I think the dynamic iris will make the difference. Having it on the SXRD sets and not the LCD sets may give the impression that the SXRD sets have better contrast and dynamic range. Wonder how they would compare if they put the dynamic iris on the LCD sets as well.

The dynamic iris is on the LCD A10s, but it seems from the reviews of the Qualia 006 that SXRD has inherently better blacks/contrast even without Cinema Black Pro.

EDIT: Oops, looking at the Qualia specs it seems it DOES have CBP. Never realized that. :o

Heh! I think I just got caught fibbing ... Now that I think about it more, I might be remembering downloading the photo of a different set ... too many sets to keep track of! ... I'll double-check and let you know if I find anything on it.

No worries, it's easy to get confused in all the excitement over LCD A10s, SXRD A10s, A20s, etc. etc.! :)

Even with the dynamic iris, the LCD-based sets won't touch the SXRDs on ANSI contrast, pixel fill, resolution, etc.

Ditto.

LCD is a great product at a great price, but it will never compare with SXRD for pic quality.

My husband and I are bouncing back and forth on whether to get the JVC 61"1080P or the Sony SXRD 60" 1080P. One of the observations I made was in the weight of these sets. When I look at the current weight of the JVC 61"886, it weighs in at 103 lb. If I look at the Sony KDF60***955 (can't remember the whole model #), that model weighs in at almost 200 lb.

Now here is the dilema, a few years ago we bought a new TV stand and the weight limit is 120 lb. This is great for the JVC but it won't work for the SXRD (the 70" SXRD is 275 lb.) So if we decide that we prefer the Sony to the JVC, we're going to have to buy another stand that can accommodate the weight.

So the question is, does anyone know why there is such a big weight descrepancy between the Sony models and the others??? :confused: Just for giggles, I looked at the Samsung 60", Toshiba, etc and they all weigh around 100 lb.

Is it really dynamic in the true sense of the word? I believe that on the Qualis 006, the iris engages upon selection of cinema black, but it is a one position iris setting; it doesn't dynamically adjust throughout the viewing.

Ditto.

LCD is a great product at a great price, but it will never compare with SXRD for pic quality.


I've seen SXRD in a 70" Qualia 006 and I honestly wish there was more of a difference in picture quality between it and my tweaked out 60" Sony GWIII. As a buyer, I moved from being willing to buy one to replace a 20 month old TV(that still looks great) to buying one when my current TV dies.

BenDover,
It was my understanding that you are correct.

I could be totally wrong, but I think the Sony's that weigh so much are the ones with the big heavy glass screen on the front (XBR's and Qualia's).

Personally, I think the Qualia blows away any RPTV on the market today... Just went to the local SonyStyle a couple of days ago...

Any new word on when the SXRD's will arrive? The guy at SonyStyle didn't really know but they get the sets after the other local stores do so that doesn't surprise me.

I briefly owned a 60XS955 and the weight was no where near 200 lbs. According to the sonystyle website its 113 lbs. I would be surprised if the 60" SXRD set weighs much more than that.

I have no idea why the Qualia weighs so much more. The 70" XBR weighs about 200 lbs.

Sorry for the confusion. It is the XBR brand that I meant to refer to. The current 70" Qualia weighs in at 275 lb. The 60" XBR weighs in at about 200 lb. If it is true that the screen is glass, this would explain why the big difference in weight. If the screen is glass and looking at the current 70" Qualia and 60" XBR, I would be concerned that these sets would tip very easily due to the weight being in the front and these sets are not all that deep.

We currently have a 36" WEGA and one thing my husband mentioned when he was lifting it onto the stand, was that it had a tendancy to tip forward as he and a freind lifted it.

I wonder if these screens are glass, what the benefit is in having glass versus another type of screen for these sets is?

To add to the weight question- I have the '60XBR950, and the faceplate is not glass, it is plastic. The set weighs 177 lb. To further the confusion, the "little brother" 60" set (KF60WE610) weighs 100 lb. It is hard to imagine the plexiglass screen weighs 77 lb, so there are other differences in there somewhere. After moving the set I can also attest to the fact that it is Very front-heavy. It locks into the Sony stand and has a rear anchor point for custom installs. The new ones must be similar.

Dave W.

If the screen is glass and looking at the current 70" Qualia and 60" XBR, I would be concerned that these sets would tip very easily due to the weight being in the front and these sets are not all that deep.I don't think you need to be concerned about that. I'm sure that Sony has tested them for stability. They don't want any lawsuits because the sets are prone to topple over onto small children. I recall that someone raised a similar concern here on the forum a couple of years ago about Toshiba's 57" LCOS set (now discontinued) because of its large glass screen and similar slim profile, which proved to be unfounded.

I don't think you need to be concerned about that. I'm sure that Sony has tested them for stability. They don't want any lawsuits because the sets are prone to topple over onto small children. I recall that someone raised a similar concern here on the forum a couple of years ago about Toshiba's 57" LCOS set (now discontinued) because of its large glass screen and similar slim profile, which proved to be unfounded.

There are UL rules for tilt which state the set has to be able to be tilted X degrees without tipping over. All manufacturers follow this.

I've seen SXRD in a 70" Qualia 006 and I honestly wish there was more of a difference in picture quality between it and my tweaked out 60" Sony GWIII.
So bold to utter such things!
My dealer had the 006 side my side with the other Sony LCDs. I had the same opinion as you do. I'm disappointed when simply being more expensive equates to being a status symbol.

So bold to utter such things!
My dealer had the 006 side my side with the other Sony LCDs. I had the same opinion as you do. I'm disappointed when simply being more expensive equates to being a status symbol.

You think they're going to make us sit in "time out"?? :rolleyes:

Apparently there is a tipping issue if the set has to be anchored down. ;) Does this lock you into buying Sony's stand?? I guess you better be certain where you're going to put this in a room and hope that is no room for dust bunnies to collect. :D

Every TV that I've ever owned or moved has been front-heavy. I would think that the anchor point in the rear isn't there to prevent it from tipping forward when it's just sitting there, but instead to prevent it from falling forwards if somebody grabbed onto it (I'm thinking about the XS series "wings"). I'm sure you could gently rock the set forward to maybe 8 or 10 degrees without it toppling, but the anchor point would squash that temptation.

Jason

The anchor also comes in handy if you live in earthquake country.

or wild partys

Every TV that I've ever owned or moved has been front-heavy. I would think that the anchor point in the rear isn't there to prevent it from tipping forward when it's just sitting there, but instead to prevent it from falling forwards if somebody grabbed onto it (I'm thinking about the XS series "wings"). I'm sure you could gently rock the set forward to maybe 8 or 10 degrees without it toppling, but the anchor point would squash that temptation.

Jason

I agree with Jason.

Besides it's not a jungle-gym... It's a TV! :D JimP has a good point though. :eek:

The anchor also comes in handy if you live in earthquake country.

or selling a grossly overpriced TV stand.

Any idea what the msrp on these sets will be? I've seen $4999 for the 60, but I've also seen $6999. :confused: Anyone have any concrete info or is this still all speculation? :D

Jason

Any idea what the msrp on these sets will be? I've seen $4999 for the 60, but I've also seen $6999. :confused: Anyone have any concrete info or is this still all speculation? :D

Jason

Go the very first post on this thread. I don't think anything has changed on expected pricing, though that may be different as we approach actual release date. Lew

Here's a link to an interesting PDF. It looks to be general Sony marketing presentation material for Feb 2005.

http://www.westinghousenuclear.com/pdf/E3e_Trainor.pdf

Go the very first post on this thread. I don't think anything has changed on expected pricing, though that may be different as we approach actual release date. Lew
Lew-

Thanks, but that's my point. I've seen it (here and a couple of other places) listed for $4999, but I've also seen it as high as $7000+. Just wondering if it falls somewhere in the middle, or if the original poster was correct with the pricing info...and if so, where those tentative prices came from. I'm trying to weigh purchasing now or waiting until Oct/Nov, but if it is indeed $7000, I don't think I'll bother waiting.

Jason

Someone educate me...

If HD DVD's are not really out... and it may be years before we know which format of HD DVD will prevail the battle, then most of us will not have a 1080p source...

That being said, what is the point of shelling out the cash for one of these models?

Also, I read on one post that these 1080p models don't have 1080p inputs...
Is that true? That would further make me want to wait a couple of years before buying a 1080p TV. Not to mention, wont all of our 480i DVD's look worse the higher the resolution of our TV's? And I have seen upconverting DVD players... Not impressed.

Anyway... would like some input. I am planning to get the E50A10 if it looks better than the E55A20... (otherwise I will go for the 55 incher).

I'm looking for a reason to bail on waiting for the SXRD which will be more expensive and likely not be ideal for when 1080p becomes mainstream.

FWIW, I just got back from Tweeter (shopping for a stand) and I noticed one that I liked. On the stand was a 70" Sony SXRD with a price tag of $12,999.

I have no other info on the set as I haven't been following the Sony SXRD progression, release dates, etc. I just saw what was on the tag. If anyone lives in CT, feel free to stop by the Tweeter on the Berlin Turnpike to take a look.

EDIT: I guess this must be the Qualia set that is mentioned in other threads. Pay no attention to the man behind the keyboard...

You saw the Sony Qualia 006. Yeah, it's a great set.

Someone educate me...

If HD DVD's are not really out... and it may be years before we know which format of HD DVD will prevail the battle, then most of us will not have a 1080p source...

That being said, what is the point of shelling out the cash for one of these models?


A 1080p set will be able to show the full spatial resolution of 1080i, which is the majority of HDTV broadcasts. 720p sets have to scale the image to fit their native resolution. Whether Blu-Ray or HD-DVD wins, both will be at least 1080i, possibly 1080p.

Someone educate me...

If HD DVD's are not really out... and it may be years before we know which format of HD DVD will prevail the battle, then most of us will not have a 1080p source...

That being said, what is the point of shelling out the cash for one of these models?

Also, I read on one post that these 1080p models don't have 1080p inputs...
Is that true? That would further make me want to wait a couple of years before buying a 1080p TV. Not to mention, wont all of our 480i DVD's look worse the higher the resolution of our TV's? And I have seen upconverting DVD players... Not impressed.
HD DVDs might not be the only source for 1080p (Link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5827137&&#post5827137)):The future?

Mitsu is about 6 months into development of next year's line and they clearly were not going to be talking about what's on deck. I was told that one major broadcaster is poised to go 1080P soon, and it's not ESPN. My guess would be Fox or ABC, but who knows.

HD DVDs might not be the only source for 1080p (Link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5827137&&#post5827137)):

I have trouble believing that anyone is going to be broadcasting in 1080p anytime soon. The bandwidth isn't there. The issue for content providers is getting the bandwidth to provide more 1080i and 720p channels as the expansion of HD content continues. Why would they waste bandwidth broadcasting in 1080p when there aren't any sets, or tuners, that can make use of the signal? Lew

I have trouble believing that anyone is going to be broadcasting in 1080p anytime soon. The bandwidth isn't there. The issue for content providers is getting the bandwidth to provide more 1080i and 720p channels as the expansion of HD content continues. Why would they waste bandwidth broadcasting in 1080p when there aren't any sets, or tuners, that can make use of the signal? Lew

Exactly.

Exactly.

MPEG-4 will substantially increase bandwidth though I am not sure
much broadcast will adopt 1080p immediately...

No one is going to broadcast 1080p anytime soon. That doesn't mean you don't want a 1080p set, however.

No one is going to broadcast 1080p anytime soon. That doesn't mean you don't want a 1080p set, however.

Agreed, especially to improve 1080i. Lew

FWIW, I just got back from Tweeter (shopping for a stand) and I noticed one that I liked. On the stand was a 70" Sony SXRD with a price tag of $12,999.

I have no other info on the set as I haven't been following the Sony SXRD progression, release dates, etc. I just saw what was on the tag. If anyone lives in CT, feel free to stop by the Tweeter on the Berlin Turnpike to take a look.

EDIT: I guess this must be the Qualia set that is mentioned in other threads. Pay no attention to the man behind the keyboard...

I was in that Tweeter store. As already mentioned it is the Qualia 006. They were not very helpful in that they would not give me the password to unlock the other D* channels to see SD. I saw the set in the N.Y. store with the Blu-ray and it was one amazing picture! Regular SD looked ok and D* HD was great.

MPEG-4 will substantially increase bandwidth though I am not sure
much broadcast will adopt 1080p immediately...


We all know that MPEG-4 will increase bandwidth, but you can be sure that this will be utilized in ways OTHER than broadcasting in 1080p!

We all know that MPEG-4 will increase bandwidth, but you can be sure that this will be utilized in ways OTHER than broadcasting in 1080p!Can there ever be enough Shop at Home channels?

You don't think the cable companies might use the extra bandwidth capacity to pump more crappy channels into our homes instead of sending high quality, higher definition, network broadcasts do you? ;)

Can there ever be enough Shop at Home channels?

You don't think the cable companies might use the extra bandwidth capacity to pump more crappy channels into our homes instead of sending high quality, higher definition, network broadcasts do you? ;)

Oh no, not at all!

They are much more interested in providing us with the highest possible picture quality, and delivering as many channels in 1080p as humanly possible! They are even willing to invest billions of dollars in order to do it!

;)

So bold to utter such things!
My dealer had the 006 side my side with the other Sony LCDs. I had the same opinion as you do. I'm disappointed when simply being more expensive equates to being a status symbol.


Interesting..

2 million pixels with 90% fill factor VS 1 million pixels with 50% fill factor, and you couldnt see a difference?

Crappy feed maybe? Or is resolution something like rainbows where some of us can see the difference and some can't...

Of course pic quality is subjective, and we are all entitled to our opinions.

Interesting..

2 million pixels with 90% fill factor VS 1 million pixels with 50% fill factor, and you couldnt see a difference?

Crappy feed maybe? Or is resolution something like rainbows where some of us can see the difference and some can't...

Of course pic quality is subjective, and we are all entitled to our opinions.


I suspect the lack of substantial difference that I observed may be attributable in part to size of the displays. A 70" SXRD vs. a 60" rear projection LCD. Factor in what the human eye can resolve at the same distance. A fairer test would have been between two 70" sets.

I've seen the Qualia 6 and all the rest of the RPTV's talked about in these forums... the Qualia is far superior, in my opinion, than the others... even at is rediculous size of 70 inches.

But who wants to blow 13k on a TV?

I'm hoping the A10's will be better than the current models...

Interesting..

2 million pixels with 90% fill factor VS 1 million pixels with 50% fill factor, and you couldnt see a difference?

Crappy feed maybe? Or is resolution something like rainbows where some of us can see the difference and some can't...

Of course pic quality is subjective, and we are all entitled to our opinions.

