.....yet, the 5-10 mins of "City Hall" I caught earlier looked very soft and mushy..so who knows...haven't seen "Dune".

Dish Network feed.

Hmmmm....funny you mention City Hall. Again, I saw the preview and thought the pq was VERY good. I haven't looked at the movie when it aired though. Luckily, I didn't like the movie one bit so I don't really care too much.

Hmmmm....funny you mention City Hall. Again, I saw the preview and thought the pq was VERY good. I haven't looked at the movie when it aired though. Luckily, I didn't like the movie one bit so I don't really care too much.

I didn't see the preview, but on HDNet Movies, City Hall looked very soft. I don't recall where I saw it before in HD, but IIRC, it was much sharper.

BTW, sorry to read that you don't care about the quality of City Hall. If I were you, I'd care about the PQ on movies I don't like or want to see, and would want HDNet Movies to fix whatever the problem is with these poor presentations. That way, when there is a movie you do like and want to see, the chances are better that it will be a good presentation.

Above the Law looked pretty good, Sphere looked great, and Freejack was probably the most impressive IMO. I haven't watched Dune yet, but it is on my dvr.

BTW, sorry to read that you don't care about the quality of City Hall. If I were you, I'd care about the PQ on movies I don't like or want to see, and would want HDNet Movies to fix whatever the problem is with these poor presentations. That way, when there is a movie you do like and want to see, the chances are better that it will be a good presentation.


No, I said I don't care for the movie. If you read through this thread you will see I give credit where it is due and criticize when the time calls for it. I DID not like City Hall so I haven't even made it a priority to check the PQ for me. Good enough?

21 GRAMS was on Starz in HD a while back and I watched it on D-VHS last night. Talk about smoking. Not the most detail, but the transfer was so clear that the film grain, which was ramped up by the director on purpose, was always visible. No smearing or DVNR used. Just great stuff.

I wish HDNet could show flicks this way.

21 GRAMS was on Starz in HD a while back and I watched it on D-VHS last night. Talk about smoking. Not the most detail, but the transfer was so clear that the film grain, which was ramped up by the director on purpose, was always visible. No smearing or DVNR used. Just great stuff.

I wish HDNet could show flicks this way.

I too have that capped from Starz and agree 100 %. With that being said did you look at Sphere on HDNM? VERY impressive. I also thought Shakespere in Love looked great as well. If they would be more consistent, I would be happy. I just looked at Above the Law for a few minutes and that too looked good. I could clearly see film grain so maybe....just maybe...they are getting the picture.

I only download what you put up on the web, Mr. Warezer. MPAA might be knocking on your door real soon.

And since I pay for most channels about 3x over, I won't worry about what you think.

Guess you missed the ignore button here to as you have mentioned it multiple times.

Another mis-statement.

Fact is, I don't need the stuff you upload all over the web. I am very self sufficient.



let them knock, as a matter of fact I would welcome them in, I pride myself in not downloading or uploading anything, I am not part of that scene and I have nothing to hide whatsoever

Would it make sense for me to make fun of others for downloading and me doing activities like that myself??

Because I said you downloaded, I never said you didn't have equipment

but it would be real easy for us to have all that equipment if we loaded our Dish/BEV/Directv receivers on other peoples accounts like you do
maybe Dish or Directv will be knocking at your door soon ;)

enough is enough with you, I am not ruining another thread

-Gary

Darrin, last night I was wiped and went to bed, but I did catch about 5 monites of SPHERE before I copped my Z's. It looked very good. But I don't care, as I HATE that film with a passion. God, what a disaster.

But it IS good that we are seeing some good quality so far this month. I'm wondering how ABOVE THE LAW looks compared to the HBO version.

Above the Law looked pretty good Matt, never seen the HBO one though

Yes Darrin I am seeing lots of film grain also on HDNet

Dune is one of the best I have seen Matt, no joke

-Gary

Darrin, last night I was wiped and went to bed, but I did catch about 5 monites of SPHERE before I copped my Z's. It looked very good. But I don't care, as I HATE that film with a passion. God, what a disaster.

But it IS good that we are seeing some good quality so far this month. I'm wondering how ABOVE THE LAW looks compared to the HBO version.

I agree with you (again) on Sphere. It's a shame when you see such a lush and vivid transfer on such a horrendous film. Great cast, great director (ok, good director) and a HORRIBLE screenplay. God I wish I had The Abyss in HD.

God I wish I had The Abyss in HD.
:)

Dune appears to have the best quality that I have ever seen on HDNET. I am amazed at how they can make a 20 yr old movie look this good.


I am watching via Dishnetwork 811 Reciver.

the Special Edition of Abyss would be a dream :)

-Gary

A-Men to that.

I must also add how good Freejack looked, Darn :eek: I had to archive that one having never seen it before

-Gary

Yeah...Freejack looked great. Just can't sit through the film.

but it would be real easy for us to have all that equipment if we loaded our Dish/BEV/Directv receivers on other peoples accounts like you do
maybe Dish or Directv will be knocking at your door soon ;)


Let them knock. I decided a long time ago it wasn't worth the hassle. It's easy for me to show payments to all 3 services so no problem.

Oh, btw, where 's the Movie you said you offered to send me in the mail until I never gave you my address.

United States post office and MPAA would probably be interested....

I've seen many comparisons to other networks, but has anyone seen a difference between an earlier showing of a particular feature on HDNet and a more recent one?

Let them knock. I decided a long time ago it wasn't worth the hassle. It's easy for me to show payments to all 3 services so no problem.

Oh, btw, where 's the Movie you said you offered to send me in the mail until I never gave you my address.

United States post office and MPAA would probably be interested....

sorry pal it wasn't me, I have all our email contacts saved ;)

I wish I did know you address because a particular member of this forum would love to have it :(

-Gary

I've seen many comparisons to other networks, but has anyone seen a difference between an earlier showing of a particular feature on HDNet and a more recent one?

No, so it's probably as issue with how they're getting certain transfers rather than a signal path problem. (Although they really do need to turn the telecine flag on.)

OMG, I was not expecting DUNE to look as wonderful as it does. If HDNetM is hit or miss, they sure hit this time!

I must say, one great thing about HDNet is knowing that everything with be OAR. We need more channels like these.

Definitely seeing film grain now on "Murphy's Romance, 1985". :)

- Tim

P.S. Gary and FanAtic, can you guys take your OT vendettas to PM, because they're not contributing anything to the public on-topic discussions? Thanks.

Take The Fight Elsewhere!!! Enough!!!!!!!

I must say, one great thing about HDNet is knowing that everything with be OAR. We need more channels like these.Yep... I'm watching "Pulp Fiction" on StarzHD now... looks great, but it ain't 2.35

Wow... that Big Kahuna burger really does look tasty.

Maybe HDNet is adding grain now. Now we'll have to complain it's too grainy compared to someone else. Too sharp, too soft, too red, too pasty, too bright, too dark, and that's just the video - then we can start in on the audio lol.

The hand is tasty.

sorry pal it wasn't me, I have all our email contacts saved ;)

I wish I did know you address because a particular member of this forum would love to have it :(

-Gary

I am sure many including you, would love my address. That's why I decided not to give it you to send the movie.

And funny, I have the email saved as well. Might want to check 8/1/2005.

Yes, I thought about account sharing and made some inquries. Actually did it for 3 weeks but then figured it wasnt worth the hassle as my bank statements can atest and just went ahead and subbed my receivers on all the networks.

Unlike you BTW, as you were the one actually stealing BEV for a LONG period of time before they locked it down, interesting how you make accusations about me.

Clarence there is a fabulous OAR Pulp Fiction from Showtime, it looks so good

-Gary

Tuned in Dune Monday after all the hoopla here and agree it looked great via HDNet. Always enjoy the short/long versions, despite some wince-inducing dialog here and there, which always generates sympathy for the actors having to speak it. But, not a bit of grain was visible, nor in the segment of Sphere I watched last week. -- John

Grain has always been visible in this film during some shots on LD and DVD.

I just watched the first 45 minutes of DUNE (D-VHS recording) and enjoyed it very much. There is some obvious filtering and DVNR to get rid of grain, but the image is still relatively sharp and easily the best it has ever looked. A shame the powers that be think grain = bad. :(

On my 95" screen in scaled 720p the image is pleasing to the eye. I love old fashioned FX using models and slight of hand. It's so realistic that you forget about it, as opposed to modern day CGI, which draws attention to itself. Only some of the the rear projection FX shots look bad in DUNE. This HD version on a large screen looks big, as it was intended, and it holds up very well.

The first hour of the theatrical cut has always been superb. It's once the surprise attack commences that the theatrical verison falls apart as it turns into a cliff notes version of what was filmed.

By the way, Toto's music score is one of the best of all time. It adds so much feeling and mood to the picture.

and...



After 6 months with VOOM... Since very, VERY few people were privileged to see VOOM's real HD, it is now becoming clear to me that very few people know what real HD is ...


VOOM, dispite all it's soap opera and operational issues, was stunning to watch. We were spoiled. And, they are missed.

I've seen many comparisons to other networks, but has anyone seen a difference between an earlier showing of a particular feature on HDNet and a more recent one?
I have a copy of The Big Town from a year or so ago and I thought it was recorded from Showtime. I did an A/B comparison with the movie running from the recent showing on my Tivo from HDNet Movies and the older DVHS. The older DVHS blew it away in terms of contrast and grain and overall sharpness. Well it turns out when I rewinded the tape to the beginning, I realized it too was from HDNet Movies. So somehow it the span of a year or so they had managed to ruin a digital transfer of a movie.

A year ago on DirecTV (since you are using a Tivo, I'm assuming that is where you got it) the bitrate was near 18Mb/s (or at least in the 14-16 range). Now it hovers in the 7-12 range. That is certainly one factor.

Voom was never higher than 1440x1080i, it was not true HD either and is why I never signed up with them, I think they had plans for true 1920x1080i though, but they didn't last long enough ;)

-Gary

Okay, guess I should make this point, because of general confusion. It's the Voom21 channels that were 1440i (and yeah, it's more HD than 1280i). The other channels, HBO, Starz, CMAX and all, were 1920i.

I was not aware that only the Voom 21 were 1440x1080i, I thought that all Voom HD were 1440x1080i, thanks

-Gary

Arlington Road looks like dried dog s*** . What a joke. Maybe Mark is going blind.

Arlington Road looks like dried dog s*** . What a joke. Maybe Mark is going blind.


Ha! You beat me to it. I started recording this and stopped it after 10 minutes. It REALLY looked like crap. I really don't know what the hell is going on over there.

Mark claims they have turned down HD transfers due to quality, yet they decided to go with this one? One of my favorites is on in Feb, Thief (w James Cann). At this point, it's like a crap-shoot. I will keep my fingers crossed.

Ha! You beat me to it. I started recording this and stopped it after 10 minutes. It REALLY looked like crap. I really don't know what the hell is going on over there.


Indeed. HDNet's silence continues to be deafening regarding these relatively new issues. You have to think an organization as devoted to picture quality as they've often said they are (and heretofore have been) would have at least noticed that something's gone out of whack....they don't need any fancy equipment; their eyes should tell them. Everyone here has certainly noticed, and plenty of proof in the form of screen-caps has been provided. :rolleyes:

I didn't watch the entire movie, but when I checked in on it for a few minutes, this movie looked SPECTACULAR and was in OAR....

Scott

I didn't watch the entire movie, but when I checked in on it for a few minutes, this movie looked SPECTACULAR and was in OAR....

Scott

Agreed. I watched a few minutes of it and was very impressed with the PQ.

This whole thing with HDNet Movies is getting very strange. Some movies are superb. Others are very bad and worse than previous HD showings of the same movie on HBO or Showtime. Is HDNet really getting bad transfers for some of these movies? And if so, why when other providers would seem to be getting better transfers.

Is HDNet really getting bad transfers for some of these movies? And if so, why when other providers would seem to be getting better transfers.
...or is it /something/ about certain movies that causes them to look horrible & blotchy? i.e. something that messes with other systems that HDNet Movies has in their broadcast chain???

I wonder if there isn't some way to get in touch with an engineer at HDNet to talk to them about this?

Yes Scott Nikita, did look great, but Untouchables today, OMG what a POS

-Gary

Yeah, it surely looked like poop on D*.

Quigly Down Under looks very good. The Untouchables looked very bad. Like I said, something weird is going on unless it's just that some of the transfers HDNet Movies are getting are just plain awful.

I was very pleased with Quigly myself. Hopefully Clear and Present Danger will look nice as well tomorrow.

Quigley looked VERY good

-Gary

Gary,

Have you seen the preview for Apocalypse now on HDNet Movies? How do you think it looks?

Thanks,
Tom

looks darn good, Tom :)

I posted a screen cap a few pages back

-Gary

Thanks as always Gary :)

Caught a bit of Quigley, too, and thought it looked good. Notice David Lean's A Passage to India (http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/movie.html?v_id=37349), which grabbed a few Oscars, is next Saturday (Jan. 14th). Lots of crisp mountain scenery, especially at the end, to check HD fidelity--at least what squeaks though the process.

Keep wondering how much using 1080i inverse telecine, with perhaps 48 or 72 fps, not 60p display, might be influencing what some are seeing; (not, necessarily, the whole good/poor HDNetM-quality thing). X percent of AVS members are supposedly eliminating most motion judder with the right inverse telecine. Still viewing at 60 fields per second (CRT RPTV) here. -- John

Caught a bit of Quigley, too, and thought it looked good. Notice David Lean's A Passage to India (http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/movie.html?v_id=37349), which grabbed a few Oscars, is next Saturday (Jan. 14th). Lots of crisp mountain scenery, especially at the end, to check HD fidelity--at least what squeaks though the process.

Keep wondering how much using 1080i inverse telecine, with perhaps 48 or 72 fps, not 60p display, might be influencing what some are seeing; (not, necessarily, the whole good/poor HDNetM-quality thing). X percent of AVS members are supposedly eliminating most motion judder with the right inverse telecine. Still viewing at 60 fields per second (CRT RPTV) here. -- John

Can any of the newer fixed pixel displays output anything other than a 60 hz frame rate? I didn't think they could, which is somewhat annoying since most of them would not flicker even if they used only 24 hz.

- Tom

Can any of the newer fixed pixel displays output anything other than a 60 hz frame rate? I didn't think they could, which is somewhat annoying since most of them would not flicker even if they used only 24 hz.

Yes, I've spotted reviews, mentioning a few sets that can. Anyone interested might start in the >$3500 FP forum. It's not the flicker issue, it's the judder resulting from the additional pulldown needed for 60 fps after 24p extraction--as I understand it. -- John

I will be recording the Rose Bowl tonight on espn classic and won't be able to check out the first showing of Clear and Present Danger. Please post any opinions regarding the picture quality of this film.

Thanks,
Tom

With all the griping that has gone on here about lack of PQ, lack of detail, lack of grain, etc. on HDNM, I'm surprised I haven't seen equally voluminous commentary on what looks like a massive shift in the films that are premiering in January.

I pulled a few from my list of recent recordings:

h847/t2= NMV Dune '84 (2:20) @235 <detail>
h852/t2= NMV Murphy's Romance '85 (1:49) @178 <grain>
h859/t1= NMV Chances Are '89 (1:48) <grain>
h866/t3= NMV Big Picture, The '89 (1:40) <grain>
h873/t2= NMV Iron Eagle '86 (1:57) @178 <grain>
h878/t1= NMV Little Nikita '88 (1:38) @178 <grain>
h881/t2= NMV Quigley Down Under '90 (2:00) @235 <grain>
h882/t1= NMV Above the Law '88 (1:39) @178 <grain>
h885/t2= NMV Clear and Present Danger '94 (2:21) @235 <grain>
These all look sharp, with good detail and contrast levels, and except for Dune, all exhibit at least some visible grain (and a few, quite a bit). Yet other than a few random comments on a couple films, things have been pretty quiet here.

