And what is your status? Is all well with your downloads? Cable or OTA? And where are you located?

Maryland suburbs of Washington DC. OTA only. All is running smoothly on both recorders, full updates every evening. Since my testing recorder recently reverted back to its analog host channel (got the digital host during testing), I plan to resume testing of a recovery from a full TVGOS reset in a digital-only environment (I have to simulate the digital-only part).

Last weekend I noticed that my Sony 250 had an incorrect time. I also noticed that my guide was messed up. I have both OTA and cable, but no cable box or card. I tried rescanning both air and cable, but still got nothing. I tried the VBI search on channel 2.1 (CBS) and nothing changed. Finally desperate to get my channel listing back to where it was before, I did a full factory reset. By mistake! My clock is still off, no guide data after 2 days. I tried talking to Sony support and all they told me was to do a Restore to Factory setting, which I did yesterday at noon. I checked the box today and still no guide and clock is still off. Sony rep said that they are aware of some problems, re analog broadcast transitioning to digital but I thought that channel 28 (PBS) which was my old host was still transmitting TVGOS. Does anybody know if they stopped transmitting? Will my beloved DVR my go to the junk yard?
I know 2.1 (CBS) is transmitting TVGOS because I used it before. I guess the question is if analog TVGOS is no longer available, can my 250 pick up the digital signal from 2.1 from a full factory reset? My Sony 250 has firware 1.2.06.

I really like having a HD recording device without subscription fees! I read somewhere that the Echostar TR50 has been pulled, if so what else can we get if in fact my Sony 250 is dead.

Interestingly, I've had no clock issues, even though my guides are gone here in NYC. I at least know that I don't have a brick, thankfully.

I don't have a big problem programming by date and time. My units have the .13 software, as both had been back at one time or another to Sony Service.

Really, why can't TVGOS tell us that "we will be switching over on date X", and why can't sony say "it probably maybe should work digitally". It appears that the unit searches analog, then and only then digital. Meanwhile, we live in hope that TVGOS remains compatable.

It is all very likely that this answer is known, but win or lose, no one is telling us mice. :(

I tried using the edit channel feature to uncheck all analog channels. I had a hunch that if the box saw no analogs at all that it might use a digital for host.

I read above somewhere that unchecking these does not stop the DVR from looking at them. In any case, it failed.

A filter might be able to restrict reception to only the digital VBI channel, and then rescan all channels. That might make the experiment possible.

Well, first I did the TVGOS reset. Then I did the G* test on my local (Dallas where the local PBS analog station no longer sends out Guide data) CBS station after verifying they are xmitting TVGOS data and left the unit on overnight (auto-off is turned off) for the past 3 nights. I'm still on 8.01.42 firmware and the clock is still wrong. No TV Guide of course.

Anyone out there have any ideas?

In the 753... information screens: What is the software version information? What is the host channel? What is the clock set channel? What are the settings for Timezone Element, Timezone Version, and Offset (sec) from UTC? Is GMT correct?

Also, what time is displayed on the screen and what time is displayed on the panel clock?

Don't tell us the software version from the G* Test.

I was hoping there might be some interest in doing this.

If every one of us was experiencing the exact same thing it would be a possibility.

With various feeds and locations, and whether OTA or cable, and unique stations and cable companies transmitting the data, not to mention the differences in our individual units, or what TVGOS might decide to send out and any given time, what may work for one may not work for anyone else.

I'm a poster child for the mishmash with three units and only one working correctly.

Last weekend I noticed that my Sony 250 had an incorrect time. I also noticed that my guide was messed up. I have both OTA and cable, but no cable box or card. I tried rescanning both air and cable, but still got nothing. I tried the VBI search on channel 2.1 (CBS) and nothing changed. Finally desperate to get my channel listing back to where it was before, I did a full factory reset. By mistake! My clock is still off, no guide data after 2 days. I tried talking to Sony support and all they told me was to do a Restore to Factory setting, which I did yesterday at noon. I checked the box today and still no guide and clock is still off. Sony rep said that they are aware of some problems, re analog broadcast transitioning to digital but I thought that channel 28 (PBS) which was my old host was still transmitting TVGOS. Does anybody know if they stopped transmitting? Will my beloved DVR my go to the junk yard?
I know 2.1 (CBS) is transmitting TVGOS because I used it before. I guess the question is if analog TVGOS is no longer available, can my 250 pick up the digital signal from 2.1 from a full factory reset? My Sony 250 has firware 1.2.06.

I really like having a HD recording device without subscription fees! I read somewhere that the Echostar TR50 has been pulled, if so what else can we get if in fact my Sony 250 is dead.
It seems to be possible to get correct time from a digital TVGOS channel, as described in posts of the last few days. Thus, my DVR works fine in manual mode. There is just no lineup or listing info.

[You should be able to get the 08.06.44 software update. Try tuning to a channel that has TVGOS data, running the G* Test, and leaving the recorder on. It sounds like you have correct GMT, but the wrong DST parameters, so your clock should be correct once you get the update.

After a couple of days and nothing, I did a Tvguide reset last night followed immediately by G-test on CBS 5.1 (SF bay area). The unit passed the VBI testing and ran for almost 12 minutes with VBI increments up to over 1000.
I then checked status 753... and saw I had already updated to verson 08.05.40 !!
The clock had set but was 1 hour slow.
Did the VBI search channel for about 1 minute and shut it off. This morning I'm up to 08.06.44 but time still off and nothing else (no ch setup or listings).
I still think the major issue is with the CBS digital broadcast ? Note: I also ran a G-test on several analog stations before the reset including CBS 5 and none had VBI data !!.
Reason I think it is with the CBS station is that my pioneer plasma (with version 9 Tvgos) is also not getting any guide data since they shut off PBS analog last week !!!

FWIW, both of my 250s have version 88.

Where is this 88. info located ??
I don't remember seeing that.

Todd

I tried using the edit channel feature to uncheck all analog channels. I had a hunch that if the box saw no analogs at all that it might use a digital for host.

I read above somewhere that unchecking these does not stop the DVR from looking at them. In any case, it failed.

A filter might be able to restrict reception to only the digital VBI channel, and then rescan all channels. That might make the experiment possible.

Cubit,

According to an LG TVGOS training manual, turning off the host station in the channel lineup will prevent TVGOS from downloading. Extrapolating from that concept, turning off all of your analog channels SHOULD help. (Some here think that it doesn't matter if they are on or off, but the training manual states otherwise.) SO, turning them off is a good thing. I think what you need to do next is the G* test with your device tuned to your KNOWN CBS digital station. Then, power OFF the box and leave it alone overnight.

Just my opinion. My box works perfectly after doing so.

Last weekend I noticed that my Sony 250 had an incorrect time. I also noticed that my guide was messed up. I have both OTA and cable, but no cable box or card. I tried rescanning both air and cable, but still got nothing. I tried the VBI search on channel 2.1 (CBS) and nothing changed. Finally desperate to get my channel listing back to where it was before, I did a full factory reset. By mistake! My clock is still off, no guide data after 2 days. I tried talking to Sony support and all they told me was to do a Restore to Factory setting, which I did yesterday at noon. I checked the box today and still no guide and clock is still off. Sony rep said that they are aware of some problems, re analog broadcast transitioning to digital but I thought that channel 28 (PBS) which was my old host was still transmitting TVGOS. Does anybody know if they stopped transmitting? Will my beloved DVR my go to the junk yard?
I know 2.1 (CBS) is transmitting TVGOS because I used it before. I guess the question is if analog TVGOS is no longer available, can my 250 pick up the digital signal from 2.1 from a full factory reset? My Sony 250 has firware 1.2.06.

I really like having a HD recording device without subscription fees! I read somewhere that the Echostar TR50 has been pulled, if so what else can we get if in fact my Sony 250 is dead.
Your statements seem to be a little confusing as to your host channel. Sounds like on one hand you were using a digital host and then on the other an analog one.
I assume that you have had an analog host all along and now (PBS) no longer is carrying it or they are haveing problems. You should first check with the analog station to see if they are stiil handling TVGOS and if not, who is? Perhaps CBS 2.1? Then contact them and find out what the status is. Then you can do the following:If you have verified that you have a digital host (through the G* test) then follow the procedure from Frank70 on how to set the digital host. Not sure which post it is.
Also, from my own reset, it took several days before the time came back along with the proper software version. I did not ever lose the guide, just some days of listings.
Michael

Cubit,

According to an LG TVGOS training manual, turning off the host station in the channel lineup will prevent TVGOS from downloading. Extrapolating from that concept, turning off all of your analog channels SHOULD help. (Some here think that it doesn't matter if they are on or off, but the training manual states otherwise.)
Just my opinion.

This thing is not an LG !!!
I have ALWAYS (for over 4 years) had all analog stations turned OFF (in the TVguide setup and Sony channel list) but the host channel was always the analog PBS.
Turning the channels off does NOT delete them, they are just not shown when you cycle thru with CH up/dwn buttons. Reason they want you to turn off unused channels from TV guide setup is so the unit is not trying to download a bunch of unused data.. Just my opinion..

[


Where is this 88. info located ??
I don't remember seeing that.

Todd

Under version

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=137072&d=1237384725

This thing is not an LG !!!


Sorry, Todd, I wasn't specific enough. I KNOW it's not an LG, but the issue is with the TVGOS software. According to the TVGOS training manual for the LG technicians, the TVGOS will stop downloading from the host channel if that host channel is turned off in the channel +/- menu. Even though this is not an LG, the same principles apply because this IS TVGOS.

As I said, I have one of these and it is working perfectly after doing so. By the way, during a transition period, when I was getting both analog PBS and digital CBS I turned off the PBS station just to see what would happen. Amazing...my guide data quit coming...until I turned my PBS station back on. Now I have no analog and my digital has stayed for a month and a half now. No problems.

Don't get sidetracked...
My ver. is 80 and the device is working fine.

If every one of us was experiencing the exact same thing it would be a possibility.

With various feeds and locations, and whether OTA or cable, and unique stations and cable companies transmitting the data, not to mention the differences in our individual units, or what TVGOS might decide to send out and any given time, what may work for one may not work for anyone else.

I'm a poster child for the mishmash with three units and only one working correctly.

The one part that is the same for everyone is that if you do a TVGOS reset and your software is set to the default for your recorder, you must go through a two step software update process (08.01.42-->08.05.40-->08.06.44) before you can recover. If the tests prove successful, you will be able to reset the default software to 08.06.44 and avoid the time delay many experience during recovery. That is the hope anyway. Also, wouldn't it be useful to know what each of the 66 unpublished commands actually does? We might discover something useful before the test machine becomes a brick.

Don't get sidetracked...
My ver. is 80 and the device is working fine.

And the obvious question becomes why do we have different versions (so far, 84, 88, and 80) and what does it mean?

Cubit,

According to an LG TVGOS training manual, turning off the host station in the channel lineup will prevent TVGOS from downloading. Extrapolating from that concept, turning off all of your analog channels SHOULD help. (Some here think that it doesn't matter if they are on or off, but the training manual states otherwise.) SO, turning them off is a good thing. I think what you need to do next is the G* test with your device tuned to your KNOWN CBS digital station. Then, power OFF the box and leave it alone overnight.

Just my opinion. My box works perfectly after doing so.

This is nonsense, but it won't hurt your recorder. The LG TVGOS training manual cited is just plain WRONG in the case of the Sony DHGs. I've had all of my analog stations turned off on one of my recorders for over a year and had no problem downloading TVGOS data from my analog host channel. Do you have an LG or a Sony? Also, the station that you have tuned when the recorder is turned of doesn't matter at all unless you are running a 963214785 command.

As I said, I have one of these and it is working perfectly after doing so. By the way, during a transition period, when I was getting both analog PBS and digital CBS I turned off the PBS station just to see what would happen. Amazing...my guide data quit coming...until I turned my PBS station back on. Now I have no analog and my digital has stayed for a month and a half now. No problems.

All I can say is what I already did..
My unit has always had all analog channels turned off and I still had PBS analog as my host up until last week !!!
I would be interested if your host channel is the CBS digital now ?? Unfortunately we are all at the mercy of our local broadcasters competance with the guide data insertion so each case is different.

Last weekend I noticed that my Sony 250 had an incorrect time. I also noticed that my guide was messed up. I have both OTA and cable, but no cable box or card. I tried rescanning both air and cable, but still got nothing. I tried the VBI search on channel 2.1 (CBS) and nothing changed. Finally desperate to get my channel listing back to where it was before, I did a full factory reset. By mistake! My clock is still off, no guide data after 2 days. I tried talking to Sony support and all they told me was to do a Restore to Factory setting, which I did yesterday at noon. I checked the box today and still no guide and clock is still off. Sony rep said that they are aware of some problems, re analog broadcast transitioning to digital but I thought that channel 28 (PBS) which was my old host was still transmitting TVGOS. Does anybody know if they stopped transmitting? Will my beloved DVR my go to the junk yard?
I know 2.1 (CBS) is transmitting TVGOS because I used it before. I guess the question is if analog TVGOS is no longer available, can my 250 pick up the digital signal from 2.1 from a full factory reset? My Sony 250 has firware 1.2.06.

I really like having a HD recording device without subscription fees! I read somewhere that the Echostar TR50 has been pulled, if so what else can we get if in fact my Sony 250 is dead.

Channel 28 seems to have terminated TVGOS but channel 11 OTA is still sending it. I have TW cable but yet to find TVGOS channel there.

Last night I accidentally reset guide data on my 250 unit, and thus reset software version and got a blank clock. I have a roof mounted UHF antenna, with which I get a very weak picture on VHF channel 11. So I replaced that antenna with indoor rabbit ears, and left the unit off overnight. This morning, the clock was set to standard time and software version had updated one step but there was no guide data. I turned the unit off and hope that guide data will finally return.

My 250 unit had been working perfectly for several weeks, until last night when I went to watch a recorded program while the unit was recording CSI NY. Instead of seeing the recording, CSI NY program appeared in a small window on a black screen. In attempt to clear the problem, I pushed several buttons, which caused the unit to restart.

Ray

The one part that is the same for everyone is that if you do a TVGOS reset and your software is set to the default for your recorder, you must go through a two step software update process (08.01.42-->08.05.40-->08.06.44) before you can recover. If the tests prove successful, you will be able to reset the default software to 08.06.44 and avoid the time delay many experience during recovery. That is the hope anyway. Also, wouldn't it be useful to know what each of the 66 unpublished commands actually does? We might discover something useful before the test machine becomes a brick.

And the most important part is that TVGOS V-8.01.42 does not appear to be digital compatible, whereas the newer version IS at least partially compatible. After June 12th, it could well be impossible to update from 8.01.42 at all. That is why it would be most beneficial to have 8.06.44 resident in flash memory in your DHG. Currently, any time you do a full reset and lose your channel lineup, your TVGOS reverts to 8.01.42.

All I can say is what I already did..
My unit has always had all analog channels turned off and I still had PBS analog as my host up until last week !!!
I would be interested if your host channel is the CBS digital now ?? Unfortunately we are all at the mercy of our local broadcasters competance with the guide data insertion so each case is different.

Okay...
Let me be clear...I own a DHG-HDD250. I have experienced these problems as well. I think I have an advantage in that we do not have 35 digital stations in our area. My DHG-HDD250 is working perfectly with no analog turned on.

I can only relay my experience. When analog PBS was turned off in the channel +/- menu, in the analog/digital world, my DVR quit downloading guide data. When I turned it back on, it started working again. When my area went to all digital...with our huge number of 6 OTA stations (that's sarcasm)...I have been getting digital guide data ever since I did the lockup resolution with no setbacks. It IS a digital host channel.

I'm happy as a lark, recording, watching, recording AND watching at the same time, my programs on my SONY DHG-HDD250.

I do think you are right that the broadcaster's competence in what they are doing may have a lot to do with it.

If Turtle lives I will report. If Turtle dies I will report.

After 8PM tonight will be an additional 24 hours since my Sony Box was turned “on”. It is also after 7:30PM that there should be no download activity – which does not resume until after 10:15PM

When the box was last “on” yesterday: Correct Time was resolved, All Ads downloaded. Ver. 84 was in the box. And “ID line” (first line page 1) appeared to be at least two notches away from being current? Therefore there is “no grid” and “no data listings” – and the info page was showing 1.5 million rejects for Guide Data (had no grid to put it in).

ID - 8H077-3050T21-7V08T/FFFFFFFF12345678

However, others have said ID has nothing to do with it?

For those that have 100% operating units with Digital Downloads (not analogue); what is your page 1 ID?

(side note: Remember that Sony Product Specialist said the boxes will have to have a patch/fixed/upgrade AND that they (Sony-not really Macrovision) are working on it. I strongly encourage "all" to call Sony support AND get through to a "product specialist" to find out the status for a "fix" for these units.)

Okay...
Let me be clear...I own a DHG-HDD250. I have experienced these problems as well. I think I have an advantage in that we do not have 35 digital stations in our area. My DHG-HDD250 is working perfectly with no analog turned on.

I don't think that anyone disagrees with your statement, even in an analog world the DHG will work perfectly with all analogs turned off.

I can only relay my experience. When analog PBS was turned off in the channel +/- menu, in the analog/digital world, my DVR quit downloading guide data. When I turned it back on, it started working again. When my area went to all digital...with our huge number of 6 OTA stations (that's sarcasm)...I have been getting digital guide data ever since I did the lockup resolution with no setbacks. It IS a digital host channel.

This has not been the experience of others, including me.


I'm happy as a lark, recording, watching, recording AND watching at the same time, my programs on my SONY DHG-HDD250.

But since you are in a completely digital world, would you be willing to risk doing a full reset, and losing your channel lineup, and having your TVGOS revert to V-8.01.42, and try to see if your DHG can recover and become functional again in the purely digital world? THAT would be the true test.

But since you are in a completely digital world, would you be willing to risk doing a full reset, and losing your channel lineup, and having your TVGOS revert to V-8.01.42, and try to see if your DHG can recover and become functional again in the purely digital world? THAT would be the true test.

Quite honestly, I'm not going to press my luck. However, here's something that I posted on Spiff's site a while back:

Had a power failure in my neighborhood Saturday (2/28), when my hdd250 rebooted, it showed the old firmware version 8.01.42. Didn't have to rescan channels, but performed the G* test for VBI packets to get my clock to come back from my digital CBS station (because I'm impatient).

The good news is that a few hours later the firmware was 8.05.40 and then overnight became the 8.06.44. So, it appears that the firmware DOES update using the digital only station, even if the machine resets to 8.01.42.

Channel 28 seems to have terminated TVGOS but channel 11 OTA is still sending it. I have TW cable but yet to find TVGOS channel there.

Last night I accidentally reset guide data on my 250 unit, and thus reset software version and got a blank clock. I have a roof mounted UHF antenna, with which I get a very weak picture on VHF channel 11. So I replaced that antenna with indoor rabbit ears, and left the unit off overnight. This morning, the clock was set to standard time and software version had updated one step but there was no guide data. I turned the unit off and hope that guide data will finally return.

Ray

I'll be interested to learn your results from ch. 11. I got no day 8 listings Sun.-Tue. and assumed 11 had bit the dust. For the past 2 nights though I have gotten day 8 listings. Problem is I can't tell now if 11 rose from the ashes or if my units decided to use 2-1 when they are turned off. :confused:

bmwood -

I'm assuming you are OTA only. Would you mind providing your zipcode (in a PM would be fine) as "proof" of your digital-only status. And the model number of your antenna would be nice too, to insure that you not pulling in analog from far away................. :)

bmwood -

I'm assuming you are OTA only. Would you mind providing your zipcode (in a PM would be fine) as "proof" of your digital-only status. And the model number of your antenna would be nice too, to insure that you not pulling in analog from far away................. :)

Zip is 31093. You'll find CBS still broadcasting an analog because they didn't get their request into the FCC on time. However, I called the station and the TVGOS data is being broadcast on digital 4.0 frequency. That is what I show in my host channel on the DVR (0:4-0) with a clock set channel of (0:4-1).

The antenna is simply a rooftop antenna purchased from Radio Shack 10 or so years ago. I do not receive anything but the local 6 stations with 10 digital channels.

channel +/- menu, in the analog/digital world, my DVR quit downloading guide data.

From lots & lots & lots of testing, I can tell you that things work very differently if your 753 host is analog vs. your 753 host being digital. First off - there are two things that matter - 1) is your host CHANNEL number - 2) is your host STATION, which is determined by your zip code. ON/OFFs generally don't matter. I still haven't confirmed though whether at least one version of the STATION needs to be on (??). But anyway read on...consider this an overall summary...

Analog 753 host
---------------
Only channels assigned to your host STATION matter - including all various Air/Cable versions. There are three possibilities...

1) Your 753 host CHANNEL is also assigned to one of the versions of your host STATION in the channel editor.
RESULT 1) Listings work OK. You will get listings from your one local host.

2) Your 753 host CHANNEL is not assigned to any of the versions of your host STATION, however among the CHANNELs that are assigned is a valid host from a different market.
RESULT 2) In this case something neat & strange happens : you get daily listing updates from both the out-of-market host and your local host !! (but see note *** below)

3) Your 753 host CHANNEL is not assigned to any of the versions of your host STATION and none of the other CHANNELs assigned are valid hosts.
RESULT 3) No listings are updated.

NOTE) Cable CHANNELs take precedence over Air CHANNELs.
NOTE) Digital CHANNELs are ignored.

Digital 753 Host
---------------
Life is grand with a digital host. Listings are updated regardless of channel assignments....with the added bonus that any other STATIONs (besides the 753 host station) will also contribute listings if it has a valid channel assigned to it. And..you can mix and match digital and analog hosts. I had my Sony using 3 hosts simutaneously when I was able to keep the 753 host as digitial (hoping to do the same once my analog goes away).

Note*** - Out-of-market hosts will only update listings for channels that are common to both your local and out-of-market hosts. To get complete channel lineups from both hosts...do a new setup with the out-of-market zip code first, then once you have a grid, do another new setup will your local zip code.

Of course I have to add a general disclaimer - this is the best I can come up with as far as the quirks of the Sony. There may be other quirks I haven't encountered. I have had an incentive to figure this out since I live on the CAN-US border and have been trying to use 2 hosts from day one - and have been successfully doing it for at least a year now. It sure would be nice if Macrovision had a massive TVGOS manual to cover all this.

I wouldn't try a lot of this until after June 12th when things settle down a bit.

Just to add...

If your 753 Host is blank I'm not sure what happens.

But since you are in a completely digital world, would you be willing to risk doing a full reset, and losing your channel lineup, and having your TVGOS revert to V-8.01.42, and try to see if your DHG can recover and become functional again in the purely digital world? THAT would be the true test.[/QUOTE]

I'd be interested too, as here in NYC, we have had no analog shutdown, but the Gemstar packets are on a digital channel. So, there is no G* on the analog channels, but G* on CBS 2-1...if the unit defaults to analog, then what. I've shut off all of the analog channels in the guide.

I'll report tomorrow.

I probably missunderstood your precise, but complex post. Let me try to suggest what you might have indicated.

? -that my zipcode will cause a download from TVGOS of a designated host channel. That if the host channel specified is not the digital TVGOS channel actually serving me, that I will get no lineup.

Therefore, by using a bogus zipcode from an area where the designated host channel is the same as my actual digital TVGOS station, the DVR will load the lineup for that region.

Maybe?