The 006 resolution is very hampered when fed through component inputs. Also it may have been being fed 720p. When one goes to see a 1080p set, one had better confirm it is being fed at least a 1080i signal. Not that I'm an 006 defender, I've yet to see a set as good as a CRT-RPTV with 9" guns and that includes the 006- my entitled opinion. :)

.... Not that I'm an 006 defender, I've yet to see a set as good as a CRT-RPTV with 9" guns and that includes the 006- my entitled opinion. :)

and you post the same opinion on every possible thread too :D

As for bandwidth of 1080p, people should remember that all currently available 1080p source is 24 frames per second, which requires LESS bandwidth then 1080i 60Hz or 60 fields per second.
That is why Bly Ray will be 1080p 24 fps.

As the owner of a CRT RPTV which can resolve 1600x1080i, I can say that even currently available 1080i material which is only about 1440x1080 resolution is significantly superior to 720p.
I have never considered a 720p or 768p displays a viable replacement for a top quality 1080i display, however I hope the soon to be released second generation SXRD displays will be.
Unfortunately we don’t get the Qualia 006 over here, or I would probably have one already.

I've yet to see a set as good as a CRT-RPTV with 9" guns and that includes the 006- my entitled opinion. :)

LOL you cant be serious...

Is the difference in quality between a 720p and a 1080i set very debatable? I am considering the SONY 50" A10, which I believe is 720p. I was under the impression that 720p is just as good, if not better. Or, does this depend on the content coming in, whether 1080i or 720p?

LOL you cant be serious...

Why can't he be serious?

A top notch CRT with 9 inch guns is hard to beat.

Is the difference in quality between a 720p and a 1080i set very debatable? I am considering the SONY 50" A10, which I believe is 720p. I was under the impression that 720p is just as good, if not better. Or, does this depend on the content coming in, whether 1080i or 720p?

It depends on who you talk to, what day it is, what time of day, the sun's position in the sky, tide tables, etc.

Why can't he be serious?

A top notch CRT with 9 inch guns is hard to beat.

Only a biased Mits 9inGun owner would think there tv still hangs with a Qualia...

Come on, do you really think with HD DVD comming along a rp-crt will look anywere near as good as a Qualia or these new 60s?

It wont be close, lets not even mention the new ps3 and xbox 360 if youre a gamer... And no burn in?

I love rp-crts too but they will be blurry and dim in comparison.

With regard to this list of features posted earlier in the thread by Flave, apparently quoting Lew from another thread:

KDSR50A10 $3,999.99 Nov. 05, KDSR60A10 $4,999.99 Oct 05. HDTV monitor (3 SXRD/1920x1080), qualia006 pure red, high contrast ratio, film like reproduction, WEGA Engine HD (DRC MultiFunction V2), S-Master, HDMI, Audio Optical Out (Tos Link), PC Input (D-Sub 15 pin), MS Viewer, New Edge Design, WEGA GATE User Interface

What do you think "New Edge Design" is?

Can't wait to see a photo of these sets. Are there any trade shows or the like coming up where they may be on display like the LCD A10s were earlier in the year?

<A top notch CRT with 9 inch guns is hard to beat.>

Need to qualify this statement: A top notch CRT with 9 inch guns is hard to beat untill the HD/BR-DVD become available. The point is, with 9" CRT/006 we are limited by the source, and untill that is improved, the 9" CRT with its inky blacks actually delivers more satisfying PQ when viewed side-by-side as I have - at 4-5x lower cost.

<A top notch CRT with 9 inch guns is hard to beat.>

Need to qualify this statement: A top notch CRT with 9 inch guns is hard to beat untill the HD/BR-DVD become available. The point is, with 9" CRT/006 we are limited by the source, and untill that is improved, the 9" CRT with its inky blacks actually delivers more satisfying PQ when viewed side-by-side as I have - at 4-5x lower cost.

IMO, if you are going to compare picture quality, do just that and uncouple it from cost. If you want to argue that the CRT gives you more bang for the buck, that is a different story.

The RPCRT's I've seen with the venerable 9" guns and which were properly calibrated don't hold a candle to the 1080p sets, Qualia or not. Blacks are not the be all end all of the viewing experience.

Only a biased Mits 9inGun owner would think there tv still hangs with a Qualia...

Come on, do you really think with HD DVD comming along a rp-crt will look anywere near as good as a Qualia or these new 60s?

It wont be close, lets not even mention the new ps3 and xbox 360 if youre a gamer... And no burn in?

I love rp-crts too but they will be blurry and dim in comparison.


Since a finely tuned 1080i CRT RPTV has significantly higher resolution then a 720p display, I would say it is a given that the improvement provided by the new 1080p digital displays over a top class 1080i display will be minimal with video material.
As for the extra brightness of the digital sets, well for some it is an advantage, but for me it will be a curse. I expect I will need to install a neutral density filter in the SXRD light engine to get the light output DOWN to an acceptable level for my viewing environment. I don’t want to have to wear sunglasses to watch the darn thing.
My CRT RPTV can produce FARE more light output then I could ever use (Contrast set below 30%), and would prefer the better black levels that the neutral density filter will help produce.
You cant just turn down the Contrast control to reduce overall light output on a digital display as you can on a CRT based set without loosing Luminance resolution.

Burn in, what’s that, I have been running my HTPC through CRT RPTV’s for the last 5 years and have never experienced burn in.

Having said all that, I am still enthusiastic about the new 1080p SXRD displays, and if they are better then what I am currently using I will be purchasing one, even if I do need to modify it.
The cost of the SXRD’s and the possible voiding of warranty are not an issue for me.

I’ll be very disappointed if the new SXRD sets do not support 1080p 24fps, as I REALLY dislike 3:2 pull down judder.

LOL you cant be serious...

as a heart attack. The Qualia shows no more resolution than the Mits (especially if the Qualia is fed through its component input where its resolution is less due to extreme picture enhancement) as there is no full 1920x1080 being broadcast. The CRT is sharper, with better black levels, shadow detail, contrast ratio, color, no haloing (extreme picture enhancement) that I saw on the Qualia and doesn't have to scale- a definite problem with SD material and motion for the Qualia. Plus I don't have a reflections/glare screen on mine. If you offered me a straight trade for an 006 I wouldn't do it.

<The RPCRT's I've seen with the venerable 9" guns and which were properly calibrated don't hold a candle to the 1080p sets, Qualia or not.>

Bend-over, how many 1080p sets have you seen anyway - aside from the Qualia - to make such statement):

Blacks may not be all end all of the viewing experience, but neither is resolution. 1080p SXRD has the edge in resolution being progressive in nature while CRT delivers more in dynamic range, shadow detail and black levels - take your pick. Mitsu -813/815 delivers around 1600H resolution according to the testers.

Incidentally, mfgs if so wished could come out with 1080p CRT RPTVs. Such products actually exist in front projectors - like the Sony G90 - 2500x2000P device with 9" CRTs which is no longer made. By the comments of Sony's own engineers, the SXRD-based Qualia 004 would have to undergo a couple of generations to reach similar level of overall performance.

<The RPCRT's I've seen with the venerable 9" guns and which were properly calibrated don't hold a candle to the 1080p sets, Qualia or not.>

Bend-over, how many 1080p sets have you seen anyway - aside from the Qualia - to make such statement):

Let's see, I've seen the Qualia, as you have noted, the Samsungs and the JVCs.


You bring up the G90 and now you are in a totally different class (specifically, cost-wise) and the argument I keep hearing is that CRT is better because it is so much cheaper.

But anyhow, I don't normally get into pissing contests, and I will not start now. It just gets very tiring to hear "black-level this, black-level that"...

BTW, if you want some fodder to attack the Qualia, go to ultimateavmag.com, I'm sure there are some sound bites you can pick up there.

[EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot that I also saw an HP1080p set...]

Wow...maybe there should be another thread started to discuss and argue the merits of 9-inch guns vs. the 006...neither of which this thread is about. I'm all for a hearty and spirited discussion, but most of this is owner-based opinion and not terribly objective (or pertinent).

Jason

Jason, this is an SXRD thread; the CRT folks showed up to claim that SXRD still doesn't hold a candle to the CRTs, so I don't think the discussion is off topic. And, as I've noted, I wasn't trying to start a pissing contest but I see that is what it will become in short order.

Jason, this is an SXRD thread; the CRT folks showed up to claim that SXRD still doesn't hold a candle to the CRTs, so I don't think the discussion is off topic. And, as I've noted, I wasn't trying to start a pissing contest but I see that is what it will become in short order.

I think it's the other way around. CRT doesn't hold a candle to SXRD.

Let's stop with the cliches!!

I've seen the Qualia 006 at the Sony store, and the Qualia 004. I don't believe I have seen a better set on the market that those, and like others who can't fit a 70" TV in their living room, I'm anxious to get one of these new SXRD sets which are smaller in size and more economically palatable.

I think it's the other way around. CRT doesn't hold a candle to SXRD.

Let's stop with the cliches!!

I've seen the Qualia 006 at the Sony store, and the Qualia 004. I don't believe I have seen a better set on the market that those, and like others who can't fit a 70" TV in their living room, I'm anxious to get one of these new SXRD sets which are smaller in size and more economically palatable.

I am hoping they bring out a 70in in the SXRD XBR line for $6999 sometime
early next year... Sounds like the SXRDs will have better blacks and CR
than the Qualia 06 but probably slightly less expensive optics, etc.

Seen the Q 006 in 2 stores - amazing! I've also seen the 1080P Sammy, JVC and HP sets. All quite good but I liked the Q the best (and I intend on buying one). If the 50/60" is close in performance I will be inclined to pick up one of those to replace my aging Elite for the kids to watch.

On the other I will still keep my eyes open.

We can argue till the cows come home and I have to admit that virtually any discussions on all these tv's is way too fun! It makes future purchases more enjoyable.

Jason, this is an SXRD thread; the CRT folks showed up to claim that SXRD still doesn't hold a candle to the CRTs

Horse Poohey! CRT Folks love roaming and sniping at people that can afford a real HT, they do it on plasma, LCD, DLP, - they must get bored over in the nothing new for 20 years area that cannot afford a HT and figure they'll snipe what they cannot afford or experience. That view they see in a frickin B&M doesn't compare to what they look like in your home.

Besides someone who owns a 006 knows they don't need to debate the quality they are too busy experiencing it and the proposition that a CRT could touch a Q006 is ludicrous. I gave my 2.5 yr old 36" Sony CRT to a charity and my LCD FP blows that thing away. CRT Snipers rotate through every forum making claims they cannot support with any objective FACTS or any Poll where anyone would choose that CRT all things being equal with budget. No Contest - CRT Loses and that is why they are relegated to the corners and backwalls of the store. ;)

Horse Poohey! CRT Folks love roaming and sniping at people that can afford a real HT, they do it on plasma, LCD, DLP, - they must get bored over in the nothing new for 20 years area that cannot afford a HT and figure they'll snipe what they cannot afford or experience. snip..

More to the point, they are simply trolls looking to start flame wars as shown on this thread. Hell, Bill was waxing ecstatic about how much better CRTs are then the 006 before he even saw one :rolleyes: Any objective argument would show the CRT has a few advantages like a bit of contrast and some blacks, but then a Chevy S10 can haul a lot more manure and gets a little better mileage than a Corvette. Which one would you rather drive?

C.R.T. - Can't rationalize technologies

Qualia = Litmus test for Industry Plants!

<No Contest - CRT Loses>

And can you back it up with analytical reasoning?

<the CRT folks showed up to claim that SXRD still doesn't hold a candle ...>

I'm actually not one of these "CRT folks", simply have enough technical background to understand there are pros and cons to both technologies as far as PQ goes. I wish there was a way to combine the resolution and compactness of SXRD with black level and shadow detail of CRT, but it's not there. Thus the 006 is an impressive piece, but a say 73" Mitsu with 9" CRTs is a formidable competitor just in pure PQ terms.

If you want to maximize PQ for your money - at any budget, it pays to get some education - true in any field. Otherwise you'll end up listening to a lot of silly talk like "my LCD FP blows that thing away" and "No Contest - CRT Loses" from the folks who don't even know how the two technologies physically function.

<I wasn't trying to start a pissing contest >

Me neither

Maybe it's that we're all so anxious to get our hands on information about these new SXRD sets and that there's so little out there that we all seem to have loaded bladders and weenies in hand. Give me a break...if you like your TV, that's great...if you think somebody else spent too much money on their TV, then it's their problem...if you think your TV is better than theirs, then start your own god damn thread...:)

Jason

if you think your TV is better than theirs, then start your own god damn thread...:)Amen!

<No Contest - CRT Loses>

And can you back it up with analytical reasoning?

<the CRT folks showed up to claim that SXRD still doesn't hold a candle ...>

I'm actually not one of these "CRT folks", simply have enough technical background to understand there are pros and cons to both technologies as far as PQ goes. I wish there was a way to combine the resolution and compactness of SXRD with black level and shadow detail of CRT, but it's not there. Thus the 006 is an impressive piece, but a say 73" Mitsu with 9" CRTs is a formidable competitor just in pure PQ terms.

If you want to maximize PQ for your money - at any budget, it pays to get some education - true in any field. Otherwise you'll end up listening to a lot of silly talk like "my LCD FP blows that thing away" and "No Contest - CRT Loses" from the folks who don't even know how the two technologies physically function.

<I wasn't trying to start a pissing contest >

Me neither

You have convinced me. I ran right down to my local A/V shop and asked where they are hiding there selection of 9" CRT Rps and the guy just laughed at me???
What's up with that?

Here are a couple of bits of info to get the thread back on track. First, I believe the correct model numbers are KDS-R50XBR1 (50") and KDS-R60XBR1 (60"). The sets have 2 HDMI inputs, a PC input, and 3 i.LINK ports which should support HD play/record. If the photo I saw is accurate, the styling is very similar to the current "XS" Grand Wegas, with speakers on the sides.

Nothing new to report on pricing or availability.

Steve

If the photo I saw is accurate, the styling is very similar to the current "XS" Grand Wegas, with speakers on the sides.
Noooooooooo! :eek:

<You have convinced me. I ran right down to my local A/V shop and asked where they are hiding there selection of 9" CRT Rps and the guy just laughed at me???>

Well, you really need to do your own homework, since 99.9% of the time your local A/V guy is completely ignorant of the technical details - they are just salesboys. Would you wear a blue shirt with BB or CC logo if you had an MIT degree?

Do your homework and be specific. There is only one currently selling model of 73" CRT with 9" guns, same for 65". You can find out the names for yourself ):

Really, I'm not advising anyone to rush and buy a CRT - if you can afford SXRD (assuming it's available @ $4 - 5K) all the more power to you! If you've got say $3K and have the room for it, the 9" CRT is presently the best alternative.

I will post on this subject no more.

<No Contest - CRT Loses>

And can you back it up with analytical reasoning?

<the CRT folks showed up to claim that SXRD still doesn't hold a candle ...>

I'm actually not one of these "CRT folks", simply have enough technical background to understand there are pros and cons to both technologies as far as PQ goes. I wish there was a way to combine the resolution and compactness of SXRD with black level and shadow detail of CRT, but it's not there. Thus the 006 is an impressive piece, but a say 73" Mitsu with 9" CRTs is a formidable competitor just in pure PQ terms.

