Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread [Text View] - Page 72

mabuttra

06-22-09, 09:34 PM

I have lost all guide data. Is this update I heard about the answer, and where and how do you download it to the unit? I really do not want to have to start PAYING for my tv.

Thanks

It depends, do you have a grid, but it is filled with "No Listing"? Go here (http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php) and look up your city. Does the site list any TVGOS stations transmitting in your area? If so, then have you run the G* Test on the channel that it shows is transmitting TVGOS data? Did the G* Test pass by showing incrementing counts in the VBI field?

If the G* Test passed, and that is the first time you have ever run it, then data will probably start filling in on its own tonight. If there is no TVGOS data being transmitted in your area, then there is nothing you can do, and the update won't help you. If after running the G* Test the data does start filling in on its own, then I recommend that you download and install the update from here (http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-list.pl?mdl=DHGHDD500&LOC=3&session_id=55d09058c569f3af0560af8c3d3acaa1) following Sony's instructions.

If you don't have a grid (The TVGOS says no data for this screen), then I would run the G* Test, and hope you are in an area of the country that doesn't have incomplete TVGOS data.

Mark

Terry_L_G

06-23-09, 03:08 AM

I have a DHG-HDD250, OTA only. I had been receiving listing updates from digital CBS 5.1 fine until June 12th, and then I did a rescan to get the new channel mappings. I think I was still getting updates but noticed some holes in the listings. My host channel was blank.

On Saturday, I applied the firmware update from Sony and confirmed that I have the .21 version. Then, based on old info, I was going to do a 9012 G* Factory Test to see if I get VBI data, but I accidentally hit the Reset to Factory Default :eek: on that menu. I ended up with no lineup. In TVGOS, Listings and Setup/Change channel display both show "There is no data for this screen".

I've tuned to local CBS 5.1 and done the 9012 G* test, but it always fails the VBI test (is this normal with the new FW from Sony?). Sometime Sunday I started receiving ads, and the clock is set correctly.

The 753* screen shows the TVGOS version as 08.06.44. The Failing Clock Chan is 0:29-0 (CBS 5.1 is broadcast on RF chan 29). The Clock Set Chan is fffffffd. VBI Chan is also 0:5-1 and Host Chan is blank. ATSC slicer shows incrementing PAT, PMT, TVG, Tot Sections, C Good and Dummy for Curr Chan (Host Chan column is all zeros). Reception-VBI Stats shows 0 for LineupPkt, 8188 for LineupSelPkt, and large numbers for the other Pkts indicators.

So my questions are:
Should the 9012 G* VBI test fail?
Why no LineupPkts?
Any suggestions on how to get a lineup?
Does anyone else think it is just WRONG to be proficient navigating the 753* diagnostic screens? :rolleyes:

Thx, Terry

HoustonPerson

06-23-09, 07:06 AM

Day 9 was 50% complete at 10:00pm? I'd like you to take a picture of that, and post it. Remember listings through 4:00am of day 9 does not constitute 50% of the data ;).

Mark

Pictures are you kidding. I was surprized I was even up that late. Yea the day 9 thing sort of shocked me too. Like I say, it did one of those last search (??? whatevers), with a new date/time stamp. I assume some of the changes from TVGOS this weekend

For those of you getting the occasional Day 8 "no title" - Does it seem to be just the FOX station only at Prime Time?

edit: well take that back, just checked the Day 8 this morning and now PBS has some "no titles" - oh well LOL

funny thing is, the "no titles" usually seem to fill in by late afternoon.

So we only get 7.90 days under the digital world - LOL

avJohnny

06-23-09, 08:42 AM

videobruce

06-23-09, 09:03 AM

I assume the first step is to try 1.2.21? After that, then what? Pray, or just sell it on e-bay. :D

WS65711

06-23-09, 10:23 AM

So are you saying that YOU can acquire a Channel Lineup (Grid) TODAY (post analog cutoff) without having a HostChan set in the 753 menu? Have you proved that by doing a "TVGuide Reset" from the 9012 menu?

I currently have a unit in testing, that I performed a TVGuide Reset on Tuesday night. It has not acquired a Channel Lineup yet. It also has not acquired a HostChan yet, although I am hoping that it may have a HostChan set by tonight based on the amount of time it took to acquire the digital HostChan after the transition last Friday.

After it aquires the HostChan, I am hoping that it will acquire the Channel Lineup. But that step is uncharted waters (for me) following the transition.

I also have a co-worker who just bought a used HDD500 and has done the TVGuide Reset and is also waiting for the HostChan to set and for the Channel Lineup to appear. So there are currently two units in my area that are in "testing" from a TVG Reset since the transition.

If I manage to get a Channel Lineup prior to establishing a HostChan in the 753 menu, I will drive to Houston an buy you dinner and all the beer you can drink. :D

To update: As of yesterday afternoon the co-worker's HDD500 referenced above has acquired a HostChan, Channel Lineup (Grid), and Program Listings. For reference, his DHG is connected to OTA only.

Rbrodzinsky

06-23-09, 10:27 AM

I've tuned to local CBS 5.1 and done the 9012 G* test, but it always fails the VBI test (is this normal with the new FW from Sony?). Sometime Sunday I started receiving ads, and the clock is set correctly.

Yes - this is normal. with the .21 software, digitial TVGOS fails VBI

The 753* screen shows the TVGOS version as 08.06.44. The Failing Clock Chan is 0:29-0 (CBS 5.1 is broadcast on RF chan 29). The Clock Set Chan is fffffffd. VBI Chan is also 0:5-1 and Host Chan is blank. ATSC slicer shows incrementing PAT, PMT, TVG, Tot Sections, C Good and Dummy for Curr Chan (Host Chan column is all zeros). Reception-VBI Stats shows 0 for LineupPkt, 8188 for LineupSelPkt, and large numbers for the other Pkts indicators.

So my questions are:

Should the 9012 G* VBI test fail? Yes - see above

Why no LineupPkts? Don't know, but I never see any, either

Any suggestions on how to get a lineup? You are on your way to full recovery. My suggestion, try leaving the unit on and tuned to 5.1 for the better part of a day

Does anyone else think it is just WRONG to be proficient navigating the 753* diagnostic screens? :rolleyes:

ROTFL

ss-stingray

06-23-09, 11:03 AM

So after shutoff everything seemed to be working just fine. Still had full guide population, VBI packets in the G* test, and could sync the clock no problem. On Saturday, the power went out, and I went to use the G* test to force a clock sync, and accidentally did a TV Guide reset.

After punching in my zip code, it's been three days now, with not even a clock update. I'm still getting VBI packets in the G* test, but I am using firmware 1.2.05.

I assume the first step is to try 1.2.21? After that, then what? Feel free to point me to reference posts. I looked around for the information but couldn't find any posts that had any clear instructions on what to do.

Oh, also, how do I get to the ATSC slicer page? I assume this shows more accurate information as to whether or not you're getting real TV guide data, and the G* VBI test is just the basics?

Thanks!

You should do the .21 firmware. After leave the dhg tunned to your known host channel in the off condition. Don't bother doing the vbi test with the .21 firmware. The atsc page is part of the .21 update. If your OTA then it may take up to 30 days to get a grid. I was never able to get a grid but gave up after 20 days. That was before June . You can use the dhg like a vcr by doing manual recordings untill you get the grid back. If for any reason you loose power than you will start counting days over untill you get the grid. I hope this helps. Good luck

Michael1138

06-23-09, 11:23 AM

hdaddiction

06-23-09, 03:47 PM

Is anyone in the Saint Louis, MO area experiencing any problems with their clock or TV guide?

Last Thursday my DHG-HDD 500 was starting to lock up during recordings so I reset all of my settings and my clock has been wrong and my tv listings have been blank ever since.

I tried doing a G* Factory Test on my host channel KMOV 4-1 and the VBI failed every time, so I tried it on every channel I had and the VBI still failed.

Yesterday I did the extreme and formatted my DVR and my clock is still wrong. I'm not sure what I should do now.

Edit: Forgot to mention, before I reformatted I tried the zipcode 00000, thing then changed it back to my mine and still no change.

This is weird. I have a 500 and 250 identical set ups. The 500 gets all the guide through day 8. the 250 gets only today and sporaidic fill in for the rest of the 7 days.

On charter which passes the guide on channel 94 which is showing as host on both machines.

What gives?

HdAddiction

AtlantisMichael

06-23-09, 04:15 PM

This is weird. I have a 500 and 250 identical set ups. The 500 gets all the guide through day 8. the 250 gets only today and sporaidic fill in for the rest of the 7 days.

On charter which passes the guide on channel 94 which is showing as host on both machines.

What gives?

HdAddiction
My girlfriend has the same problem out in Woodstock,GA except it is the 500 instead of the 250 that has the problem. 97 is the digital host and shows as such on the 500, but the 250 still shows analog 2, which no longer is broadcasting. So I think it is really 97, as the clock set channel shows 97. Both units are using cable cards. Are you using cable cards?
Michael

AtlantisMichael

06-23-09, 04:23 PM

drm2295

06-23-09, 05:42 PM

Well from some of the posts here, it looks as though a grid is possible in short order. If that is the case, then it looks like the grid problem is related to the local TVGOS transmission for the areas which are having trouble building a grid. Will be testing this soon in the Atlanta market to see how long it takes to build a grid from a total reset and OTA only using the old firmware first, then the new .21 later.
Michael

I'm getting up the nerve to do the same thing here in the Columbus, Ohio market. My 500 is OTA only with firmware 1.2.06, and I'm having the record lockup problem so I will probably follow the instructions here http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=7b7a8b01254ae23d92d556eec73cd3b4&topic=38.0
Has anyone here tried this procedure? I will lose the grid and everything in the channel editor right? If so (as per the instructions) how can I still have my host channel in the channel editor? I've been following this thread for the last 3 months. It's part of my daily ritual. You guys are hilarious at times. Thanks for the information and the entertainment!

mabuttra

06-23-09, 06:07 PM

HoustonPerson

06-23-09, 06:10 PM

Same in Houston

mabuttra

06-23-09, 06:18 PM

WS65711

06-23-09, 06:28 PM

I have met with success again on my "Test Unit #3". This afternoon I have HostChan, Channel Lineup, and am waiting for Listings....... :D

This on the unit that I accidentally "Reset" on Friday (thanks to HoustonPerson).......... :D :D :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16678751#post16678751

mabuttra

06-23-09, 06:44 PM

Possumgirl

06-23-09, 07:37 PM

hdaddiction

06-23-09, 07:39 PM

My girlfriend has the same problem out in Woodstock,GA except it is the 500 instead of the 250 that has the problem. 97 is the digital host and shows as such on the 500, but the 250 still shows analog 2, which no longer is broadcasting. So I think it is really 97, as the clock set channel shows 97. Both units are using cable cards. Are you using cable cards?
Michael

Identical set ups cable card both show same hosts.

WS65711

06-23-09, 08:46 PM

.... of all the people getting a host channel to set. Neither of my OTA only units have blessed me with that yet. They are, however, consistently getting day 8 listings regardless of what channel is tuned when turned off, so they do know where to look. :D

Despite the encouraging posts about success in getting a grid back, I do worry that mine may have a problem if I lose channel lineup. They are receiving lots of lineup packets, but the time zone packets are few (and I do mean few) and far between. The 250 has only received one. I don't know if it was coincidence or because I tried the "force host" procedure on it. That's the only thing force host did though...it sure didn't set the host. :)

I have never tried to force any Hosts, ever. All I did on my three units was to blank out the old analog HostChan by "moving" to Hollywood, and back to LA (Louisiana). Then they all picked up the new digital HostChan by themselves. Then I intentionally did the TV Guide Reset on unit #3 to see what would happen. It successfully got the HostChan back, and the Grid, and the Listings. :D Then I accidentally screwed up and Reset it again.......... :eek: But it rebuilt itself again.... :D

I feel pretty certain that you will continue to get Listings without having a Host displayed in the HostChan field. I'm also pretty certain that you will need to have a HostChan displayed in that field before your unit will acquire a Channel Lineup after a TV Guide Reset.

I agree that the channel setting when the unit is turned off seems to make no difference whatsoever. Also, unlike some people here, I have never seen any 8.5 or 9-days of Listings on any of my units. Maybe 8.5 or 9 days is a clue that your unit will not get a HostChan? :confused:

avnstf

06-23-09, 09:02 PM

My Sony has been getting TVGOS data, though with a couple of oddities (mentioned below), and I had previously added in the channel 3 output of my DTVPal as an experiment last week (which got me successful 1,2,5,8 overnight downloads with channel 3 as the host channel). Among the oddities are 1) NO listings for KQED 9.1, the principal (and only HD) PBS station in the SF area, 2) a persistence in going to "cable 3" (which is how I initially hooked up last week, but changed to just a joiner into the antenna input because of the LONG list of cable channels that were enabled uselessly in the TV Guide) whenever I press "3" on my remote...I can hear the "click" as it changes to the cable input, even though the TV Guide has been set to OTA only since I introduced the joiner.

Anyway, I've reconnected the DTVPal output to the joiner, so I can see whether - as I expect - it simply switches back to a channel 3 host in a day or so (but STILL with no KQED 9.1 listings, I predict), while I also watch to see what my 3410a does with a branch of the same DTVPal output over the same period (described here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16708763#post16708763)) in the 3410a thread. (My main reason for this experiment - aside from the oddities with the Sony mentioned above - is that I have gotten ZERO listings since June 12 for my 3410a!)

I'm interested in suggestions about the missing 9.1 listings or about the fact that the unit maintains cable 3 in the Sony...ah, I just realized that I may not have rescanned after disconnecting the DTVPal output from the joiner a few days ago...hm. Also, any suggestions concerning the 3410a issues as described in my post there would also be welcome...Tony :confused:

mabuttra

06-23-09, 09:53 PM

[...]
I'm interested in suggestions about the missing 9.1 listings or about the fact that the unit maintains cable 3 in the Sony...ah, I just realized that I may not have rescanned after disconnecting the DTVPal output from the joiner a few days ago...hm.
[...]

I believe you just answered your own question. When you press 3 on the remote, it goes to the only channel 3 that is in your scanned channel list, and (since you didn't rescan to get rid of it) that is cable channel 3.

Here is something else you may not know about how the DHG tuner works. Being OTA only you can still tune to any cable station just by going to that OTA channel, and then enter the channel again. You hear the click and then you see the cable channel. The opposite is also true (if cable only tune to any OTA station by doing the same thing). So for example you want to tune to cable channel 10, you just enter channel 10 on the remote (no signal), then enter channel 10 again, and there is cable channel 10. I believe if you enter channel 10 a third time it will go back to OTA channel 10.

Mark

WS65711

06-23-09, 10:42 PM

Here is something else you may not know about how the DHG tuner works. Being OTA only you can still tune to any cable station just by going to that OTA channel, and then enter the channel again. You hear the click and then you see the cable channel..............

Is there a "name" to describe tuners that function like this? These DVR's are the only devices I've had experience with that do this. I think it's much better than having to change inputs to tune between OTA and Cable. When I look at specs, or try to describe this functionality to sales people in electronics stores, I get blank stares...... :confused:

mabuttra

06-23-09, 11:53 PM

.... of all the people getting a host channel to set. Neither of my OTA only units have blessed me with that yet. They are, however, consistently getting day 8 listings regardless of what channel is tuned when turned off, so they do know where to look. :D

Despite the encouraging posts about success in getting a grid back, I do worry that mine may have a problem if I lose channel lineup. They are receiving lots of lineup packets, but the time zone packets are few (and I do mean few) and far between. The 250 has only received one. I don't know if it was coincidence or because I tried the "force host" procedure on it. That's the only thing force host did though...it sure didn't set the host. :)

Unfortunately, from what I can tell, all the "force host" channel does is "suggests" to the DHG that it might find the data it is looking for on this channel. However, as you said in your first statement, the DHG already knows how to find the data on its own.

I still can't believe that the TVGOS data is still this screwed up, after the fiasco that happened in March, when they briefly pulled the plug on most of the analog data. Except for WS65711, few people seem to be any better off than they were over 3 months ago. I find it hard to believe that cities as big as LA, and Chicago, would have such bad data, since there is probably a higher concentration of these units in bigger cities (more people to complain). You would think they would have concentrated on fixing the data there first.

Mark

mabuttra

06-24-09, 12:03 AM

Also, unlike some people here, I have never seen any 8.5 or 9-days of Listings on any of my units.

Try looking after 8:00pm. Jump clear to the end of the grid, and you may find that day 9 is visible. Tonight is Tuesday, and I actually have a grid through next Wednesday. However, the grid is only filled in through 4:00am (which is actually data it got last night), and the rest of the grid is No Listing, since that data won't fill in until late tonight.

Mark

mabuttra

06-24-09, 12:10 AM

Is there a "name" to describe tuners that function like this? These DVR's are the only devices I've had experience with that do this. I think it's much better than having to change inputs to tune between OTA and Cable. When I look at specs, or try to describe this functionality to sales people in electronics stores, I get blank stares...... :confused:

I don't know what you would call this functionality. I discovered this by accident once when I mistakenly entered the same channel that I was currently on, and heard a "click", and then no signal. Curious as to whether it actually switched to cable, I connected the cable line, and the picture was there. I've gotten my fair share of blank stares from "sales people" (you forgot the quotes :p) also, but they are always happy to tell me about their sale on batteries.

Mark

avnstf

06-24-09, 12:15 AM

I believe you just answered your own question. When you press 3 on the remote, it goes to the only channel 3 that is in your scanned channel list, and (since you didn't rescan to get rid of it) that is cable channel 3.

well, not exactly, channel 3 OTA is definitely in my scanned channel list! (I definitely DID rescan after I first joined the Pal output with the antenna signal) But so is cable OTA, which can explain why I MIGHT get the nonexistent cable 3 when I push the "3" button...still doesn't explain the lack of PBS 9.1 listings...which is a point of commonality with the 3410a presently....

and, of course, as I noted what I really can't understand is that the Sony CAN get listings via the Pal output, but the 3410a - despite all the diagnostics showing the incoming packets, the DL schedule, etc - DOESN'T get any listings...none since June 12

a VERY frustrating puzzle, because I REALLY like my 3410a...of course, it IS getting the clock via the Pal output, so I CAN use it as a manually set recorder...but that's quite a comedown...

audioxcel

06-24-09, 12:43 AM

I'm in Dallas and OTA only with .21 firmware. My 500 rebooted itself twice Saturday night while I was watching/chasing an in-progress recording. After the second reboot, it lost the grid, the host channel, and the software patches. It was at the base 8.01.71 software. So, I tuned it to my host channel, 11.1, turned it off and hoped for the best. This was about 11:45pm.

I checked it Sunday around noon and it had the 8.05.40 patch, but no grid and no host channel. I left it tuned to 11.1 and turned it off.

I checked it again Sunday night around 10pm. It now had the 8.06.44 patch, but still no grid and no host channel. I left it tuned to 11.1 and turned it off.

By Monday at 10pm when I checked it, it had acquired a grid, a host channel, and the full 8 day lineup.

I was relieved that it recovered without any intervention on my part.

In Portland, OTA only....That's interesting. One of my units locked up Saturday night while I was recording a progarm and watching another from the recorded list. It wouldn't respond to the remote and it wouldn't power down by pushing the hard button on the face. When I plugged it back in it rebooted twice then froze up again. This time I did a reset with the buttons on the front. I lost the clock and TV Guide lost all data. I was freaked out.

The next day it regained the clock and the following day the ads appeared but still had "no data" in the window. Today (Tuesday), I have a complete 8 day TVGOS again except for one channel (FOX) that is showing no listings for most days. I was getting real worried, but now feel better. It seems that the new software will even recover after a reset.

