The only problem I see is I have an analog host channel and a digital clock set channel.

That is the same situation here when the Artec is connected AND running .21 firmware.


After “Reset Factory Defaults” and OTA sources:

1. No Artec, and No .21 installed = Dead Box
2. No Artec, and.21 installed = Digital Clock only and No Host Channel, No Grid
3. Artec with .21 installed = Analogue Host Channel with Digital Clock set
4. Artec without .21 installed = Analogue Host Channel and Analogue Clock set




OTA Pre-Digital transition, with .21 installed and No Artec:

Clock Channel set would alternate between the analogue PBS and the digital CBS.

Host Channel would alternate between analogue PBS and “blank”

Just an update that our tvgos is working again for our analog Panasonic EH75v. We did another cold reboot (or reset) ~ Nov 17th. On the next day it asked for the cable provider. Answered the questions and started to see listings and ads the following day, the 19th. We had left several messages with Comcast and was in email communication with Rovi. Rovi was glad to hear we were up, but did not accept credit for solving. We did not hear back from Comcast so is unclear if they assisted us or not.

Update from Phila. area... Still have grid, but all "NO LISTING" after tomorrow.

Had problems after DST and lost grid (first time ever), and other unusual problems, but they all cleared up with patience.

Update from Phila. area... Still have grid, but all "NO LISTING" after tomorrow.

Had problems after DST and lost grid (first time ever), and other unusual problems, but they all cleared up with patience.The screwup for about a week after 5 November was due to a failure with ROVI equipment at KYW TV.

Not so now... I have a full 8 days of listings on both of my TVGOS devices (one of which is a DHG). I receive KYW OTA. If you are getting KYW via cable/sat/fios, maybe you need to submit a trouble report with ROVI and/or your provider.

Can set preprogramed record or manual set record on my DHG-HDD250 but unit does no turn on record programs any longer. No description of this prob in troubleshooting section of manual.:confused:

The screwup for about a week after 5 November was due to a failure with ROVI equipment at KYW TV.

Not so now... I have a full 8 days of listings on both of my TVGOS devices (one of which is a DHG). I receive KYW OTA. If you are getting KYW via cable/sat/fios, maybe you need to submit a trouble report with ROVI and/or your provider.


Thanks Frank, but checked today when I got home and ALL 8 days were chock full of listings. These things can be such a tease sometimes....

Can set preprogramed record or manual set record on my DHG-HDD250 but unit does no turn on record programs any longer. No description of this prob in troubleshooting section of manual.:confused:

While tuned to any channel, hold down red record button until manual recording box displays. Is the date correct?

December 1st reset tvgos because hdd 250 had terminal hangs and freezes. Both units got buggy at the same time, making me wonder if it was "them".
December 7th the grid is back. Listings are still incomplete. Reorganized the listings in the guide.
OTA only .21 software
I have two units. Both were reset at the same time and both obtained grid the same time.
So, in a properly working tvgos environment it takes a week to restore grid.

Added a battery backup~surge supressor just in case.

Seems like a really long time for it to be out, but, the grid is back and everything is functioning fine.

Seems like a really long time for it to be out, but, the grid is back and everything is functioning fine.From what I've heard, six days sounds like you're among the lucky ones :)

Weird - didn't have any grid or listings problems this week with TVGOS from WCCO 4.1 OTA and ZIP set to 55121.

Weird - didn't have any grid or listings problems this week with TVGOS from WCCO 4.1 OTA and ZIP set to 55121.

Those are the same settings I have. Since the TVGOS is downloaded for 8 days in advance, I think my DHG quit getting updates about 14 days back. I think I'd noticed almost 2 weeks back that the guide wasn't fully loaded. Then about a week ago it was completely blank and I had the "NO GRID LOADED" message. It stayed that way for 6 days, then yesterday, it was back fully populated and working fine.

No idea why you would not have had a problem. It seems like this has been a widespread issue. I assumed it had to do with a new software download.

I got an email reply from ROVI today confirming that 4.1 still carries the TVGOS in the Minneapolis/St Paul area (which I already knew since my guide came back). They also commented:

We are aware of an upgrade provided by Sony that allows the Sony DHG DVR's to work off of digital OTA data. Sony declined our request to test this upgrade to our software, therefore we do not support whether this will upgrade will always work with digital data. Your device apparently has received this unsupported upgrade.
We have heard further reports that with this upgrade it will sometimes take between 24 and 120 hrs for the TVGOS to fully set up. Other times the TVGOS will never setup fully but may display the correct time and sometimes advertisements also, but never any listings. We have also heard reports of this unsupported upgrade displaying a guide with the incorrect time. This clock wanders off at intermittent intervals for varying times usually between 4 and 8 minutes but as much as 12 or 14 minutes on rare instances.

I got an email reply from ROVI today confirming that 4.1 still carries the TVGOS in the Minneapolis/St Paul area (which I already knew since my guide came back). They also commented:

[...]
We have also heard reports of this unsupported upgrade displaying a guide with the incorrect time. This clock wanders off at intermittent intervals for varying times usually between 4 and 8 minutes but as much as 12 or 14 minutes on rare instances.

That is the Austin clock problem they are referring to. It is interesting that they would attempt to blame the Sony for this issue since these two messages here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19505502#post19505502), and here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19509306#post19509306), show that Rovi has acknowledged that the problem is at the KEYE station, and has nothing to do with the Sony, or the DTVPal (the thread where these messages originated). KEYE isn't allowing enough bandwidth for the TVGOS data, and the entire TVGOS data stream is being delayed by as much as 14 minutes. Rovi told the engineer at KEYE how to fix the problem but the engineer isn't willing to do it yet since he feels it is too much work.

As far as why the clock is off in Austin, apparently the Rovi encoder has a buffer big enough to hold about 14 minutes of data. It shouldn't have to buffer the data at all, but it does because there isn't enough space to insert the data when it is supposed to, so the data backs up into this 14 minute buffer. When the buffer is about full, the data at the output of the buffer is literally 14 minutes old. If the Sony decides it is time to set the clock right then, it will be 14 minutes slow. When the encoder buffer fills up, it dumps the entire buffer and starts over. At which point the clock data is correct again, but the buffering continues, and the clock data gets off again. I have seen the TSReader data from Austin, that proves this out.

Mark

ROVI should fall into that special lists of the “Top 100 Companies” for the standard “CYA Policies” – Never admit they are wrong and never attempt to fix the problems. At this late date I suspect it will never change.

I am new to this forum, so I apologize if I am breaking some rule by posting here. I am looking for someone who might have experience with trying to get tvgos in Calvert county MD. Particularly through comcast.

I would appreciate it if someone would point me in the right direction.

Regards,

elderthomas -

Do you have a Sony DVR? Or are you looking for TVGOS info for another device? There are some differences as to how various devices react (or don't) to the different flavors of TVGOS that are broadcast. If you have a Sony, you're in the right forum. :)

A helpful hint would be to edit your profile (under the UserCP tab) so that your city and state appear next to your user name at the left.

If you have a Sony, do you have a Clock and Grid, but just no Listings?

I am new to this forum, so I apologize if I am breaking some rule by posting here. I am looking for someone who might have experience with trying to get tvgos in Calvert county MD. Particularly through comcast.

I would appreciate it if someone would point me in the right direction.

Regards,

If it's not a Sony DHG, there is a TVGOS thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1122914

Not a busy place, but people do watch it.

elderthomas -

Do you have a Sony DVR? Or are you looking for TVGOS info for another device? There are some differences as to how various devices react (or don't) to the different flavors of TVGOS that are broadcast. If you have a Sony, you're in the right forum. :)

A helpful hint would be to edit your profile (under the UserCP tab) so that your city and state appear next to your user name at the left.

If you have a Sony, do you have a Clock and Grid, but just no Listings?

Yes I have a Sony dhg hdd250 which I got about a week ago on eBay. It has the latest firmware up grade. I had a comcast cable card installed and it seems to be working OK as far a getting all the channels etc. , but there is no data at all for the tvgos screen. The local tvgos station is WUSA a CBS station. I inquired at the station about tvgos and got this reply

"As the CBS affiliate in Washington, DC, WUSA does transmit the TVGOS data on our broadcast signal, specifically on our HD channel 9.1. this data is included within the feed we provide to Comcast."

The comcast channel is 212. I have had the unit off overnite for several nights, but get no sign of any data and the host channel listing on the 753159852 menu is blank. I am looking for suggestions.

Thanks for the info.

That is the Austin clock problem they are referring to. It is interesting that they would attempt to blame the Sony for this issue since these two messages here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19505502#post19505502), and here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19509306#post19509306), show that Rovi has acknowledged that the problem is at the KEYE station, and has nothing to do with the Sony, or the DTVPal (the thread where these messages originated). KEYE isn't allowing enough bandwidth for the TVGOS data, and the entire TVGOS data stream is being delayed by as much as 14 minutes. Rovi told the engineer at KEYE how to fix the problem but the engineer isn't willing to do it yet since he feels it is too much work.

As far as why the clock is off in Austin, apparently the Rovi encoder has a buffer big enough to hold about 14 minutes of data. It shouldn't have to buffer the data at all, but it does because there isn't enough space to insert the data when it is supposed to, so the data backs up into this 14 minute buffer. When the buffer is about full, the data at the output of the buffer is literally 14 minutes old. If the Sony decides it is time to set the clock right then, it will be 14 minutes slow. When the encoder buffer fills up, it dumps the entire buffer and starts over. At which point the clock data is correct again, but the buffering continues, and the clock data gets off again. I have seen the TSReader data from Austin, that proves this out.

Mark

elderthomas -

Have you done the Setup where you enter your zipcode and such? If you have, then the best procedure is to do nothing.......... just wait it out. There are some people in some areas that acquire the Grid and Listings in only one day. Most of us (me included) take several days to a week or more. Some take even longer than that, and there are some (in Houston) that NEVER get a Grid without help from an external device (Artec).

Best advice is to just turn it off when you're not using it, and definitely don't do any kind of "resets". Resets only cause the unit to start over from scratch when building the Grid.

elderthomas -

Have you done the Setup where you enter your zipcode and such? If you have, then the best procedure is to do nothing.......... just wait it out. There are some people in some areas that acquire the Grid and Listings in only one day. Most of us (me included) take several days to a week or more. Some take even longer than that, and there are some (in Houston) that NEVER get a Grid without help from an external device (Artec).

Best advice is to just turn it off when you're not using it, and definitely don't do any kind of "resets". Resets only cause the unit to start over from scratch when building the Grid.

Thanks for your reply. I have done the Setup. and am aware that sometimes it takes a while to get the data. One of my biggest problems is lack of patience.

I just wanted to make sure I had not overlooked something else. I noticed that after the cable tech installed the card I was getting all the normal stations. After he left I was fooling around with some of the menus (such as the VBI search) on the Sony and afterward I seem to have lost most of my HD channels except the local broadcast. I don't know if it was caused by me or Comcast. But since I am still getting WUSA HD, I assume that it would not affect the tvgos data. I thought I would wait until I get the data before calling Comcast about the channel loss.

Another question I have was, does the tvgos data come in the VBI in digital transmissions?

Thanks again,

Read this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=140524&d=1240413962

I wouldn't wait until you have the Grid and Listings to try to get all your CableCard channels back. It is possible that you might lose your Grid again in that process, especially if your Cable Company gets involved . . . :rolleyes:

I would turn off the DVR (but leave it plugged in), then remove the CableCard from the back. You can just remove it half-way if you want, it doesn't need to come completely out. Keep it removed for about 30 seconds, then push it back in. Turn on the DVR and it will probably be at channel-0. Most likely all of your channels will be back. If not, you will need to call your cableco.

I have to do this procedure from time to time when a random channel disappears for some unknown reason . . . :eek:

Read this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...4&d=1240413962

I wouldn't wait until you have the Grid and Listings to try to get all your CableCard channels back. It is possible that you might lose your Grid again in that process, especially if your Cable Company gets involved . . . :rolleyes:

I would turn off the DVR (but leave it plugged in), then remove the CableCard from the back. You can just remove it half-way if you want, it doesn't need to come completely out. Keep it removed for about 30 seconds, then push it back in. Turn on the DVR and it will probably be at channel-0. Most likely all of your channels will be back. If not, you will need to call your cableco.

I have to do this procedure from time to time when a random channel disappears for some unknown reason . . . :eek:

Thanks. Bye the way the link didn't work. I will try your suggestion removing the card.

Sorry about the link. Try it again now (from my post that I edited).

WS65711

Thanks again . I removed the card as you suggested, and upon replacing it all the channels had returned. To me thats weird. Also thanks very much for the Link to the tvgos manual. I will read it while I am waiting for the data to show up.

You've been a great help much appreciated.

[...]
After he left I was fooling around with some of the menus (such as the VBI search) on the Sony and afterward I seem to have lost most of my HD channels except the local broadcast.

If you mean you were trying out some of the codes that are floating around these forums (codes other than the 'VBI Search Current Channel', or the 'G* Test' code), you should be careful doing that, since no one around here really knows what those codes do. I have managed to get my DVR to stop receiving TVGOS data after entering some of those codes. A problem that was rectified with a front panel TV Guide/Exit reset, once I realized what had happened.


Another question I have was, does the tvgos data come in the VBI in digital transmissions?


There is no such thing as VBI with digital transmissions. Everything is now a series of data streams. Video is a data stream, audio is a data stream, PSIP is a data stream, TVGOS is a data stream, etc.

Mark

If you mean you were trying out some of the codes that are floating around these forums (codes other than the 'VBI Search Current Channel', or the 'G* Test' code), you should be careful doing that, since no one around here really knows what those codes do. I have managed to get my DVR to stop receiving TVGOS data after entering some of those codes. A problem that was rectified with a front panel TV Guide/Exit reset, once I realized what had happened.



There is no such thing as VBI with digital transmissions. Everything is now a series of data streams. Video is a data stream, audio is a data stream, PSIP is a data stream, TVGOS is a data stream, etc.

Mark

The only ones that I tried were the 753159852 for seeing if there was a host channel. the G* test and the Search Current Channel for VBI. If there is no VBI info, what is this search doing. Its been a long time (since the days of black and white only) since I was involved in the technical end of TV signals. I know what Vertical blanking interval is, It provided a reference for the black level. I don't know how that is handled in digital TV and I probably won't try to learn.

In dealing with Comcast I have become somewhat paranoid. I am probably wrong, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Comcast might not pass on the tvgos info. upon reading the Gemstar info sheet I see that Cable operater have to make some equipment modifications to make sure that the digital tvgos data gets through. I would really like to find someone in this area that is receiving their tvgos through Comcast. When I tried to get some info from comcast all I got was "They don't support this issue so they couldn't answer any questions about it.

I guess I will wait and see. I surely appreciate the help from all you folks.

elderthomas -

Tune to your potential "Host" channel (HostChan).

Go to Guide screen, scroll to top of page, scoot over to Setup, cursor down once, press 753159852. You can then page down and page right to look at all kinds of "stuff". :D

Look through those pages for the "ATSC - Slicer" screen. Stay on that screen for a few minutes (remember, you must be tuned to your "HostChan") and hopefully you will see some of the values incrementing. If the proper values are incrementing, then your Cableco is passing the TVGOS data. If I could remember which values to tell you to look for, I would. But unfortunately I can't even remember what I did yesterday . . . . . :o

Maybe Mark will come back and tell you what to look for . . . :)

Yes I have a Sony dhg hdd250 which I got about a week ago on eBay.How much did you pay? Not a lot, I hope.

If you got it really cheap, and you're still able to get a stable time signal in any way (could even try a set of inexpensive rabbit ears into the antenna input), then barring being able to get it to work with your cable provider, it still might be worth it, assuming it's in good condition.

The only ones that I tried were the 753159852 for seeing if there was a host channel. the G* test and the Search Current Channel for VBI. If there is no VBI info, what is this search doing.


Those three codes are ok. The G* Test needs to be run by some people so they can see live data on the ATSC Slicer screen. I seldomly ever run it any more. In the old firmware it used to show packet counts for either digital or analog data. The new firmware no longer shows packet counts for digital data, only analog data. I have no idea why they turned it off for digital data.


In dealing with Comcast I have become somewhat paranoid. I am probably wrong, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Comcast might not pass on the tvgos info. upon reading the Gemstar info sheet I see that Cable operater have to make some equipment modifications to make sure that the digital tvgos data gets through. I would really like to find someone in this area that is receiving their tvgos through Comcast. When I tried to get some info from comcast all I got was "They don't support this issue so they couldn't answer any questions about it.

I guess I will wait and see. I surely appreciate the help from all you folks.

If your front panel clock is right then you are receiving TVGOS data. If it is wrong, then a quick way to tell whether your DVR has received any TVGOS data is to look at the number in square brackets to the right of the clock in the 753159852 screen (at the top). A '[2]' means no data has been received since the last reset, but a '[3]' means that it has received TVGOS data. The clock should also be 5 hours ahead of your local (Eastern) time. If you have a [3] by that clock, then the place to look for TVGOS data is on the ATSC Slicer screen which is 3 screens down from the first screen you see after entering the 753159852 menu. You should see counts in both the Since Cold, and Curr Chan column. If there are counts in the Since Cold column, but none in the Curr Chan column, it means you are getting data when the DVR is off, but not when it is on, which means that you may need to run the G* Test to see live data.

Mark

If your front panel clock is right then you are receiving TVGOS data. If it is wrong, then a quick way to tell whether your DVR has received any TVGOS data is to look at the number in square brackets to the right of the clock in the 753159852 screen (at the top). A '[2]' means no data has been received since the last reset, but a '[3]' means that it has received TVGOS data. The clock should also be 5 hours ahead of your local (Eastern) time. If you have a [3] by that clock, then the place to look for TVGOS data is on the ATSC Slicer screen which is 3 screens down from the first screen you see after entering the 753159852 menu. You should see counts in both the Since Cold, and Curr Chan column. If there are counts in the Since Cold column, but none in the Curr Chan column, it means you are getting data when the DVR is off, but not when it is on, which means that you may need to run the G* Test to see live data.

