DVICO Fusion 5 HDTV tuner

[Steve Schauer]

Now that this card is shipping, it's time to start a fresh thread with solid information rather than speculation. If you've installed this card, please let us know your impressions. Here's the basic info on the FusionHDTV5 cards:

What?
The DVICO Fusion 5 is a new ATSC tuner card with the latest 5th generation LG chipset. It includes BDA drivers compatible with Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005, and also comes with its own homegrown PVR software. There are two flavors - Gold and Lite. The Gold includes bundled DVD creation software and an MCE compatible remote control and a different, later generation analog tuner than the Lite.

The new cards ship with driver version 2.99.09, which as of this date are newer than the drivers at DVICO's website.

Where
Read about it here:
DVICO Product Page (http://www.fusionhdtv.co.kr/Eng/products/)

Buy it here:
Digital Connection: FusionHDTV5 Gold (http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/fusion5.asp)
Digital Connection: FusionHDTV5 Lite (http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/fusion5lt.asp)
CopperBox: FusionHDTV5 Gold (http://www.copperbox.com/lite/popinfo.php?lc_code=FUSION-HDTV5-GOLD)
CopperBox: FusionHDTV5 Lite (http://www.copperbox.com/lite/popinfo.php?lc_code=FUSION-HDTV5-SILVER)

What software can I use with this card?
DVICO's PVR software is serviceable. It uses TitanTV for an Electronic Program Guide and scheduled recording, and supports pause, rewind, and fast forward of live tv.

GotAllMedia (http://www.gotallmedia.com) supports the Fusion card.

There's a 3rd party plugin for Sage (http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=11147) that supports the Fusion cards.

Media Center Edition 2005 is supported, and the DVICO drivers allow multiple (two?) cards to be used in MCE.

The big question for me is how much better is the new LG tuner for multipath and weak signal problems? DVICO says
Enhanced reception rate using the LG's 5th generation tuner
Improved reception performance for wider distances and better multi-path rejection
Is it true?

[revgen]

I don't know if it has improved multipath rejection. This is the first HDTV card that I've ever owned.

I hopefully will have my antenna set up this weekend.

I live about 50 miles from the transmitter, so I hope it works well.

I'll report back once I'm done.

[Peter Nagy]

Thank you Steve for starting this thread. I got tired of reading too much speculation from other thread. I look forward reading reports of how well Fusion 5 handles multi-path signals in this thread.

Peter

[Steve Schauer]

'welcome. I have 2 fears with this card.

1) I buy it now to replace my F3 and it doesn't help my reception issues. or
2) It turns out to be killer and then it's out of stock and I can't get it.

Help me Obi-wan.

[Peter Nagy]

'welcome. I have 2 fears with this card.

1) I buy it now to replace my F3 and it doesn't help my reception issues. or
2) It turns out to be killer and then it's out of stock and I can't get it.

Help me Obi-wan.

That's why I don't want to be a guienna pig. :D

[NEOSG]

I've got a 3 and a 5 up and running AOK. But, i am using one for QAM and one for OTA.

I'm not an OTA HD Expert, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night. But, I can easily hook them both up to OTA and run some tests. Luckily for me, I already get great reception of all my locals. So, other than reporting back signal strength meter differences, is there any else I can test, or use to test, that might help other potential/current users? Suggestions welcome:-)

[Neil L]

I'm not sure that this is the best time of the year to be testing for long distance reception anyway. Propagation is pretty good right now, and my F3 is getting excellent reception from over 70 miles. It's in the middle of winter when I can't get much, and would like to know if the new tuner will help. 'Course, multi-path issues are probably more common, and more consistent. Can't wait to hear some actual test results.

[Steve Schauer]

NeoSG, from what I understand, the signal strength is only a very crude indicator of what's going on. It doesn't tell you what the signal/noise is, or anything about the multipath.

That's really a shame you have good reception. :)

[Cliff Watson]

My F5 is on the UPS truck and I'm setup and ready to start testing.

I can compare the F5 to a F3 and MyHD MDP-120/MDP-130 cards. I have a Silver Sensor setup (w/o amp) and can get a good lock on the MyHD MDP-120 at 21% off one of my low power channels (28% to 32% on MDP-130) and no signal on the other LP channel. This will be a good test of the F5 to see if it can tune the "no signal" channel.

[NEOSG]

Thanks for your heartful concern Steve :)

Any suggestions on tools or other apps I could use to help is any kind of testing for the benefit of others. I have gotten so much out of the this site in the past. Nice to try and returnt he favor.

If you think of anything, just let me know.

hey wait, I know. I could rig up a power converter, and drive my computer and a monitor around town until I get a bad signal, lol

[Karyk]

I'm not an OTA HD Expert, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night. But, I can easily hook them both up to OTA and run some tests. Luckily for me, I already get great reception of all my locals. So, other than reporting back signal strength meter differences, is there any else I can test, or use to test, that might help other potential/current users? Suggestions welcome:-)

Go to Radio Shack and buy about 10 4 to 1 splitters, and hook them all up in line, followed by an attenuator. :D ;)

[MI_CT]

Does the Qam support on it? I had one of the first 3 cards that the qam didnt work on, so on top of wanting better ota, i would like working qam.

MI

[skiguy411]

I would love a comparison between the fusion 5 and the HDTV Wonder. As of right now the HDTV Wonder studders a bit even with a strong signal.

[tmansg1]

I would love a comparison between the fusion 5 and the HDTV Wonder. As of right now the HDTV Wonder studders a bit even with a strong signal.
Isn't the HDTV wonder only an OTA hd tuner?

[bullgates]

Isn't the HDTV wonder only an OTA hd tuner?


correct

[Steve Schauer]

Incorrect. There's an analog tuner on the HDTV Wonder as well as a digital tuner. The analog tuner isn't recognized by MCE with the ATI drivers, but there's a hacked set of drivers that lets it somewhat work in MCE.

This is also off-topic. Cliff, where's that dang UPS guy? I need some anecdotal evidence.

There's a thread on the HDTV Hardware forum where someone reported that the 30" LG display with the built-in 5G tuner didn't do anything extra for him. :(

[Peter Nagy]

I would love a comparison between the fusion 5 and the HDTV Wonder. As of right now the HDTV Wonder studders a bit even with a strong signal.

Are you using ATI MMC or Windows MCE 2005? What graphics card are you using? I started with ATI MMC and I had nothing but problems. I now use Windows MCE 2005 with latest NVIDIA DVD decoder and it works great. No stuttering at 720p or 1080i. In order to have smooth playback at 1080i, I had to replace the cheaper FX5200 with higher-end GeForce 6600GT graphics card. Try set your video output to 720p and see if it still stutters.

Remember Fusion 5 will most likely not solve weak signal problem. It supposed to solve multi-paths problem. There's a difference.

Peter

[Cliff Watson]

Steve, I don't know. Still waiting here at 5:30 PM.

I noticed something about a small UHF antenna. I moved the Silver Sensor 2 feet to the right on my patio railing and the signal level increased 30%. Still can't tune the LP Fox channel.

I also noticed that thread about the 30" LG TV.

[MDK]

Thanks for your heartful concern Steve :)

Any suggestions on tools or other apps I could use to help is any kind of testing for the benefit of others. I have gotten so much out of the this site in the past. Nice to try and returnt he favor.

If you think of anything, just let me know.

hey wait, I know. I could rig up a power converter, and drive my computer and a monitor around town until I get a bad signal, lol
If you can get all the local digitals, including our WB that is broadcasting at half the power of my microwave oven, that is a pretty good start. If you're looking for a tough signal to pull in, try the toronto stations. If you're in Amherst it should be ~50 miles. I can pull in a 13% signal from the CBC on an MDP-130...not enough for a picture but enough to tease me. I'd like to know if you have any more luck with that Fusion-5

[DaveRochNY]

As of right now the HDTV Wonder studders a bit even with a strong signal.

PMFJI: My Fusion II card started studdering. After playing a lot with my ant., thinking I was getting multi-path, I finally determined the cause.

It was the Netgear WiFi pci card. Not its driver or interupt me thinks, but the WiFi signal being transmitted and being picked up by the FII.

[weren1]

Hello i was wondering how you guys use the fusion when you have multiple sources you want to input. Such as an OTA antenna and cable since the fusion has only 1 input do you use a switch a-b box? i just purchased this card and was wondering my best choices for multiple inputs.

[revgen]

Hello i was wondering how you guys use the fusion when you have multiple sources you want to input. Such as an OTA antenna and cable since the fusion has only 1 input do you use a switch a-b box? i just purchased this card and was wondering my best choices for multiple inputs.

I'd just let a vcr or a cable box decode the analog signals and send them to the s-video/composite port.

[Googo]

Go to Radio Shack and buy about 10 4 to 1 splitters, and hook them all up in line, followed by an attenuator. :D ;)
Don't know about prices, but wouldn't it be better just to get a few large attenuators? You only lose about 7db or so with the 1 to 4? splitters.

[jawgee]

...GotAllMedia (http://www.gotallmedia.com) supports the Fusion card...

I've NEVER been able to get my Fusion 3QAM card working with GAM, using QAM, that is. No one else on the GAM forum seems to be able to make any concrete suggestions on how to get it to work, either, though some have mentioned that they've been able to mysteriously get it to work. I gave up once the paid version of the program came out (v4). If anyone can get any of the Fusion cards to work in QAM mode in GAM, please let me know.

Thanks,
jawgee

[jawgee]

I'm not sure that this is the best time of the year to be testing for long distance reception anyway. Propagation is pretty good right now, and my F3 is getting excellent reception from over 70 miles. It's in the middle of winter when I can't get much, and would like to know if the new tuner will help. 'Course, multi-path issues are probably more common, and more consistent. Can't wait to hear some actual test results.

I'm not a scientist, but that sounds opposite to common sense to me, about reception in the spring being better than in the winter. I would think that all of the blooming trees would get in the way of the reception. Just curious...

Thanks,
jawgee

[Cliff Watson]

I'm not a scientist, but that sounds opposite to common sense to me, about reception in the spring being better than in the winter. I would think that all of the blooming trees would get in the way of the reception. Just curious...

Thanks,
jawgee

Plus cold air contains less H2O to attenuate the RF signal.