The other unit that I have locked up Sunday while recording but completely recovered after I pulled the plug and plugged it back in. It makes me wonder if the .21 software doesn't have a bug that causes the lock ups because I never had any on either unit until this past weekend.

audioxcel

06-24-09, 12:50 AM

well, not exactly, channel 3 OTA is definitely in my scanned channel list! (I definitely DID rescan after I first joined the Pal output with the antenna signal) But so is cable OTA, which can explain why I MIGHT get the nonexistent cable 3 when I push the "3" button...still doesn't explain the lack of PBS 9.1 listings...which is a point of commonality with the 3410a presently....

and, of course, as I noted what I really can't understand is that the Sony CAN get listings via the Pal output, but the 3410a - despite all the diagnostics showing the incoming packets, the DL schedule, etc - DOESN'T get any listings...none since June 12

a VERY frustrating puzzle, because I REALLY like my 3410a...of course, it IS getting the clock via the Pal output, so I CAN use it as a manually set recorder...but that's quite a comedown...

I had a similar problem that was fixed when I did a "complete" rescan of cable and antenna even though I am only OTA. BTW: A complete rescan takes over an hour.

LimeyGreg

06-24-09, 12:52 AM

videobruce

06-24-09, 08:44 AM

Anyone that claimed to have listings prior to 6/12 loose those listing after 6/12 that didn't have a converted analog host channel on their CATV system??
(OTA digital host, converted back to analog with the TVGOS data present on cable. SCTE-127 if you perfer.)

HoustonPerson

06-24-09, 08:49 AM

Not much to report.

All 100% operational. Very minor pluses and minus from the analogue world.

Occasionally, new data will show up on the info screens – and you can usually tell when it is going to change gears and do something a little different.

Almost every Friday-for at least the last 2 months or more, TVGOS will send the box some new instructions – some you notice some not.

I have seen VBI state and HostSUFlags change and roll through at least a half dozen different values over the last couple of months. The picture from today is a new one I believe for HostSUFlags.

LastDLStart and End mark the digital transition here.

When the LastSrchSt and End get a new date/time stamp, the NumSearch, LstSCause and PrvSCause; will roll up a set. That is some of those "changing gears" I mentioned above.

AFAIK, both Dallas and Houston are 100% and perhaps all of Texas and Louisiana (at least those that I have seen posted?). I have helped a few get their SonyBox operational again; still there are large parts of the country that are having major problems.

Based on my own observations; Force Host and G-Test does not help matters, and IMHO has a strong tendency to mess up the box (perhaps in a very big way). Everything you need for a digital environment is in the .21 release from Sony.

When using “00000” zip code setting, the box should be "off" for 15 to 20 minutes; IMO 5 minutes is not long enough. Then when the box is turned back “on” it “must” automatically take you back to the set up screens for zip code and then you "must" complete all remaining set up screens – if the box did not take you to "set up" then the previous procedure was not completed correctly.

Also, the use of “00000” is not the same as changing to a different adjacent or non-adjacent zip code. Also, in a couple of cases using the “00000” twice was required-never really determined why on that-other than the box was just not ready yet for the first “00000” setting?

ss-stingray

06-24-09, 08:50 AM

I recently did the firmware upgrade on my 500 even though it was working fine except for a few "no listings". I also have a 250 that I did not update that was/is working just fine. I am in Los Angeles and I leave my DVR's on 2.1.

Any other tips???

Greg.

Greg,
Sony says that with the .21 firmware it will take at least 25 days to build a grid. If you lose power or do a reset you must start the day count over. Some have reported that they recovered faster but I believe that they got a grid faster since they were on cable. Leave your dhg off and set to your know host channel. Don't bother doing a force or G-test.

SS-Stingray

WS65711

06-24-09, 09:03 AM

Not much to report.

All 100% operational. Very minor pluses and minus from the analogue world.

Houston...... Didn't you say in a post over the weekend that you were going to try a "TV Guide Reset" ?

drhankz

06-24-09, 09:07 AM

Houston...... Didn't you say in a post over the weekend that you were going to try a "TV Guide Reset" ?

I'm not Mr. Houston

But in the Boston Area - the ONLY thing I have ever
needed to do is the Front Panel Reset - Nothing More.

After the 6/12 switch over - it did take awhile to get
everything rebuilt - Patience Also Helped out ;)

WS65711

06-24-09, 09:24 AM

I'm not Mr. Houston

But in the Boston Area - the ONLY thing I have ever
needed to do is the Front Panel Reset - Nothing More.

After the 6/12 switch over - it did take awhile to get
everything rebuilt - Patience Also Helped out ;)

Understood. But I would like to test the theory that IF you can get a digital host channel in the HostChan field, your unit CAN rebuild a Channel Lineup and acquire Listings. And that if you CANNOT get a digital host channel in the HostChan field, your unit will NOT be able to rebuild a Channel Lineup or acquire Listings.

Some people continue to indicate that they are 100% operational, but without a digital host in the HostChan field. I think it would be a good thing to either prove or disprove that statement. Then people that do not have a HostChan displayed will know whether or not they will be able to recover after a catasrophe.

mabuttra

06-24-09, 09:30 AM

[...]
AFAIK, both Dallas and Houston are 100% and perhaps all of Texas and Louisiana (at least those that I have seen posted?). I have helped a few get their SonyBox operational again; still there are large parts of the country that are having major problems.
[...]

So then is kwg's unit working again? He was the only person on here from the Houston area without a grid. When he reports that his unit is working again, then you can make the 100% claim, although that claim is very suspect, since I believe it would take you weeks, if not months, to get working again if you do a reset.

Despite all the pictures you have posted I have sen nothing in them to indicate that you will have a different result than you did here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16120080#post16120080). I'd re-think doing a reset at this point, until your unit can acquire a host channel in a reasonable amount of time.

Mark

HoustonPerson

06-24-09, 09:46 AM

So then is kwg's unit working again? He was the only person on here from the Houston area without a grid. When he reports that his unit is working again, then you can make the 100% claim, although that claim is very suspect, since I believe it would take you weeks, if not months, to get working again if you do a reset.

Despite all the pictures you have posted I have sen nothing in them to indicate that you will have a different result than you did here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16120080#post16120080). I'd re-think doing a reset at this point, until your unit can acquire a host channel in a reasonable amount of time.

Mark

kwg, has sent me a note last night. TVGOS works in Houston, His unit does not. I suppose he is extremly busy and does not have time for it just now? The fact that it does or does not report Host channel is irrelevant at this point and that could change in the future.

I really do not know what result you are talking about? But listings have been fine for a very long time? Host or No Host LOL. Obviously it has Host or it would not be working?

HoustonPerson

06-24-09, 09:49 AM

Houston...... Didn't you say in a post over the weekend that you were going to try a "TV Guide Reset" ?

I did a "00000" reset about 6/14 or so, because our local CBS TVGOS was dead for 2.5 days after the transition

colofan

06-24-09, 10:27 AM

HoustonPerson

06-24-09, 10:27 AM

I am waiting to hear back from 2 or 3 at this time to see what progress they have made with Full Factory Reset. That is - that you CAN get listings without the so-called HOST being "set" - the key issue for them so far has been getting a "clock"

My unit has not had digital host set since March 20th. On just two occasions when it reverted back to analogue it did have analogue host set; but when the unit - all on its own would go back to digital host the field would go blank. On one of those occasions, the unit did reset itself during the night, to go back to digital and it “cleared” the analogue Host Field.

I think we all know? That a very high percentage of the old analogue field data are no longer relevant in a digital environment.

It may also be true that it could take a very long time (plus 20 days), to get locked in to digital host. This could be the case for those that did not install the .21 well before the transition.

I think many have seen the building and mapping taking place in MySonyBox prior to transition; and that may have been the real reason behind the two major changes from analogue to digital – between April 17 to June 12th-15th. Without those mapping routines, it may take it the 20 days to build from scratch.

For those that are still getting TVGOS via analogue cable, that would be a very strong indication to install the .21 now if you have not done so (if not too late already?); otherwise if/when you become 100% digital it may take the 20 plus days to rebuild.

mabuttra

06-24-09, 10:29 AM

kwg, has sent me a note last night. TVGOS works in Houston, His unit does not.

Oh yeah, I'm sure it is only his unit :rolleyes:.

I really do not know what result you are talking about?

Remember the month of March when your unit was a brick? Does this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=137819&d=1237996640) picture ring a bell?

Mark

avJohnny

06-24-09, 10:31 AM

You should do the .21 firmware. After leave the dhg tunned to your known host channel in the off condition. Don't bother doing the vbi test with the .21 firmware. The atsc page is part of the .21 update. If your OTA then it may take up to 30 days to get a grid. I was never able to get a grid but gave up after 20 days. That was before June . You can use the dhg like a vcr by doing manual recordings untill you get the grid back. If for any reason you loose power than you will start counting days over untill you get the grid. I hope this helps. Good luck

Thanks. So can I not watch any shows on other channels for 30 days until I start getting a grid? Or do I just make sure I tune to CBS whenever I turn the unit off?

HoustonPerson

06-24-09, 10:35 AM

Oh yeah, I'm sure it is only his unit :rolleyes:.

Remember the month of March when your unit was a brick? Does this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=137819&d=1237996640) picture ring a bell?

Mark

yes I had looked at those pictures and the preceeding pictures of 6976 through 6994 AND 7041 through 7050.

It became a brick best I can tell and recall because PBS analogue died; guess I miss your point?

I do not know how many DHGs KWG has? And yes it could be only his unit? And your point is?

mabuttra

06-24-09, 10:49 AM

yes I had looked at those pictures and the preceeding pictures of 6976 through 6994 AND 7041 through 7050.

It became a brick best I can tell and recall because PBS analogue died; guess I miss your point?

I do not know how many DHGs KWG has?

PBS analog was shut off, and your unit had to rely on your digital CBS station to provide the data. CBS was sending out data then, as you mentioned in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16097334#post16097334). Yet your DVR did not get a grid until the analog was turned back on. The inability for your DVR to acquire a host channel indicates to me that little has changed with your digital CBS station's data.

Mark

LimeyGreg

06-24-09, 11:04 AM

Greg,
Sony says that with the .21 firmware it will take at least 25 days to build a grid. If you lose power or do a reset you must start the day count over. Some have reported that they recovered faster but I believe that they got a grid faster since they were on cable. Leave your dhg off and set to your know host channel. Don't bother doing a force or G-test.

SS-Stingray
Thanks Stingray, I know that's my only option, it's just annoying that I've had this box since Nov 2001 when I joined AVS and it's worked great on OTA in Los Angeles - it was working fine before but I thought I'd upgrade a perfectly good and working unit - and now it's giving me grief.

I would still like to know the answer to the timezone offset data, I assume that it comes from the two zipcode info sets that are sent infrequently maybe only once a month !!!!

kwg

06-24-09, 11:09 AM

I'll just "briefly" summarize what I have done since last week.

I tried using my 6hr backup videotape of PBS Analog Ch8. Checking the 753 diag showed good TVGOS data. A grid / listing was not re-established.

I then hooked up my TR-40 DTVPal as Ch4 on cable input. I did not document the procedure but I was finally able to get a grid / listing. I gave it a few hours as a "kickstart" and then disconnected it after getting the grid back. A head scratcher as to what the difference is...

On Sunday 6/21/2009 I did a multi 9012 reset procedure.
http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html#Section1216
1) "Reset User Configuration"
2) "TV Guide" "Reset to Factory Defaults"
3) "Restore Factory Default"

Overkill, I know.

4) Installed 1.2.21. (I should have first seen what 1.2.05 does, eliminating 1.2.21 as a problem child.)

It currently has a good clock and ads.
It currently does not have a grid+listings.

I will give it 5 days since that is what WS65711 found. After which I will decide when/if I use my TR-40 DTVPal.

mabuttra

06-24-09, 11:29 AM

I'll just "briefly" summarize what I have done since last week.

Thanks for the update. I'm glad you have 2 backup plans, just in case. I believe the tape should work, but you may have to play it more than once (ss-stingray would know). I think the DTVpal is a much better alternative anyway (seems less complicated, than playing a 6 hour tape over and over again). Keep us posted with any "good news" changes.

Mark

kwg

06-24-09, 11:31 AM

HoustonPerson,

> I do not know how many DHGs KWG has?

There are 2 DVR500s in the house. Same antenna. Different rooms.

Both were upgraded to 1.2.21 at the same time.

One unit never lost its grid so it is no different than yours.

> And yes it could be only his unit?

Could be. But I have not seen any other reports from Houston,Tx.
At least none that lost a grid.

mabuttra,

> HoustonPerson
> PBS analog was shut off, and your unit had to rely on your digital CBS
> station to provide the data. CBS was sending out data then, as you
> mentioned in this post. Yet your DVR did not get a grid until the analog
> was turned back on. The inability for your DVR to acquire a host channel
> indicates to me that little has changed with your digital CBS station's
> data.

Well, not exactly. 1.2.21 was not released back then.

When this event occurred, I had no problem transitioning my 1.2.05 boxes to Digital CBS Ch11. Of course I used the 'force host' procedure. HoustonPerson does not believe in 'force host' and his box was in limbo during that period. Could 'force host' have worked? We'll never know...

Whether or not CBS Ch11's current TVGOS data has a problem is still unknown IMO.

mabuttra

06-24-09, 11:47 AM

Thanks Stingray, I know that's my only option, it's just annoying that I've had this box since Nov 2001 when I joined AVS and it's worked great on OTA in Los Angeles - it was working fine before but I thought I'd upgrade a perfectly good and working unit - and now it's giving me grief.

I would still like to know the answer to the timezone offset data, I assume that it comes from the two zipcode info sets that are sent infrequently maybe only once a month !!!!

The DHG gets its timezone information from a timezone packet. Your DHG must receive a timezone packet that matches your zip code, it then uses the information in the timezone packet to fill in the clocks1 screen, at which point it will set your front panel clock to the correct time. Unless you receive a timezone packet, you won't have a correct front panel clock.

Things I don't know...

1) Does a single timezone packet cover a range of zip codes (this seems likely)?

or

2) Does each zip code across the country receive a different time zone packet (seems less likely)?.

If the answer is 2, then changing zip codes in an area that isn't getting timezone packets could cause the DHG to receive a timezone packet. Doing it this way seems very wasteful (bandwidth wise) though since many zipcodes would have identical timezone information. Why send multiple packets to all the different zip codes in an area.

Mark

Michael1138

06-24-09, 11:56 AM

In Portland, OTA only....That's interesting. One of my units locked up Saturday night while I was recording a progarm and watching another from the recorded list. It wouldn't respond to the remote and it wouldn't power down by pushing the hard button on the face. When I plugged it back in it rebooted twice then froze up again. This time I did a reset with the buttons on the front. I lost the clock and TV Guide lost all data. I was freaked out.

The next day it regained the clock and the following day the ads appeared but still had "no data" in the window. Today (Tuesday), I have a complete 8 day TVGOS again except for one channel (FOX) that is showing no listings for most days. I was getting real worried, but now feel better. It seems that the new software will even recover after a reset.

The other unit that I have locked up Sunday while recording but completely recovered after I pulled the plug and plugged it back in. It makes me wonder if the .21 software doesn't have a bug that causes the lock ups because I never had any on either unit until this past weekend.

I had never had a lockup on my three units either until last December or early January. I performed the reset procedure in February as described on SpiffSpace's site, which did fix them, if ever so shortly. I did it again in May while I still had an analog host, but it had no effect.

I suspect it's one of two things: the TVGOS data is somehow confusing the units or it's just age. I know several people here have said the only way to truly remedy it is to perform a Full Factory Reset. I'm not ready to do that just yet as I don't want to lose my recordings.

It'll be interesting to see how my 500 behaves, as it just reset itself this past weekend and had to rebuild the grid and re-download the patches. Unfortunately, I'm not doing a lot of prime-time recording right now, so I may not know until the Fall.

Also, FWIW, it seemed that the units would consistently lockup during 7pm-10pm, but never after that, and only if I was recording while trying to watch another recorded show or chasing the in-progress recording.

HoustonPerson

06-24-09, 12:12 PM

bardot861

06-24-09, 12:22 PM

Hi All:
Thanks to Mark Buttra and Possum Girl for previous postings related to my inquiries.
In Northeast - OTA only. As yet not upgraded to .21. Was getting grid data from WBZ (4.0) and all was well. After 6/12 - each day resulted in (approx) a day less of listings (no data, etc.). In response to suggestions from Forum - performed a G Test (but without clearing out orig zip code) - with the tuned channel prior to test being WBZ digital 4.1. First received Fail on VBI content - but on the few subsequent running of same test - recieve pass on first three categories, with latter two marked 'fail'.
When I would shut unit down - made a point of tuning to 4.1 then turning off.
All my data has been restored - out to eight full days.
However, I do note that 4.0 is running that instructional loop ad nauseum - where Norm Abrams just walks into people's homes. Could that loop contain the updated VBI stuff - and my timid atttempts (g test) not be whats caused my apparent success? Am I doomed to keep waching Abrams and Kevin O'Connor (while my house falls apart) so that I can keep recording ...Fawlty Towers? Seriously tho - can one tell if their data is coming from digital source?
Reluctant to run upgrade long as appears to be working. Sorry for verbiage.
Regards,
Barry

mabuttra

06-24-09, 12:41 PM

Whether or not CBS Ch11's current TVGOS data has a problem is still unknown IMO.

You are correct, I have based my conclusions on HoustonPerson's data, and his data seems to be incomplete. Your results will tell whether the data is currently working or not in Houston.

Mark

kwg

06-24-09, 12:43 PM

HoustonPerson,

> The offer still stands if you would like me to help.

We tried last week, and did not succeed. Right now I am waiting to see if anything happens without intervention. That is what WS65711 has proven works. Time and patience...

I have a one-time proven "easy" solution that I can fall back on.

I'll make a note of any new ideas you may have, but I don't think anything has come up in the last few days.

And if you ever decide to get adventurous, please let us know your results from 9012 a) "TV Guide" "Reset to Factory Defaults" or b) "Restore Factory Default". You've avoided addressing that challenge from us so far... :)

> Because of the mass confusing on the web site

Without input from all the users here and other avsforums, I'd be lost. I just wish that some of the technically-minded users that dropped off were still around. There are only a few left like mabuttra and WS65711.

Possumgirl

06-24-09, 12:46 PM

I recently did the firmware upgrade on my 500 even though it was working fine except for a few "no listings". I also have a 250 that I did not update that was/is working just fine. I am in Los Angeles and I leave my DVR's on 2.1.

My 500 updated the TVGOS to the latest level and is showing the ads but it refuses to download a grid or any listings, the problem seems to be that it is not setting the clocks1 info. The SectionSystem-Stats are the same on both machines and both show 90065 zip code.

While the 250 shows time zone element, version and offset as well as next DST transition the 500 shows all zeroes. I think that without this info the unit will never load a grid or guide listings.

My question is this - are the zipcode timezone elements and offset numbers resident in the DVR firmware, the TVGOS software or are they downloaded during a listing dump?

If they are in the DVR firmware, which I just updated and seem to be missing then my 500 will never recover. I'd thought about using my 250 to see if changing the zip code would result in an immediate change in the offset number but at this point I'm hesitant to do this in case it too takes a dump.

I tried the 00000 zip code trick with no luck, I even did a user reset, rescan etc but need to leave it overnight to see if the grid shows up. I put my zip code in and got clock back but it is showing UCT/GMT as it doesn't have any offset number to use to adjust the clock.

Any other tips???

Greg.

I assume that the 500 didn't lose, or reacquired, the FW patches so that it's at 08.06.44? Your GMT has [3] after the time indicating it is seeing the digital flow? While tuned to 2-1 does the Section ATSC-ATSC Slicer screen show activity in the CurrChan column? If the answer to all those is yes, then it probably is a matter of patience waiting to receive a time zone packet and even then we don't know (yet) how long it might take to get a channel lineup back. My 500 has received only 4 time zone packets since analog went away. My 250 has gotten only one.

The way things are supposed to work is that once a zip code packet matches your zip, a time zone packet should be received and the identifier for your lineup stored. Back in the analog days, that happened pretty quickly. For some folks here, it's working pretty well on digital too. But not for all of us. :eek:

Keep us posted. Since I'm in L.A. too I'm very interested in your unit's progress.

kwg

06-24-09, 12:58 PM

Oh, and one tidbit I forgot to post.

My host channel is blank. :)

How I forgot to mention that, I don't know...

And I have NOT DONE any of the following since performing my Sunday "RESETs":
9012 "TV Guide" "G* Factory Test"
963214785 VBI Search Current Channel
987789987 VBI Quick Search Cur Channel

We'll call it factory fresh.