Mark

mabuttra

There is no clock data visible on the front panel. On the 753159842 menu screens the upper left reading is 12/16/2010 22:10 (3) which is about 5 hrs ahead. However, Cold and Curr Chan both read 0. Is this inconsistent, i.e., if the (3) indicates data recvd, but the zero's say no?

How much did you pay? Not a lot, I hope.

If you got it really cheap, and you're still able to get a stable time signal in any way (could even try a set of inexpensive rabbit ears into the antenna input), then barring being able to get it to work with your cable provider, it still might be worth it, assuming it's in good condition.

I don't think I got it too cheap $340 including shipping. I noticed that some others sold for about 280, but from reading between the lines I don't think they were in as good shape as this one. It seems to be perfect no marks, in the original box with all the accessories. I hope that it will be OK. But so far I haven't gotten a time setting. We will see.

mabuttra

There is no clock data visible on the front panel. On the 753159842 menu screens the upper left reading is 12/16/2010 22:10 (3) which is about 5 hrs ahead. However, Cold and Curr Chan both read 0. Is this inconsistent, i.e., if the (3) indicates data recvd, but the zero's say no?

It seems inconsistent, unless you are getting analog data. Instead of going down 3 screens to the ATSC Slicer screen, go up two screens. This is the Reception slicing screen which is where analog data is logged. Are there any counts on that screen? Also you can go down two screens (Clocks 1), and to the right one screen (Clocks 2). This is where the clock set channel is displayed. What channel does the 'Clock Set Chan' field show? If it shows a channel in this format: y:0-xx (as in 1:0-12) it is an analog channel. If it shows a channel in this format: y:xx-z (as in 1:12-0) it is a digital channel.

Mark

I am new to this forum, so I apologize if I am breaking some rule by posting here. I am looking for someone who might have experience with trying to get tvgos in Calvert county MD. Particularly through comcast.

I would appreciate it if someone would point me in the right direction.

Regards,


Call your local cable feed office. Ask them if they have a TVGOS inserter and, if so, on what channel it is used. It may save some time and you have nothing to lose.

What channel does the 'Clock Set Chan' field show? If it shows a channel in this format: y:0-xx (as in 1:0-12) it is an analog channel. If it shows a channel in this format: y:xx-z (as in 1:12-0) it is a digital channel.

Mark

Mark

The Set Chan field read 1:122-0. I guess this means digital. Although 122 is some kind of cooking channel. 212 is the channel for the CBS station that broadcasts tvgos.

I am wondering why I can see a clock that seems to have the right date and 5 hrs ahead on the 753159852 menu pages but nothing shows up on the front panel. I must be missing something

Richard

I am wondering why I can see a clock that seems to have the right date and 5 hrs ahead on the 753159852 menu pages but nothing shows up on the front panel. I must be missing something

Richard

The front panel clock doesn't always show the same time as the internal clock. It will usually correct itself after the internal LastClkSet is updated. With an analog host this happens frequently. With a digital host, patience is needed.

A channel in the format of XXX is a virtual channel, something made up by your cable company. A channel like XX.YYY is a physical channel that is used by the internal diagnostics (but may not be the REAL physical channel sometimes). Should you plug a digital TV into your cable feed directly, you would see these physical channels also. I'd guess from your location that an outdoor antenna is not an option. I know how that feels.

If the internal clock is exactly 5 hours fast, you are getting some data. Internal time is UTC which is now five hours ahead for the east coast.

I am wondering why I can see a clock that seems to have the right date and 5 hrs ahead on the 753159852 menu pages but nothing shows up on the front panel. I must be missing something

Richard

You are missing a timezone packet that tells the DVR how far to offset the front panel clock for local time. Timezone packets are in the TVGOS data. A timezone packet's data shows up on the 'Clocks 1' screen. When you get a timezone packet the offset field on that screen will show the offset in seconds from GMT.

Mark

Thanks for all the good info everyone. I am still waiting and watching. I won't do anything more for a few days. I was wondering at what point I might expect to see info in the host channel field. Would I see it before the grid starts showing?

No, the HostChan field fills in at the same time that the Grid appears. Then (strangely) after a few days the HostChan field will blank, but the Grid remains and will continue to update with fresh Listings.

Watch for changes in the HostSUFlags field. When the 9 bits are set, you will have a HostChan. But be aware that sometimes bits get set and then flip back to zero while you're still waiting for other bits to set. All the stars must be in proper alignment at the same instant . . . :D

Check out Mark's famous simulator: http://members.cox.net/mabuttra/tvgos/hostsuflags.htm

That is the Austin clock problem they are referring to. It is interesting that they would attempt to blame the Sony for this issue since these two messages here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19505502#post19505502), and here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19509306#post19509306), show that Rovi has acknowledged that the problem is at the KEYE station, and has nothing to do with the Sony, or the DTVPal (the thread where these messages originated). KEYE isn't allowing enough bandwidth for the TVGOS data, and the entire TVGOS data stream is being delayed by as much as 14 minutes. Rovi told the engineer at KEYE how to fix the problem but the engineer isn't willing to do it yet since he feels it is too much work.

As far as why the clock is off in Austin, apparently the Rovi encoder has a buffer big enough to hold about 14 minutes of data. It shouldn't have to buffer the data at all, but it does because there isn't enough space to insert the data when it is supposed to, so the data backs up into this 14 minute buffer. When the buffer is about full, the data at the output of the buffer is literally 14 minutes old. If the Sony decides it is time to set the clock right then, it will be 14 minutes slow. When the encoder buffer fills up, it dumps the entire buffer and starts over. At which point the clock data is correct again, but the buffering continues, and the clock data gets off again. I have seen the TSReader data from Austin, that proves this out.

Mark

Hi Mark,
I have read your two links and I have the maximum bit rate for the three TVGOS streams.

Legacy (0x06) 46624 bits per second
TVG1 (0x05) 28576 bits per second
TVG2 (0x05) 1504 bits per second

If I remember correctly Rovi requires a reserve of about 125,000 bits per second of the host stations 19.4 million bits per second feed.

In the case of KEYE, Their biggest problem is they are also multiplexing telemundo in their 6 megahertz channel which is consuming about 2.2 million bits per second from their main CBS HD feed.
The station probably started to get complaints from antenna users or cable and sat operators that the Sunday NFL games were getting some macroblocking in them so engineering has to find the neccesary bit rate in their feed to make up for loss to telemundo.
Management decides how to use the space on their 6 megahertz channel and telemundo is a additional advertising revenue stream for the station and Rovi doesn't pay them anything so its their allotted bit rate that gets absorbed when the main HD channel needs it.
The sad thing is that Rovi's feed doesn't use all that much bit rate to make a large impact. It is apparent that the station no longer wants the inserter any more so it will not be to shocking if they disconnect it and give it back to Rovi.

3 days since the last reset and there is no sign of any new data arriving. The HostSUFlags field still shows 0x80000000. I think the 8 indicates the data used to set the internal clock to GMT which apparantly comes through cable channel 122. Is it possible that the internal clock is set from data not obtained from the tvgos system. Since channel 212 is supposed to be the tvgos host in this area.

I am thinking about trying an outside antenna. Hopefully one that I can put in the attic. I am about 35 miles from the tvgos stations antennas. If anyone has any experience with attic antennas I would appreciate your comments.

Richard

3 days since the last reset and there is no sign of any new data arriving. The HostSUFlags field still shows 0x80000000. I think the 8 indicates the data used to set the internal clock to GMT which apparantly comes through cable channel 122. Is it possible that the internal clock is set from data not obtained from the tvgos system. Since channel 212 is supposed to be the tvgos host in this area.

I am thinking about trying an outside antenna. Hopefully one that I can put in the attic. I am about 35 miles from the tvgos stations antennas. If anyone has any experience with attic antennas I would appreciate your comments.

Richard

I'd run the TVGOS setup again, and double check that you entered your correct zip code. Getting to 0x80000000, and going no further usually indicates that the zip code entered is outside the area covered by the host channel.

Also refer to Joe's post about virtual vs. physical channels. The chances that your host/clock channel would show as 212 is very slim. Virtual channel 212 is probably transmitted on physical channel 122.X which is what the DVR reports.

Mark

3 days since the last reset and there is no sign of any new data arriving. The HostSUFlags field still shows 0x80000000. I think the 8 indicates the data used to set the internal clock to GMT which apparantly comes through cable channel 122. Is it possible that the internal clock is set from data not obtained from the tvgos system. Since channel 212 is supposed to be the tvgos host in this area.

I am thinking about trying an outside antenna. Hopefully one that I can put in the attic. I am about 35 miles from the tvgos stations antennas. If anyone has any experience with attic antennas I would appreciate your comments.

Richard

No TVGOS only works with its own data stream. Since you are using a CableCard, channel 212 is the vitual channel and channel 122 is the physical RF channel that 212 is on.
If you tune the DHG to 212 and enter the TVGOS diagnotics menu is there any counts showing up on the ATSC splicer menu if not you may want to try another full TVGOS reset tonight and tune the DHG to the host channel 212 and turn it off over night.
If you don't have any further progress than what you have now then it could be a lot of different things that may be wrong.
1. Comcasts equipment may be corrupting the data stream.
2. Your zip code is not in the TVGOS database. Try other zip codes from your surrounding area.
3. There is a problem with the inserter it self.

You could try splitting your cable feed at the back of the DHG and put one into the cable input and the other into the antenna input and set the guide for a cable and antenna input in the set up menu of the guide.
If there is a analog lineup in comcasts feed you will scan this onto the antenna input of the DHG.
If this is the case then tune the DHG to the analog copy of WUSA and turn it off overnight and see if there is any progress in the morning.

Comcast maybe doing the conversion of the TVGOS legacy stream into analog and you will find this on the analog copy of WUSA. You will not find the legacy feed on your CableCard lineup because it is all digital.

........... I am thinking about trying an outside antenna. Hopefully one that I can put in the attic. I am about 35 miles from the tvgos stations antennas. If anyone has any experience with attic antennas I would appreciate your comments.

Richard

I have experience with attic-mounted outside antennas, and I am about 40 miles from my host station's transmitters. BUT, 25 miles of the distance is over open water in my case (Lake Pontchartrain). And there are no mountains or hills in Southeast Louisiana, and few really tall buildings. We'll need to know the physical channel number(s) for your potential host station(s) first . . .

I'd run the TVGOS setup again, and double check that you entered your correct zip code. Getting to 0x80000000, and going no further usually indicates that the zip code entered is outside the area covered by the host channel.

Mark

I guess I don't know what a virtual channel is. Is it just an arbitrary number that comcast assigns to part of the spectrum that they transmit over their cable network?

I took your suggestion and reset the tvgos and setup a different zip code closer in to the area covered by the tvgos host station.

Thanks

I have experience with attic-mounted outside antennas, and I am about 40 miles from my host station's transmitters. BUT, 25 miles of the distance is over open water in my case (Lake Pontchartrain). And there are no mountains or hills in Southeast Louisiana, and few really tall buildings. We'll need to know the physical channel number(s) for your potential host station(s) first . . .

Thanks for the reply. The host station should be channel 9.1 (SD 9) WUSA The CBS affiliate in Washington DC. Their antenna is 33.2 mile from my location. There are no mountains in betwen, but a little hilly. I looked it up on a site that gives you information about where stations are located relative to your location. You may be familar with it

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Welcome.aspx

However they don't mention attic antennas. my location is somewhat lower than the surrounding here (maybe about 35 ft.) so that probably is a negative. I would be interested in anything you have to share on this issue.

Richard

try another full TVGOS reset tonight and tune the DHG to the host channel 212 and turn it off over night.
If you don't have any further progress than what you have now then it could be a lot of different things that may be wrong.
1. Comcasts equipment may be corrupting the data stream.
2. Your zip code is not in the TVGOS database. Try other zip codes from your surrounding area.
3. There is a problem with the inserter it self.

You could try splitting your cable feed at the back of the DHG and put one into the cable input and the other into the antenna input and set the guide for a cable and antenna input in the set up menu of the guide.
If there is a analog lineup in comcasts feed you will scan this onto the antenna input of the DHG.
If this is the case then tune the DHG to the analog copy of WUSA and turn it off overnight and see if there is any progress in the morning.

Comcast maybe doing the conversion of the TVGOS legacy stream into analog and you will find this on the analog copy of WUSA. You will not find the legacy feed on your CableCard lineup because it is all digital.

I have done the cable splitting bit, the interesting thing there is the analog channel 9 that I get from that says it is DSGNY. I have no idea what that means.

I did a reset and changed the zipcode to a location closer to the tygos station. I will now wait. Thanks for your input.

I looked here: http://www.tvfool.com/maps/?call=wusa

I don't see Huntington, but I do see that the WUSA signal gets into the "very weak" category at about 25 miles out in many directions. That and an attic mounted antenna is not a good combination. Lets give that new Zipcode a day or two to work first before investing in an antenna . . .

I have done the cable splitting bit, the interesting thing there is the analog channel 9 that I get from that says it is DSGNY. I have no idea what that means.

I did a reset and changed the zipcode to a location closer to the tygos station. I will now wait. Thanks for your input.

Is this your comcast cable line up?
https://www.comcast.com/Customers/Clu/ChannelLineup.ashx?print=1&CGID=2681

If it is you have two WUSA HD channels. One on 212 and another on 809. This might spell trouble.

If you look at the ATSC splicer screen and you see any count in TotFrTape column then the data is being corrupted and you will never build a grid from the digital channel on the DHG. Your only hope will be from the analog channel if that exists or you will have to put up an antenna or go through the agonizing process of contacting Rovi Corp in order to get it fixed.
Also on the VBI Stats screen there should be a TotFrTape column if there is any counts there then the analog data stream is corrupted if there is any analog data available.

You could try these zip codes:
Washington DC 20001
Prince Frederick 20678
Try the DC one first as that should definately work. If it does then try the Prince Frederick next.

You must always leave the DHG tuned to the host channel and turned off until it gets a grid. If you use the DHG or even record with it you might miss the data needed to build a grid and it will take longer if at all to get a grid. It took 6 complete days for me to get a grid using KYW HD out of Philadelphia and it was the time zone packet that it needed.

I looked here: http://www.tvfool.com/maps/?call=wusa

I don't see Huntington, but I do see that the WUSA signal gets into the "very weak" category at about 25 miles out in many directions. That and an attic mounted antenna is not a good combination. Lets give that new Zipcode a day or two to work first before investing in an antenna . . .

I checked after about 1 hr. with the new zip and the HostSUFlag now reads
0x2c800000, which is at least a change (hopefully for the better)

[QUOTE=Jed1:]
If you look at the ATSC splicer screen and you see any count in TotFrTape column then the data is being corrupted and you will never build a grid from the digital channel on the DHG. Your only hope will be from the analog channel if that exists or you will have to put up an antenna or go through the agonizing process of contacting Rovi Corp in order to get it fixed.
Also on the VBI Stats screen there should be a TotFrTape column if there is any counts there then the analog data stream is corrupted if there is any analog data available.

It looks like my channel lineup. I will check out the TotFrTape column. But I am encouraged that the HostSUFlag is getting something more than 8. Thanks

I am still reading 0xc2800000 in the HostSUFlag col. Zero in the TotFrTape col. I am also getting a reading on the panel clock which I wasn't getting before although it is about 3 1/2 hrs fast.

I checked after about 1 hr. with the new zip and the HostSUFlag now reads
0x2c800000, which is at least a change (hopefully for the better)

[QUOTE=Jed1:]
If you look at the ATSC splicer screen and you see any count in TotFrTape column then the data is being corrupted and you will never build a grid from the digital channel on the DHG. Your only hope will be from the analog channel if that exists or you will have to put up an antenna or go through the agonizing process of contacting Rovi Corp in order to get it fixed.
Also on the VBI Stats screen there should be a TotFrTape column if there is any counts there then the analog data stream is corrupted if there is any analog data available.

It looks like my channel lineup. I will check out the TotFrTape column. But I am encouraged that the HostSUFlag is getting something more than 8. Thanks

It looks like its working but remember keep the DHG tuned to the host and turned off until you get a grid. Please resist the temptation to use it until this happens. Patience is a virtue.
You can turn the unit on and check the TVGOS diagnostics menu but don't change the channel.
Like I said it took 6 whole days to get a grid where I am at and it could take you just as long or even longer.

The DHG can not read the digital type 27, 81 and 97 data from the down load schedule. It gets its data from one minute bursts that occur every quarter after the hour and quarter to the hour. The only data it gets from the digital down load schedule is listings data.

If you do perhaps see any counts in the TotFrTape column and it keeps incrementing upwards then there is a problem with the data.

I am still reading 0xc2800000 in the HostSUFlag col. Zero in the TotFrTape col. I am also getting a reading on the panel clock which I wasn't getting before although it is about 3 1/2 hrs fast.

It will probably stay here for a while because it has to collect enough of packets for the two update TVGOS patches. When each patch sets it will set the front panel clock back to 12:00am. You will know when it gets the time zone packet because your front panel clock will be correct.
You will know when both patches are set because you will have ads on the left side of the guide. Also you will see the patches on the third line of the first screen of the diagnostics menu. You will see something like this:
08.01.71/08.05.40 for the first patch
08.01.71/08.06.46 for the second patch

Remember the data only comes in one minute burtst at quarter after and quarter to the hour. If everything goes well you should have both patches by tommorow afternoon or earlier.

Remember resist any temptation to use the DHG until it gets a grid and listings. Using it before that will needlessy extend the agony or dealy it indefiantly.

I looked here: http://www.tvfool.com/maps/?call=wusa

I don't see Huntington, but I do see that the WUSA signal gets into the "very weak" category at about 25 miles out in many directions. That and an attic mounted antenna is not a good combination. Lets give that new Zipcode a day or two to work first before investing in an antenna . . .

