Has your DL Timer field even changed since 7/29? Without a host channel, it should be dead. Based on kwg's data, I wouldn't be surprised if your host channel sets before the weekend.

Mark

>Has your DL Timer field even changed since 7/29?

Still 7/29 as of this morning. I think this may change every 96 hours (4 days) in Houston? Seems NumSearch is every 4 days also? On the Artec NumSearch changed real fast and HostSUFlags got to 0xff8 real fast.

Last Search Start seems to be every 48 hours? and Last Search End every 24 hours? All of those together seems to be some sort of tumbler effect - that is after 4 days it starts over from ground "zero" and goes back up to 0xe68 real fast..........and there it sits (until it starts again in 4 days)......no Host Channel set.

Maybe Rovi will make Houston work soon?

[QUOTE=JoeKustra;16939859]That's a lot of "free" that's not so "free". The ability to remap clear QAM implies you have a cable card (not usually free) from your cable supplier (not free). I can't find any content provider that charges specifically for their "guide". The guide lets people set recordings simply. I guess that is worth the price. I can't get TVGUIDE.COM to agree with TITANTV.COM some of the time, but I don't lose sleep over it either.

Your statement about the clear QAM contradicts itself in that if it is clear QAM, then no cable card is needed. And in most cases the 1st box or card is free, so I have to agree with fallingwater on the Free aspect. Both Dish/Direct and Cable both charge for their HD dvrs monthly and you end up paying for the guide because of it. Sony and a few others on the other hand which has TVGOS is a completely free service to the consumer. Perhaps there was an additonal cost embeded for this TVGOS in the sell price, but when the DVRs were selling for $250.00, I doubt that its cost was recouped. Thus you have a free service with TVGOS. No monthly fees, no subscription fees, no internet needed and thus no monthly cost therefore.
Not having any other service to compare, for what it does (TVGOS), is a good concept. Not all that hard to learn and use. If my girlfriend can figure it out, then it can't be all bad.
Michael

>Has your DL Timer field even changed since 7/29?

Still 7/29 as of this morning. I think this may change every 96 hours (4 days) in Houston? Seems NumSearch is every 4 days also? On the Artec NumSearch changed real fast and HostSUFlags got to 0xff8 real fast.

Last Search Start seems to be every 48 hours? and Last Search End every 24 hours? All of those together seems to be some sort of tumbler effect - that is after 4 days it starts over from ground "zero" and goes back up to 0xe68 real fast..........and there it sits (until it starts again in 4 days)......no Host Channel set.

Maybe Rovi will make Houston work soon?

Your DLTimer field is dead, it won't change until you get a host channel. It has now been 6 days since your DLTimer field was active, which was when you had a host channel with the Artec. Without a host channel, LastSrchSt updates (cycles) every 4 days, just as NumSearch does. Here's the sequence that happens on that fourth (or fifth) day:

HostSUFlags clears to 0x000, NumSearch increments by one, and LastSrchSt is set to the current time. These three things happen simultaneously. This is also what happens when you do the "00000" reset with no host channel set (which I think you've mentioned before).

As far as the NumSearch changing fast on the Artec, that was the red flag that indicated to me that something was wrong. You had mentioned that it did 10 NumSearches that one night, but that is not the correct operation. It should have done one Numsearch, set the host channel, and been done. Instead it was in some kind of loop setting the host channel, clearing it, doing a NumSearch, setting the host channel, clearing it, etc. That is when I started suspecting that the "fake" zip code was the culprit.

Mark

[QUOTE=JoeKustra;16939859]That's a lot of "free" that's not so "free". The ability to remap clear QAM implies you have a cable card (not usually free) from your cable supplier (not free). I can't find any content provider that charges specifically for their "guide". The guide lets people set recordings simply. I guess that is worth the price. I can't get TVGUIDE.COM to agree with TITANTV.COM some of the time, but I don't lose sleep over it either.

Your statement about the clear QAM contradicts itself in that if it is clear QAM, then no cable card is needed. And in most cases the 1st box or card is free, so I have to agree with fallingwater on the Free aspect. Both Dish/Direct and Cable both charge for their HD dvrs monthly and you end up paying for the guide because of it. Sony and a few others on the other hand which has TVGOS is a completely free service to the consumer. Perhaps there was an additonal cost embeded for this TVGOS in the sell price, but when the DVRs were selling for $250.00, I doubt that its cost was recouped. Thus you have a free service with TVGOS. No monthly fees, no subscription fees, no internet needed and thus no monthly cost therefore.
Not having any other service to compare, for what it does (TVGOS), is a good concept. Not all that hard to learn and use. If my girlfriend can figure it out, then it can't be all bad.
Michael

I'm sorry if it sounded like I dislike the guide. I use it almost daily, as often as I use TVGUIDE.COM and TITANTV.COM and from those three sources I can make a document that shows me what to record for the following week. Right now my DHD is missing ads and day 8 after 3am, but that will probably fill in tonight.

As for costs, it varies so much it's not worth spending time on. I tried to rent a card for my DHD, but my very local company would not activate it. A co-worker, using the same company out of a different office less than 20 miles away, gets one free STB or CC. I'm envious of those who can schedule or switch to a channel with the guide. But both my DHD and Sony Bravia TV display clear QAM256 with four decimal places. Those don't show in the guide at all. The guide does show two QAM64 channels, but I never watch the CW and both channels have no signal anyhow.

The same station on the same cable feed shows up nicely on my Sanyo TV. Example: Weather Channel on Sony TV/DHD is 106.6706 and the Sanyo shows 106-7. If I try to manually record 106-7 on the Sony it just locks up. I love the Sony (I have 3) and the guide is ok with me. Compared to many on this forum my problems are trivial. Should my cable company go SDV, then I'll be forced to change. Until then, I'm quite happy with my system.

I am in the Tulsa OK area. My Sony TV picks up the local NBC 2.1 with a strong signal. My HDD500 does not pick it up when I scan channels and also says 'no signal' when I try to manually tune to 2.1. Same probably with 2.2.
All the other channels are OK.
Anyone know how to fix this?

Assuming you've tried the same antenna feed on both devices, and the signal is strong on the TV, with no dropouts, the PSIP data could be a bit out of spec on that channel. Maybe a certain data field is missing or has an invalid value. Tuners vary in how much or what kind of out-of-spec data they can tolerate. You should contact the station's engineers about it.

For a long time, one of my stations never showed up in the channel list after a scan, although I could tune to it manually using the virtual channel number (33.1 etc.) after doing a scan.

As far as the NumSearch changing fast on the Artec, that was the red flag that indicated to me that something was wrong. You had mentioned that it did 10 NumSearches that one night, but that is not the correct operation. It should have done one Numsearch, set the host channel, and been done. Instead it was in some kind of loop setting the host channel, clearing it, doing a NumSearch, setting the host channel, clearing it, etc. That is when I started suspecting that the "fake" zip code was the culprit.

Mark

Yes very true. One of the key points I was making is that with the Artec and correct zip code the Sony Box will set HostSUFlags to 0xff8 very fast. Somewhere between 4-12 hours; depending upon when all is set into motion.

Thanks again for your help on the zip code.


Since there is both (for now and do not know how long it may last) "legacy" and "normal" TVGOS downloads via CBS Digital - then if there might be something wrong with the signal (bad reception, electrical interference, etc) causing some sort of "truncation" to the digital "normal" that would be preventing setting HostChannel with correct HostSUFlags?

I have thought about running RG6 quad core direct from the Sony upstairs and into the attic - but 50 feet of 18" high crawl space in 200 degree heat is not my idea of fun. Nothing like choking on hot fiberglass, while being stuck.

Well the audio is back trough the HDMI cable. Not sure what happen, but somehow it just dropped out for the night.
The same unit though did lock up completely last night while recording. Froze up on the recordings screen. Says: loading in the box, but nothing would happen. Had to reset the machine as the time froze and did not stop recording even after the time period was up. I think it would still be recording now if I had not reset it. This unit still has the .05 software.
Michael

I am in the Tulsa OK area. My Sony TV picks up the local NBC 2.1 with a strong signal. My HDD500 does not pick it up when I scan channelsDid you do a full scan with 'Auto Scan'? You should try a full scan rather than an 'Auto Add'.

and also says 'no signal' when I try to manually tune to 2.1. Same probably with 2.2.That is typical for some Sonys - mine included.

also says 'no signal' when I try to manually tune to 2.1. Same probably with 2.2.
All the other channels are OK.

That is typical for some Sonys - mine included.

That is typical for all digital tuners, since 2.1 is just a virtual channel assigned by PSIP after your tuner finds the actual frequency assignment. Channel 2.1 may be UHF 39 in one area or VHF 2 in another. The tuner doesn't know until it actually has scanned and found the channel.

I had the same problem getting my tuner to find Channel 7.1. I just kept moving my antenna in between channel scans. Finally the stars aligned and it found 7.1. Once it was found I was able to use the signal strength meter to optimize alignment of my antenna for that channel (it is my host channel).

HostSUFLags is closer; but it has done this before and then starts over the next day. This is the first time it has reached this level on its own, after Artec.

Data Flow Rate during the last 24 hours has nearly stopped. Maybe just 1 or 2 TimeZonePkts.

Maybe Rovi is tweaking to get Houston to kick it up?

Just after the above posting, I watched a recording. And then happen to do a info screen check. HostSUFlags still the same; but had received 3 more timezonepkts......guess flow rate changes constantly here.

I am in the Tulsa OK area. My Sony TV picks up the local NBC 2.1 with a strong signal. My HDD500 does not pick it up when I scan channels and also says 'no signal' when I try to manually tune to 2.1. Same probably with 2.2.
All the other channels are OK.
Anyone know how to fix this?

KJRH is coming in fine on my 250. I would delete all channels and do a fresh rescan. My problem is I am getting no listings just for the OTA channels. I have cable (which I never use) and OTA coming into my 250. I get all listings for the cable channels and finally this week I have listings for the locals from cable, but still nothing for the OTA versions. I have been systematically going thru and turning on and off the 8 or 10 versions of OETA that appear in the channel editor for the various repeaters around the state. My 250 switched the analog OETA feed from cable for listings this week instead of the digital OTA.

KJRH is coming in fine on my 250. I would delete all channels and do a fresh rescan. My problem is I am getting no listings just for the OTA channels. I have cable (which I never use) and OTA coming into my 250. I get all listings for the cable channels and finally this week I have listings for the locals from cable, but still nothing for the OTA versions. I have been systematically going thru and turning on and off the 8 or 10 versions of OETA that appear in the channel editor for the various repeaters around the state. My 250 switched the analog OETA feed from cable for listings this week instead of the digital OTA.

Thanks to all, I can now tune 2.1. I had tried lots of rescans but always chose antenna only since I don't have cable. This time I told it to do antenna and cable and it worked.
OSU1991: I also am not able to get listings for tulsa OTA. I reset my zip code to an OKC zip code and am using those for the listings. Don't always line up exactly, but most prime time shows are the same on ABC, NBC, and CBS

There are lots of versions of OETA in the guide. I have been turning them on, one at a time,when i think about it. I am up to about the 4th or 5th one this week. I noticed this morning that I had listings for the cable versions of the locals, which you can remap to the OTA channel numbers. I also tried OKC about a month ago, but i didn't get any listings for the OKC or Tulsa channels.

For the few Mits TV owners in this thread;
I finally decided to flash the TV with the (hopefully) proper firmware inspite of receiving it in the wrong memory format (USB instead of CF card).

The version number now shows V8.04 instead of 8.03.

The flash procedure is different from the other version. The TV does not power up after the flash. After the Power LED stops flashing (around two minutes) you can unplug the TV, remove the card and plug it back in again. Then power it up after it initalizes itself. Unlike the other firmware, you do have to rescan all the channels.

Here's something odd. On both of my Sonys, when the Host Chan field is set in the 753159852 screens, I get no new program listings, unless I turn the unit on and leave it tuned to the host channel during a type 70 download period. After a few days, the Host Chan field clears and I get new listings. When the Host Chan field sets again, I stop getting listings.

Here's what's been happening with one of my units lately:


Data for days
Date Host Chan 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
-------------- --------- ---------------
Tue 7-28 - x x x x x x x x
Wed 7-29 - x x x x x x x x
Thu 7-30 0:43-0 x x x x x x x x
Fri 7-31 0:43-0 x x x x x x x -
Sat 8-01 0:43-0 x x x x x x - -
Sun 8-02 23:00 - x x x x x x x x
Mon 8-03 7:45 0:43-0 x x x x x x x x
Tue 8-04 9:00 0:43-0 x x x x x x x -
Wed 8-05 7:30 0:43-0 x x x x x x - -
Thu 8-06 9:30 0:43-0 x x x x x - - -
Thu 8-06 4:30 - x x x x x x x x


The other unit does something similar, although not in sync with this one. During the past several days, its Host Chan field has been clear, and it's been getting new listings OK.

Before I started keeping track of the times I checked this, it was usually in the morning, around 8:00 or 9:00. During an earlier stretch, I've observed that the missing listings do fill in when I tune to the host channel during a type 70 download, or after I clear the Host Chan field manually by changing the ZIP code in the setup screens. Since then, I've been carefully avoiding tuning the unit to the host channel during a type 70 download period while there is missing data.

The host channel listed is the strongest one that I receive. I keep my antenna aimed so it has a strong signal (94% / Good), except when I'm watching a channel from another direction.

I can receive four other host channels, one of which also comes in strongly over a wide range of antenna orientation. The other three require somewhat careful aiming of the antenna, but do come in at other angles sometimes depending on the weather. So maybe the Sony gets confused by multiple channels with TVGOS data?

This behavior doesn't inconvenience me much because I seldom actually need to look at the listings more than a day or two in advance, but it's a puzzle!

jtbell, that is very interesting.

Is your RF 43 the only one that will set your "host channel"? Or do you just keep the antenna aimed that way as the primary source of TVGOS?

Since the use of Artec, still no host channel set here, and HousSUFlags has been at 0xe78 for two days. Only the "LastSrchEnd" updates daily 2-3 times a day?

All 8 days remain complete here (during the fall we will schedule 8 days once a week), and the Sony Box is usually "not" tuned to the host channel over night.

Here's something odd. On both of my Sonys, when the Host Chan field is set in the 753159852 screens, I get no new program listings, unless I turn the unit on and leave it tuned to the host channel during a type 70 download period. After a few days, the Host Chan field clears and I get new listings. When the Host Chan field sets again, I stop getting listings.


I believe it is the download schedules that cause this. Mine had the same problem from February until May, when Macrovision finally cleaned out the unneeded analog schedules, and it has worked right ever since. Do you just have one download schedule (StID) listed, or are there several. If each station provides a download schedule with a different StID, it may be confused about which one to use. Tuning directly to the host channel, and leaving it on works because this bypasses the download schedule, just like when the host channel is blank.

Mark

Each unit does have two download schedules, which are identical except for different StID's.

Is your RF 43 the only one that will set your "host channel"?

I think I've seen the second strongest station (RF 18) as HostChan at least once, but that's the only other one. No matter where I point the antenna, I can always get at least two host channels, so it's kind of hard to isolate one of them:

PBS 29.1 (RF 9) @ 317° (medium strong)
PBS 49.1 (RF 43) @ 5° (strongest; can get some signal most directions)
CBS 19.1 (RF 17) @ 112° (need to aim within about 20°)
PBS 35.1 (RF 32) @ 115° (need to aim within about 20°)
PBS 38.1 (RF 18) @ 249° (second strongest; can get some signal most directions)

pice 7632-7637 History on HostSUFlags - same as always

pic 7638 timezonepkts (and others) are zooming again.

Zooming??

I have the identical signal situation as yours except in WLA.
Be glad you have the correct time so you can record programs while you are waiting for the grid to reappear. Anything else you do will just delay the process, and probably corrupt the clock. Only thing that may help is to tune to CBS before turning off the set. An automatic way to do that is with the reminder feature - set it to tune CBS a few minutes before the unit is scheduled to go to standby.

Ray

It has been a week since my clock updated to the correct time, still no grid....

There are lots of versions of OETA in the guide. I have been turning them on, one at a time,when i think about it. I am up to about the 4th or 5th one this week. I noticed this morning that I had listings for the cable versions of the locals, which you can remap to the OTA channel numbers. I also tried OKC about a month ago, but i didn't get any listings for the OKC or Tulsa channels.

I did the 00000 zip code change and then changed it back to my correct 74036 zip code. The next day I went in to the channel editor and found Tulsa Channel 2 and 6 (I already had channel 8) on the very last page (over 300 listings). I turned them on and turned off the OKC channels. They showed 'no listing'. After another day, I now have Tulsa OTA listings working.

I did the 00000 zip code change and then changed it back to my correct 74036 zip code. The next day I went in to the channel editor and found Tulsa Channel 2 and 6 (I already had channel 8) on the very last page (over 300 listings). I turned them on and turned off the OKC channels. They showed 'no listing'. After another day, I now have Tulsa OTA listings working.

Yep, I did that a month ago. May be time to do it again. It will get unplugged and be dormant for a couple of days in a few weeks when I move to a new house. I may leave it OTA only this time and not split my Cox internet feed over to it.

It has been a week since my clock updated to the correct time, still no grid....

In your previous post you mentioned you had been leaving the unit turned on, and tuned to your host channel. When it was on, did you verify on the ATSC Slicer screen that the CurrChan packets were counting up? If you didn't verify that, then there is a chance that it was not receiving TVGOS data during the time it was on (which is why I don't recommend doing it this way).

Next you can monitor (once a day or so) the HostSUFlags field in the 753 menu. This field is on the 'VBI Data - VBI Info' screen which is the third screen up from the first screen. This field is an indicator of how far along the DVR is to acquiring a host channel, which is required to get a grid. Every 4 or 5 days this field clears itself to 0x00000000, and starts acquiring data again. This field will be 0xff800000 (hexidecimal) when the host channel sets. Although there isn't anything you can do to speed up the procees, watching the data in the 753 menu is a good way to kill time why you wait for the grid.

Mark

It has been a week since my clock updated to the correct time, still no grid....

It could be worse. You could lose the clock while attempting to force the grid to return. As I recall from a previous post, it was stated that with the new firmware, it could take up to a month for to grid to return.

Ray

It has been a week since my clock updated to the correct time, still no grid....

FWIW, both of my units blanked out the host channel 8 days ago and have not reset it since then. I suspect whatever is causing that to happen is also the reason your grid hasn't built yet either.

FWIW, both of my units blanked out the host channel 8 days ago and have not reset it since then. I suspect whatever is causing that to happen is also the reason your grid hasn't built yet either.

The DVR always has to have the last word. The minute you said that it takes less than 3 days to get a host channel, it just had to prove you wrong. :(

Edwin, keep waiting, I'm sure your grid will come.

Mark

The DVR always has to have the last word. The minute you said that it takes less than 3 days to get a host channel, it just had to prove you wrong. :(

Edwin, keep waiting, I'm sure your grid will come.

Mark

:D Yeah, that's what I get for claiming how predictable they were!

Well the audio is back trough the HDMI cable. Not sure what happen, but somehow it just dropped out for the night.
Michael

I've lost the audio through HDMI twice during the past week. I don't know what happened either.

I've lost the audio through HDMI twice during the past week. I don't know what happened either.
Funny, I had just been to the store the other day and saw some Blue bell ice cream and thought about you. Wondered how your DVR had been working since the change over under this all digital world.
Only thing that I did was to mess with the antenna while the unit was on. When I came out of the attic I had no audio. Hooked up the optical out and could get sound but no picture then. The next day everything was OK again. Will keep an eye on this to see if it happens again. Maybe then I might find what is causing it.
Michael

Do not fear the other side has Two X Green

OTA only. Seattle, WA
At Macrovision’s advice, I purchased the Dish DTVPal+. Following the below steps, and some information from frank70, and some blind luck by my wife and myself, I was able to restore the grid and download program listings. After hooking up the unit and stumbling though some of the steps, I was able to get a host channel within 15 minutes. Overnight I was able to get a full 8 days of listings with a few ‘holes’ here and there. Total time from no grid/listings to grid with listings-12 hours.

