So who is going to be the first to get one of these professionally calibrated?!

Any input, regardless of resolution, whether it be 480i or 480p, 720p or 1080i, will be displayed 1080p. I can't go into the technical details of how its done, but I will say that the Qualia does a HECK of a great job doing it, so who cares how it gets the lines, it looks awesome :D

I seem to recall reading that Sony was at one time considering selling the Qualia scaler in an external configuration as a separate Qualia product for $4000, in addition to including it in its Qualia sets as it has. If that were the case, how likely is it that Sony would be able to include the same scaler for free in its $4000 or $5000 XBR1 sets? Obviously the scaler doesn't represent $4000 worth of goods, but perhaps it has a hefty per unit license for some high-end 3rd party tech that might preclude its inclusion in these lower priced sets - let's hope not.

JV: The store I bought from had a no return policy. I also got a 5 year warranty (really 4 years) with ulimited bulb replacement. If it looks anthing like the A20 60" set that I have I'll be tickled. I really had no choice. I don't like the new wobbulated chip in the new DLP sets. The picture looks too smooth and I don't like DLP technology to be honest. I had no choice since the only other set that I like is the JVC. They have had several generations to fix problems with their sets and improve contrast, etc. and it hasn't happened. I'm on the JVC site and I've read so many horrible QC issues over there and in my area one BB store isn't ordering anymore. I was in the store today and a broadcaster was on the set with a black suit. It became one big black blob with no detail That convined me that JVC was out.

Bob: I seriously thought about cutting the speakers off too. They are going to hang over a little but I'll get use to it. I guarantee the speakers will be the first to go on the next set. It would have been fine if the speakers were against the cabinet.

Guys I wouldn't worry about the price of the Quali. The first DVD player sold for thousands of dollars too. Companies put all there best technology into a new super high-end product many times. Then it gets great reviews and the company scales down the design and start mass producing their new design. The Sony SXRD may be better than a Quali who knows. But I would bet that it's very close in PQ.

A few quick questions:

Will the Vga port or I-link be able to handle a 1080P signal? Is there a way to hook up a computer to an I-link enbaled appliance? I have no experience with I-link are there a lot things with that connection? How does I-link compare to HDMI?

I seem to recall reading that Sony was at one time considering selling the Qualia scaler in an external configuration as a separate Qualia product for $4000, in addition to including it in its Qualia sets as it has. If that were the case, how likely is it that Sony would be able to include the same scaler for free in its $4000 or $5000 XBR1 sets? Obviously the scaler doesn't represent $4000 worth of goods, but perhaps it has a hefty per unit license for some high-end 3rd party tech that might preclude its inclusion in these lower priced sets - let's hope not.

I agree -- let's hope not :) However with the way technology is advancing I would not be surprised if these sets come 95% close to the Q's picture quality. Just look at how quickly HDTV prices have dropped this year and how quickly Sony is producing new models. I don't think the the Grand WEGA IV's even had a year shelf life which is pretty incredible!

Chris

I agree -- let's hope not :) However with the way technology is advancing I would not be surprised if these sets come 95% close to the Q's picture quality. Just look at how quickly HDTV prices have dropped this year and how quickly Sony is producing new models. I don't think the the Grand WEGA IV's even had a year shelf life which is pretty incredible!

Chris


95% close will be unacceptable to me. Why? When I was at Magnolia yesterday I put the Qualia thru it's paces and I was not as impressed as I thought I would be. Sony has done this before with new technology, the Qualia is basically a beta product for Sony, they could not mass produce the chips so the plans changed from being a 70XBR with a price tag of <10,000 to a Qualia at 13,000. One area I was unimpressed with was the contrast, the new chips are suppose to have 5,000:1 CR while the Qualia had 3,000:1 you also can factor in the dynamic iris and Sony claims 10,000:1 CR. The Other two areas the Qualia disappointed me was brightness and sharpness, the setting was pro mode. I am thinking that the 60inch screen size with take care of both of these issues. The screen the Qualia uses was way to reflective, I am hoping the SXRD's don't have this issue. So in short if the new SXRD isn't brighter,sharper, and with more contrast then I will not be keeping it. I know one thing the Qualia will be better in and that is build quality, but I more concerned with picture quality than I am heavy parts. Magnolia had a 65 inch Mits CRT I believe it was the model with 9" guns set up in another room I was much more impressed with that than the Qualia, I am shooting for that PQ with the new SXRD chips.

95% close will be unacceptable to me.

So in short if the new SXRD isn't brighter,sharper, and with more contrast then I will not be keeping it. I know one thing the Qualia will be better in and that is build quality, but I more concerned with picture quality than I am heavy parts. Magnolia had a 65 inch Mits CRT I believe it was the model with 9" guns set up in another room I was much more impressed with that than the Qualia, I am shooting for that PQ with the new SXRD chips.

>>YOU ARE IN FOR A HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT THEN. TO EXPECT TO PAY ABOUT 120% LESS, AND GET MORE QUALITY IS RIDICULOUS. MORE REALISTIC WOULD BE P.Q. THAT IS "ROUGHLY EQUIVALENT, OVERALL."

JUST GO OUT AND BUY THAT MITS, AND STOP JERKING THE STORE RETAILER AROUND. LEAVE THE SXRD FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS, AND WILL APPRECTIATE IT FOR WHAT IT IS. :rolleyes:

I just preordered a set too but have two issues that scare me:

1. The Qualia has a reflective screen and in the manual for the new 60" SXRD it states not to let direct light hit the screen for better viewing. In the A20 3lcd manual they don't mention this and I had that set with no glare at all.

2. I read a review that the Qualia takes 2 minutes to turn on. In the manual for the 60" it says 1 minute or less which is OK but 2 minutes would be breaking my legs. Have my fingers crossed.

95% close will be unacceptable to me. Why? When I was at Magnolia yesterday I put the Qualia thru it's paces and I was not as impressed as I thought I would be. Sony has done this before with new technology, the Qualia is basically a beta product for Sony, they could not mass produce the chips so the plans changed from being a 70XBR with a price tag of <10,000 to a Qualia at 13,000. One area I was unimpressed with was the contrast, the new chips are suppose to have 5,000:1 CR while the Qualia had 3,000:1 you also can factor in the dynamic iris and Sony claims 10,000:1 CR. The Other two areas the Qualia disappointed me was brightness and sharpness, the setting was pro mode. I am thinking that the 60inch screen size with take care of both of these issues. The screen the Qualia uses was way to reflective, I am hoping the SXRD's don't have this issue. So in short if the new SXRD isn't brighter,sharper, and with more contrast then I will not be keeping it. I know one thing the Qualia will be better in and that is build quality, but I more concerned with picture quality than I am heavy parts. Magnolia had a 65 inch Mits CRT I believe it was the model with 9" guns set up in another room I was much more impressed with that than the Qualia, I am shooting for that PQ with the new SXRD chips.

Joe,

I believe you will find the BL and CR much better than the Qualia 06 due to the
improved SXRD chip and the use of a dyanamic iris.

I am not sure regarding the brightness issue. The single advantage of the
.78 in. SXRD is that it has greater light output but of course this is not the only
factor related to brightness. The smaller screen size will help and also
viewing it in a darkened environment. I have a hard time believing a 65 in.
Mits CRT would be brighter though unless it was in torch mode.

Best regards,

Tony

I seem to recall reading that Sony was at one time considering selling the Qualia scaler in an external configuration as a separate Qualia product for $4000, in addition to including it in its Qualia sets as it has. If that were the case, how likely is it that Sony would be able to include the same scaler for free in its $4000 or $5000 XBR1 sets? Obviously the scaler doesn't represent $4000 worth of goods, but perhaps it has a hefty per unit license for some high-end 3rd party tech that might preclude its inclusion in these lower priced sets - let's hope not.You're talking about the Qualia 001. Currently available only in Japan. Here's a link describing it's abilities: ->Link<- (http://pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,119286,00.asp)
The Qualia 001 "Creation Box" is a little larger than a VCR and packs some of the Tokyo company's latest digital image processing technology. At the heart of the device is Sony's DRC-MFv2 digital video controller chip, which the company announced in August last year. The KDS-R60/50XBR1 include DRC-MFv2.

>>YOU ARE IN FOR A HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT THEN. TO EXPECT TO PAY ABOUT 120% LESS, AND GET MORE QUALITY IS RIDICULOUS. MORE REALISTIC WOULD BE P.Q. THAT IS "ROUGHLY EQUIVALENT, OVERALL."

JUST GO OUT AND BUY THAT MITS, AND STOP JERKING THE STORE RETAILER AROUND. LEAVE THE SXRD FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS, AND WILL APPRECTIATE IT FOR WHAT IT IS. :rolleyes:



You obviously have no clue, these chips are BETTER than the ones in the Qualia, and are suppose to have the same electronics. The only thing different is that these will not have the special glass screen. You obviously have no concept of how technology works it gets BETTER and CHEAPER. The Qualia was not a 13,000 television it was the same exact TV that was going to be a XBR for 9,000 so your 120% math is incorrect, and should give you a idea of what sony was doing. The same thing applies for Pioneer with the plasma last years model had a MSRP of 9,000 for the 50 inch, this years which is suppose to be much better with newer technology with MSRP for 6,000. Do you see a pattern? As far as jerking the retailer around I told him the same exact thing and he agrees 100% with me. The only thing that is ridiculous is that you think just because something cost more the year before means it is better. One more example is the Denon 5900, the replacement model this year was the 3910 and is half the price and better than the 5900. You obviously have no idea how electronic technology works.

I just preordered a set too but have two issues that scare me:

1. The Qualia has a reflective screen and in the manual for the new 60" SXRD it states not to let direct light hit the screen for better viewing. In the A20 3lcd manual they don't mention this and I had that set with no glare at all.

2. I read a review that the Qualia takes 2 minutes to turn on. In the manual for the 60" it says 1 minute or less which is OK but 2 minutes would be breaking my legs. Have my fingers crossed.

I've heard other people make such claims before, i presume non-owners, and as an owner who doesn't like to wait for anything, i can assure you the qualia 006 does not take 2 min. to start up.

the picture comes on within 15 sec. and is at full brightness (the uhd lamp is purposely brought up to full brightness slowly so as to increase life much the same as cooling is so vital when shutting down...not just to decrease the amount of time it would take to turn it back on again) in 30-45 sec.

there is no way i, or my family, could stand sitting around for 2 min. while a set turns on. i'm sure the GW SXRD sets will have the same or better on/off performance, particularly since they are lower wattage.

JKV4-

I have had my Qualia now for several weeks. Before and after purchase I read every media and consumer comment and review I could find, including the Qualia Owner's thread.

As is typical throughout videoland, I am convinced that some of the Qualia displays have not been representative of the set's abilities. We all know that source and set-up make all the difference. Interestingly you mention the "pro" mode. While this is almost heresy in the Owner's thread, I use "standard" setting most of the time. Even, gasp, "vivid" on occasion. It is entirely dependent on what's showing. While Sony's "pro" mode is capable of much more tweaking, it can appear softer, or duller on some material than a lot of people may prefer. Nothing wrong with that. I probably play music louder than other people, too.

I have always wondered if anyone else thought there was a double-edged sword about our high performance toys. It seems as though you can almost have a different setting for practically anything that's on. These new displays are so good, any subtle difference in a source is magnified, and I find myself sometimes more engulfed in trying to make the picture perfect, than just watching what's on. Like music, it should be the content that matters, but I can't help myself.

In just a few days we will all start seeing what these new sets are capable of. My prediction based on the tremendous performance of the Qualia is that the 50/60 SXRDs will be a fantastic set, maybe the "best" for some. Yes, there are some signifcant differences, some just unknown and others documented, that will distinguish the sets, but the result should be pretty good. I don't blame anyone for waiting on the outcome, rather than pre-ordering, but if I needed another TV this size, I wouldn't hesitate to get one.

so is it confirmed that this sets will be shown at CEDIA? and is it allowed to take pictures there?

JKV4-

As is typical throughout videoland, I am convinced that some of the Qualia displays have not been representative of the set's abilities. We all know that source and set-up make all the difference. Interestingly you mention the "pro" mode. While this is almost heresy in the Owner's thread, I use "standard" setting most of the time. Even, gasp, "vivid" on occasion. It is entirely dependent on what's showing. While Sony's "pro" mode is capable of much more tweaking, it can appear softer, or duller on some material than a lot of people may prefer. Nothing wrong with that. I probably play music louder than other people, too.



You are so "right" on this Sophie. I would even go as far as saying that if you don't have a good signal, either get a good signal or don't bother buying a high end set. Somewhat like getting a race car when all you have are dirt roads to drive on.

As to content, I'm with you there also. I never use pro mode and go between vivid and standard. I'd like to see Sony also provide a way to provide multiple black levels within modes, not just the brightness adjustment. Not a problem with HD, but what I find on SD is that content varies the black level from channel to channel / program to program such you either crush backs or have weak blacks depending on how you have it adjusted.

Bendover: I got the 2 minute time from a review but maybe the guy had a bad set or a pre-production model. I'm glad that the set gets to full brightness in under a minute it sound much like my old A20 set. I talked with a guy at Sonystyle who has seen the new set. He said the set may take a 1080P via the I-link but he wasn't sure so he is going to ask an engineer. I'm suppose to call back for an answer. He said the reflective screen is as good as the A20 and is similiar to the glass on an older XBR. I also found this about the Qualia:As part of the demonstration, they played a scene from the Spider-Man 2 DVD (yes, it's a Sony Pictures flick--in case there was any doubt in your mind). They then brought in a ringer, firing up the high-def Blu-ray version of the same film using a $3,000 Japan-only Blu-ray player/recorder connected via FireWire (or, as Sony calls it, iLink). The set was fed a 1080i signal but upconverted it to 1080p. (Sony reps said future Blu-ray players would be capable of outputting a native 1080p signal.)

Bendover: I got the 2 minute time from a review but maybe the guy had a bad set or a pre-production model. I'm glad that the set gets to full brightness in under a minute it sound much like my old A20 set. ...

I suspect that the reviewer turned the set off and then tried to turn it back on right away...the set takes much longer to start if you do this due to the UHP lamp requiring a specified cool down period before firing it up again otherwise life of the lamp will be greatly compromised.

BenDover how is the glare on the Qualia screen? Is it more like a plasma with reflections? Please tell me it's better then the old CRT sets.

BenDover how is the glare on the Qualia screen? Is it more like a plasma with reflections? Please tell me it's better then the old CRT sets.

My Q006 is in a basement media room and therefore I have no source of light that would be a source of glare; I also use back lighting when viewing the set in the evening hours when there is no outdoor light entering the room. When I have the room fully lit (about 15 recessed lighting receptacles with 60W each, I still am able to watch the set without any glare issues. This is not to say that the screen is not reflective...with the set off my daughter uses it as her mirror to practice dancing :)

From what I recall about the design of the screen, it actually uses the lighting that hits the screen to enhance the picture itself, within reason I'm sure.

Best bet is to see it and ideally see it in an environment that somewhat simulates your home viewing conditions...unfortunately, the displays usually found in your local BB, CC, etc. are not representative of home environments given all the lighting and the type of lighting.

95% close will be unacceptable to me. Why? When I was at Magnolia yesterday I put the Qualia thru it's paces and I was not as impressed as I thought I would be. Sony has done this before with new technology, the Qualia is basically a beta product for Sony, they could not mass produce the chips so the plans changed from being a 70XBR with a price tag of <10,000 to a Qualia at 13,000. One area I was unimpressed with was the contrast, the new chips are suppose to have 5,000:1 CR while the Qualia had 3,000:1 you also can factor in the dynamic iris and Sony claims 10,000:1 CR. The Other two areas the Qualia disappointed me was brightness and sharpness, the setting was pro mode. I am thinking that the 60inch screen size with take care of both of these issues. The screen the Qualia uses was way to reflective, I am hoping the SXRD's don't have this issue. So in short if the new SXRD isn't brighter,sharper, and with more contrast then I will not be keeping it. I know one thing the Qualia will be better in and that is build quality, but I more concerned with picture quality than I am heavy parts. Magnolia had a 65 inch Mits CRT I believe it was the model with 9" guns set up in another room I was much more impressed with that than the Qualia, I am shooting for that PQ with the new SXRD chips.

