Well that's a kick in the pants. TVGOS just stripped off all the Antenna versions of the Canadian stations, leaving only Cable versions. So all my HD assignments are gone and no way to assign OTA HD channels.

Well that's a kick in the pants. TVGOS just stripped off all the Antenna versions of the Canadian stations, leaving only Cable versions. So all my HD assignments are gone and no way to assign OTA HD channels.

Huh? I just checked mine and it's complete right to a week from tomorrow with my full channel list intact.

Maybe you have to beat me over the head for me to get this, but are you saying that you got your DHG back up and running with only these steps:

TV Guide -- Reset Factory Defaults (Guide version will be 8.01.42/0.00.00)
Turn unit off and then on (soft reboot)
Do 'force host channel' procedure
Turn off DHG
A few hours later (overnight?) power up DHG
DHG is now at 8.06.44.
Do 'force host channel' procedure
Turn off DHG
A few hours later (overnight?) power up DHG
DHG now has full listings.

Is that what you are saying?

BTW, I now have my full listings back, so I shouldn't have to mess with this any more.

Mark

Yes! But do it while CBS ota is transmitting the data.

Do force procedure during download time from CBS source to get software
to load.

Referring back to post #14033 that has the download schedule... does it make a difference which type of download is taking place, or will any of them do?

Huh? I just checked mine and it's complete right to a week from tomorrow with my full channel list intact.

Are you set to OTA only, cable only, or OTA/Cable? I'm set to OTA/Cable. I just reset the postal code, had it off for awhile, the channel list has been reset and EVERY channel is set to Cable and cannot be adjusted to Air (the Cable/Air "service" button is grey. Yet in the main TVGOS setup I chose YES to Antenna as well as YES to cable.

Argh!

Going to try using Barrie postal code & Horseshoe Valley Cable. I remember that combo giving a choice of Air/Cable for all channels.

Does anyone know if COX cable puts TVGOS data on a digital channel anywhere?

As I asked in an earlier post, does anyone know for sure what is transmitted during the ID27 & ID81 downloads?

PossumGirl,

Look at this link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15508515#post15508515)

They don't say for sure what each ID is, but they describe what seems to happen when each ID is transmitted.

Mark

Dave,

I didn't realize that you had lost all of your saved programming. That being the case, you should do a factory reset to restore the recorder to its default configuration. This should correct any strange state that it may have gotten into as a result of your "power event". This is the reset from the first level of the 9012 menu. After you have done this we can proceed with further diagnostics.

Yes, I lost saved programming and saved schedules and everything. I've already done the factory reset, and I've tried several of the reset procedures described here.

Right now things look promising with Frank70's procedure. I did step 4 this morning, and my firmware is now 8.01.42/8.06.44. (So it upgraded through two versions!) Still no clock. I've done steps 11 and 12, so we'll see whether I've got a clock tomorrow morning.

Dave Kristol

Hello, I've been happy with my Sony DVR for a while, but I lost KQED HD 9.1 (local PBS channel for SF Bay Area) programming sometime last week-end around 2/22. :confused: All my scheduled recording for this channel stopped working and when I look at the TV Guide and force this channel number it shows "AIR" for all the 30-minutes slots.
The problem persists after a week... :mad:
I'm still getting reception for 9.1 and getting programming data from TVGOS for analog channel 9 and other digital channels 9.2, 9.3, 9.4 etc. Only 9.1 HD programming is gone (although it's theoretically just the same as 9 in HD).
Does this have anything to do with the postponed digital transition?
Some problem with local PBS tower?
Or some other problem with my DVR I can reconfigure? I did tried to turn power off, reboot, rescan all the channels, but it didn't help... I get the signal, but no guide for 9.1... :(
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!

I'm having the exact same problem and have no idea how to fix it.

Edit your channel 9 in the menu to correspond with the guide data.

What exactly do you mean by this?

Thanks Possomgirl: I needed the digital downloads times.......now I will convert to CST

Does anyone know yet in a 100% digital environment (no analogue around at all); how long does it take for a Sony Box to change on its own from "analogue" to "digital" downloads? 2 or 3 days? or?

Also, in a 100% digital world, and you do a "full factory reset" wipe the hard disc etc. and the unit goes back to sw 00.00.00.............can the unit fully recover itself and start the digital downloads and be fully functional in 3 or 4 days with all listings; just like it does in an analogue world?

Yes, I lost saved programming and saved schedules and everything. I've already done the factory reset, and I've tried several of the reset procedures described here.

Right now things look promising with Frank70's procedure. I did step 4 this morning, and my firmware is now 8.01.42/8.06.44. (So it upgraded through two versions!) Still no clock. I've done steps 11 and 12, so we'll see whether I've got a clock tomorrow morning.

<sigh>
My optimism is tempered a bit by the fact that I do not yet have a clock or listings this morning. I'm redoing the VBI Search Channel procedure, and we'll see how that goes.

Dave Kristol

<sigh>
My optimism is tempered a bit by the fact that I do not yet have a clock or listings this morning. I'm redoing the VBI Search Channel procedure, and we'll see how that goes.

Dave Kristol

Don't fret yet Dave. Mine didn't get the clock back overnight (Thursday night/Friday morning) either when I did the procedure. But when I got home from work Friday evening the clock was back.

Mark

I'm having the exact same problem and have no idea how to fix it.



What exactly do you mean by this?

Under the setup menu, you can assign channel numbers to correspond with guide information. It's called "change channel display". If your getting for example, 9.2 guide info on 9.3 then just edit the channel to much the guide listing. This is in your owners manual.

Are you set to OTA only, cable only, or OTA/Cable? I'm set to OTA/Cable. I just reset the postal code, had it off for awhile, the channel list has been reset and EVERY channel is set to Cable and cannot be adjusted to Air (the Cable/Air "service" button is grey. Yet in the main TVGOS setup I chose YES to Antenna as well as YES to cable.

It's been a long time since the ability to switch a channel source from air to cable or cable to air was available. I think it worked way back when, but I might be wrong.

I'm set to Air & Cable, but as mentioned a bunch of messages back my 'cable' is Expressvu, so there's no actual source there for TVGOS.

I just checked the latest listings and day 8 are very, very incomplete for both sides of the border. The channel line-up in my guide however hasn't changed - everything I had set to be on is completely intact whether populated or "No listing". What's funny is there's no pattern to it. Some of the US & Canadian majors are missing listing data, as are some of the cable channels, but not all of any one type or source. For example, I have some of the US-only cable channels enabled to see if they update, 6 or 7 different HBO & Starz movie channels for instance, and only some of them are updating. To me that points right to TVGOS database problems rather than any setting we can change. My guess is that right now it's impossible to hold onto a proper digital host channel, or so it seems, since every time I "force" the host back to 9-1 I seem to get good data for 24 hours, then it drops again. Dunno, just a hunch.

Seems pretty obvious to me from posts here that the entire TVGOS system has become very unreliable and for the time being no amount of tricking the PVRs to use various settings is necessarily the magic fix.

Today is March 2, 2009 Monday. Normally (as best as I recall), the Download had always covered 8 Full days to "midnight" of the 8th day. In this case that would be midnight of Monday March 9, 2009

Here is the first hour of Day 9 Tuesday March 10, 2009. Is this new? I do not think I have ever seen this before?

Pic 6903 Mar 10th 12:35am to 1:05am
Pic 6904 Mar 10th 12:05am to 1:05am
Pic 6905 Mar 10th 11:35am to 12:35am

HoustonPerson,

I think you are just seeing the "additional" hour in the listing due to the time change this weekend.

The listings buffer is probably a fixed size in total hours (8x24). We lose an hour on Sunday - so the tailend of the buffer will show an extra hour (1am ending instead of midnight) while Sunday 3/8/09 is part of the listing.

Just a guesstimate....

Started at 08.01.42/00.00.00. BE SURE TO SOFT REBOOT after TVGOS reset.
Do force procedure during download time from CBS source to get software
to load. Once software has loaded, You will notice no guide yet.
Now force one more time and the guide will load within a few hours.
Good luck. Oh yes OTA.

I performed the start-from-a-complete-TVGOS-reset test again last night with mixed results. I was able to successfully update the software from version 08.01.42/00.00.00 to 08.01.42/8.05.40 and then from 08.01.42/8.05.40 to 08.01.42/08.06.44 without a clock, but I was unable to get the clock set or acquire a host channel despite going through several update cycles. Prior to the test, I performed a soft reset because the recorder had gotten into a strange state that I have never seen before. It lost the clock on the display panel. It had the correct time when I turned it on, but the LED display was gone. The soft reset resolved the problem. The steps and results of the test are outlined below.

First some shorthand notations:
SW = software version
HC = host channel
CSC = clock set channel
FCC = failure clock channel
Since I am OTA, all channels are preceeded by 0:

1. Turned on recorder and tuned to the local CBS digital channel.
SW=08.01.42/08.06.44, HC=0-13, CSC=0-22, FCC=0-13

2. Ran G* Test and observed that counts were increasing. Flash, VBI, and ATSC Tests all PASS.
SW=08.01.42/08.06.44, HC=0-13, CSC=fffffffd, FCC=0-13

3. Reset the TV Guide to the factory default settings. Everything reset except software.
SW=08.01.42/08.06.44, HC=blank, CSC=0-0, FCC=0-0

4. Reset the TV Guide to the factory default settings again. Software reset to default.
SW=08.01.42/00.00.00, HC=blank, CSC=0-0, FCC=0-0

5. Entered the TVGOS setup information. Set Zip Code and configuration.
SW=08.01.42/00.00.00, HC=blank, CSC=0-0, FCC=0-0

6. Disabled the Auto Off feature.
SW=08.01.42/00.00.00, HC=blank, CSC=0-0, FCC=0-0

7. Ran the G* Test, retuned the digital channel, and acquired the intermediate TVGOS software update.
SW=08.01.42/08.05.40, HC=blank, CSC=0-0, FCC=0-0

8. Ran the G* Test, retuned the digital channel, and acquired the latest TVGOS software update.
SW=08.01.42/08.06.44, HC=blank, CSC=0-0, FCC=0-0

9. Tried to force the host channel to the CBS digital channel. Performed a VBI host channel search (963214785) and left recorder on overnight. In the morning there was no clock (--:--) and no host channel. I ran a G* Test to force the clock channel. Then I retuned the channel and then ran the VBI host channel search again, this time turning the recorder off. I now have a digital clock channel, but still no clock or host channel after several update cycles. Normally at this point in the procedure I would have turned the recorder off to acquire the clock and host channel, but if I did, the recorder would have found an analog clock source in short order, set the clock, and then set the host channel. I didn't do that because I am trying to verify the claim that this can all be done over a digital channel without turning the recorder off (if I correctly understand what was written). Let me know if you see anything that you think I should have done differently.

HoustonPerson,

I think you are just seeing the "additional" hour in the listing due to the time change this weekend.

The listings buffer is probably a fixed size in total hours (8x24). We lose an hour on Sunday - so the tailend of the buffer will show an extra hour (1am ending instead of midnight) while Sunday 3/8/09 is part of the listing.

Just a guesstimate....

Ah man you spoiled it for me; I thought it was another conspiracy theory. Off to get another six pack!

The analog schedule for PST zone is exactly the same as the above EST schedule. The digital schedule is different than the analog:

Digital sched (PST)...converted from GMT in VBI Sched

12:51-1:11 AM DL#81
1:16-1:36 AM DL#27
1:41-2:01 AM DL#81
2:06-2:26 AM DL#27
2:31-3:01 AM * DL#70 Listings
3:06-4:06 AM DL#97
4:11-4:41 AM * DL#70 Listings
4:46-5:46 AM DL#97
5:51-6:11 AM DL#27
6:16-6:46 AM * DL#70 Listings
6:51-7:51 AM DL#97
7:56-8:26 AM * DL#70 Listings
8:31-9:31 AM DL#97
9:36-9:56 AM DL#81
10:01-10:31 AM * DL#70 Listings
10:36-11:36 AM DL#97
11:41-12:11 PM * DL#70 Listings
12:16-1:16 PM DL#97
1:21-1:41 PM DL#81
1:46-2:16 PM * DL#70 Listings
2:21-3:21 PM DL#97
3:26-3:56PM * DL#70 Listings
4:01-5:01 PM DL#97
5:06-5:26 PM DL#27

As I asked in an earlier post, does anyone know for sure what is transmitted during the ID27 & ID81 downloads?

A while ago cxgy posted the digital download schedule for EST and recently Possumgirl posted the digital schedule for PST, which is identical to the one posted by cxgy. It appears that this may not be a complete list of the scheduled download times, because during my recent start-from-a-complete-TVGOS-reset test the intermediate software version download occurred at a time that is not on the posted schedule. I have noticed that for some screens in the hidden menus, the recorders don't have enough space allocated to display the entire amount of data. This may be the case here. Does anyone know if Macrovision has the complete schedule posted somewhere?

PossumGirl,

Look at this link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15508515#post15508515)

They don't say for sure what each ID is, but they describe what seems to happen when each ID is transmitted.

Mark

Mark, thank you! It's hard to remember all the posts here :) and at the time that one didn't make sense to me. NOW it does and confirms, at least somewhat, what I've been documenting.

Thanks Possomgirl: I needed the digital downloads times.......now I will convert to CST



Houston, I don't know if CST download schedule is the same as EST & PST. You can check yours on the VBI DL Schedule screens in case they are different.

<sigh>
My optimism is tempered a bit by the fact that I do not yet have a clock or listings this morning. I'm redoing the VBI Search Channel procedure, and we'll see how that goes.

Dave Kristol

Dave, does your unit have the current GMT date & time yet? I know in one of your earlier posts it was 1/1/2004. Since you got back up to 08.06.44 it is probably set by now.

HoustonPerson,

I think you are just seeing the "additional" hour in the listing due to the time change this weekend.

The listings buffer is probably a fixed size in total hours (8x24). We lose an hour on Sunday - so the tailend of the buffer will show an extra hour (1am ending instead of midnight) while Sunday 3/8/09 is part of the listing.

Just a guesstimate....

I noticed the same thing yesterday. Never thought about the upcoming time change, but that makes perfect sense!

A while ago cxgy posted the digital download schedule for EST and recently Possumgirl posted the digital schedule for PST, which is identical to the one posted by cxgy. It appears that this may not be a complete list of the scheduled download times, because during my recent start-from-a-complete-TVGOS-reset test the intermediate software version download occurred at a time that is not on the posted schedule. I have noticed that for some screens in the hidden menus, the recorders don't have enough space allocated to display the entire amount of data. This may be the case here. Does anyone know if Macrovision has the complete schedule posted somewhere?

What time zone are you in? CST and MST may be different from my schedule. I took the schedule directly from my VBI DL schedule pages.

Does anyone know if COX cable puts TVGOS data on a digital channel anywhere?

My local Cox cable office has been in contact with me about this. A technician is installing the TVGOS guide equipment at our local CBS affiliate and hopes to have it up and running in a few days. Don't know at this time if it will be available over the digital version of the channel, but they have confirmed that it will be on the analog version of the channel via cable. I will report once it is up and I am getting guide information (if it is only via the analog channel of the CBS station or if it comes over the digital channel as well). I suspect that it will be only over analog for the time being. If you have Cox they have promised to keep transmitting the analog versions of local channels for the next 3 years. What region of the county are you in?

What time zone are you in? CST and MST may be different from my schedule. I took the schedule directly from my VBI DL schedule pages.

I am EST. I just finished converting the data from the recorder I am using to run my test. I came up with the exact same schedule information for the digital channel as cxgy and you. It was a little confusing at first because my recorder still has the analog schedule information stored in addition to the digital schedule. At first glance it looked like there were overlaping download periods until I realized what happened. I would have thought that a full TVGOS reset would have wiped the analog information and replaced it with the digital information. Not so. It is possible that this will happen once my test recorder gets its clock back and gets a host channel, but I wouldn't think that would matter. Does anyone else using a digital host channel have both the analog and digital download schedules stored?

I think that the download schedule is the same regardless of your time zone.

My local Cox cable office has been in contact with me about this. A technician is installing the TVGOS guide equipment at our local CBS affiliate and hopes to have it up and running in a few days. Don't know at this time if it will be available over the digital version of the channel, but they have confirmed that it will be on the analog version of the channel via cable. I will report once it is up and I am getting guide information (if it is only via the analog channel of the CBS station or if it comes over the digital channel as well). I suspect that it will be only over analog for the time being. If you have Cox they have promised to keep transmitting the analog versions of local channels for the next 3 years. What region of the county are you in?

I am in RI and when I go to (http://digitaltransition.macrovision.com/digtrans.aspx) and enter my zip 02813 Westerly COX, it says they confirm I should be getting TVGOS data. My 250 can't find the channel and the G* test gets no counts on either the PBS or CBS analog and digital channels. Our CBS channel is owned by LIN TV so that explains that part.

I am EST. I just finished converting the data from the recorder I am using to run my test. I came up with the exact same schedule information for the digital channel as cxgy and you. It was a little confusing at first because my recorder still has the analog schedule information stored in addition to the digital schedule. At first glance it looked like there were overlaping download periods until I realized what happened. I would have thought that a full TVGOS reset would have wiped the analog information and replaced it with the digital information. Not so. It is possible that this will happen once my test recorder gets its clock back and gets a host channel, but I wouldn't think that would matter. Does anyone else using a digital host channel have both the analog and digital download schedules stored?

I think that the download schedule is the same regardless of your time zone.

My recorders have both the analog and digital schedules AND they are using both! :eek: That is why my clock set channel keeps changing back and forth between the two available hosts. So despite my host channel showing as 2-1, when the units are off and not tuned to that channel, they still download from analog channel 11.

In one of your earlier posts you said you now have a digital clock set channel. Does your VBI Info screen show anything in the LastClkSet field? I thought the only way the clock channel got updated was from a clock set. Is your GMT date/time current? Does your Clocks 1 page show an offset from UTC?

It seems odd that some of us can't get clock and channel lineup digitally while others seem to have succeeded, even though we've got proven digital hosts.

It's been a long time since the ability to switch a channel source from air to cable or cable to air was available. I think it worked way back when, but I might be wrong.
Seems pretty obvious to me from posts here that the entire TVGOS system has become very unreliable and for the time being no amount of tricking the PVRs to use various settings is necessarily the magic fix.

Agreed, I still use analog hosts for our living room unit because of the unreliability (cable 13 CFTO & air 17 WNED).

I tried loading CKCO cable host - same thing, all OTA channels have only one version - cable! Tried CFTO host but with Horseshoe Valley cable, and same thing. No Air channels whatsoever (never mind ones with the ability to select Cable or Air). I'm going to switch to Buffalo zipcode and hopefully get at least some Canadian Air channels back.

Looking forward to June 13th, so that TVGOS will stabilize a bit. It takes me over an hour to re-enter all our proper OTA & QAM cable channels and reorder them (although it's a labour of love - I love these machines & TVGOS, as does my wife).

My recorders have both the analog and digital schedules AND they are using both! :eek: That is why my clock set channel keeps changing back and forth between the two available hosts. So despite my host channel showing as 2-1, when the units are off and not tuned to that channel, they still download from analog channel 11.

In one of your earlier posts you said you now have a digital clock set channel. Does your VBI Info screen show anything in the LastClkSet field? I thought the only way the clock channel got updated was from a clock set. Is your GMT date/time current? Does your Clocks 1 page show an offset from UTC?

It seems odd that some of us can't get clock and channel lineup digitally while others seem to have succeeded, even though we've got proven digital hosts.

Current information from recorder under test:
LastClkSet = 3/2/09 20:15:17
GMT date/time is current
offset from UTC = 0

Current status: no clock (--:--) and no host channel. Its been a full day at this point.

I have successfully forced this recorder to use a digital host in the past and have been able to get the channel lineup and listings digitally. However, I did it by allowing the clock to be set from an analog source. The current test is to replicate Fox200's claim that this can be done entirely using a digital channel.

If you want to force your recorder to a digital clock channel, try the following:
1. Tune to a digital channel that has TVGOS data
2. Use the 753... menu to verify that your VBI chan is set to that channel
3. Start the G* Test and let it run for a while (it has usually switched in 20-30 minutes)
4. Use the 753... menu to monitor the status of your clock set channel until it switches (I checked it every 10-15 minutes - you don't have to restart the G* Test after using the 753... menu)

My experience is that the clock set channel switches on its own much more frequently than the host channel. I have at least 4 different stations that my recorder uses for clock data. As with host channels, the recorder seems to have a strong preference for analog and doesn't usually stay on the digital channel for more than a few days before switching back to an analog channel.

HoustonPerson,

I think you are just seeing the "additional" hour in the listing due to the time change this weekend.

The listings buffer is probably a fixed size in total hours (8x24). We lose an hour on Sunday - so the tailend of the buffer will show an extra hour (1am ending instead of midnight) while Sunday 3/8/09 is part of the listing.

Just a guesstimate....Also note that although the guide doesn't normally display beyond 11:30PM of the 8th day (except in this odd circumstance), the Sony does download listings up until 4AM for the 9th day so that the end-time of shows that begin at 11:30PM or before can be determined.

Hi all-
Well I've had my Sony HDD250 about 8 months and it worked very nicely using the analog PBS station. I'm in Fort Wayne Indiana and most of the stations have stopped analog broadcast here and now my Sony doesn't show any programing ... and the time is not correct. I have tried to understand all of the techno-speak here but I'm lost as to what to do. I tried to reset the ZIP code and went to the channel listings and made sure that ALL digital OTA and CABLE (Comcast) stations were ON but overnight there was no change.

I have no idea what channel now provides TVGOS -IF ANY. How do I even start looking?? Man do I feel Stupid!

Any help or suggestions would be most welcome!

Thanks

ImTheOne - I'm having the same problems with the clock as you are, it appears. I'm OTA, and totally digital - there are no analog stations broadcasting TVGOS data in my area (Lincoln, NE). I get great VBI packet downloads from my local CBS station when I run the G* test. After a TVGOS reset (why I did the TVGOS reset, I have no idea...), I did the procedure to update the TVGOS firmware, and that worked fine (I'm now back to to 08.06.44). But I can't get a correct clock or a channel lineup. I've tried running the G* test overnight, tried unplugging the unit and then plugging it back it and leaving overnight, I've tried redoing the initial setup(putting in the zipcode..) and then turrning if off overnight, I've tried running the procedure for forcing a digital host, you name it. After the last attempt (forcing Digital Host, and then shutting it off overnight) I now have a clock, but it is wrong (about 2 hours and 10 min fast for some strange reason). So, any ideas on how to get the clock back (and a channel lineup)? BTW, I have another unit, and it is operating fine. I update the listing by periodically running the G* test.

Current information from recorder under test:
LastClkSet = 3/2/09 20:15:17
GMT date/time is current
offset from UTC = 0

Current status: no clock (--:--) and no host channel. Its been a full day at this point.



From your post and the one just made by Djrich, it sure seems like there is something that happens in the analog downloads that just ain't happening digitally. :mad::mad:

Hi all-
Well I've had my Sony HDD250 about 8 months and it worked very nicely using the analog PBS station. I'm in Fort Wayne Indiana and most of the stations have stopped analog broadcast here and now my Sony doesn't show any programing ... and the time is not correct. I have tried to understand all of the techno-speak here but I'm lost as to what to do. I tried to reset the ZIP code and went to the channel listings and made sure that ALL digital OTA and CABLE (Comcast) stations were ON but overnight there was no change.

I have no idea what channel now provides TVGOS -IF ANY. How do I even start looking?? Man do I feel Stupid!

Any help or suggestions would be most welcome!

Thanks

Go to (http://digitaltransition.macrovision.com/digtrans.aspx) and enter your zip code.

