Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread [Text View] - Page 6

jtbell

11-22-05, 10:45 PM

Oh sheesh... I go out this afternoon to buy a 250 at BB, and then after I get it set up I find out about the apparant discontinuation.

I'm going to be looking very carefully at developments over the next couple weeks, then decide whether to return it to Crutchfield within the 30-day window I have.

Same here. At least BB also has a 30-day return window.

So far I've just hooked it up to the TV, done the initial channel scan and guide setup, and looked at some of the channels for a few minutes before turning it off so it can download the guide. This was about 4:30pm and the time showed up on the display sometime before 7:00pm. I'm forcing myself to keep my hands off the remote until tomorrow morning. :p

If Sony has discontinued it, will Sony/BB have to honor any extended warranty repairs? Or will it be replaced with a "new and improved" model?

I got BB's extended warranty. The terms in the brochure state, "...may be repaired or replaced with a comparable product, or we will issue a voucher for the original purchase price at our discretion." So if service is no longer available, we'll get something else, or be able to get something else with the money. I'd expect Sony to offer service for discontinued products for a certain period of time, maybe not as long as four years, though.

jlentz

11-22-05, 10:54 PM

I got BB's extended warranty. The terms in the brochure state, "...may be repaired or replaced with a comparable product, or we will issue a voucher for the original purchase price at our discretion." So if service is no longer available, we'll get something else, or be able to get something else with the money. I'd expect Sony to offer service for discontinued products for a certain period of time, maybe not as long as four years, though.

That's good to know. Thanks.

philspice1

11-22-05, 11:01 PM

optivity

11-22-05, 11:15 PM

The RDR-HX715 DVD Recorder is more likely replacing the RDR-HX900 DVD Recorder. If Sony is indeed discontinuing the DHG-HDD250/500, I would think it would be from lack of sales.

AlanI can't imagine Sony has "replaced" the DHG-HDD250/500 with the RDR-HX715. That unit was announced at this year's (2005) CES, so it's not any "newer" than the DHG-HDD units. I'm not sure how long it's been available. There may be more going on here than any of us suspect....just wish we knew what it is.Well, I'm not really sure. But it is interesting the RDR-HX715 records HD, has an internal tuner, EPG, no CableCARD slot and the BIG "copy protection" caveat. By not fully supporting TVGOS and passing "copy never" conditional access flags, CATV providers have made sure that DCR devices (e.g. DHG-HDD250/500) are not ready for "prime time." I suspect Sony recognizes they cannot build a digital cable ready DVR that works the way their customers anticipate so they have dropped them from their product line.

CATV providers have "brainwashed" their subscribers into believing the only viable DVR is the STB they lease, no matter how crappy the internal components are.

optivity

11-22-05, 11:28 PM

I wonder if any new Sony DVR will use TV Guide. LG has a new DVR/DVD recorder that uses a program guide from Microsoft. It's not a free guide, though. It's less than Tivo at $10/month (for now). LG has used TV Guide in the past in DVRs and TVs.

New LG unit:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7384289&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat13900050019&id=1122654250432

www.microsoftprogramguide.comDifferent DVR same problems... from the LRM-519 user's guide:

"Record-protected program content

The provider of a show can restrict the show or some of the program content from recording. When the Recorder encounters this restriction, it will not record the protected content.

• If an entire show is restricted from recording, the Recorder will not record the show.
• If some program content is restricted, the Recorder will only record the show until it reaches the first restricted segment.

Shows can also be copy-protected, but recordable. This means you can record the show but you are restricted when making copies of the recording. For information about copy-protected shows, see Copying Copy-protected Shows.

Copying Copy-protected Shows

The provider of a show can restrict content from being copied. When the Recorder encounters a copy restriction within a recording of a show, the Recorder will not allow the protected content to be copied to DVDs, computers, or USB devices.
When you select recordings to copy to a DVD, recordings that cannot be copied are not available.

Copy of Commercial/Retail Copyrighted DVDs

The Recorder cannot copy or record commercial or retail copyrighted DVDs (such as, motion picture DVDs or retail DVDs of TV shows) to the Recorder disk drive, a USB device, or a computer."

bierboy

11-22-05, 11:35 PM

...But it is interesting the RDR-HX715 records HD...Check those specs and features again and read carefully. I don't see anywhere where it says it records HD. The only mention of high definition is this from Sony's Web site..."720p/1080i Upscaling of HDTV Level Resolution Video Output through the HDMI™ Interface."

Daniel Tonks

11-23-05, 02:54 AM

I'd guess the Japanese models the poster is talking about are probably the RDZ-D90, RDZ-D70 and RDZ-D50. Going by the 90 model at least, it's a combo DVD-R & OTA HDTV tuner with a 400gb HD.

Images:
http://www.ecat.sony.co.jp/visual/dvdrec/image_pop.cfm?PD=22716&KM=RDZ-D90&PCT=20701
http://www.ecat.sony.co.jp/visual/dvdrec/image_pop.cfm?PD=22716&KM=RDZ-D90&PCT=21131

Product page (in Japanese):
http://www.ecat.sony.co.jp/visual/dvdrec/products/index.cfm?PD=22716&KM=RDZ-D90

However, a HD DVR for Japan is little related to a HD DVR for the US.

hednic

11-23-05, 03:46 AM

Well, in the UK it looks that Sony is selling a new model above the RDR-HXD710, the
RDR-HXD910. A model with a 250 GB HDD/DVD Recorder with integrated Freeview Tuner, HDMI Output and 8-Day EPG. Chances this won't show up in the States as
its predecessor the RDR-HXD1000 never made it here!

hednic

11-23-05, 03:55 AM

Very interesting - Sony has just released the RDRHX1010 in Australia - It states that "it has a 400GB Hard Disk Drive (693 hours of recording) Double Layer Recording and Playback, Chasing Playback and High Bit Rate Recording Mode (HQ+) the HX1010 sets itself apart from the rest of the competition! Now with HDMI output connection!"
This must be on par with the one being sold in Japan.

optivity

11-23-05, 09:56 AM

Check those specs and features again and read carefully. I don't see anywhere where it says it records HD. The only mention of high definition is this from Sony's Web site..."720p/1080i Upscaling of HDTV Level Resolution Video Output through the HDMI™ Interface."The RDR-HX715 supports analog YPbPr component input signals, 16:9 format and has HQ+ HDD recording which handles data transfer rates of approximately 15 Mbps. I'm not sure how close these recorded programs come to HD quality.

bierboy

11-23-05, 10:30 AM

You know, I've had this unit for about a week now and am very happy with it. It's certainly no TiVo (especially using the TVGOS program guide), but it does the job it's designed to do and does it very well. The TVGOS does take some getting used to and setting up your channel listing is a bit tedious, but, as long as TVGOS doesn't mess with you (and that could be a BIG if in light of what happend a week or two ago), then the unit is fine. It'll be interesting to see what shakes out in the next few weeks.

spiff72

11-23-05, 10:43 AM

If I just hooked up a new unit yesterday, will I not be affected by the problems of a week or two ago? Was this all just caused by bad guide data, and since mine wasn't operational at that time, there are no changes needed? They didn't update the internal software as a result of the problems, did they? They just corrected the guide data streams?

Thanks

bierboy

11-23-05, 11:04 AM

spiff - I hooked up my unit last Thursday and have seen no ill effects of the bad data problems from the week before. My guide has filled out quite nicely.

mstanl

11-23-05, 12:57 PM

Hmmm...I might have answered my own question with a little Googling...

Looks like you can't combine signals that contain the same channels, or you will trash them. I wish I could shift some of that gain to the line that needs it the most!

Edit: However, is there a signal strength meter in the unit.

I think you can go to the system dianose for the hard drives and it has a signal strength meter. I think that is what you are looking for.

Mike

jeffcmcc

11-23-05, 01:09 PM

"[b]Pictures with copy protection cannot be recorded on this recorder.

Here's the part about this copy protection stuff that I don't get. I've had the Motorola 6412 for about a year. It has never failed to record a program (except in a few cases of pilot error). In the last week since I've had it, the Sony unit (I'm using a motorola cablecard) has failed to record 5 movies -- all with the note in recording history "recording not permitted by service provider." Others have experienced this problem. But I can record these movies on the 6412. Why and how are these units treated differently?

The 6412 is connected via component and Sony via HDMI. Could this be the problem. I don't think so but I haven't switched cables to find out for sure. Then I thought, maybe its something done by a particular content provider. No, failed recordings have occurred on HBOHD, STZHD, and SHOHD; and with movies from several studios (Warner, MGM/UA, Touchstone, etc.)

Then I started comparing the diagnostic menus on both units. The 6412 for channels that can't be recorded (music channels for example) shows "CCI: 0x00" (CCI means copyright control information). All channels that can be recorded show "CCI: 0x02". The Sony unit (preferences>system>cablecard>conditional access) shows:

Host Validation: Valid 00
Copy Protection Key: Disabled
CCI: 0x00

Thus, it seems to me that the sporadic recording failures due to copyright issues are the result of the codes sent by Comcast in the process of provisioning the cablecard? I have so far gotten nowhere with Comcast. If this is the case, then why the manual excerpts re other recorders noted in recent posts to the effect -- pictures with copy protection cannot be recorded on this recorder. Do they really mean can't be recorded if service provider has set a flag? Or do they mean something else -- can't record period, can't record because of a chip in the unit, etc? In other words -- where is the source of this problem -- manufacturer, cablecard manufacturer, cable provider? Does anybody know?

I, for one, need to know the answer because as we head down the road, to have this unit at the whim and mercy (re recording) of someone someplace, will render it virtually worthless. I still have time to take it back. Any ideas? Thanks.

Jeff

optivity

11-23-05, 02:20 PM

Here's the part about this copy protection stuff that I don't get. I've had the Motorola 6412 for about a year. It has never failed to record a program (except in a few cases of pilot error). In the last week since I've had it, the Sony unit (I'm using a motorola cablecard) has failed to record 5 movies -- all with the note in recording history "recording not permitted by service provider." Others have experienced this problem. But I can record these movies on the 6412. Why and how are these units treated differently?

The 6412 is connected via component and Sony via HDMI. Could this be the problem. I don't think so but I haven't switched cables to find out for sure. Then I thought, maybe its something done by a particular content provider. No, failed recordings have occurred on HBOHD, STZHD, and SHOHD; and with movies from several studios (Warner, MGM/UA, Touchstone, etc.)

Then I started comparing the diagnostic menus on both units. The 6412 for channels that can't be recorded (music channels for example) shows "CCI: 0x00" (CCI means copyright control information). All channels that can be recorded show "CCI: 0x02". The Sony unit (preferences>system>cablecard>conditional access) shows:

Host Validation: Valid 00
Copy Protection Key: Disabled
CCI: 0x00

Thus, it seems to me that the sporadic recording failures due to copyright issues are the result of the codes sent by Comcast in the process of provisioning the cablecard? I have so far gotten nowhere with Comcast. If this is the case, then why the manual excerpts re other recorders noted in recent posts to the effect -- pictures with copy protection cannot be recorded on this recorder. Do they really mean can't be recorded if service provider has set a flag? Or do they mean something else -- can't record period, can't record because of a chip in the unit, etc? In other words -- where is the source of this problem -- manufacturer, cablecard manufacturer, cable provider? Does anybody know?

I, for one, need to know the answer because as we head down the road, to have this unit at the whim and mercy (re recording) of someone someplace, will render it virtually worthless. I still have time to take it back. Any ideas? Thanks.

JeffCable TV providers have implemented a system of conditional access authorization to "protect" digital content. These specifications have been agreed to by the cable providers (e.g. Time Warner & Comcast) the POD manufacturers (e.g. Scientific Atlanta & Motorola) and Digital Cable Ready equipment makers (e.g. Panasonic & Sony) which is defined in the OCAP 1.0 spec by "CableLabs" (http://www.opencable.com/ocap/ocap.html).

Content authorization is determined by the CCI (copy control information) passed with the digital content and is defined as:

0x00 = copy freely
0x01 = copy no more (allows one copy that cannot be replicated)
0x02 = copy once
0x03 = copy never

Conditional access is implemented differently in the cable provider's STB (e.g. SA8300HD-DVR) than their CableCARD (e.g. SA PowerKEY) because they "want" you to rent their DVRs, which no one would if they didn't behave properly.

jeffcmcc

11-23-05, 02:43 PM

Content authorization is determined by the CCI (copy control information) passed with the digital content and is defined as:

0x00 = copy freely
0x01 = copy no more (allows one copy that cannot be replicated)
0x02 = copy once
0x03 = copy never

Conditional access is implemented differently in the cable provider's STB (e.g. SA8300HD-DVR) than their CableCARD (e.g. SA PowerKEY) because they "want" you to rent their DVRs, which no one would if they didn't behave properly.

Hi Optivity and thanks,

So, does all that mean that in my case the issue is with Comcast? That Comcast's implementation of conditional access prevents me from recording certain programs? And, if that is the case why is my CCI: 0x00 and I still can't record? In theory, 0x00 should mean that I can record anything.

You say that "conditional access is implemented differently" vis-a-vis STB vs. cablecard. If that means that the cablecard is somehow crippled (other than for allowable exceptions such as PPV, VOD, etc), then I am not sure that is what the FCC had in mind when they mandated the things (cablecards) in the first place. I don't understand all the techno stuff but if it is a case (and I don't know that it is) of a cable provider circumventing FCC regs. in favor of their STB's, I do know how to get to the bottom of that. I appreciate your help.

Jeff

optivity

11-23-05, 03:03 PM

I hear you... I've been dealing with this issue since I had a CableCARD installed in my PDP last June. In my case my cable provider disables the optical digital interface of my TV for all... but my HD local channels, which prevents digital sound output to my 6.1 channel receiver.

There are no rules to prevent cable providers from doing this and they are becoming increasingly punitive with their conditional access policies under the guise of digital piracy.

Early CableCARD adopters like myself are hoping once the OCAP 2.0 spec is established and two-way CableCARDs become available, some of these policies will be changed.

I can't explain why you cannot record with CCI value 0x00 which indicates unprotected content. My experience has been that copy protection occurs only with the combination of CCI value 0x02 and an ECM (entitlement control message).

I believe the firmware/diagnostic information varies by manufacturer which makes it difficult to compare "apples to apples" under this circumstance.

jtbell

11-23-05, 03:12 PM

The new 250 that I set up yesterday now has its initial set of TV Guide data. I use only OTA signals, so it didn't take long to rearrange the channel listing to correspond to what I have on my Panasonic SD DVR/DVD which uses the same system.

I've verified that I can output stuff to the SD DVR via S-video for archiving to DVD. I set FORMAT to either SD OUT if I want to record the closed captions, or 480i if I don't; and I set SCREEN MODE to SIDE CROP if the material is SD upconverted to HD at the station, or to SQUEEZE if it's real HD. When playing back squeezed material, I set my TV (a Panasonic LCD) to FULL or JUST mode to expand it back out again. I think the Sony does a better job with the conversions than my US Digital STB does, especially with the squeezed HD material.

It took me a few minutes to realize that the FORMAT and SCREEN MODE settings do work even though they don't show their effects while you're cycling throgh the options by pressing the buttons on the remote. You have to make your selection and then wait a few seconds before anything happens.

The HDMI output produces a brighter picture than my Samsung SIR-T451 does (that's what I had hooked up to the HDMI input on my TV before), which is good because I had to crank up the brightness on the TV almost to maximum to get a decent picture from the Samsung. But how can this be? I thought the digital output via HDMI was basically just a copy of the original data stream from the antenna signal, at least if you set the output to be the same format as the input.

I'm only now starting to check out the recording capabilities. I set up one of today's soaps for a one-time scheduled recording and it seems to be going OK.

Overall, I think I'm going to like this unit. The biggest downside for me will be that I can't edit out commercials and archive directly to DVD like I can with my SD DVR/DVD. I have to take the extra step of dubbing to the other box first. No wait... I can record to both simultaneously, but I think the Sony has to be turned on so the output is active. And of course I'd have to schedule the recording on both boxes.

Mitch G

11-23-05, 03:17 PM

jeffcmcc

11-23-05, 03:40 PM

If I understand correctly, problems that have occurred when recording something on the DVR were with content that came "via" the CableCard.
Could it be that the DVR defaults to wide-open (i.e. copy freely), but the CableCard superceeds that setting and thus limits what can be recorded?
In other words, you likely won't have any problems recording OTA HD stuff since that only flows through the DVR which is set up for copying freely.
However, stuff that comes through the CableCard (e.g. HD TNT or some such station) is subject to copy protection if the content is tagged accordingly.

