Also, as far as the replacement lamp...it's the 120 watt XL-5100. I did a brief search, but didn't find anything. My guess is that it would be priced fairly close to the Qualia's XL-5000 lamp ($300) though that's just a foolish guess.

Jason

Is that confirmed that the Lamp is a XL-5100?

So is it confirmed that the LG LCoS sets will accept a 1080p signal, or is this just speculation at this point?

Wow, I have never seen such pre-annointed victory as we see for the SXRD's.

Nobody has even seen one turned on, much less off. God, I hope they deliver, as half of the folks on this thread have had premature ejaculations already over these sets.

Sure, its based on the very beautiful Qualia's - but that doesnt guarantee these sets anything.

The Sammys for the most part have been well received, but you get the feeling that no matter what Sony (or JVC, Tosh, Sammmy, LG) deliver in the 1080p, there is no way it will live up to expectations....

Neither Samsung or any other DLP can compete with the SXRD's or the other LCoS 1080P sets on the way this Fall. Their "Fill Ratio" is so much higher than DLP, and it really makes a difference at these large screen sizes. One of the many other factors that favor these sets is that, unlike even the best 1080P DLPs coming this Fall, they all have TRUE, full 1080P chips. They don't have any of the artificiality that is introduced by the "wobulated" DLP chips. Sets made with the HD2+ full DLP chip still seem to produce better PQ than any of the newer, "wobulated" ones although contrast is certainly improved on the 1080P Mitsubishi & Samsung sets.

So is it confirmed that the LG LCoS sets will accept a 1080p signal, or is this just speculation at this point?

Depends what you mean by "confirmed" :)


Everyone i speak to who knows more than i do has told me they will for months now, but i learned a long time ago in this business that "seeing is believing".

I've been in this business too many years and seen too many "confirmed" facts turn out not to be true when a product hits the street. :)

Depends what you mean by "confirmed" :)


Everyone i speak to who knows more than i do has told me they will for months now, but i learned a long time ago in this business that "seeing is believing".

I've been in this business too many years and seen too many "confirmed" facts turn out not to be true when a product hits the street. :)

Agreed.

Will it reconstruct and display a true 1080p24 picture? Or will it have 3:2 pulldown, like is used to go from 480i on DVD to 480p? Perhaps it's neither, and if that's the case, what kind of picture can we expect from an interlaced conversion of a 1080p24 source?


I would expect that film sourced presentations (24fps) that are given to a HDTV as an interlaced 1080i signal, to be reverse interlaced. Described as Re-Interleaving 24fps Film.

There should be no loss of resolution (other than from mpeg or other service provider compression overhead) being displayed as 60 Fields of 3:2 or what I think some people are referring to as 1080p24fps.

The challenge in the above process (if handing the HDTV a Interlaced Signal) is depending on the ability of the HDTV's internal Video Processor to detect the correct cadences for displaying the intended progressive frame(s).

When you use a DVD Player outputting in Progressive (480p) the DVD player is responsible for detecting the correct cadences for progressive output to the display. Some DVD players do a better job than others! 1080 resolution shouldn't make the cadence detection any harder as video processors looks for repeating/duplicate fields and the use MPEG Flags to attempt to display progressively correct.

Newer Video Processors can detect, and display correctly, mixed film and video sourced material at the pixel level. (see Silicon Optix Realta chip information)

To All:

So if we can't soon depend on HD-DVD/BlueRay giving us a correctly Video Processed Progressive output at 1080p, and we can't elect to use an external video processor to up-convert our 1080i sources because our TV's won't take 1080p inputs, then we are left with depending on Sony, JVC, and others deciding what is cost justified video processing for the masses.

And all this for a measly four to five thousand bucks!!! Act now and get free trash and/or 0% interest, or better yet, buy now and have no payments until the better sets are available! :rolleyes:

It's somewhat strange that, with access to all the information these forums provide, that so many people are so willing to gamble on (what might be) such restricted terms.