Well, I got up this morning, but the clock was still not set :mad:. I turned the unit on, and had no channel list, then I noticed that I had ads... I haven't had ads since December, so something is working. I forced the host again, and turned the unit off, and went to work. Tonight I got home, and my clock is now set :D. I should also point out that this is all from a digital host. There is no analog host here any more. I still don't have a channel list, or listings, but the listings weren't there before anyway. So now I can set some manual recordings at least.



For anyone whose clock won't set. I see people mention leaving the unit on to get the clock to set. This isn't how I did it (or how Frank70's procedure says to do it). To get the clock to set, you force the host channel, and then turn the unit off. Any time you force the host channel, you should turn the unit off, but if you run the G* Test you leave the unit on.

Mark

My recorders have both the analog and digital schedules AND they are using both! :eek: That is why my clock set channel keeps changing back and forth between the two available hosts. So despite my host channel showing as 2-1, when the units are off and not tuned to that channel, they still download from analog channel 11.

In one of your earlier posts you said you now have a digital clock set channel. Does your VBI Info screen show anything in the LastClkSet field? I thought the only way the clock channel got updated was from a clock set. Is your GMT date/time current? Does your Clocks 1 page show an offset from UTC?

It seems odd that some of us can't get clock and channel lineup digitally while others seem to have succeeded, even though we've got proven digital hosts.

The only time the clock set channel has been digital for me is when I've had a digital host. So either both are digital channels or, more often, the host is digital and the clock is analog. The clock channel changes sometimes even when the host does not.

Lately, the CBS digital host has been undependable and the unit keeps reverting back to analog.

If you are correct that the Sony gets data from analog hosts even when the host is shown as digital, a lot of what we think we have learned here is not true.

...snip...

If you are correct that the Sony gets data from analog hosts even when the host is shown as digital, a lot of what we think we have learned here is not true.

Yeah, that concerns me a bit too.:) I know I can get listings digitally as I've done so for the occasional day 8 that has "no listings". Plus, when digital listings are being transmitted, I can see the various packet counts incrementing. But overnight or any time my units are off, they're using the analog downloads because the LastDLStart time matches the analog schedule.

I found this in the original resource page at Spiff's. (emphasis added)


The "VBI Search Current Channel" code: (Note: This code was previously referred to as the "Force Host Channel" code, but it was brought to my attention that this wasn't actually what it does.) This diagnostic code appears to "force" the unit to search for (and download) VBI data on a channel of your choosing. This can then lead to the correct establishment of your host channel. This can be useful in situations when there are multiple host stations in a particular area, and you want to set the system to use the strongest station. WARNING: This should only be used during initial setup, or when the guide info has been completely reset. The host channel must be BLANK, as reported in the "753..." menu above. Unexpected results can occur if the system already has a host channel and this code is used.

Thanks for the link... it only says that Comcast should be providing TVGOs but doesnt tell me what channel .... hummmm

Dave, does your unit have the current GMT date & time yet? I know in one of your earlier posts it was 1/1/2004. Since you got back up to 08.06.44 it is probably set by now.

It did not have a time set this morning, but now I have GMT date/time (I assume you mean in the System-System Info display) and a time display on the DHG.

However, I do not have a Host Channel or listings, but I do have ads (whoopee!). So I'm trying these steps:

- Tune to digital host channel, do G* test
- Do channel up, then channel down.
- Do 963214785 VBI Search Current Channel
- Turn off and wait...

Does anyone else feel like maybe we should be slaughtering a goat and looking at the entrails? I mean, this sure seems like a lot of hocus-pocus.

And I'll ask my question again -- Has anyone tried to contact TVGOS to ask whether they have a procedure they think works?

Dave Kristol

Go to (http://digitaltransition.macrovision.com/digtrans.aspx) and enter your zip code.
As far as I can tell, this is wholly unreliable with respect to OTA TVGOS...

I found this in the original resource page at Spiff's. (emphasis added)

I don't know if anyone ever said what those "unexpected results" might be. That might have just been a general disclaimer. The VBI Search worked the very first time for me --- without a blank host --- and the digital host stuck for months with nearly flawless performance. Things changed when TVGOS started messing around last November, I assume due to the upcoming transition. Now all bets are off. Sometimes it works when the host is not blank and does not work when it is blank. Very inconsistent behavior.

And every time I decide to just let it be and use the analog host until it's shut down for good, THAT transmission soon has problems.

A guy in TVGOS operations swears that the Sony is not certified to work with a digital host, and that Sony long ago had a chance to work with them on certification but ignored the offer. Obviously, many of us have seen that the Sony does work digitally. But here is another worry: Maybe TVGOS has had to implement recent changes for the transition that will be fine for "certified" devices, but not for the DHG. I hope that's not the case. Both analog AND digital guide data have been so unreliable for the last 3+ months that I think TVGOS has a lot of issues (understatement of the year!), and we'll be OK when the dust clears.

As much as I like to fiddle with electronics, I'm beginning to resent this DVR taking over my life. That Tivo HD is beginning to look pretty good...

Thanks for the link... it only says that Comcast should be providing TVGOs but doesnt tell me what channel .... hummmm

If your CBS channel is owned by CBS that is certain to be the one. While tuned to your CBS channel enter (MENU) then (SCREEN MODE) then 9,0,1,2 move down to T V GUiDE enter (G* Factory Test). If the VBI counts do not increment you are not on a channel supporting TVGOS.

I performed the start-from-a-complete-TVGOS-reset test again last night with mixed results. I was able to successfully update the software from version 08.01.42/00.00.00 to 08.01.42/8.05.40 and then from 08.01.42/8.05.40 to 08.01.42/08.06.44 without a clock, but I was unable to get the clock set or acquire a host channel despite going through several update cycles. Prior to the test, I performed a soft reset because the recorder had gotten into a strange state that I have never seen before. It lost the clock on the display panel. It had the correct time when I turned it on, but the LED display was gone. The soft reset resolved the problem. The steps and results of the test are outlined below.

First some shorthand notations:
SW = software version
HC = host channel
CSC = clock set channel
FCC = failure clock channel
Since I am OTA, all channels are preceeded by 0:

1. Turned on recorder and tuned to the local CBS digital channel.
SW=08.01.42/08.06.44, HC=0-13, CSC=0-22, FCC=0-13

2. Ran G* Test and observed that counts were increasing. Flash, VBI, and ATSC Tests all PASS.
SW=08.01.42/08.06.44, HC=0-13, CSC=fffffffd, FCC=0-13

3. Reset the TV Guide to the factory default settings. Everything reset except software.
SW=08.01.42/08.06.44, HC=blank, CSC=0-0, FCC=0-0

4. Reset the TV Guide to the factory default settings again. Software reset to default.
SW=08.01.42/00.00.00, HC=blank, CSC=0-0, FCC=0-0

5. Entered the TVGOS setup information. Set Zip Code and configuration.
SW=08.01.42/00.00.00, HC=blank, CSC=0-0, FCC=0-0

6. Disabled the Auto Off feature.
SW=08.01.42/00.00.00, HC=blank, CSC=0-0, FCC=0-0

7. Ran the G* Test, retuned the digital channel, and acquired the intermediate TVGOS software update.
SW=08.01.42/08.05.40, HC=blank, CSC=0-0, FCC=0-0

8. Ran the G* Test, retuned the digital channel, and acquired the latest TVGOS software update.
SW=08.01.42/08.06.44, HC=blank, CSC=0-0, FCC=0-0

9. Tried to force the host channel to the CBS digital channel. Performed a VBI host channel search (963214785) and left recorder on overnight. In the morning there was no clock (--:--) and no host channel. I ran a G* Test to force the clock channel. Then I retuned the channel and then ran the VBI host channel search again, this time turning the recorder off. I now have a digital clock channel, but still no clock or host channel after several update cycles. Normally at this point in the procedure I would have turned the recorder off to acquire the clock and host channel, but if I did, the recorder would have found an analog clock source in short order, set the clock, and then set the host channel. I didn't do that because I am trying to verify the claim that this can all be done over a digital channel without turning the recorder off (if I correctly understand what was written). Let me know if you see anything that you think I should have done differently.

Ahhh....
1. I never claimed this could be done without turning off the recorder.
2. You have to turn off the recorder to obtain the digital HC and CSC.
3. Don't assume that the recorder will select an analog host as in my
case both of my units did not.

Attension ebay buyers read the proceeding posts

Ahhh....
1. I never claimed this could be done without turning off the recorder.
2. You have to turn off the recorder to obtain the digital HC and CSC.
3. Don't assume that the recorder will select an analog host as in my
case both of my units did not.

Not an assumption, merely an observation. We all know that these recorders prefer analog channels to digital. I have at least 3 analog channels and one digital in my area. Whenever I am able to force a digital channel, it usually reverts to analog within a week or so. Whenever I perform the procedure to force a digital host and turn the recorder off, it almost always acquires time from an analog channel within 5-10 minutes. The only way to attempt a fully digital recovery in this area is to leave the recorder on and tuned to the digital channel or force a digital clock channel. As you can see from my previous posts and those of others, this doesn't always work.

From the increasing number of posts from people who have reset their recorders (or had them reset on their own) it is evident that reacquiring the clock in a strictly digital environment is problematic at best and doesn't work at all in some cases. This was my concern from the begining. Many of us have successfully forced digital host channels and downloaded both linups and listings. Some of us have even used digital clock channels. But it appears that at least in some areas of the country, losing your clock channel is a hugh problem if there is no analog time source.

More strangeness. I got tired of waiting for the clock to update and decided to try something else. I started with a soft reset, which immediately got a clock with incorrect time. Much to my surprise, when I started exploring the effect the reset had on the settings in the hidden menus, I discovered that the software version had reset to 08.01.42/00.00.00. I have never seen this happen before with a front panel soft reset.

Also, both recorders are now using digital 9.1 as a clock set channel and I have had no trouble getting time from the digital channel on the second machine despite all of the problems I am experiencing getting the clock set from the digital channel on the recorder I am using for testing. I'm still trying to prove that a recovery from a full reset can be accomplished in a strictly digital environment.

Going to try using Barrie postal code & Horseshoe Valley Cable. I remember that combo giving a choice of Air/Cable for all channels.

Today (Tues. 3rd) I'm back to full OTA and cable listings for both sides of the border right through to next Wednesday at 12AM. I haven't touched settings since Saturday. That makes me certain the data stream isn't reliable...

I don't know if anyone ever said what those "unexpected results" might be. ...


Well "lock-ups" on heavy use will be one! Which only the "full" factory reset would cure for me. Keep in mind the environment here is "interim transition" we are far away from pure digital environment in Houston.

I am still about 95% confident it will work in a 100% pure digital environment; really will not know until the end of June, at the earliest.

Not an assumption, merely an observation. We all know that these recorders prefer analog channels to digital. I have at least 3 analog channels and one digital in my area. Whenever I am able to force a digital channel, it usually reverts to analog within a week or so. Whenever I perform the procedure to force a digital host and turn the recorder off, it almost always acquires time from an analog channel within 5-10 minutes. The only way to attempt a fully digital recovery in this area is to leave the recorder on and tuned to the digital channel or force a digital clock channel. As you can see from my previous posts and those of others, this doesn't always work.

From the increasing number of posts from people who have reset their recorders (or had them reset on their own) it is evident that reacquiring the clock in a strictly digital environment is problematic at best and doesn't work at all in some cases. This was my concern from the begining. Many of us have successfully forced digital host channels and downloaded both linups and listings. Some of us have even used digital clock channels. But it appears that at least in some areas of the country, losing your clock channel is a hugh problem if there is no analog time source.

Agreed

More strangeness. I got tired of waiting for the clock to update and decided to try something else. I started with a soft reset, which immediately got a clock with incorrect time. Much to my surprise, when I started exploring the effect the reset had on the settings in the hidden menus, I discovered that the software version had reset to 08.01.42/00.00.00. I have never seen this happen before with a front panel soft reset.

Also, both recorders are now using digital 9.1 as a clock set channel and I have had no trouble getting time from the digital channel on the second machine despite all of the problems I am experiencing getting the clock set from the digital channel on the recorder I am using for testing. I'm still trying to prove that a recovery from a full reset can be accomplished in a strictly digital environment.

Ahhhh

It did not have a time set this morning, but now I have GMT date/time (I assume you mean in the System-System Info display) and a time display on the DHG.

However, I do not have a Host Channel or listings, but I do have ads (whoopee!). So I'm trying these steps:

- Tune to digital host channel, do G* test
- Do channel up, then channel down.
- Do 963214785 VBI Search Current Channel
- Turn off and wait...

Dave Kristol

My box is at this exact same step (with ads, the newest firmware, and a visible but incorrect clock and no listings yet). I came from a TVGos reset and am on fios with no analog channels and no OTA. I've gotten this far over the past three days kind of following along what dave and others have been doing and repeating the same process. However, I only really have the Sony running as a backup to my tivo currently so can do experiments if people want me to try anything. Currently it doesn't show a host channel in the 753 menu. My host is 9.1 cbs, which passes the VBI test.

ImTheOne - I have a stupid question - you keep referring to the "clock channel"..what is that? How do I check this? I know how to check my host channel, but not sure what field is the "clock channel". Thanks

More strangeness. I got tired of waiting for the clock to update and decided to try something else. I started with a soft reset, which immediately got a clock with incorrect time. Much to my surprise, when I started exploring the effect the reset had on the settings in the hidden menus, I discovered that the software version had reset to 08.01.42/00.00.00. I have never seen this happen before with a front panel soft reset.

This is also how I finally got a clock yesterday. I'd gotten to the 08.01.42/08.06.44 point and still had --:-- (although in the 753 menu I was showing the correct date). When I got home from work last night I did a soft reboot (exit and TV Guide, right?). After that, I turned the sony on and then it rebooted on it's own once. Then I had a clock (although the clock was off by about 3 hours and several minutes). I then did the force digital host and left it off overnight. This morning the host channel was still blank although i was still at 08.06.44 in the 753 menu. I also now had ads instead of double pane TV Guide instructions. I did the force digital host proceedure, turning it off and left for work. My clock still has not set correctly.

As I said before. I'm willing to be a guinea pig with this if anyone wants me to try any specific steps. While I'm not all digital OTA, it's maybe similar since fios passes the PSIP info correctly for my local channels (I'm not using a cable card so only use this for local on fios).

Here's the latest chapter of my saga.

I reported last night that I had finally got a correct clock, but no channel listings. The same applies this morning. The Host Channel is still not set.

I did the G* test on 2-1 (CBS) and 13-1 (PBS), and both show packets being received. I've tried setting the VBI Search Channel yet again (to 13-1). We'll see tonight whether that had any effect.

Dave Kristol

After several months of perfect day after day downloads, two consecutive nights of no data on Cablevision in the NY area.

Addendum: Data returned after two days off.

Here's the latest chapter of my saga.

I reported last night that I had finally got a correct clock, but no channel listings. The same applies this morning. The Host Channel is still not set.

I did the G* test on 2-1 (CBS) and 13-1 (PBS), and both show packets being received. I've tried setting the VBI Search Channel yet again (to 13-1). We'll see tonight whether that had any effect.

Dave Kristol

Dave,

I notice you are in NYC area and are heavily involved in this TVGOS nonsense.

Do you happen to know if WNET Analog 13 is still transmitting analog TVGOS data?

Just to address some fears about this recorder...

When the G* test and the "Set VBI Current Channel" procedures (do a search in this forum for the specifics) are followed, this recorder will work with digital only channels...including the updating of the firmware and program guides. I have successfully, after a power failure that for some reason reset my firmware version to the factory 8.01.??, have had the firmware updated to 8.05.40 and then to 8.06.44 then next day. I have full channel listings. And, even though knowledge has it that tvgos updates "today, tomorrow, and next week" I have had my program guide update "completely" overnight. It actually appears to be working better than before the transition.

By the way...when running the G* test while tuned to our digital CBS station, after a power failure, the clock immediately sets to the correct time.

I have no analog stations turned on, my pbs station dropped out 2 months ago, and all is well with the world. Just FYI, our digital station is 13.1 WMAZ, Macon, GA.

ImTheOne - I have a stupid question - you keep referring to the "clock channel"..what is that? How do I check this? I know how to check my host channel, but not sure what field is the "clock channel". Thanks

Questions aren't stupid unless you keep asking the same one over and over again.

These recorders use more than one channel to acquire the information they need. Most information such as the software updates, channel lineup, and channel listings come over the host channel. However time information can come from another source, hence the clock channel. In many cases they are one and the same physical channel, but they can be different physical channels. Look at the last entry on the Section Other-Clocks 2 screen for your clock channel information (Clock Set Chan).

By the way...when running the G* test while tuned to our digital CBS station, after a power failure, the clock immediately sets to the correct time.


Mine is not doing this with 9.1 on fios in Arlington, VA. I've left the G* test running many times in the last few days and 2x since getting the box back up to 08.06.44. VBI packets go up but the clock is not setting itself.

I think that before resetting my unit this would work for me but since I went through the channel scan proceedure to clear all channels, the TVGos factory reset, and then brought it back up to the current firmware, my clock is not setting during a G* test. Maybe it will tonight. Who knows. It seems that every time something goes wrong with this box, it suddenly starts working for no apparent reason just when I'm about to give up.

I've never left the G* test running. I have run it twice in a row before I'd get a PASS on the VBI test results. I've seen in other posts where people have had to do a channel up or down after running the G* test for their clocks to change. Mine has changed by running the G* test successfully and then simply exiting from that menu.

You mention the machine rebooting by itself. Mine did that as well when I had both analog and digital stations active in the channel list. I re-did the channel scan (once with my antenna disconnected to remove all stations and then again with the antenna reconnected to repopulate the stations) and removed (unchecked) any analog stations in the list. Then I tuned to the digital CBS station, ran the G* test again, and did the "Set VBI Current Channel" just to be sure it "knew" where I wanted it to get it's information from. So, I have NO Analog stations defined on my box and it has been working great since.

Just to address some fears about this recorder...

When the G* test and the "Set VBI Current Channel" procedures (do a search in this forum for the specifics) are followed, this recorder will work with digital only channels...including the updating of the firmware and program guides. I have successfully, after a power failure that for some reason reset my firmware version to the factory 8.01.??, have had the firmware updated to 8.05.40 and then to 8.06.44 then next day. I have full channel listings. And, even though knowledge has it that tvgos updates "today, tomorrow, and next week" I have had my program guide update "completely" overnight. It actually appears to be working better than before the transition.

By the way...when running the G* test while tuned to our digital CBS station, after a power failure, the clock immediately sets to the correct time.

I have no analog stations turned on, my pbs station dropped out 2 months ago, and all is well with the world. Just FYI, our digital station is 13.1 WMAZ, Macon, GA.

No one has said that these recorders won't work in a digital only environment, only that you may not be able to recover from certain types of resets in a digital-only environment. If you didn't revert to the default software state (08.01.42/00.00.00), lose your clock completely (--:--), and recover using only a digital channel, then you haven't proved that you can recover in a digital-only environment.

First, the "today, tomorrow, and next week" is the analog mechanism for updates. Digital updates can be obtained an entire 8-days at a time.

Second, if your clock reset to the correct time immediately, you didn't do a full reset since a full reset wipes out your Zip Code and time zone information and the recorder needs the time zone information to set the clock correctly.

Third, just because you have no analog stations turned on doesn't mean that you aren't receiving data over analog channels. This includes time data. Turning the analog stations off in the Edit CH +/- List menu only prevents them from being tuned when you press the channel up/down button and turning them off in the Channel Editor only prevents the listings from being displayed in your channel lineup. Neither prevents your recorder from receiving and processing data over an analog channel.

If you have been following the posts, you will have noticed that some who have followed the procedures exactly have not been successful and some of us who are doing extensive testing have discovered that there are certain conditions in which these procedures do not work. We are still looking for the series of actions that work under all circumstances.

Looks like I hit a nerve...

Just for clarification...I was not being specific, since for me to describe every step I took to reset my machine would take up an entire page on this post. I have followed this post and have followed the procedures exactly. I know I may be listed as a New Member, but joined in July specifically for this forum (which is before October on any calendar).

My point is this...
Many are fearful that these will not work in a digital only environment. I did not state that any said that they WON'T.

I have in the past done a full reset. I am currently using only digital stations. And this machine will update from 8.01.?? firmware version using a digital host channel.

As far as turning stations on or off from the channel menu, the last channel scan did not even include what used to be my analog TVGOS download station. It had already stopped broadcasting..so for the last update, I had only the digital station transmitting the TVGOS data.

Finally, the G* test IS testing the currently tuned channel. When I ran that test after a power failure my clock became set to the correct time.

I've never left the G* test running. I have run it twice in a row before I'd get a PASS on the VBI test results. I've seen in other posts where people have had to do a channel up or down after running the G* test for their clocks to change. Mine has changed by running the G* test successfully and then simply exiting from that menu.

You mention the machine rebooting by itself. Mine did that as well when I had both analog and digital stations active in the channel list. I re-did the channel scan (once with my antenna disconnected to remove all stations and then again with the antenna reconnected to repopulate the stations) and removed (unchecked) any analog stations in the list. Then I tuned to the digital CBS station, ran the G* test again, and did the "Set VBI Current Channel" just to be sure it "knew" where I wanted it to get it's information from. So, I have NO Analog stations defined on my box and it has been working great since.

Getting a PASS on the VBI Test portion of the G* Test is totally unnecessary if the counts are increasing. Also, you can restart the test while it is running by pressing 2. If you restart the test the VBI Test will pass, but the other tests that said PASS will now say FAIL.

Scanning the channels with your antenna disconnected is totally unnecessary. A complete channel scan discards all channels stored in memory and replaces them with the channels currently being scanned. Only the Auto Add option adds channels to those already in memory.

Running the "Set VBI Current Channel" while tuned to a specific channel is no guarantee that your host channel will be set to that channel, it only greatly increases the chances that it will.

Turning off analog stations in the menus does not prevent your recorder from receiving them or from processing the information that it receives from them.

Macrovision is selling the TV Guide channel and TV Guide On Line (TVGOS) to Lionsgate Entertainment. (http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-macrovision-backtracks-on-tv-guide-network-sale-to-one-equity-partners-/) This TV Guide channel is on most cable systems on an analog channel (COX I’m sure of). I don’t understand why Macrovision didn’t put TVGOS on this channel and solved all cable related TVGOS problems for equipment that tunes just analog and equipment which handles both digital or analog. I hope Lionsgate will do this.

Looks like I hit a nerve...
Just for clarification...I was not being specific, since for me to describe every step I took to reset my machine would take up an entire page on this post.

My point is this...
I have in the past done a full reset. I am currently using only digital stations. And this machine will update from 8.01.?? firmware version using a digital host channel. The last channel scan did not even include what used to be my analog TVGOS download station. It had already stopped broadcasting..so for the last update, I had only the digital station transmitting the TVGOS data. I apologize for offending your expertise, seeing as you appear to know more than the rest of us about these devices.

No nerve hit. You've made some assertions that aren't supported with facts and your generalized account of what you have done makes it clear that it doesn't apply to those currently experiencing problems reseting their recorders in a digital-only environment.

I have shared my experience, which hopefully will help others. Trying to argue against my experience is irrelevant, since it is what it is. It's a good thing we dummies have you experts to help us out with our misinformation. Thank you.

Just to address some fears about this recorder...

When the G* test and the "Set VBI Current Channel" procedures (do a search in this forum for the specifics) are followed, this recorder will work with digital only channels...including the updating of the firmware and program guides. I have successfully, after a power failure that for some reason reset my firmware version to the factory 8.01.??, have had the firmware updated to 8.05.40 and then to 8.06.44 then next day. I have full channel listings. And, even though knowledge has it that tvgos updates "today, tomorrow, and next week" I have had my program guide update "completely" overnight. It actually appears to be working better than before the transition.

