This topic is found in all of the HLR threads so I figured I'd start it's own.

If you have lip sync problems, lets try and figure them out there. Post your setup and results for others to see!

the audio lag is apparent only with a 480i signal for me. the way i see this is if i split the incoming cable signal, with one cable going directly into the hlr5067's tuner, and the other going into the motorola 6412 box, which then sends audio to my onkyo receiver using optical out and video to the tv using component video cables.

if i turn on the audio on my receiver (which gets its signal from the motorola 6412), but tune the tv to the antenna input, i can see the audio/video lag, and actually hear the audio lag between my home theater speakers (which are being fed from the receiver) and the tv's speakers (which are being fed the direct cable signal). this only occurs on 480i signals/channels. if i switch to 720p/1080i, the audio/video lag goes away and no more echo between the home theater and tv speakers. haven't tried this out on 480p, but i doubt there will be any noticeable lag there. just for 480i. hope that helps.

the audio lag is apparent only with a 480i signal for me. the way i see this is if i split the incoming cable signal, with one cable going directly into the hlr5067's tuner, and the other going into the motorola 6412 box, which then sends audio to my onkyo receiver using optical out and video to the tv using component video cables.

if i turn on the audio on my receiver (which gets its signal from the motorola 6412), but tune the tv to the antenna input, i can see the audio/video lag, and actually hear the audio lag between my home theater speakers (which are being fed from the receiver) and the tv's speakers (which are being fed the direct cable signal). this only occurs on 480i signals/channels. if i switch to 720p/1080i, the audio/video lag goes away and no more echo between the home theater and tv speakers. haven't tried this out on 480p, but i doubt there will be any noticeable lag there. just for 480i. hope that helps.

aircasper ... sorry, but your test configuration is completely invalid. It is not reasonable to expect your internal tuner to stay in sync with an external HD DVR.

Valid test configurations would be either of these two:

1. Supplying both audio (to receiver) and video (to HDTV) from the Motorola 6412.
2. Supplying video from internal tuner and audio via the optical out on the HDTV to the receiver.

I just received my HLR-5667W on Tuesday :) And I must say I am in Love with it the PQ is Amazing.

My config is as follows.
1. Cable box Straight to the TV via component 1(might change it later to go straight into my SA-XR70S and then to the HLR-5667W) to see if I get any LIP SYNC issues.
2. DVD (S97S) HDMI - SA-XR70S HDMI - SA-XR70S HDMI(out) - HLR-5667W HDMI
3. XBOX to component 2
I have not noticed any LIP SYNC issues at all.

I think the lip sync issues are only when you have a home theater system in the mix. Mine has a delay from the Onkyo system and the TV sound (when I have audio going to both).

Sorry guys, I'm confused on this. I'm about to take delivery on my 5067 this Saturday, so I want to test for this as well...

Where is the delay? On the TV or the audio receiver? Meaning, which unit is heard first? I'm assuming the audio receiver? So the TV audio is the feed that's lagging, correct?

It seems to make sense since people are talking about delay settings on the audio receiver, but I want to make sure. I might need to get a receiver that allows delay on the inputs (I need to upgrade anyway).

Thanks for the clarification.

- Wayne

Running audio to both a receiver and a tv at the same time and saying "there is an audible echo" is not a valid test. Of course there is going to be an echo. You need to run it from source to one location and video to one location THEN see if its out of sync.

Examples:

Cable box to tv via component. Cable box to reciever with optical. Bet you there will be delay.

Cable box to receiver via component. Cable box to receiver with optical. Receiver to tv with component. People have responded there is no delay.

Cable box to tv via hdmi. No delay.

Cable box to tv via hdmi. Tv to receiver with optical. No delay but only 2 channel sound.

Cable box to tv via hdmi. Cable box to receiver with optical. Will be delay.

Cable box to tv via hdmi. Cable box to receiver with optical. Will be delay.

This is really disturbing to hear since this arrangement [video directly from the STB to the tv digitally (HDMI), and audio directly from the STB to the AVR digitally (optical)] is the 'preferred' one that is supposed to provide the highest quality (and also provide DD 5.1 etc.). Can others confirm that this arrangement does indeed have lip sync problems? Is it a source problem?

Hi everybody,

my 5067 should be delivered tomorrow so I need to schedule a hook-up with Comcast. I was planning to use a cable card but there are conflicting reports about HLR’s ability to output Dolby Digital 5.1 signal through the digital audio out – is that true? Has anybody tried it and can confirm or refute this claim?

Regards,
Dmitry.

I have read other peoples reports stating they use component from the cable box to the tv and digital output from the cable box to the home theater without sync problems.

I have read other peoples reports stating they use component from the cable box to the tv and digital output from the cable box to the home theater without sync problems.

But having to use component for the video connection detracts from the supposedly superior 'all digital pathway' that has been touted so much. Seems to be self-defeating.

But having to use component for the video connection detracts from the supposedly superior 'all digital pathway' that has been touted so much. Seems to be self-defeating.

There have been posts that HDMI doesn't provide any higher quality over component.

I haven't heard too much on DVDplayer issues. I hope there are none because that may be my primary source. Tomorrow the testing begins. This is the hookup I intend to use:

DVD video to TV - component (no hdmi or dvi)
DVD audio to receiver - rca (receiver doesn't have optical in, dvd has output)

alternate
- DVD video and audio to TV - TVaudio out to receiver (loses 5.1 ?)

I think the lip sync issues are only when you have a home theater system in the mix. Mine has a delay from the Onkyo system and the TV sound (when I have audio going to both).

I don't think it is a reasonable expectation to run audio to your TV and receiver at the same time and expect them to maintain sync. It just indicates that the TV is delaying the audio some small amount (1/2 frame, 1 frame, etc.) to establish an improved sync between picture and sound. The real issue is: with only your receiver audio on, do you percieve a lip sync issue? If so, how severe is it and on what types of sources and material?

I guess this all but confirms lag on the HLR series with 480i material.

Cush

I guess this all but confirms lag on the HLR series with 480i material.

Cush

Which of the posts confirms a Lip Sync issue?

aircasper ... sorry, but your test configuration is completely invalid. It is not reasonable to expect your internal tuner to stay in sync with an external HD DVR.

Valid test configurations would be either of these two:

1. Supplying both audio (to receiver) and video (to HDTV) from the Motorola 6412.
2. Supplying video from internal tuner and audio via the optical out on the HDTV to the receiver.

I agree my setup is not the ideal setup for testing for lag when going through a dvr (the only reason why I have it set up this way is because the motorola box is horrible at passing SD channels, as others have pointed out), but my point is that the lag/echo only showed up with a 480i signal. It may not be reasonable to expect the internal tuner to synch with the motorola 6412, but it does exactly that for hdtv signals (no discernible audio echo), but not with 480i. Just a coincidence? Maybe, but it seems to at least indicate there is still a lag issue with 480i, which as others point out goes away if you run both the audio and video through the tv since samsung apparently delays the audio to match the delay in processing time for a 480i signal. Since most of what I watch is HDTV anyways, it's not a very big issue for me. Anyways, just my 2 cents.

I have read other peoples reports stating they use component from the cable box to the tv and digital output from the cable box to the home theater without sync problems.

That's how I have it set up and don't notice any visible lag, at least with hdtv programming. On my previous set up with a Toshiba 46hm84, I would notice occasional lag with SD programming, but it seemed to depend on the source more than anything else. I expect that same would be true with the Sammy, but I'll have to wait and see.

I agree my setup is not the ideal setup for testing for lag when going through a dvr (the only reason why I have it set up this way is because the motorola box is horrible at passing SD channels, as others have pointed out), but my point is that the lag/echo only showed up with a 480i signal. It may not be reasonable to expect the internal tuner to synch with the motorola 6412, but it does exactly that for hdtv signals, but not with 480i. Just a coincidence? Maybe, but it seems to at least indicate there is still a lag issue with 480i, which as others point out goes away if you run both the audio and video through the tv since samsung apparently delays the audio to match the delay in processing time for a 480i signal. Since most of what I watch is HDTV anyways, it's not a very big issue for me. Anyways, just my 2 cents.

I don't think we can form any opinion about 480i based on this test. 480i on the Motorola DVR is analog and will have to be encoded before for it can be stored on the DVR, but HD is digital and can just be stored digitally.

To test lip sync it is critical that people have their equipment setup correctly ... and then it depends on whether they perceive a lip sync issue while watching the TV. If audio is routed to a receiver, all HDTV's will introduce some amount of video processing delay. The issue is whether it is perceivable.

I don't think we can form any opinion about 480i based on this test. 480i on the Motorola DVR is analog and will have to be encoded before for it can be stored on the DVR, but HD is digital and can just be stored digitally.

To test lip sync it is critical that people have their equipment setup correctly ... and then it depends on whether they perceive a lip sync issue while watching the TV. If audio is routed to a receiver, all HDTV's will introduce some amount of video processing delay. The issue is whether it is perceivable.

lol, alright, i won't argue the point any more. take my test for what it's worth, which may be nothing. i get the sense that people are really hoping that there isn't any lag on these new sets. :) i didn't see any audio/video lag when watching the 2-hour season finale for lost last night, but that was an hd signal. i'll see if i can perceive any lag when watching some 480i shows over the weekend. i guess i'll "force" myself to watch some tv. ;)

Running audio to both a receiver and a tv at the same time and saying "there is an audible echo" is not a valid test. Of course there is going to be an echo. You need to run it from source to one location and video to one location THEN see if its out of sync.

Examples:

Cable box to tv via component. Cable box to reciever with optical. Bet you there will be delay.

Cable box to receiver via component. Cable box to receiver with optical. Receiver to tv with component. People have responded there is no delay.

Cable box to tv via hdmi. No delay.

Cable box to tv via hdmi. Tv to receiver with optical. No delay but only 2 channel sound.

Cable box to tv via hdmi. Cable box to receiver with optical. Will be delay.


I am running my Directv box to my 5667w through HDMI, I am also running TV audio to my Sony receiver with Optical and I have absolutely no lipsync issues with either the regular SD programming, HD programming, DVD or Xbox. I spent several hours last night testing specifc games such as Golf, Halo and racing games looking for any lag and it wasn't apparent.

I am glad this isn't a global thing but maybe it's a specific combonation of certain components that cause this.

I am running my Directv box to my 5667w through HDMI, I am also running TV audio to my Sony receiver with Optical and I have absolutely no lipsync issues with either the regular SD programming, HD programming, DVD or Xbox. I spent several hours last night testing specifc games such as Golf, Halo and racing games looking for any lag and it wasn't apparent.

I am glad this isn't a global thing but maybe it's a specific combonation of certain components that cause this.

So is this true??

Cable box to tv via hdmi. Tv to receiver with optical. No delay but only 2 channel sound.

I'd like more then 2 channel audio...

I am running my Directv box to my 5667w through HDMI, I am also running TV audio to my Sony receiver with Optical and I have absolutely no lipsync issues with either the regular SD programming, HD programming, DVD or Xbox. I spent several hours last night testing specifc games such as Golf, Halo and racing games looking for any lag and it wasn't apparent.


Hmm...maybe we need to start making a list of source models and connections that cause lag and those that don't.

I just got my HLR-5667 from TVA yesterday. This first thing I did was plug in coax from my external OTA antenna. I got it setup just in time to watch LOST on my local ABC's OTA HD broadcast.

