I think you're right, does that mean I do not have a digital host?
the numbers do go up on the VBI screen, is it just tracking data transmission. I know nothing, really.:) but love my DHGs.

I thought VBI was a analog only thing, digital is digital. In digital, there is no notion of extra space allowed in the analog hortizontal scanning for the time needed for the gun to return back to the top from the bottom for the next frame. (NTSC design). Or am I stupid?
hmm..I just noted in a post above, responding to someone else, that you're right in that digital doesn't have vbi...but the Sony menus, in particular, the G* test screen, referred to counting vbi packets, even for digital channels, which was of course a misnomer and just easier to leave the labels the same as for analog, rather than adding that if you're testing a digital channel, then it should say something like "potential TVGOS packets", instead of vbi packets...of course that's what they could have said for analog channels, as well (oh, well)..

The Sony firmware upgrade no longer has a G* test that works for digital stations, so THAT misnomer is now gone, though I'd have to look through the diagnostic menus to see whether it persists there...

Sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone on here. I'm just trying to figure out why some are having so many issues and some are not.

Actually, I'm sorry - I was just joshing you a bit, as well as telling you as much as we seem to know about the switching between analog and digital that some of us have been putting up with for quite a while...

Just a quick note for those waiting for a digital host channel..

Well, my hdd500 has finally locked on to a digital host channel (1:71-0, FIOS QAM mapping for OTA 9-1 CBS). It's been about 48 hours since I've updated to the .21 firmware and I'm getting full 8 days listing (though the 8th day has some 'No Listing' in the grid). The ATSC Slicer page shows received packets in the HostChan column. C Good count is over 179000, Tot Sections is 72528 and Dummy count is 52484, all received within the past 24 hours (The HostChan column was all 0 when I checked the previous day).

Prior to locking onto the host channel, I was getting partial listings. Not sure how, but maybe the many G* factory tests I ran against OTA 9-1 helped pull down some of the listings. I had no source for analog TGVOS since the local PBS station stopped tvgos transmission a couple months ago. In fact, after the transmission stopped, my hdd500 had numerous resets, some of which caused complete lost of clock and grid. In all cases, getting back to 08.06.44 took a couple of days, but getting the clock back required an additional 48-96 hours due to lack of timezone packet reception. Once a timezone packet was received, the grid filled in within a couple of days.

Overall, it's been a painful last couple of months (no host channel, partial listings, no clock, missing grid, spontaneous resets), but hopefully, with the box finally locked on to a host channel, the guide will be a lot more reliable. Knock on wood.

lawman00:
I am using 60712 and 60190. 60712 is Lincolnwood, and is the same as Evanston, IL lineup. For Comcast cable, Evanston is your best bet, as you will not need to remap as many channels; it has the most channel locations in common with Chicago that I have found. If I knew a suburban zip that had the same channel lineup as Chicago, I'd use it. I doubt that it exists.

Remember, I'm referring specifically to Comcast cable, here. OTA-only requires no remap.
Many thanks! I'm OTA-only, so that makes life a bit simpler in this particular eventuality...

This is what I think about it, rightly or wrongly..... The Preference is controlled by the TVGOS software, not the Sony firmware. Macrovision currently still wants every device (whenever possible) to look for and lock on to analog first. Why? ..... Because analog TVGOS (when available) works. When MV manages to get digital TVGOS working properly, they will send out a TVGOS patch that will nudge every V-8.xx.xx machine that is capable of using it, over to digital. :) I think that the Sony's are now (or will be) capable. :D

Don't take this as fact, because it's just my theory. :eek:
Well, it's certainly logical, anyway. Which of course is no reason at all to assume it's what they're actually doing.

(Never mind explaining why it's taking them so long to get their ducks in a row with digital, for that matter. You'd think the whole conversion thing caught them by surprise, or something...)

Gripe, gripe. Not a lot else I can do at this stage, though, other than wait around and hope things get better. Still beats blowing a grand on a TiVo w/subscription...

FWIW, I unplugged both of my 500's on Sunday to rearrange some things and to dust. When I plugged them back in they had the wrong time. After doing the G* test on my digital host channel twice in a row I got the clock back immediately. Does doing the G* test twice in a row help any?

I have found that it takes a minute or two to get the clock updated while running the G* test. Either letting it run longer or doing a second G* test will usually yield the same results.

You must have retained your guide grid after unplugging. Most users with non-working units are in a digital only area and have lost their grid. I too am in a digital only area with a working unit. Still using 1.2.13 firmware. I am afraid to upgrade to 1.2.21 for fear of losing my grid.

Has anyone had problems with their unit (I have the HDD500) freezing up while recording a program. That is, the remote control will not do anything and the buttons on the DVR, itself, will not function while a program is being recorded. After a program has stopped recording, the remote control functions as normal. I never had this problem until the recent firmware update.Greg, if a front panel soft reboot doesn't work, a "Reset User Configuration" probably will. I have done this on all my units periodically to clear this problem and other issues.

Search this thread or spiffspace's website for the procedures.

................ Still using 1.2.13 firmware. I am afraid to upgrade to 1.2.21 for fear of losing my grid.

When I upgraded my three HDD500's all had Grids and Listings before the upgrade. All had Grids and Listings after the upgrade. The only one of my units that has lost the Grid is the one that I have intentionally run the "Restore Factory Defaults" on. This one reaquired the Grid and Listings in two days (via analog Host). YMMV . . . . .

Should I do the FW upgrade? .

YES



Can you DL it on a Mac?

A MAC person should never be asking that question ;)

Can you DL [the upgrade] on a Mac?

There's a trick to unzipping it. It's in the form of an .exe file which is a self-unzipping Windows archive. On a Mac, you can't unzip it by double-clicking, but you can unzip it with Stuffit Expander. Launch SE, then go to the File menu, choose "Expand", and select the file.

You must have retained your guide grid after unplugging. Most users with non-working units are in a digital only area and have lost their grid. I too am in a digital only area with a working unit. Still using 1.2.13 firmware. I am afraid to upgrade to 1.2.21 for fear of losing my grid.

MySonyBox last power for one hour last Friday. Power came back on. "No Grid" (or anything else). Installed new Sony Software, and the box has been 100% operational ever since. It does flip flop back and forth to and from analogue to digital about every 8 to 18 hours-an exclusive Houston problem; but still has worked perfectly.

Let box on overnight on digitial host 17.1.

No grid.

So for those who can't get their grid back, I wonder if their local host channel is sending out bad TVGOS data?

Let box on overnight on digitial host 17.1.

No grid.

Does this refer to the instructions from Sony to leave it ON for 24 hours? Because it hasn't been 24 hours since the chat with Sony was posted. I'm waiting to check mine until after 1:00 EST this afternoon (24 hours). (Although, I'm not holding my breath.)

Also, did you do a TVGOS reset before doing this (as per the chat instructions)?

BTW - My clock is still incorrect, having been powered on. I got to wondering if the "clock set channel" is different type of data than the lineup/listings data. And, since one can physically see data being processed in the ATSC slicer while it's powered on... just maybe the lineup/listings will populate. Either way, too early to know. If this doesn't work, I am going to try powering it off and leaving it alone for 24 hours without checking up on it every 4 hours or so.

Does this refer to the instructions from Sony to leave it ON for 24 hours? Because it hasn't been 24 hours since the chat with Sony was posted.

You're right. I normally take '24 hours' to mean overnight since all the various data types in the DL schedule happen during that time. Normally grids show up fast when things work. I will still wait.

Also, did you do a TVGOS reset before doing this (as per the chat instructions)?

Yes.

My guess is that if you see counts on g* test your box is looking at an analog channel, is and always has been, don't care if you see a digital channel listed. Remember VBI stands for vertical blanking interval (analog only NOT in digital). And my guess is that it has always been that way. My guess would be that digital TVGOS was not being tranmitted at all back in the days when the Sony DVR came to market, everybody (all markets) were just fine with analog TVGOS.

That being said, once again with the update of firmware to .21 and the box locks on to a digital channel for TVGOS where it was getting it from an ananlog station before, it is most likely that the zip code list for the new station is no exactly the same zip code list as the old station. Result? You may see no results after the .21 upgrade because the zip code you were using is not in the digital stations list. Try changing zip codes.

FYI, So were is the "vbi" data coming from on a digital channel? MPEG3 and above simply put, have this notion of a big pipe with multiple data streams in it, some video (can be more then 1), some audio, and vala some data. The number of each (and tagging) is up to the encoder (and in the case of TVGOS tag the TVGOS data stream properly) If a decoder is looking for something in the pipe (usually the selected video and matching audio/data) it takes it, for all other video, audio, data it is simply ignored. The is how cable puts multiple channels, Dish and DirectV on one cable or transponder. This where the multiple channels over the air ie 5.1, 5.2, 5.3 come from.

For those that claim their setup is working through a digital channel, are you suppose to be getting counts in the VBI test?? Assuming that is true, if you aren't getting counts, can one assume their digital Host channel is transmitting TVGOS data?,

My guess is that if you see counts on g* test your box is looking at an analog channel, is and always has been, don't care if you see a digital channel listed. Remember VBI stands for vertical blanking interval (analog only NOT in digital). And my guess is that it has always been that way. My guess would be that digital TVGOS was not being tranmitted at all back in the days when the Sony DVR came to market, everybody (all markets) were just fine with analog TVGOS.

That being said, once again with the update of firmware to .21 and the box locks on to a digital channel for TVGOS where it was getting it from an ananlog station before, it is most likely that the zip code list for the new station is no exactly the same zip code list as the old station. Result? You may see no results after the .21 upgrade because the zip code you were using is not in the digital stations list. Try changing zip codes.

FYI, So were is the "vbi" data coming from on a digital channel? MPEG3 and above simply put, have this notion of a big pipe with multiple data streams in it, some video (can be more then 1), some audio, and vala some data. The number of each (and tagging) is up to the encoder (and in the case of TVGOS tag the TVGOS data stream properly) If a decoder is looking for something in the pipe (usually the selected video and matching audio/data) it takes it, for all other video, audio, data it is simply ignored. The is how cable puts multiple channels, Dish and DirectV on one cable or transponder. This where the multiple channels over the air ie 5.1, 5.2, 5.3 come from.

My box only has one tuner. My guess is that in the past when I did a G*test, my box was looking at the (one) channel I had it tuned to. (Actually that's not a guess, it's a fact). The prevailing thought that the term "VBI" with regard to ATSC and the G*test was a misnomer. ;)

If you are still lucky enough to have or pick up an analog channel with vbi TVGOS packets IN YOUR MARKET and the box locks onto that channel, this is the count your seeing. I've not seen any vbi packets on g*test no matter how hard I try (Atlanta) after channel 8 PBS went off the air in mid Feb. Now I hear that analog ch 2 is doing TVGOS but my ch 2 reception is pure snow. If there is snow in your picture on an analog channel, THERE WILL BE SNOW IN THE VBI!!!!!!!

History: box lost guide in mid Feb, been manual up until update to .21 and in five hours was completely loaded. Been flawless as far as TVGOS since last Friday.

After a tip from a.b.christie (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16300277#post16300277), about renewed functionality on Comcast channel 90 I checked and found that it was not working in my part of the Seattle Comcast plant. Yesterday I had an online chat with Comcast Rosalyn.39143 about "Some of the head ends in the Seattle Comcast plant are broadcasting Analog KIRO CBS 7 with TVGOS data on channel 90. My head end is broadcasting Analog KIRO CBS 7 without TVGOS data on channel 90." She seemed knowledgeable and understanding but unable to assure me that she could actually get a message to the folks that do the head end work. As a followup, I sent "Feedback to Rick," Rick Germano, Senior Vice President of Customer Operations. This morning my RDRs are waking up to their first clockset packets in weeks and the G* test shows VBI counts on channel 90. I expect to get grids shortly on my upgraded DHGs with no resolution as to whether this could have worked without an analog host.

If you are still lucky enough to have or pick up an analog channel with vbi TVGOS packets IN YOUR MARKET and the box locks onto that channel, this is the count your seeing. I've not seen any vbi packets on g*test no matter how hard I try (Atlanta) after channel 8 PBS went off the air in mid Feb. Now I hear that analog ch 2 is doing TVGOS but my ch 2 reception is pure snow. If there is snow in your picture on an analog channel, THERE WILL BE SNOW IN THE VBI!!!!!!!

History: box lost guide in mid Feb, been manual up until update to .21 and in five hours was completely loaded. Been flawless as far as TVGOS since last Friday.

Larry -

I don't think that anyone hare wants to argue with you, least all me. But if what you are saying is true, then you would have to also say that you will ALWAYS show VBI data passing on the G*test (with the older firmware version) provided there was an active analog TVGOS host in your area. This is absolutely false. Please do not fill this thread with incorrect information.

There is a TVGOS document available that explains the term "VBI" in relation to digital transmissions and MPEG. I added a link to this document 3 posts down from this one. Refer to page 10 of the document.

550 posts since last Friday morning.

Does this refer to the instructions from Sony to leave it ON for 24 hours? Because it hasn't been 24 hours since the chat with Sony was posted. I'm waiting to check mine until after 1:00 EST this afternoon (24 hours). (Although, I'm not holding my breath.)

Also, did you do a TVGOS reset before doing this (as per the chat instructions)?

BTW - My clock is still incorrect, having been powered on. I got to wondering if the "clock set channel" is different type of data than the lineup/listings data. And, since one can physically see data being processed in the ATSC slicer while it's powered on... just maybe the lineup/listings will populate. Either way, too early to know. If this doesn't work, I am going to try powering it off and leaving it alone for 24 hours without checking up on it every 4 hours or so.

I took a peek at my unit before heading out the door this morning, (after leaving it on overnight) and I was suprised to see that my clock has updated to the correct time! Maybe the was something to the instructions that I too got from Lindsey at Sony support, that of leaving the unit on for 24 hours. I did not get a chance to look at the listing but I will certainly do so when I go home for lunch. At least I got my clock back and I can operate the unit as a "VCR". Keeping my fingers crossed. By the way, I did update to 1.2.21 last Saturday, and before leaving the unit on, I did change my zip code back to 92833, from 90012. I will let you know if the clock set channel is still 2.1 (Digital CBS) it was before. BTW my wife told me that Sony called our house saying that they have good news for me? My wife then told them that I already loaded the FW update and asked if this had anything to do with the "good news" they told her that it was in fact the reason for their call.

I couldn't find the link to the TVGOS document I referred to three posts up, so I uploaded it again . . .

Help me understand:
Before mid feb, before PBS analog ch 8 went off the air I used to see packets on 46-1 (never ch8) and the 1023-65534 channel. Was the ch# being reported correctly on the g*test screen?

after ch8 went off the air I have never have a vbi packet or non-failure on the g*test, no matter what channel I'm tuned to and I still don't see any positive results on the g*test, again no matter what channel I'm tuned to, and yet, my guide now works fine.

Logic says that the vbi packets being reported before ch8 went off the air were indeed analog vertical blanking interval packets.

BTW, I'm not trying to feed misinformation, just throwing some ideas that are out of the standard thinking so far, box if you will to help those who are still having problems. Remember I don't care otherwise, I'm up and running fine.

If you read that doc to the VBI specific definitions broken down:

VBI data: Legacy TV Guide data service: setup, lineup, listings, ads

TVG1:Digital TV Guide data service: setup, lineup, listings, ads
TVG1 (ASCII)

notice the difference between Legacy and Digital, my guess is if you want to see Legacy data packets on your DVR they will be labeled as VBI (G*test), if you want to see digital host "VBI" packets they will be labeled TVG1 (see the 753 menu).

Greg, if a front panel soft reboot doesn't work, a "Reset User Configuration" probably will. I have done this on all my units periodically to clear this problem and other issues.

Search this thread or spiffspace's website for the procedures.

Thanks, I will give it a try.

Greg

If you are still lucky enough to have or pick up an analog channel with vbi TVGOS packets IN YOUR MARKET and the box locks onto that channel, this is the count your seeing. I've not seen any vbi packets on g*test no matter how hard I try (Atlanta) after channel 8 PBS went off the air in mid Feb. Now I hear that analog ch 2 is doing TVGOS but my ch 2 reception is pure snow. If there is snow in your picture on an analog channel, THERE WILL BE SNOW IN THE VBI!!!!!!!

History: box lost guide in mid Feb, been manual up until update to .21 and in five hours was completely loaded. Been flawless as far as TVGOS since last Friday.
Are you saying that 46.1 is your host channel as shown under the 753 screens? And I don't know why if you are in the Atlanta area that you could not lock on to analog 2, snow or not. I get some snow on the analog 2, but have not had any trouble with it as a host.
Michael

I couldn't find the link to the TVGOS document I referred to three posts up, so I uploaded it again . . .

Thank you for posting a link to the Gemstar doc. I was going to do the same thing but you beat me to it! :) That doc clearly explains the three data streams that MV inserts in the digital transmissions. The flow charts are helpful to understanding what happens as well. I know some people think that SCTE127 stream isn't happening yet, and perhaps in some markets it isn't, BUT there is a post dated 1/29/09 in the Magic8ball thread where someone used Tsreader and found all three data streams present in the San Diego area host transmission. So it is out there.

I still believe that the G* test on a digital host was "seeing" and reporting that VBI. Perhaps the DHGs never actually used it and were using TVG1 all along. Darned if I know. :confused: The theory that the VBI counts were coming from an analog host when you are tuned to a digital channel just does not hold water. If that were true, you'd be able to see VBI on ANY digital channel and of course, you don't.

550 posts since last Friday morning.

My head exploded at around the mid 300's mark.

Some scattershot responses:

You've described pretty much exactly my own situation... and the question you ask is a darn good one. However, if the ZIP code thing is a possible solution, much as I'd like to know why, it may be worth trying if it works, explanation or no. I'm not anxious to rebuild my channel lineup, but I will if it'll stop the self-resets and give me more complete listings. What are the specific suburban Chicago ZIPs that you've found to work?


I'll echo that. Of course, a lot of this online prospecting wouldn't have been necessary in the first place if Sony had just included a couple of extra pages in the user manual explaining the "hidden" screens and anticipating the digital conversion. Instead, they figured it was safer to assume their users were idiots...


Seems like an odd theory... on the broadcast side, Chicago actually has fewer channels than a lot of other towns, and on the cable side, the 'burbs don't have any fewer channels available than the city. So why would the switch make a difference?


Logical enough. I've only had the lockout-on-replay problem once, thank goodness, and the SpiffSpace procedure fixed it handily. (It also involved rebuilding the channel lineup, which is always a hassle, but such is life.) Seems completely unrelated to the erratic-listings issue, anyway.


Sounds to me (FWIW) like you have an actual hard drive problem, which is something we haven't really discussed much around here. Which I find somewhat reassuring... any hard drive has a Mean Time Before Failure, and since Sony has made it basically impossible to swap out or upgrade these drives, eventually they'll brick themselves for reasons that have everything to do with hardware and nothing to do with TVGOS. Thus far, though, given the paucity of complaints, we can assume with some safety that the MTBF is some ways off yet... and focus on the problems of the day. You may just have an unlucky machine, ahead of the curve, as it were.


Good point. But what would MV be doing differently for the 'burbs as opposed to the city? They're all the same basic broadcast area, served by the same cable companies... the differences in listing should be minor.

---
FWIW, myself: still getting no official HostChan, and eight days of very spotty listings. Particularly curious: on Sunday I had listings for day 8 (the following Sunday), but on Monday that day (now day 7) was scrubbed, all "No Listings." I can't figure out why or how that would happen... I thought new data streams only updated prior listings, not erased them.

Also ironic: across the whole week, WBBM (the local CBS affiliate, and supposed Host station) has more "No Title" (vs. "No Listing") entries in its lineup than any other single channel I can see. Go figure.

Regarding the patchiness -- and I'm just woolgathering here -- but has anybody investigated the possibility that the machine is picking up (or perhaps even MV is passing along data from?) some individual stations' PSIP info, rather than a single integrated program guide? From what I've read, those are notoriously less reliable, since they depend on each individual broadcaster updating its listings.

Just to provide some data. I'm between Naperville and Aurora in the far SouthWest suburbs. I'm been OTA only for the 4 years I've been using my Sony 250. For most of that time, I've had almost no problems. Back in February, guide data started getting pretty spotty as 11 analog dropped the guide and 2.1 picked it up and later lost it for periods of time. There were some fumbles. 11 analog started again and stopped again. 2 analog started providing guide and stopped again. During all that, I had my first ever "lockups". I did a front panel reset. Did the G* test to find VBI on 2.1 (at the time), and left the unit off on 2.1 overnight. The lockups never came back and the guide filled it. About 3 weeks ago we had NO guide from any of the 3 sources for several days. When 2.1 started guide again, about 2 weeks ago, I did the G* test and left my unit on 2.1. Since then, I've had no problems. I did the Sony upgrade, which amounted to another reset, but I lost nothing.

Since 2.1 is on Ch. 3, it appears to be prone to a lot of drop outs, which I presume are because of interference, since my signal strength is reasonably good. Those drop outs can't bode well for the data packets, so I can't wait for the analog shut off so that 2.1 can move to its new home on Ch. 12.

One thing I realize, is that in all the time I've had this box, I've never lost my grid and channel lineup. Partly because I've never resorted to a Full Factory Reset. As far as I can tell for all the anecdotal accounts posted here, the Sony boxes cannot get the grid back in a digital only environment. Unless Sony publishes another fix, I'm never going to do the Full Reset. I have to wonder if a number of people have shot themselves in the foot by jumping to the FFR, espcially if they no longer have an analog host. Consider: Sony says the firmware update is permanent. The FFR is not documented in the users manual. The FFR *does* wipe out the firmware update. That implies Sony doesn't anticipate users doing an FFR.

I doubt any of this helps any of you out there, but at least it's one more data point for those in the Chicagoland area.

Dan (Woj...)

Are you saying that 46.1 is your host channel as shown under the 753 screens? And I don't know why if you are in the Atlanta area that you could not lock on to analog 2, snow or not. I get some snow on the analog 2, but have not had any trouble with it as a host.
Michael

Maybe you have snow, understand the the vertical blanking interval is part of the analog scans not normally shown any TV (normally, go to an analog TV adjust the vertical roll and you will see data in the VBI (most likely closed caption as the data rates are very slow to alow higher data recovery due to oversampling)). My channel 2 is all snow as I am using UHF antenna only (ch2 is VHF and usually gotten via a whip because the lower frequency), the company I used to work for we did data insertion in the VBI and moved it to an audio subcarrier to obtain higher data recorery. I'm pretty sure ch2 is not providing any valid data after the ECC (error correcting check) can no way recover the data in that VBI line.

To answer your original question, I am getting totaly jacked results in the 753 host chan report, 30% of the time its a different channel then I'm tuned to and 70% it is the current channel, and once if was something like fffffd, this last statement only stands for since the .21 update. Bottom line, I don't believe anything it says.