Just a thought,

Mitch

Hi Mitch,

You're right -- the recording problems I've had have occurred "via" the CableCard. I haven't and wouldn't expect to have any problems "via" QAM or OTA. But, I think that when using a CableCard, the DVR and the CableCard are one and the same, meaning that the card controls the behavior of all encrypted cable channels. The information I posted above re copyright control:

Host Validation: Valid 00
Copy Protection Key: Disabled
CCI: 0x00

are actually in the CableCard diagnostics on a screen that says -- this information provided by your cable provider (or something like that). So my surmise is that there is nothing inherently wrong with the DVR itself, but rather with the way its been provisioned by Comcast . But I don't know and so far nobody at Comcast does either. I've got two weeks to find out because this box goes back to BB -- I'm not going to live with hit & miss "recording of this program not allowed, etc, etc."

It might help to find someone on this forum who has had no problems with conditional access and see how their CableCard is provisioned. Anyone?

Jeff

bierboy

11-23-05, 03:47 PM

...The HDMI output produces a brighter picture than my Samsung SIR-T451 does (that's what I had hooked up to the HDMI input on my TV before), which is good because I had to crank up the brightness on the TV almost to maximum to get a decent picture from the Samsung. But how can this be? I thought the digital output via HDMI was basically just a copy of the original data stream from the antenna signal, at least if you set the output to be the same format as the input.
...jtbell - I noticed the very same thing. I previously calibrated my Hitachi 51UWX20B, and, using my old Sammy SIR-T151, it was much darker viewing HD content via components than it is now via HDMI (through the HDMI-component adaptor). I just tweaked my brightness setting a bit to reach a happy medium.

dozens

11-23-05, 03:50 PM

It seems some people hear are quick to point tje finger at the MSOs but maybe the problem is with the DHG software. Does anyone know of a CE device that worked perfectly the first time it was released ? Has there been any firmware updates for the DHG since is was releases 6-8 months ago ?

Regarding the CC and CCI, maybe the DHG is not properly reading the CCI info from the mpeg stream and using info from the previous channel, that might explain why it works sometimes and not others. I also seriously doubt Comcast is changing the CCI flag for just CC users. The CCI information is set by the source and just passed down from the MSO.

BTW - I just got my 250 yesterday and having my Comcast CC installed on friday. Looking forward to testing the device out. If it doesn't work better then the 6412 then it is going back to BB. I need to record flawlessly as the 6412 and if it does that then I can avoid all the other little issues with the 6412 (IR delay, smaller HD, etc).

Hopefully as the price comes down people start opening these units up and figuring out how to add large drives and maybe adding additional software.

optivity

11-23-05, 04:01 PM

If I understand correctly, problems that have occurred when recording something on the DVR were with content that came "via" the CableCard.
Could it be that the DVR defaults to wide-open (i.e. copy freely), but the CableCard superceeds that setting and thus limits what can be recorded?
In other words, you likely won't have any problems recording OTA HD stuff since that only flows through the DVR which is set up for copying freely.
However, stuff that comes through the CableCard (e.g. HD TNT or some such station) is subject to copy protection if the content is tagged accordingly.

Just a thought,

MitchUnfortunately, content providers will restrict this too with a "Broadcast Flag" (http://news.com.com/Politicians+want+to+raise+broadcast+flag/2100-1028_3-5886722.html?tag=nefd.top)It seems some people hear are quick to point tje finger at the MSOs but maybe the problem is with the DHG software... I also seriously doubt Comcast is changing the CCI flag for just CC users. The CCI information is set by the source and just passed down from the MSO.Cable providers are just as quick to blame the equipment manufacturers. I've read many posts from participants who own Sony, LG, Sharp, Panasonic, Samsung, etc., TVs & DVRs that don't work as intended when using a CableCARD. The concept that the MSO is "blameless" makes no sense.

jeffcmcc

11-23-05, 05:15 PM

I also seriously doubt Comcast is changing the CCI flag for just CC users. The CCI information is set by the source and just passed down from the MSO.

Maybe. But if so why has the 6412 recorded everything for over a year and in one week the HDD250 has missed 5 recordings all on account of "recording not permitted by service provider." I record the same things (movies) on the same channels (premium HD channels). Logic suggests that if it is just a pass-through both boxes would react the same. I haven't suggested that Comcast is doing anything intentional I just suspect, but don't know, that it is something in the provisioning of the cable card. I haven't been able to get far enough up the food chain at Comcast to find out.

optivity

11-23-05, 05:32 PM

I haven't suggested that Comcast is doing anything intentional I just suspect, but don't know, that it is something in the provisioning of the cable card.Maybe you won't but I will:

Conditional Access policies for DCR devices equipped with a CableCARD are determined by your cable provider and implemented at the head-end.

It is not the equipment manufacturer's fault these devices do not operate as consumers anticipate, the boxes perform only as instructed.

Anyone who tells you differently is "blowing smoke" and misleads the cable TV subscriber regarding this issue.

pri9908

11-23-05, 07:24 PM

bierboy

11-23-05, 07:35 PM

Bypass audio menus and talk to a real person when dealing with your Sony HDD250/500. Simply call 800-222-7669. "When prompted by the automated voice system to answer ANY questions, just say ""Agent""". You will then be directed to an actual human CSR.

This shortcut and others are found at http://www.paulenglish.com/ivr/. This info was disclosed on ABC's World News Tonight.Talking to a "live" agent does absolutely no good on the issues we have been discussing above in this thread about the apparent discontinuance of the DHG-HDD250/500 units. They claim they know nothing; they can't/won't explain why it's not on their Web site anymore, and will not discuss if an updated unit is forthcoming. They're morons.

ATCtech

11-23-05, 07:53 PM

I think there are a couple of people here from the Toronto area with 250/500 units. Would one of you be so kind to tell me what channel (off-air) you're getting TVGOS data from form the appropriate diagnostic screen? I see CFTO is sending VBI data, plus PBS & Fox out of Buffalo. I stll can't get the clock to even set properly since my power failure last week and there's zero guide data. The TV Guide screen has time in the upper left corner (which since I intentionally did a reset right at midnight local is actually the right time) and the diaganostic screen does indicated proper time (in GMT), but the date still shows 01/01/2004. The unit worked properly for about a week but hasn't had TVGOS data or proper time since last Thursday after the power bump here. ARGH!!!

Thanks!!!

Bob

pri9908

11-23-05, 07:59 PM

Talking to a "live" agent does absolutely no good on the issues we have been discussing above in this thread about the apparent discontinuance of the DHG-HDD250/500 units. They claim they know nothing; they can't/won't explain why it's not on their Web site anymore, and will not discuss if an updated unit is forthcoming. They're morons.

True. It is a sickening reality. And look at what we paid for the d*** things

dozens

11-23-05, 08:06 PM

Maybe you won't but I will:

Conditional Access policies for DCR devices equipped with a CableCARD are determined by your cable provider and implemented at the head-end.

It is not the equipment manufacturer's fault these devices do not operate as consumers anticipate, the boxes perform only as instructed.

Anyone who tells you differently is "blowing smoke" and misleads the cable TV subscriber regarding this issue.

The policies are set by the MSO by CCI flags are set by the content provider. A CC is no different the a STB in terms of policies, both need a "hit" from the HE in order to received premium channels.

fenwayfan

11-23-05, 08:31 PM

ATCtech

11-23-05, 08:33 PM

Thanks Eric, I'm way past that. I've already done a complete factory reset of the unit and the TVGOS in the last 5 days and still nothing.

Bob

optivity

11-23-05, 10:20 PM

The policies are set by the MSO by CCI flags are set by the content provider. A CC is no different the a STB in terms of policies, both need a "hit" from the HE in order to received premium channels.Either you don't know what you're talking about... or you’re just spinning more cable provider bullshit around the AVS Forum. :p

optivity

11-23-05, 10:23 PM

Talking to a "live" agent does absolutely no good on the issues we have been discussing above in this thread about the apparent discontinuance of the DHG-HDD250/500 units. They claim they know nothing; they can't/won't explain why it's not on their Web site anymore, and will not discuss if an updated unit is forthcoming. They're morons.If Sony "out sources" their telephone call center to "India" maybe you'll get better technical support. :D

pwfletcher

11-23-05, 10:39 PM

Has anyone figured out how to access the service menu on the unit yet???

jtbell

11-23-05, 11:39 PM

I've verified that I can output stuff to the SD DVR via S-video for archiving to DVD. I set FORMAT to either SD OUT if I want to record the closed captions, or 480i if I don't; and I set SCREEN MODE to SIDE CROP if the material is SD upconverted to HD at the station, or to SQUEEZE if it's real HD.

[...]

I can record to both [the Sony and an external SD DVR] simultaneously, but I think the Sony has to be turned on so the output is active. And of course I'd have to schedule the recording on both boxes.

As expected, I have to leave the Sony turned on. Also, if the Sony is connected to my TV via HDMI, I have to leave the TV turned on! When I turn off the TV, the Sony switches the format to 1080i, and when I turn the TV back on, the Sony switches again, to Auto HDMI format. If I'm recording upconverted SD material, that means 1080i, so I get bars on the sides, and the whole thing squeezed into a 4:3 image.

This happens only with an HDMI connection. If I use a component-video connection from the Sony to the TV, the format stays where I set it, at least so far.

Some people have noted that the Sony automatically reverts to Auto HDMI after being off for a while. I hope that's only when something is plugged into the HDMI port. I'll set mine to 480i and leave it off overnight with just the component connection and see what happens.

Don't you just love it when your equipment tries to think for you? :rolleyes:

Daniel Tonks

11-24-05, 12:34 AM

As expected, I have to leave the Sony turned on. Also, if the Sony is connected to my TV via HDMI, I have to leave the TV turned on! When I turn off the TV, the Sony switches the format to 1080i, and when I turn the TV back on, the Sony switches again, to Auto HDMI format. If I'm recording upconverted SD material, that means 1080i, so I get bars on the sides, and the whole thing squeezed into a 4:3 image.

It should be clarified that the output setting has absolutely nothing to do with how the box records things. However I do find the switching annoying as well, to the point where I now use component. Picture's actually a bit better since I found the HDMI output a little too "bright" compared to my other HDMI sources (or even the DHG's component output for that matter).

Daniel Tonks

11-24-05, 12:37 AM

jtbell

11-24-05, 01:17 AM

It should be clarified that the output setting has absolutely nothing to do with how the box records things.

Right. If I screw up the output format, I can go back and try again, playing the HD recording and dubbing it to the other DVR. When I want to record stuff overnight or when I'm gone for a while, I'll just record to HD and then dub it later. Normally, I'm going to watch the stuff fairly soon after I record it, and I can dub it then without losing any time.

ATCtech

11-24-05, 08:58 AM

Thanks Daniel - I originally had it set to use my postal code and it did indeed pick up my local cable line-up (if I had cable!) as Cogeco. I couldn't see the data via PBS containing that information so I was guessing the CFTO VBI data might be the Canadian TGOS info. I reset it to a Buffalo zip code last night and it's *finally* picked up the proper time over night. I'm going to let it sit all day turned off to see how complete the channel and guide listings are for US cable & Buffalo locals. If I get brave after that I'll change it back to my postal code and see what happens.

Bob

bierboy

11-24-05, 09:37 AM

...However I do find the switching annoying as well, to the point where I now use component. Picture's actually a bit better since I found the HDMI output a little too "bright" compared to my other HDMI sources (or even the DHG's component output for that matter).Daniel - good thought. As I posted in response to someone else noticing that, I have the same issue; just a bit too bright for me. I may switch to components, too.

fox200

11-24-05, 01:55 PM

Think I'll get 2!

pri9908

11-24-05, 03:26 PM

Think I'll get 2!

Please take a good look at all of these posts before you make your purchases.

toxlab

11-24-05, 08:03 PM

I had originally posted the fact that Sony apparently discontinued the DHG-DD250, mainly because I was ready to buy one from BB at the $499 price and I just happened to check the sony site two days in a row (one day it was there and the next it vanished!). I suspect that BB knows the reason Sony discontinued this device since they are the ones dumping the unit for a low price. It still seems like the best bet for my needs, which is to record OTA HD programming. I hope that you will help me decide what might the best choice (buy or not). I do not plan to suscribed to cable or dish in the near future due to its inflated price for HD programming, but mostly because we are satisfied with local programming and it is all in OTA HD. So, my request is for your opinions as to the pros and cons of getting one of the DHG-HDD250 before they are gone. I will get the BB 4 yr extended warranty with it. Also, maybe the input here might also help others that are thinking about this purchase. The only alternative I see is the LG lst-3410S which has firewire but a smaller hard drive. Thanks!

nathan118

11-24-05, 08:48 PM

dw8146

11-24-05, 09:44 PM

Toxlab,

Like you, I'm only interested in recording OTA HD and the HDD-250 appears to provide the best value at the now discounted price of $499. Thanks to the posts on this forum I learned about Sony discontinuing the unit, but decided it still was worth grabbing one. The problem I ran into was the Milwaukee Best Buy store I went to informed me they returned their stock to the warehouse in the past week. Their website is still listing it as for sale, so I placed an order yesterday to have them ship me a unit. Currently the order status is still listed as "Order in process of being fulfilled". Hopefully the delay is due to the holiday and that the status will shortly show as shipped.

optivity

11-24-05, 10:26 PM

Hey Toxlab...

I'm using my HDD-250 for the exact same reasons as you. I only watch OTA stuff, and I figure subscribing to cable or satellite to get an HD pvr is no cheaper. After a year of subscriptions it's already more money.

Overall my unit has been awesome. There was the odd couple days about a week or two ago, but the guide has completely filled in and works fine. In the 3+ months I've owned it things have been great. Is the unit perfect? nope, but I don't have to pay any monthly fees, and I can record HDTV. If that's what you want, you have very few choices. I paid closer to $600, so $500 is a deal. I'm hoping my unit lasts me several years until a format of high definiton dvds are finally out (or hd-pvrs are in greater abundance). Good luck whatever you decide.Like you, I'm only interested in recording OTA HD and the HDD-250 appears to provide the best value at the now discounted price of $499. Thanks to the posts on this forum I learned about Sony discontinuing the unit, but decided it still was worth grabbing one. The problem I ran into was the Milwaukee Best Buy store I went to informed me they returned their stock to the warehouse in the past week. Their website is still listing it as for sale, so I placed an order yesterday to have them ship me a unit. Currently the order status is still listed as "Order in process of being fulfilled". Hopefully the delay is due to the holiday and that the status will shortly show as shipped.Sorry to inform you that soon Digital Content providers will control OTA transmissions with a "Broadcast Flag" (http://news.com.com/Politicians+want+to+raise+broadcast+flag/2100-1028_3-5886722.html?tag=nefd.top)

Mitch G

11-24-05, 10:57 PM

There is some evidence that there will be an HD Tivo next spring. I've never used Tivo, but is sounds like it does have a superior interface. So, if you are partial to Tivo and willing to cover the subscription charges and can wait half a year, then that may be an option. But, who knows how much that HD Tivo will be.

Personally, so far, I'm happy with the Sony. Even if it's discontinued, at $500 it's a pretty good deal and seems to be doing what it's supposed to be doing. That said, I've only had mine for about a week. So, 3 weeks from now I may be returning it.

Mitch

jtbell

11-25-05, 12:30 AM

[...] the Milwaukee Best Buy store I went to informed me they returned their stock to the warehouse in the past week.

Interesting. When I visited the BB in Spartanburg SC this past Tuesday, they didn't have it on display, but there were four boxes on the shelf above the display. The salesclerk told me that they had just arrived, and in fact the web site's store locator had flagged them as available there the previous day, but not a few days earlier. I'd been checking to see where they were available, and had been planning to drive to Columbia before I saw them turn up in Spartanburg which is somewhat closer.

RichB

11-25-05, 10:16 AM

bierboy

11-25-05, 10:34 AM

Please elaborate. Really, an HD TiVo, I would pay more for that.

-- RichThis announcement (http://www.tivo.com/cms_static/press_19.html) came at CES in January, and official TiVo word is it, indeed, will come out in 2006. They won't say when in 2006, however.

RichB

11-25-05, 10:39 AM

This announcement (http://www.tivo.com/cms_static/press_19.html) came at CES in January, and official TiVo word is it, indeed, will come out in 2006. They won't say when in 2006, however.