Thanks for the link. If you zoom on the map, you can see Huntingtown. It seems to be right in the middle of the weak signal area. They indicate this to be about the range of attic antennas (I'm sure it depends on the local topography and type of antenna). As you suggest, I am going to hold off on the antenna project until I see how the current test works out.

Thanks again

I guess I don't know what a virtual channel is. Is it just an arbitrary number that comcast assigns to part of the spectrum that they transmit over their cable network?

I took your suggestion and reset the tvgos and setup a different zip code closer in to the area covered by the tvgos host station.

Thanks

A virtual channel is, like you said, a number Comcast assigns to a frequency to make it easier for you to operate that cable box. It's not real except maybe for those cable channels under 21 (maybe). What cable companies have been doing for a while is compressing the station content to squeeze more of it into the available space on that cable wire. With DTV, broadcasters got into the compression act also (more channels = more money). The cable card inside your DHG takes the place of your cable box. You should see the same channel numbers on the tv guide of the DHG as your STB when everything is working. In fact, without the cable card you would still see the same channels, but they wouldn't work. Rovi sends guide data with the assumption that you have either a cable card or antenna or both. The guide is based on your DMA (or zipcode). Last time I looked, my cable feed of TVGOS had data for three different lineups. None of that matters to me since I don't have a cable card. But it was fun to play with. If you have more than one lineup of channels being sent to you, you will be asked to select one after the DHG downloads enough data to build those lineups. Before you ask, the lineup is all the channels on your feed. It could be over 600. The listings are the shows/titles that go with the channels in your lineup. Like the newspaper program listing. Best of luck.

Forgot to mention: should you acquire a device like a DVR or DVD recorder that doesn't support a cable card, and connect it BEFORE your cable box, you will learn about physical channels real quick. With Comcast, you may not like what you find.

Forgot to mention: should you acquire a device like a DVR or DVD recorder that doesn't support a cable card, and connect it BEFORE your cable box, you will learn about physical channels real quick. With Comcast, you may not like what you find.

Now that you mention it Can a DVD recorder be hooked up to the composite video output of the DHG instead of a VCR? I have never had a DVD recorder so I don't know their limitations.

Yes...... I bought the DVD recorder that Walmart sells (Magnavox H2160) which has an S-Video input. It makes decent quality copies of stuff I really wanted to save.......... like the Saints winning last season's SuperBowl. :)

Yes...... I bought the DVD recorder that Walmart sells (Magnavox H2160) which has an S-Video input. It makes decent quality copies of stuff I really wanted to save.......... like the Saints winning last season's SuperBowl. :)

Thanks, Like you I would like to record some of the Redskin games if they ever start playing decently again:(:( I may look into the Magnavox.

On another issue, I notice that after being off all night, this morning the HostSUFlag count was 0xc68, which was a increase since yesterday afternoon, although nothing has come in all day. I was thinking that my data was coming thru analog WJZ (13 Baltimore), so I left it on that channel. But I noticed that the clock set channel is 1:122 which I believe corresponds to (WUSA Washington DC) channel 212 comcast cable. Does this mean my tvgos data is all coming from WUSA not WJZ. I was told that I should leave it on the channel the tygos data was coming from. Should I leave it on 212 instead of 13?

On another issue, I notice that after being off all night, this morning the HostSUFlag count was 0xc68, which was a increase since yesterday afternoon, although nothing has come in all day. I was thinking that my data was coming thru analog WJZ (13 Baltimore), so I left it on that channel. But I noticed that the clock set channel is 1:122 which I believe corresponds to (WUSA Washington DC) channel 212 comcast cable. Does this mean my tvgos data is all coming from WUSA not WJZ. I was told that I should leave it on the channel the tygos data was coming from. Should I leave it on 212 instead of 13?

My DVR usually sits on 0xc68 a couple of days before going further.

Contrary to what Jed1 implied, it makes no difference where you tune the DVR before turning it off. That does not determine where the DVR looks for data. As soon as you turn off the DVR it goes back to the last channel where it got data (I presume the clock set channel, but I don't know for sure). If the DVR has just been reset then it uses a search algorithm to find the data, by starting on some channel (probably channel 2) and systematically stepping through each channel until it finds TVGOS data. Leaving it on a certain channel does not cause the search to start there. I know it works this way because after I reset my DVR, it takes 12 minutes for the DVR to find the data, no matter whether I leave the DVR on my host channel (ch 12), or on channel 45, or on channel 2, before turning it off. It always takes 12 minutes to find the data the first time. After it finds the data then it remembers where it found it and jumps back to there whenever you turn off the DVR.

WUSA is Washington DC, if you want to get the data from there then you need to enter a Washington DC zip code. WJZ is Baltimore, if you want to get the data from there then you should enter a Baltimore zip code. Realize though that changing the zip code will cause the grid building to start over again, so you may want to leave well enough alone, until you get the grid, then you can change the zip code all day long, and it won't matter.

Mark

Now that you mention it Can a DVD recorder be hooked up to the composite video output of the DHG instead of a VCR? I have never had a DVD recorder so I don't know their limitations.

Yes. I have fed the output of my DHG into my Toshiba RX-50 to make a DVD-RAM. It's done in real time, so it takes one hour to copy a one hour title. I think I was using S-Video, but it was a while ago.

Yes...... I bought the DVD recorder that Walmart sells (Magnavox H2160) which has an S-Video input. It makes decent quality copies of stuff I really wanted to save.......... like the Saints winning last season's SuperBowl. :)

The 2160 is no longer sold. The latest is the 515H with 500gb. That gets you 100 hours at best SD quality, plus the DVD recorder. I have a 2160 and it is used to record my SD cable channels, reducing the wear on my DHG. There is a very good thread on this forum for that product line. Right now it sells for about $250. I put a 500gb drive into my 2160, so unless something major happens, I'm happy with what I have.

[...]
In fact, without the cable card you would still see the same channels, but they wouldn't work. Rovi sends guide data with the assumption that you have either a cable card or antenna or both.

Joe, what wouldn't work? If you don't have a cable card, you can remap the cable channels, and then they will show up in the grid with listings, so what are you saying won't work without a cable card?

Mark

Joe, what wouldn't work? If you don't have a cable card, you can remap the cable channels, and then they will show up in the grid with listings, so what are you saying won't work without a cable card?

Mark

It's been a while. I forgot that I can't map channels because my cable company sends out their QAM256 channels in a format that TVGOS does not accept. My NBC HD is 84.1401, or so the DHG (and Sony TV) sees it as such. I'm sure if it was considered 84.1, like my Magnavox and Panasonic describe it, then I could map it and subsequently be able to record it from the guide and not need to use manual recording. Senior moment? Sorry.

It's been a while. I forgot that I can't map channels because my cable company sends out their QAM256 channels in a format that TVGOS does not accept. My NBC HD is 84.1401, or so the DHG (and Sony TV) sees it as such. I'm sure if it was considered 84.1, like my Magnavox and Panasonic describe it, then I could map it and subsequently be able to record it from the guide and not need to use manual recording. Senior moment? Sorry.

It's not your fault. I had forgotten about the issue with the DHG, and 4 digit subchannels, so for your cable provider your statement was correct.

Mark

It's not your fault. I had forgotten about the issue with the DHG, and 4 digit subchannels, so for your cable provider your statement was correct.

Mark

No sweat. Now for the rest of the story. My TV, Sony 32EX700, has TVGOS V10. That's 24 hours via the internet. It does show my 4-digit subchannels. I found that, like the DHG, the lineup and listings are based on OTA/cable card. The TV has no cable card slot. But it would let me map 84.1401 to 3, my NBC HD local. It gave me full PSIP like info (I get no PSIP data). So I added a few more. Then I added one guide channel that was no longer supplied as analog. Boom. The TV crashed and I couldn't add Favorites or tune mapped channels. I had to perform a "factory restore" and start from the "pick your language" menu. On the EX700 thread, TVGOS is considered a virus. But I leave it enabled and don't do any mapping. I leave the thing alone and it leaves me alone. It's fun, yet not as much fun as the DHG.

My DVR usually sits on 0xc68 a couple of days before going further.

Contrary to what Jed1 implied, it makes no difference where you tune the DVR before turning it off. That does not determine where the DVR looks for data. As soon as you turn off the DVR it goes back to the last channel where it got data (I presume the clock set channel, but I don't know for sure). If the DVR has just been reset then it uses a search algorithm to find the data, by starting on some channel (probably channel 2) and systematically stepping through each channel until it finds TVGOS data. Leaving it on a certain channel does not cause the search to start there. I know it works this way because after I reset my DVR, it takes 12 minutes for the DVR to find the data, no matter whether I leave the DVR on my host channel (ch 12), or on channel 45, or on channel 2, before turning it off. It always takes 12 minutes to find the data the first time. After it finds the data then it remembers where it found it and jumps back to there whenever you turn off the DVR.

WUSA is Washington DC, if you want to get the data from there then you need to enter a Washington DC zip code. WJZ is Baltimore, if you want to get the data from there then you should enter a Baltimore zip code. Realize though that changing the zip code will cause the grid building to start over again, so you may want to leave well enough alone, until you get the grid, then you can change the zip code all day long, and it won't matter.

Mark

Thank you Mark,

I suspected that this was the case, but wanted verification.

Saturday I reset the zip code for a location about halfway between my location and the station. within an hour after resetting the zip the HostSUFlag went from 0x80000000 to 0xc6800000, its current setting, and I did get a clock reading on the front panel, but there has been no change in the HostSUFlag reading over the past two nights. I find it difficult to understand why it goes for such long periods without getting new data, or is there data being recorded without any response on the HostSUFlag indicator?

Be the way, your simulator is great, a big help in understanding the readings on the HostSUFlag.

Richard

. . . . . I find it difficult to understand why it goes for such long periods without getting new data, or is there data being recorded without any response on the HostSUFlag indicator?


There are some data packetsthat Rovi seems to "ration". It's like some types of packets you'll get millions of every day, but then there are those "rare" packets that they only send out one or two of every few days (or never in the case of Houston). If your DVR happens to be "in use" and tuned to a non-TVGOS channel when those rare packets are sent, you'll miss them. :eek::eek::eek: Then the waiting continues . . . :(:(:(

Has your front panel clock set to the right time yet?

There are some data packetsthat Rovi seems to "ration". It's like some types of packets you'll get millions of every day, but then there are those "rare" packets that they only send out one or two of every few days (or never in the case of Houston). If your DVR happens to be "in use" and tuned to a non-TVGOS channel when those rare packets are sent, you'll miss them. :eek::eek::eek: Then the waiting continues . . . :(:(:(

Has your front panel clock set to the right time yet?

No it hasn't. Is there any other menu item that indicates how much data has been received?

Richard

Elderthomas, I just wanted to add my vote to the "patience is a virtue" column. :D Since the digital transition, those of us who are OTA only have gotten used to seeing the host channel field blank out every 3+ days and some of us track how long it takes to set again. This would be the same length of time it would take to build a channel lineup/grid.

I have two DHGs and usually it only takes 2-4 days to see the host channel field set. Recently though, things changed here. My units went 10 days without receiving a single TimeZone packet (needed for correct time when you've never had one before). Prior to that, three weeks elapsed without "mystery bits" 1 & 3 being received. So if I had been waiting for a grid to appear it would have been a long, frustrating wait. I sympathize with you, but hang in there. Since your SetUpFlags managed to get to 0xc68, you are getting some data coming through!

Elderthomas, I just wanted to add my vote to the "patience is a virtue" column. :D Since the digital transition, those of us who are OTA only have gotten used to seeing the host channel field blank out every 3+ days and some of us track how long it takes to set again. This would be the same length of time it would take to build a channel lineup/grid.

I have two DHGs and usually it only takes 2-4 days to see the host channel field set. Recently though, things changed here. My units went 10 days without receiving a single TimeZone packet (needed for correct time when you've never had one before). Prior to that, three weeks elapsed without "mystery bits" 1 & 3 being received. So if I had been waiting for a grid to appear it would have been a long, frustrating wait. I sympathize with you, but hang in there. Since your SetUpFlags managed to get to 0xc68, you are getting some data coming through!

HostSUFlag just went to 0xee800000, and the clock was set correctly. I feel like the home team just scored a touchdown. I wish I understood the inner workings of the tvgos better, but as everyone seems to say it requires patience. We often would like to have patience, but our trouble is that we want it right now.

Richard

Elderthomas, Since the digital transition, those of us who are OTA only have gotten used to seeing the host channel field blank out every 3+ days and some of us track how long it takes to set again. This would be the same length of time it would take to build a channel lineup/grid.


That's going to be area dependent. I'm up in the SF Bay Area and the transition from PBS to CBS was seamless. I've never lost the grid and the only glitches seem to occur when the guide adds new channels. I'm OTA only and still run on .09 firmware.

After years of flawless operation my 250 has lost the time. The guilde seems to be fine but I can't record because the clock is out (--:--).

Where do I get time information?

Well I just checked, no time or listings. I reset zip code but the listed one was correct. I receive both analog cable and OTA dig on the DVR.

After years of flawless operation my 250 has lost the time. The guilde seems to be fine but I can't record because the clock is out (--:--).

Where do I get time information?

Well I just checked, no time or listings. I reset zip code but the listed one was correct. I receive both analog cable and OTA dig on the DVR.

Start with the basics. Do you have a host channel? If not, what was it? What was shown as the host with the diagnostics? Firmware version?

If nothing changed on your end like a power outage, then did something change at Cox or your OTA stations? You get time information from the TVGOS data.

While waiting for the tvgos data to arrive, I have been considering what I might use to permanently archive some of the recordings that I would like to make on the DHG. WS65711 and Joe Kustra have mentioned a couple of alternatives. I notice that the Magnavox 515H seems to be a really nice unit, but has more capability than I need at present. I would like a simple DVDR or DVDR/VHS combo that could be used to burn a disk or make a tape from recordings on the DHG hard drive. Will any DVD recorder accept the output from the DHG, or is something special needed?

Richard

While waiting for the tvgos data to arrive, I have been considering what I might use to permanently archive some of the recordings that I would like to make on the DHG. WS65711 and Joe Kustra have mentioned a couple of alternatives. I notice that the Magnavox 515H seems to be a really nice unit, but has more capability than I need at present. I would like a simple DVDR or DVDR/VHS combo that could be used to burn a disk or make a tape from recordings on the DHG hard drive. Will any DVD recorder accept the output from the DHG, or is something special needed?

Richard

Richard, this is getting close to off-topic, but here's my view. Personal items you want to keep can be stored "best" on S-VHS tapes. Opinions vary on this of course. A tape does not depend on silver like a DVD or film. All the backups at work are done to a DAT. Again, you have to remember that these are items that you have created.

If it's something special on the DHG, it's not personal, then it should be found somewhere on the internet or Amazon. If not, then the S-Video output would be better than the RWY output. I've never found a VCR or DVDR with component input. The DHG does not support IEEE or other digital interfaces that would allow you to make a loss-less D-VHS tape on some VCRs from JVC or Mitsubishi. Remember, the only input to a DHG is from RF via cable or antenna. I do tend to record a full season of a show sometimes. I consider that a really big time shift, not an archive.

I'm sure there are threads nearby on this forum that can get more specific on archives. And there are the 513H or 2160A that are less expensive units. Check eBay.

... I've never found a VCR or DVDR with component input.
... And there are the 513H or 2160A that are less expensive units.
As you noted, the video in for most recorders is composite or S-Video, not very good quality. You can get component or even HDMI video input for PCs which would allow you to take high quality (even digital HDTV & Audio) into the PC, compress it and write it to DVD from there.

I don't record anything on the Sony that I want to keep permenantly, I'd do that on my PC directly, I just use the Sony for time-shifting (sometimes several months but never to view more than once).

I'd not seen info on the Mag 515H before, but, looking at it now, it appears it lacks the program guide our Sonys have, which I'd sorely miss. It also has the issue of only taking composite or S video as input (unless you have a way to convert output from the Sony to work thru the DV input jack on the front panel). Before going with a DVR that doesn't have a program guide, I'd go to a PC with Media center. Right now my Sony is working fine again, and, I'm using my PC as a secondary DVR, because I still like using the Sony better, but, if the Sony has many more problems, I may just buy another USB tuner (or two at $30 each) and go solely with the Media Center solution.

As you noted, the video in for most recorders is composite or S-Video, not very good quality. You can get component or even HDMI video input for PCs which would allow you to take high quality (even digital HDTV & Audio) into the PC, compress it and write it to DVD from there.

I don't record anything on the Sony that I want to keep permenantly, I'd do that on my PC directly, I just use the Sony for time-shifting (sometimes several months but never to view more than once).

I'd not seen info on the Mag 515H before, but, looking at it now, it appears it lacks the program guide our Sonys have, which I'd sorely miss. It also has the issue of only taking composite or S video as input (unless you have a way to convert output from the Sony to work thru the DV input jack on the front panel). Before going with a DVR that doesn't have a program guide, I'd go to a PC with Media center. Right now my Sony is working fine again, and, I'm using my PC as a secondary DVR, because I still like using the Sony better, but, if the Sony has many more problems, I may just buy another USB tuner (or two at $30 each) and go solely with the Media Center solution.

There are alternatives to the DHG, but none I find as easy to use, as classy, and as much fun. A while back I said it wasn't a DVR, it was an adventure. I still feel that way. The use of a PC is much better for many aspects of time shifting and/or archives. I bought a Toshiba for that purpose a while ago but lost interest. I still use my old Dell PC for Hulu or network sites to watch programs that I may have missed. There are many, many ways to acquire and store content. We are very lucky to live now and see all the s* going on. I grew up with "don't touch that dial", yet - this is true - I use a IBM 3270 emulator to do my job. So since I only have 24 hours to use every day, I find the DHG perfect for my needs and wish and wish and wish that Sony would make something to replace it. You like the guide. I get my selections of guides via the internet. My laptop with Win7 and WMC is amazing and I use it for music almost daily. I fits that niche for me. But I record three or more hours of HD content daily, no fees, and the DGH does a superior job with that.

