I too am getting most of the guide filled in while the host channel is blank. At first, I thought the spontaneous reboots were deleting the host channel from the diagnostic screen, but the host remains blank even when the unit has not rebooted.

BTW, the clock channel does not have to be the host channel.


Yeah it's weird cause I don't remember my host channel ever being blank like this although it's been a while since I actually went into it and looked at it when everything is working fine you don't check these things, only when stuff acts up. Still I can't figure out how I can be getting a correct clock, all my guide data but my Sony is not locked onto a host channel. It's getting the downloads from somewhere just don't know where at the moment. Will let everyone know if anything changes here in So FL.

It's not just New York, I believe it's every major city, and the problem started last Friday.
No problems here in Phoenix, PBS channel 8.

So Frank 70 asked me recently whether I had been getting TVGOS listing, and I replied affirmatively...Turns out I was wrong,,,when I actually checked across the week a day or so later, I had 3 days missing (including 8). When it got up to five missing (including 6,7,8), as of yesterday, last night I did the G* test-leave on overnight, and at noon today I had MOST listing for all the days. By MOST, I mean I had listings for most channels solid; the exceptions were ABC, CW, and the PBS subchannel 2...those were completely empty for those 5 days. I restarted the G* test and left it for another 5 hours, but no improvement.

I'm just hoping the listing from my analog host return soon...

We've been out of the country all this week (since last weekend), not returning until late Monday night. I have manual "backups" in the schedule for all my recordings; have you been having the "reboot" problems in the Bay Area? Should I expect stuff to be missing, or will the manual recordings still work?

Like you, I've left the unit on KQED as the host, even though I had verified KPIX (CBS-5.1) worked.

Rick

We've been out of the country all this week (since last weekend), not returning until late Monday night... Should I expect stuff to be missing, or will the manual recordings still work?It's not obvious because my reboots have been losing the clock, and not reacquiring it on its own, at least after maybe 12 hours before I get impatient, turn it on, and use the G* test to regain a correct clock.

Let us know how things went when you get back.

Here in the New Orleans area I have one unit connected to OTA & Cable, and the other unit connected to OTA only. The OTA/Cable unit has full 8-day listings, and my OTA only unit has listings for all but about the last 6 hours on day eight. So whatever the issue is, it hasn't stuck my area yet. :o :o :o

It's not obvious because my reboots have been losing the clock, and not reacquiring it on its own, at least after maybe 12 hours before I get impatient, turn it on, and use the G* test to regain a correct clock.

Let us know how things went when you get back.

I discovered by accident that the clock can be recovered by simply turning the unit on until an incorrect time displays, and then turning the unit off. In a minute or so the correct time will display. I am getting guide via OTA with no cable card.

I'm still experiencing guide weirdness. On the morning of Friday 11/28, I noticed a bunch of channels were missing. I found them turned off, missing the channel numbers, at the bottom of the channel setup list. I manually rebuilt the channel list, then filled in the guide using the G* method during the day. The morning of Saturday 11/29, the channels were missing again. This time they were not missing their channel numbers, and some analog channels had been turned on. I have rebuilt the channel list again, and I will fill in the guide overnight this time.

Just from what I'm reading it seems that different issues are cropped up and we are lumping them all together.

In the NY area (using Cablevision) there are no missing host channels. There are no spontaneous reboots (maybe just because there is no data to cause it to occur).

It is just - and this started around May 2007- that whether its Cablevision or PBS 13, or both, they are transmitting data for less then 7 days a week. First one or two days a week was missing. Lately it may be three days spaced apart that was missing. And this week- hopefully just because of the holiday- five out of the last seven days have not had data- three days in a row.

VBI packets are fine when doing the G-test.

Am I really the only one here using these units in my area? Is anyone else getting data from PBS 13- other cable systems, OTA?

We are getting a glimpse into what may happen after the digital conversion. But if worse comes to worse, even with no listing, I figure as long as there is a grid and correct time, we can do "Unknown" programing and try to remember from the time stamp what is what.

Another reboot last night. But this one included the worst channel list reset ever. Most all the correct channels for my area were turned off. I use only cable (although the unit is set up for OTA also) and all of my cable channels in the guide were off AND set to "Air". So every channel I have to change needs to be turned on, set to cable, set to the correct channel number, and repositioned.

This SUCKS. I know the TVGOS phone number has been posted here before. Does anyone have it handy. Useless as it probably will be, I'm going to call and pitch a bitch. I'm tired of being a guinea pig for those idiots.

The macrovision # 800-368-7380....however, this number goes to a fax machine or modem.....go figure....

The macrovision # 800-368-7380....however, this number goes to a fax machine or modem.....go figure....That's the right number as was posted in this forum several times before for Gemstar, and is now posted on Macrovision's website. I'm hoping that on Monday morning, it will revert to non-modem behavior.

I have an HDD250 I bought without a Sony remote and have been using a Harmony H659 remote to access the HDD250. My problem is that I can't enter the hidden setup menus (guide -> setup -> down -> 753159852).
When I try, the unit just sets on the first choice of the setup menu.

Can anyone point me to a link that may have more information on using the Harmony with the HDD250?

I found this forum when looking for information on TVGOS and the upcoming switch to all digital.

I queried Sony technical support and got this reply (I hope it is wrong!),
I am at 1.2.09:

Thank you for contacting Sony Support.

I'm sorry, but no firmware updates are available for your Sony HD Digital Video Recorder. Since the TV Guide On Screen feature uses analog signals to acquire program information, it will no longer be available if using an antenna for over-the-air reception after the Digital Television (DTV) transition on February 17, 2009. For complete information about the DTV transition, visit URL: expunged for first time poster.

Thank you for your time.

The Sony Email Response Team
C6EH
William

It's not just New York, I believe it's every major city, and the problem started last Friday.

No problems with my TVGOS listings in the MPLS/STPaul area via CBS digital OTA.

Thank you for contacting Sony Support.

I'm sorry, but no firmware updates are available for your Sony HD Digital Video Recorder. Since the TV Guide On Screen feature uses analog signals to acquire program information, it will no longer be available if using an antenna for over-the-air reception after the Digital Television (DTV) transition on February 17, 2009. For complete information about the DTV transition, visit URL: expunged for first time poster.

Thank you for your time.

The Sony Email Response Team


Obviously the members of this forum know more about it than Sony Support since many of us are already getting our TVGOS from OTA digital hosts.

I have an HDD250 I bought without a Sony remote and have been using a Harmony H659 remote to access the HDD250. My problem is that I can't enter the hidden setup menus (guide -> setup -> down -> 753159852).
When I try, the unit just sets on the first choice of the setup menu.




If you can do all that, then you should be able to enter setup. You do know that you just need to go down and REST on "change system setting". Don't press "enter". Just put in the 753159852 code.

Unfortunately I can't receive MPT 22 OTA here in Loudoun county. I'm stuck with either WETA 26 OTA or trying CBS WUSA 9.1 digital OTA. I've had no success with either over the past week and a half. I can get clock and 8.06.44 firmware from 9.1 but no guide data so far. OTA 26 the same. Very frustrating.

I just confirmed that there seems to be similar issues as in other parts of the country with TVGOS data in the Washington, DC area from one of our PBS analog hosts (WETA in my case). I am cable-only (Comcast) with SA cable cards in both my Sony DHG and my Panasonic plasma. Comcast remaps WETA 26 to QAM channel 92 as analog via the cards, which is where I've been getting TVGOS data as my host channel on both devices.

The Sony (firmware 08.06.44) currently has listings through about 4 AM next Thursday ("No listing" beyond that on all channels), and the host channel is blank. The Panny (firmware 08.05.44; never has updated to .06 :confused:) currently has no data whatsoever and no host channel. Definitely something strange going on.

I know that our local CBS affiliate (WUSA9) is supposed to be transmitting digital TVGOS data, but I have not yet run any tests to see if Comcast is passing it through on either QAM channels 9 (SD) or more likely 212 (HD).

Can the people who are getting guide data correctly look to see if their Sony is locked onto their host channel or is the host channel line blank? I am still getting guide data, I just checked today and I'm still getting 1 full week ahead yet my host channel line is blank on the DVR. Something weird is going on.

Something weird has happened. When I turn my unit on, the guide does not appear at all. Even when I use the guide button, I can't get it to come up. The menu button works, but not the guide. I can't access the 9012 menu either. Anyone have any ideas, please?

Can the people who are getting guide data correctly look to see if their Sony is locked onto their host channel or is the host channel line blank? I am still getting guide data, I just checked today and I'm still getting 1 full week ahead yet my host channel line is blank on the DVR. Something weird is going on.Still getting it fine from PBS, OTA channel 11 analog, here in the Chicago market with my Sony. Haven't had any of the problems mentioned here lately.

They did add a few channels to the list a couple of weeks ago, but everything's still working smoothly, and I didn't need a reset.

Just from what I'm reading it seems that different issues are cropped up and we are lumping them all together.

In the NY area (using Cablevision) there are no missing host channels. There are no spontaneous reboots (maybe just because there is no data to cause it to occur).

It is just - and this started around May 2007- that whether its Cablevision or PBS 13, or both, they are transmitting data for less then 7 days a week. First one or two days a week was missing. Lately it may be three days spaced apart that was missing. And this week- hopefully just because of the holiday- five out of the last seven days have not had data- three days in a row.

VBI packets are fine when doing the G-test.

Am I really the only one here using these units in my area? Is anyone else getting data from PBS 13- other cable systems, OTA?

We are getting a glimpse into what may happen after the digital conversion. But if worse comes to worse, even with no listing, I figure as long as there is a grid and correct time, we can do "Unknown" programing and try to remember from the time stamp what is what.

Same problem in Northern New Jersey with Comcast.

Same problem in Northern New Jersey with Comcast.

Sorry for your problem but glad to hear it. At least we know it's TVGOS and/or PBS rather then our particular cable systems. If it affects across systems a fix, maybe, is more likely.

By the way, have you done a G-test on CBS digital at Comcast (we have it at Channel 2.1). I have and it fails- no VBI packets at all. Although when I tried CBS OTA it did show packets.

Detroit-Toledo-Lansing Markets.

I'm stumped, both of my OTA DHG's have partial listings for the next eight days. Some channels are complete, some are completely empty and some are partially filled in. Very strange, never seen this before.

The oddest thing is my Pioneer 5080 still has complete listings for all days into the future, no problems at all.

.....CBS had better fill in before Wed 12/3 at 10:00.....

Nice to know it's a national problem, thought it was local. Only have guide data for today, tues. and friday. Last several weeks there wasn't any down loads on the weekends but caught up during weekdays, until this week. Last week the guide was reset twice, had to redo the guide and that is a pain in the thumb. I get the guide from cable, the local ABC station, KGO-7.

No PBS host in Houston either. Looks like it has been out the last three days.

Yes, but when I enter the numbers nothing happens. I suppose that it may be a timing issue. I'll have to try different delays in the H659 setup. I know that when I press numbers to tune to channels, there is a delay before the number appears on the on-screen display. I could be that I am pressing the numbers too fast with the delay that is programmed into the H659.

I think I will try changing to the Digital CBS host tonight. Hope the box does not explode. LOL

An update: I have to press the numbers real slow, .5 seconds hold for each key and I managed to get into the menu. Now I need some help in deciphering the results displayed on the screen: I find one screen where it shows:

Section System Statistics

Model ID 0x43
ZipCode 64081
Host State 0x80
Host ID 0x0
Host Chan blank
VBIChan 0:5-1
OTALineup 0x1D
CRLineup 0x0
CBLineup 0x0
CCLineUP 0X0
Local Off -360
XDSSrchCnt 0
SU chg N/A
Last SU 11/29/08 8:55:49
LastChMap N/A
LastSrcMap N/A
HSEntries 0

The CBS network affiliate in Kansas City is KCTVDT on channel 5.1

Does the above look like I'm getting TVGOS via 5.1?

Can the people who are getting guide data correctly look to see if their Sony is locked onto their host channel or is the host channel line blank? I am still getting guide data, I just checked today and I'm still getting 1 full week ahead yet my host channel line is blank on the DVR. Something weird is going on.


Yes, my host channel on my OTA/Cable DHG shows the host channel the same as it normally does.

When I went to check that out I also checked my TVGOS firmware screen:

TVGOS Firmware Version (http://home.att.net/~pix/AVS/TVGOS_Version.JPG)

(Sorry about the poor picture quality....................)

...................................

.....CBS had better fill in before Wed 12/3 at 10:00.....

Victoria's Secret ???

An update: I have to press the numbers real slow, .5 seconds hold for each key and I managed to get into the menu. Now I need some help in deciphering the results displayed on the screen: I find one screen where it shows:

Section System Statistics

Model ID 0x43
ZipCode 64081
Host State 0x80
Host ID 0x0
Host Chan blank
VBIChan 0:5-1
OTALineup 0x1D
CRLineup 0x0
CBLineup 0x0
CCLineUP 0X0
Local Off -360
XDSSrchCnt 0
SU chg N/A
Last SU 11/29/08 8:55:49
LastChMap N/A
LastSrcMap N/A
HSEntries 0

The CBS network affiliate in Kansas City is KCTVDT on channel 5.1

Does the above look like I'm getting TVGOS via 5.1?


Ok, I can get into the 753159852 menu, Now I need help on the G*Test.

I've found posts that tell me to press <Menu> <Screen Mode> 9012 G*Test.

My question is is the <screen mode> a button on the Sony remote? When I press <Menu> I see a stacked menu on the right of the screen (top to bottom) Recent Channel, Favorite, Recording List, TV Guide, Recording History, Preferences, and Help. If I navigate to the Preferences, I see a menu that includes Screen and under that selection a menu that includes
Screen mode. However, navigating to Screen Mode and entering 9012 does not get me into the G*Test menu.

Searching around the Web led me to this TVGOS feedback page:

http://www.tvguide.com/services/CustomerForm.aspx#

This link to a page of TVGOS locations and contact numbers:

http://www.macrovision.com/company/locations.htm?link_id=topnav

And these e-mail addresses:

Ce_customer_support@tvguide.com
hostmaster@tvguideinc.com

I don't know if the addresses are valid, but I fired off e-mails to all of them.

Two TVGOS numbers in Tulsa found at other Web sites:

918-488-4000
918-488-4895

I will be calling TVGOS anywhere and everywhere. Let's get their attention.

Ok, I can get into the 753159852 menu, Now I need help on the G*Test.

I've found posts that tell me to press <Menu> <Screen Mode> 9012 G*Test.

My question is is the <screen mode> a button on the Sony remote? When I press <Menu> I see a stacked menu on the right of the screen (top to bottom) Recent Channel, Favorite, Recording List, TV Guide, Recording History, Preferences, and Help. If I navigate to the Preferences, I see a menu that includes Screen and under that selection a menu that includes
Screen mode. However, navigating to Screen Mode and entering 9012 does not get me into the G*Test menu.Yes, the <screen mode> is a button on the remote. It is the button that cycles through the various aspect ratio choices.

However another way to get into the G* test is to follow the same procedure as for getting up the diagnostic screens, but instead of entering 753159852, you enter 971397135.

We've been out of the country all this week (since last weekend), not returning until late Monday night. I have manual "backups" in the schedule for all my recordings; have you been having the "reboot" problems in the Bay Area? Should I expect stuff to be missing, or will the manual recordings still work?
Rick
I have just had missing listings, no other problems...the unit has behaved normally except for the missed listings.

Today, when I checked after leaving the unit off overnight in the usual way, I found I had gotten my 8th day, this time missing only PBS 9.2, and this REMAINED missing on the 5 days that had previously missed it, but the listings for ABC and CW for those days had arrived...

Victoria's Secret ???

Yeah......you got me. But you didn't hit that delete button either if I recall....:)

Did you get the DHG/Sharp issue worked out? I got to tell you, I've never missed a piece of euiptment as much before. TWO is not enough!!

I just confirmed that there seems to be similar issues as in other parts of the country with TVGOS data in the Washington, DC area from one of our PBS analog hosts (WETA in my case). I am cable-only (Comcast) with SA cable cards in both my Sony DHG and my Panasonic plasma. Comcast remaps WETA 26 to QAM channel 92 as analog via the cards, which is where I've been getting TVGOS data as my host channel on both devices.

The Sony (firmware 08.06.44) currently has listings through about 4 AM next Thursday ("No listing" beyond that on all channels), and the host channel is blank. The Panny (firmware 08.05.44; never has updated to .06 :confused:) currently has no data whatsoever and no host channel. Definitely something strange going on.


We're OTA in DC, but I believe we're still getting TVGOS data from 22 (MPT). We're filled in for the full 8 days EXCEPT for Thursday. That said, we did return home from the holidays to discover all our channel listings had reset to default and just spent the last 45 minutes putting everything back in order.