Hey, nobody is forcing you to spend thousands of dollars on a TV. If you don't like what you see don't buy it -- these SXRD models will most likely be surpassed in a year with even better models with better contrast ratios. CRTs have been out for ages and they have been perfected. High Definition sets have been out for ~8-9 years and it's going to take, unfortunately, quite a while until things become perfect.

It is surprising in this day and age that we have so many problems, but we do...

I really want to fall in love with these sets, but I much prefer the matte screen of the Grand Wegas and not the shiny screen of the Qualia. I really am hoping for the matte screen, it just seems more "theater like". I am also wanting to know if I can expect to get the same kind of discount on an XBR that can be had on the A10's or A20's. Also, does anyone think that a 1080P set makes 480 look worse than a 720P set?

A few quick questions:

Will the Vga port or I-link be able to handle a 1080P signal? Is there a way to hook up a computer to an I-link enbaled appliance? I have no experience with I-link are there a lot things with that connection? How does I-link compare to HDMI?

If your question is really about connecting your computer to a 50/60" SXRD,
you could use the VGA port, but at the frequency of 1920x1080, the signal would
be degraded by transmission line effects of the VGA cable (because VGA is analog).
If you want to connect your computer to the SXRD set, why not use the
HDMI port?

I really want to fall in love with these sets, but I much prefer the matte screen of the Grand Wegas and not the shiny screen of the Qualia. I really am hoping for the matte screen, it just seems more "theater like". I am also wanting to know if I can expect to get the same kind of discount on an XBR that can be had on the A10's or A20's. Also, does anyone think that a 1080P set makes 480 look worse than a 720P set?

I think you'll find that Sony didn't label this one a true XBR because they didn't want to limit sales to XBR centers only. Thus they put the XBR designation in the model # so the more intelligent folks (us :D ) would figure it out.

I think Sony did this because they need the $$$, plain and simple. They need to sell these things like no tomorrow. And yes, I think you'll find once the initial demand dies down the discounts will definitely be there.

Chris

Although I find these new TVs to be very interesting, I am having a hard time picturing the average consumer paying more for these than an equal sized plasma. A 50 inch plasma can be found for under 3,500 at most locations. The average consumer is in love with flat panel and I would venture to guess most would pick the plasma unless there was a price advatage to buying the SRXD. Just my two cents.

I suspect that the reviewer turned the set off and then tried to turn it back on right away...the set takes much longer to start if you do this due to the UHD lamp requiring a specified cool down period before firing it up again otherwise life of the lamp will be greatly compromised.

Which is why there is a fan.

And it's also why the fan is "nice to have" but not "need to have".

I note this for the UPS crowd.

RE: Impressions

I was initially unimpressed, primarily with respect to sharpness, with the Qualia I viewed for the first time at Magnolia some months ago, but after poking around there for a while (I have virtually no previous experience with modern large screen Sonys or their menu systems) I observed the noise reduction setting down near the bottom of the video menu. It was set to medium. I set it to off and then the Qualia looked significantly better than the "properly" set up 70 XBR and 60 XS flanking it. When I first arrived there the Qualia looked like crap by comparison, but oddly enough a salesman was there at that time showing it to a customer and commenting on how superior it looked. The customer didn't say much so I'm not sure what he thought, but eventually he left and the salesman went with him, thankfully, so I got some constructive time to myself. Some weeks later I visited another Magnolia and found the Qualia there set up with medium noise reduction also, which again was seemingly just not needed for the source they were using - canned HD sat I believe.

I guess my point is that if the store employees can be that oblivious to the picture itself and its basic settings, I can only imagine how wrong the whole install might be on any particular unit within a store - from oversplit and/or poorly connected source to no or incorrect calibration. Even though we all may be sophisticated enough to ensure all the user settings are optimal in the store, we may still be unimpressed with the Qualia or any other superior product, due to the factors in some particular store that we have no knowledge of, nor control over.

RE: Impressions

I was initially unimpressed, primarily with respect to sharpness, with the Qualia I viewed for the first time at Magnolia some months ago, but after poking around for some time (I have virtually no previous experience with modern large screen Sonys or their menu systems) I observed the noise reduction setting down near the bottom of the video menu. It was set to medium. I set it to off and then the Qualia looked significantly better than the "properly" setup 70 XBR and 60 XS flanking it. When I first arrived there the Qualia looked like crap by comparison, but oddly enough a salesman was there at that time showing it to a customer and commenting on how superior it looked. The customer didn't say much so I'm not sure what he thought, but eventually he left and the salesman went with him, thankfully, so I got some constructive time to myself. Some weeks later I visited another Magnolia and found the Qualia there setup with medium noise reduction also, which again was seemingly just not needed for the source they were using - canned HD sat I believe.

I guess my point is that if the store employees can be that oblivious to the picture itself and its basic settings, I can only imagine how wrong the whole install might be on any particular unit within a store - from oversplit and/or poorly connected source to no or incorrect calibration. Even though we all may be sophisticated enough to ensure all the user settings are optimal in the store, we may still be unimpressed with the Qualia or any other superior product, due to the factors in some particular store that we have no knowledge of, nor control over.

The best setting to see a Qualia product is in the Sony/Qualia stores but unfortunately not everyone has access to these. I had only seen the Q006 in such a Qualia store and have still not seen it in any other setting (e.g., BB, CC, Magnolia, etc.) but I have had the opportunity to see other sets in these non-optimal settings which I had also seen in high quality settings and the difference was night and day, to the point of awful!

As for the plasma comment, it may very well be true...the consumer has up until this point been conditioned to believe that the plasma sets were only for the elite/rich and now suddenly there are models that are cheaper than some regular RPTV. I think many regular consumers will bite at that apple, not knowing any better, but also because maybe they need/want the flat panel form factor, which is a valid buying criterion for many.

There is no "one size fits all" ...

Which is why there is a fan.

And it's also why the fan is "nice to have" but not "need to have".

I note this for the UPS crowd.

I presume you are advocating the use of a UPS?

I think something is about to hit the fan. :D

Wow....95 pages.
I am very interested in getting one of these 60" sets. I just returned a Mitsubishi 62725 62" DLP television. I saw rainbows all over the place. I was looking at getting an LCD, but I don't really care for them too much either.
It seems this LCOS / HD-ILA / SXRD technology is the best combination of LCD and DLP.
But the question here is, at $5,000 should I just buy a front projector and have a 100" TV via my wall.

I'm not too crazy about the speakers on this set at all. JVC's HD-ILA is only a 720p...and I can't seem to find any LCOS TV's on Hitachi's website.

Now that it is returned I have some time to go shop around and price together a front projection system vs. one of these sets.

The best setting to see a Qualia product is in the Sony/Qualia stores but unfortunately not everyone has access to these. I had only seen the Q006 in such a Qualia store and have still not seen it in any other setting (e.g., BB, CC, Magnolia, etc.) but I have had the opportunity to see other sets in these non-optimal settings which I had also seen in high quality settings and the difference was night and day, to the point of awful!

...

I would have hoped that Magnolia, or any other higher end shop, would be doing it better than the mass-market places, but it seems that other than the immediate environment (lighting, isolation, etc) they may, or may not, be getting it any more right at any particular time and place.

95% close will be unacceptable to me. Why? When I was at Magnolia yesterday I put the Qualia thru it's paces and I was not as impressed as I thought I would be. Sony has done this before with new technology, the Qualia is basically a beta product for Sony, they could not mass produce the chips so the plans changed from being a 70XBR with a price tag of <10,000 to a Qualia at 13,000. One area I was unimpressed with was the contrast, the new chips are suppose to have 5,000:1 CR while the Qualia had 3,000:1 you also can factor in the dynamic iris and Sony claims 10,000:1 CR. The Other two areas the Qualia disappointed me was brightness and sharpness, the setting was pro mode. I am thinking that the 60inch screen size with take care of both of these issues. The screen the Qualia uses was way to reflective, I am hoping the SXRD's don't have this issue. So in short if the new SXRD isn't brighter,sharper, and with more contrast then I will not be keeping it. I know one thing the Qualia will be better in and that is build quality, but I more concerned with picture quality than I am heavy parts. Magnolia had a 65 inch Mits CRT I believe it was the model with 9" guns set up in another room I was much more impressed with that than the Qualia, I am shooting for that PQ with the new SXRD chips.

I have sony plasmas at my business and the one thing is.. they are not sharp compared to other plasmas. That has been the one knock I know of against the Sony. I will wait until my local Magnolia has the 60" Sony SXRD in stock...then I will do a side by side comparison with it and the new Samsung DLP 56" 1920x1080.

OK. I'm rolling the dice on a new Sony SXRD 60" set. I just pe-ordered my set with a delivery date of 9-27-05. We shall see. I hope this set is close to the Qualia and not a dog. The set is non-refundable. My fingers are crossed on this one.


You ordered a set sight unseen with a non refundable price?

Wow..you have faith.

It's either going to be this 60" SXRD or the Samsung DLP 1920X1080. But I am going to wait to do a comparison.

You ordered a set sight unseen with a non refundable price?

Wow..you have faith.

It's either going to be this 60" SXRD or the Samsung DLP 1920X1080. But I am going to wait to do a comparison.

He only pre ordered, so isn't commited.

Like you, I'm going to do a side by side compare when my retailer
(Soundtrack) gets in the SXRD. I went there to see a side by side
of the 720 DLP vs 1080 DLP. both Sammys. They have both 61" and 56"
1080 DLPs, But they put their 56" 1080 set next to a 61" 720 set instead
of 61 next to 61! A smaller set will always look better than a larger set,
so naturally a valid comparison is impossible. The sales guy acknowleded
this mistake, so when I go back, he said he'd be willing to do a proper arrangement.
BTW, they also had a Mits 720 next to a 1080 Mits, both 61" DLP so it was
possible to do a valid comparison to see how much difference a 1080 panel
made. The difference was immediately obvious, and there is no way I'd settle for
a 1280x720 HDTV after seeing that.

The biggest problem in doing in-store shopping of HDTVs is that they never have
good comparison program material, they usually have a hi def loop which you can't control,
or worse, a DVD which, of course, is low def, so it's worthless as an evaluator.
So the sales guy said he would let me connect my computer to any sets I like.
I can then output my choice of various OTA HDTV files so I can see exactly what
I'm looking for. I'll view CBS Hi def football games, check for graininess
with CBS's Still Standing (one of 5 shows that have no graininess), or better yet, NBC's "Office" which is shot with a HDTV
video cam, so it has no graininess whatsoever.
This will also answer the question of whether their HDMI input can handle
computer output.

...snip.... I am also wanting to know if I can expect to get the same kind of discount on an XBR that can be had on the A10's or A20's.


Probably too early to tell.

I suspect that Sony will drop the price of their rear projection LCDs further, then price the SXRDs where the rear projection LCDs were. In other words, around $4,200 for the 60" sets. It may take 6 months or so for this to materialize. Quite honestly, I think it would probably be a good idea to wait anyway. As much as I'd like to jump on one of these new set when they first start shipping, there is an awful lot we don't know about them yet.

Wow....95 pages.
I am very interested in getting one of these 60" sets. I just returned a Mitsubishi 62725 62" DLP television. I saw rainbows all over the place. I was looking at getting an LCD, but I don't really care for them too much either.
It seems this LCOS / HD-ILA / SXRD technology is the best combination of LCD and DLP.
But the question here is, at $5,000 should I just buy a front projector and have a 100" TV via my wall.

I'm not too crazy about the speakers on this set at all. JVC's HD-ILA is only a 720p...and I can't seem to find any LCOS TV's on Hitachi's website.

Now that it is returned I have some time to go shop around and price together a front projection system vs. one of these sets.

Funky, there are JVC 1080p Dila's (supposedly) due out shortly (~60" & 70"), as well as LG 1080p Lcos (70") sometime in the near future. There are threads in this subforum about both. As for front projection, there is a rumor that Sony will be coming out with a 1080p SXRD FP at some price point significantly below the Qualia 004. Other than that possibility, you are mainly back to DLP and LCD with FP's in the price range of the 60" SXRD RPTV.

JKV4-

I have had my Qualia now for several weeks. Before and after purchase I read every media and consumer comment and review I could find, including the Qualia Owner's thread.

As is typical throughout videoland, I am convinced that some of the Qualia displays have not been representative of the set's abilities. We all know that source and set-up make all the difference. Interestingly you mention the "pro" mode. While this is almost heresy in the Owner's thread, I use "standard" setting most of the time. Even, gasp, "vivid" on occasion. It is entirely dependent on what's showing. While Sony's "pro" mode is capable of much more tweaking, it can appear softer, or duller on some material than a lot of people may prefer. Nothing wrong with that. I probably play music louder than other people, too.

I have always wondered if anyone else thought there was a double-edged sword about our high performance toys. It seems as though you can almost have a different setting for practically anything that's on. These new displays are so good, any subtle difference in a source is magnified, and I find myself sometimes more engulfed in trying to make the picture perfect, than just watching what's on. Like music, it should be the content that matters, but I can't help myself.

In just a few days we will all start seeing what these new sets are capable of. My prediction based on the tremendous performance of the Qualia is that the 50/60 SXRDs will be a fantastic set, maybe the "best" for some. Yes, there are some signifcant differences, some just unknown and others documented, that will distinguish the sets, but the result should be pretty good. I don't blame anyone for waiting on the outcome, rather than pre-ordering, but if I needed another TV this size, I wouldn't hesitate to get one.

sophie,

Thanks for the insight. I did have it on pro mode because like you said from the Qualia thread this is what I was reading was the best mode. Yes I did feel the picture was soft and had no punch to it, hence my description of hoping for more contrast, brightness and sharpness. I really believe the 60inch screen size will be key, because I remember thinking the same thing when comparing the 70XBR LCD and 60XBR LCD, the 60 inch just looked much better to me.

Just got back from Magnolia and the 67" Samsung DLP is in. I didn't play with it so the settings are probably out of box. The picture looked to be soft and there was much more noise present then on the 50" plasma near by. Obviously a larger set will show much more of everything. The feed looked to be good. I did like the cabinet with a bottom speaker to. This TV underwhelmed me like the 61" Samsung. I really wanted to like it because of the size but I don't think this version of the DLP chip is too fil like. The width on the 67" is smaller then the 60" SXRD that I ordered. I tried to see an XBR with a glass screen to see what glare would be like. All the stores were out of them. This is my biggest concern with the new SXRD is glare. I love the new matt screens so why put on a glass cover? Maybe it'll be fine?

SORRY! :o guys if this has already been covered, but will the SXRD be announced the first day of CEDIA? If not, does anyone know what day? Thanks.

Although I find these new TVs to be very interesting, I am having a hard time picturing the average consumer paying more for these than an equal sized plasma. A 50 inch plasma can be found for under 3,500 at most locations. The average consumer is in love with flat panel and I would venture to guess most would pick the plasma unless there was a price advatage to buying the SRXD. Just my two cents.First of all, you have to compare apples to apples. Yes, you may be able to get a 50" plasma for less than $3500, but not one of the higher end, better rated models. The new XBRs may very well turn out to be the best microdisplay based rear-projection sets on the market. Therefore, it is only fair to compare them to plasmas such as the Pioneer Elites or Panasonic ONYXs. These sets, while they have come down in price, are still substantially more than $3500. And your theory doesn't even come close to holding true for the 60" SXRD. If you want a plasma this big it will cost you a small fortune.

I happen to be a huge fan of plasmas. I have a 43" Pioneer in my family room and I absolutely love it. Unfortunately, I need a larger screen for my main home theater in the basement. If I could get a 61"+ plasma for close to the price of the new 60" SXRD, I would probably buy one. Unfortunately, this isn't the case. Therefore I am left with no other choice but to go with a different technology. Out of all the remaining technologies, SXRD has the most appeal to me.

With all the angst expressed in this forum about the possible "reflective"screen on SXRD sets, SONY XBR CRT (direct view) sets have a glass screen which is mildly reflective but adds a very nice depth and punch to the picture. I hope SONY is using a similiar screen rather than a dull matte screen.

BTW, I found the Qualia 006 screen to be much more reflective than the XBR screens mentioned above and annoyingly so on two occasions I had to watch the Q!!!

