Would anyone here upgrade their 60" in the future for $500?


Just having the option would make me feel 10x better. Not that it will happen, but if Sony came out tomorrow and said 'hey look no 1080p now, but we promise that your set will be elligible for a 1080p upgrade at x price' that would instil so much confidence in my purchase. Electronics are bad enough to purchase, and all the harder when you already know it has shortcomings. <shrug> In the end this probably wont matter at all when I see it in person, eyes glaze over and suddenly find myself swiping my plastic with a big stupid grin. :D

I'll probably find myself in the other end of the boat (certainly bailing water), but I'm really considering buying either an A10 or a 60" XS on clearance and waiting for Sony to get their shite together with 1080p inputs, new cases, and actually put some effort into the new SXRD line. I'm really happy that the SXRDs are available now and are so affordable in comparison to the Qualia 006, but I would have been more than happy to wait another 6 months or a year for them to really put some thought into these new sets. I'm afraid that I'm going to drop as much as $4500 (10% off msrp) on a set that looks EXACTLY like the 1 1/2-year-old XS that I turned my back on less than a year ago. Am I ready to shell out that kind of cash on a TV that was simply "plugged into" the case of the outgoing generation of TVs? If SXRD is that much of an advance, which I'm convinced it is, doesn't it deserve it's own housing? I'd love detachable speakers (as everybody would), or even better...screw the speakers...we don't even want 'em. 1080p inputs...yes please...HDMI, VGA, etc...bring on the sources and the compatability!

I look forward to seeing the SXRDs and I'm sure they'll live up to the hype, but I think I'm going to wait until G2 to get on board. Until then, maybe a 50" A10 or a Panny or Pio plasma is in order...;) Off to the forums...:)

Jason

Lew Black: How did the new Sony look with a matte screen and shiny bezel? How did it compare to the Qualia?

I can't really comment until I see them again at the store in a few weeks. I was on my way to a meeting when I spotted them and stopped for a few minutes to check out the picture, mainly on the 50" as there was a crowd around the Qualia and 60". I was mainly looking for CRT approaching blacks (which they appeared to have, at least in a well lighted environment) and any obvious picture flaws. It could be that the blacks will not be as exciting in a dark room, but I doubt it. The main thing about the matt screen was not obvious reflections, which I find a decent trade for a little SSE in a typical family room. You will be able to see for yourself soon enough! ;) Lew

This would be great, if true. The other thing is how much? I believe the 1080p input upgrade for the Qualia 004 is $3,000. Of course that's only 10% of its price.

Would anyone here upgrade their 60" in the future for $500?

Gamers? HTPC people? Maybe if 1080p content were widely available? Of course, by the time that comes about, there will be a superior 1080p native display technology at a much lower price and we'll all be trading in our SXRD's anyway. :D

Does HDMI not support 1080p? The display is supposed to have an HDMI input, and the playstation 3's is supposed to do video out at 1080p via HDMI. Why is everyone saying that these sets don't support 1080p?

As to your comment about HTPC people...I'm pretty pissed to see that this TV doesn't support any 16:9 resolutions in the first place, combine this with the ugly speakers on this thing and I may wait and see what other companies do with their reflective microdisplays.

:D Life is short...Too short. I want a 1080P set for the improved blacks, no SDE, improved color, better contrast, improved detail, etc. It looks like the new Sony may have delivered the goods. I actaully like the cabinet but it is wider then it needs to be. The wings of prey look cool but the real issue is that in the same space you could fit a 70" set if the wings were clipped. Even if HD-Dvd or Blueray gets off the ground (probably not until next year) there will be a long time before we see mass content. I use Netflixs so until they start shipping the new formats I'll be watching standard DVD's. I would think it may be 2 years off. Also, how much better so you think native 1080P would actually be from 1080I upconverted. Even so not all content would be 1080P anyway. Perhaps only a few channels while other broadcasters would stay with 720P and 1080i. Just go for it and be happy now, is my mantra. If you can't afford it then get the A20 or A10 which are awesome sets in their own right. Lets say that 1080P becomes a DVD standard. The big movie studios are not going to let you plug in a 1080P player withot copy right protection to abate piracy. Therfore, until a standard is developed how can anyone offer 1080P over HDMI? Unless these issues have already been worked out which I don't think they have. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If they can't agree on copy right protection on the players how could they have already implimented a standard an input? If Sony drops its prices on their LCD sets and keeps the SXRD for higher end homes I think they will be a force to reckon with. Lets hope they did extensive testing and put out a bug free set.

I believe that's called "Stream of Consciousness"...

Jason

Does HDMI not support 1080p? The display is supposed to have an HDMI input, and the playstation 3's is supposed to do video out at 1080p via HDMI. Why is everyone saying that these sets don't support 1080p?

As to your comment about HTPC people...I'm pretty pissed to see that this TV doesn't support any 16:9 resolutions in the first place, combine this with the ugly speakers on this thing and I may wait and see what other companies do with their reflective microdisplays.

funky,

1080p over hdmi was not implemented in chips until very recently - i think only the new products at CEDIA this year have it. it might have been in the specs, but no chips did it. almost anything existing out there, and most of what will be available in the next 3-6 months will only have 1080i over hdmi.

as far as HTPCs, any resolution that syncs to a 1080i signal will be accepted. i have last year's xs955, and i run 1000x1776 at 1080i timings - it looks great. no overscan, excellent picture. so as long as you pass it a timing which is compatible with either 720p or 1080i, the tv will definely accept it. of course, pixel perfect mapping over hdmi/dvi results in overscan (quite a bit when i tried dvi/hdmi at 1080i) so i use component for my connection.

i agree with the speakers -really with they were removable. i don't think i have used them ever!

Life is short...Too short. I really want a 1080P set for the improved blacks, no SDE, improved color, better contrast, more improved detail, etc. It looks like the new Sony may have delivered the goods. I actaully like the cabinet but it is wider then it needs to be. The wings of prey look cool and I loved it when I first saw them on the older Sony LCD set. I think the real issue is that in the same space you could fit a 70" set if the wings were clipped. Even if HD-dvd or Blueray gets off the ground (probably not until next year) there will be a long time for mass content. I use Netflixs so until they start shipping the new formats I'll be watching standard DVD's. I would think it may be 2 years off. Also, how much better so you think native 1080P would actually be from 1080I upconverted and not all the content would be 1080P anyway. Perhpas only a few channels while other broadcasters would stay with 720P and 1080i. Just go for it and be happy now is my mantra. If you can't afford it then get the A20 or A10 which is an awesome set in its own right. Lets say that 1080P becomes a DVD standard. The big movie studios are not going to let you plug in a 1080P player withot copy right protection to abate piracy. Therfore, until a standard is developed how can anyone offer 1080P over HDMI. Unless these issues have already been worked out which I don't think they have. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If Sony drops its prices on there LCD sets and keeps the SXRD for higher end homes I think they will be a force to reckon with. Lets hope they did extensive testing and put out a bug free set.

I like the looks of the SXRD also. I think most people would appreciate the speakers being offset from the screen if they stuck with the SU-GW12 stand that the TVs case was designed for. The Stand is 66 1/2 inches wide and the TV will look awesome sitting on top of it. I think that Sony SHOULD HAVE made the speakers detachable for those who aren't going to use Sony's stand.

Dumbo Ears?? I've been reading this throughout this thread, I respectfully dissagree. I like the fact Sony went out of its way to be different. Even if it is the XS case :)

I second the "Wings of Prey" speaker description.

-Dave

Well I'm sure the meeting at Sony went something like this. Our spys tell us that Samsung and the like will all have 1080P DLP sets out by Super Bowl. We need to get our sets in stores ASAP. If we design a new case it will push back our release date by 2-3 months. However, if we retrofit the new sets with the older cabinet design we can meet our deadline. Then one brave sole calls out NO!!! Samsung and the like are building sets more like our A10 and are mounting the speakers on the bottom of the set. Then the guy who is worried about the bottom line reasures the brave sole that the set will sell its self and the cabinet is a moot point. The brave sole make one more suggestion to use the A20 cabinet design which is vetoed because they want to have this new top of the line set itself apart from its lower cost cousin. Competition is usually a good thing but in this case my TV will stick over my bookcase by 2" on each side. This may or may not tear my wife a new one but I have a feeling I'll be hearing about it for a long time.

Yea, I think the Home Guy is correct on this.

As an avid reader of this forum I've been reluctant to post anything until I thought I could add something to the discussion. After spending two days at CEDIA and hours in front of the latest tv and projector offerings (particularly those from Sony), I would just like to share the following thoughts. I've followed this thread from inception and came to CEDIA incredibly excited about Sony's new 50" and 60" SXRDs. I was sure the sets would look great and I would order one shortly thereafter. After watching both at length (particularly the 60"), I'm pretty sure I will not be getting one almost completely due to one big issue (at least for me). :(

The sets were located in relatively dark surroundings being fed 1080i loop (consisting mostly of Sony movie previews and sports), and were positioned on either side of the 70" Qualia, which was being fed a different 1080i loop consisting mostly of slow moving nature video. The colors, contrast, blacks were all very good on the two sets. I pretty much agree with AlanBucks's observations above. However, the "dumbo ears", black shiny bezel and lack of 1080P input are not issues for me.

The big issue for me is the matte screen. In a relatively dark setting, anytime the tv was showing something bright, I could clearly see the surface of the screen at all distances up to about 8' or 10' and it was incredibly distracting for me. (This I suspect is what AlanBuck and others may be calling SSE, I don't know.) The immersion, looking through the window feeling was notably absent. The Qualia with its lenticular screen, not surprisingly didn't have this issue and was truly spectacular. I think it was a huge mistake for Sony reps (if they were trying to impress people with these new tv's insteads of selling more Qualias) to put these tv's in a darkened setting next to the Qualia, which looked vastly superior by comparison IMHO, especially since it's bigger, has much wider viewing angles and seemingly had much better video material to show off its strengths.

Sony had another 60" SXRD with blue ray feed (movie previews) in a much better lit setting in another part of their booth and there the matte screen didn't bother me much at all. The material also was better quality I think. The bottom line for me is I think the tv will be great in a relatively well lit room or in the daytime, but may not please people like myself who mostly watch their tv's at night with little ambient light.

Couple of other things. Not to get anyone's hopes up, but a Sony rep said that the Qualia's 006 MSRP for next year will be under review in the next two weeks at some big corporate meeting. New pricing (if any) will be announced in November.

Spent a lot of time in the JVC booth looking at their sets and talking to their reps. Their 70" offering looked good but again due to the matte screen for me was a far cry from the Qualia. The rep said that he expects most people will conclude the Qualia is superior but at less than half the price ($6k MSRP) it doesn't need to be as good. He also said that JVC and other manufacturers did not implement 1080P inputs on their sets because the version of HDMI inputs (1.2 I think) that everyone is using does not accept 1080P. He said the next generation HDMI input (1.3) will accept 1080P and thought the next JVC D-ILA model would have it. He assumed that the new Sony SXRD projector must have it.

I will wait to see these tv's again when they get to the showrooms where I bet they will sell very well given the bright settings.

As an avid reader of this forum I've been reluctant to post anything until I thought I could add something to the discussion. After spending two days at CEDIA and hours in front of the latest tv and projector offerings (particularly those from Sony), I would just like to share the following thoughts. I've followed this thread from inception and came to CEDIA incredibly excited about Sony's new 50" and 60" SXRDs. I was sure the sets would look great and I would order one shortly thereafter. After watching both at length (particularly the 60"), I'm pretty sure I will not be getting one almost completely due to one big issue (at least for me). :(

The sets were located in relatively dark surroundings being fed 1080i loop (consisting mostly of Sony movie previews and sports), and were positioned on either side of the 70" Qualia, which was being fed a different 1080i loop consisting mostly of slow moving nature video. The colors, contrast, blacks were all very good on the two sets. I pretty much agree with AlanBucks's observations above. However, the "dumbo ears", black shiny bezel and lack of 1080P input are not issues for me.

The big issue for me is the matte screen. In a relatively dark setting, anytime the tv was showing something bright, I could clearly see the surface of the screen at all distances up to about 8' or 10' and it was incredibly distracting for me. (This I suspect is what AlanBuck and others may be calling SSE, I don't know.) The immersion, looking through the window feeling was notably absent. The Qualia with its lenticular screen, not surprisingly didn't have this issue and was truly spectacular. I think it was a huge mistake for Sony reps (if they were trying to impress people with these new tv's insteads of selling more Qualias) to put these tv's in a darkened setting next to the Qualia, which looked vastly superior by comparison IMHO, especially since it's bigger, has much wider viewing angles and seemingly had much better video material to show off its strengths.

Sony had another 60" SXRD with blue ray feed (movie previews) in a much better lit setting in another part of their booth and there the matte screen didn't bother me much at all. The material also was better quality I think. The bottom line for me is I think the tv will be great in a relatively well lit room or in the daytime, but may not please people like myself who mostly watch their tv's at night with little ambient light.

Couple of other things. Not to get anyone's hopes up, but a Sony rep said that the Qualia's 006 MSRP for next year will be under review in the next two weeks at some big corporate meeting. New pricing (if any) will be announced in November.

Spent a lot of time in the JVC booth looking at their sets and talking to their reps. Their 70" offering looked good but again due to the matte screen for me was a far cry from the Qualia. The rep said that he expects most people will conclude the Qualia is superior but at less than half the price ($6k MSRP) it doesn't need to be as good. He also said that JVC and other manufacturers did not implement 1080P inputs on their sets because the version of HDMI inputs (1.2 I think) that everyone is using does not accept 1080P. He said the next generation HDMI input (1.3) will accept 1080P and thought the next JVC D-ILA model would have it. He assumed that the new Sony SXRD projector must have it.

I will wait to see these tv's again when they get to the showrooms where I bet they will sell very well given the bright settings.


Nice observations, I was worried that the Qualia screen might make a lot of difference but then there was reports that the SXRD's would also have a plexiglass type of screen and people were worried about reflections. The matte screen is definitely a minus to me because I feel it gives the TV the RP look while the Qualia looks almost plasma like with its screen. I decided to cancel the SXRD 60" order just to many negatives with the screen, no 1080P input, and extra width. I will get a panny or pioneer plasma and enjoy my Denon 2900 picture with that display. One thing I have learned and that is this technology gets better and cheaper pretty quickly so I will just wait a year or 2 and hope Sony delivers, who knows I might end up going with theater set up and get the "Ruby". Good luck to everyone.

Too bad we don't know if a bottle of windex would remove the coating on these matte screens so that those of us who wants the "Qualia 006" look could get it.

I too think Sony should have made the speakers detachable. I would never use them as any set I buy would be used with my home theatre system. It just makes the set wider than it need be. I may have been able to go with the 60" set if it were not for the bloody undetachable speakers!

I really don't have any problem with the design, but unless this set really blows me away with its PQ, the fact that these speakers cannot be detached may turn me off this set. I may wait a year to see if Sony gets it right! :(

It may be possible to remove the anti reflective screen.
This is often done on CRT RPTV’s to get rid of the usual shiny screen.

Most RPTV’s have two layer screens, an inner lenticular type and an out protective screen that can be anti reflective or not.

Too bad we don't know if a bottle of windex would remove the coating on these matte screens so that those of us who wants the "Qualia 006" look could get it.

Given the extreme weight difference, I tend to doubt that it would be simply a matter of removing a matte finish coating, if it is a coating to begin with...

...


This may or may not tear my wife a new one but I have a feeling I'll be hearing about it for a long time.

I would have to disagree on who will be getting torn a new one :D

Movie Buff: Thanks for the insightfull review of the new Sony sets. I wish I could have attended CEDIA but work got in the way. I guess we all have our own needs because I was thinking of cancelling my order, for the SXRD, if it had a reflective screen. My old CRT had a plexiglass screen and I always had to close the shades and turn off the lights to enjoy that set. My next set was a 60" A20 (great set too) and my wife couldn't stop raving about the matte screen and how it didn'tt reflect direct light. Even on a very bright day with light streaming through the window the A20 was a dream to watch and the screen was not distracting at all. I returned the A20 once the decision was made for the new 1080P set. My friend lent me a 43" Pioneer Plasma (he is moving) and now the wife (and daughter) are miserable again with the reflective glass screen. The sets is current and I actually liked my A20 better then the PQ of this plasma. So for me the matte screen is a blessing. In a totally dark room the reflective screen probably would have benefited the PQ. One guy who had a Qualia said that his daughter uses the screen to watch herself dance when the set is off.

I was also wondering what you thought of the JVC sets. My original plan was to get a JVC D-ila because of the cabinet but I've read too many complaints about poor QC and several stores in my area stopped ordering replacement units once they ran out of product. JVC was the only kid on the block but with Brillian, Sony, LG and the like ramping up with LcOS sets they will have stiff competition. Competition is great but it has a way of weeding out the weak and I know Sony will survive but...........

One last thing. You said there was some SSE on the new Sony sets. I think there is a lot of confusion what the Silk Screen Effect is. Could you perhaps explain this a bit better. I'll be back 12.5' from the set so I doubt that SSE will be an issue. The A20 has SDE where you could see the boxy pixels and noise pretty easily but on great feeds and at the proper viewing distance it wasn't that much of a ditraction.

I'll probably find myself in the other end of the boat (certainly bailing water), but I'm really considering buying either an A10 or a 60" XS on clearance and waiting for Sony to get their shite together with 1080p inputs, new cases, and actually put some effort into the new SXRD line. I'm really happy that the SXRDs are available now and are so affordable in comparison to the Qualia 006, but I would have been more than happy to wait another 6 months or a year for them to really put some thought into these new sets. I'm afraid that I'm going to drop as much as $4500 (10% off msrp) on a set that looks EXACTLY like the 1 1/2-year-old XS that I turned my back on less than a year ago. Am I ready to shell out that kind of cash on a TV that was simply "plugged into" the case of the outgoing generation of TVs? If SXRD is that much of an advance, which I'm convinced it is, doesn't it deserve it's own housing? I'd love detachable speakers (as everybody would), or even better...screw the speakers...we don't even want 'em. 1080p inputs...yes please...HDMI, VGA, etc...bring on the sources and the compatability!

