My day 9 grid usually shows up between 7:00pm and 8:00pm, only filled through 4:00am (presumably a result of the previous night's download), the rest of the grid is No Listing. It doesn't fill in until the overnight download cycle.

I believe day 9 displays when GMT passes midnight of the current day because "day 9" is now day 8 in GMT time. A full day's listings have always been from 4:00am to 4:00am the next day.

Mark -

Can you post or PM your 3 (of 9) HostSUFlags values and descriptions. I've never paid much attention to this field, but in watching it yesterday evening I notice that it changed several times within a few hours timespan. :confused:

When the 753 menu clock sets the first time, after the HostSUFlags is cleared to 0x000 (I drop off the lower 5 digits since they are always 0), the value becomes 0x800.

Then shortly after that (and sometimes before), the Host ID field fills in which is on the same screen as the Host Channel. This sets the bit right next to the "clock set" bit, 0x400.

With both bits set the value is 0xc00.

The next bit over is the TimezonePkt bit. Its value is 0x200.

With all three bits set the value would be 0xe00.

There are 3 bits that usually set before I ever see a timezonePkt, and their bit values are:

0x040
0x020
0x008

All three bits together makes 0x068.

Combine those values with the "clock set" and "Host ID" bits, and you see a value of 0xc68. This is where mine sits for quite a while, waiting on a TimezonePkt, and the other data to arrive.

People who get regular TimezonePkts, will usually see a value of 0xe68.

From that point, there are 3 more bits to set, and they seem to be the ones that cause a lot of the problems, since one, or more of these pieces of data seem to be missing from several data streams across the country.

I hope this helps,

Mark

I believe day 9 displays when GMT passes midnight of the current day because "day 9" is now day 8 in GMT time. A full day's listings have always been from 4:00am to 4:00am the next day.

The day 9 info makes sense. I was going to mention the 4:00am to 4:00am thing too, but I thought that might only apply to central time (I thought in the eastern timezone, the data might fill in through 5:00am, instead of 4:00am).

Mark

I did a Google search for "Sony DHG-HDD250", just for fun. This thread turned up in third position (after a paid entry from Amazon at the top), but it looks like Google read only the first page. The description says "30 posts - 16 authors - Last post: May 15, 2005" :rolleyes:

Two Houston boxes (one mine), will recover to 0xe68 in about 12 hours or less, and then they stop dead in their tracks. Have tried a few wild and crazy kick in the pants since June 29, and gotten a few different responses; but have yet to get past 0xf78. Really does not seem to matter for a non-working box; whether you start from Reset Factory Defaults, soft reset, cold reset, or "00000" (though each are slightly different), you are still left without a Grid. It can take a very long time to get absolutely no where. The last Reset Factory Defaults I have assisted on that did work (period ending June 29), was St. Louis (4-5 days), Dallas (3-4days), and New Orleans (5-7days). Since June 29 have decided not to do any more, until Houston begins working again. Going through a 4th series of test for Houston now.

Surprisingly, the box can progress just as fast on a Non CBS station as any other; perhaps faster. It seems to force the box to search for the digital host more aggressively or more quickly – perhaps. On the ATSC Slicer starting from zero the “Since Cold” begin zooming with large amounts of data while tuned to RF 35 (NBC 2.1). The box was forced to scan (at first and just one time) from RF 35 to 69; then 2 to 11 (RF 11 is local CBS). At 9PM (non TVGOS DL times) the dummy fields on the ATSC slicer page were zooming in from the RF 11 – the box does lock into RF 11 CBS almost instantly for clock.

I have no idea how important HostSUFlags is or is not. I know that you can have virtually any thing in that field and have a perfectly working box, IF you never lost the Grid and Channel Map. I know that you can have 0xff800000 for over a week and still have No “Host ID” set; and if there was a Grid before and after that time, you will still have a perfectly working box. Again I think this just comes back to the inaccuracies in the information screens; that is, what is happening or not in the box may or may not be accurately reported on those screens. To me; I am just saying I do not know (or care) how important Host ID is or is not. All that is important is the Grid and Channel Map regardless of how you get there.

Last Friday I left some detail messages for Microvision (ravio?who), and Houston did get in and out some HostID. Yesterday I called again, with much greater detail – have no idea what the response may be?

I have no idea how important HostSUFlags is or is not. I know that you can have virtually any thing in that field and have a perfectly working box, IF you never lost the Grid and Channel Map. I know that you can have 0xff800000 for over a week and still have No “Host ID” set; and if there was a Grid before and after that time, you will still have a perfectly working box.
[...]


HoustonPerson, you need to work on your terminology... Are you talking about the Host ID, or Host Channel, they are two completely different things. I'll assume you meant Host Channel, when you used Host ID. Your description of talking to macrovision, and something about an in and out Host ID, you completely lost me on.

I would like anyone to prove HoustonPerson's statement that you can have a HostSUFlags value of 0xff800000, and also have a blank host channel (or a Host ID of 0x0?), because I think this is wrong. Please post pictures of a blank host channel, with a HostSUFlags value of 0xff800000, I would really like to see this happen (and it can't be two pictures taken a day or two apart ;)).

Mark

Since there are at least two other members that are Mits DLP owners, Mits is sending me another firmware upgrade. Apparently, what I was sent months ago, was the wrong version.

HoustonPerson, you need to work on your terminology... Are you talking about the Host ID, or Host Channel, they are two completely different things. I'll assume you meant Host Channel, when you used Host ID. Your description of talking to macrovision, and something about an in and out Host ID, you completely lost me on.

I would like anyone to prove HoustonPerson's statement that you can have a HostSUFlags value of 0xff800000, and also have a blank host channel (or a Host ID of 0x0?), because I think this is wrong. Please post pictures of a blank host channel, with a HostSUFlags value of 0xff800000, I would really like to see this happen (and it can't be two pictures taken a day or two apart ;)).

Mark


Sorry I get those backwards all the time.

Host Channel is the blank one.

Pic 7184 and 7186 May 31st analogue mode

Pic 7188 June 1st to June 5th Digital mode, No HostChannel was set – blank. And nothing in the Host Column on ATSC slicer page. When my box and the other one in Houston is in digital mode (pre and post transition) the Host Channel has always been blank.

Pic 7215 Local TVGOS going into “dead mode”

Pic 7224 Local TVGOS “alive mode” again.

Pic 7226 and 7227 No HostChannel; but “Alive mode” with bfirst and bpkts


What I meant about the Host coming and going was last weekend in Houston. There were changes taking place at my house (I thought the box was going to fix itself but did not) and at KWG mentioned something about host channel (or ID) setting, and then went away?

remaining pics

FYI to those near Canada. Sometime in the last few days all the analog stations were set to off and are now at the 480th or so position in the list. Canada will be analog until 2011(?). I turned CBET ch 9 back on and received listings overnight.

August 2011 Canada analog goes dark.

Sorry I get those backwards all the time.

Host Channel is the blank one.

Pic 7184 and 7186 May 31st analogue mode

Pic 7188 June 1st to June 5th Digital mode, No HostChannel was set – blank. And nothing in the Host Column on ATSC slicer page. When my box and the other one in Houston is in digital mode (pre and post transition) the Host Channel has always been blank.

Pic 7215 Local TVGOS going into “dead mode”

Pic 7224 Local TVGOS “alive mode” again.

Pic 7226 and 7227 No HostChannel; but “Alive mode” with bfirst and bpkts


What I meant about the Host coming and going was last weekend in Houston. There were changes taking place at my house (I thought the box was going to fix itself but did not) and at KWG mentioned something about host channel (or ID) setting, and then went away?

I think you missed the point. You said you have seen a blank host channel with the HostSUFlags showing as 0xff800000. I said I'd like to see a picture of anyone's DHG where that is the case. You posted several pictures (two would have sufficed), but none of them, show this condition. The only blank host channel you show is from June 16. The only HostSUFlags = 0xff800000 picture you posted was from June 1. A picture from the day before did show an analog host channel set. I also should have limited the timeframe to since June 12, although it shouldn't matter. It is just that in the mixed analog/digital environment, there was too much weird stuff happening.

Mark

I think you missed the point. You said you have seen a blank host channel with the HostSUFlags showing as 0xff800000. I said I'd like to see a picture of anyone's DHG where that is the case. You posted several pictures (two would have sufficed), but none of them, show this condition. The only blank host channel you show is from June 16. The only HostSUFlags = 0xff800000 picture you posted was from June 1. A picture from the day before did show an analog host channel set. I also should have limited the timeframe to since June 12, although it shouldn't matter. It is just that in the mixed analog/digital environment, there was too much weird stuff happening.

Mark

look at pic 7188. it was 0xff8 for 5-7 days with host channel blank. It had always been blank. Any time pre and post transition it was "always" blank except when it was analogue..........it is still blank. the only reason I post the days before was to show the analogue, it when it had a host channel analogue. I never took pictures of the blank on the same day, was never relevant, and it’s not relevant now.

Never mind, my point is not getting across.

I was attempting to provide evidence to mabuttra that I've had updates in my Host Channel columns while not having a HostChan displayed. Well, I didn't succeed in proving that because while I was checking (and hoping to actually see live updates) my HostChan actually "decided" to display itself again, the last time it had set up until this was on July 8th. I don't have a picture showing the "blank" HostChan field because I didn't take a photo. I wasn't expecting to need one, I wasn't expecting it to become "displayed" while I was in the midst of my checking . . .

This photo shows the ATSC-Slicer screen, notice the time . . .
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=147985&d=1247864383

This photo shows the VBI-Data screen, again notice the time, the LastASetEnd field, and the HostSUFlags field . . .
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=147986&d=1247864383

This photo shows the Section-Reception, notice the time once more . . .
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=147987&d=1247864383

This photo shows the ATSC-Slicer screen again after the Host column began to update, notice the time . . .
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=147988&d=1247864418

This photo shows the VBI-Data screen again after the Host Channel column, notice the time, the LastASetEnd field, and the HostSUFlags field . . .
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=147989&d=1247864418

Notice that HostSUFlags is at 0xff800000 in the last photo above. On 7/15 when I looked at this same DVR this field was at 0xee800000. On 7/16 this field was at oxea800000. In the second photo above the field was again at 0xee800000. Can anyone make any sense of this?

This is the 753 menu "System Statistics" screen showing the HostChan field that displayed while I was taking the photos above.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=147990&d=1247864468


This is the 753 menu "VBI-Data" screen after the HostChan field cleared on 7/21. The photo was taken on 7/22/09.
Compare the values in the fields LastSrchSt, LastSrchEnd, and NumSearch in this picture to the values in the same fields in the picture in the other post above this one.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=148387&d=1248306889

.

Click on the link below to see live updating Host Channel column values with your own two eyes . . . .
(Note: This is a 3.7mb Quicktime video file)

http://home.att.net/~pix/AVS/HostColumnUpdating.MOV

.

So Mark, you may be right in that the Host Channel column will only update while a HostChan is displayed in the field. But I don't know just when the HostChan displayed in the field today during the ten minutes or so that I was checking. I only know that it wasn't displayed when I started, and it was displayed when I finished. But in the past I feel pretty certain that I've seen the Host Channel column update when there was no HostChan displayed.

.

I was attempting to provide evidence to mabuttra that I've had updates in my Host Channel columns while not having a HostChan displayed. Well, I didn't succeed in proving that because while I was checking (and hoping to actually see live updates) my HostChan actually "decided" to display itself again, the last time it had set up until this was on July 8th. I don't have a picture showing the "blank" HostChan field because I didn't take a photo. I wasn't expecting to need one, I wasn't expecting it to become "displayed" while I was in the midst of my checking . . .

[...]

Notice that HostSUFlags is at 0xff800000 in the last photo above. On 7/15 when I looked at this same DVR this field was at 0xee800000. On 7/16 this field was at oxea800000. In the second photo above the field was again at 0xee800000. Can anyone make any sense of this?

Absolutlely amazing!! I was going to argue with HoustonPerson some more ;), but the two pictures of the VBI Data screen tells the story better than I could. HostSUFlags 0xee8, No Host Channel, then HostSUFlags 0xff8, and Host Channel set. I rest my case. :)

Here is all I can tell (and it isn't much), on July 16 for whatever reason one of the bits that was set the previous day, was cleared taking the middle digit from e back to a. Then today it had set again. This left two more bits to set, and they both set during the time you had the DVR on.

This also answers another question that has been asked in the past. Can your host channel set if your DVR is on, and tuned to your host channel? I'd say the answer is yes! :p

Mark

So Mark, you may be right in that the Host Channel column will only update while a HostChan is displayed in the field. But I don't know just when the HostChan displayed in the field today during the ten minutes or so that I was checking. I only know that it wasn't displayed when I started, and it was displayed when I finished. But in the past I feel pretty certain that I've seen the Host Channel column update when there was no HostChan displayed.


One thing I find odd is that when you took the first picture of the ATSC slicer screen, you only had a little over 40 TVG HostChan packets, is that all the packets that you got before the host channel blanked? As a contrast I attached a picture of my ATSC slicer screen. The HostChan column updated for 3 days until the host channel blanked yesterday. I received over 300000 TVG packets in 3 days.

Mark

[b]
This also answers another question that has been asked in the past. Can your host channel set if your DVR is on, and tuned to your host channel? I'd say the answer is yes! :p


Yes definitely. I only wish that I had taken a picture of the System Statistics screen when I started. I didn't because I didn't think I needed it. I wasn't expecting it to change while I was watching . . .

I only started out to take some pictures to record the Host column counts for my own reference, to compare to current values later and to tell you that they updated while not having a hostchan displayed. But I exited the 753 menu several times to change the channel, because I wasn't sure which of my four TVGOS choices had been set as the HostChan last. I knew that if there was any chance at all of seeing it update "live", I would have to be tuned to the Host channel. I started with CBS OTA, then PBS OTA, next was CBS QAM and bingo! The Host Channel column started to update. I thought to myself "you see, I'm right (as usual)". But then when I went to take a picture of the System Statistics screen as "proof", the HostChan was displayed . . .
Then I looked back at HostSUFlags and it had changed as well . . .

One thing I find odd is that when you took the first picture of the ATSC slicer screen, you only had a little over 40 TVG HostChan packets, is that all the packets that you got before the host channel blanked?


I dunno. I know that this particular unit had last set a HostChan on July 8th, per the LastASetEnd date in the picture. But I don't know when it went away. We have had some thunderstorms and power blips, but no outage. I have seen very large numbers in my Host Channel columns before, but maybe in my other units and maybe not this one.

So again, I dunno . . . :confused:

I just went and took a peek at one of my other units. It is displaying CBS OTA (physical channel number) as the Hostchan, and it picked it up on 7/15 according to LastASetEnd. some of the values in it's Host Column exceed 700000. Go figure . . .

Absolutlely amazing!! I was going to argue with HoustonPerson some more ;), but the two pictures of the VBI Data screen tells the story better than I could. HostSUFlags 0xee8, No Host Channel, then HostSUFlags 0xff8, and Host Channel set. I rest my case. :)


Mark

No reason to argue with me at all; you missed entirely the point I was trying to make (no I don’t have the picture of “no” host channel). The point I was making is the HostSUFlags of 0xff800000 is not necessarily related to the fact you have Host Channel or not – at least it never has been in Houston and a few other cities. Additionally you can still have a perfectly working box without Host Channel being set on the info screens. In addition to HostSUFlag being 0xff8 it can also be almost anything else, and Host Channel column blank, and you can still have a box that functions correctly. The second point I was trying to make is to identify the real parts of data on the information screen that “do” assure a Grid and Channel Map. So far those elements have not been identified, and it may not be presented on the info screens anyway.

No reason to argue with me at all; you missed entirely the point I was trying to make (no I don’t have the picture of “no” host channel). The point I was making is the HostSUFlags of 0xff800000 is not necessarily related to the fact you have Host Channel or not – at least it never has been in Houston and a few other cities.


I disagree, there is a direct correlation to the value of your HostSUFlags, and whether your host channel is set or not. However, the HostSUFlags is only important to watch when you are trying to acquire a grid. If you never see a value of 0xff800000, your host channel will never set, and you will never get a grid.


Additionally you can still have a perfectly working box without Host Channel being set on the info screens. In addition to HostSUFlag being 0xff8 it can also be almost anything else, and Host Channel column blank, and you can still have a box that functions correctly.


This is correct.


The second point I was trying to make is to identify the real parts of data on the information screen that “do” assure a Grid and Channel Map. So far those elements have not been identified, and it may not be presented on the info screens anyway.


Yes, and I basically told videobruce the same thing 2 days ago.

We only disagree on one of 3 points. :)
Mark

Hello,

I am in Las Vegas NV. I have HDD 250 OTA only. I have been waiting for a grid (second times) about ten days now after a soft reset, change zip to 00000 and back to 89117 and still waiting for a grid. Any one know if CBS (host chan) transmitting data to this area?

kwg, WS65.., Mark - I have no host chanel (blank) on "section system-statistic" and all zeros down on the HostChan coloum on "ATSC slicer screen". Is this mean I have to wait for it? Or, what do I have to do to obtain one? Thanks.

Tim

freepc -

Have you installed the firmware upgrade to V-1.2.21 ???

If not, I would install the firmware update first, and get that behind you. Then when you enter the 753 menu, look at the System Statistics screen to see what TVGOS patch level you are at. Ultimately you need to get to 8.06.44 (if need be, this will update on its own... but it may take a day or two). Tune to your CBS station and look at the ATSC-Slicer screen in the 753 menu. Do you see any values incrementing in the Host Channel column? If not, wait a while and try again. If you still don't see any incrementing values, then try your PBS station. Hopefully one of the two is transmitting TVGOS data. Maybe someone else in the Las Vegas area can chime in and let us know . . .

freepc,

KLAS-TV 8 (CBS) is supposed to be broadcasting TVGOS data in Las Vegas. http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos

No Grid and Station Pkts

For those that have a No Grid (No Channel Map) environment: The Station Pkts count may be one of the missing requirement(s) to build a Grid with Channel Map and progress to a high enough HostSUFLags to make the box work (i.e. 0xff800000).

This may also be or not be related to Data Flow rate. Different markets do have different flow rates for different elements within the downloads. For example TimezonePkts and LineupPkts can be quite high in Houston; but StationPkts is painfully slow, as little as 1 or 2 per day.

It appears (not proven) that StationPkts may need to exceed the number of stations for your Grid within your market. For Houston that would mean the number would have to exceed about 515 stations to build the Grid Layout.

Last weekend changes in Houston: Late Friday, local CBS/TVGOS made changes again in data flow rate of various elements. TimezonePkts and LineupPkts slowed down and perhaps Stationpkts increased very slightly. For a about 12 hours (Friday night to Saturday morning) HostSUFlags stayed at 0xf28, then within a couple of hours mid-morning Saturday it went all the way to 0xf78. This is the first time it has reached that level on its “own” since Restore Factory Defaults.

Stationpkts is still at a relatively low level (less than 100). It may need to reach above 515 in order to build a Grid with Channel Map and for HostSUFlags to progress.

Naturally, if you have a Grid with Channel Map, the above discussion does not apply.

If anyone has recovered from a Reset Factory Defaults, do you know the approximate number of StationPkt count achieved?

July 31st, No Grid, and $20 Insurance

As most know, if you do not have a Grid with Channel Map; but you do have essentially all other data components to receive channel listings, programs, and schedules; then a DTV converter box that supports TVGOS is the best bet to make your Sony Box work again. It is a bet, it’s not a guarantee.

Currently, it appears there are two DTV Converter boxes that meet those requirements:

Artec
http://www.artectv.com/ehtm/products/t3aprt.htm

http://207.210.85.226/~artectv/Service_e/nl/downloads/user_manuals/T3APR-T//T3APR-T.pdf


DTVPal
http://www.dishnetwork.com/dtvpal/downloads/159336_AA_text_withcover.pdf

The DTVPal has been on the market for some time, and the Artec Model is relatively new. When you locate the manual for each, and go the TVGOS section you will notice they are each almost identical, and function essentially the same way. Both models “act” as a cable box to Build-a-Grid. (use that method even if you are OTA only).

A few have already reported success in building a Grid for the Sony DVR using the DTVPal product. I do not think anyone has completed testing yet for the Artec product with the Sony DVR, I suppose because it is so new?

Each of those DTV converter boxes retails for about $60, and each qualifies for the $40 rebate coupon. Thus making you net cost just $20 – that is pretty cheap insurance – to build a Grid in a No Grid environment.

Here is the catch, you have only till July 31st to order a coupon from the Government, at which time the program is discontinued. The coupon is valid for 90 days.

No Grid and Station Pkts

If anyone has recovered from a Reset Factory Defaults, do you know the approximate number of StationPkt count achieved?

In the 4th picture in my post below from June 18th, I had 73 StationPkts and a Channel Lineup (Grid). My total number of stations available is 421 as shown on the last picture as "Available".

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16678751&postcount=17694

In the 4th picture in my post below from June 18th, I had 73 StationPkts and a Channel Lineup (Grid). My total number of stations available is 421 as shown on the last picture as "Available".

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16678751&postcount=17694

Yours is cable selected? I was looking for No Grid to Grid.

HoustonPerson, the post I linked to was from "TV Guide Reset to Factory Defaults" to a Grid. The Grid appeared on June 18th, immediately following my response to the question "Select Cable System" posed to me by the DVR. The pictures were taken immediately at that time, just as soon as I could get my hands on the camera.

Compare the "StationPkt" count displayed in picture 4 to the "Available" count in the last picture. That is exactly the comparison you asked for, under the exact conditions you asked for. Read the text of the post.

Please forgive my lack of following this closely, but do I understand correctly that in some TV markets, TVGOS & the Sony HD DVR's work correctly, and in others do not?

Ken -

Yes, that is the case. Some markets (like mine :)) have all the pieces in place, while other markets seem to be lacking some piece (or pieces) necessary to build a Channel Lineup (Grid). Every market that has a TVGOS host station seem to be able to provide Listings to the Sony's, provided they have a Grid. but if the Grid is lost by a reset or other means, Sony's in some markets are currently unable to re-acquire the Grid.

In my case, I have successfully re-acquired the Grid three times since the analog cutoff. (No, I don't do this just for fun!) I reset one of my units intentionally once to see if it could be done, then again once by accident. And I helped a friend in my area get a Grid on a unit he had just bought from a distant forum member. Acquiring the Grid in my experience has taken from 3 to 6 days. Others have acquired the Grid in as little as about a day and a half, and still others have taken much longer (like weeks).