Just got back from Magnolia and the 67" Samsung DLP is in. I didn't play with it so the settings are probably out of box. The picture looked to be soft and there was much more noise present then on the 50" plasma near by. Obviously a larger set will show much more of everything. The feed looked to be good. I did like the cabinet with a bottom speaker to. This TV underwhelmed me like the 61" Samsung. I really wanted to like it because of the size but I don't think this version of the DLP chip is too fil like. The width on the 67" is smaller then the 60" SXRD that I ordered. I tried to see an XBR with a glass screen to see what glare would be like. All the stores were out of them. This is my biggest concern with the new SXRD is glare. I love the new matt screens so why put on a glass cover? Maybe it'll be fine?

HomeGuy,

This might help, the new Sony laptop's have screens that are called X-brite so if you can check those out it should be similar. Also after looking at the Qualia it seems it has a plastic screen on the outside but the glass screen is underneath that. The new SXRD's do not have the glass screen so maybe they have the matte screen underneath and the plastic glossy screen over it like the old Mits. DLP's?? To be honest I think the glossy screen gives the picture a more 3D look. I have seen the Mits. DLP's with the screen on and off and with the glossy screen on the picture was sharper and had a more 3D look to it. Hopefully the glare won't be to bad.

First of all, you have to compare apples to apples. Yes, you may be able to get a 50" plasma for less than $3500, but not one of the higher end, better rated models. The new XBRs may very well turn out to be the best microdisplay based rear-projection sets on the market. Therefore, it is only fair to compare them to plasmas such as the Pioneer Elites or Panasonic ONYXs. These sets, while they have come down in price, are still substantially more than $3500. And your theory doesn't even come close to holding true for the 60" SXRD. If you want a plasma this big it will cost you a small fortune.

I happen to be a huge fan of plasmas. I have a 43" Pioneer in my family room and I absolutely love it. Unfortunately, I need a larger screen for my main home theater in the basement. If I could get a 61"+ plasma for close to the price of the new 60" SXRD, I would probably buy one. Unfortunately, this isn't the case. Therefore I am left with no other choice but to go with a different technology. Out of all the remaining technologies, SXRD has the most appeal to me.

As far as the 60 inch screen size I agree with you. When you are talking 50 inch you can get the Panasonic 50 inch from CC for $3600 today. Last time I checked Panasonic was highly rated. As far as Elites and ONYX's your not paying for anything other than high gloss black bezels and extra year warranty, the glass and electronics are exactly the same. The new Elite 50inch has a MSRP $6500 new Pioneer Purevision MSRP $6000.

I would think the dull matte screen (like on the XS955) would have more potential for SSE (the fine sparkle/speckle effect in bright areas).

SSE or screendoor effect is directly related to the technology, not the screen..

Can I ask if $399 for adding 3 yrs extended service (including 1 bulb replacement) reasonable? Hope the posting of MSRP rules only apply to the set (else let me know and I will edit the post). Abt is taking orders for it and they have a good repair division and I live in their service area.

The sparkling effect has nothing at all to do with the construction of the screen..

Are you saying if sonyRp-lcds used Samsung or any other dlp screens there would be no Sparkling effect? To blame the construction of sonys Matte screen is insane imo...

Hey, does anyone know when the 70" version of the new sets are going to come out? I found the site today and was shocked. Do you think they are going to make it soon? Or did they scrap the idea?

here is the site

http://www.sonyxbr.com/70XBR1.htm

But, you say "the sparkling effect has nothing at all to do with the construction of the screen", so what causes it then in your opinion?


Just compare Panasonic dlps to thier Rp-lcds... You will much more "sparklies" on the rp-lcd than dlp... Simply because of better Fill factor in the Dlp....Not because of the screen construction... :rolleyes:

If Sony used the same matte screen on the Xs on thier sxrds there would be absolutley no Sparklies Screendoor effect... Well it would be 90% free from it compared to rp-lcd 60% Dlp-75%..

Just to clarify I talked with a SonyStyle rep who has training on the set and he said that the new sets have a glass screen with an antiglare coating. He said that the glare reduction is better than the A20 mate screens. I doubt it but if glass is coated properly it isn't horrible. Next time you look at a Plasma look at an angle at several different ones and you'll see that some do a great job of keeping glare at bay and others are not so good.

here is the site

http://www.sonyxbr.com/70XBR1.htm

Edit: Appears to be a fake. Oh well....

Just to clarify I talked with a SonyStyle rep who has training on the set and he said that the new sets have a glass screen with an antiglare coating.

Great job to Sony for not degrading the Xbr name and not using the Dull Matte screen... Some wont be happy i can bet though....

Just to clarify I talked with a SonyStyle rep who has training on the set and he said that the new sets have a glass screen with an antiglare coating. He said that the glare reduction is better than the A20 mate screens. I doubt it but if glass is coated properly it isn't horrible. Next time you look at a Plasma look at an angle at several different ones and you'll see that some do a great job of keeping glare at bay and others are not so good.



I am just curious, how can it have a glass screen and weight only 112lbs for the 60inch? This is the same weight as the 60XS955 with the matte screen. Hopefully these things don't weight 160lbs like all other models with glass screens.

here is the site

http://www.sonyxbr.com/70XBR1.htm

The specs are possibly going to be different from the 50 and 60 or
they probably would have filled these in. Maybe they will make
those who want a 1080p input pay for the 70 incher.

Same dumbo ears but will learn to live with them if this set
delivers...

Great job to Sony for not degrading the Xbr name and not using the Dull Matte screen... Some wont be happy i can bet though....


If the published spec weight is correct there is no way it will have a glass screen. It won't have the matte screen either, it will be a plexiglass type of screen similar to the X-Brite screens on the VAIO laptops.

A little follow-up to my Qualia post.

I am running component cabling from a Lexicon processer into which I have component inputs from digital/HD cable, DVD, and X-Box. Maybe the "pro" mode is different with HDMI, which is what most of the Qualia owners utilize. I have a 33' HDMI cable waiting for a custom installation when some new equipment arrive. I'll report on that if anyone's interested.

I have seen no SDE whatsoever from my SXRD, at very close distances. I believe that's the benefit of the fill factor being so high, especially compared with LCD technology, and specifically large LCD projection displays. I also am not bothered by any reflections or SSE, but I am in a dedicated room where I can control my light.

BTW, great scoop on the 70XBR SXRD. This version has been rumored to be in the works forever. I suppose the viability of it will depend to a great extent on the success of the new 1080P 70-73" sets from the competition.

here is the site

http://www.sonyxbr.com/70XBR1.htm

Not sure what this site is, but the domain name is not registered to Sony. It's owned by some guy in Santa Monica. So it isn't official information. I suspect site is there to advertise for the links along the bottom and the side.

here is the site

http://www.sonyxbr.com/70XBR1.htmDon't get too excited. I doubt John Wolf (john@allstarz.org) is responsible for registering Sony's domain names :rolleyes:

http://new.register.com/retail/gen-images/283c691d0a1e021d01933dab7fd0732c.jpg

Not sure what this site is, but the domain name is not registered to Sony. It's owned by some guy in Santa Monica. So it isn't official information. I suspect site is there to advertise for the links along the bottom and the side.

I just did a WHOIS and noticed that too. Interesting.

...


Same dumbo ears but will learn to live with them if this set
delivers...

That pic is simply a pic of the 50"...

That pic is simply a pic of the 50"...

Thanks - I am hoping the new 70 in. has removable speakers...

Thanks - I am hoping the new 70 in. has removable speakers...

you just got a 61 dlp...you plan on getting a 70" too? you must have some big rooms...

You obviously don't know the difference as evidenced by your inaccurate descriptions and your "Sparklies Screendoor effect" comment. :rolleyes:
They are different effects and have been described many times in many threads by many people (such as TomCat), including the XS955 owners thread that you frequent, but you are apparently unwilling or unable to comprehend the explanations of the differences and what causes them. I'm obviously wasting my time trying to help you understand the difference. Maybe someone else will have more luck! TomCat where are you?

I've personally always felt the definition of SSE to be rather ambiguous. SDE I can understand.

The reason SDE is less noticeable on DLP is partly due to wobulation and part due to increased fill inherent to the design.. That's the whole point of wobulation actually, although everyone seems to want to make it into a negative whenever it's discussed.

For an excellent source providing in-depth info about the differing technologies (and desription of their common artifacts) see http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1734380,00.asp

I posted this awhile back but no one seemed interested. Maybe people would rather argue I guess.

Here's a more direct link to the section on artifacts. http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1743319,00.asp

The wobulation of DLP is discussed in the final section.

you just got a 61 dlp...you plan on getting a 70" too? you must have some big rooms...


IF I get the 70 in. Sony, I will be selling the 61 in. Sammy - I haven't kept
a TV for over a year for some time. I am not in any hurry since I am
enjoying the Sammy and will also wait for 2006 CES to see what
TI and crew have up their sleeves. Resolution and sharpness is
not a problem on any of these new 1080p sets when fed a good clean
hi-rez signal. BL and CR and overall brightness are what I am watching
as well as color accuracy.

My next TV will be a 70 in. and I will keep it for a couple of years until
80 in. SED is in full production.

I wasn't really trying to debate SDE as its a given that SDE will not be an issue with the SXRDs. What I was trying to get a feel for was whether or not SSE (otherwise known as the fine sparkle effect that you get from the screen of just about every type of RP TV and that is most noticeable in light colored areas) is likely to be noticeable on the SXRDs if using the same type of screen as used on the XS955s, etc. I'm not saying that SSE is necessarily a big problem, its something that many people notice at first on their new RPTV (hence all the questions about it in numerous TV makers threads - I can see it on my Samsung DLP) but you tend not to notice it as much after a while, especially in a dimly lit room (bright lighting tends to accentuate it in stores). Even with an XS screen it probably won't be very noticeable under typical viewing conditions. I might be more concerned about reflections from windows and lamps in a glass/perspex screen.

Man you're fast!

I hadn't finished editing my reply to you and you had already made another.
Anyway, maybe go and reread my final version to you.

I'm not really convinced SSE isn't just much more visible SDE that people see on RPTV LCD as opposed to plasma and dlp. If it really is an artifact due to the matte screen then damn they should change that.

I agree that the screen is probably plexiglass. In the manual it states that the screen scrathces easily. Glass doesn't and the weight would suggest that there isn't a glass screen. This is pissing me off that we have to read between the lines. All the specs should be clearly layed out. This is poor marketing. There is something in the manual that states you may get black dos and different colors on some bright areas. Very strange. Dowload the manul and do a search for screen. I have to go back to work or I would post it here.

...
Thanks for the insight. I did have it on pro mode because like you said from the Qualia thread this is what I was reading was the best mode. Yes I did feel the picture was soft and had no punch to it, hence my description of hoping for more contrast, brightness and sharpness. I really believe the 60inch screen size will be key, because I remember thinking the same thing when comparing the 70XBR LCD and 60XBR LCD, the 60 inch just looked much better to me.

Any chance that the noise reduction was engaged? This can really hammer the image when used on a source that doesn't need it.

IF I get the 70 in. Sony, I will be selling the 61 in. Sammy - I haven't kept
a TV for over a year for some time. I am not in any hurry since I am
enjoying the Sammy and will also wait for 2006 CES to see what
TI and crew have up their sleeves. Resolution and sharpness is
not a problem on any of these new 1080p sets when fed a good clean
hi-rez signal. BL and CR and overall brightness are what I am watching
as well as color accuracy.

My next TV will be a 70 in. and I will keep it for a couple of years until
80 in. SED is in full production.

Tony- since you keep going up in screen sizes, and buy a new TV every year, have you considered going with a projector?

I guess there is still some debate over the type of screen to be used. I personally prefer the matte finish over a glossy finish. It just makes me think of a front projected image instead of a direct view image. I guess thats why people seem to prefer one over the other.

On another subject, I thought SSE was the "sparkling screen effect" caused by very bright (i.e. white) scenes and the ultra fine pitch of the screen material. I'm not sure, I don't own a microdisplay RPTV, but I think reducing the contrast (peak light output) and possibly the room lighting may reduce it. I do not think it has anything to do with the technology of the display (lcd, lcos, dlp).

It's all a question of how well the interpolating process is performed. It's obvious that it's always preferable to display something at its native resolution, but that's of course impossible, particularly in this case.

Well it's not that obvious. 480i/p sources can show lots of stairstepping, poor curves and pixellation at 60+" screen sizes. Upscaling and interpolation can alleviate those issues and provide a smoother, more pleasing picture in large screen sizes that 480i/p just isn't suited for.

We've been down this road before, you and I, and I still feel that you are wrong. SDE and SSE are NOT the same thing. SDE is a function of the pixel structure spacing (worse on RP-LCD and a relative non-issue with SXRD) and SSE (what most people refer to as the sparkle effect resulting from the construction of the screen that provides a wide viewing angle and glare reduction) is a function of the screen construction. But if you want to re-open this for debate lets hear what our resident experts have to say.

I'm not an expert, but... you are right and Zues is wrong. SDE and SSE are two completely different things, though there is a cumulative effect that when you see both at the same time, it looks worse than either one by itself.

With a matte screen I think you're touching the actual screen. With the SXRD the panels may be more prone to damage so they decided to use a screen cover.

Tony- since you keep going up in screen sizes, and buy a new TV every year, have you considered going with a projector?

Yes. Will also be checking out the new SXRD FP and the single chip
1080p DLPs.

The "ideal" solution for me in the near term would probably
be a 65 in. 1080p Panasonic Plasma for daytime viewing and a
100 in. screen with a FP for night time movie viewing provided
I can find a 1080p FP solution that gives me the PQ of a
1080p RP. By this I mean the perception of the screen disappearing
and the sense of a crisp detailed 3D picture...

I found a review of someone who actually was able to see the new sets. Not much of a review but he compares the set to a new Samsung: http://www.cleveland.com/living/plaindealer/bill_lammers/index.ssf?/base/living/1124962720227260.xml&coll=2

I found a review of someone who actually was able to see the new sets. Not much of a review but he compares the set to a new Samsung: http://www.cleveland.com/living/plaindealer/bill_lammers/index.ssf?/base/living/1124962720227260.xml&coll=2


I would rather see a comparison against all or most of the new 1080P displays coming this fall. I've seen the Samsungs and they will probably rank pretty close to the bottom of the 1080P crop this year. It would be a shock if the SXRD's didn't have much less artifacting, picture noise, more and sharper detail, and much better deinterlacing on SD and poorer quality feeds than the Samsungs. Not to mention sync and many other bugs and flaws. No one really expected the SXRD's not to be at least several notches above the Samsung 1080P's. A more meaningful comparison will be against the Mitsubishi, Toshiba, LG, and JVC 1080P contenders, imo.

I found a review of someone who actually was able to see the new sets. Not much of a review but he compares the set to a new Samsung: http://www.cleveland.com/living/plaindealer/bill_lammers/index.ssf?/base/living/1124962720227260.xml&coll=2

Few see the rainbow effect but I was told by someone who had seen an
almost production 60 in. SXRD side by side with a production 6168w a month
or so ago and he felt the BL and CR and color vibrancy appeared better on the "almost production" SXRD.

Hopefully this holds true for the production sets and Sony will have a real
winner - a "reference" set some have called it :-)

I agree that the screen is probably plexiglass. In the manual it states that the screen scrathces easily. Glass doesn't and the weight would suggest that there isn't a glass screen. This is pissing me off that we have to read between the lines. All the specs should be clearly layed out. This is poor marketing. There is something in the manual that states you may get black dos and different colors on some bright areas. Very strange. Dowload the manul and do a search for screen. I have to go back to work or I would post it here.

From the manual:
"Although the TV is made with high-precision technology, black dots may appear or bright points of light (red, blue or green) may appear constantly on the screen. This is a structural property of the panel and is not a defect."

This is in a general section about the TV, not specifically in a section about the screen material or care of it and I interpret it to be a disclaimer about the possibility of stuck or dead pixels, rather than having to do with the screen material.