If you want to maximize PQ for your money - at any budget, it pays to get some education - true in any field. Otherwise you'll end up listening to a lot of silly talk like "my LCD FP blows that thing away" and "No Contest - CRT Loses" from the folks who don't even know how the two technologies physically function.

<I wasn't trying to start a pissing contest >

Me neither

I personally don't see anything wrong with what wholstad has said in this thread. I don't get the impression that he is a "CRT folk" who came to this thread for the sole purpose of starting a pi**ing match about CRT vs SXRD.

I can see people perhaps feeling it is a bit off topic (but not much), but I certainly don't see any reason to jump all over the guy!

Why can't he be serious?

A top notch CRT with 9 inch guns is hard to beat.


I hope he's not serious too.

Noooooooooo! :eek:

Let's hope the speakers are detachable!

I personally don't see anything wrong with what wholstad has said in this thread. I don't get the impression that he is a "CRT folk" who came to this thread for the sole purpose of starting a pi**ing match about CRT vs SXRD.

I can see people perhaps feeling it is a bit off topic (but not much), but I certainly don't see any reason to jump all over the guy!

I agree. I have no doubt in my mind that CRT is the better technology right now in regards to picture quality, only because SXRD is just getting off its feet. CRT projectors have been out forever, and as a result the technology in regards to picture quality is top notch. SXRD will be the same way 10 years from now....of course we will have moved on to some other technology by then.

I currently have a 27" Sony XBR and really don't have room for a 50" set in my room....the 42" A10 is really tempting with the dynamic iris, the 50" SXRD is going to be a tight fit.

tonydeluce,

I think your hopes are reasonable. I wouldn't hold your breath for one in 2005 but Spring or june/july of 2006 would probably be a reasonable time frame. $7k for a 70" SXRD over a year after the Qualia 006 was released seems very possible to me based on the pricing for the 50" and 60" models. I think Sony will probably push it so they can put these things on CCs and BBs floors to give your average consumer, who may not be buying a 70" set, the feeling that Sony rules the world so why don't I buy one that I can afford. Has anyone seen those 70" Hitachis in CCs I just hope they configure them better than those they look appalling.

I hope he's not serious too.

Adding flames to the fire, huh?

Each technology has it's own advantages and disadvantages when compared to the other, that simple. Personally, there is no way that I will be buying another CRT as I prefer the advantages of the digital sets.

By the way, both CRT and SXRD are better than your LCD! :p

As far as the CRT debate, I currently have a CRT, but I have at least realized that fixed pixel displays are far superior. When you capture an HD image in 1920x1080, you want to sell all 1920x1080 pixels -- the same exact way it was recorded. Even the 9" CRTs can't display the entire horizontal resolution of 1920 pixels, plus they become blurred pixels.

At some point everybody has to realize we live in a discrete, digital world and displays will continue moving in that direction. Further, black levels, pixel density, refresh speeds, etc. will continue to improve year after year.

the 70" Hitachi I saw in CC was a monster, way too big for my living room. It was in a side room, with the lights dimmed, it was playing the Fast & the Furious dvd. The black level was just aweful

Here are a couple of bits of info to get the thread back on track. First, I believe the correct model numbers are KDS-R50XBR1 (50") and KDS-R60XBR1 (60"). The sets have 2 HDMI inputs, a PC input, and 3 i.LINK ports which should support HD play/record. If the photo I saw is accurate, the styling is very similar to the current "XS" Grand Wegas, with speakers on the sides.

Nothing new to report on pricing or availability.

Steve

Steve, any chance you could kind of 'hint' at your source? :D

I too hope these models carry the XBR designation, as I'd really like to see a resonably priced XBR set out on the market.

I fear if they are XBRs they won't come in at $3999 (50") and $4999 (60") like earlier rumored.

I like the XS styling, except for the space between the side speakers and screen. Looks fruity to me.

Is there anywhere one can see a pic of these?

Sony if your are listening, I need the 60" at less than 5k, and I need it awesome.

I fear if they are XBRs they won't come in at $3999 (50") and $4999 (60") like earlier rumored.

If they want to compete realistically with JVC, Hitachi, LG, Samsung, Mits, etc. then they will.

Skindig -

Can you lead me to the photo of the 60"SXRD you referred to (or any phots for that matter). I'm hopeful and awaiting this Fall's roll out and neeed to lock onto a "visual" .

the 70" Hitachi I saw in CC was a monster, way too big for my living room. It was in a side room, with the lights dimmed, it was playing the Fast & the Furious dvd. The black level was just aweful

I have a 70VS810 and everyone who sees it wonders why LCDs are supposed to have problems with black levels because they DO see deep blacks on mine.

The CC set was probably miscalibrated or setup wrong - or worse, since it was a DVD instead of HD material, the DVD player was set to interlaced like the setup (which I corrected in the store by permission) which is, well, "just aweful".

Steve, any chance you could kind of 'hint' at your source?

I too hope these models carry the XBR designation, as I'd really like to see a resonably priced XBR set out on the market.

I work for Crutchfield, and I'm writing the SXRD presentation for our Fall catalog, which should begin arriving in mailboxes in early August. I'm getting my info straight from Sony. At this point, I can't really provide any more details.

Skindig -

Can you lead me to the photo of the 60"SXRD you referred to (or any phots for that matter). I'm hopeful and awaiting this Fall's roll out and neeed to lock onto a "visual" .

Unfortunately, the image isn't "out there" yet.

I'll try to provide further details when I'm able, but I will say these sets look to be worth waiting for. Like many of you, I've been in "analysis paralysis" mode for several months, but I have my eye on the 50".

Steve

At this point, I can't really provide any more details.Maybe you can't, but I can. BTW, this BBS does have a "Private Message" system. ;) ;) :p

I work for Crutchfield, and I'm writing the SXRD presentation for our Fall catalog, which should begin arriving in mailboxes in early August. I'm getting my info straight from Sony. At this point, I can't really provide any more details. Steve

Excellent, well thanks for putting up with us :D Are you really excited about SXRD technology? In your personal, off the record opinion, do you think the manufacturers will produce a smaller SXRD set below 50", or does it not make sense at smaller sizes as far as 1080p resolution goes?

Skindig, what information do you have on the recent reports/speculation that Sony may abandon R&D on SXRD? It seems to be at odds with the upcoming SXRD sets.

Skindig, what information do you have on the recent reports/speculation that Sony may abandon R&D on SXRD? It seems to be at odds with the upcoming SXRD sets.

Just curious where you read/heard that. I saw several presentation and news articles in the past 6 months where Sony is trying to push SXRD out to all thier sets, which is just the opposite.

Just curious where you read/heard that. I saw several presentation and news articles in the past 6 months where Sony is trying to push SXRD out to all thier sets, which is just the opposite.

It was apparently a rumor (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5859800&&#post5859800) ... posted (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5860103&&#post5860103) by Alan Gouger in the "paid forum" section of AVS.

The article fails to mention SXRD, so not quite sure where the leap comes from, however, it is made by Gouger.

It was apparently a rumor (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5859800&&#post5859800) ... posted (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5860103&&#post5860103) by Alan Gouger in the "paid forum" section of AVS.

The article fails to mention SXRD, so not quite sure where the leap comes from, however, it is made by Gouger.Does he need sales to pick up in his Samsung 1080p group buy?

Does he need sale to pick up in his Samsung 1080p group buy?

Not sure I understand, Alan is the "owner" of AVSForum, he is not affiliated with TVA, at least not to my knowledge :)

MPEG-4 will substantially increase bandwidth though I am not sure
much broadcast will adopt 1080p immediately...

The people who are looking at MPEG4 are satellite guys and telcos (mainly). They are looking to get more channels on limited bandwidth instead of increasing the resolution of present programming. It makes the only economic sense for migration to MPEG4.

Amateur plants are just testing the waters in their attempt to take over this whole forum--see even new people to the thread aren't being persuaded by the mutual admiration society Qualia thread anymore. I say dive on in Qualians--there are many CRT lovers here and our name is JAWS!!!

whatever...

Not sure what the heck artwood is talking about, although that isn't anything out of the ordinary, but I can't for the life of me recall how that jaws movie saga ended...

Well at least he's not talking about his former "porn star" career and giving us all the "bigger is better 'cause I know" routine...:D

Jason

Do Skindig or anyone else know the expected sizes for the Sony 50" & 60" SXRD models??

Thanks,
CarlosP

I work for Crutchfield, and I'm writing the SXRD presentation for our Fall catalog

Steve.... can you please post the cabinet dimensions of the 60-inch... particularly the overall width.

It's a little cuckoo for cooca puffs to believe Sony is going to back off of SXRD.

Excellent, well thanks for putting up with us Are you really excited about SXRD technology? In your personal, off the record opinion, do you think the manufacturers will produce a smaller SXRD set below 50", or does it not make sense at smaller sizes as far as 1080p resolution goes?

Yes, I've been excited about SXRD since I first saw the prototype of what would become the Qualia 004 at a show a couple of years ago. I also saw the Qualia 006 at CES and the Home Entertainment Show and it's extremely impressive, as just about everyone who sees it agrees.

I first heard about the 50" and 60" SXRD models this past winter. Detailed information has been in short supply. They seemed to be on-again off-again for a while, and it was up in the air as to whether they would be XBR or Qualia products. I think Sony is making the right decision by making the technology available to a broader group of videophiles. I can't wait to see these new models.

Skindig, what information do you have on the recent reports/speculation that Sony may abandon R&D on SXRD? It seems to be at odds with the upcoming SXRD sets.

I hadn't heard that rumor, but it sounds pretty unlikely. Sony has a lot already invested in it, and they're still developing and improving it. That reminds me of a rumor I heard two years ago that TI was going to bail on DLP because they didn't expect volume to grow enough for it to be profitable. Yeah, right.

Steve

That was my reaction to this rumor as well; made no sense at all.

It's a little cuckoo for cooca puffs to believe Sony is going to back off of SXRD.
:D

Sony is already backing out of plasma. If they backed down from SXRD as well, they'd be left with LCD only. LCOS and DLP are currently the only technologies for which large-screen 1080p display is economically feasible. If Sony abandons SXRD, they are basically abandoning 1080p as a display format, since LCD-RP doesn't scale to 1080p nearly as well and they haven't been doing the R&D on 1080p LCD. Regardless of whether you think 1080p makes sense or not, it seems pretty likely that within a couple years 1080p displays will have taken over the over-50" RPTV market.

Basically, Sony pulling out of SXRD only makes sense if they've given up on the HDTV market altogether.

Are these new SXRD sets going to be silver or black?

I work for Crutchfield, and I'm writing the SXRD presentation for our Fall catalog, which should begin arriving in mailboxes in early August. I'm getting my info straight from Sony. At this point, I can't really provide any more details.

Steve, can you comment on price points? Are the rumoured prices mentioned in this thread pretty much in line with your pricing on these models?

And as 5.10 asks above, can you comment on colour?

TIA.

This is from another thread but, I thought since I was the one that initially threw it out there, let me try to put it to bed (I hope the original poster doesn't mind me lifting his post and placing it here):



...


Anyway, I e-mailed the rumor of the curtailing or stoppage of SXRD R&D to my Sony contact back in the U.S.A. and this is the reply.....”We have several new SXRD tech models coming out in the next 6-8 months. I’ve heard nothing to confirm that rumor on my end.”

Au revoir,
Penton

This is from another thread but, I thought since I was the one that initially threw it out there, let me try to put it to bed (I hope the original poster doesn't mind me lifting his post and placing it here):Thanks Ben. I for one think it's rather irresponsible for Alan Gouger to be posting "rumors" of the SXRD's premature death in a pay-only section of the forum without backing it up with sources.

Uninvited Guest

On the other hand, if he was to reveal "deep throat", then his source might dry up.

By the way, what do you think "rumor" means, anyway. lol

Uninvited Guest

On the other hand, if he was to reveal "deep throat", then his source might dry up.Follow the money :D

Horse Poohey! CRT Folks love roaming and sniping at people that can afford a real HT, they do it on plasma, LCD, DLP, - they must get bored over in the nothing new for 20 years area that cannot afford a HT and figure they'll snipe what they cannot afford or experience. That view they see in a frickin B&M doesn't compare to what they look like in your home.

Besides someone who owns a 006 knows they don't need to debate the quality they are too busy experiencing it and the proposition that a CRT could touch a Q006 is ludicrous. I gave my 2.5 yr old 36" Sony CRT to a charity and my LCD FP blows that thing away. CRT Snipers rotate through every forum making claims they cannot support with any objective FACTS or any Poll where anyone would choose that CRT all things being equal with budget. No Contest - CRT Loses and that is why they are relegated to the corners and backwalls of the store. ;)

You are kind of a jag.

I could have bought a Qualia 006. I went it to Abt Electronics in Glenview, IL and saw it. I had them roll up the 65" Mits WS-65815 next to it. I compared them for hours on a variety of source material.

I will say that the Qualia 006 is very impressive. I would say it was a near equal to the Mits WS-65815, but I still thought I liked the picture of the Mits better.

So I went with the Mits. And I saved $10,000.

Yahoooooo! We're all thrilled that you like your TV and saved a bunch of money to boot...

Jason

If Alan Gouger says anything I believe it! Just remember Industry Plants--he might tolerate you-you might even contribute to his financial well being--but the spirit of AVS and the spirit of Alan Gouger will always be not about sales but about truth! I'm not even worthy to interpret what he says! The rest of you people out there--the cynics, the Qualians, the Industry Plants, you can say anthing you want to about me and the truth but the real truth is a friend of mine--a man who's furthered Video enthusiasts more than anyone in history--his name is Alan Gouger and all the rest of you are no Alan Gouger!

If Alan Gouger says anything I believe it! Just remember Industry Plants--he might tolerate you-you might even contribute to his financial well being--but the spirit of AVS and the spirit of Alan Gouger will always be not about sales but about truth! I'm not even worthy to interpret what he says! The rest of you people out there--the cynics, the Qualians, the Industry Plants, you can say anthing you want to about me and the truth but the real truth is a friend of mine--a man who's furthered Video enthusiasts more than anyone in history--his name is Alan Gouger and all the rest of you are no Alan Gouger!

Ummm... exactly how does this contribute to my learning about the new 60" Sony SXRD sets coming this fall? That's right, it doesn't -- so go away, please. Alan doesn't need some incomprehensible off-topic (drunken?) rambling to defend him.

Some people seem scared that Sony is preparing to roll out sxrd on a wider scale. I welcome competition, I welcome new sxrd products.

Ignore Artwood...he rarely brings anything of merit to the discussion...though his seemingly drunken ramblings and storytelling can sometimes be amusing...

Jason

I work for Crutchfield, and I'm writing the SXRD presentation for our Fall catalog, which should begin arriving in mailboxes in early August. I'm getting my info straight from Sony. At this point, I can't really provide any more details.

Steve

Hi Steve AND everyone,

This is my first post in the SXRD thread. Steve, I was wondering by the word 'presentation' you mean w/ pictures, right? If so, then I can't hardly wait to get my Crutchfield catalog. Or is it just going to be a write-up (description) on SXRD technology? TIA.

Matthew

P.S.