I took some time tonight to figure out why my Sony is not locked onto any host channel but yet I am still getting guide data. I'm OTA and Cablecard. My host has always been OTA ch 17 (a pbs station) I did a VBI test on my host channel and it's not passing any VBI packets. So I went on a search to check ALL my local pbs stations analog and digital. After checking all my pbs channels, I finally found 1 that was passing VBI packets and it's one that I never would have thought. It's a QAM ch 440 PBS. In my area Comcast uses channels in the 400 series as HD chs and 440 is a PBS HD channel. I was amazed when it started passing VBI data, however the weird thing on the VBI screen it says Flash test: Pass, VBI test: Fail, ATSC test: Pass and then in the middle it starts counting Good VBI packets well over 200 in about 2 mins. So could this QAM High Def PBS station 440 now be my new host ch? I went back and checked again and the Sony is still not locked onto a host ch and I went through the whole week and my listings are full.

I took some time tonight to figure out why my Sony is not locked onto any host channel but yet I am still getting guide data. I'm OTA and Cablecard. My host has always been OTA ch 17 (a pbs station) I did a VBI test on my host channel and it's not passing any VBI packets. So I went on a search to check ALL my local pbs stations analog and digital. After checking all my pbs channels, I finally found 1 that was passing VBI packets and it's one that I never would have thought. It's a QAM ch 440 PBS. In my area Comcast uses channels in the 400 series as HD chs and 440 is a PBS HD channel. I was amazed when it started passing VBI data, however the weird thing on the VBI screen it says Flash test: Pass, VBI test: Fail, ATSC test: Pass and then in the middle it starts counting Good VBI packets well over 200 in about 2 mins. So could this QAM High Def PBS station 440 now be my new host ch? I went back and checked again and the Sony is still not locked onto a host ch and I went through the whole week and my listings are full.It almost always says "VBI Test: Fail" the first time you run the test in a long time, but if you just press the "2" button on the remote, it will re-run the test and it will pass almost immediately.

I agree it is strange that almost NOBODY'S Host Chan is anything other than blank in the past week, yet some, like you, are getting guide data and some, like me, are just getting reboots. Perhaps it's because I need a channel lineup download, and you already have a lineup (from before last Saturday). Channel lineups only seem to download overnight, and that is when I'm getting my reboots.

In any case, I think we agree the whole TVGOS system is badly botched for most Sony DHG owners since last Saturday or before.

Something weird has happened. When I turn my unit on, the guide does not appear at all. Even when I use the guide button, I can't get it to come up. The menu button works, but not the guide. I can't access the 9012 menu either. Anyone have any ideas, please?

My problem was very similar. Posting 12993 got me going again - a soft reset. But don't expect everything to be fine afterward, or if it is, you're a lucky one.

The morning of Saturday 11/29, the channels were missing again. This time they were not missing their channel numbers, and some analog channels had been turned on. I have rebuilt the channel list again, and I will fill in the guide overnight this time.

Update: I left the Sony off most of the morning and afternoon of 11/29, so I got one of the mid-day updates. I found that my host channel has been reset to analog channel 11, PBS in Chicago. None of the channels I had rebuilt in the list had been turned off. Channel 26.1, which had been listed as WCIU-DT when I finished my rebuild in the morning, has been re-labeled to THEU. I had a few extra analog channels turned on in the list, and I turned them off.

I'm going to leave the host as-is, and see if the situation stabilizes. Will update again tomorrow.

Thanks. I already figured that out, and it worked. I was in the same mess as everyone else before.....and obviously still am - so nothing lost, nothing gained. I keep checking here to see if anyone has had any relief. I don't have any channels in my guide and obviously no data, no host channel and no station to even get the data from. I've tried all PBS stations and CBS stations here in Orlando and can't find one passing good VBI packets.

It almost always says "VBI Test: Fail" the first time you run the test in a long time, but if you just press the "2" button on the remote, it will re-run the test and it will pass almost immediately.

I just tried doing another VBI test on my HD PBS ch 440 and it is now showing Pass on all and it's passing VBI data packets like crazy, so you are right. That still leaves me foggy because I didn't think the HDD500 could accept VBI packets from a Digital Ch let alone a HD Digital Ch. So for me at least it appears Comcast or TV guide changed from Ch 17 to Ch 440, and stranger that my Ch 17 was an analog Ch and now I'm getting VBI packets from a HD Ch. Since my Ch 440 is a HD digital Ch it has to be getting it from my Cablecard not from my OTA antena, right? If so I'm still scared to disconnect my OTA antenna for fear of losing my listings.

I dont' know if anyone posts here from the So FL area but hope this info helps if your using the HDD too.

Frank, thanks for the info I didn't know pressing 2 will rerun the test, that is good info.

Given the wide variety of symptoms reported over the last week or two, and the variation by locality, ranging from perfectly fine to minor glitches to major trainwreck, I have a new theory on what's causing the problem:

As a career-long software engineer, such behavior is a classic symptom of outgrowing available memory, known affectionately as trying to stuff 10 pounds of s**t in a 5 pound sack. We know the TVGOS folks are struggling to add a new listings version to support the DTVPal for the transition. We also know that in many markets the number of channels is increasing due to both digital subchannels (for OTA) and the cable/satellite/FIOS bloat resulting from competition. Therefore the size and complexity of the grids is ever growing and the Sony's may not have sufficient memory to deal with all of this.

Macrovision may be inadvertently unaware of the memory limitations of the Sony DHG series, since it's discontinued and not in the mainstream; or they may well know of the limitations but are forging ahead anyway on Sony's assurance that this series is not capable of living beyond 2/17/2009 anyway. Of course, we know differently and it now becomes our responsibility to educate them. So I urge everyone with problems to fire an email to TV Guide Customer Care (tvgos@mailnj.custhelp.com and/or Ce_customer_support@tvguide.com) and ask them to "care". Explain what unit you have, where you are located, the nature of the problems you're seeing, and when the trouble began. You can also try the phone number after the holiday weekend (as will I), but I don't hold out much hope for that.

Sunday morning 9AM

ok, as posted above I attempted to change my unit from analogue download (PBS 8-0 in Houston) to digital download (CBS 11-1).

I did this because the last three days had been "blank host".

New surprise this morning - the unit is now receiving analogue downloads from FOX 26-0 - days 1,2, and 8 are filled in and accurate. I think only days 6 and 7 are missing at this point.

So I assume it will continue to receive downloads via FOX 26-0 until we have another Solar Flair?

BTW neither 8-0 nor 26-0 have been turned on in my tuner, they are still killed; because we do not use them.

That's weird because I thought that ch had to be turned on in order for it to receive the VBI packets. If your 26-0 is turned off how could you be getting listings? Have you done a host check to see what Ch# is showing as your host?

It almost always says "VBI Test: Fail" the first time you run the test in a long time, but if you just press the "2" button on the remote, it will re-run the test and it will pass almost immediately.

I agree it is strange that almost NOBODY'S Host Chan is anything other than blank in the past week, yet some, like you, are getting guide data and some, like me, are just getting reboots. Perhaps it's because I need a channel lineup download, and you already have a lineup (from before last Saturday). Channel lineups only seem to download overnight, and that is when I'm getting my reboots.

In any case, I think we agree the whole TVGOS system is badly botched for most Sony DHG owners since last Saturday or before.

:confused:If the VBI test isn't incrementing properly, do I need to power off before I go back, re-run the test and THEN press 2? I was under the impression that I needed to cancel (by turning the unit off) if nothing was happening after 20 seconds. Thanks.

Given the wide variety of symptoms reported over the last week or two, and the variation by locality, ranging from perfectly fine to minor glitches to major trainwreck, I have a new theory on what's causing the problem:

As a career-long software engineer, such behavior is a classic symptom of outgrowing available memory, known affectionately as trying to stuff 10 pounds of s**t in a 5 pound sack. We know the TVGOS folks are struggling to add a new listings version to support the DTVPal for the transition. We also know that in many markets the number of channels is increasing due to both digital subchannels (for OTA) and the cable/satellite/FIOS bloat resulting from competition. Therefore the size and complexity of the grids is ever growing and the Sony's may not have sufficient memory to deal with all of this.

Macrovision may be inadvertently unaware of the memory limitations of the Sony DHG series, since it's discontinued and not in the mainstream; or they may well know of the limitations but are forging ahead anyway on Sony's assurance that this series is not capable of living beyond 2/17/2009 anyway. Of course, we know differently and it now becomes our responsibility to educate them. So I urge everyone with problems to fire an email to TV Guide Customer Care (tvgos@mailnj.custhelp.com and/or Ce_customer_support@tvguide.com) and ask them to "care". Explain what unit you have, where you are located, the nature of the problems you're seeing, and when the trouble began. You can also try the phone number after the holiday weekend (as will I), but I don't hold out much hope for that.

A good theory IMO.

My newer Pioneer 5080 TVGOS seems to have had no problems over the last couple of weeks. Full guide with full listings...maybe it has a larger memory and capable of handling these changes while the DHG's aren't?

From my experience here, I can't see how the problem is entirely on the TVGOS end, something has to be in conflict with the DHG's. Otherwise why the perfect guide data on my Plasma?

I agree, we should flood TVGOS AND Sony with emails and calls on Monday morning....Sony may think they can write these boxes off, but if they do, they (or my retailer...somebody) will be writing me a check at the same time!

I have a direct number into second teir Sony support....I'll call on Monday and see what Sony has to say about all this. This guy owns a few DHG's and has lived with them just like us.....For all I know, he is on this thread!?!

No problems with listings here in North Central CT. Still getting listings from PBS Analog Cable via Comcast (Ch 24, WEDH).

:confused:If the VBI test isn't incrementing properly, do I need to power off before I go back, re-run the test and THEN press 2? I was under the impression that I needed to cancel (by turning the unit off) if nothing was happening after 20 seconds. Thanks.No, if it says "Fail" and you press 2 and it comes up "Fail" again, you're pretty much out of luck as far as that channel goes. It doesn't hurt to turn it off and re-run the test, but after 2 consecutive failures, it's not likely to pass.

No problems with listings here in North Central CT. Still getting listings from PBS Analog Cable via Comcast (Ch 24, WEDH).And that reinforces my out-of-memory memory theory. North Central CT is a far cry from Philadelphia, where we get listings for NJ, NYC, Lehigh Valley, Philly, Reading, Harrisburg, Baltimore. Back when I had listings, I believe there were about 500-600 channels represented (many duplicates and cable networks too; I can only imagine the listings if I had selected cable.) Other hot-spots are Chicago and NYC. I suppose Sony owners in Fargo ND, Telluride CO, or Juneau AK (Sarah, you listening?) have few problems.

Received data last night. Didn't do anything but turned off the units overnight.

The Host channel on two units side by side is the analog scrolling TV listing guide (Up to recently one was on this channel and one was on the PBS channel. Don't know when the PBS host changed to the scroll). I am holding on to a hope that Cablevision will retain this channel post conversion and if they don't transmit on the CBS digital they will transmit on this one.

Only quirk is that although data is there, for this morning at least, only one was showing ads.

Still need to check one at another location where only PBS is currentely available to that unit because the scroll channel had changed from channel 18 to 14, and when last scanned 14 was not found. May need to rescan)

I have no reason to believe anything has changed for us and we will still have several days a week every week without a data download. But if those days with data are spaced out right, they'll do under the circumstances.

And that reinforces my out-of-memory memory theory. North Central CT is a far cry from Philadelphia, where we get listings for NJ, NYC, Lehigh Valley, Philly, Reading, Harrisburg, Baltimore. Back when I had listings, I believe there were about 500-600 channels represented (many duplicates and cable networks too; I can only imagine the listings if I had selected cable.) Other hot-spots are Chicago and NYC. I suppose Sony owners in Fargo ND, Telluride CO, or Juneau AK (Sarah, you listening?) have few problems.

Here in CT I have OTA and Cable and I have 529 potential channels. Beyond the cable selections, I get OTA channels from Boston, NYC, LI, RI and NJ (most of which I'd need a 300 foot tower to receive...)

This puzzles me. No matter which channel the 250 is tuned to when I shut it down at night it always powers up the next day on CBS OTA 8.1.
The guide diagnostic screen shows Host ch 1:0-8 and VBI ch 0:8-1.

Does the recorder tune to the host overnight to dowload guide data and wake up on that channel ?
But OTA 8.1 is CBS DTV (VHF 7) and it is known that CBS in San Diego does not transmit digital TVGOS data.
Explanation please.

Notes:
250 connected to Rooftop R/S UHF ant and TWC analog cable, no cable card
Elevation 540 ft ASL and LOS to every DTV transmitter in San Diego including XETV in Mexico.
250 has run reliably for abt 2.5 years except for 1 lockup due to corrupted guide data .. repaired via instructions found on spiff's forum.
The 250 was purchased open box from one-call. The open box was due to the unot having been refurbished by Sony and returned with latest firmware
Unit is connected to a UPS.
Unit feeds HDMI to Sony 820 AVR and then HDMI to a Vizio 52 inch LCD
For all local channels the TVGOS shows 4 entries OTA analog, OTA DTV, TWC analog and TWC digital. An embarrassment of riches for finding host channels to be sure.

BTW I have been subscribed to this thread almost from it's inception and still read the posts most every day. Just cannot recall if this question has been discussed.

Given the wide variety of symptoms reported over the last week or two, and the variation by locality, ranging from perfectly fine to minor glitches to major trainwreck, I have a new theory on what's causing the problem:

As a career-long software engineer, such behavior is a classic symptom of outgrowing available memory, known affectionately as trying to stuff 10 pounds of s**t in a 5 pound sack. We know the TVGOS folks are struggling to add a new listings version to support the DTVPal for the transition. We also know that in many markets the number of channels is increasing due to both digital subchannels (for OTA) and the cable/satellite/FIOS bloat resulting from competition. Therefore the size and complexity of the grids is ever growing and the Sony's may not have sufficient memory to deal with all of this.

That may be true, but my recent experience yesterday 11/29 in the SF bay area showed no listings past sometime today (11/30). My host and VBI is channel 9 PBS. I have the latest TVGOS version and the VBI test showed packets updating verrry slowly. I turned to the digital CBS 5.1 and went into the test screen which passed, left the recorder on and turned off the TV. Within 6 hours the entire guide was filled. So last night I turned to the analog host and turned off the recorder. This morning day 8 showed zero listings. So I'm wondering if this is a pre-cutoff test to see which versions of hradware/TVGOS they have out there will pickup the digital host automatically. (although you would think they have the equipment and test setups to determine that in house).

I just confirmed that there seems to be similar issues as in other parts of the country with TVGOS data in the Washington, DC area from one of our PBS analog hosts (WETA in my case). I am cable-only (Comcast) with SA cable cards in both my Sony DHG and my Panasonic plasma. Comcast remaps WETA 26 to QAM channel 92 as analog via the cards, which is where I've been getting TVGOS data as my host channel on both devices.

The Sony (firmware 08.06.44) currently has listings through about 4 AM next Thursday ("No listing" beyond that on all channels), and the host channel is blank. The Panny (firmware 08.05.44; never has updated to .06 :confused:) currently has no data whatsoever and no host channel. Definitely something strange going on.

I know that our local CBS affiliate (WUSA9) is supposed to be transmitting digital TVGOS data, but I have not yet run any tests to see if Comcast is passing it through on either QAM channels 9 (SD) or more likely 212 (HD).

In Fairfax with cable but no cablecards. I can confirm that WETA 26 has resumed passing guide data. It passes the G test. My host channel is no longer blank. It's back to 26, and have listings for next Thursday & Sunday, although because of the problems of the past few days, still without listings for Friday and Saturday. Must have been a temporary PBS problem. Ads are also back.

After more or less leaving the Sony alone for a couple of days, with exception to turning it on once in a while to check if the listings were back, as of late this morning, everything is back to "normal." I have at least five days of listings for DE/Philly OTA channels, the reboots appear to have stopped and the clock is stable. If I have a chance, I'll take a look later at where the firmware and host channel have settled.
Is there a guide for more efficient moving in the channel editor? I'm afraid I'm going to wear out the roller selector.

This morning I finally had some listings after about two weeks of no success. However host channel is blank so I don't know if its analog WETA pbs 26 or WUSA-HD 9.1 digital. The channel lineup however is unfamiliar (but local) and for my zip usually I'm prompted to choose between two providers (FIOS and Comcast.) So some progress.

Help, my TVGOS Stopped working. I do not have a DVR just a Sony TV (KDL-40W4100). I scanned over 400 pages here looking for solutions as SONY, Gemstar, Mediacom, nor GA PBS were of help even though Gemstar tech tried. How can I duplicate the “G” test? (Ref links 12187 and 12445) Something on my remote must correspond to menu button, and screen mode. On the remote, 9012 gets me a “search for signal” response. When I punch the guide button I can select in the set up screen, Diagnostic screens, 5, of them by scrolling left or right. The only item that seems germane is “host chan” NONE. I did try code 963214785 and got many diagnostic type screens using left, right, up, and down arrows on remote wheel. Would appreciate any suggestions. :confused: Thanks Ross Moody
I'm in Seattle and I have the same model Sony TV. My guide has stopped working also. It was getting the guide from KIRO 7 digital until a few days ago. I also have the Sony 250HDD recorder which gets its guide from KCTS 9 analog and it has stopped receiving the guide. I use a rooftop antenna for both -no cable. I'd say it's out of our hands for now. I'm hoping they will both start working again in a few days.