LOST had MAJOR lip sync issues. The audio was 1-2 syllables behind the video. The local PBS HD OTA broadcast had no lip sync issues. CBS has very slight lip sync issues. Oddly enough, none of the SD OTA broadcasts showed lip sync isses.

Otherwise - WOW what a TV. LOST in HD looked simply amazing. SD looked like crap, as expected.

Now it would help me out a lot if I could figure out how to make the TV display what kind of signal is being input. I couldn't find a button that would make the TV tell me if it was receiving 480i, 480p, 720p, etc. Surely its there somewhere. Anyone? Anyone?

Later, I hooked up my shiny new (to me) Panasonic S97 DVD player (HDMI to the TV and TOSLINK from the player to AV receiver) and calibrated the "standard" video settings with Avia (ie: no service menu adjustments). Then I watched Fight Club on DVD. I don't recall how good the video in Fight Club is supposed to be. I found it a little grainy. I could also see the occasional dirt/scratch/blemish/whatever in the video - perhaps because his slick new DLP displays a lot of detail I could never see before.....or maybe that means Fight Club wasn't all that for video...I'll have to check the reviews of it. The colors were fantastic except the shadow detail - which is probably due to the lack of firmware upgrade on my Panasonic S97.

The issue with the shadow detail in Fight Club was that very dark areas didn't look as dark as they should and instead looked a bit patchy and reddish. Is this macroblocking? I hope so because the firmware upgrade that I need to put in that DVD player is supposed to cure that.

And back to the audio - there were absolutely no lip sync issues with the Fight Club DVD.

[QUOTE=nickavs]So is this true??



It's absolutely true, I was very worried I was going to have to deal with the lag since I am an avid gamer so i tested all of my configurations.

Samsung HLR5667W
DirecTV HD10-250 Tivo HD Tuner
Sony ES Receiver
Harmon Kardon DVD
Xbox

No lag anywhere.

Update:

(sorry to be a bit dis-org'd in this post and the previous one, but I do kind of rush doing this on my employer's time)

On Fight Club video...

So I read the video was supposed to be gritty or beat-up looking to go along with the theme of the movie. That describes the grain.

And perhaps I overstated the shadow detail problem. It was only in a handful of scenes. The whole movie is pretty dark and its not like it was a constant problem. Though I'd still like to hear if someone thinks this thing I'm seeing is what macroblocking is.

Funny you mention Fight Club, that was the DVD that I choose to watch first to test my new TV on. I realized into it a bit that the DVD itself is very grainy and splotchy which is how it was designed. I then put in Gladiator to test another WOW what a difference. Outstanding picture.

Now if I could stop tweaking the contrast/bright/sharp settings I would be happy :D

Update:

(sorry to be a bit dis-org'd in this post and the previous one, but I do kind of rush doing this on my employer's time)

On Fight Club video...

So I read the video was supposed to be gritty or beat-up looking to go along with the theme of the movie. That describes the grain.

And perhaps I overstated the shadow detail problem. It was only in a handful of scenes. The whole movie is pretty dark and its not like it was a constant problem. Though I'd still like to hear if someone thinks this thing I'm seeing is what macroblocking is.

No lip sync on DVD, right?

No lip sync on DVD, right?

None on either of them, I have some new DVD's to watch this weekend so I will update if I find any issues.

MY DVD to TV connection is component but they seem to be nice quality, they came with the Harmon Kardon player. I do use a Digital Coax cable from the DVD to to the receiver also.

Cable box to tv via component. Cable box to reciever with optical. Bet you there will be delay.
I would take that bet. As I've stated in the owner's thread, there is no significant lag with this configuration.

No lip sync on DVD, right?
I have not experience any lag on DVD - I'm using component video to the TV and digital audio to my receiver.

I have not experience any lag on DVD - I'm using component video to the TV and digital audio to my receiver.

If you have A New Hope on DVD, check the scene where Leah is being interrogated by Vader. I believe the slight sync issue is in the source.
(sync issue only visible on Leah, of course. :D

Right, no lip sync issues on DVD. But i've only watched 2 DVDs and one of those was Avia. :-)

I plan to pop in Master And Commander tonight.

Later, I hooked up my shiny new (to me) Panasonic S97 DVD player (HDMI to the TV and TOSLINK from the player to AV receiver)....
shanec (while this reply is more appropriate for the owner's thread), I think it would be interesting to hook up your audio cable from the TV to the receiver, instead of directly from the DVD player to the receiver. I believe the S97 does output 5.1 audio through the HDMI - so, given this, I wonder it the TV will pass the 5.1 on through the digital audio out?

I have the Panasonic XR70 receiver, which has one HDMI in (and out) - it's basically designed to work with the S97. Haven't been able to find an S97 in stock anywhere though!

shanec (while this reply is more appropriate for the owner's thread), I think it would be interesting to hook up your audio cable from the TV to the receiver, instead of directly from the DVD player to the receiver. I believe the S97 does output 5.1 audio through the HDMI - so, given this, I wonder it the TV will pass the 5.1 on through the digital audio out?


I gave this some thought. And then I pushed some button for the S97 which displayed HDMI status and that indicated that the recieving end of the HDMI (the TV) had indicated that is can only receive DD 2.0.

And that's another issue entirely as there have been complaints that the HLRs don't pass DD 5.1 even though they could if only they'd advertise (throught he HDMI protocol) that they could receive DD5.1.

Still, its worth a try. But I suspect the TV will only output DD 2.0 on that TOSLINK. What a disappointment if that's true.

is DD5.1 available through analog audio connections?

is DD5.1 available through analog audio connections?
The only two avenues by which DD5.1 could possibly be sent to the tv are HDMI and the direct cable in. Every other input is analog stereo L/R.

HDMI in can pass only DD PCM, not sure if it is because the tv cannot accept 5.1 or if the source (stb, dvd plyr, etc) is not actually sending 5.1. I've seen it said that HDMI (the technology itself, not the input in question on the tv) can pass 5.1 but also that HDMI cannot pass 5.1. I don't know who to believe. So if HDMI cannot even pass 5.1 to the tv to start with, the issue might not be Samsung's fault after all.

I have Directv, so cannot test the direct cable feed theory. Anyone care to try this method and comment??

I thought that the problem was the the tv could not pass 5.1 through itself to the AV receiver. Thus one must send the audio (via HDMI, for example) straight from the source (cable STB or dvd player) to the receiver; but people are saying that this generates lip sync.

I didn't say lip sync, I said lag. The same issue with every Samsung DLP where it lags with 480i sources. It's indirectly the cause of lip sync issues.

To the "avid gamer" person, most XBox games are 480p. Set your dashboard to 480i, then report whether or not you get lag in a split-second timing game.

Cush

is DD5.1 available through analog audio connections?


FWIW, IIRC, and other hedging acronyms aside, SACD players output 5.1 via 6 analog outputs.

I didn't say lip sync, I said lag. The same issue with every Samsung DLP where it lags with 480i sources. It's indirectly the cause of lip sync issues.

To the "avid gamer" person, most XBox games are 480p. Set your dashboard to 480i, then report whether or not you get lag in a split-second timing game.

Cush

I thought it was established by me and other PS2 gamers (480i only, for the most part) that there was NO noticeable lag via component directly to the tv. At least for the HLR5067w

If this thread keeps up for any length of time, it will definitiely need a summary of results posting somewhere. Might I suggest (because I'm not going to do it) that this thread either be restarted with the first post being a strawman summary of what we think is known about lag & lip sync (what works; what doesn't) and then modify as info can be verified by users in the field (ala UCSB's effort with the Samsung 2005 thread). Or, that someone posts a summary now that will be edited per verification by users and referred to for best known data. My $02, FWIW.

I've seen it said that HDMI (the technology itself, not the input in question on the tv) can pass 5.1 but also that HDMI cannot pass 5.1. I don't know who to believe. So if HDMI cannot even pass 5.1 to the tv to start with, the issue might not be Samsung's fault after all.
I believe I read over in the DVD players forum that if you hook up an Panasonic S97 DVD player (which I don't have) to a Panasonic XR70 reciever (which I do have) using HDMI, you will get 5.1 audio. I infered from this that the S97 was passing 5.1 over HDMI - so I thought it could be used to check once and for all whether these sets are passing the 5.1 on out the digital audio.

To stay on topic: it seems the only consistent reports of audio synch issues that have been reported with the HLRXX67s occur when the video is connected with HDMI. If these reports turn out to be true (not due to the source, for example), then what could be a possible explanation? Why HDMI and not with component video?

Why HDMI and not with component video?

my guess at that point would be a delay caused when the TV attempts to downconvert the 5.1 it's receiving via HDMI to 2.0 stereo.... which would be a sad state of being for our beloved tv's.

Those with HDMI problems, one question: have you tried turning the internal mute ON? perhaps if it's muting, it knows it doesn't need to remix the incoming audio for the speakers, and then happily stream it out the toslink.

Regarding HDMI - HDMI isn't merely a cable. Its also a protocol. The receiver (the HLR TV) tells the transmitter (the DVD player) to transmit DD 2.0. And that's what's happening. If other devices are getting DD 5.1 over HDMI, its because the reciever (an actual AV receiver or whatever) is telling the tranismitter (DVD player) to send DD 5.1.

seems like it would've been easier if it -was- just a cable.

I was the first person to bring up the lip sync issue. Here is my current set up and what I have tried. In another note, tomorrow I may be telling TWC to shove it and switch back to Direct TV. So, I'll need to know how people have that set up.

Anyway, here it is:

Cable box to TV through HDMI, Cable box to receiver through optical out - severe lip sync
Cable box to TV through component, Cable box to receiver through optical out - severe lip sync
cable box to TV through HDMI, audio from TV to receiver through optical out - no lip sync issue, but no DD 5.1 either.
My receiver is old enough to not have component inputs or output. If I make the change to Direct TV, do you suggest that I buy a new receiver that will handle component cables and run both video and audio through the receiver? Are we sure that there will be no lip sync?

I haven't received my set yet (arrives tomorrow). Can someone check the sound submenu settings and see if that has an effect on outputting 5.1 ? OR verify that your tv was set to output 5.1.......

menu

Mshap,

I just don't understand how some people have no sync problems using the same configuration. Very confusing... Different cable box make a big difference?

bchan, where did you verify that with PS2? It shouldn't matter if you use component cables, S-video, or even composite. If it's 480i, it's 480i. Are you saying you've played a game with sensitive timing (Hot Shots Golf, DDR, sports games with meters, etc) and not seen lag?

When I bought my HLP in September, Samsung specifically told me they'd fix the lag issue and that I wouldn't have to buy a new TV. Seems like they owe me an upgrade.

Cush

Mshap,

I just don't understand how some people have no sync problems using the same configuration. Very confusing... Different cable box make a big difference?

Maybe it is an issue with the cable box. I have had such a miserable experience with TWC, nothing will surprise me. However, that's another topic for another forum.

The Direct TV guy is coming to my place this afternoon. Hopefully, I won't have these issues with their equipment. I'm probably making a mistake shelling out all this dough right before their upgrade, but I'm hoping they will make a good offer on the new equipment.

bchan, where did you verify that with PS2? It shouldn't matter if you use component cables, S-video, or even composite. If it's 480i, it's 480i. Are you saying you've played a game with sensitive timing (Hot Shots Golf, DDR, sports games with meters, etc) and not seen lag?

When I bought my HLP in September, Samsung specifically told me they'd fix the lag issue and that I wouldn't have to buy a new TV. Seems like they owe me an upgrade.

