Good idea, think I will start looking into that. Since these units will take analog, that may just work.
Michael

AtlantisMichael,
Don't bother looking. The analog inserters are being sent to cable companies who don't have the capabilities to convert the legacy stream or don't have access to a digital inserter. My cable company just installed one.

This is being currently discussed over in the TVGOS Devices Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1122914

Of course calling Charter support is akin to pulling my molars with a rusty pliers. To get to someone that is knowledgeable is impossible.


HDAddiction

Love that analogy!! A few years ago I tried calling Charter when the guide was out, and quickly learned that was a dead end, at least as far as TVGOS is concerned. I was even so foolish as to attempt to explain that the VBI was absent from the station transmitting it. Ultimately it was a cable problem, where they were stripping out the VBI (and huge thanks to AtlantisMichael for solving it), but sure is funny (and sad) to think what little technical support staff can understand or do.

So the only way to get the channel lineup is to get Dish DTVPals or the Artecs ?
If this the case where I can buy one or maybe borrow one in the San Francisco bay area?

Thanks,
Pepe
A week ago, I would have lent you mine, but now I've finally started getting listings for my LG3410a from the Pal output...

you might state where you are located (or put it into your info, as seen on mine) on this thread AND the DTVPal thread, and maybe the LG3410a thread, to see if there's anybody near you who would lend you the Pal for 2 or 3 days...

if you're close by, I might even consider doing it, because I think your unit would pick up channel 3 as the host channel virtually immediately, then get the grid and channel lineup within 24 hours (or at most 2 days)...but right now I'm just watching to see if my grid fills and if there are any lockup problems, such as people on the 3410a thread have previously mentioned....

ciao - Tony

A week ago, I would have lent you mine, but now I've finally started getting listings for my LG3410a from the Pal output...

you might state where you are located (or put it into your info, as seen on mine) on this thread AND the DTVPal thread, and maybe the LG3410a thread, to see if there's anybody near you who would lend you the Pal for 2 or 3 days...

if you're close by, I might even consider doing it, because I think your unit would pick up channel 3 as the host channel virtually immediately, then get the grid and channel lineup within 24 hours (or at most 2 days)...but right now I'm just watching to see if my grid fills and if there are any lockup problems, such as people on the 3410a thread have previously mentioned....

ciao - Tony

Thank you Tony for the suggestion. I have added my location, I'm in San Francisco, not far from you.

I will post to other threads as well.

I apprecaite if you or anyone else can let me borrow a DTVPal for few days.

Thanks again, there might be hope after all :-)

Hi,

I have a Sony DHG-HDD250 and since the digital switch over I cannot get my TVGuide programing. I was told I need to use the DTVPal converter box for couple of nights to get the channel lineup and after that I should be fine.

Would anyone be willing to lend me the DTVPal for 2 or 3 days?

I am in San Francisco and would be happy to pick up the DTVPal and bring it back at your connivence.

Thanks in advance.
Pepe

Sent more Emails to both Rovi and WGCL this weekend to prod them along. Even asked why, when all these other convertor boxes had no problems, that because of one manufacturer they had to shut off the whole system. Why not make that manufacturer fix their box, cause it seems to me they made defective convertor box.
Never have received any replies back from Rovi so far. WGCL always gets back, so when I get their reply/update, I will post.
Michael

Hi,

I have a Sony DHG-HDD250 and since the digital switch over I cannot get my TVGuide programing. I was told I need to use the DTVPal converter box for couple of nights to get the channel lineup and after that I should be fine.

Would anyone be willing to lend me the DTVPal for 2 or 3 days?

I am in San Francisco and would be happy to pick up the DTVPal and bring it back at your connivence.

Thanks in advance.
Pepe

Remember (guess it has been mentioned) you can connect to cable service anywhere in the SF area to build a grid too, then bring the Sony Box back to your house and you should be fine. This is assuming of course the SF cable operators still provide legacy TVGOS service in your area. Most do in the USA. skimming the thread, that may not be available in SF?

Here is the update/reply from WGCL on the TVGOS problem:
Michael

We had a call with tv guide friday morning. They are just starting their investigation. They had not contacted Apex yet.

I expect the timeframe for correction of this problem will be weeks.....not days.

We took the action to remove the service as there is a least a 10 to 1 ratio of Apex converters to TVGO users.

Steve

So it looks like we will be without listings for a while at this rate. I will Email ROVI daily until I get a reply. All affected should do same.
Michael

I spoke with tech at Sony on the absence of a manual clock set. She sounded like she agreed with me and would pass on the request that an upgrade be made to enable a manual clock set. If more owners called for same, then maybe Sony will take action. Maybe not, but you don't know if you don't try. Trying anything beats doing nothing. If you don't ask or make noise, then how will things get done.
Michael

I spoke with tech at Sony on the absence of a manual clock set. She sounded like she agreed with me and would pass on the request that an upgrade be made to enable a manual clock set. If more owners called for same, then maybe Sony will take action. Maybe not, but you don't know if you don't try. Trying anything beats doing nothing. If you don't ask or make noise, then how will things get done.
Michael
Michael,

Please pass along any contacts you have for Sony and/or Rovi and I'll pester them as well. Did they have to wait until the new Fall season to shut the TVGOS off?

-Chris

My saga from TVGOS reset to full guide via FIOS cablecard has reached a modestly successful point. Research over the past week led me to believe Rovi (formerly macrovision) wasn't inserting guide data for FIOS lineups into my Wash DC metro TVGOS stream (WUSA-DT 9.) This is untrue. After about 10 days of waiting around for a lineup change (TVGOS seemed to be only distributing the local Comcast lineup) I finally received the option of selection FIOS/Silver Spring as my provider! Bad news is it only has shown about half of the HD channels which exist in the full FIOS lineup. Have to move around a few SD entries to enable their HD counterparts. Here's hoping Rovi will add more (and if at the expense of SD channels I'm ok with though that might annoy many TVGOS customers.)

Here is the update/reply from WGCL on the TVGOS problem:
Michael

We had a call with tv guide friday morning. They are just starting their investigation. They had not contacted Apex yet.

I expect the timeframe for correction of this problem will be weeks.....not days.

We took the action to remove the service as there is a least a 10 to 1 ratio of Apex converters to TVGO users.

Steve

So it looks like we will be without listings for a while at this rate. I will Email ROVI daily until I get a reply. All affected should do same.
Michael

Sounds very discouraging. And, if the solution ends up being a firmware upgrade to the Apex box – if that is even an option - just imagine, the folks using a converter box since they are still using an analog receiver, are also the least likely to have the wherewithal to conduct a firmware upgrade. From what you said previously WGCL will not consider turning it back on even during the middle of the night - yep, can't risk losing a single viewer watching with a converter box on an old CRT at 3 AM.

Sounds very discouraging. And, if the solution ends up being a firmware upgrade to the Apex box – if that is even an option - just imagine, the folks using a converter box since they are still using an analog receiver, are also the least likely to have the wherewithal to conduct a firmware upgrade. From what you said previously WGCL will not consider turning it back on even during the middle of the night - yep, can't risk losing a single viewer watching with a converter box on an old CRT at 3 AM.So why isn't it affecting Apex CECBs across the country? There must be something mismatched between that particular TVGOS inserter and that specific station's digital bitstream. You'd think someone there (WCGL engineers or ROVI engineers) would be smart enough to figure what the problem is.

Mark (mabuttra) -

I'm just curious if your Hostchan is still setting/resetting every 3 or 4 days or so. Mine are seeming to set/reset about every 2 or 3 weeks, and still curiously the 3 units all set/reset at days and times totally independant of each other. It would seem like if there were some specific "trigger" received in the TVGOS stream that all of my units would be more in sync with each other. :confused:

Mark (mabuttra) -

I'm just curious if your Hostchan is still setting/resetting every 3 or 4 days or so. Mine are seeming to set/reset about every 2 or 3 weeks, and still curiously the 3 units all set/reset at days and times totally independant of each other. It would seem like if there were some specific "trigger" received in the TVGOS stream that all of my units would be more in sync with each other. :confused:
I think there have been a number of people in this thread who have told us about having more than one unit AND having them act differently from one another!!!

Mark (mabuttra) -

I'm just curious if your Hostchan is still setting/resetting every 3 or 4 days or so. Mine are seeming to set/reset about every 2 or 3 weeks, and still curiously the 3 units all set/reset at days and times totally independant of each other.


My host channel still clears every 3.5 to 4 days after being set. It hasn't ever made it past 4 days.


It would seem like if there were some specific "trigger" received in the TVGOS stream that all of my units would be more in sync with each other. :confused:

Possumgirl has also talked about her 2 DVRs being out of sync. I can only guess as to why this happens. Some possibilities are that the DHG doesn't stay tuned to a prospective host channel 100% of the time when it is off, so it may occasionally miss some of the data (I think Frank70 was the one who suggested this). Another possibility is that the DVR just misses some data even when it is tuned to the host channel. This can't happen too often, or it would impact the nightly listings. Another more far fetched idea, is that the DVR may acquire all the data it needs to set a host channel, but may not actually set it for a day or two.

Mark

I spoke with tech at Sony on the absence of a manual clock set. She sounded like she agreed with me and would pass on the request that an upgrade be made to enable a manual clock set. If more owners called for same, then maybe Sony will take action. Maybe not, but you don't know if you don't try. Trying anything beats doing nothing. If you don't ask or make noise, then how will things get done.
Michael

I also got a nice note back from Steve at WGCL with the same information you have.

Separately, I spoke to a product specialist at Sony and he said they have been getting lots of requests for a firmware upgrade to allow setting the clock. They are "considering it". I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope for a fix anytime soon, but it wasn't a "No."

Interestingly, he said that they have also been getting no response from Rovi on these issues and are left in the dark. I think we all are a bit in the dark now...

My host channel still clears every 3.5 to 4 days after being set. It hasn't ever made it past 4 days.

Possumgirl has also talked about her 2 DVRs being out of sync. I can only guess as to why this happens. Some possibilities are that the DHG doesn't stay tuned to a prospective host channel 100% of the time when it is off, so it may occasionally miss some of the data (I think Frank70 was the one who suggested this). Another possibility is that the DVR just misses some data even when it is tuned to the host channel. This can't happen too often, or it would impact the nightly listings. Another more far fetched idea, is that the DVR may acquire all the data it needs to set a host channel, but may not actually set it for a day or two.

Mark

Mine typically clear the host at 3 to 3.5 days. Reacquiring the host can take as little as four hours or as long as two days (and once they took two weeks). This last time, one lost host just before midnight, the other around 9:30AM the following day, yet they both set the host at exactly the same time that afternoon. Another oddity is that they don't always get timezone packets the same. Sometimes one unit will get two and the other will get three or something like that. It changes back and forth so it's not always the same unit getting more. :D I just remain puzzled and thankful each day that they're still working.

Well continuing on my saga of trying to get the listings either over the air or cable. I decided to upgrade the software to version 21 from the sony website. For the past 5 days or so Charter has not been passing the analog version of cbs like they where doing via channel 94. I figured what do I have to lose? Anyway upgraded it and left it alone and lo and behold the time was set this morning but I had no grid. Coming home from work I was presently surprised that I had a full 8 days listings! I went into the screen to see what host channel it latched onto and it said ota 24.0 which is the CBS digital.

However I went back about an hour later and it did not show the host channel anymore. Why? However Charter is now back to broadcasting the analog verison at channel 94. I got ahold of an engineer and told him of the problem. A coincidence? who knows.

I will be curious which host channel sticks.

HDAddiction.

Here are the contacts for Rovi, Sony, and WGCL:
Rovi CE Support
E-mail Address(es):
ce_customer_support@rovicorp.com Rovi still has yet to reply to any Emails, so here is a number to call as well:800-386-7380.

Steve Flanagan
E-mail Address(es):
Steve.Flanagan@cbs46.com
Steve pretty much can only do so much with getting Rovi to do something, but I think if he sees there are a lot more of us with TVGOS than he thinks, then maybe we could at least get him to turn the system on during the midnight hours. Does not hurt to ask.

Sony Support (800) 222-7669
I called Sony about getting them to work on a patch/upgrade for us to have the ability to set our clocks manually. Told them that in the Atlanta area we have no TVGOS updates, hence no clock set time, therefore no ability to set manual recordings without a correct clock. Put a call in, can't hurt. Maybe someone there will listen and do this for us.
Michael

Mark/Possumgirl -

I guess what I am really asking is "how long till the HostChan sets again after it clears?"

My units seem to clear after the same 72-96 hour period, but then they take 3 or 3 weeks to reaquire the HostChan again. I believe that Mark had indicated in the past that his HostChan was only blank for 1 day before it set again. I'm wondering if that is still the case........... :)

I heard back from the engineer and they apparantly just turned off the analog feed channel 94, thinking that no one was using it. From what the engineer told me they got quite a few calls about it and turned it back on.

Lesson...Be vocal....and don't take no for the answer.

Also isn't there a law that the legacy devices have to be supported for a period of time?

HDAddiction.

WS, Mark, Possumgirl - I have posted new information on Spiff Sony Forums - thread power surge.

At this point, I will leave it alone a day or two and see if it will actually work; beginning to wonder?

Mark/Possumgirl -

I guess what I am really asking is "how long till the HostChan sets again after it clears?"

My units seem to clear after the same 72-96 hour period, but then they take 3 or 3 weeks to reaquire the HostChan again. I believe that Mark had indicated in the past that his HostChan was only blank for 1 day before it set again. I'm wondering if that is still the case........... :)

Here is what is "typical" for mine: yesterday they both lost the host just before 10PM local time and both set the host again at 5:46AM today, so just about 8 hours. Occasionally, it does take about 2 days though and I had one period where it took 2 weeks.

I was thinking that if you are asking for manual clock set, also ask for the feature of being able to label manual recordings. Then, worst case, no guide or clock, you'd setup manual (repeating) recordings, name them how you want, and the rest of the family wouldn't have any problems with playback. With those two features, not having guide would be merely a nuisance.

Thanks,
Wayne

I was thinking that if you are asking for manual clock set, also ask for the feature of being able to label manual recordings. Then, worst case, no guide or clock, you'd setup manual (repeating) recordings, name them how you want, and the rest of the family wouldn't have any problems with playback. With those two features, not having guide would be merely a nuisance.

Thanks,
Wayne
You still will need the clock to record. Problem I see here is that the TVGOS and Sony operations may not be completely intergrated as one. You would think though, since they have the code, it would be a simple fix to add a manual set clock feature. I had thought about the feature of being able to label manual recordings, as I have an older Panasonic which operates just as you describe. I'll wait and see when/if Sony does add a manual clock. Meanwhile the more who request it, the better our chances will be to get it. I am looking for a corporate contact at Sony that we all could Email as well on this.
Michael
Note; For clarification: I guess you meant the auto TVGOS clock when you said no clock.

Here are the contacts for Rovi, Sony, and WGCL:
Rovi CE Support
E-mail Address(es):
ce_customer_support@rovicorp.com Rovi still has yet to reply to any Emails, so here is a number to call as well:800-386-7380.

Steve Flanagan
E-mail Address(es):
Steve.Flanagan@cbs46.com
Steve pretty much can only do so much with getting Rovi to do something, but I think if he sees there are a lot more of us with TVGOS than he thinks, then maybe we could at least get him to turn the system on during the midnight hours. Does not hurt to ask.

Sony Support (800) 222-7669
I called Sony about getting them to work on a patch/upgrade for us to have the ability to set our clocks manually. Told them that in the Atlanta area we have no TVGOS updates, hence no clock set time, therefore no ability to set manual recordings without a correct clock. Put a call in, can't hurt. Maybe someone there will listen and do this for us.
Michael

Hopefully we can at least get CBS46 to give us a short data stream overnight so we can get a clock and start building the guide back...would be better than nothing.....especially with the new season starting now. I've emailed Steve, so hopefully he'll hear from enough of us to consider a compromise.

Thank God for Hulu....at least I can stream to the TV, even if shows will be a day or two late.

Hopefully we can at least get CBS46 to give us a short data stream overnight so we can get a clock and start building the guide back...would be better than nothing.....especially with the new season starting now. I've emailed Steve, so hopefully he'll hear from enough of us to consider a compromise.

Through e-mail I spoke with Steve at WGCL and he gave me the lowdown on the problem. Simply put, if they enable TVGOS, it wipes out not only the display of channel 46 on the Apex converter boxes, but also the fact that the channel exists at all. That means that even if they were to turn it on for two hours overnight, the TVGOS signal will wipe out WGCL permanently for thousands of people. Unfortunately, asking Steve to turn it on for even a few hours in its current configuration won't be met with much success because of the risk.

They have an Apex box to diagnose the issue, and they can readily reproduce the problem. But the TVGOS PC goes downstream from the entire station's signal and messes up the signal. So, they had to yank it.

As I see it, the only remaining hope is if he can put the TVGOS box further upstream in the station and possibly have a box downstream correct the issues. Based on the (un)liklihood of that working, I think Rovi is going to have to find another station in the area. We may want to focus our efforts on Rovi and try to get some movement there instead.

Mark/Possumgirl -

I guess what I am really asking is "how long till the HostChan sets again after it clears?"

My units seem to clear after the same 72-96 hour period, but then they take 3 or 3 weeks to reaquire the HostChan again. I believe that Mark had indicated in the past that his HostChan was only blank for 1 day before it set again. I'm wondering if that is still the case........... :)

After clearing, my host channel takes anywhere from a few hours (rare), up to 3 days (typical) to set again. If you followed my complete recovery using 08.01.42 that I posted a couple of weeks ago, it took 69 hours to recover.

Mark

They should load after a while. Until then edit the channel numbers of the regular versions to the HD channel numbers.

I appreciate the reply. I found out what the problem is. I was using a 2 way splitter withe cable to the tv and dvr to watch one while recording. Although the TV wasn't getting any signal loss the dvr was. I tried hooking the cable directly to the dvr and I got all channels. I have tried a few splitters from radio shack and none got good signal strength to the dvr. Does anyone know of a 2 way splitter that will work with the least amount of signal loss? Thanks in advance.

I appreciate the reply. I found out what the problem is. I was using a 2 way splitter withe cable to the tv and dvr to watch one while recording. Although the TV wasn't getting any signal loss the dvr was. I tried hooking the cable directly to the dvr and I got all channels. I have tried a few splitters from radio shack and none got good signal strength to the dvr. Does anyone know of a 2 way splitter that will work with the least amount of signal loss? Thanks in advance.
a 2-way splitter should result in a 3.5 db loss...no way around that, because you are dividing the signal strength in half

(I divide my antenna signal 4 ways with a device that includes an amplifier and that I got for about 20 bucks from Best Buy 4 or 5 years ago - I haven't noticed it there lately, but haven't actually looked for it)

a 2-way splitter should result in a 3.5 db loss...no way around that, because you are dividing the signal strength in half

(I divide my antenna signal 4 ways with a device that includes an amplifier and that I got for about 20 bucks from Best Buy 4 or 5 years ago - I haven't noticed it there lately, but haven't actually looked for it)
The 3.5 dB ideal loss is only part of the story. Cheap splitters will attenuate higher frequency signals more. They may be rated to 900MHz, but will start attenuating the signal at frequencies below that, and the signal drop increases as the frequency goes up. Try to get a splitter rated to 2 GHz. You don't have to buy an expensive Monster splitter, but you will have to spend a little more.

I appreciate the reply. I found out what the problem is. I was using a 2 way splitter withe cable to the tv and dvr to watch one while recording. Although the TV wasn't getting any signal loss the dvr was. I tried hooking the cable directly to the dvr and I got all channels. I have tried a few splitters from radio shack and none got good signal strength to the dvr. Does anyone know of a 2 way splitter that will work with the least amount of signal loss? Thanks in advance.Since apparently your DVR won't work with half the signal (and a passive splitter has no choice but divide it in half), what you want is one of these in front of the splitter: http://www.kitztech.com/

This unit works particularly well (I feed 3 TVs and 2 DVRs from it). The distribution amps they sell in WalMart, Radio Shack, Home Depot, and the like are junk and introduce more noise than the signal they are amplifying.

N.B.: I'm not affiliated with Kitz Technologies... just a happy end user.

Frank -

Can the Kitz amplifier be used to boost the cable line also?

Through e-mail I spoke with Steve at WGCL and he gave me the lowdown on the problem. Simply put, if they enable TVGOS, it wipes out not only the display of channel 46 on the Apex converter boxes, but also the fact that the channel exists at all. That means that even if they were to turn it on for two hours overnight, the TVGOS signal will wipe out WGCL permanently for thousands of people. Unfortunately, asking Steve to turn it on for even a few hours in its current configuration won't be met with much success because of the risk.

They have an Apex box to diagnose the issue, and they can readily reproduce the problem. But the TVGOS PC goes downstream from the entire station's signal and messes up the signal. So, they had to yank it.

As I see it, the only remaining hope is if he can put the TVGOS box further upstream in the station and possibly have a box downstream correct the issues. Based on the (un)liklihood of that working, I think Rovi is going to have to find another station in the area. We may want to focus our efforts on Rovi and try to get some movement there instead.

Thanks for passing on all of the information - does seem like it will be a long time before the problem is solved, or Rovi moves to a different host channel in Atlanta area. So, I will proceed with Plan B for me, which will be to rent DVR from cable company and await the final outcome. Will be a little painful since in addition to the $20/month rental, they have mandatory "professional installation" required (another $30 or so) just to hook it up, and the capacity is only up to 20 hours of HD content. Tivo would be other option, but want to hold on to some hope that it will get resolved eventually.

I appreciate the reply. I found out what the problem is. I was using a 2 way splitter withe cable to the tv and dvr to watch one while recording. Although the TV wasn't getting any signal loss the dvr was. I tried hooking the cable directly to the dvr and I got all channels. I have tried a few splitters from radio shack and none got good signal strength to the dvr. Does anyone know of a 2 way splitter that will work with the least amount of signal loss? Thanks in advance.

I have two Radio Shack splitters (15-2506) that provide some amplification and make RF cables much easier to control. They are a store item and cost $50. It's much easier than trying to daisy-chain a VCR, DVR (2), DVD and TV. It uses a power supply and I use some 90 degree adapters also. Rated to 1000Mhz.