Possumgirl

06-24-09, 01:00 PM

Possumgirl

06-24-09, 01:08 PM

mabuttra

06-24-09, 01:28 PM

BTW, I do not agree that G* test or Force Host can create problems. Force host seems to be completely useless however. The G* test can be run on ANY channel if you need to get the digital flow restarted for some reason. Other than that it serves no purpose and it may be the units would eventually restart the flow on their own after a reset. I didn't have that much patience. :)

I agree completely. I once touted the "force host" procedure as "bad", but that was because, after getting my DHG running again using that procedure, it didn't work right. I later discovered that, after getting the DHG running again without the "force host" procedure, it still didn't work right. So I changed my stance from "it's bad" to "it's unnecessary" :).

Mark

todd95008

06-24-09, 01:32 PM

well, not exactly, channel 3 OTA is definitely in my scanned channel list! (I definitely DID rescan after I first joined the Pal output with the antenna signal) But so is cable OTA, which can explain why I MIGHT get the nonexistent cable 3 when I push the "3" button...still doesn't explain the lack of PBS 9.1 listings...

Just a note:
I lost my 9.1 OTA listings back when analog PBS started back up a few months back. Since I was also on Comcast I switched that over to cable 9.1 and the listing was filled in the next day. I also ran into this issue about 2 years ago and at that time I found there were 2 KQEDDT OTA listings and only one of them worked. I don't think the second entry is still there but you can use the old analog 9 listing mapped to 9.1 as a temp fix.

I would get rid of the Tvpal connection to the Sony !!

My unit still has full listings (from 5.1 CBS) and no host channel.

mabuttra

06-24-09, 01:41 PM

Right now I am waiting to see if anything happens without intervention. That is what WS65711 has proven works. Time and patience...

It is just that simple. The data is either there, or it isn't. Monkeying around in the menus can tell you the status of things, but there is nothing the end user can do to make non-existent data suddenly appear. The less intervention the better.

Without input from all the users here and other avsforums, I'd be lost. I just wish that some of the technically-minded users that dropped off were still around. There are only a few left like mabuttra and WS65711.

Thanks for the complement. I should point out, that I have also been referred to as a "moron", and a person with "faulty logic" on this board, so keep that in mind also. ;)

Mark

HoustonPerson

06-24-09, 05:43 PM

HoustonPerson,

> The offer still stands if you would like me to help.

We tried last week, and did not succeed. Right now I am waiting to see if anything happens without intervention. That is what WS65711 has proven works. Time and patience...

I have a one-time proven "easy" solution that I can fall back on.

.

I re-read your post; still does not look like you completed the things I suggusted. So thats ok.

I did a TVGOS reset to factory defaults on 6/14/09 via "00000" (9012 was not required-so no reason to use it for me), had to because of the issues KHOU had; plus that equaled "move" based on TVGOS speak and was therefore "required" both for the RF change and the fact their TVGOS was dead for almost 3 days.

LimeyGreg

06-24-09, 06:13 PM

I assume that the 500 didn't lose, or reacquired, the FW patches so that it's at 08.06.44? Your GMT has [3] after the time indicating it is seeing the digital flow? While tuned to 2-1 does the Section ATSC-ATSC Slicer screen show activity in the CurrChan column? If the answer to all those is yes, then it probably is a matter of patience waiting to receive a time zone packet and even then we don't know (yet) how long it might take to get a channel lineup back. My 500 has received only 4 time zone packets since analog went away. My 250 has gotten only one.

The way things are supposed to work is that once a zip code packet matches your zip, a time zone packet should be received and the identifier for your lineup stored. Back in the analog days, that happened pretty quickly. For some folks here, it's working pretty well on digital too. But not for all of us. :eek:

Keep us posted. Since I'm in L.A. too I'm very interested in your unit's progress.

Possumgirl, I don't recall if it lost it's .44 update after the firmware upgrade, I thought it reset itself but then again I might have done a soft reset, I also did a TVGUIDE reset, but it did receive the two TVGOS upgrades without a problem and it displays the ads properly. It certainly appears to be receiving data but no guide is displaying yet - I'm used to the clock and guide comming back quickly based on the "good old ANALOGUE days" here in L.A. so I think maybe the ZIPCODE and TIMEZONE info are slow in comming.

The clock re-apears quickly but it is GMT and without the -28800 offset my guess is your explanation is correct and it has yet to receive the zipcode data that it needs to compare with my actual zipcode so it can then set the offset, at which time I assume the clock time will be correct and I will get the grid and then it will proceed to populate it.

So it now becomes a question of how often does TVGOS send the zipcode data? One would hope that they send it every day but maybe they only send one TimeZone per day which would mean it could take 6 days if I just missed my timezone, if it takes up to 24 days according to Sony then they are sending less than a time zone at a time. At one point I did have an offset but it was some ridiculous number like -172543600, that might have prompted me to do the TVGUIDE reset that has left me with no timezone, zipcode and clock info.

I will report back when I get Clock and Guide.
Thanks for your info.

avnstf

06-24-09, 06:28 PM

I would get rid of the Tvpal connection to the Sony !!

My unit still has full listings (from 5.1 CBS) and no host channel.
I intend to get rid of it, as soon as I see listings from it AT THE SAME TIME as I see NO listings from the Pal output for my 3410a...just want to do it again before I TRY to tell Microvision about it...somethng is very screwy with the 3410a, and my Sony is essentially my "control" unit...

In any case, my Sony appeared earlier to run perfectly well using the Pal as an analog input (host channel = 3)...we'll see if it switches over as fast as it did before..

I anticipate that by next week, I'll have it back to NO Pal input, getting digital listings from 5.1, with a blank host channel (whatever that means). At least I know that if I ever lose my clock/lineup, I can get them back via the Pal...

WS65711

06-24-09, 07:30 PM

....................
I will give it 5 days since that is what WS65711 found. After which I will decide when/if I use my TR-40 DTVPal.

Actually, after the first "TV Guide Reset to Factory Defaults" I had the Channel Lineup within 48 hours. I got Listings the following day. THIS reset did not cause me to lose the 8.06.44 TVGOS software patch. This unit picked up the host via OTA, even though I have an unreliable antenna signal on this particular unit. This unit is not connected to my main antenna in the attic. This unit is also connected to QAM cable. :D

After the second (accidental) "TV Guide Reset to Factory Defaults" it took longer, a total of 4 days (approx 96 hours). I got Listings the following day (which is today). THIS reset did cause me to lose the 8.06.44 TVGOS software patch, and it took me two days to recover that patch. Again it picked up the host via OTA. :D

My co-worker performed the same Reset on the same day (Tuesday 6/16) as I performed the first reset I mentioned above. He did not lose the 8.06.44 patch. He got a Grid and Listings on Monday 6/22, a total of 6 days. He is OTA only, and currently has a poor quality antenna signal. :D

WS65711

06-24-09, 07:46 PM

Without input from all the users here and other avsforums, I'd be lost. I just wish that some of the technically-minded users that dropped off were still around. There are only a few left like mabuttra and WS65711.

Also Frank70 and PossumGirl and others. I personally wish that ImTheOne and WhatHappend would return too, but maybe they moved on to greener pastures?

My only issue with some of what goes on here is that sometimes people get little too eager to claim "100% functionality" when they haven't fully tested their unit (by acquiring a Channel Lineup) post June 12th. This is not fair to others who are still having problems and desperately trying to figure out why. And also, those who have acquired a Grid using a DTVpal or a video tape have not recovered 100%. It's great that they've been able to do this to get the Lineup, and that was going to be my course of action as a last resort. But it's kind of like "Yes, I can walk pretty good. But I need crutches". I only hope that in the near future, no one needs the crutches. :)

WS65711

06-24-09, 07:54 PM

It is just that simple. The data is either there, or it isn't. Monkeying around in the menus can tell you the status of things, but there is nothing the end user can do to make non-existent data suddenly appear. The less intervention the better.

I agree with this 100%. Just turn it on to check for progress. Use the 753 menu to check for HostChan, Timezone Pkts, and LineupPkts. The G*Test is essentially useless anymore, although it was a great tool in the past. I have never ever ever done any "force host" procedure.

Thanks for the complement. I should point out, that I have also been referred to as a "moron", and a person with "faulty logic" on this board, so keep that in mind also. ;)

That was YOU they were talking about??? I always thought it was ME!!! :D :D :D

.

WS65711

06-24-09, 08:07 PM

I did a TVGOS reset to factory defaults on 6/14/09 via "00000" (9012 was not required-so no reason to use it for me), had to because of the issues KHOU had; plus that equaled "move" based on TVGOS speak and was therefore "required" both for the RF change and the fact their TVGOS was dead for almost 3 days.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the "00000" ZipCode trick obliterates your Channel Lineup (like the "TV Guide Reset to Factory Defaults" menu choice does). :confused: :confused: :confused:

PhillyC

06-24-09, 10:00 PM

I have a host channel for the first time since early June. This is digital only with Comcast cablecard. Some things to note:

1) The host channel shows as 1:73-0 instead of the mapped channel 189. The clock channel is (and has been) the same. The actual RF is 73.1.

2) The ATSC Slicer page shows evidence of previous activity in the Host Channel column for the first time ever.

3) The ATSC Slicer page shows activity in the Current Channel column ONLY after running a G*Test first (the same behavior as before). While this is happening, the Host Channel column is NOT updating. Since this activity is new to me, I don't know if this is "normal".

4) The unit reset itself Monday evening for no apparent reason. It did not lose lineup or anything critical, but the various packet count totals were reset to zero. Since then, the packet counts have increased by hundreds or thousands --- except for the elusive (in Chicago) Timezone Packets, of which I have 1 today. (I had previously received 4 since several days before the transition.)

At least I know I can eventually get a host channel to show up. I changed from a suburban zip to my true zip on June 9 or 10. So, although I've had a complete guide all the while, it has taken about 15 days to acquire a host.

mabuttra

06-24-09, 11:57 PM

Also Frank70 and PossumGirl and others. I personally wish that ImTheOne and WhatHappend would return too, but maybe they moved on to greener pastures?

I wouldn't know anything about these DVRs if it hadn't been for everyone that you mentioned. I find myself explaining things, like how timezone packets work, without even realizing that just 6 months ago I didn't know what a timezone packet even was. I have learned about all of this right here on this message board.

Mark

avnstf

06-25-09, 12:05 AM

update on my experiment with having my DTVPal output join into the antenna inputs of both my Sony and my LG3410a (as described above here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16708739#post16708739)):

Since yesterday, my Sony has acquired analog 3 (the Pal output) as host channel, and gotten complete listings (which I also had before I joined the Pal output with the antenna signal, though - as many do - I was getting those listing from CBS digital, but with a blank host channel.

(My 3410a, for which I changed the unit to the 00005 SF-area substitute zip code, lost its lock onto channel 3 as host, but today it regained it and showed acceptance of A and B packets, though it hasn't yet changed the lineup to the fake 3-digit analog channel numbers associated with the fake zip code...we'll see what happened by tomorrow - I'm not optimistic about getting listings, since this unit has gotten NONE since June 12)

ss-stingray

06-25-09, 12:09 AM

Thanks. So can I not watch any shows on other channels for 30 days until I start getting a grid? Or do I just make sure I tune to CBS whenever I turn the unit off?

You can watch what you want. I just recommend leaving the dhg tuned to your host channel when not using it. The new .21 will find the host on it's own but I think it saves time having the dhg scan to find the host. Remember Sony told me that it took them 25 days in their lab to get a grid. In the real it may take more time.I waited 25 days and with no luck so I used a vcr analog tape that was recorded from my host before the digital shut off in Feb. I had to play the tape three times before getting the grid. Since Feb I still have a blank host but get all listings.

SS-Stingray

WS65711

06-25-09, 08:04 AM

videobruce

06-25-09, 08:16 AM

I should point out, that I have also been referred to as a "moron", and a person with "faulty logic" on this boardThe only "morons with faulty logic" are all of us wheo are still trying to get this to work.
That is after the fact of the morons that designed the system in the first place.

Let's see now, place device on host channel,. Device searches a hundred CATV and OTA channels looking for host and doesn't find it. :rolleyes:

How about an entry in the service menu:
"Enter known host channel here..................."

JoeKustra

06-25-09, 08:52 AM

Since joinging this thread I admit there is a lot of information. However maybe we should have some method to identify where you are and if you are using OTA or cable or both. Part of this is TVGOS but also being able to communicate with people who are in my area would allow me to sort through the posts better. Suggestions?

One of the home tabs in the forum is UserCP. You can change "Advanced Member" to something like "Cable only" or "OTA only". This will show on the left side of messages but will not be included in emails from the forum topic. It would be nice if everyone did that. It would be also nice if Rovi got their act together too, but that's an even bigger wish.

ss-stingray

06-25-09, 09:10 AM

[QUOTE=PhillyC;16715717]I have a host channel for the first time since early June. This is digital only with Comcast cablecard. Some things to note:

4) The unit reset itself Monday evening for no apparent reason. It did not lose lineup or anything critical, but the various packet count totals were reset to zero. Since then, the packet counts have increased by hundreds or thousands --- except for the elusive (in Chicago) Timezone Packets, of which I have 1 today. (I had previously received 4 since several days before the transition.)

This could happen by losing power. With summer lighting storms I noticed that a small power drop will cause the atsc slicing page to clear. This will be a problem if your waiting for a grid to build.

SS-Stingray

trumpace

06-25-09, 10:56 AM

I'm in Manhattan, NY and I'm OTA only. I was able to get chanell 2.1 (CBS) as my host chanell several months ago but have not been able to get one since ther digital cutover.

My firmware is 8.05.40 and my VBI chanell is 2.1 but my host chanell shows up blank.

I've tried the VBI Search Current Chanel test on 4 consecutive nights with no solution.
I switch to 2.1 then up to 4.1 for a few seconds then back to 2.1. In order to run the
VBI Search Current Chanell test I have to go to the setup screen then press Down
and then run the VBI Search Current Chanell test.

The next morning I get the TGOS screen but the only program info I get is for 4.1 (NBC).
I also get listings for these chanells:
PAX
Discovery
Univision
National Geographic
CNN
I am unable to receive any of those chanells except Univision.

I get no program info for any of the local stations except NBC 4.1.

My clock is correct and I get the ads in the box on the left.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks in advance,

Larry

Frank70 are you still around?

kwg

06-25-09, 11:59 AM

HoustonPerson,

> still does not look like you completed the things I suggusted.

I'd go thru all the messages from last week line-by-line
but at this point it would be pointless. I completed all
your suggestions. Maybe I didn't report to your liking.

Following what I did on Sun 6/21/2009, we'll start over from
that point in time. As I mentioned, I will make a note of any
new ideas you have.

> I did a TVGOS reset to factory defaults on 6/14/09 via "00000"
> (9012 was not required-so no reason to use it for me)

That's what it boils down to. You did the minimum to get yours
working. That's what I would do...

Setting the zip code to "00000" is NOT anywhere near equivalent
to using 9012 "TV Guide Reset to Factory Defaults".

The mere fact that you will not try a 9012 "TV Guide Reset to
Factory Defaults" tells me you know they are not equivalent.

I also did a 9012 "Restore Factory Default", which does
even more to the DVR / TVGOS, but I don't recommend it to
anyone just as an experiment.

> had to because of the issues KHOU had
> plus that equaled "move" based on TVGOS speak and was
> therefore "required" both for the RF change and the fact
> their TVGOS was dead for almost 3 days.

You can blame KHOU CBS Ch11 all you want and make up stuff, but
maybe it was your faulty DVR. My other DVR didn't require any help... :)

====

WS65711,

Thanks for the summary of restoration timelines.

I haven't decided when I will resort to the DTVPal again.

FWIW, here are my 3 resets:
1) 06/21/09 19:39:30 [9012 "Restore Factory Default"]
2) 06/21/09 22:45:46 [08.05.40]
3) 06/22/09 06:07:45 [08.06.44]

> HoustonPerson
> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the
> "00000" ZipCode trick obliterates your Channel Lineup
> (like the "TV Guide Reset to Factory Defaults" menu choice does).

I don't think he'll ever admit to that...

HoustonPerson

06-25-09, 01:18 PM

kwg. Ok we obviously disagree. Except for the fact you don't want my assistance, that’s fine we me.

To answer your specific issues:

“Setting the zip code to "00000" is NOT anywhere near equivalent
to using 9012 "TV Guide Reset to Factory Defaults".

I never said it was, not even close. If you want to take exactly what I said and turn it around to exactly something else; obviously I cannot stop you.

“You can blame KHOU CBS Ch11 all you want and make up stuff, but
maybe it was your faulty DVR.”

Funny stuff, if you don’t know what you don’t know. And you are correct I cannot solve that problem either.

WS65711

06-25-09, 01:31 PM

I re-read your post; still does not look like you completed the things I suggusted. So thats ok.

I did a TVGOS reset to factory defaults on 6/14/09 via "00000" (9012 was not required-so no reason to use it for me), had to because of the issues KHOU had; plus that equaled "move" based on TVGOS speak and was therefore "required" both for the RF change and the fact their TVGOS was dead for almost 3 days.

kwg. Ok we obviously disagree. Except for the fact you don't want my assistance, that’s fine we me.

To answer your specific issues:

“Setting the zip code to "00000" is NOT anywhere near equivalent
to using 9012 "TV Guide Reset to Factory Defaults".

I never said it was, not even close. If you want to take exactly what I said and turn it around to exactly something else; obviously I cannot stop you.

“You can blame KHOU CBS Ch11 all you want and make up stuff, but
maybe it was your faulty DVR.”

Funny stuff, if you don’t know what you don’t know. And you are correct I cannot solve that problem either.

HoustonPerson, both of the above are straight off of your keyboard. You certainly did imply that they are equivalent. Some of us here know better. But other newer users, or those that haven't been following this thread closely for years, could very easily be confused by your statements. How else can what you said in the top post be interpreted other than "I did a TVGOS Reset to Factory Defaults on 6/14/09 by changing my zipcode to '00000' and back" ??? :)

HoustonPerson

06-25-09, 02:38 PM

WS65711

Not only did I explain "exactly" what I did – but I went further to explain "exactly" why I did it. If someone wants to imply something else, they can do so.

JoeKustra

06-25-09, 04:03 PM

Even Microsoft publishes changes and their effects monthly. It would be nice if Rovi/MV would put on a web site when they are going to be testing or enhancing their data feeds and to what markets/when. It would go a long way to stop speculation about problems and why they are affecting some but not all. Maybe I can ask for world peace next.

AtlantisMichael

06-25-09, 05:16 PM

Well the host station is showing again, RF 19. Still with the old firmware. Very soon, when I have time to take pictures of the screens, I will do a full reset. What screens should I be documenting for this?
Michael

LimeyGreg

06-25-09, 05:22 PM

The DHG gets its timezone information from a timezone packet. Your DHG must receive a timezone packet that matches your zip code, it then uses the information in the timezone packet to fill in the clocks1 screen, at which point it will set your front panel clock to the correct time. Unless you receive a timezone packet, you won't have a correct front panel clock.
Mark

Thanks Mark,

It seems rather strange that TimeZonePkts are few, on my 250 that does not have the F/W upgrade I have 14243 ZCPkts and 373 TZPkts so that is about 1 TZP to 28 ZCP's. Since I upgraded my 500 to the new F/W I have received 550 ZCPkts but 0 TCPkts, by all accounts I should have had 19 TCPkts so is this information missing from the new digital stream? I will check my 250 to see if the TCPkts are incrementing, if not then something is wrong with the data stream, if it is increasing then there is something wrong with the new F/W.

Possumgirl, do you show any increments in the TCPkts?

I would have thought that the TC/ZC information would be d/l'd much quicker than the old analogue VBI as in the recent past when LA was messing with the digital stream and several days would go by without the guide filling it would suddenly populate the full grid and not just days 1, 7 & 8 as used to do when it was analogue indicating a much higher throughput of data.