I found a review of someone who actually was able to see the new sets. Not much of a review but he compares the set to a new Samsung: http://www.cleveland.com/living/plaindealer/bill_lammers/index.ssf?/base/living/1124962720227260.xml&coll=2


One good piece of info from that article is in the final paragraph on page 1. 1080p input sounds to be of no concern to sony until there is a need/source. With the PS3 not even coming out until next year or later they can pretty much just ignore that and claim there is no need for it this year. oh well

The most signifant part of the review to me was that Samsung had several "plants" (calibrators) in the audience and when challenging Sony to let them adjust the Samsung, were told "sure, go right ahead", which is unheard of when a corporation has one of these PR Demos comparing themselves to a competitor, and they couldn't come close to the SXRD after tweaking. Obviously, Sony knew they couldn't before giving permission - they weren't going to make an "if the glove doesn't fit" type of mistake like the OJ prosecutors. But, as i said, they'll have to match the SXRD up against something better than a Samsung before i would call this any kind of a "reference set".

Good observation on the interpetation of the text in the review meaning stuck pixels. They say it's normal. I hope not. Gazelle: all the DLP sets use the same chip so the PQ may be the same on all these sets. I doubt that each company is ramped up to make their own light engines, screens, etc. They probably all have a central supplier albeit that they may design to each companies design. In any event these new sets should be great. I have dismissed DLP as a contender in my quest. Too bad because the Samsung 67" 1080P is priced well considering it has only been out for a short time. The 61" is being discounted too. So the only other LCOS maker with sets coming out shortly is JVC and I have a feeling that Sony will knock them out of the picture.

With a matte screen I think you're touching the actual screen. With the SXRD the panels may be more prone to damage so they decided to use a screen cover.

The panels are <1 inch diagonally and are buried deep inside the TV.

Fear of damage to the panels is not the reason for a screen cover.

FWIW.

Good observation on the interpetation of the text in the review meaning stuck pixels. They say it's normal. I hope not. Gazelle: all the DLP sets use the same chip so the PQ may be the same on all these sets. I doubt that each company is ramped up to make their own light engines, screens, etc. They probably all have a central supplier albeit that they may design to each companies design. In any event these new sets should be great. I have dismissed DLP as a contender in my quest. Too bad because the Samsung 67" 1080P is priced well considering it has only been out for a short time. The 61" is being discounted too. So the only other LCOS maker with sets coming out shortly is JVC and I have a feeling that Sony will knock them out of the picture.

True, all the 1080P DLP's this year will use the "wobulated" chip, but they'll have different scalers and deinterlacers, electronics, "tweaks", etc. For instance, if you look at SD on the Mitsubishi 1080P, you'll see a "cleaner"picture with less artifacting than the Samsung. The chip is not the only major factor in PQ.

And, yes, already if you do some searching the 61" and 67" Samsung 1080P's can be had for prices at or below what were considered good "power buy" prices only a month ago, but this is very typical of Samsung DLP's. Their initial MSRP's bear no relation to reality and they normally sell for around 60% of the phony "MSRP within 4-5 months of their release. Sometimes sooner. Sony seems to be taking a page out of their playbook with their 3LCD's and their frequent price drops.

I am HORRIFIED of "stuck or dead pixels!" Is it likely to have those?? :(

The most signifant part of the review to me was that Samsung had several "plants" (calibrators) in the audience and when challenging Sony to let them adjust the Samsung, were told "sure, go right ahead", which is unheard of when a corporation has one of these PR Demos comparing themselves to a competitor, and they couldn't come close to the SXRD after tweaking. Obviously, Sony knew they couldn't before giving permission - they weren't going to make an "if the glove doesn't fit" type of mistake like the OJ prosecutors. But, as i said, they'll have to match the SXRD up against something better than a Samsung before i would call this any kind of a "reference set".

companies, technologies, etc. aside, i would pay to see something that amusing :D

companies, technologies, etc. aside, i would pay to see something that amusing :D

LOL:) I was thinking the same. Hope someone at Sony was smart enough to record it for posterity :D

I found a review of someone who actually was able to see the new sets. Not much of a review but he compares the set to a new Samsung: http://www.cleveland.com/living/plaindealer/bill_lammers/index.ssf?/base/living/1124962720227260.xml&coll=2

LOL, that is some review. Ther hasn't been a mass produced one-chip LCoS set since Phillips scraped their Cineos debacle 2 years ago. Where did they dig up that one chip LCoS set with a color wheel:) The reviewer doesn't even know the difference between LCoS and DLP.

LOL, that is some review. Ther hasn't been a mass produced one-chip LCoS set since Phillips scraped their Cineos debacle 2 years ago. Where did they dig up that one chip LCoS set with a color wheel:) The reviewer doesn't even know the difference between LCoS and DLP.


Yes, they could have sent a more astute and knowledgeable reporter for sure. The "saving grace" for Samsung is very few people except those either "in the know" or those who were actually there will be able to figure out that the SXRD was even compared against an HLR 6178....

As far as the 60 inch screen size I agree with you. When you are talking 50 inch you can get the Panasonic 50 inch from CC for $3600 today. Last time I checked Panasonic was highly rated. As far as Elites and ONYX's your not paying for anything other than high gloss black bezels and extra year warranty, the glass and electronics are exactly the same. The new Elite 50inch has a MSRP $6500 new Pioneer Purevision MSRP $6000.

I am in total agreement. As I stated in my orginial comment I am referring to the average consumer which in most cases would prefer TV's in the 42-50 inc range. At this size range plasmas are becoming relatively affordable and again I would be hard pressed to think that most people would prefer a rear projection, microdisplay or not, TV over a flat planel. Even in this environment of supposed videophiles CRT rear projections, which are believed to give the best pictures, get very little attention because of their form factor. I believe this same approach applies when comparing microdiplays to flat panels.

I am HORRIFIED of "stuck or dead pixels!" Is it likely to have those?? :(

I am, too. Once you see one, it is all you see.

Will this language actually allow Sony to refuse to replace sets with "stuck or dead pixels" under warranty?

Seems like most people are getting the 60". Why did Sony release a 50" instead of 55"? Not that many people prefer 50" I think for sxrd.

If 30 reporters saw these new sets why aren't there any indepth reviews or comments about PQ, BL, CR, etc?

'cuz they were all samsung "plants" posing as reporters? :cool:

If 30 reporters saw these new sets why aren't there any indepth reviews or comments about PQ, BL, CR, etc?

Hopefully get some reports and meaningful reviews from CEDIA next weekend...

Seems like most people are getting the 60". Why did Sony release a 50" instead of 55"? Not that many people prefer 50" I think for sxrd.

Actually, 42" to 50" sets are the "sweet spot" for the TV buying public right now. Larger than that, and your potential customer base drops off sharply.

I am, too. Once you see one, it is all you see.

Will this language actually allow Sony to refuse to replace sets with "stuck or dead pixels" under warranty?

It is probably there for a legal position to fall back on in the case of a class suit.

Not sure if the original warranty is the same, but the Sony extended warranty says:
"... TELEVISIONS MISSING LESS THAN TWENTY-ONE (21) PIXELS PER INCH OF USABLE SCREEN SPACE, AND PDA’S MISSING LESS THAN SIX (6) PIXELS PER INCH OF USABLE SCREEN SPACE ARE NOT COVERED".

I hope this means 21 pixels per square inch rather than 21 pixels per inch in a row or 21 X 21 pixels per square inch. Even the first case of 21 pixels per square inch seems like a lot to have to put up with. 20 stuck pixels clustered together would be about a 1/8 inch blob, right?

Actually, 42" to 50" sets are the "sweet spot" for the TV buying public right now. Larger than that, and your potential customer base drops off sharply.

True, but for 1080p sets most companies offer starting at 60". Will we eventually see other companies offer 50" 1080p or will they keep those for 720p buyers?

The bigger the set the more you'll notice the diff. between 1080p & 720p. I think more buyers will get a 50" 720p set than a 50" 1080p set, because they won't notice the difference. But not so for 60"+ models.

The bigger the set the more you'll notice the diff. between 1080p & 720p. I think more buyers will get a 50" 720p set than a 50" 1080p set, because they won't notice the difference. But not so for 60"+ models.

One thing to consider that I don't think gets enough attention regarding screen size is the WIFE factor.

We currently have an 8 year old Sony 27" Trinitron in a media cabinet. I had a heck of a time convincing my wife to get a tv that wouldn't fit in the cabinet. Getting her to agree with a 50" is do-able, a 60" isn't going to happen regardless of price. I've measured my average distance between the tv and seating areas and it is approx 7 feet in my living room/kitchen.

copy

[QUOTE=musicforme]One thing to consider that I don't think gets enough attention regarding screen size is the WIFE factor.

Truer words were never spoken :)

Yes. Will also be checking out the new SXRD FP and the single chip
1080p DLPs.

The "ideal" solution for me in the near term would probably
be a 65 in. 1080p Panasonic Plasma for daytime viewing and a
100 in. screen with a FP for night time movie viewing provided
I can find a 1080p FP solution that gives me the PQ of a
1080p RP. By this I mean the perception of the screen disappearing
and the sense of a crisp detailed 3D picture...


To me, just having that huge image is worth A LOT. I am willing to give up some slight PQ in order to have that BIG image.

Paid attention to KDF-60XS955 for the first time today; that's the form factor of 60" SXRD-- Boy, that's one UGLY set with HORRIBLE sticking out silver speakers. Whatever the technical achievements of SXRD sets are, I anticipate a major problem with WIFE factor.

Aesthetics of this set are terrible- would need to find a way to enclose the set in a cabinet with an opening for the screen only- or veer towards a Gen 6 Pioneer 50" Plasma.

It is probably there for a legal position to fall back on in the case of a class suit.

Not sure if the original warranty is the same, but the Sony extended warranty says:
"... TELEVISIONS MISSING LESS THAN TWENTY-ONE (21) PIXELS PER INCH OF USABLE SCREEN SPACE, AND PDA’S MISSING LESS THAN SIX (6) PIXELS PER INCH OF USABLE SCREEN SPACE ARE NOT COVERED".

I hope this means 21 pixels per square inch rather than 21 pixels per inch in a row or 21 X 21 pixels per square inch. Even the first case of 21 pixels per square inch seems like a lot to have to put up with. 20 stuck pixels clustered together would be about a 1/8 inch blob, right?

SXRD also boasts the highest "pixel density" of any TV available, as well as the tightest between-pixel spacing. The distance from the middle of one pixel to the middle of the next is only about 1/8 the width of a human hair!

So about 2 3/4 hairs

SXRD also boasts the highest "pixel density" of any TV available, as well as the tightest between-pixel spacing. The distance from the middle of one pixel to the middle of the next is only about 1/8 the width of a human hair!

So about 2 3/4 hairs

Don't forget those 2 3/4 "hairs" are projected on a 50 in. or 60 in.
screen where they will be MUCH BIGGER and definitely VISIBLE...

anything less than perfect is unacceptable. I'd definitely purchase froma place offering no questions asked exchanges to protect myself and ensure a perfect screen

Why in the world didn't they make the design the same as the Qualia... those speakers on the sides are killing me.

Don't forget those 2 3/4 "hairs" are projected on a 50 in. or 60 in.
screen where they will be MUCH BIGGER and definitely VISIBLE...

Exactly, those are referencing the panel, not the screen. I was figuring 1920 pixels/52 inches wide for the 60 inch diagonal screen gives 37 pixels/inch so a 4X5 pixel blob would be about 1/8 inch diameter.

Well, my way of thinking sounded alot better. You could have just laughed and kept it to yourself. I wonder how long someone viewed the worst there could be waiting on the next gens,next gens gen

Now I will loose sleep worrying about burned out pixels. :(

I was in a local A/V shop on Sat. 9/3 and I asked the owner about the new SXRD sets. He stated that he was told by Sony that the sets would start shipping on SEPTEMBER 5TH! After my jaw dropped, I asked him if he was sure about the date. He stated that he was sure about what Sony told him. 9/5/05!

Well, lets just see about that. LOL! The 5th is actually Labor Day. Maybe they will actually ship on 9/6. :rolleyes: I saw the 70inch Qualia at CES in January and recently saw it again at two local dealers. The set is literally the best RPTV I have ever seen. It's perfect. LOL! :D

If the new 60 and 50 inch are any where close to the quality of the Qualia, I am in! ;)

See ya!Any update?

Well, my way of thinking sounded alot better. You could have just laughed and kept it to yourself. I wonder how long someone viewed the worst there could be waiting on the next gens,next gens gen

The chances of 21 pixels going out is pretty slim, especially within a small
area. In fact, the probablility of a single pixel going out due to the SXRD
panel once in use is probably very very small. Just make sure you examine
the TV very closely during the first 30 days and make sure you buy from
someplace that let's you return it "no questions asked" during those 30 days.

The chances of 21 pixels going out is pretty slim. In fact, the probablility
of a single pixel going out due to the SXRD panel once in use is probably
very very small. Just make sure you examine the TV very closely during
the first 30 days and make sure you buy from someplace that let's you
return it "no questions asked" during those 30 days.So is it a good or bad thing that the 1080p DLPs use half as many mirrors twice as much?

So is it a good or bad thing that the 1080p DLPs use half as many mirrors twice as much?

There is no question in my mind that SXRD has the potential to be much
more reliable over a long period of time. If SXRD delivers the BL and CR,
TI and crew will get hurt over the long run.

The chance of a mirror becoming defective is much much greater, in my
opinion. But I have rarely heard of one going out once in use. I have
heard that Samsung typically replaces the DMD in the situation that this
does happen.

I do find it interesting though that Sony would hold themselves to
such a level of defective pixels. Alllowing xix pixels per square inch
seems to be quite common but twenty-one pixels per square inch
would be completely unwatchable as far as I am concerned ( nor
would I want to watch 6 pixels per entire screen for that matter ).

Another thing to consider though is that the chance of the same pixel
going out on all three panels is probably lower than hitting the lotto :-)
and depending how the pixel gets stuck, may not be very noticable at all...

I'm sorry, but there are virtually zero instances of mirror failure in any DMD, ever. The optical path is sealed against particle incursion and the mirrors have been lab tested and field proven for billions upon billions of actuations.

While color wheel failure is at least somewhat plausible -- it's a motor and those do at times fail -- using DMD failure as an argument against DMDs is like not flying planes because the rudder can break off and cause a crash. Can in happen? Yes. Will it happen? Almost certainly not.

I'm sorry, but there are virtually zero instances of mirror failure in any DMD, ever. The optical path is sealed against particle incursion and the mirrors have been lab tested and field proven for billions upon billions of actuations.

.

Agreed, but do you think a SXRD panel pixel has a greater chance of
going out?

Tony: If you like the Sony are you upgrading the Samsung? Just curious. I saw Samsung's 67" at Magnolia last night. It's a big set with a decent picture.

Here is a thread about SSE...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=549558
There are numerous others on the subject.
In particular the following post by TomCat...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5762793&&#post5762793

It looks like there is some confusion between SSE and "lenticular screen effect" but neither are the same as SDE. Again, SDE primarily applies to RP-LCD TVs whereas the other effects apply also to other types of RPTVs including DLPs and JVC D-ILAs.

Sorry, but referencing to a 15 post thread doesn't make it more than a rumor, and a small one at that. I googled it but couldn't find anything.

Again, SDE is more noticeable on LCD RPTV's than DLP due to more fill in DLP as well as wobulation in DLP in the later chips. This may be where part of the confusion stems from.
I'd be glad to entertain another point of view if there's relatively valid info or informed opinion behind it. This is why I began all this by saying SSE was ambiguous.

SDE as well as the other well-known artifacts is discussed at length in the article I referenced.

Paid attention to KDF-60XS955 for the first time today; that's the form factor of 60" SXRD-- Boy, that's one UGLY set with HORRIBLE sticking out silver speakers. Whatever the technical achievements of SXRD sets are, I anticipate a major problem with WIFE factor.

Aesthetics of this set are terrible- would need to find a way to enclose the set in a cabinet with an opening for the screen only- or veer towards a Gen 6 Pioneer 50" Plasma.

Pagla,

I think Sony went with the XS cabinet (instead of the WF cabinet) because to most people it has more of a "WOW" factor. I preferred the WF cabinet (still do), I found that it blends in better and take less space than the XS. I don't think that the XS is ugly, but I felt it's a look that I would get tired of...

I have to admit, at the cost of the new SXRD sets I'd probably go with plasma. You don't have to worry about staying in that "sweet spot" and it takes less space. I have a 55WF and it does take quite a bit of room...

Now all that can change if I'm blown away by the SXRD picture quality...only time will tell...Until then I'll enjoy my old 55'...

