ooh I like that! Thanks :D

I'm going with the Bello AVS-2663. It can accommodate a center speaker up to 8" high, and the upper shelf is nicely elevated off the ground. Here's a picture of it:

In a year or two from now you probably won't want an SXRD. There's ALWAYS something newer and better around the corner. You can wait for the "next big thing" but that's what you'll always be doing: waiting.

Very true ... but when I am putting out almost CA$6000 for a television that must last 5-10 years I proceed with caution. I am not afraid to plunge in ... I recently spent a bundle on a new Naim DVD player even though I knew Blu-ray is coming.

Who knows, once I have actually seen an SXRD for myself and put it through its paces with HDTV and SD DVD I may find it irresisible despite its shortcomings! By the way the November AV Guide came out this morning which included their best of CEDIA report. They were very impressed with both the 50" and 60" SXRD sets saying that they had the least artifacts than the competition.

Excuse my ignorance, but what is "SED".

ooh I like that! Thanks :D hmm thats actually pretty expensive (Bello AVS-2663) .. any other suggestions <= $450-500

hmm thats actually pretty expensive (Bello AVS-2663) .. any other suggestions <= $450-500

search froogle with the model number, you might find what you're looking for

Hi Def bob what part of canada are you from. if you are in the toronto area I can get you a really good deal.

thIs also goes for anyone in toronto or greater toronto area. msg me and I can get you a deal through a sony dealer.

The layman's explanation of SED is that it is based on the same principles as a CRT TV except thinner. You get all the benefits of CRT picture quality in a form factor similar to a slim rear projection display. I don't believe these are "flat screens" like plasma or LCDs, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

As I understand it, these will start coming out some time next year, however the initial pricing will be higher than plasma displays. It's going to be tough to beat these SXRDs in terms of the size and picture quality for the money especially after the price falls a bit in a few months. I just moved and I don't own a TV so I need a TV now and not a year or two from now. Normally I'm one to sit on the sidelines and wait, but I think for the money, there's not much that's going to come out in the next couple of years with a similar size and quality in this price range (other than plasmas continuing to plummet to compete with all the new technologies) for a while.

50" or 60"? I would NOT be surprised if it were the 50" model, but would be surprised if it were the 60" model.

-Arv

I guess you must have missed my review of the 60" on display here in Toronto 2 weeks ago also.

The snow actually melts here just enough by the end of summer to allow a few dog sleds with supplies to make it thru. ;)

I'm not getting a reply on the do-it-yourself forum so I will ask here. I have a 60" sxrd ordered, what kind of power-strip surge-protecter should I get? On some of the above sites I see surge protectors of all different types and prices.
I use a Belkin Line Conditioner PF40 that works very well - a surge will do nothing to filter the line for HD. Some folks have purchased the PF60. Ecost had them for more than half off a few months back - a regular surge may protect spikes but will do nothing to condition, regulate or filter. :)

I guess you must have missed my review of the 60" on display here in Toronto 2 weeks ago also.

The snow actually melts here just enough by the end of summer to allow a few dog sleds with supplies to make it thru. ;)

Yep...sorry guess I missed your prior review.

Hope the dogs don't get too tired bringing you that 157 lb package to your home!

-Arv

So who thinks there will be a difference in quality between the Japanese built sets and the American assembled sets?

Let me just check something . . . . . wait . . . . . yep, it is indeed 2005; not 1969. Back in '69, one might be justified in being concerned if something was "made in japan," back when Japan was still gearing up, learning the ropes re industrial production.

As far as I can tell, "made in Japan" today, in 2005, usually means, "oh, good - this thing is probably built pretty damned well." Another example: 90% of your PC is "made in Taiwan," most likely, but most people aren't too worried about that.

Made in the US, today, means, well - probably just as good as "made in Japan."

Throw in the fact that, no matter where they ASSEMBLE the thing, most of the parts are from Japan and elsewhere, and I'm not sure the "made in ____" moniker has very much meaning any more.

So, do I think there is any difference in the Japanese-built v. US-built sets? No. None. If anything, perhaps a "made in Japan" set might be a little preferable, quality-wise. After all, it's a set created by a Japanese company, manufactured by a Japanese company, using mostly Japanese parts. Is it that far of a stretch to think that a Japanese company, using mostly Japanese parts, might do a pretty good job assembling a Japanese-created thing in . . . . Japan?

PS - I am heartened to see Sony nevertheless has some fabs here in the US. At least that helps the trade balance a little bit, even if the quality is no different.

What tv stand are you all getting for the 60"? I was planning on the GU12 or whatever the sony 60" stand is, but I took my center speaker to best buy last night and it wouldn't fit on the top shelf, and I don't want it practically on the floor...plus the stand itself was pretty low to the ground.

so what are you all planning?

I had a custom built entertainment center just for this TV. Here's a picture of it.

I'm not getting a reply on the do-it-yourself forum so I will ask here. I have a 60" sxrd ordered, what kind of power-strip surge-protecter should I get? On some of the above sites I see surge protectors of all different types and prices.

I am using one of the cheaper monster power surge protectors. They provide a $100,000 dollar protection warrenty on your equipment.

-Arv

hmm thats actually pretty expensive (Bello AVS-2663) .. any other suggestions <= $450-500



I own some pieces from here > http://www.jonalexander.com/index.html

This stuff is built rock solid and can really hold the weight. Great service.

Also, if something don't fit your needs they will make adjustments (custom build) for you.

You've gotta be kidding, right? I mean, you're not implying that somehow the Japanese all of a sudden got crappy in building consumer electronics, are you?

Let me just check something . . . . . yep, it is indeed 2005; not 1969. Back in '69, one might be justified in being concerned if something was "made in japan," back when Japan was still gearing up, learning the ropes re industrial production.

As far as I can tell, "made in Japan" today, in 2005, usually means, "oh, good - this thing is probably built pretty damned well." More examples: You're not too concerned, are you, that probably 90% of your PC is "made in Taiwan" are you?

Plus, these days, fabs are plopped down, practically fully automated, with extremely well-thought-out and tested quality control protocols, in whatever country is the cheapest, it seems. Intel has fabs in places you would never even visit. Major Taiwanese computer-part manufacturers are more and more setting up fabs in China, Indonesia, wherever; doesn't really matter. My 50A10, for instance, is made in Mexico. Again, whatever. It's made in a SONY fab, in Mexico, in what most likely is a state-of -the-art fab complex, AND with mostly "made in japan/taiwan" parts, unquestionably.

Really, best you could do with these TVs is "ASSEMBLED in America" if that somehow makes one feel better about their set.Actually I was thinking the $8/hr American temporary/seasonal workers Sony hired for this line might be a little low on the "learning curve" with the first few sets they get to assemble. The Japanese sets may have better QC.

I'm going with the Bello AVS-2663. It can accommodate a center speaker up to 8" high, and the upper shelf is nicely elevated off the ground. Here's a picture of it:

All of the stands I've found so far, including the Bello, are just too tall. By the time you add the stands height plus the SXRD base and lower frame, the screen is now sitting up to high for me.

From my measurements, the sony stand or other stands that are about 17" high (total) result in my focus being right in the center (up/down) of the SXRD's screen.

Jeff

I'm not getting a reply on the do-it-yourself forum so I will ask here. I have a 60" sxrd ordered, what kind of power-strip surge-protecter should I get? On some of the above sites I see surge protectors of all different types and prices.
I'm using one of these until I save some extra cash up for a higher-end power system.
PureAV™ HDTV Power Conditioner PFHD (http://catalog.belkin.com/PureAV_detail.process?Product_Id=187082#)

You can buy them at eCost at a substantial savings: -> Link <- (http://www.ecost.com/ecost/ecsplash/shop/detail~dpno~182156.asp)

Actually I was thinking the $8/hr American temporary/seasonal workers Sony hired for this line might be a little low on the "learning curve" with the first few sets they get to assemble. The Japanese sets may have better QC.

Ah, got it. Jumped the gun, there . . . . sorry about that - I see your point!

CC now has the 50" listed on their site...

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-50-HDTV-KDS-R50XBR1-/sem/rpsm/oid/133768/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Although they incorrectly list it as a LCD rear-projection HDTV. Weird they only have the 50" listed so far.

The 60 inch is still showing pre-orders only on Sony's site. Anyone else besides Sunshine actually shipping these things yet?

Hi Def bob what part of canada are you from. if you are in the toronto area I can get you a really good deal.

thIs also goes for anyone in toronto or greater toronto area. msg me and I can get you a deal through a sony dealer.

I am from Vancouver. Because of my extensive dealings with the HiFi Centre here in Vancouver, I get a good discount on everything I buy there. And they give excellent after sales service. They make free deliveries and assist in setting up equipment. All their salesmen are trained in audio/video and are very knowledgeable.

They specialize in many high end products. They are were the Canadian Dealer of the year in 2004 for B&W, Rotel, Classé, Musical Fidelity and Naim Audio. And Hitachi Western Canada Dealer of the year. And yes they are an authorized Sony dealer. I believe that they even out sold New York City on Classé products one year.

I have been very happy with my association with them over the years. Although price is important, after sales service and professional advice is just as important.

I'm not getting a reply on the do-it-yourself forum so I will ask here. I have a 60" sxrd ordered, what kind of power-strip surge-protecter should I get? On some of the above sites I see surge protectors of all different types and prices.

I would recommend the Richard Gray RGPC 400S. Not only will it protect your components from even those small power glitches that gradually eat away at your equipment, but may even make those blacks even blacker. It even improved the blacks on my KV36XBR400.

If the RGPC units are too expensive then I would recommend Panamax, which have a good reputation.

www.panamax.com

All of the stands I've found so far, including the Bello, are just too tall. By the time you add the stands height plus the SXRD base and lower frame, the screen is now sitting up to high for me.

From my measurements, the sony stand or other stands that are about 17" high (total) result in my focus being right in the center (up/down) of the SXRD's screen.

Jeff

Good point Jeff...my custom made one is about an inch or two off the recommended Sony stand.

-Arv

Wow, and all this time I've been using this $20 surge protector. As much as I'd like to indulge, I don't think my wife will go for the the big option.

$700 :eek:

I still need to identify a compatible med. price ($300) DVD player !!!

Anyone have the dimensions of the base of the 60"? It LOOKS like it should fit my current stand :D

I still need to identify a compatible med. price ($300) DVD player !!!

Take a look at this one ...

DVD-1920: DVD-A/SACD Progressive Scan Universal DVD Player... lists at US$379

I just this minute got a phone call from the Sony Store on Broadway in Vancouver, Canada. They just got BOTH the 50" and 60" SXRD's in ... they are still in the box! I will be making a trip down there on Saturday to do an evaluation!

I'm not getting a reply on the do-it-yourself forum so I will ask here. I have a 60" sxrd ordered, what kind of power-strip surge-protecter should I get? On some of the above sites I see surge protectors of all different types and prices.

Just as important as the power-strip/surge protector functionality is UPS (uninterruptable power supply). The bulbs cost $250. If the power goes out and the fan stops before it cools the bulb (a couple minutes) the bulb at best probably gets its life shortened and at worst goes on the spot.

Suggest buying an UPS which has the power strip/surge protector functionality included. If you do a serch on AVS for "UPS" you will find lots of linformation.

How is that any different than powering the TV off? Or does the TV fan stay on after you've turned off the set?

I still need to identify a compatible med. price ($300) DVD player !!!

Suggest you also look at the Sony DVP-NS90V. http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=DVPNS90V&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=hav_DVD_DVDPlayers

Its upscaling via HDMI and cost approx $200.

Just as important as the power-strip/surge protector functionality is UPS (uninterruptable power supply). The bulbs cost $250. If the power goes out and the fan stops before it cools the bulb (a couple minutes) the bulb at best probably gets its life shortened and at worst goes on the spot.

Suggest buying an UPS which has the power strip/surge protector functionality included. If you do a serch on AVS for "UPS" you will find lots of linformation.

I learned the hard way with my computer how important UPS is ... I lost a hard drive! APC makes some excellent units that are not overly expensive.

i had ask this already but
as it seams that some get their units i try again.

did the 60" unit handle 1080i 50 hz input?
the manual should tell us that.
if not.
it easy to find out when you have a dvd and playback a pal dvd at 50 hz
and let the dvd player upconvert this to 1080i 50 hz out.

i can send such pal dvd.

Anyone have the dimensions of the base of the 60"? It LOOKS like it should fit my current stand :D

I believe it is 36 1/4"

Here is an earlier post in this thread where someone asked the same question and how I came up with my answer...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6206360#post6206360

All of the stands I've found so far, including the Bello, are just too tall. By the time you add the stands height plus the SXRD base and lower frame, the screen is now sitting up to high for me.

From my measurements, the sony stand or other stands that are about 17" high (total) result in my focus being right in the center (up/down) of the SXRD's screen.

Jeff
Thats incorrect as I own that Bello Stand - I bought it for the Sammy 6768 and it is 63" Wide and while that SXRD is 66" that = 1.5" overhang of ears (negligible) - the actual foot sits well within the middle and the height is in fact made for a 60+" set the Sammy Stand for that TV is 19.5" mine is 20.5" (Vertical Differential is again negligible). Huge advantage is the middle shelf as it makes plenty of room for Center Channel as I have a Yamaha YSP-1 AVR 5.1 Sound Projector that sits directly under. Another advantage is that it's quality piece of furniture made in Italy and the top shelf holds over 150 lbs -(Sony 60" = 113 lbs).

Yes it costs more but God if I'm buying a $5K TV why would I place it on some of that junk they sell that isn't a piece of furniture and that cannot hold a center channel or lacks the space for all my components. You may pay twice as much but if I live in a $500K Condo I'm not placing it on a piece of junk wallmart piece as my wife wouldn't have it either. When the Samsung 1080P's debuted there were folks that built custom wall cabinets that had to cost as much as the TV or more - Sure if you run out of money but to me this monster needs a little help with a quality stand so those dumbo ears don't overwhelm the area. JMO - :D

Anyone else besides Sunshine actually shipping these things yet?The local store that I pre-ordered mine from called me today to let me know the set had arrived. They are delivering it on Monday. Needless to say, it's going to be a looooooong weekend. :)

How is that any different than powering the TV off? Or does the TV fan stay on after you've turned off the set?

The UPS runs the TV and the fan until the fan has cooled the bulb. Then you can power it down.

Sorry, TV can be turned off but the UPS keeps the fan running until it turns itself off as normal.

Just as important as the power-strip/surge protector functionality is UPS (uninterruptable power supply). The bulbs cost $250. If the power goes out and the fan stops before it cools the bulb (a couple minutes) the bulb at best probably gets its life shortened and at worst goes on the spot.

Suggest buying an UPS which has the power strip/surge protector functionality included. If you do a serch on AVS for "UPS" you will find lots of linformation.
Can you use the UPS with the hd cable box split to two tuners for twin-view? In doing a search I read that some of them have the cable going through it or maybe I'm getting UPS mixed-up with some other surge conditioner/protector devise.

Okay I went to the Windsor Sony Store where they had both the 50" and 60" set up today. I am mainly interested in the 60" so that is what I watched. First impressions are similar to what I reported before, i.e. the speakers and the gloss bezel are annoying. Having said that, the speakers actually looked better on the matching stand, than with the 50" since the 50" is smaller than the stand even with the retarded dubmo ears.

The screen, despite being matte, is hihgly reflective of even small amounts of light. I was wearing a light green shirt, with a bit of sheen to it, and I could clearlay see myself in the screen. there were bright lights directly above me, so this definetly contributed, but the sales rep couldn't shut off the lights, so I can't report on a lights off scenario.

The picture quality: With standard def via cable connected by DVI to HDMI, the picture was the best I've seen among HD tvs.

DVD was a sony ES 400 dvd player connected by component cables. The picture was generally excellent. Shadow detail was excellent, although not as good as a high end CRT display (I used a Sony VPH 1270 series CRT projector in my home theater, in my last home, and I'll be setting it up again when the basement in the new place is finally finished). The colours needed adjusting and I think one needs to spend a fair bit of time with this TV to dial it in perfectly, but generally speaking they were vibrant and contrast was outstanding. In the neutral colour mode, the colour tended a little towards red, I thought, but again this could be adjusted using the hue settings. I watched several segments of spiderman 2 and the incredibles. The incredibles was phenomenal. the TV actually has enough so much resolution that you can make out all sorts of details I had not seen on my TV before. there were also few if any motion artifacts. Overall, extremely impressive. Unfortunately, they didn't have an upscaling DVD player to try out today. Apparently Sony ES is releasing a new one in October...as well as a hard drive recorder capable of storing hi def, apparently.

