"Official" is in quotation marks as I don't know what it takes to make a thread official.:p

In this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=542349), breakbeat46 asked:

As far as the HT EQ, has anyone noticed that it affects the LFE signal also? i just want to confirm if its just my ears or its the reciever.

That's a good question to start.

EDIT: Helpful links:

Marantz website (http://www.marantz.com/)

Marantz USA page on SR7400 (http://us.marantz.com/shop/_templates/Proddetail.asp?model=23&cat=15)
Marantz SR7400 user manual (http://us.marantz.com/downloads/SR7400/DFU_SR7400_Final_Eng.pdf)

Marantz USA page on SR7500 (http://us.marantz.com/shop/_templates/Proddetail.asp?model=24&cat=15)
Marantz SR7500 spec sheet (http://us.marantz.com/downloads/SR7500/SR7500_SPECS.pdf)
Marantz SR7500 user manual (http://us.marantz.com/downloads/SR7500/DFU_SR7500_Final_Eng.pdf)

Marantz USA page on SR8400 (http://us.marantz.com/shop/_templates/Proddetail.asp?model=79&cat=15)
Marantz SR8400 user manual (http://us.marantz.com/downloads/SR8400/DFU%20SR8400%20Final%20Eng.pdf)

Marantz USA page on SR8500 (http://us.marantz.com/shop/_templates/Proddetail.asp?model=25&cat=15)
Marantz SR8500 spec sheet (http://us.marantz.com/downloads/SR8500/SR8500_SPECS.pdf)
Marantz SR8500 user manual (http://us.marantz.com/downloads/SR8500/DFU_SR8500_Final_Eng.pdf)

My question is regarding CSII Mono mode.

Obviously I don't use this mode much, but when it's required it's the only soundfield that directs mono sound to more than one speaker.

But what is it supposed to sound like? My 7400 just directs the same mono signal to all channels. Sounds pretty crappy...

The Denon receivers I used to have had a nice "mono movie" soundfield that would apply the same signal with a delay in the surrounds. Sounded very nice.

Is my 7400 implementing this mode properly? Is that what it's supposed to sound like (same signal, all channels)?

It's one of the few things I regret moving from Denon to Marantz, but I don't use the setting much.

breakbeat46, I tried tests for you tonight with my 7400. I flipped HT-EQ off and on and tried to listen for changes in bass. It was pretty hard, I flipped HT-EQ on and off 30 or 40 times to try to tell a difference.

On analog sources (bass produced by crossover only) I noticed no difference.

On Dolby Digital 5.1 sources (bass by crossover and LFE) I thought I heard a very slight bass reduction when HT-EQ was turned on. It was very slight though.

That's not to say there was no bass reduction - you're cutting an equalizer into the circuit. It will primarily affect treble, but it could affect other frequencies as well, if only slightly.

In fact what I may have heard was a very small overall volume reduction.

I got my 8400 early this week and love the sound. My last system was a Krell Showcase pre pro /Sherbourn amp and the 8400 to me sounds better. Though its been a couple of years since I had the pre/pro, it did not sound like this. Iv only use it so far in a HT setup. I was just going to use the Sr8400 until I was ready to jump back into the highend department but Im going to hold off for awhile. I might even invest into the 8500 down the line.

The downside of this reciever is it doesnt display the menu in 480p. Also does anyone have any problems with setting up the speaker level using the internal pink noise. It is simply not loud enough for my radio shack spl meter to read it. Setting is 80/ slow response and C but cant even get a reading even if Im right up on the speaker.

The downside of this reciever is it doesnt display the menu in 480p. Also does anyone have any problems with setting up the speaker level using the internal pink noise. It is simply not loud enough for my radio shack spl meter to read it. Setting is 80/ slow response and C but cant even get a reading even if Im right up on the speaker.

Did you raise the receiver main volume when measuring the test tone? It drops the sound by 10 dB so it won't blow your speakers or your eardrums. By sheer luck, mine was very close to reference. I started the tone in the L speaker and raised the volume until my meter read 75 dB. I noticed that my volume was at +1, so I lowered it to 0, adjusted the L speaker up 1 dB and then calibrated the rest. So it's calibrated to reference level, 85 dB at 0.

Does anyone use the THX setting on the 8500?

What are the dis/advantages of using it? Especially if one isnt using THX cert speakers.

Hi,
I recently won one of the SR-8400 receivers from Ubid and I have a 7.1 speaker setup. I'm using the receiver strictly as a pre-amp (with 2-channel & 5-channel amps). Anyway, I went into the speaker setup menu and configured the receiver for 7.1 (both surround speakers). As for as digital cable, I have both the digital & analog outputs from my cable box connected to the SR-8400. I have been able to successfully engage DPL-IIX when playing a DVD or digital cable channels but when switching to analog cable channels, I'm unable to engage multi-channel mode while using DPL-IIX or Circle Surround II 6.1. I've also gone into the menu and tried each of the receiver audio input modes (pg 26 of the manual, RH side) to >Digital Auto>Digital>Analog>. Still no DPL-IIX or Circle Surr-II multi-channel sound from analog (surround) channels. Am I missing something? I've researched both of these formats thoroughly and I understand how they work (I been reading A/V forums & magazines for 10 yrs now). I previously had an HK AVR-525 and Logic-7 was great for creating multichannel sound from analog sources. Thanks for any advice you can provide. :(

Another happy uBid winner (upgraded from 7400, which I payed more for refurb'd!).

Anyone want to take a crack at explaining the LFE level menu choice? 0, -10 or off. What exactly does that do?

Thanks!

I have been able to successfully engage DPL-IIX when playing a DVD or digital cable channels but when switching to analog cable channels, I'm unable to engage multi-channel mode while using DPL-IIX or Circle Surround II 6.1. I've also gone into the menu and tried each of the receiver audio input modes (pg 26 of the manual, RH side) to >Digital Auto>Digital>Analog>. Still no DPL-IIX or Circle Surr-II multi-channel sound from analog (surround) channels. Am I missing something? I've researched both of these formats thoroughly and I understand how they work (I been reading A/V forums & magazines for 10 yrs now). I previously had an HK AVR-525 and Logic-7 was great for creating multichannel sound from analog sources. Thanks for any advice you can provide. :(

Do you mean you cannot select PLIIx or CSII with analog channels, or that you hear no sound from the surround speakers when in these modes with analog sources?

It's normal to hear very little with analog sources and PLIIx engaged. There isn't much separation even with Dolby Surround-encoded programs. But you should have a little sound from both the surround and rear speakers. Put your ear right up to the speaker, you should hear a faint copy of the front material, often sounding a little fuzzy or distorted.

Also, there are TWO ways to set the channel levels. One is through the speaker setup menu, but there's another way through the Surround Menu, screen 4. Each soundfield has its own customizeable adjustment. These adjustments are added or subtracted from the speaker setup levels to customize the channel levels for each soundfield. Make sure every soundfield is set to 0 in order to keep the channel level adjustments, or you could turn up the surrounds and rears to get more sound from them.

Actually I'm not entirely sure what this screen does. The manual doesn't explain, so I don't know if these adjustments are added/subtracted from the global levels or if they replace the global levels entirely. They do have an effect, my dealer had set some customizations here and things sounded strange until I set every soundfield the same (the same as my global settings). But now I'm thinking that rather than setting levels the same as my global settings, I should set everything to 0.

Another happy uBid winner (upgraded from 7400, which I payed more for refurb'd!).

Anyone want to take a crack at explaining the LFE level menu choice? 0, -10 or off. What exactly does that do?

Thanks!

I left it at 0 and it sounds fine...

Were you having problems with it clipping the LFE preout?

lfe sets the overall output of the lfe effects channel. I wish there was more adjustment options. If all your speakers are set to small, all the bass including lfe is sent through sub output, and can actualy overdrive or clip the sub out signal on some receivers and pre amps, regardless of actual volume setting. If all your speakers are set to small it is probably smart to set lfe to -10. With large front setting I'm not exactly shure, this is the way I'm setup, and have been using the 0 setting. We should find out if the 8400 or others, is capable of swinging a clean sub output signal with lfe set to 0, and all speakers set to small. I'm still trying to figure this out.

We should find out if the 8400 or others, is capable of swinging a clean sub output signal with lfe set to 0, and all speakers set to small. I'm still trying to figure this out.

All my speakers are set to small...no troubles here with LFE at 0.

But then again I have a relatively poor sub.

I'm guessing it's probably fine. I remember this being a problem during the first couple years dolby digital was new. It's also pretty hard hearing distortion at low frequencies so it might not be to apparent. I think -5 would be ideal( for me at least). Mine sounds pretty good too with 0 lfe setting, even though I bottomed the sub once, sub was set to +8 though. It's now at +2 and alls fine.

Anyone's 8400 run a little warm after a movie at high volume. Mine's definately a little on the hot side, compared to my old school harmon kardon avr80. Sound great though.

Good idea on the "offical" marantz thread, I hope it keeps going.

I'm running all speakers small with LFE 0 (I guess that's the default), and didn't have any problems. Just curious as to what it did, thanks. Doesn't run any warmer than my SR7400 did, but then again I'm powering everything at the moment with external amps. I may use the 8400 to do everything but the mains in the near future though.

I also bought a uBid 8400.

Question: if I input a hi-def component video signal to the 8400, will it output a hi-def signal? I'd like to use the 8400 to switch between my DVD player and my hi-def cable box, but I don't want to downsample the 1080i signal.

Question: if I input a hi-def component video signal to the 8400, will it output a hi-def signal? I'd like to use the 8400 to switch between my DVD player and my hi-def cable box, but I don't want to downsample the 1080i signal.
Yes - HiDef in - HiDef out. Shouldn't have any noticable degradation.

Ed

Another happy uBid winner (upgraded from 7400, which I payed more for refurb'd!).

Anyone want to take a crack at explaining the LFE level menu choice? 0, -10 or off. What exactly does that do?

Thanks!
That has to do with DD movies vs music. DD is set up so that movie LFE plays 10 dB louder than the encoding. Music is meant to be flat and doesn't have that 10 dB "enhancement".

Ed

Shortened quote from Fraoch: Do you mean you cannot select PLIIx or CSII with analog channels, or that you hear no sound from the surround speakers when in these modes with analog sources?
___________________________________________________

I can select PLIIx & CSII with analog channels but I don't hear any sound from any of the surround speakers. I know that they are generally silent unless some encoded material finds it's way to the surrounds but this is not the case in this situation. Also, the receiver display only shows the L/R speakers active. It's strange. As for the channel levels, I've run speaker tests to set the appropriate channel levels using a rat-shack SPL meter (I have a DVE disk but haven't used it on the Marantz yet). And yes, I actually went into the different surround menus to adjust the speaker levels for PLIIx & CSII separately. I've also been in both menus that set speaker levels. I double checked my analog out from my cable box into the receiver (tried TV audio input-only 2 channel sound, then DSS/VCR-2 audio input-only 2 channel sound). My JVC DVD recorder's tuner is also being used and it's analog inputs are hooked up to the receiver's VCR-1 input (along with a digital coax of course). Lastly, I played the movie "Top Gun" (Widescreen Special Director's Edition) and set the audio to regular Dolby surround in the setup menu. The DPLII mode appropriately engaged all 7 speakers. I'm truly puzzled at this point. Has anyone out there been able to engage PLIIx and or CSII on analog cable TV channels and hear sound through the surrounds?
Oh, someone mentioned that they couldn't get a reading on their SPL meter while trying to set the speaker levels. I experienced the same thing. SPL meter set to "C" weighting/slow response at 80db. My SPL meter barely moved! :(

I believe EKB is nearly correct with his LFE level comment. However, it was the early DTS CD's that had their recorded LFE 10 dB too high. For their playback, you should lower the LFE level to -10 dB.

Jeff

Has anyone out there been able to engage PLIIx and or CSII on analog cable TV channels and hear sound through the surrounds?
Oh, someone mentioned that they couldn't get a reading on their SPL meter while trying to set the speaker levels. I experienced the same thing. SPL meter set to "C" weighting/slow response at 80db. My SPL meter barely moved! :(

PLIIx and CSII works fine for me on analog sources. Something's up though, on analog sources I don't get a speaker diagram at all (it turns off). How do you get your cable TV - through an analog method or through a digital set-top box that sends both analog and digital channels?

Are you getting a Dolby Digital, Dolby Surround or PCM flag on your display?

Do you have both optical/digital coaxial and analog L/R audio from your cable box to the receiver?

Regarding the SPL meter, do you turn up the volume when you take readings? I have to turn mine up to 0 to get a 75 dB reading - there's a 10 dB attenuation when the unit is producing test tones. So if you test at normal listening level your meter will probably not read anything.

I believe EKB is nearly correct with his LFE level comment. However, it was the early DTS CD's that had their recorded LFE 10 dB too high. For their playback, you should lower the LFE level to -10 dB.
It was my understanding that the LFE channel in movies is recorded 10 dB DOWN to give it more headroom. By default, receivers and Pre/pros boost the LFE by 10 dB on playback to restore the proper LFE volume. But now such a system can improperly boost music bass by 10 dB. That's why one has the -10 dB option.

Ed

PLIIx and CSII works fine for me on analog sources. Something's up though, on analog sources I don't get a speaker diagram at all (it turns off). How do you get your cable TV - through an analog method or through a digital set-top box that sends both analog and digital channels?

Are you getting a Dolby Digital, Dolby Surround or PCM flag on your display?

Do you have both optical/digital coaxial and analog L/R audio from your cable box to the receiver?

Regarding the SPL meter, do you turn up the volume when you take readings? I have to turn mine up to 0 to get a 75 dB reading - there's a 10 dB attenuation when the unit is producing test tones. So if you test at normal listening level your meter will probably not read anything.

I'm using a Scientific Atlanta digital set-top box. Yes, I have a digital coax and analog L/R running from the cable box to the receiver. I had it set up this way on my HK to make sure that I received Logic-7 decoding when I switched from a digital channel to an analog channel.

I'm having no problem receiving PLIIx or CSII through the surrounds on digital cable channels. I dug back into the manual and on pg 25 there's a matrix which describes the relation between the selected surround mode and the input signal. For PLIIx, the manual states that in Pro Logic, PCM audio input signal can decode into PLIIx movie (for example) and the signal format indicator will only display PCM (L/R speakers on the display).

Then for plain analog to PLIIx, you will not see a speaker diagram on the display. That explains why you didn't see anything in analog. So depending on the specific mode, the speaker diagram will show differently. That matrix is actually very helpful. I received this receiver last Thursday, got it hooked up Friday but I haven't had a chance to put it through it's paces fully. I'll do more extensive listening through more analog channels; maybe the ones I've been flipping through didn't have any surround info present.

As for the test tones, yeah, I had increased the receiver volume before but I guess I didn't turn it up high enough. I was afraid of clipping the signal. Now, I'm good to go on that; 75db all around, including the sub. Fraoch, as gprr01 mentioned, I'm glad you started this thread. I've had a hometheater setup since 1996 (2 Yamaha's, Sony ES, 2 HKs, now the Marantz) and I've helped many friends set up and calibrate their home theaters. However, each receiver has it's own setup/quirks, etc. :)

I'm having no problem receiving PLIIx or CSII through the surrounds on digital cable channels. I dug back into the manual and on pg 25 there's a matrix which describes the relation between the selected surround mode and the input signal. For PLIIx, the manual states that in Pro Logic, PCM audio input signal can decode into PLIIx movie (for example) and the signal format indicator will only display PCM (L/R speakers on the display).

Then for plain analog to PLIIx, you will not see a speaker diagram on the display. That explains why you didn't see anything in analog. So depending on the specific mode, the speaker diagram will show differently. That matrix is actually very helpful. I received this receiver last Thursday, got it hooked up Friday but I haven't had a chance to put it through it's paces fully. I'll do more extensive listening through more analog channels; maybe the ones I've been flipping through didn't have any surround info present.

Hmm, so on the analog channels the signal is sent digitally as a 2-channel PCM stream? Then yes, it would display only L/R on the display.

Try CSII mono. On a 2-channel PCM signal it should put a fairly loud copy on the surrounds and rears. That will indicate whether the CSII decoder is working properly. With PLIIx, I notice that the following have noticeable surround information:

- commercials:p
- CSI
- ER
- The Simpsons is encoded in Dolby Surround but actually has very little surround info - however you do get surround activity from time to time

I'll be in the same situation as you in a few months. I'll be going back to satellite. When I had it before, there were some channels in Dolby Digital 2.0, some movies in Dolby Digital 5.1, but the rest was in 2-channel digital PCM. I only used the optical digital output though - I connected the analog L/R cables directly to the TV so I could watch TV for light viewing without having to turn on the receiver.

In input setup, page 18, do you have TV set for "D-AT" (auto digital/analog detect), "Dig" (digital only) or "ANA" (analog only)?

You don't have the receiver set to AUTO SURROUND? This seems to like choosing stereo for sources other than DVDs. Pretty useless IMHO.:rolleyes:

You indicate you've already played around with the "A/D" button on the remote.

Hmm, so on the analog channels the signal is sent digitally as a 2-channel PCM stream? Then yes, it would display only L/R on the display.

Try CSII mono. On a 2-channel PCM signal it should put a fairly loud copy on the surrounds and rears. That will indicate whether the CSII decoder is working properly. With PLIIx, I notice that the following have noticeable surround information:

- commercials:p
- CSI
- ER
- The Simpsons is encoded in Dolby Surround but actually has very little surround info - however you do get surround activity from time to time

I'll be in the same situation as you in a few months. I'll be going back to satellite. When I had it before, there were some channels in Dolby Digital 2.0, some movies in Dolby Digital 5.1, but the rest was in 2-channel digital PCM. I only used the optical digital output though - I connected the analog L/R cables directly to the TV so I could watch TV for light viewing without having to turn on the receiver.

In input setup, page 18, do you have TV set for "D-AT" (auto digital/analog detect), "Dig" (digital only) or "ANA" (analog only)?

You don't have the receiver set to AUTO SURROUND? This seems to like choosing stereo for sources other than DVDs. Pretty useless IMHO.:rolleyes:

You indicate you've already played around with the "A/D" button on the remote.

Yeah, I did play with the A/D button on the remote. Hey, check out the matrix on page 26. There's also a note on the bottom left hand side of the page that says: Dolby Digital (2 ch: Lt/Rt): signal with (when) Dolby Surround flag speakers are set.

> No sound outputs from the surround speaker, center speaker, and subwoofer if the DVD disc has no surround data.

Hmm, that probably explains why I didn't hear any sound at all through the surrounds on some analog cable channels, although I do hear sound from the center channel speaker.
_______________________________________
Update: I turned to TBS and the Braves were playing the Phillies. I was able to hear sound through all surround speakers in PLIIx and CSII. I guess it was a matter of finding an analog channel with some info present in the surround channels.

In this respect, the manual is accurate. Logic 7 cinema/music is more aggressive; no matter what analog channel I was watching, I could always hear something in the surrounds (even if it was subtle, in case anyone is thinking maybe Logic 7 was a little too aggressive).

So initially, I'd have to say that Logic-7's channel steering is little a better than PLIIx and CSII (at least on this receiver). As a final note; I did some speaker level adjustments in each PLIIx and CSII mode also. So far, I'm impressed with this receiver's clarity though. Center channel dialog is clearer than the HK's in my opinion, however, in my initial impression, I think the receivers sound very similar overall.

I'll keep everyone posted as I listen to more music, movies, etc. I'm running a set of Polk Audio 250 watt towers (older RT-12/16s?), Polk center channel, Atlantic Tech dipoles on the sides, Polk audio sats in the rear. 65-inch Sony widescreen rear-projection HD-monitor calibrated with DVE disk.
:)

My 8400 seems to be lacking vocal weight. Images are more defined ( but smaller )and detailed than my other receiver, but I thinks it's due to a recess in the lower mid range. Anyone else notice this?

Just finished 1st Austin powers, and I'm kind of struggling to hear dialog clearly on lower volume dialog passages. It seems when people lower there voices, the volume goes down more than it should, not linear. I don't know what to think now. Many aspects of the sound are better than my H/K avr 80 ( old but very good, $1600 10 years ago ) but the dialog and some vocals don't seem right. Anyone in N.C. have an 8400 that would be willing to compare if I brought mine over? I don't know if mine is exactly right. Oh yeah, I'm in Wake county.

