Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread [Text View] - Page 81

TheRatPatrol

01-23-10, 11:53 AM

wow
your right on
I still have no grid after 5 days in phoenix OTA
I'm mega impressed at your sleuthing ability
so...does anybody have a guess to how long it takes to get a grid in phoenix
I have the time after 24 hours
I had commercials after 36 hours but no sign of a grid
thanks for any deductions or extra sleuthing done on my behalf
jim
I'm in Phoenix too. It might take days. The first time I lost my grid I waited 15 days, and it never came back. So I said screw it and bought and Artec. I lost my grid the other day due to a reset, and had to hook it up again. I got it back within 24 hours.

I highly recommend buying an Artec, this will get you grid back in 24 hours. Heres a link to it (http://www.meritline.com/artec-t3apr-t-tvr-dtv-converter-box-with-tv-guide---p-34159.aspx). Make sure you get the one that has TV Guide built into it.

Heres the instructions (http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=188.0) on how to hook up and use the Artec to get your grid back.

Note: this is just my opinion on how to get your grid back in a short period of time. Others on here have lost their grids and have gotten it back without the Artec. I tried that and it didn't come back for me. So you can either wait and see what happens, or try the Artec.

videobruce

01-23-10, 01:47 PM

I second the above. I have used the 'Artec jump start' method a half a dozen times in the past 6 or 9 months. I have three devices that use TVGOS.

pedrojunkie; I just sent one in. I will report back on the results. Apparent flat rate of around $155. including return shipping .

Rammitinski

01-23-10, 04:27 PM

I have used the 'Artec jump start' method a half a dozen times in the past 6 or 9 months. I have three devices that us TVGOS.Don't want to hijack the thread, but just curious - have you had any success using one to "convert" the digtal guide data for any purely analog-tunered recorders with TVGOS (and if so, what guide versions do they use)?

videobruce

01-23-10, 04:39 PM

Most often this box is used, it's doing a digital to anlog conversion for the Guide data. I suppose I could leave it there, but there is no need to. After the Grid appears, it's back in the box it goes.

I will assume the guys with that Goldstar DVR that uses V7 of the Guide would leave it in line since V7 will not work with a digital host (so I have read). I haven't looked at that thread to see what they are doing for their situation since it seems to be a full time job just keeping my own Guides up and running. :o

This last time was because of a bad controller board in one of mt AVHDDs' causing the 1394 ports in my Mits DLP to get disabled. I had to do a 'Initialize' to restore those ports which dumps everything else (except calibration).

TheRatPatrol

01-23-10, 06:21 PM

HoustonPerson

01-24-10, 07:11 AM

I just found out tonight my friend (who also lives in Phoenix) lost his grid (two weeks ago, the same time I did) and wasn't able to get it back. So he sent it into Sony. Not sure if Sony told him to or if he just did it on his own. Unfortunately I wasn't able to stop him before he sent it off.

My question is, what exactly is Sony going to do to get the grid back? How can they get his local grid back if he sends it to a different location?

Thoughts? :confused:

Thanks

That is an excellent question; What does Sony do? Exactly?

Over the last year they have ask me to send mine in, 3 times I think; but no one there can tell me what they do and because their front line telephone support provides no real technical support there is no reason to send it in – at least yet.

I am under the impression that the Grid is just 30 min segments 8 days across, and 900? lines down. And once that pattern is there it merely fills in with your local data and truncates the excess lines? Then as long as you have a Grid you can move anywhere, changes zip codes and be fine. On the other hand places like Houston, once Reset Factory Defaults is performed you are toast without the jump start. Perhaps, Sony can put in a Grid stub, and when the repaired unit comes back to home base, you enter the zip code and all is fine?

Rumors:

There have been a couple of reports that Sony could not do the repairs for some?

In other cases Sony had to send the box to McAllen after the repairs in order to build the Grid? Mexico analogue?

Some have hinted that there is some type of “tuner upgrade” being performed at Sony Repairs? Who knows how real that is? Or if it is just the .21 firmware?

And in other cases all has been just fine after repairs?

Videobruce, will let us know about his experience when he gets his DHG back from Sony, say 3-4 weeks? Hopefully the repair ticket will have some concrete information.

HoustonPerson

01-24-10, 07:17 AM

BTW, I finally got "ONE" DPP in the last 10 days and HostSUFlag finally went to 0xe68, from 0xe48. That is the first time HostSUFlag has gotten to that level in January (without the Artec). EPP's had been dead for 2 days, but got 4 in the last 12 hours.

IMHO, think it is strictly a matter of Rovi's "Fine Tunning" the local station to make the DHG work correctly on it's own.

TheRatPatrol

01-24-10, 12:39 PM

That is an excellent question; What does Sony do? Exactly?
Maybe they upgrade the firmware with something we can't upgrade ourselves? Wasn't someone talking about a V9 upgrade in the newer TVGOS equipment that the Sony couldn't upgrade on its own? I don't know. :confused:

geeg

01-24-10, 03:28 PM

just a follow up
I ordered the artec on saturday but sunday morning I woke and on day 7 my grid and listings were back by themselves
I don't regret the purchase...it seems that this happens often enough that I'm sure it will come in handy
too bad sony couldn't do a software or firmware fix to stop the problem from occuring in the first place
My thanks to all of you
I'm constantly amazed that folks like you take the time to help idiots like me with their problems with no hope of compensation
unsung heroes
thanks again
jim

AustinLarry

01-26-10, 01:58 AM

JoeKustra

01-26-10, 09:32 AM

I noticed Sunday that my dhg's time was 10 minutes slow. I'd seen it 6 minutes slow one weekend about a month ago, but it had corrected itself by Monday. This time, however, it remained wrong, causing my recordings to all start 10 minutes late.

I've just sent a note to our local cbs, hoping that there is something simple they can do to propogate the correct time of day once they notice the error. I assume this is a purely local error, but I thought I should ask: is anyone else seeing this problem in Austin? Anywhere else?

I assume the only way to get a correct clock is from my TVGOS provider. I'll post any response I get from keyetv.

Thanks - Larry

You are correct - the only way your clock is set is to get it from your TVGOS provider. But while waiting for a response from your local feed, you could see if there is more wrong. Are you still getting listings? Check day 8. When was the last clock set ("Last Cset")? On the Clocks 2 screen you can, when tuned to your host, watch time packets with the field NSane. I'm not in Austin but I believe Rovi sends all time (if they do) as UTC, then it lets your unit fix it locally.

Rovi likes to mess things up on weekends. Usually they fix it when they come back to work on Monday. Usually.

bretski

01-26-10, 10:19 AM

Hi, Newbie poster here. I have 2 Sony HD-DG 500 dvrs, plus an older Sony SD 160 gig dvr/dvd recorder combo. The older one is starting to have problems burning dvds from the dvr, but records directly to dvd ok.

My question relates to the newer HD units: is there a repair company that can hack an output on these units so I can connect it to a Mac or pc, then transfer the data to the computer and burn dvds?

My understanding is the info is recorded on the dvr's hard drive in MPEG2 format. Is this so? If so, then if I could hook the dvr up to my Mac, it should recognize it as an external set of drives.

My goal is to have the ability to offload/archive what's on the dvr hard drives.

There is a USB port on the HD-DG 500 unit but my understanding is it is only used for firmware upgrade -- is this true, or will it function as an output?

I know, a bunch of questions but they all relate to one issue. Thanks for your help. Mark

Hi Mark,

Unfortunately, the questions you ask are somewhat of a "holy grail" for these units. Many, including myself, have searched (in vain) for a way to offload recordings directly from the drives. Sony hacked the FS on the drives, effectively locking them down.

The USB port is there for diagnostics and firmware. That's it.

As far as offloading the data for archive, I have a solution, but it involves another piece of hardware. The Hauppauge HD-PVR. More info in an old post from me here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15290590#post15290590

I haven't been on the forum in quite some time, but it looks like several others are also now using this as their archiving solution. Good luck!

AustinLarry

01-26-10, 02:10 PM

Jetra Vard

01-27-10, 04:13 PM

HoustonPerson

01-27-10, 04:52 PM

DHG-500
Firmware-1.02.05
In 753 Menu there is a [3] after the date
Tvgos software-08.01.42/08.06.44
Houston
Host Channel 11.1

The unit has been working perfectly since the cutoff save for the need to run G* after resets to get a clock/populated grid, which I didn't have to do before.

Yesterday my 500 unit repeatedly reset several times in a row before finally stopping.
The grid is gone and says "There is no data for this screen" I'm receiving VBI packets according to the G* test.

Now the clock sets automatically again after resets like it did before the cutoff without having to use G*, even while running the ancient 1.02.05 firmware.

From what I've read it sounds like I'm on track to get my grid back eventually.What's the best route? Should I tune to 11.1 and leave the unit on or turn it off? Do I need to download the latest firmware or stick with the old which seems like it should still work? What exactly are the benefits of the latest firmware? As a last resort I might look into this Artec device.

I've already done one overnight with the unit off with no change.

Your TVGOS should bump up to 08.01.71/08.06.44. You may need one or two more executions of G Test to get it to do that, over a 12 hour period or so. Or install the .21 Sony upgrade, and it will do that on its own.

Installing the .21 Sony update will eliminate the requirement of running G test. The .21 allows the Sony box to process the digital stream.

Houston appears to still have a problem. It is possible to get a grid back, but the amount of time to do so can take months – if ever. Artec is one way to get it back fast, typically about 12 hours for Houston.

It appears Rovi has been doing a good bit of “fine tunning” for Houston the last two months. And I have seen a lot of changes the last 10 days. I am not at all surprised about the “resets” you have gotten; with the number of major changes I have seen. Still the “magic bullet” has not yet been found for Grid building from scratch.

I have sent you a PM.

Possumgirl

01-27-10, 06:30 PM

Your TVGOS should bump up to 08.01.71/08.06.44.

Wrong. 08.01.42 is the base version for his firmware. It will not "bump up" by itself. The only way to get the base version of 08.01.71 is to install the latest .21 firmware from Sony.

Jetra Vard

01-27-10, 07:04 PM

Just wasted time installing .13 before I realized it wasn't the latest, searching for a link to .21 now.....

JoeKustra

01-27-10, 07:19 PM

Just wasted time installing .13 before I realized it wasn't the latest, searching for a link to .21 now.....

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-list.pl?mdl=DHGHDD250&SelectOS=25#div_pos_98

Jetra Vard

01-27-10, 07:31 PM

Found it, but thanks Joe. I'm now at the latest build. The clock was about 20 min. off but G* fixed that. Now all I can do is wait, right?

Jetra Vard

01-27-10, 07:36 PM

Spoke too soon, no vbi data so I'm doing the 963 code on 11.1

Possumgirl

01-27-10, 07:46 PM

Spoke too soon, no vbi data so I'm doing the 963 code on 11.1

Once you are using the .21 firmware you won't see VBI counts on the G* test screen anymore. Use the ATSC Slicer screen to see activity.

Jetra Vard

01-27-10, 07:59 PM

Ah, I see. Thanks Possumgirl, reading up on the slicer screen as it's showing no activity....

Jetra Vard

01-27-10, 08:14 PM

I tried a post that suggested tuning to the host channel, waiting for the channel info box to appear then disappear, and then going to the slicer menu. After 3 tries I'm getting activity under tvg/tot sections/dummy in the Since Cold and CurrChan columns.

So I guess I'm all set & have done all I can do to try to get my grid back. Thanks everyone for your help.

HoustonPerson

01-28-10, 07:57 AM

Wrong. 08.01.42 is the base version for his firmware. It will not "bump up" by itself. The only way to get the base version of 08.01.71 is to install the latest .21 firmware from Sony.

Yes you are correct, another one of my brain malfunctions. .21 is required to get to 08.01.71

jklaffen

01-28-10, 01:11 PM

Possumgirl

01-28-10, 02:49 PM

Some general questions for OTA:

- Should I see the VBI test under G*factory test ever pass when tuned to a digital station, or does this only apply to analog and I should look at the ATSC Slicer page? Does SCTE-127 allow this to pass when tuned to the digital station carrying the TVGOS data?
If you have installed the latest Sony firmware (the .21 version), you will not see pass or activity using the G* test on your digital host. If you have an earlier version of the firmware then you will see the pass/activity on that screen. The ATSC Slicer screen is really the best way to see if you are receiving the TVGOS data stream from a digital channel, but you need the .21 firmware to have that screen. I don't think the DHG does anything directly with the SCTE-127 data stream. If I'm wrong on that someone will correct me. :D

- Can the clock set channel be different than the TVGOS host channel when only digital channels are available?
I suppose it's possible to be different if more than one TVGOS channel is available in your area. Usually they will be the same; however you may see either the actual RF channel or the mapped virtual channel for the host station.

- What does the suffix 0 or 1 mean when I see 0:10-1 and 0:10-0 for clock or host? We have a 10.1 digital but no analog 10 in this area (San Diego).
10-0 is the actual RF channel, 10-1 is the mapped channel. But I thought ch. 10 was ABC and the host channel for San Diego was XETV??? :confused:

- What does it mean when the host channel is blank, or you see fffffffd?

Thanks!
If you have a grid and listings, a blank host is no big deal. Mine come and go all the time. The fffffffd is usually the result from running the G* test and then looking at the 753... screens without having stopped the test. It's harmless.

jklaffen

01-28-10, 03:58 PM

Possumgirl

01-28-10, 05:10 PM

Possumgirl,
Thanks for the quick response.

- I am running .21 FW, so have the latest. One thing I've noticed with the VBI test is that sometimes you will get 1023-65533 and sometimes the channel number. In this case, if tune to 10.1, I'll see 10.1 instead of 1023-65533. Tuning to 6.1 gives me 1023-65533.

- Yes, I'm in San Diego and have confirmed with XETV's engineer that channel 6 analog and 6.1 digital are carrying TVGOS, but my host channel will come up as 0:10-0 and clock set channel also as 0:10-0. I have guide data that appears to update and a clock, but the clock is slow by about 5-6 minutes. Running the VBI test seems to correct the time, by either changing my clock set channel to fffffffd or 0:6-1. But unfortunately, the clock will eventually change to 0:10-0 and be slow again...

It seems that if you look at the slicer screen and see updates to TVG/tot sections, then this indicates you are getting guide data?

Thanks

Yes, on the slicer screen when tuned to the digital host, you should see activity in the CurrChannel column for those fields and a couple others. That indicates the presence of the TVGOS data stream. Doesn't necessarily mean there's any update activity going on right then.

What I meant to say earlier about seeing fffffffd is that if the G* test gives you 1023-65533 instead of the channel number, then both the clock set channel and the VBI channel will display that.

I have no idea about the ch. 10 thing and the slow clock. There are some other members here in the San Diego area so perhaps they'll stop by and shed some light on that. :)

stjefrey

01-28-10, 06:25 PM

TheRatPatrol

01-28-10, 08:12 PM

stjefrey

01-28-10, 08:26 PM

daleebob

01-28-10, 11:03 PM

HoustonPerson

01-29-10, 07:25 AM

I purchased the Artec back in November to get a grid for my sony 250. It worked and I was happy. However, last week I lost the grid and I'm having trouble getting a new grid. As far as remember, I'm doing the same thing that I did a few months back. I'm not getting the grid for the Artec or Sony.

Any Ideas?

1. make sure your ARtec is in TVGuide mode and always leave it "on" while the Sony box is off
2. are you getting EPPs and DPP's? What level does your VBIState reach and what level does your HostSUFlag reach?

HoustonPerson

01-29-10, 07:27 AM

Is there ANYONE out there NOT having problems? It seems that my listings populate Wednesday through Saturday. Sunday through Tuesday (at some point) my listings disappear. So, I've left the unit on all day/night. However, the next morning, the unit has shut off.

I think there's something going on here intentionally-why would the listings populate fully, then disappear?

The "auto" shut off is normal (inside the Sony set up sections)?

Seems a few cities are having some different issues? Hard to say?

JoeKustra

01-29-10, 08:49 AM

Is there ANYONE out there NOT having problems? It seems that my listings populate Wednesday through Saturday. Sunday through Tuesday (at some point) my listings disappear. So, I've left the unit on all day/night. However, the next morning, the unit has shut off.

I think there's something going on here intentionally-why would the listings populate fully, then disappear?

I haven't had any TVGOS problems since 11/2009 when I had to do a front panel reset of all three of my units. They still get the front panel clock slow by one minute sometimes, but viewing my host with the 9012 menu gets it back in sync with the internal time.

HoustonPerson

01-29-10, 11:31 AM

I conected the the antenna feed to the artec and passed through to the Sony. The Sony is on channel 3 for pass through. I get ads and the clock time is right. I believe the problem is with the Artec. So I did a reset, rescan and set it up for the guide + mode. I'm still getting nothing? It's been hook up since Sunday.

Also, if you are actually using “pass through” - Ant Fed to Artec then to Sony Ant..........I can guarantee it will not work correctly. Some RF's will pass through others will not when Artec is set to TVGOS mode - can guarantee that one too. Yes you will be able to make a grid that way; but the Sony box will not function correctly. The first problem to arise is that the Guide is "not" able to map correctly, it goes downhill quickly from there.

Possumgirl

01-29-10, 12:56 PM

Is there ANYONE out there NOT having problems? It seems that my listings populate Wednesday through Saturday. Sunday through Tuesday (at some point) my listings disappear. So, I've left the unit on all day/night. However, the next morning, the unit has shut off.

I think there's something going on here intentionally-why would the listings populate fully, then disappear?

Disable your Auto-Off. Press Menu on remote. Preferences>>System>>Auto Off>>Off.

BTW, my units have no problems, even after a couple extended power outages this past week (a highly unusual event around here).

AtlantisMichael

01-29-10, 04:32 PM

Just started having an issue with my 500. While watching a recorded show, I am having some popping and pixel on out to a greenish overlay on the program. Does not last too long, maybe a minute at most. This has happen on two different playbacks. Checked and it was in the same spot on the show each time. Hard Drive starting to go? Any ideas?
Michael

TheRatPatrol

01-29-10, 05:06 PM

bfdtv

01-29-10, 05:57 PM

Does anyone recall the make/model of the decoder or cpu inside the Sony HDD250/500? Does someone have any shots of the Sony's internals?

WS65711

01-29-10, 06:18 PM

Here are pictures that I've collected from various places on the internet (probably mostly from this thread). None show the processor unobscured by the heatsink . . .

WS65711

01-29-10, 06:19 PM

More . . .

WS65711

01-29-10, 06:21 PM

And the rest . . .

stjefrey

01-29-10, 07:23 PM

What does the green button do?

WS65711

01-29-10, 08:20 PM

The silkscreen is marked "Reset" near the green button. I suppose that is what it does.