I watched high def via DVI to HDMI. The program was TSN poker games. The detail was very impressive and overall picture quality was excellent. But I saw several things that I was concerned about. First, around any letters, or bright lights there was definetly a shimmering effect, that was clearly and recurrently visible. Also, when the spot lights panned across the screen, the picture would grossly pixelate. Can anyone tell me if these are effects of the Hi Def processor or the TV upscaler? the last issue, was that on a number of occasions, large portions of the image seemed to shimmer. For example, one guy was wearing a grey and silver shirt, and it almost looked like waves were going through the shirt at one point because of the shimmering. I didn't see this on any other HD channels, so it could be related to the program. Finally, one of the people in the background was wearing a black suit and was standing against a black background. I couldn't make out any details at all. When I compared this to the A10, you could acutally make out substantially more detail on the a10, which I thought was very unusual considering what has been said about the SXRD's shadow detail and ability to render blacks. I had th iris set on 2, and brightness was about midway. I had the picture setting at around 31 - 32.

The guys at the Sony Store are going to a talk next week to learn more about the TVs and the technology. He's going to find out what sort, if any, of direct input 1080p signal the TV will accept. Having seen the TV twice now, I'm going to wait to see some other reviews, and also see the Toshiba 1080p DLPs as well as the new 1080p JVC d-ILA. Anyone else have any comments? Specifically, can anyone clarify if the shimmering is likely due to the Tv or to the signal feeding it?

Thanks.

Rahi

Thats incorrect as I own that Bello Stand - I bought it for the Sammy 6768 and it is 63" Wide and while that SXRD is 66" that = 1.5" overhang of ears (negligible) - the actual foot sits well within the middle and the height is in fact made for a 60+" set the Sammy Stand for that TV is 19.5" mine is 20.5" (Vertical Differential is again negligible). Huge advantage is the middle shelf as it makes plenty of room for Center Channel as I have a Yamaha YSP-1 AVR 5.1 Sound Projector that sits directly under. Another advantage is that it's quality piece of furniture made in Italy and the top shelf holds over 150 lbs -(Sony 60" = 113 lbs).

Yes it costs more but God if I'm buying a $5K TV why would I place it on some of that junk they sell that isn't a piece of furniture and that cannot hold a center channel or lacks the space for all my components. You may pay twice as much but if I live in a $500K Condo I'm not placing it on a piece of junk wallmart piece as my wife wouldn't have it either. When the Samsung 1080P's debuted there were folks that built custom wall cabinets that had to cost as much as the TV or more - Sure if you run out of money but to me this monster needs a little help with a quality stand so those dumbo ears don't overwhelm the area. JMO - :D

We may be talking about different things...

When I do the measurements with anything but a 16-17"ish stand, when I'm sitting on my sofa or favorite chair, my line of site will no longer be to the middle (talking top to bottom) of the SXRD screen. My line of site will actually be about 4" below the mid section of the screen.

Now then I'm 6', but depending on your build (torso length vs leg length), the Bello stand may be perfect for you. To me, I'd feel like I'm looking up at the screen vs looking straight at it. From an ergonomic point of view, it is probably less stress if you're looking straight at something vs having to look slightly up or down.

Of course, what works for me may not work for you.

Jeff

We may be talking about different things...

When I do the measurements with anything but a 16-17"ish stand, when I'm sitting on my sofa or favorite chair, my line of site will no longer be to the middle (talking top to bottom) of the SXRD screen. My line of site will actually be about 4" below the mid section of the screen.

Now then I'm 6', but depending on your build (torso length vs leg length), the Bello stand may be perfect for you. To me, I'd feel like I'm looking up at the screen vs looking straight at it. From an ergonomic point of view, it is probably less stress if you're looking straight at something vs having to look slightly up or down.

Of course, what works for me may not work for you.I think it has a lot to do with how far you are sitting from the set. If you are only 8 feet away, I can understand why you might want a shorter stand. If you are sitting 15 feet away, the difference in height should be negligible. It's also a matter of personal preference. Some people don't mind looking slightly upward toward the screen while others feel more comfortable viewing it from straight on. My plasma is on a 24" stand and I have no problem with the height whatsoever.

Rahi

I have seen both the 50 and 60 inch several times now and would tend to think that it had more to do with the source then anything else. Watched a Coldplay concert in High def which looked absolutely spectacular especially when you can compare it to all of the other Sony products in their home theatre room. There is no comparison in the Sony line (exception 006) to the SXRD. I would think that they didn't have the set properly setup as there is so much more shadow detail to be found in these units then in any of their HDTVs.

I was fortunate enough to be able to watch Lord of the Rings Return of the King in high def feed from a Rogers unit and my jaw hit the floor. The amount of fine detail in the picture and the colours were breathtaking. I am a big LOTR fan and it was truly like watching it again for the first time in that there is so much more to see in the film that I had been missing.

If the set is properly setup then there is no comparison in the Sony line (except the Qualia).

Rahi

I have seen both the 50 and 60 inch several times now and would tend to think that it had more to do with the source then anything else. Watched a Coldplay concert in High def which looked absolutely spectacular especially when you can compare it to all of the other Sony products in their home theatre room. There is no comparison in the Sony line (exception 006) to the SXRD. I would think that they didn't have the set properly setup as there is so much more shadow detail to be found in these units then in any of their HDTVs.

I was fortunate enough to be able to watch Lord of the Rings Return of the King in high def feed from a Rogers unit and my jaw hit the floor. The amount of fine detail in the picture and the colours were breathtaking. I am a big LOTR fan and it was truly like watching it again for the first time in that there is so much more to see in the film that I had been missing.

If the set is properly setup then there is no comparison in the Sony line (except the Qualia).

thanks for the reply. I suspect that it might have to do with the signal. I asked my wife specifically to bring LOTR as I am also a huge fan (read the books six times, bought both the normal and box set extended versions of the DVDs), but she forgot! I'll go back again and check out the TV after they've had some time to try and fiddle with the TV. the problem is that all the retailers just set the TV on the VIVID video mode which is blindingly over bright and over-contrasted.

I'll keep checking it though.

Rahi

Rahi

If they have it hooked up ask the Saleman to show you some of the high def programs off of either ExpressVu or Rogers. Like I said if the set is properly calibrated then these sets can display stunning images.

Am hoping to get an upconverting DVD player to squeeze every last pixel out of my LOTR dvd collection amongst others.

Anyone using the Panasonic S77? Comments?

Interesting info regarding DVD performance on the Qualia from UMR - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6201735&&#post6201735

I already have a Denon 3800 I plan to pair with the 60" SXRD (I've never been a fan of the upconvering players)

Here's a message for any viewers that are in the metro Detroit area. Paulson's Video has the 60" SXRD set up for inspection. I visited the store today, and was impressed with the 60". They had it set up next to the A10, and the 70" Qualia. Salesman said that they got two yesterday, and he sold one right away.
The set is attractive; the fixed speakers are okay. Did not notice any shimmering. Brought a couple of superbit DVD's to test. Spiderman looked pretty good, but The Mark of Zorro was even better. (Could have something to do with that Zita-Jones gal!)
SD did not look too good, but I don't have the experience to judge how it compares to other sets.
Am waiting for my brother's judgement; he has yet to see the set and he is going to split the price with me.
Didn't try to get a price, but since I work for GM and anyone, say any A/V salesman, can buy a car for the price we can, it's only fair he extend the same deal for me. I'll pay his price.
D. Patrick

Rahi

If they have it hooked up ask the Saleman to show you some of the high def programs off of either ExpressVu or Rogers. Like I said if the set is properly calibrated then these sets can display stunning images.

Am hoping to get an upconverting DVD player to squeeze every last pixel out of my LOTR dvd collection amongst others.

Anyone using the Panasonic S77? Comments?

Canadian,

they don't have expressvu only cogeco cable hi def. I watched during the daytime today and they had minimal actual hidef programming. However, 1080i should be 1080i whether it's from cable or from satellite. I am very impressed with the set, but as always, you can never really tell till you get it home and try it out for yourself with your equipment and your signal.

I may consider this as an option. Certainly some places will let you try the TV without penalty if you choose not to keep the unit. The other issue of course, is price. With a stand and taxes, the price of the Tv is literally stratospheric. You're talking about close to Ca$ 8000.00! I'm reasonably well off, but that is unreasonable, in my opinion.

Have you bought one yourself?

Rahi

Can you use the UPS with the hd cable box split to two tuners for twin-view? In doing a search I read that some of them have the cable going through it or maybe I'm getting UPS mixed-up with some other surge conditioner/protector devise.

UPS function has nothing to do with cables; only the power. However, many surge protectors also have the telephone and coaxial antenna/cable input go through them for surge protection. Possible some UPS system, that also provides overall surge protection, would have provisions for protecting the telephone and coaxial cables. However, I doubt that any would serve to split signals. Easiest way to achieve that is to use a "splitter" for coaxial cable (i.e., like the cable company uses to split signals for the VCR and TV.

Rahi

I haven't made the plunge yet as I am debating about whether to wait a month or so and see what kind of package offer that Sony will have for Christmas. I will just kick myself if towards the end of November that Sony adds the incentive of a free stand with this unit and something else. However, I was speaking with the Manager of the Sony Store today and he offered me a deal in that if the stand or anything else was offered for free in the next several months that he would re-imburse me for the cost of the stand, etc. NEVER pay the asking price boys. I know for a fact on the $4999.99 Canadian sticker price for the 50 inch that there is about $800 to play with and barter with them. Don't pay the MSRP ever either through Futureshop, Bestbuy, or the Sony Store. All of these places will lower their prices if you ask to get a 'deal' instead of just purchasing it outright.

Food for thought.

I may pull the trigger on the 50 inch sooner then I think though depending on what I can work out around my neck of the woods.

I just this minute got a phone call from the Sony Store on Broadway in Vancouver, Canada. They just got BOTH the 50" and 60" SXRD's in ... they are still in the box! I will be making a trip down there on Saturday to do an evaluation!

I just went there a few hours ago, and yup, the 50" SXRD is on display, pretty sweet. Too bad about the un-removeable speakers...

I just went there a few hours ago, and yup, the 50" SXRD is on display, pretty sweet. Too bad about the un-removeable speakers...

You might be missing the big picture. The other 60" was for me.
It's everything the tv lives up to be. HDMI hookup from HD box and from
DVD player. Xbox in 480p on their games looks awesome. Such a bright pic.

You might be missing the big picture. The other 60" was for me.
It's everything the tv lives up to be. HDMI hookup from HD box and from
DVD player. Xbox in 480p on their games looks awesome. Such a bright pic.

oh don't worry. i didn't miss the big picture, the set is beyond words...just being a picky bastard ;)
regardless, they didn't have a set to sell, there was only the display one.

Anyone else have any comments? Specifically, can anyone clarify if the shimmering is likely due to the Tv or to the signal feeding it?

Thanks.

Rahi

Your post illustrates why you have to take your own eval material with
you to the store. I have on my computer several .tp files that I know forwards and
backwards, so when I see an image, I can compare it to how it looks on
my 1280x720 DLP set I've had for 1.5 years. Ask the sales guy if you can bring in
your computer or whatever box you use to record hi def.

I want to see the DVD "Drum Line" on this set ... the final competition scene. White uniforms against a jet black background. I have seen this scene on my tube set and a Faroudja Plasma ... in both cases the PQ looked outstanding.

Shimmering is visible on my KDF-50WE655 when there is a light bright background such as a blue sky. It was never an issue for me and I'm fairly certain it is the combination of screen material and optics. I don't mind it a bit.

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post to an AVS forum and I've been reading this forum like crazy the past week or two. Not sure how this stuff is so addictive! Anyways, I was wondering if I could get some input on something.

I ordered the 50" SXRD from SonyStyle on Tuesday and I think it is going to ship today. However, I keep reading about how awesome the 60" is and I am torn on which one I should get. Money isn't a huge factor, but I live in a small apartment right now and I'm not sure if the 60" would just look too big if I bought it. I sit about 7-8' away from the TV.

What do you guys think?

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post to an AVS forum and I've been reading this forum like crazy the past week or two. Not sure how this stuff is so addictive! Anyways, I was wondering if I could get some input on something.

I ordered the 50" SXRD from SonyStyle on Tuesday and I think it is going to ship today. However, I keep reading about how awesome the 60" is and I am torn on which one I should get. Money isn't a huge factor, but I live in a small apartment right now and I'm not sure if the 60" would just look too big if I bought it. I sit about 7-8' away from the TV.

What do you guys think?

50" is perfect for your viewing distance. The optimum viewing distance is 2-2.5 the diagonal of the screen.

:)

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post to an AVS forum and I've been reading this forum like crazy the past week or two. Not sure how this stuff is so addictive! Anyways, I was wondering if I could get some input on something.

I ordered the 50" SXRD from SonyStyle on Tuesday and I think it is going to ship today. However, I keep reading about how awesome the 60" is and I am torn on which one I should get. Money isn't a huge factor, but I live in a small apartment right now and I'm not sure if the 60" would just look too big if I bought it. I sit about 7-8' away from the TV.

What do you guys think?

My viewing distance will be between 9-10' so I'm getting the 60".

Because you are in an apartment, let me ask...if you don't plan on being there a long time or have any idea to move into your own home (sorta wise financial decision), then I would recommend the 60". However, ultimately it's up to you.

-Arv

This is getting to be ho-hum since it's about the umpteenth confirmation from professionals who were at Cedia that the Sony 1080P SXRD's and JVC 1080P D-ILA's stood out from the pack of 1080P Microdisplays. They Co-Shared the AVGuide Award for "Best in Show Flat Panel or Rear Projection Display". Cedia has become the most prestigious show of the year since all the manufacturers ar present with their latest and greatest displays and the judging, opinions and reviews tend to be from a very knowledgeable, professional group:

Rear Projection Best of CEDIA Expo 2005:

Best Flat Panel and Rear Projection Displays:

JVC HD-ILA and Sony SXRD 1080p Rear Projection Televisions


The display segment at CEDIA was loaded with new 1080p displays including flat panel LCDs and microdisplay-driven rear projectors based on LCoS (with entries from Sony, JVC, Brillian, and LG), DLP (with new entries from HP,Mitsubishi,Toshiba, Samsung), and LCD technologies (Epson). All these sets put
1920x1080 pixels on the screen and produced razor sharp images, and most produced very bright images, but to me there were two standouts, both using LCoS technology: JVC's HD-ILA and Sony's SXRD rear projectors. Sony's new SXRD offerings include the 50" KDS-R50XBR1 and 60" KDSR60XBR1, priced at $4,000 and
$5,000, respectively, which are shipping now. Both sets produced fantastic, full high-definition images using three of Sony's newly-developed .61" SXRD chips. In comparison to models based on other technologies, several things stood out about Sony's LCoS sets; specifically, they showed significantly fewer digital noise artifacts than the competition, while producing very deep blacks and bright whites. The new SXRD chip touts a remarkable 5,000:1 chip contrast ratio, and promises long life thanks to an inorganic crystal alignment layer. I was similarly impressed with JVC's second-generation rear projectors that now use three .7" 1080p HDILA chips. The line consists of the 56" HD-56FH96, the 61"HD-61FH96, and the 70" HD-70FH96, priced at $4000, $4500, and $6000, respectively, and
slated to become available in October. Like Sony's SXRD chips, JVC's HDILA chips also have an inorganic alignment layer and, again like the Sonys, use a dynamic iris system to produce d deep blacks with very bright whites. he JVC sets also had low noise, no doubt aided by the firm's digital and mosquito noise suppresion circuits. An additional benefit: The JVC sets will accept native external 1080P signals.

I just hope the 50" is big enough for my viewing pleasures :-) Is a 7-8' viewing distance too close for the 60" set? I only plan on being in my apartment for another year..maybe.

I think the distance is very individual thing. I use pip (now twin-view) a lot usually for sports, so when you have two channels on a 60" set, 7' or 8' is not too close, in fact I know I want that. I think after awhile your eyes adjust to wherever you view it from. That's just my opinion, someone else would say it's too close, my wife will probably complain, but there's a lot of seats 15' to 18' from the tv in our living room, she will sit there when she watches it. I guess we'll learn when we get our sxrds.

Have any SXRDs showed up in the Denver area yet?

From the Qualia thread:



HERE YE, HERE YE, QUALIA OWNERS ACROSS THE LAND!!!
(and probably GW SXRD owners, too)

YOUR TELEVISION CAN DISPLAY 1080P VIA I.LINK!!!

So get your bad selves a Blu-Ray player when they come out and enjoy!!!

(I'll be looking into this even more throughout the fall making sure I have not made an error along the way, including trying out 1080p24 which has yet to be tested.)


this is amazing - at least we have one way to get 1080p in digitally. Thank you Apple for inventing FireWire!!!

I just hope the 50" is big enough for my viewing pleasures :-) Is a 7-8' viewing distance too close for the 60" set? I only plan on being in my apartment for another year..maybe.

I would go for the 60" assuming the PQ is as good as has been reported, but it's a personal choice...

this is amazing - at least we have one way to get 1080p in digitally. Thank you Apple for inventing FireWire!!!

It still won't help those of us looking to use game consoles, HTPCs or external scalers though. And in any case, isn't firewire MPEGII compression? Are Blu-Ray and HD-DVD using MPEGII? If not, it would have to be uncompressed, and recompressed as MPEGII by the player for the tv to be able to uncompress the firewire signal on the other side.

