What everyone needs to understand re 1080psf60 is that nobody will be able to do it from a practical standpoint using MPEG-2. It is going to require much more advanced codecs (i.e., AVC/H.264 (MPEG-4)) as well as much more advanced DRM. What does that all equate to, much more processing power needed to decrypt/decode/display such source material. Even were they to try and do it using MPEG-2, the processing power would be enormous.

It isn't just a matter of having an HDMI chipset that can accept the 1080psf60 signal, it is the video processing/DRM that needs to be implemented.

Also next year, you'll have 1080p plasma with 1080p HDMI inputs. Also, next years SED will start to show it's face. The following year SED will probably really take off and then we'll start seeing FEDs and OLEDs start to surface. And on and on... (Truth or reality, we'll see.)

Just get what appeals to you or you'll play the waiting game forever. The SXRD frame could be better and 1080p inputs would make it a sweet deal but as is, I can't wait to see it. I'm sure it will do me well until something much better in the next three years comes along.


Two words, "Analysis Paralysis" ...

Most tech/geek/engineer types suffer from it; I used to marvel at how long it took some colleagues of mine to purchase a car or computer. They would create spreadsheets and then spreadsheets to analyze the spreadsheets, etc. :eek:

They would create spreadsheets and then spreadsheets to analyze the spreadsheets, etc. :eek:

Why does that sound familiar... :o

Also next year, you'll have 1080p plasma with 1080p HDMI inputs. Also, next years SED will start to show it's face. The following year SED will probably really take off and then we'll start seeing FEDs and OLEDs start to surface. And on and on... (Truth or reality, we'll see.)



What is SED and FED? For that matter, what's an 'A20', is it another LCD RPTV?
What is Sony's P/N?

Maybe thats why the SXRDs are delayed. They've hired a bunch of elves with saws that are busy cutting off the dumbo ears and super-glueing them under the screen. :D


Reminds me of a trip to Circuit City last week when I examined the set that the SXRD is going to be put into to see what would have to be done to cut the speakers off. Only thing keeping me from doing so is being able to sell it to someone else in a couple of years when I'm ready to move on.

I belive that Sony feels that the SXRD sets are high-end sets and will be placed in larger homes. I believe they wanted to cabinet to stand apart from the crowd. I really like the dumbo look. I can't afford a 70" Qualia so I guess it doesn't really matter that much to me and it certainly isn't a deal breaker. That said I would buy a JVC 70" if I could trust their quality control because it would fit in my space perfectly with just a bit more vertical height. I would actually prefer the 70" set but.....................One pro is that the 60" set will look better.


The A20 does not have the iris but it has decent blacks and I couldn't tell a difference between the A10 or A20 models that were next to each other in PC Richards. I use to have an A20 60" and never noticed and spaklies in the screen. SDE was very prevalent on the set but I still liked the picture better than the Samsung DLP sets. The Samsung pedestal looked very good too.

Here's why I'm confused: 1080p30? 1080p60?

If 1080p30, is the point to avoid the motion jitter associated with deinterlacing? If 1080p60, then we're actually talking about waiting for double the resolution of 1080i, right?.

No, you are getting 'resolution' and 'display mode' mixed up. The 30 and 60 numbers are not resolution, they are framerate.
1080i and 1080p are the same resolution, 1920x1080. This whole issue
of i vs P is a legacy from the 40's when TV was invented, and there was only
CRT technology. Today, there is no reason, no advantage of i over P for
non-CRT displays. For any fixed pixel display, the two interlaced fields
will be output to the screen as one non-interlaced (i.e. P) frame. So it doesn't matter whether the tuner receives 1080i or 1080p. The image on the
screen will be 1080P either way. This assumes 1080P is 1080P/30.
If 1080P/60, then the framerate doubles, but the res is still 1920x1080.
The res refers to the number of pixels per frame.

Looks like these are very soon going to start hitting the showroom floors, though it may be a few more weeks before anyone gets one delivered.

I'm dying to know if they support 1080p over VGA. That's the one thing that's making me hesitant on these - if 1080p _works_ (which is different from the "supported resolutions" per the manual) through VGA I'm all over getting one.

So if someone gets a chance, please drag your HTPC to the showroom floor and try to plug it in for a quick test asap :)

I just got back from my local Tweeter. I wanted to see what they had in the way of stands for my 60" SXRD that's on order. While I was there, I decided to check out some of the sets to see how much SSE and other artifacts were present on the various models. Since they were running the same HD feed on all of the sets, it made it easy to compare them. For starters, the 70" Qualia is absolutely amazing! I had seen it at other stores before, but I was particularly impressed today. One thing that surprised me was how much better I thought the Qualia looked than the 61" Pioneer Elite plasma sitting next to it. And this is coming from someone who owns a Pioneer Elite plasma and loves it. Considering the new SXRD's have a more advanced chip than the Qualia, I'm very excited indeed.

For the record, you can see SSE on the Qualia, but you have to look hard for it. Whatever type of screen they use on that set, it really helps to mask the SSE and I found it to be pretty much a non-issue. I wish I could say the same for the A20. The SSE is pretty bad on that sucker. I really hope that the new SXRD's are better in this area or I may end up being disappointed with my new purchase.

I calld tweeter today to check on my order status. The sales guy told me that he spoke to their purchaser at tweeter and sony pushed the date back a little. He told me the end of sept or first week in Oct I could expect my set. I will have to wait and see.

I read on here that someone said a store sales guy told them that they were going to get a demo set in. Has anyone gone down to look/ take pics of it?

I have the 6412, it has two tuners but only one channel is output at a time, so it can't be used as sole source for HD PIP. However, you could connect your cable to a TV with an HD tuner and use that as the other source for HD.

Sorry if this is way off topic but do you mean split the cable signal from the box? Are there splitter cables for HDMI so that I can use both HDMI ports on the SXRD or would I have to use HDMI and then component?

Another question would be on what ports can I configure PIP on the SXRD? Am I completely in the woods here or do I have a clue (don't answer that)

Ski

I just got back from my local Tweeter. I wanted to see what they had in the way of stands for my 60" SXRD that's on order. While I was there, I decided to check out some of the sets to see how much SSE and other artifacts were present on the various models. Since they were running the same HD feed on all of the sets, it made it easy to compare them. For starters, the 70" Qualia is absolutely amazing! I had seen it at other stores before, but I was particularly impressed today. One thing that surprised me was how much better I thought the Qualia looked than the 61" Pioneer Elite plasma sitting next to it. And this is coming from someone who owns a Pioneer Elite plasma and loves it. Considering the new SXRD's have a more advanced chip than the Qualia, I'm very excited indeed.

For the record, you can see SSE on the Qualia, but you have to look hard for it. Whatever type of screen they use on that set, it really helps to mask the SSE and I found it to be pretty much a non-issue. I wish I could say the same for the A20. The SSE is pretty bad on that sucker. I really hope that the new SXRD's are better in this area or I may end up being disappointed with my new purchase.

My observation at CEDIA was that the SSE was about as bad on the SXRD as on the A-20 displayed nearby. That said, the SXRD still blew the A-20 away on overall PQ. NO screen door effect, better resolution, and appeared to have better contrast, shadow detail, and black levels. Even though I just bought a 50 inch A-10 (returnable for at least 30 days), I will continue to watch this forum and see what people think of the SXRD as they are displayed in stores, and delivered to homes...should be interesting.

Sorry if this is way off topic but do you mean split the cable signal from the box? Are there splitter cables for HDMI so that I can use both HDMI ports on the SXRD or would I have to use HDMI and then component?

Another question would be on what ports can I configure PIP on the SXRD? Am I completely in the woods here or do I have a clue (don't answer that)

Ski

Suggest you read through the User Manual, available on SonyStyle.com as a free .pdf download, starting on page 55. Also page 25. Doing so may answer some of your questions. Only one caveat, some here have raised the possibility that this may not be the final version of the manual.

I have a hard time comprehending why the SXRD doesn't accept 1080p signal if it has HDMI, IEEE 1394 and a RGB inputs. Is there a new input for 1080p@60fps and if it is , whats it called? Why is this TV Advertised at 1080p if it won't accept the signal? I just don't see any literature stating that it will not accept 1080p over hdmi? Unless your saying it takes the 1080p signal, the Sony converts it to 1080i then reconverts it 1080p, but how the hell would you know that lol?

You're confusing everything... It's a 1080p set because that's the native resolution of the display. Anything you throw at it will be upconverted to that.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with whether the TV accepts a 1080p signal as an input. And as it happens, it does not. Which means you can't send this 1080p TV a signal at its native resolution. Which means there will always be some processing involved (more or less depending on what you feed it).

Hope that clears it up.

What everyone needs to understand re 1080psf60 is that nobody will be able to do it from a practical standpoint using MPEG-2. It is going to require much more advanced codecs (i.e., AVC/H.264 (MPEG-4)) as well as much more advanced DRM. What does that all equate to, much more processing power needed to decrypt/decode/display such source material. Even were they to try and do it using MPEG-2, the processing power would be enormous.

It isn't just a matter of having an HDMI chipset that can accept the 1080psf60 signal, it is the video processing/DRM that needs to be implemented.

It's the source that will do the encoding though, which takes more power than the decoding. The TV will receive its usual HDMI signal, just with more stuff to do. You're right that it's intensive processing, but the 1080p chips have been out for quite a while and they are integrated solutions that do everything from receving to decoding and transmitting the result. That barrier has already been passed.

Sorry if this is way off topic but do you mean split the cable signal from the box? Are there splitter cables for HDMI so that I can use both HDMI ports on the SXRD or would I have to use HDMI and then component?

Another question would be on what ports can I configure PIP on the SXRD? Am I completely in the woods here or do I have a clue (don't answer that)

Ski

Splitting the cable from the box will achieve nothing, you'll get the same picture on both cables anyway. You don't understand that a TV that does PIP uses its 2 internal tuners to do so. Forget set-top boxes.

If you don't use the TV tuners, you can have video inputs on the PIP but what are you gonna send to those video inputs ? The same thing ? You either need 2 set-top boxes or one that can send 2 DIFFERENT signals at the same time. And I'm not aware of any, though I'm not familiar with them.

______


About those of you saying that if you wait for newer/better technology, you end up never buying anything, I'll be the first to agree. I wouldn't wait for the next technology if I was on the market for a new TV right now. But those waiting for 1080p do have a point to be honest. It's not new technology, it's out there, there will be a mass-market source next spring (the PS3 if it keeps its promises), and Sony's reasons for not including a 1080p input on these new SXRDs are rather dubious to say the least (what's with the encryption issue ? Since the input of choice is HDMI at this point in time, there's already HDCP that's established and in-use. Why not use it ? I don't get the excuse they gave). But to each his/her own...

EDIT: just to be clear... not trying to debate the necessity of 1080p. For those who think it's useful, I think it's worth waiting for, as it's existing technology that we know is around the corner, as opposed as futuristic display technologies, which are many more months if not years in the making (at mass-market prices anyway).

are you saying that with two tuners and hd cable on the sxrd that you cannot get the pip or twin-tuner or pap to view normally?

Content providers will not release 1080p with the protection that hdcp offers, they want more robust protection. That being said, they may not release any 1080p content just like DVDs were never released with 480p.

Content providers will not release 1080p with the protection that hdcp offers, they want more robust protection. That being said, they may not release any 1080p content just like DVDs were never released with 480p.Kinda like having a 175mph Ferrari in Manhattan? Just because you have high performance doesn't mean you will have a way to make use of it.

Content providers will not release 1080p with the protection that hdcp offers, they want more robust protection. That being said, they may not release any 1080p content just like DVDs were never released with 480p.

Then content providers are unspeakably silly. People will pirate whatever is available. Worse comes to worse, they'll even pirate analog using a video camera.

The idea that people will pirate more 1080p if it's "only" protected with HDCP makes absolutely no sense. They'll pirate whatever's out there, including 1080i, 720p, and probably most popular of all for a _long_ time 480p.

Then content providers are unspeakably silly. People will pirate whatever is available. Worse comes to worse, they'll even pirate analog using a video camera.

The idea that people will pirate more 1080p if it's "only" protected with HDCP makes absolutely no sense. They'll pirate whatever's out there, including 1080i, 720p, and probably most popular of all for a _long_ time 480p.

nothing to do with "pirating more" ... point is they don't want 1080p pirated; that is like having their film masters!

First off I would like to thank everyone for all the good info posted here and thanks for complicating my life :) There has been some great reading and so finally figured I would jump in to the fray so to speak.

I had made my decision on what HDTV to buy. It was the KDF-60XS955. This was based on seeing the unit in several stores and liking what I saw. That was till I went to the Sony web page and found the SXRD. Then did some more searching and found this hive of uhm forum :D yeah forum. While reading here I found the A10 as well. More to think about.

What pushed me from lurking the past 2 or 3 weeks is the waiting till next year discussion. I agree that taking the plunge is usually the best move as there will always be something bigger, better, faster, next year.

But in my case I want 2 HDTV’s. I want one for the living room and one for the bedroom. I won’t buy both this year but will get one. So do I go with the SXRD or one of the others? I do not want to spend $10k over the next 2 years either. So buying say the 50” A10 this year (around $2k) and then moving that to the bedroom next year and then, perhaps a slightly improved SXRD (holding my breath for a 70” SXRD, street price maybe $5k ) could be the way to go? So waiting till next year is not so bad, in my case at least. But I have yet to see the SXRD so maybe will really like the picture and buy it now and go plasma for the bedroom. So many desions, not enough money. :D

No, you are getting 'resolution' and 'display mode' mixed up. The 30 and 60 numbers are not resolution, they are framerate.
1080i and 1080p are the same resolution, 1920x1080. This whole issue
of i vs P is a legacy from the 40's when TV was invented, and there was only
CRT technology. Today, there is no reason, no advantage of i over P for
non-CRT displays. For any fixed pixel display, the two interlaced fields
will be output to the screen as one non-interlaced (i.e. P) frame. So it doesn't matter whether the tuner receives 1080i or 1080p. The image on the
screen will be 1080P either way. This assumes 1080P is 1080P/30.
If 1080P/60, then the framerate doubles, but the res is still 1920x1080.
The res refers to the number of pixels per frame.

I understand these issues, but many people here seem to insist on 1080p, and find 1080i an offensive compromise. As you say it above, one would think that there's no difference from the viewer's perspective, but obviously several people think there is one.

I continue to read the posts in this forum and think I've benefited from everyone's "expert insights and opinions". As I'm not one who will likely soon (< 5 years) upgrade from a purchase I intend to make in the next month or two, I'm trying to develop a wise rational for either the A10 or the SXRD. My viewing needs are primarily DVDs and sports broadcasts (from 8'-10' away), and not likely to change more than that. Surely, any new HDTV I may purchase will deliver me to "the promised land" as I have been living for 10 years with a small Trinitron. That being said, I'd like to purchase a 50" - 60" set, new DVD player, and receiver soon.

I have been excited by the SXRD prognosis and recent reports from CEDIA attendees (Thanks!). I've also been intrigued with the renewed interst in the A10 as described by a number of folks postig to this forum- unfortunately, I'm still undecided - Please Help!

Beside the obvious style differences, and price differences (I assume that soon after the SXRD hits the streets their offered prices will fall)- what are the pros of opting for a 50" SXRD? What are the cons of going for a good deal on the A10? When Blu-ray DVDs and players become more mainstream, how will each of these HDTV sets accommodate the blu-ray or doe it matter at all.

I'm no expert, but here's a summary of what I've gleaned:

SXRD plusses:

better black levels and contrast ratio; higher resolution (although at your viewing distance, it may not be appreciable in the 50" size, but more apparent in the 60" size); less screen door effect (you don't see the pixel grid). It's not certain whether the production SXRD will suffer from silk screen effect (SSE).

A10 plusses:

cheaper. And this is like Sony's 5th gen LCD, whereas SXRD is a newer technology (but looks like a winner going forward).

Since you don't plan on upgrading soon, I think it behooves you to hold on a little longer so you can see the SXRD for yourself before deciding.

Remember, the experts won't be watching your TV, YOU will. So get what looks good to you. And if the cost differential comes down to a few hundred bucks, go for it b/c life is short and your TV will last a while :)

" It's not certain whether the production SXRD will suffer from silk screen effect (SSE)."

It is to me. The screen material is essentially the same.

are you saying that with two tuners and hd cable on the sxrd that you cannot get the pip or twin-tuner or pap to view normally?

I don't understand your question. How do you get your HD ? Set-top box or direct feed to the TV ? And if set-top box, are you hooked up to the TV via a video input or is there a pass-through RF ? All of this matters.

The bottom line is: if you use both RF inputs on the TV and therefore both tuners on the TV, ONLY ONE can show HD material. That's the way they're made. I've no idea if you can have 2 HD signals up at once with video inputs. Hope that makes it clear(er).

Content providers will not release 1080p with the protection that hdcp offers, they want more robust protection. That being said, they may not release any 1080p content just like DVDs were never released with 480p.

That's what I find weird. Maybe HDCP is not robust enough (I don't know, to be honest), but I bet if it can be bypassed, the next future protection system probably will too. Let's face it, there will always be piracy and it doesn't make as much of a dent in their revenues as the MPAA would have us believe.

I wish they'd devote their efforts to another better input instead of re-designing the protection system of HDMI. Plus what does it mean for owners of older TVs ? That they won't be able to watch high-def DVDs when they come out because their TV is not capable of dealing with the new protection system ? One more reason for me to wait for 1080p inputs with that hypothetical new protection. At least, that'll be futureproof.

I understand these issues, but many people here seem to insist on 1080p, and find 1080i an offensive compromise. As you say it above, one would think that there's no difference from the viewer's perspective, but obviously several people think there is one.



Let them believe whatever they like.
All I can say is that they will be in for some disappointment when they find that 1080p 30fps provides no better picture quality then 1080i 30fps.

As for 1080p 60fps, well I for one will have replaced the SXRD and probably whatever I buy after that before 1080p 60 video (not games) becomes available.
Not everyone is interested in games.

1080p 24 or 1080 24psf (Progressive Segmented Frame) support would be useful, but if the TV can do proper 3:2 pull down, it is not required either.

Is there any chance that the REAL reason we don't have 1080p input support is the fact that the displays REALLY CAN'T display 1920 X 1080 pieces of information EVEN if delivered and the Video Industry doesn't want to expose that fact? As far as that goes the only way I'd REALLY be able to know if a display really displayed that many pieces of information would be if I took the time to count them one by one. How many people can honestly say they have ever individually counted each and every pixel/bit of picture information?

I have. But I'm bettter now.

Let them believe whatever they like.
All I can say is that they will be in for some disappointment when they find that 1080p 30fps provides no better picture quality then 1080i 30fps.



I believe the following is true:

DVD 480i processed to 480p and on to 720p yields a huge improvement in PQ
SD 480i processed to 720p is HO HUM at best

I don't understand why.

But the related question on the table is:

Will 1080p provide a DVD-like improvement in PQ over 1080i? I think a lot of people are hoping so but I suspect it will not - but I'm not sure why. A little tech talk from the AVS wiz kids is in order.

Would anyone happen to know how wide the footprint of the 50" SXRD model is? I've got a current TV stand I want to use it on. Thanks.

Dave

Roller 11: Are you saying that 1080i is the same as 1080P when you have a fixed pixel 1090P display? Therfore a native 1080P signal would not macke much of a difference compared to a 1080I signal?

Would anyone happen to know how wide the footprint of the 50" SXRD model is? I've got a current TV stand I want to use it on. Thanks.

Dave

Well, based on the manual for the SU-GW12 stand that is designed to work with the 50" and 60" as well as a few other older Sony Grand Wega Models...

http://www.sonystyle.com/intershoproot/eCS/Store/en/documents/specifications/SUGW12.pdf

It appears the base has to be the same for all Sony models that use that stand.

With that in mind, the cut sheet from the 55" XS model that also uses that same stand...

http://www.sonystyle.com/intershoproot/eCS/Store/en/documents/specifications/KDF55XS955Cut.pdf

it would appear the base should be 36 1/4"

1080p 24 or 1080 24psf (Progressive Segmented Frame) support would be useful, but if the TV can do proper 3:2 pull down, it is not required either.

This is an issue that I've touched on in a couple of other posts in various threads, but haven't seen a particularly strong response to.