By the way...when running the G* test while tuned to our digital CBS station, after a power failure, the clock immediately sets to the correct time.

I have no analog stations turned on, my pbs station dropped out 2 months ago, and all is well with the world. Just FYI, our digital station is 13.1 WMAZ, Macon, GA.


Has 100% analogue stopped in your area?

Is your digital channel CBS 13-1 on RF 13 or RF 4?

Has the clock stayed 100% accurate?

This is also how I finally got a clock yesterday. I'd gotten to the 08.01.42/08.06.44 point and still had --:-- (although in the 753 menu I was showing the correct date). When I got home from work last night I did a soft reboot (exit and TV Guide, right?). After that, I turned the sony on and then it rebooted on it's own once. Then I had a clock (although the clock was off by about 3 hours and several minutes). I then did the force digital host and left it off overnight. This morning the host channel was still blank although i was still at 08.06.44 in the 753 menu. I also now had ads instead of double pane TV Guide instructions. I did the force digital host proceedure, turning it off and left for work. My clock still has not set correctly.

As I said before. I'm willing to be a guinea pig with this if anyone wants me to try any specific steps. While I'm not all digital OTA, it's maybe similar since fios passes the PSIP info correctly for my local channels (I'm not using a cable card so only use this for local on fios).

Chip,

I am in the DC Metro area also. I have been doing a lot of testing recently on how to recover from a complete reset using only digital sources. Hopefully, some of my results will be of use to you. Currently I am using one of my two OTA 250s to run these tests. You may have read some of my previous posts, but to summarize, updating from default software to intermediate to lastest software is not a problem, even without a clock. Also, forcing a digital clock channel is not a problem. Obtaining GMT from the digital source is not a problem. Getting the TVGOS time and panel clock to set correctly is not a problem using an analog time source, but is problematic using a digital time source (haven't done it yet with correct time). Forcing a digital host channel is not a problem with a valid clock, but I haven't been able to do it yet without a clock. If I am successful in figuring out a procedure, I'll pass it along to you to replicate the results.

HoustonPerson,

The digital CBS station is 13.1. However, they are broadcasting on a frequency of 4. My digital host channel shows up as 4.0 on the PVR. However I do not have 4.0 as a physical channel. They do still broadcast their analog station; but they have never sent TVGOS data over the analog signal. I've done all my tests and set vbi channel while tuned to 13.1. They are the last holdout and plan on analog cutoff middle of this month. And, yes, the clock has stayed accurate. Upon the power failure at my home, however, I did not wait for my clock to just come back...I ran the G* test and it reset itself to the correct time immediately. That's been my experience.

Getting the TVGOS time and panel clock to set correctly is not a problem using an analog time source, but is problematic using a digital time source (haven't done it yet with correct time). Forcing a digital host channel is not a problem with a valid clock, but I haven't been able to do it yet without a clock.

This is where my machine is stuck. I'll keep trying to force the host morning and night but if you say it won't take without a valid clock then I need to focus on getting my time to set. If I do a VBI test or force the host during one of the specific download times maybe this will help? Does anyone know the best time (digital downloads, EST) to do this?

More strangeness. I got tired of waiting for the clock to update and decided to try something else. I started with a soft reset, which immediately got a clock with incorrect time. Much to my surprise, when I started exploring the effect the reset had on the settings in the hidden menus, I discovered that the software version had reset to 08.01.42/00.00.00. I have never seen this happen before with a front panel soft reset.



Another thing I forgot to mention: The download schedule is completely blank. Never seen that before either.

If your CBS channel is owned by CBS that is certain to be the one. While tuned to your CBS channel enter (MENU) then (SCREEN MODE) then 9,0,1,2 move down to T V GUiDE enter (G* Factory Test). If the VBI counts do not increment you are not on a channel supporting TVGOS.

Thanks ARNJOHN- I spent an hour going thru every digital channel (OTA and Caable) as you described above and found NONE that showed any VBI count....at least anything that I recognized as a count. I tried the CBS analog (cable) as well with nothing. I do have the clock but it is about 40 minutes slow. I have NO listings in TVGOS.

Is there a MASTER tutorial on what all of the codes mean and how to intiate them? Like soft reboot vs. hard reset etc?

Thanks!

Hate2sleep, make sure you let the VBI test go for 20 seconds. Sometimes it takes that long to register the packets the first time (on mine it is usually about 18 seconds the first time).

Just to address some fears about this recorder...

When the G* test and the "Set VBI Current Channel" procedures (do a search in this forum for the specifics) are followed, this recorder will work with digital only channels...including the updating of the firmware and program guides. I have successfully, after a power failure that for some reason reset my firmware version to the factory 8.01.??, have had the firmware updated to 8.05.40 and then to 8.06.44 then next day. I have full channel listings. And, even though knowledge has it that tvgos updates "today, tomorrow, and next week" I have had my program guide update "completely" overnight. It actually appears to be working better than before the transition.

By the way...when running the G* test while tuned to our digital CBS station, after a power failure, the clock immediately sets to the correct time.

I have no analog stations turned on, my pbs station dropped out 2 months ago, and all is well with the world. Just FYI, our digital station is 13.1 WMAZ, Macon, GA.

Did you run the G* test after the power failure or did your info download without any action on your part?

I ran it after the power failure because I tend to be an impatient person when waiting for a device to do it's thing. I probably waited 45 minutes to see if I'd get the clock back before deciding to just power it on (which set the clock to the incorrect power failure time) and run the G* test. I figured it would be no more work than resetting all my other clocks in the house.

HoustonPerson,

The digital CBS station is 13.1. However, they are broadcasting on a frequency of 4. My digital host channel shows up as 4.0 on the PVR. However I do not have 4.0 as a physical channel. They do still broadcast their analog station; but they have never sent TVGOS data over the analog signal. I've done all my tests and set vbi channel while tuned to 13.1. They are the last holdout and plan on analog cutoff middle of this month. And, yes, the clock has stayed accurate. Upon the power failure at my home, however, I did not wait for my clock to just come back...I ran the G* test and it reset itself to the correct time immediately. That's been my experience.

Good, maybe it will work here the end of June. Thanks.

Oh yes, does your clock channel and backup clock channel also show 4.0? Or are those two lines blank?

This is where my machine is stuck. I'll keep trying to force the host morning and night but if you say it won't take without a valid clock then I need to focus on getting my time to set. If I do a VBI test or force the host during one of the specific download times maybe this will help? Does anyone know the best time (digital downloads, EST) to do this?

I'm not claiming you can't force a digital host channel without a clock, only that I haven't been successful in doing this in many attempts. Cxgy and Possumgirl have posted digital download schedules several pages of posts back (maybe 5-20). I don't think it matters when you initiate the search, I have tried at various points in the download schedule and let it run from there. If all you are interested in is getting your recorder to work again, you can temporarily hook up rabbit ears and get your clock from one of the analog channels. After you have a clock, you shouldn't have a problem forcing a host channel. If, however, you are like me and want to find a solution for this in the event it occurs post-analog, then keep trying for the host force.

HoustonPerson,

Here's where I must admit that I have never looked at the "clock channel" or "backup clock channel" but I will look at it when I get home tonight. I just believe that since running the G* test while tuned to 13.1 and that fixing the clock it must be getting that data from that channel. (I may be wrong...but will check on it.)

Called the wife to have her check on it for me.
She says the "Clock Set Channel" is 0:4-1 -- which is still the local CBS digital frequency.

Thanks ARNJOHN- I spent an hour going thru every digital channel (OTA and Caable) as you described above and found NONE that showed any VBI count....at least anything that I recognized as a count. I tried the CBS analog (cable) as well with nothing. I do have the clock but it is about 40 minutes slow. I have NO listings in TVGOS.

Is there a MASTER tutorial on what all of the codes mean and how to intiate them? Like soft reboot vs. hard reset etc?

Thanks!

One interesting place to look is (http://home1.gte.net/res18h39/tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/techfaq.html#DiagMode).

Thanks again ARNJOHN- Wow ..what a link! Excellent information...unfortunately I contacted COMCAST here (46835) and they are a bunch of idiots! From what I can findout, they are not and will not be carrying the TVGOs on any channel. Is there a way someone could capture a picture of what the screen should look like when you get a channel that has VBI data on it? I have not found anything that looks like a 'count' under the G* trick.

Dave,

I notice you are in NYC area and are heavily involved in this TVGOS nonsense.

Do you happen to know if WNET Analog 13 is still transmitting analog TVGOS data?

I do not know. But when I tried using 13 (as opposed to 13-1) or 2 (as opposed to 2-1) I did not get VBI packets. (FWIW, I'm on Comcast cable.)

Dave Kristol

[...]These recorders use more than one channel to acquire the information they need. Most information such as the software updates, channel lineup, and channel listings come over the host channel. However time information can come from another source, hence the clock channel. In many cases they are one and the same physical channel, but they can be different physical channels. Look at the last entry on the Section Other-Clocks 2 screen for your clock channel information (Clock Set Chan).

Hmmm. You imply that all the information comes over the (or a) host channel. With some effort I've succeeded in getting software updates and a correct clock. The clock channel is 13-1, so evidently I'm getting clock info via a digital channel. However, my Host Channel is still reported as blank, and I am still without channel listings. Does that square with your statement above?

Dave Kristol

Is there a way someone could capture a picture of what the screen should look like when you get a channel that has VBI data on it? I have not found anything that looks like a 'count' under the G* trick.

There are three places that I know of that show TVGOS data. The first and easiest is when running the G* Test the counts in first line of numbers will increase. The second and third are in the 753... screens after you have started and exited a G* Test. Go to the Section ATSC-ATSC Slicer screen and observe that the TVG count is increasing and/or go to the Section Reception-Slicing 2 screen and observe that the count(s) are increasing (probably only the Dummy counts will increase). There is nothing on the screen during normal viewing that indicates the presence of TVGOS data.

Hmmm. You imply that all the information comes over the (or a) host channel. With some effort I've succeeded in getting software updates and a correct clock. The clock channel is 13-1, so evidently I'm getting clock info via a digital channel. However, my Host Channel is still reported as blank, and I am still without channel listings. Does that square with your statement above?

Dave Kristol

There are three channels in the recorder that I am aware of, the host channel, the VBI channel, and the clock channel, each one independant of the other (i.e. each recorder channel can be assigned to a different TV broadcast channel or all three can be the same [or any combination]). Normally, you will get software updates, channel linup, and channel listings from the host channel, but you can get them from the VBI channel if you are running a G* Test. Time comes from the clock channel.

Hope this clears things up.

Ok, bm4wood...if I simply unplug my sony, plug it back it, and run the G* test, I should get a correct clock (my clock is incorrect now)? Is this essentially what you did? BTW, I'm 100% OTA digitial (no analog stations in my area broadcast TVGOS info).

djrich,

All other things being equal, yes (unplugging it would be effectively giving it a power failure). Just be sure the tuner is tuned to your TVGOS digital station in your area before running the G* test. Don't know if power failing it will help or not, but I was just relaying the incident that required me to get my clock reset. Both my "host" channel and my "Clock Set Chan" are showing a digital signature from the same CBS station.

There are three channels in the recorder that I am aware of, the host channel, the VBI channel, and the clock channel, each one independant of the other (i.e. each recorder channel can be assigned to a different TV broadcast channel or all three can be the same [or any combination]). Normally, you will get software updates, channel linup, and channel listings from the host channel, but you can get them from the VBI channel if you are running a G* Test. Time comes from the clock channel.

Hope this clears things up.

A bit, but not completely. Although I've gotten software updates and clock setting, I do not have a Host Channel, and I do not have channel lineup. Your statement "but you can get them from the VBI channel if you are running a G* Test" implies I could get channel lineup from without (or from other than) my Host Channel (which I don't have).

And what precisely does "get them from the VBI channel if you are running a G* Test" mean? Tune to (presumed) VBI channel and run G* Test?

Thanks
Dave Kristol

Hi, sorry to interrupt. I have a simple question for anyone out there who can answer it. I have 2 hdg-dd500's and 1 hdg-250. One of the dd500's has started putting a green diamond shape icon beside a program name in the "Recordings" list in the TVGOS. This diamond shap has a brown check mark in it. There is a list in the Manual explaining each of the icons used for recordings but this one is not included. Any help would be appreciated.

The green diamond with checkmark indicates that the recording is set to not be deleted until you intentionally delete it (not be automatically deleted to free up disk space when it gets old). You can set this individually for recordings, and there is also a global setting for new recordings somewhere in the setup.

Another thing I forgot to mention: The download schedule is completely blank. Never seen that before either.
now that you mention it, I've been meaning to ask where you see the download schedule...is it one of the screens you can reach when you use the 753... code to check the host channel? Thanks - Tony

Based on my personal experience after a reset several months back, I can testify that one reason for not getting a clock and channel linup overnight in spite of forcing your Sony to the digital host channel is that if it reboots during the download that would normally produce a valid channel linuep, you end up back with no clock nor channel lineup. I could suggest you stay up all night watching your Sony for the "Welcome" message that comes up after a reboot, but maybe you should try one of these:

a) Set up a video recorder to watch your Sony overnight for the telltale reboot (stop-motion, 1 frame per second is ok and will save a lot of memory/tape.)

b) Disable auto power off, run the G* test while tuned to your digital host channel, and keep an eye on the Sony for a couple hours for a reboot. This process accelerates the attempted download of channel lineup and will usually precipitate a reboot within a couple hours if one is going to happen at all.

If, as I did, you notice it rebooting every night or during the G* test, you need to use another zip-code to complete the channel lineup download, as the one for your current zip-code is overflowing some sort of internal buffer in the Sony and causing the reboot (and thus getting you nowhere.) Try changing your zip-code to a distant suburb maybe 40 miles or so away that is likely to receive the channels you are interested in but not as many as your current zip-code does. In the Philadelphia area, I've found that 19601 for Reading, PA does the trick and eliminates the rebooting during channel-lineup downloads.

For more background on this "feature", see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15209864#post15209864

As always, this may not be your problem... but it has helped me and several others get past this point.

Both my "host" channel and my "Clock Set Chan" are showing a digital signature from the same CBS station.


Here is my theory about what determines whether the G* Test sets the clock or not. I believe the clock will only get set during a G* Test if the clock channel is the same as the G* Test channel. So if your clock channel shows fffffffd, or is different from the channel you are running the G* Test on. your clock won't set during the G* Test. I came to this conclusion because whenever I lost power, my clock would be off by about 40 minutes. I could then run the G* Test and within 2 minutes my clock would set. After I Reset Factory Defaults on my unit, the G* Test would no longer set my clock (when I didn't have a clock) even after getting updated to 8.06.44. After my clock finally got set, I never tried to reset, and see if I could get it to come back.

Just to show how unpredictable these things can be, I decided to do a TV Guide/Exit reset and see if I could get my time back with the G* Test. When I did the reset, my system completely reset, and I lost my guide data, and my software version has reverted back to 8.01.42/0.00.00. I have reset this way before and never had this happen. So now my clock channel shows as fffffffd, and my host is blank. I'm going to try to recover by just doing the force host channel, and see what hapens.

Mark

HoustonPerson,

The digital CBS station is 13.1. However, they are broadcasting on a frequency of 4. My digital host channel shows up as 4.0 on the PVR. However I do not have 4.0 as a physical channel. They do still broadcast their analog station; but they have never sent TVGOS data over the analog signal. I've done all my tests and set vbi channel while tuned to 13.1. They are the last holdout and plan on analog cutoff middle of this month. And, yes, the clock has stayed accurate. Upon the power failure at my home, however, I did not wait for my clock to just come back...I ran the G* test and it reset itself to the correct time immediately. That's been my experience.
hmm...2 points:
- what does "set vbi channel" mean? The vbi channel is just the channel you are currently tuned to and doesn't mean anything else...

- have you actually CHECKED the CBS analog station for packets lately (i.e., using the G* test) - I was VERY surprised in the last 3 months when ON TWO OCCASIONS my LG3410a switched host channels from PBS analog to CBS analog, which I had always thought did NOT broadcast TVGOS...(now my unit has switched back to PBS and, unfortunately, it is still unstable with respect to getting listings consistently...I have to do a short plug-unplug on it every night if I want to get the next TVGOS download, whereas the CBS TVGOS gave me no such problem...go figure)

I haven't been playing around with my Sony 250, aside from using the G* test to check stations, and indeed both PBS and CBS analog are indeed passing TVGOS packets (3 or 4 per second) this afternoon - I also did the G* test-leave unit on procedure some months ago with my CBS digital station, just to confirm that it was broadcasting digital TVGOS...

To WS65711, thanks for the response. The global setting for the "Keep until I delete" option is in the TVGOS "Setup" at the top of the guide page. After selecting Setup, select Set Record Defaults.

I also thought that might be the description of that icon. However even though I changed the setting from Keep until I delete, to Delete when space is needed, the green diamond with the brown check mark kept appearing on everything that was recorded. Not only that, but the machine would not let me delete any recorded program. At that point I used one of the Reformat optiions mentioned above and reformatted the drive. At the completion of the reformat process a message came up saying the drive had been reformatted and and error had been fixed.

It doesn't appear to be "completely fixed" though. The icon still shows up on every recording but now I can manually delete them like I could before it started showing up. The global setting in Setup has been set to Delete when space needed since I reformatted the drive.

Thanks for the help.

Here's a quote from an older post that is now on a spiffspace forum:

"The VBI Search Current Channel code appears to 'force' the unit to search for (and download) VBI data on a channel of your choosing. This can then lead to the correct establishment of your host channel. This can be useful in situations when there are multiple host stations in a particular area, and you want to set the system to use the strongest station."

The procedure is as follows:
While tuned to your designated host station, Press 'TV Guide' on the remote, then navigate to the 'Setup' item, press 'Down' so that the currently selected menu item is the 'Change System Settings.' Then press 963214785 and the Info message will state something similar to 'Searching Current VBI Channel.' I do not have the exact message in front of me at the moment. You are then supposed to simply power off the machine after waiting a couple of minutes and let it stay off overnight. This has helped some force the digital channel when there are analog stations still in the tuner.

Disclaimer: Use this code at your own risk and 'Don't shoot the messenger if it messes things up.' (That was also a quote from the other forum.)

No, I have not checked the analog CBS station for packets. All of my host and clock settings are listed as a digital station.

now that you mention it, I've been meaning to ask where you see the download schedule...is it one of the screens you can reach when you use the 753... code to check the host channel? Thanks - Tony

Yes, use the 753... From the 1st page go UP 3 times, then RIGHT 2 times. That's the 1st page of the schedule and you can keep going right to page through the whole thing.

Finding one's way through all the 753... screens is worse than going through a maze blindfolded. :D

Well I did some digging today and found something interesting. Apparently when we see a date/time in the LastClkSet field and a channel for clock set, that has nothing to do with setting THE clock after a TVGOS reset. Once THE clock is set, I think the clock sets simply keep it in sync.

Here's what I found. Although this was written for the analog world I'm sure it still works the same.


Before TVGOS can begin receiving program listings, it needs to determine which channels are available to you. At frequent intervals, your TVGOS host station transmits a list of zip codes in your area and their associated channel lineups. If one of the potential zip codes matches yours, TVGOS will set your clock and store your channel lineup.

If TVGOS can't find a match for your zip code, you won't be able to proceed any further. TVGOS will also not set its clock until a zip code match is found.


Why it takes so long digitally to get the clock (if it can be done) is a mystery to me.

Well I did some digging today and found something interesting.


Good find. I have suspected for a while that there are 2 clocks in the DHG. For instance last week I did the 'Reset Factory Default', and the clock on the front reverted to 12:00am. However I noticed when I went to run the G* Test that the clock on that screen showed --:--. Tonight after my reset mishap, the opposite happened. The front panel shows --:--, but the G* Test screen showed 12:00. I don't know what this means, but I'm going to pay more attention to the time displayed in the 753xxx screen to see if it gets set correctly before the clock on my display.

Mark

...
Here's what I found. Although this was written for the analog world I'm sure it still works the same.
"Before TVGOS can begin receiving program listings, it needs to determine which channels are available to you. At frequent intervals, your TVGOS host station transmits a list of zip codes in your area and their associated channel lineups. If one of the potential zip codes matches yours, TVGOS will set your clock and store your channel lineup."

Why it takes so long digitally to get the clock (if it can be done) is a mystery to me.
regarding the quotation above...I don't know exactly where you found it, but it's consistent with what I've seen here and there before...TVGOS stuff states that "setup" info is available frequently (unlike the program data), that being the info particular to your zip code, namely lineups...

but, like you, I have no idea about getting the clock digitally...on the other hand, I appreciate your efforts (and that of others) to try to parse what's going on with digital TVGOS

(now if only I knew what is going on with the digital TVGOS trasmissisons that will help my LG3410a!)

Yes, use the 753... From the 1st page go UP 3 times, then RIGHT 2 times. That's the 1st page of the schedule and you can keep going right to page through the whole thing.

Finding one's way through all the 753... screens is worse than going through a maze blindfolded. :D
Thanks...is this stuff documented in spiffy's site? I haven't noticed it there, at least not in any organized way, but I might have missed it...

Well I did some digging today and found something interesting. Apparently when we see a date/time in the LastClkSet field and a channel for clock set, that has nothing to do with setting THE clock after a TVGOS reset. Once THE clock is set, I think the clock sets simply keep it in sync.

Here's what I found. Although this was written for the analog world I'm sure it still works the same.



Why it takes so long digitally to get the clock (if it can be done) is a mystery to me.Possibly some helpful info... (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15963759)

Possibly some helpful info... (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15963759)

Helpful indeed! :) Also explains about the clock sets being used to adjust drift as I suspected.

I like the post following that one too with the chart. THANK YOU.

If all you are interested in is getting your recorder to work again, you can temporarily hook up rabbit ears and get your clock from one of the analog channels. After you have a clock, you shouldn't have a problem forcing a host channel. If, however, you are like me and want to find a solution for this in the event it occurs post-analog, then keep trying for the host force.

Yeah, I'm only interested in making this work digitally. Nothing had changed when I got home tonight. I'm going to try changing my zip to leesburg and then forcing the digital host again. We'll see what this does in the morning. Tonight I tried as couple soft resets and G* tests and also tried to fake a power failure. Nothing has worked so far. Getting the clock digitally still seems to be the problem (not OTA, via Fios).

Yeah, I'm only interested in making this work digitally. Nothing had changed when I got home tonight. I'm going to try changing my zip to leesburg and then forcing the digital host again. We'll see what this does in the morning. Tonight I tried as couple soft resets and G* tests and also tried to fake a power failure. Nothing has worked so far. Getting the clock digitally still seems to be the problem (not OTA, via Fios).I have heard that Macrovision is still working on getting all 3 digital streams to be transmitted by the host inserters in many areas. Most likely why it works in some places and not others. There are also host stations that have not received their digital inserters from Macrovision yet. Add to that some cable co's in the middle of converting the digital feed to analog (usually a cable channel in the 90's). It's definitely mid-transition time.