So is it a good or bad thing that the 1080p DLPs use half as many mirrors twice as much?

Actually the 1080p DLP uses 1/6 as many mirrors. The SXRD has three 1920x1080 panels (one each for RGB) whereas the DLP uses each mirror for all the colors in your color wheel to effectively make up the RGB composite color for two pixal locations.

I have to believe the color wheel is a much weaker link in the optical system than the chance that all three SXRD panels would have a failure on the same pixal. (on the other hand, it is somewhat more likely that a mirror will fail on one of the panels in the SXRD than the DMD since there are 6 times as many).

It is probably there for a legal position to fall back on in the case of a class suit.

Not sure if the original warranty is the same, but the Sony extended warranty says:
"... TELEVISIONS MISSING LESS THAN TWENTY-ONE (21) PIXELS PER INCH OF USABLE SCREEN SPACE, AND PDA’S MISSING LESS THAN SIX (6) PIXELS PER INCH OF USABLE SCREEN SPACE ARE NOT COVERED".

I hope this means 21 pixels per square inch rather than 21 pixels per inch in a row or 21 X 21 pixels per square inch. Even the first case of 21 pixels per square inch seems like a lot to have to put up with. 20 stuck pixels clustered together would be about a 1/8 inch blob, right?
Actually, they might mean "per inch of diagonal screen size", since that's how everything's advertised in the first place. So that would actually be 1260 (60 x 21) dead pixels they'd regard as permissible on the 60XBR1. Some calculations give the screen area of the 60" set as about 1540 square inches, which works out to an average of about 0.82 dead pixels per square inch. Which might be tolerable if they're distributed evenly about the screen, but it's still not too encouraging.

Tony: If you like the Sony are you upgrading the Samsung? Just curious. I saw Samsung's 67" at Magnolia last night. It's a big set with a decent picture.

I am not upgrading right away but eventually want a 70 in. set ( within
the next year ). The Sony SXRD is one of the few sets I will be
considering...

Honestly, I did not expect the new 1080p Samsung sets to be anywhere
near this good or I would have splurged and gotten the 71 in.

On the other hand, check out Sony's announcment of their new FP:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6146435&&#post6146435

Accepts 1080p60fps input with CR up to 15,000 to 1 and under $10,000.

Wow! I may have just found my new upgrade :-)

This just goes to show you that the contrast ratio is going to become better and better with the newer models. Awesome!

An educated guess on my part is that the legal language is simply a carryover from the computer lcd panels and nothing more. None of the speculation is realistic imo as no consumer, even Joe blow, would accept such high numbers of failure and I doubt they could even get away with such a high number on the legal/regulatory side.

Additionally, check with the current qualia owners...no one is reporting dead pixels iirc...maybe some dust particles and one instance of a transient critter!

I'm sorry, but there are virtually zero instances of mirror failure in any DMD, ever. The optical path is sealed against particle incursion and the mirrors have been lab tested and field proven for billions upon billions of actuations.

While color wheel failure is at least somewhat plausible -- it's a motor and those do at times fail -- using DMD failure as an argument against DMDs is like not flying planes because the rudder can break off and cause a crash. Can in happen? Yes. Will it happen? Almost certainly not.


Well the rudder did break off of a plane a couple of years ago. Well acutally it was the screw that controled the rudder and the plane crased off the coast of CA. So its rare but does happen. There were 100+ people on that plane.

Well the rudder did break off of a plane a couple of years ago. Well acutally it was the screw that controled the rudder and the plane crased off the coast of CA. So its rare but does happen. There were 100+ people on that plane.

IIRC, that was due to improper maintainence. Wrong type of grease.

I have a fairly reliable source in the industry that tells me this IS the reason why Qualias are so expensive. The Qualia 'Throw away' chip rate is MUCH higher than Sony would normally allow in a consumer product. While I will not get anyone in trouble, I will predict the magic number will be 21 for the entire screen, versus two for Qualia. I also did not know that for the little PSP the magic number is 11. 11 on that tiny little screen...

This is my chief concern, and has been for some time now with these new sets. Unfortunately Sony does not have a good history on bad pixels and customer satisfaction with other devices...

Actually, they might mean "per inch of diagonal screen size", since that's how everything's advertised in the first place. So that would actually be 1260 (60 x 21) dead pixels they'd regard as permissible on the 60XBR1. Some calculations give the screen area of the 60" set as about 1540 square inches, which works out to an average of about 0.82 dead pixels per square inch. Which might be tolerable if they're distributed evenly about the screen, but it's still not too encouraging.

I guess it is too vague to know for sure. Your interpretation makes sense, except that then theoretically all 1200 bad pixels could be clustered together, ie adjacent pixels and still be considered acceptable. This cluster would be almost 1 inch in diameter and clearly not acceptable to anyone.

I interpreted it as an areal cluster limit and you interpreted it as a total limit. It seems that both of these limits need to be specified together in order to be meaningful.

Was wandering, what "chance" is greater, that Sony will include 1080p inputs on next year's model???, OR they will use the EXACT same cabinet as this year's model? Thanks!

We have strayed a long way from the original point - which was to do with the pros and cons of the type of screen that was speculated to be used in the SXRDs.

SDE should be significantly reduced on this set due to the increased resolutution and fill rate in the panel.

SSE (assuming it exists) will be unchanged over the prior 3LCD assuming it's due to the matte screen and assuming Sony uses the same screen.

That's alot of assuming. :)

There's not much else to do right now but to stray until vaporware becomes hardware.

I guess it is too vague to know for sure. Your interpretation makes sense, except that then theoretically all 1200 bad pixels could be clustered together, ie adjacent pixels and still be considered acceptable. This cluster would be almost 1 inch in diameter and clearly not acceptable to anyone.

I interpreted it as an areal cluster limit and you interpreted it as a total limit. It seems that both of these limits need to be specified together in order to be meaningful.

I managed a CE store in 03' and 04', and helped many customers try and resolve Sony warranty issues. Unless Sony's acceptable tolerances have changed on micro displays the unit must have more than .1% of the pixels stuck or dead to be considered defective. Do the math. Yes this would be over 2000 on a 1080P set.

They do have an exception to this. If you divide the screen into 12 quadrants, there can be a "certain number" within a quadrant that can also be considered a defect. The tolerance is higher in the border quadrants than it is in the middle two. The thing is, they would never tell me what the "certain number" was. None of the units I tried to get approved as defective ever qualified. After all, you can learn to ignore 300 pixels. LOL

I'm not bashing Sony. The reason I'm here is that I will most likely be purchasing an SXRD in October. Hey, the dead pixels will be smaller.

Spoke with some Sony people this morning. I was told they will be shipping SXRD's in large quantities to some East Coast Big Box Dealers later this month. Spoke to a couple of Big Box dealers and they both told me the same expected date for the SXRD's arrival in their warehouses - September 27th....

Dead Pixel question...
Since many of us, me included, will buy these sets locally..
What is the best way to test for dead pixels?

Use a computer input and put up a totally white screen and then break out the magnifying glass?

Actually, it is a serious question... I'd like to be able to see how many there are the first day I get the set... not the day ofter I can no longer return the set.

Agreed, but do you think a SXRD panel pixel has a greater chance of
going out?

Actually, I have no idea. A pixel can fail in an LCOS panel if the transistor fails. That's also pretty friggin' unlikely. But since both are incredibly remote (I know DMD is, I'm fairly certain LCOS is), it's not purposeful to compare one to the other in terms of risk.

No one would pick a flight on Wednesdays over one on Tuesdays just becuse 9/11 was on a Tuesday.

Dead Pixel question...
Since many of us, me included, will buy these sets locally..
What is the best way to test for dead pixels?

Use a computer input and put up a totally white screen and then break out the magnifying glass?

Actually, it is a serious question... I'd like to be able to see how many there are the first day I get the set... not the day ofter I can no longer return the set.

If you have to look THAT hard, why even worry about it? Worry about what you can see in NORMAL use. That is what really matters.

Well the rudder did break off of a plane a couple of years ago. Well acutally it was the screw that controled the rudder and the plane crased off the coast of CA. So its rare but does happen. There were 100+ people on that plane.


I'm not going to quibble, but I believe that crash was the Alaska Air flight and the jack screw controlled the rear wing / stabilizer.

There was an American flight a few weeks after 9/11 that crashed due to rudder failure.

My point was -- and not to make light of the dead, may they rest in peace -- that these exceptionally rare events are not a reason to choose something over another thing. A plane's rudder can break. A tree can fall into the street. A voice you hear in the night might actually whisper the winning Lotto numbers. A DMD mirror can fail.

Things that are theoretically possibility but extraordinarily unlikely should not govern one's life, let alone one's choice of a TV. Both DLPs and -- hopefully -- the SXRD should prove to be generally very reliable products.

Actually, I have no idea. A pixel can fail in an LCOS panel if the transistor fails. That's also pretty friggin' unlikely. But since both are incredibly remote (I know DMD is, I'm fairly certain LCOS is), it's not purposeful to compare one to the other in terms of risk.



Fair enough :-)

I bit the bullet and just ordered the set from Sears, as their sale ends today. Delivery date: Oct. 13. I’m on the West Coast, and if it’s true the sets are arriving in warehouses in the East the end of this month, I figured the odds of getting it sooner by waiting for the local BB or CC would be a longshot and it could well take longer. All this talk of possible pixel failure pushed me into a 5-year Sears warranty. I’ve never dealt with Sears before but they have a good rep as far as I know, so my fingers are crossed.

I managed a CE store in 03' and 04', and helped many customers try and resolve Sony warranty issues. Unless Sony's acceptable tolerances have changed on micro displays the unit must have more than .1% of the pixels stuck or dead to be considered defective. Do the math. Yes this would be over 2000 on a 1080P set.

They do have an exception to this. If you divide the screen into 12 quadrants, there can be a "certain number" within a quadrant that can also be considered a defect. The tolerance is higher in the border quadrants than it is in the middle two. The thing is, they would never tell me what the "certain number" was. None of the units I tried to get approved as defective ever qualified. After all, you can learn to ignore 300 pixels. LOL

I'm not bashing Sony. The reason I'm here is that I will most likely be purchasing an SXRD in October. Hey, the dead pixels will be smaller.

How was JVC and LG at handling defects or returns? Those are the other 2 direct LCoS competitors coming out this year. JVC seems very eager to help those with problems in the past and LG seems to be striving hard improve their quality to shed their price leader "Goldstar" image of the 80s and 90s.

I went on the highdef forum and read several cases where JVC has given its customers the run around. I am convinced that there QC is poor and I don't want to deal with waiting weeks for parts and repairmen to show up as I have read too often. Sony is hear to stay. I also looked at the JVC again at PC Richards and although it has vibrant colors the detail in black scenes is not too good as Tony D will tell you. Example: one newscaster was wearing a black jacket and it looked like a black blob while a set next to the JVC displayed it fine. This tells me they used poor optics or have a poor design. So now we have poor quality control coupled with a poor design. There is a reason why there 61" set is selling for 2,200.00 online and that the new Sony's are being pre-ordered at MSRP. If the JVC set was successful Sony would have had to lower its prices. Do what you want but I would stay away.

How was JVC and LG at handling defects or returns? Those are the other 2 direct LCoS competitors coming out this year. JVC seems very eager to help those with problems in the past and LG seems to be striving hard improve their quality to shed their price leader "Goldstar" image of the 80s and 90s.

We didn't carry JVC, LG or Hitatchi. The main issues were always with LCD and we sold mostly Sony and Mits. At the time Mits didn't have LCD.

Sorry I'm no help.

Dead Pixel question...
Since many of us, me included, will buy these sets locally..
What is the best way to test for dead pixels?

Use a computer input and put up a totally white screen and then break out the magnifying glass?

Actually, it is a serious question... I'd like to be able to see how many there are the first day I get the set... not the day ofter I can no longer return the set.

Put up an all-white screen to look for dead pixels. Put up an all-black screen to look for stuck pixels. DVE has both.

There is a reason why there 61" set is selling for 2,200.00 online and that the new SOny's are being pre-ordered at MSRP. If the JVC sit was successful Sony would have had to lower its prices. Do what you want but I would stay away.

Yeah, the reason is that the Sony is a 1080p set with Qualia heritage while the JVC you speak of is a 720p model, unless the 1080p D-ILA sets have magically appeared at retail when I wasn't looking. Aren't you comparing apples to oranges a bit there? Or at least grapefruits to oranges? :rolleyes:

Sorry, but referencing to a 15 post thread doesn't make it more than a rumor, and a small one at that. I googled it but couldn't find anything.


Some peaple believe everything they read :rolleyes:

OK, I'm new here and I've seen various posts about 1080p inputs via HDMI, Firewire, VGA, etc. and whether or not certain sets accept 1080p or not.

Is there any defeninitive answer out there? From what I've seen some people claim that Sony has said their new SXRD sets will accept 1080p sources but the major concensus seems to be that this is not available on almost all current TV's.

Something I noticed on another thread is that a lot of people seem to think that Firewire can handle 1080p. The SXRD sets discussed on this forum have IEEE inputs.

What about card expansion slots? Do the new SXRD sets have these, as some commerical sets do? You would think at the very least that there would be a way to retro-fit a set to accept 1080p if and when content becomes available.

To me (from an engineer's POV), it makes absolutely no sense to design a 1080p-capable set and NOT provide a way to transmit 1080p content, especially when it is possible and not very difficult. Even if no 1080p content is forseeable in the near future, why handcuff yourself if you don't have to? Just doesn't make sense.

Shredfest: First of all there isn't a huge difference in 720p vs. 1080p. The JVC sets seem to be plagues with defects. Bad light engines, foreign substances on the inside of the screen, green swatches, misaligned scrrens, bulbs going out too soon, etc. I've read way too many problems. BB in my area stopped carrying the sets. Hello: the writing is in the wall. Perhpas the 1080P sets are great sets. I say the odds are that JVC will not execute on their new sets given past performance. Lets hope the new SOny sets share the same technology as the Qualia sets whcih is proven. There is a small chance that Sony will not execute but they have too much on the line with these new sets so I would be that they will be great sets.

xjwheelr,

There will likely not be any "definitive" answers until people here on the forum can get their hands on a set at home or in the store.

Ixjwheelr: It makes sense if you want to people to keep ugrading to the latest and greatest. I think it's dumb too.

OK, I'm new here and I've seen various posts about 1080p inputs via HDMI, Firewire, VGA, etc. and whether or not certain sets accept 1080p or not.

Is there any defeninitive answer out there? From what I've seen some people claim that Sony has said their new SXRD sets will accept 1080p sources but the major concensus seems to be that this is not available on almost all current TV's.

Something I noticed on another thread is that a lot of people seem to think that Firewire can handle 1080p. The SXRD sets discussed on this forum have IEEE inputs.

What about card expansion slots? Do the new SXRD sets have these, as some commerical sets do? You would think at the very least that there would be a way to retro-fit a set to accept 1080p if and when content becomes available.

To me (from an engineer's POV), it makes absolutely no sense to design a 1080p-capable set and NOT provide a way to transmit 1080p content, especially when it is possible and not very difficult. Even if no 1080p content is forseeable in the near future, why handcuff yourself if you don't have to? Just doesn't make sense.

Firewire certainly has the bandwidth to accept 1080P and surely could be retrofitted to do so if current electronics preclude this. Whether any of this will ever be implemented is another story. We'll cetainly see what current capabilities are within a couple of months of these sets being in the public's hands. I'm sure experimenter's will thoroughly test the current capabilities of these firewire and even the D-15 connections on these sets. Some seem to feel that the PC input may be capable of accepting 1080P straight OOTB even though the manual denies this. But all this is just conjecture since it appears the SXRD's won't be shipping to the public until the end of the month. At least in the Northeast.

AkaStp- believe what you want... If you want to believe in fairytale SSE term feel free... The correct term would be SDE=Screen Door effect....

I would bet you a thousand dollars if Sony used the Same Screen on there Lcds on there Sxrds there would be no so-called SSE.... It would be Ez Money... :D

OK, I'm new here and I've seen various posts about 1080p inputs via HDMI, Firewire, VGA, etc. and whether or not certain sets accept 1080p or not.