Thanks for passing on all of the information - does seem like it will be a long time before the problem is solved, or Rovi moves to a different host channel in Atlanta area. So, I will proceed with Plan B for me, which will be to rent DVR from cable company and await the final outcome. Will be a little painful since in addition to the $20/month rental, they have mandatory "professional installation" required (another $30 or so) just to hook it up, and the capacity is only up to 20 hours of HD content. Tivo would be other option, but want to hold on to some hope that it will get resolved eventually.
Have you you looked into the Moxi boxes? If I was on cable, that would be a choice for me
Michael

Through e-mail I spoke with Steve at WGCL and he gave me the lowdown on the problem. Simply put, if they enable TVGOS, it wipes out not only the display of channel 46 on the Apex converter boxes, but also the fact that the channel exists at all. That means that even if they were to turn it on for two hours overnight, the TVGOS signal will wipe out WGCL permanently for thousands of people. Unfortunately, asking Steve to turn it on for even a few hours in its current configuration won't be met with much success because of the risk.

They have an Apex box to diagnose the issue, and they can readily reproduce the problem. But the TVGOS PC goes downstream from the entire station's signal and messes up the signal. So, they had to yank it.

As I see it, the only remaining hope is if he can put the TVGOS box further upstream in the station and possibly have a box downstream correct the issues. Based on the (un)liklihood of that working, I think Rovi is going to have to find another station in the area. We may want to focus our efforts on Rovi and try to get some movement there instead.

We should be Emailing Apex about their box and the problems it is causing.
To move TVGOS to another host station will not solve this problem.
Michael

Here is the contact informatio for Apex: customerservice@apexdigitalinc.com <customerservice@apexdigitalinc.com>
Customer Service / Technical Support
866-4APEXGO (866-427-3946) Toll-Free
909-230-4829 Fax
24 Hours a day
I sent them a note asking them to provide a fix for the problem that their box is causing. I will post when I get a reply. Not sure which box that is actually causing the problem, does anyone know? And why did it take so long to show up? The transistion was 3 months age, yet why now?
Michael

I sent them a note asking them to provide a fix for the problem that their box is causing. I will post when I get a reply. Not sure which box that is actually causing the problem, does anyone know? And why did it take so long to show up? The transistion was 3 months age, yet why now?Customers in some other TVGOS markets said they don't have trouble tuning CBS on their Apex boxes, so this sounds like an interoperability issue between the TVGOS encoder and the other equipment used at the affiliate.

As far as taking three months, that's how long it took them to diagnose the issue and determine the cause for the incompatibility with Apex CECBs.

We have both Insignia and Artec converter boxes working without problems in both Houston and Dallas. Both markets have CBS with TVGOS on 11-1. Houston is RF 11. Dallas is both RF 11 and RF 19.

The Artec also has the analogue pass through which works fine.

I believe the Apex has analogue pass through as well. Could it be creating a feed back loop which cancels data out?

If the Apex does work correctly in other cities, then it would appear to be a problem at the one station?

I have two Radio Shack splitters (15-2506) that provide some amplification and make RF cables much easier to control. They are a store item and cost $50. It's much easier than trying to daisy-chain a VCR, DVR (2), DVD and TV. It uses a power supply and I use some 90 degree adapters also. Rated to 1000Mhz.

I have 3 of these, 2 for cable (cascaded) and 1 for antenna.
2 are at least 10 years old. Low power draw (abt 3 watts) and they are bi-directional. They also have a gain control.

Highly recommended

You still will need the clock to record. Problem I see here is that the TVGOS and Sony operations may not be completely intergrated as one. You would think though, since they have the code, it would be a simple fix to add a manual set clock feature. I had thought about the feature of being able to label manual recordings, as I have an older Panasonic which operates just as you describe. I'll wait and see when/if Sony does add a manual clock. Meanwhile the more who request it, the better our chances will be to get it. I am looking for a corporate contact at Sony that we all could Email as well on this.
Michael
Note; For clarification: I guess you meant the auto TVGOS clock when you said no clock.

Yes, sorry. I did mean the auto-set TVGOS clock. With a manual clock set, and manual recordings, being able to label the recordings would make the box viable and very functional even in the permanent absence of guide data. (perish the thought)

People that use this Sony DVR along with off-air and the ZvBox 150 from ZeeVee would have a sweet little setup.

FYI:
Based on the same technology used by TV stations and cable companies, ZvBox™ turns the output of a VGA or HD source into an HDTV cable channel and broadcasts it over coax cabling to all connected HDTVs. To view the HD source, simply tune in your new Zv channel at any of the HDTVs. Compatibility with existing coax cabling means ZvBox is ideal for retrofit applications.

It's a great way to get OTHER signals into the Sony. Possibilities are wide open.

Thanks,
Wayne
P.S. Regarding the snafu on the Apex converter boxes, remember what snafu stands for. We can't just catch a break and have something work for everyone. Ugh.

Michael,I am a tvgos user in Atlanta,as a lot of friends. We have been in the dark on what,s going on. I have just starting to look for info. and ran across this forum.Please keep posting information and what we all can do to help. We want our tvgos back wgcl 46.1

Michael,I am a tvgos user in Atlanta,as a lot of friends. We have been in the dark on what,s going on. I have just starting to look for info. and ran across this forum.Please keep posting information and what we all can do to help. We want our tvgos back wgcl 46.1

Doesn't seem to be very much we can do at this point. WGCL seems to be the only responsive party involved and they have told me as well as others here that they will not consider turning the TVG signal back on until they see that it does not remove their listing from the converter boxes.
Maybe not though..maybe they'll figure a way around it, but it doesn't seem to be a big priority to them (or anyone for that matter).

BTW, I know you weren't addressing me, but as another person that has been in touch with one of the responsible parties, this is the idea I've gotten.....

Doesn't seem to be very much we can do at this point. WGCL seems to be the only responsive party involved and they have told me as well as others here that they will not consider turning the TVG signal back on until they see that it does not remove their listing from the converter boxes.
Maybe not though..maybe they'll figure a way around it, but it doesn't seem to be a big priority to them (or anyone for that matter).

BTW, I know you weren't addressing me, but as another person that has been in touch with one of the responsible parties, this is the idea I've gotten.....
It begs the question that if other cities aren't having issues with TVGOS and Apex converters, why doesn't Steve at WGCL check with CBS affliates in the other major cities and copy their equipment/system design? Certainly, WGCL isn't paying Dagmar top dollar and should have some more funds in the budget to upgrade equipment...LOL

Frank -

Can the Kitz amplifier be used to boost the cable line also?I don't know why not but you'd better email Mr. Kitz about that. It's not what it's intended for. If you're not getting plenty of signal from your cable, it would be preferrable to contact your cable provider and see what the problem is.

Here's an update on the HostSUFlags information that I posted here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16507101#post16507101) about 4 months ago. I have identified 3 more bits that make up the HostSUFlags. I have now identified 6 of the 9 bits. Unfortunately, the 3 new bits that I have identified are common, and I think everyone's DVR receives these with no problem.

Here are the bits in order from highest to lowest.
Bit Weight Event that sets this bit Screen the data field is on
0x80000000 753 menu clock set (NumClkSets) VBI Data-VBI Info
0x40000000 Host ID set System-Statistics
0x20000000 TimezonePkt received Reception-VBI Stats
0x10000000 ???? ????
0x08000000 ???? ????
0x04000000 EPP packet received Reception-VBI Stats
0x02000000 DPP packet received Reception-VBI Stats
0x01000000 ???? ????
0x00800000 HostSchedule packet received Reception-VBI Stats
The values in red are the newly identified bits.

If all the known bits are set the HostSUFlags value is 0xe6800000. I'm sure this is a familiar number to anyone who has watched this field.

I have no idea what EPP or DPP stands for, and I won't even try to guess.

Mark

I don't know why not but you'd better email Mr. Kitz about that. It's not what it's intended for. If you're not getting plenty of signal from your cable, it would be preferrable to contact your cable provider and see what the problem is.

The problem is the cable is split to 7 different rooms, and within 4 of those rooms it is then split again (3 to DVR's and 1 to cable modem). :D

Here's an update on the HostSUFlags information that I posted here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16507101#post16507101) about 4 months ago. I have identified 3 more bits that make up the HostSUFlags. I have now identified 6 of the 9 bits. Unfortunately, the 3 new bits that I have identified are common, and I think everyone's DVR receives these with no problem.

Here are the bits in order from highest to lowest.
Bit Weight Event that sets this bit Screen the data field is on
0x80000000 753 menu clock set (NumClkSets) VBI Data-VBI Info
0x40000000 Host ID set System-Statistics
0x20000000 TimezonePkt received Reception-VBI Stats
0x10000000 ???? ????
0x08000000 ???? ????
0x04000000 EPP packet received Reception-VBI Stats
0x02000000 DPP packet received Reception-VBI Stats
0x01000000 ???? ????
0x00800000 HostSchedule packet received Reception-VBI Stats
The values in red are the newly identified bits.

If all the known bits are set the HostSUFlags value is 0xe6800000. I'm sure this is a familiar number to anyone who has watched this field.

I have no idea what EPP or DPP stands for, and I won't even try to guess.

Mark

Mark, thanks for the posting on “bits” – it’s really all greek to me. Is that chart from lowest to highest or highest to lowest (see I am confused)?

Anyway is the highest 0xff8? And does that equal HostChannel set?

Here are my screens shots from this morning – still No Grid since resetting the box to eliminate the hard lock ups. Box is operating 100% correct now – can record a current show, or record from manual clock, while watching another; all without lock ups.

Pic 7766: Current VBI Info

Pic 7767: VBI Stats

Pic 7768: Heap Info – appears all normal – thus no crazy instant lock ups

Pic 7770: Sysidle Id – appears to be receiving data correctly – normally “-2” and occasionally going to “0” (about every 6-10 seconds)

Guideidle Id – is essentially “stuck” on “-2” I assume it is that way because the Box has “No Grid” to put data in and all listings data are rejected.

Hello,

I have had the sony unit for a few years. It has mostly worked well, but recently have had a few issues, where recordings were cutting short. I reformatted the drive and then decided to install the new software. However, now my guide is gone and the Gtest doesn't work.

My clock was wrong, but now has the correct time and it appears ads show up, but no grid or guide data. How do I get my guide back?

Hello,

I have had the sony unit for a few years. It has mostly worked well, but recently have had a few issues, where recordings were cutting short. I reformatted the drive and then decided to install the new software. However, now my guide is gone and the Gtest doesn't work.

My clock was wrong, but now has the correct time and it appears ads show up, but no grid or guide data. How do I get my guide back?



Lots of variables there? Which city (DMA), OTA only, cable only, both? Who is your host? etc Others located in your DMA with the same source may be able to help?

Hello,

I have had the Sony unit for a few years. It has mostly worked well, but recently have had a few issues, where recordings were cutting short. I reformatted the drive and then decided to install the new software. However, now my guide is gone and the Gtest doesn't work.

My clock was wrong, but now has the correct time and it appears ads show up, but no grid or guide data. How do I get my guide back?

Since the transition, I have had several problems that have caused my units to loose the TVGOS.

My advice is to be patient. Tune the unit to your host channel and turn it off. Leave it off. Don't mess with it. Do nothing. Since you have the correct clock now, you should begin to see a TVGOS grid within about 12 hours. It should begin to repopulate during the next 12 - 24 hours.

The latest and scariest event occurred 4 days ago. The unit "froze" when I tried to watch a recorded program from the hard drive while recording another from the antenna. The unit became unreponsive to the remote or any buttons on the front. It would not even power down until I pulled the plug. It then went through several reboots after which it displayed the dread "no data" message on the TVGOS screen.

I left it off for 4 days (it is the back-up unit that I use mostly for recording shows that I save to record to DVD later). I was starting to freak out because it had not even regained the clock.

This morning I went to SpiffSpace FAQ and was going to try to reset the unit. Lo and behold, when I went out to the living room, the unit had regained the clock and TVGOS grid. Now, I just have to wait for the grid to repopulate. : )

Has anyone else noticed strange behavior when using a universal remote with these units?

This has happened to me twice. First time I was using a cheap One 4 All remote (first universal I could get to work with it). I finally got a working code and was checking the function of all buttons and I pressed either the mute or the last channel button and the Sony flipped out. I got an immediate hard drive error and the unit rebooted. Lost clock and guide and took some time to recover.

I thought this was an isolated incident, but I got a Harmony remote this week and while checking functions, I pressed the mute button. Immediate hard drive error and reset, which totally sucks for me since I'm in Atlanta and our guide data is not being broadcast for the foreseeable future...I now have a clock that is about an hour behind so manual recordings for the start of the new season are going to be difficult....

Has anyone else had anything like this happen?

Also, (and this may be a dumb question), but why, during a quick reset like this, does the clock come back as off as it does? Seems like it could recover the time that was set before the issue....at least it would only be a few minutes off at that point.

Lots of variables there? Which city (DMA), OTA only, cable only, both? Who is your host? etc Others located in your DMA with the same source may be able to help?

I am OTA only in Albuquerque. The Host is channel 5.1. I don't know what DMA means.

I am OTA only in Albuquerque. The Host is channel 5.1. I don't know what DMA means.

ok, according to rabbit ears your are number 62 on the DMA list (it is actually called something else now-not important-demograhpic marketing area)

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos


So your TVGOS source is PBS 5.1..........and there were some changes about 8/19/09 there at that station? I guess?

Are there any Albuquerque Peeps on the thread that know what is going on in that market for OTA, that can help him out?

Mark, thanks for the posting on “bits” – it’s really all greek to me. Is that chart from lowest to highest or highest to lowest (see I am confused)?

Anyway is the highest 0xff8? And does that equal HostChannel set?

[...]


The bit weights go from the left most bit, 31, down to bit 23 (9 bits total), the rest of the bits (0 to 22) are unused. Each digit represents 4 bits. Each bit is set by one of the 9 events occurring. Each bit is only effected by one event. For instance, receiving a timezone packet will always set bit 29. If all 9 bits are set, the value will be 0xff800000 and your host channel will be set.

Mark

Hello,

I have had the sony unit for a few years. It has mostly worked well, but recently have had a few issues, where recordings were cutting short. I reformatted the drive and then decided to install the new software. However, now my guide is gone and the Gtest doesn't work.

My clock was wrong, but now has the correct time and it appears ads show up, but no grid or guide data. How do I get my guide back?

I'm in the Albuquerque DMA and have not updated my software, because my unit has worked thru the digital transition. Today, my unit has 8 days of guide data and the g*test shows that KNME 5.1 passes the VBI test. The packets are about 50/minute, which is about 1/2 the rate from the previous time I checked. From what I've read here, the g*test doesn't work after you install the new software. I think the best strategy is to tune your Sony to 5.1 before you put the unit in standby mode.

The problem is the cable is split to 7 different rooms, and within 4 of those rooms it is then split again (3 to DVR's and 1 to cable modem). :D

WS65711,
Based on the number of splits, I would suggest this amp. It is expensive but highly appropiate for your situation.
http://www.hometech.com/hts/products/video/amplifiers/cv-cvt40bid.html

Also I would get a 2 way and a 16 way splitter.
http://www.hometech.com/hts/products/video/splitters/rf/cv-hs.html

If you only have one cable line coming into your home hook it to the 2 way splitter and run the one leg of the splitter right to your cable modem. Then the other leg of the splitter will go into the amp, then out of the amp and into the 16 way splitter. From there run a seperate line to each device. Put termination caps on any unused ports on the 16 way splitter.

If you need cable then I would recommend this cable.
http://www.hometech.com/hts/products/video/bulk_cable/be-7916aw.html

Coaxial TH-SNS6QS connectors.
http://www.hometech.com/hts/products/video/connectors/connectors/compression/th-sns1p6u.html

Coaxial Stripper tool. Link includes video how to strip and terminate coaxial cable.
http://www.hometech.com/hts/products/tools/coax_term/strippers/ec-200004.html

Compression tool for SNS connectors.
http://www.hometech.com/hts/products/tools/coax_term/compression/sa-sar1098.html

I'm sorry for being off topic:o and I am not affiliated with this company in any way, shape, or form. Last year, I installed a Channel Vision structured media system in my house. I purchased over $3000 worth of stuff from this company and had it shipped to my home in eastern PA and didn't have one single problem with this company. I am using all the products that is listed here exept the amp. I don't need to amplify with my current set up because I have two additional cable feeds coming into my house. One is dedicated for my internet and telephone.

Mark and WS,

Based upon extreme fuzzy math and the way Houston has been delivering TVGOS. MySonyBox should have its Grid back by October 1st. Within a 15 day cycle. That is, HostChannel should set deep within the “third” NumSearch. It was about the third day in the third NumSearch when HostChannel set before. And it should do so without creating a lock up situation as it did before?

What you guys think?

Pic 7733: Box is running correctly from the Grid built via Artec from Sept 2nd and then disconnected on Sept 2nd - no host channel set

Pic 7737: HostChannel set via digial only (not legacy Artec and is disconnected)........this created Hard Lock Up - Box non-functional

Pic 7771: a few days after running "spiff" and "whathappened" recovery without Reset Factory Defaults (I did not format hard drive). Now waiting for Clean Grid to be built via only digital OTA TVGOS (not legacy source from Artec). Box is 100% operational at this point; but No Grid - waiting mode.

Mark and WS,

Based upon extreme fuzzy math and the way Houston has been delivering TVGOS. MySonyBox should have its Grid back by October 1st. Within a 15 day cycle. That is, HostChannel should set deep within the “third” NumSearch. It was about the third day in the third NumSearch when HostChannel set before. And it should do so without creating a lock up situation as it did before?

What you guys think?
What exactly should we be looking at on those pictures? Looks foreign to me. :o

And how do you get to that screen again?

Thanks

This is a reply from Steve about the problem here with TVGOS and those Apex boxes:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Michael,
As it turns out now that we have made the connection between TVGOS and Apex boxes we have heard that other markets have the same problem.

I had further discussions yesterday regarding the engineering approach they take with the data insertion. They are looking at alternatives.

Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------
This reply form Apex about their defective boxes:
Dear Michael,

Thank you for contacting Apex Digital Online Service with your inquiry regarding the Converter Box.
We are sorry to inform you that we do not have any Patch/Upgrade for any Converter Boxes. Thank you for the suggestion. We will try to add this option in future days with our new products.

If you need further assistance, do not hesitate to reply to this message with any additional details you require or you can also contact us at our toll free number 866-427-3946 for further assistance.

Thank you for the opportunity to be of assistance.

Regards,

Brad Peterson,

Customer Service Department,

Apex Digital Inc.
------------------------------------------------
So as you see, it looks like this Apex box is the culprit, yet all I know to do is press them to fix/replace those boxes. Can not beleive that there are so many more Apex boxes out there as compared to all the rest which use TVGOS. Steve said it was a 10 to 1 ratio. No other boxes seem to have the same problem.
Michael

Mark and WS,

Based upon extreme fuzzy math and the way Houston has been delivering TVGOS. MySonyBox should have its Grid back by October 1st. Within a 15 day cycle. That is, HostChannel should set deep within the “third” NumSearch. It was about the third day in the third NumSearch when HostChannel set before. And it should do so without creating a lock up situation as it did before?

What you guys think?

I don't know about the fuzzy part (although my son is looking to buy a good Fuzz Face :)), but the 15 day part seems quite likely. My main unit in the family room set it's HostChan on 8/31, then lost it 3 days later, then set it again on 9/15. This pattern has seemd to be the norm for me since June 12th. The only funny part is that my other two units run the same 15-day schedule, but days apart from each other, and from unit number 1. And my Mits TV that runs V-9.1.56 acquires the HostChan and never lets go of it . . . :confused:

Are you presently connected to the Artec, or are you now trying without it?

I don't know about the fuzzy part (although my son is looking to buy a good Fuzz Face :)), but the 15 day part seems quite likely. My main unit in the family room set it's HostChan on 8/31, then lost it 3 days later, then set it again on 9/15. This pattern has seemd to be the norm for me since June 12th. The only funny part is that my other two units run the same 15-day schedule, but days apart from each other, and from unit number 1. And my Mits TV that runs V-9.1.56 acquires the HostChan and never lets go of it . . . :confused:

Are you presently connected to the Artec, or are you now trying without it?

I will not be using Artec for at least the next 15 days, since it appears to me that Houston has changed its TVGOS ways. Artec has been disconnected since about September 2nd (last used). It will remain disconnected till about Oct 1st. It looks like to me, I should have HostChannel before the completion of NumSearch 3 (just before it goes to 4). At least that is what I think is going on?

I edited #18810 above to be a little more clear?

So as you see, it looks like this Apex box is the culprit, yet all I know to do is press them to fix/replace those boxes. Can not beleive that there are so many more Apex boxes out there as compared to all the rest which use TVGOS. Steve said it was a 10 to 1 ratio. No other boxes seem to have the same problem.
Michael

He used the same 10:1 figure when I emailed him, then corrected himself and said "probably more like 100:1". I think everyone is in CYA mode and figures they'll just let the smallest group drift indefinitely, and if it gets fixed, great, if it doesn't, oh well.

But I can see TVGOS users being in the vast minority. You think about the dominance that Best Buy has in the Atlanta market....You gotta figure every low income neighborhood ITP is chock full of those converter boxes, plus a good majority of the seniors OTP have most likely yet to upgrade their TV's. There's a ton of folks that went to the closest BB and bought whatever converter their gubment subsidy (coupon) would buy them.....that's going on the assumption that the Apex box in question is a lower cost unit.

He used the same 10:1 figure when I emailed him, then corrected himself and said "probably more like 100:1". I think everyone is in CYA mode and figures they'll just let the smallest group drift indefinitely, and if it gets fixed, great, if it doesn't, oh well.

But I can see TVGOS users being in the vast minority. You think about the dominance that Best Buy has in the Atlanta market....You gotta figure every low income neighborhood ITP is chock full of those converter boxes, plus a good majority of the seniors OTP have most likely yet to upgrade their TV's. There's a ton of folks that went to the closest BB and bought whatever converter their gubment subsidy (coupon) would buy them.....that's going on the assumption that the Apex box in question is a lower cost unit.