Has HDNet changed the processing they use during the intake cycle with the elements they're provided? Or is there something else at work here? I don't know, but it seems like a fairly remarkable coincidence when suddenly virtually every new arrival is looking exceptionally good. Whatever it is, I'm not complaining :), and I'd give all of the above top marks in the PQ department.

- Tim

Yes I agree Video, something may have been changed

Clear and Present Danger was stunning tonight, HDNet's new showing's are looking VERY good and I am seeing film grain and plenty of details

Quigley Down Under was Amazing :eek:

Tailor of Panama was not that hot though

-Gary

With all the griping that has gone on here about lack of PQ, lack of detail, lack of grain, etc. on HDNM, I'm surprised I haven't seen equally voluminous commentary on what looks like a massive shift in the films that are premiering in January.

I pulled a few from my list of recent recordings:

h847/t2= NMV Dune '84 (2:20) @235 <detail>
h852/t2= NMV Murphy's Romance '85 (1:49) @178 <grain>
h859/t1= NMV Chances Are '89 (1:48) <grain>
h866/t3= NMV Big Picture, The '89 (1:40) <grain>
h873/t2= NMV Iron Eagle '86 (1:57) @178 <grain>
h878/t1= NMV Little Nikita '88 (1:38) @178 <grain>
h881/t2= NMV Quigley Down Under '90 (2:00) @235 <grain>
h882/t1= NMV Above the Law '88 (1:39) @178 <grain>
h885/t2= NMV Clear and Present Danger '94 (2:21) @235 <grain>
These all look sharp, with good detail and contrast levels, and except for Dune, all exhibit at least some visible grain (and a few, quite a bit). Yet other than a few random comments on a couple films, things have been pretty quiet here.

Has HDNet changed the processing they use during the intake cycle with the elements they're provided? Or is there something else at work here? I don't know, but it seems like a fairly remarkable coincidence when suddenly virtually every new arrival is looking exceptionally good. Whatever it is, I'm not complaining :), and I'd give all of the above top marks in the PQ department.

- Tim

Well, we don't need them to make excuses or beg for forgiveness. But if the quality is truly improving I hope folks with access to HD Net will give them the positive feedback they need and deserve.

- Tom (with still no HD Net access on Comcast)

Tom,

I certainly agree, but it would be nice to have some confirmation that they've changed something, if in fact they have, if only to avoid speculation. Unfortunately, such acknowledgement would probably result in questions about what was changed that they would prefer not to answer. OTOH, perhaps they're simply looking for untainted feedback, to evaluate how the changes (if any) are being received.

Viewers may also be withholding comment until they've seen how the rest of the month plays out. There are still quite a few more films premiering in January...

- Apocalypse Now Redux - New for January!
- Every Time We Say Goodbye - New for January!
- Freejack - New for January!
- Guns Of The Magnificent Seven - New for January!
- Hexed - New for January!
- La Bamba - New for January!
- Midnight Cowboy - New for January!
- Moscow On The Hudson - New for January!
- Nothing In Common - New for January!
- A Passage To India - New for January!
- Paths Of Glory - New for January!
- Police Academy 5: Assignment: Miami Beach - New for January!
- The Principal - New for January!
- Private Resort - New for January!
- Silkwood - New for January!
- St. Elmo's Fire - New for January!
- Superfly - New for January!

which should provide more than enough samples to make an independent determination. Hopefully, by the end of the month we can tally the results, and (if deserved) their most vociferous detractors (the Wun Flung Dung family :)) will be equally lavish in their praise.

- Tim

Gary,
> Clear and Present Danger was stunning tonight, HDNet's new showing's are looking VERY good and I am seeing film grain and plenty of details. Quigley Down Under was Amazing. Tailor of Panama was not that hot though. <

Did Tailor exhibit the kind of smearing and DNR artifacts you've reported previously, in other films? I only had time to notice that it looked much better in high contrast daylight scenes than it did in low lighting.

I'd also be very interested if you could check one of the excellent airings, and snapshot a frame without much saturated color, to see if there is still any hint of the subtle chroma tinting (reddish cast to grays) you observed on the worst films, or if that has been eliminated as well.

- Tim

Tom,

I certainly agree, but it would be nice to have some confirmation that they've changed something, if in fact they have, if only to avoid speculation. Unfortunately, such acknowledgement would probably result in questions about what was changed that they would prefer not to answer. OTOH, perhaps they're simply looking for untainted feedback, to evaluate how the changes (if any) are being received.

Viewers may also be withholding comment until they've seen how the rest of the month plays out. There are still quite a few more films premiering in January...

- Apocalypse Now Redux - New for January!
- Every Time We Say Goodbye - New for January!
- Freejack - New for January!
- Guns Of The Magnificent Seven - New for January!
- Hexed - New for January!
- La Bamba - New for January!
- Midnight Cowboy - New for January!
- Moscow On The Hudson - New for January!
- Nothing In Common - New for January!
- A Passage To India - New for January!
- Paths Of Glory - New for January!
- Police Academy 5: Assignment: Miami Beach - New for January!
- The Principal - New for January!
- Private Resort - New for January!
- Silkwood - New for January!
- St. Elmo's Fire - New for January!
- Superfly - New for January!

which should provide more than enough samples to make an independent determination. Hopefully, by the end of the month we can tally the results, and (if deserved) their most vociferous detractors (the Wun Flung Dung family :)) will be equally lavish in their praise.

- Tim

You forget to mention Arlington Road for January and it looked horrendous! I was starting to think the same thing, maybe things were/are starting to change. I am still optimistic because the films that have been getting good feedback lately all deserve it.

You forget to mention Arlington Road for JanuaryNo, he didn't. He's listing movies that are premiering in January -- Arlington Road's been on HDNet Movies for a while now.

Darrin "Arlington Road" was on a year ago, I don't know why HDNet labled that as new

Tailor had that awful DNR look and it was bad, I don't know if it is worth a 2$ tape or not

I can put up a screen grab from Tailor

-Gary

Darrin,

nope, I didn't forget to list Arlington Road, because it wasn't "New for January".

Unfortunately, I never bothered to tag all my recordings with the airing dates (which I have regretted more than once), but from its position in the sequence, it looks to me like AR first aired on HDNM back somewhere around Spring 2005, probably March, along with Full Metal Jacket and In the Heat of the Night.

- Tim

Geez, I go off to look up AR, and by the time I get back, several "helpers" have jumped in. :) Thanks, guys.

Gary commented,
> Darrin "Arlington Road" was on a year ago, I don't know why HDNet labled that as new <

They do make mistakes, from time to time. But it is corrected on their web site now. Sometimes they even list something as an "HD Premiere - first time aired in HiDef" by error. Like "Freejack", which I recorded in HD from HBO (at 2.35 AR, no less), about a year ago. If you e-mail them though, they're really good about correcting stuff like this (usually the same day).

> Tailor had that awful DNR look and it was bad, I don't know if it is worth a 2$ tape or not. I can put up a screen grab from Tailor <

Thanks, but I think that will just confirm previous examples. I was just curious if one of the "good examples" had also eliminated the subtle chroma tint, or not. Perhaps something like the upcoming black & white "Paths of Glory" would expose that... if it turns out to be sharp.

- Tim

Ok, ok...I get it. At least that is what it (originally) said on their website. Either way, Arlington looks like crap. On a sidenote, Dog Day Afternoon MORE then made up for it. VERY impressive as it is another one of my favorites. If only Cuckoos Nest (and The Professional) could have looked that good. I really think things are changing (or have changed). Next test, Apocolypse Now.

I saw a preview for Paths and it look's sharp as a tack ;)

Dog Day was on around a year ago also, I remember watching it back then and being very pleased

-Gary

OK, time for an update to posting #563 above...

First off,

- Superfly - New for January! 1972 (1:31)
9:45 PM ET - Sun, Jan 15th - Classics
1:00 AM ET - Mon, Jan 16th
3:35 AM ET - Sun, Jan 29th - HD Premiere

has been dropped from the rotation for January, and shifted into February. I don't mind them doing this (I know it's unavoidable at times), but it is annoying when things disappear without notice. I'd like to see all changes logged.

h891/t2= NMV Tailor of Panama, The '01 (1:49) @235 <noGrain> *1
h894/t1= NMV Nothing in Common '86 (1:58) <grain>
h897/t2= NMV Every Time We Say Goodbye '86 (1:38) <someGrain>
h902/t1= NMV Moscow on the Hudson '84 (1:55) @178 <grain+vSharp>
h909/t1= NMV Police Academy 5 '88 (1:27) @178 <noGrain,but> *2
h915/t2= NMV Against All Odds '84 (2:01) @178 <grain>
h918/t2= NMV Passage to India, A '84 (2:43) @178 <grain>
h921/t1= NMV Apocalypse Now Redux '01 (3:23) @200 <someGrain> *3A few comments...

*1) there's a lot of variability here. Much is soft, with evidence of DNR, with things improving in bright, high-contrast lighting. But at times, downright muddy. In the Cantina scene, it's obvious there's a lot of background grain on the walls that's been tamed with processing.
*2) no grain, but contrast and detail are good.
*3) some grain is evident throughout, but a very tight depth of field makes lots out of focus, even foreground imaging. Lots of sharp detail and grain is visible at times.

"Against All Odds" is interesting. The runtime is 2:01, like the DVD release, and unlike the theatrical and Laserdisc release at 2:08 (according to IMDb). There's plenty of detail and grain evident... a very good balance. When this aired on Showtime, there was even more grain... so much so in fact that it was rather distracting. A significantly better showing on HDNet, IMO. Also, the OAR on this one was 1.85, but aired on both HDN and SHO at 1.78.

[NB: AN-redux aired at an aspect ratio of ~2.00, but is listed at 2.35 on IMDb.]

What I'm observing this month is an almost across the board shift in the PQ of films premiering on HDN in January, with "Tailor of Panama" being the only real exception. I could speculate on what's happening, but I'll hold off until the remaining 9 new films have aired. One thing is certain... suddenly we have more than a dozen examples (virtually ALL new airings) exhibiting significantly different characteristics than the bulk of the films from recent previous months. Coincidence?

- Tim

Besides being an excellent drama with superb direction by David Lean, Passage (http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/movie.html?v_id=37349) was one of the best HD transfers I've seen. The intense sunlight and cinematography captured an amazing range of textures throughout, with great color, too. Consider film grain a defect, myself, and only spotted it briefly near the end as a boat was paddled over a mountain lake.

Enjoyed HDNet's delivery, but even though the quality was remarkable, couldn't help but wonder how a transfer at 4k--6k resolution from the negative, capturing most of the finest resolution, then viewing it with a suitable display, would appear. My cable STB, as apparently with most STBs, limits resolution to <1300 lines/PW maximum. The typical transfer/storage process seems similarly limited, although there are pro and con (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6762954&&#post6762954) views on the latter point (see last paragraph in link). Higher-resolution transfers of older films produced before today's 4k-scan digital-intermediate production process, have been made by John Lowry, coupled with an enhancement process (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3681611#post3681611) using some 600 G5 Apple Macs in a supercomputer configuration. -- John

I have noticed improvements on HDNet also, only new premiere's though, movies that are being brought back from previous showing's are still not looking too hot

AN Redux being showed at 2.0:1 is what Coppola prefers(plenty of good info on this with a goodle search if anyone is interested)

AN Redux doesn't have quite the look of the Showtime airing, the Showtime airing as usual doesn't have that slight ghosty smeared look(though this seems to be reduced alot on recent HDNet Premieres)

Clear and Present Danger was smokin', can't wait for Fear and Loathing next month

-Gary

Gary commented:
> I have noticed improvements on HDNet also, only new premiere's though, movies that are being brought back from previous showing's are still not looking too hot <

Right. I think that was the point I was trying to make. I.e., that something has changed in the intake procedures, where the elements are processed at the point of entry into the system. Non-premiere films from previous months still residing on the video servers will not have been re-processed under the same parameters as the new films, and will thus be unchanged. (Another reason for not announcing that changes were made, to avoid inevitable queries of "When will you be reprocessing all the old films?". I think I already know the answer to that one. :()

I.e., the claim that it's simply a transfer limitation, and that almost all of the transfers from December were one way, and virtually all from January are suddenly at the other end of the spectrum. Kind of defies credibility.

> AN Redux being showed at 2.0:1 is what Coppola prefers(plenty of good info on this with a goodle search if anyone is interested) <

Thanks! That's cool, and I wasn't aware of that. I was just making an observation on listed OAR, and the AR I measured off the screen. I had no problem with 2.0 at all.

John Mason added:
> Consider film grain a defect, myself <

I wouldn't disagree, and lest anyone get the impression that I equate more grain = better quality, I'd like to set the record straight. Certainly I'm not advocating that grain be added to an otherwise soft, low resolution image. But the fact is that most films (certainly the older ones) have some element of grain present, and being able to perceive that in the final delivered content acts as a good cue/clue that processing hasn't removed either it or the underlying detail from the transfer. OTOH, the complete absence of all traces of grain is a good indicator that processing has been performed to an extreme that it's probable that sharpness and detail have been sacrificed as well, yielding a soft and "muddy" look. That's what I object to, and what my observations indicate isn't happening any more.

E.g., "Moscow on the Hudson" doesn't have a huge amount of grain, but is very sharp and detailed. Likewise, "Quigley." "Against All Odds" had a lot of grain accompanying it's detailed presentation, but tamed over the extreme level evident when I pulled out my tape from when it aired on Showtime. The SHO version may have been closer to the film stock, but grain was really at an objectionable and distracting level. The HDNM airing was superior, and yet still preserved detail (kudos!). OTOH, I have the suspicion that if it had been aired a month earlier, the amount of processing that would have been necessary to eliminate the grain would have resulted in a very soft and unsatisfying presentation. But that's just speculation on my part.

Also,
> ...couldn't help but wonder how a transfer at 4k--6k resolution from the negative, capturing most of the finest resolution, then viewing it with a suitable display, would appear. <

Huh? What would a "suitable display" for 6k resolution be? How would you deliver any content? Seems more suitable for a "flights of fantasy" thread. :) We're just trying to get 2k delivery, while the sat cos. and STB manufacturers are pulling towards 1k. At 6k, you're off in never-never land, my friend. :D

- Tim

Gary commented:
Huh? What would a "suitable display" for 6k resolution be? How would you deliver any content? Seems more suitable for a "flights of fantasy" thread. :) We're just trying to get 2k delivery, while the sat cos. and STB manufacturers are pulling towards 1k. At 6k, you're off in never-never land, my friend. :D

- Tim

2K "delivery" is just fine. But 4k capture and telecine means any of that nasty filtering of grain or telecine noise can be done at higher frequencies before being downsampledto a clean, 2k detailed, and still compressible 2k for transmission/delivery.

But if you start with 2k capture or early processing then 2k delivery is probably meaningless in most cases since every step along the way taxes its pound of flesh & pixels.

- Tom

Also,
> ...couldn't help but wonder how a transfer at 4k--6k resolution from the negative, capturing most of the finest resolution, then viewing it with a suitable display, would appear. <

Huh? What would a "suitable display" for 6k resolution be? How would you deliver any content? Seems more suitable for a "flights of fantasy" thread. :) We're just trying to get 2k delivery, while the sat cos. and STB manufacturers are pulling towards 1k. At 6k, you're off in never-never land, my friend. :D

- TimI think the original comment was how such an image would look, not how it would be delivered. Hi-Rez scanning and displays do exist.