TIGERFAN

01-30-10, 11:26 AM

TheRatPatrol

01-30-10, 12:02 PM

Regarding my post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17988816#post17988816) about my friend sending his unit into Sony to have the grid fixed, well, bad news, looks like we won't know what Sony would have done to fix his no grid problem.

Heres his email to me:

UPS apparently destroyed it. I don't know the details but Sony claims it arrived with the front panel smashed with masking tape on it??? They say it can't be fixed. I guess I have to do a damage claim when it gets back early next week.

WS65711

01-30-10, 12:20 PM

HoustonPerson

01-30-10, 12:34 PM

HoustonPerson

01-30-10, 12:48 PM

hey guys,................. I plan on upgrading my tv to a Panasonic 65VT25 when it comes out. Will the picture quality be effected by the DHG due to its highest resolution is 1080i. The TV will be a 1080p panel. I guess my question is will the DHG limit my picture quality vs. cox cable's box. Does this sound like a smart move or am I wasting my time with this box.

Pardon my ignorance,

Tigerfan

I currently have a Pana 800U - stunning - you can connect to the Pana via component and specifically control the Sony setting to 1080i (and also various automatic choices) the pana will make it 1080p OR you can connect via HDMI and the Sony should default to AutoHDMI and automatically send either 720p or 1080i based on the source and the pana will still convert to 1080p, OR if you have an AVR, the choices can become almost unlimited. Currently I use Sony AutoHDMI with toslink out for sound to Denon that receives that HDMI for video and the Toslink for DD5.1 sound; then of couse just HDMI from the Denon to the Pana - - I would not have it any other way.

There are many primetime shows OTA that we get, and virtually all major sporting events OTA when run via the Sony are nearly BluRay quality (sans the HD Audio of course). IMO the Sony is able to virtually duplicate the best 1080i OTA out there; your Pana will do the rest.

AFAIK the Sony will not degrad the cable either.

Perhaps the most important question is: Do you have a reliable TVGOS source? either OTA or cable?

TheRatPatrol

01-30-10, 12:51 PM

That could be a blessing, get another on ebay and start over?
Maybe. I asked him that but haven't heard back yet.

TIGERFAN

01-30-10, 01:20 PM

HoustonPerson

01-30-10, 02:28 PM

TIGERFAN

01-30-10, 03:13 PM

thanks..will do...

Tigerfan

bfdtv

01-30-10, 03:28 PM

Here are pictures that I've collected from various places on the internet (probably mostly from this thread). None show the processor unobscured by the heatsink . . .Thanks. Sounds like perhaps the CPU/decoder in the Sony isn't known.

TheRatPatrol

01-30-10, 06:49 PM

That could be a blessing, get another on ebay and start over?
He bought a new one off of Ebay.

pf2008

01-30-10, 08:27 PM

Possumgirl,
Thanks for the quick response.

- I am running .21 FW, so have the latest. One thing I've noticed with the VBI test is that sometimes you will get 1023-65533 and sometimes the channel number. In this case, if tune to 10.1, I'll see 10.1 instead of 1023-65533. Tuning to 6.1 gives me 1023-65533.

- Yes, I'm in San Diego and have confirmed with XETV's engineer that channel 6 analog and 6.1 digital are carrying TVGOS, but my host channel will come up as 0:10-0 and clock set channel also as 0:10-0. I have guide data that appears to update and a clock, but the clock is slow by about 5-6 minutes. Running the VBI test seems to correct the time, by either changing my clock set channel to fffffffd or 0:6-1. But unfortunately, the clock will eventually change to 0:10-0 and be slow again...

It seems that if you look at the slicer screen and see updates to TVG/tot sections, then this indicates you are getting guide data?

Thanks

I'm in San Diego, using Time Warner Cable to my Sony DHG. It stays on cable/analog XETV 6 for both host channel and clock set channel. I've never had a problem with a slow clock.

However, recently I had several incidents with the infamous "lockup" problem, where it would become completely unresponsive while recording. Twice I tried the standard repair steps from Spiff's site (which had worked great for me a couple of years ago). Both times recently, though, it would immediately go back into the lockup state. I had downloaded the new .21 firmware, and it would ping-pong between analog XETV 6 and a few digital sources of TVGOS data. I suspect that was the problem.

So rather than try the same thing again (you know the old saying about doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result...), I did a full factory reset. This reverted me to the 8.01.42 TVGOS firmware, which prefers analog. It immediately found XETV 6, downloaded everything it needed, had me a host and grid in about 12 hours, and is partying like it's 2008.

I don't know if others in San Diego are having similar problems. But as long as XETV is delivering analog TVGOS data (whether they say they strip it out or not), I'm going to stick with the old firmware and not do the G* test on any digital stations.

JoeKustra

01-31-10, 12:39 AM

hey guys, I've been thinking bout getting the sony 250/500 on ebay but have some questions. I plan on using this device with the cablecard from cox cable to save on equipment fees. I would only pay the rental for the cablecard 1.99/month. I noticed many users here are mostly using this for OTA. That is not my intentions as I will be using a cablecard and with TVGos I will be getting the guide which I am not getting with the cablecard setup with my tv. I plan on upgrading my tv to a Panasonic 65VT25 when it comes out. Will the picture quality be effected by the DHG due to its highest resolution is 1080i. The TV will be a 1080p panel. I guess my question is will the DHG limit my picture quality vs. cox cable's box. Does this sound like a smart move or am I wasting my time with this box.

Pardon my ignorance,

Tigerfan

Well, if you don't have a TVGOS feed from your cable supplier in NOLA, then you might want to pass on this box. I wish there was an inexpensive way to find out if the DHG will find a host channel, but their isn't. Maybe someone here has Cox Cable in your area. Change your UserCP to add your location. I get the feed to make my DHG work (clock set) from an analog channel which could evaporate at any time. For now I'm happy and the 1080i output feeds my XBR9 via HDMI without any problems. I send the optical output to my 5.1 receiver for great sound. You could go the Moxi/Tivo route, but you will have to decide if the cost is going to give you what you need.

WS65711

01-31-10, 09:17 AM

TigerFan -
Cox Cable New Orleans does pass thru the TVGOS data from both WWL-DT and WYES-HD. As I indicated earlier however, the major PITA problem that I have had (on the Northshore with Charter Cable) is that Charter seems to randomly send these "magic bullets" down the line, causing the DVR to lose it's Grid, lose it's Channel ordering, or turn "On" a gazillion channels that I had turned off. Also, the fact that the CableCard is installed causes "recording one show while watching another recording" impossible due to lockups. None of these issues were problems for me before the CableCard installations. BTW, I have three HDD500's and these problems occur randomly on all three units. I also have two TV's that can use CableCard, and a card is installed in one of them. The TV uses V-9.1.56 TVGOS and does not exhibit the same "magic bullet" symptoms that the V-8.1.71 DVR's exhibit.

Also, the Sony DVR will work fine for QAM with Cox, but the only HD channels you will be able to get are the locals.

ChrisS5

01-31-10, 09:37 AM

bretski

01-31-10, 10:14 AM

I am now having problems locating one of the buttons I use most, the "next" button. It is located at the bottom of the DHG's remote. I have found the "prev" button commands...In the Harmony it is the "back" command. I have tried several different setting, but can't seem to find the right one.

Can anyone point me in the right direction in getting the "next" button functionality on my Harmony?

Not sure why you are having a problem...I use a Harmony 550 and have "Prev" and "Next" assigned to the A and B buttons on the bottom of the Harmony. Are you just not able to find "Next" in the Harmony software drop-down lists?

ChrisS5

01-31-10, 10:27 AM

Not sure why you are having a problem...I use a Harmony 550 and have "Prev" and "Next" assigned to the A and B buttons on the bottom of the Harmony. Are you just not able to find "Next" in the Harmony software drop-down lists?

That is it. The "prev" and "next" were not assigned by default on the Harmony. I had to make buttons for them, and can not find the "next" in the drop down list. Looks like I will have to learn from my exisiting remote and call it something else, like "scan" maybe.

bretski

01-31-10, 10:47 AM

That is it. The "prev" and "next" were not assigned by default on the Harmony. I had to make buttons for them, and can not find the "next" in the drop down list. Looks like I will have to learn from my exisiting remote and call it something else, like "scan" maybe.

Hmmmm....it's been so long since I originally programmed the remote, I don't remember if the Prev and Next were always there, or if they are learned functions. I just fired up the Harmony remote software, and both Prev and Next are at the very bottom of my drop-downs. That tells me that they are probably learned functions.

So yeah, get your original remote out and do the learning function for those two. As I mentioned, I assigned those two functions to the A and B buttons on the bottom of my remote. YMMV with the Harmony model you own.

videobruce

01-31-10, 12:34 PM

WS65711 & bfdtv you have a PM.

mabuttra

01-31-10, 03:51 PM

I have finally taken the plunge and purchased a Harmony. (The wife having problems with the mulitiple remotes and inputs finally drove the purchase. :) )

I am now having problems locating one of the buttons I use most, the "next" button. It is located at the bottom of the DHG's remote. I have found the "prev" button commands...In the Harmony it is the "back" command. I have tried several different setting, but can't seem to find the right one.

Can anyone point me in the right direction in getting the "next" button functionality on my Harmony?

Thanks

On my Harmony, the Prev button is listed as the 'Skip Back' button, which maps to the ChapterPrevious command in the drop down, and the Next button is listed as the 'Skip Forward' button, which is mapped to the ChapterNext command in the drop down. I don't remember having to mess with those two settings at all (they were already setup that way in the remote software).

Edit: I have the model 670 remote.

Mark

MISSY QUICK

01-31-10, 04:05 PM

Tigerfan -

I find my Sony's to be much less reliable with CableCards installed than they were without. I have three units, the oldest of which I have had for three years. The CableCards were just installed in October. Prior to the CableCards, I almost never had spontaneous reboots, or lockups while I tried to record one show while playing back another. And I never turned on a unit only to find the Guide channel list re-ordered, with multitudes of channels that I had turned "Off" suddenly mysteriously turned "On". I believe my Charter Cable periodically send some magic "bullet" down the line just to mess with me . . . :rolleyes:

I have Cablevision and I have the same problem with the two units that have cablecards. I have lockups, channel list messed up and channels turned off when they weren't before. I have two units without cablecards and never seem to have this problem. Have never been able to understand this.

MQ

Opinionated

01-31-10, 04:36 PM

thx for quick replies...so now I know picture quality won't be affected. I rarely have problems with cox cable's cablecard installed in my 60xbr1. But that doesn't mean anything..Do anyone have cablecard from cox cable installed in the Sony DHG250/500? And is their a lot of hiccups? I'm from the New Orleans area. Hope cox gets it together.

Tigerfan

You need to be aware of the possibility of a 161-6 error with Cablecards. It's not discussed here anymore, but was a huge topic in the past- and maybe current cards are not a problem- (does anyone know?)- but certain CC's don't work well with the SONY and the only cure is to send the DVR for a modification by Sony.

What kind of card does COX use? I believe Scientific Atlanta (now Cisco) cards were a problem.

mabuttra

01-31-10, 04:36 PM

[...]
...Charter seems to randomly send these "magic bullets" down the line, causing the DVR to lose it's Grid, lose it's Channel ordering, or turn "On" a gazillion channels that I had turned off. Also, the fact that the CableCard is installed causes "recording one show while watching another recording" impossible due to lockups. None of these issues were problems for me before the CableCard installations.
[...]

Could the "magic bullets" happen whenever the host channel sets? When ImTheOne briefly returned to the board about 6 months ago, he mentioned that he had to change his zip code to something outside of his area, because whenever his host channel set, he basically got a new channel lineup, and had to re-select his cable lineup. Also, it has always been suggested here (http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.0) (at the very bottom of the page), in the description of the lockup problem fix, that it may be caused by channels being added to the channel lineup. I don't know why this problem would have just started with your cablecard installations, unless the cablecard handling code in the Sony is buggy. This is all wild speculation of course.

Mark

Opinionated

01-31-10, 04:42 PM

WS65711

01-31-10, 06:37 PM

Could the "magic bullets" happen whenever the host channel sets? When ImTheOne briefly returned to the board about 6 months ago, he mentioned that he had to change his zip code to something outside of his area, because whenever his host channel set, he basically got a new channel lineup, and had to re-select his cable lineup. Also, it has always been suggested here (http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.0) (at the very bottom of the page), in the description of the lockup problem fix, that it may be caused by channels being added to the channel lineup. I don't know why this problem would have just started with your cablecard installations, unless the cablecard handling code in the Sony is buggy. This is all wild speculation of course.

Mark

It could be that its sometimes when the HostChan sets, but not every time. I thought about it being a lineup change, but I heven't been able to find any changes or new channels. Also, a lineup change would probably be sent to all units at (almost) the same time. This happens seemingly randomly to any of my units. Buggy cablecard code in the Sony might be right on the money . . . :o

TIGERFAN

02-01-10, 08:17 AM

videobruce

02-01-10, 09:39 AM

Look back a few dozen pages and the language gets deeper.
If you are looking for a plug and pray...., er, play STB, go with the TiVo HD or pay your provider $$ month after month after month for one of theirs like most Americans are doing feeding their (the MSOs') mouths.

But, if you want a challenge, you have come to the right place. :D

WaltA

02-01-10, 10:15 AM

... or pay your provider $$ month after month after month for one of theirs like most Americans are doing feeding their (the MSOs') mouths.

I would agree, though if I actually do the calculations, my cable company charges just $5/month over the cost of a STB w/o a DVR function. That's $60 per year.

Or it would take about ten years to match the cost of just one DHG-HDD250/500. :eek:

videobruce

02-01-10, 10:51 AM

But, we are talking about a DVR? How about $10, $12 or more a month?
But, you don't own it. You can't do what you want to it. It's the principle of the matter not feeding the MSO.
You can get one for just over $300 if you wait for the right deal and time. At $12- $15 a month, payback is around two years assuming rates don't increase. Not that that would ever happen. :D

WaltA

02-01-10, 11:26 AM

Again, for me, it is $5 more a month for a STB with a DVR function, than for a STB without a DVR function. And, with digital scrambling, I basically have to have a STB of one type or another.

At $5 a month, the pay even point is ten years. Comparing against buying a used DHG-HDD250/500 off eBay for around $500 - $600 (seems to be what auctions are ending, or Buy It Now).

And would a used DHG-HDD250/500 even last for another tens years w/o a problem? ;)

WS65711

02-01-10, 11:37 AM

Walt,

I gotta ask... why are you bothering to read/post in this forum?

bfdtv

02-01-10, 01:51 PM

Again, for me, it is $5 more a month for a STB with a DVR function, than for a STB without a DVR function. And, with digital scrambling, I basically have to have a STB of one type or another.
Huh?

Remember, if you buy your own CableCard DVR, it eliminates the need for the STB. CableCard DVRs are able directly tune all the same channels as the cable company boxes without a separate set-top box.

If your cable company charges $10 for the HD STB and $5-$12 for DVR service, then you save $15-$22/mo, minus the cost of the CableCard, which varies from $0 to $4/mo depending on the provider. With Comcast, the first CableCard is free with digital service.

With third-party DVRs, you often get more functionality, too. You aren't limited to the DVR functionality provided by the cable company.

videobruce

02-01-10, 02:48 PM

How many MSOs' charge just $5/month for a HD DVR?? :confused:

Opinionated

02-01-10, 02:52 PM

The DVR's provided by most cable companies, and even FIOS, have significantly smaller hard drives then the SONY. Many less hours of storage possible without extenders (and their hassle).

Personally, what I liked about the Sony- compared to a company provided or Tivo DVR- is the privacy. I just like the fact that our viewing habits- what we record- remains private. I hate the idea of being data mined if there was a record of everything.

videobruce

02-01-10, 03:02 PM

One argument for MSO provide DVRs' is, if it breaks (not your fault) or the model gets updated, all you have to do is just swap it out. You don't end up with a door stop due to planned CEA/MSO etc. obsolescence.

Blue Bell

02-01-10, 04:16 PM

I noticed Sunday that my dhg's time was 10 minutes slow. I'd seen it 6 minutes slow one weekend about a month ago, but it had corrected itself by Monday. This time, however, it remained wrong, causing my recordings to all start 10 minutes late.

I've just sent a note to our local cbs, hoping that there is something simple they can do to propogate the correct time of day once they notice the error. I assume this is a purely local error, but I thought I should ask: is anyone else seeing this problem in Austin? Anywhere else?

I assume the only way to get a correct clock is from my TVGOS provider. I'll post any response I get from keyetv.

Thanks - Larry

I have the same problem with my Sony in Austin. The time is off a couple of minutes on some days, but then corrects itself. BUT, on Sundays it usually continues to have the incorrect time. About every other Sunday I do a G* test and everything is fine. The clock gets the correct time in less than five minutes.

OTA
Sony DHG-HDD250

JoeKustra

02-01-10, 10:36 PM

What language are you guys speaking? J/k..:). Thanks again for your help. I'll keep this in mind while I'm searching for a box. Seems like you really need to know what you doing with this box. Not your simple plug and play.

Tigerfan

You said it perfectly. This is a hobby, not a toaster. But as a hobby I don't have to justify the time & money.

jtbell

02-03-10, 08:15 AM

Seems like you really need to know what you doing with this box. Not your simple plug and play.

It's definitely a matter of "your mileage may vary," depending on the host station in your area, and if you're using OTA broadcasts, how good your reception is, or if you're using cable, which company you're using and/or which region you're in.

My Sonys have been pretty much "plug and play" (OTA) for four years, except for April to July last year during the TVGOS analog-to-digital transition, after my analog host channel shut down and before Rovi/Macrovision got a digital one running near me so I didn't have to coax data from a more distant one.

wuzznmee

02-03-10, 09:54 AM

HoustonPerson

02-03-10, 10:34 AM

Possumgirl

02-03-10, 11:32 AM

WS65711

02-03-10, 11:58 AM

It's definitely a matter of "your mileage may vary," depending on the host station in your area, and if you're using OTA broadcasts, how good your reception is, or if you're using cable, which company you're using and/or which region you're in.

My Sonys have been pretty much "plug and play" (OTA) for four years, except for April to July last year during the TVGOS analog-to-digital transition, after my analog host channel shut down and before Rovi/Macrovision got a digital one running near me so I didn't have to coax data from a more distant one.

