WS65711

Is that report on two Sony DVR's? or is one on the Mit's TV?


and/or is the PID of 0x111 and 0x112 coming from a TVGOS antenna source? and the PID of 0x844 and 0x845 coming from a cable source?

These values came from two of my Sony HDD500's. Remember from the picture I posted a few days ago, the Mits TV shows "None" as the values for TVG1-PID and TVG2-PID, and "Disabled" for TVG3-PID.

My three HDD500's are all connected to Cable (CableCard) as well as OTA antenna. I don't know where the PID values are coming from. :confused:


Update: 2/23/10 @ 7:50pm --- Both of the units I checked last night now indicate "None" as the value for both TVG1 PID and TVG2 PID.

You should not lose your OTA if you add their card.
Will you get the new cable digital channels "with the Guide" - maybe if all works as it should. Does you local cable feed have a web site? If so, check out the channel numbers there.

If the cable card works you should have channels that are flagged as "Ant" and those flagged as "Cable". Those are Sony labels, not from the Guide which should show you the OTA as xx.x or xx-x, and the cable as xxx. Remember, I don't use a card, so this is just an educated guess. You can search this thread for "cable card" and read those posts. That should reduce your effort to understand this box. A lot is going to depend on your host channel data, which is possibly a mystery to you now. [no offense intended]

Sony firmware version: on the remote, hit MENU, then SCREEN MODE, then 9,0,1,2. Now, GO DOWN to TV Guide. Go right once. What's the Build Version? HIT EXIT after you see it. DO NOT HIT SELECT!!!!!

You can learn a lot by reading about the unit from SpiffSpace. See post #1. And I don't think you can do anything to make it a "brick" except throwing it out the window. You can, of course, make it a real PITA to use if the clock goes away due to losing your host feed. I have VHS tapes as a backup to let me set the clock and get a grid. And I have three 250 units. Have you calculated what it's going to cost for you to rent the card, and get digital HD service?
thanks again Joe- I currently get the digital OTA channels as well as the cable channels. The cable channels are listed on the TVGOs grid but when COMCAST shifts ch14-70 to digital I doubt they will show up. I show the digital OTA channels AND I can tune into the 'digital-simulcast' of the main network channels that come in around 53.6 or so.

COMCAST told me that there is no charge for the cable card but there is a $29 service charge. They also said I would have to take the unit in to 'register' it with them and make sure it would work. I may just wait until they make the change as you suggest. If anyone else has experienced this shuffle to DIGITAL CHANNELS, I would love to hear how it worked out for you and what you did with it.

thanks again Joe- I currently get the digital OTA channels as well as the cable channels. The cable channels are listed on the TVGOs grid but when COMCAST shifts ch14-70 to digital I doubt they will show up. I show the digital OTA channels AND I can tune into the 'digital-simulcast' of the main network channels that come in around 53.6 or so.

COMCAST told me that there is no charge for the cable card but there is a $29 service charge. They also said I would have to take the unit in to 'register' it with them and make sure it would work. I may just wait until they make the change as you suggest. If anyone else has experienced this shuffle to DIGITAL CHANNELS, I would love to hear how it worked out for you and what you did with it.

Smart move. I still would like to know what firmware version you are running. It's nice your TV doesn't have a cable card too. Taking that in to get registered wouldn't be so good. Perhaps you could check the firmware version before they take your unit, since they might perform a "factory restore" which will probably erase the Sony update.

Oh yeah, what is your host channel now? It's sort of important.

I have parts of my guide back and my clock is right. It must have happened some time this afternoon, because I didn't leave home until 11:00 am and my clock was wrong.

thanks again Joe- I currently get the digital OTA channels as well as the cable channels. The cable channels are listed on the TVGOs grid but when COMCAST shifts ch14-70 to digital I doubt they will show up. I show the digital OTA channels AND I can tune into the 'digital-simulcast' of the main network channels that come in around 53.6 or so.

If anyone else has experienced this shuffle to DIGITAL CHANNELS, I would love to hear how it worked out for you and what you did with it.

I'm feeling chatty at the moment. My cable feed (secv.com) once upon a time sent 70 analog channels. They then added ABC,NBC,CBS,Fox,PBS and CW in clear QAM. All basic cable stuff, like USA & TNT were scrambled. On one clear sunny day they did a massive shuffle and gave up the scramble. This was before the DTV event. They still wanted me to buy a box for my TV and didn't want to activate a card for my Sony (that would be way beyond their technical ability). I found that the digital basic cable channels (SD) were on the Sony DVR with the same channel number as my Sony TV (USA is 27.6206). They even offered me a free 90 day trial of their converter box so that I could see how great it was to get movies on-demand. Yet they let me watch though a box that had only an RF 480i ouput. Not the greatest marketing move, but I gained an additional cable line since it was "policy". My fiber stops about a mile away. About this time, another feed (secable.com) supplied all the basic cable channels to nearby towns unscrambled and in HD.

As you, I should still receive the first 21 or so 'local' channels in analog for a while. My supplier offers a $9.99 feed of those channels. Check my location: it's a poor area in the middle of nowhere. I think there are over 10 cable companies within 50 miles. Seriously. I'm very lucky, since my TVGOS host channel is C-SPAN on channel 15. No OTA problems there. After many rescans of channels I know that my grid and listings display the analog channels. What 'would' be my digital OTA channels are shown on the Sony TV Guide grid, but as disabled. Even those (digital) that are not disabled are scrambled. There are over 400 entries and I activate only about 40 in the listings. I see what it would look like IF I had a cable card, but I don't. I believe that your TV Guide shows you what it thinks would be your channels if you had a card and/or a really super antenna. I keep track of the 70 or so digital channel numbers with a high-tech piece of paper. Channels do change, like when they added VS and the baseball channels last summer. They just moved one ABC channel and have added RTV on a time share with the Philly ABC feed late at night. One unlucky thing for me is my 'local' CBS channel, 40 miles away, does not carry TVGOS. My closest CBS TVGOS channel is 50 miles SW and I still haven't been able to receive it OTA. But I'm not going to give up. I don't like having just one source if I can have two. I still can not update to the latest Sony firmware because it blocks recording of my digital channels. On March 8 I expect to record 11 programs, 6 in HD. I shudder to think what that would cost using cable company supplied equipment. I'll be at work.

So you see, to get the most from the Sony DHG-HDD250 you have to work at it. Like any worthwhile relationship I guess. Keep us posted on how that testing goes by Comcast.

These values came from two of my Sony HDD500's. Remember from the picture I posted a few days ago, the Mits TV shows "None" as the values for TVG1-PID and TVG2-PID, and "Disabled" for TVG3-PID.

My three HDD500's are all connected to Cable (CableCard) as well as OTA antenna. I don't know where the PID values are coming from. :confused:


Update: 2/23/10 @ 7:50pm --- Both of the units I checked last night now indicate "None" as the value for both TVG1 PID and TVG2 PID.


Remember "none" is normal if you are not tuned to the digital host for TVGOS. First "tune" to the TVGOS host (which ever it is for OTA and/or cable), then enter the screen. You may have to enter and exit the screen a couple of times to make data on that screen to show up.

Remember "none" is normal if you are not tuned to the digital host for TVGOS. First "tune" to the TVGOS host (which ever it is for OTA and/or cable), then enter the screen. You may have to enter and exit the screen a couple of times to make data on that screen to show up.

:confused::confused::confused:
Neither of these two DVR's currently has a HostChan displayed. I was tuned to CBS (CableCard 704) which is one of my two potential host channels. This is the same channel that I was tuned to the day before, when the previous TVGx PID values were noted.

Do we know what PID is in relation to TVGOS? In my line of work, PID is "proportional–integral–derivative".

The THIRD VBIState “cycle” occurred within this NumSearch “3”
And
HostSUFlag has only one dog leg to go (dog leg is highly evolved technical term applicable only to the DHG-HDD)
And
All ads have been cleared out
And
Day 8 is 100% No Listings
And
Late today the next NumSearch will begin


Will ads and listings return?
Will HostChannel set?
Will both of the above occur within NumSearch “3”?

If all three are true, I win the Lottery!

No ads or day 8 listings. Packets are down to 50/minute. Still getting updates to clock but not as often. I saw the packets drop yesterday afternoon. Ads were 3 days old yesterday so this was no shock.

I was missing day 8 listings on Monday evening, but yesterday evening I had a full 8 days of complete listings. :p

No ads or day 8 listings. Packets are down to 50/minute. Still getting updates to clock but not as often. I saw the packets drop yesterday afternoon. Ads were 3 days old yesterday so this was no shock.
Now you got that song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl3vxEudif8) stuck in my head. ;)

:confused::confused::confused:
Neither of these two DVR's currently has a HostChan displayed. I was tuned to CBS (CableCard 704) which is one of my two potential host channels. This is the same channel that I was tuned to the day before, when the previous TVGx PID values were noted.

Do we know what PID is in relation to TVGOS? In my line of work, PID is "proportional–integral–derivative".

PID is an ATSC term. It stands for packet ID. Basically each stream of data (video, audio, data, etc.) in the ATSC signal is tagged with a unique PID, so that the receiving device knows where to send the data to for processing. Read this (http://frequal.com:8080/atsc/index.html) for more information.

Mark

Now you got that song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl3vxEudif8) stuck in my head. ;)

I could state the "ch" meant channels. I didn't. It's like waves on a beach. They roll across the country at different times. Possibly this is another Olympics adjustment.

PID is an ATSC term. It stands for packet ID. Basically each stream of data (video, audio, data, etc.) in the ATSC signal is tagged with a unique PID, so that the receiving device knows where to send the data to for processing. Read this (http://frequal.com:8080/atsc/index.html) for more information.


After reading more about these PIDs, I realize now that there is only one stream of TVG1 data in the ATSC signal. Up until now I thought the TVGOS data was somehow embedded in the video data stream, but it isn't. In other words tuning to a different sub-channel does not result in the DVR receiving a different TVGOS stream. Changing to a different sub-channel just causes the tuner to select a different audio, and video stream. I should have known this, since I have always been able to tune to RF channel 19, and, although it has "No Signal", the ATSC slicer screen still shows activity.

On another subject...
Here (http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/prod_development/revisions/downloads/television/Rovi_DAM_V1.1.pdf) is an interesting ROVI document I ran across. It describes how to test TVGOS devices for energy star compliancy. The test device was a TV. What is interesting is, if I am reading it right, when the TVGOS device is in "build grid" mode (referred to as EPG Setup State mode), it actually consumes more power, than when it has a grid (referred to as EPG Steady state mode). The Sony may not behave this way, since I don't believe it is energy star compliant, but I could be wrong.

Mark

After reading more about these PIDs, I realize now that there is only one stream of TVG1 data in the ATSC signal. Up until now I thought the TVGOS data was somehow embedded in the video data stream, but it isn't. In other words tuning to a different sub-channel does not result in the DVR receiving a different TVGOS stream. Changing to a different sub-channel just causes the tuner to select a different audio, and video stream. I should have known this, since I have always been able to tune to RF channel 19, and, although it has "No Signal", the ATSC slicer screen still shows activity.

On another subject...
Here (http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/prod_development/revisions/downloads/television/Rovi_DAM_V1.1.pdf) is an interesting ROVI document I ran across. It describes how to test TVGOS devices for energy star compliancy. The test device was a TV. What is interesting is, if I am reading it right, when the TVGOS device is in "build grid" mode (referred to as EPG Setup State mode), it actually consumes more power, than when it has a grid (referred to as EPG Steady state mode). The Sony may not behave this way, since I don't believe it is energy star compliant, but I could be wrong.

Mark


Part 1
Explains why ATSC Slicer reports data coming in while on 11-2. But still does not explain while at the same time 11-1 will not show data coming in, even when accessing the ATSC Slicer Screen several times (exit and re-enter) in a row. Since RF 11 is RF 11 (regardless of ?-1 ?-2 etc) it is still the same RF 11; also explains why I can see 11-0 11-1 and 11-2 for the Clock Set Channel - they are the same.


part II
Do original firmware version .09 and above come with extra wiring for cable card (more power). and that is why .05 "originals" have difficultly making a Grid?


Very nice find - thanks for posting.

FYI, KMOV in St. Louis turned the TVGOS data feed back on yesterday afternoon and I've confirmed that one of my two Sony DVR's has program listings again. Following is the update from the KMOV broadcast engineer from Wednesday, 2/4 at 11:20 CST:

************************
We put the TV Guide encoder back on line yesterday afternoon. We are currently watching to make sure it does not cause problems.
************************
I may have some work to do on my second Sony DVR because I reset the TVGOS, which wiped out the TV listing grid, before I knew there was a problem with the KMOV TVGOS feed. I have the new version of firmware now, so I'm hopeful that it will start working on its own now that KMOV has turned the TVGOS data back on.

Lance

Part 1
Explains why ATSC Slicer reports data coming in while on 11-2. But still does not explain while at the same time 11-1 will not show data coming in, even when accessing the ATSC Slicer Screen several times (exit and re-enter) in a row. Since RF 11 is RF 11 (regardless of ?-1 ?-2 etc) it is still the same RF 11; also explains why I can see 11-0 11-1 and 11-2 for the Clock Set Channel - they are the same.


I have seen that it is pretty easy to trip up the DVR, so it isn't reporting ATSC slicer data that is really there. The only way, that I know of, to guarantee that the ATSC slicer will show data, is to run the G* Test before going to the ATSC slicer screen (as others have reported that they have to do).

Mark

FYI, KMOV in St. Louis turned the TVGOS data feed back on yesterday afternoon and I've confirmed that one of my two Sony DVR's has program listings again. Following is the update from the KMOV broadcast engineer from Wednesday, 2/4 at 11:20 CST:

************************
We put the TV Guide encoder back on line yesterday afternoon. We are currently watching to make sure it does not cause problems.
************************


That is great news.


I may have some work to do on my second Sony DVR because I reset the TVGOS, which wiped out the TV listing grid, before I knew there was a problem with the KMOV TVGOS feed. I have the new version of firmware now, so I'm hopeful that it will start working on its own now that KMOV has turned the TVGOS data back on.


It should come back on its own, but it may take a few days.

Mark

I have seen that it is pretty easy to trip up the DVR, so it isn't reporting ATSC slicer data that is really there. The only way, that I know of, to guarantee that the ATSC slicer will show data, is to run the G* Test before going to the ATSC slicer screen (as others have reported that they have to do).

Mark

I just check a while ago. Both 11-1 and 11-2 show ATSC data coming (the same data), every time they are viewed now. Yesterday only 11-2 did.

All the screens can at times be flakey


Still zero ads and zero listings for day 8. The next NumSearch is not too far away it should re-boot and catch fire this time LOL

There realy was a ton of info in the link you posted today. Sort of give me the following impression. A legacy 0x110 is still there but in digital form for devices like Artec to turn into analogue etc. But I get the impression that both DataPipe 1 and 2 (TVG1 and TVG2), are required for a digital TVGOS device. Since it is not mentioned that would imply TVG3 is not used at all in any device, at least not at this time.

I'm feeling chatty at the moment. My cable feed (secv.com) once upon a time sent 70 analog channels. They then added ABC,NBC,CBS,Fox,PBS and CW in clear QAM. All basic cable stuff, like USA & TNT were scrambled. On one clear sunny day they did a massive shuffle and gave up the scramble. This was before the DTV event. They still wanted me to buy a box for my TV and didn't want to activate a card for my Sony (that would be way beyond their technical ability). I found that the digital basic cable channels (SD) were on the Sony DVR with the same channel number as my Sony TV (USA is 27.6206). They even offered me a free 90 day trial of their converter box so that I could see how great it was to get movies on-demand. Yet they let me watch though a box that had only an RF 480i ouput. Not the greatest marketing move, but I gained an additional cable line since it was "policy". My fiber stops about a mile away. About this time, another feed (secable.com) supplied all the basic cable channels to nearby towns unscrambled and in HD.

As you, I should still receive the first 21 or so 'local' channels in analog for a while. My supplier offers a $9.99 feed of those channels. Check my location: it's a poor area in the middle of nowhere. I think there are over 10 cable companies within 50 miles. Seriously. I'm very lucky, since my TVGOS host channel is C-SPAN on channel 15. No OTA problems there. After many rescans of channels I know that my grid and listings display the analog channels. What 'would' be my digital OTA channels are shown on the Sony TV Guide grid, but as disabled. Even those (digital) that are not disabled are scrambled. There are over 400 entries and I activate only about 40 in the listings. I see what it would look like IF I had a cable card, but I don't. I believe that your TV Guide shows you what it thinks would be your channels if you had a card and/or a really super antenna. I keep track of the 70 or so digital channel numbers with a high-tech piece of paper. Channels do change, like when they added VS and the baseball channels last summer. They just moved one ABC channel and have added RTV on a time share with the Philly ABC feed late at night. One unlucky thing for me is my 'local' CBS channel, 40 miles away, does not carry TVGOS. My closest CBS TVGOS channel is 50 miles SW and I still haven't been able to receive it OTA. But I'm not going to give up. I don't like having just one source if I can have two. I still can not update to the latest Sony firmware because it blocks recording of my digital channels. On March 8 I expect to record 11 programs, 6 in HD. I shudder to think what that would cost using cable company supplied equipment. I'll be at work.

So you see, to get the most from the Sony DHG-HDD250 you have to work at it. Like any worthwhile relationship I guess. Keep us posted on how that testing goes by Comcast.
Joe- Sorry for the delay in replying- been pretty busy with PC issues and fixing stuff the wife breaks! Anyway, I'm pretty much stupid about most of the stuff that is discussed here. I did manage to flash the firmware that was offered on the sony website but it didn't do anything to get back my grid when the analog channels went away. Sony was nice enough to sned me a thumb drive with what appeared to be the same build to try.... THE SONY DIDNT RECOGNIZED THE DRIVE !! I had to transfer it to my 512mb drive to flash it! HA! Anyway it took about a week or so for listings to appear but I have a full grid now.

I did the 9-0-1-2 shortcut and it reported the build is 01 ??? I thought the firmware was something like 1.2.21? When I go to SYSTEM tab it show the software is 1.2.21.

I am really not sure of my host channel NUMBER... I do know that the local PBS channel is continuing to supply it on digital OTA but they have 4 subchannels. Comcast is not sending on cable.

If I understand what you are saying- you can get the channels without a cable box and without a card? I guess I will just wait and see what I end up with. In the mean time I will visit COMCAST and try to talk to someone in the know.

Thanks again! Wish I had studied electronics in college instead of BUDWEISER!

.............. If I understand what you are saying- you can get the channels without a cable box and without a card? I guess I will just wait and see what I end up with. In the mean time I will visit COMCAST and try to talk to someone in the know.


Comcast will tell you that you can't get any HD channels without their box. That is what they are trained to say. In reality, you will probably be able to get at least your local HD broadcast channels, and possibly some other HD channels as well. I had been getting about 24 HD channels via QAM until this past September, including all of my HD locals plus many others including History Channel, Discovery, ESPN, HDnet, Starz, etc. But then my provider (Charter) began to encrypt all but the locals. My understanding is that this has been occurring all over the country, by most cable providers. So now I have 4 CableCards (three in HDD500's and one in a TV). The one in the TV has worked fine, but the cards have caused some issues with the DVR's that I am still learning to live with. :o

Joe- Sorry for the delay in replying- been pretty busy with PC issues and fixing stuff the wife breaks! Anyway, I'm pretty much stupid about most of the stuff that is discussed here. I did manage to flash the firmware that was offered on the sony website but it didn't do anything to get back my grid when the analog channels went away. Sony was nice enough to sned me a thumb drive with what appeared to be the same build to try.... THE SONY DIDNT RECOGNIZED THE DRIVE !! I had to transfer it to my 512mb drive to flash it! HA! Anyway it took about a week or so for listings to appear but I have a full grid now.

I did the 9-0-1-2 shortcut and it reported the build is 01 ??? I thought the firmware was something like 1.2.21? When I go to SYSTEM tab it show the software is 1.2.21.

I am really not sure of my host channel NUMBER... I do know that the local PBS channel is continuing to supply it on digital OTA but they have 4 subchannels. Comcast is not sending on cable.

If I understand what you are saying- you can get the channels without a cable box and without a card? I guess I will just wait and see what I end up with. In the mean time I will visit COMCAST and try to talk to someone in the know.

Thanks again! Wish I had studied electronics in college instead of BUDWEISER!

Having 1.2.21 means you have the latest firmware. That means you can rebuild your grid when your host channel is digital. For a condensed yet comprehensive supply of information, visit:

http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php

You need a cable card to allow you to select a digital cable program on your TV Guide and watch or record it. I can't do that. All my recording is manual, like with a VCR. Your problems have little to do with electronics. You can find your host channel with the 753159852 display. Best of luck finding someone at Comcast "in the know". If you find the need, tell them it's like a Tivo.

On your remote, have you done: Menu - Preferences - CH +/- List - Edit CH +/- List? Use the remote Channel Down (page) to go up the list. I'd bet there are channel numbers there that you don't see on your TV Guide grid. Some of those are your current digital cable channels. Have fun.

I just check a while ago. Both 11-1 and 11-2 show ATSC data coming (the same data), every time they are viewed now. Yesterday only 11-2 did.

Still zero ads and zero listings for day 8. The next NumSearch is not too far away it should re-boot and catch fire this time LOL.

My ads and day 8 are back. I still have no listings for day 7 though.

Comcast will tell you that you can't get any HD channels without their box. That is what they are trained to say. In reality, you will probably be able to get at least your local HD broadcast channels, and possibly some other HD channels as well. I had been getting about 24 HD channels via QAM until this past September, including all of my HD locals plus many others including History Channel, Discovery, ESPN, HDnet, Starz, etc. But then my provider (Charter) began to encrypt all but the locals. My understanding is that this has been occurring all over the country, by most cable providers. So now I have 4 CableCards (three in HDD500's and one in a TV). The one in the TV has worked fine, but the cards have caused some issues with the DVR's that I am still learning to live with. :o
Thanks for the info... what brand of card is causing your problems?

Thanks for the info... what brand of card is causing your problems?

The cards are Motorola M-Cards. Some of the problems I've had since October (when I had the cards installed) include...... Unexplained reboot/reset/gridloss, very slow (or no) response to remote, lockups, problems while trying to watch a recorded show while recording another.

I think the reboot/reset/gridloss is more related to Charter sending some "signal" to the cards, rather than to the cards themselves. Thankfully this is happening less frequently now than it did in the first month or two. And when I get a new Grid with the CableCard installed, there are hundreds of channels turned "On". It's a PITA to go turn most of them all "off" again. I'm still trying to find the best way to avoid the lockups. It seems that patience is a virtue...... if you press a button and nothing happens... then just WAIT. Don't press any more buttons. The DVR will respond (maybe) when it's good and ready . . . :rolleyes:

Hello everyone! I love this forum. I have tried to read up on my newly acquired Sony HDD250 but there is WAY TOO MUCH to read to get up to speed.

If anyone can forward some links to help me get the most needed advice on getting my DVR up2speed and optimized, I would appreciate it!.

I use COMCAST basic cable- no cable card, no digital yet other than local OTA stations and a few free QUAM channels. I use the analog PBS staion for TVGUIDE (which I DO NOT LIKE). I am somewhat dissapointed with this dinosaur programing guide. I have briefly read about some other options but it is not clear to me what the alternatives are. I have had the unit for about 2weeks and I really like it. I have not had any real issues other than the programing guide.

So if anyone knows of things a newby should know about (like HOW will I get programing when everything is digital!) I would appreciate the info.

Thanks!

That was two years ago. Now you are going to pay to keep that dinosaur happy. I guess things have changed.

My ads and day 8 are back. I still have no listings for day 7 though.

Rovi is making adjustments to Houston TVGOS again - anyway full 8 day listings came back late this afternoon, but still no ads. And the HostChannel still has not set.

In less than 24 hours the "second" set (if not more) of VBIState has begun, and a moderately high HostSUFlag.

Both during this NumSearch 4 and the previous NumSearch 3, one of the major significant changes is the long amount of time spent (a few hours) in each VBIState; compared to zooming through them all is just a few short minutes (or seconds). Of course the screens could be mis-reporting as well.

About a year ago I gave up on Sony DVRs and bought a Tivo HD with an external drive. The thing has been flawless. Soon I will be paying for another 1 year subscription to Tivo.

I highly recommend abandoning the quest to avoid stinky fees.

I'm not a stockholder of Tivo. The stock has moved from about 6 to 11 and back again for many years. I guess they are bad businessmen, but the product is wonderful.

Dave

About a year ago I gave up on Sony DVRs and bought a Tivo HD with an external drive. The thing has been flawless. Soon I will be paying for another 1 year subscription to Tivo.

I highly recommend abandoning the quest to avoid stinky fees.