Good points, Tom and TVOD. Thanks.

- Tim

Superfly was pulled from the HDNet Movies schedule due to inherent problems in the master. It did not pass quality control and there is little that Warner Bros can do to fix it since the problems are in the master. We hate pulling titles, but sometimes we must. For example, we were supposed to air The Godfather trilogy this month, but rejected it because the first two films are upconverts. We will only play the trilogy when all 3 films are properly converted to HD.

Parts 1 & 2 have HD transfers. Paramount simply provided you the upconverts they have for the DVD. Their bad.

Superfly was pulled from the HDNet Movies schedule due to inherent problems in the master. It did not pass quality control and there is little that Warner Bros can do to fix it since the problems are in the master. We hate pulling titles, but sometimes we must. For example, we were supposed to air The Godfather trilogy this month, but rejected it because the first two films are upconverts. We will only play the trilogy when all 3 films are properly converted to HD.


Great news!

It is only when the market rejects low quality that producers have much incentive to improve.

- Tom

Parts 1 & 2 have HD transfers. Paramount simply provided you the upconverts they have for the DVD. Their bad.

GF 1&2 were shot 4x3. Plus as I remember the print HBO used wasn't that good to start with. Perhaps the material provided to HDnet was in fact HD but not the best quality.


Great news!

It is only when the market rejects low quality that producers have much incentive to improve.

- Tom

If so we have a dilema. If the IP or print on the shelf is not that great the only way to improve it is a new IP. That's expensive on top of the new HD transfer. The IP will run about $20,000 and the transfer about $60,000 for a basic HD only version. I doubt any pay TV network is going to shell that out nor is the studio at this time for "cable TV". If and when an HD-DVD version is made, Paramount may decide to re-print and transfer for a special edition DVD. That's the only time when this makes econimic sense.

So do we simply not show these movies because they aren't stellar quality? I think that's short sited too. If the transfer is the best that can be economically run at this time, why not just show it as is. There are viewers that still watch movies for the content and not use them as test signals.

2K "delivery" is just fine. But 4k capture and telecine means any of that nasty filtering of grain or telecine noise can be done at higher frequencies before being downsampledto a clean, 2k detailed, and still compressible 2k for transmission/delivery.

But if you start with 2k capture or early processing then 2k delivery is probably meaningless in most cases since every step along the way taxes its pound of flesh & pixels.

- Tom

Not going to happen on released prints. 2K (2048x1556) is also 444 color space. That cannot be transferred to any tape format in real time. Disks can capture it real time but then any tape archive is non-realtime.

For DI work, 2K is essential, now even 4K. But you won't see video transfers from IP at 2K or any higher. It simply makes no economic sense when we can transfer 1920x1080p/24 in real time and the end market is HDTV. There may be some 444 transfers to the new HDCAM-SR but again for strict home video distribution this makes little sense as all home delivery formats are 422.

The only feasible way to get a home video master downrezzed from a 2K or 4K digital release "print" is to do it while in the dI stage. Fortunatly this is being done more and more but obviously only on new releases.

Superfly was pulled from the HDNet Movies schedule due to inherent problems in the master. It did not pass quality control and there is little that Warner Bros can do to fix it since the problems are in the master. We hate pulling titles, but sometimes we must. For example, we were supposed to air The Godfather trilogy this month, but rejected it because the first two films are upconverts. We will only play the trilogy when all 3 films are properly converted to HD.
Thanks for the explaination! I was wondering what happened to Superfly when it disappeared from the schedule.

Bummer about the Godfather Triolgy. :-(

Gary commented:
> [i]
Right. I think that was the point I was trying to make. I.e., that something has changed in the intake procedures, where the elements are processed at the point of entry into the system. Non-premiere films from previous months still residing on the video servers will not have been re-processed under the same parameters as the new films, and will thus be unchanged. (Another reason for not announcing that changes were made, to avoid inevitable queries of "When will you be reprocessing all the old films?". I think I already know the answer to that one. :()

- Tim

This does seem to be the case but I must question what processing is being done other than MPEG encoding. The master supplied by the studio is ready for use. any noise reduction and enhancement was done in post production where they have the tools, enviornment, and trained people to do it. The role of the broadcaster these days is to simply play it back. With the stability of today's broadcast tape formats, even routine level adjustments from machine to machine are no longer nessecary.

GF 1&2 were shot 4x3. Plus as I remember the print HBO used wasn't that good to start with. Perhaps the material provided to HDnet was in fact HD but not the best quality. Here we go again. Almost all non-2.35:1 films are shot with 1.37:1 35mm film and then masked for 1.85:1 in theaters. GODFATHER was no exception. ALL THREE were shot that way. All three were shown in theaters at 1.85:1.

The 4X3 open matted transfers are just that, the entire 35mm frame with no mattes. Got it?

There are 16X9 transfers which were done in 1080i or 1080p (I do not recall which). They exist. Coppola supervised them, though he says he wants to do new transfers at his new facility soon.

Case closed.

Here we go again. Almost all non-2.35:1 films are shot with 1.37:1 35mm film and then masked for 1.85:1 in theaters. GODFATHER was no exception. ALL THREE were shot that way. All three were shown in theaters at 1.85:1.

The 4X3 open matted transfers are just that, the entire 35mm frame with no mattes. Got it?

There are 16X9 transfers which were done in 1080i or 1080p (I do not recall which). They exist. Coppola supervised them, though he says he wants to do new transfers at his new facility soon.

Case closed.

Ok, 1:37 vs 1:33, close enough for this discussion. We wern't talking about the theatrical showing so what does it matter how they project it. HBO aired the 1:33 OR 1:37 version. I have it on tape.

And yes I "get it" working for the worlds largest film company!

The HBO transfer was an 480i transfer. It was not HD.

The HBO transfer was an 480i transfer. It was not HD.

It was advertised in HD but we know that's not always accurate. Perhaps this is why it's soft?

Ok, 1:37 vs 1:33, close enough for this discussion. We wern't talking about the theatrical showing so what does it matter how they project it. Because if the image is composed for the 1:85 matte, and the entire academy framing image area is used for 4:3, then parts of the image that were not intended to be viewed are visible. Lots of headroom.

Glimmie, they constantly screw up and say they have an HD transfer that turns out to be 4X3. :(

Parts 1 & 2 have HD transfers. Paramount simply provided you the upconverts they have for the DVD. Their bad.

actually they dont. I sat with a Paramount tech who begged me to invest money with the original producers so they would go back to the originals and do the transfers.

m

actually they dont. I sat with a Paramount tech who begged me to invest money with the original producers so they would go back to the originals and do the transfers.

m

Ok, I think it's time to take up a collection :D

Pony up boyz.

Wow. Than someone at Paramount lied t me. Typical. Oh well.

No wonder Coppola said he wanted to do new 1080p transfers. There aren't any!

Glimmie wrote:
> This does seem to be the case but I must question what processing is being done other than MPEG encoding. The master supplied by the studio is ready for use. any noise reduction and enhancement was done in post production where they have the tools, enviornment, and trained people to do it. The role of the broadcaster these days is to simply play it back. With the stability of today's broadcast tape formats <

I agree with what you're saying, but Mark has already indicated that HDNM doesn't work from pre-fab master tapes, but receives their content as "elements". I was just speculating that this then allowed them the flexibility to perform some of the NR and enhancements in-house, and this stage may have had recent changes (with very positive results).

- Tim

Young Guns double feature previews looked smokin hot :)

I think it is safe to say that something has improved with the brand new premiere's, they are a notch better than time past and are much closer to HBO/Showtime

Quigley Down Under was amazing

-Gary

'm sure looking forward to their showing. The previews look very nice.

Glimmie commented:
> The role of the broadcaster these days is to simply play it back. <

This would be correct if it were revised to "typical broadcaster". However, HDNet has shown themselves to be anything but typical. Show me one other broadcaster that provides even a single 24/7 full HD schedule... much less two. HBO doesn't do it. Neither does Cinemax... or Showtime... or etc. TNT sure as he!! doesn't do it. The nationals (NBC, CBS, etc) don't even come close. (To be fair, Discovery-HD also does, IIRC.) And these are all much larger business entities than HDN, with significantly deeper pockets.

So the possibility that HDN does things differently than the crowd shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

- Tim

Glimmie wrote:
> This does seem to be the case but I must question what processing is being done other than MPEG encoding. The master supplied by the studio is ready for use. any noise reduction and enhancement was done in post production where they have the tools, enviornment, and trained people to do it. The role of the broadcaster these days is to simply play it back. With the stability of today's broadcast tape formats <

I agree with what you're saying, but Mark has already indicated that HDNM doesn't work from pre-fab master tapes, but receives their content as "elements". I was just speculating that this then allowed them the flexibility to perform some of the NR and enhancements in-house, and this stage may have had recent changes (with very positive results).

- Tim

They are either getting standard video tapes or pre compressed MPEG files as suggested by someone else here. What else could it be? We know they aren't doing transfers themselves so that rules out any form of film. This isn't that complicated. The films are transferred to video tape, mainly HDD5. I know becuase I work in a mastering facility and have been in many others. There is no "secret" format for HDnet. Furthermore good quality HD noise reduction and enhancement equipment is in the $100K class. Again I know what's available in the market. They don't have some secret box.

Personally I like the pre-encoded theory. That would explain why HDnet has little control over the delivered quality. Perhaps the encoding people were put on notice and that's why the quality improved.

And HDnet's signal flow is far less complicated than a TV station or large cable network like HBO as they have no upconversions or SD feed to worry about. It's simply HD all the time.

Thanks, Glimmie. Your professonal insight is always appreciated.

> Perhaps the encoding people were put on notice and that's why the quality improved. <

Could be as simple as they were told (or felt it was "best") to eliminate "excessive grain" (which due to it's difficulty to compress can result in artifacting), and simply went too far with the DNR.

- Tim

I'd like to ring in this thread for the first time. I've had HDNet Movies for as long as it's been on DirecTV. I really do like HDNet Movies for the movies they play compared to the stuff HBO shows. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to sit around and watch movies all the time like I used to. Anyway....

I remember seeing red faces and times when it looked like there was some sort of white see through hanky placed over the picture on HDNet Movies. There have been other times where the picture has not looked that bad at all and other times it has looked really good. The other day I was flipping through the channels and saw "Quigley Down Under." I had to stop and stair at the picture because it looked really really good. For a moment I felt like I was watching a movie projected onto a miniature screen...that's how good it looked to me. Then I saw someone fire a gun with lots of poofy smoke that messed up the picture for a brief second (but that's another story.) Another thing I have always noticed was how good the previews looked compared to the actual movies. I remember always thinking, why can't the movies look as good as the previews. Sometimes I would only watch the previews and turn the channel as soon as the movie started. I read that the previews now look even better along with the movies (on the newest titles for HDNet Movies.

The point is, if there are improvements like what is being reported here, I'm all for it. It seems now that everyone is waiting for more of the new releases to be shown before making a judgement as to if there is any real difference or not.

So what is the next new movie? I went to HDNet's website and see that La Bamba has a "premier" and Silkwood has a "HD-Premier." Both are tonight. I hope we are able to use both of these to help judge with what's going on.

It's also good to know that a thread such as this can help call attention to certain things that otherwise may not have been attended to and worked on till years from now.

In "Silkwood" the color was is bit red on Kurt Russell's skin. The black level (brightness) seemed to be a little bit too high and picture looked overall kind of soft...though that all may look different on other sets.

I'm not able to capture screen shots so I can only mention what I see.

I sat and watched the trailers for the movies between the shows. A several things for sure...The video quality of the trailers were much better than the movie I had just seen, (Silkwood). "La Bamba" looked worlds better than "Silkwood" and for one reason or another, HDNet Movies looks really bit starved coming from DirecTV. Everytime there's a quick scene change or a bit of quick action, it all breaks apart.

I'll keep a watch (with what ever time I have) to see if there's any improvement. And I'll keep reading this thread and hope that one day the video quality improves to the point of looking more like Showtime-HD. Too bad Showtime-HD does not have as interesting movies like HDNet Movies then again, that's all personal preference.

As far as D* bit rates on HDNM its really, really low. Even for HD-Lite.

I will post how much bit rate on some HDNM movies later.

Of you can just look here: DFW DirecTV Bitrate Meter (http://www.widemovies.com/dfwbitrate.html).

The bitrate for HDNet Movies varies from 7-10Mb/s. For comparison, 10Mb/s is about the max for conventional (standard definition) DVD, 16-18.2Mb/s is what most OTA HD channels broadcast.

As far as D* bit rates on HDNM its really, really low. Even for HD-Lite.

I will post how much bit rate on some HDNM movies later.

I know. They have taken one of the best channels and destroyed it. It barely looks better than a superbit DVD.

Of you can just look here: DFW DirecTV Bitrate Meter (http://www.widemovies.com/dfwbitrate.html).

The bitrate for HDNet Movies varies from 7-10Mb/s. For comparison, 10Mb/s is about the max for conventional (standard definition) DVD, 16-18.2Mb/s is what most OTA HD channels broadcast.


I spoke to HDNET movies in regards to their programming and was told that all material is transferred from 35mm to HD and broadcast at 19.2Mbps. They told me that DirectTV compresses further...wheras my cable company does not....

I don't think that HDNet sends out 19.2 Mbps(not saying you are wrong Kurajo, as you are the messenger)everything I have seen points to HDNet sending out around 17.5 Mbps

I am not sure on that matter

-Gary

I don't think that HDNet sends out 19.2 Mbps(not saying you are wrong Kurajo, as you are the messenger)everything I have seen points to HDNet sending out around 17.5 Mbps

I am not sure on that matter

-GaryWasn't there zero stuffing on their stream to make it 19.2 CBR?

Wasn't there zero stuffing on their stream to make it 19.2 CBR?

No reason to stuff it to 19.2 CBR. It's not broadcasting on an ATSC frequency OTA.

HDnet uses the ATSC rate of 19.39 Mbps for all their Transport Stream encoding (including their D-VHS tapes). It's the rate of their uplink on Galaxy 13. 28076 ksps * 2 * 3/4 * 188/204 = 38.811 Mbps for the transponder. But both HDNet and HDNet movies are on the same transponder, so 38.811/2 = 19.405 Mbps.

The video rate is 17.6 Mbps CBR with zero stuffing. When re-multiplexed on DBS or cable, the Transport Stream rate will be around 18 Mbps or so.

Ron

Or, when recompressed by DirecTV, HDNet 13-15Mbps, HDNet Movies 7-10Mbps. ;)

Does anyone know if Wolfen was in 5.1?

Here is what everyone was wanting

Apocalypse Now on Showtime VS HDNet Movies
someone provided me with some of the Showtime version(Thanks You :))
untouched 14.2 Mbps bitrate 1920x1080i for Showtime
1920x1080i and the usual 17.98 Mbps Bitrate for HDNet Movies on Dish

Both are untouched from source to this cap(ie:no provider recompression)

Showtime:
http://home.bigsandybb.com/gmurrell/HDTV/ANShowtimeSmall.jpg (http://home.bigsandybb.com/gmurrell/HDTV/ANShowtime.jpg)

HDNet Movies:
http://home.bigsandybb.com/gmurrell/HDTV/ANHDNetSmall.jpg (http://home.bigsandybb.com/gmurrell/HDTV/ANHDNet.jpg)

HDNet Movies is the clear winner to me, I have been comparing the 2 movies all day and every cap I have shows HDNet to have more film grain and it is slightly sharper


Way to go HDNet Movies!!!