I look forward to seeing the SXRDs and I'm sure they'll live up to the hype, but I think I'm going to wait until G2 to get on board. Until then, maybe a 50" A10 or a Panny or Pio plasma is in order...;) Off to the forums...:)

Jason

wow, perpetual shopper?

...as far as HTPCs, any resolution that syncs to a 1080i signal will be accepted. i have last year's xs955, and i run 1000x1776 at 1080i timings - it looks great. no overscan, excellent picture...of course, pixel perfect mapping over hdmi/dvi results in overscan (quite a bit when i tried dvi/hdmi at 1080i) so i use component for my connection.
I'm planning an HTPC system for the SXRD. How is your SX995 connected to your computer via component? My Mac only has DVI output.

I see that you were able to display 1080i over DVI. How did you set your computer video output to be interlaced?

Given the extreme weight difference, I tend to doubt that it would be simply a matter of removing a matte finish coating, if it is a coating to begin with...

Good point. Went back and looked at the pdf file and didn't see where they include one of those silicon cleaning cloths nor a warning about cleaning the screen. Does sound like the non glare finish is built into the screen as opposed to some coating.

I think we all need to remember the particular markets these sets are going after. The Qualia is going after a very elite group of consumers -- those that are rather affluent and are, for the most part, huge videophiles. These consumers are probably wiling to make some room adjustments to get the very best picture possible out of the Q.

Meanwhile the XBR models are following on the heels of the Q; the XBRs are going after the mass market consumer. John Smith and his wife are not going to rearrange their living room so that they do not see any reflections in their television -- they'll simply return the set for one with a matte screen. Sony loses sales, and now we have an issue with moving product -- the things are not selling. The bottom line is what its all about, especially for Sony right now....

Simply said, Sony made a decision to go for the masses, and I can't blame them for that. I have a window directly behind the TV, and the matte screen is a welcome feature, but I can also understand others viewpoints on having a glossy screen.

It's too bad Sony could not make the set and sell a particular screen to go with it :(

Chris

I think we all need to remember the particular markets these sets are going after. The Qualia is going after a very elite group of consumers -- those that are rather affluent and are, for the most part, huge videophiles. These consumers are probably wiling to make some room adjustments to get the very best picture possible out of the Q.

Meanwhile the XBR models are following on the heels of the Q; the XBRs are going after the mass market consumer. John Smith and his wife are not going to rearrange their living room so that they do not see any reflections in their television -- they'll simply return the set for one with a matte screen. Sony loses sales, and now we have an issue with moving product -- the things are not selling. The bottom line is what its all about, especially for Sony right now....

Simply said, Sony made a decision to go for the masses, and I can't blame them for that. I have a window directly behind the TV, and the matte screen is a welcome feature, but I can also understand others viewpoints on having a glossy screen.

It's too bad Sony could not make the set and sell a particular screen to go with it :(

Chris

Based on this forum, I think all TV manufacturers would be best suited following the example of the home computer market, allow consumers to build their own sets :D

wow, perpetual shopper?
No...though it's close...;)

I'm just thinking that there are too many compromises with the SXRDs at this point for me to feel comfortable dropping $4.5K on one right now. Maybe the 2nd generation sets will have the various issues worked out, but unless I'm absolutely blown away by the PQ when I see it, I'll probably opt for a <$3k 60" XS or the 50A10 or check out the Panny and Pio plasmas. It's a disappointing realization to come to, because I've been really excited to see these sets, but the more I think about it, the more I believe that Sony just rushed these to market instead of putting some real thought and effort into them. Hopefully the next gen will bear the fruits of their labors...

Jason

No...though it's close...;)

I'm just thinking that there are too many compromises with the SXRDs at this point for me to feel comfortable dropping $4.5K on one right now. Maybe the 2nd generation sets will have the various issues worked out, but unless I'm absolutely blown away by the PQ when I see it, I'll probably opt for a <$3k 60" XS or the 50A10 or check out the Panny and Pio plasmas. It's a disappointing realization to come to, because I've been really excited to see these sets, but the more I think about it, the more I believe that Sony just rushed these to market instead of putting some real thought and effort into them. Hopefully the next gen will bear the fruits of their labors...

Jason

Understandable, but the only thing that people seem to feel was rushed to market was the reuse of the case and IMO, that wasn't simply a matter of rushing to market but a typical manufacturing approach.

There are soooooooooooooo many new features and improvements in these sets (static iris (for global setting), dynamic iris (for dynamic refinements), new and improved sxrd chips, etc.) that I just can't find myself feeling these sets were rushed to market.

In the end, I am not likely to buy one of these at the present moment due to a temporary reduction in my disposable income and therefore I may end up with a "secong gen" set, but it isn't because I feel these were rushed to market; after all, I do already own a Q006 :)

Good point. Went back and looked at the pdf file and didn't see where they include one of those silicon cleaning cloths nor a warning about cleaning the screen. Does sound like the non glare finish is built into the screen as opposed to some coating.

Jim, page 6 of the pdf file indicates it is a non-reflective coating on the screen and gives cautions regarding cleaning.

Jim, page 6 of the pdf file indicates it is a non-reflective coating on the screen and gives cautions regarding cleaning.

The Qualia 006 has such a coating and such language as well, but has a much greater weight. While I am not doubting there is a "coating" on the GW SXRD sets, I believe that the non-glossy appearance is due to the physical properties of the screen.

I completely agree with HomeGuy, the anti-glare matte finish screen is far better for a typical living room setup. I currently have a 32" crt and can't stand having to black out the room to watch anything. The matte finish is the main reason I am going with a microdisplay instead of a CRT RPTV. I can't wait to see the SXRD's.

I can't really comment until I see them again at the store in a few weeks. I was on my way to a meeting when I spotted them and stopped for a few minutes to check out the picture, mainly on the 50" as there was a crowd around the Qualia and 60". I was mainly looking for CRT approaching blacks (which they appeared to have, at least in a well lighted environment) and any obvious picture flaws. It could be that the blacks will not be as exciting in a dark room, but I doubt it. The main thing about the matt screen was not obvious reflections, which I find a decent trade for a little SSE in a typical family room. You will be able to see for yourself soon enough! ;) Lew

For what it is worth, I wouldn't say they were in a 'well lighted environment'. The room wasn't totally dark, but it was so dark that I missed the fact that the bezels on the TV's were shiny for quite a long time. And the blacks did look quite good. As Lew says though...we can't totally judge the blacks until one of these things is in a totally dark room in someones home.

The Qualia 006 has such a coating and such language as well, but has a much greater weight. While I am not doubting there is a "coating" on the GW SXRD sets, I believe that the non-glossy appearance is due to the physical properties of the screen.

I imagine the cleaning instructions are a generic thing to all Sony RPTV's, as in 'don't screw up your screen'...lol :)

I would love to see CBS get whacked in ratings as punishment for giving us, the viewers, the ugliest, most unappealing presentation possible.

Won't get me to watch "reality" shows no matter how great an HD image they broadcast - I'd like to see all the "reality" shows get whacked in the ratings for being such crap.

Alan: It's great news that the new SXRD comes with a matte screen. Did the reflective screen on the Qualia make the difference in PQ since you said the Qualia looked a little better? Was the clarity and detail as sharp as the Qualia or is the picture soften like teh Samsung?

I think the matte screen does indeed soften the pic a bit compared to the QUALIA. As said before, it also introduces the super-fine sparkle effect to the light colored areas of the screen that AVS guys have labled 'SSE' for Silk Screen Effect'. I still thought the TV had a great PQ overall, but it would be even better if the SSE wasn't present.

Have we figured out for sure yet how the SXRD's deinterlace 1080i yet? Bob, 3:2? Would be kind of a bummer to buy this tv and have it throw out half the image all the time (if my understanding of this topic is correct)

Thanks

As mentioned by others above, there is a 50" A10 and a 55" A20 but no 50" A20 and no 55" A10. Hope that makes sense. You know what (and I never thought I would say this) but I'm actually coming to the realization that the 50A10 is a very nice TV and at very good price (a little over $2K if you shop around) and would be an ideal first HDTV and carry one along for a year or two until 1080p becomes more mainstream and the 1080p sets are further refined.
Oops, I hope Gazelle, etc won't now accuse me of being a Sony plant ;)

My feeling right now is to go for the 50 inch A-10 also. It has PQ a couple notches below the SXRD, but it still very nice overall. It is half the price, and fits my existing pricey entertainment center (no dumbo ears). I figure I can use it for a couple years, sell it to friends, and then buy the SXRD after the prices will have dropped a grand or more, the dumbo ears will be gone, they will have 1080P inputs, and Blue Ray or similar DVD's will finally be available to fully utilize the capabilities of the set.

Alan: Great plan I really should buy a 50" A10 and then in a year put that set in my bedroom and then upgrade to a 70" in the livingroom. If you're a little patient the 60" sxrd sets will drop in price by Christmas. I predict the average price at 3,800.00. This is just a hunch.

WooHoo, I'm out of the closet!! Feels pretty good out here.

I've been lurking and evesdropping on all of you for months, ever since my venerable Pioneer Elite 55" analog RP decided to develop $700 worth of convergence problems in the lower half of the screen that I ain't a'gonna fix. But enough about me.

For AlanBuck, Lew Black or anyone who has seen these sets at CEDIA:

The reviews on Sony's Dynamic Iris seem somewhat mixed thus far, with respect to the A10 series, with one or two posters declaring it downright annoying.

Two questions: (1) while viewing the SXRD's, did you notice the DI making auto adjustments and, if so, how did you feel about that? (2) Could you hear the DI operating? The manual for the A10 series specifically says that "creaking sounds" from the Auto Iris may be heard and are normal. My suspicion is that it was probably far too noisy at CEDIA to observe this, but had to ask.

A great big thank you to everyone and to avsforum in general, for totally paralyzing me with data overload since last February, along with some brilliant humor from many of you - you know who you are!

One sweet thing about analysis paralysis in this game - the longer you wait, the cheaper and better it all gets. Up to a certain point, that is. I'll be a sad panda Monday night, watching the Eagles-Eagles-Atlanta-Atlanta game-game on my misconverged RP. Glad I waited though!

Alan

WooHoo, I'm out of the closet!! Feels pretty good out here.

I've been lurking and evesdropping on all of you for months, ever since my venerable Pioneer Elite 55" analog RP decided to develop $700 worth of convergence problems in the lower half of the screen that I ain't a'gonna fix. But enough about me.

For AlanBuck, Lew Black or anyone who has seen these sets at CEDIA:

The reviews on Sony's Dynamic Iris seem somewhat mixed thus far, with respect to the A10 series, with one or two posters declaring it downright annoying.

Two questions: (1) while viewing the SXRD's, did you notice the DI making auto adjustments and, if so, how did you feel about that? (2) Could you hear the DI operating? The manual for the A10 series specifically says that "creaking sounds" from the Auto Iris may be heard and are normal. My suspicion is that it was probably far too noisy at CEDIA to observe this, but had to ask.

A great big thank you to everyone and to avsforum in general, for totally paralyzing me with data overload since last February, along with some brilliant humor from many of you - you know who you are!

One sweet thing about analysis paralysis in this game - the longer you wait, the cheaper and better it all gets. Up to a certain point, that is. I'll be a sad panda Monday night, watching the Eagles-Eagles-Atlanta-Atlanta game-game on my misconverged RP. Glad I waited though!

Alan

From what I have read, the iris issues can be solved on the A-10's by adjusting them down to a less agressive level. I didn't notice the iris operating on the SXRD, and as you guessed it was too loud there to make any judgement about fan, or iris noises. It is intersting that in spite of Sony's warning about 'creaking sounds' coming from the A-10 iris, I have not yet noticed any complaints about it in the A-10 forum.

I like the looks of the SXRD also. I think most people would appreciate the speakers being offset from the screen if they stuck with the SU-GW12 stand that the TVs case was designed for. The Stand is 66 1/2 inches wide and the TV will look awesome sitting on top of it. I think that Sony SHOULD HAVE made the speakers detachable for those who aren't going to use Sony's stand.

Dumbo Ears?? I've been reading this throughout this thread, I respectfully dissagree. I like the fact Sony went out of its way to be different. Even if it is the XS case :)

I second the "Wings of Prey" speaker description.

-Dave

I agree completely. I will buy the Sony stand, and it will look great. I think as with all subjects, the people who dont like something are a lot more vocal than the people who do like something, and i bet there are a lot more people than we realize who DO like the side speakers. Not only do they look like something out of Star Trek, but they make the whole set look wider and sleeker, plus they certainly spread out the speakers as far as you can for the best separation for those who will not always be using other speakers.

I just wonder since they used the old case, if the new set could have been not so deep. I wish it was smaller from front to back, but i will live with it.

One more comment, I am very happy it has a matte screen. I am tired of dealing with reflections in my room, there are only so many adjustments you can make to lighting, and we cant all be constantly watching in darkness (particularly with the wifey in the room). I do think that something like a screen though should be an option, you should simply have your choice of a matte or shiny screen, a simple dealer-installed screen option could make a lot of people happy.

As an avid reader of this forum I've been reluctant to post anything until I thought I could add something to the discussion. After spending two days at CEDIA and hours in front of the latest tv and projector offerings (particularly those from Sony), I would just like to share the following thoughts. I've followed this thread from inception and came to CEDIA incredibly excited about Sony's new 50" and 60" SXRDs. I was sure the sets would look great and I would order one shortly thereafter. After watching both at length (particularly the 60"), I'm pretty sure I will not be getting one almost completely due to one big issue (at least for me). :(

The sets were located in relatively dark surroundings being fed 1080i loop (consisting mostly of Sony movie previews and sports), and were positioned on either side of the 70" Qualia, which was being fed a different 1080i loop consisting mostly of slow moving nature video. The colors, contrast, blacks were all very good on the two sets. I pretty much agree with AlanBucks's observations above. However, the "dumbo ears", black shiny bezel and lack of 1080P input are not issues for me.

The big issue for me is the matte screen. In a relatively dark setting, anytime the tv was showing something bright, I could clearly see the surface of the screen at all distances up to about 8' or 10' and it was incredibly distracting for me. (This I suspect is what AlanBuck and others may be calling SSE, I don't know.) The immersion, looking through the window feeling was notably absent. The Qualia with its lenticular screen, not surprisingly didn't have this issue and was truly spectacular. I think it was a huge mistake for Sony reps (if they were trying to impress people with these new tv's insteads of selling more Qualias) to put these tv's in a darkened setting next to the Qualia, which looked vastly superior by comparison IMHO, especially since it's bigger, has much wider viewing angles and seemingly had much better video material to show off its strengths.

Sony had another 60" SXRD with blue ray feed (movie previews) in a much better lit setting in another part of their booth and there the matte screen didn't bother me much at all. The material also was better quality I think. The bottom line for me is I think the tv will be great in a relatively well lit room or in the daytime, but may not please people like myself who mostly watch their tv's at night with little ambient light.

Couple of other things. Not to get anyone's hopes up, but a Sony rep said that the Qualia's 006 MSRP for next year will be under review in the next two weeks at some big corporate meeting. New pricing (if any) will be announced in November.

Spent a lot of time in the JVC booth looking at their sets and talking to their reps. Their 70" offering looked good but again due to the matte screen for me was a far cry from the Qualia. The rep said that he expects most people will conclude the Qualia is superior but at less than half the price ($6k MSRP) it doesn't need to be as good. He also said that JVC and other manufacturers did not implement 1080P inputs on their sets because the version of HDMI inputs (1.2 I think) that everyone is using does not accept 1080P. He said the next generation HDMI input (1.3) will accept 1080P and thought the next JVC D-ILA model would have it. He assumed that the new Sony SXRD projector must have it.

I will wait to see these tv's again when they get to the showrooms where I bet they will sell very well given the bright settings.Wow, talk about dropping a bomb on your first post. Everything was cruising along nicely and then ... WAMMO! I hope the SSE isn't as bad as you make it out to be. It never really bothered me on the other Sony's when I saw them in stores, but I definitely was put off by it on a Mits recently. Now I'm suddenly second guessing myself. I will be watching almost everything in a totally dark room. Am I screwed?

yankeeman: I predict the speakers go to the bottom and that SOny comes out with a 65 or 67" set.

I see the list price for the SXRD's are $3999 for the 50", and $4999 for the 60". Based on previous years TV introductions by Sony, does anyone hazard a guess as to what the initial street prices might be? I've been on the verge of jumping on a 1080p Samsung 56", but with the initial reports from CEDIA about the Sony SXRD's, I would contemplate a 50" SXRD if the street price becomes comparable to the 56" 1080p DLP's.

Any thoughts? Guesses?

From what I have read, the iris issues can be solved on the A-10's by adjusting them down to a less agressive level. I didn't notice the iris operating on the SXRD, and as you guessed it was too loud there to make any judgement about fan, or iris noises. It is intersting that in spite of Sony's warning about 'creaking sounds' coming from the A-10 iris, I have not yet noticed any complaints about it in the A-10 forum.

Thanks Alan. I had read that too, but it made me wonder if adjusting the iris down to a level where it wasn't annoying defeated its purpose to a certain extent. I'll keep an eye on that DI thread.

Anyway, your review of the SXRD's black level and shadow detail is encouraging, as is your noting of the lack of complaints about "creaking sounds" coming from this hi-tech stuff.

Alan

I'm presuming you are referring to the new Mits RP-LCD sets as having bad SSE. I would agree with you on that, they are rather bad. Much worse than the newer Sonys. As I think I mentioned yesterday the SSE on the newer Sony A10s and A20s is not too bad, better than the previous models. So hopefully the SXRD will be no worse in this area.

The Mitsubishi and Samsung 1080P DLP out now look awful. That's why Sony kicked their ass with the 3LCD. My grandmother had a better TV at a tenth the price, dude! About time somebody came out with a real 1080P set with no spinning color wheels and a real, full 1080P chip. Can't wait to see these SXRD and JVC sets. Hope they ain't just Show Hype.

I'm presuming you are referring to the new Mits RP-LCD sets as having bad SSE. I would agree with you on that, they are rather bad. Much worse than the newer Sonys. As I think I mentioned yesterday the SSE on the newer Sony A10s and A20s is not too bad, better than the previous models. So hopefully the SXRD will be no worse in this area.