Sorry to everyone for grammar/formatting errors.

Notice friends and neighbors that Alana Gouger has said that I was drunk. The quality plants have also been silent.

It would be quite logical to feel that Sony would produce 50 and 60-inch SXRD sets--but it was also logical to conclude that Mitsubishi would produce LCoS sets after their 82-inch high priced foray. It didn't happen that way now did it?

What DO we know about Sony? We do know they are more an entertainment company now and that does not necessarily equate to being as focused on the Display side of the equation. When auto makers make less and less models of cars we question their staying power. Is it drunk rambling storytelling to wonder if Sony makes NO DLP, less and less Plasma, and can't quite set the woods on fire with the quality of Flat Panel LCD and Rear Projection LCD while selling less and less CRT that maybe just maybe the SXRD Qualia while a great technological achievement might be too expensive a player in the Video display market for the masses and that because of this the ENTERTAINMET people who now have more control of that company might focus the company's efforts elsewhere?

I'm not raining on SXRD's parade. I didn't rain on the 40XBR800's parade either. I didn't rain on Sony Trinitron's tube's parade either. Some things about Sony I love. The real question about SXRD in smaller sizes isn't about technological feasibility, but about mass market share at a reasonable profit--am I drunk for wondering about that?

JasonColeman:you are correct and sometimes my posts are nothing but jokes but many times behind the joke there is an element of truth to them. So the next time you pass by your local video store and you DON'T see 50 or 60-inch SXRD remember the friend of Alan Gouger and the truth DIDN'T send you!

<Some people seem scared that Sony is preparing to roll out sxrd on a wider scale. I welcome competition, I welcome new sxrd products. >

Why - what sexy technology are you selling ):

Steve, besides confirming that the model numbers for the SXRDs are KDS-R50XBR1 and KDS-R60XBR1 can you also confirm whether the new models can accept 1080p over HDMI? Currently that is the biggest question most people have on these new SXRDs. Also like Tele-TV I am interested in whether the fall Crutchfield catalog will have pictures on the actual sets? Any information would be appreciated and will also understand if such information can't be released yet.

Thanks Ben. I for one think it's rather irresponsible for Alan Gouger to be posting "rumors" of the SXRD's premature death in a pay-only section of the forum without backing it up with sources.

He later mentioned that he confirmed that the above is *not* true.

That is, SXRD is alive and well and Sony is committed to its success.

I have a 70VS810 and everyone who sees it wonders why LCDs are supposed to have problems with black levels because they DO see deep blacks on mine.

The grounding scheme of the system affects the picture quality, especially the black level.

The grounding scheme of the system affects the picture quality, especially the black level.


Please elaborate.

Sorry if I'm repeating something already mentioned in this thread. But a picture and User's Manual for the SXRD sets is available at the following: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=xbr_projection&Dept=tvvideo&ProductSKU=KDF60XBR950#specs

Sorry if I'm repeating something already mentioned in this thread. But a picture and User's Manual for the SXRD sets is available at the following: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=xbr_projection&Dept=tvvideo&ProductSKU=KDF60XBR950#specs :confused: That's not an SXRD display; that's the 60XBR950 3LCD-RPTV that's been available for a while now.

rlb

Isn't that the current XBR rear projection LCD, not the soon to be released SXRD??

Yup...it even has a DVI connection...:)

Jason

Yup...it even has a DVI connection...:)

JasonMy Grandpa used to tell us kids stories about DVI... ah, the good ol' days ;)

My Grandpa used to tell us kids stories about DVI... ah, the good ol' days ;)
LOL

Those were the good old days--noboby was afraid of Firewire then!

I noticed in one of the posts below that there is a "possibility" for a new 70" SXRD TV to go along with the 50 and 60 inchers. Anyone have any additional news or comments on this? I am guessing this will be the replacement for the aging 70XBR950 and not a replacement for the Qualia 006.

I noticed in one of the posts below that there is a "possibility" for a new 70" SXRD TV to go along with the 50 and 60 inchers. Anyone have any additional news or comments on this? I am guessing this will be the replacement for the aging 70XBR950 and not a replacement for the Qualia 006.

I don't believe anything has been announced but it only follows that either
a new 70in. Qualia or 70in. SXRD XBR set will come out based on the new
and improved SXRD panels.

Throwing caution to the wind, and assuming that the pricing we've tossed around is correct (3999 & 4999 for the 50" and 60" respectively), any ideas what the 70" set might be priced at...assuming that there even will be a 70" SXRD in this rollout. The 60" XBR, like the 60" SXRD, is priced at 4999 (at SonyStyle) and the 70" is 6999...might the new SXRDs follow this pricing trend or has the Qualia propelled the new 70" sets into a new fiscal realm?

Just seeing what my options are...

Jason

Steve, besides confirming that the model numbers for the SXRDs are KDS-R50XBR1 and KDS-R60XBR1...
Okay, now I'm confused...where did these model #s come from? I thought that the new SXRDs were going to be KDS-RxxA10...

Is there news that these will be part of the XBR lineup (that would suggest that there will most likely be a 70" model! :D )

hope...hope...

Just googled Richard Paul's model number and came up empty (which might not mean anything, but the KDS-RxxA10 does give a few pertinent hits).

Jason

Okay, now I'm confused...where did these model #s come from?...from earlier in the thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5881796&&#post5881796). :) Skindig works for Crutchfield and has gotten this information directly from Sony for the SXRD write-up he's doing for the Fall catalog.

Adam,

Thanks, I forgot about that post. What confuses me is that there's literally nothing out there on the XBR model #s while there is some information about the model #s that were originally posted here in this thread.

Jason

Throwing caution to the wind, and assuming that the pricing we've tossed around is correct (3999 & 4999 for the 50" and 60" respectively), any ideas what the 70" set might be priced at...assuming that there even will be a 70" SXRD in this rollout. The 60" XBR, like the 60" SXRD, is priced at 4999 (at SonyStyle) and the 70" is 6999...might the new SXRDs follow this pricing trend or has the Qualia propelled the new 70" sets into a new fiscal realm?

Just seeing what my options are...

Jason

Pure speculation but I believe if the 70in was XBR and used same components
as 50in and 60in. it would probably come in around $6999 but if it came out
as a Qualia it probably be priced higher but have higher end optics, etc.

So I just got off the phone with a product rep at SonyStyle and he assured me that these would indeed be coming out in the next couple of months. :) However, he couldn't comment on whether or not there would be a 70" model or if these sets indeed have the XBR designation. He alluded, however, to the fact that there would also be a 55" model, not just the 50" and the 60". He said that more information would be available in "just a few weeks..."

Jason

Sony... can't quite set the woods on fire with the quality of Flat Panel LCD and Rear Projection LCD while selling less and less CRT...

Artwood, I would recheck your source before you say anything like this. I have seen an analyst report (perhaps covering TI??) on this industry (specifically the RPTV market) recently that said Sony was having tremendous success 'market share' and volume-wise with a recently lower priced LCD RP product range. In fact his claim was that it had caused them to redouble their efforts in the RP area in general. I think that in the RP category Sony was the hands down winner for the last 2 consecutive quarters, mostly due to price pressure. He went on to say clearly that Sony sees a high end and a mid-range market, the SRXD is the high end, and the LCD RP is their mid market product for the next 18-24 months at least. This was seen as a risk to DLP in price at the mid range, and in performance in the high end.

I will see if I can find a link, and apologize if this has already been posted.

EDIT: OK I found the link, but it is now broken. I suspect that the 'Free' period for this analyst report has expired. It was from Displaysearch, and originally linked from a broker web, but now the link is dead. It may also be that the 2Q05 report is soon to be released, as this was a quarterly report.

In fact his claim was that it had caused them to redouble their efforts in the RP area in general.Sure sounds like wobbulation to me. :p

Sorry for the delayed responses, folks. It's getting down to the wire on our deadlines and things are a little hectic.

This is my first post in the SXRD thread. Steve, I was wondering by the word 'presentation' you mean w/ pictures, right? If so, then I can't hardly wait to get my Crutchfield catalog. Or is it just going to be a write-up (description) on SXRD technology? TIA.

Matthew


There will be a standard presentation with a description and photo. Actually, there's a good chance it will be up on our website before the catalog hits.

Steve, besides confirming that the model numbers for the SXRDs are KDS-R50XBR1 and KDS-R60XBR1 can you also confirm whether the new models can accept 1080p over HDMI? Currently that is the biggest question most people have on these new SXRDs. Also like Tele-TV I am interested in whether the fall Crutchfield catalog will have pictures on the actual sets? Any information would be appreciated and will also understand if such information can't be released yet.

The model numbers I listed came straight from Sony. However, I'm not 100% sure they're correct because I was also told that these models will not be referred to as XBR, but rather Grand Wega SXRD.

By the way, I've not heard anything different from the pricing that's been mentioned in this thread already.

Steve

Sorry for the delayed responses, folks. It's getting down to the wire on our deadlines and things are a little hectic.



There will be a standard presentation with a description and photo. Actually, there's a good chance it will be up on our website before the catalog hits.

Steve

STEVE:

Thanks Steve. That would be even better (lol) if there was a pic on the Crutchfield site before the catalog came out. I still remember the day I got the issue/catalog where you guys had the Super Fine Pitch Tube presentation. I was devastated to find out about SFP because I just had bought a Philips tube TV more than 30 days before (STUPID! me).

COULD THE PICTURE APPEAR ON THE SITE BEFORE AUGUST? Thanks!

GUYS:

I never been so excited/never wanted anything more before than a big (#1 Choice - SXRD; [#2 - Choice MITS Second level from bottom 1080p DLP??]) TV. This would be my first TV bigger than 36."

In regards to JASONColeman call to Sony Style, and about the rep saying there would be a 55" incher as well (if true), I wonder how or is this would affect the pricing/MSRP?

Thanks, Matthew/Tele-TV .

So I just got off the phone with a product rep at SonyStyle and he assured me that these would indeed be coming out in the next couple of months. :) However, he couldn't comment on whether or not there would be a 70" model or if these sets indeed have the XBR designation. He alluded, however, to the fact that there would also be a 55" model, not just the 50" and the 60". He said that more information would be available in "just a few weeks..."

Jason

If Sony announced a 70in. SXRD XBR at say $6999 all sales of the Qualia 06 would
likely stop until people could at least compare the two.

I don't believe they will announce another 70in. until they are ready to
discontinue the current Qualia 06 model...

If 006 owners are Qualians will SXRD 50 and 60-inch owners be Qualiaettes?

I currently own a KF-60XBR800 and am ready for an upgrade. When I saw at CEDIA 2004 what was at the time the KDS-70XBR100 available for "under $10,000", I was all set. But by CES 2005 it had morphed into the Qualia 006 for $13,000.

While I would consider a new 60" SXRD model, I really would like something slightly bigger, like a 70". If Sony comes out with a 70" SXRD at a reasonable price, I'm in.

While I would consider a new 60" SXRD model, I really would like something slightly bigger, like a 70". If Sony comes out with a 70" SXRD at a reasonable price, I'm in.

I'd like to see that, too. In time for the Holidays would be great, but I would settle on having it for the Superbowl! It's just that, somehow, March seems more realistic. AAahhrrrrrrrggggg!!! I really hope I get my Holiday wish this year and "S" (Sony? Santa? Somebody?) makes an early delivery of a Super 70!

If these sets are a direct replacement for the aging XBR line, which is still up in the air, then a 70" SXRD would seem in order. However, if they're designating a new line altogether for the new SXRDs, then a 70" might be less likely. Other than the Qualia (in a fiscal league of its own) and the XBR950 (how many years old?), they don't have an available 70" model, so it seems to me (hope...hope...) that a new behemoth makes sense...especially when you look at the competition (particularly Mitsubishi who's rolling out 3 73" sets before year-end).

Wishfully thinking,

Jason

If these sets are a direct replacement for the aging XBR line, which is still up in the air, then a 70" SXRD would seem in order. However, if they're designating a new line altogether for the new SXRDs, then a 70" might be less likely. Other than the Qualia (in a fiscal league of its own) and the XBR950 (how many years old?), they don't have an available 70" model, so it seems to me (hope...hope...) that a new behemoth makes sense...especially when you look at the competition (particularly Mitsubishi who's rolling out 3 73" sets before year-end).

Wishfully thinking,

Jason


Jason actually I hadn't really thought of it that way but you make a VERY good point. While I am the first to admit I'm running on wishful thinking in regards to the 70" XBR SXRD and will probably scoop one up as soon as I can see one. But the point remains that if the 50" and (maybe 55") 60" are to be Sony's "High" end that it would be a bit silly to have their current 70" XBR topping that line. The more I think ab out it the more it makes sense to me that Sony may becomingg out with a 70" XRB SXRD with or just after the 50" and 60" are released. They may simply be hiding that fact as was stated above to keeQualiaia sales (which I understand have been pretty good) from freezing. Sony may be rightly concerned with people cancelling and postponing orders oQualiasas if they find out that a 70"XBR SXRD iscomingg out in a few months at almost half the price. And it would probably be a strong blow against the Samsung 6768 and 7178 1080p wobulation sets that are about to be released at about the sameapproximatee price.

Well here's to hopping that enough wishful thinking can makes something come true. And a notice to any new forum viewers that at this point any information about a 70" XBR SXRD is just speculation on our part and has no confirmed sources of any kind.

Sorry for the delayed responses, folks. It's getting down to the wire on our deadlines and things are a little hectic.

There will be a standard presentation with a description and photo. Actually, there's a good chance it will be up on our website before the catalog hits.

The model numbers I listed came straight from Sony. However, I'm not 100% sure they're correct because I was also told that these models will not be referred to as XBR, but rather Grand Wega SXRD.

By the way, I've not heard anything different from the pricing that's been mentioned in this thread already.

Steve

skindig, we would really like you to confirm or deny, when you get concrete info on these new XBR/SXRD models, whether they will accept 1080p over HDMI-in to these sets. Rumor is they would, since the PS3 will be out next spring (hopefully)

skindig,

In an earlier post you mentioned that based on a picture you had seen, you thought these new sets might have side speakers. Have you gotten any confirmation of that, and if so, do you know if the speakers would be removable like on the Qualia?

It would seem strange for Sony to go with the old non-removable side speakers on these sets when they've gone away from them on both the Qualia and the new LCD models (speakers below the screen).

If these sets are a direct replacement for the aging XBR line, which is still up in the air, then a 70" SXRD would seem in order. However, if they're designating a new line altogether for the new SXRDs, then a 70" might be less likely. Other than the Qualia (in a fiscal league of its own) and the XBR950 (how many years old?), they don't have an available 70" model, so it seems to me (hope...hope...) that a new behemoth makes sense...especially when you look at the competition (particularly Mitsubishi who's rolling out 3 73" sets before year-end).

Wishfully thinking,

JasonMy salesguy at a Magnolia store inside Best Buy told me yesterday, eventhough there's no firm info from Sony about the new SXRD sets. The Sony rep told him the XBR950 60 & 70 are no longer being produced. They should sell them out to make room for new models.