I remember that you had contact with someone with (apparently) inside knowledge of the workings of TVGOS. Maybe you could get that person to explain for us the 9-bits in the field called "HostSUFlags" in the TVGOS diagnostics screens? The current thinking is that nine bits must be set in order to establish a Host Channel, and thus a Grid. We think we know what three of the these bits represent, but the other six are a mystery. Can you help us out here?

Ken -

Yes, that is the case. Some markets (like mine :)) have all the pieces in place, while other markets seem to be lacking some piece (or pieces) necessary to build a Channel Lineup (Grid). Every market that has a TVGOS host station seem to be able to provide Listings to the Sony's, provided they have a Grid. but if the Grid is lost by a reset or other means, Sony's in some markets are not currently able to re-acquire the Grid.

In my case, I have successfully re-acquired the Grid three times since the analog cutoff. (No, I don't do this just for fun!) I reset on of my units intentionally once to see if it could be done, then again once by accident. And I helped a friend in my area get a Grid on a unit he had just bought from a distant forum member. Acquiring the Grid in my experience has taken from 3 to 6 days. Others have acquired the Grid in as little as about a day and a half, and still others have taken much longer (like weeks).

Thanks for the update. I've put out a few feelers, if I learn anything I'll post.

I am in a predicament which requires me to try and use the DTVPal to obtain guide listings. I was previously getting listings through cable on digital CBS. For some reason my cable company stopped passing TVGOS data about 1 week ago. Both my Ver 8 DVR and Ver 9 TV stopped populating listings. I also have antenna connected to the DVR, but the built in tuner is unable to tune CBS due to a weak or multipath signal. My DTVPal has no problem tuning OTA CBS.

Last night I connected my DTVPal to the antenna input of my DVR. I followed jtbell's (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16808127&highlight=#post16808127) procedure to set-up the DTVPal into "TV Guide" mode. I performed a G* Test and verified I was receiving VBI packets from the channel 3 output of the DTVPal. Since I already have a grid, I didn't want to "Reset to Factory Default" and end up in a worse situation. I am hoping that the Sony will find and use Channel 3 output from the DTVPal on its own automatically. I will post my results.

HoustonPerson, the post I linked to was from "TV Guide Reset to Factory Defaults" to a Grid. The Grid appeared on June 18th, immediately following my response to the question "Select Cable System" posed to me by the DVR. The pictures were taken immediately at that time, just as soon as I could get my hands on the camera.

Compare the "StationPkt" count displayed in picture 4 to the "Available" count in the last picture. That is exactly the comparison you asked for, under the exact conditions you asked for. Read the text of the post.

I was really looking for a post transition No Grid to Full Grid OTA only.

Your post indicated you “selected cable”?

All the digital sources I had seen, had full listings – so the “no listings” is confusing? That is different from three other markets that have recovered from Reset Factory Defaults. But since data flow rates are different in each city, I could understand that.

In two places, you indicated you "selected cable system"? Sorry I do not understand what you are saying.

At long last I finally got a reply to my email to WCBS-TV.

Here it is:

Larry
The TV Guide encoder went belly up.
TV Guide is here trying to repair the issue.
We thank you for your patience.
Jeffrey Birch

That takes a big load off my mind and should for you guys in this area who have been
having VBI packet problems,

Larry
Hey thanks for update I lost my listings on 7-14 and havent had a successful download as of yet but good to know cable co. is working on problem.

I am in a predicament which requires me to try and use the DTVPal to obtain guide listings. I was previously getting listings through cable on digital CBS. For some reason my cable company stopped passing TVGOS data about 1 week ago. Both my Ver 8 DVR and Ver 9 TV stopped populating listings. I also have antenna connected to the DVR, but the built in tuner is unable to tune CBS due to a weak or multipath signal. My DTVPal has no problem tuning OTA CBS.

Last night I connected my DTVPal to the antenna input of my DVR. I followed jtbell's (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16808127&highlight=#post16808127) procedure to set-up the DTVPal into "TV Guide" mode. I performed a G* Test and verified I was receiving VBI packets from the channel 3 output of the DTVPal. Since I already have a grid, I didn't want to "Reset to Factory Default" and end up in a worse situation. I am hoping that the Sony will find and use Channel 3 output from the DTVPal on its own automatically. I will post my results.

A word of warning, since the SCTE-127 data is no longer coming from cable, it could be a CBS station problem, and if it is, the DTVPal will probably have the same problem. Try the DTVPal, but I'd also try to find out why the cable data is not being passed. If the DTVPal doesn't get data either, I'd call your CBS station and let them know there is a problem.

Mark

In two places, you indicated you "selected cable system"? Sorry I do not understand what you are saying.

When you set up the DVR, you are asked to choose if you are connected to Cable. You answer "Yes" or "No. You are also asked to choose if you are connected to an antenna. Again you answer "Yes" or "No". Then it asks you something about a VCR, where I always choose "no".

Then, after the prescribed period of waiting, and being looked upon fondly by the TVGOS gods, you will be presented with a Channel Lineup (Grid). IF (like me) your area is one that may be covered by MORE THAN ONE cable system, PRIOR to being presented with the Grid the DVR will display multiple choices of available Cable systems serving your area, and you will be asked to choose the correct one. After you make that selection the Grid pops up immediately, and shortly after that it begins to fill in with Listings.

Does it make sense now? :)

I was really looking for a post transition No Grid to Full Grid OTA only.

Your post indicated you “selected cable”


Ok, since WS65711 responded, I wasn't going to respond, but since you don't like his data, then here is mine...
From this picture (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=147754&d=1247530859) I had received 67 StationPkts when my host channel set last time (from a Reset To Factory Defaults).


All the digital sources I had seen, had full listings – so the “no listings” is confusing? That is different from three other markets that have recovered from Reset Factory Defaults.

After a recovery from 'Reset To Factory Defaults', the grid starts with all 'No Listings' (remember 100% of show, descr, etc. packets are rejected when trying to recover a grid). What probably happened is that the grid showed up over night, and was filled in by morning.

Onto another subject...
Looking at your HostSUFlag values, yours have consistently shown 1 missing bit that I haven't seen set in any of the information that you have posted since 6/12. If you ever see the second digit go above 7, I believe you will have your grid. It is currently '7', so the next stop is 'f'.

Mark

...................... What probably happened is that the grid showed up over night, and was filled in by morning.


And if you have to choose from more than one potential Cable System (as I do) the Listings do not begin to actually fill-in until after that choice is made.

When you set up the DVR, you are asked to choose if you are connected to Cable. You answer "Yes" or "No. You are also asked to choose if you are connected to an antenna. Again you answer "Yes" or "No". Then it asks you something about a VCR, where I always choose "no".

Then, after the prescribed period of waiting, and being looked upon fondly by the TVGOS gods, you will be presented with a Channel Lineup (Grid). IF (like me) your area is one that may be covered by MORE THAN ONE cable system, PRIOR to being presented with the Grid the DVR will display multiple choices of available Cable systems serving your area, and you will be asked to choose the correct one. After you make that selection the Grid pops up immediately, and shortly after that it begins to fill in with Listings.

Does it make sense now? :)

1. Ok, you said "yes" to cable under TVGOS set up

2. then when asked you selected you cable provider.

3. then the Grid popped up immediately (hense the "No Listings")

A word of warning, since the SCTE-127 data is no longer coming from cable, it could be a CBS station problem, and if it is, the DTVPal will probably have the same problem. Try the DTVPal, but I'd also try to find out why the cable data is not being passed. If the DTVPal doesn't get data either, I'd call your CBS station and let them know there is a problem.

Mark

I have considered it may be a CBS problem. Last week they removed their old VHF (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16813448&highlight=#post16813448) antenna and moved their digital UHF antenna to the top of the tower (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16844245#post16844245). This was about the same time I stopped getting listings, but I am unsure if this is related. Anyone else in the Seattle area not getting listings?

...snip...

Combine those values with the "clock set" and "Host ID" bits, and you see a value of 0xc68. This is where mine sits for quite a while, waiting on a TimezonePkt, and the other data to arrive.

People who get regular TimezonePkts, will usually see a value of 0xe68.

From that point, there are 3 more bits to set, and they seem to be the ones that cause a lot of the problems, since one, or more of these pieces of data seem to be missing from several data streams across the country.

I hope this helps,

Mark

Mark, I was too lazy to go back and see if you had mentioned 0xee8. When my units blank out the host they go to 0xc68. Over the weekend I was watching them and they both received timezone packets long before they actually set the host again. During that time the SetUpFlag was 0xee8. Since I've never lost the channel lineup (knock on wood) I guess it means "have timezone, have grid, waiting for host". :D

I have considered it may be a CBS problem. Last week they removed their old VHF (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16813448&highlight=#post16813448) antenna and moved their digital UHF antenna to the top of the tower (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16844245#post16844245). This was about the same time I stopped getting listings, but I am unsure if this is related. Anyone else in the Seattle area not getting listings?
if you're seeing vbi in the G* test, then it's probably they are still sending TVGOS...in any case, I did a test with my Pal output joined into the antenna input to my Sony, and the Sony latched onto 3 as the host channel pretty quickly, though I should add that my Sony at the time had a blank host channel field (as it has had since May or June).

Anyway, I'd say there's a good chance this will work for you. assuming the vbi you are seeing are carrying TVGOS...(I wish I could say the same for my v7 LG 3410a, which has still not accepted a single listing from the Pal)

Any Wash DC metro users having issues with WUSA-DT vbi/atsc packets? I'm running the older firmware but over the weekend (checked Sat and Sun) not receiving VBI packets when I run the G* test. My schedule is only out till Wed. Time is setting itself correctly. It's been working fine over the past few months. Anyone else having the issue? (btw I'm FIOS cablecard)

(btw I'm FIOS cablecard)

Can't answer your question but may I ask one of you- and anyone else who uses FIOS with a cablecard.

FIOS will soon be available to us. I understand that FIOS does not transmit TVGOS data. Does everyone who uses FIOS also use an antenna to get the guide OTA?

Mark, I was too lazy to go back and see if you had mentioned 0xee8.


I haven't mentioned 0xee8, but I have seen it several times, just one of the places it may pause at when trying to set the host channel.


When my units blank out the host they go to 0xc68.


It's my theory (I haven't caught it yet) that when your host channel blanks out, the HostSUFlags actually clears to 0x000, but it doesn't take very long to go from there to 0xc68 which is why it seems like that is the starting value.


Over the weekend I was watching them and they both received timezone packets long before they actually set the host again. During that time the SetUpFlag was 0xee8. Since I've never lost the channel lineup (knock on wood) I guess it means "have timezone, have grid, waiting for host". :D

If you look at these two pictures (here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=147986&d=1247864383), and here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=147989&d=1247864418)) that WS65711 posted the other day, you can see 0xee8 is where his was just before his host channel set making it 0xff8. It always seems like those last 2 bits set simultaneously, but once again, I haven't seen them actually set.

Mark

My host left again in the last 24 hours. Right now, HostSUFlags = 0xd78.

Opinionated,

I've had FIOS for ~ 1 month and have had mixed results. My Sony tv is getting the TVGOS listings with no problem. I have both 250 and 500 units with cable cards installed and I have had to force them to acquire a digital host a few times. The 250 is currently working fine but the 500 has the time off by 4 hours with the guide info off by the same amount of time (clock says 3 AM, guide says 11PM news in the 3AM time slot) so the wife has been able to select a show and record it even with the time being wrong. I have the zip code correct so I don't know what is going on. I'm considering installing an antenna just to get the time and listings correct. Anyone have any thoughts what is causing this?

Teeitup - I'm south of Seattle and have a full 8 days of listings...

Picked up one of these at a swap meet for $20.00, it had no power cord or remote. Trying to find a cord to power it up and test. Does anyone know if TV Guide EPG is still available/active? I have Cox digital in Phoenix, Az.

,

I've had FIOS for ~ 1 month and have had mixed results. My Sony tv is getting the TVGOS listings with no problem. I have both 250 and 500 units with cable cards installed and I have had to force them to acquire a digital host a few times.

You found a working host channel on the FIOS feed that the SONY can acquire through a cablecard?

With FIOS being all digital, that host would also have to be digital I assume. Are you getting this with the .21 firmware- at least where its working on the 250.

Has anyone been able to find a new training manual for TVGOS for the digital system?
I Emailed and then called Sony, but they were of no help what so ever.
Michael

You found a working host channel on the FIOS feed that the SONY can acquire through a cablecard?

As I've mentioned I was working fine (other than the occasionally VBI test to get things synced again) with FIOS via cablecard but firmware 1.2.06. Receiving unencumbered the local digital WUSA-DT CBS which was being passed with VBI information. Having issues with it the past week but makes me think it might be a WUSA-DT issue. Want some feedback from local DC metro users to see if they are getting the TVGOS data within the past few days either OTA/cablecard with WUSA-DT?

Picked up one of these at a swap meet for $20.00, it had no power cord or remote. Trying to find a cord to power it up and test. Does anyone know if TV Guide EPG is still available/active? I have Cox digital in Phoenix, Az.

Someone on spiffspace, who is OTA in Phoenix, was having trouble getting a grid. However, if you go to this (http://digitaltransition.macrovision.com/digtrans.aspx) site, and enter your zip code, and select Cox, they are supposedly passing the SCTE-127 data, so you should be able to get a grid from cable.

Mark

Please forgive my lack of following this closely, but do I understand correctly that in some TV markets, TVGOS & the Sony HD DVR's work correctly, and in others do not?

Yes, in San Diego TVGOS has worked without fail through both the Feb and June transition dates.

The chief reason is that XETV (aka CW) ch 6 analog and XETVDT ch 6.1 digital transmit TVGOS data and TW CATV passes this along.
All my TVGOS capable devices here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15891741&postcount=18
have continued to receive TVGOS, although now from Ch 6 analog cable.

My HDD250 locks to XETV analog cable TVGOS. This station is located in Mexico and is expected to continue analog transmission through 2012.

A check with TSreader shows TVGOS TVG1 and TVG2 present on XETV 6.1 OTA and XETV 6.1 cable, but the Sony preference for analog continues, even though the S/W update is installed.

Just lucky for me.

Picked up one of these at a swap meet for $20.00, it had no power cord or remote. Trying to find a cord to power it up and test. Does anyone know if TV Guide EPG is still available/active? I have Cox digital in Phoenix, Az.

Several more questions about this device. Is the firmware updatable? How is it done and where would i get the update?
What is the hard drive format; Pata or Sata? Can a 500gb be easily swapped in place of the 250gb?

Several more questions about this device. Is the firmware updatable? How is it done and where would i get the update?


http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-list.pl?mdl=DHGHDD500



What is the hard drive format; Pata or Sata? Can a 500gb be easily swapped in place of the 250gb?

No. It can't be done. If the drive dies, the unit needs to go to Sony.

Several more questions about this device. Is the firmware updatable? How is it done and where would i get the update?
What is the hard drive format; Pata or Sata? Can a 500gb be easily swapped in place of the 250gb?
For the firmware:
http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=151.0

It's Pata, more answers here:
http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.0

What WS65711 said is true...

Just as my HDD 250's were settling down after transition, both had time and full grids. All was good.:)

It was not to last.:mad:

My upstairs unit somehow reset itself (!) and I lost listings, grid and clock.:confused:

My Downstairs unit has all listings, grid and clock.

My wife reported that she was watching one show. Normally, the unit will record that show, stop, shut off, and then record the next show. This time, it recorded show A, and then instead of shutting off, and then turning on to record show B, it went through the whole reboot, with Welcome.... and then the numerical count. The clock went away.

She's not at all into how this infernal device works or does not, and would never attempt to reset it.

I'm OTA only in the NY DMA, and both units are hooked up to the same antenna with equal and very good signal strength.

I did nothing to either unit. They are both .21.

In the three or so years I had these things, I've never seen a spontaneous reboot, especially with a loss of the grid. I've wiped both units via spiffspace in the past, but not for quite some time-they worked so why mess with it, and I had survived transition day.

Any ideas ? I still don't have a clock and I did the "unplug it" reset yesterday. It normally gets clock back quickly, but not now. While I have no listings, I do have ads with TVGOS, so something is coming in.

I've never had such a buggy consumer device. It makes my ham radios look like marvels of easy to understand engineering.

WS65711 and drm 2295,

Upgraded to .21 new firmware about a month now. I did the zip code change and back to current zip code and been waited for two weeks now. I tuned to 8.1 and 10.1 still no host on HostChan coloum. Host SUFlags: 0xe6800000; on VBI Data Packet under INS:6379; Section Comm Serial: Tx Num Pkts :198907, TX num Bytes 533310 - these numbers change very often. Is that mean I am receiving data? Should I do anything else or just wait for now? Should I try the DTVPal converter box? Thanks

Any ideas ? I still don't have a clock and I did the "unplug it" reset yesterday. It normally gets clock back quickly, but not now. While I have no listings, I do have ads with TVGOS, so something is coming in.

I've never had such a buggy consumer device. It makes my ham radios look like marvels of easy to understand engineering.

I had a spontaneous reboot on Friday, while watching and simultaneously recording a baseball game. When the reboot finished, the clock was off but the DVR tuned to the baseball game. Recording stopped because of no clock. For the heck of it, I tuned to the clock/TVGOS channel (2.1 in Chicago), and about 15 seconds later the clock was restored, the channel switched back to the baseball game, and recording started up. YMMV.

From Macrovision:
"hello,

Hello in order to get our data over the air you will need a digital converter box.

To our knowledge, EchoStar and Artec are the only companies that manufactures a box
that passes our data. This is not a recommendation or endorsement of this product."

Question: How many people are getting their guide/grid only from digital over the air broadcast signals without the use of a converter box? Is this Macrovision person completely wrong in making this statement?

If I buy one of these boxes, do I connect it to the cable input and continue to use the antenna input for my digital signal?

Question: How many people are getting their guide/grid only from digital over the air broadcast signals without the use of a converter box? Is this Macrovision person completely wrong in making this statement?
...
If I buy one of these boxes, do I connect it to the cable input and continue to use the antenna input for my digital signal?Yes, the Macrovision person is completely wrong. Many people, including myself, receive TVGOS digitally now after the firmware upgrade; and somewhat fewer people, still including myself, received it before the firmware upgrade.

And yes, you can hook a DTVPal to your cable input (channel 3 or 4), rescan, and set up the DTVPal to provide analog VBI converted from your friendly local digital TVGOS station. The procedure is hardly simple (nothing in the DTVPal manual will give you a clue, as none of that applies to the Sony.) I'm not sure the procedure has been posted in this thread, but it can sort of be extrapolated from this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16413133#post16413133 .

You found a working host channel on the FIOS feed that the SONY can acquire through a cablecard?

With FIOS being all digital, that host would also have to be digital I assume. Are you getting this with the .21 firmware- at least where its working on the 250.

I have been using .13 firmware, I was unaware of the .21 until after I posted last night. I just updated the firmware on the 500 unit to see if it fixes the clock problem, I will wait on the 250 since that is behaving OK. I believe my local CBS is working as the host channel, when doing a G test I get a good VBI stream and I have performed the "force digital host procedure" and have filled in listings. However the 753 menu shows a blank for host channel. I am using cable only.

I'll let you know how it goes with the .21 firmware update.

I went through my downstairs (the OK) unit. Full listings for 7 or 8 days-all perfect, recorded as scheduled tonight.

The upstairs unit, since it is gridless anyway, was wiped under the gemstar menu. I'll give it the three days and see what happens.

Still, one unit is 100 % and one wipes itself out. Go figure.:rolleyes:

Picked up one of these at a swap meet for $20.00, it had no power cord or remote. Trying to find a cord to power it up and test. Does anyone know if TV Guide EPG is still available/active? I have Cox digital in Phoenix, Az.
Hi. Yes Cox cable does broadcast the TVGOS via channel 8. You should go ahead and do the firmware update.

You can use a universal remote control, such as a Harmony to operate it.

You can get a power cord at Radio Shack, thats where I got mine at. I would take the DVR with you to make sure you get the right one.

July 31st, No Grid, and $20 Insurance

As most know, if you do not have a Grid with Channel Map; but you do have essentially all other data components to receive channel listings, programs, and schedules; then a DTV converter box that supports TVGOS is the best bet to make your Sony Box work again. It is a bet, it’s not a guarantee.
...

Each of those DTV converter boxes retails for about $60, and each qualifies for the $40 rebate coupon. Thus making you net cost just $20 – that is pretty cheap insurance – to build a Grid in a No Grid environment.

Here is the catch, you have only till July 31st to order a coupon from the Government, at which time the program is discontinued. The coupon is valid for 90 days.

I have been without a grid (channel lineup) for about 5 or 6 weeks now, since I installed the firmware update and accidentally reset to factory defaults. I'm suspicious that some key information is not being broadcast in the SF Bay area as I have patiently tried most everything here in this forum (including leaving the DVR untouched for 16 days, and the zip code 00000 reset). I'm stuck with a good clock, lots of ads, TVGOS patch 08.06.44, all kinds of packets except LineupPkts, no host channel, HostSUFlags of 0xe6800000 (I'm only missing 3 bits:rolleyes:), and an excellent newfound skill of navigating the 753... diagnostic screens;). And I've pretty much run out of patience. There's no way this device should take more than two full weeks to recover after a reset:(.

I decided about two weeks ago that getting the $40 rebate card and ordering a DTVPal Plus (total cost to me including shipping and tax was $31 and some change) would be worth a shot. I'm hopeful that if I can get a lineup back then the DHG-HDD250 can continue to receive program listing updates without a host channel over the digital OTA stream.

If you are in this predicament, I suggest that you go ahead and request the rebate coupon right away. It took about a week to come and as HoustonPerson points out, it gives you a few months to decide if the DTVPal Plus might solve the problem.

BTW, in a digital age, WHY DOES THE GOVERNMENT DO THESE REBATES WITH RELATIVELY EXPENSIVE-LOOKING PLASTIC CREDIT CARD STYLE CARDS? :eek::eek::eek: Immediately upon receiving mine in the mail, I entered all of the information from it online to order the DTVPal Plus, rendering the card obsolete. It could have all been done with bits - no trees, fossil fuels or petroleum-based products required. :D It should at least be optional...

Anyway, after I receive the DTVPal in 7-10 business days, I'll give it a whirl and report back my success or failure (and probably more frustrations).

Terry

I went through my downstairs (the OK) unit. Full listings for 7 or 8 days-all perfect, recorded as scheduled tonight.