I would not call the SSE on the SXRD's 'bad' at all. But it is there. I think it is one of those things that the more you think about it, the more you notice it. But if you just watch the TV, you probably won't notice it much at all.

I'll probably find myself in the other end of the boat (certainly bailing water), but I'm really considering buying either an A10 or a 60" XS on clearance and waiting for Sony to get their shite together with 1080p inputs, new cases, and actually put some effort into the new SXRD line. I'm really happy that the SXRDs are available now and are so affordable in comparison to the Qualia 006, but I would have been more than happy to wait another 6 months or a year for them to really put some thought into these new sets. I'm afraid that I'm going to drop as much as $4500 (10% off msrp) on a set that looks EXACTLY like the 1 1/2-year-old XS that I turned my back on less than a year ago. Am I ready to shell out that kind of cash on a TV that was simply "plugged into" the case of the outgoing generation of TVs? If SXRD is that much of an advance, which I'm convinced it is, doesn't it deserve it's own housing? I'd love detachable speakers (as everybody would), or even better...screw the speakers...we don't even want 'em. 1080p inputs...yes please...HDMI, VGA, etc...bring on the sources and the compatability!

I look forward to seeing the SXRDs and I'm sure they'll live up to the hype, but I think I'm going to wait until G2 to get on board. Until then, maybe a 50" A10 or a Panny or Pio plasma is in order...;) Off to the forums...:)

Jason

I agree with Jason on this one. I am going to 'cheap out' for now and buy the A-10 (50 inch). One issue though...the A-10's are selling so fast that they are out-of-stock at a lot of stores around here. And the advertised prices have been RISING...UGH. A few weeks ago one retailer had it advertised for 2 grand here. Now the best prices I can find from B&M stores are about $2350.00. Guess I will have to watch and wait for a while.

I was also wondering what you thought of the JVC sets.

One last thing. You said there was some SSE on the new Sony sets. I think there is a lot of confusion what the Silk Screen Effect is. Could you perhaps explain this a bit better. I'll be back 12.5' from the set so I doubt that SSE will be an issue. The A20 has SDE where you could see the boxy pixels and noise pretty easily but on great feeds and at the proper viewing distance it wasn't that much of a ditraction.


I liked them all (56", 61" and 70") but it's very hard to compare with SXRD's because lighting conditions (brighter) and material (1080i concert video loop and 1080i nature video loop) were so different. The material did not permit you to really judge the blacks. Aesthetically, JVC's looked fine to me (all black with speakers at the bottom) which their sales rep made a point about in a not too subtle dig at "others" whose 60" tvs are really 66" in width. One thing I didn't like was their blue power on light right underneath the screen, which the rep agreed was a little distracting and didn't know if you could turn off. He suggested putting black masking tape over it. :rolleyes:

Again, not sure exactly what others are seeing and calling SSE, but for me it was looking at the picture in a dimly lit setting and for bright scenes particularly, seeing the surface of the screen illuminated (not pixelization or noise) and being distracted because there was something static there competing with the image. The best analogy I can come up with is this. Imagine looking into a fish tank or out of a window and the glass not being completely clean. As you get relatively close, if you're in an environment where it's darker than the light inside the fish tank or outside, you can see the water marks. As you step back or if the room you're in is well lit, you can't see the water marks. I think at 12.5' you'll be fine.

By the way, none of the big name 1080 DLPs I saw (Toshiba, Sharp, Samsung) in my opinion compared favorably to the SXRDs or the HD-ILAs. Although again it was hard to compare given different source materials and lighting conditions. Actually the best 1080 DLP picture to my eyes was the 65" HP (which I couldn't believe), although the aesthetics of the set are definitely unique and may be an acquired taste.

We can expect that Sony sent as perfect a sample as ever made to the show though. :)
Shouldn't we assume that all manufacturers have this?

I appreciate those who has gone to CEDIA and reviewed what they saw. The objectivity in the reviews have been very helpful.

Is there some sort of rule at CEDIA against taking pictures?? I've had an opportunity a few times to go to the CES show and thats the first thing I'm packing out the door... Camera.... for pictures.... argh!!!

I'm putting in a formal request. The next AVSForum member having a chance to get to the CEDIA show.... please, take pictures... you'll be the first one the web to post 'em, I know 'cuzz I've looked and there aren't any '05 SXRD pictures... only qualia 006 stuff. Be a Hero, take the picture :)

<going into convulsions> :eek:


-Dave

It looks a good deal better than the A-10's, nice as they may be. The SXRD is sharper, has no Screen Door Effect at all, and has better contrast, and black levels. As I stated earlier though, the diffference was more obvious in the 60 inch screen size.

I just left CEDIA an hour ago and I would agree completely with these comments. I was recently impressed with the new A10's but after seeing the new SXRDs today all I can say now is WOW! IMHO, these new models continue to get better and better. I could definitely see the SDE on the A10's at the show, but as Alan mentioned, I sure didn't notice it on the 50" and 60" SXRDs. These sets are sweet!

BTW, I was able to snap some dig. pics but unfortunately I'm still downtown, now working my radio shift. I'll try to post some of them early this evening before I head out to watch the Colts/Ravens game in HD on a friend's new HDTV (Don't know what he got, but anxious to see what it is!).

Steve

There is a seperate thread about the Dynamic Iris. Anyway, I have not heard it operating on the A10 but it can be a little annoying and result in flicker in certain types of material. One place it is particularly noticeable is the closing credits of a movie if they are white text on a black background. I noticed this last night after watching Sphere. The DI did a great job with the content of Sphere though which has a lot of very dark content. The DI can be turned off if its a problem.

Got it. I'll keep a check on that DI thread. Thanks also for your expert user feedback on the A10 iris.

Hate to keep bringing up the matte vs. shiny screen topic, but what happened to the aftermarket screen protectors that were sold years ago for big screen RPTV's before manufacturers started including them? Couldn't you put one of those on the SXRD and make it look more like the Qualia, if you wanted to. Any ideas?

I liked them all (56", 61" and 70") but it's very hard to compare with SXRD's because lighting conditions (brighter) and material (1080i concert video loop and 1080i nature video loop) were so different. The material did not permit you to really judge the blacks. Aesthetically, JVC's looked fine to me (all black with speakers at the bottom) which their sales rep made a point about in a not too subtle dig at "others" whose 60" tvs are really 66" in width. One thing I didn't like was their blue power on light right underneath the screen, which the rep agreed was a little distracting and didn't know if you could turn off. He suggested putting black masking tape over it. :rolleyes:

Again, not sure exactly what others are seeing and calling SSE, but for me it was looking at the picture in a dimly lit setting and for bright scenes particularly, seeing the surface of the screen illuminated (not pixelization or noise) and being distracted because there was something static there competing with the image. The best analogy I can come up with is this. Imagine looking into a fish tank or out of a window and the glass not being completely clean. As you get relatively close, if you're in an environment where it's darker than the light inside the fish tank or outside, you can see the water marks. As you step back or if the room you're in is well lit, you can't see the water marks. I think at 12.5' you'll be fine.

By the way, none of the big name 1080 DLPs I saw (Toshiba, Sharp, Samsung) in my opinion compared favorably to the SXRDs or the HD-ILAs. Although again it was hard to compare given different source materials and lighting conditions. Actually the best 1080 DLP picture to my eyes was the 65" HP (which I couldn't believe), although the aesthetics of the set are definitely unique and may be an acquired taste.

Looks like JVC is up to their old tricks again feeding "cooked" feeds to
the set to disquise their weakness. I fell for it myself when I thought the set
had the best PQ of any 720p display at the local Good Guys. So I ordered
it on Amazon.com and man was I pissed when I popped in a DVD and the
dark content looked like smeared mud on my screen...

You would think if they improved black levels they would be highlighting them
with appropriate content.

But it looks like the SXRDs are delivering :-)

Looks like JVC is up to their old tricks again feeding "cooked" feeds to
the set to disquise their weakness. I fell for it myself when I thought the set
had the best PQ of any 720p display at the local Good Guys. So I ordered
it on Amazon.com and man was I pissed when I popped in a DVD and the
dark content looked like smeared mud on my screen...

But it looks like the SXRDs are delivering :-)

Wouldn't be knockin' something that's been getting nothing but raves since January, dude. At least wait and see if it's a POS. How bad must the Samsung be? Everything else at the Cedia seems to look better to the people who eyeballed this stuff. Funny for a guy to be knockin' one of the two best sets so far when he owns the last place set! Check yourself, dude. They may all be just more POS, but we already know the one you have is. Been there. Done that :rolleyes:

Wouldn't be knockin' something that's been getting nothing but raves since January, dude. At least wait and see if it's a POS. How bad must the Samsung be? Everything else at the Cedia seems to look better to the people who eyeballed this stuff. Funny for a guy to be knockin' one of the two best sets so far when he owns the last place set! Check yourself, dude. They may all be just more POS, but we already know the one you have is. Been there. Done that :rolleyes:

JVCs look great with cooked content - never disputed that - bought one myself
based on that - still no reports on their BL or CR.

I bet they are a flop again :-)

JVCs look great with cooked content - never disputed that - bought one myself
based on that - still no reports on their BL or CR.

I bet they are a flop again :-)

You might be right on. Who knows? haven't seen them either. Maybe the Sony is a POS too. All i'm saying is you can't know until you see it. Samsung 1080P got all sorts of hype before it was on the market and turned out to be just hype. some dudes here still defend it after we all can see it's garbage. There's a difference 'tween sumtin' ya tink myte be a POS an' sumtin' that's a proven POS, dude :cool:

BTW, I was able to snap some dig. pics but unfortunately I'm still downtown, now working my radio shift. I'll try to post some of them early this evening before I head out to watch the Colts/Ravens game in HD on a friend's new HDTV (Don't know what he got, but anxious to see what it is!).


thanks for that steve! can't wait to see the pictures!

Steve is the MAN!! Can't wait to see the picts.

Pictures are all we have until September 30th (#5 on Critchfield KDS-R60XBR1 backorder list)

-Dave

JVC doesn't advertise a CR level and doesn't have an iris on its new sets which make me nervous. It doesn't address the biggest issue it had with there current sets. The biggest complaint PQ wise are the black levels and detail present in dark scenes. There are threads for filter MODS, etc. to combat these issues. Recently at PC Richards I could see what Tony was talking about. There was a newscaster with a black jacket which turned into a black pullover while on a set nearby I could see the the definition in the jacket. JVC has also been plagued with QC issues. Bulbs going too soon, things on the inside of the screen, Swatches of color on the screen, bad light engines, etc. If they want my money I would want to see a 2 year warranty on these new sets. I'm not going to gamble that there sets are still buggy. Sometimes you need to wait weeks for a repair person to come and then it could be another few weeks to get parts. I'm not interested. We won't know if they have clean up their act for another 6 months.

The Mitsubishi and Samsung 1080P DLP out now look awful. That's why Sony kicked their ass with the 3LCD. My grandmother had a better TV at a tenth the price, dude! About time somebody came out with a real 1080P set with no spinning color wheels and a real, full 1080P chip. Can't wait to see these SXRD and JVC sets. Hope they ain't just Show Hype.DUDE every set at every show is Show Hype. :rolleyes:

JVC doesn't advertise a CR level and doesn't have an iris on its new sets which make me nervous. It doesn't address the biggest issue it had with there current sets. The biggest complaint PQ wise are the black levels and detail present in dark scenes. There are threads for filter MODS, etc. to combat these issues. Recently at PC Richards I could see what Tony was talking about. There was a newscaster with a black jacket which turned into a black pullover while on a set nearby I could see the the definition in the jacket. JVC has also been plagued with QC issues. Bulbs going too soon, things on the inside of the screen, Swatches of color on the screen, bad light engines, etc. If they want my money I would want to see a 2 year warranty on these new sets. I'm not going to gamble that there sets are still buggy. Sometimes you need to wait weeks for a repair person to come and then it could be another few weeks to get parts. I'm not interested. We won't know if they have clean up their act for another 6 months.I thought I read it does have a fixed iris.

My mistake: Also new in JVC’s 1080p televisions is a new 3 Step Optical Iris system that improves black levels and gradation in dark scenes, a Digital Noise Suppressor that detects and eliminates “block noise”, a Mosquito Noise Suppressor that eliminates noise without degrading the image, and a 3D Y/C comb filter with DTV Cross Color Eliminator that uses an advanced 10-bit 3D Y/C separation process to eliminate cross color and dot interference that is imbedded in older source material.

when will there be a 70" SXRD? I have a 65" CRT now and I can't go DOWN in size, only up :) No the Qualia is not an option. Is JVC my only hope?

when will there be a 70" SXRD? I have a 65" CRT now and I can't go DOWN in size, only up :) No the Qualia is not an option. Is JVC my only hope?Looks like JVC is it...unless a DLP will do!

yankeeman: I predict the speakers go to the bottom and that SOny comes out with a 65 or 67" set.

With so many complaints over the speakers, i am sure you are right about the bottom speakers.

But do you really think they will go to 65" or 67" rather than just hit the 70" mark? Its kind of like a mental thing, that 70" size is like a magic figure, and would people pay bucks to go from 60" to a larger size under 70", or are you saying that there will be no 60"?

Anyway, i cant wait. As i have said, its taken me 2 years to talk my wife into agreeing to get a big set (i still have my 36" tube), and i have to buy now, and its gotta be a set to last a long time, so the current 60" SXRD with ears it is, and whatever Sony or anyone else puts out in the next 7-8 years wont affect me!

My mistake: Also new in JVC’s 1080p televisions is a new 3 Step Optical Iris system that improves black levels and gradation in dark scenes, a Digital Noise Suppressor that detects and eliminates “block noise”, a Mosquito Noise Suppressor that eliminates noise without degrading the image, and a 3D Y/C comb filter with DTV Cross Color Eliminator that uses an advanced 10-bit 3D Y/C separation process to eliminate cross color and dot interference that is imbedded in older source material.

The JVC specs are filled with some very impressive electronics...

The JVC specs are filled with some very impressive electronics...

Indeed. Pictures, pictures, please....

Based on this forum, I think all TV manufacturers would be best suited following the example of the home computer market, allow consumers to build their own sets :D

I know huh! Panasonic kinda has that idea with the non-consumer plasmas (at least you can swap cards) but yeah, that would be a hoot! Select your screen, select your electronics.....I'd be all over it :D

When will there be a 70" SXRD? I have a 65" CRT now and I can't go DOWN in size, only up :)Can you control the amount of ambient light in the room? If so, the new SXRD FP may be just what you're looking for.

when will there be a 70" SXRD? I have a 65" CRT now and I can't go DOWN in size, only up :) No the Qualia is not an option. Is JVC my only hope?

There will be no 70 in. SXRD in this seasons line up - you will have to wait
until next summer for next season's SXRD line up which will definitely
have a 70 in. version and 1080p input.

I would check out JVC's BL and CR with some of your favourite DVDs before
purchasing - it looks like they are up to their same old "cooked" feed tricks
again...

Tony you must have really hated that set. Do you think you had a bad light engine or was the PQ the same in the stores once you knew what to look for?

Tony you must have really hated that set. Do you think you had a bad light engine or was the PQ the same in the stores once you knew what to look for?

PQ is the same on all 720p D-ILA sets - I have checked them in various stores
myself and all professional reviewers comment on the poor BL and CR of the
JVC D-ILA RPs. The fact that JVC is not showcasing the BL and CR of the
new 1080p sets certainly sends a red flag.

Check out the new $40,000 Faroudja DILA1080p FP review in the new 100th
issue of Widescreen Review where they state the measured ANSI CR
was less than one tenth that of 720p DLP.

A large number of people have preferred 720p DLP to even the Qualia
04/06 due to the BL and CR advantage of DLP.

It looks like Sony has been able to take that advantage away with
the new Sony SXRD RPs and Ruby FP.

A large number of people have preferred 720p DLP to even the Qualia
04/06 due to the BL and CR advantage of DLP.


A much, much larger number of people would say they should lighten up on the acid :rolleyes:

Although some of the HD2+ sets weren't bad. Certainly better than any of the current crop of artifact-inducing, wobulated-chip sets that have been put out by Samsung and Mitsubishi. There have been reports from CEDIA that the 1080P DLP's by Toshiba and HP are a couple of notches above the Samsungs and Mitsubishis - this remains to be seen when they hit the street....

By the way, none of the big name 1080 DLPs I saw (Toshiba, Sharp, Samsung) in my opinion compared favorably to the SXRDs or the HD-ILAs. Although again it was hard to compare given different source materials and lighting conditions. Actually the best 1080 DLP picture to my eyes was the 65" HP (which I couldn't believe), although the aesthetics of the set are definitely unique and may be an acquired taste.

Can you be more specific about why you think none of the 1080p's compare favorably with the SXRDs? What is it about them? Not having seen an SXRD yet, I have compared the 1080p DLPs to the 720p's, and it is evident to my eyes that the contrast is much better with the 1080s, and I think they produce a gorgeous picture. I don't have any HD set yet but was getting ready to finally pull the trigger on a 1080p. Some of you may cringe, but I think the Sammy set to movie mode looks fabulous. I may however wait to see the SXRDs given these very initial reports.

Based on Sony's product introduction history, does anyone have a guess as to what the street prices of the 50" SXRD may be like? $4k is a little too steep for me. I could swallow something closer to $3k.

Any thoughts and opinions would be appreciated.

Pics taken today. Very difficult to get good pics with so many people constantly in the way at the booth, the darkness of this booth and the low resolution needed here in order to download them. Anyway, he's a quick glance.

Steve

The pics are MUCH appreciated. :D

No doubt, one cannot tell much about actual picture quality from such pics--especially not until one gets one into a home or a lab for actual calibration in a user setting--but it's great to finally "see" one anyway. That being said, the picture does look exceptionally smooth...

Good on you, mate.

Based on Sony's product introduction history, does anyone have a guess as to what the street prices of the 50" SXRD may be like? $4k is a little too steep for me. I could swallow something closer to $3k.

Any thoughts and opinions would be appreciated.