I basically reason that if the future hi-def DVD formats will support 1080p/24 over HDMI then the current generation of 1080p sets may be just fine for high-def DVD film-based material (either flavor), since my understanding has always been that they *do* support 1080p over HDMI up to 30fps (just not 60fps). Based on the evolution of scaling features in standard DVD players I would think that it would be relatively logical for high-def DVD player manufacturers to develop machines that would output 1080p/24 material over HDMI(even if the encoded material on the disc is 1080i/60). This would allow the deinterlacing with 3:2 pulldown from 1080i/60 to 1080p/24 to occur in the player, thereby eliminating the necessity of this feature in the set (in this application). This should ease the concern over whether or not specific sets are capable of 3:2 pulldown from 1080i for high-def DVD sourced film-based material.

Of course this doesn't help OTA material, which will always be reliant on the internal scaler / deinterlacer. But this would be the case whether the set accepts 1080p/60 over HDMI or not. STBs are a whole other can of worms, but in theory could accomplish the same thing with film-based material.

This line of reasoning has led me to the conclusion that the purchase of a current 1080p set will be sufficient for my needs (not speaking for anyone else here!)since I'm mainly interested in HDMI 1080p/24 for film. Would I like HDMI 1080p/60 for whatever future formats may come down the road? Absolutely, but I've been holding off on the purchase of HD ever since it arrived because of various issues with the previous generations of sets and STBs. Needless to say my wallet's about to explode! :)

Does anyone have any issues with this reasoning (ie, am I mistaken about the inclusion of 1080p/24 HDMI in this year's sets or is it unreasonable to expect future high-def DVD players of either flavor to output 1080p/24)? I realize I'm making assumptions here. Are they fundamentally flawed?

And most importantly do the SXRDs support 1080p/24 over HDMI?

Thanks
Alan

And most importantly do the SXRDs support 1080p/24 over HDMI?It is my understanding that they will not accept a 1080p signal of any kind.

Today, there is no reason, no advantage of i over P for
non-CRT displays. For any fixed pixel display, the two interlaced fields
will be output to the screen as one non-interlaced (i.e. P) frame.

If the two fields (being combined) were originally from the same “Frame” this would not necessarily be a “problem” but they often are from two distinctly different frames requiring video processing to hide that fact.

Today, there is no reason, no advantage of i over P for non-CRT displays.

Fixed display HDTV’s, of which display progressively, would have the greatest potential to display the best PQ when fed it’s native resolution progressively as compared to the same source having been fed to the same HDTV as interlaced.

The potential benefit of the Progressive source would be the elimination of the HDTV’s PQ dependency on the HDTV’s de-interlacing, scaling, and correct cadence detection capabilities of which are needed to get any interlaced or less than native resolution feeds to the native resolution of the set, progressively.

I think it is important to point out the fact that posters of which claim the unimportance of an HDTV’s set’s ability to accept it’s native resolution as an input are doing so by attempting to rationalize (in the case of 1080p) the lack of content currently available from cable and OTA sources.

This is not the only reason to consider the benefit of Native Inputs.

One should also consider other devices (DVD, PS3, HD-DVD, Blue-Ray) Players or External Video Processors potential at doing a better job at converting and scaling than what a consumer TV manufacture has decided to economically implement as a built in processor.

Being forced to hand off an interlaced signal, from one of the devices mentioned above, to a fixed display means you will be at the mercy of that HDTV’s ability to de-interlace, scale, and correctly cadence detect to display optimally.

So buying a DVD player or AV Receiver that up-converts to output progressively would be mostly a waste as your HDTV would still add more and different processing.

In demand now are DVD players that output (via HDMI) 480 interlaced! This allows for a Digital path for the un-processed interlaced signal to the up-converter of choice, as opposed to having to depend on the DVD player to optimally de-interlace, scale, and cadence detect to a point of 480p. and then having to depend on additional processing up stream.

Ultimately a fixed display’s ability to accept it’s native display progressively supports more than just the choice to display OTA and Cable 720p/1080p broadcasts.

Let’s hope that Sony didn’t skimp in the area of video processing on the SXRD’s as without 1080p inputs it will be something that can’t be compensated for.

" It's not certain whether the production SXRD will suffer from silk screen effect (SSE)."

It is to me. The screen material is essentially the same.

I agree. Assuming that the SXRD's shown at CEDIA were production models, and I can't imagine that they weren't, the screens looked virtually the same as the A-10 and A-20's on display. Meaning they do have some SSE effect. Of course some people claim they can't SEE it on their A-10/20's, which totally mystifies me!

Of course some people claim they can't SEE it on their A-10/20's, which totally mystifies me!Anyone who claims that they can't see any SSE whatsoever on those sets is either blind or has no idea what SSE actually is.

"Will 1080p provide a DVD-like improvement in PQ over 1080i? "

Of course it won't. There are huge diminishing returns at stake.

And, again, with BluRay at least, the encoding of film-based material will be 1080p24. The process of divinding that and then running 3:2 pulldown on it is going to yield the original frames (assuming no pre-filtering).

How people who can't detect a bob from a 1080i deinterlace are going to tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p inputs on film source is a question that boggles the imagination.

If the two fields (being combined) were originally from the same “Frame” this would not necessarily be a “problem” but they often are from two distinctly different frames requiring video processing to hide that fact.

The video processor does not simply grab two fields at random and combine them.
It knows the 'even' field from the 'odd' field , so if it made such a mistake,
that would be a design flaw. My comments assume the deinterlacer is not broken.



Fixed display HDTV’s, of which display progressively, would have the greatest potential to display the best PQ when fed it’s native resolution progressively as compared to the same source having been fed to the same HDTV as interlaced.

How so? Once it is deinterlaced, it's just one frame progressive. There is
no 'history' of how it became progressive. There are no "degrees" of progressiveness.


The potential benefit of the Progressive source would be the elimination of the HDTV’s PQ dependency on the HDTV’s de-interlacing, scaling, and correct cadence detection capabilities of which are needed to get any interlaced or less than native resolution feeds to the native resolution of the set, progressively.

Again, assuming the deinterlacing is done properly, it wouldn't matter where
the deinterlacing was done. PQ would be identical.


I think it is important to point out the fact that posters of which claim the unimportance of an HDTV’s set’s ability to accept it’s native resolution as an input are doing so by attempting to rationalize (in the case of 1080p) the lack of content currently available from cable and OTA sources.

No one is rationalizing. The thread assumes a native 1920x1080 set accepting
a 1920x1080 signal, so there is no issue of mismatched resolution.


One should also consider other devices (DVD, PS3, HD-DVD, Blue-Ray) Players or External Video Processors potential at doing a better job at converting and scaling than what a consumer TV manufacture has decided to economically implement as a built in processor.

First, Blu-Ray can output a 1080i signal. Second, there is no reason to think
that "box A" will do a better job of deinterlacing than "box B".


Being forced to hand off an interlaced signal, from one of the devices mentioned above, to a fixed display means you will be at the mercy of that HDTV’s ability to de-interlace, scale, and correctly cadence detect to display optimally.

Right, the TV set does the deinterlacing, we all understand that...so what?


Let’s hope that Sony didn’t skimp in the area of video processing on the SXRD’s as without 1080p inputs it will be something that can’t be compensated for.

I would think that Sony's engineers will not deliver a broken deinterlacer.

Roller 11: Are you saying that 1080i is the same as 1080P when you have a fixed pixel 1090P display? Therfore a native 1080P signal would not macke much of a difference compared to a 1080I signal?

As far as what is displayed, yes. That's because 1080i is converted to
1080P by the set's deinterlacer. Of course this assumes both are the same
framerate.

So if someone gets a chance, please drag your HTPC to the showroom floor and try to plug it in for a quick test asap :)

I plan to do just that, I've already discussed it with the sales guy.
Main reason is because I have select bits of HDTV .tp files on my
hard drive that will really show the things I need to see. No way
am I going to watch the store's DVD player playing a lo def
movie to judge PQ on a HDTV.
In addition, I'm taking a VGA cable, a DVI cable, and an DVI to
HDMI cable so my bases are covered, I can test all inputs.
Now, all I need do is wait for my local B&M to get in a Sony XSRD

If the two fields (being combined) were originally from the same “Frame” this would not necessarily be a “problem” but they often are from two distinctly different frames requiring video processing to hide that fact.



Fixed display HDTV’s, of which display progressively, would have the greatest potential to display the best PQ when fed it’s native resolution progressively as compared to the same source having been fed to the same HDTV as interlaced.

The potential benefit of the Progressive source would be the elimination of the HDTV’s PQ dependency on the HDTV’s de-interlacing, scaling, and correct cadence detection capabilities of which are needed to get any interlaced or less than native resolution feeds to the native resolution of the set, progressively.

I think it is important to point out the fact that posters of which claim the unimportance of an HDTV’s set’s ability to accept it’s native resolution as an input are doing so by attempting to rationalize (in the case of 1080p) the lack of content currently available from cable and OTA sources.

This is not the only reason to consider the benefit of Native Inputs.

One should also consider other devices (DVD, PS3, HD-DVD, Blue-Ray) Players or External Video Processors potential at doing a better job at converting and scaling than what a consumer TV manufacture has decided to economically implement as a built in processor.

Being forced to hand off an interlaced signal, from one of the devices mentioned above, to a fixed display means you will be at the mercy of that HDTV’s ability to de-interlace, scale, and correctly cadence detect to display optimally.

So buying a DVD player or AV Receiver that up-converts to output progressively would be mostly a waste as your HDTV would still add more and different processing.

In demand now are DVD players that output (via HDMI) 480 interlaced! This allows for a Digital path for the un-processed interlaced signal to the up-converter of choice, as opposed to having to depend on the DVD player to optimally de-interlace, scale, and cadence detect to a point of 480p. and then having to depend on additional processing up stream.

Ultimately a fixed display’s ability to accept it’s native display progressively supports more than just the choice to display OTA and Cable 720p/1080p broadcasts.

Let’s hope that Sony didn’t skimp in the area of video processing on the SXRD’s as without 1080p inputs it will be something that can’t be compensated for.



External scaler – deinterlacers and video processors CAN be used to full advantage.

For example, they can deinterlace 480i to 480p, upscale it to 1080p and output it as 1080i.
There is NO lose in the conversion to 1080i, just as there is none in the conversion back to 1080p in the display as long as the deinterlacing is done properly, and there is no reason to suspect that it will not be in the Sony.

Qualia owners have found it’s deinterlacer to very good, and the SXRD’s uses the same system as fare as I am aware.


BluRay supports the following on disk:

1080p 24fps
1080i 50Hz (25fps)
1080I 60Hz (30fps)

Output will be 1080p or 1080i 50/60Hz

1080p 60fps is NOT supported in the specs.
We will have to wait for BlyRay2 for 1080p 60fps, if that ever happens.

How well a display handles 1080i is FARE more important then if it can handle 1080p, as 1080I is what we will have for a long time to come.
Any display that does a poor job of 1080i should be avoided.

The video processor does not simply grab two fields at random and combine them.
It knows the 'even' field from the 'odd' field , so if it made such a mistake,
that would be a design flaw. My comments assume the deinterlacer is not broken.

As explained in a link posted earlier on how deinterlacing is implemented, this isn't correct for video (as opposed to film) sources. The 60 fields per second are not truly 30 frames split in two. The videocamera took 1 snapshot, 60 times per second, and each time kept half the rows.

So there is no correct matching of successive fields to make one whole. There is no obvious way to generate 30 frames per second from 60 fields per second that doesn't result in nasty jitter.

Note that this is for standard definition video sources. I don't know if this is true for 1080i from ATSC broadcast stations.

For 24fps film sources, this is all irrelevant as the conversion from native 480p to 480i and back to progressive should be clean.

I think it is important to point out the fact that posters of which claim the unimportance of an HDTV’s set’s ability to accept it’s native resolution as an input are doing so by attempting to rationalize (in the case of 1080p) the lack of content currently available from cable and OTA sources.

I've been trying to find how this can be an issue, and I don't see it.

The most basic issue is that there is no problem converting from p to i. Any device capable of generating 1080p at 30 fps should be able to generate it at 1080i 60 fields per second, and I would expect that the deinterlacer would have some way of knowing that, unlike the scenario above, two successive frames can simply be recombined.

If this isn't the case, please say so, but I'd expect that the flags available to HD interlaced output allow for this.

I do acknowledge that this whole scheme is aesthetically ugly from an engineering perspective, and a waste of resources in the various electronics that need to convert back and forth. But I can't see any reason why this is an issue.

1080p 60fps, however, is a goodly difference that can't be made up for in 1080i 60 fields per sec. But no one has presented that such a source (or receiver) is likely in the near enough future to be worth holding out on a purchase.

Several day's ago I had the opertunity to stop into a Sony style store. I wanted to see if they might have had a 50" or 60 " SXRD on display. They informed me they should be in soon. While I was there I had the opertunity to do a side by side comparison of the 70" SXRD a 60" A20 series and a 60" 955 series.
They informed me that the feed was from a Direct TV receiver connected via component cable. The channel wad Discovery HD Theater. The show at that time was Trading Places or a similar home show.
The 70" SXRD definatly had a tighter pixel structure. SDE (pixle spacing did not become visible until 2-3' from screen The other sets were visible 6-8'.
I hope it was the content because the 70" sxrd set made it apparent or seem like the brodcast was originally a 480p scalled up to 720p by Directtv and then the SXRD scalled it again to 1080. Diagonal lines like guters and siding had an obvious shimmering jaggie line not a defined smothe line. The 955 and a20 series did not bring the anomolie to your attention. You really had to look for it on the 955 and A20.
First impression after looking at all three sets were with the supplied content the 60" 955 series had the best overall picture. With the supplied feed I would have a hard time spending the premium that the 70" SXRD commanded. Given a higher quality feed and some proper adjusment it may outshine the 955 and A20. At this point I will just wait and see.

I never thought in a million years I'd say this but my better half gave me permission to purchase the 60" SXRD. I won't be placing my order until the end of the month but I have never looked so forward to any electronics as I have to this television. What sold her on it was seeing to 70" Qualia SXRD.

Thanks to all for some high-level discussion of 1080P sources. I own a Q006 and will be getting a 50SXRD soon. I am thoroughly satisfied with the Q006 and have every expectation that the new SXRDs will also perform well.

So, it looks like, for now, that we can expect these sets with 1080P native display to accept any 1080I input that may have begun as a 1080P source from a Blu-ray player. The holdout is 1080P/60, when that becomes available. My question is whether the PS3 that outputs 1080P will have the capability also of an output of 1080I for Blu-ray movies and 1080P/60 games?

Sorry for the lack of technical expertise, but I guess my concern is when I get a PS3 for movies and games, just what won't play.

Please listen. I owned the A20 for 30 days and in that time I put it throught its paces. I have a Denon 2900 DVD player and HD Tivo box from D. It's totaly BS about SSE on the A20. I'm not saying that the above reviewer aren't seeing something on the A20 but with the right DVD player and a HD box I never, ever, not once saw any SSE or sparklies or did the picture looked veiled. The A20 is a beautiful set and I'm probably stupid for paying a premium for the newer SXRD sets. So take it from someone who had the set in their home and viewed it for over 200 hours. You will not see any SSE and will be very happy. That is why I'm discounting any reviews about SSE on the SXRD sets too. The new DVD players are probably the culprit. The screen doesn't produce SSE. The PQ on the A20 with a good HD feed is superb. The stretch modes are good. The SDE is visible but at 10 feet or more it is a non issue.

Please listen. I owned teh A20 for 30 days and in that time I put it throught its paces. I have a Denon 2900 DVD player and HD Tivo box from D. It's totaly BS about SSE on the A20. I'm not saying that the above reviewer isn't seeing something on the A20 but with the right DVD player and a HD box I never, ever, not once saw any SSE or sparklies or did the picture looked veiled. The A20 is a beautiful set and I'm probably stupid for paying a premium for the newer SXRD sets. So take it from someone who had the set in their home and viewed it for over 200 hours. You will not see any SSE and will be very happy. That is why I'm discounting any reviews about SSE on the SXRD sets too. The new DVD players are probably the culprit. The screen doesn't produce SSE. The PQ on the A20 with a good HD feed is superb. The stretch modes are good. The SDE is visible but at 10 feet or more it is a non issue.

Oh, I can hear the can of worms opening...

I really do appreciate all of the good advice and opinion on this thread.

BUT, PLEASE give a warning before someone posts exactly how to spot SSE on my Q006 that I do not see at this time. SDE on the Q006 is a non-issue, that I will say. But if there is any SSE, I don't want to know, period. Then I will forever be looking for it, like the first scratch on anything new I buy.

Thanks in advance.

I have enough Sony points from my credit card to get the 50" for about 70% off which is why I'm considering getting it. I've got a 34" XBR910 which I'm happy with and sit about 8-9 feet from the TV now. I guess I could get the A10 for free but from people who have seen the set, would the SXRD 50" be a worthwhile upgrade over the CRT 34" XBR910 at that price? I've never had a big screen TV before so have never seen the SSE or any of the other artficats people talk about. Also, just so I understand the whole 1080p thing, if I got an external scaler, the TV still couldn't handle 1080p? Thanks.

dsm The picture on a CRT will be much cleaner then the PQ on the A10. However, you will gain impact and immersion in anything you watch. I had a 34" for years (still have one in my bedroom) and sometimes it looks as good as an HD feed on my 60" set. Smaller sets produce a better picture. That said I want to get a 50" in the bedroom and would love a 70" set in the livingroom if the Qualia wasn't a 12k set. So make the plunge and you will be happy. The A10 is a great set but if you're ultra picky about PQ then you may want an SXRD.

Anyone who claims that they can't see any SSE whatsoever on those sets is either blind or has no idea what SSE actually is.

It's like the chroma bug a few years back. If people don't know what to look for (I never did) and it didn't both them, why go looking for it?

You guys sound like your mad at people for not seeing SSE (whatever that is) and just enjoying their sets. Jeesh. :confused:

amheck: Yeah I could never see the chroma bug either. Perhaps my 20/15 vision isn't what it's cracked up to be. I guess I better get glasses. Every set will have some noise, artifacts, etc. depending on the feed. It looks like the SXRD are the best sets our for now. I'm gettting one and will enjoy it.

It's like the chroma bug a few years back. If people don't know what to look for (I never did) and it didn't both them, why go looking for it?

You guys sound like your mad at people for not seeing SSE (whatever that is) and just enjoying their sets. Jeesh. :confused:

Ignorance is bliss and I am eternally happy. :D

Sorry for being redundant.

Is there now, or is it even technically feasible for an external scaler to accept a 1080P/60 source and output it at 1080I for display on today's 1080P native sets that don't accept 1080P?

my concern is when I get a PS3 for movies and games, just what won't play.

That's exactly what my concern is as well, but not just as far as frame rate goes. It's that copy-protection can of worms that worries me. Sony opened that can by using it to justify the lack of 1080p input on these sets. I just can't get my head round that. If they are trying to implement a new protection system over HDMI, then anybody who already has a TV with an HDMI input will not be able to fully use their PS3 because they won't be able to handle that new protection system. I honestly doubt Sony woud self-annihilate their customer base by doing such a thing, but then why the comments about copy protection ?

Maybe they're actually planning a brand new interface, not HDMI. However, they already announced the PS3 as having HDMI outputs. So again, I can't understand the copy protection argument.

Really, if one thing is making me wait, it's that, not even the 60 fps capabilities. Sure seems like something is going on behind the scenes.

My 60" A20 was on a 24" high stand that I built and this was a good height for us. I think that 41" will be too high. Off axis viewing on these sets are good but...............Why do you need it this high?


My viewing distances are 18 and 37 feet. I really need a larger set, but this will have to do for now.

My viewing distances are 18 and 37 feet. I really need a larger set, but this will have to do for now.
WoW! Trying to imagine a 37' VD? I have a 3K sq ft Condo and the only place I could have that kind of VD would be in the open basement of where I have an additional 1850 sq ft. You either live in an estate or warehouse or open basement - that's huge HT space. Sounds like you need a Front Projector at 102" even a 60" won't seem all that large at 37'. Qualia would help but of course the price more than doubles for you. Good Luck!