I wish I was even close to "normal". I haven't had a clock or even channel listings in my guide for several days. I've given up. If I perform the "G" test on one more channel, I'm going to scream. Hopefully this unit hasn't become a doorstop for me already.

And that reinforces my out-of-memory memory theory..................................

Frank -

I'm curious about just how many channels your TVGOS gives you to choose from (in the setup, where you can turn channels on/off)?

I have 649 channels on one DHG, and 477 on the other. I know that many people seem to have many more channels than that. But how many more?

With all these new developments over the past week or two, does anyone know whathappened to whathappend? :D

And that reinforces my out-of-memory memory theory. North Central CT is a far cry from Philadelphia, where we get listings for NJ, NYC, Lehigh Valley, Philly, Reading, Harrisburg, Baltimore. Back when I had listings, I believe there were about 500-600 channels represented (many duplicates and cable networks too; I can only imagine the listings if I had selected cable.) Other hot-spots are Chicago and NYC. I suppose Sony owners in Fargo ND, Telluride CO, or Juneau AK (Sarah, you listening?) have few problems.

I'm sorry to un-reinforce your theory, but I'm in LA with 567 potential channels. I've never had a single problem with my listings (I always have 8 days).

I did notice yesterday that the host channel had reverted to analog (PBS 28) from digital (CBS 2-1). I went through the procedure to force digital and today it's back on digital with all listings.

Is anyone else suprised that our machines are locking onto digital channels as the host? I am because I remember when I first joined here and everyone said our machine would never pick up any guide data from a digital ch. I checked again today and my host ch is still blank but I have a full week of data and I'm passing VBI data from a digital high def PBS station. This would mean to me that our machines will work after Feb 09

This morning I finally had some listings after about two weeks of no success. However host channel is blank so I don't know if its analog WETA pbs 26 or WUSA-HD 9.1 digital. The channel lineup however is unfamiliar (but local) and for my zip usually I'm prompted to choose between two providers (FIOS and Comcast.) So some progress.

Last night I ran the G* test on my Sony DHG tuned to Comcast QAM channel 212 (WUSA-HD) and saw VBI packets coming in within a few seconds. I then did the full Frank70 procedure to force a digital host. This morning I had a full 8 days of listings, but as many others have reported, the host channel is blank. (Another oddity: the size of the info box was reset to "any"; I had it set to "small".) Now I'll wait to see if 212 sticks as my host channel or if it reverts back to the WETA analog QAM channel (92).

I did not run the G* test on my 3-year old Panasonic TV, but only tried to force the VBI host. No change as of this morning - no TVGOS data at all. But now that I know of the 971... code to run the test from the TVGOS Setup screen, I'll try that next to see if the TV is getting packets from QAM 212.

Chicago report: All the same except one change for the worse. My clock is off after the last spontaneous reboot. That was never a problem, but now there is no time signal (or VBI packets of any kind) coming from Comcast channel 94. That is the analog PBS that Comcast maintains for TVGOS data transmission, and what was always my clock set channel as indicated in the diagnostic screens --- even while my host was CBS-HD.

So --- still incomplete listings and now no clock. Worse and worse...

I'm sorry to un-reinforce your theory, but I'm in LA with 567 potential channels. I've never had a single problem with my listings (I always have 8 days).

I did notice yesterday that the host channel had reverted to analog (PBS 28) from digital (CBS 2-1). I went through the procedure to force digital and today it's back on digital with all listings.

I am also in LA and my OTA-only HDD500 is using 0:0-11 (Analog FOX 11) for its host channel. It is working fine with 8 days of listings and a stable clock. I know the CBS digital station (2.1) also has the data, but I have not tried to force it on my machine yet.

Maybe the problem many are having is not with the TVGOS head end or data stream origination, but with the individual cities host channels. I know that there is a lot of transmission testing going on by the broadcast engineers during the wee hours to get ready for the digital transition in February (and sometimes that testing can be right during our data download time). Many stations will be changing RF channel frequencies and need to test their new transmitters and antennas as their installations are completed. Add to that the chaos this causes in the equipment racks at the transmitter and studio sites, and, well... you get the idea. This could explain why some areas are having problems while others are not.

So there is my two cents worth...

Chicago report: All the same except one change for the worse. My clock is off after the last spontaneous reboot. That was never a problem, but now there is no time signal (or VBI packets of any kind) coming from Comcast channel 94. That is the analog PBS that Comcast maintains for TVGOS data transmission, and what was always my clock set channel as indicated in the diagnostic screens --- even while my host was CBS-HD.

So --- still incomplete listings and now no clock. Worse and worse...


If I were you...I would start checking all your PBS stations other than 94 too see if you get VBI packets. This is what I did, it takes awhile (if your using cable and OTA) but it's the only way to know for certain if the VBI packets are now coming in on a diff ch. For me, I have 5 or 6 PBS stations ranging from analog to digital to HD digital, it took me awhile but I finally found 1 that was passing VBI and it was a HD PBS ch.

I'm wondering if TV Guide is testing Qam digital ch to see if the guide is passing VBI data and this is why we are having all these problems all of a sudden in preparation of Feb

Sunday morning 9AM

ok, as posted above I attempted to change my unit from analogue download (PBS 8-0 in Houston) to digital download (CBS 11-1).

I did this because the last three days had been "blank host".

New surprise this morning - the unit is now receiving analogue downloads from FOX 26-0 - days 1,2, and 8 are filled in and accurate. I think only days 6 and 7 are missing at this point.

So I assume it will continue to receive downloads via FOX 26-0 until we have another Solar Flair?

BTW neither 8-0 nor 26-0 have been turned on in my tuner, they are still killed; because we do not use them.

Basically, it appears that for Houston both PBS analogue and CBS digital were not sending out the downloads; but the local FOX analogue was and/or still is. So when I attempted to force it to CBS digital last night and nothing was there, it locked onto the FOX analogue (since PBS analogue is still not there). So that works for me - all is good, and no worries.

Whether or not this holds till next Feb 2009, I have no idea. All channels will have to be rescanned anyway since we have numerous RF re-assignments in our area.

In reading through all most recent post(s), it appears that most areas were (are) having troubles with PBS and CBS downloads; but not FOX?

I am also in LA and my OTA-only HDD500 is using 0:0-11 (Analog FOX 11) for its host channel. It is working fine with 8 days of listings and a stable clock. I know the CBS digital station (2.1) also has the data, but I have not tried to force it on my machine yet.

Maybe the problem many are having is not with the TVGOS head end or data stream origination, but with the individual cities host channels. I know that there is a lot of transmission testing going on by the broadcast engineers during the wee hours to get ready for the digital transition in February (and sometimes that testing can be right during our data download time). Many stations will be changing RF channel frequencies and need to test their new transmitters and antennas as their installations are completed. Add to that the chaos this causes in the equipment racks at the transmitter and studio sites, and, well... you get the idea. This could explain why some areas are having problems while others are not.

So there is my two cents worth...

I agree completely and my thinking has been along the same lines. Also there may a lot of TVGOS setup stuff going on, especially with the non-CBS owned stations that are probably just getting set up now.

I've also seen 11 as a host channel in the past although this time my unit reverted to 28.

Update: I left the Sony off most of the morning and afternoon of 11/29, so I got one of the mid-day updates. I found that my host channel has been reset to analog channel 11, PBS in Chicago. None of the channels I had rebuilt in the list had been turned off. Channel 26.1, which had been listed as WCIU-DT when I finished my rebuild in the morning, has been re-labeled to THEU. I had a few extra analog channels turned on in the list, and I turned them off.

I'm going to leave the host as-is, and see if the situation stabilizes. Will update again tomorrow.

Another Chicago update: Late the night of 11/29 I turned the unit on to see if any changes had been made, and it spontaneously rebooted. I cursed my bad luck, but the Welcome display lasted only for a couple of minutes and then I had an accurate clock. This morning I checked and all channels were in place, no new ones had been added, but the guide was missing next Sunday 12/7. Will check Monday morning to see if the guide fills in or not.

such behavior is a classic symptom of outgrowing available memory

I am also in the Philadelphia area and my 250, which had up until now been reliable, is now without listings. In regards to the memory theory, I also just purchased a Sony XBR6 which had been working and now it too is without listings. I could understand the older 250 not having sufficient memory, but the XBR6 was just released to the market and therefore should have been manufactured with current memory requirements in mind.
Just my two cents...

This morning I finally had some listings after about two weeks of no success. However host channel is blank so I don't know if its analog WETA pbs 26 or WUSA-HD 9.1 digital. The channel lineup however is unfamiliar (but local) and for my zip usually I'm prompted to choose between two providers (FIOS and Comcast.) So some progress.

Based on hednic getting TVGOS from OTA 26 analog PBS I would have thought that's where I'm getting it. However I checked the host channel this morning and it was no longer blank. It was 0:34-0. Which according to the 'force digital host' procedure is OTA digital for cablecard users (which is me.) But...bizarrely I don't even have 34 enabled in my channel list and I know of no station in the DC area broadcasting digital on it?

edit: Doing some research in Local DC/Balt forum WUSA-DT 9.1 is broadcasting on UHF 34 so that is where it comes from. So another success getting listings from WUSA-DT in the DC metro area. The only problem right now is that those listings don't seem to reflect my zip or offer my FIOS lineup (20152.)

Thanks everyone,
I was able to follow the directions posted here and get my unit to use Digital CBS 2.1 as it's host. Took a couple of days. I was originally using analog fox 11, then after my first attempt it reset to analog PBS 28. After clearing the host again it locked on to Digital CBS 2.1.

Couple of points:

I had both analog 11 and 28 turned off on the unit while they being used as my host channels. I had no problem getting the guide on either.

I was able to get my guide data to fill in with the unit shut off between 9:00 am and 12:30 pm. This does not seem to correspond to the documented download times?

Anyways, I love this thing. This thread is very helpful to me.

Thanks again!

I hope that this makes sense to someone. My set-up is 2 side-by-side HDD500s. OTA is a digital antenna that precludes receiving anaolg PBS (channel 13) OTA. I had been using cable channel 23 (same PBS station) via cable.
Thanksgiving day all channels had "no listing" starting at 4:00 AM.
I disconnected the cable from both (RF not cable card) on Wednesday.
I tried to force channel 2.1 (OTA CBS) with no success. VBI tests okay, software upgrade okay, got new ads, but the guide screens were "no data for this screen."
Saturday I hooked the cable back to one HDD500 and successfully forced channel 63 (TV Guide channel) as my host. Sunday I had (mostly) a complete channle listing for 1 day. After a couple hours with channel edit I was back where I was on Wednesday. Today I have 2 days of listings.
Sunday I did the same to the other machine, but this morning I find that my host is back to its original 23 (1:23). I have 1 day of listings.
Since I have listings with both my original host 1:23 as well as 1:63, my guess is that either my cable company was screwing around (unlikely since problems were occurring in other cities) or TVGOS was doing something.
I did notice that the Tuesday before Thanksgiving I started to have lockup problems.
I don't know why TVGOS doesn't post to let people know. They might be trying to help us keep on going after the digital transition. Though this is unlikely, anything is possible.
Is it ironic, or pathetic, that we are depending on Macrovision (a company dedicated to limiting recording) to help us keep recording.

Did the 9632... VBI search on WCBS digital on Comcast in Northern New Jersey and now have complete listings in my guide. The data screen shows digital CBS as my VBI channel and WNET as my host channel.
I checked the guide info on my Pioneer tv and it shows WNET as both host and VBI channel, and doesn't have listings for Friday,Saturday and next Monday. Using the CBS digital channel as VBI has solved problems with listings on my HDD 500 unit.

This puzzles me. No matter which channel the 250 is tuned to when I shut it down at night it always powers up the next day on CBS OTA 8.1.
The guide diagnostic screen shows Host ch 1:0-8 and VBI ch 0:8-1.

Does the recorder tune to the host overnight to dowload guide data and wake up on that channel ?
But OTA 8.1 is CBS DTV (VHF 7) and it is known that CBS in San Diego does not transmit digital TVGOS data.
Explanation please.

I'm also in San Diego, and have 3 of the Sony DHG-HDD recorders (OTA only). They will power up on the last channel they were tuned to, either when you last had it on, or when it performed a timer recording. I have never seen mine power up on a channel due to a TVGOS download. Also note, that XETV-DT is broadcasting digital TVGOS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15064190&highlight=xetv#post15064190). I also don't watch or record KFMB-TV or KFMB-DT, only KCBS-DT. Too much cochannel interference (w/ KABC-TV) on channel 7.

Just from what I'm reading it seems that different issues are cropped up and we are lumping them all together.

In the NY area (using Cablevision) there are no missing host channels. There are no spontaneous reboots (maybe just because there is no data to cause it to occur).

It is just - and this started around May 2007- that whether its Cablevision or PBS 13, or both, they are transmitting data for less then 7 days a week. First one or two days a week was missing. Lately it may be three days spaced apart that was missing. And this week- hopefully just because of the holiday- five out of the last seven days have not had data- three days in a row.

VBI packets are fine when doing the G-test.

Am I really the only one here using these units in my area? Is anyone else getting data from PBS 13- other cable systems, OTA?

We are getting a glimpse into what may happen after the digital conversion. But if worse comes to worse, even with no listing, I figure as long as there is a grid and correct time, we can do "Unknown" programing and try to remember from the time stamp what is what.


I am in LI OTA, and I have been experiencing outage also.

Last night I ran the G* test on my Sony DHG tuned to Comcast QAM channel 212 (WUSA-HD) and saw VBI packets coming in within a few seconds. I then did the full Frank70 procedure to force a digital host. This morning I had a full 8 days of listings, but as many others have reported, the host channel is blank. (Another oddity: the size of the info box was reset to "any"; I had it set to "small".) Now I'll wait to see if 212 sticks as my host channel or if it reverts back to the WETA analog QAM channel (92).

By Monday morning my DHG had reverted to getting TVGOS data (full 8 days) from WETA analog. However, I can still see good VBI packets from WUSA-HD. I guess for the time being it prefers the analog data.

The TV guide equipment installed at WMFE, channel 24 Orlando Florida stopped working about two weeks ago. Replacement equipment has been installed but it has failed to respond to modem delivered commands, preventing the loading of schedule data. Currently, the phone line is suspected and we are awaiting evaluation of the line to determine if that is where the problem exists.

I am sorry for the problems caused by this and am working with the Guide people to resolve it.

Mike Simmons
Director of Engineering and Technology
WMFE
Orlando, Fl

Thanks for the info, Mike. Now if it were just that simple an explanation for the other cities that are failing.

I called Macrovision today and they said the phone number posted on their web site had some numbers reversed, and that the correct number was:

800-386-7380

That's the good news. The bad news is that nobody answers, ever. And both my emails to them drew zero response in spite of an automated promise of a response within 24 hours. Par for the course, I guess.

My guide here in the Dallas area ****-the-bed almost two weeks ago, but I have been busy at work and haven't had time to use my HDD500 in the HT Room. I wish I had viewed this thread prior to whacking the TVGOS settings on Thursday because all it did was screw-up my channel lineup. Anyway, the guide started populating the listings sometime Saturday or Sunday.

Well I also noticed that I had the "No Listing" issue on my 250 over the weekend and decided to play around just for a little bit until I can call my local PBS station in the Toledo, OH market. And come to find out they had to reboot there system that handle the VBI data now this was at 10 Am this morning and by 1 PM my clock is now correct and I am recieving data for the next day starting at 4 Am in the morning. I don't know if this a fluke or not but at least i'm getting my listings back.

Thanks for the info, Mike. Now if it were just that simple an explanation for the other cities that are failing.

Now if I could only get my local CBS station (WKMG) to understand my digital feed question and give me a decent answer, like Mike.....I'll be good to go here. He told me he would post a response on this forum - what a guy !!

Chicago update: After more of the same junk last night --- no listings and a reboot --- full new listings have appeared this evening.

But no host channel is listed. And running the G*Test shows no VBI packets received on: Comcast CBS-HD 189, Comcast analog PBS 94, OTA PBS analog 11, OTA CBS analog 2. (I cannot receive digital OTA channels on the Sony here.)

The only channel receiving packets is OTA FOX analog 32, which I don't think carries our version of TVGOS.

The pattern has been that overnight downloads are almost useless, but there is better luck during the day. Weekends are the worst, day or night. Maybe there is hope, because these are the most complete listings I've had in over a week and the time was not lost since this morning.

I wish I knew which channel the new listings came from. Apparently, I am receiving them magically through the ether. I may wear an aluminum foil hat in bed tonight. Hey, it might help.

Can someone explain what this means to me? I use a SA cablecard from Brighthouse in my 250.....this is the latest response from my local CBS station.

"You will not be able to get this over brighthouse as it is not carried in the vertical interval as analog set do but rather a separate data feed that Brighthouse does not carry."

Someone help me understand this:

In the San Francisco Bay Area my Channel Host shows 0:29-0 which is the frequency assignment for CBS 5.1, does that mean that I am now receiving my TVGOS from digital 5.1?

Also, my VBI Channel shows ffffffff. What does this mean?

Someone help me understand this:

In the San Francisco Bay Area my Channel Host shows 0:29-0 which is the frequency assignment for CBS 5.1, does that mean that I am now receiving my TVGOS from digital 5.1?