I'm just as excited as anyone else about buying my HDTV, I've been watching a 24" CRT at about a 9 ft. distance since March! The measuring tape sits on my coffee table to help remind me what a 16:9 60” Diagonal TV will look like, and I to frequently get the urge to state my name and admit to an addiction I haven’t even been able to fully appreciate yet. :o

I've convinced myself at this point though that I won't be taking the plunge until I can see the product(s) in action, I for one don't have $5k to gamble with. I work damn hard for my money and I'm going to let the manufacturers earn my business the old fashion way by offering me something worthy of my money, and if they don’t offer now they will sooner than later I’ll bet.

Besides, I get fantastic inky blacks on my Toshiba 24” CRT and at 9ft I can't see any problems. :eek:

Did anyone else read the review of the qualia 006 on AV Revolution?

http://www.avrev.com/equip/sonyqualia006/

It exposes the one caveat I still have about 3 chip TV's. Convergence. I never liked CRT projection sets because of the convergence eventually always going off. There is nothing more annoying than the red, green or blue drop shadow you get from projections that are out of alignment.

Has anyone had issues with their 3 chip LCD projection televisions? It would seem the precision needed to align these tiny little chips with so much resolution would be exponentially more troublesome than even the old CRT projections...?

Convergence is NOT adjustable on the SXRD or any LCD RPTV. Once the three microdisplays are converged at the factory, that's it. Perfect, imperfect, whatever -- it's done.

So it's not at all like the CRTs of yore.

And for what it's worth, some reports of imperfect convergence in such devices do exist, they are often reports of 1/3 to 1/2 pixel of mis-convergence. And some of those reports are actually people mistaking chromatic aberration for mis-convergence.

Rogo,
If convergence is off can a technician realign, or do they replace the entire light engine?

Thanks JasonColeman

As per the off convergence, can it start after 50 or 100 hours of use??

hello everybody!

my english's really not the best so i hope that you can understand me...

it may be a stupid question but does anyone know if sony might bring these new sxrd-tvs out in europe?

hello everybody!

my english's really not the best so i hope that you can understand me...

it may be a stupid question but does anyone know if sony might bring these new sxrd-tvs out in europe?

Considering the big effort that Sony is making in the SXRD technology, I'd think its pretty certain that its going to be their prime technology worldwide in the future. When it'll appear in Europe, who knows. Maybe someone else can answer that question.

hello everybody!

my english's really not the best so i hope that you can understand me...

it may be a stupid question but does anyone know if sony might bring these new sxrd-tvs out in europe?

You know the hype machine is working when you have Austrians!?! interested in your HDTV -- they don't even HAVE any HDTV programming :D

No, Schwarzenegger, SXRD won't make your analog look any better :)

Is that confirmed that the Lamp is a XL-5100?
Yes, that's the lamp for the 50" & 60" SXRD.

Jason

You know the hype machine is working when you have Austrians!?! interested in your HDTV -- they don't even HAVE any HDTV programming :D

No, Schwarzenegger, SXRD won't make your analog look any better :)

1080i programming is coming to Europe soon if it is not there already. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will be there, too, as will 1080i gaming. Schwarzenegger's question is extremely valid.

Your useless reply, however, is not.

1080i is already broadcasting out of Europe (Brussels) and if I don't remember incorrectly Europeans were able to get the direct feeds from the Olympic Games in HD while we were stuck watching 24-delay and Sony add 50,000 times........ooops


Oh yeah almost forgot the biggest sporting event in the world is coming to Germany next near and more interesting from Germany in HD............

Thanks everyone for your advice in this thread. I continue to learn more. I'm very tempted to try the 60" version in my family room with a viewing distance of 9.5ft. I too have the tape measure sitting on my end table since I am using my second set (21" JVC) ever since my main 32" CRT just went. I'm almost tempted to by a regular 27" trinitron CRT to hold me off until 1080p inputs come out. What did we do a good 10 years ago before the internet was mainstream to research electronics? Speaking for myself I'm probably putting to much emphasis on the specs of these new sets versus letting my eyes decide (which is what I did 10 years ago when I bought a set). The only difference between now and then as I see it is how rapidly technology is changing. 1080p inputs would definitely be nice. I too like a few others on here want my 5K investment to keep me happy going into the next decade. I can't wait for my eyes to see these sets when they make the shelves. I just might wind up making my purchasing decision like I did 10 years ago.