I'm not a stockholder of Tivo. The stock has moved from about 6 to 11 and back again for many years. I guess they are bad businessmen, but the product is wonderful.

Dave

Too bad they can't make a profit. It might be all the patents they are trying to protect. They have become almost a generic term, like Kleenex, Scotch Tape or Xerox. Someday I may go the Tivo route, but for now I'll keep having fun with the Sony. Looking back, their stock was $57 when Sirius was $65 and XM was $55. The good old days.

It's not the fees that stop me. It's the flexibility I have with basic cable. When they screw with that, I'll have to decide what route to take.

Having 1.2.21 means you have the latest firmware. That means you can rebuild your grid when your host channel is digital. For a condensed yet comprehensive supply of information, visit:

http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php

You need a cable card to allow you to select a digital cable program on your TV Guide and watch or record it. I can't do that. All my recording is manual, like with a VCR. Your problems have little to do with electronics. You can find your host channel with the 753159852 display. Best of luck finding someone at Comcast "in the know". If you find the need, tell them it's like a Tivo.

On your remote, have you done: Menu - Preferences - CH +/- List - Edit CH +/- List? Use the remote Channel Down (page) to go up the list. I'd bet there are channel numbers there that you don't see on your TV Guide grid. Some of those are your current digital cable channels. Have fun.
Joe- I found out how to get the host info using 753159852. This is what was listed:
SECTION SYSTEM-SYSTEM INFO
HostState 0x80
HostID 0x66
Host Chan 1:0-3
VBI Chan 1:53-1
OTA Lineup 0xAACE

(next page)
ID:61872-410VT21-7V08V/FFFFFFFF12345678
08.1.71/08.06.44/00.00.00/0000012C/64/0000

ETC.........

Not sure how to decode this. I believe my Host Channel is PBS 39-1 digital OTA.
What can you tell me about this?

Thanks!
BTW- You right about finding anyone who could find their *ss in a snow storm at COMCAST. At least when I called the 1-800-comast this time I got thru in only 36 minutes!

Regards!

Joe- I found out how to get the host info using 753159852. This is what was listed:
SECTION SYSTEM-SYSTEM INFO
HostState 0x80
HostID 0x66
Host Chan 1:0-3
VBI Chan 1:53-1
OTA Lineup 0xAACE

(next page)
ID:61872-410VT21-7V08V/FFFFFFFF12345678
08.1.71/08.06.44/00.00.00/0000012C/64/0000

ETC.........

Not sure how to decode this. I believe my Host Channel is PBS 39-1 digital OTA.
What can you tell me about this?

Thanks!
BTW- You right about finding anyone who could find their *ss in a snow storm at COMCAST. At least when I called the 1-800-comast this time I got thru in only 36 minutes!

Regards!

Your host is analog cable channel 3.
You were watching cable channel 53.1 when you ran the test.

Probably in Section Other-Clocks2, your ClockSetChan is also 1:0-3. (Cable WFWA)

Your host is analog cable channel 3.
You were watching cable channel 53.1 when you ran the test.

Probably in Section Other-Clocks2, your ClockSetChan is also 1:0-3. (Cable WFWA)
STRANGE- I thought for sure that I was getting the digital OTA PBS (ch39-1) TVGOS. Cable ch3 is the same PBS channel. I can't believe that COMCAST is passing thru the data and I can't get it OTA.

So if I disconnect the cable my grid/updates will disappear... or my unit will try to find the OTA signal...assuming they are broadcasting it?

So if I disconnect the cable my grid/updates will disappear... or my unit will try to find the OTA signal...assuming they are broadcasting it?

Your Grid will remain (until some other circumstance causes it to be lost) but the updates to the Listings will cease, unless there is a TVGOS host station available to you OTA. Your "displayed" host station will remain as it currently is however, until a reset or power outage causes it to be lost. Then your DVR will search for a new OTA host.

STRANGE- I thought for sure that I was getting the digital OTA PBS (ch39-1) TVGOS. Cable ch3 is the same PBS channel. I can't believe that COMCAST is passing thru the data and I can't get it OTA.

So if I disconnect the cable my grid/updates will disappear... or my unit will try to find the OTA signal...assuming they are broadcasting it?

Your OTA PBS station does send out the data, but your DVR (as mine also does) prefers the analog data that COMCAST is converting from the PBS station. If you ever decide to drop COMCAST, you should be able to get the data OTA.

Mark

STRANGE- I thought for sure that I was getting the digital OTA PBS (ch39-1) TVGOS. Cable ch3 is the same PBS channel. I can't believe that COMCAST is passing thru the data and I can't get it OTA.

So if I disconnect the cable my grid/updates will disappear... or my unit will try to find the OTA signal...assuming they are broadcasting it?

What they said.

So, why are you getting a cable card again?

And it's easy to test the OTA issue. Just pull your cable wire, do a full factory restore, add back the .21 firmware update, do a full antenna scan then wait. Simple. You can always plug the cable back in afterwards if things don't work out right after a week or two. Keep us posted.

What they said.

So, why are you getting a cable card again?

And it's easy to test the OTA issue. Just pull your cable wire, do a full factory restore, add back the .21 firmware update, do a full antenna scan then wait. Simple. You can always plug the cable back in afterwards if things don't work out right after a week or two. Keep us posted.
Well....that is what I've been asking. What will it get me ? >> Will it let me view and RECORD the new digital channels that are scrambled? - I ASSUME ....but I'm not sure.

I just visited comcast and picked up my 'kit' for the digital conversion. As I said, they are switching analog channels to digital. BUT- the tech online AND the letter I got, indicated that only channels 14-70 were going away as analog ...up to digital. The kit comes with the master cable box which in esssence converts me to the digital starter package (ONLY DIGITAL SIGNAL WILL COME THRU). The other box (and this confuses me!) is for the second TV (line to DVR??) and it remains (or re-converts??) analog...according to the person at the comcast location. She also told me that if I enroll in the TRIPLEPLAY plan, I get only the digital and the analog box goes away.... NO more analog. Crazy. I will add a splitter to feed the TV from the digital box and hold back the other box to see what I get on the SONY HDD250 as it is connected now. I may not see a change at all -who knows.

Well....that is what I've been asking. What will it get me ? >> Will it let me view and RECORD the new digital channels that are scrambled? - I ASSUME ....but I'm not sure.

I just visited comcast and picked up my 'kit' for the digital conversion. As I said, they are switching analog channels to digital. BUT- the tech online AND the letter I got, indicated that only channels 14-70 were going away as analog ...up to digital. The kit comes with the master cable box which in esssence converts me to the digital starter package (ONLY DIGITAL SIGNAL WILL COME THRU). The other box (and this confuses me!) is for the second TV (line to DVR??) and it remains (or re-converts??) analog...according to the person at the comcast location. She also told me that if I enroll in the TRIPLEPLAY plan, I get only the digital and the analog box goes away.... NO more analog. Crazy. I will add a splitter to feed the TV from the digital box and hold back the other box to see what I get on the SONY HDD250 as it is connected now. I may not see a change at all -who knows.

[The Shadow Knows] Sounds like fun. You should be busy for a while. Just one clarification. Scrambled is what they do to channels you need to pay extra to receive. Those are usually channels like HBO or ShowTime. But they may require you to use their box because they want more money for you to watch digital basic cable. Sometimes that box is free. I have one but have never used it. See, my cable company duplicated all those analog channels as digital, but still haven't deleted the old ones. I can receive and record all the clear QAM channels (SD/HD) by tuning to the channel and using the red record button on the remote, then setting the time, date & frequency. Sure, I could use the guide to record the same analog stations (TNT, A&E, etc.), but I'd rather get 480i, plus stereo (or 5.1/HD), so I choose to do it manually.

[The Shadow Knows] Sounds like fun. You should be busy for a while. Just one clarification. Scrambled is what they do to channels you need to pay extra to receive. Those are usually channels like HBO or ShowTime. But they may require you to use their box because they want more money for you to watch digital basic cable. Sometimes that box is free. I have one but have never used it. See, my cable company duplicated all those analog channels as digital, but still haven't deleted the old ones. I can receive and record all the clear QAM channels (SD/HD) by tuning to the channel and using the red record button on the remote, then setting the time, date & frequency. Sure, I could use the guide to record the same analog stations (TNT, A&E, etc.), but I'd rather get 480i, plus stereo (or 5.1/HD), so I choose to do it manually.
That is my situation exactly right now. What I don't know is if the duplicated channels (analog ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX,PBS, ESPN ) in DIGITAL (around 53.1-80.5) will remain where they are (these are viewable and recordable on the SONY) or if they will shift them all so that the only way I can access them is with their digital cable box. The literature isnt very clear and the TECHs online never give a straight answer. All of this is supposed to happen March 1st so I think I will sit back and wait to see what happens.

SF Bay area, south bay. About 10 days ago I had a power outage that stopped my 250 mid-recording. After power up, I found I had lost the gird, the first time this has happened with no analog source. (Up to then I had been happily getting listings with a blank host, a normal condition for me.) From reading here, I knew I was in trouble, but decided to wait for a while just to see what would happen. I recovered the clock right away, from my digital CBS source (either cable 5.1 or OTA 5.1, it keeps switching), but the channel grid was empty (no data) and of course so were the listings. Not really wanting to get a TVGOS enabled converter, at least not right away, I survived with manual recordings and continued waiting.

To my surprise this morning I turned on my Sony and had a grid! Interestingly my host shows 0:29-0 (29 is the OTA RF channel for my CBS digital station). It's displaying like it was an OTA analog, but I guarantee it's not. Anyway, I'm not going to rock the boat, I will wait a couple of days and then setup my channels like I had them before.

One other note, we just got word in the south bay that by April 15 all expanded basic channels will be encrypted, but since I have a separate Comcast HD DVR, I just use the Sony for recordings OTA channels not on cable. Maybe later I will attempt the CableCard route.

Jim

SF Bay area, south bay. About 10 days ago I had a power outage that stopped my 250 mid-recording. After power up, I found I had lost the gird, the first time this has happened with no analog source. (Up to then I had been happily getting listings with a blank host, a normal condition for me.) From reading here, I knew I was in trouble, but decided to wait for a while just to see what would happen. I recovered the clock right away, from my digital CBS source (either cable 5.1 or OTA 5.1, it keeps switching), but the channel grid was empty (no data) and of course so were the listings. Not really wanting to get a TVGOS enabled converter, at least not right away, I survived with manual recordings and continued waiting.

To my surprise this morning I turned on my Sony and had a grid!



That's great. You are the first one, that I know of, to successfully get a grid from the digital host channel in SF.


Interestingly my host shows 0:29-0 (29 is the OTA RF channel for my CBS digital station). It's displaying like it was an OTA analog, but I guarantee it's not. Anyway, I'm not going to rock the boat, I will wait a couple of days and then setup my channels like I had them before.


That's normal, my host always shows as 0:19-0 for my host channel which is virtual channel 12-1. Actually, if it were analog, your host would show as 0:0-29.

Mark

Strike two. Maybe I can blame this on Comcast somehow?

Strike two. Maybe I can blame this on Comcast somehow?

Both ads and Day 8 Listings stopped here too. They were 100% complete last night. I think this is the third or fourth time in the last month?

Pic 8128: NumSearch 5 has begun with no HostChannel set. Pic 8129 and 8130: But the number of Slicer Errors and CkSum errors has remained very low on this temporary antenna hook up, along with a very good mix of EPP’s and DPP’s etc.

Pic 8131: Back to regular house antenna hook up (with all its known problems), and this screen about 6 minutes after a”00000” reset – changed LastSCause to an “8” – had been “12” for the last three NumSearches.

The last two time ads and Listings went away it took about 3 days to come back.

Both ads and Day 8 Listings stopped here too. They were 100% complete last night. I think this is the third or fourth time in the last month?

Pic 8128: NumSearch 5 has begun with no HostChannel set. Pic 8129 and 8130: But the number of Slicer Errors and CkSum errors has remained very low on this temporary antenna hook up, along with a very good mix of EPP’s and DPP’s etc.

Pic 8131: Back to regular house antenna hook up (with all its known problems), and this screen about 6 minutes after a”00000” reset – changed LastSCause to an “8” – had been “12” for the last three NumSearches.

The last two time ads and Listings went away it took about 3 days to come back.

Looks like they stopped playing around. Packets are back up and day 8 is filled in. Days 6 & 7 are still full of holes but that will flush out. There may have been some bad data in there since some time blocks of my host channel listing are showing as disabled. That's new.

Looks like they stopped playing around. Packets are back up and day 8 is filled in. Days 6 & 7 are still full of holes but that will flush out. There may have been some bad data in there since some time blocks of my host channel listing are showing as disabled. That's new.



Days 7 and 8 missing here and zero ads. If it follows the same pattern it has over the last month I do not expect the listings and ads to come back until Thursday morning.

Now the Sony DVR is back on the sub-standard house antenna system: The ATSC Slicer Errors are increasing significantly over the temporary antenna hook up, and the C ChkSum errors went from 3 to 5 – 3 was from one month on the temp antenna, and 2 additional ChkSum Errors in less than 20 hours on the house system. Only time will tell how badly the house antenna affects things, so I will give it a month.

Days 7 and 8 missing here and zero ads. If it follows the same pattern it has over the last month I do not expect the listings and ads to come back until Thursday morning.

Now the Sony DVR is back on the sub-standard house antenna system: The ATSC Slicer Errors are increasing significantly over the temporary antenna hook up, and the C ChkSum errors went from 3 to 5 – 3 was from one month on the temp antenna, and 2 additional ChkSum Errors in less than 20 hours on the house system. Only time will tell how badly the house antenna affects things, so I will give it a month.

I may be short on sleep today, but is it my imagination or is the show ratings display showing more data? The little box with PG13 now shows V or L. Is that new or is it just me? I also never remember seeing an "R" rating before. Could this be the video equivalent of March Madness?

I may be short on sleep today, but is it my imagination or is the show ratings display showing more data? The little box with PG13 now shows V or L. Is that new or is it just me? I also never remember seeing an "R" rating before. Could this be the video equivalent of March Madness?

I think there was some information posted in the TVGOS Information Help Window a couple of months ago – but hard to remember if that was a change or not? I vote for March Madness.

Hope some of the resident gurus can help me understand this. My DHGs are connected via HDMI to my HDTV and, right now, I'm using the TV's speakers. I'm planning on adding external audio and that's what got me playing with this.

If I set the DHG's Dolby digital to Auto-On, I get NO audio at all if I'm just tuned to "live" TV (any channel). But if I play back a recording, the audio is fine. In fact while the recording is playing, I can switch back and forth from the Auto-On to the Off setting and note no difference at all.

So that suggests the TV (a new Panny plasma) is decoding Dolby under one circumstance but not the other?? :confused:

Hope some of the resident gurus can help me understand this. My DHGs are connected via HDMI to my HDTV and, right now, I'm using the TV's speakers. I'm planning on adding external audio and that's what got me playing with this.

If I set the DHG's Dolby digital to Auto-On, I get NO audio at all if I'm just tuned to "live" TV (any channel). But if I play back a recording, the audio is fine. In fact while the recording is playing, I can switch back and forth from the Auto-On to the Off setting and note no difference at all.

So that suggests the TV (a new Panny plasma) is decoding Dolby under one circumstance but not the other?? :confused:

There is a Dolby indicator on the front panel. It changes for me depending on the channel. Does your loss of audio follow the indicator on the DHG? If so, your TV may be set to require Dolby. A test might be to hook up a 2ch stereo to see if that ever stops. This isn't very technical. In fact it's just a big guess.

Hope some of the resident gurus can help me understand this. My DHGs are connected via HDMI to my HDTV and, right now, I'm using the TV's speakers. I'm planning on adding external audio and that's what got me playing with this.

If I set the DHG's Dolby digital to Auto-On, I get NO audio at all if I'm just tuned to "live" TV (any channel). But if I play back a recording, the audio is fine. In fact while the recording is playing, I can switch back and forth from the Auto-On to the Off setting and note no difference at all.

So that suggests the TV (a new Panny plasma) is decoding Dolby under one circumstance but not the other?? :confused:

I use a Panny Plasma with the DHG. I have used it with just the plasma and the DHG, but about 2 years ago added a Dennon for the sound and picture. So I do not understand your question exactly. Do you want to use the Sony with a AVR with the TV or just the TV?

Currently the Sony DVR is conneted with both HDMI(picture) and toslink(sound) to the Denon. And from the Denon to the Plasma with only a HDMI. Basically all three are now interconnected and talk to each other via the HDMI. The Sony is not as "smart" as the newer plasma and denon, so the Sony has to be "told" when to turn "on" or "off" (via the remote).

1.
If I set the DHG's Dolby digital to Auto-On, I get NO audio at all if I'm just tuned to "live" TV (any channel). But if I play back a recording, the audio is fine. In fact while the recording is playing, I can switch back and forth from the Auto-On to the Off setting and note no difference at all.

2.
So that suggests the TV (a new Panny plasma) is decoding Dolby under one circumstance but not the other?? :confused:

1. Most likely due how it was originally recorded with the Dolby 5.1 auto-on to "off"? The TV has no toslink "input" just the HDMI input for plain 2 ch only.

2. The TV (like most of the TV's) will only do the 5.1 Dobly Out via its toslink connection - thus your AVR must process it via a toslink in.


I may not be understanding your questions correctly.

There is a Dolby indicator on the front panel. It changes for me depending on the channel. Does your loss of audio follow the indicator on the DHG? If so, your TV may be set to require Dolby. A test might be to hook up a 2ch stereo to see if that ever stops. This isn't very technical. In fact it's just a big guess.

I use a Panny Plasma with the DHG. I have used it with just the plasma and the DHG, but about 2 years ago added a Dennon for the sound and picture. So I do not understand your question exactly. Do you want to use the Sony with a AVR with the TV or just the TV?

Currently the Sony DVR is conneted with both HDMI(picture) and toslink(sound) to the Denon. And from the Denon to the Plasma with only a HDMI. Basically all three are now interconnected and talk to each other via the HDMI. The Sony is not as "smart" as the newer plasma and denon, so the Sony has to be "told" when to turn "on" or "off" (via the remote).

1. Most likely due how it was originally recorded with the Dolby 5.1 auto-on to "off"? The TV has no toslink "input" just the HDMI input for plain 2 ch only.

2. The TV (like most of the TV's) will only do the 5.1 Dobly Out via its toslink connection - thus your AVR must process it via a toslink in.


I may not be understanding your questions correctly.

Joe, I had not thought to look at the indicator. :o That added a new twist because with the DHG's Dolby set to Auto-on, the indicator is on regardless of what channel I tune (including SD channels). Of course I hear no audio at all with that setting. Now if I play back a recording, even one made from an SD channel, the indicator still stays on but I do have audio. When I turn the DHG's digital setting to OFF, the indicator does not light regardless of where I tune or during playback of a show that has 5.1.

Houston, let me reiterate and try to be clearer. Right now I have no external AVR, just using the TV speakers. I know I will have multiple connection options with an AVR. For now I'm just trying to understand why the DHG's Auto-on setting only gives me audio when playing back a recording.

I did a little test a bit ago. I tuned to a program that I know broadcasts with 5.1 surround. I set the DHG to Auto-on so I was seeing the program but hearing nothing. Then I recorded a few minutes of the program. Played back the recording and could hear the audio just fine. That is what is puzzling me. :eek:

BTW, I do not see any setting on the Panny that would make a difference. In the advanced audio for that HDMI input it is set to Digital.

Joe, I had not thought to look at the indicator. :o That added a new twist because with the DHG's Dolby set to Auto-on, the indicator is on regardless of what channel I tune (including SD channels). Of course I hear no audio at all with that setting. Now if I play back a recording, even one made from an SD channel, the indicator still stays on but I do have audio. When I turn the DHG's digital setting to OFF, the indicator does not light regardless of where I tune or during playback of a show that has 5.1.

Houston, let me reiterate and try to be clearer. Right now I have no external AVR, just using the TV speakers. I know I will have multiple connection options with an AVR. For now I'm just trying to understand why the DHG's Auto-on setting only gives me audio when playing back a recording.

I did a little test a bit ago. I tuned to a program that I know broadcasts with 5.1 surround. I set the DHG to Auto-on so I was seeing the program but hearing nothing. Then I recorded a few minutes of the program. Played back the recording and could hear the audio just fine. That is what is puzzling me. :eek:

BTW, I do not see any setting on the Panny that would make a difference. In the advanced audio for that HDMI input it is set to Digital.

I can't explain the difference between live or recorded. I tried to find a digital channel without DD but could not. My analog station is sent out the DHG as Linear PCM over toslink to my JVC receiver. The 5.1 from network HD is also fed to the receiver. I turned on the TV speakers but always had audio via the DHG HDMI cable. I know I've seen this problem before, but I can't remember the conditions. Sorry.

1.
Houston, let me reiterate and try to be clearer. Right now I have no external AVR, just using the TV speakers. I know I will have multiple connection options with an AVR. For now I'm just trying to understand why the DHG's Auto-on setting only gives me audio when playing back a recording.

2.
I did a little test a bit ago. I tuned to a program that I know broadcasts with 5.1 surround. I set the DHG to Auto-on so I was seeing the program but hearing nothing. Then I recorded a few minutes of the program. Played back the recording and could hear the audio just fine. That is what is puzzling me. :eek:



Ok I understand a little better now.

I have found that on my Sony DVR turning the Auto-On will kill the sound for most of the HDMI out. The TV will only process 2 ch in from the HDMI. The Samsung TV and Sony TV processed it all the same way.

I have found the only way to get sound all the time to the TV via HDMI, is to have the Sony's Auto On turned "off". That forces the HDMI sound to be "put out" only one way, that the TV can work with.

Unfortunately, I am trying to recall all that from memory 2 years ago, and that is bad. I just woke up, and still trying to figure out what today is.

Edit: I checked the manual, because I barely remember something about it. Page 81 on Audio.
I have had my Sony DVR connected to the Pana Plasma, Sony, and 3 different Samsungs, and they all responded just as you described. But IMO it is the way the Sony DVR works and processes the HDMI sound (not consistent), that is the issue. There really was nothing wrong with the different TV’s.

Ads and 8 day Listings 100% complete now. Only a 2 day outage this time instead of 3 - whoopie!

Still no HostChannel set - so Houston's standard will be "one" HostChannel set every 4 to 6 months LOL

Hope some of the resident gurus can help me understand this. My DHGs are connected via HDMI to my HDTV and, right now, I'm using the TV's speakers. I'm planning on adding external audio and that's what got me playing with this.

If I set the DHG's Dolby digital to Auto-On, I get NO audio at all if I'm just tuned to "live" TV (any channel). But if I play back a recording, the audio is fine.
This happens with my Tivo HD but not with the Sony
In fact while the recording is playing, I can switch back and forth from the Auto-On to the Off setting and note no difference at all.

So that suggests the TV (a new Panny plasma) is decoding Dolby under one circumstance but not the other?? :confused:

Please allow me to muddy the waters some more:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17655497&postcount=4049

Look at the PS

Ok I understand a little better now.

I have found that on my Sony DVR turning the Auto-On will kill the sound for most of the HDMI out. The TV will only process 2 ch in from the HDMI. The Samsung TV and Sony TV processed it all the same way.

I have found the only way to get sound all the time to the TV via HDMI, is to have the Sony's Auto On turned "off". That forces the HDMI sound to be "put out" only one way, that the TV can work with.



Yup, that pretty much describes what I'm experiencing except for the inconsistency between "live" and recorded output.

Please allow me to muddy the waters some more:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17655497&postcount=4049

Look at the PS

Thank you! You actually clarified the water a bit for me. :) I admit to being an audio neophyte and all these acronyms drive me nuts.

Do I have this correct? Since I watch TV OTA, I'll be using a TOSLINK from the TV to the AVR. The Panny manual says it outputs DB 5.1 from the ATSC tuner. (Too bad it doesn't mention what it does with audio coming in from HDMI :()

I can either (A) leave the DHGs connected via HDMI to the TV and then add optical out from DHG to AVR, or (B) just move the HDMI connections to the AVR and connect AVR to HDTV via HDMI. Choice (B) seems to make more sense to me. I assume I would also use the DHG's Dolby setting of Auto-on.

Currently the Sony DVR is conneted with both HDMI(picture) and toslink(sound) to the Denon. And from the Denon to the Plasma with only a HDMI. Basically all three are now interconnected and talk to each other via the HDMI. The Sony is not as "smart" as the newer plasma and denon, so the Sony has to be "told" when to turn "on" or "off" (via the remote).

I just went back and reread some of the posts. Why use both connections from the DHG to the AVR? Doesn't an AVR receive and decode Dolby from the HDMI?

The more I try to understand this the more "confuseder" I get. :D

I just went back and reread some of the posts. Why use both connections from the DHG to the AVR? Doesn't an AVR receive and decode Dolby from the HDMI?