Cush

My normal timing is bad enough that I can't help you with those 'split nanosecond' issues because by the time my hand and eyes coordinate, the kick meter (Madden 2002) is already not where i thought it would be (this is from my CRT experience)
So, as far as I can tell, I'm still doing as badly as I did on CRT.

Grand Theft Auto San Andreas, watching the Weapon Selection box while pressing the shoulder buttons to switch weapon. The switch is instantaneous.
with weapon selection changes, at least I can focus on that specific part of the screen and -know- that when I press the button, I should see an immediate change. the response is immediate.
There's also a DDR segment in GTA that is as playable (for me) as when I had my CRT. namely, I get goods most of the time, with perfect once in a while.

Hrm, this might preclude me taking a PS2 to Best Buy and seeing what happens. I'd hate to get as far as getting my TV replaced and having the same issues. I'm also not keen on the lack of DVI and VGA inputs, but I guess an HDMI->DVI adapter will fix the HTPC.

Cush

Maybe it is an issue with the cable box. I have had such a miserable experience with TWC, nothing will surprise me. However, that's another topic for another forum.

The Direct TV guy is coming to my place this afternoon. Hopefully, I won't have these issues with their equipment. I'm probably making a mistake shelling out all this dough right before their upgrade, but I'm hoping they will make a good offer on the new equipment.


Mshap, I am using the HD-250 Tivo unit from Directv and have no lag what-so-ever using the same HDMI and Optical connections you use. I hope that it resolves your issue.

Hrm, this might preclude me taking a PS2 to Best Buy and seeing what happens. I'd hate to get as far as getting my TV replaced and having the same issues. I'm also not keen on the lack of DVI and VGA inputs, but I guess an HDMI->DVI adapter will fix the HTPC.

Cush

The HLRxx67W series has a VGA input.

Oh, that's good news. I was prepared to give up the idea of the Dreamcast...:) So one DVI->HDMI adapter and I'm back to the setup I have now. I'll have to investigate this further.

Cush

Mshap, I am using the HD-250 Tivo unit from Directv and have no lag what-so-ever using the same HDMI and Optical connections you use. I hope that it resolves your issue.

Thanks. The Direct TV guy is running late. I have my fingers and toes crossed.

Video processing time is related to the formats of the incoming & outgoing signals... setting to your TV's native res should eliminate any processing, or delay.

Some problems with audio lag were shown to be caused by a cheap HTIB system... some are in the source - but that's improving with experience at the stations.

Design bitches: all HD Component & DVI inputs should also have a SPDIF input, since HDTV includes DD 5.1, which can't be carried over an analog stereo pair.

SPDIF should be passed out the 'digital audio out' in full DD 5.1, since the TV can't deal with it. This gives the set a chance to adjust audio sync by video processing time.

Design bitches: all HD Component & DVI inputs should also have a SPDIF input, since HDTV includes DD 5.1, which can't be carried over an analog stereo pair.

I humbly disagree for the following reason:

1) digital audio input on a TV (HD or otherwise) is a waste of $. The TV only has 2 speakers. (unless they start licensing Yamaha's YSP-1 type beaming thing, which would be interesting...)

2) digital audio input belongs on the receiver or pre-pro or what have you that will be driving multiple speakers to actually use the multichannel sound to their proper effect.

3) All HD equipment should have separate digital audio outputs in addition to HDMI/DVI because they should keep the video IO and the audio IO separated, to allow the proper equipment to do their specialized job.

that said, what I really wish for is some way to send synchronization information between the audio and the video equipment so that they can stay in sync with each other.

So who can recommend a product for controling audio delay? These gagets are out there, but not all that prevalent. I've found one, a Fleston, I think for about $200. I was hoping for something more like $50+.

Ok here is my setup; so far I only see a delay on SD channels:


STB to TV (HDMI/DVI)
STB to Receiver (optical)
DVD to TV (component)
DVD to Receiver (optical)

Like I said, only delay is observed on SD channels..... so now what?

Like I said, only delay is observed on SD channels..... so now what?

What model STB and cable system are you on?

What model STB and cable system are you on?

Rochester,NY Time Warner Cable - Scientific Atlanta Explorer 3250HD!

HLR5667W

No lip sync with either.

OTA-TV - sony receiver (rca cables)

DVD audio to sony receiver (rca cable)
DVD component to TV

I also get dolby 5.1; no problems.


I did not try
DVD audio to TV and back out to receiver

>>> EDIT: I'm sorry to report that I do have a slight lip sync problem with the DVD. :mad:

Like I said, only delay is observed on SD channels..... so now what?

stop watching SD, of course. :D

For what it's worth, I noticed a slight delay when comparing a 5067 to a Sony LCD RPTV at a local shop. The two sets were side by side and the Sammy pic lagged a fraction of a second behind the Sony. They were both being fed an over-the-air SD signal.

OK, Direct TV came out to my place Friday evening. They were able to get a line of sight, so I ditched TWC.

I have the HR10-250 HD-DVR from Direct TV.

The DVR is connected to the TV by HDMI. Audio is going from the DVR to my receiver through the digital optical cable. I was seeing no lip sync issue.

However, yesterday I was watching some crappy Saturday morning show on CBS. On the SD channel, there was no lip sync. When I wanted to compare the video quality to the CBS HD channel there was some lip sync issues. My theory is that SD broadcast shown on an HD channel will produce lip sync isues.

A quick note on Direct TV: the picture quality on SD programming was much better than the picture quality from TWC.

My theory is that SD broadcast shown on an HD channel will produce lip sync isues.

Some shows are simply broadcast with audio/video sync issues in them.

That's correct. I noticed lip sync issues from time to time with SD on my CRT TV and OTA reception. At least some of the time, its coming straight from the networks.

But I see it a lot more often in HD with my HLR-5667 w/ TV speakers (direct connection to external antenna).

Interviews at the end of the Indy 500 had some lip sync issues from my SD dish box and 27" CRT. Curses to all of you for making me look for it. :D I'm beginning to believe it has always been there, you just don't notice until things get big???

I work for a large video game company and a couple of months ago I was assigned the task of researching HDTVs to be used for current and future video game development. One of the key things I looked for was video lag. The truth is that I found that ALL HDTVs exhibit video lag to some degree, and that it was always the worst when feeding the sets an SD signal. The lag was reduced when switching from composite video to component, and got a little better still when feeding the sets a progressive signal, but surprisingly there was still a small amount of lag when feeding them an HD signal (even when that signal was in the set's native resolution). In the end, I found that the Sony LCD RPTVs had the least amount of delay, the Samsung was second, and the Mitsubishi last. The lag was readily apparent on the Mits, but you had to know what you were looking for on the Sony. Keep in mind that the tests I did were on the previous generation of Samsung sets, but as I stated in a post a couple of notches up, I went to an AV shop last week to look for a new set of my own and they had a Sony "XS" series LCD RPTV next to a new Samsung "67" series. The Samsung video was still a hair behind the Sony. I couldn't tell if it was less than what I saw in the older sets, but it is still there. I think whether or not you see the problem depends both on how attuned you are to it and the signal you are feeding the set.

Hifisponge --

Was there a standard configuration used during your testing (e.g., was the audio to a receiver and the video to the set; did both audio and video go through a receiver; did both go directly to the set...). Thanks

Hifisponge --

Was there a standard configuration used during your testing (e.g., was the audio to a receiver and the video to the set; did both audio and video go through a receiver; did both go directly to the set...). Thanks

Don -

I was testing for video delay as it relates to the control of a game, not the sound. However, the effect of video delay on game control is analogous to the effect you would experience by feeding the audio to a receiver and the video to the TV.

Here's what I believe is happening. Virtually all HDTVs perform various processes on the video signal before it is actually displayed. The three most intensive processes being to deinterlace, adjust the resolution of the input to match the display's native rez, and up-rezing (or down-rezing). Depending on how many processes the set is doing and how fast the video processor is, you will get more or less delay. In the case of the Sammy line of DLP sets, for whatever reason, it takes a fraction of a second longer for video processing than say a Sony. BTW - I have no special affinity for Sony. In fact I prefer the DLP picture over that of most LCDs.

Knowing that the TV is the source of the delay, it makes sense that the video would be out of sync with audio sent a separate receiver.

As I see it, unless Samsung is able to speed-up the video processing in their sets, the only solutions to the lip sync issue (if you see it at all) would be to feed both audio and video to the set and forget about surround sound (not likely), or buy a receiver / prepro that has the ability to delay the audio to match the video (as some of the current models do). Alternatively, if Samsung had a digital audio pass through, you could run the AV feeds to the set and the audio out from the TV to a receiver. This is assuming that Samsung would sync up the AV in the set.

Thanks... Since I'm not a gamer, I keep forgetting that there are "video lag" issues and "lip sync" issues, though as you noted, they could very well share a causation factor(s).

I work for a large video game company and a couple of months ago I was assigned the task of researching HDTVs to be used for current and future video game development. One of the key things I looked for was video lag. The truth is that I found that ALL HDTVs exhibit video lag to some degree, and that it was always the worst when feeding the sets an SD signal. The lag was reduced when switching from composite video to component, and got a little better still when feeding the sets a progressive signal, but surprisingly there was still a small amount of lag when feeding them an HD signal (even when that signal was in the set's native resolution). In the end, I found that the Sony LCD RPTVs had the least amount of delay, the Samsung was second, and the Mitsubishi last. The lag was readily apparent on the Mits, but you had to know what you were looking for on the Sony. Keep in mind that the tests I did were on the previous generation of Samsung sets, but as I stated in a post a couple of notches up, I went to an AV shop last week to look for a new set of my own and they had a Sony "XS" series LCD RPTV next to a new Samsung "67" series. The Samsung video was still a hair behind the Sony. I couldn't tell if it was less than what I saw in the older sets, but it is still there. I think whether or not you see the problem depends both on how attuned you are to it and the signal you are feeding the set.

I checked out on the Mits 1080p thread, and the folks there say that there are absolutely no lip sync issues with Mits dlpl's, that it is primarily a Samsung problem. Is this generally accepted to be the case.

Millerwill -

Interesting that no one in the Mits DLP threads have complained about video delay. I had the video game system connected via composite and component (480i), and there was clearly a lag in the video on the set I tested. In the end, it is no sweat off my back, just passing along my experience.

Cheers.

I have a Samsung HLP5663W, and my issue is NOT a sync problem between the audio and video, but rather a signal (both audio and video) lag between this set and other analog sets in my home.
What I watch and listen to on all other sets in my home comes in 5 or 6 seconds BEFORE it comes over the DLP. Drives me CRAZY when we have the DLP and another tube set on at the same time!!
Has anyone heard of this issue? 6 seconds I'm talking!

Yes, this is standard for an SD and the HD broadcast from the same channel.

But it is not the TV's problem. The broadcast is coming in that way.

Like everybody here, I imagine, I am very anxiously awaiting to see if the new Sammyy 1080p sets ((xx68 abd xx78) have any lip sync problems. One would think that they should finally be able to get it right. (Over at the Mits thread, everybody swears that the present Mits dlp's have no hint of lip sync problems.)

I doubt Sammy will get it right since most indications are that the sync problem is outside the TV set. Mine comes from my DVD player which I can almost correct with the audio delay setting there. OTher sync issues are broadcast that way by the networks.