Well, I broke down and commenced renting a DVR from Charter until either problem is resolved, or I decide to purchase Tivo or Moxi device. On the other hand I dread the prospect of a new cablecard install on a box like that; while Charter was at the house yesterday to "install" the DVR ( = plug in the cables for $30), I had them add a cablecard to a Sony LCD TV - which turned into a four hour drama to get one that would work. Also, the technician had no idea on how to change the DVR output to 1080i, leaving it in 480p + mono sound mode, until I later figured out how to change the settings. Just imagine the legions of HDTV owners who are watching SD on their sets because of this kind of nonsense - but I digress.

The 100:1 ratio of Apex:TVGOS users sounds reasonable, but unfortunate for our cause. I'll keep reading this board, sending emails, and hoping.

I had spoken with a Sony tech last week and asked about an upgrade fix to enable/give us a way to manually set the clock. I explain that I already had the .21 upgrade and she said she understood that what I wanted was a way to manually set the clock.
Well, guess what? I get home today and in the mail is a USB drive with the
.21 upgrade on it along with the install sheet. Do these people ever really listen to anyone any more? Or was something lost in the translation when she passed along my request?
Michael

My main unit in the family room set it's HostChan on 8/31, then lost it 3 days later, then set it again on 9/15. This pattern has seemd to be the norm for me since June 12th. The only funny part is that my other two units run the same 15-day schedule, but days apart from each other, and from unit number 1. And my Mits TV that runs V-9.1.56 acquires the HostChan and never lets go of it . . . :confused:

The problem you guys are having is because your version 8 can not fully read the TVG1 data stream and is mainly running off the Mpeg Leagacy Stream.

So I don't have to rehash how this is possible here is links to two posts explaining this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17117660&postcount=525

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17117948&postcount=526

The legacy stream is an exact digitized copy of the original TV Guide 2x VBI waveform and any mpeg decoder can decode it directly with out first converting it back to an analog VBI waveform. And since the legacy stream is not embedded in the host stations mpeg stream like TVG1 and TVG2, it will not have a host channel until it is converted either by a DTV Pal or Artec box for OTA or a cable company converts the stream into an analog copy of the HD feed. Since the Mpeg decoder in your devices is directly decoding the legacy stream, it will not produce a host channel.

When your version 8 does set the host channel it is trying to decode TVG1, which it can not do properly because the data it needs is not in that stream. When the host channel does set take note of the VBI state. If it reads 0x07 then it is working properly. If it reads 0x03, or somewhere in between 0x03 and 0x07, then it is searching for a new TVGOS data stream. Once the VBI state goes to 0x03 it will take about three days for it to reaquire the legacy stream.
Read jtbell's post from early august:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16956239&postcount=18517

See what nobody has been able to find out if version 8 data even exists in the TVG1 data stream and I have yet to read any post on this forum that verifies any version 8's are definately running off the TVG1 data stream. This probably explains why Rovicorp says version 8's can't do digital downloads because the data for version 8, especially the patches, only exist in the legacy stream.
Another problem I personally suspect is that the version 8 guides that are running off the unconverted legacy stream have aquired the wrong download schedule. This may explain the long waits to aquire a grid.

My two version 9 pioneer kuros never lose the host channel. Also take notice that anybody who is using the DTV Pal or Artec boxes or have an analog feed from their cable company for their version 8's are not having this problem.

Maybe you guys should get rid of the Sony update patch and use Mabuttras procedure and see if this alleviates your problem or use a converter box or a converted cable feed. Remember Rovicorp never tested sony's patch to see if it works properly.

............ See what nobody has been able to find out if version 8 data even exists in the TVG1 data stream and I have yet to read any post on this forum that verifies any version 8's are definately running off the TVG1 data stream. This probably explains why Rovicorp says version 8's can't do digital downloads because the data for version 8, especially the patches, only exist in the legacy stream......................


To be clear, in my case, I'm not really having any "problem". Only somewhat of an inconvenience in that if I were to lose the Grid, it takes me approximately three to six days to recover. I have done this (intentionally as a test) three times subsequent to June 12th. The recovery was accomplished with only digital TVGOS stations available, and from a complete "Restore Factory Defaults" once and a "Reset TVGOS Defaults" twice.

When my DVR's "lose" the HostChan, they still continue to download listings daily. This is the same as others have experienced. The major problem that DHG-HDDxxx users in some areas of the country are experiencing is that if they lose the Grid, there is "something" missing in their local TVGOS data stream that prevents them from re-acquiring the Grid.

The problem you guys are having is because your version 8 can not fully read the TVG1 data stream and is mainly running off the Mpeg Leagacy Stream.



I can't speak for the accuracy of this information, but if my DVR were getting listings from the legacy data stream, wouldn't the guide take 3 hours to fill in only 4 days of data instead of the 30 minute, 8 day downloads like it actually does?


[...]
Read jtbell's post from early august:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16956239&postcount=18517


I should point out that my DVR had the same problem as jtbell's does from February to May. However, the problems disappeared once the analog download schedules were removed. My only download schedule left is a digital download schedule.


See what nobody has been able to find out if version 8 data even exists in the TVG1 data stream and I have yet to read any post on this forum that verifies any version 8's are definately running off the TVG1 data stream. This probably explains why Rovicorp says version 8's can't do digital downloads because the data for version 8, especially the patches, only exist in the legacy stream.


I think Rovicorp actually said that 08.01.42 won't work in a digital environment, but version 08.01.65 and up will (the .21 upgrade uses base version 08.01.71).


Another problem I personally suspect is that the version 8 guides that are running off the unconverted legacy stream have aquired the wrong download schedule. This may explain the long waits to aquire a grid.


Mine works just fine with, or without the host channel set. As I said above I only have one download schedule. Acquiring a grid has nothing to do with download schedules, since they aren't even used until you acquire a host channel. Also, as WS67511 pointed out, we highly suspect that there is data missing (or sent out very infrequently) from some of the digital TVGOS streams flowing around the country. This is why it takes 90 days to get a grid in Houston, a week to get a grid in Louisiana, 3 days here, and never in San Francisco. If these problems were related to the Sony, It would take the same length of time for everyone to acquire a grid, no matter where they were located.


Maybe you guys should get rid of the Sony update patch and use Mabuttras procedure and see if this alleviates your problem or use a converter box or a converted cable feed. Remember Rovicorp never tested sony's patch to see if it works properly.

Hold it right there! In no way do I recommend that people dump the 1.2.21 firmware. I swear by the 1.2.21 firmware. I can recover a grid with it, and I don't have to doink around with 9012 menus, and G* Tests. Other than that, it works identically to the old firmware. The demonstration that I posted of recovering using the old firmware, was a complete waste of my time, but I got tired of reading the misinformation that the previous firmware would not work in a digital environment. At this point in time, I have no intention of reverting back to 1.2.13 again.

Mark

Mark and WS,

Based upon extreme fuzzy math and the way Houston has been delivering TVGOS. MySonyBox should have its Grid back by October 1st. Within a 15 day cycle. That is, HostChannel should set deep within the “third” NumSearch. It was about the third day in the third NumSearch when HostChannel set before. And it should do so without creating a lock up situation as it did before?

What you guys think?



Let's look at the facts...

Your DVR acquired a host channel in about 90 days.

From this you conclude:
"MySonyBox should have its Grid back by October 1st. Within a 15 day cycle."

That is some real fuzzy math, alright. ;)

Your DVR has not established any kind of pattern to jump to that conclusion. You may have a grid by October first. You may have a grid by Halloween. You could have one tomorrow. Who knows?

Mark

. . . . . Hold it right there! In no way do I recommend that people dump the 1.2.21 firmware. I swear by the 1.2.21 firmware. I can recover a grid with it, and I don't have to doink around with 9012 menus, and G* Tests. Other than that, it works identically to the old firmware. The demonstration that I posted of recovering using the old firmware, was a complete waste of my time, but I got tired of reading the misinformation that the previous firmware would not work in a digital environment. At this point in time, I have no intention of reverting back to 1.2.13 again.

Mark

Hold it right there! I have seen several times where people have claimed the only difference with the 1.2.21 firmware is "not having to do the G*test" to turn on the digital side. I can say that in my experience I have noticed two other benefits. Prior to 1.2.21, I experienced a number of random audio dropouts in the DD-5.1 signal to my receiver. After 1.2.21, although I still experience some dropouts, the frequency and duration of these dropouts has been greatly reduced. Nothing else was changed in my system. In addition, prior to 1.2.21 the "W" recording option had proven to be utterly unreliable for me. About a month ago I tried the "W" option again upon the advice of a co-worker that it was working fine for him. I was pleasantly surprised to find that this option now works as intended for me.

I can't speak for the accuracy of this information, but if my DVR were getting listings from the legacy data stream, wouldn't the guide take 3 hours to fill in only 4 days of data instead of the 30 minute, 8 day downloads like it actually does?

yes! and this demonstrates directly that Jed1's claim that we're getting data from the legacy stream is wrong...

in fact, when - as an experiment - I hooked up my DTVPal to the Sony during the summer (set up with the Pal as described for the LG3410a in the link in my signature), the Sony latched onto the output on channel 3 as host channel, changed to an analog download schedule, AND downloaded day 1,2,5,8 overnight...

Without the Pal, my unit has a digital download schedule, although - having a blank host channel - it doesn't actually record when the downloads occur, and - like others - I can get the full grid filled (or at least 7.5 days) in one day if I've lost the data somehow...

But I just lent my Pal to a Sony owner who wanted to get the time and grid back...so for those losing these and their lineup, I still recommend the Pal...:)

Hold it right there! I have seen several times where people have claimed the only difference with the 1.2.21 firmware is "not having to do the G*test" to turn on the digital side. I can say that in my experience I have noticed two other benefits. Prior to 1.2.21, I experienced a number of random audio dropouts in the DD-5.1 signal to my receiver. After 1.2.21, although I still experience some dropouts, the frequency and duration of these dropouts has been greatly reduced. Nothing else was changed in my system. In addition, prior to 1.2.21 the "W" recording option had proven to be utterly unreliable for me. About a month ago I tried the "W" option again upon the advice of a co-worker that it was working fine for him. I was pleasantly surprised to find that this option now works as intended for me.

Copycat. :)
I have also noticed other minor functionality changes (on the Sony side), but I have found the TVGOS system still works the same IMO. My audio dropouts seem to be about the same as before. Also, I have used the "W" option for recording without problems since I got mine. What kind of problems were you seeing with that?

Mark

Copycat. :)
I have also noticed other minor functionality changes (on the Sony side), but I have found the TVGOS system still works the same IMO. My audio dropouts seem to be about the same as before. Also, I have used the "W" option for recording without problems since I got mine. What kind of problems were you seeing with that?

Mark

When I first got one of these units (late 2006 I think) I tried the "W" option a number of times. The "W" scheduled recording (for the subsequent week) would appear in the Guide for a few days, but then would just vanish from the schedule and the recording would never take place. I saw many posts from others at that time about this in this thread. I gave up on it, and never tried it again until my co-worker said he was using it successfully. :)

I had spoken with a Sony tech last week and asked about an upgrade fix to enable/give us a way to manually set the clock. I explain that I already had the .21 upgrade and she said she understood that what I wanted was a way to manually set the clock.
Well, guess what? I get home today and in the mail is a USB drive with the
.21 upgrade on it along with the install sheet. Do these people ever really listen to anyone any more? Or was something lost in the translation when she passed along my request?
Michael

I feel the answer is: no one cares. I have been sending emails to every Sony address I can find on their web site asking for a manual clock set addition. Sometimes I get a reply that includes the actual email address for CE support. Usually though the response is "Huh?" I'm using the "shotgun" approach rather than the "50mm multiple shot" approach. Maybe I will hit a Sony employee that actuall owns a DHD. Never know.

When I first got one of these units (late 2006 I think) I tried the "W" option a number of times. The "W" scheduled recording (for the subsequent week) would appear in the Guide for a few days, but then would just vanish from the schedule and the recording would never take place. I saw many posts from others at that time about this in this thread. I gave up on it, and never tried it again until my co-worker said he was using it successfully. :)

Ok, I know what you are talking about now. I have seen that both on the Sony, and my Panasonic analog V7 DVR. I thought I saw this last spring with the .21 firmware, but I could be mistaken. I never associated it with the "W" option, since, in my case, it wouldn't even record the first time after setting it (I assumed the recording type wouldn't matter). Last time it did this, it took 3 weeks to get the recording to stick. After the first failure, I set the recording again, and checked it just before it was set to record, but then the recording never started. I set it a third time and it stuck. I think this could be related to the memory corruption problems that some people are having that causes lockups. I have also seen a recording that records normally for many weeks, and then is suddenly dropped.

Mark

I think that the dropping of scheduled to record a show either on a weekly,daily or regular basis was due more to the data stream updates. There was no real pattern that I could find to explain why I would lose one scheduled program over another. I went for months with weekily scheduled shows and no problems recording them. Then for other shows it was decided I did not really need to record them and would just drop them. This told me that it was programming ( either on purpose or in error) from TVGOS. And or it could have been in the transport of the updates getting corrupted somewhere along the path. But I truly beleive it was the first and not the later. Typically, only one or two channels had the problem of dropped schedules. Never was on all the channels, just certian ones. I seem to recall it happening more with CBS, some with NBC and ABC, but never with FOX or CW. But it has been a long time since all this occured and I no longer have my notes as to the frequency of drops and exact channels affected.
I do however think that now we are digital, things have improved somewhat.
Michael

I seem to recall it happening more with CBS, some with NBC and ABC, but never with FOX or CW.
Interesting, I keep losing the 8pm weekly showing of Cops on FOX. The 830pm showing is never lost. I've never lost any of the others.

Replying to get updates. I am subscribed to this thread but I never get emails. The email responses seem to run out for some reason.

I have two Radio Shack splitters (15-2506) that provide some amplification and make RF cables much easier to control. They are a store item and cost $50. It's much easier than trying to daisy-chain a VCR, DVR (2), DVD and TV. It uses a power supply and I use some 90 degree adapters also. Rated to 1000Mhz.

It works!! I went and bought the splitter you mention, wish it was cheaper, and hooked it up and all the channels are perfect. I am now a very happy 250 owner, it just took time. It is a highly recommended product for anyone who wants to split the cable to tv and dvr to watch one while recording another. Thank you so much for your help.

I have two Radio Shack splitters (15-2506) that provide some amplification and make RF cables much easier to control. They are a store item and cost $50. It's much easier than trying to daisy-chain a VCR, DVR (2), DVD and TV. It uses a power supply and I use some 90 degree adapters also. Rated to 1000Mhz.
Any recommendations for OTA amplifiers? I'm splitting mine 4 ways and can't get one of my local channels to come in.

Thanks

Any recommendations for OTA amplifiers? I'm splitting mine 4 ways and can't get one of my local channels to come in.

ThanksWell, for two, there's the aforemntioned RS amplified splitter, or the Kitz (as referenced in my prior post here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17188763#post17188763 .

Been out of town for a week. Come back to a --:-- on the display. The power went out sometime this week and to make matters worse the onscreen data is off for the local pbs station in Tulsa. So nothing recorded this week and now no data to set the clock correctly. Have to email the local pbs station and see whats up.

Let's look at the facts...

Your DVR acquired a host channel in about 90 days.

From this you conclude:
"MySonyBox should have its Grid back by October 1st. Within a 15 day cycle."

That is some real fuzzy math, alright. ;)

Your DVR has not established any kind of pattern to jump to that conclusion. You may have a grid by October first. You may have a grid by Halloween. You could have one tomorrow. Who knows?

Mark

Except that the Guideidle Id and SysidleId patterns went throught 3 sets of major changes in the last 15 days. However, now one has been completely dead and the other running about 1/8 speed. Still, if that pattern resumes, then perhaps the Grid will come back.

So it acquired HostChannel in less than 6 days with that pattern change, not 90 days.

Any recommendations for OTA amplifiers? I'm splitting mine 4 ways and can't get one of my local channels to come in.

Thanks

I wish I had an antenna! But I live in a small valley with mountains all around. That being said, the RS or Kitz are not smart enough to know if the signal comes from cable or antenna. The Kitz seems better, quality wise, and gives a bigger bang for the buck. Just keep it close to the antenna. Probably the best increase in signal level comes from using high quality RG-6 cables no matter what the source. And as has been mentioned here several times, splitting the signal splits the signal. Don't do it unless you want or need to reduce the signal levels, or have signal strength to spare.

Maybe we're getting off-topic for this forum? If so, I'm sorry.

Except that the Guideidle Id and SysidleId patterns went throught 3 sets of major changes in the last 15 days. However, now one has been completely dead and the other running about 1/8 speed. Still, if that pattern resumes, then perhaps the Grid will come back.

So it acquired HostChannel in less than 6 days with that pattern change, not 90 days.

I read your theory about the Guideidle Id, and Sysidle Id fields over on spiffspace (http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=204.msg1280#msg1280). There is only one problem with it. Tune to your host channel and then go into the 753 menu, and look at the "data rates" of those two fields. Now, exit the 753 menu, and change channels on the DVR to a non-TVGOS channel. Now go back into the 753 menu, and look at those two fields again. On my DVR there is no change in these "data rates". Those fields have nothing to do with incoming TVGOS data. They are in the Memory section of the 753 menu. This indicates to me some kind of internal processing going on. It could be the decoding of MPEG video frames for all I know.

I don't think that the ability to set the host channel has anything to do with how fast data comes into the DVR, but rather whether the data that comes in is the data the DVR needs. The DVR does have to acquire this data within the 4 day NumSearch cycle, or it starts the process over of trying to acquire the host channel. Here's my timezone packet "data rate" from this last week:

Day TZ Pkt Count
Mon 0
Tue 1
Wed 0
Thu 3
Fri 1
Sat 0
Sun 0
Total 5

As you can see the "data rate" of my timezone packets is pathetic, but so far it is good enough, to set my host channel, within 3 days. The reason I watch the timezone packets is that for quite awhile, my timezone packets have been the hold up in acquiring a host channel. Lately, though, I have seen the DVR waiting for two other packets that are now taking longer to acquire than a timezone packet.

Mark

I read your theory about the Guideidle Id, and Sysidle Id fields over on spiffspace (http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=204.msg1280#msg1280). There is only one problem with it. Tune to your host channel and then go into the 753 menu, and look at the "data rates" of those two fields. Now, exit the 753 menu, and change channels on the DVR to a non-TVGOS channel. Now go back into the 753 menu, and look at those two fields again. On my DVR there is no change in these "data rates". Those fields have nothing to do with incoming TVGOS data. They are in the Memory section of the 753 menu. This indicates to me some kind of internal processing going on. It could be the decoding of MPEG video frames for all I know.

I don't think that the ability to set the host channel has anything to do with how fast data comes into the DVR, but rather whether the data that comes in is the data the DVR needs. The DVR does have to acquire this data within the 4 day NumSearch cycle, or it starts the process over of trying to acquire the host channel. Here's my timezone packet "data rate" from this last week:

Day TZ Pkt Count
Mon 0
Tue 1
Wed 0
Thu 3
Fri 1
Sat 0
Sun 0
Total 5

As you can see the "data rate" of my timezone packets is pathetic, but so far it is good enough, to set my host channel, within 3 days. The reason I watch the timezone packets is that for quite awhile, my timezone packets have been the hold up in acquiring a host channel. Lately, though, I have seen the DVR waiting for two other packets that are now taking longer to acquire than a timezone packet.

Mark

So what does it mean that I get several TimeZonePkts per day? Where would my HostChannel be?

ALSO, one other strange thing: AFAIK, Houston is the only place where TimeZonePkts and StationPkts remaing the same "count" until it reaches upto and beyond 300 count..........then they become different. Why does that happen?

I read your theory about the Guideidle Id, and Sysidle Id fields over on spiffspace (http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=204.msg1280#msg1280). There is only one problem with it. Tune to your host channel and then go into the 753 menu, and look at the "data rates" of those two fields. Now, exit the 753 menu, and change channels on the DVR to a non-TVGOS channel. Now go back into the 753 menu, and look at those two fields again. On my DVR there is no change in these "data rates". Those fields have nothing to do with incoming TVGOS data. They are in the Memory section of the 753 menu. This indicates to me some kind of internal processing going on. It could be the decoding of MPEG video frames for all I know.



Mark

Specifically, it has no effect here! Does not matter if tuned to host channel or not. It remains the same. I am referring specifically to the patterns.

Been watching those fields for months. Plus during the "one" NumSearch cycle it has "stopped"

I read your theory about the Guideidle Id, and Sysidle Id fields over on spiffspace (http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=204.msg1280#msg1280).

I don't think that the ability to set the host channel has anything to do with how fast data comes into the DVR, but rather whether the data that comes in is the data the DVR needs.

Mark

We may be saying the same thing: It is the pattern combined with the rate, that IMO opinion is controlling IF the correct and complete data is coming into the box - hence no HostChannel if the data is super fast, it could be causing some sort of skipping or blanking out of the required data.

During the very brief time that my box did set HostChannel.......both rates and patterns changed significantly - and by that I do mean a major change.

Ever since the firmware upgrade and using the 'Artec jump start' method, when I'm in the 'Recordings' menu, it takes 3 or 4 seconds for a response when I try to scroll from one entry to another. Also, jumping ahead, or back while watching a recording has a slower response time. Using the Guide itself, to setup a record schedule on the other hand seems to be more responsive.

The other issue (which came to a head last night is while jumping ahead while watching a recording, the unit completely locked up. While this happened before, removing power and reapplying power solved the situation. BUT, this time when it rebooted the TVGOS portion did a full reset. Instead of just waiting a few seconds after the lockup, I let it go to see if it would recover by itself. It didn't.
I lost everything, other then the scheduled recordings (all showed in grey with a "???" afterwards). Before the so called upgrade, this never happened. Is there any other way to recover from a 'lock up' other than doing a power cycle??

Anyone else have these issues?

Well, for two, there's the aforemntioned RS amplified splitter, or the Kitz (as referenced in my prior post here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17188763#post17188763 .
Does the RS one work with OTA though, I thought it was for cable only?

Ever since the firmware upgrade and using the 'Artec jump start' method, when I'm in the 'Recordings' menu, it takes 3 or 4 seconds for a response when I try to scroll from one entry to another. Also, jumping ahead, or back while watching a recording has a slower response time. Using the Guide itself, to setup a record schedule on the other hand seems to be more responsive.