Firewire is just a pathway. Think of it like a freeway. You can drive down the freeway in a lexus or in a ford, it doesn't really matter to the freeway. So yes, firewire can support either MPEG-2 or 4. The real question is whether or not the receiving device can decode that signal, or if somehow the player can decode and encode on the fly (not likely).

Firewire is just a pathway. Think of it like a freeway. You can drive down the freeway in a lexus or in a ford, it doesn't really matter to the freeway. So yes, firewire can support either MPEG-2 or 4. The real question is whether or not the receiving device can decode that signal, or if somehow the player can decode and encode on the fly (not likely).

Firewire is a pathway for compressed signals though right? You can't send uncompressed video over it. That means, if the tv doesn't know how to uncompress it when it gets to the other side, it can't display it. The tv has to have hardware for doing the uncompression, which limits the algorithms that it will work with. That was my understanding, but I could be wrong.

Firewire is a pathway for compressed signals though right? You can't send uncompressed video over it. That means, if the tv doesn't know how to uncompress it when it gets to the other side, it can't display it. The tv has to have hardware for doing the uncompression, which limits the algorithms that it will work with. That was my understanding, but I could be wrong.
Er.. what about my post didn't make this clear? Yes, it is just a pathway. No, the signals don't necessarily have to be compressed, but you only have 400 or 800MBps to play with depending on what version of Firewire. In the case of high definition, the uncompressed data stream would exceed these speeds, so compression is required. In that case, the receiving device has to know how to decode that compressed signal! :)

Well, technically the firewire port would be able to receive anything that would be possible to receive via OTA tuner - As far as HD is concerned FireWire is the BEST way to get that material to display because all the processing happens inside the TV - like how CableCard is superior to receiving through a set-top box/HDMI. You always get a better picture using D-VHS via firewire vs. hdmi output..

BUT the problem is American HDTV sets would have only MPEG-2 support, but I would imagine European ones would also support H.264..

Er.. what about my post didn't make this clear? Yes, it is just a pathway. No, the signals don't necessarily have to be compressed, but you only have 400 or 800MBps to play with depending on what version of Firewire. In the case of high definition, the uncompressed data stream would exceed these speeds, so compression is required. In that case, the receiving device has to know how to decode that compressed signal! :)

Ok, I agree with that, but I'm still not seeing what you are trying to say. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be dense, but according to what you just wrote, that means it won't work with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray unless they use MPEGII compression right? There isn't enough bandwidth to do 1080p uncompressed, and the tv can't uncrompress anything but MPEGII, therefore you're out of luck if HD-DVD and Blu-Ray don't use MPEGII (which they might, I'm not sure).

It sounds like we are saying the same thing. I understand there is no inherent requirement to send a compressed signal, but in practice, when you are talking about HD video, there is no other choice. You're right, I should have made the distinction clear in my original post. I thought you were disagreeing with my assumption that HD-DVD/Blu-Ray won't work unless it uses MPEGII, but now I think I see you were just disagreeing with me saying firewire will only carry an MPEGII compressed video signal.

Ok, I agree with that, but I'm still not seeing what you are trying to say. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be dense, but according to what you just wrote, that means it won't work with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray unless they use MPEGII compression right? There isn't enough bandwidth to do 1080p uncompressed, and the tv can't uncrompress anything but MPEGII, therefore you're out of luck if HD-DVD and Blu-Ray don't use MPEGII (which they might, I'm not sure).

It sounds like we are saying the same thing. I undertand there is no inherent requirement to send a compressed signal, but in practice, when you are talking about HD video, there is no other choice. You're right, I should have made the distinction clear in my original post. I thought you were disagreeing with my assumption that HD-DVD/Blu-Ray won't work unless it uses MPEGII, but now I think I see you were just disagreeing with me saying firewire will only carry an MPEGII compressed video signal.
No, I agree. What I'm saying is this doesn't mean anything unless the TV can decode MPEG-4 (possible, but probably not likely). Blu-Ray will be encoded using MPEG-4.

Perhaps, a knowledgeable person will answer this question for me.

Adelphia and other cable companies seem to be having a great deal of trouble making one-way cablecard work. It may become necessary to rent an HD cablebox to receive the pay channels while I pester the hell out of the cable company to make cablecard do what it is supposed to do.

I am primarily interested in HD programming. DVD viewing is a distant second. Games, computer connections, etc. are non-issues.

My question is how should I connect the cablebox to the SXRD? Should I use a cable wire from the box to the set's cable input or component cables? A second question is; can the cablebox be set for a direct pass-through of the signal so that the SXRD does all of the processing of the raw signal?

Above all, I want the SXRD to produce the best possible picture from the cable signal.

Thanks for any advice.

Perhaps, a knowledgeable person will answer this question for me.

Adelphia and other cable companies seem to be having a great deal of trouble making one-way cablecard work. It may become necessary to rent an HD cablebox to receive the pay channels while I pester the hell out of the cable company to make cablecard do what it is supposed to do.

I am primarily interested in HD programming. DVD viewing is a distant second. Games, computer connections, etc. are non-issues.

My question is how should I connect the cablebox to the SXRD? Should I use a cable wire from the box to the set's cable input or component cables? A second question is; can the cablebox be set for a direct pass-through of the signal so that the SXRD does all of the processing of the raw signal?

Above all, I want the SXRD to produce the best possible picture from the cable signal.

Thanks for any advice.


Depends on what Brand and Model CableBox you're getting?

My question is how should I connect the cablebox to the SXRD? Should I use a cable wire from the box to the set's cable input or component cables? A second question is; can the cablebox be set for a direct pass-through of the signal so that the SXRD does all of the processing of the raw signal?Whatever you do, don't use the coax connection. Your best bet is to use a digital connection if your cable box has one. If it has an HDMI out, you can go directly to one of the SXRD's HDMI ins. If it has a DVI out, you will either need a DVI -> HDMI cable or an adapter. Since the SXRD has a native reolution of 1920 X 1080, you should set you cable box to output 1080i for the best picture quality.

I just hope the 50" is big enough for my viewing pleasures :-) Is a 7-8' viewing distance too close for the 60" set? I only plan on being in my apartment for another year..maybe.

The "official" best viewing distance, according to Lucas' THX Certification is
whatever distance gives a 36 degree viewing angle. For a 16:9 display,
diagonal screen size (diag) and viewing distance (dis)
it follows that the viewing angle is given by:

angle = 2*arc tan (diag*8/dis*sqrt 337)

So by solving this equation for distance (exersize left to the reader) you can calculate the optimum screen size assuming a 36 degree angle.
As a sanity check, I have a 34.6 degree angle,
and my viewing distance seems about right. The tradeoff is that
going bigger increases your sense of emersion,
but at the cost of decreased picture quality. I have a
1280x720 display, so going to a 1920x1080 display will buy me a
PQ-emersion budget that I can spend on PQ/emersion in any
proportion I want.

My question is how should I connect the cablebox to the SXRD? Should I use a cable wire from the box to the set's cable input or component cables? A second question is; can the cablebox be set for a direct pass-through of the signal so that the SXRD does all of the processing of the raw signal?


The only way to get the raw signal to the SXRD is via i.Link, but your cable box has to have firewire out, and must be able to pass through the raw signal - If it works you would have same picture quality as CableCard. Another thing, you would lose the on screen guide via firewire though.

I just ordered the first 60" SXRD from Myer Emco in the Washington, DC area. They have it in their warehouse, and can deliver it as soon as Tuesday.

Myer Emco has a 60-day best price guarantee, which I've taken advantage of before, and I expect prices to come down in the next few weeks as availability increases.

I'll post my impressions soon after I get my set.

WOO-HOOOO!

I just happened to check out the F*ture Sh*p website (the Cdn affiliate of BB) and the 60" is not only on their website, it's in stock!! Not being too trusting of website info, I called 2 stores and not only did FS get their shipment of 60 of the 60" sets at the warehouse, they had already shipped one to each store as demos. I immediately called my local FS and bought the set sent to them, which had already arrived but hadn't been opened yet!!! I got it for 15.4% off Cdn MSRP (purchased with warranty), which I thought was pretty good for a spankin' new set. It's going to be delivered later this afternoon!! I feel woozy with glee... (where's the exploding head emoticon?)

Happy SXRD shopping Canadians!

Ordered a 60" SXRD from shop sunshine today and they said it was in stock and it would ship out no later than next Thursday. I sure hope this works out with sunshine. I was reluctant but no one else in my area had one. I'll keep you posted.

The "official" best viewing distance, according to Lucas' THX Certification is
whatever distance gives a 36 degree viewing angle. For a 16:9 display,
diagonal screen size (diag) and viewing distance (dis)
it follows that the viewing angle is given by:

angle = 2*arc tan (diag*8/dis*sqrt 337)

So by solving this equation for distance (exersize left to the reader) you can calculate the optimum screen size assuming a 36 degree angle.
As a sanity check, I have a 34.6 degree angle,
and my viewing distance seems about right. The tradeoff is that
going bigger increases your sense of emersion,
but at the cost of decreased picture quality. I have a
1280x720 display, so going to a 1920x1080 display will buy me a
PQ-emersion budget that I can spend on PQ/emersion in any
proportion I want.

Anyone not "into math" can go to the following site, plug in numbers, and get the answer: http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html#anchor_13194

Gweempose, you say not to use the coax connection. Why is this the case, since the best possible picture would be provided by connecting the cable directly to the set if you did not have a box? That, too, would be a digital connection would it not? Why does a coax connection from the box serve to make it a non-digital connection?

Further, if I set the box that I may be forced to use to 1080I, wouldn't that mean that the box, rather than the superior tuner in the SXRD, would be doing the upconverting from lower resolutions?

SlickVik, you said:
"The only way to get the raw signal to the SXRD is via i.Link, but your cable box has to have firewire out, and must be able to pass through the raw signal - If it works you would have same picture quality as CableCard. Another thing, you would lose the on screen guide via firewire though."

What is i.Link? Also, I have to admit I don't know for sure what firewire out means. I think I know, but I'm embarassed to say that I'm not sure. In any event, how would I do it? (By the way, I don't care that much about losing the screen guide.

Sorry to be a pest, but I would like to know what I'm doing when that big SXRD is delivered. Thanks.

I just ordered the first 60" SXRD from Myer Emco in the Washington, DC area. They have it in their warehouse, and can deliver it as soon as Tuesday.

Myer Emco has a 60-day best price guarantee, which I've taken advantage of before, and I expect prices to come down in the next few weeks as availability increases.

I'll post my impressions soon after I get my set.

Myer Emco also has a 90 day trade up policy on their TV's.

Gweempose, you say not to use the coax connection. Why is this the case, since the best possible picture would be provided by connecting the cable directly to the set if you did not have a box? That, too, would be a digital connection would it not? Why does a coax connection from the box serve to make it a non-digital connection?Unless it is a straight passthrough, the coax feed on your cable box is an RF out. You cannot get HD through this connection. The only way to get HD through a cable box is through a digital or component connection.

bhaaf: I also ordered a 60" from Shop Sunshine today. Also was told that it would ship next Thursday.

Let us know when you get yours.

I just hope the 50" is big enough for my viewing pleasures :-) Is a 7-8' viewing distance too close for the 60" set? I only plan on being in my apartment for another year..maybe.

Buy that s-i-x-t-y i-n-c-h-e-r and don't look back. HDTV is all about being "immersed" in the viewing experience.

Sony's own recommendtions per the SXRD manual are 6.6' minimum for the 50" and 7' minimum for the 60." So, there's not that much difference and you should be fine. Even if poorer quality feeds are a little troublesome that close, since it's reasonable to expect your new set to last more than a year (we all hope!) you will thank yourself over and over again for getting the bigger display after you've moved.

Are you guys that are ordering on-line going to get an Extended Warranty through Sony?

At $319 for 5 years, it sounds pretty good even though it doesn't include bulbs.

Does anyone have any experience, good or bad, with using the direct-from-Sony warranty?

I'm getting the 60 inch screen and I'll be viewing it from about 13 feet. This is due to the fact that I don't want my living room to be this big TV and then a couch right on top of it. I personally like things spread out a little bit space wise since I too am squeezing my home theater into an apartment living room that measures about 17 ft. long by 13 ft. wide. I'm not so sure it's good for your eyes to be thisclose (or as close as others have suggested) to the TV anyway. I'd say 10 ft. is probably a good minimum distance for 60 inches and maybe 8 or 9 ft. for the 50 inch.

The best way to see what's best for you is to go to the store with a tape measure and see what works for you. You really don't even need to look at an SXRD to do this. A 60 inch screen is a 60 inch screen. If you're trying to pre-order, like anything else that you're buying without first seeing, it's a risk (unless of course you've had other big screen TVs and know what to expect).

UE are supposed to be getting them late next week (slipped from this week).

I went to the UE in Park Meadows yesterday and they said late next week. Then he tried to sell me on buying the Epson DLP. I laughed.

Unless it is a straight passthrough, the coax feed on your cable box is an RF out. You cannot get HD through this connection. The only way to get HD through a cable box is through a digital or component connection.

Oh, so the box changes a perfectly good digital signal from the cable to a radio frequency (analog?) for input to the cable connection on the tv set? I can't imagine why this is the case, but I certainly don't doubt what you are telling me.

Therefore, the only way to escape losing the digital signal is to "catch it" before it is transformed into RF, keep it digital and move it into the set using a different connector on the set.

Ah, I just had a thought. (It's about time.) Maybe the box transforms the signal from digital to analog (?) so that the signal could be put into and used by an analog set. After all, there has to be some reason to screw up a good digital signal. This would allow an analog set to display digital channels in analog format. It's the dual requirement for the box that complicates matters.

I am now thinking that I will split the cable signal, so that I can get the best picture from the "free" digital (including HD) channels and use component connections (or firewire?) to connect the cablebox to the set for the extra pay channels.

Does this make any sense or am I off-base here?

Is a digital connection different than a component connection? Sorry for being so stupid.

UE are supposed to be getting them late next week (slipped from this week).
Sweet. I really want to look at this set since it is getting so much love.

My cable box has a multitude of connections, but it's a special HD box. A coax cable is always going to plug into the back of these boxes, it's the outbound side that you need to be concerned with. Most cable boxes (whether they are called "digital" boxes or not) only give you the basic RF in, RF out, and the basic red/white/yellow RCA jacks. Now my HD box has the RF in and out, but also has a DVI out, digital audio coax out, component out, and the red/white RCA jacks. So I have plenty of choices for hooking up to my system. Plus I have split my cable so that I can connect my DVR with CableCard to record the high def channels and my TV/high def cable box independent of each other.

I went to the UE in Park Meadows yesterday and they said late next week. Then he tried to sell me on buying the Epson DLP. I laughed.

I noticed the Epsons at Park Meadows. Haven't heard anything about them. Bad news?

I just got a call from my local B&M that my 60" SXRD has arrived and is ready for delivery. Unfortunately the stand I ordered won't be delivered until next tuesday so I have to wait until Wednesday to get the TV. I live in Thousand Oaks which is just outside of Los Angeles. I ordered it on August 28th, and got a little over 10% off with free delivery and setup.

I just hope the 50" is big enough for my viewing pleasures :-) Is a 7-8' viewing distance too close for the 60" set? I only plan on being in my apartment for another year..maybe.

No one has ever regreted getting a TV that was 'too big'.
If you go the other way, with the 50", be sure to get it at a place where you can take it back for a full refund, cause you'll want to do soon after you
realize how much better the full size set would have been.

If anyone in the Philadelphia, PA area knows where I can check one of these out please let me know! There don't seem to be that many independent dealers, just big chains like BBuy, CC, and Tweeter...only place I found outside of that is HiFi House...I'm just dying to see one of these things so I can finally order one :)

My apologies if this has already been answered somewhere in this thread, but did not have the time to find it at the moment.

Does anybody know what the Sony recommended stand is for the SXRD 60"?? And the best place (price) to find it??

Thanks!

No one has ever regreted getting a TV that was 'too big'.
If you go the other way, with the 50", be sure to get it at a place where you can take it back for a full refund, cause you'll want to do soon after you
realize how much better the full size set would have been.

I agree.

What is i.Link? Also, I have to admit I don't know for sure what firewire out means. I think I know, but I'm embarassed to say that I'm not sure. In any event, how would I do it? (By the way, I don't care that much about losing the screen guide.


iLink is just Sony's name for firewire - Its a special port used to hook up D-VHS and camcorders to the Sony TV - There are two of them on the SXRD. Every cable box should also have one of these, as per the FCC. Then just hook up a firewire cable between them, and if enabled by the cable company, it will be passing the raw feed through this port. I hope this helps.

My apologies if this has already been answered somewhere in this thread, but did not have the time to find it at the moment.

Does anybody know what the Sony recommended stand is for the SXRD 60"?? And the best place (price) to find it??

Thanks!Go to the Sonystyle.com website and look under ACCESSORIES section of the SXRD product page for a link to the recommended stand (SU-GW12)...including downloaded pdf.