Thanks. They did say early 2006 though :)

-- Rich

optivity

11-25-05, 11:04 AM

"TiVo Developing High-Definition, Digital Cable Ready DVR" (http://www.tivo.com/cms_static/press_19.html)

"The DVR will support CableCARD technology, enabling consumers to access their favorite premium and HD cable channels with the ease of use and powerful search capabilities of the TiVo® service."

"We believe that the deployment of CableCARD technology is an essential development for the future of digital television. By eliminating the need for a separate set top box, consumers will enjoy more choice and flexibility over their entertainment delivery"

"CableCARDs free consumers from needing a cable set top box and offer consumers choice in how they get their digital entertainment. By providing consumer choice, companies like TiVo can provide an alternative to the traditional cable set top box and offer innovative services and content that address the consumer's personal interests"

If the Conditional Access policies currently enforced by the MSOs is not modified, I doubt HD-Tivos will be able to record much of the high definition content as provided.

dw8146

11-25-05, 11:13 AM

...the web site's store locator had flagged them as available there the previous day, but not a few days earlier...

The website also listed the Milwaukee store as having the HDD-250 in stock, and the store's inventory showed four on hand, but the reality was there were none to be had, at least at that store.

Checked this a.m. and see that my on line order status has changed to shipped. So it appears that one can still get these units via on line ordering.

bierboy

11-25-05, 11:26 AM

Thanks. They did say early 2006 though :)

-- RichA TiVo official stated (within the past month on the TiVo Community Forum (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3466607#post3466607) ) that it would be in '06. He would not, however, say in which quarter of the year.

bierboy

11-25-05, 11:28 AM

If the Conditional Access policies currently enforced by the MSOs is not modified, I doubt HD-Tivos will be able to record much of the high definition content as provided.Give it a rest...you've made your point numerous times in this thread.

RichB

11-25-05, 11:51 AM

If the Conditional Access policies currently enforced by the MSOs is not modified, I doubt HD-Tivos will be able to record much of the high definition content as provided.

We shall see. So long as FF is the only skip, I think that networks would prefer having viewers with TiVo/PVRs than none at all. Even at FF, we see the commercials.

All cable and satellite companies offer DVRs, these are not going away. Networks that disable them will lose viewers. I think this has to play out in the marketplace. Just in case, I have 2 Fusion and 1 MyHD card to record just in case the Broadcast Flag gets passed.

-- Rich

optivity

11-25-05, 12:04 PM

We shall see. So long as FF is the only skip, I think that networks would prefer having viewers with TiVo/PVRs than none at all. Even at FF, we see the commercials.

All cable and satellite companies offer DVRs, these are not going away. Networks that disable them will lose viewers. I think this has to play out in the marketplace. Just in case, I have 2 Fusion and 1 MyHD card to record just in case the Broadcast Flag gets passed.

-- RichCable/satellite providers will continue to rent & support their own DVRs. I use both an SA PowerKEY CableCARD & SA8300HD-DVR with my PDP. The point I'm trying to make (much to "bierboy's" chagrin) is if people are considering spending BIG bucks on DCR HD-Tivos, etc., there is a strong possibility these devices will not be authorized to record HD content.

RichB

11-25-05, 12:28 PM

Cable/satellite providers will continue to rent & support their own DVRs. I use both an SA PowerKEY CableCARD & SA8300HD-DVR with my PDP. The point I'm trying to make (much to "bierboy's" chagrin) is if people are considering spending BIG bucks on DCR HD-Tivos, etc., there is a strong possibility these devices will not be authorized to record HD content.

It is hard to believe that recording HD to a closed box like a DVR would be shut down. I think that predicting that at this stage is unrealistic.

-- Rich

optivity

11-25-05, 12:51 PM

Really? From LGs PY2DR series plasma TV owners manual:

• DVR (Digital Video Recorder) : A device which records and plays broadcast program contents onto a hard disk in TV or SET TOP BOX.
• If available hard-disk space is low when TimeShift is initiated, It will disappear automatically from the oldest part.
• In order to save hard-disk space, no storage is done when there is no signal.
• The total storage space of hard-disk is 160GB, there are 10GB minimum reserved for TimeShift.
• When turning power on, it may take up to 3 minutes to initialize the HDD.
• The TimeShift function will not initiate for a copy-protected program.
• Because an analog broadcast is transfered to a digital signal, video that contains rapid movement may show "cross stripes". This happens when the analog signal is compressed and then restored in the digital signal. The unit will attempt to soften the video in order to reduce this effect of excessive picture noise.
• When using the PIP/POP mode, TimeShift is stopped.
•In Video, Front Video, Antenna,Cable sources, TimeShift is available.
• In Audio only channel, TimeShift is not available.

Carnack the Magnificent says: Unless copy-protection is changed HD-Tivos will behave in the same manner.

davygrvy

11-25-05, 12:59 PM

It is hard to believe that recording HD to a closed box like a DVR would be shut down. I think that predicting that at this stage is unrealistic.

-- Rich

The scary part, for me, is that this Sony box is "out of my control". We need some hacker team to start making some new firmware to not only turn on the USB port, but to strip all that nasty broadcast flag/content protection crap.

RichB

11-25-05, 01:13 PM

Alan Curry

11-25-05, 01:36 PM

davygrvy

11-25-05, 02:51 PM

Hi Mitch,

You're right -- the recording problems I've had have occurred "via" the CableCard. I haven't and wouldn't expect to have any problems "via" QAM or OTA. But, I think that when using a CableCard, the DVR and the CableCard are one and the same, meaning that the card controls the behavior of all encrypted cable channels. The information I posted above re copyright control:

Host Validation: Valid 00
Copy Protection Key: Disabled
CCI: 0x00

are actually in the CableCard diagnostics on a screen that says -- this information provided by your cable provider (or something like that). So my surmise is that there is nothing inherently wrong with the DVR itself, but rather with the way its been provisioned by Comcast . But I don't know and so far nobody at Comcast does either. I've got two weeks to find out because this box goes back to BB -- I'm not going to live with hit & miss "recording of this program not allowed, etc, etc."

It might help to find someone on this forum who has had no problems with conditional access and see how their CableCard is provisioned. Anyone?

Jeff
I had some problems trying to record channel 136 (G4, techTV) off Comcast once. Same error, "recording of this program not allowed ...". But for some reason, that I know not, it cleared up. The phone tech sent my box a "HIT", but I don't know if that was the solution.

What you might ask Comcast to do, is to send out a tech so they can reinitialize your CableCard. They need to send you an "INIT" followed by a "HIT" to reset your CableCard. For some reason, a tech needs to be present for them to do it.

jeffcmcc

11-25-05, 03:15 PM

I had some problems trying to record channel 136 (G4, techTV) off Comcast once. Same error, "recording of this program not allowed ...". But for some reason, that I know not, it cleared up. The phone tech sent my box a "HIT", but I don't know if that was the solution.

What you might ask Comcast to do, is to send out a tech so they can reinitialize your CableCard. They need to send you an "INIT" followed by a "HIT" to reset your CableCard. For some reason, a tech needs to be present for them to do it.

Did that (sortof). Finally got through to level whatever technical support and talked to a guy who really sounded like he knew what he was doing. He said he noticed something in the CC codes that didn't look right. He changed it then "init" "hit". But the problem showed up again this morning -- I had scheduled the unit to record "Chilly Scenes of Winter" on SHOHD. This is an old movie (1979) that you wouldn't expect to have any kind of "high priority" CCI info. But "recording not permitted" etc. I've successfully recorded a bunch of stuff (and much more recent) on SHOHD. The whole thing seems totally hit-and-miss, twitchy.

optivity

11-25-05, 03:26 PM

Where does it say that the DVR funciton is disabled?On page 74 of the owners manual for the 50/60PY2DR

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/py2dr_timeshift.JPG

RichB

11-25-05, 03:29 PM

On page 74 of the "LG PLASMA TV OWNER’S MANUAL" (http://us.lgservice.com/gcsc/b2c/hpi/main) for the 50/60PY2DR

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/py2dr_timeshift.JPG

Timeshift is a recording function but not the recording function.

-- Rich

optivity

11-25-05, 03:32 PM

What's up with that? :eek:

You might want to edit your post like I did mine... sorry about the error!

optivity

11-25-05, 03:45 PM

PhilB

11-25-05, 03:51 PM

The scary part, for me, is that this Sony box is "out of my control". We need some hacker team to start making some new firmware to not only turn on the USB port, but to strip all that nasty broadcast flag/content protection crap.

Your missunderstanding of the use of the broadcast flag is astounding. Nothing like some good old fashioned FUD to get the rabble riled up.

-phil

RichB

11-25-05, 03:58 PM

What's up with that? :eek:

You might want to edit your post like I did mine... sorry about the error!

Not sure I am following you. All I am saying is that Timeshift is one way to record. The other is the schedule a recording. The documentation you posted indicates that timeshift is disabled.

There are a great many DVR's out there all major cable and satellite systems have them. Strangely enough all them actually record HD :)

-- Rich

optivity

11-25-05, 04:04 PM

Your missunderstanding of the use of the broadcast flag is astounding. Nothing like some good old fashioned FUD to get the rabble riled up.

-philI prefer to educate the "masses." Until digital cable subscribers unite and act together our CATV providers will continue to "hose" us... and still we "pay" for digital content we are not being "authorized" to access because there are few or no other alternatives.

switch to DSL ;)

optivity

11-25-05, 04:08 PM

Not sure I am following you. I meant where you quoted me and I had that bad link to LG...

We are sorry that this page is not availible right now.
Please notify this situation to your subsidiary contact-point or
GCSC Master with the name of the error page.
Please capture and send us the error page if it is possible.
Thank You!

anderdea

11-25-05, 04:57 PM

I was able to find some info on this after reading almost all off the posts here but nothing definitive.

The manual says to PLAY a recorded program (I have a new HDD250) go to the "Rec List" select the recorded program and hold "play" on the remote for 1 second and voila, NOT! (Page 55 in the manual)
I did see the work around posted here on page 67 and that works but is a pain compared to just hitting "Play". Has anyone been able to get "Play" to work after selecting a recorded program? If not is there a software update that is suppose to fix this? I was somewhat supprized to see that both of the units are no longer on the Sony WEB site, what gives.

I was about to bring the unit back to Best Buy (By the way best price on the WEB) and then I saw the info in this very informative forum.

My appologoesies if this was answered here and I just missed it, there's a lot of info to wade through.

Thanks, Don

bierboy

11-25-05, 05:27 PM

...I did see the work around posted here on page 67 and that works but is a pain compared to just hitting "Play"....Can you give the post number? "page 67" doesn't help when you use different browsers, different font sizes, etc. Thanks.

re: your question, it's only one or two more button presses to get it to play. You highlight the show, then arrow down, then hit select and it plays.

pyedog

11-25-05, 05:49 PM

anderdea

11-25-05, 06:30 PM

bierboy,
Sorry, meant page 67 of the users manual. It's strange that the operation as stated on page 55 of the users manual doesn't work and not to much more of a mention of it in the forum. I was ready to bring the unit back to BB. I believe that the post that stated the work around was on page 5 of this forum. I am working remotely using a modem connection, not DSL as I have at home and it takes me forever to go back through the pages of this rather long thread. As I have been reading and gotten to page 41 of this thread, my question regarding the 250/500 missing from the Sony WEB site has been discussed at length.

cosmicvoid

11-25-05, 06:33 PM

The scary part, for me, is that this Sony box is "out of my control". We need some hacker team to start making some new firmware to not only turn on the USB port, but to strip all that nasty broadcast flag/content protection crap.Nope not me. The first thing I want is the ability to set the date and time manually.Yup, just what I was thinking. We need the time/date set most of all. This DVR could be an interesting platform for 3rd party software. I wonder if the copy flag handling is done in silicon or software.

Also, since hard drives are known to have variable lifetimes, it would be nice if someone posted a tutorial on making a back-up image of the boot drive. Has anyone posted the model number of the drive (for adding a 2nd drive to the HDD250)?

Mitch G

11-25-05, 11:44 PM

I'm interested in using the HDD250 to record local HDTV, but all of it is on UHF in my area (Raleigh NC), and the TV Guide info appears to come off of low VHF. Is it possible to hook a VHF antenna to the cable in and get the guide from there, and then hook a UHF antenna to the antenna in?

Also, I know folks had a lot of trouble early on getting the TV Guide info to load. This unit doesn't appear real useful without the guide info (especially if you can't get the time set). How good of a signal do you really need for the guide to download - will it work with a little snow?

Thanks for any advice,
-Jim

I don't know if this helps, but here's my situation. According to the service menu in my HDD250, the guide info comes on channel 2 (i.e. VHF) and my reception of the channel 2 and 2.1 (which is actually on channel 3) is always hit and miss - in fact I'm watching David Letterman transforming into large pixelated blocks as I type this - but the HDD250 is able to get the guide info. This is using an old antenna in my attic.

So, unless you are definitely staying out of VHF, I think you'll still be able to pull in the guide channel well enough to get the info.

Mitch

tdw

11-26-05, 12:13 AM

I have had my DHGHDD250 for a couple of days, and I have a problem recording from an HD channel that starts with 0. I can type in the number on the remote and the channel tunes properly at 0.613, but when I set up a recording or try to put the channel in the TV Guide it will not let me start with a leading 0. It changes my entry from 0.613 to 613

Has anyone else encountered this problem and come up with a solution?

Thanks

dp70

11-26-05, 12:54 AM

I opened my HDD250 this evening (photo (http://dp70.dyndns.org/tmp/hdd250_inside.jpg)) and the hard drive is a 250GB Western Digital Caviar SE, model WD2500JB-98GVC0 (photo (http://dp70.dyndns.org/tmp/hdd250_hdlabel.jpg)) using a standard 40-pin IDE interface. There is a bracket for mounting a second drive, and there is an unused connector on the power supply for the drive, too. It looks like to upgrade an HDD250, you would need another drive, a dual 80-pin IDE cable to replace the single drive cable, a custom power cable (converting a 4-pin header to a standard 4-pin PC power plug), and some miscellaneous mounting hardware.

Circuit City is currently having a Black Friday sale (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Western-Digital-Internal-Hard-Drive-WD2500JBRTL-/sem/rpsm/oid/70860/catOid/-12976/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) on what appears to be the retail model of this exact drive (WD2500JBRTL; RTL = retail?) for $59 after rebates and free shipping. The deal is good through Saturday 11/26. The next-best price is at newegg.com ($99 + shipping).

I don't know yet whether the HDD250's firmware will ACCEPT a second drive. However, from what I have seen so far in the Sony's diagnostic menus, the presence of a second drive is the only thing that differentiates an HDD500 from an HDD250; the firmware seems to be common to both models.

Probably the next interesting thing to do would be to try and mount the drive on my Linux box to back it up. According to the manual, it uses the XFS filesystem.

dp70

11-26-05, 02:30 AM

Just noticed something else that is very interesting: Sony originally planned to have an Ethernet port on these units. To the left of the USB port, there is an unpopulated spot on the mainboard for an Ethernet jack, and there's even a square hole cut through the metal case for it, covered up only by the sticker material of the back panel (you can feel it from the outside).

giantcycle

11-26-05, 07:31 AM

pri9908

11-26-05, 07:57 AM

I opened my HDD250 this evening (photo (http://dp70.dyndns.org/tmp/hdd250_inside.jpg)) and the hard drive is a 250GB Western Digital Caviar SE, model WD2500JB-98GVC0 (photo (http://dp70.dyndns.org/tmp/hdd250_hdlabel.jpg)) using a standard 40-pin IDE interface. There is a bracket for mounting a second drive, and there is an unused connector on the power supply for the drive, too. It looks like to upgrade an HDD250, you would need another drive, a dual 80-pin IDE cable to replace the single drive cable, a custom power cable (converting a 4-pin header to a standard 4-pin PC power plug), and some miscellaneous mounting hardware.

Circuit City is currently having a Black Friday sale (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Western-Digital-Internal-Hard-Drive-WD2500JBRTL-/sem/rpsm/oid/70860/catOid/-12976/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) on what appears to be the retail model of this exact drive (WD2500JBRTL; RTL = retail?) for $59 after rebates and free shipping. The deal is good through Saturday 11/26. Their web site seems to be rejecting orders for this item, though it might be possible to order by phone. The next-best price is at newegg.com ($99 + shipping).