My Sony guru just informed me that the PS3 will output also at 1080I, 720P and 480I/P. I have asked whether he knows or could speculate what would happen to a 1080P/60 game.

My Sony guru just informed me that the PS3 will output also at 1080I, 720P and 480I/P. I have asked whether he knows or could speculate what would happen to a 1080P/60 game.

You have to wonder how many games would even be written for 1080P on the PS3. I think Sony is saying that the PS3 will do 1080P to one up Microsoft who says that all games on the XBOX 360 will do 720P at a minimum. It would take a whole lot of horse power that I doubt even the PS3 has to run a game at 1920x1080. Not to mention the fact that the vast majority of HDTV owners can't even do 1080P. So I don't see why developers would even target that resolution. I bet the vast majority of games will be 720P, like the XBOX 360 (which all games will be 720P at a minimum). My guess is that 1080P gaming won't be a reality until PS4.

SSE (aka sparkles) on the A10/A20 isn't all that bad. Before I got an A10 I was worried that SSE could be a big problem but I'm not really having much a problem with it, especially with good clean source material. Based on the level of SSE I see on the A10 I would not have a problem with the SXRD.

P.S. I'm not saying I don't see it...just that its not as bad as I feared it would be.

I agree..it isn't a huge problem at all. If you don't think about you don't even notice it after a while. But I imagine the TV's would look more 'window like' if it wasn't there. (viewing angles and brightness would probably suffer though)

Please listen. I owned the A20 for 30 days and in that time I put it throught its paces. I have a Denon 2900 DVD player and HD Tivo box from D. It's totaly BS about SSE on the A20. I'm not saying that the above reviewer aren't seeing something on the A20 but with the right DVD player and a HD box I never, ever, not once saw any SSE or sparklies or did the picture looked veiled. The A20 is a beautiful set and I'm probably stupid for paying a premium for the newer SXRD sets. So take it from someone who had the set in their home and viewed it for over 200 hours. You will not see any SSE and will be very happy. That is why I'm discounting any reviews about SSE on the SXRD sets too. The new DVD players are probably the culprit. The screen doesn't produce SSE. The PQ on the A20 with a good HD feed is superb. The stretch modes are good. The SDE is visible but at 10 feet or more it is a non issue.

SSE is most certainly present on the A-20, and ALL other micro-display RPTV's for that matter. I see it on every Sony 3LCD TV at every store, and at friend's homes, and on the GWIII, and A-10 at MY home. If has NOTHING to do with the source...it is INHERENT to the screen design and materials. Again I cannot fathom how a person with good vision can say it's not there...I have 20/15 vision just checked this week. SSE is stationary sparkles that are quite obvious in solid color lighter scenes. When the camera pans the sparkles don't move with the pan. If you can't see it I guess that's great...but that doesn't mean it's not there...because it IS. That doesn't mean these TV's are bad, but it is a distraction in the PQ. Plasmas, direct view CRT's,and older style CRT RPTV's do not exhibit this effect at all. Don't tell people they won't see any SSE on the A-20 or SXRD, that is VERY misleading. Some people might not see it, but i wager that most would. I have asked people at my home about it, and every person I asked can see it ,and understands what SSE is when it is pointed out to them.

First impression after looking at all three sets were with the supplied content the 60" 955 series had the best overall picture. With the supplied feed I would have a hard time spending the premium that the 70" SXRD commanded. Given a higher quality feed and some proper adjusment it may outshine the 955 and A20. At this point I will just wait and see.

A smaller set will always have a better picture, all other factors being equal.
The only valid A-B comparison if PQ is between same size sets.

While we all wait -

Are there DVD players that might be considered "better compatible" with the new SXRD sets?

Are there receivers that might be considered "better compatible" with the new SXRD sets?

SSE is most certainly present on the A-20, and ALL other micro-display RPTV's for that matter. I see it on every Sony 3LCD TV at every store, and at friend's homes, and on the GWIII, and A-10 at MY home. If has NOTHING to do with the source...it is INHERENT to the screen design and materials. Again I cannot fathom how a person with good vision can say it's not there...I have 20/15 vision just checked this week. SSE is stationary sparkles that are quite obvious in solid color lighter scenes. When the camera pans the sparkles don't move with the pan. If you can't see it I guess that's great...but that doesn't mean it's not there...because it IS. That doesn't mean these TV's are bad, but it is a distraction in the PQ. Plasmas, direct view CRT's,and older style CRT RPTV's do not exhibit this effect at all. Don't tell people they won't see any SSE on the A-20 or SXRD, that is VERY misleading. Some people might not see it, but i wager that most would. I have asked people at my home about it, and every person I asked can see it ,and understands what SSE is when it is pointed out to them.

Now why would you want to ruin a person's viewing experience by forcing him/her to focus on/seek out imperfections that they might otherwise not see?

I would say that, just like for rainbows on sequential color displays, for the people that don't detect things that others do, they DON'T exist :)

Now why would you want to ruin a person's viewing experience by forcing him/her to focus on/seek out imperfections that they might otherwise not see?

I would say that, just like for rainbows on sequential color displays, for the people that don't detect things that others do, they DON'T exist :)

I am just saying that he shouldn't live in denial, and tell people that SSE doesn't exist on these TV's. It most certainly is there, and people considering various type of displays should know it is. If they can't see it, or it doesn't bother them that is great. But's let's not put out false information to justify our purchase decisions. Remember I have 2 Sony 3LCD RPTV's. The SSE didn't stop me from buying them. But I am well aware it is there, and would prefer it wasn't.

AlanBuck: I'll say this one more time another way. I had an A20 for 200 hours and never noticed any sparklies. I did see SSE on a JVC D-ila set at PC Richards so I know what it looks like and I also saw motion artifiacts on this set too. If SSE bothers you then why not get a 50" Panny Plasma instead of the A10? I just don't want people to freak out or question their pre-orders because of something that I could never see on any Sony that I viewed and that I don't believe is a distraction for most of us. But I guess everyone should see for themselves.

It is my understanding that they will not accept a 1080p signal of any kind.

Bummer... In that case we are truly at the mercy of the internal deinterlacer. :(

At least the Sony Cinemotion DRC seems to have improved over the years w/ respect to handling 3:2 pulldown on 480i sources. I hope they've ported that experience over to 1080i. If not, and they're simply going to do some kind of bob or weave method at 1080, then I will be quite disappointed and likely go elsewhere for my TV fix. In any case, I'm not expecting much from the internal conversion of 1080i video-based sources since that's much more difficult (and impossible to do perfectly).

I guess we won't know anything about the quality of the 1080i deinterlacing for certain until these sets end up in the hands of people with the expertise to check this out thoroughly.

All these issues just reinforce my long-time disappointment that the highest res DTV standard was ever saddled with interlacing in the first place (as I recall that was done so that it would fit in the same channel space as analog). And don't even get me started about broadcasters still not using all of that space, giving us HD-lite. :mad:

Alan

AlanBuck: I say this one more time another way. I had an A20 for 200 hours and never noticed any sparklies. I did see them on a JVC D-ila set at PC Richards so I know that they look like. If they bother you why not get a 50" Panny Plasma instead of the A10? I just don't want people to freak out or question their pre-orders because of something that I could never see and that I don't believe is a distraction for most of us. But I guess everyone should see for them selves.

I am not out to have a cat fight here. But the A-10/20's do have sparkles, as does the SXRD. In fact the sparkles on the SXRD are one reason I decided to take a pass, and buy the cheaper A-10. I was hoping the SXRD would have that clear 'looking out a window look' that the better plasmas exhibit. Your suggestion to buy a Panny plasma is a good one for people who don't like the SSE effect. I didn't say SSE is deal-breaker for most people, but it seems fair to advise them that these TV's exhibit that effect. Remember I have TV's with the sparkles too. :)

The 60 fields per second are not truly 30 frames split in two. The videocamera took 1 snapshot, 60 times per second, and each time kept half the rows.

No, for NTSC, deinterlacing is not merely
discarding half the scan lines as you claim.
There is an 'even' field and an 'odd' field which are composited to create
a frame. Obviously, NTSC had to devise a way for the deinterlacer to keep
track so as to make a coherent frame from these two fields. During vertical blanking, there are
pulses known as 'equalization and serration' pulses. The number and sequence is of these pulses is different for the even and odd frames. The video processor
detects the difference and therefore knows how to composite the two fields
into a coherent frame. (These pulses are on the Vsync waveform, and can
observed using any time domain instrument such as a digital scope
or Logic State Analyzer. )


There is no obvious way to generate 30 frames per second from 60 fields per second.

Yes, there is. It's called "de-interlacing" and has been around for
as long as TV sets have been around.

My viewing distances are 18 and 37 feet. I really need a larger set, but this will have to do for now.
37 feet?! Do you watch tv on a tennis court or do you watch your neighbor's tv through their windows? :p

I've been reading this thread for a long time now, and maybe this was already answered somewhere (and maybe it's not something that can be answered objectively); so I'm sorry if that's the case. But here's what I'm wondering.

My understanding of the sets is that they will convert signals to 1080p for display, but will not accept 1080p input. What difference would there be between that scenario vs. a set that accepts 1080p and displays at 1080p.

Would there be a difference in PQ or would it just have to do less processing (resulting in a higher refresh rate or something? I dunno, I'm pullling stuff out of anywhere)?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for my ignorance. I realize this is a high-endish board, so I tried to do as much research as possible; but I couldn't quite piece this one answer together.

hey guys,

For anyone who wants to see the 50 sxrd in toronto, they have one at the sony store in yorkdale on display.

They Where playing a hd feed through component. its the standard rogers loop that they play. I had to wait until they started playing csi in hd because the much music awards are really compressed and have a $hitload of artifacts.

Anyways, they have the 50 inch sxrd right beside the 60 XS, the colours where more vibrant and the black levels looked awsome. it is the XS case that the sxrd is in but looks a little different something about it looks a little different. but that could be because its brand new.

the msrp was $4999 for the 50 inch.

it was really crazy in the sony store so I didn't have the chance to ask anyone when the 60 inch will be available or if it was already in stock.

I just called the Sony Store in South Coast Plaza (Costa Mesa CA) and they are expecting the SXRDs in by about 26 September and should have them up and running by the first week in October. For So. Calif. folk this is likely to be the first chance we have to see a new Sony 1080p in action. Based on past experience, they are likely to be tweaked to as near perfection as possible and running good source material.

BTW, they do have a Qualia on display if anyone is interested. It is a truly outstanding HDTV. The best I have seen for it's size.

I just called the Sony Store in South Coast Plaza (Costa Mesa CA) and they are expecting the SXRDs in by about 26 September and should have them up and running by the first week in October. For So. Calif. folk this is likely to be the first chance we have to see a new Sony 1080p in action. Based on past experience, they are likely to be tweaked to as near perfection as possible and running good source material.

BTW, they do have a Qualia on display if anyone is interested. It is a truly outstanding HDTV. The best I have seen for it's size.


Awesome, thanks for the info. I called them two days ago and all they said was "we don't have an exact date."

I've been following the AVS boards for many months trying to put myself in a position to make a good decision on what to buy.

I'm somewhat impressed that my decision is coming down to choosing between the Panny and the SXRD and that is, also, what a lot of people here are talking about. It seems that those are the 2 best 50" pictures out there for a doable price.

The Panny is nice and thin and has that PLASMA look. On the other hand, the blacks are mediocore, although among the best in the plasma crowd. The plasma is subject to burn-in and I plan to watch a lot of unstretched 4:3 tv. (Why? Because I can't resist the news channels for too long, that's why.)

The SXRD is probably the best of the RP crowd, but it is wide and much deeper and might have the dreaded SSE. ........... No screen door effect, however.

CRT's are too big and heavy. LCD's will probably be #1 someday, but I fear the motion blur that I see.

No, it's going to be the SXRD or the Panny plasma for me, I think, but I'm keeping my mind open. .............. If only the plasma blacks were better and didn't scare me with burn-in. ................. Oh well, keep an open mind, but I can't wait to see the SXRD! (and read your reviews, as well.)

Yes, there is. It's called "de-interlacing" and has been around for
as long as TV sets have been around.

I don't present my statements as representing first hand knowledge. Here's the link that was posted earlier:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html

It contradicts what you're saying, that deinterlacing is obvious. I would also note all the lines of "features" for the SXRDs dedicated to describing their wonderful deinterlacing technology.

But, as I say, I don't know any of this first hand. If you disagree with the article, could you explain why?

Thanks,
-- Ethan

"CRT's are too big and heavy" Yes, that really effects picture quality :D

"CRT's are too big and heavy" Yes, that really effects picture quality :D
Heavier the amp the better the sound quality , right? :D

I've been following the AVS boards for many months trying to put myself in a position to make a good decision on what to buy.

I'm somewhat impressed that my decision is coming down to choosing between the Panny and the SXRD and that is, also, what a lot of people here are talking about. It seems that those are the 2 best 50" pictures out there for a doable price.

The Panny is nice and thin and has that PLASMA look. On the other hand, the blacks are mediocore, although among the best in the plasma crowd. The plasma is subject to burn-in and I plan to watch a lot of unstretched 4:3 tv. (Why? Because I can't resist the news channels for too long, that's why.)

The SXRD is probably the best of the RP crowd, but it is wide and much deeper and might have the dreaded SSE. ........... No screen door effect, however.

CRT's are too big and heavy. LCD's will probably be #1 someday, but I fear the motion blur that I see.

No, it's going to be the SXRD or the Panny plasma for me, I think, but I'm keeping my mind open. .............. If only the plasma blacks were better and didn't scare me with burn-in. ................. Oh well, keep an open mind, but I can't wait to see the SXRD! (and read your reviews, as well.)

It is always something isn't it? LOL I am suprised you aren't pleased with the blacks on the Panny plamsa....they have always looked great to me in stores. I have really never seen one in a really dark home-type environment though. Burn-in could be a real concern though for some types of use. I would probably have bought the Panny had it fit my entertainment center. The A-10 fits like it was made for me, and so far the PQ has been better than I expected. The main weak-point is that it can't do inky blacks, but it is better than the the GWIII for sure. Post your review of the SXRD when you see one. I might have gone for one of those too were it not for the wide speaker design. They are surely better than the A-10, but I think it will do me ok for now.

hey guys,

For anyone who wants to see the 50 sxrd in toronto, they have one at the sony store in yorkdale on display.
it was really crazy in the sony store so I didn't have the chance to ask anyone when the 60 inch will be available or if it was already in stock.

Thnx for the info space2001. I actually called Yorkdale yesterday about the 60" and was given a date of late October (ack!), but 'Mike' also said he'd be attending a trade show this Mon/Tues where he would be getting a more specific date.

Any idea who is going to carry these in Toronto besides Sony Storre?

No, it's going to be the SXRD or the Panny plasma for me, I think, but I'm keeping my mind open. .............. If only the plasma blacks were better and didn't scare me with burn-in.

Having compared the Panasonic/Qualia extensively I'd say their black levels are on par. In fact I'd say the blacks on the panasonic can look even more "solid" sometimes due no doubt to the punchier picture. I find the Qualia black levels quite good too.

Have the new SXRD's really improved black level performance?

Regarding plasma burn-in, for what it's worth, while it's been discussed a lot over the 4 years I've been on the plasma forum, it has been practically a non-issue in terms of people actually reporting burn-in (and all you have to do is see every little technical nit-pick complained about by owners on these forums to know that burn-in would be much reported if it were occurring from plasma owners on AVS).

I've had my Panasonic plasma for around 3 years. With the single exception of stretching 4:3 SD content to fill the screen, my family has been otherwise merciless to the display. Tons of children's programs, repeated daily, with the same hard logos in the corner. Tons of letter-boxed movies. And my wife is addicted to a local "ticker-tape" news channel which is virtually all graphics. Almost every day I come home I find she has left the channel on that station, whether she's watching it or not. Truly a worst-case scenario. (She will never care about this whole "burn-in" thing).

After three years I have absolutely zero burn-in (I've checked). If that helps you out at all.

As far as the Qualia/SXRD, I have a hard time wrapping my head around concerns of the SSE effect. I mean, no doubt it's there but I'm rarely aware of it when I watch the Qualia. Perhaps I could sensitize myself to it, but then I could do the same to any display. I could get all up in arms about the screen-door-effect on my ED plasma. But I don't and I simply enjoy it's great qualities. Personally, I certainly wouldn't reject the qualia/sxrd on the grounds of SSE, giving up all the greatness of that display. All displays have their quirks.

Anyway, you are down to two great choices, that's for sure.

Dear All,

Thanks for all the great posts regarding the upcoming SXRD TVs. I've been lurking here reading and learning. I would like to know what the WEGA GATE is, though. As I understood most of the earlier posts, the SXRDs will not accept direct input 1080p signals, is this still correct?

As for seeing one, I spoke with the Sony Store in Windsor, Ontario. They said that the TV's should be arriving in Toronto at the end of next week (i.e. 23 - 24th) and then come out to Windsor the following week. The salesman wasn't sure about prices but he thought the Canadian MSRP was around $6500.00 for the 60".

Thanks again!

Perhaps ignorance is Bliss.

I just spent time reviewing posted reviews by new owners of the A10 Sony 12 of them and then another 8 reviews on the A20 at Circuit City Site. Not one person posted anything whatsoever with a hint of sparkles or SSE.

I'm not saying it isn't real but don't you think folks would return the sets if it was a factor? Many of these folks mentioned they spent months studying and comparing, they obviously didn't come to this forum and get swayed they let their eyes be the judge.

I must say in the years I have gone to view these sets for comparisons I have never seen it and it could be that I was never looking for it. In fact until recently the only time I saw reference to sparkles was at one of the forum cable sponsors (can't recall which one) where they had a demo of sparkles effect as being caused by defective cables. Perhaps Monster Cables prevents "sparkles"?

Just kidding - I know I could start a flame war promoting Monster (Profits) Cabling.

I expect the 60" SXRD to be kick ass viewing experience but admit I love a good plasma also but cannot settle for less than 60" for HT Immersiveness and that plasma territory still runs double the price for a quality Pio/Panny Consumer model. Now I must figure out a way to prevent myself from looking for the SSE as it's become such a dominant debate the past week.

We need someone in Chicago area to go look at the SXRD at Little Guys - they are supposed to have it on view and report back to us without mentioning SSE - sort of a blind (ignorance bliss) run. Any members close to that store? :D

One thing I really liked about the Panny plasma is the level of resolution. It is much better then any LCD or DLP set I've compared it to which is almost every set but the SXRD and Qualia sets. I also like the instant on with Plasmas. Burn-in is a non-issue for 99% of us. The only real downside to Plasma is the cost for anything above 50" , the heat generated (yes it cost more to run) and the awful glare from the glass screen. The only real deal breaker is the price. And plasma does have noise in the picture but the pixels are much smaller but it's there.

westa,

I'm sure that SSE is there on these microdisplays. I know some people see it and are truly bothered by it. I've looked at probably every major microdisplay, including the qualia, and I've never personally seen the SSE effect. Maybe I'm lucky. Now... I DO see the screen-door effect, particularly on the older grand wegas. The new A10s are not quite as bad, but it's still there. I see it on plasma too, which is a deal breaker for me. If the SXRDs look even remotely similar to the Qualia, I'm definitely grabbing a 60" set.

Dear All,

Thanks for all the great posts regarding the upcoming SXRD TVs. I've been lurking here reading and learning. I would like to know what the WEGA GATE is, though. As I understood most of the earlier posts, the SXRDs will not accept direct input 1080p signals, is this still correct?

The WEGA GATE is a sort of interface on the TV that lets you access the Menu, your video inputs, Favorite channels... and I probably forget some. It's a pretty easy way to navigate the TV features. These SXRDs do not have the WEGA GATE. Some here keep posting that the manual availabe on Sony's website is not final, but there's no proof of that. Heck, even the remote doesn't have the Wega Gate button that the A10s/A20s have. Several people here have now seen the set, and more are going to within the next few days. Let's ask them to check.

No 1080p input. That's still correct.

... The only real downside to Plasma is the cost for anything above 50" , the heat generated (yes it cost more to run) and the awful glare from the glass screen. .....
Could you explain more about what you mean in terms of the increased cost to run and the heat generated? I can never seem to get a definitive answer on this when I research it. I just looked at one at a Tweeter's and although I know they generate a lot of heat, this set seem to be less than my direct view with fans! The glare was also comparable...not bothersome to me. But then again, what one person can tolerate another can't.