? -that my zipcode will cause a download from TVGOS of a designated host channel. That if the host channel specified is not the digital TVGOS channel actually serving me, that I will get no lineup.


Zip code determines the STATION - the Sony will do a bandscan to find an active TVGOS channel that matches that STATION ID, whether analog or digital. Analog takes precedance over digital though.

The channel assignments I mentioned are those you can manually edit in the TVGOS Channel Editor (not to be confused with the Sony +/- Editor).

Therefore, by using a bogus zipcode from an area where the designated host channel is the same as my actual digital TVGOS station, the DVR will load the lineup for that region.

Not quite.
Depends what you're trying to attempt? If you simply want your local listings, use your local zip code. If you have an analog host, it will take precedance over your digital host. You can force the digital host using the 963.. code, but as most of us have discovered, it usually reverts back to analog after a while. Once you only have a digital host in your area, then getting a digital host will be easier.

If you want to supplement your local listings with those of the adjacent market and can regularly receive the host station from that area, then you must first enter the out-of-market zip code, let it acquire a host and get a grid and listings, then repeat the procedure with your local host. This gives you combined channel lists from 2 hosts. But to actually get updates for both groups, you have to then follow method 2) if you have an analog host. If you have a digital host, you don't need to do anything - it'll just work.

One word of caution..with an analog host, the Sony's preference for a cable host over air does cause the process to be finicky. So experimentation may be needed. (But once working, it's stable).

I do think you are right that the broadcaster's competence in what they are doing may have a lot to do with it.
Actually, I think that in virtually no case is the TVGOS dependent on the BROADCASTER...it is Macrovision that controls the inserter and what goes into it (via their internet connection)...

It is true, that what is happening at the stations counts, but it is has nothing to do with the broadcasters' competence, only that of Macrosightless...

I was hoping there might be some interest in doing this. But it's looking like no one (but me) is willing to risk anything at all. There doesn't seem to be any flood of responses in the forum, any no one has PM'd me about it either.



I was hoping you would get more response on this. You can consider me a lurker. Very few posts (My 250 works fine thank you) But very concerned about the possible brick status come the digital age (whenever congress decides it will finally be). Thus an avid reader of the forum.

Despite the proclamations of success herein...I find no one that has absolutely NO ACCESS to analog claiming their machine works after a complete factory reset. Many claim there machines work, but all of them also claim to have "turned off" or made their machine "ignore" the analog channels, but I suspect in the background when it needs it...it grabs something off the analog host unbeknownst to us mere mortals LOL.

With this in mind...I'd be willing to donate $20 to the experiment to discover what some of these service commands will do for us.

It seems to be possible to get correct time from a digital TVGOS channel, as described in posts of the last few days. Thus, my DVR works fine in manual mode. There is just no lineup or listing info.

Even if you have the correct time, By the way my 250 updated the time it is now exactly 1 hour late, (Daylight saving time not adjusted?) Doing manual recording is a pain. But I will live with it if my unit ever gets the correct time!

As most have found out Sony is no help, they go through the script and at the end of it they say, we are aware of some problems and our engineers are working on a fix. When I remind them that the original transition date for DTV was back in February and that it is my opinion that Sony should have had a fix for this problem by now, they say sorry but little else.

For those that have given up on these DVRs, May I suggest that we all ship these to the COO of Sony Electronics, freight collect to air our displeasure about SONY's lack of planning and response to us.

southbayla -

I noted your pledge on the post below, to organize them in one place............

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16070467&postcount=14721

Finally, maybe this means something, or not, on the "Section VBI DATA VBIDLSCHED" screen, under the version column, the functioning 250 has version "88", the malfunctioning 500 has version "84". Does it mean anything? And how and when does that version change?

I think that I may have the answer to these questions and possibly to the problem that you are experiencing with your 500s. I believe the key to this puzzle is the time zone packets. Time zone packets populate the time-related fields in the Section Other-Clocks 1 screen of the 753... information display, including the Time Zone Version field, which on my recorders is now set to 88. This corresponds to the version in the download schedules on the Section VBI Data-VBIDLSchedule screen. This value is updated when your recorder receives a time zone packet with information that is different than what is currently stored in your recorder. If the Time Zone Version field is different than the download version or if the information contained in the download is in a newer format than what your recorder is expecting, then your recorder may not be able to process it. I think that you should start monitoring your TimezonePkts count on the Section Reception-VBI Stats screen to see if you are receiving the data necessary to update your recorder to the latest Time Zone Version.

FWIW
2-500's-OTA only
For the last three days 0-11 PBS and 0-2 CBS were not broadcasting VBI data.
2-1 and 3-1 were very strong.
Now it appears 0-2 is back and stronger than ever.

Last Friday I tried switching both machines to 2-1 using the VBI to 963214785 menu.
both switched to digital with one showing 2-1 as host and clock and the other showed no host with 2-1 as clock set.
Now..
1st machine has been fine, all listings and clock are good, now showing host as 0-2 and clock set as 2-1.

2nd machine I screwed up with a "Reset to Factory Default". Couldn't get clock so I did a soft reset and set to 3-1. No ads and sw was at 42.
No clock over night so I set to 2-1 and left off over night.
Clock only showed time offset from 12:00 for the length of time since last reset.
(0-11 and 0-2 still showed no VBI data on either machine after many tries.)
Left it off set to 2-1 over night again and I now have correct clock, sw 44, ads and a grid, no listings yet.
I assume 0-2 started sending data again sometime overnight or during the day today.
Hoping it gets listings tonight.
When I saw the clock was the right time I was hoping it was all digital but I'm just glad to be this far.
All I know is the other machine was fine with no analog VBI data, all listings were there and clock was correct with the 500 turned off at night.

Spoke too soon - not getting anything anymore as of today. My time's still good, but once I lose power who knows. I was able to set a couple of recordings tonight using the blank grid blocks, because I still have the channels listed.

But the host channel was listed as 2 analog yesterday for some reason, and I was still getting listings.

I'd hook up the Pal and test it out, but I can't receive WBBM-DT right now. Thank our wonderful government for that.

I forced my host to cable CBS-HD overnight. All versions, clock, etc. are correct, but no listings. I can only do "VCR" recordings at this point.

I see that reldnips in Carol Stream just reported that OTA analog 2 may be transmitting data again. Have not checked it yet.

Even if you have the correct time, By the way my 250 updated the time it is now exactly 1 hour late, (Daylight saving time not adjusted?) Doing manual recording is a pain. But I will live with it if my unit ever gets the correct time!



Only problem making a manual recording with the clock off 1 hour is if the clock switches to DST between the time you set the recording and when the recording takes place. My unit was on standard time this morning and now is on DST. I had previously set to record at 8 pm as backup for the guide setting but with clock on PST and no guide, I was considering making another manual setting for 9 pm.

Ray
PS as I have posted several times, even without the guide, the DVR is far superior to any VCR.

And the most important part is that TVGOS V-8.01.42 does not appear to be digital compatible, whereas the newer version IS at least partially compatible. After June 12th, it could well be impossible to update from 8.01.42 at all. That is why it would be most beneficial to have 8.06.44 resident in flash memory in your DHG. Currently, any time you do a full reset and lose your channel lineup, your TVGOS reverts to 8.01.42.

Absolutely false! I have recovered from 8.01.42/00.00.00, to /08.06.44. about 3 times now, and I have been completely digital Since January 5th. The problem most people here are having is with version 08.06.44, and what do you guys want us to do? Send money so you can figure out how to burn this buggy software into flash memory...

Sorry, guys, but I cant stop laughing.

Mark

If Turtle lives I will report. If Turtle dies I will report.

After 8PM tonight will be an additional 24 hours since my Sony Box was turned “on”. It is also after 7:30PM that there should be no download activity – which does not resume until after 10:15PM

When the box was last “on” yesterday: Correct Time was resolved, All Ads downloaded. Ver. 84 was in the box. And “ID line” (first line page 1) appeared to be at least two notches away from being current? Therefore there is “no grid” and “no data listings” – and the info page was showing 1.5 million rejects for Guide Data (had no grid to put it in).

ID - 8H077-3050T21-7V08T/FFFFFFFF12345678

However, others have said ID has nothing to do with it?

For those that have 100% operating units with Digital Downloads (not analogue); what is your page 1 ID?

(side note: Remember that Sony Product Specialist said the boxes will have to have a patch/fixed/upgrade AND that they (Sony-not really Macrovision) are working on it. I strongly encourage "all" to call Sony support AND get through to a "product specialist" to find out the status for a "fix" for these units.)

Sorry HoustonPerson,

My DVR was recording last night, or I would have posted this then:

28479-V273T21-7V085

My Panasonic's ID is 2X479-V279714-R2309

Now that I put those numbers together in the same place, I see the similarity between the first 5 digits of both numbers.

Mark

Maryland suburbs of Washington DC. OTA only. All is running smoothly on both recorders, full updates every evening. Since my testing recorder recently reverted back to its analog host channel (got the digital host during testing), I plan to resume testing of a recovery from a full TVGOS reset in a digital-only environment (I have to simulate the digital-only part).

I'm not sure how you can simulate an all digital environment. For a year, my DHG was picking up CBS analog OTA as host --- with no antenna connected. The picture was unwatchable when I tuned to that channel, but guide data came through (with quite a few errors). That host stuck even though there were perfect cable channels sending data.

And, if Possumgirl is correct, the Sony may be using available analog channels when off even though the host is digital. My host for several perfect months was cable CBS digital, but now I wonder if the Sony was really just getting info from an analog channel.

OTOH, there were times that I left it on with the G*Test and got 8 days of data in a few hours from the digital channel. Now I can't get anything that way (or any other way) even though my clock and SW are correct.

Something does not add up here. I fear that TVGOS (in its great wisdom) has recently made changes that don't agree with our DHG's in the way the digital guide works, but that do agree with more recent "certified" digital guide devices. In that case, we may be SOL.

Your statements seem to be a little confusing as to your host channel. Sounds like on one hand you were using a digital host and then on the other an analog one.
I assume that you have had an analog host all along and now (PBS) no longer is carrying it or they are haveing problems. You should first check with the analog station to see if they are stiil handling TVGOS and if not, who is? Perhaps CBS 2.1? Then contact them and find out what the status is. Then you can do the following:If you have verified that you have a digital host (through the G* test) then follow the procedure from Frank70 on how to set the digital host. Not sure which post it is.
Also, from my own reset, it took several days before the time came back along with the proper software version. I did not ever lose the guide, just some days of listings.
Michael

Excellent advice AtlantisMichael! Everyone who is having problems should be doing this. The last thing anyone should do during the early stage of troubleshooting is any kind of reset.

Mark

I forced my host to cable CBS-HD overnight. All versions, clock, etc. are correct, but no listings. I can only do "VCR" recordings at this point.

I see that reldnips in Carol Stream just reported that OTA analog 2 may be transmitting data again. Have not checked it yet.My EH55 the last couple of nights said it was getting the clock and channel listings, but it was stuck at getting any guide data. (It has V9 - which is nice, because it actually has a screen which tells you these things).

So that would jibe with what you're saying, and also probably why I'm still getting the time and channel listings on my Sony (but also no guide data), which generally uses the same host channel.

I haven't checked either unit today so far, but I'll have to get my arse off-line and do that now.

I'll be interested to learn your results from ch. 11. I got no day 8 listings Sun.-Tue. and assumed 11 had bit the dust. For the past 2 nights though I have gotten day 8 listings. Problem is I can't tell now if 11 rose from the ashes or if my units decided to use 2-1 when they are turned off. :confused:

Channel 11 is definitely supplying guide data. My 250 unit, which was reset, now shows the correct time and Channel 11 as the clock source - host channel is blank. Software was updated to 06.44 but no guide data yet.

My 500 unit has guide data for 8 days but no ads. Channel 11 is both host and clock set channel.
Also, this unit is receiving the guide channel from my UHF antenna, which delivers a very weak signal.

Ray
PS now that channel 11 is the only analog channel with guide data, a VHF/UHF splitter could be added to block out that channel to simulate a digital only environment.

So I am becoming despondent of these things. It is becoming obvious that when something goes wrong, it goes wrong in different ways.

I visit my mother and to check on her 500.

First, the version 84 or 88 or whatever, in the download time page, is not a clue of anything. Her version is 88 and her Sony is not functioning properly.

The good news. It's usable. It has a correct clock and recordings can be set manually. That will now likely not be true soon, but for now I rejoice.

Now the strange news. No listings or ads. That not news.

It has a Host channel, same as the one that works on my 250, 14, and it passes the G-test. VBI packets at the rate of over 250 a minute.

BUT. You know where on the G-test screen there is a line for a series of numbers for both VBI and ATSC -well that line is BLANK.

On the screen that shows the Host channel, well the host channel shows as cable 14, good so far, but the VBI channel (which is simply the channel currently tuned to before entering the screens) well that only shows fffffff- no matter what channel is tuned.

So what does that mean? I don't remember anyone reporting that before.

I'm not sure how you can simulate an all digital environment. For a year, my DHG was picking up CBS analog OTA as host --- with no antenna connected. The picture was unwatchable when I tuned to that channel, but guide data came through (with quite a few errors). That host stuck even though there were perfect cable channels sending data.

And, if Possumgirl is correct, the Sony may be using available analog channels when off even though the host is digital. My host for several perfect months was cable CBS digital, but now I wonder if the Sony was really just getting info from an analog channel.


I agree with PhillyC, and Possumgirl. ImTheOne's DVR is cheating on it's digital host, with the much more attractive analog host, and he's the last to know. :p


Something does not add up here. I fear that TVGOS (in its great wisdom) has recently made changes that don't agree with our DHG's in the way the digital guide works, but that do agree with more recent "certified" digital guide devices. In that case, we may be SOL.


I totally agree, just look at macrovision's website, and how many times they throw out the D*Pal word. They've been telling people they must buy that other product, and they're going to make d*mn sure that other product works, even if it means the Sony DVRs won't work.

Mark

At this point I have 0 credibility.I am sorry to the forum for last few erroneous
posts I have posted. But when TVGOS calls me and says things, who else can I believe? I have deleted those posts (I think) and hoping this post makes up for the mis-informed ones.
Today I got a second call and email from george at TVGOS. All good news and answers the question for the S.F. market (see email copy).
TVGOS does use PBS like in Illinois for sending the digital signal. It is up and running.
TVGOS will work with any TVGOS product as long as it has an atsc tuner and slicer. Bottom line is it will work with the Sony.They just have not turned it on yet in S.F. Here's what was sent regarding KPIX.

Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support
center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

We will assume your issue has been resolved if we do not hear from you
within 48 hours.

Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.

Subject
---------------------------------------------------------------
Voice Mail Message ( '9256990890' ) ( 57 seconds )


Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (George Piandes) - 03/19/2009 01:03 PM
Hello Collier,

As per our phone conversation, KPIX (CBS) has our new digital equipment installed, but we are still awaiting corporate CBS to allow us to turn on the SCTE 127 data. I am attaching a word document for collecting diagnostics. If you would like to follow the instructions to collect the diags and fill out the doc. and send it back, we would be interested to see what data your guide is seeing.
Thank you.

Customer (External Caller (SCL1MAS1)) - 03/12/2009 09:43 PM
<<Avaya Modular Messaging>>

The attached voice message was created by Avaya's Modular Messaging. It
can be played on a multimedia-enabled PC running Windows. To listen,
please open the attachment.

==================== audio File Attachment ====================
VOICEATT.WAV, 461722 bytes, added to incident


[---001:001109:36364---]

An SF area note: like others, my Sony has had no host channel since the weekend, but HAS been getting listings (probably from CBS 5.1, ever since I did the G*-test/leave unit on Friday night of last week), after PBS 9 stopped broadcasting TVGOS the previous Tuesday.

I've noted before that CBS 5 has apparently been the source of TVGOS for my LG3410a, since I used the LG code for finding a new host channel Tuesday night of last week.

Others in this thread have mentioned finding out what the clock set channel on their Sony's was, and I HAD noticed that my "last clock set" was updating regularly, but had not gone searching for the clock set channel. I finally got around to finding that field in the diagnostic menus, and it's 0:29-0, which I interpret to be analog 29, and since 5.1 is 29.1 (according to an SF digital guide I have), I guess that's CBS analog 5.

I had been wondering why our Sony's weren't switching to analog 5, since that's where my LG is now getting its data, and I still do wonder, but it DOES appear my Sony is setting its CLOCK from 5 analog...

....As per our phone conversation, KPIX (CBS) has our new digital equipment installed, but we are still awaiting corporate CBS to allow us to turn on the SCTE 127 data. I am attaching a word document for collecting diagnostics. If you would like ....
I can't quite figure out what's what in your post, but I think what I've quoted is the operative part...

However, the SCTE 127 data apparently referred to is not the normal digital data, that would be used directly by a TVGOS unit with digital capability, as I understand it...rather, it is the data that a DTVPal would convert to an analog form for devices that need their data in analog form.

This standard - i.e., SCTE 127 -is discussed in the following document (which I believe has been referred to earlier in this thread, but which I found more easily in the LG3410aa thread, just because it's not as active):
http://laurenstephens.net/uploads/3d927cc0e5.pdf

Is use of the Pal what you were talking to the TVGOS people about? It doesn't sound like it from the beginning of your post.

I'd be happy to be corrected about this but anyone, but - as I said - I have trouble following what's in your post...

Thanks - Tony

TVGOS will work with any TVGOS product as long as it has an atsc tuner and slicer. Bottom line is it will work with the Sony.

Thank you Fox200!! You are forgiven. ;) The previous info that the host had to be analog made no sense to me at all as it flew in the face of everything I, and others, have been testing.

As per our phone conversation, KPIX (CBS) has our new digital equipment installed, but we are still awaiting corporate CBS to allow us to turn on the SCTE 127 data.

I suspect this may be at least part of the problem in other parts of the country as well and is why we see such a variation in the problems people are reporting.

Yesterday I predicted that after June 12, this board would be flooded with people having problems. I admit I was wrong. It seems the problems are already starting for a lot people, judging by the increased activity on this board.

Here's a strange update on my unit. It seems my unit (which is digital only), works great, until the host channel sets. Then the listings stop. That's right, as long as my host channel is blank, I get listings, but as soon as my host channel fills in, the listings stop. It has happened 3 times this week: Saturday my host set, and I didn't get listings Saturday night, or Sunday night. Monday I did a TV Guide/Exit reset. After that my host was blank, and I got listings Monday night, however my host channel set again Tuesday, and Tuesday night no listings. This morning I used the 'force host channel', to blank out my host (I'm not sure I can duplicate this though). Today while I was at work, my day 8 listings filled in. My host was still blank the last time I looked, and I hope to get listings tonight. I'm beginning to think there is something wrong with my zipcode that doesn't match some of the other data, so no downloads happen once my host channel sets.

Mark

Turtle still requires further resuscitation.

No Grid and No Listings

2.2 million Schedules rejected with no Grid to put them in.

Version is now 88; but ID # has not updated in the last 24 hours – ID# has changed 3 or 4 times during previous 24 hours.

Still locked into digital OTA CBS host and clock is accurate.

It also appears on several of my update screens that there is only “one” cycle per 24 hours – in other words all the SW updates and versions have to be in place before listing can be built into a grid. It other words the box has to get current enough to accept the data……….possible 4 or 5 days vs one day under the analogue only method.

I can't quite figure out what's what in your post, but I think what I've quoted is the operative part...

However, the SCTE 127 data apparently referred to is not the normal digital data, that would be used directly by a TVGOS unit with digital capability, as I understand it...rather, it is the data that a DTVPal would convert to an analog form for devices that need their data in analog form.

This standard - i.e., SCTE 127 -is discussed in the following document (which I believe has been referred to earlier in this thread, but which I found more easily in the LG3410aa thread, just because it's not as active):
http://laurenstephens.net/uploads/3d927cc0e5.pdf

Is use of the Pal what you were talking to the TVGOS people about? It doesn't sound like it from the beginning of your post.

I'd be happy to be corrected about this but anyone, but - as I said - I have trouble following what's in your post...

Thanks - Tony

Hello Tony
This has nothing to do with the Pal. That never came up. And I'm not sure about SCTE 127 as I have not had time to see what that is.

I'm not sure how you can simulate an all digital environment. For a year, my DHG was picking up CBS analog OTA as host --- with no antenna connected. The picture was unwatchable when I tuned to that channel, but guide data came through (with quite a few errors). That host stuck even though there were perfect cable channels sending data.

And, if Possumgirl is correct, the Sony may be using available analog channels when off even though the host is digital. My host for several perfect months was cable CBS digital, but now I wonder if the Sony was really just getting info from an analog channel.

OTOH, there were times that I left it on with the G*Test and got 8 days of data in a few hours from the digital channel. Now I can't get anything that way (or any other way) even though my clock and SW are correct.

Something does not add up here. I fear that TVGOS (in its great wisdom) has recently made changes that don't agree with our DHG's in the way the digital guide works, but that do agree with more recent "certified" digital guide devices. In that case, we may be SOL.

Many pages back (again, too lazy to find the post at the moment) I posted my then current version of the test procedure I was using to recover from a full TVGOS reset in a digital-only environment. It shows how I simulated the digital environment by leaving the recorder tuned to a digital station for parts of the procedure and forcing digital channels in other parts. I have modified the procedure slightly since posting it, but my last attempt was nearly a completely digital recovery (I had a clock issue which I could have tried to resolve differently). Once I have a complete success, I will strip out the simulation pieces and post the recovery procedure for those in a truly digital-only environment to try.

It seems that the way TVGOS data is being inserted into the digital channels in some areas of the country may place DHGs in those areas into a state from which they cannot recover the channel lineup after a reset. This is not the case in all areas and perhaps, eventually, this problem will be corrected in the affected areas.

An SF area note: like others, my Sony has had no host channel since the weekend, but HAS been getting listings (probably from CBS 5.1, ever since I did the G*-test/leave unit on Friday night of last week), after PBS 9 stopped broadcasting TVGOS the previous Tuesday.

Others in this thread have mentioned finding out what the clock set channel on their Sony's was, and I HAD noticed that my "last clock set" was updating regularly, but had not gone searching for the clock set channel. I finally got around to finding that field in the diagnostic menus, and it's 0:29-0, which I interpret to be analog 29, and since 5.1 is 29.1 (according to an SF digital guide I have), I guess that's CBS analog 5.



The 29-0 is the digital station for 29.1 (or 5.1) the UHF carrier not the analog ch5 !!
I have the same thing for clock set.
Did another G*test when I got home tonight and now the clock is set right now.
I think one of two things are happening that prevent me from getting my channel lineup and guide data.
1. KPIX is NOT transmitting data other than guide data (I have no zip code or time zone packets).
2. My Sony has older firmware (not tvguide) of 1.2.06 that is causing an issue (why some people get one box to work but not the other ?).

Also after seeing the clock go to 29 I decided to tune to 29.1 (before remap to 5.1) and do another g*test (passed) and then VBI ch search 963 and shut off until tomorrow. I'm hoping the sony somehow does not understand the digital re-map of 29.1 to 5.1 and it will work this time around.... tomorrow, tomorrow....

My Pioneer still has no guide data so perhaps there are issues with KPIX for some devices ??

Todd

So I am becoming despondent of these things. It is becoming obvious that when something goes wrong, it goes wrong in different ways.

I visit my mother and to check on her 500.

First, the version 84 or 88 or whatever, in the download time page, is not a clue of anything. Her version is 88 and her Sony is not functioning properly.