...the XBR950 60 & 70 are no longer being produced. They should sell them out to make room for new models.
Exactly my point...is Sony's only 70" set going to be the $13k Qualia? That doesn't make sense at all...especially with Mits coming in under $5500 msrp for a 73" set. Hopefully these details will reveal themselves sooner than later. I've been putting off buying a new TV to replace our 10-yr-old 35" tube TV and had resigned myself to the XS (despite the hideous side speakers) until I heard of the SXRDs. I figure I'll wait until there's concrete information on the new sets and then make my move.

Jason

Couldn't find a answer in the SXRD or Qualia thread.

Has anyone CONSIDERED (entertained the thought) to themselves about putting (a) mesh fabric over (some of) the vents on the SXRD to keep out insects? I have an insect problem in my house. I know that in other threads people say open that baby up and remove the bug, but I would never feel comfortable MYSELF opeing up the TV. And I don't want to have a tech come out if, God forbid, a bug should get inside [everytime]. Is there any reason to believe (Qualia Owners/anyone) this would not be a good idea to do w/ the SXRD?

Thanks.

I hope we'll get the leftovers....

July 12th, 2005 01:05 PM EDT
China Next Stop for Sony Flat-Panel TVs

Nikkei Weekly via NewsEdge Corporation
Sony Corp. plans to begin selling wide-screen rear projection televisions in China by next February.

The models to be released by Sony incorporate liquid-crystal display components dubbed SXRD, with a resolution of 1,920 x 1,080 dots, and are compatible with the Full High-Vision standard. A 70-inch rear projection TV sells for around 1.7 million yen in Japan, but the company plans to market smaller sizes in China and keep prices below those in Japan.

Sony's strategy is to focus flat-panel TV resources on both LCD and rear projection models. It will offer the rear projection TVs in sizes too large for LCD models to match.

I don't think people fully get Sony. They could easily leave a gap of $6000 between a 60-inch TV in one line and a $13,000 TV in another line. They leave gigantic gaps in their home projector line, too.

Eventually, a less expensive 70 inch will ship. But given the volumes on such a set irrespective of price, I wouldn't hold my breath.

As for a "bug screen", screen material from a home depot seems pretty harmless as it won't stop heat from escaping. You could create a velcro border and tightly fasten the backing to the TV and the screen to the velcro. Should work.

I don't think people fully get Sony. They could easily leave a gap of $6000 between a 60-inch TV in one line and a $13,000 TV in another line. They leave gigantic gaps in their home projector line, too.

Eventually, a less expensive 70 inch will ship. But given the volumes on such a set irrespective of price, I wouldn't hold my breath.

As for a "bug screen", screen material from a home depot seems pretty harmless as it won't stop heat from escaping. You could create a velcro border and tightly fasten the backing to the TV and the screen to the velcro. Should work.


The other aspect of Sony is that they have historically (always/forever) commanded a price premium just for the Sony name...never did like that about them :)

As for the bug screen, I would just be very careful about impeding airflow; generally, the finer the mesh, the less airflow. So, depending on the size of your insects :) you may be able to get away with some sort of screen but I would bet the screen you would need is like what you find on outside door/window screens and they do impede airflow; not sure by how much.

Thanks for your help/advice on the bug screen(s). Yeh, your right guys. It comes down to airflow. Which in turn could affect the operating temp of the product. Rogo, in regards to your Home Depot comment, I'll have to check-out/research what type of mesh fabrics are there on the market. I want to find this stuff out now, so when I do get my TV, I can just enjoy it.

Do you guys know (OFF-HAND) if there is a like a little meter device that measure heat output (sorry, haven't searched Google yet)? Like thouse little little meter that measure sound (output). If there is such a device, then I can cross reference the heat output on my TV (w/ the bug screen on), w/ what the manual says is normal operating temp. Thanks.

The Sony GWIV line has a menu setting entitled "high altitude". What it does is increase the fan speed to maintain airflow in thinner air. If the SXRD sets have the same setting, you could probably get away with a fine screen if you enable it. The higher fan speed may balance the restricted airflow caused by the screen. I know there are filters inside the GWIV's...much like the kind in a window A/C unit's air intake, but they didn't appear to be sealed.

Sean

The Sony GWIV line has a menu setting entitled "high altitude". What it does is increase the fan speed to maintain airflow in thinner air. If the SXRD sets have the same setting, you could probably get away with a fine screen if you enable it. The higher fan speed may balance the restricted airflow caused by the screen. I know there are filters inside the GWIV's...much like the kind in a window A/C unit's air intake, but they didn't appear to be sealed.

Sean

Thanks Sean. We shall wait and see if Sony implements this feature in the SXRD. Options are ALWAYS good. Well unless, some of the times, you want the TV to get the market w/ a certain price point (lol). Sony is always coming up w/ innovative ideas/products. Like that dark screen ("black") that hangs on the wall for front projectors. Where you can watch a FP w/ more light on/coming in the room. And of course Super Fine Pitch Tube.

Matthew

I don't think people fully get Sony. They could easily leave a gap of $6000 between a 60-inch TV in one line and a $13,000 TV in another line. They leave gigantic gaps in their home projector line, too.

Eventually, a less expensive 70 inch will ship. But given the volumes on such a set irrespective of price, I wouldn't hold my breath.

As for a "bug screen", screen material from a home depot seems pretty harmless as it won't stop heat from escaping. You could create a velcro border and tightly fasten the backing to the TV and the screen to the velcro. Should work.

Technically speaking from the point of view of Sony, the $13K Qualia and the XBR are not two separate lines; they are from two separate entities of the same company. Much akin to Toyota and Lexus, Qualia cannot be defined within ‘regular’ Sony boundaries.

There are several reasons why the Qualia is about double that of the XBR. First of, the Qualia utilizes SXRD instead of LCD, which means it uses newer / better technology to display images. Secondly SXRD displays at 1080p, whereas the XBR displays at 720p and when it was released the Qualia was the only LCOS (SXRD) display that had a native display of 1080p. Thirdly, the Qualia has more inputs than the XBR; namely 2 HDMI (which truly are an essential necessity to an HDTV).

Are the upgrades worth double the cost of the 70” XBR? Well that’s a relative question based on 2 primary factors: your monetary ability and what you consider is worth for you to spend money on.

Jon.

Thanks Sean. We shall wait and see if Sony implements this feature in the SXRD. Options are ALWAYS good. Well unless, some of the times, you want the TV to get the market w/ a certain price point (lol). Sony is always coming up w/ innovative products. Like that dark screen ("black") that hangs on the wall for front projectors. Where you can watch a FP w/ more light on/coming in.

Matthew


The Qualia 006 does have this high altitude setting. Great idea by the way (on Sean's part)!

Technically speaking from the point of view of Sony, the $13K Qualia and the XBR are not two separate lines; they are from two separate entities of the same company. Much akin to Toyota and Lexus, Qualia cannot be defined within ‘regular’ Sony boundaries.

There are several reasons why the Qualia is about double that of the XBR. First of, the Qualia utilizes SXRD instead of LCD, which means it uses newer / better technology to display images. Secondly SXRD displays at 1080p, whereas the XBR displays at 720p and when it was released the Qualia was the only LCOS (SXRD) display that had a native display of 1080p. Thirdly, the Qualia has more inputs than the XBR; namely 2 HDMI (which truly are an essential necessity to an HDTV).

Are the upgrades worth double the cost of the 70” XBR? Well that’s a relative question based on 2 primary factors: your monetary ability and what you consider is worth for you to spend money on.

Jon.

While what you say is true about Qualia vs. Sony (i.e., Lexus vs. Toyota), I think you mixed apples and oranges. The original discussion was that within the SXRD line (or more accurately between Qualia SXRD and non-Qualia SXRD, or maybe even entirely within the non-Qualia SXRD line itself), they could leave the 6K gap, not between SXRD and LCD.

The model numbers I listed came straight from Sony. However, I'm not 100% sure they're correct because I was also told that these models will not be referred to as XBR, but rather Grand Wega SXRD.That makes sense. If Sony is going to call them Grand Wega SXRD than most likely the model numbers will be the KDS-R50A10 and KDS-R60A10. Also could you tell us if the article you are writing on the SXRDs might mention 1080p HDMI inputs?

Also could you tell us if the article you are writing on the SXRDs might mention 1080p HDMI inputs?

IMHO, I think this is the question that us guys who are waiting for SXRD want answered. :D There are two people who post in this thread (sorry!, can't remember who), who say the opposite thing about a 1080p HDMI input on the SXRD. One of you guys says/said yes it will have it, and the other one said no. Or maybe I'm thinking of 1080p 60fs HDMI vs. 1080p --fs. I don't know. All this speculation is making my head spin (lol). But what we all want is 1080p 60fs, correct??? [This is what "makes" me want the SXRD over a Mits 1080p DLP.]

BenDover:

Thanks for the heads up about the Qualia having the 'High Altitude' feature.

Guys:

The SXRD thread is alive and kicking thanks to your good questions/speculations. Right now, I THINK SKINDIG (Steve) is the most sought after man. :D

Matthew

...I THINK SKINDIG (Steve) is the most sought after man.

Yeah, kind of like DenonJeff there for a while...:D

Jason

Yeah, kind of like DenonJeff there for a while...:D

Jason

Care to enlighten me about DenonJeff in this regard? :confused: A BRIEF explanation is fine if that's all you have time for. Thanks Jeff.

-- Matthew

Do you guys know (OFF-HAND) if there is a like a little meter device that measure heat output (sorry, haven't searched Google yet)? Like thouse little little meter that measure sound (output).

Yes, search for "infrared thermometer." They vary widely in price, and many come with a laser pointer for easy aiming. I think I saw one reasonably priced at Sears just recently.

a better meter in this case might be airflow since that is what you will be affecting. so long as you can keep the same amount of airflow, or nearly the same (maybe that is where a heat sensor would come in handy to determine the effect if you somehow curtail the airflow), you should be ok.

Again, Sony can charge whatever it wants, leave whatever gap it wants, do nothing if it wants, etc.

They do that all the time.

Their home-theater projectors are $3000 and $30000. There is a huge part of the market betwen $4000 and $14000. Sony offers nothing there.

It doesn't even strain the imagination a little for Sony to say: 50-inch = $4000, 60inch = $5000 (or whatever the pricing is) and 70-inch = Qualia = $13,000.

That said, I believe the SXRD Qualia RPTV might be the first Qualia to see a dramatic price decrease (no fanfare, it'll just happen) and move to $10,000. I'm pretty sure the market for $13,000 RPTVs is about sated right now and with the plethora of competition (Samsung, LG, JVC, et al.), I don't see Sony doing too well numbers-wise at $13K. That will eventually bore them enough to do something about it.

Rogo-

Why not just simply replace the aging XBR with a non-Qualia 70" set. How long has the 70" XBR been out? I see your points, as you make them well, but it would seem to me that Sony would be ignoring a very large and growing market...those people who want something larger than 60" (myself included). Maybe that's their perogative, but it seems foolish when so many of their competitors are satisfying that portion of the market and cashing in on the rewards. Even if they drop the Qualia below 10k, it will be nearly double what other mfr's are getting for their 70" sets.

Jason

What drives people to 70" sets or maybe a better question is what keeps people from the 70" sets. For some money, but for most, they just think "they are" too big.

That's because far too many folks -- even at AVS -- do not understand that the reason for HD is to provide the pixels needed to meet either SMPTE, or better yet, THX screen-size specifications.

HD is not to replace your TV -- even your big old RPTV. It's to provide a theater viewing experience! And, you don't need a "home theater" to have this. A blank wall, a projector that presents a 72" image, and a couch 9 feet from the screen will give you that viewing experience. Anything less, and no matter how much you spend -- you are still just watching last century TV.

We need to educate folks that size is critical -- and that HD technology decisions are relevant in terms of their ability to deliver image size. For this reason, both LCD and plasma can't be used because -- in most American living rooms -- they can't meet SMPTE/THX specs. Only FPTV or RPTV can do this.

Even those, like me, who live in a tiny NYC coop, need a 60-70 inch screen. Looking at the living/family rooms of those in suburbia -- 70-inches will be too small unless you arrange the viewing area to keep folks no more than 10 feet from the screen.

As I read the posts from those talking about buying a 42- or 55-inch HDTV, I keep wondering if they have ever seen a movie in a real theater or visited a friend with a projector.

Looking at the Sony RPTVs coming this year -- there is only one valid reason not to go with the biggest Sony makes -- price. Sony is solving the width factor.

I will admit that turned-off these will FEEL big -- likely TOO BIG. But, once turned-on, you will only notice a wild viewing experience. You'll never go back.

Lastly, your SD DVDs may look less good so big. But in 3 years, when you have your HD DVD, you'll toss your DVDs because they'll look as bad as your VHS movie collection. (That's why it makes no sense to buy NTSC DVDs.)

Likewise, don't buy a DV camcorder. Go with Sony's new $2000 HDV camcorder.

And pray, channels like TCM, AMC, IFC, Sundance, Starz, etc. move their film libraries to HD and go HD because, by then, most everything else including the news will be HD. Thus, the SD factor will be much less of a factor in big screen HDTVs.

73-inch 1080p at 9 feet = real home theater!

Something that I'm not sure has been mentioned, but I don't think Sony sees Qualia as a money-making line. It's a prestige line used to make available "commercially unfeasable" products to those who can afford them. These are essentially "concept" products that haven't been through the BOM/cost reduction department yet. They don't expect to sell a lot, and I'm sure they wouldn't sacrafice their money-making mass-market lineup just to sell a few hundred more Qualias. These are also pretty much built-to-order, so it's not like they have a warehouse of them sitting around waiting to sell.

I'm sure it's just that, at that moment, it was determined that the 70" SXRD product that was developed and shown at CEDIA could not be made cheap enough for mass market sales. However it had already been designed, so why not make it a Qualia and sell it anyways. I'm sure that since then they've been working hard on chopping the design down to a level where it can be made efficiently and inexpensively enough for mass market sales. I'm sure a 70" model will be forthcoming, but it might not be until a little while after they test the waters with the 50/60" models. But I do hope it comes out right away.

[QUOTE=1080p [/QUOTE]

There is not one reason for 1080p as NO programming exits at 1080p other than a few WM9 demo disks from Microsoft.

Not only is there nothing that can carry 1080p, there are no production systems (switchers, etc.) that can be used to produce 1080p programming. And, why would networs making no money on 1080i upgrade to 1080p? Why would DBS akready squeezing 1080i in an efffort to get more HD local channels, go 1080p. There is no business model to justify it.

Thus no HD disk, cable TV, DBS, or broadcast station will have 1080p.

Since there is no 1080p programming Input -- there is no need for 1080p Output.

Most video circuits driving display elements cannot pass a true 1080i bandwidth. No matter what the marketing BS -- the lack of source material and devices plus the very high cost of 1080p circuitry, will mean you'll never see 1080p no matter what the display runs at.

Remember that the optical engine for an RPTV and front projector are basically the same. You need different lenses, brighter lamp etc, so the costs can go up some, but the guts are similar enough that volume efficiencies could be realized across the two for polarization, SXRD panels, dichroics etc.

