Do you have any quick guide to how many square inches each common 16:9 screen size is? IE 42, 50, 55, 60, 62, 70. Would be handy to calculate how much percent larger one size screen is vs. another. Thanks for your help.

The formula for converting diagonal measure to square inches is:
D squared times 144, result divided by 337, or
(D squared x 144) / 337 ...........valid for a 16:9 rectangle

To see this, conside that for height X, length is 16X/9.
Plugging into Pythagorean formula and solving for X squared,
X^2 = 81D^2 / 337

Area is X times 16X/9 = 16X^2 / 9, so it follows that area is
144D^2 / 337

If you simply want to find the ratio of areas for various diagonal measures,
note that area is proportional to the square of any linear dimension. Using
this, you need not find the number of square inches to find the ratio of
the areas.
For example, the ratio of areas of 60 vs 50 diagonal is the square of 60/50
or 1.44:1. So a 60 inch screen will be 44% greater than a 50 inch.

Do you have any quick guide to how many square inches each common 16:9 screen size is? IE 42, 50, 55, 60, 62, 70. Would be handy to calculate how much percent larger one size screen is vs. another. Thanks for your help.

Area = Width*Height

Width = Diagonal * cos(minor angle) = Diagonal * (16/18.4)

Height = Diagonal * sin(minor angle) = Diagonal * (9/18.4)

Area = Diagonal^2 * (144/338)

= Diagonal^2 / 2.35

So for a 50" TV = 50x50/2.35 = 1063 in^2

Response Time on the SXRD are a phenomenal 2.5 seconds + pixel Structure should not have any blur or motion artifacts unless the feed is bad.

I agree with ROGO and most others as to personal preference and in-store testing for significant period of time. I don't recall Qualia Owners complaining of close-up viewing on a 70" and I would expect that characteristic to carry-over to these SXRD's to a large extent. They may not mirror the Q006 but are a clone in many areas.

For those not having a 16:9 screen or HD previously recommend resist using the scale you used with a SD and CRT DV. These viewing experiences are very different and in a positive way - 16:9 in HD without bars is amazing and provides an immersion factor that tube tv cannot IMO.

HALO 2 at 5' may be migraine city but 7-8'> may and should be just fine on the SXRD.

Go park yourself at a B&M bring a tape measure and take a test drive for an afternoon or several and at different stores if you can. I must say though I have rarely seen anyone complain of a set as being too large during the past 9 months on this forum but regularly see folks regret not going larger after 2 weeks (provided they don't have furniture or space limits).

Surveys have been done in the past on this forum and overwhelmingly it's been recommended to go bigger as your eyes adjust within a few weeks but I would follow the recommended minimums unless of course one has a visual handicap or just personal preference to be in the front row and want to exercise your neck.

Every new model that comes out we go through these same questions and I guess in two weeks they'll be repeated again. Happy viewing! :D

Do you have any quick guide to how many square inches each common 16:9 screen size is? IE 42, 50, 55, 60, 62, 70. Would be handy to calculate how much percent larger one size screen is vs. another. Thanks for your help.

The area goes up as the square of the diagonal. For example 60*60/(50*50) = 36/25 or about 36/24=1.5 so a 60 inch screen is about 50% bigger than a 50 inch screen with the same aspect ratio.

Westa, your ship date got pushed back?

Yes, the reflection is a little annoying, but man that picture looks phenominal otherwise.

I'm sure part of it is the relative brightness of the particular images being shown, but still... the 60" picture looks like you'd hardly be able to see it at night compared to the Qualia.

Westa, your ship date got pushed back?
All Crutchfield pre-orders were reset to 9/30 about a week or so ago - could be the reason Sears temporarily stopped taking orders and some of theirs were cancelled by Sears according to others that posted here.

Hopefully it's the last delay. :)

Not a very good picture but here is another one from CEDIA from gizmodo

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/images/sonyxrdtv.jpg

Thanks for posting the pics of the new SXRD sets. I really like the look of these sets even with the bird of prey wings. I can't wait to get mine. I'm ready to retire the 43" plamsa with reflective screen.

Not a very good picture but here is another one from CEDIA from gizmodo

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/images/sonyxrdtv.jpg

It looks exactly like my 60XS955, a few months old, that I might have to retire? ;) if I get this one! I think I can keep original sony stand though! Any takers?

Nice pic - Thanks. Looks like a plasma instead of an RPTV sitting there. :)

Just thought of this question A WHILE AGO. NO TIME :) to call Sam's Club (SC) right now because I have to get to bed ASAP, but does anyone know off hand if SC delievers TV's [and if so, how much it?]? Looking to get the A10 (STOP GAP TV) deal AKA got. Plus I have friend that works for SC, maybe he gets an employee discount (will have to find out about that tomorrow). Thanks in advance.

Any chance Sony might drop the hideous side speaker form factor and go with something closer to there a10 models.

Any chance Sony might drop the hideous side speaker form factor and go with something closer to there a10 models.
NO. At least not until the next generation set and Sony is not the quickest at transitioning their sets. Though many dislike them the general consumer doesn't have a problem with it as they've been selling that platform successfully via the xs. I believe ROGO has stated several times that 95% of consumers use those speakers without any SS System whatsoever and he's probably grown tired of posting it - whereas members here usually have their own HT SS that may cost as much or more than the TV.

Forum Members are a microcosm with more of refined taste and standards that would serve Manu Secret Shoppers to study for input on R&D but stand sometime in a BB, CC, or Sears and listen to the interaction with sales associates and the uninformed consumer are targeting PQ, price, reliability and usually are not armed with standards of studied AVSForum members. Perhaps 95% or more consumers will have never studied anything whatsoever before buying - it may be an impulse or perhaps they viewed a new set at their friends or relatives and said I want one too. :D

I don't mean for this to sound negative or condescending but I find standing and listening to the interaction as comical and sad as the level of knowledge and facts is pathetic with most B&M Sales Associates it reminds you of sheep being led to the slaughter (and the last dagger they insert is the Extended Warranty Insurance which they could recite backwards) so much B.S. is presented and they believe it and you can believe they are not going to down those ears unless they use it to market a competitor's TV - but the PQ on the SXRD should sell itself. I expect the PQ to be so good I won't give a damn about the ears. :)

Do you have any quick guide to how many square inches each common 16:9 screen size is? IE 42, 50, 55, 60, 62, 70. Would be handy to calculate how much percent larger one size screen is vs. another. Thanks for your help.

Area = Diagonal x Diagonal x 0.43

So 60" diagonal = 60" x 60" x 0.43 = 1548 sq inches

or

for sq feet = 5' x 5' x 0.43 = 10.75 sq feet

A little algebra does come in handy sometimes.

*** Oops, didn't read on to the end of the thread before posting this. Sorry for duplcation of info. ***

NO. At least not until the next generation set and Sony is not the quickest at transitioning their sets. Though many dislike them the general consumer doesn't have a problem with it as they've been selling that platform successfully via the xs. I believe ROGO has stated several times that 95% of consumers use those speakers without any SS System whatsoever and he's probably grown tired of posting it - whereas members here usually have their own HT SS that may cost as much or more than the TV.



The fact that a lot of people use TV speakers does not mean these side speakers will be a hit. Esp. for bigger sizes, the side speakers make placement difficult.

I'm one of those 95% who uses TV speakers. But these speakers are such a deal breaker for me. I want my tv stand to be wider (or atleast as wide) than the tv. It is very difficult to get good wooden stands which are wider than 60" and won't cost half as much as the TV's.

For those who are considering sitting out the SXRD dance and looking seriously at the A10 for the short term fix - when is the best time to try and wrangle the the best deal?

Not a very good picture but here is another one from CEDIA from gizmodo

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/images/sonyxrdtv.jpg

Any idea if this is the 50" or 60"?

Sears update. As I posted a few days ago, I was notified that my online SXRD order with them, which I had made late last week, was being cancelled due to "nonavailability". In spite of my irritation with Sears, I checked their website yesterday to see if there had been any change in local availability. I didn't expect any, but was surprised to discover that they had just posted a delivery date of approx. 30 days to the Sears store in my area (Coachella Valley, Ca.) I went in, ordered the set and now have a delivery date of 10/13, same one I had online. The salesman said it had just shown up in their system. I can only speculate that Sears had commited a certain number of sets to their stores and could not get enough sets beyond that to fill all their online orders within a reasonable time - just a guess. I would rather deal with a real person in a real store, so this has worked out for the better so far.

The store that I ordered mine from (Abt Electronics) is showing that a bunch of them are due to arrive on 9/23. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. :)

For those who are considering sitting out the SXRD dance and looking seriously at the A10 for the short term fix - when is the best time to try and wrangle the the best deal?

With TVs advancing in technology so quickly, I can't justify the extra $$..it's about 1500 extra; I just picked up the A10 50" for $2100..

my old 34 inch 16x9 tube CRT is not even 3 yrs old and it is already outdated!

The store that I ordered mine from (Abt Electronics) is showing that a bunch of them are due to arrive on 9/23. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. :)

When I ordered Sunday from Abt, they couldn't give me a date. I wonder if the 50" sets will come later than the 60" sets? I think Sony has done that before... Use the parts on the higher profit units first :mad:

A different store said they had their stock scheduled for the 18th.

Sears update. As I posted a few days ago, I was notified that my online SXRD order with them, which I had made late last week, was being cancelled due to "nonavailability". In spite of my irritation with Sears, I checked their website yesterday to see if there had been any change in local availability. I didn't expect any, but was surprised to discover that they had just posted a delivery date of approx. 30 days to the Sears store in my area (Coachella Valley, Ca.) I went in, ordered the set and now have a delivery date of 10/13, same one I had online. The salesman said it had just shown up in their system. I can only speculate that Sears had commited a certain number of sets to their stores and could not get enough sets beyond that to fill all their online orders within a reasonable time - just a guess. I would rather deal with a real person in a real store, so this has worked out for the better so far.


The store in my area (Dallas/Ft.Worth) said they would have them in-store around Oct.15th if everything stays on track. We'll see.....

Any idea if this is the 50" or 60"?

According to the page I took it from ( http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/cedia/cedia-news-photo-swirl-1-125282.php ) its the 60" running blu-ray demos.

"... does SSE diminish (or even vanish) with distance from the set in the way that SDE does?"

I'd say yes. It's a totally different effect however.

Oh, and on another note, that was a great post by westa.

"... does SSE diminish (or even vanish) with distance from the set in the way that SDE does?"

I'd say yes. It's a totally different effect however.

Oh, and on another note, that was a great post by westa.


If SSE is as bad as the lcds the 60sxrd will have terrible SSE....Which i highly doubt myself...

It's the same screen material.

This mis-named effect is a product of the screen material.

YMMV.

What was the Sony60XBR950 screen material? Wasent that the same as the Qualia? I still could see the Same SSE SDE effect on the 60Xbrs as i could see when i had my 60we...

Here we go again folks! :rolleyes:

Well know soon enough....The 60sxrd should have the LEAST amount of SDE SSE available...

For those who are considering sitting out the SXRD dance and looking seriously at the A10 for the short term fix - when is the best time to try and wrangle the the best deal?

With TVs advancing in technology so quickly, I can't justify the extra $$..it's about 1500 extra; I just picked up the A10 50" for $2100..








IMHO, the extra cash to have the SXRD over the A10 is worth it.... even if it's just for a year or so.

Also, I think I can walk out the door with a 50" for a little over three grand. :D

Here we go again folks! :rolleyes:


Deja Vu all over again ;)

How abought dead pixels? How abought bright spots on a totally black sceen?

And the most im worried abought is the dynamic iris... Can you shut it off so you wont see the effect...If there is a negative effect, which i hope not, but bet there will be..

How abought dead pixels? How abought bright spots on a totally black sceen?

And the most im worried abought is the dynamic iris... Can you shut it off so you wont see the effect...If there is a negative effect, which i hope not, but bet there will be..

How about leaving your house? Maybe you get attacked by a rabid dog.

How about going to the Bank? Maybe you get shot in a holdup.

How about getting on a plane? Maybe you get hijacked by terrorists.


At some point in life you just have to stop worrying about everything and just say f**k it. :cool:

How abought Old age..Thats the worst :mad:

I did not get attacked by a rabid dog or shot in a holdup or hijacked by terrorists today but I did lose a pair of $150 Ray-Ban sunglasses today (I did something stupid) and I'm extremely upset! :mad:
If I had not gone to my local UE store to enquire about when they expect the SXRDs in (9/23) this would not have happened! :(

I lost a pair of $120 Oakleys at UE... must be something about their clientele

How abought dead pixels? How abought bright spots on a totally black sceen?

And the most im worried abought is the dynamic iris... Can you shut it off so you wont see the effect...If there is a negative effect, which i hope not, but bet there will be..


Man you are one "glass is half empty" kind of dude! :p :p

[QUOTE=gazelle

At some point in life you just have to stop worrying about everything and just say f**k it. :cool:[/QUOTE]


Some peaple have went bankrupt by that way of thinkin :mad:

Man you are one "glass is half empty" kind of dude! :p :p

No im a Full glass Colt45 drinker :)

So let's get this straight, someone is now afraid of a dynamic iris which is hardly noticeable, if at all, and improves CR by 5:1.

But completely in denial about the screen material and still confusing it with screendoor effect?

OK. Have fun.

Not a very good picture but here is another one from CEDIA from gizmodo

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/images/sonyxrdtv.jpg

thanks for the link! looks really good, the white really looks white on that picture.

THe new SXRD sets look hot. I really like the look so maybe the bird of prey wings won't be that bad.

Funny how "Bird of Prey Wings" and "Dumbo Ear" elicits different emotions.

Thank you Bernie M for that fantastic site with the comparisons of sizes for all the tv sets.

I have been looking for something like that, and this is the best i have seen. Even to show the dimensions for the dreaded letterboxed (lets not start that argument in this thread) are here, great man, thanks so much!

Now more than ever i am convinced the 60" SXRD is the only way to go.

Oh man, these TVs need to arrive soon...this thread needs to be buried. :D

I ordered my set the first day it was made available through Tweeters here in Arlington VA. I was number two on their list in our area. I called the other day and John (sales guy) said they expect to get 55 sets in on 9/16 (this friday) and will be able to deliver on the next tuesday. Seeing is believing, but he seemed pretty detailed for some guy that could have been talking BS.

Anyone else ordering from Tweeter or even ordering from tweeter in my area that knows something different?

I was lurking around here for a couple weeks to get more educated on the sxrd technology. First big screen tv, can't wait to watch the football games and I especially like the pip so I can watch two games at the same time without squinting at a small box, like my 10 yr old 32" sony pip had. I was told that it will take 2-4 weeks. I will get hd cable and learned that when they split the cable to 2 tuners that you only can get an analog channel on the pip or pap. Is that true and why, does anyone know?

donn77, where'd you order your TV for that price? IIRC though, you're technically not supposed to post prices in the forums other than MSRP. Thanks,
--Kyle

Anyone with low prices on the 50" feel free to PM me. ;)

Thanks.

I ordered my set the first day it was made available through Tweeters here in Arlington VA. I was number two on their list in our area. I called the other day and John (sales guy) said they expect to get 55 sets in on 9/16 (this friday) and will be able to deliver on the next tuesday. Seeing is believing, but he seemed pretty detailed for some guy that could have been talking BS.

Anyone else ordering from Tweeter or even ordering from tweeter in my area that knows something different?They're making 55" SXRD sets? Cool! ;)

Sorry, I didn't know that prices cannot be posted, I thought I read on this forum that someone else posted that same figure. Mine's a little more complicated, I purchased a tv 2 weeks ago during a local dept store labor day sale for 10% off electronics for their preferred customers. On monday went to make arrangements to have it returned and order the sxrd. I first was going to order the 50" sxrd for the msrp then asked if I still can get the 10% off, (I might add my wife and I are very good customers at this store for many years, and I think that's why I got the 10% off, ), they said yes. Well then I ordered the 60". So if you called this store and asked for 10% off you would not get it. It's not a huge chain but I better not give their name because they may get flooded with calls for the 10% off and the sxrd is really not on sale. Mine was an isolated incident.

I'm familair with most of those specs, but what is fill rate?

Apparently, "fill rate" is a misnomer as 'rate' imlpies time. There is
no 'time' only area displacement. So it would properly be called
fill ratio or fill factor.

Kinda reminds me of how in football games some announcers refer to
turnover differential as 'turnover ratio'. Makes me cringe whenever
I hear that, makes the announcer appear to have less than a high school
education as he doesn't know what the word 'ratio' means.

If I had not gone to my local UE store to enquire about when they expect the SXRDs in (9/23) this would not have happened! :(

So, Soundtrack is sticking to their 9/23 story, wonder how long that will last?

SonyStyle Canada indicates the SXRD sets will be available at the end of September.

Interesting to see which country gets them first.

So let's get this straight, someone is now afraid of a dynamic iris which is hardly noticeable, if at all, and improves CR by 5:1.

But completely in denial about the screen material and still confusing it with screendoor effect?

OK. Have fun.