I've never found a VCR or DVDR with component input.

Each of my three DHGs has an RDR-HX900 connected to its component output. I settle for recording to DVD while I wait for Blu-ray media to become affordable. The HX900s allow me to edit out commercials, etc. I have been very satisfied with the image quality of the resultant DVDs, YMMV.

Thanks folks for all the comments. I really don't need HD recording for anything that I want to keep permanently. SD will do fine. I have a lot of old Redskin VHS tapes that I recorded in their glory days (during the 80's) I would like to put them on DVDs 1 because they are begining to show signs of degradation and 2 because I could use the shelf space they are taking up now. I was thinking about a combo DVDR and VHS, but I wanted to make sure that I could use the DVDR to save any programs (mainly Redskin games) that I record on the DHS to DVD. I don't even have a dvd recorder now, and I don't know what to look for to make sure it is compatible with the DGH output. That was the basis of my question.

Richard

Each of my three DHGs has an RDR-HX900 connected to its component output. I settle for recording to DVD while I wait for Blu-ray media to become affordable. The HX900s allow me to edit out commercials, etc. I have been very satisfied with the image quality of the resultant DVDs, YMMV.

Guess my search wasn't too extensive, sorry. I have a box of tapes for a Mistu 20000 that I have used to rebuild a DHG. I works, but it's not pretty. I'd bet that the DHG outlives V8 TVGOS. It's sad that some future looking Sony engineer never made that USB port available for output. Wouldn't that have been wonderful!

Thanks folks for all the comments. I really don't need HD recording for anything that I want to keep permanently. SD will do fine. I have a lot of old Redskin VHS tapes that I recorded in their glory days (during the 80's) I would like to put them on DVDs 1 because they are begining to show signs of degradation and 2 because I could use the shelf space they are taking up now. I was thinking about a combo DVDR and VHS, but I wanted to make sure that I could use the DVDR to save any programs (mainly Redskin games) that I record on the DHS to DVD. I don't even have a dvd recorder now, and I don't know what to look for to make sure it is compatible with the DGH output. That was the basis of my question.

Richard

Well, the Mag 513H 320GB DVR and DVD Recorder records up to 387 hours. You could then offload to DVD or change the HDD. It takes about 30 minutes. They are $200 new at Walmart now. It does all forms of DVD except DVD-RAM. And composite video or S-Video are pretty much standard. Only issue you might run into is in preserving the wide screen bit. If 4x3 is your recording method (for the tapes) then you are good to go with probably anything you find on eBay or stored in someone's attic.

It's sad that some future looking Sony engineer never made that USB port available for output.

I believe it's within the realm of possibility that an RS232 terminal on the G-link port and the 963852741 code (File System Shell) would allow file transfer, both ways, between a USB flash drive and the hard drive. Whether that would actually be useful or the on drive format prove too opaque is another question. I don't expect to be able to test this for myself anytime soon, but I remain intrigued.

I believe it's within the realm of possibility that an RS232 terminal on the G-link port and the 963852741 code (File System Shell) would allow file transfer, both ways, between a USB flash drive and the hard drive. Whether that would actually be useful or the on drive format prove too opaque is another question. I don't expect to be able to test this for myself anytime soon, but I remain intrigued.

Mighty big optimism. That will happen after there is a Sony technical reference manual and the source code is placed in the public domain. But stranger things have happened. All it takes is one pissed off Sony employee. You never know.

I see this morning that the HostSUFlag reads 0xff8, which I believe is as far as it goes. However, there is no grid or listings of any kind. I guess I was assuming that I would at least have a grid. I do have a Host channel. Maybe someone can set me straight.

Richard

I see this morning that the HostSUFlag reads 0xff8, which I believe is as far as it goes. However, there is no grid or listings of any kind. I guess I was assuming that I would at least have a grid. I do have a Host channel. Maybe someone can set me straight.

Richard

Bring up the TVGOS, and go to the setup menu. Scroll down to 'change channel display'... or something like that (doing this off the top of my head), and see if you actually have a channel lineup, but all the channels are off. If it shows stations there, then just turn on a couple of the channels, and exit back out. Bring up the TVGOS again, and then you will see that you have a grid (with only the channels you just turned on). If that works, then exit the TVGOS, and try tuning each station using the channel up/down. Stay on each station for about 10 seconds. After doing that on a couple of stations, then bring up the TVGOS again, and see if it hasn't turned on those stations in the grid. I don't know if this 'auto turn on' method will work for cablecards, but it works for OTA.

Mark

Bring up the TVGOS, and go to the setup menu. Scroll down to 'change channel display'... or something like that (doing this off the top of my head), and see if you actually have a channel lineup, but all the channels are off. If it shows stations there, then just turn on a couple of the channels, and exit back out. Bring up the TVGOS again, and then you will see that you have a grid (with only the channels you just turned on). If that works, then exit the TVGOS, and try tuning each station using the channel up/down. Stay on each station for about 10 seconds. After doing that on a couple of stations, then bring up the TVGOS again, and see if it hasn't turned on those stations in the grid. I don't know if this 'auto turn on' method will work for cablecards, but it works for OTA.

Mark

Mark: Thanks, I tried what you said and when I click on change channel display I just get the screen telling me "No Data for this screen". Going to the channel editor through the menu button I do get a list of channels each of which has check mark on it.

I see this morning that the HostSUFlag reads 0xff8 ... there is no grid

The Comcast "template" for TVGOS support includes an analog host, as well as a digital host. The "0xff8 means you get a grid" assumes a digital host. My experience on Comcast is that without tuning to a digital host and leaving it on, it almost always chooses the analog host. I don't know what others have seen, this is mostly a cable only situation now and doesn't get discussed much, but for me it's been "turn the DHG off and wait a little longer." It seems to still need more lineup packets or maybe just "alone time" at this point.

Anyway, check to see if your DHG has chosen an analog host. It's my guess that it has.

The Comcast "template" for TVGOS support includes an analog host, as well as a digital host. The "0xff8 means you get a grid" assumes a digital host. My experience on Comcast is that without tuning to a digital host and leaving it on, it almost always chooses the analog host. I don't know what others have seen, this is mostly a cable only situation now and doesn't get discussed much, but for me it's been "turn the DHG off and wait a little longer." It seems to still need more lineup packets or maybe just "alone time" at this point.

Anyway, check to see if your DHG has chosen an analog host. It's my guess that it has.

Mark; The host channel indicated is 1:122-0, the VBI Channel indicated is 1:0-212, which is the cable number for our CBS tygos station. I am not sure what 1:122-0 is. I think it was suggested that this was the physical channel for cable 212. which is digital. Bye the way, the entire time that the data was coming in it has been tuned to cable 212 (CBS)

Richard

elderthomas -

You could try the "All Channels On" command if you like, to attempt to force the Grid to appear. Just be aware that if it works all of your potential channels will be turned "On" in the Grid. It will be time consuming to go through afterwards and manually turn "Off" each of the 500 or so channels that you don't really want to be "On".

If you want to try it anyway, go to Guide screen, scroll to top of page, scoot over to Setup, cursor down once, press 123123123. If it works, you will have a Grid with all channels turned on. :eek:

BTW, regarding your comment about being "tuned to channel 212"........... when you turn the DVR off, it "tunes itself" through the channels searching for TVGOS data. When you turn it back on, it returns automatically to the channel you had it tuned to when you turned it off.

The host channel indicated is 1:122-0

You definitely have a digital host. Perhaps what is going on is that since you have not yet selected a lineup, ever, your DHG needs a little more past the 0xff8 completed. Patience, you're almost there. Those that "can never get a grid" have been stopped short of 0xff8.

elderthomas -

You could try the "All Channels On" command if you like, to attempt to force the Grid to appear. Just be aware that if it works all of your potential channels will be turned "On" in the Grid. It will be time consuming to go through afterwards and manually turn "Off" each of the 500 or so channels that you don't really want to be "On".

If you want to try it anyway, go to Guide screen, scroll to top of page, scoot over to Setup, cursor down once, press 123123123. If it works, you will have a Grid with all channels turned on. :eek:

BTW, regarding your comment about being "tuned to channel 212"........... when you turn the DVR off, it "tunes itself" through the channels searching for TVGOS data. When you turn it back on, it returns automatically to the channel you had it tuned to when you turned it off.

Mark: I tried the 123... and a grid came up with lots of channels but no listings. I will probably spend my liesure time turning off all the superflous channels. I am assuming I will just have to wait for the listings. I am grateful to be this far. Thanks alot for all your help.

Richard

Mark: I tried the 123...

Nice to see that it worked! :):):) But I'm not Mark, I'm Dave. :p
The Listings should start showing up almost immediately if you leave the DVR tuned to the HostChan (122). The Listings will be downloaded even while the DVR is turned "On" as long as you're tuned to the Host. :)

Nice to see that it worked! :):):) But I'm not Mark, I'm Dave. :p
The Listings should start showing up almost immediately if you leave the DVR tuned to the HostChan (122). The Listings will be downloaded even while the DVR is turned "On" as long as you're tuned to the Host. :)

Sorry about the name goof Dave; I had been getting some guidance from Mark. and didn't pay close attention to the names on the postings. I am still a little confused. Is 122 the Physical channel for cable 212?

Richard

Probably, but it's more likely "122.1". If you have another TV (that has a QAM tuner) connected directly to the cable line, you can test it for yourself by attempting to tune 122.1 directly. Don't attempt to test this with the Sony DVR, because if you pull the CableCard and turn on the DVR (with the CableCard out) you'll almost certainly lose your brand spankin' new Grid. When the Sony has the CableCard installed, it loses the ability to tune QAM channels.

I have four ways to get TVGOS data to my three DHG's. Both CBS and PBS here carry TVGOS data. And I can tune both of these OTA as well as over cable. My DHG's randomly choose one channel or the other as Host, and sometimes choose OTA and other times choose Cable for the signal. When they choose OTA sometimes the HostChan is displayed as the physical channel and sometimes as the virtual channel. When they choose Cable, my HostChan is always displayed as the QAM (physical cable) channel number. This applies to the ClockSet channel as well.

Sorry about the name goof Dave; I had been getting some guidance from Mark. and didn't pay close attention to the names on the postings. I am still a little confused. Is 122 the Physical channel for cable 212?

Richard

Please keep Dave's name in mind as you are turning off those hundreds of channels ;).

Mark

Please keep Dave's name in mind as you are turning off those hundreds of channels ;).

Mark

Finally having a Grid for the first time kind of takes the edge off of going through about 700 channels. In going through the channels I notice that there are lots of channels that we don't have in our local comcast service. I suspect that I have listings for a different area, which is not suprising since I put in the zip code for an area a little closer to the tygos station. It was after that when I started getting data. If I changed the zipcode to another area where I am sure they have the same cable channels, how would this affect the grid? Would I lose it?

Richard

Finally having a Grid for the first time kind of takes the edge off of going through about 700 channels. In going through the channels I notice that there are lots of channels that we don't have in our local comcast service. I suspect that I have listings for a different area, which is not suprising since I put in the zip code for an area a little closer to the tygos station. It was after that when I started getting data. If I changed the zipcode to another area where I am sure they have the same cable channels, how would this affect the grid? Would I lose it?

Richard

Were you never asked to select a specific cable source? Should you enter your real zipcode, the proper lineup and listing should display. If not, start with Rovi and work your way down the food chain. You're getting data. The zipcode is the selector for a proper guide display. Getting data is important. Getting the right data is more important.

Were you never asked to select a specific cable source? Should you enter your real zipcode, the proper lineup and listing should display. If not, start with Rovi and work your way down the food chain. You're getting data. The zipcode is the selector for a proper guide display. Getting data is important. Getting the right data is more important.

No I never saw any option of selecting a cable source. Where and when should I have seen this. Also what will I lose if I change the zipcode?

Richard

No I never saw any option of selecting a cable source. Where and when should I have seen this. Also what will I lose if I change the zipcode?

Richard

Well, it's possible that you only have one cable feed and lineup with the zipcode you entered. I guess that would be ok, but I never saw it. Others may have. Richard, everything needs to work together. A zipcode, time zone, cable feed, and a properly programmed TVGOS inserter. When all those items come together it's a happy day. Otherwise, you spend time here trying to figure out what's wrong. That's life and I can't fix it.

You would have been asked the question when the grid was loaded but there was more than one lineup possible from the headend that sends your signal. Your rural area may only have one set of listings. I have three on my feed and I think my area could be also listed as rural. But my cable company is really small. There are 8 cable companies within 50 miles. Comcast is, perhaps, the largest.

. . . In going through the channels I notice that there are lots of channels that we don't have in our local comcast service.............

I've always used my proper zipcode, and find the same thing as you're seeing. There are tons of channels in my "potential" Lineup that are not available on any Cable system in my area, or OTA. My feeling is that Rovi doesn't really create "Lineups" down to a specific zipcode level, but rather sends you multiple "groups" of channels which include the ones you need and many many extra ones too. And if you're like me, you'll be missing one that you want too. :eek:

I think the thing that is more zipcode specific is the channel numbers assigned to the channel names, although I always find that many of those are wrong as well. :rolleyes:

No I never saw any option of selecting a cable source. Where and when should I have seen this...............

Typically when you wake up in the morning, or come home from work in the evening, after waiting for days or weeks for your Grid. You turn on the DVR and are presented with the question to "confirm your Cable system" and given a choice or two. After you answer, the Grid appears. I'm not sure what (or if) the question is asked if your zipcode only has one possible choice. I always have two choices in my area, although both are different Charter systems.

........... what will I lose if I change the zipcode?


I don't think you'll lose your Grid. But I believe that under some circumstances your Listings will stop updating. Mark or HP may know for sure.

BTW, I'm assuming that your Listings have started to fill in by now?

Also, I don't know if anyone has pointed this out to you......... The fewer channels you keep on your Grid, the faster and smoother the DVR operates. For me, I try to limit myself to 25 or 30 channels on the Grid. YMMV.

I don't think you'll lose your Grid. But I believe that under some circumstances your Listings will stop updating. Mark or HP may know for sure.

BTW, I'm assuming that your Listings have started to fill in by now?

Also, I don't know if anyone has pointed this out to you......... The fewer channels you keep on your Grid, the faster and smoother the DVR operates. For me, I try to limit myself to 25 or 30 channels on the Grid. YMMV.

The listings have not started filling in yet. Do you get the channels off the grid by turning them off in the channel editing menu? Do you think I didn't get the question about choosing a cable system because if forced the grid to appear by using the 123... menu.?

Richard

The listings have not started filling in yet. Do you get the channels off the grid by turning them off in the channel editing menu? Do you think I didn't get the question about choosing a cable system because if forced the grid to appear by using the 123... menu.?

Richard

The "cheat code" is probably why you didn't get the question. However if you change your zip code back to your real zip code now, you'll probably get a second chance to answer the question when your host channel sets again. Now that you have a grid you will continue to get listings even without your host channel set, so don't be concerned that you might lose the grid. Changing the zip code causes the host channel to blank, and the HostSUFlags to recycle, and the DVR searches for a host channel again, so you can monitor its progress if you want, but you'll continue to get listings. You should have listings tomorrow morning.

Mark

Do you get the channels off the grid by turning them off in the channel editing menu?

Yes.

Do you think I didn't get the question about choosing a cable system because if forced the grid to appear by using the 123... menu?

I don't know. In my experience with these units, my HostChan sets, Cable System Question is asked, then Grid appears all at the same time.... like bang, bang, bang. But I do have more than one choice for Cable system. Once I setup one of my DVR's for OTA only......... but I don't recall if it asked me any Questions then or just went straight into the Grid. Personally, I've never had to resort to the 123123123 command. Very few of us here have actually tried it, to my knowledge. So your experience with it will be valuable.

It is strange that you haven't received any Listings yet. Unless you've had your DVR "on" and tuned to other than your CBS station all day long? :confused: But sometimes there are periods of a day or two when Rovi seems to stop sending out updated Listings....... I notice that I currently have no Listings for Day-8, so maybe one of those periods has started today? If that's the case, you will not get any Listings until the transmissions resume from Rovi. Maybe that's also why you had no Cable System Question and no Grid to appear on its own?

Mark, Mark, Mark . . . . . where are you when we need you?

I don't know. In my experience with these units, my HostChan sets, Cable System Question is asked, then Grid appears all at the same time.... like bang, bang, bang. But I do have more than one choice for Cable system. Once I setup one of my DVR's for OTA only......... but I don't recall if it asked me any Questions then or just went straight into the Grid.

OTA goes right to the grid no questions asked. Also, from what I can tell my grid appears at the same time that my host channel sets, although with analog the host channel sets first, and the grid follows some time later.


It is strange that you haven't received any Listings yet. Unless you've had your DVR "on" and tuned to other than your CBS station all day long? :confused: But sometimes there are periods of a day or two when Rovi seems to stop sending out updated Listings....... I notice that I currently have no Listings for Day-8, so maybe one of those periods has started today? If that's the case, you will not get any Listings until the transmissions resume from Rovi. Maybe that's also why you had no Cable System Question and no Grid to appear on its own?


He only has had one ID70 download (that's the listings) since he got his grid. That would have happened from 3:06 - 3:31pm, so it isn't a huge surprise to me that he doesn't have listings yet, although I'd think he would have gotten some listing data during that one download. There is always the possibility that there is a listings outage. It will be interesting to see what happens tonight.

Mark, Mark, Mark . . . . . where are you when we need you?

I'm here, but I'm not sure what you needed me for.

Mark

This morning my Day-8 listings are about 80% complete, but there are no ads.

elderthomas, do you have any Listings yet?