The more I try to understand this the more "confuseder" I get. :D

The way I understand it and the way it works for me. It order to get real Dolby Digital 5.1 out of the Sony DVR is via toslink to the AVR. I think the Sony DVR is only able to send out plain 2 channel sound over the HDMI. It other words like most HDTV’s with OTA tuner will only send out 5.1 Dolby Digital via toslink. Similarly, my Pana Plasma only sends out 2 channel sound on HDMI (newest models might be different?)……….Meaning I get 5.1 on OTA channels from the plasma to the AVR via toslink (not the HDMI).

So my AVR has a toslink “in” from the Pana (for its OTA channels), AND a toslink “in” from the Sony DVR.

Now that is different from the Pana BluRay player it DOES send out ALL types of Audio (including the newer HD Audio’s) over HDMI to the AVR (no toslink required for the BluRay Player).

Fortunately, the AVR handles all this stuff “automatically” – it is nice to watch the front panel lights change and tell you what kinds of sound it is receiving at all times and then what it does with it on the output side. I prefer the “automatic modes”, which works great for me.

The way I understand it and the way it works for me. It order to get real Dolby Digital 5.1 out of the Sony DVR is via toslink to the AVR. I think the Sony DVR is only able to send out plain 2 channel sound over the HDMI. It other words like most HDTV’s with OTA tuner will only send out 5.1 Dolby Digital via toslink. Conversely my Pana Plasma only sends out 2 channel sound on HDMI……….Meaning I get 5.1 on OTA channels from the plasma to the AVR via toslink (not the HDMI).

So my AVR has a toslink “in” from the Pana (for its OTA channels), AND a toslink “in” from the Sony DVR.

Now that is different from the Pana BluRay player it DOES send out ALL types of Audio (including the newer HD Audio’s) over HDMI to the AVR (no toslink required for the BluRay Player).



Hmmmm...well I think when I get the AVR I'll just play with the connections and see what comes out! The fact that I get audio from recordings using the Auto-on setting suggests to me that the DHG is sending out 5.1 on the HDMI. I'll let you know how this all turns out.

I also have a Panny BluRay player so at least that should be a no-brainer. :)

Hmmmm...well I think when I get the AVR I'll just play with the connections and see what comes out! The fact that I get audio from recordings using the Auto-on setting suggests to me that the DHG is sending out 5.1 on the HDMI. I'll let you know how this all turns out.

I also have a Panny BluRay player so at least that should be a no-brainer. :)

I hope that it is a no-brainer. So far I've been trying to find content for my Sony Bluray with 5.1 so I can watch the lights come on with my coax input on a JVC receiver. They come on with the 5.1 from the DHG optical on HD channels. I'm going to see if there is a thread here on AVS that might explain things. Also, like HoustonPerson, I have my TV audio coming out in 2ch and optical. My DHG units feed the TV via HDMI and feed optical to the JVC. I switch because of a popping noise caused by the JVC when switching from DD to PCM or to 2ch analog. I guess tomorrow I'll be forced to hook up my AVR. Should be interesting.

Deleting and adding a channel.
Before the digital switch Ch.6 ABC in Philadelphia was on Ch.64 and their 3 channels on my HDD500 were displyed as 6.1, 6.2 and 6.3 . Since the switch in June their new digtal channels are according to the rabbit ears site 6.3, 6.4 and 6.5 . I receive 6.4 and 6.5 without any problems. No 6.3. I've tried 6.1, 6.2 and no video or audio. 6.3 is their main channel. I've done channel delete and then auto antenna scan and still the same problem. I believe the unit is still looking for 6.3 on Ch. 64.

How can I get the correct 6.3 without a reset that will not erase pre-recorded programs?

Deleting and adding a channel.
How can I get the correct 6.3 without a reset that will not erase pre-recorded programs?Jeez, you've got to be kidding. Do a re-scan!

Yup, that pretty much describes what I'm experiencing except for the inconsistency between "live" and recorded output.



Thank you! You actually clarified the water a bit for me. :) I admit to being an audio neophyte and all these acronyms drive me nuts.

Do I have this correct? Since I watch TV OTA, I'll be using a TOSLINK from the TV to the AVR. The Panny manual says it outputs DB 5.1 from the ATSC tuner. (Too bad it doesn't mention what it does with audio coming in from HDMI :()

I can either (A) leave the DHGs connected via HDMI to the TV and then add optical out from DHG to AVR, or (B) just move the HDMI connections to the AVR and connect AVR to HDTV via HDMI. Choice (B) seems to make more sense to me. I assume I would also use the DHG's Dolby setting of Auto-on.

Don't you just love modern Electronics technology, particularly AV technology. Why would anyone spend their valuable time watching trashy programs on cable or OTA when the time could be much more profitable spent delving into the intricacies of HDMI/HDCP/EDID.
Considering the many source, AVR and sink devices and the many settings available on each there is a lifetime of exciting possibilities to explore. This keeps the mind sharp and provides endless source material to post on AVS.

Now to business:
MY HDD 250 and TIVO HD are connected to a LG 55LH90 via HDMI 1 and 2 respectively.
The TV SPDIF is connected via Optical to a Sony STR820 AVR. The 250 audio set to Auto on passes 5.1 to the TV which in turn passes it to one on the 820 optical inputs where the 820 duly displays DB digital 5.1 for those programs which broadcast that format. This is true for both live TV (OTA and cable) and recorded programs.

The Tivo HD is another story. When the Tivo audio is set to PCM the 820 reports 2 ch stereo. When the Tivo audio is set to DB digital the 820 reports 5.1 on OTA but when the Tivo is switched to another channel there is no sound even when switching back to the original channel.
When the Tivo audio is switched back to PCM the 820 sound returns but is back to 2 ch stereo.
The Tivo EDID is a mess.

The Sony 820 has 4 HDMI inputs and decodes the advanced audio formats, DTS MA and DB THD. It is a 7.1 channel AVR and I have 7.1 speakers. With few exceptions the advanced formats are only present on BR and HD DVD and only the BR and HD DVD players are connected this way. The HD250 and Tivo are connected directly to the TV primarily because using the AVR for broadcast programs with 5.1 sound is not essential to me and the additional power draw just raises my utility bill. In a few instances where 5.1 is deemed important the 820 can reproduce that via the optical source from the TV.

Your question:
I can either (A) leave the DHGs connected via HDMI to the TV and then add optical out from DHG to AVR, or (B) just move the HDMI connections to the AVR and connect AVR to HDTV via HDMI. Choice (B) seems to make more sense to me. I assume I would also use the DHG's Dolby setting of Auto-onThere is a choice C, HDMI to TV and TV optical to the AVR if available and operational.

Of course the choice is yours. My preference is to leave the 250 on HDMI to the TV and power up the 820 via optical from the TV for some programs where the 5.1 sound would be worthwhile. The opening and closing ceremonies of the winter Olympics would be an example.

Jeez, you've got to be kidding. Do a re-scan!

Classy response. If you read my post I did re-scan.

Classy response. If you read my post I did re-scan.

My suggestion would be to do TWO scans. First disconnect your antenna and do a scan (not an "add channels"). Then reconnect the antenna and scan once more. I think that should probably fix your problem. :)

Classy response. If you read my post I did re-scan.

I saw. Can you get a second opinion to be sure 6.3 is ok? Philly ABC has been having "issues". There was a time that it didn't have the ABC logo on the DHG grid. It's putting out a signal since my cable feed includes it in SD.

Deleting and adding a channel.
Before the digital switch Ch.6 ABC in Philadelphia was on Ch.64 and their 3 channels on my HDD500 were displyed as 6.1, 6.2 and 6.3 . Since the switch in June their new digtal channels are according to the rabbit ears site 6.3, 6.4 and 6.5 . I receive 6.4 and 6.5 without any problems. No 6.3. I've tried 6.1, 6.2 and no video or audio. 6.3 is their main channel. I've done channel delete and then auto antenna scan and still the same problem. I believe the unit is still looking for 6.3 on Ch. 64.

How can I get the correct 6.3 without a reset that will not erase pre-recorded programs?

My suggestion would be to do TWO scans. First disconnect your antenna and do a scan (not an "add channels"). Then reconnect the antenna and scan once more. I think that should probably fix your problem. :)

rcodey,

I would do what WS65711 suggested with one small change. After doing the scan without the antenna connected, reconnect the antenna, and try tuning directly to 6.3. This should be the real 6.3 where ABC is. Also verify that 6.4, and 6.5 come in. Since a channel scan should remap channel 6.5 to the virtual channel 6.3, there would be no way to directly tune to the real channel 6.3 (ABC) after that. I'm not sure why the Sony wouldn't map 6.1, 6.2, and 6.3 to 6.3, 6.4, and 6.5, like it is supposed to though.

Mark

I have both a 500 and a 250. Recently, the 500 developed a malady wherein it will not accept any remote control commands while it's recording. As a matter of fact, if you persist in sending remote control commands while it is recording, it will reboot. This of course renders the unit something less than useful! If one is in the middle of watching a recorded show, and another recording is scheduled to start, it switches to the recording channel, and freezes... until the recording is finished.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has ever seen this problem before, and more importantly, what they did to alleviate the situation.

Any help or insight anyone can offer, will be much appreciated.

John O'Boyle

I have both a 500 and a 250. Recently, the 500 developed a malady wherein it will not accept any remote control commands while it's recording. As a matter of fact, if you persist in sending remote control commands while it is recording, it will reboot. This of course renders the unit something less than useful! If one is in the middle of watching a recorded show, and another recording is scheduled to start, it switches to the recording channel, and freezes... until the recording is finished.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has ever seen this problem before, and more importantly, what they did to alleviate the situation.

Any help or insight anyone can offer, will be much appreciated.

John O'Boyle


The problem is fairly common and many have experienced it. There a multitude of elements that can cause this problem; many are out of your control. With that said in many cases some of the quick fixes may solve the problem.

1. First try the front panel soft reset (press and hold the TV-Guide and Exit buttons at the same time for a few seconds then let go). Later after the clock returns, use the box as you normally would over the next day.

If that does not work try:

2. Try the cold reset “unplug/plug” – leave it unplugged about 5 min before plugging back in. Run the box a couple of days to see if the problem goes away.

Note: Each of those mild resets will not lose any data or recordings; but it may take up to one day for the clock to come back – normally within one hour. If the clock is not back in one day, turn it on with the remote to see if it wakes up.

If you’re lucky that may work. If not then visit SpiffSpace and begin reading.

http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php

I have both a 500 and a 250. Recently, the 500 developed a malady wherein it will not accept any remote control commands while it's recording. As a matter of fact, if you persist in sending remote control commands while it is recording, it will reboot. This of course renders the unit something less than useful! If one is in the middle of watching a recorded show, and another recording is scheduled to start, it switches to the recording channel, and freezes... until the recording is finished.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has ever seen this problem before, and more importantly, what they did to alleviate the situation.

Any help or insight anyone can offer, will be much appreciated.

John O'Boyle

As HoustonPerson said, the problem is well known and the fix is documented on this thread (http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=38.0)in Spiff's forum. I'd suggest reading that thread first though, before performing any of the resets. :)

Thanks. I tried the soft-rest, to no avail, before I looked for help. Now I'll start the suggested procedure. Query. Am I running the risk of losing my firmware level via this rest procedure? I finally have all the digital stuff working properly.

Thanks.

JLOB

Thanks. I tried the soft-rest, to no avail, before I looked for help. Now I'll start the suggested procedure. Query. Am I running the risk of losing my firmware level via this rest procedure? I finally have all the digital stuff working properly.

Thanks.

JLOB

I'm not sure. At the time I did the fix for both my units I had not yet upgraded FW. Just keep your flashdrive handy in case you do have to reinstall. :D

My suggestion would be to do TWO scans. First disconnect your antenna and do a scan (not an "add channels"). Then reconnect the antenna and scan once more. I think that should probably fix your problem. :)

Thanks. Did this and on the third try it worked. Before I posted this problem I had tried rescanning about 7 or 8 times without success.

Thanks. Did this and on the third try it worked. Before I posted this problem I had tried rescanning about 7 or 8 times without success.

Glad to hear that it worked for you :)

I have both a 500 and a 250. Recently, the 500 developed a malady wherein it will not accept any remote control commands while it's recording. As a matter of fact, if you persist in sending remote control commands while it is recording, it will reboot. This of course renders the unit something less than useful! If one is in the middle of watching a recorded show, and another recording is scheduled to start, it switches to the recording channel, and freezes... until the recording is finished.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has ever seen this problem before, and more importantly, what they did to alleviate the situation.

Any help or insight anyone can offer, will be much appreciated.

John O'Boyle

I have a HDD-250 with Comcast CableCard and it had been on firmware version 1.2.21 since it was released last year. My 250 had been really frustrating me the last couple months or so with the repeated lockups. I didn't have much long-term success after using the suggested lockup resolution (although it had been helpful in the past) so I finally reverted to firmware 1.2.13. So far, my unit has been fine the last week-plus with plenty of watching-saved-content-while-recording.

Well, it has been more than a week since KMOV in St. Louis turned their TVGOS feed back on and one of my two DHG-HDD250 DVR’s has not been able to populate its listing grid. When going into the TVGOS on the DVR, the following message is displayed, "There is no data for this screen".

For some background, I upgraded the firm ware on both DVR’s and reset the TVGOS on one of them before I knew that KMOV had turned off their TVGOS feed. A day after KMOV turned the TVGOS feed back on, the DVR that had not been reset had TV guide listings again. KMOV broadcasts the TVGOS feed on OTA channel 4-1 in St. Louis. After using the 753159852 diagnostic screens to compare the DVR’s this evening, I can report the following:

Working DVR Non-working DVR
------------- ----------------
Host Channel blank blank
OTA Lineup 0x7D 0x0
Last SU 2/15/10 17:02:34 N/A
Clock Set Chan 0:4-1 0:24-0
Failing Clock Chan 0:24-0 0:24-0
TVGOS version 08.06.44 08.06.44

ATSC slicer info
---------------
Host Chan column All zeros All zeros
Since Cold & CurrChan column differences
TVG Static # Incrementing # TotSections Static # Incrementing #
Dummy Static # Incrementing #

Because the non-working DVR has a Clock Set Chan setting that is not the KMOV TVGOS channel, I’m wondering if I should reset the TVGOS on that DVR again. This time the KMOV feed would be available and would hopefully be found for the Clock Set Channel and the TVGOS listings. Does this sound like what I should do?

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you,

Lance

Thanks. I tried the soft-rest, to no avail, before I looked for help. Now I'll start the suggested procedure. Query. Am I running the risk of losing my firmware level via this rest procedure? I finally have all the digital stuff working properly.

Thanks.

JLOB

I'm in CT and I did the procedure above and it successfully eliminated the problem with the lockups. No impact to the firmware.

Well, it has been more than a week since KMOV in St. Louis turned their TVGOS feed back on and one of my two DHG-HDD250 DVR’s has not been able to populate its listing grid. When going into the TVGOS on the DVR, the following message is displayed, "There is no data for this screen".

For some background, I upgraded the firm ware on both DVR’s and reset the TVGOS on one of them before I knew that KMOV had turned off their TVGOS feed. A day after KMOV turned the TVGOS feed back on, the DVR that had not been reset had TV guide listings again. KMOV broadcasts the TVGOS feed on OTA channel 4-1 in St. Louis. After using the 753159852 diagnostic screens to compare the DVR’s this evening, I can report the following:

Working DVR Non-working DVR
------------- ----------------
Host Channel blank blank
OTA Lineup 0x7D 0x0
Last SU 2/15/10 17:02:34 N/A
Clock Set Chan 0:4-1 0:24-0
Failing Clock Chan 0:24-0 0:24-0
TVGOS version 08.06.44 08.06.44

ATSC slicer info
---------------
Host Chan column All zeros All zeros
Since Cold & CurrChan column differences
TVG Static # Incrementing # TotSections Static # Incrementing #
Dummy Static # Incrementing #

Because the non-working DVR has a Clock Set Chan setting that is not the KMOV TVGOS channel, I’m wondering if I should reset the TVGOS on that DVR again. This time the KMOV feed would be available and would hopefully be found for the Clock Set Channel and the TVGOS listings. Does this sound like what I should do?

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you,

Lance


Well the post is little bit of a ruff read.

Rabbit Ears Info says RF 24 is your station 4-1 ………. So the information on your Clock Set channel is A-OK. Nothing to do there.

I assume both your Sony DVR’s are OTA only? No cable hook up?

It appears you went deep into TVGOS reset to “clear out the grid” and now you have the big black square that says "There is no data for this screen" on one of your DVR’s otherwise they are both the same.

Generally, St. Louis should be working OK (it has in the past), so perhaps just wait a couple of weeks to see if it comes back.


OR

instead of doing the 9012 TVGOS reset, you might try (maybe after 5 days or so), the "00000" zip code reset.

Well, it has been more than a week since KMOV in St. Louis turned their TVGOS feed back on and one of my two DHG-HDD250 DVR’s has not been able to populate its listing grid. When going into the TVGOS on the DVR, the following message is displayed, "There is no data for this screen".



On your working DVR go to the VBI Info screen which is 3 screens up from the first screen. What is the date in the LastASetEnd field? This will be the date that the host channel was last set on the working DVR, and provide insite on how long it may take to get your grid back. If that field is N/A, or months old, that could be a bad sign. If it shows a date within the last month, then your DVR without a grid should set a host channel soon, and get a grid.

Mark

Classy response. If you read my post I did re-scan.No disrespect intended... my point is that you should never need to tune digital channels using their physical channel numbers - it's a recipe for trouble... the fact that you were receiving/watching a 6.4 and 6.5 for over 6 months without even realizing that isn't the way it's supposed to work led me to believe that somehow you had missed the zillions of pre-transition public service reminders that you must do a re-scan immediately after the transition. If you did that and the Sony still ended up in that screwed-up state, then bless it's confused little CPU.

I have not been able to manually delete a recording on my HDD250 so have not used it for a while, it has been plugged in despite not being used and i just noticed that the hard drive is continually running even with the unit turned off.. is this normal??

I have not been able to manually delete a recording on my HDD250 so have not used it for a while, it has been plugged in despite not being used and i just noticed that the hard drive is continually running even with the unit turned off.. is this normal??Yes, completely normal if it's plugged in.

I have not been able to manually delete a recording on my HDD250 so have not used it for a while,

I see you posted about that problem back last August. Have you considered doing a "Restore Factory Default" from the 9012 menu? It reformats the HDD which will obviously delete the recording :). More important, it might eliminate whatever problem is causing the inability to delete.

Try a 'Clear NVM' first.

The few times I've had that problem in the past, the soft, front panel reset fixed it. Sometimes I had to do it more than once, but it always cleared it up eventually.

Actually, I've never had to do a complete "Restore Factory Default" reset on mine. But if you have to, you have to.

I may be short on sleep today, but is it my imagination or is the show ratings display showing more data? The little box with PG13 now shows V or L. Is that new or is it just me? I also never remember seeing an "R" rating before. Could this be the video equivalent of March Madness?

It is possible that some of the “lettering” has been expanded? And perhaps it more closely follows the information at the end of the expanded descriptions? I think most of it has been there for a while now?

Pic 8136: House New – TV14 SLD and also see the end of the description for House

Pic 8135: Show “24” New – TV14 VS and end of description

Pic 8134: This is the TVGOS Movie Guide rating – but I think I have seen one for TV Shows as well?

Over the weekend I connected up an AVR and I do appreciate the responses to my previous questions.

The way I understand it and the way it works for me. It order to get real Dolby Digital 5.1 out of the Sony DVR is via toslink to the AVR. I think the Sony DVR is only able to send out plain 2 channel sound over the HDMI. It other words like most HDTV’s with OTA tuner will only send out 5.1 Dolby Digital via toslink. Similarly, my Pana Plasma only sends out 2 channel sound on HDMI (newest models might be different?)……….Meaning I get 5.1 on OTA channels from the plasma to the AVR via toslink (not the HDMI).

So my AVR has a toslink “in” from the Pana (for its OTA channels), AND a toslink “in” from the Sony DVR.

......

Maybe there is something squirrelly with your DHG?? I turned the Dolby setting to AUTO-ON on both my units, connected them via HDMI to inputs on the AVR and everything works perfectly. No need to also use toslink from DHG to AVR to get 5.1 audio, either from the DVR tuner or from recorded content. You must use the AUTO-ON setting though. If you set Dolby to OFF, you only get 2.0.

.....
Your question:
There is a choice C, HDMI to TV and TV optical to the AVR if available and operational.



Well, that works only if I don't want to hear audio from the DVR's tuner. :) I tested this before I moved one of my DHG's HDMI connection over to the AVR. With Dolby set to AUTO-ON, there's no sound at all from the DVR tuner (same result as using the TV speakers). However, when playing back a recording with 5.1 content, much to my surprise the TV did send 5.1 out via optical just as if the audio came from the TV tuner.

Can a Harmony (or other) remote independently operate two DHGs that are co-located? In other words, use a different IR for each one? I've been using a separate remote for each of my units: one set to IR 50 and the other to IR 51.

Maybe there is something squirrelly with your DHG?? I turned the Dolby setting to AUTO-ON on both my units, connected them via HDMI to inputs on the AVR and everything works perfectly. No need to also use toslink from DHG to AVR to get 5.1 audio, either from the DVR tuner or from recorded content. You must use the AUTO-ON setting though. If you set Dolby to OFF, you only get 2.0.

.



Possumgirl

You are absolutely correct.

I realized there was an easy way to make the change without moving all the equipment, so this is what I did.

Pic 8141: Went into the Denon setup to change the ports for the HDD-500. No changes made to the Sony Box.

Pic 8142: Turned Off the Toslink – “None” The only input from the Sony Box is via HDMI.

Pic 8144: I could reach the Toslink on the back of the Sony Box – so just unplugged to make sure it is dead.

Pic 8145: Both Live TV and old recordings work perfectly.

Pic 8146: The Denon reports all is in order. Dolby Digital 5.1 Audio "in" from Sony Box via HDMI and 5.1 out. Sorry it’s blurry, very dark and no lights.

No disrespect intended... my point is that you should never need to tune digital channels using their physical channel numbers - it's a recipe for trouble... the fact that you were receiving/watching a 6.4 and 6.5 for over 6 months without even realizing that isn't the way it's supposed to work led me to believe that somehow you had missed the zillions of pre-transition public service reminders that you must do a re-scan immediately after the transition. If you did that and the Sony still ended up in that screwed-up state, then bless it's confused little CPU.

No problem. Just happy to get ABC from Philly 72 miles away on my HDD500. Now I can use my Directv receiver for ABC from New Haven.

Can a Harmony (or other) remote independently operate two DHGs that are co-located? In other words, use a different IR for each one? I've been using a separate remote for each of my units: one set to IR 50 and the other to IR 51.



Possumgirl,

I know that the Sony Remote RM-VL610B from J&R is a perfect match for IR code 50 by simply using the code number 3101. There are only about 4 buttons to add which take about 30 min or less and you are 100% complete.

I do not know if there is a default code like 3101 to use for the IR 51 remote, OR if each button must be individually coded in-yikes? So in a worse case scenario if no default code is available, as long as you have an IR51 remote the Sony 610 remote could learn all the buttons. That way one remote can control two Sony DVRs side by side and all the other equipment as well.

The really nice thing about the 610 remote is all the “transport buttons” that most remotes are lacking for DHG-HDD use.

Can a Harmony (or other) remote independently operate two DHGs that are co-located? In other words, use a different IR for each one? I've been using a separate remote for each of my units: one set to IR 50 and the other to IR 51.

I use two DHGs that way with my Harmony. The Harmony database didn't contain a separate "device" for code 51 four years ago when I set this up, so I simply made a second copy of the DHG-HDD250 that was in their database and taught it all the code 51 codes from the original Sony remote. This is a slightly tedious task but doesn't take very long, probably less than a half hour. Maybe Harmony has a code 51 version somewhere in their database now.

Things got interesting last fall when I did a "Restore Factory Default" on the code 51 unit, which of course reset it to code 50. I had to cover up my code 50 unit so it couldn't see the remote while I reset the other one back to code 51.

Guess Rovi is getting ready. I have listings for day 9 until 1am. There is just so much I could say but why bother.

Guess Rovi is getting ready. I have listings for day 9 until 1am. There is just so much I could say but why bother.
Getting ready for what?

Getting ready for what?

Probably they figured that by changing the listings end time now, they won't lose an hour of sleep next weekend. I find it kind of cute. I wonder when the listings end for zip codes in Arizona and Hawaii?

Guess Rovi is getting ready. I have listings for day 9 until 1am. There is just so much I could say but why bother.

Typically by 10PM of any day, when you look at listings to Day "9" it will usually have "listings" data filled in to about 3:30AM for Day "9", with the remainder of Day "9" as "no listings". By the next morning when you look, the Day 9 becomes the Day 8 (no longer a Day 9 there), and the Day 8 can be typically be 90% to 100% complete.