I haven't been using either of two 250s for awhile. One remains powered and I've observed changes on it from time to time since Thanksgiving. Host channel was moving back and forth between 12 and 57 analog several months ago. Sunday it showed for the first time as 0:0-3, CBS analog presumably, with listings only for day 2. Tonight listings are full except for days 2, 4 & 7. No sidebar ads. I haven't seen mention of CBS analogs being hosts until recently. Is that the case in Philadelphia? I havent forced any host channel changes; no setup changes since December. Guide lost altogether for months on Toshiba TVGOS cc TV. FiOS & OTA 19002 zip in setup

I've got a 250 and a 500, both OTA only, with no analog host channel available (only a digital host channel), fed from the same roof antenna, with excellent signal quality. A couple of months ago, I forced the digital host channel on both units. Both units then showed the digital host channel in the 753159852 check, and retained the digital host channel even when there was still an analog host (which got shut off after Feb 17). Both units worked perfectly, and always had all 8 days of TV Guide listings.

On Feb 23, my 250 locked up, and would not respond to any commands, including an Exit-TV Guide button press to do a soft reset. So I unplugged the unit for 30 seconds, then plugged it back in. The channel lineup and all TV Guide listings remained remained intact, and the TVGOS firmware was still 08.06.44. I ran a G* test to force the digital host channel, got the correct time back within a couple of minutes, then shut the unit off for the night. Next morning, a 753... check showed a blank digital host channel, but all TV guide listings for the full 8-day period were present. The unit has remained working properly since then, even though the host channel still shows as blank.

On Feb 28, my 500 locked up in the same manner as the 250 did 5 days before, so I unplugged it for 30 seconds, plugged it back in, and did all of the same things as I did with the 250. Again, the channel lineup and TV Guide listings remained intact, and TVGOS firmware was still 08.06.44. Unfortunately, the unit has not shown any new TV Guide listings since then (all entries show "No Listing" after March 7) , and there are no ads (only the 2-box TV Guide message in the ad space). I've tried forcing the digital host three more times, but no new listings or ads have appeared. The VBI test passes just as it does on the 250, the host channel shows as blank in a 753... check, the TVGOS firmware is still 08.06.44, and the clock shows the correct time.

So the questions are:
1. The 250 and the 500 had the same problem and the same procedures done; the 250 contunues to show all TV Guide listings, but the 500 does not show any new ones. Why?

2. How can I get the 500 to start showing new TV Guide listings?

Thanks.

I like the post following that one too with the chart. THANK YOU.
me, too!

I have heard that Macrovision is still working on getting all 3 digital streams to be transmitted by the host inserters in many areas. Most likely why it works in some places and not others....
Can you tell us what the 3 digital streams are? Some people watching this issue over the last year have seen TWO streams, one of which has been "empty" (like a place holder), and some have been watching that to see if the data for use of the DTVPal in TVGOS mode appears there...but THREE streams? news to me!
Thanks - Tony

Can you tell us what the 3 digital streams are? Some people watching this issue over the last year have seen TWO streams, one of which has been "empty" (like a place holder), and some have been watching that to see if the data for use of the DTVPal in TVGOS mode appears there...but THREE streams? news to me!
Thanks - TonyPDF pages 6-8 (Digital Data Streams) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15676678)

A bit, but not completely. Although I've gotten software updates and clock setting, I do not have a Host Channel, and I do not have channel lineup. Your statement "but you can get them from the VBI channel if you are running a G* Test" implies I could get channel lineup from without (or from other than) my Host Channel (which I don't have).

And what precisely does "get them from the VBI channel if you are running a G* Test" mean? Tune to (presumed) VBI channel and run G* Test?

Thanks
Dave Kristol

Software updates, channel lineup, and channel listings normally come from your host channel according to the download schedule. Clock information comes from the clock channel. You can get software updates without a host channel or a valid clock by running the G* Test on a VBI channel that contains this information. You can get channel lineup and channel listings from a VBI channel if your recorder has a host channel and a valid clock. You can use a VBI channel to force a host channel and to force a clock channel. You must have a correct time zone in order to get the clock set correctly. Hope this clears things up.

Hi, sorry to interrupt. I have a simple question for anyone out there who can answer it. I have 2 hdg-dd500's and 1 hdg-250. One of the dd500's has started putting a green diamond shape icon beside a program name in the "Recordings" list in the TVGOS. This diamond shap has a brown check mark in it. There is a list in the Manual explaining each of the icons used for recordings but this one is not included. Any help would be appreciated.

To get rid of the green diamonds do the following:

1. Press the REC LIST button on the remote, This will bring you to the recordings list.

2. Press the MENU button on the remote. This will bring up the recordings menu in the left panel.

3. Change the View As entry from "list" to "group" and select done.

4. Your green diamonds are gone.

Here is my theory about what determines whether the G* Test sets the clock or not. I believe the clock will only get set during a G* Test if the clock channel is the same as the G* Test channel. So if your clock channel shows fffffffd, or is different from the channel you are running the G* Test on. your clock won't set during the G* Test. I came to this conclusion because whenever I lost power, my clock would be off by about 40 minutes. I could then run the G* Test and within 2 minutes my clock would set. After I Reset Factory Defaults on my unit, the G* Test would no longer set my clock (when I didn't have a clock) even after getting updated to 8.06.44. After my clock finally got set, I never tried to reset, and see if I could get it to come back.

Just to show how unpredictable these things can be, I decided to do a TV Guide/Exit reset and see if I could get my time back with the G* Test. When I did the reset, my system completely reset, and I lost my guide data, and my software version has reverted back to 8.01.42/0.00.00. I have reset this way before and never had this happen. So now my clock channel shows as fffffffd, and my host is blank. I'm going to try to recover by just doing the force host channel, and see what hapens.

Mark

This is not correct. The G* Test does not set the clock, but you can use the G* Test to force a clock channel, which will then receive clock data and set the clock. If your clock channel shows as fffffffd, tune to a channel that you know contains TVGOS data, run the G* Test, and leave the recorder on. You can periodically check the status of the clock channel using the 753... screens without having to restart the G* Test. I find that I usually have a clock channel with 20-30 minutes and a valid clock shortly thereafter. The fact that your clock sets within a few minutes of running a G* Test after a reset is coincidental because you are running the G* Test after the reset. Your recorder still has valid time zone information so it can use the data from the clock channel to set the clock. This would happen even if you didn't run the G* Test.

BTW, if you read my earlier posts you would have seen that I had the exact same thing happen to me when I did a soft reset from the front panel. I had never seen this happen before either.

To WS65711, thanks for the response. The global setting for the "Keep until I delete" option is in the TVGOS "Setup" at the top of the guide page. After selecting Setup, select Set Record Defaults.

I also thought that might be the description of that icon. However even though I changed the setting from Keep until I delete, to Delete when space is needed, the green diamond with the brown check mark kept appearing on everything that was recorded. Not only that, but the machine would not let me delete any recorded program. At that point I used one of the Reformat optiions mentioned above and reformatted the drive. At the completion of the reformat process a message came up saying the drive had been reformatted and and error had been fixed.

It doesn't appear to be "completely fixed" though. The icon still shows up on every recording but now I can manually delete them like I could before it started showing up. The global setting in Setup has been set to Delete when space needed since I reformatted the drive.

Thanks for the help.

Reformatting was far too drastic a step. You couldn't delete the recordings because you changed the setting from Keep Until I Delete to Delete When Space Is Needed. This gives the recorder control of the disk space instead of you. If you had simply changed it back to Keep Until I Delete, you could have manually deleted your recordings. See my post 14148 to see how to get rid of the green diamonds.

... I could suggest you stay up all night watching your Sony for the "Welcome" message that comes up after a reboot, but maybe you should try one of these:

a) Set up a video recorder to watch your Sony overnight for the telltale reboot (stop-motion, 1 frame per second is ok and will save a lot of memory/tape.)


FWIW, this is how I know my Sony has rebooted since the last time I looked at it, overnight or otherwise: I always have my Search sub-menu on Keyword, so when I select the "Search" main menu item at the top, the sub-menu is initially "Keyword". But every time I have seen a reboot occur it is no longer the initial sub-menu under Search (I forget what it is, but it is not Keyword).

Jim

Success! Well at least partial success. From a full reset (default software, no clock, no host channel) and using a digital source, I have been able to update the software from default to intermediate to latest, force a digital clock channel, and obtain a vaild clock. When I tried to force a digital host channel using a previously successful procedure, I wound up with an analog host channel (we all know these recorders prefer analog channels) and a channel lineup. Unfortunately, I had to do two soft resets, one because of a lockup. I turned the recorder back on and expect to have a full 8 days of listings from digital CBS in the morning (I'll check at 3:02AM if I make it until then).

I think that I need to change the order in which I am doing things to eliminate the problems that I encountered. I plan to try another test tomorrow. I am confident that the new procedure will be completely successful (providing that I can force a digital host channel in the presence of so many analog hosts). If it works, I'll post the procedure so that those of you currently experiencing problems after a reset can try to replicate my results if you wish.

Success! Well at least partial success. From a full reset (default software, no clock, no host channel) and using a digital source, I have been able to update the software from default to intermediate to latest, force a digital clock channel, and obtain a vaild clock. When I tried to force a digital host channel using a previously successful procedure, I wound up with an analog host channel (we all know these recorders prefer analog channels) and a channel lineup. Unfortunately, I had to do two soft resets, one because of a lockup. I turned the recorder back on and expect to have a full 8 days of listings from digital CBS in the morning (I'll check at 3:02AM if I make it until then).

I think that I need to change the order in which I am doing things to eliminate the problems that I encountered. I plan to try another test tomorrow. I am confident that the new procedure will be completely successful (providing that I can force a digital host channel in the presence of so many analog hosts). If it works, I'll post the procedure so that those of you currently experiencing problems after a reset can try to replicate my results if you wish.

See.....told ya.....you didn't believe me:)

Success! Well at least partial success. From a full reset (default software, no clock, no host channel) and using a digital source, I have been able to update the software from default to intermediate to latest, force a digital clock channel, and obtain a vaild clock. When I tried to force a digital host channel using a previously successful procedure, I wound up with an analog host channel (we all know these recorders prefer analog channels) and a channel lineup. Unfortunately, I had to do two soft resets, one because of a lockup. I turned the recorder back on and expect to have a full 8 days of listings from digital CBS in the morning (I'll check at 3:02AM if I make it until then).

I think that I need to change the order in which I am doing things to eliminate the problems that I encountered. I plan to try another test tomorrow. I am confident that the new procedure will be completely successful (providing that I can force a digital host channel in the presence of so many analog hosts). If it works, I'll post the procedure so that those of you currently experiencing problems after a reset can try to replicate my results if you wish.

Congratulations! I have not been so lucky. After my clock got the right time (and the software had already updated successfully), I did an explicit Search VBI Channel, but after a day and a half, I still had no Host Channel or program listings as of last night. Looks like I may be one of the first guinea pigs for your procedure when you post it.

Last night I (unintentionally) did a TVGOS Reset. That apparently lost the software updates, and the clock I was left with was wrong. So this morning I have no (correct) clock, un-updated software, and no program listings. But the TOD on the Status screen is correct! Tra la, tra la.

Dave Kristol

compu,

I've had the same experience with my 250 (no host channel showing, but guide data still populating). I have also experienced what you are having with your 500. The last thing I did to my machine is listed below. Since then (going on a month now) I have had no problems with my machine. Not to say they won't pop up, but it's been nice to not have to worry about it for a month.

(Feb 10) I performed the reset of the TVGOS on my DHG-HDD250. (Search this forum for specific instructions that I will not repeat here.) At the point after the rescan of my channels, the analog station was not even listed; which, in my opinion, was a good thing because I wanted to see if it would populate completely with my digital CBS station.

After rescanning channels I removed all of my analog stations from the channel +/- menu, leaving only digital stations.
I then tuned to the digital CBS station.
Performed the G* test for VBI packets. Exited. Performed the G* Test again, just to be sure VBI packets test passed.
Once the G* test passed, I then performed the process to Search VBI Current Channel (Procedures quoted by me a few posts back.)
Powered Off and Left alone overnight.

23 days and no issues since. I think the rescan of channels helps a lot... although some may disagree with me. And although some think that it is unnecessary to scan twice - once with the antenna disconnected and then with it reconnected - I think that it clears the channel lineup of some residual data. Just FYI.

Great news...but how do you know that your clock wasn't set by an analog OTA source?
I'm OTA only, and only one station (out of 15 OTA channels I receive) is broadcasting TVGOS info (local CBS station, broadcasting only digitally). So, given I'm digital only where I live, I'm a good guinea pig for post digital conversion testing...and I haven't been able to get my clock to set correctlly. It sets, but it is wrong. I'm looking forward to the revised set of instructions after doing a TVGOS reset!

See.....told ya.....you didn't believe me:)

I suspect that it will eventually work, but it isn't anywhere nearly as easy as you made it out to be. Getting a correct clock is the crux of the problem and it is still difficult to get the clock set correctly. Until recently, I hadn't discovered a way to force a digital clock channel for testing purposes. Others haven't been as fortunate in getting their clocks to set correctly. See the posts by Dave Kristol and djrich shortly after yours. Testing an all digital solution in an analog environment is problematic at best.

I suspect that it will eventually work, but it isn't anywhere nearly as easy as you made it out to be. Getting a correct clock is the crux of the problem and it is still difficult to get the clock set correctly. Until recently, I hadn't discovered a way to force a digital clock channel for testing purposes. Others haven't been as fortunate in getting their clocks to set correctly. See the posts by Dave Kristol and djrich shortly after yours. Testing an all digital solution in an analog environment is problematic at best.

Please re-read my post #14134 up above. The digital clock sets are meaningless until TVGOS finds a zip code match and sets its internal clock (maybe that should be inFernal clock :D). It is only then that the display clocks will be correct. After that point, the clock sets are used to adjust any drift in the internal clock.

Please re-read my post #14134 up above. The digital clock sets are meaningless until TVGOS finds a zip code match and sets its internal clock (maybe that should be inFernal clock :D). It is only then that the display clocks will be correct. After that point, the clock sets are used to adjust any drift in the internal clock.

Read your post. I'm not refering to the last clock set field. When I talk about getting the clock set correctly, I'm referring to the entire process: setting the correct Zip Code, acquiring the correct time zone for the Zip Code, setting the correct GMT offset, obtaining GMT, and obtaining time data from the clock set channel. I've read the informaton on how the clock works. The last clock set field only refers to the date and time of the last clock information obtained from the clock set channel. I didn't mean to gloss over it. Maybe I'm not using enough words to express my thoughts. A lot of what is expressed here suffers from lack of verbalization and trying to type ideas in as short a space as possible.

^^^^
Sorry, guess I was being too literal about "clock set" :(

I'm also doing a test to see if I can get back by digital only from reset. I failed overnight yesterday because somehow the unit went back to using an analog host. Only thing I can think of is that I might have forgotten to do the channel up/down thing before starting the VBI search. So...trying again today.

^^^^
Sorry, guess I was being too literal about "clock set" :(

I'm also doing a test to see if I can get back by digital only from reset. I failed overnight yesterday because somehow the unit went back to using an analog host. Only thing I can think of is that I might have forgotten to do the channel up/down thing before starting the VBI search. So...trying again today.

You may have done nothing wrong. Doing a VBI search on a digital channel doesn't guaranntee that you will get a digital host, although it does greatly improve your chances of doing so. More often than not I have wound up with an analog host when trying to force a digital host. There are too many good analog sources in my area. It makes testing a fully digital recovery very difficult. Right now I am at step 11 of a 13 step recovery procedure, which coincidently is the point where I have to force a digital host channel. Good luck to both of us.

I suspect that it will eventually work, but it isn't anywhere nearly as easy as you made it out to be. Getting a correct clock is the crux of the problem and it is still difficult to get the clock set correctly. Until recently, I hadn't discovered a way to force a digital clock channel for testing purposes. Others haven't been as fortunate in getting their clocks to set correctly. See the posts by Dave Kristol and djrich shortly after yours. Testing an all digital solution in an analog environment is problematic at best.

Well, actually, until I killed it last night, I had a correct clock, but I was still unable to set a Host Channel and get program listings in about a day and a half.

Dave Kristol

....snip
Testing an all digital solution in an analog environment is problematic at best.

I'll second that. Today I started my test a bit before 9:00AM. At 3:20PM I noticed the display clock was correct. Went to 753... screens and see that host is blank (good), then looked at clock set channel (bad). It says 0-11 which is the unit's preferred analog host. So despite the VBI Search running it certainly does go look for analog.

Might be time to go buy a blank VHS tape. :eek:

I think part of the problem here is that several of you are having to jump through a lot of hoops to try to "trick" your DVR into using a Digital Host channel instead of an Analog host. There are some of us on this board who don't have to do that since we have no analog host channel any more. It will either work digitally, or it won't do anything. Some of the steps that are having to be done are possibly red herrings, and only necessary to try to prevent the analog host from taking over (the G* Test perhaps?).

Case in point:
My reset on 3/3/2009 5:00pm
SW ver: 08.01.42/00.00.00
Time in 753 menu 1/1/2004 0:00
System Time (TV Guide screen): 1/1/2004 12:00am
Front Panel Time: --:--
I forced my digital host and turned off the DVR.

3/3/2009 10:00pm
SW ver: 08.01.42/00.00.00
Time in 753 menu 3/4/2009 4:00 (Correct time)
System Time: 1/1/2004 5:04am
Front Panel Time: --:--
Host channel blank
Clock Set Channel 0:12-1
Failed Chan fffffffd

My clock had been set in the 753 menu from my digital host channel, but my guide time had not been set (yet).

I ran the G* Test, and my guide clock didn't set but look at what happened in the 753 menu...

Clock Set Channel fffffffd
Failed Chan fffffffd
Hmmmmm... I lost my clock channel by running G* Test (which contradicts what I thought would happen). I'm going to try to get the rest of the system back without runing the G* Test again.

So, I forced the digital host and turned off.

3/4/2009 6:20am
SW ver: 08.01.42/08.05.40
system is upgraded to 08.05.40
Time in 753 menu: 3/4/2009 12:20 (Correct)
System Time: 3/4/09 06:20am (Correct)
Front Panel Time: 6:20 am (Correct)
Yes, my clock had come back, and I wasn't even up to version 08.06.44.

Host channel: Blank
Clock Set Channel: 0:0-0
Failed Chan: 0:0-0
At this point the clock channel doesn't matter since the time in the 753xxx menu is correct (it already got the clock info overnight).

I forced the digital host and turned off, and went to work.

3/4/2009 6:00pm
Unfortunately, nothing happened today, and my SW version is still at 08.05.40. I set 'Lost' to record manually, forced the host channel and turned off.

We'll see what happens tonight/tomorrow.

Mark

A brief history: I joined this forum after buying a DLP HDTV (50in.)
and was looking to find a way to record in HD. It did not take long
to find that the Sony was the only choice. Found one on EBay, nearly
new with extended warranty. Hooked it up and after a steep learning
curve my wife and I both liked it very much. After about a year, started
having problems and learned a lot more about diagnosis and hidden
codes and features. Eventually decided HDD had failed, sent to Sony.
HDD replaced under warranty and no more problems until late last year.
Started getting random reboots and other strange things. Did not do
anything except a warm reboot once in awhile, recordings and clock
working ok. On Feb. 17 most of the analog channels shut down in my area,
RC So. Dak.
Clock went away, listings and recordings still ok. By Feb. 25 all listings were
gone. Due to work did not look at it until Mar. 2 Did try 2 or 3 warm reboots
and cold boots before Mar. 2 with no luck.
Went to Spiff`s new web site and did Frank70`s procedure as written by
Spiff. First tried local CBS anolog, no joy. Tried local CBS digital 15.1,
within 2 seconds of shut down I had correct clock. Turned it on about 4
hours later and had almost complete listings, no TVGOS ads.
Next morning ads and full listings and all previosly recordings intact.
Works better than ever!
OTA and Cablecard.

Yeah, our beloved Sony DHG should work better than ever.
Why there is so much frustration and obsession on this board?! People are really making this switchover process a lot more complicated than necessary.
Actually it is literally as simple as setting a recording on DHG250/500. You see DHG goes thru four downloads a day and as long as the unit is set to the digital host right before it downloads it won't look further. If it doesn't find VBI coming in then it will scans all analog channels and report "no listings". So here is the trick: set a regular recording at 12:30am for half an hour at lowest resolution (to save space) on CBS digital station. That way DHG sees the VBI data when it comes on to download TVGOS every morning. DHG stays on the same channel you last watched or recorded. So other scheduled shows are not affected.
In 753 data page your host channel will show blanck and your VBI channel will be whatever it last tunes to. But so what? and who cares? As long as the guide data comes in every day you just sit back and enjoy the shows. Quit messing around with that thing like setting host chan, VBI search and all the rest, in the end its the TVG that matters, the other gibbrish just doesn't enter the picture.

I'll second that. Today I started my test a bit before 9:00AM. At 3:20PM I noticed the display clock was correct. Went to 753... screens and see that host is blank (good), then looked at clock set channel (bad). It says 0-11 which is the unit's preferred analog host. So despite the VBI Search running it certainly does go look for analog.

Might be time to go buy a blank VHS tape. :eek:

Well, you are in luck. Last week at Fry's (in San Diego) I spotted a shelf with a liberal supply of Sony (3 pack) 160 minute tapes. A bit overpriced at abt $12.

And for you older users the shelf below held an ample supply of BetaMax tapes.

BTW, I have 2 8 hour S-VHS tapes recorded from TWC analog cable ch 11, PBS, which is still the current provider of TVGOS data for my 3 TVGOS equipped devices.
Although my listings are fully populated, who knows what will happen on June 11. Call it TVGOS insurance.

I think part of the problem here is that several of you are having to jump through a lot of hoops to try to "trick" your DVR into using a Digital Host channel instead of an Analog host. There are some of us on this board who don't have to do that since we have no analog host channel any more. It will either work digitally, or it won't do anything. Some of the steps that are having to be done are possibly red herrings, and only necessary to try to prevent the analog host from taking over (the G* Test perhaps?).

Mark

Mark, I agree that the best "testers" are those of you who already have no analog hosts to interfere with the process. :)

Yeah, our beloved Sony DHG should work better than ever.
Why there is so much frustration and obsession on this board?! People are really making this switchover process a lot more complicated than necessary.
Actually it is literally as simple as setting a recording on DHG250/500.....

The "obsession" is not about whether listings can be received. We know they can. The question is how easy (or difficult) is it to recover from a TVGOS reset without an analog host. Sooner or later resets happen. The more information we gather, the better we can answer questions from frustrated folks who've lost the whole guide system.

I recorded several 6 hr vhs recordings from our old analog host last month, the week before the shutoff just for insurance in case I might need them to set the clock or something later. Tornado season is approaching in Oklahoma and power outages are a sure thing.

A brief history: I joined this forum after buying a DLP HDTV (50in.)
and was looking to find a way to record in HD. It did not take long
to find that the Sony was the only choice. Found one on EBay, nearly
new with extended warranty. Hooked it up and after a steep learning
curve my wife and I both liked it very much. After about a year, started
having problems and learned a lot more about diagnosis and hidden
codes and features. Eventually decided HDD had failed, sent to Sony.
HDD replaced under warranty and no more problems until late last year.
Started getting random reboots and other strange things. Did not do
anything except a warm reboot once in awhile, recordings and clock
working ok. On Feb. 17 most of the analog channels shut down in my area,
RC So. Dak.
Clock went away, listings and recordings still ok. By Feb. 25 all listings were
gone. Due to work did not look at it until Mar. 2 Did try 2 or 3 warm reboots
and cold boots before Mar. 2 with no luck.
Went to Spiff`s new web site and did Frank70`s procedure as written by
Spiff. First tried local CBS anolog, no joy. Tried local CBS digital 15.1,
within 2 seconds of shut down I had correct clock. Turned it on about 4
hours later and had almost complete listings, no TVGOS ads.
Next morning ads and full listings and all previosly recordings intact.
Works better than ever!
OTA and Cablecard.