I am getting my new hlr4667w next week and was wondering what connections i should start with to minimize lip sync problems. We dont have the HD cable box yet so im not sure if the brand will make a difference. So far we have the cable box, tv, dvd player, and onkyo receiver. What are the best connections to each of these. Im new here and have read numerous posts on what does and does not work. Can someone please clear this up?!

Matt

I just got an HLR5067w 50" last week and love it so far. I don't have a surround sound system at all yet. I really don't want to have to deal with this issue when I get my audio gear. What do you guys think? Should I cut my losses and take it back to the store while I have the "30 days no questions asked" store return policy? I love the thing but I'm willing to move on to something else if I'm practically garenteed to have this lip synch issue.

I doubt Sammy will get it right since most indications are that the sync problem is outside the TV set. Mine comes from my DVD player which I can almost correct with the audio delay setting there. OTher sync issues are broadcast that way by the networks.

If the lip sync problem is all due to problems external to the tv, then why is it that Mits' owners report no lip sync problems? A Sammy partisan might wish to suggest that it is because the Mits sets have so many other problems that people haven't noticed the lip sync issue; but I wonder if this is really the case. I don't know what the truth is, but would like to.

Not to be mean... but maybe those Mits' owners are having trouble seeing the lips moving through all that glare. :D

If the lip sync problem is all due to problems external to the tv, then why is it that Mits' owners report no lip sync problems? A Sammy partisan might wish to suggest that it is because the Mits sets have so many other problems that people haven't noticed the lip sync issue; but I wonder if this is really the case. I don't know what the truth is, but would like to.

I think there are a number of possible explanations for the lip sync comments. Several of the people that initially reported lip sync comments, posted later comments that traced the sync problems to their cable/broadcast source or DVD player. In addition, some reported sync issues were due to equipment setup issues and incorrect testing procedures. I've carefully read each report and it is not clear to me if anyone has a sync problem that is definitely the TV's fault at this point. I would like to apologize in advance if I am way off base on this comment.

One issue that I think we should all be aware of is: when upgrading from a smaller (27" or so) set to a big screen it is easier to see flaws in broadcasts that were not really noticable on the smaller screen.

I would like to suggest that anyone that at this point in time definitely has a sync problem with the TV to repost their issue so we can take a close look at it. If you posted earlier and now believe that the sync issue is a broadcast, DVD player or DVR issue than please post saying that you have traced the problem to this source.

[NOTE: there were two OTA HD reception sync problems that I would especially like to hear about the final resolution.]

UCSB and others,
Can we standardize a "form" for submitting lip-sync errors? e.g. DVD player, cables, receiver, speakers, picture mode on TV, etc.?

If one spends a minute doing a search for "lip sync issues" it becomes quite clear that this is a general problem ranging from DVD players to broadcast HD. What becomes clear when looking at sites that mention this problem, is that it affects all types of TVs, STBs, cable systems and broadcasters. The other thing that seems to come into play more often than not is that it is a source material/way it is broadcast problem.

uiucsb, your idea seems like a good one. It would be good to get a clear picture of where and when the problem occurs.

Ok, here goes

TV: HLR5067w
DNR: off
Audio: direct to Yamaha5790 via digital (optical or coax), except where noted.

OTA - Antenna direct to Air2: severity of sync issue depends on specific material being broadcast and/or specific scenes. Ranges from not noticeble to one word worth of disconnect.

DishNetwork 811- Component1 via receiver: severity of sync issue depends on specific material being broadcast and/or specific scenes. Ranges from not noticeble to one word worth of disconnect.

cheap Sony DVD 480P - Component1 via receiver: severity of sync issue depends on specific material and/or specific scenes. Repeatable for that specific scene. Same scene on older 32" CRT does not show any sync problems. Ranges from not noticeble to one word worth of disconnect.

PS2 (early batch) - Component2 direct, audio direct then to receiver via TV: no noticeable sync or lag.

Personal conclusion: sync happens, but it is not fatal or lethal to the enjoyment of the set.
more frequently it is in the source (OTA or DishNetwork) and affects throughout the whole show (you can just change the channel to see the sync issue disappear)
infrequently, it seems to be related to the segment shown (as in specific scenes on DVD)

Personal suggestion: watch the movie, marvel at the clarity and size of it all, and stop looking for sync problems. Frustration is directly proportional to your decision to scrutinize the tv for flaws. Enjoyment is inversely proportional.

Edit: added more info about the equipment.

Here is my setup. I have had a HLR-6167w since 5/5/05.

I have a SA 8300 HD DVR connected to component 2. Digital audio is connected to my onkyo receiver. I have not see one case of lag or audio delay.

I have a Samsung HD-850 dvd player connected through HDMI. Digital audio is connected to my onkyo receiver. I have not see one case of lag or audio delay.

I have my Xbox connected to component 1. Digital audio is connected to my onkyo receiver. I have not see one case of lag or audio delay. My favorite game is madden 2005 and I can kick a field goal perfect everytime.

TIP: Access the service menu and change gamma from 2 to 0 it should help improve shadow detail.

I hope this helps.

I have a SA 8300 HD DVR connected to component 2. Digital audio is connected to my onkyo receiver. I have not see one case of lag or audio delay.

I have the same cable box so this makes me happy. Yeah of course it depends upon what the cable company is sending to the box. Are you using passthru on the SA 8300HD? Or are you having the box do some up conversion first?

My HL-R4667 is on the way! Is it worth buying the HDMI cable for the cable box to the tv? My DVD player doesnt have an HDMI connection. I dont know where I should use component and where to use digital (optical & coaxial).... please help.
I need the best connections for the cable box, tv, dvd player, and receiver...

i'd rank my 'most viewed' sources in order from high to low,
then allocate in order of HDMI, then component
:)

by all means, use the digital optical/coax to your receiver whenever possible on the audio side.

you can even connect one from the tv to your receiver so that you always have the tv internal muted.

i'd rank my 'most viewed' sources in order from high to low,
then allocate in order of HDMI, then component
:)

by all means, use the digital optical/coax to your receiver whenever possible on the audio side.

you can even connect one from the tv to your receiver so that you always have the tv internal muted.


We will never use the tv speakers so then what do you mean run a cable from the tv to receiver? Our current set-up is:

Cable box to Receiver- video component
Cable box to DVD- cable line
DVD player to Receiver- digital audio
DVD player to receiver- yellow componenet
Receiver to Monitor- component

I dont have my HLR4667 yet but what should I do here between the cable box, dvd player, and receiver? Should I be using S-video for any of these?

Thanks

If you are using cable card or the internal tuner, you might want to run sound from the TV to your receiver so that you could listen to these sources using your receiver. Otherwise you can only hear them through the TV speakers.

Here is my setup and when I have seen lip-sync:
TV: HLR5067W
-Internal mute on
-Digital NR off
-Size 16:9
Receiver: Yamaha AX-592 (it's a few yrs old technology)
-Connected to TV's audio out with standard red & white composite-type cables
-Connected to DVD player with MITermiator Composite cables
DVD: Pioneer DV-563A
-Connected to TV with Belden 7710A Component cables from Blue Jeans Cables
-Digital Audio Out: Off
-Linear PCM Out: Down sample on (I don't think this matters since digital out is off)
-16:9 video out
-Progressive out
-Audio Output Mode: 2 channel
-DTS Downmix: Stereo
-Channel level: Fix (vs. variable)
-Audio DRC: off
-Virtual Surround: off
-Speaker distance: 1 ft
Cable STB: SA 8300 HD DVR
-Connected via component to TV (video and audio)
-Can't get HDMI to work well. "Green screen of death" when switching resolution types
XBOX: originally wanted to use Monster Cable XGL400 CVAA-10 for component.
-i'm out of component inputs on TV, so I'm using composite

LIP-SYNC (LS):
Since I'm going thru TV with cable STB, no LS. haven't explored direct to receiver.
With DVD: "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?", LS seen. Especially certain scenes (Chap 5, starting at 21:30 into movie, in car ride. Clooney describes devil's appearance). Watching same disc with audio going thru TV and then to receiver, no noticeable LS. Watched disc on different DVD player on crappy 13" no-name CRT... no noticeable LS.
-Watched "The Ladykillers" with audio not going to TV. No LS detected.

seems to be somewhat source dependent. Although, it's interesting that LS was mitigated by going thru TV for "Oh Brother, WAT?".

Suggestions for more tests? A better setup?
I need help for the HDMI cable and my 8300 box!

Following up the last post:
I see Xbox game lag on the TV playing MVP Baseball 2004 (Pujols on cover) with both component and composite cables. Pitching is tough as well as hitting. It's not the same as it is on a CRT - even an HD CRT. If i remember correctly, i have 480i and 720p going out of my xbox. NCAA football 2004 was messed up until i enabled 480i.

COMMENTS? SUGGESTIONS? Thanks.

seems to be somewhat source dependent. Although, it's interesting that LS was mitigated by going thru TV for "Oh Brother, WAT?".

Suggestions for more tests? A better setup?
I need help for the HDMI cable and my 8300 box!


I'd run the audio thru the TV but then you lose DD 5.1? I really like the surround sound...

What help do you need on the HDMI cable? I just got a DVI-HDMI cable from RAM and it appears to be bad. All I get is static usually so I'm going to exchange it.

uiucsb ... Is DVD player set to 480i or 480p?

480p

RIght now, my housemate is providing speakers. We only have 2 channel front speakers. So... the surround sound issue isn't a problem for me.

My problem is the HDMI-HDMI connection with the cable box. When I change channels with different resolutions (pass-thru mode on STB) like from ESPN HD (720p) to DiscoveryHD (1080i), there is a big delay and sometimes a pure green screen appears. Sometimes I can't get out of the screen and have to reboot the TV, other times i can just change channels a lot. I haven't done a nice systematic study for the HDMI connection problems.

uiucsb, make sure your xbox is outputting 480p for mvp baseball 2004.

Robertw399,

Why 480p for MVP Baseball 2004? The back of the box says 720p.

My problem is the HDMI-HDMI connection with the cable box. When I change channels with different resolutions (pass-thru mode on STB) like from ESPN HD (720p) to DiscoveryHD (1080i), there is a big delay and sometimes a pure green screen appears. Sometimes I can't get out of the screen and have to reboot the TV, other times i can just change channels a lot. I haven't done a nice systematic study for the HDMI connection problems.

You cannot do pass-thru mode on the 8300HD box with HDMI. That option is disabled. You can do a variation of upconverting though which is what you are doing. Pass-thru mode is only selectable if you use component output.

Robertw399,

Why 480p for MVP Baseball 2004? The back of the box says 720p.

I can't say for certain, but I think that MVP Basball has problems when running in 720p, unrelated to the TV. I used that game extensively to test new HDTVs for the company I work for. The animation and frame-rate seemed to take a noticable hit in 720p.

I just got my R5067 a few days ago. Here's what I have connected:

Samsung HD850 DVD player via HDMI
Scientific Atlanta 8300HD via component (RGB) video and RCA audio
XBox via RCA
(Note: I have no home theatre / separate audio receiver right now)

No audio lag with the DVDs. They play flawlessly.

No audio lag with any cable stations or DVR'd content.

Some game lag with the XBox. In NFL2K5 the main game is very playable although the lag is just barely noticable. The only thing that suffers significantly is kicking: I went from kicking near 100% on every kick to something more like 80%.

I've heard some people talk about adjusting the output from 480i to 480p (or was it vice-versa?) on the XBox. I assume this is only doable if I pick up the XBox HD connections right? The only options I see under "VIDEO" in the dashboard currently is the screen aspect ratio. Thanks!