The other issue (which came to a head last night is while jumping ahead while watching a recording, the unit completely locked up. While this happened before, removing power and reapplying power solved the situation. BUT, this time when it rebooted the TVGOS portion did a full reset. Instead of just waiting a few seconds after the lockup, I let it go to see if it would recover by itself. It didn't.
I lost everything, other then the scheduled recordings (all showed in grey with a "???" afterwards). Before the so called upgrade, this never happened. Is there any other way to recover from a 'lock up' other than doing a power cycle??

Anyone else have these issues?
I'm curious to know, does anyone have their Artecs hooked up full time? I'd be curious to see if you did have them hooked up full time if some of the issues would be fixed?

So what does it mean that I get several TimeZonePkts per day? Where would my HostChannel be?


Timezone packets are only one of nine pieces of data the DVR is looking for. I used timezone packets in my example, since that is the data that seems to be in short supply here. Houston has 3 other pieces of data that apparently are being inconsistently sent out. That is why your host channel takes so long to set.


ALSO, one other strange thing: AFAIK, Houston is the only place where TimeZonePkts and StationPkts remaing the same "count" until it reaches upto and beyond 300 count..........then they become different. Why does that happen?

I don't know. Why do I get 3 timezone packets on some days, and 0 on other days? I don't know.

Mark

Just wanted to check in and irritate a few people by saying that my HDD500 has been getting complete guide data and working perfectly, with no glitches whatsoever, for over a month now (OTA - Chicago).

(Probably just jinxed myself by saying that, as it usually does work out that way.)

Just wanted to check in and irritate a few people by saying that my HDD500 has been getting complete guide data and working perfectly, with no glitches whatsoever, for over a month now (OTA - Chicago).

(Probably just jinxed myself by saying that, as it usually does work out that way.)
Did you do a reset or not have a grid prior, if so, how long did it take to come back?

Thanks

Does the RS one work with OTA though, I thought it was for cable only?

It works with both, have 3 of them, 2 (cascaded for cable) and 1 for Ant OTA

I posted a while back about the charter in STL dropping the analog channel from the digital feed for the tvguide. I decided to take the bait and upgrade the software to .21 for the digital guide. I converted one unit over last saturday (12th) and by sunday nite I had the complete 8 day guide from OTA CBS digital. I converted the other unite over on monday and it was not until last nite that I got the time finally set and this morning I had the complete 8 day guide. The ota host station is 24 which is CBS which it locks onto.

Charter is still broadcasting channel 94 for those that wish to stay on the analog.

One fluke happen that before I got the correct time, I was able to set the dvr time, accidently, (the time on the face plate) by hitting the select button on the dvr face while it was on and it was tuned to channel one. I was quite shocked but I cannot reproduced as I have the corrected time now. FWIW. But there maybe something there for someone to fiddle with.

HDAddiction

Anyone know if cable sends out the TVGOS info over QAM channels?

Did you do a reset or not have a grid prior, if so, how long did it take to come back?

ThanksI never lost my grid when they shut down the analogs. I did the G* test at first, and lost the listings once after a couple of weeks, due to either a power outage or the host channel not coming in steadily (it was sporadic for awhile during the heat of the summer, but it's solid again now).

I re-did the G* test, and it's been good ever since.

I never did the update - that's probably why I never lost the grid.

Anyone know if cable sends out the TVGOS info over QAM channels?If your OTA broadcaster offers TVGOS, then many (but not all) cable companies pass that information over the corresponding QAM.

I recovered from a (unintentional) full reset to full (8 day) listings in 2 1/2 days using nothing other then a Artec CECB with NO other steps (zip codes changes, etc.).

Disconnected antenna feed (CATV feed left connected),
Connected Artec CECB in line with antenna input (which was already setup as a TVGOS pass through on the host sub channel),
Waited between 12-16 hours for the provider choice (which I only confirmed) and grid,
Disconnected box and reconnected antenna input as normal,
Reorganized/renumbered the channels (CATV digital channels are all wrong in this market),
Waited another 36 hours (or so) and checked to see the whole nine yards. :eek: All 8 days were populated.

I even show a 'host channel' and I'm getting packet counts from the 'ATSC Slicer' screen. No counts on the 'Reception' page though. Too bad I can't make any sense of any of this, since none of this seems to make sense. :confused:

These were taken directly after I removed the Artec:

Does the RS one work with OTA though, I thought it was for cable only?

According to the RS web site:

{ Features

Distributes antenna signals
}
I guess it does. You can probably return it should it not help. My "Shack" is very friendly.

Anyone know if cable sends out the TVGOS info over QAM channels?

My TVGOS V8 comes on channel 15, C-SPAN. Cable-Satellite Public Access Channel. No OTA channel feeds on my cable supplier have host data, and I get known TVGOS channels, like KYW from Philly but with no packets.

Just power it on and let it find a host. In my experience you should know in 24 hours. No special channel, no codes, and I have had 100% functionality for TWO MONTHS on three DHD units, including having to rescan due to channel renumbering. One was powered off for two weeks but came up to 100% in 8 hours.

Ever since the firmware upgrade and using the 'Artec jump start' method, when I'm in the 'Recordings' menu, it takes 3 or 4 seconds for a response when I try to scroll from one entry to another. Also, jumping ahead, or back while watching a recording has a slower response time. Using the Guide itself, to setup a record schedule on the other hand seems to be more responsive.

The other issue (which came to a head last night is while jumping ahead while watching a recording, the unit completely locked up. While this happened before, removing power and reapplying power solved the situation. BUT, this time when it rebooted the TVGOS portion did a full reset. Instead of just waiting a few seconds after the lockup, I let it go to see if it would recover by itself. It didn't.
I lost everything, other then the scheduled recordings (all showed in grey with a "???" afterwards). Before the so called upgrade, this never happened. Is there any other way to recover from a 'lock up' other than doing a power cycle??

Anyone else have these issues?


Look at your information screens (may need to do this 2 or 3 times in a day).

Find the "Section Memory-Heap Info" screen.

IMO:

If "Allocated=Used Blocks" you should not have lock ups (different than slow remote response).

If "Allocated not= Used Blocks" you will have hard lock ups - requiring unplug for a 2-5 min to release but that will not fix the problem.

Thanks. maybe those memory screens are of some use after all.
I added screen shots to the above post.

... Distributes antenna signals

The salient difference between OTA and cable amplifiers (or amplified spliters) is bi-directionality. Things like cable modems, on demand cable boxes and cable cards need the upstream channels in order to function. It would be a bad thing to use a bi-directional amplifier directly connected to an antenna. The antenna can, of course, be isolated by a unidirectional amplifier.

Some of you are saying leave the unit on, while others are saying leave the unit off to find the host channel. Which is it?

... unit on ... unit off ... Which is it?

It depends. In the best of all worlds, you are OTA only, have someone here tell you what your host should be, and have upgraded to .21 software. In this case, your best path is to tune to that channel and leave it on. This works best because you maximize the time your DHG is feeding on the TVGOS data stream. You don't have to worry about whether the DHG is actually listening to the digital data, because with OTA and .21 software, this just happens.

In other circumstances, leaving your DHG on could mean that your DHG is never listening to TVGOS data. If you don't know what your host should be, you certainly want to leave it off. Leaving it on while tuned to a channel without TVGOS data means you have no chance of receiving TVGOS data.

If you are trying to establish a cable host, you may have to run the G* test, failing or no, to get your DHG to begin processing digital data.

There are lots of possibilities, but the short answer is: If you intend to leave it on, check the 753... screen three down from the initial 753... screen to verify that you are actually listening to data.

If all of this is too much, leave it off. It's not the fastest path, but it is the surest.

Hello All, I just wanted to post that my TVGOS guide came back this weekend and reformatting the drive seems to have fixed the recording issues. I think it took about about 8 days total. Some of the channel lineup is on channels that are a bit different, but other than that it seems to be working as good as new.

Thanks everyone for helping me be patient.

Larry

Some of you are saying leave the unit on, while others are saying leave the unit off to find the host channel. Which is it?

In my case, I had no data no grid after I upgraded to .21. I left it all forever (couple of days) and the downstairs got the clock that afternoon. In the stl market I guess they only send the timezone packet once a week. After I got the time, the next morning I have the complete guide.

The upstairs unit did'nt get the time zone packet till sat and the clock was set shortly afterwards and the grid filled in the next morning. It was off for atleast 5 days.

I ca'nt vouch for others, but after I upgraded to .21 I left my units off till I got the clock and the grid appeared the next morning.

YMMV.

HDAddiction

Has anyone else noticed strange behavior when using a universal remote with these units?

This has happened to me twice. First time I was using a cheap One 4 All remote (first universal I could get to work with it). I finally got a working code and was checking the function of all buttons and I pressed either the mute or the last channel button and the Sony flipped out. I got an immediate hard drive error and the unit rebooted. Lost clock and guide and took some time to recover.

I thought this was an isolated incident, but I got a Harmony remote this week and while checking functions, I pressed the mute button. Immediate hard drive error and reset, which totally sucks for me since I'm in Atlanta and our guide data is not being broadcast for the foreseeable future...I now have a clock that is about an hour behind so manual recordings for the start of the new season are going to be difficult....

Has anyone else had anything like this happen?

Also, (and this may be a dumb question), but why, during a quick reset like this, does the clock come back as off as it does? Seems like it could recover the time that was set before the issue....at least it would only be a few minutes off at that point.

I've been using a Harmony 720 with my HDD250 for around 3 years with no problems. My Mute button is programmed to mute my Receiver when I'm using the DVR. I have "last channel" programmed on the "Prev" button on the Harmony. All I can say is I don't think your problems are universal. It could be your particular Sony box, or something odd about your the programming of your remote.

Good Luck

Dan (Woj...)

I've been using a Harmony 720 with my HDD250 for around 3 years with no problems. My Mute button is programmed to mute my Receiver when I'm using the DVR. I have "last channel" programmed on the "Prev" button on the Harmony. All I can say is I don't think your problems are universal. It could be your particular Sony box, or something odd about your the programming of your remote.

Good Luck

Dan (Woj...)

Must be my Sony then....it does this with multiple universal remotes.

I've since removed all function from those buttons when controlling the Sony, so it's all good now, but it's just strange that a single remote button press can induce an immediate hard drive error/recovery process.

Some of you are saying leave the unit on, while others are saying leave the unit off to find the host channel. Which is it?
I live in Phoenix, and just recently noticed that the guide started populating (sometime this weekend). I have left mine off. I've been using it to record only occasionally. Before this weekend, I had no channel list or guide data (and the HOST ID on the diagnostic page was blank). Now I have guide data and the HOST ID is something like 0:8-0. This seemed strange since it appears to be an analog channel. I was expecting to see 0:8-1 (this is what my clock channel is reporting).

The guide data does appear a little wonky. I seemed to get full guide data for 24 hours. Then guide data extends out 7 - days for only about 3 channels. The reset of the channels say no-listing (or something to that affect).

I live in Phoenix, and just recently noticed that the guide started populating (sometime this weekend). I have left mine off. I've been using it to record only occasionally. Before this weekend, I had no channel list or guide data (and the HOST ID on the diagnostic page was blank). Now I have guide data and the HOST ID is something like 0:8-0. This seemed strange since it appears to be an analog channel. I was expecting to see 0:8-1 (this is what my clock channel is reporting).

The guide data does appear a little wonky. I seemed to get full guide data for 24 hours. Then guide data extends out 7 - days for only about 3 channels. The reset of the channels say no-listing (or something to that affect).
BTW I upgraded to verserion .21 firmware

It depends. In the best of all worlds, you are OTA only, have someone here tell you what your host should be, and have upgraded to .21 software. In this case, your best path is to tune to that channel and leave it on. This works best because you maximize the time your DHG is feeding on the TVGOS data stream. You don't have to worry about whether the DHG is actually listening to the digital data, because with OTA and .21 software, this just happens.

In other circumstances, leaving your DHG on could mean that your DHG is never listening to TVGOS data. If you don't know what your host should be, you certainly want to leave it off. Leaving it on while tuned to a channel without TVGOS data means you have no chance of receiving TVGOS data.

If you are trying to establish a cable host, you may have to run the G* test, failing or no, to get your DHG to begin processing digital data.

There are lots of possibilities, but the short answer is: If you intend to leave it on, check the 753... screen three down from the initial 753... screen to verify that you are actually listening to data.

If all of this is too much, leave it off. It's not the fastest path, but it is the surest.

In my case, I had no data no grid after I upgraded to .21. I left it all forever (couple of days)
You left it on or off?

I live in Phoenix, and just recently noticed that the guide started populating (sometime this weekend). I have left mine off. I've been using it to record only occasionally. Before this weekend, I had no channel list or guide data (and the HOST ID on the diagnostic page was blank). Now I have guide data and the HOST ID is something like 0:8-0. This seemed strange since it appears to be an analog channel. I was expecting to see 0:8-1 (this is what my clock channel is reporting).

The guide data does appear a little wonky. I seemed to get full guide data for 24 hours. Then guide data extends out 7 - days for only about 3 channels. The reset of the channels say no-listing (or something to that affect).
Thanks for the responses.

REWAT, are you OTA only or do you have OTA and cable?

I have two 500's. One of them got reset somehow and I lost grid about a week ago. I am OTA, but have cable internet and can get some cable QAM channels to come in, one being PBS, which broadcasts the TVGOS info. All of the analog channels are blocked by the filter on the cable line.

If I try leaving it on, do I leave it on over night, during the day, or does it matter?

So I'm guessing since its only been a week that I need to get it more time?

Thanks

The salient difference between OTA and cable amplifiers (or amplified spliters) is bi-directionality. Things like cable modems, on demand cable boxes and cable cards need the upstream channels in order to function. It would be a bad thing to use a bi-directional amplifier directly connected to an antenna. The antenna can, of course, be isolated by a unidirectional amplifier.

I never thought of that. I've only seen two outside antennae in my hamlet. One is my FM and the other is on a 50 foot mast on top of a very tall house. Yet there is a lot of cable leekage. I did an antenna scan once and found a dozen signals. If I had an outside antenna I would not choose the Shack unit myself. I don't have a cable box or card so sending stuff down to them isn't an issue for me.

I never lost my grid when they shut down the analogs. I did the G* test at first, and lost the listings once after a couple of weeks, due to either a power outage or the host channel not coming in steadily (it was sporadic for awhile during the heat of the summer, but it's solid again now).

I re-did the G* test, and it's been good ever since.

I never did the update - that's probably why I never lost the grid.

No, you never lost your grid because you didn't reset your DVR, or have a serious lockup/crash that wiped it for you. The upgrade does not wipe the grid. However there may be an isolated case where the grid was lost when upgrading, just as before the .21 firmware was released, I lost the grid twice just doing the soft reset from the front panel, and others have lost the grid when they had a power outage. None of these examples are normal, but they do happen.

The problem is that after losing the grid, people upgrade to the .21 firmware as a last resort to try to get it back. When the .21 firmware doesn't get them a grid (because they either don't wait long enough, or the data is bad in their area), they then show up here, reporting that they upgraded to the .21 firmware but now don't have a grid. This leaves people with the impression that the upgrade wiped the grid. A couple of months ago, I quizzed 2 of these people who posted these ambiguous messages about whether the upgrade had wiped their grid or not, one couldn't remember whether they had a grid before the upgrade, and another person said that they hadn't had a grid since June 12 (before they upgraded).

Mark

No, you never lost your grid because you didn't reset your DVR, or have a serious lockup/crash that wiped it for you.That either.

[B]TVOS Not working in SW Florida[I]

Just letting everybody know WINK has not been sending out guide data since Sat. I e-mailed the station and are now aware of the situation.

The salient difference between OTA and cable amplifiers (or amplified spliters) is bi-directionality. Things like cable modems, on demand cable boxes and cable cards need the upstream channels in order to function. It would be a bad thing to use a bi-directional amplifier directly connected to an antenna. The antenna can, of course, be isolated by a unidirectional amplifier.

Please let me differ.
The FCC requires that consumer devices with tuners designed to be connected to an antenna do not emit any (spurious) radiation that can travel back out to the antenna.

Hence, using a bi-directional splitter does not cause any harm. If the consumer device re-radiates, the signal would travel out with or without the splitter.

Even so, (from the R/S user manual)
• Never connect both an outdoor antenna and the output from the amplifier to the antenna input of your TV or VCR without using a high isolation A/V switch. Doing so could cause interference with other nearby receiversand from the spec sheet:
Reverse Path
Operating frequency range ............................5 – 40 MHz
Insertion loss.............................................8dBSo this splitter actually attenuates any radiation from the Sony HDD device by 8DB

I use one of these for antenna reception and 2 others for cable. Bi-directional is required for my TivoHD with a tuning adapter to function. The tuning adapter must be able send data upstream to request an SDV channel.

You left it on or off?


Thanks for the responses.

REWAT, are you OTA only or do you have OTA and cable?

I have two 500's. One of them got reset somehow and I lost grid about a week ago. I am OTA, but have cable internet and can get some cable QAM channels to come in, one being PBS, which broadcasts the TVGOS info. All of the analog channels are blocked by the filter on the cable line.

If I try leaving it on, do I leave it on over night, during the day, or does it matter?

So I'm guessing since its only been a week that I need to get it more time?

Thanks
I have a 250 and am strictly OTA. I lost guide data almost immediately after the Digital transition. I have a DTV-pal that gets guide data. It had been receiving guide data for several months (even though the Sony wasn't).

One thing I had been doing is tuning the channel to the PBS channel (channel 8 in Phoenix), before I turned it off. I don't know if this helped or not.

Last night I still only had full guide data for 24 hours (all the channels in the line-up), and only sporadic data for the next 6 days.

I have two units, both OTA. One never had issues, the other lost listings and clock. The only cure was a full reset (including all recordings) and re upgrade to .21. The unit, which sat dead for three weeks suddenly came back to life and is now 100%. (I'm in NYC, and the fact the other unit never glitched made me sure it was "me".)

I'd not buy other boxes until I began at the zero option. Here in NY full recovery took 24 hours...done.

No more TVGO in Oklahoma until Rovi fixes the problems with the converter box interference. OETA has shut the Onscreen off until it is fixed. It is interfering with OETA's signal on certain converter boxes. I just moved 2 weeks ago and with power outages from storms yesterday, I now have a clock that is several hours off making mine a glorified tv tuner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdaddiction View Post
In my case, I had no data no grid after I upgraded to .21. I left it all forever (couple of days)
You left it on or off?


Off...Sorry.....LOL

I have a Sony DHG-HDD250 and did the 2009 firmware upgrade so TV Guide now works with digital channels.

However, although most channels appear fine, one channel (KSL 5.1, NBC) always says "no signal", even though my HDTV can tune to that channel just fine. This channel worked until a few months ago, then stopped working except in analog mode (i.e., channel "5", not "5.1"); then after the firmware upgrade, even the analog channel is gone. That makes it so we can't record "The Office".

Any ideas on why one channel would refuse to tune in?

Any ideas on why one channel would refuse to tune in?The Sonys have tuners that are at least 4 years obsolete, and they don't handle weak signals or signals with multipath interference very well.

I have a Sony DHG-HDD250 and did the 2009 firmware upgrade so TV Guide now works with digital channels.

However, although most channels appear fine, one channel (KSL 5.1, NBC) always says "no signal", even though my HDTV can tune to that channel just fine. This channel worked until a few months ago, then stopped working except in analog mode (i.e., channel "5", not "5.1"); then after the firmware upgrade, even the analog channel is gone. That makes it so we can't record "The Office".

Any ideas on why one channel would refuse to tune in?

You need to know the physical channel number for "5.1". Then you can probably tune to it directly. Otherwise, do a channel scan to "add channels". :)

I have a Sony DHG-HDD250 and did the 2009 firmware upgrade so TV Guide now works with digital channels.

However, although most channels appear fine, one channel (KSL 5.1, NBC) always says "no signal", even though my HDTV can tune to that channel just fine. This channel worked until a few months ago, then stopped working except in analog mode (i.e., channel "5", not "5.1"); then after the firmware upgrade, even the analog channel is gone. That makes it so we can't record "The Office".

Any ideas on why one channel would refuse to tune in?

You need to know the physical channel number for "5.1". Then you can probably tune to it directly. Otherwise, do a channel scan to "add channels". :)

According to http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php, KSL 5.1 is on physical channel 38.3. So enter 38.3, and see if it comes in. If it does, then you need to do another channel scan.

Mark

I have a Sony DHG-HDD250 and did the 2009 firmware upgrade so TV Guide now works with digital channels.

However, although most channels appear fine, one channel (KSL 5.1, NBC) always says "no signal", even though my HDTV can tune to that channel just fine. This channel worked until a few months ago, then stopped working except in analog mode (i.e., channel "5", not "5.1"); then after the firmware upgrade, even the analog channel is gone. That makes it so we can't record "The Office".

Any ideas on why one channel would refuse to tune in?1) Have you done a re-scan since the transition in June?

2) If so and it still isn't coming up, try just entering 38.1 or 38.3 to see if you can tune 5.1 that way.

It's possible they replaced their antenna in June with a directional one that doesn't transmit in your direction.

There hasn't been an analog KSL on channel 5 since June, so I have no idea what you mean by "except in analog mode" (unless somehow they got FCC permission to keep broadcasting analog temporarily.)

In order to save space I'm going to list my previous post and the replies to it.

My previous post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17206147&postcount=18818

WS65711's reply:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17206553&postcount=18819

Mabuttra's reply:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17206708&postcount=18820

avnstf's reply:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17207546&postcount=18823

I first want to say that I never said that the sony dhg couldn't do digital downloads, I said it couldn't fully read the TVG1 stream:
The problem you guys are having is because your version 8 can not fully read the TVG1 data stream and is mainly running off the Mpeg Leagacy Stream.

If the claim you guys are making about data missing in the TVG1 data stream in certain markets is true, then it will effect the version 9 and now the version 10 guides the same way. But there is no complaints in any of the half dozen or so of TVGOS threads that are running on this forum. And there should be at least some complaints because it involves some pretty large cities like houston, san francisco, los angeles, etc., and there should be a lot of version 9's in use in those places.
This is the reason why I think the problem soley lays with your dvr and the patch that sony supplied to you. It is not data that is missing, it is your dvr is missing the data in the stream that is needed to build a grid or to recover if the guide is lost.