[Neil L]

Plus cold air contains less H2O to attenuate the RF signal.
But, the warm moist air of summer and fall provide good temperature inversion conditions that reflect the RF signals back to the ground. Which is necessary for reception for those of us beyond the RF horizon.

I know it's not summer yet. But it sure feels like it here. Anyway, reception is good now, and it wasn't during this past winter.

[Cliff Watson]

This is also off-topic. Cliff, where's that dang UPS guy? I need some anecdotal evidence.

There's a thread on the HDTV Hardware forum where someone reported that the 30" LG display with the built-in 5G tuner didn't do anything extra for him. :(

Steve,

UPS guy arrived and have had time to do some testing and comparison to MyHD MDP-130 card.

The sensitive of F5 Lite and MDP-130 are absolutely identical! That’s the good news and the bad news is that no OTA digital channels were found on the channel scan and some analog channels were missed. I was able to tune DTV channels by manually adding them to the list.

I tested both F5 Lite and MDP-130 connected to the same Silver Sensor using a splitter to both cards. On the high end (strong signal) both cards display about the same signal levels, however where the signal level is reduced the F5 gives a false indication of signal strength. With a combined –26dB tap the MDP-130 was still locked onto a signal at 21% and the F5 was still locked at 60% indication. A slight rotation of the antenna to the point that no video could be decoded from both the MDP-130 indicated 13% and F5 was showing 50%.

I started with the SS antenna in the optimal location and proceeded to add taps to the line until reducing the signal to be lowest threshold level. Channels where lost at the same time on both cards as the level was reduced. I then checked for signal lock (or lost signal) on off axis antenna position. Again both cards lost the signal at the same position.

Steve, this is not anecdotal evidence. I use pure scientology principals for this test. :D

[NEOSG]

If you can get all the local digitals, including our WB that is broadcasting at half the power of my microwave oven, that is a pretty good start. If you're looking for a tough signal to pull in, try the toronto stations. If you're in Amherst it should be ~50 miles. I can pull in a 13% signal from the CBC on an MDP-130...not enough for a picture but enough to tease me. I'd like to know if you have any more luck with that Fusion-5

I'll give it a go. I've got the list of the toronto/ontario stations from remotecentral.com, so I'll tinker over the weekend and report back. I may need to wait until Tuesday when the E* guy comes to do my installation. I was going to hit him up to move my antenna from the attic to the roof. But, we'll see how it goes with it in the attic. Yeah, I spoke too soon, the WB is such a week signal for me too. But, again, I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night either:-) Till later.....

[Steve Schauer]

Steve, this is not anecdotal evidence. I use pure scientology principals for this test. :D
I didn't know you were from L.A. :D

Seriously though Cliff, it sounds like you were very thorough and I appreciate the feedback. I had a sneaking suspicion the claims might have been a bit overblown, but I was hoping.

How would you compare the sensitivity of the MDP-130 to the previous Fusion? Were they fairly even as well, or is the 5 an improvement?

[e vey]

Cliff:
--connected to the same Silver Sensor using a splitter to both cards--

That's not such a swell idea.

[Shape]

Cliff:
--connected to the same Silver Sensor using a splitter to both cards--

That's not such a swell idea.

Why is that? I have two tuners attached to the same antenna using a splitter and I haven't seen a difference with or without the splitter in terms of reception.

[aljohnso]

I am going to add my two bits here, 'cause I may have one of these cards soon.

I thought the major difference was the better rejection of multipath, not better sensitivity.

I was of the opinion that multipath (echos in the signal) were more likely to be a problem with strong signals, not weak ones where the echo may fall beneath reception threshold.

I was hoping that some of the issues with cable might be poor terminated splitters, and the new multipath correction might deal with that.

'course, if I could pull in LA OTA from ~300mi away I would be pleased, but still....

Allen

[Peter Nagy]

Why is that? I have two tuners attached to the same antenna using a splitter and I haven't seen a difference with or without the splitter in terms of reception.

Anytime a signal is split, it cuts the signal strength by half. For example, a 100 Watts signal going into a spliter, the signal strength of each output of the splitter will be 50 Watts. If the same signal is split by four times, then signal strength of each output would be 25 Watts. You may not see the difference probably because the source of your signal is already strong.

[TPeterson]

I thought the major difference was the better rejection of multipath, not better sensitivity.

I was of the opinion that multipath (echos in the signal) were more likely to be a problem with strong signals, not weak ones where the echo may fall beneath reception threshold.Allen, yes, MP distortion occurs when the tuner/demodulator cannot distinguish between the direct and reflected signals, because they are of comparable strength (whether both are weak or strong). The test that Cliff did of rotating the antenna would have the effect of changing the relative strengths of the direct and reflected components reaching both tuners, so that if they had markedly different MP-rejection behavior he would have seen them lose signal lock differently. That's not what he found.

[MDK]

Anytime a signal is split, it cuts the signal strength by half. For example, a 100 Watts signal going into a spliter, the signal strength of each output of the splitter will be 50 Watts. If the same signal is split by four times, then signal strength of each output would be 25 Watts. You may not see the difference probably because the source of your signal is already strong.
Right...and if the signal is split by a factor of 2 the signal to noise ratio would ideally be decreased by a factor of the square root of 2. I'm not sure what matters more for digital reception - S or S/N, but I think it's the latter.

[Peter Nagy]

Right...and if the signal is split by a factor of 2 the signal to noise ratio would ideally be decreased by a factor of the square root of 2. I'm not sure what matters more for digital reception - S or S/N, but I think it's the latter.

I believe the S/N ratio will stay the same. Both the signal and the noise strength will get reduced by the same factor, therefore the ratio should not change.

[Cliff Watson]

Right...and if the signal is split by a factor of 2 the signal to noise ratio would ideally be decreased by a factor of the square root of 2. I'm not sure what matters more for digital reception - S or S/N, but I think it's the latter.


You are correct that it is the SNR that matters the most. Both tested cards need between 16 and 17 dB SNR for a good lock.

[Cliff Watson]

I believe the S/N ratio will stay the same. Both the signal and the noise strength will get reduced by the same factor, therefore the ratio should not change.

The SNR does not stay the same. Man made noise does not decrease with reduced signal level, unless the source of the noise is also reduced.

[Karyk]

Steve, this is not anecdotal evidence. I use pure scientology principals for this test. :D

Great report Cliff, but if I might suggest some additional test ideas.

First, techically I think to make sure the tuners are acting identically as you claim, you should reverse the cables to each one, just on the off chance that one cable is better than the other. Then your testing would be pure scientology! :D

Second (and the real reason for this post), if I'm not mistaken, multipath issues would show up better without the splitter, since the MP signal would be slightly stronger (or at least I believe I know attenuators reduce FM multipath interference). So, you might want to devise some sort of independent tests you can do with each card in a relatively short timeframe. I'm not sure whether walking around your SS would result in multipath interference, or what you'd need to do.

[Cliff Watson]

I didn't know you were from L.A. :D

Seriously though Cliff, it sounds like you were very thorough and I appreciate the feedback. I had a sneaking suspicion the claims might have been a bit overblown, but I was hoping.

How would you compare the sensitivity of the MDP-130 to the previous Fusion? Were they fairly even as well, or is the 5 an improvement?

Steve,

The Fusion QT was fairly even with the MDP-130.

[Nrmf]

hope this is correct place...will the new fusion 5th gen run in a xp pro 64 bit enviroment

[e vey]

--xp pro 64 bit enviroment--

Not with the current drivers.

[Nrmf]

ok thought it would be fun....just will put it next to my myhd120

[e vey]

--So, you might want to devise some sort of independent tests you can do with each card in a relatively short timeframe. --

Outdoor antenna = more strength = more multipath. Multipath looks like poor strength, no way of telling the diff without more testing. Just about impossible to test for multipath rejection unless you know it is there.

[aljohnso]

If you take a splitter, split your incoming signal into two different lengths of cable, then recombine them (a splitter run backwards should do - if not, then I can do some reading in the ARRL handbook for a combiner) you have made a controlled amount of multipath. An attenuator in one of the lines makes even better control. If you wanted real scientology, then you would chose a set of attenuators so you could make any attenuation and then find the threshold... and vary the differential lengths of the cables to find the equalization window.

lots of work, I know. Could be fun, though.

(this should be a "learning" dodad - remember how the high speed modems deal with line non-idealities by screaming at each other to listen for the echos/pass band behavior? Is there something in the manual/card about "training" it for the multipath in your environment? Perhaps it knows the format of the broadcast and deconvolves that? The upshot/implication of this speculation is that the tuner might get "better" over time - and I don't know if that time is short or long enough to complicate testing)

Allen

[RayL Jr.]

I tested both F5 Lite and MDP-130 connected to the same Silver Sensor using a splitter to both cards. On the high end (strong signal) both cards display about the same signal levels, however where the signal level is reduced the F5 gives a false indication of signal strength. With a combined –26dB tap the MDP-130 was still locked onto a signal at 21% and the F5 was still locked at 60% indication. A slight rotation of the antenna to the point that no video could be decoded from both the MDP-130 indicated 13% and F5 was showing 50%.So the F5 don't know it's own strength or is it a bad/normal/good strength meter (based)?

[Cliff Watson]

--So, you might want to devise some sort of independent tests you can do with each card in a relatively short timeframe. --

Outdoor antenna = more strength = more multipath. Multipath looks like poor strength, no way of telling the diff without more testing. Just about impossible to test for multipath rejection unless you know it is there.

I have a Windows utility that can analyze the multipath from the Nxt2000 demodulator chip. The chart shows the amount of +/- signal caused by MP and also shows the actual locked signal and time variation of each signal.

After ATI purchased NextWave they stopped releasing the demodulator API for newer chips so I can no longer check the MP.

[Cliff Watson]

So the F5 don't know it's own strength or is it a bad/normal/good strength meter (based)?

Ray,

The scale factor can be adjusted by the manufacturer. MIT believes that it is better to have MyHD display a lower signal strength while still being able to lock and decode the signal than have a higher SS and not be able to lock on the signal.

You would think that a SS of 50% should display a video image.

[wanders]

...this is not anecdotal evidence. I use pure scientology principals for this test. :D

It's good to see someone still believes in the scientologic method :rolleyes: ...

But for those who already have the Fusion 5 and who want to do the experiment, can MCE use it standalone, or do you need to have another (NTSC) tuner card installed?

ALso, any input on whether the Fusion 5 has a hardware MPEG encoder?