I am still a mess over deciding what to buy for now. I went to a store last night thinking that the A-10 would do it for now. It looked 'ok', but then i looked at the Panny HD plasmas nearby....WOW! What a difference! I am even wondering after seeing the Panny again that it may well still outperform even the SXRD, except for seeing SDE on the Panny when fairly close. The 'pop', and contrast, and clarity of the Pannys is amazing. No damn SSE on them either. Problem is with the Panny I can only fit a 42 inch in exisiting cabinet...the A-10 50 inch fits.
Some deluded souls have rated the A-10 as superior to the Panny plasmas, I just cannot see how one can come to this conclusion! Will also be interesting to see the SXRD next to the Pannys. I am more and more coming to hate the SSE on all the microdisplays....UGHH..lol :)

Try this site: www.cavecreations.com/tv2.cgi?KeohiHDTV

Good luck,
Bernie M.

Just go to the above site and you will be able to get and compare exact dimensions of any size 16x9 or 4x3 set; even the square inches shown in different aspect ratios.
NO CALCULATIONS NECESSARY!!!

Bernie M.

Thanks so much to all for your input on this. I love the site you provided above :) , since it does all the math for me!

I am still a mess over deciding what to buy for now. I went to a store last night thinking that the A-10 would do it for now. It looked 'ok', but then i looked at the Panny HD plasmas nearby....WOW! What a difference! I am even wondering after seeing the Panny again that it may well still outperform even the SXRD, except for seeing SDE on the Panny when fairly close. The 'pop', and contrast, and clarity of the Pannys is amazing. No damn SSE on them either. Problem is with the Panny I can only fit a 42 inch in exisiting cabinet...the A-10 50 inch fits.
Some deluded souls have rated the A-10 as superior to the Panny plasmas, I just cannot see how one can come to this conclusion! Will also be interesting to see the SXRD next to the Pannys. I am more and more coming to hate the SSE on all the microdisplays....UGHH..lol :)


So I'm gussing that the Panny industrial 5O" is not on the table for consideration? Without speakers on the sides, it may fit if an A10 50 incher will work...

I am still a mess over deciding what to buy for now. I went to a store last night thinking that the A-10 would do it for now. It looked 'ok', but then i looked at the Panny HD plasmas nearby....WOW! What a difference! I am even wondering after seeing the Panny again that it may well still outperform even the SXRD, except for seeing SDE on the Panny when fairly close. The 'pop', and contrast, and clarity of the Pannys is amazing. No damn SSE on them either. Problem is with the Panny I can only fit a 42 inch in exisiting cabinet...the A-10 50 inch fits.
Some deluded souls have rated the A-10 as superior to the Panny plasmas, I just cannot see how one can come to this conclusion! Will also be interesting to see the SXRD next to the Pannys. I am more and more coming to hate the SSE on all the microdisplays....UGHH..lol :)

ALANB: I'm afraid to ask :D , but what's the MSRP on this Panny Plasma? And the size? Thanks.

So I'm gussing that the Panny industrial 5O" is not on the table for consideration? Without speakers on the sides, it may fit if an A10 50 incher will work...

Great idea...but misses by about half an inch! My luck..lol

ALANB: I'm afraid to ask :D , but what's the MSRP on this Panny Plasma? And the size? Thanks.

The 42 inch can be had for under 3 grand now, they were basically telling me they wanted to negotiate with me...they had it tagged for 2999.00. So it's about a grand more than the equal size A-10. Far better overall PQ though IMHO.

No im a Full glass Colt45 drinker :)


No wonder you are having trouble with this SSE thing.... your wearing beer goggles!! :D :D

OK. Now I'm even more geeked to see these sets. I went over to the Mini-Mag in BB at lunch today just to see what new sets they had on display and encountered the 62" Mits 1080p. It looked excellent to these eyes, undoubtedly a notch above the Samsung 6168 sitting nearby which looked slightly fuzzy by comparison (this is something that's bugged me about all of the new Samsungs be it 720p or 1080p with the notable exception of the '88 series). Of course this is all with ITSS (in-the-store-setup as opposed to straight OOTB), so I don't know how much of a factor that was. The results seemed consistent with what I've seen from the 6168 elsewhere though.

Anyway, I've read from a number of people that they feel that the Sony SXRDs are modestly superior in PQ to the 1080p (wobulated) DLPs. If this holds true, then a 60" will almost certainly be finding a home in my family room in about a month (thus ending a 7 year holdout). I'm having to work hard not to get too pumped up (looking at the dumbo ears is helping keep me grounded in reality though :eek: ).

The only thing that still concerns me about these sets is how the black level and shadow detail turn out. That's the only thing that I didn't like about the 006 that I've seen (uncalibrated, on a showroom floor though). This is an issue that all the LCOS sets that I've seen to date seem to struggle with vs. DLP. I'm optimistic, based on the CEDIA reports, that this new generation may finally have that solved.
Weak, undefined blacks could be a deal breaker for me (unless the other aspects of the image are just so much better than 1080p DLP).

Let me clarify that when i stated 55, I was referring to the quantity of sets being delivered to Tweeter on that date, not the number of inches. To my knowledge there is no 55 inch SXRD coming down the pipe SOON.

Seems that opinions are split right now due to discrepancies between what is mentioned in the features/specs and the currently available manual. So, it looks like we'll just have to wait and see. ;)

Thank you.

When I ordered Sunday from Abt, they couldn't give me a date. I wonder if the 50" sets will come later than the 60" sets? I think Sony has done that before... Use the parts on the higher profit units first :mad:

A different store said they had their stock scheduled for the 18th.

Not that it matters at this point, but the original projected delivery dates for the SXRD's were October for the 60 and November for the 50. So, you are right, there is precedent for staggered release dates and the larger set coming first. No one is saying that's what's going to happen now, though.

Hey all. I've been reading this board for about a month behind the scenes as I too am interested in buying an HDTV, particularly the new Sony SXRD. Recently there has been some talk on the release date as both Sear and Cruthfield (and some other online retailers) pushed their release dates back into the October timeframe at the earliest. Well, I went to two of my local Tweeter stores in NJ (Lawrenceville and Maple Shade) and found out something very interesting. The Tweeter in Lawrenceville indiciated that their computers still showed a 9/16 delivery date to their local warehouse, meaning it will be in the store next week sometime. At first, I did not really believe it and assumed that the word of the later date just didn't get to them yet. But then, about an hour ago I went to the Tweeter in Maple Shade to ask what date they had. The salesman (I know the guy) told me that a Sony rep was just in the store that morning to confirm that they will be delivering the 60" SXRD....ready....TOMORROW!! :D The guy told me that means they should have it out on display as early as Friday (and available for purchase). Seeing is believing but I will be back there on Friday to see what the deal is. If they do get it this week or next, it would make sense that it's earlier than other places since Sony's manufacturing plant is right here in PA. I would think that the Northeast would be the first to have them available. Just thought I'd pass the word :)

Let me clarify that when i stated 55, I was referring to the quantity of sets being delivered to Tweeter on that date, not the number of inches. To my knowledge there is no 55 inch SXRD coming down the pipe SOON.

Thank God for the clarification. :eek:

So much for the stand I just banged out for this non existent 55” :confused:

Now I have to scrap the cut to size piece of cherry wood with the bird of prey etchings.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D

How abought Old age..Thats the worst :mad:

Ah yes, "Old Age - a failure to die while young." Lousy alternatives, if you ask me, which you didn't.

Now I'm depressed. I need my SXRD.

And a hug.

OK, just the SXRD.

Will also be interesting to see the SXRD next to the Pannys. I am more and more coming to hate the SSE on all the microdisplays....UGHH..lol :)

I find the visible pixel structure on the plasmas more objectionable
than the SSE on DLPs. I have a DLP and I only notice SSE on a fraction
of all scenes, like when there is a large, flat bright area. But with
plasmas pixel structure, it's there all the time, in every scene. Hopefully,
the SXRD will have neither bad artifact.

...
The only thing that still concerns me about these sets is how the black level and shadow detail turn out. That's the only thing that I didn't like about the 006 that I've seen (uncalibrated, on a showroom floor though). This is an issue that all the LCOS sets that I've seen to date seem to struggle with vs. DLP. I'm optimistic, based on the CEDIA reports, that this new generation may finally have that solved.
Weak, undefined blacks could be a deal breaker for me (unless the other aspects of the image are just so much better than 1080p DLP).

I've not yet seen any of the 1080P DLPs yet. Although I did see the Quala in a semi-darkened room at Ovation Audio. It was in there with a Plasma which I don't recall the brand. The input was very poor as it looked very pixelated on both the sets. However, when a black background came up with white text, the black levels looked very good. Especially compared to the nearby plasma. I'm interested in either the Mits/Toshiba DLP, the JVC D-ila, or lastly the Sony Sxrd. The Sony is last only because the 60" is the largest in my price range (the Quala is out of it) as I prefer a 70"+ set.

Here is a great pic of the new 60" SXRD set: ftp://extra.**************.com/BDP_Images/big_kdsr50xbr1_Front.jpg

Here is a great pic of the new 60" SXRD set: ftp://extra.**************.com/BDP_Images/big_kdsr50xbr1_Front.jpg


?

Long time lurker here... this board is SO informative, and I rarely have anything to say that would add to the experience... but...

If you live near Chicago, it appears that you can see the KDS-R60XBR1 starting tomorrow at The Little Guys, which is south of Chicago.

From what their website says, they are the first in the nation to have it on display.

I ordered my set the first day it was made available through Tweeters here in Arlington VA. I was number two on their list in our area. I called the other day and John (sales guy) said they expect to get 55 sets in on 9/16 (this friday) and will be able to deliver on the next tuesday. Seeing is believing, but he seemed pretty detailed for some guy that could have been talking BS.

Anyone else ordering from Tweeter or even ordering from tweeter in my area that knows something different?

The sets are due to arrive at the main warehouse on 9/16. Keep in mind that they were originally due to arrive on 09/09. Lets hope they don't push back that date again. I'm waiting for them to hit my store so I can see them in person. I was about to get the A10 until I read about the new SXRD's coming. If it looks as good as people are sayin, I'll have a a 50" in my family room. I let you all know when they hit my store (Sound Advice/ Tweeter) in Ft myer's. I'm keeping track of the ship dates for both 50 and 60 sets.

It's beginning to feel a lot like chrismas eve, in here.

Long time lurker here... this board is SO informative, and I rarely have anything to say that would add to the experience... but...

If you live near Chicago, it appears that you can see the KDS-R60XBR1 starting tomorrow at The Little Guys, which is south of Chicago.

From what their website says, they are the first in the nation to have it on display.

Wow...go windy city!

I find the visible pixel structure on the plasmas more objectionable
than the SSE on DLPs. I have a DLP and I only notice SSE on a fraction
of all scenes, like when there is a large, flat bright area. But with
plasmas pixel structure, it's there all the time, in every scene. Hopefully,
the SXRD will have neither bad artifact.

It really depends on your viewing distance.....I can't see the plasma pixels at what I consider a normal viewing distance...but I can see the SSE on the projection TV's at most any distance. I can tell you that the SXRD has NO SDE at all, but the SSE is there at a similar level (maybe slightly lower) to the other SONY 3LCD RPTV's.

Here is a great pic of the new 60" SXRD set: ftp://extra.**************.com/BDP_Images/big_kdsr50xbr1_Front.jpg

sorry, but i don't get it :-/ - could anyone please tell me whats the real URL?

Guess home guy is not home

If you live near Chicago, it appears that you can see the KDS-R60XBR1 starting tomorrow at The Little Guys, which is south of Chicago.Thanks for the heads up. I wish the store was closer to me. Since I'm a Northsider, it's a pretty far ride. As much as I want to see this set in person, there is no way I'm schlepping out to 183rd and Halsted.

Originally Posted by LL3HD:

Thank God for the clarification.

So much for the stand I just banged out for this non existent 55”

Now I have to scrap the cut to size piece of cherry wood with the bird of prey etchings.

Originally Posted by BuTal63:

Ah yes, "Old Age - a failure to die while young."

Now I'm depressed. I need my SXRD.

And a hug.

OK, just the SXRD.

Ahhh...now that is the thread I have grown to know and love.

Crutchfield lists available date as October 7 now. Darn.

The 42 inch can be had for under 3 grand now, they were basically telling me they wanted to negotiate with me...they had it tagged for 2999.00. So it's about a grand more than the equal size A-10. Far better overall PQ though IMHO.

Save your money. The following link is to Panasonic's largest on-line
retailer and Panasonic honors the warranty:
http://www.visualapex.com/

Ahhh...now that is the thread I have grown to know and love.

Crutchfield lists available date as October 7 now. Darn.Even worser ;) "Expected: 10/15/2005" (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Igg77W3OoAZ/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=158SR60XBR&search=kdSR60XBR1) :mad:

Originally Posted by Uninvited Guest:

Even worser "Expected: 10/15/2005"

Right you are as to the 60" set. I have the 50" link in my favorites.

ABT electronics has a great pic. I guess they don't want me posting URL's.

My Sears delivery date of 10/13 for the 50" is looking better by the day. They claim they will have a floor model in the store (Palm Desert, Ca.) any day, so we shall see. I have never dealt with Sears before, but I just have a hunch that they might have a leg up on this with Sony. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

KDS-R60XBR1 from goodguys. I was told that they are expecting 3 tomorrow. The earliest truck to my store is Tuesday.

New date from goodguys: 9/22/05 at their warehouse. First truck to my store 9/24/05.

10 days!!!

Tweeter here in Chattanooga tn.(middle tn) says they'll have a 60" tomorrow. There asking msrp and I asked if they'd sell the floor model cause they don't stock them. He said yes but most people want to see it first. lol thinking of alot of folks here. Call your local tweeter. If we have it this far south you might too. Sears sead 10-15

Curious, I'll have to swing by Sony in nyc tomorrow and see where they stand...

So many people keep mentioning Tweeter. In South Florida we have Sound Advice, and I had heard at least 6 months ago that Tweeter bought them out and would change the name, yet so far nothing. Anybody know about this?

Also, would any basic deals at any Tweeter be honored at a Sound Advice on the SXRD? I guess I should just go in and ask, but i hate dealing with sales people like poison, particularly when i am not ready to buy (it will be a couple of months before i get the SXRD, plus as much as i say i want one, i wont pre-order something this expensive without seeing one in person first).

New date from goodguys: 9/22/05 at their warehouse. First truck to my store 9/24/05.

10 days!!!

Any word on 50" sets?

So many people keep mentioning Tweeter. In South Florida we have Sound Advice, and I had heard at least 6 months ago that Tweeter bought them out and would change the name, yet so far nothing. Anybody know about this?

Also, would any basic deals at any Tweeter be honored at a Sound Advice on the SXRD? I guess I should just go in and ask, but i hate dealing with sales people like poison, particularly when i am not ready to buy (it will be a couple of months before i get the SXRD, plus as much as i say i want one, i wont pre-order something this expensive without seeing one in person first).

Sound Advice in Florida, HiFi Buys in Georgia are definitely Tweeters. They will be moving to one brand name shortly.

I was lurking around here for a couple weeks to get more educated on the sxrd technology. First big screen tv, can't wait to watch the football games and I especially like the pip so I can watch two games at the same time without squinting at a small box, like my 10 yr old 32" sony pip had. I was told that it will take 2-4 weeks. I will get hd cable and learned that when they split the cable to 2 tuners that you only can get an analog channel on the pip or pap. Is that true and why, does anyone know?

Yes it's true, because the second tuner only does standard definition. At least on Sony's. Though that won't matter if you get your HD via a set-top box, since that will be what you use to tune to whatever you're watching, and it only has 1 tuner. What I said above only applies if you use both tuners in the TV, which means over the air signals.

Long time lurker here... this board is SO informative, and I rarely have anything to say that would add to the experience... but...

If you live near Chicago, it appears that you can see the KDS-R60XBR1 starting tomorrow at The Little Guys, which is south of Chicago.

From what their website says, they are the first in the nation to have it on display.




Wow...go windy city!


I guess I know where I'll be on Saturday... :D

So many people keep mentioning Tweeter. In South Florida we have Sound Advice, and I had heard at least 6 months ago that Tweeter bought them out and would change the name, yet so far nothing. Anybody know about this?

Also, would any basic deals at any Tweeter be honored at a Sound Advice on the SXRD? I guess I should just go in and ask, but i hate dealing with sales people like poison, particularly when i am not ready to buy (it will be a couple of months before i get the SXRD, plus as much as i say i want one, i wont pre-order something this expensive without seeing one in person first).


Sound Advice has been owned by Tweeter for over 2 years now. They just haven't changed the name yet. Last Feb the execs were talking about the name transitioning this season. I have yet to see or hear anything about it as of yet at the store level. It looks like they'll wait until after the season. Way too much promotion has gone out already. We shall see.......

As far as promotions. Prices and promos should be the same for both SA and TWTR. The only Prices in our system currently are MSRP. No promos listed yet. And they usually don't until they arrive.

Circuit City has the Sony SU-GW12 stand (that fits both the 50" and 60" SXRD's onsale (web only price) as of today. I don't know how long that sale is for. I won't show the price since it might be against the message board policy, but it is $60.00 off the normal price. Here is the link...

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=100659&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&BV_UseBVCookie=No#tabs

Long time lurker here... this board is SO informative, and I rarely have anything to say that would add to the experience... but...

If you live near Chicago, it appears that you can see the KDS-R60XBR1 starting tomorrow at The Little Guys, which is south of Chicago.