Same thing here, the Frank70 procedure worked for me the first time BUT later I found that although the host was digital channel 5.1 OTA, the clock channel was analog channel 9 Cable(no Card). That's great and it works, but the pure OTA people don't (or won't) have an analog clock source. Check your clock channel and see what it says.

Jim

Okay, here's the scoop. I'm tired of pressing buttons and waiting for updates and plan to take a break for a while. I have developed a 13 step procedure to recover from a complete reset, but have not gotten past step 11 in which I force a digital host channel. The problem I am experiencing is that there are too many analog sources in my area and when I try to force a digital host; I wind up with an analog host, my clock channel resets from digital to analog, and the channel lineup downloads from the analog source. I am able to get listings from the digital channel after the linup is downloaded. This does not give me cause for concern since I have been able to force a digital host in the past and get the channel lineup from the digital host. The updated procedure did not lock up or require any unplanned soft resets. If anyone would like to play around with it to see if it helps you, especially someone in a digital only environment, I would be happy to post the entire procedure. It does contain some actions which may not be required in a digital only environment, but these actions will not interfere with your recovery in a digital environment if you follow the procedure exactly as written. If there are no takers, I will resume testing in a week or so.

Okay, here's the scoop. I'm tired of pressing buttons and waiting for updates and plan to take a break for a while. I have developed a 13 step procedure to recover from a complete reset, but have not gotten past step 11 in which I force a digital host channel. The problem I am experiencing is that there are too many analog sources ..............



Yep that is the same conclusion I came to at the end of January. All the attempts just made my Sony Box insane…….I could never obtain a solid reliable clock. Maybe it would be a few minutes off then a few hours off. Even regular resets back to analogue would not work – it has gotten so messed up. It was not smart enough to cope with the insanity.

So I just did the full factory “everything” and it has been perfect ever since. The clock has been accurate to within 30 seconds. Full 8 day downloads have always been perfect. And no lock ups or any other anomalies.

Assuming we have a hard date of June 12th in Houston (not anything I would take to the bank-it may be gone tomorrow?). Then I will see if the Sony Box can fix itself, if not then I will attempt to force feed it again.

So for the time being, I will continue to use the box in perfect oblivion to the world.

If anyone would like to play around with it to see if it helps you, especially someone in a digital only environment, I would be happy to post the entire procedure.

I'm interested. While I'm not using OTA, I think Fios without a cable card is pretty similar because it has the correct PSIP and all the channels are the same for most of my locals. PM me if no one else seems interested.

Yep that is the same conclusion I came to at the end of January. All the attempts just made my Sony Box insane…….I could never obtain a solid reliable clock. Maybe it would be a few minutes off then a few hours off. Even regular resets back to analogue would not work – it has gotten so messed up. It was not smart enough to cope with the insanity.

So I just did the full factory “everything” and it has been perfect ever since. The clock has been accurate to within 30 seconds. Full 8 day downloads have always been perfect. And no lock ups or any other anomalies.

Assuming we have a hard date of June 12th in Houston (not anything I would take to the bank-it may be gone tomorrow?). Then I will see if the Sony Box can fix itself, if not then I will attempt to force feed it again.

So for the time being, I will continue to use the box in perfect oblivion to the world.

Under normal conditions, both of my recorders are extremely stable. The only real problem I have experienced is the issue with the recorder locking up when trying to play a previously recorded show while recording another show. That problem is easily corrected by a soft reset followed by rescanning the channels and reentering the setup information. My recorders have never become confused to the point that yours did and have never required a full factory reset to make them stable (I'm not saying that yours didn't require it). In other than testing conditions, when I get a clock it is stable. Even with all of the testing I have done, when I stop the tests the recorders return to normal stable operation.

I am not doing the tests because I have problems. I am performing tests because I perceive there may be a specific problem after the digital transition is complete and I want to be prepared for it should it arise. Better to waste a little time now and discover later that it wasn't necessary than to assume everything will be okay now and curse myself later for not creating a backup VCR tape or discovering another recovery solution. I try to expect the best and prepare for the worst.

I think that my digital would work just fine if I could only get rid of all those d**n analog signals.:D

Okay, here's the scoop. I'm tired of pressing buttons and waiting for updates and plan to take a break for a while. I have developed a 13 step procedure to recover from a complete reset, but have not gotten past step 11 in which I force a digital host channel. The problem I am experiencing is that there are too many analog sources in my area and when I try to force a digital host; I wind up with an analog host, my clock channel resets from digital to analog, and the channel lineup downloads from the analog source. I am able to get listings from the digital channel after the linup is downloaded. This does not give me cause for concern since I have been able to force a digital host in the past and get the channel lineup from the digital host. The updated procedure did not lock up or require any unplanned soft resets. If anyone would like to play around with it to see if it helps you, especially someone in a digital only environment, I would be happy to post the entire procedure. It does contain some actions which may not be required in a digital only environment, but these actions will not interfere with your recovery in a digital environment if you follow the procedure exactly as written. If there are no takers, I will resume testing in a week or so.

I'd be interested in your procedure. Things are going weirdly for me. I believe I have no analog sources. At least the DHG hasn't tried to sync to any.

Because I unintentionally did a TVGOS Reset, I've been following the frank70 sequence. I see VBI packets on 2-1 (CBS) and 13-1 (PBS). And this is interesting: I'm on cable, and my DHG likes to identify 90-1 as its source. 90-1 appears to be the actual channel slot where 13-1 lives.

Anyway, this morning I was at about step 6/7/8 in the frank70 procedure. I had gotten the 8.05.40 update but not yet 8.06.44. But this was real weird: When I first turned on the DHG, the only button that worked was power. None of the buttons on the remote *or* the front panel did anything. So I had to do the Exit/TV Guide soft reset. I have a front panel clock, but it's not correct. The clock in the Status page is correct, however. My Clock Set channel is 90-1. I don't yet have a Host Channel. (In fact, I have yet to get a Host Channel since my power "event" last week reset the whole box.)

So, although others have recovered from a full reset to a working DHG, I have yet to achieve that. I'm on my second try.

Here's a side question: Often when I tune to a presumed host channel (2-1, 13-1, 90-1) and do the G* test, the VBI: and ATSC: values are 1023:65533. Interesting "computer numbers," those. 65533 is fffd (hex) and 1023 is 3fff. Put 'em together, you get 3ffffffd, which looks suspiciously close to the fffffffd you see for Clock Set and Clock Fail channels in the status. Does anyone else get the 1023:65533 values for the G* test?

Dave Kristol

If anyone would like to play around with it to see if it helps you, especially someone in a digital only environment, I would be happy to post the entire procedure.

I think that my digital would work just fine if I could only get rid of all those d**n analog signals.:D

ImTheOne,
I am possibly a good candidate for the test. My cable company just recently began passing the VBI on digital CBS. Until now my only other source was via analog PBS OTA. So basically I only have one analog host channel which can be eliminated by disconnecting my antenna. I recently forced host to digital CBS and it is showing as my host channel and clock set channel. I just need to find the time to mess around with it and try a restoration from digital only. If you would like to post your procedure I may be able to give it a try this weekend.

I'd be interested in your procedure. Things are going weirdly for me. I believe I have no analog sources. At least the DHG hasn't tried to sync to any.

Because I unintentionally did a TVGOS Reset, I've been following the frank70 sequence. I see VBI packets on 2-1 (CBS) and 13-1 (PBS). And this is interesting: I'm on cable, and my DHG likes to identify 90-1 as its source. 90-1 appears to be the actual channel slot where 13-1 lives.

Anyway, this morning I was at about step 6/7/8 in the frank70 procedure. I had gotten the 8.05.40 update but not yet 8.06.44. But this was real weird: When I first turned on the DHG, the only button that worked was power. None of the buttons on the remote *or* the front panel did anything. So I had to do the Exit/TV Guide soft reset. I have a front panel clock, but it's not correct. The clock in the Status page is correct, however. My Clock Set channel is 90-1. I don't yet have a Host Channel. (In fact, I have yet to get a Host Channel since my power "event" last week reset the whole box.)

So, although others have recovered from a full reset to a working DHG, I have yet to achieve that. I'm on my second try.

Here's a side question: Often when I tune to a presumed host channel (2-1, 13-1, 90-1) and do the G* test, the VBI: and ATSC: values are 1023:65533. Interesting "computer numbers," those. 65533 is fffd (hex) and 1023 is 3fff. Put 'em together, you get 3ffffffd, which looks suspiciously close to the fffffffd you see for Clock Set and Clock Fail channels in the status. Does anyone else get the 1023:65533 values for the G* test?

Dave Kristol

Sometimes when I run the G* Test I get 1023:65533 for the VBI and ATSC values and sometimes I get the actual VBI channel that is tuned. I am having to modify my procedure slightly because I was using the G* Test to force a digital clock channel and I noticed that it only seems to set the Clock Chan field to the digital station when the G* Test returns the tuned channel in the VBI and ATSC fields, not when it returns 1023:65533 in these fields. When the G* Test returns 1023:65533, the Clock Chan field is set to ffffffff. If I can't resolve this, I'll post the procedure anyway and you and Chip Chanko can have at it.

user X has entered room

analyst Matthew_ has entered room

Matthew_>
Hi X. Welcome to Sony Online Support. I'm Matthew. Please allow me a moment to review your concern.

X>
ok

Matthew_>
Thank you for waiting, X. I'll be glad to assist you in providing the information about the feature of the Digital Video Recorder.

Matthew_>
You can use this Recorder after the digital transition.

X>
So it will continue to work, so I do not have to get an upgrade from Sony for firmware or anything like that? It will do it's own thing to get digital downloads from CBS in Houston?

Matthew_>
Yes, X.

X>
Ok, thank you very much. Sure wish Sony would make more of these things, I would buy a dozen more.

Matthew_>
I glad to know that you are a loyal customer of Sony.

Matthew_>
Is there anything else I may assist you with today?


So a little bit of "good news" - I still think it will work just fine in Houston, when we get there.

ImTheOne,
I recently forced host to digital CBS and it is showing as my host channel and clock set channel. I just need to find the time to mess around with it and try a restoration from digital only.

This also worked for me on Fios (got the digital host, clock was set, and got guide data) before I did a G* reset, but I have not been able to get it to work after the reset. Before I reset the unit, I'd run it via OTA for a while. I then switched it over to fios only (only digital) and was able to get guide data via our CBS digital host. After the reset, like others here, i've gotten up to the newest TVGos revision and have the correct clock/date in the top left of the 753 menu, but can't get a host to lock and can't get the front clock to correctly set.

It looks to me that so far no one in a digital-only world has been able to get their Sony fully operational, which is what ImTheOne is pursuing yet not able to completely figure out until the digital switch is thrown and the analog channels aren't there to get in the way. There is some sort of "missing link" when we're doing the firmware updates purely digital (or perhaps something is still missing from the TVGos data that we need and it will be added before June 12). The host and front clock just aren't setting.

I could hook up an antenna and get it to work but I don't want to bring anything analog into the mix so will keep trying with it only connected to fios.

If I can't resolve this, I'll post the procedure anyway and you and Chip Chanko can have at it.

Thanks!

Sometimes when I run the G* Test I get 1023:65533 for the VBI and ATSC values and sometimes I get the actual VBI channel that is tuned. I am having to modify my procedure slightly because I was using the G* Test to force a digital clock channel and I noticed that it only seems to set the Clock Chan field to the digital station when the G* Test returns the tuned channel in the VBI and ATSC fields, not when it returns 1023:65533 in these fields. When the G* Test returns 1023:65533, the Clock Chan field is set to ffffffff. If I can't resolve this, I'll post the procedure anyway and you and Chip Chanko can have at it.

That is very interesting information. In all the times I have run the G* Test, I have only seen it report the actual 12-1 channel once, and that was just a week or two ago. Every other time it reports 1023-65533. when I saw it report the 12-1 channel, I thought it was very odd, since I had never seen that before, and not since. This may explain why it "wiped out" my clock channel when I ran the G* test. It may put this data in that field. I'm wondering if there is something slightly out of sync with the digital data, and the DHG.

Mark

user X has entered room

analyst Matthew_ has entered room

Matthew_>
Hi X. Welcome to Sony Online Support. I'm Matthew. Please allow me a moment to review your concern.

X>
ok

Matthew_>
Thank you for waiting, X. I'll be glad to assist you in providing the information about the feature of the Digital Video Recorder.

Matthew_>
You can use this Recorder after the digital transition.

X>
So it will continue to work, so I do not have to get an upgrade from Sony for firmware or anything like that? It will do it's own thing to get digital downloads from CBS in Houston?

Matthew_>
Yes, X.

X>
Ok, thank you very much. Sure wish Sony would make more of these things, I would buy a dozen more.

Matthew_>
I glad to know that you are a loyal customer of Sony.

Matthew_>
Is there anything else I may assist you with today?


So a little bit of "good news" - I still think it will work just fine in Houston, when we get there.

And you're going to rely on the assurances of a low-level tech support guy with no proof or documentation from Sony that what he is telling you is correct?:eek:

FWIW, as many times as I've run the G* test on both of my DHGs I've never seen anything other than --- displayed after VBI: and ATSC:

Y'all ARE talking about the area in the center just above the counts?

FWIW, as many times as I've run the G* test on both of my DHGs I've never seen anything other than --- displayed after VBI: and ATSC:

Y'all ARE talking about the area in the center just above the counts?

Yes, sometimes it is ---, sometimes it is 1023:65533, and sometimes it is the actual channel number (e.g. when I am tuned to 9.1 it displays 9-1)

My clock previously could always quickly get the time from the G*Test on a digital channel. That is not true in recent weeks. I did not associate that with "1023..." appearing as the channel during the test, but that is what most often happens lately. So I believe the observations of others here are correct.

If only we knew why the correct channel does not always appear...

And you're going to rely on the assurances of a low-level tech support guy with no proof or documentation from Sony that what he is telling you is correct?:eek:

Well they also told me I won the Lottery.

FWIW, as many times as I've run the G* test on both of my DHGs I've never seen anything other than --- displayed after VBI: and ATSC:

Y'all ARE talking about the area in the center just above the counts?

The only time I see --- is when the ATSC and VBI tests fail (packets aren't counting up, or just haven't started yet). I can usually exit the test and get back into it, and those two tests pass.

On another note, my SW version is up to 08.06.44 again. My host channel is blank, and my clock channel is 0:12-1. I need the channel lineup now, but last time I was at this point, I ran the G* Test to get the data. Then the lineup, and 8 days of data filled in in a few hours. I'm going to just leave it off, and see if it doesn't get it on its own this time.

Mark

And here's my update. I left it on all day (thought I'd try something different) and now my clock on the display is finally showing the correct time. All I need now are listings.

The only time I see --- is when the ATSC and VBI tests fail (packets aren't counting up, or just haven't started yet). I can usually exit the test and get back into it, and those two tests pass.

On my DHG, tests pass and I get incrementing counts whether the VBI/ATSC display is correct or not. I dependably get counts on any of my presumed digital host channels.

On another note, my SW version is up to 08.06.44 again. My host channel is blank, and my clock channel is 0:12-1. I need the channel lineup now, but last time I was at this point, I ran the G* Test to get the data. Then the lineup, and 8 days of data filled in in a few hours. I'm going to just leave it off, and see if it doesn't get it on its own this time.

Mark

My DHG is at a similar point. SW up to date, host channel blank, clock channel 0:90-1, front panel clock set correctly. When you say you "ran the G* Test to get the data," what do you do after the counts start incrementing? Do you exit, leave the DHG on, or turn the DHG off? When I got to this point once before, I did the G* test, did VBI Search, and left the DHG off overnight (frank70, steps 10-12). I did not get listings after a day and a half.

Dave Kristol

My DHG is at a similar point. SW up to date, host channel blank, clock channel 0:90-1, front panel clock set correctly. When you say you "ran the G* Test to get the data," what do you do after the counts start incrementing? Do you exit, leave the DHG on, or turn the DHG off? When I got to this point once before, I did the G* test, did VBI Search, and left the DHG off overnight (frank70, steps 10-12). I did not get listings after a day and a half.

Dave Kristol

I was also at the point you are at now a week ago. I had got the clock back, and the channel list, but nothing else had happened for a day or two, so I started the G* Test at 8:00 am, and left the DVR on. Then around 3 or 4 pm, I checked on it, and the listings were filled in.

I don't want to have to do that every time though. I'm frustrated because after the PBS analog station shut down, I was getting the data every night from the digital host (for about a month). Then something went wrong with their setup, and I got no data from them for over a week. Since it came back on, I have yet to have it download the data automatically. I had 2 days of no listings, and was going to wait one more day before I intervened. However in trying to prove the theory about my clock setting itself just by running the G* Test, I tried the TV Guide/Exit reset (which normally just throws my clock off by about 40 minutes). This resulted in the loss of all my listings, the clock, and the software reverted back to 8.1.42, and I had to start over. I'm trying to do it this time by leaving the DVR off most of the time, and not force it with the G* Test.

Mark

Before I went to bed last night, I tuned both my DVRs to OTA CBS 2.1, as suggested by a recent post, to get the units to get guide and clock data from that source. At that time, both were getting that data from analog OTA PBS channel 28. Today, my 250 is getting guide and clock data from CBS 2.1, and my 500, which has a cable card, is still getting data from analog channel 28.

That post also suggested to set a daily recording to insure that the DVR is tuned to the digital guide channel so that it will be likely to choose that channel. So today I set my 500 to record for 1 minute at 2 am, with the hope that it would eventually switch to channel 2.1. Immediately after I made this setting, the unit decided to reboot, but that wasn't a problem since the time reappeared within one minute after reboot ended. Tonight, I will set the same recording on my 250.

Ray
PS I searched the recent posts but couldn't locate the person who made the above suggestion.

An interesting thing I noticed: If you run a G* Test and the VBI and ATSC fields are ---, the Clock Chan field is set to ffffffff; if you run a G* Test and the VBI and ATSC fields are 1023:65533, the Clock Chan field is set to fffffffd; and if you run a G* Test and the VBI and ATSC fields are the tuned channel, the Clock Chan field is set to the actual VBI channel that is tuned. Also, the value returned seems to vary depending upon the time of day. I am speculating that it may have something to do with which download is running on the selected VBI channel at the time of the test. I need to make some observations to prove or disprove this theory. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

Before I went to bed last night, I tuned both my DVRs to OTA CBS 2.1, as suggested by a recent post, to get the units to get guide and clock data from that source. At that time, both were getting that data from analog OTA PBS channel 28. Today, my 250 is getting guide and clock data from CBS 2.1, and my 500, which has a cable card, is still getting data from analog channel 28.

That post also suggested to set a daily recording to insure that the DVR is tuned to the digital guide channel so that it will be likely to choose that channel. So today I set my 500 to record for 1 minute at 2 am, with the hope that it would eventually switch to channel 2.1. Immediately after I made this setting, the unit decided to reboot, but that wasn't a problem since the time reappeared within one minute after reboot ended. Tonight, I will set the same recording on my 250.

Ray
PS I searched the recent posts but couldn't locate the person who made the above suggestion.

The suggestion doesn't make any sense. When turned off, the recorder only downloads from the host channel. When turned on the recorder only downloads from the VBI channel (scheduled downloads on the host channel are blacklisted if the recorder is turned on). Clock data is received separately over the clock channel. Setting a recording to run just before a download in order to change the VBI channel isn't any different than changing the channel manually and turning the recorder off. The recorder will still only download from its host channel when off, which is what happens when the recording finishes. Host channels change on their own for no apparent reason and clock channels do the same, but with greater frequency. You can force either to a specific channel with procedures posted in this thread, but whether or not they stay set to that channel depends on external things such as availability of analog and digital channels, signal strength of available channels, the phases of the moon, sunspots, and solar flares.:D And there's even a little black magic involved in setting channels.;) Don't believe everything you read in this thread. Some contributers are more knowledgeable than others.

That post also suggested to set a daily recording to insure that the DVR is tuned to the digital guide channel so that it will be likely to choose that channel. So today I set my 500 to record for 1 minute at 2 am, with the hope that it would eventually switch to channel 2.1. Immediately after I made this setting, the unit decided to reboot, but that wasn't a problem since the time reappeared within one minute after reboot ended. Tonight, I will set the same recording on my 250.

Ray
PS I searched the recent posts but couldn't locate the person who made the above suggestion.

This may be the post you are refering to:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15971343&postcount=14166

This may be the post you are refering to:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15971343&postcount=14166

Thanks for finding that reference. Perhaps it's just a coincidence that on one of my units, both my data and clock channel changed from analog to digital by following the suggested procedure - tuning to the digital host channel before turning off the unit. Only thing I know for sure that is wrong with that procedure is that it calls for recording at lowest resolution, which is not possible since digital recordings are always made at max resolution. Also no need to make a half hour recording for the purpose of channel setting.
What I didn't mention in my previous post was that I had reset both of my units and that they initially locked on to the digital channel before switching to analog. There is no downside in trying this out for a week, and seeing what happens.

Ray



















Ray

Hi,

I live in central New Jersey and my local stations are out of New York.

I have not received TVGOS data since Feb. 17

I have done a full factory reset via Menu/Screen 9012

When in the G* test I get packet data on 2 channels, PBS-HD 13-1 and CBS-HD 2-1

When in the G* test it shows ver. 8.01.44

However when I check my data via SYSTEM 753159852 the current operating system is 8.06.44!

Also, the host channel is blank!

Last night I did the "VIB Search Current Channel" commnad 963214785.

This morning before work I took a brief check to see if I had a clock...STIIL NO CLOCK!


WHAT DO I NEED TO DO TO GET MY TVGUIDE BACK??????????



Thanks,


CJ

An interesting thing I noticed: If you run a G* Test and the VBI and ATSC fields are ---, the Clock Chan field is set to ffffffff; if you run a G* Test and the VBI and ATSC fields are 1023:65533, the Clock Chan field is set to fffffffd; and if you run a G* Test and the VBI and ATSC fields are the tuned channel, the Clock Chan field is set to the actual VBI channel that is tuned. Also, the value returned seems to vary depending upon the time of day. I am speculating that it may have something to do with which download is running on the selected VBI channel at the time of the test. I need to make some observations to prove or disprove this theory. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

Last night I ran the G* test and it read VBI 9.1 and ATSC 9.1 (my digital host). This morning it gave back 1023:65533.

Update from Arlington: After leaving my unit on all day yesterday and finally getting a clock, I once again tried to force a digital host and shut it down overnight. This morning...I have listings, but still no Host Channel in the 753 menu. Now, at this point I can either keep fooling around to get a host to stick and see how long I can keep getting guide data now or I can reset from scratch again. To recap, I've now gone from original TVGos firmware to the newest with guide and clock all digitally on fios.

This is the procedure that I have been using to test recovery from a full TVGOS reset in a digital only environment. Some of the steps are included in order to set up the environment for the test and some of the steps are to force the use of a digital source in an analog-rich test environment. Although some of you may already be in the reset situation, it won't hurt for you to follow the procedure exactly as written and I recommed that you do so (at least for the first attempt). Although many of the steps are independant of each other and the procedural actions could be run in a different order, I have experimented with other sequences and, in some cases, experienced a lockup or needed to do a soft reset. The sequence in the procedure makes logical sense. There is no Rocket Science here. Many of you have probably already tried most of this.

Step 10, forcing a digital channel, is a new procedure that seems to work all of the time and replaces the method I was previously using. The step may not be necessary at all in a digital only environment. I would suggest trying it at least the first time if you are digital only.

The procedure is written in a multiply indented format with each inward level of indentation expanding upon the outward level above it. This makes it absolutely clear what I was trying to do and enables those of you who are relatively new at this to easily do it without having to search for those procedures that aren't already familiar to you.