You have just officially beaten Showtime or HBO for the first time, IMHO :) :)

-Gary

Does anyone know if Wolfen was in 5.1?

flags were there - and there was a center channel.

Way to go HDNet Movies!!!If there was a change somewhere, it would be interesting to find out what it was. Anyone know any experts that know who the real experts are?

There was obviously a change somewhere, but it has to be in the intake and not the output, because films that premiered before like "Arlington Road" that are now showing again look like typical HDNet Movies trash

I have seen some damn good stuff lately on HDNet Movies
AN, Clear and Present Danger, Moscow on the Hudson, Above the Law

-Gary

Anyone know any experts that know who the real experts are?


Im a real expert. When your a real expert that makes everyone else just an expert. If everyone else is just and expert that makes it impossible for me to refer you to another real expert:)

I'm not a real expert (or even a virtual expert). But some days I like to dress up and pretend to be one on the Internet. ;)

- Tom

are my caps working for everyone??, you should be able to click on them and a new window pops up, using some advanced UBB code ;)

-Gary

OK, looking at them very carefully I think the HDNet version may, just may be slightly more detailed. It's barely perceptible on my 24 inch Dell, but maybe on a projector of 95 inches I'd see a clear difference.

I've viewed the Showtime Apoc Now broadcast to be HD at its best. It never fails to impress people who see it on my setup.

You didn't quite get the exact same frame (look at his teeth).

Just to be picky on comparing apples to apples ;)

getting the exact same frame every time and the full 1920x1080i image would take me a hour every time, it takes 15 mins to get what I did above

I have compared tons of scenes between these 2 and the HDNet version is slightly better, just a smidge, haven't compared the 5.1 DD tracks yet

-Gary

nm, at first i thought showtime was the clear winner, now i'm not sure

getting the exact same frame every time and the full 1920x1080i image would take me a hour every time, it takes 15 mins to get what I did above

I have compared tons of scenes between these 2 and the HDNet version is slightly better, just a smidge, haven't compared the 5.1 DD tracks yet

-Gary

I'd be very interested in reading what you might find out about the 5.1 DD tracks. I remember when "The Wall" aired on HDNet Movies, I was disappointed with the video and audio quality. The video looked only a little bit better than the DVD and the audio was super poor compared to the DVD.

The video portion seems to be improving like you said. I hope they are able to keep it up.

As far as the sound quality, I have not paid enough attention to that...except for "The Wall". I did not blame HDNet Movies for the poor sound as I knew it mostly had to do with the so so copy they received. Not only that, the DVD prided itself with the work that was put into the soundtrack...so it was kind of unfair to compare the audio...at least with that movie.

Again, I'd be interested in reading what you find out about the audio. I've always been under the impression that the audio on HDNet Movies has always been as good as the audio source they receive.

I will check out the audio tonight up in my HT room

-Gary

Back in November, RGB asked:
> Is there a definitive list of all movies aired on HD-Net Movies? All HD Net channels? <

I bookmarked that request, with the intent to get back sooner, but have had no time to respond until now, while I'm sitting here sick at home :( (just a miserably bad cold), with not much else to do.

As for the "All Net channels", there have been only a handful of films that aired on HDNet at all (things like Easter Islands, In God's Hands, perhaps Winged Migration?, etc.) but AFAIK, nothing there that hasn't also appeared on HDNet Movies as well.

While I'm not aware of any "comprehensive" lists, I did go back and pull data from some of my tape logs, then filtered on NMV and sorted by name. This certainly isn't everything that's aired on HDNet Movies, since my cable co. didn't start offering the service until Sep/2004, and I probably let a few slip through the cracks. Also, eventually HDNM did start airing films I had already seen and recorded on Showtime-HD, and I didn't always bother with those if they looked good and were in OAR originally from SHO. So I lost a few more there. I did manage to come up with ~450 films, though a few are double listings from their AKA names.

1492: Conquest of Paradise '92 (2:25) @235 (SOFT)
1776 '72 (2:45) @235
2 Days in the Valley
29 Palms
52 Pickup
8 Heads in a Dufflebag
9 1/2 Weeks
Above the Law '88 (1:39) @178
Accused, The
Adventures of Sebastian Cole, The
After Dark, My Sweet '90 (1:54) @235
Against All Odds '84 (2:01) @178 (oa185)
Alfie '66 (1:54) =235
Alice's Restaurant
All the President's Men '76 (2:18)
Amadeus: the Director's Cut '84 (3:00) @235 [aka, Peter Shaffer's...]
American Gigolo '80 (1:57)
American Hot Wax '78 (1:31)
American Ninja
American Rhapsody, An
Andre
Angel Heart '87 (1:53)
Angus '95 (1:29) =178
Annie Hall
Any Which Way You Can '80 (1:56)
Apartment, The '96 (2:05) @235
Apocalypse Now Redux '01 (3:23) @200
Arlington Road
Arrangement, The
Arthur 2: On the Rocks
Avanti! '72 (2:24) =185
Baby Boy '01 (2:09)
Bad Boys
Bad Day at Black Rock
Badlands
Bananas '71 (1:22)
Band of Angels
Band of the Hand
Battle of the Bulge
Beethoven's 2nd
Better Way to Die, A
Big Picture, The '89 (1:40)
Big Town, The '87 (1:49) @178
Big Wednesday '78 (2:00) =235
Bird
Birdcage, The '96 (1:59) @185 BLURRY!
Black Beauty
Black Stallion, The
Blade Runner '82 (1:57) =235,Director'sCut
Blood Simple '83
Bloodhounds of Broadway
Blue Chips '94 (1:48)
Blue Steel '90 (1:42) @185
Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice
Bob Roberts '92 (1:42)
Body Heat '81 (1:53) @178
Body Snatchers '93 (1:27) =235
Boiling Point
Bound for Glory '76 (2:27) =185
Bounty, The '84 (2:12)
Brainscan
Brewster's Millions
Bride of the Wind
Brigadoon
Bronco Billy '80 (1:59)
Bullitt '68 (1:54) @178/185
Butterfield 8
Bye, Bye, Birdie
Candidate, The
Carrie '76 (1:38)
Casualties of War '89 (1:53) @235
Chameleon
Chances Are '89 (1:48)
Cheyenne Autumn
China Moon '94 (1:39) @235
ChristopherColumbus: TheDiscovery '92 (2:00) =235
Cimarron
Cincinnatti Kid, The
Circuitry Man
Circus '00 (1:35)
City Hall '96 (1:52) @178
City Heat '84 (1:37) @178/soft
Clear and Present Danger, A '94 (2:21) @235
Close Your Eyes '02 (1:44) @235 (aka,Doctor Sleep/Hypnotic)
Club Paradise '86 (1:36)
Code Hunter '02 (1:40) aka:StormWatch/VirtualStorm
Company Man
Company of Wolves, The '84 (1:35) @178 (oa=166)
Con Express '02 (1:34)
Conversation, The '74 (1:53)
Coogan's Bluff '68 (1:34)
Cookie '89
Cool World '92 (1:42)
Countdown
Court Jester, The '55 (1:41) @178
Cowboys, The '72 (2:08) @235
CQ '01 (1:31) @178
Crazy in Alabama '99 (1:51) =235
Crocodile Dundee II
Cromwell '70 (2:19) =235
Crossroads-Macchio/Gertz '86 (1:39)
Cruel Intentions '99 (1:38)
Cutaway '00 (1:44)
Cyborg
D.O.A. '88 (1:36)
Dad
Dances With Wolves '90 (3:54) @235,Director'sCut
Dark Half, The '93 (2:02) @185
Darkman
Days of Thunder '90 (1:47) =235
Dead Bodies '03 (1:23)
Dead Ringers
Deceiver
Delusion '90 (1:37) =235
Destiny Turns on the Radio
Deterrence
Detroit Rock City '99 (1:35) @235
Diggstown (aka, Midnight Sting)
Diner
Distant Thunder
Dog Day Afternoon
Dolores Claiborne '95 (2:12) @235
Donovan's Reef '63 (1:49)
Downhill Racer
Dracula: Dead and Loving It
Dragnet
Drowning Pool, The
Duck, You Sucker (aka, A Fistful of Dynamite)
Dune '84 (2:20)
Easter Islands: Mystery and Magic '04 (1:30)
Elite, The
Emerald Forest, The
Empire Records
Endless Summer II, The
Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room '05 (1:53)
Escape to Victory (aka, Victory)
Every Time We Say Goodbye '86 (1:38)
Every Which Way But Loose
Everybody's All-American
Excalibur
Extreme Measures '96 (1:58) @235
Eyes Wide Shut @178/185
F/X
Falcon Down
Fame '80 (2:14)
Fanny
Fat Man and Little Boy
Fearless
Final Analysis
Finder's Fee '01 (1:40) @178
Firefox
First Daughter '99 (1:34)
First Deadly Sin, The
First Target '00 (1:32) =178
Fistful of Dynamite, A (aka, Duck, You Sucker)
Fled
Flesh and Bone
Flight of the Intruder '91 (1:55) =235
Focus
Fools' Parade '71 (1:38) =185
Forbidden Planet '56 (1:38) =235
Force of One, A
Forget Paris '95 (1:41) @178
Four Days in September '97 (1:45) @178
Fourth Protocol, The
Frank and Jesse
Freejack '92 (1:50) @235
Freeze Frame '04 (1:40)
Freshman, The '90 (1:43)
Frisco Kid, The
Full Metal Jacket
Funny Face '57 (1:43) =178
Getaway, The
Getting Straight '70 (2:05)
Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai '99 (1:56) @178
Ghosts of Mississippi '96 (2:10)
Gladiator '92 (1:42)
Going in Style
Golden Child, The
Goodbye, Mr. Chips '69 (2:26) @235
Goonies, The '85 (1:54) @235
Gorillas in the Mist '88 (2:09) @178
Great Balls of Fire! '89 (1:48) =185
Great Race, The
Great Train Robbery, The
Green Berets, The
Grifters, The
Guilty by Suspicion
Gung Ho (aka, WorkingClassMan) '86 (1:52) @235
Guns of the Magnificent Seven '69 (1:45) @235
Gunshy '98 (1:41)
Hail! Hail! Rock'n'Roll
Hanging Up '00 (1:33)
Hannah and Her Sisters '86 (1:47) @185
Hard Eight
Haunted
Havana
Heartbreak Ridge '86 (2:10)
Hero at Large
Hexed '93 (1:30) @178
Highway '01 (1:37) =235
Hindenburg, The
Hollywood Knights, The '80 (1:32)
Home Fries
Honeysuckle Rose
Hooper
Hour of the Gun '67 (1:41) @235
Houseboat '58 (1:50)
I Could Go on Singing '63 (1:39) @235
I Dreamed of Africa '00 (1:54) @235
I Like It Like That '94 (1:45)
Idle Hands '99 (1:32)
In Country
In Enemy Hands '04 (1:37)
In God's Hands
In the Heat of the Night
Indiscreet
In-Laws, The '79 (1:43)
Innocent Blood '92 (1:53)
Irma la Douce
Iron Eagle '86 (1:57) @178
Jakob the Liar '74 (2:01)
JFK '91 (3:08) =235
June
Justice
K2: The Ultimate High
Killing Fields, The
King of the Hill
Kiss, The '88 (1:38)
Klepto '03 (1:20)
La Bamba '87 (1:48) @178
Landspeed '01 (1:35) @178-soft
Last Dragon, The
Late for Dinner
Legend of Billy Jean, The
Let's Get Harry [aka, the Rescue] '86 (1:42) =178-notOnDVD
Liberty Heights
Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean, The
Life as a House
Little Inside, A
Little Nikita '88 (1:38) @178
Little Princess, A '95 (1:37) =178(185)
Local Hero
Locusts, The '97 (2:03) @235
Long Riders, The '80 (1:40) @185-VerySoft
Lost Horizon '73 (2:18) =235
Lost Souls
Love Wine
Lovesick
Mackenna's Gold '69 (2:08) ar220?
Mad Max
Made in Heaven
Made Men '99 (1:31) @178
Magnificent Seven Ride!, The '72 (1:40) =185
Main Event, The '79 (1:50) @178
Man Who Loved Women, The '83 (1:50)
Man Who Would be King, The
Manchurian Candidate, The '62
Masque of the Red Death
Master of the Game '02 (1:39)
Matewan
McCabe & Mrs. Miller '71 (2:01) =235
Men of Respect
Messenger: TheStoryOfJoanOfArc, The '99 (2:28) =235
Miami Blues '90 (1:37)
Midnight Cowboy '69 (1:53) @185
Midnight in St. Petersburg
Midnight Sting (aka, Diggstown)
Moscow on the Hudson '84 (1:55)
Mosquito Coast, The '86 (1:58)
Mr. Saturday Night
Mrs. Soffel
Murphy's Romance '85 (1:49) @178
Music Man, The
Mute Witness '94 (1:36) @235
Mutiny on the Bounty '62 (2:58) @275!
My Fair Lady
My First Mister
My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
My Man Adam '85 (1:25)
Naked Gun 2 1/2: TheSmellOfFear '91 (1:25)
Navy SEALs '90 (1:53) @185
Network
New Jack City '91 (1:37)
Nicolaus
Night Falls on Manhattan
Night of the Comet
Night of the Generals, The '67 (2:26) @235
Night of the Living Dead
No Man's Land '01 (1:38) =235
No Way Out '87 (1:55) --MISSED!=cableCo outages
North Dallas Forty '79 (1:58) @235
Nostradamus
Nothing but Trouble
Nothing in Common '86 (1:58)
Nutty Professor, The '63 (1:47)
Obsession '76 (1:38) @235
Ocean's Eleven '60 (2:07)
Of Mice and Men '92 (1:51) @185/SOFT
Officer and a Gentleman, An '82 (2:04)
Oklahoman, The
Once Upon a Time in America '83 (3:47)
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest '75 (2:14) @178/185
One More Saturday Night
Open Range '03 (2:18)
Operation Delta Force
Ordinary People '80 (2:04)
Out of Bounds '86 (1:32)
Outland
Owning Mahowny '03 (1:45) @235
Oxygen
Palmetto
Passage to India, A '84 (2:43)
Passion of Mind @235
Pastime
Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid
Paths of Glory '57 (1:26) @133
Picnic '00 (1:36)
Pink Floyd: the Wall
Pocket Money
Point Blank
Police Academy 2: Their 1stAssignment '85 (1:27) =178
Police Academy 3: Back in Training '86 (1:24) @178
Police Academy 5: AssignmentMiamiBeach'88 (1:29)
Power
Price of Glory
Prime Gig, The '00 (1:36) =235
Principal, The '87 (1:49)
Private Resort '85 (1:22) @178,notDVD
Professional, The @235
Protector, The
Protocol '84 (1:35) @178/235-VERY soft
Proximity '01 (1:26)
PT109
Puppet Masters, The '94 (1:49) @235
Pure Country
Quigley Down Under '90 (2:00) @235
R.S.V.P. '02 (1:39)
Raintree Country
Razor's Edge, The
Real Cancun, The
Rebel Without a Cause '55 (1:52) @235
Red Dawn '84 (1:54)
Return of the Living Dead: Part II '88 (1:30) =178
Revenge '90 (2:03)
Revenge of the Pink Panther '78 (1:39) =235
Ride the High Country '62 (1:34) =235
Right Temptation, The '00 (1:33)
Rio Bravo '59 (2:21)
River Rat, The
River, The
Road House '89 (1:54) 235
Road Rage '00 (1:36)
Road to Wellville, The
Rough Magic
Rumble in the Bronx '95 (1:31) =235
Run, Ronnie, Run
Runaway Train
Rush
Russia House, The
Russian Ark
Russians Are Coming!, The (ditto) '66 (2:06) @235
Saint of Fort Washington, The '93 (1:43) @178-notDVD
Sayonara '57 (2:28) =235
Scorpion Spring '95 (1:29) =178/NotOnDVD
Screamers '95 (1:48)
SesameStreetPresents-FollowThatBird '85 (1:28)
Sex and Lucia '01 (2:05) @235
Sex and the Single Girl
Shakespeare in Love '98 (2:03) @235
Shallow Grave '95 (1:32)
Sharky's Machine '81 (2:02) =178/185
Shot in the Dark, A '64 (1:42) =235
Silence of the Lambs, The '91 (1:59) @185
Silkwood '83 (2:11)
Simone (aka, S1m0ne) '02 (1:57)
Sister Mary Explains It All
Six Degrees of Separation '93 (1:51) =235
Slaves of New York
Sliver
Soldier's Story, A '84 (1:41)
Some Like it Hot
Songwriter '84 (1:34)
Soul Man
Space Camp
Space Hunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone
Sphere '98 (2:13) @235+5.1
Splendor in the Grass '61 (2:04) @178-oa185
St. Elmo's Fire '85 (1:48) @235
Star Is Born, A '76 (2:20)
Stars and Bars
Stranger, The '86 (1:29) =178
Strictly Ballroom '92 (1:32) @178
Sudden Impact '83 (1:57) =235
Summer of '42 '71 (1:44) =178-soft
Sunset
Sunshine
Sweepers '98 (1:36)
Sylvester
Tailor of Panama, The '01 (1:49) @235
Tap '89 (1:51)
Tempest
Temptation
Terminator, The @185=OAR
Terms of Endearment '83 (2:12) =178/crawlyBGnoise
There's a Girl in My Soup '70 (1:37)
They Live (aka, John Carpenter's...) '88 (1:34) @235
Thomas Crown Affair ('68)
Threesome '94 (1:33) =178
Thunderheart '92 (1:59) @178
THX 1138
Till Human Voices Wake Us '02 (1:41) @235
Time After Time '79
Touch
Toy Soldiers '91 (1:52)
Triumph of Love, The
True Believer '89 (1:48) (aka: FightingJustice)
Tucker: the Man and His Dream
Unbearable Lightness of Being, The '88 (2:51) oa185
Unsinkable Molly Brown, The
Untouchables, The '87 (1:59) @235/soft
Urban Cowboy '80 (2:12) =235
Urban Legend (aka, Mixed Culture) '98 (1:40) @235
Urban Legends: Final Cut '00 (1:39) =235
Usual Suspects, The
Vibes
Victor/Victoria '82 (2:15) @235
Victory (aka, Escape to Victory)
Virgin Suicides, The
Wager, The
War Within, The '05 (1:37)
What's Up, Doc? '72 (1:33)
White Nights '85 (2:16)
Who Is Cletis Tout?
Wildcats
Wind and the Lion, The
Windtalkers '02 (2:14) @235
Winged Migration '01 (1:31)
Wings of Eagles, The '57 (1:50) @178
Winter Break (aka, Snow Job) '03 (1:38)
Wise Guys '86 (1:31)
Wrong Is Right '82 (1:57)
Year of Living Dangerously, The
Year of the Dragon
You Got Served
Zeus and Roxanne
This list doesn't include any of the new films for Feb/Mar-2006 that have already been announced, but not aired yet. However, if what you're looking for is the scope of films offered by HDNM, this should give a decent perspective. My apologies for the non-uniformities... this is the result of merging several disjoint lists originally maintained in different formats, and I haven't gotten around to cleaning things up yet. [I should probably also point out that films that were particularly gory bloodfests will get short thrift in this list, because they're not my cup of tea, so many were avoided.]