A note on universal remotes. Some of these (at least mine) will notify the user that the correct code has been entered by powering off the unit. This may or may not happen on some universal remotes. As frank70 posted, after entering TVGOS pass through mode, you must enter your host channel as described below. I assumed that since it powered back up with the host channel tuned that I did not need to send it the channel command

Another problem I encountered was that after entering the 3 digit code for my host, I needed to send the ‘enter’ command. My universal remote control ‘enter’ button would not work. My workaround for this was to preface the desired channel number with a 0. Thus, 591 becomes 0591.

Another problem I encountered was that after I entered a new code in the universal remote it would not work. I incorrectly assumed that all of the previous programming for that button would be cleared. Not so. I had to do a manual ‘erase’ of the old button, and then enter the new code. This solved the problem


Introduction

This post describes how to use a Dish DTVPal Plus (http://www.dtvpal.com) (DTVPal+) digital TV converter box to obtain a channel lineup (also called "channel grid") for the TV Guide On Screen (TVGOS) program guide in the Sony DHG-HDD250 and 500 HD DVRs. Many users of these Sony DVRs (including me) have been unable to get a channel lineup directly from a digital TVGOS host channel, even though units that already have a channel lineup can receive program listings with few or no problems.

I use only over-the-air (OTA) broadcast TV, and these instructions are written accordingly. If you use cable TV, or OTA + cable together, you may be able to modify these instructions accordingly.

Background

TVGOS gets its program guide data from an OTA "host channel" which (in principle at least) carries data for all the OTA and cable channels in its area, i.e. a Nielsen "Designated Marketing Area" (DMA). Each DMA is supposed to have at least one host channel. Before the analog-to-digital OTA TV transition, these were often (but not always) PBS stations. Then Macrovision (which owns TVGOS) was bought by CBS, and it was intended that CBS stations would take over the host-channel role in the digital TV era. However, many CBS stations have apparently declined to take on this role. Macrovision has had to recruit other stations in many areas, and some areas still have no TVGOS service.

A digital TVGOS host channel actually carries two versions of the TVGOS data, which I call the "normal" and "legacy" data streams. More formally, these are known as the TVG and SCTE 127 streams, respectively. The "normal" data stream is intended for devices that receive digital TV (ATSC) signals. The "legacy" data stream is ultimately intended for devices that receive analog TV (NTSC) signals. (The Sony DVRs can receive both ATSC and NTSC signals.)

Devices that receive only NTSC signals obviously cannot receive the "legacy" data stream directly from an ATSC signal. They need some help. One way is for a cable TV provider to extract the "legacy" data stream from a digital host channel, and piggyback it onto one of their analog cable channels. Many analog cable subscribers continue to receive TVGOS data in this way for their TVGOS-using devices.

For OTA TV viewers, the Dish DTVPal+ converter box can perform a similar function. When it is in "TV Guide mode," which is enabled in the unit's setup menu, the DTVPal+ extracts a "legacy" TVGOS data stream (if present) in the ATSC channel that it is tuned to, and piggybacks it onto its analog output.

The basic idea of the procedure described below is to use the "legacy" data stream from a DTVPal+ to give the Sony a channel lineup, then use the "normal" data stream directly from the antenna to fill in the program listings and update them thereafter.

The "legacy" and "normal" data streams use different download schedules. I've attached a PDF that shows both. As far as I know, for getting the channel lineup the "legacy" type 27 and 81 downloads are the important ones. For getting and updating program listings, the "normal" type 70 downloads are the important ones.

In principle, for the type 70 downloads either the "legacy" version (via the DTVPal+) or the "normal" version (directly from the antenna) should work. I use the "normal" version because the Sony can receive them without help from the DTVPal+. Also, in order to receive the "legacy" downloads, the Sony must be turned off (more precisely, be in standby mode) during an entire download period (three hours!), whereas with the "normal" downloads, you can have the Sony turned on, so long as it is tuned to the host channel. Also, the "legacy" type 70 downloads occur four times a day and last three hours each, whereas the "normal" type 70 downloads occur eight times a day and last 20 minutes each, so the "normal" downloads are less likely to be interrupted by turning the Sony on and changing channels. The attached schedule highlights the type 70 downloads.

I've tried to use the "legacy" type 70 downloads via the DTVPal+ for updating program listings, just to see if it would work, but I didn't have much success. It might have been simply a poor signal from the host channel that I was using then (WLTX 19.1, Columbia SC), which is nearly 70 miles away, but I haven't experimented with this further because the "normal" digital downloads work well for me, for program listings.

What you need

Besides a Dish DTVPal+ converter box, you also need a special remote control for it. When you put the DTVPal+ in "TV Guide" mode, it does not recognize its own remote control, except for the power button, which causes it to reboot and revert to normal mode. In "TV Guide" mode, it's intended to be controlled by a TV, VCR or DVD recorder via an IR blaster, using codes that mimic a Scientific Atlanta cable TV box.

In order to get an analog TVGOS "legacy" signal out of the DTVPal+, you must set it to the host channel while it's in "TV Guide" mode, using a remote that acts like a Scientific Atlanta remote. I use an old Sony Remote Commander RM-V301, for which the correct code is 011. The power button doesn't work, but the number buttons do, which is all you need. Most any universal remote should work, but you may have to experiment to find the correct code set.

To change channels in "TV Guide" mode, you have to modify the channel number. Basically, you start with the two-part digital channel number, remove the period or dash, and add 100. For example: 49.1 --> 491 --> 591.

Finally, assuming you already have an antenna connected to the Sony's antenna input, you have to chose one of the following methods for connecting the DTVPal+:

Method A: Use a splitter to split the antenna signal, with one branch going to the Sony's antenna input, and the other branch going to the DTVPal+'s antenna input. Then connect the DTVPal+'s RF output to the Sony's cable input. I used this method because I already split my antenna signal several ways, so I could easily move an antenna cable from one of my other devices to the DTVPal+ temporarily. Also, if I wanted to, after the procedure is finished, I could leave the DTVPal+ connected to the Sony, but with the power off (unplugged), for possible future use.

Method B: Disconnect the antenna from the Sony's antenna input and connect it to the DTVPal+'s antenna input. Then connect the DTVPal+'s RF output to the Sony's antenna input. With this method, you have to restore the original connections (i.e. remove the DTVPal+) at step 12 below.


Procedure, stage 1

Do this sometime before the nightly "legacy" download cycle begins at 10:30 PM. Allow enough time to find your host channel if you don't know it already.

1. Connect the DTVPal+'s RF output to the Sony's cable input, and the antenna to the DTVPal+'s antenna input. and turn both devices on.

2. If necessary, do a channel scan on the Sony so it finds analog cable channel 3: Menu --> Preferences --> CH +/- List --> Auto Scan --> Auto Scan Cable. You can cancel the scan after it's found that one "cable" channel, so you don't have to wait a half hour for the scan to finish.

3. Set the Sony to analog cable channel 3. You should now see the output from the DTVPal+.

4. Put the DTVPal+ into "TV Guide" mode via Menu --> Setup --> System Setup --> TV Guide & Guide+ --> Continue.

5. Use your "Scientific Atlanta" remote to set the DTVPal+ to your digital TVGOS host channel (or a channel which you think might be the host channel), by modifying the channel number as described previously. You should see that channel appear on your TV screen.

6. Verify that the converted signal on channel 3 includes TVGOS data by setting the Sony to (Menu, Screen Mode, 9012) --> TV Guide --> G* Factory Test. After about 15-20 seconds, the "VBI Test" should indicate "PASS" and you should see the packet counter increment steadily. When done, exit from the test by hitting the EXIT button on the Sony's remote.

6A. If you need to search for your host channel, repeat steps 5 and 6 as necessary, until you find it.

7. Reset the Sony's TVGOS via (Menu, Screen Mode, 9012) --> TV Guide --> Reset to Factory Default.

8. Turn the Sony off, then on again, to bring up the TVGOS setup wizard. Select both cable and antenna, and enter an appropriate ZIP code.

9. Turn the Sony off.

Procedure, stage 2

Wait until at least one "legacy" download each, of types 81 and 27, has occurred. i.e. sometime after 12:30 AM. If you're not in a hurry, get a good night's sleep and do the following steps in the morning.

10. Turn the Sony on and enter the guide. It should ask you to choose one of a set of cable-ready channel lineups. If you're OTA only, it probably doesn't make any difference which one you choose. You should now see a channel grid, filled with "No Listing" in all its time slots.

11. If you like, you can enter the Sony's diagnostic screens and check the host channel setting: Guide --> Setup --> arrow down to "Change System Settings" but do not hit the SELECT button --> enter 753159852 --> arrow right once. The "Host Chan" field should read 1:0-3 for analog cable channel 3. Hit the EXIT button to get out of the diagnostic screens.

12. At this point, you switch to using the "normal" TVGOS data directly from the antenna. Therefore, disconnect the DTVPal+, or at least turn it off or unplug its power, so it no longer sends a signal into the cable input.

13. You also need to clear the Sony's "Host Chan" setting which you saw in step 11, otherwise it will try for a few days to get program listings from analog cable channel 3. To do this: Guide --> Setup --> Change System Settings, which brings up the TVGOS setup wizard. Tell it you're using OTA only now, and enter 00000 for the ZIP code.

14. Wait a minute or two, then go into the setup wizard again (repeat step 13) and re-enter your original ZIP code.

15. If you like, you can go into the channel editor (Guide --> Setup --> Change Channel Display) and adjust your channel lineup by turning channels on or off, or re-mapping channels with incorrect channel numbers, etc.

16. Turn the Sony off again. When the next "normal" type 70 download comes around, you should start to get program listings. I usually find that after one type 70 download has finished, there are still some or many gaps in the program listings ("No Listing" or "No Title"), but they usually fill in during the course of the day. When the day's download cycle ends in late afternoon, the program listings are usually almost complete for eight days.

Another problem I encountered was that after entering the 3 digit code for my host, I needed to send the ‘enter’ command.

I don't remember having to do that. As far as I can remember, after I entered the three digits (only), I just needed to wait a few seconds.

I don't remember having to do that. As far as I can remember, after I entered the three digits (only), I just needed to wait a few seconds.Probably just an odd characteristic of jengle1023's somewhat strange universal remote. The extra leading 0 doesn't seem to hurt anything at the DTVPal end and just may be necessary to force that particular remote to send out the codes.

The DVR always has to have the last word. The minute you said that it takes less than 3 days to get a host channel, it just had to prove you wrong. :(

Edwin, keep waiting, I'm sure your grid will come.

Mark

Finally! After 2 weeks I have a grid and program listings. Thanks for all your help and your advise to be patient.

Finally! After 2 weeks I have a grid and program listings. Thanks for all your help and your advise to be patient.

Great, I'm glad you got your grid back. I really didn't think it would take as long as it did. I know how hard it is to be patient when it appears that the DVR isn't doing anything on its own. However, the DVR is constantly seeking out data, and when it finally gets the data it needs, then you get a grid.

Mark

Just about a week back it went to 0xe78 for less than a day, and then dropped back to 0xe68 for a day or so (not too long), and has gone back to 0xe78 and has not changed for week.

If I am reading the dates correctly; it should be making a change in the next 24-48 hours or so AND because this the longest period of time it has ever been at level 0xe78 - perhaps it may find the magical 0xff8 next?

Perhaps the magical 0xff8 is only sent out once or twice a month in Houston AND the box has to be just "so" to get it? Maybe? LOL

Why does the antenna feed have to be split and why do both RF inputs to the Sony have to be used?
Also, why are different remote codes needed when in the TVGOS mode with either DTV-Pal or the Artec box? Why not retain the same code? :confused:

Hi Videobruce - I see you posted on the Sony Forum too; so I answered over there. Hope that helps!

Finally! After 2 weeks I have a grid and program listings. Thanks for all your help and your advise to be patient.

That's very good news. FWIW, both of my units finally set the host channel again early this morning. Took 2 weeks + 1 day this time. Between your experience and mine, it sure seems like certain data only shows up periodically.

Unlike previous times, I didn't read all of the posts to catch up since my last participation so please excuse me if any of the following is a repetition of previous discussions.

Some observations about the digital transition which may be of some interest.

I am in the Maryland suburbs of Washington, DC. OTA only. 2 HDG-HDD250s (firmware 1.2.06 and 1.2.13) attached to the same antenna.

The digital transition was seemless here with some caveats. I rescanned my TV, converters, and recorders to accomodate the channel reassignments and even picked up a few new channels in the process. The Sonys continued to work as before because the analog stations transmitting TVGOS data continued to do so for a couple of weeks after the cutover. A few weeks ago I started to lose grid updates and after three days of that I lost my host channel and clock channel. Running a G* test on the local CBS channel (9.1) and leaving the recorders on overnight set the clock channel and got the full grid restored. I seem to be getting grid updates without having the host channel set (this is in line with theories of operation that I have posted earlier).

I have downloaded the firmware update (1.2.21), but have not yet installed it. Since I am not experiencing any problems at the moment, why monkey with it and risk causing problems? (If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Right?) Since Sony says that the firmware update cannot be removed, I wanted to see if anyone has experienced any adverse effects after installing it. Has anyone who installed this update developed new problems that they didn't have immediately prior to installation? Has anyone tried to revert to 1.2.13 after installing 1.2.21? If so, were you successful? I am reluctant to do anything that may cause the need for a reset. I have not received a time zone packet on either recorder in several days and, as you may recall from my earlier posts, you can't get a grid without a host channel, you can't get a host channel without clock and Zip Code data, and you can't set the clock without Time Zone data. Has anyone successfully recovered from a complete TVGOS reset (no clock and TVGOS software back to 08.01.42/00.00.00) after the analog stations have stopped broadcasing? If so, what level of firmware is your recorder running?

After a few days, neither recorder found a host channel on its own. I tried initiating a VBI Channel Search while tuned to my local CBS channel. This is what many of you incorrectly call forcing a host channel. The 963214785 command tells the recorder to start searching for a new host channel and it is thought (although not known for sure) that the search starts with the currently tuned channel. The term "force a host channel" was coined in the analog days when you wanted the recorder to find a digital host channel despite that it is predisposed to seek out an analog host channel. It was never guaranteed that you would successfully switch your host channel to the currently tuned channel. Frequently the recorder would find a host channel different than the intended one. I believe that the recorder has a short list of channels that it searches using a circular list approach and that this short list coincides with the station IDs in the download schedule (this is a theory that is supported by anecdotal evidence). More on VBI Channel Search in a moment.

Interestingly, I came home late one night and discovered that one of the recorders had downloaded a new channel lineup, which included some new stations and discarded almost all of the analog stations. The other recorder still had the old channel lineup that contains the analog stations. Neither recorder had a host channel and both recorders had switched clock channels to CBS in Baltimore (13.1). The new channel lineup was missing a couple of Washington stations that I used to have in the old lineup. I think that the recorder with the new lineup obtained and then lost a host channel.

I suspect that the reason that I have not gotten host channels on the recorders may have to do with the presence of two rather strong TVGOS sources in the area and the characteristic of digital broadcast to be all or nothing. I have noticed that even when viewing stations that have very strong signals of good quality, rain and gusty winds (in my area or in the general area of the broadcast tower) can cause pixilation (caused by momentary disruption of the signal). This same disruption of the viewing signal will also result in the disruption of the TVGOS download. This manner of disruption may cause the recorder to reject the downloading station as a reliable host channel and start searching for another host channel. If all of the potential host channels suffer from these momentary disruptions, the recorder will have a very difficult time locating and especially keeping a host channel. I'm just speculating here.

The VBI Channel Search while tuned to the local CBS station was unsuccessful after several attempts on both recorders. I then tried a VBI Channel Search while tuned to the local CBS station on one recorder and a VBI Channel Search while tuned to the Baltimore CBS station on the other recorder. The recorder that I started searching on channel 9.1 eventually found 13.1 as a host channel. The other recorder did not find a host channel. After several days, the recorder that had 13.1 as a host channel switched to 9.1 as a host channel. The other recorder still has not found a host channel. Both recorders have switched clock channels several times between 9.1 and 13.1.

While examining the Edit Channel list while playing back a recording, one of the recorders spontaneously reset to the Welcome screen. While the recorder went through the count to 6, I was worried that I might not be able to recover without installing the firmware update. It turned out that the recorder did not lose the 08.06.44 software and I was able to run a G* test which recovered the clock in less than a minute. Most of the 753... data was reset to zeroes, but otherwise the recorder recovered successfully.

Time Zone packets are few and far between. I can go for days without receiving one, but I do get them occasionally on both recorders.

At this point both recorders have obtained and lost both 9.1 and 13.1 as host channels. They also seem to be able to do this without the need for a VBI Channel Search. I have observed that my local CBS station (9.1) has periodically stopped broadcasting TVGOS data. I don't know if they are having problems with their equipment or are installing new equipment that requires the shutdown. If my recorders are using 9.1 as a host channel when this happens, my host channel becomes blank.

Based upon observation over a period of several weeks, I believe that the recorders can find digital TVGOS data on their own and download it when it is available. However, the recorder seems to require a lengthy period of error-free reception before setting the TVGOS data source as a host channel and it seems to drop a host channel if the error rate exceeds some predetermined threshhold. This was not a problem for analog stations since data could be received even with a distorted signal, but is problematic for digital stations where the reception is all or nothing. In my case, this may be due to using an amplified antenna in my attic. Although I have few problems with reception while watching TV, I suspect that I would have considerably fewer problems retaining a host channel if I had an outside antenna.

Weeks later now and both recorders continue to operate normally although most times without a host channel. It is almost annoying when they do find one because it results in a new lineup download (even though nothing has changed), which in turn requires restoring the channel editor settings again. Time Zone packets seem to be arriving with somewhat more regularity. I still haven't needed to install the firmware update.

I dropped out of this thread for a while because I was spending way too much time reading and responding to posts. I consider myself to be fairly knowledgable about these recorders and am willing to help anyone in need, but I am going to limit my future participation to reporting interesting information and will only respond to posts that are specifically addressed to me.

ImTheOne, welcome back. I can understand not having the time to read back through the thread, but your observations are about the same as many others have experienced since the transition. Mostly I think everyone has gotten their issues resolved one way or the other.

Quick recap for you: the firmware update didn't change much of anything except that the units will find digital on their own without the need for a G* test. In fact, the G* test isn't needed. Also, the VBI Search Current doesn't do anything.

The firmware update is not permanent. A factory reset will wipe it out and you're back to wherever you were.

For many of us, the host channel comes and goes on a regular basis. The units work just fine without a host as long as the channel lineup (grid) has not been lost. If the grid is lost, it can take anywhere from a few days to a month to get it again and, for some, they've had to resort to DTVPal/Artec CECBs or an analog tape.

Some people get timezone packets regularly; many of us don't. I get a few a couple times a week.

I suspect you getting rebuilt channel lineups has to do with having more than one host available and that they have slightly different lineups. I know my lineup has not changed at all since the transition, but there's only one host channel here.

That's about it. :D

Has anyone who installed this update developed new problems that they didn't have immediately prior to installation?

For some reason the new firmware update caused me to loose the ability to tune at least one channel. I was able to get Animal Planet just before updating, but cannot get it on the DVR any more. I have two other QAM tuners in the house that still get it no problem. Very odd?? I believe someone else in the forum also reported losing a channel or two after applying the update.

If you go into the service menu and do a full reset, the .21 will revert to .13 or whatever was loaded into the unit when made.

Quick recap for you: the firmware update didn't change much of anything except that the units will find digital on their own without the need for a G* test. In fact, the G* test isn't needed.

In further fact, the G* test doesn't even work on digital host channels any more, only on analog ones (from cable or from a DTVPal or Artec converter box). As compensation, there's a new 753159852 screen that shows ATSC packet counts in real time. It's three clicks down from the initial screen IIRC.