So, a front projector using the optical engines of the 50"-60" RPTVs (which are obviously less expensive than Qualia) somewhere in the $3k-$30k gap is possible. Combine that with the unique (regrettably NOT roll-able) Sony 3 color reflecting screen that was shown at SID and InfoComm last year and voila, 70", 80" even 100" nicely bright images for your family room TV.

Canon is selling a perfectly nice LCOS projector at 1400x1050 resolution for around $5k. If Sony could bring one out at say $7k, could that be a replacement for the 70" class RPTV? The Qualia gets the same engine as the new TVs (higher performance in contrast at least) and a price cut to $8-9k for people who absolutely must have a 70" RPTV.

Who knows? But it is fun to talk about ...

That's because far too many folks -- even at AVS -- do not understand that the reason for HD is to provide the pixels needed to meet either SMPTE, or better yet, THX screen-size specifications.

HD is not to replace your TV -- even your big old RPTV. It's to provide a theater viewing experience! And, you don't need a "home theater" to have this. A blank wall, a projector that presents a 72" image, and a couch 9 feet from the screen will give you that viewing experience. Anything less, and no matter how much you spend -- you are still just watching last century TV.

We need to educate folks that size is critical -- and that HD technology decisions are relevant in terms of their ability to deliver image size. For this reason, both LCD and plasma can't be used because -- in most American living rooms -- they can't meet SMPTE/THX specs. Only FPTV or RPTV can do this.

Even those, like me, who live in a tiny NYC coop, need a 60-70 inch screen. Looking at the living/family rooms of those in suburbia -- 70-inches will be too small unless you arrange the viewing area to keep folks no more than 10 feet from the screen.

As I read the posts from those talking about buying a 42- or 55-inch HDTV, I keep wondering if they have ever seen a movie in a real theater or visited a friend with a projector.

Looking at the Sony RPTVs coming this year -- there is only one valid reason not to go with the biggest Sony makes -- price. Sony is solving the width factor.

I will admit that turned-off these will FEEL big -- likely TOO BIG. But, once turned-on, you will only notice a wild viewing experience. You'll never go back.

Lastly, your SD DVDs may look less good so big. But in 3 years, when you have your HD DVD, you'll toss your DVDs because they'll look as bad as your VHS movie collection. (That's why it makes no sense to buy NTSC DVDs.)

Likewise, don't buy a DV camcorder. Go with Sony's new $2000 HDV camcorder.

And pray, channels like TCM, AMC, IFC, Sundance, Starz, etc. move their film libraries to HD and go HD because, by then, most everything else including the news will be HD. Thus, the SD factor will be much less of a factor in big screen HDTVs.


These are excellent points, and I agree entirely.

I think this post could (should) be placed in several other threads in this section of the forum. Many people are asking if they will be releasing SMALLER sets in the 1080p DLP lines!!!

Rogo-

Why not just simply replace the aging XBR with a non-Qualia 70" set. How long has the 70" XBR been out? I see your points, as you make them well, but it would seem to me that Sony would be ignoring a very large and growing market...those people who want something larger than 60" (myself included). Maybe that's their perogative, but it seems foolish when so many of their competitors are satisfying that portion of the market and cashing in on the rewards. Even if they drop the Qualia below 10k, it will be nearly double what other mfr's are getting for their 70" sets.

I think you are not getting it: This is NOT about logic.

It's about someone not getting around to something that might well make sense, but isn't free.

And with all due respect, the market is not really growing for 70-inch RPTVs. The WAF is still zero and the number of rooms that can fit them -- while growing -- remains small.

I'm sure the existing XBR moves a small number every month and someone at Sony is happy. And I'm sure they'll ship another one at some point. But it probably makes more economic sense to ship 1/3 as many Qualias at $13,000 as it does to ship 3x that many XBRs at $7,000 given the margins.

Oh my god I finally saw the Qualia at Tweeter and it had the best picture by far of any hdtv i have ever seen!!!! The colors, the sharpness, no screendoor, totally PERFECT picture ... Samsung 6178W nearby looked like garbage compared to it. I cant wait for the 60 inch version!

These are excellent points, and I agree entirely.

I think this post could (should) be placed in several other threads in this section of the forum. Many people are asking if they will be releasing SMALLER sets in the 1080p DLP lines!!!

here, here! I am so glad to hear all the talk about big screens nowadays! I have a 65" and could not imagine going an inch less, and am looking forward to 70 or greater.

I just started reading this thread. I avoided it because of the title only referring to 50 and 60 inchers. So perhaps a new thread should be started or the title modified?

There is not one reason for 1080p as NO programming exits at 1080p other than a few WM9 demo disks from Microsoft.

Not only is there nothing that can carry 1080p, there are no production systems (switchers, etc.) that can be used to produce 1080p programming. And, why would networs making no money on 1080i upgrade to 1080p? Why would DBS akready squeezing 1080i in an efffort to get more HD local channels, go 1080p. There is no business model to justify it.

Thus no HD disk, cable TV, DBS, or broadcast station will have 1080p.

Since there is no 1080p programming Input -- there is no need for 1080p Output.

Most video circuits driving display elements cannot pass a true 1080i bandwidth. No matter what the marketing BS -- the lack of source material and devices plus the very high cost of 1080p circuitry, will mean you'll never see 1080p no matter what the display runs at.

Not sure what you're trying to say, but when you purchase an PS3 with a 1080p output, you'll want a 1080p set. 1080p will be available in the future, maybe in limited sources for the time being. It is part of the HD standard that few displays can produce today.

I work on my computer on a 1920x1200 lcd panel. I just wish I could buy the same damn thing for my TV that can accept 1080p via DVI/HDMI.

But when you purchase an PS3 with a 1080p output, you'll want a 1080p set. 1080p will be available in the future, maybe in limited sources for the time being. It is part of the HD standard that few displays can produce today.

I work on my computer on a 1920x1200 lcd panel. I just wish I could buy the same damn thing for my TV that can accept 1080p via DVI/HDMI.

Note I said "programming" not some kid's game box. It's absurd, IMHO, for adults to be playing video games and a 1080p HDTV is simply too much for a kid's birthday present. :) So I'll never buy or play a video game. Although in 1973 I did play the original luner lander and Pong on a PDP-1. That was enough boredom for me.

1080p will not be part of any future in which the HDTV you buy today will still be running. It is not a legal broadcast standard. It can't be broadcast! It can't be recorded to any planned DVD system. Which means there will be no drive to build and sell production equipment to TV stations or post houses. So one won't be able to create 1080p programming.

There is no advantage to converting film to 1080p when the ATSC standard allows 1080p24 to be broadcast. What you want, is a 1080p72 display -- which is not what is being offered by the 1080p displays. That would be worth something because there is a real source.

Yes, it would be nice to have a really big computer monitor. But you can't really expect Sony to add the expnse it would require to enable a TV to do this when it's not going to be a common use.

If "convergence" is to occur -- which I don't think it will -- it will require VERY HI REZ display. But I don't see how one living room 1080p monitor can display, at the same time, a 1920x1080 computer display side-by-side with a 1920x1080 HDTV program.

If I can't watch HDTV and work on my computer, I need two displays. Thus the TV doesn't need to be 1080p because other than games there is no source.

here, here! I am so glad to hear all the talk about big screens nowadays! I have a 65" and could not imagine going an inch less, and am looking forward to 70 or greater.

I just started reading this thread. I avoided it because of the title only referring to 50 and 60 inchers. So perhaps a new thread should be started or the title modified?

Until there is new 70" the only thing one can do is arrange your viewing room so the distance to the screen is short enough to at least meet the SMPTE specs with a 60".

The problem is the 60A20 looks to be less capable than the A10 series. So I've either got to buy last year's 955 model (BUTT UGLY) or wait for a high-priced future Sony XBR model.

Sony has really setup a situation that favors small HDTVs. There is no reason the A10 could not have been delivered in a 60" - 70" model -- although the rez would have been "only" 1280x720. But, I'd rather have the iris and 720p because most Front Projectors are 720p and they look great at blown to 12 feet! One does not need a 1366-pixel line to get HD. Anyway, most video circuits don't pass anything near 1920x1080. One is lucky to get a real 1280x720 signal to the display. The PIXEL WAR -- like 10880p -- is pure hype.

Perhaps it's time for someone to talk about Sony alternatives because they have really screwed those who want 60-70" RPTVs.

That's because far too many folks -- even at AVS -- do not understand that the reason for HD is to provide the pixels needed to meet either SMPTE, or better yet, THX screen-size specifications.

HD is not to replace your TV -- even your big old RPTV. It's to provide a theater viewing experience! And, you don't need a "home theater" to have this. A blank wall, a projector that presents a 72" image, and a couch 9 feet from the screen will give you that viewing experience. Anything less, and no matter how much you spend -- you are still just watching last century TV.

We need to educate folks that size is critical -- and that HD technology decisions are relevant in terms of their ability to deliver image size. For this reason, both LCD and plasma can't be used because -- in most American living rooms -- they can't meet SMPTE/THX specs. Only FPTV or RPTV can do this.

Even those, like me, who live in a tiny NYC coop, need a 60-70 inch screen. Looking at the living/family rooms of those in suburbia -- 70-inches will be too small unless you arrange the viewing area to keep folks no more than 10 feet from the screen.

As I read the posts from those talking about buying a 42- or 55-inch HDTV, I keep wondering if they have ever seen a movie in a real theater or visited a friend with a projector.

Looking at the Sony RPTVs coming this year -- there is only one valid reason not to go with the biggest Sony makes -- price. Sony is solving the width factor.

I will admit that turned-off these will FEEL big -- likely TOO BIG. But, once turned-on, you will only notice a wild viewing experience. You'll never go back.

Lastly, your SD DVDs may look less good so big. But in 3 years, when you have your HD DVD, you'll toss your DVDs because they'll look as bad as your VHS movie collection. (That's why it makes no sense to buy NTSC DVDs.)

Likewise, don't buy a DV camcorder. Go with Sony's new $2000 HDV camcorder.

And pray, channels like TCM, AMC, IFC, Sundance, Starz, etc. move their film libraries to HD and go HD because, by then, most everything else including the news will be HD. Thus, the SD factor will be much less of a factor in big screen HDTVs.


While I wholeheartedly agree with your argument, the market reality is different. For most folks (even with a house) a 70" RPTV is too big, and most folks out there would not have a faintest idea how to fire up a projector every time they want to watch some TV or a movie. They need an RPTV box or a flat panel. We're geeks here, let's face it.

Speaking of geeks, rumor is that new Sony SXRD RPTVs will have an improved contrast ratio - 5,000:1.

Nice.

SORRY!, I believe :o this was asked/mentioned already, BUT it did NOT come back in the forums search results. Will the SXRD have the 'Twin-View'/"Picture-BY-Picture (Side-by-Side)" feature? If my memory serves me right, I think someone said the Qualia has the Twin-View Feature?

Many Thanks! - Matthew.

While I wholeheartedly agree with your argument, the market reality is different. For most folks (even with a house) a 70" RPTV is too big, and most folks out there would not have a faintest idea how to fire up a projector every time they want to watch some TV or a movie. They need an RPTV box or a flat panel. We're geeks here, let's face it.

Speaking of geeks, rumor is that new Sony SXRD RPTVs will have an improved contrast ratio - 5,000:1.

Nice.

This is much more realistic version of reality than the "everybody needs a 70 inch" camp. Lets face it, even on these forums the vast majority of people don't go for 70 inch tvs. The reason is that, while I may want a real theater setup complete with dual sony G90s, stadium seating, $25,000 worth of scaling equipment, and $25,000 worth of audio equipment, the fact is life is about compromise. Not just compromise on cost, but also on room decor, WAF, etc... Plus not everything I watch is movies, I enjoy maybe a couple of movies a week, the rest of what I watch is standard television programming like news and sitcoms. I don't care how high resolution and clear it is; I have no desire to see most of that programming anywhere near that size. Therefore it's also a trade off between having a movie experience for movies, and not have to move my head back and forth to see the entire head of the local news anchor because it's displayed at six feet across. Maybe I'm just jealous because I wish I could have a large FP setup to go with a smaller RPTV for television viewing, but there is no way I could manage that in my current house.

As for the gaming is for kids argument, that is just ridiculous. I would think that someone that is so into pop culture tv and movies which many people (not me) think is a completely brain dead waste of time, would be a little less critical of other peoples interests, and entertain the idea that perhaps, just because they don't enjoy something, doesn't mean that it's total waste and should not be pursued by anybody.

While I wholeheartedly agree with your argument, the market reality is different. For most folks (even with a house) a 70" RPTV is too big, and most folks out there would not have a faintest idea how to fire up a projector every time they want to watch some TV or a movie. They need an RPTV box or a flat panel. We're geeks here, let's face it.

Speaking of geeks, rumor is that new Sony SXRD RPTVs will have an improved contrast ratio - 5,000:1.

Nice.My wife is nudging me to get off the stick and get something. She recently went so far as to throw out the idea of removing the ceiling fan and putting in a drop down projector and drop down screen. That's one heck of a tempting idea but a RPTV fits the general purpose uses this set in going to provide for the whole family.

"Lets face it, even on these forums the vast majority of people don't go for 70 inch tvs. "

Exactly. And for me it has nothing to do with cost. It would never fit in my TV room, no matter how big that TV room. It would always dominate the room and be ugly when not in use.

To me, even a 70-inch flat panel is questionable. We are looking at getting a 65-incher, actually, and seeing if we can't build a way to hide it when not in use.

...

Exactly. And for me it has nothing to do with cost. It would never fit in my TV room, no matter how big that TV room. It would always dominate the room and be ugly when not in use.

To me, even a 70-inch flat panel is questionable. We are looking at getting a 65-incher, actually, and seeing if we can't build a way to hide it when not in use.

I guess to each his own but I rather like my 70" when it is off as well. As an added bonus, my 6yr old daughter uses it as a mirror to dance in front of and practice her routines when it is off :)


FYI, the latest issue of The Perfect Vision talks briefly about Sony's plans for these sets...

I agree with the previous posts. The one-size-fits-all mentality makes no sense. First of all, HD is not intended to provide a theater-like experience. HD was developed by the Japanese so they could view TV that looked watchable from a few feet away in those tiny little Tokyo apartments of theirs.

But the idea that everyone wants a theater with the biggest screen possible in their own home is ridiculous. Most people DON'T want that; they want bigger, better-looking TVs, but not TVs that dominate an entire room and ruin their decor. I've heard plenty of "normal" people (i.e. people who don't come to forums like these) complain that newer theater screens are TOO big. I can't always disagree... watching really fast motion scenes on a 100' movie screen can be painful sometimes with all the motion blur. These people certainly don't want a TV that creates the same relative viewing size from 10' away in their home, and which eliminates any other uses for that room at the same time. Everyone has different priorities when it comes to selecting a television, and for the average buyer a full-on theater experience is not the most important priority, if it's even a priority at all. If someone's needs or priorities are different than yours, that doesn't make them less valid.

