Sony SXRD 50" and 60" - Oct/Nov [Text View] - Page 21

gazelle

10-04-05, 11:18 AM

So, how about you post detailed reviews of the SXRDs and the JVC D-ILAs that you've now seen?

I posted some thoughts on the JVC D-ILA 1080P back in January after the CES, but would rather wait and see what the production model looks like now. It should be even better with the newer chip, better Interlacer/Scaler, and better electronics.

As you know, i did spend a little time with a 60" Sony SXRD and hope to spend more time later this week. My initial thoughts, though certainly only preliminary:

I've just had the opportunity to fool around with a 60" for about an hour and a half, so any opinion i have is very preliminary. Hopefully i'll be spending more time with the SXRD's later this week. Overall i thought that they are very impressive. Black levels are amazing. Better than i've seen on any microdisplay. Colors are vibrant. Detail in shaded area also is amazing. They certainly have a winner here. Unfortunately, the set was so good that i spent most of my time looking for defects and flaws. I practically put my nose on the screen and couldn't see any pixels or SDE. The fill rate is a certainly a big factor here. I tried to force myself to focus on the screen and not the picture to see SSE or "sparkles". You can certainly do this, but it wasn't a big drawback. I could do the same on any similar screen. The viewing angles were very good. They seem to be better than any DLP i've seen and even better than the Qualia 006, both horizontally and vertically. "Pro" mode looked good OOTB with little or no tweaking. I'd love to use an AVIA or DVE disc on one of these. I tried really crappy and not so crappy SD feeds and it lived up to the Sony Video processing rep: provided a very watchable, fairly artifact-free picture on anything i tried. You probably see the same on SD feeds on your A10. Very decent. I wasted some time cranking up settings, trying to duplicate any retention with Black Bars, Stock tickers, Cartoon stills. Couldn't do it. Not even a second or two of retention changing channels, resolutions, anything. The one report of this is either a faulty set or just BS. Sorry i wasted so much of my limited time with this. I put my ear very close all around the set trying to discern any unusual noise levels, but it seemed pretty quiet. Hard to tell, though. It wasn't set up under ideal conditions. I was in a fairly noisy Warehouse. One flaw that stood out in my mind was that glossy bezel. definitely picked up reflections in a fairly bright surrounding. I'd like to spend some time testing it on some problem DVDs and observing how it handles sports and fast motion. I don't see how anyone could say it looked "soft". If anything, it may be a flaw that it looks too sharp. I'd like to fool around with the settings some more next time. It's an amazing picture, probably better than the Qualia, although that's not a fair comparison, it's a newer chip and electronics and, of course, you can't fairly compare a 60" screen with a 70" screen. I'm not sure how good this set can be made to look in a better setting with a little tweaking, but i have a feeling everything will be measured against this set for a while. I would love to see this set side by side with the JVC D-ILA 1080P. I saw the D-ILA at the CES in January and was very impressed, but that was under ideal conditions and it's been 9 months since i've seen it, so i can't legitimately make a comparison. I think the SXRD is better, but it's the one i've seen last. I hope to do some more testing in better surroundings later this week without 20-30 warehouse staff oohing and aahing and jaw-dropping behind me - and hissing and booing as i was trying to make the set look bad while they were trying to enjoy it and compare it to some others. I'm sure they thought i was nuts and were very glad when i left. I thought they might lynch me if i fooled around with the SXRD much longer :o

dsaumkc

10-04-05, 12:23 PM

Great first impression. Thanks for the update.

I can't wait. Just got the call that my TV arrived at the house... I may have to call in sick.. (cough, cough) after lunch....

Gary_Kreie

10-04-05, 12:24 PM

Just got email from Sony Style that my 60" was shipped yesterday. Sony uses NVC to do the receiving and setup. They have a web site where I can track the shipping progress from Pittsburg.

CFoote

10-04-05, 12:53 PM

Great first impression. Thanks for the update.

I can't wait. Just got the call that my TV arrived at the house... I may have to call in sick.. (cough, cough) after lunch....

:D :D :D :D This is Dr. Foote, you better go home :D :D :D :D

RudyMeister

10-04-05, 01:10 PM

Great first impression. Thanks for the update.

I can't wait. Just got the call that my TV arrived at the house... I may have to call in sick.. (cough, cough) after lunch....

Stick a finger in your mouth till you throw up :D :D then you can go home sick.

Remember private Benjamin? (Goldie Hawn)

Canadian

10-04-05, 01:49 PM

JimP

10-04-05, 01:52 PM

What should we call this bug that's going around? New TV itis??

Lew Black

10-04-05, 02:06 PM

Lew Black

10-04-05, 02:19 PM

AkaStp, Our computer shows all of the TV's in the warehouse on hold for delivery. It shows none in Boulder and one that just arrived in Colorado Springs. It doesn't look like the Boulder store got one reserved in time. My guess is you would have to come to our store to see it unless Ultimate has one up and running. Do you have someone you work with in Boulder? Lew

LL3HD

10-04-05, 02:39 PM

...Home Theater Magazine arrived today with the 60" SXRD on the cover. The review was very positive....I think Sony has a winner...

Sounds exciting, maybe next month they’ll have a shoot out between the SXRD and the new JVC 1080p stealth set :rolleyes:

yardman

10-04-05, 03:22 PM

Hey Boys

Just ordered my 50 inch SXRD set with the new stand. Got it for an amazing deal. If there is anyone considering ordering one of these sets in the Greater Toronto Area I would STRONGLY suggest that you send me a private message and I will give you the details and of the salesperson to speak with. Will offer you the same deal.

Am excited as hell to get this set in only two days. Arrives on Thursday and I may have to be off of work sick.

I was just thinking of you. Just got mine and trying to get it connected now. Hopefully a computer shop that I ordered the HDMI cable from will have the cable today. I already have a HD8300 so I am one cable away from pixel panache.

jdanon

10-04-05, 03:39 PM

gazelle

10-04-05, 04:00 PM

Gazelle, good report. We just got our first shipment of the new sets in yesterday. I had to pull rank to get one (a 50") for display as all were presold. We got it from our warehouse and will have it up and running this afternoon.

Home Theater Magazine arrived today with the 60" SXRD on the cover. The review was very positive. This set appears to be the King of Black, validating Gazelle's first impression and my experience from CEDIA. At CEDIA Sony was showing Zorro and the blacks amazed me. I may have to get my own copy to show this honey off.

According to Home Theater Mag, this set has a black level 1/13th of the previous best RPTV they have tested. This was with iris at min, advanced (auto iris) at high, and power saving on. This is a setting few of us would use for the advanced iris as we are apt to notice black levels changing, but it is still the best they have measured by a wide margin.

60" xbr .006 foot lamberts,

Best RPTV they have measured: .08. (They aren't clear if this was a CRT).

Best plasma measured was .023 ft lamberts.

I think Sony has a winner and I haven't even played with ours yet!!! Lew Black

I can't wait to really play with one with no time constraints.
There is no comparison with any other Microdisplay i've seen. I think the dealers will have to keep these things segregated or no one will buy a DLP. Especially on a fairly bright floor.

Everything that's come in this week to east coast warehouses is pre-sold. Dealers are pleading for display models.

Big Box dealers all have larger second orders scheduled to hit warehouses next week. For instance PC Richard is expecting a 300 set 3rd order for them to hit their LI warehouse next week 250+ of which are already pre-sold. I'll be interested to see how many they actually get. So far Sony has been meeting initial order shipments, but with everyone starting to place orders for obscene amounts now that word is spreading, i don't know if Sony will be able to keep up with demand. I also hope the quality of these sets is maintained as more production is ramped up.

kclfoxtrot

10-04-05, 04:06 PM

60" xbr .006 foot lamberts,

Best RPTV they have measured: .08. (They aren't clear if this was a CRT).

Best plasma measured was .023 ft lamberts.

I think Sony has a winner and I haven't even played with ours yet!!! Lew Black

So, is this bright or does it fall behind the plasma and RPTV in terms of brightness. Need to brush up on my foot lamberts understanding, but I thought higher equals brighter. This beast would go into a sunroom with little light control, so I need a light cannon, or watch after 8:00pm only.

jdanon

10-04-05, 04:09 PM

Or move into the northern half of the country where it's dark by 5 half the year. :)

rahivictory

10-04-05, 04:12 PM

So, is this bright or does it fall behind the plasma and RPTV in terms of brightness. Need to brush up on my foot lamberts understanding, but I thought higher equals brighter. This beast would go into a sunroom with little light control, so I need a light cannon, or watch after 8:00pm only.

The original author was referring to the black level. The lower the foot-lamberts in dark scenes, the "blacker" that the image can be. The set is capable of extreme brightness. LCoS sets generally are capable of using the most light out of any existing TV technology, according to Hometheater magazine. That's why they described the JVC model last year as something you could use to tan with, if you needed to.

AUPigskin--

10-04-05, 04:13 PM

Anyone know whether HDMI can carry HD + more than 2 channels audio? The manual for this thing states that HDMI can be used to carry HDTV along with 2 channels audio in one cable. What if it's HD + 5.1 DD audio? What happens to the other 4 channels of audio?

HDMI can carry muliple (>2) channels...BUT, there is not a single RPTV that will accept/output DD x.1 from an HDMI input.

kclfoxtrot

10-04-05, 04:15 PM

The original author was referring to the black level. The lower the foot-lamberts in dark scenes, the "blacker" that the image can be. The set is capable of extreme brightness. LCoS sets generally are capable of using the most light out of any existing TV technology, according to Hometheater magazine. That's why they described the JVC model last year as something you could use to tan with, if you needed to.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought the LCoS technology offered a brighter picture.

RudyMeister

10-04-05, 04:16 PM

Can anyone compare the Sony against the Toshiba? please comment...Thanks

rahivictory

10-04-05, 04:19 PM

You're welcome. If you want to know a little bit about the technology you could probably read about it in the archives at hometheater magazine's website www.hometheatermag.com. It was around last year some time. They recently reviewed the 70 inch, just a couple of months ago, but originally I think they reviewed the 60" (or it's around 60", anyways). They made a specific issue of discussing how bright the TV and the technology was.

Rahi

jdanon

10-04-05, 04:25 PM

OK well enough then, I can just plug my HDMI cable carrying 5.1 into my receiver, that should be able to handle the 5.1 no problem I would think.

empire_of_one

10-04-05, 04:35 PM

According to Home Theater Mag, this set has a black level 1/13th of the previous best RPTV they have tested. This was with iris at min, advanced (auto iris) at high, and power saving on. This is a setting few of us would use for the advanced iris as we are apt to notice black levels changing, but it is still the best they have measured by a wide margin.

60" xbr .006 foot lamberts,

Best RPTV they have measured: .08. (They aren't clear if this was a CRT).

Best plasma measured was .023 ft lamberts.

I think Sony has a winner and I haven't even played with ours yet!!! Lew Black

That's a fantastic black level. I'm guessing the RPTV they're citing is not a CRT, I remember seeing measurements of CRT black levels that were .001, and that was only because that was the lowest reading their measurement device was capable of registering. Nevertheless, .006 is as close to true black as anyone could ask for. If the SXRD is as good as measured, I would challenge any CRT zealot to be able to tell the difference between the BL on these sets vs. a CRT without measurement equipment.

gazelle

10-04-05, 04:38 PM

So, is this bright or does it fall behind the plasma and RPTV in terms of brightness. Need to brush up on my foot lamberts understanding, but I thought higher equals brighter. This beast would go into a sunroom with little light control, so I need a light cannon, or watch after 8:00pm only.

This means that these sets are in a league of their own when it comes to black levels.

These measurements are staggering. They make the black levels of even some of the best CRT RPTV's seem poor in comparison..

JimP

10-04-05, 04:39 PM

That's a fantastic black level. I'm guessing the RPTV they're citing is not a CRT, I remember seeing measurements of CRT black levels that were .001, and that was only because that was the lowest reading their measurement device was capable of registering. Nevertheless, .006 is as close to true black as anyone could ask for. If the SXRD is as good as measured, I would challenge any CRT zealot to be able to tell the difference between the BL on these sets vs. a CRT without measurement equipment.

I'm impressed.

What you want to bet that the CRT guys will still want to argue black levels. :rolleyes:

jpcleve77

10-04-05, 04:44 PM

gazelle

10-04-05, 04:46 PM

I'm impressed.

What you want to bet that the CRT guys will still want to argue black levels. :rolleyes:

RP CRTs already had one foot in the grave. Now add the coming of the SXRDs: equivalent black levels, you don't need a derrick to move them, or knock down walls to fit one in, or need to place one in some deep, dark, dungeon to get a watchable picture. Add to all that the SXRD's markedly better, more vibrant, detail-rich PQ and i'd say the dirt is now being shoveled on their grave. A more important question; unless flat-panel chique is your major consideration, how could anyone justify a similar-sized Plasma? You can't argue PQ anymore. The only PQ edge that Plasma has now is viewing angle....

empire_of_one

10-04-05, 04:49 PM

...and lack of SSE :o

gazelle

10-04-05, 04:50 PM

...and lack of SSE :o

True, sorry forgot that. Two edges...

Lew Black

10-04-05, 05:17 PM

I now have the 50" on display right next to a Mits WD52628. The Mits is broken in-has been on the floor for a month or more. After tweaking the Sony I feel the black levels are similar. I put on a 4/3 station and checked the bars on the sides. It is very dark on both. The Sony should get darker as the bulb breaks in.

The Sony has a little red push, but I found an adjustment for color gain and turned red down a little and it looks pretty good. I won't do any more comparing until we get come hours on the set. The Mits has inproved quite a bit with age and I expect the same from the Sony. If the 50 and 60" Sony's use the same bulb I would expect astonishing blacks on the 60". Lew

tweeterex

10-04-05, 05:23 PM

A store in Columbia MD is hosting people from S&v mag and Sony people tommorow night to showcase the new 50" & 60" XBR's...I got a postcard and someone told me they'd have a blue-ray there and they also have a qualia fpj as well.

posted also on other thread.

c.kingsley

10-04-05, 05:24 PM

True, sorry forgot that. Two edges...
...with the addition of SDE, so does that negate one of its advantages? :)

CFoote

10-04-05, 05:24 PM

I now have the 50" on display right next to a Mits WD52628. The Mits is broken in-has been on the floor for a month or more. After tweaking the Sony I feel the black levels are similar. I put on a 4/3 station and checked the bars on the sides. It is very dark on both. The Sony should get darker as the bulb breaks in.

The Sony has a little red push, but I found an adjustment for color gain and turned res down a little and it looks pretty good. I won't do any more comparing until we get come hours on the set. The Mits has inproved quite a bit with age and I expect the same from the Sony. If the 50 and 60" Sony's use the same bulb I would expect astonishing blacks on the 60". Lew

Lew, any chance you guys are going to use Avia or DVE on these sets? It would be great to get a comparison amongst the two semi-calibrated sets. I just thought I would ask :D

AuthenticAMD

10-04-05, 05:51 PM

Phil Tomaskovic

10-04-05, 05:59 PM

Here's a couple shots from my set. No major tweaking yet. All the shades are closed so pretty dark in the room. Stand is the Salamander SVDO maple.
Caution *LARGE* jpg's (2.5M)
pic1 (http://home.comcast.net/~philt56/SXRD/DSC_0096.JPG)
pic2 (http://home.comcast.net/~philt56/SXRD/DSC_0097.JPG)

Go Chi Sox!

Marc Alexander

10-04-05, 06:01 PM

Lew Black

10-04-05, 06:07 PM

Lew, any chance you guys are going to use Avia or DVE on these sets? It would be great to get a comparison amongst the two semi-calibrated sets. I just thought I would ask :D

Not likely. One of the problems with calibrating that way is you are calibrating that input with that particular source. If the DVD player gets switched in the display or you switch to broadcast TV you have to start over. An ISF calibrator uses a signal generator to tweek HD inputs. In the case of my TV, where I use the internal tuner, he used test equipment that attaches to the screen.

Even if I did do this salesmen and customers will play with the settings. There was a time when we would ISF one set and use that to explain out ISF service to people. I didnt' feel that was fair to the person who wasn't going to have it calibrated.

I will say that I am a fan of the new 1080P Mits sets and seeing them side by side, my initial impression is that the Mits holds it's own, especially as it is one of the few DLP's on which I don't see constant rainbows. (The others are the Runco projectors).