Is there any defeninitive answer out there? From what I've seen some people claim that Sony has said their new SXRD sets will accept 1080p sources but the major concensus seems to be that this is not available on almost all current TV's.

Something I noticed on another thread is that a lot of people seem to think that Firewire can handle 1080p. The SXRD sets discussed on this forum have IEEE inputs.

What about card expansion slots? Do the new SXRD sets have these, as some commerical sets do? You would think at the very least that there would be a way to retro-fit a set to accept 1080p if and when content becomes available.

To me (from an engineer's POV), it makes absolutely no sense to design a 1080p-capable set and NOT provide a way to transmit 1080p content, especially when it is possible and not very difficult. Even if no 1080p content is forseeable in the near future, why handcuff yourself if you don't have to? Just doesn't make sense.

One reason they wouldn't do it could be cost. If there is some added circuitry that might cost an extra 100-200 bucks and installing that into the tv makes you change the design to add more to the cost, it could be a reason to keep it out.

But on the other hand Sony is the maker of the playstation 3 which has been stated to be a 1080p over hdmi device, i don't see them letting that gamestation go with no 1080p to play it on...

We will all just have to wait and see.

Delivery update: My dealer's system shows 55 SXRD sets, ETA 9/9. :D :D :D

Some seem to feel that the PC input may be capable of accepting 1080P straight OOTB even though the manual denies this.

Yeah...I took a look at the manual for the sets and saw that the highest resolution supported was 1280x1024. Why wouldn't it be able to accept it's native resolution of 1920x1080? I am going to build a MythTV computer to act as my "tivo" but should I close it down and want to browse on my TV I wouldn't want it stretched horizontally nor would I want black bars on the sides.

Thats the other thing...stretch modes. I just returned a Mitsubishi 62" 62725 DLP (I saw tons of rainbows) and one of the things I wasn't impressed with was it's lack of stretch modes or the fact that I had to cycle through them all to get to the one I wanted rather than choosing it from a menu and have the sound cut out each time it is switched.

It seems that Sony will have even less stretch modes than the Mits and still uses the one button cycle-through method of changing formats.

...believe what you want... If you want to believe in fairytale SSE term feel free... The correct term would be SDE=Screen Door effect....
Having a conversation with Zues is like arguing with a bucket of gravel...

Sure...there's no such thing as SSE...just another term for SDE...:rolleyes: Everybody else MUST be wrong.

BTW, thanks for that suggestion for my HT protection needs...nice way to dodge the question. No surprise that you didn't have any info to back your stupid argument.

Jason

Delivery update: My dealer's system shows 55 SXRD sets, ETA 9/9. :D :D :D

Great! :)

My dealer's system shows 55 SXRD sets, ETA 9/9.
Still no word from Jesus...:confused: I'm not sure where the disconnect is, though it is a fairly small shop. Still, they carry XBR and the Qualia 006, so I don't know why he's not in the know...

Attempting patience,

Jason

Delivery update: My dealer's system shows 55 SXRD sets, ETA 9/9. :D :D :D

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet! You better have a digital camera ready :D

Delivery update: My dealer's system shows 55 SXRD sets, ETA 9/9. :D :D :D

So it is true ' . ' [ :o ] There will be a 55" set. MAYBE a 55" for me, BUT no smaller than that for me. Most likely will just go with the 60" though. Thanks for the info.

You guys do believe too much what you read....jasonC-i remember you even thought Sxrds would have SDE, SSE, whatever because they share the XS case... :rolleyes:

AkaStp blames sse due to Sonys Screen? Thats just crazy when you compare Panasonic Dlp to thier Rp-lcds....Is Panasonics Lcd screen inferior to thier dlp screens? Maybee we should just buy Samsung dlps ?

JasonC- What advice did you want me to give you? :confused: Certainly you dont want to hear me recommend Monster Equipment.... Mov based Bs right?

You got that right. I'd gladly take his bet (and I'm sure I would win) but I would also bet that he would not listen to anyone that tells him he's wrong (like several people have already done) and so would welch on the bet. There's also the problem that he can't accurately convey his point or backup his arguments so it would be a bet against an ambiguous set of assertions.

I would respond to Zues's post, but like the SSE I see on almost all microdisplay RPTVs, I believe he may be merely a figment of my imagination.

So it is true ' . ' [ :o ] There will be a 55" set. MAYBE a 55" for me, BUT no smaller than that for me. Most likely will just go with the 60" though. Thanks for the info.I think he may be saying that fifty-five individual televisions are in his dealer's system (nationwide? regionally? dunno), not that the televisions themselves have a 55 in. diagonal.

So it is true ' . ' [ :o ] There will be a 55" set. MAYBE a 55" for me, BUT no smaller than that for me. Most likely will just go with the 60" though. Thanks for the info.To clarify before rumors run rampant...Quantity of 55 rear projection televisions. Consisting of 60" and 50" SXRD sets. Only 60" and 50" sets. No 55" sets! :D

I repeat... No 55" sets! :D

I think he may be saying that fifty-five individual televisions are in his dealer's system (nationwide? regionally? dunno), not that the televisions themselves have a 55 in. diagonal.X-ZACKTLY!

Why would one dealer buy 55 of the 55" sets? :D

Why would one dealer buy 55 of the 55" sets? :D

I bet just about evey one of them is already sold :-)

Why would one dealer buy 55 of the 55" sets? :D
http://www.cthisdish.com/images/banghead2.gif


:D

http://www.cthisdish.com/images/banghead2.gif


:D

LMAO!

Why would one dealer buy 55 of the 55" sets? :D

Not much demand for the 50" or 60" models? :D

To clarify before rumors run rampant...Quantity of 55 rear projection televisions. Consisting of 60" and 50" SXRD sets. Only 60" and 50" sets. No 55" sets! :D

I repeat... No 55" sets! :D


Why no 55" sets?? Are you POSITIVE?? :D :D

Sure...there's no such thing as SSE...just another term for SDE...:rolleyes: Everybody else MUST be wrong.


Jason

Not trying to take sides here, but I think using "everybody else" is a stretch. It may exist, but I wouldn't say there's a consensus (even here at AVS) and there's little or no info on it outside of this forum that I could find. If it's distinct from SDE then it is poorly understood/defined.

I've recently switched to plasma from lcd rp and I do see similar artifacts to what I believe is described here as SSE i.e. what looks like SDE but is more noticeable with movement across a light background. It was more noticeable on the lcd rp I'll admit though.

The thing that makes me think it's *not* related to the screen is that it's more noticeable with lower quality signals.

Plasma has its own noise it's just different. It's mostly in the feed. I have a plasma and sometimes the PQ is great and sometimes not. Overall I like the PQ of the Sony A20 set over the Pioneer Plasma (new just bought it).

SSE certainly does exist, and it unfortunatly bugs the heck out of me. I've had a couple friends over watching the Qualia 006 and neither of them could see what I was talking about. It is plain as day to me though on that set. The Samsung 1080 sets also have a bad case of it, so much that it is distracting for me to watch. Again though, friends of mine can't see it no matter how hard they look. Everybodys different.

Rick

SSE certainly does exist, and it unfortunatly bugs the heck out of me. I've had a couple friends over watching the Qualia 006 and neither of them could see what I was talking about. It is plain as day to me though on that set. The Samsung 1080 sets also have a bad case of it, so much that it is distracting for me to watch. Again though, friends of mine can't see it no matter how hard they look. Everybodys different.

Rick


Not so sure SSE is the problem with the Samsung 1080P's. More like poor scaling and deinterlacing, no 3:2 pulldown on 1080i, in combination with the wobulated chip. Seems to be worse with fast motion or poor sources.

Still no word from Jesus...:confused: I'm not sure where the disconnect is, though it is a fairly small shop. Still, they carry XBR and the Qualia 006, so I don't know why he's not in the know...

Attempting patience,

JasonI heard Jesus was pissed about the beat-down. He says you have weak Kung-fu. Your monkey style is no match for his superior hidden crossed eyes technique.

He sent you a message.... :eek: :eek:

Could you describe exactly what it is that you see?
What I'm referring to is a very fine speckle/sparkle effect that appears in areas of light color, especially white, even in stationary pictures. Its almost like very fine grain silica sand has been sprinkled on the screen. It kind of glistens and if you move your head from side to side it sparkles slightly. It is most evident when there is a lot of ambient light, especially overhead. If you repalced the picture with a pure white image (removing any motion effects) you would still see it. I see it not only on Sony RP-LCD TVs but also on Mitsubishi DLP and RP-LCD TVs, Samsung DLPs, JVC D-ILAs,

Go to your Screen door in youre house if you have one and move youre head side, to side...You will see the same Sparkly effect....Aka SDE.. :)

Certainly it is less noticable on Dlp compared to Lcd...

Go to your Screen door in youre house if you have one and move youre head side, to side...You will see the same Sparkly effect....Aka SDE.. :)

Certainly it is less noticable on Dlp compared to Lcd...You my dear sir, are an imbecile (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=imbecile)!

I have definitely seen the SSE effect, and to me it seems to be mostly unrelated to SDE, although I'm not sure it's not some interaction between the screen texture and the pixel gaps. I have seen it on all the RP LCDs I have seen, and to a lesser extent on all the DLPs. I agree, it's like sprinkling sugar/silica on the screen or something. My understanding from discussions in the past was that the varying degrees it shows up on different displays had to do with the gain of the screen. I.E. the LCDs have less light output so the screen "focuses" the light more at the expense of slightly lower viewing angles, and slightly more SSE. I'm not sure how true that is, it's just what I remember reading.

Incidentally, I also see it on my direct view LCD computer monitor that has a similarly textured anti-glare screen. And people in the computer forums were definitely aware of it, and it stopped many of them from buying Dell LCD displays. I think what might be rare outside this forum is the term "silk screen effect" not the effect itself. The fact that it also shows up on direct view LCD isn't necessarily conclusive to the debate though, since they have SDE as well. I have noticed though, that I haven't seen it on any plasma, and they also have quite bad SDE, and they don't have the same type of textured anti-glare screen. They also don't have any need for any kind of "gain" (still not sure that's the right term) in the screen, and have extremely wide viewing angles as well.

UninvitedQuest- Were do you think the term Screendoor Effect came from?

What I'm referring to is a very fine speckle/sparkle effect that appears in areas of light color, especially white, even in stationary pictures. Its almost like very fine grain silica sand has been sprinkled on the screen. It kind of glistens and if you move your head from side to side it sparkles slightly. It is most evident when there is a lot of ambient light, especially overhead. If you repalced the picture with a pure white image (removing any motion effects) you would still see it.
.

Re: SSE

I've never seen this as you desribe it, either with Sony GWIII or plasma. What I was referring to looks like mesh (or smoke if you're further back) that occurs mainly with movement (panning) over light/white backgrounds.

Maybe it's like RBE and not everyone sees it. I hope I don't see it tomorrow or the next time I look at my set. ;)

Delivery update: My dealer's system shows 55 SXRD sets, ETA 9/9. :D :D :D

Is your dealer a local brick and mortar??

Early adaptors always pay a premium. Those willing to wait always get more for less. A fact of life with rapidly evolving and improving technologies...

Except when the early adopters want to pay the premium for a good amount of time before the cheaper 'on-par' version comes out, but the local distribution is so slow, they only end up with 6 month or so for the priviledge as in my case. I got the first one and ordered it from my contacts at Sony back in Nov. 04 and they couldn't get it to me till mid May '05. I was told today by a Qualia rep the the new SXRD FP was coming and that it had a 10k price point.

This is feeling all to close to my experiences with owning a 10HT and a 12HT, which even though weren't Qualia money were still $8 and $9k respectively and superseded within 7 months of owning them by models the were nearly half the price and out performed them.

Anyway, in the case of both the SXRD TV's and FP, we'll have to see what they are like when they turn up I guess.

Is your dealer a local brick and mortar??Yep, they're a division of Tweeter (http://www.tweeter.com).

Yep, they're a division of Tweeter (http://www.tweeter.com).

Then its Sony's shipment to the retailer's regional or national warehouse?? Then add a week to get it to you?? That's only next week. Still pretty soon.

Party at UG's. I'll bring the pizza. :D

By the way UG, what State are you in??

I heard Jesus was pissed about the beat-down. He says you have weak Kung-fu. Your monkey style is no match for his superior hidden crossed eyes technique.

He sent you a message.... :eek: :eek:

Oh man, thanks for the laugh this morning! Hahahahaha...

Then its Sony's shipment to the retailer's regional or national warehouse?? Then add a week to get it to you?? That's only next week. Still pretty soon.

Party at UG's. I'll bring the pizza. :D

By the way UG, what State are you in??He though maybe two days max after it's in the local warehouse. We're in Phoenix, AZ.

I checked the CEDIA website this morning and it specifically states that SONY will have 1080P TV's on display at their booth. That means I finally get to see one of these things Friday....WOO HOO!! I will report what I see on here by Friday evening Chicago time. Main issues are what kind of screen does it have (matte or gloss), and how is the general PQ vs. the 3LCD models.

I checked the CEDIA website this morning and it specifically states that SONY will have 1080P TV's on display at their booth. That means I finally get to see one of these things Friday....WOO HOO!! I will report what I see on here by Friday evening Chicago time. Main issues are what kind of screen does it have (matte or gloss), and how is the general PQ vs. the 3LCD models.

I would hope you will also post pictures :D

...and how is the general PQ vs. the 3LCD models.

That's right. Do an A.B. comparison. Get it...A-B comparison, AlanBuck comparison...ha ha....uh....well...they can't all be gems.

...SONY will have 1080P TV's on display at their booth. That means I finally get to see one of these things Friday....WOO HOO!! I will report what I see ....


Alan, or whoever gets to see them first…

Please get a measurement of the size of the foot print, or its base, for those of us that are letting the ears flap freely, with nothing beneath them.
:cool:

Go to your Screen door in youre house if you have one and move youre head side, to side...You will see the same Sparkly effect....Aka SDE.. :)

Certainly it is less noticable on Dlp compared to Lcd...

I think I've finally experienced the dreaded TTABWE -- Talking-To-A-Brick-Wall Effect.

Bwe
:D

I checked the CEDIA website this morning and it specifically states that SONY will have 1080P TV's on display at their booth. That means I finally get to see one of these things Friday....WOO HOO!! I will report what I see on here by Friday evening Chicago time. Main issues are what kind of screen does it have (matte or gloss), and how is the general PQ vs. the 3LCD models.

Other things worth checking out:
1) Confirmation that it can or cannot accept 1080p through VGA or HDMI.
2) Fan noise?
3) Any visible SSE (not to be confused with SDE, which we can safely assume is not an issue)?
4) Dynamic iris performance and black level improvements?

5) Does it have the Wega Gate interface?
6) 1 or 2 HDMI inputs (the manual says two but Sony Style web site says one).

I'll check all these things too guys. I better take notes with me. :)

The problem is that you've morphed my original point to suit your own agenda and to fit your own incorrect interpretation of what my concern was. I could try and explain again but it would probably be pointless as I've already tried several times to explain but you're just not getting it. I.e. You seem unable to comprehend what I'm getting at with regard to screen sparkles, what causes them, and which TVs exhibit such an effect. You use words like "blame" and "insane" and "crazy" but you don't really understand the point. Maybe you should try harder to understand my point rather than doing eye-rolling.
Btw, Samsung DLPs also have "SSE" (aka sparkles), as do Panasonics, Sonys, etc.
Oh, and its not what we (I) read, its what we (I) see.

I know this might comes as a shock to some, but the Qualia have sparkles as well.

I checked the CEDIA website this morning and it specifically states that SONY will have 1080P TV's on display at their booth. That means I finally get to see one of these things Friday....WOO HOO!! I will report what I see on here by Friday evening Chicago time. Main issues are what kind of screen does it have (matte or gloss), and how is the general PQ vs. the 3LCD models.If I could make a request... could you ask someone from Sony if 1080p via i.link (1394 firewire) from a blu-ray player or PS3 on the KDS-R60XBR1 is a possibility?

Thanks!
UG

Spoke with some Sony people this morning. I was told they will be shipping SXRD's in large quantities to some East Coast Big Box Dealers later this month. Spoke to a couple of Big Box dealers and they both told me the same expected date for the SXRD's arrival in their warehouses - September 27th....