The two major factors that control all of this are Solar Flairs and Rovi.

Typically by 10PM of any day, when you look at listings to Day "9" it will usually have "listings" data filled in to about 3:30AM for Day "9", with the remainder of Day "9" as "no listings". By the next morning when you look, the Day 9 becomes the Day 8 (no longer a Day 9 there), and the Day 8 can be typically be 90% to 100% complete.

The two major factors that control all of this are Solar Flairs and Rovi.

It's funny, because when I first checked day 8 at 6am (EST) this morning as I normally do, I saw WED on the screen. I though we were screwed and Rovi was going for a two day listing. I also feel that since Rovi is based in California, a factor is that their midnight is my 3am. Usually at midnight I see day 8 as only listings that started in day 7 and extend past midnight. Nothing is new until sometime during the early morning hours while I'm sleeping. Since I get home from work about midnight on Sat, Sun & Mon, I have a lot of practice with this. I also noticed that starting yesterday there were no longer "no title" gaps for several NBC/U channels. Add into all this the rising battle between the networks and cable providers, I really need to get an antenna working this year.

Well, that works only if I don't want to hear audio from the DVR's tuner. :) I tested this before I moved one of my DHG's HDMI connection over to the AVR. With Dolby set to AUTO-ON, there's no sound at all from the DVR tuner (same result as using the TV speakers). However, when playing back a recording with 5.1 content, much to my surprise the TV did send 5.1 out via optical just as if the audio came from the TV tuner.

Just another example of EDID problems. This option works on my LG TV but it is an exception, it does not work on an old Vizio 52GLF. It does not work with the Tivo HD.

But I see that you have 5.1 working using houstenperson's advice. But using HDMI to the AVR and then to the TV means the AVR has to be powered on, something that with SDG&E rates here is expensive. My Sony AVR draws close to 150 watts, about twice what the 55LH90 TV consumes.

I use two DHGs that way with my Harmony. The Harmony database didn't contain a separate "device" for code 51 four years ago when I set this up, so I simply made a second copy of the DHG-HDD250 that was in their database and taught it all the code 51 codes from the original Sony remote. This is a slightly tedious task but doesn't take very long, probably less than a half hour. Maybe Harmony has a code 51 version somewhere in their database now.

Things got interesting last fall when I did a "Restore Factory Default" on the code 51 unit, which of course reset it to code 50. I had to cover up my code 50 unit so it couldn't see the remote while I reset the other one back to code 51.

Was just about to post that method, but you beat me to it.

The Harmony is a so versatile and the device database is exceptional. My 880 switches inputs to a Monoprice HDMI switch and a CablesTogo component video/audio switch with ease.
The TV database also offers discrete TV input switching for most sets avoiding the nuisance of bringing up a menu to do so.

But I see that you have 5.1 working using houstenperson's advice. But using HDMI to the AVR and then to the TV means the AVR has to be powered on, something that with SDG&E rates here is expensive. My Sony AVR draws close to 150 watts, about twice what the 55LH90 TV consumes.


LOL, Actually it was Possumgirl that got my brain fixed. I have had so many HDTV with ATSC tuners I has lost track of which ones did what. Apparently I had the same thing occur on previous TV’s where the Sony DVR AUTO-On would not work on certain TVs, just sometimes. So like the book said I just turned the “AUTO-ON” to “off” and the sound always worked. Then later when the AVR was added, I just assumed the toslink was required for 5.1 (and it may be on some units?) – but I discovered on the Denon it is not; thus the HDMI from the Sony DVR works perfect with the Denon and the toslink is not required.

So as of now everything seems to work perfect this way:

Sony DVR >> HDMI >> AVR - carries picture and sound data

Pana BluRay >> HDMI >> AVR – carries picture and sound data including HD Audio – I wish TV had HD Audio!

AVR >> HDMI >> Pana Plasma – carries picture only
Pana Plasma >> Toslink >> AVR - all sound (2.0, 5.1 etc) is carried from the TV OTA ATSC to the AVR.

Do not try this at home.

Ok, so I am trying to search for the T.A.M.I. Show.

Well keyword search does not have “period” – at least I did not see it? Is this something else I missed?

So:

I search for “Show” – not there way too many.

I search for “tam” not there and not what I wanted.

I search for “the” not there either –that is not what I wanted.

Then I search for “T” – a very bad idea. After it listed about 2,000 shows……………I got:

WELCOME

Those of us familiar with the dumb boxes know the is not a nice WELCOME it is a mean WELCOME

After it finishes rebooting I hope will be able to enter and KILL the T without it searching to the end of the planet for all T’s

The box rebooted, removed the “T” by itself (no action by me), and all is in order once again. The Digital Grid remains intact.

Ok, so I am trying to search for the T.A.M.I. Show.



If you haven't found it by now, go to Movies search, then the Musical category. The PBS stations here are showing it all week. :)

IIRC ...... The sign at the front of the Theater said "Teen Age Music International". But it was a long time ago...... I think I was about twelve. Did you try seaching for that? :D

Thanks Guys

The TAMI Show:

Actually, we had seen the recording on PBS just a few days ago. I think they showed it here earlier than the national schedule. And I wanted to try to capture again to perhaps get the entire 2 hours in HD. It no longer shows up for the next 8 days here in Houston. It was really fascinating.

It was actually made in 1964 with pre-historic HD video cameras, and then captured to movie film from a picture tube, all in B&W. They should have just captured it on movie film to begin with – one of those eternal “Why?” questions.

Unfortunately, our local PBS only showed the first 12 minutes in HD – had about 1-2” black bars on each side. Then the station “popped” and it went to tiny Window Box for the remaining 2 hours – meaning I had to zoom to fill the screen. Even so, it was relatively sharp. Much sharper than any TV for that day and age.

If you Google it you can find out a lot of history on it; but a full release will be available at Retail Stores (BB and all the others) on March 23, 2010 about $16. The first Electronvision recording (Hamlet) cost $350,000 in 1964, and just a few months later the second Electronvision was made – The TAMI Show. They could have saved $349,000 if they had just put it on film to begin with? Remember that is 1964 dollars, I guess that is 3.5 million today?

The approximate video quality is:

Original Video Camera about 1100 lines of resolution (the norm back then about 525) at 25FPS, then played on picture tube (resolution unknown-I could not find it), then onto 35mm movie (maybe just 16mm?), and now supposedly to regular DVD widescreen, 480i and 1.0 sound I guess? It is not really HD as we know it today. But it is remarkable IMO.

I believe I Love Lucy was shot using a similar process.

Just closing the loop on an earlier issue. On Saturday afternoon, I did the TVGOS reset from the 9012 menu on my DVR that was not populating its listing grid. I had previously reset this DVR while KMOV was not broadcasting the TVGOS feed and it was over a week with no listings.

After the reset with KMOV broadcasting TVGOS data, on Sunday the time was correct and by Monday afternoon, the DVR had TV listings again. The new version of the firmware is really nice.

Thank you,

Lance

Day 8 Listings and ads are gone this Thursday AM.

It is about 30 hours into NumSearch 1, but it did recieve ads and listings the first night in NumSearch 1.

HostSUFlag only needs 1 bit to go at: 0xf78

ATSC shows lots of data coming in, but it has not populated anything yet.

It appears that it "wants to set HostChannel" again; but even if it does not, and if it follows the same pattern over the last 6 weeks, it should be re-populating again by Saturday morning.

Day 8 Listings and ads are gone this Thursday AM.

It is about 30 hours into NumSearch 1, but it did recieve ads and listings the first night in NumSearch 1.

HostSUFlag only needs 1 bit to go at: 0xf78

ATSC shows lots of data coming in, but it has not populated anything yet.

It appears that it "wants to set HostChannel" again; but even if it does not, and if it follows the same pattern over the last 6 weeks, it should be re-populating again by Saturday morning.

Same symptoms. I do have 0x08 and 0xFF80000 for VBI info, but that may just be a cable thing. No clock or packet problems either.

Same symptoms. I do have 0x08 and 0xFF80000 for VBI info, but that may just be a cable thing. No clock or packet problems either.

No real news to report here. The "Listings" came back Friday morning, so 8 days complete; and the "ads" came back late in the day.

Still about half way through NumSearch "1". VBIState has started over from ? and up to 0x05 at least twice I have seen. And each time HostSUFlag hits 0xf78 very quickly

If you are bored, have nothing else to do, or want to “force a memory overload reset” from the comfort of your chair (using the remote); then for fun you can try this.

Please keep in mind there are no guarantees! Your Sony Box could catch on fire and never work again.

1. Turn box “on” and tune to any channel

2. Set Up a keyword search for the letter “T” (if you must you could use any letter).

3. Begin your search for programs with the letter “T” in them, and you should see one page of programs with a letter “T” in them

4. In order to overload the memory; begin paging down (channel button up/down – use the down of course) several times – you may have to go a few hundred or thousand programs down. Just hit the channel down button about every other second (perhaps ten times), soon the Sony Box will say on the front panel “Welcome”. It has now begun its reset process and will turn itself off. Do nothing until your clock comes back on with the correct time. This could take 10 minutes or a couple of days. If your area does not normally get a clock set quickly then you should not do this, or you could develop rabies.


WARNING:
Once your turn the box back on, confirm that your keyword search “T” is no longer set up in the box (this is how it worked for me – it may not work that way for you). If the keyword search “T” is still there, then Delete It Now! If you cannot delete it (unlikely), then you may have to do more aggressive resets to get rid of it; perhaps 9012 TVGOS reset –should do it, if not then maybe a Reset Factory Defaults. This could mean you would not be a happy person.

This type of Memory Overload Reset set should create an “800A” reset that you will see on your Reset Error Tracker Page with the date/time stamp.

The 800A now has a definition “Memory Overload Reset”

No real news to report here. The "Listings" came back Friday morning, so 8 days complete; and the "ads" came back late in the day.

Still about half way through NumSearch "1". VBIState has started over from ? and up to 0x05 at least twice I have seen. And each time HostSUFlag hits 0xf78 very quickly

It's easy to tell when things are working ok. No posts for almost 48 hours. I still get some "no listings" blocks. The new normal I guess.

It's easy to tell when things are working ok. No posts for almost 48 hours. I still get some "no listings" blocks. The new normal I guess.
I'm getting those as well, mostly on CBS.

I'm also still getting the first episode of Cops on Saturdays on Fox dropping out of the schedule (the 2nd one never drops out), I have a manual recording set as a backup. Anyone else losing scheduled recordings?

Tonight I saw a VBIState of 0x01. Here is how it happened:
[...]



After several weeks, I finally got pictures of this. The VBIState only stays at 0x01 for less than 10 seconds, so it is hard to catch. If it hadn't been for Possumgirl pointing out that the host channel blanks a little over 3 days and 6 hours after it sets, I never would have tried to get these pictures.

Picture1: The VBIState is at 0x07 (it had been at 0x07 for several hours). This was taken less than a minute before the host channel blanked.

Picture2: Seconds before the host channel blanks, the VBIState changes from 0x07 to 0x01. Notice the GMT time is 2:51.

Picture3: Less than 10 seconds after going to 0x01, the VBIState goes to 0x03, NumSearch goes from 7 to 8, the HostSUFlags clear, and the LastSrchSt field fills in with the current time. All of this happens at the same time. Notice the LastSrchSt field shows GMT is 2:51:06. Which means picture 2 was taken less than 6 seconds before the host channel blanked.

Mark

After several weeks, I finally got pictures of this. The VBIState only stays at 0x01 for less than 10 seconds, so it is hard to catch. If it hadn't been for Possumgirl pointing out that the host channel blanks a little over 3 days and 6 hours after it sets, I never would have tried to get these pictures.

Picture1: The VBIState is at 0x07 (it had been at 0x07 for several hours). This was taken less than a minute before the host channel blanked.

Picture2: Seconds before the host channel blanks, the VBIState changes from 0x07 to 0x01. Notice the GMT time is 2:51.

Picture3: Less than 10 seconds after going to 0x01, the VBIState goes to 0x03, NumSearch goes from 7 to 8, the HostSUFlags clear, and the LastSrchSt field fills in with the current time. All of this happens at the same time. Notice the LastSrchSt field shows GMT is 2:51:06. Which means picture 2 was taken less than 6 seconds before the host channel blanked.

Mark

Thanks for the pics Mark; so now when the VBIState leaves 0x05 and goes to 0x06 the HostChannel is set again along with 0xff8?

glad you caught it, sometimes it takes me an hour to find the camera LOL

Sometimes I think the "screens" are not really reporting what are going on when you look at them...........sometimes if you just page forward and back it will "update" with more current information.

While watching the ATSC Slicer page, have you noticed when data comes in, it will update say about every 2 seconds (or more). BUT while you are watching it - each time you hit the "right arrow" on the remote it will update the information instantly.

Thanks for the pics Mark; so now when the VBIState leaves 0x05 and goes to 0x06 the HostChannel is set again along with 0xff8?


Maybe, but that would happen when the host channel sets. These pictures show the host channel blanking.


glad you caught it, sometimes it takes me an hour to find the camera LOL


I was prepared. I started planning for this when I saw that my host channel had set during the day Wednesday. The same thing happened last weekend, but I had something else that I had to do, and I wasn't home when the host channel blanked. This was actually the second time that I took pictures of this happening. On March 1st, with my camera ready, my host channel blanked, but I wasn't paying enough attention when it switched to 0x01 (I didn't know it would only stay there for a short time), and I just missed that picture.


Sometimes I think the "screens" are not really reporting what are going on when you look at them...........sometimes if you just page forward and back it will "update" with more current information.

While watching the ATSC Slicer page, have you noticed when data comes in, it will update say about every 2 seconds (or more). BUT while you are watching it - each time you hit the "right arrow" on the remote it will update the information instantly.

I have seen this also. The data itself doesn't come in faster doing this, but the screen just updates faster (Instead of updating 10 counts at a time it will update date two counts at a time).

Mark

My hdd250 will not let me manually delete recordings. Has this happened to anyone else? If so,is the problem with the hard drive or in the electronics?

My 250 has suddenly stopped tuning my channel 7 digital subchannels. I'm on comcast cable with no card, not ota.

It still tunes the analog version, and the digital versions of the other channels that I've checked, just not this one. Anyone have any idea what the problem is? Thanks.

My hdd250 will not let me manually delete recordings. Has this happened to anyone else? If so,is the problem with the hard drive or in the electronics?

Turn on your DVR. On the DVR's remote press this key:

Menu (this brings up the menu)

Now press these buttons in sequence. As each button is pressed there is nothing on the screen that changes, so just keep pressing each button one after the other. There is no time constraint either, you can wait several seconds between each button press if you want.

Screen/Mode (this is a single button on the upper left side of the remote)
9 (the 9 key)
0 (the 0 key)
1 (the 1 key)
2 (the 2 key)

The menu should now have changed to a different menu. The top item is "Demo Mode". Select this item, and in the next screen verify it is set to off. If Demo Mode is set to on, you will have the symptoms that you are describing.

Mark

My 250 has suddenly stopped tuning my channel 7 digital subchannels. I'm on comcast cable with no card, not ota.

It still tunes the analog version, and the digital versions of the other channels that I've checked, just not this one. Anyone have any idea what the problem is? Thanks.

There exists a high probability that they are gone (temporarily or forever) or have moved. Do you have a second source of digital information, like a TV? A shot in the dark would be to email the station and ask them since a cable company can't send what's not there. You didn't specify if it's an OTA network or cable only channel. And are you saying 7.1 is ok, but 7.2 is gone? Last week my cable company moved QVC and made it 1080i. I'm so happy I could......

A complete rescan might be needed, but that's a lot of work unless you can be really sure it's the Sony.

My 250 has suddenly stopped tuning my channel 7 digital subchannels. I'm on comcast cable with no card, not ota.

It still tunes the analog version, and the digital versions of the other channels that I've checked, just not this one. Anyone have any idea what the problem is? Thanks.

Go to the UserCP tab and add your location. There are a lot of people on this thread and maybe one is near you.

It looks like the ATSC tuner has died in one of my Sonys. It gave me the "No Signal" message on all the digital channels that were coming in strongly on the other Sony. I did a re-scan and it picked up only the single low-power analog station that I still have. I also swapped the antenna connections from the splitter. No go.

Is a "restore factory defaults" (which would of course wipe out all the recordings) likely to change anything, or should I just go ahead and submit a repair request? Entering the model number on the Sony support site indicates that it's eligible for out-of-warranty repair at a Sony factory repair center, for a flat rate of $150.72.

JT -

I really don't know if it would help or not, but I think I would try the "restore" before I would ship it off for "repair". :o

It looks like the ATSC tuner has died in one of my Sonys. It gave me the "No Signal" message on all the digital channels that were coming in strongly on the other Sony. I did a re-scan and it picked up only the single low-power analog station that I still have. I also swapped the antenna connections from the splitter. No go.

Is a "restore factory defaults" (which would of course wipe out all the recordings) likely to change anything, or should I just go ahead and submit a repair request? Entering the model number on the Sony support site indicates that it's eligible for out-of-warranty repair at a Sony factory repair center, for a flat rate of $150.72.

JT -

I really don't know if it would help or not, but I think I would try the "restore" before I would ship it off for "repair". :o
Yes I had this happen to me too. Do a reset and then another rescan, mine came back.

Thanks! The "restore factory default" did the trick. Whew. I re-installed 1.2.21, so now I just have to wait a couple of days to get TVGOS back.

I decided I didn't want any of the recordings badly enough to take the time to dub them with my Hauppauge HD PVR.

Thanks! The "restore factory default" did the trick. Whew. I re-installed 1.2.21, so now I just have to wait a couple of days to get TVGOS back.

I decided I didn't want any of the recordings badly enough to take the time to dub them with my Hauppauge HD PVR.

I realize that it's too late now, but, for future reference, the Restore factory default was a much too drastic measure. I believe others have resolved this issue with a soft front panel reset (Pressing TV Guide, and Exit on the front panel). Another thing I would have tried first was reset user configuration which also retains all the TVGOS information. Sorry I didn't see your post earlier.

Here are three messages that address this problem:
The Symptom (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17882024#post17882024)
The suggested fix (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17882340#post17882340)
The fix worked (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17882825#post17882825)


Mark

There exists a high probability that they are gone (temporarily or forever) or have moved. Do you have a second source of digital information, like a TV? A shot in the dark would be to email the station and ask them since a cable company can't send what's not there. You didn't specify if it's an OTA network or cable only channel. And are you saying 7.1 is ok, but 7.2 is gone? Last week my cable company moved QVC and made it 1080i. I'm so happy I could......

A complete rescan might be needed, but that's a lot of work unless you can be really sure it's the Sony.

Sorry, I guess I didn't give enough info. I'm in Illinois, I get the Chicago local channel broadcasts from my Comcast cable with the qam tuner in my dvr, as well as my other basic analog cable channels.

No, I'm saying analog channel 7 is ok, but 7.1, 7.2, and 7.3 are gone. I turn to any of those channels and I get a "Now Tuning" message followed by "No Signal."

My first thought was that they may have been moved or removed, but this seems unlikely to me as 2.1, 5.1, etc. are still being picked up by the same unit, and these are your basic network stations.

Thanks for the help so far, guys.

Your 7.1, 2.1 & 5.1 are 'virtual' channels, not physical numbers. They are renumbered to a number that reflects the OTA stations old analog channel number so the general (lame) public can remember what is what as opposed to using the actual channel number. Making things more confusing and adding needless complexity to a already complex equation.

I would say what is happening, since there is already a analog channel seven, the tuner isn't allowing a a digital channel seven when it already has a analog channel seven for some unknown reason. Try a full rescan.

Sorry, I guess I didn't give enough info. I'm in Illinois, I get the Chicago local channel broadcasts from my Comcast cable with the qam tuner in my dvr, as well as my other basic analog cable channels.

No, I'm saying analog channel 7 is ok, but 7.1, 7.2, and 7.3 are gone. I turn to any of those channels and I get a "Now Tuning" message followed by "No Signal."

My first thought was that they may have been moved or removed, but this seems unlikely to me as 2.1, 5.1, etc. are still being picked up by the same unit, and these are your basic network stations.

Thanks for the help so far, guys.

So first, add your city & state to your UserCP. I use my zip code since I live in the middle of nowhere. Use www.noaa.gov and put my zip code in the box to see what I mean and where I live.

You seems to have said that the Sony DHD is the only digital device you own. As was stated, analog 7 is a physical channel number and 7.1 is a virtual channel number. You stated that you do not have a cable card. That means that the TVGOS grid shows only analog channels correctly. It shows digital channels AS IF you had a cable card. In my Sony DHG reality, channel 3 is WBRE analog, channel 76.6606 is WBRE SD 480i and channel 84.1401 is WBRE HD 1080i. But that's just me. All my QAM looks that way to Sony, Panasonic, Magnavox (mostly) and a few tuners. BTW, a small HD digital TV is really cheap. I have one in my bedroom. I think it was under $200 new (15" and 4x3 display).

Just for fun, go to channel 8. Then on the remote hit 7. Wait until the channel displays, then hit 7 again. The click is your DHG going to its antenna for OTA 7. You will get nothing. So hit 7 again and you will be back to cable 7. I can enter 84 on the remote and get nothing. Then I do channnel up to receive 84.1401, but I usually use the Favorites functionality. I have all but one analog channel disabled (my host channel, C-SPAN).

What was 7.1 and have you looked for it after a channel rescan? You seem to think that all your TV channels get together and decide on their channel assignment. I doubt they know (or care) what other channels are doing. If you really want to do something "unlikely" and waste some time, call Comcast and ask them where channel 7.1 went to. My ABC HD was 87.1 last year, now it's 106.1.

I realize that it's too late now, but, for future reference, the Restore factory default was a much too drastic measure.

Yeah, with 20/20 hindsight I realized that I should have at least tried the "Reset User Preferences" first. But it looks like the unit will be back to normal soon. Both of the TVGOS software patches came through overnight, so maybe I'll have the grid back by dinner time.

[update, 8:00 PM] I did get the grid back, and mostly-complete listings, less than 24 hours after a factory reset. Hard to beat that!

Both ads and Day 8 Listings stopped here too. They were 100% complete last night. I think this is the third or fourth time in the last month?

Pic 8128: NumSearch 5 has begun with no HostChannel set. Pic 8129 and 8130: But the number of Slicer Errors and CkSum errors has remained very low on this temporary antenna hook up, along with a very good mix of EPP’s and DPP’s etc.

Pic 8131: Back to regular house antenna hook up (with all its known problems), and this screen about 6 minutes after a”00000” reset – changed LastSCause to an “8” – had been “12” for the last three NumSearches.

The last two time ads and Listings went away it took about 3 days to come back.

The box rebooted, removed the “T” by itself (no action by me), and all is in order once again. The Digital Grid remains intact.

Houston person,
I noticed two things that is wrong with your guide.
1: Your EPP, DPP, and time zone packets should be the same count all the time. The time zone packets can be a few packets ahead or a few packets behind the EPP, DPP number.
2: You have almost 300 TVG1 drops in 5 minutes. It takes my version 9 about 2 months or more to get to that number. In the other picture you have either tens of thousands or hundred of thousands of drops. That means that the TVG1 data is being discarded.

Take a look at your VBIDL. There should be one type 70 download, one type 27 down load, one type 81 down load, and eight type 97 down loads every day.

I noticed some of the pictures that mabuttra has posted has very large number of TVG1 drops and his EPP, DPP, and time zone packets are out of sync also. My version 8 running off of analog has even numbers and my version 9 running off of TVG1 has even numbers.

The patch that sony gave you isn't functioning right and you are trying to tune in a high band VHF host channel. If you are to far from the transmitter and don't have good line of site then you will always have problems.
Are you properly set up to tune in VHF OTA signals?
If there is tall steel buildings with glass windows between you and the transmitter then you are going to have some bad multipath problems. And the farther in distance you are from the tower the more severe the multipath will become.

Houston person,
I noticed two things that is wrong with your guide.
1: Your EPP, DPP, and time zone packets should be the same count all the time. The time zone packets can be a few packets ahead or a few packets behind the EPP, DPP number.
2: You have almost 300 TVG1 drops in 5 minutes. It takes my version 9 about 2 months or more to get to that number. In the other picture you have either tens of thousands or hundred of thousands of drops. That means that the TVG1 data is being discarded.

Take a look at your VBIDL. There should be one type 70 download, one type 27 down load, one type 81 down load, and eight type 96 down loads every day.

I noticed some of the pictures that mabuttra has posted has very large number of TVG1 drops and his EPP, DPP, and time zone packets are out of sync also. My version 8 running off of analog has even numbers and my version 9 running off of TVG1 has even numbers.