Lew

CHG

10-04-05, 06:07 PM

AUPigskin--

10-04-05, 06:09 PM

(Currently looking at sunshine as they have a great deal on the 60")

Sunshine was the best price I found. Beware of their return policy and that they are unauthorized Sony Dealer (although I called Sony and have in writing from Sony that they will honor the warranty). Anyway, I ordered mine from Sunshine on Thursday and expect it next week...

FYI, this is the 2nd Sony television I have ordered from Sunshine. My initial 36" HS Wega purchased from Sunshine has been great. No problems in the 4 years I've had it...

AuthenticAMD

10-04-05, 07:13 PM

I think i'm on the brink of buying the 60", however AUPigskin--, you mentioned about Sony honoring the warrenty even from sunshine. How did you obtain that, I would feel much better if I had the same reassurance as well. Thanks.

Sorry about the noob post. I did a search previously, but the result system was much different from the ones i've used, so I didn't know how to correclty analyze the results. But now I know.

i_can_help

10-04-05, 07:21 PM

Thanks for the clarification. I thought the LCoS technology offered a brighter picture.

You think right. But in this case, they wanted to see how dark it can get, which is equally, if not more, important as brightness.

ld100

10-04-05, 07:49 PM

If only they were not SO ugly!!! I can't belive the case with those side speakers....

tweeterex

10-04-05, 07:53 PM

Can you tell us the name of the store? I live in VA ,not to far from Columbia.

Gramophone....duh, sorry I didn't read my own post

rahivictory

10-04-05, 07:56 PM

Not likely. One of the problems with calibrating that way is you are calibrating that input with that particular source. If the DVD player gets switched in the display or you switch to broadcast TV you have to start over. An ISF calibrator uses a signal generator to tweek HD inputs. In the case of my TV, where I use the internal tuner, he used test equipment that attaches to the screen.

Even if I did do this salesmen and customers will play with the settings. There was a time when we would ISF one set and use that to explain out ISF service to people. I didnt' feel that was fair to the person who wasn't going to have it calibrated.

I will say that I am a fan of the new 1080P Mits sets and seeing them side by side, my initial impression is that the Mits holds it's own, especially as it is one of the few DLP's on which I don't see constant rainbows. (The others are the Runco projectors).

Lew

Lew,

On the SXRDs each input needs to be separately adjusted.

How could the guy calibrate the whole TV?

lance100

10-04-05, 07:59 PM

Egan

10-04-05, 08:21 PM

Sunshine was the best price I found. Beware of their return policy and that they are unauthorized Sony Dealer (although I called Sony and have in writing from Sony that they will honor the warranty). Anyway, I ordered mine from Sunshine on Thursday and expect it next week...

FYI, this is the 2nd Sony television I have ordered from Sunshine. My initial 36" HS Wega purchased from Sunshine has been great. No problems in the 4 years I've had it...

For those thinking of ordering from Sunshine, I would suggest you check out their reviews on epinions.com first, it's not pretty.

aark1996

10-04-05, 08:35 PM

OK guys. I cannot make up my own mind, I need you guys to make it up for me.Its between 50 a10, waiting for the 50 sxrd set or blowing my kids college fund with a 50 pana plasma. I own a 32xbr450 now, and the pq is GREAT!!! but too small. I do not want to sacrifice the picture for size.What to do? : :eek:

Rob Tomlin

10-04-05, 08:51 PM

If only they were not SO ugly!!! I can't belive the case with those side speakers....

I wish they had detachable side speakers, but I certainly would not say that these sets are ugly. In fact, I think they look pretty cool.

CFoote

10-04-05, 08:54 PM

Here's a couple shots from my set. No major tweaking yet. All the shades are closed so pretty dark in the room. Stand is the Salamander SVDO maple.

Go Chi Sox!

Nice pics Phil! Wow, even with that wide SVDO stand the SXRD has quite a large base! I love Salamander furniture though, the stuff is great.

easycruise

10-04-05, 09:29 PM

I will say that I am a fan of the new 1080P Mits sets and seeing them side by side, my initial impression is that the Mits holds it's own, especially as it is one of the few DLP's on which I don't see constant rainbows. (The others are the Runco projectors).

Lew

I agree. I actually give the Mits a slight edge in picture quality, i.e. slightly more definition to the colors and facial closeups.

BUT, I just read that the Mits has only one tuner and you can't get a digital picture input on the PIP feature and you can't swap the HD picture into the PIP box, because of the first part of this sentence.

Does anyone know offhand if the 50 SXRD has two tuners? That might be the deal clincher for many people, expecially sports fans who use a lot of PIP.

easycruise

10-04-05, 09:33 PM

If only they were not SO ugly!!! I can't belive the case with those side speakers....

If I knew where the speaker wiring was, and the warranty wasn't voided I wouldn't hesitate to saw off the speakers with a fine hacksaw. Heck, I turned our 4 poster bed into a 2 poster bed because of the sightlines with the TV.

ptwat

10-04-05, 10:03 PM

... Heck, I turned our 4 poster bed into a 2 poster bed because of the sightlines with the TV.
I bet Momma was happy with that :D .

Dixie Flatline

10-04-05, 10:19 PM

I agree. I actually give the Mits a slight edge in picture quality, i.e. slightly more definition to the colors and facial closeups.

BUT, I just read that the Mits has only one tuner and you can't get a digital picture input on the PIP feature and you can't swap the HD picture into the PIP box, because of the first part of this sentence.

Does anyone know offhand if the 50 SXRD has two tuners? That might be the deal clincher for many people, expecially sports fans who use a lot of PIP.
Sure looks like it. According to the manual, it's got separate connectors for VHF/UHF and cable (see pp. 18, 24, 25), and the TwinView documentation (p. 56) certainly seems to suggest that you can view a cable channel in one window and an OTA in the other. I am not particularly experienced with such things, so you might want to check it for yourself, but it reads that way to me.

jhue

10-04-05, 10:34 PM

Just got home after stopping at Fry's. The Sunnyvale store has a 60" on display and I saw a couple 50" models in the box.

Chatted with another AVS Forum reader for a couple minutes while checking it out. His words were something like, "Love the picture, hate the case." He immediately pointed to the glossy black bezel and wondered why they didn't just use the 955's bezel. He could not understand why people here haven't been complaining about it more (I speculated that the new owners must be watching in rooms with controlled lighting).

The source signal sucked, which is normal for Fry's, but I could at least tell that it was free of the artifacts that I find unacceptable with other technologies. I was hoping to not like it, and buy an A10 to hold me over (I really hate the Dumbo Ears), but it looks like I'll be buying one as soon as I move some equipment around to make room for it.

Gary_Kreie

10-04-05, 10:35 PM

I'm going with the Bello AVS-2663. It can accommodate a center speaker up to 8" high, and the upper shelf is nicely elevated off the ground. Here's a picture of it:

Tonight I ordered a TV stand. I went with the Z-Line Designs TV Stand 23541S from Circuit City online. (Black, Silver, and Glass). My 60" KDS-R60XBR1 is coming Saturday.

It should be plenty wide for the base, and the black matches the black on the TV. I don't have enough room for a 66" wide base, but with this one, the dumbo ears can overlap my raised hearth a little and everything fits.

The price is $45 less if you buy from Circuit City online and then pick it up at a nearlby store, vs. walking into the same store and buying it directly.

I had ordered the Sony SU-11M from Sony, but then learned that the stand would only hold a TV that weighed 75 lbs, and the 60" is 111 lbs.

Lew Black

10-04-05, 11:14 PM

Lew,

On the SXRDs each input needs to be separately adjusted.

How could the guy calibrate the whole TV?

Good question. He doesn't. He calibrates each input that the customer is using, depending on the source. It is a real problem with broadcast TV. You can calibrate for what you expect from HD, but the SD channels will still need some adjustment. I wish Sony would make the 3 picture mods identical in terms of what you can do with them and then preset them for Vivid, HD, DVD, and standard TV. They could have the "torch" mode be default when the TV is turned on, but let you adjust all of them for different sources on the same input, or different lighting scenes.

I am sure a good ISF's, like UMR, would have a lot to add to this. He would probably do some global work in the service menu to get basic settings more accurate. Then each input would need less individual adjustment.

Anyone have anything to add to this? Lew

JasonColeman

10-04-05, 11:22 PM

Some sort of global adjustment (if it's available) would seem to make the most sense. I just started using Avia this evening on my 60" and of course had to crank down the Picture, Brightness, and Sharpness...but it'd be nice to be able to get the set pretty close for all inputs and then tweak them individually as needed.

J.

George Cifranci

10-05-05, 04:15 AM

Tonight I ordered a TV stand. I went with the Z-Line Designs TV Stand 23541S from Circuit City online. (Black, Silver, and Glass). My 60" KDS-R60XBR1 is coming Saturday.

It should be plenty wide for the base, and the black matches the black on the TV. I don't have enough room for a 66" wide base, but with this one, the dumbo ears can overlap my raised hearth a little and everything fits.

The price is $45 less if you buy from Circuit City online and then pick it up at a nearlby store, vs. walking into the same store and buying it directly.

I had ordered the Sony SU-11M from Sony, but then learned that the stand would only hold a TV that weighed 75 lbs, and the 60" is 111 lbs.

Well the stand that was designed for the 50" & 60" SXRD's (or actually the 3LCD Grand Wega's that have the same shell) is the SU-GW12. Circuit City has had that onsale for $440.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=100659&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&BV_UseBVCookie=No#tabs

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayMoreInfoAccessories-Start?ProductSKU=SUGW12

I have one still in its box in the livingroom waiting for the TV.

hadleyfarm

10-05-05, 06:21 AM

I too am hoping we get the benefit of UMR's fine tuning!!!

Good question. He doesn't. He calibrates each input that the customer is using, depending on the source. It is a real problem with broadcast TV. You can calibrate for what you expect from HD, but the SD channels will still need some adjustment. I wish Sony would make the 3 picture mods identical in terms of what you can do with them and then preset them for Vivid, HD, DVD, and standard TV. They could have the "torch" mode be default when the TV is turned on, but let you adjust all of them for different sources on the same input, or different lighting scenes.

I am sure a good ISF's, like UMR, would have a lot to add to this. He would probably do some global work in the service menu to get basic settings more accurate. Then each input would need less individual adjustment.

Anyone have anything to add to this? Lew

jRickW

10-05-05, 07:42 AM

That's a fantastic black level...If the SXRD is as good as measured, I would challenge any CRT zealot to be able to tell the difference between the BL on these sets vs. a CRT without measurement equipment.

Can anybody who has had a chance to observe these sets comment on their ability to show shadow detail? Good black level is one thing, but I've seen other RPTVs that do blacks well but shadows poorly.

AlanBuck

10-05-05, 08:50 AM

Buy the one that looks best you you (and your S.O. if any) and that fits your budget. At the lower end of the price scale, the 50A10 is a good buy. I'm hoping to get a good look at a 50" SXRD tomorrow so I can deceide whether to keep the 50" A10 I've had for almost a month or exchange it for the 50" SXRD.

I went with the A-10 for now. I have had it 3 weeks, and am very pleased with it. It's only flaw is that blacks are still not perfect, but they are much better than the previous models. The biggest source of discontent comes from the variablity of quality in HD programming. Some shows look awesome...some are not so good. Even if you had the BEST HDTV (Panny plasma, maybe the SXRD) on the planet, that is still going to be a limiting factor for quite some time. Plus we still need a better type of DVD (blue-ray etc.) to really show-off these new TV's to their fullest. I am glad I saved the cash, and went with the A-10. I can get something better in 2-5 years when the next great thing comes along, and costs much less than the SXRD does now.

Marc Alexander

10-05-05, 08:59 AM

Generally for calibration, I charge to calibrate each additional input. It also depends on the TV. This doesn't mean each input on the TV, but each input resolution. It also depends on the TV memories.

Some TVs have shared memories. 480i/480p input may share settings, 720p/1080i may share. Other times it's not so simple as HDMI/DVI inputs may use a different memory location than component (you have to consider firewire as well). You will generally ask the customer what inputs he's going to use. If he doesn't have a firewire source, you may not want to waste your time calibrating it. Also, grayscale memories can be dependent or independent of the input memories. Generally, I want to be paid for my time. A calibration generally yields between $75-100 an hour. Microdisplay calibrations are often easier and quicker than CRTs.

I'm sure UMR or someone can comment how the Qualia handles input memories as I have never calibrated one. I won't be getting my SXRD to play with until late Oct.

Marc Alexander

10-05-05, 08:59 AM

Good black level is one thing, but I've seen other RPTVs that do blacks well but shadows poorly.I have read several comments regarding this within the two main SXRD threads.

empire_of_one

10-05-05, 12:17 PM

Good question. He doesn't. He calibrates each input that the customer is using, depending on the source. It is a real problem with broadcast TV. You can calibrate for what you expect from HD, but the SD channels will still need some adjustment. I wish Sony would make the 3 picture mods identical in terms of what you can do with them and then preset them for Vivid, HD, DVD, and standard TV. They could have the "torch" mode be default when the TV is turned on, but let you adjust all of them for different sources on the same input, or different lighting scenes.

I am sure a good ISF's, like UMR, would have a lot to add to this. He would probably do some global work in the service menu to get basic settings more accurate. Then each input would need less individual adjustment.

Anyone have anything to add to this? Lew

I'm not sure about this, but I believe on the Sony's, when you adjust one picture mode, such as Pro, then switch to another mode like Standard, your settings for Pro are still saved if you return to Pro mode on that same input. So for example, if you were hooked up to an STB you could use Pro mode for dialing in HD channels and Standard mode for SD channels and then switch between the two while retaining the individual settings in each mode. That adds a little bit of extra flexibility. I think that's how my XS955 worked, but I can't remember for sure.

Yoda1

10-05-05, 12:22 PM

I have read several comments regarding this within the two main SXRD threads.

The shadow detail on this set is just fine. No problems whatsoever.

penogg

10-05-05, 12:47 PM

I have the dimensions of the 50" and 60" (KDS-RxxXBR1) from the manual. Now that a few of you have this set could please give me the dimensions of just the screen for a custom mounting (W x H)? Also if possible, I need the measurement from the floor to the bottom of the screen.

Thank you,
KP

Sorry to re-post but I think I got passed over....I would very much appreciate it if someone could post these measurements.

bholub

10-05-05, 02:39 PM

Sunshine is listing the 50" SXRD now as well, but is not yet displaying a price...

on another note, anyone know where I can see an SXRD in Orange County, CA? The SonyStyle store in the South Coast Plaza has been expecting them for a week now, but don't have them yet.

roller11

10-05-05, 03:35 PM

Sorry to ask this question. I'm sure that I can find it somewhere, but I wanted a personal opinion on on the MINIMUM viewing distance of a 50" or 60" sxrd. Also, where else would you buy from? (Currently looking at sunshine as they have a great deal on the 60")

The minimum occurs when the sides of the picture start to get outside
your peripheral vision, so disregard people who tell you that the correct minumum
is arbitrary and strictly personal preference, it isn't.

This distance occurs at a viewing angle of 44 degrees. For a 16:9 aspect ratio,
the viewing angle can be found by

angle = 2*arc tan (diag*8/dis*sqrt 337)
where "diag" is the screen diagonol measure and "dis" is the viewing distance.

Solving for distance given 60" diag and 44 degree angle gives you the answer to
your question, namely

minimum distance = 8*60/(tan22)*sqrt(337)

or approximately 5.4 feet. So for a 60 inch set, you shouldn't be closer than
5.4 feet.

The 44 degree angle comes from Lucas' THX Certification spec.,
the rest is simple math.

The same THX spec gives 36 degrees as the "ideal" tradeoff between
picture quality and immersion, so that would be the practical value to
use in the above angle equation.
As a side note, I have a 61" Samsung DLP set at a distance of
7 feet, which is a 34.5 viewing angle. This is just about right,
so the 36 degree value checks out.

jdanon

10-05-05, 03:42 PM

It is personal preference. No way I'd ever sit that close to a TV no matter what THX or any other spec says. My 60 inch screen will be 14 ft away from where I view it.

roller11

10-05-05, 03:49 PM

The biggest source of discontent comes from the variablity of quality in HD programming. Some shows look awesome...some are not so good. Even if you had the BEST HDTV (Panny plasma, maybe the SXRD) on the planet, that is still going to be a limiting factor for quite some time.