From what their website says, they are the first in the nation to have it on display.If your talking about the place in Glenwood...All their TV's are usually set up correctly so you will see it at its best...Nice high end store...But not cheap! :)

Frig'in AWESOME PQ. Was like looking at a 60 in. tube. Great blacks
and contrast. The only source was Blu-Ray DVD so could not observe
anything but the best possible source material.

My Samsung has a comparable PQ if I turn on MOVIE mode and sit in
a darkened room. BUT the Sony set with full on ambient lighting
looked just as good or possibly even better. Literally like a 60 in.
CRT... AMAZING....

A physicist working with the SXRD technology gave a lecture on the technology
and explained why even though other LCOS companies vertically align an
inorganic layer which should give a theoritical "black" they have not been able
to do so. He would not disclose the trade secrets but they have to do with their
perfection of the semiconductor process.

They are going to take TI head on and believe they have them running scared!

And they are not done improving SXRD yet :-)

Yes it's true, because the second tuner only does standard definition. At least on Sony's. Though that won't matter if you get your HD via a set-top box, since that will be what you use to tune to whatever you're watching, and it only has 1 tuner. What I said above only applies if you use both tuners in the TV, which means over the air signals.

Is this true of all Cable tuners? I'm thinking of the Motorola 6412 which can record two HD channels at once. I figured that this would mean that I could hook the SXRD up to both tuners and get PIP. My biggest debate right now is that I want a TV that can do PIP in HD and that is why I'm leaning towards the SXRD. I'd go for the A-10 but, as I understand it, can't do PIP.

Please correct me if I'm wrong or misinformed.

Ski

Frig'in AWESOME PQ. Was like looking at a 60 in. tube. Great blacks
and contrast.

Great to hear this Tony. Hopefully they'll be on display in the OC soon.I had to return my HLR6768 due to both a problem with the set and my unexpected and unwelcome ability to see rainbows every 30 seconds! So, now I'm investigating the SXRD and JVC sets as alternatives. I'd jump on the SXRD, but I'm really disappointed I'll have to go down so much in size! Our immovable seating position is 16', though the kids are often MUCH closer.

Some deluded souls have rated the A-10 as superior to the Panny plasmas, I just cannot see how one can come to this conclusion! Will also be interesting to see the SXRD next to the Pannys. I am more and more coming to hate the SSE on all the microdisplays....UGHH..lol :)

Some people like the pres.... :) Just kidding.

I don't find the A10s in league with the Panasonic plasmas. The SXRDs are in that league.

I was ready to buy the SXRD but that darned cabinet and that darned screen may just be too much for me...

The Panasonic plasma has been calling my name....

Thanks for mentioning that. I didn't think of looking for a Sony Style store so I went on their web site, looked at the store location page and found that there is a store in downtown Denver. I'll give them a call tomorrow to determine if they have any SXRDs on display and head over there if so.

Here's the page if anyone needs it...
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_ViewStatic-Start?page=%2fstatic%2fstores%2fsy_stores%2eisml

Wasn't a Sony store - I was at Sony Corporation in San Diego...

The Panasonic plasma has been calling my name....

Can't wait to see it. Wonder how the BL and CR will compare with SXRD...

Can you still see the pixel structure on the new Plasmas? All the Plasmas I have seen so far is very annoying to look at becasue I can always see the pixel structure. If you can't see it in the new ones, I would think the picture would be rather good.

Ah, OK. Nevertheless I think I'll call the local Sony Style store and see if they have on display yet.

How did you feel about the screen on the SXRD? Did you see any problems with SSE (aka sparkles)? If so, was it any better or worse than on your Samsung?

Did you happen to check the remote and the menus for Wega Gate?

rogo, what do you feel is the problem with the screen on the SXRD? Too much SSE (sparkles)?


Did not notice any SSE on the content they were playing but stood within
a couple feet and could not see any SDE whatsoever.

It was a SXRD technology presentation not a SXRD XBR TV set presentation so
did not have time to check out the remote or menus, etc.

P.S. Even though the room was full of lighting I did not notice
any reflections or glare but the screen looks really glossy so I
not sure exactly what kind of material they are using but
its really good...

Was the bezel a very glossy (reflective) black like on the Samsung 78 models?

It was black but I don't remember it being really shiny although not as flat
as my 6168. I definitely don't like the style of the set - hopefully they will have
detachable speakers on next summer's models..

I'm trying to get my head around the conversion process from one HDTV format to another. From what's been said, the new Sonys represent the image internally as a 1080p image, and convert it to that from whatever format the data arrives in.

Is there an issue with where the conversion is done? Can one piece of hardware do it better than another?

The reason I ask is that I was looking at the specs for the DirecTV HD TiVo. It says that it can output the HD in any of the various formats through 1080i. Is it possible that the Sony is better (or worse) at the conversion process than the TiVo? If the source material is 480p, for example, am I better off telling the TiVo to output it as 480p and have the Sony convert, or have the TiVo output it as 1080i?

I expect that this question reveals a lot of my misunderstandings. Any clues appreciated.

[QUOTE=rogo]
Oh, and let me say about the TVs: The screen is annoying. It's not horrible, but the veiling effect is there as is the sheen / sparkle.

Well,and so ends this chapter of the HD TV hunt... it seems.
Maybe im asking for too much..or wait for a three chip DLP.
Will have a look at em but sounds doubtful.
NB
PS whoever said the Sammys were crap is high on crack or is on the verge of glaucoma.
I side by sided it with a Qual. Some pixilation yes,but Dam close in quality of Picture.(about $7000.00 close) :D

Frig'in AWESOME PQ. Was like looking at a 60 in. tube. Great blacks
and contrast. The only source was Blu-Ray DVD so could not observe
anything but the best possible source material.

My Samsung has a comparable PQ if I turn on MOVIE mode and sit in
a darkened room. BUT the Sony set with full on ambient lighting
looked just as good or possibly even better. Literally like a 60 in.
CRT... AMAZING....

A physicist working with the SXRD technology gave a lecture on the technology
and explained why even though other LCOS companies vertically align an
inorganic layer which should give a theoritical "black" they have not been able
to do so. He would not disclose the trade secrets but they have to do with their
perfection of the semiconductor process.

They are going to take TI head on and believe they have them running scared!

And they are not done improving SXRD yet :-)

thank you very much for your impressions!

i guess i'm now talking for everyone: if anyone gets to see these sets at sony style please take one or two pictures - everything is appreciated :)

So far the reports are all favorable on the new SXRD sets. I doubt any set will be perfect and there will always be critical viewers who see things others don't. I'm very encouraged and am very excited about getting my new 60" set.

Tony - I was curious if you compared the Qualia with the 60" SXRD? I've heard that most still like the Qualia a tad better? This wouldn't be surprising since the Qualia is a no compromise set and may have better electronics inside.

To our high end experienced reviewers, ROGO, AlanBuck, Lew Black, R Harkness, that have witnessed and compared Plasma vs. SXRD. In case you see this posting please provide your feedback.

It seems we get a glowing feedback from the onset and then time passes and then a sort of reviewers remorse sets in discounting initial impressions. Is this true?

All things being equal would you choose the SXRD over the Panny 50PX500, Pioneer 5060, or a Hitachi 55HDT52 Plasma units? I actually have always liked plasma very much but wanted a minimum 55" but the Panny is becoming such a bargain and getting rave reviews from most it's hard to resist.

The fact I'm one of those viewers that falls asleep watching TV and my lamp is likely to burnout every year on a microdisplay and forking over $300 a year for bulbs on top of $5K. The larger screen provides more of an immersive feel but plasma prices are out of whack once you hit 60">.

During my in-store viewing I don't think I've observed the SSE on microdisplays the flaws I notice compared to quality plasma is inferior viewing angles and in some cases the microdisplay looks like a lit up box and a quality plasma looks more like a window your viewing into. I doubt the SXRD will have those negative issues but this SSE issue is troubling. It must be something you may not notice initially but with extended viewing it then becomes obvious.

Admittedly I am near sighted but I've never seen SDE or pixel structure on quality plasma's mentioned above beyond a 6' VD. In fact going back to the Pio 5040 I felt the PQ looked 3D on the Pio. The pio and panny camp have their loyalists.

Guess I'm going to have to park my rear again at the B&M to see if this SSE is for real to my eyes as I've got about 2 weeks or so to cancel my SXRD if it is an issue.

My goal is Immersive Viewing with WoW PQ and of course a set that arrives in working order which is one of the reasons I cancelled the Samsung 6768. Thanks for your input. Is this too much to ask for?

P.S. TonyDeluce - Thanks for the review - Did you observe SSE effects described on the SXRD? :D

Frig'in AWESOME PQ. Was like looking at a 60 in. tube. Great blacks and contrast. The only source was Blu-Ray DVD so could not observe
anything but the best possible source material.

My Samsung has a comparable PQ if I turn on MOVIE mode and sit in
a darkened room. BUT the Sony set with full on ambient lighting
looked just as good or possibly even better. Literally like a 60 in.
CRT... AMAZING....
I finally saw the Mits and Samsung pseudo 1080p with a quality HD source. Color and contrast were very good. Static pictures looked excellent. However artifacts popped their ugly head in scenes with motion. There was also some flashing in motion scenes. Of course the picture was grainier from the DLP dither too.

Given all of the technological obstacles to overcome, the DLP camp has actually done an outstanding job. But the fact is the artifacts, flashing and noise (not even speaking of rainbows) caused me to be repulsed. All these observations were confirmed by the salesman too. (He was actually pretty smart).

They are going to take TI head on and believe they have them running scared!
Which is why the DLP camp has been claiming 1080p performance when the display will not even accept 1080p (1920*1080@60fps). Note however, that the new HP DLP rear displays really do accept true 1080p inputs!
And they are not done improving SXRD yet :-)

As good as a value these new Sony SXRD displays may be, they too do not accept a digital input at their native resolution. If you plan to mate a Sony PS3 with this display, plan to be disappointed.

Westa it sounds like you're getting pre-order remorse. Don't let the SSE effect your deciscion. I had an A20 60" Sony and never saw it. I don't think you'll see it either. The Panny is a great set but it's not 1080P and you can still see noise in the picture. Plasma has a different kind of noise then RPTV's but it's their. I have a 43" Pioneer and am not impressed with the set. I actually liked my LCD A20 better. Plasmas also have glass screens so you have to contend with nasty reflections which my wife and daughter complain about all the time. Then you have the size factor. 50" is way too small for me and those extra 10" of vertical screen makes a huge difference. I'd stick with the SXRD and not let the SSE reports on the SXRD sets worry you.

Thanks a Bunch Homeguy - Your input makes sense - I also don't think I could not settle for a less than 60". I'll call my SonyStyle Store to see if they'll have one on display this weekend in Troy, MI Somerset Mall. Have a good day! :D

Some people like the pres.... :) Just kidding.

I don't find the A10s in league with the Panasonic plasmas. The SXRDs are in that league.

I was ready to buy the SXRD but that darned cabinet and that darned screen may just be too much for me...

The Panasonic plasma has been calling my name....

In spite of it all, I went ahead and grabbed an A-10 50 incher at Sam's Club yesterday. They have a pretty lenient return policy ( 'satisfaction guaranteed'...which seems subject to each employee's interpretation, but it is clear that you can bring back a TV for at least 90 days ), so I figured why not give one a try. The price on their web site, and at the store INCLUDES the matching stand...BUT nowhere is that mentioned on the web site...so their price is excellent. The 2 year (one extra year over Sony's) warranty is less than $70.00 too! I got the TV home, and it fits perfectly in my entertainment center. I have had a 42 inch GWIII for about a year, so I am well aware of the pros, and cons of the Sony LCD RPTV's. I watched the new one a lot last nite on various material, and let me say it is FAR superior to my GWIII for PQ, in spite of being a larger screen size. Letterman, and Leno looked amazing! MUCH better contrast, and blacks, and even shadow detail. I am really suprised at the improvement. All I have done so far is back the color control down from 50 to the mid 30's and it looks great. For some reason the preset color level on the A-10 looks like a cartoon. (Maybe Sony thinks it draws people to it at a store?) I still feel the Panny plasma is better, and from what I observed at CEDIA the 50 inch SXRD is also, but the A-10 is a MUCH better TV than I expected. I tried a Samsung HLP5063W a year ago, and let me tell you, this A-10 BLOWS IT AWAY! I returned the Samsung for the GWIII, because the Sammy had a very soft fuzzy picture, and rainbows were driving me nuts. I think I made the right move for now. If/when the SXRD 50 inch moves to the A-10 style cabinet, I may sell this one off, and upgrade again. I will continue to watch the SXRD threads and see how things are going for you guys. I think I can take a rest for a couple years now so far as shelling out cash..lol :)

I was looking at a 50" Panny plasma this afternoon and found the SDE (pixel structure) to be very noticeable, at least until 6-8' or more away. So what I don't quite understand is if someone thinks the SDE is bad on the 50" Sony A10 then why go with a plasma that is worse? Of course, the SSE (sparkles) on a plasma is non-existent (get a lot of glare/reflection instead). I'm not bashing the Panny plasmas, I actually do think they are very nice, but it seems that you trade one set of issues for another. A concern I would have is the possibility of humming or buzzing at 5,500' altitude but that may be more fiction than fact nowadays (though the five year-old Pioneer plasmas at my wife's office buzz loudly). I'm also concerned that there maybe insufficient space in my HT nook to enable good ventilation, especially immediately above where plasmas seem to emit the most heat. Plus, the wife does not like the plasma being set back 6" on the stand due to the protrudung feet out front. You just can't win! She's still petitioning to keep the 50A10.

Read my recent post and I decided to try the A-10 also, and in my home environment I love it so far! You are correct that the plasmas have some issues, as does every type TV.

P.S. Even though the room was full of lighting I did not notice
any reflections or glare but the screen looks really glossy so I
not sure exactly what kind of material they are using but
its really good...

It seems you must have viewed something other than the production gw sxrd sets. Reports from cedia were that the screen was a matte finish, I suspect this matte screen is also Responsible for the SSe/veiling/etc.

The glossy screen you describe seems to be in line with the screens that were on the sets pictured in the Pittsburgh press release a while back.

But as you subsequently pointed out, you were at an sxrd demonstration.

I wonder then, will the next model version use the glossy screen...it would seem that those looking for uncompromised pq will have to learn to accept a glossy screen?

I'm trying to get my head around the conversion process from one HDTV format to another. From what's been said, the new Sonys represent the image internally as a 1080p image, and convert it to that from whatever format the data arrives in.

Is there an issue with where the conversion is done? Can one piece of hardware do it better than another?

The reason I ask is that I was looking at the specs for the DirecTV HD TiVo. It says that it can output the HD in any of the various formats through 1080i. Is it possible that the Sony is better (or worse) at the conversion process than the TiVo? If the source material is 480p, for example, am I better off telling the TiVo to output it as 480p and have the Sony convert, or have the TiVo output it as 1080i?

I expect that this question reveals a lot of my misunderstandings. Any clues appreciated.

I have the HD Tivo and have a SXRD on order. I will try "both ways" and pick the one I like best. But, I expect the best result to be passing the native format out of the Tivo (i.e., 480i for standard definition, 720p for ABC, Fox, and ESPN, and 1080i for the rest). I say this because I expect the Sony to have better scaling than the Tivo: plus it makes sense that it is better to process the signal only at one point (the Sony always has to process to upgrade to 1080p). Unfortunately, the Tivo does not have the capability to pass "native format" without our intervention. We must use the Tivo "up arrow" to cycle through and select the correct format. Sort of a pain; however, I figure that I can take 2-3 seconds if required at the start of a program to select the correct format for the best picture.

Richard

westa6969,
Seems as if everyone is becoming just a little hesitant or unsure about which way to go. I know I am. My problem is I haven't seen a plasma that has amazed me as others have, yet I find myself leaning that way at times. But my question to you...if you could go with a smaller size, would you still choose the 50" SXRD over say a 50" panny plasma? Or does the difference in quality seem to become more evident only at say 60"?

westa6969,
Seems as if everyone is becoming just a little hesitant or unsure about which way to go. I know I am. My problem is I haven't seen a plasma that has amazed me as others have, yet I find myself leaning that way at times. But my question to you...if you could go with a smaller size, would you still choose the 50" SXRD over say a 50" panny plasma? Or does the difference in quality seem to become more evident only at say 60"?

I cannot say whether the 50 inch SXRD is better, or worse than the Panny plasma. They have DIFFERENT types of PQ for sure though. The plasma has more 'pop' to the pic, and a clearer look. The SXRD has the typical 'silk screen' sparkles on light areas of the screen...it is NOT quite 'CRT like' as some other person here claimed. The SXRD looks more like what you would see at a movie theatre, whereas the plasmas look more CRT-like. The plasmas have obvious pixels at close distances, and problems with screen reflections. The SXRD has neither of those issues. Shall be interesting to SEE both of them showing the same material together. As I stated right after CEDIA, the 50 inch SXRD was VERY nice, but I questioned whether it was worth the premium over the A-10. I went ahead and bought the A-10 last nite, and so far I am VERY pleased with it, and suprised how much better the PQ is than on my 42 inch GWIII. Should Sony eventually put the SXRD in a slim-design cabinet I may be tempted to upgrade again though...time will tell. As for the 60 inch model, the improvement afforded by SXRD versus 3LCD was much more obvious. The 60 inch 3LCD has pretty obvious screen door effect.