I have enough Sony points from my credit card to get the 50" for about 70% off which is why I'm considering getting it. .
how many sony points would i need to get that deal? thanks.

The WEGA GATE is a sort of interface on the TV that lets you access the Menu, your video inputs, Favorite channels... and I probably forget some. It's a pretty easy way to navigate the TV features. These SXRDs do not have the WEGA GATE. Some here keep posting that the manual availabe on Sony's website is not final, but there's no proof of that. Heck, even the remote doesn't have the Wega Gate button that the A10s/A20s have. Several people here have now seen the set, and more are going to within the next few days. Let's ask them to check.

No 1080p input. That's still correct.


If they don't have the WEGA GATE then do you know something that Sony does not?

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=tv_ProjectionTVs_RearProjection_42to51TVs&ProductSKU=KDSR50XBR1&Dept=tvvideo&INT=sstyle-tvvideo-deptfeature-KDSR50XBR1|sstyle:sy_dept_content_b:tvvideo

westa,

I'm sure that SSE is there on these microdisplays. I know some people see it and are truly bothered by it. I've looked at probably every major microdisplay, including the qualia, and I've never personally seen the SSE effect. Maybe I'm lucky. Now... I DO see the screen-door effect, particularly on the older grand wegas. The new A10s are not quite as bad, but it's still there. I see it on plasma too, which is a deal breaker for me. If the SXRDs look even remotely similar to the Qualia, I'm definitely grabbing a 60" set.

The Qualia has very little SSE. The other Sony's have a much more noticeable amount. (not horrible..just there) I still can't figure out how any person with good vision can't see the stationary 'sparkles' on light scenes. It is very obvious when the camera pans across a sky, or snow for example. It is not like rainbows on DLP's where it is hard to catch in the act. It is ever-present. I can tolerate it just fine, and in fact until I read the AVS forum I never thought about it much. But I did know it was there, and detracts from the PQ a bit.

"Have the new SXRD's really improved black level performance?"

Yes. The chip is better. And there is a dynamic iris, Rich.

-------------

On another note, there is some crazy stuff above about NTSC. NTSC was and is interlaced. It doesn't need to be deinterlaced except on fixed-pixel displays. There are virtually no old-sytle TVs with a deinterlacer of any kind. It's simply not needed. Phosphor persistence is used to allow the eye to "deinterlace" the odd and even fields and help the scan lines blend away.

Could you explain more about what you mean in terms of the increased cost to run and the heat generated? I can never seem to get a definitive answer on this when I research it. I just looked at one at a Tweeter's and although I know they generate a lot of heat, this set seem to be less than my direct view with fans! The glare was also comparable...not bothersome to me. But then again, what one person can tolerate another can't.

Newer plasmas would cost about 5 cents an hour to operate here in Indy...that is about double what a Sony A-10 would cost to run...but hardly a big deal. They do generate more heat also. The glare is a tradeoff vs. projection TV's with matte screens. Clearer picture vs. freedom from reflections.

The Qualia has very little SSE. The other Sony's have a much more noticeable amount. (not horrible..just there) I still can't figure out how any person with good vision can't see the stationary 'sparkles' on light scenes. It is very obvious when the camera pans across a sky, or snow for example. It is not like rainbows on DLP's where it is hard to catch in the act. It is ever-present. I can tolerate it just fine, and in fact until I read the AVS forum I never thought about it much. But I did know it was there, and detracts from the PQ a bit.

Thanks for the "tip" on one way to see SSE. I'm not sure if I want to try at all to SSE, BUT I think I should. You wouldn't going buying a DLP without trying to see if you see rainbows first. One film that popped into my head when you said a lot of snow, is Everest (IMAX). That's what I'll do. I'll take the Everest DVD with me to the store. Thanks again.

I know the SXRD 's are not out yet, but I wish they would HURRY UP! and get the Good Guys Monterey Park (CA) remodeled.

Please listen. I owned the A20 for 30 days and in that time I put it throught its paces. I have a Denon 2900 DVD player and HD Tivo box from D. It's totaly BS about SSE on the A20. I'm not saying that the above reviewer aren't seeing something on the A20 but with the right DVD player and a HD box I never, ever, not once saw any SSE or sparklies or did the picture looked veiled. The A20 is a beautiful set and I'm probably stupid for paying a premium for the newer SXRD sets. So take it from someone who had the set in their home and viewed it for over 200 hours. You will not see any SSE and will be very happy. That is why I'm discounting any reviews about SSE on the SXRD sets too. The new DVD players are probably the culprit. The screen doesn't produce SSE. The PQ on the A20 with a good HD feed is superb. The stretch modes are good. The SDE is visible but at 10 feet or more it is a non issue.

You aren't related to Zues, perchance, are you?

[QUOTE=Ineedanewtv]If they don't have the WEGA GATE then do you know something that Sony does not?

Wega Gate is mentioned in the Features section you reference, but if you read the Operating Manual for the 50-60XBR1, there is not a word about it to be found in the manual and the remote control lacks the button for it.

View the manual for the other Sony's that say they have Wega Gate and you will find references to it in the Manual and a button for it at the 6 o'clock position in the circular menus area of the remote.

One previous poster who is in the business said he received an e mail from Sony with specs that indicated the 50-60 did have Wega Gate. Hence, speculation that the manual needs updating.

I think at least one - maybe some - of the Wega Gate features, for example Favorite Channels, is/are included with dedicated button(s) on the SXRD remote.

We shall all see shortly.

You can view .pdf's for Sony tv Operating Instructions on that same website you reference. For each set, click on the Specifications tab and you will see a link near the top.

It's like the chroma bug a few years back. If people don't know what to look for (I never did) and it didn't both them, why go looking for it?

You guys sound like your mad at people for not seeing SSE (whatever that is) and just enjoying their sets. Jeesh. :confused:

It's hard to understand how people can NOT see it. It's pretty obvious to me, even before I ever came to this forum, when I looked at these sets in the store I was always wondering what that shimmering I kept seeing on bright scenes was. I didn't know there was a name for it until I came here, even if it's just a name used only on this forum.

I can live with it but I'd prefer not to. If there are people who genuinely can't see SSE, then I'm jealous of them, just like I'm jealous of people who can't see rainbows on DLPs. My parents have a WF655, which is basically the same as the A20 with a few extra features, and the two biggest problems I have with that TV are the poor black levels and contrast, and the SSE. I've never told them what that is though, because they're not as picky as I am and I don't want to point out flaws that might make them enjoy the TV less.

On the other hand, I could never see the chroma bug, even after I found out what it was.

I've been following the AVS boards for many months trying to put myself in a position to make a good decision on what to buy.

I'm somewhat impressed that my decision is coming down to choosing between the Panny and the SXRD and that is, also, what a lot of people here are talking about. It seems that those are the 2 best 50" pictures out there for a doable price.

The Panny is nice and thin and has that PLASMA look. On the other hand, the blacks are mediocore, although among the best in the plasma crowd. The plasma is subject to burn-in and I plan to watch a lot of unstretched 4:3 tv. (Why? Because I can't resist the news channels for too long, that's why.)

The SXRD is probably the best of the RP crowd, but it is wide and much deeper and might have the dreaded SSE. ........... No screen door effect, however.

CRT's are too big and heavy. LCD's will probably be #1 someday, but I fear the motion blur that I see.

No, it's going to be the SXRD or the Panny plasma for me, I think, but I'm keeping my mind open. .............. If only the plasma blacks were better and didn't scare me with burn-in. ................. Oh well, keep an open mind, but I can't wait to see the SXRD! (and read your reviews, as well.)

I had a Panny plasma for a couple weeks and the blacks on that set are very good. Not CRT-quality, but very close. I'll be very happy if the SXRDs have blacks that good, and I don't expect them to be any darker.

The stretch modes on the Panny are pretty good, but if you HAVE to watch 4:3 unstretched, and you watch a lot of it, it may not be the set for you. But I don't understand why anyone would be worried about stretching on things like news casts. Does anyone really care about the PQ when watching the news anyway?

As far as the Qualia/SXRD, I have a hard time wrapping my head around concerns of the SSE effect. I mean, no doubt it's there but I'm rarely aware of it when I watch the Qualia. Perhaps I could sensitize myself to it, but then I could do the same to any display. I could get all up in arms about the screen-door-effect on my ED plasma. But I don't and I simply enjoy it's great qualities. Personally, I certainly wouldn't reject the qualia/sxrd on the grounds of SSE, giving up all the greatness of that display. All displays have their quirks.

I think the concern has to do with the fact the new SXRDs don't have the same screen as the Qualia, and have been reported to have SSE far more than the Qualia does. I can see SSE on a Qualia, but only if I look very hard for it, whereas on all other microdisplays I've seen the SSE stands out. I for one was hoping the new SXRD models would use a screen like the Qualia that reduced the SSE effect to more tolerable levels.

Just as are there are "techniques" for seeing rainbows and SDE there is a "technique" for seeing SSE (screen sparkles). Your eyes must focus on the screen surface itself rather than the picture.

This is exactly my experience. I can see SSE, but when I do I'm not really focusing on the picture, but the screen surface. When I focus on the picture the SSE becomes much less noticeable. I'm guessing that this is due to a slight defocus that occurs at the screen plane when looking "into" the picture.

I'm pretty certain that I could live with the SSE levels that I've encountered in existing sets. Of course YMMV. I'm still more concerned about the quality of the 1080i to 1080p deinterlacing. I'm assuming no one has any word yet on whether this is being done properly for film-based sources (ie, 3:2 pulldown)?

Alan

OK Here it is.

I got off the phone with a senior tech with Sony this past week. Let me lay to rest some rumors that have been floating around. He had the TV in his office and we tested every feature it had for hours. Here is what I found out.

Wega Gate absolutely no, why? This TV is heavily based on the technology (software/hardware) from the Quailia 006. The software at the time did not include Wega Gate. So in a since the A10s and A20s have newer software.

1080p over HDMI absolutely no, why? Again the Quailia does not have it. This TV is not a new TV just a smaller version of the Quailia.

1080p over VGA? We fed this thing everything we had and it displayed it all. 1080p was by what he observed as over scanned. 1280 X 1024 looked the best by what he saw. You just have to hit the wide button on the remote and he said it looked great.

After all the time we spent on this TV it really comes down to the fact that this TV is a Little brother/ cousin to the Quailia. He stated that Sonys current plans with the Quailia are to keep it at the top for a while longer (exact words were “We plan to milk the 006 it for as long as we can"). Quailia is in the Sony world what Corvettes are to the General Motors world. After 11 short months all TV manufactures are catching up with what the 006 has had all along. Why expect anything better. We can only expect bigger and better things in the months ahead.

You guys have beat this sse beyond death :rolleyes:

To me its SDE nothing more...

SSE is a term that peaple in this forum used in denial of seeing SDE at normal viewing distances IMO... To them you can only see SDE if your nose is up to the screen.. Which is not true and is why SDE is a Weakness in lcd technology...

My viewing distance is 10-12 feet.... When i had My 60weLcd SDE SSE(call it what you want to) was terrible at that distance....

When i swithed to a Mits62Dlp SDE was dramatically reduced..Improvement is right in lines with the fill factor% increase...IMo Nothing More...

The 60 SXRD should be better than MitsDLP as far as SDE....If thats the case, which it should be.. There will be alot of happy 60 Sxrd owners...If its not i wouldnt buy it...

I'm guessing that this is due to a slight defocus that occurs at the screen plane when looking "into" the picture.


With any RP or FP, the image location is precisely at the screen, at the exact same focus position; to view the image you are looking at the screen. Only displays which create a virtual image (heads-up and head-mounted displays, for example) have the image at a different focal plane. What is called SSE around here (speckle is the commonly accepted technical term) is created when light with some degree of spatial coherence is incident on a surface with a fine microstructure (the screen). However you are right, in that the speckle pattern itself can be defocused from the image (and the scree), but the image location is precisely at the screen, otherwise it would be unfocused, blurry.

From PC World press release, notice the "may" support native 1080p
"Sony's KDS-R60XBR1 ($5000, shown below) and KDS-R50XBR1 ($4000) Grand WEGA models, which ship this month, use three SXRD panels to produce more than 2 million native pixels for a full 1080p image.

That's not the whole story, of course. The Sony rep I talked to said that while the flat panel can support a 1080p image, the chassis (the internal electronics) cannot. That's not a big deal now, because no 1080p content exists--even on the CEDIA show floor. But eventually it will.

The rep said that at some point Sony may sell a kit to upgrade these sets to native 1080p, but it'll be a dealer-installed part."

Dear I Can Help,

Thanks for the reply. That clarifies things. Someone on this thread had posted specs earlier on, that indicated that the Wega Gate was going to be present on the SXRD, but I thought that they had suggested it had something to do withthe HDMI inputs.

I'm eager to see these TVs and the upcoming JVC 1080p LCOS. However, I'm wondering if anyone has seen any of the SXRD sets (i.e. including the Qualia) using just standard def TV on a satellite signal. In my circumstance, most of our viewing will likely still be standard def, with occasional shows and DVDs as alternative media.

Thanks again.

Just wondering, I haven't really looked at the Wega Gate much, but I when I looked at a manual it didn't seem like there was anything new there, just a different way of getting to the options?

Can anyone say what I would be missing with the Qualia menus vs Wega Gate? Same # of favorites, etc?

Wega Gate was on the A20 that I had it was no big woop. It isn't newer software but a different menu system for getting into and out of options for the set. This is a non-issue.

In an attempt to not clutter this thread with additional information regarding the mechanics of Interlaced & Progressive video and how they might relate to MIA 1080p inputs, I have posted additional information in response to recent posts by Roller11, Solomita, Owen, Sophie and Bholub in the following thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6209999#post6209999

" You guys have beat this sse beyond death

To me its SDE nothing more..."

You are wrong.

"SSE is a term that peaple in this forum used in denial of seeing SDE at normal viewing distances IMO... To them you can only see SDE if your nose is up to the screen.. Which is not true and is why SDE is a Weakness in lcd technology..."

Screendoor effect is caused by having the active pixel area only fill a portion of the total available pixel area. On LCD RPTVs, only have the area is illuminated pixel, the rest the "grid" in between the pixels. That is the sole cause of screendoor effect and it's bad on LCD because of that 50% fill factor / fill ratio / aperture ratio. On DLPs, the fill factor is about 88% or better.

This screendoor effect has nothing at all to do with what people here call silkscreen effect. They are not even a little related.

"My viewing distance is 10-12 feet.... When i had My 60weLcd SDE SSE(call it what you want to) was terrible at that distance...."

Call it screendoor effect if it is. Call it silkscreen effect if that's what it is. Don't mistake one for the other. They are still not related.

I got off the phone with a senior tech with Sony this past week. Let me lay to rest some rumors that have been floating around. He had the TV in his office and we tested every feature it had for hours.I'm confused. Were you present when this senior tech guy was putting the new SXRD through its paces? If so, what did you think of the set?

Is SSE more visible to people who can see all the stuff in those 3D pictures like they have in the mall?

With any RP or FP, the image location is precisely at the screen, at the exact same focus position; to view the image you are looking at the screen. Only displays which create a virtual image (heads-up and head-mounted displays, for example) have the image at a different focal plane. What is called SSE around here (speckle is the commonly accepted technical term) is created when light with some degree of spatial coherence is incident on a surface with a fine microstructure (the screen). However you are right, in that the speckle pattern itself can be defocused from the image (and the scree), but the image location is precisely at the screen, otherwise it would be unfocused, blurry.

Doh!, I don't know what I was thinking. Of course the image has to be right at the screen plane and the visual focus must be there. Also, thanks for the technical info re: the cause of SSE. Optics was not a strong point for me in college. Are there any screen technologies that could eliminate this effect (without sacrificing other aspects of the image)? Or is that what the higher glare screens on sets like the Qualia are for (or are those just shields)?

As an aside, one of the best cures for the SSE for me on the existing sets is just to quit looking for it. For me SSE is kind of like hypochondria. The problem seems worse when I concentrate on it. Maybe we should coin a new term for this affliction. Telechondria anyone? :)

In any event SSE isn't likely to sway my decision on a particular set too much, since I'm definitely going micro-display and all of them seem to have this effect to one degree or another. I feel pretty certain that I won't really notice it when I'm engrossed in the program. As always, YMMV.

Alan

Just out of curiosity, why is there a 22lbs difference between the 50" A10 and the 50" SXRD? (72lbs vs 94lbs respectively).

Just out of curiosity, why is there a 22lbs difference between the 50" A10 and the 50" SXRD? (72lbs vs 94lbs respectively).

Color wheel assembly. :D just kidding.

Probably, a combination of the screen material, extra width of the speakers, electronics, and just a more substantial built quality.

OK Here it is.

I got off the phone with a senior tech with Sony this past week.
1080p over HDMI absolutely no, why? Again the Quailia does not have it. This TV is not a new TV just a smaller version of the Quailia.

1080p over VGA? We fed this thing everything we had and it displayed it all. 1080p was by what he observed as over scanned. 1280 X 1024 looked the best by what he saw. You just have to hit the wide button on the remote and he said it looked great.

After all the time we spent on this TV it really comes down to the fact that this TV is a Little brother/ cousin to the Quailia. He stated that Sonys current plans with the Quailia are to keep it at the top for a while longer (exact words were “We plan to milk the 006 it for as long as we can"). Quailia is in the Sony world what Corvettes are to the General Motors world. After 11 short months all TV manufactures are catching up with what the 006 has had all along. Why expect anything better. We can only expect bigger and better things in the months ahead.
What a wonderful and unusual post. The straight-forward honesty without bias is refreshing. Read through a hundred pages of cra* for that one jewel.

I too am waiting for "bigger and better things (code for accepting 1080p digital inputs) in the months ahead." Remember computers are a true 1080p source too.

OK Here it is.

I got off the phone with a senior tech with Sony this past week. Let me lay to rest some rumors that have been floating around. He had the TV in his office and we tested every feature it had for hours. Here is what I found out.

Wega Gate absolutely no, why? This TV is heavily based on the technology (software/hardware) from the Quailia 006. The software at the time did not include Wega Gate. So in a since the A10s and A20s have newer software.

1080p over HDMI absolutely no, why? Again the Quailia does not have it. This TV is not a new TV just a smaller version of the Quailia.

1080p over VGA? We fed this thing everything we had and it displayed it all. 1080p was by what he observed as over scanned. 1280 X 1024 looked the best by what he saw. You just have to hit the wide button on the remote and he said it looked great.

After all the time we spent on this TV it really comes down to the fact that this TV is a Little brother/ cousin to the Quailia. He stated that Sonys current plans with the Quailia are to keep it at the top for a while longer (exact words were “We plan to milk the 006 it for as long as we can"). Quailia is in the Sony world what Corvettes are to the General Motors world. After 11 short months all TV manufactures are catching up with what the 006 has had all along. Why expect anything better. We can only expect bigger and better things in the months ahead.

Thanks for the post.

Sounds an awful lot like Sony didn't want to reinvent the electronics for the SXRD set. Up to now, I was under the impression that they would probably lessen the components in the SXRD. Although they may still be doing that for the screen and the lens, it doesn't sound like they are doing that for the other electronics.

It also doesn't look like Sony is going to come out with a Qualia 006 in a 50" or 60". The SXRD can very well be their best effort in those sizes.

I too am waiting for "bigger and better things (code for accepting 1080p digital inputs) in the months ahead." Remember computers are a true 1080p source too.


Based on my phone conversation. I have decided to cancel my XBR1 orders and wait a little longer. I look forward to seeing what is over the horizon. New case design, 1080p inputs maybe 2 in the back and one in the front for PS3. 50,60 and 70" versions. 2 ATSC tuners for pip. That is what I would like to see in TVs in the up comming months for me.

This is exactly my experience. I can see SSE, but when I do I'm not really focusing on the picture, but the screen surface. When I focus on the picture the SSE becomes much less noticeable. I'm guessing that this is due to a slight defocus that occurs at the screen plane when looking "into" the picture.