Hopefully, this will at least provide a clue to what RGB was looking for, from a 17-month slice of (most of, ~98%) the HDNet Movies offerings.

- Tim

If thats what you recorded then I bow to you http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/3302/hail2sl.gif

I only have a few caps from HDNM :(

While I'm not aware of any "comprehensive" lists, I did go back and pull data from some of my tape logs, then filtered on NMV and sorted by name. This certainly isn't everything that's aired on HDNet Movies, since my cable co. didn't start offering the service until Sep/2004, and I probably let a few slip through the cracks. Also, eventually HDNM did start airing films I had already seen and recorded on Showtime-HD, and I didn't always bother with those if they looked good and were in OAR originally from SHO. So I lost a few more there. I did manage to come up with ~450 films, though a few are double listings from their AKA names.

This list doesn't include any of the new films for Feb/Mar-2006 that have already been announced, but not aired yet. However, if what you're looking for is the scope of films offered by HDNM, this should give a decent perspective.

Hopefully, this will at least provide a clue to what RGB was looking for, from a 17-month slice of (most of, ~98%) the HDNet Movies offerings.



I would say you have about all of them as I have counted 466 since Spring '04 and probably missed a few or coded them incorrectly. Somewhere I think I read HDNET said they had 700 movies - but that was 18 months ago.

I have noticed their coding on their website still appears to signify they have less than 700 - as I do not see any indexed over 700 and not sure they use less than 3 figures - so it might be closer to 600.


1492 Conquest of Paradise
2 Days In The Valley
8 Heads in a Duffel Bag
8mm
9 1/2 Weeks
10
29 Palms
1776
A Better Way To Die
A Chorus Line
A Clear And Present Danger
A Clockwork Orange
A Fistful Of Dynamite
A Force Of One
A Little Princess
A Nightmare On Elm Street 3 Dream Warriors
A Passage To India
A Shot In The Dark
A Soldier's Story
A Star Is Born
Above the Law
After Dark My Sweet
Against All Odds
Agnus
Alfie
Alice's Resturant
All Or Nothing
All The President's Men
All The Presidents Men
Amadeus
American Gigolo
American Hot Wax
American Ninja
An American Rhapsody
An Officer And A Gentleman
And Staring Pancho Villa As Himself
Andre
Angel Heart
Angus
Annie Hall
Any Which Way You Can
Apocalypse Now Redux
Arizona Dream
Arlington Road
Arthur 2 On The Rocks
Avanti!
Baby Boy
Bad Boys
Bad Day At Black Rock
Badlands
Bananas
Band of the Hand
Barry Lyndon
Battle Of The Bulge
Beethoven's 2nd
Big Wednesday
Birdy
Black Beauty
Blade Runner
Blankman
Blood Simple
Bloodhounds Of Broadway
Bloody Sunday
Blue Steel
Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice
Bob Roberts
Body Heat
Boiling Point
Bound For Glory
Boyz n the Hood
Brainscan
Brewster's Millions
Bride Of The Wind
Bubble
Bullitt
Bye Bye Birdie
C.Q.
Camelot
Career Opportunities
Carrie
Casualties Of War
Chameleon
Chances Are
China Moon
Christopher Columbus The Discovery
Chuck Berry Hail! Hail! Hail! Rock 'N' Roll
Circuitry Man
Circus
City Hall
City Heat
City Of Industry
Clear and Present Danger
Close Your Eyes
Club Paradise
Code Hunter
Colors
Company Man
Company of Wolves
Con Express
Cool World
Court Jester
Crazy In Alabama
Crockodille Dundee II
Crossroads
Cruel Intentions
Cutaway
Cyborg
D.O.A.
Dances With Wolves
Dark Half
Days Of Thunder
Dead Bodies
Delusion
Destiny Turns On The Radio
Deterrence
Detroit Rock City
Diner
Dog Day Afternoon
Dolores Claiborne
Donovan's Reef
Downhill Racer
Dracula Dead And Loving It
Dragnet
Dragon The Bruce Lee Story
Duck You Sucker
Dune
Easter Island Mystery And Magic
Elvis That's The Way It Is
Empire Records
Endless Summer 2
Enron The Smartest Guys In The Room
Every Time We Say Goodbye
Every Which Way But Loose
Everytime We Say Goodbye
Excalibur
Extreme Measures
Eyes Wide Shut
F/X
Falcon Down
Fame
Fargo
Fat Man and Little Boy
Fearless
Final Analysis
Finders Fee
Firefox
First Daughter
First Target
Fled
Flesh And Bone
Flight Of The Intruder
Focus
Fool's Paradise
Fools Parade
Fools' Paradise
Forbidden Planet
Forget Paris
Four Days in September
Four Days in Septemeber
Frank And Jesse
Frank and Jessie
Freebie And The Bean
Freejack
Freeze Frame
Friday The 13th
Friday The 13th Part 2
Friendly Persuasion
Full Metal Jacket
Funny Face
FX
Get Real
Getting Straight
Ghost Dog The Way Of The Samurai
Ghost Of Mississippi
Ghosts Of Mississippi
Gloria
Glory
Going In Style
Goodbye Mr. Chips
Gorillas In The Mist
Great Balls Of Fire!
Guilty By Suspicion
Gung Ho
Gunshy
Hanging Up
Hard Eight
Haunted
Havana
Having Our Say The Delany Sisters' First 100 Years
Heartbreak Ridge
Hero At Large
Hexed
Highway
Hollywood Knights
Honeysuckle Rose
Hooper
Hour of the Gun
Houseboat
I Could Go On Singing
I Dreamed of Africa
In Enemy Hands
In God's Hands
In The Heat Of The Night
Indiscreet
Iron Eagle
Jacob The Liar
JFK
K2
King Of Kings
Klepto
La Bamba
Ladybugs
Landspeed
Late For Dinner
Let's Get Harry
Liberty Heights
Life And Times Of Judge Roy Bean
Life As A House
Little Nikita
Lost Horizon
Lost Souls
Love Wine
Lovesick
Mackenna's Gold
Mad Dog and Glory
Made Men
Man In The Wilderness
Martin & Orloff
Martin and Orloff
Master Of The Game
McCabe and Mrs. Miller
Mean Streets
Men of Respect
Miami Blues
Midnight Cowboy
Midnight In St. Petersburg
Moscow on the Hudson
Mr. Saturday Night
Murphy's Romance
Mute Witness
Mutiny on the Bounty
My Fair Lady
My First Mister
My Man Adam
Natural Born Killers
Navy Seals
Network
New Jack City
Night Falls On Manhattan
Night Of The Comet
Night Of the Generals
Night Of the Living Dead
No Man's Land
No Way Out
North Dallas Forty
North Shore
Nostradamus
Nothing But Trouble
Nothing in Common
Obsession
Ocean's Eleven
Of Mice And Men
Once Upon A Time In America
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest
One More Saturday Night
Open Range
Operation Delta Force
Ordinary People
Out Of Bounds
Outland
Owning Mahowny
Palmetto
Passion Of Mind
Passion Of The Mind
Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid
Paths of Glory
Picnic
Pink Cadillac
Pink Floyd The Wall
Point Blank
Police Academy 2 Their First Assignment
Police Academy 3 Back in Training
Police Academy 5 Assignment Miami Beach
Power
Price Of Glory
Private Resort
Protocol
Proximity
PT 109
Pulse
Pumpkinhead
Quigley Down Under
R.S.V.P.
Rebel Without A Cause
Red Dawn
Remember My Name
Return of the Living Dead Part 2
Return Of The Magnificent Seven
Revenge
Revenge Of The Pink Panther
Richard Pryor Live On Sunset Strip
Ride The High Country
Right Temptation
Rio Bravo
Road House
Road Rage
Rumble In The Bronx
Run Ronnie Run
Runaway Train
Russian Ark
Russians Are Coming the Russians Are Coming the
S1m0ne
Sayonara
Scarecrow
Scarecrows
Scorpion Spring
Screamers
See No Evil
Sex And Lucia
Shakes The Clown
Shakespeare in Love
Shallow Grave
Sharky's Machine
Silkwood
Simone
Six Degrees Of Seperation
Slaves Of New York
Sling Blade
Sliver
Some Like It Hot
Songwriter
Soul Man
Soulman
SpaceCamp
SpaceHunter Adventures in the Forbidden Zone
Species II
Sphere
Splendor in the Grass
St. Elmo's Fire
Stay Tuned
Stigmata
Strange Brew The Adventures of Bob And Doug McKenzie
Strictly Ballroom
Stroker Ace
Subspecies
Sudden Impact
Summer of 42
Sunset
Sweepers
Sylvester
Tap
Taxi Driver
Temptation
Terminator
Terms of Endearment
The Adventures Of Sebastian Cole
The Apartment
The Arrangement
The Astronauts Wife
The Big Picture
The Big Town
The Birdcage
The Black Stallion
The Bounty
The Company of Wolves
The Conversation
The Court Jester
The Cowboys
The Dark Half
The Drowning Pool
The Elite
The Emerald Forest
The Excorcist III Legion
The Fearless Vampire Killers
The Forbidden Planet
The Formula
The Fourth Protocol
The Freshman
The Frisco Kid
The Getaway
The Glass Bottom Boat
The Golden Child
The Goonies
The Great Race
The Great Train Robbery
The Great Waldo Pepper
The Green Berets
The Grifters
The Hindenburg
The Horsemen
The In-Laws
The Killing Fields
The Kiss
The Legend Of Billy Jean
The Locusts
The Long Riders
The Magnificent Seven Ride!
The Main Event
The Man Who Loved Women
The Man Who Would Be King
The Masque Of Red Death
The Matewan
The Messenger The Story of Joan of Arc
The Mosquito Coast
The Music Man
The Naked Gun 2 1/2 The Smell Of Fear
The Naked Gun From the Files of Police Squad
The Naked Gun From the files of Police Squad!
The Night Of The Generals
The Nutty Professor
The Package
The Prime Gig
The Prisoner Of Second Avenue
The Professional
The Puppet Masters
The Razor's Edge
The Real Cancun
The Right Temptation
The River
The Russia House
The Saint Of Fort Washington
The Show
The Silence Of the Lambs
The Tailor of Panama
The Terminator
The Thomas Crown Affair
The Towering Inferno
The Triumph Of Love
The Two Jakes
The Unbearable Lightness of Being
The Untouchables
The Usual Suspects
The Vanishing
The Virgin Suicides
The Wager
The War Within
The Wind And The Lion
The Wings of Eagles
The Year of Living Dangerously
There's a Girl In My Soup
They Live
Threesome
Thunderheart
THX 1138
Till Human Voices Wake Us Up
Time After Time
Toy Soldiers
True Believer
Tucker The Man And His Dream
Two Much
U2 Rattle And Hum
Urban Cowboy
Urban Legend
Urban Legends Final Cut
Vibes
What's Up Doc
White Knights
White Man's Burden
White Nights
Who Is Cletis Tout
Wildcats
WindTalkers
Winged Migration
Winter Break
Wise Guys
Wolfen
Wrong Is Right
Zeus And Roxanne

Very cool, HFA! Thanks for sharing. (There are a couple dups, with/without "!" and apostrophes, which would drop it back to 464.) I had only 445 listed, with 3 dups due to the "AKA Factor", so just 442.

Interesting thoughts on the website coding. I hadn't been aware of that. I do see that M0862 is "Used Cars", New for March. So I'm guessing the number has grown. "Hard Eight" is the "oldest" currently on the schedule, at M0088.