As good as a value these new Sony SXRD displays may be, they too do not accept a digital input at their native resolution. If you plan to mate a Sony PS3 with this display, plan to be disappointed.

ARe you totally postive about this?
Do any sets that are coming out this year do this yet? My guess Blue-Ray supported by Sony of course will be at 1080p and the PS3 will be coming out soon(6months or so)and I want the set i purchase to be ready for it.

Circuit City has the Sony SU-GW12 stand (that fits both the 50" and 60" SXRD's onsale (web only price) as of today. I don't know how long that sale is for. I won't show the price since it might be against the message board policy, but it is $60.00 off the normal price. Here is the link...

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=100659&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&BV_UseBVCookie=No#tabs


GEORGE: Thanks for the heads up that the Sony SU-GW12 stand fits both the 50", and 60."

EVERYONE: If I do go with SXRD, it'll be the 50" (as opposed to wanting the 60" before) (I know I'll appreciate it) until they come out with 60" models with 1080p inputs. Hey, its already way bigger than my 34" 16:9 tube. :) I'll probably lose the respect of you guys by not "researching" the TV in the store. But one thing is for sure, I definitely want to see this SSE "everybody" is talking about (wondering if the salesman will be able to point out to me).

-- Matthew

westa6969,
Seems as if everyone is becoming just a little hesitant or unsure about which way to go. I know I am. My problem is I haven't seen a plasma that has amazed me as others have, yet I find myself leaning that way at times. But my question to you...if you could go with a smaller size, would you still choose the 50" SXRD over say a 50" panny plasma? Or does the difference in quality seem to become more evident only at say 60"?

I am limited to 50" and I am having a difficult time choosing between the SXRD and the 50" Panny plasma. I haven't seen an XBR SXRD, but I have seen the qualia, and it looked very good. Still, I haven't seen anything that compares to an extremely high quality HDTV feed on a good plasma. I saw the Panasonic with the US Open last week and it looked stunning. There is a quality about plasmas that RPTVs can't match in my opinion. There are plenty of downsides, too. I'm not saying plasma is perfect, but with a good feed, far enough back to not see pixel structure, they look incredible to me.

For me, this is how it breaks down. These are the things are care about, not an exhaustive list.

SXRD +
+no burn-in/stretch modes
+more inputs including 2 hdmi
+higher res
+no glare

SXRD -
-The cabinet!
-really, won't fit as well in my room, it will have to stick out of a media niche, which the plasma will also have to stick out of, but is much thinner. (niche is only 40" wide).
-no decent PC inputs. This is a big one for me, not quite a deal breaker, but very dissapointing.
-SSE I can definitely see it on my father-in-law's GWIII, but it doesn't bother me too much.

Panasonic Commercial Plasma +
+Image quality. Excellent contrast. I'm interested in the SXRD over LCD for contrast, not resolution, so I don't mind the resolution drop much. At 12' for a 50" the resolution and SDE won't bother me. I think the contrast will be as good or better than the SXRD.
+Looks great and fits well in the room.
+Native rate no overscan PC inputs digital or analog (I think).

Panasonic -
-Glare
-Stretch modes, this is a big one, and would like to avoid this if possible. I'm hoping that within a few years there will be enough widescreen content, and the panel will be worn in long enough, that I will be able to stop using them (maybe with <25% 4:3 viewing). I think this is a realistic goal considering my viewing habits.
-SDE As I said above, at 12' I'm not too worried about this.
-Lack of inputs. The commercial model has much fewer inputs, although they are more flexible, still, although it won't be a problem to start, it concerns me for the future.
-Inability to stretch >480p signals. This is actually a pretty big concern to me. I like to send a lot of stuff (DVR, DVD) through a PC and that would all be unable to be stretched by the plasma. I don't have a widescreen tv now, so I'm not sure what's available on the PC as far as stretch modes, so it might not be a problem. Comcast cable box would also have to do the stretching for 4:3 hdtv signals. I don't think either of those pieces of equipment will do as good a job of stretching as the Panasonic.

Wow, that turned out long. It was nice to get all my thoughts written down. If anyone has other things, or any comments, please let me know. I'm really not sure which way to go.

By the way, in response to AkaStp about the stand protruding, this would be a big problem for me as well. I'm planing on building my own mount, maybe just out of a couple of pieces of corner angle bracket or something. They will go down the back of the plasma and than back along the stand. I will bolt them to the stand so the plasma doesn't tip forward. At the plasma I will attach them either directly to the plasma if possible, or to a wall mount on the plasma if there is a funny mounting system on the plasma that won't let me screw right into it. A couple of small holes in the stand under where a tv normally sits anyway is a small price to pay to avoid the extra depth the the plasma stand in the front.

I have been real busy for the last week, but I got an email from Sony today that may settle the question of Wega gate on the new SXRD's. I dont' know that it is a big issue, but I know it was being discussed a few days ago:

Grand Wega Technology for 2005


KDF-E42/50A10 KDF-E55/60A20 KDS-R50/60XBR1
3LCD Technology 3LCD Technology SXRD® Technology
WEGA Engine™ System WEGA Engine™ System WEGA Engine™ HD System
Cinema Black Pro ATSC Integrated Tuner with CableCARD™ Slot Cinema Black Pro
ATSC Integrated Tuner with CableCARD™ Slot WEGA GATE™ - Easy Operation Guide ATSC Integrated Tuner with CableCARD™ Slot
WEGA GATE™ - Easy Operation Guide HDMI (High Definition Multimedia Interface) WEGA GATE™ - Easy Operation Guide
PC Input PC Input
HDMI (High Definition Multimedia Interface) HDMI (High Definition Multimedia Interface)

Sorry, my cut and paste was scrambled when I pasted it. It is supposed to list Wega Gate with the XBR1's.

So, latest word is SXRD has the Wega Gate interface. Lew

My decission to go with 60' was based on the size when also considering a plasma. The plasma is too expensive for a 60 inch size. That said I have pre-order my 60 inch sxrd from tweeter and have told them that if I am not happy I will return. They were fine with that. I am also considering the SXRD Sony FP VW100, with information starting to come in. For 10K you can get an eight ft screen that rivals the 25-35K projectors in digital movie theaters.... count me in if the RP does not fill my expectations.

So far the reports are all favorable on the new SXRD sets. I doubt any set will be perfect and there will always be critical viewers who see things others don't. I'm very encouraged and am very excited about getting my new 60" set.

Tony - I was curious if you compared the Qualia with the 60" SXRD? I've heard that most still like the Qualia a tad better? This wouldn't be surprising since the Qualia is a no compromise set and may have better electronics inside.

The Sony SXRDs are MUCH better than the Qualia in my opinion particularly
if BL and CR is important to you ( and for anyone who watches film they certainly
should be ). I haven't seen them side by side but the Qualia may be a tad
sharper but I don't think anyone would notice this unless the sets were side
by side...

P.S. TonyDeluce - Thanks for the review - Did you observe SSE effects described on the SXRD? :D

I did not see SSE but they were playing a 5 minute Blu-Ray DVD over and
over again so had limited content to see...

Absolutely no SDE effect though...

Alan

I've got a 60" GWIII that I'm thinking about replacing with the 60" SXRD.

Can you tell us how your 42" GWIII differs from the 50" A10. Do you think the number of hours on the GWIII's bulb is a consideration??

Do you find the difference more evident at night with dim room lighting? Glowing blacks??

It seems you must have viewed something other than the production gw sxrd sets. Reports from cedia were that the screen was a matte finish, I suspect this matte screen is also Responsible for the SSe/veiling/etc.

The glossy screen you describe seems to be in line with the screens that were on the sets pictured in the Pittsburgh press release a while back.

But as you subsequently pointed out, you were at an sxrd demonstration.

I wonder then, will the next model version use the glossy screen...it would seem that those looking for uncompromised pq will have to learn to accept a glossy screen?

Interesting! You bring up a very good point.

I had a Sony VAIO TR3 laptop for a while and the screen remineded me of it.
Also did not see the XBR badge anywhere on the set but spent most of my
time checking out the picture.

The glossy screen made it look more like a CRT tube in my opinion - I really
liked it...

It may have been an "almost" production model. I asked if it was the 60in. SXRD
that would be shipping soon and I was told yes. It did have the dumbo ears...

For AkaStp and AlanBuck,

What about red push on the A10? Do you not notice it or does it not bother you? If you do notice it and it does bother you, how do you plan to deal with it? Can the consumer fix this by entering the service menu (don't know that the Tyro would have the guts to try that anyway, but....) or must you have it professionally calibrated? I don't mean this as a smarta$$ criticism of your choices; I honestly want your inputs on something that happens to bother me, as you can see below.

For those who have seen the SXRD xbr1:

Did you notice red push? Have to give Sony credit for honesty with their new badging (BRAVIA...Boosted Reds Are Valued Instead of Accuracy), but hope these sets don't warrant it.

Alan

I've got a 60" GWIII that I'm thinking about replacing with the 60" SXRD.

Can you tell us how your 42" GWIII differs from the 50" A10. Do you think the number of hours on the GWIII's bulb is a consideration??

Do you find the difference more evident at night with dim room lighting? Glowing blacks??

The pic on the A-10 is just more impressive, and pleasing overall than it ever was on my GWIII. I don't think the GWIII PQ has changed after a year of use, it had weaknesses right out of the box. The A-10 does blacks better (darker, and no funny colored tint to them), the picture has more snap to it (looks more contrasty), and darker scenes, and shadows look better. This is especially noticeable in dark room conditions. I used the Spiderman, and Seabiscuit DVD's to compare, since I was familiar with the scenes where the GWIII was less than pleasing. The A-10 isn't a perfect TV of course, but I would say it is VERY nice for the $$. I was honestly suprised at how pleasing the overall PQ is in my home. I can see the dynamic iris at work sometimes, but I would take that over the murky pic on the GWIII anyday. And recall that I bought a GWIII, because I returned a Sammy HLP-5063W that was truly mediocre. This A-10 is far, far superior to the Sammy DLP in my opinion.

I saw red push when I viewed the A10 in a couple of stores but have not noticed in the set I bought. To be honest, I had forgotten all about it until you mentioned. Fwiw, I have color temp set to Normal (default is Warm2).

I found that my dialing the color down to the mid-30's instead of the default of 50 made the flesh tones look very natural. It is probably a good idea to set the color temp a bit cooler also.

Frig'in AWESOME PQ. Was like looking at a 60 in. tube. Great blacks
and contrast. The only source was Blu-Ray DVD so could not observe
anything but the best possible source material.

My Samsung has a comparable PQ if I turn on MOVIE mode and sit in
a darkened room. BUT the Sony set with full on ambient lighting
looked just as good or possibly even better. Literally like a 60 in.
CRT... AMAZING....

A physicist working with the SXRD technology gave a lecture on the technology
and explained why even though other LCOS companies vertically align an
inorganic layer which should give a theoritical "black" they have not been able
to do so. He would not disclose the trade secrets but they have to do with their
perfection of the semiconductor process.

They are going to take TI head on and believe they have them running scared!

And they are not done improving SXRD yet :-)


"And they are not done improving SXRD yet"

Any clues what's down the road?

Thanks for the mouthwatering review.

Thanks to AkaStp and Alan Buck for your replies. I will use that info to set the A10 during final auditions.

(Even I couldn't tolerate the first renditon of that last sentence.)
(Ahhhhh...crap. Now I see I spelled replies "replys". Hope this is this idiot's last edit. Gee...for a two sentence post, I must have set some kind of record.)

"And they are not done improving SXRD yet"

Any clues what's down the road?

Thanks for the mouthwatering review.

Yeh, good question BU TAL. About a month or two ago in one of the Mits 1080p DLP threads, or a link to a article about the new Mits 1080p DLP's [can't remember right now], I believe Mits officially stated that they were (about) 6 months into development of their second gen 1080p DLP's.

TONY: Do you know how far in advance Sony is on next year's/second gen SXRD 's? Thanks.

I have been real busy for the last week, but I got an email from Sony today that may settle the question of Wega gate on the new SXRD's. I dont' know that it is a big issue, but I know it was being discussed a few days ago:

Grand Wega Technology for 2005


KDF-E42/50A10 KDF-E55/60A20 KDS-R50/60XBR1
3LCD Technology 3LCD Technology SXRD® Technology
WEGA Engine™ System WEGA Engine™ System WEGA Engine™ HD System
Cinema Black Pro ATSC Integrated Tuner with CableCARD™ Slot Cinema Black Pro
ATSC Integrated Tuner with CableCARD™ Slot WEGA GATE™ - Easy Operation Guide ATSC Integrated Tuner with CableCARD™ Slot
WEGA GATE™ - Easy Operation Guide HDMI (High Definition Multimedia Interface) WEGA GATE™ - Easy Operation Guide
PC Input PC Input
HDMI (High Definition Multimedia Interface) HDMI (High Definition Multimedia Interface)

Sorry, my cut and paste was scrambled when I pasted it. It is supposed to list Wega Gate with the XBR1's.

So, latest word is SXRD has the Wega Gate interface. Lew

Thank you for the encouraging update. It also lends credence to those who have said the currently posted user manual for the SXRD's on SonyStyle may not be the final version.

Also. this is the first time I noticed the Wega Engine **HD** System - an apparent upgrade from the other listed sets(?). Didn't think about it when I saw it in the Specs. I'm no techie, but curious if you or anyone knows how it differs from the Wega Engine System.

Much appreciated.

I might get me one of these and say good bye to my Samsung 5674

The current SXRDs aren't here yet and already we're speculating about the next year's/next generation? :eek:

Sorry. :D When I posted the question, I was just wondering how many months (if at all) they might be in development of next year's set. Wasn't actually thinking of what I wanted to see in the 2nd gen sets. The only thing the 2nd gen MUST have (while the priority) (for me at least), is 1080p inputs (PS3). No shiny bezel, etc.??? I'll get back to you on the screen once I see this year's model. :D

Frig'in AWESOME PQ.

Tony,

I was there last night also, and agree, the KDS-R60XBR1 looked phenomenal. Nothing I've seen under $10k can touch it. I'm writing a quick review on the talk for work; I'll post my full thoughts in a bit.

Lee

Tony,

I was there last night also, and agree, the KDS-R60XBR1 looked phenomenal. Nothing I've seen under $10k can touch it. I'm writing a quick review on the talk for work; I'll post my full thoughts in a bit.

Lee


Thanks Lee. Can't wait to read your impressions/opinions on the SXRD.

I might get me one of these and say good bye to my Samsung 5674

thanks for the picture! where did you get that?

The current SXRDs aren't here yet and already we're speculating about the next year's/next generation? :eek:

My thought exactly - and I was laughing at myself - after reading the comment by tonydeluce and posting. But, this incredibly changing tv tech scene has sensitized many of us - myself included - to how quickly what we buy, no matter how good it is, is "improved" upon around the next bend. Hence, the curiosity. :)

Originally Posted by Taker

I might get me one of these and say good bye to my Samsung 5674

That is some picture! Too bad she's wearing pasties. Glad to see Voom is back up and running. Sherman, set the Wayback Machine for 2004!

I have a "dumb" question that may have been answered in the past and I just don't recall.

All of this talk about a lack of 1080p input confuses me. I mean, when BluRay and PS3 hit the street and if they support 1080p, wouldn't these sets just convert 1080i to 1080p? Would there be a serious degradation in PQ in this case?

That is some picture! Too bad she's wearing pasties. Glad to see Voom is back up and running. Sherman, set the Wayback Machine for 2004!

:D Gotta love Sherman references :D

OK; here's my report. I had to write it up for work anyway, so I thought you all might appreciate it. Some things are intended for an audience less familiar with the technology, so sorry if it's a bit long-winded. I also lost the table formatting, so hopefuly that's legible.

Last night I attended the San Diego chapter SID (Society for Information Display) meeting at Sony in Rancho Bernardo. The talk was given by Jean-Pierre Guillou in Sony's Advanced Technology Planning Group. SXRD (Silicon Crystal Reflective Device) is Sony's trade name for their LCOS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon) microdisplay technology. Sony is relying heavily on this technology and is hoping it will restore them to prominence in consumer's minds with respect to display quality; i.e. they want it to be their Trinitron for the next decade.

The talk:

Jean-Pierre started by giving an overview of big-screen TV technology, discussing flat panel (LCD, Plasma) and the various projection technologies (DLP, HTPS LCD, LCOS) and highlighted the price advantage projection has when scaling to large screen sizes, since with projection, the image size is de-coupled from the display size.

He went through a brief tutorial on polarization and LCD operation, then described the typical optical architecture of a 3 panel HTPS AM-LCD projector, describing the arc lamp (and etendue limitations), fly's eye integrator, polarization conversion, dichroic mirrors and prism, and projection lens. He also mentioned the structure of the rear projection screen (Fresnel lens, lenticular array, and black matrix).

He spent some time discussing Sony's dynamic iris technology. This is a quickly adjustable iris diaphragm placed at the aperture stop of the projection lens. Although the contrast ratio of the panels is sufficient for any single image, often video has dark scenes. When the eye adapts to the dark scene, the absolute black level can be objectionable. The dynamic iris is linked to the display gamma so that when a dark scene is displayed, the iris stops down, which allows the full dynamic range of the display to used, lowering black level and maintaining contrast for all image content.