I have performed this on my own recorder many times without ill effect, however, I assume no responsibility if you choose to try it on your recorder. Good luck.


TEST PROCEDURE FOR RECOVERY FROM A FULL TVGOS RESET IN A DIGITAL ONLY ENVIRONMENT

1. Turn your recorder on

2. Locate a host channel
........Tune to a potential digital host channel
........Run the G* Test to confirm you are receiving TVGOS data on your intended digital host channel
............Enter the 9012 Service Menu
................press Menu
................press Screen Mode
................press 9, then 0, then 1, then 2
............Select the TV Guide entry
................scroll to the 5th menu item
................push Select
............Select the G* Test entry
................scroll to the 2nd menu item
................push Select
........Observe that the VBI packet counts increase and note how long it takes for this to start happening (it may take as long as 20-30 seconds for the counts to start increasing)
........Press Exit to stop the test
........If you didn't see the packet counts increasing, repeat step 2 using a different channel
........If no channel in your area tests positive for TVGOS data, stop here and start calling TV stations

3. Locate a channel you will use to force a digital clock channel later
........Tune to a channel you intend to test (does not need to contain TVGOS data)
........Run the G* Test
............Enter the 9012 Service Menu
................press Menu
................press Screen Mode
................press 9, then 0, then 1, then 2
............Select the TV Guide entry
................scroll to the 5th menu item
................push Select
............Select the G* Test entry
................scroll to the 2nd menu item
................push Select
........Observe the values in the Packet Statistics for: VBI and ATSC fields above the counts (it may take as long as 20-30 seconds for them to populate)
........Press Exit to stop the test
........If the fields contained --- or 1023:65533, repeat this step using a different channel
........If the fields contained the VBI channel, note the channel number
........Note: If you have tested all of your scanned channels and none pass this test then skip step 10 when you come to it

4. Disable the Auto Off feature (skip this step if you don't use this feature)
........press Menu
........select the Preferences entry (6th menu item)
........select the System entry (1st menu item)
........select the Auto Off entry (4th menu item)
........select the Off entry (second menu item)
........press Exit

5. Prepare the recorder for the recovery procedure (this may not be necessary, but it will correct any unusual state your recorder has entered)
........Turn the recorder off
........Perform a soft reset
............Press Exit and TV Guide at the same time
............Wait for the recorder to go through Welcome, the count to 06, and return to a blank display
........Turn the recorder on and tune to the channel you intend to use as a digital host channel

6. Reset the TV Guide to the factory default settings
........WARNING: If you are using the list option instead of the group option for your recordings, it will be reset to group. Also, some of your recordings may be listed as Unknown after the reset. Don't panic! After you reselect the list option, scroll down to the Unknown item in the recording list and press select, then press the Rec List button to refresh the display. You may need to go through several iterations of this, but eventualy all of you recordings will be displayed correctly.
........Enter 9012 service menu
............press Menu
............press Screen Mode
............press 9, then 0, then 1, then 2
........Select the TV Guide entry
............scroll to the 5th menu item
............push Select
........Reset to Factory Default
............select the 1st menu item (the reset happens immediately with no preceeding confirmation message)

7. Confirm that the TVGOS default software is installed and the host channel is blank
........Enter the 753159852 information display
............press Rec List
............press left arrow twice
............press down arrow once
............press 7, then 5, then 3, then 1, then 5, then 9, then 8, then 5, then 2
........On the Section System-System Info screen observe that the default TVGOS software is installed
............look at the second line (the one under the line that starts ID:)
............observe that the line begins with 08.01.42/00.00.00/
............if the numbers before the first / don't match those above, you have a different default version than most
............if the numbers between the first and second /s aren't all zeroes repeat steps 6 & 7 (Reset TVGOS to default and confirm software)
........On the Section System-Statistics screen observe that the host channel is blank
............press the right arrow once
............look at the fifth line that starts with Host Chan
............observe that no information is present to the right of this entry
........Press Exit

8. Acquire the intermediate TVGOS software update
........Leave the recorder tuned to your intended digital host channel
........Run the G* Test
............Enter the 9012 Service Menu
................press Menu
................press Screen Mode
................press 9, then 0, then 1, then 2
............Select the TV Guide entry
................scroll to the 5th menu item
................push Select
............Select the G* Test entry
................scroll to the 2nd menu item
................push Select
............Wait for the VBI packet counts to start increasing
........Stop the test and retune the channel
............press Exit
............tune to a different channel
............tune back to your intended digital host channel
........Leave the recorder on and wait overnight or until the next scheduled software update completes
........Verify that the software update was performed by entering the 753159852 information display
............press Rec List
............press left arrow twice
............press down arrow once
............press 7, then 5, then 3, then 1, then 5, then 9, then 8, then 5, then 2
........On the Section System-System Info screen observe that the TVGOS software was updated
............look at the second line (the one under the line that starts ID:)
............observe that the line begins with 08.01.42/8.05.40/
............if the numbers before the first / don't match those above, you have a different default version than most
............if the numbers between the first and second /s are still zeroes repeat this step (Acquire 1st TVGOS update)

9. Acquire the latest TVGOS software update
........Leave the recorder tuned to your intended digital host channel
........Run the G* Test
............Enter the 9012 Service Menu
................press Menu
................press Screen Mode
................press 9, then 0, then 1, then 2
............Select the TV Guide entry
................scroll to the 5th menu item
................push Select
............Select the G* Test entry
................scroll to the 2nd menu item
................push Select
............Wait for the VBI packet counts to start increasing
........Stop the test and retune the channel
............press Exit
............tune to a different channel
............tune back to your intended digital host channel
........Leave the recorder on and wait overnight or until the next scheduled software update completes
........Verify that the software update was performed by entering the 753159852 information display
............press Rec List
............press left arrow twice
............press down arrow once
............press 7, then 5, then 3, then 1, then 5, then 9, then 8, then 5, then 2
........On the Section System-System Info screen observe that the TVGOS software was updated
............look at the second line (the one under the line that starts ID:)
............observe that the line begins with 08.01.42/08.06.44/
............if the numbers before the first / don't match those above, you have a different default version than most
............if the numbers between the first and second /s are still 8.05.40 repeat this step (Acquire 2nd TVGOS update)

10. Verify/acquire a digital clock channel (this step may be unnecessary in a digital only environment)
........Enter the 753159852 information display
............press Rec List
............press left arrow twice
............press down arrow once
............press 7, then 5, then 3, then 1, then 5, then 9, then 8, then 5, then 2
........On the Section Other-Clocks 2 screen observe the Clock Set Chan
............press down arrow twice
............press right arrow once
............look at the last line, which starts with Clock Set Chan
............observe that a digital channel is to the right of this entry
............e.g. Clock Set Chan 0:9-1 (OTA CBS digital 9.1 in the Washington DC metropolitan area)
........If the Clock Set Chan is digital, skip the remainder of this step and proceed to step 11
........Tune the recorder to the channel noted in step 3
........Run the G* Test
............Enter the 9012 Service Menu
................press Menu
................press Screen Mode
................press 9, then 0, then 1, then 2
............Select the TV Guide entry
................scroll to the 5th menu item
................push Select
............Select the G* Test entry
................scroll to the 2nd menu item
................push Select
........Observe the values in the Packet Statistics for: VBI and ATSC fields above the counts are set to the tuned channel (it may take as long as 20-30 seconds for them to populate)
........Press Exit to stop the test
........Tune to the channel you intend to use as a digital host channel
........Enter the 753159852 information display
............press Rec List
............press left arrow twice
............press down arrow once
............press 7, then 5, then 3, then 1, then 5, then 9, then 8, then 5, then 2
........On the Section Other-Clocks 2 screen observe the Clock Set Chan
............press down arrow twice
............press right arrow once
............look at the last line, which starts with Clock Set Chan
............observe that the digital channel you selected is to the right of this entry
........Exit the display

11. Enter the TVGOS setup information
........press Rec List
........press left arrow twice
........press down arrow once
........push Select
........follow the setup instructions and make the appropriate entries

12. Force the host channel to your intended digital host channel
........Leave the recorder tuned to your intended digital host channel
........Perform a VBI host channel search
............press Rec List
............press left arrow twice
............press down arrow once
............press 9, then 6, then 3, then 2, then 1, then 4, then 7, then 8, then 5
............VBI Channel Search will appear in an info box below the first menu item
........Wait at least as long as the time noted in step 2
........Turn the recorder off
........Leave the recorder off overnight
........In the morning, turn the recorder on
........Verify that the host channel was updated by entering the 753159852 information display
............press Rec List
............press left arrow twice
............press down arrow once
............press 7, then 5, then 3, then 1, then 5, then 9, then 8, then 5, then 2
............press the right arrow once
........On the Section System-Statistics screen observe that the host channel is set to your digital channel
............look at the fifth line that starts with Host Chan
............observe that digital channel you selected is present to the right of this entry
............e.g. Host Chan 0:9-1 (OTA CBS digital 9.1 in the Washington DC metropolitan area)

13. Re-enable the Auto Off feature if you were using it before
........press Menu
........select the Preferences entry (6th menu item)
........select the System entry (1st menu item)
........select the Auto Off entry (4th menu item)
........select the On entry (second menu item)
........select the time you want your recorder to turn off
........select OK
........press Exit

14. Acquire station lineup and guide listings (some of this may have occurred during step 11)
........Turn the recorder off
........Leave the recorder off overnight
........In the morning arrange your station lineup
............press Rec List
............press left arrow twice
............press down arrow twice
............select Channel Editor
............arrange your station lineup
........Tune to the new host channel and leave the recorder on to download the guide listings
........Or turn the recorder off and wait for the listings to update overnight

The suggestion doesn't make any sense. When turned off, the recorder only downloads from the host channel. When turned on the recorder only downloads from the VBI channel (scheduled downloads on the host channel are blacklisted if the recorder is turned on). Clock data is received separately over the clock channel. Setting a recording to run just before a download in order to change the VBI channel isn't any different than changing the channel manually and turning the recorder off. The recorder will still only download from its host channel when off, which is what happens when the recording finishes. Host channels change on their own for no apparent reason and clock channels do the same, but with greater frequency. You can force either to a specific channel with procedures posted in this thread, but whether or not they stay set to that channel depends on external things such as availability of analog and digital channels, signal strength of available channels, the phases of the moon, sunspots, and solar flares.:D And there's even a little black magic involved in setting channels.;) Don't believe everything you read in this thread. Some contributers are more knowledgeable than others.

That's the problem with a lot of posts in this thread--- people assume the box has a mind of its own and getting digital TVGOS is "black magic".
If you think about it DHG is a computer box not a chimp or pet that have their own minds. As such computer box always has a logic that is reproducable all the time. By following this thread for the last three years and seeing what happened to everybody you have to think about the logic DHG uses to get the data and so forth. And here is the logic I can come up with that can reconcile with what has been observed during the last several years.
The fact is that DHGs can download TVG data about a dozen times day and fill the listings in a certain pattern. I think if HDG finds the full listings at its first try at around 2am then it won't update it and skip the rest of the downloads. At the beginning of the downloads if DHG finds VBI packets coming in it will just download the data and look no further. If it doesn't find VBI packets it will only scan ANALOG channels and find a host. The 753.. menu simply records what was last done on VBI and such, and it does NOT instruct DHG how and where to download TVGOS.
We should be thankful that DHG does not go much beyond that, otherwise we wouldn't have had the successes we already have.
That's why programming a short daily recording on the digital VBI channel should be all that's needed.
So quit messing around with your DHGs and try to enjoy the shows.

That's the problem with a lot of posts in this thread--- people assume the box has a mind of its own and getting digital TVGOS is "black magic".
If you think about it DHG is a computer box not a chimp or pet that have their own minds. As such computer box always has a logic that is reproducable all the time. By following this thread for the last three years and seeing what happened to everybody you have to think about the logic DHG uses to get the data and so forth. And here is the logic I can come up with that can reconcile with what has been observed during the last several years.
The fact is that DHGs can download TVG data about a dozen times day and fill the listings in a certain pattern. I think if HDG finds the full listings at its first try at around 2am then it won't update it and skip the rest of the downloads. At the beginning of the downloads if DHG finds VBI packets coming in it will just download the data and look no further. If it doesn't find VBI packets it will only scan ANALOG channels and find a host. The 753.. menu simply records what was last done on VBI and such, and it does NOT instruct DHG how and where to download TVGOS.
We should be thankful that DHG does not go much beyond that, otherwise we wouldn't have had the successes we already have.
That's why programming a short daily recording on the digital VBI channel should be all that's needed.
So quit messing around with your DHGs and try to enjoy the shows.

First of all, the digital VBI channel is whatever the last channel is that you tuned on your recorder and may not have TVGOS data at all. Second, tuning to a channel and turning the recorder off (which is effectively what you are doing with a daily recording) will not make the recorder download from that channel while it is off, it will only download using its host channel when it is off. Third, recording from a digital channel that does contain TVGOS data is only effective in getting listings while while it is recording and then only if you record long enough and at the right time to coincide with a scheduled listings download (which needs to be at least two and a half hours to ensure that you get all of the download IDs). And I'm not sure if that is even true since the recorder doesn't actually turn on completely, I'm not sure if it will download from its host channel or VBI channel when recording while turned off. Fourth, this is entirely unnecessary because this is what your host channel does for you (if you don't have a host channel, then getting your listings is the least of your problems). Fifth, didn't you see the smileys after the references to solar flares and black magic? This was me being funny.

It is a fact that these recorders change host and clock channels randomly. It has nothing to do with the logic in the recorder and everything to do with reception, signal strength, and atmospheric conditions, which the recorder has no control over. It responds to changing conditions by adjusting where it gets its data.

We are enjoying the shows. Don't stick your head in the sand and ignore the real problems or you may have a brick on your hands after June 12th.

... it will only download using its host channel when it is off..... you may have a brick on your hands after June 12th.
No, download will take place even if the host channel is blank. So DHG does NOT look at that 753 page for download instructions. People got so hung up on the idea that you've got to have a "host channel" on the data page to download TVGOS. That is apparently not the case.
At this point I think that people on this board should be pretty confident DHGs will work after June 12th. I don't feel we should waste much time doing repeated testing to prove that point.

Before I went to bed last night, I tuned both my DVRs to OTA CBS 2.1, as suggested by a recent post, to get the units to get guide and clock data from that source. At that time, both were getting that data from analog OTA PBS channel 28. Today, my 250 is getting guide and clock data from CBS 2.1, and my 500, which has a cable card, is still getting data from analog channel 28.

Ray


Ray, FYI even though the host channel displays 2-1, when the units are turned off they are still using the analog host. Over here in the SGV mine prefer FOX 11. When the units are turned on they download from 2-1, but off = analog until 11 & 28 are gone. I've been documenting this behavior because I too thought seeing 2-1 as host meant that was the only channel being used. Not so. :D

No, download will take place even if the host channel is blank. So DHG does NOT look at that 753 page for download instructions. People got so hung up on the idea that you've got to have a "host channel" on the data page to download TVGOS. That is apparently not the case.
At this point I think that people on this board should be pretty confident DHGs will work after June 12th. I don't feel we should waste much time doing repeated testing to prove that point.

Haven't you been reading the thread? There are already people who have lost all of their analog stations, lost their host channel, and can't get channel lineups or listings. There IS a problem that needs to be dealt with now, while we can prevent our recorders from becoming non-functional. Your method of getting listings won't work the first time you lose your channel lineup.

Haven't you been reading the thread? There are already people who have lost all of their analog stations, lost their host channel, and can't get channel lineups or listings. There IS a problem that needs to be dealt with now, while we can prevent our recorders from becoming non-functional. Your method of getting listings won't work the first time you lose your channel lineup.

That's because they either don't have a digital VBI channel or they haven't tried this little procedure yet.

ImTheOne you put a lot of effort into that procedure. :) I have a few observations that you may wish to consider.

I believe step 11 should be moved up between steps 7 & 8.
The G* test performed in step 8 SHOULD reacquire current UTC (GMT) date & time but it would be a good idea to verify that it did.
My reasoning is that a correct clock cannot be set without current UTC and your zip code.

When recovering from a hard reset using an analog host, the intermediate 08.05.40 software is able to set the clock. I can think of no reason it should be different using a digital host.

One other small point from my experience: using Exit to stop the G* test doesn't always stop it. Pressing Exit twice seems to work, or briefly turning the unit off and back on will do it too.

I don't understand the reasons for steps 3 and 10 at all, but I note you did say they may be unneccessary.

Ray, FYI even though the host channel displays 2-1, when the units are turned off they are still using the analog host. Over here in the SGV mine prefer FOX 11. When the units are turned on they download from 2-1, but off = analog until 11 & 28 are gone. I've been documenting this behavior because I too thought seeing 2-1 as host meant that was the only channel being used. Not so. :D

Well, that kind of proves my hypothesis: if the DHG stays on the channel you last tuned to (other than CBS digital) it will not find VBI data when it starts downloading TVG, and then it will ONLY scan analog channels to find a host. I wonder what if you set a little recording at 2.1 right before the download time every day.

Well, that kind of proves my hypothesis: if the DHG stays on the channel you last tuned to (other than CBS digital) it will not find VBI data when it starts downloading TVG, and then it will ONLY scan analog channels to find a host. I wonder what if you set a little recording at 2.1 right before the download time every day.

Nope, doesn't matter. Oftentimes, 2-1 is the last tuned channel because I record from it frequently. Both of my units (I have 500 & 250) still use analog 11 when they are off.

Well, that kind of proves my hypothesis: if the DHG stays on the channel you last tuned to (other than CBS digital) it will not find VBI data when it starts downloading TVG, and then it will ONLY scan analog channels to find a host. I wonder what if you set a little recording at 2.1 right before the download time every day.

I agree with you about all of the hyper-concerns posted here. It is a machine and will do what the machine is programmed to do. But I also 'feel the pain' for those who are having host download issues. The G* test and set channel procedures work well. I'm not sure I agree with the above statement, however, because (and I can only relay my experience with my machine), I often am watching FOX network before shutting it down overnight. However, once I had my CBS digital station set as a host channel, that has not changed and downloads have consistently taken place no matter what station I finished watching before shutting down. There are still a couple of analog holdouts in our area (they do not transmit the TVGOS data), but I have them 'turned off' in the channel editor - don't know whether that matters in your hypothesis or not.

I did find your procedure an interesting suggestion and printed it out for future reference. If the G* test AND the Set VBI Current Channel procedures do not work, your concept is quite sound.

Thank you for your contributions. They are very helpful.

ImTheOne you put a lot of effort into that procedure. :) I have a few observations that you may wish to consider.

I believe step 11 should be moved up between steps 7 & 8.
The G* test performed in step 8 SHOULD reacquire current UTC (GMT) date & time but it would be a good idea to verify that it did.
My reasoning is that a correct clock cannot be set without current UTC and your zip code.

When recovering from a hard reset using an analog host, the intermediate 08.05.40 software is able to set the clock. I can think of no reason it should be different using a digital host.

One other small point from my experience: using Exit to stop the G* test doesn't always stop it. Pressing Exit twice seems to work, or briefly turning the unit off and back on will do it too.

I don't understand the reasons for steps 3 and 10 at all, but I note you did say they may be unneccessary.

The sole purpose of step 3 is to get a channel to use in step 10. The reason for step 10 is to force the recorder to use a digital clock channel to acquire time instead of an available analog source (this is necessary for testing purposes, but may not be necessary for an actual recovery in a digital only environment, although it still may be if the recorder can't find the digital clock channel on its own). By doing this step, you guarantee that the recorder will obtain time from a digital source when you turn the recorder off to allow it to acquire a host channel.

I originally performed step 11 immediately after the TVGOS reset, but changed it for a reason. The rationale is as follows: In the old analog world, the procedure would be to perform a TVGOS reset, which would load the default software. You would then enter the setup information, turn the recorder off, and leave it off overnight for the unit to get the clock and host channel. The way this procedure is now written is analagous to that process. After the reset, the default software is loaded and updated to the most current version. Then the setup information is entered. And finally, the recorder is turned off to acquire the time and host channel. Also, when doing it the other way, I ran into situations that required a soft reset or had a lockup that required a soft reset. I can't say that this was the cause, but I haven't experienced a problem since I changed the procedure.

I only use one exit from the G* Test because I want it to keep running. Each software download stops the test and I have observed that if the test is not running, there is no incrementing of packet counts in the 753... information screens, which means that the recorder in not processing TVGOS data from the VBI channel (I could be wrong about that and you could try the procedure with two exits from the G* Tests). I am reluctant to turn the unit off during testing because of all of those evil analog channels lurking out there.:D

Remember, this is a test procedure to see if you can recover from a TVGOS reset in a digital-only environment, not a recovery procedure. If the testing works, the actions to set up the test environment need to be removed to create the actual recovery procedure. Then the recovery procedure needs to be tested to make sure that too much was not removed.

Hope this explains my reasoning clearly and answers your questions.

Sometimes when I run the G* Test I get 1023:65533 for the VBI and ATSC values and sometimes I get the actual VBI channel that is tuned. I am having to modify my procedure slightly because I was using the G* Test to force a digital clock channel and I noticed that it only seems to set the Clock Chan field to the digital station when the G* Test returns the tuned channel in the VBI and ATSC fields, not when it returns 1023:65533 in these fields. When the G* Test returns 1023:65533, the Clock Chan field is set to ffffffff. If I can't resolve this, I'll post the procedure anyway and you and Chip Chanko can have at it.

I don't know if you resolved this issue or not, but I found the key to what causes this. If I have been tuned to my desired host channel (that passes the VBI test) for a while, when I run the G* Test I always get 1023-65533. This is why I always saw 1023-65533 because I was always leaving the DVR on my desired host channel whenever I was messing with it. All I have to do to get the actual channel to show up when I run the test is to switch to a different channel, and then back to my VBI channel before running the G* Test. I would say 3 out of 4 times of doing this caused the actual channel to be displayed instead of 1023-65533.

Mark

No, download will take place even if the host channel is blank. So DHG does NOT look at that 753 page for download instructions. People got so hung up on the idea that you've got to have a "host channel" on the data page to download TVGOS. That is apparently not the case.


I agree with what GodobeHD says here. My host was blank for most of January, but I got listings every night.

Mark

I don't know if you resolved this issue or not, but I found the key to what causes this. If I have been tuned to my desired host channel (that passes the VBI test) for a while, when I run the G* Test I always get 1023-65533. This is why I always saw 1023-65533 because I was always leaving the DVR on my desired host channel whenever I was messing with it. All I have to do to get the actual channel to show up when I run the test is to switch to a different channel, and then back to my VBI channel before running the G* Test. I would say 3 out of 4 times of doing this caused the actual channel to be displayed instead of 1023-65533.

Mark

Not the case here. Tried switching from station to station to station and running G* Test after each switch. Some stations show as ---, some as 1023-65533, and some show the actual channel number. Tried leaving on the same station and testing at various points in the day. Same station had different results throughout the day. Thought it might have something to do with what TVGOS data was downloading, but got differing results on statons not carrying TVGOS data. No plausible theory at the moment.

If you read what I wrote above the procedure that I posted, you would have seen that I found a different way to force the clock set channel to a digital channel that yields more consistent results.

FYI.
2 500's OTA only.
I left them both on for 2 days and nights set to 2.1.
Both show no host and ffffffd for clock channel but all listings and clock are correct.
Turned one unit off last night (last channel 2-1).
Unit left on - Full listings and correct clock - no host or clock channel shown.
Unit turned off - Missing part of day 8 of listings, host now shows 0-2, clock channel shows 2-1? Other than last part of day 8 everything else is correct.
As far as I can tell my current available hosts are 0-11, 0-2, 2-1.
FWIW.
I have one off those fancy smancy watchs that sets itself 2 or 3 times every night from the atomic clock in Denver and compare it to both of my 500's, they are never off by more than 1 to 5 seconds under normal conditions.
The one left on flips about 2 secs before the other.