The upstairs unit, since it is gridless anyway, was wiped under the gemstar menu. I'll give it the three days and see what happens.

Still, one unit is 100 % and one wipes itself out. Go figure.:rolleyes:

No that I know what is going on with yours, it is so strange that I have exactly the same thing going on here. I did the firmware upgrade before left for vacation 10 days ago. Both units got clock and listings. When I am back yesterday, the one downstairs is still fine. The upstairs one does not have any listing, wrong clock.

Trying to figure out what I should do next.

Yes, the Macrovision person is completely wrong. Many people, including myself, receive TVGOS digitally now after the firmware upgrade; and somewhat fewer people, still including myself, received it before the firmware upgrade.

And yes, you can hook a DTVPal to your cable input (channel 3 or 4), rescan, and set up the DTVPal to provide analog VBI converted from your friendly local digital TVGOS station. The procedure is hardly simple (nothing in the DTVPal manual will give you a clue, as none of that applies to the Sony.) I'm not sure the procedure has been posted in this thread, but it can sort of be extrapolated from this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16413133#post16413133 .

There is a VERY detailed explanation of the process by jtbell, with a good background explanation in this thread at: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16808127#post16808127

There is a VERY detailed explanation of the process by jtbell, with a good background explanation in this thread at: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16808127#post16808127
there's a significantly shorter setup at my DTVPal link below (which I set up mainly for my LG3410a, but which I have tried with my Sony, too - ironically, it hasn't worked with with the 3410a, but it apparently DOES work with the Sony)

I have been without a grid (channel lineup) for about 5 or 6 weeks now, since I installed the firmware update and accidentally reset to factory defaults. I'm suspicious that some key information is not being broadcast in the SF Bay area as I have patiently tried most everything here in this forum (including leaving the DVR untouched for 16 days, and the zip code 00000 reset). I'm stuck with a good clock, lots of ads, TVGOS patch 08.06.44, all kinds of packets except LineupPkts, no host channel, HostSUFlags of 0xe6800000 (I'm only missing 3 bits:rolleyes:), and an excellent newfound skill of navigating the 753... diagnostic screens;). And I've pretty much run out of patience. There's no way this device should take more than two full weeks to recover after a reset:(.

I decided about two weeks ago that getting the $40 rebate card and ordering a DTVPal Plus (total cost to me including shipping and tax was $31 and some change) would be worth a shot. I'm hopeful that if I can get a lineup back then the DHG-HDD250 can continue to receive program listing updates without a host channel over the digital OTA stream.

If you are in this predicament, I suggest that you go ahead and request the rebate coupon right away. It took about a week to come and as HoustonPerson points out, it gives you a few months to decide if the DTVPal Plus might solve the problem.

...

Anyway, after I receive the DTVPal in 7-10 business days, I'll give it a whirl and report back my success or failure (and probably more frustrations).

Terry

Yep, I am doing pretty much the same thing, $20 for insurance is ok; I can almost afford it - LOL

I have ordered the "artec" unit - it should be here by the middle of next week - It is coming in from Carson, CA

For the last 4-5 days the HostSUFlags has been 0xf78; but last night it went from search "2" to search "3" and reset HostSUFlags back to 0xe68 - - - that tells me it is looking for Grid. Still DLTimer is "NA" = No Grid

I "know" 100% of the TVGOS data is in the "air" for Houston; but sans Grid. I have completed zilliions of test with the Houston market (none posted here), and have about a half dozen more to do (some invented the last two days but not yet executed).

Because last night was the "first" reseting (back setting) of HostSUFlags in a "Gridless" state - that tells me the software is smart enough to "know" it does not have a Grid. I do not know if others in the USA has witnessed the same or not?

This last weekend when it did obtain 0xf78 in less than 30 hours after "00000", that was most likely the results of changes at TVGOS/Local CBS this last weekend. So perhaps that is still being worked on locally? Maybe?

btw, the net price for the Artec box was $19.99. Once I complete other test; and assuming I get to the Artec install (10 days?), I will post the results.

Because last night was the "first" reseting (back setting) of HostSUFlags in a "Gridless" state - that tells me the software is smart enough to "know" it does not have a Grid. I do not know if others in the USA has witnessed the same or not?


HostSUFlags is smart enough to know that it does not have a Host set. Others (including myself) have witnessed HostSUFlags reset, even while having a Grid and Listings. When all of the required bits in HostSUFlags are set, you will have a HostChan displayed, and only then will a Grid magically appear. :)

HostSUFlags is smart enough to know that it does not have a Host set. Others (including myself) have witnessed HostSUFlags reset, even while having a Grid and Listings. When all of the required bits in HostSUFlags are set, you will have a HostChan displayed, and only then will a Grid magically appear. :)


I really do not dispute anything in your three sentences; but they have nothing to do regarding my posting?

Later

I decided about two weeks ago that getting the $40 rebate card and ordering a DTVPal Plus (total cost to me including shipping and tax was $31 and some change) would be worth a shot. I'm hopeful that if I can get a lineup back then the DHG-HDD250 can continue to receive program listing updates without a host channel over the digital OTA stream.

If you are in this predicament, I suggest that you go ahead and request the rebate coupon right away. It took about a week to come and as HoustonPerson points out, it gives you a few months to decide if the DTVPal Plus might solve the problem.



For those looking at the DTVPal: There are three models of the DTVPal, but all have the TVGOS support feature. Most of your local Sears (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05757788000P?vName=Computers%20&%20Electronics&cName=ElectronicsAccessories&sName=Televisions&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IDx20070921x00003a) stores are selling the DTVPal. There is also the discounted TR-40 (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=TR-40CRA) if you can still find anyone selling these. They went for around $40 (free with coupon). The DTVPal Plus is the same with an enhanced tuner although I believe the standard tuner in the DTVPal is excellent. Much better than the tuner in my Sony DVR.

I am in a predicament which requires me to try and use the DTVPal to obtain guide listings. I was previously getting listings through cable on digital CBS. For some reason my cable company stopped passing TVGOS data about 1 week ago. Both my Ver 8 DVR and Ver 9 TV stopped populating listings. I also have antenna connected to the DVR, but the built in tuner is unable to tune CBS due to a weak or multipath signal. My DTVPal has no problem tuning OTA CBS.

Last night I connected my DTVPal to the antenna input of my DVR. I followed jtbell's (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16808127&highlight=#post16808127) procedure to set-up the DTVPal into "TV Guide" mode. I performed a G* Test and verified I was receiving VBI packets from the channel 3 output of the DTVPal. Since I already have a grid, I didn't want to "Reset to Factory Default" and end up in a worse situation. I am hoping that the Sony will find and use Channel 3 output from the DTVPal on its own automatically. I will post my results.


I am still in the process of trying to get listings with my DTVPal. I still have a grid, but no listings. This morning marked the third morning with no listings and the DVR still hasn't locked on to Ch 3 as the host. I am getting rapid VBI counts on the G* test from the output of the Pal. The DVR is off at night, but my wife and kids use the DVR during the day, so maybe it just hasn't been left off long enough. I guess the next step would be to try the zip code changeroo, but do not want to lose the grid. I sent off an email to my cable co. Hopefully they will re-enable the TVGOS stream. The other option for me is to try to adjust my antenna so the DVR can tune digital CBS directly.

[...]
I guess the next step would be to try the zip code changeroo, but do not want to lose the grid.
[...]


You should do the zip code changeroo. I would change it to a different zip code (not "00000"), and then back to the current one. This will not cause you to lose your grid. Your DVR is probably still locked on your analog cable station as its host channel. The zip code change will make it start the search for a new host. Eventually, the DVR will give up on the host channel on its own, and start looking for a new one, but it is unclear how long this takes (at least 3 days).

Mark

I am still in the process of trying to get listings with my DTVPal. I still have a grid, but no listings. This morning marked the third morning with no listings and the DVR still hasn't locked on to Ch 3 as the host. I am getting rapid VBI counts on the G* test from the output of the Pal. The DVR is off at night, but my wife and kids use the DVR during the day, so maybe it just hasn't been left off long enough. I guess the next step would be to try the zip code changeroo, but do not want to lose the grid. I sent off an email to my cable co. Hopefully they will re-enable the TVGOS stream. The other option for me is to try to adjust my antenna so the DVR can tune digital CBS directly.
Changing to the 00000 zip will not make it lose the grid. It just resets some data input for the listings. Not sure what, since I have never checked the 753... screens during a zip reset. I have never lost a grid using the 00000 zip reset per TV guide instructions, so I would not worry about that,
Michael

I am still in the process of trying to get listings with my DTVPal. I still have a grid, but no listings. This morning marked the third morning with no listings and the DVR still hasn't locked on to Ch 3 as the host. I am getting rapid VBI counts on the G* test from the output of the Pal. The DVR is off at night, but my wife and kids use the DVR during the day, so maybe it just hasn't been left off long enough. I guess the next step would be to try the zip code changeroo, but do not want to lose the grid. I sent off an email to my cable co. Hopefully they will re-enable the TVGOS stream. The other option for me is to try to adjust my antenna so the DVR can tune digital CBS directly.I hope you followed the procedure where it said to use a programmable remote (set to Scientific Atlanta) to enter the encoded host channel number (e.g. 391 for channel 29.1) while the DTVPal is already in TVGOS mode - it will do no good at all to tune it to that channel first and then enter TVGOS mode. It MUST receive the channel code from the remote to begin converting SCTE-127 digital stream to analog VBI. Furthermore, from what I've read elsewhere, you need to hit the DTVPal with that number again (from the SA remote) every few days or it will stop converting.

Also, make sure you enter your REAL zipcode into the Sony, not one of those funky codes from the DTVPal book (which is itself virtually useless when the DTVPal is being used with the Sony.) It doesn't matter what zipcode you enter into the DTVPal - it has no use for a zipcode and probably only asks for one for firmware compatibility with the DTVPal DVR.

From Macrovision:
"
Question: How many people are getting their guide/grid only from digital over the air broadcast signals without the use of a converter box? Is this Macrovision person completely wrong in making this statement?

If I buy one of these boxes, do I connect it to the cable input and continue to use the antenna input for my digital signal?

Jengle - I get the full grid and listings (OTA only) in Seattle. Only recent problem was when the TVGOS signal switch from analog 9 to digital 7.1 earlier this year and that was taken care of with the G-Factory test. I think the F/W upgrade makes it pick up the digital host for both the TV Guide data and clock correctly, so the G-Factory test is no longer necessary to pick these up with the new firmware. Bottom line is Seattle OTA works. Can't answer about the cable input, but you shouldn't need a converter box.

You should do the zip code changeroo. I would change it to a different zip code (not "00000"), and then back to the current one. This will not cause you to lose your grid. Your DVR is probably still locked on your analog cable station as its host channel. The zip code change will make it start the search for a new host. Eventually, the DVR will give up on the host channel on its own, and start looking for a new one, but it is unclear how long this takes (at least 3 days).

Mark

Changing to the 00000 zip will not make it lose the grid. It just resets some data input for the listings. Not sure what, since I have never checked the 753... screens during a zip reset. I have never lost a grid using the 00000 zip reset per TV guide instructions, so I would not worry about that,
Michael

Good to know. I didn't think it would cause me to lose my grid, but wasn't sure. I will go ahead and try it to give it a jumpstart on finding the new host.

I hope you followed the procedure where it said to use a programmable remote (set to Scientific Atlanta) to enter the encoded host channel number (e.g. 391 for channel 29.1) while the DTVPal is already in TVGOS mode - it will do no good at all to tune it to that channel first and then enter TVGOS mode. It MUST receive the channel code from the remote to begin converting SCTE-127 digital stream to analog VBI. Furthermore, from what I've read elsewhere, you need to hit the DTVPal with that number again (from the SA remote) every few days or it will stop converting.

Also, make sure you enter your REAL zipcode into the Sony, not one of those funky codes from the DTVPal book (which is itself virtually useless when the DTVPal is being used with the Sony.) It doesn't matter what zipcode you enter into the DTVPal - it has no use for a zipcode and probably only asks for one for firmware compatibility with the DTVPal DVR.

Yes, I did use a SA programmed remote to input the host channel (in my case 171 for 7.1). I will also enter the number again since it has been a couple of days. I haven't changed my zipcode yet, so it is still my real zipcode in the DVR.

Good to know. I didn't think it would cause me to lose my grid, but wasn't sure. I will go ahead and try it to give it a jumpstart on finding the new host.
when I tested my Sony with my DTVPal, the Sony found 3 as the host channel overnight...it had a blank host channel before that, so I think it was already looking...my Pal output was joined to the antenna input, as described in the link below...

I'm puzzled about why your unit didn't find the channel 3 as host pretty fast...had you otherwise changed your setup in some way?

For those who may have an interest (if anyone :)), my HostChan that displayed on Friday on unit#1 has disappeared. I edited Friday's post (with the pictures) to add a current picture of the VBI-Data screen to show the status of the fields after the HostChan disappeared. The link to the earlier post is below:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16843210#post16843210

Jengle - I get the full grid and listings (OTA only) in Seattle. Only recent problem was when the TVGOS signal switch from analog 9 to digital 7.1 earlier this year and that was taken care of with the G-Factory test. I think the F/W upgrade makes it pick up the digital host for both the TV Guide data and clock correctly, so the G-Factory test is no longer necessary to pick these up with the new firmware. Bottom line is Seattle OTA works. Can't answer about the cable input, but you shouldn't need a converter box.

I'm curious...Have you ever lost the grid and guide data and had it come back using digital?
Is 7.1 KIRO you host channel?
I'm also using only OTA

For those who may have an interest (if anyone :)), my HostChan that displayed on Friday on unit#1 has disappeared. I edited Friday's post (with the pictures) to add a current picture of the VBI-Data screen to show the status of the fields after the HostChan disappeared.We've already established that in a digital environment, the Host Chan can come and go every few days, yet there is no apparent loss of TVGOS info or data flow resulting from that. During the time (typically a few days) that the Host Chan is blank, listings continue to update. I've seen it as have others. Strange though it may be, I don't think we need to be be obsessed with this phenomenon - it appears to be a normal part of "the way it works". We'll never completely reverse engineer this thing by observing symptoms - now gimme the source code and ... :)

Frank -

I didn't mean to imply that this was anything "new". I simply intended to add the photo and information concerning the "loss" of the HostChan that had appeared on Friday to further document the process. :)

What type of antenna do you have? Sounds like you have marginal reception on CBS. To receive that channel you only need a UHF antenna. Have you explored cable channels above 50? On my 250, which doesn't have a cable card, all my HD channels are located in a band above 50, and contain 5 digits.
Ray

I have a DB4 UHF only Antenna and I have re scanned both my DHG and my TV several times. Even rescanned both without the leads to the antenna hoping this will clear the memory. I reconnected the Antenna and re-scanned it again. I still can't tune to 2.1, sometimes I can tune to 43.1 but I am not able to lock in on it. I also Reset my TV Guide so now I don't have a grid, it shows "No Data", Since I was able to tune in to 2.1 before the transition, I am thinking that somehow, something happened that I am no longer my TVGOS data. So I have ordered a Winegard 7015 and will be installing this when I get it. I hope this solves the problem. My theory is that once I am able to tune to CBS, I will resume getting my TVGOS data and subsequently get a grid with program listings. If you recall, when I got back from vacation on July 4, I had a grid but most of the channels either showed no title or no listings. This is why I tried resetting TV Guide on the 9012 menu.
What puzzles me is why I was still getting some clock, and program information when I can't tune to 2.1 or 43.1 back then.

[...]
Strange though it may be, I don't think we need to be be obsessed with this phenomenon - it appears to be a normal part of "the way it works".
[...]


Obsessed with the DHG? I thought that is why we are here, because we are obsessed with this. Did you know that the host channel doesn't blank just every few days, but blanks every 3 days. This action even happens with people who have no grid, about once every 5 days their HostSUFlags clear, and the search for a host begins again. While we are talking about the DHG, can anyone recommend a nice place for me, and my DHG to have the picture for our christmas card taken this year?

Maybe I do have a problem ;)
Mark

Obsessed with the DHG? I thought that is why we are here, because we are obsessed with this. Did you know that the host channel doesn't blank just every few days, but blanks every 3 days. This action even happens with people who have no grid, about once every 5 days their HostSUFlags clear, and the search for a host begins again. While we are talking about the DHG, can anyone recommend a nice place for me, and my DHG to have the picture for our christmas card taken this year?

Maybe I do have a problem ;)
Mark

Mark,
I would recomend taking the picture in the living room. Taking it in the bedroom would just be too tacky !!

I'm curious...Have you ever lost the grid and guide data and had it come back using digital?
Is 7.1 KIRO you host channel?
I'm also using only OTA

I've lost the guide data, but I don't recall losing the grid. Host channel is blank tonight. Had been 39 before, which is the physical UHF channel for 7.1. Clock is Ch 39, and it resets correctly after losing power etc. Though the last time it took a bit longer to reset correctly. Might have something to do with the station operating at half power while they changed the antenna out.

I don't know why your set doesn't pick it up, but the CBS station must be broadcasting the correct information or I would have nothing...

Still bizarre. I went into the TVGOS screens, and I see 2.1 as my time channel. No clock, though. There is no host channel, so I did the gemstar test, unsure if it still works, as I got the "VBI search" screen. No, I know ATSC has no VBI....

I have ads, but no clock or grid.

I'll leave it three days. Meanwhile, the unit downstairs is perfect, fully listed.

NY OTA only.

My DHG-HDD250 has never worked properly with digital TVGOS. The latest firmware (Version 1.2.21 ) has been installed. I can receive advertising, but no time and no guide. I have a recently purchased DTVPal DVR that works fine with the digital TVGOS stream. This confirms that digital TVGOS data is present in my area.

I opened a case with macrovision customer support. After several weeks of testing, this is the final report of their findings:

from Rovi CE Support <ce_customer_support@rovicorp.com>
to "xxxxxxx@gmail.com" <xxxxxx@gmail.com>
date Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 2:52 PM
subject RE: Re: Fwd: Re: Re: TVGOS - xxxxxx [ ref:00D49pu7.50047rkgk:ref ]
mailed-by u0r7jl8rojlti6qi.kn73c0zw71uznltx.2vyayp.bounce.salesforce.c om

Reply Follow up message

Mr. xxxxxx,

The diagnostics that you provided show that your Sony is receiving data, but does not tell us if there are any device or firmware issues. In your previous emails you asked about issues between TVGOS V9 and TVGOS V8 with the digital data. There are incompatibility issues between them only in that the ability to receive and use the digital TVGOS data did not happen until TVGOS version 8.1.65. The Sony DVR that you have, was manufactured with version 8.1.42 (not able to use digital data). The patch updated the software to 8.1.71 which should be able to use digital data.

Sony went ahead with the upgrade without it first being tested by our engineers so we are unable support whether or not the the patch will work for receiving our data or not. I have heard several reports of people who have installed the patch receiving our data with no problems.

Since we are unable to support the Sony patch, all we can do is verify that data is passing in the area. Data is passing in your area as evidenced by the DTVPal receiving listings, which does use our data. Until we get approval to support the Sony patch, we are unable to troubleshoot issues with the Sony DVR, other than verifying data passage.

Regards,

CE Customer Support

My DHG-HDD250 has never worked properly with digital TVGOS. The latest firmware (Version 1.2.21 ) has been installed. I can receive advertising, but no time and no guide. I have a recently purchased DTVPal DVR that works fine with the digital TVGOS stream. This confirms that digital TVGOS data is present in my area.

The DTVPal DVR has a "TV Guide" mode like the DTVPal+ converter box, that converts digital TVGOS to analog and sends it out the RF output. You should be able to use this to get a channel lineup on your Sony. After that, the Sony can probably get program listings on its own from the digital TVGOS signal. You can find my procedure for doing this here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16808127#post16808127

According to the manuals, the menu screens seem to be the same (or almost so) on the DTVPal DVR and the DTVPal+ converter box, so the instructions should work for both.

The DTVPal DVR has a "TV Guide" mode like the DTVPal+ converter box, that converts digital TVGOS to analog and sends it out the RF output. You should be able to use this to get a channel lineup on your Sony. After that, the Sony can probably get program listings on its own from the digital TVGOS signal. You can find my procedure for doing this here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16808127#post16808127

According to the manuals, the menu screens seem to be the same (or almost so) on the DTVPal DVR and the DTVPal+ converter box, so the instructions should work for both.

I will be using your DTVPal proceedure with the Artec converter box. The proceedures you have written are excellent. I really will not know what kind of "remote controll" issues there will be till it gets here; but I expect the same.

Question:

Going from Phase 1 to Phase 2, is it possible to simply disconnect the Antenna feed from the Sony Box and place it on the converter box for phase 1 and then, when you are ready to delete the convertet box; just place the antenna feed back on the Sony Box in Phase 2?

OR

Does a "splitter" have to be used to feed both the Sony Box and your Converter Box with antenna feed at the same time?

Thanks

Would anyone like to comment on the following?

1. This morning did a “00000” reset and changed to zip code “00010” (Houston Sub – there is No converter box attached and No cable; only Antenna Feed to the Sony Box).

2. After this morning’s 10AM 81 download, this is the result. HostSUFlags went from ground zero to this (see pictures) and both StationPkts and TimezonePkts increase by “6” (seems like a faster increase for me?)


Side Notes:

I am beginning to think the “27” DL’s is the one that is defective for Houston when sending out Normal Digital TVG. Those downloads seem to have “zero” results on my box; whereas HostSUFlags “always” responds to the “81” DL’s.

A few days ago I did a full cable scan (no stations of course nothing connected) AND turned on cable (YES) in TVGOS set up, none of that had any effect. That is part of my madness in using substitution code “00010” in step 1 above

The DTVPal DVR has a "TV Guide" mode like the DTVPal+ converter box, that converts digital TVGOS to analog and sends it out the RF output. You should be able to use this to get a channel lineup on your Sony. After that, the Sony can probably get program listings on its own from the digital TVGOS signal. You can find my procedure for doing this here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16808127#post16808127

According to the manuals, the menu screens seem to be the same (or almost so) on the DTVPal DVR and the DTVPal+ converter box, so the instructions should work for both.

I received my DTVPal yesterday. I have not been able to get a Grid (channel lineup) since late June when I accidentally did a TVGOS reset to factory defaults. I have been getting accurate clock and ads all along. This is with the .21 firmware that I installed in mid-June.