The good news. It's usable. It has a correct clock and recordings can be set manually. That will now likely not be true soon, but for now I rejoice.

Now the strange news. No listings or ads. That not news.

It has a Host channel, same as the one that works on my 250, 14, and it passes the G-test. VBI packets at the rate of over 250 a minute.

BUT. You know where on the G-test screen there is a line for a series of numbers for both VBI and ATSC -well that line is BLANK.

On the screen that shows the Host channel, well the host channel shows as cable 14, good so far, but the VBI channel (which is simply the channel currently tuned to before entering the screens) well that only shows fffffff- no matter what channel is tuned.

So what does that mean? I don't remember anyone reporting that before.

First, did you see my post 14831 regarding the problem with your 500s?

Second, when you run a G* Test your VBI channel will be set to either ffffffff or fffffffd depending upon whether you get ---, 1023:65533, or the actual channel. If you tune to a different channel, the VBI channel value will be reset to an actual station.

I'm not exactly sure what to make of fox200's news from Macrovision, but if this statement is correct "TVGOS will work with any TVGOS product as long as it has an atsc tuner and slicer. Bottom line is it will work with the Sony." then I guess that's all we need to know. The problem is, every day the story changes...............

Anyway, as of this afternoon I now own three HDD500's. I completed a deal with another forum member a few days ago, and it arrived today. I have this one hooked up to cable-only for now, my others are hooked to OTA and cable. My host channel for my other two has been analog PBS, although I've run the G*test several times on my local CBS digital station (OTA) and been successful in aquiring listings quickly after spontaneous reboots. I noticed tonight however that the same CBS digital station over cable does not pass the G*test. I had thought that the general consensus was that OTA only people may have more trouble with these units after June 12th than cable people, but it looks like in my case the OTA station carries the VBI data but the same digital station on QAM does not. I've also noticed that in the few hours I've been playing with it, the clock hasn't set itself yet either. This is the longest that I've seen any of my units not have the correct time. It's about 11 hours and 16 minutes off. I've updated the Sony firmware from version .05 to .13, and the TVGOS software version was 8.06.44 already so I don't need to wait for updates to that. Hopefully tomorrow morning I'll have a correct clock and channel lineup.

I agree with what PhillyC, and Possumgirl. ImTheOne's DVR is cheating on it's digital host, with the much more attractive analog host, and he's the last to know. :p


You are a moron and haven't a clue what you are talking about. You either don't read or don't understand the posts you respond to and most of the advice you dispense is either off point or just plain wrong. Case in point, my recorder is not cheating or using an analog host unless I permit it to do so during testing. It is pathetic that you choose to attack me with no knowledge of what I am doing or proof to support your ridiculous claims.:p:p:p

Yesterday I predicted that after June 12, this board would be flooded with people having problems. I admit I was wrong. It seems the problems are already starting for a lot people, judging by the increased activity on this board.

Here's a strange update on my unit. It seems my unit (which is digital only), works great, until the host channel sets. Then the listings stop. That's right, as long as my host channel is blank, I get listings, but as soon as my host channel fills in, the listings stop. It has happened 3 times this week: Saturday my host set, and I didn't get listings Saturday night, or Sunday night. Monday I did a TV Guide/Exit reset. After that my host was blank, and I got listings Monday night, however my host channel set again Tuesday, and Tuesday night no listings. This morning I used the 'force host channel', to blank out my host (I'm not sure I can duplicate this though). Today while I was at work, my day 8 listings filled in. My host was still blank the last time I looked, and I hope to get listings tonight. I'm beginning to think there is something wrong with my zipcode that doesn't match some of the other data, so no downloads happen once my host channel sets.

Mark

Your recorder is cheating on you with an analog channel.

............. The problem most people here are having is with version 08.06.44, and what do you guys want us to do? Send money so you can figure out how to burn this buggy software into flash memory...

Obviously, since EVERYONE here is either running 8.06.44 or trying to navigate the update path to get to 8.06.44............... If your Sony is connected to an antenna or cable line, TVGOS is going to send you this version. You have no choice in the matter. So of course, most people that are having problems are having them with 8.06.44 :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Your recorder is cheating on you with an analog channel.

I wish, then all my problems would be solved.

Mark

You are a moron and haven't a clue what you are talking about. You either don't read or don't understand the posts you respond to and most of the advice you dispense is either off point or just plain wrong. Case in point, my recorder is not cheating or using an analog host unless I permit it to do so during testing. It is pathetic that you choose to attack me with no knowledge of what I am doing or proof to support your ridiculous claims.:p:p:p

Sorry, it was a joke. You've provided a lot of useful information here, and I have really benefitted from it. I have been guilty of posting the result of something I did, but then not being able to duplicate it later. I'll try to do better in the future.

Mark

Well I'll be damn......after taking the advice of many on here, I came home today and I finally have guide data! :D :cool:

But I saw that some channels on a few days still list no data, but I'm hoping those will fill in.

Lets see how long it lasts, hopefully this will work out in the end. BTW, my host channel is empty.

Thanks again everyone. :) :D

Well I'll be damn......after taking the advice of many on here, I came home today and I finally have guide data! :D :cool:

But I saw that some channels on a few days still list no data, but I'm hoping those will fill in.

Lets see how long it lasts, hopefully this will work out in the end. BTW, my host channel is empty.

Thanks again everyone. :) :D

Are you OTA only?
Is "only" Digital TVGuide available in your area? (no analogue TV Guide?)

ID#?
DL Version #?
sw version?

Thanks.

What bothers me (and no doubt a few others) is that the story that's been going around, (and still is) is that as soon as the TVGOS folks do "X" (the magical incantation that will cure all the ills of analog TVGOS devices with digital tuners), everything will start working normally again. But all analog service was scheduled to end on 17 Feb, and nobody knew it wasn't until a few weeks before. So why wasn't the TVGOS magical fix "X" rolled out prior to 17 Feb, and more importantly, why isn't it in place NOW? Is this ever going to happen? I guess we must put Macrovision into the same category as that million or so procrastinators for whom Congress had so much sympathy.

_________________________________________________________Pla n Ah
____________________________________________________________ ___e
____________________________________________________________ ____a
____________________________________________________________ ____d

Update:
NYC DMA
The two unit test:
In the beginning, both units had correct clocks but "no listings".
The upstairs unit was TVGOS reset and host channel searched. This morning, still off in time, and no listings.

Downstairs unit, correct time but no listings. Correctly recorded shows input by time and channel.

So far, if your unit has time, I'd use it as a VCR. I'm going to give the upstairs unit "the weekend" off and see what happens.

I guess we must put Macrovision into the same category as that million or so procrastinators for whom Congress had so much sympathy.

The fact that Macrovision has a brick wall up that doesn't allow customers to inform them of problems tells you a lot about the company. I wish they would be more open to getting **help** from customers. ISO-certified companies (wonder if they are one) are supposed to solicit customer feedback for product malfunctions and product improvement.

They don't consider us customers - they only consider equipment manufacturers as customers. Warped thinking. That's just like Happy-Lucky Electronics Co. considering Joe's Stereo Shop to be their customer instead of us.

Still trying to get them to recognize they have a major problem in the Toronto & Kitchener markets with lack of antenna channels (i.e.-all-cable lineup).

The fact that Macrovision has a brick wall up that doesn't allow customers to inform them of problems tells you a lot about the company. I wish they would be more open to getting **help** from customers. ISO-certified companies (wonder if they are one) are supposed to solicit customer feedback for product malfunctions and product improvement.

Still trying to get them to recognize they have a major problem in the Toronto & Kitchener markets with lack of antenna channels (i.e.-all-cable lineup).

That's funny ! Macrovision made it's fortune making sure you could not record from a VHS or DVD. They are the first purveyor of widespread DRM, a poison which has infested all later products. We've all lost the "record" input on our devices, and the wires/displays are no longer ours. Macrovision is NOT a consumer friendly company...they have been working against our interest since they were created. Customer Service is not part of Macrovision's business plan...unless the customer is a Studio.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16070467&postcount=14721
It would be great to be able to flash TVGOS V-8.06.44 into the DHG's, so that after a full factory reset 8.06.44 would be the starting software version the DHG would use to aquire the time, channel lineup, and program listings. No one seems willing to risk their own unit to test the "Flash" functions in the service menu. My thought was to do a group purchase of a unit on ebay for testing purposes, thereby spreading the risk if it becomes a brick. The window to try this is closing as June 12th approaches.That would/should apply to all TVGOS devices.

Well after being fully updated yesterday, Nothing new has happened, No guide data or grid this morning:mad:

First, did you see my post 14831 regarding the problem with your 500s?

I just saw it now. The two 500's are acting differently. The one I have at my home (next to the 250 that is functioning perfectly every day) seems to be occasionally - randomly-now getting listings and ads. When I turned it on last night it had data for next Thursday (possibly from the afternoon download). Unfortunately this morning it does not have ads or data for next Friday. I can't predict when and if it's going to work. The 500 my mother has is not downloading listings or ads at all.

As far as monitoring TimezonePkts, even if I knew and found the exact screen to which you refer, and knew how to monitor them, is it going to change anything or explain why it's having an issue when the 250 next to it is not. Can I do anything to effect TimezonePkts?

Second, when you run a G* Test your VBI channel will be set to either ffffffff or fffffffd depending upon whether you get ---, 1023:65533, or the actual channel. If you tune to a different channel, the VBI channel value will be reset to an actual station.

I fear I don't understand what you are saying. I have never in more then 3 years ever seen fffffff for the VBI channel. And again that is occurring only on the 500 in my mother's home.

They are in order if you change it from GMT to your time. Subtract 4 hours and convert from a 24 to a 12 hour clock.
For example, if you are on the East coast:
5:37 = 1:37 AM
17:57 = 1:57 PM
3:37 = 11:37 PM
.............................................
Is your clock correct? I ask because I just realized, my clock is correct, and my download times for the "81" download (on my 500) are exactly one hour off yours.
At
4:37 = 12:37 AM
16:57 = 12:57 PM
2:37 = 10:37 PMThe example that was used was not mine. It wasn't the best example.

Ok, let me re-ask the questions;
1. Does the 1st collumn represent the day? If so, what is what there are opnly three different numbers?
2. How about the 2nd collumn, what does that represnt?
3. Using this screen (mine), I should interpert the 1st four as (using a 5 hour offset considering the date);
7:31 = 2:31a,
11:41 = 6:41a,
14:16 = 9:46a,
18:46 = 1:46p

The example that was used was not mine. It wasn't the best example.

Ok, let me re-ask the questions;
1. Does the 1st collumn represent the day? If so, what is what?
2. How about the 2nd collumn, what does that represnt?

Well that's different, You have a ver. 136:eek:

Hmmm, Maybe I'm not fully up to date yet. I'm at ver. 92.

I wonder if this number is of any significance.:confused:

Are you OTA only?
Is "only" Digital TVGuide available in your area? (no analogue TV Guide?)

ID#?
DL Version #?
sw version?

Thanks.
I turned off my analog PBS channel from the +/- and TVGOS screens, so I don't know if that had anything to do with it or not.

OTA but I am able to get clear cable QAM channels, no analog cable channels.

The PBS here has gone digital TVGOS only, they've turned off the analog feed of TVGOS.

Whats the difference between DL and SW versions? I show 08.01.42/08.06.44

Thanks again

we are still awaiting corporate CBS to allow us to turn on the SCTE 127 data.Gee, do they have to raise their hand to go to the bathroom also? :rolleyes:Macrovision made it's fortune making sure you could not record from a VHS or DVD. They are the first purveyor of widespread DRM, a poison which has infested all later products. We've all lost the "record" input on our devices, and the wires/displays are no longer ours. Macrovision is NOT a consumer friendly company...they have been working against our interest since they were created. Customer Service is not part of Macrovision's business plan...unless the customer is a Studio.I second that!

Macrovision, Sony & M$: perfect bedfellows!
Whats' even worse are all the forum members here that support these huge corporations. :mad::mad:
Wake up and smell the roses, 30 years of deregulation (among other things) is what allowed all of this to happen (if you like it or not).

It is not just us. A quick check of the DTVPal DVR thread shows they are having their own version of TVGOS stupidity. One poster mentioned that the TVGOS equipment has had issues at the stations.

Why they can't just press release "it's going to not work for the next two weeks" is beyond me.

Instead, the Sony guys, the DTVPal thread, etc are all having the same basic conversation.

I turned off my analog PBS channel from the +/- and TVGOS screens, so I don't know if that had anything to do with it or not.

OTA but I am able to get clear cable QAM channels, no analog cable channels.

The PBS here has gone digital TVGOS only, they've turned off the analog feed of TVGOS.

Whats the difference between DL and SW versions? I show 08.01.42/08.06.44

Thanks again


Thanks ratpatrol, I got your PM too.

Ok, you have cable connected to the back of the Sony box as welll as antenna.

Also, thanks for the ID's, they appear to be totally regional - but mine have changed 3 times this week - a non issue for now.

I believe the version is the TimeZoneVersion. The two picture below were taken about? 18 hours apart. As of 8PM last night BOTH screens had updated to version 88.

If I understand correctly, the few that have things working are on 88; but one person had it working on 84? I think?

nascar24; That was a screen shot off my Mits TV, not the Sony since I don't want to f*ck with the DVR untill next month when out analog host goes dark since it is workjing fine now (knock on wood). I don't know if that would matter or not what device is used.

Videobruce, I feel cheated............I only got 88

Videobruce, is your Mits got Digital TV Guide DLs or analogue?

Anyway, as of this afternoon I now own three HDD500's. I completed a deal with another forum member a few days ago, and it arrived today. I have this one hooked up to cable-only for now, my others are hooked to OTA and cable. My host channel for my other two has been analog PBS, although I've run the G*test several times on my local CBS digital station (OTA) and been successful in aquiring listings quickly after spontaneous reboots. I noticed tonight however that the same CBS digital station over cable does not pass the G*test. I had thought that the general consensus was that OTA only people may have more trouble with these units after June 12th than cable people, but it looks like in my case the OTA station carries the VBI data but the same digital station on QAM does not. I've also noticed that in the few hours I've been playing with it, the clock hasn't set itself yet either. This is the longest that I've seen any of my units not have the correct time. It's about 11 hours and 16 minutes off. I've updated the Sony firmware from version .05 to .13, and the TVGOS software version was 8.06.44 already so I don't need to wait for updates to that. Hopefully tomorrow morning I'll have a correct clock and channel lineup.

Update:

As of this morning, on the 3rd DHG I still don't have the correct time, I don't have a channel list, and of course no listings. My other two DHG's and my V-9.x Mits TV (connected to OTA & cable) are updating fine. I also noticed this morning something that I never paid attention to before. My two older DHG's show 0:0-12 (analog PBS) as the host channel. This is OTA host if I'm not mistaken. The host is shown in my V-9.x Mits as 1:12-0. I'm assuming this is picking up analog PBS via OTA? The analog PBS station here broadcasts on ch-12 and the analog cable carries it as ch-12. The PBS digital channel broadcasts on ch-11, and goes by virtual 12.1 :confused:

I have full listings for today only. The other 7 days did not get anything. This is with Comcast CBS-HD 189 as host. FWIW, yesterday my timezone version was 84, while the version on the VBIDLSched screen was 88. Today they are both 92.

Since this is the first listings update of any kind in a week, I will run the G*Test and leave the unit on for the DL scheduled 20 minutes from now.

The wild card here is that CBS OTA analog restarted data transmission yesterday, so I don't know if my DVR was cheating on me during the night. :D

I have full listings for today only. The other 7 days did not get anything. This is with Comcast CBS-HD 189 as host. FWIW, yesterday my timezone version was 84, while the version on the VBIDLSched screen was 88. Today they are both 92.

Since this is the first listings update of any kind in a week, I will run the G*Test and leave the unit on for the DL scheduled 20 minutes from now.

The wild card here is that CBS OTA analog restarted data transmission yesterday, so I don't know if my DVR was cheating on me during the night. :D

Lots of varibles there; Comcast, CBS OTA analog, matched ver beyond 88 (now 92)...........did anyone mention sun spots?

Time to get out my aluminum foil hat that I used to wear in the early days when trying to get a digital signal with an indoor antenna...

Waterboarding has got nothing on owning one -or more- of these things when they don't work right.

Videobruce, I feel cheated............I only got 8888 what? :confused:

Mits isn't working with the digital host. the VBI test fails and the count is '0'.
The Sony passes and the packet count is 65 every 60 seconds.

88 what? :confused:



My fault, I guess.

Yesterday I mentioned that my working one had a version 88 in the download times screen while my not working one had version 84.

It has been proven that it doesn't matter what version you have as to whether you are getting listings or not.

Does anyone believe this is somehow a DST issue and that things may get better after the first Saturday in April - the day the Sony was built to recognize?

Videobruce, I feel cheated............I only got 88

Well Im up to 92 so I have a feeling its going to go higher now:confused::p

Does anyone believe this is somehow a DST issue and that things may get better after the first Saturday in April - the day the Sony was built to recognize?I have. That's when my problems started. But I am not holding my breath.

I am a product design engineer, and would love the specs on the data streams so I could build a device that takes the stream from a digital channel and outputs in in analog form. If someone could point to where I can find protocol information, I'll start looking into it. But I suspect all that information is not public, even in this IT era.

Still no joy getting a grid or a Host Chan for my DHG that reverted due to a power outage. Tried forcing a digital host, but could be doing something wrong as I don't know what to do for the part of the procedure that requires the grid.

The DHG that retained its grid, reset itself overnight and lost its clock, but was easily restored by a G* test, grid retained. Still a mystery where my RDRs are finding clock updates as the cable analog channel 9 registers no VBI activity during a G* test.

Big news is that the Comcast feed of KONG HD does show VBI activity. Have not seen an on cable Digital TVGOS host here before.

Could one of you on Seattle Comcast without a cable card run a G* test on channel 6 to see if that is my mystery clock source? My cable card maps 6 to a digital 480i feed.

I am a product design engineer, and would love the specs on the data streams so I could build a device that takes the stream from a digital channel and outputs in in analog form.

It is almost certain that my cable provider- Cablevision- is doing just that.

Although OTC CBS 2.1 is transmitting good VBI packets, they are not available on Cablevision's CBS digital feed.

Cablevision must be converting them to analog and running them on our TV scroll channel- 14.

The results are that of three DVR's, one is doing great, one is occasionally downloading listings and ads, and one isn't downloading anything. All pass VBI test. All have same host.

On another board someone with a TV with TVGOS also reports occasional downloads only.

One would conclude that even if you could convert the digital to analog you would have to have a better result then Cablevision.

Second night that a G* Test, unit left on CBS digital 705....no guide update.
My clock is right, and I have my grid. but I am missing the last 2 days of the guide. Did the same this am, will see if I get a download.

Cw

The HDD 250 I wiped yesterday (TVGOS Reset) and (find host channel) is now showing ads ! No grid listings yet.

Oddly, the time is still from the full reset (set to 12:00) and has not yet gone to "reality". I'm leaving it alone-if I got ads something is happening.


For now, I'm not touching the other HDD, the "do nothing and see" unit. If you have accurate time and can use manual timers, I'd not mess with the unit.

after many days of my host channel being blank...it has changed back to 0-2 (OTA), and I recieved listings for the first time in over a week.

Looks like they're back for now....

My unit was on standard time this morning and now is on DST.
Ray
PS as I have posted several times, even without the guide, the DVR is far superior to any VCR.[/QUOTE]

How long did it take for your clock to go to DST? I agree with you that the the DVR is far superior to any VCR, it is just that we are so used to the convenience of having the TV Guide. By the way if you do manual recording/s is there a way to edit the Title from "Unknown" I thought there was a way we could do this, but maybe I am thinking of my old LG.

1. Go buy Sunday newspaper so you have a printed TV Guide – Ours has “Comcast” printed on it sense they own everything now.

2. Have wife circle all the shows you want recorded for the upcoming week.

3. With your Sony DVR and TV “on” – just hit the “record” button on the remote – that is the red button, if it has any red left on it; otherwise just guess. Just enter all the dates, times, channels; just like the ole time VCRs

4. WaLa, you have a recorded schedule.

You should contact Sony 800-222-7669.

You should be able to get through first tier support and to a “Product Specialist”.

You can give them any short specific particulars about your specific environment; i.e. City, No Grid, No Listings, Correct Time (or not) with Ads, etc.

And the most important thing to convey:

Be certain they have “your email address” so that you can be notified of the upcoming “firmware” fix as soon as it becomes available.

Wouldn't it cost several times the price of the DVR plus 5+ months of your time to do a project like that, even if you did have full specs?LOL. I asked for specifications, not a debate. I do projects like this all the time (have for decades). I can have a prototype up in 30-45 days.

You can bet that the specs are closely guarded and that the data is encrypted, as there's nothing beyond these measures to prevent unlicensed equipment from receiving and using the data. But given the age of the technology, I'd guess that it probably isn't implemented all that securely and could be figured out by someone really determined. If that ever happens, the floodgates will open with cheap DVRs from China that will work until TVGOS figures out ways to thwart them...I'm not talking about using the licensed technology (TVGuide) illegally. I already purchased a product which is licensed to use TVGoS, as did all of you in this forum. All I want to do is create a path to keep the product working in the digital world once the analog world dies. If the device can be built at a reasonable cost, I'd make them available.

[After a couple of days and nothing, I did a Tvguide reset last night followed immediately by G-test on CBS 5.1 (SF bay area). The unit passed the VBI testing and ran for almost 12 minutes with VBI increments up to over 1000.
I then checked status 753... and saw I had already updated to verson 08.05.40 !!
The clock had set but was 1 hour slow.
Did the VBI search channel for about 1 minute and shut it off. This morning I'm up to 08.06.44 but time still off and nothing else (no ch setup or listings).
I still think the major issue is with the CBS digital broadcast ? Note: I also ran a G-test on several analog stations before the reset including analog CBS 5 and none had VBI data !!.
Reason I think it is with the CBS station is that my pioneer plasma (with version 9 Tvgos) is also not getting any guide data since they shut off PBS analog last week !!!


The 29 is the digital station for 29.1 (or 5.1) the UHF carrier not the analog ch5 !!
I have the same thing for clock set.
Did another G*test when I got home tonight and now the clock is set right now.
I think one of two things are happening that prevent me from getting my channel lineup and guide data.
1. KPIX is NOT transmitting data other than guide data
2. My Sony has older firmware (not tvguide) of 1.2.06 that is causing an issue (why some people get one box to work but not the other ?).

Also after seeing the clock go to 29 I decided to tune to 29.1 (before remap to 5.1) and do another g*test (passed) and then VBI ch search 963 and shut off until tomorrow. I'm hoping the sony somehow does not understand the digital re-map of 29.1 to 5.1 and it will work this time around....
My Pioneer still has no guide data so perhaps there are issues with KPIX for some devices ??

Still no channel lineup or listings this morning but my Pioneer did fill out the listings (and shows CBS digital as the host) !!
I had high hopes that switching to the UHF channel 29 that transmits the digital CBS 5.1 would work but not yet.
The clock seems to be locked on 29.1 and it still passes VBI data but I need a channel setup first..
Anyone in the SF Bay Area that has this working from a reset, please post your Sony firmware version (not TV guide) since this still may be an issue why some boxes work and others do not when connected to the same source ??