My guess is that if you see counts on g* test your box is looking at an analog channel, is and always has been, don't care if you see a digital channel listed.

Prior to the upgrade, the G* test worked for both analog and digital channels...for analog, it was measuring actual vbi packets for the station you were tuned to and for digital it was of course not measuring vbi, but still packets from the station that could contain TVGOS data. In our area, the only digital station that I found to give a packet count was CBS 5.1, and for analog PBS 9 and CBS 5. Switching from channel to channel, either analog or digital, you could easily see the difference, and it corresponded strictly to the channels from which one could actually receive data and with which a host channel relationship might be established (depending on what Macrovision was up to)!

With the Sony firmware upgrade, the test no longer works for the digital station - which in any case I believe has not lately been putting out TVGOS packets, while Macrovision tries to get their act together. But the ATSC slicer screen is the alternative way of seeing such packets, and there, too I see no activity.

But if you have a unit that has NOT been updated to .21, then I would say it would still indicate packets on a digital channel (assuming there are any). As I have previously confirmed with you, calling them "vbi" packets is a misnomer, but that doesn't mean they aren't there!

Ok... just called the wife and had her check the DVR.
After having reset the tv guide and leaving on for 24 hours, here are the results:

NO DATA FOR THIS SCREEN

Didn't check this beforehand, after the tv guide reset, but the tvgos version read 08.01.71/08.06.44. I'm pretty sure the reset puts it at 08.01.71/00.00.00, but am not certain. If it does, then somehow it got tvgos version updates.

My clock NEVER got set to the correct time.
The ATSC slicer showed ALL ZEROs (0). Which makes me wonder if it was even receiving data.

I wonder if, when one goes into the service menu to view the ATSC slicer data, it should show incrementing numbers before letting it sit On. Don't know. But there was no ATSC slicer data, nor was it incrementing when viewed.

Now, I believe I will turn off the DVR, wait for it to get the correct time. Check the ATSC Slicer for incrementing data and THEN leave it on.

Somehow, EdwinC got a correct clock... just wondering what's different and looking forward to seeing if he got a lineup or not.

I still believe that the G* test on a digital host was "seeing" and reporting that VBI. Perhaps the DHGs never actually used it and were using TVG1 all along. Darned if I know. :confused: The theory that the VBI counts were coming from an analog host when you are tuned to a digital channel just does not hold water. If that were true, you'd be able to see VBI on ANY digital channel and of course, you don't.[/QUOTE]

There maybe and likely a hardware chip to decode HDTV and another chip to convert analog? Possible? Granted not accessable to you and I, but there nonetheless and both chips tapped in to the antenna and powered up all the time?
Anyone have the schemetics for the Sony?

All I can say I was getting G*test packets before ch8 cutoff (on 46-1), none after the ch8 cutoff (on 46-1) and none now (on 46-1, since the .21 upgrade), and my unit was up and complely loaded with TVguide data 5 hours after the upgrade?

My clock NEVER got set to the correct time.
The ATSC slicer showed ALL ZEROs (0). Which makes me wonder if it was even receiving data.
.

With the 1.2.21 FW I was able to get a correct clock in what seemed
like seconds. For sure it was UNDER 5 minutes with the UNIT - ON.

Any previous FW required the unit OFF for about 5 Minutes to get the
clock.

If you don't have the clock - you don’t have DATA. It is that sinple.

I'm pretty sure the reset puts it at 08.01.71/00.00.00, but am not certain.

After I did a TVGOS reset, I immediately checked the TVGOS version and it was still 08.01.71/08.06.44 .

With the Sony firmware upgrade, the test no longer works for the digital station

While it is true that, with the new firmware, the G* test no longer shows "VBI" counts for digital channels, it has been my experience that it is necessary to run the test on a digital channel in order to see the counts in the 753... ATSC slicer page.

[Edit: While it is not strictly necesary to run the test on a digital channel in order to see the counts in the 753... ATSC slicer page, as you may see counts without running the test, it is, IMO, necessary to run the test on a digital channel in order to be sure that you see the counts from that channel, as it is also possible that you can go to the 753... ATSC slicer page without running the G* test and not see the counts from that channel.]

I have run this experiment.

1) change channels away from your desired digital channel to test. This is to stop any currently running G* test.

2) tune to your desired digital channel to test.

3) go to 753... ATSC slicer page. My result is that I see no counting.

4) run G* test.

5) go to 753... ATSC slicer page. My result is that I now see (for channels that are providing TVGOS data) counting.

I still believe that the G* test on a digital host was "seeing" and reporting that VBI...
Perhaps the DHGs never actually used it and were using TVG1 all along. Darned if I know. :confused: The theory that the VBI counts were coming from an analog host when you are tuned to a digital channel just does not hold water. If that were true, you'd be able to see VBI on ANY digital channel and of course, you don't.
Hi, Possumgirl - We can all have different opinions (as well as be confused), but I think there is little doubt that that the legacy stream did not start appearing until January-February, and it is STILL only in a few markets. Whereas MANY of us were seeing packet counts on our local CBS digital stations and were able to DOWNLOAD digital data, either routinely OR by the G*-test/leave unit on method, before the legacy stream started appearing.

Furthermore, in the SF region MV stated specifically there was no legacy stream (because CBS was holding up on connecting it), and that has recently been confirmed independently by someone with TSReader. Yet, when we were GETTING digital data, we could see a packet count from the G* test. So I am puzzled as to why you feel the G* packet count arose from the legacy stream (aside from the fact that it would explain one aspect of the various shenanigans)...we were definitely getting counts here without that stream!

(Furthermore, when I have rechecked (by asking at) the threads relevant to the legacy stream, there are still only a couple of people who have found the legacy stream with their DTVPal's, which confirms 2 things - 1) that the stream DOES work with the Pal, and 2) (though less firmly) that it's really not out there in many places. And actually, I should note that the EXISTENCE of a PID (whatever that is) seen by TS reader does not confirm that data is actually coming down the pipe...2 examples are 1) a lot of these show TVG2, though no data is coming down that pipe, 2) in our area, I don't believe that CBS 5.1 has recently been transmitting ANY digital data (though I may be wrong about that) but I am told that TVG1 still shows up on the TS Reader..well, enough of that..

Of course, I agree with your last statement, and - like you - I've been confused by the switching back and forth between analog and digital that our units have been doing..

cheers - Tony

PS - having done the Sony firmware upgrade on Sunday night, I now have TWO STRAIGHT DAYS of regular (1,2,5,8) overnight downloads, with humongous counts for Type B and C packets from my host channel, still PBS 9...I'm keeping all my fingers and toes crossed!

While it is true that, with the new firmware, the G* test no longer shows "VBI" counts for digital channels, it has been my experience that it is necessary to run the test on a digital channel in order to see the counts in the 753... ATSC slicer pages.

I have run this experiment.

1) change channels away from your desired digital channel to test. This is to stop any currently running G* test.

2) tune to your desired digital channel to test.

3) go to 753... ATSC slicer page. My result is that I see no counting.

4) run G* test.

5) go to 753... ATSC slicer page. My result is that I now see (for channels that are providing TVGOS data) counting.

You left off steps 6 thru 10 . . . :eek:

6) Turn off the DVR (This is to stop any currently running G*test).

7) Turn on the DVR.

8) Tune to a digital station known to carry TVGOS data.

9) Go to 753 ATSC-Slicer page and watch the updates.

10) If you didn't see live updates, try again a little later. It has been proposed (but unconfirmed) that maybe the live updates only occur during a digital TVGOS download period.

You left off steps 6 thru 10 . . . :eek:

Is it necessary to have a host channel for this to work? Hopefully, I'll be able to test that in a few hours. :)

Is it necessary to have a host channel for this to work? Hopefully, I'll be able to test that in a few hours. :)

No. I have two units using an analog HostChan and one units (with no grid, no listings) using no HostChan. It works on all three.

Note: This only works this way if you have upgraded to the .21 firmware.

Somehow, EdwinC got a correct clock... just wondering what's different and looking forward to seeing if he got a lineup or not.[/QUOTE]

I am begginning to appreciate the difficulty of SONY to come up with a universal fix for the TVGOS problem, each DMA is different, and they (SONY) don't have any control about what MV is doing, and to compound it further, MV does not have direct control of what the broadcasters are sending out, they should, but this does not seem to be the case. I hope they SONY/MV sort it out! I am also hoping to be greeted with a channel line up when I get home.

On anther topic, When these problems started back in March, for me anyway, I researched alternatives to life without my DHG250, sadly I have come to the conclusion that nothing comes close,
Just imagine TWC charges $19.00 per month for "local broadcast channels" when we get this free OTA, Ok my antenna cost $65.00 initially and the Sony cost me $195.00 when Best Buy discounted this. For a $260.00 I have free OTA and a DVR. I have been enjoying this for the last 3 years. Let's see $19.00 a month x 36 months = $684.00, then there is the cost of the DVR lease $16.50 a month x 36 = $594.00 well you can do the math. Is there any wonder then that a lot of us is putting up with this?

I’m just happy it works. As you can tell in the first two pictures, we keep the programs to record loaded up all the time. And the box has about 12 recordings in it.

It does seem odd that it always changes from analogue to digital and back once or twice a day, and to see both StID’s analogue and digital DL’s on the same screen are just plan funny. But it works. Officially, the screens say it is locked on PBS analogue for the Guide – sometimes that line will go blank. The clock will change sources as well; but remains accurate. Another odd thing about the actual download tracking is that they often cover a period of 3 days, instead of just the last 24 hours when it was 100% analogue.

The screen that shows C-Errors says it has an error rate of about 12%. According to the Mit’s data, that is signal issues (Houston).

My head exploded at around the mid 300's mark.It would be nice if someone could condense it down to about 10, because that's all it would take to get anything of any actual importance across, at least as far as the update.

Maybe Spiff's website will be better and easier to follow, without all the extraneous, incessant babbling. I really haven't checked it in awhile, but I suppose now would be a good time.

I am begginning to appreciate the difficulty of SONY to come up with a universal fix for the TVGOS problem, each DMA is different, and they (SONY) don't have any control about what MV is doing, and to compound it further, MV does not have direct control of what the broadcasters are sending out, they should, but this does not seem to be the case. I hope they SONY/MV sort it out! I am also hoping to be greeted with a channel line up when I get home.

On anther topic, When these problems started back in March, for me anyway, I researched alternatives to life without my DHG250, sadly I have come to the conclusion that nothing comes close,
Just imagine TWC charges $19.00 per month for "local broadcast channels" when we get this free OTA, Ok my antenna cost $65.00 initially and the Sony cost me $195.00 when Best Buy discounted this. For a $260.00 I have free OTA and a DVR. I have been enjoying this for the last 3 years. Let's see $19.00 a month x 36 months = $684.00, then there is the cost of the DVR lease $16.50 a month x 36 = $594.00 well you can do the math. Is there any wonder then that a lot of us is putting up with this?

TiVo is the BEST of alternative solutions. Unlike SONY the TVGOS is NOT
FREE - but it works all the time and has lots of other NEAT features the
SONY does not. I prefer my (4) Sony DVRs but the TiVo is a good alternative
if you want to give up on Sony --- Certainly it is 10 times better than any
Cable Co. DVR.

TiVo is the BEST of alternative solutions. Unlike SONY the TVGOS is NOT FREE...No, but if you pay up front for lifetime, you won't have any monthly fees to keep track of (or worry about rising), and it's still cheaper than one of these units were when they first came out.

With the TiVoHD only being $150.00 from Sears right now, with lifetime service it only comes to $550.00. :cool:

Of course, if you want to give up the reliabilty, quality, support and extra features, there's always the DTV Pal DVR for OTA.

No, but if you pay up front for lifetime, you won't have any monthly fees to keep track of (or worry about rising), and it's still cheaper than one of these units were when they first came out.

With the TiVoHD only being $150.00 from Sears right now, with lifetime service it only comes to $550.00. :cool:

I know all that :p I bought my TiVo-HD a year ago - immediately
Upgraded the Internal Drive to 1 TB and Bought the Life time
subscription. Also with TiVo it is like have TWO SONY's because
there are TWO TUNERS.

No, but if you pay up front for lifetime, you won't have any monthly fees to keep track of (or worry about rising), and it's still cheaper than one of these units were when they first came out.

With the TiVoHD only being $150.00 from Sears right now, with lifetime service it only comes to $550.00. :cool:

Of course, if you want to give up the reliabilty, quality, support and extra features, there's always the DTV Pal DVR for OTA.

Maybe Spiff's website will be better and easier to follow, without all the extraneous, incessant babbling............

Ummmmm...... Rammitinski...... Guilty as Charged !!! :D:D:D

I know all that :pI know you do - I was just adding my .02 ;).

(I'm about ready to go get one myself tonight. Even if the Sony turns out alright, I still could use it for another TV. Actually, with the newer generation dual-tuner, it will replace the Sony on the main TV.)

Has anyone tried the MOXI yet? "The Worlds' Best HD DVR" as stated above.

Gregg

Guys, Guys, Guys ...... The complaint just above was that this thread is getting out of control, and it IS since last Friday. The Tivo, Moxi, DTVpal, and HTPC's all have their own threads. Can't you take the discussion over there?

Some people are tired of dealing with the issues with the Sony and TVGOS, and are asking and wondering about alternatives. So it is pertinent, at least as long as we're not having in-depth discussions about the individual units. How can they "go over there" unless they know what the alternatives are, first?

Besides, even if this were being brought up in the middle of some important discussion about the Sony (which it isn't), having multiple discussions going at once never seemed to be a problem for anyone here before. At least not for the last year.

I posted this in the TVGOS Devices thread but I wanted to make sure you guys see this too....

On April 14, I sent email to Macrovision’s CE Support complaining about not getting TVGOS service in the Washington DC metro area for my Sony DHG-HDD500 and Sharp Aquos TV. I included Comcast’s “not-our-devices-don’t-care” response in that email.

On the 16, Macrovision sent a response back asking me to fill out a “TV Guide Diagnostics – Version 8” form. Basically I wrote down the TVGOS info doing the 753..procedure on each device and sent it back.

Today, April 22, I got a reply:
"There seems to be a data passage problem in the consumer's area. We will be escalating this to TV Guide's Broadcast Engineers for further investigation into this problem. We will up date you as soon as we can. Thank you."

Keeping my fingers crossed.

Has anyone tried the MOXI yet? "The Worlds' Best HD DVR" as stated above.

Gregg

Cubit100 (ex DHG owner) bought a MOXI. Although haven't heard from him on the forum lately. He must be enjoying watching TV without worrying about G* tests, 753..., .21 firmware upgrade, TVGOS resets, clock set, ..........................

Although, I have to admit. Owning the Sony is a lot of fun. Kind of like a hobby to keep this thing working.

Some people are tired of dealing with the issues with the Sony and TVGOS, and are asking and wondering about alternatives. So it is pertinent, at least as long as we're not having in-depth discussions about the individual units. How can they "go over there" unless they know what the alternatives are, first?

Ummm.... There are always other threads on page page one of this forum asking in effect "What are my choices for recording HDTV", "Why aren't there VCR's for HD", etc.

Everybody is getting tired of waiting for this issue to sort itself out. But if you want to discuss all the other options, why not do it in another thread. Name the options, give people a link to the "Official Thread" for those devices. But please don't clutter this thread any more than it needs to be.

I'm sure most of yall have read this, (see attached) but pay particular attention starting at page 29 on the included diagnostics, although its talking mostly about having good reception on an analog channel, the same holds true for digital hosts as well. If my digital host is 46.1 and I turn my antenna to get better reception on 2.1 (which blocks up all the time) and mess up reception on 46.1 and then wonder why a week later why I have to program listings.... for you OTA folks only. BTW this is NOT the same TVgos doc posted early today.

Ummm.... There are always other threads on page page one of this forum asking in effect "What are my choices for recording HDTV", "Why aren't there VCR's for HD", etc.

Everybody is getting tired of waiting for this issue to sort itself out. But if you want to discuss all the other options, why not do it in another thread. Name the options, give people a link to the "Official Thread" for those devices. But please don't clutter this thread any more than it needs to be.Talking about how frustrated they are with the Sony and the TVGOS, and asking if there are any alternatives isn't pertinent here?

You're right about "being tired" about the issue sorting itself out. But having to sift through all these "personal experience" posts to hopefully find anything of any real importance that would apply across the board on the last few pages is actually even more tiring to many, I'm sure. Knowing that there are other alternatives actually helps to relieve some of that stress for some people.

Cubit100 (ex DHG owner) bought a MOXI. Although haven't heard from him on the forum lately. He must be enjoying watching TV without worrying about G* tests, 753..., .21 firmware upgrade, TVGOS resets, clock set, ..........................

Although, I have to admit. Owning the Sony is a lot of fun. Kind of like a hobby to keep this thing working.
After skipping days of posts, I popped on and found that someone remembered me. My DHG-HDD500 sold on eBay. One of the hard drives died during shipment. I got it back and refunded the buyer. The Sony is now in Laredo Texas at a Sony repair center. Just a month ago I had a repair (new tuner board) done in Philadelphia. Now, the Sonys are done in Texas. Since I was within the 90 day repair warranty, Sony emailed me a UPS label for shipping the DVR back to Sony. I'm hoping it comes back to me with 1.2.21.

The MOXI works great. There have been issues with Comcast. Yesterday, I had my cablecard replaced, which enabled adding Showtime to my service. I have a 1TB expansion external eSATA drive on order.

I should note that about 5% of the clear QAM channels would not work on the MOXI. Thus, one should only plan to use it with a cablecard.

My 500GB MOXI hard drive is at 80% use, today.

Watching ebay sales, the one Sony listing that claims to have 1.2.21 does not seem to be getting better bidding. The best prices seem to be for new sealed-in-the-box Sony DVRs. It is odd that some of these have been sitting on shelves unused this long.

Cubit100 (ex DHG owner) bought a MOXI. Although haven't heard from him on the forum lately. He must be enjoying watching TV without worrying about G* tests, 753..., .21 firmware upgrade, TVGOS resets, clock set, ..........................

Although, I have to admit. Owning the Sony is a lot of fun. Kind of like a hobby to keep this thing working.

A hobby means you don't have to justify the expense or time spent on it. It is rather fun. And this forum is very stimulating. All in all, it keeps us thinking and young. And a great HD recording is worth a thousand words. That's my .02.

I'm sure most of yall have read this, (see attached) but pay particular attention starting at page 29 on the included diagnostics, although its talking mostly about having good reception on an analog channel, the same holds true for digital hosts as well. If my digital host is 46.1 and I turn my antenna to get better reception on 2.1 (which blocks up all the time) and mess up reception on 46.1 and then wonder why a week later why I have to program listings.... for you OTA folks only. BTW this is NOT the same TVgos doc posted early today.
attached?

By the way, in the course of trying to get a DTVPal functioning in its TVGOS mode in February, I found that - in effect - it acts as a high-pass filter for whatever is coming in over the antenna. Analog PBS 9 was filtering through VERY poorly, barely any picture visible AT ALL, but my LG3410a (which is what I was testing the DTVPal for) managed to get enough VBI data from 9 that the unit still locked onto it as a host channel!!! Boy, was I mad!

Some people are tired of dealing with the issues with the Sony and TVGOS, and are asking and wondering about alternatives. So it is pertinent, at least as long as we're not having in-depth discussions about the individual units. How can they "go over there" unless they know what the alternatives are, first?

Besides, even if this were being brought up in the middle of some important discussion about the Sony (which it isn't), having multiple discussions going at once never seemed to be a problem for anyone here before. At least not for the last year.
Yeah, but Ramm...some of us are tired of going through the same cluster of repetitive posts on other recorders over and over again.

We actually COME here to find out how others are doing with their Sony's...big surprise...

If you want to keep repeating the basic info on Tivo's, DTVPal's, etc, it would help those interested in the Sony if the posts on OTHER DVR's would at least have the title "off topic".

Alternatively, whenever anyone has this urge to inform about other DVRs, all you have to do is put this link in your post (you won't have to say anything else!!!):

threads for other DVRs (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=581831)

I'm partly just joshing you, but I think these alternatives would help!

Yeah, but Ramm...some of us are tired of going through the same cluster of repetitive posts on other recorders over and over again.Probably not half as tired as myself and a lot of others have been going through the last few pages of posts about the Sony.

Tell you what - I'll make you a deal - I'll do my best to keep the discussion away from any other unit except the Sony here, and you do your best to edit down the last few pages to those 10, condensed, worthwhile posts I mentioned earlier. ;)

(I didn't even know that HD DVR thread existed - but I'll remember that now everytime someone anywhere on the forum asks.)

After a tip from a.b.christie (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16300277#post16300277), about renewed functionality on Comcast channel 90 I checked and found that it was not working in my part of the Seattle Comcast plant. Yesterday I had an online chat with Comcast Rosalyn.39143 about "Some of the head ends in the Seattle Comcast plant are broadcasting Analog KIRO CBS 7 with TVGOS data on channel 90. My head end is broadcasting Analog KIRO CBS 7 without TVGOS data on channel 90." She .....no resolution as to whether this could have worked without an analog host.

Here in Seattle
1)Connected OTA only. Unit off for 4 days. Clock only, no grid/listings
2)2nd try OTA + Cable + Cable Card. Left powered on overnight at someone's suggestion. No grid/listings. VBI packets on 90 though.
3)3rd try OTA + Cable + Cable Card. Powered off unit. Got host channel 90 cable for the first time in about a month after about an hour
4) after 4 hours, turned unit on and was prompted for a cable company. Answered that and in about 10 minutes we finally got a grid, but no listings.

We ran a 'G*' test on OTA 7.1 (CBS), Cable 107, Cable 7 and saw no VBI packets on any of these channels.
Strange as it may seem, my cable box/DVR supplied by Comcast does not even allow 90 to be tuned.

Hoping for Listings soon.

The implications are that in order for this thing to work the way it is supposed to work, I must subscribe to Comcast Cable with a Cable Card.

After I did a TVGOS reset, I immediately checked the TVGOS version and it was still 08.01.71/08.06.44 .

Perhaps you mean TVGOS "UPDATE"? I've added the USB update and had the 08.01.71/08.06.44, but a "reset/restore" of any kind clears the 08.06.44 to my knowledge. But I could be wrong.

...OTA + Cable + Cable Card...The implications are that in order for this thing to work the way it is supposed to work, I must subscribe to Comcast Cable with a Cable Card.

On your way to this success, did you remove the cable card at some point? I have OTA + Charter Cable + CableCard. In the various permutations of attempts I've made over the last two weeks, I've seen more glimmers of hope with the CableCard removed. It would be much better if I could simply leave it in.

For those who've recommended removal of the CableCard, what is the theory about why doing that should help?