I don't know yet whether the HDD250's firmware will ACCEPT a second drive. However, from what I have seen so far in the Sony's diagnostic menus, the presence of a second drive is the only thing that differentiates an HDD500 from an HDD250; the firmware seems to be common to both models.

Probably the next interesting thing to do would be to try and mount the drive on my Linux box to back it up. According to the manual, it uses the XFS filesystem.

I have an HDD500. Do you think the firemware will accept a drive larger than 250gb?

Daniel Tonks

11-26-05, 08:24 AM

I have an HDD500. Do you think the firemware will accept a drive larger than 250gb?

Since it's based on an open standard operating system... very possibly. Unless the drive parameter's are hard coded, which seems unlikely.

mswlogo

11-26-05, 09:19 AM

Mitch G

11-26-05, 10:09 AM

I have followed this thread with interest. All I want is a box to record and replay HDTV with the easy user interface and reliability of my 12-year-old Magnavox VCR. Is somebody going to make that and bring it to market? I'll happily pay $600 for such a box. Can't somebody make an HDTV recorder that works?

<rant off>

I'm using mine for OTA HDTV, and it works fine so far. I find a program in the guide, hit record and then let it do its job. I also like how you can watch a program while its recording (something that you can't do with a VCR) or watch an already recorded program while recording another. And, it only costs $500! :)

Mitch

spiff72

11-26-05, 10:22 AM

spiff72

11-26-05, 10:30 AM

Does anyone know how well (if at all) the TVGOS handles cable channel lineup changes?

I just got the HDD250 this past week, and coincidentally, my Charter cable system made some adjustments to their cable lineup, adding WGVU-DT (PBS), and moving around some of the digital weather channels, and they moved WXMI-DT (FOX) to a different location. I don't have a cablecard, so the channels are just found in their 104.2, and 104.3 locations (they aren't remapped to the higher channel numbers like they would be if I had a cablecard).

The problem I have is that WGVU-DT doesn't show up in my guide. I also don't have the OTA digital channel 3.1 in my guide (even though it shows up in the channel list in the "favorites" area). I worked around that by remapping the analog channel in the guide to the digital channel. This wasn't ideal, but I got it to work.

So anyway, does the TVGOS guide get updated periodically when the cableco's change their lineups?

tdw

11-26-05, 10:55 AM

I don't have one of these units yet, going to pick mine up tomorrow. But is there a way you can map that channel to another?
I tried remapping the channel, but neither the TVGOS or the recording screens will let me enter the channel number with a 0. on the front of it. It ignores those keypresses and changes 0.613 to 613, which isn't the real channel number.

Anyone else had this problem?

lewlew

11-26-05, 11:30 AM

bierboy

11-26-05, 11:54 AM

I am intrigued by the speculation in this board about adding a HDD or just backing up their drives from this unit.

I have had mine less than a week, and I love the ability to record HD! I am bothered by the posts about the supposedly upcoming HD TiVo, as I really love my Series 2 TiVo (far better interface than the Sony). Part of me says "wait", and return the sony in the hope that they really do introduce it early next year, but I am not sure about it. If it had dual tuners, I might be interested. I also like the fact that the TiVo can be networked and can get its guide data from the internet. I also have my doubts about the HD TiVo ever being released.

On the other hand I like the fact that after paying $500 for the Sony, I am done. No monthly fees. I would guess that I have probably paid far more than that on the initial cost of the TiVo (I bought it shortly after the series 2 came out), plus the $12.95/month. I know that you can buy a lifetime sub, but I wasn't convinced that TiVo was going to survive.

I am still debating on whether I should go to the local BB and get the extended warranty on the Sony (since it is discontinued). Seems like it could be good insurance in the event that Sony stops supporting the unit. I am assuming that I can add it at the local store if I bought it online and forgot to add it to my cart at the time I bought it.
Spiff - The HD SA TiVo will come out in 2006, and it WILL have dual HD tuners. They announced it at CES this last January, and (as I posted previously in this thread) they have confirmed that. Last January they said first quarter of 06, but the recent confirmation would only say 2006. I am in virtually the same boat as you; I've had the Sony for about 9 days now, plus I also have a Series 2 SA TiVo which I love. With the two, I now have HD recording capability plus tons of SD space on the Sony along with a second SD recorder with the TiVo. The Sony has done everything I've asked it to, and I agree, it's nice not having to pay for the, admittedly abyssmal, program guide. Everything's been paid for. I, too, pay the $12.95/month for the TiVo guide, but feel it's well worth it. It is far superior to TVGOS. I could return my Sony (I have another 21 days to decide), but my inclination is to keep it, perhaps buy the extended warranty available thru Crutchfield, then, when the dual tuner SA HD TiVo comes out, consider getting that too, and ditch my Series 2 SA 40-hour unit. That way I don't pay any more than I'm already paying monthly for TiVo, and I will have THREE HD capable tuners; two of them using TiVo's excellent program guide. Of course, that would depend a lot on the TiVo's pricing.

alerion

11-26-05, 12:50 PM

PhillyC

11-26-05, 04:29 PM

My experience was that TVGOS does not rapidly update (if at all) channel lineups. Perhaps others who have cable could weigh in.

Comcast Chicago added Comcast Sports Net a year ago (great for local games in HD), but TVGOS still does not have this channel. INHD and INHD2 have been around for a long time, yet INHD2 does not exist in the guide.

Let's put it this way: I won't be buying any Gemstar stock. Does anyone have a good opinion this company? They are not exactly customer oriented.

bierboy

11-26-05, 04:40 PM

Does re-doing the channel scan result in new additions being added to the TVGOS lineup? Just a thought - tho I know it's a pain to redo your entire channel lineup and order :(.

I know that TiVo's program guide has reflected the CBS decision to dump next Tuesday's Threshold episode but TVGOS still has it listed. So it does seem to be less adaptive.

jeffcmcc

11-26-05, 07:20 PM

I had some problems trying to record channel 136 (G4, techTV) off Comcast once. Same error, "recording of this program not allowed ...". But for some reason, that I know not, it cleared up. The phone tech sent my box a "HIT", but I don't know if that was the solution.

What you might ask Comcast to do, is to send out a tech so they can reinitialize your CableCard. They need to send you an "INIT" followed by a "HIT" to reset your CableCard. For some reason, a tech needs to be present for them to do it.

Well, maybe it cleared up. On the other hand you may not have recreated the the state that caused it in the first place. I've been fooling around with this today trying to drill down on my problem. Try this: tune to your 136 (G4, techTV) -- then power off the unit (actually its a standby state I don't know why they label the button as power) -- wait a bit then power back on (come out of standby) -- then try to do a manual recording. When I do this, the recording fails with the "recording not permitted, etc." notice. If it does fail, tune to another channel, power off then on, tune to 136 and try the manual recording. When I do this the recording works fine. Let me know what happens -- I think there's more to this "recording not permitted" thing than I originally thought.

Jeff

ps - For those just tuning in, I'm on comcast with a motorola cable card and I think Davy is too.

tdw

11-26-05, 08:53 PM

tdw-

I have not had your problem and do not have a cure for you. However, I am very curious about the HD channel that starts with 0.. This does not appear to be an OTA channel nor does it appear to be a cable channel (I'm only familiar with comcast so anything is actually possible.)

Please tells us all you can about this channel.

The setup is direct cable from the wall. No OTA antenna and no cable card. The channel is 0.613 WTVTHD Fox in Tampa-St Pete, but it is not the only channel that I receive that starts with a 0. I also receive other channels, mostly PBS that are also 0.610, 0.615, etc...

I have Bright House Networks, and I do not have a Cable Card installed. The DVR is plugged directly into the cable and not through a cable box.

The oddity is that I can direct tune the channel by typing in 0.613, and I can channel up and channel down to see the channel, I can add it to my favorites and I can even pause and rewind the channel. The problem arises when I try to do anything related to the TV Guide such as add it to the channel line up or set up a recording. I went into the TV Guide setup to rearrange the channels, and I have a listing for WTVTHD, which is the channel in question. I have to click on it and get the screen on the left side which shows the channel properties. First option or field is enable, which I set to on, then there's the source which is cable since that's all I have plugged into the DVR, next is the Tuning Channel, which should be 0.613, but When I try to enter a leading period, or even a 0 then period, it won't accept a period. Anything else I type is entered as is. So 0.613 ends up as 613, which is not a valid channel for me. Lastly is position, which is merely where it is displayed on the TV Guide listing.

Same problem occurs when setting up a manual recording. There's the good old tuning channel field that does not accept a leading period. I have other channels that have a period in them, wuch as WFTSHD at 28.1, but that isn't a problem for that field. Only when there's a 0 is there a problem.

I pulled up the diagnostics menu, and it tells me that the TVGOS info is coming from 0.613, which I thought was odd since everyone here says theirs comes through the PBS channel.

I called Sony and got escalated through first and second level support pretty quickly. They first told me to reset the box by unplugging it and then by TVGuide/Exit on the front panel, both or which I had already done prior to calling. The third level guy, the only one who seemed to be located in the US, was intrigued by my problem and said he didn't have any prior cases on this issue. He took down my cable company's name and asked for the first few channels in the lineup so he could match it with a known listing. He told me that he was escalating the issue to the TVGOS guys. Says that perhaps an update to the TVGOS could be done over the cable. I asked if there was some kind of firmware or other update that I could do as a consumer, but he said that's a "send it back for service" type of problem.

We both agreed that this seemed to be a problem with the TVGOS "tuning channel" field not supporting a leading period.

I told him that I was getting a Cable Card on Tuesday, and he thought the problem would go away with the addition of the cable card. That card would remap the channels to the Bright House numbering scheme. Since Bright House doesn't normally list them with a leading 0, they should all be listed in the 600 range since that's where a bulk of my HD channels are located.

I asked him what was up with the DHGHDD250 disappearing from the web site, and he said that it was removed likely to make room for next year's model. I asked him what model that was and he didn't know. I asked if they were going to get rid of the buggy TVGOS, and he chuckled and said he didn't know. Did mention that they have a lot of support calls on that part of the system. The second level support guy was trying to walk me through refreshing the guide data when I told him that it was all there.

davygrvy

11-26-05, 09:19 PM

Well, maybe it cleared up. On the other hand you may not have recreated the the state that caused it in the first place. I've been fooling around with this today trying to drill down on my problem. Try this: tune to your 136 (G4, techTV) -- then power off the unit (actually its a standby state I don't know why they label the button as power) -- wait a bit then power back on (come out of standby) -- then try to do a manual recording. When I do this, the recording fails with the "recording not permitted, etc." notice. If it does fail, tune to another channel, power off then on, tune to 136 and try the manual recording. When I do this the recording works fine. Let me know what happens -- I think there's more to this "recording not permitted" thing than I originally thought.

Jeff

ps - For those just tuning in, I'm on comcast with a motorola cable card and I think Davy is too.

Yup, same setup. Motorola v4.05, comcast. Yeah, switching channels then back then doing manual record did fix it. I haven't done any timed recordings on that channel lately, but CCI is 0x00. So something was a bit odd, a stange software bug or something. Those timed recordings did start at 1am, so I was assuming it was interupting the TVGOS downloads. Probably a bad assumption..

davygrvy

11-26-05, 09:24 PM

Your missunderstanding of the use of the broadcast flag is astounding. Nothing like some good old fashioned FUD to get the rabble riled up.

-phil

Want some FUD? Here's some more...

Now with our wonderful DHG-HDD250 model discontinued by Sony, we can expect a plethora of maturing firmware updates to last us well into the future.
DHG-HDD250 (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=DHGHDD250&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=tvhav_HDDVRs)

dozens

11-26-05, 09:33 PM

Well I had my cable card installed on friday and my first failed recording friday night :( I tried recording HBO HD, I can watch the channel just fine.

A couple questions/observations:

Is it possible to see the tv guide screen over SD outputs (composite or s-video) ? I would like to avoid having to turn on my FP to schedule recordings but I can't seem to get the guide to show up on the SD outputs.

Does it take a while for the format front panel button or remote key to work ? It seems like I have to press it 3-4 times before it responds.

So far I am not impressed with the DHG :(

mswlogo

11-26-05, 10:02 PM

Are folks having problems that are strictly using it for OTA?

bierboy

11-26-05, 10:18 PM

Not using a cablecard, but am using cable and OTA. No problems so far (but only had it for just over a week).

pri9908

11-26-05, 10:29 PM

Are folks having problems that are strictly using it for OTA?

I use it just for OTA free HD.The only issues I have had appear to be strickly software related. (TVGOS) I'm still recovering from the "meltdown" that occurred a couple of weeks back. Did a front panel reset as well as a software reset. The clock has been enabled but I will not check the TV Guide until Monday(112805).

pri9908

11-26-05, 10:31 PM

Want some FUD? Here's some more...

Now with our wonderful DHG-HDD250 model discontinued by Sony, we can expect a plethora of maturing firmware updates to last us well into the future.
DHG-HDD250 (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=DHGHDD250&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=tvhav_HDDVRs)

I wouldn't bet on it.

PhilB

11-26-05, 11:10 PM

I prefer to educate the "masses." Until digital cable subscribers unite and act together our CATV providers will continue to "hose" us... and still we "pay" for digital content we are not being "authorized" to access because there are few or no other alternatives.

switch to DSL ;)

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I fail to see how your post has any revelance to the broadcast flag at all. Can you please clarify it for me?

Thanks,

-phil

jtbell

11-26-05, 11:23 PM

Is it possible to see the tv guide screen over SD outputs (composite or s-video)?

Yes. Using the FORMAT button on the remote, select "SD Out". This causes all on-screen displays (menus, status indicators, closed captions, and EPG) to appear on the SD outputs instead of the HD outputs (component and HDMI).

Does it take a while for the format front panel button or remote key to work ? It seems like I have to press it 3-4 times before it responds.

When you hold the FORMAT button down, the indicators on the screen and on the front panel appear after a brief pause, with the current setting. Then you can cycle rapidly through the various settings by releasing and pressing the button repeatedly. During this process the format does not actually change. When you reach the desired setting and release the button for the last time, the format actually changes after another brief pause.

davygrvy

11-27-05, 01:57 AM

I wouldn't bet on it.

My point exactly.. Time for me to start looking for a replacement and this time one that's based on open components. http://www.mythtv.org/index.php

mango halley

11-27-05, 02:23 AM

I see that the source software appears to be linux. Has anyone copied the hd image to transfer to the 2nd drive in order to expand the drives?

pri9908

11-27-05, 09:16 AM

My point exactly.. Time for me to start looking for a replacement and this time one that's based on open components. http://www.mythtv.org/index.php

A build from scratch? A world without TVGOS? Sounds intriguing.

Www.mythtv.org appears to be a great place to start. With resources like this, building a DVR may actually become mainstream in the near future. By the time our Sony DVR's burn out for good, we will have acquired all the skills necessary to assemble our own replacement units. I guess I have a lot of homework to do in the meantime as I am not familiar with the Linux OS.

Thanks for the post.

mswlogo

11-27-05, 09:28 AM

optivity

11-27-05, 10:00 AM

optivity

11-27-05, 10:19 AM

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I fail to see how your post has any revelance to the broadcast flag at all. Can you please clarify it for me?

Thanks,

-philThe relevance to this thread is cable providers prevent the recording of HD content for DCR devices under the guise of unauthorized use... and content providers will eventually prevent recording of HD OTA content via a "Broadcast Flag" (http://www.eff.org/IP/Video/HDTV/). Currently, I am subscribed to Time Warner and use their CableCARD, but I am not authorized to play Dolby digital sound on my Onkyo 6.1 channel receiver for most of the digital tier & HD channels I pay for.

Consumers are being "hosed" by the MPAA, content/cable/satellite providers and TV/DVR manufacturers... because we are being sold digital services and the products to use them... but when we acquire everything we need... content restrictions prevent us from using what we paid for.

Even worse, cable providers "lie" to... and mislead their customers regarding what is going on and "typically" blame the manufacturers product instead. Even though all of these products are endorsed by Cable Labs and adhere to the OCAP 1.0 specification.

Mitch G

11-27-05, 11:22 AM

A build from scratch? A world without TVGOS? Sounds intriguing.

Www.mythtv.org appears to be a great place to start. With resources like this, building a DVR may actually become mainstream in the near future. By the time our Sony DVR's burn out for good, we will have acquired all the skills necessary to assemble our own replacement units. I guess I have a lot of homework to do in the meantime as I am not familiar with the Linux OS.