Sonys tend to sell at MSRP or 5-10% off at best. Looks like they made Sears up thier price on the 50" from 3799 up to 3999.
If that is to steep, check out the JVC 1080p LCoS sets. Initial reports from my contacts at CEDIA are that they are as good if not better, than the 50 and 60" Sony LCoS. A 56" should street around $3500 plus you get 6" more screen and speakers on the bottom. If cost is the major issue, the LG makes the cheapest LCoS set that will be available this year. Their PQ is a slight step below the JVC and Sony but they should retail at $3600 for the 62" and early 2006 the 56" for around $3K.

when will there be a 70" SXRD? I have a 65" CRT now and I can't go DOWN in size, only up :) No the Qualia is not an option.

Amen to that. Plus even the WAF comes into play. Ask her if she would mind 5" smaller!

Sonys tend to sell at MSRP or 5-10% off at best. Looks like they made Sears up thier price on the 50" from 3799 up to 3999.
If that is to steep, check out the JVC 1080p LCoS sets. Initial reports from my contacts at CEDIA are that they are as good if not better, than the 50 and 60" Sony LCoS. A 56" should street around $3500 plus you get 6" more screen and speakers on the bottom. If cost is the major issue, the LG makes the cheapest LCoS set that will be available this year. Their PQ is a slight step below the JVC and Sony but they should retail at $3600 for the 62" and early 2006 the 56" for around $3K.How good are your contacts? Hopefully JVC has their QC issues in check. :)

Hi guys, just wanted to ask a few questions here. I have the 60' on pre-order and am very happy with what I hear. I actually like the dumbo ears. My question is that I was wondering if it will upscale the image from component. The 2 DVD players I'm looking at both offer Component. NO HDMI. The units i'm looking at are the new Platinum DVD Dream System, and the other is Sony ES 400 Disc DVD Changer. The changer states that it has 12-bit video D/A converter and the Dream System has 10-bit. The changer has 24-bit audio D/A converter and the Dream System has 1-bit. I was also thinking about getting an upscaling DVD player but the TV has a built in upscaler so that kinda defeats the purpose. I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction. Also I have read every post in this thread and just wanted to state my opinion. I think that there will never be a TV out there where everyone will like and not have anything negative to state. Therefor instead of complaining you should embrace what new technology has to offer. For those who think that if they wait they'll get a better product are true, but if you think like that then you'll never buy, you'll always be waiting for something better. Enjoy what you have, you never know when your numbers up.

Pics taken today. Very difficult to get good pics with so many people constantly in the way at the booth, the darkness of this booth and the low resolution needed here in order to download them. Anyway, he's a quick glance.

Steve


In the middle picture, using photoshop, the black stripe located to the right of the image measures 10,10,10, whereas the black frame around the TV measures 5,5,5. That's pretty close. If we can assume the black frame at the point the black stripe intersects with the top received about as much light as the screen, then the blacks are pretty deep. Usually, absolute black measures 0,0,0 (red, blue, green), but you have to have compensate for ambient light, etc.

By the way, its better to not use flash when making screen shots. However, it did give us a good example of how the screen handles glare. I'm sure that's what you were after. :)

Hi guys, just wanted to ask a few questions here. I have the 60' on pre-order and am very happy with what I hear. I actually like the dumbo ears. My question is that I was wondering if it will upscale the image from component. The 2 DVD players I'm looking at both offer Component. NO HDMI. The units i'm looking at are the new Platinum DVD Dream System, and the other is Sony ES 400 Disc DVD Changer. The changer states that it has 12-bit video D/A converter and the Dream System has 10-bit. The changer has 24-bit audio D/A converter and the Dream System has 1-bit. I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction. Also I have read every post in this thread and just wanted to state my opinion. I think that there will never be a TV out there where everyone will like and not have anything negative to state. Therefor instead of complaining you should embrace what new technology has to offer. For those who think that if they wait they'll get a better product are true, but if you think like that then you'll never buy, you'll always be waiting for something better. Enjoy what you have, you never know when your numbers up.


MacLord,

Those of us who like the XBR's Side speakers refer to them as "Bird of Prey" wings. :cool:

THANK YOU GOLDRICH!!!

Your the hero of the month in this forum... Pictures, blessed PICTURES!!

MacLord,

Those of us who like the XBR's Side speakers refer to them as "Bird of Prey" wings. :cool:

I can't stand them. Like most of us in here, we never use a TV's speakers anyway.

However, i am very aware that well over 95% of TV viewers DO use solely the speakers that come with the set. I wonder why at this point, not even one smart manufacturer has caught on to the idea of "modular" speakers: removable speakers that could be attached to the sides of a set for maximum seperation for those who use only the TV speakers, attach to the bottom for those who want them there for esthetic or space requirements or want to use them as a "center speaker", or just tossed in a closet or garage for those who don't want them at all. Doesn't seem like it would be much of an expense to have speaker ports and clasps on the side and bottom of TV's and would certainly be made up by increased sales to consumers who would only previously buy the "style" that they favored?

[QUOTE=hobbes382]Can you be more specific about why you think none of the 1080pas compare favorably with the SXRDs? What is it about them?

Before answering your questions, here's a quick list of what's important to me based on my viewing habits -- 60% movies on DVD, 10% sports and 30% other tv (25% of tv in high def). No gaming. I care most about deep blacks, strong contrast, life-like color reproductions with real pop. Sensitive to artifacts and pixelization. Currently own 720 DLP front projector and CRT. In summary, the SXRDs looked best across these key characteristics and HD-ILAs second best to my eyes. As I said, I was distracted by the matte screen, but otherwise thought the pictures were good, though I must say nowhere as good as the new 1080 SXRD projector from Sony (which according to the rep was not calibrated). I think Sony was the only one (although my memory is starting to fade) among major rear projection manufacturers showing movie clips (one of which was for Rent, which is very dark), as well as a Voom!! HD sports loop.

All the DLPs were showing either local cable signals or sports/nature 1080i. The Comcast HD stuff looked pretty bad (lots of artifacts, pixelization, image very unstable) particularly on the Sharps and Toshibas, while the cable SD stuff was unwatchable. Although to be fair, I would think the Comcast signal was split multiple times, they were willing to show what people wanted to see on tv and the 1080i loops looked better. None of the sets except maybe the HP looked film-like to me or had particularly good contrast. I know DLPs generally have great blacks, but nothing they were showing took advantage of that characteristic.

There's one caveat to my general preference of SXRD and HD-ILA and that is the HD-DVD demonstration in the Toshiba booth. They were showing movie clips (Willy Wonka, Van Helsing, etc.) in complete darkness and they looked fantastic. I thought it was a Toshiba DLP projector, but I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't their top of the line 72" 1080 DLP (which by the way has $5300 MSRP). Somebody who was there could probably remember. If it was, I would say the picture was every bit equal to the Blu-Ray feed to the Sony SXRD projectors and the Qualia 006 sets I've seen.

I can't stand them. Like most of us in here, we never use a TV's speakers anyway.

However, i am very aware that well over 95% of TV viewers DO use solely the speakers that come with the set. I wonder why at this point, not even one smart manufacturer has caught on to the idea of "modular" speakers: removable speakers that could be attached to the sides of a set for maximum seperation for those who use only the TV speakers, attach to the bottom for those who want them there for esthetic or space requirements or want to use them as a "center speaker", or just tossed in a closet or garage for those who don't want them at all. Doesn't seem like it would be much of an expense to have speaker ports and clasps on the side and bottom of TV's and would certainly be made up by increased sales to consumers who would only previously buy the "style" that they favored?


I agree totally, I would prefer not to have any speakers at all, I have a 5000.00 speaker system (would have been more if I paid retail) and would like to save the $500.00 or so bucks for not have their crappy speakers.

Put a call out for RPHD monitor (SXRD) and I'm all over it. Having the stand that the new XBR1's are designed to fit, the set will look awesome. For those that want to use another stand, Sony screwed up not having detachable speakers.

For me the 66 1/2 inch wide TV will look great on my 66 1/2 inch stand. :D

I wonder why at this point, not even one smart manufacturer has caught on to the idea of "modular" speakers: removable speakers that could be attached to the sides of a set for maximum seperation for those who use only the TV speakers, attach to the bottom for those who want them there for esthetic or space requirements ...I believe Sharp offers some of its larger flat panel LCD's with your choice of side mounted or bottom mounted speakers. As far as I know, the sets are identical other than the speaker configuration. As for the modular type of setup you are referring to, I seem to recall some of the newer Pioneer plasmas having this feature. The funny thing is that I actually own a Pioneer plasma but I have never taken the speakers out of the box they came in.

Having the stand that the new XBR1's are designed to fit, the set will look awesome. For those that want to use another stand, Sony screwed up not having detachable speakers.It just dawned on me that maybe Sony didn't scew up at all. Some bean counter in the back office probably told them they they will sell more stands if they keep the "dumbo ears". :p

By the way, does the XBR stand has frosted or clear glass shelves? For some reason I thought they were frosted, but they look clear in the pic posted by goldrich.

Can we stop bitchin' about the speakers already? 95% of the buying public want speakers on their TVs and Sony is not about pleasing the other 5%. Most people, even if they had a $5000 speaker system, wouldn't be using it to watch the news etc...

Sonys tend to sell at MSRP or 5-10% off at best.This is completely untrue. Many members of this forum have already pre-ordered their SXRD's anywhere from 10-20% off MSRP. It's just a matter of finding a store that will play ball.

It just dawned on me that maybe Sony didn't scew up at all. Some bean counter in the back office probably told them they they will sell more stands if they keep the "dumbo ears". :p

By the way, does the XBR stand has frosted or clear glass shelves? For some reason I thought they were frosted, but they look clear in the pic posted by goldrich.

Yes the shelves are frosted.

Think about this, at least they didn't have the TV and and Stand as one unit. Sony's big mistake was that they didn't make the Speakers Modular.

I know I'm a minority in this forum in liking the design of the XBR's case, thats why I posted. I like the "Bird of Prey" wings that the XBR's have. I'm not on the Bandwagon about the "Dumbo Ears".

For those in the NY area....PC Richards has the KDSR50XBR1 for $3499.97 and the KDSR60XBR1 for $4499.97. That is a $500 saving of the MSRP! Here is the link for the 50" and 60" model for preordering.

http://www.pcrichard.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L1A98433A0092574AF6B349R+PCR+ENG

http://www.pcrichard.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L1A98443B0B72B794E1E3E9R+PCR+ENG

I would have been much happier with side speakers if there wasn't dead space between the case and the speaker. 66" wide is huge.

Yes the shelves are frosted.Bummer. :(

For those in the NY area....PC Richards has the KDSR50XBR1 for $3499.97 and the KDSR60XBR1 for $4499.97. That is a $500 saving of the MSRP! Here is the link for the 50" and 60" model for preordering.

http://www.pcrichard.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L1A98433A0092574AF6B349R+PCR+ENG

http://www.pcrichard.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L1A98443B0B72B794E1E3E9R+PCR+ENG


PC Richard also has the "no-interest if paid in 18 months"
Sony promo going on until year-end.

The Mitsubishi and Samsung 1080P DLP out now look awful. That's why Sony kicked their ass with the 3LCD. My grandmother had a better TV at a tenth the price, dude! About time somebody came out with a real 1080P set with no spinning color wheels and a real, full 1080P chip. Can't wait to see these SXRD and JVC sets. Hope they ain't just Show Hype.

Way to go ! I am totally with you

Quote:
As to your comment about HTPC people...I'm pretty pissed to see that this TV doesn't support any 16:9 resolutions in the first place, combine this with the ugly speakers on this thing and I may wait and see what other companies do with their reflective microdisplays.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean by not supporting 16:9 resolutions? If the display is a 16:9 aspect ratio then it supports it, right?

WIll these sets be sold at stores like Best Buy, Circuit City and Sears, or will maybe only the more high end stores get them? We went into Sound Advice (Tweeter sister store) this weekend to look at the Panny plasma's. When I also went to go look at the Sony 50" A10 (cause I just don't know if I want to spend $4000 on a plasma right now) the sales guy started really talking about these 1080P sets. I saw the Mitsi 1080p set and wasn't all that impressed. I guess since they are coming out in a few weeks, it'd be better to wait and see. But he really seemed to think these were the next best thing.

Aaron

Can we stop bitchin' about the speakers already? 95% of the buying public want speakers on their TVs and Sony is not about pleasing the other 5%. Most people, even if they had a $5000 speaker system, wouldn't be using it to watch the news etc...
That may be true, but they did not have to put them on "flying buttresses".

I'm thinkin about one of these 50 inchers.. how much of a price difference is there between the A10 50 inch and the new SXRD 50s??

So much for Sears. They just cancelled my order for the 50" SXRD because it is suddenly "unavailable". What is up with this? This is the first time I've tried to do business with Sears and it will be the last time.

K, you're the second in 4 hours to post something like this. Has Sears been dropped off the list of authorized dealers, or what ?

Interesting thought.

A few pages back we heard from some posters of which had pre-ordered SXRD’s that have been recently cancelled by Sears.

What are the chances Sony has made a decision not to distribute the SXRD sets to any retailer of which also will sell the JVC D-ILA 1080p Set?

Has Sony ever manipulated retail distribution in this type of way before?

Or are the Sears cancellations due to something totally different?

I'm thinkin about one of these 50 inchers.. how much of a price difference is there between the A10 50 inch and the new SXRD 50s??

$1500.00 difference in list price....$2500.00 vs. $4000.00

Interesting thought.

A few pages back we heard from some posters of which had pre-ordered SXRD’s that have been recently cancelled by Sears.

What are the chances Sony has made a decision not to distribute the SXRD sets to any retailer of which also will sell the JVC D-ILA 1080p Set?

Has Sony ever manipulated retail distribution in this type of way before?

Or are the Sears cancellations due to something totally different?

I would imagine the orders were cancelled because they can't be filled in a reasonable amount of time. Sony is a bit behind on shipping the things. I was told at the CEDIA show there won't be any meaningful shipping until October.

Was at an HH Gregg store here in Indy today. The salesman had an interesting comment. He thinks ALL the rear projection TV's will be dead and gone within 5 years. No more DLP, 3LCD, CRT-RPTV, or SXRD etc. His take is that flat panel prices will fall so fast, that they will spell the total demise of rear projection TV's. He may have a good point. What do you guys think?

$1500.00 difference in list price....$2500.00 vs. $4000.00

Now the $1500 dollar question.. is there a $1500 dollar noticeable difference in picture quality/blacks/inputs? :D

Was at an HH Gregg store here in Indy today. The salesman had an interesting comment. He thinks ALL the rear projection TV's will be dead and gone within 5 years. No more DLP, 3LCD, CRT-RPTV, or SXRD etc. His take is that flat panel prices will fall so fast, that they will spell the total demise of rear projection TV's. He may have a good point. What do you guys think?

I would agree with him.

If you think about what we were looking at in Sept of 2000 I would bet that technology like SED and FED become pretty standard in flat panel by Sept 2010.

Now the $1500 dollar question.. is there a $1500 dollar noticeable difference in picture quality/blacks/inputs? :D

Only YOU can answer that one. For me, the A-10 wins because the wider design of the SXRD won't fit my cabinet. If the SXRD was in the A-10 cabinet, I would probably pay the extra $$. I am pickier than most people though. Best thing is for your own eyes to make the call. The SXRD certainly has the better PQ, and I have seen it in person. BUT the A-10 is by no means a slouch either.

Was at an HH Gregg store here in Indy today. The salesman had an interesting comment. He thinks ALL the rear projection TV's will be dead and gone within 5 years. No more DLP, 3LCD, CRT-RPTV, or SXRD etc. His take is that flat panel prices will fall so fast, that they will spell the total demise of rear projection TV's. He may have a good point. What do you guys think?Rear projection TV's are just an interim technology. They currently fill an important niche by providing us with high quality, large screens at a reasonable price. Once flat panel technologies mature, rear projection is as good as dead. It's not a case of "if" but "when". It may be plasma, LCD, OLED, SED or some technology that doesn't even exist yet, but flat panels are definitely the way of the future.

I would agree with him.

If you think about what we were looking at in Sept of 2000 I would bet that technology like SED and FED become pretty standard in flat panel by Sept 2010.

If that's the case, what's the real point to investing in one of the more expensive sets?

I do feel kinda scarred as my 3 yr old Toshiba 34 inch 16x9 tube that this will replace DOES NOT do HDMI though it does have a DVI.. and we all know how goes with HD DVD/Blu-ray :rolleyes:

If that's the case, what's the real point to investing in one of the more expensive sets?

I do feel kinda scarred as my 3 yr old Toshiba 34 inch 16x9 tube that this will replace DOES NOT do HDMI though it does have a DVI.. and we all know how goes with HD DVD/Blu-ray :rolleyes:

Let's face it...buying an expensive TV today is about like buying a computer....the things will always be outdated somewhat in a year or two. Things are changing so fast. From the early 1970's to the mid 1990's TV's evolved rather slowly. Since then there has been a flurry of new technologies in rapid fire succession. I can imagine the pace of change will continue for another decade until super high quality, and affordable flat panels in a wide range of sizes rule the market.

If that's the case, what's the real point to investing in one of the more expensive sets?

I do feel kinda scarred as my 3 yr old Toshiba 34 inch 16x9 tube that this will replace DOES NOT do HDMI though it does have a DVI.. and we all know how goes with HD DVD/Blu-ray :rolleyes:

2010 is almost five years away...

If that's the case, what's the real point to investing in one of the more expensive sets? Video displays are among the most quickly advancing technologies. Something better and, most likely, cheaper will always be right around the corner. If you're in the market for a new TV, you sometimes don't have a choice but to dive in and swim! :)

Video displays are among the most quickly advancing technologies. Something better and, most likely, cheaper will always be right around the corner. If you're in the market for a new TV, you sometimes don't have a choice but to dive in and swim! :)

I agree...pick the lowest priced display that pleases your eye, and wallet, and ENJOY!

I agree...pick the lowest priced display that pleases your eye, and wallet, and ENJOY!