Thanks in advance :)

[revgen]

It's good to see someone still believes in the scientologic method :rolleyes: ...

But for those who already have the Fusion 5 and who want to do the experiment, can MCE use it standalone, or do you need to have another (NTSC) tuner card installed?

ALso, any input on whether the Fusion 5 has a hardware MPEG encoder?

Thanks in advance :)

No hardware. It's all software.

[2ntense]

It's good to see someone still believes in the scientologic method :rolleyes: ...

But for those who already have the Fusion 5 and who want to do the experiment, can MCE use it standalone, or do you need to have another (NTSC) tuner card installed?

ALso, any input on whether the Fusion 5 has a hardware MPEG encoder?

Thanks in advance :)

I tried it and the F5 does not work standalone. Also, any thought s on QAM reception? I'm not getting any digital stations. I expected to get at least the locals. Right now I'm dissapointed with the results because I had a early F3 that was known not to be very good at decoding QAM and still in the same boat. :mad:

I can say using my radio shack antenna down in my basement allows me to receive all my locals channels with 80% or higher reception. Any suggestions for a nice outdoor omni directional antenna? I have a tower right now with a very directional antenna on top, don't know what it is though.

[revgen]

I'd suggest getting an antenna from Antennas Direct. They have a 90 day money back guarantee in case your reception doesn't improve. This forum doesn't allow me to post the website, so just type the name in Google.

The best Omni-directional model they have is the DB-8, which they rate at 70 miles.

[jimwhite]

"I use pure scientology principals for this test.


I didn't know you were from L.A."


FWIW, the Scientology HQ is in Clearwater, Florida....

:cool:

[2ntense]

The best Omni-directional model they have is the DB-8, which they rate at 70 miles.

Thanks, I'll give it a shot.

[trbarry]

I'm sort of waiting to the answers to two questions before deciding whether to buy one of these:

1) Does its 5th gen LG chip really make it have better ATSC (multipath) reception than my current F3Q, or maybe even the MyHD 130? (doesn't really sound like it so far, but maybe)

2) Does it work okay with unencrypted QAM cable, assuming strong signal.

Cmon guys, need more (and better) reports here.

- Tom

[revgen]

2) Does it work okay with unencrypted QAM cable, assuming strong signal.

Cmon guys, need more (and better) reports here.

- Tom

<WARNING:RANT>

I'm not sure why their aren't any reports about QAM, but I can guess.
My cable company (Adelphia) won't tell whether or not they offer unencrypted QAM support. In order for me to recieve HDTV they want me to spend $20/month extra for basic digital cable, $17/month to rent an HD reciever and a $25 installation fee. With these ridiculous prices, I'm not willing to find out. Especially since the only HD channels they offer besides the free local channels are HBO and Showtime.

That is why I'm sticking with an antenna for now.

<RANT OVER>

On the other hand the FusionHDTV5 was just released. It will take time for others to get it. QAM reports should come pretty soon.

[TPeterson]

I'm sort of waiting to the answers to two questions before deciding whether to buy one of these:

1) Does its 5th gen LG chip really make it have better ATSC (multipath) reception than my current F3Q, or maybe even the MyHD 130? (doesn't really sound like it so far, but maybe)

2) Does it work okay with unencrypted QAM cable, assuming strong signal.

Cmon guys, need more (and better) reports here.Tom, based on the head-to-head tests that Cliff reported between this card and the MDP-130, it seems to me highly unlikely that there is a tangible difference between them in either sensitivity or MP rejection. At least, I'm sufficiently satisfied that I'm not about to venture a hundred bucks for the experiment. OTOH, if somebody wants to send me a card to test here in (ahem) real MP hell, aka S.F. Peninsula canyons, I'll be happy to provide another head-to-head test result (and I'd even return the card). ;)

[TPeterson]

<WARNING:RANT>

I'm not sure why their aren't any reports about QAM, but I can guess....recieve....
<RANT OVER>revgen--

I'm not sure what your concern is...even the F3 cards receive QAM OK, limited only by the buggy sw. And the F5 has essentially the same sw, so what's the rant about? If you want QAM with stable sw, get an MDP-130. ;)

(BTW, it's "eye before ee, except after cee." :D)

[revgen]

revgen--

I'm not sure what your concern is...even the F3 cards receive QAM OK, limited only by the buggy sw. And the F5 has essentially the same sw, so what's the rant about? If you want QAM with stable sw, get an MDP-130. ;)

The rant was directed at my cable company, not the card. ;)

(BTW, it's "eye before ee, except after cee." :D)

I didn't mean to offend the spelling bee champ.:p

[2ntense]

I'm sort of waiting to the answers to two questions before deciding whether to buy one of these:

2) Does it work okay with unencrypted QAM cable, assuming strong signal.

- Tom

I live in Toledo OHIO and get Buckeye Cable. My Fusion5 does NOT get any QAM channels at all. I was thinking they may be filtering me at the line or something, don't know. I do subscribe for the HD service right now though. So I would think filters might be removed. So far I'm obviously not happy with the QAM performance as this is one of my main reasons for purchasing this card.

[Cliff Watson]

I'm sort of waiting to the answers to two questions before deciding whether to buy one of these:

1) Does its 5th gen LG chip really make it have better ATSC (multipath) reception than my current F3Q, or maybe even the MyHD 130? (doesn't really sound like it so far, but maybe)

2) Does it work okay with unencrypted QAM cable, assuming strong signal.

Cmon guys, need more (and better) reports here.

- Tom

Tom,

Just for you I connected my cable coax to the F5 Lite card to see if there are any improvements over the F3 QT card and I can report that there is not any. The F5 still has crappy software and it did find QAM (64 & 256) channels it missed many sub channels.

Even the OTA kind of sux because it can't fully read the PSIP data transmitted in the TS. In fact I have to manually add the OTA digital channels and once tuned it does display the call sign but does not remap the channel number.

MyHD MDP-130 QAM tuning (and software) is miles ahead of the F5 (and F3) cards.

[Cliff Watson]

I live in Toledo OHIO and get Buckeye Cable. My Fusion5 does NOT get any QAM channels at all. I was thinking they may be filtering me at the line or something, don't know. I do subscribe for the HD service right now though. So I would think filters might be removed. So far I'm obviously not happy with the QAM performance as this is one of my main reasons for purchasing this card.

Are you sure that you selected the correct settings to scan for QAM channels?

Regardless of being encrypted or not the QAM scan should find all QAM channels and the F5 software (RC3) does combine both 64QAM and 256QAM. I was able to tune both without switching.

[2ntense]

Are you sure that you selected the correct settings to scan for QAM channels?

Regardless of being encrypted or not the QAM scan should find all QAM channels and the F5 software (RC3) does combine both 64QAM and 256QAM. I was able to tune both without switching.

Cliff,

When I said I don't get any channels what I meant was NO picture and NO sound, sorry. Actually the F5 scans about 31 digital stations (1) channel 73 and the other (30) 100 - up. So I don't know whats up.

[NEOSG]

This is just an FYI. Here is an email I sent to dvico and their response;

Hi,

I am currently running 2 of your cards a Fusion3/Qam, and a Fusion 5 Gold, alongside an ATI HDTV Wonder. I have the Fusion3 and the ATI doing OTA HDTV within MCE. I am using the Fusion5 to handle QAM from cable company. Is there a way I can tell the FusionHDTV application to ONLY use the Fusion 5? If I have things recording within MCE using using the ATI and Fusion3, and I then go to use the Fusion5 via FusionHDTV, the recordings in MCE are abruptily stopped. I have specified within the windows registry that the Fusion3 and the ATI are enabled for MCE, while the Fusion5 is not enabled for MCE. MCE seems to respect those settings AOK.

My problem seems to be with the FusionHDTV app. It seems to want to use all fusion cards, not just the Fusion5.

Please help

Reply to your question is as below.
Hi. Sorry about all your inconveniences. FusionHDTV BDA driver supports multiple cards configuration so you can watch one channel and record another something like that. But Fusion software doesn"t support at this moment. We are a working towards getting a solution for this as soon as possible. Please wait for while. Thanks.

[Karyk]

Cliff,

When I said I don't get any channels what I meant was NO picture and NO sound, sorry. Actually the F5 scans about 31 digital stations (1) channel 73 and the other (30) 100 - up. So I don't know whats up.

Check the thread for your local cable provider to find out which of the channels are your local HD channels. That can save a lot of time! For me locally, the local HDs are all between 81 and 84, inclusive. When I first got my Fusion card it was very frustrating trying to find that out. Because Fusion didn't work with QAM recordings through TitanTV I went with OTA, but I'm now using Fusion 3 for QAM, and finding out the locals saved me a bunch of time and frustration.

[trbarry]

Just for you I connected my cable coax to the F5 Lite card to see if there are any improvements over the F3 QT card and I can report that there is not any. The F5 still has crappy software and it did find QAM (64 & 256) channels it missed many sub channels.

Even the OTA kind of sux because it can't fully read the PSIP data transmitted in the TS. In fact I have to manually add the OTA digital channels and once tuned it does display the call sign but does not remap the channel number.

Cliff -

Thanks, I guess. ;)

Your info was very helpful but of course equally depressing. My current F3Q card already gets most of the 256 QAM channels known to be available in my area. But it takes a strong signal. I had to complain about my cable box reception twice to get the cable guys to come out and (both times) replace wet filters outside the house. I already have (and have mostly gotten used to) the quirky F3Q software. I don't really expect that to change if I got an F5Q or whatever.

I also get decent, but not great, OTA reception with my equally quirky HiDTV card. So I guess without better reports here there is no reason to drop back to a card with only 1 f-connector and no other advanatges.

But I'll await further reports. With the broadcast flag temporarily exorcised I guess I have no hurry for now.

I don't really care much about PSIP since I consider it still fairly unreliable.


- Tom

[Mr. Pannus]

Hi,

Sorry if this is overly noobly, but I was wondering if the multipath advantage of the Fusion5 would lend itself better to omnidirectional antennas, rather than unidirectional. I'm going to live in a high-rise condo, and the DB2 seems like my best bet in terms of signal strength (I live in Toronto, and would like to pick up some US stations). Does the new tuner help me at all, or would I be better off sticking to the Fusion3 (which can now be had more cheaply). QAM not an option (all encrypted in Toronto - bastards!)