Thanks for the post.

I'm not trying to dampen your enthusiasm, but just wanted to throw some reality (well, at least my reality) into the picture. I started out looking at doing an HTPC. I looked at both Windows and Linux based approaches and couldn't see me doing what I wanted (OTA HD and Cable SD recording with remote control and in an slim package) for less than $1K. Granted, you end up with a bit more such as a DVD player, and a better guide. But, even then the WAF was still likely going to be pretty low. I already get grief from the wife about "simple" tasks like playing a DVD on a DVD player. So, when I found the DHG at $600 (and eventually at $500), I figured this was the way to go. Plus I didn't have spend several weeks finding the right components, assembling and testing the setup.

That said, different people value different capabilities differently. For me, the DHG was the right way to go. Basically plug and play for me and a pretty good WAF so far.

Mitch

mswlogo

11-27-05, 11:25 AM

Folks,

Going to pick up a HDD250 at best buy in about an hour. I also got the 4 year best buy warranty (which I usually would not do).

Would most of you still buy one today given the status of the unit?

jeffcmcc

11-27-05, 11:30 AM

Well I had my cable card installed on friday and my first failed recording friday night :( I tried recording HBO HD, I can watch the channel just fine.

Assuming you're authorized to record a particular channel, try tuning to a different channel than the one you've scheduled to record, before putting it on standby. My experience has been that in all cases (cablecard channels) if it's tuned to the channel scheduled to be recorded before being put on standby the recording will fail. Likewise, if it is tuned to a channel when coming out of standby it will not record that channel, manual or otherwise, unless you tune to another channel then back again. At least that has been my experience. And here's another wrinkle -- I find that if I'm tuned to SHOHD then tune to HBOHD, the latter will always fail to record. So I can't schedule SHOHD followed by HBOHD for a particular evening. I have no idea what that's all about. I haven't had this problem with OTA channels, seems to be a cablecard issue.

If I follow these rules I can record anything. So I've come to a tentative conclusion that the problem is not the permissions, as near as I can tell Comcast has this box set for wide open, I can even record the music channels which I thought was not possible. Seems to me that before a recording or after coming out of standby on a particular channel the cable card needs to be goosed with a channel change. Maybe standby puts it to sleep or something but I don't have the technical expertise to even come close to figuring that one out.

dszigeti

11-27-05, 11:56 AM

Quote:
Assuming you're authorized to record a particular channel, try tuning to a different channel than the one you've scheduled to record, before putting it on standby. My experience has been that in all cases (cablecard channels) if it's tuned to the channel scheduled to be recorded before being put on standby the recording will fail.
-------------
Hmmm. That's interesting ... I wonder if the same theory applies to OTA recording? It will be difficult to remember to change the channel though :-(

The other amusing problem I have questions on, is this little quandry ... My unit again failed to record CSI on Thursday night. I have set up up for a weekly record from 9 to 10. But CSI seems to be starting around 3 minutes late recently - I have even seen the TVGOS show the late start. So my hypothetical question is, what does the HDD500/TVGOS do when it is scheduled to record CSI from 9 till 10, but when it starts up, CSI is not listed - does it stop recording? It sure seems like it ...

Overall - it still looks to me like there are bugs in the rpogramming of TVGOS and/or the HDD500.

optivity

11-27-05, 12:26 PM

Assuming you're authorized to record a particular channel, try tuning to a different channel than the one you've scheduled to record, before putting it on standby. My experience has been that in all cases (cablecard channels) if it's tuned to the channel scheduled to be recorded before being put on standby the recording will fail. Likewise, if it is tuned to a channel when coming out of standby it will not record that channel, manual or otherwise, unless you tune to another channel then back again. At least that has been my experience. And here's another wrinkle -- I find that if I'm tuned to SHOHD then tune to HBOHD, the latter will always fail to record. So I can't schedule SHOHD followed by HBOHD for a particular evening. I have no idea what that's all about. I haven't had this problem with OTA channels, seems to be a cablecard issue.

If I follow these rules I can record anything. So I've come to a tentative conclusion that the problem is not the permissions, as near as I can tell Comcast has this box set for wide open, I can even record the music channels which I thought was not possible. Seems to me that before a recording or after coming out of standby on a particular channel the cable card needs to be goosed with a channel change. Maybe standby puts it to sleep or something but I don't have the technical expertise to even come close to figuring that one out.Just bring up the CP authorization screen for your Sony DHG-HDD250/500. You will see CCI flag 0x02 with ECMs (entitlement control messages) that disable your video time scheduled record function.

CATV providers authorize the record function for their STB-DVRs because they want you to rent them instead of using a CableCARD to communicate with a competitor’s product.

The CableCARD is just a mechanism used to authorize and decrypt digital signals... it is your cable providers Conditional Access policy that determines what HD digital content your DHG-HDD250/500 can record.

jeffcmcc

11-27-05, 12:37 PM

Just bring up the CP authorization screen for your Sony DHG-HDD250/500. You will see CCI flag 0x02 with ECMs (entitlement control messages) that disable your video time scheduled record function.

Nope. That's not it. The ECMs are always the same and the CCI flag is always 0x00. As I posted above, if I follow those rules the scheduled recordings occur without fail.

RichB

11-27-05, 12:46 PM

CATV providers authorize the record function for their STB-DVRs because they want you to rent them instead of using a CableCARD to communicate with a competitor’s product.

I have detected a change in tone from the customer service from Comcast in the Boston area. Verizon FIOS is coming first with internet then with TV. With increased competition, comes responsiveness.

-- Rich

nathan118

11-27-05, 12:55 PM

Quote:
The other amusing problem I have questions on, is this little quandry ... My unit again failed to record CSI on Thursday night. I have set up up for a weekly record from 9 to 10. But CSI seems to be starting around 3 minutes late recently - I have even seen the TVGOS show the late start. So my hypothetical question is, what does the HDD500/TVGOS do when it is scheduled to record CSI from 9 till 10, but when it starts up, CSI is not listed - does it stop recording? It sure seems like it ...

I don't think the unit checks the specific scheduling of shows when it records. At 9pm on Thursday it knows you set a show to record, and it will record it. The unit already downloaded the show name and description, and it doesn't check again at 9 pm to make sure it's accurate. It has nothing to do with the show starting early or late.

ANGEL 35

11-27-05, 01:54 PM

ON the Sony Style DHG-HDD-250 web site. You get. The requseted product is no longer available. Now what???

davygrvy

11-27-05, 03:28 PM

ON the Sony Style DHG-HDD-250 web site. You get. The requseted product is no longer available. Now what???

Yup. It really stinks for us teckno nerds, but you can get a great "clearance" deal on them from BestBuy. Personally, I was itching to hear about updated firmware to fix some of the bugs it has, but with this "lack of announcement" regarding the product's death, I don't expect to ever have new firmware to enable the USB port, ever..

The requested product is no longer available (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=DHGHDD250)

It's all about DRM, I'm sure.. I won't sell my DHG-HDD250. It still is the best out there. With it's CableCard support, I get my DISC-HD off cable :)

I'm going to look at making myself a DVR from off-the-shelf parts based on linux and go full copyleft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyleft) this time. With all this DRM sh*t going on, I'm revolting. But it won't be perfect and I'll have to giveup the ability to receive encrypted QAM off cable. And to think, playing DVDs on linux is still illegal :mad:

Microsoft Announces CableCARD Support (http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=168488&threshold=1&commentsort=0&tid=109&tid=188&mode=thread&pid=14048728#14050177)

ATCtech

11-27-05, 03:40 PM

Ok, so after countless resets and using a Buffalo zip code the "beast" did grab the Adelphia cable lineup after 24+ hours. It sat that way for 3 days, but only picked up listings for off-air channels, no cable channels at all, just channel names (and logos).

I got brave yesterday afternoon and set it back to my Canadian postal code - after all, it did have the Cogeco line-up for my area until my power problems of last week.

Now, more than 24 hours later, zero info. No off-air, no cable channels, almost like CFTO is not transmitting guide data. Before I start the old master reset cycle on the TV guide or the whole unit again, can anyone using an outdoor antenna confirm guide info is being sent for the Toronto area this weekend?

Thanks,

Bob

pri9908

11-27-05, 04:21 PM

I just had a look, it has not been updated since April. I develop software for a living and familiar with linux, but I would not go down that rathole.

I'd rather the sony box just work and if it works on OTA, I'll be a happy camper.

Is there any practical way to image the HDD250/500 drives to use as a possible backup in case of hardware failure?

philspice1

11-27-05, 05:53 PM

I tried remapping the channel, but neither the TVGOS or the recording screens will let me enter the channel number with a 0. on the front of it. It ignores those keypresses and changes 0.613 to 613, which isn't the real channel number.

Anyone else had this problem?
I have this same issue with Cox cable in Tulsa, OK. The problem is that the TVGOS software just will not accept channel numbers that start 0.xxx So I just use the OTA versions of those channels instead.

MTKSU

11-27-05, 06:22 PM

Hi Folks-

Best Buy has sweetened the deal even a little more: you get a free $25 gift card with purchase of the HDD250 or HDD500 if you order online. :)

After much debate for the past few days, I just decided to make the plunge :confused: and get the HDD250- I'll be picking it up later tonight from Best Buy and will let you know how it all works out. I'm using it exclusively for OTA at this point.

MT :D

mswlogo

11-27-05, 07:00 PM

I just picked up mine at Best Buy today.

So far so good. Waiting impatiently for TV-Guide to load :-)

I have the very first HD-TV the Sony HD34-1.
I'm impressed that it accepted the input in 1080i mode.

I also have a super UHF antenna (8 bow ties) in the attic with a 20dB Amp.

I was hoping I could drop the amp with a the newer generation tuner. But without the Amp it picked up 12 digital stations and with the amp it jumped to 18 OTA stations. So it looks like a good antenna and amp is still a big plus.

P.S. I'm 30 miles west of Boston.

mango halley

11-27-05, 07:05 PM

Since it uses the LINUX OS, hopefully some entreprising software guy can figure out how to to image the drive to make the 250 gigs into 500 gigs, beings that they have the bay in the box.

That would be sweet being able to get 500 gigs out of the system.

mango

mswlogo

11-27-05, 08:17 PM

I'll bet if you just image Drive0 it will probably work.

davygrvy

11-27-05, 08:32 PM

I have this same issue with Cox cable in Tulsa, OK. The problem is that the TVGOS software just will not accept channel numbers that start 0.xxx So I just use the OTA versions of those channels instead.

I had that problem with comcast for the ESPN-HD channel that was found on channel 0.0 sent in the clear (no cablecard then). It's a shame that these bugs haven't been addressed yet with firmware upgrades.

I'm missing a number of OTA stations in the TVGOS listings and it's a shame I can't just force add them in some manner. The cable flavors of them (but only 40% of them exist) won't let me switch them to "air". Though in a perfect world I'd want both and just switch off the cable side.

davygrvy

11-27-05, 08:36 PM

I'll bet if you just image Drive0 it will probably work.

I'd bet money if you partitioned and formatted a new drive in another computer then just plugged it into the HDD250 it would just work. But what filesystem? Someone mentioned XSF in a prior post..

spiff72

11-27-05, 08:44 PM

bierboy

11-27-05, 08:52 PM

I am just waiting for the folks who's warranties have expired to rip into their HDD250. Hopefully that person is familiar with Linux and can try imaging a drive, and looking at adding another hard drive.
You'll have to wait awhile. The warranty goes a year (parts - 90 days labor), and that's not up until May, 2006 (one year after the units first shipped).

PhillyC

11-27-05, 09:13 PM

I'd bet money if you partitioned and formatted a new drive in another computer then just plugged it into the HDD250 it would just work. But what filesystem? Someone mentioned XSF in a prior post..

Maybe you don't need to format a second drive. The LG DVR accepts a larger empty replacement drive and formats it automatically on power up. Hey, it's worth a try on the Sony.

spiff72

11-27-05, 09:36 PM

You'll have to wait awhile. The warranty goes a year (parts - 90 days labor), and that's not up until May, 2006 (one year after the units first shipped).

True, but there are a few brave souls out there that have already opened theirs up (effectively voiding the warranty already)...

jlentz

11-27-05, 09:47 PM

Best Buy has sweetened the deal even a little more: you get a free $25 gift card with purchase of the HDD250 or HDD500 if you order online. :)

I should get mine tomorrow. I ordered before the $25 gift card. I sent an email to BB to see if I can get the card without having to buy another one and return the one I'll get tomorrow. It would be easier if they would.

ellinj

11-27-05, 10:32 PM

jtbell

11-27-05, 10:54 PM

I'm missing a number of OTA stations in the TVGOS listings and it's a shame I can't just force add them in some manner. The cable flavors of them (but only 40% of them exist) won't let me switch them to "air". Though in a perfect world I'd want both and just switch off the cable side.

I don't have cable so when I set up my unit I answered "no" when it asked me if I was using cable. Nevertheless, my TVGOS channel listing has a couple hundred cable channels, all turned off, and marked "Air". :confused:

Just now I assigned HBO to channel 2 (a distant weak station that doesn't show up as an OTA station in my TVGOS, although it does appear in my unit's own channel list) and turned it on. It shows up in my program listing with "No Listing" in all the time slots, which figures, because I didn't have it turned on so the software didn't bother saving the program info. I can select one of those blocks and go to channel 2. I'll leave HBO "turned on" overnight and see if I have any program info tomorrow.

There are some OTA stations that I can receive good signals from, but they don't show up in TVGOS, probably because I'm on a fringe of my TVGOS area and the stations are outside that area. For example, WOLO-DT (25-1), the ABC station in Columbia SC. I took the TVGOS entry for WATE (6), the ABC station in Knoxville TN, and changed the channel number to 25-1. I figure network shows should usually match between the two stations so if I record any of them the names will come out correctly in the recordings list.

The only stations that I can't use that trick on are the extra subchannels of the SC ETV stations: the "SC Channel" and the PBS-HD feed, both of which sometimes have stuff that I'd like to record. I'll write to Gemstar and suggest that they add those two in some form for their users in SC.

Mitch G

11-27-05, 11:17 PM

Thinking of ordering one of these boxes but there is so much material here I don't know if I will ever get through it all. I don't really watch/record premium content. Can someone sumarize the pros/cons of using a cablecard vs. just recording in the clear qam programming?

Thanks

If you aren't bothering with any HD content, then there's no real reason for getting the unit. I think you can get a Tivo with lifetime program guide for less than the DHG. I use mine for OTA HD and analog (clear) cable. I mostly got it for the ability to record HD content - which it does quite well with a great picture. However, I also tune in to my analog cable channels as well. And, I like how the OTA and cable channels are interleaved with one another. The tuner on my TV requires switching between my antenna and cable inputs to get the different channels.

Hope this helps,

Mitch

ellinj

11-28-05, 12:18 AM

If you aren't bothering with any HD content, then there's no real reason for getting the unit. I think you can get a Tivo with lifetime program guide for less than the DHG. I use mine for OTA HD and analog (clear) cable. I mostly got it for the ability to record HD content - which it does quite well with a great picture. However, I also tune in to my analog cable channels as well. And, I like how the OTA and cable channels are interleaved with one another. The tuner on my TV requires switching between my antenna and cable inputs to get the different channels.

Hope this helps,

Mitch

No, I do want to record HD content, I am just not interested in recording anything that is encrypted. NBC/ABC/FOX/CBS are all broadcast in the clear QAM on my cable system.

aholic

11-28-05, 01:01 AM

Hi Folks, thanks all for the great info on this board. I purchased the DHGHDD250 from BB 3 days ago (Boston area) and my guide was filled in nicely after the stated 24 hours of "off time". I'm using it with an HDMI connector and an Hitachi 52HDS42 plasma tv which also has a built-in digital tuner. I have split the cable signal into both the unit and the tv so I can watch other channels while it records. So far my findings are:

1. The tuner is slower than the one in my tv, but not intolerable.
2. The general PQ is grainier than the tuner in my TV, but being able to record HD is worth it (recorded Shrek tonight and it looks great).
3. Digital audio is comparable to the audio directly (optical) from the TV.
4. No problems with scheduled or manual recordings.

My one issue so far is that I have not been able to record the 5.1 digital audio that is broadcast with most HD channels - it always plays back as 2 channel. Has anyone been able to record a 5.1 dolby digital bitstream?

Thanks.