TigerFan will be pretty much "plug n' play" with Cox Cable QAM and OTA (either or both). But I believe he was asking about CableCard in his original postings. These DVR's seem to be an entirely different animal with CableCards installed. My units were "plug 'n play" before CableCard, but now they're more like "plug 'n pray", albeit my cable company is Charter not Cox like TigerFan's. :o

videobruce

02-03-10, 01:47 PM

My Sonys have been pretty much "plug and play" (OTA) for four years,....Up to a year or so ago maybe, but afterwards it;s been plug and pray. :(

Anyone ever had full listings with no ads??

wuzznmee

02-03-10, 02:06 PM

Now that I'm addicted to this sony 250 the remote decides to take a dump. Yes I changed batteries(twice) no light or functions.Using my harmony remote for now but miss the familiarty of the origional.Any ideas,people? I'll check ebay,but don't like to deal there.

Checked the DVR switch and 50-51 IR signal prior to posting last time. There is no red light when I hit the power button, so its electrical. Tried new batteries again from same pack of coppertops. same result.Ebay has one new one at $47 and another used at $60 something. Other than this glitch-up and running since figuring out the the update install....9 weeks and counting.:eek:

JoeKustra

02-03-10, 03:30 PM

Checked the DVR switch and 50-51 IR signal prior to posting last time. There is no red light when I hit the power button, so its electrical. Tried new batteries again from same pack of coppertops. same result.Ebay has one new one at $47 and another used at $60 something. Other than this glitch-up and running since figuring out the the update install....9 weeks and counting.:eek:

Go for the new one. With all the work this remote has to do, I bought a spare two years ago. They were $39 then. No red LED? That's bad.

bardot861

02-03-10, 03:39 PM

HoustonPerson

02-03-10, 04:15 PM

The Rabbit Did It in about 26 hours. HostChannel set and a Digital Grid replaced Artec Analogue Grid.

During the last three months or so, I have had about 3 emails from Rovi. Takes them about one month to respond to an email.

Anyway, their short answer was: My Antenna system is not up to par for the unsupported Sony upgrade, etc. So I began a series of tests. The pictures below tell the story.

Rabbit in upstairs window, with 100’ of Quad RG6 to downstairs Sony Box, 36 miles from KHOU - CBS.

So at this point I will assume there is something not up to par with the house antenna system.

House Antenna: Strength stays at 94% at all times, Quality varies from Good and periodically dips to Normal. Multi-Path Issue? Line-Taps? Amps? Old Time Antenna electrics? Poor cable runs? Damaged antenna? Maybe in another life time I will tackle that one?

Rabbit Antenna: Strength varies ferom 74% to 88%, but Quality always stays on Good – it never changes, I have watched it for an HOUR!

Apparently, signal strength at or above 74% is fine; but the “quality” must always stay at or above “Good”. If “quality” ever changes or “dips” below “Good” then there may not be enough in the signal “data wise” to Build-A-Grid. One of Rovi’s quotes: “You are likely not getting a strong enough signal or enough data for the Guide to setup with the unsupported Sony upgrade. You may want to try a larger antenna and/or if the antenna signal is being split, you may want to eliminate any splitters as they will downgrade the signal.”

WS65711

02-03-10, 04:50 PM

The Rabbit Did It in about 26 hours....

So you mean all those times when you "kicked the Sony in the pants" you should have been kicking your antenna instead? :D:D:D

HoustonPerson

02-03-10, 04:58 PM

yes it appears that is true - even though the unplug/plug was also a kick. Somehow the correct signal is being blocked or interferred with or something. I did try two other antenna experiments over the last several months to no avail..........but in this case it was a "complete replacement with a Rabbit". And it is not a very good Rabbit, it only gets about 50% of the digital stations.

Ops5

02-03-10, 05:53 PM

I just pulled my 250 out of storage after not using it for years. I'm going to use it for my new outdoor theatre setup (gotta love a 25' HDTV picture on the neighbors house!). Anyway, it seems to be working fine except for the clock & guide info. Let me apologize up front - and I am prepared to get ripped for this. I simply don't have time to read 670 pages of this thread, & some (admittedly quick) searching hasn't helped. Could someone fill me in or point me to a post or other location where I can get more info on necessary updates, etc required to use this device after the OTA "Digital Conversion"?

Thank you in advance.

~Josh

JoeKustra

02-03-10, 06:56 PM

Hello All:
Using original fw in Boston/Rhode Island area. Downloaded the update to a flash drive months ago - but following posts from M. Bhuttra and Possum Girl - ran G Test after going to 4.1 (CBS) and have been able to fully populate w no issues. However, just yesterday experienced lock-up and did a hot re-start. Unit (500) went through the Welcome and the count 1 thru 6 but clock was flashing - empty. G Test reveals vbi packets being received and first three headings show 'pass' . Which of the last two listings in the g test screen is for the time packets? Previously - running sucessfuly G always resulted in clock correcting (right away). The first of the last two shows recpt of packet - but the last stays at zero - until run a few more times and then both show rcpt of 1 packet each at same time. Yet - clock remains way off - with the grid geared to the incorrect time showing on face of machine - but fully populated. Could time packet be screwed up? Starting to become concerned regarding hot restarts to solve lock up of unit as well as remote. Little flash at receptacle, etc. Thoughts?
Thanks to you all.
Barry

Just one. Perhaps the update to .21 didn't work since VBI packets don't move after the update. That's what I have seen posted here. Guess you will have to be more exact on what a "hot restart" means. If you mean that you restored to factory defaults, you lose the .21 update which is needed for a digital OTA rebuild. When going into the G* VBI test, your version should be displayed as 0.0.0 also, indicating the .21 update has worked. I find that a front panel reset should be tried before more drastic measures. It saves the grid & .21 firmware. Best of luck and don't use the front panel clock as a test for a clock. Go to the TV Guide and check its clock.

bretski

02-03-10, 07:54 PM

....Up to a year or so ago maybe, but afterwards it;s been plug and pray. :(

Anyone ever had full listings with no ads??

Full listings? Don't know, because I don't normally look that far out. :) I have 7 days + 10 hours as a couple of minutes ago.

As far as ads go, when have we not had them in the guide? Several years, at least. I hadn't even noticed them in quite some time, until they recently started promoting TV shows, instead of Bose crap...

JoeKustra

02-03-10, 10:53 PM

Full listings? Don't know, because I don't normally look that far out. :) I have 7 days + 10 hours as a couple of minutes ago.

As far as ads go, when have we not had them in the guide? Several years, at least. I hadn't even noticed them in quite some time, until they recently started promoting TV shows, instead of Bose crap...

Strange, but recently I have brought up the guide and seen the 'default' TV Guide ad. Scared, I went to day 8 and it was there and so was a new ad. Usually like you said - promo for a show. Things change.

HoustonPerson

02-04-10, 07:43 AM

....
Anyone ever had full listings with no ads??

During the last 2 months or so, we would have 8 day listings with no ads (about 4-5 different times and lasted 2-3 days). That was with an analogue built grid (via Artec), but with regular digital downloads (after the Artec was removed).

Generally, when running analogue grid with digital downloads (grid mis match), the 8th day listings would often have several "no listings" in the grid cells. Now with a digital grid and listings 8th day is 100% complete again, at least for the first day. Today is the second day so will see how that goes LOL

jtbell

02-04-10, 08:19 AM

necessary updates, etc required to use this device after the OTA "Digital Conversion"?

You should upgrade the system software to the latest version (1.2.21). You can find the download and instructions here:

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-download.pl?mdl=DHGHDD250&upd_id=4542&os_id=25

HoustonPerson

02-04-10, 08:39 AM

Day 2 for Rabbit has begun:

No Ads and Zero Listings for Day 8?

HostChannel is still set.

Did a PBS 8-1 recording at 1AM-2AM last night – but that should not affect it? Once I tuned back to CBS this morning 11-1, the current channel and host channel began reporting data coming in again.

So I do not know if the heavy rain last night interfered with the Rabbit, or the 1AM recording? or an Rovi adjustment? Or not being tuned to CBS?

The last two days of recordings are fine, other than a NBC recording where the antenna signal is too weak.

videobruce

02-04-10, 09:11 AM

So you mean all those times when you "kicked the Sony in the pants" you should have been kicking your antenna instead? :D:D:DOuch. :eek:Multi-Path Issue? Line-Taps? Amps? Old Time Antenna electrics? Poor cable runs? Damaged antenna? Maybe in another life time I will tackle that one?I would of tackled that first, months ago! The time you wasted, you could of rebuilt your distribution system. Sheesh!House Antenna: Strength stays at 94% at all times, Quality varies from Good and periodically dips to Normal.I wish you guys would stop paying attention to those mostly useless, inconsistent, inaccurate readings that those built in 'things' (for lack of a better term) show. That's why I invested in a decent (but not expensive) Digital capable SLM (Signal Level Meter) in spite of what some other members thought it is/was a waste of money and time!

HoustonPerson; you have a PM. :)

videobruce

02-04-10, 09:36 AM

As far as ads go, when have we not had them in the guide? Several years, at least. I hadn't even noticed them in quite some time, until they recently started promoting TV shows, instead of Bose crap...The "Bose crap" are ads also. If it is something other than "TV Guide" twice, you are looking at ads. ;)

Regarding the loss of ads on the one deck. Just after I posted that, the ads returned. :rolleyes:

Ops5

02-04-10, 10:43 AM

cheneyp

02-04-10, 11:20 AM

That's why I invested in a decent (but not expensive) Digital capable SLM (Signal Level Meter) in spite of what some other members thought it is/was a waste of money and time!

I've been thinking about getting one of these. Might I ask which one you have?

videobruce

02-04-10, 11:32 AM

Tektronix/Tempo RFM-151. It's a older model developed in the late 90's, but it is Tek, US made and built extremely well. It originally sold for $2k-$2.5k but can be had for under $400 if you time it right. I have seen them go for around $250. I got it thru eBay. It also (among other things) includes a Spectrum Analyzer. Though it's not as good as a dedicated bench type SA, it surely tells you more than just a signal level reading. It doesn't just cover TV allocations. It will read up to 1 GHz.

You do need the software (which I have), a serial port and you have to program a channel table for your digital channels. though I could send you a file(s) to for the 151.

Most SLMs' are CATV only, namely Trilithic. I looked at Sencore and Sadelco (both US made), but ruled them out for one reason or another..

HoustonPerson

02-04-10, 11:48 AM

Rabbit Update

In the last couple of hours Day 8 is now complete, from being 100% no listings this morning. Still No Ads LOL. There are several storms in the area over the last 24 hours, and perhaps more to come. Or perhaps Rovi just turned it all off last night?

videobruce

02-04-10, 11:56 AM

Ops5; Just so you know, it isn't as easy as just that. Sony claims it works (if you wait long enough and are lucky), but the proven way is to use a Artec (or DTV Pal) CECB as a "jump start" to get the grid.

WaltA

02-04-10, 02:52 PM

Walt,

I gotta ask... why are you bothering to read/post in this forum?

I guess because, unlike you, I actually own a DHG-HDD500. :rolleyes:

I also have an XBR with TVGOS and a couple of Toshibas with TVGOS. So, I have many years of experience with TVGOS.

WaltA

02-04-10, 02:57 PM

Anyone ever had full listings with no ads??

I have noticed that for the past couple of weeks, both on my Sonys and on my Toshibas, there have been no ads (just the basic pair of "Welcome to TVGOS" pics)about 50% of the time. I have, however, had full listings.

Just being a bit paranoid, I was worried that no ads might mean that TVGOS is unable to secure sponsors, and if they can't get sponsors the service itself might be in jeopardy.

bardot861

02-04-10, 02:58 PM

Thnx for the response, Joe. I could have been a bit more clear. By hot start - meant after a lockup - no response either thru remote/ or unit itself, found I could restore by simply pulling the plug - saying a few prayers and plugging back in. Unit would re-boot - I would again run the G - and all would be well. This last time - resulted in clock face / in exact concert with TV Guide/Grid was off by like 6 hrs. All the listings were still in the grid - but in completely wrong time slots. Even the slots in the grid had screwball times indicated: Programs showing as starting at 6:09 pm for example. Anyway - after two days of G tests / and nocturnal visits to diagnostic screens (be right there, honey - doing my G Test). The correct time jumped up - and the grid corrected itself as well.
This machine has all the ingredients to qualify as a hobby. / or a mania.
See you all at next crisis.
Barry

WS65711

02-04-10, 04:08 PM

I guess because, unlike you, I actually own a DHG-HDD500. :rolleyes:

I also have an XBR with TVGOS and a couple of Toshibas with TVGOS. So, I have many years of experience with TVGOS.

Unlike who??? I own no less than THREE DHG-HDD500's. And a Mits TV with V-9 TVGOS. So there! Take THAT !!! ;)

Ops5

02-04-10, 05:00 PM

You should upgrade the system software to the latest version (1.2.21). You can find the download and instructions here:

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-download.pl?mdl=DHGHDD250&upd_id=4542&os_id=25

Ops5; Just so you know, it isn't as easy as just that. Sony claims it works (if you wait long enough and are lucky), but the proven way is to use a Artec (or DTV Pal) CECB as a "jump start" to get the grid.

Ok thanks. So...I've downloaded the update & was going to apply it tonight. Do I risk "bricking" it in doing the update, or do the listings just not show up...what is the problem? Is there any benefit in doing the update even if the grid doesn't populate? I guess I'm just wondering if it's worth the risk in trying it for the limited use situation I'm going to have.

Possumgirl

02-04-10, 05:16 PM

Ok thanks. So...I've downloaded the update & was going to apply it tonight. Do I risk "bricking" it in doing the update, or do the listings just not show up...what is the problem? Is there any benefit in doing the update even if the grid doesn't populate? I guess I'm just wondering if it's worth the risk in trying it for the limited use situation I'm going to have.

Installing the update should not cause any problem at all. What isn't guaranteed is that your unit will build a grid from a digital host; hence the suggestion of getting an Artec or DTVPal. Be all means, do the update and see what happens before going the CECB route.

Ops5

02-04-10, 05:33 PM

Installing the update should not cause any problem at all. What isn't guaranteed is that your unit will build a grid from a digital host; hence the suggestion of getting an Artec or DTVPal. Be all means, do the update and see what happens before going the CECB route.

Got it - thank you!

jtbell

02-04-10, 06:26 PM

Ops5

02-04-10, 10:02 PM

Ops5: according to rabbitears.info (http://www.rabbitears.info/), WCCO 4.1 (CBS) carries TVGOS data for the Twin Cities area. Aim your antenna to optimize reception of that station, if you can. (I'm assuming you're using OTA signals because you mentioned OTA in a previous post)

I think I've seen someone from your area post in this thread, but I don't remember what he had to say about his experiences with TVGOS.

Also note that the Sony upgrade does not contain the latest version of the TVGOS software, which you need before you can see a channel lineup. If you can get a TVGOS data stream, it will update the TVGOS software automatically, but it happens in two stages, so it might take a couple of days. I've had the first stage take place overnight and the second stage take place during the following day, but "your mileage may vary." I'd say give it three or four days altogether before you start looking for other problems.

Great - thank you very much! I am using an OTA antenna, and channel 4.1 is usually my strongest signal. I just finished the upgrade, which seemed to go without a problem. I'll see what happens with the TVGOS over the next few days.

Looking forward to a unique Super Bowl party at my place - outdoor firepit viewing the game in MN in Feb! Would have been a little better had my Vikes not imploded, again...:(

jtbell

02-04-10, 11:28 PM

For what it's worth, this post decribes the sequence of events when I reset one of my Sonys to its initial factory state a couple of months ago and re-installed 1.2.21. During that 48-hour period I left the unit off except to check its status briefly, twice a day.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17734644#post17734644

ttlvdo

02-05-10, 08:29 AM

Does anyone have a copy of the .13 firmware they can make available to me? I seem to have misplaced mine and I'm trying to restore my 500 to it's former glory. Thanks!

WS65711

02-05-10, 09:09 AM

V-1.02.13 Firmware: http://www.spiffspace.com/sony_dhg_fw_1.02.13.zip

reshumate

02-05-10, 09:26 AM

bretski

02-05-10, 09:31 AM

The "Bose crap" are ads also. If it is something other than "TV Guide" twice, you are looking at ads. ;)

I have to laugh about this...last night, I was setting a manual recording, and there was a Bose ad on the screen. Shouldda kept my pie-hole shut... :D

Regarding the loss of ads on the one deck. Just after I posted that, the ads returned. :rolleyes:

Please see my "pie-hole" comment above... ;)

WS65711

02-05-10, 09:35 AM

When you go to the Guide screen you see rows of channel names and columns of half-hour time increments? If so, then you do have a Grid and all you need are the program Listings. Tune to your digital TVGOS channel and leave the DVR turned on. You should get listings withing a couple of hours if you have the latest firmware (V-1.02.21).

bretski

02-05-10, 09:37 AM

When I read "getting the grid" in this forum, what is that referring to? I have had no listings for some time, but have a grid.

I installed the latest firmware last night, and the clock corrected overnight, but no listings. Will wait a few days with my fingers crossed. Any need to rescan channels or anything? I confirmed that I have a local digital TVGOS station.

"Getting the grid" refers to your local channel lineup being displayed in the guide. If you got the correct time last night, just continue to sit tight. Feel free to uncross your fingers occasionally.

videobruce

02-05-10, 11:51 AM

Unlike who??? I own no less than THREE DHG-HDD500's. And a Mits TV with V-9 TVGOS. So there! Take THAT !!! ;)Yea? I own two 500s' and one 250, a Mtits w/ V8 and a Artec CECB......So there.
I had to give up my regular job just to keep all of this running. :p

videobruce

02-05-10, 11:54 AM

Do I risk "bricking" it in doing the updateAny time you 'flash' the firmware of a device (or the Bios of a MB), you run the risk of corrupting things. Knock on wood that hasn't happened to me. AFAIK, it hasn't happened to anyone here so far or, if it has, I didn't see a post on that."Getting the grid" refers to your local channel lineup being displayed in the guide.But, it doesn't mean having any listings, just the 30 minute time blocks. At least you can do manual recording in this state, even if the actual 'listings' didn't return.

HoustonPerson

02-05-10, 12:15 PM

Ok, last night after watching regular TV, we want to watch a recorded NCIS, so turned the Sony Box on just before 8PM. It was “red” already recording a 7PM and set up to record a 8PM and 9PM show – no biggie.

Well we were into the recorded NCIS about 2 minutes, and the screen went black, remote died, and front panel died. Horse Feathers. Well in about 5 minutes the answer became obvious, a Rovi reset “800A”. Picture 8080 is from this morning. Within another 5 minutes it was recording again for both the 8PM and 9PM shows and we resumed watching the NCIS.

Last night basically all of the info screens had cleared themselves; so these pictures are from this morning.