If the grid is lost, it can take anywhere from a few days to a month to get it again

A few weeks ago, I got my grid back in one day after a TVGOS reset from the 9012 menu.

When I finish archiving the remaining recordings on my 250, using a Hauppauge HD PVR, I'm going to do a full "Restore Factory Defaults", re-install 1.2.21 and see how things go then. This unit has never been reset completely since I bought it in November '05. One of the recordings I just archived was a broadcast of "Shrek" from that Thanksgiving weekend.

I did a factory reset from 9012 menu last night and then upgraded firmware to .21. I followed the auto set up for scanning channel and entered zip code to start TV guide. I have not got grid or clock so far. I read that it can take much longer. Did I cover everything I need to do?

Many thanks,

Jane

Unlike previous times, I didn't read all of the posts to catch up since my last participation so please excuse me if any of the following is a repetition of previous discussions.

I dropped out of this thread for a while because I was spending way too much time reading and responding to posts. I consider myself to be fairly knowledgable about these recorders and am willing to help anyone in need, but I am going to limit my future participation to reporting interesting information and will only respond to posts that are specifically addressed to me.

I have one USB drive with .13 and .21 software in different folders. By renaming the folder to SONY I can switch with no lineup or other data loss. My base version is 1.2.05 which I would get with a 9012 factory reset. The TVGOS may revert to 08.01.42/00.00.00, but mine always updates to 08.06.44 in a few hours, and I have VCR tapes also. Since I am cable only I can't address the other issues. The messages have dropped 90% since the June peak. I guess that is a good thing.

I did a factory reset from 9012 menu last night and then upgraded firmware to .21. I followed the auto set up for scanning channel and entered zip code to start TV guide. I have not got grid or clock so far. I read that it can take much longer. Did I cover everything I need to do?

Many thanks,

Jane

Is your Sony Box OTA, Cable, or both?

Do others in your TVGOS market (city), get TVGOS on their Sony box? - What is your location?

(others on the forum, may be able to assist faster than me)

I think tomorrow morning “LastSrchSt” will go to 8/16/09, and NumSearch to 26. The 20 million dollar question is – “HostSUFlags” where will it be – several choices of course.

Anyone want to play the odds?

Is your Sony Box OTA, Cable, or both?

Do others in your TVGOS market (city), get TVGOS on their Sony box? - What is your location?

(others on the forum, may be able to assist faster than me)

My Sony Box is OTA only.

I am in Norther Virginia, Washington DC area. I have a 250 box in the basement that works fine with .13 firmware. The 500 box upstairs worked fine for a few days after I did g*test, change zip code and other stuff I read. Then it has "No Listing" for weeks with the right clock. This is the first time I did the .21 firmware update. Now I have no clock and no grid.

Using the ARTEC CECB, I did the routine on the DVR, then on my Mits DLP. I now have grids, BUT,

I have had FOUR possible 'host' channels which I feel is part of my problem;*
1. OTA PBS affilate 43.2 (the target station),
2. OTA CTV affilate analog 9 (Toronto),
3. CATV SCTE127 analog channel 3 version of host #1 (that use to work, but hasent for the past 3 weeks),
4. CATV CTV affilate analog channel 12.
I previously went as far as removing the cable TV feed, but that still didn't help. I could not get a grid.

What use to happen is these systems seem to keep on winding up landing on either OTA ch. 9 or cable ch. 12. Now it seems it's just cable ch. 12. I even leave the tuners on OTA 43.2, but that doesn't help. This first stage of assigning a channel lineup and acquiring a host station doesn't happen.
Since the output of the Artec was channel 3 and the SCTE127 cable channel is also ch. 3, both devices show cable ch. 3 as the host. I didn't think to switch the CECB over to ch. 4 at the time.

Will the 'host' channel change after the Artec is removed?

BTW, the Mits had a grid in 8 hours (overnight).

Will the 'host' channel change after the Artec is removed?

The Sony will keep on trying to use channel 3 as the host channel for a few days, then it will give up, clear the Host Chan field in the 753159852 screens, and start searching for a new one. Until the Host Chan field clears, you won't get any program listings, I think.

To short-circuit this process, go into the TVGOS setup and change the ZIP code. This will clear the Host Chan field.

When the Host Chan field is blank, the Sony will download program listings from whatever channel happens to include TVGOS data. Eventually it may set the Host Chan field to whatever channel it's using, but this isn't actually necessary for continued updates, only for the initial download of the channel grid.

I am trying to use my working HDD250 box to help me set up the one that lost the grid. The working box has .13 firmware. I checked the 753* menu and found no host channel, the VBI channel is 66.2. Can I use this information to set up the other box?

Thanks,

Jane

I am trying to use my working HDD250 box to help me set up the one that lost the grid. The working box has .13 firmware. I checked the 753* menu and found no host channel, the VBI channel is 66.2. Can I use this information to set up the other box?

Thanks,

Jane

Using the 753* menu you can check your working box to see what it is using for the clock set channel. That is likely where it is getting its listings. Since you updated the no-grid unit to the .21 firmware it should just find the digital downloads on its own. VBI channel just displays whatever channel you are tuned to; it doesn't mean anything as related to TVGOS.

Using the 753* menu you can check your working box to see what it is using for the clock set channel. That is likely where it is getting its listings. Since you updated the no-grid unit to the .21 firmware it should just find the digital downloads on its own. VBI channel just displays whatever channel you are tuned to; it doesn't mean anything as related to TVGOS.

Thanks a lot for the suggestion. How can I find out the clock set channel? Once I found the channel, what should I do to the box without grid?

Jane

Thanks a lot for the suggestion. How can I find out the clock set channel? Once I found the channel, what should I do to the box without grid?

Jane

Possumgirl has some very good suggestions; go to the unit that works....go to 753 menu screen two clock........the last line on the screen will tell you the clock channel for that unit.

Now the trick is to get the other unit to lock into that clock channel. Keeping always tuned to that channel (both when the unit is on or off) may help speed up the process.

If the clock does not show up in 24 hours or less, then perhaps a soft reset might wake it up, OR perhaps taking downstairs to the unit that does work and placing it on that antenna feed there?

Are the Sony Software versions different between the two units? (.05 or .06 or .09 or .13 or .21) (I see the unit that does not work upstairs has .21 - I think?)

When the Host Chan field is blank, the Sony will download program listings from whatever channel happens to include TVGOS data.That's what I'm trying to prevent. I don't want it to gather data from th CATV analog host, only the OTA digital host.

After 36 hours the Sony only had a grid whereas the Mits had most of the listings but this is from analog cable 3, again not where I want it to be.

That's what I'm trying to prevent. I don't want it to gather data from th CATV analog host, only the OTA digital host.

After 36 hours the Sony only had a grid whereas the Mits had most of the listings but this is from analog cable 3, again not where I want it to be.

If the Sony has a grid, you can get it to fill in quickly by tuning to the OTA channel with TVGOS data and leaving it on during a download period. This should get you all eight days of data.

However, you can't control which channel the unit will select as a host channel. If it is currently set to the OTA channel that you want to use and the error rate exceeds some predetermined internal threshhold, it will start to look for a new host channel and will likely find your CATV analog channel because that channel is less likely to have data dropouts.

Both of my recorders obtain and then lose host channels from Washington and Baltimore even though both stations have strong, high-quality signals. I believe that this is because of the "all or nothing" nature of digital signals and the effect of atmospheric disturbances on OTA transmissions.

That's what I'm trying to prevent. I don't want it to gather data from th CATV analog host, only the OTA digital host.

After 36 hours the Sony only had a grid whereas the Mits had most of the listings but this is from analog cable 3, again not where I want it to be.

I presume your Sony got listings from the Artec, before it was disconnected.

The only way to force it to get data from the digital host is to leave the DVR turned on and tuned to your digital host station every night. Your pretty much stuck, because even if you got your host channel to set to the digital host, your host channel would be blank again in 3 days, and your DVR would be out searching for a new host channel.

Mark

Both of my recorders obtain and then lose host channels from Washington and Baltimore even though both stations have strong, high-quality signals. I believe that this is because of the "all or nothing" nature of digital signals and the effect of atmospheric disturbances on OTA transmissions.

It's not atmospheric, several people have seen a pattern in the host channel blanking. It happens after 3 days of being set.

Mark

It's not atmospheric, several people have seen a pattern in the host channel blanking. It happens after 3 days of being set.

Mark

It may not be in all cases, but it is in some. And some people may see a pattern, but I have not observed one. My recorders sometimes keep a host for a day and sometimes for a week. It can take a day to reacquire a host or a couple of weeks. You find the pattern in that. I find a higher correlation to the weather pattens in the area than to some arbitrary three day schedule.

Possumgirl has some very good suggestions; go to the unit that works....go to 753 menu screen two clock........the last line on the screen will tell you the clock channel for that unit.

Now the trick is to get the other unit to lock into that clock channel. Keeping always tuned to that channel (both when the unit is on or off) may help speed up the process.

If the clock does not show up in 24 hours or less, then perhaps a soft reset might wake it up, OR perhaps taking downstairs to the unit that does work and placing it on that antenna feed there?

Are the Sony Software versions different between the two units? (.05 or .06 or .09 or .13 or .21) (I see the unit that does not work upstairs has .21 - I think?)

Thanks a lot for your help. The clock channel of my 250 box says 0:9-0. Does that mean channel 9.0? That channel has no signal. Both units skip 9.0 when I use channel up and down button to page through the channels.

Both of my box came with .05 or .06. They both worked without much problem for 3 years. I had no problem with the digital switch after I just did a channel scan. Then in early July, after we came back from vacation, both lost the listings and clock. I did a quick search and updated them to .13(mistake, I now know). Both boxes recovered overnight. Then the upstairs one lost the listing after a few weeks. I tried G*test and a few other thing I picked from here, it recovered again overnight. But then lost listing after a week or so. This time, I did a factory reset and firmware update to .21.

We have roof top antenna. All outlet in the house should be wired to the same source.

It's not atmospheric, several people have seen a pattern in the host channel blanking. It happens after 3 days of being set.

Mark

By the way, the reason the host channel clears after three days is that once the host channel is set, this is how long the unit keeps trying to reestablish that host channel after it determines the datastream is of insufficient quality to continue using as a host. After three days it gives up, clears the channel in the 753... screen, and starts looking for a new host channel. The initial determination of insufficient quality actually takes place three days prior to the channel clearing and, due to the intermitant nature of the signal disruptions, the recorder is not able to receive a signal of sufficiently good quality for a long enough period of time to maintain or reestablish the current host channel. Analog signals didn't have this problem, but digital signals are all or nothing. Even the strongest OTA signals are subject to some amount of disruption due to atmospheric disturbance over a period of time and the recorder's software monitors the error level of the signal to determine when to look for a new host channel.

If it is currently set to the OTA channel that you want to use and the error rate exceeds some predetermined internal threshhold, it will start to look for a new host channelNo problem with the OTA channel.I presume your Sony got listings from the Artec, before it was disconnected.Yes.

By the way, the reason the host channel clears after three days is that once the host channel is set, this is how long the unit keeps trying to reestablish that host channel after it determines the datastream is of insufficient quality to continue using as a host. After three days it gives up, clears the channel in the 753... screen, and starts looking for a new host channel. The initial determination of insufficient quality actually takes place three days prior to the channel clearing and, due to the intermitant nature of the signal disruptions, the recorder is not able to receive a signal of sufficiently good quality for a long enough period of time to maintain or reestablish the current host channel. Analog signals didn't have this problem, but digital signals are all or nothing. Even the strongest OTA signals are subject to some amount of disruption due to atmospheric disturbance over a period of time and the recorder's software monitors the error level of the signal to determine when to look for a new host channel.

That all sounds wonderful, but it is just speculation, unless you can now read the DVR's mind and you know what it is thinking. The host channel clears every three days, that is all I know. I honestly think it is a glitch in the software, but that is my wild speculation.

Mark

That all sounds wonderful, but it is just speculation, unless you can now read the DVR's mind and you know what it is thinking. The host channel clears every three days, that is all I know. I honestly think it is a glitch in the software, but that is my wild speculation.

Mark

All any of us do is speculate over the oddities of these units. Although signal strength could be a factor is some situations, I'm fairly sure it isn't an issue at my location. I think it's just as likely that the host clears because these units still have preference for an analog host. The .21 FW didn't change that. They will probably continue to search for one forever more.

That all sounds wonderful, but it is just speculation, unless you can now read the DVR's mind and you know what it is thinking. The host channel clears every three days, that is all I know. I honestly think it is a glitch in the software, but that is my wild speculation.

Mark

If your explanation is correct then all cable users should lose their host channels every three days. If my explanation is correct, cable users should seldom lose their host channels. And if your explanation is correct, why do my recorders keep a host channel for a week or more before losing it again? Even when we were still in the analog world, if the TVGOS data disappeared from a station it took three days before the recorder blanked the host channel field in the 753... menus. Anecdotal evidence supports my theory of operation, but not yours.

Thanks a lot for your help. The clock channel of my 250 box says 0:9-0. Does that mean channel 9.0? That channel has no signal. Both units skip 9.0 when I use channel up and down button to page through the channels.

Both of my box came with .05 or .06. They both worked without much problem for 3 years. I had no problem with the digital switch after I just did a channel scan. Then in early July, after we came back from vacation, both lost the listings and clock. I did a quick search and updated them to .13(mistake, I now know). Both boxes recovered overnight. Then the upstairs one lost the listing after a few weeks. I tried G*test and a few other thing I picked from here, it recovered again overnight. But then lost listing after a week or so. This time, I did a factory reset and firmware update to .21.

We have roof top antenna. All outlet in the house should be wired to the same source.

I looked up Washington DC

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos

RF 9 should be digital 9.1 CBS for you, that carries the TVGOS - if I have your location correct and you are close enough to receive a strong solid signal?

I looked up Washington DC

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos

RF 9 should be digital 9.1 CBS for you, that carries the TVGOS - if I have your location correct and you are close enough to receive a strong solid signal?

Great! Thank you so much. We do get a strong signal for 9.1 CBS. I will turn my HDD500 to it. Should I leave the power on or off?

If your explanation is correct then all cable users should lose their host channels every three days. If my explanation is correct, cable users should seldom lose their host channels. And if your explanation is correct, why do my recorders keep a host channel for a week or more before losing it again? Even when we were still in the analog world, if the TVGOS data disappeared from a station it took three days before the recorder blanked the host channel field in the 753... menus. Anecdotal evidence supports my theory of operation, but not yours.

Well it isn't a fair challenge, because I already know the answer to the cable question. WS65711 has 3 DVRs set for cable+OTA. At various times, his have locked onto the cable digital host, as well as the OTA host. In both cases his host channel has blanked at regular intervals no matter which host it locked onto (cable or OTA). At least it was acting this way a month or so ago. Maybe he'll let us know if it is working differently now. Also, as far as the host channel being set for 7 days... I have seen my host channel blank for as little as 9 hours before setting again. It would be easy to miss this. On the VBI Data - VBI Info screen look at the 'LastASetEnd' field. Possumgirl discovered that this field seems to update around the time the host channel sets. On further observation, it definitely is tied to the setting of the host channel. The next time your DVR goes for more than 4 days with the host channel set, check this field, and see if you didn't miss it.

Mark

Great! Thank you so much. We do get a strong signal for 9.1 CBS. I will turn my HDD500 to it. Should I leave the power on or off?

On or off doesn't matter (I prefer off). Since the clock channel is set, it shows that the DVR has found the TVGOS data. The rest of the task is up to it.

Mark

I just checked the HDD500 unit and found it has the exact same clock channel 0:9-0. It has no clock or grid though. Isn't that strange? I thought it should at least have time if it has the right clock channel.

Isn't that strange? I thought it should at least have time if it has the right clock channel.It probably has the correct GMT time internally, but if you're missing a TimeZone packet, it won't show time on the front panel.

It probably has the correct GMT time internally, but if you're missing a TimeZone packet, it won't show time on the front panel.And on digital host channels, TimeZone packets can arrive VERY slowly - perhaps one every couple of days - perhaps a week can elapse. Does anybody have ANY explanation why they would send these out so infrequently on the digital hosts, yet it was never a problem with the old analog hosts.

I think tomorrow morning “LastSrchSt” will go to 8/16/09, and NumSearch to 26. The 20 million dollar question is – “HostSUFlags” where will it be – several choices of course.

Anyone want to play the odds?

Each 96 hours, it tries again. During the last two (maybe 3?) sets of 96 hours, it was able to get back to 0xf78 in just a few short hours – Pic 7654.

Pic 7656: At the completion of this 96 hours set, it again started at zero (caught here midstream with 0xe28) – but the next morning did not bring utopia.

Pic 7658 & 7663: It will remain at 0xe68 for this next 96 hour set.

The elusive 0xff8 is not in the cards for Houston.

Perhaps? the next two 96 hour sets after this will go back to 0xf78; and then hit the 0xff8 at the end of the month. Seems the end of the month the box does a lot of different things - meaning Rovi magic occurs? LOL

..................... WS65711 has 3 DVRs set for cable+OTA. At various times, his have locked onto the cable digital host, as well as the OTA host. In both cases his host channel has blanked at regular intervals no matter which host it locked onto (cable or OTA). At least it was acting this way a month or so ago. Maybe he'll let us know if it is working differently now..................

When my DVR's decide to set the HostChan, they seem to randomly choose between OTA and Cable, as well as randomly choose between CBS and PBS. When they do set the HostChan, it seems to stay set for ~3 to 4 days. After the HostChan blanks, the time to get it back varys greatly, anywhere from several days to a couple of weeks. Also, even though all of my units are HDD500's, and running the same firmware version, and have access to the same OTA and Cable channels, they don't all set the HostChan at the same time. :confused:

For reference, my Mits TV that runs V9 TVGOS software seems to hang on to the HostChan continuously . . .

Since the clock channel is set, it shows that the DVR has found the TVGOS data.If that is the case, why isn't the host channel listed?The elusive 0xff8 is not in the cards for Houston.That doesn't seem to be a problem here, which gets back to the above question. :confused:

Great! Thank you so much. We do get a strong signal for 9.1 CBS. I will turn my HDD500 to it. Should I leave the power on or off?

FYI: 9.1 occasionally stops broadcasting TVGOS data. Several times when I have lost 9.1 as a host channel, I have run a G* test and discovered that it was no longer transmitting TVGOS. Running the G* test the following morning showed that 9.1 had resumed transmitting TVGOS data. I don't know if they are installing new equipment, having problems, or something else, but you should be aware that this happens sometimes. When it does happen, my recorders find 13.1 in Baltimore for clock and grid data.

Well it isn't a fair challenge, because I already know the answer to the cable question. WS65711 has 3 DVRs set for cable+OTA. At various times, his have locked onto the cable digital host, as well as the OTA host. In both cases his host channel has blanked at regular intervals no matter which host it locked onto (cable or OTA). At least it was acting this way a month or so ago. Maybe he'll let us know if it is working differently now. Also, as far as the host channel being set for 7 days... I have seen my host channel blank for as little as 9 hours before setting again. It would be easy to miss this. On the VBI Data - VBI Info screen look at the 'LastASetEnd' field. Possumgirl discovered that this field seems to update around the time the host channel sets. On further observation, it definitely is tied to the setting of the host channel. The next time your DVR goes for more than 4 days with the host channel set, check this field, and see if you didn't miss it.

Mark

I can always tell when I acquire a host channel because I get a new lineup download (even though nothing has changed) and have to reset everything in the channel editor.

I can always tell when I acquire a host channel because I get a new lineup download (even though nothing has changed) and have to reset everything in the channel editor.

Yikes!!! :eek:

I'm glad this isn't happening with mine. :)

If that is the case, why isn't the host channel listed?That doesn't seem to be a problem here, which gets back to the above question. :confused:
My unit - which has been getting listings essentially continuously for months - hasn't shown a host channel since June 12, when analog PBS disappeared.