Daniel Tonks

11-28-05, 01:35 AM

Doesn't the hidden service menu (the one with access to the Guide VBI channel test) also have a "Format Hard Drive" option? So, assuming that the unit wouldn't properly format an empty drive automatically upon bootup, chances are that menu option would take care of it.

Regarding the grainy tuner - yes, the analog tuner isn't particularly good on this DVR. It wasn't good on my previous HD tuner either (actually worse than this). However, I do find the picture quality notably better if I have it output 480i and let my TV do the upconversion instead of the DVR.

Also, I should note that SD digital quality (from cable) is as good as any other digital cable box, so if you have cable and your cable company offers a fully digital lineup you won't even need the analog tuner.

Regarding 5.1 output - sounds like you haven't changed the DOLBY DIGITAL AUDIO setting from OFF to AUTO ON (page 40 in the user manual).

Regarding having all cable channels when you pick antenna - the main channel setup list will ALWAYS show ALL channels available in your area. The only thing picking from ANTENNA or CABLE or BOTH does is decide which, by default, will be enabled (and if you have multiple cable lineups available, what the actual mappings will be).

aholic

11-28-05, 01:52 AM

Thanks for the reply. I've noticed the graininess on all channels, not just analog, but I'm willing to live with it since I now have the ability to record HD channels, which still come out superior to [even upscaled] DVDs. My TV doesn't need to scale 480 or 720, and I'm using the "Auto HDMI" format, which I'm guessing is similar to "native" though that isn't an option on my menu, and the graininess is apparant on every resolution I've seen so far (480i, 720p, 1080i).

I have the appropriate dolby digital audio setting to "Auto ON" and I receive the audio correctly when I watch a broadcast, but I only get 2 channel when I watch a recorded program. Any clues?

bierboy

11-28-05, 07:39 AM

As far as your video is concerned, I was using the HDMI to component adaptor, but switched back to components and noticed an improvement. Go figure. You might give that a try.

On another note, Crutchfield has ended its two-week "sale" on these units. They're back up to retail price...interesting considering they've been discontinued by Sony. You'd think they'd want to clear them out.

spiff72

11-28-05, 07:51 AM

Daniel Tonks,

How do you access this "hidden system menu" that you referred to? (I would search, but the board seems to have defaulted back to the white background again - what does it mean when the board is acting like this?) This is different than the one that is in the Guide, right? It might be very interesting for those who are itching to put an additional drive in their unit (and for those who want to be able to recover from a drive failure). It would be sweet if you could just drop a comparable (or identical) drive in the unit and have it format it for you.

jtbell

11-28-05, 08:07 AM

The TGVOS in this unit is significantly different from the one in my Panasonic SD DVR (the DMR-E85H). Not in appearance, which is almost identical, but in the content. The version in the Sony has significantly more channels, including over twice as many OTA channels in my case, and the diagnostic menu (the one you get with the 753159852 keystroke trick) has much more information. The two units even use different host channels for the same ZIP code! My Panasonic uses my nearest FOX station, whereas the Sony uses one of the PBS stations.

mswlogo

11-28-05, 08:19 AM

I have OTA and "Basic Analog Cable" (no STB no CableCard).

But the Analog Cable does have the local HiDef stations on it (over QAM).

When the TV Guide downloaded last night it prompted me for Analog or Digital Cable.

I Chose Analog Cable.

But the TV Guide does not show the HiDef stations on TVGuide.

So I wanted to change the option from Analog Cable to Digital Cable to see what I get. Anyone know how to do that?

Is there a way to manually add the Cable HiDef channels to the current TV Guide line up? Or remap one of the existing analog Dupes to use the QAM channel?

I get all HiDefs OTA except 1, so it's not a huge deal.

mswlogo

11-28-05, 08:23 AM

optivity

11-28-05, 08:51 AM

I have a 36" 4:3 HD CRT-TV that renders 1080i content very well...

too bad I have to squint to see the picture...

I bought a 50" 16:9 PDP which also renders 1080i content extremely well...

I no longer squint when watching HDTV. :)

spiff72

11-28-05, 09:13 AM

mswlogo...

I had the same problem. You can change the cable lineup if you go into the guide, go up to the menu bar, go to setup, and there is a setup choice under the system settings ( I cant remember the specific title) that reads something like "yes it is correct, but some of my channels are missing". That is the one that you want...It CAN be done without strating from scratch.

Sorry this is vague, but I am not in front of it right now.

Sadly, there is no way that I can see to add digital channels that are missing.

mswlogo

11-28-05, 09:20 AM

Thanks spiff72. I know what menu you mean. I'll give it a go.

By the way, it turns out the 1 HD channel off QAM I was looking for was in the listing but was off with no channel number. So I put in the channel number and enabled it. Will have to see if it pulls down programming for it.

bnaegele

11-28-05, 10:54 AM

spiff72

11-28-05, 11:04 AM

Just picked up the HDD250 on Friday. OTA and cable work fine and the TVGuide is working fine as well. (Minneapolis MN area)

I also have had a LG3410A since last February but cannot record any of the basic HD channels, INHD, DiscoverHD, etc, that are only watchable on my set which has a cable card installed.

I wanted to be able to use the cable card funtion of the HDD250 so I could record the HD channels currently accessible via the TV CC.

I called Comcast and was told they only install CC's into TVs and not any other kinds of equipment..

Has anyone here had any experiences with Comcast and installing a CC into the HDD250 or other type of device?

Thanks

That seems like a crock of sh!t, if you ask me. What if you have a TV that has a built in High Def DVR (like some of the Mitsubishi models)? That is a TV, but they would probably never realize that there was a DVR built into the TV.

I would call them back and ask again (see if the answer is different). If they still put up a fight, escalate the call and ask to talk to someone in management. If the device is Digital Cable Ready, and complies with all of the cable standards, they shouldn't have any right to say they are to be installed in TV's only.

One possible problem, though, is the fact that they might eventually install it, and you simply won't be able to record anything from the Premium channels because of the permissions they set up.

optivity

11-28-05, 11:05 AM

I called Comcast and was told they only install CC's into TVs and not any other kinds of equipment..

Has anyone here had any experiences with Comcast and installing a CC into the HDD250 or other type of device?Now we know why Sony has removed this product from their web site. ;)

markrubin

11-28-05, 11:13 AM

Has anyone here had any experiences with Comcast and installing a CC into the HDD250 or other type of device?

Thanks

my Comcast tech knew about the Sony and was interested to see how it worked: getting past the customer service rep is another story: some folks have been charged for a stb because the CSR does not understand

you might tell them it is a TV to get around this when you order

the card worked OK in the Sony, but I was unable to get the guide and I returned the box and the card

bierboy

11-28-05, 11:38 AM

Now we know why Sony has removed this product from their web site. ;)Yeah, I'm sure they removed it because Comcast has idiot CS reps.

dozens

11-28-05, 12:04 PM

optivity

11-28-05, 12:10 PM

aholic

11-28-05, 12:13 PM

I'm using component on a 34" CRT in 1080i mode and the picture looks pretty perfect. What kind of TV do you have?

My TV is a 42" Hitachi plasma connected with HDMI in "HDMI Auto" mode. The picture quality is noticeably grainier vs the cable hooked directly into the tv, but it isn't terrible. I'm more concerned with the apparent inability to record 5.1 digital sound.

Has anyone been able to record 5.1 channels of digital sound?

bnaegele

11-28-05, 12:31 PM

my Comcast tech knew about the Sony and was interested to see how it worked: getting past the customer service rep is another story: some folks have been charged for a stb because the CSR does not understand

you might tell them it is a TV to get around this when you order

the card worked OK in the Sony, but I was unable to get the guide and I returned the box and the card

I also asked how much it would cost to get another cable card. I do not pay a monthly fee for the cable card I currently have in the TV. I was told I would be charged for an additional outlet (5.00 mo?). Unfortunately, I only have 1 TV that is capable of viewing HD. I don't get charged for additional outlets for my other 3 TVs that are connected to the same feed.

I guess they want to discourage any use of personal DVRs. My guess is I would run into the ECS issue where I wouldn't be able to record the channels even if I did get a CC installed.

bierboy

11-28-05, 12:32 PM

...I'm more concerned with the apparent inability to record 5.1 digital sound.

Has anyone been able to record 5.1 channels of digital sound?Yes, with no problem at all. I recorded and played back the Harry Potter movie a week ago Saturday on ABC, and it was flawless -- video and DD5.1 audio.

dmaster

11-28-05, 01:15 PM

I was able to find some info on this after reading almost all off the posts here but nothing definitive.

The manual says to PLAY a recorded program (I have a new HDD250) go to the "Rec List" select the recorded program and hold "play" on the remote for 1 second and voila, NOT! (Page 55 in the manual)
I did see the work around posted here on page 67 and that works but is a pain compared to just hitting "Play". Has anyone been able to get "Play" to work after selecting a recorded program? If not is there a software update that is suppose to fix this? I was somewhat supprized to see that both of the units are no longer on the Sony WEB site, what gives.
...

Thanks, Don

Don:

Someone has probably mentioned this already, but just in case...

Go to the "Rec List".
Select the recorded program.
Press the *Thumb Wheel*, and the program will play.

It seems silly to me that the "Play" button doesn't play the selection,
and I discovered the "Thumb Wheel" solution by simply playing with
the controls. Maybe this is simply a misprint in the manual.

Dan (Woj...)

hednic

11-28-05, 01:19 PM

Just picked up the HDD250 on Friday. OTA and cable work fine and the TVGuide is working fine as well. (Minneapolis MN area)

I also have had a LG3410A since last February but cannot record any of the basic HD channels, INHD, DiscoverHD, etc, that are only watchable on my set which has a cable card installed.

I wanted to be able to use the cable card funtion of the HDD250 so I could record the HD channels currently accessible via the TV CC.

I called Comcast and was told they only install CC's into TVs and not any other kinds of equipment..

Has anyone here had any experiences with Comcast and installing a CC into the HDD250 or other type of device?

Thanks

I live in Northern Virginia and I have Cox as my cable provider. Initially I got the same story from them. They said that they only support caclecards for TVs. Back in July when I got my DHG HDD500, no customer service rep in my area even knew that there was such a thing as a tuner with a cable card slot! So I just called and said I wanted another cablecard installed. (I had already had one installed in my Sony XBR960 TV) so like you I could watch one program decrypted through cablecard while recording a different program decrypted with the cablecard in the tuner. The tech came over, I showed him where I wanted the second card installed and that was that. I have had no problems with my provider since that. Only management at Cox and not all management people by the way, seem to know that there are devices other than TVs that take cablecard, and they are required to support any DCR device, not just TVs. I have had no problem recording anything decrypted through the cablecard. Just tell the tech that you want another cablecard installed, but don't mention the equipment.

dmaster

11-28-05, 01:21 PM

dozens

11-28-05, 01:37 PM

dozens

11-28-05, 01:50 PM

Yup, same setup. Motorola v4.05, comcast. Yeah, switching channels then back then doing manual record did fix it. I haven't done any timed recordings on that channel lately, but CCI is 0x00. So something was a bit odd, a stange software bug or something. Those timed recordings did start at 1am, so I was assuming it was interupting the TVGOS downloads. Probably a bad assumption..

Does anyone using a motorola cablecard have a firmware version higher then 4.05 ? I know there are newer version available.

jeffcmcc

11-28-05, 02:00 PM

Just got off the phone with Sony tech support and spoke to someone who was able to reproduce my problem ! He used cablecard, comcast headend and he was was not able to record HBO successfully ALL the time. He said he tried two recording and one failed to record. The tech was the 3rd person I spoke with during the call and he is now checking with someone higher up and suppose to give me a callback.

Let us know what you find out. I too have this problem (also cablecard & comcast). I can't schedule two HBOHD recordings back-to-back. The second always fails. I've found a work-around, eg. schedule HBOHD, something else, HBOHD. For some reason either the cablecard or the sony needs a channel change in between. Do you have this problem with any other HD channels? I haven't checked SHOHD, STZHD and MAXHD yet to see if the same pattern applies. Thanks.

Ray1938

11-28-05, 02:33 PM

my Comcast tech knew about the Sony and was interested to see how it worked: getting past the customer service rep is another story: some folks have been charged for a stb because the CSR does not understand

you might tell them it is a TV to get around this when you order

the card worked OK in the Sony, but I was unable to get the guide and I returned the box and the card

Comcast, in Los Angeles, said their tech must install the card - for $29 so I decided not to get it because I mostly record network shows.

I assume by box and guide, you are referring to the Sony recorder, and cable guide menu. A Comcast tech told me about not getting their guide but why is that a problem since the TV guide grid includes all the cable channels.

jeffcmcc

11-28-05, 02:44 PM

It seems silly to me that the "Play" button doesn't play the selection,
and I discovered the "Thumb Wheel" solution by simply playing with
the controls. Maybe this is simply a misprint in the manual.

It is (a misprint in the manual). There is a "Rev2" version of the manual on the Sony website (I'm new and can't post links). That issue is corrected on p. 55 -- says what we found out anyway -- press the thumb-wheel (select). I didn't compare the two manuals side-by-side but other than that they seem about the same except for the addition of a couple of paragraphs in the "Troubleshooting" section.

markrubin

11-28-05, 02:45 PM

RAY1938

yes sorry for the confusion:

I returned the Sony DHG-HDD500 because I could never get the TV guide to download:

I have 4 Sharp LCD displays with Cablecards and have been suffering through issues with them: but they have been working OK for several months now

the Cablecard in the Sony was the fifth card: it worked right off the bat (Comcast also requires a tech visit and a similar charge to install it)

I have been following this thread and I am not surprised Sony appears to be discontinuing the DHG: it is based on two systems (cable cards and TV Guide) that are not yet mature technologies in my opinion

I think Cable cards give better PQ but they really need to deploy the next generation 2 way card

Comcast gave me a S/A 8300 DVR and I am pleased with it :)

bnaegele

11-28-05, 04:10 PM

markrubin

11-28-05, 04:18 PM

MarkRubin

Do you have to pay a monthly "outlet" fee for the extra cable cards? Or do you have a monthly CC rental fee?

Before I call Comcast back I would like to know where I may be getting taken for charges.

Thanks

Cable Cards are free: no additional monthly fee, from my Comcast in NJ after the initial install fee

However each cableco seems to have its own pricing policy for the cards and don't be surprised if the CSR gives you incorrect info re charges for cards

you still have to pay for the programming packages

kbgl

11-28-05, 04:30 PM

Yes, with no problem at all. I recorded and played back the Harry Potter movie a week ago Saturday on ABC, and it was flawless -- video and DD5.1 audio.

Shrek recorded yesterday in 5.1 with no problem.

kbgl

11-28-05, 04:35 PM

Jim:

As far as I know, the cable input cannot be used for antenna input.
However...
I have a UHF and a VHF antenna. I combine the two signals using
an antenna pre-amp that is specifically designed to allow this. Mine
is a Channel Master 7777(?). One input can be used for a combined
UHF/VHF, or a selector switch enables the second input. I presume
there are a couple of bandpass filters that get cut in when the dual
input mode is selected.

Dan (Woj...)

I am in the Raleigh area and use a UHF antena. The guide loaded. This antena will still pull in ch 5 and ch 11 pretty well. Do you know what channel the downloads come from?

bierboy

11-28-05, 04:39 PM

I am in the Raleigh area and use a UHF antena. The guide loaded. This antena will still pull in ch 5 and ch 11 pretty well. Do you know what channel the downloads come from?Usually your local PBS station.

spiff72

11-28-05, 04:42 PM

My TV is a 42" Hitachi plasma connected with HDMI in "HDMI Auto" mode. The picture quality is noticeably grainier vs the cable hooked directly into the tv, but it isn't terrible. I'm more concerned with the apparent inability to record 5.1 digital sound.

Has anyone been able to record 5.1 channels of digital sound?

aholic,

As someone mentioned earlier, the DD5.1 is probably being recorded, but you need to go to the unit's menu, then preferences, then audio, then Dolby Digital, then turn on "Auto On" or something like that. This is OFF by default. I had the same thing - I would watch or record something, and then only got PCM audio output into my AV receiver. When I set it to "auto", it worked correctly. This should work, even on content that is already recorded, I think. It just tells the Sony what to output (not what to record), so if it was in the datastream when the recording was made, it should be present in a recording regardless of the setting at record time.

kbgl

11-28-05, 04:55 PM

Someone said they had trouble getting recordings to play.