[2ntense]

Check the thread for your local cable provider to find out which of the channels are your local HD channels. That can save a lot of time! For me locally, the local HDs are all between 81 and 84, inclusive. When I first got my Fusion card it was very frustrating trying to find that out. Because Fusion didn't work with QAM recordings through TitanTV I went with OTA, but I'm now using Fusion 3 for QAM, and finding out the locals saved me a bunch of time and frustration.

Could you link the thread please? Thanks

[Karyk]

Could you link the thread please? Thanks

The threads for local cable and OTA are in this forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=45

Note: Find an existing thread that covers your cable company in your city--do not start a new thread.

[Nrmf]

Ok Mr.Cliff i ordered the the Lite version as per your suggestion all i need now is to figure out how to get another RG6 line into here. wished there was some way to combine HD OTA and QAM on same line

[hphase]

Still waiting for a post with solid info. Anyone out there have one of these cards in a CITY environment? Generally, those people will have lots of signal AND lots of reflections.

I enjoy everyones opinion on "how radio works" but please limit your speculation about what might happen.

[Cliff Watson]

Still waiting for a post with solid info. Anyone out there have one of these cards in a CITY environment? Generally, those people will have lots of signal AND lots of reflections.

I enjoy everyones opinion on "how radio works" but please limit your speculation about what might happen.

Your location would be perfect for testing.

[MI_CT]

I broke down and got the gold version. Just Ordered it. Should have it by the end of the week if they really have them in stock. If it does qam ill be happy since my first fusion 3 card was the first rev that had hardware issues with qam. If not, ill prob stay away from dvico stuff from now on.

Ill try to get some reviews of it when i get it.

MI

[gameboy]

I ordered one over the weekend (my ATI HDTV has gone berserk, perfect timing:)). Will report when it gets here (2 Day Air, hopefully it will be here by Wed or Thu). Any requests?

Gameboy

[HybridHB]

I get the F5 lite tommarow. I live in the boonies about 65 miles away from the towers so my signal strength on the F2 was mediocre at best. We will see how the F5 does. On another note, they should release an F5 Deluxe Turbo edition with dual coax input and the rage theater 550. that would rock.

[justlnluck]

I get the F5 lite tommarow. I live in the boonies about 65 miles away from the towers so my signal strength on the F2 was mediocre at best. We will see how the F5 does. On another note, they should release an F5 Deluxe Turbo edition with dual coax input and the rage theater 550. that would rock.

Hehe, I second that! At least allow analog audio to be transferred to the soundcard by the PCI bus and not through an external cable.

[hphase]

Your location would be perfect for testing.
Yup. (Why do you think I want to know the results?)

[Cliff Watson]

Yup. (Why do you think I want to know the results?)

We're waiting on you to give us the results. ;)

[HybridHB]

hmmmmm, i could test it at my friends house. He has an F3 and lives in downtown orlando. He also uses an omnidirectional antenna and gets 100% signal on almost every channel. He tells me he gets a lot of stuttering at random. He can get it to stutter when walking around his antenna too. Ill do some testing over there after my midterms next week if someone else hasnt done it by then.

[thinksnow]

Quick question, as this is my first peek into HDTV cards: I have two PVR-250's already and was thinking of getting a Fusion. Since I already have access to analog via the Hauppauge cards, would I be just as well served by the 5-Lite as the 5-Gold?

I've been slogging through the searched-out-threads and it seems like everyone is still waiting for the word on these cards, so any help, IMHO or otherwise, would be greatly appreciated.


Curent setup:
P4 2.8 on MSI 865PE Neo2, 1GB PC3200, MX440, Haup PVR-250, Adaptec SCSI Card 29160 plugged into Promise Ultratrak TX8 1TB RAID-5 media server

[jim tressler]

just an fyi - copperbox is out of stock as some of their shipment is held up at customs. I pre ordred on the 27th of may.

jim

[comp1040]

It is gone from Copperbox's web site this morning.

[t0pquark]

just an fyi - copperbox is out of stock as some of their shipment is held up at customs. I pre ordred on the 27th of may.

jim

Yeah - I had pre-ordered on May 15th (When the ETA was still 5-16 ;) ) and I just called and canceled my order yesterday and re-ordered from Digital Connection. It didn't ship same day, even though I was well before the 2:00pst window - so hopefully they still have SOME in stock :( . I sent them an e-mail about it this morning and I'll post an update when I get mail back.

[t0pquark]

:mad: The digital connections site now shows that the cards are "backordered" and the new ship date is 5/17/2005 :mad:

(yes, it DOES say 5/17, though I suspect they MEAN 6/17)

[gameboy]

Ooo, got my email that the card has shipped and is in my city now. Hopefully, will get it today!!!

[DrCR]

hmmmmm, i could test it at my friends house. He has an F3 and lives in downtown orlando. He also uses an omnidirectional antenna and gets 100% signal on almost every channel. He tells me he gets a lot of stuttering at random. He can get it to stutter when walking around his antenna too. Ill do some testing over there after my midterms next week if someone else hasnt done it by then.
Looking forward to hearing how it goes.

I live in a suburb in the foothills of the Appalachian mountain range. My house is in the middle of my neighborhood…basically at the lowest point elevation wise, the neighborhood’s typography being something like a bowl. Most of the homes are two-story. Also in a flight path of an intl. Airport…my SDTV with a std. “bunny-ears” antenna occasionally flickers to the RPM of passing helicopters :rolleyes:. The area is also old growth forest, so the trees are a dense concentration of very large, tall trees not only around my house, but also the whole surrounding, higher-elevation area.

Been wanting to get an HDTV capture card for PC and mounting a large omnidirectional, something like a DB8, in the lofty attic, but I been waiting for the HDTV PC card tech to mature and with the BF being at least temporarily halted, I don’t mind waiting some more.

Very interested to hear reports, such as yours, of areas with lots of reflections and good signal strenghts. :)

DrCR

__________

[Ksult1]

Thanks for the update on Copperbox. The cards have been put back on their webpage, but are now listed as preorders. I hope they can get the cards through soon.

[jeffspam]

We're waiting on you to give us the results. ;)

If there was someone at home to sign for it today, I'll have results for metro NYC shortly. If not, I'll have results for metro NYC shortly + 1 day.

[HybridHB]

Just installed the F5 lite. I have the same prob where scanning wont pick up digital channels at all, none. I have to manually add them in. The good news is that with the F2, abc would stutter very badly but the F5 so far is stutter free :). ABC on the F2 would drop signal from 68%-0 and just keep doing it.

[Cliff Watson]

I've been in contact with a DIvco engineer tonight about the F5 Lite scanning problem.

Has anyone with the F5 Gold card had a problem finding OTA channels on the scan?

[revgen]

I have a Gold version, but I have yet to put up my antenna. I'll probably do it this weekend.

I will tell you then.

[BlackAdam]

Ok, I am a total n00b to this entire thing, no please bare with me. I have a Hauppauge WinTV PVR-150MCE running Windows Media Center 2005. I have cable running to a STB, running to the card, and of course with an IR Blaster. I would like to purchase a Fusion 5 Lite, and run cable HDTV to this card. Now, I know I'm going to have to split the cable to run to the Analog tuner and the Digital tuner... but am I going to need an HDTV STB to get cable HDTV to the Fusion 5? And what is QAM? And is it supported in MCE2005? Thanks in advance.

[Cliff Watson]

Just installed the F5 lite. I have the same prob where scanning wont pick up digital channels at all, none. I have to manually add them in. The good news is that with the F2, abc would stutter very badly but the F5 so far is stutter free :). ABC on the F2 would drop signal from 68%-0 and just keep doing it.

HybridHB,

DVico just sent me a new tuner driver that fixed the OTA tuner scan problem on my F5 Lite card.

You need to unzip the two files into Program Files > DVICO > FusionHDTV > Driver folder and in Device Manager manually update the ZuluTune driver. It will be the non-BDA tuner driver listed in device manager properties.

[Peter Nagy]

So far four pages about this thread and no one seems to be using MCE 2005 with Fusion 5. Anyone using Fusion 5 with MCE and does it work better than Fusion 3 as far as reception is concerned?

I know it's a little early but so far from reading this post, Fusion 5 LG 5th generation tuner seems to be more of a hype than for real when it comes to OTA reception. Thanks for being guienna pigs and I will most likely not buy Fusion 5. If you are not happy with Fusion 5 compared to other HDTV tuners you already own, I suggest you try to return Fusion 5 for a refund. It's not fair the way LG over-advertise their product making look like they found a cure to OTA reception (multi-path or not). It's like watching prescription medicine commercials.

I currently use MCE 2005 with ATI HDTV Wonder and AverMedia A180 and it now works great. I was having a small and sometimes annoying problem with one station in particular: FOX. The channel is 11-1 and RF Frequency channel is 44 (~651 MHz). I have indoor VHF (rabbit ears from Radio Shack) and UHF (Silver Sensor) antennae connected to special VHF/UHF combiner (Radio Shack #15-1237). The combiner is then connected to 4 way splitter to: 1) ATI HDTV Wonder, 2) A180, 3) Hauppauge 150MCE and 4) 60" XBR LCD rear projection TV. While watching FOX program, the picture would drop out and then come back while I am walking by or waving at the antennae. I could never figured out why until today. It was not multi-path, but it was the Silver Sensor UHF antenna. I replaced it with Terk HDTV antenna. Terk antenna is larger and taller than Silver Sensor. The picture no longer drops out while I walk by or wave my arms at the antenna. My house is not surrounded by tall buildings, tall trees or mountains (too far away). Now I can have a life, stop troubleshooting and enjoy watching perfectly clear HDTV programs (CBS, NBC, PBS, ABC, FOX, & UPN).

I also own Fusion 3 for backup in case other HDTV tuner(s) break. I have used Fusion 3 with ATI HDTV Wonder and MCE 2005 successfully, but I prefer my current setup.

Thoroughly check your antenna before purchasing Fusion 5.

Peter

[jeffspam]

Got the card (F5G) today, and I've been playing with it for the past few hours. I'm in the Cobble Hill section of Brooklyn, on the 3rd (top) floor of a brownstone. I've had TERRIBLE, if any, reception with the various cards I've had in the past (AccessDTV, F3Q). Analog channels are usually a mess of mutipath, interference, and just generally crummy reception. Since I rent, I don't have the option of erecting an antenna external to the apartment. I have a Silver Sensor, as well as a few other cheapie, generic antennas.