thanks again everyone!

ken

I was wondering if there were any advances in LCOS technology engineering, like in regards to, say; the panels?, that would allow for an UNBELIEVABLE?CRISPER/etc. picture? I guess what I'm trying to get at/ask is like when Sony came out with their Super Fine Piitch Tube [Apperture (sp?) Grill?] for their tube TV's (910 - 30"/34"; 960 -34"). Knowing my "luck" I will buy this year's model/gen, and not be able to buy net year's model/gen, and then the new model will have some Super Fine Pitch TYPE advancement. Thanks techies. :D

I was wondering if there were any advances in LCOS technology engineering, like in regards to, say; the panels?, that would allow for an UNBELIEVABLE?CRISPER/etc. picture?

Have you had a chance to see the Qualia 006 in person? If not, you should try and find one near you!

I had a chance to see it at the Las Vegas Sony store. They were showing Spiderman via Blu-Ray high-definition DVD. I can't imagine a sharper or better picture!! I had a non-techie friend with me who was blown away.

These new SXRD sets should have nearly the same picture..albeit a little smaller. You raise a good question and a very valid concern, though. I bought the Sony 34" XBR...then one year later they came out with the super fine pitch version.

I don't have a link but you can contact JVC - the CR specs on the new 1080p
D-ILA is 2000 to 1. This is the same spec on the new 720p D-ILA which no one
has measured anything close to this. Last year's model D-ILAs speced
1000 to 1 and I believe no one measured anything higher than 700 to 1.

The JVC D-ILA PQ is similiar to the latest LCDs but without the screen door effect
and brighter.

Here's a link to a document that indicates that JVC's 1080p panels will have a CR of 5000:1.

http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/press/2005/d-ila.pdf

You know the hype machine is working when you have Austrians!?! interested in your HDTV -- they don't even HAVE any HDTV programming :D

No, Schwarzenegger, SXRD won't make your analog look any better :)

buddy, you're wrong :D -> we've got some major programms starting to broadcast 1080i in fall and the soccer world cup 2006 will be broadcasted in HD.

hey, we even got electricity over here in the old world!!! :D :rolleyes:

Considering the big effort that Sony is making in the SXRD technology, I'd think its pretty certain that its going to be their prime technology worldwide in the future. When it'll appear in Europe, who knows. Maybe someone else can answer that question.

i also believe that LCOS will be the successor for LCD(-projection) which sony was pushing a lot since they didn't support DLP. they've also released the qualia over here a few month ago. just hope it won't take to long 'til they launch affordable RPTVs based on SXRD because xbox360 is definitly coming in the end of the year to europe and i won't play with it on my old 29 inch 4:3-CRT :rolleyes:

I had to see how big the screen and overall size of the 60" model would look in my home, compared to the 34" Sony I have now. I made the mockup out of cardboard and wood. Check it out.

http://home.earthlink.net/~fancyboybob/images/34-inch.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~fancyboybob/images/60-inch.jpg

I made the mockup out of cardboard and wood.
<br>
What is the width of the wall the 60 will reside on?
thx,
: D.

Hi DJ_V,

Thanks for answering my question. I was lucky enought to see the Qualia at 2 different places. 'Audio & Video Center' (Santa Monica, CA), and their Show Room, 'Just One Touch [--Audio & Video Center]' ("right") across the street. What they had running at/ON their Show Room Qualia (some concert), the PQ was AMAZING! 1080p is AWESOME!. [Later that day I went to Ken Crane's (West LA) to see the 1080p DLP, and I can honestly say that I never seen digital TV's look so clear.] I got to go to the Sony Store (South Coast Plaza Mall, CA) and see their Blu-Ray Demo on their Qualia.

In regards to the mock-up you did, all I can say is WOW! :eek: I heard of somebody doing one w/ paper, but w/ wood and cardboard, you should pat yourself on the back. :D

-- Matthew

I had to see how big the screen and overall size of the 60" model would look in my home, compared to the 34" Sony I have now. I made the mockup out of cardboard and wood. Check it out.