Also, my VBI Channel shows ffffffff. What does this mean?
You got me...I haven't checked until the last couple of days, because my listings have settled down, but last week my host channel was still 9!

Spontaneous rebooting is the order of the morning in Philadelphia, both on my analog and digital host. I've got KYW-DT and WHYY engineering on the case. In the meantime, TVGOS still doesn't answer the phone or emails. I haven't called Sony because I expect that to be an exercise in futility.

Is there a guide for more efficient moving in the channel editor? I'm afraid I'm going to wear out the roller selector.

If you move all the way to the left (highlight the channel position #) and hit menu you can manually enter what position you want that channel to use. Beats the heck out of scrolling. Even if you don't get it exact, if you enter a close number it means less scrolling once moved.

If you move all the way to the left (highlight the channel position #) and hit menu you can manually enter what position you want that channel to use. Beats the heck out of scrolling. Even if you don't get it exact, if you enter a close number it means less scrolling once moved.

You can also use the Channel ^v buttons to move up and down in page increments rather than the up/down on the menu wheel, or the scroll bar, to move a line at a time.

10-day Unattended Bay Area reults:

Well, we got back from our trip to Italy, late last night, with some unusual results on the recordings on my 500. First, though, I must mention that we also had a "power failure" on the entire A/V system, caused by one of the cats getting behind it, and apparently switching off the plug strip! (cat-sitter moved the items I strategically place to prevent this from happening).

My results:
I had ZERO recordings for 11/24 and 11/25 (darn - I wanted to see the NCIS "continued" episode - guess I'll have to watch from web). I had both named and manual backup times in the schedule list for these. The schedule list is intact today. I presume the manual misses were caused by the reboots and having the clock/calendar messed up those days.

I had two manual recordings for Thurs 11/27

I have listings for today, none for tomorrow (only plugged back in this morning), some listings for Thurs, full listings for Friday, and none for the remaining days. I assume the cat turned the power off late Thursday night. I'll force the digital host later today, to restore the full week's listings.

The strangest thing, though, is my Panasonic DVD recorder (non TVGOS) which was also set to record last Monday and Tuesday, didn't. It still has the recording schedules set, but the DVD in it was blank after power was restored.


EDIT: Update - the forced digital host worked like a charm; full 8 day grid is back.

If you move all the way to the left (highlight the channel position #) and hit menu you can manually enter what position you want that channel to use.

You don't need to press [menu]. Starting from the selected channel, you can just press [left], #, [enter], [enter]. Just gotta be careful because if you get going fast, you can accidently change the "tune channel" because if you don't press [left] and just press #,[enter],[enter] the # will be the new "tune channel".

The fastest way I know to shut off a channel is [select],[left],[select],[select].

I'm also in San Diego, and have 3 of the Sony DHG-HDD recorders (OTA only). They will power up on the last channel they were tuned to, either when you last had it on, or when it performed a timer recording. I have never seen mine power up on a channel due to a TVGOS download. Also note, that XETV-DT is broadcasting digital TVGOS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15064190&highlight=xetv#post15064190). I also don't watch or record KFMB-TV or KFMB-DT, only KCBS-DT. Too much cochannel interference (w/ KABC-TV) on channel 7.

Believe you are right, Thinking back I do record from KFMB-DT frequently late at night 'CSI programs' and watch the next day. So made a test without recording and left the Sony on cable 56 (History) and the recorder woke up on that channel..

Fortunately my location on Soledad Rd 1 mile south of Mt Soledad shields me from all the LA transmitters eliminating any interference from those sources. It also means reception from those sources is impossible for me.
When KFMB changes to VHF 8 next Feb your co-channel problem should be gone.

XETV ,s Chief Engineer has posted on hdtv.forsandiego.com that XETV analog on VHF6 will also continue to transmit TVGOS data. So there is the option of mounting my VHF ant back on the roof to receive VHF 6.

And if all else fails the Echostar DTVpal DVR will join my setup to record all the local OTA DT channels.

And I will use 2 other HDD equipped recorders, an old Panasonic and a Sony HX 990 to record analog cable. That is untill TWC screws that up by going SDV on the analog channels I record.

I spoke with George from the KYW engineering shop today regarding Sony reboots, and he said they had discovered a problem with the network feed (CBS) that had been causing other folks' equipment to misbehave. Apparently unintended copy-guard related data was being send in the MPEG data stream and causing the problems. There is some chance that is what is causing the Sony reboots and other problems, and they're working to correct it. This really doesn't explain why my Sony also reboots after about an hour if I run the G* test on our local PBS station, WHYY, since no digital data stream is involved (at least on my end); I suppose it's possible that said copy-guard data could be encoded into the VBI of an analog signal, but what are the chances that two unrelated stations/networks would accidentally transmit the same erroneous kind of signal? Pretty slim.

I look to this forum whenever my DHG-HDD250 stops behaving and I want to thank all of you guys for providing info here that FAR surpasses anything the manufacturers etc… can/WILL provide. So… I though I would share my experience last week. Maybe someone can use the info.

My Sony has always worked pretty well on standard Comcast cable + OTA here in Tucson. There are no digital channels transmitting TVGOS here yet. My only hassles have been when Comcast shuffles the clear QAM channels or stops transmitting TVGOS on PBS 6 so I have to get it OTA from PBS 27.

I decided to switch to Comcast’s “digital starter” package with a cablecard. The card installation went well. Comcast wouldn’t let me self-install so basically, I had to pay Comcast 30some bucks for a technician watch me do it and then call in the host/data numbers . The correct channel list (including HDs) with station names showed up immediately. The TVGOS lineup showed “no data” which was no surprise. Comcast 6 (previous analog host which is now digital) is not transmitting TVGOS – also no surprise.

I followed SOP to set OTA 27 to be my host, waited 2 days to get a lineup and it kept saying “no data”. It was also having trouble with the time (can’t remember the specifics). VBI test was good on my host channel. Since the lineups are supposedly sent 4x per day… to make a long story short, I got tired of waiting and entered the code 123123123 (turn on all channels) from the setup down arrow screen. And BANG, my lineup showed up with quite a bit of TV Guide data filled in. I noticed my clock was correct but I’m not really sure when this occurred. The only bummer was that ALL 541 (I only get 104) channels were now ON. I began the tedious process of shutting OFF and re-ordering channels (I found this is easier if you try to think of it as a hobby ;-). That night, while viewing the guide the Sony did a hard reset/reboot and everything was gone! When the lineup didn’t come up overnight, I did the 123123123 thing again and it’s been fine for a week.

I made a VHS tape of the times during the day that TVGOS is supposed to be sending listings, lineups and updates so I could recover more quickly in the event of another reset/reboot. I learned some things when I played it back to the Sony. This post is already too long. I’ll post that info later.

Note: I can still get TVGOS from Comcast analog channel 6 but since the cablecard won’t tune to it, I have to split the cable and send it to the Antenna OTA connector also. I can’t wait until CBS starts transmitting TVGOS digital here. Wonder what fun that will bring.

TVGOS working again in Seattle.

My HDD250 and my new Sony digital TV both stopped receiving their guides around Nov. 26. Today both have full guides. The TV host channel shows digital 0:39-0 (CBS) just as before but the HDD250 shows no host channel. It was receiving the guide from PBS 9 so I assume it still is. I don't see how it can work without listing a host channel but it does. I've never had any luck forcing it to digital, it always finds the PBS station.

(I use a rooftop antenna -no cable)

The TV host channel shows digital 0:39-0 (CBS) just as before but the HDD250 shows no host channel. It was receiving the guide from PBS 9 so I assume it still is. I don't see how it can work without listing a host channel but it does. I've never had any luck forcing it to digital, it always finds the PBS station.

Some of my "gut feelings" (and probably wrong) thoughts about the host channel:

1. It mainly tells the Sony where to go look for TVGOS when it's turned off.
2. If it's blank, the Sony should go searching for TVGOS on all the channels when it's turned OFF.
3. If you leave the Sony turned ON, it can't change channels so it will only get TVGOS data from the current channel. It also seems that if the current channel is not what Sony thinks is the host, you may have to jumpstart the reception of TVGOS by running VBI test or VBI search.
4. I have no idea when the Sony has seen enough good TVGOS data from a specific channel to finally say "ok, your my host now".

I'm curious if this would work for anybody whose digital host won't stick (I can't try it because I don't have a digital host): After establishing the digital host, disable the auto-off feature, Set a reminder to tune to your digital host every night after bedtime and just leave it on.

After a successful day of downloads yesterday afternoon and no reboots by this morning, I thought things might be fixed. But there was a reboot this afternoon and listings are sporadic. I also lost the time. Still NO VBI PACKETS show up on ANY cable or analog OTA channels except for FOX 32. My clock was always set by PBS, so they seem to have a separate problem.

frank70, I hope the discovery in Philly leads to a nationwide fix. Hey, I can dream.

I spoke with George from the KYW engineering shop today regarding Sony reboots, and he said they had discovered a problem with the network feed (CBS) that had been causing other folks' equipment to misbehave. Apparently unintended copy-guard related data was being send in the MPEG data stream and causing the problems. There is some chance that is what is causing the Sony reboots and other problems, and they're working to correct it. This really doesn't explain why my Sony also reboots after about an hour if I run the G* test on our local PBS station, WHYY, since no digital data stream is involved (at least on my end); I suppose it's possible that said copy-guard data could be encoded into the VBI of an analog signal, but what are the chances that two unrelated stations/networks would accidentally transmit the same erroneous kind of signal? Pretty slim.Another theory is that the problem really does originate with TVGOS. For analog at least, TVGOS data can appear in the VBI on any line from 10-25 except 21. CGMS-A, which is meant to prevent recording of certain copyright programming, is encoded on either of line 20 or 21, depending on the standard used. It's possible that TVGOS has inadvertently used the (2) CGMS-A bits for their ever bloating mass of listings, versions, ads, etc. If the Sony DHG series react badly to the CGMS-A bits (even when not recording), it's possible that this may be causing the reboots and other associated problems. I don't quite know how this maps into the digital (CBS) TVGOS signal, but since digital TVGOS is supposedly just the same old VBI data digitally encoded into the MPEG stream in some clever way, it's possible the effect could be the same. This would also explain why some localities are ok - fewer VBI lines required - no corrupted CGMS-A bits.

Has anyone been able to contact TVGOS about the recent problems (you know, the people who don't answer their phone and don't reply to customer care email)? Somehow I don't think the problems will go away on their own.

Well, I was fiddling around and tuned to CBS-HD OTA 2.1 and my clock set within a few seconds. Normally, I can't get anything on that channel, even with an indoor antenna. (Yep, I have picture with no antenna!) So I just hooked up my indoor antenna and am getting 2.1 at about 66% and a lot of freezes and dropouts. My guess is it's just temporary due to weather or something, and I won't have the channel for long.

However, I found that CBS digital is sending data packets. They come in like crazy OTA, but Comcast is not passing the data as they had been the last few months.

So it seems there are two problems: 1) Bad data causing the reboots and 2) Comcast is stripping the TVGOS data, screwing those of us who can't get it OTA.

Just found this!!! Go to http://tvgos.custhelp.com/ and create yourself an account, then read the 74 answers. Nothing specifically pertaining to the current rash of ill behavior of our Sonys, but one of the articles (Answer ID 166) alludes to legacy devices not having enough memory to accomodate the listings for certain zip codes. Yikes!

Answer ID 178 is verrrrrrrrrry interesting too.

Yes, anything before the 8th version of TVGOS only has a very limited number of slots for channels. They could be referring specifically to those. In order to add anything new, they have to take away. That's how my V7's are - they don't even have enough slots to list all of the subchannels for OTA, including some of the originals, and whenever they add other new channels.

By the way - I though copyguarding OTA was illlegal? Wht are they messing around with placing that in there anyway? No wonder so many people are reporting problems with it with their SD recorders recently, that never had that problem before.

By the way - I though copyguarding OTA was illlegal? Wht are they messing around with placing that in there anyway?I don't know, but if it slipped in there accidentally on CBS, you bet the capability is waiting in the wings for some sort of legal loophole. Or maybe the stream was meant to be delivered only to cable/sat/FiOS head ends and accidentally went out OTA. I'll get back to my KYW contact in a week or so and see what the story might be.

For the last 5 days, KIRO 7.1 (CBS affilliate) was not broadcasting TVGOS over the air. Only way I could receive guide was via the PBS channel using a VHF antenna. I left Seattle Monday morning to go to work and the wife calls me and says KIRO 7.1 OTA is now broadcasting Packets on 7.1 Digital as of Tuesday. She is running the force VBI test and I'll let this thread know what the outcome is. Once KIRO broadcasts the guide with some regularity, I plan on bugging COMCAST to do the same. Don't start laughing yet.

......................... the wife calls me and says KIRO 7.1 OTA is now broadcasting Packets on 7.1 Digital as of Tuesday. She is running the force VBI test ..............................

WOW, that's some kinda wife you have there!!! :D:D:D

Thanks for the Seattle VBI information. I am getting VBI packets from KIRO 7.1 OTA but my TVGOS remains unpopulated. I finally got my clock corrected thru the PBS KCTS channel 9 - any suggestions regarding resuscitating my TVGOS would be greatly appreciated. I am trying to read all the posts, but am feeling overwhelmed.

I don't know, but if it slipped in there accidentally on CBS, you bet the capability is waiting in the wings for some sort of legal loophole. Or maybe the stream was meant to be delivered only to cable/sat/FiOS head ends and accidentally went out OTA. I'll get back to my KYW contact in a week or so and see what the story might be.Well, Macrovision does own TVGOS now, remember. :rolleyes::(

I guess these people are finding that the CP is being inserted in the commercials, of all things, probably to circumvent the law.

I guess these people are finding that the CP is being inserted in the commercials, of all things, probably to circumvent the law.

If that's the case, then an enterprising CE manufacturer could just design the DVR to record the non-CP stuff. Then we wouldn't need the 30-second skip feature at all.

Wouldn't it be funny if this were to happen. I think the phrase "unintended consequences" comes to mind.

Ok, so I'm not Archimedes and I haven't discovered buoyancy. But inspired by Answer ID 166 at the Macrovision TVGOS website, I decided to try changing my zip code from 19053 (suburban Philadelphia) to 19601 (Reading, PA) on the theory that if TVGOS was inadvertently sending more listings on version 8 than the Sony DHG's can hold in memory (thereby causing spontaneous reboots), perhaps switching to Reading, a more RF isolated community about 45 miles NW of Philly, would yield fewer listings and permit the download to complete without a reboot.

Sure enough, I changed the zip code this morning, turned off the box and went to work. Upon arrival home this evening, I've got ads, channel lineup and listings, none of which I've had for the past week and a half. There are about 575 channels listed, and as I recall the number was over 600 for my zip code the last time I looked, so it may be squeaking by now. No telling how long until I'll have to move it further out.

The upshot of this for the rest of you who are OTA only and may be experiencing loss of listings and/or random reboots: figure out some community that is within reception range of the channels you generally want guide for, but in an area more remote from a lot of major cities. Put in that zip code instead of your own. If you've already got a channel lineup and it's more than 600 channels, I'd suggest a TVGOS reset too, just to get rid of them and hopefully get a smaller list.

The upshot of this for the TVGOS people is that they are failing to honor the version 8 memory limitations, at least as they apply to the Sony DHG series. They should know the limits of the device and endeavor not to exceed them.

What all this means to cable folk, I have no idea. As an OTA only TVGOS user, I don't understand why all the cable channels are still included in my channel lineup (admittedly turned off, but still taking up memory for the per-channel information including all the logos.) Perhaps cable-only folks are not getting the OTA listings, and that spares them from this problem.

So I will amend my pending questions to TVGOS to let them know this new development and that they should check on their memory utilization for version 8 devices as a potential cause of the recent problems. I haven't heard a word from them in the past 2 or 3 days since I emailed them though, so I may be talking into the great abyss.

OR... it could be that they fixed some unrelated problem and I didn't need to change zip codes at all. Have other folks out there with reboot and/or no listing problems seen a sudden improvement over the last 24 hours?

Frank -

Again, I have 649 channels listed on one of my DHG's and have not had any problems.

I saw your other post earlier today, but I didn't sign up for the Macrovision site access, because I couldn't understand why they felt they needed to know my personal income. (I guess I could have lied about it).

Your earlier statement about item 166 though seemed to pertain more to "Listings" as opposed to "Channels". I can see where it's entirely possible to run into memory constraints if you have hundreds of channels turned "ON", and attempt to acquire listings for all of them.

"OR... it could be that they fixed some unrelated problem and I didn't need to change zip codes at all. Have other folks out there with reboot and/or no listing problems seen a sudden improvement over the last 24 hours?" from frank70

I wasn't suffering reboot problem, but I did have lots of listings NOT downloaded over a week-long period, a difficulty that resolved itself about 5 or 6 days ago...

Which brings me to the issue of maybe "they fixed some unrelated problem" for my OTHER unit, an LG 34100a, which had been suffering from lack of downloads for about half the time (and my using 7-second unplugs to PARTIALLY rectify the problem ) EVER SINCE MAY - it's been a real pain!!!