Pic 8077: HostChannel is still set, because it is left over from NumSearch “1”

Pic 8078: All dates had cleared last night but two filled in this morning. It went to 0xa48 last night and has not moved, no DPP’s yet and other required data has not come in yet, but VBIState is 0x08, so I expect HostSUFlag to be complete by midnight today. NumSearch “0” Rovi Killed The Rabbit, it was already over 2 days into NumSearch “1”.

Pic 8079: Stats Page

Pic 8081: Very minor memory imbalance should have no effect, so far.

WS65711

02-05-10, 12:44 PM

Yea? I own two . . . . . Mtits w/ V8 .....So there.
I had to give up my regular job just to keep all of this running. :p

Hmmm... I gotta get me some of those V8 Mtits :eek::eek:;):D:D

wasabiboys

02-06-10, 12:25 AM

TVGOS killed my Voom receiver in Boston if its any after thought.

Rammitinski

02-06-10, 04:36 AM

How's that?

HoustonPerson

02-06-10, 09:31 AM

mabuttra

02-06-10, 05:52 PM

Pic 8083 and 8086: Rovi reset 800A on 2/5/10 2:09 – NumSearch back to “0” ? – DLTimer advances every 6 hours – HostSUFlags has not moved from 0xa48

Pic 8084: HostChannel still set and data coming into box (but no ads and no listings). HostChannel has been set for 3 days +, even after the 800A?

Pic 8088: Still no DPP’s

Pic 8089: Day 8 is now “No Listings”

It is still on the Rabbit – strength for CBS stays between 77% to 88% - Quality is on “Good” and does not change – maybe the station reduces power at night? Or Rovi has been doing night time adjustments again?

Since it is on NumSearch “0” – will it go to “1” on its own in the 4.5 days? Does it know to do that without the dates in the fields?

Eventually, I will have to “unplug/plug” in order to put back on the House Antenna (that would force to NumSearch “1”)– in the mean time, I have added terminators to all un-used ports and reduced the amp power to the minimum. All in an attempt to reduce interference, bad qualities, and multipath – none of which is visible on the TV’s.

Leave it Be to Day 5? OR Put it back on house antenna?

Are you leaving the DVR on 24/7? the reason I ask is that your Since Cold column normally is much greater than your CurChan column, because CurChan only increments when you turn on the DVR. Since both have the same counts either you are leaving the DVR on, or it is not getting data when it is turned off.

Your host channel should blank in less than 2 days, which will cause NumSearch 1. In an ideal world you would never see NumSearch 1, since your host channel would never blank, but we all know that won't happen. NumSearches don't mean the DVR is operating normally. It means the DVR has lost its host channel, and it is trying to get it again.

I really think that what happened with the rabbit was a complete fluke. There is just no way that you could have been getting 8 days of listings all of this time, but your signal is too weak to get a grid. I think, ROVI was just grasping at straws, and trying to get you off the phone when they fed you that line. Granted you did get a grid with the rabbit, so you have now got a digital grid twice since the transition. Once with your regular antenna setup, and once with the rabbit.

Mark

HoustonPerson

02-06-10, 06:42 PM

Are you leaving the DVR on 24/7? the reason I ask is that your Since Cold column normally is much greater than your CurChan column, because CurChan only increments when you turn on the DVR. Since both have the same counts either you are leaving the DVR on, or it is not getting data when it is turned off.

Your host channel should blank in less than 2 days, which will cause NumSearch 1. In an ideal world you would never see NumSearch 1, since your host channel would never blank, but we all know that won't happen. NumSearches don't mean the DVR is operating normally. It means the DVR has lost its host channel, and it is trying to get it again.

I really think that what happened with the rabbit was a complete fluke. There is just no way that you could have been getting 8 days of listings all of this time, but your signal is too weak to get a grid. I think, ROVI was just grasping at straws, and trying to get you off the phone when they fed you that line. Granted you did get a grid with the rabbit, so you have now got a digital grid twice since the transition. Once with your regular antenna setup, and once with the rabbit.

Mark

Thanks Mark for the reply

The DVR is “off” about 85% percent of the time, mostly only used during primetime these last few days. Another funny thing I noticed about the 3 columns – Both “Since Cold” and “Current Channel” would update while tuned to 11-2 (and the clock changed itself to 11-2, but the failing remained 11-1). When tuned to 11-1 all 3 columns would update at the same time. I do believe that it not getting data when it is turned off – and has been that way since the 800A hit it (I think)? It did get all its data for the first two days on the rabbit.

HostChannel is still set to 11-1 – regardless of which station it is on, been that way for about 4 days now

Yes I also think Rabbit has been sort of a fluke too. However, I also think my antenna system is not up to par………..possibly way overloaded (too much amp) and perhaps other problems too – I am still working on that. The old antenna system was set up (attic) about 25 years ago in the analogue days and tuned for that – which meant the gain on the amp was about 80%..........I have now turned it back to 0% and lost only 1 DTV stations (two TV hooks up); but all the majors and 11-1 still show 98-100%. I have not yet hooked that back up to the Sony; it’s still on the Rabbit.

I am beginning to think the 800A made it “mad”. I will leave it on the rabbit overnight. Assuming it is still not filling in the 8th day, and still no ads since the 800A; I will unplug/plug forcing the 7000 reset, and reconnect the slightly re-turned house antenna system in the morning.

HoustonPerson

02-06-10, 07:24 PM

HoustonPerson

02-06-10, 07:28 PM

Mark

Putting together the last two post. I think it was not getting data when "off" because of the odd 800A (perhaps too many remote commands until I realized it was re-booting itself?) OR the 800A was just plain ole mean! In the morning I will know more (or less LOL)

mabuttra

02-06-10, 07:42 PM

Update to previous post

Just checked the box.

Now to NumSeach "1" on its own

HostChannel has been cleared and HostSUFlags is back at the ground level........looks like this started within the last hour

Still no DPP's

Day 8 Saturday and Day 9 Sunday are 100% No Listings (except of course the traditional 4AM cuttoff on Saturday)

It appears Ads might just beginnin to come into the box, but have not showed up on the screen.

The box will be "off" until the morning; however there are two 1 hour PBS recordings to occur at midnight and 1AM.

It is still on the rabbit so will wait until I move it back to the house antenna.

When you mentioned that it had been 4 days since your host channel set, I knew it wouldn't be long until it blanked. I said it would be less than 2 days, but I had been looking at the date on the post 800A reset pictures instead of the first pictures that you posted after you got the grid.

The best way to find out if it is getting data when it is off, is to turn it on, and change the channel to another station. Then go into the ATSC slicer screen, and note what one of the Since Cold numbers is. Then turn it off for the night. Then in the morning, turn it on, and go back to the ATSC Slicer screen, and see if the number has changed. (Changing the channel to another station will prevent the counts from updating when you have it on, so you'll know that any new counts that you see happened when it was off.

Mark

AustinLarry

02-07-10, 02:11 AM

I have the same problem with my Sony in Austin. The time is off a couple of minutes on some days, but then corrects itself. BUT, on Sundays it usually continues to have the incorrect time. About every other Sunday I do a G* test and everything is fine. The clock gets the correct time in less than five minutes.

OTA
Sony DHG-HDD250
Wow, thanks! I wouldn't have believed in a million years that a G* test would pick up a new time setting, foolishly thinking that if new time settings were streaming my way, the Sony would have already picked one up!

But your advice was right on the money. I noticed that the time was off earlier today (Saturday, actually), and staying that way. So I tried the G*, and it cleaned it right up.

BTW, I love your ID. Blue Bell is the absolute best ice cream.

HoustonPerson

02-07-10, 10:28 AM

No real additional progress overnight on Rabbit, No Host Channel Set, No Listings (last two days), No Ads.

So did “unplug/plug” and back to House Antenna.

In 25 minutes correct time is back on front panel. Turned it “on” – it played about 2 minutes and did another 800A? Why? So now it has a 7000 and 800A reset a just a few short minutes apart.

On the ATSC slicer page there is no data coming in the “Current Channel” column?

It does still have the digital build grid, about 5 days of program listings, about 10 recorded programs and 3 programs scheduled to record Monday night.

It will be off all day, maybe one or two spot checks?

What is 800A reset? Has Rovi turned Houston off?

TheRatPatrol

02-07-10, 11:32 AM

HoustonPerson

02-07-10, 12:45 PM

I can't believe you're still having so many problems. Even with the Artec? Is it your local host channel that having the issues?

I probably should have prefaced my most recent postings – trying to get a digital grid without the Artec or the use of any other source.

In the mean time, by referring to older pictures (prior to Artec), about August 09 and September 09, I would often get 800A resets attempting to get digital grid (not a traditional analogue grid).

As you can tell from picture 7762 there were several 800A’s during that time frame (digital grid attempts), and not a single 800A since that time, until I got the digital grid (no Artec), a few days ago and ran perfect for 2 days until another 800A hit. (That long sentence may not make sense since I ran the last 7 months into “one” sentence.)

So my guess is: 800A reset may be normal on a digital grid build, either instantly or within a few days. The next question would be how long does it take to recover after a 800A reset?

If I can get ads and listings back with the current digital grid, all will be ok. And maybe someday HostChannel might set again?

I do not know if others get a 800A reset sometime after a digital grid is made?

And "yes" the local station could be wacko for the last couple of days?

Possumgirl

02-07-10, 01:54 PM

So my guess is: 800A reset may be normal on a digital grid build, either instantly or within a few days. The next question would be how long does it take to recover after a 800A reset?

The 800A code occurs when there has been a spontaneous reboot. Each of my two units have done it both before and since (several months after) the digital transition. Technically, I still have analog-built grids since neither unit has lost the grid in a long time (knock on wood :p). Just like a power off reset (code 7000), there's no "recovery" per se. It only wipes out packet counts and search-related info. Or at least, that has been my experience.

richholt

02-08-10, 01:25 AM

HoustonPerson

02-08-10, 07:00 AM

The 800A code occurs when there has been a spontaneous reboot. Each of my two units have done it both before and since (several months after) the digital transition. Technically, I still have analog-built grids since neither unit has lost the grid in a long time (knock on wood :p). Just like a power off reset (code 7000), there's no "recovery" per se. It only wipes out packet counts and search-related info. Or at least, that has been my experience.

Thanks Possumgirl,

I still have digital grid, both after 7000 and the 800A that follows from a few minutes to a couple of days after the 7000. But with the 7000 I still get ads and listings, when the 800A hits I no longer get ads and listings? Maybe today will be different,

JoeKustra

02-08-10, 08:38 AM

It seems SDV is being rolled out by several cable companies. According to the Comcast San Francisco Forum SDV is planned for the Bay Area. Tuning adapters are available for Tivo DVR's with CableCards in other areas where SDV has been implemented. I guess that even though the Sony DHG-HDD250/500 survived the digital switchover they are destined to become "bricks" anyway.

Interesting. My cable company sent me a letter. It said that in 6 weeks they will be doing a realignment of the SD & HD channels to make them easier to remember. I'm thinking, easier for WHO? This way my local NBC will be 4 and HD NBC will be 504. That's a big help for someone I guess.

Last spring they also said that we are going to all digital and sent me a DTA. RF only - real quality. It has been almost a year and I still get 70 analog channels duplicated with 70 SD channels and duplicated with 6 HD channels and the DTA is still in its box. But...

I've read that even after starting SDV the more popular channels will not be included since why switch something that is always there? Makes sense. They might switch INSP, QVC, Hallmark or other not-top-ten stations. Or so I've heard. I might be wrong.

If my three Sonys can last a few more years the ROI will be more than enough. Think positive: maybe the FCC will get involved and it will be years before SDV is adapted.

reshumate

02-08-10, 11:50 AM

Anyone know a way to get listings for stations not listed OTA? My market has two stations (one is WB) that do not show up on the grid, yet are well within range. I can add them to my grid, but they do not have the correct call letters or anything.

I'm thinking this issue is related to TVGOS.

WS65711

02-08-10, 12:00 PM

reshumate -

Are you OTA only? If you're in a suburban area, you might try to use a zipcade that's in the metro area that's nearest you, where the stations are actually located.

videobruce

02-09-10, 01:47 PM

In case anyones interested my "Just what's inside" thread on this deck is here;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1225369

cwallace56

02-09-10, 08:45 PM

I'm north bay comcast, with both cable and OTA. For the past couple of weeks, usually on the weekend, My guide gets goofy....channels turned off, or even populated only with a few channels...which appear to be the few channels I may have watched in the past week or so.

Thought I was finally off this forum for good...but I guess if you own a
sony DHG, then you're going to be a lifer!

Anyone else getting hammered with this. I'm almost ready to send this in for repairs and have them go through it. Maybe my hardware is glithcy...but I really don't think so. I may go completely OTA, and I bet it would settle down. Comcast Sucks,,,,,Duh!

Cw

HoustonPerson

02-10-10, 10:28 AM

AustinLarry

02-10-10, 11:14 AM

I've been essentially grid/listings trouble free in Austin, so I don't monitor these things. I took a look just now, and have 8 day listings, blank host channel, and vbistate 5.

HoustonPerson

02-10-10, 04:37 PM

I've been essentially grid/listings trouble free in Austin, so I don't monitor these things. I took a look just now, and have 8 day listings, blank host channel, and vbistate 5.

Thanks AustinLarry, pretty much how it is here too. Let me know if you get HostChannel set and at which VBIState. Thanks

Possumgirl

02-10-10, 06:32 PM

Where does your VBIState normally stay? 0x05, 0x06, 0x07, or 0x08?

I don't pay attention to VBIState since I've no idea what the various values mean (if anything). After reading your post this morning though, I took a look. My 250 had been waiting for the host to set and it had still been blank when I'd done my usual morning check earlier. The host had set one minute before I looked at the screen. :) The VBIState was x06 although I don't know what it was previously. Just now I took another look and it has changed to x08.

My 500 is also waiting for host to set and is on its 2nd search this go-round. The VBIState changed from x04 to x05 as I was looking at the screen.

Frankly, as long as I get 8 days of listings and the grid stays put, I don't much care what value is there. :D

HoustonPerson

02-10-10, 07:11 PM

Thanks, Possumgirl. That should imply you HostChannel set when VBIState gets above 0x05.

mabuttra

02-10-10, 07:30 PM

Mabuttra, JTBell, Spiff, Frank, Videobruce, Possumgirl, and others that want to chime in.

What is your normal VBIState? This really applies to Digital OTA peeps only – that is: No analogue source for the Grid (no Artec, DTVPal, Cable, etc.).

My observation has been: If VBIState only reaches 0x05 there will be no HostChannel set. If it goes above 0x05 then HostChannel can set. In a correctly functioning OTA "Digital" Sony Box if 0x08 is its normal resting position (better than 80% of the time), then a "digital" Grid is the norm. VBIState can start over 2 or 3 times within a NumSearch, but should reach 0x08 within 48 hours.

Are most of the above statements true?

Where does your VBIState normally stay? 0x05, 0x06, 0x07, or 0x08?

Have you ever seen a digital grid built with a VBIState of just 0x05?

Thanks

Here is what I have observed: If my host channel is blank the VBIState is always less than 0x06. If my host channel is set the VBIState is always greater than 0x05.

To put it another way: I have never seen the VBIState greater than 0x05 when my host channel is blank, and I have never seen it less than 0x06 when my host channel is set.

I believe the VBIState goes above 0x05 at the moment the host channel sets, and the VBIState falls below 0x06 at the moment the host channel blanks. So I have seen no correlation to having a VBIState of 0x05, and not getting the host channel to set. Mine has been in that state dozens of times, and the host channel has set.

Mark

jtbell

02-11-10, 12:11 AM

Here are two VBIState data points from my two Sonys:

As some here may recall, after getting a channel grid the last time around on both units, I set their ZIP codes to an out-of-state one so they would clear their Host Chan fields and enter an endless search for a new host channel. I did this because whenever Host Chan does get set, I stop getting new program listings until Host Chan clears again, with the cycle repeating about three days on and three days off.

The only problem with this is that it prevents me from getting an updated channel lineup, or finding out whether there is a new one. Therefore, last Saturday evening I reset TVGOS from the 9012 menu, on one of my units. For some reason, I didn't get a channel grid until sometime today. The Host Chan field has set, and VBIState is 0x07. (No listings yet, but maybe they'll be there in the morning.)

I'm going to leave the ZIP code set to my own on this unit for a while, to see if I still have the problem I described above with updates stopping and restarting in sync with getting and losing the Host Chan field.

The other unit is still going along as before, in "perpetual host-channel search mode" with daily program listing updates. Its VBIState is 0x03.

I don't think my new channel lineup has any new channels (at least not in my immediate area), which disappointed me because one station has added RTV as a subchannel and I'd like to have program listings for it without having to go to the Web. However, my ABC stations have now restored the logo at the beginning of their lines on this unit. The other unit has their callsigns instead, the result of the apparent system-wide "ABC logo disappearance" of a few months ago.

AustinLarry

02-11-10, 02:26 AM

Just checked again, and the vbi state is 7, and a host channel is now set. I'm OTA only, with only one possible host channel, so I don't know why the Sony would be changing state, but it doesn't seem to affect its normal operation.

HoustonPerson

02-11-10, 10:15 AM

Thanks again all, Possumgirl, Mabuttra, Jtbell, AustinLary. I believe we are all saying “exactly” the same thing.

I think I am getting very close to figuring this contraption out.

For those of us not consistently going above a VBIState of 0x05, the elusive HostChannel set and the corresponding ability to build a grid from scratch (no analogue source), will never happen.

I am almost convinced but still not quite able to prove it, that this is a signal issue problem. One thing is certain at this point, with the tinkering I have been doing with the antenna system, I can effect and somewhat control what “data” the SonyBox is receiving.

For example at one extreme I could get from a unplug/plug state full replacement digital grid, hostchannel set, VBIState 0x08, HostSUFlag 0xff8 in less than 27 hours on the Rabbit ears. But in the immediate following days I could not even get stations due to weather changes and being 37 miles out. Also, using several different antenna hook ups (adjustments); would either block the DPPs for weeks (I can see those), or allowed me to receive 2 or 3 per day. Also, I have been able to fine tune things to get the HousSUFlag up to 0xf78 within 24 hours fairly regular, but of course with a VBIState of 0x05, the HostChannel will not set, nor would the HostSUFlag hit 0xff8.

Both the original construction and major remolding down through the years makes antenna work on this house close to impossible (lots of time, work, and $$$). Additionally, we still do not know if we are moving are not. Thus I am restricted to limited things I can do, in regard to finding the problem. If we do end up staying here then I would begin the process of replacing just about everything antenna wise, just because I would not want to “de-construct” the house again.