It should be obvious by now that there is no point of "forcing host", "forcing clock", forcing whatever, or soft reset, hard reset, cold reset, warm reset,.... All it matters is that when download happens the unit is tuned to digital VBI channel, it doesn't even matter if the unit is on or off. Yes its necessary to perform a G* test to check that you have got a ditigal VBI channel, but beyond that just make sure your 250/500 is tuned to the channel when downloads takes place. Here are the download times:

2:21 AM (180 minutes)
7:01 AM (180 minutes)
10:06 AM (180 minutes)
1:46 PM (180 minutes)

12:41 AM (30 minutes)
1:11 PM (30 minutes)
11:01 PM (30 minutes)
1:16 AM (60 minutes)
5:56 AM (60 minutes)
5:46 PM (60 minutes)
11:36 PM (60 minutes)

I would say never worry about the 753.. data page, that ugly page is not even colored.

It should be obvious by now that there is no point of "forcing host", "forcing clock", forcing whatever, or soft reset, hard reset, cold reset, warm reset,.... All it matters is that when download happens the unit is tuned to digital VBI channel, it doesn't even matter if the unit is on or off. Yes its necessary to perform a G* test to check that you have got a ditigal VBI channel, but beyond that just make sure your 250/500 is tuned to the channel when downloads takes place. Here are the download times:

2:21 AM (180 minutes)
7:01 AM (180 minutes)
10:06 AM (180 minutes)
1:46 PM (180 minutes)
...


Sorry, I don't buy it. I'm in the midst of trying to get program information on my DHG. This morning I tuned to 2-1, which receives VBI packets. I did both the G* Test and the VBI Search Channel things, then turned the TV off. It was off for the 10:06 AM and 1:46 PM download times. I checked the DHG after 7 PM. No program listings.

Dave Kristol

It should be obvious by now that there is no point of "forcing host", "forcing clock", forcing whatever, or soft reset, hard reset, cold reset, warm reset,.... All it matters is that when download happens the unit is tuned to digital VBI channel, it doesn't even matter if the unit is on or off. Yes its necessary to perform a G* test to check that you have got a ditigal VBI channel, but beyond that just make sure your 250/500 is tuned to the channel when downloads takes place. Here are the download times:

2:21 AM (180 minutes)
7:01 AM (180 minutes)
10:06 AM (180 minutes)
1:46 PM (180 minutes)

12:41 AM (30 minutes)
1:11 PM (30 minutes)
11:01 PM (30 minutes)
1:16 AM (60 minutes)
5:56 AM (60 minutes)
5:46 PM (60 minutes)
11:36 PM (60 minutes)

I would say never worry about the 753.. data page, that ugly page is not even colored.

Your DL schedule must be different than my PST schedule. That doesn't even match my analog sched. The digital sched is way different.

I agree that when we are all digital, it shouldn't matter if the units are on or off. Right now, with analog hosts still available in many areas it does make a difference.

Sorry, I don't buy it. I'm in the midst of trying to get program information on my DHG. This morning I tuned to 2-1, which receives VBI packets. I did both the G* Test and the VBI Search Channel things, then turned the TV off. It was off for the 10:06 AM and 1:46 PM download times. I checked the DHG after 7 PM. No program listings.

Dave Kristol

Dave, I've lost track of where your recovery is, but I think you have current software (08.06.44) and your clock is right. If I were you at this point, I would just tune to the digital host and leave unit on. No G* test, no VBI search. Just see what happens.

February 17th I also lost my host and VBI channel when the local ETV station shut down their analog signal. I have a cable card in my DHG-HDD250 and at that point I had several years of trouble free use. As of February 17th I lost all digital channels both cable and OTA. I ran the G* test and it failed everytime and reset the cable card with no luck. I'm affraid to power it down or do a complete reset that I might lost my clock which also came from the same ETV station. I do have it plugged into a battery backup. My closest CBS station is in Savannah, Ga and I spoke with their engineer and he knew nothing about the TVGOS guide. I then called Macrovision and spoke with one of their engineer's, he going to work on the guide for this area. How long that will take no one knows. I can still use it by doing manual recordings and recording only analog signals but in the meantime would like to get my digital ones back if possible. I would pleased like to hear from you with a suggestions. My question, is it normal to lost digital channels when losting the guide? There is a lot of knowledge and info on this site, so please keep it up the great service all of you are doing. :)

Thanks,
Eddie

Sorry, I don't buy it. I'm in the midst of trying to get program information on my DHG. This morning I tuned to 2-1, which receives VBI packets. I did both the G* Test and the VBI Search Channel things, then turned the TV off. It was off for the 10:06 AM and 1:46 PM download times. I checked the DHG after 7 PM. No program listings.

Dave Kristol

Dave,

I agree with Possumgirl, I think it is time to leave the DVR on overnight tuned to the host channel (although I would run the G* Test). I got to the same point as you are now (in fact I'm at that point again), and I ran the G* Test starting at 8:00am, and around 3:00pm I had all my listings. This time I wanted to avoid doing that, but I seem to be at a point where nothing more is going to happen. The only thing new that has happened in the last 24 hours is that ads showed up overnight. The DVR is doing some downloading on its own, but it sure takes a lot longer than it should.

Mark

Just an observation from outside the box here:), but I've been keeping up with this forum even though I don't have a Sony DHG because my Mits DLP had the same version TVGOS most of you all do until I updated it.

You may want to state what your base version is as I've noticed some posters stating 08.01.42, 08.01.44, etc. AND YES, it probably makes a difference as I originally had 08.02.44 and now have 08.01.71.

Also note that Macrovision is still trying to get their digital inserters installed and passing all 3 digital streams across the U.S, so some areas may be transmitting the requisite data while others are not.

Even though I now have a digital compatible version, I still don't have a digital host (analog PBS still transmits here even though digital CBS does also).

I went through a month of doing exactly what you're all talking about.

I only use one exit from the G* Test because I want it to keep running. Each software download stops the test and I have observed that if the test is not running, there is no incrementing of packet counts in the 753... information screens, which means that the recorder in not processing TVGOS data from the VBI channel (I could be wrong about that and you could try the procedure with two exits from the G* Tests). I am reluctant to turn the unit off during testing because of all of those evil analog channels lurking out there.:D


My packet count is always incrementing in the 753... menu (if I'm on my digital host channel). It has been since Thursday at 6:53 am. How do I know? If you go into the 753 menu and up arrow once, the field at the top on the right side says PowerOn and mine has the date 3/5/09 12:53:30 (6:53am CST). That was when I ran the G* Test for the first time after getting the software updated to 08.06.44. When I went into the 753... menu I noticed the packet counts weren't updating, so on a whim I ran the G* Test to make sure there was VBI data there. When I went back to the 753... menu the packet count had started incrementing, and then as I was looking around, I noticed the PowerOn field had been set very recently. Is my non-stop packet count happening because the downloads aren't happening to interrupt it?

Mark

Dave, I've lost track of where your recovery is, but I think you have current software (08.06.44) and your clock is right. If I were you at this point, I would just tune to the digital host and leave unit on. No G* test, no VBI search. Just see what happens.

Correct. Current software, good clock. The one thing I have not done, and am trying, is to leave the DHG powered on, set to the digital host. We'll see tomorrow morning how that goes. Thanks.

Dave Kristol

Basically, the Sony Chat Person I made reference to several post back; implied when Houston goes to 100% digital OTA, then I do nothing and the box will do what needs to be done. I do not have to install software/firmware upgrade, it will take care of itself.

Of course I am still waiting for my lottery check too!

Dave,

I agree with Possumgirl, I think it is time to leave the DVR on overnight tuned to the host channel (although I would run the G* Test). I got to the same point as you are now (in fact I'm at that point again), and I ran the G* Test starting at 8:00am, and around 3:00pm I had all my listings. This time I wanted to avoid doing that, but I seem to be at a point where nothing more is going to happen. The only thing new that has happened in the last 24 hours is that ads showed up overnight. The DVR is doing some downloading on its own, but it sure takes a lot longer than it should.

Mark

Well, now I can report that I have done so, left the DVR on overnight tuned to the (presumed) host channel, and... nothing. Still no listings. I've got ads, I've got time. But my Host Channel is still blank. The G* test actually produces counts on three different channels. I tried 2-1 (CBS). I am now trying 13-1 (PBS).

Bear in mind I'm on (Comcast) cable. Has anyone else on a cable system gotten listings with no analog TVGOS channel?

Dave Kristol

Well, now I can report that I have done so, left the DVR on overnight tuned to the (presumed) host channel, and... nothing. Still no listings. I've got ads, I've got time. But my Host Channel is still blank. The G* test actually produces counts on three different channels. I tried 2-1 (CBS). I am now trying 13-1 (PBS).

Bear in mind I'm on (Comcast) cable. Has anyone else on a cable system gotten listings with no analog TVGOS channel?

Dave Kristol

Same result here. No channel lineup after leaving the DVR on overnight running the G* Test. I'm OTA only, but I do have access to cable, I just don't have it hooked up to the DVR. I could resolve all my problems by hooking up to cable (my analog DVR has full listings, and updates every night from analog CBS on cable). I guess the digital CBS is could still be having problems (they told me they were, but I thought they were resolved when I got 8 days of listings last Sunday). I just left the DVR on again running the G* Test, and I'll see if anything happens today.

Mark

Even though I now have a digital compatible version, I still don't have a digital host (analog PBS still transmits here even though digital CBS does also).

I went through a month of doing exactly what you're all talking about.

Are you saying that you can't get data from your digital host, or that you can get data from them, but your analog host keeps taking over so you gave up trying to trick it into using the digital host for now?

Mark

Anybody else using 0-11 as thier host...OTA only? I was gone most this week and when I came back Thursday had very few listings. It has not updated, or changed hosts since. I've been on 0-11 for about two weeks.....

My packet count is always incrementing in the 753... menu (if I'm on my digital host channel). It has been since Thursday at 6:53 am. How do I know? If you go into the 753 menu and up arrow once, the field at the top on the right side says PowerOn and mine has the date 3/5/09 12:53:30 (6:53am CST). That was when I ran the G* Test for the first time after getting the software updated to 08.06.44. When I went into the 753... menu I noticed the packet counts weren't updating, so on a whim I ran the G* Test to make sure there was VBI data there. When I went back to the 753... menu the packet count had started incrementing, and then as I was looking around, I noticed the PowerOn field had been set very recently. Is my non-stop packet count happening because the downloads aren't happening to interrupt it?

Mark

If you run a G* Test and leave the recorder on, it will try to receive TVGOS data from the VBI (currently tuned) channel regardless of whether or not it is present. It will continue to try to receive TVGOS data if you change channels. In fact, it will continue until you stop it or you turn the recorder off OR you receive a software update via a download. That is why, during the recovery process, you need to run the G* Test in order to receive the intermediate software download and run it again in order to receive the final software download. If you leave the recorder on and don't run the G* Test, you won't get the software updates. If you have a host channel and turn the recorder off you will get the updates without running the G* Test.

The best place to observe that you are receiving TVGOS data is to go to either the Section ATSC-ATSC Slicer screen or the Section Reception-Slicing 2 screen. On the Section ATSC-ATSC Slicer screen, observe that the TVG count is increasing. On the Section Reception-Slicing 2 screen observe that the counts are increasing (probably only the Dummy counts for total and current channel will increase). The first column shows total count, the second column shows count from the host channel, and the third column shows count from the current channel.

The Power On field has nothing to do with running the G* Test. I just ran it a couple of times to confirm this and the date and time in the Power On field did not change after running it.

Correct. Current software, good clock. The one thing I have not done, and am trying, is to leave the DHG powered on, set to the digital host. We'll see tomorrow morning how that goes. Thanks.

Dave Kristol

As I understand it, the host channel won't set unless the recorder it turned off. You can receive TVGOS data with the recorder on and you can receive clock data with the recorder on, but unless I'm mistaken, you need to turn the recorder off to establish a host channel. I think that in your current state, your best two options are to either turn the recorder off and wait or issue a 963214785 command (VBI search channel) and turn the recorder off. Just my two cents.

2-500's OTA only
See my post onpage 474 near the bottom.

ChrisS5, currently one machine is using 0-2 for host and now clock set.
Now missing days 7 and 8 of the listings but correct clock.
The other i've been leaving turned on and set to 2-1. No host or clock set shows but all listings and time are fine.
FYI-After reading your post I tried VBI for 0-11 and it was very good.
I would try doing the G*test on 11 and leave it on all night to see what happens.

Are you saying that you can't get data from your digital host, or that you can get data from them, but your analog host keeps taking over so you gave up trying to trick it into using the digital host for now?

Mark

He is saying that his software version is compatible with digital broadcasts, but that he is still receiving his data from an analog host.

If you have a host channel and turn the recorder off you will get the updates without running the G* Test.

I have been using the "recorder off" method to get the updates, clock, and even ads, but my host channel has been blank the whole time. I honestly don't believe the host channel field indicates anything other than what channel the DHG last recieved guide data from. Since mine hasn't been recieving guide data, that field is blank.

The best place to observe that you are receiving TVGOS data is to go to either the Section ATSC-ATSC Slicer screen or the Section Reception-Slicing 2 screen. On the Section ATSC-ATSC Slicer screen, observe that the TVG count is increasing. On the Section Reception-Slicing 2 screen observe that the counts are increasing (probably only the Dummy counts for total and current channel will increase). The first column shows total count, the second column shows count from the host channel, and the third column shows count from the current channel.

I'm realising now that this screen could be the most important screen to determine if things are working right. On my DHG, Screen 1 is all zeros. Screen 2 is all zeros except the dummy count current channel, and, total fields. In 4 days none of the other fields have incremented at all. This indicates to me that something is broke on the data end of things, and not the DHG end. I fiinally caved in and connected my cable line to the unit, and switched to the CBS analog cable channel. I ran the G* Test, and then went into the 753... menu, and looked at these two screens, and there is already counts incrementing in some of those zero fields.

The Power On field has nothing to do with running the G* Test. I just ran it a couple of times to confirm this and the date and time in the Power On field did not change after running it.

That is right, the PowerOn field doesn't change, but mine started out as -1 after 8.6.44 loaded. Then I noticed I had no incrementing counts in the 753... screen, and I ran the G* Test, at which point the PowerOn field was set to that time (as if the G* Test kick started the VBI data retrieval engine). Now without running the G* Test the counts are incrementing every time I go into the 753... menu (as long as I am tuned to my "host" channel) even after I have powered the unit off and on (which it has been off most of the time the last 4 days).

I'm going to take a break from this, and let the cable channel CBS update my unit for a week or so. I don't know how I was able to get the guide data last Sunday, but it must have been a fluke. Maybe my CBS digital feed will be working again in a week or so.

Mark

Well, now I can report that I have done so, left the DVR on overnight tuned to the (presumed) host channel, and... nothing. Still no listings. I've got ads, I've got time. But my Host Channel is still blank.


Dave,
Have you heard from anyone else in your area that has one of these DHG units, to see if they are still getting listings? I'm pretty much convinced that the digital TVGOS data in my area is just broken, and I'm going to revert to letting the cable CBS channel update my unit for awhile, until it gets resolved, or I find out for sure that it isn't broken.

Mark

[...]
That is why, during the recovery process, you need to run the G* Test in order to receive the intermediate software download and run it again in order to receive the final software download. If you leave the recorder on and don't run the G* Test, you won't get the software updates.

I don't think that's entirely true. I got two updates overnight without my intervening.

Dave Kristol

[...]
I'm realising now that this screen [Slicing 2] could be the most important screen to determine if things are working right. On my DHG, Screen 1 is all zeros. Screen 2 is all zeros except the dummy count current channel, and, total fields. In 4 days none of the other fields have incremented at all. This indicates to me that something is broke on the data end of things, and not the DHG end. I fiinally caved in and connected my cable line to the unit, and switched to the CBS analog cable channel. I ran the G* Test, and then went into the 753... menu, and looked at these two screens, and there is already counts incrementing in some of those zero fields.


Hmmm, well,.... I've been getting clock and packets via digital channels over cable, but no program listings. For jollies I tried the G* test on the CBS and PBS analog stations (via cable) here and got nothing. So it looks like it's either digital for me or nothing.

Oh, I could try OTA, I guess (the opposite of what you did). It'll just be a hassle to get to the back of the DVR to plug it in.

Anyone out there in the NYC area getting program listings over a digital channel, either cable or OTA??

Dave Kristol

I have been using the "recorder off" method to get the updates, clock, and even ads, but my host channel has been blank the whole time. I honestly don't believe the host channel field indicates anything other than what channel the DHG last recieved guide data from. Since mine hasn't been recieving guide data, that field is blank.


My observation is that whenever the Host Chan field changes, the recorder has downloaded a new channel lineup requiring me to resort the lineup and turn channels on/off again. This would logically correspond to the recorder switching host channels and getting a new lineup for the area serviced by the new host channel. The only hypothesis I can propose for why a recorder can receive listing updates without a host channel when turned off is that there may be a glitch in the software that sometimes blanks the entry on the information screen even though the recorder still has a host channel. I don't like to blame things on software without proof, but the TVGOS software isn't infallible. The alternative is that the recorder is somehow downloading TVGOS data without a host channel when it is turned off. If so, what is the source? And if what you say is correct, then why isn't the Host Chan field filled in when your recorder gets its listing updates?


That is right, the PowerOn field doesn't change, but mine started out as -1 after 8.6.44 loaded. Then I noticed I had no incrementing counts in the 753... screen, and I ran the G* Test, at which point the PowerOn field was set to that time (as if the G* Test kick started the VBI data retrieval engine). Now without running the G* Test the counts are incrementing every time I go into the 753... menu (as long as I am tuned to my "host" channel) even after I have powered the unit off and on (which it has been off most of the time the last 4 days).


I believe that the Power On field is set whenever a soft reset or hard reset is performed.

Hmmm, well,.... I've been getting clock and packets via digital channels over cable, but no program listings. For jollies I tried the G* test on the CBS and PBS analog stations (via cable) here and got nothing. So it looks like it's either digital for me or nothing.

Oh, I could try OTA, I guess (the opposite of what you did). It'll just be a hassle to get to the back of the DVR to plug it in.

Anyone out there in the NYC area getting program listings over a digital channel, either cable or OTA??

Dave Kristol

I've just been talking to another guy on this forum who lives in Wichita and has a DHG, and his DHG has been working fine since last weekend. So the problems CBS was having are apparently resolved, and now the problem seems to be on my end again.

Mark

I don't think that's entirely true. I got two updates overnight without my intervening.

Dave Kristol

I'm surprised. I believe that I got this information from one of Frank70,s procedures. After receiving a software download during recovery testing, I observed that the counts stop increasing on the Section ATSC-ATSC Slicer screen and Section Reception-Slicing 2 screen. They started increasing again when I ran the G* Test. I have also observed during testing that I don't get software updates after a complete TVGOS reset if I don't run the G* Test. I suppose its worth running another test.

I'm realising now that this screen could be the most important screen to determine if things are working right. On my DHG, Screen 1 is all zeros. Screen 2 is all zeros except the dummy count current channel, and, total fields. In 4 days none of the other fields have incremented at all. This indicates to me that something is broke on the data end of things, and not the DHG end. I fiinally caved in and connected my cable line to the unit, and switched to the CBS analog cable channel. I ran the G* Test, and then went into the 753... menu, and looked at these two screens, and there is already counts incrementing in some of those zero fields.

On the first screen, there should be entries for about two thirds of the fields under the total and host columns and all zeros under the current column. On the second screen, there should only be entries on the Dummy line. This is based on observations from both of my recorders, which are both functioning normally.

On the first screen, there should be entries for about two thirds of the fields under the total and host columns and all zeros under the current column. On the second screen, there should only be entries on the Dummy line. This is based on observations from both of my recorders, which are both functioning normally.

Well, it definitely wasn't right, because all 3 columns were zeros.

Thanks for all your testing, and input on this.

I got to thinking about my reset last Tuesday, and how I haven't completely recovered from it. I wondered if maybe something wasn't quite right after that which is why I haven't got listings. So, I abandoned my cable idea, and went back to my OTA antenna. Then I did a TV-Guide -- Reset Factory Default, but I only did it once so I maintained the current sofware version. I set up the TV Guide, and re-scanned my channels. Then I ran the G* Test so it showed the right channel info. Then I verified that the 753 menu clock is set correctly, and the Clock Channel is showing as 0:12-1. Then I exited, turned the DVR off, and I'm going to leave it off until morning to see what happens (I didn't even do the 'VBI Search Channel' procedure). I figure since there is only one host, it should find it on its own.

Mark

Are you saying that you can't get data from your digital host, or that you can get data from them, but your analog host keeps taking over so you gave up trying to trick it into using the digital host for now?

MarkCan't get it to stick to the digital host channel since it sees an analog host channel on cable (cc chan 90). I'm using both cable and OTA. Only way I could create an all digital environment now would be to disconnect my cable and use OTA only since my OTA UHF antenna doesn't pickup the low-VHF analog host. I'm not going to disconnect cable to test it.

He is saying that his software version is compatible with digital broadcasts, but that he is still receiving his data from an analog host.Correct. I can tune to CBS digital , run the G* Test and it will increment ATSC Slicing packets and update listings, but won't change the host channel to CBS digital.

Just an observation from outside the box here:), but I've been keeping up with this forum even though I don't have a Sony DHG because my Mits DLP had the same version TVGOS most of you all do until I updated it.

You may want to state what your base version is as I've noticed some posters stating 08.01.42, 08.01.44, etc. AND YES, it probably makes a difference as I originally had 08.02.44 and now have 08.01.71.

Also note that Macrovision is still trying to get their digital inserters installed and passing all 3 digital streams across the U.S, so some areas may be transmitting the requisite data while others are not.

Even though I now have a digital compatible version, I still don't have a digital host (analog PBS still transmits here even though digital CBS does also).

I went through a month of doing exactly what you're all talking about.Here's one poster that says he has v08.01.44 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11887406)

Here's one poster that says he has v08.01.44 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11887406)

Notice that he said latest version 08.01.44 in the post. I think that he is confusing the default version 08.01.42 with the latest version 08.06.44 or it was just a typo for the latter.

Notice that he said latest version 08.01.44 in the post. I think that he is confusing the default version 08.01.42 with the latest version 08.06.44 or it was just a typo for the latter.The forum search here isn't too helpful since it only does keyword searches. Had to download the thread as a text file and search with notepad.
Here's another one from yesterday. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15981900)
Maybe these people updated the Sony firmware or sent the unit back to Sony for repair?

Anybody else using 0-11 as thier host...OTA only? I was gone most this week and when I came back Thursday had very few listings. It has not updated, or changed hosts since. I've been on 0-11 for about two weeks.....Yep, and I've been getting uninterrupted listings all along.

FWIW, my clock changed to EDT overnight and I continue to have full listings for both Toronto and Buffalo markets including OTA & cable. The system does work if all the pieces are in place.

Okay, for those who have been following my saga (and offering help -- thanks!), here's where things stand this morning.

- My clock picked up DST correctly
- My DHG has been turned off for at least 16 hrs, last tuned to a channel that carries VBI packets. I have no program listings. My Host Channel remains blank.
- Everything else seems fine.

Looks like it's time to call TVGOS to see whether I've hit a locale-specific problem. What I don't understand is that I was receiving listings prior to my "power event," which was *after* 2/17. So my problem would appear to be the inability to establish a digital Host Channel, although I had one before (I hypothesize).