He then discussed the SXRD display in detail. The display, as previously mentioned, is LCOS. It uses a vertically aligned nematic liquid crystal with an inorganic alignment layer and normally black mode. The cell gap is less than 2um, and there are no spacers in the active area (perimeter seal only). The response time is less than 5ms and driving voltage of ~2V.

There are currently three generations of SXRD displays on the market. The first was that developed for the two high end Qualia products. The second is a much larger, extremely high resolution display. The third is the small display meant for consumer applications. The following table compares them:

Gen 1 Gen 2 Gen3
Display diagonal .78" 1.55" .61"
Resolution 1920x1080 4092x2160 1920x1080
Contrast Ratio >3000:1 >4000:1 5000:1
Pixel Pitch 9 um 8.5 um 7 um
Pixel Gap .35 um .35 um .35 um
Reflectivity 65% 72% 74%

Gen1 is what's in the Qualias. Gen 2 is for digital cinema and large venue projectors. Gen 3 is for the new XBR TV's.

Jean-Pierre made the point that in approximately one year's time Sony has migrated the SXRD technology from extremely expensive applications to consumer priced displays while simultaneously improving the performance.

After the talk, I spoke with Jean-Pierre and asked him about the optical architecture of the light engine and the possibility of single panel, color-sequential, operation of the devices. He stated that Sony has no desire to pursue color sequential operation for any product. He could not provide any information on the color management system; apparently Sony is doing something special they don't want divulged.

The TV

The TV on display was the new 60" which will be available soon (a 50" will be $1k cheaper):

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-wjHc4aC1O4v/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=147350&I=158SR60XBR

Imagery was provided by a prototype Blu-Ray disc player. The imagery was a Qualia Demo disc with typical HD scenery: nature scenes, glass blowing, bikinis. . .

All I can say is WOW! this is one of the best looking displays I've ever seen. No display selling under $10k that I've seen can touch this image quality; I was extremely impressed.

It was obvious to me that this display was very well calibrated. The color gamut was superb, yet the color decoding was very accurate. Objects which should be saturated had vivid intense color, yet flesh tones were rendered accurately and the display never looked 'cartoonish' like many consumer grade displays. Subtle shading, with no sign of contouring, was present on a brutally difficult image of a red anthurium flower; most TVs would simply turn this into a red blob.

Contrast was as good as could be judged with the lights on in the room; I saw absolutely no light leakage. The term 'inky blacks' certainly applies.

Even with my nose to the screen I could not see any 'screen-door effect'; the fill factor is that good. The image was sharp from corner to corner. Under such intense scrutiny, I did see some pixelation, as expected, but from a realistic viewing distance, the screen had the coveted 'film-like' appearance. Much more noticeable than any display limitations were digital compression artifacts; I did see mosquito noise around fine features, and macro-blocking on fast changing scenes. However, this was only evident close-up, and certainly due to the source; the prototype disc player may not have had been operating at full bit-rate.

I also was not able to properly judge geometry, but did not notice any signs of distortion.

The TV did have a couple of weaknesses. The first is the vertical screen gain found on all rear projection TV's. This should not be an issue as long as the viewer is not well above/below the screen. The only major fault I saw in the display was a bit (a pixel or so) of green/magenta separation at high contrast boundaries. With lack of proper images, I was not able to determine if this was mis-convergence of the green panel, or chromatic aberration in the projection lens. If not for this issue, I would consider the display nearly 'perfect'.



Lee

The A10 is a very nice set and is a bargain compared to the new SXRD sets. I compared the A10 to the 60" A20 when I was buying my set and I didn't see much of a difference. The A10 and A20 both have SDE but it's really not that noticeable at proper viewing distances. I also thought the contrast on these sets could be better but overall I loved my A20. With an HD feed these sets really shine and SDE become much less apparent. One of the reasons I wanted the SXRD was to get a better overal picture than the A20, to eliminate SDE all together, 1080P scaling and to get more inputs. If your patient you should be able to get the SXRD sets at 15-20% off MSRP in the next 60 days. These sets will sell fast but will also be discounted too. Crutchfield, Sears and the big box stores will sell them at a small discounts while online sellers will work on a much smaller markup. While the side speakers make the set wider then needed they also add an elegance to the set and I believe the side speakers will sound better then having the speakers set at the bottom of the set. If I had a choice I would have prefered side speakers with out the extra air space. In any event these new Sonys look great!

It really depends on your viewing distance.....I can't see the plasma pixels at what I consider a normal viewing distance...but I can see the SSE on the projection TV's at most any distance.

There's no such thing as a "normal" viewing distance, but if I'm sufficiently
distant to not see the pixel structure of a plasma, then another
bad effect kicks in...small screen. Of course I've only seen 50" plasmas with
1366x768 panels, but there is no distance such that there are no
visible pixels and at the same time, the screen appears large. I'm guessing that at the "no visible pixels"
point the screen height to viewing distance ratio is about 5:1, far from the ideal 3:1.
Theoretically, the higher pixel density of a given size plasma panel for a 1920x1080 panel would buy you an 'image quality-screen size' budget that you could spend in any proportion you wanted.


I can tell you that the SXRD has NO SDE at all, but the SSE is there at a similar level (maybe slightly lower) to the other SONY 3LCD RPTV's.

As always, each technology gives you something bad. I'll be interested to see
if the new plasmas mitigate the pixels.

Time to start a Sony SXRD 2006 Models Wish-list thread? ;)

:eek:

:eek:

:cool: Love all of the early reviews, pictures, impressions, thanks to all contributors I can’t wait to see it for myself. Any word yet in NY? Bendover? Sony Store?

But all of this chatter here has me re thinking everything. I am still intrigued with these SXRDs and as I said- I want to see one in person before I make any decisions.

I am not in a desperate situation to purchase right away, so I can wait—a bit. My “problem” is that I want something for the long haul. I am not interested in reselling today’s purchase tomorrow. I don’t think that’s a crazy notion. I realize this technology continuously “progresses” but there has to be a compromise out there somewhere. I want something great that will last for several years. Is that insane? Ha, look who I’m asking. You guys are already on to the next thing. :D

Thanks for the informative review. I hope the macro blocking on fast scenes was the player and not the display. I saw macro blocking on the JVC and it was pretty bad. The A20 next to it had none that I could see on the same HD loop.

So nobody has been over to the Little Guys in Chicago area to check the TV out yet? Darn if I was in town today I'd be headed over there now to take a look.

OK, I just got back from the Sony store in NYC and they do not yet have any GW SXRD sets; they don't anticipate them until *maybe* the end of next week.

While I was there I decided to take a look at the A10 and the A20 that is being discussed so much in here. My impression/reaction, I'm not sure whether or not the new GW SXRD will as good or better than the Q006, but these A10s and A20s (at least the sets displayed at Sony's high end showroom) don't even come close to the PQ of the Q006.

The 955 was a much better picture, IMO. The A10/A20's picture was very soft and SDE was very noticeable to me, and I was never one to really notice that before...before being spoiled by my Q006 viewing I suppose. Could it have been the feed, sure, but I popped into the Q006 viewing room and asked the cierge to put the same source on the Q as was being played throughout the rest of the showroom and I confirmed that it wasn't the source since it looked as good as I would expect to see at my own home.

AlanBuck, you've apparently seen the new GW SXRDs and the A10/A20s side-by-side, were the differences really not that apparent to you? If not, I fear that the new GW SXRDs must be very inferior to the Q006.

I am now very eager to see the GW SXRDs, hopefully next week...

I am now very eager to see the GW SXRDs, hopefully next week...

Thanks, another good report—as the suspense continues to build.

OK; here's my report. I had to write it up for work anyway, so I thought you all might appreciate it. Some things are intended for an audience less familiar with the technology, so sorry if it's a bit long-winded. I also lost the table formatting, so hopefuly that's legible.

Last night I attended the San Diego chapter SID (Society for Information Display) meeting at Sony in Rancho Bernardo. The talk was given by Jean-Pierre Guillou in Sony's Advanced Technology Planning Group. SXRD (Silicon Crystal Reflective Device) is Sony's trade name for their LCOS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon) microdisplay technology. Sony is relying heavily on this technology and is hoping it will restore them to prominence in consumer's minds with respect to display quality; i.e. they want it to be their Trinitron for the next decade.

The talk:

Jean-Pierre started by giving an overview of big-screen TV technology, discussing flat panel (LCD, Plasma) and the various projection technologies (DLP, HTPS LCD, LCOS) and highlighted the price advantage projection has when scaling to large screen sizes, since with projection, the image size is de-coupled from the display size.

He went through a brief tutorial on polarization and LCD operation, then described the typical optical architecture of a 3 panel HTPS AM-LCD projector, describing the arc lamp (and etendue limitations), fly's eye integrator, polarization conversion, dichroic mirrors and prism, and projection lens. He also mentioned the structure of the rear projection screen (Fresnel lens, lenticular array, and black matrix).

He spent some time discussing Sony's dynamic iris technology. This is a quickly adjustable iris diaphragm placed at the aperture stop of the projection lens. Although the contrast ratio of the panels is sufficient for any single image, often video has dark scenes. When the eye adapts to the dark scene, the absolute black level can be objectionable. The dynamic iris is linked to the display gamma so that when a dark scene is displayed, the iris stops down, which allows the full dynamic range of the display to used, lowering black level and maintaining contrast for all image content.

He then discussed the SXRD display in detail. The display, as previously mentioned, is LCOS. It uses a vertically aligned nematic liquid crystal with an inorganic alignment layer and normally black mode. The cell gap is less than 2um, and there are no spacers in the active area (perimeter seal only). The response time is less than 5ms and driving voltage of ~2V.

There are currently three generations of SXRD displays on the market. The first was that developed for the two high end Qualia products. The second is a much larger, extremely high resolution display. The third is the small display meant for consumer applications. The following table compares them:

Gen 1 Gen 2 Gen3
Display diagonal .78" 1.55" .61"
Resolution 1920x1080 4092x2160 1920x1080
Contrast Ratio >3000:1 >4000:1 5000:1
Pixel Pitch 9 um 8.5 um 7 um
Pixel Gap .35 um .35 um .35 um
Reflectivity 65% 72% 74%

Gen1 is what's in the Qualias. Gen 2 is for digital cinema and large venue projectors. Gen 3 is for the new XBR TV's.

Jean-Pierre made the point that in approximately one year's time Sony has migrated the SXRD technology from extremely expensive applications to consumer priced displays while simultaneously improving the performance.

After the talk, I spoke with Jean-Pierre and asked him about the optical architecture of the light engine and the possibility of single panel, color-sequential, operation of the devices. He stated that Sony has no desire to pursue color sequential operation for any product. He could not provide any information on the color management system; apparently Sony is doing something special they don't want divulged.

The TV

The TV on display was the new 60" which will be available soon (a 50" will be $1k cheaper):

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-wjHc4aC1O4v/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=147350&I=158SR60XBR

Imagery was provided by a prototype Blu-Ray disc player. The imagery was a Qualia Demo disc with typical HD scenery: nature scenes, glass blowing, bikinis. . .

All I can say is WOW! this is one of the best looking displays I've ever seen. No display selling under $10k that I've seen can touch this image quality; I was extremely impressed.

It was obvious to me that this display was very well calibrated. The color gamut was superb, yet the color decoding was very accurate. Objects which should be saturated had vivid intense color, yet flesh tones were rendered accurately and the display never looked 'cartoonish' like many consumer grade displays. Subtle shading, with no sign of contouring, was present on a brutally difficult image of a red anthurium flower; most TVs would simply turn this into a red blob.

Contrast was as good as could be judged with the lights on in the room; I saw absolutely no light leakage. The term 'inky blacks' certainly applies.

Even with my nose to the screen I could not see any 'screen-door effect'; the fill factor is that good. The image was sharp from corner to corner. Under such intense scrutiny, I did see some pixelation, as expected, but from a realistic viewing distance, the screen had the coveted 'film-like' appearance. Much more noticeable than any display limitations were digital compression artifacts; I did see mosquito noise around fine features, and macro-blocking on fast changing scenes. However, this was only evident close-up, and certainly due to the source; the prototype disc player may not have had been operating at full bit-rate.

I also was not able to properly judge geometry, but did not notice any signs of distortion.

The TV did have a couple of weaknesses. The first is the vertical screen gain found on all rear projection TV's. This should not be an issue as long as the viewer is not well above/below the screen. The only major fault I saw in the display was a bit (a pixel or so) of green/magenta separation at high contrast boundaries. With lack of proper images, I was not able to determine if this was mis-convergence of the green panel, or chromatic aberration in the projection lens. If not for this issue, I would consider the display nearly 'perfect'.



Lee

Would you descibe the screen as glossy or matte? It reminded me of the screen
on my Sony Vaio TR3 laptop which is glossy but with minimal reflections. Just want to make sure I wasn't seeing things...

"And they are not done improving SXRD yet"

Any clues what's down the road?

Thanks for the mouthwatering review.

He didn't provide many details here. He did comment on how much improvement
there has been since the Qualia 06/04 both in cost and BL/CR improvements
and that they were not finished improving SXRD yet...

Yeh, good question BU TAL. About a month or two ago in one of the Mits 1080p DLP threads, or a link to a article about the new Mits 1080p DLP's [can't remember right now], I believe Mits officially stated that they were (about) 6 months into development of their second gen 1080p DLP's.

TONY: Do you know how far in advance Sony is on next year's/second gen SXRD 's? Thanks.

No. But I do know there wil be 50 in. , 60 in., and 70 in. for sure and that it
will have 1080p over HDMI and is targeted for summer 2006. They did
not discuss this at last night's meeting but have been informed of this by
another contact.

If not, I fear that the new GW SXRDs must be very inferior to the Q006.

No way. I saw the 006 in the Sony store in San Diego and was somewhat underwhelmed. It was playing a DVD and the picture settings must have been messed with because it just did not look good; over saturated and edge enhanced. I didn't stick around long enough to see a HD feed or mess with it, but it was a shame to see it like that.

As I said earlier, the 60" XBR SXRD playing Blu-Ray I saw at the Sony research facility last night looked great. My only concern was the slight misconvergence and/or chromatic aberration, but I'm hoping that this was due to it being an early demo unit. When some of Sony's personnel saw me looking at it this effect, they gathered around to point at it. The impression I got was that is not typical.

Admittedly these are not side by side comparisons and used different source material, but I think the new SXRDs are at least as good as the Qualia, far superior to any HTPS LCD RP.

No way. I saw the 006 in the Sony store in San Diego and was somewhat underwhelmed. It was playing a DVD and the picture settings must have been messed with because it just did not look good; over saturated and edge enhanced. I didn't stick around long enough to see a HD feed or mess with it, but it was a shame to see it like that.

As I said earlier, the 60" XBR SXRD playing Blu-Ray I saw at the Sony research facility last night looked great. My only concern was the slight misconvergence and/or chromatic aberration, but I'm hoping that this was due to it being an early demo unit. When some of Sony's personnel saw me looking at it this effect, they gathered around to point at it. The impression I got was that is not typical.

Admittedly these are not side by side comparisons and used different source material, but I think the new SXRDs are at least as good as the Qualia, far superior to any HTPS LCD RP.

i have played around with the Qualia with varous sources and the Qualia "may"
have a slightly sharper picture but is definitely INFERIOR when it comes to
BL and CR and overall "pop". I would take the 60in. Sony SXRD over the Qualia 06
even if the Sony SXRD cost more..

[COLOR=Black]No way. I saw the 006 in the Sony store in San Diego and was somewhat underwhelmed. It was playing a DVD and the picture settings must have been messed with because it just did not look good; over saturated and edge enhanced. I didn't stick around long enough to see a HD feed or mess with it, but it was a shame to see it like that.

As I said earlier, the 60" XBR SXRD playing Blu-Ray I saw at the Sony research facility last night looked great. My only concern was the slight misconvergence and/or chromatic aberration, but I'm hoping that this was due to it being an early demo unit. When some of Sony's personnel saw me looking at it this effect, they gathered around to point at it. The impression I got was that is not typical.

Admittedly these are not side by side comparisons and used different source material, but I think the new SXRDs are at least as good as the Qualia, far superior to any HTPS LCD RP.

I am certainly hoping that this is the case, otherwise I will be disappointed. My comment was due to the fact that people that have been anxiously awaiting the SXRD sets suddenly seem to be abandoning them after seeing them (well, at least some saw them) at CEDIA and abandoning them in favor of the A10/A20 which as I said, I didn't think looked good...I certainly would choose plasma over the A10/A20s, if money were not an issue. Maybe that is it, the cost differential?

Would you descibe the screen as glossy or matte? It reminded me of the screen
on my Sony Vaio TR3 laptop which is glossy but with minimal reflections. Just want to make sure I wasn't seeing things...

Hard to say; I didn't look specifically at screen reflections, however, it was a fairly bright room, and I did not notice any strong specular reflections, like you see off a glass CRT or plasma.

[COLOR=Black]
I certainly would choose plasma over the A10/A20s, if money were not an issue. Maybe that is it, the cost differential?

I agree, with the way Plasma prices have fallen, LCOS is the only RP technology I would consider. I guess I'm lucky that I still have 20/15 vision in my mid thirties, but I would not consider LCD RP because of the SDE; I don't have to be on top of the screen for it to bother me.

Hard to say; I didn't look specifically at screen reflections, however, it was a fairly bright room, and I did not notice any strong specular reflections, like you see off a glass CRT or plasma.