From a testing and identification of the problem, unfortunately runs a 2 to 5 day cycle. So what should take 1 minute for testing is actually waiting (at times) up to 5 days to see if the Sony Box responds to the most recent antenna feed adjustment.

From a signal issue standpoint, these areas come to mind and nothing is ruled out.

1. Signal quality is just as important as signal strength.
2. For the “tuned” RF channel for TVGOS, strength may be “high” (i.e. 94%) – but quality may be fluctuating (good, normal, below normal). Several reasons for this, too many to list here; multipath, interference, other RF issues.
3. Attenuation, blocking, or restriction of the signal within that specific RF in some way.
4. Floating or RF shifting (we are only talking about 1 or 2 data bits being “out of wack”).
5. Feed back (bounce back/reflections) within the RG59 from other devices on the system. We once had a Samsung LCD downstairs that when turned “on” made the old analogue sets upstairs loose there picture and turn snowy. Three other Samsungs did not do that! Just that “one” 32” model, early 2008. In other words “isolation” issues relating to a “digital world”.
6. Virtually all the antenna equipment is suspect.

Which came first the Chicken or the Egg? I think we all agree there are “both” Chickens and Eggs? And many of us agree it is not important or relevant; but with that said, I think this is the order of things based on what I have seen here, regarding building a “digital grid” without an analogue source.

1. VBIState must reach 0x06 or above in order for Grid Building to begin. Most of us have seen the grid built with 0x06, 0x07, and 0x08.
2. HostChannel is set
3. Grid is built
4. HostSUFlag reaches its final resting place of 0xff8

The following pictures seem to reflect that. But I will be the first to point out this was with an Artec built grid and was connected “incorrectly” which produced an “insane” and “incorrect” grid. Pass-through functions of the Artec “will not” work correctly in TVGOS mode. It is true that Artec’s failure to correctly “pass-though” in TVGOS mode may have prevented the HostSUFlag from setting, but it did not prevent HostChannel setting or the initial Grid from building after Reset Factory Defaults. BTW, so as not to be confusing when the Artec is connected correctly to the cable side of the Sony; VBIState, HostChannel set, Grid (most important), and HostSUFlags are 100% correct.

Well it is back to antenna tinkering. Thanks to everyone for replying.

WS65711

02-11-10, 10:39 AM

.......... which produced an “insane” and “incorrect” grid . . .

Do you have any pictures of this "insane and incorrect grid"? I wanna be absolutely sure that mine is OK. I would hate to be awakened in the middle of the night by an axe-wielding TVGOS boogeyman! :D

HoustonPerson

02-11-10, 12:14 PM

Do you have any pictures of this "insane and incorrect grid"? I wanna be absolutely sure that mine is OK. I would hate to be awakened in the middle of the night by an axe-wielding TVGOS boogeyman! :D

I do not have pictures of them all, there are way too many. But here are some do give you an idea.

Trust me it is “not” anything you will wake up to. You would notice right away (or within 24 hours if asleep), after use of the Artec (incorrectly).

Number of grid cells “down” is/was in Houston analogue 517 and digital 518, when a separated feed is used there are about 544 cells “down” listed in the Grid. Once the Artec is removed this drops back to the analogue correct number of 517. There are about 27 bogus (the re-assignments) cells down created, which are eliminated when the Artec is removed; therefore a non-issue.

However, when Artec is combined on the Antenna feed to the Sony, the Artec Channel re-assignments take priority over the correct antenna RF’s and the number of cells is restricted to the 517/518, thus 27 of those are bogus and/or lost temporarily (not real tunable stations). That is one of the reasons why Rovi and Artec recommend the Artec be connected to the cable feed (the Artec is to act as a Cable Box).

Pic 8017: Is after Reset Factory Default with Artec connected incorrectly and the Full tuner scan is just completed. Notice there is only analogue RF 3 via the Artec. Digital Channels 8-1(PBS), 11-1(CBS) and others are missing………keep that in mind.

Pic 8021: First phase of grid building (grid is built), HostSUFlag not yet set.

Pic 8027: Loss of about 26 stations from grid, this should be about 544 in a Artec cable and separate Antenna connection. Because it “is” a combined connection here several stations in the “tuner” are not assigned correctly in the “Grid”.

Pic 8028: “AIR” is the Artec (RF 3) after just after set up. FOX (26-1), CBS (11-1) and others are listed as “on” but they are not in the Sony Tuner (26-1 & 11-1). PBS 8-1 is listed in the Grid as “off” but it is also not in the tuner. Therefore none of those (8-1, 11-1, 26-1, others) are tunable at this point. Many other stations like 2-1 and 13-1 are tuneable. In other cases stations that are listed and “on” will not tune to the correct stations because of “some” of the station number(s) re-assignments. This is explained (partially) in the Artec manual.

Pic 8038: There should be about 52-54 stations listed, only about 35-37 come through on the “pass-through” connection.

Hope that explains “insane” grid.

videobruce

02-11-10, 12:23 PM

FWIW; I never had to include the actual host channel in the channel list in either this DVR or my Mits TV to get or maintain listings.

JoeKustra

02-11-10, 12:27 PM

There is so much activity and interest in this product, and they still sell for hundreds on eBay. So Sony, you're losing money. So Rovi, you're making money on ads from other IPG product lines. You two have nothing to lose by making the source code for the DHG available. No support needed. Us users are obviously capable of supporting it without any corporate help. Help us to stop this continuous guessing what this bit or that bit means. Ok, say you guys aren't listening and/or don't care. Just dump the code on to us and then ignore us. It's ok Sony, you've done all you can for something that you probably wish was never made. And Rovi, you can go onto better things. Maybe I've had too much snow shoveling to be nice, but if this device was a Toyota, you'd be tripping over yourself to keep us happy. Rant over, and no reply is required.

videobruce

02-11-10, 01:08 PM

Ouch.
The CSR from Rovi wouldn't even bother looking at the links I e-mailed him of this forum. Do you think for one minute they would make any of this open source?

HoustonPerson

02-11-10, 01:09 PM

I second the rant, Love It!

JoeKustra

02-11-10, 04:22 PM

Ouch.
The CSR from Rovi wouldn't even bother looking at the links I e-mailed him of this forum. Do you think for one minute they would make any of this open source?

I'm pretty sure that inaction will perpetuate inaction. What do we have to lose? I'd gladly pay for source or even a decent reference manual. Every day I see people making educated guesses, mostly based on observations. That's nice, but not good enough for me. I have more data on my car than my DVR. Something is wrong with that.

mabuttra

02-11-10, 09:23 PM

Thanks again all, Possumgirl, Mabuttra, Jtbell, AustinLary. I believe we are all saying “exactly” the same thing.

Hmmm... do you even read my messages? I don't see how you can conclude that I was saying the exact same thing as you are. I'm saying the opposite, of what you are saying. You say the VBIState goes to > 0x05 before the host channel sets, I'm saying it doesn't go there until after the host channel sets. Actually I believe the host channel state is contained in the VBIState, so 0x06 and greater means the host channel is set, 0x05 and less means the host channel isn't set. That is all. If the VBIState had to get to 0x06 before the host channel sets, then there would be times when you would see the VBIState at > 0x05, and the host channel is still blank. That never happens.

I am almost convinced but still not quite able to prove it, that this is a signal issue problem. One thing is certain at this point, with the tinkering I have been doing with the antenna system, I can effect and somewhat control what “data” the SonyBox is receiving.

Ok, whatever.

For example at one extreme I could get from a unplug/plug state full replacement digital grid, hostchannel set, VBIState 0x08, HostSUFlag 0xff8 in less than 27 hours on the Rabbit ears. But in the immediate following days I could not even get stations due to weather changes and being 37 miles out. Also, using several different antenna hook ups (adjustments); would either block the DPPs for weeks (I can see those), or allowed me to receive 2 or 3 per day.

To suggest that signal strength can cause one piece of data to be lost continually over a period of time, without dramatically affecting the other data, is the equivalent of this (pretty weak ;)) scenario:

You have a pickup truck full of 90 identical basketballs. The only difference between the basketballs is that they are 3 different colors. 30 of them are red, 30 of them are green, and 30 of them are blue. You get in the truck and drive 50 miles, and when you arrive at the destination, all the blue basketballs have blown out of the pickup, and yet you still have all the red and green basketballs. When you suggest that 100% of your DPP packets are being blocked, while 90% of the rest of your data is coming through just fine, you are basically saying that only the blue basketballs are missing, but the red and green ones are still there. There is no physical difference between the data packets that the DVR receives. The reason you didn't get DPP packets for weeks, is because packets weren't being sent for weeks.

Also, I have been able to fine tune things to get the HousSUFlag up to 0xf78 within 24 hours fairly regular, but of course with a VBIState of 0x05, the HostChannel will not set, nor would the HostSUFlag hit 0xff8.

Oh, I see, it is only your tinkering that gets your HostSUFlags to 0xf78. :rolleyes:

Which came first the Chicken or the Egg? I think we all agree there are “both” Chickens and Eggs? And many of us agree it is not important or relevant; but with that said, I think this is the order of things based on what I have seen here, regarding building a “digital grid” without an analogue source.

1. VBIState must reach 0x06 or above in order for Grid Building to begin. Most of us have seen the grid built with 0x06, 0x07, and 0x08.
2. HostChannel is set
3. Grid is built
4. HostSUFlag reaches its final resting place of 0xff8

Number 1 is the last thing that happens not the first thing. The grid is already built by the time the VBIState gets to 0x06.

I would drop number 1, and then sort the others as 2, 4, and 3. In the digital environment all three happen simultaneous, but in the analog environment 2, and 4 happen simultaneously, but 3 can happen hours later.

Mark

mabuttra

02-11-10, 09:34 PM

FWIW; I never had to include the actual host channel in the channel list in either this DVR or my Mits TV to get or maintain listings.

Correct. From what I have seen the TVGOS has it's own "channel scan" that it does to find the TVGOS data. It doesn't rely on the scanned channel list. In fact I once built a grid in the sony without having any scanned channels at all. I did the channel scan without the antenna connected, since there was no way to pass that step in the setup without doing it.

Mark

mabuttra

02-11-10, 09:52 PM

Hope that explains “insane” grid.

Since you are OTA only, connecting to the cable input probably makes more sense. However, your uses of "insane grid" and "Artec connected incorrectly" are dramatically overstated.

What you fail to see, is that there is a perfectly good reason that someone should use the Antenna input, instead of the cable input when connecting the Artec. That is the case where they are cable only. Connecting the Artec to the cable input in this situation would result in the same "insane and incorrect grid" that you proclaim happens on the antenna input. This would actually be much worse since they would have to turn on, and possibly remap hundreds of channels after they get the grid back. Even if they are cable + OTA, they may still want to use the antenna input, since remapping a dozen or so OTA stations, is still much easier than remapping all those cable stations.

Mark

HoustonPerson

02-12-10, 10:01 AM

Hi Mark, well the entertainment value is worth at least a truck load of gold (don’t know about the basketballs).

>>Your comments>>

>>Here is what I have observed: If my host channel is blank the VBIState is always less than 0x06. If my host channel is set the VBIState is always greater than 0x05.

I agree 100%.

>>To put it another way: I have never seen the VBIState greater than 0x05 when my host channel is blank, and I have never seen it less than 0x06 when my host channel is set.

I agree 100%.

>>I believe the VBIState goes above 0x05 at the moment the host channel sets,

I agree 100%

>>and the VBIState falls below 0x06 at the moment the host channel blanks.

I agree 100%

>>So I have seen no correlation to having a VBIState of 0x05, and not getting the host channel to set.

I do understand that I do not understand what you are saying; but hey that’s just me.

>> Mine has been in that state dozens of times, and the host channel has set.

I agree 100%, same here. All the time via analogue and the few rare times (here) digital.

I say the class is half full, you say it is half empty. One will say that is the same the other will say it is not.

-------------------------------

Regarding the HostSUFlag sequence I already said it was my opinion based on what has occurred here and posted the pictures to show it?

------------------------------------

Regarding the hook up of the Artec you said:

>>What you fail to see, is that there is a perfectly good reason that someone should use the Antenna input, instead of the cable input when connecting the Artec. That is the case where they are cable only. Connecting the Artec to the cable input in this situation would result in the same "insane and incorrect grid" that you proclaim happens on the antenna input.

Well that is something I do disagree with. With the dozens of times I have been through this, and for those cable users that I am aware of, the grid has always been correct (according to them) when connecting to Sony Cable input. I do know that in Houston I can select among 4 or 5 cable providers (not using antenna to the Sony at all). And the grid the Artec builds is correct (according to local cable users). I have been told when the correct procedure is followed through – the Artec removed, cable connected, tuner rescanned, “00000” executed; the cable channels are “on”. Another person told me they were not. But since I do not have cable I cannot prove that. Only that the grids are correct. Yes it does make perfect sense to use the combined method (Artec and Antenna) to Sony Antenna Input – but it just does not work correctly IMO.

I can also say directly from personal experience the dozen or so times I have connected the Artec to the Sony Antenna input the Grid has “never” been correct.

As others have said your mileage may vary.

mabuttra

02-12-10, 10:32 PM

Hi Mark, well the entertainment value is worth at least a truck load of gold (don’t know about the basketballs).

I'm glad you got some entertainment out of it. :)

>>So I have seen no correlation to having a VBIState of 0x05, and not getting the host channel to set.

I do understand that I do not understand what you are saying; but hey that’s just me.

Here is the long winded explanation of what I was referring to in the above statement, and also why I thought you were saying something different:

After looking back at your original post, I realize that I may have read more into one of your statements than you were intending, and that I took another one of your statements too literally.

Here are the original statements that I had trouble with:

My observation has been: If VBIState only reaches 0x05 there will be no HostChannel set. If it goes above 0x05 then HostChannel can set.

I mis-interpreted the statement: "...there will be no host channel set" to mean no host channel set ever. I realize now that you were just stating that at 0x05 there has been no host channel set yet.

The statement: "If it goes above 0x05 then HostChannel can set" still reads to me like you are saying that the VBIState must get above 0x05 before the host channel can set. It is the word "can" that makes it read like that to me. I think you probably meant to say that "it has set", or "it is set" instead of "it can set". I'm sure I just took it too literally.

Then you posted this response to Possumgirl about her results:

Thanks, Possumgirl. That should imply you HostChannel set when VBIState gets above 0x05.

This also sounded like you were trying to say that the setting of the host channel is determined by the VBIState.

After reading those two posts, I was prompted to write the first response where I tried to convey that I had never seen any evidence of the VBIState having to get to a certain level before the host channel set, but rather it seems to reflect the state of the host channel in its values (suggesting that the VBIState is determined by the host channel state). So when you responded (not just to me but to everyone who commented), that we were all saying the exact same thing, I responded with my second post, hoping to clarify that I wasn't saying the same thing as you were. In the second response I said this:

So I have seen no correlation to having a VBIState of 0x05, and not getting the host channel to set.

Which was a direct response to your first statement which I now see I probably mis-interpreted.

Mark

TheRatPatrol

02-13-10, 12:27 AM

JoeKustra

02-13-10, 08:29 AM

Wanted to let everyone know that I now have an entry for The Pentagon Channel (http://www.pentagonchannel.mil/). I emailed TVGOS/Rovi about the possibility of getting listings for it, and surprisingly they wrote me back saying that they had added it. I just now found it and turned it on, there are no listings yet. I'll report back if I get listings.

So that's what they have been doing. I notice that there a lot of "no listing" blocks for NBC/U including CNBC that should show Olymic events, but don't.

HoustonPerson

02-13-10, 09:47 AM

videobruce

02-13-10, 11:16 AM

I have more data on my car than my DVR. Something is wrong with that.Hope it's not a Toyota. :D More so called "proprietary" information. :mad:

videobruce

02-13-10, 12:10 PM

Anyone that has unplugged their deck for an extended period of time (say at least a week or two) when they powered it back up again, what was the grid like? or was there still a grid with 'No listings'?

FWIW, someone else in my market is having problem getting past just getting the clock and ads. He syas he still hasn't been able to hget the grid using the Artec. he has OTA only. he has tried this more than a few times with no luck. Reception is no issue and I believe he knows how the Artec gets connected etc.

HoustonPerson

02-13-10, 12:30 PM

Anyone that has unplugged their deck for an extended period of time (say at least a week or two) when they powered it back up again, what was the grid like? or was there still a grid with 'No listings'?

The longest with "no power" here was with Hurricane Ike. 17 days with no electricity. The SonyBox, TV's, AC and just about everything else was unplug for saftey reasons. Lot's of people in my neighborhood lost their TV's, AC's etc when the power came back on. I also turned off the switch main to the house, and took my time (day or two) turning circuits back on. It took the electric company 3 more days to make it all stable again. That was 20 days.

The SonyBox did not lose its grid. In 3-4 days it had all listings back. No action on my part. It was analogue then. LOL

Possumgirl

02-13-10, 12:38 PM

Ok, if everyone can chime in again; the questions are:

1. How often does your HostChannel Set?
2. How often does it go blank?

My thinking is: If everything is “perfect” it should set “twice” in every NumSearch (about 4.5 days)? But of course that has not been happening at my house, so I cannot prove it one way or another. I think I have had only “3” legitimate HostChannel sets in 9 months (Artec does not count). I am guessing that “perfect” is: The HostChannel is “set” for about 2 days, then blanks for 2 days, and repeats again, etc. But again I do not know?

Conversely, having the HostChannel set once every 4 months for a day or two does not seem correct either.

Does your HostChannel set twice within every NumSearch (about 4.5 days)?

Does your HostChannel set once per NumSearch?

Does your HostChannel only set once a week, or bi-weekly, or once a month?

Do you think your HostChannel only sets when the box thinks it needs it? For example a new grid is required? Thus your HostChannel can be blank for months?

If everyone is able to be descriptive as they can, it can sort of give me an idea of what should be happening, and how often I should see a HostChannel set.

Thanks

Not sure I'm following your line of "reasoning" here, :D:D:D, or even exactly what you're asking, but here goes. I've been tracking the comings & goings of the host channel on both my units (OTA only) since last July, as well as how often they receive TimeZone packets.

When the host channel sets, it stays set for 78 hours and 10 minutes. Sometimes that 10 min. varies from 6-12 min. but it's most often exact. A few times one unit or the other has kept or lost the host an hour or two outside the "norm".

The time it takes for the host to set again has no set pattern whatsoever. It can be as little as 4-5 hours or as long as two weeks. There is some correlation between receiving TimeZone packets and host setting, but I don't know what it is. If no TZ packets are received the host won't set; however, receiving TZ packets does not mean the host will set either.