Sorry I was mistaken. 720p should be the setting you use but you must use component (hd pack) to avoid lag. My son tried it on mvp baseball 2005 on our hlr5667w and had no lag.

Wow, just noticed this thread (haven't been to the RPTV forum in a while).

So... Samsung was having lip sync problems on the HLM series. They are on 'R' now, and they still have them? Maybe we should start a pool for how far down the alphabet Samsung gets before these threads dry up.

I have an HLN, which reportedly has lip sync issues. On the rare occasions I've noticed a lip sync problem I've always been able to blame the source.

Either this issue is mass hysteria, or just a real tough, intermittent problem to solve.

Sooke

Either this issue is mass hysteria, or just a real tough, intermittent problem to solve.
Could be both... Which makes it all the more difficult to isolate and solve.

Sorry I was mistaken. 720p should be the setting you use but you must use component (hd pack) to avoid lag. My son tried it on mvp baseball 2005 on our hlr5667w and had no lag.

Thanks. I'm going to pick up the HD pack today and give it a try!

As for the game thing, they should have lag at 480i. It's not terribly noticeable until you start playing the above mentioned sports games and such. My test is Hot Shots Golf 3/4 for PS2, DDR, and recently added Frequency to the list. I can't play them on my HLP at all.

Cush

As for the game thing, they should have lag at 480i. It's not terribly noticeable until you start playing the above mentioned sports games and such. My test is Hot Shots Golf 3/4 for PS2, DDR, and recently added Frequency to the list. I can't play them on my HLP at all.

Cush

I have the R5067W and picked up the component video adapter for the XBOX. I still had screen lag running at 720p playing NFL 2K5. Then I switched it to 480p (which is the "support high def mode" according to the back of the box) and the lag seems to have completely disappeared! I'm not sure if it gets fixed according to what resolution the game supports or if 480p is just generally the way to go, but hopefully that helps someone.

perhaps that means that it is the XBOX itself that was lagging on 720P and everyone with an XBOX should switch down to 480p.

ok, just got an HLR5087:

xbox hooked up to tv through component cables, audio going to the reciever with optical

no audio lag in games. This pretty much tells me that this has to be signal related for those who are having problems. I didn't even mess with the tv's internal speakers i left them alone

ps2 hooked up through reciever for component and optical, no audio lag in 480p games.. havent really payed attention to 480i, but im pretty sure there would be a bit for that mode because of the video lag on it

dvd player i havent tested yet, but its going through the reciever as well, component and digital coax for audio

I didn't test cable because i dont even have this tv hooked up to cable, its exclusivly for games and occasionally dvds

You cannot do pass-thru mode on the 8300HD box with HDMI. That option is disabled. You can do a variation of upconverting though which is what you are doing. Pass-thru mode is only selectable if you use component output.

You can do Auto HDMI/DVI which is the same as pass through.

You can do Auto HDMI/DVI which is the same as pass through.

From what I understood it only sends across untouched the resolutions that you setup in the setup thing. Otherwise it upconverts them. I may have read it wrong though.

Anyone use there home theater system for listening to all audio- tv, dvd, etc.???? I currently have my audio going from my cable-box to my dvd player to receiver via component with no lag. When I get my HD box on Friday should I by-pass my home theater on regualar tv?
Connections as of Friday-
Cable Box to TV Video- HDMI
Cable Box to TVAudio- Optical
DVD Video to receiver- Component
DVD Audio to receiver- Optical

Am I doing something wrong here or is it preference of home theater for all or not?

Matt

Anyone use there home theater system for listening to all audio- tv, dvd, etc.???? I currently have my audio going from my cable-box to my dvd player to receiver via component with no lag. When I get my HD box on Friday should I by-pass my home theater on regualar tv?
Connections as of Friday-
Cable Box to TV Video- HDMI
Cable Box to TVAudio- Optical
DVD Video to receiver- Component
DVD Audio to receiver- Optical

Am I doing something wrong here or is it preference of home theater for all or not?

Matt

Do you have some typos in your post? You currently have your audio going –into- your DVD player? Via component? Do you mean DVD recorder with the video going via component and the audio via L/R RCA jacks? Not sure how you're getting audio into your receiver right now since DVD players don't normally have inputs.

And as for your potential setup on Friday, if you go HDMI from cable box to TV, it would have both audio and video on it I would assume. Then your line that says Cable Box to TVAudio- Optical should read TV Audio to receiver- Optical. The HLRxx67 series TVs don't have optical audio input, only an optical audio output. And I think you’re missing how the (DVD) video signals get from the receiver to the TV. Via component, I assume.

The downside to your proposed scheme (I think) is that you’ll lose out on Dolby 5.1 Surround sound since your cable box will send only 2 channel to the TV over HDMI. That sucks but that’s the way it is with HDMI. If you want surround I think you have to send cable box audio output via optical straight to the receiver and put up with whatever audio lag you get.

It’s not uncommon to want to use the home theater for all A/V sound. The only complications here are the HDMI connection and lip synch concerns.

Jon

Jon

Thanks for that info. You can tell i'm a little new at this. Whats the point of running an HDMI cable from the cable box as well as a coaxial cable? Dont they serve the same purpose? Its tough because I dont have my HD box yet, but I bought the anticipated cables I need. Can I also have the option of running TV sound through it's speakers, and also the home theater, but at obviously different times.

Thanks for the help
Matt

Jon

Thanks for that info. You can tell i'm a little new at this. Whats the point of running an HDMI cable from the cable box as well as a coaxial cable? Dont they serve the same purpose? Its tough because I dont have my HD box yet, but I bought the anticipated cables I need. Can I also have the option of running TV sound through it's speakers, and also the home theater, but at obviously different times.

Thanks for the help
Matt

Matt,

You would not need to run both an HDMI cable and coax from the cable box to the TV. The HDMI would have it all and is a superior method of transferring the audio and video because the signals are 100% digital. If you use coax the cable box has to decode the digital signal and construct an RF signal which is sent via coax. Then the TV has to receive the RF signal and reconstruct the digital signal.

The downside of HDMI is that the send and receive components (and anything in between) communicate before sending data and since the TV has only simple stereo capability that's all the cable box will send via HDMI even if your intent is to pipe the sound to your surround sound receiver. It will work in stereo if that's all you need for now. It's a nice clean interconnection setup because all you need is the HDMI cable between the cable box and your TV and an optical audio cable between your TV and your receiver. Your DVD player would have component video cables going to the TV and optical audio going to the receiver. Or you could send the video through the receiver via component if you want to use its video switcher. Or HDMI if your receiver and DVD player have HDMI (not likely).

You probably do not want to operate the TV speakers and the receiver speakers at the same time. You'll most likely get an echo caused by the audio/video lag in the TV. I can mentally tune out lip synch by not focusing on it but echoes are far more distracting to me.

Jon

Getting my HLR5667W tomorrow and will be testing out the following configurations:

SA8300HD video to TV via HDMI-DVI cable
SA8300HD audio to Onkyo receiver via optical cable
PS2 video to Onkyo receiver via component
PS2 audio to Onkyo reciever via optical
Xbox video to Onkyo receiver via component
Xbox audio to Onkyo reciever via optical
Onkyo receiver video to TV via component

I've read that the SA8300HD uses the TV's native resolution in HDMI/DVI mode, so hopefully the up/down-converting will be minimized. I'll be running the Xbox and PS2 in various video modes. I understand also that running a HDMI->DVI cable to the TV set will avoid the problem of limiting the 8300HD DVR to 2-channel output, since the TV can't "tell" the DVR anything about its audio configuration. We'll see...

Welcome aboard...


I've read that the SA8300HD uses the TV's native resolution in HDMI/DVI mode, so hopefully the up/down-converting will be minimized. - Not sure what you mean by this. Is your point that the SA8300HD will up/down convert and/or deinterlace all incoming signals to 720p (the native display resolution) before passing it along to the display? If so, then, yes, this will "minimize" the video processing done by the TV. However, this might not be a good thing. You should check both the STB and the TV to see which does the best job of video processing. If the display does the best job, then you'd probably want to set the STB (if possible) to just pass along any signal it gets without any processing and let the display handle it all. But you should also realize that just because the TV might be a better processor at one resolution, it is not necessarily the best at all resolutions. So, again, some testing might be needed to optimize your situation. (OTOH, I'd bet money that the TV would be the better video processor.)


I understand also that running a HDMI->DVI cable to the TV set will avoid the problem of limiting the 8300HD DVR to 2-channel output, since the TV can't "tell" the DVR anything about its audio configuration.
I could be wrong, but I thought that the DVI protocol did not pass audio. Thus the use of the HDMI -> DVI essential knocks out the audio to the TV among other things. However, since you are running an optical cable from your STB to your receiver and assuming you will driving your external speakers from the receiver, you'll have 5.1 capability and communication between the STB and TV about audio capability of the TV is irrelevant.

Welcome aboard...

Actually been lurking here for about a year before making the purchase :)

I could be wrong, but I thought that the DVI protocol did not pass audio. Thus the use of the HDMI -> DVI essential knocks out the audio to the TV among other things. However, since you are running an optical cable from your STB to your receiver and assuming you will driving your external speakers from the receiver, you'll have 5.1 capability and communication between the STB and TV about audio capability of the TV is irrelevant.
That's what I meant by my previous comment - another poster stated that running DVI to the TV as opposed to HDMI will prevent any audio "handshaking" between the two devices. Since the STB doesn't know the TV can't handle 5.1, it won't fall back to a 2-channel compatibility mode. This is a problem with the SA8300HD specifically, can't say if any similar devices have this feature as well. I've read also that the 8300HD can be forced to output in 5.1 despite the HDMI connection, so I'll try to verify that too. Here is the specific line:

Audio Out Using HDMI Connection. An HDMI>HDMI or HDMI>DVI connection will automatically select 2 channel stereo if your TV does not support Dolby Digital (DD). In order to restore DD audio out to your receiver, you need to change the automatic setting. Press the Settings button twice and scroll to Audio: Digital Out. Change the setting from HDMI to Dolby Digital. This will force DD audio to the HDMI, as well as the digital/optical audio outs.

This will force DD audio to the HDMI, as well as the digital/optical audio outs.[/i]
Ah Ha! That's the point I missed... The STB limited the output on the optical out to the receiver if the HDMI or HDMI-DVI auto-selected stereo out to the TV. I'd assumed they were independent. Learn something every day...

Anyone find any Picture Settings that really capture the TV's purpose?

TV - HL-R4667
DVD - DVD-S77
Receiver - Sony STR-DE845
DirecTV/UltimateTV Satellite Receiver

I have lip sync issues with the following config:

DVD --> TV using HDMI
DVD --> Receiver using optical audio

The Panny DVD-S77 has a video delay feature that allows up to 100ms delay and that fixes the problem perfectly. I'm extremely glad it has that feature, otherwise it would definately be unwatchable and it would be heading back to Sears for a refund

I DO NOT have lip sync issues(that I've noticed to far) with the following config:
SD TV
DirecTv/UTV --> TV using S-video
DirecTv/UTV --> Receiver using composite audio

HDTV
I dont have it yet

I've only had the TV for a few days, but is what I've noticed so far. I'm holding my breath for when I buy the DirecTV/HDTivo unit and get actual HDTV content. I'll be pretty bent if I have to drop 800 some odd bones on a receiver that handles audio delay.