Just finished 1st Austin powers, and I'm kind of struggling to hear dialog clearly on lower volume dialog passages. It seems when people lower there voices, the volume goes down more than it should, not linear. I don't know what to think now. Many aspects of the sound are better than my H/K avr 80 ( old but very good, $1600 10 years ago ) but the dialog and some vocals don't seem right. Anyone in N.C. have an 8400 that would be willing to compare if I brought mine over? I don't know if mine is exactly right. Oh yeah, I'm in Wake county.

Try doing a search on "voice dialog during movies." You'll find several posts (including one by Fraoch with a link to some discussions). Some reading I've done in past discussions centered on how voice dialog in the center channel was barely audible and then you'd hear a big explosion or something when during scene transitions and find yourself scrambling to turn the volume down.

Sometimes, subjective to the way the director intended the movie to be (much like screen aspect ratios), or the way it was recorded by the Sound Engineer (someone correct me if I'm wrong). By the way, have you done a speaker level calibration yet?

I remember that HK AVR-80. I read a an excellent review on it in Stereo Review (now Sound & Vision Mag) years ago. The reviews were more critical than they are now.

I also read one issue which had a competing Marantz SR-96 in it where the reviewer mentioned that the internal parts in the HK & Marantz were very similar (at the time, as well as the sound).
Here's a link to a site that has reviews on both:
http://202.186.86.35/audio/search.asp (click on hometheater)

Coincidentally, I mentioned that my HK AVR-525 and the SR-8400 sound similar to me (early on). I don't know if it's because they have Cirrus Logic chips in both or not.

Just finished 1st Austin powers, and I'm kind of struggling to hear dialog clearly on lower volume dialog passages. It seems when people lower there voices, the volume goes down more than it should, not linear. I don't know what to think now. Many aspects of the sound are better than my H/K avr 80 ( old but very good, $1600 10 years ago ) but the dialog and some vocals don't seem right. Anyone in N.C. have an 8400 that would be willing to compare if I brought mine over? I don't know if mine is exactly right. Oh yeah, I'm in Wake county.

I think the general consensus is that problems with dialogue is one of the most apparent and annoying aspects of room interaction - "blurring" or "smearing" of the front soundstage caused by first reflections.

Channel level is crucial for the centre speaker. In every setup I've ever done, the centre channel was the one that needed the most adjustment. I'm beginning to think the centre channel may have to be adjusted 2-3 dB higher than the other channels for Dolby Digital and dts. Thankfully the Marantz receivers help out here as there are individual channel trim adjustments specific to both DD and dts.

There's also Dolby Digital's Dialog Normalization (dialnorm) which places dialogue 25-30 dB lower than effects volume. This is to allow for 75 dB dialogue with 100 dB effects, but if you're listening to a Dolby Digital track at lower volumes the dialnorm may make quiet vocal passages too quiet. Apparently some movies have a higher dialnorm than others - IIRC Roger Dressler from Dolby Labs stated that The Lord of the Rings DD tracks had a dialnorm of 32 dB, which is higher than most.

[QUOTE=Fraoch]I think the general consensus is that problems with dialogue is one of the most apparent and annoying aspects of room interaction - "blurring" or "smearing" of the front soundstage caused by first reflections.

Channel level is crucial for the centre speaker. In every setup I've ever done, the centre channel was the one that needed the most adjustment. I'm beginning to think the centre channel may have to be adjusted 2-3 dB higher than the other channels for Dolby Digital and dts. Thankfully the Marantz receivers help out here as there are individual channel trim adjustments specific to both DD and dts.

Yeah,

Same here. I've adjusted my center channel about the same (2-3 db) on every receiver I've owned as well as others whose systems I helped calibrate. Fraoch, I read that Dolby Dialog Normalization in one of your posts. Good info.

Same here. I've adjusted my center channel about the same (2-3 db) on every receiver I've owned as well as others whose systems I helped calibrate. Fraoch, I read that Dolby Dialog Normalization in one of your posts. Good info.

Actually I believe the dialnorm info was provided by Sanjay and Roger Dressler.:)

I'm used to calibrating all the channel levels even and this seems to be fine for multichannel stereo and Dolby Pro-Logic IIx modes. For Dolby Digital, I'll experiment with turning the channel level up by 2-3 dB. I always had problems with this but they became worse when I changed rooms (room interaction). I even upgraded my centre speaker with only a small improvement.

Hello everyone, thanks for the replies.I have done a calibration, and continue to adjust the center a couple of db's on a movie to movie basis. I think what I'm hearing is just a difference in amp's sound, amp and speaker interaction, different dac, and different dolby digital. I'm hearing this with straight two channel stereo also, and was wondering if anyone else has similar thoughts? The lower midrange just isn't as full as I like. Everything is very airy and sweet sounding, just a little to airy and sweet sounding. I think the speaker and amp match is a little off, as my speakers are already tilted a little towards the upper end( Speakers are custom, and were slightly tweaked for the HK receiver). I might be going crazy, but it sounds like somebody turned down an eq band in the upper bass/lower mid area by 3 db or so. Voices lack a chesty resonance, and some instruments are lacking in solid bite, ie: lower frequency heavy brass. A little polite maybe? Only other slight negative is mine is running hot, even with two channel. Front left and right are 4 ohm, but receiver still seems solid in the bass, so I think it can drive them. I'm contradicted, because the HK sounds like it has more balls=louder better midbass and midrange power, but the Marantz still has better low bass?

Everything else is better though. Solid imaging (although smaller), a sense that, even in two channel a good recording can project out into the room almost like surround, much lower noise floor, and better definition of detail in the treble.

I think I need to try some different speakers to see if that helps with my midrange woes. I'm thinking a demo pair of GR-Research av-1's.

Thanks for reading, and any thoughts. If anyone has similar or different feeling on my lower midrange assessment let me know. Sometimes this thing sounds so good, other times almost broke. Well not broke but voiced poorly. Somethings going on, but I'll figure it out. Just have to swap some speakers and amps in and out, and a little time.

I think I need to try some different speakers to see if that helps with my midrange woes. I'm thinking a demo pair of GR-Research av-1's.


Sounds like room interactions to me as midbass is fantastic in my setup, despite overly-quiet vocals through my centre and brightness at high volumes.

[QUOTE=Fraoch]Actually I believe the dialnorm info was provided by Sanjay and Roger Dressler.:)

Thanks Fraoch,

And my apologies to Sanjay & Roger Dressler (if either of you read this post). Fraoch/gprr01, I'd like to hear from other SR-7400/8400 owners. It seems like just us writing among ourselves right now (Not that haven't enjoyed interacting with you guys, just wondering why others aren't chiming in with comments). I realize that there may be a lot of new SR-8400 owners from the UBID auction still setting up or testing their receivers but UBID has had two auctions now. You'd think there would be a few more people speaking up, especially SR-7400 owners.
___________________________________________________
gprr01,

I too went from an HK (AVR-525) to the 8400 but I haven't had a chance to listen to the 8400 extensively yet. My comparison/differences between the two will be their performance as pre-amps because I have a B&K 5-channel amp and an older Kenwood THX 2-channel amp driving the surround back channels. I was going to buy a pre-amp and go the full separates route until I came across the sweet UBID auction for the SR-8400.

My midbass is very good also, it's more of the lower midrange that is bothering me, which could also be responcible for my slighly light weight and reccessed voices in the center. Or perhaps the upper mid and treble is just louder than my HK. Everything is exactly the same in my room, just new receiver. I'm getting ready to crank up the Gladiator soundtrack. Had to let receiver cool a little after Pink Floyd. My room is a little big, It's acualy like a third of the house. Connected living, dining, ond open kitchen. Receiver set around - 5 during loud music session. Speaker are around 95 db sensitive.

I actualy played second violin in a nationaly recognized and awarded high school orchestra. For a high school we were realy amazing. I think this is the reason for my love of analog, and a very full, yet detailed sound. When you sit near 20+ cellos and 5 or 6 upright bass you get used to a full sound! I'll report back after Gladiator.

Fraoch/gprr01, I'd like to hear from other SR-7400/8400 owners. It seems like just us writing among ourselves right now (Not that haven't enjoyed interacting with you guys, just wondering why others aren't chiming in with comments). I realize that there may be a lot of new SR-8400 owners from the UBID auction still setting up or testing their receivers but UBID has had two auctions now. You'd think there would be a few more people speaking up, especially SR-7400 owners.


I would like to hear others also, but maybe this is an indication that the units are problem-free. So what's there to talk about?:)

I started out with a Denon 1602 and then went to a Denon 1803 and now this one. Although it has way more features than the older Denon, it was not any more difficult for me to set up, and now that it's set up, it operates as problem-free as my Denons did (which were rock-solid). In fact, it was easier to set up because the test tone stays on each channel as long as you want it. The new Denons can do this also, of course. My old Denons couldn't though.

I'll report back after Gladiator.

Let us know how you listen to it - DD+PLIIx or dts-ES discrete. I tried switching between the two and couldn't tell much of a difference on The Lord of the Rings extended versions. I played certain scenes on my DVD player A-B repeat and switched back and forth dozens of times. It took hours and I still could not tell much of a difference.

Astonishingly DD+PLIIx sounded better most of the time, but not by much. It definitely wasn't as night-and-day as it was with my Denon receivers. So I'm not overly upset about not being able to layer PLIIx over dts.

Kapolei01,

Hey, I hope some others will chime in also. It's good we are keeping a dialouge going. I also got the ubid DEAL! I want to try some separate amps too. The old HK is a different beast. Was only "rated" at 85 watts in surround, 100 in stereo, but could swing some serious current. I can't remember exactly, but the mannual stated how many amps it could draw, and it was more like a high end separate. It might even be heavier than than Marantz, and its only 5 channel. Most of the weight is from the transformer.

I would love to get my hands on a multi channel amp to compare the sound with the internal amp. The internal amp, so far, stays clean at loud volume and a tough speaker load. Other than a little lack of midrange weight with my setup its realy good. I can't afford a new amp yet as I just bough 2 15 inch Asscendant Atlas subs, and am building a box for one, and will. need a good plate amp. Preliminary testing in a non optimum box and onlt 150 watts was still nuts. Realy low stuff just energizes the whole room. New box is huge. 10 cubic foot, 8 afer internal displacement. Should be fun.

[QUOTE=Fraoch]I would like to hear others also, but maybe this is an indication that the units are problem-free. So what's there to talk about?:)

Yeah,

I'm just hoping for read more comments on performance whether it's a person's first receiver or not compared to a previously owned pre-pro or receiver. I realize that
Marantz is a specialty dealer and there is comfort in knowing that.

I've also searched across every forum known to man (at least it seem like it!) and threads & reviews on Marantz are not available as much as other receivers. I'm a hometheaterholic and I love doing research (across all spectrums, TV, speakers, DVD players, etc); just want more info/feedback now that I own a Marantz.

HomeCinema Choice (British Mag) gave excellent reviews recently on both the 7500/8500 in the same mag. A previous review of the 7400 (homecinema choice) won it a best choice award. Have either of you read those reviews? :)

hi,
got my 7400 four days ago, hooked up with paradigm reference speakers(20's,570,serv-15).
the receiver getting hot is something ive experienced too, just wana know wut happens when it gets too hot?(concerns me)
besides that i also felt that vocals frm center were lacking juice a lil as compared to other channels, will play with db levels.
as far as analog source frm TV or my xbox is concerned, i kept switching frm one MLT-Chn sound format to another and couldnt decide which one to keep.

movies sound great, havent tried any cd's (in 2-chn) so far.

i have the following speakr distances. wut db setting u guys suggest.
fronts + center: 3.3m
surrounds: 6 ft
sub: 8 ft

I'm surprised the 8400/8500 don't generate more buzz than they do. They are the lowest-priced receivers with toroidal transformers out there, and if you managed to snag one of those ubid bargains, well!

Because toroids are more efficient, this means that with a given power consumption, more power is available for the amps. Also the power is cleaner for less distortion, lower noise floor, etc.

I couldn't find any online "professional" reviews of the 8400. There used to be some on the 7400 a month ago which I saved, but Google can't find any anymore.

Nauman, my 7400 does get hot but interestingly it seems to be the voltage regulation heatsink in the power supply section (see circled section in attachment). This heatsink gets so hot I can feel hot air rising from it over 6 inches away. Mine seems to be unaffected with this though - everything sounds OK.

The large amp heatsink that runs through the centre of the unit runs super-cool for me.

[QUOTE=gprro1]Kapolei01,

I would love to get my hands on a multi channel amp to compare the sound with the internal amp. The internal amp, so far, stays clean at loud volume and a tough speaker load. Other than a little lack of midrange weight with my setup its realy good. I can't afford a new amp yet as I just bough 2 15 inch Asscendant Atlas subs....
___________________________________________________________
Wow!

2 15-in subs! With those, you may not need a separate amp! LOL...
Seriously though, once you use separate amps, there may be no turning back. IMHO, a huge difference in dynamics once I switched to separate amps.

I wish I had time to build my own stuff, although I don't have those skills anyway. I have 3 sons and a working wife and I'm proudly serving in the U.S Air Force (20 yrs of service come Jan 06). I'm also working on a degree in Info Systems Technology; 12 classes left to finish my degree.

Hey Fraoch,

I find your comments on PLIIx interesting. This is my first experience with PLIIx and I've been impressed with it's performance layered over DD so far. So you think it sounds very good compared to DTS-ES huh? I'll have to check that out; I think DTS-ES discrete is awesome. Funny thing is, I think that Logic 7 sounds better than PLIIx, so far when listening to analog channels. But then again, I haven't done extensive listening tests yet.

Let's keep each posted on our opinions and hope others chime in soon.

Fraoch,

I was referring to the gladiator musical score soundtrack. Track three "The Battle" Is one of the most dynamic and powerful cd's I've heard. Really amazing, and highly recommended if you want to test your system at high volumes. One of the few tracks I worry about frying or blowing something. I didn't know you could layer PLII and DD, how do you do this? My Old HK did not have DD processing. It was done in the dvd player and sent through the 6 channel direct in.

Kapolei01,

Haven't read those review, but read The Perfect Vision review a couple of months ago on the 8500. They Rreally liked it and said it was the best at under $2000 sound wise. How similar in guts are the 8400 and 8500. I think they are close, but power rating are a little different, Did they use a bigger transformer or bigger caps?The 8400 seems to have no mag reviews.

What volume setting is loud for you guys with stereo? I have realy sensitive speakers, although tough to drive 4 ohm( actualy 3.7ish at some frequency) so it may cancel out a little with amps that can't drive them. I just listened to " The Battle" at -8 to -5. While loud, It's not terrifying loud like it can be with this track. Above -7 or -6 things start to collapse a little. No clipping or anything, just trces of starting to get bright.

Hey Fraoch,

I find your comments on PLIIx interesting. This is my first experience with PLIIx and I've been impressed with it's performance layered over DD so far. So you think it sounds very good compared to DTS-ES huh? I'll have to check that out; I think DTS-ES discrete is awesome. Funny thing is, I think that Logic 7 sounds better than PLIIx, so far when listening to analog channels. But then again, I haven't done extensive listening tests yet.

Let's keep each posted on our opinions and hope others chime in soon.

dts-ES discrete is one of the reasons I like LOTR so much. When I got my 7400, I was disappointed at losing it for 7-channel, but the tests I did settled my concerns quite a bit. With my Denon units, I could probably have picked DD and dts apart in a blind A-B test. But with this one, it would be very hard. And I might end up picking DD+PLIIx over dts-ES discrete!

I didn't hear any concrete examples of steering effects through the 2 rear channels with these movies, but it sounded at least as good as dts-ES discrete to me, if not better in many cases. Interestingly, I was watching 28 Days Later two weekends ago and there was a clear case of rear channel steering near the end where a jet fighter overflies the two starving zombies (poor guys). The sound clearly pans around you in a circle, panning its way through the 2 rear speakers in the process.

PLIIx is quite subtle. It really doesn't draw attention to itself most of the time, i.e. "Look at me! I'm in the rear channels!" I find CSII is mixed very hot in the surrounds and rears. PLIIx is very subtle by comparison. Now in order to get the same sound as Logic7 perhaps you can raise the surrounds and rears by 2-3 dB?

Regarding volume, I'm using 89-90 dB 8-ohm speakers, so it's hard to make comparisons. I have it calibrated to reference, 85 dB at 0, so I usually listen to DVDs at -25 (gives 65-75 dB nominal, with peaks over 90 dB), TV at -20 (around 65 dB) and music at -15 or -10. I don't listen extraordinarily loud, -10 dB sounds very loud to me even though it's only 75 dB.

I didn't know you could layer PLII and DD, how do you do this?

You have to have it set up for 7-channel or the PLIIx decoder will behave as a PLII decoder and will not be able to be layered on top of DD.

When you do have 7 channels enabled, simply press the Dolby double-D button on the remote on playback (I think it's M2). You'll cycle between "DOLBY D" and "DD+PLIIx" on the display.

My power supply heatsink is hot also, but so is my main sink. I'm pretty sure it's due to my difficult speakers.I wonder how hot is too hot. The receiver cage is really warm to the touch, and I imagine the actual heatsink is realy hot, specialy the small one.

I would love to find a way to have the frequency response and power measured at different resistive loads. Anyone know were or how much? I may have to go out in the main forum and ask around also.

Yeah 2 15's. I've only got room for one right now. 24x24x 36 inches tuned to 19 hz. One should be good for at least 110-111 db ( or more depending on how it reacts with room gain) at 16 hz! 120 db+ at 35hz and up. Testing in a smaller box was still fun. I could feel the air vibrating through the couch cushions. Never experienced this before.

You have to have it set up for 7-channel or the PLIIx decoder will behave as a PLII decoder and will not be able to be layered on top of DD.

When you do have 7 channels enabled, simply press the Dolby double-D button on the remote on playback (I think it's M2). You'll cycle between "DOLBY D" and "DD+PLIIx" on the display.



Ah, I need two more surrounds to get in the game. Maybe a couple months from now. I've already got enough wiring running around, more is going to be funny. Already have a hard time hiding it for just two surrounds. Dreaming of a dedicated room with in wall wiring.....

Quote from Fraoch: PLIIx is quite subtle. It really doesn't draw attention to itself most of the time, i.e. "Look at me! I'm in the rear channels!" I find CSII is mixed very hot in the surrounds and rears. PLIIx is very subtle by comparison. Now in order to get the same sound as Logic7 perhaps you can raise the surrounds and rears by 2-3 dB?
____________________________________________________________ __
I actually try to follow the old school principle I read somewhere that mentions that your surrounds shouldn't draw attention to themselves until needed and I calibrate following that theory. Initially, I just think that Logic 7s channel steering is extremely good in this regard. Others have noted this as well. I think Logic 7 is every bit as good as advertised.

Still early in the game though. Don't get me wrong, I am impressed with PLIIx and I look forward to more listening tests on various analog channels/shows. I'll that first and then see if I need to raise db levels in the surrounds and rears.

gprr01, I think the torroidal transformers are identical in the two (with slightly differnt power ratings). Obviously, the 8500 has DVI inputs/auto speaker calibrations, etc. I'll try to dig up a PDF file for you guys on the homecinema choice reviews on the 7400, 7500 & 8500.

The issue is currently in bookstores. The 8500 beat the Rotel 1065(?) and a Pioneer Elite in head to head according to reviewer. I personally wouldn't go so far as saying the Marantz is better than Rotel (Yes, I've heard Rotel both at dealers and at a friend's home). I realize that the Elite is no slouch either.

Props to Marantz though. Hey guys, my wife is getting a little impatient about leaving the house. I'll chat with you'all a little later.


:)

Ah, I need two more surrounds to get in the game. Maybe a couple months from now.

Of course, keep in mind all it gets you is two more rear channels from a 5.1 mix, or one more rear channel from a 6.1 mix. The L, C, R, SL, SR and LFE signals are untouched.

And on two-channel sources you get a 7-channel mix rather than 5-channel as PLII does.

It is a very convincing 7-channel mix though. I'm wondering how it knew to make a jet fly to my left, then pan behind me to the left, then around behind and right then fade to right.:) And this was with 5.1 channels of info, imagine how it does this with 2-channel. Although I have to say I haven't heard effects like this with 2-channel, it's more of an "ambient fill" kinda thing with 2-channel. There's definite front-to-back steering with 2-channel but not much left-to-right steering in the rears that I've heard yet.