A NumSearch starts when the host blanks out. The last search cause will show as 26. A search lasts 4 days and 8 hours (exactly) unless the host has set before that. If it hasn't, the NumSearch increments by one and last search cause will be 12 (the previous cause will now be 26). That pattern will continue until the host sets.

I don't know what you mean about the host setting twice within a NumSearch. The search stops when the host sets. When the host blanks, a NEW search starts.

jtbell

02-13-10, 12:46 PM

The longest with "no power" here was with Hurricane Ike. 17 days with no electricity.

When my wife and I went to Europe for three weeks last summer, I powered-off and unplugged all my A/V equipment, including my two Sonys. When we got back, I had a channel grid on both of them, completely filled with "No Listing," of course. The listings returned by the following morning.

mabuttra

02-13-10, 01:34 PM

First of all I would like to say thanks to EVERYONE that has helped me work on the SonyBox. The information is invaluable.

Mark you are absolutely at the top of that list. You have helped me a be-zillion times. The HostSUFlag “set” gizmo, helps tell me where I am; and as you know I will often forget……..I have used it many times. Also, twice in December (I think it was), I used the routine you made using GTest with the original SonyBox firmware (.05 in my case), and bumping the box up in an attempt to build a grid from scratch. I learned a lot from that.

Thanks for the kind words :o.

Ok, if everyone can chime in again; the questions are:

1. How often does your HostChannel Set?

Mine sets about twice a week. Recently, my host channel has been setting in under 24 hours after it blanks, sometimes it takes 48 hours though. It rarely makes it to the 4.5 day new NumSearch cycle, before setting again. See the attached pic of one such quick set. It went from NumSearch start to host channel set (LastASetEnd) in less than 3.5 hours.

2. How often does it go blank?

It blanks approximately 3.5 days after the host channel sets (always > 3 days, and < 4 days).

The pattern has been: Host channel sets, then 3.5 days later it blanks. By the end of day 4 it sets again. On day 8 it usually blanks again, and by the end of day 9 it is usually set again.

My thinking is: If everything is “perfect” it should set “twice” in every NumSearch (about 4.5 days)?

A NumSearch is a "search for host channel" operation. There are no NumSearches done when your host channel is already set. So a host channel will only set once during a NumSearch, because when it blanks a new NumSearch is started.

I am guessing that “perfect” is: The HostChannel is “set” for about 2 days, then blanks for 2 days, and repeats again, etc. But again I do not know?

Ideally, if you bought one of these off ebay, plugged it in when you got it, got a grid in a day, and there was never a TVGOS outage, or power loss for a year. At the end of that year, it would still show NumSearch 1. Nothing is ideal however, and because of the 3 day host channel blank glitch (I do believe it is a glitch, and not how it was designed), Numsearches are having to be started at least every 3.5 days.

Does your HostChannel set twice within every NumSearch (about 4.5 days)?

No, see explanation above.

Does your HostChannel set once per NumSearch?

Pretty much. I rarely see the 4.5 day (start new NumSearch) cycle.

Does your HostChannel only set once a week, or bi-weekly, or once a month?

When I did my experiment back in November where I intentionally blanked the host channel (forcing a new NumSearch) each night for 10 days straight, my host channel set 3 times which comes out to 2.1 sets per week. When I repeated that experiment a couple of weeks later, my host channel set 4 times in 10 days which comes out to 2.8 sets per week.

Do you think your HostChannel only sets when the box thinks it needs it? For example a new grid is required? Thus your HostChannel can be blank for months?

My host channel sets anytime it receives the 9 pieces, or sets of data that are indicated by the HostSUFlags.

Hope this helps,
Mark

mabuttra

02-13-10, 02:01 PM

[...]

When the host channel sets, it stays set for 78 hours and 10 minutes. Sometimes that 10 min. varies from 6-12 min. but it's most often exact. A few times one unit or the other has kept or lost the host an hour or two outside the "norm".

[...]

A NumSearch starts when the host blanks out. The last search cause will show as 26. A search lasts 4 days and 8 hours (exactly) unless the host has set before that. If it hasn't, the NumSearch increments by one and last search cause will be 12 (the previous cause will now be 26). That pattern will continue until the host sets.

[...]

Possumgirl,

I think he wanted you to be more specific. :D:D:D:D:D

Seriously, that is impressive, I never realised that those times were so repeatable. I just always went along with the 3.5 day, and 4.5 day numbers.

Mark

rcrach

02-13-10, 04:48 PM

Anybody in the SF bay area having strange problems? The last few days some new channels were added to the guide, it's incomplete, and whenever a scheduled recording starts it locks out the remote and the clock jumps back an hour like it thinks it's daylight savings time. this only happens when a recording starts. This kind of thing happened a few years ago when new channels were added and turned on by the guide download. Based on passed experience this is a TVGOS download glitch and will probably correct itself eventually. Anybody aware of problems KPIX is having?

HoustonPerson

02-14-10, 12:32 PM

Thanks Possumgirl and Mark. You have answered all my questions, filled in all the blanks, and clarified many many things for me. :D

I will generate another set of questions in a day or two, so it will be awhile before I respond, in greater detail.

There are still three major areas I am pursuing:

1. Rovi TVGOS – what they are sending out. That is out of my control.

2. Antenna issues- already some very positive results there, but have not won the cigar just yet.

3. The SonyBox itself-could be something wrong inside-it could even be just dust inside.

But most important, for now I know what, when, and where I should be seeing. Thanks again. :)

HoustonPerson

02-15-10, 11:10 AM

Mark and Possumgirl,

Because there are so many questions/issues interrelated I will break them down into small parts at a time, starting with Possumgirl's comments:

>>The time it takes for the host to set again has no set pattern whatsoever. It can be as little as 4-5 hours or as long as two weeks.

Ok, so the HostChannel can stay blank for up to 2 weeks. During the time it is blank, what is taking place in the center column on the ATSC Slicer page?

Does it blank out too?

Or continue normally as if the HostChannel is still set?

Or ? (something else?)

--------------------------------

Next Question:

Possumgirl, on the two DVR’s your have. What is the original firmware? .05 like mine? Or .13 like Marks? Or something else? Has either unit been sent to Sony for repairs/upgrades etc?

-------------------------------------

>>I don't know what you mean about the host setting twice within a NumSearch.

Ok, I see my question made no sense because I did not know there would be no NumSearch unless the HostChannel was blank again. All I have ever seen for 9 months is a NumSearch every 4 days 8 hours. And during my 4 plus day NumSearch my VBIState would always cycle twice (maybe 3 times?), start at 0x0 and go to 0x05, then stop there a couple of days, then start over again at 0x0 and go to 0x05...........never getting higher within the NumSearch; until finally another NumSearch would start again. It has followed that basic pattern for 9 months.

More later guys. I can only take small steps at a time. Thanks

Possumgirl

02-15-10, 11:48 AM

....

Ok, so the HostChannel can stay blank for up to 2 weeks. During the time it is blank, what is taking place in the center column on the ATSC Slicer page?

Does it blank out too?

Or continue normally as if the HostChannel is still set?

Or ? (something else?)

The center column does not increment while the host is blank. It stays wherever it was until the host sets again. I should mention that my 500 doesn't update the HostChan column even when the host is set! It increments a few entries (presumably) just as the host sets, then nothing after that. My 250 works as intended and increments that column when host is not blank.

BTW, the host channel might stay blank a lot longer than two weeks. It just seems to set whenever it darn well feels like it!

--------------------------------

Next Question:

Possumgirl, on the two DVR’s your have. What is the original firmware? .05 like mine? Or .13 like Marks? Or something else? Has either unit been sent to Sony for repairs/upgrades etc?

I bought the 500 new and it had .05 firmware. A little over a year ago I upgraded it to .13 (after I finally found this wonderful forum :)) and it is now on the .21 firmware. I bought the 250 off eBay. It's previous owner had sent it to Sony for the .13 upgrade so that is now its base version. Of course, I've updated it to .21 also.

HoustonPerson

02-15-10, 12:00 PM

More Questions:

Ok on the Sony Software Version screen – Pic 8105 – Digital Off Air Signal bottom right corner AND while tuned to the TVGOS station:

The highest “signal strength” you see is 94% ? Never 100%?
Quality: Do ever you see “Very Good” or “Excellent”? Years ago I thought this use to be Very Good and Excellent?
Does “Quality” fluctuate at various TVGOS download times?

Observation Here:

Oh my original house antenna hook up, the Quality would or could change 2 or 3 times “per second” – depending on what TVGOS was downloading at the time – Good/Normal/Below Normal – I would see all three of those within one or two seconds. Yes it would be Below Normal while at 94% strength; this is after the first few seconds of stabilizing, but only on the TVGOS station while TVGOS activity is occurring.

Now on a alternative antenna hook up – 1)removed distribution amp, 2) two Winegard LT-4000 Line Taps and 3) bypassed 75’ of corrupted RG59 and replaced with temporary 100’ RG6 Quad – the quality will now be Good for about 4-6 seconds and then Normal for about 4-6 seconds during TVGOS activity while tuned to the TVGOS station. During no TVGOS activity or tuning to any other stations it just stays on Good all the time.

Two other changes in this alternative antenna hook up. “Slicer Errors” on the ATSC Slicer page are half what they use to be. DPP’s are now about 5 per day average versus 1 per week. All of this could be attributable to Rovi?

Basic question to you see different “Quality” at different times while tuned to your TVGOS station?

HoustonPerson

02-15-10, 06:00 PM

Timeline-all times are GMT and approximate:

2/2/10 16:37 install rabbit ears with unplug/plug.

2/3/10 19:45 HostChannel is set, HostSU is 0xff8, VBIState is 0x08 with new digital grid (replaces the existing analogue grid), with full 8 day listings and ads. Completed HostChannel Set in about 27 hours after unplug/plug. SonyBox ran perfect for about 2 days, zero problems; other than rabbit ears did not pull in all channels, and even the CBS TVGOS station would sometimes come and go, especially at night.

2/5/10 2:09 SonyBox did a self re-set 800A. At that time it lost all ads and all listings-but retained the digital empty digital grid. VBIState stayed at 0x08; but HostSU started over at ground zero, but all three columns on ATSC page continued to update in unison? Very strange?

2/6/10 No change in status from above. ATSC slicer continued to update, but zero NumSearch “0” activity. HostChannel is still set. No Listings and No ads. It stayed in that mode with No NumSearch, then in about 2 days it did another 800A- still no ads and no listings, until I took action – next step.

2/9/10 15:51Performed a Soft Reset. This Soft Reset began a 2 different antenna experiments (no rabbit ears this time). This Soft Reset Cleared the ATSC page and HostChannel set; and the unit began receiving ads and listings again. The Soft Reset began NumSearch ”1” – after being zero for a few days. The current antenna connection is: Antenna in the attic – 25’ RG59 to upstairs closet and is – couple to 100’ RG6 Quad Core to splitter at back of TV & SonyBox downstairs. This connection by-passes damaged 75’ RG59, distribution amp, and (2) Winegard LT-4000 Line Taps.

2/15/09 Unit is receiving ads and full 8 days listings for the last several nights. No HostChannel set, Center column of ATSC page is zero. Box operates 100% correctly. NumSearch 2 should begin by tomorrow.

I have pictures for about 80% of the above, so let me know.

mabuttra

02-15-10, 08:04 PM

[...]

Ok, I see my question made no sense because I did not know there would be no NumSearch unless the HostChannel was blank again. All I have ever seen for 9 months is a NumSearch every 4 days 8 hours. And during my 4 plus day NumSearch my VBIState would always cycle twice (maybe 3 times?), start at 0x0 and go to 0x05, then stop there a couple of days, then start over again at 0x0 and go to 0x05...........never getting higher within the NumSearch; until finally another NumSearch would start again. It has followed that basic pattern for 9 months.

More later guys. I can only take small steps at a time. Thanks

I'm curious, have you seen VBIState values of 0x00, 0x01, and 0x02? 0x03 is the lowest value I have ever seen. Look at this (http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080142/images/005.jpg) picture from my 08.01.42 recovery page. It was taken right after a 'Reset to factory defaults', and before the G* Test was run (which means no TVGOS data being received). The VBIState is already at 0x03. Just for fun I went through all the VBI Info pictures in the 08.01.42 recovery procedure, and here are the values the VBIState was, in each picture:
0x03, 0x05, 0x03, 0x05, 0x03, 0x04, 0x05, and 0x07 (host channel set).

Then I went through the 08.01.71 recovery page and did the same thing:
0x03, 0x05, 0x05, 0x05, 0x05, 0x05, and 0x08 (Host channel set).

In each case the 0x03 was there when the DVR was either dead in the water (waiting for G* Test to be run), or had not yet received a clock set (which was the case in the first 08.01.71 picture). However, I can't conclude that is the only time it would happen. When you see a number like 0x03, and then it is followed by 0x04, and 0x05, it is easy to jump to the conclusion that it must have been at 0x00 at some point, but I have never seen it. If you have actually seen it at 0x00, I'd like to know what condition the DVR was in when you saw it.

Mark

mabuttra

02-15-10, 08:28 PM

More Questions:

Ok on the Sony Software Version screen – Pic 8105 – Digital Off Air Signal bottom right corner AND while tuned to the TVGOS station:

The highest “signal strength” you see is 94% ? Never 100%?
Quality: Do ever you see “Very Good” or “Excellent”? Years ago I thought this use to be Very Good and Excellent?
Does “Quality” fluctuate at various TVGOS download times?

I don't know what my signal strength does at download times. Here is what it was doing tonight:

Strength 88%, Quality: Good. This is normal, I'm not sure I ever see 94%, or anything above 'Good', because my host channel is one of my two weakest channels (almost all the other channels are 94%).

I have a variable attenuator on my antenna line, but it is always on 0 (no attenuation). I turned it all the way to max, and the signal level dropped to 33%- 38%, Quality was Below Normal, and I had no picture. The picture started to comeback at around 50% signal level, but was breaking up most of the time. At 55% - 60% (fluctuating), the picture was no longer breaking up (it seemed to be back to normal), and the quality was still Below Normal. At 66% -72% (fluctuating) the quality returned to Good.

Mark

HoustonPerson

02-16-10, 08:37 AM

Mark, overall very good question on the VBIState, got my brain really working, so I scanned all the pictures quickly to work my memory more – YIKES!

Pic 7193: VBIState 0x0c this is the only picture I have, but not important for the question at hand. I have seen crazy VBIState like this a few times during the May 15, 2009 to June ??, 2009 when my Sony Box kept changing from digital to analogue on its own. I have no record of VBIState doing this after June 2009. There may have been other times I have seen other letters during that time frame only, but have no pictures.

But with the question you have made and I have gone back and looked at it: It appears VBIState will start at 0x00 (0x00 after a major user reset - which I have seen a few times) and “immediately” go to 0x03. I do not think I have ever seen a 0x02?

Pic 7753: User Configuration Reset Begins

Pic 7760: Initially this entire screen is all zeros, but within a second or two, the dates fill in and VBIState goes to 0x03. The actual date for Pic 7753 and 7760 is 9/16/2009.

So with that, when I say the VBIState starts to cycle again within the NumSearch, it starts at 0x03, then 0x04, and then 0x05 –typically sets there about 2 days and starts over again with 0x03. I had just assumed it started over at 0x00 and just moved to quickly for me to see it or get a picture. I see 0x03, 0x04, and 0x05 quite often.

mabuttra

02-16-10, 10:41 AM

[...]

Pic 7193: VBIState 0x0c this is the only picture I have, but not important for the question at hand. I have seen crazy VBIState like this a few times during the May 15, 2009 to June ??, 2009 when my Sony Box kept changing from digital to analogue on its own. I have no record of VBIState doing this after June 2009. There may have been other times I have seen other letters during that time frame only, but have no pictures.

I see 0x0c every once in a while, always after the host channel is set, which is why you wouldn't have seen it since the transition. Here are the values that I see:

Blank host channel: 0x03, 0x04, 0x05

Host channel set: 0x06, 0x07, 0x08, 0x0c

Mark

HoustonPerson

02-16-10, 11:33 AM

I see 0x0c every once in a while, always after the host channel is set, which is why you wouldn't have seen it since the transition. Here are the values that I see:

Blank host channel: 0x03, 0x04, 0x05

Host channel set: 0x06, 0x07, 0x08, 0x0c

Mark

At this point it is about 8-10 hours into NumSearch "2" on the alternate antenna hook up. I will leave it there to NumSearch "5" to see if there is any change. Then just try the rabbit again, or back to the original house system -without reset. But eventually I will have to get the 100' cable run out of the house LOL

It is working perfectly and it is built with a digital grid, so as long as it works that way it will be fine.

skullz5150

02-16-10, 11:49 AM

Does anyone know which cox cable digital channel in wichita, ks that passes tvgos ?

mabuttra

02-16-10, 12:13 PM

Does anyone know which cox cable digital channel in wichita, ks that passes tvgos ?

Well, I am in Wichita, and I bet I know why you are asking. TVGOS has been shut off since last Friday. I was hoping they (KWCH) would turn it back on yesterday, but it didn't happen. I thought I'd give it another day, before I contact them. More specifically, Cox converts the SCTE-127 data from KWCH, and sends it out on analog channel 12. However, KWCH has stopped transmitting the data, so there is no data for Cox to convert. Also, KWCH is on digital channel 115.6, or something like that, but since they aren't sending the data, that won't help you either.

Mark

JoeKustra

02-16-10, 05:24 PM

Well, I am in Wichita, and I bet I know why you are asking. TVGOS has been shut off since last Friday. I was hoping they (KWCH) would turn it back on yesterday, but it didn't happen. I thought I'd give it another day, before I contact them. More specifically, Cox converts the SCTE-127 data from KWCH, and sends it out on analog channel 12. However, KWCH has stopped transmitting the data, so there is no data for Cox to convert. Also, KWCH is on digital channel 115.6, or something like that, but since they aren't sending the data, that won't help you either.

Mark

My deepest sympathy. If it can happen to you it can happen to me. I'll light a candle for you.

Remember to aim as high as possible. I've always received a better response when going to the top of the food chain.

mabuttra

02-16-10, 06:27 PM

My deepest sympathy. If it can happen to you it can happen to me. I'll light a candle for you.

Thanks I appreciate it. :D

Remember to aim as high as possible. I've always received a better response when going to the top of the food chain.