I'm pretty certain that I could live with the SSE levels that I've encountered in existing sets. Of course YMMV. I'm still more concerned about the quality of the 1080i to 1080p deinterlacing. I'm assuming no one has any word yet on whether this is being done properly for film-based sources (ie, 3:2 pulldown)?

Alan

I agree that your brain can kind of 'ignore' SSE to a good extent if you don' t watch for it, or think about it. I can live with it ok...overall my new A-10 has an impressive PQ. The inablity to render absolute blacks probably irritates me more then the SSE, and even that issue can be ignored also. The more we pick these things apart the worse it gets. I had friends over last nite that were floored by the PQ on the A-10. They did admit they could see SSE on it though when I pointed it out..lol. :)

Is SSE more visible to people who can see all the stuff in those 3D pictures like they have in the mall?You may be on to something there. :)

Oh crap, here we go again! :rolleyes:
Guess what...you are STILL WRONG!
You keep saying the same thing and many people have told you over and over again that you are wrong. Do you really think that you are right and everyone else is wrong? Will you ever learn? If you won't listen to me or others, at least listen to rogo and learn! As for beating SSE beyond death, you have a role to play in that!

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't stop him from thinking it's grass.

OK Here it is.

I got off the phone with a senior tech with Sony this past week. Let me lay to rest some rumors that have been floating around. He had the TV in his office and we tested every feature it had for hours. Here is what I found out.

Wega Gate absolutely no, why? This TV is heavily based on the technology (software/hardware) from the Quailia 006. The software at the time did not include Wega Gate. So in a since the A10s and A20s have newer software.

1080p over HDMI absolutely no, why? Again the Quailia does not have it. This TV is not a new TV just a smaller version of the Quailia.

1080p over VGA? We fed this thing everything we had and it displayed it all. 1080p was by what he observed as over scanned. 1280 X 1024 looked the best by what he saw. You just have to hit the wide button on the remote and he said it looked great.

After all the time we spent on this TV it really comes down to the fact that this TV is a Little brother/ cousin to the Quailia. He stated that Sonys current plans with the Quailia are to keep it at the top for a while longer (exact words were “We plan to milk the 006 it for as long as we can"). Quailia is in the Sony world what Corvettes are to the General Motors world. After 11 short months all TV manufactures are catching up with what the 006 has had all along. Why expect anything better. We can only expect bigger and better things in the months ahead.

So this means no 1:1 pixel mapping? Excuse my ignorance regarding 1:1, but right now I'm sending 1744x988 to my crappy panny crt via component cables so I haven't had any experience with this stuff. Is this only for vga or can hdmi 1:1 map? Can you elimante overscan for all sources in the display easily (without messing with service mode)?

Of course if what incredible1959 red from PC world is correct then I would say any hesitantion I have left regarding puting the cash down for a 60" set would be gone. Though I can't say there was much hesitation really.

Last week I went to tweeter to go look at some of the new 1080p sets. First I saw the samsung and mit. 50". They looked nice. A bit better then the 720p sets. The feed was some red carpet stuff on HDNet. While I don't see rainbows, I'm always concerned about what others wouild see on my tv so I've always been less enthusiastic about dlp. Also I've always been bothered by some form of motion artifacting I've seen with dlp. It looks like some kind of a dithering of a block of pixels, but I can't remember what it is called... posterization? I still saw this with the 1080p dlp sets.

Next I went over to the 61" samsung which was showing some nature show. It looked much better then the smaller sets and didn't seem to have this motion artifacing, though that was probably the source. I did see SSE on this set. I've seen this before on microdisplays but never knew the proper name for it. It didn't bother me before and still doesn't bother me at all.

61" wasn't bad, but I still wanted to see what JVC and sony had coming. So I asked the sales guy on the way out when they expected to get some sxrd sets. They said later next week (which has went buy and as we now they aren't shipped yet) and mentioned they had the 70" qualia. Well I had never seen a qualia set yet, so I figured what the heck.

They set was in it's own room playing Toy Story on dvd. Wow. Just displaying SD it looked wonderful. No motion problems, no SDE, with great colors and sharpness. No other set there could match it in my eyes. I can't wait to see the 60" version.

If they don't have the WEGA GATE then do you know something that Sony does not?

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=tv_ProjectionTVs_RearProjection_42to51TVs&ProductSKU=KDSR50XBR1&Dept=tvvideo&INT=sstyle-tvvideo-deptfeature-KDSR50XBR1|sstyle:sy_dept_content_b:tvvideo

Yeah, the website's wrong. They copied the page from one of their LCD models and edited it to fit the new TV. If you can stomach reading through this thread again, you'll see there were other mistakes that were rectified within a few hours of the set being advertised on SonyStyle. Some mistakes are still there. The Features tab tells you it has DRC MF V1 circuitry, but the Specs tab shows it has the V2. V2 is right, and there was a picture taken at Cedia shown on this thread (I think) that indicates that (it was a pic of the TV main features). The specs page also says 1 HDMI input. There are actually 2 of them (1 of them with analog audio input), as the manual says and as Cedia observers have confirmed. There's no WEGA GATE, contrary to what the website says.

Everything so far as pointed towards manual being right, website wrong. The site is still wrong (anyone here used the feedback button on SonyStyle regarding those mistakes ?).

Now you have someone above who confirmed that by a phone conversation. What more do you want ?

Dear I Can Help,

Thanks for the reply.

You're welcome.

OK Here it is.

I got off the phone with a senior tech with Sony this past week. Let me lay to rest some rumors that have been floating around. He had the TV in his office and we tested every feature it had for hours. Here is what I found out.

Wega Gate absolutely no, why? This TV is heavily based on the technology (software/hardware) from the Quailia 006. The software at the time did not include Wega Gate. So in a since the A10s and A20s have newer software.

1080p over HDMI absolutely no, why? Again the Quailia does not have it. This TV is not a new TV just a smaller version of the Quailia.

1080p over VGA? We fed this thing everything we had and it displayed it all. 1080p was by what he observed as over scanned. 1280 X 1024 looked the best by what he saw. You just have to hit the wide button on the remote and he said it looked great.

After all the time we spent on this TV it really comes down to the fact that this TV is a Little brother/ cousin to the Quailia. He stated that Sonys current plans with the Quailia are to keep it at the top for a while longer (exact words were “We plan to milk the 006 it for as long as we can"). Quailia is in the Sony world what Corvettes are to the General Motors world. After 11 short months all TV manufactures are catching up with what the 006 has had all along. Why expect anything better. We can only expect bigger and better things in the months ahead.

Great post. That's what I thought.

The 50" and 60" SXRDs are little Qualias. Sony probably made them so as not to fall behind on the 1080p TV market. Uses the same electronics, an existing cabinet, an existing screen (perhaps improved though), an existing software... etc. The only new thing is the latest generation of the SXRD chip, newer than on the Qualia. I'm guessing the next generation will be a truly new set, with more than just the SXRD chip changing. Considering all the favorable reports on these sets, I can only imagine how good a completely new set is gonna be. :)

So this means no 1:1 pixel mapping? Excuse my ignorance regarding 1:1, but right now I'm sending 1744x988 to my crappy panny crt via component cables so I haven't had any experience with this stuff. Is this only for vga or can hdmi 1:1 map? Can you elimante overscan for all sources in the display easily (without messing with service mode)?

According to the user manual for these new sets, there's a menu option to control overscan. I guess we won't know how well it works until someone tries it (hint to those taking an HTPC to a shop :D). But I don't know if it can still be tuly called 1:1 pixel mapping if you have to change the overscan... Same as when using a video card driver to zoom the picture in/out to fit a TV (I know NVidia drivers can do that): is it really 1:1 mapping then ?

Yeah, the website's wrong. They copied the page from one of their LCD models and edited it to fit the new TV. If you can stomach reading through this thread again, you'll see there were other mistakes that were rectified within a few hours of the set being advertised on SonyStyle. Some mistakes are still there. The Features tab tells you it has DRC MF V1 circuitry, but the Specs tab shows it has the V2. V2 is right, and there was a picture taken at Cedia shown on this thread (I think) that indicates that (it was a pic of the TV main features). The specs page also says 1 HDMI input. There are actually 2 of them (1 of them with analog audio input), as the manual says and as Cedia observers have confirmed. There's no WEGA GATE, contrary to what the website says.

Everything so far as pointed towards manual being right, website wrong. The site is still wrong (anyone here used the feedback button on SonyStyle regarding those mistakes ?).

Now you have someone above who confirmed that by a phone conversation. What more do you want ?



You're welcome.



Great post. That's what I thought.

The 50" and 60" SXRDs are little Qualias. Sony probably made them so as not to fall behind on the 1080p TV market. Uses the same electronics, an existing cabinet, an existing screen (perhaps improved though), an existing software... etc. The only new thing is the latest generation of the SXRD chip, newer than on the Qualia. I'm guessing the next generation will be a truly new set, with more than just the SXRD chip changing. Considering all the favorable reports on these sets, I can only imagine how good a completely new set is gonna be. :)

I can imagine that I will be trading my A-10 for the 2nd, or 3rd generation SXRD. One issue I still have with all this is that the source material is so variable, that no matter how great a TV you have, it only shows its true potential on a handfull of programs. We need a LOT more HIGH QUALITY HD programs, AND a better quality DVD to get the most out of these TV's. My new A-10 looks amazing on Leno and Letterman, but few shows match that quality today. The SXRD is even better than the A-10...too bad there isn't much to watch on it that can show its true potential.

[QUOTE=

The 50" and 60" SXRDs are little Qualias. Sony probably made them so as not to fall behind on the 1080p TV market. Uses the same electronics, an existing cabinet, an existing screen (perhaps improved though), an existing software... etc. The only new thing is the latest generation of the SXRD chip, newer than on the Qualia. I'm guessing the next generation will be a truly new set, with more than just the SXRD chip changing. Considering all the favorable reports on these sets, I can only imagine how good a completely new set is gonna be. :)[/QUOTE]

Do the SXRD's have the option to change the name of the input?

I am going to be upgrading from a 10 year old XBR and want to know if 12' away from a 50" will have a big enough impact for that theater like viewing experience. At this point I am leaning towards the 50" SXRD but my wife wants bigger. Can't spend more than about $3600. on a new set. I have seen the 50A10 and like it alot. Question is, does anyone know about a 60" LCD RPTV with the A10's advanced iris coming out anytime soon? I really like the A20 cabinet and would love to get a 60", but I also want the iris.

I am going to be upgrading from a 10 year old XBR and want to know if 12' away from a 50" will have a big enough impact for that theater like viewing experience. At this point I am leaning towards the 50" SXRD but my wife wants bigger. Can't spend more than about $3600. on a new set. I have seen the 50A10 and like it alot. Question is, does anyone know about a 60" LCD RPTV with the A10's advanced iris coming out anytime soon? I really like the A20 cabinet and would love to get a 60", but I also want the iris.

At 12' definitely go bigger to the 60". It's rare for the wife to ask to go with the larger set so grab it. The SXRD has no SDE at that range and the minimum THX VD and Sony is 7.5' I believe so you are easily in the 60" range. It may seem large at first after having a CRT but will shrink after 2 weeks and with 16:9 HD viewing will be immersive at least until you get the bug for the 70".

Go for it as long as you have the budget for it - oops I didn't read on to your budget of $3,600.00 - The A10 comes highly recommended though or have you considered the Panasonic Plasma PX500? Haven't seen the JVC 1080P but it may be in your budget at 61" DiLA (LCos) as it's supposed to debut by the end of this month or early October. There were very good reports from CEDIA last week on the JVC and should be the best bang for the buck to get Lcos and 1080P but the A10 will definitely save you since they can be had for under $2500. Good Luck! :D

Not interested in plasma (glass screen/reflections) and I really like Sony. Guess I will just have to wait and see if sony will put the advanced iris in a larger LCD set. It still mystifies me why the "lower end" A10's have the iris and the A20's don't.

I am going to be upgrading from a 10 year old XBR and want to know if 12' away from a 50" will have a big enough impact for that theater like viewing experience. At this point I am leaning towards the 50" SXRD but my wife wants bigger. Can't spend more than about $3600. on a new set. I have seen the 50A10 and like it alot. Question is, does anyone know about a 60" LCD RPTV with the A10's advanced iris coming out anytime soon? I really like the A20 cabinet and would love to get a 60", but I also want the iris.

Ye Gods man, I don't care what tv you buy - send me your wife asap. I'll pay the shipping.

At 12 feet, you definitely want at least a 60" set, even larger, for that theater-like impact you're both looking for.

If it were me and I were limited to approx. $3,600, I'd do two things: (1) start saving my pennies up and, (2) be patient for a little while and watch the price on the 60XBR1 with XSRD, iris and all the other goodies come down over time.

I'm no industry mogul, but I believe there's far too much competition right now for any of these new sets to command MSRP for very long.

Ye Gods man, I don't care what tv you buy - send me your wife asap. I'll pay the shipping.

At 12 feet, you definitely want at least a 60" set, even larger, for that theater-like impact you're both looking for.

If it were me and I were limited to approx. $3,600, I'd do two things: (1) start saving my pennies up and, (2) be patient for a little while and watch the price on the 60XBR1 with XSRD, iris and all the other goodies come down over time.

I'm no industry mogul, but I believe there's far too much competition right now for any of these new sets to command MSRP for very long.


Just thought everyone should know: With regards to pricing, the sets are already being discounted up to 20% at various online stores, from MSRP.

Rahi

In an attempt to not clutter this thread with additional information regarding the mechanics of Interlaced & Progressive video and how they might relate to MIA 1080p inputs, I have posted additional information in response to recent posts by Roller11, Solomita, Owen, Sophie and Bholub in the following thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6209999#post6209999

Ah good. I was afraid we might be interfering with the SSE discussion. 8-)

I can imagine that I will be trading my A-10 for the 2nd, or 3rd generation SXRD. One issue I still have with all this is that the source material is so variable, that no matter how great a TV you have, it only shows its true potential on a handfull of programs. We need a LOT more HIGH QUALITY HD programs, AND a better quality DVD to get the most out of these TV's. My new A-10 looks amazing on Leno and Letterman, but few shows match that quality today. The SXRD is even better than the A-10...too bad there isn't much to watch on it that can show its true potential.

Alan, true we need more HD content. How does SD look on your A10 and what distance are you viewing it?

Ye Gods man, I don't care what tv you buy - send me your wife asap. I'll pay the shipping.

At 12 feet, you definitely want at least a 60" set, even larger, for that theater-like impact you're both looking for.

If it were me and I were limited to approx. $3,600, I'd do two things: (1) start saving my pennies up and, (2) be patient for a little while and watch the price on the 60XBR1 with XSRD, iris and all the other goodies come down over time.

I'm no industry mogul, but I believe there's far too much competition right now for any of these new sets to command MSRP for very long.

Heck she really wants a Front projector (I guess size does matter to women :) ). I just don't think that's possible in a medium sized living room like ours. I wouldn't mind the 60" I just hope either the SXRD prices fall quickly, or Sony wises up and puts a dynamic iris in all of their microdisplay sets.

BTW, my wife is NOT for sale. Just call me lucky! :p

Heck she really wants a Front projector (I guess size does matter to women :) ).I was just about to mention front projection as an option. They have really fallen in price recently, and you can definitely get a pretty good one within your budget. The one thing to keep in mind when considering a front projector, however, is that you must have a light controlled environment. They only look their best when there is little or no ambient light. Since this will be for your living room, a rear projector is probably a more logical choice.

Heck she really wants a Front projector (I guess size does matter to women :) ). I just don't think that's possible in a medium sized living room like ours. I wouldn't mind the 60" I just hope either the SXRD prices fall quickly, or Sony wises up and puts a dynamic iris in all of their microdisplay sets.

BTW, my wife is NOT for sale. Just call me lucky! :p

Does she have a sister?

I saw the 50" SXRD at the Sony Store in Yorkdale Mall, Toronto today; I could hardly believe it was there (what with Canada always getting things a litter later than the US), but apparently the president of Sony Canada will be at that store tomorrow and they HAD to have an sxrd on display. The 60" is also on it's way but is unlikely to make it there for tomorrow.

The sxrd was in one of those darkened rooms, sitting next to a 60" XS and a 55" A20. Thankfully, the salesman was quite happy to adjust the color settings on all three from vivid to pro mode and tone down the excessive sharpness. This was hardly a proper calibration but I basically wanted to compare the sxrd to the other 2 models without those horrid factory settings.

First we watched a Coldplay concert in HD, then PBS HD, then a football pre-game show on FOX HD, and then a few SD channels.

The most obvious difference was how deep the blacks were on the sxrd - an immediate thought was that the picture was very plasma-like. However, I can't say I actually saw any more shadow detail than on the other tvs, hard as I looked for it; if there was a difference, it was marginal to me. (To be fair, it may have been the sources...?) The reds were also much deeper and lacked the orangey hue seen on the other models. Sadly, I don't think it handled SD channels any better than my 50" Panny dlp (although the Panny supposedly does a good job of this).

Overall, the sxrd had a SLIGHTLY better PQ than the others, but I feel this was mainly due to the increased black levels. I don't feel the increased resolution of 1080p made the picture any more detailed than the other 2 models, and this was what most surprised me. If anything, I would have expected the smallest screen with the highest resolution to easily have the best picture, to be the most crt-like in terms of sharpness. Unfortunately, I can't say the sxrd blew either of the other 2 models away, most especially the A20! I can now totally understand why many of you are snapping up the 50" A10 rather than pay the premium for the 50" sxrd. The difference in PQ simply isn't that noticeable aside from the blacks. I personally want the 60" model and will hold out hope that the improvement in PQ becomes much more substantial at the larger size. If not, I may start checking out prices on A20's.

As for never-ending topic of SSE: I can't help here as I agree with those who don't want their viewing experience ruined by something they can't already see. I immediately skip past ANY post where I quickly scan 'SSE' or 'sparklies'!!

Finally, for those concerned about Wega-gate, I had salesman open the menu - it simply said MENU at the top of the screen, whereas the menu opened on the A20 clearly said Wega-gate. Thus, it appears NOT to have this feature. I can't really comment on the shiny bezel as it wasn't apparent in the dimly-lit room.

Although these are just my amateur opinions, I hope this is some help to you all!

webspinner,

Thanks for the review! Any opinions, good, bad or otherwise are always much appreciated around here. :)



Overall, the sxrd had a SLIGHTLY better PQ than the others, but I feel this was mainly due to the increased black levels. I don't feel the increased resolution of 1080p made the picture any more detailed than the other 2 models, and this was what most surprised me.What about SDE? I would think the lack of SDE would be the SXRD's main advantage over its lower resolution brethren.

Webspinner

Thanks for your post about the SXRD.

I think you confirmed that on the 50" model, the difference is fairly small.

Can you go back when the 60" model arrives?? ;)

Heck she really wants a Front projector (I guess size does matter to women :) ). I just don't think that's possible in a medium sized living room like ours. I wouldn't mind the 60" I just hope either the SXRD prices fall quickly, or Sony wises up and puts a dynamic iris in all of their microdisplay sets.

BTW, my wife is NOT for sale. Just call me lucky! :p

The only way you will come close to theater like impact is with a front projector. 50, 60, 70 inches are nice - but there is nothing like 100+ inches. If you don't have room for a PJ, listen to that smart wife of yours, and get the 60" set.

What about SDE? I would think the lack of SDE would be the SXRD's main advantage over its lower resolution brethren.

Unlike SSE, SDE usually hits me in the face in the B&M stores (it's the reason I bought dlp instead of 3lcd last year) but the Sony Store MUST have put some effort into the picture adjustments on this particular XS and A20. From a distance of about 6', SDE was quite low on the XS, but surprisingly, it was NOT apparent on the A20. Now, I know that if I had moved closer, the SDE would have become visible, but from a practical standpoint, who sits closer than 6' from a 55" tv for regular viewing? :) The sxrd simply didn't outshine the A20 in anything but black levels. (I should have clarified earlier that the A20 was definitely ahead of the XS in the 3-way comparison.)

JimP, you can bet I'll be there the first day the 60" is there (which should be early this week). Let's hope I have better news to report then!

Let me also say that I really, REALLY want to like the sxrd and hate to have to give a mediocre report. I've been reading this thread since it's inception, after deciding against the Sammy 6168 - maybe my expectations were too worked up?