I first setup the Silver Sensor on top of the shelf I have my PC on, and plugged it into the older Fusion 3 card I own. Nothing doing... I was getting 3-10db (11%-38%) depending on the channel, with the exception of a 19db/70% on channel 25 - though not even close to a usable signal. So I pulled the Fusion 3 and replaced it with the Fusion 5 Gold, and replaced the drivers with the 3.0b2 set shipped with the card. Using the same antenna in the same position... nothing doing. Signals were maybe 10% better than the F3, but again, nothing usable. Note that I wasn't aiming the Silver Sensor. So, I replaced the antenna with one of the cheapies. Still, no good. Maybe my impression that the 5th gen LG chip could use a paperclip for an antenna was a little far fetched.

So, I have some RG6/U (about 50ft) leading out to the fire escape. I setup the cheapie antenna out there and tried again. It was a little better, with signal strengths between 10% and 70%, but still NO video was being displayed. I was finally able to pick up ch. 28 (NBC) intermittently, but video was choppy. I then hooked up the Silver Sensor and pointed it in the rough direction of ESB. Finally, some video! But still choppy and not really watchable. But, as the night progressed, the signals became more and more usable. Signals in the 60-70% range were normal, and around 1:15am I started to get solid picture with very few dropouts on many channels. This is by far the best I've ever been able to accomplish on ANY HD tuner, but I wonder how much of this has to do with favorable propagation (I've always had better luck tuning HD at night).

I'm exhausted and really want to go to bed, but let's cut to the chase: the F5 does provide some better results, but it doesn't seem to me to be the miracle worker I had hoped for. At this point, I'm able to tune about six digital stations with the Silver Sensor outside the building, pointing at ESB. But let's wait until 8pm tomorrow when I try to record something.

UPDATE: As of around 9:30AM, I'm getting a number of channels at surprisingly strong levels. NBC at 85-99% (23.7-26.9db), FOX at 97% (26.3db), WOR @ 70%/18.8db, WPIX @ 86%/22.9db... and all with watchable pictures (no significant stuttering/jumping). I've never been able to getnything close to this with the F3 card. But others are still just not coming in at all. Can't get CBS, for example, at more than 26%/7.2db, and they've got what I'm told is a very strong signal.

Question: Is there any way to access the recording scheduler without launching the Fusion app? I'm often remote desktoped into my PC, and if I launch the Fusion app, it freaks out because of the weird display.

Question: People have mentioned RC3. Who did you email to get into this beta? I'm having issues with ABC causing the Fusion app to crash (well, more like an instant stop).

[Karyk]

Just installed the F5 lite. I have the same prob where scanning wont pick up digital channels at all, none. I have to manually add them in. The good news is that with the F2, abc would stutter very badly but the F5 so far is stutter free :). ABC on the F2 would drop signal from 68%-0 and just keep doing it.

I don't know if this will help (because I haven't bought a 5 yet), but on my 3 it scans if I set the scan to digital only and QAM 256. It does crash a bit after getting past the local HD channels (which for me are 81-84), so I have to stop the scan after that point.

[mosquito]

I have a Silver Sensor, as well as a few other cheapie, generic antennas.

The Silver Sensor is a fairly directional antenna. You don't mention what the other "cheapie" antennas that you have look like. In your situation, a plain old loop antenna may be a good option to try out.

It's good to hear that you're at least getting SOME success with it as compared to the Fusion 3.

[lazyn00b]

My Fusion 5 Lite doesn't get delivered until later today, so I pimped out my DB4 for a little "ghetto" multipath rejection. To my utter amazement, this actually added 10% signal across the board! Check it out (needless to say, I am not married):

[HybridHB]

HybridHB,

DVico just sent me a new tuner driver that fixed the OTA tuner scan problem on my F5 Lite card.

You need to unzip the two files into Program Files > DVICO > FusionHDTV > Driver folder and in Device Manager manually update the ZuluTune driver. It will be the non-BDA tuner driver listed in device manager properties.

Thanks but it wont install for me:(. Ill try anoher method later.

[Cliff Watson]

Thanks but it wont install for me:). Ill try anoher method later.

HybridHB,

Just wait until DC gets a new full install software package posted later today.

[revgen]

... And what is QAM? And is it supported in MCE2005? Thanks in advance...

QAM is a type of digital transport signal used by cable companies to deliver TV to your cable box. QAM support means that your card can decode unencrypted HDTV QAM signals.

[HybridHB]

Yea im about to install the whole package again. I copied the whole cd to my hd then replaced the 2 files in the drivers folder. Hopefully it works this time.

[TPeterson]

HybridHB,

DVico just sent me a new tuner driver that fixed the OTA tuner scan problem on my F5 Lite card.

You need to unzip the two files into Program Files > DVICO > FusionHDTV > Driver folder and in Device Manager manually update the ZuluTune driver. It will be the non-BDA tuner driver listed in device manager properties.Cliff, my guess is that this driver change improves channel scanning but does not affect performance after the tuner has "locked" on a channel--i.e., it doesn't change the outcome of the comparison tests you posted before. Is that correct?

[Cliff Watson]

Cliff, my guess is that this driver change improves channel scanning but does not affect performance after the tuner has "locked" on a channel--i.e., it doesn't change the outcome of the comparison tests you posted before. Is that correct?

That is correct. For some reason it was not looking for 8VSB on the channel scan, now it does.

[the_bear89451]

... I have indoor VHF (rabbit ears from Radio Shack) and UHF (Silver Sensor) ... the picture would drop out and then come back while I am walking by or waving at the antennae. ...

I see that Fox Reno has requested to stay on 44, http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=48360
I whish they would use vhf-hi from Slide like everyone else, because people like rabbit ears.

[Omnius]

My F5 Lite arrived on Monday. I haven't had enough time to do any significant watching. However, my initial results are good. I live 45-50 miles away from the broadcast towers. There are no tall buildings nearyby, but there are a LOT of tall trees between my antenna and the direction of the towers.

I first tried an ATI HDTV Wonder back last November and could hardly get any watchable signals at all, so I returned it. The tuner in my Dish Network 811 receiver had no problem locking on and providing a watchable picture on most of the local digital channels. The F5 Lite performs about like the 811, I can lock on and get a watchable picture on most of the local stations.

So, it is a very unscientific test because its been half a year since I tried the HDTV Wonder. But ignoring the fact that it is summer now instead of winter, and that the stations might have changed the amount of power coming out of their towers (don't think they have, but you never know)... I believe the F5 Lite does have a better tuner for my situation at least.

And to those asking about MCE2005, that is what I am running with the F5. It appears to be working ok... but like I said I haven't had time to mess with it much, so I can't say for sure how well it works.

[BlackAdam]

QAM is a type of digital transport signal used by cable companies to deliver TV to your cable box. QAM support means that your card can decode unencrypted HDTV QAM signals.Am I going to find any unecrypted HDTV QAM on my Time Warner Cable (Los Angeles area) or is it all going to all be encrypted? And can coax carry HDTV from a cable box to the Fusion 5? I'm looking to place an order with Digital Connection before noon, so they can ship it out today. So, I'd like to get some fast responses if possible. If I'm buying this thing, the reason I'll place an order this fast is so I can watch ArenaBowl XIX this weekend in HD... too bad my Los Angeles Avengers aren't going. Thanks guys!

[HybridHB]

Anyone else use the new driver files and still cant pick up any channels? I still have to manually add the channels :(.

[Cliff Watson]

Anyone else use the new driver files and still cant pick up any channels? I still have to manually add the channels :(.

Did you check device manager to see if all 5 drivers are properly loaded?

[HybridHB]

Yup. Everything is installed properly. Its actually acting a bit weird now. If i scan the first time, it wont pick anything up. Scan a second time and it picks up 1 or two channels with decent signal (70-80%). Now if i keep scanning, itll either pickup the same 2 channels or not. The other channels that i do get (the ones i have to manually add in) have much stronger signal (90-100%). I dunno whats up with this thing. I know so far it works better but the software has a long ways to go.

[Karyk]

Am I going to find any unecrypted HDTV QAM on my Time Warner Cable (Los Angeles area) or is it all going to all be encrypted? And can coax carry HDTV from a cable box to the Fusion 5? I'm looking to place an order with Digital Connection before noon, so they can ship it out today. So, I'd like to get some fast responses if possible. If I'm buying this thing, the reason I'll place an order this fast is so I can watch ArenaBowl XIX this weekend in HD... too bad my Los Angeles Avengers aren't going. Thanks guys!

Check the thread on your local cable provider in the local reception forum here at AVS.

[Steve Schauer]

In the city:
Got the card (F5G) today, and I've been playing with it for the past few hours. I'm in the Cobble Hill section of Brooklyn, on the 3rd (top) floor of a brownstone. I've had TERRIBLE, if any, reception with the various cards I've had in the past (AccessDTV, F3Q).
....
UPDATE: As of around 9:30AM, I'm getting a number of channels at surprisingly strong levels. NBC at 85-99% (23.7-26.9db), FOX at 97% (26.3db), WOR @ 70%/18.8db, WPIX @ 86%/22.9db... and all with watchable pictures (no significant stuttering/jumping). I've never been able to getnything close to this with the F3 card. But others are still just not coming in at all. Can't get CBS, for example, at more than 26%/7.2db, and they've got what I'm told is a very strong signal.
In the country:
My F5 Lite arrived on Monday. I haven't had enough time to do any significant watching. However, my initial results are good. I live 45-50 miles away from the broadcast towers. There are no tall buildings nearyby, but there are a LOT of tall trees between my antenna and the direction of the towers.
....
I first tried an ATI HDTV Wonder back last November and could hardly get any watchable signals at all, so I returned it. The tuner in my Dish Network 811 receiver had no problem locking on and providing a watchable picture on most of the local digital channels. The F5 Lite performs about like the 811, I can lock on and get a watchable picture on most of the local stations.

This is encouraging.

[BlackAdam]

Ok, I splurged and just bought the card... once it arrives (hopefully by Friday, since I have good experience with UPS Ground being fast, especially from somewhere as close as Huntington Beach) I'll check out QAM with cable, and if that doesn't do too well, I'll buy an antenna.

[gameboy]

Just got the card, YAY!!!