One other issue I discovered today was that my 250 was left on 5.1 last night, normally I leave it on CBS 2.1. I don't know if it was manually turned off or if "auto-off" turned it off but I had no listings for day 8 this morning - it seems that with digital only and no Host Channel in the 753 menu the machine won't download any guide unless it's actually left on the host channel overnight. Anybody else experiencing this in the L.A. area, or any other area for that matter?

I wonder if they changed anything within the digital stream since the cut over, it seems logical to assume that the same data stream is supplied by Macrovision to ALL the broadcast companies and so any problems with the information from the originator should be nation wide and not localized. The only issue that would crop up locally would be if the feed to the station becomes corrupted or they start messing with it, which is more likley to happen with cable companies not OTA broadcast stations.

Greg.

Possumgirl

06-25-09, 07:44 PM

Possumgirl, do you show any increments in the TCPkts?

One other issue I discovered today was that my 250 was left on 5.1 last night, normally I leave it on CBS 2.1. I don't know if it was manually turned off or if "auto-off" turned it off but I had no listings for day 8 this morning - it seems that with digital only and no Host Channel in the 753 menu the machine won't download any guide unless it's actually left on the host channel overnight. Anybody else experiencing this in the L.A. area, or any other area for that matter?

My 500 received 2 timezone packets sometime in the afternoon of 6/14, then it got one early AM on 6/20 and another that afternoon. Total of four since analog shutdown. My 250 finally received one TZ packet mid-morning 6/20. That has been it.

Neither of my units have a host channel displayed, but they both receive day 8 listings regardless of what channel they were tuned to when turned off. In fact, I deliberately have been leaving them on something other than 2-1 to test that.

J__Chris

06-26-09, 12:46 AM

Possumgirl, I think that one of the most frustrating thing about these boxes is that it you cannot duplicate results, and from reading this page, even among units in the same house. I didn't update the firmware until a couple of days post transition and that was precipitated by my box starting to freeze up. Except for a few long pauses, no more problems. I have seen few TZ packets here in LA also, I have never had more than 7 days of listing.......

WS65711

06-26-09, 08:47 AM

I noticed last night that one (of my 3) HDD500's has lost it's digital HostChan. This unit is not the unit that I have been doing testing with. We did have a heavy thunderstorm roll though our area on Tuesday afternoon causing a slight power blip, so maybe that was the cause but I can't be sure. The other two units still have their digital host channel displayed in the HostChan field. It seems that these DVR's operate perfectly fine without the HostChan being displayed, except for when you need to acquire a Channel Lineup. Since this unit did not lose it Lineup or Listings, I guess I won't be concerned that the HostChan has disappeared. But I will check for it daily, and edit this post if/when it reappears. :)

PhillyC

06-26-09, 09:58 AM

My 500 received 2 timezone packets sometime in the afternoon of 6/14, then it got one early AM on 6/20 and another that afternoon.

TWO timezone packets in one day?!? That an avalanche compared to what I get --- although our total over several weeks is about the same.

LimeyGreg

06-26-09, 10:55 AM

My 500 received 2 timezone packets sometime in the afternoon of 6/14, then it got one early AM on 6/20 and another that afternoon. Total of four since analog shutdown. My 250 finally received one TZ packet mid-morning 6/20. That has been it.

Neither of my units have a host channel displayed, but they both receive day 8 listings regardless of what channel they were tuned to when turned off. In fact, I deliberately have been leaving them on something other than 2-1 to test that.
I checked my 250 last night and this morning and see no increase in TimeCodePkts, it's still at 373, and there are still ZERO TCPkts on my 500. There are oodles more ZipCodePkts on both machines.

I did the 00000 zip code reset on my 500 last night and after 15 minutes went thru the guide set up and set my zip to 92700 instead of 90065 (on the very remote offchance my zip code was missing from the list) but it didn't make any difference - it still has ZERO TimeCodePkts.

It is my suspicion that the TCPkts are missing - does anyone have a contact at CBS in Los Angeles that may be able to help? I placed a call to TVGOS (now apparently seperated from Macrovision) but have not had a call back. Could somebody else in an east coast market please monitor the TimeCodePkt rate and let me know how many you receive on a daily basis?

The issue of my 250 missing guide for day 8 when it was left on ch 5.1 overnight is strange as last night it was left on 9.1 but the guide updated. This needs more investigation, but when I have other users changing channels after I go to bed it's tough to figure out what state they left the machine when they went to bed.

My advice to anybody in S.Cal that uses Mount Wilson transmitters that are thinking of upgrading to the new firmware would be to think about it before they do as they may well end up with no guide just as I did.

By the way Possumgirl, where do you find the info that tells you when you receive a TCPkt?

LimeyGreg

06-26-09, 11:09 AM

The only "morons with faulty logic" are all of us wheo are still trying to get this to work.
That is after the fact of the morons that designed the system in the first place.

Let's see now, place device on host channel,. Device searches a hundred CATV and OTA channels looking for host and doesn't find it. :rolleyes:

How about an entry in the service menu:
"Enter known host channel here..................."
Yes, and while they're at it how about a place to set your timezone????

LimeyGreg

06-26-09, 11:12 AM

TWO timezone packets in one day?!? That an avalanche compared to what I get --- although our total over several weeks is about the same.
This could be the reason for the quote I read that said "it can take up to 25 days to get a guide", maybe they only send ONE TCPkt/month!!!!!!!!!

mabuttra

06-26-09, 11:30 AM

[...]
My advice to anybody in S.Cal that uses Mount Wilson transmitters that are thinking of upgrading to the new firmware would be to think about it before they do as they may well end up with no guide just as I did.

From your June 23 post...

I recently did the firmware upgrade on my 500 even though it was working fine except for a few "no listings". I also have a 250 that I did not update that was/is working just fine. I am in Los Angeles and I leave my DVR's on 2.1.

My 500 updated the TVGOS to the latest level and is showing the ads but it refuses to download a grid or any listings, the problem seems to be that it is not setting the clocks1 info. The SectionSystem-Stats are the same on both machines and both show 90065 zip code.

Are you saying that your 500 was working fine, and when you upgraded to the latet firmware your grid vanished on its own (no resets by you)? If so you are the first person who has reported this happening. If you did a reset which cleared your grid, then it has nothing to do with the new firmware. The same thing would happen if you reset your 250 with the old firmware. I want to be clear on this, because you are suggesting that your unit stopped working because of the firmware upgrade, and not a result of a reset done by you (later in that message you mentioned doing a "user reset").

Mark

drm2295

06-26-09, 01:29 PM

I was having the lockup problem when recording. I was getting ready to do the procedure on Spiffspace to remedy the problem when my local host channel turned off the TVGOS data. I called them and they said they had to turn it off because it was corrupting their broadcast stream. They ordered a new TVGOS box, and now my 500 is working perfectly. I can record and watch a previous recording at the same time now. I think my host channel was sending corrupt data. Another symptom my 500 had was that the clock would sometimes be right and other times be 4 or 5 minutes slow. It would alternate like this throughout the day while turned off. I could always force the clock to the correct time by doing the G test. Then I would schedule the recording I wanted and turn off the dvr before that recording started. Before my local CBS station replaced their TVGOS box, that was the only way for me to record without locking up.
I agree with those of you who have said just because you're getting data (my listings were fine) doesn't mean you're getting good data. Bad data can make you believe your dvr is to blame. But how can you tell if your data is corrupt? And if you believe it is, how do you get the engineers at your local CBS station to do something about it?

HoustonPerson

06-26-09, 03:55 PM

FWIW Department – Make your own interpretations.

Pic 7273: This was new today, and I assume most have seen it. The company does seem to have some interesting products.

Pic 7274 and 7275: Generally it appears that Houston receives about 4-6 clock sets per day – you can compare the GMT times as well as the date/time stamps on the clock set field. On a particular box I am assisting on in another major city – it has taken just over 3 days to get 7 clock sets. Clock sets on my box are coming in about 300 to 400% faster. Generally, the HostSUFlags has been changing bout 3 to 4 times per day (not in this group of pictures). Others seem to get almost no HostSUFlag changes? Typically, it appears TimeZonePkts are about 3 times that of the number of Clock Sets. NumSearch actually went down from yesterday. Changes to NumSearch and PrvSCause, seem to create a new Date/Time stamp for LastSrchSt (which was yesterday 6/25)

Pic 7276: INS updates constantly, sometimes version will change. GO date/time stamp was (no reason to speculate here); while the Date/Time has remained the same 6/9/09 the version number changes constantly (at least once a day, perhaps more).

Pic 7277 and 7280: These were taken just a few seconds apart. In this specific instant, ShowPkts was “slow zooming” (increasing number at a moderate speed). This was completing a few of the missing Day 8 “Shows”. Usually, Day 8 is completed by 1PM (about 12 hours late from traditional analogue standards).

audioxcel

06-26-09, 03:56 PM

I had never had a lockup on my three units either until last December or early January. I performed the reset procedure in February as described on SpiffSpace's site, which did fix them, if ever so shortly. I did it again in May while I still had an analog host, but it had no effect.

I suspect it's one of two things: the TVGOS data is somehow confusing the units or it's just age. I know several people here have said the only way to truly remedy it is to perform a Full Factory Reset. I'm not ready to do that just yet as I don't want to lose my recordings.

It'll be interesting to see how my 500 behaves, as it just reset itself this past weekend and had to rebuild the grid and re-download the patches. Unfortunately, I'm not doing a lot of prime-time recording right now, so I may not know until the Fall.

Also, FWIW, it seemed that the units would consistently lockup during 7pm-10pm, but never after that, and only if I was recording while trying to watch another recorded show or chasing the in-progress recording.

Yeah, pretty much the same here. I am going to try to download my fav recordings to DVD before I try to watch a program while it is being recorded or watching a stored program while recording again . As you said, there isn't a lot to record now anyway.

Both units have at least regained full TVGOS functionality. However, the one that I did the TVGOS reset on by using the front panel buttons took 4 days to return to "full" functionality. It went to "no data" in the TVGOS window. The one that I did not do this reset on was fine the next day.

I haven't had any lock-ups since. I am hoping it was bad data from TVGOS that caused this because that would be something that will likely be fixed. It is probably a much better alternative to a bug in the .21 patch.

I have read that people with the Dish DTV Pal (or whatever their OTA DVR is now called) have had similar lock-up problems and they seemed to be attributed to the DVR's software rather than TVGOS data but that could have been a wrong assumption.

HoustonPerson

06-26-09, 03:57 PM

remaining pics

LimeyGreg

06-26-09, 04:09 PM

From your June 23 post...

Are you saying that your 500 was working fine, and when you upgraded to the latet firmware your grid vanished on its own (no resets by you)? If so you are the first person who has reported this happening. If you did a reset which cleared your grid, then it has nothing to do with the new firmware. The same thing would happen if you reset your 250 with the old firmware. I want to be clear on this, because you are suggesting that your unit stopped working because of the firmware upgrade, and not a result of a reset done by you (later in that message you mentioned doing a "user reset").

Mark

Mark, with all that I have tried I can't say with certanty that after the F/W upgrade I had grid and listings as it's possible I also did a front panel soft reset, that is why I urge caution when upgrading in the Los Angeles area.

If you can be sure that after the F/W is installed the grid and listings will still be there and the timezone offset doesn't end up being -173022659 as it was on my machine, and also apparently on another users machine who is posting on the "spiffspace" board then go ahead - but my thought would be to leave the unit in it's old configuration until you are forced to do a F/W upgrade due to reversion back to the original TVGOS analogue software.

I have tried so many things to get the guide back without sucess that it becomes difficult to remember everthing done and in what order they were done. None of the methods of recovery have worked so far and the process is not made any faster by having to wait overnight to see if it worked. I've tried soft reset (warm boot), power cycling, 00000 zip code and different zip code, Guide Reset to Default - the only thing I haven't tried is "reset to factory default" as I don't want to loose my recordings.

What I do know is that my non-upgraded 250 has the 0.44 software, receives and displays ads and has a full guide while my upgraded 500 has the 0.44 software, receives and displays the ads but has NO guide. The other thing I do know is that NEITHER of my machines is reciving ANY TimeCodePackets and they are both on the same MATV system that has been working just fine for as long as I have owned these DVR's.

I don't think there is a problem with the F/W upgrade, in fact it went smoothly and the sofware upgrades dowloaded in short order. If the F/W can be loaded without any form of reset everything should be fine, if on the other hand your machine experiences a reset of the ZipCode, TimeZone and Offset information all bets are off. If I gave the impression that the upgrade F/W has a problem then I appologise.

I don't know what has changed in the data stream since going to digital because getting full guide in the analogue days didn't take this long, even after a reset. I think the TimeZone packets were sent much more frequently, using the stats on my analogue unit it came out to 1 TCP for every 28 ZCP's and once your offset was generated in Clocks1 the machine d/l's the guide quickly. I assume for most people when they upgraded the F/W they didn't loose this offset so the guide was populated, for some they may have lost the offset but get TimeCodePkts that sets the offset - unfortunately for me there have been ZERO TCPkts here in Los Angeles that either of my machines have seen.

Mark, if you are OTA could you check your ZipCode and TimeZone packets for me and tell me if they are incrementing and how many per day you get? I would apprecite it if I could get some extra input. Of course, the only real way to check would be to have someone do a TVGuide Reset and soft reset making sure the offset was cleared to zero and see if that is reset back to it's original value when a TimeCodePkt is received, and how long did they wait for the TCPkt - but then I'd run the possibility of having the same thing to happen to them as I am experiencing and their guide doesn't come back, I wouldn't want that on my conscience.

Greg.

WS65711

06-26-09, 05:31 PM

If you can be sure that after the F/W is installed the grid and listings will still be there and the timezone offset doesn't end up being -173022659 as it was on my machine, and also apparently on another users machine who is posting on the "spiffspace" board then go ahead - but my thought would be to leave the unit in it's old configuration until you are forced to do a F/W upgrade due to reversion back to the original TVGOS analogue software.

I really don't think that the firmware upgrade in itself caused the loss of your grid. I've personally update the firmware on four units, and none lost the grid, listings, or anything else. I would suggest that anyone upgrading the firmware follow the instructions closely however, to help avoid the possible loss of these items.

I have tried so many things to get the guide back without sucess that it becomes difficult to remember everthing done and in what order they were done. None of the methods of recovery have worked so far and the process is not made any faster by having to wait overnight to see if it worked. I've tried soft reset (warm boot), power cycling, 00000 zip code and different zip code, Guide Reset to Default - the only thing I haven't tried is "reset to factory default" as I don't want to loose my recordings.

Unfortunately there is really nothing you can do to force the unit to acquire a HostChan and Grid. If the unit has the V-1.2.21 firmware installed, and an antenna and/or cable line connected, it will acquire the Grid all by itself if the TVGOS data is available, complete, and uncorrupted in your area. The only way to acquire a Grid in the case of incomplete or corrupt TVGOS data is to use the "VCR tape" method, or possibly by using a DTVpal.

What I do know is that my non-upgraded 250 has the 0.44 software, receives and displays ads and has a full guide while my upgraded 500 has the 0.44 software, receives and displays the ads but has NO guide. The other thing I do know is that NEITHER of my machines is reciving ANY TimeCodePackets and they are both on the same MATV system that has been working just fine for as long as I have owned these DVR's.

Is "MATV" the same as Cable TV? There must be something missing in your TVGOS data subsequent to 6/12/09. Can you possibly try to hook up an antenna? At least long enough to acquire the Grid?

I don't know what has changed in the data stream since going to digital because getting full guide in the analogue days didn't take this long, even after a reset. I think the TimeZone packets were sent much more frequently, using the stats on my analogue unit it came out to 1 TCP for every 28 ZCP's and once your offset was generated in Clocks1 the machine d/l's the guide quickly. I assume for most people when they upgraded the F/W they didn't loose this offset so the guide was populated, for some they may have lost the offset but get TimeCodePkts that sets the offset - unfortunately for me there have been ZERO TCPkts here in Los Angeles that either of my machines have seen.

Analogue ??? ......... Did you ever live in Houston? :D

Mark, if you are OTA could you check your ZipCode and TimeZone packets for me and tell me if they are incrementing and how many per day you get? I would apprecite it if I could get some extra input. Of course, the only real way to check would be to have someone do a TVGuide Reset and soft reset making sure the offset was cleared to zero and see if that is reset back to it's original value when a TimeCodePkt is received, and how long did they wait for the TCPkt - but then I'd run the possibility of having the same thing to happen to them as I am experiencing and their guide doesn't come back, I wouldn't want that on my conscience.

I find that my ZipcodePkts and TimezonePkt counts vary greatly from day to day. Sometimes they increase by only 5 or so, and other days it might be 20 or 25. I don't have any idea where the differences originate.
I have done both the "Restore to Factory Defaults" and the "TV Guide Reset to Factory Defaults" several times on my units. I'm not sure offhand where the TCPkt you refer to is, but I have several pictures taken during the recovery process in the post linked below...........

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16678751&postcount=17694

mabuttra

06-26-09, 11:14 PM

Mark, if you are OTA could you check your ZipCode and TimeZone packets for me and tell me if they are incrementing and how many per day you get? I would apprecite it if I could get some extra input. Of course, the only real way to check would be to have someone do a TVGuide Reset and soft reset making sure the offset was cleared to zero and see if that is reset back to it's original value when a TimeCodePkt is received, and how long did they wait for the TCPkt - but then I'd run the possibility of having the same thing to happen to them as I am experiencing and their guide doesn't come back, I wouldn't want that on my conscience.

I get one ZipcodePkt every 30 seconds. I can almost set my watch by it. It has been this way for months. That would make it about 2880 a day.

I only get about 1 TimezonePkt hit a day (I didn't get any today). This is much less frequent than others have reported here, but it is good enough.

I believe (but I may be wrong) that the DHG increments the ZipcodePkt count for each zip code that comes in (whether it matches my zip code or not). However, the TimezonePkts only increment when one is received that matches my zip code. This would explain why there is a huge difference between the two packet counts. There is no doubt that the setting of the front panel clock coincides with the reception of a TimezonePkt.

Unfortunately, besides TimezonePkts, there are other packets that need to come in before you will get your grid back. After your unit gets a TimezonePkt, it will set your front panel clock, but then it must receive LineupPkts (and possibly other unknown pieces of data), to get your grid back. I got the impression from some of your other posts that, because of all the TimezonePkt talk, you may have thought that was all you needed to get your grid back. The good news is that your LineupPkts may not have the same issue as the TimezonePkts, and it might not take long to get those after your clock sets. I don't remember whether LineupPkts increment if you haven't received a TimezonePkt. You might want to keep track to see if those are incrementing also. I get about 50 LineupPkts per day.

Mark

mabuttra

06-26-09, 11:22 PM

Alan58

06-27-09, 07:58 AM

mabuttra

06-27-09, 09:29 AM

Downloaded the new firmware on Tuesday. Rescanned my digitals. Received 17 analog stations along with my 15 digitals. I still have no listings. I haven't been to this forum for over a year. I did catch up and didn't read about the issue I am having. My clock is 2hrs and 9mins earlier then my actual time here in Boise. What would cause that? Did a soft reset with same results. Got my last scheduled recording on 6/15, so all was working well until then.

Bad news, according to rabittears (http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php) there are no digital stations in Boise carrying the TVGOS data. You might try contacting both your CBS station, and your PBS station to see if either one has any intentions to do so. The only way your unit can get guide data is for one of your local stations to be sending the data out.

Mark

HDTV Sparky

06-27-09, 11:14 AM

mabuttra

06-27-09, 11:56 AM

Can someone explain this.....
I get TVGOS very reliably. But I have a question or two.

My Sony HDD250 is connected to both raw cable ( no box) and over the air.

Currently, the guide info is carried by two stations .
Baltimore 13.1 (40 miles south of me, but comes in great via antenna) and I've verified on the slicer screen there sending the guide info.
and analog 10 on my local cable system, which is actually 21.1 on my QAM tuner.
The Sony list the host as analog ch.10 and I'm OK with that....But...
I cannot find any guide info on the digital ch 21.1 (QAM), yet it's there on the converted analog version.
Is the problem with no guide info on 21.1 because it's received QAM?

It's just something I've wondered about.