I used a modified approach to jtbell's instuctions above. I simply disconnected my antenna from the Sony and connected it to the DTVPal, and then connected the DTVPal to the Sony. I did an Add Channels from Antenna scan to add channel 3, and then set up the DTVPal per the instuctions. I did a 9012 G* Test and it was receiving VBI packets, and I also did a 963214785 VBI scan of current channel before turning it off for the night. I did NOT do the TVGOS reset to factory defaults, nor did I reset my zip code (per jtbell's instructions)

This morning I checked and IT HAS A CHANNEL LINEUP :D:D:D

It also has some listing for the 4 channels it enabled. It shows 0:0-3 as the host channel and the clock channel, and it has Host SUFlags of 0xff800000 (it was previously "stuck" on 0xe680000). There was lots of info on the first screen of the Reception-VBI Info screen, and the packets screen showed a boatload of bFirsts and bPkts, as well as LineupPkts (108 of them) for the first time since June.

I enabled the rest of my normal channels, remove the DTVPal from the loop. I did a zip code reset (to a nearby zip code). After the zip change, the host channel was again blank, and the HostSUFlags was 0x8000000. The clock channel changed to 0:5-1.

I put the Sony on my digital host channel (CBS on 5.1) and turned it off for the day. With any luck, it will fill in the listings using the digital feed, without the DTVPal, and I will be 100% operational by the weekend! Woo Hoo :D:D:D

Anybody want to rent my DTVPal Plus? ;)

Terry

Question:

Going from Phase 1 to Phase 2, is it possible to simply disconnect the Antenna feed from the Sony Box and place it on the converter box for phase 1 and then, when you are ready to delete the convertet box; just place the antenna feed back on the Sony Box in Phase 2?


HoustonPerson, see my post just above. I did exactly what you asked in this question (just put the DTVPal in the mix for phase 1 on the antenna input) and it worked perfectly to get the channel lineup.

Good luck with the Artec.

Terry

It also has some listing for the 4 channels it enabled. It shows 0:0-3 as the host channel and the clock channel, and it has Host SUFlags of 0xff800000 (it was previously "stuck" on 0xe680000). There was lots of info on the first screen of the Reception-VBI Info screen, and the packets screen showed a boatload of bFirsts and bPkts, as well as LineupPkts (108 of them) for the first time since June.


Terry


Thanks Terry for the post, important stuff there.........yep stuck on 0xe68 for ever.........and then finally to 0xff8 with converter box

Going from Phase 1 to Phase 2, is it possible to simply disconnect the Antenna feed from the Sony Box and place it on the converter box for phase 1 and then, when you are ready to delete the convertet box; just place the antenna feed back on the Sony Box in Phase 2?

I see Terry has already answered this as "yes" by doing it that way himself.

OR

Does a "splitter" have to be used to feed both the Sony Box and your Converter Box with antenna feed at the same time?


With my method you do need a splitter. I overlooked that detail because I already split my antenna signal several ways. To provide the antenna feed for the converter box, I temporarily moved a cable over from one of my other devices.

I see Terry has already answered this as "yes" by doing it that way himself.



With my method you do need a splitter. I overlooked that detail because I already split my antenna signal several ways. To provide the antenna feed for the converter box, I temporarily moved a cable over from one of my other devices.

One subtle difference is that I did not use the Cable input, but I did everything on the Antenna input. It made rescanning simpler. It did mean that I did not have digital input to the Sony while it was rebuilding the lineup, but that seemed OK to me.

Cross your fingers for me that everything else I need is in the digital TVGOS stream.

Terry

The first time I did it, I was a bit worried that having TVGOS coming in on both the cable input (analog) and antenna input (digital) might cause problems, e.g. digital taking precedence over analog, leading to the Sony never "finding" the temporary analog host channel. But that turned out not to be the case for me.

7/18 power loss [reset = 7/19 0:39:00]
7/19 0xE28
7/20 0xE68
7/23 0xF78 (18:05)
7/24 0xFF8 Host 0:11-1
HostC Slicer column updates in realtime
LastASetEnd 7/24 18:45:37
VBIState 0x06

7/18 power loss [reset = 7/19 0:39:00]
7/19 0xE28
7/20 0xE68
7/23 0xF78 (18:05)
7/24 0xFF8 Host 0:11-1
HostC Slicer column updates in realtime
LastASetEnd 7/24 18:45:37
VBIState 0x06


KWG is that via the converter box or from Reset Factory Defaults without the converter box?

Would anyone like to comment on the following?

1. This morning did a “00000” reset and changed to zip code “00010” (Houston Sub – there is No converter box attached and No cable; only Antenna Feed to the Sony Box).

2. After this morning’s 10AM 81 download, this is the result. HostSUFlags went from ground zero to this (see pictures) and both StationPkts and TimezonePkts increase by “6” (seems like a faster increase for me?)


Side Notes:

I am beginning to think the “27” DL’s is the one that is defective for Houston when sending out Normal Digital TVG. Those downloads seem to have “zero” results on my box; whereas HostSUFlags “always” responds to the “81” DL’s.

A few days ago I did a full cable scan (no stations of course nothing connected) AND turned on cable (YES) in TVGOS set up, none of that had any effect. That is part of my madness in using substitution code “00010” in step 1 above

Please refer to the original set of picture above. In only TWO 81 DL's today (no 27 DL's yet) - this is the fastest HostSUFlags has progressed.

It receives data with subtitution zip code alone?

Still Gridless. Will there be one tomorrow?

7/18 power loss [reset = 7/19 0:39:00]
7/19 0xE28
7/20 0xE68
7/23 0xF78 (18:05)
7/24 0xFF8 Host 0:11-1
HostC Slicer column updates in realtime
LastASetEnd 7/24 18:45:37
VBIState 0x06


KWG -

Had you lost your Grid on 7/18 also? Or just the HostChan? And do you have a Grid now?

WS65711,

> Had you lost your Grid on 7/18 also?

No. There was just a power loss during a storm and it recovered quickly.
The 753 reset page entry was given as a reference / starting point.

> Or just the HostChan?

The HostChan was set on 7/11. (sat)
The HostChan was blank on 7/14.
The HostChan was set on 7/24. (fri)

I think there was mention of "Fri,Sat,Sun" timeframe for setting the host.
Data stream / bit progression.

> And do you have a Grid now?

Yes. Everything has been okay since I last used the DTVPal at the end of June.

This is only the second time I have noticed the host channel being set,
so I assume the grid would have been re-established in both instances.
I would try 9012 "TV Guide Reset to Factory Defaults" but I can't predict
the data stream here.

[...]
I have a recently purchased DTVPal DVR that works fine with the digital TVGOS stream. This confirms that digital TVGOS data is present in my area.

I opened a case with macrovision customer support. After several weeks of testing, this is the final report of their findings:

Rovi's "Mission Statement" vowing not to support the Sony removed.



Would you verify that the TVGOS guide on the DTVPal DVR has the red "TV Guide" logo as seen here (http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/ilovehdtv/Other/DTVPalDVR/large/programguide_smalltext.png)? This will prove that it is getting TVGOS data, and not using PSIP data.

Mark

...................... This is only the second time I have noticed the host channel being set, so I assume the grid would have been re-established in both instances. I would try 9012 "TV Guide Reset to Factory Defaults" but I can't predict the data stream here.


I believe your assumption is correct, based on my three experiences since June 12th. Each time the unit was 9012 "Reset", when the HostChan appeared (after 3 to 6 days) the Channel Lineup (Grid) appeared at the same time. :)

I don't blame you for not wanting to intentionally do a Reset simply to prove that the data in Houston is at least sometimes working. If only there was someone who is Gridless in the Houston area, and who also had enough patience to wait for 6 or 7 days while the DHG did it's thing , the proof would come soon enough . . . ;)

The HostChan was set on 7/11. (sat)
The HostChan was blank on 7/14.
The HostChan was set on 7/24. (fri)



I don't blame you for not wanting to intentionally do a Reset simply to prove that the data in Houston is at least sometimes working. If only there was someone who is Gridless in the Houston area, and who also had enough patience to wait for 6 or 7 days while the DHG did it's thing , the proof would come soon enough . . . ;)

I don't know about 6 or 7 days... looks more like 13 days.

I don't know about 6 or 7 days... looks more like 13 days.


7/18 power loss [reset = 7/19 0:39:00]


But remember KWG had a power loss and a Reset on 7/18-7/19, which may have interfered with any progress the DHG was making. That was like a "kick in the pants" that made it start over again, IMHO. I was counting the 6 days from 7/18 thru 7/24. :)

Cross your fingers for me that everything else I need is in the digital TVGOS stream.

So... did your program listings fill in?

I have a DB4 UHF only Antenna and I have re scanned both my DHG and my TV several times. Even rescanned both without the leads to the antenna hoping this will clear the memory. I reconnected the Antenna and re-scanned it again. I still can't tune to 2.1, sometimes I can tune to 43.1 but I am not able to lock in on it. I also Reset my TV Guide so now I don't have a grid, it shows "No Data", Since I was able to tune in to 2.1 before the transition, I am thinking that somehow, something happened that I am no longer my TVGOS data. So I have ordered a Winegard 7015 and will be installing this when I get it. I hope this solves the problem. My theory is that once I am able to tune to CBS, I will resume getting my TVGOS data and subsequently get a grid with program listings. If you recall, when I got back from vacation on July 4, I had a grid but most of the channels either showed no title or no listings. This is why I tried resetting TV Guide on the 9012 menu.
What puzzles me is why I was still getting some clock, and program information when I can't tune to 2.1 or 43.1 back then.
I'm not an antenna expert but seems to me that your current antenna is better for UHF and the new one adds VHF which you don't need.

Here are some additional thoughts:
Are you sure that the antenna is pointed in the correct direction per antennaweb.org?
Have you checked the connections from antenna to DVR?
If there is a splitter in the line, have you removed it?
Have you redone user configuration in 9012 menu?
Ray

Artec arrived today. This thing seems to be made a zillion times better than the cheapo Insignia box and is about 1/5 the size; but it may weigh more? I think it has a lot of metal in it? As you can tell it is a little smaller then the tray on the BD player.

As far as actual real world performance is concerned I have not owned it long enough to know; nor have I tested the stereo speaker set up on a better TV. I expect it to do equal or better than the current Insignia models.

I played with it just a tad on a 25 year old TV upstairs. You do not have to scan channels if you do not want too. You can just punch in an actual RF with the decimal and it will add that channel to the tuner! In other words if you enter you digital CBS station directly and you do not "scan" that will be the only channel in the box and that is the only channel needed for Grid Building. Enter 35-1 and you get 2-1 for Houston (NBC). Enter 11-1 and you get 11-1 for Houston (CBS). The standard EPG is a lot better than the Insignia too.

I also went into the TV Guide Set Up. All I got to see was the Yes or No question for TV Guide; because this was on a very old TV.

The Box comes with one fairly high quality RF cable about 3’ with screw connectors. The Box is small and the connectors are recessed at the back; connections can be a tad difficult if you have big thumbs. The two black cables you see at the back of the unit in this picture are much cheaper push on cables; after all I am only after a Grid and then the box will be disconnected.

Already have a Sony Universal Remote RM-VL600, and coded in “Hamlin/Regal” – there were 4 or 5 codes to choose from so just selected the first one. I will know later if that works or if it is even required?

The following picture shows the G-Link IR blaster attached. For Grid Building this is not required at all, no reason to connect it AFAIK?

Next Step – Get-A-Grid – Hopefully in a day or two, I will have something to report?

A trip from Houston to El Paso is a “long” trip – the question is: would it be shorter going through China first. Which came first the Chicken or the Egg? Because it is me, I am going through China first. Don’t ask me why, I have no idea!

I do hope when this is completed my wife will let me move back in?


Side Note - mostly unrelated topic: Before it gets lost in the shuffle; pic 7547 is HostSUFlags before the Artec arrived, with the Sony Box set to zip "00010". That level of HostSuFlags was achieved within 10-12 hours after a "00000" reset!


That is the exact "same" result I get with actual Houston zip codes - 77001 etc.


In Houston it takes full 4 days - 96 hours - for the box to begin its "next" search and attempt to make a Grid if it does not have one. If you do use "00000" routine after 5:30PM that will force the search for that evening. Thus the turnaround is less than 24 hours. You are forcing the box to look every night (via "00000"); otherwise you have to wait 96 hours for the box to do that same procedure itself. (This really only applies to OTA peeps, cable peeps are really operating in different environment). I have never seen “00000” slow down the box, it has only sped it up or no affect at all. There are of course a zillion other issues involved – MV, Sony, Corrupted Data, possible bad SW .21 not tested by MV; but that is well beyond the scope of this paragraph.

My DHG-HDD250 has never worked properly with digital TVGOS. The latest firmware (Version 1.2.21 ) has been installed. I can receive advertising, but no time and no guide. I have a recently purchased DTVPal DVR that works fine with the digital TVGOS stream. This confirms that digital TVGOS data is present in my area.

I'm going to go out on a limb, and speculate why the DTVPal DVR "works fine" with the digital TVGOS, but the Sony doesn't.

I missed it the first time I read N2VWZ's message, but his Sony DVR doesn't even have the right time (No TimezonePkts being sent out in his area). I looked at the DTVPal DVR thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071), and I think I know what is going on. The DTVPal DVR is capable of setting its time with the PSIP data. In fact, that is how it sets its time until the TVGOS takes over. If you go to that thread, and select the "Known Issues" link, you see that "clock drift" is the first issue that is listed. It is a result of the PSIP clock being wrong on some channels, and also effects the TVGOS. I think Macrovision relies on the PSIP time to calculate the timezone offset that the TVGOS uses (PSIP time - GMT = timezone offset time). This obsoletes the need to send out TimezonePkts.

What I think has happened is when Macrovision bought GemStar, they decided that some of the data the digital TVGOS was going to send out was unnecessary, and could be acquired from the PSIP data. So they dumbed down the Digital TVGOS data "standard". Unfortunately, Sony, and some other manufacturers, never got that memo (this may be why macrovision keeps pointing out that Sony didn't let them test the new firmware. Macrovision would have seen that Sony was relying on obsolete data, and had them fix it). So now, in some areas, the Sony sits waiting on data, that Macrovision considers to be obsolete. Fortunately this "obsolete" data is still going out to most areas, but if any of this speculation is true, who knows how long that will last. Some areas seem to have already discontinued sending out some of this data. I mentioned timezone packets, but there is at least one other piece of data that seems to be missing from some areas, which Macrovision may have also labeled as "obsolete".

Have I gone off the deep end, or does any of this sound feasible?

Mark

I'm going to go out on a limb, and speculate why the DTVPal DVR "works fine" with the digital TVGOS, but the Sony doesn't.



What I think has happened is when Macrovision bought GemStar, they decided that some of the data the digital TVGOS was going to send out was unnecessary, and could be acquired from the PSIP data. So they dumbed down the Digital TVGOS data "standard". Unfortunately, Sony, and some other manufacturers, never got that memo (this may be why macrovision keeps pointing out that Sony didn't let them test the new firmware. Macrovision would have seen that Sony was relying on obsolete data, and had them fix it). So now, in some areas, the Sony sits waiting on data, that Macrovision considers to be obsolete. Fortunately this "obsolete" data is still going out to most areas, but if any of this speculation is true, who knows how long that will last. Some areas seem to have already discontinued sending out some of this data. I mentioned timezone packets, but there is at least one other piece of data that seems to be missing from some areas, which Macrovision may have also labeled as "obsolete".

Have I gone off the deep end, or does any of this sound feasible?

Mark

Yes, a lot of that is very much feasible. I think many markets have elements missing the in the digital 27 DL's AND as time marches on to months and years, more of the DL's may be stripping out what the Sony Box needs to run. Knowing that the Sony .21 is dated Sept 2006 is part of the answer. It was really not tested in the "real world" until the last couple of months in 2009 - now it may be unlikely Sony and Rovi would get together and make a August 2009 SW that does work, and would 100% guarantee a Grid from scratch for "all" DMA's

So... did your program listings fill in?

I am 100% operational. Most of the guide filled in during the day Friday, and overnight last night, it filled in the next Saturday and filled in a few "No Listing" and "No Title" entries.

I'm almost giddy at the prospect of being able to use my DVR again as a DVR with a TV Guide.

I have been without a grid for 7 full weeks, and within 2 days of using the DTVPal (only to get the channel lineup), I now have a fully populated grid. :D:D:D

Happiness returns to Cupertino!
Terry

I'm going to go out on a limb, and speculate why the DTVPal DVR "works fine" with the digital TVGOS, but the Sony doesn't.

...

What I think has happened is when Macrovision bought GemStar, they decided that some of the data the digital TVGOS was going to send out was unnecessary, and could be acquired from the PSIP data. So they dumbed down the Digital TVGOS data "standard". Unfortunately, Sony, and some other manufacturers, never got that memo (this may be why macrovision keeps pointing out that Sony didn't let them test the new firmware. Macrovision would have seen that Sony was relying on obsolete data, and had them fix it). So now, in some areas, the Sony sits waiting on data, that Macrovision considers to be obsolete. Fortunately this "obsolete" data is still going out to most areas, but if any of this speculation is true, who knows how long that will last. Some areas seem to have already discontinued sending out some of this data. I mentioned timezone packets, but there is at least one other piece of data that seems to be missing from some areas, which Macrovision may have also labeled as "obsolete".

Have I gone off the deep end, or does any of this sound feasible?

Mark

You may very well be correct. I'm guessing that in my market (SF Bay Area) that we are missing some key bit of data that allows the Sony to lock onto the host channel, which prevents it from being able to re-establish a channel line-up. After my recent success with the DTVPal, I am all the more certain that is the case. Now, whether there is just a problem with the local TVGOS data stream, or if this is some piece of depricated data in the stream that Macrovision deems is no longer relevant, I can't say. It sure seems like Sony should get their act together, get Macrovision to review their firmware, and release updated firmware to fix all of these data-related issues.

I still like someone's previous suggestion that the firmware be modified to allow you to just tell the box the host channel and time zone offset, etc. instead of depending completely on the data stream to provide them. I'd bet that if I could have just said "My host channel is CBS 5.1", I would have been back in business overnight, instead of screwing around for 7 weeks.

Terry

my unit (also in the SF area) has not lost its time or lineup, but as noted in earlier posts, I tested use of the DTVPal with it, just to see it it was producing data that the Sony liked, and did it ever! It grabbed onto channel 3 as host channel immediately, as far as I could tell - the only time I've had a host channel since June 12. And judging from the pattern of the listings received after that, my Sony did get them from the Pal output, until I removed it from the joiner leading to the antenna input of the Sony.

(Ironically, for my purposes, my v7 LG 3410a DOES seem to get the clock and channel lineup from the Pal output, but it will not ACCEPT any listings from the Pal, even though the 3410a's diagnostic screens shows A and B packets being received, which are those the 3410a needs...I think there's kind of defect in the v7 legacy data, both because of this problem, and because - when I hooked up cable to the 3410a - I DID get listings, but soon I had to reboot the unit daily to continue to do do, which is exactly the problem I had beginning in May of last year, until CBS 5 analog started broadcasting analog TVGOS (around Thanksgiving), after which the problem was gone...just like that...whenever the 3410a a had 5 as the host channel. I really don't think TVGOS has any idea what it's doing, or at least the don't care how much problem they make for people)

Tony :(

Well, after having used the DTVPal+ to get channel lineups OTA on both of my Sonys, last night I decided to try once more to do it without the DTVPal+. Since the last time I tried it, all the SCETV stations in my area have started carrying TVGOS, including the closest one, that gives me the strongest signal. The last time, only one SCETV station was doing it, and its signal can be a bit flaky at times.

Also, during the day, I usually rotate my antenna to various directions, which usually affects reception on stations that I'm not aiming for.

But today, I was going to be out of town all day. So yesterday around 10:30 PM I reset TVGOS on one of my Sonys, using the TV Guide --> Reset to Factory Default in the 9012 menu, went through the initial setup, aimed the antenna to get a good strong signal on my best SCETV station, and shut everything off. By midnight the clock had set properly.

I got up early this morning for my trip, and took a peek around 5:30 AM. No channel lineup and no ads, which disappointed me because with the DTVPal+ I had been getting them by 2:30 AM. "Oh well," I thought, "I'll just have to get out the DTVPal+ when I get home tonight."

When I did get home about 9:30 PM, I looked again, and presto, I have both a channel lineup and program listings, and ads, and the Host Chan field in the 753159852 screens reads 0:43-0 as expected for the station I aimed for!

Maybe Rovi/Macrovision tweaked the data. Or maybe the difference is in having a good, strong, uninterrupted signal. For this station, it's always at least 94% and "Good" in the Sony's System menu, when the antenna is aimed correctly. Or maybe I just got lucky. Take your pick...

I'm going to go out on a limb, and speculate why the DTVPal DVR "works fine" with the digital TVGOS, but the Sony doesn't.

Have I gone off the deep end, or does any of this sound feasible?


I dunno....... I guess it's possible. But why would MV make the decision to rely on something as notoriously unreliable as PSIP data?

Also, I don't know if this plays into your theory or not...... My Mits TV in the bedroom has V-9 TVGOS. In the setup for the TV, if you enable the Guide, the TV gets it's time from TVGOS. If you disable the Guide, then you can either set the clock manually or set it to automatic. In "automatic" the owners manual states that the clock gets its time from XDS data broadcast by (typically) an analog PBS station. I guess that "automatic" function doesn't work anymore, even though this TV is only 6 months old..........

I attached a link to the TVGOS screens that I know how to access on my Mits. Unfortunately there is no screen (that I know how to get to) that shows TimeZonePkts. I did notice an interesting value though in the HostSUflags field . . . . .

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16314966&postcount=183

I dunno....... I guess it's possible. But why would MV make the decision to rely on something as notoriously unreliable as PSIP data?

Although my post had lots of speculations in it, the PSIP info was not speculation, it is fact. My speculation was that they are using the PSIP clock to calculate the timezone offset information, and they have abandoned TimezonePkts, which the Sony still looks for and uses.

The PSIP concept sounds interesting, until you start reading about the DVR's problems with it. Basically when you first start using the DVR, its TVGOS grid is populated with PSIP data (not 8 days worth, just one day or less), then if TVGOS is available, it lets that data take over, and populates the grid with it. This allows people in areas without TVGOS to continue to use the guide. When it is using TVGOS data, a "TV Guide" logo shows up on the listings screen. That is why I wanted N2VWZ to verify that his "TV Guide" logo was visible, and the DVR was not just using PSIP data (he hasn't replied yet, but I'm sure Macrovision wouldn't have declared that the TVGOS data was good, if the DVR wasn't even using it... would they?).