Got the set this morning. Here are the results:

SA8300HD video (pass-through mode) to TV via component, SA8300HD audio to Onkyo receiver via optical cable, SA8300HD audio to TV via RCA cables: This configuration produces a noticeable 1/10s echo between the receiver and the TV. With internal mute on, this mode is entirely watchable and the delay is difficult to detect. There is no appreciable difference between SD and HD channels.

PS2 video to Onkyo receiver via component, PS2 audio to Onkyo reciever via optical: No noticeable lag in this configuration.

Xbox video to Onkyo receiver via component, Xbox audio to Onkyo reciever via optical: No noticeable lag in this configuration. Controls and video are in sync, games are as playable as my old 32" CRT.

SA8300HD video to TV via HDMI, SA8300HD audio to Onkyo receiver via optical cable, SA8300HD audio to TV via RCA cables: Waiting for my new HDMI cable to test this configuration.

I'm completely satisfied with the HL-R5667W - Cox HD channels look great, the PIP using multiple component/HD sources is a huge advantage over other sets, and it appears the "lip sync" issue has been blown out of proportion.

SA8300HD video to TV via HDMI, SA8300HD audio to Onkyo receiver via optical cable, SA8300HD audio to TV via RCA cables: Waiting for my new HDMI cable to test this configuration.

I'm completely satisfied with the HL-R5667W - Cox HD channels look great, the PIP using multiple component/HD sources is a huge advantage over other sets, and it appears the "lip sync" issue has been blown out of proportion.[/QUOTE]


I have the exact same configuration with Onkyo receiver, cable box, and TV. Like you said, I see no lag at all. Very Happy! I can't wait for more HD channels though.

One of the best tests I've seen for lip sync issues is the Digital Video Essentials color sweep pattern. A colored circle is filled in each second with an audible beep at completion. You can gauge the lag (if any) between the filled circle and the audio, and compare between different video/audio processors. With the DVD video connected to Component 1 and DVD audio connected via optical to my Onkyo receiver, I couldn't detect any lag.

I have a HLR5067 and get virtually no lip synch problems except when using my VCRs. Then the lip synch ranges from virtually none to horrible (off by one whole word). Audio and video goes through an AV receiver, then to TV AV1 port via composite. Ideally (for minimizing lip synch problems) I would send audio and video straight to TV, then audio from TV to receiver. This defeats the purpose of having an AV receiver so I will probably leave it as is since I don't use the VCRs much anymore.

Jon

I've read all the articles I could find on the A/V sync issue with Samsung DLP, as I'm a new owner of the HL-R6167W. I could give you details on my configuration, but that wasn't the problem (wait for it). First the background...

All components are connected first to the TV, and then the audio out is fed (via analog) to my surround stereo. My DirectTV/Tivo (via HDMI) and DVD (via Component) both worked without problems. After connecting my new S-VCR replacement (via S-Video), I was saddened to find the dreaded lip sync issue. I tried everything I could think of, but it wouldn't go away. (I'll spare you those details.) I gave up, and decided to try again after talking with Samsung tech support (see below).

Today I got a DirectTV channel, a DVD, and a video tape all going at once. Then I started switching sources to see if any were out of sync. When I started with the VCR I was surprised to find no sync problems! Before I start admitting I'm crazy, I tried to cause the sync problem. First I verified the DVD and DirectTV worked and then returned to the VCR. Whoa! This time it was out of sync.

DISCOVERY: Quickly switching the source from DVD to DirectTV to TV (why can't this be disabled?) and then to VCR caused the A/V to lose sync. After verifying this a few more times, I found I can cause it to lose sync or regain sync depending on how I use the source button on the remote. To cause it to lose sync, I quickly went from DVD all the way through to VCR (a complete round trip). Doing this without stopping caused the VCR source to be out of sync.

SOLUTION: When switching sources, stop at each source and wait for the info display to "blink" off and back on. At the top left of the screen, the source's name is displayed (i.e. STB, DVD, TV, VCR). When a source is switched in, this info display will flash off and then immediately back on all within fraction of a second. (I'm guessing it flashes back on when it regains resync.)


If I switch sources by stopping and waiting for the display, I can get the VCR source to be in sync. If I switch sources quickly, so fast the source doesn't get displayed, then the VCR will be wildly out of sync. In fact I can switch through three sources so fast that I can go from DVD to TV to STB to VCR without even seeing any of the skipped sources being displayed. When this happens, the sync is random.

By the way...

At one point I called Samsung support, and navigated through their phone menu system. I got dumped into the appliance/refrigerator department. The gal who answered tried to help at first, but insisted it was my VCR causing the delay ("sir, since it's only the VCR having the problems then it's not the Samsung TV"). She wasn't aware of any A/V sync issues. I then insisted on speaking with someone that specialized on this TV. The second tier person didn't seem to be aware of A/V sync problems. I told them it seems to be commonly known by customers on the web, and mentioned their own FAQ database has two entries regarding this problem.

Their web site doesn't provide direct URLs to the FAQs, but you can search under TV/DLP TV and enter the question simply as "synch". This should pull up two articles, one is entitled, "The Sound On My TV Is Not In Synch With The Picture". Their advice it to have a service tech "adjust the sound synch function on the TV".

I've read all the articles I could find on the A/V sync issue with Samsung DLP, as I'm a new owner of the HL-R6167W. I could give you details on my configuration, but that wasn't the problem (wait for it). First the background...

All components are connected first to the TV, and then the audio out is fed (via analog) to my surround stereo. My DirectTV/Tivo (via HDMI) and DVD (via Component) both worked without problems. After connecting my new S-VCR replacement (via S-Video), I was saddened to find the dreaded lip sync issue. I tried everything I could think of, but it wouldn't go away. (I'll spare you those details.) I gave up, and decided to try again after talking with Samsung tech support (see below).

Today I got a DirectTV channel, a DVD, and a video tape all going at once. Then I started switching sources to see if any were out of sync. When I started with the VCR I was surprised to find no sync problems! Before I start admitting I'm crazy, I tried to cause the sync problem. First I verified the DVD and DirectTV worked and then returned to the VCR. Whoa! This time it was out of sync.

DISCOVERY: Quickly switching the source from DVD to DirectTV to TV (why can't this be disabled?) and then to VCR caused the A/V to lose sync. After verifying this a few more times, I found I can cause it to lose sync or regain sync depending on how I use the source button on the remote. To cause it to lose sync, I quickly went from DVD all the way through to VCR (a complete round trip). Doing this without stopping caused the VCR source to be out of sync.

SOLUTION: When switching sources, stop at each source and wait for the info display to "blink" off and back on. At the top left of the screen, the source's name is displayed (i.e. STB, DVD, TV, VCR). When a source is switched in, this info display will flash off and then immediately back on all within fraction of a second. (I'm guessing it flashes back on when it regains resync.)


If I switch sources by stopping and waiting for the display, I can get the VCR source to be in sync. If I switch sources quickly, so fast the source doesn't get displayed, then the VCR will be wildly out of sync. In fact I can switch through three sources so fast that I can go from DVD to TV to STB to VCR without even seeing any of the skipped sources being displayed. When this happens, the sync is random.

By the way...

At one point I called Samsung support, and navigated through their phone menu system. I got dumped into the appliance/refrigerator department. The gal who answered tried to help at first, but insisted it was my VCR causing the delay ("sir, since it's only the VCR having the problems then it's not the Samsung TV"). She wasn't aware of any A/V sync issues. I then insisted on speaking with someone that specialized on this TV. The second tier person didn't seem to be aware of A/V sync problems. I told them it seems to be commonly known by customers on the web, and mentioned their own FAQ database has two entries regarding this problem.

Their web site doesn't provide direct URLs to the FAQs, but you can search under TV/DLP TV and enter the question simply as "synch". This should pull up two articles, one is entitled, "The Sound On My TV Is Not In Synch With The Picture". Their advice it to have a service tech "adjust the sound synch function on the TV".

Very interesting ... thanks for the info!

I've read all the articles I could find on the A/V sync issue with Samsung DLP, as I'm a new owner of the HL-R6167W. I could give you details on my configuration, but that wasn't the problem (wait for it). First the background...

Absolutely fascinating... I'm amazed with people like you who can identify these not so obvious action/effect (intentionally avoided cause & effect) relationships.

Slightly off topic, but can you (or anyone) test impact of speed of input switching on game controller lag.

Why don't you use the digital outputs into your receiver? Why use only analog stereo?

Will someone please clarify the following situation for me: I thought that one could not get 5.1 Dolby surround if one ran the audio from the source (stb or dvd player) to the TV and from there to the AV receiver (because the tv can only output stereo, ie 2-channel, audio). I thought that the only way to get 5.1 Dolby was to send the audio (via toslink or coax) directly from the source to the AVR, by-passing the tv entirely. (This is what I now do with my hlp6163).

millerwill just posted the following on main Samsung thread:

Don't mean to quash discussion, but you all need to remember that one of the "What we DON'T KNOW so far" items in post #1 is:

6. Will 1080p sets support multichannel audio (5.1) on the HDMI inputs? 720p sets only support 2 channels and this prevents a multichannel pass through to a receiver. This is important to manage sync in some situations.

I have a lot of hope that the answer to the question above is yes, but we still don't know yet. What we do know is that 5.1 from over the air broadcast can be output through the optical out. Other audio is not certain.

Absolutely fascinating... I'm amazed with people like you who can identify these not so obvious action/effect (intentionally avoided cause & effect) relationships.

:D Thanks. It's part creativity and part logic. It came in handy as a software engineer, and a wanna be scientist. Too bad schools don't teach this type of thinking skills.

Slightly off topic, but can you (or anyone) test impact of speed of input switching on game controller lag.

After doing my experiments, I'm convinced this will solve sync issues with a game console. Yet, I cannot explain why I could not cause the DVD to lose sync. My DirectTV feed is via HDMI and I'm assuming since that's all digital things are different for the TV. But I also could not cause DVD to lose synch. The only input I had problems with the the AV1 inputs, which were all analog (namely S-Video/RCA Audio).

Note the Samsung DLP does have internal service adjustments to compensate for the A/V synch. When you buy a Samsung DLP, you get on-site service as part of the warranty. So, if anyone does have this lip synch problem they should schedule a service. Just try switching the source "properly" before making that call.

Jim

My config has my TiVo (Standalone) connected to the avr (audio and video) and then video from the avr to the TV. I've just replaced my Sony XBR with the Samsung 5078 and there is very apparent lipsync issues.

I'm probably going to try running the audio to the tv first and then to the amp to see if its better, but right now, the TiVo is pretty unwatchable.

I couldn't conclusively see any lipsync issues with my DVD connected via 480p component. Nor did I see a PS-2 lag via 480i component.

Hey All,

I just got the Samsung HLR4667W about 2 weeks ago. I have a Motorola Moxi PVR and a Sony DA3es receiver. The video is running component through the receiver to tv and the audio is optical cable through the receiver to the TV.

I have got lip sync issues that occur at times on ALL channels and last night it happened during an HD broadcast. It ranges from barely noticeable to the audio being 2-3 syllables ahead of the video. I don't think my problem has to do with switching sources because it happens when I haven't switches sources at all.

I've only watched 2 DVDs since I got the TV, but I didn't notice any lip sync problems on those.