Todd

I sure wish we could come up with a way to learn more about these functions. I can understand that no one wants to risk turning their precious HDDxxx into a boat anchor (certainly not me :p). But there are a number of HDD250's on ebay right now. If we could get 20 of us to put up $20 each, we could collectively buy one of these and have it shipped to one of us for testing. (I would nominate Marc Fontana or ImTheOne). After the testing is completed, the names of the 20 (suckers) could be put in a hat and one of us could assume ownership, or it could be resold on ebay and refunds issued from the proceeds. All of this assuming it doesn't end up as the proverbial boat anchor, in which case we would each be out only $20. :(
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was surprised at the number of HDD250's on sale right now. If I can get one for about $250 I'll do the "start from scratch" and try to save the latest software to flash. True, I'm only raw cable, but if I can find an OTA signal, I'll do that too. My fully functioning HDD250 is happy for now, but that may be a fleeting joy from what I read here.

I hate to ask, but what menu option gets me to the commit/save to flash?

How long did it take for your clock to go to DST? I agree with you that the the DVR is far superior to any VCR, it is just that we are so used to the convenience of having the TV Guide. By the way if you do manual recording/s is there a way to edit the Title from "Unknown" I thought there was a way we could do this, but maybe I am thinking of my old LG.

It changed to DST between 2 am and 8 am, with unit in standby. Manual recordings are stuck with Unknown title but unlike VCR, each recording has date time and channel, which is very help in determining what the program is.
Ray

My fault, I guess.

Yesterday I mentioned that my working one had a version 88 in the download times screen while my not working one had version 84.

It has been proven that it doesn't matter what version you have as to whether you are getting listings or not.

Who proved that? I don't remember anyone proving that version 84 still worked after the version number increased.

Anyway, the fact that you are on Timezone Version 84 and everyone else is now on 92 indicates that you are not getting time zone packets and may not be getting other information. You might try doing the following:
1. Wait until there is a scheduled ID70 download
2, Tune to the station that has TVGOS data
3. Run the G* Test and wait until the VBI counts start to increase (don't worry if it says VBI Test: FAIL) then exit the test
4. Tune to a different station
5. Tune back to the station you just tested
6. Enter the 753... information screens
7. Go to the Section Other-Clocks 1 screen and see if your Timezone Version is still 84
8. Go to the Section ATSC-ATSC Slicer screen and see if the TVG field is increasing
9. Go to the Section Reception-VBI Stats screen and see it the listing-related counts increase
10. On the Section Reception-VBI Stats screen, note the TimezonePkts count
11. Once or twice a day check the TimezonePkts count to see if it has increased

BTW, (I forgot and am too lazy to go back and look) is your host channel still blank and have you tried issuing a 963214785 command?

I am a product design engineer, and would love the specs on the data streams so I could build a device that takes the stream from a digital channel and outputs in in analog form. If someone could point to where I can find protocol information, I'll start looking into it. But I suspect all that information is not public, even in this IT era.

Can you spell P-R-O-P-R-I-E-T-A-R-Y.:)

I hate to ask, but what menu option gets me to the commit/save to flash?

There is no menu option per se. You enter these commands in the same manner as the 753... and 963... commands. Go to Setup on the Menu Bar, scroll down to the first entry but don't press select, then enter the command code. There are 66 unpublished commands some of which correspond to actual menu commands.

You should contact Sony 800-222-7669.

You should be able to get through first tier support and to a “Product Specialist”.

You can give them any short specific particulars about your specific environment; i.e. City, No Grid, No Listings, Correct Time (or not) with Ads, etc.

And the most important thing to convey:

Be certain they have “your email address” so that you can be notified of the upcoming “firmware” fix as soon as it becomes available.


Many have been talking about the number of units on ebay, and yes there are quite a few. I am surprised the prices are so high.

The longer it takes Sony to get new firmware, the lower the prices will be on these units. If new firmware is not available the last two weeks of June, expect the price to be, $10?

Basically, these boxes are currently boat anchors (or bricks or whatever), only a few function with a dwindling source of reliable TV Guide sources.

Sony is aware of the problem. They have told me they are working on a firmware correction – no set timeline; but basically the more that call and get on the list – the faster the response could be.

There are dozens of items to be corrected in a firmware fix for these units:

1. Strip out the “analogue hunt” for stations that would supply TV Guide – it is no longer needed and only makes the unit more complex than it needs to be. As an option make the “digital hunt” the priority.

2. Provide for a “positive lock” on the Digital host (OTA or Cable)

3. Enable the ability to initiate a full factory reset, without the dozens of interim patches – which tend to lock up the machine.

4. Make the unit less susceptible to lock-ups from TV Guide mis-steps on patches and downloads.

I was surprised at the number of HDD250's on sale right now. If I can get one for about $250 I'll do the "start from scratch" and try to save the latest software to flash. True, I'm only raw cable, but if I can find an OTA signal, I'll do that too. My fully functioning HDD250 is happy for now, but that may be a fleeting joy from what I read here.

I hate to ask, but what menu option gets me to the commit/save to flash?

See this post. You get to these just like you do the 753159852 menu to run a G*test, except that they are each independent command codes (just single items, no menu). :) Good luck, and let us know how it turns out. :eek: If successful, you could be elected Thread President :D If unsuccessful, maybe you could become a Bricklayer? :D :D :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14527798&postcount=12262

See this post. You get to these just like you do the 753159852 menu to run a G*test, except that they are each independent command codes (just single items, no menu). :) Good luck, and let us know how it turns out. :eek: If successful, you could be elected Thread President

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14527798&postcount=12262

What you posted is correct if you change the "menu to run a G*test" to "command". The G* Test is run from the Menu, Screen Mode, 9012 menu. See my post a couple of entries above.

Update:

As of this morning, on the 3rd DHG I still don't have the correct time, I don't have a channel list, and of course no listings. My other two DHG's and my V-9.x Mits TV (connected to OTA & cable) are updating fine. I also noticed this morning something that I never paid attention to before. My two older DHG's show 0:0-12 (analog PBS) as the host channel. This is OTA host if I'm not mistaken. The host is shown in my V-9.x Mits as 1:12-0. I'm assuming this is picking up analog PBS via OTA? The analog PBS station here broadcasts on ch-12 and the analog cable carries it as ch-12. The PBS digital channel broadcasts on ch-11, and goes by virtual 12.1 :confused:

As of this afternoon, still no correct clock and still no lineup on the 3rd DHG. I'm beginning to think that there is no TVGOS data available on Charter in my area. My other two DHG's and my Mits have never been connected to cable-only. I did have one connected to OTA-only for a while, and it still received data. I'm going to disconnect my Mits (V-9.x) from the antenna and make it cable-only for a few days to see what happens with it, before I try anything else with the cable-only DHG.

I did notice something that surprised me. Last night after I did the "G*Factory Reset" (the command above the G*test), my TVGOS version showed as 08.01.42/08.06.44/00.00.00. I thought that it would only show 08.01.42 with the others set to zeros after the reset? :confused:


Edit: Well, scratch the idea of disconnecting the cable line from the Mits. I went and did it, but then turned on the set to see what my "starting point" was. The guide on the Mits was "no listings" today. My other two DHG's have full listings. Note that the Mits normall only has 1 day of listings, since it's not a recorder there's no need to know whats coming on next week. Maybe it really is (was) getting listings from cable (1:12-0) as I had noted earlier. And maybe the cable coincidentally stopped sending TVGOS data last night? I know the Mits had listings last night because I saw them.

What you posted is correct if you change the "menu to run a G*test" to "command". The G* Test is run from the Menu, Screen Mode, 9012 menu. See my post a couple of entries above.

Sorry, I can't even remember what day it is sometimes. :o

Mine kept the 8.06.44 version as well after performing a G* Factory Reset. I had to do this about a month and a half ago due to lockup issues on a 250 and a 500.

I will probably be having to do it once more this weekend as both units are experiencing the lockup issue again. I had a blank host channel when the analog TVGOS data ceased in Dallas late last week. I was missing guide data, so I ran the G* Test and everything worked fine, the guide populated, even though the host still showed blank. The lockups started two days ago when both units showed 0:19.0 as my host, which is what digital CBS really is in Dallas. I'm OTA only.

Hopefully everything will wake up again.

Does anyone believe this is somehow a DST issue and that things may get better after the first Saturday in April - the day the Sony was built to recognize?

Mine (LA OTA) has worked fine through the DST change including having the correct clock and listings at all times. So, my answer is NO.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the Sony was built to recognize the first Saturday in April. It's probably handled by TVGOS transmitting an offset from GMT that's different for DST. In any case, it's almost certainly not locked into the Sony (even as residual program/data).

LOL. I asked for specifications, not a debate. I do projects like this all the time (have for decades). I can have a prototype up in 30-45 days.

I'm not talking about using the licensed technology (TVGuide) illegally. I already purchased a product which is licensed to use TVGoS, as did all of you in this forum. All I want to do is create a path to keep the product working in the digital world once the analog world dies. If the device can be built at a reasonable cost, I'd make them available.

I think most of the data is somewhere on the internet. A signal generator that includes XDS time data costs several thousands USD. If you make just that and could sell it for under $100 I would buy it. That would give me a clock for two VCRs, two DVD recorders, and two DVR's. Drive it from windows through a USB or serial port. Low power FM transmitters are real cheap kits. I built one years ago. There is a diag screen that shows XDS packets on the HDD250. Having a clock is better than not having a clock. I believe that ABC is still sending time signals, since my LG found a clock signal somehow after its UPS failed two weeks ago. It might have been able to get time from TVGOS, but V7 doesn't know digital. Sorry, rambling. Anyhow, you build it, I'll buy it.

Sony is aware of the problem. They have told me they are working on a firmware correction – no set timeline; but basically the more that call and get on the list – the faster the response could be.

There are dozens of items to be corrected in a firmware fix for these units:

1. Strip out the “analogue hunt” for stations that would supply TV Guide – it is no longer needed and only makes the unit more complex than it needs to be. As an option make the “digital hunt” the priority.

2. Provide for a “positive lock” on the Digital host (OTA or Cable)

3. Enable the ability to initiate a full factory reset, without the dozens of interim patches – which tend to lock up the machine.

4. Make the unit less susceptible to lock-ups from TV Guide mis-steps on patches and downloads.

From what I've learned reading AVS and other forums is that version 8 TVGOS works pretty much the same regardless of what CE product uses that version. The first 3 items on your list appear to be Guide issues, not just specific to Sony. The 4th item may be Sony-specific. :confused:

I did notice something that surprised me. Last night after I did the "G*Factory Reset" (the command above the G*test), my TVGOS version showed as 08.01.42/08.06.44/00.00.00. I thought that it would only show 08.01.42 with the others set to zeros after the reset? :confused:



I don't know when this changed, but now when you do a G* Factory Reset, everything except the software is reset. If you do it a second time, then the software is reset to 08.01.42/00.00.00.

Who proved that? I don't remember anyone proving that version 84 still worked after the version number increased.


BTW, (I forgot and am too lazy to go back and look) is your host channel still blank and have you tried issuing a 963214785 command?

Let me remind you that I have three of these units.

Considering that all of them now show version 92, yet their status:

One is perfect
One gets periodic downloads of listings and ads
One get nothing

remains mostly the same, it seems clear that the version is not an issue. If I remember others with up to date versions are also having trouble.

Yes. The one that showed no VBI channel, did show it today. Still doesn't download succesfully anything.

On the one that downloads periodically. It seems to not want to use the nighttime download. Every morning when I check the eighth day listing is empty. Once or twice it did show ads. However, over the last couple of day it has shown eighth day listing later when I turned it on in the evening. So one or both of the daytime downloads is doing something.

Before I turn off this one I repeat the [passing] G-test on the host channel and then turn the unit off. I don't know if that is making any difference in making any download more likely to be successful.

1. Strip out the “analogue hunt” for stations that would supply TV Guide – it is no longer needed and only makes the unit more complex than it needs to be. As an option make the “digital hunt” the priority.

2. Provide for a “positive lock” on the Digital host (OTA or Cable)




These two would not be advantages for those of us who are and will be getting data from a cable company which is converting the digital to analog signal for an analog host channel.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the Sony was built to recognize the first Saturday in April.


The Guide software had to be updated to the notorious 08.06.44 when Congress changed the DST date after these things were manufactured. Also when we started getting ads.

One of my units is also functioning perfectly. That doesn't mean DST is not the issue with the other two. We (many users) seem to always have some problem or another around the time they change the clocks.

Hi,
I have the DHGH500

For those around Chicago FWIW.

2 500's - OTA only

1st machine switched to 0-2 from no host, clock set is 2-1, some of the listings for day 7 are gone but the clock is fine. I'll just leave it on set to 2-1 overnight as that has always filled in all listings.

2nd machine finally is back fully after a bonehead "Reset to Factory Default" and soft reset.
CBS 0-2 analog finally restarted sending data which got me the clock, ads, and guide.
I think the sw had already update to 44 with digital though because 0-2 showed no VBI data after several tests and the sw 44 was already there.

Since I usually don't program recordings for more than 3 days in advance I'm not going to sweat it if it loses day 7 or 8.
I'll just leave it on set to 2-1 or 3-1 as I've done with the other machine.

Also, both machines now show 2-1 as "2-1 WBBMDT" not as different callouts as mentioned before the recovery.

Since I have a combination DVD/VHS I think I'll record a couple of nights worth of data on the VHS from 0-2 just incase.

Sorry about that, got a little excited. I lost my listings about two weeks ago. I finally did a g test. know I am getting something on digital 7 on whidbey island. left it on for three days. first i GOT A CLOCK. one hour late, finally I got correct time after two days. Nothing in listings. ok where do we go from here. I plan on calling Sony Monday about this. Just my input. I am in Langley, WA.
Thanks for all the input. Without that I would have nothing.

Ralph
:)

For those around Chicago FWIW.

1st machine switched to 0-2 from no host, clock set is 2-1, some of the listings for day 7 are gone but the clock is fine. I'll just leave it on set to 2-1 overnight as that has always filled in all listings.

Strange that I am unable to do that with OTA 2.1 or the cable version of CBS-HD. As noted earlier, I got today's listings ONLY overnight with unit off. It was on all day today with the G*Test running and got nothing.

I think I'm going to have to take a chance on a soft reset in case some odd glitch is causing my loss of G*Test download ability.

No matter what I do in NJ I still have a blank host channel and thus, no channel lineup. I tried digital WCBS on Comcast cable for several days but no host channel. I connected my 500 to an outside antenna that receives digital KYW(CBS Philadelphia) last night. I get over 60 packets a minute but after 20 hours with the 500 off still no host channel
Appears that both NY and Philly are not providing the necessary data.

Thursday my DHG-HDD500 lost the time of day and recorded the wrong programs. Checking 753 today, Friday, I find that 08.06.44 is gone and replaced by: 00.00.00 I had no power interuptions and did no manual resets.

I'm in a digital only situation and had been using manual timers for my programs, since I cannot get a lineup.

I'm repeating the G*-and-leave-on procedure to get the software update, like I did last week. After that, I should be able to get the correct time again.

If this thing is going to reset itself once a week because of the missing analog host, that will not be acceptable.

Note: I use a UHF OTA antenna. This gets me all my digital channels, but I cannot get VBI off of a very noisy analog OTA CBS station (5). Cable has VBI on both 5.1 (CBS) and 2.1 (FOX). Last time, I got my software update off of the cable 5.1. This time I am trying to get it from cable 2.1.

Thanks ratpatrol, I got your PM too.

Ok, you have cable connected to the back of the Sony box as welll as antenna.

Also, thanks for the ID's, they appear to be totally regional - but mine have changed 3 times this week - a non issue for now.

I believe the version is the TimeZoneVersion. The two picture below were taken about? 18 hours apart. As of 8PM last night BOTH screens had updated to version 88.

If I understand correctly, the few that have things working are on 88; but one person had it working on 84? I think?
Just checked again, still getting guide data. I've got TZV 92 here. Host channel is still blank.

Thanks again for your help.

[QUOTE=fox200] Today I got a second call and email from george at TVGOS. All good news and answers the question for the S.F. market (see email copy). TVGOS will work with any TVGOS product as long as it has an atsc tuner and slicer. Bottom line is it will work with the Sony.They just have not turned it on yet in S.F. Here's what was sent regarding KPIX.

Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support
center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

We will assume your issue has been resolved if we do not hear from you
within 48 hours.

Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (George Piandes) - 03/19/2009 01:03 PM
Hello Collier,

As per our phone conversation, KPIX (CBS) has our new digital equipment installed, but we are still awaiting corporate CBS to allow us to turn on the SCTE 127 data. I am attaching a word document for collecting diagnostics. If you would like to follow the instructions to collect the diags and fill out the doc. and send it back, we would be interested to see what data your guide is seeing.
Thank you.

QUOTE]
Any update on this ?? Perhaps the word doc could be posted and everyone could fill out and send back ?? If anyone has been following my saga the last few days, I now have Ads but still no ch listings or guide data.

Todd

re: One works while another doesn't...

I think you might find some things by comparing;

Your area, is your host station transmitting valid TVGOS data of the version you need? i.e. someone in your area with a DHG that is NOT having problems
Number of channels turned on in the TVGOS channel editor (diags Section Memory-Channels, cut to minimum needed)
Available memory in your unit (diags Section Memory)
Sony firmware version


I've got to say it's sometimes quite amusing reading this thread concerning TVGOS issues.
I liken it to someone trying to break a light bulb 50 yards away by throwing a rock at it.

The light bulb is in a house of mirrors.
The house of mirrors is dark.
The light bulb turns on for one second every minute, most of the time.
The light bulb moves randomly while it's turned off.

Some people here are trying to map out the house of mirrors and use night vision.

I'm repeating the G*-and-leave-on procedure to get the software update, like I did last week. After that, I should be able to get the correct time again.

Note: I use a UHF OTA antenna. This gets me all my digital channels, but I cannot get VBI off of a very noisy analog OTA CBS station (5). Cable has VBI on both 5.1 (CBS) and 2.1 (FOX). Last time, I got my software update off of the cable 5.1. This time I am trying to get it from cable 2.1.
Tune to OTA channel 29.1 (CBS digital before mapdown to 5.1) and run G*test. It should paas first 3 tests and go for 10-15 minutes with about 1000 VBI increments.
If not your UHF signal (not CBS 5) is too weak.
What firmware does the sony have (not TV guide) under MENU> {Preferences} {System} {System Menu} ??
Mine is 1.2.06

Todd

Mine kept the 8.06.44 version as well after performing a G* Factory Reset.If you do the G* Factory Reset TWICE in a row, it will set the patch level back to 0.

For those around Chicago FWIW.

2 500's - OTA only

1st machine switched to 0-2 from no host, clock set is 2-1, some of the listings for day 7 are gone but the clock is fine. I'll just leave it on set to 2-1 overnight as that has always filled in all listings.

2nd machine finally is back fully after a bonehead "Reset to Factory Default" and soft reset.
CBS 0-2 analog finally restarted sending data which got me the clock, ads, and guide.
I think the sw had already update to 44 with digital though because 0-2 showed no VBI data after several tests and the sw 44 was already there.

Since I usually don't program recordings for more than 3 days in advance I'm not going to sweat it if it loses day 7 or 8.
I'll just leave it on set to 2-1 or 3-1 as I've done with the other machine.

Also, both machines now show 2-1 as "2-1 WBBMDT" not as different callouts as mentioned before the recovery.

Since I have a combination DVD/VHS I think I'll record a couple of nights worth of data on the VHS from 0-2 just incase.

Strange that I am unable to do that with OTA 2.1 or the cable version of CBS-HD. As noted earlier, I got today's listings ONLY overnight with unit off. It was on all day today with the G*Test running and got nothing.

I think I'm going to have to take a chance on a soft reset in case some odd glitch is causing my loss of G*Test download ability.

I have three 500's in Chicago on OTA only. I have not messed around with trying to force digital hosts, but have been skimming the thread all along. I don't even know how to view the host channel. I say this so you know my experience level.

I noticed on Monday night that there were no listings for Wednesday or subsequent days on any of the three units. I performed a soft reset on two of the units Wednesday evening, since there were no listings on any of the three. I had no listings on Thursday. Today, I have listings for Friday, Saturday, Tuesday, and Friday (Days 1,2,5,7).

If memory serves, that might be indicative of a "normal" download schedule, with the remainder of the days filling in tonight.

I don't know if this helps or not, but there it is.

Mark

Strange that I am unable to do that with OTA 2.1 or the cable version of CBS-HD. As noted earlier, I got today's listings ONLY overnight with unit off. It was on all day today with the G*Test running and got nothing.

I think I'm going to have to take a chance on a soft reset in case some odd glitch is causing my loss of G*Test download ability.

If you're going to do that you will lose the sw 44 version.
I wouldn't do it if you have the clock with correct time, ads, and a grid.
If they shut down again you will be SOL for a lot longer.

If you do it be sure you're getting good VBI for 0-2 first. Turn if off and leave it for at least 12 hours.

For me, once I establish time, ads, and grid with some listings, running the G*test and leaving it on, set to 2-1, has always filled in all listings over night.
I usually lose day 8 about every 2 to 3 days and regain it with this process.

[QUOTE=fox200] Today I got a second call and email from george at TVGOS. All good news and answers the question for the S.F. market (see email copy). TVGOS will work with any TVGOS product as long as it has an atsc tuner and slicer. Bottom line is it will work with the Sony.They just have not turned it on yet in S.F. Here's what was sent regarding KPIX.

Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support
center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

We will assume your issue has been resolved if we do not hear from you
within 48 hours.

Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (George Piandes) - 03/19/2009 01:03 PM
Hello Collier,

As per our phone conversation, KPIX (CBS) has our new digital equipment installed, but we are still awaiting corporate CBS to allow us to turn on the SCTE 127 data. I am attaching a word document for collecting diagnostics. If you would like to follow the instructions to collect the diags and fill out the doc. and send it back, we would be interested to see what data your guide is seeing.
Thank you.

QUOTE]
Any update on this ?? Perhaps the word doc could be posted and everyone could fill out and send back ?? If anyone has been following my saga the last few days, I now have Ads but still no ch listings or guide data.

Todd

Todd,
Just have to be patient. Your guide will work just fine with the Sony. George at TVGOS was not sure why CBS Corp has not turned on SCTE 127 data.
He did speculate testing.
I filled out the document about the stats in the 753 menu and emailed it back to him. Don't want to give out the document and email here.

These two would not be advantages for those of us who are and will be getting data from a cable company which is converting the digital to analog signal for an analog host channel.

Except that the cable will be deleting the analogue portion in time........plus they are to be carrying the digital TV Guide - so far of course "every" market is different.

The example that was used was not mine. It wasn't the best example.

Ok, let me re-ask the questions; image here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=137292&d=1237554632)
1. Does the 1st collumn represent the day? If so, what is what there are opnly three different numbers?
2. How about the 2nd collumn, what does that represnt?
3. Using this screen (mine), I should interpert the 1st four as (using a 5 hour offset considering the date);
7:31 = 2:31a,
11:41 = 6:41a,
14:16 = 9:46a,
18:46 = 1:46pColumn 1 [DLID] (like 6) is the type of data in the download (Listings, Ads, etc.)
Column 2 [StID] is the Host Station ID that hosts the download.
Column 3 [Start] is the download start time in UTC time.
Column 4 [Dur] is the duration of the download in minutes.
Column 5 [Qual] appears to be a Quality indicator?
Column 6 [Type] (like 1) is the type of data in the download (Listings, Ads, etc.)
Column 7 [Ver] appears to be Version?
Column 8 [Flags] appears to be Flags?