On the other hand, it ALWAYS shows a clock set channel...

I think others have the same situation.

Cheers - Tony :)

(And, by the way (as noted a month or so ago), when I joined my DTVPal output to the antenna input, my Sony latched on to that as its host channel within hours, and by the next day had dumped the digital DL schedule and - apparently - was getting data from the Pal...From all this I infer that, although it had been getting program listings with a blank host channel from CBS 5.1, it was still SEARCHING for a host channel - and when the channel 3 TVGOS data showed up, it was love at first sight!

When I removed the Pal input, it reverted to blank host channel and a digital DL schedule...as I expected.)

FYI: 9.1 occasionally stops broadcasting TVGOS data. Several times when I have lost 9.1 as a host channel, I have run a G* test and discovered that it was no longer transmitting TVGOS. Running the G* test the following morning showed that 9.1 had resumed transmitting TVGOS data. I don't know if they are installing new equipment, having problems, or something else, but you should be aware that this happens sometimes. When it does happen, my recorders find 13.1 in Baltimore for clock and grid data.
??? Well, I assume that 9.1 has a TVGOS broadcast SCHEDULE, and there are periods when it is NOT broadcasting TVGOS...:confused:

Funny, I had just been to the store the other day and saw some Blue bell ice cream and thought about you. Wondered how your DVR had been working since the change over under this all digital world.
Only thing that I did was to mess with the antenna while the unit was on. When I came out of the attic I had no audio. Hooked up the optical out and could get sound but no picture then. The next day everything was OK again. Will keep an eye on this to see if it happens again. Maybe then I might find what is causing it.
Michael

I lost the listings in early April, but I got them back in June. Everything works fine now and I don't have the signal issues I previously had. I haven't had any more audio problems since my last post. Thanks.

I can always tell when I acquire a host channel because I get a new lineup download (even though nothing has changed) and have to reset everything in the channel editor.

And this happens even when it sets to the same host channel that it had before? That must be annoying.

Mark

I got my clock and grid back today after leaving my unit on 9.1 for over a day!

Thank you all for your help. Hope it will stay well for long time this time.

Hi, just a suggestion to anyone who has'nt downloaded the firmware version update from the Sony support section of their website. I did so ,(& keeping my fingers crossed) I have been reliably recieving my TVGOS schedule since I've done so. It's free & was worth the effort (for me at least). Give it a try!

I just got a hold of a hdd250 and it used to be a SXRD display model. I have tried the instructions from spiffspace.com and i cannot get it out of demo mode. No buttons on the remote or the face plate are responding when the unit is on. Is there step by step instructions to get it of demo mode?


Dan

... step by step instructions ... demo mode?

Link to post with demo mode manual attached (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15560679&post15560679)

Hope your DHG does not have other "issues."

yea i tried that but the menu doesn't pop up for me. The second i turn on the unit it automatically plays the SXRD demo. I pressed menu on the unit and the remote and nothing happens. The only thing the unit responds to is the format button.

yea i tried that but the menu doesn't pop up for me. The second i turn on the unit it automatically plays the SXRD demo. I pressed menu on the unit and the remote and nothing happens. The only thing the unit responds to is the format button.You need to keep pressing the format button until the format matches the display device you have it attached to. The menus only show up on the display device if the format matches. If you have the Sony connected via composite video or S-video, select SD; if you have the Sony connected via component video, select 480p; if you have the Sony connected via HDMI or DVI, select 720p or 1080i. The give it a few seconds to take. Then the menu button should work.

I changed it to 480i because I have it hooked up through composite but i still cant access anything.

I changed it to 480i because I have it hooked up through composite but i still cant access anything.You weren't listening... I'll try again: for composite, set format to SD ("SD Out"). Otherwise you won't see the menus. 480i just won't work (menus go to component/HDMI).

Post deleted due to ignorance of the members.

After Contacting my Host Station asking them if they were sending the TVGOS signal, they had told me they had to shut it down for now on count of the feed disrupting (crashing) those Magnavox Boxes. I'm assuming they must be a popular converter box alot of people must have purchased with there government coupons because of the digital transition. They are working on a new solution to the problem, and slowly my dvr is beginning to work again. First i started getting adds, then finally a clock on the front panel serveral days later. I still have not EPG or even a grid yet. I was told that what ever is in the signal that sends the updates for the time was what was causing the problem. Maybe i got a clock because they turned that part of the signal on for a short time testing things out.

Has anyone successfully recovered from a complete TVGOS reset (no clock and TVGOS software back to 08.01.42/00.00.00) after the analog stations have stopped broadcasing? If so, what level of firmware is your recorder running?

I'm currently attempting this with my HDD500 firmware 1.2.06 using WUSA-DT (9.1) DC but over FIOS with cablecard (509 on FIOS.) My unit had been getting guide data solidly (cept when WUSA-DT seems to not broadcast TVGOS data every now and then.) However it was 'resetting' randomly at least once a week. Would lose clock and I had to run G* to get it back each time. Got sick of that and thought I should clear/reset my TVGOS info. I probably should upgrade to .21 firmware...but wanted to see if I could regain grid with .06.

I'm basically following frank70's procedure (see http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=55.0) and it took me like 3 days to get from 08.01.42/00.00.00 to 08.01.42/08.06.44. I'm to the point now of around trying to acquire host channel, correct time and grid. No luck over last 24 hours. I repeated steps 10-12 (run G*, up/down channel, run VBI search channel, turn unit off) this morning...so hopefully I won't have to wait more than a day or two for my unit to lock onto a host channel. But apparently by some reports this takes up to weeks. BTW since I'm FIOS there should be a solid HD signal all the time (vs OTA reception issues.)

...For now, the TivoHD is the only third-party product that can support SDV channels....
Charter is starting sent out this (http://www.accessduarte.com/content/CommunityServices/pdf/2009-TiVoCard.pdf) letter to some of its customers. According to the letter I got, Charter in Asheville will start using SDV "on or after September 15th." I now have an appointment next week for Charter to install tuning adapters on my 2 TiVos, plus they will attempt to install one on my Sony DHG DVR. I seriously doubt it will work with the Sony, like bfdtv says, but if it does, I will certainly pass on the information to this forum.

Don
P.S. bfdtv: Thanks again for encouraging me to buy TiVo vs Moxi back in December. Also, I'm really happy with my decision to buy a 2nd TiVo in case the TVGOS was not available in our area for my Sony DVR after the digital transition. Despite updating the firmware, my Sony is still unable to update the time or TVGOS; so for now, the Sony is simply a backup tuner with an unnecessarily large hard drive...but it appears it will slowly even lose that capability as SDV expands. However, after experiencing owning 2 TiVos, I'll only care about Sony's limited capabilities if I lose a TiVo.

***If this has been answered before and someone has a link to answer that would be greatly appreciated...to illustrate my tech incompetence I originally posted this over in the Digital Recorder (PVR) forum (general) two days ago as follows:

Ok, so here goes; I know the following from having (read many postings on this link) and then played with system settings many times:

How to reset DVR via "Spiffs guide" and the various tests to run;
That as a Comcast subscriber my TVGOS comes from 163 (CBS-Digital) in central NJ;
and, how to install latest Sony firmware update via USB port on the DVR (I've done so)

What I need to know is why with two DVRs one has a guide that updates and other only has an empty grid that I can't force VBI packets to or get a clock to set correctly, or anything that recognizes my location so to enable establishment of grid (although it had one up to a few months ago). Tried reset, updated firmware, still nothing!

I'm a simple layman without tech ability (but can follow directions and will keep trying if something works ) Frank70 has been very helpful before. Mocking comments respected as well.

Recommendations as to procedures to reestablish the system are greatly appreciated!

UPDATE -

Last night I tried "System Settings" and changed zip code from 08558 to 08557, and lo and behold tonight I have a correct clock and a grid that's filled in, but it doesn't correspond to Comcast for Hillsborough, NJ (wrong channels set in grid)...I'll change back to 08558, but does anyone have any add'l suggestions as to how I can force unit to ask me which cable provider I use as it does when functioning correctly in setup, i.e., whether I use Comcast of Hillsborough, NJ based on my zip, and thereby establish the correct grid automatically? If I can get that done and carry on in ignorant bliss I'll be very happy!

For now, the TivoHD is the only third-party product that can support SDV channels.


P.S. bfdtv: Thanks again for encouraging me to buy TiVo vs Moxi back in December. Also, I'm really happy with my decision to buy a 2nd TiVo in case the TVGOS was not available in our area for my Sony DVR after the digital transition. Despite updating the firmware, my Sony is still unable to update the time or TVGOS; so for now, the Sony is simply a backup tuner with an unnecessarily large hard drive...but it appears it will slowly even lose that capability as SDV expands. However, after experiencing owning 2 TiVos, I'll only care about Sony's limited capabilities if I lose a TiVo.

FWIW, Moxi HD DVR now supports SDV tuning adapters. The Sony will not control a SDV tuning adapter, and I doubt Sony will release any firmware updates for this issue. SDV will put a damper on the capabilities of the Sony for cable users as SDV rolls out. Good thing for the ATSC tuner. That will be around for awhile.:)

??? Well, I assume that 9.1 has a TVGOS broadcast SCHEDULE, and there are periods when it is NOT broadcasting TVGOS...:confused:

It has the same broadcast shedule as the rest of the country. I mean that it is not broadcasting the data when it should be. Tuning to 13.1 (CBS, Baltimore) when this happens, I find the data being transmitted as it should be. For some reason, 9.1 stops transmitting TVGOS completely, then restarts transmissions at a later point in time. I'm not sure if this is because the equipment in down for maintenance, being swapped for newer equipment, or they are having problems with the equipment (either known or unbeknownst to them). Worst case is over the weekend. Not long enough to cause me any problems. My recorders get data from 13.1 when 9.1 is unavailable. I only mentioned it because the original poster is in Virginia and may not get 13.1 reception. I just wanted them to know that if they couldn't get grid data, it might not be the fault of the recorder or its software.

And this happens even when it sets to the same host channel that it had before? That must be annoying.

Mark

VERY!:( Sometimes I'm happy that it doesn't find a host station. It takes a lot of time to get everything set up the way I want it.

On a related note: Both recorders just set 9.1 as the host channel (about 12 hours apart). I am monitoring the 753... menus to see how long each keeps its host and if there is a loss and reconnection. If either goes longer than three days, I will post results.

Hi, just a suggestion to anyone who has'nt downloaded the firmware version update from the Sony support section of their website. I did so ,(& keeping my fingers crossed) I have been reliably recieving my TVGOS schedule since I've done so. It's free & was worth the effort (for me at least). Give it a try!

The new firmware is both a half step forward and a half step back. I am running .06 and .13 firmware and have had no problems. I have even survived a spontaneous reset. From what I have read here, installing .21 causes the G* Test to stop functioning. I have found the G* Test to be useful in determining if my TVGOS sources are actually broadcasting the data. The only thing that .21 will do for you that the previous firmware will not is it will allow you to recover from a full reset to the baseline TVGOS software. Firmware versions prior to .21 use a baseline TVGOS software version that will not receive data from a digital station and, therefore, cannot update to the current software version or receive data. Firmware version .21 updates the baseline TVGOS software to a version that will do this. I have no idea why they disabled the G* Test. It appears that the only time it is absolutely necessary to do this upgrade is if you have performed a full factory reset, two consecutive TVGOS resets, or had a reset unintentionally performed for you (power outage, etc.). I haven't seen anyone post about any other improvements incorporated with .21 firmware.

I'm currently attempting this with my HDD500 firmware 1.2.06 using WUSA-DT (9.1) DC but over FIOS with cablecard (509 on FIOS.) My unit had been getting guide data solidly (cept when WUSA-DT seems to not broadcast TVGOS data every now and then.) However it was 'resetting' randomly at least once a week. Would lose clock and I had to run G* to get it back each time. Got sick of that and thought I should clear/reset my TVGOS info. I probably should upgrade to .21 firmware...but wanted to see if I could regain grid with .06.

I'm basically following frank70's procedure (see http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=55.0) and it took me like 3 days to get from 08.01.42/00.00.00 to 08.01.42/08.06.44. I'm to the point now of around trying to acquire host channel, correct time and grid. No luck over last 24 hours. I repeated steps 10-12 (run G*, up/down channel, run VBI search channel, turn unit off) this morning...so hopefully I won't have to wait more than a day or two for my unit to lock onto a host channel. But apparently by some reports this takes up to weeks. BTW since I'm FIOS there should be a solid HD signal all the time (vs OTA reception issues.)

You won't get a host channel or grid until you get your clock back. You should monitor the 753... menus. You won't get a correct clock until you get a Time Zone packet and they seem to be transmitted far less frequently than they were in the analog world. I have gone for days without receiving one and have also received them on an hourly basis. I have no explanation for the randomness of transmission. Since you are FIOS (which means you are digital), I am surprised that you could get to from 08.01.42/00.00.00 to 08.01.42/08.06.44 without the .21 firmware update. I thought that the reason for .21 was that you couldn't do this with earlier firmware versions. Please keep us posted. I am very interested in your progress.

Sometimes I'm happy that it doesn't find a host station. It takes a lot of time to get everything set up the way I want it.

You can easily guarantee that it won't find a host station. After you've gotten your channel lineup, go to Setup --> Change System Settings and change the ZIP code to one that's outside the areas served by any of your host stations. Then it will search forever in vain for a host station, while still downloading program listings from whatever host station happens to be "in sight."

That's how I stopped the curious behavior described in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16956239&highlight=#post16956239). I entered a ZIP code from my home town in Ohio instead of my current ZIP code in South Carolina. Since then, the Host Chan field on that unit has remained blank, and I've gotten uninterrupted program listings.

................... From what I have read here, installing .21 causes the G* Test to stop functioning. I have found the G* Test to be useful in determining if my TVGOS sources are actually broadcasting the data.................

The .21 firmware lets you determine if your TVGOS is working by viewing the ATSC Slicer screen. You can watch the values on this screen increment in real-time, just like the old G*test screen. :) I believe that the G*test does actually still function with the .21 firmware, but only with an analog channel.

This is the ATSC-Slicer page, showing packets received from the digital PBS HostChan, as well a packets from the current channel (digital CBS)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=145733&d=1245362942

The new firmware is both a half step forward and a half step back. I am running .06 and .13 firmware and have had no problems. I have even survived a spontaneous reset. From what I have read here, installing .21 causes the G* Test to stop functioning. I have found the G* Test to be useful in determining if my TVGOS sources are actually broadcasting the data.

Not exactly true. The G* test no longer reports VBI activity for a digital host channel, but it will still "turn on" the digital flow as it always did. I see WS65711 has posted a pic of the new ATSC slicer screen which shows activity in the CurrChan column when you're tuned to a digital host channel. So you actually get more information now.

The only thing that .21 will do for you that the previous firmware will not is it will allow you to recover from a full reset to the baseline TVGOS software. Firmware versions prior to .21 use a baseline TVGOS software version that will not receive data from a digital station and, therefore, cannot update to the current software version or receive data. Firmware version .21 updates the baseline TVGOS software to a version that will do this

snip...
Since you are FIOS (which means you are digital), I am surprised that you could get to from 08.01.42/00.00.00 to 08.01.42/08.06.44 without the .21 firmware update. I thought that the reason for .21 was that you couldn't do this with earlier firmware versions. Please keep us posted. I am very interested in your progress.

I'm confused. :confused: IIRC, you were testing recovery using a digital host only around the same time I was doing that also. Getting from 00.00.00 to 08.06.44 was not a problem even with the older FW versions. There were other problems with the tests, but that wasn't one of them (or at least not for my tests).

You can easily guarantee that it won't find a host station. After you've gotten your channel lineup, go to Setup --> Change System Settings and change the ZIP code to one that's outside the areas served by any of your host stations. Then it will search forever in vain for a host station, while still downloading program listings from whatever host station happens to be "in sight."

That's how I stopped the curious behavior described in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16956239&highlight=#post16956239). I entered a ZIP code from my home town in Ohio instead of my current ZIP code in South Carolina. Since then, the Host Chan field on that unit has remained blank, and I've gotten uninterrupted program listings.

Good idea jtbell. I never thought of trying that when I had that problem. I just did the zip code change a couple of times a week.

Mark

The only thing that .21 will do for you that the previous firmware will not is it will allow you to recover from a full reset to the baseline TVGOS software. Firmware versions prior to .21 use a baseline TVGOS software version that will not receive data from a digital station and, therefore, cannot update to the current software version or receive data. Firmware version .21 updates the baseline TVGOS software to a version that will do this. I have no idea why they disabled the G* Test.


Where do I begin to try to put this misinformation to rest? I recovered from a complete reset a couple of times with the .13 firmware, before .21 was released. I'd even be willing to do a 'Restore Factory Defaults' back to .13, and do it again if anyone wants me to. What we learned with the release of the .21 firmware, is if you were gridless with the .13 firmware... you would probably continue to be gridless after the .21 firmware. I think there might have been 2 (out of maybe 10) people, on this board, who got grids back when the .21 firmware was released. I think most of the gridless people put their DVRs up on ebay, and went out and bought Tivos, or DTVPal DVRs.

The .21 firmware was not a fix for that problem at all, since that problem is directly related to the TVGOS data being transmitted in different areas. Just like the infrequent sending of Timezone packets in your area (and mine), some areas get 0 timezone packets. There is also other information that is missing in different areas preventing people from getting grids. (Ask HoustonPerson what a "success" the .21 firmware was for him in getting his grid back). Here are some of the areas that I know of that are missing key pieces of data that prevents them from getting a grid: Houston, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Buffalo. I'm sure there are others... seems like some areas in Florida are gridless also.

The good news is that from what you have been saying about your host channel setting and clearing, it indicates to me that you can recover your grid even with only the .13 firmware. The length of time it will take to get a grid where you are is about the same length of time that it takes your host channel to set after it blanks... I know that may be a few days to a week, but you will get the grid.


It appears that the only time it is absolutely necessary to do this upgrade is if you have performed a full factory reset, two consecutive TVGOS resets, or had a reset unintentionally performed for you (power outage, etc.).


I recommend the upgrade for anyone who never wants to have to run the G* Test again, after one of the events you listed. If you don't run the G* Test with the older firmware, the DVR is just a brick. I don't remember when the last time was that I ran the G* Test (several resets ago). There is plenty of evidence in the 753 menu screens (even with the old firmware) to indicate whether your DVR is getting data or not.


I haven't seen anyone post about any other improvements incorporated with .21 firmware.

Not having to run the G* Test after a reset to get the digital data flowing, is really the only change I see in the .21 software.

Mark

I'm confused. :confused: IIRC, you were testing recovery using a digital host only around the same time I was doing that also. Getting from 00.00.00 to 08.06.44 was not a problem even with the older FW versions. There were other problems with the tests, but that wasn't one of them (or at least not for my tests).

I was also puzzled by his comments.

Mark

Okay, so here I am again. The analog shut-off came and went with no change to my 2 DVRs. I'm lucky enough to live in the New Haven County Comcast system. The Comcast head-end tech here confirms that the optional equipment to convert the digital guide data to analog was installed. So I have data on the digital and analog cable channels for the local PBS. Of course, no matter what I do, the DVRs prefer the analog source even with the .21 upgrade. BTW, with an live analog data source the G*Test still works like it always did with the upgrade.

Here's my new problem: today the digital channels stopped tuning. A rescan of the cable channels resulted in no digital channels being found (there used to be about 60). A few hours later and the video output has stopped working. The DVR info boxes, guide, and menus are still viewable on the TV, but there is no video from the analog channels or from the previously recorded shows??? I have not tried hooking it up differently (HDMI, s-video, etc) yet because it will be an ordeal. The second DVR is working just fine and also still has the digital channels. Both boxes reported internal temps of about 105 degrees when it was scorching outside. I'm thinking something burned out. FYI, I do not use cable cards. Any ideas???