Will report back the results tonight. But on a first glance, MAN THIS THING IS SMALL!!!

I've had My-HD100 and ATI HDTV and this thing is about half the size, which is really nice since I want to put this on a slot next to my Video card and hopefully won't block the GPU fan.

I have MCE2005, so I will be able to tell you how well it works with it.

Gameboy

[christontoast]

The title says it all. I live in the Valley (San Fernando Valley) in LA county and am considering getting a fusion 5.
Info:
I get NTSC OTA excellently as I am on the top floor of a 3 story building.

My rabbit ears have a loop as well.

I checked the web and I am 22 miles from the broadcast towers. I do not know what obstructions are present, but I have high hopes.

Any educated guesses? I'm not surrounded my tall buildings or lots of trees, just a mountainous range all around as I live in the valley.

What are my chances in picking up the whole range of channels crystal clear?

THanks
-Christontoast

[BlackAdam]

Glad to see I'm not alone here...

<--Granada Hills

[Patrick Collins]

Cliff,
I'm having a high end HTPC built for me. I spec'd out the best of everything (with in reason) starting with a Silverstone LC14-MB and a Fusion 5 Gold from DC. The Fusion 5 arrived after everything was up and running with no problems. When they added the Fusion 5, it crashed big time. They ended up wiping the hard drive and starting over. The only question they had for me was, "do I need all of these remotes" (ATI Theater 550, MCE, Silverstone/ iMON and Fusion 5). My question is, could my "crash problem" be rectified by DC Fusion 5 update?

[e vey]

for gameboy:

--I've had My-HD100 and ATI HDTV--

Don't split that signal too many times or you may not see much. Splitting a signal 3 times-- total-- inside and outside, is about all I would think about. Antenna signals aren't as strong as cable.

[Peter Nagy]

I wish they would use vhf-hi from Slide like everyone else, because people like rabbit ears.

Me too. :rolleyes:

[Cliff Watson]

Patrick,

I have no idea why your new computer is crashing. The only change in the new software that will be posted at DC is in the WDM tuner driver and I'm assuming you will be using MCE (BDA driver didn't change).

As for remote control the iMON PAD supports MEC and the FusionHDTV card.

[Steve Schauer]

The title says it all. I live in the Valley (San Fernando Valley) in LA county and am considering getting a fusion 5.
Info:
I get NTSC OTA excellently as I am on the top floor of a 3 story building.

My rabbit ears have a loop as well.

I checked the web and I am 22 miles from the broadcast towers. I do not know what obstructions are present, but I have high hopes.

Any educated guesses? I'm not surrounded my tall buildings or lots of trees, just a mountainous range all around as I live in the valley.

What are my chances in picking up the whole range of channels crystal clear?

THanks
-Christontoast
It all depends. IF the digital stations are transmitting from the same locations as the analog stations you're receiving, and IF they are transmitting at a reasonable wattage, you should have no problem.

Check out antennaweb.org and find out what direction your digital stations are transmitting from. Then, if there is one, try tuning in an analog UHF channel that is coming from the same direction. That's a reasonable predictor of success. On analog, snow means weak signal, ghosts mean multipath.

[aljohnso]

I got my Fusion 5 yesterday.

I also have an original (two RF in) Fusion 3 gold.

I am running it in a Shuttle, with nforce 2 motherboard and AMD 2500 Barton and an ATI 9600XT.

The F3 was having a lot of problems with cable whereas my location and roof antenna gave very clean OTA. I don't think it will be useful to compare the F3 and F5 for OTA here. My cable run from the roof antenna is straight to the F3. I am looking through a large power line array at the transmitter, and there are a line of large buildings 3 miles to the side.

The F3 only got the locals on cables, with some microstuttering.

The F5 saw twice as many signals on cable (10->20), and gave me twice as many watchable channels (5->12). Before, many of the new channels were just blank screens. There is still a problem with subchannel IDs (DVICO says it would take two tuners to fix that) on some of the channels, but you can look for them manually. The microstuttering problems seem to have gone away.

I would like to see a two input F5 - I am very pleased with my results. I may start watching cable.

Anyway, this was using RC2 software for both cards - while the F3 was not listed, when I used the F3T driver it seemed to work. This was late at night - there was evidence of some work on the cable system (one subchannel came up with the label "test"), so I am not sure how stable these results will turn out to be. Standard caveats apply.

As I said elsewhere, my work with coax suggests to me most installations will have a lot of echos (multipath), unless you are very good about terminating unused drops and use very good splitters and cable. Even so, if you step on or crimp a cable it can start ringing.

Your Mileage Most Certainly Will Vary.

Allen

[sparcle]

I am a newbie to the HD on mce so please bare with me. I just received the F5g yesterday and I had a chance to try it out on mce2005. I can get 12 of 16 HDTV channels but no sub channels. I was able to manually get most of the sub channels. I have had a different problem. The F5g has slowed my htpc. I have a k8n mother board with a 3200 athalon and 1 gig of ram. 5 of the 12 channels I get shutter. The quality of the picture is slightly better than cable and it’s not as good as my stand alone Samsung ota receiver. I have an ati 9600se video card with DVI to comp adapter. The TV shows the input at 1080i.
Is this standard for a pci card in an htpc? Any help would be appreciated.

[terranaut]

is RC3 really coming out later today (its 6pm EST), because i just got my v5 card to replace my v3 card, ive already uninstalled RC1 totally and dont want to install RC2 if RC3 is coming out within 24 hours....
cant wait to see what difference i get here in downtown west palm beach, i have the db8 antenna roof mounted

[Cliff Watson]

is RC3 really coming out later today (its 6pm EST), because i just got my v5 card to replace my v3 card, ive already uninstalled RC1 totally and dont want to install RC2 if RC3 is coming out within 24 hours....
cant wait to see what difference i get here in downtown west palm beach, i have the db8 antenna roof mounted

RC3 ships with the F5 card. If using MCE you don't need to upgrade the software, however, if using Windows XP you need to download the corrected RC3 software to get OTA channels to scan correctly.

Digital Connection has the updated software posted on this page.

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/fusion5lt.asp

[terranaut]

argh, my fusion5 gold has rc2 on the cdrom in writing, plus on the files themselves, any link to rc3 you know of?
and i am OTA only, so i need to get a modified version of rc3 as well?
i contacted dvico two days ago and no response...
tx

[terranaut]

the digitalconnection link you gave, it shows for LITE is it ok for gold version as well?

[Cliff Watson]

argh, my fusion5 gold has rc2 on the cdrom in writing, plus on the files themselves, any link to rc3 you know of?
and i am OTA only, so i need to get a modified version of rc3 as well?
i contacted dvico two days ago and no response...
tx

Really? My F5 Lite CD is marked Ver. 3.0 RC3

I edited my post to provide the link to software download.

[Cliff Watson]

the digitalconnection link you gave, it shows for LITE is it ok for gold version as well?

Yes it is. You select the model number from a menu during the install.

[jeffspam]

The Silver Sensor is a fairly directional antenna. You don't mention what the other "cheapie" antennas that you have look like. In your situation, a plain old loop antenna may be a good option to try out. Sorry -- the cheapie I used was a <$20 GE model I picked up from Target. It has rabbit-ears for VHF and a loop for UHF. It's called the "Millennium(tm) TV Antenna".

[jeffspam]

argh, my fusion5 gold has rc2 on the cdrom in writing, plus on the files themselves, any link to rc3 you know of?
and i am OTA only, so i need to get a modified version of rc3 as well?
i contacted dvico two days ago and no response...
tx Same thing here -- rc2. The splash screen says 2.99.09. But I did have the option to select a F5G during the install. So I guess I'm really confused.

[Cliff Watson]

Jeff,

The download I point to is RC3 2.99.10 and according to DVIco 3.0 Gold should be released by the end of this month.

[RayL Jr.]

The title says it all. I live in the Valley (San Fernando Valley) in LA county and am considering getting a fusion 5.
Info:
I get NTSC OTA excellently as I am on the top floor of a 3 story building.

My rabbit ears have a loop as well.

I checked the web and I am 22 miles from the broadcast towers. I do not know what obstructions are present, but I have high hopes.

Any educated guesses? I'm not surrounded my tall buildings or lots of trees, just a mountainous range all around as I live in the valley.

What are my chances in picking up the whole range of channels crystal clear?Maybe these links can help:

Antenna/reception links
See broadcast television stations wihin the given range of your location (http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp)
Latitude/longitude finder (http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/gazetteer)
Magnetic declination - values of time/date/locaton... (http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/declination.shtml)
Antennaweb - finding local TV statios/support (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx)
DTV Stations on the Air - state map selection (http://www.digitaltvzone.com/dtv_stations_on_air/index.asp)
UHF conversion charts (channel/frequency) - CATV - TV - FM Frequencies (http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/catvfreq.html)
TitanTV (http://www.titantv.com/quickguide/quickguide.aspx)
Custom topographic maps - free preview (http://www.mytopo.com/index.cfm) 6/8/2005

I was able to find my tilt angle as well from antenna-tower heights & included earth curvature into spreadsheet equation:

Antenna tilt angle
Distance to tower (miles) 8.65 45,672.00 (feet)
Height of transmission (from Sea Level) 410.00
Height of antenna (from Sea Level) 1,245.00
Height difference antenna-transmission tower 835.00
Gross tilt angle to point antenna (degrees) 91.05

Earth circumference equator (miles) 24,902.00
Earth circumference poles (miles) 24,860.00
Mean earth diameter (miles) 7,926.55
Mean earth radius (miles) 3,963.28
Net height formed w/earth curvature (miles) .009 49.84 (feet)
Net tilt angle to point antenna (from Theta, 90 degrees level) 91.11

[terranaut]

the link for rc3 is timing out for me over the past 3 hours repeatedly.....is there any other links for this app? im on a cablemodem with 6.7mbps, but with this one file i hover at 1-2kbs....
thanks for any help/link

[Cliff Watson]

The server is overloaded. My email is also very slow.

[gameboy]

Hi Cliff,

Bad news. It looks like my card is DOA.

First, it feels very loose in the slot no matter how hard I push down on the card. I did my best to secure it and follow the instructions on installation.

However, whenever I try to view anything, my MCE box is crashing and crashing hard (some blue screens).

I got as far as MCE detecting the signal levels but right after that it is crashing.

Is there something else I should be trying?