Anybody got any suggestions? I really don't want to look for another TV, the video quality on this TV is incredible! For a second the other night I thought Jay Leno was actually IN my living room! ;)

Thanks!
Julie

I have a Samsung HLP5663W, and my issue is NOT a sync problem between the audio and video, but rather a signal (both audio and video) lag between this set and other analog sets in my home.
What I watch and listen to on all other sets in my home comes in 5 or 6 seconds BEFORE it comes over the DLP. Drives me CRAZY when we have the DLP and another tube set on at the same time!!
Has anyone heard of this issue? 6 seconds I'm talking!


I am still awaiting my 5668, however, I get the same lag you are speaking of between my crt sets. Don't believe it has anything to do with DLP. Seems to just be a delay due to cable routing. Creates a terrible echo when sets in ajacent rooms are on same channels.

I am still awaiting my 5668, however, I get the same lag you are speaking of between my crt sets. Don't believe it has anything to do with DLP. Seems to just be a delay due to cable routing. Creates a terrible echo when sets in ajacent rooms are on same channels.

I think DaveWM's post was an old one. He was probably watching the HDTV version on his DLP and the SD version on his CRT sets. The two broadcasts are often several seconds apart. Not a fault of the TV at all.

I've not heard of delays/echoes with CRT sets. Cable routing shouldn't be a factor since the speed of transmission is so high. I suspect if you haven't got a Samsung DLP yet, you have no idea how terrible the echo can be. Give a report when your 5668 shows up.

Jon

Hey All,

I just got the Samsung HLR4667W about 2 weeks ago. I have a Motorola Moxi PVR and a Sony DA3es receiver. The video is running component through the receiver to tv and the audio is optical cable through the receiver to the TV.
Julie


Julie,

How do you have your audio routed? The HLR sets don't have optical inputs. Only optical outputs. Do you have digital optical audio going straight from the PVR to the Sony receiver and not into the TV at all, or audio going to the TV via 2 channel RCA jacks?

Jon

Hi Jon,

The audio is optical from the PVR to the receiver. I don't know why I put it was going back to the TV, just was thinking straight I guess. It's been one of those days...

Julie

Okay, that makes sense. Video and audio from PVR to receiver. Receiver plays the sound. Receiver sends video to TV. This is the most logical way to connect your components. Unfortunately you are subject to lip synch issues because the video gets delayed by the TV's processing. It'll get more delay the worse the signal because it has to do more processing.

One thing to check is the output resolution of your PVR. I think it should be set for 720p so the TV has the least amount of processing to do as possible. You can set it in the "video output" settings. If it's set for 480i the TV has to scale it to 720p. This is part of where the lag comes from.

If you can't get rid of the audio lag, the only other thing you can do is send the audio through the TV. It will delay the audio along with the video. Unfortunately your'e stuck with two channel audio if you go that route. This is one of the things that sucks with Samsung DLPs.

Jon

If you can't get rid of the audio lag, the only other thing you can do is send the audio through the TV. It will delay the audio along with the video. Unfortunately your'e stuck with two channel audio if you go that route. This is one of the things that sucks with Samsung DLPs.

Its not just samsung DLP's. Its the same with any tv that has HDMI.

cable box to TV through HDMI, audio from TV to receiver through optical out - no lip sync issue, but no DD 5.1 either.


What if I used a CableCard with the audio from TV to receiver via optical. Is it DD 5.1?

Its not just samsung DLP's. Its the same with any tv that has HDMI.

I meant the audio lag part. HDMI that sent/accepted 5.1 would get partially get around that. Another way would be if they had an optical in as well as an optical out. Still doesn't help the gamers though.

Jon

What if I used a CableCard with the audio from TV to receiver via optical. Is it DD 5.1?

Yes, if the broadcast is sent out as 5.1. And you only need the cablecard if you want to receive scrambled signals like HBO, etc.

Jon

I am new to this forum and came across it while researching my next tv purchase. I have decided to get the Samsung hlr4667. I already have surround sound setup with an a/v receiver. I was wondering if this type of connection will produce any lip sync problems:

From HD Cable Box to TV; DVI
From HD Cable Box to a/v receiver; Optical
From DVD Player to TV; HDMI
From DVD player to a/v receiver; Digital Coax

With this set-up all of the audio is going through the receiver and all of the video is being sent to the tv. Does anyone foresee this set-up causing any problems?

Thanks for your help.

bruins: many of us are waiting for the answer to your questions. I guess that we will have to wait a few more days for those that have the new TVs to test them and then report the results.

I'm waiting to order a 6168 until I know what is going on. If there isn't a "reasonable" solution, lip sync may be a show stopper for me.

I am new to this forum and came across it while researching my next tv purchase. I have decided to get the Samsung hlr4667. I already have surround sound setup with an a/v receiver. I was wondering if this type of connection will produce any lip sync problems:

From HD Cable Box to TV; DVI
From HD Cable Box to a/v receiver; Optical
From DVD Player to TV; HDMI
From DVD player to a/v receiver; Digital Coax



Mike,

I believe the 4667 has only one HDMI/DVI input. Either your STB or DVD player will have to go over component. This is one of the reasons people are buying the 1080p models. Two HDMI inputs.

Either way, the setup you describe would be prone to lip sync problems. Some people report lip sync problems, some don't. If your two devices can upscale to 720p there may be no trouble. I have a 480i DVD player and sometimes get lip sync problems. Usually not bad enough to notice but sometimes quite bad. Maybe someone with an HLRXX67 and upscaling DVD player can comment.

Jon

Ok, here's a little more info on my setup.

I have yet to receive my stb, but it will either be the motorola DCT 5100 or DCT 6200 from Comcast.

I will be using the Samsung (upscaling) dvdhd850.

So these are my updated connections. (Thanks Jon, I wasn't aware that the 4667 only has 1 HDMI input.)

From STB to TV; Component
From STB to a/v receiver; Optical
From DVD Player to TV; HDMI
From DVD player to a/v receiver; Digital Coax

After looking at my receiver's manual it looks as if I can delay the audio from 1-160 msec.

Can anyone comment if they think this setup will have sync problems?

Thanks again.
-Mike

One thing to check is the output resolution of your PVR. I think it should be set for 720p so the TV has the least amount of processing to do as possible. You can set it in the "video output" settings. If it's set for 480i the TV has to scale it to 720p. This is part of where the lag comes from.

Jon


Hi Jon,

I checked the setting on my cable box, and it was set to output in 480i, 720p and 1080i. I set it to only output in 720p only, and it seems to have solved the lip sync problem :D Or at least I haven't noticed one in the past couple days.

I guess having the cable box set to output all 3, it was just passing the signal to the TV and the TV was having to do the conversion. And changing the setting on the box, causes the box do the conversion before sending it to the TV.

Thanks for your help!

Julie

../
SOLUTION: When switching sources, stop at each source and wait for the info display to "blink" off and back on. At the top left of the screen, the source's name is displayed (i.e. STB, DVD, TV, VCR). When a source is switched in, this info display will flash off and then immediately back on all within fraction of a second. (I'm guessing it flashes back on when it regains resync.)


If I switch sources by stopping and waiting for the display, I can get the VCR source to be in sync. If I switch sources quickly, so fast the source doesn't get displayed, then the VCR will be wildly out of sync. In fact I can switch through three sources so fast that I can go from DVD to TV to STB to VCR without even seeing any of the skipped sources being displayed. When this happens, the sync is random.


Thanks! This 'fix' worked for the internal speakers being out of synch on my unit. It's an HLR4667w. I didn't believe you when I read your post, but I'm happy to report that it worked.

My problem was on my Component 1 input from my Cable box btw. Both HD and SD channels, though the cable box was outputting both at 1080i.

Billy

How about this: rather than go sequentially through the inputs, waiting for each one to "sync", what if you choose the desired input directly from the pick list in the Input section on the main menu? Does that help at all?

Yes

I verified this using the DirectTV, DVD, and VCR sources. In my case, only the VCR connected to AV1 had problems when cycling through the sources (e.g. pressing the sources button from DVD, STB, TV, to VCR)

Going directly to the input through the menu works without any sync problems.

Go over to the 'Samsung 1080p Owners Thread' if you haven't seen it recently. Vandu pointed out a product, the 'Felston DD540 Digital Audio Delay', that for a bit over $200 seems to totally eliminate any lip sync issues. One can send the video (from stb and dvd) to the tv via HDMI, and the audio from these sources through the DD540 to the AVR via digital cables. It would be as simple as adjusting the volume to dial in perfect audio-video sync with any program, cable tv or dvd. If your AVR has this feature, of course, then you don't need this item, but for those of us whose AVR's don't have it, it sounds like a very simple solution (albeit for some extra cost).

This my first post, I've been reading this forum for a couple weeks now and you guys are scaring me. I just ordered the HL-R5668. I am a home theater guy. All this lip sync talk has just about scared me into canceling my order. I'm set up right now without HD. But about to convert. I have everything (Satellite box, VCR, CD, XM ) to my Yamaha 2500. DVD has audio to Yammy (optical) and video goes straight to TV. If I use this same set up do you think I will have the dreaded LIP SYNC. I hope this is enough information. :cool:

Does anyone know if the Panasonic SA-XR70S or XR55 have an audio delay feature that's configurable per input?

This thread is makes me want to run for the hills as I was planning to purchase my first HDTV, an hl-r5078w and do STB video component to HLR and stb optical out to avr. This thread makes it sound like you get audio delay no matter what you do.

I would rather have a Samsung DLP, but maybe I should go get a plasma - and deal with burn in issues.

So cooold.

:confused:

Does anyone know if the Panasonic SA-XR70S or XR55 have an audio delay feature that's configurable per input?

The Panasonic receivers do not have the audio delay feature. Some models from Denon and H/K have audio delay that is configurable by input. Some Yamahas have audio delay that is global to all inputs, I believe.

This my first post, I've been reading this forum for a couple weeks now and you guys are scaring me. I just ordered the HL-R5668. I am a home theater guy. All this lip sync talk has just about scared me into canceling my order. I'm set up right now without HD. But about to convert. I have everything (Satellite box, VCR, CD, XM ) to my Yamaha 2500. DVD has audio to Yammy (optical) and video goes straight to TV. If I use this same set up do you think I will have the dreaded LIP SYNC. I hope this is enough information. :cool:


Don't worry, your Yamaha reciever has an audio delay setting (up to 240ms). You will probably experience some lip sync issues but should be able to correct whatever you see.

I have the following setup:
HLR-5067
Yamaha RX-V1500 reciever to TV via component
Yamaha DVD-C950 to reciever via component & optical (with extra 5.1 analog out for SACD)
Motorolla/Comcast HD DVR to reciever via component & optical
Polk audio speaker system: 2 RTi10's front, 2 FXi5's surr, 1 CSi5 center, 1 PSW404 sub

Delays:
133ms with DCDi and PSCAN turned off on the DVD player, video conversion off on the receiver, DNR off on the TV. With this setup, audio input from both the cable box and DVD player are perfect. I've experienced no difference between HD and SD programming. Turning off the upconversion on the Yamaha isn't an issue since the HLR automatically up/down-converts everything to 720p anyway. The only problem is that I've spent a fortune on a prog-scan DVD player with DCDi. (D'oh!)

143ms with DCDi on, PSCAN off on DVD player. This will produce a barely noticeable shift in TV viewing though. (Yes, I'm obsessive/compulsive. Just ask the wife.)

Haven't tried with both DCDi and PSCAN on, but would expect to see another increase in lag of about 10ms.