- Tim

Hard eight was on the first day they flipped the switch on HDNet Movies on Directv, way back

I can think of lots of stuff not on these lists you guys posted, for instance "Wild Things", "The Wild Bunch", "Cats Eye", "Stir Crazy" and many more

I would guess HDNet having closer to 900 to 1000

-Gary

Very cool, HFA! Thanks for sharing. (There are a couple dups, with/without "!" and apostrophes, which would drop it back to 464.) I had only 445 listed, with 3 dups due to the "AKA Factor", so just 442.

Interesting thoughts on the website coding. I hadn't been aware of that. I do see that M0862 is "Used Cars", New for March. So I'm guessing the number has grown. "Hard Eight" is the "oldest" currently on the schedule, at M0088.

- Tim


Good catch.

I had not examined it in several months and have not looked at it extensively, but had never seen one starting with a 0 - now we know they exist.

And yes, it appears the total has grown to the number shown to somwhere in the 800s.

Guess we have some catching up to do :(


Hard eight was on the first day they flipped the switch on HDNet Movies on Directv, way back

I can think of lots of stuff not on these lists you guys posted, for instance "Wild Things", "The Wild Bunch", "Cats Eye" and many more

I would guess HDNet having closer to 900 to 1000



As I think I stated, mine is only for the last 2 years - before that - I did not note the source so i cannot say where it comes from at this time - but if you combine the two of our list, I think we can safely say that everything show in last 2 years comes out to just under 500 titles.

I think we pretty much believe its in the mid 800s based on their indexing of the newer stuff now.

BTW, they do not keep the titles in their system once the schedule runs out (or maybe their licensing) but re-ingest it if they decide to show it again. Thus it might be interesting to look at some of their older titles that have shown up again and compare the difference.

Good catch.

BTW, they do not keep the titles in their system once the schedule runs out (or maybe their licensing) but re-ingest it if they decide to show it again. Thus it might be interesting to look at some of their older titles that have shown up again and compare the difference.

I have did that recently, "Arlington Road" for example was just as bad as it was around 1 year ago

I think all this has to do with licensing like you said, I think someone from HDNet said that "Blade Runner" for example was only to be shown that month and never again :eek:

-Gary

I think all this has to do with licensing like you said, I think someone from HDNet said that "Blade Runner" for example was only to be shown that month and never again :eek:

-Gary

Not exactly.... What they told me in an e-mail was that it would be "several years" before they showed it again (which is more or less the same thing - we may have a blu-ray version by then). Who knows how their licensing works...? It would be nice if somebody from HDNet would chime in here and explain how it works. Why is it that something like The Music Man or My Fair Lady (which are certifiably gorgeous on HDNet Movies) gets shown seemingly every month, but Blade Runner has a one-month window and that's it...?

What's up with that? :confused:

Did anybody here watch Thief? It looked excellent compared to the crappy DVD version.

The more popular titles are a fortune to license and therefore are barely shown to keep costs down. It sucks. It really really sucks. But that is life.

Why do you think they already showed Crocodile Dundee II, but never the original? MONEY!

Matt commented:
> The more popular titles are a fortune to license and therefore are barely shown to keep costs down. <

Yep. I'd have to dig back into my logs to get exact info, but IIRC when "No Way Out, 1987; Costner, Hackman, Young" premiered on HDNM back in June or July of last year, the first airing and last airing were no more than 7 days apart! Maybe only 5 or 6. I was painfully aware of this, because that was the week my cable co. was having technical difficulties with the HDN channels, and I was SOL. :( I was able to catch other airings of everything else.

- Tim

HFA noted:
> BTW, they do not keep the titles in their system once the schedule runs out (or maybe their licensing) but re-ingest it if they decide to show it again. <

This is really excellent information to have (I'm sure it's the license, not just the schedule). I wasn't aware of the re-ingest process. In this case, we should probably keep an eye open a few months down the road in case some of the most disappointing transfers from Nov-Dec crop up again. If they've been purged and gone through re-ingest, they could be a horse of a different color, so to speak.

OTOH, while licensing isn't indefinite, it's probably long enough (a year?) on many of the films that even re-airings many months later won't need to have gone through re-ingest. Still... worth paying attention to.

- Tim

I would kill to see Freebie and the Bean in HD. Lucky guy.



I would say you have about all of them as I have counted 466 since Spring '04 and probably missed a few or coded them incorrectly. Somewhere I think I read HDNET said they had 700 movies - but that was 18 months ago.

I have noticed their coding on their website still appears to signify they have less than 700 - as I do not see any indexed over 700 and not sure they use less than 3 figures - so it might be closer to 600.


1492 Conquest of Paradise
2 Days In The Valley
8 Heads in a Duffel Bag
8mm
9 1/2 Weeks
10
29 Palms
1776
A Better Way To Die
A Chorus Line
A Clear And Present Danger
A Clockwork Orange
A Fistful Of Dynamite
A Force Of One
A Little Princess
A Nightmare On Elm Street 3 Dream Warriors
A Passage To India
A Shot In The Dark
A Soldier's Story
A Star Is Born
Above the Law
After Dark My Sweet
Against All Odds
Agnus
Alfie
Alice's Resturant
All Or Nothing
All The President's Men
All The Presidents Men
Amadeus
American Gigolo
American Hot Wax
American Ninja
An American Rhapsody
An Officer And A Gentleman
And Staring Pancho Villa As Himself
Andre
Angel Heart
Angus
Annie Hall
Any Which Way You Can
Apocalypse Now Redux
Arizona Dream
Arlington Road
Arthur 2 On The Rocks
Avanti!
Baby Boy
Bad Boys
Bad Day At Black Rock
Badlands
Bananas
Band of the Hand
Barry Lyndon
Battle Of The Bulge
Beethoven's 2nd
Big Wednesday
Birdy
Black Beauty
Blade Runner
Blankman
Blood Simple
Bloodhounds Of Broadway
Bloody Sunday
Blue Steel
Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice
Bob Roberts
Body Heat
Boiling Point
Bound For Glory
Boyz n the Hood
Brainscan
Brewster's Millions
Bride Of The Wind
Bubble
Bullitt
Bye Bye Birdie
C.Q.
Camelot
Career Opportunities
Carrie
Casualties Of War
Chameleon
Chances Are
China Moon
Christopher Columbus The Discovery
Chuck Berry Hail! Hail! Hail! Rock 'N' Roll
Circuitry Man
Circus
City Hall
City Heat
City Of Industry
Clear and Present Danger
Close Your Eyes
Club Paradise
Code Hunter
Colors
Company Man
Company of Wolves
Con Express
Cool World
Court Jester
Crazy In Alabama
Crockodille Dundee II
Crossroads
Cruel Intentions
Cutaway
Cyborg
D.O.A.
Dances With Wolves
Dark Half
Days Of Thunder
Dead Bodies
Delusion
Destiny Turns On The Radio
Deterrence
Detroit Rock City
Diner
Dog Day Afternoon
Dolores Claiborne
Donovan's Reef
Downhill Racer
Dracula Dead And Loving It
Dragnet
Dragon The Bruce Lee Story
Duck You Sucker
Dune
Easter Island Mystery And Magic
Elvis That's The Way It Is
Empire Records
Endless Summer 2
Enron The Smartest Guys In The Room
Every Time We Say Goodbye
Every Which Way But Loose
Everytime We Say Goodbye
Excalibur
Extreme Measures
Eyes Wide Shut
F/X
Falcon Down
Fame
Fargo
Fat Man and Little Boy
Fearless
Final Analysis
Finders Fee
Firefox
First Daughter
First Target
Fled
Flesh And Bone
Flight Of The Intruder
Focus
Fool's Paradise
Fools Parade
Fools' Paradise
Forbidden Planet
Forget Paris
Four Days in September
Four Days in Septemeber
Frank And Jesse
Frank and Jessie
Freebie And The Bean
Freejack
Freeze Frame
Friday The 13th
Friday The 13th Part 2
Friendly Persuasion
Full Metal Jacket
Funny Face
FX
Get Real
Getting Straight
Ghost Dog The Way Of The Samurai
Ghost Of Mississippi
Ghosts Of Mississippi
Gloria
Glory
Going In Style
Goodbye Mr. Chips
Gorillas In The Mist
Great Balls Of Fire!
Guilty By Suspicion
Gung Ho
Gunshy
Hanging Up
Hard Eight
Haunted
Havana
Having Our Say The Delany Sisters' First 100 Years
Heartbreak Ridge
Hero At Large
Hexed
Highway
Hollywood Knights
Honeysuckle Rose
Hooper
Hour of the Gun
Houseboat
I Could Go On Singing
I Dreamed of Africa
In Enemy Hands
In God's Hands
In The Heat Of The Night
Indiscreet
Iron Eagle
Jacob The Liar
JFK
K2
King Of Kings
Klepto
La Bamba
Ladybugs
Landspeed
Late For Dinner
Let's Get Harry
Liberty Heights
Life And Times Of Judge Roy Bean
Life As A House
Little Nikita
Lost Horizon
Lost Souls
Love Wine
Lovesick
Mackenna's Gold
Mad Dog and Glory
Made Men
Man In The Wilderness
Martin & Orloff
Martin and Orloff
Master Of The Game
McCabe and Mrs. Miller
Mean Streets
Men of Respect
Miami Blues
Midnight Cowboy
Midnight In St. Petersburg
Moscow on the Hudson
Mr. Saturday Night
Murphy's Romance
Mute Witness
Mutiny on the Bounty
My Fair Lady
My First Mister
My Man Adam
Natural Born Killers
Navy Seals
Network
New Jack City
Night Falls On Manhattan
Night Of The Comet
Night Of the Generals
Night Of the Living Dead
No Man's Land
No Way Out
North Dallas Forty
North Shore
Nostradamus
Nothing But Trouble
Nothing in Common
Obsession
Ocean's Eleven
Of Mice And Men
Once Upon A Time In America
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest
One More Saturday Night
Open Range
Operation Delta Force
Ordinary People
Out Of Bounds
Outland
Owning Mahowny
Palmetto
Passion Of Mind
Passion Of The Mind
Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid
Paths of Glory
Picnic
Pink Cadillac
Pink Floyd The Wall
Point Blank
Police Academy 2 Their First Assignment
Police Academy 3 Back in Training
Police Academy 5 Assignment Miami Beach
Power
Price Of Glory
Private Resort
Protocol
Proximity
PT 109
Pulse
Pumpkinhead
Quigley Down Under
R.S.V.P.
Rebel Without A Cause
Red Dawn
Remember My Name
Return of the Living Dead Part 2
Return Of The Magnificent Seven
Revenge
Revenge Of The Pink Panther
Richard Pryor Live On Sunset Strip
Ride The High Country
Right Temptation
Rio Bravo
Road House
Road Rage
Rumble In The Bronx
Run Ronnie Run
Runaway Train
Russian Ark
Russians Are Coming the Russians Are Coming the
S1m0ne
Sayonara
Scarecrow
Scarecrows
Scorpion Spring
Screamers
See No Evil
Sex And Lucia
Shakes The Clown
Shakespeare in Love
Shallow Grave
Sharky's Machine
Silkwood
Simone
Six Degrees Of Seperation
Slaves Of New York
Sling Blade
Sliver
Some Like It Hot
Songwriter
Soul Man
Soulman
SpaceCamp
SpaceHunter Adventures in the Forbidden Zone
Species II
Sphere
Splendor in the Grass
St. Elmo's Fire
Stay Tuned
Stigmata
Strange Brew The Adventures of Bob And Doug McKenzie
Strictly Ballroom
Stroker Ace
Subspecies
Sudden Impact
Summer of 42
Sunset
Sweepers
Sylvester
Tap
Taxi Driver
Temptation
Terminator
Terms of Endearment
The Adventures Of Sebastian Cole
The Apartment
The Arrangement
The Astronauts Wife
The Big Picture
The Big Town
The Birdcage
The Black Stallion
The Bounty
The Company of Wolves
The Conversation
The Court Jester
The Cowboys
The Dark Half
The Drowning Pool
The Elite
The Emerald Forest
The Excorcist III Legion
The Fearless Vampire Killers
The Forbidden Planet
The Formula
The Fourth Protocol
The Freshman
The Frisco Kid
The Getaway
The Glass Bottom Boat
The Golden Child
The Goonies
The Great Race
The Great Train Robbery
The Great Waldo Pepper
The Green Berets
The Grifters
The Hindenburg
The Horsemen
The In-Laws
The Killing Fields
The Kiss
The Legend Of Billy Jean
The Locusts
The Long Riders
The Magnificent Seven Ride!
The Main Event
The Man Who Loved Women
The Man Who Would Be King
The Masque Of Red Death
The Matewan
The Messenger The Story of Joan of Arc
The Mosquito Coast
The Music Man
The Naked Gun 2 1/2 The Smell Of Fear
The Naked Gun From the Files of Police Squad
The Naked Gun From the files of Police Squad!
The Night Of The Generals
The Nutty Professor
The Package
The Prime Gig
The Prisoner Of Second Avenue
The Professional
The Puppet Masters
The Razor's Edge
The Real Cancun
The Right Temptation
The River
The Russia House
The Saint Of Fort Washington
The Show
The Silence Of the Lambs
The Tailor of Panama
The Terminator
The Thomas Crown Affair
The Towering Inferno
The Triumph Of Love
The Two Jakes
The Unbearable Lightness of Being
The Untouchables
The Usual Suspects
The Vanishing
The Virgin Suicides
The Wager
The War Within
The Wind And The Lion
The Wings of Eagles
The Year of Living Dangerously
There's a Girl In My Soup
They Live
Threesome
Thunderheart
THX 1138
Till Human Voices Wake Us Up
Time After Time
Toy Soldiers
True Believer
Tucker The Man And His Dream
Two Much
U2 Rattle And Hum
Urban Cowboy
Urban Legend
Urban Legends Final Cut
Vibes
What's Up Doc
White Knights
White Man's Burden
White Nights
Who Is Cletis Tout
Wildcats
WindTalkers
Winged Migration
Winter Break
Wise Guys
Wolfen
Wrong Is Right
Zeus And Roxanne

The more popular titles are a fortune to license and therefore are barely shown to keep costs down. It sucks. It really really sucks. But that is life.

Why do you think they already showed Crocodile Dundee II, but never the original? MONEY!

So, you think the way it works is they have to pay a licensing fee to someone every time they show a movie? Boy, if that's the case, the "someone" who owns the rights to My Fair Lady and The Music Man has got themselves a nice little annuity from HDNet! :eek:

I've always assume license fees would be set to avoid hot properties becoming overly diluted while certain "annuity" classics might have fees and terms allowing more saturation.

What bothers me is the possible economic incentive to not dilute the very highest quality of movies by releasing only limited resolution or video quality. This would give Hollywood an incentive to ship HDNet slightly less video quality than possible as long as nobody particularly complained about it and HDNet didn't refuse to accept the bad ones.

- Tom

Silence of the Lambs is playing on Voom MonstersHD now. Once again, it is superior to the one that aired on HDNet. Unfortunately, I have no way to dump it to DVHS from the Dish 921. Did anyone get this on DVHS?

So, you think the way it works is they have to pay a licensing fee to someone every time they show a movie? Boy, if that's the case, the "someone" who owns the rights to My Fair Lady and The Music Man has got themselves a nice little annuity from HDNet! :eek:I would assume the fees for those are significantly lower than for newer "hotter" movies. In addition, older productions often allow for "bulk" rights. Instead of paying for individual airings, you pay for a block of time (1 week, 2 weeks, 30 days, etc.). You can air the production just about as much as you want in that time frame.

The same goes for older TV shows. Often channels will purchase the rights to a library of episodes for a period of time. One station I worked at quite a few years back was the sole provider of "Star Trek" for the market. They aired every series (including Voyager before a UPN station was started in the area).