I tried for hours before I was able to play a recording. After you record a show, you can pick the way the shows are listed. While on the recordings list page, press menu. On the left side of the page some options appear that can be changed. If group is highlighted, change it to list.
I could not play anything until I set the control to list. No button on the remote would make a recording play. After changing the setting to list, the select button will play the recordings.

The play button will not start playing the movie.

If you stop or pause the movie, then pressing the play button will resume play.

PhillyC

11-28-05, 05:18 PM

Has anyone here had any experiences with Comcast and installing a CC into the HDD250 or other type of device?

Thanks

I have Comcast Chicago and the HDD500 with a working CableCARD. It took three months to get it working. During the process, my local tech supervisor coincidentally received an e-mail from a Comcast engineer that specifically stated the Sony DVR's are "supported devices".

bommai

11-28-05, 06:07 PM

philspice1

11-28-05, 06:13 PM

I just bought this product one week ago from Best Buy with a 2 year same as cash financing for $499. It was listed in Sony's site one week ago. It is not listed anymore. Any reason why it is already discontinued? I thought this is a pretty new product.

Are they working on something new? I wish the device used internet lookup using an ethernet port instead of the stupid tvguide interface.
According to the December issue of "Sound and Vision," TV Guide will release a new version of TVGOS next year. Perhaps Sony will offer a new model that uses the new TVGOS.

The article also states that older TVGOS devices are not upgradeable to the new TVGOS software.

bierboy

11-28-05, 06:44 PM

According to the December issue of "Sound and Vision," TV Guide will release a new version of TVGOS next year. Perhaps Sony will offer a new model that uses the new TVGOS.

The article also states that older TVGOS devices are not upgradeable to the new TVGOS software.If that, indeed, is the case, my HDD500's going back to Crutchfield. Ain't no way I'm paying $700 for something that will be obsolete within a year. I was on the fence about this unit (love the performance and features, but HATE TVGOS), and this is the straw that breaks the camel's back for me. I'll either get the TiVo Dual Tuner SA HD unit, or whatever Sony upgrades to. Tis a shame - I really WANT to like this unit. :mad: :mad: :mad:

hednic

11-28-05, 07:21 PM

MarkRubin

Do you have to pay a monthly "outlet" fee for the extra cable cards? Or do you have a monthly CC rental fee?

Before I call Comcast back I would like to know where I may be getting taken for charges.

Thanks

I have both cablecards using the same cable outlet. I have a splitter with one cable going into my tv that has a cablecard and the other wire going into my Sony DHG HDD500 with cablecard. My provider charges me for two digital outlets even though
I only have one tv. I pay 2 X $1.99 a month to rent the cablecards in addition to the outlet fees so if Comcast gives you your cable cards for free in your area, I think that's a good deal.

aholic

11-28-05, 09:20 PM

As someone mentioned earlier, the DD5.1 is probably being recorded, but you need to go to the unit's menu, then preferences, then audio, then Dolby Digital, then turn on "Auto On" or something like that. This is OFF by default. I had the same thing - I would watch or record something, and then only got PCM audio output into my AV receiver. When I set it to "auto", it worked correctly. This should work, even on content that is already recorded, I think. It just tells the Sony what to output (not what to record), so if it was in the datastream when the recording was made, it should be present in a recording regardless of the setting at record time.

I found that the source of my problem was a cheap splitter. Through it, I only ever get 2 channel dolby digital on both my tv and the dvr. I replaced it with a 2GHz video splitter and all is well. Thanks to all for the help.

jlentz

11-28-05, 09:28 PM

According to the December issue of "Sound and Vision," TV Guide will release a new version of TVGOS next year. Perhaps Sony will offer a new model that uses the new TVGOS.

The article also states that older TVGOS devices are not upgradeable to the new TVGOS software.

Does this mean that the current DHGs will quit working, or will they just not be improved. If they do quit working, it seems that with the BB extended warranty you should either get a more current model or the cash price, since it couldn't be fixed.

Does that make sense?

bierboy

11-28-05, 09:39 PM

Does this mean that the current DHGs will quit working, or will they just not be improved. If they do quit working, it seems that with the BB extended warranty you should either get a more current model or the cash price, since it couldn't be fixed.

Does that make sense?I spent an hour on the phone (most of it on hold) with Sony customer support asking those very questions. They took down all the information, including which magazine reported this and the location of this forum and promised me they would e-mail me with any information they are able to scrounge up. We'll see...

philspice1

11-28-05, 10:01 PM

Does this mean that the current DHGs will quit working, or will they just not be improved. If they do quit working, it seems that with the BB extended warranty you should either get a more current model or the cash price, since it couldn't be fixed.

Does that make sense?
As I understand it, the data sent out by TVGOS (via OTA TV broadcast) will remain compatible with previous products. The new units would just be more intelligent in the way they use that data. Some issues such as the way the channels are sorted will be addressed in the new units.

Of course, this is partly speculation on my part. Read the article in "Sound and Vision" and decide for yourself.

mswlogo

11-28-05, 10:55 PM

Just reporting in for folks sitting on the fence.

Picked up Sunday and everything is workingas advertised.

I'm using Basic Cable + OTA.

It picked up everything.

TV Guide updated completely over night.

I have it hooked via Component to 34" 16:9 CRT (Pio 5060 due wednesday).

Recorded Movie Sunday night interactively.
Sceduled a recording Monday afternoon.

Both played without a hitch.

Dolby 5.1 working fine.

Unit is very quiet.

Showed it to my inlaws and they want one bad.

If Tivo had an equivelent unit I would have considered them. But they don't and I don't wish to wait any longer.

jtbell

11-28-05, 11:49 PM

As I understand it, the data sent out by TVGOS (via OTA TV broadcast) will remain compatible with previous products. The new units would just be more intelligent in the way they use that data.

Or TVGOS might start broadcasting separate data sets for the new software, while continuing to broadcast data for the old software. They're actually doing this already, at least in my area. The software in my Panasonic SD DVR (a DMR-E85H) is older and somewhat different from the software in my Sony. The two units use different host channels, even when set to the same ZIP code. And the data sets are different: the new software shows many more OTA channels than the old software, covering a larger geographical area. The old software basically shows OTA channels from Greenville SC and Charlotte NC, whereas the new software appears to add most of the channels from Atlanta GA, Knoxville TN, and the tri-cities TN/VA area.

I expect that TVGOS will continue to send out data for older software until analog TV shuts down in 2008. After that, the fate of current TVGOS units will probably depend on whether the hardware manufacturers and/or TVGOS choose to update the software to work with whatever digital-transmission method TVGOS decides to convert to. My Panasonic DVR will become useless for OTA recording anyway because it's NTSC only, but I can at least still use it for recording SD via the S-video input, and burning it to DVD. My Sony will still work as an external digital tuner for my TV, and for attended manual recording, but doing any kind of programmed recording will be difficult since there's no way to set the clock manually.

Maybe Sony will offer a TVGOS upgrade so these units can stay functional for OTA recording, but I'm not counting on it. With a decent standalone HD receiver costing about $200, I figure I've paid $300 for the ability to record HD for about two years and five months. That's about $10 per month.

jtbell

11-29-05, 12:01 AM

I just noticed an interesting TVGOS scheduling glitch. I had set it up to record a program that runs from 12 midnight to 12:30am, by hitting the RECORD button while the program was highlighted in the listings. Then I went into the menu and set it to record regularly, and start one minute early to make sure I get the whole thing. I went in to take a look just now and noticed that it had actually recorded from 10:59 to 11:30, and the program that started at 11:00 was now marked with the red dot and the R instead of the program that I actually wanted!

I re-scheduled the recording for midnight, again starting one minute early, and this time I saw the red dot disappear from my desired program and re-appear on the 11:00 program. So something about crossing over midnight confuses TVGOS. Maybe we can call it the "Cinderella effect." :cool:

I scheduled the recording again, leaving it to start "on time", and this time it seemed to stick. I'll know for sure right about now... [going to the living room to check...] yep, it's started now.

optivity

11-29-05, 06:49 AM

mswlogo

11-29-05, 09:12 AM

Good news... you bought an HD-DVR to record SD content. :confused: Hopefully this meets your long-term needs, because the Broadcast Flag & CP Authorization "schemes" are going to render it's HD recording capabilities useless anyway. ;)

What are you talking about? I get all local HD channels OTA (18 digital stations about 6-7 do HD during prime time or special events) and I get most them over QAM over my basic cable. So they back up each other. Each has a couple of stations the other does not.

There is plenty of HD Material.

spiff72

11-29-05, 09:20 AM

Good news... you bought an HD-DVR to record SD content. :confused: Hopefully this meets your long-term needs, because the Broadcast Flag & CP Authorization "schemes" are going to render it's HD recording capabilities useless anyway. ;)

Why do you say he is using an HD-DVR to record SD? Because of his TV? Surely it isn't the OTA + basic cable comment - that is what I am using, too! :D

mswlogo

11-29-05, 09:35 AM

FYI, the TV, as old as it is, gives quite a few of today sets a run for their money. I would have kept it for a another 2 years and waited for 1080p Plasma but the 4Ft 180Lb center speaker needs a little more space now. So I'm replacing it with a 50" Pioneer Plasma tomorrow.

optivity

11-29-05, 10:02 AM

What are you talking about? I get all local HD channels OTA (18 digital stations about 6-7 do HD during prime time or special events) and I get most them over QAM over my basic cable. So they back up each other. Each has a couple of stations the other does not.

There is plenty of HD Material.But you won't if the MPAA has its way with Congress and implements a ”Broadcast Flag” (http://news.com.com/Politicos+wary+of+changes+to+copyright+law/2100-1030_3-5956328.html). Your ability to record OTA digital transmissions without authorization may be about to end. The question is will Congress act to protect the consumers right to the "Fair Use" (http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html) of any copyright digital content we subscribe to?

mswlogo

11-29-05, 10:14 AM

I'll deal with that when that day comes.

Meanwhile let's return back to our regularly scheduled program...

bierboy

11-29-05, 10:16 AM

The only way to keep him from beating his dead horse is to quit responding.

optivity

11-29-05, 10:24 AM

I'll deal with that when that day comes.

Meanwhile let's return back to our regularly scheduled program...Well "that day" is already here for people using a CableCARD. Your turn is next. Maybe you're not worried about it, but I hate to see people being "duped" into buying one of these things and then it doesn't work as advertised.

markrubin

11-29-05, 10:59 AM

we need to put this issue into perspective: this is how I understand it:

Broadcast flags (BF): as of NOW, there is no issue with BF because none are being used: you should be aware of the impact of this issue and how it can affect you in the future; including improperly set flags

Conditional Access (CA) these are the 'Copy once, copy never' etc settings that we see from the cableco: as Optivity points out, these can prevent recording of certain channels and can also disable digital audio as part of the copy protection schemes mandated by law: we have seen several examples of improperly set CA particularly with Cable cards resulting in the inability to record on the Sony HDG box and the shutoff of digital audio from several displays

Some cablecos have made good faith efforts to correct the CA settings; some do not understand or simply don't care

You do need to be aware of this issue but I think it is something that can be resolved: Copy Protection in one form or another is a fact we have to deal with: let's discuss it calmly and keep it on a technical level:and don't shoot the messenger please :)

PhillyC

11-29-05, 11:17 AM

spiff72

11-29-05, 11:31 AM

Here's more strange scheduling behavior: The last three episodes of Lost and Invasion appeared as they should have as weekly recordings in the schedule. But there was no red dot in the guide listings for these programs. If I clicked record on the listing, I got the message about a schedule conflict. If I followed through and replaced the old with the new, the same thing happened, i.e. the red dot disappeared from the listing but the program remained in the schedule. Fortunately, the programs did record properly. But this makes me uncomfortable.

Does anyone know what the green box and red checkmark mean on the bar of the recorded program? They do not appear on my last three recordings of Lost and Invasion.

Could those shows have overlapped because of a strange start time? Lost seems to frequently run until :01 or :02 after the hour. I have been getting ready to schedule Lost as a weekly (or regular) recording, but for some reason, that show in my guide has no title this week (but the analog channel for ABC shows it). I am hoping that this was corrected after last nights guide downloads (or tonights download).

And are you talking about marks on these shows in the Recorded Shows list, or in the guide itself?

Mitch G

11-29-05, 11:55 AM

I believe the checkmark icon thing indicates it is a recording that will only be deleted if you delete it - as opposed to recordings that will be deleted when needed (due to disk space usage).

Mitch

optivity

11-29-05, 11:59 AM

jeffcmcc

11-29-05, 12:02 PM

Conditional Access (CA) these are the 'Copy once, copy never' etc settings that we see from the cableco: as Optivity points out, these can prevent recording of certain channels and can also disable digital audio as part of the copy protection schemes mandated by law: we have seen several examples of improperly set CA particularly with Cable cards resulting in the inability to record on the Sony HDG box and the shutoff of digital audio from several displays Some cablecos have made good faith efforts to correct the CA settings; some do not understand or simply don't care)

Hi Mark,

In keeping with the spirit of keeping the discussion on a technical level, here is the scoop as near as I can determine:

Per the FCC "Second Report and Order" adopted Sept. 10, 2003, the "copy never" flag may only be applied to PPV, VOD and SVOD, no restrictions may be applied to unencrypted broadcast television, and the "copy once" flag is the most stringent restriction allowed for everything else. These rules are codified at Section 76.1902 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations). Also, there is some general confusion over the "copy once" flag which actually means "copy one generation" (they can restrict copies of copies, but not the first generation copy).

Thus, I agree with you that there have been examples of cableco error/mistakes, however, they cannot afford to fail to correct the situation when brought to their attention, much less not to care. The FCC can be nasty, nasty.

The Home Recording Rights Coalition (www.hrrc.org) is an excellent resource for information on this and other (eg, broadcast flag) issues we have been discussing.

Jeff

PhillyC

11-29-05, 12:09 PM

Could those shows have overlapped because of a strange start time? Lost seems to frequently run until :01 or :02 after the hour.

I'm sure that at least two of these eps were normal 60 minute programs (only according to the guide listing, which is what counts). I do not see this behavior on Sunday night with Desperate Housewives and Grey's Anatomy, which are on the same channel (and the former always runs over).

dozens

11-29-05, 12:09 PM

PhillyC

11-29-05, 12:17 PM

I believe the checkmark icon thing indicates it is a recording that will only be deleted if you delete it - as opposed to recordings that will be deleted when needed (due to disk space usage).

Mitch

Thanks, I'll look at that tonight. But this would still fall under the heading of "strange behavior", since I have changed the default setting to never automatically delete a program.

optivity

11-29-05, 12:19 PM

Hi Mark,

In keeping with the spirit of keeping the discussion on a technical level, here is the scoop as near as I can determine:

Per the FCC "Second Report and Order" adopted Sept. 10, 2003, the "copy never" flag may only be applied to PPV, VOD and SVOD, no restrictions may be applied to unencrypted broadcast television, and the "copy once" flag is the most stringent restriction allowed for everything else. These rules are codified at Section 76.1902 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations). Also, there is some general confusion over the "copy once" flag which actually means "copy one generation" (they can restrict copies of copies, but not the first generation copy).

Thus, I agree with you that there have been examples of cableco error/mistakes, however, they cannot afford to fail to correct the situation when brought to their attention, much less not to care. The FCC can be nasty, nasty.

The Home Recording Rights Coalition (www.hrrc.org) is an excellent resource for information on this and other (eg, broadcast flag) issues we have been discussing.

JeffSo is it a violation of the FCC rules regarding fair use when my CATV provider prevents my ATSC/QAM tuner from receiving the HD local channels that broadcast OTA in my market, for which Time Warner carries open on their analog but encrypted for their digital tier?

jeffcmcc

11-29-05, 12:20 PM

If the MSOs are sending non-OTA channels as 0x02 (Copy Once) then they are following the rules. I think inability to record is either Sony's or the cablecard manufacturer.

Still waiting for my callback from Sony regarding my failed recordings...
I totally agree (although I've never seen anything other than 0x00 "copy freely" from Comcast Denver). Have you seen any 0x02 on your Conditional Access screen? That would be following the rules, I'm just curious why whatever they do isn't system wide. I agree that in our case (Motorola v4.05/Comcast) that the problem lies in the card, the Sony or some interaction between them.

PhillyC

11-29-05, 12:27 PM

jeffcmcc

11-29-05, 12:54 PM

Yes. Force them to follow the rules. File a complaint with the FCC. Find a way to reach a high-level person at your cableco.
I don't know Phil -- seems to me its a whole different issue: encrypting broadcast television vs. conditional access (the issue we've been discussing). The former I think would be covered under the "must carry" rules. You may well be right but as I read the digital must carry rules (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/digital.html) it seems to me that the issue is far from settled.