Your device will attempt to download any DLID type it needs, but it only needs one successful download of that type until it determines it needs that type again, which is usually daily. (Anyone seen DLID's besides 27, 70, 81 & 97 ?). There are one or more StID's in your DLID Schedule that can be used. Once the system gets the type of download it needs, it no longer looks at the rest of the schedule for that type until it needs it again.

Appears things are changing with digital and the new firmware (house of mirrors and blinking light bulb (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16089554)).

With analog, you could look at the following diags screens and deduce the following;

Reset Info-Statistics
- Next Wakeup - wakeup and think about downloading
VBI Data-VBI Info
- DLTimer - next scheduled download time
- LastDLStart - Last time it attempted a download
- LastDLEnd - Last successful download ended
VBI Data-VBIDL
- Column LstSuStrt - Last successful download start time

DISCLAIMER: This is personal knowledge based on years of research as to why the friggin' device didn't work as advertised.

It sounds like there are mixed results of users being able to get a channel grid after a reset when only digital host stations are available. Has anyone experimented with obtaining a channel grid using a VHS recording of a analog channel passing VBI?

Ok, let me re-ask the questions;
1. Does the 1st collumn represent the day? If so, what is what there are opnly three different numbers?
2. How about the 2nd collumn, what does that represnt?
3. Using this screen (mine), I should interpert the 1st four as (using a 5 hour offset considering the date);
7:31 = 2:31a,
11:41 = 6:41a,
14:16 = 9:46a,
18:46 = 1:46p


And to make things more confusing, I should point out that all the Download Schedule pictures that videobruce, and HoustonPerson posted only show the analog download schedules. Here are the first 2 screens of my Download Schedule screen. Notice the digital schedule is 24 lines long, as opposed to 11 lines for the analog schedules. There is 1 digital schedule, and 5 analog schedules on my DHG. I believe you are both trying to get digital downloads, so you would need the digital schedule. I don't know where in this process a digital schedule would appear, but it might need to show up before you get any further. It might appear simultaneously with a channel lineup. ImTheOne, or bwall23 might be able to explain when the digital schedule should show up. Sorry, I know this just totally confuses the issue more.

Mark

My host channel for my other two has been analog PBS, although I've run the G*test several times on my local CBS digital station (OTA) and been successful in aquiring listings quickly after spontaneous reboots. I noticed tonight however that the same CBS digital station over cable does not pass the G*test.

From http://laurenstephens.net/uploads/3d927cc0e5.pdf

"VBI data stream
The VBI data stream carries SCTE 127 data, also known as “VBI in MPEG.” This provides a mechanism for the carriage of Vertical Blanking Interval (VBI) data or legacy data services. All encoded VBI fields are contained in a single stream, so there is only one SCTE 127 stream per MPEG program. If a broadcaster or MVPD chooses to encode, for example, Nielsen AMOL or North American Broadcast Teletext Specification (NABTS) data into the stream, the encoding device will add these services to a single SCTE 127 stream. Cable operator video encoders have the capability to remove an SCTE 127 stream. Video encoders must be enabled to generate an SCTE 127 data stream."

It sounds like there are mixed results of users being able to get a channel grid after a reset when only digital host stations are available. Has anyone experimented with obtaining a channel grid using a VHS recording of a analog channel passing VBI?

Yes. Someone posted a long way back that this was done successfully.

And to make things more confusing, I should point out that all the Download Schedule pictures that videobruce, and HoustonPerson posted only show the analog download schedules. Here are the first 2 screens of my Download Schedule screen. Notice the digital schedule is 24 lines long, as opposed to 11 lines for the analog schedules. There is 1 digital schedule, and 5 analog schedules on my DHG. I believe you are both trying to get digital downloads, so you would need the digital schedule. I don't know where in this process a digital schedule would appear, but it might need to show up before you get any further. It might appear simultaneously with a channel lineup. ImTheOne, or bwall23 might be able to explain when the digital schedule should show up. Sorry, I know this just totally confuses the issue more.

MarkFWIW, I have 2 analog StID's and 1 Digital.
Here's my schedule from Sacramento, CA. (UTC is UTC time for start of download and column 'D/A' is my marking for Digital/Analog host channels)

UTC DLID MIN TYPE D/A StID Qual Version Flags
0531-0621 81 50 3 A 2554 & 2712 6 92 0xE0
0626-0726 27 60 4 A 2554 & 2712 6 92 0xE0
0731-0821 81 50 3 A 2554 & 2712 6 92 0xE0
0751-0811 81 20 3 D 5844 6 92 0x68
0816-0836 27 20 4 D 5844 6 92 0x68
0826-0926 27 60 4 A 2554 & 2712 6 92 0xE0
0841-0901 81 20 3 D 5844 6 92 0x68
0906-0926 27 20 4 D 5844 6 92 0x68
0931-1001 70 30 2 D 5844 6 92 0xE8
0931-1231 70 180 2 A 2554 & 2712 6 92 0xE8
1006-1106 97 60 6 D 5844 6 92 0x68
1111-1141 70 30 2 D 5844 6 92 0xE8
1146-1246 97 60 6 D 5844 6 92 0x68
1236-1336 27 60 4 A 2554 & 2712 6 92 0xE0
1251-1311 27 20 4 D 5844 6 92 0x68
1316-1346 70 30 2 D 5844 6 92 0xE8
1341-1641 70 180 2 A 2554 & 2712 6 92 0xE8
1351-1451 97 60 6 D 5844 6 92 0x68
1456-1526 70 30 2 D 5844 6 92 0xE8
1531-1631 97 60 6 D 5844 6 92 0x68
1636-1656 81 20 3 D 5844 6 92 0x68
1646-1946 70 180 2 A 2554 & 2712 6 92 0xE8
1701-1731 70 30 2 D 5844 6 92 0xE8
1736-1836 97 60 6 D 5844 6 92 0x68
1841-1911 70 30 2 D 5844 6 92 0xE8
1916-2016 97 60 6 D 5844 6 92 0x68
1951-2041 81 50 3 A 2554 & 2712 6 92 0xE0
2021-2041 81 20 3 D 5844 6 92 0x68
2046-2116 70 30 2 D 5844 6 92 0xE8
2046-2346 70 180 2 A 2554 & 2712 6 92 0xE8
2121-2221 97 60 6 D 5844 6 92 0x68
2226-2256 70 30 2 D 5844 6 92 0xE8
2301-0001 97 60 6 D 5844 6 92 0x68
0006-0026 27 20 4 D 5844 6 92 0x68
0046-0146 27 60 4 A 2554 & 2712 6 92 0xE0

It sounds like there are mixed results of users being able to get a channel grid after a reset when only digital host stations are available.


I'm not sure there are mixed results (just bad results). Has anyone (digital only) in the past week, or two been able to recover from a reset that wiped out your channel lineup? I know the last time I reset mine, it got stuck waiting on the channel lineup.


Has anyone experimented with obtaining a channel grid using a VHS recording of a analog channel passing VBI?

Good question, I know people have talked about doing that, but I'm not sure anyone actually has.

Mark

Has anyone experimented with obtaining a channel grid using a VHS recording of a analog channel passing VBI?

Using VHS recordings of the TVGOS download segments; I've recovered from a complete factory reset in a few hours. My test concluded once the Sony was updated with TVGOS ver 8.05.4, had a new lineup and was receiving listings again. I'm certain this is an option for the short term at least. Who knows how long though… the VHS tape being static and just about everything else being dynamic.

Some people here are trying to be proactive and determine how to recover from a complete reset in a digital-only environment and if possible, do it with the Sony itself without the aid of other equipment or media. ImTheOne is leading this effort.

I don’t have access to a digital TVGOS host signal so I can only sit on the sidelines and wait for ImTheOne’s conclusions… which should be any minute now ;)

And to make things more confusing, I should point out that all the Download Schedule pictures that videobruce, and HoustonPerson posted only show the analog download schedules. Here are the first 2 screens of my Download Schedule screen. Notice the digital schedule is 24 lines long, as opposed to 11 lines for the analog schedules. There is 1 digital schedule, and 5 analog schedules on my DHG. I believe you are both trying to get digital downloads, so you would need the digital schedule. I don't know where in this process a digital schedule would appear, but it might need to show up before you get any further. It might appear simultaneously with a channel lineup. ImTheOne, or bwall23 might be able to explain when the digital schedule should show up. Sorry, I know this just totally confuses the issue more.

MarkEmperical evidence points to the shorter duration of the same type download as being from digital, vs. longer duration of the same type download being from analog. I have not seen anyone providing proof of how to determine the StID belonging to a digital vs. analog station. Just evidence that I've seen posted and based on my station ID's and my host stations I know of during my devices previous download times. If one could monitor the output of their device to see what station it tuned to for downloads, that should be proof enough.

I've been having that problem where the unit freezes otherwise while it's recording, and soft resets haven't seemed to fix it (Chicago market). Does anybody know of a dependable fix short of wiping out all the recordings?

Also, since Macrovision is the new owner of TVGOS, and they're all about working for the content providers to make things difficult for us, I'm wondering if maybe they're inserting something in there now so that we can't skip commercials anymore. Just how many people out there are having this problem right now, anyway?

All I know is that this is bugging the living heck outta me, and I'm going to have to go TiVo for sure if I can't remedy it.

I've been having that problem where the unit freezes otherwise while it's recording, and soft resets haven't seemed to fix it (Chicago market). Does anybody know of a dependable fix short of wiping out all the recordings?

Also, since Macrovision is the new owner of TVGOS, and they're all about working for the content providers to make things difficult for us, I'm wondering if maybe they're inserting something in there now so that we can't skip commercials anymore. Just how many people out there are having this problem right now, anyway?

All I know is that this is bugging the living heck outta me, and I'm going to have to go TiVo for sure if I can't remedy it.Other than that obvious innuendo, if you've already tried the outlying area zipcode fix, you should check if you're running low on memory in your device. You may also want to compare your reset codes (diags Reset Info) and memory available and channels turned on/auto with others who own the same device in your area. You can also try (if you're on cable) to split your cable to your two inputs and setup/channel scan the second cable input as OTA and try again.

Not the least important would be to see if anyone else in your area with a DHG is getting the correct version TVGOS data supplied for their DHG (and from which station/OTA/cable, etc).

I speak from experience, as others w/v9 TVGOS and my device (v8, but digital ready) have also been having some problems (even though I have a grid and am able to keep forcing 7.5 days of listings most of the time).

The resets are either intentional from Macrovision, or not. If not, they could be related to memory overflow/leakage.

I'm not having any other problems right now, guide-related or otherwise - just the freezing of all buttons and features while the unit's recording. I know a few others have mentioned the problem, too, and I believe at least one other has in the same market.

Other than that one issue in that situation, everythings working fine. Didn't have guide listings 'till yesterday like most everyone else, but they're back now, again like most everyone else's, along with it set on the analog CBS host channel now (which I already know is the same situation for everyone else here in this market with v8). I haven't done another soft reset since this latest TVGOS "screw-around", so I guess I'll try that again first.

I'm not going to do anything that constitutes "forcing", so that's out. Just wanted to know if anything else permanently worked for anyone other than the soft reset. I'm just waiting for someone from my area to chime in here, so I could compare any other last detail with them.

Also, not sure exactly what you mean by "memory", but I only have about 20 or so OTA stations turned on, and my two drives are less than 50% full. (I don't recall right now if I have the analog host channel turned on, but I suppose I could do that, too - not that it ever made any difference before.)

Emperical evidence points to the shorter duration of the same type download as being from digital, vs. longer duration of the same type download being from analog. I have not seen anyone providing proof of how to determine the StID belonging to a digital vs. analog station. Just evidence that I've seen posted and based on my station ID's and my host stations I know of during my devices previous download times. If one could monitor the output of their device to see what station it tuned to for downloads, that should be proof enough.

With an analog host channel, you only get entries for ID 70, 81, and 27 with durations of 180, 50, and 60 respectively. With a digital host or when downloading from a digital VBI channel, you get the analog entries as stated before and you also get ID 70, 81, 27, and 97 with durations of 30, 20, 20, and 60 respectively. Looking in the download schedule, station IDs assocatied with the longer duration messages are analog stations and stations associated with the shorter duration messages are digital. You can compare the last download time to the download schedule to determine if the download came from an analog or a digital channel.

I've been having that problem where the unit freezes otherwise while it's recording, and soft resets haven't seemed to fix it (Chicago market). Does anybody know of a dependable fix short of wiping out all the recordings?



Are you just doing a soft reset or are you also rescanning your channels and re-entering your setup information? In the past, this behavior has been associated with changes to the channel lineup no longer matching up to the scanned channels (someone else's explanation). I experienced this on both of my recorders some time ago and it is what brought me back to this forum in search of a solution. Soft resets alone will correct the freeze-up if this is the cause of your problem, but they will not correct the underlying cause and your recorder will freeze up again. Doing all three things in sequence corrected the problems I was experiencing. I don't know if the cause of your problems is the same as mine, but it won't hurt your recorder to try this and it may possibly help. You'll have to go really far back in the thread to find the source of this. It will be before I joined this thread.

Are you just doing a soft reset or are you also rescanning your channels and re-entering your setup information?No - just the front panel reset - and the listings come back as they were.

I'll try that then. Thanks.

I've been having that problem where the unit freezes otherwise while it's recording, and soft resets haven't seemed to fix it (Chicago market). Does anybody know of a dependable fix short of wiping out all the recordings?

Also, since Macrovision is the new owner of TVGOS, and they're all about working for the content providers to make things difficult for us, I'm wondering if maybe they're inserting something in there now so that we can't skip commercials anymore. Just how many people out there are having this problem right now, anyway?

All I know is that this is bugging the living heck outta me, and I'm going to have to go TiVo for sure if I can't remedy it.

In Houston we have had 3 DTV transitions so far, affecting TV Guide Downloads. We have at least 2 more to go; but 3 to 6 more into next October (if the FCC gets their way). Each of those has changed the entire DL routines (as well as analogue to digital).

My unit would lock up somewhat easily (skip commercials, pause go to kitchen, wait on wife, replay), while the unit was recording another show. This was a result of the pre-transition prep in January (for Feb 17th change). The ONLY solution was full factory reset - and that cured the lock ups 100% until March 9th, when our analogue downloads stopped and Macrovision attempted to begin the digital transitions. The lock ups returned with monster teeth this time. We wanted to watch all the remaining shows in the box (about 25). So I had to deleted all the "scheduled recordings" so we could watch the "recordings already in the box". And at least that solved the problem so we could watch the shows.

Ok, so now we had completed watching most of the recorded shows........and we begin the attemp of digital DLs. Sorry no can do - lock ups are back.

So to fix it and have another clean sweep, full factory reset again. And of course now there is no grid and no listings. The listings are in fact being received by the box, but they are 100% rejected because there is a failure in channel mapping.

Sony tells me they are indeed working on the problem..........they thought they had until June 12 th...........they thought most cable providers would be able to continue with analogue match conversions (some can some can't).

The ONLY real fix will come from Sony. Call and get your name on their list.

And to make things more confusing, I should point out that all the Download Schedule pictures that videobruce, and HoustonPerson posted only show the analog download schedules. Here are the first 2 screens of my Download Schedule screen. Notice the digital schedule is 24 lines long, as opposed to 11 lines for the analog schedules. There is 1 digital schedule, and 5 analog schedules on my DHG. I believe you are both trying to get digital downloads, so you would need the digital schedule. I don't know where in this process a digital schedule would appear, but it might need to show up before you get any further. It might appear simultaneously with a channel lineup. ImTheOne, or bwall23 might be able to explain when the digital schedule should show up. Sorry, I know this just totally confuses the issue more.

Mark

On StID's please explain to me, I do not understand. There is no analogue TV Guide source here. The four screens we have of DL's come 100% from the local CBS digital station OTA. Are you saying they digital station is sending analogue stuff for legacy boxes like the Sony?

As of this afternoon, still no correct clock and still no lineup on the 3rd DHG. I'm beginning to think that there is no TVGOS data available on Charter in my area. My other two DHG's and my Mits have never been connected to cable-only. I did have one connected to OTA-only for a while, and it still received data. I'm going to disconnect my Mits (V-9.x) from the antenna and make it cable-only for a few days to see what happens with it, before I try anything else with the cable-only DHG.

I did notice something that surprised me. Last night after I did the "G*Factory Reset" (the command above the G*test), my TVGOS version showed as 08.01.42/08.06.44/00.00.00. I thought that it would only show 08.01.42 with the others set to zeros after the reset? :confused:


Edit: Well, scratch the idea of disconnecting the cable line from the Mits. I went and did it, but then turned on the set to see what my "starting point" was. The guide on the Mits was "no listings" today. My other two DHG's have full listings. Note that the Mits normall only has 1 day of listings, since it's not a recorder there's no need to know whats coming on next week. Maybe it really is (was) getting listings from cable (1:12-0) as I had noted earlier. And maybe the cable coincidentally stopped sending TVGOS data last night? I know the Mits had listings last night because I saw them.

As of this morning, still nothing with the 3rd (cable only) DHG. And there were also still no listings on the Mits. The Mits still indicated 1:12-0 in the Host ID field (should be cable ch-12 analog PBS). I fired up one of my working DHG's an ran the G*test on cable ch-12, and found that it was not passing VBI data. I then ran the G*test on OTA ch-12 and found the VBI data to be just fine. I went back to the Mits and enabled ch-12 analog OTA, since I had removed it from the ch-up/down list when I first got the TV. I'm now waiting to see if the Mits picks up program listings later today. I don't understand though why the Mits (which runs TVGOS V-9.1.56) would not have automatically gone to CBS 4.1 OTA for listings. That channel had been enabled since day one, and I have previously gotten listings from 4.1 on my DHG's using the G*test/leave-on trick. This doesn't make me feel too warm and fuzzy about the Mits................... :o :o :o

I wish I knew how to run the 9012 command on the Mits. Anyone?

I have three 500's in Chicago on OTA only. I have not messed around with trying to force digital hosts, but have been skimming the thread all along. I don't even know how to view the host channel. I say this so you know my experience level.

I noticed on Monday night that there were no listings for Wednesday or subsequent days on any of the three units. I performed a soft reset on two of the units Wednesday evening, since there were no listings on any of the three. I had no listings on Thursday. Today, I have listings for Friday, Saturday, Tuesday, and Friday (Days 1,2,5,7).

If memory serves, that might be indicative of a "normal" download schedule, with the remainder of the days filling in tonight.

I don't know if this helps or not, but there it is.

Mark

Well, I checked this morning, and I only have listings for Saturday, Tuesday, and Friday, so nothing happened overnight. What is the easiest way for me to force change the host channel change. Would a TV Guide reset do it? If so, do I just re-enter the setup information in TVGOS? Air, zip code, etc.

I follow this thread, but there is so much traffic lately that I can't make heads or tales of anything.

Thanks for any help.

Mark

I'm not having any other problems right now, guide-related or otherwise - just the freezing of all buttons and features while the unit's recording. I know a few others have mentioned the problem, too, and I believe at least one other has in the same market.

With a Buffalo analog OTA 17 host, I have had that happen to us on 3 nights now in the last 3 weeks. It happened again last night. The box was doing a timed recording and would not react to any commands, even the power off command. The listings did not update last night though they did the night before and the host hasn't changed in the meantime. Odd, as this recording was at 8-9 PM when TVGOS is not supposed to be downloading anything.

I thought it was just an issue with our box, but I guess not.

On StID's please explain to me, I do not understand. There is no analogue TV Guide source here. The four screens we have of DL's come 100% from the local CBS digital station OTA. Are you saying they digital station is sending analogue stuff for legacy boxes like the Sony?

I don't understand it either. I vaguely remember someone saying that they were surprised after they did a reset that their download schedules were still there. It could be since your box reset itself (if I recall), that the download schedules weren't wiped out, and you have not actually received any download schedules from your digital host station, but this is wild speculation on my part.

I think the reason my unit received the 5 analog schedules (and maybe the 1 digital schedule also) was because my unit had stopped at the "get channel lineup" point, and to get over that hurdle, I connected the DVR to analog cbs on cable (their TVGOS inserter has been working for about a month now). I left it there until I got my channel line up (less than 12 hours), and then switched back to digital. I presume that having it on the analog source for a few hours, caused the download schedules to appear, and I may never have received a download schedule from my digital source either.

Mark

If you're going to do that you will lose the sw 44 version.
I wouldn't do it if you have the clock with correct time, ads, and a grid.
If they shut down again you will be SOL for a lot longer.

If you do it be sure you're getting good VBI for 0-2 first. Turn if off and leave it for at least 12 hours.

For me, once I establish time, ads, and grid with some listings, running the G*test and leaving it on, set to 2-1, has always filled in all listings over night.
I usually lose day 8 about every 2 to 3 days and regain it with this process.


A soft reset normally does not lose your current SW version. This will happen only sometimes if there are other underlying problems.

So I did the reset last night and I now have listings for days 1,2,5 and 8. Host channel is still cable CBS-HD. But I don't know if the listings really came from there or from OTA 2 analog.

So the next test is happening right now. I'm running the G*Test on cable CBS-HD. If that works to get the rest of the 8-day guide, it means there was a problem that the reset fixed. If it does not work, it would indicate that my DVR was again cheating on me last night! Digital may be more efficient, but those analog women are hard to resist.

It changed to DST between 2 am and 8 am, with unit in standby. Manual recordings are stuck with Unknown title but unlike VCR, each recording has date time and channel, which is very help in determining what the program is.
Ray

My clock set to DST between 10pm-1am last night. If I get the guide back up, even with some channels missing, I promise not to screw around with it.

Are there any OTA HD DVR out there? What happened to the EchoTR50? I am ready to buy one in case these problems persist. I am thinking without TVGOS any DVR will have to incorporate Title labeling, I have a Panasonic DVD recorder that has this but it can't record/playback in HD. Oh well life is full of compromises. I thought I had it all with Sony, well maybe not all an additional tuner or two would have been nice, but all in all I must admit when this thing works it rocks! That's why a lot of us put up with it!

All I know is that this is bugging the living heck outta me, and I'm going to have to go TiVo for sure if I can't remedy it.

You can get a lifetime dual-tuner TiVo with 1TB HDD for $1000. That was the original retail price of the DHG-HDD500. But the TiVo works and is supposed to have switched video covered, too.

I think the Sony will eventually work, but will likely always be difficult to deal with. It's fun up to a point, but not when the thing takes over your life.

Seems like I get a little of something back every night, I am now getting ads as well, But still stuck without a grid.:eek:

With an analog host channel, you only get entries for ID 70, 81, and 27 with durations of 180, 50, and 60 respectively. With a digital host or when downloading from a digital VBI channel, you get the analog entries as stated before and you also get ID 70, 81, 27, and 97 with durations of 30, 20, 20, and 60 respectively. Looking in the download schedule, station IDs assocatied with the longer duration messages are analog stations and stations associated with the shorter duration messages are digital. You can compare the last download time to the download schedule to determine if the download came from an analog or a digital channel.

When you look at the digital schedule, ID70 & ID97 always run back-to-back twice for a total of 3 hours, which would equal one analog ID70. It seems that for digital, the content of analog ID70 has been broken out into two parts. We know we can get listings fine if we have a lineup. You can watch cast, show, etc., packets incrementing when ID70 is in progress.