I think This confirms I will get the A10.. as it's available now and realistically speaking the difference in price isn't worth it.. coming from someone who bought a 2000 dollar 34 inch HD CRT Toshiba 3 yrs ago that is already outdated :(

I can imagine the pace of change will continue for another decade until super high quality, and affordable flat panels in a wide range of sizes rule the market.And by that time, holographic displays will be right around the corner. ;)

I think This confirms I will get the A10.. as it's available now and realistically speaking the difference in price isn't worth it.. coming from someone who bought a 2000 dollar 34 inch HD CRT Toshiba 3 yrs ago that is already outdated :(

I would tend to agree with your decision, unless (A) you are SUPER picky about PQ on your TV, or (B) you have money to burn. I would bet the 50 inch SXRD will be available (when on sale at least) for $2500.00 or less in a year or two

And by that time, holographic displays will be right around the corner. ;)

And we will still be hanging in these forums looking for the next great thing in TV :)

Was at an HH Gregg store here in Indy today. The salesman had an interesting comment. He thinks ALL the rear projection TV's will be dead and gone within 5 years. No more DLP, 3LCD, CRT-RPTV, or SXRD etc. His take is that flat panel prices will fall so fast, that they will spell the total demise of rear projection TV's. He may have a good point. What do you guys think?

He's being a lttle over-dramatic, but he's not far off. Single-chip DLP is certainly a Dodo-bird type of dead-end technology. Hard to see 3LCD dying too quickly. Last
i saw they were closing on accounting for a staggering 2 out of every 5 microdisplays being sold and still growing market share. Definitely the best bang-for-the-buck out there on the HDTV scene. I can easily see 50" 3LCD's going for well under $1,000 in much sooner than 5 years. This technology is going to be here for a while and probably continue to dominate the low end of the HDTV spectrum. As far as CRT-RPTV, that dog stopped hunting a while ago. Stick a fork in it. It's dead now - you don't have to wait 5 years. Too big, too heavy, too bulky, and too dull except for a controlled-lighting situation. People want to show off their HDTV's to friends and neighbors in a well lit living room or den, not show them some behemoth in a darkened basement. SXRD and LCoS - Based RPTV's will just start gaining market share this year and next with the Sony, JVC, and LG models plus whoever else enters the fray next year. This technology has lots of room to grow and improve on. LCoS will be here for a while. It appears as though LCoS already has the two best sets coming to market for PQ under 6K with the Sony and JVC models displayed at CEDIA. It's only going to get better and cheaper, so it's hard to believe that flat-panels will KO LCoS in 5 years. LCoS will have the better PQ and be dropping in price as well as the flat-panels. I think there will be a niche for Flat Panels, LCoS, and 3LCD for the next five years. And maybe even 3-chip DLP if TI can develop it at a cost-effective price point. If you go out 10 years, then it's anyone's guess. SED? Who knows? All these technologies may be as dead as dodos. We may all be watching projected three-dimensional holograms and look back wondering how we ever put up with all these primitive, unwatchable, display technologies :D

He's being a lttle over-dramatic, but he's not far off. Single-chip DLP is certainly a Dodo-bird type of dead-end technology. Hard to see 3LCD dying too quickly. Last
i saw they were closing on accounting for a staggering 2 out of every 5 microdisplays being sold and still growing market share. Definitely the best bang-for-the-buck out there on the HDTV scene. I can easily see 50" 3LCD's going for well under $1,000 in much sooner than 5 years. This technology is going to be here for a while and probably continue to dominate the low end of the HDTV spectrum. As far as CRT-RPTV, that dog stop hunting a while ago. Stick a fork in it. It's dead now - you don't have to wait 5 years. Too big, too heavy, too bulky, and too dull except for a controlled-lighting situation. People want to show off their HDTV's to friends and neighbors in a well lit living room or den, not show them some behemoth in a darkened basement. SXRD and LCoS - Based RPTV's will just start gaining market share this year and next with the Sony, JVC, and LG models plus whoever else enters the fray next year. This technology has lots of room to grow and improve on. LCoS will be here for a while. It appears as though LCoS already has the two best sets coming to market for PQ under 6K with the Sony and JVC models displayed at CEDIA. It's only going to get better and cheaper, so it's hard to believe that flat-panels will KO LCoS in 5 years. LCoS will have the better PQ and be dropping in price as well as the flat-panels. I think there will be a niche for Flat Panels, LCoS, and 3LCD for the next five years. And maybe even 3-chip DLP if TI can develop it at a cost-effective price point. If you go out 10 years, then it's anyone's guess. SED? Who knows? All these technologies may be as dead as dodos. We may all be watching projected three-dimensional holograms and look back wondering how we ever put up with all these primitive, unwatchable, display technologies :D

Excellent points there ! I agree the 5 year timeline for death seems a bit premature..BUT in the long run he could be right. IF flat panels get really affordable, AND can match the PQ of these other technologies, it's gotta be goodbye RPTV.

Excellent points there ! I agree the 5 year timeline for death seems a bit premature..BUT in the long run he could be right. IF flat panels get really affordable, AND can match the PQ of these other technologies, it's gotta be goodbye RPTV.

Sure - if and when Flat Panels reach the point where they can match Lcos or SED or whatever the dominant RP technology is in PQ & price - the ballgame is over...

Sure - if and when Flat Panels reach the point where they can match Lcos or SED or whatever the dominant RP technology is in PQ & price - the ballgame is over...

SED is a flat panel technology and I wouldn't give RPs much longer than
five years if that.

Flat panels for small to mid size screens and FPs for larger screens will
dominate...

Also fyi, TI just introduced a new 1080p chip with 12,000:1 CR with no dynamic
iris required. Alledgedly those who see rainbows could not see any on
the demo at CEDIA...

I believe for anything smaller than 32 in the near future, LCD will be the technology of choice... and if you ask me.. Plasma will probably die out soon too due to the fact you still need glass for the display..and glass = HEAVY :D

I believe for anything smaller than 32 in the near future, LCD will be the technology of choice... and if you ask me.. Plasma will probably die out soon too due to the fact you still need glass for the display..and glass = HEAVY :D

Not so sure about the plasma death timeline. They really aren't THAT heavy...a 50 incher weighs in around 100 pounds or less (less than most 27 inch coventional TV's), and only a tad more than a micro-display of the same size.

Well, we've had a Sony 50A10 in house for three days now and my wife has decreed ;) that we should keep it. She prefers its cabinet style (and cost) over the 50" SXRD with the Dumbo/Rumbold/Bird of Prey speakers. I have to admit that I'm suitably impressed by the 50A10 and am actually enjoying it better than the Samsing 5078 that we had for a little over a week. My wife is already spending the almost $2K that we would save by buying the 50A10 over the 50" SXRD or the Samsung 5078 on new couches. A 720p set is probably just fine for us for the time being given our current 50" screen size limit and 12' viewing distance. My cunning plan (cf: BlackAdder) will be to get a 60" 1080p set in a year or so when they've matured further and then move the A10 to another room.

How are the black levels and shadow detail compared to the Sammy? I think you made a good overall choice there, and I most likely will buy the A-10 soon as a stepping stone to the SXRD's future, more affordable 'wingless' model.

Well, we've had a Sony 50A10 in house for three days now and my wife has decreed ;) that we should keep it. She prefers its cabinet style (and cost) over the 50" SXRD with the Dumbo/Rumbold/Bird of Prey speakers. I have to admit that I'm suitably impressed by the 50A10 and am actually enjoying it better than the Samsing 5078 that we had for a little over a week. My wife is already spending the almost $2K that we would save by buying the 50A10 over the 50" SXRD or the Samsung 5078 on new couches. A 720p set is probably just fine for us for the time being given our current 50" screen size limit and 12' viewing distance. My cunning plan (cf: BlackAdder) will be to get a 60" 1080p set in a year or so when they've matured further and then move the A10 to another room.


I have to admit that i used to snobbishly turn up my nose at LCD RPTV's in the past. No longer. The improvements in Black Levels, CR, detail visualization and separation, color vibrancy, much-improved blockiness, SDE and handling of fast motion in the past year has won me over. Every time i spend some time with an A10 i like it more and more. They really do grow on you. I have to sheepishly admit i was dead wrong in denigrating them in the past..

Well, we've had a Sony 50A10 in house for three days now and my wife has decreed ;) that we should keep it. She prefers its cabinet style (and cost) over the 50" SXRD with the Dumbo/Rumbold/Bird of Prey speakers. I have to admit that I'm suitably impressed by the 50A10 and am actually enjoying it better than the Samsing 5078 that we had for a little over a week. My wife is already spending the almost $2K that we would save by buying the 50A10 over the 50" SXRD or the Samsung 5078 on new couches. A 720p set is probably just fine for us for the time being given our current 50" screen size limit and 12' viewing distance. My cunning plan (cf: BlackAdder) will be to get a 60" 1080p set in a year or so when they've matured further and then move the A10 to another room.

For a 50" set at a viewing distance of 12 ft, I think you are correct that 720p is the sensible choice. I really wouldn't be interested in 1080p except for screens > 60", or perhaps not even until >70", and at not too great a distance; but that is just my personal pref, for there are obviously people that want them in smaller screens. Hope you enjoy the A10!

For a 50" set at a viewing distance of 12 ft, I think you are correct that 720p is the sensible choice. I really wouldn't be interested in 1080p except for screens > 60", or perhaps not even until >70", and at not too great a distance; but that is just my personal pref, for there are obviously people that want them in smaller screens. Hope you enjoy the A10!

After seeing the TV's at Cedia I totally agree. The 1080P advantage is significant in the 60 inch size..it kicked the A-20's butt. But on the 50 inch, the advantage, while still there, was much less pronounced. I predict that the large majority of SXRD sales will be in the 60 inch screen size for that reason. The buyers of the 50 inch will gravitate to the A-10 when they see the PQ vs. cost equation.

If that's the case, what's the real point to investing in one of the more expensive sets?

I do feel kinda scarred as my 3 yr old Toshiba 34 inch 16x9 tube that this will replace DOES NOT do HDMI though it does have a DVI.. and we all know how goes with HD DVD/Blu-ray :rolleyes:

That's the Magic question, when to take the plunge on something with the expectation that what you are getting will satisfy you for at least x amount of time… with x as the amount of time before you expect purchasing a new TV.

You purchased your Toshiba 16:9 with DVI input at a time when there were a lot of things still being decided as far as formats, protocols, and content protection. 3 Years is a long time in HDTV time ;)

A lot of people (me included) have been waiting for 1080p resolution displays to take the plunge into HDTV. I myself have been living with a 24” Toshiba CRT Since March, although I am very excited at the idea of how good the new SXRD and D-ILA 1080p sets sound on the forums, I have some similar concerns that a few other posters do that the first <$5k sets may still be lacking what I feel will allow me to be happy with my purchase for at least 3 to 4 years. It’s very frustrating to try to rationalize why manufacturers do some of the things they do (Or Don’t!). I want a 60” Wide Screen to come home to very badly BUT I also feel pretty strongly that a 1080p set should allow for it’s native resolution to be input. As you can read there are many arguments from people who don’t share that particular concern. I am looking to purchase a set that will hold me over for 3 to 5 Years at which time I believe technologies like SED and FED will be at or below the price point that the current SXRD & D-ILAs will be selling for this year. It appears that 1080p Inputs may not be available until after this Christmas, Maybe Spring. I have waited this long, what’s another 4 to 6 Months?

I think I have every right to "bitch about the speakers"! I will be paying about CA$5700 for the 50" SXRD. I only have 60" between my Martin Logan speakers ... and they like space around them for the best sound. The 50" TV is 57" wide ... I am guessing about 8" of that is taken up by the useless speakers. They may be a deal breaker for me. My original KV25XBR had detactable speakers ... and that TV was made for the general public! There is no bloody reason that Sony could not have done the same with these SXRD's!

Pics taken today. Very difficult to get good pics with so many people constantly in the way at the booth, the darkness of this booth and the low resolution needed here in order to download them. Anyway, he's a quick glance.

Steve

thanks very much for the pictures! the screen looks a little bit less "shiny" then the one on the qualia but on the other side is seems to have much less reflections.

Based on this forum, I think all TV manufacturers would be best suited following the example of the home computer market, allow consumers to build their own sets :D

I actually think that's a good idea, or at least, do what auto manufacturers do and offer options. 1080p HDMI option, $500. Replace the diffusion screen with a lenticular reflective screen, $400. Removable speakers, $200.

You might be right on. Who knows? haven't seen them either. Maybe the Sony is a POS too. All i'm saying is you can't know until you see it. Samsung 1080P got all sorts of hype before it was on the market and turned out to be just hype. some dudes here still defend it after we all can see it's garbage. There's a difference 'tween sumtin' ya tink myte be a POS an' sumtin' that's a proven POS, dude :cool:

Am I the only person who has trouble taking seriously, someone who overuses the word 'dude' in every post? I feel like I'm getting HDTV tips from Spicoli.

Am I the only person who has trouble taking seriously, someone who overuses the word 'dude' in every post? I feel like I'm getting HDTV tips from Spicoli.

AVS forum should implement Amazon.com's "13 years and older" post
criteria :-)

RPTVs might die, but projection itself never will.

The guts of these TVs and the Ruby are basically the same (exception: Xenon lamp, 1080p input, lens) so economies of scale could transfer over time.

Combine decreasing price with advances in ambient light absorption screens (Sony) and microwave energized plasma lamps that have long life (Luxim) and the fact that it is relatively easy and cheap to increase resolution on the panels, and in 5 years we could all have 120" 4k images on the wall from a box that drops from the ceiling only when you need it. That ought to have a good WAF.

It will be a while before flat panel of any technology can make 120" 4k (or 1080p for that matter) panels at a competitive price. 40" (50"maybe?) and lower they will rule the world.

RPTVs might die, but projection itself never will.

The guts of these TVs and the Ruby are basically the same (exception: Xenon lamp, 1080p input, lens) so economies of scale could transfer over time.

Combine decreasing price with advances in ambient light absorption screens (Sony) and microwave energized plasma lamps that have long life (Luxim) and the fact that it is relatively easy and cheap to increase resolution on the panels, and in 5 years we could all have 120" 4k images on the wall from a box that drops from the ceiling only when you need it. That ought to have a good WAF.

It will be a while before flat panel of any technology can make 120" 4k (or 1080p for that matter) panels at a competitive price. 40" (50"maybe?) and lower they will rule the world.

In five or so years flat panel will rule the 100 in. and below and FP the
100 in. and up screen size.

2k for a 50" A10 is a great price. I've seen this set and it looks to be a winner. My cheap brother in-law is is very wealth and drives a Mercedes but bought an old style RPTV for 1200.00. For another 800.00 he could have had a much better set. He didn't want to spend 400.00 on a TV stand too so he bought the less expensive model with the stand built in.

RPTVs might die, but projection itself never will.

The guts of these TVs and the Ruby are basically the same (exception: Xenon lamp, 1080p input, lens) so economies of scale could transfer over time.

Combine decreasing price with advances in ambient light absorption screens (Sony) and microwave energized plasma lamps that have long life (Luxim) and the fact that it is relatively easy and cheap to increase resolution on the panels, and in 5 years we could all have 120" 4k images on the wall from a box that drops from the ceiling only when you need it. That ought to have a good WAF.

It will be a while before flat panel of any technology can make 120" 4k (or 1080p for that matter) panels at a competitive price. 40" (50"maybe?) and lower they will rule the world.

I think you may have stated the obvious, but it was worth stating :)

In five or so years flat panel will rule the 100 in. and below and FP the
100 in. and up screen size.

Sounds about right to me...although I am not sure of the timeline. I would imagine though that the FP units will be mainly for diehards with large, dark, dedicated theatre rooms. The family rooms, great rooms etc. will have flat panels of 70 inches or smaller in most cases. Most rooms are not huge enough for a larger size than 70, without people getting sick watching it. This is really going to be exciting to watch as things evolve rapidly. I can feel my wallet screaming for mercy already. :)

2k for a 50" A10 is a great price. I've seen this set and it looks to be a winner. My cheap brother in-law is is very wealth and drives a Mercedes but bought an old style RPTV for 1200.00. For another 800.00 he could have had a much better set. He didn't want to spend 400.00 on a TV stand too so he bought the less expensive model with the stand built in.

That is why he is wealthy, and we aren't...he doesn't piss his money away on overpriced home entertainment devices..lol :D

That is why he is wealthy, and we aren't...he doesn't piss his money away on overpriced home entertainment devices..lol :D

Depends on ones priorities. Just how long can you watch a Mercedes before you're bored. Then again, ever try to ride a subwoofer to work?? :D

Black levels on the 5078 were excellent but at the expense of shadow detail IMHO (others like tony d. will disagree ;-). I think the A10 strikes a good balance between black levels (they are good enough for me) and shadow detail (more important to me). Either can be improved using the statis and dynamic iris and the advanced picture settings (which I'm just beginning to explore). I'm not sure if the Black levels would satisfy die-hards that are very particular about them though, you'd have to look for yourself to make that determination. A side benefit is that although I've stated numerous times that I see rainbows on my DLP and they don't bother me too much, its still nice to be able to watch a dark or high-contrast movie or program and not have to worry if I'll see rainbows and to what extent.

Glad to hear the A-10 is good enough to please you. I think it will do it for me too for the moment. Rainbows on DLP leave them off my shopping list. I had a Sammy for a couple weeks, and it was driving me nuts. And I immediately saw rainbows on the new Toshiba 1080P's at CEDIA also. Otherwise they looked to have a great pic though....oh well.

Agreed. It's about priorities. Mine is family, school (applying to a Physical Therapy program), and a house (one month from building completion date :D). I do have a car that gets me around. Nothing spectacular by any means but it gets me where I want to go (and besides it was F R E E). You can't beat free. Then again, I don't really care too much about cars right now.

Hopefully I can land this set or the JVC by the end of the year and that should keep me more than satisfied in the HT department for the next few years until SEDs or something better comes along.

I don't think I can do 70". I don't think my new basement/den will be even big enough to hold that thing. Max size is 60" but that will never get the wife's stamp of approval. We have a 50" RPTV so I might be able to sell her on the 56" JVC at most but nothing past that.

Agreed. It's about priorities. Mine is family, school (applying to a Physical Therapy program), and a house (one month from building completion date :D). I do have a car that gets me around. Nothing spectacular by any means but it gets me where I want to go (and besides it was F R E E). You can't beat free. Then again, I don't really care too much about cars right now.

Hopefully I can land this set or the JVC by the end of the year and that should keep me more than satisfied in the HT department for the next few years until SEDs or something better comes along.