Looking at page 9 of Delivering Data to TV Guide Consumer Electronic Devices (October 2008, Version 1.20), might earlier models of the DHG-HDD500 be unable to download TVGOS updates from digital channels when using a CableCard, even with Sony's new firmware? Alternatively, might CableCards vary in their compatibility with downloading TVGOS from a digital host channel?

Perhaps you mean TVGOS "UPDATE"? I've added the USB update and had the 08.01.71/08.06.44, but a "reset/restore" of any kind clears the 08.06.44 to my knowledge. But I could be wrong.

Nope. TVGOS Reset to Factory Default. Version stayed the same.
BTW, I have a funny feeling that changing the zip code to 00000 is the same as a TVGOS reset - but for the general public that can't find hidden menus. Both came up with the same TVGOS screens you see when the Sony was new.

Nope. TVGOS Reset to Factory Default. Version stayed the same.
BTW, I have a funny feeling that changing the zip code to 00000 is the same as a TVGOS reset - but for the general public that can't find hidden menus. Both came up with the same TVGOS screens you see when the Sony was new.Actually, I think you'll find that you must do two TVGOS Reset to Factory Defaults in a row to reset the downloaded patch version to zero.

I still believe that the G* test on a digital host was "seeing" and reporting that VBI. Perhaps the DHGs never actually used it and were using TVG1 all along. Darned if I know. :confused: The theory that the VBI counts were coming from an analog host when you are tuned to a digital channel just does not hold water. If that were true, you'd be able to see VBI on ANY digital channel and of course, you don't.

There maybe and likely a hardware chip to decode HDTV and another chip to convert analog? Possible? Granted not accessable to you and I, but there nonetheless and both chips tapped in to the antenna and powered up all the time?
Anyone have the schemetics for the Sony?

All I can say I was getting G*test packets before ch8 cutoff (on 46-1), none after the ch8 cutoff (on 46-1) and none now (on 46-1, since the .21 upgrade), and my unit was up and complely loaded with TVguide data 5 hours after the upgrade?[/QUOTE]

It uses the TVP5147 from TI for the analog decoding. It has an enhanced VBI processor that includes Gemstar. There are no schematics.

Here in Seattle
3)3rd try OTA + Cable + Cable Card. Powered off unit.
-----------------------------------------------------
How is this done 3 outputs into the 2 inputs on the sony? Don't you mean OTA+Cable w/Cablecard?

[QUOTE=jengle1023;16321838]Here in Seattle
The implications are that in order for this thing to work the way it is supposed to work, I must subscribe to Comcast Cable with a Cable Card.
---------------------------------------------------------
My 250 works great OTA+Cable. Not upgraded. Plug in card and all channels go to "can not tune" even the OTA.

It makes no sense a month ago just +cable with cable cablecard installed worked prefect.

Still having fun with my hobby, no moxi, Gregg

Ok... just called the wife and had her check the DVR.
After having reset the tv guide and leaving on for 24 hours, here are the results:

NO DATA FOR THIS SCREEN

Didn't check this beforehand, after the tv guide reset, but the tvgos version read 08.01.71/08.06.44. I'm pretty sure the reset puts it at 08.01.71/00.00.00, but am not certain. If it does, then somehow it got tvgos version updates.

My clock NEVER got set to the correct time.
The ATSC slicer showed ALL ZEROs (0). Which makes me wonder if it was even receiving data.

I wonder if, when one goes into the service menu to view the ATSC slicer data, it should show incrementing numbers before letting it sit On. Don't know. But there was no ATSC slicer data, nor was it incrementing when viewed.

Now, I believe I will turn off the DVR, wait for it to get the correct time. Check the ATSC Slicer for incrementing data and THEN leave it on.

Somehow, EdwinC got a correct clock... just wondering what's different and looking forward to seeing if he got a lineup or not.

Ok. I am home and my unit (250) has channel listings for 8 days. I still have to re-do my channel line up because a lot of channels that are active in my area are turned off. Got plenty of time to do this. Anyway, checked TVGOS version it is now 08.01.71/08.06.44. Host channel is 0.2-1 (( guess this indicates OTA CBS 2.1) Could it be coincidence that I got the clock and listings when I left the unit on for 24 hours? Could be, but I will credit this one to Lindsey of Sony Support. Remember when we had the GTest and search for VBI, well my guess is this (leaving the unit on for 24 hours and I might add that I did leave it on CBS Channel 2.1) is just a longer version of that procedure. I am going to enable auto off today and see if I "lose" listings for somedays, if I do I can always turn the unit back on for 24 hours.

EdwinC -

Make it short and concise........ You went from no Grid this morning, to 8-full days of listings (all days filled in) during the day today, with the unit turned ON and tuned to a DIGITAL station?

(Please say YES)

EdwinC -

Make it short and concise........ You went from no Grid this morning, to 8-full days of listings (all days filled in) during the day today, with the unit turned ON and tuned to a DIGITAL station?

(Please say YES)

Long Answer, I did not check my grid this morning so I can't tell you if it was there or not. All I noticed this morning was my clock was correct. To be clear, now that I have re-arranged my channel line up and turned on the channels that were inadvertently turned off, I now see these channels with "no Listing" I am confident that this will populate given time, after all I have just turned these channels ON. Time will tell.

EdwinC-

Ok, so let's step back. You didn't have a correct clock or Grid (no channel lineup) yesterday. You tuned to your CBS Digital channel (like Sony Chick said), and you left the HDD250 turned ON and tuned to that channel since then, and now you have Listings (FULL 8 days)??? :)

What does your HostChan appear to be (753 screens)???

Long Answer, I did not check my grid this morning so I can't tell you if it was there or not. All I noticed this morning was my clock was correct. To be clear, now that I have re-arranged my channel line up and turned on the channels that were inadvertently turned off, I now see these channels with "no Listing" I am confident that this will populate given time, after all I have just turned these channels ON. Time will tell.

It's normal for channels that you just turned on to have no listing until the next listing download. I'm glad to read that you've had such success! :)

Would you clarify one point. You had previously posted that you did a restore from factory default. Was that the restore from the first level of the 9012 menu (that wipes out recordings)? Or was it the restore that is on the TVGOS 2nd level menu?

EdwinC-

Ok, so let's step back. You didn't have a correct clock or Grid (no channel lineup) yesterday. You tuned to your CBS Digital channel (like Sony Chick said), and you left the HDD250 turned ON and tuned to that channel since then, and now you have Listings (FULL 8 days)??? :)

What does your HostChan appear to be (753 screens)???

Sorry just could not resist! If you bothered to read my previous post, Titled Whoo! I mentioned that I did tune my unit to CBS 2.1 before leaving it ON for 24 hours, and yes my host channel is now 2.1 , I also mentioned this on that post. And just for clarification the Sony Chick, Lindsey said it did not matter what channel you have it on. I did not have the correct time as of yesterday at 12 noon, I noticed the clock to be correct this morning. I also updated this post, with another one to describe what happened when I turned on the channels that were inadvertently turned off, these now show no listings. But again yes to 8 days of listings for the channels that were ON!

Ok, If I understand everything correctly this appears to be great news. I'm going downstairs to make some changes to my test unit. Maybe I'll have a Grid by this time tomorrow . . . :D:D:D

Link to my test machine post --> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16300185#post16300185

I now have my test unit turned ON and tuned to digital PBS (the station which previously got me the time and the TVGOS patches while turned OFF). I will leave this DHG tuned on for at least 24 hours to see if it acquires the Grid and Listings (trying to duplicate EdwinC's success).

The only thing that seems a little fishy to me is that Sony Chick implied that the DHG could be "tuned to any channel" and left on, it didn't have to be tuned to the potential TVGOS HostChan. The unit only has ONE tuner, so how does it get the data (if not tuned to the potential Host) ???

It's normal for channels that you just turned on to have no listing until the next listing download. I'm glad to read that you've had such success! :)

Would you clarify one point. You had previously posted that you did a restore from factory default. Was that the restore from the first level of the 9012 menu (that wipes out recordings)? Or was it the restore that is on the TVGOS 2nd level menu?

Possumgirl - Thanks, I too am very happy to get this DVR functional again. To answer your question, yes from the 9012 menu, I did Restore to Factory Default, MSG appears this will erase all your recordings. This actually "restored" the firmware version to .06, which is why I had to do the update to 1.2.21 again.

As you recall I lost the guide back late March, I think it is because Channel 28 stopped transmitting TVGOS and I can't get Channel 11 here in Fullerton. Could it be that 1.2.21 works from Restore to Factory Default, I would say yes. TWC tells me they are not transmitting TVGOS, and my host channel is 0.2-1.

The implications are that in order for this thing to work the way it is supposed to work, I must subscribe to Comcast Cable with a Cable Card.

I don't see that. I've been seeing VBI counts on OTA Channel 4 KOMO. I had no luck getting that to be my Host Channel, but my antenna technology, and wanting to maintain my access to cable only channels didn't allow adequate testing. So OTA only may still be a possibility. With respect to needing a cable card, all channel 90 is, is a way for devices with cable cards to make up for the cable cards redirection of channel 7 (channel 7 now, was channel 9 before) to a digital 480i signal with no "VBI." The analog channel 7 KIRO with injected VBI (it's not in the OTA signal, as best I can tell) is right there on the cable for your non-cable card DHG to tune to. My RDRs are happy campers doing just that. As for your Comcast cable box not tuning channel 90, well, there's just no point.

Ok. I am home and my unit (250) has channel listings for 8 days. I still have to re-do my channel line up because a lot of channels that are active in my area are turned off. Got plenty of time to do this.

Edwin, this is GREAT news! I got to thinking that I probably did something wrong to not get a clock nor any ATSC slicer data for 24hrs. Upon review, I considered that perhaps I needed to be certain the TVGOS version started at the 08.01.71/00.00.00 status. And I needed to verify that the machine was getting ATSC slicer data. Here's what I've done (for a second try at leaving the DVR on):

1. Did the 9012 menu, TV Guide set to defaults
-- clock went to 12:00 am
-- tvgos version... 08.01.71/08.06.44

2. Re-did the TV Guide setup for my area

3. Thinking that, just maybe, Lindsey is using the term "reset" to refer to what the user manual says is a "reset" - i.e. front panel 'exit' and 'tv guide' buttons, I did the front panel "reset."
-- clock went to --:--
-- tvgos version - 08.01.71/00.00.00
Starting "fresh." (with the newest firmware)

4. Checked the ATSC Slicer screen and noticed incrementing numbers - active ATSC slicer. Exited the 753... screen.

5. Left ON... within about 30 seconds the clock went to the correct time on its own. In this case 6:18 pm.

Now that I know I have ATSC slicer data incrementing and a clock that set within seconds (as opposed to never), I think we're on the right track. EdwinC's success appears to be very promising. It may be that Lindsey's "reset" simply means the front panel reset - which does not remove the zipcode setup, but does put the tvgos back to 08.01.71/00.00.00 - which allows the dvr to upload the ATSC data while the machine is turned on. Will update all tomorrow evening when I get home from work.

-- Update --
I'm hoping the restore to factory defaults is not necessary... I have only done the tvguide reset under the 9012 tvguide menu (above the G* test). Will know tomorrow if it works this way without the complete restore.

It works on all three.

Ok, I believe that this works some of the time.

I ran this test. One DHG: power up, tune to channel, go to ATSC slicer page. Second DHG: tune to channel, run G* test, go to ATSC slicer page. My results were no counting on first DHG, while at the same time, counts on the second DHG. My conclusion is that while going to the ATSC slicer page without running the G* test may show counts. Doing the G* test first will show counts, if they are there to be counted.

Possumgirl - Thanks, I too am very happy to get this DVR functional again. To answer your question, yes from the 9012 menu, I did Restore to Factory Default, MSG appears this will erase all your recordings. This actually "restored" the firmware version to .06, which is why I had to do the update to 1.2.21 again.

As you recall I lost the guide back late March, I think it is because Channel 28 stopped transmitting TVGOS and I can't get Channel 11 here in Fullerton. Could it be that 1.2.21 works from Restore to Factory Default, I would say yes. TWC tells me they are not transmitting TVGOS, and my host channel is 0.2-1.

Now that have my Guide back up albeit a majority have no listings, I now have to make this decision, Leave on or turn off the unit?

I checked my system menu and the unit's temperature is showing 102, (my baby has a temperature!) the house is a comfortable 76, so I momentarily turned the unit off. I will come back here to check what the consensus is and think about it.

As noted earlier today, I was happy to find late morning today that my unit - after being upgraded to .21 Sunday evening - had gotten its SECOND regular overnight download in a row (the first being Tuesday AM), so that this AM I had listings - as you would expect - for days 1,2,4,5,7,8, with - I should add - PBS 9 as the host channel.

Well, after just turning the unit on and watching a recording of Heroes (labeled "Unknown", because on Monday I had no listings for Monday), I paged ahead in the TV Guide to make SURE I had a recording set for Heroes' finale next Monday, and found I had listings for Monday AND Friday (which had been empty this AM)...except that there were still a few slots that didn't have normal listings, that said "no title", I believe it was...

So I went to the Diag menus and found 2 significant changes on the ATSC slicer screen: I now had counts in the current channel (with none in the host channel) column, BOTH of which I am pretty darned certain were all zeros earlier in the day. Furthermore, the TVG1 and 2 PIDs now have entries, 0x111/112 (I think I have the numbers right), whereas earlier they both said NONE. I exited the TV Guide screens and confirmed that I still had the unit tuned to CBS 5.1 from earlier in the day when I had been checking things. And, in fact, I THINK that just before checking things on the diag screens earlier, I had tried the G* test on 5.1 (with no counts, of course). But then I had turned the unit off.

My guess is that the changes to the ATSC slicer counts occurred while the unit was on for watching Heroes. In fact, when I exited the screens after noticing these changes, and then entered them again to look again at the ATSC slicer screen, the current channel counts had increased, albeit slightly in the period of less than a minute...

If I'm right about the sequence of events, it appears that - although I have now gotten 2 regular downloads from PBS 9 as the host channel - my unit seized the opportunity while I was watching a recording while it was still tuned to 5.1 to fill out my 8 days of listings...this seems consistent with the other experiences noted above (except that I was already quite happy for the time being with just getting regular analog downloads)!

Cheers - Tony

PS - my host channel is still given as 9; I would update what's said in the second line in my signature, except that there's no space left...)

I'm showing 102 on drive 1 and 107 on drive 2, seems this is about what I normally see.

I checked my system menu and the unit's temperature is showing 102, (my baby has a temperature!) the house is a comfortable 76, so I momentarily turned the unit off. I will come back here to check what the consensus is and think about it.

Is 102 degrees warm?? I often have HD temps up around 105. Maybe my DHG runs hot due to the cabinet it is in.

Now that have my Guide back up albeit a majority have no listings, I now have to make this decision, Leave on or turn off the unit?

I checked my system menu and the unit's temperature is showing 102, (my baby has a temperature!) the house is a comfortable 76, so I momentarily turned the unit off. I will come back here to check what the consensus is and think about it.

I would turn it off, but not because of the temp. That seems relatively cool. ;) I'd just want to know if it was going to start doing normal downloads overnight. Everything seems promising at this point.

Just a heads-up: I discovered when I unzipped the 1.2.21 file (on Linux), I got this diagnostic:

inflating: sony/target.cfs bad CRC b9865e7d (should be 07499082)

I downloaded the .exe file a second time, and this time I got no errors when unzipping. (BTW, the two files did no byte-compare equal.) I don't know where along the transmission path the error occurred.

A comment about Tivo: The hardware's nice, the features are nice, the price is tolerable. But I don't care for the idea that the box phones home and reports everything you've recorded or watched. YMMV.

Dave Kristol

TWC tells me they are not transmitting TVGOS, and my host channel is 0.2-1.

Please elaborate, I thought you were OTA, not using TWC.

Now that have my Guide back up albeit a majority have no listings, I now have to make this decision, Leave on or turn off the unit?


I agree with PossumGirl, leave it off. The hurdle you had to get over was the lack of a channel lineup/grid. You have that now, so your DVR should work normally. Besides, if you can't get listings with it off, you'll have 7 days left to figure out how to get it to fill in.

Mark

I've added the new update from 01.02.05 and from 01.02.13 and once I achieve 08.01.71/08.06.44 I lose the manual recording ability to record channels that are not in the TV Guide list. Sony sees them and lets me tune to them, but TV Guide gives me "not in listings" error. I'm going to try OTA to see what I can pick up, but I'm not optimistic and I'm not going to rent a cable card.

Please elaborate, I thought you were OTA, not using TWC.

Yes I have OTA, but I also have cable, no cable card. I actually disconnected my cable at one point, just don't know the exact sequence of events, it is connected now. Since I don't have a cable card or decoder, my cable listing show cable channel 2 for analog CBS, and cable channel 2.1 for CBS HD,

The only reason I haven't disconnected the cable input is because my over the air signal sometimes get spotty, specially for channel 4 and 7. CBS 2.1 OTA on the other hand is very strong. I hope this makes sense, I am out of here for now. I set the auto off feature back to on at 1am, and as an added precaution, scheduled a regular recording for CBS news at 11pm so that the unit will be on the Digital Host Channel (2.1) as last channel tuned.

Yes I have OTA, but I also have cable, no cable card. I actually disconnected my cable at one point, just don't know the exact sequence of events, it is connected now. Since I don't have a cable card or decoder, my cable listing show cable channel 2 for analog CBS, and cable channel 2.1 for CBS HD,

The only reason I haven't disconnected the cable input is because my over the air signal sometimes get spotty, specially for channel 4 and 7. CBS 2.1 OTA on the other hand is very strong. I hope this makes sense, I am out of here for now. I set the auto off feature back to on at 1am, and as an added precaution, scheduled a regular recording for CBS news at 11pm so that the unit will be on the Digital Host Channel (2.1) as last channel tuned.

I assume the OTA is the host channel.

...One thing I realize, is that in all the time I've had this box, I've never lost my grid and channel lineup. Partly because I've never resorted to a Full Factory Reset. As far as I can tell for all the anecdotal accounts posted here, the Sony boxes cannot get the grid back in a digital only environment. Unless Sony publishes another fix, I'm never going to do the Full Reset. I have to wonder if a number of people have shot themselves in the foot by jumping to the FFR, espcially if they no longer have an analog host. Consider: Sony says the firmware update is permanent. The FFR is not documented in the users manual. The FFR *does* wipe out the firmware update. That implies Sony doesn't anticipate users doing an FFR.
Interesting point. The same is true for me: I've lost the order of my channel grid, and had previously unselected stations pop up in it at random, but even when I had the "lockup" problem I've never lost the grid completely and been stuck with a "no data" screen. Methinks I'll avoid that FFR.

Yes you can go from "No Data" for listings screen to full 8 days listings in less that 24 hours with the new Sony Software installed.

It does not matter if that is from a "power outage" or a "FFR" or the two TVGOS resets.

It does not mater if it is mixed source, analogue and digital, or just digital. The 3 days to fill-in for analogue only source (1,2,5 and 8) remains the same.

It appears it can do this a lot quicker IF the box was last tuned to your digital source. It appears to me it make "No Difference" if the box is "on" or "off".

It appears to me if you Do Not have a reliable digital source (like Houston), then it will flip flop back and forth - analogue/diital - about every 4 to 24 hours; however this has not stopped it from recieving solid reliable Guide Data for fulll 8 days.

IMO, if you are not getting Guide and Listings after the new Sony Software install then there is a problem with TVGOS service and/or reception problems in your area.

I checked my system menu and the unit's temperature is showing 102, (my baby has a temperature!) the house is a comfortable 76, so I momentarily turned the unit off. I will come back here to check what the consensus is and think about it.

EdwinC -

I don't think you're going to notice a temperature difference whether the unit is turned On or Off. IIRC the power consumption of the DVR is only about 2 watts different between on and off. Essentially, it's always ON no matter what. To make you feel better, my oldest DHG in my "theater" room runs at about 113 degrees. This unit is in a cabinet about 80% enclosed.

Seperate question............ I asked last night what station your DHG appears to be using as the HostChan according to the 753 menu. I don't see where you ever answered that question. As of this morning, my test unit (which is now being left on 24/7) still does not have a grid, but only about 9 hours have elapsed.

Thinking that, just maybe, Lindsey is using the term "reset" to refer to what the user manual says is a "reset" - i.e. front panel 'exit' and 'tv guide' buttons, I did the front panel "reset."
-- clock went to --:--
-- tvgos version - 08.01.71/00.00.00
Starting "fresh." (with the newest firmware)

Checked the ATSC Slicer screen and noticed incrementing numbers -
Now that I know I have ATSC slicer data incrementing and a clock that set within seconds (as opposed to never), I think we're on the right track. EdwinC's success appears to be very promising. It may be that Lindsey's "reset" simply means the front panel reset - which does not remove the zipcode setup, but does put the tvgos back to 08.01.71/00.00.00...


No, I haven't checked my dvr this morning...waiting until after work. However, I had this thought and decided to put it here now. As a programmer, I've adopted a motto to work with, that is, "the more complicated the problem, the least complicated the solution."

Now that we have the new firmware, here's what I think the least complicated solution is to get the grid/listings (Note: OTA only, Digital Environment Only):

1. Install the 1.2.21 firmware update
2. Use the front panel "reset" that is defined in the user manual. (I really believe that Sony support is referring to this when they say to reset the guide, thinking about it from the average user perspective.)
3. Turn ON the DVR and leave it alone for 24 hrs (or slightly less). As long as the clock sets, you're probably good to go.

I realize I'm writing before I check my results, but the front panel reset is what gets the tvgos version to the new 08.01.71 starting point (after the firmware install, of course).

Again, just wanted to share these thoughts... because we've all been thinking about it for some time now and I had to get them out while they were clear in my mind. Will update tonight - hopefully with good news.

Now that we have the new firmware, here's what I think the least complicated solution is to get the grid/listings (Note: OTA only, Digital Environment Only):

1. Install the 1.2.21 firmware update
2. Use the front panel "reset" that is defined in the user manual. (I really believe that Sony support is referring to this when they say to reset the guide, thinking about it from the average user perspective.)
3. Turn ON the DVR and leave it alone for 24 hrs (or slightly less). As long as the clock sets, your probably good to go.


That sounds wonderful, and it will be great if it actually works. But it will also present a great mystery. These steps don't say anything about which channel to tune to when you leave the unit tunred ON. And even if the steps did tell you to tune to the potential digital HostChan, the average user you spoke of will have no idea what channel that is. Any we all know that the Sony has only ONE tuner, so if these steps do actually work, therein lies the great mystery.... :eek::eek::eek:

But, how does one know if their digital 'Host' is actually passing proper TVGOS data along??