No one has ever regreted getting a TV that was 'too big'.
If you go the other way, with the 50", be sure to get it at a place where you can take it back for a full refund, cause you'll want to do soon after you
realize how much better the full size set would have been.

Wrong wrong wrong....there are lots of people that get TVs that are 'too big' and return them. Where did you get the notion that one has ever regretted it? If you get too big of a screen it can be nauseating to watch if you don't sit at the proper distance. It is most certainly a personal preference, and making a blanket statement like that is silly.

Wrong wrong wrong....there are lots of people that get TVs that are 'too big' and return them. Where did you get the notion that one has ever regretted it? If you get too big of a screen it can be nauseating to watch if you don't sit at the proper distance. It is most certainly a personal preference, and making a blanket statement like that is silly.
Prove it! "Lots of people" is pretty broad and I've been reading these posts for nearly a year and rarely have seen anyone post this occurring - it is the opposite effect as one's eyes adjust and the set shrinks after a few weeks. There have been polls done on this and your statement does not hold up to it's results from members on this forum that participated. Show us one ost where someone returned a set then bring on the "LOTS". :D

Wrong wrong wrong....there are lots of people that get TVs that are 'too big' and return them. Where did you get the notion that one has ever regretted it? If you get too big of a screen it can be nauseating to watch if you don't sit at the proper distance. It is most certainly a personal preference, and making a blanket statement like that is silly.

This coming from someone with a 27 inch TV. Do you have to watch your TV with binoculars?

:p

It is VERY unlikely that someone who buys a 60 inch TV will think it is TOO BIG and take it back! (This coming from someone with a 123 inch screen) :)

People who operate with big sizes have more enjoyment pure and simple!

Prove it!

Chris may have overstated his point, but I definitely think (from my own experience) that a 60" would be borderline too big from 7'. That's not even 1 1/2 times the diagonal screen size...not that formulas or equations are the "end all" to this dilemma.

The "size vs distance" issue is a matter of personal preference. My advice is, and always has been, to go to a local B&M (hopefully not a corporate box) and sit down and watch a whole bunch of TV. Move the chairs around so that it replicates your seating at home and just watch TV for a while...see which size suits you better. If you're still unsure, err on the side of the larger set...you won't regret it. There is a "break-in" period when you get the set home and look at it and say, "Holy Crap...that thing's huge!", but it will seem smaller as you get used to it.

J.

People who operate with big sizes have more enjoyment pure and simple!
Give it a rest, Fartwood the Ass Rash...:D :p :eek:

J.

Anyone know where I can view a 60" in San Jose, CA?

I am going to the Sony Store tomorrow to put the 50" SXRD through its paces with DVD's and HDTV. Assuming the salesman will let me change the settings, what are the best settings for the SXRD ... at least the most critical ones?

Any other suggestions for DVD's other than LOTR and Drum Line?

Thanks.

...what are the best settings for the SXRD?
It's probably too early to tell...seeing as there are only a few SXRD owners so far, nobody is too eager to go in a start tweaking the settings. They're simply enjoying the stunning out-of-the-box performance of their new set. I won't have mine hooked up until Sunday, but I probably won't run Avia until next weekend when I really have some time to bond with my new TV! :D Until then, I'll just enjoy it and post pics and answer questions, etc...

J.

I am going to the Sony Store tomorrow to put the 50" SXRD through its paces with DVD's and HDTV. Assuming the salesman will let me change the settings, what are the best settings for the SXRD ... at least the most critical ones?

Any other suggestions for DVD's other than LOTR and Drum Line?

Thanks.

Avia or DVE :D

Thanks to everyone for their responses. Didn't think I would get this much feedback! I would also like to share my buying experience with you all.

I ordered my 50" SXRD from SonyStyle on Tuesday this week for $4k. I know, I know, paying MSRP is stupid, but the salesman promised me it was in stock and ready to ship so I took the plunge. However, come Friday (today) it still hadn't shipped and I was getting frustrated. So I decided to call my local B&M (Nebraska Furniture Mart in Kansas City) and asked them if they were even selling the set. Well, sure enough they were selling the 50" for $3600 and the 60" for $4500. They expect to have them in on the 10th of October. So I called Sony faster than you can say "ripoff" and cancelled my order.

Luckily my set was still sitting in the warehouse and I was able to cancel my order. I went to NFM and discovered that I also got a FREE $300 Sony DVD Recorder with my purchase. AND, if I pick the correct score of the Nebraska/Iowa St. game tomorrow I get the TV for FREE!!! So I decided on 21-13 (Iowa St.) and I pray to God that is the outcome tomorrow. Who knows though.

Now that 60" is looking even better at $4500. I can always return the 50" if it seems too small. Though I think I will get it and just be amazed by its size and not care about the 60" anymore. Who knows.....

Thanks again for the advice. Enjoy waiting for your sets :-)

Anyone know where I can view a 60" in San Jose, CA?Try Magnolia in "about" two weeks. :(

Anderson in two to four weeks. :mad:

I don't know about GGs.

All of those who ordered from ShopSunshine, how is it that they are selling this unit so inexpensively? I called, waited on hold for an eternity, and then spoke with a salesperson who assured me that it is not a gray market set.

I did some deep soulsearching, cancelled my 50" on order at SonyStyle and ordered the 60" from Sunshine. I guess I'm just a little nervous about this whole transaction.

Has anyone besides Bombthroat had any experience with this seller?

I'm not sure if anyone has asked this question before, but I'm curious why TVA isn't offering the SXRD? They carry Sony sets why wouldnt they carry this one? I know I would feel alot more comfortable buying this set from them because of their reputation.

All of those who ordered from ShopSunshine, how is it that they are selling this unit so inexpensively? I called, waited on hold for an eternity, and then spoke with a salesperson who assured me that it is not a gray market set.

I did some deep soulsearching, cancelled my 50" on order at SonyStyle and ordered the 60" from Sunshine. I guess I'm just a little nervous about this whole transaction.

Has anyone besides Bombthroat had any experience with this seller?

You may get this set at or near sunshine's price from B&M stores. It depends on the location of the store. Meaning are they in need of business. I check sony's website for authorize internet dealers and they weren't listed. GOOD LUCK!

I ordered my 50" through circuit city locally here in the Kansas City area 3 days ago and got a call already that my set has shipped and should be here in the next 5 days... Not to mention that they had it on sale..

Plus I had a 10% off coupon that I found online to get the unit down to $3419 PLUS Free delivery.... Can't beat that....

I NEVER post here, but I wanted to let you guys know that about a year ago I ordered a 42" Sony Plasma from Sunshine for 4K and was very impressed... no problems at all to complain about. I'll be ordering my 50" SXRD as soon as they get them in, you can be sure the price will be excellent.

I'm not sure if anyone has asked this question before, but I'm curious why TVA isn't offering the SXRD? They carry Sony sets why wouldnt they carry this one? I know I would feel alot more comfortable buying this set from them because of their reputation.They won't be carrying the Bravia line either.

If anyone in the Philadelphia, PA area knows where I can check one of these out please let me know! There don't seem to be that many independent dealers, just big chains like BBuy, CC, and Tweeter...only place I found outside of that is HiFi House...I'm just dying to see one of these things so I can finally order one :) I got a call from my guy at the HiFi House in Broomall, PA: they put the SXRD on display today. Unfortunately, I told him that because of my work schedule, I could only make the trip up there if they got it before the end of September. So please go there and enjoy it for me. ;)

Wrong wrong wrong....there are lots of people that get TVs that are 'too big' and return them. Where did you get the notion that one has ever regretted it? If you get too big of a screen it can be nauseating to watch if you don't sit at the proper distance. It is most certainly a personal preference, and making a blanket statement like that is silly.

I've been reading posts for two years on this topic. I have never heard
the complaint "dang, I hate this big screen TV! I feel too immersed in the action...
wish I had a small screen to look at.
On the other hand, I've read countless posts from people that thank their lucky stars
that they went the "more is better" route.
At 7', a viewer will feel more immersed in the action with a 60" vs a 50"
set. And because we are talking about a 1920x1080 set (as opposed to
a 1280x720) you recover the pixel density you lose by going to the bigger set.
Of course there is such a thing as too big for the viewing distance.
That happens when you start losing information due to the image being
outside your peripheral vision. This occurs at a viewing angle
of 44 degrees. In order for the screen to be too large for a 7'
viewing distance,
the diagonal measure would have to be 77", this according to official
THX certification. Emperical data bears this out.

In order for the screen to be too large for a 7'
viewing distance, the diagonal measure would have to be 77", this according to official
THX certification. Empirical data bears this out.

There are no absolutes and empirical data flies out the window when we're talking about preference. When I go to the cinema I'm always amazed at the people who choose to sit in the front and also by the people who choose to sit in the back. In their own way those people are demonstrating their preference for a much larger (or smaller) relative screen size.

I have no difficulty imagining a person sitting seven feet away from a 60" or 70" screen and thinking it was larger than it ought to be.

Personally, I don't find larger displays to be more immersive. With programming I care about I get sucked in even if the screen is small. A large screen is impressive, but I honestly don't notice the size once I've started watching something.

Prove it! "Lots of people" is pretty broad and I've been reading these posts for nearly a year and rarely have seen anyone post this occurring - it is the opposite effect as one's eyes adjust and the set shrinks after a few weeks. There have been polls done on this and your statement does not hold up to it's results from members on this forum that participated. Show us one ost where someone returned a set then bring on the "LOTS". :D

Call up any store and ask! I guarantee you you'll see returns from people who decided the TV was 'too big for their room'....

Not everyone is a A/V enthusiast like you and I, westa....

It is VERY unlikely that someone who buys a 60 inch TV will think it is TOO BIG and take it back! (This coming from someone with a 123 inch screen) :)

Hey not all of us are 50 years old and have had a house for 20 years, ya know? My 27" came from my bedroom, where, sadly, a 123 screen would be pretty stupid ;)

Considering you have a dedicated room, why don't you put that 123 inch screen up in the family room and see what the wife says? :)

So Rob what kind of electronics and speakers are behind that big bad 123 inch screen?

Chris

All of those who ordered from ShopSunshine, how is it that they are selling this unit so inexpensively? I called, waited on hold for an eternity, and then spoke with a salesperson who assured me that it is not a gray market set.

I did some deep soulsearching, cancelled my 50" on order at SonyStyle and ordered the 60" from Sunshine. I guess I'm just a little nervous about this whole transaction.

Has anyone besides Bombthroat had any experience with this seller?

Wasn't quite as good a price, but I ordered from NewYorkAudioVideo. If I encounter any problems I will post here. Please let us know how your transaction proceeds.

I am going to the Sony Store tomorrow to put the 50" SXRD through its paces with DVD's and HDTV. Assuming the salesman will let me change the settings, what are the best settings for the SXRD ... at least the most critical ones?

Any other suggestions for DVD's other than LOTR and Drum Line?

Thanks.

A lot of people on these threads swear by the movie "The Fifth Element" with Bruce Willis as a great movie to use to check out video quality.

A lot of people on these threads swear by the movie "The Fifth Element" with Bruce Willis as a great movie to use to check out video quality.SUPERBIT version of course

Also, SIN CITY and FINDING NEMO are good torture testers.

Doesn't "Finding Nemo" have artifacts in the master?? There was a lot written over in the DVD player subforum and it was determined that it was in the DVD.

I woner how wet is wet. What I mean by this is what is the point that are eyes stop resolving resolution. Is 1080P with 100 fill rate the magic number. Is it double that amount? Obviously there are lots of improvements to make with better scalers, better CR, BL, etc.

Wasn't quite as good a price, but I ordered from NewYorkAudioVideo. If I encounter any problems I will post here. Please let us know how your transaction proceeds.

I would seriously recommend anyone considering ordering online check out thier vendor on resellerratings.com. People posting reviews on shopsunshine have many horror stories, and NewYorkAudioVideo isn't listed at all so they can't have been in business very long making them suspect.

I ordered my 50" through circuit city locally here in the Kansas City area 3 days ago and got a call already that my set has shipped and should be here in the next 5 days... Not to mention that they had it on sale..

Plus I had a 10% off coupon that I found online to get the unit down to $3419 PLUS Free delivery.... Can't beat that....

Nice deal, I did a search for Circuit City coupons, found the 10% off offer but it excludes Sony XBR's :(

You can always try to get PC Richards (an authorized dealer) to pricematch Sunshine.

Rahi

I haven't made the plunge yet as I am debating about whether to wait a month or so and see what kind of package offer that Sony will have for Christmas. I will just kick myself if towards the end of November that Sony adds the incentive of a free stand with this unit and something else. However, I was speaking with the Manager of the Sony Store today and he offered me a deal in that if the stand or anything else was offered for free in the next several months that he would re-imburse me for the cost of the stand, etc. NEVER pay the asking price boys. I know for a fact on the $4999.99 Canadian sticker price for the 50 inch that there is about $800 to play with and barter with them. Don't pay the MSRP ever either through Futureshop, Bestbuy, or the Sony Store. All of these places will lower their prices if you ask to get a 'deal' instead of just purchasing it outright.

Food for thought.

I may pull the trigger on the 50 inch sooner then I think though depending on what I can work out around my neck of the woods.

Dear Canadian,

I know the Sony store was willing to negotiate price with me as well. As for Future Shop I know a manager in the toronto area who gives us awesome deals, but I haven't even tried to check yet, because the prices of new TVs have been dropping so rapidly. For example, the Toshiba DLP HM 85 series TV's dropped nearly 30% within two months of release. This may have to do with the fact that there is a 1080p chip DLP coming soon, but regardless, I'm waiting till Christmas.

Rahi

rahi, what is this "shimmering" that you refer to? Shimmering to me connotes a movement or vibration of the picture, such as if you are looking at something through the heat rising from the ground on a hot day. Or, are you referring to a speckle effect that takes the form of many very closely spaced very small black dots that are visible in light areas of the picture?

Also, as far as shadow detail is concerned, if the SXRD is anything like the A10 you should set the picture mode to Custom and go into the Advanced picture settings menu and turn off Black Corrector and turn on Gamma. That should enable more shadow detail.


Sorry for the delayed reply. I wasn't able to access my mail yesterday because I was out of town.

The effect I saw was like a blurring of the image or sparkles occasionally (? SSE) around bright images. The specs were not black at all - rather, they were the colour of whatever it was I was looking at. However, when the spotlight at the poker event panned across the screen (i.e. you're looking right into the spotlight), the picture became grossly pixelated. I didn't get a chance to mess with the gamma or black corrector settings, but as I mentioned earlier, I suspect the black level issue was more likely due to settings that to the TV itself.

I suspect this TV is capable of terrific images, but I'm definetly concerned about the artifacts I've seen.

Rahi

All of those who ordered from ShopSunshine, how is it that they are selling this unit so inexpensively? I called, waited on hold for an eternity, and then spoke with a salesperson who assured me that it is not a gray market set.

I did some deep soulsearching, cancelled my 50" on order at SonyStyle and ordered the 60" from Sunshine. I guess I'm just a little nervous about this whole transaction.

Has anyone besides Bombthroat had any experience with this seller?


Hey Deke, I did the exact same thing - I had a 50" set from SonyStyle on the truck to my house. When shopping for TV stands, went to CC and my wife saw a 50" set (not an SXRD), and saw that in comparison to a 60" set, and demanded I cancel and get a 60"!! Needless to say she didn't have to twist my arm! (Our TV is around 11-13" from the TV, so I figured I'd take the chance with the bigger TV..)

I saw the price at shopsunshine, and it was less than I was going to pay for the 50". I called them asking lots of questions. Looks like they have a 3rd party for the warranty (Repairtech) which I ordered. They said they had 6 in stock, which I doubted, but I'm not in a huge hurry so I placed the order anyway (they don't collect tax if your out of NY state). One thing their website says is to unbox and test the set before accepting delivery - so I plan on doing that, the shippers are going to have to wait 10 minutes before leaving I guess. I'm not expecting to get the set for a few weeks but I'll post my experiences.

You can always try to get PC Richards (an authorized dealer) to pricematch Sunshine.I tried to get my local B&M to pricematch Sunshine and they laughed at me. They said flat out that they don't match the price of non-authorized dealers. The whole thing is very confusing to me. What exactly does it me to be an "authorized dealer"? Sunshine claims that all of the Sony TV's they sell are covered by a full manufacturers warranty. If this is the case, what's the difference between buying it from them and buying it from an "authorized dealer"?

... when the spotlight at the poker event panned across the screen (i.e. you're looking right into the spotlight), the picture became grossly pixelated ... I suspect this TV is capable of terrific images, but I'm definetly concerned about the artifacts I've seen.This is a bit concerning to me as well. I was watching the 50" at the store for a while yesterday. They were showing an HD cable feed of our local PBS affiliate. I'm sad to report that there was indeed quite a bit of macroblocking going on during fast movement. I hadn't noticed this the first time I checked out the set, but it could be because they were previously showing mostly slow moving images. I'm hoping it has something to do with the connection, but I have to admit I'm a little nervous. My set is being delivered on Monday, so I'll have a better idea next week if this is a real problem or not.