I can't wait to try some 7 channel material. I may rig up some Infinity kappa car speakers I have for the rears. My sides would be the Atlantic Tech dipoles I'm using now. Don't know how the two will mix, I'm thinking rear pans will sound funny, and negate having the rears. I just need to find 50 or 60 feet of cable.

I'm going to dinner soon also so I have to sign off for a while, be back later tonight!

Of course, keep in mind all it gets you is two more rear channels from a 5.1 mix, or one more rear channel from a 6.1 mix. The L, C, R, SL, SR and LFE signals are untouched.
If you are talking about DD PL IIx from a 5.1 source then the SR and SL ARE affected. PL IIx takes the SR and SL and creates a new SR, SL and SBL & SBR.

Ed

Quote from gprr01
Kapolei01,

Haven't read those review, but read The Perfect Vision review a couple of months ago on the 8500. They Really liked it and said it was the best at under $2000 sound wise. How similar in guts are the 8400 and 8500. I think they are close, but power rating are a little different, Did they use a bigger transformer or bigger caps?The 8400 seems to have no mag reviews.
____________________________________________________________ ____
Yeah, I read that review also; I have a subscription to Perfect Vision. I'm not sure if the 8500 uses a bigger transformer or bigger caps or what. I'd be interested to know the difference, although as we know, 110W vs 125W is negligible in most cases. Guys, I'll try to attach the PDF file of the homecinema choice review on the SR-7400 or at least provide a link to the article.

Coincidentally, gprr01, I'm using Atlantic Dipoles also (older 254SRs, I think) bought them new during a firesale from an online retailer. I have an older Velodyne CHT-12 sub (170W continuous, 400W peak) down 3db at 28HZ. Living room is approx 20 ft long X 12 1/2 ft wide with a 10ft ceiling. I'm in close proximity to my neighbors here in Hawaii (landspace is at a premium here).

I can hardly turn the Velodyne up, 2-3 max on the dial without disturbing the neighbors. Sure wish I could get an SVS or HSU but they would be serious overkill (I would be frustrated if I couldn't test them to full capacity). I'll wait until I get back to the mainland and settle down to buy a home when I retire from the Air Force in 2 yrs.

Nauman,

If you haven't done so, as far as speaker distance vs db level, I would calibrate the speakers at 75-80db on an SPL meter at or near reference volume 0 on the Marantz like Fraoch and I did to see if it sounds good to your ears. :)

I've been listening to allot of music tonight. Mad Season, Mazzy Star, Pink Floyd's Meddle MoFi gold disk, and Muddy Watters Folk Singer MoFi gold too. Most listening in PLII. It's adding some nice midrange depth and resonant bite. Better sounding compared to stereo, because the center is a different design than the mains. The center is much chestier sounding, but still controlled. PLII is also changing the frequency response for the better, at least in my setup. This receiver is ultra silent in the decoding modes. No background noise, nice.

I've decided that my mains are a miserable match with this receiver. In stereo, vocals sound too far into the background, kind of sucked out sounding sometimes. Upper end is too prominent also, this is in the speaker though, and the receiver is not forgiving of it. Could also be the crossover between the woofer and mid. I think this is where it drops real low in impedance. Vocals that descend in pitch sometimes sound weird and maybe out of phase a little. Never noticed this before. Vocals sound a mile away sometimes. It has got to be a combo of this receiver having more high end, and maybe exposing the crossover or not liking the low impedance. The other receiver must have a fat mid and more rolled upper mid and glossed high end. I'm hoping It's just an unfriend combo. I'll play around with some different amps and speakers when I can. I think most music will be in PLII for a while. Sounds so much better than old PL.

Reading many of the post here on avsforum is like reading a religious handout. Full of unbelieveable utopian mumbo-jumbo. From the terms used to the level of detail people say they hear has always seemed contrived at best. Well last night I had my frist audiophile experience. I say that becasue until one has experienced it all the unbelieveable mumbo-jumbo people use to describe listening to their speakers/pre-pro/amps sounds as such.


This holiday weekend I've been tweaking my FIRST set:

Marantz SR8500
Denon 2900
Rockets 850's / 200 / 250

It may not be high end but it is good enough to have taught me that at least some of the mumbo-jumbo spoken here is actually based in reality. I will listening to an Andrew Lloyd Weber tract from Phantom of the Opera I knew I had the setting on stereo but I my hearing kept telling me there was music coming out of the center channel. I thought for sure my female had change the setting because the sound was so full and enveloping with a presence. I even got up and disconnected the center just to be sure there wasnt some kind of mistake.

I sat back down closed my eyes and realized this must be that 'sound stage thing" all of those audio nuts on avsforum speak of.

Hum...there may be something to this after all. :D

I would like to hear others also, but maybe this is an indication that the units are problem-free. So what's there to talk about?:)...


I just saw this thread after being away for the weekend. I've posted many times in other threads about my 7400. I don't have anything new to add, but I'll keep my eye on this thread.

Enjoy.
Doug

i was reading the manual early in the day and experimenting with the reciever. the manual is not very detailed, one has to experiment with the short descriptions given.

well this is my first ever HT setup and a A/v reciever so i do need to consult the manual :p

i connected my xbox and tv with the reciever yesterday. the stereo signals frm tv were very impressive in PLII. was watching badboys 2 on some channel in stereo mode. first i pressed AUTO in the remote which selected stereo then i selected PLII MV and it made the difference. the effects of bullets and cars rushing were taken to surround channels. now im really enjoying my Cable tv :D

then i popped in Splinter cell: Chaos theory disc in my Xbox which has Dolby D, and played it in PLII GM mode. it was awsome!. as i moved the guy in 360 degrees near the seashore, the sound was also responsive frm all channels (5.1 in my setup)to that movement.

thanks Kapolei01 for tat info :) , ill ask the dealer to bring an SPL meter and do the setup (im in Pakistan and no SPL meters available here)

i have a 5.1 setup and the receiver has 7 channel out, so i was thinking maybe i can hook my fronts to 6 and 7 channels. wud this give more power to the fronts and leave some headroom for power in each channel ???????? , and one more thing, is this called bi-amping?? ... (by asking this now im officially a Noob :o )

i have a 5.1 setup and the receiver has 7 channel out, so i was thinking maybe i can hook my fronts to 6 and 7 channels. wud this give more power to the fronts and leave some headroom for power in each channel ???????? , and one more thing, is this called bi-amping?? ... (by asking this now im officially a Noob :o )

That would be called bi-wiring and it probably won't give you any more power as the amps are using the same power supply. I don't think it will hurt though?

To set this up, you'd have use the SBL and SBR outputs as multi-room.

BTW if you do this with the "speaker B" terminals nothing will happen as it uses the same amps as speaker A.

That would be called bi-wiring and it probably won't give you any more power as the amps are using the same power supply. I don't think it will hurt though?

To set this up, you'd have use the SBL and SBR outputs as multi-room.

BTW if you do this with the "speaker B" terminals nothing will happen as it uses the same amps as speaker A.

thanks for that correction

i shud probably just add an external amp later on.

just watched Metallica S&M dvd in 5.1 and 2 channel. in 2 channel i thought the sound is coming from center as well so i got up and put my ear to the center and there was nothing. :D i believe tats a good thing, rather a very good thing.

im very anxious to tweak my system to perfection. btw can i change the db level to 75 for all channels at 0 manually from the setup menu? or its prefferable to use SPL meter?

and thanks guys , im learning a lot here rather than the manual? i couldnt believe they wound up the manual for such a reciever in 42 pages.

i managed to tune and save all TUNER channels and noticed tat tuner sounded much louder in comparison to other sources. had to turn volume level down to -35

just watched Metallica S&M dvd in 5.1 and 2 channel. in 2 channel i thought the sound is coming from center as well so i got up and put my ear to the center and there was nothing. :D i believe tats a good thing, rather a very good thing.

What this means is that you are almost perfectly positioned between your fronts. Yes, it's a good thing.:)


im very anxious to tweak my system to perfection. btw can i change the db level to 75 for all channels at 0 manually from the setup menu? or its prefferable to use SPL meter?

It is best to use an SPL meter. You can't read volumes from the setup menu. What you do is:

- start the test tone in the L speaker
- increase the system volume to 0
- adjust your L speaker volume until your SPL meter reads 75 dB (I was lucky, I only needed to adjust the speaker by a dB or two. If you're off by more than 12 dB either way you will not be able to calibrate to reference volume.)
- move the test tone to every other speaker, adjusting each to 75 dB
- adjust your sub to 72 dB to compensate for the non-linear bass response of the Radio Shack meter, assuming this is the meter you're using

thanks Fraoch,

wish there was auto-eq and callibration feature in it.

-- here is the arrangement of my connections, need some advice on improving.

ive connected my dvd player directly to Tv with component video.
xbox to tv (audio/video both)
a separate cable is going to Tv frm monitor out of the reciever.

i have to change to video2 on tv everytime i have to use OSD of reciever.

1. is it possible to get OSD from component out?? rather than using monitor out of the reciever?

2. since i have a normal progressive dvd player (480p; panasonic), if i connect my dvd to reciever thru composite video and frm reciever to tv have a component out , wud it still give progressive signals?
is there ne way to get 720p signals in this setup??

I have a 8400 powering a NHT setup and have found the 8400 to be very neutral sounding. Everything seems to sound the way it should sound and in my small room, my NHT ST4 with a 12" Velo the bass does get overpowering at times. What this means to me is that the 8400 seems to have enough power to run the 86db NHT at reference volume in my small living room. 12 x 15 x 9 with one side opening into the kitchen/dining area. After calibrating at 0 to reflect 70 db (don't ask, I just did that the first time) with the RatShack SPL meter, I've yet to go over -10 at which point it becomes unbearably loud and I can't hear my wife shouting at me anymore. :)

Fraoch, I'm glad you started this thread.

Someone also asked the difference between the 8400 and the 8500. While the obvious difference have been stated, what is also different is the Cirrus DSP chipset in the 8500 which has (on paper) a lot more flexibility than the one used in the 8400. The exact model number escapes me at the moment but knowing the model number one can goto Cirrus' website to read it's capabilities. Though I don't know if it makes it better sounding. :)

Paradox-SJ,

The first time you hear a system truly capable of all the audiophile terms you hear about, it is absolutely jaw dropping. My first experience with this was at a local really high end store around five years ago, that luckily has some friendly staff, which is rare for a high end shop. The system and room treatment probably cost $150,000 all together. Magnapan 20's for speaker( a giant magnetic planar speaker), Burmester and Mark Levinson DAC and transport, and Mark Levinson monobloc amps(Their top of the line models. Don't remember what # but they were like two feet tall and three feet deep.), and stupid expensive cables. Still the best I have heard to date. First song was a jazz ensemble. Female vocal, upright bass, and drum. The female vocal sounded absolutely real, a palpable image about 2 feet infront of the speaker plane. The bass sounded 6 feet behind and to the left of the left speaker, drums were behind the vocal and a couple feet to the right. This is where really good systems separate from others, the ability to place layered three dimensional images in space, and not only your space but recreate the recording venue in your room. It's not something you have to stuggal to hear. It's just there.

Since then I have heard some other good systems too, that don't cost multiple tens of thousands of dollars, I have also heard some $100,000 systems that sound, for the money, sound like crap. Point being, good sound doesn't have to be super expensive. If you can you should visit a good high end shop and see if they might give you a good demo, fair warning though many shops on the upper end can be snooty. I think it's horrible and can be very off-putting. Hopefully you can find a friendly one. Where do you live? I have some listings of shops that I can direct you to if you like. Don't know if they are nice people, but I'll know what equipment they carry.

For now, how is your system set up? Speakers, cd player, etc? The 8500 I think is capable of very good sound. I have the 8400, and even though I've been whining a little about my speaker combo, I can still hear some very good things going on. If you are not already, try running a digital cable for cd's into the receiver instead of the two regular rca's. Also, when you find a cd that locks a vocal in the middle and has other solid imaging, try moving your speakers around and see whats sounds best. Many speakers sound best pulled out a few feet from the back wall, this can add dimension to images and soundstaging. Enjoy your listening, and welcome to good sound.

nmo,

-10 with movies, music or both? For me,-10 on music is not incredibly loud. Big room however, Approx 18 x 25, with adjoining kitchen that is mostly open. 95db speakers too, but tough to drive.

Anyone else using difficult speakers?

:eek:

Turned off receiver by accident with remote. Put CD on pause. Let the receiver turn back on, heard the internal click(didn't want a loud turn on thump when the receiver came back on, thats why I hit pause). Was listenig at -12 in PLII , when I hit play again nasty arse loud static click. Through the surounds mosly I think. Just a heads up, if receiver is off and cd or dvd is powered on, I had to power dvd/cd player off or I get this noise when receiver is turned on. I tried again even with cd player fully stopped, not just paused. This is with digital cd input. Power up receiver first.

1. is it possible to get OSD from component out?? rather than using monitor out of the reciever?

Manual, page 17:

To view the on-screen displays, make certain you
have made a connection from the Monitor Out jack
on the rear panel to the composite, S-Video,
component video input of your TV or projector.

So yes it works, but only on 480i.


2. since i have a normal progressive dvd player (480p; panasonic), if i connect my dvd to reciever thru composite video and frm reciever to tv have a component out , wud it still give progressive signals?
is there ne way to get 720p signals in this setup??

I don't know much about video and don't use any video functions in the 7400. But can you even send 720p by composite? I'm not sure. You may have to go component for that.

Manual, page 17:



So yes it works, but only on 480i.



I don't know much about video and don't use any video functions in the 7400. But can you even send 720p by composite? I'm not sure. You may have to go component for that.

Nauman, Fraoch,

No, the video signal has to be the same; i.e, composite will only send a 480i signal (at best) while component is a minimum of 480p on DVD & HD sources, 480i on OSD. Your DVD player would have to be able to upconvert to 720p or 1080i so see close to HD quality. Even then, it's still not true HD. 480p cannot produce true 720p or 1080i content, thus HD DVD players coming on the market soon.

- Interestingly enough, I haven't been able to get the SR-8400 to send a component video signal to the OSD. It's really not that big of a deal but my TV has one DVI in, 2 component in.

- My dilemna is I'd like to use the JVC recorders component out but I prefer using my Denon (better DVD player with a Faroudja chip in it) and my cable box's
component out for HD content (DVI output won't show an a cable tv menu, arrgh!).

I wanted to try this setup:
- Digital Cable box component out to TV component in

- Receiver's component out to the TV's 2nd component in

- Denon DVD player's component out to the receivers 1st component in

- JVC DVD recorder's component out to the receivers 2nd component in

I've queried others on this forum who think this can work and I've used my HK's video
inputs once or twice before and I actually saw no discernible difference between the TV and the HK (which does 50MHz on component).

- Now, I know that the TV's component input is most optimal but I was rather impressed with what I saw when I used the receiver's (HK's video inputs and I know the Marantz does 80MHz from component).

- Yes, I've read countless threads also which talks about optimal HD bandwith (including one mentioned that only 37MHz minimum bandwith is required for HD content) and others that argued that a higher minimum nbr was needed.

- I'm no videophile but I've done my homework on the video side also and I was impressed when I used my HK for video for a few days. :)

[QUOTE=nmo]I have a 8400 powering a NHT setup and have found the 8400 to be very neutral sounding. Everything seems to sound the way it should sound and in my small room, my NHT ST4 with a 12" Velo the bass does get overpowering at times. What this means to me is that the 8400 seems to have enough power to run the 86db NHT at reference volume in my small living room.
_________________________________________
nmo,

It's good to hear that the Marantz is driving NHT's which are notoriously power hungry. Nice speakers. Guys, I haven't really paid attention to what level the volume's at or done some extensive critical listening to my 8400 yet. With a family (especially a working wife and children), work and and a management course, I'm extremely busy right now, sigh :(

____________________________________________
I can say that after further review, PLIIx is starting to sound pretty darn good!

- I did a second calibration of my speakers and replaced a faulty speaker wire in my surround back right speaker.

I listened to some digital music channels (haven't played any cd's yet) when rocking my 2-year old to sleep and I was impressed with 7 channel audio. The sound in the surrounds were subtle but it was very pleasing. It was an easy listening music channel.

- I also tried the re-mastered version of Top Gun when Tom Cruise encounters a jet wash and has to eject before he crashes. Before he does, the jet is spinning madly through the air which is a great test of sweeping sounds through the surrounds. I was really impressed with PLIIx during that scene. I can't wait to try LOTR and some of the other recent blockbusters. Just friggin busy right now!

Kapolei01:

I thought that most receivers' OSD will only work through 480i signals?

The cheap video interface chips they use aren't sophisticated enough to display progessive signals (but they can pass them through).

Kapolei01:

I thought that most receivers' OSD will only work through 480i signals?

The cheap video interface chips they use aren't sophisticated enough to display progessive signals (but they can pass them through).

Yes,

That's true; the receiver will only show a 480i receiver on OSD. Current receivers however, are capable of progressive scan (480P) signals, using the TV's monitor of course, thus the video bandwith spec I mentioned (50MHz for my HK, 80MHz for the 8400).

- So yes, you can use your receiver to show 480p video signals from your DVD player after you connect component out from the receiver to the TV, then the DVD player into your receiver.

- Now again, someone is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong. I've read so much about all of this (hometheater audio & video), my head spins sometimes! :)

Kapolei01:

I'm in a similar situation regarding the 8400's video switching. My AV rack is about 10 feet from the TV, and I'd like to connect two video sources through the 8400: a Denon 2910 DVD player, and a hi-def cable box (both connected via component cables). This would mean I'd only have to have one cable going to the TV.

But if this negatively impacts the resolution/signal quality, I'd rather manually switch the component cable when I watch DVDs. Never used a AV receiver for video switching, but I'd be surprised if there is no degradation at all.

Kapolei01:

Never used a AV receiver for video switching, but I'd be surprised if there is no degradation at all.

Yeah,

I agree. As I mentioned, I saw no discernible difference when I used my HK for video switching once. As a matter of fact, I am going direct to my TV for the reason you mentioned.

- Anytime you have to go through switching, be it audio or video vs a direct path, there is probably a bit of degradation.

- However, I'm going to give the 8400 a shot at video switching when I get a chance, just to see if it looks good to my eyes. Doesn't hurt to try, right? :)

I currently use my 8500's video switching for my 2900 DVD, Xbox, Dish HD DVR via componet and HTPC via DVI.

Although there is no noticable difference it doesnt mean there isnt a measurable one.
The only issue I have with it is I had each of my componet inputs calibrated for a seperate source and now they all display through one source.

I will proably break back out the DVD directly to the TV for this reason only

[QUOTE=Paradox-SJ]I currently use my 8500's video switching for my 2900 DVD, Xbox, Dish HD DVR via componet and HTPC via DVI.

Although there is no noticable difference it doesnt mean there isnt a measurable one.

Paradox,

I'm sure there is measurable difference. I'm going to calbrate all video sources when I try this. It goes back to what a lot of people say or think; if sound or video is satisfying to your ears or eyes, that's what counts the most.

- I know that video direct to the TV is the best method. Again, it doesn't hurt to see what it looks like. Have you been satisfied with you video thru the 8500 for the most part?

gprro1: -10 with movies, music or both? For me,-10 on music is not incredibly loud. Big room however, Approx 18 x 25, with adjoining kitchen that is mostly open. 95db speakers too, but tough to drive.

Actually I never thought about changing that until I read about it here yesterday. I tried it out while watching Goldeneye, which wasn't a good movie to test it on. The soundtrack is bass-heavy. I don't just don't seem to have the time to sit down and listen to music anymore so cannot comment on it.

Kapolei01: It's good to hear that the Marantz is driving NHT's which are notoriously power hungry. Nice speakers. Guys, I haven't really paid attention to what level the volume's at or done some extensive critical listening to my 8400 yet. With a family (especially a working wife and children), work and and a management course, I'm extremely busy right now, sigh

I hear ya. I think as long as you don't have any cause for complains then your setup is perfect for you and working exactly the way it should.

[QUOTE=Paradox-SJ]I currently use my 8500's video switching for my 2900 DVD, Xbox, Dish HD DVR via componet and HTPC via DVI.

Although there is no noticable difference it doesnt mean there isnt a measurable one.

Paradox,

I'm sure there is measurable difference. I'm going to calbrate all video sources when I try this. It goes back to what a lot of people say or think; if sound or video is satisfying to your ears or eyes, that's what counts the most.

- I know that video direct to the TV is the best method. Again, it doesn't hurt to see what it looks like. Have you been satisfied with you video thru the 8500 for the most part?