Myself, I'd love to have a 70" if I had the room for it. I could probably fit a 70" in my room, but it would block my windows, and frankly, I'd like to still be able to look out my windows.

[QUOTE=rogo We are looking at getting a 65-incher, actually, and seeing if we can't build a way to hide it when not in use.[/QUOTE]

A continuous loop DVD of a salt water aquarium ? :D

A continuous loop DVD of a salt water aquarium ? :D
Only if you want to be replacing your lamp twice a year.

First of all, the guy who said games are for kids is likely a dinosaur. 90% of Dads under 35 grew up playing video games, and for many of these guys playing an occasional game, likely with their son(s), is absolutely on the agenda.

But back to the new SXRD's - I think 60" is as big as I need to go. If it was a separate theater room I suppose 70 or 80 or 100 for that matter would be great, but for the family room, 60 is about as big as I need it.

To you guys who know more than me (everybody here qualifies, btw): I explained my upcoming TV choices to my 7 year old boy as basically (~5k budget):

We can get a 60" fat tv (I'm thinking of the SXRD at 60"), or a 50" thin tv (a name brand plasma).

Is that basically the difference?

From what I can tell here the 60" SXRD will likely be a better picture than a 50" plasma, but there will also be a bulb replacement and calibration service in my future.

Do I have the pros and cons pretty well covered, from an average joe perspective, when it comes to deciding between a RPTV and a flat panel?

Janibrewski

Plasmas also have to be calibrated.

I wish Sony would just announce a date when these sets are going to ship other than Fall. I'm getting impatient now that some of the 1080p DLP's are coming out but I really want to see these SXRD sets. If these sets are anything like the Qualia 006 I saw at the Sony store in Las Vegas then I'm sold.

Come on Sony, announce something already!

FYI, the latest issue of The Perfect Vision talks briefly about Sony's plans for these sets...

Ben,

Have you seen this issue [downloaded it or what not]? I was wondering what the article mentions. Availibility date (a specific month)? :D

Thanks - Matthew.

Maybe I'm just jealous because I wish I could have a large FP setup to go with a smaller RPTV for television viewing, but there is no way I could manage that in my current house.
This is exactly what we currently have in our living room...a Sony HS10 for HD and DVDs and an old POS tube tv for just about everything else. BTW, the wife loves the idea of a new big TV and is looking forward to replacing our aging dinosaur of a TV with something "at least 60" in size. Our dilemma is that our PJ is unwatchable during the day as our living room has a wall of windows that face west, so daylight streams in until 9 or 9:30 during the summer. While I'd love to put some type of window treatments (read blackout) on the windows, that's where the WAF draws the line. She'd rather shell out $4-6K and have an awesome looking TV and do something minimal with the windows than cover them up entirely. Fortunate for me, I feel the same way. FWIW, we've got plenty of friends who have newer homes and they all have some sort of "great room" that would look silly with something less than 60". And with as slim at these sets are, I personally don't think they're an eyesore when they're not on.

Just my dos pesetas...

Jason

Ben,

Have you seen this issue [downloaded it or what not]? I was wondering what the article mentions. Availibility date (a specific month)? :D

Thanks - Matthew.

I just picked up the issue during lunch and had not yet read it; still haven't read it but will excerpt the relevant portion (the article was reporting what Sony had recently revealed about its 2005 lineup to its dealers and the press):

"A Sony product specialist indicated to me that the company intends to offer new 50" and 60" rear projectors utilizing 1920x1080p, three-chip SXRD (Silicon X-tal Reflective Display -- Sony's brand of LCoS) technology later this year. The new sets will use a 0.61" chip instead of the 0.78" device found in the current 70" Qualia."

Quickly, the article also details that "[t]he current (2004) 60" XBR Grand Wega LCD rear projector has been discontinued, but the 70" model remains in the line, unchanged."

...HD was developed by the Japanese so they could view TV that looked watchable from a few feet away in those tiny little Tokyo apartments of theirs.That is absolutely correct. The impetus for HDTV here in the U.S. came in the 80s when many thought that the Japanese style of management was destined to triumph in the global economy. (Instead, they've been in a recession for the past 15 years and China is the one on a roll!) To trump Japan's analog HD developments, we came up with digital HD. An additional rationale for the transition to all-digital broadcasting was the desire to reclaim valuable UHF frequencies for our burgeoning wireless industry, because with digital you could pack the stations closer together on the spectrum. Today, the transition is driven by the expected billions of dollars in federal auction revenues that will be generated once this spectrum is sold. By earmarking some of the reclaimed spectrum for critical communications needs (police, fire, EMS, etc.), Congress has a figleaf for voter discontent when analog airwaves go dark sometime in 2009. This will occur under pending legislation sponsored by Sen. John McCain and others, which seems likely to be enacted later this year. To my knowledge, 70" TV screens had nothing to do with it. :)

Ben,

THANKS! :) for taking the time to post some quotes from the article.

JimP - thanks. Another reason to go with the SXRD. God I hope they are not ugly.

What does WAF stand for?

JimP - thanks. Another reason to go with the SXRD. God I hope they are not ugly.

What does WAF stand for?


Wife Acceptance Factor


or some might say the A is Approval...

This is exactly what we currently have in our living room...a Sony HS10 for HD and DVDs and an old POS tube tv for just about everything else. BTW, the wife loves the idea of a new big TV and is looking forward to replacing our aging dinosaur of a TV with something "at least 60" in size. Our dilemma is that our PJ is unwatchable during the day as our living room has a wall of windows that face west, so daylight streams in until 9 or 9:30 during the summer. While I'd love to put some type of window treatments (read blackout) on the windows, that's where the WAF draws the line. She'd rather shell out $4-6K and have an awesome looking TV and do something minimal with the windows than cover them up entirely. Fortunate for me, I feel the same way. FWIW, we've got plenty of friends who have newer homes and they all have some sort of "great room" that would look silly with something less than 60". And with as slim at these sets are, I personally don't think they're an eyesore when they're not on.

Just my dos pesetas...

Jason

Man, one of these days I want a setup like that. I'd love to have a basement or bonus room to turn into a relatively dedicated theater for movie watching. Unfortunately, I live in the SF Bay Area and the better part of a million dollars only gets me 1620 sqft. I have one main living area and it has vaulted ceilings (no drop down screen) and no wallspace big enough for a tv larger than 50-55". Even that will have to overlap with the fireplace very slightly and stick 4" or 5" out of a media niche which is only 40" wide. I love my house, but it's certainly not designed with home theater in mind. I have been over this a ton of times and I just can't figure out anything better to do. You should see my speaker placement. :) Well, thanks for giving me an excuse to whine about housing prices in California yet again.

Only if you want to be replacing your lamp twice a year.

Not on a plasma or LCD, tho.

However, I believe in energy conservation and wouldn't run my TV all day.

I have an idea involving two sliding panels that I'm trying to get someone to help me design.

...

I have an idea involving two sliding panels that I'm trying to get someone to help me design.


I've seen a piece where the panel(s) slide from the bottom(top) out of the way when viewing and then back into position, covering the TV, when not in use.

Can't recall offhand where I saw that piece of furniture.

This is exactly what we currently have in our living room...a Sony HS10 for HD and DVDs and an old POS tube tv for just about everything else. She'd rather shell out $4-6K and have an awesome looking TV and do something minimal with the windows than cover them up entirely. Fortunate for me, I feel the same way. FWIW, we've got plenty of friends who have newer homes and they all have some sort of "great room" that would look silly with something less than 60". And with as slim at these sets are, I personally don't think they're an eyesore when they're not on. Jason

Exactly what I have in a tiny NYC coop. A 27" LCD Syntax for "TV" and a projector for "movies." But it's time for a new projector which will cost about what a 60" RPTV costs. IF -- I could find a 60" projector that had the A10 features! :(

Yes -- a quick pan can introduce vertigo! That's called the Theater Experience! Saying you don't want such an experience is like saying sounds from your rear channels sometimes cause you to "startle." The startle of 5.1 is part of the Theater Experience. Maybe these folks should simply buy a B&W TV. :)

So now we have folks wanting to buy an HDTV -- but really wanting it to be just a "TV." I guess in a world that listens to MP3 for music through earphones -- the idea of a Concert Hall experience is just something those of us over 60 remember.

Also, when you watch all that 4:3 programming:

1) Much of it is letterboxed so it is very useable on a 16:9 TV.

2) When it's pillar boxed it becomes quite small -- not much bigger than a 36" TV. So it will not be overwhelming to watch CNBC!

Thankfully, in my new house I can vary the viewing distance from 7 to 9 feeet so I can live with a 60" But I know it will never look like 7 feet projected on a wall. But it will be simpler to control since I will not have to switch between TV and Projector.

To my knowledge, 70" TV screens had nothing to do with it. :)

But we didn't get HD up and running -- Japan did. And, in their small apartments a 42-55" flat-screen DOES met SMPTE specs. It is a Theater Experience -- at 3 feet!

Screen-size falls out from the need for a certain viewing angle and then from the size of your room. In the USA, even in a tiny Apt., 70" is the minimum size. In the 3000 to 4000 sqft house common today -- screen size really need to be 120-inches or bigger because of the huge Great Rooms they offer.

Unfortunately, I live in the SF Bay Area and the better part of a million dollars only gets me 1620 sqft.
That's probably the only unfortunate part about that area, but here in the Midwest the dollar tends to go a bit further...we snagged about triple that space for about half that cost. :) Now to just get a big frickin' TV to fill the space...and some more furniture, too! :D

Also, the Perfect Vision's article on Sony misrepresents the A20 line by indicating that it has the dynamic iris feature. Oops..

Jason

Regarding the size issues and fitting the decorum and size of the house, obviously this is something that has to be taken into account. I don't think anyone is questioning that.

But the point is that if you DO have the room for it, and the tv will fit in without completely overwhelming the room, bigger is definitely better for anyone who will be sitting 8 feet or more from the TV.

I am lucky, our house has a huge built in media niche that is also raised. A 70 inch Sony Qualia would fit snugly and look fantastic.

If it had to sit in the middle of the room, I might feel differently about going that large.

The photo I saw of the 50" model made it appear that the side speakers are not detachable and I've since received confirmation from Sony: speakers are non-detachable. The finish is a silver color with a black bezel. For those of you already taking measurements for a cabinet or stand, here are the (unofficial) dimensions:

50" - 57-1/4"W x 34"H x 18-1/4"D
60" - 66"W x 39-3/4"H x 20-1/4"D

No word yet on 1080p inputs.

Steve

The photo I saw of the 50" model made it appear that the side speakers are not detachable and I've since received confirmation from Sony: speakers are non-detachable. The finish is a silver color with a black bezel. For those of you already taking measurements for a cabinet or stand, here are the (unofficial) dimensions:

50" - 57-1/4"W x 34"H x 18-1/4"D
60" - 66"W x 39-3/4"H x 20-1/4"D

No word yet on 1080p inputs.

Steve

Great info. Thanks.

CINERAMAX hints on 5,000:1 contrast ratio in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=560251


Can you confirm that?

Didn't see anyone else post this yet, but if you check Sonystyle and hit the TV section, they have all the new stuff on there right now! And there is a 70" XBR coming.

I'm working the wife over as I type this to get her ready for the 60" as soon as it's available. Can't wait to watch some Football on this baby.

Didn't see anyone else post this yet, but if you check Sonystyle and hit the TV section, they have all the new stuff on there right now! And there is a 70" XBR coming.

I'm working the wife over as I type this to get her ready for the 60" as soon as it's available. Can't wait to watch some Football on this baby.

Go Steelers! I don't see any info on Sonystyle regarding new SXRDs, 50, 60,
or 70in. Can you post the link?

The photo I saw of the 50" model made it appear that the side speakers are not detachable and I've since received confirmation from Sony: speakers are non-detachable. The finish is a silver color with a black bezel. For those of you already taking measurements for a cabinet or stand, here are the (unofficial) dimensions:

50" - 57-1/4"W x 34"H x 18-1/4"D
60" - 66"W x 39-3/4"H x 20-1/4"D

No word yet on 1080p inputs.

Steve

Well, no need for me to wait on the Sony SXRD... I have a width limitation due to a custom wall unit that currenty houses my Pioneer 533 RPTV... I want to stay the same size or increase in size... not go down because some stupid electronics engineer decided to jack up the width of a RPTV cabinet with useless speakers. Dont these jackasses realize that if folks are spending this kind of money there is a 98% chance that they also have a hometheater speaker system? :mad:

Dude, either you're on drugs or you've been drinking too much Iron City out of the can. The 70" XBR has been out for 2 1/2 years. The A20s and the A10s are posted at the SonyStyle site, but there isn't jackshit about the new SXRDs.

Jason

ps- GO STEELERS!!!:D:D:D


The last time I had an Iron City beer Terry Bradshaw was Quarterback and
the Steelers were wining SuperBowls...

Thanks for clearing up the SXRDs on SonyStyle announcement :-)

Does the Qualia have the Iris? Id be pretty mad if i just spent 13K and already newer sxrds will have better contrast 5000/1 for half the price..

The photo I saw of the 50" model made it appear that the side speakers are not detachable and I've since received confirmation from Sony: speakers are non-detachable. The finish is a silver color with a black bezel. For those of you already taking measurements for a cabinet or stand, here are the (unofficial) dimensions:

50" - 57-1/4"W x 34"H x 18-1/4"D
60" - 66"W x 39-3/4"H x 20-1/4"D

No word yet on 1080p inputs.

Steve
I can't begin to express how disappointing that is. That means that I'd have to drop down to the 50" to fit in my space, and no way I'm going to do that. All because of side speakers that I wouldn't use anyway. What is Sony thinking? For most people, if they have a space constraint, it's going to be width, because HDTV's are wider than older TV's to begin with. Then they put on side speakers that add another 10" to the width on top of that. Too bad, I thought this was going to be the TV for me, especially when I aw that they eliminated the side speakers on the new LCD units. I guess I'll have to pin my hopes on the new JVC's.

The photo I saw of the 50" model made it appear that the side speakers are not detachable and I've since received confirmation from Sony: speakers are non-detachable. The finish is a silver color with a black bezel. For those of you already taking measurements for a cabinet or stand, here are the (unofficial) dimensions:

50" - 57-1/4"W x 34"H x 18-1/4"D
60" - 66"W x 39-3/4"H x 20-1/4"D

No word yet on 1080p inputs.

Steve


Steve, thanks for all the info and keep the news coming :)

It would truly blow if the new SXRDs had the side speaker wings that the XS series does. That's really the main reason that I steered clear of the 60XS...that, and hopes of something better around the corner! :D Hopefully they're detachable like the Qualia speakers.

Jason

The photo I saw of the 50" model made it appear that the side speakers are not detachable and I've since received confirmation from Sony: speakers are non-detachable. The finish is a silver color with a black bezel. For those of you already taking measurements for a cabinet or stand, here are the (unofficial) dimensions:

50" - 57-1/4"W x 34"H x 18-1/4"D
60" - 66"W x 39-3/4"H x 20-1/4"D

No word yet on 1080p inputs.