Seems you and I are the designated "picture quality cops" for this thread. :)

Anyhow, did you see "Mayday" on CBS Sunday nite? The PQ was awesome,
no graininess at all, colors vivid, crisp, not over saturated...in short
looked like it was shot with a vid camera as opposed to Optical Media
transfer. That said, the PQ varied on a scene by scene basis (the cockpit
shots were the best) but it was all good. The scenes in the Command Center
were obviously post processed so they had unnatural lighting to create
a mood, but there was still no graininess/video noise at all. I'm keeping this prog
on my hard disk so I can re watch it when I get my hi res 1920x1080 set.

Also "Close to Home" on CBS was very good Tues. nite. It had a tiny bit
of graininess, but still way above average. On a scale of 0 to 10,
I'd rate it a 9 with Still Standing a 10 and NCIS/King of Queens/2.5 men, etc
a 0. Also, Ghost Whisperer was up there too.
Finally, Saturday Night Live has finally gone hi def and the PQ is superb as
expected.

Gary_Kreie

10-05-05, 03:51 PM

Well the stand that was designed for the 50" & 60" SXRD's (or actually the 3LCD Grand Wega's that have the same shell) is the SU-GW12. Circuit City has had that onsale for $440.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=100659&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&BV_UseBVCookie=No#tabs

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayMoreInfoAccessories-Start?ProductSKU=SUGW12

I have one still in its box in the livingroom waiting for the TV.

Here is the link to the stand I bought and will be assembling this evening:

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Z-Line-Designs-TV-Stand-23541S-/sem/rpsm/oid/69535/catOid/-12892/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

It is smaller and cheaper than the W12, but the base fits on the stand and it looked great in the store, and the smaller stand works better in my house.

Lew Black

10-05-05, 04:16 PM

I'm not sure about this, but I believe on the Sony's, when you adjust one picture mode, such as Pro, then switch to another mode like Standard, your settings for Pro are still saved if you return to Pro mode on that same input. So for example, if you were hooked up to an STB you could use Pro mode for dialing in HD channels and Standard mode for SD channels and then switch between the two while retaining the individual settings in each mode. That adds a little bit of extra flexibility. I think that's how my XS955 worked, but I can't remember for sure.

You are correct. The problem is that the Pro setting allows more adjustment than the other 2 presets. In Pro you have more choices of color temps plus you can get into an advanced video menu that is unavailble on the other 2 settings. I wish they would give you all the options on all settings, but preset Vivid for "showroom torch mode." This would allow you to take vivid and make it identical to Pro except for picture and brightness, for example, which could be optimized for daytime viewing. That make sense?

Lew

jsessler

10-05-05, 05:56 PM

So is Sears an ok place to purchase a 60" Sony SXRD?

They said it would be a couple weeks. Price is the standard $4999.

Also, I have a Panasonic H1000 progressive scan DVD with "Better Cables" component cords. Will this be good enough until the new DVD technology comes along?

I also need to replace my Dish Network HD box to the 818? so I can have the HDMI out.

Lance
I purchased my 60" on 9/23 from Sears (got a great price) and they were to deliver it 10/3. I got a call on the first moving that date to the 7th. Now they are telling me 10/19!

I've been on the phone with Sears for an hour and nobody can tell me if I'm even going to see it on the 19th or why the dates have changed...

Jeff

jdanon

10-05-05, 06:20 PM

jsessler

10-05-05, 06:37 PM

Jeff that's not unusual. Apparently this is happening to lots of places, not just Sears. These sets are a hot commodity right now and there's not much supply to meet the current demand. They are probably pushing you into the 3rd or 4th shipment of the TVs much like Crutchfield has done to me even after I ordered in August. Basically they have to wait and see how many TVs they get and then go down the list and fill the orders in the order they received them, so the initial date may have been based on a guess of how many TVs they would receive, but now that they see how many they are getting they have to push back your date. Frustrating I know, but understandable, and like I said on an earlier post, for the most part I think it'll be hard to get these things until later in October if not November unless you happen to find a local store and jump on one of the few sets they initially get.

I don't mind waiting but I dislike not being able to get a clear answer. I started by calling the local Sears and they told me to call delivery. The Delivery people only provide what is in the computer and they keep telling me "they're sure I'll get it on the 19th" but when I mention that they said the same thing about the the previous two delivery days they simply go into a coma.

I even called National Customer relations and the person I spoke to got hung-up on the first time by delivery and then the next supervisor was of no help. National Customer service has suggested I take the matter up with the local manager.

If this was Circuit City or the going-out-of-business Good Guys, the sales people were always willing to contact the actual "buyer" for the store to find out the details on arrival, delays, etc.

Sears delivery did try to buy my silence with a $40.00 gift card but I declined and asked that they find an answer to my question instead.

Purchasing from Sunshine is sounding better every day! ;)

Jeff

cyto

10-05-05, 06:51 PM

Damn, some of you people need to grow up and quit acting like whiny, little kids. These places have no control over when Sony decides to start its shipments. These businesses only give dates based on what the Sony Reps tell them. Think about it! How would they know exactly when they are going to get them when Sony keeps changing the date. Crutchfield has changed the date at least four times on its website. Like one poster already mentioned, pre-orders are on a first come, first serve basis, so you may have to wait for both of these reasons.

Also, I checked out some reviews about shopsunshine and there are several nightmare stories. I would rather pay a little more money than to have to deal with this company.

PaulGo

10-05-05, 06:58 PM

I saw the 60" SXRD at The Great Indoors - I was able to play around with the settings. To me the picture quality was good to very good - they were displaying HDNET. Next to this set was the 60" Sony LCD. Their was no screen door effect on the SXRD. The picture quality did not "blow me away". The biggest problem I observed was on white objects their was a very slight red fringe - this was not visible on the LCD Sony. I can only guess the optics was slightly off or their is a bleed through on the surrounding crystals. I was expecting better from this set. Hopefully it is a bug they can eliminate (or maybe it was a defective set). :(

yardman

10-05-05, 06:59 PM

jdanon...I have an SA8300 STB (Time Warner) with HDMI out and use HDMI for video only. I run an optical from the SA8300 to my AVR. There are options in the setup menus for the cable box to define how audio is handled...whether it be through the HDMI or optical outputs. Hope that helps.

I must thank you for that bit of advice. I at first ran a toslink from the SXRD to my AVR1800 and got no signal but had sound in the TV speakers from the HDMI. So I just put the toslink back on the 8300. I should find the manual for the 8300 (had the thing for months and never needed the book) and learn about the audio settings. Thanks again for waking me up!

jsessler

10-05-05, 07:11 PM

Damn, some of you people need to grow up and quit acting like whiny, little kids. These places have no control over when Sony decides to start its shipments. These businesses only give dates based on what the Sony Reps tell them. Think about it! How would they know exactly when they are going to get them when Sony keeps changing the date. Crutchfield has changed the date at least four times on its website. Like one poster already mentioned, pre-orders are on a first come, first serve basis, so you may have to wait for both of these reasons.

Nice to see that you're "grown up" enough to not engage in name calling!

Having worked at one time in the industry, it is not unreasonable to get a legitimate update from the buyer. The buyer may say "Sony is F*!k'ing us and I have no status" but at least it is coming from somebody that can truly speak for his/her company.

best,
Jeff

ehlarson

10-05-05, 07:35 PM

I was hoping that it would WOW me to the extent that I would buy one there and then but unfortunately I came away unsure, needing to think about it some more and go back for another viewing. It is definitely a very nice TV but for a 50" model being viewed at 12' I'm not sure that it is worth paying an extra $1500 over the cost of the 50" A10

For a 50" at 12' and the limitations of the signal source with predominantly bright images in a well lit store I think you are going to be hard pressed to see a difference. You need to compared the sets with the lights low, pristine source material with a lot a dark scenes. If you can do it get a DVHS and play a movie like 'Girl With a Pearl Earing' in low lighting in Pro mode. Then the advantages will become very apparent.

cyto

10-05-05, 07:35 PM

Nice to see that you're "grown up" enough to not engage in name calling!

Having worked at one time in the industry, it is not unreasonable to get a legitimate update from the buyer. The buyer may say "Sony is F*!k'ing us and I have no status" but at least it is coming from somebody that can truly speak for his/her company.

best,
Jeff

Uh...
OK, guy smiley. Since I wasn't quoting anyone, you must automatically assume that I was talking about you because you have labeled yourself as a "whiny, little kid." You really should work on reading comprehension. I said,"some of you people need to grow up and quit acting like whiny, little kids" and not, 'jsessler, you are a whiny, little kid'. See the difference? One uses a non-specific reference while the other does. And because there was a universal quantifier...
Oh, nevermind. It's not like you'll understand any of this. After all, you're a whiny, little kid.
LOL

On Topic:
As for the SXRD. I think I will hold out for the second generation with 1080p inputs. I don't want to spend $5000 on a TV that I would only use regularly until the next gen came out.

AUPigskin--

10-05-05, 07:40 PM

Also, I checked out some reviews about shopsunshine and there are several nightmare stories. I would rather pay a little more money than to have to deal with this company.

Unlike the stories from Sears :rolleyes:

Big Worms

10-05-05, 07:46 PM

AkaStp, what store did you see the 60"?

AUPigskin--

10-05-05, 07:50 PM

I wrestled with the same thing when I tried a Samsung 50" 1080p set (HLR5078) a few weeks ago. I.e. whether there is enough benefit to a 1080p TV with a 50" screen at a 12' viewing distance. I had a feeling that I might encounter the same thing with the 50" SXRD. I actually viewed the 60" SXRD at ~15' to get roughly the same perceived screen size as a 50" at ~12'. So once again, a 1080p set may be wasted on me given my restriction on screen size and viewing distance!

Way off topic, but why don't you go with the Panny Plasma? Reasonable price for 50"er...I doubt you will find any 50" 1080p set that will benefit at 12'.

illafied

10-05-05, 07:52 PM

anyone in Sacramento see one of these in person yet?

JimP

10-05-05, 08:22 PM

Yes, I've been considering that but I'm having a problem getting buy-in from the wife (for a rather silly reason that if I revealed you'd probably laugh at me!).

Oh come on, just whisper it to us. We won't tell. :D

roller11

10-05-05, 08:24 PM

I had a chance to see a 60" SXRD today. .

Where was this set exactly? Was it in the back room where the DLPs and Qualia set? Was it on the end of the room where they have the 52" Mits DLP?
I'm interested in doing a side by side against a 1080 DLP, but the two
side by side sets would have to be the same size for a valid comparison.

HomeGuy

10-05-05, 08:27 PM

AKAStp: You really can't jusge the set properly in a store. From the reviews of owners so far the set is amazing. Great BL, CR and no SDE. With the proper source I think you'll be wowed. When HD-DVD hits the shelves these sets will really shine too. If you can wait a month or so prices will drop and you woulnd't have to pay a premium for this new model. When everything settles the price difference may not be more then 900.00 between the sets you're looking at. If you're going to keep the sets for a few years then 900.00 spread over those years is not too bad.

JimsArcade

10-05-05, 08:40 PM

I finally saw the 50" SXRD at the Broomall, PA HiFi House and--to sound like a broken record--I was floored! It looked better than I'd even imagined. It was the closest I've ever seen a RPTV perform compared to Sony's 34" XBR direct-view CRT. Now I just have to find an acceptable stand to put it on and then I will place my order.

Frankreich

10-05-05, 08:41 PM

So there I was minding my own business and checking out the 1080p Mitsubishi DLP's at the Ultimate Electronics in Maple Grove, MN, when a salesman walked by. I normally hate talking to these guys, but this time we started talking and I asked him what he knew about the new SXRD's. He said, "We just got the 50" out on the floor today. Wanna see it?" Obviously, I was like...YES!

Anyway, they had it set up in one of their darkened theater rooms along with a Sony HD front projector and one of the higher end Sony plasmas. Basically there was no question...the SXRD BLEW THEM ALL AWAY! They were running the same in-house satellite HD feed 1080i to all the TV's (through Component on the SXRD) and the SXRD just drew you in :eek: . I kept looking back and forth between the plasma and the SXRD, it was like a tennis match! The SXRD had: deeper blacks, brighter colors, sharper picture, everything. I would have to disagree with AkaStp, I didn't notice any SSE or SDE (and I have 20/10 vision). It was just a pure, smooth picture. They were running it on Pro mode, which was really dark - I liked it.

I was able to fiddle with the controls for awhile. First of all I'm glad this one does not have that stupid WEGAgate system (not a fan). The remote is nice and sleek, metal with smaller buttons. The Pro mode was very dark, and I preferrred it to Standard or Vivid. I also played with the Iris control and that really made a difference in the black levels. Basically it could go from a Grand Wega II LCD level down to CRT RPTV (IMHO)

I also got to see a DVD (again split feed) they were running of a Heart concert. Man, it was almost HD level to me, (granted - 1st gen. Samsung DLP level HD) but still, it was clear and crisp, and I was only sitting about 9' - 10' away.

Basically, I just really like this TV. I think if Sony can market it properly, it will the THE TV to own this holiday season. I went back and looked at some of the other TV's in their showroom (basically everything -Hitachi) and the Sony was just SO much better. I even preferred it to the Qualia (which is too big for me anyway). I have seen the 1080p Samsung and Mitsubishi DLP side by side with their 720p companions and I have just not been that impressed (granted the feeds at BestBuy weren't all the that great). The SXRD was also on a split feed but I couldn't pick out any problems.

I have been following the HDTV scene for 2 1/2 years now, ever since the 1st gen. Samsung DLP's came out in Fall '02, but I have never pulled the trigger on anything. At first it was because I was a poor college student, but even after I got a job , I have just kept waiting for the next big thing. Originally, after reading/analyzing all the pro/con arguments for 1080p, I thought it was a waste of time. Now, I am definitely changing my mind -- it really makes a difference!

This TV got me excited enough to finally register for this site and spread the gospel of SXRD 1080p! Now I just need to scrape up the MSRP level dollars and go get this baby. :D

P.S. Ultimate had 5 in the store, and another 20 at their warehouse in Denver. :p

RudyMeister

10-05-05, 08:54 PM

I wisg they make a 55" SXRD :0 my viewing distance is 10ft and the 60" just seems too big. :(

Frankreich

10-05-05, 08:59 PM

The SSE would probably be much less noticeable with the picture mode set to Pro as bright material tends to bring out the SSE.
I will have to watch out for that.

Big Worms

10-05-05, 09:01 PM

Ultimate Electronics (formerly known as SoundTrack) in Boulder.
Sweet will have to make a trip there this weekend. Actually I will check the Thornton store first. Thanks.

1997_VMAX

10-05-05, 09:03 PM

I saw a JVC HD-ILA, a 720P model the other day at Best Buy. It got me real psyched about LCOS technology. My wife and I thought it had the best picture in the store. The image was real bright and clean, colors were crisp. The salesman said it was due to the type of lightbulb being used, I think it is some kind of mercury bulb. Can someone shed some light on the issue of bulbs and how the Sony SXRD compares. I noticed on the JVC threads that the bulbs on their D-LIA sets were burning out real fast earlier this year. Will that be an issue here? Or has the bulb manufacturers fixed the problem? I'm waiting to see the JVC'S before making a purchase decision. My wife prefers the simple black case on the JVC TV's. Luckily, she won't except anything less than a 60" T.V.

Thanks for any help. I've been following this forum for a couple month's and you guy's are a great resource.

kclfoxtrot

10-05-05, 09:53 PM

I didn't notice any SDE at all (and I have 20/15 vision). The SSE would probably be much less noticeable with the picture mode set to Pro as bright material tends to bring out the SSE. Its probably not a big deal but it it does exist (though I had hoped it wouldn't) as has also been confirmed by several other viewers and owners.

I didn't notice SDE, but definitely did notice SSE in the brighter scenes. The CC store also had the Panny 50px50u a few feet away and it appeared to have a better picture. I wanted to tweak the 60 SXRD but there was no remote available. I may be crazy, but I thought the Panny had a sharper picture as well. Now, that said, the SXRD had a very good picture. I also noticed a bit of what can best be described as cartoonish flesh tones on the Panny. Seemed a bit unnatural. It didn't help that they had the Vikings playoff loss to the Eagles running through the sets. Decisions, decisions.

gweempose

10-05-05, 10:48 PM

I wish they make a 55" SXRD :0 my viewing distance is 10ft and the 60" just seems too big. :(I sit about 10 feet from mine and I think it's the perfect distance.

empire_of_one

10-05-05, 10:55 PM

I wisg they make a 55" SXRD :0 my viewing distance is 10ft and the 60" just seems too big. :(

I had a 60" XS955 which I viewed from 9-9.5' and it was OK, a little SDE from time to time. The size itself was no problem, and SDE will be no problem on the SXRD. I plan on getting the 60" SXRD. Though 55" would be fine, the one thing that seems pretty common is once you get the set, even though it may seem big at first, over time it starts to seem smaller and smaller.