The only channel that has recording lockup is USAHD....even after factory reset...dumped everything. Comcast SF Bay Area.
Why!!!!

Not having to run the G* Test after a reset to get the digital data flowing, is really the only change I see in the .21 software.

Too bad, as you have said yourself (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16547187&post16547187), that this is only true for OTA TVGOS sources.

After Contacting my Host Station asking them if they were sending the TVGOS signal, they had told me they had to shut it down for now on count of the feed disrupting (crashing) those Magnavox Boxes. I'm assuming they must be a popular converter box alot of people must have purchased with there government coupons because of the digital transition. They are working on a new solution to the problem, and slowly my dvr is beginning to work again. First i started getting adds, then finally a clock on the front panel serveral days later. I still have not EPG or even a grid yet. I was told that what ever is in the signal that sends the updates for the time was what was causing the problem. Maybe i got a clock because they turned that part of the signal on for a short time testing things out.

Maybe this has something to do with the reason that some areas seem to have infrequent (or no) TimeZonePkts?

Too bad, as you have said yourself (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16547187&post16547187), that this is only true for OTA TVGOS sources.

Yes, I did say that, and it is true that when the DVR is on, if you want to see live data, some people have to run the G* Test. However what I was really referring to was the ability of the DVR to process digital data on its own after any kind of reset. With the .21 firmware the digital processing is turned on by default. With previous versions of firmware (and a digital TVGOS source), you had to run the G* Test after any kind of reset, or your DVR was a brick until you did.

Mark

The .21 firmware lets you determine if your TVGOS is working by viewing the ATSC Slicer screen. You can watch the values on this screen increment in real-time, just like the old G*test screen. :) I believe that the G*test does actually still function with the .21 firmware, but only with an analog channel.

This is the ATSC-Slicer page, showing packets received from the digital PBS HostChan, as well a packets from the current channel (digital CBS)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=145733&d=1245362942

You could do this with the old firmware as well (see some of my earlier posts). I was trying to point out differences between running the old firmware and the new firmware. The G* Test works with digital channels with the old firmware, but not with the new firmware. This is a loss of functionality albeit a small one. Thus, a half step back. The new firmware enables a recovery from a full reset where, in theory, the old firmware does not. I say "in theory" because a recent poster claims to have recovered to the latest TVGOS software version from a full reset under .06 firmware. So, maybe not even a half step forward. I haven't seen anyone post any other differences. Let me know if I missed something.

You can easily guarantee that it won't find a host station. After you've gotten your channel lineup, go to Setup --> Change System Settings and change the ZIP code to one that's outside the areas served by any of your host stations. Then it will search forever in vain for a host station, while still downloading program listings from whatever host station happens to be "in sight."

That's how I stopped the curious behavior described in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16956239&highlight=#post16956239). I entered a ZIP code from my home town in Ohio instead of my current ZIP code in South Carolina. Since then, the Host Chan field on that unit has remained blank, and I've gotten uninterrupted program listings.

This is a good idea. I haven't given up on locking in a host channel yet, but when I do I will implement this. Thanks.

Not exactly true. The G* test no longer reports VBI activity for a digital host channel, but it will still "turn on" the digital flow as it always did. I see WS65711 has posted a pic of the new ATSC slicer screen which shows activity in the CurrChan column when you're tuned to a digital host channel. So you actually get more information now.


I stand corrected. Since I am not running .21, thanks for clearing that up.


I'm confused. :confused: IIRC, you were testing recovery using a digital host only around the same time I was doing that also. Getting from 00.00.00 to 08.06.44 was not a problem even with the older FW versions. There were other problems with the tests, but that wasn't one of them (or at least not for my tests).

If you can update to the latest TVGOS software version from a digital channel without installing .21 firmware, then what is the point of the .21 release. We all know that you can receive TVGOS data from a digital channel running 08.06.44 software. Supposedly, after a full reset you couldn't get the TVGOS software updates because the baseline version of the software (08.01.42 for most of us) wouldn't receive data from a digital channel. If this is not correct, then the .21 firmware release wasn't necessary.

I recommend the upgrade for anyone who never wants to have to run the G* Test again, after one of the events you listed. If you don't run the G* Test with the older firmware, the DVR is just a brick. Mark

No problems with the rest of your post, but this isn't correct. I just takes a little longer to recover if you don't run the G* Test.

At the three day mark, one recorder (.13) has dropped its host channel and the second recorder (.06) is still going strong.

If you guys would realize it would make far more sense to discuss this feature that is NOT exclusive to this device in the dedicated thread for TVGOS in the Technical forum. That way, members with other devices that don't vist this forum might benefit.

BTW, those last five posts could of been combined into one.

^^^

And, bickering posts removed.

If you guys would realize it would make far more sense to discuss this feature that is NOT exclusive to this device in the dedicated thread for TVGOS in the Technical forum. That way, members with other devices that don't vist this forum might benefit.

BTW, those last five posts could of been combined into one.

The posts were in response to four different people as I was reading through the thread and one original post that I promised in an earlier post. The topic is the .21 firmware release by Sony and is specific to this thread.

That doesn't mean they can't all be in the same post.
I have answered many posts from different mrembers in one post as long as they were related issues that didn't require involved responses. IOW's, short answers.

videobruce -

I sure hope you don't succeed in your apparent attempt to chase all of the knowledgeable participants from this thread. :rolleyes:

Can anyone give me some straight simple advice for how to get my grid to match up to my Comcast stations in central NJ? I've got the latest Sony firmware update, have run System setup a few times, and still nothing?

Thx.

Can anyone give me some straight simple advice for how to get my grid to match up to my Comcast stations in central NJ? I've got the latest Sony firmware update, have run System setup a few times, and still nothing?

Thx.
That has to be done using your channel editor. It's in the setup screen, second one down "change channel display'. You use it to "remap" your channel numbers to match your cable stations.
Michael

No problems with the rest of your post, but this isn't correct. I just takes a little longer to recover if you don't run the G* Test.

Without running the G* Test, 24 hours was the longest I waited for something to happen after a reset. In that 24 hour period, the DVR didn't receive one piece of VBI data. After running the G* Test the unit came to life (analog didn't have this issue, nor does the .21 firmware). I think you have always used the G* Test enough, that you didn't realize that it serves as an "on" switch for the digital data after a reset has happened. Here is something you can try, unplug your DVR for a minute or so, and then plug it back in. Then wait 24 hours (no fair running the G* Test), and I think you'll see, after 24 hours, that the clock is wrong (from the initial unplug), and that the DVR didn't receive overnight listings.

Mark

[QUOTE=mabuttra;17049830]Without running the G* Test, 24 hours was the longest I waited for something to happen after a reset. In that 24 hour period, the DVR didn't receive one piece of VBI data. After running the G* Test the unit came to life (analog didn't have this issue, nor does the .21 firmware). I think you have always used the G* Test enough, that you didn't realize that it serves as an "on" switch for the digital data after a reset has happened. Here is something you can try, unplug your DVR for a minute or so, and then plug it back in. Then wait 24 hours (no fair running the G* Test), and I think you'll see, after 24 hours, that the clock is wrong (from the initial unplug), and that the DVR didn't receive overnight listings.

Mark,
Sorry but your wrong. I lose power several times a week with thunder storms here. I get my clock back in less than 15 minuets with my .21 firmware. I never have to jump start with doing a g-test, but I do leave the dhg tunned to my host channel.

That has to be done using your channel editor. It's in the setup screen, second one down "change channel display'. You use it to "remap" your channel numbers to match your cable stations.
Michael
No way to force DVR to automate process (i.e., recognize my local cable co.) as was case when initially set up with zip code? Thx.

In a previous post you mentioned trying a neighboring ZIP code unsuccessfully. You might try a few more to see if you can hit on a suitable lineup. Here's an interactive ZIP code map that might help you choose them:

http://maps.huge.info/zip.htm

Start with your own ZIP code and then you can scroll around to find other ones.

...(analog didn't have this issue, nor does the .21 firmware)...



Mark,
Sorry but your wrong. I lose power several times a week with thunder storms here. I get my clock back in less than 15 minuets with my .21 firmware. I never have to jump start with doing a g-test, but I do leave the dhg tunned to my host channel.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was talking about the pre-.21 firmware. The .21 firmware fixed this problem (as I mentioned in the bolded line). For me, that fix alone was worth installing the .21 firmware.

Mark

At the three day mark, one recorder (.13) has dropped its host channel and the second recorder (.06) is still going strong.

Is there an update on your .06 unit? Did its host channel clear?

Mark

That could be the trick as I'd been trying a zip code one digit off which was incorrect...I'll try this tonight; many thx!

Anyone else that's OTA in Los Angeles find they're missing everything today? Both my DHGs are showing no activity at all in the CurrChan column of the ATSC Slicer screen when tuned to 2-1. Day 8 is all no listings and there are no ads either. Only the DL schedule is current for today.

Possumgirl,

I was waiting to see if anyone was noticing changes. Only "two" ads here, SysIdleID and GuideIdleID have changed their patterns in activity-flow rate. One channel, has a "no listing" on Day 8 this late afternoon (very rare). And since yesterday, with the expected forth day "NumSearch".........HostSUFlags went to 0xe28, and has stopped - been that way for about 14 hours.

There is still data coming into the box; but flow rates for different elements are completly different. Maybe this means they have a fix for HostChannel? LOL

The biggest change of all - the fifth column of "System Reset Info - Dumps" has data in it. Never seen that before. As of yet, the box has not done any "resets".

Back in December 08, the local PBS station stopped broadcasting the analog TVguide.

I've not gotten a tv guide, nor a CLOCK, since then.

I would be happy to at least get an acurate clock back.

There is no one broadcasting TVGOS, analog or digital, in my market, at this time.

Am I SOL, or is there a way for me to at least get a Clock back?

(I've searched this forum and SpiffSpace forum, but have not found a clear answer/solution to this.)

Thank you very much.

A few weeks ago, I got my grid back in one day after a TVGOS reset from the 9012 menu.

When I finish archiving the remaining recordings on my 250, using a Hauppauge HD PVR, I'm going to do a full "Restore Factory Defaults", re-install 1.2.21 and see how things go then.

I finally cleared the hard disk last weekend. On Sunday morning I did a "Restore Factory Defaults", scanned for channels, set up TVGOS and re-installed 1.2.21.

During the day on Sunday the TVGOS version updated from 08.01.71 to 08.05.40. By Monday morning it had updated to 08.06.44, with ads but no channel grid. This morning (Tuesday), the grid showed up with partial listings, and I now have full listings for eight days.

(OTA only, as usual.)

There is no one broadcasting TVGOS, analog or digital, in my market, at this time.

Am I SOL, or is there a way for me to at least get a Clock back?

You have to have a TVGOS signal in order to set the clock, unfortunately.

You have to have a TVGOS signal in order to set the clock, unfortunately.

I was afraid of that. I thought I read somewhere that someone was trying to "broadcast" a clock feed to the Sony through a VCR clock or something like that. Is that a possibility at all? How is that done?

Thanks again.

Back in December 08, the local PBS station stopped broadcasting the analog TVguide.

I've not gotten a tv guide, nor a CLOCK, since then.

I would be happy to at least get an acurate clock back.

There is no one broadcasting TVGOS, analog or digital, in my market, at this time.

Am I SOL, or is there a way for me to at least get a Clock back?

(I've searched this forum and SpiffSpace forum, but have not found a clear answer/solution to this.)

Thank you very much.

What market are you in? My PBS stopped analog June12 and just started digital TVGOS a few weeks ago., they had to get internet to their transmitter site. You may need to email ROVI or your local PBS to see if a station in your market will start digital soon.

What market are you in? My PBS stopped analog June12 and just started digital TVGOS a few weeks ago., they had to get internet to their transmitter site. You may need to email ROVI or your local PBS to see if a station in your market will start digital soon.

I'm in Bismarck, North Dakota. I am told that the CBS affiliate here has no plans whatsoever to broadcast the TVGOS data.

It was the local PBS affiliate that broadcasted that data previously. Maybe they might consider doing it again, for digital.

I would be happy enough if I could just set the clock correctly on the Sony, so I could set manual recordings.

I'm in Bismarck, North Dakota. I am told that the CBS affiliate here has no plans whatsoever to broadcast the TVGOS data.

It was the local PBS affiliate that broadcasted that data previously. Maybe they might consider doing it again, for digital.

That's what happened here in South Carolina. SC ETV carried analog TVGOS on all their stations until they shut off analog completely in February. Rovi/Macrovision apparently didn't sign them up originally to handle digital TVGOS because they thought the CBS stations would do it. But only one in SC did (the one in Columbia), so they ended up going back to SC ETV which started to install digital TVGOS equipment in July and have now finished all of their stations.

Anyone else that's OTA in Los Angeles find they're missing everything today? Both my DHGs are showing no activity at all in the CurrChan column of the ATSC Slicer screen when tuned to 2-1. Day 8 is all no listings and there are no ads either. Only the DL schedule is current for today.

This morning all seems back to "normal??" for Houston. 74 ads in place; HostSUFlags got back to 0xe68 (have not seen 0xe78 in 1 or 2 weeks?), all 8 days filled in. The GuideIdleID and SysIdleID now appear to have a very structured flow rate, with numbers that change on a predetermined pattern. Not chaotic like before - that appears to be something new. This whole little past 24 hours event - IMO - appears to be some sort of adjustment phase via MV/Rovi.

Yesterday I finally got around to finding my missing channel 55-1 KTBU in the channel editor lists - it was close to position 500 or so. Turned it "on" and today it has all 8 day listings complete.

Anyone else that's OTA in Los Angeles find they're missing everything today? Both my DHGs are showing no activity at all in the CurrChan column of the ATSC Slicer screen when tuned to 2-1. Day 8 is all no listings and there are no ads either. Only the DL schedule is current for today.

I lost data at the same time too -- still missing the second day. Something is going on at KCBS. Does anyone in the LA area have a way to contact engineering there?

I lost data at the same time too -- still missing the second day. Something is going on at KCBS. Does anyone in the LA area have a way to contact engineering there?

Around 9:30AM today I used the "contact us" form on their website to report the problem. I don't know if that's what did the trick, but I checked my units at noon and both are now receiving data again so it looks like the inserter (or whatever was not working) is functioning again.

Around 9:30AM today I used the "contact us" form on their website to report the problem. I don't know if that's what did the trick, but I checked my units at noon and both are now receiving data again so it looks like the inserter (or whatever was not working) is functioning again.

Well that is interesting... I just checked at 12:55 PM and I still have no data coming in from KCBS and No Listings for the seventh and eigth days. I will let you know when it resumes here.

Should I have to do a Factory Reset, the clock is going to be set at midnight on 1/1/2004 according to Spiff. I would like to make a tape that will set my time and day-of-week. That should mean that I can record a VHS tape starting at noon tomorrow for several hours. Then, should I lose my TVGOS signal, I can play this tape on any Thursday at noon and my clock and DOW should be correct, allowing manual recordings. Am I wrong? Any errors in my logic? I have already made tapes that will set my version, Zipcode, timezone and lineup and they work fine. Thanks for any feedback.

I was afraid of that. I thought I read somewhere that someone was trying to "broadcast" a clock feed to the Sony through a VCR clock or something like that. Is that a possibility at all? How is that done?

Thanks again.

If you had a VHS tape of your host channel you can play it to the Sony via the cable or antenna input. I have tried this and it works. But the time setting is the time you made the tape. As you can see from a later post, I'm going to try to set the clock and day-of-week to make manual recordings easier. I am cable only, so the VCR output makes this more simple than an OTA system. I do get a lot of cable leakage from the area, but that hasn't caused any problems.

Your problem is that you may need a tape that sets your time zone and maybe your zip code. Do you have any friends that get TVGOS via cable in your local area that could make you a tape? You will need a VCR that has a channel 3/4 output. DVD/VCR combos usually do not do that. It's a beginning, but not the final solution. All my recordings are manual now anyway, but I am going to try to get the Sony to work even if I lose my cable data and also avoid the extra work of converting times & days.

As an fyi, I have a classified listing here on AVS for a unit that I will be selling. It is the DHG-HDD250. Thanks.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=11338

Around 9:30AM today I used the "contact us" form on their website to report the problem. I don't know if that's what did the trick, but I checked my units at noon and both are now receiving data again so it looks like the inserter (or whatever was not working) is functioning again.

As of 11pm last night, KCBS had some data flowing again and a partial fill in of the seventh and eighth days had occurred on my 500. By this morning, all eight days are filled in once again. It appears it was some glitch at the local station that is now resolved, as no one else in the country seems to have been having problems with data. I did lose my Host Channel, but that is no surprise... it will probably return in a few days. The machine seems to no longer need that field filled in to receive program listings.

So do people around LA have a host channel? Just curious...

Mine's had a blank host channel since June 12, and there are no DLs in the record since June, although I've had consistent listings (often with some gaps for day 8)..

Reading through all the issues that the DTVPal has had, makes these Sony boxes look like gold. Sony has had very little hardware issuses (no drifting clocks, daily reboots, etc..) and not any real Sony related software problems. Most all the problems here are with the TVGOS system.
All in all the Sony is rock solid when compared to the Pal. Just a shame they are no longer in production.
Michael

So do people around LA have a host channel? Just curious...

Mine's had a blank host channel since June 12, and there are no DLs in the record since June, although I've had consistent listings (often with some gaps for day 8)..

Yes, my host comes and goes here in LA. Sometimes it is shown as 43.0 and sometimes 2.1 and sometimes blank. It does not seem to affect the reception of program data.

Yes, my host comes and goes here in LA. Sometimes it is shown as 43.0 and sometimes 2.1 and sometimes blank. It does not seem to affect the reception of program data.

The only time that you must have a HostChan is when you are attempting to acquire a Channel Lineup (Grid). After you have the precious Grid, the unit functions perfectly fine without having the HostChan set. :)

After you have the precious Grid, the unit functions perfectly fine without having the HostChan set. :)

And for me at least, it works better without having HostChan set than with!

For anyone who is interested, I have just recovered from a complete reset in a digital environment with the 1.2.13 firmware. You can follow the results here (http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080142/intro.htm). My goal is to put to rest the claims that the 08.01.42 TVGOS base software does not work in a digital environment. It works if macrovision/rovi is providing complete TVGOS data (which we already know is not the case in some parts of the country).

Mark

I cannot get my DHG-HDD250 to delete recordings, record is set to 'save until i delete', menus followed per owners manual.Any suggestions,ideas?

I cannot get my DHG-HDD250 to delete recordings, record is set to 'save until i delete', menus followed per owners manual.Any suggestions,ideas?Ok, let me sort this out... you press "REC LIST", you cursor down to the episode you want to delete, you press "MENU", you cursor down to "delete episode", and you press "SELECT". Exactly what happens then? Assuming that after doing those things the episode is still in your REC LIST, did you get any pop-up messages when you pressed "SELECT" as to why it couldn't be deleted?

For anyone who is interested, I have just recovered from a complete reset in a digital environment with the 1.2.13 firmware. You can follow the results here (http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080142/intro.htm).

On the Step 1 page, after you've restored your Sony to its factory default of 1.2.13, you note:

[...] even though I am tuned to my digital host channel, there is no sign of any data updating on any of these screens. The reason is that the reset has left the processing of the digital TVGOS data turned off. I have found that if I turn off the DVR at this point, nothing will happen. The TVGOS system is basically dead. I believe this condition is what Macrovision is referring to when they say the Sony can't work in a digital environment.

That's what I think, too.

What they don't mention though is that there is a way to turn on the processing of the digital TVGOS data. To do this you just have to run the G* Test (found in the 9012 hidden menu).

But this is an undocumented procedure that isn't described in the Sony's manual. Also, the 9012 menu looks to me like a "Sony thing" rather than a "Macrovision thing." I wouldn't expect Macrovision to provide information about undocumented features that are specific to a single device. Any official support involving that procedure would have to come from Sony. And Sony has officially provided a different solution in the form of the 1.2.21 upgrade.