I don't think I can do 70". I don't think my new basement/den will be even big enough to hold that thing. Max size is 60" but that will never get the wife's stamp of approval. We have a 50" RPTV so I might be able to sell her on the 56" JVC at most but nothing past that.

Just tell her that the 60 inch Sony is 56 inches..maybe she won't bother to measure it..lol :D

Am I the only person who has trouble taking seriously, someone who overuses the word 'dude' in every post? I feel like I'm getting HDTV tips from Spicoli.

Now thats funny, I don't care who you are... ROFL :p

Just tell her that the 60 inch Sony is 56 inches..maybe she won't bother to measure it..lol :D

I'm sure when I bring that Monolith home she won't mind ;) Then again, I remember how much flack I got for buying the 50" RPTV 3 years ago. So I've been slowly selling her on making the investment in a new set and she's borderline sold on it. Quite a feat!

If she gives me 50 inches I won't take it past 56". :D You see I have to take things in stride otherwise I may find myself snuggled next to my 56 inches of 1080p goodness in the basement. ;) 1080p doesn't keep you warm at night. :D

OK we all know that the Sony does not have them but do any of the other new 1080P tv's have them?

I am looking for a TV that will last 10 years everyone always talked about 1-3 years but are these tv's still going to be working 5-10 years from now will they still look the same as they do now. Sure there will be better newer more options.

I for one can't be spending $5000 every 2-3 years on a tv thats for sure

1080p doesn't keep you warm at night. :D

Unless it's a JVC (on fire). :D

Sorry, couldn't resist... Crossing my fingers that the 60" SXRD will be all it's cracked up to be and I can finally go back to watching TV instead of cruising AVSforum (yeah, right... :rolleyes: ).

Alan

Unless it's a JVC (on fire). :D

Sorry, couldn't resist... Crossing my fingers that the 60" SXRD will be all it's cracked up to be and I can finally go back to watching TV instead of cruising AVSforum (yeah, right... :rolleyes: ).

Alan

I think shopping, and reading the forums is half the fun of the new TV...(and a LOT cheaper) :)

AlanBuck, gazelle, or others who attended CEDIA:

Did you happen to catch the new Epson RPTV's? They claim 1080p 3LCD in 55" and 65" with a "space saving" cabinent design (audio amp with jacks for external speakers).

Just wondered what they looked like - picture & packaging. Thanks

OK we all know that the Sony does not have them but do any of the other new 1080P tv's have them?

We know for sure that the HP DLP, the LG LCoS, and the Epson LCD will will accept 1080p inputs over HDMI, and I think most of us are assuming none of the others (Sony, JVC, the other DLPs, etc) will accept 1080p on HDMI. However, the Samsung DLP is known to accept 1080p on the VGA port (from an HTPC), and perhaps some of the others as well. I'm still hoping the JVC and maybe even the Sony will do that... Take care,
--Kyle

Unless it's a JVC (on fire). :D

Sorry, couldn't resist... Crossing my fingers that the 60" SXRD will be all it's cracked up to be and I can finally go back to watching TV instead of cruising AVSforum (yeah, right... :rolleyes: ).

Alan

LOL

So will owning a JVC raise my home owners insurance? ;)

I have a finished basement (currently a teenager hangout) that I hope to convert to a media room someday, funds permitting, and would love to have a 70" 1080p set in it. Maybe next year!

Sounds familiar! My two daughters are now in their early 30's, married, etc., and my wife has given me free reign in the former 'teenage den'; it makes a great ht/tv room, big black box speakers, etc. So I will be going up to a 70+" 1080p (if they ever get here and I can decide which!)

I think shopping, and reading the forums is half the fun of the new TV...(and a LOT cheaper) :)

So true. The analysis paralysis inspired by these forums has probably saved me thousands of dollars over the last few years. Of course, it's likely to cost me thousands more if and when it wears off... :p

BTW, thanks to everyone for their feedback on the SXRDs from CEDIA. It's giving me the fortitude to hold off on a purchase decision until I can at least see one of them. The one concern that I've had over the SXRD vs. DLP has been the shadow detail. The only 006 that I've seen (keep in mind this is uncalibrated on a showroom floor) seemed to be lacking a bit in that area vs. the Samsung 61" 1080p. In all other respects it looked fantastic (certainly superior to the Samsung, though it didn't blow it away by any means). With the bump in rated contrast on the new SXRDs I was hopeful that this particular deficit would be eliminated. From the CEDIA reviews it appears that this may be the case.

And so I wait... FWIW, I would prefer that these sets accept 1080p/60 but it's not going to be a deal breaker for me, unless I hear that the internal deinterlacer/scaler is really lousy at upconverting 720p/1080i. Does anyone have any feedback about this issue? I expect something like that would be hard to ascertain in the show environment. Also, it sounds like the current HDMI implementations accept 1080p up to 30fps. If HD-DVD and BR players (and STBs) would handle the 3:2 conversion from 1080i/60 and then output 1080p/24 that would take care of that particular issue for film-based material. The only problem area (until someone starts offering 1080p/60 source material) then would be 1080i video-sourced material which can't be perfectly reconstructed no matter what (although some do it better than others, ie. Faroudja). I realize there's a big assumption about the capabilities of future DVD and STBs in this argument, but it seems to be reasonable based on the history of standard DVD players. Is this reasoning halfway sound?

Alan

LOL

So will owning a JVC raise my home owners insurance? ;)

:D

I'm sure when I bring that Monolith home she won't mind ;) Then again, I remember how much flack I got for buying the 50" RPTV 3 years ago.You should have seen the look on my wife's face when they first delivered my 56" RP Zenith. As soon as the delivery people left, she started weeping uncontrolably. I swear she was ready to divorce me right there and then. It's funny, you can look at the TV all you want in the store, but it doesn't really hit you just how big the sucker is until it's sitting in your living room.

I have the 60" on pre-order, but I'm not sure what to do about a stand. I like the Sony stand (other than the frosted glass shelves), but I don't see how it can possibly accommodate my gigantic center channel speaker. The thing is huge and it must weigh at least 40 pounds. Do you guys have any suggestions?

measure it? :)

I guess I better pick one of these up before I get married, you guys are scaring me :D

gweempose I have the 60" on pre-order, but I'm not sure what to do about a stand.
My original plans were the 6768 Samsung and I bought the *Bello AVS-2663 and have switched to 60"SXRD. I have a Yamaha YSP-1 AVR on that shelf under the TV and it's 48"W and 8" Tall and fits nicely. This Stand shelves are clear glass but costs a few hundred more than the Sony Stand and is 63" W. That leaves an insignificant 1.5" overhang of ears which is no big deal since the bezel and panel are within the stand area it won't look awkward.

Now when you say you have a huge Center Channel - what size does that mean? Size doesn't necessarily make it perform any better. My stand has 2 shelves and a good amount of space for components unless one has a huge AVR.

Racks and Stands has a good selection of stands to shop through but you'll need to get out the old measuring tape and determine your needs and then your budget and personal preference for style.

(Stand weighs nearly 200lbs and comes shipped from Italy on it's own wooden crate for assembly - dropped ship into my garage and I then carried piece by piece to assemble since it was too heavy to carry into the house by myself - just warning you it's made very well but heavy)

Good Luck! :)

As a member who reads more than comments, I am looking forward to actually seeing, first-hand, the new SXRD sets. My only critical comment so far, is why would Sony design the speakers on the sides of the set rather than on the top and/or bottom?

My logic is that the form factor could be improved considerably if the top/bottom were extended not the ends. That way, the overall width of the set would not be so dramatic as to be a practical issue in terms of room placement.

No 1080p inputs? How many HDMI inputs? It would seem to me the winner of this race is the first company to offer a display without WIFE inputs.

It would seem to me the winner of this race is the first company to offer a display without WIFE inputs.
I think you may have that turned around. The winner may well be the one with the highest Wife Acceptance Factor. I seem to remember a report earlier this year that women are now (by dollar sales volume) the predominent purchasers of high tech electronics! And that doesn't even count all the guys who have to get the purchase approved before they make it.

And that doesn't even count all the guys who have to get the purchase approved before they make it.
Wow...does that actually happen? ;) I've finally got my wife on-board for a 60" SXRD, and now I'm the one getting cold feet. Something's wrong with this picture...:)

Jason

I have been following this thread for two months. Now that the sets have been seen and are almost here it seems many are changing their minds based on very little....why? Did people expect way too much from this set? All I know is my decision between a panny plasma and the sony sxrd seems to get more difficult with more information that I receive. When I finally go get to see one of these sets I'll probably be even more confused, putting my upgrade on hold. This all started with my interest in the A10.....

This all started with my interest in the A10.....

If you don't have to have 60" or bigger, buy the A10, sit back and enjoy it for a few years while the technology improves and the prices collapse, then see if there is something out there that's enough better for you to be willing to spring for it.

I think what's happened is AlanBuck and others saw it first hand at CEDIA and said that at 50" the image quality isn't enough better than the A10 to justify the price difference, plus, to many of us the packaging of the A10 is just more attractive.

Now the $1500 dollar question.. is there a $1500 dollar noticeable difference in picture quality/blacks/inputs? :D

I agree that, given the rapidly advancing tv tech, spending the least amount of money at this time consistent with what you perceive to be acceptable picture quality makes good economic sense.

However, $2,000 plus or minus for the A10 is not chump change either. Before buying, make sure you can live with what the A10 lacks in features compared to the SXRD's, if the picture quality is acceptable to you. For example, only one HDMI input, no Twin View Picture and Picture, poorer built-in sound, limited picture customization features, and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. Personally, for me no Picture-and-Picture is a deal breaker, but that's just me.

If features are important to you, I'd do a side-by-side comparison of the two sets' .pdf owner's manuals first. If the A10 still looks good, go for it, enjoy and wait until the XBR2 or 3 or whatever next pretty toy comes down the road.

I live 20 miles west of Boston, MA - Where can I still find the BEST deal (unit, warranty etc.) on a Sony A10?

Wow...does that actually happen? ;) I've finally got my wife on-board for a 60" SXRD, and now I'm the one getting cold feet. Something's wrong with this picture...:)

Jason

You are the lucky one friend.

Over the past year it's taken very precise wording and timing to convince her. I maintain two branches of government. I vote for myself and future unborn child. Without the third vote from the wife, it's civil war. ;)

Stage 1:
Absolute rejection (as in divorce papers are awaiting my signature) :mad:

Stage 2:
Complaining yet less combative (beware of the "evil eye" when new tv is mentioned) :(

Stage 3:
Feigning ignorance (as in saying "I don't remember us talking about this") :o

Stage 4:
Mild opposing persuasion (as in she says things to convince me that a new tv isn't necessary) :rolleyes:

Stage 5:
Slightly convinced yet indecisive. (At this stage after feeding her American Idol in HD and some other shows she even goes with my to look at some tvs at Best Buy after some coaxing. This is a very delicate stage because it could go either way.) :eek:

Stage 6:
"I don't care how it looks, maybe when (or not until) we move" :)

Stage 7:
TV Delivered. (I'm still working on this one...) :D



Did I mention that part of my PT school requirements is Psychology and Advanced Psychology?

So how is the whole "AVS Power Buy" thing going... rogo, did you hit a brick wall on that?

As a member who reads more than comments, I am looking forward to actually seeing, first-hand, the new SXRD sets. My only critical comment so far, is why would Sony design the speakers on the sides of the set rather than on the top and/or bottom?

My logic is that the form factor could be improved considerably if the top/bottom were extended not the ends. That way, the overall width of the set would not be so dramatic as to be a practical issue in terms of room placement.

As I stated on Friday here, the SONY reps at CEDIA were getting a LOT of negative comments about the overly wide design, and freely admitted it. They all agreed that the next generation design will probably be more similar to the Samsung and JVC sets, as well as the A-10. That is one reason I am likely going to buy an A-10 for now...I figure I can get the SXRD for around 3 grand, or less by then, and then the thing will fit my existing cabinet. Of course as we have also discussed, flat panels may fall in price so quickly that I will skip the SXRD altogether.....time will tell I guess.

SO much info ([Knowledgeable POSTS] to CATCH UP on.])

Just go back from Circuit City (CC) and the saw 50" A10. WAY too small for me. The 55" looked way better. Maybe it was because of the side speakers :cool: (bigger cabinet) on the 55". What to do. What to do. :confused: :(

The lady at CC told me that the XS is not 3 LCD. But then again she told me 3 LCD means 3 Lamps [ :rolleyes: ]. Is the fact that the XS is not 3 LCD not even worth considering (even yes or no answers would be appreciated)? Or should I NOT discount/count out the XS? Thanks.

Some of you guys have to do with WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor). I have to deal with PAF (ParentS Acceptance Factor). Even though they don't know I'm planning on buying a TV. EDIT: THEY JUST WANT ME TO SAVE UP SOME MONEY.

BTW, thanks for your help Phil.

Thanks as always everyone.

I would not agree that the A10 has limited picture customization features. Based on what I've seen in the SXRD manual they have much the same picture customization features. The A10 lets you adjust static and dynamic iris settings, color temp, black corrector, white corrector, gamma and live color, etc. Personally, I don't see the twin view picture capability to be of too much value as it won't show pictures from two digital/HD sources. The sound from the A10 is not spectacular but I use my A/V receiver most of the time. An extra HDMI input would be nice but you can get a good HDMI switch for $250 if necessary for the A10. Yes, like others, I've been having a hard time justifying the extra $1500 or so for the 50" SXRD over the A10.

Well, it's hard to argue with someone who has actually USED the set, re the picture tweaks. I was just recalling a few posts a while ago in the A10 thread (I think - it's all getting to be one big bluuurrrrrrr to me), one of which said his ISF guy couldn't find some of the usual tweak stuff in the menus. Thanks for clarifying.

What I should have added above is that the real deal-breaker for me is the need for a 60" picture, due to seating distance. I could re-arrange the furniture, but that would result in alimony payments. Having seen the 60A20 picture, that set is definitely not an option.

Not having seen the SXRD yet, nevertheless I couldn't agree more that paying approx. 75% more for the SXRD in the 50" size is a large premium for the extra features it offers, if A10 picture quality and features are adequate for now.

SO much info ([Knowledgeable POSTS] to CATCH UP on.])

Just go back from Circuit City (CC) and the saw 50" A10. WAY too small for me. The 55" looked way better. Maybe it was because of the side speakers :cool: (bigger cabinet) on the 55". What to do. What to do. :confused: :(

The lady at CC told me that the XS is not 3 LCD. But then again she told me 3 LCD means 3 Lamps [ :rolleyes: ]. Is the fact that the XS is not 3 LCD not even worth considering (even yes or no answers would be appreciated)? Or should I NOT discount/count out the XS? Thanks.

Some of you guys have to do with WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor). I have to deal with PAF (ParentS Acceptance Factor). Even though they don't know I'm planning on buying a TV. :o

BTW, thanks for your help Phil.

Thanks as always everyone.

Tell the lady at CC that she should be selling dresses..lol. The XS is a 3LCD, as are the GWIII, GWIV, A-10 and A-20's. The main difference is that the A-10's have dynamic iris, whereas the SX and A-20's don't. The A-20, and XS are nice sets for the $$, just not state-of-art like the SXRD's.

Ah, OK, I did not realize that you were referring to tweaking the picture in the service menu. I was referring to the user menus which are good enough for me. ;)

WooHoo! Thanks. I hate it when I'm wrong (which is hardly ever, of course). Actually, I'm just too techno-challenged to remember to differentiate between the Service Menu and the User Menus.

Here's another positive A10 feature vs. the SXRD's: you'll save fifty bucks every time the lamp burns out.

WooHoo! Thanks. I hate it when I'm wrong (which is hardly ever, of course). Actually, I'm just too techno-challenged to remember to differentiate between the Service Menu and the User Menus.

Here's another positive A10 feature vs. the SXRD's: you'll save fifty bucks every time the lamp burns out.

If you can afford the SXRD, you should be able to shell out an extra 50 bucks every 3 years or so for a new lamp...lol :D

Thanks AKA & ALAN. Definitely A10 over the A20 for me, because of the Dynamic Iris. AKA thanks for mentioning the WF series.

Between the XS and WF series, which one has less visible pixel structure? I will be sitting appx. 8' away.

Reason :rolleyes: :o for all these questions: I want a big screen NOW! like there's no tomorrow.

I was just recalling a few posts a while ago in the A10 thread (I think - it's all getting to be one big bluuurrrrrrr to me), one of which said his ISF guy couldn't find some of the usual tweak stuff in the menus
I read that one too and what he was saying was that the ISF guy was going to have to learn the new service menu because it's way different than the ones he was used to on past Sony's. He didn't say it was less capable though.

I'm excited about the SXRDs because I've been technically intrigued by LCOS for several years (lost more on an early investment in Brillian's prior co stock than I'll spend on an HTDV :( ) and am happy to see that it's promise is finally coming to fruition. However, for me the size is a big problem. I'm still trying to get the WAF for moving from a 27" Sony CRT to an A10 (probably the 42 - while the 50 would technically fit the wife says it's too overpowering in this space) I've digitally mocked up the 42 in place of the 27" (see attached photo). Maybe after a few years of this, I can get acceptance for ripping out the fireplace we never use and putting a 70" or so in there :)

The 42A10 would cost about the same as my surround system (note Klipsch center, Klipsch in-ceiling speakers left, right, and rear, Yamaha 1400 and sub behind doors under TV) but she still thinks that too much for a TV.

I'm working on it though. The last major purchase we made that she wanted was 10x that cost :D

Thanks AKA & ALAN. Definitely A10 over the A20 for me, because of the Dynamic Iris. AKA thanks for mentioning the WF series.

Between the XS and WF series, which one has less visible pixel structure? I will be sitting appx. 8' away.

Reason :rolleyes: :o for all these questions: I want a big screen NOW! like there's no tomorrow.

You said 50 inch was too small....the A-10 only comes in 42, and 50 inch sizes. The larger TV's are fine too though, they just won't do blacks, and dark scenes quite as well as the iris models.

I read that one too and what he was saying was that the ISF guy was going to have to learn the new service menu because it's way different than the ones he was used to on past Sony's. He didn't say it was less capable though.