That sounds wonderful, and it will be great if it actually works. But it will also present a great mystery. These steps don't say anything about which channel to tune to when you leave the unit tunred ON. And even if the steps did tell you to tune to the potential digital HostChan, the average user you spoke of will have no idea what channel that is. Any we all know that the Sony has only ONE tuner, so if these steps do actually work, therein lies the great mystery.... :eek::eek::eek:

Yes, you're right. I do know that Lindsey stated that it didn't matter what channel you were tuned to. So how the ATSC slicer knows what's up in that case is a mystery if that works. My advantage is that we have no glut in this market - only one reachable OTA CBS station in the area. Maybe the fact that the average user may not know what station is the reason they somehow programmed the new firmware to "not care." Who knows? It appears though that the rules have changed. She also said that Sony recommends to leave the DVR in the (newly defined) 'standby' state. With all the electronics we all probably own, has anyone ever heard of 'standby' used to mean "ON"?

Well I did all the steps that BM4wood did and no help at all. I'm ota and 100% digital . It was wishfull thinking but nada. I think that possumgirl had it right. The 8.xx.xx firmware won't load the channel grid. It won't work in a 100% digital mode period.. I suggest that if you can still get analog data record it on vhs as a back up to help the dhg recover from a factory reset. Keep the tape untill Sony releases new firmware. I'm still waiting on Sony to call me Friday to tell me what Sony plans to do. I still think that MV is the problem.

But, how does one know if their digital 'Host' is actually passing proper TVGOS data along??

Error codes will be thrown out (recorded) in several of the information screens; particularly on the ATSC slicer page. If it is really bad data, the box can also go through numerous self resets, and those are recorded on the error tracking page - date, coded, and time stamped.

It should be noted that, with all of the hands in the cookie jar, yes, the results may be dependent upon the local CBS station and Macrovision for the area. The 3 step process is assuming everything else is in order. :) And we all know how difficult that may be.

Well I did all the steps that BM4wood did and no help at all. I'm ota and 100% digital . It was wishfull thinking but nada. I think that possumgirl had it right. The 8.xx.xx firmware won't load the channel grid. It won't work in a 100% digital mode period.. I suggest that if you can still get analog data record it on vhs as a back up to help the dhg recover from a factory reset. Keep the tape untill Sony releases new firmware. I'm still waiting on Sony to call me Friday to tell me what Sony plans to do. I still think that MV is the problem.

I believe it is Mark in Kansas? and a couple of others in 100% digital that are not having problems at all. He has documented a solid lock on digital.

MySonyBox wants to lock into digital; but keeps reverting back to analogue.

AFAIK, it is only doing this because of the FCC "mess" created. That "mess" affects about 60% or more of the USA population. And many cable providers get their data from local stations as well. So if a cable company cannot get get good data, they can not pass it on.

Well I did all the steps that BM4wood did and no help at all.

My first try failed as well. But I did that without doing the front panel reset. Don't know my specific current results as of yet. I think EdwinC's success is the current baseline.

Now that we have the new firmware, here's what I think the least complicated solution is to get the grid/listings (Note: OTA only, Digital Environment Only):

1. Install the 1.2.21 firmware update
2. Use the front panel "reset" that is defined in the user manual. (I really believe that Sony support is referring to this when they say to reset the guide, thinking about it from the average user perspective.)
3. Turn ON the DVR and leave it alone for 24 hrs (or slightly less). As long as the clock sets, you're probably good to go.


That sounds wonderful, and it will be great if it actually works. But it will also present a great mystery. These steps don't say anything about which channel to tune to when you leave the unit tunred ON. And even if the steps did tell you to tune to the potential digital HostChan, the average user you spoke of will have no idea what channel that is. Any we all know that the Sony has only ONE tuner, so if these steps do actually work, therein lies the great mystery.... :eek::eek::eek:


Perhaps the answer lies somewhere in between when the DVR is turned on and left alone after a front panel reset:

If it is set to the correct channel, the system need do no further searching/testing to find the data... just wait for updates and truck on down.

If, however, it is NOT set to the correct station, leaving the unit on may prevent ever finding it (owing to its single tuner).

Soooo... if you are certain of the correct channel (ya' feeling luck today?), do a front panel reset/setup then set to the channel and let it do its thing. If you are unsure of the correct channel, do the front panel reset/setup then turn OFF the DVR to allow it to find the channel on its own... more time-consuming, but what they hey!

Two caveats:

Do not interupt the DVR during this interval as the processor has always seemed to be operationally "challenged", often g when asked to perform multiple tasks.

It's possible that maybe, just maybe, the cable operators/stations are still AFU and any attempts to resurrect the data are obviously futile until they get their sh*t squared away (I suspect a great many of us may have been chasing our tails, trying to lock on to data that just is not there to lock on to!)

I have not had a guide in a month. I do not have the grid icons. I did the upgrade. Even though my PBS station says they pass all the Tests to pass the TV Guide data on, they do not have a decoder to prove it. I think the signal is at fault an don't even know if it is being received by my HDD250. I feel like I am in a digital world and there is just one digit.

Error codes will be thrown out (recorded) in several of the information screens; particularly on the ATSC slicer page. If it is really bad data, the box can also go through numerous self resets, and those are recorded on the error tracking page - date, coded, and time stamped.I wasn't really referring to errors within the data stream, I was referring to the absense of the stream itself.
I believe this stream is either missing or corrupted enough it won't allow a receiver to update and ID a host.

Well I was able to check the two DHGs at my girlfriends house last night. Channel 97 on cable is now the host channel. It has CBS as the station, which is digital 46.1 ota being used. I get 200+ packets per minute under the G* test. The Pioneer Elite TVGOS shows cable channel 9 as the host. Not sure if this tv is able to lock onto a digital host. The analog dvr she has is also getting data. So it looks like Comcast is passing TVGOS in both forms--analog and digital. I do not know how to verify this unless I can get one of the engineers at Comcast to ask. But from what I have been told, Comcast will be passing TVGOS even after all the digital transistion and from this I can only conclude that is the case.
When I get a chance I will do the upgrade to .21 to see if anything changes with her two DHGs. Have not been able to get my USB ports on my computer to work with a thumb drive for some reason. All my other scanners, printers.etc.. work, just not that.
Michael

I've got a headache.

Who here wants to write the Sony DVR for Dummies book.

Hell, make it four books.

For Dummies who have only cable analog.

For Dummies who have only OTA digital

For Dummies who have OTA mixed analog and digital

For Dummies who are doing well now with cable analog but have no clue what will happen after the digital transition. (The book this dummy will buy.)

Make that seven books.

For Dummies who can't get any signal.

For Dummies who seem to be getting a signal but can't get listings no matter what they do.

For Dummies who have given up and are selling it on e-bay.

Another book added after AtlantisMichael's last post.

For Dummies who are getting both analog and digitial from cable.

Add;
For Dummies who buy one off of e-bay. :D

[QUOTE=Opinionated;16326661]I've got a headache.

Who here wants to write the Sony DVR for Dummies book.

Not to be OT, but:
Well for that to work, one would need to actually read them. It is so much easier to just log in here and ask questions that have been asked and answered time and time again. Very few people now have been taught the patience and discipline to do any reasearch that requires any real reading. This forum has a search tool, but if you do not know how to use it, you get a lot of different hits to your inquiry. And as long as we pony up answers so easily, why would anyone bother to look elsewhere.
I think we should form a union ( those with all the answers) and send a bill to Sony and Macrovision for all of the work that is done here.
Michael

My 250 works great OTA+Cable. Not upgraded. Plug in card and all channels go to "can not tune" even the OTA.

It makes no sense a month ago just +cable with cable cablecard installed worked prefect.


My 500 hasn't worked "great" since early April, and the 1.2.21 firmware update hasn't helped. My successes at acquiring 08.06.44 have happened with OTA + Cable w/o CableCard. If I insert the CableCard, progress stops. Also, if I do any of the other resets (front panel, 9012, fudged ZIP codes, etc.) with the CableCard in place, I acquire neither 08.06.44 nor UTC Time. This makes me worry that either my 500 or my CableCard make the "w/ CableCard" combo ineffective at getting TVGOS from a digital host.

Looking at page 9 of Delivering Data to TV Guide Consumer Electronic Devices (October 2008, Version 1.20), might earlier models of the DHG-HDD250/500 be unable to download TVGOS updates from a digital host channel when using a CableCard, even with Sony's new firmware? Alternatively, might some CableCards prevent the downloading of TVGOS data from a digital host channel? If so, this could be the cause of our "w/ CableCard" problem.

also:

For Dummies who got data the last 3 days and think they're in 7th heaven

AtlantisMichael; That book should be addressed to Macrovision. A better title would/should be: "A Intelligent guide to TVGOS". That would be for us.

Add sending the bill to Mitsubishi also.

=AtlantisMichael;16326816]

It is so much easier to just log in here and ask questions that have been asked and answered time and time again.

You would think that, but practically, with so many having unique experiences, it doesn't seem to be certain.

My current dilemma starts with all three units now working perfectly. All getting analog from Cablevision without a cable card.

Not knowing what the future will bring, digital transition and all, and Cablevision's whims, should I attempt to update the firmware.

Is it better to update now when all is working well- in preparation of what may come?

It will do me no immediate good or difference but can anyone assure me that it also won't do any harm.

EdwinC -

I don't think you're going to notice a temperature difference whether the unit is turned On or Off. IIRC the power consumption of the DVR is only about 2 watts different between on and off. Essentially, it's always ON no matter what. To make you feel better, my oldest DHG in my "theater" room runs at about 113 degrees. This unit is in a cabinet about 80% enclosed.

Seperate question............ I asked last night what station your DHG appears to be using as the HostChan according to the 753 menu. I don't see where you ever answered that question. As of this morning, my test unit (which is now being left on 24/7) still does not have a grid, but only about 9 hours have elapsed.

The host channel is listed as 0.2-1 which to me indicates it is CBS digital OTA. Over the weekend I spoke to some TWC technicians that were on a service call in my area and asked them if TWC was transmitting TVGOS, and they said not in Fullerton. This is where I based my conculsion, as I earlier indicated I also have a direct cable feed (no cable card) to the unit.

When I left this morning I turned the unit on and I was greeted with an option to select my cable provider, there were 3 listed AT&T Uverse, TWC and I forgot what the 3rd one is. I selected TWC and turned off the unit. BTW the channel line up has not changed from last night, a lot of no listings for the channels that I had just turned on (last night) My guess is that the unit needed the cable provider to be selected before the listings can be updated. If the listing don't get updated by noon, I will try leaving the unit turned on to 2.1 OTA and see what happens.

My 500 hasn't worked "great" since early April, and the 1.2.21 firmware update hasn't helped. My successes at acquiring 08.06.44 have happened with OTA + Cable w/o CableCard. If I insert the CableCard, progress stops. Also, if I do any of the other resets (front panel, 9012, fudged ZIP codes, etc.) with the CableCard in place, I acquire neither 08.06.44 nor UTC Time. This makes me worry that either my 500 or my CableCard make the "w/ CableCard" combo ineffective at getting TVGOS from a digital host.

Looking at page 9 of Delivering Data to TV Guide Consumer Electronic Devices (October 2008, Version 1.20), might earlier models of the DHG-HDD250/500 be unable to download TVGOS updates from a digital host channel when using a CableCard, even with Sony's new firmware? Alternatively, might some CableCards prevent the downloading of TVGOS data from a digital host channel? If so, this could be the cause of our "w/ CableCard" problem.

My Comcast Motorola M-Card gets TVGOS data on PBS Digital Channel 240. Since I also have an analog source back on line here in CT, it flips between this channel, analog PBS and OTA analog PBS as the host.

I think we should form a union ( those with all the answers) and send a bill to Sony and Macrovision for all of the work that is done here.


Yeah, but first we have to figure out who among us has all the CORRECT answers. :D

Well I was able to check the two DHGs at my girlfriends house last night. Channel 97 on cable is now the host channel.

This appears to be Comcast's template for delivering Analog TVGOS for legacy devices. If your cable card DHG were to tune to channel 9, you would get a digital 480i version of WGCL with no TVGOS. Channel 97 allows your cable card DHG access to an Analog WGCL signal with embedded TVGOS data inserted by Comcast. WGCL does not broadcast OTA on channel 9. Non-cable card, cable ready devices will see this analog WGCL signal directly on channel 9.

You can test this by tuning to channel 97 then going to Menu/Preferences/System/Diagnostics. You should see Frequency: 189.000 MHz and Mode/Rate: Analog.

Yeah, but first we have to figure out who among us has all the CORRECT answers. :D
Who said they had to be correct answers?
It would be helpful though if more complete information was provided by each of the manufacturers using TVGOS as well as Macrovision. If they invested a little time just in reviewing this forum and the problems that have been brought to light here, they could then post a page on their web site for solutions to common problems or direct you to who you need to contact in your area and such.
Michael

[QUOTE=Opinionated;16326661]I've got a headache.

Who here wants to write the Sony DVR for Dummies book.

Not to be OT, but:
Well for that to work, one would need to actually read them. It is so much easier to just log in here and ask questions that have been asked and answered time and time again. Very few people now have been taught the patience and discipline to do any reasearch that requires any real reading. This forum has a search tool, but if you do not know how to use it, you get a lot of different hits to your inquiry. And as long as we pony up answers so easily, why would anyone bother to look elsewhere.
I think we should form a union ( those with all the answers) and send a bill to Sony and Macrovision for all of the work that is done here.
Michael
I'll be humbled in awe if you bring your machine down to my market and then say "SEE" I have a feeling Macrovision is the problem. One problem is that most of the post have different markets.

I wasn't really referring to errors within the data stream, I was referring to the absense of the stream itself.
I believe this stream is either missing or corrupted enough it won't allow a receiver to update and ID a host.

Correct, if the data stream is missing there will be nothing to report, if it is receiving corrupted and/or incomplete digital data it will tell you that too.

That is I guess we are talking about the same thing? I think?

This appears to be Comcast's template for delivering Analog TVGOS for legacy devices. If your cable card DHG were to tune to channel 9, you would get a digital 480i version of WGCL with no TVGOS. Channel 97 allows your cable card DHG access to an Analog WGCL signal with embedded TVGOS data inserted by Comcast. WGCL does not broadcast OTA on channel 9. Non-cable card, cable ready devices will see this analog WGCL signal directly on channel 9.

You can test this by tuning to channel 97 then going to Menu/Preferences/System/Diagnostics. You should see Frequency: 189.000 MHz and Mode/Rate: Analog.
Thanks, had not even thought about that. I wll get my girlfriend to check it when she gets home. So, if it is digital, then it should show up as QAM. Channel 46.1, digital broadcast is suppose to be the host channel after the analog shutoff. From what you are saying, it sounds like the cable system is converting the digital TVGOS to an analog one. Is that correct?
Thanks, Michael
I have checked the Pioneer tv (cable ready,non cable card) and nothing on channel 9 as tune there, only on 97. But, under the 753 screens, host show up as cable channel 9.

Thanks, had not even thought about that. I wll get my girlfriend to check it when she gets home. So, if it is digital, then it should show up as QAM. Channel 46.1, digital broadcast is suppose to be the host channel after the analog shutoff. From what you are saying, it sounds like the cable system is converting the digital TVGOS to an analog one. Is that correct?
Thanks, Michael
I have checked the Pioneer tv (cable ready,non cable card) and nothing on channel 9 as tune there, only on 97. But, under the 753 screens, host show up as cable channel 9.

I believe Comcast is getting its own feed from Gemstar/MacroVision and doing the insertion after converting the WGCL signal to Analog. Not sure what to tell you about your Pioneer. AFAIK, only digital signals can have a different display channel than their frequency's channel number. We live to learn. :)

I believe Comcast is getting its own feed from Gemstar/MacroVision and doing the insertion after converting the WGCL signal to Analog. Not sure what to tell you about your Pioneer. AFAIK, only digital signals can have a different display channel than their frequency's channel number. We live to learn. :)
Well you see, that's just it. From all the information I received, I understood it to be a problem from the local CBS broadcaster with the encoder and therefore the cable did not have anything to pass on. Not really sure as to who did what, but I have tried to find out from both Macrovision and Comcast as to how TVGOS is handled here. Just seems that when 46.1 CBS local shut off the encoder, that is when all the problems began with Comcast. So it leads me to think that Comcast does get the TVGOS from the local broadcast station.
In the past, that channel 97 was a PBS station who carried the analog version of TVGOS. Now 97 is the CBS station. Only shows up on the digital sets, not the old analog sets.
Update: Channel 97 is indeed showing it as an analog channel. Therefore and somehow Comcast (I guess) has inserted/converted? the digital data from CBS? Still unclear on this, but at least it is working.
Michael

Link to my post in the HPTC forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16327945&posted=1#post16327945

Upgraded my HDD250 last Sunday evening. Uneventfull, listings stayed fully populated. Used a Kingston 2 GB data traveler. System menu lists the upgraded software.

Next day found the VBI host switched from TWC ch 11 KPBS to ch 6 XETV. Both are known to carry VBI TVG data. Moreover XETVDT is known to carry the digital TVG data. Verified with TSReader. See here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15685397&postcount=67
Ant 1 is OTA rooftop UHF ant, Ant2 is TWC analog cable basic + extended, no cable card.

The fact that I encountered zero problems with TVGOS before and after the upgrade has convinced me that those TVGOS failures reported here must be due to errors in TVG data insertion on the part of Macrovision and/or the TV station engineers in the various DMA's around the US.

My 250 has operated without TVG problems for 2.5 years except for a corrupted TVG data incident about 4 months ago which was corrected using the procedure on Spiff's forum. Except for that one incident I have never performed any of the 9012 resets or indeed any reset including any attempt to force a digital host

After a tip from a.b.christie (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16300277#post16300277), about renewed functionality on Comcast channel 90 I checked and found that it was not working in my part of the Seattle Comcast plant. Yesterday I had an online chat with Comcast Rosalyn.39143 about "Some of the head ends in the Seattle Comcast plant are broadcasting Analog KIRO CBS 7 with TVGOS data on channel 90. My head end is broadcasting Analog KIRO CBS 7 without TVGOS data on channel 90." She seemed knowledgeable and understanding but unable to assure me that she could actually get a message to the folks that do the head end work. As a followup, I sent "Feedback to Rick," Rick Germano, Senior Vice President of Customer Operations. This morning my RDRs are waking up to their first clockset packets in weeks and the G* test shows VBI counts on channel 90. I expect to get grids shortly on my upgraded DHGs with no resolution as to whether this could have worked without an analog host.


And many cable providers get their data from local stations as well. So if a cable company cannot get get good data, they can not pass it on.

Very true. Cable company's need data to pass it. They can either send it on digital channel(s), analog channel(s), both or neither. Subako's experience shows they can take the information from a digital channel and covert/send it out over a analog channel. Even within the same Seattle are market, the different "head ends" were configured differently.

Well you see, that's just it. From all the information I received, I understood it to be a problem from the local CBS broadcaster with the encoder and therefore the cable did not have anything to pass on. Not really sure as to who did what, but I have tried to find out from both Macrovision and Comcast as to how TVGOS is handled here. Just seems that when 46.1 CBS local shut off the encoder, that is when all the problems began with Comcast. So it leads me to think that Comcast does get the TVGOS from the local broadcast station.


I think you are correct. My understanding is the cable company relies on the local CBS/PBS stations to insert the information and they pass this on directly or convert and insert onto a analog station. I'm not sure if Macrovision works directly with Cable co's to insert the TVGOS information.

Well you see, that's just it. From all the information I received, I understood it to be a problem from the local CBS broadcaster with the encoder and therefore the cable did not have anything to pass on.
Michael

Bingo!!

Its starting to appear that the new firmware upgrade only does a couple of things:
1) allow newer TVGOS v.8.x downloads
2) favor digital streams over analog (and thats only a "maybe"-not confirmed)

That may be all that Sony can do short of recalling every unit and updating
hardware and software to work with TVGOs v.9. Maybe not even possible.

If we are to believe some of our posters that claim that their units are
working in an all digital environment without even a sniff of analog TVGOS
or cable, it would seem that MV has done their job.

This brings us down to your local CBS station. I'd wager if you called up
your local station they would swear up and down that they ARE sending
the digital TVGOS stream and they are but its only compatible with v.9
hardware. I bought a Sony XBR tv last december and the guide has been
flawless from day 1.....well, day 2 when the listings appeared. It has
TVGOSv.9. Meanwhile, the HDD250 has no listings.
They aren't sending the stream (SCTE-127?) that supports our legacy
equipment. I don't know if its a cost consideration, ignorance or they just
don't care but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will work itself out.

On or Off? My 250 is working great without the update after
many weeks of no listing, lockups and reboots. Having said that,
if you turn it off and listen in a quiet room for several hours you will
hear the air- cable relay click on and off very often. This proves to me
that the unit is searching all the time for who knows what?
Obviosly this only applies if you have OTA and cable.

Well, I really thought I'd be reporting something totally different than I am right now. However, when I checked the DVR after getting home from work I found that:

1. The tvgos version updated to 08.01.71/08.05.40
2. The ATSC Slicer screen was all Zeros again
3. No Ads/No lineup/No Listings/No Data for this Screen

It seems that once the preparation update got loaded, the DVR stopped processing ATSC Slicer data. Not only that, but the ATSC Slicer got completely reset to zero.

I powered off the DVR and powered it back on. Checked the slicer and it started incrementing again. Partial good news is that there were no rejected scheds...etc. packets and no skipped TVG1 packets. So, maybe it'll still do what it's suppose to do after turning it off and back on. (This may be the new version of running the G* test after each update to get it going. ??) I guess I'll just keep checking until such a time that there are ads with no lineup. Now I'm just bummed. :( EdwinC must have connections with the special DVR gods.

Well, I really thought I'd be reporting something totally different than I am right now. However, when I checked the DVR after getting home from work I found that:

1. The tvgos version updated to 08.01.71/08.05.40
2. The ATSC Slicer screen was all Zeros again
3. No Ads/No lineup/Listings/No Data for this Screen

It seems that once the preparation update got loaded, the DVR stopped processing ATSC Slicer data. Not only that, but the ATSC Slicer got completely reset to zero.

I powered off the DVR and powered it back on. Checked the slicer and it started incrementing again. Partial good news is that there were no rejected scheds...etc. packets and no skipped TVG1 packets. So, maybe it'll still do what it's suppose to do after turning it off and back on. (This may be the new version of running the G* test after each update to get it going. ??) I guess I'll just keep checking until such a time that there are ads with no lineup. Now I'm just bummed. :( EdwinC must have connections with the special DVR gods.