For anyone who is interested, I have just recovered from a complete reset in a digital environment with the 1.2.13 firmware. You can follow the results here (http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080142/intro.htm). My goal is to put to rest the claims that the 08.01.42 TVGOS base software does not work in a digital environment. It works if macrovision/rovi is providing complete TVGOS data (which we already know is not the case in some parts of the country).

Mark

Mark, excellent job documenting the entire process. It confirms what I, and others, found when we tested months ago except that we could never complete the test due to the presence of analog host(s).

It also shows that the only thing the 1.2.21 firmware did was eliminate the need for the G* test to resume the digital flow.

Hi Mark, you need to fix the image links on those pages, e.g.

/mabuttra/tvgos/080142/images\000.jpg

The backslash before the file name at the end, should be a forward slash instead.

Thanks, see if that works better. Obviously webpage design is not my calling. :)

Mark

OK, looks good now. :) I'll delete my post because it's become irrelevant.

Have you all you are using a cable card on the DHG-HDD250/500 found that you can get most or all the very same channels as you did before when using your cable company's provided box. I'm thinking about turning my cable box in, if my 250 can the same as replace it. In other words, if I punch in, say, channel 740 in the cable card installed 250, will it show the same as the cable box.

But this is an undocumented procedure that isn't described in the Sony's manual. Also, the 9012 menu looks to me like a "Sony thing" rather than a "Macrovision thing." I wouldn't expect Macrovision to provide information about undocumented features that are specific to a single device. Any official support involving that procedure would have to come from Sony. And Sony has officially provided a different solution in the form of the 1.2.21 upgrade.

Your point is well taken. I guess we shouldn't expect Macrovision to tell people how to do undocumented procedures, especially if it was Sony that created the ability to do it. I have re-worded that part of step 1 so it doesn't sound like Macrovision is intentionally withholding information. Could it be that it was the Sony engineers that made it possible for 08.01.42 to work in a digital environment?

Mark

Your point is well taken. I guess we shouldn't expect Macrovision to tell people how to do undocumented procedures, especially if it was Sony that created the ability to do it. I have re-worded that part of step 1 so it doesn't sound like Macrovision is intentionally withholding information. Could it be that it was the Sony engineers that made it possible for 08.01.42 to work in a digital environment?

MarkThe G* test is not a Sony thing though. There is a 9-digit code to start it (can't recall what that code is, but when I knew it, I tried it on the Sony and it worked) that doesn't require going through the Sony menus.

Ok, let me sort this out... you press "REC LIST", you cursor down to the episode you want to delete, you press "MENU", you cursor down to "delete episode", and you press "SELECT". Exactly what happens then? Assuming that after doing those things the episode is still in your REC LIST, did you get any pop-up messages when you pressed "SELECT" as to why it couldn't be deleted?

Exactly what i am doing; no pop up messages. Won't even delete when i select the delete option below exit to tv when i stop playback

Have you all you are using a cable card on the DHG-HDD250/500 found that you can get most or all the very same channels as you did before when using your cable company's provided box. I'm thinking about turning my cable box in, if my 250 can the same as replace it. In other words, if I punch in, say, channel 740 in the cable card installed 250, will it show the same as the cable box.

Part 1 - Not likely. The channel numbers from a box or Cable Card are mapped as your provider decides. Go to one of the web TV listing sites and see if you can find your provider. I use TitanTV.com which has four selections for my area: OTA, plus three cable (includes two digital). I still receive analog basic cable as shown on the Sony Guide and that is also on TitanTV. Should I select (on Titan TV) the digital cable or OTA, those numbers have no relationship to what I get without a cable card on either my Sony DHD *OR* Sony Bravia TV. Also, my digital basic cable channels were scrambled until 6 months ago.

Part 2 - The cable signals sent on clear QAM256, like local NBC HD, or TNT SD from my cable company are decoded by the Sony devices as XXX.XXXX (MSNBC is 26.6308, Weather is 106.6706). I keep things straight using the "Favorites" option extensively and a piece of paper.

Part 3 - If you drop the STB and have the Sony .21 update installed, you will not be able to do manual recordings because of Part 2 above. I'm using the .13 update.

I have almost the same issues with my LG LST-3410A.

Have you all you are using a cable card on the DHG-HDD250/500 found that you can get most or all the very same channels as you did before when using your cable company's provided box. I'm thinking about turning my cable box in, if my 250 can the same as replace it. In other words, if I punch in, say, channel 740 in the cable card installed 250, will it show the same as the cable box.

With my cable system, Comcast of Northern Virginia, I get the same channels and QAM channel numbers via the cable card in my Sony DHG as I do via the STB hooked to my TV. Be aware that there have been some problems reported with cable cards not passing clock or TVGOS data through to the Sony. Be sure to request a multi-stream card; even with that, though, you won't be able to access PPV or on-demand selections.

I wrote Rovi about getting a TVGOS debug manual and here are the two replys I received:
The first Email and their reply:
--------------- Original Message ---------------
From: Michael A. Johnson
Sent: 7/21/2009 9:27 AM
To: Ce_customer_support@rovicorp.com
Subject: Training manual for digital TVGOS

Do you have available a training guide for the digital TVGOS system.
I am trying to find some updated information on the diagnostic screens ( under the 753... menu) for the digital tvgos. Most important would be which screens are relevant and what information would I need in order to trouble shoot guide problems or lack thereof.
What do I need from the diagnostics to help in determining when or how I will get a grid and channel lineup with listings after a reset back to factory defaults.
Thank You,
Michael

Michael, This information is not provided to consumers only to our CE Partners as it is mostly engineering debug information. If this as I am sure related to your lost listings if you can provide the following we can investigate this for you.

Best Regards
CE Technical Support

This is the second Email and their reply:
--------------- Original Message ---------------
From: Michael A. Johnson
Sent: 8/4/2009 4:28 PM
To: ce_customer_support@rovicorp.com
Subject: Re: Training manual for digital TVGOS [ ref:00D49pu7.50048Fupd:ref ]

Thank you for your reply. As of now I have listings, but since things are
now digital, I would like to get a copy of the TVGOS digital debug manual.

Dear Michael,

There is no such "TVGOS digital debug manual" that you speak of.

We are happy to hear that you have listings and a working guide. We are closing this case as there does not appear to be any TVGOS problem you need help with.

Thank you.
I received this last reply on the 27th of August. You can see when I Emailed them on the 4th of August.
Michael

Exactly what i am doing; no pop up messages. Won't even delete when i select the delete option below exit to tv when i stop playbackMy (usual) guess is that the dvr is in Demo Mode.
See:
http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html#Section114

The G* test is not a Sony thing though. There is a 9-digit code to start it (can't recall what that code is, but when I knew it, I tried it on the Sony and it worked) that doesn't require going through the Sony menus.

The nine digit code to run the factory test (G test) is: 971397135

All nine digit codes can be used by highlighting "change systems settings" that is located in the set up menu. There is no need to go into the service menu of any TVGOS enabled device to perform any test or reset of the guide itself.

Other commonly used TVGOS codes:
1. Clear reset info 111222333 ( Do this before a Full system reset)
2. Full system reset 653274147 (sets guide back to its factory default condition)
3. Diagnostics 753159852
4 Run factory test (G test) 971397135

For anyone who is interested, I have just recovered from a complete reset in a digital environment with the 1.2.13 firmware. You can follow the results here (http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080142/intro.htm). My goal is to put to rest the claims that the 08.01.42 TVGOS base software does not work in a digital environment. It works if macrovision/rovi is providing complete TVGOS data (which we already know is not the case in some parts of the country).

Mark

Mark nice work, and very detailed.

It would be very nice if someone would put together a list of those cities, where the Sony box can set Host Channel on its own - I assume that would be with the .21 update so that the G Test would not have to be run?

My feeling is, it is a low percentage of cities where that is occurring?

The "so-called" third tier support from Sony, tells me Houston should set Host Channel once a month - but I have not seen it.

After many months (since the transition) of no host channel but consistent digital TVGOS and clock data from CBS 5.1 (cable) and no problems, about 10 days ago my 250 suddenly locked onto a host channel, analog CBS 5 on cable (same for clock channel). My listings are still coming in solid, but unfortunately now every time I watch a previous recording at the same time a current recording is in progress, things either hangup or spontaneously reboot. It doesn't matter if the live recording starts first and later I try to play back an old one, or vice versa, the problems eventually start. (Same thing when I try to delay a live recording.) Either operation by itself seems to work fine; if I wait until recording is finished I can watch it no problem.

It doesn't make sense to me that the host appearing and these problems are related, yet the time-coincidence is too much to ignore especially since I never experienced this before. I have done the soft (front panel) reset and later the unplug for 30 seconds reset. Neither helped.

My long-winded question is what is the next level of reset I should try? I don't mind losing schedule or grid since I apparently can get a host channel back, but would like to keep current recordings if possible.

Thanks to all
Jim

This sort of does not make sense. I can do a soft reset or unplug/plug and the box continues to work fine.

Today was a power outage - the pictures tell the story. I think the screens tell me, no Grid until I hook up the Artec again?

Time for Beer.

to jwpottberg:

The exact thing happened to me a few months ago. Recording was simply incompatible with everything else! I followed these instructions
---http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html#Section32
which didn't lose any of my recordings, but did take me through a TVGOS reset. This means you'll have to wait an unknown amount of time to get your grid and listings back! Less than a day for me, but others haven't been so lucky.

(sorry for "messing with" the url above, but the system won't allow a newbie to post a url.)

This sort of does not make sense. I can do a soft reset or unplug/plug and the box continues to work fine.

Today was a power outage - the pictures tell the story. I think the screens tell me, no Grid until I hook up the Artec again?

Time for Beer.

Well if it were me, I would wait and give the unit time to recover on its own. You've got packets coming in so I don't know why you think it won't recover. Patience, patience, patience. :D

Hi I had a similar problem with my DHG-HDD500 a couple of weeks ago where my box reported a hard drive error. I tired to reformat the drive by going into the 9012 menu multiple times and the box could not recover from the error. I then took the hard drives out and downloaded Western Digital's Data Lifeguard diagnostic tools CD and ran the both the short and long diagnostic checks on both drives. Both were reporting no error using the tools. Now hear is the kicker...After I placed the drives back in my DHG-HDD500, the box didn't report an error anymore either....I restored factory defaults on my unit and went though the whole setup process again. It did at this point report that it had recovered from an hard drive error (Note I had tried this also before and was unable to recover from the error) and its running fine...It seems the Sony may be messing around with some special diagnostic logs stored on the hard drive...

Well if it were me, I would wait and give the unit time to recover on its own. You've got packets coming in so I don't know why you think it won't recover. Patience, patience, patience. :D


I don't know? Patience could require a tanker full of Beer. My mind may not recover. Yes there is data coming in the morning (no grid). I did a "00000" (will know results later); but I do not expect much.

DLTimer is missing and a couple of other things - I do not think it will make a Grid? In other words it is just like it was a month before Artec – No Grid.

Still I am missing something? How can it still have grid with unplug/plug or soft reset - but not a power failure.

The Power Failure itself was different than most. Usually a power failure would make all the digital clocks in the house go nuts and would never affect the SonyBox. This time only “one” clock in the house (opposite side of the house) went nuts and the SonyBox lost its Grid. Perhaps some sort of power surge that only affected those two items?

Sony/Rovi do need to get their act together and solve this problem Nationwide!

Mark, Is that correct, I will not get a Grid without DLTimer? (DLTimer was there instantly with Artec).

Later, currently on a Beer Hunt!

I don't know? Patience could require a tanker full of Beer. My mind may not recover. Yes there is data coming in the morning (no grid). I did a "00000" (will know results later); but I do not expect much.


Patience requires leaving it alone....... not futzing with the zipcode every few hours! :rolleyes:

Mark thanks for your update and step by step guide. BTW I'm in the midst of doing a full TVGOS recovery after a TVGOS reset also. Firmware 1.2.06 with digital cablecard FIOS no OTA. My TVG station is CBS WUSA-DT Wash DC FIOS channel 509. I basically did the same steps and was able to get my tvgos patch up to 8.06.44 in about 3 days. However it took about 10 days to FINALLY get a Timezone packet and set my clock correctly. I started getting a grid the next day.

My last (final) issue: The grid I've been getting the past 3 days seems to be the local Comcast lineup. I did zip code 000000 then zip code 20152 but can't seem to get the 'select provider' prompt so I can choose FIOS? 20152 was working with FIOS fine previously. There is that option under Setup->Change System Settings where you can select something like 'I have a lineup but it is incorrect.' When I select it it just takes me to the 'leave DVR off screen.' I believe it should allow me to select a different channel lineup. I assume for some reason the zip I'm using only shows a single lineup available. Any ideas? I'll try another local zip in the meantime.

The G* test is not a Sony thing though. There is a 9-digit code to start it (can't recall what that code is, but when I knew it, I tried it on the Sony and it worked) that doesn't require going through the Sony menus.

I know about the code to start the G* Test, I was just thinking out loud that maybe the Sony engineers added some extra coding for turning on the digital TVGOS data when entering the G* Test from their menus. I played with the G* Test code, and it also turns on the digital data, so there was no extra coding needed.

I saw a message in another forum from someone with a TV that uses 08.01.42. He has a DTVPal connected to his TV, because, as he expected, it can't work in a digital environment. I'm going to try to contact him, and see if he can use the G* Test code to get his TV working without the DTVPal.

Mark

hi
I'm in the Phoenix area and have the Sony HDD250.
A few months ago you folks helped me fix my machine (which had basically turned into a vcr with the digital change) by teaching me where to find the fix and how to apply it. Thanks. I'm hoping someone knows how to fix my latest problem. The TV Guide is working but a few weeks ago channel WB 61.1 stopped showing up. I can manually turn to it on the tv and the DVR but it is not updated with shows in the grid. I have tried to rescan. I have unplugged and plugged the machine back in. I've considered chanting and inscence and smacking the thing. Every other channel in the Phoenix area shows up in the grid but 61.1. Is there some way to force the DVR to get the data? It used to update fine. Any suggestions?
Thanks
Jim

hi
I'm in the Phoenix area and have the Sony HDD250.
A few months ago you folks helped me fix my machine (which had basically turned into a vcr with the digital change) by teaching me where to find the fix and how to apply it. Thanks. I'm hoping someone knows how to fix my latest problem. The TV Guide is working but a few weeks ago channel WB 61.1 stopped showing up. I can manually turn to it on the tv and the DVR but it is not updated with shows in the grid. I have tried to rescan. I have unplugged and plugged the machine back in. I've considered chanting and inscence and smacking the thing. Every other channel in the Phoenix area shows up in the grid but 61.1. Is there some way to force the DVR to get the data? It used to update fine. Any suggestions?
Thanks
Jim
I'm not getting 61.1 either. Or 7.2. I might try the 00000 zip code reset again. Have you tried that yet?

Every other channel in the Phoenix area shows up in the grid but 61.1.

Do you mean that it's disappeared completely from your channel grid, that is, it's not still there but filled with "No Listing" entries?

If yes, have you gone into the channel editor (TV Guide --> Setup --> Change Channel Display) and looked for it among the channels that are turned "Off"? Look for it both by its channel number (61-1) and its name (KASW or maybe something like KASW-DT or KASW-HD). Scroll down all the way through the full list of channels. It might be way down near the end of the list somewhere, tucked in among the cable channels.

If you find it, double-click on it and you'll get a menu that lets you turn it on. You might have to assign the correct channel number to it.

Do you mean that it's disappeared completely from your channel grid, that is, it's not still there but filled with "No Listing" entries?

If yes, have you gone into the channel editor (TV Guide --> Setup --> Change Channel Display) and looked for it among the channels that are turned "Off"? Look for it both by its channel number (61-1) and its name (KASW or maybe something like KASW-DT or KASW-HD). Scroll down all the way through the full list of channels. It might be way down near the end of the list somewhere, tucked in among the cable channels.

If you find it, double-click on it and you'll get a menu that lets you turn it on. You might have to assign the correct channel number to it.

Do what jtbell suggests, and that will fix it. I just helped someone out on spiffspace (http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=188.msg1224#msg1224) 2 days ago that had the exact same problem with 61.1.

Mark

Do you mean that it's disappeared completely from your channel grid, that is, it's not still there but filled with "No Listing" entries?

If yes, have you gone into the channel editor (TV Guide --> Setup --> Change Channel Display) and looked for it among the channels that are turned "Off"? Look for it both by its channel number (61-1) and its name (KASW or maybe something like KASW-DT or KASW-HD). Scroll down all the way through the full list of channels. It might be way down near the end of the list somewhere, tucked in among the cable channels.

If you find it, double-click on it and you'll get a menu that lets you turn it on. You might have to assign the correct channel number to it.
I've tried that, no go. I did find the cable listing for 61.1, however, the channel editor won't allow me to change it from cable to air, its grayed out. Is that something new with .21?

Also, saw this over in the PHX HD thread:
KAET 8.x Phoenix (Arizona State University) has dropped its 8.5 and 8.6 subchannels that had been broadcasting TV Guide On-Screen and Update TV services. http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/ind...topic=152020.0
Does this mean we're SOL?

Do you know how long the Sony Box will retain its' internal information with the power removed? Specifically, the Grid? Will it lose it's memory after being "unplugged" X number of hours?

Do you know how long the Sony Box will retain its' internal information with the power removed? Specifically, the Grid? Will it lose it's memory after being "unplugged" X number of hours?

Last summer, I wasn't using my DVR so I unplugged it in July for about a month. When I plugged it back in, it still had its grid from July... so at least a month.

Mark

Last summer, I wasn't using my DVR so I unplugged it in July for about a month. When I plugged it back in, it still had its grid from July... so at least a month.

Mark

Thanks Mark. I felt it would. I had recalled having my Sony unplugged for a day. Plugged it back it, and all was fine - but that was also about a year ago.

In a few days, I am going to do this again, for the "post transition" phase, combined with Houston's lack of "complete" TVGOS signal and see what happens.

Likewise I was gone for three weeks this past summer, on a trip to Europe. Before leaving, just a few days after the analog shutdown, I unplugged everything and disconnected my antenna. When I came back, I hooked everything up again, and my Sonys still had their channel grids, filled with "No Listing" of course. I pointed the antenna towards what was then the only (digital) TVGOS host station in reach, and the next morning I had a full eight days of listings.

For anyone who is interested, I have just recovered from a complete reset in a digital environment with the 1.2.13 firmware. You can follow the results here (http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080142/intro.htm).

Thanks for this Mark. For whatever reason, my 250 lost the latest TVGOS version and went back to 08.01.42 and I lost my grid and clock.

Using this method, I was able to get it back to 08.06.44, but I'm now waiting for the time zone packets. I thought I would get them back by this morning, but I forgot to set the channel back to 3.1 when I went to bed.