Anyway, for maybe the first time since May, I've ALSO gotten clean listings for 5 or 6 days on my 3410a (which as you probably know is version 7)...I'm hoping now that, in fixing something for v8, they also fixed a related problem that they may not have even known about for v7.

I saw your other post earlier today, but I didn't sign up for the Macrovision site access, because I couldn't understand why they felt they needed to know my personal income. (I guess I could have lied about it).You only need to fill in the "required" fields, the ones with an asterisk or whatever.

All I can say about the zip code change is that it worked, which is far better than anything else I've tried over the last week or so. May be coincidental. I suppose I'll never know because my button-pushin' finger is tired and needs a lot of rest in prep for 17 Feb :)

Frank, I'm glad to read you got a temp fix for this problem, hopefully what you shared will help others. I never would have thought to change your zip code.

As I mentioned I am OTA and Cablecard, my listing are still fine for week ahead and the Sony is still not locked onto a host channel but seems my VBI packets are coming in on a Digital HD PBS channel now, it use to be OTA PBS ch. I can't explain it but I'm working good.

Force your host channel to Comcast 90 (I guess you should first see if you get VBI packets). I've got all 8 days populated now...I'm in Bellevue with Comcast and a cable card.

Thanks for the Seattle VBI information. I am getting VBI packets from KIRO 7.1 OTA but my TVGOS remains unpopulated. I finally got my clock corrected thru the PBS KCTS channel 9 - any suggestions regarding resuscitating my TVGOS would be greatly appreciated. I am trying to read all the posts, but am feeling overwhelmed.

Sorry-forgot to say who I was replying to: Force your host channel to Comcast 90 (I guess you should first see if you get VBI packets). I've got all 8 days populated now...I'm in Bellevue with Comcast and a cable card.

You only need to fill in the "required" fields, the ones with an asterisk or whatever.

All I can say about the zip code change is that it worked, which is far better than anything else I've tried over the last week or so. May be coincidental. I suppose I'll never know because my button-pushin' finger is tired and needs a lot of rest in prep for 17 Feb :)

I understand about being tired of button pushing ................

But you never did answer my question from a few days ago...... Just how many channels were you pulling in to your channel list (prior to changing zipcodes)???

I understand about being tired of button pushing ................

But you never did answer my question from a few days ago...... Just how many channels were you pulling in to your channel list (prior to changing zipcodes)???Prior to changing zip codes I've had NO channel list (completely empty) for nearly 2 weeks. Before the great spontaneous reset event, I seldom looked at it, but last time I did (maybe a month or two ago) I know it was already over 600. I had all but about 15 turned off via the channel editor.

Your earlier statement about item 166 though seemed to pertain more to "Listings" as opposed to "Channels". I can see where it's entirely possible to run into memory constraints if you have hundreds of channels turned "ON", and attempt to acquire listings for all of them.

I can't imagine running into memory constraints to store non-video data on these recorders: the memory required to store that stuff is probably much less than that used to store one second of a recorded HDTV program.

Ray

Glad to hear you got your listings back, Frank70.

As another data point, I have 797 channels on my 500...and my cableco changed their lineup on Dec 1, which forced me spend 1.5 hours wading though that monstrous list to fix my lineup. :eek:

A little trick I used to get to the end (or any other numeric point in the list):
I would choose one of the hundreds of irrelevant channels, and move it to the part of the list I was trying to get to. Beats scrolling...

Ok, so I'm not Archimedes and I haven't discovered buoyancy. But inspired by Answer ID 166 at the Macrovision TVGOS website, I decided to try changing my zip code from 19053 (suburban Philadelphia) to 19601 (Reading, PA) on the theory that if TVGOS was inadvertently sending more listings on version 8 than the Sony DHG's can hold in memory (thereby causing spontaneous reboots), perhaps switching to Reading, a more RF isolated community about 45 miles NW of Philly, would yield fewer listings and permit the download to complete without a reboot.

This is good news. We're in Media, PA and our DHG is suffering from incomplete listings and random reboots.

I'm not at home right now to see if we're getting guide data or a host channel, but I can check this weekend. Or perhaps I'll ask the wife if the listings have come back.

I can't imagine running into memory constraints to store non-video data on these recorders: the memory required to store that stuff is probably much less than that used to store one second of a recorded HDTV program.

RayYou're confusing memory (RAM) with hard drive space. During TVGOS reception, the software must store the downloaded data somewhere that it can sort it, format it, build strings that hold all sorts of information. In the end, it may be stored on disk for later retrieval, but during the "computational" portions of a download, there is stack and heap space allocated depending on how much data is expected (normally byte-counts in a header indicate how much data is to follow.)

While the Sony's have 250/500 GB of disk space, the actual TVGOS code runs on a processor with a much more limited amout of RAM (I'd be surprised if it had even 32MB). As RAM has become less expensive, newer TVGOS-enabled equipment is likely to have more RAM.

In contrast, the video data stored on disk is mostly just an MPEG bitstream that is pulled off and sent to a chip for reassembly into video frames. Except for pulling out PSIP data, the video is largely unmanipulated by software, and if DMA is used may pass directly between the drive and the video chip(s) without ever being buffered in memory.

frank70

Which channel is transmitting the TVGOS data you are receiving?

Can someone refresh my memory what the difference is between the host channel and the VBI channel in the set up menu>down once>753159852>then right it shows your host ch and vbi ch

I just did this and for some strange reason after about a week of it being blank they are both finally filled in.

My host ch shows 0:22-0 (which means it's OTA ch 22)
My VBI ch shows 1:0-440 (which means cable ch 440)

440 is my digital cable HD PBS ch which is passing loads of VBI data.
22 is my OTA ch which I dont even have turned on and is not passing any VBI data.

So what is the difference? I've never had a problem with listings. How can I have a host ch OTA and then a different VBI ch passing VBI packets? I thought your host ch was what ended up passing the VBI data?

The host channel is what you're getting the listings from (e.g., overnight, with the unit OFF). If you do the G* test on a channel, it will show up as the vbi channel, as I understand it (or maybe WHATEVER channel you are tuned to will show up as the vbi channel)...

frank70
Which channel is transmitting the TVGOS data you are receiving?In Philly I get TVGOS via either WHYY analog (12) or KYW-DT digital (3.1). On rare occasion, WPSG analog (57) delivers TVGOS data too (probably because of it's relationship to sister station KYW), but the other two are the main sources. Since 12 is stronger than 3.1, the Sony selects it as Host Channel. If I force 3.1, it works sometimes for days, even a week, but it ultimately reverts to 12.

The host channel is what you're getting the listings from (e.g., overnight, with the unit OFF). If you do the G* test on a channel, it will show up as the vbi channel, as I understand it (or maybe WHATEVER channel you are tuned to will show up as the vbi channel)...Yes, the so-called "VBI Chan" is a virtually useless piece of information. Mostly (but not always) it tracks the channel you're currently tuned to. It is the "Host Chan" that is the important one.

In Philly I get TVGOS via either WHYY analog (12) or KYW-DT digital (3.1). On rare occasion, WPSG analog (57) delivers TVGOS data too (probably because of it's relationship to sister station KYW), but the other two are the main sources. Since 12 is stronger than 3.1, the Sony selects it as Host Channel. If I force 3.1, it works sometimes for days, even a week, but it ultimately reverts to 12.

frank70,

Do you know which channel you were receiving TVGOS from today, after you changed the ZIP code, and TVGOS started working again? I am in Allentown, and am not receiving any TVGOS data OTA.

frank70,
Do you know which channel you were receiving TVGOS from today, after you changed the ZIP code, and TVGOS started working again? I am in Allentown, and am not receiving any TVGOS data OTA.Yes, WHYY analog channel 12. Can you get that up there?

A little trick I used to get to the end (or any other numeric point in the list): I would choose one of the hundreds of irrelevant channels, and move it to the part of the list I was trying to get to. Beats scrolling...Scrolling is actually pretty fast if you hold down the "Page" (Channel up/down) keys.

Yes, WHYY analog channel 12. Can you get that up there?

Unfortunately, WHYY 12 analog and 57 digital are the two that I do not receive OTA. RCN apparently strips the TVGOS data from WHYY Analog on the cable system. We used to get TVGOS data from a WHYY subchannel, but RCN dropped the analog version of that back on 11/15. Since then, I have received only a few burps of data on analog 57 OTA (the clock was set from analog 57 a few times). Guess we are out of luck for the time being.

Thanks for all the info you have provided.

No, the host channel is not relevant to the G* test. The G* test uses the channel to which you are currently tuned. The only caveat is that after starting the G* test on an analog channel, you must not change channels; after starting it on a digital channel, you can change channels as long as you don't change to an analog channel that transmits TVGOS VBI. Both of these events STOP the G* test.

The host channel listed in the diagnostic screens only tells you which channel the Sony is using when it is in standby ("off") to download listings.

However, at least here in Philly, all the G* test does for me is reboot the Sony after some amount of time. This is not the same behavior as before, so I must assume the TVGOS folk changed something.
I'm still SOL (been over two weeks). G test keeps giving me same as you - it's only useful to reset the clock, nothing more; but then sometime during the next several hours it simply reboots DVR and I'm yet to see anything repopulate in listings! Should I risk a complete reset? Any one in Central NJ find anything other than 163 (CBS) for Comcast from which we can cull VBI packets???

Thx to anyone out there with any help.

p.s. Comcast has gone dark - completely non-responsive.

The upshot of this for the rest of you who are OTA only and may be experiencing loss of listings and/or random reboots: figure out some community that is within reception range of the channels you generally want guide for, but in an area more remote from a lot of major cities. Put in that zip code instead of your own.The only problem with that is that any other zipcode which brings me a slightly different lineup doesn't include all the channels and subchannels from my main one. I've tried that already. Of course, if worse comes to worst, a partial lineup's data is better than no data at all.

I added a CableCard to my DHG and now I get an intermittent "recording not permitted by service provider" with certain programs on the sports networks. I have the Motorola 4.05 card. From what I've read here, several guys upgraded to the 4.21 card. Did that completely resolve the problem for you guys? Thanks for any info!

G test keeps giving me same as you - it's only useful to reset the clock, nothing more; but then sometime during the next several hours it simply reboots DVR and I'm yet to see anything repopulate in listings!Yes, that's exactly what was happening to mine before I changed zip code. So I guess this means that it's still happening and would happen to me again if I went back to the original zip code.

No point in hunting for a different channel, they'll all do the same thing unless you change your zip code.

I'm still on Macrovision's case about this, but they're totally non-responsive - they answer neither phone nor emails. I'm going to call their corporate offices and complain. Anybody else want to do the same thing, their number is 408-562-8400 - don't even bother to ask for tech support, it just goes to voicemail. Get the operator, she's nice.

Should I risk a complete reset?





Yes.

HonestLeeD -

Just for the record, how many channels are in your channel list?

If this is what's causing the problems, it would be nice to know the point (qty of channels) at which troubles begin. I have 649 channels on one of my units, and it is still working fine. Do you have more than this?

Note: Of the 649 channels, I have about 20 turned "ON".

Today, after two weeks of a blank 'host'.....(although the guide still updated daily) I now have my local PBS analog station listed as host. Same as it was before the host went blank.

Sorry-forgot to say who I was replying to: Force your host channel to Comcast 90 (I guess you should first see if you get VBI packets). I've got all 8 days populated now...I'm in Bellevue with Comcast and a cable card.

I actually reset my zip code to Bellevue and had it populated this morning, although I am missing all of my Seattle HD channels. No VBI packets on Comcast 90. I checked my host and it was blank, the VBI source was listed as 26 ????

I am going to try to do a reset tonight and re list all of my cable card and OTA channels. Thanks for the input--I appreciate all the help I can get.

Just thought I'd share this. As background reminder, I have TVGOS V8 on two devices:

Sony DHG250: TVGOS firmware 08.01.42/08.06.44
3-year old Panasonic Plasma TV: TVGOS firmware 08.01.53/08.05.44 (I've never understood why this thing has never updated to 08.06.44)

Over the weekend, the Sony got good TVGOS digital data for one day from the local CBS affiliate (WUSA-HD) through the cable card on QAM212, then reverted to getting good analog data from the local PBS host (WETA on QAM92).

I checked both units today around 2:30 PM local. On the Sony, I see no VBI packets from 92 at this time, and the Host Channel is blank (but I still have good listings for at least three days). However, I do see VBI packets coming in on 212. One assumption I have is that I ran the G* test on 92 during a period when TVGOS data is normally not being transmitted. This would then beg the question: is digital TVGOS data transmitted continuously, or am I seeing digital "VBI packets" from WUSA that have nothing to do with TVGOS?

To further muddy the waters, on the TV I currently see no VBI packets from either 92 or 212 (I think the interfaces between the cable card, tuner, and TVGOS system on this thing are worse than those on the Sony, which does not bode well for the TV post Feb '09:(). But, the Host Channel is still shown as 92, and I still have good listings.

Some more maybe interesting (and perhaps useless) information. When I run the G* test for each channel on both devices, under the line "Packet statistics for:", I see the following:

TV tuned to 92: VBI: 92 ATSC: 92
TV tuned to 212: VBI: 1023-66533
DHG tuned to either 92 or 212: VBI: 1023-66533 ATSC: 1023-66533

I have no idea what these data imply.

This could mostly be related to whatever Macrovision has (or has not) been doing recently to update/fix/play-around-with TVGOS data streams. The on-going mystery is apparently still going on.

................... This would then beg the question: is digital TVGOS data transmitted continuously, or am I seeing digital "VBI packets" from WUSA that have nothing to do with TVGOS?
..................................

I don't know about "continuously", but TVGOS data is apparently broadcast more frequently over digital channels than it is over analog channels. And yes, there are digital "VBI Packets" that have nothing to do with TVGOS.

This started many months ago but is becoming more and more common. I'll not check it for a few days, and then find that its not updating.
I'll do a soft reset (power off for 60 secs or a front panel reset)...and then its fine for a couple of days, and then its starts not updating

We have comcast zip 95403, 60 miles north of San Francisco.

About a month ago, the unit lost all my channel guide programing...including my channel arrangement (Argh!). Sure wish there was an easier way to set the channel lineup. Just setup a new sony KDL 46z4100 that as TVGOS...I'll be interested to see if it has any issues. I'm hoping that my unit is not beginning a slow death....that would be very sad. Why doesn't sony make this product again. IT IS THE BEST!!!

Cw

I read about 20 posts back that the wife was checking for packets and verifying the functionality of the DVR. Geezzz, I can't even get my wife to turn the damn thing on and use it!!!!

I can only hope she is just as good at other....things:)

Cw

I added a CableCard to my DHG and now I get an intermittent "recording not permitted by service provider" with certain programs on the sports networks. I have the Motorola 4.05 card. From what I've read here, several guys upgraded to the 4.21 card. Did that completely resolve the problem for you guys? Thanks for any info!

You need an M-Card. The FW solves your problem, but the M-Card is needed to solve a different one --- random loss of card authorization in the old card with FW 4.21.

Just insist on an M-Card and you will be in good shape.

About a month ago, the unit lost all my channel guide programing...including my channel arrangement (Argh!). Sure wish there was an easier way to set the channel lineup. Just setup a new sony KDL 46z4100 that as TVGOS...I'll be interested to see if it has any issues.

Cw

Here in the Philadelphia area I have both a DHG recorder and a Sony KDL-52XBR6 feed from Comcast cable w/o cable cards using the same zip code. Both originally working units began to fail to receive the guide data, however now without any intervention the DHG is working again but the XBR6 still remains blank.
At least the recorder is working for now. :)

Ok this makes no sense to me, I'm finally locked onto a host channel after being blank for the past week or more. It's locked on 0:22-0, which would mean OTA ch 22, but I don't have an OTA ch 22, I have a digital QAM ch 22. I am using OTA and cable and I scrolled through and there is no OTA 22 ch, I even went into the add +/- listing on the DVR to see if it was unchecked but there was no OTA 22 only a digital 22

Ok this makes no sense to me, I'm finally locked onto a host channel after being blank for the past week or more. It's locked on 0:22-0, which would mean OTA ch 22, but I don't have an OTA ch 22, I have a digital QAM ch 22. I am using OTA and cable and I scrolled through and there is no OTA 22 ch, I even went into the add +/- listing on the DVR to see if it was unchecked but there was no OTA 22 only a digital 22Actually, the designation 0:22-0 is a digital designation. Apparently, one of your digital OTA channels (which may be something like 3.1) is on RF channel 22. So 22.0 is mapped to 3.1 in the PSIP, but they are equivalent. If you are near Key West, then the PSIP-mapped digital channel number is 3.1; if you are near Clearwater, then the PSIP-mapped digital channel is 21.1.

The Host Channel designation for analog channel 22 would be 0:0-22, not 0:22-0.

In Seattle. Have VBI info over local CBS 7.1. My wife ran the Force VBI Search on 7.1 and in the morning it was listed as the host channel.

She got home this afternoon and the time was wrong and all of the guide information was missing. It looks like it did a re-boot. She tuned to the local PBS station and ran the G* test and was able to get the clock back promptly.