I just checked with Soundtrack, Boulder, CO.
They are showing SXRD's in the warehouse on Fri. 9/23, and probably
in store on Mon. 9/26.
BTW, what is the advantage of 1080P over 1080i? Any fixed pixel display
converts the 'i' video signal to P, so one would be indistinguishable from the other, right? Of course I'm assuming equal number of frames per second,
namely 30 FPS in both cases.

Yes, I know, I've seen it but didn't find it to be objectionable. The worst I've seen is on the new Mits 720p RP-LCD sets. The new A10s and A20s aren't too bad. Hopefully the SXRDs will be better.

The SXRD had better be amazing...or I am grabbing a 50 inch A10 at around 2 grand, and saying that is good enough for now..lol

I know this might comes as a shock to some, but the Qualia have sparkles as well.

One issue I have about any HD set is the huge variability in the quality of so-called HD prime time shows on the main networks. Most of them look mediocre...kind of dark, and not as sharp as they could be. What gives here? Even my Sony GWIII can look pretty amazing on GOOD HD shows, but as I was flipping through the channels last night, it dawned on me that there isn't really much programming that lets these TV's really shine. Kinda sucks...even if we buy a 5 grand SXRD, the same issues will apply. The only channels with excellent PQ most of the time are Discovery HD, and INHD 1 and 2. Some of the sporting events on the main networks look great..so does the Tonight Show. I guess we can hope the standards improve more the next few years. Until better DVD's arrive, we won't get the most out these TV's on that either. Makes me again wonder if the A-10 50 inch at 2 grand isn't the better choice for the moment, and then we can upgrade to a SXRD for what will likely be a 2 to3 grand selling price in 2 to 4 years when the content better matches the TV's capabliites...Hmmmm

Makes me again wonder if the A-10 50 inch at 2 grand isn't the better choice for the moment, and then we can upgrade to a SXRD for what will likely be a 2 to3 grand selling price in 2 to 4 years when the content better matches the TV's capabliites...HmmmmIf you will buy again in two years, the A10 makes perfect sense. I'm looking at more of a 4+yr time frame.

Unbelievable, this thread has limped past the 100 page mark and we still have so many unanswered important questions-

--And no one has seen one yet.

Unbelievable, this thread has limped past the 100 page mark and we still have so many unanswered important questions-

--And no one has seen one yet.

We need you to head to CEDIA Larry! :D

Unbelievable, this thread has limped past the 100 page mark and we still have so many unanswered important questions-

--And no one has seen one yet.

I will see one this Friday at CEDIA and write a report when I get home. I hope it has the PQ of a Panny 50 inch plasma, but bigger, and no screen door effect. :)

We're past a 100 pages!! This product must be one of the first to have created so much hype with $0 marketing expense from Sony :D

Hopefully we'll find out on friday if these sets are the end all and be all of home theater :)

Go to your Screen door in youre house if you have one and move youre head side, to side...You will see the same Sparkly effect....Aka SDE.. :)

Certainly it is less noticable on Dlp compared to Lcd...

OK, let me get this straight: SSE equals SDE? And . . . . are you just trying to yank everybody here? Because you clearly aren't serious. Although, I fear you seem to be serious about that, and this quite frankly worries me.

Let me see if I can explain this to you in clear terms. Here goes:

SSE is short for Silk Screen Effect, right? I haven't lost you yet, right? Good. (some might call it "sparkle screen effect" but it's also referred to as Silk Screen Effect by many . . . same effect - I'm using Silk Screen Effect because I think it's a concept that you'll understand better.)

SDE is short for Screen Door Effect, right? Good. OK, I think we're making progress here.

Now, a screen door, as I'm sure you know, is distinguished by it's very noticeable SQUARE grid pattern. Got it? Good. Silk, on the other hand, is never described, except perhaps under a microscope, as having a noticeable grid pattern. Are we still on the same page, Z? Good.

Instead, silk tends to have a distinct sheen to it. "Sheen"? Now, that's interesting. Let's dig deeper: "Sheen" is typically defined as, "Glistening brightness; luster." Glistening - similar to sparkling, now, isn't it? Hmmm . . . .(now, don't get confused - some silk might be "raw" or otherwise treated differently to not have a sheen - don't get excited and start thinking people think their screens look like raw silk - let's keep this, if we can, in the realm of reality).

So, let's summarize: Screen doors = grid pattern. Silk = shiny/sheen/glistening. Are you keeping up Z?

So, when I see that my RPTV has what appears to be an overly shiny screen, as if someone has stretched some shiny tansparent SILK across the screen, I might interject: "Wow, I see the SSE on my screen!" You see? That's SSE! Good!

Now, on the other hand, if I am viewing a RPTV which doesn't have really tight pixel spacing (LCDs are worst, DLPs better, SXRD/LCOS best so far), so that there is space between each SQUARE pixel, if I get too close to such a set, I might notice that the spaces between the SQUARE pixels, collectively (i.e., all together), appear as a dark GRID pattern that's very much like - that's right! - like a screen door! There you go! Good, you got it! So I might say, "hey, I see the SDE on this screen." You see? The screen door effect! This isn't so hard, is it?

Now, let's summarize: Silk tends to glisten far more than a typical screen door, doesn't it? If silk doesn't have a grid pattern like a screen door does, and screen doors tend not to "glisten" like silk, lets go out on a limb here and hypothesize that . . . . they . . . aren't . . . the . . . same . . . thing. . . .

I hope this helps to dispel the odd and unfounded notion that SSE = SDE. If it doesn't make it clear, please do not hesitate to let me know and I'll do my best to break it down in even simpler terms. Fortunately for you, I have a lot of patience and do not fly off the handle as easily as some. So you can count on me in helping you through this confusion you apparently have. That's some comfort, I hope.

Just trying to assist in correcting an obvious misconception . . . .

As has been stated numerous times...
Screen door effect (SDE) results from the pixel structure of the panels in the light engine, or rather the inter-pixel gapsand NOT the screen on the front of the TV. It results in a closely spaced rectangular criss-cross grid that resembles the mesh in a screen door and so that is why it was called screen door effect. This is not much of a problem on DLPs and D-ILA (and soon SXRD) displays where this effect is barely noticeable.

The other ("sparkles") effect is caused by the construction of the (lenticular) screen at the front of the TV that is used to reduce glare and provide for a wide viewing angle but it has the side effect of acting like a myriad of tiny prisms that cause light passing through to "sparkle" slightly, most evident with white areas of a picture. If this were due to SDE then it would not be visible on a DLP or D-ILA TV but it is. Ergo, it is not due to SDE.

Take a close look at your Sony RP-LCD TV and you will see SDE. Now step back a few feet so you can no longer see the SDE, view something white and you should see the fine "sparkles" on the screen. Two totally different things.

I've explained this several times, as have others but you apparently want to discard what you are being told and hold on to your own incorrect understanding.

Edit: looks like FFFRed and I posted simultaneous replies.

Both people gave very good explanations !!! Now why can't people understand it???? Seems pretty simple to me! And obvious when you look at the TV's!!!

Take a close look at your Sony RP-LCD TV and you will see SDE. Now step back a few feet so you can no longer see the SDE, view something white and you should see the fine "sparkles" on the screen. Two totally different things.

I've explained this several times, as have others but you apparently want to discard what you are being told and hold on to your own incorrect understanding.

Edit: FFFred and I posted simultaneous replies, with much the same explanations, though FFF's is a bit more tongue-in-cheek than mine (my patience wore thin several attempts to explain ago and I was having a bad day yesterday ;-).

True, but your post is much better/clearer/concise - I got carried away! I won't deny I had fun writing it, though . . .

I still like empire of one’s BWE. :D

Can we have simultaneous analyses of the cause and effect of this too. :D

I know this might comes as a shock to some, but the Qualia have sparkles as well.

Yes it does, but a lot less than any other microdisplay I've seen. On every other microdisplay, the SSE stands out, but on the Qualia, I can only see it when I'm looking for it, and just barely even then.

Alan,

Since you will get to see one of these bad boys can you also check these items out.

1. Verify the dimensions.
2. Ask about accepting 1080p signal and future capabilities for accepting 1080p.
3. Find out if there are going to be other sizes soon besides 50 and 60.
4. Ask if they plan on getting rid of the Dumbo Ears with different models.
5. Verify contrast ratio
6. Take lots of Hi Res pics from different angles with different content on the screen.

Thanks,

Stephen

We're past a 100 pages!! This product must be one of the first to have created so much hype with $0 marketing expense from Sony :D

Hopefully we'll find out on friday if these sets are the end all and be all of home theater :)

What do you mean, $0 marketing expense? Don't you know half of us in here are Sony industry plants? If you have any doubts about that, just ask Artwood.

Yes it does, but a lot less than any other microdisplay I've seen. On every other microdisplay, the SSE stands out, but on the Qualia, I can only see it when I'm looking for it, and just barely even then.

I honestly don't know any better, but isn't it also related to the source, not just the display; i.e., digital artifacts from the encoding/decoding?

What do you mean, $0 marketing expense? Don't you know half of us in here are Sony industry plants? If you have any doubts about that, just ask Artwood.


Actually, I work in Disneyworld, I’m a Dumbo plant.
:eek: :D

I honestly don't know any better, but isn't it also related to the source, not just the display; i.e., digital artifacts from the encoding/decoding?

Digital Artifacts have NOTHING to to do with SSE. SSE is a result of the SCREEN structure, PERIOD. Will people EVER figure this out? :D

Digital Artifacts have NOTHING to to do with SSE. SSE is a result of the SCREEN structure PERIOD. Will people EVER figure this out? :D

I just now went back and read the latest explanations offered by yourself and FFFred. I would have deleted my post but too late :D

I honestly don't know any better, but isn't it also related to the source, not just the display; i.e., digital artifacts from the encoding/decoding?

It's possible, but the lenticular screen explanation makes more sense to me. When I get up close to the screen, the prism-like effect definitely looks like it's being generated by the screen material, not by any defect in the source.

It may be like RBE on a DLP. The color wheel is the source of the effect, but certain kinds of content (high-contrast, b&w images) make the effect stand out more than others.

What do you mean, $0 marketing expense? Don't you know half of us in here are Sony industry plants? If you have any doubts about that, just ask Artwood.If Artwood decides to buy an SXRD set, I was contemplating letting him use my Sony employee discount.

Digital Artifacts have NOTHING to to do with SSE. SSE is a result of the SCREEN structure, PERIOD. Will people EVER figure this out? :D

I don't know . . . we keep trying, but there probably will always be stragglers . . . sad but true. Our work is never done!

The worst I've seen is on the new Mits 720p RP-LCD sets.I agree 100%. I was looking at this set yesterday and I couldn't believe how noticeable the SSE was. It's a shame, because the set actually produces a nice bright, sharp picture.

Digital Artifacts have NOTHING to to do with SSE. SSE is a result of the SCREEN structure, PERIOD. Will people EVER figure this out? :D

Ok, so if this is true, why do panasonic Dlps Have LESS SSE than thier Rp-lcds...

Shouldnt they have the SAME SSE?

Ok, so if this is true, why do panasonic Dlps Have LESS SSE than thier Rp-lcds...

Shouldnt they have the SAME SSE?

Not really...the viewing angles might be different, and/ or the the screens might be optimized for the DLP, vs. LCD characteristics. Also you might be confusing SSE, with the SDE that is more obvious on the LCD's. SSE is still a result of the SCREEN, not the type of light engine being used.

Its funny Rp-Crt doesent show no SSE SDE.... I wish these Microdisplays Screens werent so Inferior...

I will see one this Friday at CEDIA and write a report when I get home. I hope it has the PQ of a Panny 50 inch plasma, but bigger, and no screen door effect. :)

btw. this may be a stupid question but i've heard that SXRD has the highest pixel-fillrate of all TV-technologies - does that include direct view-CRT? if i look close i see slight spaces between the pixels on my sony CRT, don't know if this is because of the feed (normal programming, dvd or various consoles) or the TV.

[QUOTE=Zues]Its funny Rp-Crt doesent show no SSE SDE.... I wish these Microdisplays Screens werent so Inferior...[/QUOTE

Then go buy one of the outdated things! The micro-displays still look superior to all but the priciest RP-CRT's. I nearly vomit when I see CRT RPTV's at stores next ANY other type of TV..whether it be CRT tube, DLP, LCD projection, or plasma. They look just plain awful! Dim, fuzzy PQ, poor viewing angles, color bleeding around the edges of objects, convergence issues etc. But it is true they don't have SSE or SDE...lol. So why don't you quit asking dumb questions, and go buy an outdated RP-CRT, and leave us alone? :D

Case Closed... :)

LMAO Alan

You owe me $1,000 :rolleyes:

Why does someone owe you $1000??? Fill me in....I have nothing better to do until CEDIA..lol :)

One issue I have about any HD set is the huge variability in the quality of so-called HD prime time shows on the main networks. Most of them look mediocre...kind of dark, and not as sharp as they could be. What gives here? Even my Sony GWIII can look pretty amazing on GOOD HD shows, but as I was flipping through the channels last night, it dawned on me that there isn't really much programming that lets these TV's really shine. Kinda sucks...even if we buy a 5 grand SXRD, the same issues will apply. The only channels with excellent PQ most of the time are Discovery HD, and INHD 1 and 2. Some of the sporting events on the main networks look great..so does the Tonight Show. I guess we can hope the standards improve more the next few years. Until better DVD's arrive, we won't get the most out these TV's on that either. Makes me again wonder if the A-10 50 inch at 2 grand isn't the better choice for the moment, and then we can upgrade to a SXRD for what will likely be a 2 to3 grand selling price in 2 to 4 years when the content better matches the TV's capabliites...Hmmmm

I agree. What would make better sense would be to wait for high picture quality programming to be available and then buy these sets. Unfortunately, who wants to wait.

Something that may help though. My cable company HD DVR (a motorola)was having problems last week and I would up with the non DVR version of their HD receiver. Right off the bat, I could see a lot of noise and problems with dark areas having blacks crushed on the non HD channels and to a much smaller extent on the HD channels. Yesterday, I got another HD DVR, and the problems I saw with the other unit were gone. This is on a 60" GWIII. In this instance, its pretty clear that part of the picture quality problems have to do with the cable box. You might want to take a closer look at the tuner you're using.

[QUOTE=Zues]Its funny Rp-Crt doesent show no SSE SDE.... I wish these Microdisplays Screens werent so Inferior...[/QUOTE

Then go buy one of the outdated things! The micro-displays still look superior to all but the priciest RP-CRT's. I nearly vomit when I see CRT RPTV's at stores next ANY other type of TV..whether it be CRT tube, DLP, LCD projection, or plasma. They look just plain awful! Dim, fuzzy PQ, poor viewing angles, color bleeding around the edges of objects, convergence issues etc. But it is true they don't have SSE or SDE...lol. So why don't you quit asking dumb questions, and go buy an outdated RP-CRT, and leave us alone? :D

It seems like all over the AVS RPTV forum there is a relentless trashing of CRT RPTV's.

I'm going to let this stupid post slide, especially the statement "when I see CRT RPTV's at stores next ANY other type of TV.."

What's up with that? A CRT in a store, C'mon man you have to be more educated about RPTV set up than that!! :(

Actually, I work in Disneyworld, I’m a Dumbo plant.
:eek: :D

And Sony owns Disney, don't they? :D

And Sony owns Disney, don't they? :D

I knew I should’ve said Ringling Bros. :D
...No Sony and Disney are different empires.

One issue I have about any HD set is the huge variability in the quality of so-called HD prime time shows on the main networks. Most of them look mediocre...kind of dark, and not as sharp as they could be. What gives here?

Since the first day I discovered HDTV, I've been asking "why
the extreme variance in PQ from one prog to the next?"
It mostly comes down to graininess. On CBS, the short list is:

Best, no graininess:
Joan of Arcadia
Still Standing
Yes Dear
Center of the Universe
Listen Up

Next tier, some graininess:
CSI/CSI Miami

Worst:
Judging Amy
2.5 men
king of queens
JAG
Without a trace
Cold case
numbers
raymond
NCIS

On NBC...