For the most part I am very satisfide with it.

The only issue that I have with it is that each of my TV's componet inputs were calibrated seperatly. So now when I watch a DVD with it switched I am watching it via the componet input that was calibrated for my DVR.

So for this reason I will run the DVD directly to the componet it was calibrated for.

As for as all other inputs they look great.

I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my new SR9300, to be delivered Friday, which will replace the Onkyo 777TX. Hopefully it will be a great improvement working my Klipsch Reference-3 speakers.

Suggestions will be welcomed.

Dallas, TX

I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my new SR9300, to be delivered Friday, which will replace the Onkyo 777TX. Hopefully it will be a great improvement working my Klipsch Reference-3 speakers.

Suggestions will be welcomed.

Dallas, TX

Wow, I didnt know that was even out yet. Did you have it on preorder? What is retail MSRP on it?

The new flagship Marantz is the SR9600 which is just starting to ship.

[QUOTE=Kapolei01]

So now when I watch a DVD with it switched I am watching it via the componet input that was calibrated for my DVR.

So for this reason I will run the DVD directly to the componet it was calibrated for.

As for as all other inputs they look great.

Paradox,

What about the receiver's component video processing? Can a person not calibrate each of the component inputs that the different devices are hooked up to?

- Wouldn't the single component out from the receiver to the TV serve as a transcoded video signal only (or video pass through?).

- I'm not sure myself; I'm not doubting you; rather, I'm asking for clarification.

- I read a lot about TV displays, DVD player performance on "Secrets of High Fidelity" and so far but not too many folks seem to be using their receiver's video inputs as much as direct to the TV. Either that or I just don't remember reading about it.

- Again, I've read so many audio & video articles, I can't remember the details of them all--a constant learning experience.

Is it possible to bi-amp my NHT ST4 via the 8400? I wrote to Marantz and they said Bi-amping on the SR8400 would be possible by using the "B" speaker outputs as a second source of power for your front speakers. Your surround outputs would not work correctly in that situation.

On the 7.1 input, there is no bass management.

[QUOTE=Paradox-SJ]

Paradox,

What about the receiver's component video processing? Can a person not calibrate each of the component inputs that the different devices are hooked up to?

- Wouldn't the single component out from the receiver to the TV serve as a transcoded video signal only (or video pass through?).

- I'm not sure myself; I'm not doubting you; rather, I'm asking for clarification.

- I read a lot about TV displays, DVD player performance on "Secrets of High Fidelity" and so far but not too many folks seem to be using their receiver's video inputs as much as direct to the TV. Either that or I just don't remember reading about it.

- Again, I've read so many audio & video articles, I can't remember the details of them all--a constant learning experience.


The component inputs are not assignable nor can they be calibrated from what I have discovered.

I am not sure what transcoded video is.

I am sure that all the component inputs do is video pass through/switching with a bandwidth of 100mhzi believe. This was one of the main reason I selected this unit as it has 4 component inputs and 1 DVI input

some interesting discussion going on. let me change the topic :p

wut is the price difference b/w 7400 and denon 3805? i was initially going for 3805 but it wasnt available at that time, the salesman gave me 7400 for some time while denon was not available. but now ive started to like it. he was giving me both the recievers for the same price( $833).

i still have some room in my budget and after reading a lot and liking the traits of marantz after listening i want to step up to 8400 or 8500. if 7400 is retailed a little lesser than denon 3805 i can persuade the salesman to reduce the price of 7400 and so tat i can add some more amount to get 8500. saying tat may seem a lil odd(persuading a salesman) but i managed to get all the cables, interconnect and speaker stands for free.

the salesman was arranging a 3805 but ill ask him to arrange marantz(8400 or 8500) instead. coz i do feel the need of some more power and features of higher models.

i kinda made a mistake when i was auditioning the systems. at first auditioned denon 2105 and yamaha 1400 with a parasound A23 amp. i liked denon since i found yammy a lil bright but yammy was detailed but i prefered the sound of denon at tat time. but then when it came to summing the price of the whole system, the salesman said tat he made a lil mistake and he didnt add the price of the sub(servo 15). thats where i had to drop the amp and took home marantz. i really liked the sound of marantz.

the wattage differnce b/w 8400 and 7400 just 5 watts per channel, but since i havent heard 8400 i need to wud it make a differnce in sound??


one more thing : the specs of 7400 frm marantz US website say > "Video Up-conversion with TBC" << wut actually does that mean, is it upconversion of progressive signal or S-video to component ?? ,, and i didnt get wut TBC means.

[QUOTE=Kapolei01]


The component inputs are not assignable nor can they be calibrated from what I have discovered.

I am not sure what transcoded video is.

I am sure that all the component inputs do is video pass through/switching with a bandwidth of 100mhzi believe. This was one of the main reason I selected this unit as it has 4 component inputs and 1 DVI input

Well If, you seem happy with your video processing through your receiver, I might give it a try. It would have been nice if the 8400 had at least 3 component in but I'm not going to complain given the fact that I was one of the fortunate UBID winners.

Transcoded video is often used to convert video formats and converting a media file or object from one format to another. Not quite the right choice of words when I asked the question, I guess. Thank for your inputs, Paradox.

Guys,

I'm so impressed with PLIIX now that I don't think I'll be missing Logic 7 afterall. CSII isn't bad either. Although I'm disgusted by the format war between SACD and DVD-Audio (I decided not to invest my money in either); I do enjoy multi-channel music so PLIIX, PLII, and CSII will fit the bill nicely.

Fraoch,

I think I'm going to go back and calibrate my Velodyne sub to 72db like you did. I have it calibrated at 75db like the rest of my speakers but I can barely turn it past 1. It is about 2 ft from the front wall of my living room, 2 ft from the sides (concrete walls)

Nauman,

"Line Memory and Time Based Correction eliminate the artifacts that sometimes mar reproduction on today’s in-demand DLP, LCD, and plasma monitors." Quoted from a decription of the SR-8400/7500/8500 feature set.

- Someone posted a longer explanation on this forum (if you do a search) you should be able to find out more on this. I do know that it doesn't affect CRT/rear-projections sets as much (if at all) as it does the newer technologies; DLP, LCD, etc.

the wattage differnce b/w 8400 and 7400 just 5 watts per channel, but since i havent heard 8400 i need to wud it make a differnce in sound??

Hi, Nauman & all,

I've read many posts in other forums state that the main difference between 7400 and 8400 is the torroidal transformer in the 8400, which purportedly provides a lower noise floor and better sound quality. I don't know if anyone has ever tested the two units to determine if the difference is audible. I don't think there are any other differences, but you can view the specs on the Marantz website and compare.

After I bought the 7400, I sort of wish I had spent a few hundred USD more for the 8400, but I'm happy w/ the 7400 and also too lazy to unplug everything, pull it out, and schlep it back to the dealer to trade it in.

Doug

Hi, Nauman & all,

I've read many posts in other forums state that the main difference between 7400 and 8400 is the torroidal transformer in the 8400, which purportedly provides a lower noise floor and better sound quality. I don't know if anyone has ever tested the two units to determine if the difference is audible. I don't think there are any other differences, but you can view the specs on the Marantz website and compare.

After I bought the 7400, I sort of wish I had spent a few hundred USD more for the 8400, but I'm happy w/ the 7400 and also too lazy to unplug everything, pull it out, and schlep it back to the dealer to trade it in.

Doug

Doug,

It's okay. It's called a disease! :) LOL... Seriously though. I just bought the
SR-8400 and I already wonder if I should have spent the extra bucks for the new 7500 or 8500. However, I don't want to mortgage my children's future or lose my marriage so the 8400 will have to suffice.

- I don't know if you saw my post (#52) on page 2 but I included a PDF file from a European HT mag review on the SR-7400 which was awarded a best buy award from the reviewer.

- It tested at 130W, 2-channels driven, 100w, 5-channels driven at 1KHz. Not the full frequency range (20Hz - 20KHz) but Marantz at least attempts to be honest and states that their receivers will attain at least 70% of their rated output, all channels driven (across the full frequency range).

- I hate reading a review on a receiver that claims 7X130 watts then actually puts out only 5 or 7 X 50 watts or so, all channels driven or worse, at 1KHz! HT equipment, especially receivers, are expensive as it is! Don't worry, the SR-7400 is a fine piece of equipment. :)

I'm considering the SR8500, but I cannot tell by looking at the online manual if the receiver upconverts the signal to either DVI or component video?

I want to avoid the problem I have with my SR-19. All video input has to be at the same level of input, so I have several composite video to S-video convertors.

Does anyone have an information on this?

I'm considering the SR8500, but I cannot tell by looking at the online manual if the receiver upconverts the signal to either DVI or component video?

I want to avoid the problem I have with my SR-19. All video input has to be at the same level of input, so I have several composite video to S-video convertors.

Does anyone have an information on this?


The SR8500 will "upconvert" composite and Svideo to the component out output.

I cant comment on what kind of job it does as I do not have any svideo or composite devices.

The DVI only does DVI no upconversion at of any kind.

Help Please...
I'm trying to determine if my SR8400 is defective.....
Can someone with an 8400 or 7400 check and see if your subwoofer plays while in Dolby Pro Logic II or DTS Neo with these settings:

All speakers set to LARGE and Bass Mix set to BOTH

I'm getting the sub to play in stereo and CSII but not any of the other listening modes without dedicated LFE...any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Gene

Help Please...
I'm trying to determine if my SR8400 is defective.....
Can someone with an 8400 or 7400 check and see if your subwoofer plays while in Dolby Pro Logic II or DTS Neo with these settings:

All speakers set to LARGE and Bass Mix set to BOTH

I'm getting the sub to play in stereo and CSII but not any of the other listening modes without dedicated LFE...any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Gene

Howdy, geneylim.
No, you must have at least one set of speakers (L-R, Center, and/or Surrounds) set to Small or nothing goes to the sub for those matrix options. I found out the hard way. I was a little disappointed, because my previous low-budget Sony receiver would send signal to the subs even w/ Large speaker settings. Strange...and another example of our favorite whipping boy - the Marantz manual, because it's not mentioned there.

I only use the matrices occasionally when watching TV, and I got tired of having to press the Direct button when watching a DVD because I didn't want the low frequencies redirected, so I changed my speaker settings back to large.

Doug

Thanks Doug,
I was getting freaked out for nothing.....
It is too bad it doesn't work that way though :mad: !

i want to give more power to my fronts and center channel with my marantz 7400.
i have the following 5.1 setup.

L/R .paradigm studio 20's v.3
C. CC-570 v.3
Sr/Sl . adp-170 v.2
sub. servo 15.

biwiring or biamping ? and how to achieve both.

im still considerin biwirin the fronts to speaker B terminals cos i read an article on biwiring and biamping which says it would leave cleaner and tighter bass for sub.

i have set my center to +2 db level but can i biamp it to one of the back surrounds terminals??

thanks,. so far ive learned a lot .

[QUOTE=Leaper1998]I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my new SR9300, to be delivered Friday, which will replace the Onkyo 777TX. Hopefully it will be a great improvement working my Klipsch Reference-3 speakers.

Okay, it is all wired and working now. I can definitely tell a difference in the sound (more mellow, less sharp). In fact, this was confirmed by measuring the output at various frequencies using Scheffields test CD and a Radio Shack meter. I have an Audio Control Bijou 5-Channel, 1/3 octave equalizer between the pre-out and amp-in of the receiver. I previously had the lower frequencies boosted and some highs decreased when using the Onkyo 777. I now have nearly all frequency bands totally flat.

I do find the RC3200 remote complex. I am still trying to get the Tivo, DVD player & TV on/off programmed properly. I find the volume control on the SR9300 to be sluggish, as if it does not see the IR signal except intermittently. All other functions seem to be fine from the remote. I programmed the volume buttons on the Tivo remote and they have the same delay or non-read IR signal. Only after repeated button pressing will it change the volume by one step.

I won't be able to play with the system again until next weekend but I hope to finish tweaking the set-up then.

Is the Avia a decent disk to use to setup ref level from the 8500?

I've read different levet on here that people use such as 80db at 0.

Is it what ever sounds go to me or is there a standard?

Anybody?

Paradox, I have Avia but haven't used it to set levels w/ my 7400, except: the other day, I tried to use it to set the SW levels. Strangely, Avia was sending the SW test signals to the mains and not the sub. I definitely have the sub turned on in both the player and the 7400, so I can't figure out what might be the problem. I've never used Avia to set up audio before, so if anybody else has any idea, I'd love to have it.

Thanks,
Doug

Howdy, geneylim.
No, you must have at least one set of speakers (L-R, Center, and/or Surrounds) set to Small or nothing goes to the sub for those matrix options. I found out the hard way. I was a little disappointed, because my previous low-budget Sony receiver would send signal to the subs even w/ Large speaker settings. Strange...and another example of our favorite whipping boy - the Marantz manual, because it's not mentioned there.

I only use the matrices occasionally when watching TV, and I got tired of having to press the Direct button when watching a DVD because I didn't want the low frequencies redirected, so I changed my speaker settings back to large.

Doug

Hey, I'm quoting myself! Yesterday, I played around with this some more. I discovered that the CS II matrices will send signal to the sub even if speakers are set to large. I didn't have much time to listen and see if I liked what CS II sounds like, but I will report back after I have.

What is CS II? Is it a proprietary Marantz scheme? Has anyone else used it to decode analog TV sound?

Doug

Edit: Oops, I see that geneylim originally wrote that he found it works for CS II.

Is the Avia a decent disk to use to setup ref level from the 8500?

I've read different levet on here that people use such as 80db at 0.

Is it what ever sounds go to me or is there a standard?

I have Avia but did not use that with setting up my 8500. Instead I used Chesky "The Ultimate DVD Surround Sampler & 5.1 Set-Up Disc". This (along with a SPL meter) worked well in configuring the 7.1 chan. analog inputs.

I posted this message before but have not had a good answer. Once in a while, when I turn my SR-7400 on, it does a rapid clicking noise before turning on. Usually, it only clicks once when first turned on. Any ideas on what the problem would be before I unplug about 50 wires and bring it in to be looked at?

I posted this message before but have not had a good answer. Once in a while, when I turn my SR-7400 on, it does a rapid clicking noise before turning on. Usually, it only clicks once when first turned on. Any ideas on what the problem would be before I unplug about 50 wires and bring it in to be looked at?


Is this a "new or different" clicking sound that is different from the usual clicks the Marantz recievers make when they turn on?

Is this a "new or different" clicking sound that is different from the usual clicks the Marantz recievers make when they turn on?
> It's the same exact sound.

On page 20 of the SR8500 pdf under Bass Mix it states that "this setting only has affect during playback of PCM or analog stereo sources AND when the front L/R are set to large and the subwoofer is set to YES."

So does this mean that if you front L/R are set to small and you are listening to a PCM or analog stereo source that the LFE channel will not recieve a signal?

On page 20 of the SR8500 pdf under Bass Mix it states that "this setting only has affect during playback of PCM or analog stereo sources AND when the front L/R are set to large and the subwoofer is set to YES."

So does this mean that if you front L/R are set to small and you are listening to a PCM or analog stereo source that the LFE channel will not recieve a signal?

I don't think this setting affects LFE at all. Don't forget: LFE is the .1 channel specifically encoded in some Digital surround mixes (e.g. DD 5.1, DTS 5.1). The LFE only goes to the sub, unless you don't have a sub and the receiver then redirects the LFE into the L/R along w/ the regular bass frequencies.

This setting apparently affects low bass received from a stereo signal that would normally only go to the L/R. When you set the receiver to Stereo (not Direct) or CS II, it will send the low bass signal to both the L/R and the sub. It will not affect Direct, Dolby PL II, DTS, etc.

Doug

What is CS II? Is it a proprietary Marantz scheme? Has anyone else used it to decode analog TV sound?

CSII is not proprietary to Marantz. I'm not sure what other receiver manufacturers use it, but my M-Audio Revolution 7.1 (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Revolution71-main.html) has it as well. CSII is a product of SRS Labs (http://www.srslabs.com/) - they also provide the TruSurround (http://www.srslabs.com/ConsumerTechMultichannel.asp#TS) mode used when you plug in headphones. Their site indicates that Kenwood receivers use CSII also.

I have used it on analog TV once or twice, mostly the Mono mode as that's the only mono mode there is in the receiver, but for most analog TV viewing you can't beat Dolby Pro-Logic IIx. If the source is mono (very rare these days) then CSII Mono mode, as the matrix decoding formats will place the sound in the centre speaker alone. It should be noted this is normal for a matrix decoding format encountering a mono signal.

Glad to see a Marantz thread started.

I am an owner of a SR 7400 and thought I would share my experience so far.

First the good.

I concur with most other people that the Marantz has a wonderful sound and if you listen closely, would concur that it has a warm sound but not night and day different than my previous receiver, the Yamaha 2095.

I purchased a refurbished unit from accessories4less and their service is excellent and when i had a probelm, they were very responsive. When I had to send my unit in for repairs, they advised me where to send and volunteered to provide me a copy of my purchase invoice if i needed it. In addition, the repair facilty was very fast in repairing the unit and were cooperative in responding in a professional way on my second unit problem by agreeing to pay shipping the second time.

Now the bad news. This is my first Marantz and in my many years of purchasing hi-fi equipment, the first reciver I have ever had a problem with and now I have had two in less than 6 months. The first problem was that i was not getting any sound. No matter what source I fed the receiver, it would show on the FL screen that it was analog then the speaker configuration screen would dissappear. When i got the unit back and set up, after some doing, I got the sound out of all speakers but no FL screen no matter what I did.
When I contacted the repair facility, they assured me it was working when it left them so it must have been done in shipping and informed me that i would have to pay shipping again. When i complained, they referred me to someone else who immediately made arragnements to have it picked up the next day at their expense. The turn around time was quick and I anticipate this repair to be fast. I will post my findings when it is returned again.

Welcome, Daffy. I'm sorry to hear about your problems. Let us know how it turns out. I haven't had a single problem w/ my 7400.

Could the problem be the Display Mode (p. 26 of the manual)? If the unit was set to Auto Display off or Display Off, that could be why you don't see anything on the FL screen. I'm sure you tried this setting, but just thought I try to help.

Doug

CSII is not proprietary to Marantz. I'm not sure what other receiver manufacturers use it, but my M-Audio Revolution 7.1 (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Revolution71-main.html) has it as well. CSII is a product of SRS Labs (http://www.srslabs.com/) - they also provide the TruSurround (http://www.srslabs.com/ConsumerTechMultichannel.asp#TS) mode used when you plug in headphones. Their site indicates that Kenwood receivers use CSII also.

The new Yamaha RXV-4600 will also feature the CSII format

I have used it on analog TV once or twice, mostly the Mono mode as that's the only mono mode there is in the receiver, but for most analog TV viewing you can't beat Dolby Pro-Logic IIx. If the source is mono (very rare these days) then CSII Mono mode, as the matrix decoding formats will place the sound in the centre speaker alone. It should be noted this is normal for a matrix decoding format encountering a mono signal.

My experience with CSII Mono is different. A PCM source (e.g. DirecTV) when played back in CSII mono mode appears to output the same content in all channels except the subwoofer (5.1 setup on SR8500). However, I find CSII cinema best for listening to this kind of audio source (i.e. DirecTV), especially with the added SRS Dialog and TrueBass parameters.

I find CSII implementation in the Marantz to be much more tolerable and subtle than the Logic7 implementation in a previous HK I had, which would always default to "Logic7 Music" mode when channel hopping.

My experience with CSII Mono is different. A PCM source (e.g. DirecTV) when played back in CSII mono mode appears to output the same content in all channels except the subwoofer (5.1 setup on SR8500). However, I find CSII cinema best for listening to this kind of audio source (i.e. DirecTV), especially with the added SRS Dialog and TrueBass parameters.

Yes, CSII mono seems (to me) to output the same sound from all speakers. This is kind of disappointing. The Denon mono movie mode is much nicer, putting the same signal in the fronts and a delayed signal in the surrounds.

It's still better than mono sound with any matrix decoding mode (which puts it in the centre only).

I found CSII Cinema used way too much of the surrounds. It was very distracting. PLIIx is much, much more subtle. Too subtle sometimes, it's hard to tell that the surrounds are doing anything at all, but they are.

From what I read, if you have the display off, you can still see the symbol "display off". Secondly, I set receiver at the factory default setting and still no display. Hopefully I will get it back this week. I am already developing withdrawl pains.