If you are saying that you don't see any activity on the ATSC slicer screen when you tune to cable channel 21.1, this is normal. For some reason, the only way to get "live" activity on the ATSC slicer screen from the QAM tuner, is to run the G* Test first, before going to the ATSC slicer screen. Then you should see the data there. This extra step is unnecessary with the OTA ATSC tuner.

Mark

Blue Bell

06-27-09, 12:36 PM

I'm grateful for this thread. Y'all spelled out how to do the G* test, etc. so even I could do it. My 250 now has an accurate clock and listings. Thanks!

WS65711

06-27-09, 12:50 PM

........... For some reason, the only way to get "live" activity on the ATSC slicer screen from the QAM tuner, is to run the G* Test first, before going to the ATSC slicer screen. Then you should see the data there. This extra step is unnecessary with the OTA ATSC tuner.

Mark

Sorry........ But although we agree on most things, this is not how it is for me. I haven't run a G*test on any of my units since shortly after April 19th (when the new firmware was released). Yet I see live updates on the ATSC-Slicer screen in the Current Channel column while tuned to some QAM channels. Remember that for some unknown reason, the ATSC-Slicer data does not always update live while you watch. But the live updating appears to occur for me whether or not I tune to an OTA channel first before tuning to the QAM channel. Still another mystery that remains unsolved............ :)

Possumgirl

06-27-09, 01:12 PM

mabuttra

06-27-09, 01:32 PM

My 500 received 2 timezone packets sometime in the afternoon of 6/14, then it got one early AM on 6/20 and another that afternoon. Total of four since analog shutdown. My 250 finally received one TZ packet mid-morning 6/20. That has been it.

These TimezonePkt issues are a mystery. You have two units yet they seem to "see" different data. You would think that two units connected to the same TVGOS source, would be perfectly sync'd to the same data (one gets a TzPkt, and so would the other one). I realize that you have been pointing out these discrepancies for some time, but I thought a lot of it was related to having both an analog and digital data source in your area. It makes me wonder if the Sonys aren't just missing some of the data that comes across (which contradicts what I have thought previously that it is a 100% macrovision problem). However, the guide data itself seems to be just fine. If the Sony was missing this data, I would think we would see a lot of "No Listing" in the Day 8 grid.

I also can't explain, if it is a Sony issue, why it seems to be specific to certain areas. Some areas receive plenty of TimezonePkts, my data is pretty anemic, but it is good enough.

Mark

mabuttra

06-27-09, 01:50 PM

Sorry........ But although we agree on most things, this is not how it is for me. I haven't run a G*test on any of my units since shortly after April 19th (when the new firmware was released). Yet I see live updates on the ATSC-Slicer screen in the Current Channel column while tuned to some QAM channels. Remember that for some unknown reason, the ATSC-Slicer data does not always update live while you watch. But the live updating appears to occur for me whether or not I tune to an OTA channel first before tuning to the QAM channel. Still another mystery that remains unsolved............ :)

Well there is always something... I based that info on the discussion I had with PhillyC here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16547187#post16547187). I posted my "foolproof" method for getting the data on the ATSC slicer screen to update. PhillyC pointed out that it didn't work when tuned to a digital station on cable, unless he runs the G* Test first. So I tuned to digital CBS on cable, and was able to verify that it acted just as he described. Maybe things have changed (again).

Mark

mabuttra

06-27-09, 01:53 PM

FWIW, the last 24 hours have been good for timezone packets. :D Sometime during the day yesterday, both units received two of them. They weren't there in the morning, but were by last evening. Then this morning each unit had received one more. Still no host channel on either unit, but otherwise all is well.

This is good, hopefully LimeyGreg's DHG also received one, and has a correct clock now, and maybe (dare I say it), a grid :eek:.

Mark

todd95008

06-27-09, 02:26 PM

Just a note:
I lost my 9.1 OTA listings back when analog PBS started back up a few months back. Since I was also on Comcast I switched that over to cable 9.1 and the listing was filled in the next day. I also ran into this issue about 2 years ago and at that time I found there were 2 KQEDDT OTA listings and only one of them worked. I don't think the second entry is still there but you can use the old analog 9 listing mapped to 9.1 as a temp fix.

My unit still has full listings (from 5.1 CBS) and no host channel.

still doesn't explain the lack of PBS 9.1 listings...which is a point of commonality with the 3410a presently....

I now have listings for OTA PBS 9.1 !!!
There are two entries for KQEDDT in the channel set up.
The old one was not getting listings so I was using cable 9.1 (see above). Last night I found the second entry for KQEDDT way down at the bottom of the list. I put that in and I now have the listings...
I deleted the cable 9.1 and I'm 100% with Sony !!!

Todd

bow1213

06-27-09, 03:29 PM

I've been exchanging PMs with HoustonPerson and I'm happy to report that his suggestions helped me get my clock corrected and my guide back.

Rammitinski

06-27-09, 03:44 PM

cosmicvoid

06-27-09, 03:53 PM

A few weeks ago, I changed my TVGOS config from OTA only to OTA + cable, to attempt to feed a DTV converter box into the DHG cable input, so I could use the converter to receive marginal stations that the DHG tuner can't handle. Making this change lost my grid & listings. I waited about 5 days to see if I could regain a grid, but no luck, even though it looked like the packets counts were present and counting. So, I finally gave up on using the cable input, when I found a signal combiner product, and then I set my TVGOS config back to OTA only.

After another week gone by, still no grid from my digital host, so I got impatient and patched my old VHS player RF out to the DHG antenna input, and put in my Jan '09 recording of the old analog host. The recording was made from 1AM~9AM, but I started the playback in the late afternoon. Then I did a G*-test to verify that VBI data was flowing. Within a few minutes, the time on the DHG front panel changed to the time on the VHS tape. After about 20 minutes, I did a check of the TVGOS screen, and was amazed that I already had a GRID!!! All the cells were "No Listing", of course. At that point, I saw no further need to keep the VHS tape playing, since I wasn't interested in re-acquiring last January's lineup, so I reconnected the OTA feed to the DHG. Overnight (last night), the grid completely filled in with current listings.

So, the upshot is that I lucked out in getting whatever packet type(s) I was missing, from the first 20 minutes of the analog tape, so now I should be good to go until something destroys the grid again. :D :D

LimeyGreg

06-27-09, 04:24 PM

Just a quick note - I went camping yesterday directly from work but my son checked the front panel clock in the morning and the clock was still wrong when he left for the campsite. I had to come back today to pick up some more things and feed the pets so I checked the 500 - FINALLY the clock is correct.

I checked both machines and sometime between mid-day Friday and mid-day Saturday they both got a grand total of THREE timezone packets. The offset now shows as -28800 and that daylight savings is currently in effect.

I have 4 lines of grid with "no listing" but it's building - so much for the blurb in the menu that after setting your zipcode the grid will fill in the next 24 hours.:mad:

WS65711 - MATV - Master Amplified TV system - I have a single antenna with a distribution amplifier providing feed to the TVs and DVR's in the house.

Gotta run - heading out to the beach, back to the camping site where it's a good deal cooler than it is near downtown LA.

Thanks for all the input - I hope to be able to report a full guide when I get back on Monday evening - have a good weekend.

PhillyC

06-27-09, 05:24 PM

FWIW, the last 24 hours have been good for timezone packets. :D Sometime during the day yesterday, both units received two of them. They weren't there in the morning, but were by last evening. Then this morning each unit had received one more. Still no host channel on either unit, but otherwise all is well.

I got one yesterday and one today. That's a first for two consecutive days.

PhillyC

06-27-09, 05:29 PM

Well there is always something... I based that info on the discussion I had with PhillyC here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16547187#post16547187). I posted my "foolproof" method for getting the data on the ATSC slicer screen to update. PhillyC pointed out that it didn't work when tuned to a digital station on cable, unless he runs the G* Test first. So I tuned to digital CBS on cable, and was able to verify that it acted just as he described. Maybe things have changed (again).

Mark

This is still the case (with Comcast cablecard). No ATSC Slicer updates unless the G*Test is run first.

Another oddity: I noted recently that my host channel finally showed up. On that same day the ATSC Slicer screen for the first time showed that there had been activity in the Host Channel column. Those numbers have not changed since then, although I still have a host and the guide continues to be perfect.

HDTV Sparky

06-27-09, 05:49 PM

If you are saying that you don't see any activity on the ATSC slicer screen when you tune to cable channel 21.1, this is normal. For some reason, the only way to get "live" activity on the ATSC slicer screen from the QAM tuner, is to run the G* Test first, before going to the ATSC slicer screen. Then you should see the data there. This extra step is unnecessary with the OTA ATSC tuner.

Mark

The information you supplied was accurate in my case.
After tuning to my QAM channel 21.1, then looking at the slicer page, no packet count increase, no activity.
Then , leaving it tuned to 21.1 , running the G test for two minutes , then returning to the slicer page , the packet counts have all increased.
I still don't get 'live' 'updated running totals , but I do see proof that 21.1 is sending the data.

Thanks!

mabuttra

06-27-09, 06:03 PM

So how, exactly, does one get the clock corrected without losing the guide or grid?

I'm having that problem now, after a couple of weeks of everything working fine - and soft resets don't seem to cure it.

I just don't want to go losing the grid for no 25 days, or possibly forever.

(By the way, I haven't done the update - but it was working well without it before, and I don't want to do it unless I absolutely have to.)

Are your listings still coming in? It sounds to me like you lost power, or some other glitch happened which has killed your digital data reception. If your day 8 is still filling in, then that isn't the problem. If day 8 is No Listing, then you need to run the G* Test on your host channel (it will probably also fix your clock, unless your DVR has actually lost your timezone information). If you refuse to install the new firmware then you are going to have to babysit your unit, and watch for glitches that kill the digital data (front panel resets also kill the data).

Mark

mabuttra

06-27-09, 06:05 PM

I've been exchanging PMs with HoustonPerson and I'm happy to report that his suggestions helped me get my clock corrected and my guide back.

Congratulations, looks like the TVGOS data is good in St. Louis as well. What does your DVR list as the host channel?

Mark

bow1213

06-27-09, 06:56 PM

Congratulations, looks like the TVGOS data is good in St. Louis as well. What does your DVR list as the host channel?

Mark

4.1 our local CBS channel

Possumgirl

06-27-09, 07:01 PM

I see that LimeyGreg's units got the same 3 timezone packets that mine did and that even Chicago got in on the act.

Couple of FWIW things: IF you need to run the G* test to start or restart the digital flow, you can be tuned to any channel and it will do the trick. I discovered that months ago to get around the problem of ending up with ffffffd if the G* test displayed that 1023 thing instead of the channel number.

Since I don't have cable I don't know if this next thing relates to the QAM/ATSC discussion above, but.....I've noticed that if my units are not tuned to the host when turned on, I won't see activity on the ATSC Slicer page even though I've changed channel to the host channel. I only see activity if the units are already tuned to the host when they're turned on.

mabuttra

06-27-09, 07:24 PM

I see that LimeyGreg's units got the same 3 timezone packets that mine did and that even Chicago got in on the act.

Finally, two units in the same city both got the same data. :)

Couple of FWIW things: IF you need to run the G* test to start or restart the digital flow, you can be tuned to any channel and it will do the trick. I discovered that months ago to get around the problem of ending up with ffffffd if the G* test displayed that 1023 thing instead of the channel number.

Are you sure this works with the old firmware? I thought I tried that once when I had the old firmware, and it didn't get the data flowing again. Oh well, I'll let the people who are still afraid to install the new firmware worry about this. ;)

Since I don't have cable I don't know if this next thing relates to the QAM/ATSC discussion above, but.....I've noticed that if my units are not tuned to the host when turned on, I won't see activity on the ATSC Slicer page even though I've changed channel to the host channel. I only see activity if the units are already tuned to the host when they're turned on.

That's interesting, I seldomly leave my dvr tuned to the host channel when I turn it off, yet my ATSC slicer screen is always alive when I go there. After tuning to your host channel, have you tried waiting until the info box goes away (about 3 or 4 seconds) before bringing up the TVGOS screen? I have found that if you don't let the info box pop up before going to the TVGOS screen, that the ATSC slicer screen is always dead.

Mark

avnstf

06-27-09, 08:08 PM

using the test setup below, but with my Sony also, the Sony quickly locked onto the channel 3 DTVPal output as the host channel - it seems to do this within a day, and the DL schedule goes back to a pure analog one (no 97's).

To follow up, Thursday I got no new listings - and it appeared there were no packets seen by the Sony (although my 3410a DID see packets, but has still gotten NO listings since June 12).

Friday the Sony got listings again, but then since then, I have removed the DTVPal input from the joiner going to the Sony. Today, blank host channel, and 8-day listings are pretty complete, though still a few "no listings" in the Thursday schedule. The DL schedule in the Sony is again the combined fomr, i.e., the first set of downloads shown is the digital schedule, but the analog schedules still come after that.

If events follow what I've seen before, by tomorrow or the next day the analog DL schedules will disappear (and I still won't have a host channel listed).

(I won't be messing around any more for the next 2 weeks, even on my disabled 3410a, because of a trip I'm going on, beginning early in the week....)

mabuttra

06-27-09, 08:18 PM

4.1 our local CBS channel

That is your host channel, but what does the host channel field show in the 753 menu? I'm guessing it will show 0:24-0, which is the RF channel for your digital 4.1.

Mark

bow1213

06-27-09, 08:51 PM

That is your host channel, but what does the host channel field show in the 753 menu? I'm guessing it will show 0:24-0, which is the RF channel for your digital 4.1.

Mark

You are correct

jwpottberg

06-27-09, 09:16 PM

.....

To follow up, Thursday I got no new listings - and it appeared there were no packets seen by the Sony (although my 3410a DID see packets, but has still gotten NO listings since June 12).

Friday the Sony got listings again, ...
(I though it was just me!) Same in Sunnyvale, Thursday no listings, returned on Friday. Still blank host channel, but almost positive my listings are coming from cable digital 5.1 (CBS). Have a good trip.

Jim

WS65711

06-28-09, 12:29 AM

You are correct

bow123 -

It looks as if your unit adds still more evidence to support the conjecture that if your unit will display a Host Channel in the 753 menu, it will also build a Channel Lineup (Grid). Congratulations on your success! :)

Rammitinski

06-28-09, 02:32 AM

Are your listings still coming in? It sounds to me like you lost power, or some other glitch happened which has killed your digital data reception. If your day 8 is still filling in, then that isn't the problem. If day 8 is No Listing, then you need to run the G* Test on your host channel (it will probably also fix your clock, unless your DVR has actually lost your timezone information).Thanks. I'll try running the G* test again (already did it once after the cutoff, and that's what got it first working).

As far as I know, I was still getting listings, but I didn't check as far up as day 8. I unhooked the antenna the other day and switched it back to the new TiVo. But I'll put it back and try it. I'll do the update when and if I have to.

I've found that I really do prefer the HD and SD PQ of the Sony, and if I can get it fully working right, I'll probably end up putting the TiVo on the set in the other room.

trumpace

06-28-09, 08:15 AM

mabuttra

06-28-09, 09:16 AM

Downloaded and installled the new sony firmware ok. Since then, while I still have the grid, there are no listings. I still get ads, but the clock is not correct.
Running the G test shows no packet activity at all on 2-1 (CBS). My host channel is blank, my VBI channel is 2-1. I am OTA only.
What can I do to get the VBI packets to resume? And to get a host channel?
Thanks,
Larry

With the new firmware, the G* Test no longer shows VBI counts on a digital channel. You need to go to the ATSC slicer screen in the 753 menu (it is 3 screens down from the first screen) to see activity. The G* Test should still set your clock if your timezone information (2 screens down from the first screen) hasn't been lost. It is possible that there is a problem with your CBS station. It is also possible that if they do have a problem, and they don't know it since they just pass the data on, but generally don't monitor it to make sure it is correct.

Mark

mabuttra

06-28-09, 09:38 AM

As far as I know, I was still getting listings, but I didn't check as far up as day 8. I unhooked the antenna the other day and switched it back to the new TiVo. But I'll put it back and try it. I'll do the update when and if I have to.

You can jump to day 8 by bringing up the guide, entering 200 on the remote (which pops up a shortcut box on the left), and then moving right with your remote. It should jump to the end of day 8.

Nothing will force you to update to the new firmware, however with the old firmware you need to be aware that after a power outage, or front panel reset, the digital data will be shut off, and it is up to you to get it started again. With the new firmware the digital data is on all the time, so there is no user intervention necessary.

Mark

mabuttra

06-28-09, 09:41 AM

I noticed last night that one (of my 3) HDD500's has lost it's digital HostChan.

Did this unit get its host channel back yet?

Mark

WS65711

06-28-09, 09:59 AM

Did this unit get its host channel back yet?

Mark

No it hasn't. I just checked again a minute ago. My other 2 DHG's and my Mits TV all still display the HostChan. It only disappeared on this one. :confused:

videobruce

06-28-09, 10:32 AM

If you have the ads, why don't you have the grid?

HoustonPerson

06-28-09, 10:40 AM

If you have the ads, why don't you have the grid?

1. How long has it been that way?
2. Are you OTA only? Or Cable? or Both?
3. When (did you) install .21 software?
4. Have you run G test?
5. Have you Force Host? If so the last date that was done?

videobruce

06-28-09, 11:06 AM

1. Since 1675 (so it seems that way). For the past two weeks or more.
2. It's set to OTA only (for now),
3. Shortly after it was released,
4. Orginally, I use to, but Macrovision and if I remember correctly in theses thread(s) it was posted not to,
5. Same as above.

I just did another reset a day ago. Like like time the Sony gets to the stage of the 2nd update firmware, the host state, clock set, d/l schedule and now the ads (I never paid attention if the ads were there or not before as I was too busy looking over all those damn diagnostic screens).

This is different than the Mits where I don't even get the first firmware update. It looks like everything is there, but the software doesn't know what to do with the grid data. No, there is no host channel listed, but there is a host id hex number.

The last session I left the setup the way it was. CATV and OTA. THis time I unchecked CATV. BTW, I have disconnected CATV altogether and blocked the Canadian analog host channelfrom the VHF high band from being available to both devices. Before, I believed the presence of this other 'foreign' host (literally) might of caused more problems.

trumpace

06-28-09, 11:07 AM

mabuttra

06-28-09, 11:12 AM

If you have the ads, why don't you have the grid?

To get a grid relies on several pieces of data to be received. If one piece of this data is missing, or sent out very infrequently (as seems to be the case in some areas of the country), it will take a long time (or never) to get a grid. The ads don't seem to have to wait for any other data for them to be received. If someone doesn't have a grid, it is because the necessary data has not been received that is required to build one.

Mark

HoustonPerson

06-28-09, 11:15 AM

videobruce

06-28-09, 11:17 AM

Are you willing to do Full Factory Reset?I have done it more than once with both devices. Directly afterwards, I then confirmed all the data was reset (either zero's, N/A's or 0x0's). It has been confirmed by Macrovision our host has been up and running for weeks now! That SCTE127 data is good.

trumpace; You can't, it is suppose to do that by itself.

I wish Macrovision would revise that V8 diagnostic questionare. It seems 75% of those questions are meaningless for this now digital enviroment.

mabuttra

06-28-09, 11:29 AM

Thanks for your reply.

My ASTC Slicer screen does show some actuvity,
but my timezone setting appears to have been lost:
here's what shows:

time zone element 0
time zone version 0
daylight/standard standard (of course I'm on daylight)
next DST TRANS N/A

How can I set my timezone correctly?

Thanks,

Larry

Thanks for posting the timezone information. It was definitely lost. Unfortunately you can't set the timezone, only the TVGOS can. Your DVR will have to receive a timezone packet, it will then fill in the timezone information, and your clock will then be set. How soon that will happen is the totally dependent on the TVGOS data in your area. Some areas receive bunches of timezonepkts a day, and some areas receive about 1 a month (if ever).

Mark

mabuttra

06-28-09, 11:35 AM

It has been confirmed by Macrovision our host has been up and running for weeks now! That SCTE127 data is good.

SCTE127 data isn't used for OTA. It is the data stream that cable companies send out over analog channels (legacy data). If it has been verified that your cable company is sending out the data over an analog channel, then you should be able to get a grid in less than 24 hours (you'll have to select CATV in the TVGOS setup).