Here is my theory on what is happening.
When you turn the device off after a complete reset it starts to look for a TVGOS data stream. It will lock onto that stream and keep running, like the G test does, until it finds all the data it needs to build a grid.
Note:It is my opinion that your dvr is decoding the digitized legecy stream to get the data it needs to build a grid.
Then when the user turns on the device and selects a channel line up then the download schedule comes into play. In this case it will be a 5307 digital download schedule that uses TVG1.
Note: Both the digitized legecy stream and TVG1 will give you a digital download schedule as per the explanation from the links in my previous post.
The only time I figure that the sony uses TVG1 is for listings downloads.

When the dvr loses its grid the dvr starts to look for the missing pieces to restore it but can not find it in the TVG1 data stream because the data is in the legecy stream. The big problem is since you have a digital download schedule the dvr is looking in the legecy stream at the wrong time for the data that it needs. So after three days the dvr drops the legecy stream and looks in the TVG1 stream but can't find what it needs so it then switches back to legecy stream after another three days. Also on top of this the amount of time the user has the dvr in use and for how long, has to be factored in also to help explain the varying lengths of time for the grid to recover. Also it may explain the shortage of time zone and zip code packets.
For reference I checked both of my version 9 kuro's and I am getting about 631 zip code packets/day and 36 time zone packets/day. Since september sixth I got 10099 zip code packets and 574 time zone packets in 16 days.

When both my tvs, version 8 RCA DLP and version 9 Pioneer 5010, where running on analog downloads, both tvs would consistently take about the same amount of time to recover from a complete reset which would be between 2 to 3 days. After the analog shutdown in february my RCA has been gridless and my version 9 picked up the digital host after three days.
Note: I am using KYW HD for my digital host and zip code 18101. My DMA, Wilkes Barre/Scranton, has no inserter. My cable company, Service Electric, carries the philly broadcast stations along with the Wilkes Barre/Scanton broadcast stations on my lineup.

I have done dozens of full factory resets on my version 9 since february for testing purposes and I have consistent results all the time. It takes about 3 hours for me to get a full eight day guide. The only time I can't get a grid quickly is in the evening. I reset the tv about 8:00pm and then checked at 9:30pm and had nothing, not even a clock set. I shut the tv off and checked at 11:30pm and still nothing. I watched tv until 12:45am and turned it off and checked again at 1:30am and I had to select a channel lineup and edit all my 200 channels. I turned it off at about 2:00am and then checked at 3:15am and had a complete 8 days of listings.
Note: TVG1 stops at 5:26pm and doesn't start up again until 12:51am. So if your guide is using TVG1 you shouldn't get any info in the evening, not even a clock set.
I also did the 00000 zipcode reset a couple of weeks ago and I recovered in 2 hours.

The reason why I said to drop the patch is to see if anybody can produce a consistent result over and over again. Then try the patch and see if you get the same result. You also have to lose your grid to see if you can consistently recover your grid back. Remember the key word is consistency. Also remember that your dvr was consistent when it was on analog downloads when using OTA or cable or both.
Those of you that have the converter boxes try leaving them hooked up for a couple of weeks to see if you get consistent results. Even wipe your grid out and see how the dvr recovers.
Note: To wipe out your grid put 00000 for your zip code and then turn the dvr off for 15 minutes. Then turn on the dvr and put your normal zip code back in and then turn off your dvr for about three hours. You should have your channel lineup by then.

The final thing is what Rovicorp said about updating the version 8 guides to do digital downloads. I am not disputing that it can be done but the patch sony gave you guys was never tested to see if it actually works or works properly.
Here is a link to the post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16880101&postcount=18342
Here is the two key sentences that you must pay attention to:
The patch updated the software to 8.1.71 which should be able to use digital data.

Sony went ahead with the upgrade without it first being tested by our engineers so we are unable support whether or not the the patch will work for receiving our data or not..

And the quote that puts your dvr in a proverbial TVGOS blackhole:
Since we are unable to support the Sony patch, all we can do is verify that data is passing in the area. Until we get approval to support the Sony patch, we are unable to troubleshoot issues with the Sony DVR, other than verifying data passage.

I deeply apologize if I missed any details because my mind moves far faster then my fingers can type.:o

Jed1...well, despite your long post, I don't see ANY indication that your theory of everything is supported by ANY evidence that the Sony uses the OTA legacy stream at ALL...(unless it is converted by a Pal or gets the data from a cable system that is itself converting the legacy stream...)

just my opinion - Tony :)

(we DO know, of course, that in some markets - like my own - the Sony does not find a host channel OTA, and - at least in these markets - losing the lineup can leave the Sony in a state where it is unable to regain the lineup AND in such markets, the Pal can be used to regain the lineup, thus booting the Sony to a state where it can get the program listings digitally - which I helped someone do over the weekend by lending him the Pal that I use for my LG3410a - and that I have previously tested successfully, albeit briefly, with the Sony)

Jed1...well, despite your long post, I don't see ANY indication that your theory of everything is supported by ANY evidence that the Sony uses the OTA legacy stream at ALL...(unless it is converted by a Pal or gets the data from a cable system that is itself converting the legacy stream...)

just my opinion - Tony :)

(we DO know, of course, that in some markets - like my own - the Sony does not find a host channel OTA, and - at least in these markets - losing the lineup can leave the Sony in a state where it is unable to regain the lineup AND in such markets, the Pal can be used to regain the lineup, thus booting the Sony to a state where it can get the program listings digitally - which I helped someone do over the weekend by lending him the Pal that I use for my LG3410a - and that I have previously tested successfully, albeit briefly, with the Sony)

Hi Tony,
Here is the process that I went through with my RCA DLP version 08.01.44 from a post in the TVGOS thread:
Note: This was done on physical cable channel 114-1 which is KYW HD. Also my cable company can not convert the legecy stream.

I was doing some testing (running the G test)with my RCA Scenium HD50LPW175YX1 with version 8 (08.01.44) and using my Pioneer Kuro 5010 with version 9 (09.01.46) for comparison, and I came up with a startling observation. My RCA can read the Mpeg legacy stream.
I tried to run the factory test during the TVG1 download period, 12:51am-5:26pm, and soon as the test started about 50 packets in 2 seconds would show up then the tv would freeze up, shutdown, and restart setting the guide back to factory default.
If I run the factory test after TVG1 downloads, 5:26pm-12:51am, It would pass both the VBI test and ATSC test and start downloading about 4 packets a second. It set the internal clock to UTC and also set the offset time, set the clock channel, but not the host channel, and after about 15 minutes I got a 5307 download schedule. I only got zip code packets and download schedule packets and nothing else. for the whole time. I tried night after night and got the same results.
Also, at every quarter of the hour and quarter after the hour for one minute, something would cause the tv to do the same thing when TVG1 was running, Freeze up, shutdown, restart, setting the guide back to factory defaults. So I have to stop the test at those times and then restart it after the one minute has passed.
NOTE: My version 9 using TVG1 has a packet rate of about 30 packets a second.

TVG1 doesn't run in the evening an TVG2 isn't in use yet so that leaves the Mpeg legacy stream, which is an exact Mpeg digital copy of the TV Guide 2x VBI waveform.

................
This is the reason why I think the problem soley lays with your dvr and the patch that sony supplied to you. It is not data that is missing, it is your dvr is missing the data in the stream that is needed to build a grid or to recover if the guide is lost..........................


Oh, I understand now. It's that the Sony DVR's where mabuttra lives will build a Grid in 3 days, so those DVR's "miss the data" less than the DVR's where I live (since mine takes 3 to 6 days). And DVR's in Houston miss the data for some undetermined period approaching infinity? So what do you think would happen if mabuttra and HoustonPerson and myself were to swap DVR's with each other. Will the problem travel with the DVR, or will it remain in the user's city? :confused:

Oh, I understand now. It's that the Sony DVR's where mabuttra lives will build a Grid in 3 days, so those DVR's "miss the data" less than the DVR's where I live (since mine takes 3 to 6 days). And DVR's in Houston miss the data for some undetermined period approaching infinity? So what do you think would happen if mabuttra and HoustonPerson and myself were to swap DVR's with each other. Will the problem travel with the DVR, or will it remain in the user's city? :confused:

The problem should stay in the same city.

There has been some mild and perhaps unproven notations made in the past, that different originaly shipped units with the .05 .06 and .09 firmware respond differently; that is some users that have two or more units with different original firmware.

With that said, I do not believe those different orginal firmwares have anything to do with different Cities responding different as to when and if they are able to really get a true digitial HostChannel on their own.

it is your dvr is missing the data in the stream that is needed to build a grid or to recover if the guide is lost.Agreed. The device is receiving the information, but doesn't know what to do with it. Some type of 'event' isn't being triggered to start the proces Using the 'Artec jump start' does trigger this event. Once the grid shows, the listings follow without the CECB.
I hesitate using the term 'simple', but one would think this 'event' that isn't happening without a TVGOS CECB could be narrowed down and dealt with.Since we are unable to support the Sony patch, all we can do is verify that data is passing in the area. Until we get approval to support the Sony patch, we are unable to troubleshoot issues with the Sony DVR, other than verifying data passage.Didn't Rovi and Sony have some recent deal together?

.... The device is receiving the information, but doesn't know what to do with it.....................

But this doesn't explain why devices in some areas of the country seem to "know what to do with it" while devices in other areas of the country apparently do not. :confused:

Does anyone who has lost TVGOS know if the parental control feature still works? I know now that close caption works as it is a real time function and not embedded in TVGOS. If no one has, then I will look into this evening and post on what I find.
Michael

WS65711; Yes, I understand. When I was first able to actually talk with someone from Macrovision (at the time) he first reconfirmed my local PBS host's data was correct after the chief engineer confirmed this through Marcrovision doing a remote monitoring test that they have the ability to do.
He also confirmed that TWC's SCTE127 channel was up and running (at the time that was working).
I was able to actually have numerous phone calls with him through Mits trouble ticket that I started at the beginning of the year. Mits CS was unable to help me. The 'kids' in the California office, other than the welcome lack of a dialect, weren't any more informed than their overseas counterparts. They all probably read from the same 'canned' scripts.

He has still never talked to any Mits owner that has a working TVGOS, excpet possible myself with the help of the Artec CECB and he repeats the part about the Sony firmware not being tested unlike the Mits firmware that was tested.

I said this some time ago, how can it work in some areas and not others? Rovi claims to have the ability to monitor the output of the local host's data stream to confirm all is well. If there is some difference, why don't/can't they see it?

it is your dvr is missing the data in the stream that is needed to build a grid or to recover if the guide is lost.


Agreed. The device is receiving the information, but doesn't know what to do with it. Some type of 'event' isn't being triggered to start the proces Using the 'Artec jump start' does trigger this event. Once the grid shows, the listings follow without the CECB.
I hesitate using the term 'simple', but one would think this 'event' that isn't happening without a TVGOS CECB could be narrowed down and dealt with.Didn't Rovi and Sony have some recent deal together?

How would the DVR miss something in the stream? My take is that the stream is either missing elements or some of the data is corrupted in the encoding process or dowm the transmission line. The only way to ascertain any of this would be if somehow I could receive the ota signal from the troubled city and feed it to one of my units whcih is known to be good.
It is a shame that Gemstar/Macrovision/Rovi did not set up some sort of testing/verifing network in select cites to see if what they sent out matched what is being received.Sure would solve a host of problems.
Michael

Maybe 'missing' isn't the right word. How about 'ignoring'? As in, not knowing that that is the trigger point to display a 'grid'.
Why and how is the CECB the missing link?

WS65711; Yes, I understand. When I was first able to actually talk with someone from Macrovision (at the time) he first reconfirmed my local PBS host's data was correct after the chief engineer confirmed this through Marcrovision doing a remote monitoring test that they have the ability to do.
He also confirmed that TWC's SCTE127 channel was up and running (at the time that was working).
I said this some time ago, how can it work in some areas and not others? Rovi claims to have the ability to monitor the output of the local host's data stream to confirm all is well. If there is some difference, why don't/can't they see it?

Well, if they are truely doing remote monitoring, then why have they not let it be widely known? And what is their definiton of remote? At the station? Before or after the encoder/antenna transmitter? Or at a house or houses OTA? How far away from the host? These all are a factor in the quality of the received stream. So many variables involved. And if they are indeed doing end point monitoring, then why not allow us, the user, the equipment to troubleshoot with? Seems like a no brainer. Too simple?
Michael

I was told by the station engineer and Rovi that (at least this station) had the ability to monitor the output of the xmitter (off air signal) regarding the TVGOS data stream. I'm not sure if that applies to all 'host' stations, but I assume it does. (note the emphasis)why not allow us, the user, the equipment to troubleshoot withProprietary information. After all, they are/were Macrovision. ;)

Except under the worse seriano, as long as the station is viewable with no, or little brakup, I very much doubt signal condition has much to do with it. The TS has a hell of alot more data that would/could get corrupted and if that is clean, I wouldn't worry about the small stream from Rovi. BUT, not having enough understanding about that stream, I could be off base.

I was told by the station engineer and Rovi that (at least this station) had the ability to monitor the output of the xmitter (off air signal) regarding the TVGOS data stream. I'm not sure if that applies to all 'host' stations, but I assume it does. (note the emphasis)Proprietary information. After all, they are/were Macrovision. ;)

Except under the worse seriano, as long as the station is viewable with no, or little brakup, I very much doubt signal condition has much to do with it. The TS has a hell of alot more data that would/could get corrupted and if that is clean, I wouldn't worry about the small stream from Rovi. BUT, not having enough understanding about that stream, I could be off base.
Too many enviromental factors to ignore that if one area of town or the country is having some problems, then in order to trouble shoot the problem correctly, it would be to test at the problem site and therefore eliminate the received transmission as the problem. Yes, they are proprietary, but both stupid and arrogant if they do not do this step. But what do I know, I must be living in the stone age of business where people actually took the time to fully investigate and fix a problem. To get to the source and understand why and what causes the problem in the first place. Only then, can any real progress be made in long term repairs.
Michael

[...]
If the claim you guys are making about data missing in the TVG1 data stream in certain markets is true, then it will effect the version 9 and now the version 10 guides the same way. But there is no complaints in any of the half dozen or so of TVGOS threads that are running on this forum. And there should be at least some complaints because it involves some pretty large cities like houston, san francisco, los angeles, etc., and there should be a lot of version 9's in use in those places.
This is the reason why I think the problem soley lays with your dvr and the patch that sony supplied to you. It is not data that is missing, it is your dvr is missing the data in the stream that is needed to build a grid or to recover if the guide is lost.


Something that I've never been able to find out is if the TVG1 data stream contains separate data for V8, V9, and V10 devices, or do they all use the same data? If they are separate, it makes sense to me that the V8 data could be missing pieces while the V9, and V10 data are complete.


Here is my theory on what is happening.
When you turn the device off after a complete reset it starts to look for a TVGOS data stream. It will lock onto that stream and keep running, like the G test does, until it finds all the data it needs to build a grid.
Note:It is my opinion that your dvr is decoding the digitized legecy stream to get the data it needs to build a grid.
Then when the user turns on the device and selects a channel line up then the download schedule comes into play. In this case it will be a 5307 digital download schedule that uses TVG1.
Note: Both the digitized legecy stream and TVG1 will give you a digital download schedule as per the explanation from the links in my previous post.
The only time I figure that the sony uses TVG1 is for listings downloads.


I'm with you so far. I won't question whether the Sony gets a grid from the legacy stream or TVG1 stream, because I have no way of knowing that for sure. Are you saying that we should have 2 download schedules (1 legacy, and 1 TVG1)? Because I only have one. Why can the sony easily read the TVG1 to get listings, but can't read it for the other data?


When the dvr loses its grid the dvr starts to look for the missing pieces to restore it but can not find it in the TVG1 data stream because the data is in the legecy stream. The big problem is since you have a digital download schedule the dvr is looking in the legecy stream at the wrong time for the data that it needs. So after three days the dvr drops the legecy stream and looks in the TVG1 stream but can't find what it needs so it then switches back to legecy stream after another three days.


I think you're getting ahead of yourself here. I don't think the download schedule is used at all until you have a host channel, and a grid. That is the only time the DLTimer, and LastDLStart fields start getting updated, and the download history screens start getting filled in. Also the 3 day cycle you describe is actually 4.5 days if the host channel isn't set. It is possible that the Sony is trying to find data in two different places, which would cause it to miss some of it. However, as others have pointed out, the data that my sony receives successfully here, is missed in other places around the country. While certain data packets that are infrequent here, are received in large numbers elsewhere. This is why I still contend that there is definitely a difference in the data that is sent out here, and the data that is sent out in other places.


[...]
I have done dozens of full factory resets on my version 9 since february for testing purposes and I have consistent results all the time. It takes about 3 hours for me to get a full eight day guide. The only time I can't get a grid quickly is in the evening. I reset the tv about 8:00pm and then checked at 9:30pm and had nothing, not even a clock set. I shut the tv off and checked at 11:30pm and still nothing. I watched tv until 12:45am and turned it off and checked again at 1:30am and I had to select a channel lineup and edit all my 200 channels. I turned it off at about 2:00am and then checked at 3:15am and had a complete 8 days of listings.
Note: TVG1 stops at 5:26pm and doesn't start up again until 12:51am. So if your guide is using TVG1 you shouldn't get any info in the evening, not even a clock set.
I also did the 00000 zipcode reset a couple of weeks ago and I recovered in 2 hours.


Are you sure about no TVG1 data being transmitted in the evening? I know that the data for listings isn't sent out in the evening, but there is other activity going on. Does your TV have an ATSC Slicer screen that you can see the data packets counting? Are you saying in the evening you can go to that screen and see no packets counting?


The reason why I said to drop the patch is to see if anybody can produce a consistent result over and over again. Then try the patch and see if you get the same result. You also have to lose your grid to see if you can consistently recover your grid back. Remember the key word is consistency. Also remember that your dvr was consistent when it was on analog downloads when using OTA or cable or both.
Those of you that have the converter boxes try leaving them hooked up for a couple of weeks to see if you get consistent results. Even wipe your grid out and see how the dvr recovers.


I'll save everyone here a lot of time. Here are the recovery times for my DVR since May 20. All but the last one was with the 1.2.21 firmware. Also note that my DVR apparently doesn't have to switch between the legacy data and the TVG1 data (if that is what it is doing), since it always recovers in 3 days, or less.

Reset Grid Elapsed Time
5/20/09 7:30pm 5/21/09 5:00pm < 24 hours
+ 5/28/09 7:00am 5/28/09 6:00pm 11 hours
5/31/09 10:46pm 6/2/09 9:30am < 36 hours
* 6/13/09 7:15am 6/14/09 6:45am < 24 hours
+ 7/2/09 1:10pm 7/2/09 3:15pm 2 hours
* 7/6/09 4:21pm 7/9/09 3:15am < 3 days
7/8/09 12:50pm 7/9/09 2:15am 13 hours
7/9/09 1:30pm 7/10/09 5:15am < 17 hours
7/10/09 7:55pm 7/13/09 7:15am 3 days
8/13/09 8:10pm 8/14/09 12:15pm 16 hours
$ 8/26/09 8:40pm 8/29/09 5:45pm 3 days

+ = Reset To Factory Defaults, but maintained patch 08.06.44
* = Restore Factory Defaults, and re-upgrade to 1.2.21
$ = Restore Factory Defaults, and left at 1.2.13

Would you say that my DVR can consistently recover from a reset? Doesn't it make sense that, if these are Sony problems, that everyone's DVR would at least recover just as fast (or slow) as mine?


Note: To wipe out your grid put 00000 for your zip code and then turn the dvr off for 15 minutes. Then turn on the dvr and put your normal zip code back in and then turn off your dvr for about three hours. You should have your channel lineup by then.


The "00000" zip code reset doesn't wipe out the grid on the Sony (or my panasonic DMR-E95H recorder). If your DVR has lost it's host channel, it will start a new search for one, but it doesn't touch the grid.


[...]
I deeply apologize if I missed any details because my mind moves far faster then my fingers can type.:o

Although, I don't agree with 100% of what you have said, you have provided an interesting take on what could be happening.

Mark

I think you're getting ahead of yourself here. I don't think the download schedule is used at all until you have a host channel, and a grid. That is the only time the DLTimer, and LastDLStart fields start getting updated, and the download history screens start getting filled in. Also the 3 day cycle you describe is actually 4.5 days if the host channel isn't set. It is possible that the Sony is trying to find data in two different places, which would cause it to miss some of it. However, as others have pointed out, the data that my sony receives successfully here, is missed in other places around the country. While certain data packets that are infrequent here, are received in large numbers elsewhere. This is why I still contend that there is definitely a difference in the data that is sent out here, and the data that is sent out in other places.



Mark


The above statement is 100% true and correct, and I feel I have confirmed it and been through it a million times now.

However, is the 3 day cycle referred to the older legacy?



Mark thanks for posting your table. Reading it I am under the "+" mode now and it has been X days and counting. I see one of yours at 11 hours and the other in just 2 hours.

It is just so weird that each city is so different. It is dumb that my box with an empty Grid can get 8 day listings in just a few short hours..........but can take years (if ever) just to get a Grid.

I heard back from the engineer and they apparantly just turned off the analog feed channel 94, thinking that no one was using it. From what the engineer told me they got quite a few calls about it and turned it back on.

Lesson...Be vocal....and don't take no for the answer.

Also isn't there a law that the legacy devices have to be supported for a period of time?

HDAddiction.

Do you have a number to call? I've tried calling Charter and can get no where. The people I've talked to don't even know what TVGOS is!

Marshall

Hey guys, can you do a manual recording if you don't have a grid, if so, how? I can receive the channels just fine, but no grid.

Thanks

Hey guys, can you do a manual recording if you don't have a grid, if so, how? I can receive the channels just fine, but no grid.

Thanks

as long as you have clock you can manual record.

put cursor on "schedule" at top of screen

hit "menu" button on remote.

a little square opens on the left and you can put in date, time, channel, etc.

at any time you complete the "square", then just hit enter, it will take you to schedule record, and hit enter again to confirm..........set up as many as you like........a whole week if you like, etc.

have at it.

The Sonys have tuners that are at least 4 years obsolete, and they don't handle weak signals or signals with multipath interference very well.