I can't help wondering if the data needed to build a channel lineup is in ID97 and if there is something wrong with that particular ID type? Might be a good question to ask Macrovision.

You can get a lifetime dual-tuner TiVo with 1TB HDD for $1000. That was the original retail price of the DHG-HDD500. But the TiVo works and is supposed to have switched video covered, too.

I think the Sony will eventually work, but will likely always be difficult to deal with. It's fun up to a point, but not when the thing takes over your life.
Does the Tivo have separate antenna and cable inputs? Can the Tivo be programmed for clear QAM without a cablecard?

Also, do you happen to know the model number?

Thanks in advance.

A soft reset normally does not lose your current SW version. This will happen only sometimes if there are other underlying problems.

So I did the reset last night and I now have listings for days 1,2,5 and 8. Host channel is still cable CBS-HD. But I don't know if the listings really came from there or from OTA 2 analog.

So the next test is happening right now. I'm running the G*Test on cable CBS-HD. If that works to get the rest of the 8-day guide, it means there was a problem that the reset fixed. If it does not work, it would indicate that my DVR was again cheating on me last night! Digital may be more efficient, but those analog women are hard to resist.

That 1, 2, 5, and 8 pattern sure looks like an analog download pattern. This is how my analog DVR filled in when cox got the inserter working about a month ago. Every digital guide download I've seen fills in days 1 through 8 with no gaps. And your host channel still shows as digital? :eek: This "Moron" better not comment any further... ;)

Mark

When you look at the digital schedule, ID70 & ID97 always run back-to-back twice for a total of 3 hours, which would equal one analog ID70. It seems that for digital, the content of analog ID70 has been broken out into two parts. We know we can get listings fine if we have a lineup. You can watch cast, show, etc., packets incrementing when ID70 is in progress.

I can't help wondering if the data needed to build a channel lineup is in ID97 and if there is something wrong with that particular ID type? Might be a good question to ask Macrovision.

I don't know what is contained in the ID97 packets, but I have watched the VBI Stat counts during a scheduled download and haven't seen any of the packet counts related to channel lineup increase. You may be right though, they may have had two types of data in the analog 70 downloads that are now segregated into separate IDs on the digital side.

When you look at the digital schedule, ID70 & ID97 always run back-to-back twice for a total of 3 hours, which would equal one analog ID70. It seems that for digital, the content of analog ID70 has been broken out into two parts. We know we can get listings fine if we have a lineup. You can watch cast, show, etc., packets incrementing when ID70 is in progress.


Interesting find. I had never noticed the 70, 97, 70, 97 pattern before.


I can't help wondering if the data needed to build a channel lineup is in ID97 and if there is something wrong with that particular ID type? Might be a good question to ask Macrovision.

Could it be as simple as a newly loaded 08.06.44 system doesn't know it needs that ID? Maybe without a download schedule it only knows about IDs 27, 70, and 81. Once it gets a digital download schedule then it knows about ID 97, and can then download it. I realize this is total (outlandish even)speculation on my part, and that not even I can believe that Sony could have possibly left out the necessary "brain" to download the ID97 data from a "virgin" system load.

And to contradict myself... haven't there been people on this board, who were digital only, (bm4wood, and fox200 come to mind, but maybe they weren't digital only) who were able to recover from a full reset prior to a few weeks ago?

Mark

My Sony DHG-HDD250 lost all its TV -Guide information 4 days ago. In trying to discover what the problem was, I came across this forum. Some of the details described in here are bit more than I quite understand, so I called the Sony support line. They informed me that the Sony DVR only reads the TV-Guide information through its analog tuner, not the digital one. If my local station stopped broadcasting on its analog channel, then that would explain why I lost all the TV-Guide information. The Sony support person also said that their engineers were working on a firmware fix that would allow the unit to use the digital tuner to receive the tv-guide information, but that he didn't know when this would be available.

Has anyone else heard this, about the DVR only receiving program information through the analog tuner and not the digital tuner? Also, how do you know which channel the DVR is using to receive this information?

I only have my DVR connected to an off air antenna.

Thanks.

-Dave

And to contradict myself... haven't there been people on this board, who were digital only, (bm4wood, and fox200 come to mind, but maybe they weren't digital only) who were able to recover from a full reset prior to a few weeks ago?


Found both posts:
bm4wood (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16068371#post16068371)'s post was only 3 days ago, but he says it has been a month since he did it.

Here is fox200 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15936946#post15936946)'s post. Correction I couldn't find where fox200 claimed to be digital only, only that he had recovered tuned to a digital station. This one may not count.

bm4wood claimed to be digital only at the time.

Mark

I don't know where in this process a digital schedule would appear, but it might need to show up before you get any further. It might appear simultaneously with a channel lineup. ImTheOne, or bwall23 might be able to explain when the digital schedule should show up. Sorry, I know this just totally confuses the issue more.

Mark

The download schedules come from the zip code packets. When the recorder gets a zip code packet that matches the Zip Code input during the setup process, a set of schedule entries is made for each station (StID) containing TVGOS data whose broadcast area includes that Zip Code. If the host channel is analog, only the analog schedules are generated. If the host channal is digital or the zip code packet is received over a digital VBI channel, the digital schedule(s) is (are) included in addition to the analog schedules. It is likely that after the digital transition is complete, analog schedules will no longer be transmitted. You may notice in the download schedules that one of the schedules has a second set of times that start 3 minutes after the first set of times. I believe that this occurs for the host channel and bypasses some information at the beginning of the download that isn't necessary for data received over a host channel (pure speculation on my part). I also believe that the StIDs from the zip code packet form the short list of channels that the recorder scans when looking for a host channel (also speculation on my part). In addition, I think that the quality field gives the recorder a criterion to use in selecting the search order (still further speculation on my part). Will the speculation ever end (or turn impure)???:D

I got really lucky when I found an hdd-250 at a Circuit City three weeks ago...Of course, no remote or box nor a guarantee that it was working. After disabling the Demo mode, it took me another week for it populate a guide...although, when I powered it up, 1 minute after I had _ _ : _ _ and 10 minutes later I had a clock with the wrong time.

I did not play with any diagnostic menus...I just set my zip code. A day later, after I had nothing, I found out I had forgotten to scan my channels...strictly OTA. Day six I had the guide...everything working. If info on rabbitears is true, I am getting the TVGuide info digital thru 5.1...San Antonio Texas. Guess we won't know until shutoff.

I've heard of people scoring these...never thought it would happen to me. Not bad for $20.00...now that's a slickdeal!

Could it be as simple as a newly loaded 08.06.44 system doesn't know it needs that ID? Maybe without a download schedule it only knows about IDs 27, 70, and 81. Once it gets a digital download schedule then it knows about ID 97, and can then download it. I realize this is total (outlandish even)speculation on my part, and that not even I can believe that Sony could have possibly left out the necessary "brain" to download the ID97 data from a "virgin" system load.
Mark

A freshly reset system doesn't know anything about download schedules until is receives a zip code packet that matches the Zip Code input during the setup process. The TVGOS software can still recognize all of the data it receives even if it doesn't have a download schedule. This includes ID97 packets. Sony has nothing to do with this. This is strictly a function of the TVGOS software. ID97 packets didn't exist when the last of these recorders rolled off the Sony assembly line.

Todd,
Just have to be patient. Your guide will work just fine with the Sony. George at TVGOS was not sure why CBS Corp has not turned on SCTE 127 data.
He did speculate testing.
I filled out the document about the stats in the 753 menu and emailed it back to him. Don't want to give out the document and email here.

Thanks for the update, I'll keep my fingers crossed !!

My Sony DHG-HDD250 lost all its TV -Guide information 4 days ago. In trying to discover what the problem was, I came across this forum. Some of the details described in here are bit more than I quite understand, so I called the Sony support line. They informed me that the Sony DVR only reads the TV-Guide information through its analog tuner, not the digital one. If my local station stopped broadcasting on its analog channel, then that would explain why I lost all the TV-Guide information. The Sony support person also said that their engineers were working on a firmware fix that would allow the unit to use the digital tuner to receive the tv-guide information, but that he didn't know when this would be available.

Has anyone else heard this, about the DVR only receiving program information through the analog tuner and not the digital tuner? Also, how do you know which channel the DVR is using to receive this information?

I only have my DVR connected to an off air antenna.

Thanks.

-Dave

It's good to see another confirmation that Sony is actually working the issue(s). :) Did you get this information from the initial tech support person you spoke with or did you have to be passed up the support chain to hear this?

They informed me that the Sony DVR only reads the TV-Guide information through its analog tuner, not the digital one. If my local station stopped broadcasting on its analog channel, then that would explain why I lost all the TV-Guide information. The Sony support person also said that their engineers were working on a firmware fix that would allow the unit to use the digital tuner to receive the tv-guide information, but that he didn't know when this would be available.

:rolleyes: I'm not buying too much stock in that "read it from the script" answer. The Sony already receives TVGOS from the digital tuner. Dozens of us already have proven it although Sony support doesn't seem to know that. The only thing that doesn't seem to be working for anyone is building a channel lineup.

My clock set to DST between 10pm-1am last night. If I get the guide back up, even with some channels missing, I promise not to screw around with it.

Are there any OTA HD DVR out there? What happened to the EchoTR50? I am ready to buy one in case these problems persist. I am thinking without TVGOS any DVR will have to incorporate Title labeling, I have a Panasonic DVD recorder that has this but it can't record/playback in HD. Oh well life is full of compromises. I thought I had it all with Sony, well maybe not all an additional tuner or two would have been nice, but all in all I must admit when this thing works it rocks! That's why a lot of us put up with it!

After I got DST, my guide was still blank. I got it to appear by changing the zip to all zeros, switching to standby for a few minutes, then turning unit on again and entering the correct zip.
Ray

Does the Tivo have separate antenna and cable inputs? Can the Tivo be programmed for clear QAM without a cablecard?

Also, do you happen to know the model number?
Yes and yes. Those questions and more are answered in the TivoHD Q&A thread, linked in my signature.

My 250 unit, which I accidentally reset the guide, now appears to be completely recovered - ads, eight days of listing, and locked onto CBS HD for both guide and clock. I disabled the auto off feature to see if that unit will stay locked on the digital host. Also, I removed the rabbit ears, which I had connected for the recovery since I get weak signal on the analog host, channel 11.

My 500 unit is working just like the 250 except this unit is locked onto analog channel 11 for both host and clock, even though signal is very weak. I few days ago, it was locked onto the digital channel and migrated back to analog. I plan to leave the auto off feature enabled for now.

Ray

My 250 unit, which I accidentally reset the guide, now appears to be completely recovered - ads, eight days of listing, and locked onto CBS HD for both guide and clock. I disabled the auto off feature to see if that unit will stay locked on the digital host. Also, I removed the rabbit ears, which I had connected for the recovery since I get weak signal on the analog host, channel 11.


That's good news. If you are sure that analog channel 11 can't be seen by the DVR, then you should be able to turn it off overnight, and it should work normally. You shouldn't need to leave it tuned to the host channel running the G* Test all night. That should only be necessary when you're trying to force data from a digital TVGOS channel when an analog TVGOS channel is present. If it doesn't get guide data when turned off, then it really isn't working right, which is the problem some people are having (they only get guide data when turned on and tuned to the host channel).

Mark

That's good news. If you are sure that analog channel 11 can't be seen by the DVR, then you should be able to turn it off overnight, and it should work normally. You shouldn't need to leave it tuned to the host channel running the G* Test all night. That should only be necessary when you're trying to force data from a digital TVGOS channel when an analog TVGOS channel is present. If it doesn't get guide data when turned off, then it really isn't working right, which is the problem some people are having (they only get guide data when turned on and tuned to the host channel).

Mark

From what I reported earlier, both units are capable of receiving weak signal channel 11. If I can find a VHF/UHF splitter, I may install it to block channel 11. Until recently, UHF channel 28 was the source of guide data, which precluded blocking of the analog source.

Now I am trying to block the affect of channel 11 by leaving my 250 on since digital download seems to work that way.
Ray

So I did the reset last night and I now have listings for days 1,2,5 and 8. Host channel is still cable CBS-HD. But I don't know if the listings really came from there or from OTA 2 analog.

So the next test is happening right now. I'm running the G*Test on cable CBS-HD. If that works to get the rest of the 8-day guide, it means there was a problem that the reset fixed. If it does not work, it would indicate that my DVR was again cheating on me last night! Digital may be more efficient, but those analog women are hard to resist.

Well! The G*Test today got me all 8 days of guide (except for a few empty slots here and there). This is the first time that this has worked during the last 10 days of trouble. So it appears the soft reset cleared whatever was fouling up the unit. I'll turn it off tonight and hope things get back to normal for a while. (Whatever "normal" is for this thing.)

I follow this thread, but there is so much traffic lately that I can't make heads or tales of anything.

Mark
Yes, I agree, it's a very hard tale to follow these days, in this thread, with no tail end in sight!....

You can get a lifetime dual-tuner TiVo with 1TB HDD for $1000. That was the original retail price of the DHG-HDD500. But the TiVo works and is supposed to have switched video covered, too.

I think the Sony will eventually work, but will likely always be difficult to deal with. It's fun up to a point, but not when the thing takes over your life.
I sympathize with this sentiment, but I'm waiting to find out how both my Sony and my LG3410a are doing in - say - July. If one or (I shudder to think) BOTH of them isn't fully functional then, I will seriously consider getting a Tivo Hd for myself (I already have one on an account of mine at my father's house on the other side of the continent)...but I doubt I would ever get a 1 TB unit! Having anything like a HUNDRED recordings would be impossible to keep straight, especially with the lousy Tivo recordings interface...which I HATE!...if backed into a corner, I would even consider having TWO units with smaller storage, and organize things so that particular programs were on different units, which would help keep the recordings untangled from each other...of course, if there were a button on the remote that said "recordings", so you could get to an informative list (i.e., with more than just the program title with just one push), I would reconsider my opinions...

I wish I knew how to run the 9012 command on the Mits. Anyone?TVGOS ( TV Guide On Screen ) Devices (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15882735)

For V9 Diagnostics, Open TV Guide On Screen, highlight SETUP on the service bar, press ENTER, enter the diagnostic code of 753 159 852 (or any other diagnostic code).

NOTE: For V9 Guide Daily, Bring up TV Guide, press 'Menu' button, highlight first choice, enter the diagnostic code of 753 159 852 (or any other diagnostic code).

[QUOTE=todd95008;16089532]

Todd,
Just have to be patient. Your guide will work just fine with the Sony. George at TVGOS was not sure why CBS Corp has not turned on SCTE 127 data.
He did speculate testing.
I filled out the document about the stats in the 753 menu and emailed it back to him. Don't want to give out the document and email here.
fox200 et al:

As I noted in my response to your initial post about this, the SCTE 127 data has nothing to do with the normal digital TVGOS data, as (at least to me) is clearly indicated in the document I referred to earlier (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=137466&d=1237671243)...I certainly HOPE that the Sony eventually stands on its own, but the Macrovision support person's reference to SCTE 127 suggests that he either doesn't know what he was talking about, or didn't understand what you were asking about, since the TV Guide document identifies SCTE 127 as the standard for encoding TVGOS data in a vbi (i.e., ANALOG) format - transmitted digitally in a special stream - for use of the DTVPal in its TVGOS mode to convey to a device that requires ANALOG TVGOS to continue operating...

As far as I can tell, no one else since your post has even commented on the disparity between what he told you and what he sent you (i.e., regarding SCTE 127)...

As I say, I remain hopeful, but not on the basis of what he told/sent you...like some others here, I have been following this thread for years, and watching it pretty carefully for the last year, and have seen a lot of progress in our understanding (which is, however, still clearly limited) of what is going on, but what has been happening with our unit over the last couple of months has been quite disconcerting - and many of us have been hoping for evidence and commentary (including interactions with Sony or Macrovision) that are more consistent and compelling...

Avnstf, my take on what is described in that document is different than yours. I admit I have only a layman's understanding, but there are two different data streams embedded in the digital signal: SCTE127 which contains legacy VBI format, and TVG1 which is pure digital.

Products that only have an analog tuner will only be able to get TVGOS data OTA if something like DTV Pal can separate out the VBI stream and output it as analog. Cable operators have the ability to strip it from the digital signal and output to an analog channel.

At the other end are digital tuner TVGOS version 9 CE products that are supposed to be able to receive and understand the TVG1 data stream.

In the middle are products like the DHG which can receive digital broadcasts but need VBI format TVGOS data, so they "read" the SCTE127 stream.

I think I'm reasonably correct on this, but if I'm way off base hopefully someone will have a better explanation. ;)

Yes it is history - but not much has changed in the last nine months.

http://www.videsignline.com/news/208808476

There are tons of rumors about new DVR type products - most based on Macrovison; but little support or nearly none for OTA peeps. Many of thses new products should be here this summer. But nothing is certain regarding OTA. Just about everything you can dream of for Cable, Sat, and Internet.

After I got DST, my guide was still blank. I got it to appear by changing the zip to all zeros, switching to standby for a few minutes, then turning unit on again and entering the correct zip.
Ray

I will try to duplicate what you did. How soon can I expect the guide to appear, and do I need to do auto scan?

Thanks for your help

You can get a lifetime dual-tuner TiVo with 1TB HDD for $1000. That was the original retail price of the DHG-HDD500. But the TiVo works and is supposed to have switched video covered, too.

I think the Sony will eventually work, but will likely always be difficult to deal with. It's fun up to a point, but not when the thing takes over your life.

I am feeling the same way...

I had 2 Tivo's - an S3 that I bought the day it was launched, and an S2 that I had since 2002. The S2 recently died, and when I called Tivo to cancel its subscription, they offered me a new (not refurb) TiVo HD for $200. I took it and had its service number swapped out for the dead S2. Just got the cablecards in it today.

I now have a total of 4 reliable HD tuners, accurate clock, and internet guide data. Yeah it costs me $20 a month for the two boxes, but it is money well spent. This Sony box has been kind of a pain in the @$$ lately. I will probably keep it for the 5th tuner, but seriously, I don't see myself needing that many HD tuners very often (if at all). Maybe I will just sell it.

Avnstf, my take on what is described in that document is different than yours. I admit I have only a layman's understanding, but there are two different data streams embedded in the digital signal: SCTE127 which contains legacy VBI format, and TVG1 which is pure digital.

Products that only have an analog tuner will only be able to get TVGOS data OTA if something like DTV Pal can separate out the VBI stream and output it as analog. Cable operators have the ability to strip it from the digital signal and output to an analog channel.

At the other end are digital tuner TVGOS version 9 CE products that are supposed to be able to receive and understand the TVG1 data stream.

In the middle are products like the DHG which can receive digital broadcasts but need VBI format TVGOS data, so they "read" the SCTE127 stream.

I think I'm reasonably correct on this, but if I'm way off base hopefully someone will have a better explanation. ;)

Possumgirl,
Well put....I'm impressed! Remember in one of my earlier posts I said the Sony could not receive a digital host without analog support? Is'nt
SCTE 127 analog support?;) Wow Avnstf seems a little angry. I just pass along what the people tell me at TVGOS. After all, they produce the stuff.

TVGOS ( TV Guide On Screen ) Devices (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15882735)

For V9 Diagnostics, Open TV Guide On Screen, highlight SETUP on the service bar, press ENTER, enter the diagnostic code of 753 159 852 (or any other diagnostic code).

NOTE: For V9 Guide Daily, Bring up TV Guide, press 'Menu' button, highlight first choice, enter the diagnostic code of 753 159 852 (or any other diagnostic code).

bwall23 -

Thanks for the link, but I had seen that already and it doesn't appear to work for my set (LT-46246) with V9 Guide Daily. The V9 on my set has no service bar, so the first method you mention doesn't work. The second method you note works, but only for the 753159852 diagnostics screens, and you can get to those more quickly by simply selecting the "Diagnostics" choice after you've pressed the Guide/Menu buttons on the remote.

http://home.att.net/~pix/AVS/Mits46246_V9.JPG

You get to this screen by pressing /Guide/Menu on the remote. You can then get to diagnostics by choosing it, or I found that you can do the 753.... code from here (with Diagnostics highlighted) to get to the diagnostic screen.

[QUOTE=fox200;16089700]
fox200 et al:

As I noted in my response to your initial post about this, the SCTE 127 data has nothing to do with the normal digital TVGOS data, as (at least to me) is clearly indicated in the document I referred to earlier (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=137466&d=1237671243)...I certainly HOPE that the Sony eventually stands on its own, but the Macrovision support person's reference to SCTE 127 suggests that he either doesn't know what he was talking about, or didn't understand what you were asking about, since the TV Guide document identifies SCTE 127 as the standard for encoding TVGOS data in a vbi (i.e., ANALOG) format - transmitted digitally in a special stream - for use of the DTVPal in its TVGOS mode to convey to a device that requires ANALOG TVGOS to continue operating...

As far as I can tell, no one else since your post has even commented on the disparity between what he told you and what he sent you (i.e., regarding SCTE 127)...

As I say, I remain hopeful, but not on the basis of what he told/sent you...like some others here, I have been following this thread for years, and watching it pretty carefully for the last year, and have seen a lot of progress in our understanding (which is, however, still clearly limited) of what is going on, but what has been happening with our unit over the last couple of months has been quite disconcerting - and many of us have been hoping for evidence and commentary (including interactions with Sony or Macrovision) that are more consistent and compelling...

All I can say is George at TVGOS knows the Sony, knows the software version, and says that SCTE 127 is being used so "any TVGOS product with a digital tuner and slicer can receive the guide data". certainly no misunderstanding there. It has not been turned on yet in the Bay Area. Here's what he sent me.

bwall23 -

Thanks for the link, but I had seen that already and it doesn't appear to work for my set (LT-46246) with V9 Guide Daily. The V9 on my set has no service bar, so the first method you mention doesn't work. The second method you note works, but only for the 753159852 diagnostics screens, and you can get to those more quickly by simply selecting the "Diagnostics" choice after you've pressed the Guide/Menu buttons on the remote.

I will add a picture of the Mits V9 screen to this post shortly.It could be that TVGOS v9 takes different diagnostic codes. Have you tried the above, but keying in the code 971 397 135, this should be the G* Test everyone is talking about. It's also known as "Enter factory test screen".

bwall23 -

Thanks for the link, but I had seen that already and it doesn't appear to work for my set (LT-46246) with V9 Guide Daily. The V9 on my set has no service bar, so the first method you mention doesn't work. The second method you note works, but only for the 753159852 diagnostics screens, and you can get to those more quickly by simply selecting the "Diagnostics" choice after you've pressed the Guide/Menu buttons on the remote.

http://home.att.net/~pix/AVS/Mits46246_V9.JPGHighlight "Change channel lineup" but don't press OK or ENTER.

On your Mits remote, press the following keys one after the other;
9 then 7 then 1 then 3 then 9 then 7 then 1 then 3 then 5 and don't press OK or ENTER. This should start the test screen that looks for VBI and ATSC data.

P.S. As you press the number buttons on your remote, you won't see anything change until you key in the last number.

P.P.S. Where did you find that version 9.1.56?

I will try to duplicate what you did. How soon can I expect the guide to appear, and do I need to do auto scan?

Thanks for your help

The guide appeared immediately after I re-entered my zip, and brought up the guide screen.