Mark

WS65711

06-28-09, 02:39 PM

....................... Nothing will force you to update to the new firmware, however with the old firmware you need to be aware that after a power outage, or front panel reset, the digital data will be shut off, and it is up to you to get it started again. With the new firmware the digital data is on all the time, so there is no user intervention necessary.

Also the V-1.2.21 firmware has some additional screens in the 753 menu relating to the ATSC-Slicer, if I'm not mistaken.

mabuttra

06-28-09, 02:45 PM

Also the V-1.2.21 firmware has some additional screens in the 753 menu relating to the ATSC-Slicer, if I'm not mistaken.

The ATSC slicer screen existed in the old firmware, but the new screen has much more information on it.

Mark

videobruce

06-28-09, 05:53 PM

SCTE127 data isn't used for OTA.I misworded that sentence. I should of stated our CATV MSO's data is good.

videobruce

06-28-09, 06:09 PM

The following screen shots were taken after at least 24 hours after resets were done on both devices (the Sony and a Mits DLP).

These are from the Sony. Seems like everything but a grid:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff40/videobruce/Sonycurrentscreenshots12.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff40/videobruce/Sonycurrentscreenshots11.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff40/videobruce/Sonycurrentscreenshots10.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff40/videobruce/Sonycurrentscreenshots09.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff40/videobruce/Sonycurrentscreenshots08.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff40/videobruce/Sonycurrentscreenshots07.jpg

These are from the Mits. No clock set even though it is set within the diagnostic screens, no ads, no d/l schedule etc. Also notice it's on CATV 88.3. I have CATV unchecked (even though there are CATV channels in memory. I didn't include the ATSC Slicer page since it was all zero's:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff40/videobruce/Mitscurrentscreenshots06.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff40/videobruce/Mitscurrentscreenshots05.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff40/videobruce/Mitscurrentscreenshots04.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff40/videobruce/Mitscurrentscreenshots03.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff40/videobruce/Mitscurrentscreenshots02.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff40/videobruce/Mitscurrentscreenshots01.jpg

WS65711

06-28-09, 06:17 PM

videobruce -

The Sony in the pictures is "on it's way" to getting a Channel Lineup (Grid). If the data from your TVGOS source is complete, the Lineup will appear in time. How much time? In my experience, 6 days or less (usually less). :)

At that time, you will see a HostChan appear on the screen in picture five, and values will appear in the Host Channel column on the screen in picture three.

If the TVGOS data from your source station is incomplete or corrupted, there is unfortunately nothing you can do to force the Grid to appear. The only solution in that case is to use a video tape or possibly a DTVpal.

Possumgirl

06-28-09, 07:08 PM

kelliot

06-28-09, 07:25 PM

Well I almost fell over just now when I turned on my 500 and found it had set its host channel!! It wasn't there when I looked early this morning. Now to see how much longer it takes the 250 to do the same. That's the one that did nothing for 3 days after analog went away and I finally played the zip code game to blank out the host.

Neither unit got any more time zone packets today. Day 8 listings are there but there are a whole bunch of "no listing" and "no title" entries. Guess MV is playing on the weekends again.

I noticed on the 500's VBI Info screen that the field LastASetEnd is filled in. It has been N/A until now.

I was in Pasadena yesterday and checled on my 250 at my friends. It is connected to charter (no cablecard) and to OTA. It had guide, ads and host channel ID 1:0-14. For the first time it also had TVG1 and TVG2 fields filled in.
Channels also matched up.

I interpret this as normal operation.

Previously in Thousand Oaks (no OTA, TWC and some variation with/without cablecard), operation was OK with host channel 28, but there was no TVG1 or TVG2 ever.

WS65711

06-28-09, 07:48 PM

Well I almost fell over just now when I turned on my 500 and found it had set its host channel!! It wasn't there when I looked early this morning. Now to see how much longer it takes the 250 to do the same. That's the one that did nothing for 3 days after analog went away and I finally played the zip code game to blank out the host.

Neither unit got any more time zone packets today. Day 8 listings are there but there are a whole bunch of "no listing" and "no title" entries. Guess MV is playing on the weekends again.

I noticed on the 500's VBI Info screen that the field LastASetEnd is filled in. It has been N/A until now.

Hope you didn't hurt yourself :D:D:D

After reading your post, I went to look again at videobruce's pictures above, and to check the LastASetEnd field on my units. Videobruce's field shows "N/A" like you indicated that yours had previously. The field on my three units has dates and times, different on each unit. The unit that had lost it's HostChan a few days ago has the oldest date in the LastASetEnd field (6/20). The other two units have dates 2 days and 5 days newer than that (6/22 and 6/25), but I also noticed when I went to look that THEY have now both lost their HostChan settings also. :confused:

I looked at my Mits TV (V-9 TVGOS) and it still has a HostChan displayed. The Mits doesn't have a LastASetEnd field that I can look at, at least on any screen that I know how to get to.

Possumgirl

06-28-09, 08:24 PM

WS65711, sounds like getting these things to acquire a host and KEEP a host are two different things. :eek: It's always something. ;)

mabuttra

06-28-09, 08:34 PM

The following screen shots were taken after at least 24 hours after resets were done on both devices (the Sony and a Mits DLP).

These are from the Mits. No clock set even though it is set within the diagnostic screens, no ads, no d/l schedule etc. Also notice it's on CATV 88.3. I have CATV unchecked (even though there are CATV channels in memory. I didn't include the ATSC Slicer page since it was all zero's:

videobruce, your zip code is set to 00000 on the TV. you have to put your zip code in somewhere. Because of this your host ID is blank, which means it isn't going to do anything. You need to set your zip code!

Mark

mabuttra

06-28-09, 08:49 PM

PhillyC

06-28-09, 09:23 PM

WS65711, sounds like getting these things to acquire a host and KEEP a host are two different things. :eek: It's always something. ;)

My host channel disappeared sometime today. Blank again.

mabuttra

06-28-09, 09:38 PM

HoustonPerson

06-28-09, 09:51 PM

mabuttra

06-28-09, 10:03 PM

videobruce

Even though there may be other problems; generally when the number of ClockSets get in the range of 7-10 (you currently have six). You should start seeing some meaningful activity. And perhaps a Grid, and then within another day listings. Just hang tight for a few more days. Hopefully the "LineUpPkts" will begin clicking up when the ClockSets hit "10".

Sorry HoustonPerson, the number of clock sets has nothing to do with anything. Clock sets happen because of clock drift. You can run the G* Test and your clock will set over and over again. The worse your clock drift, the more often clock sets happen, which, by your definition means, the more your clock drifts the better your DVR will work. That is nonsense.

This information comes directly from macrovision on how the clock sets work:

Each device puts out clock beats and the guide calculates how many of these occur per minute. These are used to run the Guide clock. Each device (TV, DVR) has clock drift of some amount. Once a day the TV Guide tries to calculate this clock drift, by comparing a clock packet to the Guide clock, and adjusting itself to compensate for it. Each day it checks again and adjusts the number of beats per minute.A device whose clock drifts beyond the clock sanity level (15 minutes) will stop accepting clock packets from the guide because it thinks there are from tape (TotFrTape).

Mark

avnstf

06-28-09, 10:06 PM

SCTE127 data isn't used for OTA. It is the data stream that cable companies send out over analog channels (legacy data). If it has been verified that your cable company is sending out the data over an analog channel, then you should be able to get a grid in less than 24 hours (you'll have to select CATV in the TVGOS setup).

Mark
actually, SCTE127 data is the third data stream in OTA digital TVGOS... it is what the DTVPal converts for placement in the vbi of the analog output of the Pal, when it is put into TVGOS mode...

and, yes, it is also what cable companies get from Microvision and convert for insertion into the vbi of an analog channel...

mabuttra

06-28-09, 10:10 PM

actually, SCTE127 data is the third data stream in OTA digital TVGOS... it is what the DTVPal converts for placement in the vbi of the analog output of the Pal, when it is put into TVGOS mode...

and, yes, it is also what cable companies get from Microvision and convert for insertion into the vbi of an analog channel...

Thanks for the correction. The DVTPal does use this data also.

Mark

mabuttra

06-28-09, 10:35 PM

When I looked up the clock set information I didn't post this part of the text, which explains how the timezone packets work. Notice the bolded line that tells how often timezone packets (supposedly) arrive. It is to laugh.

Mark

Inserters send clock packets four times per minute to devices. These are in UTC time. When a device first searches for a host, it will accept UTC time from any Gemstar host. Once it finds a host station acceptable to its Zip Code, it will receive a time zone packet, which will tell it how much to offset from UTC time. These packets arrive several times per hour. The device should then set itself to local time.

Robert Brooks

06-29-09, 02:47 AM

I have tried both soft and hard boots, with and without cables. The only button on the front panel that is responsive is the center jog lever, which allows changing the channel up and down.

The image is squished vertically on screen as it is not outputting SD, probably 480i, with no way to change it.

I looked through the facts in the first post of this thread for information on the hidden front panel menu, and didn't see anything. Is there another FAQ page I am missing?

Edit: Found it in the FAQ, I will try this later.

Thanks for the help.

I recently experienced the same thing. I switched the remote to TV and selected screen mode to normal, I think it had been set to full. I got back all my menus and functionality. Hopefully you had solved this before now.

I did a search on "not responding" and that is when I found your message.

Rob

Marc_G

06-29-09, 06:36 AM

Hi folks,

I'm thinking of selling my HDD-500 to recoup some of the investment I made recently on an HTPC. Don't need the Sony any more.

I went to check eBay for recent prices and found none for sale, which is the first time I've ever seen that! I guess now that people know they work post-transition, fewer people are willing to part with them .

Last time I looked, a few months ago, people were getting in the $600s for them. Any ideas on current prices? I'm about to set up an eBay account to get rid of the unit.

Marc

HoustonPerson

06-29-09, 07:06 AM

Sorry HoustonPerson, the number of clock sets has nothing to do with anything. Clock sets happen because of clock drift. You can run the G* Test and your clock will set over and over again. The worse your clock drift, the more often clock sets happen, which, by your definition means, the more your clock drifts the better your DVR will work. That is nonsense.

This information comes directly from macrovision on how the clock sets work:

Mark

Mark the information you posted is incomplete and wrong regarding Videobruce.

I was referring specifically to Videobruce issues. He only has 6 clocks set on his unit; this has occured from some type or form of a "reset" on his machine - that it is, the clock sets recently started from "zero"; therefore his box is not ready based upton other factors in his DMA to begin making a grid. If other factors are correct for his DMA, there is a strong possibility that a grid is close at hand.

WS65711

06-29-09, 08:27 AM

videobruce, your zip code is set to 00000 on the TV. you have to put your zip code in somewhere. Because of this your host ID is blank, which means it isn't going to do anything. You need to set your zip code!

Mark

Doh !!! :D :D :D

videobruce

06-29-09, 09:11 AM

The Sony in the pictures is "on it's way" to getting a Channel Lineup (Grid). If the data from your TVGOS source is complete, the Lineup will appear in time. How much time? In my experience, 6 days or less (usually less).generally when the number of ClockSets get in the range of 7-10 (you currently have six). You should start seeing some meaningful activity. And perhaps a Grid, and then within another day listings. Just hang tight for a few more days. Hopefully the "LineUpPkts" will begin clicking up when the ClockSets hit "10"It's been two weeks.A device whose clock drifts beyond the clock sanity level (15 minutes) will stop accepting clock packets from the guide because it thinks there are from tape (TotFrTape).Interesting tidbit. No wonder no one can figure out all of this scrambled English:
"Sanity"= error, devation, etc.

Regarding the "00000" for the zip code in that Mits screen shot, through Mits fouled up user interface between their "Net Command" and the TVGOS interface, any time you change sommething in that Net Command screen, it resets the zip code back to "00000". This was done just before I took those screen shots. I didn't check it. Too many other things to check, can't remember to do everything :o

rrhb

06-29-09, 10:46 AM

mabuttra

06-29-09, 11:05 AM

Mark the information you posted is incomplete and wrong regarding Videobruce.

I was referring specifically to Videobruce issues. He only has 6 clocks set on his unit; this has occured from some type or form of a "reset" on his machine - that it is, the clock sets recently started from "zero"; therefore his box is not ready based upton other factors in his DMA to begin making a grid. If other factors are correct for his DMA, there is a strong possibility that a grid is close at hand.

He said in one of his first messages that he had reset his unit recently. His unit was ready to build a grid the day he reset it, macrovision just needs to send out the data, in a timely fashion. All of these DVRs should be able to recover from a reset in 24 hours, just like analog. Mine has been able to recover in less than 24 hours, and the number of clock sets that occurred during that time was probably much less than 10. The bottom line is, until his unit receives LineupPkts, it won't progress any farther, regardless of how many clock sets it has.

Mark

Possumgirl

06-29-09, 01:13 PM

Hi Possumgirl,

Glad to hear that someone in the L.A. area was able to get a host channel. By the way, what is it set at?

Also, is your clock correct too?

I'm OTA only. The host channel is 0:43-0 (RF for 2-1). Clock has been correct all along as I haven't lost it except for a minor lockup/reset the night of the 13th. Clock came back quickly after I reacquired correct GMT.

Best news of all!! This morning I found that my 250 also has a host channel. :D Both units got another timezone packet too. I also observed that the DL start and next DL timer fields are active now. So I guess I just wait and see if the host "sticks".

I know this has to be sheer coincidence because I've had solid, strong reception on channel 2-1 both before and after they moved to their final RF. However, I was having problems with some other channels coming in and Sat. I changed everything to a different antenna. So Sun. one unit sets its host and today the other one. It's enough to make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm. :rolleyes:

mabuttra

06-29-09, 01:33 PM

I noticed on the 500's VBI Info screen that the field LastASetEnd is filled in. It has been N/A until now.

Best news of all!! This morning I found that my 250 also has a host channel. :D Both units got another timezone packet too. I also observed that the DL start and next DL timer fields are active now. So I guess I just wait and see if the host "sticks".

Your DL fields, and your download history screens will update with your host channel set. Did you notice on the 250 if the LastASetEnd field filled in with today's date, and do you know what it was before?

Mark

Rbrodzinsky

06-29-09, 02:11 PM

Possumgirl

06-29-09, 02:33 PM

Your DL fields, and your download history screens will update with your host channel set. Did you notice on the 250 if the LastASetEnd field filled in with today's date, and do you know what it was before?

Mark

It was N/A. I checked that yesterday. Now it has today's date at 10:45 GMT. The 500 has yesterday's date at 15:17 GMT so whatever occurred happened during different types of DLs (one ID70, one ID97).

mabuttra

06-29-09, 02:36 PM

I still don't have a host channel, but other than that, everything is working fine. Last night I forgot and left the unit "tuned" to a different station other than the digital host (5-1), and the grid continued to fill in correctly.

I'll be glad when the myth that the DHG doesn't know how to find TVGOS data gets put to rest. The DHG has never had trouble finding the TVGOS data source (no matter what channel it is tuned to when turned off). The problem is the state of the data coming from that source. That is the problem.

Mark

stewd2

06-29-09, 02:37 PM

Tucknan

06-29-09, 02:49 PM

I'm OTA only. The host channel is 0:43-0 (RF for 2-1). Clock has been correct all along as I haven't lost it except for a minor lockup/reset the night of the 13th. Clock came back quickly after I reacquired correct GMT.

Best news of all!! This morning I found that my 250 also has a host channel. :D Both units got another timezone packet too. I also observed that the DL start and next DL timer fields are active now. So I guess I just wait and see if the host "sticks".

I know this has to be sheer coincidence because I've had solid, strong reception on channel 2-1 both before and after they moved to their final RF. However, I was having problems with some other channels coming in and Sat. I changed everything to a different antenna. So Sun. one unit sets its host and today the other one. It's enough to make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm. :rolleyes:

Same here in Sherman Oaks, OTA only. I now have a Host Channel (0:43-0) as of today (was blank up until now). Must be something they did at the transmitter? My clock set and failing clock sets are both 0:2-1 now as well. My 500 is working correctly in all areas now, and all I did after the .21 firmware upgrade (done just before the changeover) was to wait and see.

mabuttra

06-29-09, 02:50 PM

It was N/A. I checked that yesterday. Now it has today's date at 10:45 GMT. The 500 has yesterday's date at 15:17 GMT so whatever occurred happened during different types of DLs (one ID70, one ID97).

You can go in, and look at the download history on the 250, and see when the first download happened (which will be the first download after the host channel set). I bet you will find that the first recorded download will have occured right after the 10:45 time. Could the LastASetEnd field indicate the time the host channel was successfully set? It is all speculation at this point.

Mark

Possumgirl

06-29-09, 03:37 PM

Same here in Sherman Oaks, OTA only. I now have a Host Channel (0:43-0) as of today (was blank up until now). Must be something they did at the transmitter? My clock set and failing clock sets are both 0:2-1 now as well. My 500 is working correctly in all areas now, and all I did after the .21 firmware upgrade (done just before the changeover) was to wait and see.

That sure makes it sound like something "shook loose" here in L.A. :)

You can go in, and look at the download history on the 250, and see when the first download happened (which will be the first download after the host channel set). I bet you will find that the first recorded download will have occured right after the 10:45 time. Could the LastASetEnd field indicate the time the host channel was successfully set? It is all speculation at this point.

Mark

The first entry I see is 11:11 GMT which would indeed be the first DL scheduled after the 10:45 time.

As usual, my two units are not behaving the same though. :eek: Prior to the host setting, when I'd look at the ATSC Slicer screen the counts in the CurrChan column would always be incrementing from a zero starting point and of course nothing was happening in the Host column. Well, on the 500 the host column got a few entries yesterday (60-70) and has not incremented since. The current column has thousands of entries so it's obviously incrementing while turned off.

The 250 however, is incrementing the Host column when turned off and the Current column is still incrementing from zero when unit gets turned on. I'm not going to worry about it. :D

drm2295

06-29-09, 03:39 PM

I was just wondering has anyone attempted to add a second hard drive to the sony unit and if so was it successful. Want to add a second drive but am not sure the sony dvr will read a second hard drive.
Go to section 1.1.7
http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=7b7a8b01254ae23d92d556eec73cd3b4&topic=9.0

stewd2

06-29-09, 03:53 PM

Go to section 1.1.7
http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=7b7a8b01254ae23d92d556eec73cd3b4&topic=9.0

Thanks for the link unfortunately there is no way to setup a second hard drive as of yet.

rrhb

06-29-09, 04:17 PM

That sure makes it sound like something "shook loose" here in L.A. :)

The first entry I see is 11:11 GMT which would indeed be the first DL scheduled after the 10:45 time.

As usual, my two units are not behaving the same though. :eek: Prior to the host setting, when I'd look at the ATSC Slicer screen the counts in the CurrChan column would always be incrementing from a zero starting point and of course nothing was happening in the Host column. Well, on the 500 the host column got a few entries yesterday (60-70) and has not incremented since. The current column has thousands of entries so it's obviously incrementing while turned off.

The 250 however, is incrementing the Host column when turned off and the Current column is still incrementing from zero when unit gets turned on. I'm not going to worry about it. :D

Hi Possumgirl,

Oh man, I hope my 250 received its clock and host channel. Can't wait to get home and check it out.

I don't know if this has anything to do with this run of good news but last week I emailed KCBS and asked them if they they could help me with my clock (via TVGOS) problem and they said that the best they could figure was that I needed a firmware upgrade. However, in my final thank-you reply I did mention that I had been hoping that the problem might be something as simple as a configuration setting.

Who knows?

WS65711

06-29-09, 08:42 PM

........... The 250 however, is incrementing the Host column when turned off and the Current column is still incrementing from zero when unit gets turned on. I'm not going to worry about it. :D

And you shouldn't worry about it. Your unit is now truly 100% operational, to borrow a phrase. It's operating how it is supposed to since it has actually found a Host Channel to display in the HostChan field, and you get counts in the Host Channel column. :)

Possumgirl

06-29-09, 09:11 PM

And you shouldn't worry about it. Your unit is now truly 100% operational, to borrow a phrase. It's operating how it is supposed to since it has actually found a Host Channel to display in the HostChan field, and you get counts in the Host Channel column. :)

Yeah. Now if only the other one would do the same thing, but I don't want to sound greedy. ;) Got two more time zone packets during the day today too so things are indeed looking up here in the golden west.