.............. I'm here, but I'm not sure what you needed me for.

Mark

I was hoping for some thoughts on my idea that maybe if there was a Listings outage, that could have caused the lack of the "Question" and also prevented the Grid from appearing? But I see that you instead blamed it on the "Cheat Code" . . . . . ;););)

This morning my Day-8 listings are about 80% complete, but there are no ads.

elderthomas, do you have any Listings yet?



I was hoping for some thoughts on my idea that maybe if there was a Listings outage, that could have caused the lack of the "Question" and also prevented the Grid from appearing? But I see that you instead blamed it on the "Cheat Code" . . . . . ;););)

The cable question is tied to the channel lineup not the listings. It determines what cable system you are on, and then maps certain channels to the right channels for that cable system. For example cable system 1 may map CBS to channel 200.1, and cable system 2 may map CBS to channel 300.1. If you are on cable system 1, but you tell the DVR you are on cable system 2 then CBS will get mapped to 300.1 instead of 200.1, and you'll have to manually edit it (and possibly dozens of other channels) to the correct channel.

My ads were gone yesterday. My host channel set last night, but I didn't notice if the ads were back this morning.

Mark

This morning my Day-8 listings are about 80% complete, but there are no ads.

elderthomas, do you have any Listings yet?



I am begining to get some listings now. Also last night I changed the Zipcode to the area where the comcast facility is located, hoping that I would get channels that are consistent with my service. However, as of now the HostSUFlag is still 0X80000000. This is what happened previously when I used my own zipcode. It would never go further than 0x8. I will wait it out for the next night. I am beginning to suspect that I should have waited awhile before using the 123... process on it. I might have gotten the option to pick a cable provider. What is the best way to get rid of all those channels that I have now in the listing. If I get a new channel lineup from using the new zipcode, will they be added to the ones there now?

Richard

You see Mark, this is why we need you. I can never seem to remember some of these things, like the "best" way to zap the Lineup. I know several ways to do it, but which is best?

elderthomas........ I believe that by setting your zipcode to "00000" temporarily it will blank out your Lineup without causing you to lose your TVGOS patches. MARK will know for sure if this is true.

A couple of things to consider:

After you have a Grid, the HostChan being "set" is meaningless on these Sony's in the digital TVGOS world.

Unless you are missing some channel that you need in your Lineup, it probably makes no sense to attempt to get a different Lineup by changing to an adjacent zipcode. In my experience, the channels in your overall Lineup are going to be the same regardless.

And if you are missing a channel in your Lineup, changing the zipcode probably won't help anyway. I found that out through personal experience.

The main difference (as Mark indicated) when you are allowed to "pick your provider" is in the channel number assignment. And the numbers they assign will likely need to be edited anyway because they are often incorrect. In any case, editing the channel numbers is an easy thing to do.

A new channel Lineup always replaces the existing one, not adds to it. However, Rovi can sometimes add channels to your Lineup (I'm not sure if they re-send the whole thing or not to accomplish this). I've also sometimes had channels randomly "turn themselves on" and appear on the Grid, but I'm not sure what causes that. That seems to occur more often since I have the CableCards than it did prior.

Unless you are missing some channel that you need in your Lineup, it probably makes no sense to attempt to get a different Lineup by changing to an adjacent zipcode. In my experience, the channels in your overall Lineup are going to be the same regardless.

And if you are missing a channel in your Lineup, changing the zipcode probably won't help anyway. I found that out through personal experience.

The main difference (as Mark indicated) when you are allowed to "pick your provider" is in the channel number assignment. And the numbers they assign will likely need to be edited anyway because they are often incorrect. In any case, editing the channel numbers is an easy thing to do.



A lot of the channels are incorrectly named in the lineup I have now. I think I will wait and see if I get a lineup using the current zip and go from there. Based on my previous experience it will probably take about 3 days, if I get it at all. I am hoping I get a choice of selecting a cable provider. I would think that some channels could be eliminated in that selection.

Richard

OTA goes right to the grid no questions asked.

Mark

Up until a couple years ago, that wasn't true here and it used to irritate me no end when I'd be asked if I wanted Los Angeles broadcast or Bakersfield broadcast. Apparently no one at Rovi ever looked at a topography map and noticed the really, really tall mountains between the two. :D

I am begining to get some listings now. Also last night I changed the Zipcode to the area where the comcast facility is located, hoping that I would get channels that are consistent with my service. However, as of now the HostSUFlag is still 0X80000000. This is what happened previously when I used my own zipcode. It would never go further than 0x8. I will wait it out for the next night. I am beginning to suspect that I should have waited awhile before using the 123... process on it. I might have gotten the option to pick a cable provider. What is the best way to get rid of all those channels that I have now in the listing. If I get a new channel lineup from using the new zipcode, will they be added to the ones there now?

Richard

Your HostSUFlags is only getting to 0x80000000 because the zip codes you are entering do not "belong" to the Washington DC (WUSA), or Baltimore (WJZ) DMAs. From what I gather your zip code should be included in one of those, so this is a Rovi problem. You can either just leave your zip code the way it is, or you could contact Rovi, and try to get them to fix it. Note that when you contact Rovi, they will give you a spiel about the Sony not being a supported device, even though this isn't a Sony problem. You might have to contact them a second time pointing out that your zip code not being recognized by their system is not a Sony problem. They'll eventually go off script, and actually listen to what you are saying.

Channel lineup = Grid. Unfortunately the only way to wipe out the channel lineup (grid) is to do a reset to factory defaults. I don't think you would want to go through that again. I think if you changed your zip code to a Baltimore zip code, the Sony would then start getting data from WJZ, instead of WUSA. When the host channel sets, you will probably get the cable selection screen that you missed last time. Then you could change it back to a Washington DC zip code, and go through the process again to get the cable selection screen for WUSA. I could be wrong though, and both stations may give you the same channel lineup, in which case you may not get the cable selection screen.

Mark

A lot of the channels are incorrectly named in the lineup I have now. I think I will wait and see if I get a lineup using the current zip and go from there. Based on my previous experience it will probably take about 3 days, if I get it at all. I am hoping I get a choice of selecting a cable provider. I would think that some channels could be eliminated in that selection.

Richard

Your current path will be a slow one. You might as well change your zip to 00000 for a few minutes to flush the bad line up that is building and then change it to reality. Wait a day then see what happens when you hit the guide button. If it says "No Data", then give it another day. Cable can have several lineups from one feed (or office/headend). Some more than others. It might only be a minor difference, but it sounds like you have a major difference. Take the reality route and have patience. You are getting data. Some people have lost that. Count your blessings. Since you are in the east, "days" will start at 3am. That's when I see stuff happen. Yesterday there was some data confusion, as was observed, but today seems solid so far. And follow Mark's advice over mine.

..............
Channel lineup = Grid . . .


????? ......... Not in my book. But my book may have some chapters missing . . . :eek:

To me, the Grid is the X-Y (Excel Spreadsheet like) place where the Listings appear when you press the Guide button. And the Lineup is the entire list of channels that you are able to turn "Off" or "On" (in the channel editor) to appear on the aforementioned Grid.

But I've been wrong before ........ once ... :D:D:D

You see Mark, this is why we need you. I can never seem to remember some of these things, like the "best" way to zap the Lineup. I know several ways to do it, but which is best?

elderthomas........ I believe that by setting your zipcode to "00000" temporarily it will blank out your Lineup without causing you to lose your TVGOS patches. MARK will know for sure if this is true.


The channel lineup is actually the grid. So there is no way to wipe out the channel lineup without doing a reset to factory defaults. When we reset the DVR, and wait, and wait, and wait, it is the channel lineup that we are waiting for. Channels turned on in the channel lineup form the grid. If there are no channels to turn on, then there is no grid.

Mark

I think I will wait and see if I get a lineup using the current zip and go from there. Based on my previous experience it will probably take about 3 days, if I get it at all.

I don't believe that you will get a new Lineup unless you deliberately (or accidentally) zap the existing Lineup.

????? ......... Not in my book. But my book may have some chapters missing . . . :eek:

To me, the Grid is the X-Y (Excel Spreadsheet like) place where the Listings appear when you press the Guide button. And the Lineup is the entire list of channels that you are able to turn "Off" or "On" (in the channel editor) to appear on the aforementioned Grid.

But I've been wrong before ........ once ... :D:D:D

If you turn off all the channels in the channel editor screen, and go back to the "grid" you get the same 'no data for this screen' message that you get when you are waiting for a grid (the grid is gone). The only thing that makes the grid is turned on channels in the channel lineup.

Mark

A lot of the channels are incorrectly named in the lineup I have now. I think I will wait and see if I get a lineup using the current zip and go from there. Based on my previous experience it will probably take about 3 days, if I get it at all. I am hoping I get a choice of selecting a cable provider. I would think that some channels could be eliminated in that selection.

Richard

Hey, I just had a brain fart storm... I think you can go back to the TVGOS setup, and tell it that everything is "ok, but my channel lineup is incorrect", and get the lineup selection screen again.

Mark

If you turn off all the channels in the channel editor screen, and go back to the "grid" you get the same 'no data for this screen' message that you get when you are waiting for a grid (the grid is gone).

I've wondered about that, but never had the guts to try it. After you've turned them all off, do you need to use "all channels on" to recover, or is there another way to go just turn on a few?

I've wondered about that, but never had the guts to try it. After you've turned them all off, do you need to use "all channels on" to recover, or is there another way to go just turn on a few?

Well, it is much easier to do when you only have 10 or 12 channels turned on like I do ;). To turn them back on you just go back to the channel editor and turn them back on one at a time.

Mark

After installing the Cox Dig to Analog tuner in line my 250 once again shows the time. The problem is it's 6 hours 10 minutes off.

Does the same supplier for TV Guide send out the time?

How do you find your host channel, and if your HDD is set to the correct channel? I live in Va Beach, VA 23454

Need a little more info to see if the power outage did anything other than mess with your clock.

Go into your guide screens and navigate across the top to setup and select it. Move down one to Change Settings but do not press select. Instead, enter the following number from your keypad: 753159852. That will display an info screen.

Look in the top left corner at the GMT date/time. The time should be exactly 5 hours ahead of your current time. Also you should see [3] following the time. Now just below there are some data lines. The second line should start 08.01.40/08.06.44. If you don't have 08.06.44, what is there?

Lastly, press DOWN twice on the remote to go to the clocks 1 screen. In the offset (sec) from UTC you should see -21600.


as of today:
actual date & time
12-23-10
3:52 pm

HHD reads
12-22-10
14:41 [2]

08.01.42/08.06.44

offset(sec) -18000

What's this telling me?

as of today:
actual date & time
12-23-10
3:52 pm

HHD reads
12-22-10
14:41 [2]

08.01.42/08.06.44

offset(sec) -18000

What's this telling me?

Here is what it tells me:
You are running the old firmware, and you probably have power cycled the DHG recently. The [2] means you aren't getting the data to set the clock, and you need to run the G* Test. This should get your clock back pretty quick.

Mark

It's been cycled twice in the last week, I'm not sure it was receiving a signal during those cycles.

How do I do th G* test?

It's been cycled twice in the last week, I'm not sure it was receiving a signal during those cycles.

How do I do th G* test?

Tune to OTA 3.1 WTKR. Go the the same place you entered 753159852 (SETUP / Change system settings) to show your firmware version. Enter 971397135. Because you are still running the old firmware you should see VBI Counts. Don't worry whether the VBI Test passes or fails, it you see counts, consider it a PASS. Wait at least thirty seconds on this screen, then press EXIT. That should get your clock set. If your timezone is not set, you'll have to wait a few minutes still tuned to WTKR to get your DHG from UTC to EST.

After installing the Cox Dig to Analog tuner in line my 250 once again shows the time.

Would you elaborate on what this device is? Did Cox recently switch all their analog channels to digital? If so that is probably what caused your problem. Up until now your DHG has probably had an analog host channel from Cox, which would explain why in the year and a half since the digital transition you have never had to run the G* Test before. If your host channel is now digital, then you'll probably want to upgrade the Sony firmware to the latest version (1.2.21), which will avoid this kind of problem in the future.

Mark

After watching the 0x80000000 on the HostSUFlags all day, I decided that I probably wasn't going to get anything using the zip code of the comcast location. So I changed it to a Dunkirk, MD zip about 7 miles north of my location, but an area that I believe is served by the same comcast station. Sure enough about an hour later I got 0xc2800000 I will leave it there and hopefully get an option to select my cable service. I just hope a new lineup will replace the old one, as Dave indicated.

Richard

Thanks for all of the information;

>Yes cox did just change from analog to ditital, I've added to dig to analog tuner box

>I'm not picking up OTA 3.1 right now, I'll have to adjust my antenna tomorrow.

>How do I upgrade my frameware, I have currently 1.2.09?

Once again thank you

How do I upgrade my frameware

Go Here: Sony DHG Firmware Version 1.2.21 (http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-download.pl?upd_id=4542&mdl=DHGHDD250#)

Put the files on an old, small flash drive. Plug it in. Follow the instructions.

After watching the 0x80000000 on the HostSUFlags all day, I decided that I probably wasn't going to get anything using the zip code of the comcast location. So I changed it to a Dunkirk, MD zip about 7 miles north of my location, but an area that I believe is served by the same comcast station. Sure enough about an hour later I got 0xc2800000 I will leave it there and hopefully get an option to select my cable service. I just hope "a new lineup will replace the old one", as Dave indicated.

Richard

A new Lineup will replace the existing one, but only after the exisiting one is forced to go away, by a Reset or other means performed by YOU. Otherwise you will simply continue to get Listings for your existing Lineup.

Try what Mark says here if you want to zap your existing Lineup: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19697171#post19697171

But my guess is that after waiting again for the "new" Lineup, you'll find it to be the same as the one you have now. Hopefully I'm wrong . . .

A new Lineup will replace the existing one, but only after the exisiting one is forced to go away, by a Reset or other means performed by YOU. Otherwise you will simply continue to get Listings for your existing Lineup.

Try what Mark says here if you want to zap your existing Lineup: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19697171#post19697171

But my guess is that after waiting again for the "new" Lineup, you'll find it to be the same as the one you have now. Hopefully I'm wrong . . .

That won't zap the lineup, but it should immediately let him choose his cable provider (which he didn't have a chance to do the first time). I corrected the wording in that message to what it actually says on the screen.

Mark

Go Here: Sony DHG Firmware Version 1.2.21 (http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-download.pl?upd_id=4542&mdl=DHGHDD250#)

Put the files on an old, small flash drive. Plug it in. Follow the instructions.

I've tried it twice, downloaded the files, unzipped, moved the sony folder to a flash drive, put it in the 250 and nothing happens. The unit and TV are on. Any idea as to what I am doing wrong?

It's a 4 GB flash drive, could that be the problem?

I've tried it twice, downloaded the files, unzipped, moved the sony folder to a flash drive, put it in the 250 and nothing happens. The unit and TV are on. Any idea as to what I am doing wrong?

It's a 4 GB flash drive, could that be the problem?

I doubt 4GB is old and small. But I would power on the DHG, hit EXIT if the guide is showing, then insert the drive. All that matters is the Sony folder and its contents. Other stuff on the drive is ignored. I have a 2gb drive that works, but it's from Sony. I used it on an older BR.

It's a 4 GB flash drive, could that be the problem?

Yes. I have a 4GB Sandisk that doesn't work. I have successfully used 256mb and 1GB flash drives with the Sony's.

I've tried it twice, downloaded the files, unzipped, moved the sony folder to a flash drive, put it in the 250 and nothing happens. The unit and TV are on. Any idea as to what I am doing wrong?

It's a 4 GB flash drive, could that be the problem?

I have recently done this with a brand new 8 GB drive, I had previuosly used an old 512 M drive. I originally posted this in another forum, it should resolve your problem:

I have also experienced problems when trying to upgrade from a USB stick that I had used previously to upgrade. Here is how I got it to work:

1) Remove the USB stick from the Sony.
2) Pull the power plug on the Sony.
3) Plug the Sony back in (doesn't matter how long you wait).
4) Let the Sony come up, and go through its initialization.
5) Turn the Sony on.
6) Re-insert the USB stick into the Sony.

If the USB stick still isn't recognized, then do all those steps again. Make sure you don't have the USB stick plugged into the Sony, until after you turn the Sony on when the power is reapplied. If doing this twice still doesn't work, then use another USB stick, and start over at step 1.

Mark

Got it to work, had to go to Rat Shak for a "Scan Disk Cruzer" 4 Gb

now running 1.2.21

Thanks for the help!!!

Bingo...removed the cox dig to ana tuner, reconnected the cable input and the clock is correct for the first time in 3 weeks :D

Got it to work, had to go to Rat Shak for a "Scan Disk Cruzer" 4 Gb

now running 1.2.21

Thanks for the help!!!

Bingo...removed the cox dig to ana tuner, reconnected the cable input and the clock is correct for the first time in 3 weeks :D

Leave it alone for a while. But when you feel it's time, check the Host & ClkSetChan for us. I'm curious what the DHG thinks about what Cox is feeding you.

Leave it alone for a while. But when you feel it's time, check the Host & ClkSetChan for us. I'm curious what the DHG thinks about what Cox is feeding you.

I just checked the guide and it's already populating. I assume it's coming from analog CBS channel 3. The unit does not have a cable card and for some reason it's not picking and OTA signal. My Sony 50a10 attached to the same antenna does.

That won't zap the lineup, but it should immediately let him choose his cable provider (which he didn't have a chance to do the first time). I corrected the wording in that message to what it actually says on the screen.

Mark

As I mentioned before I changed the zip code because it was sitting at 0x80000000 with no sign of anything else coming in. after reading your posts about having to get rid of the old lineup. I tried a reset. As you might have expected that didn't do it. But after sitting over night this morning when I looked at the guide screen, there was a list of providers, one of which was Calvert county Comcast, which is my provider. I selected that and then looked at the lineup. I saw about all of my normal cable channels plus a list of about 400 channels with no channel numbers which were all turned off. I selected about 50 of the channels that I normally watch and turned all the rest off. I may thin the list some more yet. I don't have complete listings yet, but things look promising.