Totally ! I have first gen OTA tuners in my US Digital box and Sony TV and the HDD units. These units lose one of my weaker channels when the trees fill in. My other tuners in a recent vintage Panny TV and Dish boxes never lose the weak channel. I've corrected for splitting, etc and the fact is the first gen sony tuners need a strong clean signal, whereas the newer units can resolve a weaker channel much better. When the trees drop leaves, the weak channel crosses the sensitivity threshold of the first gen units and I can get it until spring.

To find the "unfindable" channel. If all else fails, disconnect the antenna. Do a full Autoscan, wiping out all channels. After that is done, turn off the unit and turn it back on. Rescan with the antenna hooked up. I had one box unable to see channel 51, my weak channel, and after this bit, it saw it at a low level 60% but would lock it. Why ? who knows ...

Apparently, the 8 day listing block of data I received after removal of the Aretec was a one time shot. Last I looked (yesterday) the last 2 or 3 days of listings (days 6, 7 & 8) are showing 'No listing'. :(

Should I do the zip code deal (00000) and see?

It is a shame that these Sony units do not have an internet hookup, otherwise we could get TVGOS through the internet. Is there a box (converter) which has both internet and TVGOS capabilities? If so, then that might be what we need to get these machines going again.
Michael

Apparently, the 8 day listing block of data I received after removal of the Aretec was a one time shot. Last I looked (yesterday) the last 2 or 3 days of listings (days 6, 7 & 8) are showing 'No listing'. :(

Should I do the zip code deal (00000) and see?

Check your host channel. Is it still 43-0, or is it blanked again? If it is blank, that is ok, but it may have picked a different host channel that doesn't get your guide data (the canadian stations that your DVR has had problems with). Also check the ATSC slicer screen, and see if your are getting counts when tuned to your host channel. It's possible that they have turned off the TVGOS for some reason.

Mark

Similar to what a few others have reported in recent days, I've found this evening that my ads are gone, and I'm missing approximately the last 12 hours of listings from day 8. :mad:

mabuttra, what's going on with this in your area?

Edit: If it makes anyone feel any better (or worse), my Mits TV with V-9.1.56 TVGOS is also missing the ads. The Mits still has full listings, but it has TV Guide Daily which only extends out 24 hours.

as long as you have clock you can manual record.

put cursor on "schedule" at top of screen

hit "menu" button on remote.

a little square opens on the left and you can put in date, time, channel, etc.

at any time you complete the "square", then just hit enter, it will take you to schedule record, and hit enter again to confirm..........set up as many as you like........a whole week if you like, etc.

have at it.
Thanks! :D

Similar to what a few others have reported in recent days, I've found this evening that my ads are gone, and I'm missing approximately the last 12 hours of listings from day 8. :mad:

mabuttra, what's going on with this in your area?

Edit: If it makes anyone feel any better (or worse), my Mits TV with V-9.1.56 TVGOS is also missing the ads. The Mits still has full listings, but it has TV Guide Daily which only extends out 24 hours.

I thought it was because I had been talking too much about how predictable my DVR is, but my day 8 listings were also very sporadic today. One channel is 100% No Listings, and about 60% of day 8 is No Title. I checked my analog DVR that is getting SCTE-127 data from cable, and it didn't get listings at all last night, for the first time in a couple of months. Also, my ads are gone too. Something I've been a little concerned about is that after posting the table the other day that showed that I only got 5 timezone packets last week. I haven't received a timezone packet since. This was day 6 without getting one (all the other data has been there so far though). Last Saturday my host channel blanked, and, for the first time that I can remember, my DVR went the full 4.5 days without getting a host channel, and started a new NumSearch yesterday. Although my listings have apparently stopped, my ATSC Slicer screen still shows data coming in. This morning HoustonPerson posted a picture of his ATSC slicer screen not getting any data, so the TVGOS seems to be turned off completely there.

Mark

I'm missing my listings here, also.

Townie, OETA is testing and trying to establish a pattern for the interference the Onscreen equipment is causing with certain converter boxes and OETA's audio. I received an email that they were turning the data stream back on to test, but it could go away again if the problems persist and Rovi can't find a solution.

I don't have ads or listings for day 8 either, but there is data coming in still.

I received this reply from Steve at WGCL.

"I want to give you an update on TVGOS. Earlier this week we identified another make/model of converter having the same decoding problem when the TVGOS stream is present. This indicates to us that the problem is even more widespread than we initially thought.

As a result we have made a business decision to discontinue the TVGOS service completely. We are now in the process of returning the equipment to TV Guide.

I suspect they will approach other stations in town looking for an outlet. Please contact them for more information."

So, sounds like the outage will be very long term, given that it could take a long time for them to switch to a different station (if ever).

[...]
my day 8 listings were also very sporadic today. One channel is 100% No Listings, and about 60% of day 8 is No Title. I checked my analog DVR that is getting SCTE-127 data from cable, and it didn't get listings at all last night, for the first time in a couple of months. Also, my ads are gone too.
[...]


Good news here this morning. My Sony has a full 8 days of listings, and the ads are back. My analog DVR also has day 8 filled in, so whatever the problem may have been was short term.

Mark

My ads came back this morning, NumSearch 3 started about 8-10 hours early? No HostChannel - No Grid. Will post pics later. I had turned the box "on" about 30 min after TVGOS service restored. It went from No Ads to 90+ads in less than 30 min. HeapInfo page is zooming data.

I didn't check mine before I left for my office this morning. But I'll be back home about noon and I'll check then. I wonder what's going in Atlanta........ I saw another post indicating the Atlanta host station tore up it's TVGOS contract. :eek:

Hey guys, can you do a manual recording if you don't have a grid, if so, how? I can receive the channels just fine, but no grid.

Thanks

I learned here, and I use it all the time, that it's easier to select the channel first then hold down the red record button. That will, after a few seconds, take you to the manual record screen with the current channel filled in. All you need to do is set the rest of the parameters. There is no "regularly" option (and "daily" means Mon-Fri) and all recordings are named "unknown". Nothing you can do about that. BTW, I have 8 days of listings at this time. I just never use them for recording, and I have all my analog cable channels turned off in the Sony channels preference menu, including my host channel.

I received this reply from Steve at WGCL.

[I]"I want to give you an update on TVGOS. Earlier this week we identified another make/model of converter having the same decoding problem when the TVGOS stream is present. This indicates to us that the problem is even more widespread than we initially thought.

).


tustinfarm. The whole statement from WGCL sounds suspect. It almost sounds like people are not hooking their equipement up correct? What is the "decoding problem"? Is it just "one" channel or "every channel" on the converter box? I still have not heard of this problem from anyone in Houston........but then again? It would also interesting to know the "other brand" converter box? anyway just my 2 cents.

I got the same email from CBS Atlanta. Looks like this entire season is shot for the Atlanta folk.....guess I gotta get used to setting manual recordings day of (with my clock off by 2 hours) and figuring out the Hulu schedule and how many days each network is offset. Sucks.....

In my case, I had no data no grid after I upgraded to .21. I left it all forever (couple of days) and the downstairs got the clock that afternoon. In the stl market I guess they only send the timezone packet once a week. After I got the time, the next morning I have the complete guide.

The upstairs unit did'nt get the time zone packet till sat and the clock was set shortly afterwards and the grid filled in the next morning. It was off for atleast 5 days.

I ca'nt vouch for others, but after I upgraded to .21 I left my units off till I got the clock and the grid appeared the next morning.

YMMV.

HDAddiction

What is your host channel? X-XX Is it OTA or cable? I want to set my unit to that channel before I turn it off to get the guide data. I'm on .21 with OTA and Charter Cable.

Thanks!

Ads and full listings are back on my machines. :)

I got the same email from CBS Atlanta. Looks like this entire season is shot for the Atlanta folk.....guess I gotta get used to setting manual recordings day of (with my clock off by 2 hours) and figuring out the Hulu schedule and how many days each network is offset. Sucks.....I believe you had a Xbox360. In that case, you might look to add Windows 7 and a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116036&cm_re=WinTV-HVR-2250-_-15-116-036-_-Product) to your PC. You could then access Windows Media Center with its EPG, liveTV, and recordings through your Xbox360 (video demo (http://www.viddler.com/explore/engadget/videos/503/0.627)).

If you want a new dual-tuner DVR "toaster" with guaranteed guide data in every market, then there's the TiVo (video demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNvgoLVzijE&hd=1)), which is also expected to release a new DVR in early 2010.

I believe you had a Xbox360. In that case, you might look to add Windows 7 and a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116036&cm_re=WinTV-HVR-2250-_-15-116-036-_-Product) to your PC. You could then access Windows Media Center with its EPG, liveTV, and recordings through your Xbox360 (video demo (http://www.viddler.com/explore/engadget/videos/503/0.627)).

If you want a new dual-tuner DVR "toaster" with guaranteed guide data in every market, then there's the TiVo (video demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNvgoLVzijE&hd=1)), which is also expected to release a new DVR in early 2010.

I've seriously considered the Tivo...just not sure I'm ready to drop $1000 on a DVR and service. That looks like the price to get what I'd need....I don't think the base HD model would give me enough space (without voiding the warranty right out of the box with a drive upgrade) and I'd wind up doing lifetime service since monthly bills tend to pi$$ me off for some reason.....

Will look into the tuner card possibility.....not sure that my current PC would be the best....it has a driver or hardware conflict I can't figure out that causes unpredictable lockups. If I had to upgrade my PC, I'd spend close to the same as a Tivo all total.

Gotta kick this around....maybe another local station will pick up TVGOS and put some thought into making it work right.

Will look into the tuner card possibility.....not sure that my current PC would be the best....it has a driver or hardware conflict I can't figure out that causes unpredictable lockups. If I had to upgrade my PC, I'd spend close to the same as a Tivo all total. If you are only recording on the PC and using the Xbox360 for all viewing, then you don't need a fast/modern PC. A P4 or Athlon64 with 1+GB RAM and Windows 7 will do fine.

Windows 7 appears to be much more reliable than Vista for recording. There are far fewer driver issues which cause halted recordings, loss of tuners, etc.

The new TiVo coming in January/February should have a 320-500GB drive, but a OTA tuner for your existing PC is clearly the cheapest option, especially if you've already got a Xbox360 (works as Windows Media Center extender) and plan to upgrade to Windows 7. This approach isn't truly feeless, because it will probably cost you another $10-$20/mo worth of electricity even after unplugging the Sony, depending on how much TV you watch/record.

The new TiVo coming in January/February should have a 320-500GB drive, but a OTA tuner for your existing PC is clearly the cheapest option, especially if you've already got a Xbox360 (works as Windows Media Center extender) and plan to upgrade to Windows 7. This approach isn't truly feeless, because it will probably cost you another $10-$20/mo worth of electricity even after unplugging the Sony, depending on how much TV you watch/record.

bfdtv, do you know if the new Tivo will add channel mapping capabilities?

If you are only recording on the PC and using the Xbox360 for all viewing, then you don't need a fast/modern PC. A P4 or Athlon64 with 1+GB RAM and Windows 7 will do fine.

Windows 7 appears to be much more reliable than Vista for recording. There are far fewer driver issues which cause halted recordings, loss of tuners, etc.

The new TiVo coming in January/February should have a 320-500GB drive, but a OTA tuner for your existing PC is clearly the cheapest option, especially if you've already got a Xbox360 (works as Windows Media Center extender) and plan to upgrade to Windows 7. This approach isn't truly feeless, because it will probably cost you another $10-$20/mo worth of electricity even after unplugging the Sony, depending on how much TV you watch/record.

For $130 I may try the tuner card on my existing PC. It has the horsepower, it's just always had this quirky freeze/lockup issue that I can't pinpoint. Doesn't happen that often, but would be a PITA for scheduled recordings if it happened when I was away.
Haven't planned on Win7 right away.....I always like to wait for SP1 on new OS to clear any bugs out. I do have Vista Ultimate, so I have MC and could use it for now, quirks and all.....unless the card is just unusable with Vista....

Not worried about the extra juice.....I leave the PC on 90% of the time as it is.

bfdtv, do you know if the new Tivo will add channel mapping capabilities?When the FCC granted a waiver for encryption on the DTAs (allowing MSOs to encrypt everything but locals), I think that killed any possibility of ClearQAM mapping on the TiVo.

With most MSOs eliminating non-local ClearQAM channels in the next 6-24 months, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for TiVo to invest in that feature. If the FCC grants Cablevision's latest request (http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=182232&site=cdn&f_src=lightreading_gnews) to encrypt ClearQAM locals on cable, then other operators will probably follow suit on that as well.

At this point, this (link) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17076022&postcount=110) is all TiVo has said publicly about the new model. Technology has obviously improved since the TivoHD was released in mid-2007 (ex: 2-3x faster DVR CPUs with superior 2D/3D graphics, improved ATSC tuners, etc), and I would expect the new model to reflect that. Any further discussion on that topic should be in the appropriate thread.

I'll save everyone here a lot of time. Here are the recovery times for my DVR since May 20. All but the last one was with the 1.2.21 firmware. Also note that my DVR apparently doesn't have to switch between the legacy data and the TVG1 data (if that is what it is doing), since it always recovers in 3 days, or less.

Reset Grid Elapsed Time
5/20/09 7:30pm 5/21/09 5:00pm < 24 hours
+ 5/28/09 7:00am 5/28/09 6:00pm 11 hours
5/31/09 10:46pm 6/2/09 9:30am < 36 hours
* 6/13/09 7:15am 6/14/09 6:45am < 24 hours
+ 7/2/09 1:10pm 7/2/09 3:15pm 2 hours
* 7/6/09 4:21pm 7/9/09 3:15am < 3 days
7/8/09 12:50pm 7/9/09 2:15am 13 hours
7/9/09 1:30pm 7/10/09 5:15am < 17 hours
7/10/09 7:55pm 7/13/09 7:15am 3 days
8/13/09 8:10pm 8/14/09 12:15pm 16 hours
$ 8/26/09 8:40pm 8/29/09 5:45pm 3 days

+ = Reset To Factory Defaults, but maintained patch 08.06.44
* = Restore Factory Defaults, and re-upgrade to 1.2.21
$ = Restore Factory Defaults, and left at 1.2.13


Mark


Mark, I see the "+", the "*", the"$"..............but on the lines above that are blank, were those just "soft resets" and/or "unplug/plug"?

It seems the Grid came back in all but 3 cases in less than 24 hours?

I received this reply from Steve at WGCL.

"I want to give you an update on TVGOS. Earlier this week we identified another make/model of converter having the same decoding problem when the TVGOS stream is present. This indicates to us that the problem is even more widespread than we initially thought.

As a result we have made a business decision to discontinue the TVGOS service completely. We are now in the process of returning the equipment to TV Guide.

I suspect they will approach other stations in town looking for an outlet. Please contact them for more information."


I received the same reply from Steve at WGCL today. Ironically, later in the afternoon (after waiting over two weeks for a reply), I received my first and only reply from Rovi which reads:

"The broadcast station in your area that our data is carried on is having is issue with their equipment working properly with our equipment. Our broadcast engineers are working on this. Once there is an update we will let you know.

Thank you,
CE Tech Support"

I suspect the Rovi broadcast engineers are not working on it, but rather it's down to a business negotiation with another Atlanta station. Steve at WGCL may have simply been fed up with Rovi's (lack of) response and said, "I'll return the equipment since you guys don't seem to be willing to fix this." Either way, we have a long wait on our hands.

I too will now pursue another HD option, like Windows 7/Hauppage. Unfortunatley, that kind of expensive option appears to be the only path forward in the Atlanta market right now for Sony HDD owners.:mad:

anyone has any luck replacing hard drives in these soy units? i'm really out of space.

Mark, I see the "+", the "*", the"$"..............but on the lines above that are blank, were those just "soft resets" and/or "unplug/plug"?

It seems the Grid came back in all but 3 cases in less than 24 hours?

Those were 'Reset To Factory Defaults' which cleared the patch level to 00.00.00, so both patches had to be retrieved. I guess there are fewer 3 day recovery times than I thought. I guess when you're waiting for something to happen, it seems like it takes longer than it actually does. I've also kept track of some of my host channel clear, and set again times. Some of those approach 3 days as well.

Mark

Townie, OETA is testing and trying to establish a pattern for the interference the Onscreen equipment is causing with certain converter boxes and OETA's audio. I received an email that they were turning the data stream back on to test, but it could go away again if the problems persist and Rovi can't find a solution.

I don't have ads or listings for day 8 either, but there is data coming in still.

Well, I got my listings back today. I hope they stay on.

anyone has any luck replacing hard drives in these soy units? i'm really out of space.

Short answer: NO.

:)Last Saturday WINK ch. 11.1 in FT. Myers had an equipment tvos failure. I e-mailed the station engineer and said that new equipment was being shipped. Friday I noticed that the data was again flowing. He aslo said that TVOS logged on the station box and couldn't get data out of the box. I guess that proves Rovi can see what data is flowing out of any box.

Stingray

:)Last Saturday WINK ch. 11.1 in FT. Myers had an equipment tvos failure. I e-mailed the station engineer and said that new equipment was being shipped. Friday I noticed that the data was again flowing. He aslo said that TVOS logged on the station box and couldn't get data out of the box. I guess that proves Rovi can see what data is flowing out of any box.

Stingray
This makes it look like WGCL management did not want to deal with TVGOS if what you say is the case with your location. Or that Rovi could not deal with them. Something is fishy. Has your host station indicated having any problems with Apex or other brand converter boxes?
Michael

This makes it look like WGCL management did not want to deal with TVGOS if what you say is the case with your location. Or that Rovi could not deal with them. Something is fishy. Has your host station indicated having any problems with Apex or other brand converter boxes?
Michael

I have no idea about the converter box issue. All I know is that when tvos went down I e-mailed the station. The engineer said it was back up ,but I told him that I was getting time data but no guide data. He then replied that tvos verified that no guide data was flowing and a new unit was being sent. Here I have had a blank host since feb. Also nobody has ever built a grid since analog shut off in my area. Maybe the new equipment WINK just installed could change that. Another note the equipment that was just replaced was new in April of this year. I'm sure WINK sent that back to ROVI to be analized,fixed and sent out again to whereever needed.

SS-Stingray

This makes it look like WGCL management did not want to deal with TVGOS if what you say is the case with your location. Or that Rovi could not deal with them. Something is fishy. Has your host station indicated having any problems with Apex or other brand converter boxes?
Michael

It appears that this Florida problem is a case of equipment failure and has nothing to do with the problem in Atlanta (and other places). For that case it would appear that there is a design problem with the tuner chipset that the Apex converter (and some other tuners) use. It may well be something that is very difficult (if not impossible) for Rovi/TVGOS to fix in their equipment.

jmonier what confuses me is, if all CBS stations are useing the same tvgos equipment ever station should have the same problem? why did wgcl pull out and leave us out on a limb? when tvgos is still a big selling point on lot's of tv's vcr's ect. now I have to have a pen and paper to try and figure the time to manualy record because my clock is off,and losses time ever day. Thanks alot wgcl 46.1. Are all the other CBS stations shutting down? maybe CBS twisted Atlanta 46.1 arm a little to carry tvgos signal? and this was their excuse to get out,Like I said Thanks alot wgcl 46.1

jmonier what confuses me is, if all CBS stations are useing the same tvgos equipment ever station should have the same problem?All stations may use the same TVGOS box, but all stations are certainly not using the same equipment configuration.

Broadcast equipment (varies by affiliate) -> TVGOS box

WGCL claims that other broadcasters are experiencing the same problem. There are probably other affiliates that have not identified TVGOS as the source of viewer complaints. It took WGCL many weeks to determine that the TVGOS box was responsible for the inability of certain CECBs to tune their channel.

when tvgos is still a big selling point on lot's of tv's vcr's ect.What current TVs and VCRs support guide data from TVGOS? I'm not aware of any besides the DTVPal / DTVPal DVR, and that product uses PSIP to display the time and program information when TVGOS is unavailable.

now I have to have a pen and paper to try and figure the time to manualy record because my clock is off,and losses time ever day.Most (if not all) newer digital TV products set their clock using PSIP. They do not rely on TVGOS.

From what others have said, the Sony DHG is fairly unique in its reliance on TVGOS to set the time. Today, this seems like an obvious design flaw, but at the time the Sony DHG was released, PSIP time in many markets was wrong more often than it was right.

bfdtv I must admit,a lot of this stuff is way over my head, but you seem very up on all this stuff? and in your opinion do you think ABC , NBC , PBS could maybe carry the signal and not cause a problem? Hey I was not trying to trash 46 just letting off steam, 85% of my tv viewing is 46.1

bfdtv I must admit,a lot of this stuff is way over my head, but you seem very up on all this stuff? and in your opinion do you think ABC , NBC , PBS could maybe carry the signal and not cause a problem? Hey I was not trying to trash 46 just letting off steam, 85% of my tv viewing is 46.1I don't think anyone outside [maybe] TVGOS knows the root of the problem. It's difficult to fix a problem when you don't understand it.

If the problem is specific to a certain equipment configuration, then I don't see why another affiliate in the same market couldn't carry the signal.

From what others have said, the Sony DHG is fairly unique in its reliance on TVGOS to set the time. Today, this seems like an obvious design flaw, but at the time the Sony DHG was released, PSIP time in many markets was wrong more often than it was right.

Today is the first I've noticed a time problem (my DHG clock appears to be 12 hours behind real time). My schedule remains fully populated. It did miss recording one program last night - maybe the clock changed sometime between when the 8pm program started recording and the 9pm one was supposed to.

I've been having a problem lately though that has been bothersome. When it has been recording, it wouldn't respond to any commands from the remote. So, while it would record a program fine, then play it back fine (as long as something else didn't start recording), I couldn't watch something that was still recording or pause/ff "live" TV (or control a program playing back when another started recording). Once recording quit, everything would return to normal. Are others having this problem? Any suggestions?

Hope the clock goes back to the right time!

jimmyv I have 2 hgd-hdd250's did not have clock problem until Atlanta lost it host station,but on one of my units the very same problem,and I bet there are many more,very annoying . my unit got so bad I gave up trying to watch while it was recording,even worse trying to watch a program it was recording 10-15 minutes ahead of you, if you tried to fast forward it would freeze up until it quit recording,do a little dance then go back acting normal. Is CBS your host station in ST.Paul? just wondering if Y'All[southern talk] are haveing the same problems we have in Atlanta.

so back to an old problem with my Sony...