Very disappointed,

Gameboy

[gameboy]

This is pretty weird. It seems the analog tuner is working okay. I can watch analog channels using DVICO application. But whenever I try to watch digital channels it crashes.

I think I am going to cry.

[Cliff Watson]

Hi Cliff,

Bad news. It looks like my card is DOA.

First, it feels very loose in the slot no matter how hard I push down on the card. I did my best to secure it and follow the instructions on installation.

However, whenever I try to view anything, my MCE box is crashing and crashing hard (some blue screens).

I got as far as MCE detecting the signal levels but right after that it is crashing.

Is there something else I should be trying?

Very disappointed,

Gameboy

Can you try another PCI slot? If it is loose it has to be a problem with the PCI slot connector cause the edge cards are all the same size.

[revgen]

This is pretty weird. It seems the analog tuner is working okay. I can watch analog channels using DVICO application. But whenever I try to watch digital channels it crashes.

I think I am going to cry.

Gameboy,

I had a huge problem when I first installed my card. It conflicted with my sound card and I couldn't get any sound. I took the card out of the slot, yet my sound card still didn't work. I ended up having to take out both cards and reinstall both of them one at a time.

Your card may be interfering with a important component on your system when using the digital mode.

Try doing what Cliff said and try a different slot.

[terranaut]

thanks cliff! got rc3 up and working, the 5 is in and running fine, i wish i could switch screens on my dual dell 2405 setup and have it run video in each screen dynamically, i was kind of hoping maybe that would be the one magic effect of this 5, but i do seem to get a bit over 5db better on tuning in digital channels, im getting ones located according to antennaweb over 80 miles from my location....ones way in south miami while im in downtown wpb
i get over a dozen stations total in digital not bad for the price of an antenna and hdtv card that equals two months of full cable/satellite, when you just want a few channels to know just whats going on in the world...

in wpb, i get a couple NBC, a couple ABC, a couple CBS, and two UPNs and a WARNER BROTHERS, then 3 spanish stations, some religious ones, a couple 24-sales-tv ones. a couple PAX and a couple PBS. those are all digital and some do dropout a few hours a day. so lets see how this 5 holds up to my old 3....

thanks again

[gameboy]

I have tried two different slots and have same problems...

I am almost done with downloading the latest driver (taken about 2 hours). We shall see if that fixes it. So far, I have no trouble with the analog at all.

My PCI slots are pretty full as I have 2 analog tuners and a Chaintech AV-710 sound card. I can try to take the others out, but I don't think this is going to resolve it...

[Peter Nagy]

I have tried two different slots and have same problems...

I am almost done with downloading the latest driver (taken about 2 hours). We shall see if that fixes it. So far, I have no trouble with the analog at all.

My PCI slots are pretty full as I have 2 analog tuners and a Chaintech AV-710 sound card. I can try to take the others out, but I don't think this is going to resolve it...

Try removing one analog tuner card, leave Fusion 5 disconnected, then run MCE setup to configure analog tuner. Then install Fusion 5 software and then install Fusion 5 card. Run MCE setup again to configure DTV.

[gameboy]

Now I have tried every slot to no avail. I haven't even bothered with MCE.

I even pulled out everything else out of their slots, and no difference.

I am using the FusionHDTV application to test it and every time I try to do a digital channel scan, it crashes.

I have tried everything short of reinstalling my OS. I am willing to try that, but I've got a feeling that won't make much of a difference...

[gameboy]

So I went ahead and did a fresh reinstall. Took all the cards out.

After the Windows install was done, I install the new drivers (off the Digital Connections link), shut down, installed the card, and restarted.

I did get further then before where I was able to AutoScan much of the channels. But it crashed when it got to about channel 41. After a reboot, I went directly to D18 (local Fox), and it played for about 5 seconds (the most beautiful 5 sec you ever saw...), then it crashed - it locks up and there is nothing I can do.

I checked the event logs and all I can find is "TV Tuner Malfunction (0x80040265) FusionHDTV, NTSC/ATSC WDM Tuner"

This is really weird. If I just stick to analog, it works just fine. Only when I try anything digital, it just locks up.

What the heck is going on? Do I need to send this back?

[Audball]

Got my card. First install I had all kinds of problems. No audio, kept crashing on certain QAM channels. Uninstalled then reinstalled, now everything is working as expected. When I use the DXVA decoder I get 90% CPU utilization. Switched to the other (non DXVA) decoder and selected "Highest Quality" now cpu utilization is down to 50%. Wierd I thought DXVA would use less cpu, since it allows your video card to do the decoding. I do have ATI 9600 which is DX9 compatible and an AMD XP 3200 with 1GB of RAM. What is everyone avg on cpu utilization on both decoders?

[gameboy]

Few more points....

When I switched to regular Fusion decoder (instead of BxD), I get a slightly longer playback. However, it blue screens instead of just locking up.

Ah, progress...

[TPeterson]

I checked the event logs and all I can find is "TV Tuner Malfunction (0x80040265) FusionHDTV, NTSC/ATSC WDM Tuner"

This is really weird. If I just stick to analog, it works just fine. Only when I try anything digital, it just locks up.

What the heck is going on? Do I need to send this back?It sure sounds as though you do. Do you have another PC in which to try the card?

[Platup]

Has anyone tried the RC3 drivers with a Fusion 3? Rumor has it that the RC2 & 3 show the signal meter correctly in MCE.

[Karyk]

Has anyone tried the RC3 drivers with a Fusion 3? Rumor has it that the RC2 & 3 show the signal meter correctly in MCE.

I'd be interesting in knowing how much of this channel scanning improvement (and any other non-reception issues) relates to the software.

[PHUNBALL]

Hey Guys-

If I don't currently have an HDTV tuner in my HTPC would the Fusion 5 be a good route to go or are there other cards that work better? The price on this one seems to be far below some of the others ($149 for the Gold). I currently use the tuner built into my Hitachi 42HDT51 and get all of the local digital/HD stations here in Atlanta (12-15 miles from the stations) with a Winegard antenna in my attic.

Thanks-

[gameboy]

I think I would hold off until things stabilize. This thing may not be ready for prime time yet, unless you like to tinker.

I've had better success with ATI HDTV card (and I can't believe I just said that...).

[Omnius]

I'm a little dissapointed. During testing, my F5 was doing great. Even got a steady signal on ABC in a fairly heavy rain the other day. However, last night when I finally sat down to watch something for real ("Lost" also on ABC) it started out ok but about 15 minutes into the show it started dropping out very badly until eventually MCE just displayed "No Signal Detected". I couldn't believe it. I stuck my head outside to see about the weather... no rain, no wind, ... maybe a little cloudy. I can only assume there was some awfull weather between the towers and my house... because it certainly seemed nice and calm here.

Just for kicks I closed down MCE and loaded up the FusionHDTV software and tuned to ABC. It reported signal of about 65% and displayed very choppy picture for a few seconds before my computer locked up. I just gave up after that.

[Karyk]

I'm a little dissapointed. During testing, my F5 was doing great. Even got a steady signal on ABC in a fairly heavy rain the other day. However, last night when I finally sat down to watch something for real ("Lost" also on ABC) it started out ok but about 15 minutes into the show it started dropping out very badly until eventually MCE just displayed "No Signal Detected". I couldn't believe it. I stuck my head outside to see about the weather... no rain, no wind, ... maybe a little cloudy. I can only assume there was some awfull weather between the towers and my house... because it certainly seemed nice and calm here..

I have a shortcut to a weather radar site on my HTPC, just so I can determine if that is what the problem is.

[GarthVH]

I ordered my fusion 5 lite from DC on sunday and received it today.

I downloaded the new driver and burned it to a cd to take home.

When I install for MCE do I want to install the whole set of programs, or just the driver?

If I want to try QAM I have to install the fusion software and use it correct?

Garth

[drsipe]

I received my F5-G on Thursday and had it running that day. My first mistake was trying to do two things at once. I made some changes to the BIOS right before I inserted the card and when things went south, I was quick to fault the F5. When I came to my senses and backed the BIOS changes out, everything else went smoothly. I used the drivers on the disk and I have no idea what they were. I will check it later to see if it is the latest. I set it up to record Leno overnight - can't wait to check that.

I choose to install the included DVD decoder, but I will need to compare the processor utilization for it against the NVidia one (assuming the Nvidia one doesn't expire on me). Since I have a 6600GT, I expect the NVidia to be better.

using both the included app and mce worked for the short time left in the day. I have no information on the picture quality at this time.

The signal strength showed that anything above ~40% was displayed and channels with about ~30% weren't. A few were right at 100%. I am west of Baltimore and my relatively small antenna (with preamp) on the roof is facing that way. I might have to climb up there and spin it so that it points halfway between Balt and DC. some of the DC stations were close to receivable. this was much better than the Samsung SIRT-150 - which I think is getting too much signal.

[weren1]

I ordered my fusion 5 lite from DC on sunday and received it today.

Uhg! I ordered mine on saturday and I am being told they are back ordered now and I must wait.

[Cliff Watson]

Uhg! I ordered mine on saturday and I am being told they are back ordered now and I must wait.

Did you order the Fusion 5 Lite or the Gold? The Gold sold out fast.

[BlackAdam]

Well, I got my card today, which was amazing, though sort of expected due to the proximity of Huntington Beach to the San Fernando Valley and the fact that I ordered it yesterday before noon. So, I have installed the card using the CD with is in fact 3.0 RC3, and just can't get the thing to get a signal at all. I have one cable line, coming in, and split, one to a PVR-150MCE (w/ STB) and one to the Fusion5. With the DVICO software, I cannot get any QAM channels to show up (Time Warner Cable)... and I don't know how to properly set it up to work in MCE. Any ideas?

[christontoast]

Howdy,

Turns out my card is arriving today as though I had paid for overnight UPS.. Perk of living so close. We'll cover the valley, BlackAdam.

Anyways, the question on my mind is, what are the proper installation steps to very simply get me watching and recording HD in no time? I'm tuning OTA only.

I figure it this way:
-Put the card in my comp.
-Attach the antenna.
-Install the latest drivers from the DVIco website.
-Orient antennas to 63 degrees per antennaweb (but since I have no compass, orient somewhere between 0 and 180)
-Run the software and auto scan channels
-If I am missing some channels, manually enter them using the channel displayed on antennaweb.
-Post my experience on AVSforum

Also, I have the demo software installed. It was working fine before, but now it is giving me an error "Connect video decoder to overlay mixer failed. Please close other multimedia players or change the video decoder to 'Dvico HDTV Video Decoder'." Then "Access Violation in ZuluPsiParse2.ax" Then it crashes to all hell.. I'll let you guys know what comes of this, or if a reinstall simply fixes it.