One of the things that really amazed me was how bright the image was even
though the room had a great deal of ambient lighting. I have to sit in the dark
with my Sammy 6168 to get the same level of brightneess ( in order to
keep the BL and CR at the same time ).

No. But I do know there wil be 50 in. , 60 in., and 70 in. for sure and that it
will have 1080p over HDMI and is targeted for summer 2006. They did
not discuss this at last night's meeting but have been informed of this by
another contact.

Appreciate the help. Your comment about TARGETED for Summer 2006, do you think your contact meant (more like) Fall. I just looked at the calendar for this year, and Fall begins Sept. 22nd, and September is when Sony usually releases their new TV's, right? Hope this question makes sense. :) Thanks.

Found this .jpg on another website, alleged to have been taken at CEDIA. Shows reflections, particularly relating to the polished bezel. There may also be a continuation of the reflection that is on the lower right bezel area into the screen area, on the back of the hooded person. It's the 50" set.

FWIW. Have fun (?) analyzing and then tell me I shouldn't worry.

Thanks to everyone above for their responses to my queries and for the reviews.

Appreciate the help. Your comment about TARGETED for Summer 2006, do you think your contact meant (more like) Fall. I just looked at the calendar for this year, and Fall begins Sept 22nd, and September is when Sony usually releases their new TV's, right? Hope this question makes sense. :) Thanks.

I was told summer on the 70 in. but who knows - at this point we are so
far off a quarter one way or other is probably anybody's best guess...

Found this .jpg on another website, alleged to have been taken at CEDIA. Shows reflections, particularly relating to the polished bezel. There may also be a continuation of the reflection that is on the lower right bezel area into the screen area, on the back of the hooded person. It's the 50" set.

FWIW. Have fun (?) analyzing and then tell me I shouldn't worry.

Thanks to everyone above for their responses to my queries and for the reviews.

Wow. Good find on the pic. The reflective bezel though, :( :mad:

I have a "dumb" question that may have been answered in the past and I just don't recall.

All of this talk about a lack of 1080p input confuses me. I mean, when BluRay and PS3 hit the street and if they support 1080p, wouldn't these sets just convert 1080i to 1080p? Would there be a serious degradation in PQ in this case?

BluRay should be fine, as long as the set does the proper de-interlacing and 3:2 pulldown on the 1080i feed, it will be able to recreate the original 1080p24 source perfectly. Now that we've had several reviews of the new SXRD from CEDIA and from this demonstration last night using a BluRay player, I think we can assume the set handles 1080i from BluRay properly.

The PS3 may be another matter, but only for games in 1080p60. Those will have to be converted to 1080i or 720p and will lose some resolution. How much of a difference that will make in PQ is hard to say.

Would you descibe the screen as glossy or matte? It reminded me of the screen
on my Sony Vaio TR3 laptop which is glossy but with minimal reflections. Just want to make sure I wasn't seeing things...

According to that post, the set that was demo'd sounds like it had a lenticular rather than a diffusion screen.

He also mentioned the structure of the rear projection screen (Fresnel lens, lenticular array, and black matrix).

It's hard to get a bead on what exactly the screen on these sets will be. If it's lenticular rather than diffusion, then there shouldn't be nearly as much SSE visible (Zues, don't start....) Yet the people who saw the sets at CEDIA reported a matte screen and noticable SSE. Is it possible Sony is showing sets with both kinds of screens? I'm just waiting to see one of these in a store so I can tell once and for all what kind of screen it'll actually ship with.

Found this .jpg on another website, alleged to have been taken at CEDIA. Shows reflections, particularly relating to the polished bezel. There may also be a continuation of the reflection that is on the lower right bezel area into the screen area, on the back of the hooded person. It's the 50" set.
.

Thanks for the picture.

:eek: It looks like my shower door… or a towel rack on its side

Damn those Dumbos! :mad:

Those wings!! :mad:

Those donkey ears (or whatever that mule was called a billion pages ago)!!! :mad:

I was told summer on the 70 in. but who knows - at this point we are so
far off a quarter one way or other is probably anybody's best guess...

Technically, summer ends Sept. 21. If this year's SXRDs show up in stores by next Wednesday, then Sony can say they delivered them in Summer 2005.

Technically, summer ends Sept. 21. If this year's SXRDs show up in stores by next Wednesday, then Sony can say they delivered them in Summer 2005.

Your right EMPIRE. My bad. Meant that Fall begins Sept. 22 (SUMMER ENDS Sept. 21). Thanks.

wleehendrick

Very good report. Thanks for the effort.


I do have concerns about the misconvergence/chromatic abberation (whichever), blacks in darkened viewing rooms (most these sets look fine in bright rooms), dark content performance (bright content isn't the problem) and SD performance(we still have content in SD). I think I could get past the side speakers objection if these other issues were put to rest.

September is when Sony usually releases their new TV's, right? .

The A20/A10 Series was released in June and July = Summer. The SXRD series was originally announced for October (60") and November (50"), I guess before the competition heated up.

According to that post, the set that was demo'd sounds like it had a lenticular rather than a diffusion screen.



It's hard to get a bead on what exactly the screen on these sets will be. If it's lenticular rather than diffusion, then there shouldn't be nearly as much SSE visible (Zues, don't start....) Yet the people who saw the sets at CEDIA reported a matte screen and noticable SSE. Is it possible Sony is showing sets with both kinds of screens? I'm just waiting to see one of these in a store so I can tell once and for all what kind of screen it'll actually ship with.

EMPIRE:

Your comment about Sony possibly having 2 different types of screens :eek: for the SXRD may be just right. I BELIEVE one of the guys (fellow forum member) (forgive me [to the person who said it too], can't remember) that the SXRD they saw at CEDIA had a different screen then they saw on a SXRD somwhere else.

Is this true of all Cable tuners? I'm thinking of the Motorola 6412 which can record two HD channels at once. I figured that this would mean that I could hook the SXRD up to both tuners and get PIP. My biggest debate right now is that I want a TV that can do PIP in HD and that is why I'm leaning towards the SXRD. I'd go for the A-10 but, as I understand it, can't do PIP.

Please correct me if I'm wrong or misinformed.

Ski

Ok, forget about set-top boxes for a moment. Suppose you use the 2 RF inputs at the back of the set. In that configuration, you need 2 tuners for PIP. And in this case, only one can do HD.

With a set-top box, you're hooked to a video input on the TV, right ? If that Motorola box you mentioned has 2 HD tuners and outputs for each of them, I suppose you could hook it up to 2 different HD video inputs. Wonder if the PIP accepts 2 HD video inputs at the same time. Worth a shot if someone here can try it. Or I will at some point (cannot at the moment).

Hope that helps.

It's hard to get a bead on what exactly the screen on these sets will be. If it's lenticular rather than diffusion, then there shouldn't be nearly as much SSE visible (Zues, don't start....) Yet the people who saw the sets at CEDIA reported a matte screen and noticable SSE. Is it possible Sony is showing sets with both kinds of screens? I'm just waiting to see one of these in a store so I can tell once and for all what kind of screen it'll actually ship with.

It's as mentioned above. Lenticular. I suspect a lot of the SSE seen at Cedia had to do with the surrounding environment and typical exhibition lighting. Doesn't meant there's no SSE on these sets, but the screen is not diffusion.

I think people cannot justify the extra money for the SXRD right now is what's happening..face it guys.. $1500 bucks extra for a picture that while is in a league ahead of the A10/20... is going to keep advancing each and every year/generation. If you save those $1500 for 3 yrs, you can buy the equivalent A10 3 yrs down which will have a mature SXRD... :)

It's all relative. You have to decide and make your purchase at some point because there's always something better around the corner. What I really want is and SED or FED but since SED is really at least two years away from realistic pricing for me and FED probably a year after that, the SXRD will do me just fine in the interim.

That is unless the Pro model D-ILAs can hold their own... :D

I'm fence sitting at the moment (50A10 or 50" SXRD) and so listening to reports from CEDIA, Sony technical conferences, and new owners will help a great deal - THANKS TO ALL for their reports. So far I'm still finding it hard to justify the $1500.00 price increase for the 50" SXRD BUT if SXRD prices from big box retailers drop 15% 60 days after these sets become available, that may make it easier to justify the SXRD purchase over the A10. Please let us know of any price drops from the big box retailers or PM me - I live on the Massachusetts/NH border.

I'm holding out for the ~3k price as well (or close). Some online retailers already have it listed at 12.5% off MSRP. ;)

To our high end experienced reviewers, ROGO, AlanBuck, Lew Black, R Harkness, that have witnessed and compared Plasma vs. SXRD. In case you see this posting please provide your feedback.

[/B] :D

Sorry westa, but I haven't seen the newer sxrds, just the 006 Qualia, but I presume the new sxrds will produce a very similar viewing experience.

I think my two favourite displays at this point are the Sony Qualia 006 and the Panasonic 65" plasma. (I haven't seen the yet-to-be-released Panasonic 65" 1080p plasma, though).

I'm loathe to say "X display is better than Y," especially when comparing two technologies, as each not only has it's technical pluses and minuses - each produce their own "gestalt" viewing experience. I happen to find a great plasma to be the most natural, comfortable viewing experience, one reason being the perfectly even illumination. Something about not worrying about my position relative to the display, and not noticing any hot-spotting, shiftiness or unevenness just relaxes my shoulders and allows me to "believe" all the better. But for others, of course, there will be things about plasma that they find distracting (e.g. some people notice the SDE more than most).

I find the Sony Qualia to not only produce in incredible image, but it also strikes me as pretty much the most relaxed, natural, comfortable viewing experience of any RPTV (for me). I tend to prefer a great CRT RPTV to the digital cousins for various reasons, except that I tend to be too aware of the beamy quality. The Sony Qualia just seems more evenly illuminated, less "shifty," and while it's brightness changes a bit when you move to the sides/up or down, it drops off smoothly (not beamy) so I find it pretty agreeable on that count too. (As RPTVs go...I do notice uneven illumination falling off to the sides of the image, on the Qualia, when a brighter image fills the screen, but for some reason it bothers me less, and intrudes less, than when I'm watching other RPTVs).

I sure can't tell you which "gestalt" you will prefer over-all; the more filmic look of the Sony or the punchier, vibrancy of the plasma. But if you DO find yourself beguiled at all by the Sony, it seems like a good bet to me. Even though the Panasonic prices have come down, 10" more inches of screen size (Sony 60" vs Panasonic 50"plasma) is nothing to sneeze at. It really will make viewing more immersive, and movies more cinematic. (I don't know how the Sony would fit in your room, vs a plasma).

I myself would struggle mightily with that dilemma and, despite my jones for plasma I might end up going for the Sony if those were my two choices. ( 'Course, at this point I intend to hold on to my pennies and attempt to "get it all" when the 65" 1080p Panasonic comes out...and it will apparently accept 1080p input by next summer).

Tough choice. Best of luck.

Ok, forget about set-top boxes for a moment. Suppose you use the 2 RF inputs at the back of the set. In that configuration, you need 2 tuners for PIP. And in this case, only one can do HD.

With a set-top box, you're hooked to a video input on the TV, right ? If that Motorola box you mentioned has 2 HD tuners and outputs for each of them, I suppose you could hook it up to 2 different HD video inputs. Wonder if the PIP accepts 2 HD video inputs at the same time. Worth a shot if someone here can try it. Or I will at some point (cannot at the moment).

Hope that helps.



It's as mentioned above. Lenticular. I suspect a lot of the SSE seen at Cedia had to do with the surrounding environment and typical exhibition lighting. Doesn't meant there's no SSE on these sets, but the screen is not diffusion.

I have not had that model you speak of but have had alot of others and here is my thoughts. Moto 6402 or something like that atl 8000 and 8300hd

Out of all three i have delt with above none of them had dual component outputs. They all had component and dvi/hdmi and none of the would have both enabled at the same time.

When they say dual-tuner PIP they mean that you can record one show while you watch another (ie the box is recieving 2 signals at one time). The PIP is handled completely by the box and your tv never switches inputs.

Even though the Panasonic prices have come down, 10" more inches of screen size (Sony 60" vs Panasonic 50"plasma) is nothing to sneeze at. It really will make viewing more immersive, and movies more cinematic. (I don't know how the Sony would fit in your room, vs a plasma).

.

I'm not sure why you're comparing the 60 inch SXRD to the 50 inch Panny plasma.
The 50 inch Panny can be had for even *less* than the 50 inch SXRD. :confused:

I'm not sure why you're comparing the 60 inch SXRD to the 50 inch Panny plasma.
The 50 inch Panny can be had for even *less* than the 50 inch SXRD. :confused:

Because westa specifically requested that I answer the question:

All things being equal would you choose the SXRD over the Panny 50PX500...?

The Panny 50PX500 is a 50" plasma. He's wondering if it's worth going for the extra screen size (and perhaps other qualitative differences) of the 60" SXRD. Certainly a reasonable question.

BluRay should be fine, as long as the set does the proper de-interlacing and 3:2 pulldown on the 1080i feed, it will be able to recreate the original 1080p24 source perfectly. Now that we've had several reviews of the new SXRD from CEDIA and from this demonstration last night using a BluRay player, I think we can assume the set handles 1080i from BluRay properly.

Could someone suggest a web site or document somewhere that explains the various conversions in enough detail that I can actually understand what's going, as opposed to the dumed-down end consumer descriptions, yet not at the level of programming a DSP to do the conversions? 8-)

What makes this harder to understand is when a product is described as 1080i, or 1080p, with mentioning the frame rates. For example, I'd like to understand the concept of 3:2 pulldown. I'm guessing it's related to the 24fps movies versus 30fps TV rates?

Clues sought.

Thanks,
-- Ethan

I don't know about anyone else but that CEDIA pic looks more like an SD Channel - on my PC I see a very grainy PQ - Not a Pic I'd want as a testimonial.

Does it look grainy to anyone else? It almost looks as if someone purposely turned it to an SD channel to take the photo as it looks pretty crappy on my Sony LCD Monitor anyways. Hopefully it's just a bad photo rather than a true source.

Also, I thank everyone for their feedback to my questions this morning - much appreciated! :)

The pic Westa6969 refers to does appear very grainy to me, also. Hopefully it was the photo or it was an SD channel for some reason.... Of course, if it was a true representation of SXRD PQ it would make my choice between plasma and SXRD much easier.

Looks like digital camera noise. Camera probably boosted ISO in low light condition.

Nice summary with LOTS of photos of new stuff at Cedia by Jason Turk. Sorry, nothing on SXRD RPTV's, but some on new SXRD FP. Worth a look while we bide our time here.

Cedia Report 2005 Sticky (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=580093)

Found this .jpg on another website, alleged to have been taken at CEDIA. Shows reflections, particularly relating to the polished bezel. There may also be a continuation of the reflection that is on the lower right bezel area into the screen area, on the back of the hooded person. It's the 50" set.

FWIW. Have fun (?) analyzing and then tell me I shouldn't worry.

Thanks to everyone above for their responses to my queries and for the reviews.


Reflections on the bezel isn't as bothersome as the reflections on the screen.
Generally, the picture looks like it was taken with Maxwell Smart's shoephone. Really sucks. The only think of any value that I could tell was that there was definately gradation of shades in the guys suit in what otherwise looks like a dark picture. :)

I don't know about anyone else but that CEDIA pic looks more like an SD Channel - on my PC I see a very grainy PQ - Not a Pic I'd want as a testimonial.

Yea them pics look crappy :mad:... Talk about red-push... Im sure color accuracy will be awesome once home and adjusted.... This is one of Sonys Strong points...Color(skin-tone) accuracy...

After seeing the Qualia, i dont thin skin-tones will take years to perfect like the Lcds...They got it right from the start...

The Panny 50PX500 is a 50" plasma. He's wondering if it's worth going for the extra screen size (and perhaps other qualitative differences) of the 60" SXRD. Certainly a reasonable question.


Hell yea the 60 is the way to go....Imo 55 is the smallest id ever settle for...

Could someone suggest a web site or document somewhere that explains the various conversions in enough detail that I can actually understand what's going, as opposed to the dumed-down end consumer descriptions, yet not at the level of programming a DSP to do the conversions? 8-)

What makes this harder to understand is when a product is described as 1080i, or 1080p, with mentioning the frame rates. For example, I'd like to understand the concept of 3:2 pulldown. I'm guessing it's related to the 24fps movies versus 30fps TV rates?

Clues sought.

Thanks,
-- Ethan

Solomita,
I found the explanations at the following link useful in understanding what happens (or what is supposed to happen) and why in the process of converting Interlaced video to Progressive. The information is for the purpose of explaining why, DVD Players that output progressively, have the potential to offer a better picture. Similar video processing capability would be required of a Display HDTV if it were fed a Resolution less than what the HDTV displayed natively so the info applies for Video Processing in HDTV's as well.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html

It's called JPEG compression and the limitation of digital camera technology. I mean give me a break guys, if you are basing the PQ off of some 30k jpg images you're losing it :D

Our immovable seating position is 16', though the kids are often MUCH closer.