2 weeks in a row, although "Heroes" was set to be recorded weekly, the setting was removed when it was updated on the day of the episode...last week I didn't notice that until it was three quarters of the way through the 2-hr opening episode...this evening I noticed it at 1 minute in, so it wasn't so bad...

it's a pain having to check something like this daily...though it seems only to be Heroes that it has it in for...

Sorry to post this under reply but I couldn't find a New Thread box to click on.

The HDMI output to my 250 just went dead, I tried a new cable but still no output.
On a hunch I checked the component output which was working ok.

Has anyone else had this problem ? And is there a fix without sending it back to Sony?
Thanks,

Larry
I have the same issue, has anyone found a solution to the problem?

jimmyv I have 2 hgd-hdd250's did not have clock problem until Atlanta lost it host station,but on one of my units the very same problem,and I bet there are many more,very annoying . my unit got so bad I gave up trying to watch while it was recording,even worse trying to watch a program it was recording 10-15 minutes ahead of you, if you tried to fast forward it would freeze up until it quit recording,do a little dance then go back acting normal. Is CBS your host station in ST.Paul? just wondering if Y'All[southern talk] are haveing the same problems we have in Atlanta.

Yes, CBS is my host. So the 'can't control playback while recording' issue isn't unique to my unit - must be a program update glitch that got sent out. Hope they get this and the clock issue fixed - I really want to keep using my DHG.

So I got an Artec to get my grid back on one of my two Sonys. Now that the grid is back, how long does it take to get the listings back?

Thanks

jmonier what confuses me is, if all CBS stations are useing the same tvgos equipment ever station should have the same problem? why did wgcl pull out and leave us out on a limb? when tvgos is still a big selling point on lot's of tv's vcr's ect. now I have to have a pen and paper to try and figure the time to manualy record because my clock is off,and losses time ever day. Thanks alot wgcl 46.1. Are all the other CBS stations shutting down? maybe CBS twisted Atlanta 46.1 arm a little to carry tvgos signal? and this was their excuse to get out,Like I said Thanks alot wgcl 46.1

There is some indication that the problem IS really wide spread. For instance, here in LA I seen 2 reports of the CBS station being ignored (one was for an Asus tuner card and the other was for an Elgato? TV). I think it's more in the sensitivity of the station engineer/management to this type of problem. I don't think that most engineering staffs pay as much attention to the problems of a minority of viewers as the engineer in Atlanta does.

It is further complicated in the case of CBS owned and operated stations (the largest markets). There the CBS network has a contract with Rovi/TVGOS to carry TVGOS in return for advertising. This would make it very complicated for them to pull TVGOS especially since it affects a relatively small percentage of their OTA viewers who are, in turn, a small percentage of of their total viewer base.

so back to an old problem with my Sony...

2 weeks in a row, although "Heroes" was set to be recorded weekly, the setting was removed when it was updated on the day of the episode...last week I didn't notice that until it was three quarters of the way through the 2-hr opening episode...this evening I noticed it at 1 minute in, so it wasn't so bad...

it's a pain having to check something like this daily...though it seems only to be Heroes that it has it in for...

Tony - I've gotten completely in the habit of setting manual programs for everything I want, and then, using the grid. Never lost a manual schedule, so when/if the grid-based recording "disappears", I at least get the manual backup.

I haven't lost any scheduled listings since upgrading, yet.

So I got an Artec to get my grid back on one of my two Sonys. Now that the grid is back, how long does it take to get the listings back?

Thanks

You should get listings over night. However, if the DVR is still locked onto the Artec channel for a host, you'll want to blank it so it will search for the data. To do this just go into the TVGOS setup, change your zip code to a different one (not "00000"), and complete the setup. Now go back into the setup, and change the zip code back to what it was. This blanks the host channel, and the DVR will search, and find the digital TVGOS source. You should have 8 days of listings by tomorrow morning.

Mark

"Dear valued consumer,

We were just updated by our broadcast operatios department that we are looking at other broadcast stations to carry our equipment in the Atlanta area.

For Comcast customers we will be installing equipment at their facility in the Atlanta area and expect TVGOS data to be restored in the next 1 to 2 weeks.

Thank you for your patience."

"Dear valued consumer,

We were just updated by our broadcast operatios department that we are looking at other broadcast stations to carry our equipment in the Atlanta area.

For Comcast customers we will be installing equipment at their facility in the Atlanta area and expect TVGOS data to be restored in the next 1 to 2 weeks.

Thank you for your patience."

Well, at least the source seems to know about the issue and acts like they are taking steps to resolve it.

Any bets on how long it will be before we get OTA TVGOS back in ATL?

Today is the first I've noticed a time problem (my DHG clock appears to be 12 hours behind real time). My schedule remains fully populated. It did miss recording one program last night - maybe the clock changed sometime between when the 8pm program started recording and the 9pm one was supposed to.

I've been having a problem lately though that has been bothersome. When it has been recording, it wouldn't respond to any commands from the remote. So, while it would record a program fine, then play it back fine (as long as something else didn't start recording), I couldn't watch something that was still recording or pause/ff "live" TV (or control a program playing back when another started recording). Once recording quit, everything would return to normal. Are others having this problem? Any suggestions?

Hope the clock goes back to the right time!

I don't have a problem with the clock, but I had a problem with watching a recorded program when my Sony DVR started a recording last Friday. My unit stopped responding to the remote and then rebooted. I have the old firmware so I did the g*test to quickly get an accurate clock. It resumed recording the program I had set, but kept recording past the scheduled end time. After running over about 5 minutes, it rebooted again.

Since then, I have tried 3 times to operate the unit while it is recording something. Each time, the unit will turn on, but then stops responding to the remote until the recording is finished. Earlier last week it had worked fine--I was able to watch recorded programs while it was doing scheduled recordings. It looks like an old problem that I haven't had for months has reappeared. As I recall, this problem is caused by faulty TV guide data.

I don't have a problem with the clock, but I had a problem with watching a recorded program when my Sony DVR started a recording last Friday. My unit stopped responding to the remote and then rebooted. I have the old firmware so I did the g*test to quickly get an accurate clock. It resumed recording the program I had set, but kept recording past the scheduled end time. After running over about 5 minutes, it rebooted again.

Since then, I have tried 3 times to operate the unit while it is recording something. Each time, the unit will turn on, but then stops responding to the remote until the recording is finished. Earlier last week it had worked fine--I was able to watch recorded programs while it was doing scheduled recordings. It looks like an old problem that I haven't had for months has reappeared. As I recall, this problem is caused by faulty TV guide data.

Here is the procedure for correcting that problem:
http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html#Section32
I had that problem on one of my units, and after a few weeks of living with that problem I performed that procedure to eliminate it. My DVR has the updated firmware, and you may need to install it before your unit can display the grid data.

Ray

You should get listings over night. However, if the DVR is still locked onto the Artec channel for a host, you'll want to blank it so it will search for the data. To do this just go into the TVGOS setup, change your zip code to a different one (not "00000"), and complete the setup. Now go back into the setup, and change the zip code back to what it was. This blanks the host channel, and the DVR will search, and find the digital TVGOS source. You should have 8 days of listings by tomorrow morning.

Mark
I'll try that and report back tomorrow.

Thanks

Here is the procedure for correcting that problem:
http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html#Section32
I had that problem on one of my units, and after a few weeks of living with that problem I performed that procedure to eliminate it. My DVR has the updated firmware, and you may need to install it before your unit can display the grid data.

Ray

Thanks for the info. Like you I will probably live with it for a while, since I'm not sure how long it will take to recover in a digital only environment.

You should get listings over night. However, if the DVR is still locked onto the Artec channel for a host, you'll want to blank it so it will search for the data. To do this just go into the TVGOS setup, change your zip code to a different one (not "00000"), and complete the setup. Now go back into the setup, and change the zip code back to what it was. This blanks the host channel, and the DVR will search, and find the digital TVGOS source. You should have 8 days of listings by tomorrow morning.

Mark
That did the trick. My listings are back. Sweet! :D

Thanks again for your help.

Support us poor folks without TVGOS data anymore. Here's the URL that gets you right to the page where you can send emails asking for an update that gives us a manual clock:

From Sony:

{ You need to call 800-222-7669 for support with this product. Or go to the following link and obtain email support or live chart under the Home Audio/Video line:

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/support-contacts.pl?

}

Thanks for the help.

"Packetless in PA"

Support us poor folks without TVGOS data anymore. Here's the URL that gets you right to the page where you can send emails asking for an update that gives us a manual clock:

From Sony:

{ You need to call 800-222-7669 for support with this product. Or go to the following link and obtain email support or live chart under the Home Audio/Video line:

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/support-contacts.pl?

}

Thanks for the help.

"Packetless in PA"

The site provides a download for the DHG to support getting TVGOS from a digital source. The software is V1.2.21 dated 4/10/09. Has anyone downloaded and installed this? Does it provide any advantage over the updates that have come over the air? My DHG still shows a full guide, it is just confused about the time and has the 'no response during recording' issue.

Which product category did you select to email to support under - Home Audio/Video and Remote Controls?

Here is the procedure for correcting that problem:
http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html#Section32
I had that problem on one of my units, and after a few weeks of living with that problem I performed that procedure to eliminate it. My DVR has the updated firmware, and you may need to install it before your unit can display the grid data.

Ray

Thanks - I'll give it a try.

The site provides a download for the DHG to support getting TVGOS from a digital source. The software is V1.2.21 dated 4/10/09. Has anyone downloaded and installed this? Does it provide any advantage over the updates that have come over the air? My DHG still shows a full guide, it is just confused about the time and has the 'no response during recording' issue.

Which product category did you select to email to support under - Home Audio/Video and Remote Controls?

I got a reply to my email to Sony Support about the clock already! Here's the message:

Thank you for contacting Sony Support.

I'm sorry that the Clock in the Digital Video Recorder is not set correctly. The System Software Update should resolve the issue. Please click on the URL link below to download and install the System Software Update.

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-download.pl?upd_id=4542&mdl=DHGHDD250

Thank you for your time.

The Sony Email Response Team
C147
Lauren

That is the same update I noted above was on the support site. I wonder if it actually provides the manual clock setting feature I requested or if it is just a standard "
don't bother us" reply?

Thank you for contacting Sony Support.

I understand that you wish to have a software update to set the clock in the Sony Digital Video Recorder. Unfortunately, currently there are no Software updates available for download to set the clock settings in the Recorder. The clock in the Recorder is automatically set by the TV guide On-screen interactive program guide. Please refer to page# 34 of the Instruction Manual for the information to access the On-screen TV guide interactive program.

You can view, save and/or print our manuals and other supplied documentation from our website at:

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/DHGHDD250-500rev2.pdf

That is the same update I noted above was on the support site. I wonder if it actually provides the manual clock setting feature I requested or if it is just a standard "
don't bother us" reply?That's Sony's generic response to such questions. There's no manual clock.

For what it's worth, I recently installed a HDD250 on a Comcast NJ system and I was having severe pixelation problems on the NON HD channels. The HD channels were fine. Service menu reported 88% signal quality "Good". I did notice my software version was 1.2.13. After reading the posts about the "clock" problem, I found the link to the software upgrade. I did the upgrade to Ver 1.2.21 and now no more pixelation! I guess I was quite a few upgrades behind.

The site provides a download for the DHG to support getting TVGOS from a digital source. The software is V1.2.21 dated 4/10/09. Has anyone downloaded and installed this? Does it provide any advantage over the updates that have come over the air? My DHG still shows a full guide, it is just confused about the time and has the 'no response during recording' issue.

Which product category did you select to email to support under - Home Audio/Video and Remote Controls?

This new update does not address manual clock set. This firmware update has been discussed extensively in this thread.

The main change here is that it allows the DHG to function properly in a digital only environment. It accomplishes that job well, but does nothing for you if your area is not supplied with guide data at all.

Oh, I understand now. It's that the Sony DVR's where mabuttra lives will build a Grid in 3 days, so those DVR's "miss the data" less than the DVR's where I live (since mine takes 3 to 6 days). And DVR's in Houston miss the data for some undetermined period approaching infinity? So what do you think would happen if mabuttra and HoustonPerson and myself were to swap DVR's with each other. Will the problem travel with the DVR, or will it remain in the user's city? :confused:

The answer will all depend on how each person is using their dvr, when they are using it (watching, recording, turned off, etc.), and even how it is hooked up. The way each of you are using your device will give you a different result. In order to get consistent results, all three of you will have to perform the same test at the same time using the same hook up.

The biggest problem you guys face is you are not comparing the sony dhg to any other TVGOS embedded devices. You have a version 9 device in your home, so why isn't that device exhibiting the same behavior as the sony does if both are running on TVG1? When there was a data problem, both your devices lost their ads as you mentioned in a later post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17240686#post17240686
I've found this evening that my ads are gone. If it makes anyone feel any better (or worse), my Mits TV with V-9.1.56 TVGOS is also missing the ads

If houston person knows anybody around his area with a version 9 device running off of TVG1, he should check to see how their device is performing first before he makes any assumption that there is a data problem in his area. This way he won't be waisting his time chasing the wrong problem. It's called a process of elimination.

You guys should post any TVGOS problems in the TVGOS thread. This way if a person does have a related problem in the same region, he/she will find that thread easier because he/she does not know what devices have TVGOS embedded in them. Example: A person with a Mitsubishi tv doesn't know that the sony dhg also has TVGOS or vice versa.

Thank you for contacting Sony Support.

I understand that you wish to have a software update to set the clock in the Sony Digital Video Recorder. Unfortunately, currently there are no Software updates available for download to set the clock settings in the Recorder. The clock in the Recorder is automatically set by the TV guide On-screen interactive program guide. Please refer to page# 34 of the Instruction Manual for the information to access the On-screen TV guide interactive program.

You can view, save and/or print our manuals and other supplied documentation from our website at:

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/DHGHDD250-500rev2.pdf

The answer will all depend on how each person is using their dvr, when they are using it (watching, recording, turned off, etc.), and even how it is hooked up. The way each of you are using your device will give you a different result....................

How are you using your DHG? How is it hooked up? And what problems have you encountered with yours? :)

Atlanta,Just got this E-mail From Rovi-They did not say by Comcast or ota---ota I hope but will not hold my breath.

We expect the TV Guide data to be restored in your area, by Monday Oct 5th.

Regards,

CE Customer Support.

Atlanta,Just got this E-mail From Rovi-They did not say by Comcast or ota---ota I hope but will not hold my breath.

We expect the TV Guide data to be restored in your area, by Monday Oct 5th.

Regards,

CE Customer Support.

That would line up with the email previously reported about Comcast. I can't see that they could contract with a new source and get the equipment installed that quickly for OTA.

Maybe so, and that would be great, but I'm not holding my breath either. My Hauppauge card should be here tomorrow.....

I have 2 sony's dvr. To my surprise I notice that one was getting its guide from the analog channel of the digital cbs feed ch 94 and the other one was getting it from the OTA digital.

Same software ver .21 same tvguide software version 71 I think, but two different feeds, one digital one analog.

Not missing any days or data. Nirvana for now.

HDADDICTION

mabuttra;17235136]Something that I've never been able to find out is if the TVG1 data stream contains separate data for V8, V9, and V10 devices, or do they all use the same data? If they are separate, it makes sense to me that the V8 data could be missing pieces while the V9, and V10 data are complete.

I don't know myself, but I think that the data is the same for all devices that run on TVG1. You have to remember that the host station has a fixed bit rate in their 6 MHz channel so TVGOS can't keep adding data to their stream because this will cut into the bit rate for the host stations video feed.
I have an assumption that the later version 8 devices, 08.01.65 and up, have the two update patches, an additional set of host start up flags to work with TVG1, and the download sequence is digital first and analog second, already included in the base version. Where as the earlier version 8's and down are strictly analog dependent. I do believe that most to all version 8 devices can be upgraded to run on TVG1 since they all have mpeg decoders built into them.

I'm with you so far. I won't question whether the Sony gets a grid from the legacy stream or TVG1 stream, because I have no way of knowing that for sure. Are you saying that we should have 2 download schedules (1 legacy, and 1 TVG1)? Because I only have one. Why can the sony easily read the TVG1 to get listings, but can't read it for the other data?

Theoretically, yes but it was never intended by Rovicorp that these devices were to run directly from the legacy stream. I can decode the legacy stream with my version 8 RCA DLP in the evening only and I also get a 5307 download schedule. For some reason my version 9 Pioneer ignores the legacy data and only sees TVG1.
Both the analog and digital download schedules have the same DLID (download identification number) numbers, which are type 27, 70, 81 which the guide is hardcoded to understand. The problem is the time and duration of the schedules happen at different times and for different lenght of times. Also the digital download has an additional DLID number which is 96. So when your guide sees type 70 it downloads it because it understand what it is and also your guide can decode an mpeg data stream, which what TVG1 and the legacy stream is.


I think you're getting ahead of yourself here. I don't think the download schedule is used at all until you have a host channel, and a grid. That is the only time the DLTimer, and LastDLStart fields start getting updated, and the download history screens start getting filled in. Also the 3 day cycle you describe is actually 4.5 days if the host channel isn't set. It is possible that the Sony is trying to find data in two different places, which would cause it to miss some of it. However, as others have pointed out, the data that my sony receives successfully here, is missed in other places around the country. While certain data packets that are infrequent here, are received in large numbers elsewhere. This is why I still contend that there is definitely a difference in the data that is sent out here, and the data that is sent out in other places.

What I was talking about here is after you get listings and you lose your channel line up (grid). The guide will use the current download schedule to retrieve the missing information to receive a new channel list to give you back your grid. But if the data you need is in the legacy stream and you have a TVG1 download schedule, your guide will be looking at the wrong time and possibley the wrong place for the information it needs to restore a working grid.
You also have to remember that every person uses their device at different times and for different length of times so they may keep missing the vital peices to restore the grid. Also this is a recorder so even when the person is away the device can be still in use whereas my device is a tv and when I'm not home it is not in use.
I agree with you that the download schedule is not used until you get a working grid, after you pick your channel line up. The guide will keep downloading data continuosly until it gets the data it needs or the device is turned on which will stop the download. That is why you are told to leave the devices off for 24 hours when you first set up the guide.

Are you sure about no TVG1 data being transmitted in the evening? I know that the data for listings isn't sent out in the evening, but there is other activity going on. Does your TV have an ATSC Slicer screen that you can see the data packets counting? Are you saying in the evening you can go to that screen and see no packets counting?

Yes I have the same ATSC splicer screen that you got when you installed the sony update patch. I do have activity going on but this is the legacy stream running and my guide dumps all the data which is about four packets per second. The legacy stream runs into the evening and stops about 7:30pm to 8:00pm and restarts about 10:30pm to 11:00pm.
As I stated before, if I do a full system reset after 5:29pm nothing happens until 12:51am. I don't even get a clock set.

For reference my two pioneer 5010's have a version 9 (09.01.46) 8 day guide with out the record feature and my RCA DLP has a version 8 (08.01.44/08.06.46) 8 day guide with the record feature. My pioneers are running off of TVG1 from KYW in philadelphia and my RCA is dataless since february 5th.

I'll save everyone here a lot of time. Here are the recovery times for my DVR since May 20. All but the last one was with the 1.2.21 firmware. Also note that my DVR apparently doesn't have to switch between the legacy data and the TVG1 data (if that is what it is doing), since it always recovers in 3 days, or less.

Reset Grid Elapsed Time
5/20/09 7:30pm 5/21/09 5:00pm < 24 hours
+ 5/28/09 7:00am 5/28/09 6:00pm 11 hours
5/31/09 10:46pm 6/2/09 9:30am < 36 hours
* 6/13/09 7:15am 6/14/09 6:45am < 24 hours
+ 7/2/09 1:10pm 7/2/09 3:15pm 2 hours
* 7/6/09 4:21pm 7/9/09 3:15am < 3 days
7/8/09 12:50pm 7/9/09 2:15am 13 hours
7/9/09 1:30pm 7/10/09 5:15am < 17 hours
7/10/09 7:55pm 7/13/09 7:15am 3 days
8/13/09 8:10pm 8/14/09 12:15pm 16 hours
$ 8/26/09 8:40pm 8/29/09 5:45pm 3 days

+ = Reset To Factory Defaults, but maintained patch 08.06.44
* = Restore Factory Defaults, and re-upgrade to 1.2.21
$ = Restore Factory Defaults, and left at 1.2.13

Would you say that my DVR can consistently recover from a reset? Doesn't it make sense that, if these are Sony problems, that everyone's DVR would at least recover just as fast (or slow) as mine?

Your three day recoveries are identical to when we had analog downloads. My version 9's can recover consistently from a full factory reset in 3 hours as long as TVG1 is running.
Yes everybody's dvr should recover like yours if they followed your reset procedure to the tee. But if they interfere with the process it will skew the results. They will have to do the procedure the same exact way you did yours. Any variation will skew the results.

The "00000" zip code reset doesn't wipe out the grid on the Sony (or my panasonic DMR-E95H recorder). If your DVR has lost it's host channel, it will start a new search for one, but it doesn't touch the grid.

You maybe right mark because I hadn't tried this in a while. If I remember correctly, after you put 00000 in the zip code, you turned off the device for 15 minutes and then turned it on and entered your correct zip code and this was supposed to throw away your channel line up (grid) and the guide will have to aquire a new one. I will have to make a note to test this when I do another full reset of the guide.
Is there a simple way of throwing away your grid without losing the 08.06.46 patch?

Although, I don't agree with 100% of what you have said, you have provided an interesting take on what could be happening.

Mark

I am also not ruling out that there maybe data problems in certain areas but I'm trying to use a process of elimination first, like comparing this TVGOS embedded device up against other TVGOS embedded devices to see if it is a widespread TVGOS device problem or a single TVGOS device problem.

I have a new issue.

I have the .21 software.

I live in Albuquerque NM and Receive the TVGOS data.

The problem I have having after getting the Guide data back after reinstalling the software and reformatting the drive is the following:

Channel 13.1 tunes in fine manually, but the data for the shows displays in TVGOS Grid as 10.1, so I can't record from the TVGOS.

Any idea how to fix this issue?

Larry

I have a new issue.