Anyone else in Seattle experience this 'feature'?

Ok this makes no sense to me, I'm finally locked onto a host channel after being blank for the past week or more. It's locked on 0:22-0, which would mean OTA ch 22, but I don't have an OTA ch 22, I have a digital QAM ch 22. I am using OTA and cable and I scrolled through and there is no OTA 22 ch, I even went into the add +/- listing on the DVR to see if it was unchecked but there was no OTA 22 only a digital 22

Fan -

Go to www.antennaweb.org and put in your zipcode. you can then view a list of channels (with Channel Number and actual Frequency Assignment) that you can potentially receive in your area. This may help you to determine which channel is showing up as your host.:)

Doing the frank70 procedure from reset but the past two nights cannot get my unit to download the 8.06.44 firmware. It's stuck on 8.05.40 which was dl from my local CBS WUSA-DT 9.1 after a reset the first night. Any ideas?

Detroit-Toledo-Lansing markets....

I did a force for WWJ 62.1 digital in the hopes of finding some listings.....This morning I have 95% full guide data for eight days out......Looks like WWJ is getting their digital TVGOS system online, I called the engineer with no call back yet. But I see packets and got guide data by forcing it as my host.

I'm still waiting to hear back from the engineer, but it looks like Detroit finally has digital guide data available......Would love for others in the area to try this as well, and let me know how it goes.

I have both TW and OTA reception in WLA, and find it hard to believe that TW would assign the same numbers as OTA. If your 250 is connected to an antenna, both those channels should come in OTA.

Ray

Hi Ray - I am directing this question to you since you are in my neck of the woods, and I have both TW and OTA. I tried forcing a digital host on my DHG250 using the procedure as outlined by spiff and Frank. I tuned the DVR to 2.1 (CBS) Air, After waiting 24 hours I checked my host channel and it is listed as 0:28, but the VBI channel is 2.1.

What does this mean? I am getting guide data, but is this coming from the digital station (2.1) or PBS channel 28 which is listed as the host. What is VBI anyway.

By the way TW and OTA, has the same channel numbers, so I have 2.1 Air and 2.1 Cable, 4.1 Air and 4.1 Cable, etc.

Thanks!

Hi Ray - I am directing this question to you since you are in my neck of the woods, and I have both TW and OTA. I tried forcing a digital host on my DHG250 using the procedure as outlined by spiff and Frank. I tuned the DVR to 2.1 (CBS) Air, After waiting 24 hours I checked my host channel and it is listed as 0:28, but the VBI channel is 2.1.

What does this mean? I am getting guide data, but is this coming from the digital station (2.1) or PBS channel 28 which is listed as the host. What is VBI anyway.

By the way TW and OTA, has the same channel numbers, so I have 2.1 Air and 2.1 Cable, 4.1 Air and 4.1 Cable, etc.

Thanks!

VBI channel has been covered probably 40 times in this thread. The VBI channel is what ever channel you are currently tuned to before you entered the diagnostics menu.

To all you folks out there, for what it's worth-here's TVGOS's response to my email complaint:


Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

We are continuing to work on your issue. To provide more information, click the following link or paste it into your web browser.
http://tvgos.custhelp***(i deleted the rest of the link)


Subject
---------------------------------------------------------------
Digital Transition Problem 98005:Comcast - King County


Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Gina Barnes) - 12/05/2008 02:59 PM
There seems to be a data passage problem in your area. We will be escalating this to TV Guide's Broadcast Engineers for further investigation into this problem. We will up date you as soon as we can. Thank you.
Customer (Dale) - 12/05/2008 02:16 PM
Cable provider is Comcast.
Zip code is 98005
Model number DVR is: Sony DHG-HDD250
Cable card is inserted into DVR.

Response (Jay Navarro) - 12/05/2008 10:46 AM
Thank you for contacting TV Guide On Screen. Before we can help you with this problem we need more information for this investigation. Could you please provide us with the following information, thank you.

Cable Provider:

Zip Code:

Model Number:

Set up (Cable Ready, Cable Box, Cable Card):

Doing the frank70 procedure from reset but the past two nights cannot get my unit to download the 8.06.44 firmware. It's stuck on 8.05.40 which was dl from my local CBS WUSA-DT 9.1 after a reset the first night. Any ideas?If your Sony is rebooting (i.e. you look at it and even though you left it turned on, it is now off and the time reads --:--), that may be interfering with the progress of the procedure (it certainly was for me.) In the case of sponeaneous rebooting, you need to change your zip code to another zip code that you think will receive fewer channels, but still receive the channels you're interested in, typically a place 40-60 miles away. See my earlier Eureka post. If you're not getting reboots, and you have re-started the G* test since it downloaded 8.05.40 and waited at least one overnight, then I can't say what the problem is, other than to say that lots of folks are suddenly having various issues with TVGOS.

Hi Ray - I am directing this question to you since you are in my neck of the woods, and I have both TW and OTA. I tried forcing a digital host on my DHG250 using the procedure as outlined by spiff and Frank. I tuned the DVR to 2.1 (CBS) Air, After waiting 24 hours I checked my host channel and it is listed as 0:28, but the VBI channel is 2.1.The procedure to force a digital host hardly ever works the first time for me - I often need to repeat it for 2 or 3 days before the digital channel will finally pop up as the Host Chan. Hopefully, before even trying to force your Sony to this digital channel, you've verified (by running the G* test) that your channel 2.1 is indeed resulting in an incrementing VBI packet count. Have you checked the master list of TVGOS digital stations in Spiff's forum, or called the station to make sure they really are broadcasting digital TVGOS? If they are not, no amount of forcing will make the Sony adopt it as a Host Chan.

If your Sony is rebooting ..................... you need to change your zip code to another zip code that you think will receive fewer channels.................................

Derek -

If you want to try this, that's great. But please check first to see how many channels you have now, and let us know the number. :)

It would be nice to someday add to Spiff's FAQ "If you have more than Qty-X channels in your Channel List, and Qty-Y channels turned ON, your DHG will spontaneously reboot".

Ugh. It looks like my Sony just lost the ability to tune in digital OTA channels. When I do a channel scan it picks up 18 analog and 0 digital. It was working fine a few days ago picking up 11 digital. I tried different antennas with the Sony as well as the same antennas on both a TiVo and CECB and those worked fine so it's definitely the Sony.

So.... Do I dare send it to Sony for repair? Has anyone else had something like this repaired out of warranty? It might not be worth the money.

I'm curious since it is a "single tuner" does that mean one integrated analog/digital tuner or separate analog and digital tuners that work as one? Strange that only the digital OTA part has failed. Analog OTA, Analog Cable and Digital Cable all work though in recent months the CableCARD keeps loosing authorization.

Spiffs site shows you how to force the host

http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html

Here is the directions on how to force the host channel

1. Tune to the station (either OTA or cable) that you want to use as the host.
2. Press <GUIDE> - move the cursor over the SETUP item on the top menu bar, then press <DOWN>, followed by 963214785. If the code is received properly, the "Info" message just below "Change System Settings" should say "Searching Current VBI Channel".
3. Don't touch anything. The screen should disappear after 5 minutes. Once it disappears, turn off the unit and leave it alone overnight to magically download the guide.
4. On the following day, check the host channel with the "753..." menu described above. If it shows the host channel you tuned to in Step 1, you have successfully changed it! If not, try resetting the guide info and start over.


Hopes this helps you

Trying this tonight, thanks for the tip.

Twinbrook -

What do you see on the screen when it (doesn't) tune the channels? The "No Signal" indication or something else?

It said "no signal" but now it's working again. Go figure. I was wrong about it being digital OTA only though. It was also digital cable that wasn't working. With the CableCARD in I was only getting 2 analog and 0 digital. With the CableCARD out I was only getting 20 analog (basic cable) and 0 digital.

Now I'm getting all the digital cable channels again so I'll hook the antenna back up and see what happens. Some strange voodoo going on.

Actually, the designation 0:22-0 is a digital designation. Apparently, one of your digital OTA channels (which may be something like 3.1) is on RF channel 22. So 22.0 is mapped to 3.1 in the PSIP, but they are equivalent. If you are near Key West, then the PSIP-mapped digital channel number is 3.1; if you are near Clearwater, then the PSIP-mapped digital channel is 21.1.

The Host Channel designation for analog channel 22 would be 0:0-22, not 0:22-0.

Cool, thanks for clarifying that, I thought I was losing my mind, now that makes sense. You were pretty close it's actually being mapped to 4.1

Fan -
Go to www.antennaweb.org and put in your zipcode. you can then view a list of channels (with Channel Number and actual Frequency Assignment) that you can potentially receive in your area. This may help you to determine which channel is showing up as your host.:)

WS65711, thanks for the link. From that link I found what my host channel is really mapping to. My digital Qam Ch 22 (shows as my host) is mapping to 4.1 OTA (which is a CBS Ch), I just did a VBI test on 4.1 OTA and it showed passed on all and is showing huge amts of VBI packets, so that pretty much confirms it. It sure is nice to finally know what my host really is and what it's mapping to for VBI. Sure glad I didn't disconnect my OTA antenna. I continue to have listings for a week in advance. I love this Sony HDD, I can't tell you how much money this thing has saved me over the years. It's paid for itself 10 fold.

As of last night, TVGOS data is again being sent by PBS channel 11, and being passed by Comcast channel 94 in Chicago. The Sony did a reboot, but picked up the time from 94, which was always the clock set channel even while my host was CBS-HD.

I still have no host. I have only partial new listings because of the reboot. On nights/days when there is no reboot, I get full listings. My e-mails to TVGOS have gotten no response (of course).

Comcast CBS-HD 189 is still not passing TVGOS data. I have written to a contact in a Comcast regional office to see what I can find out.

It said "no signal" but now it's working again. Go figure. I was wrong about it being digital OTA only though. It was also digital cable that wasn't working. With the CableCARD in I was only getting 2 analog and 0 digital. With the CableCARD out I was only getting 20 analog (basic cable) and 0 digital.

Now I'm getting all the digital cable channels again so I'll hook the antenna back up and see what happens. Some strange voodoo going on.

If one of your problems is random loss of card authorization, you need to get an M-Card.

Since you are near Chicago, can you run the G*Test on Comcast CBS-HD? I'd like to know if Comcast is passing the data in nearby areas. They cut me off about three weeks ago. Thanks.

Hi Ray - I am directing this question to you since you are in my neck of the woods, and I have both TW and OTA. I tried forcing a digital host on my DHG250 using the procedure as outlined by spiff and Frank. I tuned the DVR to 2.1 (CBS) Air, After waiting 24 hours I checked my host channel and it is listed as 0:28, but the VBI channel is 2.1.

What does this mean? I am getting guide data, but is this coming from the digital station (2.1) or PBS channel 28 which is listed as the host. What is VBI anyway.

By the way TW and OTA, has the same channel numbers, so I have 2.1 Air and 2.1 Cable, 4.1 Air and 4.1 Cable, etc.

Thanks!

I have no plan to force the digital host since I see no benefit in doing so since so many others have proven it can be done. I assume my DVRs with automatically acquire the digital channel after analog channel is shut down.

Are you sure that you can tune to cable 2.1? In my area, TW cable channel, with the cable card, is 402, and without is a number like 74.645. I don't know the exact number since I tune to the OTA source.

Ray

First, as a new member I would like to thank all who have helped in this thread.
I've been following it for quite some time and have read every page.
I have two 500's that have been working flawlessly, with the exception of the usual gliches.
Both machines have different hosts, one still uses wttw 11 and the other was using wbbm 2.
I've rarely had any missed guide info and just wanted to pass along this strange occurance which has happened recently.
My one machine has suddenly switched host to channel 3? but there is no channel 3!
When I set it to 3 it says, as expected "No signal" but when I check the 9012 menu the VBI count is better than 11 or 2.1 or 2? and says the host is 3.
Just thought I'd pass this along to anyone in the Chicago area and see if anyone else has had this happen.

3 is WBBM-DT's real channel number, which is CBS (for those outside of Chicagoland) - if that means anything.

Is it analog or digital 3 that's listed?

Thanks for the quick reply. My guide is full for all eight days so I guess I'm getting it digital. Yaho...

Sorry, I left out a few details in the first post.
OTA only and in the 753159852 menu it shows as analog.

I understand getting time information and guide information are not the same thing, but they're usually related. Here is a chart I made of the offset of program start times relative to the clock times for one of my RDRs. I had assumed that the DST ending needed a clock update to correct the recorder clock, but this data makes it appear the the time protocol sets the one hour shift in advance of the effective time of the jump.

It appears that Seattle Comcast changed the KCTS 9 signal somewhere around 10/28. It also shows an update sometime in the night of 11/16 - 11/17. This may be the date the channel 90 addition was made. The fix didn't last, at least in my part of the distribution plant, although daleebob reports that it has continued to work where he is in nearby Bellevue, WA.

http://suna.subako.org/~beeman/rdrOffset.jpg

I was wondering with everything that has been going on lately with most of our Sony's could losing your cable signal be one of them? I have 2 cablecards one for my TV and one for my Sony HDD. Today I just lost signal with the cablecard in my Sony while the one in my TV is working fine. Called the cable co and they re-sent the signal to that specific card but didn't work. Have not had any problems with either cablecard in years and now all of a sudden have I lost signal.

I was wondering with everything that has been going on lately with most of our Sony's could losing your cable signal be one of them? I have 2 cablecards one for my TV and one for my Sony HDD. Today I just lost signal with the cablecard in my Sony while the one in my TV is working fine. Called the cable co and they re-sent the signal to that specific card but didn't work. Have not had any problems with either cablecard in years and now all of a sudden have I lost signal.

I had a similar issue several weeks ago (which turned out to be the start of all of my problems). The cable company replaced the card.....and the issues remained. Rebooting the unit (exit & guide buttons) on the front, actually solved the card reading issue - but I still have no clock, no listings and no guide. I've since found out that this is an issue with the local host channel and their TVGOS equipment. Oh well.....at least I can view the channels that I should be getting now.

Sorry, I left out a few details in the first post.
OTA only and in the 753159852 menu it shows as analog.Boy, they really are screwing around with things now, aren't they? :confused:

I lost both my listings and clock from Chicago, but I was at least able to get my clock back using Rockford's WQRF and a zipcode from their market (still no host channel listed, though). So all my pre-set recordings are all firing right, and I can at least set new manual timers for the time being.

I guess maybe this puts a kink in the belief then that the time is being sent along with the guide data, and that it's not getting it seperately, huh? (There is no PBS station out of Rockford - or at least no strong enough one - that's why their FOX station sends both TVGOS and the time.)

During all the recent troubles, I've been able to get a clock set from 2.1 OTA (which I only get sporadically). When Comcast PBS 94 came back online, and after the next random reset of the DVR, it went back to getting the time from 94. 94 was the preferred clock channel even during the months guide data was coming from CBS-HD 189.

Wish I could actually get 2.1 OTA to see if it would work or not. :rolleyes:;)

FYI, I just tuned in on 3.1 and the picture is actually a little better than 2.1 but it's the same program. VBI packets were better than anything with 128 in a minute.
I'm going to try to get it to switch if I can. I'll let you know.
When I went to 3 in and went to the guide it said it was tured off but it still got lots of packets. I went searching and found 3.1 was on and the picture was great.

I had a similar issue several weeks ago (which turned out to be the start of all of my problems). The cable company replaced the card.....and the issues remained. Rebooting the unit (exit & guide buttons) on the front, actually solved the card reading issue - but I still have no clock, no listings and no guide. I've since found out that this is an issue with the local host channel and their TVGOS equipment. Oh well.....at least I can view the channels that I should be getting now.

Hey, thanks what do I have to lose I'll try the reboot (exit & guide) to see if that gets my cablecard signal back. Guess I'll lose my full week of guide data.

SonyWinner, excellent advice I just did a reboot and that got me back my signal for my cablecard, noticed my clock was behind 30 mins, gave it a few more minutes then went to my host channel that maps the VBI and did the VBI test and actually watched with my own eyes as my clock reset to correct time. Didn't lose any listing either.

:cool: thanks again
I can't figure out why I lost the signal in the first place, weird.

Now I'm getting listings again, but with absolutely no host channel listed. And I'm not able to receive any CBS channel from any market with the setup I'm currently using.

What gives?

Now I'm getting listings again, but with absolutely no host channel listed. And I'm not able to receive any CBS channel from any market with the setup I'm currently using.

What gives?

That happened to me, in fact my host channel was blank for about a week yet I was still getting guide data each day, each day I was checking for my host channel and then about a week later it showed up.

FROM TVGOS customer service:

Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

We will assume your issue has been resolved if we do not hear from you within 240 hours.

Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.

To update your question from our support site, click the following link or paste it into your web browser.
http://tvgos.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tvgos.cfg/php/enduser/acct_login_

Subject
---------------------------------------------------------------
Digital Transition Problem 98005:Comcast - King County


Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Jay Navarro) - 12/08/2008 11:48 AM
Our engineers have identified an issue that has been effecting different areas nationwide, your area is included in this, now that they had found the issue, they are working to correct it, this means you will get listings off and on until the final fix is implemented. You should be all set within 72 - 96 hours, if you continue having a problem by Friday contact us.