Now the bad news. This is my first Marantz and in my many years of purchasing hi-fi equipment, the first reciver I have ever had a problem with and now I have had two in less than 6 months. The first problem was that i was not getting any sound. No matter what source I fed the receiver, it would show on the FL screen that it was analog then the speaker configuration screen would dissappear. When i got the unit back and set up, after some doing, I got the sound out of all speakers but no FL screen no matter what I did.
When I contacted the repair facility, they assured me it was working when it left them so it must have been done in shipping and informed me that i would have to pay shipping again. When i complained, they referred me to someone else who immediately made arragnements to have it picked up the next day at their expense. The turn around time was quick and I anticipate this repair to be fast. I will post my findings when it is returned again.

This sounds like the unit was set to "AT" or "ANA" for the input and tried to find an analog signal. The speaker diagram disappearing for analog sources is normal.

Regarding the display, I'll do some tests tonight.

If it was set at AT or ANA once I rest unit at factory default it should have corrected itself shouldn't it?

Hmm, yeah.:(

Same with the display.

If it was set at AT or ANA once I rest unit at factory default it should have corrected itself shouldn't it?

Just want to see if anybody else has feedback or tips? I love my 8400!

Pat

Just want to see if anybody else has feedback or tips? I love my 8400!

Pat

The problem is, these units are fairly issue free.:)

So nothing extra so far for me at least.

The only thing I wish is that the V-OFF setting would remember its state when you shut the unit off. No big deal, it doesn't seem to have an audible effect for me, I just like the idea.

The problem is, these units are fairly issue free.:)

So nothing extra so far for me at least.

The only thing I wish is that the V-OFF setting would remember its state when you shut the unit off. No big deal, it doesn't seem to have an audible effect for me, I just like the idea.

That's funny? I don't use the V-Off feature but it remembers every other setting, I think?

Once I figured it out, I really love that remote control. The only thing is that the Mouse funtion to move the cursor cannot be programmed into this, so I need to keep two remotes instead of 1. It's better than 7!

Have fun!

Pat

I really love that remote control.

It's miles better than any included receiver remote I've ever bought, and it does replace all my other remotes.

The only thing I don't like is more my fault - I keep forgetting what mode it's in, try to type in a TV channel and end up changing a setting on the receiver.:p

It's miles better than any included receiver remote I've ever bought, and it does replace all my other remotes.

It handles everything pretty well for me, except the DirecTV remote. Some of the menu functions don't work, but I can live w/ it.

The only thing I don't like is more my fault - I keep forgetting what mode it's in, try to type in a TV channel and end up changing a setting on the receiver.:p

Ha! I'm glad I'm not the only one who does that!

Doug

Ha! I'm glad I'm not the only one who does that!


:D My favorite channels are in the 4X range, nearly every time I have it on I end up activating the 7.1 channel input, and to get out if it you have to select 7.1 input again, then (because it reverts to Stereo with Autosurround mode) you have to press the double-D button to get back to PLIIx mode.

It's hard to see the LCD text I guess, and I don't use the backlighting as much as I should.

:D My favorite channels are in the 4X range, nearly every time I have it on I end up activating the 7.1 channel input, and to get out if it you have to select 7.1 input again, then (because it reverts to Stereo with Autosurround mode) you have to press the double-D button to get back to PLIIx mode.

It's hard to see the LCD text I guess, and I don't use the backlighting as much as I should.

At my advanced age, it's nearly impossible for me to read the buttons, unless it's broad daylight or I hold the remote under a lamp. I memorized the buttons I use most.

I have a similar problem w/ the 7.1 button. I switch to another device, for example DVD, then realize 7.1 is on, and push 4. Of course, the 7.1 only switches on and off when you've selected Amp as the device, so I end up changing something else, have to change it back, select Amp, then press 4 to turn off 7.1. On previous receivers, the 7.1 (or 5.1) button is dedicated to that, and you could switch it on or off regardless of which device you selected on the remote. This seems to be a small design flaw on the Marantz remote.

Doug

I have a URC-100 (yeah, the $50 one!) that works very well overall.
all of my components are behind closed doors and the RF-> IR is sweet :D

anyone else using one of their remotes for the 8400?

what codes works best?

I think I used 028 but many functions still had to be 'learned' manually

audiologist

I have a similar problem w/ the 7.1 button. I switch to another device, for example DVD, then realize 7.1 is on, and push 4. Of course, the 7.1 only switches on and off when you've selected Amp as the device, so I end up changing something else, have to change it back, select Amp, then press 4 to turn off 7.1. On previous receivers, the 7.1 (or 5.1) button is dedicated to that, and you could switch it on or off regardless of which device you selected on the remote. This seems to be a small design flaw on the Marantz remote.


Ah, so it's like the receiver treats 7.1 as a seperate device.

What gets me is the Autosurround mode. It's useless - it picks the most inappropriate setting for 2-channel analog sources. Always stereo, never PLIIx.

right,
7.1 is basically just another input. Why they didn't treat it that way on the panel and remote is beyond me.

Seth

Playing it in multi-channel stereo mode today while I cleaned the house reminded me of something.

Does multi-channel stereo mode sound QUIETER than other modes to you?

On my Denon receivers, multi-channel stereo was the loudest mode of them all. It applied just about equal power to all speakers, making for a rather potent mix that was ideal for listening around the house.

However I find the Marantz still biases the sound towards the front. I put my ear to the speakers and the rears are definitely the quietest, followed by the sides and finally the fronts. There does not appear to be equal power to all speakers.

The total effect is much, much quieter than PLIIx Music. If you switch between the two PLIIx Music seems MUCH louder.

Yeah, don't know what Marantz engineers were thinking. My main issues with my SR8500 are:

- Multichannel stereo with unbalanced channel information
- 4 Component inputs that are unassignable
- No subwoofer in pure-direct mode (PD internally configures main speakers as large). Since I have to configure my speakers as small and they are not designed to be used as large setup that is a problem.
- No user adjustable parameters of DTS Neo6 modes
- Built-in test tones only play back at nominal reference volume level
- In a 5.1 setup, inability to employ unused surround back channels in the 7.1 input mode as an additional auxiliary input (only main L/R can be used as AUX2)
- Can't rename input display but can name tuner selections
- OSD shows graphical representation of volume while panel display shows numeric value
- Could have fitted all of the front panel i/o under the flap

- Built-in test tones only play back at nominal reference volume level

What do you mean by this? Yes, it attenuates the sound by 10 dB so you won't get blown out of your seat, but this is normal. Just turn your volume up to 0 and calibrate to 75 dB to get reference, 85 dB at 0. Very easy.

What do you mean by this? Yes, it attenuates the sound by 10 dB so you won't get blown out of your seat, but this is normal. Just turn your volume up to 0 and calibrate to 75 dB to get reference, 85 dB at 0. Very easy.

Froach:

I'm not saying there is anything technically wrong with this feature and I do know how to use the test tones. What I meant was that for this feature, Marantz is unlike previous brands I have used, where you can start playing the test tones without the volume been fixed at the 0dB level on the volume control but rather allowing the user gradually increase the main output volume to the desired reference level. With the SR8500 (my first Marantz AVR) I just had to get used to avoiding entry into the TEST menu late at night, in case I accidentally select one of the channels.

Froach:

I'm not saying there is anything technically wrong with this feature and I do know how to use the test tones. What I meant was that for this feature, Marantz is unlike previous brands I have used, where you can start playing the test tones without the volume been fixed at the 0dB level on the volume control but rather allowing the user gradually increase the main output volume to the desired reference level. With the SR8500 (my first Marantz AVR) I just had to get used to avoiding entry into the TEST menu late at night, in case I accidentally select one of the channels.

Hmm, my 7400 doesn't operate this way. It starts out at the volume you previously set, and since it's been reduced by 10 dB it's very quiet. You can then adjust the volume to suit.

It's too bad they changed it for the x500s, I'd consider that to be a downgrade.

I hope this is not a fault with my SR8500 and this is a change in the design approach for the SRx500 series.

So to recap my experience:
NOTE: I initially used MRAC to automatically configure the levels. The subsequent manual method using the SPL meter and measuring the speaker distance yielded almost exactly the same results (5.1 setup).

The output volume would typically be set to my normal listening at about -35dB.
When using the manual method to set channel levels for the configured speakers, you enter the speaker setup menu
On the 4th page, after configuring speaker size and distance/delay, after toggling the auto/manual option, you would proceed to select the channel/speaker for which you want to set the level
When I select a channel, the test tone that is emitted measures exactly 84db SPL on my L+R speakers and 87dB from the matching center speaker. The SL+SR needed to be boosted by +2dB to match the fronts when they were leveled at reference. In both auto and manual setup, the subwoofer level needed some tweeking in order to get good 7.1 chan input performance for SA-CD/DVD-Audio
When the test tone is playing, adjusting the main volume has no effect.


There is however an alternative way to set channel levels per-input on-the-fly without using the built-in test tones. This works well and is more useful when using a setup disk containing test tones. I believe this was discussed in the earlier part of this thread.

When the test tone is playing, adjusting the main volume has no effect.


Yes, that's definitely a change from the x400 series, and not a good one IMHO.

I wonder if the non-MCAC 4500 and 5500 exhibit the same "feature"?

I discovered a nice feature with the 7400 remote last night. The batteries were dying, so I trudged upstairs and pulled out the manual, anticipating having the re-enter all the device codes once I'd replaced the batteries. Imagine my joy when the manually stated that the memory is non-volatile (?) and the memory settings are saved. After replacing the batteries and re-setting the time, sure enough, all the device settings are still there.

This might not be such a revelation to others, but it's the first remote I've had that has this feature.

Doug

I discovered a nice feature with the 7400 remote last night. The batteries were dying, so I trudged upstairs and pulled out the manual, anticipating having the re-enter all the device codes once I'd replaced the batteries. Imagine my joy when the manually stated that the memory is non-volatile (?) and the memory settings are saved. After replacing the batteries and re-setting the time, sure enough, all the device settings are still there.

This might not be such a revelation to others, but it's the first remote I've had that has this feature.

Doug

It would have to be this way. I can't see a $130 remote not remembering the settings. My $10 clock radio remembers the time when the power goes out :D

On a side note, I love the remote now, once I got used to having to press the amp button, DVD button, etc. twice before I can use it!

Pat

It would have to be this way. I can't see a $130 remote not remembering the settings. My $10 clock radio remembers the time when the power goes out :D

Umm...that's because it has a battery in it, I think. ;)

On a side note, I love the remote now, once I got used to having to press the amp button, DVD button, etc. twice before I can use it!

Pat

I have noticed this, too, but only when I just turn the receiver on, or when I've just changed the input. For instance, when the amp shows "CD" and then displays "AUTO," if I push a button on the remote in the middle of these displays, nothing happens. But if I wait a second until after the receiver finishes its display routine, then the button works. Weird design...

Doug

I have noticed this, too, but only when I just turn the receiver on, or when I've just changed the input. For instance, when the amp shows "CD" and then displays "AUTO," if I push a button on the remote in the middle of these displays, nothing happens. But if I wait a second until after the receiver finishes its display routine, then the button works. Weird design...

Doug

You have to remember that the processor has to take a short moment to recall the settings that are specific to the selected input so it may need to temporarily pause processing any other/new instructions. Some AVRs, like HK for example, seem to have a longer pause between input selection or surround mode changes.

You have to remember that the processor has to take a short moment to recall the settings that are specific to the selected input so it may need to temporarily pause processing any other/new instructions. Some AVRs, like HK for example, seem to have a longer pause between input selection or surround mode changes.

That makes sense, and it's a very tiny inconvenience that I can certainly live with.

Doug

This is a major gripe I have with a HK DPR1001 in one of the bedrooms. It has to recall settings per input and per surround mode (which is a good thing to have) but it is slow at/sometimes fail to lock onto a surround mode signal. It is a pain for Sat.TV channel hopping.

Umm...that's because it has a battery in it, I think. ;)


Doug

Just a joke :D Take care!

Pat

I just wish I had my 7400 back to play with. I had sent my unit back to the service center two weeks ago tomorrow. They indicated that they get units back to customers within 3 days. I called and they said they were just going to call me. It seems that upon arrival that it had sustained damage. I was told that I would have to pay for the repair if I did not insure it. When I explained that they had paid for shipping since it was not functioning properly when it was returned to me the first time. The response was it was still my responsibility since I obviously inadequately packed it when shipping. I informed customer service rep that I used the box and packing that the unit came to me in when I originally purchased it. After a pregnant pause, I assume she could not think of another reason I should pay for the repairs, she stated the manager would have to call me back tomorrow.

My love for Marantz is beginning to take a free fall. Will keep you all posted as the matter continues to unfold. Sure glad I still have my Yamaha 2095 as back up. It is 7 years old now and not the first bit of trouble.

Daffy, that's disheartening news. I'm bringing my SR7400 back to the store in a few days. My clicking problem has become a LOT worse. 50% of the time I turn the receiver on, it gets stuck "clicking" requiring a electrical plug pull.

AARGH!!!

Sorry to hear that!

My 8400 seems to be OK for now. No issues at all. I guess it's good I got one from an authorized dealer with a three year warranty :cool:

Pat

Daffy, that's disheartening news. I'm bringing my SR7400 back to the store in a few days. My clicking problem has become a LOT worse. 50% of the time I turn the receiver on, it gets stuck "clicking" requiring a electrical plug pull.

AARGH!!!

I have noticed that the clicking sounds from my SR8500, which I think are unmuted internal relay switches, are more apparent when you switch modes that requires differing speaker configurations (e.g. between speaker A/B or multi-speaker mode). It is also apparent when first turning on the system from standby. I never hear it at any other time. Maybe the x400 is different in which case you can ignore the rest of this post. Is it possible that a power supply cable may not be connected securely or a configuration for speaker setup may not be correct?

I have noticed that the clicking sounds from my SR8500, which I think are unmuted internal relay switches, are more apparent when you switch modes that requires differing speaker configurations (e.g. between speaker A/B or multi-speaker mode). It is also apparent when first turning on the system from standby.
> I usually don’t switch speaker configurations at all. When I first turn the receiver on, it is usually to the DVD player (Marantz DV-6400) or the D* HD Receiver. My default setting is DPLIIx or Auto, so nothing really changes. It simply won’t “boot up” when turned on. I can’t think of what the problem is.

Maybe the x400 is different in which case you can ignore the rest of this post. Is it possible that a power supply cable may not be connected securely or a configuration for speaker setup may not be correct?
> I double/triple/quadruple checked the cords and everything seems to be very secure. Everything is plugged into a Tripp-Lite Isobar.

The plot thickens re my SR7400 problems. I was told yesterday that Mgr would call today and today has come and gone. I called about 3:30 to Service Wide and was told I was being impatient. "They haven't forgotten me and would contact me".

I thought that I might get some timely response if I informed Marantz of my problems and concerns so e-mailed them from their web sight and got error message that my e-mail was undeliverable. I beleive there is going to be an e-bay sale of a receiver in my future if I ever get it back and I will go back to my tried and true Yamahas.

I thought that I might get some timely response if I informed Marantz of my problems and concerns so e-mailed them from their web sight and got error message that my e-mail was undeliverable. I beleive there is going to be an e-bay sale of a receiver in my future if I ever get it back and I will go back to my tried and true Yamahas.
> LOL. I did the same thing this morning and got the same exact undeliverable message, twice. I'm actually a little disappointed in this too. When I go shopping for a HDMI receiver in the next year...

I've been looking to replace my 18 year old Onkyo. At first I was looking at HTiB but have since been converted. I figure if this receiver is going to have to go 18 years also I could spend a little more money on it.

Tonight I found the Marantz SR7400 for $700. If I was going to spend that much should I be looking at newer equipment or is this a good machine for the money?

Thank you!

Tonight I found the Marantz SR7400 for $700. If I was going to spend that much should I be looking at newer equipment or is this a good machine for the money?

Thank you!

The only developments since the 7400 are the many auto-EQ and autosetup schemes. Every other technology and sound scheme is included, in particular Dolby Pro-Logic IIx.

Personally I would rather do setup myself. And with regards to EQ, bass frequencies will have a far greater impact on the sound, so you can put a Behringer 1124 or an Onix R-DES in the LFE line.

However $700 US seems rather steep...$500 would be a better deal. Keep in mind ubid sold its first batch of 8400s for $425 or so.

Personally, I wouldn't spend that much on any receiver that didn't have HDMI inputs... especially with the HD-DVD/BluRay players coming out shortly.

The only thing I wish is that the V-OFF setting would remember its state when you shut the unit off. No big deal, it doesn't seem to have an audible effect for me, I just like the idea.

For some reason, I remembered your post last night. I had assumed, because I set V-OFF in the setup menu, it was always off. I checked the manual & realized I should have seen V-MUTE (I think that's the wording) on the display, but it's not there. So, I switched it off using the remote. When I turned the receiver off, then later on again, the V-MUTE was off (meaning the video circuitry was switched on because the V-MUTE was turned off...umm...I think...is that a triple negative?). Now that's another thing I have to obsess over every time I use the receiver! And, I'll have to listen for a difference, during which my wife will tell me to stop fooling around leave the thing alone.

Doug

And, I'll have to listen for a difference, during which my wife will tell me to stop fooling around leave the thing alone.

I honestly can't hear any difference. It's more of a psychological/placebo thing, like really expensive cables, except it doesn't cost any more.:D

Actually, if it was a placebo like expensive cables, I *would* hear a difference.;)

Still, you are freeing up a few hundred mA or so by turning this circuitry off.

Personally, I wouldn't spend that much on any receiver that didn't have HDMI inputs... especially with the HD-DVD/BluRay players coming out shortly.

Why not? You can use the digital audio outs on the player and use the HDMI output directly to the TV, right? You wouldn't have the switching, but how big a deal is that to most people?

Pat

I honestly can't hear any difference. It's more of a psychological/placebo thing, like really expensive cables, except it doesn't cost any more.:D

Actually, if it was a placebo like expensive cables, I *would* hear a difference.;)

Still, you are freeing up a few hundred mA or so by turning this circuitry off.

But don't forget the added fun of pushing more buttons! Why else do we get these components with myriad features if we don't get to play around and push buttons?
;)
Doug

Why not? You can use the digital audio outs on the player and use the HDMI output directly to the TV, right? You wouldn't have the switching, but how big a deal is that to most people?
> That's the big question. Will they allow the high resolution audio formats to be output over toslink or coaxial?

I thought I should give you guys an update on the problems I had with my 7400 and more specifically Service Wide Technolgies.

When AC4l.com received a copy of my e-mail to Marantz, the owner, Mark Sabbarese, got involved immediately. Sent me two e-mails and asked me to call One, Mark informed me that he forwarded a copy of my e-mail to Marantz. 2 he spoke to the owner of Service Wide and he advised that it would be taken care of ASAP. The damage to the FL screen was done in shipping and they would have to get with UPS before shipping unit back to me.

Service Wide owner, John called me this morning and left me his cell # asking that I call. When I got to talk to him he readily admitted that they dropped the ball and now that they were aware of it they got the unit fixed immediately and are shipping it out today to me at no cost.

My feelings are that we all make mistakes on ocassions and in this case Service Wide did not attempt to make excuses and responded quickly to correct the error. As previous posts indicated the first repair was done in a very timely manner and it is obvious that the damage I experienced with the screen was not caused by Service Wide. As for AC4l.com, I could not be happier with a retailer and I would not hesitate to deal with them again and would go further to highly recommend them as an excellent source of Marantz products.

Daffy, can you PM me or list the email address given to you for Marantz? I would love to be able to send them an inquiry about my problem.

Personally, I wouldn't spend that much on any receiver that didn't have HDMI inputs... especially with the HD-DVD/BluRay players coming out shortly.
Couldn't you play that game every year and just never buy anything? I'm not buying now because THE NEXT BIG THING is right around the corner. I haven't bought a receiver in 18 years. THE NEXT BIG THING probably isn't my top priority.

right,
7.1 is basically just another input. Why they didn't treat it that way on the panel and remote is beyond me.

Seth

Agree, quite ennoying. Noticed the new SR-9600 inherits the same problem, although at least it has a separate ON and OFF command (remote only) so at least I'd be able to learn the codes into my Pronto.
Will probably order the 9600 next week from HK.

> That's the big question. Will they allow the high resolution audio formats to be output over toslink or coaxial?