After reading the DTVPal DVR forum a little, I learned that it also uses PSIP data for clock setting, and they have had problems with the clock drift. I believe that I read that their latest firmware update now does some kind of averaging of the clock data, so turning to a station that has the wrong time won't suddenly throw off the clock. That DVR also has had issues with PSIP data causing the unit to go into a "reboot loop" that you have to unplug the DVR to get out of. Sometimes people have had to disconnect the antenna to get it to come out of it. Some of these reboot issues have been improved in later versions of firmware, but by the recent messages some of these problems still seem to be there. Here's a link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071#A6) to the "Known Issues" section of that forum, check it out for yourself (there's only 7 issues to read about).

As far as why Macrovision chose to use PSIP data, I can only guess that it sounded like a good idea at the time. :)

Mark

No fair making changes while I'm replying. :p

Also, I don't know if this plays into your theory or not...... My Mits TV in the bedroom has V-9 TVGOS. In the setup for the TV, if you enable the Guide, the TV gets it's time from TVGOS. If you disable the Guide, then you can either set the clock manually or set it to automatic.


The DTVPal DVR also gets its time from TVGOS when it is active, however, it states that the PSIP clock bug, also effects the TVGOS, causing recordings to start late, etc.


I attached a link to the TVGOS screens that I know how to access on my Mits. Unfortunately there is no screen (that I know how to get to) that shows TimeZonePkts. I did notice an interesting value though in the HostSUflags field . . . . .

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16314966&postcount=183

That HostSUFlags is interesting. With your Mits host channel set, there are only 6 bits set vs. 9 on the Sony. Apparently the Mits looks for 3 fewer pieces of information than the Sony does, which goes right along with my theory.

Mark

Artec arrived today. This thing seems to be made a zillion times better than the cheapo Insignia box and is about 1/5 the size; but it may weigh more? I think it has a lot of metal in it?If you really believe the Insignia is that cheaply-constructed (for a CECB), all I can say is just be glad you didn't order the DTV Pal Plus instead.

I'm going to go out on a limb, and speculate why the DTVPal DVR "works fine" with the digital TVGOS, but the Sony doesn't.

I missed it the first time I read N2VWZ's message, but his Sony DVR doesn't even have the right time (No TimezonePkts being sent out in his area)...I noticed this morning that my Sony had received its first TimezonePkt in almost a week. Yet at other times, I've seen at least one per day (which one would think would be the norm.) I figure 90% of the issues folks have been having getting to a grid are because these packets are sent inconsistently and/or infrequently. Now why would Rovi/Macrovision be so stingy with these data packets - surely they can't consume much bandwidth?

I noticed this morning that my Sony had received its first TimezonePkt in almost a week. Yet at other times, I've seen at least one per day (which one would think would be the norm.) I figure 90% of the issues folks have been having getting to a grid are because these packets are sent inconsistently and/or infrequently. Now why would Rovi/Macrovision be so stingy with these data packets - surely they can't consume much bandwidth?

I will trade ya!

I get plenty of TimezonePkts everyday; either just the digital CBS OTA, or with just the Artec Box analogue RF 3, or with BOTH.............but still No Grid!

However, have only had the Artec less than 24 hours so still trying to figure it out?

The funny - odd thing is the data rate is Big on either or both methods.......but still No Grid?

Well, after having used the DTVPal+ to get channel lineups OTA on both of my Sonys, last night I decided to try once more to do it without the DTVPal+. Since the last time I tried it, all the SCETV stations in my area have started carrying TVGOS, including the closest one, that gives me the strongest signal. The last time, only one SCETV station was doing it, and its signal can be a bit flaky at times.

Also, during the day, I usually rotate my antenna to various directions, which usually affects reception on stations that I'm not aiming for.

But today, I was going to be out of town all day. So yesterday around 10:30 PM I reset TVGOS on one of my Sonys, using the TV Guide --> Reset to Factory Default in the 9012 menu, went through the initial setup, aimed the antenna to get a good strong signal on my best SCETV station, and shut everything off. By midnight the clock had set properly.

I got up early this morning for my trip, and took a peek around 5:30 AM. No channel lineup and no ads, which disappointed me because with the DTVPal+ I had been getting them by 2:30 AM. "Oh well," I thought, "I'll just have to get out the DTVPal+ when I get home tonight."

When I did get home about 9:30 PM, I looked again, and presto, I have both a channel lineup and program listings, and ads, and the Host Chan field in the 753159852 screens reads 0:43-0 as expected for the station I aimed for!

Maybe Rovi/Macrovision tweaked the data. Or maybe the difference is in having a good, strong, uninterrupted signal. For this station, it's always at least 94% and "Good" in the Sony's System menu, when the antenna is aimed correctly. Or maybe I just got lucky. Take your pick...

I think you may be correct about the Rovi "changes" - about the time I think the box is going to do something is about the time I interfere with it?

If you really believe the Insignia is that cheaply-constructed (for a CECB), all I can say is just be glad you didn't order the DTV Pal Plus instead.

I dunno.........All I want for Christmas is a GRID - really don't care which box it is in? The Artec does look nicely made; but the will be meaningless to me if there is no Grid.

That HostSUFlags is interesting. With your Mits host channel set, there are only 6 bits set vs. 9 on the Sony. Apparently the Mits looks for 3 fewer pieces of information than the Sony does, which goes right along with my theory.


And I discovered a few minutes ago that the Mits can have still another value in HostSUFlags, while having a HostChan set. :confused:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16314966&postcount=183

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=148703&d=1248613365

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=148704&d=1248613365

Bombs Away ! (NYC area, great signals, OTA only)

After a week of "no clock" on the upstairs unit, whist the downstairs unit whirs away perfectly with Guides, Listings and Clock.....

I check the upstairs unit. The ATSC slicer is showing packets and no errors. I get ads but no clock, listings or grid.

It's time. I go up, and do a full factory reset of the unit. Interestingly, it resets back to Software V. .13

After the full reset is complete, I scan for channels as prompted, put in the zip code per TVGOS and shut it off.

I then apply the .21 upgrade patch, run the cycle, and again turn the unit off.

Interestingly, here in the NY DMA we have channel 60 analog still, some sort of home shopping network. All else is digital.

This was done only because the unit spontaneously reset itself and wiped out the listings and grid.

Now that I've run it back to the beginning, hopefully I've cleared out whatever software error has occurred, and I'll leave it alone.

Bizarre. Meanwhile the other unit is running perfectly.

I used a modified approach to jtbell's instuctions above. I simply disconnected my antenna from the Sony and connected it to the DTVPal, and then connected the DTVPal to the Sony. I did an Add Channels from Antenna scan to add channel 3, and then set up the DTVPal per the instuctions. I did a 9012 G* Test and it was receiving VBI packets, and I also did a 963214785 VBI scan of current channel before turning it off for the night. I did NOT do the TVGOS reset to factory defaults, nor did I reset my zip code (per jtbell's instructions)

This morning I checked and IT HAS A CHANNEL LINEUP :D:D:D


when I tested my Sony with my DTVPal, the Sony found 3 as the host channel overnight...it had a blank host channel before that, so I think it was already looking...my Pal output was joined to the antenna input, as described in the link below...

I'm puzzled about why your unit didn't find the channel 3 as host pretty fast...had you otherwise changed your setup in some way?



4. To force host channel if known: (courtesy albertso) *** See update below***
“The code 963214785 (Force Host Channel) will lock the Host channel to the channel in use when activated? There is some danger in using it though. Getting away from this selected channel requires a COMPLETE hardware reset, at least it did in my case. Here is the procedure:
1). Tune to the station, either OTA or Cable that you want to set as host.
2). Go to GUIDE and use the same process that you do to get the diag screen (753...).
3). Enter 963214785. If accepted the message box below will change to "Searching Current VBI Channel." The screen should go away by itself after 5 minutes or so. Wait for it...
4). Turn off overnight and see if the guide info downloads. The 753159852 diag screen should now show the channel you set (right or wrong!!!) when you check it. If you got it right and the channel is carrying the data, the guide should start to fill.”
***Update*** [2/20/2009]
It should be safe to use the force host channel procedure between hosts without a complete reset. (courtesy Jan J)



I get plenty of TimezonePkts everyday; either just the digital CBS OTA, or with just the Artec Box analogue RF 3, or with BOTH.............but still No Grid!

However, have only had the Artec less than 24 hours so still trying to figure it out?


So as of Wednesday evening my DVR hadn't found the new DTVPal Ch 3 host and updated listings. Since I was leaving out of town for a few days I decided I wouldn't try to intervene and just leave it off for a few days. I will be able to check later this evening when I return home, but I have a hunch it will still be without listings.

avnstf question about me changing my setup in some way sparked some research. I also noticed that Terry_L_G did a 963214785 "force host" procedure before turning off the DVR. This was one step I did not perform on my DVR. The last time I did a "force host" was before the analog shutoff on my digital cable host. Perhaps that procedure truly locks the DVR onto that channel and will not allow it to search elsewhere unless some sort of reset is done.

Terry_L_G, did you have to perform another 963214785 procedure on your channel 5.1 after you removed the DTVPal or did it automatically find it on its own?

HoustonPerson, did you try a 963214785 force host procedure while connected to your Artec box?

And I discovered a few minutes ago that the Mits can have still another value in HostSUFlags, while having a HostChan set. :confused:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16314966&postcount=183

Pictures removed



I saw this phenomenon once. After a power outage, my host channel was still set, but my HostSUFlags had changed to 0xbf8 from 0xff8. The bit that had been cleared was the Host ID bit. I went and checked, and the Host ID was still set. During that round of playing with it that bit never did set again. My speculation was that the HostID info will only set once, and since the bit was cleared after it had received that info, it didn't set the bit again. Did you notice in those pictures that it shows two different host channels?

Mark

So as of Wednesday evening my DVR hadn't found the new DTVPal Ch 3 host and updated listings. Since I was leaving out of town for a few days I decided I wouldn't try to intervene and just leave it off for a few days. I will be able to check later this evening when I return home, but I have a hunch it will still be without listings.


I would think after this long, it would have given up on the old host channel, and found the new one. I wouldn't be surprised if you have listings when you get home. Also, did you try the zip code changeroo before you left? I wanted to clarify that doing the "00000" zip code reset is NOT the same as changing the zip code to something else, and then back. The "00000" reset does not clear the host channel which was the goal (I verified this yesterday). I think the 963214785 may do effectively the same thing as the zip code changeroo (basically telling the DVR to stop looking for data on the old host channel, and find another source).

Mark

I would think after this long, it would have given up on the old host channel, and found the new one. I wouldn't be surprised if you have listings when you get home. Also, did you try the zip code changeroo before you left? I wanted to clarify that doing the "00000" zip code reset is NOT the same as changing the zip code to something else, and then back. The "00000" reset does not clear the host channel which was the goal (I verified this yesterday). I think the 963214785 may do effectively the same thing as the zip code changeroo (basically telling the DVR to stop looking for data on the old host channel, and find another source).

Mark

I ended up not trying the zip code changeroo. Since I was leaving for a few days and the DVR would be off, I wanted to see if it would find the new host on its own. Hopefully I have listings when I return home, but if not I will try the zip code changeroo or the 963214785 procedure if that doesn't work.

Bombs Away ! (NYC area, great signals, OTA only)

After a week of "no clock" on the upstairs unit, whist the downstairs unit whirs away perfectly with Guides, Listings and Clock.....

I check the upstairs unit. The ATSC slicer is showing packets and no errors. I get ads but no clock, listings or grid.

It's time. I go up, and do a full factory reset of the unit. Interestingly, it resets back to Software V. .13

After the full reset is complete, I scan for channels as prompted, put in the zip code per TVGOS and shut it off.

I then apply the .21 upgrade patch, run the cycle, and again turn the unit off.

Interestingly, here in the NY DMA we have channel 60 analog still, some sort of home shopping network. All else is digital.

This was done only because the unit spontaneously reset itself and wiped out the listings and grid.

Now that I've run it back to the beginning, hopefully I've cleared out whatever software error has occurred, and I'll leave it alone.

Bizarre. Meanwhile the other unit is running perfectly.

Not to discourage you, but if you are in the same area as this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16880101#post16880101) guy, he hasn't been able to get a clock either (no TimezonePkts I presume).

Mark

I noticed this morning that my Sony had received its first TimezonePkt in almost a week. Yet at other times, I've seen at least one per day (which one would think would be the norm.) I figure 90% of the issues folks have been having getting to a grid are because these packets are sent inconsistently and/or infrequently. Now why would Rovi/Macrovision be so stingy with these data packets - surely they can't consume much bandwidth?

Sounds similar to my area, although I don't think I've ever had just one in a week's time (I have had 3 days go by without getting one though). The week before last I had 6 in one week. This last week, I'm up to a whopping 8 (with still one day to go). I don't get this lack of packets either. A timezonePkt probably doesn't change at all from week to week. The computer basically has to send the same data out over and over again (which they are usually very good at). So you would think the repeating data would get sent out in very regular intervals.

Mark

I am 100% operational. Most of the guide filled in during the day Friday, and overnight last night, it filled in the next Saturday and filled in a few "No Listing" and "No Title" entries.

I'm almost giddy at the prospect of being able to use my DVR again as a DVR with a TV Guide.

I have been without a grid for 7 full weeks, and within 2 days of using the DTVPal (only to get the channel lineup), I now have a fully populated grid. :D:D:D

Happiness returns to Cupertino!
Terry

Congradulations Terry on getting back your grid and listings. One question, what was your firmware level at when you connected your DTVPal Plus? Do to your success, I ordered a DTVPal Plus yesterday and wondered if the firmware needs to be at .21 or .13.

I will trade ya!

I get plenty of TimezonePkts everyday; either just the digital CBS OTA, or with just the Artec Box analogue RF 3, or with BOTH.............but still No Grid!

However, have only had the Artec less than 24 hours so still trying to figure it out?

The funny - odd thing is the data rate is Big on either or both methods.......but still No Grid?Well, you still need LineUpPkts and StationPkts. Are you getting plenty of those too?

Well, you still need LineUpPkts and StationPkts. Are you getting plenty of those too?

At least a couple hundred or more in about 7 days?

own?

HoustonPerson, did you try a 963214785 force host procedure while connected to your Artec box?


The Sony Box showed a host of 1:0-3 which should be the cable RF analogue 3, from the Artec box. I did not do Force Host, but did G Test; it passed the first three lines (including VBI Test) in less than 3-4 seconds - the last two lines fail (forgot what they are?). Also the data coming in on G Test at a good clip. Also the VBI receptions slicer page has data coming in All Three columns. Still No Grid?

Basically, both the OTA digital CBS and Artec box down coverted to analogue CBS both do exactly the same thing, almost all data screens show tons of data coming in.

Clock in less than 30 min. All ads in about 2 hours. Tons of rejected schedules, cast, descriptions etc.

One significant thing the Artec Box did have (that Sony box did not); is the DLTimer is getting date and time stamps.


I had checked the box early this morning about 7AM before I left for the river; just go back in. May not get a chance to look this evening - Wife said she wants the TV and I can't touch it.

tomorrow I may get to pictures AND there is a good possiblity I am not using the Artec box correctly?

Not to discourage you, but if you are in the same area as this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16880101#post16880101) guy, he hasn't been able to get a clock either (no TimezonePkts I presume).

Mark

No, he's in Washington, The State of. I'm in NYC. I did get an email from an engineer at WCBS who informed me that TVGOS was having problems and they were awaiting a new encoder.

I've not had to "recover grid" yet in the digital world, so here's hoping.

The weird part (which would be resolved by your suggestion) is no clock. Before, I got clock quickly even when "no listings" was all over the place.

So Terry_L_G, did you have to perform another 963214785 procedure on your channel 5.1 after you removed the DTVPal or did it automatically find it on its own?


I only did it the one time to lock onto the DTVPal analog signal. I assumed that with the .21 FW that since the 9012 G* Test fails in digital-only, the force host might not work in digital-only either.

Terry

Congradulations Terry on getting back your grid and listings. One question, what was your firmware level at when you connected your DTVPal Plus? Do to your success, I ordered a DTVPal Plus yesterday and wondered if the firmware needs to be at .21 or .13.

It was at .21. I had updated it about 2 weeks previously after a fulkl reset to factory defaults, and I decided I'd just see if it works with the DTVPal, which it did. One other note. The 9012 G* Test normally fails with the new firmware, but it was successful with the DTVPal attached.

teeitup and Terry, Are you guys saying I should do the "Force Host" to the analogue RF 3 on the Artec Box?

teeitup and Terry, Are you guys saying I should do the "Force Host" to the analogue RF 3 on the Artec Box?

HoustonPerson, you said earlier that the DVR had already set the host channel as 1:0-3, so there isn't any reason to do the force host, since it already found the desired host channel.

When you setup the DHG for connecting the Artec, did you just change the TVGOS setup to cable+OTA?

Mark

I only did it the one time to lock onto the DTVPal analog signal. I assumed that with the .21 FW that since the 9012 G* Test fails in digital-only, the force host might not work in digital-only either.

Terry

So how long did it take to switch from the analog host channel back to your digital host channel, when you removed the DTVPal?

Mark

No, he's in Washington, The State of. I'm in NYC. I did get an email from an engineer at WCBS who informed me that TVGOS was having problems and they were awaiting a new encoder.

I've not had to "recover grid" yet in the digital world, so here's hoping.

The weird part (which would be resolved by your suggestion) is no clock. Before, I got clock quickly even when "no listings" was all over the place.

Hmmm... the link should have pointed you to N2VWZ's message. His location says Upstate NY (which I presume isn't the NYC area).

If your clock gets off, it will usually correct itself quickly if the timezone information has not been lost. However, if the timezone information has been lost (which usually happens when you have lost the grid) then the only way to get the clock to set, is to receive a TimezonePkt. If there are no TimezonePkts being sent out in your area, then the clock won't set, and you can't acquire a grid.

Mark

I hope CBS fixes this. I mean, we are New York City, after all..... :)
I don't have time yet, but I do have advertisements six or so hours after reset. Something is being sent and received.
I'll watch the slicer for time zone packets, and drop an email to the guy at CBS inquiring. This unit is mostly for the spousal soaps, and she's gone this week, so it can "simmer". I'll resist the temptation to do anything.

I did have a lot of packets but NO timezonepkts. You are probably (as much as anyone can be with this gadget) right on that account. Thank you, I'll mention them to the engineer.


Buy an HDD and get an education in digital data transfer ! I used to think this was a beta test someone released....but that would be way too generous.

So how long did it take to switch from the analog host channel back to your digital host channel, when you removed the DTVPal?

Mark

I have yet to reaquire a digital host channel after removing the DTVPal. My Host Chan is blank and my HostSUFlags have reverted back to 0xe680000. However, I am receiving updated listings from my CBS station. ATSC slicer page shows current channel activity when tuned to it and all of my packet counts except LineupPkts show increases each time I check them.

Terry

HoustonPerson, you said earlier that the DVR had already set the host channel as 1:0-3, so there isn't any reason to do the force host, since it already found the desired host channel.

When you setup the DHG for connecting the Artec, did you just change the TVGOS setup to cable+OTA?

Mark


Honestly I do not remember now. This weekend has been a little much; the actual Host Channel may have been blank? Maybe I have pictures? I am almost certain the line "below" Host Chan had 1:0-3.

TVGOS set up first time I did "cable only" (RF 3 with box set to TVGOS mode)..........If I recall correctly by late saturday afternoon it had gone through about 25 "num search" and it had created DLTimer date/time stamps, AND the Reception slicer page had data in All three columns (including Host Column).

Late Saturday I did Reset "Factory Defaults" with both cable + OTA, Sunday morning no Grid (and I left for the River); but left it tuned to digital CBS (not the Artec RF3).

Last night I tuned it back to Artec RF 3 AND "forced host", and turned it off, And today...............I am not awake yet, but will be in the next couple of hours.

Short Story: I have done everything "wrong" that a person could do. HA!

This week may be a bigger mess than last week; will be gone a lot, and when I am here at 10 min at a time, is just enough time for me to make it worse!

Need a vacation bad!

I have yet to reaquire a digital host channel after removing the DTVPal. My Host Chan is blank and my HostSUFlags have reverted back to 0xe680000. However, I am receiving updated listings from my CBS station. ATSC slicer page shows current channel activity when tuned to it and all of my packet counts except LineupPkts show increases each time I check them.

Terry

I stated that poorly, I should have asked how long it took for the host channel to blank, and listings to resume. If you could get a host channel, you wouldn't have needed the DTVPal.

Mark

The unit reset yesterday now has a clock ! There are also more new ads.
We shall see how long it takes here in the NY DMA to resurrect the mighty grid, but there is progress.

I guess it was my unit, not WCBS NY. Probably something buggy in the analog-digital-on-off-transition-TVGOS data stream changes-voltage surge-mars in retrograde thing.

Clock in less than 24 hours is great progress.

Ok, Host Channel did not set last night? Did some say that the .21 software keeps the Force Host from working?

Anyway doing a 9012 TVGOS reset and force host now to the Artec RF 3 (in progress).

Ok 9012 TVGOS reset is complete, most screens back to zero and clock --:--; so naturally force host is blank; will leave it tuned to RF 3 Artec......data is zoomin in tho.

Ok, Host Channel did not set last night? Did some say that the .21 software keeps the Force Host from working?


Doing the reset, and then leaving it tuned to Digital CBS was probably the problem. It would have found the Digital CBS TVGOS data, and wouldn't have searched out cable channel 3.


Anyway doing a 9012 TVGOS reset and force host now to the Artec RF 3 (in progress).

Ok 9012 TVGOS reset is complete, most screens back to zero and clock --:--; so naturally force host is blank; will leave it tuned to RF 3 Artec......data is zoomin in tho.

That should work, now keep your hands off of it for 24 hours. ;)

Mark

I stated that poorly, I should have asked how long it took for the host channel to blank, and listings to resume. If you could get a host channel, you wouldn't have needed the DTVPal.

Mark

:) I thought that was what you meant. When I pulled the DTVPal out, I also changed the zip code to a nearby zip code. I believe the host channel blanked immediately, and when tuned to CBS (5.1 RF 29) I was receiving packets on the current channel column in the ATSC slicer screen. I turned it off for the day and went to work. That evening, it had filled in all of the 8 days of listings with sporadic No Listing and No Title entries. By the next morning those were filled in as well.