Note to Rrhb: if your contact with KCBS had anything to do with things starting to work right, thank you thank you thank you.

Ray1938

06-29-09, 10:02 PM

I was out of town for several days, and when I got back last night, there was a window on my 500 unit, for clicking on my cable service, TW. After I made that selection, I saw that the unit had locked onto guide channel 43 (CBS HD). My 250 did so many weeks ago. However, all my cable channels were turned off. I assume that my above action of choosing my cable service did that since on the previous night, the unit recorded a cable show.

Ray

LimeyGreg

06-30-09, 12:17 AM

My 500 has received SIX timezonepkts and the 250 received FOUR. My guide is now back on the 500, it took the better part of a week, a lot longer than the normal 24 hours that's for sure.

I too now have a host channel on both machines.

So the moral of the upgrade story is that if you loose you offset information and have to wait for the elusive TimeZonePkts it can take a while.

Fortunately I had another machine, not only to record programs that were previously recorded on the 500 but to be able to look at the TVGOS data and use it to compare the two machines - without a second machine you are in the dark and it can be very frustrating.

Now I have more of a grasp on what is going on but the whole thing has left me wondering why the system downloaded the guide within about 24 hours in the analogue days but took over a week in the digital environment. The TVGOS software upgrades download quickly but it is the lack of TimeCodePkts that hold things up - why are these so sparse in the digital data stream?

WS65711

06-30-09, 07:49 AM

My 500 has received SIX timezonepkts and the 250 received FOUR. My guide is now back on the 500, it took the better part of a week, a lot longer than the normal 24 hours that's for sure.

I too now have a host channel on both machines.

Let me be the first to congratulate you. You are now officially "100% Operational"!!! :)

So the moral of the upgrade story is that if you loose you offset information and have to wait for the elusive TimeZonePkts it can take a while.

Fortunately I had another machine, not only to record programs that were previously recorded on the 500 but to be able to look at the TVGOS data and use it to compare the two machines - without a second machine you are in the dark and it can be very frustrating.

Now I have more of a grasp on what is going on but the whole thing has left me wondering why the system downloaded the guide within about 24 hours in the analogue days but took over a week in the digital environment. The TVGOS software upgrades download quickly but it is the lack of TimeCodePkts that hold things up - why are these so sparse in the digital data stream?

Obviously MV still has some issues they are working out. The time it took you to recover seems to be in the same range of what it took me to recover (three days to 6 days). Hopefully things on MV's end will continue to get better, and this time will be reduced in the future. Unfortunately some areas (like Houston) still don't seem to be getting the proper data for establishing a HostChan at all, no matter how long they wait. :(

JoeKustra

06-30-09, 08:09 AM

I'll be glad when the myth that the DHG doesn't know how to find TVGOS data gets put to rest. The DHG has never had trouble finding the TVGOS data source (no matter what channel it is tuned to when turned off). The problem is the state of the data coming from that source. That is the problem.

Mark

I'll back you up on that premise Mark. The host channel is always used. However I do have one observation: if I'm recording I do not get listing updates. It also seems my listing updates seem to happen usually around midnight, but come at other times also. Yesterday at 7am (Monday) I had listings except for Wednesday and Saturday. Today at 7am, those days are filled in and I'm full until midnight next Tuesday. Now this could be MV since it seems a lot of people here are in a good mood today. It could be that I record Letterman or Leno nightly, hence being in a record mode at midnight. Since Leno is gone and Letterman is off for at least two weeks, I'll track missing days for the next few weeks. If I still get gaps, it's not due to recording at midnight. I also see that when my VBI packet count is under 60 per minute, I lose listings. When the count is over 200 per minute, I get full listings. That's just an observation, and since I'm cable only I still use .13 firmware.

But this is all speculation since MV never tells anybody anything. Maybe they should have a web site or something. Makes me wonder how people who work there can sleep at night.

fallingwater

06-30-09, 11:23 AM

This probably won't help much, but it's better than nothing!

http://www.macrovision.com/support/9391.htm?link_id=topnav

mabuttra

06-30-09, 11:39 AM

I'll back you up on that premise Mark. The host channel is always used. However I do have one observation: if I'm recording I do not get listing updates.

I have tried this also, when I was chasing another problem that was preventing my grid from populating, I tried setting a recording that covered an ID70 download time (since the data would fill in if I had the DVR on, and tuned to my host channel). However, I got no data to download during the recording time.

It also seems my listing updates seem to happen usually around midnight, but come at other times also. Yesterday at 7am (Monday) I had listings except for Wednesday and Saturday. Today at 7am, those days are filled in and I'm full until midnight next Tuesday.

Are you sure your DHG isn't using an analog host channel on cable? It's very unusual in the digital realm to be missing a day of data in the middle of the week, since the data seems to fill in a whole 8 day block at a time.

Mark

Possumgirl

06-30-09, 12:24 PM

I have tried this also, when I was chasing another problem that was preventing my grid from populating, I tried setting a recording that covered an ID70 download time (since the data would fill in if I had the DVR on, and tuned to my host channel). However, I got no data to download during the recording time.

Interesting. Remember several months ago when, for a couple weeks, MV was not sending out day 8 on analog hosts? I set one of my units to record overnight from the digital host. That unit got day 8 listings. The other unit (using analog) did not. I tried that several times and consistently got listings when recording. I haven't tried it with the .21 FW and the digital only environment, so maybe it wouldn't work now. :confused:

mabuttra

06-30-09, 01:12 PM

Interesting. Remember several months ago when, for a couple weeks, MV was not sending out day 8 on analog hosts? I set one of my units to record overnight from the digital host. That unit got day 8 listings. The other unit (using analog) did not. I tried that several times and consistently got listings when recording. I haven't tried it with the .21 FW and the digital only environment, so maybe it wouldn't work now. :confused:

Did you record all night, or just during one of the ID70 downloads? I wonder if your DVR may have found the data from your digital host, and didn't switch back to your analog host after the recording? I was thinking I did my experiment before the new firmware was released, but I could be wrong. At the time, I was surprised that my recording didn't work since, when the DVR is on, it is always recording anyway.

I also wanted to ask about the DVR that stopped updating the HostChan column. Is it still updating the LastDLStart, DLTimer fields, or does it act like it did when the host channel was blank?

Mark

Possumgirl

06-30-09, 02:09 PM

Did you record all night, or just during one of the ID70 downloads? I wonder if your DVR may have found the data from your digital host, and didn't switch back to your analog host after the recording? I was thinking I did my experiment before the new firmware was released, but I could be wrong. At the time, I was surprised that my recording didn't work since, when the DVR is on, it is always recording anyway.

Record all night starting shortly before 1:00AM and continuing until after 6:00AM so that it was still recording when I got up.

I also wanted to ask about the DVR that stopped updating the HostChan column. Is it still updating the LastDLStart, DLTimer fields, or does it act like it did when the host channel was blank?

Mark

It is updating those fields as well as all the DL "history" fields on those log pages. But it is not updating the HostChan column at all. Oddly, sometimes the CurrChan column has started incrementing from zero when I turn it on and other times there are hundreds/thousands of entries in that column. Just part of the mystery I guess as to why two units that should behave the same, don't. :confused:

Neither unit has received timezone packets today.

LimeyGreg

06-30-09, 02:54 PM

Neither unit has received timezone packets today.

I will be keeping an eye on the timezone packets to see when they arrive, that way I can wait until the right time to upgrade my 250 just in case I loose the offset info, that way the 250 will hopefully get listings in a more timely manner.

It would be good to know their frequency, that way any other LA area residents can know when to expect their machine to get the guide.

WS65711 - 100% operational !!!!! yeah right - until the next power glitch that resets it.

mabuttra

06-30-09, 03:45 PM

[...]
Oddly, sometimes the CurrChan column has started incrementing from zero when I turn it on and other times there are hundreds/thousands of entries in that column. Just part of the mystery I guess as to why two units that should behave the same, don't. :confused:

That is odd. Are you still tuning it away from your host channel before turning off the DVR? It is almost like it doesn't always know that your DVR is off. However, if you are tuning it off your host channel, then it would have to know it is off, because it would have to manually tune back to your host channel, and if it thought its was turned on, it wouldn't do this.

Mark

Possumgirl

06-30-09, 04:21 PM

That is odd. Are you still tuning it away from your host channel before turning off the DVR? It is almost like it doesn't always know that your DVR is off. However, if you are tuning it off your host channel, then it would have to know it is off, because it would have to manually tune back to your host channel, and if it thought its was turned on, it wouldn't do this.

Mark

Last night it was left tuned to 4-1 (NBC). When I turned it on around 8:00AM I tuned to 2-1 and used your trick of waiting for the info bar to go away before going to 753... pages. The CurrChan column had begun incrementing from zero. I left it on 2-1 and turned it off. Just now I turned it on. As an example, the C Good entries in the CurrChan column are now over 15000 and TVG is over 6000, so it just kept going while off. So you're right, it acts like it doesn't know when it is off. Other than that though, it seems to be working just fine.

jmonier

06-30-09, 04:44 PM

I'm OTA only. The host channel is 0:43-0 (RF for 2-1). Clock has been correct all along as I haven't lost it except for a minor lockup/reset the night of the 13th. Clock came back quickly after I reacquired correct GMT.

Best news of all!! This morning I found that my 250 also has a host channel. :D Both units got another timezone packet too. I also observed that the DL start and next DL timer fields are active now. So I guess I just wait and see if the host "sticks".

I know this has to be sheer coincidence because I've had solid, strong reception on channel 2-1 both before and after they moved to their final RF. However, I was having problems with some other channels coming in and Sat. I changed everything to a different antenna. So Sun. one unit sets its host and today the other one. It's enough to make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm. :rolleyes:

Probably nothing to do with the antenna. I haven't changed anything and today I've got 0:43-1 as host channel.

Could it be that the unit waits two weeks to make sure it's solid before it displays?

freepc

06-30-09, 07:07 PM

Hello,

Just update to new 1.2.21 yesterday and patiently waiting for new guide (25 days?). Have two issues. First, after turning on, it went directly to play most recent recorded listing. Like to go to regular tv first. Second, can't delelete listings even the default before recording was to keep/delete until "I delete". Is this normal for new update? Never have these issues like this before new update. Anyone experience these issues? Thanks.......

JoeKustra

06-30-09, 08:01 PM

I have tried this also, when I was chasing another problem that was preventing my grid from populating, I tried setting a recording that covered an ID70 download time (since the data would fill in if I had the DVR on, and tuned to my host channel). However, I got no data to download during the recording time.

Are you sure your DHG isn't using an analog host channel on cable? It's very unusual in the digital realm to be missing a day of data in the middle of the week, since the data seems to fill in a whole 8 day block at a time.

Mark

I wish there was more room for profile information. Yes, my downloads come from an analog, cable only, taxpayer supported channel: C-SPAN. Since data stopped from PBS in February I only have this source. I've tried one cheap outdoor antenna with no luck. Now I'm trying a better antenna, but it doesn't look good.

mabuttra

06-30-09, 08:25 PM

Hello,
Just update to new 1.2.21 yesterday and patiently waiting for new guide (25 days?).

Just out of curiosity, what happened to your "old" guide?

Have two issues. First, after turning on, it went directly to play most recent recorded listing. Like to go to regular tv first.

Are you saying it starts playing the last recording when you turn it on, or that the TV Guide screen comes up when you turn it on instead of going to regular TV?

To get to the setting for whether the TV Guide comes up at startup, bring up the TV Guide, go up to the top menu, and over to Setup. Then go down to 'Change default options', and press select. Then select 'General Defaults' and on the left side of the screen change auto guide from on, to off.

Second, can't delelete listings even the default before recording was to keep/delete until "I delete". Is this normal for new update? Never have these issues like this before new update. Anyone experience these issues? Thanks.......

Follow the above instructions, but instead of selecting General Defaults, select 'Record defaults'. On the left, change the 'keep until' setting to whatever you want.

Hope that helps,
Mark

mabuttra

06-30-09, 08:44 PM

I wish there was more room for profile information. Yes, my downloads come from an analog, cable only, taxpayer supported channel: C-SPAN. Since data stopped from PBS in February I only have this source. I've tried one cheap outdoor antenna with no luck. Now I'm trying a better antenna, but it doesn't look good.

I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page. The analog downloads start about 2 hours earlier than the digital downloads. However the guide data downloads start at the same time for both analog and digital. As long as your recording is done by 2:30am I would think there wouldn't be an issue, unless the interruption of the ID81 downloads are the problem (I believe there are 2 that happen during the time you are recording, a 3rd one happens about 1:00pm the next day).

So the VBI data rates were from the G* Test screen. I've never paid much attention to the data rates, as long as the counts are counting that is all I care about. :)

Mark

freepc

06-30-09, 09:10 PM

Just out of curiosity, what happened to your "old" guide?

Are you saying it starts playing the last recording when you turn it on, or that the TV Guide screen comes up when you turn it on instead of going to regular TV?

To get to the setting for whether the TV Guide comes up at startup, bring up the TV Guide, go up to the top menu, and over to Setup. Then go down to 'Change default options', and press select. Then select 'General Defaults' and on the left side of the screen change auto guide from on, to off.

Follow the above instructions, but instead of selecting General Defaults, select 'Record defaults'. On the left, change the 'keep until' setting to whatever you want.

Hope that helps,
Mark

No "old guide" nor "new guide" now. Hope to have it soon.

Yes, turn on and start playing recorded listing right away.

Tried keep util "I delete" but can't delete anyway. It makes sense but won't work. Can't even delete previous listings before update.

Thanks

mabuttra

06-30-09, 11:28 PM

No "old guide" nor "new guide" now. Hope to have it soon.

What I meant was did you have a grid before the upgrade? At what point did the grid disappear? Did it happen as a result of the upgrade, or did you reset the DVR, or something else?

Yes, turn on and start playing recorded listing right away.

This is very odd behavior. I've never heard of this happening.

Tried keep util "I delete" but can't delete anyway. It makes sense but won't work. Can't even delete previous listings before update.

So you couldn't delete recordings before the upgrade either? Have you received any kind of hard drive errors that you know of? Strange messages like INFxxxxxx on the front display?

Do you currently have a grid? Have you watched everything on the DVR?

If you are waiting for a grid to show up, and you have watched all the recorded shows, but can't delete them, then now would be a good time to do the reset that also formats the hard drive. However if you do have a grid, then you probably don't want to do this yet. Formatting the hard drive will also erase all of the recorded programs.

Mark

kwg

06-30-09, 11:48 PM

freepc

> First, after turning on, it went directly to play most recent recorded listing.
>> Yes, turn on and start playing recorded listing right away.
> Second, can't delelete listings even the default before recording was to keep/delete until "I delete".

I don't quite follow the described problems, but maybe the DVR is in Demo Mode?
That could explain both problems.
http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html#Section114
1.1.4 What is 'Demo Mode'?

mabuttra

07-01-09, 07:02 AM

kwg

07-01-09, 10:12 AM

mabuttra,

> What is the current state of your listings in Houston?

I waited a full 7 days and decided to give it a kickstart.
The listings are working okay.

If I had more time and gumption, I would refine the process. I used a DTVPal and backup videotape again. Using the entire 6hr tape shouldn't be necessary. And there is probably a time window for using the DTVPal on its own.

I just hope MV and/or CBS Ch11 will fix the underlying problem.

Thankfully this shouldn't be necessary to repeat any time soon...

freepc

07-01-09, 10:32 AM

Good call kwg. This could be what the problem is. He didn't mention whether he had just acquired this DVR.

What is the current state of your listings in Houston?

Mark

Mark and kwg,

"Demo Mode" was exactly my problems. New firmware defaulted to that. Back to normal now except guide. I do have the grid with advertising and black screen with "there is no data..." Do I need to wait up to 25 days to get the guide now? Will format the hard drive/system help to expedite obtaining new guide (don't mind to erase everything)? I am in Las Vegas NV.

Thank you very much for all your help.

WS65711

07-01-09, 10:57 AM

.......... I do have the grid with advertising and black screen with "there is no data..." Do I need to wait up to 25 days to get the guide now? Will format the hard drive/system help to expedite obtaining new guide (don't mind to erase everything)? I am in Las Vegas NV.

What you have is "No Grid". The "Grid" is the spreadsheet-like section of the screen where the black part saying "there is no data" is now. Hopefully you will acquire the Channel Lineup (Grid) withing about 3 to 6 days, or less. I don't know if anyone else here is in the Las Vegas area and has been able to acquire a HostChan or Grid since the analog cutoff on June 12th. Maybe someone will chime in . . .

I think someone had posted a picture recently of a screen in the "No Grid" condition, but I can't seem to find it.

freepc

07-01-09, 11:24 AM

What you have is "No Grid". The "Grid" is the spreadsheet-like section of the screen where the black part saying "there is no data" is now. Hopefully you will acquire the Channel Lineup (Grid) withing about 3 to 6 days, or less. I don't know if anyone else here is in the Las Vegas area and has been able to acquire a HostChan or Grid since the analog cutoff on June 12th. Maybe someone will chime in . . .

I think someone had posted a picture recently of a screen in the "No Grid" condition, but I can't seem to find it.

After the update I have "no grid" now. I ran the G* test this is what I get: Flash: Pass, VBI: Fail, ATSC: Pass, Serial: Fail, IR: Fail, and I am on Version 08.01.71. Do I need to format or do anything else now? Or I just need to wait 3 to 6 days hopefully to get the grid... Thanks

WS65711

07-01-09, 11:52 AM

You shouldn't need to do a format or anything else. Also, with the new firmware there is really no reason to run the G*Test anymore.

If you know how, go into the 753 screens to see which TVGOS patch version you have. This needs to be version 8.06.44, and will update all by itself. If you're not at that patch level, it will need to update before it can get a HostChan and Grid.

freepc

07-01-09, 12:03 PM

slc1t

07-01-09, 12:21 PM

WS65711

07-01-09, 01:35 PM

Could you please give me instruction on how to go into 753 screens? Thanks

Press "Guide" on the remote to go to the TV Guide screen. Move up to the menu bar at the top of the screen. Scroll over two click to the right and select "Setup". Scroll down one click to get to the top choice within Setup (I don't remember what it says). DON'T PRESS ENTER. Press 7,5,3,1,5,9,8,5,2 on the remote. DON'T PRESS ENTER. The 753 menu will open. There are multiple screens of information. The first screen will show you the TVGOS software version and patch levels.

teeitup

07-01-09, 03:01 PM

I live in Meridian, Idaho as well and I own a dhg-hdd250. Everything was great until the digital transition upon which my guide started showing "no listing" for all 30 minute slots. I upgraded to the new firmware that Sony posted but no luck after 5 days. So I did a "tv guide" reset which basically eliminated my grid and haven't recoverded since.

I called the local CBS station and left a voice mail for the chief engineer -- asking about TV guide data being broadcast with the digital signal -- and haven't heard from him yet.

What is odd is that we have a Tivax digital converter box on another TV. When you press "info" while watching a program the title of the program shows up as well as a brief summary of the show. Is this TV Guide information or is it data that is being broadcast in a different format that is not compatible with the Sony?? When I press "info" on the hdd250 I get the infamous "no listing" title. So I'm confused as to whether we are getting TV guide data in the Boise area or not...

If you have made any progress let me know. Anyone else out there with answers I would really appreciate any help I can get. At this point I am recording manually which is OK but not as nice. Thanks and look forward to hearing from folks.

You contacted the right person at your local station. Hopefully you will get good news back. Rabbitears.info doesn't list a TVGOS host channel in Boise. Your Tivax is using PSIP which is different than the TVGOS required for the Sony guide.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos

Here is another link you can try. It looks like your local cable co (Cable One, Inc) is sending out the TVGOS but is doesn't list anything for OTA:

http://digitaltransition.macrovision.com/digtrans.aspx

freepc

07-01-09, 04:59 PM

Press "Guide" on the remote to go to the TV Guide screen. Move up to the menu bar at the top of the screen. Scroll over two click to the right and select "Setup". Scroll down one click to get to the top choice within Setup (I don't remember what it says). DON'T PRESS ENTER. Press 7,5,3,1,5,9,8,5,2 on the remote. DON'T PRESS ENTER. The 753 menu will open. There are multiple screens of information. The first screen will show you the TVGOS software version and patch levels.