My "contact" is actually in the News department, but he has always been willing to pass on my issues to the engineers, and they have always been resolved. I just hope they aren't pulling an "Atlanta", and have decided after a year, that TVGOS is bad, and they aren't going to send it out any more. If that happens, then my DVR may just be one power outage away from ebay. :p

Mark

JoeKustra

02-16-10, 07:09 PM

Thanks I appreciate it. :D

My "contact" is actually in the News department, but he has always been willing to pass on my issues to the engineers, and they have always been resolved. I just hope they aren't pulling an "Atlanta", and have decided after a year, that TVGOS is bad, and they aren't going to send it out any more. If that happens, then my DVR may just be one power outage away from ebay. :p

Mark

I hope things work out well, but don't give up until you contact the head of the chicken. I've had two good outcomes from that method, including one from Comcast, and two pending bad ones. I also have a box of VCR tapes that have rebuilt a clock and grid. I got all three of my DHG units from eBay and they don't go back until they get pulled from my cold dead hands. [C. Heston]

Cox top banana: President: Patrick J. (Pat) Esser
If things get bad, write him a letter. Address is in Atlanta (private company though, but stats are on Yahoo Finance).

Remember, I get my data from CSPAN. No networks needed. That might help since cable companies pay for CSPAN.

HoustonPerson

02-16-10, 07:37 PM

mabuttra

02-16-10, 10:46 PM

I hope things work out well, but don't give up until you contact the head of the chicken. I've had two good outcomes from that method, including one from Comcast, and two pending bad ones. I also have a box of VCR tapes that have rebuilt a clock and grid. I got all three of my DHG units from eBay and they don't go back until they get pulled from my cold dead hands. [C. Heston]

Cox top banana: President: Patrick J. (Pat) Esser
If things get bad, write him a letter. Address is in Atlanta (private company though, but stats are on Yahoo Finance).

Remember, I get my data from CSPAN. No networks needed. That might help since cable companies pay for CSPAN.

My DHG is just OTA, so it is definitely a problem at the CBS station. I also have a panasonic DMR-E95H analog DVR that is on Cox. Both only have listings through this coming Friday. Since the data has completely stopped, it should be pretty easy for them to track down (I wouldn't be surprised if they already know why it is out). I did contact the guy, and he was on his way out, but said he would stop by, and let the engineers know about it.

Mark

mabuttra

02-16-10, 10:54 PM

You have no ads or listings?

Still have clock?

Do you think the week before when my box lost listings and ads for a few days it was the same thing as Kansas? It looked like stuff was still coming in the box; but appeared the 800A's were the killer? It did not make any sense (other than the 800A's) why everything stopped.

I still have a clock, unless I were to lose power, then it would be gone... or at least be off. I have listings through this coming Friday. I also have a panasonic analog DVR that gets listings from analog CBS, and it also only has listings through Friday. My host channel blanked Friday, not too long after the outage began, and my HostSUFlags has been 0x0000000 ever since.

Mark

St. Louis Area

02-16-10, 11:23 PM

I've also had problems getting the TVGOS signal in the St. Louis area for about a week now. I contacted KMOV, our local CBS station that provides the data, and got the following update from their Director of Technology - Broadcast Media on Monday, Feb. 15, 2010:

*********************
We have bypassed the TV Guide data encoder as it was causing problems with our signal for a number of viewers. They were having to rescan their converter boxes several times a day to be able to watch the station. TV Guide is aware of the problem, which is occurring at a number of TV stations around the country, and is working to come up with a fix. We will return the TV Guide data to our signal as soon as they correct the problem.
**********************

This gentleman said that Rovi is working on the problem and they hope to have a fix for testing later this week. If that happens and the testing goes well, they could possibly have the TVGOS data feed turned on again next week. However, he made no guarantees and it was clear that the TVGOS data is a lower priority than keeping the KMOV signal viewable for their cable users.

I thought it was interesting that this appears to be happening at TV stations around the country. So if your TVGOS display stops populating program data for no apparent reason, you may want to check with the TV station that provides your data. I've gotten no response back from Rovi on my inquiries about the ETA for their fix.

Lance

TheRatPatrol

02-16-10, 11:40 PM

Wanted to let everyone know that I now have an entry for The Pentagon Channel (http://www.pentagonchannel.mil/). I emailed TVGOS/Rovi about the possibility of getting listings for it, and surprisingly they wrote me back saying that they had added it. I just now found it and turned it on, there are no listings yet. I'll report back if I get listings.
Just an update, I am getting listings now for this channel. Everything is correct and working great here.

Thanks

bow1213

02-17-10, 12:28 AM

skullz5150

02-17-10, 04:02 AM

Well, I am in Wichita, and I bet I know why you are asking. TVGOS has been shut off since last Friday. I was hoping they (KWCH) would turn it back on yesterday, but it didn't happen. I thought I'd give it another day, before I contact them. More specifically, Cox converts the SCTE-127 data from KWCH, and sends it out on analog channel 12. However, KWCH has stopped transmitting the data, so there is no data for Cox to convert. Also, KWCH is on digital channel 115.6, or something like that, but since they aren't sending the data, that won't help you either.

Mark
I lost all listings the end of last week. i was thinking it was due to installing the cable card. it was set up for OTA only. so i reset the dvr like a dummy and now i have no clock or grid. NICE! i have owned this sony dhg-hdd250 DVR for a month now and it was nice while it lasted. i bought it for $450 NIB.

HoustonPerson

02-17-10, 07:18 AM

Ok, so I got a new digital grid on 2/3/10 with a rabbit (HostChannel and New Grid in 27 hours).

Worked perfect for 2 days.

On 2/5/10 got 800A and stopped receiving listings and ads.

About 2/7/10 got another 800A (I could tell box was unhappy and at war with itself). Still No Ads and No Listings.

2/9/10 changed antenna’s and did a soft reset. Ads and listings returned very quickly, but have not received a HostChannel Set since.

Mark I think you are absolutely correct – Rovi has a program in place to drive me crazy.

mabuttra

02-17-10, 07:30 AM

I lost all listings the end of last week. i was thinking it was due to installing the cable card. it was set up for OTA only. so i reset the dvr like a dummy and now i have no clock or grid. NICE! i have owned this sony dhg-hdd250 DVR for a month now and it was nice while it lasted. i bought it for $450 NIB.

Well if it is any consolation, you would have lost the grid anyway when you installed the cable card. However, you would still have a clock. I'll contact KWCH again today, but from what the St. Louis people have reported, I wouldn't be surprised if I get a similar story.

...TV Guide is aware of the problem, which is occurring at a number of TV stations around the country, and is working to come up with a fix...

Does that sound familiar? They were reporting the same thing when this happened in Atlanta several months ago. We all know what Rovi's "fix" was then... nothing. They moved the equipment to the PBS station, and got them to transmit their buggy signal.

Mark

mabuttra

02-17-10, 07:59 AM

Does that sound familiar? They were reporting the same thing when this happened in Atlanta several months ago. We all know what Rovi's "fix" was then... nothing. They moved the equipment to the PBS station, and got them to transmit their buggy signal.

Mark

On the other hand, I believe that there were several cities affected at the time of the Atlanta outage (Tulsa comes to mind). They all reported basically the same thing (waiting on a fix from Rovi). As far as I know, those other cities did start transmitting the data again. So maybe the problem with the Atlanta CBS station was that they just got tired of having to mess with Rovi's hardware (can't say I blame them).

Mark

JoeKustra

02-17-10, 09:00 AM

On the other hand, I believe that there were several cities affected at the time of the Atlanta outage (Tulsa comes to mind). They all reported basically the same thing (waiting on a fix from Rovi). As far as I know, those other cities did start transmitting the data again. So maybe the problem with the Atlanta CBS station was that they just got tired of having to mess with Rovi's hardware (can't say I blame them).

Mark

I think "something" is happening. Usually my day 8 is full by 6:30am. Since last Friday there have been gaps in the day 8 listings. I thought it was only NBC/U but this morning ABC had several "no listing" blocks. However, this was only on the unit that does an HD recording from 11:30pm to 12:35am. The other units that are on standby after 11pm are just fine. So far. I know these problems have a way of creeping across the country, so I expect things to get worse before they get better.

RockyF

02-17-10, 09:59 AM

I haven't had listings in about a week, in Little Rock, AR. Noticed a couple of days ago that my clock was gone too. I'm assuming it's related to the same outages others are reporting, but I'm going to e-mail my CBS station now.

mabuttra

02-17-10, 11:31 AM

I did contact the guy, and he was on his way out, but said he would stop by, and let the engineers know about it.

Here's an update. I called the guy back this morning, and asked what he found out. He said they are unaware of any problems. They have a TV that gets the TV guide (probably Version 9), and he said they always look at it when there is a problem reported. He told me that it has listings... So then I asked if they looked out several days, or just at today's listings, and he said just today's listings. :rolleyes: I have listings through Friday, so I told him to have them look at Saturday's listings. He was headed back there to tell them to do that. I'm kind of glad that it doesn't appear that they intentionally turned it off.

Mark

mabuttra

02-17-10, 12:31 PM

Here's an update. I called the guy back this morning, and asked what he found out. He said they are unaware of any problems. They have a TV that gets the TV guide (probably Version 9), and he said they always look at it when there is a problem reported. He told me that it has listings... So then I asked if they looked out several days, or just at today's listings, and he said just today's listings. :rolleyes: I have listings through Friday, so I told him to have them look at Saturday's listings. He was headed back there to tell them to do that. I'm kind of glad that it doesn't appear that they intentionally turned it off.

I just called them again, and they have verified there is a problem, and they are going to work on it. :)

Mark

mstanl

02-17-10, 02:51 PM

Just FYI HoustonPerson,

All 3 of my HDD500s are correct and no problems, have grid and listings
working fine. I'm in Seabrook area.

Mike

JoeKustra

02-17-10, 04:53 PM

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Rovi-Corp-ROVI-Positioned-To-twst-1288466714.html?x=0&.v=1)

I found the part about revenue sharing to guide carriers most interesting.

mabuttra

02-17-10, 07:03 PM

I just called them again, and they have verified there is a problem, and they are going to work on it. :)

Mark

All back to normal again. My host channel even set today. :cool:

Mark

videobruce

02-18-10, 07:17 AM

I found the part about revenue sharing to guide carriers most interesting.Just a bunch of clueless yuppies that want to stuff their pockets. Rovi previously announced all of these grandiose plans which I doubt will go anywhere.

kookmyers

02-18-10, 03:19 PM

Who's buying these things and how does one find them? Ebay's final value fees kill everything and craigslist hasent worked....

JoeKustra

02-18-10, 07:18 PM

Who's buying these things and how does one find them? Ebay's final value fees kill everything and craigslist hasent worked....

People with TVGOS are buying them on eBay. People who have lost TVGOS or switched to a different HD recording method are selling them on eBay. Most sell between $300 and $500 depending on condition. From your post it's unclear whether you are buying or selling.

hdaddiction

02-19-10, 12:20 AM

My guide has been gone for about a week, got this info from the head engineer in StLouis

We have had to bypass the TV Guide encoder due to problems it was causing with our over the air signal. They have developed a fix that is being tested at this time. As soon as testing is done we will return the TV Guide data to our signal.

He estimates it will be up by March 1.

HDAddiction

bow1213

02-19-10, 07:26 AM

videobruce

02-19-10, 08:37 AM

kookmyers; I have three, one new, two used. One off of ebay and the other from a member here. The lowest I have seen a 250 was just under $300. The highest I have seen a 500 was over $750 (if I remember correctly).

kookmyers

02-19-10, 03:47 PM

Cool, Thanks. I guess I will try to post mine again on craigslist and hopefully someone will bite. I agree, my post is not clear since i was trying to ask how to find buyers...not find hardware. maybe i just need to suck it up and pay the ebay premium.

WS65711

02-19-10, 04:11 PM

kook -

I have personally bought one new 500 on ebay in 2006, and two used 500's here from forum members over the past 16 months. I know that others have bought from forum members also. If you mention what you have and how uch you want, and your location, someone may just "hit you up". ;)

kookmyers

02-19-10, 08:05 PM

HoustonPerson

02-20-10, 11:39 AM

Pic 8119: Slicer Errors do appear to be 40% to 70% less with the current alternative antenna hook up. That is comparing to previous pictures over the last 9 months or so. This is “not” a real scientific comparison and calculation, just an appearance – too many other variables to make a real test comparison.

Pic 8119 con’t:
What are Skipped TVG1 and Skipped TVG2? Does this mean that some of the TVG incoming to the Sony Box are “skipped” and not processed as it should be? FWIW: the PID Usage Chart from “Rabbit Ears” does match what is reported on this screen for station 11-1 – but that is old news.

0x0111 (0.01% ~ 0.00 Mbps) ________________________________________ 0x0111 ISO/IEC 13818-1 private_sections for program 3

0x0112 (0.01% ~ 0.00 Mbps) ________________________________________ 0x0112 ISO/IEC 13818-1 private_sections for program 3

So that does imply TVG1 and 2 are important – but just what are they and what is the meaning of being “skipped”?

Pic 8120: VBIState did cycle last night – this time I have seen 2 cycles in both NumSearch 1 and 2 (there may have been 3, but I did not see them). And finally, with this cycle HostSUFlag got to 0xf78 (was 0xe68) – but alas, NumSearch 3 is very close at hand.

Pic 8122: And here we go again. 4 days 8 hours and just a couple of minutes. VBIState and HostSUFlag begin again.

catmother

02-20-10, 01:34 PM

Thanks all,
I have the 250. i am the original owner and have the box and manual. it is in perfect shape except for a tiny tiny ding that i made on day 1 when i was putting it in the cabinet. If i didnt say anything, i doubt someone would see it. Really, you would have to be looking for it. The seal on the back has not been broken. i guess based on other posts i would be looking for "just under 300". I am in san diego and i no longer receive the guide data. i have not looked too much into it because this forum is too long. I have updated it to the newest firmware from sony.
This is surprising. My 4 year old HDD250 is still receiving TVGOS via TWC on Channel 6 analog from XETV.
Even with the latest firmware the DVR still likes the analog VBI data and survived the DTV transition without a hiccup.
XETV also transmits TVGOS on analog Ch 6. With the old VHF antenna I get an excellent signal from XETV.

Are you on TWC or COX.
If TWC ,bring me the DVR and it will be resurrected.

My location is Soledad Rd, La Jolla

mabuttra

02-20-10, 03:05 PM

HoustonPerson

02-20-10, 04:10 PM

HoustonPerson,

I can't answer your question about skipped TVG1 & TVG2 data, but I attached a picture of my ATSC slicer screen from a few minutes ago. All my counts were cleared a month ago today, so this is data acquired in a months time (minus 4 days of TVGOS outage this last week).

Looks like I averaged about 200 slicer errors per day over the last month.

If I recall correctly from other conversations on here, I don't think the Sony uses TVG2 data, but just TVG1 data (at least that was the speculation). It looks like I averaged > 20000 skipped TVG1 data packets per day. That seems like a lot (assuming it is bad). It could explain all the day 7 and day 8 'No Listing'/'No Title' entries that I seem to have. During my TVGOS outage this last week, I had to set a manual recording for Lost, because its time slot was 'No Title' when the outage started a week ago. The Lost rerun, that they show before the new episode, was correct however.

Mark

Thanks for the feedback Mark. Your ATSC Slicer page is more similar to the old pictures I had regarding Slicer errors. Basically, I am just doing quick mental math of “slicer errors” to “total sections”, and that is where I was coming up with about a 40% to 70% decrease in errors.

I had heard/read that there may be also a TVG3 as well but not reported on the Sony DVR Slicer page? However, there is no correlation to a TVG3 on the PID Usage data for KHOU from Rabbit Ears Info that I could find? So I do not know about that.

I think I had heard or read? That TVG1 is the legacy portion of TVGOS and the TVG2 is the digital portion, but I have no clue on that either?

One thing I do see – percentage wise in comparing your Slicer page to mine is: The percentage of Skipped TVG2 is many many times higher than what you are reporting on your Sony DVR. 280/2374132 vs. 179/7243363 I have no idea if that is of any significance regarding lack of HostChannel set here?

Today I have noticed in my SonyDVR: Instead of flying from VBIState of 0x03 to 0x05 almost instantly (typically less than 30min) and stopping, it has only made it to 0x04 with a HostSUFlag of 0xe68 in about 7 hours. So perhaps if it spent a little more time in each VBIState it would have enough time to set the correct bits and move on to set HostChannel?

Earlydoptr

02-20-10, 05:24 PM

I've just recently started noticing 1or 2 second audio dropouts on some of my recent HD recordings of "24" (probably due to Jack's shouting, hehehe!). I'm wondering if I'm starting to develop some 'bad sectors' on my hd ? Is there a known technique/procedure for defragging the drive? Thanks ! (I have the 250 & I continually kick myself in the butt for not getting a 500. I made an incorrect assumption that I would be able to drop a larger capacity drive in it like others were doing w/ their LG 3410s . Unfortunatelly , Sony must have been under some pressure to not give this player this ability or a firewire output like the LG had !!

WS65711

02-20-10, 06:23 PM

Are you sure that the audio dropout is repeatable? Most often, if you replay the recorded sequence again you'll find that it plays fine. These units seem to interrupt the 5.1 audio periodically during playback. Even "live" 5.1 is affected, since everything on these units is "played back" off of the hard drive buffer. Nothing is really "live". My units that are connected via the left/right (red/white) 2-channel connections don't seem to exhibit the dropouts that I experience with 5.1 channel sound.

Earlydoptr

02-20-10, 06:36 PM

mabuttra

02-21-10, 12:18 AM

...during my 4 plus day NumSearch my VBIState would always cycle twice (maybe 3 times?), start at 0x0 and go to 0x05, then stop there a couple of days, then start over again at 0x0 and go to 0x05...

I'm curious, have you seen VBIState values of 0x00, 0x01, and 0x02? 0x03 is the lowest value I have ever seen.

Tonight I saw a VBIState of 0x01. Here is how it happened:

My host channel was "scheduled" to blank at approximately 9:55pm. I wanted to watch this happen, so my plan was to go to the VBI Info screen about 9:50pm, and watch for the HostSUFlags to clear, and to see what the VBIState was at that moment. As it turned out I almost missed it. After going to the 753 menu, I checked the host channel, and it was still set, so then I went to the VBI Info screen. First I looked at the HostSUFlags value, and it was still 0xff800000. Then I noticed that the VBIState was 0x01. About 5 seconds later, it changed to 0x03, and the HostSUFlags went to 0x00000000. Next time I plan to allow an extra five minutes, so I hopefully won't cut it that close. If the VBIState is 0x01 moments before the host channel blanks, I want to know what it was before it became 0x01.