FINALLY!!!! Someone who has seating with about the same distance as me. I currently have a 53 inch videoscope XBR. I sit 17 feet from the screen. I don't think i would want to sit any closer. I have a sunken den. The kitchen overlooks my den. When sitting at the kitchen table, we are a whooping 37 feet from the t.v; WannaBinHD, i have a question for you, how high is your t.v? My current t.v. sits on a table that is 24 inches high. I'm having a table built for the 60 inch SXRD. It's height is 41 inches. That will give the t.v. a total height of 80 inches. Does anyone feel this is too high? We really need a 70 inch set but don't want to pay that much money for a Quilia. I have looked at other 70 inch sets but i'm a Sony guy. I've had great success with Sony, no need to change now.
Snoop

I don't know about anyone else but that CEDIA pic looks more like an SD Channel - on my PC I see a very grainy PQ - Not a Pic I'd want as a testimonial.I agree, the set looks horrible in that pic. In an attempt to rectify this situation, I am attaching two pics of the 50 incher that I stumbled across purely by accident. These pics are much better, and I think they fully do the set justice.

What is the difference between a lenticular screen and a diffusion screen and how does one have more or less SSE (sparkles) than the other (Zues, don't start ;-)

I don't know what the exact difference is in terms of materials or construction. I believe the diffusion screen that is used on most microdisplays scatters the light that hits it somewhat to expand viewing angles, at the expense of SSE. Lenticular screens, which are mostly used in CRT RPTVs as far as I know, don't do this. This may be why CRT RPTVs don't have SSE (at least I've never seen it on one) but have more limited viewing angles. The viewing angles on the SXRD sound as good as any microdisplay though, so maybe this new screen is some kind of compromise between lenticular and a standard diffusion screen.

you guys can't be serious about judging a tv based on amateur shots of an expo show floor demo...

17' quite a distance. You definitely need something 65 inches+. ;) When I move in a couple months, our basement won't allow for more than a 9' viewing distance so there's not much difference. My wife doesn't even care if the tv size gets larger than what we have now. :eek: I was quite taken back by that one today.

The only problem now is cost. Even at 20% off, I'm not willing to spend 4K on the 60".

Great shots by the way.

You guys can't be serious about judging a tv based on amateur shots of an expo show floor demo...Of course I'm serious, and don't call me Shirley ... oh wait, you didn't. :p

ARe you totally postive about this?
Do any sets that are coming out this year do this yet? My guess Blue-Ray supported by Sony of course will be at 1080p and the PS3 will be coming out soon(6months or so)and I want the set i purchase to be ready for it.
Yes. Sad but true. At this instant only HPs new pseudo 1080p displays actually accept 1920*1080 @60fps inputs.

The fact is Sony is playing catch-up with their LCD/LCOS projector designs. The new SXRDs are a huge step in the right direction. They should sell well based upon their picture quality alone. But those who research and carefully plan their major purchases should consider waiting for next years models.

BTW, I just bought a 4 input * 1 output HDMI switcher (with remote control) made in Taiwan. It can handle 1920*1200 at 60fps!

This configuration will be able to switch:
1) PC based Internet surfing/widescreen gaming - 1920*1080 60fps
2) Sony PS3 - 1920*1080 60fps
3) HD dics playback 1920*1080 24/30/60fps
4) Cable-satellite HD broadcasts 1920*1080 24/30/60fps

From my experience, be careful not to get caught up in AVS forum frenzy, as there is considerable hysteria when new technology products are introduced. Next thing you know the dealers will be selling for over list price.:)

My 60" A20 was on a 24" high stand that I built and this was a good height for us. I think that 41" will be too high. Off axis viewing on these sets are good but...............Why do you need it this high?

The new SXRDs are a huge step in the right direction. They should sell well based upon their picture quality alone.

Agreed. A year from now there may be additional HD Channels that these TV's will provide an awesome viewing experience despite any shortfall in the HDMI. 1080P broadcasts sources will still have a huge void during the wait and beyond.

BluRay is being developed for HD Market of the near past, present and future otherwise they'd have a mighty small consumer market as a target audience. Suffice it to say I and others enjoy fantastic viewing with present HD TV's that are not 1080P - the 1080P at 60"> is simply icing on the cake.

I can understand those that want to wait, and wait, and wait for that Holy Grail set but the feedback I've observed the past few months on the new 1080P sets (Samsung/Mits/Q006) demonstrate a significant difference worthy of my money now and get the enjoyment for the next 8 years or longer without looking back.

I absolutely plan not to come back to see what I may be missing in another year or two - I'll enjoy what I have now for me life's too short to constantly wait on the sidelines. If what we observe on the Q006 and the SXRD's are truly awesome in their current state what are we going to miss? Now - if they suddenly create a 1080P that's holographic and Linda Lovelace is going to come out of the screen of yeah sign me up for the Master Bedroom Model.

I don't think folks that have been enjoying their less than 1080P high end plasma's and Q006's SXRD's or the other 1080P's are going to have regrets. This is not meant to be argumentative - but rather a statement of good enough to enjoy while we wait for the Holy grail and it'll only take money to make a switch or update anyways. Thanks! :D

I second the Master Bedroom Model. Will it have a V chip so my wife can lock me out too??

Life is too short at this point I think the SXRD sets will keep us happy for many years to come. PQ may improve marginally and 1080P inputs will eventually come but who cares. If you take a 1080i signal and deinterlace it I, as the SXRD does, I doubt you would be hard pressed to tell the difference anyway.

Hey Westa,

You need to change your ETA on your SXRD again :( Crutchfield knocked em' back again... I'm # 2 on the list with a ETA of 10/7... the site shows the TV is available 10/15... I'm not sure if thats the 2nd shipment or if they're behind notifing customers with backorders.

Sorry about the bad news, but I'm there with ya.

-Dave

Ok, forget about set-top boxes for a moment. Suppose you use the 2 RF inputs at the back of the set. In that configuration, you need 2 tuners for PIP. And in this case, only one can do HD.

With a set-top box, you're hooked to a video input on the TV, right ? If that Motorola box you mentioned has 2 HD tuners and outputs for each of them, I suppose you could hook it up to 2 different HD video inputs. Wonder if the PIP accepts 2 HD video inputs at the same time. Worth a shot if someone here can try it. Or I will at some point (cannot at the moment).

Hope that helps.



It's as mentioned above. Lenticular. I suspect a lot of the SSE seen at Cedia had to do with the surrounding environment and typical exhibition lighting. Doesn't meant there's no SSE on these sets, but the screen is not diffusion.

They were displayed in a moderately dark room...not in the lights of the convention center. I would say that the screen looked virtually the same as the A-10, and A-20 displayed nearby...It had virtually no reflections, BUT had about the same amount of SSE as the 3LCD's on display. I wish it wasn't so...but it was. The SSE issue was made me go ahead and buy an A-10 this week. If I have to deal with that, why pay a super-premium price for the SXRD? The A-10 50 inch will be fine for the moment. It is certainly not as good as the SXRD, but it's still a very nice TV. If/when Sony addresses the SSE issue, and the dumbo ear cabinet on the SXRD, I will sell the A-10 off and join the SXRD club. :)

FYI...The 60 SXRD will be at The Little Guys store in Glenwood, IL...I called the store yesterday and store worker Brian confirmed it.

http://www.thelittleguys.com/

FYI...The 60 SXRD will be at The Little Guys store in Glenwood, IL...I called the store yesterday and store worker Brian confirmed it.

http://www.thelittleguys.com/


WHEN?

OK, I just got back from the Sony store in NYC and they do not yet have any GW SXRD sets; they don't anticipate them until *maybe* the end of next week.

While I was there I decided to take a look at the A10 and the A20 that is being discussed so much in here. My impression/reaction, I'm not sure whether or not the new GW SXRD will as good or better than the Q006, but these A10s and A20s (at least the sets displayed at Sony's high end showroom) don't even come close to the PQ of the Q006.

The 955 was a much better picture, IMO. The A10/A20's picture was very soft and SDE was very noticeable to me, and I was never one to really notice that before...before being spoiled by my Q006 viewing I suppose. Could it have been the feed, sure, but I popped into the Q006 viewing room and asked the cierge to put the same source on the Q as was being played throughout the rest of the showroom and I confirmed that it wasn't the source since it looked as good as I would expect to see at my own home.AlanBuck, you've apparently seen the new GW SXRDs and the A10/A20s side-by-side, were the differences really not that apparent to you? If not, I fear that the new GW SXRDs must be very inferior to the Q006.

I am now very eager to see the GW SXRDs, hopefully next week...

As I said before, the SXRD was certainly superior to the A-10/20's. But I didn't feel the difference was that huge on the 50 inch size. It was QUITE noticeable on the 60 though. I am mystified why you think the A-10 has a 'soft' picture. The one I just bought is VERY sharp. I had a Samsung HLP5063W a year ago, and that thing had a very soft picture..to the point that I felt like I needed new glasses. ( I returned it for that, and other issues). The A-10 does have SDE, and the SXRD doesn't. At my viewing distance of about 11 feet that isn't an issue for me though. The thing about the SXRD that put me off was the fact that it had SSE about as bad as the cheaper 3LCD Sony's. Still ,the SXRD was very impressive overall, and I imagine it will rate as the best affordable micro-display offered to date.

WHEN?Sorry...Today!!! This is a Excellent place to view any Video/Audio product...They do it right!!! They are a high end store...they are known for their expertise in Custom HT designs... :)

you guys can't be serious about judging a tv based on amateur shots of an expo show floor demo...
haha :D

To make things interesting, here's a JVC D-ILA pic:

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/images/cedia05_3.jpg

I don't know everything, but I think that second TV is an LG :D

So, current 60, 50 sxrd wont be compatable with ps3/blue ray, or hddvd via hdmi?

I don't know everything, but I think that second TV is an LG :D

Lol, Right you are :cool:

AlanBuck,

I, for one, want to thank you for sending the correct message to Sony...the A10 cabinet design is the correct one for most people, and the Dumbo Ears is a huge mistake. While I want the SXRD to succeed and the prices come down so that more people can enjoy it, I wouldn't want anyone to accept Sony's half-baked approach on this version. I can't believe that they would live with this decision for a year, when they could put their SXRD engine into the A series box. Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but it's hard for me to understand.

What second pic? :D

So, current 60, 50 sxrd wont be compatable with ps3/blue ray, or hddvd via hdmi?

That is absolutely incorrect...

Hey Westa,

You need to change your ETA on your SXRD again :( Crutchfield knocked em' back again... I'm # 2 on the list with a ETA of 10/7... the site shows the TV is available 10/15... I'm not sure if thats the 2nd shipment or if they're behind notifing customers with backorders.

Sorry about the bad news, but I'm there with ya.

-Dave

Crutchfield changed their ETA again back to 10/7 from 10/15, so that is in a positive direction. Yesterday my local Tweeter changed their ETA from 9/16 (today) to 10/3.

So, current 60, 50 sxrd wont be compatable with ps3/blue ray, or hddvd via hdmi?I'm not sure what this is in response to, but you should be able to view HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, or use any other device with HDMI output with the SXRD sets. The seemingly-answered question was if you'd be able to pass content to it at 1080p or if you'd be limited to 1080i, but there's no doubt that the content would come through in some form either way.

Crutchfield changed their ETA again back to 10/7 from 10/15, so that is in a positive direction. Yesterday my local Tweeter changed their ETA from 9/16 (today) to 10/3.

And Crutchfield re-re-changed the ETA of 60" SXRD back to 10/15 again in the last 15 minutes!

This round of musical release dates is getting hilarious.

FINALLY!!!! Someone who has seating with about the same distance as me. I currently have a 53 inch videoscope XBR. I sit 17 feet from the screen. I don't think i would want to sit any closer. I have a sunken den. The kitchen overlooks my den. When sitting at the kitchen table, we are a whooping 37 feet from the t.v; WannaBinHD, i have a question for you, how high is your t.v? My current t.v. sits on a table that is 24 inches high. I'm having a table built for the 60 inch SXRD. It's height is 41 inches. That will give the t.v. a total height of 80 inches. Does anyone feel this is too high? We really need a 70 inch set but don't want to pay that much money for a Quilia. I have looked at other 70 inch sets but i'm a Sony guy. I've had great success with Sony, no need to change now.
Snoop

TurboBusa,
As several have mentioned, I too think that 41 inches is too likely too high. I have a Plateau CR2-64 stand, which I believe is about 18 or 18.5" tall. For a week I had a Samsung HLR-6768 on it, and the viewing angle seemed just right, even from 16'. I believe that the viewing angle is a lot more forgiving at such a large distance. Even so, if you add in the height of the set and the 41" stand height, you will likely be quite a bit over recommended viewing height.The picture will likely appear dimmer than it would otherwise. These sets have more forgiving horizontal (left/right) viewing angles than vertical (up/down). Your 24" stand might be fine, but the new one just sounds too tall, at least when viewed from your den. Viewing from your kitchen will likely be improved, however, with the taller stand.

A couple of questions for everyone else. Please forgive me if these q's have been answered many times before, but since I just returned the Samsung, I'm pretty new to this thread.
1 - Does anyone have a technical drawing with height, width, and length of the 60" SXRD? I'm most interested in height, especially the height of the bottom thingy, and then the screen height.
2 - Many folks have noted they are satisficing with the 50" A10 rather than waiting for the more expensive 50" SXRD. Is the 60" A20 the same as the A10? Does it have the dynamic iris? Which do most feel is better, the XS955 or the A20?
Thanks in advance for your replies.

Does anyone know if the SXRD set will accept iLink (Firewire) input at 1080i from the Sony HDR-HC1 HDV camcorder? I've read in an online review that the Qualia 006 did not work with the Qualia 002 HDV camcorder. See below for the text and the link to the review. I've been browsing through the Sony SXRD user manual for any indications of this but could not find any info on it. I also have a Mitsubishi D-VHS deck with Firewire which I hope will work with this set. Any thoughts on this?

http://www.avrev.com/equip/sonyqualia006/

Interestingly, the Firewire worked perfectly with SD sources, but when I connected my QUALIA 002 HDTV camcorder, SDTV 480p sources showed clear through with sound, but not HDTV 720p or 1080i. The three JVC D-VHS decks I use could not play back anything other than 480i/p. But all other analog and digital inputs on the 006 performed flawlessly. I also particularly liked the fact the Sony lets you remove unused inputs from the scroll list, and you can assign a name from a short list of sources to any of the inputs, simplifying the changing of source inputs to a few clicks on the same remote button.

Just to clarify gentlemen, I didn't post that .jpg as a demonstration of the SXRD's picture quality. I agree, it's a terrible representation.

Rather, I posted it in response to a few prior posts regarding screen reflections. I should have made that clearer. I found it interesting how highly reflective the polished bezel appeared, at least in that shot and from that angle. It also seemed like one could see a continuation of the reflection into an adjacent area of the screen, although to a much lesser extent, thank goodness.

Based on the eyes-on reviews here, I'm fairly confident the SXRD's will not disappoint, picture-wise.

However, while I've got room for the 60" "Wings of Prey" box and don't really mind it, I kinda' side with the "Dumbo Ears" crowd from a space efficiency standpoint. Perhaps that reflective bezel may provide a little more ammunition for a cabinet change in the next version if it annoys enough people. On the other hand, I haven't noticed any XS owners complaining about it. Have you?

Edit: The .jpg's posted back in #3841 certainly do show a much prettier SXRD picture, but you can also see reflections in the bezel. Don't mean to make mountains out of molehills here. Just twiddling my thumbs while the clock tics - too damn slowly - and we don't really know what time it is.

Life is too short at this point I think the SXRD sets will keep us happy for many years to come. PQ may improve marginally and 1080P inputs will eventually come but who cares. If you take a 1080i signal and deinterlace it I, as the SXRD does, I doubt you would be hard pressed to tell the difference anyway.

There is no reason for the networks to go to 1080P unless it is
1080P/60 which requires twice the bandwidth compared to current 1080i/30.

Going back to the 60's, the difference between black and white and color
was so dramatic, it took very little time to transition to color.
In the late 90's, the public started to be aware of HD, but the improvement is
not as dramatic as going from B&W to color, so the transition is/will
be much slower. The diff betweem 30 and 60 fps is less still, so it will be
a VERY long time before we see 60 fps.
In fact, given the fact that each year, CBS is showing less and less HD primetime
programming, I have to wonder if we will ever see the majority
of programs in HD.

In fact, given the fact that each year, CBS is showing less and less HD primetime
programming, I have to wonder if we will ever see the majority
of programs in HD.
I'm following you on everything else you're saying, but I thought CBS has increased their primetime HD programming year over year.

But those who research and carefully plan their major purchases should consider waiting for next years models.

BTW, I just bought a 4 input * 1 output HDMI switcher (with remote control) made in Taiwan. It can handle 1920*1200 at 60fps!

I remember you causing an uproar on the Q006 owner's thread. People here have been waiting for a long time time for the SXRD 50 and 60 inchers, since reading on the Q004 and Q006. Now you are telling them to wait another year. I guess you should return that switcher and wait a for next years model too!




From my experience, be careful not to get caught up in AVS forum frenzy, as there is considerable hysteria when new technology products are introduced. Next thing you know the dealers will be selling for over list price.:)

Please, this is what this forum is for! This is not new technology (remember Q004 and Q006) People have heard, seen and love it! Of course there is a frenzy. I have been lurking here and glad to see the enthusiam that this TV is bringing to this thread, since I myself is a Q006 owner. Dealers never tried selling the Q006 over list price, and there was also a frenzy for that tv too! Please stop trying to spoil the party like you tried to do over the Q006 thread.