From what I remember you are OTA only with a digital TVGOS source, and no analog channels broadcasting TVGOS. If this is right, I believe that eventually your unit will get listings. I believe you said your clock has the right time, so you can still use your unit as a DVR for now. From what I recall my TVGOS version updated to 06 before I got the clock and grid. I thought that your unit also updated to the .06 version, from your post above it would seem it reverted back to 08.01.71/08.05.40. I don't know what could have caused this, mybe a soft reset? From what I understand the 06 version is the key to getting correct time and grid. Again, leaving the unit on for 24 hours tuned to 2.1 (my digital host) and getting correct clock and grid may have been pure coincidence. Please note that I installed the .21 FW upgrade last Saturday, then did a Restore to Factory Default, which caused the FW update (.21) to be erased. So I had to do it over again. Tuesday, Sony support said to leave the unit on after setting TV Guide info, Zip code, clock then had --:--, I then did a front panel soft reset, got the clock but wrong time. Left the unit on overnight, Wednesday morning noticed that I had correct clock, came hope later yesterday and I had grid with 8 days of listings for the channels that was in the grid. Re arranged my channel line up, a lot of channels were off, turned desired channels to ON nad turned unit OFF, Checked (Turned on ) unit today, I was greeted with a message to choose my cable provider, made my selection, and turned off unit. These channels still show no listing as of noon today

From what I remember you are OTA only with a digital TVGOS source, and no analog channels broadcasting TVGOS. If this is right, I believe that eventually your unit will get listings. I believe you said your clock has the right time, so you can still use your unit as a DVR for now. From what I recall my TVGOS version updated to 06 before I got the clock and grid. I thought that your unit also updated to the .06 version, from your post above it would seem it reverted back to 08.01.71/08.05.40. I don't know what could have caused this, mybe a soft reset? From what I understand the 06 version is the key to getting correct time and grid. Again, leaving the unit on for 24 hours tuned to 2.1 (my digital host) and getting correct clock and grid may have been pure coincidence. Please note that I installed the .21 FW upgrade last Saturday, then did a Restore to Factory Default, which caused the FW update (.21) to be erased. So I had to do it over again. Tuesday, Sony support said to leave the unit on after setting TV Guide info, Zip code, clock then had --:--, I then did a front panel soft reset, got the clock but wrong time. Left the unit on overnight, Wednesday morning noticed that I had correct clock, came hope later yesterday and I had grid with 8 days of listings for the channels that was in the grid. Re arranged my channel line up, a lot of channels were off, turned desired channels to ON nad turned unit OFF, Checked (Turned on ) unit today, I was greeted with a message to choose my cable provider, made my selection, and turned off unit. These channels still show no listing as of noon today

I just received this email from MacrovisionCE Support.
Thank you for contacting TV Guide On Screen. We will need to collect some
diagnostic information form your unit to further this investigation into why you have no data for your TV Guide On Screen product. We will need to reset the TV Guide; to do this you will need to go to set up with in the TV Guide, hit the down arrow once, and type in 653274147 (won't see these numbers on the screen).
The TV Guide will disappear and the unit may restart. After this you will need
to leave the TV off from 11:45pm - 6:00am. Any time after 6:00am, please
collect a set of the diagnostic information for us if you can (see attached
document). Thank you.

Attachments

The above was in response to my emailwhich is below;

I own a Sony DHG-HDD 250 that has TVGOS. Can you tell me if Time Warner in Fullerton, CA is carrying analog TVGOS ?

Obviously, since I believe that I am now getting a viable OTA digital host, I will not mess with this, and I am not recommending this procedure to anybody since it was a response to a specific question. Macrovision does respond back to your inquires, sometimes.

I believe it is Mark in Kansas? and a couple of others in 100% digital that are not having problems at all. He has documented a solid lock on digital.


I can't say that there are no problems at all here. To answer the question of can I recover from a complete reset in a digital only environment, the answer is yes. Even with the previous firmware (1.2.13), I was able to recover from a reset, and get a channel lineup in less than 48 hours.

That being said, I have neglected to mention that my DVR does not work right. I haven't talked about it much since it seems to be unrelated to the problems that other people are having here.

I actually have 2 sources for TVGOS data. I can get data exclusively from my digital CBS station OTA, or I can connect the cable line to my DVR and get analog TVGOS data from analog CBS on cable (Cox is converting the digital TVGOS to analog and sending it out on analog CBS).

Here is my problem:

I can disconnect my antenna, connect my cable line, and reset the DVR. It will start receiving data from analog CBS on cable. It works fine, and I get normal listings (host channel sets to analog CBS). I could let it work this way, but I don't want to use cable, I want to use my OTA channels only. However, if I reconnect the antenna, then go into the TVGOS setup, and turn on the OTA channels (leaving the cable channels enabled also), the next night all listings stop (No Listing across the board). I can change the zip code, and that clears my host channel, and listings continue normally until the host channel sets again (from 1 to 3 days). Then the listings stop again. This is all with an analog host channel. However, when I only connect my antenna, disable cable, and enable OTA, the same thing happens. I get data from my digital host channel, and everything works fine as long as my host channel is blank. However once my host channel sets the listings stop.

I'm pretty certain that this is a MV problem. I contacted them, with this problem, before the Sony firmware was released, and got a response that basically said, that I need a host channel to get TVGOS data, and, by the way, your DVR won't work after the transition to digital, unless you get a firmware upgrade, sorry. I guess it is time to approach them with this problem again (now that the wrong firmware version excuse is gone).

Mark

I can't say that there are no problems at all here. To answer the question of can I recover from a complete reset in a digital only environment, the answer is yes. Even with the previous firmware (1.2.13), I was able to recover from a reset, and get a channel lineup in less than 48 hours.

Mark, I have a similar situation to your's in my area, in that I have both analog and digital TVGOS available OTA, and only digital TVGOS available over cable. I am still unsuccessful going from "Restore Factory Defaults" to listings via digital (cable connection) only. I am currently trying the leave-it-on idea to try to get the listings to happen. Can you please post (or direct me to where you may have already posted) a step-by step sequence for your successful method?


That being said, I have neglected to mention that my DVR does not work right. I haven't talked about it much since it seems to be unrelated to the problems that other people are having here.

I actually have 2 sources for TVGOS data. I can get data exclusively from my digital CBS station OTA, or I can connect the cable line to my DVR and get analog TVGOS data from analog CBS on cable (Cox is converting the digital TVGOS to analog and sending it out on analog CBS).

Here is my problem:

I can disconnect my antenna, connect my cable line, and reset the DVR. It will start receiving data from analog CBS on cable. It works fine, and I get normal listings (host channel sets to analog CBS). I could let it work this way, but I don't want to use cable, I want to use my OTA channels only. However, if I reconnect the antenna, then go into the TVGOS setup, and turn on the OTA channels (leaving the cable channels enabled also), the next night all listings stop (No Listing across the board). I can change the zip code, and that clears my host channel, and listings continue normally until the host channel sets again (from 1 to 3 days). Then the listings stop again. This is all with an analog host channel. However, when I only connect my antenna, disable cable, and enable OTA, the same thing happens. I get data from my digital host channel, and everything works fine as long as my host channel is blank. However once my host channel sets the listings stop.

I'm pretty certain that this is a MV problem. I contacted them, with this problem, before the Sony firmware was released, and got a response that basically said, that I need a host channel to get TVGOS data, and, by the way, your DVR won't work after the transition to digital, unless you get a firmware upgrade, sorry. I guess it is time to approach them with this problem again (now that the wrong firmware version excuse is gone).


When I had my test unit working earlier in the week via analog OTA, I had my cable line connected at the same time and didn't experience anything like this. OTOH, I only left the test unit running for about one day, then I started trying with it connected to cable-only, trying to get a grid from a digital host. :confused:

ggp said:
“On your way to this success, did you remove the cable card at some point? I have OTA + Charter Cable + CableCard. In the various permutations of attempts I've made over the last two weeks, I've seen more glimmers of hope with the CableCard removed. It would be much better if I could simply leave it in.”

The only three configurations that I’ve tried are 1)OTA and 2)OTA, Cable with cable Card 3)Cable with cable Card

Only with Cable and cable Card installed seems to work for me. Results are repeatable. I disconnected OTA and cable and moved the unit to the bedroom last night. I did a TV Guide Reset user defaults. Why? I could not get the unit to NOT display the antenna channels. The unit had no grid or listings. Left powered off over night. I left town at 4am today. My wife reported that the unit has the Channel grid and listings for days 1,2,5 and 8

BOZOO wrote:
“How is this done 3 outputs into 2 inputs…..”
Yes, I should have stated 3)third try OTA + Cable with cable card. I have no idea why the cable card would give a ‘can not tune’ message.

Would anyone care to post how to determine the HOST channel and how to force the HOST channel? Thanks (digital environment)

Would anyone care to post how to determine the HOST channel and how to force the HOST channel? Thanks (digital environment)

Read this thread (http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=25.0)on Spiff's forum.

Subako's experience shows they can take the information from a digital channel and covert/send it out over a analog channel.

I have difficulty believing that this is Comcast's solution. Firstly, I suspect there would be contractual issues with Gemstar/MacroVision. It's one thing to pass through or even re-encode data to cable vs. OTA digital packaging. Quite different to strip out data from a digital feed and reformat it for an analog feed. Secondly, the inserters for an analog feed are very likely designed to expect their data from a particular source in a particular format. Re-engineering all this seems way over the top. Much more likely Comcast does both, pass through where that is easier, and has their own feed from Gemstar/MacroVision for insertion. Occam's razor.

One of my gridless DHGs was left off for several hours last night. Result, now that there is an analog source on my Comcast cable, the box that was left off now has lineups to choose from and a grid.

The second gridless DHG was left on during the same period of time. Result, no grid yet. That DHG will be off tonight.

One of my gridless DHGs was left off for several hours last night. Result, now that there is an analog source on my Comcast cable, the box that was left off now has lineups to choose from and a grid.

The second gridless DHG was left on during the same period of time. Result, no grid yet. That DHG will be off tonight.

I am in Bellevue, WA and have Comcast. I 1) popped out and plugged back in the cablecard, and 2) did a force VBI to channel 107, the CBS affiliate. I did this yesterday. Now, more days are filled in, although I'm missing 4/29 but have 4/30. The "host channel" is now 106, which is KONG or an NBC affiliate station.

FWIW.

Dale

Well, I really thought I'd be reporting something totally different than I am right now. However, when I checked the DVR after getting home from work I found that:

1. The tvgos version updated to 08.01.71/08.05.40
2. The ATSC Slicer screen was all Zeros again
3. No Ads/No lineup/No Listings/No Data for this Screen

It seems that once the preparation update got loaded, the DVR stopped processing ATSC Slicer data. Not only that, but the ATSC Slicer got completely reset to zero.

I powered off the DVR and powered it back on. Checked the slicer and it started incrementing again. Partial good news is that there were no rejected scheds...etc. packets and no skipped TVG1 packets. So, maybe it'll still do what it's suppose to do after turning it off and back on. (This may be the new version of running the G* test after each update to get it going. ??) I guess I'll just keep checking until such a time that there are ads with no lineup. Now I'm just bummed. :( EdwinC must have connections with the special DVR gods.

If you start the "leave it on" procedure with less than 08.01.71/08.06.44 tvgos version, when the version updates, the dhg resets itself and since the unit is on, it won't process anything after the reset. I am digital OTA only with a gridless dhg500 and have had no luck either on or off with getting a grid & channel lineup. It's got to be some issue with the tvgos being received OTA on a digital channel. EdwinC's success is probably due to the fact that he is OTA & cable. I am not aware of anybody going from gridless to getting listings using OTA digital only. Charlie

I have difficulty believing that this is Comcast's solution. Firstly, I suspect there would be contractual issues with Gemstar/MacroVision. It's one thing to pass through or even re-encode data to cable vs. OTA digital packaging. Quite different to strip out data from a digital feed and reformat it for an analog feed. Secondly, the inserters for an analog feed are very likely designed to expect their data from a particular source in a particular format. Re-engineering all this seems way over the top. Much more likely Comcast does both, pass through where that is easier, and has their own feed from Gemstar/MacroVision for insertion. Occam's razor.

Have you looked at this Gemstar document (http://laurenstephens.net/uploads/3d927cc0e5.pdf)that explains what the cable headends need to do? Descriptions & flowcharts start on page 12.

Have you looked at this Gemstar document (http://laurenstephens.net/uploads/3d927cc0e5.pdf)that explains what the cable headends need to do? Descriptions & flowcharts start on page 12.

Our local Comcast IS converting the PBS digital TVGOS to analog for use with legacy devices. The local PBS engineer who worked with MV to set up digital TVGOS spoke to Comcast and confirmed this earlier this month.

Have you looked at this Gemstar document (http://laurenstephens.net/uploads/3d927cc0e5.pdf)that explains what the cable headends need to do? Descriptions & flowcharts start on page 12.

Most of this document goes right over my head. Could you walk me through it? It seems to be a forward looking document for when SCTE 127 is more widely deployed. Wasn't someone here just saying that it's only in a couple of markets.The most compelling part of the document was on page 11. "A single broadcaster in each market transmits data supporting all CE Guides and all available lineups in that market." Uncle!

I am in Bellevue, WA and have Comcast. I 1) popped out and plugged back in the cablecard, and 2) did a force VBI to channel 107, the CBS affiliate. I did this yesterday. Now, more days are filled in, although I'm missing 4/29 but have 4/30. The "host channel" is now 106, which is KONG or an NBC affiliate station.

FWIW.

Dale

I'm in Seattle too. Do you get the VBI packet count up from the 9012 menu. I know that VBI relates to analog only. For those of you out there going aaargh. I know VBI only relates to an analog signal.

I'm trying to figure out the following: If the DISPLAY shows VBI packets on a digital channel, will you get listings? Even if you don't get VBI packets on a digital channel will you get listings?

Mark, I have a similar situation to your's in my area, in that I have both analog and digital TVGOS available OTA, and only digital TVGOS available over cable. I am still unsuccessful going from "Restore Factory Defaults" to listings via digital (cable connection) only. I am currently trying the leave-it-on idea to try to get the listings to happen. Can you please post (or direct me to where you may have already posted) a step-by step sequence for your successful method?


Here is my 12 step procedure (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16252423#post16252423). I used it on the 1.2.13 firmware, but don't get your hopes up. It is basically the same procedure used for analog (basically, turn it off, wait, run the G* Test after each patch installs, wait some more). With the new firmware version, you shouldn't have to run the G* Test after the patch downloads reset the DVR (although with bm4wood's failed result today it seems like that is what his unit may have needed). I would now replace "run the G* Test" with "Go into the 753 ATSC slicer screen, and verify packets have been counting up, if not, then run the G* Test".


When I had my test unit working earlier in the week via analog OTA, I had my cable line connected at the same time and didn't experience anything like this. OTOH, I only left the test unit running for about one day, then I started trying with it connected to cable-only, trying to get a grid from a digital host. :confused:

Well the emphasis I placed on connecting, and disconnecting the cable, and antenna lines was just me being A. R. (I didn't mean to imply that has something to do with the problem). By only having one, or the other line connected I know where my TVGOS data is coming from. I have been experiencing this problem since Feb. 28th. That is the day my digital CBS's TVGOS data came back online after being off for 12 days. Before then it worked fine. I did my first "reset to factory defaults" during the time my CBS station's data was offline, which brought in a "new" (broken?) channel lineup. This "new" channel lineup that I now get has my digital host channel mis-mapped as channel 7-1 instead of 12-1 (it has only been channel 12 for about 40 years ;)). My original channel lineup didn't have that issue. That was probably the first time since I have owned this unit (since 2006), that it had to re-acquire the channel lineup.

Mark

Would anyone care to post how to determine the HOST channel and how to force the HOST channel? Thanks (digital environment)
If I may add, possumgirl's response is the thread focused on the second part of your question, and it may be that somewhere in that thread is also explicitly the answer to how to determine the host channel.

However, for a direct answer to the latter, I point out that doing the following from the openng post in that thread:

"bring up the TV Guide listings.

2. Push the "CH" (PAGE) up button one or more times until the highlighted line is all the way up in the menu bar on "LISTINGS".

3. Push the right arrow on the menu navigation circle twice to "SETUP".

4. Push the down arrow on the menu navigation circle once to "Change System Settings"",

then entering the code 753159852 (instead of the force host code) brings up the first of a set of diagnostic screens.

If you then hit the right button once, you'll get the screen that gives various basic info, including the host channel...

I'm in Seattle too. Do you get the VBI packet count up from the 9012 menu. I know that VBI relates to analog only. For those of you out there going aaargh. I know VBI only relates to an analog signal.

I'm trying to figure out the following: If the DISPLAY shows VBI packets on a digital channel, will you get listings? Even if you don't get VBI packets on a digital channel will you get listings?

Your previous posts have indicated that a) you don't have a grid and b) you were waiting for equipment to arrive to fix your head end, estimated 5/1. When your part of the plant is operating properly, you should be able to see VBI counts on channel 90, and what are called VBI counts on channels 106 and 107. I couldn't get a grid until channel 90, an Analog channel 7, KIRO with VBI injected, was working on my part to the Seattle plant, and, of course, without a grid, one gets no listings. If you've not yet done the firmware upgrade, checking these three channels should be trivial. If you have done the firmware upgrade, the G* test works a little differently as noted recently in this thread. So, have you heard news about the repair of your head end? What results do you get from testing these three channels?

Read this thread (http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=25.0)on Spiff's forum.

Thank you for that link. I have used that and just forgot the title. Before I commented I wanted to do it again.
It was not a success. What happens is on the second day and after the 753*, there is no host channel listed. That has been my observation in the past. That is why I think my local PBS is passing bogus info. (WJCT) They say they pass all the test but do not have a TVGOS decoder. So if they have Garbage in, they would not know they have garbage out.
Here is info from Rabit Ears:

Program Map Table(s)
Program Number: 3 WJCT7-1

Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video PID 49 (0x0031)
MPEG Video: Bitrate 65.000 Mbps Resolution 1280 x 720p
MPEG Video: Framerate 59.94 fps Aspect Ratio 16:9 Chroma Format 4:2:0

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio PID 52 (0x0034)
AC3: Bitrate 384 Kbps Sample Rate 48 KHz
AC3: Mode complete main Coding 3/2 5 L, C, R, SL, SR

Stream Type: 0x06 Teletext/VBI PID 272 (0x0110)
Descriptor: VBI Data Descriptor
fb 08 ed ee ef f0 cd ce cf d0 ..........

Stream Type: 0x05 ISO/IEC 13818-1 private_sections PID 273 (0x0111)
Descriptor: Registration Descriptor
Format identifier: 0x54564731 (TVG1)
Descriptor: Private Data Indicator Descriptor
64 61 74 61 data

Stream Type: 0x05 ISO/IEC 13818-1 private_sections PID 274 (0x0112)
Descriptor: Registration Descriptor
Format identifier: 0x54564732 (TVG2)
Descriptor: Private Data Indicator Descriptor
64 61 74 61 data

I can't say that there are no problems at all here. To answer the question of can I recover from a complete reset in a digital only environment, the answer is yes. Even with the previous firmware (1.2.13), I was able to recover from a reset, and get a channel lineup in less than 48 hours.

That being said, I have neglected to mention that my DVR does not work right. I haven't talked about it much since it seems to be unrelated to the problems that other people are having here.

I actually have 2 sources for TVGOS data. I can get data exclusively from my digital CBS station OTA, or I can connect the cable line to my DVR and get analog TVGOS data from analog CBS on cable (Cox is converting the digital TVGOS to analog and sending it out on analog CBS).

Here is my problem:

I can disconnect my antenna, connect my cable line, and reset the DVR. It will start receiving data from analog CBS on cable. It works fine, and I get normal listings (host channel sets to analog CBS). I could let it work this way, but I don't want to use cable, I want to use my OTA channels only. However, if I reconnect the antenna, then go into the TVGOS setup, and turn on the OTA channels (leaving the cable channels enabled also), the next night all listings stop (No Listing across the board). I can change the zip code, and that clears my host channel, and listings continue normally until the host channel sets again (from 1 to 3 days). Then the listings stop again. This is all with an analog host channel. However, when I only connect my antenna, disable cable, and enable OTA, the same thing happens. I get data from my digital host channel, and everything works fine as long as my host channel is blank. However once my host channel sets the listings stop.

I'm pretty certain that this is a MV problem. I contacted them, with this problem, before the Sony firmware was released, and got a response that basically said, that I need a host channel to get TVGOS data, and, by the way, your DVR won't work after the transition to digital, unless you get a firmware upgrade, sorry. I guess it is time to approach them with this problem again (now that the wrong firmware version excuse is gone).

Mark

Ah I see, well not really, way too complex for me to follow what you are doing.

Simple question: If you connect the Sony Box to antenna, and leave it there! Do a Full Factory Reset, Install the latest Sony Software. Does it lock into digital host, and stay there? And not fail? Regardless of whether the Host lists somethng or not? If the ATSC slicer page has HOST column that stays there (and anlogue page stays zero), then you are good to go, right?

Last night -Thursday-while watching recorded shows, and the box was recording Bones. I hit the guide button, entered 500 (quick trip to the end), and the Ninth Day - next Friday, was already filling in. this as about 7:30pm last night. At that point the full Grid was there to midnight next Friday (ninth day) - but the listings had only completed to about 4:30AM Friday morning, the rest were "no titles"

This morning when checking things out, I notice it is the standard full 8 days - in otherwords completed through next Friday to midnight.

It appears to me, that the digital downloads occur several times a day, and it no longer uses, the 180 minute guide download rule.

Most of the time, my box is locked into digital host for clock CBS (so it says), and the Guide Host is analogue (sometimes blank and sometimes PBS analogue). The actual tracking of the downloads themselves appear to be 95-100% digital, analogue only shows up once and a while. The actual DL, schedule now have a FOUR day history tracking (date/time stamp), very interesting.

You would think that, but practically, with so many having unique experiences, it doesn't seem to be certain.

My current dilemma starts with all three units now working perfectly. All getting analog from Cablevision without a cable card.

Not knowing what the future will bring, digital transition and all, and Cablevision's whims, should I attempt to update the firmware.

Is it better to update now when all is working well- in preparation of what may come?

It will do me no immediate good or difference but can anyone assure me that it also won't do any harm.

I can relate my testing from a cable only HDD250. I have updated from baseline (1.2.05 & 08.01.42) to the latest (1.2.21 & 08.06.44) several times and from middle levels to the latest. I all cases I lost my manual digital channel recording ability. My Sony (TV and HDD) displays CBS HD as 85.1501 and the TV diags say that it is QAM256 with a frequency of 591000khz, but with 1.2.21 the HDD250 will not let me record it. I have gone back to 1.2.13 (and 08.06.44) by plugging in my USB drive with no loss of lineup, listing, schedule, or any other options (that I could find). So you probably have nothing to lose by trying 1.2.21 and I have heard here that you will get some added information in some of the diagnostic screens. Obviously you would only update one unit and allow time for it to cycle though its listings, etc. and check for other problems. Things are changing at MV all the time so we know what that moving target feels like. My money is on an update from "Sony" in the near future, probably end of June.

No channel lineup. :(

I do have ads, and the TVGOS software has been updated to 08.06.44. In the 753159852 screens, the Host ID has been set to 0x56 (decimal 86), the proper value for Columbia, and it looks like I've been getting all the different kinds of packets except for UpdatePkt, LineupPkt and LineupSelPkt.