I'm excited about the SXRDs because I've been technically intrigued by LCOS for several years (lost more on an early investment in Brillian's prior co stock than I'll spend on an HTDV :( ) and am happy to see that it's promise is finally coming to fruition. However, for me the size is a big problem. I'm still trying to get the WAF for moving from a 27" Sony CRT to an A10 (probably the 42 - while the 50 would technically fit the wife says it's too overpowering in this space) I've digitally mocked up the 42 in place of the 27" (see attached photo). Maybe after a few years of this, I can get acceptance for ripping out the fireplace we never use and putting a 70" or so in there :)

The 42A10 would cost about the same as my surround system (note Klipsch center, Klipsch in-ceiling speakers left, right, and rear, Yamaha 1400 and sub behind doors under TV) but she still thinks that too much for a TV.

I'm working on it though. The last major purchase we made that she wanted was 10x that cost :D

How far are you sitting from your TV? If over 9 feet or so I would strongly advise the 50 inch A-10 if you have room for it. The 42 will look 'small' as soon as you get used to it....I know cause I want to upgrade from a 42 to at least a 50. :)

If you can afford the SXRD, you should be able to shell out an extra 50 bucks every 3 years or so for a new lamp...lol :D

Ah, but you forget Sir, I'm the guy who bought his Mercedes with the money he saved using all those supermarket Double Coupons. And it only took me 23 years! Not unlike my current tv purchase decision time frame.

:p

How far are you sitting from your TV? About 14' - I agree and want to go 50". My photo mock-up of that alternative is attached below. The width is great, but the height gets to be a little much for this space - works for me, but WAF is another problem all togehter.

About 14' - I agree and want to go 50". My photo mock-up of that alternative is attached below. The width is great, but the height gets to be a little much for this space - works for me, but WAF is another problem all togehter.

WOW...at 14 feet you really need the 50! That is pretty far for a 42 incher. If the 50 fits your shelf, go for it! I am sitting about 12-13 feet from my 42 incher, and it is certainly a bit too far away. The 42 works great at 7-10 feet distance or so.

I suppose with the pixel width being so extremely small on the SXRD that a failure of one of them would be next to nothing as far as noticeable? Dead pixels is literally my only concern with going with these types of displays. I have one of the first Samsung DLPs when they were just out on the scene, been running flawlessly for years. LCD technology always had me wary.

About 14' - I agree and want to go 50". My photo mock-up of that alternative is attached below. The width is great, but the height gets to be a little much for this space - works for me, but WAF is another problem all togehter.

At 13', a 60" seems a bit small. You might want to rethink this. :)

How many times per year are new TV models released by Sony or other companies? If the new TVs are coming out now will the next ones be out a full year from now?

Of course as we have also discussed, flat panels may fall in price so quickly that I will skip the SXRD altogether.....time will tell I guess.

When you refer to "flat panels" you mean what exactly? non-rp LCD's? plasmas?
both? At present, I expectd more people to see SXRD technology as being superior to plasmas. But except for the tighter pixel structure, no one seems to find them superior in any way except price. Now I find myself researching the forum to gain knowledge of the advantages of a plasma... a technology I rejected in the past. When I now think of plasmas I think of better blacks, wider viewing angle, but also lots of electricity and possible uneven screen aging.

When you refer to "flat panels" you mean what exactly? non-rp LCD's? plasmas?
both? At present, I expectd more people to see SXRD technology as being superior to plasmas. But except for the tighter pixel structure, no one seems to find them superior in any way except price. Now I find myself researching the forum to gain knowledge of the advantages of a plasma... a technology I rejected in the past. When I now think of plasmas I think of better blacks, wider viewing angle, but also lots of electricity and possible uneven screen aging.

My problem with plasmas, my only problem except cost, is that I can see the pixel
structure. It's almost as if I'm going back to CRT's where I can see the individual
scan lines so the picture isn't 'smooth', like I'm looking at the screen
itself rather than the image on the screen. To me, plasmas look great until I get close up (9 feet or closer). I've
got a 7' viewing distance at home, I don't see a pixel stricture with my
current DLP set, so it looks like film rather than video. Maybe the new
1920x1080 plasmas won't have this problem,we'll see.

When you refer to "flat panels" you mean what exactly? non-rp LCD's? plasmas?
both? At present, I expectd more people to see SXRD technology as being superior to plasmas. But except for the tighter pixel structure, no one seems to find them superior in any way except price. Now I find myself researching the forum to gain knowledge of the advantages of a plasma... a technology I rejected in the past. When I now think of plasmas I think of better blacks, wider viewing angle, but also lots of electricity and possible uneven screen aging.

I mean both plasma, and flat panel LCD, and whatever else may come along in the next few years that can hang on the wall. Plasma does have some uneven screen aging issues, but the electricity use is not really a big deal unless you watch TV 24/7. A plasma would cost about 5 cents an hour to run here in Indy...not a big deal at all.

I would have been much happier with side speakers if there wasn't dead space between the case and the speaker. 66" wide is huge.

HomeGuy what is just a huge bummer that the Qualia 006 without it's speakers is actually less in width than the 60" SXRD. Ok there is that small price difference. But darn it Sony!

I have been following this thread for two months. Now that the sets have been seen and are almost here it seems many are changing their minds based on very little....why?

Reality is never as good as anticipation. And that goes for new HD televisions as well. ;)

I seem to remember a report earlier this year that women are now (by dollar sales volume) the predominent purchasers of high tech electronics!

You either misread the report, or the author of the report was on crack.
:eek: Men continue to purchase the majority of high-tech electronics.

At 13', a 60" seems a bit small. You might want to rethink this. :)
Right on! What I should really do is get a nice big retractable screen - say 120" and one of the new SXRD projectors!

I've suggested it, but, there again that darn WAF pops up.

I know this was asked earlier, but I can't find the reply posts, if there were any.

Has it been determined if the SXRD's have Wega Gate? The SXRD Sony Specs Convenience section says Wega Gate is an included feature, but there is no identifiable Wega Gate button on the SXRD remote control.

Other Sony's that have W-G have a clearly labeled button on the remote, at the 6 o'clock position in the circular menus area.

Can someone explain the disadvantages of not having Wega Gate? I did read about it in the A10 manual, but it's not clear to me how much of an improvement it is in operating a set over the sets that don't have it.

My apologies for bringing this up again, if it was answered before.

Alan

Wega Gate is just there new menu system that makes it easier to tweak your set. It's not needed but I would bet my house that the new sets have it.

If you compare the manuals carefully though, the menus look identical. My bet is that it is included.

Edit - ah... here it is:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6040154&highlight=you+decide#post6040154

My problem with plasmas, my only problem except cost, is that I can see the pixel
structure. It's almost as if I'm going back to CRT's where I can see the individual
scan lines so the picture isn't 'smooth', like I'm looking at the screen
itself rather than the image on the screen. To me, plasmas look great until I get close up (9 feet or closer). I've
got a 7' viewing distance at home, I don't see a pixel stricture with my
current DLP set, so it looks like film rather than video. Maybe the new
1920x1080 plasmas won't have this problem,we'll see.

You have better eyes than I do if you can see scan lines on a CRT from 9ft! Is that with HD images? My current HD-CRT direct view is serving me fine, but I want an upgrade and a bigger size. Who knew upgrading would be so difficult! One day it's the panny plasma, the next day it's the sony sxrd. I lean toward the plasma since it's more in line with the CRT I have and the prices have dropped. I guess I need to view the SXRD, but even then, I'll still be in a quandry. The feed on the panny at my CC wasn't so good, so I wasn't too impressed....it confused the issue more than helping it. Maybe I should forget upsizing and upgrading.

I read that one too and what he was saying was that the ISF guy was going to have to learn the new service menu because it's way different than the ones he was used to on past Sony's. He didn't say it was less capable though.

I'm excited about the SXRDs because I've been technically intrigued by LCOS for several years (lost more on an early investment in Brillian's prior co stock than I'll spend on an HTDV :( ) and am happy to see that it's promise is finally coming to fruition. However, for me the size is a big problem. I'm still trying to get the WAF for moving from a 27" Sony CRT to an A10 (probably the 42 - while the 50 would technically fit the wife says it's too overpowering in this space) I've digitally mocked up the 42 in place of the 27" (see attached photo). Maybe after a few years of this, I can get acceptance for ripping out the fireplace we never use and putting a 70" or so in there :)

The 42A10 would cost about the same as my surround system (note Klipsch center, Klipsch in-ceiling speakers left, right, and rear, Yamaha 1400 and sub behind doors under TV) but she still thinks that too much for a TV.

I'm working on it though. The last major purchase we made that she wanted was 10x that cost :D

Thanks for the clarification.

I'll never forget the adjustment we had to make when we went from a 20" set to the Pio Elite 55" ten years ago. It completely overpowered the room at first and we thought we had made a BIG mistake. After about three weeks, it became just another piece of furniture. People do adjust to the size and today we're so glad we didn't go smaller. Lesson learned, as far as going for the biggest set you can squeeze into the room, especially with this new HD tech.

Good luck with that fireplace upgrade! You've got my vote.

on the description pages of the SXRD's on sonystyle they list WEGAGATE in the initial bullet points at the top

Powerbuy so far = brick wall. Alan Gouger was working on it so if anything can be done, it'll get done. I'm working it, too, on my end but most dealers here don't know how to do national shipping.

Anyway, to remind people: Powerbuys can only be arranged with the consent of the forum operators.

Oh, and let me say about the TVs: The screen is annoying. It's not horrible, but the veiling effect is there as is the sheen / sparkle.

Whether this will annoy at normal viewing distances remains to be seen. But it's a microdisplay RPTV with a "classic" diffusion / brightness enhancing screen and -- as such -- it has what some of you call the silk-screen effect. Of course, so do the Grand Wegas, the competitors' product, et al. I'm kinda now waffling my way back to plasma, but I loved the picture on the Sony. It was breathtaking. The dynamic iris really helps it outsine the Qualia in some ways.

The industrial design and the screen don't help much.

Pasted from SonyStyle Specifications Page

• Convenience Features

• WEGA GATE™: Easy User Interface

• Freeze Memo™ Screen Freeze: Picture and Picture (PAP)

et al :D

rogo
There have been minor complaints about the dynamic iris on the A10 under certain screen views (for lack of a better word)....did you see any type of "flashing effect" caused by the iris?

gweempose

Racks and Stands has a good selection of stands to shop through but you'll need to get out the old measuring tape and determine your needs and then your budget and personal preference for style.



Thanks for the lead on Racks and Stands. Great site. It's an unxepected bonus of reading through this site.

Burt

If you compare the manuals carefully though, the menus look identical. My bet is that it is included.

Edit - ah... here it is:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6040154&highlight=you+decide#post6040154

That just proves that it's not included. The WEGA Gate sits one level higher (hierarchically) than the actual menu. As you can see in the pics you've referenced, on the A10, you get back to the WEGA Gate when exiting the menu. On the SXRD, you simply close the menu.

Get used to it, it's not on the SXRD. Follow the manual, not the website. A manual is made by people who know the product the manual is for. A website is made by people who do webdesign and, for all we know, might know more about washing machines than high-def TVs.

Ok, I've been reading this thread since day one, and have a few questions/statements :D

First off, Tweeter in Norristown, PA (suburb of Philly) says they have the 50" in their warehouse, he asked me "when I wanted it.." They don't have the 60s yet though he said they arrive on the 16th (friday), no instore models yet, but he expected next week.

Ok now for the questions :)

1) Where's the best place to buy the Sony SUGW12 stand? Is it only available from Sony Style or are there brick and mortar stores that carry it?

2) SXRD tech and the built in scalers won't cause any delay with gaming like some of the DLPs right?

3) Any advice for getting things like this off MSRP? Sorry if this question isnt allowed, maybe a PM conversation might be in order :)

thanks !

Oh, and let me say about the TVs: The screen is annoying. It's not horrible, but the veiling effect is there as is the sheen / sparkle.

Whether this will annoy at normal viewing distances remains to be seen. But it's a microdisplay RPTV with a "classic" diffusion / brightness enhancing screen and -- as such -- it has what some of you call the silk-screen effect. Of course, so do the Grand Wegas, the competitors' product, et al.

Does anyone know where I can find a video clip of this SSE (veiling effect?)? Hmmm..... I wonder if I would be bothered by SSE if I'm bothered by scan lines on my 36" XBR-250 (4:3, non-HD) at at about 8' away. It's a nice TV. I use to "blame" the designers for the scan lines, but when you sit that close to a 36," no matter how "good" the TV is, your bound to see (not just some, but quite a few) scan lines. I have a relative that has the exact same

Thanks. And thanks to everyone for the Costco & Sam Club suggestions. I have a Costco right up the street (but I have to wait for my dad, its his card) to go. Can't wait to see what kind of deals they have (A10, XS, etc).

-- Matthew :)

OK, I've used the viewing distance calculator and I've read a lot on the subject, but I want some opinions from real users before I buy my first HD big screen.

I'm going to have a viewing distance of about 7 feet. Is the 60" SXRD going to be too big? The calculator seems to indicate that it's not, but I sure as heck don't want to get the thing in my house and then find out I should have bought the 50" or waited for the 56" JVC.

Another question while I'm thinking of it... with the set upconverting everything to 1080p, would it be pointless to get a Harman Kardon AVR 7300 with the Faroujda upconversion to 1080i? I guess the question is which would do a better job of upconverting?

Thanks in advance.

12-14' is a good distance for a 60" and Sony suggests a 7' minimum distance. I'm 12.5' from my 60" set or was.

I'm going to have a viewing distance of about 7 feet. Is the 60" SXRD going to be too big? The calculator seems to indicate that it's not, but I sure as heck don't want to get the thing in my house and then find out I should have bought the 50" or waited for the 56" JVC.


What will be your main viewing source? HD, DVD, SD?
I think if you want that immersive movie experience, go for the 60".
If you buy it from a local store you can always return it if it's too big.

Ok, I've been reading this thread since day one, and have a few questions/statements :D

First off, Tweeter in Norristown, PA (suburb of Philly) says they have the 50" in their warehouse, he asked me "when I wanted it.." They don't have the 60s yet though he said they arrive on the 16th (friday), no instore models yet, but he expected next week.

Ok now for the questions :)

1) Where's the best place to buy the Sony SUGW12 stand? Is it only available from Sony Style or are there brick and mortar stores that carry it?

2) SXRD tech and the built in scalers won't cause any delay with gaming like some of the DLPs right?

3) Any advice for getting things like this off MSRP? Sorry if this question isnt allowed, maybe a PM conversation might be in order :)

thanks !


First off, it's highly questionable that anyone has them in their warehouse at this point. I have it on pretty good authority that the SXRD's won't even ship from Sony until 9/26 for arrival at wholesaler's and dealer's warehouses on the 27th.
Of course, this is all subject to change, but that's the latest available info.

As for the stand - usually the best place to buy it is where you buy the TV. You can normally work out some sort of a "package deal" discount. You shouldn't have to worry about any lipsync, delay or lag issues with these sets. Sony is known for the excellence of the scaler/deinterlacers they use. The one in the Qualia got terrific reviews and this one will be similar, or possibly improved since it's newer. Fast Video Processing lessens any lag issues and should also make SD feeds look better than on the sets with cheaper scaler/deinterlacers that have these issues.
Cost is dependent on a number of factors: where you are located, how many sellers you have available in your area, supply & demand, etc. I would guess that with the heavy initial demand for the SXRD's that most won't able to do much better than MSRP -10%. Naturally, after they've been around for a few months, you might be able to do MSRP -15%/20% when demand slackens. These are all generalizations, though. Look at the example of the A10s - the most popular microdisplay by far ever made: prices kept dropping to more than 20% below MSRP as they kept producing them in large quantities. Then demand, always great, became phenomenal and prices have been going up for weeks. Now it's getting tough to buy one for more than 10% under MSRP and many are placing orders at or near MSRP and getting on waiting lists as each batch that arrives is instantly sold in lots of areas.

What will be your main viewing source? HD, DVD, SD?

It will be a pretty diverse mix of SD, DVD, and HD. Along with some XBOX gaming.

Unless he showed you his inventory screen, don't believe. He probably thought you meant the A10/

Ok, I've been reading this thread since day one, and have a few questions/statements :D

First off, Tweeter in Norristown, PA (suburb of Philly) says they have the 50" in their warehouse, he asked me "when I wanted it.." They don't have the 60s yet though he said they arrive on the 16th (friday), no instore models yet, but he expected next week.

Ok now for the questions :)

1) Where's the best place to buy the Sony SUGW12 stand? Is it only available from Sony Style or are there brick and mortar stores that carry it?

2) SXRD tech and the built in scalers won't cause any delay with gaming like some of the DLPs right?

3) Any advice for getting things like this off MSRP? Sorry if this question isnt allowed, maybe a PM conversation might be in order :)

thanks !

Have been following this thread since its inception and think I may want to hold off on the 60"SXRD. I've wanted something larger than 50" BUT if this model outperforms the larger XS955, A20 and XBRs .......
Is the consensus that the 50"A10 the next best alternative?

Have found CC in Massachusetts/New Hampshire a bit more agressive with pricing on the A10 and their extended warranty pkg about the same as others (4 yr/$499).
Feddback/insight/recommendations?

OK, I've used the viewing distance calculator and I've read a lot on the subject, but I want some opinions from real users before I buy my first HD big screen.

I'm going to have a viewing distance of about 7 feet. Is the 60" SXRD going to be too big? The calculator seems to indicate that it's not, but I sure as heck don't want to get the thing in my house and then find out I should have bought the 50" or waited for the 56" JVC.

Another question while I'm thinking of it... with the set upconverting everything to 1080p, would it be pointless to get a Harman Kardon AVR 7300 with the Faroujda upconversion to 1080i? I guess the question is which would do a better job of upconverting?

Thanks in advance.

I think if the PQ and detail of these sets is anywhere near what's being reported out of CEDIA the 60" will be fine at 7'. Generally, once you get used to a set that you originally thought was too big, you think it's too small:).


I don't see the point spending money for an upconverting function on a receiver when the TV or an upconverting DVD player will perform this at least as well unless your TV has limited inputs and you want to use the receiver as your main video source switching device, which is not the case hear. The SXRD's have plenty of video inputs for most people. I imagine the most common configurations for people using an independent sound system will be to route Video into the TV and audio into a receiver.