HomeGuy

10-05-05, 10:55 PM

Does anyone know of SXRD sets on Long Island for viewing?

ABhatnagar

10-06-05, 12:03 AM

I will be sitting on a couch about 10 feet from the set. I don't think the stand will be too high, but I guess I'll find out tomorrow when the set is delivered.

Awesome! Let us know how it goes and pic's are always cool!

-Arv

ABhatnagar

10-06-05, 12:13 AM

HDMI can carry muliple (>2) channels...BUT, there is not a single RPTV that will accept/output DD x.1 from an HDMI input.

So what does this mean in plain English?

I have a 5.1 Setup...

-Arv

gazelle

10-06-05, 12:29 AM

You have to run an optical or coax cable directly to your AVR to get 5.1

RudyMeister

10-06-05, 12:50 AM

I had a 60" XS955 which I viewed from 9-9.5' and it was OK, a little SDE from time to time. The size itself was no problem, and SDE will be no problem on the SXRD. I plan on getting the 60" SXRD. Though 55" would be fine, the one thing that seems pretty common is once you get the set, even though it may seem big at first, over time it starts to seem smaller and smaller.

Is it the dumbo ear efect that's bothering me?

roller11

10-06-05, 12:53 AM

Maybe I was in too much of a hurry the first time through and need a better look. So, I plan to go back tomorrow or Friday and spend more time with the SXRD. I want to look at some different material, such as HDNet, and also tinker with the picture settings to try and get the best out of the TV in the store. I'll also try to get an upconvert DVD player (my Panny S97) hooked up.

The obvious comparison is the 70" Qualia 006 vs the 60" SXRD. Since they use the same
tech, people are hoping the SXRD will look "just as good" as the Qualia 006.
But ppl are suspicious cause this is one of those "too good to be true" deals,
getting a $12000 TV for $4500. Of course you are giving up 10" of size, still...
That's what ppl want to know, is possible that the SXRD 60"could
really be as good as the revered Qualia PQ wise?
Since the SXRD is immediately to the left of the Qualia could you scrutinize
the PQ of these sets and report your findings?

The sales guy at UE said they have NFL football games going on Sunday in their
back room. CBS usually has superb PQ so that might be a good test for PQ
if you could view while the Pats-Falcons are playing Sunday at 11:00 AM

RudyMeister

10-06-05, 01:17 AM

Today was a bit of a flying visit as I had to rush to pick my son up from school and get him to ice hockey practice in Louisville. I think I might take a couple of hours off work tomorrow afternoon and go over there again to spend more time viewing the 60" SXRD and see how it compares to the Qualia 006. You want to meet me there and we'll scrutinize together?

AkaStp Can you take a harder look at the Toshiba 56 DLP and compare it to the Mits and SXRD 60"?

I may have to consider the Toshiba because I think 55" may be better for me. The Sony 60" just seem a bit too big for me right now ...and a whopping extra $1500 the PQ would have to be much much better. Maybe it's just the dumbo ears that gives the overwhelmingly large effect.

I've seen the Toshiba 55" and thought that it has pretty PQ but I didn't have any other 1080p sets near by to compare.

Thanks

rahivictory

10-06-05, 01:32 AM

Yoda1

10-06-05, 01:36 AM

What are you guys smoking? The SXRD is in another class altogether compared to the A10.

Comparisons are silly, really. Simply no contest.

gweempose

10-06-05, 01:38 AM

The obvious comparison is the 70" Qualia 006 vs the 60" SXRD. Since they use the same tech, people are hoping the SXRD will look "just as good" as the Qualia 006. But ppl are suspicious cause this is one of those "too good to be true" deals,
getting a $12000 TV for $4500. Of course you are giving up 10" of size, still...
That's what ppl want to know, is possible that the SXRD 60"could really be as good as the revered Qualia PQ wise?I talked about this over in the owners thread. Here's a link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6309305&&#post6309305) to my post.

Frankreich

10-06-05, 01:40 AM

The obvious comparison is the 70" Qualia 006 vs the 60" SXRD. Since they use the same tech, people are hoping the SXRD will look "just as good" as the Qualia 006.
I would have to say that the 50" SXRD looked as good (if not better) as the Qualia. I'm not sure whether or not the Qualia has the Iris Control, but I think that is definitely worth the price of admission alone.

Sony worked very hard on this set. They are pricing it to be the market leader, that could be part of the price difference? (other than the fact they're smaller) Maybe they've worked out the kinks in the SXRD system by now, resulting in cheaper production costs?

I've seen the Qualia many times, and granted it could've been the feed, but it still didn't "jump out" at me like these new sets did. I'm not super interested in the Qualia anyway - it's much too large for my small apartment.

gweempose

10-06-05, 01:43 AM

Let us know how it goes and pic's are always cool!I posted some pics here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6296136&&#post6296136).

jkv4

10-06-05, 02:31 AM

AkaStp,

I think your impressions are totally accurate. From my viewings of the TV right next to the A10, both my wife and I thought that the SXRD was a bit softer than the A10, but I had turned down the sharpness on the SXRD and I suspect that the A10 was turned up all the way.

I have already reported that I thought there were artifacts around the edges of images, and it now seems that these artifacts are consistent with SSE. I did turn down many of the brightness, sharpness and contrast settings, but it was still present.

If you get a chance to go back, please report on the SXRD vs. the Mits and the Toshiba, since many of us are really considering all of these sets.

The A10 is going to look sharper because it has less pixels and lower fill factor than the SXRD. The SXRD will not look as sharp but will have twice the resolution and the fill factor is greater with the pixels compared to the LCD tech. This will give the SXRD a smoother look or softer look. The same thing applies when you compare the Panny 42 ED and HD plasmas, the ED is acutally sharper but the HD looks smoother and has more resolution.

roller11

10-06-05, 03:06 AM

HomeGuy

10-06-05, 07:02 AM

Yet we have had owner report that this set is razor sharp if not to a fault. I have to go with the owners since the TV is setup in their homes with the correct feed, etc.

AUPigskin--

10-06-05, 08:05 AM

So what does this mean in plain English?

I have a 5.1 Setup...

-Arv

The TV will not output 5.1 through it's optical port to your receiver if your input is HDMI...

k4kman

10-06-05, 08:33 AM

I sit about 10 feet from mine and I think it's the perfect distance.

How do you find SD looking I know HD looks really good but what about SD as for me I would have to say at least 50% of my watching will still have to be SD and that is what worries me about watching from 9-10'

JasonColeman

10-06-05, 08:42 AM

How do you find SD looking I know HD looks really good but what about SD as for me I would have to say at least 50% of my watching will still have to be SD and that is what worries me about watching from 9-10'
SD is actually quite good, depending on the station. The networks look very fine, as do many of the "cable" channels, but some of them (WGN out of Chicago in particular) are absolutely awful. The cable news channels all look very good, as does HBO and many others (TNT, USA, A&E, FoodTV, Bravo, Comedy Central, Spike, etc.). Much of it depends on the content, too, but overall SD is quite impressive for a 60" set.

J.

jdanon

10-06-05, 09:12 AM

ABhatnagar

10-06-05, 10:27 AM

I posted some pics here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6296136&&#post6296136).

Awesome! By the way I liked the movie DodgeBall no matter how cheezy it was :)

Q's:

So when you sit down are you back far enough to be sitting and looking at the middle of the TV or more bottom of center? In other words, do you think the TV stand is too tall?

With your burn-in experiment, what were your results?

-Arv

ABhatnagar

10-06-05, 10:30 AM

The TV will not output 5.1 through it's optical port to your receiver if your input is HDMI...

Ok, this will be ok then....

My HDMI from the DVD runs through the receiver sending Video to the TV and Sound to the Receiver...

Then my DVI-HDMI from the CPU runs directly to the TV, but Optical SPDIF in/out going to the receiver...

Seems like I'm covered. Thanks for the response.

-Arv

Canadian

10-06-05, 10:35 AM

Can anyone describe what happens on these sets in the 'GAME' mode? What changes in the picture take place?

Thanks

dsaumkc

10-06-05, 11:24 AM

Can anyone describe what happens on these sets in the 'GAME' mode? What changes in the picture take place?

Thanks

I'm assuming that it's justification for this option is to reduce lag during online game play. It seems to me that it reduces the image back down to the original picture quality of the signal. According to the manual (pg. 82) the game mode "Optomizes the lipsync when playing video games" and are "Not available when watching 480p and 720p sources, or when using multi-picture functions (split-screening,Twin-screen, Freeze, or Memory Stick)...

But I would guess that it will depend on how good the original signal is coming from the gaming console itself... Older games would probably look kinda blurry like they are from an old analog signal or something like that...So the next generation consoles and games should be fine.. but playing some of the older one's might give you a bit of a flashback to what limits were on how good the older games and consoles can look...

Dixie Flatline

10-06-05, 11:33 AM

I thought the SXRD will output 5.1 via the optical jack and if it doesn't have 5.1 audio it'll go through the RCA AV outputs? What's the point of having an optical output if it won't do more than two channels?

For me this isn't a problem as I plan on connecting my video sources by HDMI into my receiver and sending the audio through the receiver and the video through a single HDMI outputs on my receiver to the TV. I was just curious if the HDMI has the bandwidth to carry HD TV plus a full 6 channels of audio.
As I understand the logic here:

HDMI can carry 5.1 channel audio just fine. (See the hdmi.org FAQ (http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/faq.asp), about halfway down the page.) However, the source decides what kind of audio to send based on the capabilities reported by the sink. If you connect a DVD player to a 5.1 receiver via HDMI, the receiver reports that it can take 5.1, so the DVD player sends 5.1. However, if you connect to the TV with HDMI, the TV assumes you want to listen to the audio on the TV speakers, so it reports itself as a stereo device, and the DVD player (or other HDMI source) sends 2-channel audio, and that's the signal that the TV sends from its optical output.

On the other hand, I believe the TV's internal tuners can receive 5.1 just fine, so if the TV receives 5.1 from a cable or OTA broadcast, then it will send 5.1 from its optical out to your receiver.

empire_of_one

10-06-05, 12:48 PM

<whisper>She doesn't like the fact that the front of the foot of the pedestal of your typical plasma extends about 6" in front of the screen. Thus, if the front of the foot was at the front of our stand then the TV would be set 6" back into our HT nook (see pics in my gallery). She wants the front of the screen to be flush with the front of the stand and the front of our HT nook.</whisper>
Aside from that she would love for us to geta 50" plasma display.

As for the SXRD, she has mixed feelings about the dumbo ear speakers but she's less keen on the shiny black bezel! She prefers the look and cabinet style of the A10.

You could get a custom install done that would anchor the plasma inside the nook and allow the screen to be flush in front. If you wanted to spend the extra cash (or do the construction yourself).

gweempose

10-06-05, 01:05 PM

So when you sit down are you back far enough to be sitting and looking at the middle of the TV or more bottom of center? In other words, do you think the TV stand is too tall?

I sit about 10 feet away from the set. My eyes are definitely below the center of the screen, but it doesn't seem awkward at all. If you think about it, this is often the way you view a movie in the theater. I guess it's really a personal preference kind of thing.

With your burn-in experiment, what were your results?I tried several different things, but I was unable to produce any type of image retention.

JeffNLA

10-06-05, 01:20 PM

Has anyone ran a Windows Media PC on these sets yet? I have a samsung and it runs 1920x1080 beautifully thru the PC port. I downloaded the sony manual and it says PC resolution of 1280x1024 - huh that's not even widescreen aspect ratio.

Thanks again
(yes i did search the thread to attempt to find an answer)

Oskiebabu

10-06-05, 01:23 PM

I send my Pioneer Elite 59avi dvd player to my HDTV via HDMI. I also connect the dvd player to my Pioneer Elite 59Txi via the i-link (firewire) which carries all audio channels. Previous iterations of HDMI didn't pass more than 2 channels of audio. As i-link can carry at least 8 channels of audio, plus pass cd, dvd-a, sacd, etc. and the disc format is automatically recognized by the receiver, until I feel confident in all my components passing at least 5.1 through HDMI, I will stay with my current set-up.

Artwood

10-06-05, 02:08 PM

Softer = BAD!

AlanBuck

10-06-05, 02:17 PM

Could be any number of reasons from settings to source material to...
I viewed the SXRD with Discovery-HD from DirecTV which isn't at its sharpest right now. I plan to view with other source material.
However if you want to dismiss what non-owners are saying (especially if its contrary to what you want to hear) thats your perogative. What is most important is what you see with your own eyes and if it meets your expectations and produces an acceptable picture to you. Have you seen an SXRD yourself yet?

P.S. jkv4's explanation would seem to validate the observation that some people have made about the SXRD appearing to be softer than the 720p A10.

I see you are still on the fence about keeping the A-10. I have been well pleased with mine, and think it will keep me happy for at least 2 years. On a really high quality HD show like CSI NY the thing amazes me with the overall PQ. The only drawback I have with the A-10 is the less-than-stellar black levels. But they are much better than the prior 3LCD models. SDE is not an issue for me since I am about 12 feet from the TV. I would probably have bought the SXRD, IF it had been in the A-10 style cabinet. What about the A-10 is keeping you on the fence about whether to keep it or try something else?

jkv4

10-06-05, 02:20 PM

Softer = BAD!

720P LCD = Sharper= SDE, artificial looking, less detail

1080P SXRD= No SDE, smooth and natural (like real life), more detail.

Both have SSE

AlanBuck

10-06-05, 02:27 PM

720P LCD = Sharper= SDE, artificial looking, less detail

1080P SXRD= No SDE, smooth and natural (like real life), more detail.

Both have SSE

Not sure I buy this one. A digital photograph is SHARPER, and more detailed from a higher pixel count camera, than a lower one. The same should apply to TV's. The SXRD should have a sharper, AND more detailed picture than than the A-10. Following your logic should mean that HDTV is not as sharp as regular TV...which we all know is NOT the case. Samsung used that 'film like' bull to mask the fact the the HD-3 wobbulated chip had a fuzzy, and poorly defined picture. I tried one at home, and felt like my eyesight had gone bad. I surely hope that the SXRD doesn't have that kind of PQ. I sure didn't feel that way about it at CEDIA. The A-10 is very detailed at normal viewing distances to my eye.

AlanBuck

10-06-05, 02:35 PM

You seem to be saying Sharper = BAD and Softer = GOOD.

That is a page from Samsung's DLP marketing department. :rolleyes:

pschwartz

10-06-05, 02:44 PM

What is SSE? I know SDE- screen door effect (visible pixel structure). I don't know what SSE is?

c.kingsley

10-06-05, 02:49 PM

AlanBuck

10-06-05, 02:57 PM

Having seen a Qualia, I can say that the picture is more SMOOTH than an A10. Remember, a lot of these terms are subjective, and you really need to see the picture for yourself to understand. There is something about the A10, with it's glaring SDE, that appears very unnatural to me. The Qualia, on the other hand, had a smooth, silky, lifelike picture that was entirely different from the A10. Don't get me wrong, the A10 has a nice picture, but it's not even in the same class of realism as the Qualia, and by extention, the 50 or 60" SXRD.

With the SSE on the SXRD's I don't find them to look all that 'real'. I find the better plasmas still look the most real, so long as you are far enough away to not see the pixels. I didn't feel that the 50 inch SXRD was all that much superior to the A-10. The 60 size looked substantially better than the A-20 though in my opinion. I think the extra resolution of the SXRD really pays off in the larger screen size.

AlanBuck

10-06-05, 03:14 PM

Well, since you asked...

Blacks & Shadow Detail: I don't have a problem with the A10's black levels and shadow detail. I'm happy with them. They are good enough for me for the types of materials we watch and our viewing environment (moderately lit family room).

Cabinet style: The wife prefers the "sleaker" look and compactness of the A10's cabinet. She's not too keen on the SXRD's dumbo-ear speakers and she also does not care for the SXRD's shiny black bezel because of its reflections (she likens it to the Samsung 5078's glossy black lacqueur bezel which she disliked).

Resolution: Keep coming back to the questionable benefit of 1080p vs 720p on a 50" screen at a 10-12' viewing distance. Like you, I find the A10 to be nice and sharp and detailed at 10-12'.