I'll give it another day or two. If I still don't have a lineup, I'll change the zip code back to 29202, which is what I was using when I got the channel lineup on Friday.
There is no host for Columbia, South Carolina yet. PBS will be the digital host per Macrovision but no date has been set that I'm aware of. The rep I talked to originally told me it would be a month but others on this forum have said that a rep from Macrovision told them it would be a few months. WLTX is carrying digital packets for sure but they are not carrying TVGOS.

Interesting problem: I look in my record list, a certain program is listed to record a certain channel and time and date but when I look in the TV guide it does not show that program as going to be recorded. Most show up, just some don't not a major big deal, this hit me when I tried to record a program and it said I had a conflict with the same program (show) already set to record.

From what I remember you are OTA only with a digital TVGOS source, and no analog channels broadcasting TVGOS. If this is right, I believe that eventually your unit will get listings. I believe you said your clock has the right time, so you can still use your unit as a DVR for now. From what I recall my TVGOS version updated to 06 before I got the clock and grid. I thought that your unit also updated to the .06 version, from your post above it would seem it reverted back to 08.01.71/08.05.40. I don't know what could have caused this, mybe a soft reset?

Yes, I am OTA only/Digital Only. The jury is still out on the listings - today should be the day of judgment if it's going to happen. Upon a front panel reset, the tvgos version reset to 08.01.71/00.00.00. So, for the first 24 hours, what it accomplished was getting it to 08.01.71/08.05.40. Then the ATSC slicer went to zero and stopped processing. I turned the DVR off and back on. This got the ATSC packets incrementing again. As of this morning it now has 08.01.71/08.06.44 and the ATSC slicer was back at zero. I turned the DVR off and back on (ATSC slicer started up again) and then came to work. So, technically, this hasn't failed as of yet. I'm still waiting to see if I get channel lineups OR advertisements next.

RE: the clock - when I first did the front panel reset the clock went to --:-- until I turned the DVR on and then about 30 seconds after ATSC data started incrementing, the clock got the correct time (even at version 08.01.71/00.00.00). Strange thing is the clock set channel and failing clock channel both read 0:0-0. And (whether vbi plays a part or not...I don't know) the vbi current channel also shows 0:0-0. (?)

So, anyway, it's wait and see for me still.

Interesting problem: I look in my record list, a certain program is listed to record a certain channel and time and date but when I look in the TV guide it does not show that program as going to be recorded. Most show up, just some don't not a major big deal, this hit me when I tried to record a program and it said I had a conflict with the same program (show) already set to record.

go to TV Gudie Channel Editor Set Up. Use page up and down (channel +/-), and read every line. Are there any duplicate channels set up (can be "on" or "off"). If you see the same channel set up twice (the one your tried to record), then that would be the problem. (i.e. is 11-1 set up twice in the lists?). Also, some channels may be set up so far down the lists, you may not see them?

I want to give my sony 500 to a friend in Orlando Fl. I am hoping someone in here can tell me if Gemstar has a digital solution to tvgos in Orlando. before I give it to him I would like to know if it will work for him. If it does work what host channel if any did you have to force?

tia

Ok, I am now convinced that the firmware update solves all! I'm OTA only, and all digital (no analog in the area broadcasting VBI) I previously posted that I put on the firmware update on my "brick" sony (that had no clock, no grid for months), and that I still couldn't get a clock. I then did a restore default (or reset, don't remember, but its the one on the 9012 menu, right above the G* test). After doing this, I put on the firmware update again, then let it sit for a couple days while it updated to the latest TVGOS level, but my clock was still -- --. Now, it might have worked if I just let it sit for a couple days (I'll never know), but I went in and changed the zip code to one a few miles away, and shut it off. I went out of town a couple days, and when I came back, I have a correct clock, and have a filled in grid!!! So all is well. I'm back baby! But I'll probably miss combing thru posts on this forum every couple of days...

I'm in Seattle too. Do you get the VBI packet count up from the 9012 menu. I know that VBI relates to analog only. For those of you out there going aaargh. I know VBI only relates to an analog signal.

I'm trying to figure out the following: If the DISPLAY shows VBI packets on a digital channel, will you get listings? Even if you don't get VBI packets on a digital channel will you get listings?

Nope-I used to get VBI packets prior to the firmware upgrade, but don't any longer (testing on either Comcast channel 106 or 107). I'm missing next Wednesday, but have everything else including Friday, May 1st. You?

Ok, I am now convinced that the firmware update solves all!You wouldn't say that if you were here.
BTW, it would help if you posted your town and state under your username.

OTA only users may skip this post.

Let's assume (hypothetically of course) that by the end of June, the TV broadcast engineers and MV have solved the TVGOS problem in every market. Then, for those of us who use cable, we need to start thinking about SDV.

Here in San Diego TWC, like many cable suppliers across the US, are moving more and more channels to SDV. The HDD250, TIVO are amoung the DVR's that will lose channels to SDV, a cable card is no help for this.

The cable industry, pressured TIVO, has developed a 'tuning adapter' that is supposed te enable TIVO to tune SDV channels. The TIVO thread has posts on this subject.
Cable companies are (slowly and reluctantly) rolling out these adapters. The obvious question ... will the tuning adapter work with the 250/500 dvr ?.

My tentative answer would be YES. The cable QAM tuner/demodulator in the Sony/TIVO/late model TV sets all perform the same function and should not affect the adapter function. That leaves the software/firmware as a potential obstacle. And those can be upgraded.

We will need to follow the AVS TIVO thread and the tivocommunity forums to see what developes. If TIVO needs an upgade then the Sony would as well.

Here's hoping the Sony HDD programmers are looking ahead to upgrading our Sony's once again.
Chime in anyone?

Before you ask, SDV stands for Switched Digital Video.
For more on this copy that phrase to you search engine.

I've got a headache.

Who here wants to write the Sony DVR for Dummies book.

Hell, make it four books.

For Dummies who have only cable analog.

For Dummies who have only OTA digital

For Dummies who have OTA mixed analog and digital

For Dummies who are doing well now with cable analog but have no clue what will happen after the digital transition. (The book this dummy will buy.)

Make that seven books.

For Dummies who can't get any signal.

For Dummies who seem to be getting a signal but can't get listings no matter what they do.

For Dummies who have given up and are selling it on e-bay.

Another book added after AtlantisMichael's last post.

For Dummies who are getting both analog and digitial from cable.


As one of those dummies, I pledge 5 bucks to the author of such books and I call upon all the dummies of this thread to match my pledge.

I would start a pledge thread but I'am a dummy.
Gregg

I have difficulty believing that this is Comcast's solution. Firstly, I suspect there would be contractual issues with Gemstar/MacroVision. It's one thing to pass through or even re-encode data to cable vs. OTA digital packaging. Quite different to strip out data from a digital feed and reformat it for an analog feed. Secondly, the inserters for an analog feed are very likely designed to expect their data from a particular source in a particular format. Re-engineering all this seems way over the top. Much more likely Comcast does both, pass through where that is easier, and has their own feed from Gemstar/MacroVision for insertion. Occam's razor.

The old way was for the cableco to simply pass the guide data in an analog channel through to the end user. Well, not really so simple since the cableco had to have the right equipment set up properly to avoid destroying the data.

The NEW way is supposed to work like this: The ONLY source of guide data is from a local digital channel. That signal is fed to the cableco via fiber. The cableco does two things with the signal. 1) It passes the signal with digital guide data untouched to the cableco's HD version of the channel. 2) It routes the signal through an 8VSB receiver (such as the Tandberg mentioned and linked earlier in this thread), downconverting it to analog while also converting the digital guide data to the old analog form for legacy devices. THIS is where SCTE127 compliance comes into play. The digital guide data must be SCTE127 compliant as must the receiver for the conversion to work.

Thanks, had not even thought about that. I wll get my girlfriend to check it when she gets home. So, if it is digital, then it should show up as QAM. Channel 46.1, digital broadcast is suppose to be the host channel after the analog shutoff. From what you are saying, it sounds like the cable system is converting the digital TVGOS to an analog one. Is that correct?
Thanks, Michael
I have checked the Pioneer tv (cable ready,non cable card) and nothing on channel 9 as tune there, only on 97. But, under the 753 screens, host show up as cable channel 9.

That is correct. The big question is whether it is a temporary version of the old style analog channel (that will disappear after June 12), or a proper SCTE127 conversion of the digital guide to analog. See my post above.

Comcast in my area recently set up a similar analog CBS channel for guide data. I have been unable to find out which type it is.

There is no host for Columbia, South Carolina yet. PBS will be the digital host per Macrovision but no date has been set that I'm aware of. The rep I talked to originally told me it would be a month but others on this forum have said that a rep from Macrovision told them it would be a few months. WLTX is carrying digital packets for sure but they are not carrying TVGOS.

The WLTX station engineer stated the following (via email) to me: "Our 19.1 guide data is being transmitted, received and monitored off the air normally here at the station."

That being said, I'm seeing the same thing as jtbell. (see my signature line) :confused:

Trying edwinc's "leave it on" procedure now. So far, basically same thing as before (though won't know positively until tonight.)

Thanks for the information. :)

The old way was for the cableco to simply pass the guide data in an analog channel through to the end user.

For well over a year Cablevision was passing the [analog] data on PBS 13, where one would also pick it up OTA, and on their TV listing scroll channel 14.

At the time, it just seemed repetitive for no reason.

But maybe they were experimenting.

When CBS digital started transmitting it OTA, it was not available on Cablevision's digital CBS channel.

When PBS stopped broadcasting it a few months ago [they may have resumed maybe temporarily], it still remained on the scroll channel.

It's not easy to find good things to say about Cablevision but if they care to provide a good analog signal and are making it easy for the end user, I commend them.

Whether they are converting digital to analog, or whatever they are doing and for whatever reason, if they continue to have a good data feed in analog, I'll be happy.

On the other hand, they are Cablevision and anticipating the worst from them is not paranoia.

On to June 12th.

The WLTX station engineer stated the following (via email) to me: "Our 19.1 guide data is being transmitted, received and monitored off the air normally here at the station."

That being said, I'm seeing the same thing as jtbell. (see my signature line) :confused:

Trying edwinc's "leave it on" procedure now. So far, basically same thing as before (though won't know positively until tonight.)

Thanks for the information. :)
You will see listings, I'm sure, when PBS digital TVGOS comes on line at some point.

Frances

Whether they are converting digital to analog, or whatever they are doing and for whatever reason, if they continue to have a good data feed in analog, I'll be happy.

On the other hand, they are Cablevision and anticipating the worst from them is not paranoia.

On to June 12th.

You will find out on June 12. If they do the proper SCTE127 compliant conversion, you would never have to worry about finding or using a digital guide channel. Your Sony will roll happily along with an analog feed. Part of the potential problem with cablecos may be money. The guy at TVGOS said the receiver's cost is in five figures. An agreement between the cableco and TVGOS to pass guide data as best they can is one thing. In today's economy, spending the $$$ is another.

You will find out on June 12. If they do the proper SCTE127 compliant conversion, you would never have to worry about finding or using a digital guide channel. Your Sony will roll happily along with an analog feed. Part of the potential problem with cablecos may be money. The guy at TVGOS said the receiver's cost is in five figures. An agreement between the cableco and TVGOS to pass guide data as best they can is one thing. In today's economy, spending the $$$ is another.

Phil

So if all goes proper with SCTE127 and the cablecos, there's no reason to upgrade the Sony DVR, correct?

Gregg

You will find out on June 12. If they do the proper SCTE127 compliant conversion, you would never have to worry about finding or using a digital guide channel. Your Sony will roll happily along with an analog feed.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something (but I don't think so). The way I read page 10 of the TVGOS_2008 document attached in the link below, the SCTE127 is contained MPEG residing in a digital signal, not in an analog signal. ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=140524&d=1240413962

It appears to me, that the digital downloads occur several times a day, and it no longer uses, the 180 minute guide download rule.

Yes, instead of four 180-minute periods, there are eight 30-minute periods. See the attached schedule which I constructed from one of the 753159852 screens. I think the "ID 70" downloads are the key ones for maintaining the program listings, if you already have a channel lineup.

The local times appear to be the same regardless of the time zone the host station is located in. bwall23 has posted his list somewhere, and as I recall, his local times are the same as mine whereas his UTC times are three hours different because he's in California, three time zones away from South Carolina.

Added 2010-07-04: This schedule is now obsolete. A new one took effect in May 2010. I've left this attachment in place for the historical record. The updated schedule is attached to post #20918 in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18862497#post18862497).

The WLTX station engineer stated the following (via email) to me: "Our 19.1 guide data is being transmitted, received and monitored off the air normally here at the station."

That being said, I'm seeing the same thing as jtbell. (see my signature line) :confused:

Trying edwinc's "leave it on" procedure now. So far, basically same thing as before (though won't know positively until tonight.)

I tried the "leave it on" procedure a couple of days ago, after doing a "Reset User Preferences" from the 9012 menu. I couldn't even get the proper time back after leaving it on, and tuned to 19.1, from about 11pm through 5:30pm the next day. So I went back to my previous procedure: reset, tune to 19.1, and turn off. I now have the proper time again, and ads, and steadily increasing packet counts, except for LineupPkts and LineupSelPkts. No channel grid.

As I posted last weekend, I did have a channel grid which defaulted to Columbia OTA stations only, and a complete set of program listings, for a couple of days after I upgraded the Sony firmware. I'd probably still have it if I hadn't reset the unit to try starting from scratch.

I'm not too worried about all this, because I know it'll have to switch to SCETV at some point anyway, after they come on board and start sending the data. Also I have another Sony that I haven't reset or upgraded. It still has my old channel lineup from the analog PBS station in Asheville, and is apparently happily accepting fresh program listings from 19.1. As long as that unit doesn't get reset somehow, I'll be OK for the time being.

You wouldn't say that if you were here.
BTW, it would help if you posted your town and state under your username.


I live in Lincoln, NE. Course, if your local broadcaster isn't broadcasting VBI correctly or at all, then all bets are off. I just know that my local CBS station is broadcasting digital VBI (and that's the ONLY place I get VBI, no analog sources), and I can take a unit that is a brick, and make it work again, which I couldn't do without the firmware update.

I tried the "leave it on" procedure a couple of days ago, after doing a "Reset User Preferences" from the 9012 menu. I couldn't even get the proper time back after leaving it on, and tuned to 19.1, from about 11pm through 5:30pm the next day. So I went back to my previous procedure: reset, tune to 19.1, and turn off. I now have the proper time again, and ads, and steadily increasing packet counts, except for LineupPkts and LineupSelPkts. No channel grid.

As I posted last weekend, I did have a channel grid which defaulted to Columbia OTA stations only, and a complete set of program listings, for a couple of days after I upgraded the Sony firmware. I'd probably still have it if I hadn't reset the unit to try starting from scratch.

I have not been able to get a channel lineup since Feb 17. Were you using the 29202 zip when you saw a lineup (before starting from scratch)?

Yes, I am OTA only/Digital Only. The jury is still out on the listings - today should be the day of judgment if it's going to happen. Upon a front panel reset, the tvgos version reset to 08.01.71/00.00.00. So, for the first 24 hours, what it accomplished was getting it to 08.01.71/08.05.40. Then the ATSC slicer went to zero and stopped processing. I turned the DVR off and back on. This got the ATSC packets incrementing again. As of this morning it now has 08.01.71/08.06.44 and the ATSC slicer was back at zero. I turned the DVR off and back on (ATSC slicer started up again) and then came to work. So, technically, this hasn't failed as of yet. I'm still waiting to see if I get channel lineups OR advertisements next.

RE: the clock - when I first did the front panel reset the clock went to --:-- until I turned the DVR on and then about 30 seconds after ATSC data started incrementing, the clock got the correct time (even at version 08.01.71/00.00.00). Strange thing is the clock set channel and failing clock channel both read 0:0-0. And (whether vbi plays a part or not...I don't know) the vbi current channel also shows 0:0-0. (?)

So, anyway, it's wait and see for me still.

Just to update you on what happened to me. As I mentioned I got 8 full days of listing on the Channels that I had on the grid when I looked at it Wednesday. I re-arranged my channels to turn on the channels that for some reason were inadvetently turned off, I then turned the unit OFF. These channels still show no Listings as of noon today. Furthermore, The channels that had 8 full days now only show 6 days, (Through Thursday April 30) This leads me to believe that the unit has to be ON for it to receive listings. I know this is contrary to what the general consesus here, but that is my own experience. So I will leave the unit turned on for the next 24 hours on my digital host to see if I get my listings updated.

Last night -Thursday-while watching recorded shows, and the box was recording Bones. I hit the guide button, entered 500 (quick trip to the end), and the Ninth Day - next Friday, was already filling in. this as about 7:30pm last night. At that point the full Grid was there to midnight next Friday (ninth day) - but the listings had only completed to about 4:30AM Friday morning, the rest were "no titles"

This morning when checking things out, I notice it is the standard full 8 days - in otherwords completed through next Friday to midnight.

It appears to me, that the digital downloads occur several times a day, and it no longer uses, the 180 minute guide download rule.

Most of the time, my box is locked into digital host for clock CBS (so it says), and the Guide Host is analogue (sometimes blank and sometimes PBS analogue). The actual tracking of the downloads themselves appear to be 95-100% digital, analogue only shows up once and a while. The actual DL, schedule now have a FOUR day history tracking (date/time stamp), very interesting.

Interesting, are you saying that you noticed the grid updating while the unit was turned ON?

This leads me to believe that the unit has to be ON for it to receive listings.

On my main box (the one set for multiple hosts), I can confirm that listings originating from WNED-DT 17.1 have been updating properly every day since the firmware upgrade. Auto Off is being used every night. I'm pretty sure that family members haven't watched WNED during that time, so the listings updates must be happening during the time that the DVR is off.

Interesting, are you saying that you noticed the grid updating while the unit was turned ON?

Not necessarily, but it may have been? According to the date and time stamps it was filling in the 9th day during prime time; and when I turned it on it appears I had interrupted it. It appears to be updating the listings 4 to 6 times per day; whereas the old analogue updates only occurred once per day. The real point I was making, it already had a full 8 days, in the box and was in the process of filling in day 9.

go to TV Gudie Channel Editor Set Up. Use page up and down (channel +/-), and read every line. Are there any duplicate channels set up (can be "on" or "off"). If you see the same channel set up twice (the one your tried to record), then that would be the problem. (i.e. is 11-1 set up twice in the lists?). Also, some channels may be set up so far down the lists, you may not see them?

I apologize in advance to those that think anything related to TIVO should be discussed on the TIVO forum. The reason I am asking this question here is because in TIVO Land they might not know what I am talking about.
One of the things that is holding me back on buying a TIVO is I don't know if TIVO has this re-mapping fuction. Say you have program listing for channel 2 analogue but you don't have any program listing for 2.1, which has the same program, only in HD, in this scenario, with the SONY you can use the channel editor to re-map the program listing for channel 2 and have it tune to 2.1, therefore allowing you to record in HD, and have the title of the show.

Yes, instead of four 180-minute periods, there are eight 30-minute periods. See the attached schedule which I constructed from one of the 753159852 screens. I think the "ID 70" downloads are the key ones for maintaining the program listings, if you already have a channel lineup.

The local times appear to be the same regardless of the time zone the host station is located in. bwall23 has posted his list somewhere, and as I recall, his local times are the same as mine whereas his UTC times are three hours different because he's in California, three time zones away from South Carolina.

My digital DL schedule is the same so I, too, presume they're identical everywhere. One thing about the digital schedule continues to interest me. An analog ID70 is 180 min. long. On digital, ID70 is 30 min. but always followed by ID97 for 60 min. They seem to run in pairs: 70, 97, 70, 97, which repeats 4 times per day. The total time of each 'pair' is 180 min. so it appears a digital 'pair' equals one analog ID70.

I can't help wondering if, as a result of MV breaking a single 180 min. download into 4 parts, that it is somehow affecting the build of a channel lineup. When digital ID70 runs you can observe the various packet types incrementing, but I've never been able to figure out what happens during the ID97 download.

To anybody still having trouble making your USB drive work.
I tried to use a cheap no name .98GB drive, no joy. DHG 250
did not see it. Went back and reformat, copy Sony file and worked fine.
The only thing I did different was UNcheck "quick format".

Phil

So if all goes proper with SCTE127 and the cablecos, there's no reason to upgrade the Sony DVR, correct?

Gregg

I think that's the way it would work. But I upgraded mine anyway. The local CBS has all kinds of intermittent trouble with keeping the data flowing for Comcast's fiber feed. In a pinch, I may need to use OTA 2.1 with an indoor antenna. Also, it appears that upgrading won't do any harm (we hope).

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something (but I don't think so). The way I read page 10 of the TVGOS_2008 document attached in the link below, the SCTE127 is contained MPEG residing in a digital signal, not in an analog signal. ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=140524&d=1240413962

You are correct. It's all digital. That's why the cable company needs a particular 8VSB receiver that has the capability to convert the digital data to the analog form legacy devices always used. If the digital data is SCTE127 compliant AND the receiver is also, the receiver takes the digital data in and spits it out in the old analog form.

The TVGOS guy specifically mentioned the Tandberg receiver. No doubt there are or will be other brands coming down the pike. The cableco has to put out the $$$ to replace older receivers that could not do the guide data conversion.

go to TV Gudie Channel Editor Set Up. Use page up and down (channel +/-), and read every line. Are there any duplicate channels set up (can be "on" or "off"). If you see the same channel set up twice (the one your tried to record), then that would be the problem. (i.e. is 11-1 set up twice in the lists?). Also, some channels may be set up so far down the lists, you may not see them?

Checked all the way to the bottom, all 518 of them, no dups. The first 30 had channel numbers, the rest "---". Any other ideas?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something (but I don't think so). The way I read page 10 of the TVGOS_2008 document attached in the link below, the SCTE127 is contained MPEG residing in a digital signal, not in an analog signal. ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=140524&d=1240413962

It may be worthwhile to post this link to the Tandberg RX8320 information again:

http://www.megahz.com/specimages/Tandberg/RX8320.pdf

Read the first three paragraphs on page one.

My other general information comes from conversations with TVGOS operations a couple of months ago.

Checked all the way to the bottom, all 518 of them, no dups.No dupes at all? I get tons and tons of them.

On my test box...

I did a factory reset (complete reset, not just a TVGOS reset). Reloaded the new firmware. Entered in a Buffalo zip code. Waited 24 hours with DVR on as per Lindsey's instructions. And nada. Box still has not captured a host.

If you go the link there is a story about Macrovision signing up with National Datacast.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20090421/pl_usnw/national_datacast_and_macrovision_extend_relationship_for_ip g_data_distribution

Just maybe.........to be continued.