Don't let the lag issue keep you from enjoying your system if you've got the equipment to correct it. Just sit down with a couple beers and spend some QT with your new toys. That's half the fun anyway, right?

Lip sync correction can get very subjective once you're in a 5ms delay range. Is there a product out there (Avia?) that will help you to correct the problem? I've been through several movie scenes and have sorted through a ton of TV programs. I think that I've got it dialed in but would really like to know for sure.

Something that shows a dialogue at 1/2 speed with an audio meter display would be perfect. Any suggestions?

I have a Denon AVR 3300. It as something called "Delay" which has adjustments in feet or meters for all the speakers. Is this similar or the same as an audio delay feature that would prevent lip sync.?

I have a Denon AVR 3300. It as something called "Delay" which has adjustments in feet or meters for all the speakers. Is this similar or the same as an audio delay feature that would prevent lip sync.?
No. This feature is to adjust your audio system to get the intended surrround sound effects and adjust for different room layouts at specifc listening positions.

I have the HLR5067. I have an HD Direct TV/Tivo connected to the TV through the HDMI cable. The audio is going to my Sony receiver through the optical connection. I see the video lag occasionally. Some programs are worse than others. If I got a new receiver that could delay the audio, wouldn't that put the audio behind the video on the programs where there was no lip sync issue? Would I have to continuously change the audio delay settings?

I have been gone a week so even though I got my HLR5668W a week ago, I was not able to get everything connected until late last night. I have run a number of tests on the audio lag issue and here is what I have found so far.

First my setup:

TV-HLR5668W - Audio out to AVR via Toslink
AVR Denon AVP8000 and PAO8200 & 8300 Amps
Sony AVPS7000 (only capable of 480i over component - now used as a CD player, audio via digital coax)
SS HD DVD950 via HDMI and audio to AVR via Digital Coax)
Sony PS2 via Component and analog audio to TV plus Toslink to AVR
I have no Cable or Sat STB's nor AVR's

TV Lag:

If I have a analog TV in the other room and the 68W set on the same analog OTA station, I will get an echo (like what you would get by setting your AVR to Stadium mode) between the two sets. I cannot detect any lip sync issues so I would guess that the whole picture/sound is just delayed by the digital conversion vs whats going on in the analog set.

If I switch to the same OTA channel but in digital, the difference between the 2 sets is more like 2 seconds. I attribute this all to the source because the broadcaster has to digitize the program. (We are talking about live TV here)

Note so far I have never received a 5.1 signal but I have only watched for a few hours.

PS2:
The only audio lag we see here is the same (.1 sec?) echo lag between the analog audio in to the TV via the component cables and the Toslink directly to the AVR. If I use the audio out from the TV to the AVR there is no echo but I would guess that the audio is probably 100ms or so off the PS2, but in sync with the video.

The slight delay does not seem to visually appear and since nobody in my house is a serious gamer we cannot detect the less than 100 ms delays effects on game play. If there is one we are compensating for it or are not talented enough to have it affect our play. Other variables (skill) outweighing any audio/video/game player lag. (note input device is set to DVD and not GAME mode as GAME mode degrades the picture)

DVD's:
The SS DVD player via digital coax have the same echo delay between a PCM feed going directly to the AVR vs one going to the TV. Again sending it to the TV first and then out would eliminate this echo. I will never use this since I really want Bitstream audio and not PCM. Bitstream audio is not supported on the HDMI port.

Again if I set the HD DVD950 to bitstream then I suspect that there would be a slight delay (the echo effect) but since the TV cannot process bitstream I have no way to verify this. None the less any lip synch or audio lag is not enough for me to visually notice. The few times I have thought I saw it was in things like Shrek which are probably just animation issues. Unless I dwelled on it (probably creating false ones mentally) I cannot perceive any lag.

So to summarize we don't see enough audio lag to even notice in any of our inputs to date. The only time we could notice it is when we have two different feeds of the same material that go through two different paths. Then we receive an echo delay. Since I never plan on doing this. I don't have a problem.

[QUOTE=ccouper]I have been gone a week so even though I got my HLR5668W a week ago, I was not able to get everything connected until late last night. I have run a number of tests on the audio lag issue and here is what I have found so far.

First my setup:

TV-HLR5668W - Audio out to AVR via Toslink
AVR Denon AVP8000 and PAO8200 & 8300 Amps
Sony AVPS7000 (only capable of 480i over component - now used as a CD player, audio via digital coax)
SS HD DVD950 via HDMI and audio to AVR via Digital Coax)
Sony PS2 via Component and analog audio to TV plus Toslink to AVR
I have no Cable or Sat STB's nor AVR's

TV Lag:

If I have a analog TV in the other room and the 68W set on the same analog OTA station, I will get an echo (like what you would get by setting your AVR to Stadium mode) between the two sets. I cannot detect any lip sync issues so I would guess that the whole picture/sound is just delayed by the digital conversion vs whats going on in the analog set.



For what its worth I keep reading description of sync problem where people compare listening to tv's in separate rooms as having an echo between them. I can tell you that I got the same echo (really a 7 second difference) between my former ANALOG sets with directv hughes boxes. I did NOT get the echo/delay when I had cablevision. I do have a 4x8 switch which I assumed somehow introduced the delay. Offered for what its worth.

Having just got my Samsung Hl-R5078W up and running I have found that I too have the Lip Sync issue on ALL of my inputs via my Onkyo 900 AVR. Reading this thread and other posts over the internet….I guess this problem is caused by a time delay introduced by the up scaling of the video signal.

I hooked the second audio stream from my Hughes HDVR2 receiver to both the audio input of the Samsung and the Audio input of my Onkyo and listened to them at the same time. There was a considerable delay on the audio that emanated from the Samsung. I was able to adjust the A/V delay on my Onkyo up to 74 ms which helped, but still appears to be to fast for the video.

How much delay needs to be used? I am thinking of replacing my Onkyo and I want to make sure that I get a unit that will have enough delay.

Later

Rick

Having just got my Samsung Hl-R5078W up and running I have found that I too have the Lip Sync issue on ALL of my inputs via my Onkyo 900 AVR. Reading this thread and other posts over the internet….I guess this problem is caused by a time delay introduced by the up scaling of the video signal.

I hooked the second audio stream from my Hughes HDVR2 receiver to both the audio input of the Samsung and the Audio input of my Onkyo and listened to them at the same time. There was a considerable delay on the audio that emanated from the Samsung. I was able to adjust the A/V delay on my Onkyo up to 74 ms which helped, but still appears to be to fast for the video.

How much delay needs to be used? I am thinking of replacing my Onkyo and I want to make sure that I get a unit that will have enough delay.

Later

Rick

Delay varies by source component, but is typically in the 60ms - 120ms range. To compensate for broadcasts with bad sync, it would be nice to be able to go higher (but, not required). To give yourself a margin of safety, I would get something that could go as high as 160ms.

I see a lip-sync issue maybe 2x a week...i have my STB connect via HDMI to TV...and my STB connected via coax digital to my home theater (Onkyo)...i was watching "Meet the Fockers" on TWC's video on-demand service when i first noticed it and it was unwatchable (one-to-syllables off!)...i've seen the problem weekly since then, but not on all channels...definitely varies broadcast-to-broadcast...sometimes i see the problem correct itself during the broadcast...what's going on?!...

sorry. re: my last post...i have a samsung 6168...

HLR5064 bought this week

Coax or Optical from SA3250HD produce lip sync issues - it varies in how noticeable it is.
DVD seems a little off too.

I'm really considering returning this set - all I see now are lip sync issues - I can't watch anything without looking for it

HLR5064 bought this week

Coax or Optical from SA3250HD produce lip sync issues - it varies in how noticeable it is.
DVD seems a little off too.

I'm really considering returning this set - all I see now are lip sync issues - I can't watch anything without looking for it

I have similar issues. However, I've also noticed that lip sync seems to be a problem across all technologies. I spend a lot of time watching TV on a regular nothing special CRT TV connected to DirecTV and I regularly notice lip sync issues on it. I've even seen lip sync issues on OTA broadcasts viewed on a CRT.

I'm convinced there is a lip sync shortcoming of MPEG compression which gets used on darn near everything at some point in the broadcast stream - HD, DVD, and yes even analog OTA.

Anyway, I did myself a big favor when I hooked a Sammy DVD player up to my Sammy DLP. That worked out a lot better than 2 other brand DVD players. DVD looks OK, as I almost never notice lip sync unless I watch real close for it. OTA HD still has major lip sync issues. I won't watch anything except sports on OTA HD since the audio there usually comes from people who aren't on the screen, making lip sync a non issue most of the time.

BTW, I complained to my local ABC station about lip sync. They said they'd forward the complain to their chief engineer. And so help my the lip sync got better the next day.

And the CRAZY thing is the audio is behind the video. All the delay boxes I've seen are designed to put more delay in the audio. But that would only make it worse. I need more delay in the video. And most complaining I see is that video processing in the Sammy is too slow. Ha! For me it seems not slow enough. Maybe somebody is overcompensating.

I have a Samsung HL-R5078W (DLP 1080p 50") and I have the same out of sync audio as other people in this channel when listening from a separate audio receiver. Samsung tech support (800-SAMSUNG) stated that is a relatively common problem and they are sending a tech out to adjust my board (free b/c it's a newer model). No need to buy an expensive Gefen or other switcher! :D

I have a hlr5067w and just bought a polk surround system but have not picked out a receiver yet.

I was wondering if an upconverting 800 dollar plus receiver would take care of this issue.

Also can someone please explain the basics of 5.1 to me.

why does the tv have an optical out if it can only give out 2 channel audio, or can you get 5.1 from the optical out if you take the optical out to a reciever??

This is really disturbing to hear since this arrangement [video directly from the STB to the tv digitally (HDMI), and audio directly from the STB to the AVR digitally (optical)] is the 'preferred' one that is supposed to provide the highest quality (and also provide DD 5.1 etc.). Can others confirm that this arrangement does indeed have lip sync problems? Is it a source problem?


I have a similar setup (HDTivo video to HLR-5067 via HDMI and HDTivo to AVR via TOSlink). It is not every time and not on every channel. I have yet to figure out a pattern.

jlswisc - The optical out will send DD 5.1 to your receiver if you are using a cable card. All of the other inputs (S-Video, componenet, and HDMI) on your TV will only accept 2 channel stereo. That is why the optical out is not sending DD 5.1 to the receiver.

I don't know if this has been addressed yet or not but.... I have an echo from my fronts to my tv which I am using as the center channel to the system. I know that this is not typical but I haven't had any problems until this new tv.
Set-up:
Sammy HL-R5667W
Onkyo TX-LR552
SA 8300HD
Sammy DVD-HD960
I have the cable and my xbox component and opticals running direct to the Onkyo and the DVD is running HDMI direct to the TV with digital coax to the receiver for sound. The Onkyo is switching the sound for all and the video for the Xbox and HDCATV. I have a passive line level converter box for my center channel to change to coax for the tv.
Now, here is the weird part. The TV is ahead of the receiver on the Cable box HD or not. Keep in mind that the receiver is the only audio feed for the TV. I have had 2 TV's prior to this one that this worked great for and I'm at a loss with this new tv as to why it is ahead of everything else. I've even tried to retard the center timing to compensate.
Anyone see this sitch yet, or am I alone on this? Is my only solution to buy a separate center channel or is there a setting I can adjust to make the internal speakers work? Any help is appreciated!!