The series that were still in production were weekly "barter" contracts. They were fed down via satellite each week and aired a few days later. There was advertising within some of the breaks already. The rest were inserted by the station.

For series in syndication, there was a weekly "strip" feed that had daily (M-F) episodes set up the same way as the barter shows. Sometimes there would also be a weekend sho, as well.

Both of the above were record once and air once only. You weren't allowed to archive them. The tapes were recorded over with each new feed.

For a couple of the series (TOS and the animated series, then later TNG), they were a library contract. We had the entire series on tape and could air them as we saw fit. We could air any, all or none as often as we wanted. We had annual contracts for those shows. Later, we lost the contract to TOS when SciFi put in a much larger bid to Paramount to be the exclusive channel for it.

So, there are a lot of ways to get the rights to programs. It just depends on the program and how much of a committment you're willing to make.

Silence of the Lambs is playing on Voom MonstersHD now. Once again, it is superior to the one that aired on HDNet. Unfortunately, I have no way to dump it to DVHS from the Dish 921. Did anyone get this on DVHS?


Hmmm....HDLite looking better than full HD.

Where is Gary when you need him :D

School Ties looks very nice.

I've had Verizon FiOS TV for about 1 week now. I still have D* as well. HDNet Movies looks better on Verizon (who, for no good reason, I like to call V* :) ).

I'm looking forward to seeing Winged Migration and Caddyshack :D

I'm also looking forward to HDNet's debut on V* in Fairfax County. Right now my understanding is there are some blackout issues that are preventing HDnet from airing on V* in Fairfax County :( . HDNet is probably my favorite HD channel. Don't get me wrong, it still looks good on D*, but it used to look great on D*! You can't beat Bikini Destinations at full resolution/bitrate!

I've managed to post the following: a near 1920x1080 jpeg (1804x1015) of the resolution screen from the HDNET TEST PATTERN broadcast with these properties: 1920x1080i resolution, 29.97 fps frame rate, and bit rate 19.39 Mbps (DISH6000 STB). It's taking up a lot of screen real estate, but the capture does not sacrifice the original res.

In terms of resolution this jpeg (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/sierrabob/snapshot_ts_1920x1080i.jpg) accurately replicates the original MPEG2 ts file.It might accurately replicate what you're getting from Dish, but that jpg is a terrible reference.

This other source is better:
http://www.feldoncentral.com/hdtv/HDNet/index.php?action=image&filename=TestPattern_01.jpg

http://feldoncentral.2150.com/HDNet/large/TestPattern_01.jpg

Closeup of your file vs the 2nd source:
http://crtforum.com/img/test2a.png vs. http://crtforum.com/img/test2b.png

Look at the extra artifacts around your text:
http://crtforum.com/img/test1a.png vs. http://crtforum.com/img/test1b.png

Your jpg might be 90% similar, but for a test pattern, that's not good enough.

Even the 2nd source is a jpg, which introduces some lossy artifacts. I'll extract the frame tonight and post it as a lossless PNG.

"Black Sunday" looked great, and the remixed (I'm assuming from stereo) 5.1 sound track was suprisingly good.

Red Corner looked like crap. Way to go HDNet Movies. This is absolutely ridiculous. I can not believe that you allow such garbage to be considered HD. Somebody over there needs to be fired, or have their eyes checked.

It might accurately replicate what you're getting from Dish, but that jpg is a terrible reference.

This other source is better:
http://www.feldoncentral.com/hdtv/HDNet/index.php?action=image&filename=TestPattern_01.jpg

http://feldoncentral.2150.com/HDNet/large/TestPattern_01.jpg

Closeup of your file vs the 2nd source:
http://crtforum.com/img/test2a.png vs. http://crtforum.com/img/test2b.png

Look at the extra artifacts around your text:
http://crtforum.com/img/test1a.png vs. http://crtforum.com/img/test1b.png

Your jpg might be 90% similar, but for a test pattern, that's not good enough.

Even the 2nd source is a jpg, which introduces some lossy artifacts. I'll extract the frame tonight and post it as a lossless PNG.

The point of the original post was to provide readers with a close approximation
of the picture quality provided by HDNET through my satellite provider. Given
posting limitations, I think the original image satisfied that goal. I'm happy to see
an interest in trying to accurately recreate the HDNET test pattern in this thread;
I definitely see a difference betweeen the two and will see if I can create a better
image from my ts files. Thanks.



Bob

The first image has better horizontal detail, while the second has better vertical. Which one is supposed to be better? To me horizontal is slightly more important.

Static patterns will demonstrate frequency response of the path, but won't show the "sharpness". I've seen MPEG encoders that looked great on patterns, but looked soft on real images.

Red Corner looked like crap. Way to go HDNet Movies. This is absolutely ridiculous. I can not believe that you allow such garbage to be considered HD. Somebody over there needs to be fired, or have their eyes checked.
I saw this the other day on HDNET Movies. While the movie did have a kind of "haze" to it, I have never seen a different transfer of the movie. Has anyone seen a different one or is this how the movie is supposed to look?

Red Corner looked damn good on Showtime a few years back

-Gary

> Red Corner looked damn good on Showtime a few years back <

Thanks for mentioning that, Gary. When I recorded RC from HDNM a week or so ago, I had completely forgotten I already had the Showtime airing from a couple years back. Digging back through my database, I see it was an early recording (H136). Another tape for the recycle bin.

- Tim

The Showtime version has NO SUBTITLES for the dialogue that is in Mandarin, rendering it useless.

WTF!! is up with that :mad:

the DVD has ugly yellow player generated subtitles, which explains things a little

was there no print available with burned in subs ?

how can you screw something up that bad?

-Gary

All MGM titles with subtitles are screwed up on Showtime, other than the 007 films. MGM's policy is to transfer a print with no subtitles and then add them electronically for each market.

This happened with the upconvert version of Dances With Wolves. No lakota/english subbing...which makes the movie jeeesss a tad difficult to watch in certain parts.

Hey, I know Gary enjoyed them, but Matt, have you watched the Kurosawa flicks on Voom? Seven Samurai didn't look half bad...

I don't have DISH, so that would be a no. I'd love to have them on D-VHS thought. Hint hint. :D

Was the method that HD Net uses for playout established? If they are playing back pre-encoded files, then I would think that the GOP sequences would be identical on each showing. Comparing an I frame from one showing to another would be interesting.

I agree on the soft PQ of Red Corner....but Beverly Hills Cop III is mind blowing sharp as I watch it right now. As clear as anything I have ever seen on HDNET.

Great....now where are I and II?

Great....now where are I and II?
exactly, no matter how good the PQ, it all goes back to the story line and BHC 3
dosent have one.

Speaking of storylines, did anyone catch "The Odd Couple" the other night. I'd never seen it at the movies or in HD, wow, what a fantastic movie, it just sucked me right in. Then along comes Star Wars Episode III, (on HBO) which everyone was raving about and it was so bad (the acting, story etc) I couldn't stomach more than about 15 minutes of it. Bad movies in great HD are still bad movies.

the new Star Wars movies have got to be the wost movies ever made, the acting and script is so bad that it makes Lifetime movies look like the Oscars, I am still amazed whenever I see bits of them

if Lucass would have passed on the directing these would have been killer movies

the only way acting that bad made it to the large screen is that Lucass is surrounded by "Yes" men

the Odd Couple is great ;)

-Gary

Speaking of storylines, did anyone catch "The Odd Couple" the other night. I'd never seen it at the movies or in HD, wow, what a fantastic movie, it just sucked me right in. Then along comes Star Wars Episode III, (on HBO) which everyone was raving about and it was so bad (the acting, story etc) I couldn't stomach more than about 15 minutes of it. Bad movies in great HD are still bad movies.

I couldn't agree with you more (on both points). The Odd Couple is one of my favorites.

I finally got around to checking out this classic from my DVR-ed recording from last month and was super-impressed by the quality. Yes, it's an old film and had some specs on some frames, but the HD Transfer quality was strong throughout. I could detect none of the effects that we were seeing months ago with weak transfers, low bitrate transfers, or whatever....

I agree on the soft PQ of Red Corner....but Beverly Hills Cop III is mind blowing sharp as I watch it right now. As clear as anything I have ever seen on HDNET.

Yep, Beverly Hills Cop III was fantastic. A wonderful transfer.

Fahenheit 451, The Odd Couple, The Running Man... these are some great old movies I was too young to catch when they came out that look great on HDNET. The Running Man (NOT the Ahnold one) with Lee Remick looked fantastic and the European locations were gorgeous, as was Lee Remick. Great flick. It's on again today at 10 am est.

Fahenheit 451, The Odd Couple, The Running Man... these are some great old movies I was too young to catch when they came out that look great on HDNET. The Running Man (NOT the Ahnold one) with Lee Remick looked fantastic and the European locations were gorgeous, as was Lee Remick. Great flick. It's on again today at 10 am est.

You know I was watching a bit of "Running Man" (sort of a "Double Indemnity" in Spain) last night, and the FIRST thing that hit me was how gorgeous Lee Remick was. I never realized, next best thing to Grace Kelly, I guess.

I didn't think anyone else would notice, but there you go......

=NLK=

Uh, oh, just noticed, the antichrist post. Now I'm for it.... :p

You know I was watching a bit of "Running Man" (sort of a "Double Indemnity" in Spain) last night, and the FIRST thing that hit me was how gorgeous Lee Remick was. I never realized, next best thing to Grace Kelly, I guess.

I didn't think anyone else would notice, but there you go......

=NLK=

Uh, oh, just noticed, the antichrist post. Now I'm for it.... :p

She was 28 and gorgeous in 1963; those blue eyes, blonde hair and pink lipstick look great in this film. She looded damn good in a swimsuit too.

Is this HDNet Movies we are talking about? Sounds like things have improved? Is this now true?

I forget what movie it was, however yesterday while whatching the Arena Bowl in HD I would flip to the movie that was on HDNet Movies and just like I have seen before, it was kind of soft looking like a see through white sheet that was placed over my screen.

I'll think about what movie it was, and post back. I just can't remember the name of the movie it was...

They still have movies that look like that, like "Red Corner," discussed above, but many look excellent.

I hope you guys realize that you are killing those of us not fortunate enough to have HDNET in our area!

A Fistful of Dollars is coming up this Sunday night at 8:00pm. :)

Is this HDNet Movies we are talking about? Sounds like things have improved? Is this now true?

I forget what movie it was, however yesterday while whatching the Arena Bowl in HD I would flip to the movie that was on HDNet Movies and just like I have seen before, it was kind of soft looking like a see through white sheet that was placed over my screen.

I'll think about what movie it was, and post back. I just can't remember the name of the movie it was...

Did you figure out what that movie was? The Steve Martin (no wackyness!) dentist movie looked excellent last night. It was like watching Lifetime (wifetime?) HD. And Lee Remick rules! I can't wait till some of her older stuff comes up in HD.

Is it just me or did anyone else think Scarface looked fantastic for a film made around 23 years ago? I was shocked by the detail. I watched it via Dish Network and can hardly wait to record tonights showing. :) What a great movie!!!!!!

No it wasn't just you. It looked fantastic.

How does it compare to the version that was shown on UniversalHD?

Did you figure out what that movie was? The Steve Martin (no wackyness!) dentist movie looked excellent last night. It was like watching Lifetime (wifetime?) HD. And Lee Remick rules! I can't wait till some of her older stuff comes up in HD.


Yep, I remember it now... "Gorillas in the Mist". The black level looked soft and so everything looked soft. Is this one of the older transfers?

The promos for Gorillas looked sensational, but the film itself looked terrible, suggesting that some sort of filtering was applied before airing.

Did you figure out what that movie was? The Steve Martin (no wackyness!) dentist movie looked excellent last night. It was like watching Lifetime (wifetime?) HD. And Lee Remick rules! I can't wait till some of her older stuff comes up in HD.

http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/81/73/75m.jpg

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0234354/

The promos for Gorillas looked sensational, but the film itself looked terrible, suggesting that some sort of filtering was applied before airing.

I grew so tired of this BS when I viewed HDNet Movies(before I gave up on broadcast HD)
every damn time I would see a preview and comment on how good it looked and get all excited in the process

I was then kicked in the jimmy :mad: as it is a soft mess when it aired

WTF!! is up with that :mad:

I just don't get it :(

-Gary

It's all a cleverly devised scheme to get you to want to go out and buy the DVD.

I grew so tired of this BS when I viewed HDNet Movies(before I gave up on broadcast HD)
every damn time I would see a preview and comment on how good it looked and get all excited in the process

I was then kicked in the jimmy :mad: as it is a soft mess when it aired

WTF!! is up with that :mad:

I just don't get it :(

-Gary

It would be interesting to collect a bunch of good previews and the matching soft yucky same scenes from the eventual movies on the same channels. Then we could make vague rumbling noises about false advertising, conspiracies, etc.

Though I don't expect to actually do anything about it. But it would still be nice to be able to conclusively prove, if true.

- Tom

It would be interesting to collect a bunch of good previews and the matching soft yucky same scenes from the eventual movies on the same channels. Then we could make vague rumbling noises about false advertising, conspiracies, etc.

Though I don't expect to actually do anything about it. But it would still be nice to be able to conclusively prove, if true.

- Tom

Shouldn't be that hard to do for those guys with capture cards. How about it HTPC dudes? Nothing like solid proof to bolster your arguments.

I'm too lazy, plus, I don't have enough HDNet trailers...Though I did see a recent trailer that looked awesome...

I saw them promoting their showing of 2001: A Space Odyssey after another movie, and it looked -incredible-.. if it looks anything near that when they actually show it (and I have faith it will), then I will be reallly happy.. lots of good movies coming up in July..

I saw them promoting their showing of 2001: A Space Odyssey after another movie, and it looked -incredible-.. if it looks anything near that when they actually show it (and I have faith it will), then I will be reallly happy.. lots of good movies coming up in July..
I've set my computer to remind me July 1st of both the 2001 and 2010 HDNet showings. Haven't caught any previews, but sure hope the full features match preview PQ. Haven't compared lots of HDNet previews versus features, but did notice the excellent PQ of the Gorillas in the Mist preview and the haziness of the full feature. -- John

I'll have both deck timered for recording 2001.

Watched "The Color Of Money" last night and was thorougly unimpressed with the picture quality -- in fact, it exhibited all the worst problems of a bit-starved HD picture -- motion blur (at times), blocky swatches of color in solid patches (walls, the green of the pool tables, etc.), and blurry, indestinct picture. :-(

Other problems (the overall darkness of the print, the haziness of the picture) seem likely to have been directorial choices by Martin Scorsese.

Big letdown after I've been recently highly impressed by HDNet's beautiful presentations of "1984", "The Time Machine", and even a very nice presentation of "Monty Python's The Meaning Of Life" which probably wasn't filmed with the biggest budget......

"A Star is Born" (1954)

- Very soft transfer
- Weird anamorphic stretching

"A Star is Born" (1954)

- Very soft transfer
- Weird anamorphic stretching

I dvred this. Will check it out as soon as I get home.

Hard to believe that HDnet would stretch anything! Some of these older films do have odd OAR.

"A Star is Born" (1954)

- Very soft transfer
- Weird anamorphic stretching
I don't see any weird stretching. The 1954 Star is Born has a OAR of 2.55:1 which was common for the early cinemascope movies from that era. From the bits I watched, the picture quality varies. But based on what I see at imdb.com, HDNet is showing the 176 minute long restored version, parts of which were probably taken from the best copy available.