Ray

Highlight "Change channel lineup" but don't press OK or ENTER.

On your Mits remote, press the following keys one after the other;
9 then 7 then 1 then 3 then 9 then 7 then 1 then 3 then 5 and don't press OK or ENTER. This should start the test acreen that looks for VBI and ATSC data.

I will definitely try that............. but I'll have to wait until the morning. This Mits is on the wall in the bedroom and my WAF has already decided to hit the sack. And she already thinks I'm crazy for forking around with all the TV's and DVR's and stuff every few minutes.......... without ever really watching anything lately. :D

I will definitely try that............. but I'll have to wait until the morning. This Mits is on the wall in the bedroom and my WAF has already decided to hit the sack. And she already thinks I'm crazy for forking around with all the TV's and DVR's and stuff every few minutes.......... without ever really watching anything lately. :DJust tell her to be thankful that you're not washing car parts in the dishwasher anymore:D

P.S. As you press the number buttons on your remote, you won't see anything change until you key in the last number.

P.P.S. Where did you find that version 9.1.56?

Re P.S. ........... Yes, I know. :eek:

Re P.P.S. ............ That's the version that came in the TV, which is about 2 months old. Or do you mean where did I see the version number??? It is shown on the diagnostics screens accessed by /Guide/Menu/Diagnostics (or Guide/Menu/753159852).

Re P.S. ........... Yes, I know. :eek:

Re P.P.S. ............ That's the version that came in the TV, which is about 2 months old. Or do you mean where did I see the version number??? It is shown on the diagnostics screens accessed by /Guide/Menu/Diagnostics (or Guide/Menu/75315982).Do you know if you have a patch version?
09.01.56/??.??.??/

do you know if you have a patch version?
09.01.56/??.??.??/

09.01.56/00.00.00/00.00.00 :)

Avnstf, my take on what is described in that document is different than yours. I admit I have only a layman's understanding, but there are two different data streams embedded in the digital signal: SCTE127 which contains legacy VBI format, and TVG1 which is pure digital.

Products that only have an analog tuner will only be able to get TVGOS data OTA if something like DTV Pal can separate out the VBI stream and output it as analog. Cable operators have the ability to strip it from the digital signal and output to an analog channel.

At the other end are digital tuner TVGOS version 9 CE products that are supposed to be able to receive and understand the TVG1 data stream.

In the middle are products like the DHG which can receive digital broadcasts but need VBI format TVGOS data, so they "read" the SCTE127 stream.

I think I'm reasonably correct on this, but if I'm way off base hopefully someone will have a better explanation. ;)

SCTE 127 is a standard for encoding digital TVGOS in a digital broadcast so that a compatible receiver can do two things simultaneously: 1) Pass through to devices that can read all digital; 2) down-convert the broadcast to analog, including translating the digital TVGOS stream to analog VBI.

The Sony will either be able to successfully receive the all digital stream for guide purposes, or it will need the down-converted analog channel that a cable company can furnish.

FWIW, that's the way a TVGOS operations person explained it to me.

http://www.megahz.com/specimages/Tandberg/RX8320.pdf

That's the cable solution if we need it. For OTA, maybe the DTVPal is the answer, but I don't know anything about that.

09.01.56/00.00.00/00.00.00 :)Thanks for that info and sorry to bug you:) Enjoy your Saturday night:cool:

All I can say is George at TVGOS knows the Sony, knows the software version, and says that SCTE 127 is being used so "any TVGOS product with a digital tuner and slicer can receive the guide data". certainly no misunderstanding there. It has not been turned on yet in the Bay Area. Here's what he sent me.

Hey Fox, what is the status of your setup.
Complete reset y/n ? OTA or cable ?
Clock is correct (& Clock host #) ? Ads ?
Ch lineup yet ?
as mentioned before, I'm stuck at no lineups on the sony but definately getting VBI on 5.1/29.1 OTA.
My Pioneer plasma is connected to cable (comcast) and has had guide data now since 2 days ago. the host ch is set at 78.1 (comcast cable ch # before it is mapped down to 5.1) so CBS is sending data.
The question is if the format of that data is correct for a version 8 Tvgos system ?????
Today I plugged in the cable line into the sony (without scanning ch) and set to 78.1 (CBS digital in all it's glory) and did another G*test (passed) and shut of until tomorrow. This should tell me if the data is just not formatted correctly for version 8 devices or if Comcast is doing something to make it work.
We shall see what happens ???

Hey Fox, what is the status of your setup.
Complete reset y/n ? OTA or cable ?
Clock is correct (& Clock host #) ? Ads ?
Ch lineup yet ?
as mentioned before, I'm stuck at no lineups on the sony but definately getting VBI on 5.1/29.1 OTA.
My Pioneer plasma is connected to cable (comcast) and has had guide data now since 2 days ago. the host ch is set at 78.1 (comcast cable ch # before it is mapped down to 5.1) so CBS is sending data.
The question is if the format of that data is correct for a version 8 Tvgos system ?????
Today I plugged in the cable line into the sony (without scanning ch) and set to 78.1 (CBS digital in all it's glory) and did another G*test (passed) and shut of until tomorrow. This should tell me if the data is just not formatted correctly for version 8 devices or if Comcast is doing something to make it work.
We shall see what happens ???

4 machines ota
1 rebooted last week, lost grid, reset to default, now has current software,
ads, clock channel at 5.1, and passes vbi. However, no grid or lineup. Unit needs analog or SCTE 127 to get it back.
Other 3 machines have current grids and lineup from before PBS shut down their analog hosts. Use G test to fill in guides as needed. All correct clocks and dates on 5.1. Now waiting for CBS to give ok to turn on SCTE 127.
Please post your cable update asap. Thanks

Avnstf, my take on what is described in that document is different than yours. I admit I have only a layman's understanding, but there are two different data streams embedded in the digital signal: SCTE127 which contains legacy VBI format, and TVG1 which is pure digital.

Products that only have an analog tuner will only be able to get TVGOS data OTA if something like DTV Pal can separate out the VBI stream and output it as analog. Cable operators have the ability to strip it from the digital signal and output to an analog channel.

At the other end are digital tuner TVGOS version 9 CE products that are supposed to be able to receive and understand the TVG1 data stream.

In the middle are products like the DHG which can receive digital broadcasts but need VBI format TVGOS data, so they "read" the SCTE127 stream.

I think I'm reasonably correct on this, but if I'm way off base hopefully someone will have a better explanation. ;)
Possumgirl...very interesting take on things - I hadn't thought of this possibility, but I kind of doubt it's what's going on with those streams...here are some thoughts with regard to this possibility:

Most in this thread for the past year or so have thought that, when they "pushed" their units to get digital downloads, it was from the normal, not the vbi-format stream, and I think they're right.

There's no evidence that the SCTE 127 stream even STARTED to be broadcast until several weeks ago, since it seems it has only appeared in a few areas beginning last month, and many of us have definitely gotten digital downloads of program data beginning MANY months ago.

Furthermore, the email received by fox200 specifically STATES that that data stream is NOT available in the SF area...and I can certainly confirm there was no such stream here, based on my experiments with my DTVPal as recently as a month ago. And based on the email comment I just noted, I doubt I will test it again until, say, NEXT month. But, as I say, many have gotten digital program-data downloads beginning the middle of last year, including in this area...I might add that the download schedule on my unit shows both analog and digital schedules...as you know...I kind of doubt that they designed all this stuff that DOES get digital downloads (and has for quite a while), even if they are not independently sustainable, and has before anybody saw an SCTE 127 stream, and yet didn't have the digital design mostly built in from the start..

(I might add that, as you know, my Sony has a diagnostic screen that is labelled "ATSC splicer screen"...I had not looks at the diag screens carefully until very recently, and I don't know whether the screen said that soon after I got my unit 2.5 years ago, but I'll bet that TVGOS thought version 8 would get digital data, if necessary, from the start, but just blew something in the design of its firmware, and had to update it to correct their screwup - as well, of course, to do things like add ads and make other "improvements". I am, of course, not sure of this point...just speculating...)

I and many other people bought a DTVPal last summer specifically because we wanted to see how well (or WHETHER, as it turns out) it worked in TVGOS mode because we all knew we NEEDED to provide a purely analog signal that contained the TVGOS data in the vbi to a unit that definitely did NOT have an atsc slicer, (whatever that is - I'm no expert either)

My guess is that the Sony, built in 2005, not all that long before the known digital transition was intended from the start to transition on its own to digitial...

(On the other hand my LG3410a ALSO has a digital tuner - after all, it's a digital high-definition receiver-recorder, the predecessor of the Sony, and it has NO digital capability with regard to the TVGOS data downloads...the diagnostic screens are significantly simpler than the Sony's, e.g., the vbi data screens DON'T have screens with page after page of download schedules - including both analog and digital - as well as page after page of download RECORDs...I think IT is truly the intermediate type unit you mention...both NTSC and ATSC tuners for what it receives and records, but only getting TVGOS data from NTSC.)

But the main thing, as noted, is the COMPLETE absence of the SCTE 127 data until recently and the fact that it is still available only in a few areas, yet many in this thread are apparently getting digital program-data downloads...(and, not incidentally, nothing through the DTVPal in TVGOS mode...).

But it could still be true that some essential piece requires vbi format, an essentially analog construct, but why would they make it so this was only true for that piece, whatever it is?

(PS to fox200...I certainly didn't mean to sound angry...but I have to admit being frustrated with going round and round on this overall issue for a year, with just occasional little glimmers being made available to us from time to time, largely canceled because half of the glimmers turn out to be misleading or confused statements made by people from Sony and Macrovision, sometimes indirectly through individuals they happened to communicate with...complemented by experimental evidence from users posted in these threads that varies from place to place - and even from unit to unit! - you get the "picture", trying to see one's way through a fog, in the mean time struggling to form a picture of where we are...or will be...know what I mean?)

Oh, I forgot...you said:
"All I can say is George at TVGOS knows the Sony, knows the software version, and says that SCTE 127 is being used so "any TVGOS product with a digital tuner and slicer can receive the guide data". certainly no misunderstanding there. It has not been turned on yet in the Bay Area. Here's what he sent me."
It's the part in bold that really puzzles me the way it is stated, since the document I cited describes the "vbi in MPEG" that some of us have been hearing about for a year as intended so any TVGOS product that requires analog-format data, i.e., any TVGOS product (period) that requires analog data, can function, i.e. any "legacy" TVGOS product...certainly not just for devices with a digital tuner and (digital?) slicer... anyway, you see why what he said may be puzzling...

Thanks for appending that data reporting thing they sent you...

Reading the lasts few weeks of posts here have given me a headache. I can't find any posts that answer my most important question. Are there people getting successful digital downloads where no analog source exists?

I realize there are issues with having to "force" things. And some people have had problems with their clock. And yet others are finding that they have no channel grid.
From what I've been learning over the last week from local broadcast techs, the transition for TVGOS is fairly complex. From Macrovision to the local broadcaster to the local cable company, it sounds like their is a lot of equipment and settings to change.

However, if only one person, in one market, in this entire country is getting successful guide data without doing anything special to their Sony's, then there is hope for all of us.

Reading the lasts few weeks of posts here have given me a headache. I can't find any posts that answer my most important question. Are there people getting successful digital downloads where no analog source exists?

I realize there are issues with having to "force" things. And some people have had problems with their clock. And yet others are finding that they have no channel grid.
From what I've been learning over the last week from local broadcast techs, the transition for TVGOS is fairly complex. From Macrovision to the local broadcaster to the local cable company, it sounds like their is a lot of equipment and settings to change.

However, if only one person, in one market, in this entire country is getting successful guide data without doing anything special to their Sony's, then there is hope for all of us.Like the "try to search on this Forum post?" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15771959) Yeah, if only it really helped, like a Google search. These threads are getting hopeless with this forum's search engine. There's a h**l of a lot of information there, you just can't pick out your needle in the haystack. If anyone has discovered the secret behind this Forums' search engine, please point me to the 101/sticky/etc. I know that I'm considered a "noob" here because I've only been a member for 2 1/2 years, but in all that time, no one has been able to show me how to use this forum's search powers. I find a Google search of the forum much more productive, or find the right thread and download it as a text file and search it (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15993091). So much time to waste, so much waste of time... and to think I could be watching TV, Oops, but then I repeat myself.

Thanks for that info and sorry to bug you:) Enjoy your Saturday night:cool:

No problem. I have some additional info this morning concerning the Mits, and I moved this Mits discussion over to the other TVGOS thread in order to not clutter this Sony thread any more than necessary. :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16097322#post16097322

Yes, if you have been able to maintain or re-create the channel mapping (build a grid), then the unit can have some success in adding the listings. But face it, that is short lived.

My unit is receiving the "listings" via CBS digital OTA after a full factory reset; but they are 100% rejected (up to over 5 million now in a week), because there is "no channel mapping". Currently up to time zone and download version #100.

Yes you may be able to somehow build a grid and mapp by hook or crook; but it is not going to be solid and reliable unless a firmware fix is made for the product. The product requires a dozen or more serious fixes to make it reliable again.

Cable companies are suppose to provide both analogue and digital TV Guide DLs. Some just do "one" of those, and some done "none" of those; that picture will continue to change constantly - but over the "long term" the analogue support WILL go away. The number of OTA stations doing analogue would continure to decrease to zero (or near zero) as we approach June 12th.

Seriously, everyone on the forum should contact Sony, have their name put on the list (email) for firmware with a "support specialist"; get past the first line of telephone support.

The more people that call the faster it will be resolved; IF? it is going to be resolved.

Reading the lasts few weeks of posts here have given me a headache. I can't find any posts that answer my most important question. Are there people getting successful digital downloads where no analog source exists?

Short answer, Yes, I am OTA digital only, and I have received full listings 5 out of the last 9 nights (including the last 3 nights in a row).

However, whenever my host channel sets, the downloads stop. I'm experimenting with changing my zipcode, but until my host channel sets again, I won't know whether that worked or not. My host channel has been blank every night that the downloads have worked. Also, I did not force the host channel in any way. I let my unit set the host channel itself. The only forcing I have done is resetting the host channel back to blank, so the downloads continue. As far as I know, I'm the only one who has reported having this issue, so YMMV.


I realize there are issues with having to "force" things. And some people have had problems with their clock. And yet others are finding that they have no channel grid.


I fall under number 3 "no channel lineup" when coming up from scratch after a reset. I had to connect to an analog TVGOS source on cable (less than 12 hours) to get the channel list, and then I went back to totally digital, and have been that way since (that was 2 weeks ago today, it took me 4 days to figure out that wiping out the host channel made it work).


From what I've been learning over the last week from local broadcast techs, the transition for TVGOS is fairly complex. From Macrovision to the local broadcaster to the local cable company, it sounds like their is a lot of equipment and settings to change.


Both of those conditions have been resolved here (apparently I'm one of the lucky few). My Digital CBS station is broadcasting TVGOS data. My cable company (Cox), has the inserter that converts the digital data stream and sends it out over the analog CBS on cable (this has been working since February 27th. I know this because my analog DVR that had not received TVGOS data in over a year and a half, started gettting data again on that date).


However, if only one person, in one market, in this entire country is getting successful guide data without doing anything special to their Sony's, then there is hope for all of us.

It works here, but not "without doing anything special".

Mark

OK..many posts back someone from Illinois posted that they get full digital guide updates complete from reset from PBS and that their is no analog host available. I asked TVGOS about Illinois because of that post and George said that PBS in Peoria Illinois was up and running with the digital guide with SCTE 127. So if that's true, the people in Peoria with the Sony should be happy campers. They should be able to reset to factory defaults and get the grid and lineup without problems. Some PBS stations will continue to be hosts.

As I have reported. Cox cable is converting the TVGOS stream to analog here which (I believe) proves that the SCTE-127 is working here.

To see for yourself, you can go here (http://digitaltransition.macrovision.com/) and enter 67201 for the zip code (That is "a" Wichita zipcode, but not mine ;)). Then select Cox Communications - Wichita. And see that it says "Known to be working". Now I'll admit that it said "Known to be working", before it was actually working. So back then I complained to macrovision, and they informed me that it would work after the transition. I was skeptical, but sure enough on February 27th, my panasonic DMR-E95H TVGOS came back to life after being dead for a year and a half.

My main point however, is to point out that when I tried to recover from a reset 2 weeks ago, it stopped at the get channel line up point, and I waited 3 days for it to get past that point, before connecting it to analog cable, and getting the line up that way.

Mark

Is there anybody out there from the DFW tv market that can discuss whether they are having TVGOS download issues and Clock issues? Do they know which station is transmitting the TVGOS data?

Also, is it really necessary to have the latest firmware update? If so, which is it and how do I get it?

Thanks.

Possumgirl...very interesting take on things - I hadn't thought of this possibility, but I kind of doubt it's what's going on with those streams...here are some thoughts with regard to this possibility:

Most in this thread for the past year or so have thought that, when they "pushed" their units to get digital downloads, it was from the normal, not the vbi-format stream, and I think they're right.

There's no evidence that the SCTE 127 stream even STARTED to be broadcast until several weeks ago, since it seems it has only appeared in a few areas beginning last month, and many of us have definitely gotten digital downloads of program data beginning MANY months ago.

Furthermore, the email received by fox200 specifically STATES that that data stream is NOT available in the SF area...and I can certainly confirm there was no such stream here, based on my experiments with my DTVPal as recently as a month ago. And based on the email comment I just noted, I doubt I will test it again until, say, NEXT month. But, as I say, many have gotten digital program-data downloads beginning the middle of last year, including in this area...I might add that the download schedule on my unit shows both analog and digital schedules...as you know...I kind of doubt that they designed all this stuff that DOES get digital downloads (and has for quite a while), even if they are not independently sustainable, and has before anybody saw an SCTE 127 stream, and yet didn't have the digital design mostly built in from the start..

(I might add that, as you know, my Sony has a diagnostic screen that is labelled "ATSC splicer screen"...I had not looks at the diag screens carefully until very recently, and I don't know whether the screen said that soon after I got my unit 2.5 years ago, but I'll bet that TVGOS thought version 8 would get digital data, if necessary, from the start, but just blew something in the design of its firmware, and had to update it to correct their screwup - as well, of course, to do things like add ads and make other "improvements". I am, of course, not sure of this point...just speculating...)

I and many other people bought a DTVPal last summer specifically because we wanted to see how well (or WHETHER, as it turns out) it worked in TVGOS mode because we all knew we NEEDED to provide a purely analog signal that contained the TVGOS data in the vbi to a unit that definitely did NOT have an atsc slicer, (whatever that is - I'm no expert either)

My guess is that the Sony, built in 2005, not all that long before the known digital transition was intended from the start to transition on its own to digitial...

(On the other hand my LG3410a ALSO has a digital tuner - after all, it's a digital high-definition receiver-recorder, the predecessor of the Sony, and it has NO digital capability with regard to the TVGOS data downloads...the diagnostic screens are significantly simpler than the Sony's, e.g., the vbi data screens DON'T have screens with page after page of download schedules - including both analog and digital - as well as page after page of download RECORDs...I think IT is truly the intermediate type unit you mention...both NTSC and ATSC tuners for what it receives and records, but only getting TVGOS data from NTSC.)

But the main thing, as noted, is the COMPLETE absence of the SCTE 127 data until recently and the fact that it is still available only in a few areas, yet many in this thread are apparently getting digital program-data downloads...(and, not incidentally, nothing through the DTVPal in TVGOS mode...).

But it could still be true that some essential piece requires vbi format, an essentially analog construct, but why would they make it so this was only true for that piece, whatever it is?

(PS to fox200...I certainly didn't mean to sound angry...but I have to admit being frustrated with going round and round on this overall issue for a year, with just occasional little glimmers being made available to us from time to time, largely canceled because half of the glimmers turn out to be misleading or confused statements made by people from Sony and Macrovision, sometimes indirectly through individuals they happened to communicate with...complemented by experimental evidence from users posted in these threads that varies from place to place - and even from unit to unit! - you get the "picture", trying to see one's way through a fog, in the mean time struggling to form a picture of where we are...or will be...know what I mean?)

Oh, I forgot...you said:
"All I can say is George at TVGOS knows the Sony, knows the software version, and says that SCTE 127 is being used so "any TVGOS product with a digital tuner and slicer can receive the guide data". certainly no misunderstanding there. It has not been turned on yet in the Bay Area. Here's what he sent me."
It's the part in bold that really puzzles me the way it is stated, since the document I cited describes the "vbi in MPEG" that some of us have been hearing about for a year as intended so any TVGOS product that requires analog-format data, i.e., any TVGOS product (period) that requires analog data, can function, i.e. any "legacy" TVGOS product...certainly not just for devices with a digital tuner and (digital?) slicer... anyway, you see why what he said may be puzzling...

Thanks for appending that data reporting thing they sent you...

OK..many posts back someone from Illinois posted that they get full digital guide updates complete from reset from PBS and that their is no analog host available. I asked TVGOS about Illinois because of that post and George said that PBS in Peoria Illinois was up and running with the digital guide with SCTE 127. So if that's true, the people in Peoria with the Sony should be happy campers. They should be able to reset to factory defaults and get the grid and lineup without problems. Some PBS stations will continue to be hosts.

[QUOTE=avnstf;16095250]

All I can say is George at TVGOS knows the Sony, knows the software version, and says that SCTE 127 is being used so "any TVGOS product with a digital tuner and slicer can receive the guide data". certainly no misunderstanding there. It has not been turned on yet in the Bay Area. Here's what he sent me.

Can you get him to provide an explanation of the abbreviations on the diagnostic screens that aren't already explained in the document? I'm sure that all of us would like a glossary of the fields in the diagnostic screens so we can figure out what is happening when things go awry.

... If anyone has discovered the secret behind this Forums' search engine, please point me to the 101/sticky/etc. I know that I'm considered a "noob" here because I've only been a member for 2 1/2 years, but in all that time, no one has been able to show me how to use this forum's search powers...

You may already know and have tried this, but in case you didn't/haven't.

At the top of the screen, select the search tab. Then, at the bottom of the drop-down box, select Advanced Search. Fill in search parameters and select forum threads.

In my previous test (starting from a full TVGOS reset), I successfully acquired the intermediate and lastest TVGOS software patches, entered the setup information, and forced the clock set channel to a digital channel. At that point I was unable to set the clock because I was unable to get a timezone packet over the digital VBI channel.

I checked this by forcing my other recorder to the same digital clock channel. While the second recorder was on I did not receive time zone packets on that recorder either. When I turned the second recorder off and then on again a few hours later, I had received time zone packets on the second recorder, but still not on the test recorder, which remained on during the entire testing time.

Changing plans, I forced the clock set channel on the test recorder to an analog channel, tuned to the digital channel, ran a VBI Channel Search, and turned the recorder off. In the morning, the clock was correct, the host channel was digital, the clock channel had changed to digital, the channel lineup had downloaded, and I had partial listings for the full 8 days.

Encouraging results with only the clock issue to resolve.

In my latest test, I repeated the same procedure except that I left the clock set channel set to the digital channel when I turned the recorder off. In the morning, the clock had the correct time, but when I turned the recorder on I discovered that the clock set channel had changed to an analog channel and the host channel had not been set yet (the recorder was off for a much shorter period of time for this test since I started it very late the night before and got up early to check on it). Since it was indeterminate where the time zone packet used to set the clock originated, I stopped the test.