Does that answer your question?

Terry

Ok, Host Channel did not set last night? Did some say that the .21 software keeps the Force Host from working?

Anyway doing a 9012 TVGOS reset and force host now to the Artec RF 3 (in progress).

Ok 9012 TVGOS reset is complete, most screens back to zero and clock --:--; so naturally force host is blank; will leave it tuned to RF 3 Artec......data is zoomin in tho.

Did you check the TVGOS patch level? When I did a TVGOS reset, I had to wait a bit over 24 hours for it to get back to the TVGOS 08.06.44 patch level. I'm pretty sure that is one of the prerequisites to actually locking on to the host channel.

Terry

When I pulled the DTVPal out, I also changed the zip code to a nearby zip code. I believe the host channel blanked immediately, and when tuned to CBS (5.1 RF 29) I was receiving packets on the current channel column in the ATSC slicer screen.

Does that answer your question?

Terry

That is exactly what I was after (why I didn't just ask if there was something you did to get it to forget the DTVPal host channel, instead of beating around the bush, I don't know :o).

Mark

That should work, now keep your hands off of it for 24 hours. ;)

Mark

Yes I will do that.

Terry, normally the clock is correct in less than 30 min, patch 08.06.44 is about 5 hours max with either Artec only or digital CBS only. The both set very fast.


With Digital CBS only it will do NumSearch automatically every 4 days (ONE per 96 Hours). With Artec only it will do NumSearch at TEN per night AND set the DLTimer.


I really do not think there is a problem with the Artec box. The Local TVGOS downloads must be defective?


Now this is "odd" the digital CBS has only one digital StID 5319 ? with the digital download schedule.

However;

The Artec box has the Old Four StIDs for Houston, and each of those is the old analogue DL schedule. Why would there be FOUR StID's with only ONE station broadcasting TVGOS? Maybe the other THREE are for, cable services TVGOS DLs?

Miscellaneous Pictures

Pic 7547: This HostSUFlag was obtained with a “00000” Kick after the box had stayed at 0xe68 5 days.

Pic 7549: The matching Section Reception to the picture above

Both the above are digital only – before the Artec.

Pic 7559: It gets correct time and patch very fast with Artec (to me the same speed as digital DLs only)

Pic 7563: It even sets DLTimer fast

Pic 7565 7566 7567 7568 All analogue Artec – HostChannel was/is blank

As of now 7568 is the last picture taken.

remaining pics

Miscellaneous Pictures

Pic 7547: This HostSUFlag was obtained with a “00000” Kick after the box had stayed at 0xe68 5 days.

Pic 7549: The matching Section Reception to the picture above

Both the above are digital only – before the Artec.

Pic 7559: It gets correct time and patch very fast with Artec (to me the same speed as digital DLs only)

Pic 7563: It even sets DLTimer fast

Pic 7565 7566 7567 7568 All analogue Artec – HostChannel was/is blank

As of now 7568 is the last picture taken.

Picture 7563 indicates in LastASetEnd that the HostChan apparently did actually set on 7/26.
But why is NumSearch at qty 4 on picture 7563 while it is qty 5 on picture 7547?
TotFrTape in picture 7568 apparently indicates some bad data is coming through. I've never seen a value other than zero in that field on my units.

NYC DMA OTA Only. WCBS 2.1 TVGOS provider.

Sunday @ 11:00 am, total reset from service menu including all recorded shows then a re-patch to S/W version .21.
No Clock at 11:00 pm.

Monday @ 8:00 am, clock has returned over the evening. No Grids or Listings.
Monday @ 11:00 am-THE GRID IS BACK. Listings filling in, about half the channels have some listings. Did the grid always have black dividers ? I seem to recall silver ones. Anyway, it's a grid.

Not bad...grid in 24 hours from a total wipe and reset.:D

>Picture 7563 indicates in LastASetEnd that the HostChan apparently did actually set on 7/26.

But HostChan was blank.

>But why is NumSearch at qty 4 on picture 7563 while it is qty 5 on picture 7547?

7547 was after several days (almost a week on digital CBS only)

Pic 7563 what just an hour or two on analogue Artec RF 3

>TotFrTape in picture 7568 apparently indicates some bad data is coming through. I've never seen a value other than zero in that field on my units.

During old analogue days and also mixed use days, my box often had values there........sometimes would change.......sometimes NA, never knew why. Never affected box AFAIK see pic 7002

>Picture 7563 indicates in LastASetEnd that the HostChan apparently did actually set on 7/26.

But HostChan was blank.

[...]


Here's what I see in picture 7563...

At 5:18am yesterday morning your host channel set. A download was then scheduled to happen at 5:31am. the download didn't happen, because of some "event" that apparently occured at 5:25am (which blanked the host channel). Then at 7:00am you took those pictures.

Yesterday at 5:45pm, you said in a post that the host channel had set to 1:0-3. Was it set then (5:45pm), or was it Saturday evening that it was set? I believe that you mentioned in that post that you had been gone all day, and that you wouldn't be able to look at it again until later, which is why I was wondering if it was Saturday that you saw it was set, since it was blank when you looked at it Sunday morning.

I'm just confused about when it was set... you mentioned later that you weren't sure it was the host channel, or the VBI channel, but you made other comments in that post that proved (to me anyway) that the host was set. You said there were counts in all three columns of the Section Slicing page. You also pointed out the DLTimer field having a time in it (this only happens when your host is set).

Mark

I ended up not trying the zip code changeroo. Since I was leaving for a few days and the DVR would be off, I wanted to see if it would find the new host on its own. Hopefully I have listings when I return home, but if not I will try the zip code changeroo or the 963214785 procedure if that doesn't work.

So I just turned on my DVR for the first time since Wednesday, 7/22 and was greeted with listings.:) I only have listings for days 1,2,4,5 & 8 so the host must have finally set fairly recently. According to the “Section VBI Data”, the LastASetEnd value is 7/27/09 16:19:07. This is about 8 days after first hooking up the DTVPal. This was without any zip code changeroos or force host procedures. Perhaps this amount of time would have been decreased with some sort of intervention.

Here's what I see in picture 7563...

At 5:18am yesterday morning your host channel set. A download was then scheduled to happen at 5:31am. the download didn't happen, because of some "event" that apparently occured at 5:25am (which blanked the host channel). Then at 7:00am you took those pictures.

Yesterday at 5:45pm, you said in a post that the host channel had set to 1:0-3. Was it set then (5:45pm), or was it Saturday evening that it was set? I believe that you mentioned in that post that you had been gone all day, and that you wouldn't be able to look at it again until later, which is why I was wondering if it was Saturday that you saw it was set, since it was blank when you looked at it Sunday morning.

I'm just confused about when it was set... you mentioned later that you weren't sure it was the host channel, or the VBI channel, but you made other comments in that post that proved (to me anyway) that the host was set. You said there were counts in all three columns of the Section Slicing page. You also pointed out the DLTimer field having a time in it (this only happens when your host is set).

Mark

I am leaving it alone till in the morning and take more pictures; because I no longer remember what it is doing. Seems like for a day or two DL timer keep setting with new date time stamps; but DL70 that did try to DL were always blacklisted? and the rest of the DL IDs were inactive (blank).

I did just peek at it a minute ago. Host Channel is blank, DL Timer has a date time stamp. Odd number in HostSUFlags never seen by me before, there has only be "one" DL 81 so far today since the 9012 TVGOS reset to "00010" and it is tuned to Artec RF 3. Clock is correct, but no ads, and the correct patch is in place. If I recall it had 2 NumSearch since this morning.

It will be "off" till morning.

Here's what I see in picture 7563...

At 5:18am yesterday morning your host channel set. A download was then scheduled to happen at 5:31am. the download didn't happen, because of some "event" that apparently occured at 5:25am (which blanked the host channel). Then at 7:00am you took those pictures.


Mark

I looked at the calendar. That was Sunday morning, and I intentionally left the box off until "after" what I thought was to be the DL 27 (to be finished by 6:36AM). So it was just about 7AM when I turned on the box and took the pictures.

What was the "event" that blanked the host? It was not me, cause I did not turn it on.

I would assume tomorrow morning after 7AM would be ok time to turn it on? (it shoud be starting a DL 70 then?)

I will take a lot of pictures in the morning, that is the only way to remember.

What was the "event" that blanked the host? It was not me, cause I did not turn it on.


Hmmm . . . A "kick in the pants" maybe ??? :D :D :D

TotFrTape in picture 7568 apparently indicates some bad data is coming through. I've never seen a value other than zero in that field on my units.

I have to retract my statement about TotFrTape on my units. All of a sudden this afternoon I have counts in the 20's in this field. This is the first time I've ever seen this occur. Anyone else?

[...]
What was the "event" that blanked the host? It was not me, cause I did not turn it on.


I don't know... which is why I called it an "event".


I would assume tomorrow morning after 7AM would be ok time to turn it on? (it shoud be starting a DL 70 then?)

I will take a lot of pictures in the morning, that is the only way to remember.

Without a grid it probably doesn't matter if you interrupt the ID70 download (the packets are all rejected anyway). However, remember that you are analog, and unlike the digital downloads, turning on the DVR during a download, even if the DVR is tuned to your host channel will stop the download (resulting in the 'Blacklisted' entries that you see).

Mark

I really do not think there is a problem with the Artec box. The Local TVGOS downloads must be defective?

Now this is "odd" the digital CBS has only one digital StID 5319 ? with the digital download schedule.

However;The Artec box has the Old Four StIDs for Houston, and each of those is the old analogue DL schedule. Why would there be FOUR StID's with only ONE station broadcasting TVGOS? Maybe the other THREE are for, cable services TVGOS DLs?
MY experience with the DTVPal in my area is similar, except that I AM getting digital listings (with blank host channel)...in this mode , there is only one set of DLs in the schedule, with the digital DL types.

When I add in the Pal output to the antenna input, my Sony latches onto channel 3 analog as the host channel very rapidly. At first (as I remember) the DL schedule then goes back to showing a digital schedule and FIVE analog DL schedules, but by the next day the digital schedule has disappeared entirely...I assume (like you) that the analog schedules are for cable purposes, though presumably they also include the legacy schedule for use of the Pal (or Artec), because I did get listings downloads in the apparently analog format - i.e., back to 1,2,5,8 days - with this setup and with 3 as the host channel.

So far I haven't noticed anyone declaring success with the Artec (and in my case, the Pal, while successful with the Sony, does NOT work for my v7 3410a...I get clock and channel lineup, but the unit doesn't accept the listings, even though its diagnostic screens do show A and B packets, the types the 3410a requires).

MY experience with the DTVPal in my area is similar, except that I AM getting digital listings (with blank host channel)...in this mode , there is only one set of DLs in the schedule, with the digital DL types.

When I add in the Pal output to the antenna input, my Sony latches onto channel 3 analog as the host channel very rapidly. At first (as I remember) the DL schedule then goes back to showing a digital schedule and FIVE analog DL schedules, but by the next day the digital schedule has disappeared entirely...I assume (like you) that the analog schedules are for cable purposes, though presumably they also include the legacy schedule for use of the Pal (or Artec), because I did get listings downloads in the apparently analog format - i.e., back to 1,2,5,8 days - with this setup and with 3 as the host channel.

So far I haven't noticed anyone declaring success with the Artec (and in my case, the Pal, while successful with the Sony, does NOT work for my v7 3410a...I get clock and channel lineup, but the unit doesn't accept the listings, even though its diagnostic screens do show A and B packets, the types the 3410a requires).

When using the DTVPal, do you set the DHG to your real zip code, or the "fake" zip code? Do you think it matters? I noticed HoustonPerson is using the fake zip code, and I was under the impression that you had tried both... or was it the 3410a you had tried using both on?

Mark

For those of you in the SF Bay area, I thought you might be interested in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16898064#post16898064) message from the DTVPal DVR forum. Apparently this person has been without TVGOS on his DTVPal DVR for a couple of months, and it started working again recently. I thought you guys might check your DHGs, and see if you notice whether anything has changed or not.

Mark

When using the DTVPal, do you set the DHG to your real zip code, or the "fake" zip code? Do you think it matters?

On the Sony, and other devices that use the TVGOS data directly, you need to use a real ZIP code. It determines which channel lineups you can get. For OTA, I think (but haven't tested it explicitly) the ZIP code has to be in the host station's DMA in order for you to get an OTA channel lineup from it at all. For cable, the ZIP code determines which cable lineups you're offered, corresponding to the cable companies that offer service in your area.

The DTVPal's fake ZIP codes are for use by analog-only TVGOS devices (like analog-only DVD recorders and TVs) that use the DTVPal as a converter box. They're just the DMA's numerical rank according to size. As I understand it, when you use the fake ZIP code for your DMA, you get an OTA channel lineup with channel numbers that the TVGOS device can use to change channels on the DTVPal using an IR blaster. That is, they're the channel numbers that we Sony-users have to send to the DTVPal by hand using a "Scientific Atlanta" remote control, as described in my procedure for using the DTVPal with the Sony.

The Sony doesn't need those "Scientific Atlanta" channel numbers because it doesn't need a converter box for digital TV reception. When it has a valid channel lineup, it can tune the normal digital channel numbers directly.

In unusual situations, you may need to give the Sony some other ZIP code than your own, but it still has to be a real ZIP code. For example, before there were any digital TVGOS host stations in the Greenville SC DMA (where I'm located), I had to use a station in the Columbia SC DMA. Therefore, in order to get a channel lineup, I had to use a Columbia ZIP code. At least, I assumed I had to use a Columbia ZIP code. I don't think I ever tried using my own ZIP code. I always figured it wouldn't work because I'm not in the Columbia DMA, although I can receive most of Columbia's OTA stations.

When using the DTVPal, do you set the DHG to your real zip code, or the "fake" zip code? Do you think it matters? I noticed HoustonPerson is using the fake zip code, and I was under the impression that you had tried both... or was it the 3410a you had tried using both on?

Mark
I tried BOTH on my 3410a...on the Sony, I only used my REAL zip code, because that way you get the listing for the actual OTA channels (rather than fake channels that you would use for the purpose of making recordings if you had a device that only recognized analog channels...)

For those of you in the SF Bay area, I thought you might be interested in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16898064#post16898064) message from the DTVPal DVR forum. Apparently this person has been without TVGOS on his DTVPal DVR for a couple of months, and it started working again recently. I thought you guys might check your DHGs, and see if you notice whether anything has changed or not.

Mark
no change with my unit...still getting listings from CBS 5.1 via my blank host channel///:rolleyes: (wish the same were true for my 3410a and my DTVPal)

On the Sony, and other devices that use the TVGOS data directly, you need to use a real ZIP code. It determines which channel lineups you can get. For OTA, I think (but haven't tested it explicitly) the ZIP code has to be in the host station's DMA in order for you to get an OTA channel lineup from it at all. For cable, the ZIP code determines which cable lineups you're offered, corresponding to the cable companies that offer service in your area.

The DTVPal's fake ZIP codes are for use by analog-only TVGOS devices (like analog-only DVD recorders and TVs) that use the DTVPal as a converter box. They're just the DMA's numerical rank according to size. As I understand it, when you use the fake ZIP code for your DMA, you get an OTA channel lineup with channel numbers that the TVGOS device can use to change channels on the DTVPal using an IR blaster. That is, they're the channel numbers that we Sony-users have to send to the DTVPal by hand using a "Scientific Atlanta" remote control, as described in my procedure for using the DTVPal with the Sony.

The Sony doesn't need those "Scientific Atlanta" channel numbers because it doesn't need a converter box for digital TV reception. When it has a valid channel lineup, it can tune the normal digital channel numbers directly.

In unusual situations, you may need to give the Sony some other ZIP code than your own, but it still has to be a real ZIP code. For example, before there were any digital TVGOS host stations in the Greenville SC DMA (where I'm located), I had to use a station in the Columbia SC DMA. Therefore, in order to get a channel lineup, I had to use a Columbia ZIP code. At least, I assumed I had to use a Columbia ZIP code. I don't think I ever tried using my own ZIP code. I always figured it wouldn't work because I'm not in the Columbia DMA, although I can receive most of Columbia's OTA stations.

I will be helping my daughter move today (phase I of that!); so have decided just to leave the Artec "on" and the Sony "off" until tomorrow. As it is, the Sony box is set to "00010" fake?

So since (whenever, 1 or 2 days?) the Artec (set in TVGOS mode) has been feeding the Sony RF3 analogue. And the Sony is cable+OTA, the Sony is set on RF3 while off.

The remote control thing - I have no idea, I could never get it to work, to me I do not know if it is suppose to OR if it is important.........the Sony Info screens says it is getting everything from the Artec (just like is has the last month from OTA only)? Do my previous pictures on Artec show it is getting what it needs? I set up a Sony Universal remote for "every" Hamlin/Regal remote code there is - and get zero response (only did this while the Artec was in TVGOS mode).

I am not using the G-Link on the Sony to Artec. Is that correct? OR I am supposed to use it? And what would it do?


Side Note: Zip Codes - Prior to receiving the Artec; I have tried fake zip code, real zip code, and adjacent zip code on the Sony Box. ALL of those give the exact same response! The Same Data input and flow rates; EXCEPT I could usually get to 0xe78 faster with "00010" than with Real or Adjacent. Both real and fake would get to 0xe68 at the same speed. ALL of those changes were started the same way with the "00000" reset first.


Assuming I am still No Grid tomorrow morning (Wed); then I am open to suggestions including even Reset Factory Defaults (again), and leaving just the .05 original software in the box, set to cable+OTA, and feeding Artec RF 3 for a few days. Maybe that would force it too a analogue Host with Grid?

Like I say - suggestions.

With Digital CBS only it will do NumSearch automatically every 4 days (ONE per 96 Hours). With Artec only it will do NumSearch at TEN per night AND set the DLTimer.


This statement was what caught my eye. Ten numsearches a night is not the correct operation. The one picture you posted indicated that the DHG had set the host channel, and then minutes later cleared it, and started another search. Apparently it was doing this all night long, which is why you had so many numsearches overnight. It should have set the host channel after one numsearch, and been finished.

As it is, the Sony box is set to "00010" fake?

[...]

Side Note: Zip Codes - Prior to receiving the Artec; I have tried fake zip code, real zip code, and adjacent zip code on the Sony Box. ALL of those give the exact same response! The Same Data input and flow rates; EXCEPT I could usually get to 0xe78 faster with "00010" than with Real or Adjacent. Both real and fake would get to 0xe68 at the same speed. ALL of those changes were started the same way with the "00000" reset first.

[...]

Like I say - suggestions.

My only suggestion, is to go back to the real zip code (I'd do that first thing today). You are too distracted by how fast the data comes in. That has nothing to do with anything. It doesn't matter how fast you get to a dead end, it is still a dead end. Despite how much "better" it seemed to work with the fake zip code, in the end it was still broke. An example of the varying rates the data comes in, is my TimezonePkts. Usually I average about one a day, but sometimes I'll go three days without getting one. If I reset my DVR during one of these "droughts", it will take at least 3 days to get it back up and running, however if I reset on a day I get a timezone packet, it usually recovers a grid in less than 24 hours.

Mark

I had my unit hooked to Cable with a cable card installed here in Seattle. Channel 90 on comcast was a duplicate of the standard definition CBS station. All worked well up until a week ago. I began losing days of guide data until finally there was no grid and guide listings.
I moved unit to living room and connected up OTA only and re-scanned. I began seeing packets on the 753159852 test under ATSC slicing. After a few days, no grid and the infamous message: "The guide is updating and should be ready in 24 hours"
Here is where it gets wierd. I went into the Search menu within the TV Guide and could search for movies, sports and all kinds of stuff. It was all there. I am getting data right? So why isn't the grid being rebuilt?
I'm currently playing back an analog tape from a VCR that I made a few months ago hoping to rebuild the grid that way.
I am at firware 8.06.44

Any luck yet? My unit stopped downloading listings about a week ago-I live in Bellevue and am on Comcast cable only. I see channel 90 has vbi downloads, and I've done a force vbi several times with no success. Fortunately, there aren't many shows I want to record now anyway, but it's frustrating to say the least.

Ok, who would like to analyze the pictures and recommend next steps? It has been un-touched and off, while Artec was in TVGOS mode RF 3 for 2 days, set to zip “00010”?

Leave it alone for another night?
OR
Zip Change to "00000" and back to "actual"?

pictures

Pic 7585 may be the most telling. But what is it telling? What is going on?

pics

Ok, who would like to analyze the pictures and recommend next steps? It has been un-touched and off, while Artec was in TVGOS mode RF 3 for 2 days, set to zip “00010”?

Leave it alone for another night?
OR
Zip Change to "00000" and back to "actual"?
WHAT UNIT is set to 00010???

For use with the Sony, it shouldn't matter what zip the ARTEC is set to when in TVGOS mode...it is the SONY that discriminates among the TYGOS data for different zip codes in the TVGOS stream from the Artec, and what you want is data for YOUR zip code...

You also mention something about NOT using a remote in your posts...in the case of the DTVPal, although you get an analog video output on channel 3 when the Pal set in TVGOS mode while tuned to the local station transmitting digital TVGOS, the Pal does NOT convert and insert the digital legacy TVGOS stream into vbi of the output analog video UNLESS it is activated using an SA-box signal, as described in the link below about using the Pal with my 3410a...

The Artec may, of course, start outputting the TVGOS vbi without needing this activation...

(As noted in my earlier posts, I did seem to get full data needed by the Sony with my Pal setup, but my 3410a - while it DID get clock and channel lineup - would not get LISTINGS from the Pal)

I am changing the Sony Box back to actual zip code from "00010"


>>

You also mention something about NOT using a remote in your posts...in the case of the DTVPal, although you get an analog video output on channel 3 when the Pal set in TVGOS mode while tuned to the local station transmitting digital TVGOS, the Pal does NOT convert and insert the digital legacy TVGOS stream into vbi of the output analog video UNLESS it is activated using an SA-box signal, as described in the link below about using the Pal with my 3410a...


I guess the Artec does? just by selecting TVGOS mode. VBI Test "pass" and as seen it appears all other data comes into the Sony Box from the Artec - but perhaps the data is bad because of the zip code.

Perhaps I do not understand this "activation" process? Or what is necessary to get that done?

>>>The Artec may, of course, start outputting the TVGOS vbi without needing this activation...