My original plans were the 6768 Samsung and I bought the *Bello AVS-2663 and have switched to 60"SXRD. I have a Yamaha YSP-1 AVR on that shelf under the TV and it's 48"W and 8" Tall and fits nicely.That Bello is indeed a beautiful stand. There is one thing that perturbs me, however. You said that your AVR is currently sitting on the upper shelf just below the TV. Is your AVR truly 8" tall or is it slightly shorter? The reason I ask is because my center channel is exactly 8" tall and the specs for the stand show that there is only 7 3/4" inches of clearance.

By the way, thanks for enlightening me about Racks and Stands. What a great site! :)

Have been following this thread since its inception and think I may want to hold off on the 60"SXRD. I've wanted something larger than 50" BUT if this model outperforms the larger XS955, A20 and XBRs .......
Is the consensus that the 50"A10 the next best alternative?

Have found CC in Massachusetts/New Hampshire a bit more agressive with pricing on the A10 and their extended warranty pkg about the same as others (4 yr/$499).
Feddback/insight/recommendations?

I would go for about half that on the extended warrantee unless they really give you a good price on the tv (consider it a package price). I was offered $250 for 4 yr with my sxrd. Another store offered 5 yr for that also but slightly more for the set.

That Bello is indeed a beautiful stand. There is one thing that perturbs me, however. You said that your AVR is currently sitting on the upper shelf just below the TV. Is your AVR truly 8" tall or is it slightly shorter? The reason I ask is because my center channel is exactly 8" tall and the specs for the stand show that there is only 7 3/4" inches of clearance.

By the way, thanks for enlightening me about Racks and Stands. What a great site! :)

The measurement they give shelf to the support beams that run horizontally above and my AVR is only 4.5" deep but can slide under fine and it is 8" tall. I measured it as 8.5" from glass shelf to the top support bar but glass to glass is actually 10". Each support beam is recessed about 5" front and back to support the glass.

I believe their measurement must be from the top of the Black Leather Side to the Shelf because when I measure that distance it matches theirs perfectly - why they would measure it that way versus the support beam doesn't make sense but bottom line it provides more space than they list which makes it that much better. My bottom glass shelf to top glass is about 7 3/4".

I had a real challenge finding something that would fit everything I have and I wanted the AVR directly below the TV as the YSP-1 Sound Projector's biggest strengths is dialogue depth and projection when matched with a sub.

For me the Samsung Stand was too cheap looking and had one shelf. This one looks great and accomodates everything I have for a few hundred more than the Sony Stand. The SXRD should fit about perfect even though it was planned for the Sammy 6768 originally. Good Luck! :D

I'm going to have a viewing distance of about 7 feet. Is the 60" SXRD going to be too big? The calculator seems to indicate that it's not, but I sure as heck don't want to get the thing in my house and then find out I should have bought the 50" or waited for the 56" JVC.

at 8ft with my GWIII 50" is just about right. I really can't go any bigger than that...I like to but can't. Maybe 52" but def not 55".
My uncle has GWIV 55" at 9ft and that is really stretching it.
For 60" you really should need at least 9ft.

The measurement they give is shelf to the support beams that run horizontally above and my AVR is only 4.5" deep but can slide under fine and it is 8" tall.My speaker is 8 x 22 x 11 (H x W x D). Do you think it will fit? In the meantime, I came across this stand (http://www.bdiusa.com/avfurniture/icon_9427.shtml) from BDI. It looks pretty cool from the photo, and it will definitely fit my speaker.

I hadn't thought about the front speaker. Since I've had an RPTV I've always been able to put it on top of the set and now worry about it. This is new territory.

I'm planning an HTPC system for the SXRD. How is your SX995 connected to your computer via component? My Mac only has DVI output.

I see that you were able to display 1080i over DVI. How did you set your computer video output to be interlaced?

blue,

i use a vga > component adapter that i got a while ago back before many tvs had dvi (with an old ati 7200 - worked great). when i upgraded the video card (9800)and the tv, i set the resolution to 1080i or 720p through powerstrip (although i think those are standard resolutions in most video cards now) and i was able to just plug a dvi-hmdi cable directly into the xs955. it took a second or two and then synced up and showed the signal. it looked nice, but not substantially better than the component, and both resolutions were overscanned and not adjustable. i think i remember the xs does a d>a>d conversion even when going through the hdmi, so that probably explains why it was not any better than component.

My speaker is 8 x 22 x 11 (H x W x D). Do you think it will fit? In the meantime, I came across this stand (http://www.bdiusa.com/avfurniture/icon_9427.shtml) from BDI. It looks pretty cool from the photo, and it will definitely fit my speaker.

Mine YSP-1 AVR is 8 X 48 X 5 and can slide under the support bar as I've measured it at 8.5" and I have slid it under to adjust cabling behind.

I hadn't thought about the front speaker. Since I've had an RPTV I've always been able to put it on top of the set and now worry about it. This is new territory.
As far as needing the speaker above I wouldn't agree with that today - there are so many quality center channels and SS Systems that will project the sound that you won't tell the difference with a quality unit - it will project it as if coming from the Panel itself. These newer slim line RPTV units make it a little difficult to plop a center channel on top unless you have custom furniture or wall mountables. :)

Hate to keep bringing up the matte vs. shiny screen topic, but what happened to the aftermarket screen protectors that were sold years ago for big screen RPTV's before manufacturers started including them? Couldn't you put one of those on the SXRD and make it look more like the Qualia, if you wanted to. Any ideas?

Been playing catch up at work, so I haven't browsed through all of this since my last post from CEDIA. If it hasn't been mentioned, the Qualia has a glass fresnel screen insteed of acrylic or whatever standard screens are made of. I believe that there are two layers of glass, which is why the set is so heavy.

As my TV is in a room that is lit up during the day I find some SSE a good trade off to get rid of all the glare I had on my 36" CRT. I have a modified KDFE42WE610 with a ND filter (blocks 60% of the light) and as the bulb has dimmed some I am liking it better and better and never notice the SSE unless I am looking for it. The glare, however, would have been a constant pain. That is why Mits dropped the protective screen from this year's sets. The average consumer was put off by it, unless or until it was explained that it was removable.

Also, Sony used the old set chassis to keep the price affordable on the SXRD sets. it costs a lot of money to tool up every year for a new chassis, so most manufacturers try to get 2 or 3 years out of a chassis design. Dumbo or not, those sets look great. Happy shopping in a few weeks! Lew

If your viewing distance is 7,' I would take a tape measure to BB and try out that distance for a good half hour. I'm thinking the 50" may be more reasonable.

Was it ever determined if they support 1080p via HDMI yet?

Trying to get concensus here would be like trying to herd sheep without the help of a sheepdog ;)
The 50" A10 is a nice TV but if I would have had a bit more space I would choose the 55" A20. So, outside of the SXRDs, if you want something bigger than 50" you'll need to go with the A20 (or WF655 or XS955).
I thought the A10 with the dynamic iris feature provided better blacks & contrast with overall PQ to the A20 the same. Are all these sets (XS955, A10, A20, XBR) comporable regarding blacks, PQ, etc?

Trying to ask others what the "right size" set for you is going to get you absolutely nowhere. It's all a matter of personal preference. Some people would be perfectly happy with a 50" set at 14 ft and others want a 60" set at 9 feet. I like a 120" screen at about 11 ft. As has been recommended over and over, you need to go to your local B&M (emphasis on the term "local") and sit for a while in front of a few different sized TVs. Move the chairs so that they match whatever viewing distance you've got at home and see what size set works for you. If in doubt, however, err on the size of larger because there's definitely an adjustment period where the set will at first seem humongous when you set it up, but will seem slightly smaller once you get used to it.

Jason

<<snipped>>
If in doubt, however, err on the size of larger because there's definitely an adjustment period where the set will at first seem humongous when you set it up, but will seem slightly smaller once you get used to it.

Jason

This is especially true of the bedroom set. :)

crackle....crackle.....POP....crackle.....crackle.........sf fftttttttttttttttttttttttt.

Hope the west coast guys have something, or this thing - hated by some,loved by others - seems to be dying out.

OK, I've used the viewing distance calculator and I've read a lot on the subject, but I want some opinions from real users before I buy my first HD big screen.

I'm going to have a viewing distance of about 7 feet. Is the 60" SXRD going to be too big? The calculator seems to indicate that it's not,

Thanks in advance.

The trade off is immersiveness vs PQ. The closer/bigger the set,
the more immersive. OTOH, the closer/bigger the set, the worse the PQ.
A rule of thumb is the screens vertical height should be one third the
veiwing distance. For HDTV, the vertical height is about one half the
diagonal measure, (.49 to be exact).

My viewing distance is 7' and set is a 61" Sammy DLP, which is just about right.

Finally decided on KDS-R60XBR1. Looks like I'll have to pay MSRP. Any advantages or disadvantages of ordering directly from Sony? How about purchasing a extended warranty from them? There doesn't appear to be many choices on the net right now. I live in Denver. Or should I buy local, BB, CC or Ultimate? Any opinions on "The Big Picture" or "Listen Up", local B & Ms?

Thanks.

If your viewing distance is 7,' I would take a tape measure to BB and try out that distance for a good half hour. I'm thinking the 50" may be more reasonable.

I agree....a 60 incher at 7 feet is probably too close for the majority of people's taste. Some would probably even prefer a 42 at that distance. But is all about taste. Buy the size that YOU think you like. Make sure you can return/exchange it if you make a bad call though.

Finally decided on KDS-R60XBR1. Looks like I'll have to pay MSRP. Any advantages or disadvantages of ordering directly from Sony? How about purchasing a extended warranty from them? There doesn't appear to be many choices on the net right now. I live in Denver. Or should I buy local, BB, CC or Ultimate? Any opinions on "The Big Picture" or "Listen Up", local B & Ms?

Thanks.

I advise you wait a month or 2 when you should be able to get 10% off....but it is your $$. :)

60" at 7ft could lead to cross eyes.

60" @ 7ft is just about right for me. It would have to be a digital 1080p tv though and look damn good.

Right now i have a 55" 1080i rptv crt and i am about 6-7ft away from the screen in my little apt. I am very picky about motion artifacts and pixelelation due to compression, so some broadcasts looks like crap.

ESPNHD football at night is bliss.

I do about 7 feet from a 50" RPTV. Anywhere between 7 and 9 feet for that size is good enough for me. I won't ever do less than 6 feet.

Finally decided on KDS-R60XBR1. Looks like I'll have to pay MSRP. Any advantages or disadvantages of ordering directly from Sony? How about purchasing a extended warranty from them? There doesn't appear to be many choices on the net right now. I live in Denver. Or should I buy local, BB, CC or Ultimate? Any opinions on "The Big Picture" or "Listen Up", local B & Ms?

Thanks.

I think ordering direct includes delivery and removal of all the trash.

60" at 7ft could lead to cross eyes.

A viewing distance of 1.5 x diagonal is the stated 'goal of HD tv'. For a 60" = 5 ft screen diagonal this suggests a 7.5 ft viewing distance as ideal, provided the display (and the source ) is good enough not to have artifacts at that distance. It is certainly OK to sit further back--each to his own--but it is this 'full emersion' that is the HD standard.

I am getting a 60" SXRD for just under 8'. I want that immersed feeling. I have sat at that distance in a store watching a lessor 60" set for awhile, and its great at that distance. I wouldnt get smaller, you are WATCHING a smaller set, you are IMMERSED in a larger set. I think this Sony we are talking about here should particularly be a good set to sit close to at the 60" size due to the close pixels.

A viewing distance of 1.5 x diagonal is the stated 'goal of HD tv'. For a 60" = 5 ft screen diagonal this suggests a 7.5 ft viewing distance as ideal, provided the display (and the source ) is good enough not to have artifacts at that distance. It is certainly OK to sit further back--each to his own--but it is this 'full emersion' that is the HD standard.

Me thinks that the HD 'standard' borders on insane...lol. You would see SDE, and artifacts terribly at that distance on a 60 inch screen, as well as risk motion sickness on any fast action shows. But as you say...it truly is 'to each his own'. I surely would not want to sit closer than 9 or 10 feet to a 60 inch...no matter how good the quality of the pic. :D

I am getting a 60" SXRD for just under 8'. I want that immersed feeling. I have sat at that distance in a store watching a lessor 60" set for awhile, and its great at that distance. I wouldnt get smaller, you are WATCHING a smaller set, you are IMMERSED in a larger set. I think this Sony we are talking about here should particularly be a good set to sit close to at the 60" size due to the close pixels.

For those who want to sit REALLY close, the SXRD would be a great choice due to the finer pixel structure and lack of SDE on the screen.

In the A10 manual there is a chapter devoted to WegaGate. This chapter is not in the SXRD manual. Plus, there is no WegaGate button on the SXRD's remote. Oh well, I suppose we'll just have to wait and see but I would bet the SXRDs do not have WegaGate. :)

There was a post earlier where a Sony Rep had said that the manual on the web site for the sxrd was only preliminary and would be updated with correct info later so I think you will see the WegaGate show up then.

Roy

A few thoughts:

(1) Only you can pick viewing distance for you. Forget the damned calculators, they do nothing for you. Look at the movie theater. See people near the front and in back? Which one are you? Use that a gauge and if in the back start at 2.5x the diagonal and move forward until happy. If in the front use 1.2x the diagonal and move back until happy. Or whatever else works for YOU.

(2) The screen's sparkling, etc. effect can't be videoclipped. What you are seeing is the screen itself and some light scatter there from. You need to go view a bunch of microdisplay RPTVs in the store and see if they are annoying to you. I will say that the effect is much worse when you are "too close" and that it might not bother me from normal viewing distances.

Try sitting 5 feet from a 50" and play Halo 2. Migraine City! If you want to be cross-eyed, try that recipe.

The rule of thumb I recommend to my clients is that for regular NTSC programming viewing distance should be five to eight times screen height (not diagonal screen size) and for HDTV, viewing distance seems to work best for most people at three times screen height (which roughly equates to 1.5 times the diagonal). But the type of viewing content and one's personal preferences are, no doubt, overriding factors.

i've found a good picture from the qualia where you can compare the qualia's shiny screen to the matte screen of the new SXRDs

here's the qualia:
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/7066/lcossonysxrd190ii.jpg

this is a screenshot from one of AVS's members from cedia:
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/1503/lcossonysxrd221dp.jpg

To all of you way way back in the thread (and it's only been one stinking day ago!) who responded to my query whether Wega Gate is to be found in the SXRD's, thank you very much. The consensus appears to be No.

This forum is an amazingly powerful consumer tool and a hell of a lot of fun. Like you didn't already know that. :)

Al

The rule of thumb I recommend to my clients is that for regular NTSC programming viewing distance should be five to eight times screen height (not diagonal screen size) and for HDTV, viewing distance seems to work best for most people at three times screen height (which roughly equates to 1.5 times the diagonal). But the type of viewing content and one's personal preferences are, no doubt, overriding factors.

Do you have any quick guide to how many square inches each common 16:9 screen size is? IE 42, 50, 55, 60, 62, 70. Would be handy to calculate how much percent larger one size screen is vs. another. Thanks for your help.

Try sitting 5 feet from a 50" and play Halo 2. Migraine City! If you want to be cross-eyed, try that recipe.

ROGO: Thanks for letting me know that SSE can't be video taped.

MAXIMUM360: Is this because you are using the standard (CORDED) X-Box controller? Or is this how far you can move your couch/chair back? When I was at CC yesterday and was looking at different screen sizes, I was thinking need to buy (OFFICIAL) wireless controllers for my game systems (if available). I'm glad that the PS3 will have wireless controllers [Blue Tooth]. Thanks.

Do you have any quick guide to how many square inches each common 16:9 screen size is? IE 42, 50, 55, 60, 62, 70. Would be handy to calculate how much percent larger one size screen is vs. another. Thanks for your help.

Try this site: www.cavecreations.com/tv2.cgi?KeohiHDTV

Good luck,
Bernie M.

Just go to the above site and you will be able to get and compare exact dimensions of any size 16x9 or 4x3 set; even the square inches shown in different aspect ratios.
NO CALCULATIONS NECESSARY!!!

Bernie M.

Thank you to those who have viewed the SXRD sets, and have commented on their PQ as compared to the Qualia 006. It seems that one of the most notable differences is the SSE apparent on the SXRD displays. Not having viewed the Qualia 006 set, I still don't have a real frame of reference for judging the SXRD's. (I know, just be patient and wait a liitle longer, and I'll see them for myself . . . but who's patient?!!) Anyway, although I haven't seen the Qualia 006 set, I have seen the Qualia 005's, and wonder how the picture on the 005's compare to the 006.

The 005's are flat panels using different technology - LED backlighting - and I found the picture to be, well, the best I've seen. It was the closest to looking through a window at reality that I've come across - clear, crisp, rich colors, and no SDE or SSE at all, even at extremely close viewing distances. I can't comment on how well they handled blacks and dark scenes, as all the scenes in the loop being displayed were bright outdoor scenes. But anyway, they use a reflective (glass, I think) screen, and the picture just pops.

Learning that the SXRD sets will not use a reflective screen such as found in the Qualia units, resulting in SSE, is very discouraging, as that is one of the more annoying traits I've seeen while shopping for a rear projection set (along with motion blur). Hopefully, motion blur will not be an issue with the SXRD models. SDE is not too difficult to live with - although I won't have to - as it virtually disappears with distance. This would be the first projection set for me, and my question is this - does SSE diminish (or even vanish) with distance from the set in the way that SDE does?

Thanks, everyone, for your input on the 60" @ 7 feet question. I knew I'd get a range of responses because everyone has different preferences, but reading your comments has been helpful, nonetheless. I think my big hang-up with getting a 50" 16:9 set is that I am coming from a 50" 4:3 set and I worry about losing so much screen height. But I have to remember that I am also in a different house now and as a result, my viewing distance also changed from about 11 feet to 7. (I sold the 4:3 set rather than paying to have it moved.)

Ultimately, I will have to spend some time in front of the sets at a local dealer to make the decision. Time to find someplace besides Best Buy and Circuit City who will be carrying these sets - the big box stores never have sets displayed in an ideal manner for this sort of thing.

Thanks again, everyone. I really appreciate it!