Added: I am looking at the movie on HDNet as I write this and I do see some distortion at the far left and right parts of the picture. The vertically straight pillars and walls are slightly curved. I believe this is due to the early cinemascope technology that this movie was shot in. Perhaps someone more knowledgable on the lens & film technology of the era can fill us in.

I don't see any weird stretching. The 1954 Star is Born has a OAR of 2.55:1 which was common for the early cinemascope movies from that era. From the bits I watched, the picture quality varies. But based on what I see at imdb.com, HDNet is showing the 176 minute long restored version, parts of which were probably taken from the best copy available.

Yes, it is the restored version. Many times throughout the movie you'll see production stills substitued for lost film elements.

Anyhow, I don't doubt that the OAR is correct, but the geometery is noticibly distorted at the edges of the frame, probably because of the CinemaScope process. Is there any way to transfer these movies that produces a flat image, or is projecting them on a curved screen the only way to watch these movies correctly?

Well I am watching my DVRed copy on my 92" screen.

The colors are spectacular...and yes it is soft. Would probably look sharper at 42" than 92".
Still I assume that Mark obtained the best print possible.

Finally got to watching this (cinema classic ;) ) the other day, and HDNet Movies did a great job of presenting this one. If it's on again, don't hesitate to check it out. Picture was clear and stable, and the 5.1 was very nice.

Yep... I'm watching "Pulp Fiction" on StarzHD now... looks great, but it ain't 2.35

Wow... that Big Kahuna burger really does look tasty.Clarence there is a fabulous OAR Pulp Fiction from Showtime, it looks so good

-GaryWoohoo! Starz-HD finally showed Pulp Fiction in OAR last night!

Woohoo! Starz-HD finally showed Pulp Fiction in OAR last night!


Yep, I noticed that as well. I am very curious to see how it compares to the very low bitrate version that was on Showtime.

I watched a few minutes this morning and it looked great.

Here's the Pulp Fiction OAR thread that I was looking for, but it's in the archives now:
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6839892&&#post6839892

Here's a comparison from Starz' improved broadcast to the frames that we captured last year:

DVD 2.35:
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/2526/pf1dvd9pv.th.jpg (http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/2526/pf1dvd9pv.jpg)

StarzHD (last year's, non-OAR, cropped broadcast):
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/7901/pf1starzhd9iq.th.jpg (http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/7901/pf1starzhd9iq.jpg)

MickeyDora's OAR from Showtime HD:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9638/pulpfictionoarhd5ja.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9638/pulpfictionoarhd5ja.jpg)

Last night's OAR from Starz-HD:
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/1982/pulpfictiongn6.th.jpg (http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/1982/pulpfictiongn6.jpg)

This is one of my top 3 movies... even better in OAR HD!

I watched a few minutes this morning and it looked great.

Here's the Pulp Fiction OAR thread that I was looking for, but it's in the archives now:
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6839892&&#post6839892

Here's a comparison from Starz' improved broadcast to the frames that we captured last year:

DVD 2.35:
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/2526/pf1dvd9pv.th.jpg (http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/2526/pf1dvd9pv.jpg)

StarzHD (last year's, non-OAR, cropped broadcast):
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/7901/pf1starzhd9iq.th.jpg (http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/7901/pf1starzhd9iq.jpg)

MickeyDora's OAR from Showtime HD:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9638/pulpfictionoarhd5ja.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9638/pulpfictionoarhd5ja.jpg)

Last night's OAR from Starz-HD:
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/1982/pulpfictiongn6.th.jpg (http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/1982/pulpfictiongn6.jpg)


This is one of my top 3 movies... even better in OAR HD!

back up last night Starz-HD one frame :D

Has anyone noticed a drop in HDnet Movies PQ lately ...or is this something my provider (TWC) is responsible for ..... Before MHD appeared and INHD2 vanished, HDnet Movies looked beautiful ....but now, it's full of compression artifacts and that type of "dancing" compression I used to notice on INHD2. The regular HDnet channel looks great...as to all the other channels ....so, what's going on w/ HDnet Movies? Does it have something to do w/ their end, or TWC? I tried watching Close Encounters and some other movies and it just looked too horrible...I hope this isn't permanent....I mean, it's a damn shame when movies on TNT look better than HDnet

Has anyone noticed a drop in HDnet Movies PQ lately ...or is this something my provider (TWC) is responsible for ..... Before MHD appeared and INHD2 vanished, HDnet Movies looked beautiful ....but now, it's full of compression artifacts and that type of "dancing" compression I used to notice on INHD2. The regular HDnet channel looks great...as to all the other channels ....so, what's going on w/ HDnet Movies? Does it have something to do w/ their end, or TWC? I tried watching Close Encounters and some other movies and it just looked too horrible...I hope this isn't permanent....I mean, it's a damn shame when movies on TNT look better than HDnet

I am sure that your cable provider has adopted a "quantity over quality" philosophy in regards to their offerings. There is probably little you can do about it, other than complain to TWC. HDNet has typically been a provider of the highest available bandwidth, so when you notice a decline in PQ with them, you can almost bet they are reducing the bandwidth.

I am sure that your cable provider has adopted a "quantity over quality" philosophy in regards to their offerings. There is probably little you can do about it, other than complain to TWC. HDNet has typically been a provider of the highest available bandwidth, so when you notice a decline in PQ with them, you can almost bet they are reducing the bandwidth.

I have a feeling if I call up TWC, they'll have no clue.....if what you're saying is true - I wonder ...why would it be JUST that channel? I flipped through all the HD channels...and they all look crystal clear with minimal artifacting only noticable (to me) during fast moving scenes and such. Right now, HDnet just looks like a big pixelly mess. "The Quick and the Dead" is on right now...and it looks like a friggin' bootleg!!! Giant pixels and miscolored blotches! UGH! There are a ton of movies I wanted to see on HDnet Movies this month, and if they're gonna look like ass...gyah!

RATE SHAPING (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=618881)

I have a feeling if I call up TWC, they'll have no clue.....if what you're saying is true - I wonder ...why would it be JUST that channel? I flipped through all the HD channels...and they all look crystal clear with minimal artifacting only noticable (to me) during fast moving scenes and such. Right now, HDnet just looks like a big pixelly mess. "The Quick and the Dead" is on right now...and it looks like a friggin' bootleg!!! Giant pixels and miscolored blotches! UGH! There are a ton of movies I wanted to see on HDnet Movies this month, and if they're gonna look like ass...gyah!

I just got HDnet Movies from my switch to Comcast to TimeWarner Cable. I watched a few movies (i.e., Karate Kid Part II and Apocalypse Now Redux) and noticed exactly what you are talking about.

The picture quality is atrocious. The movies are unwatchable because of the pixelations (even without any fast movement). What a waste of a channel. If this has something to do with TW cable, does anyone know what we could do about it? Do they even realize this or what?

I would appreciate anyone's experience in dealing with cable companies when it comes to issues like these. HDnet Movies seems to show many movies that I would like to watch, so this is a shame.

I just got HDnet Movies from my switch to Comcast to TimeWarner Cable. I watched a few movies (i.e., Karate Kid Part II and Apocalypse Now Redux) and noticed exactly what you are talking about.

The picture quality is atrocious. The movies are unwatchable because of the pixelations (even without any fast movement). What a waste of a channel. If this has something to do with TW cable, does anyone know what we could do about it? Do they even realize this or what?

I would appreciate anyone's experience in dealing with cable companies when it comes to issues like these. HDnet Movies seems to show many movies that I would like to watch, so this is a shame.
My loss is your gain. This was one of my favorite channels and the PQ was always superb and because of the switch, it's no longer available to me. The problem definitely lies with your provider. You need to contact HD Net and complain about the PQ of their signal coming from your cable provider.

I just got HDnet Movies from my switch to Comcast to TimeWarner Cable. I watched a few movies (i.e., Karate Kid Part II and Apocalypse Now Redux) and noticed exactly what you are talking about.

The picture quality is atrocious. The movies are unwatchable because of the pixelations (even without any fast movement). What a waste of a channel. If this has something to do with TW cable, does anyone know what we could do about it? Do they even realize this or what?

I would appreciate anyone's experience in dealing with cable companies when it comes to issues like these. HDnet Movies seems to show many movies that I would like to watch, so this is a shame.


This is definately a local cable issue and not the fault of HDnet Movies. I get pristine recordings of movies from HDnet M. If the transfer is good and the original print well preserved, the quality is very close to what I get with HDDVD.

This is definately a local cable issue and not the fault of HDnet Movies. I get pristine recordings of movies from HDnet M. If the transfer is good and the original print well preserved, the quality is very close to what I get with HDDVD.

Interesting - can you please give us the titles that you have saved from HDNET and are available on HD-DVD where you have compared them side by side?

Good question. Is there a HD DVD title out there that HDNETM already aired? I could make a comparison screenshot thread or something.

HDNet viewers suspecting that cable system tinkering may be ruining movie PQ might try viewing/recording HDNet's Sunday 6:50 am ET test patterns, measuring the static resolution they're seeing. Outlined some measurement procedures (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9673232&&#post9673232) yesterday, so needn't duplicate them.

Getting a static resolution figure (<1300 lines max horiz. res. is typical) is only part of the story. With a bit rate that's too low, static resolution could be high, while motion, more demanding of MPEG encoding, could still create blocking artifacts. Added some follow-on posts to the link above, mentioning potential influences from STBs, delivery-system rate shaping, and how to also measure delivered bit rates using a DVR. Also, measurements might apply to only one channel, and delivery systems could maximize just one channel. -- John

I have DirecTV and the HDNet picture quality seems pretty good to me. You have to remember that these movies were converted to high definition. If TWC has poor quality, change providers. I did.

I have DirecTV and the HDNet picture quality seems pretty good to me. You have to remember that these movies were converted to high definition. If TWC has poor quality, change providers. I did.I would not let D* off nearly that easily. My experience with HDNet Movies on D* before my recent switch to Comcast was that it was consistently their worst HD channel from a PQ standpoint. It was a travesty what they were doing to it IMO. They have such a great catalog of titles and general reports from people with other providers indicates that they also have high quality HD transfers for the most part as well. On D* with the reduced resolution, low bit rate and filtering it was uncommon to see one of their movies that looked better than DVD. Often times, depending on what else was on the other channels on the transponder, they were worse than that. I witnessed a few where the PQ dipped so low as to look worse than VHS. Truly pathetic and a downright shame.


ron

This is definately a local cable issue and not the fault of HDnet Movies. I get pristine recordings of movies from HDnet M. If the transfer is good and the original print well preserved, the quality is very close to what I get with HDDVD.
Please cite specific movies that you get pristine recordings of.

It is worth noting that I personally observe (on Time Warner in NYC with an SA-8300HD) some movies with spectacular picture quality on HDNet Movies, but other ones (sometimes broadcast directly after or before) which are atrocious. If you look back a few pages on this forum, you'll see some that I've commented on as being particularly good or bad.

It seems to be hit and miss with HDNet Movies.

Scott

watching 'Bram Stoker's Dracula' over the weekend, the HiDef presentation was lacklustre at best, the print seemed too dark and displayed a softness. The 5.1 surround sound was also very lacking - IMO, the DTS Superbit standard DVD soundmix (and image) trounced this by a long shot.

I watched the world's fastest indian a couple times recently and the PQ was downright horrible at times - very significant banding and pixelization. Other movies on the same channel seem to look a little better (Apocalypse Now for example). Did anyone else notice this?

Good question. Is there a HD DVD title out there that HDNETM already aired? I could make a comparison screenshot thread or something.

Superman: The Movie

This is definately a local cable issue and not the fault of HDnet Movies. I get pristine recordings of movies from HDnet M. If the transfer is good and the original print well preserved, the quality is very close to what I get with HDDVD.

Interesting - can you please give us the titles that you have saved from HDNET and are available on HD-DVD where you have compared them side by side?

Good question. Is there a HD DVD title out there that HDNETM already aired? I could make a comparison screenshot thread or something.

Isn't it interesting that after making a statement like that, he suddenly went silent for 45 days :rolleyes:

Tuned in yesterday's award-winning "A Passage to India" again just to enjoy some of the best PQ I've seen from most films. Viewing here via a 64" 9"-CRT RPTV and NYC's TWC and a 8300HD STB that, at least on HDNet, seems limited to <1290 lines (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5175424#post5175424) maximum effective horizontal resolution--which, in turn, is apparently more than movie telecines typically deliver ( outlined (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9314235&&#post9314235) earlier.). Searched the appalling options of HD disc titles yesterday to see if Passage, or something equal, was available (no), which might prompt me to buy, say, a LG dual-format player. Whether the use of digital intermediates (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=808931) for some HD discs (or broadcasts?), as opposed to older telecines and master tapes from lesser-quality prints, makes a significant PQ difference still seems unclear.

Bypassed watching "The World's Fastest Indian" until recently, and didn't have any technical problems here. Thought Anthony Hopkins' acting really carried the film. Note it's a 2.35:1 format (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0412080/technical) but can't recall if it was delivered that way; seem to recall they claim OAR for movies. -- John

I finally got around to checking out The Killing Fields, which I'd recorded on the DVR back in December from HDNet, and the picture quality was about as bad as it gets for HDNet. Really bad motion artifacting, blockiness in fields of solid color, etc.

Ugh.

Very good movie (won 3 Academy Awards), but I really wish HDNet would have done better with the broadcast.

Very good movie (won 3 Academy Awards), but I really wish HDNet would have done better with the broadcast.
I'm curious whether this was cable? My understanding is HDNet is not the culprit.

Last year, one website (DFW Bitrate Monitor) consistently posted shocking 7's and 8's for D* HDNet Movies' bitrates. Basically, I guess Mark Cuban says HDNet can't do anything about it when providers squeeze, shape, twist and whatever else they do because of quantity trumping quality and the economics of it all.

Scott commented:
> I really wish HDNet would have done better with the broadcast. <

Not meaning to pick on you, Scott, because I see this all the time, but what _I_ really wish is every time someone decides to diss a programming source, they include the most basic of all information, which is "via what distribution provider did they receive it?"

Without knowing that, no valid conclusions are possible, and discussion is really a waste of time. Seriously.

Just as an example, pulling content distributors out of the air, "The Killing Fields" may have: sucked horribly on d*, sucked not too bad on e*, looked very good on my Charter cable feed with 3-channel stat-muxing, been excellent on someone else's cable carrier with straight unmolested pass-through. This would have been the exact-same broadcast originating from HDNet Movies (which you "wish would have done better"), and yet the end-viewer experiences would have been radically different.

Unfortunately, people keep omitting THE most important link in the distribution chain when they make their evaluation commentary... which makes for frustrating reading.

- Tim

And as a followup, the situation is even more complicated for cable providers, because you have to factor in other considerations.

Back when my cable co. had 2 channels per carrier, there was never a problem with HDNet Movies (that wasn't self-imposed, or due to the transfer they obtained). But now I have to be sensitive to time-of-day, because once they went to 3-channel stat-muxing... things are still fine 90% of the time. However, since they paired the HDNets with ESPN-HD, when games are airing in HD, sometimes the PQ on HDNM will suffer. Yet the same film aired at a different time of day will be pristine.

So I can't just automatically make a call on HDNet PQ without considering other factors. It's a complicated world, and getting more complicated all the time. With the one constant seeming to be that as time goes on, things are getting worse. :(

- Tim

After the horrible quality on "The Killing Fields", this one was a relief. Much better pic quality -- very sharp except in one or 2 scenes where I noticed some artifacting.

This was a good, touching sort of movie, with Judd Hirsch and River Phoenix....

Scott