I just talked to a saleman at one of the Sony Stores in Vancouver. He claimed that the new SXRD's have a newer WEGA engine than in the Qualia.

The quality of the blacks on the SXRD's is a huge selling point for me ... I will not own a TV that gives "gray blacks" ... I hate them with a passion!

"Anamorphic" DVD's from my high end DVD player look amazing on my Sony KV-36XBR400 ... I am concerned about how these SD DVD's will look on the 50" SXRD. If they look terrible I may wait for Blu-ray to get established before going to the larger screen.

None of the stores here have one yet, but as soon as one comes into their store he will be giving me a call (in fact I have my number at a few of the stores!).

I can imagine that I will be trading my A-10 for the 2nd, or 3rd generation SXRD. One issue I still have with all this is that the source material is so variable, that no matter how great a TV you have, it only shows its true potential on a handfull of programs. We need a LOT more HIGH QUALITY HD programs, AND a better quality DVD to get the most out of these TV's. My new A-10 looks amazing on Leno and Letterman, but few shows match that quality today. The SXRD is even better than the A-10...too bad there isn't much to watch on it that can show its true potential.

That's true. It can only be as good as what you feed it. Though in some cases, processing makes it look a little better.

Do the SXRD's have the option to change the name of the input?

Yes, according to the manual.

Alan, true we need more HD content. How does SD look on your A10 and what distance are you viewing it?

My point is that even with HD programs, they are not all created equal. They range from OK, to amazing. (Watch Leno, or Letterman to see what your HDTV is capable of) Most shows fall somewhere in the middle of that. I am watching at a distance of 12 feet, and yes a 60 inch would be better, but the 50 fits in my very nice cabinet, so that I what I went with. Even if the SXRD is far better than the A-10, you won't see its full potential all that often. SD varies a lot too...some of it is quite watchable, and some truly stinks. It's the garbage in - garbage out syndrome for sure. From what I observed at CEDIA , and read on here, most people wanting the 50 incher may as well as save some cash and buy the A-10. That was my conclusion for now, and so far I am well pleased with the A-10 overall. The quality of the PROGRAMS limits the TV far more than it's own ablilities.

I think that there is enough quality HDTV to justify the expense of the 50" SXRD (even the Qualia if I had the money and room). One other program that exhibits not only excellent resolution, but very natural life like colors is "Great Canadian Rivers" on Discovery HD. I have amazed some friends with that series.

The best picture I have seen on the Qualia came from an uncompressed recording of a PBS HD series on Africa. The picture was breath taking .... the Qualia became a window on Africa!

And SD DVD's can very from poor to "near" HD quality.

" "SXRD 's have the ability to change the name of the input?" "

Yes, according to the manual.

:eek:. Wow! That's great to hear. Do you know how many characters (/numbers) can be inputed? Thanks.

The quality of the blacks on the SXRD's is a huge selling point for me ... I will not own a TV that gives "gray blacks" ... I hate them with a passion!I feel the exact same way. I will be putting the 60" SXRD in my basement, and almost all of my viewing will be done with the lights off. Given this fact, I am definitely willing to pay a premium for better blacks. Even if this was the only improvement over the A10/20 (and I highly doubt this is the case), it's still worth it to me.

Adding my two bits to the observations about this TV, Imagine I walk into the Yorkdale store just after Webspinner. The HD feed was Rogers cable of a Fox NFL game this Sunday afternoon fed through a distribution system of component cables. All televisions we fed the same material and similar signal quality. I sat like I would at home 7 to 8 feet from the screen. The brightness was even and strong well off of center line and that shift of dark areas to a deep blue or purple like an LCD was virtually none existent.

The 55" A20 was cranked right up and was giving quite a show of contrast. The SXRD was just as good but did not have the shinny plastic look of the WE at the screen. I can see a novice not seeing quickly any difference between the LCD’s and the SXRD if the setting are set in a devious way

. And the SX some one had dropped the contrast very low and you could see small details in the darkness but the picture was very soft, whites were gray and that dark front over screen was making it look like you were watching the picture through a very fine black scarf. The 50” XBR had all the details of the SX but with the punch of the A20. It does not have all the Wow factor of plasma but a good 80% of that look. And blacks were inky black. The screen not as dark as the SX when power was off completely. Even with out HDMI connection I could tell the difference in the cameras Fox was using. The picture was set softer then the A20 if I looked for it but it over all seemed like more information, not less.

The most overwhelming impression I came away with was a relaxed very casual attitude while watching. Audiophiles will under stand how a drive belt is more relaxed then a direct drive, or tubes can be much more relaxing experience then the same music a digital amplifier. Watching the XBR was a laid back feeling. Maybe that film like quality and lack of SDE and mosquito noise of Plasma combined with some fine Sony XBR programming for Picture quality. I believe the true PQ of this set is something to be discovered over a number of weeks not minutes.

[QUOTE=HiDef Bob]I think that there is enough quality HDTV to justify the expense of the 50" SXRD (even the Qualia if I had the money and room). [quote]

Definetely. Even if there wasnt enough quality HDTV, there will be more and more in the future. I know a lot here are buying sets and planning to buy new ones in a couple of years, but i bet there are a lot of people like me who want this expensive item to last 8 years or so, so the thing to do is buy the best technology you can afford at the moment. Thats what i did with my computer over 3-1/2 years ago, and its still good today. I will buy the 60" SXRD and whatever better comes out in the next few years, oh well, such is life.

Can someone PM a link to a site that has 20% off MSRP (or give me the name of the store if it's B&M....though I doubt it ;) )

yardman

You repeatedly reference xrb - do you mean sxrd?

What DVD player do folks plan on using with the SXRD?

No, just trying to not to repeat my self too much and, the 50" KDS-R50XBR1, and KDS-R60XBR1 are Sony XBR televisions, right?

No, just trying to not to repeat my self too much and, the 50" KDS-R50XBR1, and KDS-R60XBR1 are Sony XBR televisions, right?

No they are of the SXRD line.

:eek:. Wow! That's great to hear. Do you know how many characters (/numbers) can be inputed? Thanks.


Err... no idea. I don't think it says in the manual.

By the way, you guys know the manual is on Sony's website, right ? Anyone can see it.

... and reading it more closely, it seems you choose from pre-defined names for the inputs. For regular channels, you can name them whatever you want.

No they are of the SXRD line.

SXRD is the technology. XBR is Sony's high-end label (below Qualia though).

I saw it on Ebay. Just type in Sony SXRD and the listing will come up. Some friends also told me of online availability through online stores, but I haven't had time to check yet.

Just thought everyone should know: With regards to pricing, the sets are already being discounted up to 20% at various online stores, from MSRP.

Considering Sony has total and tight control over distribution channels presently how could this be true? I've not seen a single "Legitimate" online store selling the SXRD's for such a discount. I'm quite aware of some fraudulent sites that advertise they have stock when in fact they cannot since Sony and only Sony decides where they go and initially they have limited vendors first and all of them are selling MSRP as listed on-line.

I'd suspect anyone advertising otherwise since many of the SonyStyle Stores don't have them yet. I think you could auction off these 20% discounts on Ebay if they're real on the SXRD's the only such sale I've observed that come close are the XS and older XRB's being phased out. I'd grab any such discount in a heartbeat and many of stated this but no proof has been provided on the forum.

20% would be fantastic but not how Sony operates out of the gate with new technology.

I guess I get to eat crow - I've been a power seller and buyer on Ebay for over 7 years and I'm familiar with them. I cannot post pricing or name or link due to rules but your correct. Just have to make sure you inspect well as they do not do returns once delivered - I guess you'd have to enforce replacements via Sony Support under warranty. :D

SXRD is the technology. XBR is Sony's high-end label (below Qualia though).

Ah damn, your right. To many acronyms!!! http://toabase.com/uploads/smil42054c264e226.gif

I checked out the new 60" SXRD and 70" Qualia and compared to the new Mitsu
62" and 73" 1080p DLPs. Unfortunately they were all in different rooms and had
different sources hooked up. Here are some impressions between 60" and 73":

All sets looked awesome on HD content. The Sony displayed analog remarkably
well, the best I've seen on RPTV. The Mitsu was a notch below the Sony here.

DVDs looked excellent on both, but 73" Mitsu was hooked to a Denon 3910 and
that was the best I have ever seen a DVD look ("Seabiscuit"). The HDMI DVD
player that was hooked to the Sony was "cheap" though, and it showed. But I
felt that the Mitsu (with Deepfield) beat the Sony on black levels. I was a little
disappointed. Could this be the player? I did like that you could adjust the iris
on the Sony.

I don't have a space issue concerning the speakers on the Sony, however, I felt
they looked stupid. At least the Qualia's were removable. The other problem
was the 60" had a very shiny bezel and was often a distraction. A little tape
would solve that problem though. The Mistu on the other hand had a very nice
and attractive cabinet.

I was expecting to like the Sony best but I'd give a slight edge to the Mitsu until
I am able to evaluate them more thoroughly and equally. However, a big problem with the Mistu is that it can only take XGA PC input (HDMI) whereas the Sony will
take full HD (VGA) . I don't want to pay an extra $3k to get that feature on the
Mitsu. They did have "1080p" going over 1394 into the Mitsu from a hard drive
but I could not confirm the details. Looked awesome.

They told me I could bring in my computer or other equipment to hook up and test
the sets. Any recommendations?

One thing that I am sold on is upgrading to a quality DVD player like the Denon.
Damn! that was a nice picture even after the TV upconverted the player's 720p
to 1080p.

Regarding renaming the inputs:

:eek:. Wow! That's great to hear. Do you know how many characters (/numbers) can be inputed? Thanks.

Unfortunately, as with another XBR I have, the labels are predetermined. It's better than nothing, but it would be way more desirable to input your own.

According to the manual, your choices for Video 1-3 are:

Video 1-3, VHS, DVD, Receiver, Satellite, Cable Box, 8mm, DTV, Game, LD, Beta, (and Skip).

Your choices for Video 4-7 are:

Video 4-7, DVD, Satellite, Cable Box, DTV, HD, Game, PVR, (and Skip).

Video 8 (PC) can be skipped but not renamed.

Considering Sony has total and tight control over distribution channels presently how could this be true? I've not seen a single "Legitimate" online store selling the SXRD's for such a discount. I'm quite aware of some fraudulent sites that advertise they have stock when in fact they cannot since Sony and only Sony decides where they go and initially they have limited vendors first and all of them are selling MSRP as listed on-line.

I'd suspect anyone advertising otherwise since many of the SonyStyle Stores don't have them yet. I think you could auction off these 20% discounts on Ebay if they're real on the SXRD's the only such sale I've observed that come close are the XS and older XRB's being phased out. I'd grab any such discount in a heartbeat and many of stated this but no proof has been provided on the forum.

20% would be fantastic but not how Sony operates out of the gate with new technology.

I guess I get to eat crow - I've been a power seller and buyer on Ebay for over 7 years and I'm familiar with them. I cannot post pricing or name or link due to rules but your correct. Just have to make sure you inspect well as they do not do returns once delivered - I guess you'd have to enforce replacements via Sony Support under warranty. :D

Actually looks to be over 20% off list with free DVD but if you cannot return
the set I would not do it. What if you have a few dead pixels - the warranty
doesn't cover it and you would be stuck with the set.

According to the manual, your choices for Video 1-3 are:

Video 1-3, VHS, DVD, Receiver, Satellite, Cable Box, 8mm, DTV, Game, LD, Beta, (and Skip).

Your choices for Video 4-7 are:

Video 4-7, DVD, Satellite, Cable Box, DTV, HD, Game, PVR, (and Skip).

Video 8 (PC) can be skipped but not renamed.While we're on the subject of video inputs, are there discrete commands available if I want to set up some macros on my MX-850 (http://www.universalremote.com/products/index.php?item=mx850) remote?

Actually looks to be over 20% off list with free DVD but if you cannot return the set I would not do it. What if you have a few dead pixels - the warranty doesn't cover it and you would be stuck with the set.I agree. There is no way I would buy something this expensive without a "no questions asked" return policy. You might be able to save yourself a few bucks, but it's just not worth the risk.

Unlike SSE, SDE usually hits me in the face in the B&M stores (it's the reason I bought dlp instead of 3lcd last year) but the Sony Store MUST have put some effort into the picture adjustments on this particular XS and A20. From a distance of about 6', SDE was quite low on the XS, but surprisingly, it was NOT apparent on the A20. Now, I know that if I had moved closer, the SDE would have become visible, but from a practical standpoint, who sits closer than 6' from a 55" tv for regular viewing? :) The sxrd simply didn't outshine the A20 in anything but black levels. (I should have clarified earlier that the A20 was definitely ahead of the XS in the 3-way comparison.)

JimP, you can bet I'll be there the first day the 60" is there (which should be early this week). Let's hope I have better news to report then!

Let me also say that I really, REALLY want to like the sxrd and hate to have to give a mediocre report. I've been reading this thread since it's inception, after deciding against the Sammy 6168 - maybe my expectations were too worked up?

Good report :) With lights on in a showroom i dont expect Sxrd to outshine Lcd-there to good at that... Its when you get the lcd home with some lights turned down you notice how bad the black levels are-grey-blue- :(

Especially in the smaller sizes 42-50 will be the worst... :(

The HDMI DVD
player that was hooked to the Sony was "cheap" though, and it showed. But I
felt that the Mitsu (with Deepfield) beat the Sony on black levels. I was a little
disappointed. Could this be the player? I did like that you could adjust the iris
on the Sony.

I was expecting to like the Sony best but I'd give a slight edge to the Mitsu until
I am able to evaluate them more thoroughly and equally.
They told me I could bring in my computer or other equipment to hook up and test
the sets. Any recommendations?



As you say, evaluate them more equally. Hook the DVD player (or one like it) that was on the Mits to the Sony. As to black levels, on many Denon DVD players, you can select black to be at either level 0 or 7. Then, you need to calibrate the TV to that standard. In other words, you need to calibrate the TV to the DVD player before making a meaningful evaluation.

What DVD player do folks plan on using with the SXRD?

IF (that is still a big IF) I buy the 50" SXRD it will be the Naim DVD5 (the PQ from this high end DVD player is the best that I have seen in its price range ... I suspect that only the Linn and Meridan can better it).

What I will be looking for when I get to see the SXRD's for myself ...

1. How intrusive are the useless speakers (depth)
2. How bad do SD DVD's look on the 50" SXRD
3. Are the blacks really as good as everyone says
4. Are the SXRD's as good off axis as the Qualia
5. What are the pluses and minuses of the SXRD to the Qualia
6. How does the over all HD PQ measure up to my tube XBR400 ... is it close, or noticeably inferior.

Do I want to wait for next year's model? This TV is going to be a 6-10 year investment. I know better sets will come out after I make the commitment, but I certainly can live with that ... I have in the past. I just want to be sure I am happy with the one I finally decide to buy.

There is a dealer in this city that has an awesome professional disk system with hundreds of DVD's and uncompressed HDTV programming that they can feed to all TV's in the store ... the same video signal or different signals. It is made in California. They have the Qualia and other Sony TV's on display. It will be easy to compare the sets. They are a high end professional as well as a consumer audio/ video dealer so they know their stuff.

Especially in the smaller sizes 42-50 will be the worst... :(

Why would this be worse in the smaller sets? I'm was planning on getting the 50" SXRD since I'll be sitting about 8 feet away but there have been a few comments like this which have made me question if the 50" is the correct size or not. Thanks.
Also, the reviews seem to go from "ok" to "awesome" so I can't wait to see one for myself. I just saw HD football on a friend's 46" Tosihba DLP and thought the image looked great so may the SXRD will look even better to me.

Dave

Wow, he didn't break forum rules one time, he broke them three times! Good job mikeytmaxx!

<sarcasm off>

Wow, he didn't break forum rules one time, he broke them three times! Good job mikeytmaxx!

<sarcasm off>

With a post count of 2 or 3, who do you think it really is? So easy to change screen names. lol

Wow, he didn't break forum rules one time, he broke them three times! Good job mikeytmaxx!

<sarcasm off>
I am new to this forum, so i am not sure what you mean when you say i broke forum rules, can you please explain how i broke the rules.... thank you

I am new to this forum, so i am not sure what you mean when you say i broke forum rules, can you please explain how i broke the rules.... thank youThere's a rule about not listing any prices other than MSRP.

There's a rule about not listing any prices other than MSRP.
I was not aware of this, I apologize, Is there a way I can remove that post?

I am new to this forum, so I am not sure what you mean when you say I broke forum rules, can you please explain how I broke the rules.... thank youHere is a link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4818528&&#post4818528) to the rules.

Why would this be worse in the smaller sets? I'm was planning on getting the 50" SXRD since I'll be sitting about 8 feet away but there have been a few comments like this which have made me question if the 50" is the correct size or not. Thanks.
Also, the reviews seem to go from "ok" to "awesome" so I can't wait to see one for myself. I just saw HD football on a friend's 46" Tosihba DLP and thought the image looked great so may the SXRD will look even better to me.

Dave

50Sxrd should have much better blacks than 50lcd. This is why everyone is so excited about these sets...And the least amount of SDE :)

50Sxrd should have much better blacks than 50lcd. This is why everyone is so excited about these sets...And the least amount of SDE :)

The lack of SDE at closer viewing distances is probably the greatest advantage of SXRD over the A-10/20 etc. I have the 50 inch A-10, and can see SDE at around 8 feet and closer. I really don't like being that close to the screen anyhow though. For my taste, the perfect distance for a 50 inch TV would be about 9-10 feet. It will be interesting to see how perfect the blacks really are on the SXRD, and are they at the expense of shadow detail? I can say that the A-10 is much better on blacks than my GWIII was, but they still have a slight glow in dark scenes.

I just talked to a saleman at one of the Sony Stores in Vancouver. He claimed that the new SXRD's have a newer WEGA engine than in the Qualia.

I am curious, also. Several pages back I posted a question regarding a line found in the SXRD's Video Features section in the Specs:

"WEGA Engine™ system: WEGA Engine HD video."

None of the other Sony sets' specs I looked at had that phrase "WEGA Engine HD video." Only the SXRD's.

There were no replies to my original post. Anyone have a clue what, if anything, sets the SXRD WEGA Engine apart from the rest of the pack and how the above phrase plays into it?

Maybe there is a difference in "WEGA Engine" and "WEGA GATE"

The Wega Engine would appear to be the hardware/software utilized by the SXRD to take the incoming signal and turn it into an image on the screen. Wega Gate is a "user interface" piece of software used by the newer models. From previous postings here, the SXRD's will not have the Wega Gate functionality--they will have the same user interface as the Qualia.

The lack of SDE at closer viewing distances is probably the greatest advantage of SXRD over the A-10/20 etc. I have the 50 inch A-10, and can see SDE at around 8 feet and closer. I really don't like being that close to the screen anyhow though. For my taste, the perfect distance for a 50 inch TV would be about 9-10 feet. It will be interesting to see how perfect the blacks really are on the SXRD, and are they at the expense of shadow detail? I can say that the A-10 is much better on blacks than my GWIII was, but they still have a slight glow in dark scenes.



On Sunday as I watched the foot ball game on the SXRD There was no A10 in the room to compare to just the A20. The A20, I was trying to express was very strong bright picture very similar to the SXRD but as the close up cameras picked on one of the players faces the shadow detail under the brim of the helmet was a dark blob of mud. Some times you could see the out line of the upper face but no details. You could hardly make out eyes. The same apparent CR in the SXRD had flesh colour under the helmets and you could see the colour of the player’s eyes. The difference between the two displays at a glance was not apparent but watching and enjoying for a while the difference in the dark patches was night and day! Very impressive!

I agree. There is no way I would buy something this expensive without a "no questions asked" return policy. You might be able to save yourself a few bucks, but it's just not worth the risk.


Guys I have been reading this forum for awhile now and have not posted, cause I had nothing to add what so ever. But finally I think I can contribute :)

As far as wanting a good price and not wanting to get it someplace where you can't return the set I fully agree with you. That is why I took the information from here and what is on EBay, then went to that companies main website. From there I printed out where they had a Brick and Morter store in NY along with the price they where selling the 60" SXRD and took all that to Sears. As long as you have proof your price quote is from a B & M store they will price match it. But the internet site that you get your price quote from does have to have a B&M store, they won't except anything else.