Any engineers or electronics experts here that can comment on this? Does digital coax or toslink have the CAPABILITY to transport 7.1 audio? I realize that we don't know if makers will allow for that, but is it capable of doing this on the bandwith it supports?
Thanks,
Pat

Any engineers or electronics experts here that can comment on this? Does digital coax or toslink have the CAPABILITY to transport 7.1 audio? I realize that we don't know if makers will allow for that, but is it capable of doing this on the bandwith it supports?
Thanks,
Pat

I'm not an expert, but I believe S/PDIF as a format doesn't.

However, optical cable and coaxial cable, even Ethernet cable, has the data capability (bandwidth) in computer applications.

The leading theories are that DD+/DTS HD will be carried either by a new version of HDMI or 8-channel analog inputs a la SACD/DVD-A. Won't that be lovely.:rolleyes:

I'm not an expert, but I believe S/PDIF as a format doesn't.

However, optical cable and coaxial cable, even Ethernet cable, has the data capability (bandwidth) in computer applications.

The leading theories are that DD+/DTS HD will be carried either by a new version of HDMI or 8-channel analog inputs a la SACD/DVD-A. Won't that be lovely.:rolleyes:

OK. So 8 channel analog inputs meaning the 7.1 inputs on the 8400? So a firmware upgrade from Marantz and we should be good to go?

Pat

I thought I should give you guys an update on the problems I had with my 7400 and more specifically Service Wide Technolgies...

Daffy,
Thanks for letting us know about their exemplary service. It's a rarity these days! More importantly, let us know how it works when you get it. I hope your problems are solved and you can enjoy your Marantz.

Doug

if they wanted to be snazzy, they could inherit a firewire/usb style data transfer. Mind you the bandwidth is only 480mb/s.
But it's standard.
Now with SATA for HD's there is tremendous throughput which I'm sure is overkill for home audio, but it's a cheap and small solution.
Lastly is HDMI used for a different purpose.

Seth

OK. So 8 channel analog inputs meaning the 7.1 inputs on the 8400? So a firmware upgrade from Marantz and we should be good to go?

Pat

Not even a firmware update would be required...simply plug in the EXT. IN inputs and you're good to go.

Like an SACD/DVD-A player without iLink, the decoding and smarts would be in the player. The receiver would be acting like a preamp and amp.

This is all speculation at this point - the only thing for certain is that it won't be carried via conventional S/PDIF as it's not physically capable of transporting a 7.1 stream.

Not even a firmware update would be required...simply plug in the EXT. IN inputs and you're good to go.

Like an SACD/DVD-A player without iLink, the decoding and smarts would be in the player. The receiver would be acting like a preamp and amp.

This is all speculation at this point - the only thing for certain is that it won't be carried via conventional S/PDIF as it's not physically capable of transporting a 7.1 stream.

Thanks. That was my original question, and you answered it. Too bad, really:( It would be nice to continue the one cable audio thing, it just won't be that one coax.

Pat

Thanks. That was my original question, and you answered it. Too bad, really:( It would be nice to continue the one cable audio thing, it just won't be that one coax.

Pat

S/PDIF 2.0, I wonder?

The cable itself is physically capable of it, the protocol isn't.

Question about the SR7400. A friend has this receiver and wants to run two additional sets of speakers out of it, in addition to the 5 channels it will be driving in the main room. The receiver has both a set of pre - outs that I can run to an amp, and then a set of speakers to it, as well as two additional channels of amplification that can be used either in addition to the other five in the same room, or somewhere else entirely.

I'm a bit inexperienced w/multiroom setups and the manual isn't fully clear to me -- it looks as though with an additional amp, I can run two additional speaker sets out of this receiver -- am I missing something? And can I run the same source into both of these sets of speakers? Lastly, it looks like the volume is separately controllable for each, one using 'multi volume' and the other using 'mspkr vol' -- again, am I missing something?

Last question -- is there some kind of inline rheostat I can cut into speaker wire that modulates volume?

Thanks all, sorry for the long post.

I don't use the multiroom feature on my 7400, but I think you answered most of your own questions. If you only use 5 speakers in the main room, then you have two ways of powering two more zones of two speakers each:

- the multiroom preout
- the extra amps for the rear channels

There's also another way, the front speakers are in an A/B set. If the impedances of both speaker sets are 8 ohm or higher, you can power both simultaneously. If they are 4-ohm speakers, you have to power either one or the other.

I think (not entirely sure here) that the same source will be sent to all 4 zones. Some AVRs can route a seperate source to the multi-room outputs, I'm not sure if the 7400 can.

Note that the extra amps and the A/B speaker settings are entirely controlled by the 7400's tone and volume controls. The preout is not. In order to use the preout you either need a preamp with an amp or an integrated amp. You can't use a rheostat in the line, you need a preamp and amp.

(Crossposted from the other Marantz thread which I saw before this one)

1. Someone a few months ago was comparing the video bandwidth of the Denon vs the Marantz. The Denon list 100MHz but that is at -3db. The Marantz list them as 80MHz but at -1db. It is likely that the Marantz is better than the Denon when it comes to the frequencies of interest (< 80MHz).

2. I have an SR8400 picked up on ubid. I am feeding 9.1 speakers:
A 5.1 in the HT
A 2.0 in Living Room
A 2.0 in the Bedroom

The Bedroom will use the dual room powered output (Channels 6 and 7) on the 7.1. The Living room will be on Speaker B of the main 2.1 system.

However the speaker configs between A and B are very different.
A are Rocket Onix 750 Signature and have a Rocket UFW-10 to help.
B are Paradigm In-Ceiling SA-30 (2 driver).

The setup does not seem to allow different settings for Speaker A and B in the 2.1 configuration menu of the SR8400.

Any thoughts on how to set this system up so that I can switch between A and B without having to reprogram the 2.1 settings via the OSD everytime?

Bump!
Any thoughts on how to solve the mis-matching A/B dilemma?

Hopefully this is the last installment of my repair saga. I just received my 7400 back today. It would appear that it did not leave the repair facility when promised but in their defense, they did send it 2nd day air on Tuesday since Monday was a holiday so I can't be upset about that.

Upon receipt, I immediately noticed that it was packed in a different box that was packed better than the original packing. the unit looked brand new so I am sure that all the dust was removed. I hooked it up and immediately was relieved that the FL panel was functioning and it then proceeded to hook up everything. End result it is operating fine so I am a happy man. Listened to a portion of "Master and Commander" on my Axioms and it sounded great. Godson was here for the night so we watched Peter Pan and everything sounded fine. My hat is off to Service Wide for stepping up to the plate when they discovered their error and for all the help that AC4L.com.

Couldn't you play that game every year and just never buy anything? I'm not buying now because THE NEXT BIG THING is right around the corner. I haven't bought a receiver in 18 years. THE NEXT BIG THING probably isn't my top priority.
> You could play this game every year, but new connections aren't created every year. Especially ones that will be required for HD-DVD/BluRay playback. My post was simply my opinion on what I would do, especially already being a SR-7400 owner.

different subject,
my 8400 doesn't 'night mode' dts. Is this a marantz thing, or a dts thing.
At least I don't think it does.

Seth

different subject,
my 8400 doesn't 'night mode' dts. Is this a marantz thing, or a dts thing.
At least I don't think it does.

Seth

I think dynamic compression is only applicable to Dolby Digital? At least, my previous Denon receivers also couldn't apply "night mode" to DTS.

Guys,

If I'm not mistaken, some of the newer receivers (maybe the HK AVR-635?), the new Denon 5805, to name a couple, now have the ability to apply night mode (compression) while in DTS mode. That would be a nice feature to have since admittedly, I prefer DTS over DD. DPL-IIX mode has impressed me though and the more time I spend listening to my Marantz SR-8400, the more I think that it is really an outstanding receiver. Happy and impressed so far. :)

figured because i just did top gun 2 nights ago and pirates of the carr. last night both in dts and night mode didn't seem to do a thing although the receiver said it was 'on'. Strange, if it won't compress, why tell you it is?

Seth

figured because i just did top gun 2 nights ago and pirates of the carr. last night both in dts and night mode didn't seem to do a thing although the receiver said it was 'on'. Strange, if it won't compress, why tell you it is?

Seth

Yeah, that is kinda kooky.

Manual, page 23:

Selecting the Night Mode ON is effective in Dolby Digital only

It's one of those LCD buttons on the remote. AMP mode, page 3.

Sethwas,

You have the SR-8400 also right? If so, the SR-8400 isn't capable of applying night mode compression in DTS. Maybe the newer Marantz can but not the 7400/8400 series.

Sethwas,

You have the SR-8400 also right? If so, the SR-8400 isn't capable of applying night mode compression in DTS. Maybe the newer Marantz can but not the 7400/8400 series.

You got me curious so I looked at the manuals for the 7500 and 8500 but neither of them can apply dynamic compression to DTS either.

The notice is on page 25 of both manuals.

Fraoch,

That's what I figured because one of the first things I wanted to know about the 8400 was if it had the ability to apply night mode while in DTS mode. I was a little dissapointed but otherwise I'm happy so far. :D

i dont use night mode at all, ive listened in the night mode but i figured i like the full throttle thing much better. i mostly watch movies at late hours usually at -10 to -15dbs :D, love it.

in a small condo with 2 20-39pci's and no ceiling isolation you really need the night mode when watching after 10 p.m. :)

Seth

In the market for a new receiver, trying to decide between the 5500/7500 but would like to find an 8400. Does anyone know if their are going to be anymore on UBID, wish I had been looking then. The refurbished 8400's listed on AC4L.com are $700 and only carry a yr warranty. I do however like the additional inputs that the 7500 has..If anyone has any opinons on the above receivers please let me know. My current receiver is Denon 3200, my speakers are PSB image 4t. I've been looking at the Harmon Kardon line but I think I like the marantz better, any opions??? Thanks.

If you're asking which one is better, h/k or Marantz, on a Marantz thread, be aware that there may be some biased opinions.:D

The differences between the 7500/5500 and the 8400 are:

- 8400 toroidal transformer, 7500, 5500 EI
- 8400 copper-plated, shielded chassis
- 8400 HDCD decoder
- 8400 gold-plated connectors :rolleyes: (it IS listed very prominently for some reason)
- 7500 105W/ch, 8400 110W/ch (yeah, I know, but with a toroidal transformer to back them up, those may be 110 "more honest" Watts on the 8400)
- 7500 THX Select certified, if that's important to you (not on 5500)
- 7500 M.C.A.C. (auto setup, room EQ) (not on 5500)
- 7500, 5500 lip-synch delay
- 7500, 5500 Dolby Headphone

The 7500 and 8400 remotes have different part numbers, yet look the same according to the manual. The 5500's is completely different.

The 7500 also has biamping capability.

Regarding more 8400s on ubid, it's been a while since any have gone through. However Marantz's website still lists the 8400 as a current product, although that may not be a good indication.

I have a question primarily for Froach or any Marantz AVR experts.

I own a SR8500 (my first Marantz AVR after using Yamaha RX-Z1 and other Yamahas) and have used the MRAC feature with pleasing results. However, I am of the opinion that MRAC, as designed in the SR8500, does some modicum of audio EQ internally in the processor but does not allow the user to configure its properties. Is this the case or does MRAC in the pre-9600 AVRs lack any form of room EQ?

I have a question primarily for Froach or any Marantz AVR experts.

I own a SR8500 (my first Marantz AVR after using Yamaha RX-Z1 and other Yamahas) and have used the MRAC feature with pleasing results. However, I am of the opinion that MRAC, as designed in the SR8500, does some modicum of audio EQ internally in the processor but does not allow the user to configure its properties. Is this the case or does MRAC in the pre-9600 AVRs lack any form of room EQ?

Hmm, that's a tough one.

Marantz seems to be purposefully unclear on this. Even the name, "Marantz Room Acoustic Calibration", does not specifically imply EQ. The website features list and spec sheet are obscure as well. Both state something similar to:

Marantz Room Acoustic Calibration (M.R.A.C.), uses an internal signal generator and a separate calibrated microphone to bring you the best audible performance in any room.

which doesn't tell us much. This quote is from the spec sheet, see here (http://us.marantz.com/downloads/SR8500/SR8500_SPECS.pdf). The manual makes no mention at all if EQ is used either, just speaker connectivity, levels, distances and size.

The evidence seems to indicate no EQ, but we don't have proof. However if it did parametric EQ you'd think they'd allow you to adjust it or even just enable/disable it. They would also shout it from the rooftops I'd imagine.

Yes, I agree totally with your assessment. Hopefully they will <dreem> offer a firmware upgrade to the x500 line to provide for this feature </dream>.

I just had a look at the SR9600 owner's manual and it has substancial details on configuration of the PEQ and the various sound enhancement features that were implemented in that model. I guess the advanced M.R.A.C. comes at a high price and may have put the SR8500 in an undesirably higer price bracket compared to its competition, had they offered the full EQ functionally in it.

It would be great if they could give us some of this in a future upgrade to the 7500/8500 but alas I think it will be in the form of a new product model with a much higher markup (probably competing with the Yamaha RXV-4600 and Denon AVR-4806 or their future replacements...).

Maybe yes, maybe no?

I doubt if it would be included in a firmware upgrade. I believe it requires a fair amount of DSP resources, and if the DSP isn't designed to accomodate parametric EQ from the beginning it can't be added later.

However, parametric EQ is trickling downmarket with other manufacturers. So we could see parametric EQ in future Marantz receivers at lower cost.

If you really want room EQ, the biggest bang for your buck can be had in the bass frequencies - you may want to consider adding either an Onix R-DES or a Behringer 1124 with Room EQ Wizard (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.mulcahy/roomeq/index.html) (free) software.

Of course, this isn't addressing the root problem - the room. Treating first reflections and adding bass traps in the corners would be cheaper and more effective than EQ. However it can get very complicated, at least I think so.

Hi Guys

Forgive me for diluting the higher level Marantz with a lower level question, but I thought this thread is where the expertise is--and I badly need your help.

I have a Marantz SR-5500, just got it installed and it drives Monitor Audio speakers in 7.1 configuration. It also switches my component video inputs for my DVD and DVR to the projector. Seems like a nice setup, adequate for what I need.

However, I have a couple basic questions.

1. I too have heard the quiet dialogue and overpowering sound effects/soundtrack in movies, and have taken the advice to up the center channel a few levels. Any other thoughts here? CSII setting has a SRS Dialog level option to help pop out dialogue supposedly. Is this a good thing to use? When not in CSII mode, does this still work?

2. Should I use the 7.1 channel inputs direct from DVD player instead of the digital coax input? Does this make a lot of difference?

3. Any problems with the using the Marantz for switching component video and not going direct to projector?

4. I have large R/L speakers, and it is set to large. They sometimes provide rather loud bass sound in my opinion, even when the Sub volume has been independently lowered with its own volume contol. The seem to pop out in an overpowering fashion at times. Does the Sub channel setting drive any of the R/L sub at all? Should I drop them to Small setting and lose some of the bass it offers?

5. I too heard minimal rear surround sound when set on auto. After consultation, I changed it to DD-Pro Logic II-MV and it seems to force the surround information over all channels and I hear the entire surround. What is the setting for DVD input? There are tons of settings here, Pure Direct, DTS NEO 6: Cinema, EX...which is best to use for DVD? I want to hear and utilize the full 7.1 surround that I have installed.

6. Do any of these problems or solutions conflict with each other? Meaning for example, 7.1 channel inputs may not work with certain surround mode settings adequately.

Lots of questions, but I imagine simple answers from you guys.

Thanks

Hi Guys

Forgive me for diluting the higher level Marantz with a lower level question, but I thought this thread is where the expertise is--and I badly need your help.

I have a Marantz SR-5500, just got it installed and it drives Monitor Audio speakers in 7.1 configuration. It also switches my component video inputs for my DVD and DVR to the projector. Seems like a nice setup, adequate for what I need.

Sure, no problem. In fact I'm surprised the 4500 and 5500 aren't more popular than they are.

No elitism here, I have a 7400 which was about the same price as a 5500.;)


1. I too have heard the quiet dialogue and overpowering sound effects/soundtrack in movies, and have taken the advice to up the center channel a few levels. Any other thoughts here? CSII setting has a SRS Dialog level option to help pop out dialogue supposedly. Is this a good thing to use? When not in CSII mode, does this still work?

Any changes you make to CSII dialogue will only be applied to CSII Cinema mode. Personally I don't like CSII Cinema nearly as much as Dolby Pro-Logic IIx, it's just way too hot in the surrounds. Distracting.


2. Should I use the 7.1 channel inputs direct from DVD player instead of the digital coax input? Does this make a lot of difference?

It would work, but I can't see how it would make a difference.

Your rear channels would never work, because currently DVD players do not decode 7.1. Also bass management, tone controls, etc. can't be applied to the analog 7.1 inputs.

Finally, the DACs in the 5500 may or may not be better than the DACs in your DVD player. If they are better, you'll lose out on the sound quality increase.


3. Any problems with the using the Marantz for switching component video and not going direct to projector?

I'll let someone else handle this one as all my video goes right to my TV, but if you don't have to do it (i.e. if you have only one component video source), why do it?


4. I have large R/L speakers, and it is set to large. They sometimes provide rather loud bass sound in my opinion, even when the Sub volume has been independently lowered with its own volume contol. The seem to pop out in an overpowering fashion at times. Does the Sub channel setting drive any of the R/L sub at all? Should I drop them to Small setting and lose some of the bass it offers?

Sub channel setting affects only the sub channel, but it sounds like you've found one of the problems with the bass mix BOTH setting, namely boomy bass. Experiment around with setting your speakers to small, see if it helps.


5. I too heard minimal rear surround sound when set on auto. After consultation, I changed it to DD-Pro Logic II-MV and it seems to force the surround information over all channels and I hear the entire surround. What is the setting for DVD input? There are tons of settings here, Pure Direct, DTS NEO 6: Cinema, EX...which is best to use for DVD? I want to hear and utilize the full 7.1 surround that I have installed.

If you want to hear 7.1 sound with a DVD, there's only one option, DD+PLIIx. I'm not sure which button it is on your remote. On mine I have a "Dolby double-D" button which cycles between DOLBY D and DD+PLIIx. On yours, press the SURROUND MODE button.

Note that you should be able to "overlay" PLIIx on top of Dolby Digital 5.1, it's a required function of the Dolby Pro-Logic IIx decoder. Your manual says this on page 2, but on page 24 it says:

Pro Logic IIx mode is available for a 2ch input signal which is encoded in Dolby Digital or PCM format.

On page 26, the chart indicates that when the signal is Dolby Digital 5.1, the decoding is in DD 5.1, but when it's Dolby Digital 2.0, the decoding is Dolby Pro-Logic IIx.:confused:

This seems to imply that you cannot process Dolby Digital 5.1 signals using Dolby Pro-Logic IIx, which means you can't listen to DVDs in 7.1. This shouldn't be?

Experiment around - you should be able to decode DD 5.1 in PLIIx. My display reads "DD+PLIIx" when I do this.


6. Do any of these problems or solutions conflict with each other? Meaning for example, 7.1 channel inputs may not work with certain surround mode settings adequately.

7.1 inputs do not work with any surround mode settings.

The 7500 also has biamping capability. The 8400 and 5500 would as well, but it isn't outlined in the manual - however, if you set the SB outputs up as multi-room speakers, it would work.

Can you throw some more light on this statement? I have been meaning to bi-amp my fronts, but don't know how. Thanks!

EDIT: I have a 8400

John, I would like to respond to your specific questions based on my experience with the SR8500 for the last 7 months. See inline below. I should say though, that I am using a 5.1 setup.


1. I too have heard the quiet dialogue and overpowering sound effects/soundtrack in movies, and have taken the advice to up the center channel a few levels. Any other thoughts here? CSII setting has a SRS Dialog level option to help pop out dialogue supposedly. Is this a good thing to use? When not in CSII mode, does this still work?

The dialog level enhancer in CSII appears to steer the sound from the center channel towards the rear/front speakers. The higher the level the more you hear dialog from the rear. This can be undesirable depending on your taste. CSII dialog parameters applys only to the "CSII Cinema" DSP mode.

2. Should I use the 7.1 channel inputs direct from DVD player instead of the digital coax input? Does this make a lot of difference?

7.1 chan inputs are used typically for transmitting high-resolution audio (DVD-Audio or SACD) from DVD players that decodes these formats natively. It is also possible to transmit Dolby Digital and DTS over these connections but it is not necessary to do so in your case, since the Marantz is equipped with the ability to process these latter formats. So to answer your question, it depends on where you want to do the digital to analog conversion - in the DVD player or in the Marantz processor.