I'm thinking of the Motorola 6412 which can record two HD channels at once. I figured that this would mean that I could hook the SXRD up to both tuners and get PIP. My biggest debate right now is that I want a TV that can do PIP in HD and that is why I'm leaning towards the SXRD.

I have the 6412, it has two tuners but only one channel is output at a time, so it can't be used as sole source for HD PIP. However, you could connect your cable to a TV with an HD tuner and use that as the other source for HD.

Perhaps that reflective bezel may provide a little more ammunition for a cabinet change in the next version if it annoys enough people. On the other hand, I haven't noticed any XS owners complaining about it. Have you? :)

BU TAL: Your statement about the XS, is it in regards to the bezel or the speakers? Thanks.

Agreed. A year from now there may be additional HD Channels that these TV's will provide an awesome viewing experience despite any shortfall in the HDMI. 1080P broadcasts sources will still have a huge void during the wait and beyond.

BluRay is being developed for HD Market of the near past, present and future otherwise they'd have a mighty small consumer market as a target audience. Suffice it to say I and others enjoy fantastic viewing with present HD TV's that are not 1080P - the 1080P at 60"> is simply icing on the cake.

I can understand those that want to wait, and wait, and wait for that Holy Grail set but the feedback I've observed the past few months on the new 1080P sets (Samsung/Mits/Q006) demonstrate a significant difference worthy of my money now and get the enjoyment for the next 8 years or longer without looking back.

I absolutely plan not to come back to see what I may be missing in another year or two - I'll enjoy what I have now for me life's too short to constantly wait on the sidelines. If what we observe on the Q006 and the SXRD's are truly awesome in their current state what are we going to miss? Now - if they suddenly create a 1080P that's holographic and Linda Lovelace is going to come out of the screen of yeah sign me up for the Master Bedroom Model.

I don't think folks that have been enjoying their less than 1080P high end plasma's and Q006's SXRD's or the other 1080P's are going to have regrets. This is not meant to be argumentative - but rather a statement of good enough to enjoy while we wait for the Holy grail and it'll only take money to make a switch or update anyways. Thanks! :D


Well Said Westa.... I'll take the SXRD now. I've been on the so called sideline long enough. As you said "it'll only take money to make a switch or update anyways".
That's if the next SXRD model is worth the upgrade... who knows the next model cabinet design may be so bad that it causes heads to explode across this forum. :confused: :confused:

So, no matter what happens down the unknown road I will have enjoyed the SXRD for whatever length of time that turns out to be.

This round of musical release dates is getting hilarious.

What's even funnier is people checking Crutchfield every 15 minutes to get the latest ETA date. It'll get here when it gets here, though I can understand the pre-orderers wanting to pin down a date. I'd certainly like to see them arrive sooner instead of later.

FWIW I checked with the local Tweeters and another high-end store. Tweeter gave me an expected warehouse date of 10/3, with another week or so before it makes it onto the showroom floor. The other store was planning on having a showroom demo available on 10/5. Both stores also said that any dates should be taken with a grain of salt; with Sony, you don't know any date for sure until the delivery trucks arrive.

TurboBusa,
A couple of questions for everyone else. Please forgive me if these q's have been answered many times before, but since I just returned the Samsung, I'm pretty new to this thread.
1 - Does anyone have a technical drawing with height, width, and length of the 60" SXRD? I'm most interested in height, especially the height of the bottom thingy, and then the screen height.
2 - Many folks have noted they are satisficing with the 50" A10 rather than waiting for the more expensive 50" SXRD. Is the 60" A20 the same as the A10? Does it have the dynamic iris? Which do most feel is better, the XS955 or the A20?
Thanks in advance for your replies.

Sonystyle.com has a copy of the owner's manual with all the measurements given near the end on the "specifications" page. They are 39.75" (h), 66" (w) and 18.75" (d). The I extimated the "bottom thingy" to be around 10" high.

I remember you causing an uproar on the Q006 owner's thread. People here have been waiting for a long time time for the SXRD 50 and 60 inchers, since reading on the Q004 and Q006. Now you are telling them to wait another year. I guess you should return that switcher and wait a for next years model too!

Please, this is what this forum is for! This is not new technology (remember Q004 and Q006) People have heard, seen and love it! Of course there is a frenzy. I have been lurking here and glad to see the enthusiam that this TV is bringing to this thread, since I myself is a Q006 owner. Dealers never tried selling the Q006 over list price, and there was also a frenzy for that tv too! Please stop trying to spoil the party like you tried to do over the Q006 thread.
Wow this is quit a humorous reply. Here we have a member who just spent $13,000 for a Qualia 006 (whose list price was raised from $10,000 to $13,000) who now wants to by another Sony projector. Is this a very practical or prudent strategy for anyone? Go figure!

I will buy a Sony SXRD display when they provide one which can accept the native 1080p signals from the Sony PS3. The goal is, and always has been, 1920*1080 60fps.

There are HDMI switchers which will now accept and output 1920*1200 60fps. The point is, there is a new generation of HDMI chips on the marketplace! How long will it be until display manufactures incorporate them? Six months to a year maximum. The fact is most cannot afford NOT to wait.

The rule is to buy no toy before its time.:)

BU TAL: Your statement about the XS, is it in regards to the bezel or the speakers? Thanks.

The bezel.

Like so many of us, I've plowed through all the posts in most of the relevant threads. I remember quite a few disparaging remarks about the XS speaker placement, but can't remember any complaints about annoying reflections from the bezel. That doesn't mean there weren't any, I just can't remember them. Also, I don't remember bezel reflections being a problem when I saw the 60XS in CC a few months ago.

After seven months of research, at this point I'm lucky I can remember how to log outta' here. :confused:

Wow this is quit a humorous reply. Here we have a member who just spent $13,000 for a Qualia 006 (whose list price was raised from $10,000 to $13,000) who now wants to by another Sony projector. Is this a very practical or prudent strategy for anyone? Go figure!

I will buy a Sony SXRD display when they provide one which can accept the native 1080p signals from the Sony PS3. The goal is, and always has been, 1920*1080 60fps.

There are HDMI switchers which will now accept and output 1920*1200 60fps. The point is, there is a new generation of HDMI chips on the marketplace! How long will it be until display manufactures incorporate them? Six months to a year maximum. The fact is most cannot afford NOT to wait.

The rule is to buy no toy before its time.:)

I have a hard time comprehending why the SXRD doesn't accept 1080p signal if it has HDMI, IEEE 1394 and a RGB inputs. Is there a new input for 1080p@60fps and if it is , whats it called? Why is this TV Advertised at 1080p if it won't accept the signal? I just don't see any literature stating that it will not accept 1080p over hdmi? Unless your saying it takes the 1080p signal, the Sony converts it to 1080i then reconverts it 1080p, but how the hell would you know that lol?

After seven months of research, at this point I'm lucky I can remember how to log outta' here. :confused:

LOG OUT? Don't you have this forum set as your home page?

I don't know what the exact difference is in terms of materials or construction. I believe the diffusion screen that is used on most microdisplays scatters the light that hits it somewhat to expand viewing angles, at the expense of SSE. Lenticular screens, which are mostly used in CRT RPTVs as far as I know, don't do this. This may be why CRT RPTVs don't have SSE (at least I've never seen it on one) but have more limited viewing angles. The viewing angles on the SXRD sound as good as any microdisplay though, so maybe this new screen is some kind of compromise between lenticular and a standard diffusion screen.

FYI: Interestingly, the failed Toshiba 57HLX82 LCoS set had a very fine lenticular screen. It was set up mostly like a CRT RPTV: Fresnel Lense, Lenticular Screen, Glass Protective Screen w/UV Coating.

I also saw the SSE on it.

Sean

Wow this is quit a humorous reply. Here we have a member who just spent $13,000 for a Qualia 006 (whose list price was raised from $10,000 to $13,000) who now wants to by another Sony projector. Is this a very practical or prudent strategy for anyone? Go figure!

I will buy a Sony SXRD display when they provide one which can accept the native 1080p signals from the Sony PS3. The goal is, and always has been, 1920*1080 60fps.

There are HDMI switchers which will now accept and output 1920*1200 60fps. The point is, there is a new generation of HDMI chips on the marketplace! How long will it be until display manufactures incorporate them? Six months to a year maximum. The fact is most cannot afford NOT to wait.

The rule is to buy no toy before its time.:)
You're wrong reincarnate. The chips to support 1080p via HDMI have been available for years. If you look at the product listing, you'll see that Silicon Image only sells one HDMI receiver chip that DOESN'T support 1080p! If these sets truly do not accept 1080p at all (whether w/ HDCP or w/out) then there is probably some other factor driving that.

http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?id=19&ptid=1
http://www.siliconimage.com/products/productfamily.aspx?id=1

I'm following you on everything else you're saying, but I thought CBS has increased their primetime HD programming year over year.

That's what CBS would have us believe with their "it's all
here" promos, but here's the reality:
2003 2004 2005
Tues. 3 hrs 2 hrs 1 hr
Sat. 2 hrs 0 hrs 0 hrs

The other nights are the same, IF the new shows shown as 'pilot
episodes' aren't cancelled. For example, Fri. nite "Joan of Arcadia" and "JAG" are gone,
replaced by "xxxx" pilot episode, all of which are/were HD. Will the
new HD progs stick, or be replaced by lo def? If they stick, we'll be no better
off, but at least we won't lose anything on Fri.nite as we have on Tues and Sat.

I only go back to 2003...anyone know if 2003 was the peak year?

LOG OUT? Don't you have this forum set as your home page?

Er......uh......did I say "Log out?" How silly of me. Of course I would never do such a thing! Now would you kindly make my mouse start working again. Hey, c'mon, this ain't funny! Awwwwwwwww............................. :eek:

The bezel.

Like so many of us, I've plowed through all the posts in most of the relevant threads. I remember quite a few disparaging remarks about the XS speaker placement, but can't remember any complaints about annoying reflections from the bezel. That doesn't mean there weren't any, I just can't remember them. Also, I don't remember bezel reflections being a problem when I saw the 60XS in CC a few months ago.

After seven months of research, at this point I'm lucky I can remember how to log outta' here. :confused:

It was my impresssion at CEDIA that the bezel on the SXRD was a SHINY BLACK, whereas on the SX it is semi-gloss dark charcoal. The SXRD's were displayed in such a dark area that I didn't even notice the glossy bezel at first.

Wow this is quit a humorous reply. Here we have a member who just spent $13,000 for a Qualia 006 (whose list price was raised from $10,000 to $13,000) who now wants to by another Sony projector. Is this a very practical or prudent strategy for anyone? Go figure!

I will buy a Sony SXRD display when they provide one which can accept the native 1080p signals from the Sony PS3. The goal is, and always has been, 1920*1080 60fps.

There are HDMI switchers which will now accept and output 1920*1200 60fps. The point is, there is a new generation of HDMI chips on the marketplace! How long will it be until display manufactures incorporate them? Six months to a year maximum. The fact is most cannot afford NOT to wait.


First of all, please use the spell check button if you missed a couple grades in school. Second, yes I think it was quite a humorous reply (lol). Third, I never said that I was going to buy another Sony projector. Fourth, Sony raised the price to $13,000, not the DEALERS.

Folks, buy now and enjoy! Of course there will always be something better around the corner, remember you can always upgrade!

Now back to watching my beautiful tv, which I have been enjoying since January while reincarnate waits for next year! :)

AlanBuck,

I, for one, want to thank you for sending the correct message to Sony...the A10 cabinet design is the correct one for most people, and the Dumbo Ears is a huge mistake. While I want the SXRD to succeed and the prices come down so that more people can enjoy it, I wouldn't want anyone to accept Sony's half-baked approach on this version. I can't believe that they would live with this decision for a year, when they could put their SXRD engine into the A series box. Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but it's hard for me to understand.


The Sony reps at CEDIA were getting the message loud and clear..the dumbo ears need to GO! They have also seen the huge response to the A-10 design, the things are flying off the shelves, and often out-of-stock. I wonder how much the A-10 is kicking Samsung's butt? Samsung had a big advantage before by offering the slimmest profile 50 inch TV available. Had the SXRD 50 inch been in the A-10 cabinet I would likely have bought one. But I have to say the A-10 I just bought this week is better than I expected it to be.

With the convergence of PCs and consumer electronics, the "wait another year" attitude will never again be a logical solution. In another year there may be a new, faster, sleeker, more powerful SXRD, but then there will also be something even more enticing, I'm sure. At some point, you have to take the plunge. If you continually obsess over what is coming next year, then you'll never buy a new set. Face it, TVs are now obsolete the moment you buy them, the same way PCs have been for years.

I appreciate everyone's continuing to humor my technical questions. I read the article on 3-2 conversions, and it explained a lot. I continue to be confused by the chorus of "must wait for 1080p, then all will be as God intended". Here's why I'm confused: 1080p30? 1080p60?

If 1080p30, is the point to avoid the motion jitter associated with deinterlacing? If 1080p60, then we're actually talking about waiting for double the resolution of 1080i, right?

Thanks again,
-- Ethan

P.S. I'm one of those weird people who kept his old TV until it started going flaky, so now I'm in the market because my TV may not be around much longer. Given that I'm not waiting a year, the SXRD sounds like a very good choice available today (or nearly today 8) that I'm unlikely to regret.

It was my impresssion at CEDIA that the bezel on the SXRD was a SHINY BLACK, whereas on the SX it is semi-gloss dark charcoal. The SXRD's were displayed in such a dark area that I didn't even notice the glossy bezel at first.

Excellent point Alan! Thank you. Hence, we're not apt to see as many "shiny bezel reflections" complaints - or any at all - from the XS camp and such a malady could remain the exclusive property of SXRD owners.

Hey, I've got an idea: Let's call it "SBR." And only we XBR SXRD people will have SBR. Cool! :cool:

Aaaaah, maybe we'll be so "blown away" by the picture we won't notice. Besides, it's more fun in the dark.

Edit: Best of luck with your new A10. I envy you; you can make decisions.

Also next year, you'll have 1080p plasma with 1080p HDMI inputs. Also, next years SED will start to show it's face. The following year SED will probably really take off and then we'll start seeing FEDs and OLEDs start to surface. And on and on... (Truth or reality, we'll see.)

Just get what appeals to you or you'll play the waiting game forever. The SXRD frame could be better and 1080p inputs would make it a sweet deal but as is, I can't wait to see it. I'm sure it will do me well until something much better in the next three years comes along.

Also next year, you'll have 1080p plasma with 1080p HDMI inputs. Also, next years SED will start to show it's face. The following year SED will probably really take off and then we'll start seeing FEDs and OLEDs start to surface. And on and on... (Truth or reality, we'll see.)

Just get what appeals to you or you'll play the waiting game forever. The SXRD frame could be better and 1080p inputs would make it a sweet deal but as is, I can't wait to see it. I'm sure it will do me well until something much better in the next three years comes along.

DITTO :D

Also next year, you'll have 1080p plasma with 1080p HDMI inputs. Also, next years SED will start to show it's face. The following year SED will probably really take off and then we'll start seeing FEDs and OLEDs start to surface. And on and on... (Truth or reality, we'll see.)

Just get what appeals to you or you'll play the waiting game forever. The SXRD frame could be better and 1080p inputs would make it a sweet deal but as is, I can't wait to see it. I'm sure it will do me well until something much better in the next three years comes along.

You bring up a good point. Panasonic just introduced the TH-65PX500 in Japan (due to ship n November) that is a 65" 1080p plasma, and I do believe it accepts 1080p pixel for pixel. Says the dollar equivalent of its Japanese price will be about $9,000. What I don't understand is they said the American version, also to be released Q4 2005, will be $4,000 more?? That doesn't make any sense.

Lest I digress, the point is I will not be in the market for a TV until probably January or February, so I will be at a point where I might want to wait till summer '06 for something like this to come down in price, or to get the next generation SXRD. Assuming a US market price of 9k for the 65" Panny, in a year it might be in my price range. For those wanting to buy now, the SXRD or A10 sound like the best bet. But if you're planning on buying in 4-6 months, it might be worth it to wait until summer when some of these new technologies (SXRD and 1080p plasma) are in at least their second generation.

1080p plasma... I don't know how you could touch that, even with the SXRD. That should be amazing.

I continue to read the posts in this forum and think I've benefited from everyone's "expert insights and opinions". As I'm not one who will likely soon (< 5 years) upgrade from a purchase I intend to make in the next month or two, I'm trying to develop a wise rational for either the A10 or the SXRD. My viewing needs are primarily DVDs and sports broadcasts (from 8'-10' away), and not likely to change more than that. Surely, any new HDTV I may purchase will deliver me to "the promised land" as I have been living for 10 years with a small Trinitron. That being said, I'd like to purchase a 50" - 60" set, new DVD player, and receiver soon.

I have been excited by the SXRD prognosis and recent reports from CEDIA attendees (Thanks!). I've also been intrigued with the renewed interst in the A10 as described by a number of folks postig to this forum- unfortunately, I'm still undecided - Please Help!

Beside the obvious style differences, and price differences (I assume that soon after the SXRD hits the streets their offered prices will fall)- what are the pros of opting for a 50" SXRD? What are the cons of going for a good deal on the A10? When Blu-ray DVDs and players become more mainstream, how will each of these HDTV sets accommodate the blu-ray or doe it matter at all.