Hopefully, it'll be there when I get home from work. I wouldn't have been able to figure out to run the G* test to "bump" the DHG to start the digital flow.

ft

Hello,I was wondering if anyone has any info as to why the TVGOS data has stopped being transmitted as of 9/01/2009 in the Dothan,Alabama area(zip code 36303)It was working perfectly prior to this date.THis includes both my Sony dhg-hdd500 and my Sony Tv.i have contacted the local CBS engineer and ROVI and i am awaiting a reply.
Thanks

OK let me start at the beginning. I live south of Dayton Ohio and can get great OTA signal for Dayton and Cincy and i have had a HDD500 for years with no problems till the digital switchover. The first week in June i lost all guide data with the original f/w (i still had a guide just no listings). Now i bet everyone $100 that IF i would have simply loaded the latest f/w at that point and waited 24 hours i would been back to normal but NOOOOOOOOOO i had to do a full factory reset before getting online and doing some research. I also spoke with the head engineer for cbs channel 7 (dayton) who told me there having nothing but problems with the hardware and they really dont care too much about it and i tried to speak to cbs channel 12 (cincy) but he doesnt take calls from anyone. One thing i can tell myself is if i leave it on 12.1 cincy cbs i can get clock and ads within 24 hours but never a guide, with channel 7.1 dayton cbs i dont get clock or ads even if i let it sit for 7 days. This tells me that i should stick with trying to get a guide using cincy cbs 12.1 and quit wasting my time with dayton cbs 7.1. I spent the first 2 months trying every idea i could think of plus ideas posted here with no success at all and yes i even left it off for a week at a time. Then about 3 weeks ago i went and bought a brand new dtv pal+ analog/digital box because ppl said thats the easy fix. Still no guide...best i can do is clock and ads..i even tried a few different cincy zips and i also tried the temp zips the dtv pal box manual says to use......nada. I even tried to talk to sony but that was a waste of time. Needless to say i am now completely out of anymore ideas and i am about ready to smash it with a big sledge ;) I refuse to have to manual record all the upcoming primetime shows this fall and was hoping someone might have another idea for me to try before i put this box on ebay and get another directv hd dvr hr20-700.

thanks for reading my rant ;)

...Then about 3 weeks ago i went and bought a brand new dtv pal+ analog/digital box because ppl said thats the easy fix. Still no guide...best i can do is clock and ads..i even tried a few different cincy zips and i also tried the temp zips the dtv pal box manual says to use......
thanks for reading my rant ;)
you weren't specific about details of your try with the DTVPal...

were you using your real zip code in the Sony's setup?

did you go into the diagnostic menus and see if the Sony had latched on to the Pal output (analog 3 or 4, depending on what you set) as the host channel? (I just want to make sure the Sony was actually SEEING data from the Pal...)

If the Pal output WAS selected by the Sony as host channel, that would seem to indicate that the Pal was set up right, and then the question is whether the Sony was seeing the required B and C packets...if NOT, that would seem to suggest there is something wrong with the LEGACY data that the Pal gets from the digital broadcast, which would be perfectly consistent with there ALSO being something wrong with the MAIN digital TVGOS broadcast...

(If the Sony HASN'T selected the Pal output as the host channel, it may be that the Pal isn't set up right, but let's not go there now...or you could check what you did against my link for this, indicated below [where, however, it is connected to my LG 3410a, but everything else would be the same])

But first make sure your unit is actually seeing the Pal output as the host channel...(in MY test of the Pal with my Sony, the Sony latched onto the Pal output within HOURS...)

Tony

OK let me start at the beginning. I live south of Dayton Ohio and can get great OTA signal for Dayton and Cincy and i have had a HDD500 for years with no problems till the digital switchover. The first week in June i lost all guide data with the original f/w (i still had a guide just no listings). Now i bet everyone $100 that IF i would have simply loaded the latest f/w at that point and waited 24 hours i would been back to normal but NOOOOOOOOOO i had to do a full factory reset before getting online and doing some research. I also spoke with the head engineer for cbs channel 7 (dayton) who told me there having nothing but problems with the hardware and they really dont care too much about it and i tried to speak to cbs channel 12 (cincy) but he doesnt take calls from anyone. One thing i can tell myself is if i leave it on 12.1 cincy cbs i can get clock and ads within 24 hours but never a guide, with channel 7.1 dayton cbs i dont get clock or ads even if i let it sit for 7 days. This tells me that i should stick with trying to get a guide using cincy cbs 12.1 and quit wasting my time with dayton cbs 7.1. I spent the first 2 months trying every idea i could think of plus ideas posted here with no success at all and yes i even left it off for a week at a time. Then about 3 weeks ago i went and bought a brand new dtv pal+ analog/digital box because ppl said thats the easy fix. Still no guide...best i can do is clock and ads..i even tried a few different cincy zips and i also tried the temp zips the dtv pal box manual says to use......nada. I even tried to talk to sony but that was a waste of time. Needless to say i am now completely out of anymore ideas and i am about ready to smash it with a big sledge ;) I refuse to have to manual record all the upcoming primetime shows this fall and was hoping someone might have another idea for me to try before i put this box on ebay and get another directv hd dvr hr20-700.

thanks for reading my rant ;)
If you can not get any TVGOS with the Pal, assuming it is working properly, then it sounds like the other CBS is having equipment problems as well. I would Email/call Rovi about your problems and find someone at that CBS station who will listen...Maybe a news story for them??
Michael

OK let me start at the beginning. I live south of Dayton Ohio and can get great OTA signal for Dayton and Cincy and i have had a HDD500 for years with no problems till the digital switchover. The first week in June i lost all guide data with the original f/w (i still had a guide just no listings). Now i bet everyone $100 that IF i would have simply loaded the latest f/w at that point and waited 24 hours i would been back to normal but NOOOOOOOOOO i had to do a full factory reset before getting online and doing some research. I also spoke with the head engineer for cbs channel 7 (dayton) who told me there having nothing but problems with the hardware and they really dont care too much about it and i tried to speak to cbs channel 12 (cincy) but he doesnt take calls from anyone. One thing i can tell myself is if i leave it on 12.1 cincy cbs i can get clock and ads within 24 hours but never a guide, with channel 7.1 dayton cbs i dont get clock or ads even if i let it sit for 7 days. This tells me that i should stick with trying to get a guide using cincy cbs 12.1 and quit wasting my time with dayton cbs 7.1. I spent the first 2 months trying every idea i could think of plus ideas posted here with no success at all and yes i even left it off for a week at a time. Then about 3 weeks ago i went and bought a brand new dtv pal+ analog/digital box because ppl said thats the easy fix. Still no guide...best i can do is clock and ads..i even tried a few different cincy zips and i also tried the temp zips the dtv pal box manual says to use......nada. I even tried to talk to sony but that was a waste of time. Needless to say i am now completely out of anymore ideas and i am about ready to smash it with a big sledge ;) I refuse to have to manual record all the upcoming primetime shows this fall and was hoping someone might have another idea for me to try before i put this box on ebay and get another directv hd dvr hr20-700.

thanks for reading my rant ;)

The guide data is confirmed on both stations.
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos
If Dayton or Cincinnati is out of you market, they you need to use a zip from that city to get the guide data from that city's station.

What firmware are you on?
To download the latest:
http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-download.pl?upd_id=4542&mdl=DHGHDD250

The guide data is confirmed on both stations.
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos
If Dayton or Cincinnati is out of you market, they you need to use a zip from that city to get the guide data from that city's station.

What firmware are you on?
To download the latest:
http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-download.pl?upd_id=4542&mdl=DHGHDD250

Just because the site says that the station has the guide data, does not mean that the station is passing it properly at this time. Need to fuss with the station till they either get it right or can prove to you it is working properly. With the Pal, it should be fairly obvious if it is set up correctly. The problems with TVGOS are almost always 99%+ due to TVGOS alone and the associated chain in which it gets to the end user.
Michael

Is anyone here using cable cards with Cox cable (anyone in Phoenix)? How are they working out? How are the channels listed, normally, 704, 705, 706, etc, or are they listed like QAM channels, 0.704, 0.705, etc?

Thanks

you weren't specific about details of your try with the DTVPal...

*Well i have my antenna feed split..1 going straight to sony ant input...other going to input of dtvpal then rf out of pal to cable input of sony. Then set up sony for both ota and cable with analog channel 3 scanned in.

were you using your real zip code in the Sony's setup?

*I tried all combos...from both using real zips to both using the substitute zip (per dtvpal+ manual). even tried sub zip with dtvpal and real with sony..right now i am using real zip with both and yes i have tried 3 different ones. i am using 45203 right now which worked fine till the digital switch.

did you go into the diagnostic menus and see if the Sony had latched on to the Pal output (analog 3 or 4, depending on what you set) as the host channel? (I just want to make sure the Sony was actually SEEING data from the Pal...)

*Yes the sony has 1:0-3 as host channel

If the Pal output WAS selected by the Sony as host channel, that would seem to indicate that the Pal was set up right, and then the question is whether the Sony was seeing the required B and C packets...if NOT, that would seem to suggest there is something wrong with the LEGACY data that the Pal gets from the digital broadcast, which would be perfectly consistent with there ALSO being something wrong with the MAIN digital TVGOS broadcast...

*yes it sees both B and C packets...no A packets though

(If the Sony HASN'T selected the Pal output as the host channel, it may be that the Pal isn't set up right, but let's not go there now...or you could check what you did against my link for this, indicated below [where, however, it is connected to my LG 3410a, but everything else would be the same])

But first make sure your unit is actually seeing the Pal output as the host channel...(in MY test of the Pal with my Sony, the Sony latched onto the Pal output within HOURS...)

Tony

I redid from scatch last night again after doing a guide reset using real cincy zip of 45203 on both sony and dtvpal. Got both clock and ads within hours. Woke up this morning and it had found host channel from dtvpal but still no guide :(

The guide data is confirmed on both stations.
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos
If Dayton or Cincinnati is out of you market, they you need to use a zip from that city to get the guide data from that city's station.

What firmware are you on?
To download the latest:
http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-download.pl?upd_id=4542&mdl=DHGHDD250

Just cause that site says everything is OK dont mean it really is. I talked to the head engineer at dayton cbs channel 7 on phone many times and even in person and he told me they have had nothing but problems with the h/w and it has never been working 100% for more then 2 weeks at a time. This last time he told me it would be 2 weeks before it would be back up and working again and when they did get it up and running it was down again within 20 hours and still down today. i cant even get clock let alone ads in a weeks time.

i have the latest f/w installed (.21) factory is 05 on my box

Hi. New here. I am in the SF bay area. I am a bit of a noob with this dvr. I just got the 250 and have comcast hooked up to it. I did all the setup and get listings. What I don't get are the hd versions of channels, like 5.1 or 7.1, which I do get on my tv with the cable plugged straight into that. I do see them listed on the channel editor page, but all are off. I turn them on, but no signal. Does anyone have any idea how I can get these? Any and all help is much appreciated. The host channel I get here is 5.

Hi. New here. I am in the SF bay area. I am a bit of a noob with this dvr. I just got the 250 and have comcast hooked up to it. I did all the setup and get listings. What I don't get are the hd versions of channels, like 5.1 or 7.1, which I do get on my tv with the cable plugged straight into that. I do see them listed on the channel editor page, but all are off. I turn them on, but no signal. Does anyone have any idea how I can get these? Any and all help is much appreciated. The host channel I get here is 5.

They should load after a while. Until then edit the channel numbers of the regular versions to the HD channel numbers.

I redid from scatch last night again after doing a guide reset using real cincy zip of 45203 on both sony and dtvpal. Got both clock and ads within hours. Woke up this morning and it had found host channel from dtvpal but still no guide :(

Try a Dayton zip code like 45401 to get get guide from WHIO 7.1. I doubt that both the Cincinnati and Dayton stations would have trouble at the same time.

I redid from scatch last night again after doing a guide reset using real cincy zip of 45203 on both sony and dtvpal. Got both clock and ads within hours. Woke up this morning and it had found host channel from dtvpal but still no guide :(
I'd be curious to know whether you have anything by now, or certainly by tomorrow...what about a grid and channel lineup?

The fact that it has the Pal output as host channel suggests the Pal is working...but if you're getting the same non-result as from the main digital TVGOS station, I'd say there's a good chance there's something messed up with ALL the local's broadcast streams, i.e., both the main digital TVGOS stream AND the legacy stream...

After 28 days without a single problem, I knew something would happen. It must be the full moon. My front panel time display was slow one minute exactly. I have two units a foot apart vertically. This morning one of them was a minute slow. I hit the guide button on the remote and it displayed the correct time. The 9012 and 753... both indicated correct time. After turning off (standby) and back on it was still off one minute. Crazy or what? So I pulled the plug for 30 minutes. When I plugged it back in, the clock started as ---- but then went to the correct time in about 15 seconds. Now, I know I've seen postings about the clock being off before, but you can't search for ONE on the forum. Nice search engine. Anyhow, have a safe holiday.

Try a Dayton zip code like 45401 to get get guide from WHIO 7.1. I doubt that both the Cincinnati and Dayton stations would have trouble at the same time.

Over the last 3 months i have tried many different dayton zipcodes and tried getting channel 7.1 to be my host with no luck. I have tried 45420/45429/45459/45401....nada.
There engineers main focus has been installing there new digital antenna on top of the tower. The one they have been using since 2001 was only 1/2 way up the tower. (that one is now there back up) He also told me they have replaced the tvgos h/w 3 times already and it keeps going bad within days. I could not get 1 packet flowing with 7.1 hence why i have been trying with cincy cbs channel 12.1. At least with 12.1 i get clock and ads just no host channel.

jtbell
thanks for the advice
the 61.1 now shows up on the grid
it is just in half hour segments that say "no listing" but at least I can see it now
I'm hoping it starts to update in the days ahead
thanks again
jim

the 61.1 now shows up on the grid
it is just in half hour segments that say "no listing" but at least I can see it now


Great! The listings should fill in by tomorrow morning. If you leave the DVR off this afternoon, you might even have listings by tonight.

Great! The listings should fill in by tomorrow morning. If you leave the DVR off this afternoon, you might even have listings by tonight.
I'm still not getting listings for this either. I've done everything you said to do.

The funny thing is I can see listings for the cable 61.1, but I don't get cable, and I can't change the setup menu so that the cable 61.1 tunes to the OTA 61.1, that option is grayed out. I thought you used to be able to change it.

to jwpottberg:
The exact thing happened to me a few months ago. Recording was simply incompatible with everything else! I followed these instructions
---http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html#Section32
which didn't lose any of my recordings, but did take me through a TVGOS reset. This means you'll have to wait an unknown amount of time to get your grid and listings back! Less than a day for me, but others haven't been so lucky.
Thanks for the tip, I did try this, but still had the same problem. Every time I try to watch a previously recorded program while it is recording another one (red light on) it eventually hangs up and/or reboots. :( I tried more and more drastic steps and have reset this sucker back to the stone age (including reformatting the disk). No help :mad: The ironic thing is the guide population works better than ever now that it locks onto CBS 5 (KPIX) analog cable as a host. Still have a nagging feeling this might have something to do with it.

Does anybody else in SF bay area have cable analog 5 ("1:0-5") as their host channel and do you have any problems in this area? I'm thinking maybe it needs a trip to Dr. Sony :confused:

Jim

Just curious if anyone in the Ruskin, FL or Tampa, FL area has a hdd500 or hdd250 and have been receiving the TVGOS from WTSP-10 in Tampa. I was in the Orlando area and getting the TVGOS from Orlando CBS station. Now that I'll be in Ruskin I hope WTSP is transmitting the TVGOS.

Just curious if anyone in the Ruskin, FL or Tampa, FL area has a hdd500 or hdd250 and have been receiving the TVGOS from WTSP-10 in Tampa. I was in the Orlando area and getting the TVGOS from Orlando CBS station. Now that I'll be in Ruskin I hope WTSP is transmitting the TVGOS.

Yes, I'm in Tampa, I have an HDD250 and it's getting the TVGOS data from WTSP channel 10.1. I'm using it for OTA only and have two antennas, one pointing at Riverview the other at Holiday.

Thanks for the info on WTSP. I have two 250's and will be OTA as well when I get to Florida. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for the 250 to obtain the clock, grid and listings after I enter the new zip code of 33573.

Hi I had a similar problem with my DHG-HDD500 a couple of weeks ago where my box reported a hard drive error. I tired to reformat the drive by going into the 9012 menu multiple times and the box could not recover from the error. I then took the hard drives out and downloaded Western Digital's Data Lifeguard diagnostic tools CD and ran the both the short and long diagnostic checks on both drives. Both were reporting no error using the tools. Now hear is the kicker...After I placed the drives back in my DHG-HDD500, the box didn't report an error anymore either....I restored factory defaults on my unit and went though the whole setup process again. It did at this point report that it had recovered from an hard drive error (Note I had tried this also before and was unable to recover from the error) and its running fine...It seems the Sony may be messing around with some special diagnostic logs stored on the hard drive...

van_hd_dude,

What version of WD's Lifegaurd tools did you use?

I'm about a 3 weeks post TVGOS reset/digital recovery via cablecard FIOS. Everything working well except I cannot seem to select FIOS as my listings provider and it defaults to Comcast. I've tried 3 zipcodes in the DC/metro area. My only option is to reorder channel numbers for those that exist in both Comcast/FIOS lineups. I'm out of luck for anything that FIOS provides over Comcast.

Interestingly I just checked out this link

http://digitaltransition.macrovision.com/digtrans.aspx

and found...

Name Verizon FIOS TV of Silver Spg/Wa Metro - Silver Springs
Status Known problem
Description Your Cable provider will not support TV Guide/Guide Plus+ listings data after the digital transition. Please contact your cable provider for more information.

while Comcast:
Name Comcast - Loudoun County - Sterling Cable Ready
Status Known to be working
Description We have confirmed with your cable provider that you should receive TV Guide/Guide Plus+ listings after the digital transition. If you are not receiving listings or if your listings discontinue, please contact your cable provider for more information.

Anyone in the country using FIOS/cablecard and getting listings?

In the Atlanta Market, I have listings till Thursday and that is it. Have not had any updates since last Thursday. No new ads or listings.
Anyone else? Have anyone contacted WGCL on this?
Michael

UPDATE:
Saw that Metalav8b had gotten this today over on the OTA thread:
TVGOS Disabled


I got a response back from Steve at CBS. We'll have to be patient in the Atlanta area while TV Guide resolves a conflict with Apex converter boxes...

"We have disabled TVGOS AGAIN due to another problem. This time we discovered the feed was disrupting our signal on APEX converter boxes. These are the ones sold at Best Buy.

The folks at TV Guide are working on it. Until they correct we will not air the signal.


Steve

Steve Flanagan
(404) 327-3162 Office"

In the Atlanta Market, I have listings till Thursday and that is it. Have not had any updates since last Thursday. No new ads or listings.
Anyone else? Have anyone contacted WGCL on this?
Michael

UPDATE:
Saw that Metalav8b had gotten this today over on the OTA thread:
TVGOS Disabled


I got a response back from Steve at CBS. We'll have to be patient in the Atlanta area while TV Guide resolves a conflict with Apex converter boxes...

"We have disabled TVGOS AGAIN due to another problem. This time we discovered the feed was disrupting our signal on APEX converter boxes. These are the ones sold at Best Buy.

The folks at TV Guide are working on it. Until they correct we will not air the signal.


Steve

Steve Flanagan
(404) 327-3162 Office"

UM? I have an Apex converter box from BB. It is on the same antenna system as my Sony Box in a different room. There is no interference with the Apex here? TVGOS is sent out via CBS RF 11 here, and prior to June 12, it was sent out on RF 8, 11, and 26 here (at the same time) - I have used the Apex for about 9 months now.

Of course each market is different - so anything is possible.

Success! I received full grid and some listings on Sunday evening (9/6). I received full 8 days of fresh listings on Monday (9/7). I didn't do anything, as far as any kind of converter box intervention. As I stated previously, I performed full factory reset and upgrade to 1.2.21 version software on or around 8/28/09. So, it took almost 2 weeks from full factory reset and Sony .21 software to get back to normal. I check service screens and I have, for the first time since before digital transition, a digital host channel set to 11-0. I did write a short email on Houston's local CBS KHOU channel 11's website. I just stated the problem of not receiving TVGOS, host channel grid and listings. I didn't receive a reply, so I don't know if they did anything. So, I did end up just taking the advise of most on this site and just left DVR alone until it rebuilt grid. I don't know how long it will last. If we have another power surge or outage, it might blow away grid and listings. We'll just have to wait and see. I'll let you know if anything happens.

UM? I have an Apex converter box from BB. It is on the same antenna system as my Sony Box in a different room. There is no interference with the Apex here? TVGOS is sent out via CBS RF 11 here, and prior to June 12, it was sent out on RF 8, 11, and 26 here (at the same time) - I have used the Apex for about 9 months now.

Of course each market is different - so anything is possible.

Maybe only a 100% working TVGOS signal interferes with the Apex box?