Hey not all of us are 50 years old and have had a house for 20 years, ya know? My 27" came from my bedroom, where, sadly, a 123 screen would be pretty stupid ;)

Considering you have a dedicated room, why don't you put that 123 inch screen up in the family room and see what the wife says? :)

So Rob what kind of electronics and speakers are behind that big bad 123 inch screen?

Chris


Hey! Who are you calling a "50 year old"!!?!?!?! I have a decade to go before I get there! :)

I do understand about the realities of a screen/TV fitting into the space we have. The only point I was trying to make was that it is a very rare situation where a TV is returned because they feel they are too close to the screen (a viewing angle issue).

As for electronics and speakers: Parasound Halo C2 powered by a Sherbourn 7/2100 amp (200 watts per channel x 7 with 7 seperate transformers) and Monitor Audio Gold Reference speakers.

This is a bit concerning to me as well. I was watching the 50" at the store for a while yesterday. They were showing an HD cable feed of our local PBS affiliate. I'm sad to report that there was indeed quite a bit of macroblocking going on during fast movement. I hadn't noticed this the first time I checked out the set, but it could be because they were previously showing mostly slow moving images. I'm hoping it has something to do with the connection, but I have to admit I'm a little nervous. My set is being delivered on Monday, so I'll have a better idea next week if this is a real problem or not.

Dear Gweempose,

I'm sorry to hear that you're worried, but at least now I can feel reasonably assured that I'm not totally insane.

With fast moving images (e.g. Nascar racing), there was a significant amount of what I can only call microblocking - the image blurs slightly. The Sony store guy stated that they have a relatively weak signal strength on their Hi Def, but I don't know enough about the technical issues to be able to tell if this is related to the signal or to the processing - and of course it could be either in the cable receiver or in the TV. Who knows?

I'm surprised that other people aren't yet posting on what they think of the sets. Im going to visit the owner's thread and see if there are any specific issues there.

Good luck. For sure let me know if the issues are present after you've had a chance to tweak. My email is rahivictory@yahoo.com

Rahi

I went to the store yesterday to buy a stand for my 60". I had every intention of buying the Bello AVS-2663, but when I got to the store I discovered that they no longer carry this stand. This really pissed me off because they had the bloody thing when I was in there just a couple of days before. Since I wanted them to deliver the stand with the set on Monday, I had no choice but to quickly pick out something else they had in stock. I ended up going with the Bello AVS-2762. I really like the way it looks, but now that I have thought about it some more, I'm worried that the TV will be too big for it. Here are the specs (http://www.bello.com/images/products/AVS-2762DD.jpg) for the stand. I'm afraid the set will hang off the back of it a little because it is only 19" deep at the sides. What do you guys think?

Dear Gweempose,

I'm sorry to hear that you're worried, but at least now I can feel reasonably assured that I'm not totally insane.

With fast moving images (e.g. Nascar racing), there was a significant amount of what I can only call microblocking - the image blurs slightly. The Sony store guy stated that they have a relatively weak signal strength on their Hi Def, but I don't know enough about the technical issues to be able to tell if this is related to the signal or to the processing - and of course it could be either in the cable receiver or in the TV. Who knows?

I'm surprised that other people aren't yet posting on what they think of the sets. Im going to visit the owner's thread and see if there are any specific issues there.

Good luck. For sure let me know if the issues are present after you've had a chance to tweak. My email is rahivictory@yahoo.com

Rahi


If they had the feed on some other sets, how did they look?

I went to the store yesterday to buy a stand for my 60". I had every intention of buying the Bello AVS-2663, but when I got to the store I discovered that they no longer carry this stand. This really pissed me off because they had the bloody thing when I was in there just a couple of days before. Since I wanted them to deliver the stand with the set on Monday, I had no choice but to quickly pick out something else they had in stock. I ended up going with the Bello AVS-2762. I really like the way it looks, but now that I have thought about it some more, I'm worried that the TV will be too big for it. Here are the specs (http://www.bello.com/images/products/AVS-2762DD.jpg) for the stand. I'm afraid the set will hang off the back of it a little because it is only 19" deep at the sides. What do you guys think?

The Sony stand for this set is less than 18" deep (17.75 if I remember correctly).

If they had the feed on some other sets, how did they look?

They had the A10 and the 50" SXRD. To be honest, I didn't pay that much attention to the 50" or the A10. I was really interested mostly in the 60" SXRD. the few times I glanced at the A10, I have to admit that I thought the picture was impressive, but the SDe was clearly visible and I'm not a huge LCD fan.

On the SXRD owner's thread, I've read that other's have also noticed this. I actually think you can see it in the posted pics from Bombthroat, but it's impossible to tell from a picture if it's an artifact of the TV or the camera.

I'm happy for all the thrilled owner's out there, but the artifacts I saw were very distracting and would definetly make me hesitate on a set costing this much.

I used to watch my Sony VP 1271Q CRT projector with a Toshiba DVD running through a DVDO iScan. The image was always phenomenal at 100 inches. But obviously, it had to be dark or you couldn't see anything, and there was lot's of fan noise and maintaining the thing was painful. Installing it was an outright horror. So I guess I'm a bit picky because I've had a really terrific picture before. I want a new TV because my family room TV is on the fritz, and I want to go Hi Def, but I always do my homework before making purchases and I think there is more to find out about the new SXRDs before I put down a small fortune for one.

Rahi

gweempose: I had an A20 60" with is similiar to the SXRD. The new SXRD set will fit perfectly on that stande. The rear of the set is larger then the part of the set that sits on your stand. So there is no reason to have a stand that is the same width as the TV.

I'm happy for all the thrilled owner's out there, but the artifacts I saw were very distracting and would definetly make me hesitate on a set costing this much.
Rahi

Were the artifacts from a DVD or HDTV. I say this because artifacts are a fact of life on many HDTV sports broadcasts. I have a Sony KV36XBR400 ... I see terrible artifacts on most baseball broadcasts in HDTV whether from Sportsnet HD, TSN HD or WGN HD. Whenever there is fast camera panning the artifacts are horrible. Interestingly though I have yet to see any bad artifacts on the CFL HD games. And as everyone on this forum knows who say the last Summer Olympics in HDTV the artifacts on the diving were hard to watch!

I have also seen bad artifacts on some PBS broadcasts where there is alot of movement such as a flock of birds.

I get my HDTV from Bell ExpressVu, Star Choice and Shaw cable ... the artifacts are visible on all these providers .... they use too much compression which I understand causes artifacts.

720p broadcasts are far superior for the elimination of artifacts ... 1080i has the better resolution but you sometimes pay the price.

So, it doesn't matter whether you spend $5000 or $100,000 ... if you get your HDTV from a satellite or cable you are going to see artifacts. The only solution is to put up a BUD!

So, be careful not to always blame the television for the artifacts ... it may come from the source.

I agree with HiDefBob. Those artifacts often are attributable to the source. I don't see artifacts at all when I am watching HD OTA from local stations that have no subchannels. Unfortunately, only ABC and NBC in my area are like this. Sub-channeled HD stations and satellite all have artifacting, and it's just because the source material doesn't have sufficient bandwidth.

Were the artifacts from a DVD or HDTV. I say this because artifacts are a fact of life on many HDTV sports broadcasts. I have a Sony KV36XBR400 ... I see terrible artifacts on most baseball broadcasts in HDTV whether from Sportsnet HD, TSN HD or WGN HD. Whenever there is fast camera panning the artifacts are horrible. Interestingly though I have yet to see any bad artifacts on the CFL HD games. And as everyone on this forum knows who say the last Summer Olympics in HDTV the artifacts on the diving were hard to watch!

I have also seen bad artifacts on some PBS broadcasts where there is alot of movement such as a flock of birds.

I get my HDTV from Bell ExpressVu, Star Choice and Shaw cable ... the artifacts are visible on all these providers .... they use too much compression which I understand causes artifacts.

720p broadcasts are far superior for the elimination of artifacts ... 1080i has the better resolution but you sometimes pay the price.

So, it doesn't matter whether you spend $5000 or $100,000 ... if you get your HDTV from a satellite or cable you are going to see artifacts. The only solution is to put up a BUD!

So, be careful not to always blame the television for the artifacts ... it may come from the source.


The material I was watching was on a Hi Def Cogeco cable broadcast of TSN. As I've mentioned previously, it was a poker championship of some sort. I haven't blamed the TV at all. In fact, I think I've been careful to state that the artifact could be from the source or from the TV. I've asked on the owner's thread if any of the owner's see it.

However, the reality is that it is there. It wasn't as obvious with DVD sources, but I could still occasionally see it, so I'm not convinced that it is only the source.

As for the panning, it was very slow, but the image was the spotlight viewed head on, so it was extremely bright white. The macroblocking was hideous.

I'm definetly interested, but I like doing my homework before making any major expenditures. I think I'll wait a few weeks or months to find out what the JVC and Toshiba are like, and find out what all the early adopters think of their sets.
I think time will also reflect in substantially lower prices on these sets.

Rahi

Just talked to a Tweeter in the Boston area and they don't expect to see the 60" SXRD in their warehouse until Oct. 7. They might actually receive them by that date, but we'd be extremely luckily if one was on display next weekend.

Has anyone in the Boston area seen one of these sets anywhere?!?!

Hey! Who are you calling a "50 year old"!!?!?!?! I have a decade to go before I get there! :)

Fair enough -- I don't want to wish any of us any older than we need to be :D

As for electronics and speakers: Parasound Halo C2 powered by a Sherbourn 7/2100 amp (200 watts per channel x 7 with 7 seperate transformers) and Monitor Audio Gold Reference speakers.

Cool! Very nice stuff. Do you have the projector calibrated? (We might as well go off topic, this thread should die soon :) ) Are you looking at the SXRDs for a bedroom or something?

Chris

Fair enough -- I don't want to wish any of us any older than we need to be :D



Cool! Very nice stuff. Do you have the projector calibrated? (We might as well go off topic, this thread should die soon :) ) Are you looking at the SXRDs for a bedroom or something?

Chris

Actually, I am looking at the SXRD's for our family room. We still watch some TV in the family room, and the kids do the majority of their movie watching there.

HiFi House in Broomall, PA (near philadelphia) has the 50" on display. I was blown away. They'd already sold out first shipment, so I went to the local Sears and got it for $250 off MSRP today.....they have them in their warehouse and it gets delivered Wednesday!

I got the Sony SUGW12 stand with it, but my center speaker doesn't fit on the tiny top shelf of that....its bad practice to put a center speaker pretty much on the floor (i'd imagine) so I'm looking for a center speaker wall mount to hang over the tv...does anyone have any suggestions?

Circuit City now has the 50" SXRD listed on their website.

Prove it! "Lots of people" is pretty broad and I've been reading these posts for nearly a year and rarely have seen anyone post this occurring - it is the opposite effect as one's eyes adjust and the set shrinks after a few weeks. There have been polls done on this and your statement does not hold up to it's results from members on this forum that participated. Show us one ost where someone returned a set then bring on the "LOTS". :D
I agree, just look at the packed movie theaters!!

I got the Sony SUGW12 stand with it, but my center speaker doesn't fit on the tiny top shelf of that....its bad practice to put a center speaker pretty much on the floor (i'd imagine) so I'm looking for a center speaker wall mount to hang over the tv...does anyone have any suggestions?


What has worked for me best is placing my 65 lb center channel on a short stand that brings it up 8" off the floor. Due to the size of my cc, I basically had to make my own stand.

You can google "center channel stand" and come up with quite a few options that should work for normal people cc speakers.

You may get this set at or near sunshine's price from B&M stores. It depends on the location of the store. Meaning are they in need of business. I check sony's website for authorize internet dealers and they weren't listed. GOOD LUCK!


Could you give a link to where the autorized dealers list is, or point me in the right direction? I bought the 60" yesterday at tweeter for MSRP, and the salesman told me I had up to 60 days to find an authorized retailor and I could get a pricematch.

They said they would have the set in their warehouse on Oct 7th. I'm giddy. Now I need to find a stand. There is a catch. The tv is going in my bedroom, and for room layout/ sightline reasons it has to be a dresser too. I've got the feeling the dresser has to be no taller then 24" and must be black. I might try using two or three shelved end tables. Anyone have any suggestions?

This morning I went to two of the Sony Stores in Vancouver.

The Broadway store only has the 50” SXRD now … someone came in and bought the 60” set right off the showroom floor. The 50” is set up in a separate room on the recommended stand with a Sony DVD player where the room is fairly dark. They have HDTV equipment (probably Shaw Digital Cable) but it is not wired in yet.

The Oakridge store has the 60” set but it is very poorly displayed … it is sitting in the window facing out into the mall … so you have reflection in the window and the screen! They have the Qualia 006 in a darkened area at the back of the store. The Qualia is hooked up to HDTV via Shaw Digital Cable … I had the salesman put on the CBS HD broadcast of the football game … it looked amazing! But it was the Qualia, not the SXRD.

So, neither store is really set up properly to fully demo these televisions. I will check out these sets next week at Commercial Electronics were as I mentioned previously they have a professional hard disk system with a multitude of DVD’s, recorded HDTV and live HDTV. And setup where one can do a direct comparison between TV’s.

Availability – it is “tight”, but the salesman at the Broadway store could have got me one today. The Downtown Sony Store at Pacific Centre has a waiting list already.

So what were my overall impressions given these limitations? Somewhat mixed … generally disappointing.

Positives …

1. Blacks are indeed outstanding. I played my copy of “LOTR: Fellowship of the Ring”. Where black in the picture met the black bars there was a perfect blend … you could not see the edge of the black bar.
2. Colors over all were outstanding on both “LOTR: FOTR” and “Super Speedway”.
3. The picture detail was outstanding on “LOTR: FOTR”. You could see a lot of detail in the costumes.
4. The picture definitely had a Theatre quality to it … the film grain was noticeable.

Negatives

1. On the “Super Speedway” DVD when the cars were crossing the screen they did not do smoothly. There was a perceivable tiny jumps as the cars sped around the track..
2. I detected some banding during the initial opening of LOTR
3. While most of the greens looked amazing, there was one shade of bright green in the Shire of LOTR that looked very unnatural … and it REALLY bothered me. With some tuning (brightness and contrast in particular) this may be fixable.
4. While I could move well of to the side without a noticeable deterioration of picture, like all RPTV’s the quality dropped significantly as I stood up (the picture quickly darkened) … you really have to be at the right height when viewing this set. Any lower or higher and you will really notice it. Whether I could live with that is questionable. This is not a problem with Plasmas, but the current technology does not permit 1920x1080 below 65”.
5. I like the general appearance of the set, even with the “Dumbo ears”. However, I really do want detachable speakers.
6. I would like to test this set with a high quality external scaler, but with no 1080P input that is impossible. And you are limiting future developments with 1080P material (Blu-ray?).
7. Like the Qualia I suspect this set overscans (something I will have to confirm for myself). Revolution Home Theatre said in their review of the Qualia 006 using the DVD “Contact” (which I have and will use in a future evaluation), “Many scenes include lots of extras …With those extras lost to overscan, the composition changes to become a close-up of the action rather than a long shot”. The reviewer owns a Qualia 004 which showed the missing characters in the scenes. He concluded “... overscan should be standardized to zero. There is simply no excuse for it”. And I totally agree – there is no excuse!

By the way, when I evaluated the 50" I moved the chairs to the exact distance that my couch is from my television at home ... just under 7 feet. For me, that is most definitely not too close for this size of television. The room where the SXRD was being displayed was a little smaller than my living room with about the same lighting conditions in which I would watch a movie.

The bottom line … will I be buying a KDSR50XBR1? Most likely I will not … at least this first generation - it just does not meet my high standards. Many will buy and love these sets and have no problems with the minor deficiencies, but I doubt that I will be one of them. No television out there is perfect. Everyone has to make there own evaluation as to what imperfections you can and cannot live with.

For now I will continue to live with my 6 year old Sony 36XBR400 (since on average I change TV’s every 8-9 years … so it still has a couple of years of life). However, I am anxious to purchase a 50-55” HDTV. I am prepared to spend up to CA$7500 (tax included), so the price of the SXRD 50” or even 60” is not an issue.

HiDef Bob: You may like the newer Plasma sets from Panny. I have a 60" SXRD on order. I can't wait to get this set. I have a delivery date in 2 weeks. It sounds to me that the deal breaker for you is no 1080P inputs. That would have been a nice feature but it's not a deal breaker for me. 1080P players are not even out yet and until Netflixs starts renting 1080P discs I will not be interested. The first players will probably be priced over 1k and then we will have a shake out or format war. Hopefully Sony will do what they did with their SACD format and let other companies produce multi-format players. I was dumb enough to buy a Betamax and will never be dumb enough to do something like that again. So ther is much work to be done before 1080P is an issue. I would say we are 2 years away from that point and even then I doubt it will be main stream.

someone on the owner's thread says they are already having issues with....burn-in?! i don't see how its possible but they said they left some elmo dvd on the menu for 45 min and now the yellow letters are residual...is this even possible with this tech?