I just got back from there and it worked out great for me. I will be receiving mine in approx 2 weeks he said. And even though I have not seen the set, you guys have pretty much convinsed me this is the set for me. Plus its nice to know I got the 60" set for cheaper than some are buying the 50" for :cool:

Thanks for all the great info guys, and I hope this info will help others :)

Originally Posted by HiDef Bob
I just talked to a saleman at one of the Sony Stores in Vancouver. He claimed that the new SXRD's have a newer WEGA engine than in the Qualia.


I guess I need to clarify.

All the other Sony sets I looked at had the feature: WEGA Engine™ system." Only the SXRD's say: "WEGA Engine™ system: WEGA Engine HD video."

So, I'm just wondering if the phrase "WEGA Engine HD Video" is what sets the SXRD video hardware/software apart and may be what the saleman quoted by HiDef Bob could be referring to. If it is, I wonder what's better about it. I could find no references whatsoever to "WEGA Engine HD Video" when I ran a search of the manual.

Perhaps it's just another error in the features list, like Wega Gate apparently is.

WEGA Engine has nothing to do with Wega Gate, the latter being a user interface accessed by the remote.

Don't mean to make a big deal out of this. Just curiosity while watching the clock s-l-o-w-l-y tic. Hope this doesn't add useless confusion.

Egad, re-reading the above I see I ended not one, but two sentences with a preposition. I should never post anything one day after an Eagles win. Hic.

Nice.

Thanks for the heads up.

On Sunday as I watched the foot ball game on the SXRD There was no A10 in the room to compare to just the A20. The A20, I was trying to express was very strong bright picture very similar to the SXRD but as the close up cameras picked on one of the players faces the shadow detail under the brim of the helmet was a dark blob of mud. Some times you could see the out line of the upper face but no details. You could hardly make out eyes. The same apparent CR in the SXRD had flesh colour under the helmets and you could see the colour of the player’s eyes. The difference between the two displays at a glance was not apparent but watching and enjoying for a while the difference in the dark patches was night and day! Very impressive!

That is good to hear, but the contrast levels on these tv's are very affected by what pic mode is in use, and how they are adjusted. The A-20 could have been in the 'torch' mode, or had the black corrector set on high. Hard to tell. Perhaps the SXRD is just much better in that regard too. Will be interesting to get more details about all this. Keep us all posted.

Originally Posted by HiDef Bob
I just talked to a saleman at one of the Sony Stores in Vancouver. He claimed that the new SXRD's have a newer WEGA engine than in the Qualia.

If it is, I wonder what's better about it.


The sales guy said "newer", not "better". You are jumping to conclusions to
assume they mean the same thing. Typically "newer" means "cheaper to
make", "cost reduced", more profit for the manufacturer.

By the way, list price for the 50" SXRD in Canada is $4999.95

Did you check to make sure the A20 was not in its default Vivid mode?


To yourself and AlanBuck you are both right in pointing that out no, I did not have the remotes for any of the TV's and adjusted nothing. I just sat and watched what was presented to me from the sets. It looked like the A20 was likely on something like Vivid and the SXRD had all of that punch and more. The SX beside it was adjusted dark, soft and full of information in the picture but no contrast at all with really dirty whites and no black just a smoky look and the SXRD seemed to have all it’s display secrets. I thought maybe the staff was trying to match up the A20 to the brightness of the XBR and the SX some one had tried to match the details hidden in the dark bits. In a store with out OTA Signal and with out using HDMI and a 720P broadcast from fox (is the signal up converted to 1080i by the Cable system?) shown in a dark room up converted to 1080P for the display I knew I was in control of nothing and just watched for what was there in the picture that was not just an adjustment or obvious flaw.

However, a big problem with the Mistu is that it can only take XGA PC input (HDMI) whereas the Sony will
take full HD (VGA) .

PC input implies VGA, which is analog and the res/display mode is whatever
is set on the PC's graphics card. What do you mean by
"XGA"/HDMI? No computer I'm aware of has HDMI output.
Of course most PC's have DVI out, but that would connect to the corresponding
input of the TV and not be specifically a PC input.


They told me I could bring in my computer or other equipment to hook up and test
the sets. Any recommendations?


I also plan to take my PC to the B&M when they get their SXRD sets. I have
saved off onto my hard drive several short .tp HDTV files that are
of exceptionally high quality so as to provide an evaluation
vehicle. For example, yesterdays Denver/SanDiego game was perhaps
the best HD I've ever seen on a football game, no edge
artifacts that are usually present on the players right side on the distance shots.
It was as clean and sharp as I've ever seen. Also, the Florida/Tenn. game on
Sat.nite was just about as good.
Be sure to get some .tp files where the source is an actual HD camera, as
opposed to the typical primetime show is shot in optical media, then
transfered to video post production. The only such primetime is "office" on NBC.
It's image quality is the absolute best. Or, record either Leno or Letterman,
they are also unprocessed HD video.

Since you'll be evaluating DLP sets, be sure to have scenes of actors faces.
The prob. with DLP tech is that they do dimly lit scenes poorly. In a static
close up scene, like a dialog scene, the lighting will usually make one side
of the face bright, the other side will be in variable shadow.
As the face comes out of the shadow on DLP, you will see greenish/gray
colorations that gradually give way to redish hues, then finally the correct
rendition, normal skin tones. Or, the overall color will be
more gray than dark skin tones, it's like there are not enough bits
to properly resolve darker scenes, i.e. poor gamma correction.
This prob with DLP's is known as "clay faces". Check for this defect
on both DLP's and SXRD.

It is my understanding that no B&M will have these sets until at least Sep. 26,
at the very earliest. What is the name and location of the store
where you saw this SXRD?

I think we can see some significant Sony price reductions in the future.

Just in case you missed the latest JVC press release on September 9, 2005, here are their latest prices for 1080P sets:

Model ApproximateRetail Price Available
HD-56FH96 $4,000 October 2005
HD-61FH96 $4,500 October 2005
HD-70FH96 $6,000 October 2005

Go to the JVC Press Room for the full press release.

PC input implies VGA, which is analog and the res/display mode is whatever
is set on the PC's graphics card. What do you mean by
"XGA"/HDMI? No computer I'm aware of has HDMI output.
Of course most PC's have DVI out, but that would connect to the corresponding
input of the TV and not be specifically a PC input.




I also plan to take my PC to the B&M when they get their SXRD sets. I have
saved off onto my hard drive several short .tp HDTV files that are
of exceptionally high quality so as to provide an evaluation
vehicle. For example, yesterdays Denver/SanDiego game was perhaps
the best HD I've ever seen on a football game, no edge
artifacts that are usually present on the players right side on the distance shots.
It was as clean and sharp as I've ever seen. Also, the Florida/Tenn. game on
Sat.nite was just about as good.
Be sure to get some .tp files where the source is an actual HD camera, as
opposed to the typical primetime show is shot in optical media, then
transfered to video post production. The only such primetime is "office" on NBC.
It's image quality is the absolute best. Or, record either Leno or Letterman,
they are also unprocessed HD video.

Since you'll be evaluating DLP sets, be sure to have scenes of actors faces.
The prob. with DLP tech is that they do dimly lit scenes poorly. In a static
close up scene, like a dialog scene, the lighting will usually make one side
of the face bright, the other side will be in variable shadow.
As the face comes out of the shadow on DLP, you will see greenish/gray
colorations that gradually give way to redish hues, then finally the correct
rendition, normal skin tones. Or, the overall color will be
more gray than dark skin tones, it's like there are not enough bits
to properly resolve darker scenes, i.e. poor gamma correction.
This prob with DLP's is known as "clay faces". Check for this defect
on both DLP's and SXRD.

It is my understanding that no B&M will have these sets until at least Sep. 26,
at the very earliest. What is the name and location of the store
where you saw this SXRD?

I totally agree that Letterman, and Leno are about the best shows to judge a HDTV. They have both bright and dark scenes, lots of color, face shots, etc. My A-10 really shines on this material. Makes me sad so many so-called HD programs fall far short of what is really possible. I'll have to check out that 'Office' show also. You are certainly right about DLP and the 'clay faces'. I tried a Sammy HLP-5063 last year. What a sucko TV. Clay faces, fuzzy PQ, rainbows...etc. The A-10 blows it away! The SXRD is no doubt even better!!

What are these clay faces people keep talking about? Are there any pictures showing this effect? As far as I can tell I haven't seen anything wrong with the faces on my DLP set. When I compare them with my 26" 720P LCD set, they look the same, only the 1080P DLP set shows more detail than my LCD does.

What are these clay faces people keep talking about? Are there any pictures showing this effect? As far as I can tell I haven't seen anything wrong with the faces on my DLP set. When I compare them with my 26" 720P LCD set, they look the same, only the 1080P DLP set shows more detail than my LCD does.

Maybe the 1080P is better in that area. On my DLP, the faces indeed looked like they were covered in clay, versus looking like real skin. It is kind of a weird effect that I have not seen on other types of TV's.

We need a LOT more HIGH QUALITY HD programs, AND a better quality DVD to get the most out of these TV's. My new A-10 looks amazing on Leno and Letterman, but few shows match that quality today. The SXRD is even better than the A-10...too bad there isn't much to watch on it that can show its true potential.

Yes, and the prob is getting worse on CBS. Last year there was less primetime
HD than in 2003. This year, a further reduction in primetime. In other words,
HD progs are being replaced by SD in primetime. My suggestion is to contact
all the networks (especially CBS) via Email and complain.
A big sore point with
me is that all networks except FOX make a special point of producing their
reality shows in Lo def. If ever a show begged for
HD, it is the survivor series. I've only seen promos, I won't reward CBS by watching
Survivor when they go out of their way to give us the ugliest, most unappealing
presentation possible. Ditto NBC and ABC, both do reality shows only in Lo def.

You seem to have an axe to grind against CBS. Personally, I think that CBS has a lot of HD programming: Everybody Loves Raymond, King of Queens, Still Standing, Two and Half Men, CSI (three flavors), Threshold and many more. Most are good quality HD to boot. Or are you complaining primarily about the lack of HD for reality shows? I would rather that Survivor and Amazing Race be in HD but I'm not going to refuse to watch them because they're not! Sure Fox have quite a lot of HD programs but unfortunately a lot of them seem to be prematurely cancelled! And the quality of others leaves a lot to be desired (soft). Btw, in case you were not already aware, there is a section of this forum dedicated to discussion of HDTV Programming and the subject of Survivor, etc. not being in HD regularly comes up.

At least CBS finally made Letterman HD...and it looks awesome! About as good as HD gets.

On Sunday as I watched the foot ball game on the SXRD There was no A10 in the room to compare to just the A20. The A20, I was trying to express was very strong bright picture very similar to the SXRD but as the close up cameras picked on one of the players faces the shadow detail under the brim of the helmet was a dark blob of mud. Some times you could see the out line of the upper face but no details. You could hardly make out eyes. The same apparent CR in the SXRD had flesh colour under the helmets and you could see the colour of the player’s eyes. The difference between the two displays at a glance was not apparent but watching and enjoying for a while the difference in the dark patches was night and day! Very impressive!

This effect is more likely to be a difference in calibration than SXRD vs. LCD. SXRD does not typically have much better color performance at low levels than LCD. SXRD will have superior response times, noise characteristics, contrast ratio and fill factor compared to LCD.

It is my understanding that no B&M will have these sets until at least Sep. 26,
at the very earliest. What is the name and location of the store
where you saw this SXRD?


I don't know for a fact where he saw it, but I'll take a stab in the dark. I saw it Sunday too, at a local business called A&B TV.

What are these clay faces people keep talking about? Are there any pictures showing this effect? As far as I can tell I haven't seen anything wrong with the faces on my DLP set. When I compare them with my 26" 720P LCD set, they look the same, only the 1080P DLP set shows more detail than my LCD does.

The reason I brought it up is because clay faces is one of those
defects you would never see in a showroom because only certain
types of material show it, and these things are never shown in
B&M showrooms. I'm talking about primetime shows such as
Law and Order, ER, NCIS, Joan of Arcadia...dramas more than comedies
cause they tend to have dimenished lighting. When was the last time you went
into a B&M and saw, say, Law and Order playing OTA? never I'll bet.
You will never see clay faces on HD Discovery, Leno, Letterman, CBS football
in HD, etc. they don't have closeups of actors faces in a dimly lit room with
a light source to one side to cast a subtle shadow.
The best source for C.F.
was "Joan of Arcadia" because that show had the best PQ of all primetime
progs shot on optical media. J of A had no graininess whatsoever, it was
absolutely clean so there was no 'grit', no video noise to mask the uneven skin tones. Unfortunately, J of A is gone so PQ of that caliber is only a memory.
Just to be clear, this effect is not limited to actors faces, that was just
an example. All dimly lit scenes are subject to it. I recall watching a scene
in "Smallville" last year where Clark Kent and Lex Luthor were running through
a basement lab at Luthor Corp...I was noticing how gray and
monochrome everything looked, as oppsed to natural colors that were
muted due to decreased lighting.

I don't like the way that Letterman has a few minutes of commercials, comes back for maybe 15-30 seconds (often only to say who's on next) and then goes away again for a few more minutes of commercials. Its bl**dy annoying!
That's what HD DVR's or HTPC's are for.
Either record and watch later, or, record and start watching 30 minutes later and FF the commercials.

(1) Toad, I don't think Sony cares what JVC is charging. They'll easily get a premium over JVC as they always have. And the SXRD sets are actually worth it.

(2) Aka, what commercials on Letterman? Have you heard of DVR? :)

I don't like the way that Letterman has a few minutes of commercials, comes back for maybe 15-30 seconds (often only to say who's on next) and then goes away again for a few more minutes of commercials. Its bl**dy annoying!

This is why I *never* watch anything in real time, I always record for
later playback. Helps a lot to fast forward over the commercials.

This is why I *never* watch anything in real time, I always record for
later playback. Helps a lot to fast forward over the commercials.

Amen to that ...God bless the DVR! :)

To yourself and AlanBuck you are both right in pointing that out no, I did not have the remotes for any of the TV's and adjusted nothing. I just sat and watched what was presented to me from the sets. It looked like the A20 was likely on something like Vivid and the SXRD had all of that punch and more. The SX beside it was adjusted dark, soft and full of information in the picture but no contrast at all with really dirty whites and no black just a smoky look and the SXRD seemed to have all it’s display secrets. I thought maybe the staff was trying to match up the A20 to the brightness of the XBR and the SX some one had tried to match the details hidden in the dark bits. In a store with out OTA Signal and with out using HDMI and a 720P broadcast from fox (is the signal up converted to 1080i by the Cable system?) shown in a dark room up converted to 1080P for the display I knew I was in control of nothing and just watched for what was there in the picture that was not just an adjustment or obvious flaw.

As I was in the store just before Yardman, I can clarify. The first salesman, as I mentioned, was helpful by setting all the tvs to pro mode and toning down the sharpness. However, a**hole salesman #2 came in later and rudely took over, restoring all tvs to vivid despite objections from 2 other salesmen and 2 customers - he even thought the obvious red push on the sxrd looked better. That was the point where I left (fuming, with quiet apologies from my salesman).

Just spoke with the head buyer for Sony, and indeed no CC store will have these before the last week of the month. He verified however that mine will be receiving ours during the last week of this month, and that the Northern CA distribution center will receive an order of 128 60" sets.

(No, that isn't very many, but Sony always does this. Lower supply...)

You seem to have an axe to grind against CBS (sorry, no offense intended ;-)
Personally, I think that CBS has a lot of HD programming: Everybody Loves Raymond, King of Queens, Still Standing, Two and Half Men, CSI (three flavors), Threshold and many more.

I have no axe to grind with CBS. I acknowledge they have the most HD primetime,
but that is a statement on just how lacking the other networks are. As long as
there is less than 100% HD, CBS should be increasing their HD, not decreasing it.
NBC and FOX are increasing, but they have a ways to go to catch CBS.
Of course at the rate CBS is replacing HD with SD, that may not take long.


Most are good quality HD to boot. Or are you complaining primarily about the lack of HD for reality shows?

Both.
As to quality, from day one I noticed how some shows are so
'grain free', and others are so grainy. The no-graininess list has been reduced
to just two, Still Standing and Yes dear, there were five such shows last year.

As to reality shows, FOX proved that there is no reason, no excuse for
making reality shows in lo def. CBS/NBC/ABC do lo def for the simpliest of all
reasons, because they're cheap. Mark Burnet, head of CBS, just built a
$28,000,000 estate in Malibu, yet he's too cheap to buy a $50,000
HDTV cam to film Survivor so we can see this show in all it's natural
beauty.


Btw, in case you were not already aware, there is a section of this forum dedicated to discussion of HDTV Programming and the subject of Survivor, etc. not being in HD regularly comes up.

Yes, I've got that thread bookmarked.
BTW, did you catch "Threshold"? I was fully expecting it to be grainy as, say,
"numbers" but I was pleasantly surprised at how high quality it was.
Not as good as "Joan of Arcadia" or "Still Standing", but up there. Much better
than NCIS, King of Queens, Cold case, Without a Trace, JAG (R.I.P), numbers, etc.

So where are all you guys PreOrdering these from? The big three that I know of are SonyStyle, Crutchfield and Sears. The 60" is looking good to me, and it's time to start haggling with who I need to be if there are more B&M stores around to be carrying them.

Sears with its 10% pricematch should cut out the tax and at least equal that of the online places. Plus it's local

Ultimate Electronics (UE) is also another source. They claim an ETA of 9/23 and you can place pre-orders now. They are discounting by at least 10%, maybe more if you can negotiate well and buy extras like the EW, etc.

Unfortunately that isn't a new york store :/

did someone know if the unit also handle
hd in 1920x1080i 50hz?

Guys I have been reading this forum for awhile now and have not posted, cause I had nothing to add what so ever. But finally I think I can contribute :) :) Snip


Shermadog,

Thanks for the tip. I live with in driving distance of Brooklyn, Manhattan etc. I hope Sears considers a 60 to 90 minute one way drive local though. I did not think about price matching with a local Sears. I was going to go with an online option that was out of NY state. But if Sears will price match and I can return locally should there be a problem I can't go wrong. The price should be pretty good.

I am waffling on what model to get but the SXRD is my top choice even though I have not seen it yet either. Good luck on your new TV!

Can anyone post a link to a website that discusses the "proper" size for
a HDTV set vs viewing distance? All I've seen is Voom's promo
that claims a 3:1 ratio of viewing distance to vertical height is
optimal. My cousin, who is bucks up and can afford any TV in existance,
tells me his wife won't allow a large screen TV in the living
room because she has a ridiculous notion that somehow smaller is better.
He is therefore stuck with a standard CRT that is only 32" at a viewing
distance of 10'! He wants to go Hi def, and tells me that if his wife
saw an "official" publication that proclaims a 70" set is optimal for
a 10' viewing distance, that's all it would take to overcome his
substantial Wife Acceptance Factor.

I think we can see some significant Sony price reductions in the future.

Just in case you missed the latest JVC press release on September 9, 2005, here are their latest prices for 1080P sets:

Model ApproximateRetail Price Available
HD-56FH96 $4,000 October 2005
HD-61FH96 $4,500 October 2005
HD-70FH96 $6,000 October 2005




I agree, I’ll look at these new JVC 1080s. I’m going to try and muster some patience and check out Sony’s competition. I would wager, as we get closer to the Christmas season and then the Super Bowl hype approaches, the prices on displays will continue to be competitive- discounted.

We should also have a better idea on whether there will be an ear- less SXRD in the immediate future. I’ve been interested in this Lcos / SXRD technology for a long time—I would not go with the A10 or A20.

Fyi, Just got back from my local B&M store where my 60 inch was prepurchase. They show a new date of Oct 6th when sets are due.

I agree, I’ll look at these new JVC 1080s. I’m going to try and muster some patience and check out Sony’s competition. I would wager, as we get closer to the Christmas season and then the Super Bowl hype approaches, the prices on displays will continue to be competitive- discounted.

We should also have a better idea on whether there will be an ear- less SXRD in the immediate future. I’ve been interested in this Lcos / SXRD technology for a long time—I would not go with the A10 or A20.