To further examine the issue of receiving time zone packets over a digital VBI channel, I forced both recorders to the digital clock channel, tuned both recorders to the digital channel (VBI channel is digital), and left them on over the weekend. If they haven't received a time zone packet in 48 hours, I think that I can definitively say that the recorder has to be off in order to receive time zone packets.

I have an idea for a better way to simulate the digital-only environment so stay tuned;) for further test results.

Update for Fios in Arlington, VA. Pure digital. I am still receiving 8 days of guide daily. All I do with the Sony is power it on at some point each day to check each day of listings. I'm also not tuning to my digital host at all, to make sure the listings are not filling in that way.

The latest wrinkle in this never ending maze- my 250 which was operating perfectly- for the past two days has downloaded listings but only until 8PM.

Starting Friday when only the lines for NBC and FOX didn't fill (for the eighth day), now neither next Saturday nor Sunday are filled at all past 8PM. Pre- 8PM all is filled. Ads are also present.

The 500's continue to get nothing.

In a digital only enviroment I had operated with manual timers for about a week, when I lost my software updates and, thus, lost time of day. It took two days to get the 08.06.44 back. I had to delete all of my timers so software updates would not be interupted. From 00.00.00 there is a two stage process for TVGOS software updating. I didn't write it down, but there seem to be two patches that need to be loaded in sequence to get back to "normal."

I am concerned that whatever reset wiped out my software to 00.00.00 was done by the DVR itself. (I even have the DVR on a UPS.) I have programmed my timer list again. So far, in 1 day the DVR has not reset itself again.

In the process I learned that in the SF Bay area the cable VBI on 2.1 (FOX) is a good source of TVGOS. This is odd, since the OTA 2.1 does not have VBI.

The latest wrinkle in this never ending maze- my 250 which was operating perfectly- for the past two days has downloaded listings but only until 8PM.

Starting Friday when only the lines for NBC and FOX didn't fill (for the eighth day), now neither next Saturday nor Sunday are filled at all past 8PM. Pre- 8PM all is filled. Ads are also present.

The 500's continue to get nothing.

On my two working 500's, listings are sparse past 8:00 next Saturday. I'm on CDT. My 3rd 500 (cable-only) still has nothing, no clock, nothing. My Mits TV with V-9.1.56 still shows nothing also. :confused:

Possumgirl...very interesting take on things - I hadn't thought of this possibility, but I kind of doubt it's what's going on with those streams...here are some thoughts with regard to this possibility:

Most in this thread for the past year or so have thought that, when they "pushed" their units to get digital downloads, it was from the normal, not the vbi-format stream, and I think they're right.

There's no evidence that the SCTE 127 stream even STARTED to be broadcast until several weeks ago, since it seems it has only appeared in a few areas beginning last month, and many of us have definitely gotten digital downloads of program data beginning MANY months ago.

You may be correct and I may be all wet. :D However, since VBI doesn't exist in digital, where has the VBI from the digital host channels been coming from all this time if it wasn't from the inserted "VBI in MPEG"? Does the TVG1 stream contain "VBI" also? I have no idea on that so I won't speculate further. :confused:

In my previous test (starting from a full TVGOS reset), I successfully acquired the intermediate and lastest TVGOS software patches, entered the setup information, and forced the clock set channel to a digital channel. At that point I was unable to set the clock because I was unable to get a timezone packet over the digital VBI channel.

I checked this by forcing my other recorder to the same digital clock channel. While the second recorder was on I did not receive time zone packets on that recorder either. When I turned the second recorder off and then on again a few hours later, I had received time zone packets on the second recorder, but still not on the test recorder, which remained on during the entire testing time.

Changing plans, I forced the clock set channel on the test recorder to an analog channel, tuned to the digital channel, ran a VBI Channel Search, and turned the recorder off. In the morning, the clock was correct, the host channel was digital, the clock channel had changed to digital, the channel lineup had downloaded, and I had partial listings for the full 8 days.

Encouraging results with only the clock issue to resolve.

In my latest test, I repeated the same procedure except that I left the clock set channel set to the digital channel when I turned the recorder off. In the morning, the clock had the correct time, but when I turned the recorder on I discovered that the clock set channel had changed to an analog channel and the host channel had not been set yet (the recorder was off for a much shorter period of time for this test since I started it very late the night before and got up early to check on it). Since it was indeterminate where the time zone packet used to set the clock originated, I stopped the test.

To further examine the issue of receiving time zone packets over a digital VBI channel, I forced both recorders to the digital clock channel, tuned both recorders to the digital channel (VBI channel is digital), and left them on over the weekend. If they haven't received a time zone packet in 48 hours, I think that I can definitively say that the recorder has to be off in order to receive time zone packets.

I have an idea for a better way to simulate the digital-only environment so stay tuned;) for further test results.

You have spent so much time trying to manipulate the Sony in a digital environment, and I have learned a lot from your posts. However, without
analog or SCTE127 in the digital stream the the Sony cannot get a host,grid,or lineup. TVGOS is in process of rolling out SCTE127 in major markets. The Sony needs this source to function properly. I believe you still have an analog source supporting your machine. Until that source is cut off,
you will see what I am talking about. Please do not flame because I present this point of view.

To further examine the issue of receiving time zone packets over a digital VBI channel, I forced both recorders to the digital clock channel, tuned both recorders to the digital channel (VBI channel is digital), and left them on over the weekend. If they haven't received a time zone packet in 48 hours, I think that I can definitively say that the recorder has to be off in order to receive time zone packets.



As you know from my previous posts, I did two successive "ground zero" tests. Both times I got clock set and one time zone packet without turning the DVR off. That only proves that my unit can get time zone packets while turned on and yours can't. :eek: The only difference I note between our tests is that I put in my setup information at the very start, not after the SW updates were received.

Hey Fox, what is the status of your setup.
as mentioned before, I'm stuck at no lineups on the sony but definately getting VBI on 5.1/29.1 OTA.
My Pioneer plasma is connected to cable (comcast) and has had guide data now since 2 days ago. the host ch is set at 78.1 (comcast cable ch # before it is mapped down to 5.1) so CBS is sending data.
The question is if the format of that data is correct for a version 8 Tvgos system ?????
Today I plugged in the cable line into the sony (without scanning ch) and set to 78.1 (CBS digital in all it's glory) and did another G*test (passed) and shut of until tomorrow. This should tell me if the data is just not formatted correctly for version 8 devices or if Comcast is doing something to make it work.
We shall see what happens ???

4 machines ota
1 rebooted last week, lost grid, reset to default, now has current software,
ads, clock channel at 5.1, and passes vbi. However, no grid or lineup. Unit needs analog or SCTE 127 to get it back.
Other 3 machines have current grids and lineup from before PBS shut down their analog hosts. Use G test to fill in guides as needed. All correct clocks and dates on 5.1. Now waiting for CBS to give ok to turn on SCTE 127.
Please post your cable update asap. Thanks

No change with the cable channel !!
Keep us updated on any info back from TVGOS/George.
Sure wish I had not reset this thing last week !!!!!

You have spent so much time trying to manipulate the Sony in a digital environment, and I have learned a lot from your posts. However, without
analog or SCTE127 in the digital stream the the Sony cannot get a host,grid,or lineup. TVGOS is in process of rolling out SCTE127 in major markets. The Sony needs this source to function properly. I believe you still have an analog source supporting your machine. Until that source is cut off,
you will see what I am talking about. Please do not flame because I present this point of view.

I am careful to make sure that I have a digital source when performing tests and specify when an analog source may have intervened. Most testing is done with the recorder on and tuned to a digital channel. The recorder does not receive analog data from an alternate source when it is turned on. If this were the case, I would always get time zone packets, channel lineup, etc. regardless of what I do in my tests since I have multiple analog sources in my area. If SCTE127 is required, then it may already be present in my area. I am using CBS digital 9.1 in the Washington DC metropolitan area as my digital TVGOS source, but I haven't called them to ask about SCTE127. Other than the issue with the clock not setting because I haven't gotten a time zone packet over a digital VBI channel, all other parts of the recovery process have been successful using a digital source. Possumgirl reports that she has had success with this issue and I plan to try what she has done to get around this. Also, as stated in my last post, I have figured out a better way to simulate a digital-only environment. Watch for further updates.

I am careful to make sure that I have a digital source when performing tests

The one time I tried [successfully] to download from a digital host, that evening I had a freeze when recording while playing. Even when the recording ended the picture remained frozen until I did a front panel reset.

My question would be- before attempting a digital OTA download again- is it likely that having an analog host channel and doing a temporary digital download is screwing up the machine somehow which would make it more prudent not to do the digital download and risk one freeze too many: which in this environment can turn the DVR useless.

Since our PBS analog source went offline back at the end of Feb, I've had no listings on my 3 Sonys. One of the engineers at CPTV (Hartford, CT) posts on the Hartford OTA and Comcast sites. He confirmed that their station was going to be providing the digital source going forward. Well, they went "live" last Friday and two of my units are now getting (via OTA) listings and ads for 8 days. One of my units (my only one with a Cablecard) shows the digital PBS station as it's clock source and host. The other one right next to it shows the digital PBS station (OTA) as the clock source but the host has been blank since Friday afternoon.

I did a TVGOS reset on my third unit which is setup near my computer and has a crappy indoor antenna. It is getting sporadic data and has downloaded the first software patch (clock is off an hour). No grid or listings yet - understand that that is the next hurdle to overcome in an all-digital world.

Comcast has (apparently) not setup to transmit the TVGOS data so I'm counting on OTA for the time being.

I can confirm that there are NO more analog TVGOS sources in my area.

The latest wrinkle in this never ending maze- my 250 which was operating perfectly- for the past two days has downloaded listings but only until 8PM.

Exact same thing happened to me in Buffalo market.

My DHG #3 managed to pick up the correct time. Yesterday afternoon I plugged in a pair of rabbit ears and dangled them behind the cabinet that the DHG resides on. I ran an OTA channel scan and confirmed that PBS analog was one of the 5 channels that it barely picked up in unwatchable snowy static (I'm about 40 miles over water from the transmitters). Anyway, I was shocked to find the correct time a few minutes ago. Still no lineup or listings........

For those getting grids I believe it is only because you still have an analog channel available. At day 5 here and while everything is updated and clock is correct I am not getting a Grid. I think there is no telling what the Sony is doing and what channel the data is coming from when you have both a Digital and Analog available. I can tell you for sure at this point it isn't working in Detroit with only a Digital channel available to download the grid. At least I can still set manual recordings with a correct clock.:cool:

Things have been going swimingly here since CBS began broadcasting the digital SCTE 127 stream with TVGOS embedded in it. As you may know, we had our digital transition statewide on 15 January 2009 due to the nesting habits of birds near a primary broadcast tower.

Until yesterday. Next Saturday's listings came up full of holes: "No Listing" for 30 minute segments, after 2:00 PM HST (Midnight UTC), for only selected channels (most of them). Today, the situation is worse, as next Sunday's guide continues "No Listing" from Saturday, but at 2:00 PM HST all the guide data becomes "No Listing".

I am running off of the local CBS digital TVGOS data, I have a HDD500 with G* firmware 08.01.42/08.06.44. The 9012 test shows VBI data on my host channel. Here's something interesting: under the Section VBI Data-VBIDLSched, all of my versions are 100. This is the first instance of 100 that I have read (skimmed) on this board.

The symptoms appear to resemble an incorrect zipcode, or the current data has incorrect zipcode information, so that - while I have time, a grid, and a channel listing - I am not getting any valid program information. I may try a new zipcode later to see if that gets things back on track.

PDT here and the listings are not coming through on analog either. Friday, day 8 listings only went to about 4PM. Saturday, the listings were worse and went to only around 3PM with many channels being "no listing" for all day. Today, next Sunday's listings are nearly non-existent. Yesterday I did let one of my units fill in the missing Friday stuff from digital, but today I've just left them alone.

somebody please help im about to sell this thing because all i do is have problems with it. Both of them dont pick up channel listings and display the wrong time. Also both of them do not work at all with the cable card inserted, every channel says no signal. I have 250 hd's and comcast cable

If your using a Cablecard just unplug it until the the clock gets the right time and then plug it back in. This worked for me after a power failer and my clock was an hour off.

Gregg

You have spent so much time trying to manipulate the Sony in a digital environment, and I have learned a lot from your posts. However, without
analog or SCTE127 in the digital stream the the Sony cannot get a host,grid,or lineup. TVGOS is in process of rolling out SCTE127 in major markets. The Sony needs this source to function properly. I believe you still have an analog source supporting your machine. Until that source is cut off,
you will see what I am talking about. Please do not flame because I present this point of view.

I hadn't finished with my post when the forum started its updates.

I also wanted to say the channel lineup and listings came from the digital source because I had a digital host channel and the last download listed in the 753... screens matched the time in the digital download schedule.

BTW, weren't you the one telling me just a couple of weeks ago that I shouldn't worry about the clock or anything else after an update and that everything would run just fine after the transition?;) I even recall an I Told You So.:D

As you know from my previous posts, I did two successive "ground zero" tests. Both times I got clock set and one time zone packet without turning the DVR off. That only proves that my unit can get time zone packets while turned on and yours can't. :eek: The only difference I note between our tests is that I put in my setup information at the very start, not after the SW updates were received.

In the two tests that I ran where I entered the setup information before I acquired the TVGOS software patchs, the recorder stopped responding to all commands from the remote except the power on/off command and required a soft reset to recover from this state. Initially, I thought that the order of actions might be causing this since I didn't experience this when I acquired the software patches first. However, in a recent test I experienced the same problem when acquiring the software patches first so I plan to try the setup information first again if my time zone packet test shows no increase in the time zone packet counts.

PDT here and the listings are not coming through on analog either. Friday, day 8 listings only went to about 4PM. Saturday, the listings were worse and went to only around 3PM with many channels being "no listing" for all day. Today, next Sunday's listings are nearly non-existent. Yesterday I did let one of my units fill in the missing Friday stuff from digital, but today I've just left them alone.

Both of my units had similar listings. These units use different hosts - CBS HD and Fox 11 analog. Also, I left the digital unit on all night.

Ray

The one time I tried [successfully] to download from a digital host, that evening I had a freeze when recording while playing. Even when the recording ended the picture remained frozen until I did a front panel reset.

My question would be- before attempting a digital OTA download again- is it likely that having an analog host channel and doing a temporary digital download is screwing up the machine somehow which would make it more prudent not to do the digital download and risk one freeze too many: which in this environment can turn the DVR useless.

I don't think that this is the case. I have downloaded schedule updates from a digital channel while having an analog host channel without adverse effect. Many others on this thread have reported using digital channels to download listing data. Since you are experiencing problems with your recorders (the 500s anyway), the freeze may be related to your other problems. In any event, I can understand why you are reluctant to do anything that may require you to perform a reset on your recorders, but I don't think that the download from the digital channel was the cause of your freeze (IMHO).

I think there is no telling what the Sony is doing and what channel the data is coming from when you have both a Digital and Analog available.

In the 753... screens, go to the Section VBI Data- screen (can't remember the title and I'm not home to check, but it's the first Section VBI Data screen), look at the last download field (again don't remember exact field name and still not home), then match the time of the download to the download times on the Section VBI Data-VBIDLSchedule screens. From this, you can tell if it was an analog or a digital download.

I think everyone, including myself, needs to relax, watch the ballgame or give the wife a kiss (or both), and forget about all this TVGOS stuff until June 13th. Then we can hunker down and get this thing working properly. Right now there's not much point, as the TVGOS data itself coming from Macrovision is unreliable and buggy and some host stations aren't set up properly yet. Why give ourselves an ulcer?

My unit still hasn't locked onto a host channel but I am still getting guide data everyday. The procedure posted a while back is still working for me. I have my unit set to record for 1 min from 12:30 am to 12:31 am on a daily record on my digital host channel that is passing VBI data paks, so when the downloads start later that night my unit is already locked onto this channel to receive the guide data downloads.

I forgot who posted this awhile back but it's still working for me and I'm happy. :)

... Next Saturday's listings came up full of holes: "No Listing" for 30 minute segments, after 2:00 PM HST (Midnight UTC), for only selected channels (most of them). Today, the situation is worse, as next Sunday's guide continues "No Listing" from Saturday, but at 2:00 PM HST all the guide data becomes "No Listing".
...
The symptoms appear to resemble an incorrect zipcode, or the current data has incorrect zipcode information, so that - while I have time, a grid, and a channel listing - I am not getting any valid program information. I may try a new zipcode later to see if that gets things back on track.

If I were you, I would hold off on doing that. Many of us (including myself in SF) have gotten listing full of holes for next Sat/Sun, so it is not your equipment or configuration. This has happened in the past on weekends to me and others and has cleared up on Mon or Tues, with the listings returning on their own. If you mess with things too much (resets, change Zips, etc.), you may end up making things worse :eek:

IMHO
Jim

I hadn't finished with my post when the forum started its updates.

I also wanted to say the channel lineup and listings came from the digital source because I had a digital host channel and the last download listed in the 753... screens matched the time in the digital download schedule.

BTW, weren't you the one telling me just a couple of weeks ago that I shouldn't worry about the clock or anything else after an update and that everything would run just fine after the transition?;) I even recall an I Told You So.:D

The Sony guide is going to work after the transition. CBS and Macrovision
have to turn on the required data stream which is in place and almost ready to go. Some locations across the country are already functioning with SCTE127.

No Listing for next weekend (SAT & SUN)

I love this forum because one can check and see if anyone else is having similar problems... and figure out it's not a local issue. It appears that the lack of listings for next weekend is again a global issue and not a local issue. I too did not have listings next weekend except for a sparadic channel here or there.

However, compared to this morning (nothing for next Sunday), it now appears that about 50% of the listing have filled in.

Regards
MK

If I were you, I would hold off on doing that. Many of us (including myself in SF) have gotten listing full of holes for next Sat/Sun, so it is not your equipment or configuration. This has happened in the past on weekends to me and others and has cleared up on Mon or Tues, with the listings returning on their own. If you mess with things too much (resets, change Zips, etc.), you may end up making things worse :eek:

IMHO
Jim

I second the idea of holding off on doing that. My listings here have been very odd this weekend as well. NBC is No Listing for Saturday and Sunday of next week, while almost everything else filled in through Sunday afternoon, but nothing for Sunday night.

Mark

In the 753... screens, go to the Section VBI Data- screen (can't remember the title and I'm not home to check, but it's the first Section VBI Data screen), look at the last download field (again don't remember exact field name and still not home), then match the time of the download to the download times on the Section VBI Data-VBIDLSchedule screens. From this, you can tell if it was an analog or a digital download.

What about HoustonPerson, and videobruce, who are digital only, they don't have a digital schedule (as evidenced by the pictures they both posted). How do they get their digital download schedule to download?

Another question, at what point did your digital schedule show up (before or after your channel lineup downloaded)?

Mark

What about HoustonPerson, and videobruce, who are digital only, they don't have a digital schedule (as evidenced by the pictures they both posted). How do they get their digital download schedule to download?

Another question, at what point did your digital schedule show up (before or after your channel lineup downloaded)?

Mark

Download schedules come from zip code packets. See my post 14923. During my testing, I watched the zip code packet count increase on the VBI Stats screen and checked for a download schedule after each one. It didn't take too many (~12-14 I think) packets until my download schedules appeared. Obviously, it will depend upon your Zip Code how long it takes to get to yours.

You may already know and have tried this, but in case you didn't/haven't.

At the top of the screen, select the search tab. Then, at the bottom of the drop-down box, select Advanced Search. Fill in search parameters and select forum threads.Thanks, but that's what I was using. I still can't find the search help.

In Google you can search for "01.44" and it will find all instances of "01.44".

In the forum search when you key that in it finds all posts with "44" in them.

It's actually easier to use the Thread Tools, download the thread (which opens up in your default text viewer/editor) and use it's search.

I second the idea of holding off on doing that. My listings here have been very odd this weekend as well. NBC is No Listing for Saturday and Sunday of next week, while almost everything else filled in through Sunday afternoon, but nothing for Sunday night.


I think the pattern is that something in the listing data is breaking at Midnight UTC/GMT time next Saturday & Sunday. Is that happening for everyone? I'll hold off on trying to force the issue with a zipcode change.

Is anyone else getting version 100 VBIDLSched data? Could that be the cause of the problem?

Also, is anyone else having problems with TVGOS dropping scheduled recordings? My box seems to hate Dollhouse and Chuck, regularly dropping the scheduled recording multiple times per week. The first thing I do in the morning is rescan my recording schedule and replace ones that have disappeared over night. Is this common or does my box simply find my TV viewing tastes poor?

This makes sense now. I'm in Media, PA (Philly suburb) and have just recently gotten my host channel back. It is now Comcast analog 93 (shown as 1:93-0 as the Host Channel in the 753 menu).

It was confusing as I couldn't tune to channel 93 and digital 93.x are encrypted.

Anyways, this is great news ... combined with the development that all of my extended basic channels are now clearQAM and I can save loads of HDD space recording SD material.

ft

As an update,I went and check my host channel and it is now Channel 94, the analog pass through of digital CBS. Two weeks ago it was the PBS Channel.

Everything seems to working ok. The guide is being updated etc.

ADDICTION

As an update,I went and check my host channel and it is now Channel 94, the analog pass through of digital CBS. Two weeks ago it was the PBS Channel.

Everything seems to working ok. The guide is being updated etc.

ADDICTION

I'm glad everything is working OK for you. Since my post regarding Host 1:93-0, my local Comcast provider has been messing around (of course it could be KYW or Macrovision, but it's more fun to blame Comcast ;) ).

About two weeks ago, my host channel changed to analog 2 (1:0-2), which is the cable analog CBS channel. Around that time, listings became spotty whereas with Host Analog 93, listings were perfect.

I still have the clock, but the listings have gotten progressively spottier, to the point where next Sat/Sun are full of 1/2 hour blocks of "No Listing". I think my listings for next Thursday started out as "No Listing", but they've been filling in slowly. I've begun to tune to the Digital CBS station at night before turning the Sony off in the hopes that it downloads whatever it needs to download ... with mixed results.

Here's something that I've been noticing lately and I'm wondering if it's important.

It seems as though when the Sony is OFF, I'll hear a click at random times during the day. I'm pretty sure it's the click that you hear when you switch from the ANT input to the CABLE input. About 3 or 4 minutes after an initial click, I'll hear another click.

What I'm thinking is that for whatever reason, the Sony is switching over to the OTA input, then switching back to the Cable input. Perhaps, it's searching for TVGOS information.

Anyone experience this too?

...................It seems as though when the Sony is OFF, I'll hear a click at random times during the day. I'm pretty sure it's the click that you hear when you switch from the ANT input to the CABLE input. About 3 or 4 minutes after an initial click, I'll hear another click.

What I'm thinking is that for whatever reason, the Sony is switching over to the OTA input, then switching back to the Cable input. Perhaps, it's searching for TVGOS information.

Anyone experience this too?

I have noticed this over the past several days, but I didn't pay too much attention to it. I can't say that I've noticed the second click minutes later, but I will pay more attention in the future. ;)

Here in Atlanta,GA lisitings for Saturday are hit and miss, Sunday- nothing after 8:00pm, and zip for Monday. TVGOS must be doing some nationwide changes since it looks like all markets are having troubles. Will re-check and update this tonight.
Michael
Also: Local CBS here is still not transmitting digital TVGOS. Has anyone heard when they will be back online?