Is that about right? Any suggested ammendments?
-Christontoast

[HybridHB]

Anyone know if they plan to realease drivers and software for XP64?

[revgen]

Well, I got my card today, which was amazing, though sort of expected due to the proximity of Huntington Beach to the San Fernando Valley and the fact that I ordered it yesterday before noon. So, I have installed the card using the CD with is in fact 3.0 RC3, and just can't get the thing to get a signal at all. I have one cable line, coming in, and split, one to a PVR-150MCE (w/ STB) and one to the Fusion5. With the DVICO software, I cannot get any QAM channels to show up (Time Warner Cable)... and I don't know how to properly set it up to work in MCE. Any ideas?

1)There should be a utility called "signal checker" that is included with your software. Try running it and see what it finds.

2)If it finds nothing, then perhaps Time Warner is encrypting the QAM channels. If that's the case then you should buy an antenna and see if you can go OTA.

[jeffspam]

2)If it finds nothing, then perhaps Time Warner is encrypting the QAM channels.Here in NYC, TWC is not encrypting the locals -- but that guarantees nothing for any of their other systems. You might want to try to talk to someone in a high-end A/V store in your immediate area. Many HD sets with built-in QAM tuners have been on the market for a while now. Someone more knowledgable than your standard BB/CC employee might know if your cable co is sending QAM in the clear.

[GarthVH]

I installed my new fusion5 lite, and had a few problems. I got a blue screen once, and the fusion software crashed on some of the higher digital channels that showed up in a scan. I am using QAM with seattle comcast. Every channel I should have worked great, and a few others came in as well.

After that though it seems to be working OK, I have had a few stuttering problems after changing channels.

Using QAM with their software is a little buggy, and I really never watched a whole program because I only had a few hours to play with it, but I could watch and record HD channels from comcast.

Garth

[Karyk]

I have the same problem with it (although a Fusion 3) crashing on the upper channel scans in Seattle w/ Comcast. I stop it after it gets past the local HDs (past 84).

[BlackAdam]

So, I called up Time Warner Cable... they said that the local channels are being broadcast on Unencrypted QAM, but that they were being broadcast on a higher band than what my tuner card could see. They were saying that an HDTV cable box will bring those channels lower so I can view them. She would not tell me the physical address of each of those channels, and really ticked me off. She tried to persuade me to trade out one of my boxes for one after I told her that I knew for a fact that none of the Scientific Atlanta boxes can provide HDTV on COAX/CABLE OUT. I'm gonna go to Best Buy to pick up a Terk antenna, and then figure this out later. GAH!

[Karyk]

So, I called up Time Warner Cable... they said that the local channels are being broadcast on Unencrypted QAM, but that they were being broadcast on a higher band than what my tuner card could see. They were saying that an HDTV cable box will bring those channels lower so I can view them. She would not tell me the physical address of each of those channels, !

Find the thread in this forum that pertains to your local cable provider, and then search for QAM. Chances are it's posted, and if not, you can ask:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=45

But don't start a new thread in that forum!

[revgen]

So, I called up Time Warner Cable... they said that the local channels are being broadcast on Unencrypted QAM, but that they were being broadcast on a higher band than what my tuner card could see. They were saying that an HDTV cable box will bring those channels lower so I can view them. She would not tell me the physical address of each of those channels, and really ticked me off. She tried to persuade me to trade out one of my boxes for one after I told her that I knew for a fact that none of the Scientific Atlanta boxes can provide HDTV on COAX/CABLE OUT. I'm gonna go to Best Buy to pick up a Terk antenna, and then figure this out later. GAH!

BlackAdam,

I hope your not picking up an antenna too quickly. From what I understand from reading the the Los Angeles (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=191672) thread, the SF Valley doesn't offer the greatest reception. Try reading what others in your area are using first if you haven't already.

I hope this helps.

[BlackAdam]

Well, I went over to Curcuit City and picked up a Terk TV5. I set it over by the window and am getting 4-5 bars in Media Center for all of the local channels except for KCOP (UPN) and KTLA (WB). Not as good as what I thought, but there is nothing on those channels I will be missing in HD. However, for cable... I'm just stumped! I went through the Diagnostic Menu on my Explorer 8000HD on one of my televisions to check the frequencies of the HD channels... and am finding 573MHz and 747MHz for the five or so channels. I'm just stumped... FusionHDTV cannot see ANY channel coming from the cable, analog or digital. It's making me go crazy...

[revgen]

If your card is unable to recieve analog cable then it must be a problem with your card.

I can get recieve analog cable on my Fusion 5 Gold.

[BlackAdam]

I just reinstalled the drivers and software and can now see any Analog channel coming from cable, still no Digital channels coming in... and there is no thread in the "Local HDTV Info and Reception" forum for "Los Angeles, CA - Time Warner". Ugh...

[DPlettner]

Has anyone tried the RC3 drivers with a Fusion 3? Rumor has it that the RC2 & 3 show the signal meter correctly in MCE.

I installed RC3 from DC on both my 3T and 3Q. OTA scanning is great. It did not miss a single channel. Also, I think signal strength for OTA is now much more accurate. For my local CBS station, KPIX, I get around 68% using either Fusion card and my MyHD 130's.

I don't use MCE, but my guess is that if signal strength is now more accurate in the Fusion app, it would be in MCE also.

However, I do not think signal strength is accurate yet for QAM. My Fusion cards report 100%, while MyHD reports around 70%. Also, channel scanning using "All Modulation" does not work well for me. I get better results if I scan 64QAM and 256QAM separately.

-Dave

[Karyk]

IHowever, I do not think signal strength is accurate yet for QAM. My Fusion cards report 100%, while MyHD reports around 70%. Also, channel scanning using "All Modulation" does not work well for me. I get better results if I scan 64QAM and 256QAM separately.

-Dave

I always thought the signal strength on both was more an indication of signal quality, not strength, thus I wasn't surprised to see 100%

It's not surprising that you get better results scanning separately. I doubt there's that much difference between RC1 and RC3. Fortunately I'm only interested in QAM 256, so it's not really an issue for me.

[Cliff Watson]

I installed RC3 from DC on both my 3T and 3Q. OTA scanning is great. It did not miss a single channel. Also, I think signal strength for OTA is now much more accurate. For my local CBS station, KPIX, I get around 68% using either Fusion card and my MyHD 130's.

I don't use MCE, but my guess is that if signal strength is now more accurate in the Fusion app, it would be in MCE also.

However, I do not think signal strength is accurate yet for QAM. My Fusion cards report 100%, while MyHD reports around 70%. Also, channel scanning using "All Modulation" does not work well for me. I get better results if I scan 64QAM and 256QAM separately.

-Dave

Dave,

A couple of point about the difference between Fusion and MyHD signal strength.

On the high end for OTA both are very close in that 8VSB requires ~25dB for 100% SS. Fusion falls short on the lower end of the scale where both cards require ~16dB just to lock a signal. At 16dB MyHD reports around 20% and Fusion between 50 to 60%.

The reason Fusion reports 100% for all QAM channels is because the dB range has not been adjusted to reflect the 30dB requirement for 100% scale. MyHD was adjusted by subtracting ~6dB from the full scale reading.

[Karyk]

I doubt there's that much difference between RC1 and RC3. Fortunately

Wow was I wrong on this. RC1 had one non-certified driver, and didn't ask if you wanted to reboot before it was done. RC3 had many non-certified drivers, and did ask you to reboot before it was done. It's like a couple of steps backward!

But, so far it seems to work on my Fusion 3. And I might be mistaken, but now you can do something you couldn't do before--select QAM subchannels as favorites!

[DPlettner]

Dave,

A couple of point about the difference between Fusion and MyHD signal strength.

On the high end for OTA both are very close in that 8VSB requires ~25dB for 100% SS. Fusion falls short on the lower end of the scale where both cards require ~16dB just to lock a signal. At 16dB MyHD reports around 20% and Fusion between 50 to 60%.

The reason Fusion reports 100% for all QAM channels is because the dB range has not been adjusted to reflect the 30dB requirement for 100% scale. MyHD was adjusted by subtracting ~6dB from the full scale reading.

You're right. I went through the OTA channels on MyHD, and the worst one was 40%. Fusion reports that this channel at 68%.

If anyone ever starts a thread with the subject "What Fusion does better than MyHD" I think it would be a very short thread.

-Dave

[Karyk]

If anyone ever starts a thread with the subject "What Fusion does better than MyHD" I think it would be a very short thread.

-Dave

1. Crash.
2. Fail to record the program you requested.

But hey, I have more confidence in them than ATI! :)

[DPlettner]

1. Crash.
2. Fail to record the program you requested.

But hey, I have more confidence in them than ATI! :)

I said better! :)

BTW, the most recent official released drivers are working fine on my nVidia 5900XT and my 9800 AIW.

-Dave

[0ctane]

I doubt there's that much difference between RC1 and RC3. Fortunately I'm only interested in QAM 256, so it's not really an issue for me. When dealing with DVIco, the driver release can make a big difference. I have a F3-T, and the pre-RC releases worked pretty good. The RC1 worked better. The original RC2 was a piece of crap, especially for corrupting things during QAM. They quietly reposted a second RC2 after a number of complaints by me and others.
Huh, it looks like they pulled the 3.0RC2 driver from their site. I am not surprised.

[john12345]

Has anyone noticed if the Fusion 5 has better reception over the previous Fusion cards?

[Karyk]

Has anyone noticed if the Fusion 5 has better reception over the previous Fusion cards?

Have you tried reading this thread? That's what this thread is about!

[Patrick Collins]

I'm picking up my new HTPC tonight w/o the Fusion 5 Gold working properly. I spec'd out all the components but the guys that built it for me didn't get the F5 working within MCE05. They did get it working out of MCE and with the ATI Theater 550 installed, both NTSC and ATSC receiving acceptable signals. They're waiting for newer or better drivers from Fusion before the second attempt.

My question is, what combination of drivers, software, hardware etc. got the Fusion 5 working with