Steve

I know I'm the third person to say this, and I'm sure I won't be the last, but non-detachable side-speakers?!


Like the last two guys said, anyone buying a set this side is going to have a surround system to match.


I have been following this thread daily in hopes of getting the 60" SXRD the day it comes out, but now that it won't fit, it's back to the drawing board.

I like Side speakers...Enhances the widescreen Look....I use to hate the Boxy look of the mits62725 i had...

The photo I saw of the 50" model made it appear that the side speakers are not detachable and I've since received confirmation from Sony: speakers are non-detachable. The finish is a silver color with a black bezel. For those of you already taking measurements for a cabinet or stand, here are the (unofficial) dimensions:

50" - 57-1/4"W x 34"H x 18-1/4"D
60" - 66"W x 39-3/4"H x 20-1/4"D

No word yet on 1080p inputs.

Steve


Samsung and everyone else can put out attractive 50" TV's that have a 46"-48" width, but the brains at Sony like to add damn near a foot of plastic wings to their sets, as if they were hanggliders.

I hope Sony frequents these boards and realizes they have yet to figure it out. They will still probably sell a ton, but man, talk about getting kicked in the nuts.

57" wide for a 50" set.....pure genious :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Its called superior design....If you want a box thats cool too...

I know I'm the third person to say this, and I'm sure I won't be the last, but non-detachable side-speakers?!


Like the last two guys said, anyone buying a set this side is going to have a surround system to match.


I have been following this thread daily in hopes of getting the 60" SXRD the day it comes out, but now that it won't fit, it's back to the drawing board.



Makes you think what Sony pays its engineers/designers for, if they cant figure out something as simple as most people buying this class of TV are not going to want attached speakers!!!!

Also, whats with the silver? It was cool when the first Wegas came out, but now it is just plain getting old -- I want my all black back! Silver just looks cheap now, especially with all the koreans/chinese making silver electronics now. You know Sony USED to make beautiful stuff -- Hire some new designers or steal some from your Plasma line! End of rant.

Its called superior design....If you want a box thats cool too...

You are in the minority my friend, don't know many that want to waste that much space on plastic speaker wings...

I thought Sony got the hint with the new 3LCD sets, but I guess not....

Those given dimensions above match the current 60" XS cabinet....joy :mad: :mad:

I can only hope that this early information is wrong. I'm not a big fan of DLP, and the only competing LCOS technology is from JVC. They aren't exactly known for their product quality. To put fuel on the fire, I was just looking at a brochure for the new Mits 1080p sets, and their 62" model is only 58" wide. And SlikVik, they come in all black.

Here's a copy of the Mits brochure for anyone curious.
http://www.gwinnetttv.com/video/tvs/bigscreen_tvs/mitsubishi/MITSUBISHI_DLP/WD52_62_628_PDF.pdf

PS - I'm not not trying to convert anyone into becoming Mits supporters here. Mits is about 3rd on my list of prospects, and as I stated before, I'm not a fan of DLP. But to be honest, if the Sony's are as wide as rumored, I might just have to consider the Mits because it would allow me to fit a 62" set in the spot only a 50" Sony will fit.


Can I get an Amen brothers?!

I also like the side speakers. Wide screen is cool and I think the side speakers enhances that widescreen look. However I think they should make them detachable them who ever doesn't like them can remove them.

I too would also like to see something larger than 60", they should have some sort of growth option for people who want to upgrade to something larger than 55 or 60"

A 60" widescreen is definitely alot smaller than an older 60" 4/3 set. As far as WAF, these new sets are definitely more stylish than the old, deep black boxes of days past.

A 65" ot 70" would not cost them much more, the electronics should be the same just a bigger screen, bigger case and a little more for shipping. Price these sets a few hundred dollars more for the extra materials & shipping cost and let let the consumer decide how big is too big. If the price is close I'm sure they would sell a lot of 65-70 inchers.

Bad move on the non-removable side speakers.

The 60 inch Sony will be 7 or 8 inches wider than the comparable Samsung because of this.

EDIT* actually, it will be 9 inches wider than the 61 inch Samsung.

Steve,

Any idea whether twin view got chopped off the SXRD like the A10 & A20s? That would be the killer for me!

To put fuel on the fire, I was just looking at a brochure for the new Mits 1080p sets, and their 62" model is only 58" wide.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I think this horse deserves to be beaten. The Samsung HLR6168W is only 56.9" wide, narrower than Sony's 50". That is rediculous. I've already complained about the width available to me, and this may take the Sony out of the running. Even if I decide I can deal with that width, it will be a choice between a 61" or a 50" in the same width. What are they thinking. It's going to have to be a damn good tv.

Ya know what...if the undetachable side speakers (kill me now) are the only drawback on these new SXRD sets, and if they truly kick major ass like they seem like they probably will, then I will figure out a way to chop off the speakers and trim the whole set out in solid cherry if I have to...what are those folks thinking??? The XS, while a pretty nice set, in my opinion, is disastrous and out of the question because of those speakers. It's not even an issue of "Oh, I won't use those speakers because I shelled out 20K on the rest of my system," it's " what Sony engineer came up with the brilliant idea of making their TV look like something out of Star Trek?"

How about a "clean, refined, neatly trimmed, functional, sleek, no-frills" set instead? I don't need all that crap on the front of my TV...just give me the goods.

Jason

If those width measurements are correct, I'm out too. I have a built in that supports a width up to 63", which is why I abandoned the Qualia 006 and it looks like these also.

I agree with those that adding unnecessary inches to the sides of these TVs really limits their sales ability. I noticed that the newest 60" models in the lower lines were 62" wide. Also, the current 60" XBR is 62.5". Why make them 66" wide is beyond me.

:mad: :mad: The photo I saw of the 50" model made it appear that the side speakers are not detachable and I've since received confirmation from Sony: speakers are non-detachable. The finish is a silver color with a black bezel. For those of you already taking measurements for a cabinet or stand, here are the (unofficial) dimensions:

50" - 57-1/4"W x 34"H x 18-1/4"D
60" - 66"W x 39-3/4"H x 20-1/4"D

No word yet on 1080p inputs.

Steve
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :mad: :mad: :mad:

Sony how could you screw up so many things --color --speaker placement--width

Hmm, 2.25" wider than the KF-60XBR800, that's surprising.

Double hmm,

The 60" is 5/8" wider than the 70" Qualia 006 without the side speakers.

Maybe we shouldn't get so worked up with prelim specs. Wouldn't be the first time they've been wrong.

Besides, we could always buy a ...........(fill in the blank) ;-)

Not to offend anyone just voicing what i've noticed in numerous posts in this thread, but WOW.... some of you whine and cry like there's no tommorow. Sony can't please EVERYONE. Imagine if they built these sets with NO speakers...I can only image what you guys would say then. First you want this, then that, next thing you know you want a TV designed exactly to your cabinet size, matching your entertainment center and even have your name written on it. Well then go design it yourself, and quit bitching. And just to peeve you crybabies off more I've seen pre-production models of the new SXRD sets and they are in identical cabinets to the current XS series with the humungous, gigantor, titanic winged speakers. Still not happy? Here's an idea, if you REALLY want it to fit in your cabinet, saw the speakers off, the TV will still work and you'll stop crying. Dont' laugh, it's been done before more than once.

Not to offend anyone just voicing what i've noticed in numerous posts in this thread, but WOW.... some of you whine and cry like there's no tommorow. Sony can't please EVERYONE. Imagine if they built these sets with NO speakers...I can only image what you guys would say then. First you want this, then that, next thing you know you want a TV designed exactly to your cabinet size, matching your entertainment center and even have your name written on it. Well then go design it yourself, and quit bitching. And just to peeve you crybabies off more I've seen pre-production models of the new SXRD sets and they are in identical cabinets to the current XS series with the humungous, gigantor, titanic winged speakers. Still not happy? Here's an idea, if you REALLY want it to fit in your cabinet, saw the speakers off, the TV will still work and you'll stop crying. Dont' laugh, it's been done before more than once.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

There is another side to this whole side speaker issue. If someone (me) is putting this in a room without a cabinet around it, I can purchase a taller stand/entertainment console to sit it on. This would allow for more components under the tv because it needed to be taller. My other tv options include the new Samsungs. I would need a lower unit to house the components in because the speakers are on the bottom, same with the A10 units.

I think a large tv like this should not be put in a unit that surrounds it. To me, it makes the screen look smaller. I think these tv's should be free-standing, and you can put entertainement racks near it or bookcases near it, but when you totally surround it closely with a big humongous wall unit, it just takes away from the tv in my humble opinion.

I like an entertainement rack next to the tv anyway, being free-standing it doesnt take away from the tv size, and i dont like the component units like dvd player, reciever, etc being under the tv on a low stand. For older people, or larger people, or people with leg or knee or back problems, its not practical to have your components down by the floor.

I think Sony did awesome with the styling on those side speakers, they make the whole tv look longer and wider, and gives it the impression of being even bigger than it is.

Not to offend anyone just voicing what i've noticed in numerous posts in this thread, but WOW.... some of you whine and cry like there's no tommorow. Sony can't please EVERYONE. Imagine if they built these sets with NO speakers...I can only image what you guys would say then. First you want this, then that, next thing you know you want a TV designed exactly to your cabinet size, matching your entertainment center and even have your name written on it. Well then go design it yourself, and quit bitching. And just to peeve you crybabies off more I've seen pre-production models of the new SXRD sets and they are in identical cabinets to the current XS series with the humungous, gigantor, titanic winged speakers. Still not happy? Here's an idea, if you REALLY want it to fit in your cabinet, saw the speakers off, the TV will still work and you'll stop crying. Dont' laugh, it's been done before more than once.
jcc, not to offend, but WOW....you whine and cry about other people's posts like there's no tomorrow. We can't please EVERYONE. Imagine if we posted about NOTHING...I can only image what you would say then. First you want this, then that, next thing you know you want every post to be exactly like your opinions. Well then go make all the posts yourself, and quit bitching. And just to peeve you crybaby off more I've seen some posts in other threads, and they were complaining about side speakers too. Still not happy? Here's an idea, if you REALLY want all the posts to match your opinion, put everyone on your ignore list, the forum will still work and you'll stop crying. Dont' laugh, it's been done before more than once.

jcc, not to offend, but WOW....
That was simply awesome...:D Nicely done!

Jason

BTW, I agree about not putting these sets in large wall units or entertainment cabinets. They should sit on a low, wide stand that houses the center channel speaker, your XBox & accessories, and maybe even various remote controls. Next to it should be the component "tower" for all of the electronics. Finally, I'm still trying to figure out what the hell I'm going to do with ~1000 CDs and DVDs and XBox games...:eek: Do I build a shallow bookshelf-esque wall unit or a low, wide, and deep cabinet with drawers? Do I want something that looks like a dresser in our living room? Decisions, decisions,...

I'm still irked by the possibility of side speakers, but don't confuse this with bitching or whining or crying...I'm still gonna get my SXRD! :D

Jason

jcc, not to offend, but WOW....you whine and cry about other people's posts like there's no tomorrow. We can't please EVERYONE. Imagine if we posted about NOTHING...I can only image what you would say then. First you want this, then that, next thing you know you want every post to be exactly like your opinions. Well then go make all the posts yourself, and quit bitching. And just to peeve you crybaby off more I've seen some posts in other threads, and they were complaining about side speakers too. Still not happy? Here's an idea, if you REALLY want all the posts to match your opinion, put everyone on your ignore list, the forum will still work and you'll stop crying. Dont' laugh, it's been done before more than once.

:D

Man, you folks are worse than the JVC threadians.

I WANT A PONY!!!


.

Not to offend anyone just voicing what i've noticed in numerous posts in this thread, but WOW.... some of you whine and cry like there's no tommorow. Sony can't please EVERYONE. Imagine if they built these sets with NO speakers...I can only image what you guys would say then. First you want this, then that, next thing you know you want a TV designed exactly to your cabinet size, matching your entertainment center and even have your name written on it. Well then go design it yourself, and quit bitching. And just to peeve you crybabies off more I've seen pre-production models of the new SXRD sets and they are in identical cabinets to the current XS series with the humungous, gigantor, titanic winged speakers. Still not happy? Here's an idea, if you REALLY want it to fit in your cabinet, saw the speakers off, the TV will still work and you'll stop crying. Dont' laugh, it's been done before more than once.
I agree. I was going to say: "Non-removable means nothing - ever heard of a Sawzall or a Dremel tool?" But you basically said it for me. :D If you really want to put a 60" widescreen in a custom cabinet built for something smaller, face it, you may have to customize your TV too. :rolleyes: No, I wouldn't saw my TV, but I also wouldn't buy a restrictive enclosed cabinet.

I agree. I was going to say: "Non-removable means nothing - ever heard of a Sawzall or a Dremel tool?" But you basically said it for me. :D If you really want to put a 60" widescreen in a custom cabinet built for something smaller, face it, you may have to customize your TV too. :rolleyes: No, I wouldn't saw my TV, but I also wouldn't buy a restrictive enclosed cabinet.

Not everyone is talking about a "enclosed cabinet". Some people are also restricted by the size of the built in media niche of the house.

Finally, I'm still trying to figure out what the hell I'm going to do with ~1000 CDs and DVDs and XBox games...:eek: Do I build a shallow bookshelf-esque wall unit or a low, wide, and deep cabinet with drawers? Do I want something that looks like a dresser in our living room? Decisions, decisions,...

Jason

Thats a great question, a problem for all of us. I keep my cd's in another room as I only play them in my car, but just having over 250 dvd's is becoming a problem. I have two tall thin racks, one revolves, but both are about full. As I get more dvd's, I dont know what to do either. What about a dvd jukebox type player. Does anyone have one? I know they are expensive, but I think there are a couple on the market that hold about 400 or so dvd's in them, they are just a big dvd player. I dont know the quality, but I think Sony makes one. However, I know they are very expensive, and then what happens when you get more dvd's than the unit holds? I guess you gotta go with some kind of furniture.

Thats a great question, a problem for all of us. I keep my cd's in another room as I only play them in my car, but just having over 250 dvd's is becoming a problem. I have two tall thin racks, one revolves, but both are about full. As I get more dvd's, I dont know what to do either. What about a dvd jukebox type player. Does anyone have one? I know they are expensive, but I think there are a couple on the market that hold about 400 or so dvd's in them, they are just a big dvd player. I dont know the quality, but I think Sony makes one. However, I know they are very expensive, and then what happens when you get more dvd's than the unit holds? I guess you gotta go with some kind of furniture.

The answer for your problem is to connect a Media Center Edition Computer system to your home theater and put all cds on a couple of 500GB hard drives. You can be online or play cds or stream movies to other rooms ---the possibilities are endless. Once set up its awesome and the new HTPCs look like another receiver or piece of av gear :)

Roy

the sony dvp-cx995v 400 disc changer should be arriving any time now, $300, I believe. It's supposed to have a better interface than the ones on the older Sony dvd changers. Also has HDMI upconversion to 720p/1080i