Rob
OTA in Seattle

I think that's the way it would work. But I upgraded mine anyway. The local CBS has all kinds of intermittent trouble with keeping the data flowing for Comcast's fiber feed. In a pinch, I may need to use OTA 2.1 with an indoor antenna. Also, it appears that upgrading won't do any harm (we hope).

Thanks Phil

I'm going to buy a flash drive today and thanks again for the good solid answer.

I was told about the $$$ for the Tandberg receiver by a comcast engineer 6 months ago. He said it was the fix for my complaint about losing TVGOS on my v8 TV. I also complained to him about Emergency Broadcast Signals. I told him that I on occassion, I had observed my legacy v8 TVGOS TV was not receiving EBS tests while my v9 blatted away. He was very quiet to that query.

My v8 now receives TVGOS and blattes just fine... I wonder if there could be a connect?

Gregg

Checked all the way to the bottom, all 518 of them, no dups. The first 30 had channel numbers, the rest "---". Any other ideas?
If you're still taking about a scheduled recording that appears in the list but not the TV Guide grid, I have this happen occasionally, and it may be when a new download occurs and the grid drops the recording if the end or start time of the particular program has changed slightly...as frequently happens on ABC or NBC...and maybe it only happens on recurrent (i.e., weekly) recordings...

In my case, too, nothing to do with duplicate channels in the guide...which isn't much of a problem for me, since I don't have cable, so none of those are on...

so essentially, I only set recordings on the first 10 or so channels at the top of the TV Guide...

No dupes at all? I get tons and tons of them.

just the "---"

I apologize in advance to those that think anything related to TIVO should be discussed on the TIVO forum. The reason I am asking this question here is because in TIVO Land they might not know what I am talking about.
One of the things that is holding me back on buying a TIVO is I don't know if TIVO has this re-mapping fuction. Say you have program listing for channel 2 analogue but you don't have any program listing for 2.1, which has the same program, only in HD, in this scenario, with the SONY you can use the channel editor to re-map the program listing for channel 2 and have it tune to 2.1, therefore allowing you to record in HD, and have the title of the show.

Tivo does not support channel mapping. Channel mapping is one of the best features of the Sony IMO. MOXI also supports channel mapping for clear QAM.

Ah I see, well not really, way too complex for me to follow what you are doing.


Sorry, I didn't realize my explanation was so confusing. Here is an easier explanation (I hope).

I go into the TVGOS setup, tell it I have cable, but no OTA antenna. Host channel sets to analog CBS channel 1:0-12. I get normal guide data every night.

After several nights, I go into the TVGOS setup, and tell it that I also have an OTA antenna. Host channel is still set to 1:0-12, but the next morning, the guide data shows 'No Listing' on all channels for day 8. Every morning after that, still has No Listing for all channels.

The work around is pretty easy. I go into the TVGOS setup, and change my zip code from 67201, to 67202. After that I check my host channel, it is now blank. Next morning, all 8 days filled in. The full guide continues every night, until the host channel sets again, then back to 'No Listing' for day 8. I change the zip code back to what it was, host channel is blank, next morning full listings, etc.

If I start all over, and tell the TVGOS setup, that I don't have cable, and I do have an OTA antenna, after a few days my host channel will become 0:19-0 (the RF channel for 0:12-1), and my guide downloads stop again. zip code change, all works for 2 or 3 days, then back to No Listing, etc.



Simple question: If you connect the Sony Box to antenna, and leave it there! Do a Full Factory Reset, Install the latest Sony Software. Does it lock into digital host, and stay there? And not fail? Regardless of whether the Host lists somethng or not? If the ATSC slicer page has HOST column that stays there (and anlogue page stays zero), then you are good to go, right?

First the answer(s) to your "simple" question(s).
I won't do another reset (been there, done that, same problem). Yes, my host channel locks on and stays there. Changing my zip code "fixes" that though, for a couple of days any way.

As long as my host channel is set, and the unit is off, my HostChan packets in the ATSC Slicer screen count up, which doesn't do much good since I get no guide data. Analog page remains all zero.

I'm good to go as soon as I break free of my host channel (which I know is completely backwards from what I should be saying).

Here is more info:

March 25th was the last 'TV Guide - Reset to Factory Defaults' that I have done. Over the previous month and a half, I must have performed 6 or 7 resets of various kinds. All resulting in the same end result. I have no intention of resetting this thing again soon. I have not done a reset with the new firmware. However, when the new firmware was released my DVR was 100% cable only (this was the first time I had tried going cable only, I was surprised to discover that my unit works perfect that way). Since I wanted to see if the new firmware would fix my problem, I went to the TVGOS setup, told it no, to cable, and yes, to OTA antenna. I then did a reset user configuration, rescanned the OTA channels, and installed the new firmware. I had lost my channel grid, but it didn't bother me, since I "knew" that the new firmware wouldn't have an issue with that. I didn't even bat an eye when my channel grid was back the next morning. 24 hours later though I knew my problem was still there. I'd rather be stuck with this problem though, than the problem of no channel grid that so many have.

Mark

Checked all the way to the bottom, all 518 of them, no dups. The first 30 had channel numbers, the rest "---". Any other ideas?

Have you recently changed your TVGOS setup? I recently switched from cable only to OTA only, and when I did I was surprised to see that my old cable recordings were all still active even though the channels weren't in the channel list. I had to delete each one, and re-program the recordings for the OTA stations.

Mark

FYI
2 500's - OTA only
1 500 updated the other not.
Tonight while recording, on the 500 that wasn't updated, I started watching a show at about 10 min. in.
I did a fast forward at the commercial and it locked. Clock also stopped updating.
When the 500 finally came back it reset with the Welcome and did the 6 count.
The show came back on in progress but the clock was --:--.
After about 3 min the clock came back but was about 40 min behind.
After another 2 min it set itself to correct time.
Finished watching the show and went to delete it.
The record menu showed 9.9 hours of the show over as many weeks, but only showed the one that had stalled and it showed "No listing".
The other 9 shows didn't appear in the listing after clicking on the main title.
Deleting it removed the main title from the list along with all other shows which it didn't list anymore.
I checked the 753 menu right after the reset and zip code and clock packets showed 0.
In five min. I checked again and there were 3 zip code packets but no time packets even though the clock had reset to the right time.
For some reason this event wiped out all of the shows of that title even though it showed 9.9 hours recorded.
This has happened before but it usually reset in about 2 min and continued with the last command..i.e. FF, RW, etc. without clearing any saved programs.
Anyone else?

BTW: The show was on 2-1 which is the digital VBI channel.

Just for the heck of it I did the update. I used a Coby MP300 1 gig USB drive/MP3 player and it worked fine.

After the update I no longer get VBI info, I fail the G* test, should I be getting VBI info after the upgrade?

Thanks

ratpatrol -

The G*test only works for analog stations with VBI data after the new firmware upgrade. Look at the ATSC-Slicer screen to see data for digital stations.

http://home.att.net/~pix/AVS/Slicer2.JPG

This forum has a search tool, but if you do not know how to use it, you get a lot of different hits to your inquiry. And as long as we pony up answers so easily, why would anyone bother to look elsewhere.Add;
For Dummies who can't get the forum search to work for them.

Just try finding 08.01.71 in this thread with the forum search tool. I just download the thread (it opens in notepad/wordpad/whatever your default text viewer program is) and do a CTRL-F to search.

If you figure out how to find this with the forum search, please tell the moderators and post here...

Add;
For Dummies who can't get the forum search to work for them.

Just try finding 08.01.71 in this thread with the forum search tool. I just download the thread (it opens in notepad/wordpad/whatever your default text viewer program is) and do a CTRL-F to search.

If you figure out how to find this with the forum search, please tell the moderators and post here...

The search apparently doesn't like searching for only numbers. I had some success by including sony in the search. So I entered "sony 08.01.71" (without the quotes), and got several hits.

Mark

just the "---"Oh, OK. Yeah, most of mine are un-numbered, too. Thought you meant overall.

On another note, my analog host channel (WBBM) is blank again. It's like "off again" for three days, then "on again" for three.

Were you using the 29202 zip when you saw a lineup (before starting from scratch)?

Yes. I had been using 29202 for a day or two before the firmware upgrade.

I saw the channel lineup immediately after doing the upgrade. It was literally the first thing I saw when I turned the Sony on after the upgrade process had finished and the unit had shut itself off. It was definitely not visible before the upgrade. There's no way the lineup could have been downloaded after the upgrade. It had to have been there already, but for some reason the Sony wasn't displaying it. Something about the upgrade process caused it to come "unstuck", so to speak.

I think that's the way it would work. But I upgraded mine anyway. The local CBS has all kinds of intermittent trouble with keeping the data flowing for Comcast's fiber feed. In a pinch, I may need to use OTA 2.1 with an indoor antenna. Also, it appears that upgrading won't do any harm (we hope).
On another note, my analog host channel (WBBM) is blank again. It's like "off again" for three days, then "on again" for three.
My latest Chicago status report, OTA-only, FWIW:

I've never done a full factory reset nor lost my grid, and am still using my real ZIP code. Since the firmware update, I've consistently had 08.01.71/08.06.44, and my clock has been fine. As of two days ago, my Failing Clock Channel and Clock Set Channel were both 0:0-2 (CBS analog); as of today the latter is now 0:0-11 (PBS analog). My System Stats page shows 0x3 for HostID, but still nothing at all for HostChan. My ATSC Slicer screen still shows increments under CurrChan, but nothing under HostChan. I've been leaving it tuned to 2.1 at night, but using AutoOff.

Yesterday (Thursday), though, I discovered that several channels, notably including 2.1 (CBS digital) and all the other major network stations (NBC, CBS, Fox, and one of the local PBSs) had simply disappeared from my grid. I could enter the digits and view them just fine, but the Guide merely listed them as "AIR." When I went to reset my Channel Display I finally found them (by call letters) way down at the bottom of the (575-item) list, turned off, lacking any channels to tune to. I spent the better part of two hours getting them all back where they belonged again.

Today I was relieved to see that all the channels were still in place. However, several were still chock-full of "No Listings," including (e.g.) the timeslot for tonight's Dollhouse on Fox, which before Thursday was listed right where it belonged.

So, in a nutshell, the local CBS has all sorts of intermittent trouble with the datastream, period, not just to the cablecos. Just what the devil are WBBM and/or Macrovision doing these days? Anyone have a clue?

Sorry, I didn't realize my explanation was so confusing. Here is an easier explanation (I hope).

...The work around is pretty easy. I go into the TVGOS setup, and change my zip code from 67201, to 67202. After that I check my host channel, it is now blank. Next morning, all 8 days filled in. The full guide continues every night, until the host channel sets again, then back to 'No Listing' for day 8. I change the zip code back to what it was, host channel is blank, next morning full listings, etc.

If I start all over, and tell the TVGOS setup, that I don't have cable, and I do have an OTA antenna, after a few days my host channel will become 0:19-0 (the RF channel for 0:12-1), and my guide downloads stop again. zip code change, all works for 2 or 3 days, then back to No Listing, etc.

...I'm good to go as soon as I break free of my host channel (which I know is completely backwards from what I should be saying).

Wait, so you're saying whether it's OTA or cable, your machine is only getting listings when it doesn't report a HostChan, never when it does? :confused:

I understand the meaning of your words, but that doesn't leave me any less confused!...

Hmm. I just read the Macrovision press release someone linked upthread. Of note:
April 21 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- National Datacast, Inc., a commercial subsidiary of the Public Broadcasting Service (PBS) and a leader in nationwide wireless data broadcasting, announced that it has extended its relationship with Macrovision for Interactive Program Guide (IPG) data distribution. The agreement will allow for the distribution of the TV Guide On Screen IPG data over National Datacast's nationwide digital TV data broadcast network. Since the early 1990's National Datacast has been distributing the TV Guide On Screen IPG data over the analog TV broadcast signals of many PBS member stations.

...National Datacast and the PBS member stations participating in National Datacast's network are seamlessly transitioning the TV Guide On Screen service to the new digital transmission systems, enabling customers to receive continuous program guide service as broadcast television moves from analog to digital TV this June.
The piece makes no mention at all of CBS stations. Nor does it mention which PBS stations will be participating. Nor does it explain how those stations can get this up and running in the six weeks before June 12, versus the months various CBS stations have been working on it.

But assuming that the CBS contracts also remain valid, does this mean that some of us may hypothetically wind up with two digital TVGOS datastreams in our broadcast areas? And if so, how would the Sony machines choose which one to use? Anyone have any idea?

"National Datacast and the PBS member stations participating in National Datacast's network are seamlessly transitioning the TV Guide On Screen service to the new digital transmission systems..."

What a joke...so far I haven't seen anybody seamlessly transitioning (as if that's a verb) ANYTHING!


But assuming that the CBS contracts also remain valid, does this mean that some of us may hypothetically wind up with two digital TVGOS datastreams in our broadcast areas? And if so, how would the Sony machines choose which one to use? Anyone have any idea?
If the digital works anything like analog, TVGOS units generally stick with the host they find first, and only pay attention to the other one if the first one stops working (in some sense)...

I've added the new update from 01.02.05 and from 01.02.13 and once I achieve 08.01.71/08.06.44 I lose the manual recording ability to record channels that are not in the TV Guide list. Sony sees them and lets me tune to them, but TV Guide gives me "not in listings" error. I'm going to try OTA to see what I can pick up, but I'm not optimistic and I'm not going to rent a cable card.Perhaps this is a cable-only issue - I upgraded to the latest firmware and have no trouble doing manual recordings of any channel, in the grid or not. I just tried a test recording of 17.2 (ThisTV in Philly), which is not yet in the grid (though my wife wishes it were) and it worked fine.

You can do it two ways:
a) Tune to the station you want to record, press and hold the RECORD button until the manual record menu pops up, set the times and dates and schedule it.

b) Press and hold RECORD until the manual record menu pops up, navigate to the "Channel" box, and type in the channel number (regardless of whether it's in the grid or not.) Set times and dates, and schedule it.

Frank -

JoeKustra explained his issue in greater detail in the post linked below. It has something to do with channel numbers like X.xxxx that he could record prior to the new firmware, but apparently he can't record now.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16301414#post16301414

Frank -

JoeKustra explained his issue in greater detail in the post linked below. It has something to do with channel numbers like X.xxxx that he could record prior to the new firmware, but apparently he can't record now.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16301414#post16301414Well 4-digit subchannel numbers seem a bit extreme, but leave it to cable companies to come up with something bizarre like that!

I commented because JoeKustra just yesterday posted this tidbit (which made me run off and try it) in Spiff's FAQ: 08.01.71 does not allow manual recordings of programs that are on stations not shown on the TVGOS lineup.

Wait, so you're saying whether it's OTA or cable, your machine is only getting listings when it doesn't report a HostChan, never when it does? :confused:

I understand the meaning of your words, but that doesn't leave me any less confused!...

If I tell it I have cable only (no OTA antenna), I get listings with my host channel set. If I tell it I have an OTA antenna, I get No Listings with my host channel set. There are actually 2 (CBS, and PBS) out of 10 channels, that show No Title instead of No Listing. These two channels will have an occasional show listed. Example, 'The Price is Right' on CBS seems to always be listed, surrounded by No Title, before and after it.

I'm confused as well.

Mark

So, in a nutshell, the local CBS has all sorts of intermittent trouble with the datastream, period, not just to the cablecos. Just what the devil are WBBM and/or Macrovision doing these days? Anyone have a clue?

Yup, something was going on. Yesterday, only day 1 had full listings. Oddly, the other days were full for the first six channels in my grid, while 99% of all others were "no listing".

Today, days 1,2,5,8 are full, so it looks like it was a brief glitch.

This is all from cable PBS analog. Cable CBS-HD still has zero activity in the slicer screen.

ratpatrol -

The G*test only works for analog stations with VBI data after the new firmware upgrade. Look at the ATSC-Slicer screen to see data for digital stations.

Thanks, everythings working fine. Got guide data up to next Saturday already.

WKMG broadcasts TVOS for the Orlando area... we know that. So here is my issue: Channels 6-1 and 6-2 have no signal, yet I do have guide data.

Background:
WKMG was broadcasting on channel 58, but recently (earlier this week I think) changed to channel 26. I had to manually modify my Vista HTPC after the channel changed. My HDD-250 had zero guide data for the last few weeks (I hardly use it). So last night I went into setup, changed my zip code, and powered off the unit for it to download data overnight.

This morning, I saw that the unit download a full 8 days of guide data. BUT, using the 753159852 code, my host channel is blank. Naturally, tuning to 6-1 and using the 9012 for a VBI test fails.

Any idea how I can get my CBS channels to display a signal?

-T

Just for the heck of it I did the update. I used a Coby MP300 1 gig USB drive/MP3 player and it worked fine.

Thanks

Do you think my 1 gig iPod would work?

Thanks Gregg

For those (if anyone :p) that may have been following my weeklong experiment:

I have decided to end this experiment. I have reconnected my antenna, and re-reun the TVGOS setup to include OTA. This should get me a Grid by tomorrow, and probably at least some listings by tomorrow night, via analog OTA PBS.

I'm convinced that others that have (apparently) met with success in going from a "Restore Factory Defaults" to getting Listings in a purely digital environment have a unique situation at their digital source station. Either that, or else they are somehow mistaken, and an analog signal is sneaking in to their Sony. Unfortunately, the sticking place still seems to be in acquiring the Grid via strictly means. Everything else appears possible.

I plan to make myself a VCR tape of my analog PBS station in the next day or two, while it's still available.

Here is the link to the post following the (lack of) progress -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16300185#post16300185

Footnote: 5:00pm Saturday ... After reconnecting the antenna, I now have a Grid. HostChan is 0:0-12 (OTA PBS analog)..

P.S.: 7:00am Sunday ... Listings are about 50% filled in.

.

Do you think my 1 gig iPod would work?

Thanks Gregg

Is it (or can it be) formatted as FAT32 ?????

Do you think my 1 gig iPod would work?

Thanks Gregg
The only way to know is try it and see if it works.

WKMG broadcasts TVOS for the Orlando area... we know that. So here is my issue: Channels 6-1 and 6-2 have no signal, yet I do have guide data.

Background:
WKMG was broadcasting on channel 58, but recently (earlier this week I think) changed to channel 26. I had to manually modify my Vista HTPC after the channel changed. My HDD-250 had zero guide data for the last few weeks (I hardly use it). So last night I went into setup, changed my zip code, and powered off the unit for it to download data overnight.

This morning, I saw that the unit download a full 8 days of guide data. BUT, using the 753159852 code, my host channel is blank. Naturally, tuning to 6-1 and using the 9012 for a VBI test fails.

Any idea how I can get my CBS channels to display a signal?

-T

If your CBS channel has changed from RF channel 58 to RF channel 26, you need to do a channel scan on the HDD250 to get the channels again. Menu, Preferences, CH +/-, Antenna scan, or something like that.

Mark

I have decided to end this experiment...

I'm convinced that others that have (apparently) met with success in going from a "Restore Factory Defaults" to getting Listings in a purely digital environment have a unique situation at their digital source station.

I too have given up in Buffalo.

T-Bone, Mark,

With respect to ...
This morning, I saw that the unit download a full 8 days of guide data. BUT, using the 753159852 code, my host channel is blank. Naturally, tuning to 6-1 and using the 9012 for a VBI test fails.

I am seeing guide data, VBI test passed and my host channel is blank ... I am just leaving it be until it fails to do something. It appears to be working for the moment.

My Channel 6, WKMG thread follows ...

Your previous posts have indicated that a) you don't have a grid and b) you were waiting for equipment to arrive to fix your head end, estimated 5/1. When your part of the plant is operating properly, you should be able to see VBI counts on channel 90, and what are called VBI counts on channels 106 and 107. I couldn't get a grid until channel 90, an Analog channel 7, KIRO with VBI injected, was working on my part to the Seattle plant, and, of course, without a grid, one gets no listings. If you've not yet done the firmware upgrade, checking these three channels should be trivial. If you have done the firmware upgrade, the G* test works a little differently as noted recently in this thread. So, have you heard news about the repair of your head end? What results do you get from testing these three channels?

Subako, I did the firmware upgrade and left unit off for 5 days. Came back Wednesday at about 12:30am. Only had antenna connected. Zip..nada

Hooked up cable and saw packets only on channel 90. None on 106, 107 or legacy 7 via cable. Left unit ON overnight, no grid or listings.

Turned unit off and overnight the grid came back with some listings. Unplugged unit and installed in bedroom with only cable. My wife accidentally did a TVGOS reset to unit. Next day had grid and listings. (This was Thursday morning). On Saturday morning she reports all 8 days filled in with data.

I am going to figure out how to record Channel 90 onto VHS tape during the updates. I'll use this in case of an emergency.

If your CBS channel has changed from RF channel 58 to RF channel 26, you need to do a channel scan on the HDD250 to get the channels again. Menu, Preferences, CH +/-, Antenna scan, or something like that.

Mark

That did the trick. Thanks.

-T

Hello all,

I haven't been here for a while so haven't kept up with the current state of these Sony DVR's. I have two DHG-HDD250's that have worked nearly flawlessly for three years now. I don't use them but my wife can't live without them.

Last Tuesday both machines started showing "no listings" in the channel lineup, and one has correct time but the other is about 50 minutes slow. I can record but can't tell what I'm recording.

Both machines are early versions and have not been upgraded in any way. I just took them out of the boxes and hooked them up and haven't touched them since.

I read that the local PBS station cut off its analog signal last Thursday so I guess that's related to this recent behaviour.

Before I search any longer for a solution, I just wanted to ask if I was just wasting my time....is there any hope, or are my units just dead?

I'm in Austin, TX. Thanks for any advice.

I too have given up in Buffalo.

I just check my unit (250) and I now have full listing (8) days on all the channels that I selected. What I have decided to do is to keep the unit OFF when not in use. If I see the listings for say day 5,6,7, etc disappear, then I will leave the unit turned ON and tuned to 2.1 CBS here in LA.

One change I noticed on the 753159852 screens is that by host channel is now listed as 0:60-0, which someone in this forums said is an equivalent of 2.1. Why is it displayed this way I do not know. My Failing Clock Channel is still 2.1 and the clock channel is also 2.1.

Don't give up! These are great machines and the SONY firmware .21 worked for me. So you just probably have to wait for your DMA to catch up. LA is a huge market and I guess they have their thing together. So, since I am up and running again, I will probably check this forum every week or so, unless something bad happens to my 250. Thanks! EC

Hello all,

I haven't been here for a while so haven't kept up with the current state of these Sony DVR's. I have two DHG-HDD250's that have worked nearly flawlessly for three years now. I don't use them but my wife can't live without them.

Last Tuesday both machines started showing "no listings" in the channel lineup, and one has correct time but the other is about 50 minutes slow. I can record but can't tell what I'm recording.

Both machines are early versions and have not been upgraded in any way. I just took them out of the boxes and hooked them up and haven't touched them since.

I read that the local PBS station cut off its analog signal last Thursday so I guess that's related to this recent behaviour.