Edit: Nevermind, ignore my comment above........... I just read leoman's post above and apprently Houston's TVGOS is again 100% operational. It appears that "leaving the unit alone" actually works. Even in Houston.

That's why I wanted all to know about the success I had as I've not read one post from anyone here in Houston that have been successful in full factory reset to Sony upgrade 1.2.21 (without third party peripheral device intervention). It's possible that I may have missed some posts from other people here in Houston that have been successful. I was really looking for solid information from folks here as it wouldn't suprise me if other people in other markets are having technical difficulites with their host stations. And, I don't think it's fully resolved here either. I hope it is, but we'll see. I don't want to reset my sister's machine until I've had mine working without interruption for at least a month. Oh, I should've mention previously, I'm strickly over the air (OTA) with my Sony DHG HDD500 DVR. I would love to hear from others here in Houston that have been successful. Thanks to everyone's input on this forum. I've learned alot about this little jewel of a machine. I especially want to thank spiffspace for his website and forum. I wouldn't have found this one had it not been for him. Does anyone know of another digital HD DVR for sale on the current market that has two tuners and utilizes TVGOS? Something tells me the satelite and cable industry has an unfair stranglehold on the manufacturing of such devices.

Great job Leo, on getting HostChannel set on yours. AFAIK, yours is the only one in Houston that has actually "set". There are about 5 others I know of that have not set, and a two people have sold their units, just gave up on them.

Since mine has run two complete 4 weeks sessions untouched and not set; and also all data is "otherwise" coming into the box at a fast rate...........I have often speculated that; distribution amps, line taps, substandard and poorly routed RG-59, and splitters could be an issue here. It is hard to say without a combination of time and money; both of which are in short supply. It's not that pressing if we move.

Might try just a rabbit ear on the Sony Box as a test to see if you would "set". Only problem with that is 30 plus miles out, extreme low elevation, and the unit is on the first floor.

Hi,
I have been reading many posts on this thread to see how I can get my channel lineup back. I borrowed a GE digital TV tuner so I can get channel 5.1 on analog channel, since I read that this is the only way to get the initial channel lineup. Even though I receive VBI data on digital channel 5.1, however when I send that through the GE box to an analog channel, I do NOT get any VBI data, so the VBI Test fails.

I have a Sony DHG-HDD250 and everything worked before June switch. Now I get Ads but since I don't have any channel line up anymore I don't get any programming.

Is there any other way to get the initial channel lineup.
Any help is highly appreciated.
Thanks,
Pepe

Only the Dish DTVPals and the Artecs can do this, among all the converter boxes out there. They were designed specifially to convert the "legacy" data stream in the TVGOS signal to analog format. The other converter boxes were not so designed.

Since mine has run two complete 4 weeks sessions untouched . . . . .

Sorry...... But unless your wife had you chained to a tree outside your Sony could never go 4 days untouched, much less 4 weeks.... :D:D:D

I tried to get WGCL to turn the equipment on just from midnight to six, but was told it is causing a loss of signal on certian convertor boxes. Even asked if they could just pass it along the cable since it does not require a convertor box, but do not think that is going to happen either. So no date yet as to when it will be back up.
Michael

Does anyone know of another digital HD DVR for sale on the current market that has two tuners and utilizes TVGOS? Something tells me the satelite and cable industry has an unfair stranglehold on the manufacturing of such devices.

DTVPal DVR fits the bill of this product you describe. Has dual ATSC tuners (OTA only).

DTVPal DVR fits the bill of this product you describe. Has dual ATSC tuners (OTA only).Beware, however, that the DTVPal DVR's TVGOS guide is effectively TVGOS-lite. The user interface is more stripped down, more difficult to customize, and generally nowhere near as spiffy as the Sony's. Also, in any given market, not all the stations' provided by TVGOS in that area have their listings captured and displayed; for example in Philadelphia, listings are provided for CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, My, and CW network affiliates, but not for PBS or ION network affiliates. On the plus side, unlike the Sony, where TVGOS listings are not provided by TVGOS (or not displayed as noted), PSIP based listings are substituted seamlessly (but they typically only go out one day or less, and often contain very little to no program info.) The price is right, but the case is light plastic (and shaped so that you can't sit anything on top of it), and the firmware can be spastic (locking up more often than the Sony.) Sadly, Chinese engineering is light-years behind Japanese engineering.

To get my channel lineup I followed the instruction listed here:
http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu...&mdl=DHGHDD250
to upgrade 1.2.21 . The upgrade went well. However, now when I run the VBI test it fails and no VBI bits seems to be coming down the CBS channel.

Is this normal? Or did I make it worst?

To get my channel lineup I followed the instruction listed here:
http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu...&mdl=DHGHDD250
to upgrade 1.2.21 . The upgrade went well. However, now when I run the VBI test it fails and no VBI bits seems to be coming down the CBS channel.

Is this normal? Or did I make it worst?There never were "VBI Packets" arriving from a digital station; that they showed up at all in the G* test screen was a bit of a stretch. In 1.2.21 they fixed that. You now look for "ATSC packet" counts increasing on the ATSC Slicer screen, the 4th (going downward) of the 753159852 diagnostic screens. Even with the older firmware, that screen was there (with much less information) and showed incrementing counts that matched those in the G* test. The counts on the G* test screen apply to analog (i.e.: true) VBI packets only now.

In a nutshell: it's normal!

Beware, however, that the DTVPal DVR's TVGOS guide is effectively TVGOS-lite. The user interface is more stripped down, more difficult to customize, and generally nowhere near as spiffy as the Sony's. Also, in any given market, not all the stations' provided by TVGOS in that area have their listings captured and displayed; for example in Philadelphia, listings are provided for CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, My, and CW network affiliates, but not for PBS or ION network affiliates. On the plus side, unlike the Sony, where TVGOS listings are not provided by TVGOS (or not displayed as noted), PSIP based listings are substituted seamlessly (but they typically only go out one day or less, and often contain very little to no program info.) The price is right, but the case is light plastic (and shaped so that you can't sit anything on top of it), and the firmware can be spastic (locking up more often than the Sony.) Sadly, Chinese engineering is light-years behind Japanese engineering.
I agree with you on this, that the Pal dvr has had a host of problems which the Sonys never had. More hardware related issues, but for the price, what can you expect? The major drawbacks of the Sonys are the single tuners, and no expansion of the drives. Other features that would have been nice to have were dicussed in pass post and are quite moot at this point since we in the US can no longer get a good quality dvr like this anymore. Other than that I will keep and use my two for as long as they last.
Michael

I tried to get WGCL to turn the equipment on just from midnight to six, but was told it is causing a loss of signal on certian convertor boxes. Even asked if they could just pass it along the cable since it does not require a convertor box, but do not think that is going to happen either. So no date yet as to when it will be back up.
Michael

That's very disappointing, and I suppose demonstrates how small of a user base for TVGOS there must be, even smaller than the folks using a converter box with analog TVs. I'm in Athens and also noticed yesterday that the listings have almost run out. As far as I can recall it was getting them from the analog version of WGCL on Charter cable. To add insult to injury, the DVR has also lost the correct time, so is now more than an hour off, so even manual recordings will be tedious to set up. Oh well, I am grateful for the years it worked, and even after the digital transition, so may be time to move on now and sell the unit to someone in an area where the service is still active.

That's very disappointing, and I suppose demonstrates how small of a user base for TVGOS there must be, even smaller than the folks using a converter box with analog TVs. I'm in Athens and also noticed yesterday that the listings have almost run out. As far as I can recall it was getting them from the analog version of WGCL on Charter cable. To add insult to injury, the DVR has also lost the correct time, so is now more than an hour off, so even manual recordings will be tedious to set up. Oh well, I am grateful for the years it worked, and even after the digital transition, so may be time to move on now and sell the unit to someone in an area where the service is still active.
Hate to hear that your time is off. So far my two still have the correct time. Will have to check to see if my girlfriends two unit on Comcast cable still has the correct time. I beleive that Steve at 46 will try to get this thing pushed along and fixed. He just has to deal with ROVI. We should Email them as well and stay on their case till it is up and working again properly.
Do not understand as to why time could not be manually set on these units as well as an option for a "hard" schedule, one that would not change regardless of the TVGOS updates. I guess those engineers never have actual experience in using what they design in the real world.
Michael

I agree with you on this, that the Pal dvr has had a host of problems which the Sonys never had. More hardware related issues, but for the price, what can you expect? The major drawbacks of the Sonys are the single tuners, and no expansion of the drives. Other features that would have been nice to have were dicussed in pass post and are quite moot at this point since we in the US can no longer get a good quality dvr like this anymore. Other than that I will keep and use my two for as long as they last.
Michael

There are rumors that the DTVPal DVR is being discontinued (listed that way on SolidSignal.com). Short lived production similar to the Sony. I agree the Sony is a remarkable DVR and one of the best electronics purchases I have ever made. There really isn't anything other substitute device on the market. Other than the sometimes finicky TVGOS, the Sony is easy and fun to use. I recently purchased a Moxi HD DVR and moved the Sony to the bedroom. Although the dual tuners and networked capabilities of the Moxi are nice, it still lacks some of the simple features I have grown accustomed to using the Sony.

That's very disappointing, and I suppose demonstrates how small of a user base for TVGOS there must be, even smaller than the folks using a converter box with analog TVs. I'm in Athens and also noticed yesterday that the listings have almost run out. As far as I can recall it was getting them from the analog version of WGCL on Charter cable. To add insult to injury, the DVR has also lost the correct time, so is now more than an hour off, so even manual recordings will be tedious to set up. Oh well, I am grateful for the years it worked, and even after the digital transition, so may be time to move on now and sell the unit to someone in an area where the service is still active.

Is your clock an hour off exactly? Ahead of behind? Just trying to see if it has anything to do with DST.
There is probably more TVGOS folks than we know who may have and actually use it. It just that many people are either too busy to search out a forum like this, much less inclined to use it, or just give up if they can not get answers from their equipment manufacturers.
Michael

That's very disappointing, and I suppose demonstrates how small of a user base for TVGOS there must be, even smaller than the folks using a converter box with analog TVs. I'm in Athens and also noticed yesterday that the listings have almost run out. As far as I can recall it was getting them from the analog version of WGCL on Charter cable. To add insult to injury, the DVR has also lost the correct time, so is now more than an hour off, so even manual recordings will be tedious to set up. Oh well, I am grateful for the years it worked, and even after the digital transition, so may be time to move on now and sell the unit to someone in an area where the service is still active.

Charter converts the OTA digital TVGOS to analog. So you will have to wait for WGCL to fix the problem with their digital TVGOS for your analog to start working again.

Is your clock an hour off exactly? Ahead of behind? Just trying to see if it has anything to do with DST.
l

No, it's not a DST error - it's reading 4:49 PM right now, at 6:04 PM. I need to tell more of the story, though. When I came home Tuesday night it was giving me a "no signal" on all of the digital channels that are received through the cable card. After trying to have cable company fix it by resetting the cable card by remote etc, I finally gave it a brutal power down, as in pulling the plug. Once it rebooted it had no time displayed, then I turned it on and the digital channels were restored, along with the incorrect time it had latched on to.

I'll keep hoping that WGCL turns the guide back on, and guess it's time to start watching the backlog of movies and shows in the event that I have to rent a DVR from Charter (ouch!, that would hurt) or get a Tivo (still a little painful).

I sent Rovi a request to get the TVGOS system back working here in Atlanta. Barring full updates at least send the time set updates for now.
Also set a request to Sony to provide a fix to be able to set our clocks manually. If they could/would not be able to do so, then give us the code so someone could do it for them and provide it to all.
I urge all to contact both and push them in to action. The more they hear from us, the better our chances to get something done.
Michael

I'm having the same problems in Atlanta. My unit lost the program listings about a week and a half ago. I did a factory reset and reloaded the 1.2.21 firmware, but then I had no clock. After a week, I still have no clock.

I tried hooking the Dish Network feed of CBS 46 into the cable jack, hoping it was a signal problem, and it didn't help. Based on your message it's clear that there was a problem at WGCL.

I, too, sent a message to WGCL tonight and ROVI last night. No response from either yet. It is reassuring that I'm not alone.

I hope I don't own a doorstop now. The clock is off by 2:08, and manual recordings never start (must be some flag in the Sony that says "don't record if you ain't got a valid time.") Frustrating.

I'm having the same problems in Atlanta.

I, too, sent a message to WGCL tonight and ROVI last night. No response from either yet. It is reassuring that I'm not alone.

I hope I don't own a doorstop now. The clock is off by 2:08, and manual recordings never start (must be some flag in the Sony that says "don't record if you ain't got a valid time.") Frustrating.

I have also sent email messages to Rovi & WGCL to inquire about the problem. If nothing else, it sure is good to have this forum so that I know it is a shared problem, otherwise I would be going nuts trying to fix the problem. Yes, if only there were a clock setting trick then it wouldn't be as much of a boat anchor in the absence of the clock signal. I suppose somewhere out there is an analog VBI inserter device for clock signals (maybe surplus equipment from a TV station after conversion to all digital?).

In addition to the OTA antenna, I have a Dish Network satellite feed.

Does anyone know if there are any Dish Network channels that provide the TVGOS data? If even the programming was inaccurate, at least I could get the clock working by feeding my Dish signal into the cable jack on the Sony.

There never were "VBI Packets" arriving from a digital station; that they showed up at all in the G* test screen was a bit of a stretch. In 1.2.21 they fixed that. You now look for "ATSC packet" counts increasing on the ATSC Slicer screen, the 4th (going downward) of the 753159852 diagnostic screens. Even with the older firmware, that screen was there (with much less information) and showed incrementing counts that matched those in the G* test. The counts on the G* test screen apply to analog (i.e.: true) VBI packets only now.

In a nutshell: it's normal!

Thank you Frank70 for the clarification. I was hoping to get the channel lineup after couple of days, now that I have done the upgrade to 1.2.21.
Still no success, I get Ads but nothing more. I changed the zip code to many other choices to see if that makes a difference, nothing!
Channel 5.1 here in San Francisco sends the TV guide data, I have tried to force the VBI channel to 5.1, even that didn't make a difference.

Is there any other step I need to take to get the channel lineup?

Thanks in advance.

Hi,
I have been reading many posts on this thread to see how I can get my channel lineup back. I borrowed a GE digital TV tuner so I can get channel 5.1 on analog channel, since I read that this is the only way to get the initial channel lineup. Even though I receive VBI data on digital channel 5.1, however when I send that through the GE box to an analog channel, I do NOT get any VBI data, so the VBI Test fails.

I have a Sony DHG-HDD250 and everything worked before June switch. Now I get Ads but since I don't have any channel line up anymore I don't get any programming.

Is there any other way to get the initial channel lineup.
Any help is highly appreciated.
Thanks,
Pepe
I'd say the ultimate way is to try what you were TRYING to do above, except to use the DTVPal, which DOES convert the legacy data that 5.1 sends and inserts it into the vbi of the analog version of 5 that it outputs...

I tried this with my Sony, just out of curiosity, and it latched onto the channel 3 Pal output within hours and overnight gave me a 4-day set of listings, and shortly changed the whole download schedule from a combination analog and digital schedule to a purely analog schedule...

(I must add that I was already getting program listings digitally when I tried this, although - since 6/12 - I have had a blank host channel in the diagnostic menu...except when I feed the Pal output to the Sony, when - as I say - it almost immediately showed 3 as the host channel...)

Tony

To get my channel lineup I followed the instruction listed here:
http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu...&mdl=DHGHDD250
to upgrade 1.2.21 . The upgrade went well. However, now when I run the VBI test it fails and no VBI bits seems to be coming down the CBS channel.

Is this normal? Or did I make it worst?

ciaopepe,
In the G test, as soon as the five tests pass or fail, push the 2 button on your remote and it will run the VBI test again and it will probably pass. This is what happens on my version 8 RCA DLP. Pushing the 3 button will rerun the ATSC test.

Also, if there is only about 4 packets per second coming in then your guide is decoding the mpeg legacy stream which is a digitized copy of the original TVG2X: TV Guide 2x VBI waveform.
TVG1 should be about 30 packets per second and only runs between 12:51 AM and 5:26 PM. This is what my version 9 pioneer shows.

I have two 250’s and both worked without any problems until the analog shut down last February. When the .21 update came available, I updated both units without any problems. About a month and a half ago, the local SCETV started transmitting the digital guide. One unit lock in right away with time and guide but the other ones time won’t sync in. I have read many if not all of the post here and tried many of them. Resets, power fail, guide restore and even factory restore, then reloading .21 update. The clock still has its on mind. I have a Sony contract on this unit and I send it back to them for repairs. I wasn’t sure the guy understood my problem since I believe he was in India, so I wrote my problem and taped it to the unit. I shipped it as instructed to Mt. Pleasant, Pa but somehow it ended up in Texas. I did get a call from a tech wanting to know my problem and I told him the clock would not sync. I receive the unit back with a note they have update it to .21, which was already done. Also have big ugly scratch about the display that wasn’t there before. I still can’t get the clock to sync. Both of these units are OTA. I have DirecTV and no cable. I have tried so many things I would take a lot of writing to post time here but if you know something that might solve this problem, I sure would thank you for you suggestion and any questions you might need to know. I compared the 753159852 screen between units and can’t pickup on anything that might be the problem.

ciaopepe,
In the G test, as soon as the five tests pass or fail, push the 2 button on your remote and it will run the VBI test again and it will probably pass. This is what happens on my version 8 RCA DLP. Pushing the 3 button will rerun the ATSC test.

Also, if there is only about 4 packets per second coming in then your guide is decoding the mpeg legacy stream which is a digitized copy of the original TVG2X: TV Guide 2x VBI waveform.
TVG1 should be about 30 packets per second and only runs between 12:51 AM and 5:26 PM. This is what my version 9 pioneer shows.

Thank you for your help. I did your suggestions, however I am not getting any data. I used to get some and the VBI test used to pass, now it fails every time, since I have done the .21 upgrade.

I still am not getting the basic channel lineup. I think that is the problem. I don't understand how Sony can create a upgrade for digial channels and nothing works since I made this upgrade. This is quite frustrating :-(

I'd say the ultimate way is to try what you were TRYING to do above, except to use the DTVPal, which DOES convert the legacy data that 5.1 sends and inserts it into the vbi of the analog version of 5 that it outputs...


So the only way to get the channel lineup is to get Dish DTVPals or the Artecs ?
If this the case where I can buy one or maybe borrow one in the San Francisco bay area?

Thanks,
Pepe

Well, I guess it was too good to be true. When the changeover to digital happen Charter cable in St Louis began to pass the digital CBS to analog channel 94. Last week sometime they stopped transmitting channel 94 effectively cutting off the tv guide.

Of course calling Charter support is akin to pulling my molars with a rusty pliers. To get to someone that is knowledgeable is impossible.

I have called the local cbs station of help but I'm not sure that will do anything.

HDAddiction

As many know, the Atlanta area is still without listing updates and such. My girlfriends unit in the kitchen with cable card went blank--no signal on any station. Popping out the card only gave her a few of the analog channels, but none of the digital. Others who have had similar problems said after they pulled the plug for a hard reset, the clock came back over an hour off.
I did a soft reset and that restored her channels. Her clock is only 2 minutes (within a second) behind. Which is great, since now at least she can set all manual recordings.
Hope this helps and works for others.
Michael
PS: Still no reply from Rovi on the problem. Think I will bug WGCL and Rovi again today.

I have also sent email messages to Rovi & WGCL to inquire about the problem. If nothing else, it sure is good to have this forum so that I know it is a shared problem, otherwise I would be going nuts trying to fix the problem. Yes, if only there were a clock setting trick then it wouldn't be as much of a boat anchor in the absence of the clock signal. I suppose somewhere out there is an analog VBI inserter device for clock signals (maybe surplus equipment from a TV station after conversion to all digital?).
Good idea, think I will start looking into that. Since these units will take analog, that may just work.
Michael