3. Any problems with the using the Marantz for switching component video and not going direct to projector?

This depends on your individual situation. Using the video pathways in a receiver is mainly for convenience (e.g. there are less inputs on your projector). I have not noticed any degradation of component video signal when going directly to my DLP or through the Marantz.

4. I have large R/L speakers, and it is set to large. They sometimes provide rather loud bass sound in my opinion, even when the Sub volume has been independently lowered with its own volume contol. The seem to pop out in an overpowering fashion at times. Does the Sub channel setting drive any of the R/L sub at all? Should I drop them to Small setting and lose some of the bass it offers?

I am assuming you used a sound level meter to calibrate the speakers and subwoofer in your system so will only comment on the subwoofer setup. It is possible that you are mixing both LFE and re-directed bass from the speakers that are set to small to both your front L+R and the sub, therefore increasing the audible bass output significantly.

5. I too heard minimal rear surround sound when set on auto. After consultation, I changed it to DD-Pro Logic II-MV and it seems to force the surround information over all channels and I hear the entire surround. What is the setting for DVD input? There are tons of settings here, Pure Direct, DTS NEO 6: Cinema, EX...which is best to use for DVD? I want to hear and utilize the full 7.1 surround that I have installed.

I have found that when allowing auto setting for the surround mode, any PCM audio (typically DirecTV non DD channels) will be in stereo. I.e. no information in the center and rear speakers. You can select one of the matrixed surround modes based on your preference. The processor will remember/recall the selected surround mode independently for each input. So if you select "DPL II MV" for DVD it will default to that mode unless the DVD soundtrack is DD 5.1 or DTS.

In my SR8500 Pure Direct mode bypasses all bass management (tone controls) and omits sub woofer usage.

6. Do any of these problems or solutions conflict with each other? Meaning for example, 7.1 channel inputs may not work with certain surround mode settings adequately.


As I indicated earlier, 7.1 channel input is used to steer output from an out-board processor (such as a DVD player equipped with its own signal processor and outputs analog audio over the 7.1 channel RCA outputs). This mode does not undergo any processing on the Marantz. Although it is possible to configure the channel levels of the 7.1 input on the Marantz separately to that of all the other inputs.

I recently purchased the Marantz SR8400 receiver. Last night I attempted to connect my NHT SW10 subwoofer. (The Subwoofer worked great with my last Denon receiver which was replaced with my new Marantz). Now, I am getting almost no signal to my subwoofer. I tried the following set ups: Setting the fronts and sides to large and setting the Bass Mix to "Both" and when that did not work, I tried setting the fronts and sides to small. By the way, YES, the subwoofer is set to "Yes". My NHT is a high powered amplified sub. When I turn the volume all the way up, I am barely hear the base. (When I turn the Subwoofer setting off on the Marantz menu, all sound from the sub stops). I tried different cables to no avail. Also, when I do the test tones from the set up menu, I receive no sound from the Sub at all unless I turn the volume "all the way up". I also tried adding +10 to the decibil level, but it makes no real difference. Do you think my Marantz is defective? What tests should I perform? I don't have another sub to test my unit with. Any suggestions will be most appreciated.

I recently purchased the Marantz SR8400 receiver. Last night I attempted to connect my NHT SW10 subwoofer. (The Subwoofer worked great with my last Denon receiver which was replaced with my new Marantz). Now, I am getting almost no signal to my subwoofer. I tried the following set ups: Setting the fronts and sides to large and setting the Bass Mix to "Both" and when that did not work, I tried setting the fronts and sides to small. By the way, YES, the subwoofer is set to "Yes". My NHT is a high powered amplified sub. When I turn the volume all the way up, I am barely hear the base. (When I turn the Subwoofer setting off on the Marantz menu, all sound from the sub stops). I tried different cables to no avail. Also, when I do the test tones from the set up menu, I receive no sound from the Sub at all unless I turn the volume "all the way up". I also tried adding +10 to the decibil level, but it makes no real difference. Do you think my Marantz is defective? What tests should I perform? I don't have another sub to test my unit with. Any suggestions will be most appreciated.

I have the 8500, which is think is similar in the sub/bass management department. Before I can offer any assistance I have a few questions:
What surround mode did you use to test the sound?
Is yours a 7.1 setup?
Is your sub connected to the SW channel in the pre-out section at the rear of the Marantz?
What cross-over setting are you using in the 8400 and if your sub has a crossover setting, what is that set to?

What surround mode did you use to test the sound?

I cycled through all of the surround modes using a variety of sources.

Is yours a 7.1 setup?

No, I have s 5.1 setup.


Is your sub connected to the SW channel in the pre-out section at the rear of the Marantz?

Yes, my sub is connect to the SW channell in the pre-out section. I checked this many times and compared against the diagram in the manual too.

What cross-over setting are you using in the 8400 and if your sub has a crossover setting, what is that set to?

I tried the three cross over settings available on the setup menu and then for each setting, slowly turned my cross over slider on my sub to see if there was any improvement at any setting. There was no discernable difference.

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Ok. So your setup is similar to my own, except I have all speakers set to small and the cross-over on my sub set to the maximum (160 Hz). This means that my sub's crossover is ignored, since I set the Marantz to crossover at 100 Hz.

If your sub is set to "auto-on", try setting it to ON (i.e. always hot) and set all speakers to small (except surround back set to off). Turn the volume on your sub to the half-way position and the sub crossover to off or to the maximum if that's how it works. Set the receiver crossover to 100 Hz and Sub to Yes. With small speakers, the bass output should default to MIX.

With the above configuration, try the setup test tone for the sub and also listen to some stereo material (e.g. a CD or the radio/tuner). If you are not able to hear the bass then there is possibly a problem with the sub, the connection or Marantz. By the way, was your 8400 brand new and from a reputable dealer?

cmexec,
I have the same exact problem and already contacted Marantz.

When the fronts are set to small, you don't have an option of "Mix" or "Both".

It appears as though, the reciever is not sending a full signal to the sub for some reason.

My goal is to listen to music in "Stereo" mode with my sub supplementing the bass (as I did with my last two recievers). The Tech said because a CD doesn't have a seperate LFE channel, it won't be as pronounced as it is in Movies. Something about that doesn't fly with me. My previous Denon sent the full stereo signal to the sub, and the sub crossover (or the one in the reciever) took care of that.

The Tech suggested I set the speakers to small, and set the internal crossover to 100Hz.

My system sounds great in Dolby Digital and DTS, but regular CD music in stereo doesn't output through the sub. I have to turn it up to like -5 or 0 to even notice the sub is on....

I think its something wrong in the design of the reciever...

Is there a way to measure the signal strength of a DVD vs. a CD?

The only other thing I thought to do was connect the subwoofer via the speaker level outputs of "Main B" and play them both at the same time?

buchinmj, my last comments were in response to a problem jdcohen mentioned. In contrast, I am happy with sub/bass output in my setup (SR8500). This goes for stereo, matrixed surround and discrete 5.1 channel input from a Yamaha DVD-S1500.

My understanding of the Mix/Both setting is that when you have large front speakers (e.g those that may have built-in powered subwoofers), you may chose to direct LFE and/or sound redirected from small speakers to a sub discretely or LFE+bass to both the sub and the large speakers. In systems that use small front speakers, one would typically not steer low frequencies or LFE to the small speakers so the unalterable setting of MIX possibly indicates that a mix of LFE and low bass is passed to the powered subwoofer. Although I could be wrong... According to the owner's manual, when you use the "Pure Direct" mode, the speakers are internally set to large and sub is set to on. However, PD mode does not engage the sub in the 8500.

I did have to boost the output on my subwoofer in order to improve SACD/DVD-Audio from my DVD player over the 7.1 channel inputs but this was due to a limitation in the DVD player rather than the Marantz.

cmexec,
So you are saying you get the same output from you sub on stereo music, as you do with movies?

Again, I'm going to have to scour the manual and make sure I'm not doing something wrong. Perhaps I will try setting the fronts to large (I set them to small per the instructions of the tech at Marantz), and changing the bass mix to Sub only. See if that directs more signal to the sub....

I'm really confused right now as to why I can't get good output from my sub with Stereo Music.

Here is how someone else interpreted what the tech was saying to me:

"I think he was saying sources that aren't recorded with a dedicated LFE .1 channel (like 2 channel audio) won't be sent to the sub out."

If that is what the tech meant, that seems kind of silly to me....

cmexec,
So you are saying you get the same output from you sub on stereo music, as you do with movies?

Again, I'm going to have to scour the manual and make sure I'm not doing something wrong. Perhaps I will try setting the fronts to large (I set them to small per the instructions of the tech at Marantz), and changing the bass mix to Sub only. See if that directs more signal to the sub....

I'm really confused right now as to why I can't get good output from my sub with Stereo Music.

Here is how someone else interpreted what the tech was saying to me:

"I think he was saying sources that aren't recorded with a dedicated LFE .1 channel (like 2 channel audio) won't be sent to the sub out."

If that is what the tech meant, that seems kind of silly to me....

buchinmj,

I am not saying that I get the same output from the sub in stereo music as in movies as technically that would not be possible, since some movies has a dedicated LFE signal. However, I am saying that the audiable output from my 8500 includes information that goes to my subwoofer when playing any source through the 8500. When there is material that has LFE, I do hear the boosted output to the subwoofer.

Note though, that I set all speakers to small and sub on and therefore have all LFE and frequencies below 100 Hz been routed to the subwoofer. Due to the "magic" of audio as perceived by the ear, with my setup, the bass is not directional (i.e. it appears as if it is not coming from the sub but rather from the main speakers).

So in detail my setup is:

OrbAudio Super8 Sub: Volume @ 12 o'clock, crossover max (160 Hz), allways on, phase 180 degrees.

Marantz SR8500: All speakers=small, Sub=yes, SB=none (I have 5.1). LFE=0db (other LFE options are "none" or "-10dB").

After running the M.R.A.C. setup, subwoofer output was set to -8dB on the SR8500. Note I had to have the sub output volume that high in order to get decent sub output when using the 7.1 channel input for SACD and DVD-Audio so this is handled by the marantz by the -8dB attenuation of sub output.

I performed a manual audio setup using a setup disc and an analog SPL meter and the settings were almost exactly as M.R.A.C. found. The only differences were , having to set subwoofer out to -5dB instead of -8dB from M.R.A.C.

I should also add that the reason I have my sup "always-on" is because I was not happy with the way the Marantz processor seem to be sending such a weak signal to the sub that its auto-off will be engaged so frequently (this may be your problem?). I toyed with using a trigger to turn the sub on when the receiver turns on but did not like the audible thump produced each time so decided to leave it on all the time.

Can you throw some more light on this statement? I have been meaning to bi-amp my fronts, but don't know how. Thanks!

EDIT: I have a 8400

Ooops, sorry about this. Looks like I goofed up here.

No, you can't biamp with the 7400/8400. I thought you could by setting the SB speakers to NONE, then using the SB speaker terminals in conjunction with the multi-room feature.

But that wouldn't work, because it's not the same signal. The multi-room output is stereo only. It's not processed at all, so the sound wouldn't be exactly the same.

Hey I'm looking for a reference to serial commands for the SR7500 receiver. Basically, I want to use girder plugins to change inputs and modes on the receiver using the serial link. Some searching has come up with no information, but I could have missed something.

Thanks!

Hey I'm looking for a reference to serial commands for the SR7500 receiver. Basically, I want to use girder plugins to change inputs and modes on the receiver using the serial link. Some searching has come up with no information, but I could have missed something.

Thanks!

Let us know if you find one...while I'm not an HTPC fan I would love to use one of the old PCs I have lying around for advanced/automated control and MP3/FLAC playbac.

Let us know if you find one...while I'm not an HTPC fan I would love to use one of the old PCs I have lying around for advanced/automated control and MP3/FLAC playbac.

Well, if I no one on the forum has any information, I will contact my home theater shop and ask them for the info. They're really good and I've bought enough from them recently :) I just don't like bothering them too much... and I really can only get there on Saturdays, so it's not convenient.

Well, if I no one on the forum has any information, I will contact my home theater shop and ask them for the info. They're really good and I've bought enough from them recently :) I just don't like bothering them too much... and I really can only get there on Saturdays, so it's not convenient.

If you are not already a member, I suggest you join the Marantz Owner's Circle. You can sign up at http://us.marantz.com. Supposedly Marantz support staff do provide resources to this area that are not in any other forum.

buchinmj, my last comments were in response to a problem jdcohen mentioned. In contrast, I am happy with sub/bass output in my setup (SR8500). This goes for stereo, matrixed surround and discrete 5.1 channel input from a Yamaha DVD-S1500.

My understanding of the Mix/Both setting is that when you have large front speakers (e.g those that may have built-in powered subwoofers), you may chose to direct LFE and/or sound redirected from small speakers to a sub discretely or LFE+bass to both the sub and the large speakers. In systems that use small front speakers, one would typically not steer low frequencies or LFE to the small speakers so the unalterable setting of MIX possibly indicates that a mix of LFE and low bass is passed to the powered subwoofer. Although I could be wrong... According to the owner's manual, when you use the "Pure Direct" mode, the speakers are internally set to large and sub is set to on. However, PD mode does not engage the sub in the 8500.

I did have to boost the output on my subwoofer in order to improve SACD/DVD-Audio from my DVD player over the 7.1 channel inputs but this was due to a limitation in the DVD player rather than the Marantz.


OK. I have a question... Here's the background

I have a Marantz 8500 Receiver and a Marantz 7600 DVD player. Optical connection to 8500 for playing DVD's and also have individual AudioQuest cabling for all analog signals going from the 7600 into the 8500.

When I play an SACD I only get audio if set to Direct. OK that's fine but I get no standalone sub-woofer even though there is a connection for it from the 7600 to the 8500.

Speakers are set to large (They are DefTechs with subs in them). I also have a DefTech SuperCube Reference. Sub is set to ON but not mix mode.

Any hints on what I would need to do to get output from the SuperCube when I am playing SACD's?

EDIT: I've got a programmable remote so I can set up complex macros when I switch to SACD output.

OK. I have a question... Here's the background

I have a Marantz 8500 Receiver and a Marantz 7600 DVD player. Optical connection to 8500 for playing DVD's and also have individual AudioQuest cabling for all analog signals going from the 7600 into the 8500.

When I play an SACD I only get audio if set to Direct. OK that's fine but I get no standalone sub-woofer even though there is a connection for it from the 7600 to the 8500.

Speakers are set to large (They are DefTechs with subs in them). I also have a DefTech SuperCube Reference. Sub is set to ON but not mix mode.

Any hints on what I would need to do to get output from the SuperCube when I am playing SACD's?

EDIT: I've got a programmable remote so I can set up complex macros when I switch to SACD output.

I'm not too familiar with the 7600 DVD player but you do know that unless you are using a digital audio interface that is approved to transmit SACD (e.g. ilink) you will only be able to get full high-rez SACD over the 7.1 channel inputs to the SR8500 or a down-rez version over the RCA stereo input.

As for the bass/sub output problem, I assume that there is some bass management/redirection for SACD playback in the 7600? If so what are the settings? In the SR8500, if you are using the 7.1 channel inputs for multi-channel music playback, you can tweek the subwoofer output specifically for this.

You are using large speakers so a different setup to mine. What cross-over are you using in the SR8500? Have you tried 80Hz (the lowest freq.) and disabled any crossover on the SuperCube?

Finally, when you say "only get audio if set to direct" are you referring to the Pure Direct DSP mode on the SR8500 or a SACD Direct mode in the DVD player? On my DVD player (Yamaha DVD-S1500), a "SACD Direct" parameter setting bypasses the bass management on the DVD player completely. Note that the SR8500 disengages the subwoofer when using the Pure Direct mode. So if you are getting no output from your sub when the SR8500 is in Pure Direct mode, it is working correctly. However, depending on how your mains are configured, you should get the low frequencies in the SACD material from the large mains.

As for the bass/sub output problem, I assume that there is some bass management/redirection for SACD playback in the 7600? If so what are the settings? In the SR8500, if you are using the 7.1 channel inputs for multi-channel music playback, you can tweek the subwoofer output specifically for this.

There is no true bass management on the 7600 other than on/off and distance.


You are using large speakers so a different setup to mine. What cross-over are you using in the SR8500? Have you tried 80Hz (the lowest freq.) and disabled any crossover on the SuperCube?

Crossover is set to 80HZ

Finally, when you say "only get audio if set to direct" are you referring to the Pure Direct DSP mode on the SR8500 or a SACD Direct mode in the DVD player? On my DVD player (Yamaha DVD-S1500), a "SACD Direct" parameter setting bypasses the bass management on the DVD player completely. Note that the SR8500 disengages the subwoofer when using the Pure Direct mode. So if you are getting no output from your sub when the SR8500 is in Pure Direct mode, it is working correctly. However, depending on how your mains are configured, you should get the low frequencies in the SACD material from the large mains.

Well that hits the nail on the head in terms of re-stating my problem. Unless I set it to Pure Direct, I get no audio output

I do get sub output from the large mains.

There must be something I'm doing wrong in terms of routing or setup on the 8500.... Well I'm at the office and I can't go look until I get home. I'll start with reviewing the Input Setup screen again.

There must be something I'm doing wrong in terms of routing or setup on the 8500.... Well I'm at the office and I can't go look until I get home. I'll start with reviewing the Input Setup screen again.

I must confess. My problem was pure Pilot Error. The macro I had in the remote was going to the DVD setup so the only way I got audio was by selecting Pure Direct. Once I corrected it and selected analog input, all was good

:HeadSlap Smilie Goes Here:

Well I went and listend to the 5500 but I was unable to get it to play DD5.1 +DDIIX, the manual states that it is only available for 2ch sources. The salesman of course was clueless and stated he wasn't sure. I've emailed marantz and they said it was possibly but that they werent sure how you did it? That was pretty funny response from the company I thought...so my question, is there anybody out there that has a 5500/7500 that are using it for 7.1 with DD5.1 + DDIIX? I'm getting close to making a decision and it looks like I'm leaning towards the pioneer 1015 or the H/k 435. Thanks.

Well I went and listend to the 5500 but I was unable to get it to play DD5.1 +DDIIX, the manual states that it is only available for 2ch sources. The salesman of course was clueless and stated he wasn't sure. I've emailed marantz and they said it was possibly but that they werent sure how you did it? That was pretty funny response from the company I thought...so my question, is there anybody out there that has a 5500/7500 that are using it for 7.1 with DD5.1 + DDIIX? I'm getting close to making a decision and it looks like I'm leaning towards the pioneer 1015 or the H/k 435. Thanks.

That's crazy, it just shouldn't be! That's the whole point of PLIIx, that you can apply it to 5.1 digital sources. Otherwise, what's the point of having 7 speakers?

And all the competition can. If indeed this is the case, then Marantz really has a significant disadvantage.

In your speaker setup, do you have 1 or 2 speakers in your surround back speaker options? If you only specified 5 speakers, the PLIIx decoder will run as a PLII decoder and would not be applicable to 5.1 sources, there'd be no point.

On my 7400, all you do is press the "Dolby Double-D" button on the remote to cycle between "DOLBY D" and "DD+PLIIx" on the display when playing back DD 5.1 sources. You can't do this to DTS tracks though, it flashes "INCOMPATIBLE". On the 5500, I'd assume the SURROUND MODE button would do the same.

If my 7400 can do it, surely the 7500 can do it, and by association the 5500. It is, after all, a standard feature of the PLIIx deocder, see here (http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic_IIx.html):

Pro Logic IIx is the first and only technology to expand any existing stereo- or 5.1-channel audio for a 6.1- or 7.1- channel playback, creating a seamless, natural surround soundfield that immerses you in the entertainment experience.

(emphasis by me)

Fraoch and cmexec

I want to thank you for your extensive replies to my 5500 questions. I appreciate you taking the time and offering your expertise. I will employ your suggestions and look for some favorable results!

Thanks again guys. Thanks for sharing.

Fraoch and cmexec

I want to thank you for your extensive replies to my 5500 questions. I appreciate you taking the time and offering your expertise. I will employ your suggestions and look for some favorable results!

Thanks again guys. Thanks for sharing.

By all means let us know if you get DD+PLIIx working on the 5500. It sure should work.

it works on mine

it works on mine

Could you elaborate for bishopt and John Fo.?

Is it selected by the SURROUND MODE button and does DD+PLIIx appears on the display?