HiDef Bob: You may like the newer Plasma sets from Panny. I have a 60" SXRD on order. I can't wait to get this set. I have a delivery date in 2 weeks. It sounds to me that the deal breaker for you is no 1080P inputs. That would have been a nice feature but it's not a deal breaker for me. 1080P players are not even out yet and until Netflixs starts renting 1080P discs I will not be interested. The first players will probably be priced over 1k and then we will have a shake out or format war. Hopefully Sony will do what they did with their SACD format and let other companies produce multi-format players. I was dumb enough to buy a Betamax and will never be dumb enough to do something like that again. So ther is much work to be done before 1080P is an issue. I would say we are 2 years away from that point and even then I doubt it will be main stream.

While important, I think item #4 is the deal breaker and why I have never liked RPTV's, i.e you stand up and the picture darkens. I did not notice this with the Qualia 006, probably because it is so big.

What is the physical width of the 60" Panny. Because I would think it does not have speakers it could fit between my speakers. However, I would doubt it is 1920x1080. There is a 65" set coming out later this year that is and it is just under US$10,000 (first one), but it would be to wide.

The best plasma I personally have ever seen is the Farjouda - I had the opportunity to pick one up at dealer cost a couple of years ago, but it still too expensive!

As for burn in I am pretty careful. My Naim DVD player automatically goes to screen saver mode (logo moving around the screen) after a couple of minutes (and I think you can make that even shorter). I think most stations have got the message about logos on the screen ... most are fairly faint. But what about commercials ... 99% are still 4:3.

I still have my Sony SL-HF1000's (2) Betamax ... never regretted buying them ... up until HDTV they got 100's and 100's of hours of use. THE BEST VCR ever made until D-VHS came along - dual erase heads with editing accuracy within a couple of frame if you were careful because both machines edited exactly the way the pro recorders work. I used then with a Betamovie that recorded in BETA 1! I took a couple of training courses in video editing at the Sony Professional Video School in Los Angeles ... all expenses paid (I was in charge of all the video systems at my office at that time).

My concern about the HD-DVD vs Blu-ray battle is that we will not see any HDTV DVD's in the rental stores until there is a clear winner. I thought Blu-ray had sunk the final basket until Microsoft and Intel muddied the waters by supporting HD-DVD.

I'm not too concerned about the 1080P "problem" as I think 1080p won't be mainstream for a long, long time. 1080i/720p isn't even close to being mainstream let alone 1080p. A few hours of HD material on the major networks on the prime broadcast nights does not qualify as mainstream. The only time we'll possibly see 1080p being used will be from a computer, game console, and HD DVDs. Who knows if games will do 1080p (other than it being rumored). Who knows if HD DVDs will be 1080p (other than it being "technically possible"). HD-DVD and Blu-Ray can't even figure out how much space will be available on their discs for content nevermind what their standard output formats will be. Besides, by the time 1080p gets any serious foothold there will be a higher resolution display or format (ultra high def anyone?) that we'll all be anxiously awaiting just like there are already discs being developed that have a capacity that far exceeds HD-DVDs or Blu-Ray discs. With technology these days you have to be happy with what's available right now, otherwise you'll just be unhappy and waiting for what might or might not be in the future.

Pioneer Elite has a 61" Plasma set that is breathtaking. It's priced around 7-8k mail order. I saw the set in BB/Magnolia. I was very impressed. The set is 720P but the clarity is so good and the pixel structure is so small that I doubt you will see much of a difference between this set and a 1080P set. Panny has a 65" set as you pointed out but it's still close to 12k. If you can do 50" then the Panny Plasma is the way to go. I believe they can be had for around 3.5k. The BL and CR of the Panny is awesome as is the amount of detail. These sets are razor sharp. They look better than any RPTV that I have seen. I haven't seen the SXRD but I can't imagine that they look too much better.

someone on the owner's thread says they are already having issues with....burn-in?! i don't see how its possible but they said they left some elmo dvd on the menu for 45 min and now the yellow letters are residual...is this even possible with this tech?


How does image retention that goes away equate to "burn-in" a condition that's perminant?

I keep hearing the debate that these new XBR units are not going to have any 1080p inputs.. But isn't the iLink/Firewire going to be able to accept a 1080p signal therefore making these units compatible??? Or is that just BS?...

I saw the 50" and the 60" SONY SXRD today on sell in Atlanta at the grand opening of BrandsMART. Both were in a small theater type room instead of out on the floor and both-especially the 50" looked great. But those stupid speakers on the sides add about 10" to the width and are the deal breaker for me. BTW, BrandsMART had a very competitive price on both these sets and had both in stock.

I saw the 50" and the 60" SONY SXRD today on sell in Atlanta at the grand opening of BrandsMART. Both were in a small theater type room instead of out on the floor and both-especially the 50" looked great. But those stupid speakers on the sides add about 10" to the width and are the deal breaker for me. BTW, BrandsMART had a very competitive price on both these sets and had both in stock.

Like what price?

I don't think we are supposed to put prices on here but if I remember correctly they were about $1500 off of MSRP. Prices were as good or better than competing same size DLP 1080p models from Samsung and Mits

OK I was NOT aware about the prevention of pricing on these threads so if I'm breaking any rules then please excuse me and let me know so tht I can edit the post.......

But if your telling me that they are selling these units for anywhere around $2499 for the 50" XBR SONY then I'm gonna have to go ahead and call BS on that one...

I'd like to see that in writing........ I scoured both their FLA and GEO ads and saw NOTHING refferring to that deal anywhere... And I can pretty much quarantee that if a place like that was running that kind of price on one of the hottest TV's right now.. You would hear about it.........

Anyone verify this story???? If it's true I will DRIVE to FLA to get that kind of deal....

1. Blacks are indeed outstanding. I played my copy of “LOTR: Fellowship of the Ring”. Where black in the picture met the black bars there was a perfect blend … you could not see the edge of the black bar.

Not to nitpick, but... if you want to judge black levels, you can't compare the letterbox bars to blacks in the image, since the same black level deficiencies will be present in both. The best way to judge black levels is comparing the letterbox bars, which will represent the deepest blacks the set is capable of, to an external black object, like the bezel, except the bezels on these are glossy so you'd have to use something else.

2. I detected some banding during the initial opening of LOTR

I can see the same banding on my 32" CRT. It's not the display. The New Line logo with the faint glow around it has banding. If you use ROTK, you can see some REALLY obvious banding on the fade in to Smeagol's face looking at the worm at the very start of the film. I remember using these DVDs to audition sets when I first started shopping around earlier this year, and I saw this banding and was very disappointed. Then I went home and checked it on my direct-view set, and saw it there too. I never noticed it before until I saw it on a big-screen. Just goes to show that even the highest-quality DVDs have artifacts, so you have to know the material really well if you're using it to audition TVs.

Just goes to show that even the highest-quality DVDs have artifacts, so you have to know the material really well if you're using it to audition TVs.

That was in the back of my mind ... I am going to go back a check what I watched on the SXRD on my TV.

Thanks for the tips.

OK I was NOT aware about the prevention of pricing on these threads so if I'm breaking any rules then please excuse me and let me know so tht I can edit the post.......

But if your telling me that they are selling these units for anywhere around $2499 for the 50" XBR SONY then I'm gonna have to go ahead and call BS on that one...

I'd like to see that in writing........ I scoured both their FLA and GEO ads and saw NOTHING refferring to that deal anywhere... And I can pretty much quarantee that if a place like that was running that kind of price on one of the hottest TV's right now.. You would hear about it.........

Anyone verify this story???? If it's true I will DRIVE to FLA to get that kind of deal....

I thought the price was higher on the MSRP but if you go to the very first post in this thread and see the MSRP then the price I saw yesterday at the grand opening in Atlanta of this BrandsMart place (which I had never heard of but the store is huge) is $500 below instead of $1500 below MSRP.

Just got a call from Crutchfield...they are pushing back their date another week (yet again) because Sony is pushing the date back as to when they'd receive any sets. The woman that I spoke with did say that when they receive the sets they will ship out the same day, so at least they won't be sitting around in their warehouse for too long. She said that it would be Oct. 15th at the earliest for them to receive the TVs from Sony, and even that was a "best case" estimate. At this point I may start looking around at a local store since they seem to have a better handle on when they can deliver and offer at least a little flexibility on price and Crutchfield can't seem to even get a set in stock.

I saw the 50" and the 60" SONY SXRD today on sell in Atlanta at the grand opening of BrandsMART. Both were in a small theater type room instead of out on the floor and both-especially the 50" looked great. But those stupid speakers on the sides add about 10" to the width and are the deal breaker for me. BTW, BrandsMART had a very competitive price on both these sets and had both in stock.
Which one did you see it at? I live near the one at 285 and PIB.

Speaking of delivery dates, Sears was supposed to deliver my 50" Monday, but they have now pushed back to the 12th. My order is with their store in Palm Desert, CA, and I'm beginning to think we're at the end of the food chain. As has been pointed out, the SXRDs have now shown up on the CC website, but they are not available here. I would be more than a tad annoyed if CC gets them in before Sears fills my order.

Which one did you see it at? I live near the one at 285 and PIB.

That is where I saw them. They have them in a theater type room way back in the right rear corner. I had to ask 3 times to the salesmen in the store where these were until I found one who knew what I was talking about. They had both the 50" and the 60" on display with a HD feed of the AL-UF football game going. I thought the 50" looke slightly better side by side but that could have been due to settings on the Tv's which I didn't fool with. The 60" is HUGE on the width due to 10" of added speaker width.

I feel your pain.. I ordered in August thinking the big online places like Crutchfield would be first in line to get them ahead of places like Sears that aren't necessarily geared towards home theater. High end stores aren't even giving dates before November. I'm thinking that I probably won't see mine until the end of the month if mid-October is the optimistic estimate which is why I may look at local B&Ms now instead of waiting nearly another month since I'm not even really looking for a price break, just the TV from an authorized and reputable dealer!

Speaking of delivery dates, Sears was supposed to deliver my 50" Monday, but they have now pushed back to the 12th. My order is with their store in Palm Desert, CA, and I'm beginning to think we're at the end of the food chain. As has been pointed out, the SXRDs have now shown up on the CC website, but they are not available here. I would be more than a tad annoyed if CC gets them in before Sears fills my order.

Sears pushed my 60" from Monday to Friday the 7th. Considering the great price I got on it, I don't mind waiting. :confused:

I feel your pain.. I ordered in August thinking the big online places like Crutchfield would be first in line to get them ahead of places like Sears that aren't necessarily geared towards home theater. High end stores aren't even giving dates before November. I'm thinking that I probably won't see mine until the end of the month if mid-October is the optimistic estimate which is why I may look at local B&Ms now instead of waiting nearly another month since I'm not even really looking for a price break, just the TV from an authorized and reputable dealer!

Hello All

I, like others have been lurking for a long time. Thanks for all of the good info.
I was at a CC yesterday in Gilbert, AZ (burb of Phoenix). This is a brand new store, I figured they might be hungry for a big sale. I spoke to the store manager, he said they will not get a floor model and stock for several weeks. :( He also said, he was at a Corp meeting in Aug in Chicago where they were told that the mom & pop stores were going to be the first to get the SXRD's.

Les

That is where I saw them. They have them in a theater type room way back in the right rear corner. I had to ask 3 times to the salesmen in the store where these were until I found one who knew what I was talking about. They had both the 50" and the 60" on display with a HD feed of the AL-UF football game going. I thought the 50" looke slightly better side by side but that could have been due to settings on the Tv's which I didn't fool with. The 60" is HUGE on the width due to 10" of added speaker width.
Thanks, I will go give them a look. I still want to see the JVCs before pulling the trigger. If only the Sony did not have the dumbo ears...

BTW, Go Vols!

My wife won a $4k shopping spree at BB. Anyone hearing when they will begin stocking the 60" sets? (Very disappointed w/the local staff ... they tried to pass-off the olde stock as the "new" SXRD sets.)

-doug

I went to the store yesterday to buy a stand for my 60". I had every intention of buying the Bello AVS-2663, but when I got to the store I discovered that they no longer carry this stand. This really pissed me off because they had the bloody thing when I was in there just a couple of days before. Since I wanted them to deliver the stand with the set on Monday, I had no choice but to quickly pick out something else they had in stock. I ended up going with the Bello AVS-2762. I really like the way it looks, but now that I have thought about it some more, I'm worried that the TV will be too big for it. Here are the specs (http://www.bello.com/images/products/AVS-2762DD.jpg) for the stand. I'm afraid the set will hang off the back of it a little because it is only 19" deep at the sides. What do you guys think?

I would be concerned about the height, but this depends on how high and far back you are sitting when viewing the TV.

Best of luck.

-Arv

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6287724&&#post6287724

Jim,

It relevent when you are watching another source and you can still see a previous image more than 30 minutes later. Certainly the missus will not want to see Desperate Housewives with a Football score bar ghost running across their heads. It might not be a problem for everyone, but it is worth noting.

I apologize for including the about post in two other threads. It is an important consideration for anyone weighing the virtues and flaws of this set.

david

I got the Future Shop flyer today with the community newspaper. The 60" SXRD is featured on one of its pages. Listed at CA$6499.99.

I got the Future Shop flyer today with the community newspaper. The 60" SXRD is featured on one of its pages. Listed at CA$6499.99.


I talked to a sales person from that company today. I asked what happen to the unboxed 60" they had on the floor for three days and he said they sold it unboxed. He asked did I get a good deal on my 50" He said they offered 10% and the 36months equal paymenths no interest to the 60" buyer.

My wife won a $4k shopping spree at BB. Anyone hearing when they will begin stocking the 60" sets? (Very disappointed w/the local staff ... they tried to pass-off the olde stock as the "new" SXRD sets.)

-doug


Doug,

I was in BB last week (in Iowa), and they told me that the SXRD sets are now on their system. When asked about when they would be getting any in stock, they said it could be anywhere from 1 to 6 weeks. They just weren't sure.

Sorry I couldn't give you something more definitive.

SDL

That is where I saw them. They have them in a theater type room way back in the right rear corner. I had to ask 3 times to the salesmen in the store where these were until I found one who knew what I was talking about. They had both the 50" and the 60" on display with a HD feed of the AL-UF football game going. I thought the 50" looke slightly better side by side but that could have been due to settings on the Tv's which I didn't fool with. The 60" is HUGE on the width due to 10" of added speaker width.
Went and saw them today. I have to say that they are pretty impressive TVs. I played with the settings a little bit and took it out of "Vivid" (which I think is a little to bright for my tastes). I am not a connoisseur of black levels but it seemed to have all that one could want (the blacks really looked black). 66 inches wide for a 60 diagonal screen still puts me off though.
Interesting that BrandSmart would have the first ones here. I asked them if they were going to carry the new JVC LCOS (they do the 720p) and they said no.

PTWAT: How did the SXRD sets compare to the better Plasma sets. I have a Pioneer 42" plasma now and I'm very impressed with the set. I have a 60" SXRD on order so I'll be happy if it's equal in PQ?

[QUOTE=rainsux]My wife won a $4k shopping spree at BB. Anyone hearing when they will begin stocking the 60" sets? (Very disappointed w/the local staff ... they tried to pass-off the olde stock as the "new" SXRD sets.)

-doug[/QUOTE

In Jersey BB has Oct 18th listed in their computers.

I would be concerned about the height, but this depends on how high and far back you are sitting when viewing the TV.I will be sitting on a couch about 10 feet from the set. I don't think the stand will be too high, but I guess I'll find out tomorrow when the set is delivered.

drhill,

here's the link for sony online authorized dealers.

http://www.sonystyle.com/intershoproot/eCS/Store/en/lc/authorized_dealers/index.html

Has anyone seen this set and the Toshiba 1080P? can you please make some comments on the PQ of thw two?

Thanks

PTWAT: How did the SXRD sets compare to the better Plasma sets. I have a Pioneer 42" plasma now and I'm very impressed with the set. I have a 60" SXRD on order so I'll be happy if it's equal in PQ?
I have to admit that I have not paid a great deal of attention to plasmas except for a Panasonic that my wife really liked (don't know the model number). IMHO the picture was as good as the Panny but that is a comparison that was at least a week apart. If it were not for the speaker situation, I would pull the trigger on the Sony. I think that you would have to be very particular to find much wrong with it. There were two action/sport shows on, one from a satellite (football) and one off air of the Nascar race. I looked for and did not see the "mosquito noise" around edges during panning shots that are so evident on other TVs (especially the 720p JVCs). The color was a little too saturated for my liking on the "vivid" mode but was much more agreeable in the "pro" mode. Blacks still had some detail even mixed with bright sky. They did not have any content that was dark all over. One other aspect not discussed much here is how TVs handle NTSC and "lesser" content that is still important to me since there will be a lot of that around for a while. I thought the SXRD did a very good job with it and was "watchable" except for some degraded content on some of the off-air channels.
Interestingly (to me) was that even though the nascar race was HD, some of the shots (cameras) appeared to SD while the larger shots were HD.
The other thing that struck me was that the 60" does not look like a "big" picture even from about 6-8 feet and for my tastes a 70" would be more preferable.