The patch that sony gave you isn't functioning right and you are trying to tune in a high band VHF host channel. If you are to far from the transmitter and don't have good line of site then you will always have problems.
Are you properly set up to tune in VHF OTA signals?
If there is tall steel buildings with glass windows between you and the transmitter then you are going to have some bad multipath problems. And the farther in distance you are from the tower the more severe the multipath will become.

There are a lot of antenna issues in addition to electrical interference issues at my house, virtually all confirmed by various testing completed over the last three months. I might be able to do some additional testing in the next month, will just have to see how that turns out.

Videobruce – this question is on the unit you had repaired at Sony. Can you tune to your host station – whatever it may be? And then post pictures of these screens.

Section Statistics
ATSC Slicer
VBI Info
VBI Stats


mabuttra and jtbell are you able to do the same?



Thanks


I do have a hundred questions buried in that request – one of those is: “Skipped TVG1” was running 50% of “TVG/Tot Sections” when turned on this morning.

Sorry, I guess I didn't give enough info. I'm in Illinois, I get the Chicago local channel broadcasts from my Comcast cable with the qam tuner in my dvr, as well as my other basic analog cable channels.

No, I'm saying analog channel 7 is ok, but 7.1, 7.2, and 7.3 are gone. I turn to any of those channels and I get a "Now Tuning" message followed by "No Signal."

My first thought was that they may have been moved or removed, but this seems unlikely to me as 2.1, 5.1, etc. are still being picked up by the same unit, and these are your basic network stations.

Thanks for the help so far, guys.

I doubt they were removed, but most likely moved. There is also a possibility that they are now encrypted although that is unlikely for local broadcast channels. You can punch your zipcode in the link below and see the listing of clear-qam channels for your provider. Do you just have basic cable? Some providers install filters on the line to your house to only allow certain analog channels which is why your still getting your analog 7. The 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3 qam channels may have moved to a frequency that is being blocked by the filter.

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels_us

There are a lot of antenna issues in addition to electrical interference issues at my house, virtually all confirmed by various testing completed over the last three months. I might be able to do some additional testing in the next month, will just have to see how that turns out.

Another problem I am seeing from the pictures you and mabuttra have posted is your host state should be 0xA0 on your system statistics page. Both my version 8 and two version 9's change from 0x80 to 0xA0 when the guide finds a host channel. I checked this on both the analog and digital insterters.

My TVG1 drops on my downstairs version 9 is 906 after 4 months and my upstairs version 9 is 620 after 3 months. I also get twelve clocks sets every day on both version 9's.

Another problem I am seeing from the pictures you and mabuttra have posted is your host state should be 0xA0 on your system statistics page. Both my version 8 and two version 9's change from 0x80 to 0xA0 when the guide finds a host channel. I checked this on both the analog and digital insterters.

My TVG1 drops on my downstairs version 9 is 906 after 4 months and my upstairs version 9 is 620 after 3 months. I also get twelve clocks sets every day on both version 9's.



I have received only 3 HostChannel sets since the transition, so I am not surprised by that.

I doubt they were removed, but most likely moved. There is also a possibility that they are now encrypted although that is unlikely for local broadcast channels. You can punch your zipcode in the link below and see the listing of clear-qam channels for your provider. Do you just have basic cable? Some providers install filters on the line to your house to only allow certain analog channels which is why your still getting your analog 7. The 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3 qam channels may have moved to a frequency that is being blocked by the filter.

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels_us

I just have basic cable in the room where this box is located. I have digital and high def with a cable box in another with no problems there.

I think a rescan sounds good because some of my other channels are showing up a little funny in the guide now. How would I go about doing that?

I have received only 3 HostChannel sets since the transition, so I am not surprised by that.

I should have worded my last comment differently. I did not mean that the clock set channel resets 12 times a day.
On the version 9 there is a third page in the clocks menu that shows each time the clock was adjusted for clock drift. The clock is adjusted for drift 12 times each day using TVG1. When the version 9 is getting analog data the clock is adjusted for drift at least 6 times each day.

I never have the host channel blank out at all on my version 8 or my two version 9s. I have lost data for a day or two a couple of times in the past year but never had I had the host channel blank out in my diagnostics menu.

By the way I had a 800a reset occur this morning on my downstairs version 9. This is the second one this year we had the power go on and off for about three hours in early January and I got a 800a reset shortly after that. I am going to do a full reset of the guide tonight and start fresh. This always resolves the problem that occured with the data for the guide.

I think a rescan sounds good because some of my other channels are showing up a little funny in the guide now. How would I go about doing that?

Menu > CH +/- List > Auto Scan > Auto Scan Cable

[...]

Take a look at your VBIDL. There should be one type 70 download, one type 27 down load, one type 81 down load, and eight type 96 down loads every day.



This is what makes me think that comparing V9 to V8 data is like comparing apples to oranges. My DVR (as well as others that I have seen, based on the download schedules they have posted) has eight type 70 downloads, four type 27 downloads, four type 81 downloads and eight type 97 (not type 96) downloads every day.


I noticed some of the pictures that mabuttra has posted has very large number of TVG1 drops and his EPP, DPP, and time zone packets are out of sync also. My version 8 running off of analog has even numbers and my version 9 running off of TVG1 has even numbers.


The timezone packets are always the weakest link here. They are currently "zooming" in at an average of about two per day LOL. That's much better than six months ago when I was averaging about one every three days. My TVG1 skips are about 25% of the total. The problem with pointing out the problems with my data, is that there is nothing wrong with the data here. My DVR can build a grid in less than three days, which isn't the greatest, but it is much faster than the reports of two weeks, to a month, to never, that I have seen here. Building a grid in less than three days is no fluke. I have reset my DVR over ten times in the last year, and have gotten a grid every time in three days or less (usually less). My point here is that if there was a software problem that prevented the DVR from consistently getting a grid (like HoustonPerson has experienced), I would have seen it at some point. That is why I blame the TVGOS data, rather than the Sony, for these problems.


The patch that sony gave you isn't functioning right and you are trying to tune in a high band VHF host channel. If you are to far from the transmitter and don't have good line of site then you will always have problems.
Are you properly set up to tune in VHF OTA signals?
If there is tall steel buildings with glass windows between you and the transmitter then you are going to have some bad multipath problems. And the farther in distance you are from the tower the more severe the multipath will become.

My host channel situation is very similar to HoustonPerson's. His host channel is channel 11, mine is supposed to be channel 12 (I'll explain what I mean by that in a moment). His is 36 miles away, mine is 37 miles away. Here's the "supposed to be channel 12" explanation. My host channel was on UHF channel 19, then on June 11, it moved to channel 12. Immediately people started complaining that they couldn't get them any more. So Channel 12 filed with the FCC to move their signal back to channel 19, and a couple of months later they did. Despite being High VHF for a while, my TVGOS data didn't suffer at all when they were on channel 12. If you look at the two recovery pages I made, the 08.01.42 recovery was done when they were on channel 12 (Host channel shows as 0:12-0), and the 08.01.71 recovery was done after they moved back to channel 19 (Host channel shows as 0:19-0).

The problem I have with blaming signal strength for HoustonPerson's problem is that it seems to me that if he is losing TVGOS data due to signal strength problems his audio and video would also suffer dramatically (constant dropouts/pixelating). If you don't see dropouts in the picture then I don't see how the TVGOS data could be damaged. I haven't asked him about this, but maybe he does have visible reception issues, that he hasn't mentioned.

Mark

Another problem I am seeing from the pictures you and mabuttra have posted is your host state should be 0xA0 on your system statistics page. Both my version 8 and two version 9's change from 0x80 to 0xA0 when the guide finds a host channel. I checked this on both the analog and digital insterters.


This could explain the 3 day blanking of the host channel. I don't believe I've seen anything but 0x80 after the host channel sets. It may look for something that takes it to 0xA0. If it doesn't see it in 78 hours, it blanks the host channel and starts over. This blanking of the host channel is quite harmless, and most people don't even know it is happening. The DVR gets data whether the host channel is set or not. I don't know if this is how all the digital devices work, or just how the DHG works, I know with analog data a blank host channel means no data. It's possible that the sony engineers couldn't get this working quite right, so they force the DVR to accept data even without a host channel set.

Mark

I should have worded my last comment differently. I did not mean that the clock set channel resets 12 times a day.
On the version 9 there is a third page in the clocks menu that shows each time the clock was adjusted for clock drift. The clock is adjusted for drift 12 times each day using TVG1. When the version 9 is getting analog data the clock is adjusted for drift at least 6 times each day.


12 clock sets per day may be normal for your device, but not all devices. According to the information here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15963759#post15963759"), the clock set is based on the clock drift in the device (which will vary from device to device). Specifically the last paragraph says this:... Each device (TV, DVR) has clock drift of some amount. ...

When I watched the host channel blank the other night, it took less than 30 seconds for the first clock set to happen afterwards. Setting the GMT clock has never been an issue with these DVRs.

Mark

[...] And then post pictures of these screens.

Section Statistics
ATSC Slicer
VBI Info
VBI Stats


mabuttra and jtbell are you able to do the same?



Forgive my laziness, but you can find all of those pictures of my DVR here (http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080171/intro.htm).

Mark

Can you tune to your host station – whatever it may be? And then post pictures of these screens.

Do you mean the station that the Sony has designated as the Host Chan, or simply a station that is sending out TVGOS data?

My Sonys don't have a designated Host Chan, because after I get a channel grid, I set them to a distant ZIP code so none of my local host stations matches. They continue to download nightly program listings from whichever host station happens to be available in the direction that I've aimed my antenna.

I do this because otherwise, they would tend to try to latch onto the first host station in channel-number sequence, which happens to be the one that I receive least reliably when I have my antenna aimed in the direction that I usually leave it aimed overnight. This sometimes causes updates to be erratic, and the Host Chan often shifts from one station to another.

HI everyone, my hdd500 no longer outputs through hdmi , checked cables and hookup to another set, still no output, component works ok , unhooked component cables when trying hdmi still nothing, any clue how to resolve??? thanks.

HI everyone, my hdd500 no longer outputs through hdmi , checked cables and hookup to another set, still no output, component works ok , unhooked component cables when trying hdmi still nothing, any clue how to resolve??? thanks.

If nothing is fried or dead, you might try one of the various forms of a "reset". I would start with a simple unplug for 30 seconds, then try a front panel reset. See post #1 for more data.

HoustonPerson; I did see your post, but I can't do that right now.

Do you mean the station that the Sony has designated as the Host Chan, or simply a station that is sending out TVGOS data?

My Sonys don't have a designated Host Chan, because after I get a channel grid, I set them to a distant ZIP code so none of my local host stations matches. They continue to download nightly program listings from whichever host station happens to be available in the direction that I've aimed my antenna.

I do this because otherwise, they would tend to try to latch onto the first host station in channel-number sequence, which happens to be the one that I receive least reliably when I have my antenna aimed in the direction that I usually leave it aimed overnight. This sometimes causes updates to be erratic, and the Host Chan often shifts from one station to another.

Tune to your TVGOS station (the Host Channel does not have to be set at the time; but if it is that is better). In your case your most reliable and solid TVGOS source.................one of the things I am looking for ist error rates, skipped TVG1 and 2 percentage etc. for the most reliable and stable TVGOS source you would have.

HoustonPerson; I did see your post, but I can't do that right now.

Ok, if you are able to in the next week or so that would be good, if not then it ok too.

Forgive my laziness, but you can find all of those pictures of my DVR here (http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080171/intro.htm).

Mark


Ok, Mark I am looking at the "Step 5" for 12/30/09 because it is at the end of the cycle and is the most complete.

Thanks

This is what makes me think that comparing V9 to V8 data is like comparing apples to oranges. My DVR (as well as others that I have seen, based on the download schedules they have posted) has eight type 70 downloads, four type 27 downloads, four type 81 downloads and eight type 97 (not type 96) downloads every day.



The timezone packets are always the weakest link here. They are currently "zooming" in at an average of about two per day LOL. That's much better than six months ago when I was averaging about one every three days. My TVG1 skips are about 25% of the total. The problem with pointing out the problems with my data, is that there is nothing wrong with the data here. My DVR can build a grid in less than three days, which isn't the greatest, but it is much faster than the reports of two weeks, to a month, to never, that I have seen here. Building a grid in less than three days is no fluke. I have reset my DVR over ten times in the last year, and have gotten a grid every time in three days or less (usually less). My point here is that if there was a software problem that prevented the DVR from consistently getting a grid (like HoustonPerson has experienced), I would have seen it at some point. That is why I blame the TVGOS data, rather than the Sony, for these problems.



My host channel situation is very similar to HoustonPerson's. His host channel is channel 11, mine is supposed to be channel 12 (I'll explain what I mean by that in a moment). His is 36 miles away, mine is 37 miles away. Here's the "supposed to be channel 12" explanation. My host channel was on UHF channel 19, then on June 11, it moved to channel 12. Immediately people started complaining that they couldn't get them any more. So Channel 12 filed with the FCC to move their signal back to channel 19, and a couple of months later they did. Despite being High VHF for a while, my TVGOS data didn't suffer at all when they were on channel 12. If you look at the two recovery pages I made, the 08.01.42 recovery was done when they were on channel 12 (Host channel shows as 0:12-0), and the 08.01.71 recovery was done after they moved back to channel 19 (Host channel shows as 0:19-0).

The problem I have with blaming signal strength for HoustonPerson's problem is that it seems to me that if he is losing TVGOS data due to signal strength problems his audio and video would also suffer dramatically (constant dropouts/pixelating). If you don't see dropouts in the picture then I don't see how the TVGOS data could be damaged. I haven't asked him about this, but maybe he does have visible reception issues, that he hasn't mentioned.

Mark

YES - he said "Zooming" this is the new tech term for Sony DHG.

I have stolen a Wingard HD7694P from a relative in Dallas (driving on ice this morning was tons of fun 7AM -about 30 major wrecks). So I may be able to do some more test this week or next.

I have found a way to almost completely eliminate C ChkSum errors and greatly reduce Slicer Errors and this is all antenna related.........but so far I have had no effect on Skipped TVG1 or 2 that I can tell.

Later I got-ta Zoom out of here.

This could explain the 3 day blanking of the host channel. I don't believe I've seen anything but 0x80 after the host channel sets. It may look for something that takes it to 0xA0. If it doesn't see it in 78 hours, it blanks the host channel and starts over. This blanking of the host channel is quite harmless, and most people don't even know it is happening. The DVR gets data whether the host channel is set or not. I don't know if this is how all the digital devices work, or just how the DHG works, I know with analog data a blank host channel means no data. It's possible that the sony engineers couldn't get this working quite right, so they force the DVR to accept data even without a host channel set.

Mark

I'm just shy of positive that when my two units were using an analog host (before the digital transition), the host state field was always 0x80. A year or so ago when trying to test recovery from reset using a digital host, I left one DHG alone so I could compare with the test DHG. That was one of the fields I always checked. Also, neither of my units has experienced a full "ground zero" reset since analog went away so the 0x80 value was there when they switched themselves over to digital. Maybe things are different on TVs as opposed to DVRs?

Regarding some of the other discussion....my TVG1 Skipped is about 20% of the total, similar to Mark's. Both of my units work perfectly, except for the host field coming and going, so I'm not inclined to think "skipped" means "dropped" or some other error. With the download schedule repeating 4 times each day, perhaps it's unneeded data? I don't know. I certainly don't have reception or multipath issues. The L.A. antenna farm is atop a 5700' mountain. I'm ~13 miles SE of it and on a clear day I can see some of the towers from an upstairs window. Perfect LOS and strong signal on every channel (even a perfectly worthless LD station :D).

My EPP and DPP packets are not equal and they're not the same on the two DHGs either. Back on Jan. 27th we had a 4 hr. power outage so both units have exactly the same cold start time. Since they're on the same antenna you'd think they'd be receiving the same data counts. Not so. TimeZone packets are very elusive and erratic so the number of those isn't even in the same ballpark with EPP/DPP.

Finally, here's an oddity to ponder about what makes the host channel set. Recently my 250 went ten days with blank host and was on its 3rd host search. During that time, the 500 lost host and was on its 4th day of the 1st search. Then BAM...last Wed. both units set host at 4:10PM. Something came along that triggered that so I doubt they both stumbled upon an alternate data stream at exactly the same moment. Although, who knows? :D:D

Possumgirl,

I tend to agree. Generally the Skipped TVG1 are around 20% here too. I do not think it has any real significance, that I have been able to figure out.

[...]
I have stolen a Wingard HD7694P from a relative in Dallas (driving on ice this morning was tons of fun 7AM -about 30 major wrecks). So I may be able to do some more test this week or next.
[...]


For the record, I use a Winegard HD 7697P antenna, that I bought about a year ago. It is in the attic, and feeds an LG digital set top box, and the Sony DVR. I don't use an amplifier with it.

Mark

I'm just shy of positive that when my two units were using an analog host (before the digital transition), the host state field was always 0x80. A year or so ago when trying to test recovery from reset using a digital host, I left one DHG alone so I could compare with the test DHG. That was one of the fields I always checked. Also, neither of my units has experienced a full "ground zero" reset since analog went away so the 0x80 value was there when they switched themselves over to digital. Maybe things are different on TVs as opposed to DVRs?


You're probably right. I noticed that even in the 08.01.42 recovery pictures, that field was 0x80, even before it was receiving data (before the G* Test was run). This field just may not get updated in the Sony.


Regarding some of the other discussion....my TVG1 Skipped is about 20% of the total, similar to Mark's. Both of my units work perfectly, except for the host field coming and going, so I'm not inclined to think "skipped" means "dropped" or some other error. With the download schedule repeating 4 times each day, perhaps it's unneeded data? I don't know. I certainly don't have reception or multipath issues. The L.A. antenna farm is atop a 5700' mountain. I'm ~13 miles SE of it and on a clear day I can see some of the towers from an upstairs window. Perfect LOS and strong signal on every channel (even a perfectly worthless LD station :D).


I tend to agree about the skipped vs. dropped information. If information was dropped how would the DVR know it? I interpret skipped to mean: the data is recognized as TVG1 data, but that data either isn't for the Sony (V9 data perhaps?), or that data was already received by the Sony.


Finally, here's an oddity to ponder about what makes the host channel set. Recently my 250 went ten days with blank host and was on its 3rd host search. During that time, the 500 lost host and was on its 4th day of the 1st search. Then BAM...last Wed. both units set host at 4:10PM. Something came along that triggered that so I doubt they both stumbled upon an alternate data stream at exactly the same moment. Although, who knows? :D:D

I'll see your oddity, and raise you one oddity:

The LastASetEnd field in the attached picture shows: 2/5/10 3:15:39 GMT (2/4/10 9:15:39pm local time)

2/4/10 was a Thursday, so the host channel set at 9:15:39, on that Thursday night. What is interesting, is that I recorded the Office, & 30 Rock on that night. They are both on NBC (not my CBS host channel). The Office starts at 8:00pm, and 30 Rock follows it at 8:30pm. I have my recording set for the Office, and it is set to end 45 minutes late, so it gets 30 Rock also. That means the recording would have ended at 9:15 pm, and the host channel set 39 seconds later.

One of these two things happened:
1) When the recording ended, the DVR had time to switch back to the host channel, and get that last piece of information to set the host channel, in less than 40 seconds.

2) The DVR got all the information to set the host channel before the recording started (maybe even several hours before), but waited until the recording ended to update the screens.

You have reported, more than once, that your two DVRs are seldomly in sync when they set their host channels. It looks like the DVRs may not be telling us everything that they know, at the time that they know it. :confused:

Mark

I'll see your oddity, and raise you one oddity:

The LastASetEnd field in the attached picture shows: 2/5/10 3:15:39 GMT (2/4/10 9:15:39pm local time)

2/4/10 was a Thursday, so the host channel set at 9:15:39, on that Thursday night. What is interesting, is that I recorded the Office, & 30 Rock on that night. They are both on NBC (not my CBS host channel). The Office starts at 8:00pm, and 30 Rock follows it at 8:30pm. I have my recording set for the Office, and it is set to end 45 minutes late, so it gets 30 Rock also. That means the recording would have ended at 9:15 pm, and the host channel set 39 seconds later.

One of these two things happened:
1) When the recording ended, the DVR had time to switch back to the host channel, and get that last piece of information to set the host channel, in less than 40 seconds.

2) The DVR got all the information to set the host channel before the recording started (maybe even several hours before), but waited until the recording ended to update the screens.

Mark

I'll put my money on choice #2. I think in order for the host to set, the DHG either has to be off, or tuned to the host channel if it's on (including recording). I just checked my log and find I've never noted a host set during the evening. A couple times it has set while I was watching a recording during the day, but the tuner was on the host channel. When that happens, the host displays as 2-1 rather than 43-0.

Thanks much!! that worked! I noticed in the new menu, there was selection to format the hard drive. I realize that HDD500 used 2 250gig drives, but has anyone tried plugging in one 500gig and formatting it?



Turn on your DVR. On the DVR's remote press this key:

Menu (this brings up the menu)

Now press these buttons in sequence. As each button is pressed there is nothing on the screen that changes, so just keep pressing each button one after the other. There is no time constraint either, you can wait several seconds between each button press if you want.

Screen/Mode (this is a single button on the upper left side of the remote)
9 (the 9 key)
0 (the 0 key)
1 (the 1 key)
2 (the 2 key)

The menu should now have changed to a different menu. The top item is "Demo Mode". Select this item, and in the next screen verify it is set to off. If Demo Mode is set to on, you will have the symptoms that you are describing.

Mark

Thanks much!! that worked!


I wish I could take credit for that, but I have to refer you to this message (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17094723#post17094723) posted on 08/31/2009. In that message kwg told "someone" how to fix that same problem. That someone was you! He told you what was wrong with your DVR over 6 months ago. All I did was cut to the chase, and tell you exactly what buttons to push.


I noticed in the new menu, there was selection to format the hard drive. I realize that HDD500 used 2 250gig drives, but has anyone tried plugging in one 500gig and formatting it?

No, the Sony drives have to be prepared in a certain way (special formatting, or file system?) before they can be used in the DVR. Only Sony knows how to do that.

Mark

I'll put my money on choice #2. I think in order for the host to set, the DHG either has to be off, or tuned to the host channel if it's on (including recording).


I guess I should tell you the rest of the story... Before recording The Office at 8:00pm that night, my DVR recorded Survivor from 7:00pm to 8:00pm. That recording was on my host channel. It's possible it acquired the host channel data during the first recording, but waited until all the recordings stopped to report that the host channel set.


I just checked my log and find I've never noted a host set during the evening. A couple times it has set while I was watching a recording during the day, but the tuner was on the host channel. When that happens, the host displays as 2-1 rather than 43-0.

That's an interesting observation, I created a readme file to go along with the picture that I posted. In the readme file, I commented that it was unusual for the host channel to set so late in the evening. The latest time that I saw previously was 5:45pm, which is 20 minutes after the last download of the day ended.

Mark

Still, thanks anyway....them damn 'senior moments' must be catching up to me:o, i vaguely remember asking before but do not remember getting any answer:eek:


I wish I could take credit for that, but I have to refer you to this message (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17094723#post17094723) posted on 08/31/2009. In that message kwg told "someone" how to fix that same problem. That someone was you! He told you what was wrong with your DVR over 6 months ago. All I did was cut to the chase, and tell you exactly what buttons to push.



No, the Sony drives have to be prepared in a certain way (special formatting, or file system?) before they can be used in the DVR. Only Sony knows how to do that.

Mark

For the record, I use a Winegard HD 7697P antenna, that I bought about a year ago. It is in the attic, and feeds an LG digital set top box, and the Sony DVR. I don't use an amplifier with it.

Mark

Oh wow, I just looked that one up. The 7697 has a lot more punch, and your about 37 miles?

Did you select that one, because of the attic installation? More punch to get through the roof?

Thanks

No ads, no listings and no clock since yesterday. I'm so glad I work on weekends.

Beginning next antenna tests:

The first three photos are still on the house system.
ATSC Slicer
VBI Info
VBI Stats

The last picture is the temp install of the HD7694P. I used a medium grade compass from the sporting goods store - $3. Overall they work great when outdoors; but you can get a lot of bad readings when used indoors due to the magnetic effects of the house wiring etc. The kitchen area plays the most havoc. The Compass reading I am targeting is 180-181 degrees. So this is the first and last place I tried the antenna –all seems very good with that location. Since pillows and the bed frame is the main support, just hope it does not fall over in the night. I also tried with the aluminum window blinds both open-raised and closed and it seems only to affect some of the weaker stations a little bit. The window blinds have no affect on the major HD channels.

This antenna is driving both the plasma and the Sony DVR through a splitter on a 100’ RG6 Quad. All stations on both the plasma and DVR appear to be 100% (94%) and rock solid.

Because the next NumSearch should be late today I am not doing any type of reset and will wait and see what happens.