SDE: Not a problem at 12' viewing distance. Its actually not much of a problem closer up either.

SSE: This is probably my one real complaint about the A10 and I was hoping the SXRD would be better in this regard but that does not seem to be the case, nor is it really any better with any other RP TV (shut up Zues!).

User Interface: I actually like the A10's Wega Gate, especially the ability to pick the desired input from a list.

The SXRD seems to be more "future-proof" than the A10 by virtue of the 1080p capability, the extra HDMI input, the IEEE/Firewire ports, the card reader (though I use CompactFlash), the twin-view (though its useless if you have only digital sources like I do).

One thing that keeps drawing me back to the SXRD is a feeling that it is more of an "enthusiast's" TV (due to its higher cost, newer technology, etc) while the A10 seems to be more of a "novice's" TV for people on a lesser budget. Rather snobbish really! After spending many months of waiting and mis-fires it feels like I should be getting something newer and more expensive than the A10.

At the risk of being flamed by certain people here, I have to admit that it was difficult to see a significant difference in the picture between the 50" 720p A10 and the 1080p SXRD at 10-12' away. And its not like I have bad eyesight, I'm actually 20/15 (I don't wear glasses) and have no trouble seeing artifacts, SSE, etc. Not being a true videophile it seems that the A10 renders a good enough picture for me and the wife.

Aside from the feeling that it would be nice to have the latest-and-greatest 1080p TV now it probably would make more sense to wait until next year (hopefully the SXRDs will have a more attractive design and 1080p inputs, etc) at which time I could relocate the A10 to another room and get a bigger 1080p SXRD set.

Oh, and my wife really wants us to keep the A10 and pass on the SXRD! She's already decided how she would like us to spend the $1500 we would save!

Remember: we're considering only the 50" screen size. It would be a whole other matter if we were wanting to go with 60".

Decisions! Decisions!

I pretty much agree with you...so I am confused why you are still considering dumping the A-10. :D My theory is to buy the A-10 with stand now for $2399, keep it a couple years or so, and then upgrade to an improved version of the SXRD for around $2200, or even less, and sell the A-10 to a friend for a grand or so at that time. I still find the biggest issue with all these TV's is the variability in the quality of HD shows, not the technology of the TV's themselves. So even if I bought the SXRD, I would still not be wowed all the time. The A-10 is almost amazing on the best quality shows.

ThorsHammer

10-06-05, 03:18 PM

AlanBuck

10-06-05, 03:26 PM

Really thinking about buying the 60"...currently have the 60" we610...and have 2 questions.

1 - is there a significant picture improvement between the 2 models?

2 - unfortunately, can't stand the look of the new model...would there be anything wrong with painting the dumbo ears a matte black to match the black on the set?

The 60 inch SXRD is quite a lot better than the other 60 inch Sony's. (Of course it's quite a lot more cash too, and the A-20 is not a bad TV at all). As for the speakers, you would have to be careful in painting them to avoid getting paint in the speaker grilles. Also, the bezel around the screen on the SXRD is unfortunately a a SHINY black. I would just leave things alone if I was you. If you ever needed to return it as a lemon, you would be in trouble if you modified it in any way.

donn77

10-06-05, 03:29 PM

Boscov's just called me . My 60" sxrd will be delivered on 10/11. With my purchase of the extended warranty a serviceman will do the initial set-up but I bet that will take a week from the delivery date based on past experience. Now is it best to have the tv serviceman come first or have the cable company hd box installed first?

AlanBuck

10-06-05, 03:32 PM

jkv4

10-06-05, 03:33 PM

You seem to be saying Sharper = BAD and Softer = GOOD.

I never said the SXRD had a soft look. I have not seen the SXRD in person but judging from the Qualia I will definitly say it was smooth looking. It was also sharp but I felt the 60XBR950 LCD looked sharper, but the Qualia had more detail in the picture. The reason I think the LCD "looks" sharper is because it has less pixels and the grid gives it a sharper look, it also gives it SDE. The SXRD has twice as many pixels and has no SDE and the picture looks smoother not soft.

snatch

10-06-05, 03:37 PM

We've still got a 70" XBR on display and are putting the new SXRD right next to it. I'll have to do a comparison and see.

pschwartz

10-06-05, 03:41 PM

What is SSE? I know SDE- screen door effect (visible pixel structure). I don't know what SSE is?

I've done a search and can't find any explinations, just references. Can anyone give a quick answer to this question? Just trying to keep up...

ThorsHammer

10-06-05, 03:45 PM

Alan, thanks....shiny black? What the hell are those design guys thinking?

First, they should have made the side speakers either detachable or on pivots so they could be tucked back against the set...and when you use black it should be flat or matte. I would be willing to bet that the majority of people that own these sets don't even use the speakers...I know I never have.

That said, I love the HD picture and most premium channels on my current set. It is hard to imagine a picture being much better than that...really looking forward to seeing one of these sets in person.

A couple of other things while I am ranting;

...does it p*ss anyone else off that so many channels are available in high def but your provider doesn't offer them? I get CBS, NBC, INHD 1+2, Show, HBO, Discovery, ESPN and PBS....but can't get ABC, FOX, ESPN2, or the 3-4 other channels that are available in high def. My provider - Cox - always says they are in "negotiations"...which means in 6 months to 2 years. What's the holdup? Tell me how much more it costs and I'm in...once you've watched sports, or CSI, or Discovery in high def it's hard to go back.

....is it just my paranoid mind or does regular programming look much, much better at nite than it does in the daytime? Is it possible for them to try and save $ during the day by limiting bandwidth and then pumping it up at nite? Is this even possible? Because there sure is a difference where I live in the quality of the picture after 6.

Thanks...I feel better now, lol.

ThorsHammer

10-06-05, 03:52 PM

Btw - Dr. Plasma has them in stock for $3800...http://www.drprojector.com/itemdesc.asp?CartId=13440674ORAYV-EVEREST-59&ic=KDSR60XBR1

AlanBuck

10-06-05, 04:03 PM

Ok, I think see where the confusion is. I mixed up "soft" with "smooth". I would agree that the SXRD is "smoother" than the A10 and that the A10 is "sharper" than the SXRD. Maybe this is similar to preferring the "sharper" picture of a HD2(+) DLPs (I came to the A10 from a HD2-equipped Samsung 50" DLP) over the "smoother" picture of the "wobbulated" HD3/HD4 720p DLPs.

The only DLP I ever liked was the ones using the HD2+ chip. But even then I see rainbows, so the Sony's of both types are better for me.

gweempose

10-06-05, 04:24 PM

I love the HD picture and most premium channels on my current set. It is hard to imagine a picture being much better than that...really looking forward to seeing one of these sets in person.You don't fully realize just how much of an impact black level has on overall picture quality until you see it for yourself. The SXRD's superb black level makes the picture seem so much more punchy and dynamic. I was happy with HD on my Pioneer plasma until I got the SXRD. Now the Pioneer picture seems dull in comparison.

CSonntag

10-06-05, 04:30 PM

We've still got a 70" XBR on display and are putting the new SXRD right next to it. I'll have to do a comparison and see.

Hey Snatch (how fun is THAT to say? :D ), what cc do you work at?

AlanBuck

10-06-05, 04:32 PM

You don't fully realize just how much of an impact black level has on overall picture quality until you see it for yourself. The SXRD's superb black level makes the picture seem so much more punchy and dynamic. I was happy with HD on my Pioneer plasma until I got the SXRD. Now the Pioneer picture seems dull in comparison.

When you have the SXRD set for good black levels, does black crush (lack of detail in dark clothing etc. ) set in? On the A-10 you have to be careful how to balance the iris, and black corrector, and advanced iris settings to avoid this.

yardman

10-06-05, 04:57 PM

AlanBuck

10-06-05, 05:05 PM

Moving up from an XBR 32” to the SXRD 50” and now seeing for my self all the distortions that I have been reading about I can say faithfully this display can do it all, clay face, moving blacks, pixilation, blurring as the screen moves, even SSE. It appears to me that the PQ is limited right now to my signal and not any limitation of the display. Garbage in garbage out! SSE I found changes with the quality and resolution of the signal. Maybe it’s worse at 720 on this TV and practically gone with 1080, I don’t know but it comes and goes with the signal quality.

While I agree that there is a large variability in PQ from show to show, I don't agree the SSE is at all variable. Since it comes from the design of the screen itself, there no way it can change with signal quality etc. It is more obvious on lighter scenes like sky or snow, but it is always present, and not affected by the quality of the source at all in my opinion. If it was souce related, why don't we see it on conventional, or plasma TV's?

Frank Aurora

10-06-05, 05:09 PM

Good point. All of the 1080p sets are claiming better black levels. Lew
Does anyone have any data on the 1080p Toshiba ? & how it stacks up against the JVC
& XRD ?

snatch

10-06-05, 05:17 PM

Hey Snatch (how fun is THAT to say? :D ), what cc do you work at?

Down here in the Valley- Fresno. I'm dreading my Bulldogs upcoming throttling by USC. So much promise too...

Anyway, we still have two of the 70" XBR left. It was gone, when two brand new ones showed up out of nowhere. So we unboxed em and have em on display for someone to buy. To the right is the 67" 1080p Samsung, and to the left is the new 60" SXRD. I have yet to see the SXRD on as it was put up last night and I'm off today. Can't wait to see it tomorrow.

I don't know who all has seen the 1080p DLP, but compared to the XBR LCD it blows it away. The LCD looks 'soft' compared to it. Not to mention black levels etc of course, but with all the talk of sharpness, the DLP is much more detailed and refined looking compared to the XBR. I imagine the SXRD will look sharper also.

ptwat

10-06-05, 06:21 PM

Ok, this will be ok then....

My HDMI from the DVD runs through the receiver sending Video to the TV and Sound to the Receiver...

Then my DVI-HDMI from the CPU runs directly to the TV, but Optical SPDIF in/out going to the receiver...

Seems like I'm covered. Thanks for the response.

-Arv
Out of curiosity, what type of receiver do you have?

djwilso

10-06-05, 06:44 PM

Btw - Dr. Plasma has them in stock for $3800...http://www.drprojector.com/itemdesc.asp?CartId=13440674ORAYV-EVEREST-59&ic=KDSR60XBR1

Hmmmm - thanks, but, I don't know... Website is pretty cheesy. Doesn't even have a Search function that I could see.

Even the ShopSunshine site was a little more professional-looking than this one, and that's not a compliment.

I wonder what sort of after-sale service and support could be expected from an outfit like this.

Dennis

roller11

10-06-05, 07:59 PM

Yes, the variable quality of HD programming is definitely a factor. As I discovered when I had the Samsung 5078, very good source material looks great at 1080p but it also shows up all of the flaws (especially blocking) in poorer quality source material. There are times when I see certain HD programs (such as King Of Queens and Two and a Half Men on CBS) that aren't great HD quality and I think there's something wrong with my TV but then it can be followed by a much better quality HD program (such as Yes, Dear or How I Met Your Mother on CBS) that looks great!

I couldn't agree more. Tuesday night set a new low in PQ on CBS, "NCIS".
NCIS has always been one of the grainiest, Tues it was downright awful.

I've always wondered why Yes Dear looks so good, and NCIS , 2.5 Men, et al
look so bad. I called KCNC programming and the lady I talked to gave
me some insight. she said CBS contracts with various studios, (like Universal,
Roadshow, Lighthouse) , to produce these shows. I'll bet you anything
that Yes Dear, Still Standing, Joan of Arcadia (R.I.P), Listen Up (R.I.P.)
How I Met Your Mother all use the same studio. Unfortunately,
the non-grainy shows are outnumbered by the poor quality grainy shows
about 3 to one.
Did you see Mayday Sunday night, it was awesome! Also, Saturday Night Live
is in HD and it looks fantastic.

This year for the first time I notice a degradation in HD quality on CBS NFL games
in HD. Now there is a definite 'halo' around the players when shot from
the normal full scene camera. Some games have this artifact, some
don't. The first Patriot game had it, the Denver-San Diego game did not,
and so far none of the Saturday SEC games in HD have not had this
flaw. The bad thing is that in previous years CBS HD football has not had
this screwup, so CBS has taken a big step backwards in PQ.

roller11

10-06-05, 08:16 PM

While I agree that there is a large variability in PQ from show to show, I don't agree the SSE is at all variable.

Agreed, SSE is clearly an artifact of the microdisplay.

While I totally agree with your view that the program material is
highly variable, I disagree with the implication the PQ characteristics
of the display don't matter cause they are "masked off" by poor quality
program material.
First, some progs such as Yes Dear, Leno, Letterman etc.are first rate and allow the full
quality of the set to come shinging through. especially the 2005 season,
I've noticed that many of the new shows (Threshold, Surface, Criminal Minds
and a few others) are better PQ than the shows they replaced. These examples,
while not quite up to Yes Dear, are still very good and greatly benefit a top quality display. So even if the really ugly shows like
NCIS don't show a difference between 1920x1080 vs 1280x720, there are plenty other shows that do.

CFoote

10-06-05, 08:52 PM

Down here in the Valley- Fresno. I'm dreading my Bulldogs upcoming throttling by USC. So much promise too...

Anyway, we still have two of the 70" XBR left. It was gone, when two brand new ones showed up out of nowhere. So we unboxed em and have em on display for someone to buy. To the right is the 67" 1080p Samsung, and to the left is the new 60" SXRD. I have yet to see the SXRD on as it was put up last night and I'm off today. Can't wait to see it tomorrow.

I don't know who all has seen the 1080p DLP, but compared to the XBR LCD it blows it away. The LCD looks 'soft' compared to it. Not to mention black levels etc of course, but with all the talk of sharpness, the DLP is much more detailed and refined looking compared to the XBR. I imagine the SXRD will look sharper also.

Snatch, did you guys get one of those hard drives from Mitsubishi with 1080p content on it? Can you try hooking it up to the SXRD via i.LINK to see if it works? :D :D :D

rahivictory

10-06-05, 09:12 PM

The A10 is going to look sharper because it has less pixels and lower fill factor than the SXRD. The SXRD will not look as sharp but will have twice the resolution and the fill factor is greater with the pixels compared to the LCD tech. This will give the SXRD a smoother look or softer look. The same thing applies when you compare the Panny 42 ED and HD plasmas, the ED is acutally sharper but the HD looks smoother and has more resolution.

Interesting, but how can less pixels make a picture sharper? Also, I defiently noticed more resolution on some hi def images on the A10. My wife saw it as well and kept asking me why I was interested in the SXRD when the A10 looked shaprer and more detailed. However, as I mentioned earlier, I did not have a chance to fiddle with the A10 and the SXRD to the extent that I really wanted to.

rahivictory

10-06-05, 09:18 PM

Seems backwards to me. I would have thought the higher 1080p resolution of the SXRD would result in a sharper picture than that of the 720p A10 but you seem to be saying that the 1080p will be softer than the 720p TV. Or, am I misunderstanding something here?

This doesn't make sense to me either. Increased pixel density should result in a sharper picture because you are increasing the amount of definition between images. Also, I can't understand the comment about Hi Def being softer than standard def. That certainly, hasn't been my observation...

drhill

10-06-05, 09:31 PM

nataraj

10-06-05, 09:35 PM

Uninvited Guest

10-06-05, 09:39 PM

jkv4

10-06-05, 09:54 PM

Interesting, but how can less pixels make a picture sharper? Also, I defiently noticed more resolution on some hi def images on the A10. My wife saw it as well and kept asking me why I was interested in the SXRD when the A10 looked shaprer and more detailed. However, as I mentioned earlier, I did not have a chance to fiddle with the A10 and the SXRD to the extent that I really wanted to.

Less pixels means more space between them and thats why you can see SDE on A10. This also gives the apperance of being sharper because you are seeing each pixel. With the SXRD there is double the pixels and resolution. You can't make out the pixels and there is no SDE. The picture is smoother and more detailed than the A10. You did not notice any more resolution on the A10 because the SXRD has double the resolution and will show more detail, the A10 might look sharper because of the edges on SDE but thats about it. Detail and resolution are different than sharp. Like I said a ED looks sharper than a HD when you stand about 8ft. from them because of the same reason SDE adds to the sharpness you are seeing. The HD models have more resolution and detail in the picture than a ED.

ehlarson

10-06-05, 10:19 PM

When UMR reviewed the Qualia 006 he found that the component inputs in particular had a lot of HF rolloff often overcompenstaed for by edge enhancement. TI dinged Sony at a show by comparing a DLP set to the Qualia showing the haloing artifacts this caused. Sony may have toned down the edge enhancement in the newer SXRDs/

This could lead to a soft picture. UMR may have found a tweak to change the filter settings. I would not be surprised if the XBR SXRD had the same characteristics.