Before I search any longer for a solution, I just wanted to ask if I was just wasting my time....is there any hope, or are my units just dead?

I'm in Austin, TX. Thanks for any advice.

Go to Sony Esupport and download the firmware update .21, If you go back to the posts dated April 17, on this forum you can just click on a link and it will take you to the site. I am just to lazy to do anything now. Good Luck

Hello all,
Last Tuesday both machines started showing "no listings" in the channel lineup, and one has correct time but the other is about 50 minutes slow. I can record but can't tell what I'm recording.

I read that the local PBS station cut off its analog signal last Thursday so I guess that's related to this recent behaviour.

Sony just released new firmware for these units early Friday of LAST week, something you download, put on a thumb drive, and plug into the UBS jack on the rear of the Sony..(the detailed instructions are on the site with the download folder)...check the morning of last Friday in this thread to get a link...

The purpose of this firmware upgrade is to enable the Sony to reliably get data from DIGITAL TVGOS broadcasts...if you check this thread back, you'll see that - even where CBS digital stations began broadcasting digital TVGOS in the middle of last year, these broadcasts have been on-again/off-again deals lately, as the TVGOS people get their act together..Lately many of us have found our units switching themselves from analog to digital TVGOS data, sometimes without even having a host channel, according to the diagnostic menus...

with your present software, there is a way to check a digital broadcast for the POSSIBLE presence of TVGOS packets...it's called the G* test, and there's plenty of discussion of it during the last year on this thread, though you MAY want to simply download the new Sony firmware and go with that...though whether your unit will find a digital TVGOS broadcast in Austin at the moment in the flip of a coin...and it might find such a broadcast WITHOUT the upgrade (as many of us had), but that probably won't work after the transition (for reasons I won't go into...and that I don't fully understand anyway)...

All this OUGHT to be straightened out by the new digital transition date in June, when all the major analog broadcast channels disappear (by which time you should definitely install the upgrade, although in fact the upgrade may itself have a new version by that time)...of course, the TVGOS thing was SUPPOSED to be straightened out by the original transition date in February, but neither the transition nor the straightening out happened on schedule...

hope this helps, but you'll want to do some more reading and checking before you do anything...

I'm in Austin, TX. Thanks for any advice.

You didn't mention if you get your signal OTA, but according to rabbitears KEYE is broadcasting digital TVGOS (http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=33691#station), so if you can tune them you should get listings. Don't do a reset though because right now, if you lose your channel lineup it may be really difficult to get it back. :(

Hello all,

I haven't been here for a while so haven't kept up with the current state of these Sony DVR's. I have two DHG-HDD250's that have worked nearly flawlessly for three years now. I don't use them but my wife can't live without them.

Last Tuesday both machines started showing "no listings" in the channel lineup, and one has correct time but the other is about 50 minutes slow. I can record but can't tell what I'm recording.

Both machines are early versions and have not been upgraded in any way. I just took them out of the boxes and hooked them up and haven't touched them since.

I read that the local PBS station cut off its analog signal last Thursday so I guess that's related to this recent behaviour.

Before I search any longer for a solution, I just wanted to ask if I was just wasting my time....is there any hope, or are my units just dead?

I'm in Austin, TX. Thanks for any advice.

gwsmith,
The good news is it sounds like you still have a channel lineup (grid). It is just showing no listings because you no longer have your analog host providing data. Avoid doing any sort of "reset" in the special menus. If you lose your grid, you will be in a much worse position than you are now.

My advice would be to perform the "Force digital host" procedure outlined in the link below. This simply directs your DVR to look for the TVGOS listings on the digital channel which should be digital CBS (KEYE in your area, OTA Ch 42-1). After doing this you should see your listings start to repopulate within 24hrs.

http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=25.0

You didn't mention if you get your signal OTA, but according to rabbitears KEYE is broadcasting digital TVGOS (http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=33691#station), so if you can tune them you should get listings. Don't do a reset though because right now, if you lose your channel lineup it may be really difficult to get it back. :(

gwsmith,
The good news is it sounds like you still have a channel lineup (grid). It is just showing no listings because you no longer have your analog host providing data. Avoid doing any sort of "reset" in the special menus. If you lose your grid, you will be in a much worse position than you are now.

My advice would be to perform the "Force digital host" procedure outlined in the link below. This simply directs your DVR to look for the TVGOS listings on the digital channel which should be digital CBS (KEYE in your area, OTA Ch 42-1). After doing this you should see your listings start to repopulate within 24hrs.

http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=25.0
gwsmith,

Follow PossumGirl's and teeitup's advice. Also here is a link to the new Sony firmware (http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-list.pl?mdl=DHGHDD250&LOC=3&session_id=464ffa81bf89ed489c463e6d4cfd80bf) that the others mentioned.

Mark

You didn't mention if you get your signal OTA, but according to rabbitears KEYE is broadcasting digital TVGOS (http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=33691#station), so if you can tune them you should get listings. Don't do a reset though because right now, if you lose your channel lineup it may be really difficult to get it back. :(
but you might want to check with the G* test to make sure there appear to be TVGOS packets from this station NOW, because of the on-again/off-again problem...

I tried to schedule a manual recording of channel 162 BBC America and got this error message:

SCHEDULING ERROR
This show cannot be
scheduled to record
because this channel is
not available in your
lineup.

This is puzzling because channel 162 BBC America is in my grid, it does have listings and it is checked in my channel +/- list.

I was able to schedule a recording by using the listing in the grid, but when it came time for the recording, no recording occured and the scheduled recording had disappeared from the schedule. I had this error occur for 671 History Channel HD just after I got my grid back, but I tried again about four hours later and the error no longer occured.

Can anyone shed some light on what I need to do to fix this?

gwsmith,

Follow PossumGirl's and teeitup's advice. Also here is a link to the new Sony firmware (http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-list.pl?mdl=DHGHDD250&LOC=3&session_id=464ffa81bf89ed489c463e6d4cfd80bf) that the others mentioned.

Mark

Thanks All!! I followed your advice with one of the DVR's and now I'm waiting until the morning to see if I've got listings. An encouraging sign is that the clock on that unit has updated already....the first time in nearly a week. If this works I'll tackle the second DVR tomorrow.

Now I have another question. I went to the Sony site and downloaded the software update, but I'm wondering....if I can receive TVGOS data from KEYE (CBS-OTA), do I still need to do the update? I'm a believer in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" but I don't understand enough about this to know what I'd be "fixing" anyway.

Thanks All!! I followed your advice with one of the DVR's and now I'm waiting until the morning to see if I've got listings. An encouraging sign is that the clock on that unit has updated already....the first time in nearly a week. If this works I'll tackle the second DVR tomorrow.

Now I have another question. I went to the Sony site and downloaded the software update, but I'm wondering....if I can receive TVGOS data from KEYE (CBS-OTA), do I still need to do the update? I'm a believer in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" but I don't understand enough about this to know what I'd be "fixing" anyway.

No this is a new firmware version that can only be applied through the USB port.

You will ultimately need this version when analog goes away for good. You may be able to get away without it in the short term if you can get TVGOS updates.

I tried to schedule a manual recording of channel 162 BBC America and got this error message:

SCHEDULING ERROR
This show cannot be
scheduled to record
because this channel is
not available in your
lineup.

This is puzzling because channel 162 BBC America is in my grid, it does have listings and it is checked in my channel +/- list.

I was able to schedule a recording by using the listing in the grid, but when it came time for the recording, no recording occured and the scheduled recording had disappeared from the schedule. I had this error occur for 671 History Channel HD just after I got my grid back, but I tried again about four hours later and the error no longer occured.

Can anyone shed some light on what I need to do to fix this?I've never seen this message OTA (because an OTA channel does NOT need to be in your TVGOS lineup in order to record it), so perhaps it means its not in your CABLE lineup.) Do you use a cable card or clear QAM? Can you actually tune to that channel and get a picture? Is it a relatively new channel from your cable provider? If so, maybe your cable company has not informed TVGOS yet that it was added to the lineup. If you have a cable card, maybe it needs to be reset.

This sort of nonsense is why I use OTA only!

Thanks All!! I followed your advice with one of the DVR's and now I'm waiting until the morning to see if I've got listings. An encouraging sign is that the clock on that unit has updated already....the first time in nearly a week. If this works I'll tackle the second DVR tomorrow.

Now I have another question. I went to the Sony site and downloaded the software update, but I'm wondering....if I can receive TVGOS data from KEYE (CBS-OTA), do I still need to do the update? I'm a believer in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" but I don't understand enough about this to know what I'd be "fixing" anyway.

I would install the new firmware at some point. I generally agree with the "if it ain't broke..." philosophy, but it was broke, or you wouldn't be here ;).

One of the many unaswered questions is if your unit had this new firmware on it would you have lost your listings, or would it have found the digital host channel on its own.

You could be a guinea pig for us... A true test of the new firmware would be to install it on your other unit, without doing the force host channel procedure, and see if it works again (without going into hidden menus, and running G* Tests, etc).

Mark

My latest Chicago status report, OTA-only, FWIW:

I've never done a full factory reset nor lost my grid, and am still using my real ZIP code. Since the firmware update, I've consistently had 08.01.71/08.06.44, and my clock has been fine. As of two days ago, my Failing Clock Channel and Clock Set Channel were both 0:0-2 (CBS analog); as of today the latter is now 0:0-11 (PBS analog). My System Stats page shows 0x3 for HostID, but still nothing at all for HostChan. My ATSC Slicer screen still shows increments under CurrChan, but nothing under HostChan. I've been leaving it tuned to 2.1 at night, but using AutoOff.

Yesterday (Thursday), though, I discovered that several channels, notably including 2.1 (CBS digital) and all the other major network stations (NBC, CBS, Fox, and one of the local PBSs) had simply disappeared from my grid. I could enter the digits and view them just fine, but the Guide merely listed them as "AIR." When I went to reset my Channel Display I finally found them (by call letters) way down at the bottom of the (575-item) list, turned off, lacking any channels to tune to. I spent the better part of two hours getting them all back where they belonged again.

Today I was relieved to see that all the channels were still in place. However, several were still chock-full of "No Listings," including (e.g.) the timeslot for tonight's Dollhouse on Fox, which before Thursday was listed right where it belonged.

So, in a nutshell, the local CBS has all sorts of intermittent trouble with the datastream, period, not just to the cablecos. Just what the devil are WBBM and/or Macrovision doing these days? Anyone have a clue?




Three 500's, OTA Only, Chicago, all updated with .21 firmware:

Very similar results to yours on one unit, except I only have a few "No Listings" blocks in Day 8 on one DVR, and I do not leave them tuned to 2.1 before turning off:

I have never done a full factory reset nor lost my grid, and am still using my real ZIP code.

Since the firmware update, all three have consistently had 08.01.71/08.06.44, and my clock has been fine.

As of today, one unit had the Failing Clock Channel at 0:0-2 (CBS analog) and the Clock Set Channel at 0:0-11 (PBS analog). A second unit had the Failing Clock Channel at 0:3-0 (CBS digital) and the Clock Set Channel at 0:0-2 (CBS analog).

My System Stats page shows 0x3 for HostID, and this morning 0:0-11 for Host Channel on the one the two units I checked.

Where I live and with my setup, I have trouble getting 2.1 (CBS digital) during rain and/or thunderstorms, due to the difficulties of low-band VHF. We have been having a lot of rain lately, and I was wondering if signal troubles also affect VBI? Logic dictates that would be the case.

I was under the impression that PBS (11) was not transmitting TVGOS any longer, so was curious to see this station listed as the Clock Set Channel and the Host Channel.

I do not understand why my three units all exhibit slightly different results. Perhaps it has to do with signal quality, as two of them share a splitter.

As long as they are working, I am not going to worry about it.:)

Mark

Perhaps this is a cable-only issue - I upgraded to the latest firmware and have no trouble doing manual recordings of any channel, in the grid or not. I just tried a test recording of 17.2 (ThisTV in Philly), which is not yet in the grid (though my wife wishes it were) and it worked fine.

You can do it two ways:
a) Tune to the station you want to record, press and hold the RECORD button until the manual record menu pops up, set the times and dates and schedule it.

b) Press and hold RECORD until the manual record menu pops up, navigate to the "Channel" box, and type in the channel number (regardless of whether it's in the grid or not.) Set times and dates, and schedule it.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Methods a) works fine on both .13 and .21 and I should have been more clear: I do not use a cable card. This results in the strange channel numbers. And to be more specific, if I tune to Nick (73.10 QAM64), I can use either a) or b) with either update. As a note: my LG LST3410a shows NBC HD as 84.401. So I tried b) and entered the channel as 84.1401, but the DHD made it into 84-401. I left that and waited. The DVR blinked and was actually showing 84.401 when I turned it on after the (one second) recording finished. I went up a channel and got 85.1501. Great! Then I saw there was no recording. Then every key on the remote locked. After 10 minutes I did a front panel reset. Clock came back in 30 seconds. Schedule for a daily recording of 84.401 was still there. This lockup may not be new since I haven't tried it on .13 yet. So basically, I have no problem with clear QAM if the channel number is 2 or 3 decimal places but NOW fail with scheduling those with 4 decimal places. It's probably unique and not worth spending time on. This is a TVGOS problem, not a Sony problem. Thanks for your help and wish me luck with getting an antenna to work. I blame my cable company for all of this. I blame them for cloudy days.

I was under the impression that PBS (11) was not transmitting TVGOS any longer, so was curious to see this station listed as the Clock Set Channel and the Host Channel.

Mark

PBS turned on analog TVGOS data in the last month or so. It's probably an emergency relief effort because of all the TVGOS problems and will go away soon. I don't use it anymore because Comcast switched their special analog channel from PBS to CBS.

I would install the new firmware at some point. I generally agree with the "if it ain't broke..." philosophy, but it was broke, or you wouldn't be here ;).

One of the many unaswered questions is if your unit had this new firmware on it would you have lost your listings, or would it have found the digital host channel on its own.

You could be a guinea pig for us... A true test of the new firmware would be to install it on your other unit, without doing the force host channel procedure, and see if it works again (without going into hidden menus, and running G* Tests, etc).

Mark

Well, yes, it was "broke" but now it's apparently fixed, and without the firmware update. Listings are 60-70% filled in since having nothing last night.

Pardon my ignorance, but what I don't understand is how I can be getting TVGOS data from KEYE-DT (OTA) if my DVR is not yet updated to receive this digitally? This is the part that apparently "ain't broke" at this time, but I don't understand why that is.

If I play the guinea pig, I assume I still have the option of forcing the host channel, right? If I really mess up, I may be headed for divorce court, and that would be a shame after 45 years!

Well, yes, it was "broke" but now it's apparently fixed, and without the firmware update. Listings are 60-70% filled in since having nothing last night.

Pardon my ignorance, but what I don't understand is how I can be getting TVGOS data from KEYE-DT (OTA) if my DVR is not yet updated to receive this digitally? This is the part that apparently "ain't broke" at this time, but I don't understand why that is.

If I play the guinea pig, I assume I still have the option of forcing the host channel, right? If I really mess up, I may be headed for divorce court, and that would be a shame after 45 years!

Many here have been able to receive listings from a digital channel just fine prior to the new firmware release, but usually not without some user intervention such as the G* test. The new firmware is supposed to allow the units to "see" digital without the need for G* tests and "host forcing".

Based on posts here, the new firmware does not seem to cause any problems so you'd likely be fine installing it. As mentioned earlier, as long as you have your channel lineup (grid) you're good to go. The new firmware doesn't seem to have done much of anything to fix the problem of rebuilding the lineup though if you lose it. We're all hoping some further update will be forthcoming to address this. ;)

Well, yes, it was "broke" but now it's apparently fixed, and without the firmware update. Listings are 60-70% filled in since having nothing last night.

Pardon my ignorance, but what I don't understand is how I can be getting TVGOS data from KEYE-DT (OTA) if my DVR is not yet updated to receive this digitally? This is the part that apparently "ain't broke" at this time, but I don't understand why that is.


That is a question that only Sony (and macrovision?) can answer, since "it can't work without an upgrade" is their official position. However their "fix" apparently is still not working for a lot of people.



If I play the guinea pig, I assume I still have the option of forcing the host channel, right? If I really mess up, I may be headed for divorce court, and that would be a shame after 45 years!

Yes, you can force the host channel afterward if necessary. I can understand why you wouldn't want to do the upgrade. As far as I know, nobody (except JoeKustra with his oddly numbered cable channels refusing to do manual recordings) has had problems after the upgrade, that they weren't already having before the upgrade (including me).

Mark

Many here have been able to receive listings from a digital channel just fine prior to the new firmware release, but usually not without some user intervention such as the G* test. The new firmware is supposed to allow the units to "see" digital without the need for G* tests and "host forcing".

Based on posts here, the new firmware does not seem to cause any problems so you'd likely be fine installing it. As mentioned earlier, as long as you have your channel lineup (grid) you're good to go. The new firmware doesn't seem to have done much of anything to fix the problem of rebuilding the lineup though if you lose it. We're all hoping some further update will be forthcoming to address this. ;)


I had No Grid and No Listings and it rebuilt it and filled in full 8 days in less than 36 hours, after the new Sony Software install. I still think most of the problems most have are because of the very long and drawn out DTV delay, and multi stage phase-in of DTV - instead of the "one day" shot we were suppose to have.

I had No Grid and No Listings and it rebuilt it and filled in full 8 days in less than 36 hours, after the new Sony Software install. I still think most of the problems most have are because of the very long and drawn out DTV delay, and multi stage phase-in of DTV - instead of the "one day" shot we were suppose to have.

HoustonPerson,
Yours does work, but you have an analog TVGOS source. Analog TVGOS has been working successfully for years. All you have really proven is that Sony didn't break the analog functionality with their upgrade. It is still the digital side of things that is uncertain.

Mark

HoustonPerson,
Yours does work, but you have an analog TVGOS source. Analog TVGOS has been working successfully for years. All you have really proven is that Sony didn't break the analog functionality with their upgrade. It is still the digital side of things that is uncertain.


I agree. My test unit on which I aborted the "digital only" test yesterday, now has a Grid and Listings via OTA analog PBS. In the "digital only" scenario it was stuck at trying to acquire the Grid. For "digital only" there is still a piece of the puzzle missing, either on the broadcast end or on the firmware end. :(

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16339922#post16339922

Before updating to version 1.2.21, Washington D.C. CBS, OTA channel 9.1, showed VBI packets and passed the G test. Under 1.2.21, no VBI packets are detected, and the VBI test fails. The TV guide does not appear after 24 hours, and the time stamp is incorrect. Has anyone successfully got the TV guide and correct time stamp in the D.C. area after PBS ended the analog TV Guide transmission? If so, how was this done, and what ZIP code was used?

Do you use a cable card or clear QAM?Cable card.Can you actually tune to that channel and get a picture?Yes.Is it a relatively new channel from your cable provider?No.If you have a cable card, maybe it needs to be reset.I have tried powerdown, unseating, powerup, powerdown, reseating the cable card, and powerup. I'll call Comcast to have the three cable signal resets resent. That seems most likely what is needed, unless I need to swap out the Cable Card entirely. Both of my other DHGs have exactly the same CCLineup, 0x2ACC, and have no problem recording this channel.

HoustonPerson,
Yours does work, but you have an analog TVGOS source. Analog TVGOS has been working successfully for years. All you have really proven is that Sony didn't break the analog functionality with their upgrade. It is still the digital side of things that is uncertain.

Mark

yes, no, maybe, could be; but not in that order.

The "last" analogue download my sony box received was April 20th. All Guide downloads since that time have been digital. It does seem to have a "preference" for digital. Also the "9th" day of the Guide has filled in during "prime time" each evening for the last 5 days. I suppose there are about a dozen key things that are signifcantly different than before - such as those two items mentioned.

You didn't mention if you get your signal OTA, but according to rabbitears KEYE is broadcasting digital TVGOS (http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=33691#station), so if you can tune them you should get listings. Don't do a reset though because right now, if you lose your channel lineup it may be really difficult to get it back. :(

According to that same source, WJCT in Jacksonville is too but, there is no Guide, no host. I am trying to resolve this with the station.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Methods a) works fine on both .13 and .21 and I should have been more clear: I do not use a cable card. This results in the strange channel numbers. And to be more specific, if I tune to Nick (73.10 QAM64), I can use either a) or b) with either update. As a note: my LG LST3410a shows NBC HD as 84.401. So I tried b) and entered the channel as 84.1401, but the DHD made it into 84-401. I left that and waited. The DVR blinked and was actually showing 84.401 when I turned it on after the (one second) recording finished. I went up a channel and got 85.1501. Great! Then I saw there was no recording. Then every key on the remote locked. After 10 minutes I did a front panel reset. Clock came back in 30 seconds. Schedule for a daily recording of 84.401 was still there. This lockup may not be new since I haven't tried it on .13 yet. So basically, I have no problem with clear QAM if the channel number is 2 or 3 decimal places but NOW fail with scheduling those with 4 decimal places. It's probably unique and not worth spending time on. This is a TVGOS problem, not a Sony problem. Thanks for your help and wish me luck with getting an antenna to work. I blame my cable company for all of this. I blame them for cloudy days.
I f yours still works with the old firmware, I would say you still have an analog signal. any disagreements.

Before updating to version 1.2.21, Washington D.C. CBS, OTA channel 9.1, showed VBI packets and passed the G test. Under 1.2.21, no VBI packets are detected, and the VBI test fails. The TV guide does not appear after 24 hours, and the time stamp is incorrect. Has anyone successfully got the TV guide and correct time stamp in the D.C. area after PBS ended the analog TV Guide transmission? If so, how was this done, and what ZIP code was used?

Yes, the behavior of the G* test has changed. See: post upgrade G* behavior (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16287432#post16287432) and G* test still necessary? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16319795#post16319795)

I f yours still works with the old firmware, I would say you still have an analog signal. any disagreements.

Yes, my analog TVGOS station here in Columbus, Ohio (WOSU 34) went off the air a few weeks ago. I'm OTA only and have firmware 1.2.06. TVGOS software is 8.06.44. My grid was filled with "No Listing", and my clock was still correct (DHG500 connected to UPS). I found out through SpiffSpace that my local CBS digital channel was broadcasting the guide data. Following Spiff's directions, I forced the new host channel. By morning I had full listings for 8 days. I never reset anything, so I never lost my grid. I think I'd be in trouble if I had. I'm not upgrading to 1.2.21 until it stops working. I should note there are 4 analog stations still broadcasting in my area (CBS, ABC, NBC, and Fox) but they don't broadcast TVGOS data (I G*tested them all).

The new firmware doesn't seem to have done much of anything to fix the problem of rebuilding the lineup though if you lose it. We're all hoping some further update will be forthcoming to address this. ;)

Is this true? I thought I had read some reports of digital only area users who got full restored operation on 1.2.21. Was this only those who already had a lineup?