Bye the way I bought a Magnavox 515H DVR/Dvdr. I have a bunch of old Redskin games on VHS tapes which I want to put on DVD. Plus I thought it would be a good backup for the DHG, even though it isn't HD. I haven't hooked it up yet.

Thank you everyone for all of your help. I am sure I would not have the DHG set up yet except for your guidance. A Merry Christmas to all of you and have a blessed New Year.

Richard

.......... I selected about 50 of the channels that I normally watch . . . . .

Yeah, you're probably gonna find that 50 is way too many, but YMMV. Note that you can "watch" channels even if they're not in the Guide........ Just tune them directly or with Ch-Up/Ch-Dn.

In everyday use, if your DVR reacts very slowly (or seems to not react at all) to buttons on the remote, resist the temptation to keep pressing buttons. I've found it's best to just wait it out (sometimes a minute or two) for the unit to catch up. Helps to avoid lockups that way. If you continue to press buttons, a lockup requiring a hard reset may become necessary.

If the unit consistantly seems to react slowly, I've found that a front-panel (soft) reset (press the Exit and Guide buttons together) seems to help.

As I mentioned before I changed the zip code because it was sitting at 0x80000000 with no sign of anything else coming in. after reading your posts about having to get rid of the old lineup. I tried a reset. As you might have expected that didn't do it.

But did you try telling it you have the wrong channel lineup in the setup? On the first screen of the setup, you have 3 choices:

1) Do the setup over
2) The setup is ok, but I have the wrong channel lineup
3) Everything is ok.

Number two should let you re-select your cable provider.

Mark

But did you try telling it you have the wrong channel lineup in the setup? On the first screen of the setup, you have 3 choices:

1) Do the setup over
2) The setup is ok, but I have the wrong channel lineup
3) Everything is ok.

Number two should let you re-select your cable provider.

Mark

No I didn't try that, I believe it just slipped my mind. I should have. But I am glad to be where I am now, and I probably will thin out the channel line up some more. When you turn off a channel in the edit list I assume it doesn't show up on the listings grid. I am waiting to see how well the listings fill out.

Richard

No I didn't try that, I believe it just slipped my mind. I should have. But I am glad to be where I am now, and I probably will thin out the channel line up some more. When you turn off a channel in the edit list I assume it doesn't show up on the listings grid. I am waiting to see how well the listings fill out.

Richard

Richard, you are doing well. But you did say that you "don't" have a cable card. The lineup may assume you do.

When you hit the MENU button on the remote, the guide doesn't get involved unless you select it. Under preferences, you will see a channel selection. If those numbers are not the same as the guide, it would be in your best interest to check them out since some may be different that what the guide displays. You have a fine HD recorder and it would be a shame if all you used it for was analog (vsb) or SD stations. This only applies to cable. OTA is outside my skill set this year.

Bye the way I bought a Magnavox 515H DVR/Dvdr. I have a bunch of old Redskin games on VHS tapes which I want to put on DVD. Plus I thought it would be a good backup for the DHG, even though it isn't HD. I haven't hooked it up yet.

Richard

The 515H has an amplifed rf signal on its ant out. It will obviously be connected before the Sony should you want to watch or record TV from it. Use HDMI if possible to your TV and it does support HDMI control. And that stuff I said about the guide and channels, you will find out when connecting the 515H since it has no guide. There is a large support thread on this forum. See you there. The 515H is almost as much fun as the DHG (almost).

Richard, you are doing well. But you did say that you "don't" have a cable card. The lineup may assume you do...............

I coulda swore he said he did have a CableCard . . . :confused:
In any case, the Lineup will be the same, the difference will be in the number of channels that are turned "On" by default.

[QUOTE=JoeKustra;19705629]Richard, you are doing well. But you did say that you "don't" have a cable card. The lineup may assume you do.

I do have a cable card and get a lot more chnnels that I really ever use. I am trying now to weed out the ones I seldom use so that my grid won't be so full.

I ordered the 515H from Walmart Wednesday (free standard shipping) and it arrived yesterday, really suprised me. I am looking forward to trying to get it going. We have family coming in today so I won't have much time to fool with it. I am sure I'll have questions to pose on the forum. I see a lot of useful info already posted there.

Thanks again for your help, and Merry Christmas

Richard

Leave it alone for a while. But when you feel it's time, check the Host & ClkSetChan for us. I'm curious what the DHG thinks about what Cox is feeding you.

Do I find this info with the 753159852 service code?

Host Ch "blank"
VBI ch 1:0-12

[QUOTE=JoeKustra;19705629]Richard, you are doing well. But you did say that you "don't" have a cable card. The lineup may assume you do.

I do have a cable card and get a lot more chnnels that I really ever use. I am trying now to weed out the ones I seldom use so that my grid won't be so full.

I ordered the 515H from Walmart Wednesday (free standard shipping) and it arrived yesterday, really suprised me. I am looking forward to trying to get it going. We have family coming in today so I won't have much time to fool with it. I am sure I'll have questions to pose on the forum. I see a lot of useful info already posted there.

Thanks again for your help, and Merry Christmas

Richard

Probably just a misunderstanding of what you said in post 22164. It usually takes me about an hour to kill channels I never watch and organize things.

I never record from the guide but it's good place to see what's on. Best of luck. In case you have not noticed, the channel up/down is really a 'page' up/down when in the channel editor(s). Saves time.

Do I find this info with the 753159852 service code?

Host Ch "blank"
VBI ch 1:0-12

A blank host channel is not a bad thing. Mine is blank right now. The VBI channel 1:0-12 means you were tuned to cable analog/vsb channel 12 when you ran the 753... test. If you feel you are watching a digital channel, test by: MENU->Preferences->Diagnostics and check the Mode/Rate. QAM256 is digital cable. Analog is not.

[QUOTE=JoeKustra;19705629]Richard, you are doing well. But you did say that you "don't" have a cable card. The lineup may assume you do.

I do have a cable card and get a lot more chnnels that I really ever use. I am trying now to weed out the ones I seldom use so that my grid won't be so full.

I ordered the 515H from Walmart Wednesday (free standard shipping) and it arrived yesterday, really suprised me. I am looking forward to trying to get it going. We have family coming in today so I won't have much time to fool with it. I am sure I'll have questions to pose on the forum. I see a lot of useful info already posted there.

Thanks again for your help, and Merry Christmas

Richard

My error. Too much wine.

Trouble with a discontinued unit: no happy stories from new users.

They don't know what they are missing.

I just checked the guide and it's already populating. I assume it's coming from analog CBS channel 3.

I didn't think you had analog channels any more :confused:.

Do I find this info with the 753159852 service code?

Host Ch "blank"
VBI ch 1:0-12

The blank host channel indicates the data is digital (analog data always sets the host channel). The clock channel is on the 'Clocks 2' screen, two screens down, and one screen to the right. Look at the 'Clock Set Chan' field.

Mark

I didn't think you had analog channels any more :confused:.



The blank host channel indicates the data is digital (analog data always sets the host channel). The clock channel is on the 'Clocks 2' screen, two screens down, and one screen to the right. Look at the 'Clock Set Chan' field.

Mark

Referencing the first post, 22147, seems Cox cable is involved. That might be the analog/vsb referred to. My feed is going digital too. Should be complete in about two years.

Listings are fine, but ads disappeared a while ago and have not returned in the Philadelphia area (KYW-DT 3.1 is the host). Wonder what that means.

Listings are fine, but ads disappeared a while ago and have not returned in the Philadelphia area (KYW-DT 3.1 is the host). Wonder what that means.

Same here, there were no ads last week (12/22 is when I first noticed them missing), and none so far this week.

Mark

Referencing the first post, 22147, seems Cox cable is involved. That might be the analog/vsb referred to. My feed is going digital too. Should be complete in about two years.

Yes, he has cable, but he said that his analog channels were converted to digital which is why he had started using a digital to analog converter/tuner, which apparently doesn't pass analog TVGOS data. I'm pretty certain he isn't getting analog data any more which is why he lost the listings, and had to run the G* Test for the first time ever.

Mark

I have had some conversation (messages) with someone that was a Sony insider that was involved with this unit and after asking some questions about HDD replacement I received this reply. I have no idea who he is, but from his text, I believe he is who he says he was, not just someone playing the part.The OS is linux 2.4 (2.4.18 I think), filesystems are encrypted XFS. You will not be able to put larger HDDs in the unit because the SW probably wouldn't recognize them. Also there is some magic that will prevent you from replacing the drives, this can be done only by Sony service.

The reason for this is to protect the encrypted content decoded by the CableCard. When companies produce CableCard equipment, they must take a lot of precautions to prevent theft of encrypted content because they could be held liable. The encrypted HD streams on premium channels like HBO and Showtime are very valuable.

The other reason, if I recall correctly, that drive swapping was disabled by design was to reduce overhead on Sony service. If you could swap the drives, lots of people would do it, some drives would work, others wouldn't, there would be lots of calls/etc... to Sony service and that costs time and money. Also people might be dissatisfied if they tried changing the drive and it sort of worked but rewind/FF was slow or the unit sometimes locked up -- it could give a negative impression to the product when the product is not at fault. Better to simply disable it.

Also you have to understand that not all HDDs are equal. The ones used in the DHG were selected based on a number of criteria that allowed them to perform well in a DVR application. Many other HDDs would not work as well, it is a very demanding application. I hope this answers your questions! The problem I have about the above is, TiVo allows this and so does the ill fated Dish/CM DTVPal DVR. Though you can't extract anything recorded, you can at lest swap drives.

Anyone doing this;
1. Isn't a newbie,
2. Has done this with at least a PC,
3. Realizes that it would void the warranty,
4. Also realizes that not all drives would work.

Anyone have a handle on "encripted XFS"???

The follow up to the above was this;When the DHG series was produced, Tivo had yet to turn a profit and was burning through a ton of cash every month. Tivo actually never made a profit until FY2008. So doing what Tivo did circa 2005 might have made sense for a small market segment of hackers/DIY types (like us!) but not for the business as a whole.

Another factor is that in 2005 there was no other CableCard HD DVR - the DHG was it. Again, when you sign the CableCard agreement, it has many very specific technical requirements regarding the protection of HD content. I don't know about Tivo but I do know that some other manufacturers are not meeting this spec even though they signed the contract. Such manufacturers may find themselves in real hot water one day if HBO/Showtime/etc... go on a money hunt.

Also, Sony has a lot more experience producing electronics than Tivo, and they knew that allowing the DIY crowd to swap parts in and out of units would end up costing them money from the service center end. My guess is that Tivo either didn't consider this or didn't care. They may have also wanted to encourage the DIY crowd, I'm not sure. It's also worth noting that Sony has a large content division as well, so that may be another reason they are more conservative about this sort of thing.

In any case, the worlds of "cool stuff" and "good business" don't often intersect. The DHG was cool and the 2nd generation would have been a lot cooler, but unfortunately we didn't get to make that happen. The 2nd gen would have gotten you the USB 2/external HDD solution, that was in the works. But in the end Sony decided that DVRs weren't a good business so they shelved it. And that may have been the right decision for them -- again, it took Tivo 8 years at least to turn a profit! Not many businesses can wait that long for a return.A 2nd generation DHG?? :eek:
Was it Sony or Hollywood that didn't think it was a "good business decision"? :mad:

All of the above was added to my "What's Inside" thread;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1225369

Listings are fine, but ads disappeared a while ago and have not returned in the Philadelphia area (KYW-DT 3.1 is the host). Wonder what that means.

Same for FIOS in the NYC area. No ads.

[QUOTE=elderthomas;19705851]

I never record from the guide but it's good place to see what's on. Best of luck. In case you have not noticed, the channel up/down is really a 'page' up/down when in the channel editor(s). Saves time.

Damn... you know how much time I wasted not knowing about that channel up/down trick?

BTW...no ads here, either. (Also in the Philly market)

The follow up to the above was this;A 2nd generation DHG?? :eek:
Was it Sony or Hollywood that didn't think it was a "good business decision"? :mad:

All of the above was added to my "What's Inside" thread;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1225369
Are'nt they one in the same with Sony being a content owner.
After all, why would they want you recording an OAR, commercial free, bug free movie, when they can sell you a copy. Silly.

[QUOTE=JoeKustra;19707111]

Damn... you know how much time I wasted not knowing about that channel up/down trick?

BTW...no ads here, either. (Also in the Philly market)

Another trick is to use two remotes when editing the guide. I use my universal and the original remote at the same time. Universal in one hand just doing up and down pages by CH+ and CH-. The original (as it has the scroll wheel) doing the directional controls and editing.

I'm sure you have found that if you have the channel ID selected when editing and use the CH+ and CH- buttons, you move the channel by a page at a time as well.

Does anyone get listings for the Smithsonian Channel? It doesn't appear to be in the Lineup on my DHG's or on my V9 Mits TV . . . :mad:

Does anyone get listings for the Smithsonian Channel? It doesn't appear to be in the Lineup on my DHG's or on my V9 Mits TV . . . :mad:

For my zipcode it's only on satellite.

http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/site/sn/where-to-watch.do

Try yours.

For my zipcode it's only on satellite.
http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/site/sn/where-to-watch.do


I do get the channel (on Charter) and have for quite a while. But it doesn't appear in my TVGOS lineup, unless it carries some really "off the wall" name. I'm hoping that it appears in somebody's lineup so they can at least tell me the TVGOS channel name so that I know what to look for. Thanks.

tell me the TVGOS channel name

The TV Guide channel name appears to be SMTHHD. Do you receive it on channel 763?

The TV Guide channel name appears to be SMTHHD. Do you receive it on channel 763?

Yes, I do receive it on 763. I haven't found any channels in the editor that start out "SM___". But I'm gonna go look again . . .

I have had some conversation (messages) with someone that was a Sony insider that was involved with this unit and after asking some questions about HDD replacement I received this reply. ...

Thanks for posting this information - it all sounds legit (we knew the filesystem was encrypted XFS pretty early on) and the business reasons mentioned are certainly understandable. But it's inaccurate to say they "disabled" the ability to replace the hard drives; rather, they deliberately added code to thwart the DIY crowd. I don't see how the presence of this hidden software mechanism effectively reduces the support/service load unless Sony would say right up front in the documentation that it's not possible to replace the drives, so don't even bother trying. I guess they were counting on a few suckers to try it and then post an account of their failed attempts somewhere like AVS. (Also, making a statement like that would be interpreted as a challenge by some individuals.)

AFAIC, it was over paranoia on their part. The crap Hollywood has turned out in the past 20 years, for the most part, isn't worth stealing in the first place. ;)

he also added, he didn't think anything larger than a 250GB drive would work anyway.

Thanks for the great info. I am a very happy HDD owner, with two units.

It really is a shame that the MK.2 version didn't come out, but I will agree that this was ahead of it's time.

I had an HD tuner as soon as they came out, but reverted to using SD back then as the HD tuner was carrying SD content and I am in a very good OTA location. I can see where this was just too soon.

It was leading edge tech for the time, even if not now.

I hope mine runs forever, but if it dies, I was looking at a Mac Mini with HDMI......

but I will agree that this was ahead of it's time.MSO supplied DVR's were out before this model, weren't they??

I'm having trouble getting my HDD-500 "up and running" after being in storage since Spring '09, and after having moved back into the Northern VA area (from Dallas). I posted my adventures over at SpiffSpace, http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=316.msg1732#msg1732 , but I welcome any assistance from HDD250/500 you TVGOS veterans.

Also, just a quick question...does anyone here use a DHG-HDD250/500 in the Richmond VA area? Thanks for your assistance in advance - it is very much appreciated. ;)

I'm having trouble getting my HDD-500 "up and running" after being in storage since Spring '09, and after having moved back into the Northern VA area (from Dallas). I posted my adventures over at SpiffSpace, http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=316.msg1732#msg1732 , but I welcome any assistance from HDD250/500 you TVGOS veterans.

Also, just a quick question...does anyone here use a DHG-HDD250/500 in the Richmond VA area? Thanks for your assistance in advance - it is very much appreciated. ;)
Maybe he needs a jump start from the Artec?

Maybe he needs a jump start from the Artec?The clock was set yesterday afternoon, but I am still waiting on a Grid - hoping to get a grid and listings over the next few days. If nothing else, I have a DTV Pal I could try.

The clock was set yesterday afternoon, but I am still waiting on a Grid - hoping to get a grid and listings over the next few days. If nothing else, I have a DTV Pal I could try.

You having a clock set indicates things are progressing fine. Leave it alone for a few days. Things may take longer than two years ago. DON'T do any reset actions.

Yes, the hardest thing can be not touching it. It takes a week to go from nothing to grid with listings here in the NY DMA (.21 software, OTA only). You have to be patient, not usually an easy thing with electronics.

We lost our ads here too after the New Year, although listings continue. Is something up with Rovi ?

Yes, the hardest thing can be not touching it. It takes a week to go from nothing to grid with listings here in the NY DMA (.21 software, OTA only). You have to be patient, not usually an easy thing with electronics.

We lost our ads here too after the New Year, although listings continue. Is something up with Rovi ?

Having more than one unit can be informative. The only difference is the RG-6 feeding the units and their recording schedule. Sometimes one will show no titles on day 8, sometimes no ads. I think Rovi has altered their download schedules, which has been noted already. I guess that may have an effect. Cold start time may mean something. Maybe it was the snow.

But maybe one unit one built on Monday and one was built on Friday. Mysteries surround these machines.

I'm new to this site. I've been fighting my DHG-HDD250 since our local digital switch. I have updated it to version 1.2.21 years ago.