Yeah, I am using the DD+PLIIx MV (movie) setting. The 5500 has three variations on this particular setting. Movie, Music, and Game. It seems to work just fine, as suggested. It is supposed to be able handle the 6.1 and 7.1 for the setup I have, and it seems to do that fine.

Yeah the surround button on the face panel selects them. It will show up on the display, with MV, etc after it for each of the three PLIIx settings.

Same as with my 7400 then.

All's right with the world.:)

Well, I upgraded from the 7400 to the 8400 with some help from AVS Forum member ekb.:)

It's more of a lateral upgrade, done mostly for cost reasons (this was one of those uBid units) and opportunity.

There seems to be a slight sound quality increase and for some reason 2-channel PCM is ~5 dB louder, even after calibration.

But at any rate my new 8400 seems happy & healthy in its new home.

I'll be taking my old 7400 in for minor warranty work before putting it on the market, probably through Canuck Audio Mart unless I get a PM from someone here.

Fraoch,
Is it possible you could elaborate on the differences in a little more detail?. I would appreciate that. I started a thread yesterday asking for comments on diffs between 7500 and 8500 but no takers. I'm sure that someone on this forum has experienced both the 7000 and 8000 family.

Fraoch,
Is it possible you could elaborate on the differences in a little more detail?. I would appreciate that. I started a thread yesterday asking for comments on diffs between 7500 and 8500 but no takers. I'm sure that someone on this forum has experienced both the 7000 and 8000 family.

Differences, 7400 to 8400:

- different amps, although only a 5 W/ch power increase
- 8400, toroidal power supply, 7400, EI power supply (this may increase the power supplied with all channels powered beyond 5 W/ch)
- 8400, copper-plated chassis for EM shielding
- 8400, gold-plated jacks (I don't care, but it is a difference)
- 8400, HDCD decoder

And that's it. Same DSP, same DACs, same remote, same functions.

I'll take a look at your 7500/8500 thread but I'm not as familiar with those units.

Fraoch,

Thanks, and picked up your comments on the other thread.

Well, I upgraded from the 7400 to the 8400 with some help from AVS Forum member ekb.:)

Congrats, Fraoch. I considered upgrading to the 8400 soon after buying the 7400 last fall, but I talked myself out of it. I've got a lot of other upgrades I want to get through first, then will maybe add an amp and use the 7400 as a pre-pro.

There seems to be a slight sound quality increase...

(Plugging fingers in ears) No, I don't want to hear that! La-La-La! I can't hear you!
;)
Doug

(Plugging fingers in ears) No, I don't want to hear that! La-La-La! I can't hear you!
;)
Doug

:p

I can't be sure, it may very well be the placebo effect. My mind says it should be better, thus it sounds better.

It's not a dramatic difference, let's put it that way.:)

I am not certain if I am posting correctly (first time) so I apologize if I am busting in on unrelated thread.

I am getting ready to purchase the Marantz 7400 & wanted to know if I could use zone 2 speaker terminals to bi-amp. Those terminals are labeled surround back but the manual states that they be used as zone 2 with fixed or variable volume (not confused with zone 2 outs intended for remote amp). I have little interest in HT & could just about get by with a stereo receiver but it would be nice to go 5.1 and get points form the wife. I do not have room for 7.1 (nor care) but would love to bi- wire if the variable volume control of those terminals allows.

Can I bi-amp or not??

Thank you for your time & thank you for this site

C.

I am not certain if I am posting correctly (first time) so I apologize if I am busting in on unrelated thread.

I am getting ready to purchase the Marantz 7400 & wanted to know if I could use zone 2 speaker terminals to bi-wire. Those terminals are labeled surround back but the manual states that they be used as zone 2 with fixed or variable volume (not confused with zone 2 outs intended for remote amp). I have little interest in HT & could just about get by with a stereo receiver but it would be nice to go 5.1 and get points form the wife. I do not have room for 7.1 (nor care) but would love to bi- wire if the variable volume control of those terminals allows.

Can I bi-wire or not??

Thank you for your time & thank you for this site

C.

Initially I thought you could bi-amp with the 7400, but it turns out you can't.

In order to bi-amp, the signal from each amp section has to be identical. This would only be possible in direct mode. Even stereo mode would have bass management applied to the main L/R and not to the Zone 2 L/R.

Any other mode could be vastly different.

I was somewhat surprised to have my new SR9600 delivered today... in a absolutely massive honking box! Wasn't expecting it until later this week.

The SR9600 will be replacing an SR-18EX that I've been quite happy with up until now. Alas that model no longer has enough inputs... plus it's missing all the recent sound formats and doesn't have rear center amps. Or so I keep telling myself! :-)

Only problem: inside that big honking box was a big honking receiver... and I'm going to need a new cabinet just to hold its depth!

Cool, Daniel I have been waiting for a review on that 9600. Set it up and let me know what you think. Can you list your other equipment?

What'll be hooked up...

Sony KF-60XBR800 TV
Sony DHG-HDD500 OTA HD DVR
Scientific Atlanta 8300HD Cable HD DVR
Sony DVP-NS999ES DVD
JVC SR-V10U VCR
Pansat 2500A DSS
Sony TC-WE625 Tape

Speakers are generic big tower speakers that I've been meaning to ugrade for a little while now... they're pretty good, but not great. The problem is getting something else that fits the space. They each have a 250w sub with two 10" drivers, which is ideal as I have no room for a separate sub (really, there's no place). Hoping to find something neat at CEDIA or the next CES...

Whats the word, Daniel?

Well that's the problem: it doesn't fit anywhere yet... so all I've been able to do is determine that it's got a great front panel display, and there's a lot of relays that click when you turn in on or off.

Yeah, not too helpful I know! ;-)

Only problem: inside that big honking box was a big honking receiver... and I'm going to need a new cabinet just to hold its depth!

That's no problem at all :D I used a rotozip and cut a hole in the back of my cabinet the size of my SR-8400. It looks great and gives a little added ventilation that these units need anyway. The wires have room and are not bent by jamming it into a cabinet that is too small.

Pat

I may have to do that - at least I won't be damaging anything important. I'm sort of ashamed to say that I've been using an Ikea stand ever since getting my RPTV. You've heard the jokes about people spending a lot of money on electronics then putting it in the cheapest thing possible!

At least this isn't my perminant solution, I'm designing custom cabinets to hold everything, but haven't got around to getting them made. At any rate, the current thing just barely holds the depth of my SR-18EX, but I know from specs the SR9600 is about 1.5" deeper.

I may have to do that - at least I won't be damaging anything important. I'm sort of ashamed to say that I've been using an Ikea stand ever since getting my RPTV. You've heard the jokes about people spending a lot of money on electronics then putting it in the cheapest thing possible!

Ehh, why not? Spend money on what will improve the sound.:)

As long as the stand holds it at an acceptable height, keeps the components separated and the wife is happy, life is good.

I should get it hooked up this weekend.

I've determined that the problem isn't the depth of the cabinet - I measure 25.5" available - but the location of the hole leading from the right deeper side to the left shallower side (Ikea's odd idea of how to brace the unit). When pushing the receiver back it's hitting the wires going through the hole despite having 4-5" more space behind the hole.

Looking down from the top:

. .-----------.
| O |
|-----------| ######### |
| X ######### |
| | ## AMP ## |
| | ######### |
| | ######### |
'-----------------------'
FRONT

So I need to move the hole from the X where it is to the "O".

At any rate I'm really looking forward to setting it up.

8400 users,


Anyone useing analog inputs for cd? I tried the other day, and keep getting the peak indicater to come on, even at mid volumes. Anyone else, it doesn't seem right.

I'm just in the processing wiring up the SR9600 and I had a few comments...

1) Video upconversion to component works, but doesn't go to HDMI and seems to dislike weird things such as fast-forwarding and pause (at least according to the manual). And it does really strange things to the on-screen menu on my VCR.

2) Overall OSD and menu system is about the same as my SR-18EX. Which basically means turn off the OSD and use the menus once then forget about them.

3) I love the versatility on handling HDMI and component inputs, and componet quality seems fantastic with HDTV. HDMI switching also works, however my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD does not want to play hardball going through the receiver - complains about lack of HDCP, but I think the real answer is it doesn't like "HDCP Repeaters" (the manual cautions about this). My Sony HDTV DVR, on the other hand, switches and HDCP authenticates just fine through the receiver.

4) Multi-room only works with composite. And there's no downconversion from component or S-Video. I thought I was done hooking up my devices with composite cables for good...

5) The graphical front panel display is great!

6) There's an absolute ton of remote control codes. And it operates very much like my SR-18EX, which is to say "I like how it works". And while it looks kind of plain in photos, it's quite impressive in person.

7) Sound quality... mmmmmm. I haven't had any time calibrate ANYTHING yet, all I've done is hooked up the speakers to verify that they're working, but a brief playback of Jurassic Park (basically whatever was left in the DVD player) sounds absolutely fantastic. I mean really really really fantastic.

More later...

8400 users,


Anyone useing analog inputs for cd? I tried the other day, and keep getting the peak indicater to come on, even at mid volumes. Anyone else, it doesn't seem right.

PEAK seems to indicate an issue with the source.

Amazingly, last night I dug out a tape for my VCR and the tape was recorded at so high a level the PEAK indicator came on and stayed on. When I watched TV through the VCR's tuner, no more PEAK indication, so it was just the tape.

Just unpacked my new 7400 today and hooked it up to my Panasonic S97 DVD player using the coax digital input for audio. The video goes directly to a FP.
I popped in the Special Edition of Abyss and hit play.
As I'm watching the front panel of the 7400 and the THX intro plays I see the speaker icon showing all of the channels being decoded. As soon as the movie starts though all I see is the Front Left and Right speaker and what looks like a Rear Center Surround. No Rear Left or Rear Right or LFE or Front Center.
The cover for the DVD says 5.1 Dolby Digital. I'm confused as to why I don't see/hear 5.1 surround.

Any thoughts?

As I'm watching the front panel of the 7400 and the THX intro plays I see the speaker icon showing all of the channels being decoded. As soon as the movie starts though all I see is the Front Left and Right speaker and what looks like a Rear Center Surround. No Rear Left or Rear Right or LFE or Front Center.

Sorry to barge in, but may I suggest you check the setup menu of your DVD player. Are you outputting bitstream or PCM stereo?

You actually have to go pick 5.1 from the DVD setup menu. There's also a 2.0 surround track on there.

Just unpacked my new 7400 today and hooked it up to my Panasonic S97 DVD player using the coax digital input for audio. The video goes directly to a FP.
I popped in the Special Edition of Abyss and hit play.
As I'm watching the front panel of the 7400 and the THX intro plays I see the speaker icon showing all of the channels being decoded. As soon as the movie starts though all I see is the Front Left and Right speaker and what looks like a Rear Center Surround. No Rear Left or Rear Right or LFE or Front Center.
The cover for the DVD says 5.1 Dolby Digital. I'm confused as to why I don't see/hear 5.1 surround.

Any thoughts?
______________________________________________
teknoguy,

Are you playing the movie in DPLIIX? I posted this in an earlier thread when I first tried playing something in CSII and PLIIX from an analog source.
On pg 25-26? there's a matrix which describes the relation between the selected surround mode and the input signal. For PLIIx, the manual states that in Pro Logic, PCM audio input signal can decode into PLIIx movie (for example) and the signal format indicator will only display PCM (L/R speakers on the display).

Then for plain analog to PLIIx, you will not see a speaker diagram on the display. So depending on the specific mode, the speaker diagram will show differently. For whatever reason Marantz's receiver display will only show a six speaker diagram even when you have a 7.1 configuration. I have the SR-8400. Check out the matrix in the manual and see if that helps. :)

Maccur
The default setting is "Bitstream" and I doubled check to make sure.

Daniel Tonks
The only choices are "English Dolby Surround" or "French Dolby Surround"
I have "English Dolby Surround" hi-lited. Don't see any other options.

Kapolei01
I have the "Auto" decode setup on the SR7400. Not using DPLIIx.

This morning I gave it another listen and I think that the surround is working audio-wise just not showing the correct mapping on the 7400 (I turned up the volume on the rear channels a few db.). The top-menu on the setup of the disk has waves crashing on a beach and it sounds like the wave first crashes on the front left speaker and travels to the rear right speaker.

Being new to all this surround-encoded stuff as well as the 7400, have others run into a similar situation where the mapping on the display contradicts the actual audio output?

I tried a LOTR disk and that maps and sounds correct. That's a DTS signal though vs the Dolby Digital 5.1.

Thank you so far folks! Any other thoughts?

Maccur
Daniel Tonks
The only choices are "English Dolby Surround" or "French Dolby Surround"
I have "English Dolby Surround" hi-lited. Don't see any other options.
Thank you so far folks! Any other thoughts?

Dolby Surround does not necessarily mean 5.1, 3.1 etc. I take it to mean a generic format like the older Dolby Prologic (L+R+C+mono surround in the surround channels+sub etc).

That's good to know but...
As I mentioned in the first post, The cover for the DVD says 5.1 Dolby Digital.
So I am assuming the output woud be that.
The DVD menu only has the 2 audio streams I mentioned.

Actually Dolby Surround almost ALWAYS means Dolby 2.0 with surround encoded material.

I think I know the problem. There are two versions of The Abyss Region 1. The widespread one comes with English 5.1 and English 2.0 - no French. Another version, meant for French speaking Canada (AKA Quebec), comes with English 2.0 and French 2.0. There's no 5.1 soundtrack.

The French version normally has "Bonus French Track" written on the front of the packaging, and the Dolby logo on the back switches from "Dolby Digital" to "Dolby Surround". If your case doesn't have that it sounds like you have the French version in English packaging (both packages are in English but you know what I mean). At any rate, the version with English 5.1 does not have French.

There are also other indications beside the speaker diagram to work from.

When you play your track, teknoguy, what appears above the speaker diagram on the display?

You will probably in all cases see a red "double-D" DIGITAL icon. This will be displayed for all DVDs with "Dolby Digital" sound, be it mono, 2.0, 4.0 (aka "Dolby Surround"), 5.1 and 6.1.

But is there anything above it? If you see a blue "double-D" SURROUND icon you know the audio stream is definitely in Dolby Surround (4.0) and has been specifically encoded as such. The SURROUND indication will be OFF when you're listening to a 5.1 or 6.1 track.

The fact that you can't select Dolby Digital 5.1 in the DVD menu and only "Dolby Surround" is probably the determining factor. Perhaps the case advertising was in error? You can also cheat on some DVDs as many players can show you what soundtracks are on the DVD and can allow you to switch on-the-fly. The DVD player will often label the tracks appropriately, i.e. "ENG1 [double-D] 5.1", "ENG2 [double-D] 2.0", "FRE1 [double-D] 2.0" and so on. The "2.0" indication often means Dolby Surround, since Dolby Surround is always encoded in a 2-channel format, with the surround channels mixed in.

Regarding the speaker diagram discrepancy, that's kind of weird. It's always been accurate for me. I'll do some tests tonight.

Hi I have a question: Should I sell my SR-7000 and get a newer Marntz say 7400 or used 8400??? Also looking at Pioneer Elite 54TX or just keep the 7000. Thanks

That's good to know but...
As I mentioned in the first post, The cover for the DVD says 5.1 Dolby Digital.
So I am assuming the output woud be that.
The DVD menu only has the 2 audio streams I mentioned.
____________________________________________
teknoguy,

I have approx. 220 movie DVDs but unfortunately not the Abyss. Daniel Tonks has to be correct based on what you said about your DVD menu selections, i.e., the disc must be encoded in 2.0 Dolby Surround only. I have a 7.1 setup but I tried to duplicate your situation by turning off my back surround speakers and playing a standard Dolby Digital encoded DVD movie (The Pacifier; hey I was at home with the kids while the wife was working). I have a digital coax out from my Denon DVD player into my Marantz SR-8400 and set the surround mode to auto detect. Once I started playing the movie, the Marantz display showed the standard 5.1 speaker configuration (FR/FL/C/LFE/SBL/SBR). I have played a standard VHS movie, then set the surround mode to PLIIX and I only see a FR/FL speaker diagram even though sound is coming through 7 speakers in my 7.1 setup. It goes back to what I was referring to (the matrix describing surround modes & speaker diagram displays) in the manual on pg 25.
:)

The speaker channel indicator only shows REAL or OFFICIALLY decoded channels as specified by the original data stream - what speakers you have (or don't have) doesn't come into it. So playing a Dolby Digital 2.0 Surround movie in Pro Logic IIx will still only show Left, Right and Surround channels.

This is supplemented on the SR9600, which has a display mode that indicates the level of all decoded activity in the receiver's 8 channels, so you can tell exactly what's going on.

In my experience Marantz's channel indicator is 100% reliable and accurate, so if it says you're getting 2.0 Surround that's exactly what the disc has to offer, there's no malfunction.

Man on man talk about "a big honking box"!
I just installed a Marantz SR-9600 and I think it weighed more that the Samsung HL-R 4266 I installed with it!
A really sweet unit though.
My wholesaler told me the RC-9500 would work great with it, and it did, but he also told me the RC-9500 had the codes already built in.
It did not.
That was a pain in the a#$.
I had to break it down to 7 device groups with a total of 26 pages. All built from scratch. Of course, the remote for the SR-9600 also has macro capability, but since I'm using the RC-9500, I didn't even bother to build the macro pages from the 9600's remote. 26 pages in 7 groups was just for the actual receiver operations.

I really like all the asignable inputs as well. The default config seemed like odd choices, but it was super easy to re-assign the ports as needed.

In the auto setup, it reports errors for the rear speakers, but that has me confused because the polarity passed and they make sound. I don't know what else they need to do. The center speaker reported and error as reverse polarity. I checked and it wasn't. I re-checked and it still said reversed. I reversed the leads and it passed, but I don't understand that result because now it is reversed for sure.

If anybody has any words they can share about the speaker checking and possible reasons for the polarity issue on the center and errors for the rear speakers I'd certainly appreciate it.

If anybody knows a source for discrete commands for the SR-9600 I'd sure like to find some.

Hmm, you must like big buttons. I managed to get it down to 5 pages for the main receiver + 1 page per tuner + 3 pages per multiroom, for a max of 13 pages. Although to be fair I ignored a few commands that were useless to me, like DC triggers and speaker selection.

I don't currently have center rear speakers. For the regular surrounds, one did show as reverse polarity and after checking I'm pretty sure it was. It's always possible a speaker is wired incorrectly inside. If you have the Avia DVD there's polarity check test in there that should tell you for sure (come to think of it I should run it as well).

What discretes beyond what's included are you looking for? I mean there's already power, inputs, soundfields, mute, speakers, DC triggers... I've have the complete list of commands for the SR9600 and the only things beyond what comes on the RC3200 are toggles for things already provided in discrete.

[QUOTE=Daniel Tonks]The speaker channel indicator only shows REAL or OFFICIALLY decoded channels as specified by the original data stream - what speakers you have (or don't have) doesn't come into it. So playing a Dolby Digital 2.0 Surround movie in Pro Logic IIx will still only show Left, Right and Surround channels.

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Understood; that's what I'm trying to point out to teknoguy. When using Logic 7 on my previous HK AVR-525, the speaker diagram would show all channels even if the original source was 2-channel. At first, I was suprised that I didn't see the same type of display when I got the Marantz (using DPLIIX on a 2-channel source) but I got used to it. It's the sound that counts and I love my SR-8400. :)

Hi I have a question: Should I sell my SR-7000 and get a newer Marntz say 7400 or used 8400??? Also looking at Pioneer Elite 54TX or just keep the 7000. Thanks

It depends what you want. Looking around the web for the SR-7000, it appears that the SR-7000 is a 5.1 Dolby Digital/DTS/Pro-Logic receiver.

The 7400/8400 adds:

- Dolby Digital EX, DTS-ES (6.1 matrix and discrete)
- Dolby Pro-Logic IIx (7.1 matrix for all input sound formats, including Dolby Digital 5.1)
- a better remote
- one more coaxial digital input
- OSD (I think the 7000 probably doesn't have it)

So if you were thinking of sticking with 5.1 speakers, the only feature that's really added is Dolby Pro-Logic II (not IIx with 5.1 speakers though). This is a considerable upgrade over Pro-Logic if you use this soundfield a lot.

If you were thinking of upgrading to 7.1, then the 7400/8400 would be a great upgrade.

BTW my 7400 will be coming up for sale shortly.:)