How do you tell if this has been completed?

Will see what happens in the morning.

I am changing the Sony Box back to actual zip code from "00010"


>>>The Artec may, of course, start outputting the TVGOS vbi without needing this activation...

How do you tell if this has been completed?

Will see what happens in the morning.
I think if you actually see B and C packets counting in your analog diagnostic screens (or with the G* test), that means the artec is putting TVGOS into the vbi...

I set up a Sony Universal remote for "every" Hamlin/Regal remote code there is - and get zero response (only did this while the Artec was in TVGOS mode).



Why are you trying to use Hamlin/Regal remote code? My understanding is that Scientific Atlanta code is the standard output from a G-Link cable used for TVGOS devices. It might be worth firing a SA programmed remote with the host channel number at the Artec as described in the DTVPal procedure.

Why are you trying to use Hamlin/Regal remote code? My understanding is that Scientific Atlanta code is the standard output from a G-Link cable used for TVGOS devices.That's just specific to the DTV Pal - the Artec can apparently only be controlled using a Hamlin/Regal code.

pictures

Pic 7585 may be the most telling. But what is it telling? What is going on?

Picture 7585 is telling that you had a HostChan set again. Maybe if your Sony had been set to the proper zipcode you would have a Grid???

I thought I would track TVGOS for a month. Just for fun.

Listing display switch/update time is 03:00am EDT or EST.
Results from two HDD-DHD250 with .13 update, checked at 7am.
Cable only from same host channel. Only B & C packets. No cable card.

Mon 6/29 - no ads & no listings for following Wed & Sat
Tue 6/30 to Mon 7/6 - full - no data missing
Tue 7/7 - listings end following Tue @ 3am
Wed 7/8 - same as 7/7
Thu 7/9 - Sat, Sun, Mon - no ads
- Tue, Wed, Thu - no ads, no listings.
Fri 7/10 - all ok except following Wed no listings
Sat 7/11 to Thu 7/16 full
Fri 7/16 - no ads, following Fri no listings
Sat 7/18 to Wed 7/29 - full - a new record for the year

Observations:
Ads and listings do not have a binding relationship. I never ran a 9012 test to watch packets. I turned the units off while tuned to various channels, but never on the host channel. I record every weekday night from 11:30pm to 12:30am and at various prime time hours. I have checked for updates at 12:30am one or twice on Sat and found that day 8 was not filled in yet which means my listings come after 12:30am but before 7am.

Success – The Artec Converter works fine. I was making it too complex. But you do have to write and discover your own instructions.

Special thanks to mabuttra (Mark) and jtbell – everyone working as a team unlocked the doors to make it work.

Observations with Artec Converter and Sony DHG-HDD:

1. G-Link is not required

2. Remote controls codes of Scientific Atlanta or Hamlin/Regal are not required.

3. Entering special remote code/channel of “9” is not required.

AFAIK the above three items have no significance regarding the Artec/Sony combination.


4. All that is required is answer the “yes” “no” question to put the Artec in TVGOS mode, and have it “tuned” to your TVGOS source before you place it in TVGOS mode.

5. And to use your actual “zip code” – it appears using the substitution zip code prevents the box from working correctly? IMHO


I will explain setting up the Artec in greater detail later – but it does seem a good deal easier than the DTVPal box, IMO.



This morning I got the cable/OTA grid (no ads LOL), and finally got to select cable provider – went with the primary for Houston – Comcast (remember I am OTA only).

Pic 7593 – select Comcast or the primary carrier for your market.

Pic 7594 – The was/is tuned to RF 3 which is local CBS 11-1; but Artec shows it as cable 28 OVC – this is NOT important.

Pic 7595 7596 – Host Channel Set – at least for now – LOL

Pic 7603 Correct HostSUFLags – finally

Pic 7605 – 7607 – Notice only DL’s for 70 and 27 – There are no 81’s downloaded? Is 81’s the ads? I have no idea? Anyone care to speculate? Days 1, 2, 5, and 8 are complete in the Grid.

Pic 7611-7612 Section Reception Screens

Pic 7615 Station 13-1 AIR is “real” Station 13-1 Cable is “Bogus” - This is NOT important now.

Pic 7616 VBI Pass – but that does not tell the whole story. It will always passes with substitution Zip Code too?

At this point it is on to Stage Two per JTBELL instructions – time will tell, here are the immediate results. Remove the Artec Box – “00000” off for 6 minutes, then on then to actual zip code.

Pic 7617 All fake cable stations are removed and only actual real OTA are left “on” (will sort later).

Pic 7619 Host Channel is cleared – bye bye

Pic 7620 Key Drops – It is NOT happy, and the Sony Box is “looking for something to do – it had 12-15 Key Drops on the two days following transition day too (June 12th).

Pic 7621 What will happen to DLTimer; will it become bogus too? How/When will it know to start digital downloads?

The real Test will be final completion of Stage Two and the Sony Box becomes stable.

Hopefully, I will know in 48 hours?

Pic 7605 – 7607 – Notice only DL’s for 70 and 27 – There are no 81’s downloaded? Is 81’s the ads? I have no idea? Anyone care to speculate? Days 1, 2, 5, and 8 are complete in the Grid.


Congratulations on your success. The ID81 downloads are part of the Digital TVGOS data, and aren't used for analog.

At this point it is on to Stage Two per JTBELL instructions – time will tell, here are the immediate results. Remove the Artec Box – “00000” off for 6 minutes, then on then to actual zip code.


At this step, did you also change the TVGOS setup back to OTA only?


Pic 7621 What will happen to DLTimer; will it become bogus too? How/When will it know to start digital downloads?

DLTimer will stay where it is until your digital host channel sets, then it will update for three days, and then become inactive again.

Mark

The real Test will be final completion of Stage Two and the Sony Box becomes stable.

Hopefully, I will know in 48 hours?

If left off all day, I bet you'll have 8 days of data by 6:00pm tonight.

Mark

If left off all day, I bet you'll have 8 days of data by 6:00pm tonight.

Mark

I plan to check it during primetime this evening. I am still not expecting Host Channel to set or stay set........but if it keeps the Grid it don't matter.

I do expect to have some more "key drops" until it gets happy with digital - but I do not think that is important to me either.

One thing I did notice with the short review of the Grid this morning - It is more "complete" and "accurate" then it was previously for OTA channels. I do not know if that will remain true?

At this step, did you also change the TVGOS setup back to OTA only?



DLTimer will stay where it is until your digital host channel sets, then it will update for three days, and then become inactive again.

Mark


Yes it is OTA only and the Artec has been removed. Screen one info shows OTA only.

So I just turned on my DVR for the first time since Wednesday, 7/22 and was greeted with listings.:) I only have listings for days 1,2,4,5 & 8 so the host must have finally set fairly recently. According to the “Section VBI Data”, the LastASetEnd value is 7/27/09 16:19:07. This is about 8 days after first hooking up the DTVPal. This was without any zip code changeroos or force host procedures. Perhaps this amount of time would have been decreased with some sort of intervention.

I had some preliminary success with getting listings with the DTVPal, but am back to getting no listings. I'm not quite sure what could be going on here. My host is still showing as channel 3, but I have not received any updated listings for the past two nights. I just have listings for what was days 1,2,4,5 & 8 as of 7/27 (Today, day 3, has no listings). I verified that channel 3 still passes the G* test. Any ideas what could be the problem? Maybe the Seattle CBS (Kiro 7.1) is messed up??

I had some preliminary success with getting listings with the DTVPal, but am back to getting no listings. I'm not quite sure what could be going on here. My host is still showing as channel 3, but I have not received any updated listings for the past two nights. I just have listings for what was days 1,2,4,5 & 8 as of 7/27 (Today, day 3, has no listings). I verified that channel 3 still passes the G* test. Any ideas what could be the problem? Maybe the Seattle CBS (Kiro 7.1) is messed up??

I wish I knew; but I don't. Back in the analogue days all the markets were almost identical. Now in the digital days, I have not found two markets "eactly" the same.

To me it seems St. Louis and New Orleans are almost identical, and Dallas might be a little better (setting up quicker in a digital world); but Houston has been a mess for a long time.

G Test for me has been very dubious. Saying it passes could be of little value – at least here in Houston.

Are you using actual zip code or substitution zip code? Would that make a difference?

I had some preliminary success with getting listings with the DTVPal, but am back to getting no listings. I'm not quite sure what could be going on here. My host is still showing as channel 3, but I have not received any updated listings for the past two nights. I just have listings for what was days 1,2,4,5 & 8 as of 7/27 (Today, day 3, has no listings). I verified that channel 3 still passes the G* test. Any ideas what could be the problem? Maybe the Seattle CBS (Kiro 7.1) is messed up??

It could be a CBS problem, but I'm curious as to why you're still using the DTVPal after you got the grid back? You should be able to resume getting downloads from your digital CBS station without using the DTVPal.

Mark

G Test for me has been very dubious. Saying it passes could be of little value – at least here in Houston.


This has always been true with the G* Test. It only indicates the presence of data nothing more.

Mark

My HDD-250 reported a hard drive error in February and has not worked since. I waited until the digital transition to call Sony. They say they will repair the unit and update the firmware and yes, "it will work with a digital host" (I live in the Dallas/Fort Worth area) for $168 plus one-way shipping. I'm getting along fine with just my Dish HD DVR, but I like having the Sony for the additional OTA and as a backup (especially during college football season). I am wondering if you guys think this model is worth the additional investment, or is there a better way to spend the money and get the same capability? Thanks!

My HDD-250 reported a hard drive error in February and has not worked since. I waited until the digital transition to call Sony. They say they will repair the unit and update the firmware and yes, "it will work with a digital host" (I live in the Dallas/Fort Worth area) for $168 plus one-way shipping. I'm getting along fine with just my Dish HD DVR, but I like having the Sony for the additional OTA and as a backup (especially during college football season). I am wondering if you guys think this model is worth the additional investment, or is there a better way to spend the money and get the same capability? Thanks!

Well, if you get it fixed and decide you don't want it, you could always sell it on eBay or Cragslist. I'm guessing that DHG-250's are fetching more than $170 these days, 'specially since they seem to be working post transition.

ft

Are you using actual zip code or substitution zip code? Would that make a difference?

I am using actual zip code.

It could be a CBS problem, but I'm curious as to why you're still using the DTVPal after you got the grid back? You should be able to resume getting downloads from your digital CBS station without using the DTVPal.

I actually never lost my grid. My listings stopped after my cable company stopped passing TVGOS data. I have emailed them to no success. The second problem is that the inferior tuner in the Sony DVR isn't able to tune my digital CBS OTA. I have a good rooftop antenna setup, and have tried adjusting my antenna to no avail. The DTVPal has no problems tuning the digital CBS so I am trying to also use it to get my listings.

I actually never lost my grid. My listings stopped after my cable company stopped passing TVGOS data. I have emailed them to no success. The second problem is that the inferior tuner in the Sony DVR isn't able to tune my digital CBS OTA. I have a good rooftop antenna setup, and have tried adjusting my antenna to no avail. The DTVPal has no problems tuning the digital CBS so I am trying to also use it to get my listings.

Sorry, I forgot what your situation was. Try this, go into the 753 menu, and check your Host channel, if it is blank then do the zip code reset where you set your zip code to "00000", and then turn off the DVR for 5 minutes, and then turn it back on, and set your zip code back to what it was. That might fix it. If your host channel isn't blank, then that isn't the problem. You may need to do something with the DTVPal. avnstf may be able to advise you on that.

I have a panasonic DMR-E95H DVR that gets data from cable, and about once a month I find that it is no longer getting listings. The zip code reset fixes it everytime (if it isn't a CBS problem).

Mark

My HDD-250 reported a hard drive error in February and has not worked since. I waited until the digital transition to call Sony. They say they will repair the unit and update the firmware and yes, "it will work with a digital host" (I live in the Dallas/Fort Worth area) for $168 plus one-way shipping. I'm getting along fine with just my Dish HD DVR, but I like having the Sony for the additional OTA and as a backup (especially during college football season). I am wondering if you guys think this model is worth the additional investment, or is there a better way to spend the money and get the same capability? Thanks!

Well as of the end of June 2009 DFW seemed to be working fine and dandy. And for $168 it sounds like good insurance to fall back on.

The only real questions is; How long will the DHG-HDD work? 1 year 2, 3 maybe 5.............before Rovi pulls the plug on having TVGOS that works with the Sony Box.

For example: Are you willing to pay $168, and the box works for 2 years and Rovi pulls the plug? IMO, I find it unlikely Rovi support will go beyond 5 more years?

Update from me:

I update the latest firmware after the digital switch, everything works great, no hiccups or glitches. My reception for digital channels is even better now that I have the new firmware also.

Troy

Well as of the end of June 2009 DFW seemed to be working fine and dandy. And for $168 it sounds like good insurance to fall back on.

The only real questions is; How long will the DHG-HDD work? 1 year 2, 3 maybe 5.............before Rovi pulls the plug on having TVGOS that works with the Sony Box.

For example: Are you willing to pay $168, and the box works for 2 years and Rovi pulls the plug? IMO, I find it unlikely Rovi support will go beyond 5 more years?

HP..... I'm curious about the basis for your opinion?

Stage TWO now appears complete.

Full 8 day listings 100%, none are missing.

HostChannel is blank. HostSUFlags is 0xe68 – but this time DLTimer and other important date/times are “set”

The VBIDL pages are the “old” Artec DL’s it does not reflect the digital DL’s. The DL Schedule does of course reflect the digital DL – it is overwritten on top of the four analogue StIDs.

No ads filled in today; but I can tell they are getting ready to fill in during the night.

Have scheduled recordings for the next 8 days. I did take several of the important screens shots, if there are any you need to see let me know, I might have it.

When the change was made from “cable+OTA” this morning to just “OTA” (removing the Artec), the TVGOS lost “one” OTA station 55-1? That is strange – seems it was a part of the Comcast listings; but not the OTA listing? Not a major issue

HP..... I'm curious about the basis for your opinion?


Strictly my opinion and based only on my observations

Even though Sony and Rovi (Microvision) have signed some big “all products” licensing, there still seems to be no real interest in a DVR replacements for the OTA market. All CE companies appear to be only interested in DVR products that will have Big Usage Fees attached (i.e. cable, internet, etc.)

As the DHG-HDD dies from the market - where are the potential replacements? Sony or other companies could make a product - but it is not here yet.

Strictly my opinion and based only on my observations

As the DHG-HDD dies from the market - where are the potential replacements? Sony or other companies could make a product - but it is not here yet.
It might depend on how well the DTVPal DVR does this year...and/or how many would pay more for a better product...

Strictly my opinion and based only on my observations

Even though Sony and Rovi (Microvision) have signed some big “all products” licensing, there still seems to be no real interest in a DVR replacements for the OTA market. All CE companies appear to be only interested in DVR products that will have Big Usage Fees attached (i.e. cable, internet, etc.)

As the DHG-HDD dies from the market - where are the potential replacements? Sony or other companies could make a product - but it is not here yet.

I don't think we will see a product that replaces the DHD. Ever. It doesn't make business/commercial sense. Quality TV viewing just isn't important to enough people.

My dream: a "black box" that provides a clock signal similar to the old XDS support. I would pay a lot for such an item. My greatest fear is that I will wake up some morning and find no TVGOS support from my cable company.

It might depend on how well the DTVPal DVR does this year...and/or how many would pay more for a better product...
I don't think we will see a product that replaces the DHD. Ever. It doesn't make business/commercial sense. Quality TV viewing just isn't important to enough people.The market already has both low-end and high-end solutions for OTA and cable. At the low-end, there's the DTVPal DVR ($250). At the high-end, we have the TivoHD ($250 w/ fees, $600-650 w/o fees), TivoHD XL, and the cable-only Moxi ($799).

At the low-end, no one can match Dish Network's cost structure. Dish (Echostar) already had their own DVR software and maintains a full-time software group for their satellite DVR products. They pay no TVGOS license fees, thanks to a $190 million settlement with Gemstar, and they rely on direct sales and dealer distribution to limit costs (i.e. no retail sales). Other CE vendors must deal with the uncertainty over the TiVo patents, which makes any new, low-cost DVR design with existing technology a risky proposition. If a CE manufacturer pays license fees to both TVGOS and TiVo, it can probably give up any hope of a sub-$300 product with a competitive feature set.

I don't see anyone spending the money necessary to compete with TiVo or Moxi at the high-end. Any CE vendor to do so would almost certainly struggle to hit the volumes necessary to recoup their initial R&D investment, much less turn a profit. TiVo and Moxi aren't standing still either; both continue to invest heavily in R&D. The cable-only Moxi was released a few months ago, and they plan a major update by early fall to address many of the criticisms (lack of SDV dongle support, grid guide). TiVo plans an update this fall to add On Demand support with select providers using an IP return path.

The TivoHD was released back in July, 2007, so it is probably due for replacement in the next 6-12 months. TiVo appears to have passed on the current generation of Broadcom DVR CPUs in favor of the the next-generation (http://www.digitaltvnews.net/content/?p=6233), expected in volume by year's end. In a year's time, I think we're likely to see a new TiVo with all the latest bells and whistles -- a much faster processor, higher resolution text and graphics, 1080p60 output, larger hard drives, etc -- for equal or less money than the current model, thanks to newer, [even] more integrated components.

By late next year, we should also see a few true2way [CableCard] DVRs for purchase that download and run the cable company's own software, rather than software of their own. Running the cable company's software eliminates the high cost (and risk) of DVR software development and the need for most licensing fees, since the cable co is responsible for all guide data and patent licensing. That should allow such cable-only products to reach lower price points (i.e. $300 or less) with high capacity storage. That will make it even more difficult to successfully market new, high-end DVR products.

I had some preliminary success with getting listings with the DTVPal, but am back to getting no listings.

I think I remember someone reporting that the DTVPal's TVGOS data stream stops after a few days for some reason, when it stays on the same channel all the time. If you "tickle" the DTVPal by changing channels (using your "Scientific Atlanta" remote of course) away from and back to your host channel, the TVGOS data starts again.

I'm not an antenna expert but seems to me that your current antenna is better for UHF and the new one adds VHF which you don't need.

Here are some additional thoughts:
Are you sure that the antenna is pointed in the correct direction per antennaweb.org?
Have you checked the connections from antenna to DVR?
If there is a splitter in the line, have you removed it?
Have you redone user configuration in 9012 menu?
Ray

After installing my Winegard 7015, I am now able to receive CBS digital 2.1,
I did a reset of user configuration, did a soft reset then a hard reset (Unplugged the set), and I am now waiting for my clock to set. Funny thing is prior to installing the new Antenna, I did a reset TV Guide to default, and this wiped off my grid, I was using the DVR as a "VCR" since it still had the right time then. I did not think this would wipe off the grid. My recordings ares till intact, and when I check my system menu my firmware version is still 1.21 so I know I did not do a Restore to Factory Default.

I know last time it took a while for me to get my clock back and even longer to get my listings, but in the end, it is all or nothing for me. I do'nt like having recordings that is listed as "Unknown". What is the average time to get the clock back and to have a grid. I remember that back when the 1.21 version was released there seemed to be a difference in opinions as to whether the unit is best turned off (stand by) or left on, tuned to the digital host to get it to set the clock and get a grid.

The market already has both low-end and high-end solutions for OTA and cable. At the low-end, there's the DTVPal DVR ($250). At the high-end, we have the TivoHD ($250 w/ fees, $600-650 w/o fees), TivoHD XL, and the cable-only Moxi ($799).

Some may debate that $250 is low-end. My family thinks a $40 DVD/VCR combo is a good deal.

But, with your amazing depth of knowledge, does there exist a device that uses and/or shows PSIP data? With all the diagnostic displays of the DHD, I would expect such information to be available. The DHD does have an XDS date/count legacy display, so why not show when valid PSIP information is found (and use that for the clock in some user controlled manner)?

[...]
I did a reset TV Guide to default, and this wiped off my grid
[...]


That is what 'TV Guide - Reset To Factory Defaults' does. That is why when going to run the G* Test, you have to be careful, and not select that by mistake (many people have done this). The 'Restore To Factory Defaults' will also wipe the grid, and a lot more.


I know last time it took a while for me to get my clock back and even longer to get my listings, but in the end, it is all or nothing for me. I do'nt like having recordings that is listed as "Unknown". What is the average time to get the clock back and to have a grid. I remember that back when the 1.21 version was released there seemed to be a difference in opinions as to whether the unit is best turned off (stand by) or left on, tuned to the digital host to get it to set the clock and get a grid.

Possumgirl can probably tell you about how long it takes her DVR to set the host channel after it blanks, which should be about the same amount of time that it takes to recover a grid from scratch.

Mark

Some may debate that $250 is low-end. My family thinks a $40 DVD/VCR combo is a good deal.

But, with your amazing depth of knowledge, does there exist a device that uses and/or shows PSIP data? With all the diagnostic displays of the DHD, I would expect such information to be available. The DHD does have an XDS date/count legacy display, so why not show when valid PSIP information is found (and use that for the clock in some user controlled manner)?The TVGOS software on the Sony was never designed to support PSIP program information. When that software was written in 2004, PSIP information was often non-existent and few affiliates made an effort to keep their clocks set correctly. The widespread availability of program information (and a semi-reliable clock) via PSIP is a relatively new development.

The DTVPal DVR displays PSIP guide data when no valid TVGOS signal is found. Even when a TVGOS signal is found, the DTVPal still displays PSIP guide data on channels that lack TVGOS guide data.

Most CECBs display some form of program listing with PSIP information. The DTVPal STB has a traditional grid guide with PSIP information.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/ilovehdtv/Other/DTVPalDVR/programguide_smalltext.png (http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/ilovehdtv/Other/DTVPalDVR/large/programguide_smalltext.png)
DTVPal DVR Guide. Click for larger.

What is the average time to get the clock back and to have a grid. I remember that back when the 1.21 version was released there seemed to be a difference in opinions as to whether the unit is best turned off (stand by) or left on, tuned to the digital host to get it to set the clock and get a grid.

Today I pulled the plug on both units to reconfigure my equipment. When I powered them back up, my 250 acquired time within seconds, and the 500 took about a half hour. I don't know exactly, I just tuned to 2.1 and walked away. In the past, running G test on 2.1 got the clock back within a minute.
On the other hand, getting the grid back took several days. Just be patient.

Ray

PS Changing to a VHF/UHF antenna wasn't the reason you got reception since CBS broadcasts on channel 43.