I can get my TV guide to work for months on end then my listings drop off. Now my clock and channel listing is correct but every channel says No Listing.

In the past I've done the "force TVGOS host channel" but I felt lucky every time I got it to work because I was guessing my way through it.

If someone can give me some insight or easy to follow instructions on how to fix this I would appreciate it.

I'm new to this site. I've been fighting my DHG-HDD250 since our local digital switch. I have updated it to version 1.2.21 years ago.

I can get my TV guide to work for months on end then my listings drop off. Now my clock and channel listing is correct but every channel says No Listing.

In the past I've done the "force TVGOS host channel" but I felt lucky every time I got it to work because I was guessing my way through it.

If someone can give me some insight or easy to follow instructions on how to fix this I would appreciate it.

What you are fighting isn't the DHG. These DVRs don't lose listings unless, Rovi is having problems getting the data out, or the station that sends out TVGOS stops sending it out (due to technical problems), or if you're on cable the cable provider stops passing the data on. I have lost listings several times since the transition (at least 3 times last year) and it was always a problem at the source, and not the Sony. Whenever your listings stop, you need to contact someone at the station that sends out the TVGOS data (usually the CBS station, but sometimes the PBS station), and make them aware that you are having problems.

Mark

Sounds like I need to contact the station, I'm just using the DHG for broadcast.

New guy question: Rovi?

Sounds like I need to contact the station, I'm just using the DHG for broadcast.

New guy question: Rovi?

TV Guide begat MacroVision which begat Rovi.

http://www.rovicorp.com/dtv/10053.htm

Think of it as evolution in action.

Sounds like I need to contact the station, I'm just using the DHG for broadcast.

New guy question: Rovi?

Rovi (http://www.rovicorp.com/), formerly macrovision, formerly Gemstar. They were the developers of TVGOS. They send the TVGOS data to encoders at the various television stations around the country. The data stream is sent out OTA along with the audio and video of the transmitting station.

Mark

[QUOTE=linkstur;19724001]

Another trick is to use two remotes when editing the guide. I use my universal and the original remote at the same time. Universal in one hand just doing up and down pages by CH+ and CH-. The original (as it has the scroll wheel) doing the directional controls and editing.

I'm sure you have found that if you have the channel ID selected when editing and use the CH+ and CH- buttons, you move the channel by a page at a time as well.

Thanks again. I DID find that out. It's a big help. When I posted, I had just gotten done arranging the channels in order after my machine lost everything for no reason (anal, I know) and it took about 4 hours. This little trick would have probably saved 3 of them, not to mention a whole lotta wierd looks from the wife...

[QUOTE=OKCrew;19732151]

Thanks again. I DID find that out. It's a big help. When I posted, I had just gotten done arranging the channels in order after my machine lost everything for no reason (anal, I know) and it took about 4 hours. This little trick would have probably saved 3 of them, not to mention a whole lotta wierd looks from the wife...

Anal here too... I have to have the guide just right. I even associate the non-hd channels with logos to the HD channel that does not have a logo (as long as it is the same data, I don't care about the theme sorting by HD).

I lose the guide every year or so for one reason or another and have to build it from scratch. Good enough at it now to rebuild in 45 minutes to an hour with a little over 200 stations turned on (I also move those to the top with the off channels below).

Sounds like I need to contact the station............

Yes, right after you edit your profile (UserCP) to add your location. :)

Not that I'm complaining but, for the past few weeks I have lost ads on one of three recorders all fed by the same sources (OTA & CATV) with data available from either. The machines normally prefer analog CATV (converted from the digital OTA host courtesy of TWC). I checked the host listed and all show the CATV analog channel as the host. The clock set channel is different with all three. Listings are good.

Anyone else have seen this that has more than one deck?

Not that I'm complaining but, for the past few weeks I have lost ads on one of three recorders all fed by the same sources (OTA & CATV) with data available from either. The machines normally prefer analog CATV (converted from the digital OTA host courtesy of TWC). I checked the host listed and all show the CATV analog channel as the host. The clock set channel is different with all three. Listings are good.

Anyone else have seen this that has more than one deck?

My OTA Sony hasn't had ads in almost a month now (maybe longer). My analog V7 panasonic DVR that gets its data from analog cable still has ads. So it appears the clock channel may determine where it looks for ads/data. Does the DHG that still has ads have both the analog host, and analog clock channel? Do the other two both have digital clock channels?

Mark

All three showed the analog CATV host channel. For the clock set, one was CATV analog, one was OTA digital host and the other was CATV digital non host if I remember correctly.

Yes, right after you edit your profile (UserCP) to add your location. :)

Edited;)
I emailed CBS, let's see how far that gets me. Hopefully they get back to me Monday. I'm not good at waiting.

Not that I'm complaining but, for the past few weeks I have lost ads on one of three recorders all fed by the same sources (OTA & CATV) with data available from either. The machines normally prefer analog CATV (converted from the digital OTA host courtesy of TWC). I checked the host listed and all show the CATV analog channel as the host. The clock set channel is different with all three. Listings are good.

Anyone else have seen this that has more than one deck?

I have not lost any ad data on my two V9's. If you can, try a full reset of the guide and see if they return.

I have not lost any ad data on my two V9's. If you can, try a full reset of the guide and see if they return.

Thanks for the post. I was curious about whether V9 devices had lost the ads too. I'm certain a reset would not get them back since several people have commented that the ads are gone. Also, the only people that should really be concerned about missing ads are the companies who pay Rovi to send them out. I don't think anyone else cares whether they are there or not. I believe the missing ads on the V8 Sonys are a direct result of the schedule change that happened in November.

Mark

Thanks for the post. I was curious about whether V9 devices had lost the ads too. I'm certain a reset would not get them back since several people have commented that the ads are gone. Also, the only people that should really be concerned about missing ads are the companies who pay Rovi to send them out. I don't think anyone else cares whether they are there or not. I believe the missing ads on the V8 Sonys are a direct result of the schedule change that happened in November.

Mark

On two units (virtually the same - different power on dates) ads are missing. Not the big TV Guide logo, but the (guessing here) internal defaults. Not even a Bose ad. The V10 TV has full ads and the two DHG units have 100% listings. I believe I had ads on Friday. I agree the schedule changes have made things different. Used to be only partial listings for day 8 in the early morning, now they are complete by 6am.

I can turn on unit 3 and do a full reset tonight if you think it would prove helpful.

The clock was set yesterday afternoon, but I am still waiting on a Grid - hoping to get a grid and listings over the next few days. If nothing else, I have a DTV Pal I could try.

Update: Mark and others helped me square-away everything (http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=316.0); I now have 1.2.21 and 8-days of guide listings running smoothly as of yesterday. :)

Haven't had ads for weeks now. Listings are fine.

What makes me nervous is;
No ads, no income, no income, no TVGOS. :(

What makes me nervous is;
No ads, no income, no income, no TVGOS. :(

Something to help: new ads at about 7am. I did power on one unit yesterday morning and gave it a full factory restore. Last night at about midnight I selected a feed. At 6am today: listings but no new ads. Now: current ads.

Observing this has me thinking that an ad that is sent to the unit has a built-in expiration date. This would be the difference between the big blue TV Guide logo and the tutorial ads. I guess we need a new way to describe the loss of ads.

What makes me nervous is;
No ads, no income, no income, no TVGOS. :(

That makes me nervous too, but typically the lack of ads is brief.

Lately, CBS (its comedies like $#!t My Dad Says) and the new Oprah Winfrey Network are ads that are shown a lot on my TVGOS.

I have 2 units..one loads the grid..the other hasn't for a month.
Time very rarely are in sync with actual time or each other.
I've done reset after reset but nothing works.
I've talked with Cablevision so many times I know all the techs names(just kidding).
Any suggestions???

I have 2 units..one loads the grid..the other hasn't for a month.
Time very rarely are in sync with actual time or each other.
I've done reset after reset but nothing works.
I've talked with Cablevision so many times I know all the techs names(just kidding).
Any suggestions???

Just two. Add your location to your UserCP. Read back a few days or weeks to see the diagnostic tools that you have with every DHG.

That's a start.

That makes me nervous too, but typically the lack of ads is brief.

Lately, CBS (its comedies like $#!t My Dad Says) and the new Oprah Winfrey Network are ads that are shown a lot on my TVGOS.

Repeat of yesterday. At 7am EST two new ads started and yesterday's ads are gone. Same tutorials.

I just added a new antenna pointing to Tampa and get RTV,This Net and CoolTv. The dhg's can be mapped but I don't recieve programing. Is anybody getting the programing in other markets?

Thanks
ss-stingray

Having more than one unit can be informative. The only difference is the RG-6 feeding the units and their recording schedule. Sometimes one will show no titles on day 8, sometimes no ads. I think Rovi has altered their download schedules, which has been noted already. I guess that may have an effect. Cold start time may mean something. Maybe it was the snow.

But maybe one unit one built on Monday and one was built on Friday. Mysteries surround these machines.

Yes, I've found that my two machines will get time at different times and list differently. Why ? Only the engineers at TVGOS know.

I am actually quite happy that Sony still supports the machine, and TVGOS still exists. I have an old Wal Mart box that gets the PSIP information and the Sony boxes get the TVGOS. Otherwise, most hdtv gadgets ignore listing data-but here the Sony is unusually reliant upon it to function. There should be an emergency clock set function, but that has been done to death on this forum. Sony saved us from doorstops for a five year old unit when they released .21. .21 also made the tuner a bit faster.

As a typical piece of non-geek electronics, the returns must have been fierce. Meanwhile, once you memorize the 700 pages of this forum and the spiffspace guides, they are wonderful devices. I use them for all my OTA and they are more reliable than the Dish 612 boxes which lost the DVR function every month or so. They've paid for themselves (OK, I got them for $250 at the sony outlet store in a plain brown box) many times over. The tuners are first gen HDTV but I'm lucky for reception in my location.

When they die and can't be fixed, then I'll go HTPC, but for now, and with a huge WAF, they rock.

Ads are back! :D

(Can't believe I'm happy about having ads. :o)

Ads are back! :D

(Can't believe I'm happy about having ads. :o)

(Can't believe you changed your signature)

Tomorrow see if you have different ads. Check after 7am. I'm detecting a pattern here. If ads are only good for one day, that may be a indication of the future for listings. I hope not.

Things are rocky today. Even NBC.COM can't decide what is showing at 9pm. Must be that nasty snow.

Ok, no response to the email I sent to CBS 3 business days Ago. Still no listing on my grid but my clock is accurate. Any ideas?

Ok, no response to the email I sent to CBS 3 business days Ago. Still no listing on my grid but my clock is accurate. Any ideas?

Manual recordings are still possible unless you lose the channels on the grid.

I have 2 units..one loads the grid..the other hasn't for a month.
Time very rarely are in sync with actual time or each other.
I've done reset after reset but nothing works.
I've talked with Cablevision so many times I know all the techs names(just kidding).
Any suggestions???

I have four items which use TVGOS (Sony TV, the Sony DHG, and two Toshiba's).

Locally, ideally, I want all four to use analog channel 50. That's the cable system's supported TVGOS channel, and seems to have no data problems ever. :)

However, my cable system has some broadcast channels that have TVGOS data too. These seem, though, to be intermittent, unstable and quite unreliable. :(

My problem is to get all four of my items using channel 50. When they scan for an available channel with TVGOS data, all too often they will hit one of those broadcast channels first, and stop there. When that happens, I get incomplete grids or grids filled with "no data". My best hope, is to get that item to rescan for TVGOS again (by a reset), and hope it skips/misses the broadcast channels, and reaches/finds the good channel 50.

I really wish there was a way to "force" (select) a TVGOS channel. :rolleyes:

I have four items which use TVGOS (Sony TV, the Sony DHG, and two Toshiba's).

Locally, ideally, I want all four to use analog channel 50. That's the cable system's supported TVGOS channel, and seems to have no data problems ever. :)

However, my cable system has some broadcast channels that have TVGOS data too. These seem, though, to be intermittent, unstable and quite unreliable. :(

My problem is to get all four of my items using channel 50. When they scan for an available channel with TVGOS data, all too often they will hit one of those broadcast channels first, and stop there. When that happens, I get incomplete grids or grids filled with "no data". My best hope, is to get that item to rescan for TVGOS again (by a reset), and hope it skips/misses the broadcast channels, and reaches/finds the good channel 50.

I really wish there was a way to "force" (select) a TVGOS channel. :rolleyes:

That's quite strange. Are all the other channels besides 50 also analog/vsb?

That's quite strange. Are all the other channels besides 50 also analog/vsb?

Yes. Well, not "all", but some.

For example, broadcast channel 3 is the analog-ization of the local digital CBS channel. When TVGOS searches, it finds analog channel 3 before analog channel 50, and attempts (ultimately in vain) to use channel 3.

The only hope, is that when TVGOS is scanning, the vsb is bad enough on channel 3, that it skips it and continues on (hopefully to channel 50).

I can't be the only user where there are multiple possible channels with TVGOS/vsb data?

Yes. Well, not "all", but some.

For example, broadcast channel 3 is the analog-ization of the local digital CBS channel. When TVGOS searches, it finds analog channel 3 before analog channel 50, and attempts (ultimately in vain) to use channel 3.

The only hope, is that when TVGOS is scanning, the vsb is bad enough on channel 3, that it skips it and continues on (hopefully to channel 50).

I can't be the only user where there are multiple possible channels with TVGOS/vsb data?

I'm sorry. My cable company inserts TVGOS on one channel (C-SPAN) analog 15. My two channels of KYW contain no data packets. My local PBS and CBS channels do not support TVGOS. I have to keep 1.2.13 firmware since my digital channels have four digit subchannels and the .21 frmware blocks my manual recording of them. I'd like to help, but I can't think of any solution of your problem that wouldn't be purely guesswork. I can't even say that turning off your channel 3 in Sony's channels would help. There are many here with more experience, be patient.

I'm sorry. My cable company inserts TVGOS on one channel (C-SPAN) analog 15. My two channels of KYW contain no data packets. My local PBS and CBS channels do not support TVGOS. I have to keep 1.2.13 firmware since my digital channels have four digit subchannels and the .21 frmware blocks my manual recording of them. I'd like to help, but I can't think of any solution of your problem that wouldn't be purely guesswork. I can't even say that turning off your channel 3 in Sony's channels would help. There are many here with more experience, be patient.

No need to be sorry. I am not having a problem, currently. I was just offering my past experience with the hope it might help someone who's TVGOS works OK on one unit, but not another.

My Toshiba TV has a pretty old version of TVGOS, and will only support receiving data from an analog station (even though it has a QAM tuner).

I know that when one of my four systems starts to stop getting data (and the other 3 continue OK), I can go into debug mode, and see that it is not set to channel 50 anymore. In the past, I do remember a system instead sitting on KYW or our backup PBS, WHYY. I am not sure why you don't see data from KYW, but it could be that they use to support TVGOS but not anymore?

No need to be sorry. I am not having a problem, currently. I was just offering my past experience with the hope it might help someone who's TVGOS works OK on one unit, but not another.

My Toshiba TV has a pretty old version of TVGOS, and will only support receiving data from an analog station (even though it has a QAM tuner).

I know that when one of my four systems starts to stop getting data (and the other 3 continue OK), I can go into debug mode, and see that it is not set to channel 50 anymore. In the past, I do remember a system instead sitting on KYW or our backup PBS, WHYY. I am not sure why you don't see data from KYW, but it could be that they use to support TVGOS but not anymore?

Well, from a reliable source, I can state that my TVGOS comes from an inserter that gets it data from a modem that calls a computer in the northeast. I does not take the data from any regular TV station. Back when, I did get V7 TVGOS and XDS from my 'local' PBS channel but that stopped just before the DTV change. They don't do anything now and I don't pay them so we are equal.

I receive no PSIP data either. It's a cable company with maybe 8000 subs. There are 10 cable companies within 50 miles. Until somebody screws with it, I can stream video from the web at 15mbs, so I count my blessings.

Just over the hill (literally) the cable company does insert TVGOS on its KYW digital channel. And we both have the same DMA. Go figure.

Well, from a reliable source, I can state that my TVGOS comes from an inserter that gets it data from a modem that calls a computer in the northeast.

That's probably how my cable's analog channel 50 gets its data. Seems to be pretty reliable and steady, as long as my device is using that channel.

Ok, no response to the email I sent to CBS 3 business days Ago. Still no listing on my grid but my clock is accurate. Any ideas?

Besides this forum, I also read the DTVPal forum, since I also have one of those. You may be interested to read what this person (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19826934#post19826934) who is also in the Dayton area said about the TVGOS there. He says that the station stops sending out TVGOS for long periods of time, at regular intervals. Also, the next person that responded (also from Ohio) said that was his #1 issue as well. So you aren't alone. I don't know what else to suggest other than to keep emailing them once a week or so. At least it isn't a problem with your Sony.

Mark

Thanks for the post. I was curious about whether V9 devices had lost the ads too. I'm certain a reset would not get them back since several people have commented that the ads are gone. Also, the only people that should really be concerned about missing ads are the companies who pay Rovi to send them out. I don't think anyone else cares whether they are there or not. I believe the missing ads on the V8 Sonys are a direct result of the schedule change that happened in November.

Mark

I think I figured out what caused the ads to disappear on the DHG. About the same time you lost your ads I lost my grid for one day.
I turned my tv on in the evening and I had no grid so I checked the diagnostics menu and seen that I still had data on all the screens except the ATSC splicer screen. All the columns were zeros.
There was no indication of a guide reset in the reset data section.

The next day my grid returned and I noticed that the skipped TVG2 column and the skipped TVG1 column had the same number of skips. I checked it last night and after about a month each skipped column still had an even amount of skips.
I think Rovi finally implemented the TVG2 stream and it probably carrys the ad data on that stream now. I guess there is no burst data for TVG2 so the DHG doesn't see the data.