I doubt the ears will gone for at least a year, and maybe 2 or more. When they are gone though I may sell my A-10 off, and buy the SXRD.

The next set will lose the ears. I'm not a psychic but that is what people want.

Just a heads up, most best buys will carry the SXRD's not just the magnolia segment stores. The instock date for both models were confirmed for 10-15-05 with large quantities on order for the mid atlantic stores.

I doubt the ears will gone for at least a year, and maybe 2 or more. When they are gone though I may sell my A-10 off, and buy the SXRD.

I might do the same..especially considering SXRD will have matured, and also be cheaper. :D

I doubt the ears will gone for at least a year, and maybe 2 or more. When they are gone though I may sell my A-10 off, and buy the SXRD.

Best of luck with your A-10, seriously, at least you made a decision and are still sane. As I’ve stated before, I am not a “day trader” when it comes to these purchases. This research is fun for some but for me, I just want to be done with it, kick back and enjoy!

I was at my local Meyer-Emco dealer. the had both the Sony 70" Qualia and the Mits 61" 1080p. They were using Discovery HD from Direct TV as the feed. Unfortunately the quality of the Direct TV feed does not allow you to see anywhere near the maximum potential of these TVs. Best Buy had the same problem with their Direct TV HD feed in the Magnolia high end section displaying the 67" Samsung 1080p DLP.

My conclusion is if you have HD Direct TV you are not getting your moneys worth buying a 1080p set! :(

Too bad there isn't an "industrial" model without those damn speaker ears. That is the only thing making me consider a 50" panny plasma over a 60" SXRD. :(

As I was in the store just before Yardman, I can clarify. The first salesman, as I mentioned, was helpful by setting all the tvs to pro mode and toning down the sharpness. However, a**hole salesman #2 came in later and rudely took over, restoring all tvs to vivid despite objections from 2 other salesmen and 2 customers - he even thought the obvious red push on the sxrd looked better. That was the point where I left (fuming, with quiet apologies from my salesman).


Find out from salesman #1 what time salesman #2 goes to lunch. Then you've got roughly an hour to evaluate these sets. :)

Originally Posted by HiDef Bob
I just talked to a saleman at one of the Sony Stores in Vancouver. He claimed that the new SXRD's have a newer WEGA engine than in the Qualia.


I guess I need to clarify.

All the other Sony sets I looked at had the feature: WEGA Engine™ system." Only the SXRD's say: "WEGA Engine™ system: WEGA Engine HD video."

So, I'm just wondering if the phrase "WEGA Engine HD Video" is what sets the SXRD video hardware/software apart and may be what the saleman quoted by HiDef Bob could be referring to. If it is, I wonder what's better about it. I could find no references whatsoever to "WEGA Engine HD Video" when I ran a search of the manual.

Perhaps it's just another error in the features list, like Wega Gate apparently is.

WEGA Engine has nothing to do with Wega Gate, the latter being a user interface accessed by the remote.

Don't mean to make a big deal out of this. Just curiosity while watching the clock s-l-o-w-l-y tic. Hope this doesn't add useless confusion.

Egad, re-reading the above I see I ended not one, but two sentences with a preposition. I should never post anything one day after an Eagles win. Hic.

I wouldn't count on the salesman's words. Just like the A20 and A10s have this big 3LCD sticker and a salesman was trying to tell me that was new on these models.

So where are all you guys PreOrdering these from? The big three that I know of are SonyStyle, Crutchfield and Sears. The 60" is looking good to me, and it's time to start haggling with who I need to be if there are more B&M stores around to be carrying them.

Sears with its 10% pricematch should cut out the tax and at least equal that of the online places. Plus it's local

Abt Electronics also lists MSRP but you can negotiate with them. Especially if you have a competitor quote in the local market (Chicago area).

roller, Yes, I watched Threshold last night from my D*HDTivo. I thought the PQ (and the DD 5.1 sound) were both very good. However, I received it via OTA from KCNC-DT and NOT from DirectTV (LA feed). I suppose I could have Tivoed it from the D* LA feed for comparison.

How does the DirecTV feed of HD networks compare with over the air ATSC broadcasts?

Best of luck with your A-10, seriously, at least you made a decision and are still sane. As I’ve stated before, I am not a “day trader” when it comes to these purchases. This research is fun for some but for me, I just want to be done with it, kick back and enjoy!

I made a decision...but not so sure I am sane...lol. I am more pleased with the A-10 than I thought I would be though. So I really think I can use it 2 to 4 years, sell it to a friend...and then buy whatever the next great thing is by then....which may well be the earless SXRD with other improvements.

I made a decision...but not so sure I am sane...lol. I am more pleased with the A-10 than I thought I would be though. So I really think I can use it 2 to 4 years, sell it to a friend...and then buy whatever the next great thing is by then....which may well be the earless SXRD with other improvements.I seen the 60" SXRD today and all I have to say to everyone SEE IT BEFORE YOU BUY IT... At 9-10 feet away the SXRD looked good a little soft, excellent colors, great blacks but so did the 50" A10 which had more punch to it...and a hell of a lot cheaper. :eek:

I seen the 60" SXRD today and all I have to say to everyone SEE IT BEFORE YOU BUY IT... At 9-10 feet away the SXRD looked good a little soft, excellent colors, great blacks but so did the 50" A10 which had more punch to it...and a hell of a lot cheaper. :eek:

Thanks Joe.

What source material was being played? What source components were
being used? How were they connectect? HDMI?

roller, Yes, I watched Threshold last night from my D*HDTivo. I thought the PQ (and the DD 5.1 sound) were both very good. However, I received it via OTA from KCNC-DT and NOT from DirectTV (LA feed). I suppose I could have Tivoed it from the D* LA feed for comparison.


I only get OTA, it would be interesting if you could report an OTA vs
D* on Threshold.


P.S. to roller11, as of today UE in Boulder are still showing an ETA of 9/23 for the SXRDs. Have you pre-ordered yet?

No, I'm waiting to see one at Soundtrack and make an eval with my prerecorded
.tp files. They have a good many sets for a comparison, like the 1080P
Mits, sammy, Qualia 006, etc. Only thing I might do before they get sets in stock
is go over there on Sunday, they supposedly have CBS NFL football displayed
in the back room.

I can only get the W. Coast feeds of CBS and Fox from DirecTV (ABC and NBC refuse the waivers here) but I think the local OTA feed is a bit better. Get to see more live car chases on the L.A. feeds (esp. Fox) though. ;)

ABC refused waivers?!? That means you can't get ABC at all. Why did
ABC refuse?

Also, where do you live that you can get KCNC OTA? I thought you were in Boulder.

JWV: I read in previous posts of yours that you don't like Sony because you had problems with them in the past. I wonder if this has made you jaded. Every professional review on the Qualia has been glowing. They use quotes like: Best picture ever, it's like looking out a window, almost perfect, etc. Yet you're saying you thought the A10 was close to its equal. I saw the A10 and had an A20 and while I think they are excellent sets they don't have great blacks or contrast and severe SDE on most feeds. I'm a little skeptical of your review. AlanB and a few members here stated that the SXRD sets were superior to the A10/A20 and while maybe not worth the premium they definitely had a better PQ.

Thanks Joe.

What source material was being played? What source components were
being used? How were they connectect? HDMI?Component with Direct TV in HD.

JWV: I read in previous posts of yours that you don't like Sony because you had problems with them in the past. I wonder if this has made you jaded. Every professional review on the Qualia has been glowing. They use quotes like: Best picture ever, it's like looking out a window, almost perfect, etc. Yet you're saying you thought the A10 was close to its equal. I saw the A10 and had an A20 and while I think they are excellent sets they don't have great blacks or contrast and severe SDE on most feeds. I'm a little skeptical of your review. AlanB and a few members here stated that the SXRD sets were superior to the A10/A20 and while maybe not worth the premium they definitely had a better PQ.I have never owned a Sony TV...I just went there to see their SXRD 60"...If the 60" looked good I was in the market for a 50" for my bedroom and after seeing it thought at 14 feet there wasn't enough difference to pay the extra over a A10 50"...remember 14 feet away...yes the SXRD has excellent blacks, colors but this TV has a soft picture...I also have a Samsung 67" in my great room...and at 14 feet feel I could of got by with a 720P set...I have nothing to hide...and you should not feel skeptical of my review its cut and dry...I have nothing to gain here...its just what I seen with my own eyes.

[QUOTE=HomeGuy]JWV: I read in previous posts of yours that you don't like Sony because you had problems with them in the past. QUOTE]

It was Mitsubishi that I had a problem with...I really had a rough time with their service dept. :mad:

AkaStp, the 50" is lagging behind the 60", but only by a little bit. You should see them not long after.

Joe, where did you see an SXRD?

I've seen the Qualia now set up in 4 different stores, and I've seen a couple A10s, and I don't think they're very close at all. The Qualia is still the best RPTV I've seen. Of course, a 50" TV is naturally going to look sharper than a 70", especially for SD and DVD content. But even at 70", the Qualia is anything but soft. The extra detail on 1080i displays is definitely apparent.

At 9-10 feet away the SXRD looked good a little soft...
Thanks jwv651 for your input. Does anyone else who has seen the 60" SXRD feel the PQ is soft? I'm hoping it was just the source.

One reason I think the RP LCD's are out selling DLP is because the image is significantly sharper and crisper. This is easy for most people to see. It is much harder to see DLP's contrast advantage in a brightly lit store like BB or CC. Wobulation makes the DLP images soft--they call it "film-like," but it's just a marketing ploy for a soft image.

JWV,

are you sure you saw the SXRD, which hasn't shipped yet, and not the KDF-60XS955 which looks the same but is an 720p lcd set

PC input implies VGA, which is analog and the res/display mode is whatever
is set on the PC's graphics card. What do you mean by
"XGA"/HDMI? No computer I'm aware of has HDMI output.
Of course most PC's have DVI out, but that would connect to the corresponding
input of the TV and not be specifically a PC input.


Sorry, I should clarify. The Mitsu does not have a dedicated PC input, but instead
you configure one of the HDMI for PC and only up to XGA. BTW, new ATI cards
will have HDMI.


I also plan to take my PC to the B&M when they get their SXRD sets. I have
saved off onto my hard drive several short .tp HDTV files that are
of exceptionally high quality so as to provide an evaluation
vehicle. For example, yesterdays Denver/SanDiego game was perhaps
the best HD I've ever seen on a football game, no edge
artifacts that are usually present on the players right side on the distance shots.
It was as clean and sharp as I've ever seen. Also, the Florida/Tenn. game on
Sat.nite was just about as good.
Be sure to get some .tp files where the source is an actual HD camera, as
opposed to the typical primetime show is shot in optical media, then
transfered to video post production. The only such primetime is "office" on NBC.
It's image quality is the absolute best. Or, record either Leno or Letterman,
they are also unprocessed HD video.

Since you'll be evaluating DLP sets, be sure to have scenes of actors faces.
The prob. with DLP tech is that they do dimly lit scenes poorly. In a static
close up scene, like a dialog scene, the lighting will usually make one side
of the face bright, the other side will be in variable shadow.
As the face comes out of the shadow on DLP, you will see greenish/gray
colorations that gradually give way to redish hues, then finally the correct
rendition, normal skin tones. Or, the overall color will be
more gray than dark skin tones, it's like there are not enough bits
to properly resolve darker scenes, i.e. poor gamma correction.
This prob with DLP's is known as "clay faces". Check for this defect
on both DLP's and SXRD.

It is my understanding that no B&M will have these sets until at least Sep. 26,
at the very earliest. What is the name and location of the store
where you saw this SXRD?

It was at A&B in Austin just like Ten99 said. It is not the best environment
for testing since it is on the main showroom floor. But they are happy to let you
test thoroughly. I definitely plan to look for clay faces since I have seen that
before on other sets.

Out of the 2 sets, wouldn't the 50" set have the better quality due to size? Trying to decide between the 50 and 60" sets since I'll be sitting about 8 feet away. Thanks.

Dave

The next set will lose the ears. I'm not a psychic but that is what people want.

WOW!!!!! This whole thing about the speakers on the sxrd is ridiculous, WHO CARES!!!! Are you going to watch the speakers at night, or are you going to be watching that great pq on that great 60 inch screen? When you are off at work is there gonna be some style god rating the way your tv looks on the stand NO! For me all you guys/gals complaining about the way the speakers look are insane, just my opinion, these sets come and go, i returned my kdfxbr950 last year, not for how it looked, but for how it performed..... please enough guys with the way it looks, get over it! at night you can't see a thing but that screen......

P.S. must be some picky people when it comes to dating, look she has big ears i can't date her LOL :rolleyes:

JWV,

Are you sure you saw the SXRD, which hasn't shipped yet, and not the KDF-60XS955 which looks the same but is an 720p lcd set?Based on his location, I'm guessing that he did indeed see the 60" SXRD at The Little Guys in Glenwood, Illinois.

Does anyone have any inside details on the actual .61" sxrd panels. I was just wondering since the 70" sxrd panels are .78" that would give a magnification of 90x. Both the 60" and 50" sxrd panels list a .61" sxrd panel the 60" would have a magnification of 98x and the 50" 81x. If they reduced the panel size by proportionally reducing both pixel size and interpixel spacing the picture should be awesome. If they only reduced the pixel size and not the spacing the 60" may exibit more SDE than the 50" and 70".

Can anyone post a link to a website that discusses the "proper" size for
a HDTV set vs viewing distance? All I've seen is Voom's promo
that claims a 3:1 ratio of viewing distance to vertical height is
optimal. My cousin, who is bucks up and can afford any TV in existance,
tells me his wife won't allow a large screen TV in the living
room because she has a ridiculous notion that somehow smaller is better.
He is therefore stuck with a standard CRT that is only 32" at a viewing
distance of 10'! He wants to go Hi def, and tells me that if his wife
saw an "official" publication that proclaims a 70" set is optimal for
a 10' viewing distance, that's all it would take to overcome his
substantial Wife Acceptance Factor.

The following link ought to do it:
http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

If you ask me the recommended distances from this calculator are way too close, but if your cousin thinks such information will be convincing, so be it. BTW, I'd recommend starting by trying to sell bigger than he wants, and then "settle" for a slightly smaller size! ;)

Based on his location, I'm guessing that he did indeed see the 60" SXRD at The Little Guys in Glenwood, Illinois.Here is some pictures.

tv3 006.jpg Store front

tv3 005.jpg SXRD 60"

tv3 003.jpg A10 50"

One reason I think the RP LCD's are out selling DLP is because the image is significantly sharper and crisper. This is easy for most people to see.

Not.

WOW!!!!! This whole thing about the speakers on the sxrd is ridiculous, WHO CARES!!!! Are you going to watch the speakers at night, or are you going to be watching that great pq on that great 60 inch screen? When you are off at work is there gonna be some style god rating the way your tv looks on the stand NO! For me all you guys/gals complaining about the way the speakers look are insane, just my opinion, these sets come and go, i returned my kdfxbr950 last year, not for how it looked, but for how it performed..... please enough guys with the way it looks, get over it! at night you can't see a thing but that screen......

P.S. must be some picky people when it comes to dating, look she has big ears i can't date her LOL :rolleyes:

HA HA HA @ the style gods comment.

WOW!!!!! This whole thing about the speakers on the sxrd is ridiculous, WHO CARES!!!! Are you going to watch the speakers at night, or are you going to be watching that great pq on that great 60 inch screen? When you are off at work is there gonna be some style god rating the way your tv looks on the stand NO! For me all you guys/gals complaining about the way the speakers look are insane, just my opinion, these sets come and go, i returned my kdfxbr950 last year, not for how it looked, but for how it performed..... please enough guys with the way it looks, get over it! at night you can't see a thing but that screen......

P.S. must be some picky people when it comes to dating, look she has big ears i can't date her LOL :rolleyes:

HA HA HA @ the style gods comment.

I really don't care if the speakers look like Dumbo ears, dogs ears or cats ears! I just don't want them at all. What I would really like is a 50" SXRD MONITOR ... i.e. no audio electronics. I would even pay extra! In other words if Sony made a professional version of the 50" SXRD I would buy it.

Here is some pictures.

tv3 006.jpg Store front

tv3 005.jpg SXRD 60"

tv3 003.jpg A10 50"


Nice shots, Joe. Both the A10 & 60" SXRD look pretty good in your pics.

I saw the 60 here in albuquerque at a small local dealer.He said that it came in friday.I saw it with hdnet and 2 different dvds.The player was a piece of crap.In fact it was a sony dvr incapable of upsampling.I saw it through component only.It was breathtaking.Detail was delivered as smoothly as on either of the other qualias.Black level was superb.It didn't look as though there were any internal cabinet reflections.This has always been a problem with all rps.I will be buying soon.The best rear projector I have ever seen at the price.

I am in the love-the-ears camp. Looks like a contemporary sculpture.

I love the look of the new sets. The problem with the side speakers is that it makes it hard to fit in a cabinet for a normal 60" set.

Out of the 2 sets, wouldn't the 50" set have the better quality due to size? Trying to decide between the 50 and 60" sets since I'll be sitting about 8 feet away. Thanks.

Dave

Hey Dave, this has been an ongoing question here, and while some are on both sides of the fence, i would say more than 50% feel that the way to go is with the BIGGEST set, very few people are sorry down the road they got a big set, while many who get a smaller set later on wish they had gotten the bigger one.

I will be 8' (or a few inches closer) away, and i have decided on the 60". As i have said before, looking at them in the store from those distances, i feel that i am WATCHING the 50" set while i feel like i am IMMERSED in the 60" set. Remember too that when watching 2:35 ratio movies you will have black lines at top and bottom, and that makes the height of your tv picture smaller. Go for the gusto and get the 60".

WOW!!!!! This whole thing about the speakers on the sxrd is ridiculous, WHO CARES!!!! Are you going to watch the speakers at night, or are you going to be watching that great pq on that great 60 inch screen? When you are off at work is there gonna be some style god rating the way your tv looks on the stand NO! For me all you guys/gals complaining about the way the speakers look are insane, just my opinion, these sets come and go, i returned my kdfxbr950 last year, not for how it looked, but for how it performed..... please enough guys with the way it looks, get over it! at night you can't see a thing but that screen......

P.S. must be some picky people when it comes to dating, look she has big ears i can't date her LOL :rolleyes:

I think the issue with the side speakers for some is not the style of the speakers being on the side, it's more of a space issue. A 60" widescreen TV is already wide enough without adding additional width with speakers. If you add speakers on the side, it makes a 60" widescreen TV about the same width of a 70"+ set.

Hi All,

Such a long thread!

Anyways, just saw this thread and thought I would post something. I ordered a 60" SXRD from SonyStyle back on August 16th. Just got off the phone with them to find out when to expect it and they said they have 50 coming in on September 26th (to their warehouse in PA). I was second in line to get one and starting next monday they will be shipped out.

I asked if it is possible that they may arrive sooner and all that was said was their inventory changes daily. I'm getting kind of excited, because I've always wanted a nice home theater system...I'm getting/got the following:

Sony SXRD 60" TV
5.1 Polk Audio Speakers
Sony 7100 ES Receiver
Panasonic S97 DVD
Xbox 360 (Expected: Nov 22nd)
P4 3.8 GHz, 2 Gig RAM, 220 Gig HD, WinXP Media Center
Monster Surge Protector
Using HDMI when I can (Monster 1000 Cables)
and Acoustic Research Master Series cables otherwise

So I purchased this thing at MSRP (4999 + tax). Hope the price can come down soon on SonyStyle so I can recoup some of it. However the No nothing for 18 months is awesome for financing. Will worry about paying it off next year!

Questions:
1. Does anyone know how much ventilation is required for this TV?

Note: I have an in-wall space that is fairly large, with a custom built entertainment center going right into it. (Nothing more than it being incased with a platform and some cubby holes at the bottom and one up top for the center channel) There will be decent room all the way around the TV.

2. Does anyone know if there are concerns for gaming on this TV?

3. Does anyone know if hooking up HDMI directly to the TV is anymore advantageous than passing it through the receiver?

4. Not that I care too much, but are those side speakers detachable?

5. Should I be concerned about the TV tilting forward?

Note: I'm having the belt attachment hooked in from the base cabinet to the TV and a special molding to fit over the base of the TV to keep it from moving.

Thanks in advance for any response.
Arv