Today I pulled the plug on both units to reconfigure my equipment. When I powered them back up, my 250 acquired time within seconds, and the 500 took about a half hour. I don't know exactly, I just tuned to 2.1 and walked away. In the past, running G test on 2.1 got the clock back within a minute.
On the other hand, getting the grid back took several days. Just be patient.

Ray

PS Changing to a VHF/UHF antenna wasn't the reason you got reception since CBS broadcasts on channel 43.

You got your clocks back quick because unplugging the DVRs keeps your timezone information. Therefore, your clocks set again the first time they received a clock update from the TVGOS. In the case of reset to factory defaults, the 753 menu clock sets as quickly as you saw, however without timezone information, the DVR has to acquire a timezone packet, before it will set the front panel clock (it needs to know the offset in seconds from GMT). Those timezone packets, for some reason, can be few and far between in some areas, so it can take a few minutes to a few weeks, or sometimes longer to get the clock set.

Mark

Three+ weeks ago, I have lost everything, even using SCTE127 data off of cable that orginally worked. I reset both devices four days ago, but have nothing.

As far as my TV goes, Mits sent me a USB stick with the supposed correct firmware instead of a CF card for the TV (no USB port on the TV). I'm still waiting to find out if I can xfer the files to a CF card and then flash the TV. I assume I can, but don't want to take a chance. At least, not yet.

Today I pulled the plug on both units to reconfigure my equipment. When I powered them back up, my 250 acquired time within seconds, and the 500 took about a half hour. I don't know exactly, I just tuned to 2.1 and walked away. In the past, running G test on 2.1 got the clock back within a minute.
On the other hand, getting the grid back took several days. Just be patient.

Ray

PS Changing to a VHF/UHF antenna wasn't the reason you got reception since CBS broadcasts on channel 43.

It could be just coincidence but I did try everything to tune to 2.1 with my DB4 antenna (UHF) and I could not lock on to CBS. After I installed the Winegard 7015, I was able to tune in without having to do a rescan. Go figure.

I tried the G test on 2.1 but this did not update the clock. Now for the hardest part, the waiting begins.

Stage TWO now appears complete.

Full 8 day listings 100%, none are missing.

HostChannel is blank. HostSUFlags is 0xe68 – but this time DLTimer and other important date/times are “set”

The VBIDL pages are the “old” Artec DL’s it does not reflect the digital DL’s. The DL Schedule does of course reflect the digital DL – it is overwritten on top of the four analogue StIDs.

No ads filled in today; but I can tell they are getting ready to fill in during the night.

Have scheduled recordings for the next 8 days. I did take several of the important screens shots, if there are any you need to see let me know, I might have it.

When the change was made from “cable+OTA” this morning to just “OTA” (removing the Artec), the TVGOS lost “one” OTA station 55-1? That is strange – seems it was a part of the Comcast listings; but not the OTA listing? Not a major issue

HP: Your problems seem to have lasted longer than mine did (I've been fine for a coupe of weeks now.). Out of curiosity, what did you finally do differently this last time than all those previous weeks that finally solved your issues?

HP: Your problems seem to have lasted longer than mine did (I've been fine for a coupe of weeks now.). Out of curiosity, what did you finally do differently this last time than all those previous weeks that finally solved your issues?

The only real issue I had was attempting to use the substitute zip code instead of “actual” mabattra-Mark clued me in there.

I have just posted a procedure for Artec/Sony combination - Get-A-Grid. If there is TVGOS in the air, and you do not have a Grid, then this could work for many in 24 to 48 hours.

http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=188.0

Suggestion: A few pages back, I could not get my HDD to see listings or even get time. Meanwhile, I had another HDD running perfectly so I knew the TVGOS data stream was working.

It may be worth the effort to try the full factory reset. We are in rerun season anyway so you can safely wipe out that episode of Cops....
I found the full reset wipes and zeros the whole unit...including RAM. The display will show "write" when the software is reinput. Make sure your .21 update is handy, as it will revert to .13. This worked when lesser resets (gemstar, zip code games, etc) did nothing.

Bomb the whole thing. Update to .21 - - Enter Gemstar Zip code and scan for channels. You will have to re-do the whole grid when it comes in as well as fix the channels. I think in this case the computer that is the HDD just had some conflict that a reboot would resolve, and the only way to do so would be a full factory reset or the zap PRAM function somewhere in Spiff space pages.

I had full listings in four days, in a fully digital environ, here in NYC. The unit sat for two weeks prior and didn't even get time. My other HDD and a Hi Sense box all had time.

My W-A-G is that like a computer, eventually some bit goes awry and causes things to not work. If your unit has been analog-mixed-digital, with various re-scans and such, then a "start over" might be a good idea, and moreso than the soft reset unplug.

The tuner works faster and the unit no longer hangs up.....get over losing whatever you have recorded and start over. I think finally going all digital cleared up some issues. I'm OTA only outside of NYC with fortunate reception.

I have always thought the HDD box and the TVGOS system were two sets of competing engineers under "one roof".

This will, of course, be addressed in the upcoming HDD 450 and HDD 1000.

Just kidding. as far as the 450 and 1000 go, anyway....

It could be just coincidence but I did try everything to tune to 2.1 with my DB4 antenna (UHF) and I could not lock on to CBS. After I installed the Winegard 7015, I was able to tune in without having to do a rescan. Go figure.

I tried the G test on 2.1 but this did not update the clock. Now for the hardest part, the waiting begins.

Very strange. If your UHF antenna was very old, problem could have been either a bad electrical connection or a bad 300/75 ohm transformer.

In my previous message, I mistakenly reported that my 250 required time immediately after power was re-applied. I hadn't looked close enough to see that the time was off. I didn't discover that error until I went to view the 11pm news. Then I did the G test for about 30 seconds to get the clock back. Since I have the new firmware, the test failed but that didn't keep the clock from getting set.

Ray

Possumgirl can probably tell you about how long it takes her DVR to set the host channel after it blanks, which should be about the same amount of time that it takes to recover a grid from scratch.

Mark

Wish I could be precise, but with these units that's impossible. :D Mine have set the host in as little as 10 hours or less, and as long as 3 days. I've been keeping a log hoping to see some sort of pattern...ain't happening. The host stays set for 3 to 3-1/2 days and TZ packets usually show up for 2 days straight and then not at all for 3 days. For the entire month of July, each of my units got a total of 28 TZ packets.

I had some preliminary success with getting listings with the DTVPal, but am back to getting no listings. I'm not quite sure what could be going on here. My host is still showing as channel 3, but I have not received any updated listings for the past two nights. I just have listings for what was days 1,2,4,5 & 8 as of 7/27 (Today, day 3, has no listings). I verified that channel 3 still passes the G* test. Any ideas what could be the problem? Maybe the Seattle CBS (Kiro 7.1) is messed up??

**Update**Yesterday evening my DVR still hadn’t received any updated listings from the DTVPal since its initial filling in of days 1,2,4,5 & 8 on 7/27. The previous day I had tried to “refresh” the DTVPal by changing the channel then back to most host channel using the SA programmed remote. I also did a zip code change to 00000 then back to real zip and left it off until the next evening (over 24 hours). So when I found I didn’t have any listings, I decided to try to adjust my antenna so I could possibly tune my CBS station directly from the DVR. Probably the topic of a different forum, but I discovered first had how voodoo UHF signals can be. I have tried to improve my CBS reception for some time and ended up with a 10’ mast mounted at my gable peak 20’ above ground. To assist with aiming, I brought my antenna (DB4) down to ground level and was holding it while trying to aim. In the exact same direction as I had it mounted on the mast, I was getting 88% signal. Even more surprising was my signal still was at around 77% with the antenna laying flat on the ground facing straight up in the air! I found the higher I raised the antenna, the worse the signal was, particularly once I raised it above the roof. I am thinking that the house shadows any multipath signals so the only signal was coming from the direction of the tower. Anyways, I was able to adjust the antenna so the DVR can tune CBS directly.

After doing this I ran a G* test. This morning I had full 8 days of listings. One odd thing is that the host is still showing my old DTVPal host 0:0-3 even though I have disconnected it. So the DVR must have been able to build the grid just by running the G* test on my digital host and leaving it tuned to that channel and powering off.

Very strange. If your UHF antenna was very old, problem could have been either a bad electrical connection or a bad 300/75 ohm transformer.


I have a Antennas Direct DB4 and a DB2 antenna. Last night I discovered that the rubber terminal protector on the bottom of the DB2 300/75 ohm transformer was full of water and all corroded. It wasn't sealed tight and had let rain accumulate. Might be something to check for?? The DB4 balun didn't have this problem.

Another user from the Denver area and I did an update. Grid came back and filled in just fine no extra effort required.

Wish I could be precise, but with these units that's impossible. :D Mine have set the host in as little as 10 hours or less, and as long as 3 days.


10 hours to 3 days is much more precise than saying it will take less than a month :)


I've been keeping a log hoping to see some sort of pattern...ain't happening. The host stays set for 3 to 3-1/2 days and TZ packets usually show up for 2 days straight and then not at all for 3 days. For the entire month of July, each of my units got a total of 28 TZ packets.

I keep logs too, and my TZ packet rate is very similar.

Mark

Suggestion: A few pages back, I could not get my HDD to see listings or even get time. Meanwhile, I had another HDD running perfectly so I knew the TVGOS data stream was working.

It may be worth the effort to try the full factory reset. We are in rerun season anyway so you can safely wipe out that episode of Cops....
I found the full reset wipes and zeros the whole unit...including RAM. The display will show "write" when the software is reinput. Make sure your .21 update is handy, as it will revert to .13. This worked when lesser resets (gemstar, zip code games, etc) did nothing.

Bomb the whole thing. Update to .21 - - Enter Gemstar Zip code and scan for channels. You will have to re-do the whole grid when it comes in as well as fix the channels. I think in this case the computer that is the HDD just had some conflict that a reboot would resolve, and the only way to do so would be a full factory reset or the zap PRAM function somewhere in Spiff space pages.

I had full listings in four days, in a fully digital environ, here in NYC. The unit sat for two weeks prior and didn't even get time. My other HDD and a Hi Sense box all had time.

My W-A-G is that like a computer, eventually some bit goes awry and causes things to not work. If your unit has been analog-mixed-digital, with various re-scans and such, then a "start over" might be a good idea, and moreso than the soft reset unplug.

The tuner works faster and the unit no longer hangs up.....get over losing whatever you have recorded and start over. I think finally going all digital cleared up some issues. I'm OTA only outside of NYC with fortunate reception.

I have always thought the HDD box and the TVGOS system were two sets of competing engineers under "one roof".

This will, of course, be addressed in the upcoming HDD 450 and HDD 1000.

Just kidding. as far as the 450 and 1000 go, anyway....


I did updated to .21 firmware then waited for a month with no luck on the grid. So I decided to do the factory reset. I also did the G* test. On the screen, it still says TV Guide boxes on left with no advertisemnet. I got the clock back but I can't update to .21 now. I used two different USB flashes (same one I used first time). What do I need to do now to get 250 to recognize the USB? I am in Las Vegas NV and just use this unit for OTA. Please help....

On my DHG-HDD250, how dow i find what the current FIRMWARE version is? If it needs an update, where can i get one and how is it done?-No info in owners manual that i can find. The only info in the menus is that the SOFTWARE version is 1.2.13. My current problem is that with a cable card inserted, many channels will show program channel number and info,but there is no video or audio. :confused::confused:

My current problem is that with a cable card inserted, many channels will show program channel number and info,but there is no video or audio. :confused::confused:What provider do you have? I'm guessing you have Cox in Arizona.

With Brighthouse, Cox, and Time Warner, you can't receive many SD and HD channels with the Sony, because they are delivered using SDV which Sony does not support. Last I read, Cox in Arizona used SDV for ~55 SD SDV channels and ~15 HD channels.

For now, the TivoHD is the only third-party product that can support SDV channels. Moxi hopes to support SDV by the end of the year. Microsoft is expected to add SDV support [for PC CableCard tuners] at some point in 2010.

OOPS!,found the update link on my own, but in reading what the update does- it does not address the problem of receiving the channel info and no audio/video on the digital channels-probably a cablecard problem? anyone else with this same issue?

On my DHG-HDD250, how dow i find what the current FIRMWARE version is? If it needs an update, where can i get one and how is it done?-No info in owners manual that i can find. The only info in the menus is that the SOFTWARE version is 1.2.13. My current problem is that with a cable card inserted, many channels will show program channel number and info,but there is no video or audio. :confused::confused:

I did updated to .21 firmware then waited for a month with no luck on the grid. So I decided to do the factory reset. I also did the G* test. On the screen, it still says TV Guide boxes on left with no advertisemnet. I got the clock back but I can't update to .21 now. I used two different USB flashes (same one I used first time). What do I need to do now to get 250 to recognize the USB? I am in Las Vegas NV and just use this unit for OTA. Please help....

My suggestion is to keep trying. I had the same problem with my USB stick. When I first downloaded the firmware, I plugged the usb stick in, and it worked the first time. About a month ago, I did the Restore to Factory defaults, and then tried to upgrade again, and couldn't get it to recognize the same USB stick. To get it to work, I think the key was to remove the USB stick from the DVR, unplug the DVR and then plug it back in. After it goes through the reboot cycle, turn the DVR on. Now with it on, plug in the USB stick. I was trying to leave the USB stick plugged in while I cycled power, but never got it to work that way. If that doesn't work, then I'd try it again.

Mark

Three+ weeks ago, I have lost everything, even using SCTE127 data off of cable that orginally worked. I reset both devices four days ago, but have nothing.


videobruce,

I didn't realize you had lost your SCTE-127 data from cable. I thought when you were trying to get your grid back recently, you were just seeing if anything had changed with the OTA data in your area. Have you contacted your cable company about this problem? Also, did you lose all the TVGOS data over cable (G* Test fails), or just the listings (grid full of 'No Listing')? If the G* Test fails, I would say its a cable problem, but if the grid was filled with No Listing, it could be a problem at your CBS station.

A couple of months ago I started losing listings from both OTA (digital), and the SCTE-127 data from cable. After a week, I called my CBS station who assured me that everything was working normally. I let another week go by, and called them again, pleading with them to look into it further. They agreed to, and the next day it was working again.

Mark

My suggestion is to keep trying. I had the same problem with my USB stick. When I first downloaded the firmware, I plugged the usb stick in, and it worked the first time. About a month ago, I did the Restore to Factory defaults, and then tried to upgrade again, and couldn't get it to recognize the same USB stick. To get it to work, I think the key was to remove the USB stick from the DVR, unplug the DVR and then plug it back in. After it goes through the reboot cycle, turn the DVR on. Now with it on, plug in the USB stick. I was trying to leave the USB stick plugged in while I cycled power, but never got it to work that way. If that doesn't work, then I'd try it again.

Mark

I used a kensington cheapie drive. I had no issues. Plug it in, and the HDD should show you a box confirming it is in. Press OK for the update and wait. My understanding is that the .21 software allows TVGOS to see digital data. Try another thumb drive and make sure the folder says "sony". Good luck, these things are not simple.

My suggestion is to keep trying. I had the same problem with my USB stick. When I first downloaded the firmware, I plugged the usb stick in, and it worked the first time. About a month ago, I did the Restore to Factory defaults, and then tried to upgrade again, and couldn't get it to recognize the same USB stick. To get it to work, I think the key was to remove the USB stick from the DVR, unplug the DVR and then plug it back in. After it goes through the reboot cycle, turn the DVR on. Now with it on, plug in the USB stick. I was trying to leave the USB stick plugged in while I cycled power, but never got it to work that way. If that doesn't work, then I'd try it again.

Mark

I followed exactly your instruction and I got it on first attempt. Do I just wait and pray now or should I purchase a DTVPal or Artec try to force it? Am I doomed in Las Vegas on ota tv guide? Any suggestions.... Thanks...

That would make sense except for the fact that i do not have Cox HD, but their first level of digital service, the missing channels are not necessarily HD, and the tv it is hooked up to,a Hitachi 57F710A, same vintage as the HDD250, has a cablecard in its tuner and gets receives those channels correctly .

What provider do you have? I'm guessing you have Cox in Arizona.

With Brighthouse, Cox, and Time Warner, you can't receive many SD and HD channels with the Sony, because they are delivered using SDV which Sony does not support. Last I read, Cox in Arizona used SDV for ~55 SD SDV channels and ~15 HD channels.

For now, the TivoHD is the only third-party product that can support SDV channels. Moxi hopes to support SDV by the end of the year. Microsoft is expected to add SDV support [for PC CableCard tuners] at some point in 2010.

I followed exactly your instruction and I got it on first attempt. Do I just wait and pray now or should I purchase a DTVPal or Artec try to force it? Am I doomed in Las Vegas on ota tv guide? Any suggestions.... Thanks...

You can wait, but you can also go ahead and get an Artec, or DTVPal. It's too bad that the set top box coupon program ended Friday, or you could have gotten $40.00 knocked off the price. TVGOS isn't doomed in Las Vegas, but it may be missing the pieces needed to rebuild a grid.

Mark

Last night the HostSUFlags set back to 0x0000 etc; but DL Timers and other date/time stamps indicated all was ok regarding downloads. This morning HostSUFlags is back to 0xe68. AFAIK it has not gotten above that level since Artec recovery. I could kick it with “00000” and get it to 0xf78; but it would most likely drop back to 0xe68 after a few days, so nothing to be gained there.

On a side note, I will most likely do a soft reset in a week or so, just to clear out the analogue stuff left over from the Artec legacy – but will leave it alone for now since it is operating just fine.

Last night the HostSUFlags set back to 0x0000 etc; but DL Timers and other date/time stamps indicated all was ok regarding downloads. This morning HostSUFlags is back to 0xe68. AFAIK it has not gotten above that level since Artec recovery. I could kick it with “00000” and get it to 0xf78; but it would most likely drop back to 0xe68 after a few days, so nothing to be gained there.


Has your DL Timer field even changed since 7/29? Without a host channel, it should be dead. Based on kwg's data, I wouldn't be surprised if your host channel sets before the weekend.

Mark

Very strange. If your UHF antenna was very old, problem could have been either a bad electrical connection or a bad 300/75 ohm transformer.

In my previous message, I mistakenly reported that my 250 required time immediately after power was re-applied. I hadn't looked close enough to see that the time was off. I didn't discover that error until I went to view the 11pm news. Then I did the G test for about 30 seconds to get the clock back. Since I have the new firmware, the test failed but that didn't keep the clock from getting set.

Ray

Last Friday I noticed that the clock updated to the correct time. Since then I have left the unit turned on tuned to 2.1 (CBS) So far no grid yet. I wonder how long I should wait before going all out and do a Factore Restore? Please give me your estimates, as you may recall I did a TV Guide reset to default which wiped out my Grid early last week.

By the way I have OTA and cable but only get TVGOS via OTA. I live in Fullerton, Orange County Califoria, Broadcast source is Los Angeles.

Thanks

Last Friday I noticed that the clock updated to the correct time. Since then I have left the unit turned on tuned to 2.1 (CBS) So far no grid yet. I wonder how long I should wait before going all out and do a Factore Restore? Please give me your estimates, as you may recall I did a TV Guide reset to default which wiped out my Grid early last week.

By the way I have OTA and cable but only get TVGOS via OTA. I live in Fullerton, Orange County Califoria, Broadcast source is Los Angeles.

Thanks

I wouldn't waste my time doing a factory restore. I also would turn the unit off, and let it do its thing. I bet you'll have a grid by the end of the week (probably sooner).

Mark

The only real questions is; How long will the DHG-HDD work? 1 year 2, 3 maybe 5.............before Rovi pulls the plug on having TVGOS that works with the Sony Box.

...IMO, I find it unlikely Rovi support will go beyond 5 more years?

And why should it? If you buy something that employs a free service you are owed nothing regarding how long that free service remains available.

TVGOS provides (arguably) the worst EPG available. Its only redeeming feature (IMHO; other than being free) is its ability to manually map unscrambled QAM, which, if a user spends enough effort and time, it does very well.

Sony's hi-def DVRs have a significant shortcoming in not allowing users to manually set their clocks. So be it.

Complain to Sony and maybe (maybe!) they'll issue a software patch to overcome that shortcoming. But users have no reason to expect Sony to do anything beyond what was originally offered when the DVRs were sold.

Tonight I lost my audio out through the HDMI connection. Optical works, but having trouble with my component video. Can not seem to get a picture out with them. Not sure what is happening. Did a soft reset, but no luck. Anyone else had similar problem with audio through HDMI?
All I was doing before this was adjusting my antenna in the attic.
Michael

Last Friday I noticed that the clock updated to the correct time. Since then I have left the unit turned on tuned to 2.1 (CBS) So far no grid yet. I wonder how long I should wait before going all out and do a Factore Restore? Please give me your estimates, as you may recall I did a TV Guide reset to default which wiped out my Grid early last week.

By the way I have OTA and cable but only get TVGOS via OTA. I live in Fullerton, Orange County Califoria, Broadcast source is Los Angeles.

Thanks

I have the identical signal situation as yours except in WLA.
Be glad you have the correct time so you can record programs while you are waiting for the grid to reappear. Anything else you do will just delay the process, and probably corrupt the clock. Only thing that may help is to tune to CBS before turning off the set. An automatic way to do that is with the reminder feature - set it to tune CBS a few minutes before the unit is scheduled to go to standby.

Ray

And why should it? If you buy something that employs a free service you are owed nothing regarding how long that free service remains available.

TVGOS provides (arguably) the worst EPG available. Its only redeeming feature (IMHO; other than being free) is its ability to manually map unscrambled QAM, which, if a user spends enough effort and time, it does very well.

Sony's hi-def DVRs have a significant shortcoming in not allowing users to manually set their clocks. So be it.

Complain to Sony and maybe (maybe!) they'll issue a software patch to overcome that shortcoming. But users have no reason to expect Sony to do anything beyond what was originally offered when the DVRs were sold.

That's a lot of "free" that's not so "free". The ability to remap clear QAM implies you have a cable card (not usually free) from your cable supplier (not free). I can't find any content provider that charges specifically for their "guide". The guide lets people set recordings simply. I guess that is worth the price. I can't get TVGUIDE.COM to agree with TITANTV.COM some of the time, but I don't lose sleep over it either.

You're right about the clock. But I light a candle in the hope somewhere there is an engineer making a black box that takes the new time signal from SCTE-127 and converts it to something Sony (and XDS) users can work with.