Hoyt

10-06-05, 10:44 PM

Las Vegas here...

Just saw the SXRD 60 inch beside the 70 inch Qualia and the 60 inch Sony 3LCD.

SXRD picture looked just like the Qualia. Was definately a step up from the 3LCD.

I'm not a fan at all of DLP's as I personally don't like how the images appear (purely personal preference) so I didn't compare those...

Anyway... Bought it... Delivery on Saturday.

CaveCanem

10-07-05, 12:52 AM

Less pixels means more space between them and thats why you can see SDE on A10. This also gives the apperance of being sharper because you are seeing each pixel. With the SXRD there is double the pixels and resolution. You can't make out the pixels and there is no SDE. The picture is smoother and more detailed than the A10. You did not notice any more resolution on the A10 because the SXRD has double the resolution and will show more detail, the A10 might look sharper because of the edges on SDE but thats about it. Detail and resolution are different than sharp. Like I said a ED looks sharper than a HD when you stand about 8ft. from them because of the same reason SDE adds to the sharpness you are seeing. The HD models have more resolution and detail in the picture than a ED.

jkv4,

Couldn't upscaling and deinterlacing a 720p or 1080i signal to 1080p have the same effect of softening or smoothing a picture?

Wouldn't a 720p signal be sharper on a native 720p set, than it would be upscaled to a native 1080p set? (In somewhat the same way that SD looks better on a SD set, than it does on an HD set.)

Any word on what process Sony uses to Deinterlace? (Surely not what some 720p sets use, which is deinterlacing/upscaling a 540 field in a 1080i frame, then simply discarding the other field. Or would this account for the softer, smoother look?)

Lots of questions that are hard to find answers to.

Thanks,

CC

jkv4

10-07-05, 01:45 AM

NetBum

10-07-05, 04:39 AM

he told me of future plans for SXRD sets and I have know placed my order for the current KDS-R60XBR1 to be delivered Sunday between 1:00-3:00pm...Sweet :D

Well,what did he say?
Did he say something that prompted you to ...buy now? :eek:

NB

jkv4

10-07-05, 04:50 AM

Well,what did he say?
Did he say something that prompted you to ...buy now? :eek:

NB

See the owners thread

yardman

10-07-05, 05:17 AM

Anyone else think the reason some are complaining about SXRD not being as sharp is because they have superior fill rate. Lower fill rate displays would have more pronounced borders around the pixels, so it's easier to see each individual pixel. This would cause edges to be more defined. Like edges in a cartoon. It isn't detailed sharpness, just percieved sharpness.

Entertain the idea for a moment, and I am just throwing this out to be investigated but if “Lower fill rate displays would have more pronounced borders around the pixels,” and “It isn't detailed sharpness, just perceived sharpness.” Then slide this pronounced borders picture across a screen with a pebble finish and could you get interference between the two. That is what I believe I see when I find SSE on my display. An interference between the frosted finish of the screen and some frequency of coarse signals. It come and goes and the lighter scenes do show it better but I have looked for it with a wow picture in the sky or other light colours and It is much harder to find. This might be all in my mind but I am sure (for the moment) all anomalies I have seen are transitory including SSE and SSE is screen dependent and not an effect of SDE. Just an early observation!

4K display

10-07-05, 06:36 AM

HomeGuy

10-07-05, 06:37 AM

Yo,

You guys have to go back and read the reviews of people who actually have the set in their homes. The reviews have been awesome with many coloful adjectives used to describe the set. If an A10 is what you want then buy it and move on but stop trying to convince yourself that the A10 is a better set. The SDE on the set is terrible and gets worse with the feed quality, the bl and cr is not in the same league. It's a nice set but............

JimP

10-07-05, 07:38 AM

Sound & Visions lab tests of the 50" indicate the picture from the HDMI inputs are sharper than the component inputs, something to keep in mind in the showroom as they will most likely be using component hook-up.
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=898

Good find!!!! :)

This is hopefully one of many articles that will actually provided objective information about what we are seeing.

I too observed what I would describe as softness, to the point where I would not consider upgrading my current TV. After reading the article, I would reconsider it. Problem is finding a demo with HDMI sourced signal. I think I also see issues in black levels when viewing scenes with mid APLs. Look forward to someone doing ANSI contrast measurements and black measurements at various APLs. I think what we'll find is that blacks on brighter scenes aren't all that black(and a tad blue).

HomeGuy,
Many people unfortunately don't know what they're looking at. They get a new TV and with the excitement overlook the details or simply don't know how it compares to other TVs. I'd rather take one person's informed opinion than 100 peoples' uninformed opinion. Problem is trying to find that one informed opinion.

You make a point about screen door effect. Although there is some comfort(actually a lot of comfort) at not seeing it close up, unless you normally view your display at that distance what difference would it make?

CFoote

10-07-05, 07:44 AM

Jim, do you have a laptop or something you could bring with you to the store to hook up? It seems like this might be the only way to see a good quality picture in the store...

JimP

10-07-05, 08:30 AM

Jim, do you have a laptop or something you could bring with you to the store to hook up? It seems like this might be the only way to see a good quality picture in the store...

If all it would take is a good laptop, that wouldn't be a problem. I just don't think that would be indicative of what you would normally see in your home through your OTA, satellite or cable receivers.

As much as I'd like to go ahead and pull the trigger on this set, I'm going to wait for some more technical reviews. As my only complaint with my GWIII is viewing dark content at night under low room lighting(the glowy blacks), I don't want to swap one problem for another.

rahivictory

10-07-05, 08:47 AM

I would have thought that sharper would be better. Is it not? The A10 does look sharper than the SXRD and the SXRD does produce a smoother (to paraphrase others and for want of a better word as I'm not exactly sure what that word means) more detailed picture than the A10. I'm having the same problem with my wife as rahivictory mentioned above. She also notices that the A10 is sharper and questions why I would want to spend $1500 more on the SXRD for what apepars to be a less sharp picture.

Dear AkaStp,

Make sure our wives talk, ok? It will only make matters worse for us. But seriously, with all the talk about sharpness and resolution and detail, I'm a bit lost. The truth is that when looking at the exact same HD looped feed on the A10 and the SXRD, there was more detail and "sharpness" on the A10. It wasn't because the SXRD was smoother, it looked like it just wasn't resolving as much detail and that is why my wife complained. We were looking at a scene where they pan across this old farmhouse that looks like it's in Scotland or something, and the roof had a really unique structure. On the A10 you could make out all the details but on the SXRD you couldn't see them as well. It was certainly smoother and softer, but it also lacked the detail. I still think the picture quality was outstanding, and the black levels make up for most of the SXRDs faults, but I'm a value kind of guy to some extent and even I'm having trouble justifying the cost of this set when it's got a fair bit of SSE and looks like it has less detail.

I think the key is to spend a lot of time with the set and tweak it to see if this helps. I had initially turned down the sharpness. Turning it up improved the picture considerably, but I didn't watch the same feed again, so I couldn't compare the two TVs after adjustments.

Axel Olmos

10-07-05, 08:47 AM

I saw the 50" at Fry's in Concord, CA. WOW! I walked through the whole HDTV area before I hit the SXRD. It really stood out from all the rest. It's a moment I'll remember for a long time- the picture quality was so good, it visually pimp slapped me. Then I ran into the "Captain Kirk" 50" Samsung 1080P, which appeared to be of similar picture quality. They weren't side by side, so comparisons were tough, and who knows what the settings were on both. If the 70" SXRD were in stock and had 1080P inputs, I would have bought it on the spot.

I think at this point finding differences between the 1080P DLP's and 1080P SXRD's is going to require test patterns and a more scientific analysis. The first glance impressions is that they are very similar, and I haven't had that impression in previous generations of sets.

rahivictory

10-07-05, 08:59 AM

On the owner's thread one of the poster's has details about next years SXRD models. Apparently they're going to be using the heavy glass panel instead of the current one. I'm assuming that this may mitigate some of the SSE or blurring around the edges of bright images that I was seeing from all that I've read.

My question though, is doesn't a glass front make for an incredibly reflective surface? I already find the current SXRD panel to be quite reflective. If it's only going to get worse, I may on balance decide that it makes more sense to buy the current units instead of waiting for next year's model.

Can anyone offer advice? Has anyone noticed this reflectivity (is that a word?) on the Qualia, which I believe has the glass panel?

AlanBuck

10-07-05, 09:10 AM

Agreed, SSE is clearly an artifact of the microdisplay.

While I totally agree with your view that the program material is
highly variable, I disagree with the implication the PQ characteristics
of the display don't matter cause they are "masked off" by poor quality
program material.
First, some progs such as Yes Dear, Leno, Letterman etc.are first rate and allow the full
quality of the set to come shinging through. especially the 2005 season,
I've noticed that many of the new shows (Threshold, Surface, Criminal Minds
and a few others) are better PQ than the shows they replaced. These examples,
while not quite up to Yes Dear, are still very good and greatly benefit a top quality display. So even if the really ugly shows like
NCIS don't show a difference between 1920x1080 vs 1280x720, there are plenty other shows that do.

On the topic of variable HD quality, have any of you seen 'Seabiscuit' or 'I-Robot' on HBO's HD feed? They are both AMAZING PQ. These would be awesome to judge the capablities of any TV. I just have the 'lowly' A-10, and I was floored when I recorded these on my DVR, and played them back. I could only wish that a lot more TV shows looked half as good as these do! Most HBO movies don't look nearly this good, even recently released ones. New SXRD owners need to watch these, and report back to us.

drhill

10-07-05, 09:10 AM

I don't think so. DLPs look sharp enough ...

DLP's fill rate isn't close to LCOS.

If I remember correctly, and I'm probably off a bit. LCD is high 50's low 60's, DLP is in the 70's, and Sony's SXRD is 92 or 94%.

Of course what really matters is that you get the TV you think looks the best and are happy with. I'll be happy when I get a call from tweeter later today with a delivery date.

I actually wanted to post my previous message a few days ago, and more eloquently, but I kept saying to myself, "screw it".

drhill

10-07-05, 09:14 AM

Entertain the idea for a moment, and I am just throwing this out to be investigated but if “Lower fill rate displays would have more pronounced borders around the pixels,” and “It isn't detailed sharpness, just perceived sharpness.” Then slide this pronounced borders picture across a screen with a pebble finish and could you get interference between the two. That is what I believe I see when I find SSE on my display. An interference between the frosted finish of the screen and some frequency of coarse signals. It come and goes and the lighter scenes do show it better but I have looked for it with a wow picture in the sky or other light colours and It is much harder to find. This might be all in my mind but I am sure (for the moment) all anomalies I have seen are transitory including SSE and SSE is screen dependent and not an effect of SDE. Just an early observation!

Got me. Interesting idea though, if I'm reading it correctly. SSE doesn't bother me really, though SDE absolutely kills me.

Uninvited Guest

10-07-05, 09:23 AM

JimL

10-07-05, 09:28 AM

rahivictory

10-07-05, 09:29 AM

Looked for SXRD

Found SXRD

HD was STUNNING!!!!!!!

SD from D* was horrendous (worse than the plasmas/dlp right beside it) (90% of my current viewing is still SD)

Will keep and appreciate my current 36XBR a while longer

Interesting, because most of us who have seen the SXRDs thought that it did a better job with SD than any of the other competing formats. Did you adjust any of the settings?

Rahi

R Harkness

10-07-05, 09:41 AM

Interesting, because most of us who have seen the SXRDs thought that it did a better job with SD than any of the other competing formats.

Rahi

I agree. Upon seeing the Qualia 006 for the first time, after being impressed by the HD image I was further very impressed by it's performance with SD signals. I had never seen SD scaled to such a large size, so smoothly.

snaggs

10-07-05, 09:54 AM

Softer = BAD!

Thats a very dumb comment, you can use a heap of sharpening on an image and you'll get loads of white halos and artifactsm, but it will look "sharper". Sharpness has nothing to do with resolution.

Daniel.

snaggs

10-07-05, 09:58 AM

Thats not true. Low megapixels P&S shithouse cameras apply a ton of sharpening to make the picture look artificially punchy, trying to cover up all the defects.

All the pro cameras use less sharpening, most pro's turn all in camera sharpening up. You can always tell a newbies photos, they sharpen the hell out of it and destroy the picture.

Daniel.

Not sure I buy this one. A digital photograph is SHARPER, and more detailed from a higher pixel count camera, than a lower one. The same should apply to TV's. The SXRD should have a sharper, AND more detailed picture than than the A-10. Following your logic should mean that HDTV is not as sharp as regular TV...which we all know is NOT the case. Samsung used that 'film like' bull to mask the fact the the HD-3 wobbulated chip had a fuzzy, and poorly defined picture. I tried one at home, and felt like my eyesight had gone bad. I surely hope that the SXRD doesn't have that kind of PQ. I sure didn't feel that way about it at CEDIA. The A-10 is very detailed at normal viewing distances to my eye.

rlb

10-07-05, 10:07 AM

Does the quality of HBO HD played back from the DVR look the same as the original broadcast? What type of DVR are you using? Is it connected via HDMI or firewire?

Digital recording (of digital input) should provide the exact image as the original (i.e., it's only recording 0's and 1's).

AlanBuck

10-07-05, 11:06 AM

Does the quality of HBO HD played back from the DVR look the same as the original broadcast? What type of DVR are you using? Is it connected via HDMI or firewire?

It is the Motorola DVR from Comcast. Picture looks identical to live viewing. I have it connected DVI to HDMI.

empire_of_one

10-07-05, 11:12 AM

Digital recording (of digital input) should provide the exact image as the original (i.e., it's only recording 0's and 1's).

Unless it's compressing the signal further to save it to disk. With most DVRs, you're always watching a recorded signal anyway (to allow for pausing and rewinding live TV), so you wouldn't notice the difference between watching a show "live" and watching it later from the DVR menu. But you might notice a difference between a DVR unit and a non-DVR unit if the DVR is compressing the feed. I don't know if any DVRs do that or not.

aaronwt

10-07-05, 11:21 AM

DLP's fill rate isn't close to LCOS.

If I remember correctly, and I'm probably off a bit. LCD is high 50's low 60's, DLP is in the 70's, and Sony's SXRD is 92 or 94%.

Of course what really matters is that you get the TV you think looks the best and are happy with. I'll be happy when I get a call from tweeter later today with a delivery date.

I actually wanted to post my previous message a few days ago, and more eloquently, but I kept saying to myself, "screw it".
The DLP fill rate is around 88%.
The LCD fill rate is around 83%.

CSonntag

10-07-05, 12:19 PM

Dear AkaStp,
...
I think the key is to spend a lot of time with the set and tweak it to see if this helps. I had initially turned down the sharpness. Turning it up improved the picture considerably, but I didn't watch the same feed again, so I couldn't compare the two TVs after adjustments.

OK, I have a question: On a microdisplay, how is the sharpness modulated? I can see on a CRT how sharpness is controlled and adjusted through the amount of voltage being fed to the phosphors (I believe), but how is this accomplished in a microdisplay like the SXRD?

Inuitively, it seems like the edge of the pixel is the edge of the pixel, and nothing can be done to adjust how it react to light from the lamp.

Uninvited Guest

10-07-05, 12:40 PM

Digital recording (of digital input) should provide the exact image as the original (i.e., it's only recording 0's and 1's).I didn't know if the DVR applies a lossy compression algorithm to save disk space thus sacrificing picture quality.

roller11

10-07-05, 12:40 PM

On the topic of variable HD quality, have any of you seen 'Seabiscuit' or 'I-Robot' on HBO's HD feed? They are both AMAZING PQ. These would be awesome to judge the capablities of any TV. I just have the 'lowly' A-10, and I was floored when I recorded these on my DVR, and played them back. I could only wish that a lot more TV shows looked half as good as these do! Most HBO movies don't look nearly this good, even recently released ones. New SXRD owners need to watch these, and report back to us.

No, unfortunately I only get HD via an OTA antenna. That's because my cable
provider, Comcast, has seen fit to deny the citizens of Longmont , Colorado
HDTV. As to Satellite, two problems:
1. they don't offer a DVR, anything I can't record is worthless.
2. they don't have ABC

So no, I haven't seen the above mentioned films but many thanks for the
tip. When/if Comcast decides to stop denying me HDTV, I'll get cable
and these will be on the top of my list.