At 753 screen I got 08.01.71/08.06.44/00.00 ........... Is this what you mean? I guess I just have to wait from here on. Video Source is from: OTA and Build time is 9/22/06. Thank you very much for your help.

Possumgirl

07-01-09, 07:17 PM

Guess my 500 was only taking the host channel for a test drive. It was still there this morning, but now it's blank again. So it lasted all of three days.

RobMeyer1

07-01-09, 07:43 PM

Yesterday, My DVR was exhibiting delayed reaction to the remote, so I decided I needed to do a front panel reset. I am OTA only and have not updated the Sony firmware. I am happy to report that I was able to get my guide back immediately.

The clock, which would update within a couple of minutes when analog was available, did not update within 30 minutes. So I ran the G*Test while tuned to 5.1 KNME which I had previously determined was the local TV Guide channel. It showed no VBI packets. I tested it again, and it did show VBI packets. I also noticed that my clock was back. My unit is working well again, and the guide today is complete out to 8 days.

So it is possible to recover from a front panel reset in my digital OTA environment using the old Sony firmware, but it may require running the G*Test to get the clock back and to update the guide.

Thanks to the posters in this forum, I knew what steps to take. This forum and the knowledgable people who post in it are a valuable resource.

LDD1

07-01-09, 08:05 PM

Anyone in Albuquerque using a Sony DHG-HDD 250 and able to reset or something and get the TVGOS again?

WS65711

07-01-09, 09:49 PM

At 753 screen I got 08.01.71/08.06.44/00.00 ........... Is this what you mean? I guess I just have to wait from here on. Video Source is from: OTA and Build time is 9/22/06. Thank you very much for your help.

Yes, that is what ytou want to see. The only thing left for you to do now is wait. Hopefully only 3 to 6 days . . . :)

WS65711

07-01-09, 09:51 PM

Guess my 500 was only taking the host channel for a test drive. It was still there this morning, but now it's blank again. So it lasted all of three days.

Mine that had disappeared second (on unit #3 used for testing) has re-appeared either yesterday or today (didn't look yesterday). My other to units are still MIA after having established a HostChan and losing it a day or two after the first unit did. Maybe this is today's normal???

WS65711

07-01-09, 09:54 PM

WS65711

07-01-09, 09:57 PM

Did this unit get its host channel back yet?

Mark

No, but one of my other units did. And it picked up OTA CBS this time instead of OTA PBS.

PhillyC

07-01-09, 10:14 PM

Guess my 500 was only taking the host channel for a test drive. It was still there this morning, but now it's blank again. So it lasted all of three days.

My Sony also lost the host channel after 3-4 days, but it was back the next day. No adverse effect on listings.

Ray1938

07-02-09, 03:00 AM

Guess my 500 was only taking the host channel for a test drive. It was still there this morning, but now it's blank again. So it lasted all of three days.

After I read your message, I checked my 500 and it too had the same status as yours, but the guide was filled until next Thursday. My 250 displays the host channel but its listings only extended thru most of next Wednesday.

Ray

WS65711

07-02-09, 06:30 AM

Does having a Host displayed really matter?

After I read your message, I checked my 500 and it too had the same status as yours, but the guide was filled until next Thursday. My 250 displays the host channel but its listings only extended thru most of next Wednesday.

Ray

Yes it does appear to matter. Not for getting Program Listings, you can get those without the HostChan being displayed. Many of us have seen this.
But it appears that you must have a HostChan displayed (or at least displayed temporarily) in order to acquire a Channel Lineup (Grid).

AtlantisMichael

07-02-09, 07:12 AM

Upgraded the 250, no problem with that. Noticed the different screens in the 753... In the demo screen, it shows a line that says Available and then yes. Anything on this? Plus, what is the FDB screen?
Also, both units show host channel.
Michael

WS65711

07-02-09, 07:44 AM

Also, both units show host channel.

The new digital Host or the old analog Host? If it still shows the old analog Host you may want to do a temporary zipcode change and then back to your proper zipcode in order to blank out the old analog Host setting. This should help it to find the new digital Host faster. Doing this won't cause you to lose your Grid or Listings.

frank70

07-02-09, 07:53 AM

Guess my 500 was only taking the host channel for a test drive. It was still there this morning, but now it's blank again. So it lasted all of three days.My experience is that the digital host channel listed in the 753... screens will come and go (may be listed in physical-channel or virtual-channel format), but its presence or absence from that screen in no way affects the ability of the unit to download TVGOS data from that host.

I think it just goes on a search for a better host channel every day or two, and if you just happen to catch it when it's searching, no channel will be listed; nonetheless, every morning the new data is there like clockwork.

frank70

07-02-09, 07:58 AM

Does having a Host displayed really matter?
Yes it does appear to matter. Not for getting Program Listings, you can get those without the HostChan being displayed. Many of us have seen this.
But it appears that you must have a HostChan displayed (or at least displayed temporarily) in order to acquire a Channel Lineup (Grid).Maybe since Lineup and Timezone packets are sent infrequently, if the Sony goes off searching for a better host channel every day at about the same time, and the Lineup and/or Timezone packets are only being sent during that time, that's the cause of the potentially long (month?) delay.

WS65711

07-02-09, 09:10 AM

Maybe since Lineup and Timezone packets are sent infrequently, if the Sony goes off searching for a better host channel every day at about the same time, and the Lineup and/or Timezone packets are only being sent during that time, that's the cause of the potentially long (month?) delay.

Over the past 12 days, I've averaged eleven LineupPkts per day, and thirteen TimezonePkts per day. I do know that some days I only get a couple, and other days I get more than the average.

In my experience with one unit (twice) and another unit (once) following the "TV Guide Reset to Factory Defaults", the longest delay I've had in getting the Channel Lineup (Grid) back was 6 days. the shortest was 3 days. But then again, in my area we are currently blessed with two OTA Host Channels, CBS and PBS, and the TVGOS data is available from the same Host channels over cable as well. :)

WS65711

07-02-09, 09:28 AM

My experience is that the digital host channel listed in the 753... screens will come and go (may be listed in physical-channel or virtual-channel format), but its presence or absence from that screen in no way affects the ability of the unit to download TVGOS data from that host.

I think it just goes on a search for a better host channel every day or two, and if you just happen to catch it when it's searching, no channel will be listed; nonetheless, every morning the new data is there like clockwork.

Frank -

Have you been able to confirm that the "Host Channel" column on your ATSC-Slicer page still updates while the HostChan field is blank? I haven't been able to confirm this on mine, due to the fact that the HostChan comes and goes without calling my cellphone to let me know . . . :D
But indications are that mine does not update the Host Channel column while the HostChan field is blank.

Note: To my knowledge, my Mits TV with V-9 TVGOS has not lost its HostChan at all since acquiring the digital Host after June 12th. Prior to June 12th it was using an analog host, even though CBS digital had been available for quite some time. I don't know how or if this relates in any way to what the Sony's are doing.

trumpace

07-02-09, 09:32 AM

AtlantisMichael

07-02-09, 02:55 PM

The new digital Host or the old analog Host? If it still shows the old analog Host you may want to do a temporary zipcode change and then back to your proper zipcode in order to blank out the old analog Host setting. This should help it to find the new digital Host faster. Doing this won't cause you to lose your Grid or Listings.
I can not beleive that you asked this. Must be joking. No analog since the 12th.. and host comes and goes, plus ota only. Always RF 19 as posted several times before. Just was updating operation and fact that I finally got around to the upgrade. Did the upgrade on one unit so I could see what new screens show up compared to the old to the unit without it. If I counted properly, the old firmware unit has 55 screens, give or take counting your recording history and such, while the .21 unit has only 50. How many do you see?
Michael

AtlantisMichael

07-02-09, 03:07 PM

Hope that you can help.

I was getting a grid and partial listings before I installed the sony firmware update al;though I had no host channel listed.
After I iinstalled the new firmware I lost the grid and the listings and my clock was incorrect.

I spoke to a woman named Alec on the sony support (?) line and she told me to do a
factory default reset and then keep the box turned off for 30 hours. I asked her if doing so
would overwrite the firmware update and she said NO. She lied. It did indeed wipe the
update so I was forced to reinstall it. After being turned off for 30 hours all that I accomplished was to have my clock corrected. Still no grid, no listings, no host channel.

I've run the VBI Search Current Channel command for 2 successive days with no results.
Still no grid, no listings and no host channel, although I do get the ads and my clock is now correct.
Any suggestions would be most welcome. I don't want to go back to the sony suppport line unless I have to.

Thanks,

Larry
OTA Only
Local CBS - 2.1
From the discussions here and what I have seen with my two units, the host channel showing or not in the 753... screens does not seem to matter all that much. If you were getting only partial listings before, then perhaps a check with your local host station is in order. Maybe they are having some issues?
Getting ads and current is a good sign though. Under my digital .21, the VBI test fails, but with the old .05, it passes. So the VBI test, also, should not be of concern.
As far as the grid building, read back to some of the older post. I have seen from 3-6 days on up to 28 days(Sony and others) to rebuild/get a grid posted here.
Michael

Alan58

07-02-09, 05:00 PM

Hi Alan58,

I live in Meridian, Idaho as well and I own a dhg-hdd250. Everything was great until the digital transition upon which my guide started showing "no listing" for all 30 minute slots. I upgraded to the new firmware that Sony posted but no luck after 5 days. So I did a "tv guide" reset which basically eliminated my grid and haven't recoverded since.

I called the local CBS station and left a voice mail for the chief engineer -- asking about TV guide data being broadcast with the digital signal -- and haven't heard from him yet.

What is odd is that we have a Tivax digital converter box on another TV. When you press "info" while watching a program the title of the program shows up as well as a brief summary of the show. Is this TV Guide information or is it data that is being broadcast in a different format that is not compatible with the Sony?? When I press "info" on the hdd250 I get the infamous "no listing" title. So I'm confused as to whether we are getting TV guide data in the Boise area or not...

If you have made any progress let me know. Anyone else out there with answers I would really appreciate any help I can get. At this point I am recording manually which is OK but not as nice. Thanks and look forward to hearing from folks.

I think it is different. I talked to Robert at KBCI a few days ago. He has heard that they want CBS to transmit the data but he is not sure how it is going to happen or when. He said getting ahold of the people responsible is almost impossible and they don't answer emails. Not to promising but cross your fingers. I also emailed Macrovision and received this reply today:

Due to the digital transition, there are no analog hosts in Boise, ID area passing our data. Our engineers are working on finding a new broadcast station to host our digital equipment to pass our data. There is no ETA to when data will be passing. Some cable companies are putting our hardware at their head end to insert TVOGS data for their consumers. Please check back with in 60-90 days for an update.

We apologize for the inconvenience.

Let's both keep on them!

frank70

07-02-09, 06:19 PM

Hope that you can help.

I was getting a grid and partial listings before I installed the sony firmware update al;though I had no host channel listed.
After I iinstalled the new firmware I lost the grid and the listings and my clock was incorrect.

I spoke to a woman named Alec on the sony support (?) line and she told me to do a
factory default reset and then keep the box turned off for 30 hours. I asked her if doing so
would overwrite the firmware update and she said NO. She lied. It did indeed wipe the
update so I was forced to reinstall it. After being turned off for 30 hours all that I accomplished was to have my clock corrected. Still no grid, no listings, no host channel.

I've run the VBI Search Current Channel command for 2 successive days with no results.
Still no grid, no listings and no host channel, although I do get the ads and my clock is now correct.
Any suggestions would be most welcome. I don't want to go back to the sony suppport line unless I have to.

Thanks,

Larry
OTA Only
Local CBS - 2.1I was never really gone :)
I have no explanation why some people (including myself) can install the firmware upgrade and lose nothing, while others revert to no grid. I also have no explanation why some people seem to be able to recover from the no-grid situation in a day or two, while others seem to take weeks, even months. And I especially have no explanation why, in this latter case, that one person with two Sony units connected to the same antenna can get a grid on one in short order while the other sits for days on end grid-less. Let's just say that TVGOS on these units is highly unpredictable. To some extent it seems to be related to the TVGOS data being broadcast in a particular market, but that clearly isn't the only story. It perhaps has to do with when (i.e. time of day) a particular unit is latched onto a host, and when it goes off searching for a new one.

Since mine is behaving well, and my wife likes it that way, I have no motivation to experiment. I just lurk here to see how it's going for other folks like yourself, and it seems highly variable.

RobMeyer1

07-02-09, 06:36 PM

Anyone in Albuquerque using a Sony DHG-HDD 250 and able to reset or something and get the TVGOS again?

We are in the same broadcast area. Read my posting from yesterday at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16755612#post16755612

This question was easily answered by reading the posting directly above your posting. If you need help, you will need to provide more info describing your problem.

Terry_L_G

07-02-09, 08:14 PM

I'm in the Bay Area and OTA only. After the transition, I installed the new FW and then mistakenly reset my Sony. I have gotten back to the point of having an accurate clock and ads, TVGOS patched to 08.06.44 but still no host channel and no LineupPkts (on the 753... page).

By the way, if you want to uninstall the FW update, all you have to do is a full Factory Reset. It took my box back to the .13 version of the FW, so I reinstalled the update from Sony to .21. Of course it resets everything, and it clears all recordings:mad:

It's now been almost 2 weeks. I just wondered if maybe there is a problem with transmission of the TVGOS data in this market that is making it so slow to re-sync to a host channel and get a channel lineup so I can get a Grid. I'm generally patient about this stuff, but the built-in message about 24 hours to get a guide is a sad joke. I'm just grateful that it is summer with nothing much that I want to record:p

Has anyone here in the SF Bay Area actually recovered fully from a no data for this screen (no channel lineup) reset? If not, does anybody have an analog video recording of KQED Channel 9 from before the transition that I can borrow to recover the channel lineup:o

Thanks,
Terry

markt2005

07-03-09, 08:52 AM

my unit was working fine until I unplugged it to move it to another tv rack and now when I plugged it back in I'm getting that HDCP handshake problem on most channels "program is not available while hooked up to this HDMI monitor. Change channel or use SD or component output." I tried a different HDMI cable, I tried hooking it up to a different TV and I've tried a factory reset last night and the error is still blacking out my channels. I'm using a Time Warner Cablecard in the back.

E55 KEV

07-03-09, 11:11 AM

I wanted to wait until something did not work on my OTA 250 before doing firmware update. After analog shut down everything was working fine until 3 days ago (June 30) when all listings were gone. My host channel was blank before and after analog shutdown. I still have clock. Washington DC area does have digital CBS TVGOS 9.1.

So, I guess it is time for the 1.2.21 update? Correct? Should I do/try anything else before I do update? Thanks.

Rbrodzinsky

07-03-09, 11:49 AM

I'm in the Bay Area and OTA only. After the transition, I installed the new FW and then mistakenly reset my Sony. I have gotten back to the point of having an accurate clock and ads, TVGOS patched to 08.06.44 but still no host channel and no LineupPkts (on the 753... page).

...

Has anyone here in the SF Bay Area actually recovered fully from a no data for this screen (no channel lineup) reset? If not, does anybody have an analog video recording of KQED Channel 9 from before the transition that I can borrow to recover the channel lineup:o

I still don't have a host channel shown, but have not had any problems receiving TVGOS from 5-1, after I did the zip code reset. But, I never started "from scratch", always maintained my grid.

Since it has clearly updated the TVGOS software, and you are getting ads, you are on your way. You may want to try leaving the unit on and tuned to 5-1 for a day. Might help, might not....

E55 KEV

07-03-09, 12:07 PM

E55 KEV

07-03-09, 12:36 PM

If you know how, go into the 753 screens to see which TVGOS patch version you have. This needs to be version 8.06.44, and will update all by itself. If you're not at that patch level, it will need to update before it can get a HostChan and Grid.

I have not done the .21 update and I have "08.01.42/08.06.04/".:confused: Any thoughts?

AtlantisMichael

07-03-09, 01:43 PM

mabuttra

07-03-09, 02:51 PM

I just went into 9012 menu for first time to see what it says b4 I do .21 update with OTA. I went to host channel CBS 9.1 then Menu/Screen Mode/9012/TV Guide/G* FactoryTest.

I get a Good VBI count but on the left side I states "VBI Test: FAIL". After 10 minutes I have 660 packets. I exited that menu then tried it again and now it states "VBI Test: PASS".

For the last few days I had a grid with "No Listing" for every program. This morning I saw no programming but now I get some listing. Strange. I have some program listings for NBC 4.1 for the next 8 days. HUH!

Since you have the old firmware, this was the right step to take first. I'm pretty sure it will work now. Was this the first time you ever ran the G* Test? It seems you would have had to run it once before to get the digital data working initially. Did you have a power outage recently? That would explain why it stopped working.

This is the problem with the old firmware, because there was no digital data when the Sonys were built, the engineers programmed the firmware to turn off the digital data by default. A G* Test starts the digital data, if it is off. Once the digital data is working, all it takes to kill it is a power outage, or reset, or some other glitch. After which, you have to run the G* Test again to get things working again. This requires that the user monitor things regularly to make sure things are still working right. As you have seen, it is easy to suddenly discover that your data died a week ago, and you don't realize it until it is gone.

The new firmware turns on the digital data by default, so you don't have to worry about whether the digital data is still working or not. It just always is. Therefore any loss of data can generally be attributed to the transmitting station, or macrovision.

Mark

fallingwater

07-03-09, 05:33 PM

trumpace

07-03-09, 05:47 PM

mabuttra

07-03-09, 06:02 PM

Talk about weird. Just turned my box on and lo, there is a grid and listings. A 753 test finally shows a host channel as 0.30-0. The listings show 30 as cable. There is NO cable connected, I am OTA only. Can anyone explain?

Larry
Local CBS 2-1

I think you mean 0:33-0. That is the actual RF channel that 2-1 is broadcast on.

rabittears (http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php) shows display channel 2, and digital channel 33.

Mark

mabuttra

07-03-09, 07:03 PM

I've got three Sony HDD recorders with various firmware versions. None have been upgraded to 1.2.21 and I've never run the G* test. All are receiving digital TVGOS data uneventfully; two from Comcast's virtual ch. 7.1 (actual 110.2) from KIRO-DT, CBS Seattle, and the other OTA from CIVT-DT, CTV Vancouver, BC ch. 32-1.

Why was this uneventful with the older firmware versions? I just performed TVGOS' standard set-up and used a Vancouver postal code for the one using an antenna.

This is good information. I think you may be the first person who has come right out and said that you never ran the G* Test, and everything works fine (and on 3 units). There have been others who implied that they never ran the G* Test, but I was never clear whether they had or not. Something you could check is what host channel is reported by each one (I know you reported where they are getting the data from, but this would be a double check of that). Some cable systems are converting the SCTE-127 data and transmitting it out over an analog channel. If this were the case where you are, your host channel would still be analog, and would explain why you didn't have to do anything to keep your cable units working. I don't know anything about Vancouver, but are they 100% digital now?

Here is my experience. A few months ago, I was playing around with resetting my DVR to see if it would recover. This one time I decided I wasn't going to do anything but the reset, and leave it off for 24 hours. 24 hours later I didn't even have a clock. When I went into the 753 menu, I found that the the 753 menu clock had not even been set, and every field was still 0. I ran the G* Test, and the DVR immediately started coming back to life. I concluded from that one time that the reset had killed the digital processing of TVGOS data, and the G* Test was needed to bring it back to life. The question I couldn't answer back then (and still can't) is, if left off for a longer period of time, would it have eventually woken up? It could be that your units were in a mixed analog/digital environment, and may have been exposed to enough digital data that it woke up the digital side (this is wild speculation).

In the case of E55 KEV, something seems to have happened to his DVR over a week ago, and killed his digital data. The G* Test seems to have brought it back to life (tomorrow he'll know for sure). So for his unit a week apparently wasn't long enough for the digital side to get turned on by itself.

Mark