Splitter Crazies:

The last picture is the various splitters tested - last month; across the top I will call them 1 -4, and the two Channel Masters 5 and 6.

1. The first splitter is a Tri-Quest you can buy them 2 for a $1 and the dollar store – please do not waste your time – 100% POS

2. RCA from Home Depot about $4 – Please do not waste your time.

3. CE (that’s not really the name) from MonoPrice – it is OK, but not great. IMO it picks up some interference and they can be at times intermittent when you thump them – I have tried several of them. About $3 or $4 dollars I think?

4. Winegard from Solid Signal about $6 – I have not tried this one yet; but it looks very well made.

5. Channel Master – this is the one I am using now – Solid Signal, about $6 very well made, excellent threads. I like the machining process on the threads – perfect IMO

6. Same thing except 3-way splitter instead of 2.

The Winegard and the Channel Masters were ordered from Solid Signal at the same time (saves the extra freight). You can go to the Solid Signal web site to look up the specs on each of them. I liked the “claims” that the Channel Master claimed they had, which the Winegard did not. I would assume if you had a “perfect” antenna system the Winegard would be great? But with the large amount of electrical interference on my house antenna system the Channel Master did make a significant improvement over the splitter from MonoPrice, which I had been using for the last 3 years. Based on my last month or so of testing with the splitters I can strongly recommend the Channel Master splitters. Note: The way I understand the Channel Master is for OTA and some types of Cable systems only - - The Winegard splitter has a wider signal it can handle.


One thing I can already tell the Winegard Antenna upstairs is a lot better than a Rabbit LOL

Within a week I should know if this has any affect at all on the Sony DVR?

.................

5. Channel Master – this is the one I am using now – Solid Signal, about $6 very well made, excellent threads. I like the machining process on the threads – perfect IMO

6. Same thing except 3-way splitter instead of 2.

.......................

Don't use splitter "number 6" unless you really need to split the signal three ways. The reason is that with a 3-way splitter the signal is reduced by 3.5db on one output, and by 7db on the other two outputs (because they are effectively split twice).

On picture #166, is that you crouching on the chair next to the bed?

Don't use splitter "number 6" unless you really need to split the signal three ways. The reason is that with a 3-way splitter the signal is reduced by 3.5db on one output, and by 7db on the other two outputs (because they are effectively split twice).

On picture #166, is that you crouching on the chair next to the bed?

LOL, I did not even see that..........I had to go look, it is actually a Zebra, there is also a bear, frog, and dinosaur in that crib

Oh wow, I just looked that one up. The 7697 has a lot more punch, and your about 37 miles?

Did you select that one, because of the attic installation? More punch to get through the roof?

Thanks

I had used a radio shack amplified UHF/VHF antenna for several years, and it worked great. Then after the PBS station went digital, they moved from UHF to VHF channel 8 and I immediately lost them. They are also 37 miles away, and I knew there was a good chance that I would lose my host channel when they switched to VHF. About a month later my amplified antenna started inducing noise on the VHF channels, so I went to solid signal, to shop for a new antenna. They had a page where you could enter information about your location, and where the antenna would be placed, and they would recommend an antenna. I went ahead and did it, even though I figured that they would recommend more antenna than I needed. I got the recommended antenna, and when I got it installed, I could receive the PBS station again (it is the weakest station of all the stations), so I was happy.

Mark

This is the forth in a series of test (first with the HD7694P) with different antenna scenarios. Previously, I had come to the conclusion (with three previous tests) that the house wiring (mainly kitchen area) being intertwined with the old RG59 was causing some problems regarding the signal quality to the Sony DVR.

Now after two days on this current temporary test, that seems to be a true statement. So far C CheckSum Errors are now “zero” and Slicer Errors are reduced by 50% to 80%. The skipped TVG1 remain around the 20% level, so no change there.

There is still no HostChannel set and VBIState only reaches 0x05. So this is still most likely a Houston TVGOS problem and perhaps even something with this specific DVR? During the last week I have had two peeps contact me that have lost their grid in Houston – each has access to a cable friend – so that is their fix.

Other Observations with the HD7694P hook up:

Tuesday March 23rd 7AM - Many of the stations had lost signal strength. Stations that were 100% were often around 80%, and a couple as low as 60%. I did make antenna adjustments, but yielded little results. Opening the blinds did yield about 5% improvement across the board. By 11AM, all stations had resumed 100% and have remained that way through Wednesday March 24th 1PM (time of this writing). I am able to use the signal strength meter on the Plasma which allows me to “fly” through all stations quickly (unlike the Sony), to easily determine signal strength and peak levels for each station. That is a big time saver. For the most part the changes in signal strength from one day to the next I will attribute to changes in atmospheric conditions, etc. etc.

Beaumont,TX also has a CBS station with TVGOS that is 90 miles from me at a direction of 82 degrees vs. the 180 degrees for the local CBS. That station is RF21 (6.1) and if I am lucky enough to get it, it would be only topographical – no LOS. There is a LP station locally (180 degrees) on RF 21 (21.1), and I currently receive it by 1 edge diffraction, and it floats around 50% on the Plasma. It is likely that the distance and RF conflict will prevent me from getting the RF 21 wanted? I might give that one a try in a week or so? It is very unlikely I can get it.

If I attempt the Beaumont, TX test; I can begin with an old TV and converter box routine. The converter box lists the actual RF, virtual channel, and signal strength on the same screen. If that is successful then proceed to the Sony DVR. At that point things become more problematic. I believe I can “add a channel manually” by just punching in 6.1 and it should locate the RF 21 or perhaps a scan add, is that correct? If successful I would proceed with a new zip code for Beaumont If I did get a new digital grid for Beaumont, then I may not be able to get a digital grid back for Houston – and would have to revert back to the Artec – I prefer not, since I am running on digital grid now.

I know I can get RF50 (3.1) CBS Bryan TX at 50miles (it’s not a problem), but they do not carry TVGOS.

.............. I believe I can “add a channel manually” by just punching in 6.1 and it should locate the RF 21 or perhaps a scan add, is that correct?...........

You will need to enter the RF number "21" (or possibly "21.x") if you want to try to tune it manually. After it has been tuned the first time (and is in the Ch-Up/Ch-Dn list) you should be able to tune it as "6.1".

You will need to enter the RF number "21" (or possibly "21.x") if you want to try to tune it manually. After it has been tuned the first time (and is in the Ch-Up/Ch-Dn list) you should be able to tune it as "6.1".

Ok, thanks

Well it looks as the reason that seller sold the 2nd deck I have is this lockup/rebooting problem.
Never had any issues with the 1st deck of 3 years and no problems with the deck that I got back from Sony (so far), but this other deck is another matter.

A month or two after I did a "Clear NVM" procedure, out of the blue the deck rebooted while I was watching a recording (no recording at the time). The next day while recording (no playback at the time) when I powered it up to check the recording the unit didn't respond further. I forced a reboot, but couldn't stop the recording in progress so I decided to do a full "Repair" including wiping the HDD's even though there were unwatched programs on them. Doing another Clear NVM would only get me back to where I am now down the road.

When I did the procedure (I wasn't fast enough the 1st time) the 1st reboot returned a error message that I wound up unplugging the unit to get it to reboot. It then gave me a "INF00000001" message, then after another reboot (not forced) another message "INF10000000" appeared. After the third reboot the Welcome screen came up with all the initial setup procedures.

The whole procedure (minus the error message) took around 5-7 minutes. Obviously, it didn't low level format the HDD's in that short period of time.

All user setting were reset to default and the 'patch' was deleted and the original firmware was in place. (So much for Sony's statement that the firmware upgrade is not reverse-able.)

Anyway, to continue the 'fun', I did the dreaded 'Artec jump start' procedure and it didn't work. After the first 24 hours, I didn't even have the clock, all the screens were basically full of zero's just as they are from scratch. I only had the Artec feeding the recorder on the CATV input. No antenna. I decided to move the Artec feed to the OTA input and place the straight CATV feed to the CATV input. 24 hours later I got the clock and the 1st firmware patch, but no OTA lineup ID.

IFAIC, Rovi changed something since 6-8 months ago I had listings in 12 hours using the Artec and both inputs connected. Someone else in my TV market with the same deck had problems getting off 1st base also. I wonder just how many times the actual firmware data is sent. I would like to assume it might be only once a day, or even every other day to reduce the payload of just the listings data.

Why this firmware has to be reloaded every time the system is reset is a real bad idea. A waste of time and network resources. While I understand the need to start from scratch on occasion, surely not every time.

BTW, the two other deck's listings have been fine except for a occasional 8th day of 'No listings".

HoustonPerson; Not to get OT, but the big change with 'splitters' are the improved versions that have soldered backs as opposed to the cheaper 'glued' backs. This increases the shielding level and makes for a better all around product. Blonder Tongue (for example) sells solder backed taps and splitters through CATV distributors and suppliers. There is NO need to pay more that $3. for a simple 2-way splitter!

BTW, those $4. splitters can be had for $.50. ;)

BTW, those $4. splitters can be had for $.50. ;)

http://www.blondertongue.com/distribution/spltDirTap.pdf

Do you have an economical sourcing for the SXRS-2 and others on that page? (those seem to match spec wise the channel master........and a few pages in the book list the purely passive ones like the winegard splitters)......but if they are 50 cent that would be kewl

Yes the glues backs are bummers, the first two in my pictures are glued which are many of the problems.........the CE from monoprice is "snapped" pieces and very inconsistent quality some work, some are dead or flicker.

Thanks

IFAIC, Rovi changed something since 6-8 months ago I had listings in 12 hours using the Artec and both inputs connected. Someone else in my TV market with the same deck had problems getting off 1st base also. I wonder just how many times the actual firmware data is sent. I would like to assume it might be only once a day, or even every other day to reduce the payload of just the listings data.



Are your referring to the page one info firmware? The 08.01.71/08.06.44?

In Houston those load several times a day. I have seen it reach that level on its own very quickly, very seldom longer than 2 or 3 hours.

It is also true that rovi has made adjustments (I call it fine tuning) over the last serveral months.............IMO making it overall more reliable here.

Still no solid host channels sets here.


I am correct in understanding the the unit you sent to Sony for repairs does have the .21 upgrade written to the memory chips? and is not deleted if a Reset Factory Default is completed? In other words the Sony Repair becomes a real permanent .21 upgrade?

I am correct in understanding the the unit you sent to Sony for repairs does have the .21 upgrade written to the memory chips? and is not deleted if a Reset Factory Default is completed? In other words the Sony Repair becomes a real permanent .21 upgrade?I have no idea. I assume it was flashed just as if I flashed it.Are your referring to the page one info firmware?Yes.Do you have an economical sourcing for the SXRS-2 and others on that page?I just do a search. For starters:

NSC (Nickless Schirmer & Co.)
Tech Tool Supply

PM me.

Thanks Videobruce for the sources, nice to have

[...]

I am correct in understanding the the unit you sent to Sony for repairs does have the .21 upgrade written to the memory chips? and is not deleted if a Reset Factory Default is completed? In other words the Sony Repair becomes a real permanent .21 upgrade?

The original factory firmware is stored on the hard drive in a separate partition, not in memory chips. This guy (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6668964#post6668964) found where the files are kept (read the second paragraph). Basically when you do a Restore Factory Defaults, it "upgrades" the firmware to whatever version is stored there. You see all the same information on the display that you see when you upgrade from usbstick (Verifying..., Writing..., etc.). Whenever Sony gets a unit in, they just copy the latest firmware files over the existing ones, and that becomes the version that is loaded during a Restore Factory Defaults.

Mark

I'm just shy of positive that when my two units were using an analog host (before the digital transition), the host state field was always 0x80. A year or so ago when trying to test recovery from reset using a digital host, I left one DHG alone so I could compare with the test DHG. That was one of the fields I always checked. [...]

I think you're right. I decided to connect my DVR to cable so it would get the analog data. After several days with an analog host channel, the host state has stayed at 0x80.

Mark

The original factory firmware is stored on the hard drive in a separate partition, not in memory chips. This guy (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6668964#post6668964) found where the files are kept (read the second paragraph). Basically when you do a Restore Factory Defaults, it "upgrades" the firmware to whatever version is stored there. You see all the same information on the display that you see when you upgrade from usbstick (Verifying..., Writing..., etc.). Whenever Sony gets a unit in, they just copy the latest firmware files over the existing ones, and that becomes the version that is loaded during a Restore Factory Defaults.

Mark

Mark good read thanks for the link.

Please clarify this for me.

Ok, the .21 is stored on the hard disk (not in the chips). But when Sony does put in “new hard drives” (videobruce); does that mean the .21 is in all partitions of the hard disk OR do they put back in the “original” (.05 .09 .13) for that specific DHG-HDD? So if Videobruce now does a Reset Factory Defaults it stays with .21 now?

Mark good read thanks for the link.

Please clarify this for me.

Ok, the .21 is stored on the hard disk (not in the chips). But when Sony does put in “new hard drives” (videobruce); does that mean the .21 is in all partitions of the hard disk OR do they put back in the “original” (.05 .09 .13) for that specific DHG-HDD? So if Videobruce now does a Reset Factory Defaults it stays with .21 now?

I think we can have it both ways. Let's say that Sony will load .21 onto the hard disk if doing a repair. That becomes the data read if a Reset Factory Default is performed. I can't prove it, but let's say that my factory data is .05 and that's what I get with a RFD. Then I load .13 from SpiffSpace. It doesn't overwrite .05 but is stored in a special update location. If the update location is non-zero it will be read upon a front panel reset and used as the new default. Should I do a RFD, the .13 is wiped and I'm back to .05. Now if I load .21 from USB, my active program is .21 and nothing is done to the .05 and I can load .13 over .21 with no ill effects also. Done that several times. I don't know if the update location will get upset should I try to load a lower (.13) update when the RFD is .21. I hope I never need to find out. Any help?

[QUOTE=mabuttra;18338085]This is what makes me think that comparing V9 to V8 data is like comparing apples to oranges. My DVR (as well as others that I have seen, based on the download schedules they have posted) has eight type 70 downloads, four type 27 downloads, four type 81 downloads and eight type 97 (not type 96) downloads every day.

I corrected my post to reflect type 97 not type 96. My bad:o

I have the same download schedule as you mentioned, but I am refering to the download schedule that is one or two pages to the right of that one. It is the same schedule but it shows what data gets downloaded each day. There will be a date and time next to what got downloaded. Nobody ever shows pictures of this screen.
Example, If I got six actual data downloads during the entire TVG1 download period for the day, It will also set the clock for drift about 15 seconds into each actual download. I can check this in an additional screen in the clock menu section.
Here is a link to my download schedule:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17464286&postcount=689

The timezone packets are always the weakest link here. They are currently "zooming" in at an average of about two per day LOL. That's much better than six months ago when I was averaging about one every three days. My TVG1 skips are about 25% of the total. The problem with pointing out the problems with my data, is that there is nothing wrong with the data here. My DVR can build a grid in less than three days, which isn't the greatest, but it is much faster than the reports of two weeks, to a month, to never, that I have seen here. Building a grid in less than three days is no fluke. I have reset my DVR over ten times in the last year, and have gotten a grid every time in three days or less (usually less). My point here is that if there was a software problem that prevented the DVR from consistently getting a grid (like HoustonPerson has experienced), I would have seen it at some point. That is why I blame the TVGOS data, rather than the Sony, for these problems.

I tested the analog inserter for the cheif engineer of my cable company last november and I did a full system reset of both version 8 and version 9 at10:00PM and I had a grid by 10:00AM the next morning. And in two additional days both devices had a full 8 days of listings. The longest it took to acheive a grid is around 18 hours because I did the reset in the late afternoon. I did this four seperate times and got the same results for both guides.

The data in the diagnostics screens for both versions was pretty close to each other. The only difference is the version 8 needs the two TVGOS patches.

I then took the version 8 to my sisters in chambersburg and it took around two days to get a grid and then two additional days to get the 8 days of listings. She has comcast cable and they are converting the MPEG legacy stream to analog. I tried three resets and it took a little over two days to get a grid which is the same period of time it takes your sony to get a grid.
It is worth noting that the EPP, DPP, and time zone packets where equal and that the guide never lost its host channel once set.

Because of this and other details I picked up from different posts I am basically 99.999999999% positive that the sony dhg is building its grid from the unconverted MPEG legacy stream.
If you have cable, disconnect your OTA feed, reset your guide, scan for digital channels only if you can or delete the converted legacy stream channel, and see if you can build a grid from TVG1 alone. If the cable company is converting the MPEG leagacy stream then it won't be present on the HD channel that is carrying TVG1.

Since TVG1, TVG2, and the MPEG legacy stream is available at the same time to OTA users there is no way of determining which stream you are building a grid from. I am positive that you are getting listings from TVG1 because your guide can understand that data since it is universal to both streams.

My host channel situation is very similar to HoustonPerson's. His host channel is channel 11, mine is supposed to be channel 12 (I'll explain what I mean by that in a moment). His is 36 miles away, mine is 37 miles away. Here's the "supposed to be channel 12" explanation. My host channel was on UHF channel 19, then on June 11, it moved to channel 12. Immediately people started complaining that they couldn't get them any more. So Channel 12 filed with the FCC to move their signal back to channel 19, and a couple of months later they did. Despite being High VHF for a while, my TVGOS data didn't suffer at all when they were on channel 12. If you look at the two recovery pages I made, the 08.01.42 recovery was done when they were on channel 12 (Host channel shows as 0:12-0), and the 08.01.71 recovery was done after they moved back to channel 19 (Host channel shows as 0:19-0).

The problem I have with blaming signal strength for HoustonPerson's problem is that it seems to me that if he is losing TVGOS data due to signal strength problems his audio and video would also suffer dramatically (constant dropouts/pixelating). If you don't see dropouts in the picture then I don't see how the TVGOS data could be damaged. I haven't asked him about this, but maybe he does have visible reception issues, that he hasn't mentioned.

Mark

Just because you are at the same distance from the transmitter doesn't mean that the same equipment set up will work because there is to many variables at play.
Here is a quote from TVFool:
Reception at your location is affected by many factors such as multipath, antenna gain, receiver sensitivity, buildings, and trees - which are not taken into account.
What you can't see is how much noise is HP is getting and what effect it is having on the portion of the 6 MHz channel where the TVGOS data is being carried.
TVG1 and TVG2 is carried in one part of the 6MHz channel and the MPEG legacy stream is carried in a different part of the 6MHz channel. Also I don't think there is any error correction that is carried in the three TVGOS data streams, so if noise is an issue the guide can't the data that is replaced with noise.

Here is some very good and important information from TVFools website about noise and signal strength:
The most important number to pay attention to is the Noise Margin, in the "NM(dB)" column, for each of your local channels. These values tell you if you are above or below the detection threshold for each station and by how much. Since these values represent the amount of signal "in the air" at your location, you need to have enough margin to account for building penetration, cable loss, splitters, tuner sensitivity, and other factors specific to your setup. If you take the initial NM value for a given channel, add your antenna gain, subtract all the other system losses, and still end up with a value above 0, then you should be able to detect that channel.

Another way to think about Noise Margin is that it's the total amount of noise or signal degradation that you can endure before the signal drops into an unusable state. Things like building penetration, cable loss, and splitters are just a few examples of things that might eat away at your available Noise Margin. If the Noise Margin ends up below zero after accounting for all the losses in your setup, then the channel is probably no longer watchable.

Antenna gain is the only quantity that should ever be ADDed to the NM value. Most antennas will specify their gain in dBd or simply dB, and this is the value that should be used. If an antenna's gain is specified in dBi units, then you need to subtract 2.15 in order to get the equivalent value in dBd units. If an antenna has a built-in amp, the extra gain from the amp SHOULD NOT be included as part of the antenna gain (this actually subtracts from the Noise Margin as we'll see next). Only the raw intrinsic gain of the physical antenna should be added to the Noise Margin.

Be aware that amps and pre-amps will actually cause you to lower your Noise Margin. No matter how much gain an amp or pre-amp claims, it will actually reduce your Noise Margin by the amount listed as the Noise Figure (NF) in its specs. High quality consumer-grade amps usually have a Noise Figure of around 2-3 dB. Lower quality amps or ones that do not specify a noise figure at all will probably have a Noise Figure of around 6-10 dB. This is true for both stand-alone amps as well as antennas with built-in amps. This Noise Margin degradation is caused by limited efficiency of the electronics at the input of the amp prior to the signal being boosted. The primary benefit of the amp is to overcome further NM degradation from "downstream" losses (e.g., long cable runs, splitters, tuners with poor sensitivity, etc.). In other words, you suffer the amp's Noise Figure degradation once, and can usually ignore most of the other losses that occur after it.

Link to the above information:
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=57&Itemid=78

Mark good read thanks for the link.

Please clarify this for me.

Ok, the .21 is stored on the hard disk (not in the chips). But when Sony does put in “new hard drives” (videobruce); does that mean the .21 is in all partitions of the hard disk OR do they put back in the “original” (.05 .09 .13) for that specific DHG-HDD? So if Videobruce now does a Reset Factory Defaults it stays with .21 now?

My guess is that if videobruce does a restore Factory Defaults, it will retain the 1.2.21 firmware. Previously I have read where the only units that retain the 1.2.13 firmware are units that have been sent to Sony. I bought my DVR off ebay, and it reverts to 1.2.13 firmware, which tells me that the previous owner sent the DVR into sony at some point. It makes sense that sony would install the latest firmware onto the hard drive, before shipping it back to the user.

Mark


Mark

Because of this and other details I picked up from different posts I am basically 99.999999999% positive that the sony dhg is building its grid from the unconverted MPEG legacy stream.

No, you're wrong. First, my DVR can build a grid in 24 hours using the legacy data, not 2 days. I don't know what was wrong with your sister's setup.

Second, there are only two OTA devices (that I know of) that can convert the legacy data to be used by other devices. The sony isn't one of them.

Third, although it takes up to three days for my DVR to build a grid, I've also gotten a grid in < 24 hours, and that includes a full 8 days of listings.


If you have cable, disconnect your OTA feed, reset your guide, scan for digital channels only if you can or delete the converted legacy stream channel, and see if you can build a grid from TVG1 alone. If the cable company is converting the MPEG leagacy stream then it won't be present on the HD channel that is carrying TVG1.


This won't work. The legacy stream will still be present in the digital channel. The cable equipment doesn't strip the data out.

Mark

No, you're wrong. First, my DVR can build a grid in 24 hours using the legacy data, not 2 days. I don't know what was wrong with your sister's setup.
Third, although it takes up to three days for my DVR to build a grid, I've also gotten a grid in < 24 hours, and that includes a full 8 days of listings.

I am comparing the average length of time that my RCA DLP version 8 takes to get a grid at my sisters house from comcasts converted MPEG legacy stream to the time it ususally takes you to build a grid with the sony dhgs version 8 using the .21 firmware and a OTA feed.
There is nothing wrong with her feed as Rovi stated that this is normal. And as I stated before once the guide sets the host it doesn't lose it and the EPP, DPP, and timezone packets stay equal.
Also, as soon as the guide locks onto the inserter signal it sets the host ID (0xC2) and the host state change from 0x80 to 0xA0.

Her TVGOS signal has recently developed a problem but it is related to comcast updating her headend and the guide will build a grid but it won't get any listings data. Rovi is working with comcast on the problem. The digital to analog converter is corrupting the TVGOS stream.

Second, there are only two OTA devices (that I know of) that can convert the legacy data to be used by other devices. The sony isn't one of them.

I am not talking about the sony converting the legacy stream but the sony is actually reading the MPEG legacy stream directly with out the need to convert it. This is possible because the legacy stream is encoded in MPEG and the MPEG decoder in your sony is reading the stream directly.
I think my version 8 RCA can do this also but I can't get a decent OTA signal to try it. Both my house and my sisters are to far from the host stations and don't have line of site.

I covered this in a post from last september:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17117660&postcount=525

Here is a quote from that post:
There is reference to the ability of an Mpeg decoder to decode the Legacy stream with out converting it back to analog in this article on page three:

http://www.scte.org/documents/pdf/standards/ANSI_SCTE%20127%202007.pdf

On page 3:

Quote:
[QUOTE]The VBI data transferred through the mechanism described in this document is intended to be
transcoded into the VBI of a companion video channel within an MPEG-2 Transport Stream. However,
it also is possible to transmit and transcode a VBI data stream on its own, without a companion video
channel. In addition it is possible for a decoder to interpret the data directly, without any intermediate
transcoding into the VBI.

On page 7:

Quote:
Semantics for the TVG2X_data_field
TVG2X_data_block: this field corresponds to the 32 active data bits following the clock
run-in and framing code of the TVG2X waveform, as defined in CEA 2020 [7]. Data bits
are inserted in the PES packet in the same order as they appear in the VBI.