Thank You,

Customer (Dale) - 12/08/2008 11:31 AM
Any update?

I'm entirely OTA - There's a station (channel 6.1, WOWT out of Omaha) that has always been a bit weak for me (about 60 miles away), but it seems something happened about 5 weeks ago. I can no longer tune it in AT ALL with my DHG-HDD250 tuner. I've tried to re-autoprogram the channels, and it cannot find it. It comes in fine with my TV tuner. It doesn't make logical sense to me that this would have anything to do with my Sony system, but wondering if anyone else has ever experienced the Sony simply refusing to tune in channels that it used to (while being able to get them fine with the TV tuner)?

Thanks

Now I'm getting listings again, but with absolutely no host channel listed. And I'm not able to receive any CBS channel from any market with the setup I'm currently using.

What gives?

That's what happened to me before it showed 3.0 in the 753159852 menu.
It stills shows 3.0 and I have all eight days of listings with "No signal" when I switch to the channel. Go figure?

Response (Jay Navarro) - 12/08/2008 11:48 AM.
Our engineers have identified an issue that has been effecting different areas nationwide, your area is included in this, now that they had found the issue, they are working to correct it, this means you will get listings off and on until the final fix is implemented. You should be all set within 72 - 96 hours, if you continue having a problem by Friday contact us.
Thank You,
Customer (Dale) - 12/08/2008 11:31 AMWow, you must have a special touch to get them to respond to you; I've had an email in to them for several weeks now and nothing. It's nice to know that somebody's awake at the switch back at the other end of our listings, and that they have finally admitted they have a problem! (and that they can't spell "affecting" and are proficient in run-on sentences)

I'm entirely OTA - There's a station (channel 6.1, WOWT out of Omaha) that has always been a bit weak for me (about 60 miles away), but it seems something happened about 5 weeks ago. I can no longer tune it in AT ALL with my DHG-HDD250 tuner. I've tried to re-autoprogram the channels, and it cannot find it. It comes in fine with my TV tuner. It doesn't make logical sense to me that this would have anything to do with my Sony system, but wondering if anyone else has ever experienced the Sony simply refusing to tune in channels that it used to (while being able to get them fine with the TV tuner)?

Thanks

It could be the station tweaking things for the digital transition (maybe they decreased power a little when the older Sony tuner can't tune it, but a newer tuner may -- this happens to me all the time with my TV tuner vs. my Sony Tuner).

It could also be the weather conditions at the time (since it is a fringe station for you).

I know some stations in my area are playing with the power on both their analog and digital signal to get ready for 11:59.59 PM on 2/17/2009.

I have no plan to force the digital host since I see no benefit in doing so since so many others have proven it can be done. I assume my DVRs with automatically acquire the digital channel after analog channel is shut down.

Are you sure that you can tune to cable 2.1? In my area, TW cable channel, with the cable card, is 402, and without is a number like 74.645. I don't know the exact number since I tune to the OTA source.

Ray

Just to give you an update, I was finally able to force my DHG250 to take 2.1 OTA as its host channel. I doubt if the unit can acquire the digital host on its own ( in our case OTA 2.1) once analog is turned off. I followed the directions on spiff's post with one exception, I disabled auto off, and left the unit on overnight, and turned off channel 28, the previous host channel in the channel display and on the add/delete channel list.

It works! my Host is now 2.1 and my VBI channel is also 2.1 and I have eight days off TVGOS listing.

Now I'm getting listings again, but with absolutely no host channel listed. And I'm not able to receive any CBS channel from any market with the setup I'm currently using.

What gives?

Just like me. I've been getting partial to almost full listings. But last night and today I got none.

I received an e-mail from a Comcast engineer. He verified today that Comcast is not receiving any guide data from CBS. He promised to contact CBS, find out what is happening, and get back to me --- maybe by tomorrow.

That's what happened to me before it showed 3.0 in the 753159852 menu.
It stills shows 3.0 and I have all eight days of listings with "No signal" when I switch to the channel. Go figure?

When I looked at my post I thought I had made a mistake as my second 500 still shows 0-11 not 11-0 as host, however after rechecking my first 500 it does show 3-0 not 0-3 as host. I'm not sure what this means but I would have thought it would be 3-1 if it's digital. Why would it show 3-0 not 0-3 is beyond me because when it was CBS it showed 0-2?

Wow, you must have a special touch to get them to respond to you; I've had an email in to them for several weeks now and nothing. It's nice to know that somebody's awake at the switch back at the other end of our listings, and that they have finally admitted they have a problem! (and that they can't spell "affecting" and are proficient in run-on sentences)

Well, we'll see if things are fixed in the next 3 to 4 days...I'll let you all know.

I wonder if this is just a temporary fix? Hopefully not, but we shall see.

Dale

For those of you interested in TVGOS, Digital TV, & the Sony DHG-HDD250/500:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1093923

Would like to thank every contributor on this list and share my experience. My HDD250 is hooked up to Comcast cable (direct, no cable card) and OTA. Like most others, I lost listings around Thanksgiving after over 2 years of no problems with host channel 9 analog (PBS) OTA. I then:

Verified my local CBS digital channel on cable (5.1) was sending TVGOS data by using the 9012 test and leaving it on 5.1 overnight. Voila! Listings appeared, but not completely filled out.
Did the complete reset on the TVGOS system, lost all listings, scheduled recordings, and keyword searches, as expected, but kept current recordings. Host channel was now blank.
Mistakenly thought I could set the host channel by just doing the 9012 on cable 5.1 and turning it off overnight. Came back with host channel reset to 9 analog OTA and no listings but with channel data filled in. Don't know if the channel data filled in from the 9012 test on 5.1 or if it did overnight from 9.
Without anymore resets did the full approved force digital host channel procedure on cable 5.1. Next morning the host channel was set to 5.1, but OTA 5.1, not cable. (Also CBS) But the listings were filled in.
Decided not to screw with success and leave it alone. :D Things have been working OK for more than a week and the host channel has stuck so far.

But now a question - I know when I did the complete TVGOS reset the firmware must have reverted to 08.01.xx, so I must have picked up the update to 08.05.xx from the analog 9 channel even though it obviously wasn't sending any listings (it is now at 08.06.xx). What happens after the transition when there are no more analog OTA sources for any TVGOS data including firmware updates, and a full TVGOS reset happens? :eek: Am I SOL with a brick in my hand?
I suppose I could get lucky and find a cable analog channel that is still sending some TVGOS data to re-get the firmware update, but I am betting that won't happen, even if Comcast still has analog then. :(

Well I certainly won't be doing any resets on purpose...
Thanks to all again,
Jim

One solution MIGHT be to use the DTVPal you have on hand for this contingency, to get listings via the approved cecb (i.e., from a faux analog channel) until the firmware updates and you can push the unit back over to digital until the next occurrence...

PS: after the thanksgiving TVGOS screwup, things got back to normal on their own, without my doing anything to my Sony (and - as noted in a previous post - my 3410a started getting TVGOS continuously again, for the first time since May, which I don't think is just a coincidence...)

What happens after the transition when there are no more analog OTA sources for any TVGOS data including firmware updates, and a full TVGOS reset happens? :eek: Am I SOL with a brick in my hand?No. Read my post above and go to the link.

Trying this tonight, thanks for the tip.

Set my host channel up for 704 (hdtv for CBS on Cox cable) and the next day I got guide information for over the air channels. Went into setup and told it that the information was correct but the channel lineup was wrong. Next day, I got guide information that matched my cox cable lineup. I have now filled up all but the last sequence of data which I expect (hope) to get tonight.

When I look at Host Chan in menu "753... ", it shows 1:0-99 which is what it showed when I had nothing. So I don't know if it was coincidence that my guide filled up when I tried to force my Host ID to channel 704 or not.

By the way, I got the same results of getting over the air guide information when choosing the SD channel 4 for CBS too. I chose at that time to try HD channel as my next step.

The TV guide equipment installed at WMFE, channel 24 Orlando Florida stopped working about two weeks ago. Replacement equipment has been installed but it has failed to respond to modem delivered commands, preventing the loading of schedule data. Currently, the phone line is suspected and we are awaiting evaluation of the line to determine if that is where the problem exists.

I am sorry for the problems caused by this and am working with the Guide people to resolve it.

Mike Simmons
Director of Engineering and Technology
WMFE
Orlando, Fl

:cool: Heads Up to all in sunny Orlando! Mr. Simmons called me back today and informed me that the equipment had been repaired and was back up and running. I checked my Sony and WALA! The clock has finally returned after 3+ weeks without it. I assume that my channel listing will reappear tonight, along with the version updates.

Now, if we can just get the local CBS folks to get with the program, I'll be happy.

Does anyone know if there is a way to keep the version updates if a similar problem ever happens again? Or do I just need to acquire them again via feed?

:cool: ................................Does anyone know if there is a way to keep the version updates if a similar problem ever happens again? Or do I just need to acquire them again via feed?

I think that is the case........... for now. But read the posts by "Ken H" on page 441. :p

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15249950#post15249950

:cool: Heads Up to all in sunny Orlando! Mr. Simmons called me back today and informed me that the equipment had been repaired and was back up and running. I checked my Sony and WALA! The clock has finally returned after 3+ weeks without it. I assume that my channel listing will reappear tonight, along with the version updates.

Now, if we can just get the local CBS folks to get with the program, I'll be happy.

I hope all areas get fixed. Today, I had some listings fill in, but nothing for Monday-Tuesday. It seems TVGOS is trying to give us the next few days, but not days 6, 7, 8.

Meanwhile, the Comcast engineer responded with a second message last night. He knows that guide data is present in the CBS OTA signal, and he is waiting to hear back from CBS as to why the data is no longer present in the fiber direct link delivery to Comcast.

No news today, unfortunately.

I've had full, steady listings for a couple of days now - still no host channel, though. I'm using a Rockford zipcode (still never changed it back to Chicago), so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.

I hope all areas get fixed. Today, I had some listings fill in, but nothing for Monday-Tuesday. It seems TVGOS is trying to give us the next few days, but not days 6, 7, 8.

Meanwhile, the Comcast engineer responded with a second message last night. He knows that guide data is present in the CBS OTA signal, and he is waiting to hear back from CBS as to why the data is no longer present in the fiber direct link delivery to Comcast.

No news today, unfortunately.

This same basic scenario played out here in Indy. WFYI (PBS-channel 20) provides the TVGOS feed here. Some months ago, they updated their equipment that connects them to my local cable co (Brighthouse Networks) and that killed the cable-provided TVGOS. I reported the problem (the engineer at WFYI is awesome), and he escalated it up, but nothing ever got done about it... I needed to get a bow-tie antenna to get listings OTA.

I'm hopeful that after the digital transition, when WFYI starts sending them via the digital channel (they confirmed they will continue to to send them), that the encoding method will not be blocked by the equipment used to distribute the signal to the cable co.

Marc

This same basic scenario played out here in Indy. WFYI (PBS-channel 20) provides the TVGOS feed here. Some months ago, they updated their equipment that connects them to my local cable co (Brighthouse Networks) and that killed the cable-provided TVGOS. I reported the problem (the engineer at WFYI is awesome), and he escalated it up, but nothing ever got done about it... I needed to get a bow-tie antenna to get listings OTA.

I'm hopeful that after the digital transition, when WFYI starts sending them via the digital channel (they confirmed they will continue to to send them), that the encoding method will not be blocked by the equipment used to distribute the signal to the cable co.

MarcI'm not sure how much more clear I can make this.

PBS stations no longer have an agreement to carry the TVGOS data. The data will be on the CBS digital channel. The 'fix' to make this work with the Sony (and other TVGOS analog dependent devices) is being tested right now, and should soon be rolled out.

At that point, your problems will be over and the Sony will work as it did before.

PBS stations no longer have an agreement to carry the TVGOS data. The data will be on the CBS digital channel. The 'fix' to make this work with the Sony (and other TVGOS analog dependent devices) is being tested right now. I don't know how much longer the testing is scheduled for, but it shouldn't be too long.
Actually, I think that in general the PBS stations will carry the TVGOS data until February, whatever the transition date is...

As for not much longer, they were previously saying it would be ready sometime in August (i.e., the data conversion with the DTVPal), and we see how that went. But now I suspect "not much longer" may mean "by the transition date", though I hope it's at least a MONTH before, so we can do some testing, etc...

(I also hope that any fix for the Sony does NOT entail dependence on the DTVPal [though I have one, in the hope that it will serve the purpose for my LG 3410a])

PS: Ken, do your assurances arise from more specific info than others of us are able to get via the TVGOS assistance service via email...?

Actually, I think that in general the PBS stations will carry the TVGOS data until February, whatever the transition date is...
This varies by PBS station. Some have already pulled the plug.

As for not much longer, they were previously saying it would be ready sometime in August (i.e., the data conversion with the DTVPal), and we see how that went. Two different issues. The word I have is they are about ready to roll it out.

(I also hope that any fix for the Sony does NOT entail dependence on the DTVPal [though I have one, in the hope that it will serve the purpose for my LG 3410a])Again, and again, and again; the fix will make the existing analog station dependent TVGOS devices work as they were designed to and as they did previously. No other device or hardware is needed.

PS: Ken, do your assurances arise from more specific info than others of us are able to get via the TVGOS assistance service via email...?Ei yi yi. You must be kidding.

Yes, I have been told about this by those directly involved in implementing the solution.

Ken,

Thanks for your information. I will now go back to doing more important things. I have been trying every fix under the sun here in Seattle (no real sun right now anyway).

Now to go pick up that 250 sitting at the Sears scratch and dent on 1st ave.:D

Ken,

Thanks for your information. I will now go back to doing more important things.So will I.

(edited slightly...)
1 - The word I have is they are about ready to roll it out.

2 - Again, and again, and again; the fix will make the existing analog station dependent TVGOS devices work as they were designed to and as they did previously. No other device or hardware is needed.

3 - Yes, I have been told about this by those directly involved in implementing the solution.
Ken - thanks particularly for 3

1 - that is what they said via their support in July

2 - this really confuses me...they have been saying via their support that the DTVPal would be required for older TVGOS devices that now REQUIRE data via an analog signal!!! How can they get around this, especially for devices that ONLY RECEIVE ANALOG stations????

case a - Of course I understand it is possible they can in principle update the Sony so it no longer has to get current TVGOS firmware via an analog signal, in cases where the TVGOS is reset for some reason.

case b - But it seems clear they can't update a device that ONLY HAS AN ANALOG TUNER to get TVGOS data from a digital station.

case c - And on intermediate cases, such as the LG 3410a, it would seem to be quite a feat to get data from a digital station when it hasn't been designed that way...thought it would certainly be good news for me and other 3410a owners!

3 - Clarification would be appreciated (esp for cases b and c).

Thanks - Tony

Two different issues. The word I have is they are about ready to roll it out.

Again, and again, and again; the fix will make the existing analog station dependent TVGOS devices work as they were designed to and as they did previously. No other device or hardware is needed.

Could you expand on what this "fix" refers to since my Sony already receives the TVGOS schedules from the LA CBS digital station (and has done for several months now).

1 - that is what they said via their support in JulyWhat customer facing support says and what is actually happening are usually two different things. This should be no surprise to anyone.

2 - this really confuses me...they have been saying via their support that the DTVPal would be required for older TVGOS devices that now REQUIRE data via an analog signal!!! How can they get around this, especially for devices that ONLY RECEIVE ANALOG stations????You are confused. Obviously, any analog only device will not be able to do anything after 2/17/08, unless it uses an outboard digital tuner. This is where the DTVPal, and others, will come in. The part you are confused about is 'Analog dependent', which means a previously available TVGOS enabled device that has both digital and analog tuners, like the Sony DGH HDD units. If the LG you keep referring to is TVGOS enabled and has both analog and digital tuners, it would also fall into this category.

case a - Of course I understand it is possible they can in principle update the Sony so it no longer has to get current TVGOS firmware via an analog signal, in cases where the TVGOS is reset for some reason.It's not only possible in principal, it's what's in final testing right now. The reset issue will be irrelevant somewhere between the point when update is rolled out, and analog goes off the air.

case b - But it seems clear they can't update a device that ONLY HAS AN ANALOG TUNER to get TVGOS data from a digital station.Obviously.

case c - And on intermediate cases, such as the LG 3410a, it would seem to be quite a feat to get data from a digital station when it hasn't been designed that way...thought it would certainly be good news for me and other 3410a owners!Again, and again, and again, and now again....

Any previous TVGOS device that has both a digital and analog tuner will be able to see the TVGOS data from the digital CBS channel in their area. These units will function just like they were designed to when the TVGOS signal was only available from analog PBS (or other analog) channels.

End of story.

Could you expand on what this "fix" refers to since my Sony already receives the TVGOS schedules from the LA CBS digital station (and has done for several months now).

The fix will essentially make the unit 'see' the data as if it were coming from an analog station.

Can't really blame anyone for being a little confused Ken - this is what you first said:Again, and again, and again; the fix will make the existing analog station dependent TVGOS devices work as they were designed to and as they did previously. No other device or hardware is needed.You didn't specify anything about whether or not you meant devices with digital tuners also in that quote.