If I am correct about this then the biggest problem in the future for DHG owners who don't have analog support is if Rovi moves any grid building data over to that stream.

I think I figured out what caused the ads to disappear on the DHG. About the same time you lost your ads I lost my grid for one day.
I turned my tv on in the evening and I had no grid so I checked the diagnostics menu and seen that I still had data on all the screens except the ATSC splicer screen. All the columns were zeros.
There was no indication of a guide reset in the reset data section.

The next day my grid returned and I noticed that the skipped TVG2 column and the skipped TVG1 column had the same number of skips. I checked it last night and after about a month each skipped column still had an even amount of skips.
I think Rovi finally implemented the TVG2 stream and it probably carrys the ad data on that stream now. I guess there is no burst data for TVG2 so the DHG doesn't see the data.

If I am correct about this then the biggest problem in the future for DHG owners who don't have analog support is if Rovi moves any grid building data over to that stream.

Probably this means nothing. Every day since the reported loss of ads (meaning no new ads) the few ads have expired at about 6am. The new ads, or ad, have started at 7am. No display of the big TV Guide blue boxes. This has been the new normal for over a week. The tutorial ads are still there to fill in the gaps. I have this from both .13 and .21 firmware on my analog feed. No loss of listings. If I read you right, OTA digital has more to worry about than us low-life legacy users. That's truly strange. I will have to track when my V10 TV loses its clock since that comes from the guide data. I always get it back with a manual network refresh. This happens with no regularity.

Mark mabuttra, Does your DTVPal DVR still operate the same way now, that it did before the last DST change OR has it lost any functionality since the last DST change?

Jed1 and Mark, regarding the missing “ads” (which has been the same here in Houston); you will most likely also notice significant changes on the following info screens:

“Heap Info” is now changing like a Christmas Lights – Used and Free sections change constantly every 2 seconds – they never rest.

“Ad Track” has now filled up very Fat. Many of the other memory screens related to “ads” have also filled up Fat. Like they have way too much data in them.

It also appears that in Houston the Digital Patches for TVGOS are no longer being sent out (I will know this morning). It may be the only way to get the box 100% operational in Houston is with a full time Artec connection (or other legacy)?

The only thing I can confirm for Houston that is “reliable” is the Digital Clock – still 2 of those per day.

I think Rovi finally implemented the TVG2 stream and it probably carrys the ad data on that stream now. I guess there is no burst data for TVG2 so the DHG doesn't see the data.

If I am correct about this then the biggest problem in the future for DHG owners who don't have analog support is if Rovi moves any grid building data over to that stream.

See my post above.

The patches finally returned.

Pic 9222: Last night the 08.06.44 was 00.00.00 – took extra long to show up this time. Also, the P: line was all zeros. Screen 1 is back to normal.

Pic 9228: Current Slicer

Pic 9229: Heap Info is now acting normal again; but if the “ads” get super Fat again it may go nuts. Rovi has changed something in the “ads” – like it is more than the Sony DVR can process or something like that.

Pic 9233: Houston Grid count is now 522, We are still missing two stations; seems it takes Rovi about 4-8 weeks to add stations when they appear.

Pic 9240: With the 2 missing patches in the Box the listings started populating again. Within the 3 hours you see on the screen (10:09 to 13:15), the 8 day listings are now about 70% complete.



I do not think there will be ads again? Only if the Artec is connected.

Mark mabuttra, Does your DTVPal DVR still operate the same way now, that it did before the last DST change OR has it lost any functionality since the last DST change?


My DTVPal works just like it did before the DST change. However the DTVPal doesn't use ads so there's no way to tell if it could ever "see" them or not.

Mark

I do not think there will be ads again? Only if the Artec is connected.

What I find interesting is that the Ads page of the 753 menu (1 click down, 1 click right), shows that I have 65 ads today (there were 63 ads a couple of days ago), but none of them appear during their scheduled times. The Ad schedule information is there, but there seems to be no images to display.

Mark

What I find interesting is that the Ads page of the 753 menu (1 click down, 1 click right), shows that I have 65 ads today (there were 63 ads a couple of days ago), but none of them appear during their scheduled times. The Ad schedule information is there, but there seems to be no images to display.

Mark


Thanks Mark. I still might get one of the DTVPal CM DVRs since they are getting cheaper.

During the last few weeks here, the ads listings count (ads page) would be between 65 to 75 for about 3+ days……….then blank out for a couple of hours………..and start over again with the next NumSearch. The ads never showed on the screen………….all that while the “memory” sections were showing tons more activity than normal.

Hopefully, when I turn the box on after 4PM today the grid will be full listings again. I really do not like having to hook up the Artec every couple of months for the newer grids. Just during the last 60 days I think 5 stations went Spanish; 3 others came back to English, an overall net gain of 2, and about 4 channel re-assignments.

Last weekend even the major stations like CBS and NBC had gone crazy in the Grid. The “title” said one thing, the “Description” went to something else, and what was actually “airing” was something else entirely – it was becoming useless.

[...]
Hopefully, when I turn the box on after 4PM today the grid will be full listings again.


I presume that you did a reset yesterday. Are you trying the recovery without the Artec?

Mark

I presume that you did a reset yesterday. Are you trying the recovery without the Artec?

Mark


Actually did the reset almost 2 days ago with the Artec to get the grid more current. And it did that, with “ads” and all very quickly. But when the Artec was removed, during the next 24 hours it lost the patches and the listings stopped. Most likely something I did.

As of now, after 4 PM today the listings are about 90% complete; so hopefully one more night they should be up to par?

Also as of 4PM today (about 15 hours after the patches), the info screen still shows zero ad data.

Since the last DST, it has only reached 0xf78 “one” time. All other times it is 0xe68 as the maximum level.

I do not think Houston will ever work unless there is some type of legacy source. I think one other person in Houston just leaves the Artec hooked up "all" the time; and I may change to that too.

Listings are now back to 100% this AM (it’s about time).

Pic 9243: Just for laughs. The Artec has not been on it in three days and 2-1 serves no purpose LOL

Pic 9245: Since it did not get the giant load of Ads at the start of the Num Search, I sort of expect this screen to stay blank until the next Num Search – I have no idea.

Pic 9248: It did get some ads before the 2 TVGOS patches came, and they showed on the screen both with and without Artec. But then the AdTrack on this screen got Fat, and the ads on the Screen went blank. I guess the screen is a “left over” report and not real, the next screen is real.

Pic 9249: After the 2 patches came in the Ad Memory cleared itself.

Pic 9253: Current VBI Info. On the VBI Stats it has received only 6 EPPs to 38 DPPs, this is sort of back to normal for Houston – HA!

If I read you right, OTA digital has more to worry about than us low-life legacy users. That's truly strange.

Yes. The old digital download schedule was 16 hours in length and the new digital download schedule is about 9 hours and 20 minutes with two stoppages occuring at 7 am to 9 am and another at 12 pm to 1 pm.

I think TVG1 was running at full capacity before so to reduce the hours of the download times, Rovi had to increase the data flow, so they moved some of the data to TVG2. I suspect them to tweek this as they go forward.

Somebody will have to be brave enough to see if they can get a grid in an all digital enviroment with no analog support.

As for the legacy stream, I doubt Rovi will mess with this anymore and it will remain as is. The official analog shutdown for cable operators is Feb. 17th 2012. At that time the cable operators can terminate their analog feeds if they so desire. It is also possible that Rovi will end analog support at that time. If this does happen, then that will be the end of guide support for all versions under V9.

I have a V8 device (a Mitsubishi WD-57732, connected to a CableCard as well as OTA), and I have not had TVGOS data in over a year. Three days ago I performed the "G" test and found that neither of the OTA sources (I can tune both the West Palm Beach and the Miami CBS affiliates) passes the VBI portion of the test (they both passed the ATSC portion). With the cable feed from Comcast, the same test had the opposite result: the ATSC portion failed, but the VBI portion passed. My question is, are both the ATSC and the VBI data necessary for TVGOS to work? The TVGOS diagnostic screen shows 08.01.71/08.05.43/00.00.00/00040005/64/0000 as the version number, and the TV itself is running the latest firmware for that model.

I think TVG1 was running at full capacity before so to reduce the hours of the download times, Rovi had to increase the data flow, so they moved some of the data to TVG2. I suspect them to tweek this as they go forward.


I'm pretty certain that my TVG2 stream is null packets, but I'll record it with TSReader over night to verify that (I meant to do that last night, but I forgot). It was 100% null packets a couple of months ago, but that was before the schedule change. My skipped TVG2 counts are pretty much dead so I'm pretty certain nothing has changed.


Somebody will have to be brave enough to see if they can get a grid in an all digital enviroment with no analog support.


I am doing that right now. I'm 99% sure it will work since my host channel sets regularly, and if data was missing, the host channel would never set. I should know in less than 2 days hopefully.


As for the legacy stream, I doubt Rovi will mess with this anymore and it will remain as is. The official analog shutdown for cable operators is Feb. 17th 2012. At that time the cable operators can terminate their analog feeds if they so desire. It is also possible that Rovi will end analog support at that time. If this does happen, then that will be the end of guide support for all versions under V9.

This doesn't make sense to me, why would Rovi spend all that money developing hardware for cable stations to deliver the legacy data, only to pull the plug after three years??? I realize at some point the number of legacy devices still in operation will dwindle, but surely not after only three years... maybe seven years.

Mark

Yes. The old digital download schedule was 16 hours in length and the new digital download schedule is about 9 hours and 20 minutes with two stoppages occuring at 7 am to 9 am and another at 12 pm to 1 pm.
...
As for the legacy stream, I doubt Rovi will mess with this anymore and it will remain as is. The official analog shutdown for cable operators is Feb. 17th 2012. At that time the cable operators can terminate their analog feeds if they so desire. It is also possible that Rovi will end analog support at that time. If this does happen, then that will be the end of guide support for all versions under V9.

Maybe I'll make more tapes. And since I don't (can't) use the guide to record digital, my old 1.2.13 firmware is gaining value. Sort of like my old Neon when the price of gas goes up. I wonder if V9 data will set the clock on the DHG? It's not that critical, but it would save time. oops: pun.

Somebody will have to be brave enough to see if they can get a grid in an all digital enviroment with no analog support.


I reset last night at about 8:00pm, got the grid back at 6:15 am. I didn't clear the patches, but I'm certain they are still being sent. Although the grid came back fast, it is kind of a fluke. I have noticed, since the schedule change, that it usually takes longer for my host channel to set than it did before.

After recording the TVG2 data from 11:20pm to almost 7:00am, it is 100% dummy packets. Data may be active at some other time, but I doubt it.

Mark

Somebody will have to be brave enough to see if they can get a grid in an all digital enviroment with no analog support.



I am doing that right now . . .


Same here. Ever since my two TVGOS host stations shut down their analog transmitters. I thought this question had been asked and answered a long time ago. I'm surprised that it continues to come up. :confused:

Listings are still 100% complete and zero ads data during this NumSearch 1 phase.


Houston Status:

The Sony DVR needs a legacy data to be operational with full listings – and this new era of operations it’s likely the ads are gone. Have no idea if that will be a permanent thing?

It will maintain correct clock with the V9 OTA digital stream, and appears to do so almost instantly (less than a day) after any type of reset, the .21 is required for that to work.


Change of Subject:

It is sad the DVR offerings are stuck in the “stone age” when we all know significantly better technology can easily be provided at significantly less cost. The highly restrictive lack of freedom to record in a manner you see fit is sad. Since 2004/2005 we should have already had 2 or 3 more generations of OTA DVR’s.


Change of Subject:

During the last two weeks the NAB has been running a new series of ads on our local NBC and CBS stations. And of course they throw all sorts of “new” stuff at you and state their position against further restrictive FCC regulations. One of the things that really caught my attention was the prospects of Free OTA 3D TV. Apparently, Samsung, LG, Panasonic, Sony and others are ready to deliver this? Honestly I had no idea there could be such a thing, but I guess it is true?

http://www.nab.org/


Change of Subject:

I know everything in the world I need to know about Wal-Mart. I do not need to have any more knowledge about Wal-Mart. I do not need or want 1 hour of Wal-Mart commercials.

Last night we watched a movie “Change of Plans”. It was really a very good movie. It was one of those Wal-Mart movies, so naturally the products sponsored in the show came from Wal-Mart and all of the commercials were from Wal-Mart. Out of the 2 hour movie time frame, the movie was about 1 hour and the rest of it was Wal-Mart commercials. Without the DVR, it would have been impossible "for me" to watch the movie. 20 minutes of commercials, or even 5 minutes of commercials and I completely lose my attention for the movie. Without the DVR I would not even attempt to watch the movie.


Change of Subject:

Remember the ole song “Give Me My MTV”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh94FG5Q_j8

Listings are still 100% complete and zero ads data during this NumSearch 1 phase.
[...]


Analog cable: two new ads, no tutorials. They must come from somewhere. Every morning at 7am.

I can't comment on Walmart-TV. Oprah can do it. When you make $1 billion in profit every month, why bother? I never try to figure out the workings of the corporate mind. And one of the ads was taped in my warehouse. How's that for a small world.

Your points are good.

Analog cable: two new ads, no tutorials. They must come from somewhere. Every morning at 7am.

I can't comment on Walmart-TV. Oprah can do it. When you make $1 billion in profit every month, why bother? I never try to figure out the workings of the corporate mind. And one of the ads was taped in my warehouse. How's that for a small world.

Your points are good.



Keep in mind I like Wal-Mart a lot, my wife drags me there at least once a month. I have the stores memorized – 3 Super Centers and 3 Regulars just 6 miles from the house – it’s too much for me. I just don’t need to see the ads, since I am in the stores too much anyway - LOL

Change of Subject:

It is sad the DVR offerings are stuck in the “stone age” when we all know significantly better technology can easily be provided at significantly less cost. The highly restrictive lack of freedom to record in a manner you see fit is sad. Since 2004/2005 we should have already had 2 or 3 more generations of OTA DVR’s.
I agree with you, but is it because Tivo and proprietary cable and satellite DVR's have a lock on the industry?

Change of Subject:

Remember the ole song “Give Me My MTV”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh94FG5Q_j8
Wasn't MTV that channel that used to play music videos 20+ years ago? ;)

Somebody will have to be brave enough to see if they can get a grid in an all digital enviroment with no analog support.



I see Mark already responded to this but I can attest that it's no problem at all (as long as you have some patience :)) and the lack of TVG2 makes no difference. I posted some while ago that the PID ID for TVG2 changed to NONE here. It's still that way.

Over the holidays I stupidly caused my 250 to have a "ground zero" reset. I replaced the power strip and after restoring power noticed the power cord for the 250 was a bit tangled in the coax so I unplugged it, not even thinking about it being in its power-up welcome phase. It didn't like that. :( Lost grid, time offset, both FW patches, the whole nine yards. A little over 24 hours later it was just waiting for TimeZone and Bit#2. All told, it took just under four days to have everything back to normal.

On the subject of ads, they've been MIA here since a week or two before the holidays. Once in a while one shows up and then disappears.

From 644 to 735 channels, including west coast feed additions such as TNTHD.

From 644 to 735 channels, including west coast feed additions such as TNTHD.

Got ya beat! :D Latest count here is 753, up from 583 at DTV transition time. For us OTA only folks, that seems like an incredible mess. I've noticed that ROVI doesn't ever delete anything. All the old analog station call letters are in there. So are "duplicates" such as listing Livwell, LivWell, Livewell, LiveWell. I've never understood why the list contains OTA stations from all over the country (although certainly not ALL of them).

Wow, I have been lucky to get 6-8 new channels in the last 18 months. Of course why the Grid is 50% Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio is beyond me?

Rovi might add Antenna-TV by the end of 2012 - just before the pull the plug on it all.

^^^ Antenna-TV is in the list and I get listings for it after mapping it to the channel that just started up Jan. 1st. Can't imagine why anyone would watch it though!! :D

^^^ Antenna-TV is in the list and I get listings for it after mapping it to the channel that just started up Jan. 1st. Can't imagine why anyone would watch it though!! :DIf you're female, like your user name implies, and considering they show The Three Stooges (and Benny Hill), I wouldn't be surprised by that attitude one bit. ;)

^^^ Antenna-TV is in the list and I get listings for it after mapping it to the channel that just started up Jan. 1st. Can't imagine why anyone would watch it though!! :D

Well of course it is listed in the Sony tuner, just not the TVGOS yet. Perhaps the Artec will give it to me in a few months?

I do need to continue my Three Stooges Etiquette training as soon as possible; I have become a little rusty.

I do need to continue my Three Stooges Etiquette training as soon as possible;Heyyy, heyyy....what would Emily Post say?

Well of course it is listed in the Sony tuner, just not the TVGOS yet. Perhaps the Artec will give it to me in a few months?

I do need to continue my Three Stooges Etiquette training as soon as possible; I have become a little rusty.

I meant it is IN the TVGOS channel list and once I mapped it and turned it on there are correct listings for it. That is how I know I would never watch it. :D :D

If you're female, like your user name implies, and considering they show The Three Stooges (and Benny Hill), I wouldn't be surprised by that attitude one bit. ;)

Guilty on all counts. :)

I meant it is IN the TVGOS channel list and once I mapped it and turned it on there are correct listings for it. That is how I know I would never watch it. :D :D

In my Sony tuner it shows up as ANT-TV, but in the TVGOS channel lists I cannot find anything close to that? There is an odd ZTV, that's not it? or is it?

I have noticed in Houston they are sometimes up to 2-6-9 months behind in adding new channels or changes; and of course I will not get them until the Artec is hooked up.

That would be the one nice thing is to "always" have current Grids; but will never get those without the Host Channel Sets - bummer.

It will be interesting to see if "ads" attempt to come back with NumSearch 2; but I think it may just "overfill" again, log jam, and then clear the screen of ads - again.

Possumgirl,

I may have found it. I turned on "ANTEN"..............so will wait to see if "Stooges" show up.