My wife won a $4k shopping spree at BB. Anyone hearing when they will begin stocking the 60" sets? (Very disappointed w/the local staff ... they tried to pass-off the olde stock as the "new" SXRD sets.)

-doug
I was told by the CC guys that BB wasn't getting them until a month after they did due to some deal they made with SONY... Personally, I think it was all a load of BS... or some poor attempt at a sales pitch...

I'd like a 70" also but the Qualia is out of my league and I'm afraid of JVC QC issues. Samsung has a 65" DLP which is a nice set but the PQ was just OK. So the choice is PQ or impact. I'm going for PQ although the larger set is very tempting. I'm sure next year a 70" SXRD set will come out at about 5,500.00 Just my guess.

What's the word on Shipment Sony Style Pre-Orders?

I ordered my 60'' last tuesday. But they didn't give me a firm ship date. My Accompanying Sony Stand will be here tommorow, just without any TV!

I was told by the CC guys that BB wasn't getting them until a month after they did due to some deal they made with SONY... Personally, I think it was all a load of BS... or some poor attempt at a sales pitch...

I was at my local BB here in Columbus, Ohio and their computer had 10-16-05 for the 60" at least. They even had a price tag for the 60" SXRD on the show floor next to the 60" XS model they had there.

This morning I went to two of the Sony Stores in Vancouver.

The Broadway store only has the 50” SXRD now … someone came in and bought the 60” set right off the showroom floor. The 50” is set up in a separate room on the recommended stand with a Sony DVD player where the room is fairly dark. They have HDTV equipment (probably Shaw Digital Cable) but it is not wired in yet.

The Oakridge store has the 60” set but it is very poorly displayed … it is sitting in the window facing out into the mall … so you have reflection in the window and the screen! They have the Qualia 006 in a darkened area at the back of the store. The Qualia is hooked up to HDTV via Shaw Digital Cable … I had the salesman put on the CBS HD broadcast of the football game … it looked amazing! But it was the Qualia, not the SXRD.

So, neither store is really set up properly to fully demo these televisions. I will check out these sets next week at Commercial Electronics were as I mentioned previously they have a professional hard disk system with a multitude of DVD’s, recorded HDTV and live HDTV. And setup where one can do a direct comparison between TV’s.

Availability – it is “tight”, but the salesman at the Broadway store could have got me one today. The Downtown Sony Store at Pacific Centre has a waiting list already.

So what were my overall impressions given these limitations? Somewhat mixed … generally disappointing.

Positives …

1. Blacks are indeed outstanding. I played my copy of “LOTR: Fellowship of the Ring”. Where black in the picture met the black bars there was a perfect blend … you could not see the edge of the black bar.
2. Colors over all were outstanding on both “LOTR: FOTR” and “Super Speedway”.
3. The picture detail was outstanding on “LOTR: FOTR”. You could see a lot of detail in the costumes.
4. The picture definitely had a Theatre quality to it … the film grain was noticeable.

Negatives

1. On the “Super Speedway” DVD when the cars were crossing the screen they did not do smoothly. There was a perceivable tiny jumps as the cars sped around the track..
2. I detected some banding during the initial opening of LOTR
3. While most of the greens looked amazing, there was one shade of bright green in the Shire of LOTR that looked very unnatural … and it REALLY bothered me. With some tuning (brightness and contrast in particular) this may be fixable.
4. While I could move well of to the side without a noticeable deterioration of picture, like all RPTV’s the quality dropped significantly as I stood up (the picture quickly darkened) … you really have to be at the right height when viewing this set. Any lower or higher and you will really notice it. Whether I could live with that is questionable. This is not a problem with Plasmas, but the current technology does not permit 1920x1080 below 65”.
5. I like the general appearance of the set, even with the “Dumbo ears”. However, I really do want detachable speakers.
6. I would like to test this set with a high quality external scaler, but with no 1080P input that is impossible. And you are limiting future developments with 1080P material (Blu-ray?).
7. Like the Qualia I suspect this set overscans (something I will have to confirm for myself). Revolution Home Theatre said in their review of the Qualia 006 using the DVD “Contact” (which I have and will use in a future evaluation), “Many scenes include lots of extras …With those extras lost to overscan, the composition changes to become a close-up of the action rather than a long shot”. The reviewer owns a Qualia 004 which showed the missing characters in the scenes. He concluded “... overscan should be standardized to zero. There is simply no excuse for it”. And I totally agree – there is no excuse!

By the way, when I evaluated the 50" I moved the chairs to the exact distance that my couch is from my television at home ... just under 7 feet. For me, that is most definitely not too close for this size of television. The room where the SXRD was being displayed was a little smaller than my living room with about the same lighting conditions in which I would watch a movie.

The bottom line … will I be buying a KDSR50XBR1? Most likely I will not … at least this first generation - it just does not meet my high standards. Many will buy and love these sets and have no problems with the minor deficiencies, but I doubt that I will be one of them. No television out there is perfect. Everyone has to make there own evaluation as to what imperfections you can and cannot live with.

For now I will continue to live with my 6 year old Sony 36XBR400 (since on average I change TV’s every 8-9 years … so it still has a couple of years of life). However, I am anxious to purchase a 50-55” HDTV. I am prepared to spend up to CA$7500 (tax included), so the price of the SXRD 50” or even 60” is not an issue.
Negative #4: Isn't the A10, A20, Qualia 006, and SXRD all 3LCD? I did not notice a darkened picture on the A10 and A20 when I moved around at different heights as you see with the DLPs. I will be disappointed with the SXRD if the picture darkens when you stand because I assumed the 3LCDs did not have this problem even if RPTV?

Interestingly (to me) was that even though the nascar race was HD, some of the shots (cameras) appeared to SD while the larger shots were HD.

Most of the cameras in pit row are SD cameras, I guess handheld HD cameras are too expensive for that kind of duty. So most pit row shots, and interviews with crew and driver, are SD. Same with the on-car cameras, they're SD. The stationary cameras around the track are HD.

Hi Def bob what part of canada are you from. if you are in the toronto area I can get you a really good deal.

thIs also goes for anyone in toronto or greater toronto area. msg me and I can get you a deal through a sony dealer.


Space2001, please check your PM's, I sent you a message a couple of days ago...

I was told by the CC guys that BB wasn't getting them until a month after they did due to some deal they made with SONY... Personally, I think it was all a load of BS... or some poor attempt at a sales pitch...

Actually CC does have exclusivity with many Sony products in different ways. So personally, you're wrong.

Negative #4: Isn't the A10, A20, Qualia 006, and SXRD all 3LCD? I did not notice a darkened picture on the A10 and A20 when I moved around at different heights as you see with the DLPs. I will be disappointed with the SXRD if the picture darkens when you stand because I assumed the 3LCDs did not have this problem even if RPTV?

The A10 and A20 are 3 LCD (LCD panels in which there are 3)
The Qualia 006 and SXRD are SXRD (SXRD panels in which there are 3)

DLPs, SXRDs, LCDs all that a screen in which the brightest picture is when you are even with the TV. Vertical viewing angle doesn't adversely affect you unless you have one of these sets positioned where you are either severly looking up or looking down at it.

Actually CC does have exclusivity with many Sony products in different ways. So personally, you're wrong.

Um...If you look again, he was talking specifically about the SXRDs being "exclusive," not other products in the Sony line. Are you saying that CC has some sort of priority over BB with these sets?

Why are we so quick to belittle others? :(

Negative #4: Isn't the A10, A20, Qualia 006, and SXRD all 3LCD? I did not notice a darkened picture on the A10 and A20 when I moved around at different heights as you see with the DLPs. I will be disappointed with the SXRD if the picture darkens when you stand because I assumed the 3LCDs did not have this problem even if RPTV?

The manual shows that for "best picture" there is a 15 degree (both up and down, therefore 30 degrees total) off axis vertical limit. That's significantly better than my four year old Mitsubishi RPTV. Related information: manual also shows a 60 degree off axis horizontal limit for the best picture.

I was at one of my local Best Buys (Natick, MA) and next to the 3LCD floor models was a sign that said to check out the Magnolia section to see the new sets with SXRD technology. Sweet!! Of course, when I got to the Magnolia section, there were no SXRD sets on display; in fact, there were no Sony sets whatsoever on display.

The helpful sales guy said he didn't know when they were coming, but that it would be around Thanksgiving. He did say that the 70" models came out 2 months ago. :rolleyes:

Sigh, still waiting to see one of these.

Yeah good luck seeing one in the northeast. I haven't yet. Seems there are very limited locations getting these things even to see them at this point. By the way what is the Magnolia section? All the Best Buys here in Connecticut don't have a Magnolia section at least not that I can tell.

I work for a magnolia in a bb at we should be getting them shortly. prob within the next couple weeks and i can't wait. Something else that's cool is now we're set up on our new mitsubishi's 1080p dlp's with a little hard drive outputting a 1080p demo loop playing on them through firewire. very cool but somehow it looks better on the samsung 1080p's

OK so can someone tell me what a Magnolia is? I have never seen one.

I got the Future Shop flyer today with the community newspaper. The 60" SXRD is featured on one of its pages. Listed at CA$6499.99.

Thay have one on display at FS here in Ottawa at the Merivale Rd. store. My wife was impressed even with the lousy FS HD feed. She wasn't impressed with the price tag, though. We'll have a look at the 1080p JVC's before we make up our minds.

Actually CC does have exclusivity with many Sony products in different ways. So personally, you're wrong.

You work there and can show legal proof of what you say, so feel free to PM it to me.... Otherwise I suggest that you be a little more open to an opinion there snatch......

BTW if they are exclusive with the XBR's then why does Best Buy have them? I went there immediately after CC and they have one on the floor... So who's telling the lie?

OK so can someone tell me what a Magnolia is? I have never seen one.
Magnolia Hi-Fi. I know they are in the Pacific NW, but I don't know how widespread they are through the whole U.S.

OK thanks that might explain why I've never seen one here in CT. Wrong side of the country!

I work for a magnolia in a bb at we should be getting them shortly. prob within the next couple weeks and i can't wait. Something else that's cool is now we're set up on our new mitsubishi's 1080p dlp's with a little hard drive outputting a 1080p demo loop playing on them through firewire. very cool but somehow it looks better on the samsung 1080p's

Can you give us the model #'s of the Samsung & Mitsubishi 1080p's

jdanon:

My local Best Buy in Danvers, MA has a Magnolia section.

The manual shows that for "best picture" there is a 15 degree (both up and down, therefore 30 degrees total) off axis vertical limit. That's significantly better than my four year old Mitsubishi RPTV. Related information: manual also shows a 60 degree off axis horizontal limit for the best picture.
For this angled-challenged person, approximately how much vertical distance in inches would the picture start to fade on a 60" screen at 10 feet? What I'm getting at you don't always sit watching a football game, you get up for refreshments, use the bathroom, etc. will the picture fade as you walk in and out of the room or around tv?

Well assuming my knowledge of high school trigonometry doesn't fail me here, I think you can be off-axis by 1 ft. in height while still being within 15 degrees of axis for every 3.73 ft. of distance from the TV. So, if I'm right, if you're 10 ft. away from the TV, you can change your height by 2.67 ft. (distance of 10 ft. multiplied by the tangent of 15 degrees) and still be within the 15 degrees. I'm assuming of course that when you're sitting you are viewing it from dead on (no angle). You can't really count the vertical off axis as 30 degrees unless you were viewing it from below axis and then you stand up in which case you'd have the 15 degrees plus whatever angle you are viewing the TV below axis.

For this angled-challenged person, approximately how much vertical distance in inches would the picture start to fade on a 60" screen at 10 feet? What I'm getting at you don't always sit watching a football game, you get up for refreshments, use the bathroom, etc. will the picture fade as you walk in and out of the room or around tv?

Its been around around 45 years since my last Trig class. So, I can't give an exact answer. However, if it were 45 degrees, you could rise as high above the middle of the tv as your distance from the screen. Since it is 15 degrees, it would seem to indicate that you could rise 1/3 as high above the center of the screen as the distance from the screen. Therefore, at 10 feet , I would "guesstimate" that you could rise about 3.3 feet above the center of the screen. With my setup, the center of the screen will be 45 inches from the floor. Add another 40 inches (3.3 feet) and you will be okay standing at your chair unless you are taller than 85" (7' 1").

Now if any math majors, or high school kids currently taking trig, want to correct my above logic; go for it!

Just got a call from my loal CC where I preordered it... It is here and will be delivered tomorrow... so I am now getting excited...

However, I still have not heard whether the following statement can be verified..

The fact remains that the ONLY way to get a TRUE 1080p signal is to have a firewire input on your 1920 x 1080 TV... But doesn't the XBR's have this input called the "iLink" that is essentially a firewire input therefore meaning that they ARE indeed a 1080p unit? Can anyone verify this? Why make the claim that these TV's are such high lines of resolution if they don't use it on a progressive signal?

Just read Jdanon's response. He at least remembered that the "tangent" was the applicable number. His numbers would mean 77' with my screen and your 10 foot distance (as opposed to my 85"). Either way, it's much better than my 4 year old Mitsubishi RPTV.

Just got a call from my loal CC where I preordered it... It is here and will be delivered tomorrow... so I am now getting excited...

However, I still have not heard whether the following statement can be verified..

The fact remains that the ONLY way to get a TRUE 1080p signal is to have a firewire input on your 1920 x 1080 TV... But doesn't the XBR's have this input called the "iLink" that is essentially a firewire input therefore meaning that they ARE indeed a 1080p unit? Can anyone verify this? Why make the claim that these TV's are such high lines of resolution if they don't use it on a progressive signal?

The set converts the incoming signal to 1920x1080 progressive. That is the set's only/native resolution.

It does have an iLink input. However, there is currently nothing on the market that outputs a native 1080p signal to send over the iLink or anything else. Even the soon to be released Hi def DVD players, if they do output 1080p, will probably do so only over HDMI; because the movie makes won't consider the encryption used over i LInk to be secure enough.

But, a good 1080i deinterlaced by the set to 1080p (if the set does a good job) should look like the "real thing".

That's my opinion anyway.

OK so can someone tell me what a Magnolia is? I have never seen one.Check out this article (http://www.nbc4.com/technology/4571191/detail.html).

The set converts the incoming signal to 1920x1080 progressive. That is the set's only/native resolution.

It does have an iLink input. However, there is currently nothing on the market that outputs a native 1080p signal to send over the iLink or anything else. Even the soon to be released Hi def DVD players, if they do output 1080p, will probably do so only over HDMI; because the movie makes won't consider the encryption used over i LInk to be secure enough.

But, a good 1080i deinterlaced by the set to 1080p (if the set does a good job) should look like the "real thing".

That's my opinion anyway.

Yes, but going from 1080i to 1080p is still an upconversion and not a true 1080p signal correct? So am I to assume that the only way that we are going to get a PURE 1080p signal is through the HDMI? If not there, where else would that signal input into this TV? I understand that this unit upconverts the signal to a 1080p, but I was just wondering if there is a way to get it without conversion...

As an example.. The new PS3 or XBOX360 comes out and is 1080p compatible... where do you plug it into the TV to get a TRUE 1080p signal that's NOT upconverted? Just wondering so I know how to properely install them.....

Yes, but going from 1080i to 1080p is still an upconversion and not a true 1080p signal correct? So am I to assume that the only way that we are going to get a PURE 1080p signal is through the HDMI? If not there, where else would that signal input into this TV?

As an example.. The new PS3 or XBOX360 comes out and is 1080p compatible... where do you plug it into the TV to get 1080p? Just wondering so I know how to properely install them.....
Bad example. Neither of those are certainly going to output 1080p. The Xbox will definitely not output 1080p, and the PS3 is just smoke and mirrors at this point. What it will actually do is still "subject to change."

Bad example. Neither of those are certainly going to output 1080p. The Xbox will definitely not output 1080p, and the PS3 is just smoke and mirrors at this point. What it will actually do is still "subject to change."

Good point... I'm just trying to be prepared for the next gen gaming...

I think you'll end up using 720p via HDMI as the purest input for next-gaming. I bet that most of the games will be designed around this resolution, anyway. It may be possible to get a HTPC to use 1080p via VGA with the right timings, but that is still up in the air.

I think you'll end up using 720p via HDMI as the purest input for next-gaming. I bet that most of the games will be designed around this resolution, anyway. It may be possible to get a HTPC to use 1080p via VGA with the right timings, but that is still up in the air.

Well from everything that I've read the report is that the new PS3 is going to be 1080p ... but you are right... I'm sure there's alot of speculation about it....

However the OFFICIAL SONY press release INCLUDES a 1080p in it's output list..

Official SONY Playstation 3 release (http://www.us.playstation.com/PressReleases.aspx?id=279)

Plus... XBOX confirms a 1080i signal but NO 1080p...