Mark

HoustonPerson

02-21-10, 07:43 AM

Tonight I saw a VBIState of 0x01. Here is how it happened:

My host channel was "scheduled" to blank at approximately 9:55pm. I wanted to watch this happen, so my plan was to go to the VBI Info screen about 9:50pm, and watch for the HostSUFlags to clear, and to see what the VBIState was at that moment. As it turned out I almost missed it. After going to the 753 menu, I checked the host channel, and it was still set, so then I went to the VBI Info screen. First I looked at the HostSUFlags value, and it was still 0xff800000. Then I noticed that the VBIState was 0x01. About 5 seconds later, it changed to 0x03, and the HostSUFlags went to 0x00000000. Next time I plan to allow an extra five minutes, so I hopefully won't cut it that close. If the VBIState is 0x01 moments before the host channel blanks, I want to know what it was before it became 0x01.

Mark

If I don’t have a picture of it, it is getting to the point I am not going to remember what I have seen.

I am reasonable confident I have seen 0x00 or 0x0 but it would be after a Reset Factory Default and only last a second? I thought I had picture of that, but never found them.

I thought I had seen 0x01 before, but no picture of that either.

Yesterday, it spent most of its time on 0x03 and 0x04. A second or so after I took the picture of 0x04 it went to 0x05. Normally when VBIState changes the HostSUFlag would change to. I thought it would leave the 0xe68 and go to the next level – it did not? So what I remembered and what it did were not the same.

It still bugs me that Skipped TVG2 percentage is so high. I think it is telling me something but I do not understand the language.

VBIState to me, is like a clutch. Everytime it is stepped on and changes, the box is getting ready to change gears.

JoeKustra

02-21-10, 09:14 AM

Hmm... ,I had'nt thought to recheck to see if those dropouts were actually 'part' of the recording & not a 'live' dropout. I'll have to recheck the next time it occurs as I deleted the recording . Thanks again.

A recording isn't needed to have the audio dropout. Just being tuned to a 5.1 channel should be enough. And even watching anything via the tuner may be enough actually. My theory (just mine) is that the dropout happens when "commiting" the data from a buffer to a hard drive. It's not a great theory though. With regular 2ch stereo I've never heard a dropout. I get them with either HDMI or optical. There's no loss of the 5.1 signal, since my receiver would drop its red indicator with a loss of the signal. Since you mentioned it, the loss of 5.1 signal is common on my LG 3410A when watching an HD recording with SD commercials. Then the dropped audio lasts several seconds into the program and the receiver drops its indicator also.

As was posted, record something in HD. Then play it back, and if a dropout happens, backup and see if it's still there. I find that it's not there.

HoustonPerson

02-21-10, 11:50 AM

A recording isn't needed to have the audio dropout. Just being tuned to a 5.1 channel should be enough. And even watching anything via the tuner may be enough actually. My theory (just mine) is that the dropout happens when "commiting" the data from a buffer to a hard drive. It's not a great theory though. With regular 2ch stereo I've never heard a dropout. I get them with either HDMI or optical. There's no loss of the 5.1 signal, since my receiver would drop its red indicator with a loss of the signal. Since you mentioned it, the loss of 5.1 signal is common on my LG 3410A when watching an HD recording with SD commercials. Then the dropped audio lasts several seconds into the program and the receiver drops its indicator also.

As was posted, record something in HD. Then play it back, and if a dropout happens, backup and see if it's still there. I find that it's not there.

Occasionally, we will get audio drop out on playback – maybe once per show for a second or two. The drop out shows up as “lights out” on the Denon AVR input. The connection is Toslink for the 5.1 sound.

If it is something important we wanted to hear – in a show – we just back track a few seconds and play again. The actual recorded sound(s) are always there.

I too feel it is just another one of those memory overloads and the linux could not process it correctly. I also think the more stations you have in your grid – 518 here – the more likely it will happen. Again not enough memory to handle everything.

So if you are experiencing audio dropout - try to replay that segment - at least it works here (live or recorded). If there was a drop out on the hard disk - then it could be the hard disk, loss of signal, or still even the memory. Hard to say.

mabuttra

02-21-10, 11:51 AM

If I don’t have a picture of it, it is getting to the point I am not going to remember what I have seen.

That's why I try to keep a log of what I've seen. Then I can go back and see on what date and time something happened.

I am reasonable confident I have seen 0x00 or 0x0 but it would be after a Reset Factory Default and only last a second? I thought I had picture of that, but never found them.

Think about that statement. You said it only lasted a second after a Restore Factory Default, but do you realize how long it takes after a restore factory default to get back to a point where you can get to the 753 screen? You have to do a channel scan, then setup the TVGOS, and then go into the 753 menu. Even if you cancel out of the channel scan after a few seconds it still takes two or three minutes to get to that screen. Which means if you only saw it at 0x00 for a second, it had actually been there for several minutes.

I thought I had seen 0x01 before, but no picture of that either.

Yesterday, it spent most of its time on 0x03 and 0x04. A second or so after I took the picture of 0x04 it went to 0x05. Normally when VBIState changes the HostSUFlag would change to. I thought it would leave the 0xe68 and go to the next level – it did not? So what I remembered and what it did were not the same.

Remember the HostSUFlags won't change if it gets the same data twice, so if the VBIState does change based on data received, it could change while, the HostSUFlags does not. However nothing I saw last night was related to data reception. I had been watching the olympics on NBC (not my host channel) for two hours prior to my host channel blanking. So any changes I saw to the VBIState came from within the DVR, and not from data external to the DVR.

It still bugs me that Skipped TVG2 percentage is so high. I think it is telling me something but I do not understand the language.

Here is how the TVG1 data, and TVG2 data are described in that TV Guide pdf document that has been posted here previously.

PID Purpose Format ID Typical PID Stream type
VBI data Legacy TV Guide data service: setup, lineup, listings, ads none 272 (dec.)/ 0x110 0x6
TVG1 Digital TV Guide data service: setup, lineup, listings, ads TVG1 (ASCII)/ 0x54564731 273 (dec.)/ 0x111 0x5
TVG2 Future use, TBD TVG2 (ASCII)/ 0x54564732 274 (dec.)/ 0x112 0x5

From that, I would say that the TVG2 data isn't used in the Sony, and the TVG1 data is used for TVGOS data. That document has a date of October 2008, and since they didn't know what the TVG2 data was going to be then, there is no way the Sony could be relying on it for anything. Also the PID for TVG1 data is actually 0x113 on my DVR.

VBIState to me, is like a clutch. Everytime it is stepped on and changes, the box is getting ready to change gears.

I still say the VBIState is an indicator of what has already happened (it tells us the DVR has just changed gears), and not an indicator of what is going to happen. However, as with most of this, there is really no way to know for sure what it is telling us.

Mark

HoustonPerson

02-21-10, 12:12 PM

That's why I try to keep a log of what I've seen. Then I can go back and see on what date and time something happened.

>>>>I gave up on that because when I read them later I have no idea what they mean.

Think about that statement. You said it only lasted a second after a Restore Factory Default, but do you realize how long it takes after a restore factory default to get back to a point where you can get to the 753 screen? You have to do a channel scan, then setup the TVGOS, and then go into the 753 menu. Even if you cancel out of the channel scan after a few seconds it still takes two or three minutes to get to that screen. Which means if you only saw it at 0x00 for a second, it had actually been there for several minutes.

>>>>Oh dear, let me try again. I have attempted to get to VBIInfo screen as qucikly as possible after completing the "lengthy" process of Restore Factory Defaults. It has almost always been my experiences that when the infor screens are first fired up there is a "delay" and it "always varies".

>>>>So yes, that screen has been all zeros including VBIState after Restore Factory Defaults.

>>>>Example: Normally the ATSC slicer screen when previously changin channels, will "not" report what is happening. If fact I have seen it take as many as "4" sessions to start reporting what "is" happening. I assume this is normal behaviour for all Sony DVR's - but I do not know?

Remember the HostSUFlags won't change if it gets the same data twice, so if the VBIState does change based on data received, it could change while, the HostSUFlags does not. However nothing I saw last night was related to data reception. I had been watching the olympics on NBC (not my host channel) for two hours prior to my host channel blanking. So any changes I saw to the VBIState came from within the DVR, and not from data external to the DVR.

>>>>ok

Here is how the TVG1 data, and TVG2 data are described in that TV Guide pdf document that has been posted here previously.

PID Purpose Format ID Typical PID Stream type
VBI data Legacy TV Guide data service: setup, lineup, listings, ads none 272 (dec.)/ 0x110 0x6
TVG1 Digital TV Guide data service: setup, lineup, listings, ads TVG1 (ASCII)/ 0x54564731 273 (dec.)/ 0x111 0x5
TVG2 Future use, TBD TVG2 (ASCII)/ 0x54564732 274 (dec.)/ 0x112 0x5

>>>>But an old document? and the TVG2 is coming in the box, with the TVGOS PID of 0x112. I assume today is now the future; so for me the question remains. Since TVGOS apprears to be sending it now, what it is for?

From that, I would say that the TVG2 data isn't used in the Sony, and the TVG1 data is used for TVGOS data. That document has a date of October 2008, and since they didn't know what the TVG2 data was going to be then, there is no way the Sony could be relying on it for anything. Also the PID for TVG1 data is actually 0x113 on my DVR.

>>>>What you say is most likely true the SonyDVR does not use it TVG2.
>>>>But more importantly - Can you look up the Rabbit Ears infor for your TVGOS Host and does it show the Private usage of 0x113?

I still say the VBIState is an indicator of what has already happened (it tells us the DVR has just changed gears), and not an indicator of what is going to happen. However, as with most of this, there is really no way to know for sure what it is telling us.

Mark

>>>>inserts above

kookmyers

02-21-10, 12:22 PM

Catmother,
That is very generous of you to offer your time like that. Thank you very much. Unfortunately, I on not on TWC or COX. I only get signal OTA.

Possumgirl

02-21-10, 02:20 PM

Catmother,
That is very generous of you to offer your time like that. Thank you very much. Unfortunately, I on not on TWC or COX. I only get signal OTA.

Kookmyers, I think Catmother was pointing out that XETV also sends the TVGOS data OTA on analog channel 6. So if you can receive that signal you should still be getting your guide data. Perhaps send a PM to Catmother and he can help figure out why you're not getting the guide.

WS65711

02-21-10, 02:22 PM

>>>>But an old document? and the TVG2 is coming in the box, with the TVGOS PID of 0x112. I assume today is now the future; so for me the question remains. Since TVGOS apprears to be sending it now, what it is for?

Assume nothing..... :rolleyes: The attached image is from my Mits TV that uses V-9.1.56, and it apparently gets TVG3 from the HostChan.

hate2sleep

02-21-10, 04:47 PM

catmother

02-21-10, 11:39 PM

Kookmyers, I think Catmother was pointing out that XETV also sends the TVGOS data OTA on analog channel 6. So if you can receive that signal you should still be getting your guide data. Perhaps send a PM to Catmother and he can help figure out why you're not getting the guide.

Check www.hdtv.forsandiego.com (http://www.hdtv.forsandiego.com) and look at the XETV posts.

Gary Stigall, XETV (http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/cgi-bin/board-profile.cgi?action=view_profile&profile=garys-MODERATOR) is Director of Engineering at XETV. He is the authority there.

XETV is still sending TVGOS data on analog Channel 6.
The transmitter is on Mt San Antonia in Tijuana. You will need a VHF antenna pointed to that location.

(http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/cgi-bin/board-profile.cgi?action=editpost&postid=41584&page=76/8017)

mabuttra

02-22-10, 12:00 AM

>>>>But an old document? and the TVG2 is coming in the box, with the TVGOS PID of 0x112. I assume today is now the future; so for me the question remains. Since TVGOS apprears to be sending it now, what it is for?

The document is old, but the Sony is even older. My point is that the DVR can't use data whose purpose wasn't even defined until several years after the Sony was designed (even the 08.01.71 TVGOS has a build date of 2006, which is two years before this document was published). The Sony recognizes the header information which identifies the data as TVG2 data, but it (just like us) has no idea what that data is used for.

>>>>But more importantly - Can you look up the Rabbit Ears infor for your TVGOS Host and does it show the Private usage of 0x113?

I went to rabbit ears, and looked at my host station info, but didn't see anything about PID 0x113. I don't know where you are going with this, or why you think it is important.

Mark

JoeKustra

02-22-10, 12:28 AM

There is soooo much info here I can't wade thru it all. If someone could give me a condensed summary of the good/bad points of adding a cable card to my Sony HDD250 I would really appreciate it!

For OTA-everything is fine. i also get the Comcast cable lineup for the channels that are not currently 'digital'. I get the TVGOS for the local OTA digital channels fine; also can tune in the CABLE digital channels (duplicates of 14-70) that broadcast around 59.4-80.8 and can record them OK though they dont show up in TVGOS with the SONY.

My local Comcast (46835) is moving ch 14-70 to all digital... up above 200 I think. I don't think the Sony will find them there but Im not really sure.

So will the cable card be the way to go?? and what will I loose?

Any suggestions would be very appreciated!

Simple: don't do anything until you lose something you want. How long will it take you to get that CC anyhow? Be prepared to rescan the channels if you find things missing. For me, digital cable channels don't show up on the Sony unless you add the card. That's why I keep a small grid, but make large use of the "favorites" functions. All my recording is manual (and digital).

My cable company is also moving to all digital. They said that last year. They sent me a DTA last year. Still waiting. I'm patient.

Big question: what version Sony firmware are you using? Thanks

HoustonPerson

02-22-10, 10:03 AM

mabuttra

02-22-10, 11:23 AM

Mark and WS65711

Really only attempting to find out if TVG2 has any significance and if it is related to the lack of HostChannel sets in Houston. At this point I can only assume not.

I looked at PID Usage charts from Rabbit Ears Info for Houston, Kansas City, and New Orleans (2 stations there). Essentially they all show the same thing, as far as I can tell. TVG1 is 0x0111 and TVG2 is 0x0112. The older 0x0110 is teletext or sum-such, maybe the el-cheap-o program information shown on most displays. I have no idea. TVG3 is not listed anywhere on Rabbit Ears Info for those three cities, unless I missed them? So why there is a TVG3 on the info screens to newer devices like the Mit’s I have no idea; but alas it is disabled anyway. This must like the Twilight Zone.

I'm in Wichita, not Kansas City (just like you are in Houston not Dallas). Wichita (KWCH) has no TSReader information which is why I couldn't follow what you were wanting me to look at. It does show those PIDs as 0x111 in those cities, where as the ATSC slicer screen on mine shows the PID for TVG1 to be 0x113. Anyone else's report this PID?

Change Subject: Yesterday it appears TVGOS died in Houston again. The “ads” evaporated and lots of No Listings and No Titles. When going to the ATSC Slicer page several times during the day, it showed no activity for station 11-1 – but station 11-2 always showed activity. All very strange.

This morning all seems back to normal – whatever that is!

It is pretty easy to get the ATSC slicer screen to not show live data when the data is actually there. If you don't see activity on the ATSC slicer screen you can usually exit the 753 menu, and then go back into it, and it will be there, although some people have to run the G* Test before they see activitiy on that screen. I have found that if I tune to my host channel from another channel, and immediately press the TV Guide button (without waiting for the channel's info box to come up), that usually results in no ATSC slicer data.

Mark

WS65711

02-22-10, 01:25 PM

TVG1 & TVG2 have apparently been around since 2003, and TVG3 since 2007. Anyone wanna try to email one of these guys?
http://www.smpte-ra.org/mpegreg/mpegreg.html

hate2sleep

02-22-10, 02:17 PM

Simple: don't do anything until you lose something you want. How long will it take you to get that CC anyhow? Be prepared to rescan the channels if you find things missing. For me, digital cable channels don't show up on the Sony unless you add the card. That's why I keep a small grid, but make large use of the "favorites" functions. All my recording is manual (and digital).

My cable company is also moving to all digital. They said that last year. They sent me a DTA last year. Still waiting. I'm patient.

Big question: what version Sony firmware are you using? Thanks
Hi Joe- Thanks for the information. I have the latest firmware sent to me by sony. It took a while to get my TVGOs but it is now working fine. Sorry for the dumb questions but I love my Sony and want to use it to its fullest potential- YET I don't want to turn it into a brick! That is why I wanted to know what 'the 'experts' would do in my place. sooooo...what would you do?

Would I lose my OTA digital if I use the card?
Would I get the new cable digital channels in TVGOS?
From what I understand you to say, I would get the up-shifted channels on the sony but would not be aboe to program them to record-only manually record.

Thanks!

HoustonPerson

02-22-10, 02:30 PM

Yep, I had entered the ATSC Slicer several times yesterday – it always showed no data. Change to 11-2 and got data coming in.

Today both 11-1 and 11-2 have data coming in – tons for 11-1

Thanks WS for the chart link. Sort of get the impression TVG3 has become dormant. Maybe Rovi would use for their yet to be released Program Guide System next year?

Mark perhaps someone has a TS Reader to borrow in Wichita or your friend at KWCH may be able to get the stations PID Usage lists? Anyway, don’t rock the boat, because it works there!

The general consensus is probably correct: The Sony DVR only requires the TVG1 portion.

JoeKustra

02-22-10, 10:52 PM

Hi Joe- Thanks for the information. I have the latest firmware sent to me by sony. It took a while to get my TVGOs but it is now working fine. Sorry for the dumb questions but I love my Sony and want to use it to its fullest potential- YET I don't want to turn it into a brick! That is why I wanted to know what 'the 'experts' would do in my place. sooooo...what would you do?

Would I lose my OTA digital if I use the card?
Would I get the new cable digital channels in TVGOS?
From what I understand you to say, I would get the up-shifted channels on the sony but would not be aboe to program them to record-only manually record.

Thanks!

You should not lose your OTA if you add their card.
Will you get the new cable digital channels "with the Guide" - maybe if all works as it should. Does you local cable feed have a web site? If so, check out the channel numbers there.

If the cable card works you should have channels that are flagged as "Ant" and those flagged as "Cable". Those are Sony labels, not from the Guide which should show you the OTA as xx.x or xx-x, and the cable as xxx. Remember, I don't use a card, so this is just an educated guess. You can search this thread for "cable card" and read those posts. That should reduce your effort to understand this box. A lot is going to depend on your host channel data, which is possibly a mystery to you now. [no offense intended]

Sony firmware version: on the remote, hit MENU, then SCREEN MODE, then 9,0,1,2. Now, GO DOWN to TV Guide. Go right once. What's the Build Version? HIT EXIT after you see it. DO NOT HIT SELECT!!!!!

You can learn a lot by reading about the unit from SpiffSpace. See post #1. And I don't think you can do anything to make it a "brick" except throwing it out the window. You can, of course, make it a real PITA to use if the clock goes away due to losing your host feed. I have VHS tapes as a backup to let me set the clock and get a grid. And I have three 250 units. Have you calculated what it's going to cost for you to rent the card, and get digital HD service?