Dave Kristol

I am starting to think that " host channel" is a red herring. I lost time and listings after the Feb. changeover as the result of a spontaneous reset. Being OTA only in the Tampa Bay area, my Sony 250 refused to accept accept any help suggested on this forum, except to gain the correct time for several days, but it then lost it again to never return. Last week I gave up and switched to another Sony 250 that I had kept in storage. It immediately showed an incorrect time and listing. Within a couple of hours, it had the correct time, but did not get any new listings until I left it on following a G* test while set to our local CBS station 10-1. I now have full listings and correct time, even with the overnight reset of clocks. The host channel is still listed as analog 3 which existed when the unit was taken out of service, but ceased a month ago. The VBI host is listed as 10-1 (digital CBS) and the clock is listed as 24-1 which is reputed to be the local digital broadcast signal for CBS, but shows NO picture when tunned digitally.

Okay, for those who have been following my saga (and offering help -- thanks!), here's where things stand this morning.

- My clock picked up DST correctly
- My DHG has been turned off for at least 16 hrs, last tuned to a channel that carries VBI packets. I have no program listings. My Host Channel remains blank.
- Everything else seems fine.

Looks like it's time to call TVGOS to see whether I've hit a locale-specific problem. What I don't understand is that I was receiving listings prior to my "power event," which was *after* 2/17. So my problem would appear to be the inability to establish a digital Host Channel, although I had one before (I hypothesize).

Dave Kristol

Dave,
You say you have no listings, but I'm assuming you also don't have a channel lineup, do you? I think the "get channel lineup" step is what mine seems to be stuck at. This is step 13 in Frank's procedure where you leave it off overnight, and the channel lineup fills in. He then says it will probably be all No Listings. So do you have a channel ineup, but eveything is No Listings, or does your guide screen just say 'no data for this screen'?

BTW, after yesterday's reset, I'm back to where I was, except the front panel time hasn't set yet. I got the ads back last night (oh, joy! :rolleyes:). This time I didn't do the VBI Search channel, and I also intentionally left it tuned to a channel that wasn't my host before turning it off (so it would be forced to search for it).

Mark

I am starting to think that " host channel" is a red herring.

To be more specific... the host channel isn't a red herring, but the host channel field in the 753 menu is.

I agree with this. I think that field is an indicator of where it found data in the past, but does not necessarily indicate where it will look for data in the future. I think the DHG has a very specific method for finding VBI data and it follows that same procedure every day/night regardless of what the host channel field says. I know this isn't everyone's belief, and I know I may be wrong about this, but I have personally seen my DHG show different data in this field, than what is really happening. YMMV.

Mark

Ok.....now I'm really stumped with this "infernal" machine ! In Orlando, with cablecard from Brighthouse. I've had my channel lineup with "no listings" and no host channel since local PBS turned off their analog signal 3 weeks ago - I was on version 8.01.42 the last time I checked.

This morning, after the time change, I was curious to see what happened over night. Ironically, the time updated for DST and my version is now 8.06.44. I just don't understand how this stuff can happen with no host channel. Can someone please explain this to me? Local CBS and Brighthouse haven't been able to resolve "whatever" their issues are - BH won't even respond to my questions anymore.

Our PBS channel in Chesapeake Virginia went away in February and I sucessfully forced the host channel to 0:3-1 (CBS digital channel 3-1). Sometime later the "Host Chan" switched to showing value 0:40-0, however my "Clock Set Chan" stayed 0:3-1. Everything is working fine; listings are populating and clock reset last night for daylight savings time. The structure 0:40-0 indicates that this is a digital channel, however we do not have a channel 40 either as analog or digital. Has anybody run into this?

Has anyone gotten Cable Card Premium Channel listing on the TVCOS? My 250 works great except for no listing for channels like 909 which = 9.1 in Qam turner. I can't even relable 9.1 in the channel editor to tune 909, I just get a message in the listing box [Turned Off] and it's not. I can tune 909 from the remote just fine, up when press TVG to see what's on or to record I get 8 days of [Turned Off].

Gregg

Our PBS channel in Chesapeake Virginia went away in February and I sucessfully forced the host channel to 0:3-1 (CBS digital channel 3-1). Sometime later the "Host Chan" switched to showing value 0:40-0, however my "Clock Set Chan" stayed 0:3-1. Everything is working fine; listings are populating and clock reset last night for daylight savings time. The structure 0:40-0 indicates that this is a digital channel, however we do not have a channel 40 either as analog or digital. Has anybody run into this?

Where can I view the "Clock Set Chan", please?

Our PBS channel in Chesapeake Virginia went away in February and I sucessfully forced the host channel to 0:3-1 (CBS digital channel 3-1). Sometime later the "Host Chan" switched to showing value 0:40-0, however my "Clock Set Chan" stayed 0:3-1. Everything is working fine; listings are populating and clock reset last night for daylight savings time. The structure 0:40-0 indicates that this is a digital channel, however we do not have a channel 40 either as analog or digital. Has anybody run into this?

Assuming your station is WTKR, the actual RF channel is 40. 3-1 is their virtual channel. It's not unusual for the DHG to display the actual RF channel in the host field.

Where can I view the "Clock Set Chan", please?

Use the 753... menu screens. Go to Clocks 2 screen. From the first screen press "down" twice and "right" once on your remote.

Ok.....now I'm really stumped with this "infernal" machine ! I was on version 8.01.42 the last time I checked.


Are you sure you have been on version 8.01.42? That may be the version number that shows on the G* Test screen, but it isn't the upgrade version. 08.01.42/08.06.44 (found in the 753 menu) is the verson every one seems to be running. I believe the only way you could be at version 08.01.42/00.00.00, would be if you your DHG was reset to factory defaults after the PBS station went off, but that hasn't happened or you wouldn't even have a channel list.


This morning, after the time change, I was curious to see what happened over night. Ironically, the time updated for DST and my version is now 8.06.44. I just don't understand how this stuff can happen with no host channel. Can someone please explain this to me? Local CBS and Brighthouse haven't been able to resolve "whatever" their issues are - BH won't even respond to my questions anymore.

The time change probably happened because your DVR has known for months when the time change was going to happen (there is a field in the 753 menu that holds this date). When your DVR got to that time, it automatically adjusted the clock.

Another possibility is that the issue your CBS station is having is on the verge of being fixed, and your DVR actually received some data from them overnight (but I don't want to get your hopes up if that isn't the case ;)).

Mark

Use the 753... menu screens. Go to Clocks 2 screen. From the first screen press "down" twice and "right" once on your remote.

Thanks - Interesting.....I've never been there before....it does say that my "Sanity level" is 3 - I truly think that is more like 10++ :rolleyes: with the TVGOS on this machine.

Are you sure you have been on version 8.01.42? That may be the version number that shows on the G* Test screen, but it isn't the upgrade version. 08.01.42/08.06.44 (found in the 753 menu) is the verson every one seems to be running. I believe the only way you could be at version 08.01.42/00.00.00, would be if you your DHG was reset to factory defaults after the PBS station went off, but that hasn't happened or you wouldn't even have a channel list.

Sorry.....it reads exactly as you state: 08.01.42/08.06.44. Something must have happened after the last time I looked and before my PBS host cut off.


The time change probably happened because your DVR has known for months when the time change was going to happen (there is a field in the 753 menu that holds this date). When your DVR got to that time, it automatically adjusted the clock.

Another possibility is that the issue your CBS station is having is on the verge of being fixed, and your DVR actually received some data from them overnight (but I don't want to get your hopes up if that isn't the case ;)).

Mark

And.....my clock set channel is the PBS channel....so that answers those questions. Nada on that CBS station. Thanks, though !

Dave,
You say you have no listings, but I'm assuming you also don't have a channel lineup, do you? I think the "get channel lineup" step is what mine seems to be stuck at. This is step 13 in Frank's procedure where you leave it off overnight, and the channel lineup fills in. He then says it will probably be all No Listings. So do you have a channel ineup, but eveything is No Listings, or does your guide screen just say 'no data for this screen'?

My Listing screen says "There is no data for this screen."

Dave Kristol

To be more specific... the host channel isn't a red herring, but the host channel field in the 753 menu is.

I agree with this. I think that field is an indicator of where it found data in the past, but does not necessarily indicate where it will look for data in the future. I think the DHG has a very specific method for finding VBI data and it follows that same procedure every day/night regardless of what the host channel field says. I know this isn't everyone's belief, and I know I may be wrong about this, but I have personally seen my DHG show different data in this field, than what is really happening. YMMV.

I think one thing is true about the Host Channel in 753: If it's blank, the DHG hasn't found a Host Channel. That's where I am.

Dave Kristol

753.. menu just stores the some header info from VBI download. It is just a diagnostic page that some service engineer may be interested to see if he is fixing the stuff. But it does not instruct DHG where to download the TVGOS nor confirms what DHG did during downloads. I think it simply reads off some header info and puts it on that page. When VBI data comes in a different format from the old analog version DHG just doesn't see info at the usual "host channel" spot and thus leaving it as blank. That header info (if I may call it) does not go into building the listings anyway.
As experiences of many of us have shown the 753 page is neither accurate nor relavent. If the unit is downloading the listings everyday then it has found the host channel. What is shown on 753 menu otherwise is simply nonsense.
It is obvious that at this stage digital TVGOS may not be standardized across all markets. You are unlucky to experience the VBI issues. But even in old analog days TVGOS was not well maintained by all stations, because it was free service. Its hard to demand what it ought to be if its freebie. So VBI is a big viable in this equation and your Sony is a constant.

My Listing screen says "There is no data for this screen."
Dave Kristol
If memory serves, that means your TVGOS has been reset, and you have to receive initial setup data, etc, including a lineup after it asks you to specify zip code ...

If memory serves, that means your TVGOS has been reset, and you have to receive initial setup data, etc, including a lineup after it asks you to specify zip code ...

Thanks, but I guess you missed the past weeks' worth of my saga. I've been through the reset process a couple of times, but I haven't been able to pick up the channel listings.

Dave Kristol

Yo Dave,

I to live in the NYC area and have not received data since before February 17.

My firmware is 8.06.44

and have both 2-1 and 13-1 as data "DIGITAL" source.

Yesterday I finally have good clock yet still not TV Guide!



I don't think there is much we can do other then wait for them to sort the code issue out.



CJ

Thanks, but I guess you missed the past weeks' worth of my saga. I've been through the reset process a couple of times, but I haven't been able to pick up the channel listings.

Dave Kristol
Yes, I've seen your saga, but - along with the other recent stories in this thread - I haven't followed them in detail, because I can't keep their details straight....I was just commenting on what that particular screen implied...I've only gotten it when - in trying to understand what the different menu codes did - I used the code to reset the slicer, not realizing it reset the whole TV Guide...and showing me that screen!

Our PBS channel in Chesapeake Virginia went away in February and I sucessfully forced the host channel to 0:3-1 (CBS digital channel 3-1). Sometime later the "Host Chan" switched to showing value 0:40-0, however my "Clock Set Chan" stayed 0:3-1. Everything is working fine; listings are populating and clock reset last night for daylight savings time. The structure 0:40-0 indicates that this is a digital channel, however we do not have a channel 40 either as analog or digital. Has anybody run into this?

Check www.antennaweb.org for your area. You'll probably find that 40 is the frequency assignment for your displayed channel of 3-1. My CBS station is displayed as 13.1, however their frequency is 4. My Sony shows 0:4-0 as the host channel. If everything is working fine, then it's nothing to be concerned about. On other tuners I have, if I punch in "4" for the channel, 13.1 comes up. That's because it's tuning to the frequency 4 (in my case). By the way, my "Clock Set Channel" shows 0:4-1, which is still a 4 frequency.

753.. menu just stores the some header info from VBI download. It is just a diagnostic page that some service engineer may be interested to see if he is fixing the stuff. But it does not instruct DHG where to download the TVGOS nor confirms what DHG did during downloads. I think it simply reads off some header info and puts it on that page. When VBI data comes in a different format from the old analog version DHG just doesn't see info at the usual "host channel" spot and thus leaving it as blank. That header info (if I may call it) does not go into building the listings anyway.
As experiences of many of us have shown the 753 page is neither accurate nor relavent. If the unit is downloading the listings everyday then it has found the host channel. What is shown on 753 menu otherwise is simply nonsense.
It is obvious that at this stage digital TVGOS may not be standardized across all markets. You are unlucky to experience the VBI issues. But even in old analog days TVGOS was not well maintained by all stations, because it was free service. Its hard to demand what it ought to be if its freebie. So VBI is a big viable in this equation and your Sony is a constant.

You refer to the 753... page as if it was a single screen. With 11 sections and perhaps ~60 pages, there's information there that can be helpful to an end-user, not solely to a service engineer. When TVGOS is working perfectly there isn't much reason to explore the 753... pages, but when things aren't working the pages can, indeed, tell you what was done (or not) during the downloads. That knowledge is certainly relevant in trying to figure out where the problem may be occuring. Maybe I'm just one of those people that likes to know what's going on inside the "black box". :D

FWIW, my clock changed to EDT overnight and I continue to have full listings for both Toronto and Buffalo markets including OTA & cable. The system does work if all the pieces are in place.

Knock on wood, because the next time there's a channel lineup update from TVGOS, you might lose all your "Air"'s like I did. !! (Maybe you had the box on during the last update and thus you were spared the agony).

On 2 Sony's starting TVGOS setup from scratch after a TVGOS reset, using either Toronto or Kitchener postal code (and thus either CFTO-9 or CKCO-13 as host), and select "yes Cable - yes Antenna" there are NO Air versions of channels available...only Cable - with none of them selectable Air/Cable - all are stuck on Cable only. If you now choose "no Cable - yes Antenna" during setup, nothing will ever show up - just the "There is no data for this screen" message. Just tried this again yesterday on Sony # 2 - same result.

My solution on our main unit was to go with Buffalo host, then all Toronto-Kitchener market channels suddenly became Air/Cable selectable again.

P.s. - Loading Buffalo host first, then Toronto, now causes all Buffalo market channels to go to Cable only as well. Weird.

Knock on wood, because the next time there's a channel lineup update from TVGOS, you might lose all your "Air"'s like I did. !! (Maybe you had the box on during the last update and thus you were spared the agony).

Maybe, although in all honesty all I record is the same 30 minute show Monday/Friday and watch them maybe once every 3 weeks, so it's sure not on very often. I can tell you from checking the day 8 listings it appears it takes multiple download sessions during the day to fully populate both market's channels.

At nearly 5 years old, I don't expect this 'system' to last forever, or even that much longer really. Transmitting OTA guide data is pretty outdated when much of the population has cable or satellite with their own listing systems.

FYI
2-500's OTA only
Left one on (2-1) and turned the other off.

One left on now uses host as 0-11 and has full listings, so even though it showed no host station before, and was left on 2-1 it now shows 0-11.
Clock set channel shows 2-1.

One turned off now shows 0-2 as host and has full listings, clock set channel also shows 2-1 where it showed nothing before.

And the beat goes on...

Yes, use the 753... From the 1st page go UP 3 times, then RIGHT 2 times. That's the 1st page of the schedule and you can keep going right to page through the whole thing.

Finding one's way through all the 753... screens is worse than going through a maze blindfolded. :D
So I've been looking at the 753... screens on the Sony (as well as the LG3410a), and there's relatively little I can understand.

But the screen that you mentioned above certainly does give download schedules, in my case for analog downloads, since it is still getting data from analog PBS. But I notice that the download schedule screen has a total of FIVE groups of schedules, indexed by different station IDs...I don't know if the same is true for digital.

My unit is set up only for OTA, so there's no complications, but any idea how to identify station IDs?

I assume that this screen is simply something that is part of a download, not a record of anything that has actually HAPPENED...in fact I haven't identified where the RECORD of actual downloads is. (Although I may have been able to do this for the 3410a, with has a simpler set of screens, and a set of data on one of the vbi info screens that apparently gives time info for the last download, although I don't really understand it!)

So I've been looking at the 753... screens on the Sony (as well as the LG3410a), and there's relatively little I can understand.

But the screen that you mentioned above certainly does give download schedules, in my case for analog downloads, since it is still getting data from analog PBS. But I notice that the download schedule screen has a total of FIVE groups of schedules, indexed by different station IDs...I don't know if the same is true for digital.

My unit is set up only for OTA, so there's no complications, but any idea how to identify station IDs?

I assume that this screen is simply something that is part of a download, not a record of anything that has actually HAPPENED...in fact I haven't identified where the RECORD of actual downloads is. (Although I may have been able to do this for the 3410a, with has a simpler set of screens, and a set of data on one of the vbi info screens that apparently gives time info for the last download, although I don't really understand it!)

The Section VBI Data-VBIDLSched, Section VBI Data-VBIDLSched 2, and Section VBI Data-VBIDLSched 3 screens show the download schedules for your recorder's time zone. The Section VBI Data-VBIDL, Section VBI Data-VBIDL 2, and Section VBI Data-VBIDL 3 screens follow these screens and show the actual times that downloads started and completed successfully.

FYI
2-500's OTA only
Left one on (2-1) and turned the other off.

One left on now uses host as 0-11 and has full listings, so even though it showed no host station before, and was left on 2-1 it now shows 0-11.
Clock set channel shows 2-1.

One turned off now shows 0-2 as host and has full listings, clock set channel also shows 2-1 where it showed nothing before.

And the beat goes on...

FWIW...I started getting listings again after the time change. Host is still 0-11. I don't know for sure if the two are related...but a big coincidence.

(Cable only via CSPAN)

My next time transition has updated to November. It had me scared for a while. Also, I noticed for the last month my listing/ad updates only happen during the week. I guess that since they come via a government source the updates take the weekend off. Clock updates are still showing on weekends from the same channel. Ain't life great?

The Section VBI Data-VBIDLSched, Section VBI Data-VBIDLSched 2, and Section VBI Data-VBIDLSched 3 screens show the download schedules for your recorder's time zone. The Section VBI Data-VBIDL, Section VBI Data-VBIDL 2, and Section VBI Data-VBIDL 3 screens follow these screens and show the actual times that downloads started and completed successfully.

I've still got no channel listings, no program listings. Your remarks prompted me to look at my status screens. I'm not sure whether the following is significant or not.


Under VBIDLSched, I see schedule info for five different StID's
I have no VBIDL information (nothing has been downloaded)
Under VBIStats I see counts for LineupPkt, LineupSelPkt, StationPkt, and DescPkts increments as I watch
Under ATSC Slicer, the TVG field increments


I get the sense that if I knew the mapping from StID to actual channel, I should be able to pick up the channel listings and program listings. I interpret the above to mean I'm getting the data but the DHG doesn't recognize that it can use it.

Dave Kristol

I've still got no channel listings, no program listings. Your remarks prompted me to look at my status screens. I'm not sure whether the following is significant or not.


Under VBIDLSched, I see schedule info for five different StID's
I have no VBIDL information (nothing has been downloaded)
Under VBIStats I see counts for LineupPkt, LineupSelPkt, StationPkt, and DescPkts increments as I watch
Under ATSC Slicer, the TVG field increments


I get the sense that if I knew the mapping from StID to actual channel, I should be able to pick up the channel listings and program listings. I interpret the above to mean I'm getting the data but the DHG doesn't recognize that it can use it.

Dave Kristol

What you have bulleted above is normal for your current state. Your recorder can see the TVGOS data on your VBI channel, but will not be able to use any of it until it downloads a channel lineup. I believe that it needs a host channel in order to get the channel lineup and you don't currently have a host channel.

On your Clocks 1 screen, what are your values for Time Zone Element, Time Zone Version, and Offset (sec) from UTC? On your VBI Stats screen do you have counts for ZipcodePkts, TimezonePkts, and HostSchedule? Also, I don't remember if anyone asked you, but did you rescan your channels after you performed the reset to factory defaults?

I interpret the above to mean I'm getting the data but the DHG doesn't recognize that it can use it.


Your statement above is exactly what it seems like is happening to me. The DHG is getting legitimate data, but can't figure it out, so it ignores it. Eventually, after receiving the same data multiple times, it uses it. Which is why it takes so long to get running again after a reset. So much data is being ignored by the DHG. Unfortunately if this is what is happening, I don't believe there is anything the end user can do about it, other than have lots of patience. I honestly believe that if I reset my DVR, and went on vacation for 2 weeks everything would be working perfectly when I got back. Since this is my peak recording season, I'm not patient enough to just let these things work themselves out.

Mark

"No Listings" for Tuesday March 17th

It had been perfect for almost 2 months now. It is possible that PBS was off the air last night, so that may be the problem here.

My Listing screen says "There is no data for this screen."

Dave Kristol

Have you tried using a different zip code? The only channel I can recieve with TVGOS is the Boston PBS station. If I use my own zip code in RI I get nothing. If I use a Boston zip code it works fine but it doesn't include my channels

What you have bulleted above is normal for your current state. Your recorder can see the TVGOS data on your VBI channel, but will not be able to use any of it until it downloads a channel lineup. I believe that it needs a host channel in order to get the channel lineup and you don't currently have a host channel.

On your Clocks 1 screen, what are your values for Time Zone Element, Time Zone Version, and Offset (sec) from UTC? On your VBI Stats screen do you have counts for ZipcodePkts, TimezonePkts, and HostSchedule? Also, I don't remember if anyone asked you, but did you rescan your channels after you performed the reset to factory defaults?

Clock 1: all seem correct:

time zone element: 16
time zone version: 52
offset from UTC: -18000


I have counts for each of ZipcodePkts, TimezonePkts, and HostSchedule.

I've gone through so many steps, I'm not sure when the last time was that I did a channel scan. I'll do another and see what happens.

Dave Kristol

"No Listings" for Tuesday March 17th

Neither my Sony nor my LG3410a got today's listings...I'm straight OTA, and both units get their data from PBS analog...

Furthermore, my Sony has host channel blank - haven't seen that in a while...

Anybody else experience similar problems overnight?

No listings here last Saturday and very few today. This is over PBS analog Comcast. I think TVGOS just takes a day off here and there to mess around with their problems. Listings usually return in a day or two. I don't get worried until listings disappear for three days. (Well, I do, but I'm not going to let this thing make me nuts.)

Neither my Sony nor my LG3410a got today's listings...I'm straight OTA, and both units get their data from PBS analog...

Furthermore, my Sony has host channel blank - haven't seen that in a while...

Anybody else experience similar problems overnight?

No listings for next Tuesday on digital or analog here in Pleasanton.

Neither my Sony nor my LG3410a got today's listings...I'm straight OTA, and both units get their data from PBS analog...

Furthermore, my Sony has host channel blank - haven't seen that in a while...

Anybody else experience similar problems overnight?

Also no listings here last night :(, but my host still says 5.1 OTA :)

Jim

Clock 1: all seem correct:

time zone element: 16
time zone version: 52
offset from UTC: -18000


I have counts for each of ZipcodePkts, TimezonePkts, and HostSchedule.

I've gone through so many steps, I'm not sure when the last time was that I did a channel scan. I'll do another and see what happens.

Dave Kristol

FWIW, my values on one recorder are:


time zone element: 16
time zone version: 48
offset from UTC: -18000


I'm running a test on the other recorder so there are no values presently, but if memory serves they were the same as the 1st. We are both on EDT so I would have expected yours to be the same as mine. Have you run a 963214785 command and shut the recorder off overnight?

No listing here in Las Vegas for the last 48 hours also (Monday, Tuesday) OTA PBS analog (default) or CBS digital. Thought it was something local, but now with this many of us who have had good working updates the last few weeks; to drop updates the last two days must be something more global with TVGOS.

Regards
MK