Official XBOX360 Spec Sheet (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/factsheet.htm)

Crutchfield has started shipping the Sony SXRD 60" today!

Yeah good luck seeing one in the northeast. I haven't yet. Seems there are very limited locations getting these things even to see them at this point. By the way what is the Magnolia section? All the Best Buys here in Connecticut don't have a Magnolia section at least not that I can tell.

if you're near the Philly area, HiFi House in Broomall, PA has a 50" on display. Saw one this morning and I would say overall it was an incredible picture. Deep blacks, rich colors and very smooth. Best picture in the store, including a Qualia 70". Only bad thing I saw was some skin tones had a strange pink color (too much red?) most likely just needs some tweaking.

I have the dimensions of the 50" and 60" (KDS-RxxXBR1) from the manual. Now that a few of you have this set could please give me the dimensions of just the screen for a custom mounting (W x H)?

Thank you,
KP

From a gaming standpoint 720p/60 is probably going to be better than 1080i. It's hard to say until I see it on the TV, though. :)

It would be really cool if the PS3 actually lives up to the hype, but after the PS2 failed to do so, I have my doubts. I'm watching it with reservations. If anything, I'll probably buy one just for the fact that it will probably be the cheapest Blu-ray player around.

at our magnolia we have the mitsu 62628 and the samsungs 68 series, all sizes

Yes, but going from 1080i to 1080p is still an upconversion and not a true 1080p signal correct? So am I to assume that the only way that we are going to get a PURE 1080p signal is through the HDMI? If not there, where else would that signal input into this TV? I understand that this unit upconverts the signal to a 1080p, but I was just wondering if there is a way to get it without conversion...

As an example.. The new PS3 or XBOX360 comes out and is 1080p compatible... where do you plug it into the TV to get a TRUE 1080p signal that's NOT upconverted? Just wondering so I know how to properely install them.....

Bottom line: You're probably never going to input any 1080p into these current SXRD's or the current Qualias. They may be capable of taking 1080p via iLink; but that isn't known for sure, and there is currently nothing we know of being developed that would send 1080p over iLink.

Well from everything that I've read the report is that the new PS3 is going to be 1080p ... but you are right... I'm sure there's alot of speculation about it....

However the OFFICIAL SONY press release INCLUDES a 1080p in it's output list..

Official SONY Playstation 3 release (http://www.us.playstation.com/PressReleases.aspx?id=279)

[/URL]

That spec sheet is outdated. Sony has listed under Ethernet...

(10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x 3
(input x 1 + output x 2)

It was supposed to act as a router. That has already been dropped.

I will believe the PS3 specs when the machine is released.

I will believe the PS3 specs when the machine is released.
That is a good approach. The PS3 is already way behind schedule, and some industry pundits are wondering if it will even make it out for the '06 holiday season.

Has anyone seen either the 50" or 60" in the Philly Metro area?

Thanks

Has anyone seen either the 50" or 60" in the Philly Metro area?

Thanks The HiFi House in Broomall, PA set up their 50" SXRD on Friday. That's the only confirmed place to have a set on display in the Delaware Valley.

Dear All,

Just came back from Future Shop Windsor, where they received and set up the 60" with a hi Def looped feed.

I tweaked the picture considerably in Pro mode, actually decreased sharpness a bit, turned down the brightness and picture settings and shut off all of the extra automatic adjustment functions that I could recognize as being pertinent.

I watched the loop which included some interesting scenery and a few sports images etc. Overall the image was very impressive, with rich, saturated colours, great depth and excellent detail and clarity. I still think that there are subtle artifacts around the edges of things, with a bit of blurring or shimmering that is reasonably evident even at a distance, but this could partly be the same feed being sent to three million Future Shop TVs at the same time! I did not see any obvious macroblocking this time although the material wasn't right for it either, based on my previous experience. However, the artifacts seemed less distracting this time, even though I was actively looking for them. Compared to the A10 right next to it, the colours were better, there was no SDE at all, and black levels were significantly better, but I actually thought the image on the A10 was a bit sharper. My wife felt the same. I had the sharpness turned down, so when I turned it up it looked more similar to the A10. I think the A10 was in the standard mode, for comparison's sake.

We hooked up an upconverting LG DVD player via HDMI and watched LOTR FOTR. the image was phenomenal. It looked exactly like film. Black level detail is beyond reproach, such as in the Mines of Moria, or the fight with the Balrog. Rivendell looked like you could reach out and touch it. The architectural details were very well rendered and made the scenery even more impressive to watch. I could still see very subtle shimmering or blurring at the edges of lines (e.g. Gandalf's grey hairs in the sunlight when he's with Frodo as Frodo wakes up), or along the edges of the snow when they are walking across the snowcapped mountains just before Moria. Having said that, when Frodo drops the ring in the snow, the contrast and detail were incredible. You can actually make out individual clumps and even flakes of snow.

I didn't see any gross motion artifacts with this movie and there was certainly never any macroblocking.

I'm going to go back to the Sony store tomorrow and check out the unit on a hi def cable feed again. Although the artifacts are still there, I think that proper tweaking of the TV can minimize them to an acceptable level. This TV has a lot of tweakability. I don't think any of the dealers including the Sony Stores, have any idea how to properly set this thing up.

I'll be very interested to see what Bombthroat ends up saying after calibrating his unit. The FutureShop 36 month payment plan stops on Thursday, so I may end up buying it, if the image retention isn't an issue and the artifacts remain minimal.

Black level detail is beyond reproach, such as in the Mines of Moria, or the fight with the Balrog. Rivendell looked like you could reach out and touch it. The architectural details were very well rendered and made the scenery even more impressive to watch.

Thats good to hear .... the one I saw on Fry's was next to the mitsu 1080p. The black crush was so bad ... I guess anything below 30 IRE was just black. I didn't try to fiddle around with the settings ...

Did you happen to compare to a dlp ?

...if it were 45 degrees, you could rise as high above the middle of the tv as your distance from the screen. Since it is 15 degrees, it would seem to indicate that you could rise 1/3 as high above the center of the screen as the distance from the screen.

It doesn't work that way. There isn't a linear relationship between the angle of a right triangle and any given leg.

y=viewing distance * tan(angle), with y as the distance above "direct view"

So at 10 feet you can go 10*tan(15) = 2.7 ft, or about 2 feet 8 inches.

Of course, that applies to any point on the screen, so realistically you're already using some of that "buffer zone" even when watching the TV head-on. If you're line of sight is dead center, the outer edges of the screen will be in that 15 degree zone already. So, depending on how big your TV is, you have even less than the amount above if you want to stay within 15 degrees of EVERY PART of the picture.

Make sense?

Dear All,

Just came back from Future Shop Windsor, where they received and set up the 60" with a hi Def looped feed.

...snip....

Very good review.

Does the fine line twitering look like deinterlacing artifacts??

A good test would be the DVE images where they pan a downtown area with lots of building and windows.

Thats good to hear .... the one I saw on Fry's was next to the mitsu 1080p. The black crush was so bad ... I guess anything below 30 IRE was just black. I didn't try to fiddle around with the settings ...

Did you happen to compare to a dlp ?

The only DLP I've ever seen that was even worthy of considering was the most recent Toshiba 85 series (I don't think we got the 95 series in Canada, but same innards anyhow). Although, I didn't do head to head comparisons I know the Toshiba fairly well and the Sony was much more film-like. In fact, it was almost exactly like being at the cinema. When watching the incredibles there were so many details I had never noticed before, like dirt on Dash's knees, and in LOTR you could make out smudges on the faces of the hobbits from grime and dirt. The one significant drawback of the set, that I forgot to mention in my post, is that the screen is very reflective. If you have a bright room, you will have a lot of reflection in the screen.

I think the new Toshiba 1080p set should be very impressive and I think it will give the Sony a run for it's money, especially considering that it will likely be at least two thousand dollars less. I'm recommending it seriously to my parents, sight unseen.

Nevertheless, the limitations of DLP are well known and I think that the LCoS are probably the way to go for the time being. The new SED technology looks promising as well, but seeing that introductory prices are expected around $10,000, it doesn't make sense for me since I'd be spending all my time in the OR trying to make money to pay for a set that I'm never home to watch.

Very good review.

Does the fine line twitering look like deinterlacing artifacts??

A good test would be the DVE images where they pan a downtown area with lots of building and windows.

Sorry, I'm not technically savvy enough to know what deinterlacing artifact is. Is that like when they pan across an image that has a straight line and the image looks jagged? If so, this was similar but not exactly the same as what I saw. I can only describe it as looking a bit blurred at the edges of images. IF you get right up to the screen it becomes very obvious. The further away the less obvious it is. When I was initially watching I stood about 8 feet away and could see it a fair bit, but when I stood around 11 feet away it was less apparent.

Rahi

Just to chime in here, the 50 incher is now listed on the Goodguys website. There was also a very large Fry's ad for the SXRD's in todays San Jose Mercury newspaper. Still haven't seen one of these babies in person yet, hopefully I will get to soon.

It doesn't work that way. There isn't a linear relationship between the angle of a right triangle and any given leg.

y=viewing distance * tan(angle), with y as the distance above "direct view"

So at 10 feet you can go 10*tan(15) = 2.7 ft, or about 2 feet 8 inches.

Of course, that applies to any point on the screen, so realistically you're already using some of that "buffer zone" even when watching the TV head-on. If you're line of sight is dead center, the outer edges of the screen will be in that 15 degree zone already. So, depending on how big your TV is, you have even less than the amount above if you want to stay within 15 degrees of EVERY PART of the picture.

Make sense?

Thanks. My "SWAG" was definitely off by 8 inches. Therefore, at ten feet you would have to be taller than around 6 foot 5 inches to be outside 15 degrees for the center of the screen. I agree with what you said about the bottom. If you want perfect vision for the bottom of the screen; you better be shorter or step back a foot or two. By the way, Sony defines "less than 15 degrees" as required for the best picture. For my 4 year old Mitsubishi RPTV, I'll bet it's closer to 5 degrees.

Has anyone who has seen thse sets in stores, had the chance to compare them to the Toshiba 1080p DLP?

I know the JVC is probably the main competitor, but I'd love to know what others think of the Toshiba in direct comparison to the SXRDs. We haven't received the Toshiba 1080p DLPs in Canada as far as I can tell, yet.

Has anyone who has seen thse sets in stores, had the chance to compare them to the Toshiba 1080p DLP?

I know the JVC is probably the main competitor, but I'd love to know what others think of the Toshiba in direct comparison to the SXRDs. We haven't received the Toshiba 1080p DLPs in Canada as far as I can tell, yet.

I've not seen toshiba 1080p ... but I doubt it will be much better than Samsung / Mitsu 1080p.

Because of the black crush I described earlier, I can't really say for sure how a properly ajdusted (not talking about calibrated) set would look ... but I'd take the mitsu anyday over the sony. BTW, I started noticing the black crush only because the mitsu was next to it for comparison ...

I've not seen toshiba 1080p ... but I doubt it will be much better than Samsung / Mitsu 1080p.

Because of the black crush I described earlier, I can't really say for sure how a properly ajdusted (not talking about calibrated) set would look ... but I'd take the mitsu anyday over the sony. BTW, I started noticing the black crush only because the mitsu was next to it for comparison ...

Just to clarify - Are you saying that the Mitsu DLP has better black levels and shadow detail than the Sony?

I haven't seen the Mitsu DLPs but I find the idea that any DLP would have better black levels than the Sony to be a little hard to swallow. Certainly the most recent Toshiba, had great black levels, but not the kind of subtle gradations of black that the Sony is capable of.

Check out LOTR for detailed comparisons.

I'll keep my eye open for the Tosh if I hear enough people suggest it's picture is as good as the Sony's.

Sorry, I'm not technically savvy enough to know what deinterlacing artifact is. Is that like when they pan across an image that has a straight line and the image looks jagged? If so, this was similar but not exactly the same as what I saw. I can only describe it as looking a bit blurred at the edges of images. IF you get right up to the screen it becomes very obvious. The further away the less obvious it is. When I was initially watching I stood about 8 feet away and could see it a fair bit, but when I stood around 11 feet away it was less apparent.

Rahi

They are actually two or three things you can look for.

With close parallel lines, if there appears to be somekind of noise between the lines.

On pan that include diagonal lines, if you see jaggies.(stairsteps)

The third is when there is continous movement during movies, the movement should appear smooth. Sometimes with less than adequate delinterlacing, movement will appear to occassionally hesistate.

Just to clarify - Are you saying that the Mitsu DLP has better black levels and shadow detail than the Sony?

I haven't seen the Mitsu DLPs but I find the idea that any DLP would have better black levels than the Sony to be a little hard to swallow. Certainly the most recent Toshiba, had great black levels, but not the kind of subtle gradations of black that the Sony is capable of.

Check out LOTR for detailed comparisons.

I'll keep my eye open for the Tosh if I hear enough people suggest it's picture is as good as the Sony's.


I haven't yet seen the Toshiba or HP DLPs, which are rated as the two best 1080P DLPs this year, but i doubt either will have a PQ equal to the SXRD's or JVC D-ILA's both of which were said by virtually every non-biased, objective professional to be a couple of levels above the best of the DLPs at Cedia. I have now seen the SXRDs and have seen the JVC D-ILA's that were the best non-Qualia Microdisplay at the CES, and neither the Mitsubishi nor Samsung 1080P's, which i have also spent some time viewing can hold a candle to either. You are correct in that the there is no comparison in black levels, or picture detail betwen the SXRD and the Mits or Sammy.

They are actually two or three things you can look for.

With close parallel lines, if there appears to be somekind of noise between the lines.

On pan that include diagonal lines, if you see jaggies.(stairsteps)

The third is when there is continous movement during movies, the movement should appear smooth. Sometimes with less than adequate delinterlacing, movement will appear to occassionally hesistate.

Jim,

I have definetly seen some sort of noise at the edge of lines. Not necessarily between lines though. If you look in Gandalf's hair when he is speaking to Frodo in Rivendell, just as Frodo wakes up, the sun shines through Gandalf's hair. At the edges of the hairs, there is some noise, but I didn't necessarily only see it between the hairs.

I forgot to take Gladiator or Armageddon for the Jaggies torture testing, but now that you brought it up, I will tomorrow. OF course, this will depend as much on the DVD player as it does on the TV, if I am not mistaken.

I definetly saw some blurring, with movement of Nascar cars, but I think it was likely the source, not the TV. However, I cannot confirm that this is the case. And Future Shop was only using a loop of HD material so it was hard to guage a lot of problems from the material they were using.

My dad and I know a manager at Future Shop who gives us great deals. He's going to look into prices for me tomorrow. I'm still going to try and resist the urge
to buy until I've seen the Tosh and upcoming JVC, but if the deal is good enough I may just bite.

my 60'' SXRD, ordered from SonyStyle.com has just shipped from Pennsyvania. :D

I haven't yet seen the Toshiba or HP DLPs, which are rated as the two best 1080P DLPs this year, but i doubt either will have a PQ equal to the SXRD's or JVC D-ILA's both of which were said by virtually every non-biased, objective professional to be a couple of levels above the best of the DLPs at Cedia. I have now seen the SXRDs and have seen the JVC D-ILA's that were the best non-Qualia Microdisplay at the CES, and neither the Mitsubishi nor Samsung 1080P's, which i have also spent some time viewing can hold a candle to either. You are correct in that the there is no comparison in black levels, or picture detail betwen the SXRD and the Mits or Sammy.

I strongly disagree. I went out today to look for a new TV. I still do not have any kind of HDTV but have been ogling plasmas for a few years now. Always disliked the DLP picture quality. Today I saw a 50 in. Sony SXRD and a 52 in. Mits 1080 DLP. Both of them were stunning and blew away the Pioneer Elite plasma. Between the Sony and the Mits, it was a close call. Black levels were similar. But I'd have to give the edge to the Mits and it was also 10% less money. Havn't seen the JVC yet.

I strongly disagree. I went out today to look for a new TV. I still do not have any kind of HDTV but have been ogling plasmas for a few years now. Always disliked the DLP picture quality. Today I saw a 50 in. Sony SXRD and a 52 in. Mits 1080 DLP. Both of them were stunning and blew away the Pioneer Elite plasma. Between the Sony and the Mits, it was a close call. Black levels were similar. But I'd have to give the edge to the Mits and it was also 10% less money. Havn't seen the JVC yet.

What exactly was it that made you conclude that they "Blew away the Pioneer Elite plasma"?

Whe you guys talked about the Tosh 1080p...are you referring to the 56HM195 or the 195 series?

I recently saw this set at Sears and thought that it has very nice PQ. definitely much better than all the 720p around it. unfortunately, there were no 1080p sets for me to compare with the Tosh

What exactly was it that made you conclude that they "Blew away the Pioneer Elite plasma"?

Clearer picture, sharper picture, better black levels, more vibrant colors (I know that the pioneer punchy colors are hard to beat). I saw them at a high-end A/V store, and they showed a INHD Ohio State football game with the halftime show. For years I thought that nothing could beat the pioneer and Panny plasmas. Until now.