Uninvited Guest

10-07-05, 12:41 PM

It is the Motorola DVR from Comcast. Picture looks identical to live viewing. I have it connected DVI to HDMI.Thanks. Cox uses the SA 8300HD. I hope it's the same.

roller11

10-07-05, 12:44 PM

OK, I have a question: On a microdisplay, how is the sharpness modulated? I can see on a CRT how sharpness is controlled and adjusted through the amount of voltage being fed to the phosphors (I believe), but how is this accomplished in a microdisplay like the SXRD?

Actually, in a CRT, the voltage is fed to the grids, and the resulting
electron beam is focused and accelerated to the phosphors.

gweempose

10-07-05, 12:47 PM

Unless it's compressing the signal further to save it to disk. With most DVRs, you're always watching a recorded signal anyway (to allow for pausing and rewinding live TV), so you wouldn't notice the difference between watching a show "live" and watching it later from the DVR menu. But you might notice a difference between a DVR unit and a non-DVR unit if the DVR is compressing the feed. I don't know if any DVRs do that or not.DVR's always record the digital channels bit for bit yielding a perfect copy of the original broadcast. This goes for HD as well as SD digital channels. When recording an analog channel, the DVR must compress the signal on the fly. In this case, the quality of the recording will vary based on what bit rate is used.

drhill

10-07-05, 01:15 PM

The DLP fill rate is around 88%.
The LCD fill rate is around 83%.
Thanks. I stand corrected.

AEC

10-07-05, 01:21 PM

I was at Gramophone on Wednesday afternoon in Columbia, MD. They were doing a Sony "roadshow". I got to see the 50 and 60" SXRD as well as the 50" side by side w/the Mits 1080 50" DLP. The 60" SXRD was connected to HDTV and a Blu-Ray DVD. Let me start there. The Blu-Ray demo disc had only two movie trailers on it. The one I stayed for was Spiderman. The picture was unlike anything I have ever seen on a DVD. HD-DVD is absolutley stunning and it galls me to think I may end up replacing some of my almost 200 dvds w/HD-DVDs. But I was really taken aback by the picture quality. Back to the SXRD. I have to say that the comparisons were difficult at best, impossible at its' worst - they were running Comcast HD and we were watching HD Discovery (or one of the earthy crunchy HD nature channels). The Sony trainer was in the room w/the salesman, myself and another customer. The SXRD did exhibit SSE. Sorry, I saw it on the 60" and 50", and stepped back to compensate for normal viewing distances. That said, I was looking for it. Once I started watching something to look for color, clarity, depth, it was not an issue. The SXRD seemed to look more 3 dimensional in open scenes than the Mits. Kind of hard to explain. The Mits had a much harder time w/reds (seemed more orange) and the Sony seemed to put a bluish tinge to some scenes. Not a lot, but enough that it was noticeable and the Sony guy was tweaking the picture to get it as realistic as possible. Even he admitted that the picture of both sets was excellent and it comes down to personal preference. The remote of the Sony was ergonomically better than the Mits and I think the Sony had more choice on inputs. Each set has pluses or minuses and some have nothing to do w/picture, but more to do w/the remote, the ease of settings in the menu, the look and size of the cabinet of each one, etc. I haven't made up my mind yet and will end up resorting to bringing my wife in to look. My wife will probably like the Mits because the cabinet is all black and sleeker w/speakers on the bottom and unobtrusive. I have a viewing distance of 11-12 ft in a 16x19 room and am considering the 50 or 52" but wondering if the 60/62" would overwhelm my family room. Ultimately, coming home with either set (not that they had anything other than a demo of the SXRD in the store - late October til November for delivery) would not be a bad thing. Me, I think a good breeze will blow me over the fence for either one. My 2 cents.

CSonntag

10-07-05, 01:22 PM

Actually, in a CRT, the voltage is fed to the grids, and the resulting
electron beam is focused and accelerated to the phosphors.
Great, thanks for the clarification...I had a feeling I was being too simplistic. :p But my original question still stands: how do microdisplays modulate sharpness?

dr_jason

10-07-05, 01:40 PM

I always love the discussions between home owners of a particular TV set in an ideal environment and store viewers comparing potential multiple TV's in less than optimal circumtances. Having the 50" SXRD for a few days now, it significantly beats my ISF'd HD2 Sammy in almost every visual parameter from any viewing distance in my living room (up to 50'). I can't imagine a better picture. While viewing the Qualia and its' competitors strung along the Hi-Fi buys show floor a couple of weeks before getting the baby SXRD, the differences I saw were less significant, much less dramatic. I think the technologies are very competitive now and the differences are shrinking when you compare properly set-up TV's in their ideal enviroments. I think the limiting factor in my picture viewing experience is the sparse 720/1080 material worth watching. Most of my TV watching is low res stuff that doesn't cause my set to even break a sweat.

atl001

10-07-05, 01:55 PM

I am probably returning my new Panasonic Plasma due to sub par performance when used with any of my computers. The best I can do is connecting via a DVI to HDMI cable, and driving at 1080i. I get some fringing on text, and photos look soft. I think this is due to scaling.

Now, since the SXRD is 1080p internally, if I feed it 1080i, it does not need to scale, it just needs to deinterlace. In theory, the picutre quality would be better. Has anyone tried this?

Also, how well does the PC input work. It apparently can not do the native res. Are text and photos sharp? Are the colors correct?

I am considering the 50" model SXRD.

Thanks,
Drew

PaulGo

10-07-05, 02:56 PM

AEC, I would try the larger set because the 1080p would be lost on a 50" or 52" set at that viewing distance.

empire_of_one

10-07-05, 03:05 PM

I was at Gramophone on Wednesday afternoon in Columbia, MD...

I was there last night and they still have both the 50" and 60" set up. I believe these are production models, though they may only have the two for store display at the moment. I didn't ask about delivery dates because they're asking MSRP and I plan on paying less than that.

Based on what I saw last night, I can see why some people think there's not much difference between the SXRD and A10, while others think the SXRD blows the LCDs away. The 50", sitting next to the Mits, wasn't that amazing. It definitely looked good, but it was in a brighter room than the 60" and was set up to look brighter as a result. In this environment, there wasn't much noticable difference between the set and an A10 until you got pretty close. The room was not overly bright, but it was bright enough to make black level determination difficult. I did think blacks were slightly darker than the 1080p Mits sitting next to it, and the blacks on the Mits had a slight greenish tinge to them whereas the SXRD blacks were true. I didn't do an exhaustive comparison between the Mits and SXRD, because the rainbows make DLPs a no-go for me, but my general impression was that in the 50" size the PQ between the two sets was comparable. Ultimately, at 50" and at a distance beyond 9-10' or so, the SXRD has little to recommend it over an A10.

The 60" set up in a different room was another story. That room was much darker, and in that environment and the larger screen size, the SXRD's advantages became much more apparent. The blacks were excellent, and the picture was very smooth (not soft) and detailed. I saw no motion artifacts or anything of that sort. SDE was non-existent. I put my nose as close as I could without smudging the screen and still couldn't make out the individual pixels (I couldn't make out the pixels on the Mits 1080p either, though I can see them on the Qualia when I'm up close enough). I viewed some DiscoveryHD which looked very detailed, not soft in the least. I also viewed some of MIB 2 on DVD which looked very good. After viewing HD for a good 15-20 minutes, DVD seemed a bit soft, but no more so than on any other large-screen RPTV I've seen. I don't believe the blu-ray demo was still there on Thursday night, so I didn't see that. Frankly, in a dark viewing environment, this set looks just like a sharply-detailed, perfectly-converged CRT. The only thing that gives it away as not a CRT is the SSE.

If it weren't for the SSE, this set would be pretty much perfect. I found the SSE to be noticable, especially if you're looking for it, but it seemed somewhat less than on an LCD. Compared to the XS955 I had or my parents' WF655, the SSE doesn't pop out as much. Most of the time you wouldn't notice it unless you looked for it, though it does become quite obvious on the right content, such as very bright whites or movement against a solid colored background. Brightness also affected it, the 50" which was set up brighter had more SSE than the 60" which, in a dark room by itself, had a lower overall brightness. There's still enough SSE to be bothersome, especially if you're sensitive to it, but other than the Qualia I don't think you could find any microdisplay with less SSE.

It seems that if you want to judge the SXRD, you really have to see it in a proper environment. Seeing it in most showrooms probably wouldn't bring out the best qualities of the set. A place like Gramophone, where they have a whole dark room devoted to the set, is a much better place to judge. I would have a hard time justifying the extra expense of the 50" SXRD over an A10, unless I did a lot of dark-room viewing or would be sitting inside 10' or so. But in the 60" size, the SXRD really shines and I don't think there's a better RPTV in this size available. I do prefer the Qualia, but that's mostly due to the diminished SSE, in all other respects the SXRD is it's equal.

empire_of_one

10-07-05, 03:09 PM

YES! I've been doing some similar experiments to try and better understand the SSE situation and its apparent dependency on picture quality (noise or very fine blocking types of artifacts in a poorer quality picture can look a lot like SSE).

I saw this last night looking at the SXRD. During MIB 2, on a character's white shirt that was not bright enough to cause SSE, I could see noise in the white area that could easily be mistaken for SSE. I could still tell the difference, but I would imagine that the combination of that noise with SSE on a brighter scene might make it look like the SSE was even worse than it normally is.

InterceptPoint

10-07-05, 03:15 PM

Just got back from Fry's in Anaheim just off the 91 Freeway. They have SXRDs in stock and one sitting right next to a 1080p Samsung. Sorry Samsung, Sony is eating your lunch with their picture. The Dumbo Ears spoil it for me but the picture is the best on the floor.

Ask for Daniel and tell him you heard about it on the AVS forum. It won't help you negotiate a better price but it will impress him with the power of AVS Forum word of mouth.

dr_jason

10-07-05, 03:24 PM

AEC: The size of the screen is really a personal preference despite what THX etc say is appropriate. Movie theaters aren't built with one row of seats. I sit 10-12 feet away from my 50", I enjoy its' size and do appreciate the 1080p difference over the A10. It's subtle and less easy to describe why but with not factoring in cost, SXRD was my choice. The difference becomes more evident the longer you spend time with the sets. My friend with the A10 notices the difference and prefers the SXRD. Plus when I get this itch in two years to buy a new one, I will have a much easier time putting this TV in a smaller room (like bedroom) and having it blend in, rather than an unacceptably larger TV donated to some family member who has the room for it. Lucky for them I guess. I already have one kissing up.

roller11

10-07-05, 07:27 PM

I saw this last night looking at the SXRD. During MIB 2, on a character's white shirt that was not bright enough to cause SSE, I could see noise in the white area that could easily be mistaken for SSE. I could still tell the difference, but I would imagine that the combination of that noise with SSE on a brighter scene might make it look like the SSE was even worse than it normally is.

SSE can't be mistaked for noise for two simple reason: "noise" or "graininess"
as I like to call it is dynamic, moving. Like tiny dots moving around.
SSE on the other hand is static, you almost have to refocus your vision
to a different distance to see it, and you typically don't see it unless you are looking for it. Also, SSE is not program material dependent, it is always there,
in all programs. How
prominent it is only depends on the color and brightness of the area in which
you are looking. But it's there in every program all the time. It's equally
bad in Still Standing as it is in NCIS.
Noise on the other hand is totally program dependent. You won't see noise at all
on Yes Dear, Still Standing, Leno, SNL, Letterman, Office (NBC) and a few other programs.
It is extremely bad on NCIS, King of QUeens, 2.5 Men, ER and many other
CBS progs, and all FOX HD except Bernie Mac. Of the two, graininess is
a *much* much worse problem.

BTW, I was noticing while at UE in Boulder that the 42" DLP had SSE extremely
bad. The sales guy pointed out that the severity of SSE is inversely proportional to screen size, the smaller, the worse .

Rob Tomlin

10-07-05, 07:33 PM

SmacknCA

10-07-05, 07:43 PM

Checked the Fry's in Woodland Hills, CA and I couldnt find it anywhere. So other than Anaheim does anyone in SoCal know where they are up for display? Maybe one of the Magnolias?

steve ans

10-07-05, 07:52 PM

I agree about SSE/.You see it when, for example, therte is a bright blue sky. Your eyes seem to lose focus on the image and instead focus on a layer in between the sky and your eyes. It is like looking at sheer fabric for the moment that you have a bright, light solid background.

roller11

10-07-05, 07:53 PM

I have a viewing distance of 11-12 ft in a 16x19 room and am considering the 50 or 52" but wondering if the 60/62" would overwhelm my family room.

"overwhelm"...are you kidding?
I'm in a 12x10 foot room with 8' ceiling, and a viewing distance of 7', and I could actually go bigger
than my 61" DLP. For a distance of 11-12 feet, the 70" Qualia would come no
where near overwhelming.
People prefer an actual movie theater because the screen is big enough to make them feel immersed. Of course immersion is traded off against PQ because
the bigger/closer the screen, the less the pixel density so effectively you
lose resolution and PQ. The perfect compromise between these two
at-odds objectives is a viewing angle of 36 degrees, which means
at 11-12 feet we are talking about a 89" screen. That is the simple
reality of it, I think the "smaller is better" ppl are trying to justify their purchase.

Lord Flatus

10-07-05, 07:58 PM

My question though, is doesn't a glass front make for an incredibly reflective surface? I already find the current SXRD panel to be quite reflective. If it's only going to get worse, I may on balance decide that it makes more sense to buy the current units instead of waiting for next year's model.
When I was looking at the XBR950s a few months ago, I was thinking the same thing. A salesman-dude had a good spiel about it that I bought into: he said that the glass front reflected the light sources away more cleanly than the matte finish screens, resulting is less light diffusion on the screen itself, which ended up creating a brighter picture. In essence he was saying that the light reflected off the matte screen would brighten the screen from all angles while the glass screen would only brighten the place where the light was being directly reflected to. His comment was that if you had lamp or window lined up such that it reflected directly to your seating position, you would need to take care of that as it would be bad. (move the lamp or curtain the window) But that at home you have a limited number of actual light sources.

It made sense as the XBR950s did have the best picture, to me, of any other sets that I was looking at.

roller11

10-07-05, 08:01 PM

Dear AkaStp,

Make sure our wives talk, ok? It will only make matters worse for us. But seriously, with all the talk about sharpness and resolution and detail, I'm a bit lost. The truth is that when looking at the exact same HD looped feed on the A10 and the SXRD, there was more detail and "sharpness" on the A10.

I've always rejected the A10 because being a RP LCD, I assume it has
SDE which makes the PQ seem 'rough'. does the A10 have SDE
and is it 1920x1080 native res? Is there any RP LCD with 1920x1080?

stevel

10-07-05, 08:04 PM

A question for owners. The manual says 4" clearance to the rear. Are there vents on the vertical back that would be pushed against the wall if there were "no" clearance?

roller11

10-07-05, 08:07 PM

When I was looking at the XBR950s a few months ago, I was thinking the same thing. A salesman-dude had a good spiel about it that I bought into: he said that the glass front reflected the light sources away more cleanly than the matte finish screens, resulting is less light diffusion on the screen itself, which ended up creating a brighter picture. In essence he was saying that the light reflected off the matte screen would brighten the screen from all angles while the glass screen would only brighten the place where the light was being directly reflected to. His comment was that if you had lamp or window lined up such that it reflected directly to your seating position, you would need to take care of that as it would be bad. (move the lamp or curtain the window) But that at home you have a limited number of actual light sources.

It made sense as the XBR950s did have the best picture, to me, of any other sets that I was looking at.

I also buy this, based on a different experience. Years ago when I was shopping
for a computer monitor, I kept noticing how much better the monitors with
clear highly reflective glass looked vs the matte finish. This would explain it,
I think he is on to something.

gweempose

10-07-05, 08:10 PM

It seems that if you want to judge the SXRD, you really have to see it in a proper environment. Seeing it in most showrooms probably wouldn't bring out the best qualities of the set.You hit the nail right on the head. I was very impressed with the SXRD when I saw it at the store, but I was totally blown away by it once I got it home. To do the set justice, it needs to be in a controlled environment with a high quality feed. Once you tweak the sucker a bit, I find it hard to believe that anybody wouldn't be utterly amazed by what they saw.

yardman

10-07-05, 08:23 PM

SSE can't be mistaked for noise for two simple reason: "noise" or "graininess"
as I like to call it is dynamic, moving. Like tiny dots moving around.
SSE on the other hand is static, you almost have to refocus your vision
to a different distance to see it, and you typically don't see it unless you are looking for it. Also, SSE is not program material dependent, it is always there,
in all programs. How
prominent it is only depends on the color and brightness of the area in which
you are looking. But it's there in every program all the time. It's equally
bad in Still Standing as it is in NCIS.
Noise on the other hand is totally program dependent. You won't see noise at all
on Yes Dear, Still Standing, Leno, SNL, Letterman, Office (NBC) and a few other programs.
It is extremely bad on NCIS, King of QUeens, 2.5 Men, ER and many other
CBS progs, and all FOX HD except Bernie Mac. Of the two, graininess is
a *much* much worse problem.