Best:
Office....this is the one prime time show that is shot with a HD video cam, not
optical which is why it is as close to perfect as it gets.
There was another comedy that was just like Still Standing in terms of
graininess, no longer on. Also, Whoppi from 2003 was top tier, no graininess.
Point is, both NBC and CBS have the technical ability to produce extremely high
quailty progs, but don't most of the time. In other words, why doesn't CBS
produce King of Queens the same way they do Still Standing?

Worst:
Third watch...this prog is so grainy, I almost decline to watch it. Absolutely awful.



Some of the sporting events on the main networks look great..so does the Tonight Show.


That's because they are shot with a HD video cam, not optical cam that
is converted to video post production. Of course this doesn't explain why
Yes Dear has no graininess at all, and Judging Amy is extremely grainy and looks
horrible...both are shot optical then converted.

When I'm ready to make a purchasing decision, I'm taking my computer with several
choice non-grainy video files to Soundtrack to be viewed on various sets.
To make accurate assesment, you need a program that is at least as good
as the equipment you are reviewing. No way I'm leaving that up to chance,
hoping that the store has something good on at the time.

Alan: I agree. People keep saying that the older crt RPTV's have the best PQ. I don't see it and I had a Toshiba rated right below the Pioneer Elite. When I got my Sony A20 I bought them side by side and it wasn't even close the LCD Sony was worlds better and I had that set setup by AVIA disk too.

Come on, keep up with the plot. ;)
He bet me $1,000 a couple of pages back that I was wrong about the SSE thing and claimed it was easy money for him.

When you see the SXRDs at CEDIA could you look to see if the front of the pedestal base protrudes out further than the front of the screen (like it does for the XS955) and if so by how much?

Just for grins AkaStp, whats your explanation for RP-Crts Not having this SSE in thier Screens? :rolleyes: Alan buck diddnt seem to contribute anything but bashing rp-crt... :rolleyes: What did that have to do with SSE and Screens i have no idea... Can we let this SSE debate end soon?

...


Can we let this SSE debate end soon?


Yes, thank you. :)

[QUOTE=AlanBuck]

It seems like all over the AVS RPTV forum there is a relentless trashing of CRT RPTV's.

I'm going to let this stupid post slide, especially the statement "when I see CRT RPTV's at stores next ANY other type of TV.."

What's up with that? A CRT in a store, C'mon man you have to be more educated about RPTV set up than that!! :(

What is this comment supposed to mean? You telling me that your precious, and rapidly fading away CRT-RPTV's are so sensitive that they can't even be judged in a store? That is ridiculous. News flash to you Zues, I refused to even consider a large screen RPTV until the micro-displays came along. Guess why? I could have afforded one long ago...but the overall crummy PQ was a total turn off. You have to be deluded to think the the vast majority of CRT-RPTV's can even begin to compare to any newer technology. They are dim, have screens with reflections so bad you can comb your hair in them, have convergence problems, fuzzy PQ, etc. Hurry and buy another CRT-RPTV before they are all in museums where they belong....they are over and done with! :D

roller11Since the first day I discovered HDTV, I've been asking "why
the extreme variance in PQ from one prog to the next?"
It mostly comes down to graininess.
I don't know what you are viewing your HD with (TV/Source) but I have absolutely no HD Channels with graininess on my Sharp LCD FP. Some better than others but 90% or more are awesome in fact many you list displaying as poor come in perfect on my set.

I have a Comcast HD STB fed via component with a 32" Sharp LCD. TNT Sports, ESPN, Tonight Show, PBS and my entire evening lineup is perfect and Discovery HD blows you away.

Daytime broadcasts that are letterboxed aren't nearly as good but evening is primo on every HD Channel I view and I hope the same experience is offered on my 60" SXRD. I only expect graininess on SD. Those Sitcoms you mention and CSI are stunning on my Sharp and I expect it to go to another level with the SXRD at 60" in a few weeks. All I can make out with the complaints of HD PQ must have to do with older tuners or poor source since what I'm looking at is anything but dull or dark - it's like watching the Vegas Strip. In fact it spoils you when you watch TNT do an HD Golf tournament in HD in 16:9 mode and they switch over to ABC HD which letterboxed it TNT blew away ABC's version (British Open).

I'm not a tennis lover but I viewed the US Open in HD this weekend and talk about WOW - that sport was made for HD. It shocks you sometimes when you observe TNT or PBS do a better broadcaast than the big boys. Oh Well those reporting those bad experiences need to experience it for what it really is - they all blow you away but some more so than others but never have I seen graininess on a HD broadcast.:D

I knew I should’ve said Ringling Bros. :D
...No Sony and Disney are different empires.
That won't be enough to save you when the class action suit is filed against "BIG ENTERTAINMENT" :p

[QUOTE=Auditor55]

I refused to even consider a large screen RPTV until the micro-displays came along. Guess why? I could have afforded one long ago...but the overall crummy PQ was a total turn off. You have to be deluded to think the the vast majority of CRT-RPTV's can even begin to compare to any newer technology. They are dim, have screens with reflections so bad you can comb your hair in them, have convergence problems, fuzzy PQ, etc.


Reflective screens can be removed, my rp-crt diddnt have a reflective screen...

Rp-crts dont show well in a store because you need Darkness, like a movie theater... I would never bash rp-crt cause i know how good they are, you can bet many owners are very satisfied, who will take thier rp-crt to the grave before they get rid of it..

I never regreted rp-crt, and im as picky as they come....

One thing that you can't take away from rp-crt's is their phenomenal black levels. None of the newer technologies can hold a candle to the inky blacks that you get from a properly calibrated rp-crt.

Just for grins AkaStp, whats your explanation for RP-Crts Not having this SSE in thier Screens? :rolleyes: Alan buck diddnt seem to contribute anything but bashing rp-crt... :rolleyes: What did that have to do with SSE and Screens i have no idea... Can we let this SSE debate end soon?

CRT RPTVs use a lenticular screen, I presume for some kind of brightness enhancement as CRTs are inherently pretty dim.

Microdisplay RPTVs use more of a diffusion screen and that screen has a tendency to cause tiny bits of light separation when bombarded with particularly bright light. Those are the sparklies that people are oddly referring to as the silk-screen effect.

Alan: I agree. People keep saying that the older crt RPTV's have the best PQ. I don't see it and I had a Toshiba rated right below the Pioneer Elite. When I got my Sony A20 I bought them side by side and it wasn't even close the LCD Sony was worlds better and I had that set setup by AVIA disk too.


Gary Mearson on LCD RPTV:

Rear Projection LCDs: Gary has a big problem with these devices and doesn't have much positive to say about them. Per Gary, black levels are terrible, and he's never found a properly calibrated LCD unit out-of-the-box. The units also suffer poor contrast ratio, because you can't get a good, dark black. Gary has experienced degradation with LCD pixels dying over time. He's also observed a few LCD televisions on retail showroom floors that have been active for a year or longer and displaying 12 or more stuck or dead pixels. Bottom line is that Gary would never recommend transmissive LCD technology, and he thinks it's a bad technology for consumers given all the problems he's seen. On the plus side, unlike plasma displays, burn-in is not an issue with LCD rear projectors, and they have a slim form-factor.

Stan Glasgow Sony Represenative:

“There are all types of displays for different people, but in my personal opinion there is still no better display for HDTV than CRT. It’s not the thinnest or the lightest technology, but it delivers the best picture performance. We are going to continue with that product until the performance of LCD, plasma, OLED, light emitting, holographic or whatever the next technology is going forward is able to eclipse that.”

Pete Putman on the pitfalls of non-CRT display capabilities:

In the old days, color imaging was accomplished by tickling phosphors with an electron gun. Surprisingly, this system produced (and continues to produce) the most lifelike images of all, which is why a small number of high-end customers still prefer CRT front projectors for home-theater applications.

That's because CRTs are capable of a wide grayscale and can show images with very low luminance levels (shadow detail) as well as very high luminance levels (highlights) in the same scene. More importantly, when a CRT is idling, it is essentially shut off. I mean really shut off, as in black and not a deep gray, as you'll see with LCD, DLP, and LCoS projectors, and AM LCD and plasma monitors.

While there have been tremendous advances in color imaging with flat-panel displays, one stumbling block still remains. And that's the ability (or inability) to show a grayscale with the widest possible dynamic range. In some systems, brightness limits the resolution of the imaging device (CRTs). In others, it's limited by scattered or refracted light (DLP, LCoS, LCD).



Considering the above testimony from the experts I don't understand how you can reach the conclusion that you have. Microdisplay technoloy still have ways to go.

Just give me my SXRD. I hope to be hearing a review soon.

Big ad for Sony HDTV in the WSJ today.

I notice that they are taking pre-orders for the Sony KDS-R50XBR1.

I also see that Crutchfield says they will arrive by mid September. Are we ahead of schedule on this? If this thing is ready to ship this month, certainly someone has this somewhere to evaluate? Is this going to be the HDTV to get? I've been analyzing all the new sets and keep waiting for all the sets to arrive to make a final purchase. I have progressed from the Samsung DLPs to the Mitsubishi DLPS and now this Sony set. I've gone from thinking I would spend about $2k to now about $4k with the Sony.

Are we about a week a way from getting some real feedback on the Sony KDS-R50XBR1?

From Crutchfield site:

Sony KDS-R50XBR1
50" Grand Wega SXRD™ High-Definition 1080p rear-projection TV
Item #158SR50XBR
Expected: 9/19/2005

-CB

Are we about a week a way from getting some real feedback on the Sony KDS-R50XBR1?

-CB

Actually, we're exactly about 36 hours away from real feedback from CEDIA :D

The wait is killing me!

Gary Mearson on LCD RPTV:

Rear Projection LCDs: Gary has a big problem with these devices and doesn't have much positive to say about them. Per Gary, black levels are terrible, and he's never found a properly calibrated LCD unit out-of-the-box. The units also suffer poor contrast ratio, because you can't get a good, dark black. Gary has experienced degradation with LCD pixels dying over time. He's also observed a few LCD televisions on retail showroom floors that have been active for a year or longer and displaying 12 or more stuck or dead pixels. Bottom line is that Gary would never recommend transmissive LCD technology, and he thinks it's a bad technology for consumers given all the problems he's seen. On the plus side, unlike plasma displays, burn-in is not an issue with LCD rear projectors, and they have a slim form-factor.

Stan Glasgow Sony Represenative:

“There are all types of displays for different people, but in my personal opinion there is still no better display for HDTV than CRT. It’s not the thinnest or the lightest technology, but it delivers the best picture performance. We are going to continue with that product until the performance of LCD, plasma, OLED, light emitting, holographic or whatever the next technology is going forward is able to eclipse that.”

Pete Putman on the pitfalls of non-CRT display capabilities:

In the old days, color imaging was accomplished by tickling phosphors with an electron gun. Surprisingly, this system produced (and continues to produce) the most lifelike images of all, which is why a small number of high-end customers still prefer CRT front projectors for home-theater applications.

That's because CRTs are capable of a wide grayscale and can show images with very low luminance levels (shadow detail) as well as very high luminance levels (highlights) in the same scene. More importantly, when a CRT is idling, it is essentially shut off. I mean really shut off, as in black and not a deep gray, as you'll see with LCD, DLP, and LCoS projectors, and AM LCD and plasma monitors.

While there have been tremendous advances in color imaging with flat-panel displays, one stumbling block still remains. And that's the ability (or inability) to show a grayscale with the widest possible dynamic range. In some systems, brightness limits the resolution of the imaging device (CRTs). In others, it's limited by scattered or refracted light (DLP, LCoS, LCD).



Considering the above testimony from the experts I don't understand how you can reach the conclusion that you have. Microdisplay technoloy still have ways to go.

I don't even know who this Gary person is...and what was the date of his review? LCD and DLP projection has come a long way in the past couple of years. I think the Sony rep is probably talking about TUBE type CRT (which truly still is the STANDARD of PQ), ...NOT rear projection type. The other people have valid points also, but I still stand by my opinion that mainstream priced CRT's are inferior to most micro-displays. I was just in 2 stores tonight, and not ONE CRT-RPTV made me say WOW...this looks great. And face it, the things are going the way of the LP album, although some people still cling to those too. I find it amusing that the CRT fans hang in this room, and bash micro-displays. Like I said, if you guys prefer CRT then go buy one. It is a free country afterall.

roller11
I never have I seen graininess on a HD broadcast.:D

I can't speak for you or your video feed. My comments are accuate
based on my observation viewing KCNC-DT and KUSA-DT in Denver, OTA.
If there was something wrong with either the transmission or my equipment,
then Still Standing, Office, CBS NFL football, Leno, Letterman, would
not look stunning as they do most certainly do. If you are really and truly
incapable of seeing a visual difference between, say, Still Standing and
NCIS, then I don't know what to tell you.

People who criticise CRT RPTV’s do so in complete ignorance.
This is understandable given the truly dreadful pictures displayed on them in stores.
However, the reality of CRT RPTV performance is VASTLY different to the perception of people who have never seen one properly calibrated and in an appropriate viewing environment.

I currently have three very different, fully calibrated displays set up in the same room and running from HTPC’s.

Hitachi 57” CRT RPTV (modified and highly tweaked) connected via Component at 1920x1080i
Sony 21” G500 Pro grad CRT PC Monitor connected via VGA at 1920x1080p
Dell 17” wide screen TFT (LCD) panel connected via DVI at 1920x1200p (native panel res).

The same video source can be displayed simultaneously on all displays, and viewing distances are corrected to 4 times screen hight (about 8’ for the 57”), so that they all appear the same size.

Most people would rightfully expect that the CRT RPTV would be blown away by the high quality PC monitors, well guess what, they would be wrong.

Color on these calibrated displays is close to identical and apparent picture clarity and resolution is also essentially identical using the highest bit rate and best quality 1080i HD that US HD TV providers have yet transmitted.
Under bright room lighting the PC monitors have an advantage due to their brightness. But dim the lights and the tables are turned, as not even the Sony CRT monitor can compete against the CRT RPTV for blacks. The CRT RPTV has a 3D quality the PC monitors cant match in dim light

At a viewing distance of 4 times screen hight, all the displays show zero SDE, SSE as well as no posterization or display generated pixelation artefacts of any kind.
The CRT RPTV has near perfect convergence and geometry, with no color fringes, and is a lot better then the much acclaimed Sony direct view 32” and 36” CRT TV’s.

The fact that the CRT RPTV can easily compete for picture quality with top PC monitors under controlled conditions says a hell of a lot about how good they can be.
I have yet to see a 60” Plasma that can compete.

Having said all that, I am looking forward to the release of the SXRD’s.
They will need to be dam good, and I hope and expect that they will be.

We will have to wait a few months for them to be released down under, but we will be getting a 70” version. :D Yes a seventy inch version, as well as a 61” using the new SXRD light engine.
For once we will be getting something that you guys in the US will not. :D
We never got the Qualia 006 down here, so I guess this makes up for it.

I will be waiting to compare the 70” SXRD with the new 65” plus 1080p Plasma offerings before I purchase a replacment for my CRT RPTV.

Owen,

Do you have a URL for the non Qualia 70" SXRD that you can share with us?

Owen,

Do you have a URL for the non Qualia 70" SXRD that you can share with us?


JimP, it is mentioned on Sony's Australian site http://www.sony.com.au/business/article.jsp?id=3546. It is in the 4K projectors section.

I can't speak for you or your video feed. My comments are accuate
based on my observation viewing KCNC-DT and KUSA-DT in Denver, OTA.
If there was something wrong with either the transmission or my equipment,
then Still Standing, Office, CBS NFL football, Leno, Letterman, would
not look stunning as they do most certainly do. If you are really and truly
incapable of seeing a visual difference between, say, Still Standing and
NCIS, then I don't know what to tell you.

I agree...there is a huge difference in the quality of HD shows, even ones on the same network. Example...the Tonight Show on NBC always looks great, while many other NBC HD prime time shows look mediocre. I have the Motorola DVR HD box. I don't think it is the box...it is the effort, and camera equipment being used on the other end. The guy that is bragging how great everything looks on his 32 inch TV may be in for a suprise when he sees some of this crap on a roughly 3 times larger 60 inch screen. All the HD shows are better than they were in SD, but many sure don't display the standard of quality that HD is capable of.

JimP, it is mentioned on Sony's Australian site http://www.sony.com.au/business/article.jsp?id=3546. It is in the 4K projectors section.
Are you sure they're not referring to the Qualia 006? :confused:

Jason