Ed2005

11-29-05, 01:05 PM

Does the Sony HDD250/500 do any upscaling of basic channels at 480i?

mswlogo

11-29-05, 01:11 PM

So is it a violation of the FCC rules regarding fair use when my CATV provider prevents my ATSC/QAM tuner from receiving the HD local channels that broadcast OTA in my market, for which Time Warner carries open on their analog but encrypted for their digital tier?

I think this topic belongs in another thread. And I think you did sarcastically hijack this thread. We are all aware of the situation and willing to risk it. I think that's why this box is attractive because it's fairly cheap. It's also running Linux which might possibly be hacked and a lot of us got the BB warranty so we can complain in the future if we get locked out (that might not go any where but it's worth a try if it happens).

Please start another thread, many of us are interested in the topic but not here.

Mitch G

11-29-05, 01:30 PM

Thanks, I'll look at that tonight. But this would still fall under the heading of "strange behavior", since I have changed the default setting to never automatically delete a program.

Then that's correct behavor, actually. The checkmark thing means to never automatically delete a program. You need to explicitly delete it.

Mitch

Mitch G

11-29-05, 01:33 PM

Does the Sony HDD250/500 do any upscaling of basic channels at 480i?

Yes. The unit can output in a few formats including 720p, 1080i.
(If that answers your question.)
For example, I have my HDD250 connected to my 720p HDTV using component cables and have the HDD250 set up to always output as 720p.

Mitch

optivity

11-29-05, 03:42 PM

I totally agree (although I've never seen anything other than 0x00 "copy freely" from Comcast Denver). Have you seen any 0x02 on your Conditional Access screen? That would be following the rules, I'm just curious why whatever they do isn't system wide. I agree that in our case (Motorola v4.05/Comcast) that the problem lies in the card, the Sony or some interaction between them.Whenever the optical interface of my TV is disabled the CCI value is set to 0x02 and there is an ECM (entitlement control message) detected. Whenever the optical interface is enabled the CCI value is either 0x00 or 0x02 with no ECMs detected. The CP authorization information my TV provides does not give enough information to determine how ECM detection affects the TV's optical interface.

My presumption is for subscribers on my CATV network who own a DHG-HDD250/500 the CCI/ECM values will determine their ability to record HD content in the same manner.

dozens

11-29-05, 03:54 PM

Whenever the optical interface of my TV is disabled the CCI value is set to 0x02 and there is an ECM (entitlement control message) detected. Whenever the optical interface is enabled the CCI value is either 0x00 or 0x02 with no ECMs detected. The CP authorization information my TV provides does not give enough information to determine how ECM detection affects the TV's optical interface.

My presumption is for subscribers on my CATV network who own a DHG-HDD250/500 the CCI/ECM values will determine their ability to record HD content in the same manner.

Sounds like a HDCP issue. If you tv doesn't support HDCP then the Sony box is probably not allowing you to make recordings over a digital interface.

jlentz

11-29-05, 04:34 PM

mswlogo

11-29-05, 04:44 PM

The radio shack antenna's are not that bad. I once compared the best RadioShack yagi, the WineGard (8 Bow Ties) and the ChannelMaster (8 Bow Ties). There was not that much difference. But the WineGard was the best made so I kept that one.

If you are having problems a WineGard or ChannelMaster AMP can help a LOT. I went from 12 stations to 18 when I flipped on the Amp.

I'm not sure about signal strength yet, every device has it's own "scale".

spiff72

11-29-05, 04:47 PM

I just got my DHG today and after it scanned for channels, I checked out the signal strength on several of them. One is showing a strength that switches between 66% and 72%. It isn't showing any picture quality issues, but I was wondering if there is a general guideline for how low it can go before problems develop. I imagine it might fluctuate in the future due to weather or tree foliage. I'm currently using a Radio Shack (model 75 I think) combo UHF-VHF antenna. I got a Channel Master 4228 antenna, thinking that my existing antenna wouldn't be sensitive enough to pull in the stations. Now I'm wondering if I should return the Channel Master or put it up to see if my strengths get higher. I'm not sure what kind of headroom 66% or 72% gives me. All I have to go by is the signal strength indicator. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Make a note of the Signal quality (shown just under the signal strength bar). If there is interference on the channel (maybe multipath too?), this will say something like "Below normal" rather than "Good". Also look at the diagnastics screen, and see what your SNR is for the digital channels (signal to noise ratio) - this (I assume) is what this signal quality is based on.

On a low VHF channel (digital 2), I can have a strong (85%) signal, but the quality is "below normal" because of electrical interference on the channel. I will often check analog channel 3 to diagnose what kind of degradation I am getting. Usually it an irriating "whine" in the audio, accompanied by a tight wavy pattern in the picture.

mango halley

11-29-05, 04:59 PM

Or TVGOS might start broadcasting separate data sets for the new software, while continuing to broadcast data for the old software. They're actually doing this already, at least in my area. The software in my Panasonic SD DVR (a DMR-E85H) is older and somewhat different from the software in my Sony. The two units use different host channels, even when set to the same ZIP code. And the data sets are different: the new software shows many more OTA channels than the old software, covering a larger geographical area. The old software basically shows OTA channels from Greenville SC and Charlotte NC, whereas the new software appears to add most of the channels from Atlanta GA, Knoxville TN, and the tri-cities TN/VA area.

I expect that TVGOS will continue to send out data for older software until analog TV shuts down in 2008. After that, the fate of current TVGOS units will probably depend on whether the hardware manufacturers and/or TVGOS choose to update the software to work with whatever digital-transmission method TVGOS decides to convert to. My Panasonic DVR will become useless for OTA recording anyway because it's NTSC only, but I can at least still use it for recording SD via the S-video input, and burning it to DVD. My Sony will still work as an external digital tuner for my TV, and for attended manual recording, but doing any kind of programmed recording will be difficult since there's no way to set the clock manually.

Maybe Sony will offer a TVGOS upgrade so these units can stay functional for OTA recording, but I'm not counting on it. With a decent standalone HD receiver costing about $200, I figure I've paid $300 for the ability to record HD for about two years and five months. That's about $10 per month.

My goodness, sooooo many assumptions....they might start broadcasting, they might abandon.....

here is my two cents, tvgos will continue to backwardly support all products out there.

And the sony dvr recorder will continue to operate with tvgos for 10 years.

I cant beleive all the doom and gloom post on recording will or won't it....will congress let us record...*I'm betting they will*...will tvgos work with the new roll out...I'm betting it will and not abandon 2 or 4 million tvs out there already.

Mango

jeffcmcc

11-29-05, 06:05 PM

I cant beleive all the doom and gloom post on recording will or won't it....will congress let us record...*I'm betting they will*
I hope you're right Mango as the issue concerns all of us. The Digital Media Consumers' Rights Act of 2005 (HR1201) currently before Congress would do just that (allow us to continue to record) by codifying the Supreme Court "Betamax" rules. But it is facing tough sledding in Congress (do a google news search on hr 1201). There are powerful forces arrayed against the concept of copying digital media, period. I still cannot understand why Sony would yank an essentially new product off the market just before the holiday consumer electronics buying frenzy. In the meantime all we have is an FCC Rule and Order that can be changed any time. I'm not worried about it, just keeping an eye on it.

optivity

11-29-05, 06:11 PM

I hope you're right Mango as the issue concerns all of us. The Digital Media Consumers' Rights Act of 2005 (HR1201) currently before Congress would do just that (allow us to continue to record) by codifying the Supreme Court "Betamax" rules. But it is facing tough sledding in Congress (do a google news search on hr 1201). There are powerful forces arrayed against the concept of copying digital media, period. I still cannot understand why Sony would yank an essentially new product off the market just before the holiday consumer electronics buying frenzy. In the meantime all we have is an FCC Rule and Order that can be changed any time. I'm not worried about it, just keeping an eye on it.Because Sony built it with a CableCARD slot and advertised it as a digital cable ready product; but if you hook it up to most CATV providers networks neither the DVR time shift HD record function or TVGOS EPG feature will work correctly. Even Sony had to raise the white flag for this product.

bierboy

11-29-05, 06:27 PM

I think this topic belongs in another thread. And I think you did sarcastically hijack this thread. We are all aware of the situation and willing to risk it. I think that's why this box is attractive because it's fairly cheap. It's also running Linux which might possibly be hacked and a lot of us got the BB warranty so we can complain in the future if we get locked out (that might not go any where but it's worth a try if it happens).

Please start another thread, many of us are interested in the topic but not here. EXACTLY my point....this thread has become a dumping ground for some folks who love to play Chicken Little. Let's get back on topic.

optivity

11-29-05, 07:06 PM

OK, moderator please rename this to the:

"Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official mswlogo/bierboy Thread"

where only those who are willing to discuss what mswlogo & bierboy are interested in can post. :p

RichB

11-29-05, 07:22 PM

OK, moderator please rename this to the:

"Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official mswlogo/bierboy Thread"

where only those who are willing to discuss what mswlogo & bierboy are interested in can post. :p

I think it is fair to keep the posts to the topic of the thread. That does not mean you cannot post, it would be nice if the thread stays on topic.

BTW, I do not think that you know why Sony dropped the product. We do not know if there will be a successor. This product has some serious deficiencies and has trouble competing with the rent models from the cable provider. The state of the art in HD PVRs now is dual tuner with a well-ordered guide. The current product falls short. Hopefully, they will have a successor and we will also see a HD-TiVo in 2006.

-- Rich

markrubin

11-29-05, 07:24 PM

I think it is fair to keep the posts to the topic of the thread. That does not mean you cannot post, it would be nice if the thread stays on topic.

Thank you :)

Ed2005

11-29-05, 07:45 PM

Yes. The unit can output in a few formats including 720p, 1080i.
(If that answers your question.)
For example, I have my HDD250 connected to my 720p HDTV using component cables and have the HDD250 set up to always output as 720p.

Mitch

Thanks for the quick reply.

kookmyers

11-29-05, 07:45 PM

hi all. has anyone out there opened their 500? i have a 250 and would like to add a second drive. i wonder if it is as simple as adding the drive and setting the jumpers to master/slave. (perhaps thats the ONLY way it would work...i dont know)
but as Mark said, the supply is there, the bracket is there.....we just need an IDE cable and the knowledge of if the drive will be recognized by the firmware....
sure would be nice.

optivity

11-29-05, 08:22 PM

I think it is fair to keep the posts to the topic of the thread. That does not mean you cannot post, it would be nice if the thread stays on topic.

BTW, I do not think that you know why Sony dropped the product. We do not know if there will be a successor. This product has some serious deficiencies and has trouble competing with the rent models from the cable provider. The state of the art in HD PVRs now is dual tuner with a well-ordered guide. The current product falls short. Hopefully, they will have a successor and we will also see a HD-TiVo in 2006.

-- RichAll true... and if I had a dime for every thread on the AVSF that went off topic... I'd "blow them all" on one of these Sony DVR’s.

If you don’t like what I have to say… just ignore it… I don’t know what the BFD is about a couple of posts pertaining to CP & DVR’s?

RichB

11-29-05, 08:26 PM

If you don’t like what I have to say… just ignore it… I don’t know what the BFD is about a couple of posts pertaining to CP & DVR’s?

This is clearly your thinking towards the AVS moderator. Clearly you are ignoring him as well.

-- Rich

jlentz

11-29-05, 08:53 PM

Make a note of the Signal quality (shown just under the signal strength bar). If there is interference on the channel (maybe multipath too?), this will say something like "Below normal" rather than "Good". Also look at the diagnastics screen, and see what your SNR is for the digital channels (signal to noise ratio) - this (I assume) is what this signal quality is based on.

Thanks. That's a good idea. My signal quality is listed as Below Normal. I think I'll try swapping the Channel Master in and seeing what strength and quality I get. I think that the Channel Master is more directional, so it might help the signal quality issue.

PhillyC

11-29-05, 09:40 PM

Then that's correct behavor, actually. The checkmark thing means to never automatically delete a program. You need to explicitly delete it.

Mitch

You are correct that the checkmark means "save until I delete". I set this as the default for ALL recordings. But Lost and Invasion do not have the checkmark for the last two weeks (while all other recordings do). This is what is strange.

Just another TVGOS mystery, I guess.

PhillyC

11-29-05, 09:50 PM

but if you hook it up to most CATV providers networks neither the DVR time shift HD record function or TVGOS EPG feature will work correctly.

"Most"? On what do you base this conclusion?!?

ellinj

11-29-05, 10:24 PM

ellinj

11-29-05, 10:30 PM

One more thing, is there some way to change the default order of channels to be numerical order instead of the bizare order that they seem to have come in by default?

bierboy

11-29-05, 10:31 PM

"Most"? On what do you base this conclusion?!?Ignore him -- I do.

optivity

11-29-05, 10:31 PM

This is clearly your thinking towards the AVS moderator. Clearly you are ignoring him as well.

-- RichThe Moderator of this Forum is free to delete or move a post any time he/she sees fit... perhaps you should apply for the job.

optivity

11-29-05, 10:38 PM

"Most"? On what do you base this conclusion?!?My opinion is based on the number of posts I have read regarding this subject. Just because your CATV provider hasn't enabled CP yet... doesn't mean they won't.

ellinj

11-29-05, 10:46 PM

How do I figure out which channel my box is using for vbi for tvgos? Do I have to go into each channel and do the the screenmode->9012 thing? Is it most likely a pbs station? Also, if I "turn off" the station that is sending me the tvgos is it true I will prevent guide data from downloading?

Thanks

Figured this one out, apparently I didn't get that there was actually a button on the rmote called screenmode. Even though I discovered the other code you need to enter in the TVGOS menu.

Mitch G

11-29-05, 10:56 PM

You are correct that the checkmark means "save until I delete". I set this as the default for ALL recordings. But Lost and Invasion do not have the checkmark for the last two weeks (while all other recordings do). This is what is strange.

Just another TVGOS mystery, I guess.

That is strange. You better go change those recordings before they get deleted. :)

BTW, I checked some programs I have set up for recording "regularly" and they show the red circle with the R in the Listings (as well as in the Schedule list).
If I understood your earlier post correctly, you weren't seeing the record circle in your Listings. So, it's something strange with your TVGOS set up. But, what could that be? Do you get your HD via CableCard or OTA? I get mine OTA.

Mitch

PhillyC

11-29-05, 11:20 PM

My opinion is based on the number of posts I have read regarding this subject.

But of course you know that the "posts you have read" cannot be a representative sample of anything --- except the posts you have read.

PhillyC

11-29-05, 11:35 PM

Mitch G,

I have a CableCARD. Tomorrow's scheduled recordings of the same programs look OK, after two weeks of strangeness. Very odd, but at least the recordings have not failed as long as they appear correctly in the Scheduled Programs List.

Now this coming Sunday, the 5 minute extension of Desperate Housewives did confuse the DVR. The scheduled weekly 60 minute recording was grayed out and I had to go to the listings to schedule a recording of the 65 minute program. I can't understand why this would happen, because sometimes a one-hour show will have a special two-hour episode --- and I've seen the guide adjust automatically and record the full two hours for that one episode, then revert back to the usual one hour the following week.

It's the inconsistent behavior at times that is confusing.

hdaddiction

11-29-05, 11:41 PM

This looks like a good deal at the local best buy, but does anyone have this with the cable card installed and able to record digital from cable?....

If you do, what did you have to do to convince your local cable provider to disable the copy protection enabled???

Esp in St louis market or charter cable...

thank you very much

hdaddiction

dp70

11-30-05, 12:07 AM

gothamweb

11-30-05, 12:10 AM

They have abandoned New York though - NYC has been without TVGOS since October, and Gemstar rep contacted me saying that they dont know if and when they will resolve the all digial lineup with TWC

I just dont understand how Sony and all the other vendors sell a product with a premium without any contracts in place with cable companies.

My goodness, sooooo many assumptions....they might start broadcasting, they might abandon.....

here is my two cents, tvgos will continue to backwardly support all products out there.

And the sony dvr recorder will continue to operate with tvgos for 10 years.

I cant beleive all the doom and gloom post on recording will or won't it....will congress let us record...*I'm betting they will*...will tvgos work with the new roll out...I'm betting it will and not abandon 2 or 4 million tvs out there already.

Mango