BTW, I was noticing while at UE in Boulder that the 42" DLP had SSE extremely
bad. The sales guy pointed out that the severity of SSE is inversely proportional to screen size, the smaller, the worse .

Well I can only tell you what I see, mostly a silky, some times harsher like crushed ice or at times a shimmer floating at the screen surface above the movie. When it’s there (I am using a HDMI direct from the cable box ) I see it all the time, even in dark areas but in light areas you can’t miss it. But on some channels it nearly disappears ( I am being conservative here). The cable company’s HD demo loop channel for example and HDPBS broad cast I get up here. Are these better channels 1080I and the giant scotch tape looking screen’s pitch of grain is less noticeable by design with a 1080 but a 480p up converted by the cable system to 1080I can accent the flaw? Don’t want to ruffle any feathers here but I just wanted the subject explorded.

AnthemAVM

10-07-05, 08:59 PM

What type of discount in the way of percentage are people getting on the 60" TV?

Michael

wegafan

10-07-05, 09:06 PM

Well I can get a 10% off of the price. Pondering whether to go with the 60" or stay with my 42" A10 for awhile.

However, has anyone had any luck with 1080p via VGA? I hear it may need to go to powerstrip....

How is 720p over the sxrds? Is it worth sacrificing the 1080p? Is 720p just a simple plug up and go? I guess I would just go with Samsung 1080ps if it wasn't for the lip sync issue... I am big on have PCs run to my screen. That, and XBOX/XBOX 360.

InterceptPoint

10-07-05, 09:09 PM

Did they have the 50" or 60" model on the floor?

Pretty sure it is the 60.

InterceptPoint

10-07-05, 09:13 PM

Checked the Fry's in Woodland Hills, CA and I couldnt find it anywhere. So other than Anaheim does anyone in SoCal know where they are up for display? Maybe one of the Magnolias?

The sales guy at Fry's in Anaheim told me that they just got their shipment in yesterday (Thursday 6 October). They had several boxes with the big SXRD label on them sitting out on the floor. I think they expect to sell a ton of them. Ditto the Mitz 1080p.

I was a the Yorba Linda BB/Magnolia 3-4 days ago and they had zippo SXRDs at that time.

horseflesh

10-07-05, 10:10 PM

Magnolia in Bellevue WA has the 60" SXRD right next to the Mitsu 1080p DLP--same size, I think. On the other side of the SXRD is the 70" Qualia.

The source material wasn't very good though so I had a hard time evaluating the PQ. The SXRD was certainly nice, but basically on par with the new DLP next to it. Again, crummy source and I did not take the time to fiddle with any of the settings. (It didn't look as good as a 50" A10 I saw in Best Buy recently, if that tells you anything.)

The store had HD sat service split into all the sets on that wall. Not sure what it was, except I know it was not Dish Network, since that is what I have and I would recognize it. All the channels looked kind of overcompressed to me, but then again I am used to OTA HD on my 36" CRT. I was watching a ball game on ESPN HD and there was noise crawling all over the image. Yuck.

There was one channel that looked good, but the salesman couldn't leave it there because it was showing too much skin. Some kind of news show about girls gone wild. :)

Rob Tomlin

10-07-05, 11:02 PM

Pretty sure it is the 60.

Thanks. Will try to get by to see it early next week.

Blue 911

10-07-05, 11:38 PM

Excellent test results (http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=898) from Sound and Vision magazine.

umr

10-07-05, 11:45 PM

HomeGuy

10-08-05, 12:19 AM

I'm getting delivery tomorrow of a 60" SXRD set. Yeah baby. Just hooked up my HD Tivo too. It's all coming together. I'll have a full review soon.

maximum360

10-08-05, 12:20 AM

I'm placing my order tomorrow. It may be a while. :(

Gary_Kreie

10-08-05, 12:33 AM

Everyone has probably seen the .pdf manual online at Sonystyle for the KDS-R60XBR1/ KDS-R50XBR1.

http://www.docs.sony.com/release//KDSR50-60XBR1.pdf

But the set-up guide for the 50 and 60 is out there too -- just harder to find. (2 PAGES)

http://www.docs.sony.com/release//KDSR50-60XBR1_QS.pdf

Pretty interesting. This is probably the same one that comes in the box.

roller11

10-08-05, 12:50 AM

The A10 is a 720p TV. It does have SDE but that isn't really much of a problem if your viewing distance is > 8'. At this time there are no 1080p RP-LCD TVs, just DLPs, the new Sony SXRDs, and the upcoming JVCs.
The Samsung 42" DLP does have very bad SSE because it does not use the same ultra-fine screen that the 46" and larger screens have. Also, I don't agree with the sales guy theory that the severity of SSE is inversely proportional to screen size.

Actually, he may not have said that, it was just an impression I got because he
made a point of telling me it was worse on the 42" than any other sets. It really doesn't make sense that the effect would be proportional to size as it appears to
be a fixed property of the screen, not of the optics.

It is definitely something to be aware of though when you are shopping
for a microdisplay.

goldviper

10-08-05, 01:12 AM

For those of you in Phoenix. UE in Scottsdale and the East Valley have the SXRD's in stock.
I was at the UE in Chandler near the 101, they have the 50 and 60 on the floor.
They are feed it 720P on COAX (I know - yuk) but the picture looked great. While their, another guy starts looking at the set and we chat, we both mention AVS at the same time, he is DBWHITE. Very funny, small world.
The picture with this limited feed looked great - WOW. I am ready to pull the trigger in the next week or so.

roller11

10-08-05, 01:24 AM

Well I can only tell you what I see, mostly a silky, some times harsher like crushed ice or at times a shimmer floating at the screen surface above the movie. When it’s there (I am using a HDMI direct from the cable box ) I see it all the time, even in dark areas but in light areas you can’t miss it. But on some channels it nearly disappears ( I am being conservative here). The cable company’s HD demo loop channel for example and HDPBS broad cast I get up here. Are these better channels 1080I and the giant scotch tape looking screen’s pitch of grain is less noticeable by design with a 1080 but a 480p up converted by the cable system to 1080I can accent the flaw? Don’t want to ruffle any feathers here but I just wanted the subject explorded.

One thing about graininess...the darker the scene, the worse it is. In very bright
areas you'd be hard pressed to see it. King of Queens is one of the worst, and yet, they had a prog where Doug and carrie were at a ski resort and in the outdoor
scenes you could barely see graininess at all. Based on your 'light areas'
comment, I don't think you are seeing graininess. One way to tell for sure...
if you can get Still Standing, Yes dear, How I Met Your Mother, or Office and you still see this effect, it isn't graininess. I'm not so familiar with SSE because I don't notice it much (it isn't one tenth as objectionable as graininess) but it doesn't fluctuate with source material. At least I don't think it does, I never watch anything on my HDTV set except hi def (never watch upconverted 480p)
so I can't say from experience about that. Sounds like you may be describing
something that is neither graininess or SSE, but do the above experiment and that
will rule out graininess if you see 'the effect'. If you don't see 'the effect', then the
experiment is inconclusive and we're back to square one.

George Cifranci

10-08-05, 02:10 AM

What type of discount in the way of percentage are people getting on the 60" TV?

Michael

$400 off and free delivery from CC in Columbus, Ohio. That is as low as they would go, but I have 30 days price match if I see a place selling it cheaper.

TV Tyro

10-08-05, 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by goldviper:
While their, another guy starts looking at the set and we chat, we both mention AVS at the same time, he is DBWHITE.

If he were EBWhite or DBCooper, I would have REALLY been impressed.

goldviper

10-08-05, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by goldviper:

If he were EBWhite or DBCooper, I would have REALLY been impressed.

I know :) I even ask him if he was related to DBCOOPER, he said he gets that all the time. :p

Les

PaulyC

10-08-05, 05:29 AM

Checked the Fry's in Woodland Hills, CA and I couldnt find it anywhere. So other than Anaheim does anyone in SoCal know where they are up for display? Maybe one of the Magnolias?

Hmm.. was there yesterday and there was the 60 SXRD living and breathing, i wrote up about it in the owners thread, there were two 50's in boxes right by the cell phones as well.. I went late around 7pm, maybe you were there earlier in the day.

Bytheway I notice a lot of you are commenting about bright white areas and noise, SSE, im sure most of you have calibrated these monitors etc. But like I wrote in the owners thread, the whites were Popping in Vivd mode, and noisy, but in Pro mode it was a whole different story.. Looked fantastic even the bright whites.

chump

10-08-05, 06:46 AM

What type of discount in the way of percentage are people getting on the 60" TV?

I got around 700 off MSRP from best buy because I picked up a stand and the extended warrenty.

ABhatnagar

10-08-05, 07:02 AM

Out of curiosity, what type of receiver do you have?

Sony 7100ES

ABhatnagar

10-08-05, 07:13 AM

photodyer

10-08-05, 08:21 AM

Please forgive me for not reading though to find this, but 170+ pages is a bit much to scan back through and I had no luck with searching . . .

What is the issue of "no 1080p input" that's being referenced??

TIA for clarification here!

JimP

10-08-05, 08:40 AM

Dixie Flatline

10-08-05, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by goldviper:

If he were EBWhite or DBCooper, I would have REALLY been impressed.
Yes, but ... if he were EBWhite he'd probably have bits falling off, and you'd be in a movie called Dead Men Don't Watch HD.

And if he were DBCooper, I imagine he'd just hijack the cargo flight carrying the first shipment of SXRDs. And he'd be demanding an extended warranty that covered bulb and parachute replacement.

rlb

10-08-05, 10:11 AM

EJKrew

10-08-05, 12:08 PM

I got around 700 off MSRP from best buy because I picked up a stand and the extended warrenty.

$840 off MSRP on the 60" SXRD at Ultimate in AZ.
That price was WITHOUT purchasing the 5yr EW and stand (I did purchase BOTH after I was quoted the the price)

nsupuran

10-08-05, 12:36 PM

I just put the 60XBR1 next to LG plasma to see how would I like it. Daytime and straight in with 480i, set to pro mode and adjusted by eye only, the picture has just a bit more noise. But overall the blacks are better than expected and the white is not quite as bright as the plasma. The picture is outstanding for a rear projection LCD. Also using HDMI from a 1080i upconverting DVD (LDA-511) with superbit movie Hollow Man was way better than 720p OTA football game ABC on the plasma. The movie was eye popping and it was played in standard mode on the Sony. So for movies that's a super machine. With live 1080i input OTA in a dark room, the picture looked the same as the 50" plasma so that's still saying a lot for a 60" LCoS. I was not able to input 15 pin D connector (RGB for PC only ???) with 1080i and get a fullscreen. It gave me a 20% picture size in the middle. I need to find out from Sony or somebody what's up with that. I hope to play some more with it soon to see the best picture and input I can use on this 2 million pixel toy. I want my Blu Ray PC drive now. Anybody has one I can test with ?

Later

roller11

10-08-05, 12:48 PM

Ok all...I got my set (60") yesterday...

Been playing around with it and learning A LOT!

I have some general questions for anyone out there.

1. I got my PC hooked up to this thing and wonder what is the best screen resolution and frequency that I should be setting? My hook-up is via DVI-HDMI.

Go into your display properties and set the output to 1920x1080i, 60 HZ. You may
need to enable some advanced features of your card since it won't ordinarily output interlaced video.
Do you have an HDTV tuner/recorder card? If not, get one. They are cheap and turns your PC into a hi def Tivo.

Also, try Connecting your PC via the PC input. We would like PQ comparison of
of PC input vs HDMI.

Comments: This TV looks awesome, will post pictures soon. The HD channels also are awesome! Watched Top Gun last night with the wife and where she would normally fall asleep, she stayed up to see it mezmorized (and immursed) into the flick due to this TV.

My son still this morning just has his jaw open saying kewl! Ok gotta go, he wants to watch cartoons on this thing. Appreciate any feedback.

-Arv

Last night I saw a new CBS prog that just may be the new "King of the Hill"
for PQ, it is "Out of Practice" airs Mondays. Words fail me at trying to describe
the PQ of this prog, I run out of superlatives. There is no trace of graininess,
the colors pop yet are still totally natural and not oversaturated, the sharpness
and detail is second to none, and yet there are no 'halos' that can result when
the high frequency gain is cranked up to high to increase the sharpness (Letterman has this problem to a small extent).
If you want an example of just how good hi def can look, watch this prog.

msleb

10-08-05, 12:49 PM

I have found special tweaks for the Qualia. The input frequency performance of that set is not what most people expect. Read my review for more details.
I have done an advanced search and still could not find that review. Do you, or anyone else, have a link or post number I could refer to?
Thanks

roller11

10-08-05, 12:59 PM

Ok all...I got my set (60") yesterday...

Been playing around with it and learning A LOT!

I have some general questions for anyone out there.

1. I got my PC hooked up to this thing and wonder what is the best screen resolution and frequency that I should be setting? My hook-up is via DVI-HDMI.

Go into your display properties and set the output to 1920x1080i, 60 HZ. You may
need to enable some advanced features of your card since it won't ordinarily output interlaced video.
Do you have an HDTV tuner/recorder card? If not, get one. They are cheap and turns your PC into a hi def Tivo.

Also, try Connecting your PC via the PC input. We would like PQ comparison of
of PC input vs HDMI, both set to 1920x1080.

Comments: This TV looks awesome, will post pictures soon. The HD channels also are awesome! Appreciate any feedback.
-Arv

Last night I saw a new CBS prog that just may be the new "King of the Hill"
for PQ, it is "Out of Practice" airs Mondays. Words fail me at trying to describe
the PQ of this prog, I run out of superlatives. There is no trace of graininess,
the colors pop yet are still totally natural and not oversaturated, the sharpness
and detail is second to none, and yet there are no 'halos' that can result when
the high frequency gain is cranked up to high to increase the sharpness (Letterman has this problem to a small extent).
If you want an example of just how good hi def can look, watch this prog.
Oh yeah, check out "Violent Hawaii" on PBS, airs Sunday Oct. 9 at 6pm mountain time. This is another showcase prog for hi def.

Marco99

10-08-05, 12:59 PM

Has anyone within 200 miles of Boston seen one of these sets in a showroom?

I am really starting to get ticked off! We are within 600 miles of the assembly plant in Pennsylvania and people in Canada and California can go take a look at them!!!

Tweeter claims to have received them in their warehouse yesterday, but GUESS WHAT?!?! It is a three day weekend. And even though it is the three day Columbus Day weekend and early in the NFL season and baseball playoffs are going on right now and EVERYONE IS OUT SHOPPING, Tweeter couldn't be bothered to put one in a store until Tuesday!!!

Man, this is a really CRAPTACULAR state of affairs!!! ARRRGHHHHHHH!!!

reincarnate

10-08-05, 01:09 PM

Last night I saw a new CBS prog that just may be the new "King of the Hill"
for PQ, it is "Out of Practice" airs Mondays. Words fail me at trying to describe
the PQ of this prog, I run out of superlatives. There is no trace of graininess,
the colors pop yet are still totally natural and not oversaturated, the sharpness
and detail is second to none, and yet there are no 'halos' that can result when
the high frequency gain is cranked up to high to increase the sharpness (Letterman has this problem to a small extent).
If you want an example of just how good hi def can look, watch this prog.
Oh yeah, check out "Violent Hawaii" on PBS, airs Sunday Oct. 9 at 6pm mountain time. This is another showcase prog for hi def.
You have just described the difference between DLP and Sony LCOS/SXRD. You won't see this a the stores as the noise and distortion in their signals masks the fantastic beauty of which only Sony technology is capable of achieving today.

From what you describe the rest of your system setup must be pretty good too.
Congratulations, at this is what everyone wants to achieve, even if they don't realize it just yet!