Can't really blame us Ken - this is what you said:

Some things should be obvious. See my posts above yours.

.... These units will function just like they were designed to when the TVGOS signal was only available from analog PBS (or other analog) channels.

End of story.

Oh, now your stating they'll work like they were designed to! Does that assumes that they ever did, or will some other miracle occur? :D (I do wish my Sony would be able to do guide-based recordings with more than 2 items in the list)

Seriously, this will be very good news when it occurs.

Can't really blame anyone for being a little confused Ken - this is what you first said:You didn't specify anything about whether or not you meant devices with digital tuners also in that quote.
my point exactly...in ordinary English the class of analog dependent INCLUDES the class of analog only...(in fact analog only TVGOS devices are probably much more numerous than devices that are both analog and digital capable, and hence dominate the class of analog dependent devices)

so I appreciate Ken clarifying this point of confusion

otherwise, as I said I am very interested in Ken's claim about the 3410a, which I think will surprise those using that thread, so I am going to post something there now about this claim (actually, the claim of those Ken is talking to, assuming they understood the difference between the Sony and 3410a in this respect...)

I always heard that v7 couldn't be updated, so I wonder about that, too.

That may be the only v7 recorder with a digital tuner though, so they may have just been talking about all the other millions of v7 HDD/DVD recorders out there in general, sans that one unique model.

I always heard that v7 couldn't be updated, so I wonder about that, too.

That may be the only v7 recorder with a digital tuner though, so they may have just been talking about all the other millions of v7 HDD/DVD recorders out there in general, sans that one unique model.
yup...it's possible - even though it contradicts everything we had heard before, and I would be happy about that!

By the way, here's the post I just made in the 3410a thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15266764&postcount=5501

hmmm...I just noticed that this kind of link takes us just to the post indicated - didn't it used to take us to that post WITHIN the thread? or has my brain faded that much more?

The fix will essentially make the unit 'see' the data as if it were coming from an analog station.

But how is this different from what the Sony already does?

otherwise, as I said I am very interested in Ken's claim about the 3410a, which I think will surprise those using that thread, so I am going to post something there now about this claim (actually, the claim of those Ken is talking to, assuming they understood the difference between the Sony and 3410a in this respect...)The info I was given contained no distinction between different versions of devices. Thus, I can't say or not if there will be a difference.

So will I.

Thanks Ken! These people don't know they should not argue with the amazing M8B. :D:D:D

I received this response to my TVGOS e-mail of 11 days ago:

"Response (Peter) - 12/10/2008 04:06 PM
We did have many host channels down for weeks, Our engineers finally caught the bug. This should now be resolved. Each download you should get todays listings, tomorrows listings, day 5 listings and day 8 listings. Please confirm you are now working."

I have only about 30% listings for days 6,7,8 today. We'll see if the fix gives me listings by tomorrow.

Still no further word from the Chicago Comcast engineer on why they are not receiving digital guide data from the CBS-HD signal.

This same basic scenario played out here in Indy. WFYI (PBS-channel 20) provides the TVGOS feed here. Some months ago, they updated their equipment that connects them to my local cable co (Brighthouse Networks) and that killed the cable-provided TVGOS. I reported the problem (the engineer at WFYI is awesome), and he escalated it up, but nothing ever got done about it... I needed to get a bow-tie antenna to get listings OTA.

I'm hopeful that after the digital transition, when WFYI starts sending them via the digital channel (they confirmed they will continue to to send them), that the encoding method will not be blocked by the equipment used to distribute the signal to the cable co.

Marc

I'm not sure how much more clear I can make this.

PBS stations no longer have an agreement to carry the TVGOS data. The data will be on the CBS digital channel. The 'fix' to make this work with the Sony (and other TVGOS analog dependent devices) is being tested right now, and should soon be rolled out.

At that point, your problems will be over and the Sony will work as it did before.


Ken, what you've said above is true in most, BUT NOT ALL, markets. Some CBS stations don't do the typical thing. Here in Indy, CBS (WISH) is known for going their own way. In a recent dispute with the local cable company, they actually pulled their signal off cable for a month, despite the rest of the country having settled the dispute long ago.

Anyway, here's a direct quote from an email the engineer at our local PBS station (WFYI):

"We will be working with PBS National Datacast and Gemstar TV Guide to install an encoder in our digital streams. I don't have a time frame yet but they do plan to continue their service with us after analog goes away."

So, I can't say from this whether or not the local CBS station has any plans to carry the TVGOS info (they are not carrying it yet), but at least in my Indianapolis market, PBS clearly does have plans for after the transition.

Marc

Thanks Ken! These people don't know they should not argue with the amazing M8B. :D:D:D

It appears some don't know that.

For those in the dark, the Magic 8 Ball is a persona I created to vet info to the forum from industry insiders, who wish to remain anonymous.

I've been doing this for years, and up to this point the M8B track record is 100% accurate.

The source for this info is 100% impeccable.

Ken, what you've said above is true in most, BUT NOT ALL, markets. Some CBS stations don't do the typical thing. Here in Indy, CBS (WISH) is known for going their own way. In a recent dispute with the local cable company, they actually pulled their signal off cable for a month, despite the rest of the country having settled the dispute long ago.

Anyway, here's a direct quote from an email the engineer at our local PBS station (WFYI):

"We will be working with PBS National Datacast and Gemstar TV Guide to install an encoder in our digital streams. I don't have a time frame yet but they do plan to continue their service with us after analog goes away."

So, I can't say from this whether or not the local CBS station has any plans to carry the TVGOS info (they are not carrying it yet), but at least in my Indianapolis market, PBS clearly does have plans for after the transition.

MarcI'm sure it's possible there may be some exceptions to who will carry the TVGOS data in a given market. I would assume if non O&O CBS station did not want to carry the TVGOS data, the PBS station could continue to carry it. I don't think we'll know for sure until the analog cutoff how that part will shake out.

Or, your local engineer hasn't been told yet TVGOS is going away from PBS.

Whatever. In the end it's not really important, as long as some station in a given TV market carries it.

But how is this different from what the Sony already does?As from above, the Sony's were designed to receive TVGOS data from analog TV stations. Once the fix is in place, they will be able to 'see' the data from a digital station as if it was from an analog station.

As from above, the Sony's were designed to receive TVGOS data from analog TV stations. Once the fix is in place, they will be able to 'see' the data from a digital station as if it was from an analog station.

What the poster meant is that the SONY already receives the TVguide data form CBS digital channels (just like it was an analog channel.) We have been doing this for close to 1 year now.

What the poster meant is that the SONY already receives the TVguide data form CBS digital channels (just like it was an analog channel.) We have been doing this for close to 1 year now.I understand, but I've been told there are significant issues, as noted previously in this topic.

I understand, but I've been told there are significant issues, as noted previously in this topic.

Hey Ken....Sorry for having gotten you involved in this whole mess....:)

I finally got a call back from Chuck at WWJ, he verified everything you told me with regard to TVGOS and their stream. Thanks again for all your rock solid info in regard to this issue....The M8Ball is infallible!

Ken, thanks for sharing. Please leave a donation at the altar of the Magic 8 Ball for me.

Mark

I received two e-mails from the Comcast engineer this afternoon regarding TVGOS data on CBS-HD 189:

*****
#1:
Phil,
CBS has bad Gemstar TV Guide unit feeding Comcast. I don’t have a date for repair. I will check back with you on Monday.
*****
#2:
Phil,
Good news, CBS was able to downgrade to a lower version of software to resolve. Everything should be fine at your home. Please let me know if this is not the case.
*****

I just checked 189. Packets are now coming in and I have FULL 8th day listings for the first time in many days.

So the problem is temporarily solved, with a permanent solution in the works.

I received two e-mails from the Comcast engineer this afternoon regarding TVGOS data on CBS-HD 189:

*****
#1:
Phil,
CBS has bad Gemstar TV Guide unit feeding Comcast. I don’t have a date for repair. I will check back with you on Monday.
*****
#2:
Phil,
Good news, CBS was able to downgrade to a lower version of software to resolve. Everything should be fine at your home. Please let me know if this is not the case.
*****

I just checked 189. Packets are now coming in and I have FULL 8th day listings for the first time in many days.

So the problem is temporarily solved, with a permanent solution in the works.This is no doubt the great bug (that has been plaguing various cities since Thanksgiving) discovered by TVGOS engineers. Since our firmware versions didn't change, it had to be a bug in the transmitting-end software (possibly overloading the memory of our version 8 devices). I'm glad to see Macrovision's at least awake at the switch, if not terribly responsive to the public or particularly fast to fix bugs.

Also, thanks to Ken for letting us know that they haven't abandoned the V7 and V8 digital devices.

Can anybody believe this??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300279612402

Wonder if the guy actually paid

Can anybody believe this??No.

Can anybody believe this??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300279612402

Wonder if the guy actually paid

I know I wouldn't pay that for one.
Question is, would I sell mine for that?
It is tempting, but, I don't know what I'd replace it with.

I know I wouldn't pay that for one.
Question is, would I sell mine for that?
It is tempting, but, I don't know what I'd replace it with.
If you were an OTA only customer, the DTVPal DVR. If you were a cable customer, the TiVo HD.

Can anybody believe this??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300279612402

Wonder if the guy actually paid

The ebay ad says the unit has "Memory Stick PRO media slot lets you enjoy digital photos and MP3 music".

I remember seeing the slot on the prototype and in early sales literature, BUT as far as I know the slot was never included on the units that eventually were produced and sold to comsumers!:confused:

If you were an OTA only customer, the DTVPal DVR. If you were a cable customer, the TiVo HD.

If the DTVPal DVR works as well as my Sony, has better tuners (and dual tuners), and, someone will pay me over $1,300 for my Sony - I guess I could part with it.

I'm not really worried about the fact that the DTVPal DVR has an ugly plastic case, my Sony and Yamaha reciever are in the basement crawl space completely out of view anyway.

If the DTVPal DVR works as well as my Sony, has better tuners (and dual tuners), and, someone will pay me over $1,300 for my Sony - I guess I could part with it.

I'm not really worried about the fact that the DTVPal DVR has an ugly plastic case, my Sony and Yamaha reciever are in the basement crawl space completely out of view anyway.

I'm buying one of these for the theater room because I can't take the audio drop outs that my Sony is plagued with. 3-4 times per hour a 1/2 second drop. Doesn't matter the output (optical, stereo, HDMI). Even backing up, the drop-out is still there.

If someone will give me half of that for my HDD250, I'll ship it to you today :)

If the DTVPal DVR works as well as my Sony, has better tuners (and dual tuners), and, someone will pay me over $1,300 for my Sony - I guess I could part with it.

I'm not really worried about the fact that the DTVPal DVR has an ugly plastic case, my Sony and Yamaha reciever are in the basement crawl space completely out of view anyway.Yeah, but how would you feel if six months after you bought it, it broke down, and you didn't have the Sony anymore? ;)

If the DTVPal DVR works as well as my Sony, has better tuners (and dual tuners), and, someone will pay me over $1,300 for my Sony - I guess I could part with it.

I'm not really worried about the fact that the DTVPal DVR has an ugly plastic case, my Sony and Yamaha reciever are in the basement crawl space completely out of view anyway.I paid $800.00 for my HDD500, so even that might not be enough to make me part with it. Not at the moment, anyway.

If the DTVPal DVR works as well as my Sony, has better tuners (and dual tuners)....Buy two, they're a comparative bargain at $250 each.

Well, we'll see if things are fixed in the next 3 to 4 days...I'll let you all know.

I wonder if this is just a temporary fix? Hopefully not, but we shall see.

Dale

Dale, looks like your info source was good. I am starting to get data again populating my TVGOS in Seattle. I hope the fix is permanent. Not sure where the packets are coming from, but they are definitely coming over cable and not OTA and I am seeing VBI packets coming across on channel 90 now.

Dale, looks like your info source was good. I am starting to get data again populating my TVGOS in Seattle. I hope the fix is permanent. Not sure where the packets are coming from, but they are definitely coming over cable and not OTA and I am seeing VBI packets coming across on channel 90 now.

I am also seeing VBI on channel 90 (our cable card pointer to analog channel 9) and my non-cable card capable RDRs are picking up time and listings soon, I hope. I am not convinced this is related to the more wide spread TVGOS issue that is reportedly being resolved in other markets as this only brings sodomojo and I on to par with what daleebob has had for a while.

Still no VBI on 107 (cable card pointer to CBS KIRO 7.1). Each of my DHGs is sporting its own Philips PHDTV1 UHF yagi and getting TVGOS data from KIRO 7.1 OTA.

Still I am happy to have PBS KCTS 9 back as a source, if only for a few more days.

If you were an OTA only customer, the DTVPal DVR. If you were a cable customer, the TiVo HD.

Cable users now have a new option for "subscription free" HD DVR.

http://moxi.com/moxi/discover_moxi_hd.jsp

After having OTA analog CBS 2 out of Chicago as my host for many years, the host has changed. My host is now OTA analog WTTW (PBS) 11 out of Chicago.

I was looking at my listings for late this morning and the detailed descriptions were not matching the matrix titles. Out of curiosity I checked to see who the host was, and found the above.

Cable users now have a new option for "subscription free" HD DVR.

http://moxi.com/moxi/discover_moxi_hd.jsp

$800 for this Moxi box and it is cable only. When the Sony launched may years ago at that price level everyone thought it was way too much. I would expect a new box with only 500GB internal HDD to be much cheaper by now. At least it is dual tuner. Notice there is no included analog tuner (but you can by a USB analog tuner).

The Sony 500 was $999.99 until around the time they actually stopped manufacturing them. It was never discounted anywhere in all that time. The 250 went for $799.99.

I can't believe the Moxi does not have ATSC.

The Sony 500 was $999.99 until around the time they actually stopped manufacturing them. It was never discounted anywhere in all that time. The 250 went for $799.99.When did Sony actually stop making them? I got my first 250 in Oct '05, for $600 from J&R (I think the 500s were listed at $800). And then I was lucky to snag a 500 from Tweeter for $250 in Feb '06.

I think Oct. '05 was right around the time I bought mine from Crutchfield (for $800 - the 250 was always generally $200.00 less, even when on sale later, so that would fit), and was the first price drop period (they actually dropped a bit more again, before the Tweeter deal). I think they were stopping making them right around that time, if not a month or two later. But they at the very least had already decided to discontinue it. It may have actually stopped production then, but I'm not positive.

By the time of the Tweeter deal, I'm pretty sure they definitely had stopped.

I spent a lot of time a couple of years ago trying to clone the HDD and/or extract the video files from my HDD500. As we all know, it ain't happening... ;)

A while back, I came across a thread for the Hauppauge HD PVR (model 1212):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1015617

This device captures HD video over component. It also captures 5.1 audio via optical SPDIF. A few weeks ago, I ordered one and started experimenting with it. My DVR was full, and I was faced with the choice of deleting content I wanted to keep, or not recording anything new...

After a fair amount of trial and error, I now have it working pretty well. The Hauppauge is able to capture excellent quality video from the Sony that (depending on the encoding rate) is *nearly* indistinguishable from the original recording. So far, I've dumped several hours of content onto my PC. Depending on the bit rate of the encoding and the length of program, content can also be archived to homebrew HD DVD or Blu Ray using DVD+R or DVD+R DL media.

The only downside is that the capture has to be done real-time, which means you'll have to play/capture each episode on your DHG individually. However, the upside far outweighs this little detail! :D

The Hauppauge DVR can be had for around $200. I have seen it as low as $180-ish. I'll answer any questions as best I can. Hope this helps some other DHG owners!

The Hauppauge DVR can be had for around $200. I have seen it as low as $180-ish. I'll answer any questions as best I can. Hope this helps some other DHG owners!
I'm not sure how YOU are using it, but I'm curious whether you or others are using it with a PC that then burns a blu-ray disk (AND of course whether the ultimate result is HD quality)..I know that good component cables will deliver HD quality TO the device, but I'm just wondering about the end result.

Thanks - Tony

Are the HDD250/500's still being sought-after ? I have two HDD250's and one HDD500 open boxes from Circuit city couple years ago.. they are sitting in my closet..I can put them on Ebay.

I'm not sure how YOU are using it, but I'm curious whether you or others are using it with a PC that then burns a blu-ray disk (AND of course whether the ultimate result is HD quality)..I know that good component cables will deliver HD quality TO the device, but I'm just wondering about the end result.

Thanks - Tony

Hi Tony,

Yes, the end result will be HD-quality video on your burned discs. I have yet to do an AVC burn for Blu-ray playback, but have made homebrew HD DVDs. The limiting factor is how much content can be fit on a disc. For example, at an encode rate of 11.5Mbit/sec (VBR), you can fit 2 hours onto a DL disc.

I understand the desire to burn discs for playback in stand-alone players. For me, I'm more concerned about backing up my DHG to hard disk. With 1TB drives readily available for under $100, and a 20-pack of DL media at $30, it's much more cost-effective (and reliable) to archive to hard drives. Then I can use the highest encoder settings without worrying about fitting something on disc. Plus, with new devices like the Western Digital HD media player, your recordings become readily portable.

Hope that helps answer your question...