This won't work. The legacy stream will still be present in the digital channel. The cable equipment doesn't strip the data out.
Mark

Actually the answer is no. If the legacy stream isn't being converted the stream is not given a PID number.
As the 8 vsb host channel is being recieved in the headend all the PID's that the broadcaster gave the feed are changed when the entire channel is remodulated into QAM 256. The cable company gives host channel all new PIDs to the channel including the three individual TVGOS streams.

If the cable company has equipment capable of doing the SCTE 127 conversion then the entire SCTE 127 data stream including the MPEG TVGOS legacy stream is down converted to analog directly from the 1080i HD feed.

If they can't do the conversion, like my cable company, then the legacy stream PID is removed and not carried forward since there is no device that can convert the legacy stream when it is modulated to QAM 256. The DTV Pal and the Artec can only convert the 8vsb OTA signal to analog.

I know my cable company is not sending the legacy stream on to the customer.

The PIDs for TVGOS on KYW HD is TVG1 0x7C4 and TVG2 0x7C5. The PIDs for the digital inserter installed in my headend and inserted into the feed of WYOU HD is TVG1 0x833 and TVG2 0x834.

For reference here is the download schedule for both the analog and digital downloads:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17464286&postcount=689

My guess is that if videobruce does a restore Factory Defaults, it will retain the 1.2.21 firmware. Previously I have read where the only units that retain the 1.2.13 firmware are units that have been sent to Sony. I bought my DVR off ebay, and it reverts to 1.2.13 firmware, which tells me that the previous owner sent the DVR into sony at some point. It makes sense that sony would install the latest firmware onto the hard drive, before shipping it back to the user.

Mark


Mark

Thanks Mark, that is sort of what I was thinking. Unit(s) sent into Sony “at this time” should have the .21 on all partitions of the hard disk; therefore any Reset Factory Default a user would perform would retain the .21 update.

FWIW - On Antennas with the Sony DVR

While on the temp Winegard HD antenna I went to the two Sony Menu screens that retain this information regarding reception and recorded the following:

Station RF Frequency SNR Strength Quality Stability

2.1 35 599.000 31.08 94 Good Stable
8.1 8 183.000 29.5 88-94 Good Varies
10.1 10 195.000 0.00-10.38 5-33 Below Normal Varies NP
11.1 11 201.000 28.65 88 Good Varies
13.1 13 213.000 27.68 88 Good Varies
14.1 24 533.000 29.89 94 Good Stable
20.1 19 503.000 30.81 94 Good Stable
21.1 21 515.000 10.44 5 Below Normal Varies NP
22.1 23 527.000 27.80 88 Good Varies
26.1 26 545.000 31.36 94 Good Stable
39.1 38 617.000 31.66 94 Good Stable
43.1 43 647.000 0.00 5 Below Normal Stable NP
45.1 45 659.000 31.08 94 Good Stable
47.1 48 677.000 29.14 94 Normal Varies
49.1 32 581.000 30.81 94 Good Stable
51.1 47 671.000 25.96 88 Good Stable
55.1 42 641.000 27.68 88 Good Stable
57.1 41 635.000 23.82 77 Good Varies
61.1 44 653.000 29.31 88 Good Stable
67.1 36 605.000 31.98 94 Good Stable


The NP listed above means No Picture. Generally, with at SNR of around 12 or less there was no picture. Stations with SNR of 22 or more I had a steady picture and sound. That data was pulled the morning of March 23 and due to atmospheric conditions the overall signal strength was at its lowest point.

Having a very clean antenna install I have been able to obtain virtually zero C ChkSum Errors and exceptionally low ATSC Slicer Errors. Usually you can often create one or two C ChkSun Errors just by disconnecting the Antenna feed to the Sony and hooking it back up. The perfectly clean antenna install appears to have no effect on the percentage of TVG1 or 2 received.

Jed1,

You said this:
...I am basically 99.999999999% positive that the sony dhg is building its grid from the unconverted MPEG legacy stream.

Then in the next paragraph you said this:
Since TVG1, TVG2, and the MPEG legacy stream is available at the same time to OTA users there is no way of determining which stream you are building a grid from.

I agree with the second quote. The first quote is one reason why I said you were wrong. If the second quote is right there is no way you can be "99.999999999% positive" about anything.

I am comparing the average length of time that my RCA DLP version 8 takes to get a grid at my sisters house from comcasts converted MPEG legacy stream to the time it usually takes you to build a grid with the sony dhgs version 8 using the .21 firmware and a OTA feed.

This is another reason I question your certainty about where my grid comes from. Although it takes my DVR about 3 days to get a grid, others have reported that it sometimes takes weeks to get a grid, and then there is Houston where it takes much longer than that. You can't just look at how my DVR behaves when trying to determine what data it gets a grid from. There are times when I have drawn the wrong conclusion, because I based it just on how my DVR was behaving.


There is nothing wrong with her feed as Rovi stated that this is normal. And as I stated before once the guide sets the host it doesn't lose it and the EPP, DPP, and timezone packets stay equal.
Also, as soon as the guide locks onto the inserter signal it sets the host ID (0xC2) and the host state change from 0x80 to 0xA0


More evidence against the theory that my digital data works like her analog data. Even my legacy analog data from cable, as I discussed this week, doesn't cause the host state to change from 0x80. After a week of data, my DPP, EPP, and Timezone packets are not equal. As of a few minutes ago I had 35 Timezone packets, 33 DPP packets, and 22 EPP packets. However, using the legacy data, the sony's host channel sets in less than 2 hours, and stays set 100% of the time.

Here is a quote from that post:
There is reference to the ability of an Mpeg decoder to decode the Legacy stream with out converting it back to analog in this article on page three:

In addition it is possible for a decoder to interpret the data directly, without any intermediate
transcoding into the VBI.


Look at the date on that article, 2007. The Sony was first sold in May of 2005. The design work would have been done in 2004, which is 3 years before this information was available. So this leaves two questions unanswered. Does the MPEG decoder in the Sony have the ability to decode this data? Did Sony provide the software support to handle the decoded data?


Actually the answer is no. If the legacy stream isn't being converted the stream is not given a PID number.
As the 8 vsb host channel is being recieved in the headend all the PID's that the broadcaster gave the feed are changed when the entire channel is remodulated into QAM 256. The cable company gives host channel all new PIDs to the channel including the three individual TVGOS streams.

If the cable company has equipment capable of doing the SCTE 127 conversion then the entire SCTE 127 data stream including the MPEG TVGOS legacy stream is down converted to analog directly from the 1080i HD feed.

If they can't do the conversion, like my cable company, then the legacy stream PID is removed and not carried forward since there is no device that can convert the legacy stream when it is modulated to QAM 256. The DTV Pal and the Artec can only convert the 8vsb OTA signal to analog.

I know my cable company is not sending the legacy stream on to the customer.

The PIDs for TVGOS on KYW HD is TVG1 0x7C4 and TVG2 0x7C5. The PIDs for the digital inserter installed in my headend and inserted into the feed of WYOU HD is TVG1 0x833 and TVG2 0x834.


This is good information. Although I'm confused, because your original post (the one linked to) seems to suggest that your cable company is taking all of the digital TVGOS data (except the legacy data), and converting it to analog, and sending it out on analog channels. You even mentioned that the G* Test passed the VBI Test. That isn't what happens here. The digital data coming from cable is from the QAM digital CBS. Running the G* Test will fail the VBI test because there is no VBI on a digital channel. I think we may be comparing apples and oranges again. Unfortunately I can't try recovering using only the QAM version of my Digital CBS station, because no matter what, the Sony finds the converted legacy data on analog channel 12. I didn't do a channel scan on cable after enabling it last week, and I turned off analog 12 in the TV Guide. Then I blanked the host channel to force it to find a new host channel, but it went right back to analog channel 12. I could try forcing the host channel, but that has always had mixed results. This is a bad time of year to reset the DVR, since my recordings are at a peak. I probably should wait until the end of the TV season to do anything more. Besides I'm pretty sure someone else has been able to get a grid from their QAM CBS station (WS7511 maybe?).

Mark

FWIW - On Antennas with the Sony DVR

While on the temp Winegard HD antenna I went to the two Sony Menu screens that retain this information regarding reception and recorded the following:

Station RF Frequency SNR Strength Quality Stability

2.1 35 599.000 31.08 94 Good Stable
8.1 8 183.000 29.5 88-94 Good Varies
10.1 10 195.000 0.00-10.38 5-33 Below Normal Varies NP
11.1 11 201.000 28.65 88 Good Varies
13.1 13 213.000 27.68 88 Good Varies
14.1 24 533.000 29.89 94 Good Stable
20.1 19 503.000 30.81 94 Good Stable
21.1 21 515.000 10.44 5 Below Normal Varies NP
22.1 23 527.000 27.80 88 Good Varies
26.1 26 545.000 31.36 94 Good Stable
39.1 38 617.000 31.66 94 Good Stable
43.1 43 647.000 0.00 5 Below Normal Stable NP
45.1 45 659.000 31.08 94 Good Stable
47.1 48 677.000 29.14 94 Normal Varies
49.1 32 581.000 30.81 94 Good Stable
51.1 47 671.000 25.96 88 Good Stable
55.1 42 641.000 27.68 88 Good Stable
57.1 41 635.000 23.82 77 Good Varies
61.1 44 653.000 29.31 88 Good Stable
67.1 36 605.000 31.98 94 Good Stable


The NP listed above means No Picture. Generally, with at SNR of around 12 or less there was no picture. Stations with SNR of 22 or more I had a steady picture and sound. That data was pulled the morning of March 23 and due to atmospheric conditions the overall signal strength was at its lowest point.

Having a very clean antenna install I have been able to obtain virtually zero C ChkSum Errors and exceptionally low ATSC Slicer Errors. Usually you can often create one or two C ChkSun Errors just by disconnecting the Antenna feed to the Sony and hooking it back up. The perfectly clean antenna install appears to have no effect on the percentage of TVG1 or 2 received.

Houston Person,
This article should interest you because it is directly related to your reception issue with tuning in a VHF OTA channel in houston.
http://www.tvnewscheck.com/articles/2010/03/25/daily.1/

This portion of the article is directly related to your problem:

To reach viewers in their homes, the broadcasters are also telling them to dump their rabbit ears and get out the ladder.

Indoor reception is problematic for stations on any channel as William Meintel, a partner in Meintel, Sgrignoli & Wallace, discovered when his consulting firm was hired to tackle reception problems for VHF stations in Chicago, Philadelphia, Baltimore and Houston and a UHF signal in Milwaukee.

"We found most all of these problems were with indoor reception," Meintel said."A lot of these antennas that people have for indoor use are pretty much worthless."

Impulse noise has also plagued VHF reception, he said. Any number of electrical devices, including, ironically, flat-screen TVs, can cause picture dropouts, blocking and pixelization, he said.

"We even had some problems with amplified antennas where the amplifier was doing more harm than good," he said.

Indoor reception problems should have been anticipated, Meintel said. After all, the FCC assigned digital channels to stations based on the assumption that viewers would be tuning in with antennas 30 feet above the ground.

Houston Person,
This article should interest you because it is directly related to your reception issue with tuning in a VHF OTA channel in houston.
http://www.tvnewscheck.com/articles/2010/03/25/daily.1/

This portion of the article is directly related to your problem:

The article has no application to me. My only issue is TVGOS service in Houston. The sourcing of the article is somewhat suspect, they claim to be “broadcaster” oriented; but they do admit to being advertiser driven. Perhaps they are attempting to “sell services” to broadcasters? Overall, it is political in nature. But the FCC does have its own political agenda.

[QUOTE]


The PIDs for TVGOS on KYW HD is TVG1 0x7C4 and TVG2 0x7C5. The PIDs for the digital inserter installed in my headend and inserted into the feed of WYOU HD is TVG1 0x833 and TVG2 0x834.

For reference here is the download schedule for both the analog and digital downloads:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17464286&postcount=689

I'm sorry to ask you to 'dumb it down' for me, but are you saying that you can get TVGOS from your digital feed of KYW and/or WYOU? There's a good probability I can get OTA WYOU with a high gain antenna, and lately my cable feed is very unreliable. Thanks.

I'm sorry to ask you to 'dumb it down' for me, but are you saying that you can get TVGOS from your digital feed of KYW and/or WYOU? There's a good probability I can get OTA WYOU with a high gain antenna, and lately my cable feed is very unreliable. Thanks.

According to Rabbit Ears (http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/), WYOU does not transmit TVGOS OTA (KYW does however). I believe what Jed1 is saying is that Rovi is sending the TVGOS data directly to the cable station (or maybe they get the data from the KYW feed), and they are inserting the data into their cable feed. If I recall I think you get your TVGOS the same way, only your cable system has the "legacy" converter box, which Jed1's apparently doesn't.

Mark

According to Rabbit Ears (http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/), WYOU does not transmit TVGOS OTA (KYW does however). I believe what Jed1 is saying is that Rovi is sending the TVGOS data directly to the cable station (or maybe they get the data from the KYW feed), and they are inserting the data into their cable feed. If I recall I think you get your TVGOS the same way, only your cable system has the "legacy" converter box, which Jed1's apparently doesn't.

Mark

Thanks for the help. I will never get an OTA signal from KYW, yet my cable feed supplies it in analog and QAM256. The nice people at WYOU told me they are not considering any form of TVGOS. I'm really tempted to take one of my DHG units over to my sister's house and see if I can check out her cable feed since it should be the same as Jed1. Just for fun.

[QUOTE=Jed1;18387063]

I'm sorry to ask you to 'dumb it down' for me, but are you saying that you can get TVGOS from your digital feed of KYW and/or WYOU? There's a good probability I can get OTA WYOU with a high gain antenna, and lately my cable feed is very unreliable. Thanks.

The answer is no. Rovi gave my division of SE the digital inserter to install in the headend in november. It went online in mid December

Thanks for the help. I will never get an OTA signal from KYW, yet my cable feed supplies it in analog and QAM256. The nice people at WYOU told me they are not considering any form of TVGOS. I'm really tempted to take one of my DHG units over to my sister's house and see if I can check out her cable feed since it should be the same as Jed1. Just for fun.

Nexstar, owners of WYOU and WBRE, told me this about two years ago. I did contact the engineer of WVIA a while back but he said that decision would be made by mangement but they never got back to me.

Also on an off topic subject, Nexstar permanently shut down all their translators in central and eastern PA about three weeks ago. A lot of people in schuylkill county are complaining because they no longer can get their OTA feed.

If you do take one of your dhg's to your sisters house the analog inserter feed is on analog channel 4 WVIA and the digital inserter is on 116-1 WYOU HD. For cablecards the analog inserter is on channel 81 and the digital inserter is on 512.

According to Rabbit Ears (http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/), WYOU does not transmit TVGOS OTA (KYW does however). I believe what Jed1 is saying is that Rovi is sending the TVGOS data directly to the cable station (or maybe they get the data from the KYW feed), and they are inserting the data into their cable feed. If I recall I think you get your TVGOS the same way, only your cable system has the "legacy" converter box, which Jed1's apparently doesn't.

Mark

Hi Mark,
Joe Kustra and I have the same cable company but we are a served by different divisions. His head end has a actual analog TVGOS inserter and my head end has both a analog TVGOS inserter and a digital TVGOS inserter. These inserters are the actual devices that are installed in the broadcast stations.
Neither division has the ability to convert the SCTE 127 MPEG legacy TVGOS stream to analog.

Also my division of Service Electric carries the Philadelphia broadcast stations along with the Wilkes Barre stations which enables me to have access to the digital TVGOS feed from KYW HD. This is how I have been getting digital TVGOS since WVIA shutdown their analog feed on February 5th of last year. The only catch is I have to use a zip code from the Philadelphia DMA.

I made an intereseting discovery though. I used a Allentown zip code 18101 in my TVGOS set up and I got to select from three different cable card line ups, Service Electric and RCN of Allentown and RCN of Philadelpia, and they all had the same 655 channel list. I tried some Philadelphia zip codes and got cablecard line ups from RCN, Comcast, and Verizon Fios and they all had the same 655 channel list. So it seems to me that their is only one channel list for each DMA. This is for the KYW inserter and the only drawback is that I have to edit the entire channel line up to match mine.
Currently the channel list for the Wilkes Barre DMA is only 554 channels which is what it has been for three years. I've tried to get Rovi to add the missing channels to the list but they refused to do so.

If you have cable, disconnect your OTA feed, reset your guide, scan for digital channels only if you can or delete the converted legacy stream channel, and see if you can build a grid from TVG1 alone. If the cable company is converting the MPEG leagacy stream then it won't be present on the HD channel that is carrying TVG1.


Here is my attempt at doing this (short of resetting the guide). Saturday evening, I tuned to my CBS digital station on cable (channel 114.5), I did a force host on that channel and turned the DVR off. Sunday morning I checked and the host channel had set, but it was the analog CBS station (the force host didn't take). I recorded the NCAA games that were on Sunday afternoon, so before they started, I blanked my host channel, just before the recording started. My plan was to wait until the recording ended, and then do another force host, if the host channel hadn't set yet. Unfortunately I was doing something else when the recording ended, and by the time I looked at the DVR, the host channel had already set again to the analog CBS station. I blanked the host channel again, and decided to just leave the DVR on overnight. Monday morning there was still no host channel so I left it on all day. When I got home Monday evening, the host channel had set to the channel I wanted. Everything looks the same as it does with my OTA host channel (skipped TVG1 still about 25%, Host State 0x80, etc.). This morning I did a soft front panel reset to clear all the packet counts so I could see how they progressed today. Tonight when I looked, the packet counts are pretty much like in all my other pictures. Timezone packets are 0, which is no surprise.

On another subject. Last week I ran all week long with my analog host channel from cable. Before I did the force host Saturday evening, I checked my guide, and found that day seven, and day eight were both No Listing. Usually when I have the analog host channel set, I have five Download Schedules, one digital schedule, and four analog schedules. The last analog schedule is the one my analog host channel seems to use. When I checked my schedules Saturday, I only had the one digital schedule, the analog schedules were gone. This is the download schedule I have when my host channel is set to my OTA digital channel. I checked my clock channel and saw that it was set to my digital host channel instead of the analog CBS station. I then realized what was happening. Since the NCAA games were on Thursday, I spent a lot of time tuned to my OTA digital CBS station. So much time in fact that it set the clock from that station. It then must have decided it liked that station, and retrieved the download schedule from it (which didn't have the analog schedules). Without an analog schedule, my analog host channel didn't know how to download the guide data. This is a downside to the .21 firmware, since it tends to not care whether your DVR is off or on to get guide data, it increases the chance of this happening (this would only be a problem for people who are OTA + Cable, and their cable system is converting the legacy data). With the older firmware, if you never run the G* Test, then the digital data is always off, so this wouldn't happen.

Mark

Well a little more than 48 hours ago TVGOS was turned off in Houston. That lasted just under 2 hours.

Just before midnight it went to NumSearch 2, and I assume it only got to HostSUFlag of 0xe28 before the TVGOS was turned off again. I checked it this morning and there was no data coming in on the ATSC Slicer. HostSUFlag was the 0xe28.

That was about 6 hours ago. Data is now coming in again, but it must have just been turned back on. HostSUFlag is still 0xe28.

I had noticed DPPs have been coming in very fast the last 7 days or so; but on occasion the EPP’s can be “none” coming in for a 12-18 hour period.

So it looks like Rovi has been making some sort of adjustments for Houston again. Just wish they would figure it out and make it work all the time.

Well a little more than 48 hours ago TVGOS was turned off in Houston. That lasted just under 2 hours.

Just before midnight it went to NumSearch 2, and I assume it only got to HostSUFlag of 0xe28 before the TVGOS was turned off again. I checked it this morning and there was no data coming in on the ATSC Slicer. HostSUFlag was the 0xe28.

That was about 6 hours ago. Data is now coming in again, but it must have just been turned back on. HostSUFlag is still 0xe28.

I had noticed DPPs have been coming in very fast the last 7 days or so; but on occasion the EPP’s can be “none” coming in for a 12-18 hour period.

So it looks like Rovi has been making some sort of adjustments for Houston again. Just wish they would figure it out and make it work all the time.

I don't think it's just Houston. My TVGOS feed has been very unstable for most of this month. Something is happening, and that is usually a bad thing.

HostSUFlag is still 0xe28. No EPP’s in over two days.

Days 7 and 8 are about 40% No Listings, mostly the major HD primary stations.

But the Sony Box is still receiving program changes for Days 1 and 2, and received new data last night.

Day 1 – today Thursday morning has a “New” CSI that was not there last night, so I added the red dot Pic 8276. And I happened to notice the time change on The Mentalist, there was none for CSI – Pic 8277.

PIc 8278 – the information panel shows the correct time adjustment, see top of screen for time.

Pic 8279 – the scheduled CSI program did not, but The Mentalist did? So I adjusted CSI for one minute early. Picture is prior to adjustment.

I am not doing any resets at this time; since it does receive some data and hoping Rovi is still attempting to make some sort of HostChannel sets adjustments?

Sony DVR is still on the temp Winegard antenna.

HostSUFlag is still 0xe28. No EPP’s in over two days.

Days 7 and 8 are about 40% No Listings, mostly the major HD primary stations.

But the Sony Box is still receiving program changes for Days 1 and 2, and received new data last night.

Day 1 – today Thursday morning has a “New” CSI that was not there last night, so I added the red dot Pic 8276. And I happened to notice the time change on The Mentalist, there was none for CSI – Pic 8277.

PIc 8278 – the information panel shows the correct time adjustment, see top of screen for time.

Pic 8279 – the scheduled CSI program did not, but The Mentalist did? So I adjusted CSI for one minute early. Picture is prior to adjustment.

I am not doing any resets at this time; since it does receive some data and hoping Rovi is still attempting to make some sort of HostChannel sets adjustments?

Sony DVR is still on the temp Winegard antenna.

I'm pretty sure Rovi is playing catch-up with the networks a lot lately. I just saw the updates for CBS tonight in the 9pm - 11pm EDT time slot also. All of March the listings had to follow sports. I wouldn't count on stable listings anymore. The 'seasons' are long gone. Yet this 'every weekend' listing scramble reminds me of when TV just went down every weekend at 2am for maintenance. Things change yet they stay the same. The 'new normal' sucks, but .... you know the rest. All I need is 200 packets an hour to be happy.

Well the pattern of HostSUFlag is changing a little bit here.

Finally got “one” EPP and one missing bit for the first section – an ”f”. Still need two bits for the second section.

Since transition I have seen a lot of 0xe68 and 0xf78; but late today a 0xf68 has been in place a couple of hours. At least that is some change of over 2 days of just 0xe28.

The 0xf68 is just odd – don’t know that I have ever seen it line out that way…………….maybe that is the “norm” for a upcoming HostChannel Set – if it ever gets here. HA!

Hi Mark,

Here is answers to some of your questions.

Look at the date on that article, 2007. The Sony was first sold in May of 2005. The design work would have been done in 2004, which is 3 years before this information was available. So this leaves two questions unanswered. Does the MPEG decoder in the Sony have the ability to decode this data? Did Sony provide the software support to handle the decoded data?

The standard for MPEG 2 was finalized in 1995 so any device made since then is built to this standard.

You even mentioned that the G* Test passed the VBI Test. That isn't what happens here. The digital data coming from cable is from the QAM digital CBS. Running the G* Test will fail the VBI test because there is no VBI on a digital channel. I think we may be comparing apples and oranges again.

Actually I am comparing apples to apples. Take a look at your own pictures from your procedure (http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080142/step1.htm) and you will see that you are getting the same results that I was. The only difference is that I tried this with just cable only because I have no access to a OTA TVGOS signal. And also I did'nt have access to the converted legacy stream because my cable company doesn't have the equipment to do the conversion.
Here are your pictures of the G test running:
http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080142/images/009.jpg
http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080142/images/022.jpg
http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080142/images/035.jpg

This is a bad time of year to reset the DVR, since my recordings are at a peak. I probably should wait until the end of the TV season to do anything more.
Here is my attempt at doing this (short of resetting the guide).

There is no hurry anyway. I'm sure TVGOS isn't going any where for a while at least.;):)
When you do get a chance make sure you do a full reset of the guide with your cable hooked up only and disconnect your OTA feed.

I wasted my whole summer last year messing around with my version 8 trying different methods to get it running off of TVG1 and failed. I couldn't even sell the tv for enough to pay for the repair costs so I finally gave it to my sister, because I only have a 1100 square feet of living space an I had no room for three 50 inch HDTVs.:(

Fellow DC area owners who get their TVGOS OTA, do you have normal data? No mentions of any issues on the DC area HDTV forum.

Just got back from a spring break vacation, and the clock is haywire, there are listings but I have no idea what day they are from (since the clock is wrong), and all reception flags, VBI status, etc. are all reset back to 0 as if after a complete reset.

Nothing happening on the ATSC slicer screen, though I haven't done the G Test first before checking, just in case.