I have the .21 software.

I live in Albuquerque NM and Receive the TVGOS data.

The problem I have having after getting the Guide data back after reinstalling the software and reformatting the drive is the following:

Channel 13.1 tunes in fine manually, but the data for the shows displays in TVGOS Grid as 10.1, so I can't record from the TVGOS.

Any idea how to fix this issue?

Larry
Try #4 below.

Change Channel Display
The channels that have program listings provided for in the listing grid can be altered, as can the order in which they are displayed. Channels can be added to or removed from the listing grid or rearranged by using the “Change channel display” option under the SETUP tab of the Service Bar.
To Change Channel Display Options:
1. Enter the “Change channel display” option
2. Use the 􀀘/􀀙 buttons to highlight the channel to change and press ENTER.
3. To include or remove from the program listings, select either “on” or “off” in the “channel” option.1, 2
4. To change the channel number for the selection, enter the correct channel number in the “tune channel” option.3
5. To change the display position (where it appears in the list), change the “position” option.

How are you using your DHG? How is it hooked up? And what problems have you encountered with yours? :)

No I don't own one. I have two pioneer 5010's that have a version 9 (09.01.46) 8 day guide with out the record feature and my RCA DLP has a version 8 (08.01.44/08.06.46) 8 day guide with the record feature. My pioneers are running off of TVG1 from KYW in philadelphia and my RCA is dataless since february 5th.

The pioneers are used at different times of the day. My upstairs one is used in the afternoon and early evening and my downstairs one is used in the evening and early into the morning. My upstairs one has less zip code, time zone, clock sets, etc. than my one downstairs but they both have fully populated 8 day guides and ads.

There was a data interuption on saturday morning that lasted into saturday afternoon. I don't know if it occured at the host station or my cable company was doing work or had a break down at the headend or on the transmission lines. Since both of my tvs were off this was reflected equally in the diagnostic screens.

The site provides a download for the DHG to support getting TVGOS from a digital source. The software is V1.2.21 dated 4/10/09. Has anyone downloaded and installed this? Does it provide any advantage over the updates that have come over the air? My DHG still shows a full guide, it is just confused about the time and has the 'no response during recording' issue.

Which product category did you select to email to support under - Home Audio/Video and Remote Controls?

I sent email to ALL of them. The correct one is [U]Home Audio/Video[U], but I want to get them "inspired". I have used the .21 update, but it doesn't work with my cable system w/o a cable card. And the typo in their message tells me they don't do proof-reading either. At least I have a lot of VHS tapes of packets should I lose power longer than 12 hours. On a related topic the Sony KDL-70XB7 uses TV Guide and is still sold by Sony without a disclaimer that I can find. But thanks for helping.

Jed1, This is just some notes on how different it is in Houston.

1) After Reset Factory Defaults front panel clock can set correctly in 30 min to no longer than 2 hours; with just digital OTA source only (no Artec).

2) I have had the unit “off” for 3 full days (no recording to do either), and still no host channel set. With a Grid, normal digital program downloads will occur on a normal basis with the box “on” or “off”. I have seen program information change and update while it is “on”. That of course does not happen with legacy downloads.

3) Indirectly Rovi and FCC have indicated there is a problem with service in Houston; Rovi, I assume is in the process of trying to confirm and identify the problem. I do not know if that will lead to a solution or not. Here is the quote from the FCC’s email: “The problem may be that Rovi's TV Guide On Screen (TVGOS) software isn't compatible with the broadcast equipment at certain stations. In that case, Rovi will have to modify its software and they are probably working on the problem at this time.”

4) I do know that St. Louis, Dallas, Houston, and New Orleans all respond differently. Out of those three Houston appears to be the only one not able to set Host Channel on its own.

5) Even without Host Channel set, the box will still download guide data; but it is all rejected because there is no Grid to put it in.

6) AFAIK Version 9 devices work correctly in Houston, so I have heard; but I have not confirmed that myself. Also, are there version 9 recording devices? Or just TV’s only?

7) If the Sony Box has a Grid, it will build the full 8 day schedule in just a few hours. I have seen it do this from 3-6 hours.

8) Some have indicated that in some cities, the TVGOS interferes with the broadcast quality. We are fortunate it does not have that problem here. Our local CBS, for both prime time shows and weekend live sports, are as close as you can get to BluRay quality there is – both sound and picture.

Since the transition, I think there have been 3 or 4 Host Channel sets for Houston. Perhaps once a month and maybe on one occasion “twice” in a month. The box of course needs that Host Channel set quickly in order to build the grid and fill it with listings. It really should not take days, weeks, or months.

I have often felt the Sony Box has some “holes in it”, regarding its handling of digital host. In other words the software is not “entirely correct” to process the information correctly, in all environments.

Of course I can use the Artec, get the Grid and listings back in less than 24 hours. Then change the zip code to Dallas to block out the potential Houston Host so the box does not lock up again. And just pray that does not mess up the clock. But I prefer to have it work the “correct way”.

Time for Beer!

I did notice my software version was 1.2.13. After reading the posts about the "clock" problem, I found the link to the software upgrade. I did the upgrade to Ver 1.2.21 and now no more pixelation! I guess I was quite a few upgrades behind.

Well, I may have fixed my pixelation problem but now my clock is off! It was fine before the software upgrade. I'll see what happens overnight.

Well, I may have fixed my pixelation problem but now my clock is off! It was fine before the software upgrade. I'll see what happens overnight.
hm...I'm puzzled as to how the software upgrade would have helped a pixelation problem...though, of course, you're talking about digital cable - I guess - about which I know diddly...

Your three day recoveries are identical to when we had analog downloads. My version 9's can recover consistently from a full factory reset in 3 hours as long as TVG1 is running.


No, the recoveries are not identical. Those recovery times are how long it took to get a host channel/grid. The grid is always full a few hours later. In the analog world it takes three days for the listings to fill in after you get a grid... not at all the same.


Yes everybody's dvr should recover like yours if they followed your reset procedure to the tee. But if they interfere with the process it will skew the results. They will have to do the procedure the same exact way you did yours. Any variation will skew the results.


I don't even follow my own procedure to a tee. Look at that table, I did 4 different flavors of resets, and recoveries there. It didn't matter what process I did, I still got the final result within 3 days.


Is there a simple way of throwing away your grid without losing the 08.06.46 patch?


Yes, and no. The Reset To Factory Defaults is supposed to keep the patches if you only do it once. However this seems to only work about half the time. The general rule for me is that if I want it to keep the patches, then it dumps them, but if I want it to dump the patches then it keeps them. ;)


I am also not ruling out that there maybe data problems in certain areas but I'm trying to use a process of elimination first, like comparing this TVGOS embedded device up against other TVGOS embedded devices to see if it is a widespread TVGOS device problem or a single TVGOS device problem.

I'm still not convinced that comparing V9 devices to V8 devices is a valid comparison though. Here is why I say that...

From 5/13/09 to 5/27/09 (2 weeks), my digital host station had a listing outage that affected the SCTE-127 (legacy) data (which my analog DVR receives over cable), and whatever data my Sony receives (OTA). There were no nightly listings, but the ATSC slicer screen always showed activity. However, when I contacted the station (on 5/20/09) about this outage they assured me that everything was ok, and they told me that they have a TV whose guide was "fully populated" (a V9 device perhaps?). I was so puzzled by this, that I let another week go by before I called them again, and pleaded with them to look into it further (which they agreed to do). The next day the listings were filling in again on both devices. To top it off, if you look at my recovery history, the first recovery that I listed was during the time of this outage (5/20/09 - 5/21/09).

All I can conclude from this is that the listing data was out, while the grid recovery data wasn't, and that the TV that they have is looking at different data than the Sony, for listings. I still think that if the Sony was getting listings from the legacy data, it would not be able to fill the 8 day grid in just a few hours.

Mark

I don't have a problem with the clock, but I had a problem with watching a recorded program when my Sony DVR started a recording last Friday. My unit stopped responding to the remote and then rebooted. I have the old firmware so I did the g*test to quickly get an accurate clock. It resumed recording the program I had set, but kept recording past the scheduled end time. After running over about 5 minutes, it rebooted again.

Since then, I have tried 3 times to operate the unit while it is recording something. Each time, the unit will turn on, but then stops responding to the remote until the recording is finished. Earlier last week it had worked fine--I was able to watch recorded programs while it was doing scheduled recordings. It looks like an old problem that I haven't had for months has reappeared. As I recall, this problem is caused by faulty TV guide data.

I just wanted to note that tonight I was able to turn on and watch a previously recorded program while it was doing a scheduled recording. My unit responded instantly to all remote control commands. I didn't take any action to fix the problem.

I just wanted to note that tonight I was able to turn on and watch a previously recorded program while it was doing a scheduled recording. My unit responded instantly to all remote control commands. I didn't take any action to fix the problem.

Great - I did go through the procedure to fix the non-responsiveness to the remote while recording yesterday, rescanned my channels, rebuilt my channel list and resequenced it, and, was going to happily report that the problem was now fixed (including my clock being right), but, now it appears that may have all been unnecessary!

Actually, all is still not quite right. For some reason, I can't find TVGOS info for FOX - 9.1 KMSP-HD. I have several entries in the channel list that claim to be for 9.1, and several for KMSP, but, none seem to have any program listings. Strangely, one of the ones claiming to be KMSPH1 when I press 'Info' ID's itself as KAWEHD. All my other channels seem to have the right grid info. KMSP-HD 9.1 used to fill in the grid just fine, but, now I can't find it. Any suggestions?

I have 2 sony dhg hdd250 receivers, when i scan channels, one of don't
find any digital channels, It shows no signal strenth in systems menu for
the digital channels, but analog is find. I wanted to know if anyone else
had this problem. The other unit finds all the Digital channels.

Atlanta my dhg-hdd250's set their clocks thursday night and the tv guide is up on one----------OK www.rabbitears.info is showing wpba 30.1 as Atlant's new host station------hope they got all the bugs out.Good luck to ever one, got a lot of good info. off of this site {THE AVS FORUM}

Atlanta my dhg-hdd250's set their clocks thursday night and the tv guide is up on one----------OK www.rabbitears.info is showing wpba 30.1 as Atlant's new host station------hope they got all the bugs out.Good luck to ever one, got a lot of good info. off of this site {THE AVS FORUM}

It sounds promising - I re-started my HDD500 last night, forgot to check before leaving the house, but if WPBA is the carrier I may not be in luck, due to an oddity of my cable carrier (Charter). While I can receive WPBA from cable, on a plain vanilla HDTV tuner, the channel is not carried via the Cablecard in my HDD500 or the cable boxes. Kind of wierd to have a "hidden" channel lik that carried on cable. So...we'll see what happens. I suppose worst case scenario I could split cable to feed the OTA and add WPBA there so it can "see" it.

.................. I suppose worst case scenario I could split cable to feed the OTA and add WPBA there so it can "see" it.

I don't believe that will work for channel 30.1 (or any other digital channel for the matter). QAM and 8VSB are two diffferent animals.

Where do you locate TVGOS provider for Cable (Comcast)? It is provided without the need for a cable box/card. Thanks.

It sounds promising - I re-started my HDD500 last night, forgot to check before leaving the house, but if WPBA is the carrier I may not be in luck, due to an oddity of my cable carrier (Charter). While I can receive WPBA from cable, on a plain vanilla HDTV tuner, the channel is not carried via the Cablecard in my HDD500 or the cable boxes. Kind of wierd to have a "hidden" channel lik that carried on cable. So...we'll see what happens. I suppose worst case scenario I could split cable to feed the OTA and add WPBA there so it can "see" it.

Looks to be the case. I'm not at home until tonight, but my wife said that the DVR clock was correct last night, and it's been off for 2-3 weeks now. Here's hoping they can keep it running with no problems.

I need help!

I just got Comcast cable & and I have the HDD250, it has been hooked up for a week. I went through the set-up (putting in my zip code & channel scan) last week & it has still not set the clock correctly or downloaded any guide information. My zip code is 25705.....is there something I am doing wrong? Or with the digital transition is it not going to work?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Were you using the Sony successfully before, via OTA or otherwise? Or did you get the Sony just now, for your cable setup? Is your cable service analog or digital?

For what it's worth, according to http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos your PBS station (WPBY, OTA channel 33.x) is supposed to be carrying TVGOS data for your area. Whether Comcast passes that data through is another matter.

How about if they add an antenna for the TVGOS?

And would they be able to successfully map the QAM's then, if they're using a straight coax feed? I've never really used mine that way (or with cable, period), so I'm not sure of any of that myself.

Were you using the Sony successfully before, via OTA or otherwise? Or did you get the Sony just now, for your cable setup? Is your cable service analog or digital?

For what it's worth, according to your PBS station (WPBY, OTA channel 33.x) is supposed to be carrying TVGOS data for your area. Whether Comcast passes that data through is another matter.

I used it for OTA & the guide quit working in June at the switchover.....I just got cable a few weeks ago & Hooked up the Sony unit about a week ago. I have analog service....it picks up whatever digital isn't scrambled...locals etc...

How would I find that out? Would Comcast even know?

I have coax coming out of the wall into a spliter...1 line going to the tv...the other into the sony DVR....HMDI connecting DVR to TV

I used it for OTA & the guide quit working in June at the switchover.....I just got cable a few weeks ago & Hooked up the Sony unit about a week ago. I have analog service....it picks up whatever digital isn't scrambled...locals etc...

How would I find that out? Would Comcast even know?

I have coax coming out of the wall into a spliter...1 line going to the tv...the other into the sony DVR....HMDI connecting DVR to TV

Welcome to the AVS forum. I am not familiar with cable issues, but the fact that it quit working OTA in June suggests to me that your Sony DVR has not been updated to the new firmware released a few months ago. Have you updated the Sony firmware? An alternative is to perform the g*test. Your Sony DVR needed you to do one of these procedures to enable it to acquire TV guide data from an OTA digital channel.

I used it for OTA & the guide quit working in June at the switchover.....I just got cable a few weeks ago & Hooked up the Sony unit about a week ago. I have analog service....it picks up whatever digital isn't scrambled...locals etc...

How would I find that out? Would Comcast even know?

I have coax coming out of the wall into a spliter...1 line going to the tv...the other into the sony DVR....HMDI connecting DVR to TV

You can find most answers about 'how to' for your DHG here:
http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php

I never felt that Rovi or Sony would add a "manual clock set" to keep our units from becoming a brick. It's not trivial to add interactive screens and time zones and DST shifting and..... Ok, other DVR's have been doing it for years, but that's beside the point. But they did add the .21 digital update. That is cause for hope I think.

I do however believe it's not THAT hard for Sony to let us select a station's PSIP data for time. That's not much different than XDS. One more option on the setup menu. Piece of cake. About 50% of my cable supplied analog channels show call letters and time on my Sony TV, so the technology for PSIP decoding exists at Sony and doesn't seem to be blocked (so far).

Are you listening Sony???????

I used it for OTA & the guide quit working in June at the switchover.....I just got cable a few weeks ago & Hooked up the Sony unit about a week ago. I have analog service....it picks up whatever digital isn't scrambled...locals etc...

The first thing I would do is find out if any stations are actually carrying TVGOS OTA in your area. Then (if you find one), check if Comcast is passing the signal through.

Can you still hook up an antenna to the Sony, and get a signal on 33.1? That's the first place I'd look. Here's how to check for digital TVGOS:

1. Tune to the channel you want to check.

2. Go into the TV Guide, click over to the SETUP screen, then click down once to highlight the first choice (Change System Settings), but don't click the SELECT button to open it.

3. Enter the number sequence 753159852. You'll get a plain text diagnostic screen.

4. Click down three times. You should get a screen that says "Section ATSC - ATSC Slicer" at the top. Look at the third column of numbers (CurrChan), in the rows labeled "TVG" and "Tot Sections". If you have TVGOS data, the counts should increment regularly, a few counts every second or two.

5. When you're done checking this station, hit the EXIT button on the remote and you'll go back to whatever channel you're tuned to.

You can also try the other HD channels you can get, both OTA and cable. If you can find TVGOS data on some channel, then it's probably possible to get it to work on the Sony, but it may take some effort and/or patience. The exact route depends on what you find.

At this point I have pretty much given up hope that Rovi has any interest in addressing TVGOS service for Houston - regarding the Sony DVR.

All TVGOS devices should be able to set HostChannel in 24 hours; not 2, 3, or 4 months - if ever?

Welcome to the AVS forum. I am not familiar with cable issues, but the fact that it quit working OTA in June suggests to me that your Sony DVR has not been updated to the new firmware released a few months ago. Have you updated the Sony firmware? An alternative is to perform the g*test. Your Sony DVR needed you to do one of these procedures to enable it to acquire TV guide data from an OTA digital channel.

Thank you...

How do I update it or do the "g*test"?

so back to an old problem with my Sony...

2 weeks in a row, although "Heroes" was set to be recorded weekly, the setting was removed when it was updated on the day of the episode...last week I didn't notice that until it was three quarters of the way through the 2-hr opening episode...this evening I noticed it at 1 minute in, so it wasn't so bad...

it's a pain having to check something like this daily...though it seems only to be Heroes that it has it in for...
When I got my 250, Jan 2006, I saw this sort of distressing behavior. Sony knew nothing about it, so I didn't take them up on their offer of my sending the box back so they could reload it. (Didn't want to give it up during the new season.)

So I started monitoring the recording schedule EVERY MORNING, looking for disappeared scheduled recording to restore. After a few weeks of this, I noticed the pattern. When a weekly show wasn't recorded on purpose, either because I asked to skip the recording of a repeat, or because the show wasn't broadcast that week, SOMETHING WOULD DISAPPEAR.

Just re-scheduling wasn't sufficient. Sometimes, something else would immediately disappear, and I'd have to re-schedule that as well. Ultimately, I resorted to simply reviewing the recording schedule every Sunday evening, and DELETING shows that I wanted to skip, or that weren't being shown that week. A slight pain, but never lost one (that I've noticed) since.

Perhaps manual recording would be a better alternative, as already suggested, but I like having the recordings with titles saved more.

Perhaps manual recording would be a better alternative, as already suggested, but I like having the recordings with titles saved more.

I too prefer titled recordings, but a recording without title is much better than no recording. By setting up a manual recording before a guide set recording, your program will have a much higher probability of being recorded, and you get the title stuff if the guide behaves.

When there is a guide problem, it's very easy to obtain the title later from either the date/time/channel information or by play back for a few seconds; then note it down in a log for future reference.
Ray

...
So I started monitoring the recording schedule EVERY MORNING, looking for disappeared scheduled recording to restore. After a few weeks of this, I noticed the pattern. When a weekly show wasn't recorded on purpose, either because I asked to skip the recording of a repeat, or because the show wasn't broadcast that week, SOMETHING WOULD DISAPPEAR.

Perhaps manual recording would be a better alternative, as already suggested, but I like having the recordings with titles saved more.
this is unlike my problem...I will have a show scheduled to record weekly, and - although the show is NEW - on the day it is supposed to record - the item will suddenly no longer be marked for recording in the guide...so, unless I happen to have checked on it earlier in the day (or evening), I'll get no recording.

For example, it has done this TWICE to me on Heroes, beginning with the new episodes this season, and I think it just did it to me on Brothers and Sisters....but OTHER programs seem completely stable...

a real pain...!

so anyway, before I leave on a trip in a couple of days, I think I will set them in particular manually, deleting the setting on the guide screen...

(I don't have this particular problem with my 3410a, a somewhat older unit.. - though I have another problem...)

Setting things manually with 3 people in the household, and then keeping track of stuff is AWFUL!

Tony

this is unlike my problem...I will have a show scheduled to record weekly, and - although the show is NEW - on the day it is supposed to record - the item will suddenly no longer be marked for recording in the guide...so, unless I happen to have checked on it earlier in the day (or evening), I'll get no recording.

For example, it has done this TWICE to me on Heroes, beginning with the new episodes this season, and I think it just did it to me on Brothers and Sisters....but OTHER programs seem completely stable...

a real pain...!

so anyway, before I leave on a trip in a couple of days, I think I will set them in particular manually, deleting the setting on the guide screen...

(I don't have this particular problem with my 3410a, a somewhat older unit.. - though I have another problem...)

Setting things manually with 3 people in the household, and then keeping track of stuff is AWFUL!

Tony
My 250 would fail to record programs sometimes also, I set mine to record R instead of W,never had anymore problem with it, got ever show weekly.

My 250 would fail to record programs sometimes also, I set mine to record R instead of W,never had anymore problem with it, got ever show weekly.
hm....I thought I tried that last year, but maybe I'll try it again...

Thank you...

How do I update it or do the "g*test"?

I have not updated my unit to the new software, so I'll just give you the Sony website address for the software download with instructions:

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-download.pl?mdl=DHGHDD250&upd_id=4542&os_id=25

If you update the Sony firmware, you do not need to run the g*test--it is not useful once you have updated the Sony firmware. Tjbell gives you useful info in post #18992 to check if you are receiving TVGOS data.

To perform the G* Factory Test using old Sony firmware, do the following:

1. Tune to the channel you think is the TV guide provider in your area.

Note: Tjbell posted: "For what it's worth, according to http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos your PBS station (WPBY, OTA channel 33.x) is supposed to be carrying TVGOS data for your area. Whether Comcast passes that data through is another matter."

2. Press the following buttons on your remote:

"Menu" (near center of remote),
"Screen Mode" (top left of remote),
"9","0","1","2"

3. After you finish typing the last digit, your menu will change. Select "TV Guide" at the bottom of the menu.

4. On the next menu select "G* Factory Test" at the bottom of the menu.

5. The G*Test will start. You may see VBI packets counting up. To exit the test, press the "Exit" button (near center of remote).

If you don't see VBI packets counting up after 30 seconds, exit the G*Test and run it a second time. VBI packets should start counting up. If you don't see VBI packets the 2nd time, your are not receiving TVGOS data from the channel you are currently tuned to.

Your unit should be able to update the TV Guide listings from a digital host after you have successfully run the G*Test. Your unit can only update TV Guide data when it is in standby mode, or when it is tuned to your TVGOS host channel if it is turned on.

If you don't update the Sony firmware and you have to reboot your unit for any reason, you will have to run the g*test over again to enable you Sony DVR to receive TV guide data from a digital host channel again.

Rob