The schedule section of the TV guide shows upcoming shows from Mar 20+ onward, as if the clock stopped then. No shows were recorded while we were gone. Gotta love this hi tech stuff.

Would not turn on when I tried to check things out until I did a soft reset, either. After that, the clock was blank and then immediately reset, but to something just as far off as it was before I turned it on.

As before when this happened, I'd like to know if there's even data out there before trying drastic measures.

Hi Mark,

Here is answers to some of your questions.
[...]
The standard for MPEG 2 was finalized in 1995 so any device made since then is built to this standard.



I guess I'm asking the wrong questions then. The MPEG 2 standard may have been finalized in 1995, but the "legacy" data format would have to be defined by GemStar. So I'm questioning whether GemStar had already defined the legacy data format in 2004, since the documents that talk about the legacy TVGOS data seem to be dated 2007, or later. It would be impossible for Sony to support direct reading of the legacy data, if the data format had not been nailed down in 2004.


Actually I am comparing apples to apples. Take a look at your own pictures from your procedure (http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080142/step1.htm) and you will see that you are getting the same results that I was. The only difference is that I tried this with just cable only because I have no access to a OTA TVGOS signal. And also I did'nt have access to the converted legacy stream because my cable company doesn't have the equipment to do the conversion.
Here are your pictures of the G test running:
http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080142/images/009.jpg
http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080142/images/022.jpg
http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/080142/images/035.jpg


You almost caught me there. Those pictures are the old firmware (TVGOS base version 08.01.42). The G* Test in the new firmware (TVGOS base version 08.01.71) won't pass the VBI test on a digital TVGOS channel. It only passes when tuned to an analog TVGOS channel. I actually had forgotten about the old firmware's behavior.

Mark

[...]and all reception flags, VBI status, etc. are all reset back to 0 as if after a complete reset.

[...]

Would not turn on when I tried to check things out until I did a soft reset, either.

I'm not in DC, but I thought I'd mention a couple of things. First, if you aren't using the 1.2.21 firmware, you won't get anything until you run the G* Test. Second, the reason your screens are all zeroes are because of the soft reset you did (it doesn't take a complete reset to zero out those screens). I'd give it overnight, then check and see if it is getting data. It sounds like your DVR just may have gotten hosed up while you were gone, and it stopped receiving data. If it still isn't getting data in the morning, I'd wait a few days before trying anything drastic. If the station isn't sending TVGOS data out, then a reset will just make it worse.

Mark

Friday Morning:

Two EPP’s received last night and at least one missing bit. HostSUFlag to 0xf78.

Day 8 only two No Listings. Sunday through Thursday replaced with all new data, programs, listings etc.

Day 1 Friday – NBC is “No Title” for this evening?

Friday Morning:

Two EPP’s received last night and at least one missing bit. HostSUFlag to 0xf78.

Day 8 only two No Listings. Sunday through Thursday replaced with all new data, programs, listings etc.

Day 1 Friday – NBC is “No Title” for this evening?

If it makes you feel better, I have no ads and no listings for day 8. I'm pretty sure day 8 will stay blank until it gets to day 3. That's been the pattern. Unless the holidays mess things up.

First, if you aren't using the 1.2.21 firmware, you won't get anything until you run the G* Test...

Second, the reason your screens are all zeroes are because of the soft reset you did (it doesn't take a complete reset to zero out those screens)...

I'd give it overnight, then check and see if it is getting data. It sounds like your DVR just may have gotten hosed up while you were gone, and it stopped receiving data...
Mark

Thanks. I am using the 1.2.21 firmware. I read somewhere, though, that sometimes the ATSC slicer screen doesn't show data coming even though it really is, but doing the G* Test can wake it up?

I wasn't aware of the soft reset zeroing out everything. Does it zero out the HostSUFlags as well and start searching from scratch?

Anyway, this morning, the clock is back to normal, and data is coming in. Listings are 80-90% "No Listing". We'll see what happens over the next few days.

I assume there's nothing to look for in all the diag info (esp after resetting) that would explain why it stopped working while we were gone?

I haven't gotten a timezone packet since the reset, and my HostSUFlags, as expected, is 0xd78... which seems to mean that's the only thing missing. Luckily it must have retained timezone info for now so it can keep working.

In case you noticed:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=18423954&postcount=8879

Thanks. I am using the 1.2.21 firmware. I read somewhere, though, that sometimes the ATSC slicer screen doesn't show data coming even though it really is, but doing the G* Test can wake it up?


That is right, you can run the G* Test if the ATSC slicer isn't showing data. Then go back to the ATSC slicer screen.


I wasn't aware of the soft reset zeroing out everything. Does it zero out the HostSUFlags as well and start searching from scratch?


Yes it blanks the HostSUFlags field, but won't start a new NumSearch unless your host channel is blank (a soft reset won't blank the host channel). The HostSUFlags will still update as the data is received.


Anyway, this morning, the clock is back to normal, and data is coming in. Listings are 80-90% "No Listing". We'll see what happens over the next few days.


I would hope your listings would be pretty much filled in by now.


I assume there's nothing to look for in all the diag info (esp after resetting) that would explain why it stopped working while we were gone?


No, even if the soft reset hadn't cleared all the counts you couldn't really tell what was wrong.


I haven't gotten a timezone packet since the reset, and my HostSUFlags, as expected, is 0xd78... which seems to mean that's the only thing missing. Luckily it must have retained timezone info for now so it can keep working.

Despite the fact that I obsess about the HostSUFlags, it really isn't important if you already have a grid (getting a host channel isn't important either). You didn't lose your timezone information or it would have had to get a timezone packet before the clock would be correct.

Mark

In case you noticed:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=18423954&postcount=8879Well, I never would have noticed. I use the Proxomitron filter, and have never seen an ad on the AVS site (and most other sites for that matter). Am I cheating them out of their revenue?

Any antenna genius out there?

I am trying to get CBS in Beaumont TX because they are the closest TVGOS station to me; other than KHOU in Houston. At least I think that is correct?

KHOU is about 35 miles and of course comes in perfect except for the missing “one” bit my Sony DVR does not get for Host Channel Set. So far ROVI has not helped.

KDFM-CBS RF 21 (6.1) is 90 miles away at 82 degrees. That RF does conflict with a local RF 21 low power station at 181 degrees – that is the normal antenna aim for all my stations.

With the antenna aimed at 82 degrees; these are the stations I get – they are dull grey because they are not set up in the tuner, but just directly tuned. The RF 21 is bold, because it is in the tuner – but of course I do not get it because that station is located 181 degrees and not the 82 degrees I am aiming for.

Pic 8284: RF7 (7.1) KPLC-DT at 150 miles

Pic 8285: RF 12 (12.1) KBMT-A ABC 96 miles (comes and goes)

Pic 8286: RF 16 (15.1) KADN Lafayette, LA - FOX ?

Pic 8287: RF 20 (18.1) LPBHD Baton Rouge - Are you kidding?

Pic 8288: RF 21 The Beaumont station I am after but it don’t work – conflict with local about 90 miles

Pic 8289: RF 28 (3-1) KATC-HD Oh great another Lafayette station.

Pic 8291: RF 30 (29.1) KVHP-HD FOX in Lake Charles LA long way off.

Pic 8292: RF 33 (34.3) KITU-D3 - 94 miles away Just the other side of Beaumont
Pic 8294: RF 40 (4.1) KBTV NBC 90 miles Beaumont

Pic 8296: RF 50 (3.1) KBTX-DT 50 miles at 314 degrees (while antenna at 82 degrees)

Pic 8299: WMAU-HD PBS in Mississippi?


Basically, I picked up stations almost due east of here on I-10. Winegard is a good antenna – but still no CBS/PBS with TVGOS.

To save time I only posted a few of the pics.

Guess tomorrow I will try Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio? Any other TVGOS to choose from?

Per HP's request, here are diagnostic screen shots of my three decks.

Photos' labeled "A" are from the 500 that has the new HDD's.
"B" are from my original 250.
"C" are from the 500 with the 'lock up' issue that also has problem with listings. No listings to be exact with no ads.

Notice the "host" channel listing. CATV channel '3' is the host channel where the data is coming from. 43 is the OTA host station.

Part 2
The first two decks have been up and running for some time now. The 3rd problem deck started from scratch two weeks ago. hence the low counts.

Part 3

Part 4

Notice the VBI State on the problem deck.
Also notice the dates of LastASetEnd, LastSrchSt & Last SrchEnd between the 1st & 2nd decks.

Part 5

Per HP's request, here are diagnostic screen shots of my three decks.

Photos' labeled "A" are from the 500 that has the new HDD's.
"B" are from my original 250.
"C" are from the 500 with the 'lock up' issue that also has problem with listings. No listings to be exact with no ads.

Notice the "host" channel listing. CATV channel '3' is the host channel where the data is coming from. 43 is the OTA host station.

Before giving up on unit "C", tune it to your OTA host channel (17.1 I believe), then go to the ATSC slicer screen, verify that it is getting data, and leave the DVR turned on for a few hours from about 9:00am to 12:00pm (that should cover two ID 70 download periods). Then see if the listings fill in. You have previously said (several months ago) that you couldn't get listings from cable channel 3 any more, which, I believe, is why you bought an Artec. Unit "B" is also using channel 3 as its host, but it just set that host a couple of hours before you took the picture. Unit "B" shows data in the host column of the ATSC slicer screen which means that it has had a digital host in the past.

Mark

One thing I forgot to add, "C" has not had a OTA feed. Only CATV, whereas the the other two have both. I have added a OTA feed to the third deck.
Our OTA 'Host' is 43.2 (virtual 17.2) which is available on Cable channel three. Since the system only reverts back to the analog host, I didn't bother trying to force the OTA digital Host directly.

What about that "VBI State" on the problem deck?

One thing I forgot to add, "C" has not had a OTA feed. Only CATV, whereas the the other two have both. I have added a OTA feed to the third deck.
Our OTA 'Host' is 43.2 (virtual 17.2) which is available on Cable channel three. Since the system only reverts back to the analog host, I didn't bother trying to force the OTA digital Host directly.

What about that "VBI State" on the problem deck?

The VBI State isn't an issue. At various times, with the host channel set, I have seen values of 0x06, 0x07, 0x08 and 0x0c. The last time I saw 0x0c was a couple of weeks ago when I changed my setup to OTA + Cable, and it set the analog host. I'm curious to know since unit "B" set the analog host yesterday, if it has day 8 listings this morning?

Mark

One thing I forgot to add, "C" has not had a OTA feed. Only CATV, whereas the the other two have both. I have added a OTA feed to the third deck.
Our OTA 'Host' is 43.2 (virtual 17.2) which is available on Cable channel three. Since the system only reverts back to the analog host, I didn't bother trying to force the OTA digital Host directly.

What about that "VBI State" on the problem deck?



Videobruce, thanks for the pics. They are very helpful.

Box C VBIState; isn’t that the “start over” phase (or one of them). Like it is trying to start over and do something. Box B is just happy and works. Box A I think has had some magical stuff done to it at the factory to just make it work better.

That 0x0c means it is either finished doing something OR it is getting ready (or wants to get ready) to do something. The picture below is when my Sony DVR kept changing back and forth from digital to analogue during a two week spell before the “final” transition.

I almost think that my Sony DVR with its .05 and/or other reasons cannot get itself up to par. Anyway late yesterday it did a reboot from ROVI and now Day 8 No Listings and No Ads and VBI is stuck on 0x05 AGAIN!

I was unable to pick up any other Texas Stations with TVGOS so have given up on the antenna experiments – at least for now. All the stations I did find with TVGOS conflicted with local RF’s so that was a “no-win” situation.

I think on my next trip to Dallas I may just take the Sony DVR with me, and see what it does there.

The "B" deck didn't have next Thursdays listings (day 5) yesterday. I don't remember if the "A" deck had Saturdays listings (day 8) yesterday.

I was looking for differences in those screens (other than the host channel) and I thought that "VBIState" might of meant something. For the most part, except for the occasional missing 'day 8', both A & B have been good.

I connected the OTA feed to this 3rd 'problem' deck and ironically, almost exactly 24 hours later, I had full 8 day listings and ads. (I really would of been upset if I didn't have the ads :D ).

I took some additional shots of the updated Diag. screens.
The before and after 'Reception Slicing' screens are identical. No increase in counts.
The before and after 'Host Schedule' changed. Does that number represent a 'count' or is it a ID number?

I guess the before and after ATSC Slicer screens means the data is from a digital channel. :o

I included the System Info screen only because of what I thought was a unusual set of numbers/letters at the end of the "ID" line: FFFFFFFF12345678

I connected the OTA feed to this 3rd 'problem' deck and ironically, almost exactly 24 hours later, I had full 8 day listings and ads. (I really would of been upset if I didn't have the ads :D ).

I took some additional shots of the updated Diag. screens.
The before and after 'Reception Slicing' screens are identical. No increase in counts.
The before and after 'Host Schedule' changed. Does that number represent a 'count' or is it a ID number?

The 'Reception Slicing' screen only shows analog data activity, which is why the counts didn't change. The ATSC Slicer screen is the digital version of this screen.

The host schedule is just 'counts' they come in pretty frequently on my DVR.

I suspected that your TWC channel has issues, since you had mentioned that it did before (several months ago).

What is intriguing to me in all of this, is your unit "A". It shows a digital host channel, and a LastASetEnd date from almost a month ago. Which means that your digital host channel has been set for almost a month :eek:. This is the unit that went back to Sony? I'm really curious to see the system info screen on that unit (to verify the TVGOS version 08.01.71), and also to verify the 1.2.21 Sony firmware, which is Menu > Preferences > System > System Menu. My first thought was that maybe they snuck in a newer version of firmware, however I believe you posted pictures (in another thread) of all the paperwork that they sent back with it, indicating that it is version 1.2.21.

Update: I went and looked at the paperwork you posted on the "what's inside..." thread, and although they did send you a software upgrade page, they didn't mention what version the software is.

Mark

The "A" went back to Sony.

Recapping my somewhat unusual situation;
I have two OTA 'hosts'. One digital (PBS 43.2) and one analog (CTV ch. 9 Canada).
I also have two analog CATV 'hosts'. PBS ch. 3 (off air from the 1st sub channel) and CTV ch. 12.

What is more interesting/confusing is the fact all devices (including the Mits TV which isn't using TVGOS now) time and time again will show CATV ch. 3 and 12 (on a irregular basis) for either the VBI, clock set and/or host channels along with CATV ch. 113-1 (which is the PBS main channel) for the 'clock set' channel.

CATV 12 always amazes me since it is the Canadian analog host. The system always seems to find that and parks there.

The "A" went back to Sony.

Recapping my somewhat unusual situation;
I have two OTA 'hosts'. One digital (PBS 43.2) and one analog (CTV ch. 9 Canada).
I also have two analog CATV 'hosts'. PBS ch. 3 (off air from the 1st sub channel) and CTV ch. 12.

What is more interesting/confusing is the fact all devices (including the Mits TV which isn't using TVGOS now) time and time again will show CATV ch. 3 and 12 (on a irregular basis) for either the VBI, clock set and/or host channels along with CATV ch. 113-1 (which is the PBS main channel) for the 'clock set' channel.

CATV 12 always amazes me since it is the Canadian analog host. The system always seems to find that and parks there.

If I reconfigure my DVR for OTA + Cable, it latches onto the analog TVGOS on cable channel 12 every time. I really have to jump through hoops to try to trick it into using a digital host.

I seem to recall that you had issues with the Canadian data not working right with your US zipcode. It seems like you managed to some how block that station.

I'd still like for you to verify both the TVGOS version, and the sony firmware version that is in unit "A" that you got back from Sony.

Mark

From my oldest deck (the 250). 36 hour time span. Very little change in either screen unlike the 'A' deck, but the grid has a full 8 day schedule. :confused:

I still think Videobruce unit A that went to Sony - has magic stuff inside to make it work "more better"

If and when I get to take my Sony DVR to Dallas to see if it works perfect (or not), there...........then I may send my DVR to Sony for the Magic treatment.

No Ads or Listings here for Day 7 or 8, and now about 20% of days 1-6 are either No Listings or No Titles.

I still think Videobruce unit A that went to Sony - has magic stuff inside to make it work "more better"Yea, and Sony is sending me the software, passwords, encryption keys and instructions on how to swap HDD's and replace the 250 GB with a 1 TB drive. :D

Screen shots of the A and C decks 'System Info' home page. Also, a screen shot of the DVR's System test menu.

Hope that answers any questions.

From my oldest deck (the 250). 36 hour time span. Very little change in either screen unlike the 'A' deck, but the grid has a full 8 day schedule. :confused:

There is some activity on the reception slicing screen, I'm not familiar with how much analog data is typical for 36 hours. It doesn't seem like there was much activity at all, and none in the HostChan column, but maybe it was enough to keep day 8 full?

This deck "B" seems to get data from analog cable channel 3, where as your Deck "C" did not.

Mark

Screen shots of the A and C decks 'System Info' home page. Also, a screen shot of the DVR's System test menu.

Hope that answers any questions.

Thanks for those pics. There is nothing out of the ordinary there.

Mark

yea, and sony is sending me the software, passwords, encryption keys and instructions on how to swap hdd's and replace the 250 gb with a 1 tb drive. :d

lmao...

SONY PARTS NO LONGER AVAILABLE SENT MY hdd500 UNIT IN FOR REPAIR THE NO OUTPUT OF hdmi, ONLY to be told parts no longer avail.

SONY PARTS NO LONGER AVAILABLE SENT MY hdd500 UNIT IN FOR REPAIR THE NO OUTPUT OF hdmi, ONLY to be told parts no longer avail.

Did they refund your $150?

Full 8 days with 100% Listings and Ads again.

And

A new pattern of EPP, DPP, TimeZonePkts, StationPkts etc.

And

VBIState of 0x03 with HostSUFlag of 0xf78. yesterday VBIState was 0x05 with a 0xe68. It is just over 3 days in it's NumSearch 1 after it booted itself 3 days ago.

No Host Channel Set Yet.

THEY are returning unit to me they did not charge anything.

SONY PARTS NO LONGER AVAILABLE SENT MY hdd500 UNIT IN FOR REPAIR THE NO OUTPUT OF hdmi, ONLY to be told parts no longer avail.

THEY are returning unit to me they did not charge anything.
Wow I find it hard to believe that they can't find an HDMI connector anywhere. So now what, component out only?

Sorry to have to ask this again, but can anyone tell me why I'm having so many recordings drop out of the schedule list? One of my shows didn't record tonight. It was set up to record when I checked it yesterday. I've set up manual recordings now, but its a pain to have to babysit these DVR's. Thanks.

Sorry to have to ask this again, but can anyone tell me why I'm having so many recordings drop out of the schedule list? One of my shows didn't record tonight. It was set up to record when I checked it yesterday. I've set up manual recordings now, but its a pain to have to babysit these DVR's. Thanks.



I assume you are saying your “schedule” list has lines that turn grey with an exclamation mark?

If that is the case, then your Listings Grid has some changes taking place – you would have to look up each individual program (in the grid) to find out what is going on.

But I may not be understanding your question?

About 5 days ago, I had 4 programs do that – but the Grid had at first gone into a “crazy spell”, then went blank for 3 plus days. The last two days it has been 100% perfect; all listings, recordings, schedules, etc.

If you are able to check your schedule list before each prime evening recording session, you can quickly identify any changes that have taken place during the day and fix it before recording time.

mickinct; Is the connector itself bad, or the actual HDMI output signal??

Wow I find it hard to believe that they can't find an HDMI connector anywhere. So now what, component out only?
IT is not the connector it is the main board that has to be replaced. so only s-video or component output.

IT is not the connector it is the main board that has to be replaced. so only s-video or component output.
part #A1067582A NOT AVAIL.

THE reason you cannot add a hdd to a 250gb machine is that the 500gb machine board has a chip on it the size of a stamp, that the 250 machines do not have.

... recordings drop out of the schedule list?

It may be your listings getting messed up as HoustonPerson suggested. You may want to check your Recording History. One of my machines has taken to occasionally doing this:

http://suna.subako.org/~beeman/dhgRH1.jpg
http://suna.subako.org/~beeman/dhgRH2.jpg
http://suna.subako.org/~beeman/dhgRH3.jpg

will sell for 450.00

Sorry to have to ask this again, but can anyone tell me why I'm having so many recordings drop out of the schedule list? One of my shows didn't record tonight. It was set up to record when I checked it yesterday. I've set up manual recordings now, but its a pain to have to babysit these DVR's. Thanks.

I believe what TheRatPatrol is referring to is a weekly recording that records for weeks, and then one week the recording doesn't happen. Then when you check it, the weekly recording isn't in the schedule any more. This happens to me occasionally. I missed two episodes of "Heroes", and the season premiere of "Lost" back in February, because of this. I had set the "Lost" recording up a week before, but at some point during the week, "Heroes", and "Lost" both dropped out of the scheduled recordings list. I discovered the missing "Lost" episode the day after it was supposed to record, but it was another week before I realized Heroes had also disappeared.

I record "New Christine" on Wednesdays, and Survivor on Thursday. Two weeks ago Survivor moved to Wednesday for one episode because of the NCAA tournament. The "New Christine" recording was gray for that week since Survivor was on in place of it. I set "Survivor" to record for that one night, and when the recording was finished, both "New Christine", and The regular Thursday "Survivor" had dropped out of the recording list. I added them both back in for the next week, but when Thursday arrived, "Survivor" had dropped out of the list again, and didn't record.

This seems to happen more when shows skip a week or two, and become gray, and then you set up something to record once. When the one recording finishes, it seems to sometimes take out other scheduled recordings also. Although sometimes even when I add a new scheduled recording it is sometimes dropped before it records.

For the times when recordings are dropped, I go to tvtorrents.com, and download the episode I missed.

Mark

I believe what TheRatPatrol is referring to is a weekly recording that records for weeks, and then one week the recording doesn't happen. Then when you check it, the weekly recording isn't in the schedule any more. This happens to me occasionally. I missed two episodes of "Heroes", and the season premiere of "Lost" back in February, because of this. I had set the "Lost" recording up a week before, but at some point during the week, "Heroes", and "Lost" both dropped out of the scheduled recordings list. I discovered the missing "Lost" episode the day after it was supposed to record, but it was another week before I realized Heroes had also disappeared.

I record "New Christine" on Wednesdays, and Survivor on Thursday. Two weeks ago Survivor moved to Wednesday for one episode because of the NCAA tournament. The "New Christine" recording was gray for that week since Survivor was on in place of it. I set "Survivor" to record for that one night, and when the recording was finished, both "New Christine", and The regular Thursday "Survivor" had dropped out of the recording list. I added them both back in for the next week, but when Thursday arrived, "Survivor" had dropped out of the list again, and didn't record.

This seems to happen more when shows skip a week or two, and become gray, and then you set up something to record once. When the one recording finishes, it seems to sometimes take out other scheduled recordings also. Although sometimes even when I add a new scheduled recording it is sometimes dropped before it records.

For the times when recordings are dropped, I go to tvtorrents.com, and download the episode I missed.

Mark

That explains why I lost the only non-manual weekly recording on one of my units. Since the beginning of the year there have been more "no listing" blocks that are not always filled in. I've come to expect the loss of day 8, but I can't find any pattern to the loss or the "no listing" blocks. It's very frustrating.

I believe what TheRatPatrol is referring to is a weekly recording that records for weeks, and then one week the recording doesn't happen. Then when you check it, the weekly recording isn't in the schedule any more. This happens to me occasionally. I missed two episodes of "Heroes", and the season premiere of "Lost" back in February, because of this. I had set the "Lost" recording up a week before, but at some point during the week, "Heroes", and "Lost" both dropped out of the scheduled recordings list. I discovered the missing "Lost" episode the day after it was supposed to record, but it was another week before I realized Heroes had also disappeared.

I record "New Christine" on Wednesdays, and Survivor on Thursday. Two weeks ago Survivor moved to Wednesday for one episode because of the NCAA tournament. The "New Christine" recording was gray for that week since Survivor was on in place of it. I set "Survivor" to record for that one night, and when the recording was finished, both "New Christine", and The regular Thursday "Survivor" had dropped out of the recording list. I added them both back in for the next week, but when Thursday arrived, "Survivor" had dropped out of the list again, and didn't record.

This seems to happen more when shows skip a week or two, and become gray, and then you set up something to record once. When the one recording finishes, it seems to sometimes take out other scheduled recordings also. Although sometimes even when I add a new scheduled recording it is sometimes dropped before it records.

For the times when recordings are dropped, I go to tvtorrents.com, and download the episode I missed.

Mark
Yes thats exactly what I'm talking about. This has happened to me regardless if its set to W, weekly, or R, regularly. Its happened to me regardless if it the show skips a week or not. Very frustrating. I'll check out my recording history to see what it says. But for now I have manual back ups set.

Thanks