Now that is what I call a hard core home theater enthusiast! :)

Nice job!

Now that is what I call a hard core home theater enthusiast! :)

Nice job!Or you could say hard corrugated home theater enthusiast! ;)

Newbie question:

I have a 50 inch. TV stand from IKEA. Looks great, matches the furniture, blah blah.

I am this closr to pulling the trigger on the 50" SKRD. But, obviously, the wings will hang over the sides.

As dumb as this sounds, will this look stupid? Is it accepted form to have the entire TV fit the stand? I'm not wild about buying a new stand when this one is more than adequate.

Any opinions welcome.

The black level on that mock-up is impressive. However, I think I see some screen smudges on there. You may want to exchange it for another.

Newbie question:

I have a 50 inch. TV stand from IKEA. Looks great, matches the furniture, blah blah.

I am this closr to pulling the trigger on the 50" SKRD. But, obviously, the wings will hang over the sides.

As dumb as this sounds, will this look stupid? Is it accepted form to have the entire TV fit the stand? I'm not wild about buying a new stand when this one is more than adequate.

Any opinions welcome.I think it might look top heavy. It may be very safe and stable, but you may think it looks like it's teetering on the verge of falling over. Like an inverted pyramid. My personnal design preference is to have a base as wide, or wider, than what is above it.

Newbie question:

I have a 50 inch. TV stand from IKEA. Looks great, matches the furniture, blah blah.

I am this closr to pulling the trigger on the 50" SKRD. But, obviously, the wings will hang over the sides.

As dumb as this sounds, will this look stupid? Is it accepted form to have the entire TV fit the stand? I'm not wild about buying a new stand when this one is more than adequate.

Any opinions welcome.

I think it will look fine. The base is for a 50" TV, the 50" SXRD has a width of a 60" TV (more or less).

Do a cardboard mockup!

I had to see how big the screen and overall size of the 60" model would look in my home, compared to the 34" Sony I have now. I made the mockup out of cardboard and wood. Check it out.

It looks like the plant is history.
:D

Speaking of plants, here's an idea. Since almost nobody likes the giant speaker wings, how about planting some ivy beneath and letting the ivy grow up and wrap around the speakers?

[GUFAWS! {sp?} {Chuckles}]

You guys are CRACKING me up!.....

UNINVITED GUEST:

- 'corrugated'


JD MOSER:

- 'plant is history'

EMPIREofONE

- 'smudges'
- 'ivy'

Does anyone know if the SXRD will have the safety belt/buckle (option) for the back of the TV to secure the TV stand? Does the Qualia have it? If not on the SXRD, I think someone "posted" in this thread that it should have an "airbag" like the emergency chutes/slides, they have on airplanes to protect the screen should the TV fall forward. :D

Does anyone know if the SXRD will have the safety belt/buckle (option) for the back of the TV to secure the TV stand? Does the Qualia have it? If not on the SXRD, I think someone "posted" in this thread that it should have an "airbag" like the emergency chutes/slide have on airplanes to protect the screen should the TV fall forward. :DYes the SXRD uses the standard buckle. I'm going to call SonyStyle on monday to see if they sell a strap and buckle for me to secure to my existing stand and snap into the SXRD.

We have 7 & 3 year olds and have all our hutches and tall dressers secured to the wall.

Am I going crazy, or were the Forum's New vertical ads on the left side of the page this morning? :D Thanks.

Am I going crazy, or were the Forum's New vertical ads on the left side of the page this morning? :D Thanks.

1. You're not going crazy. They were. I prefer them on the right.

1. You're not going crazy. They were. I prefer them on the right.

WOJTEK:

Your right WOJTEK. Get it? Your RIGHT. :p NOW I finally lost it (LOL). But seriously, the ads do look better on the right.

EVERYONE:

To the guys that ARE buying this years model, if next years model(s) do(??) have 1080p 60, or whatever fps, over HDMI, how many of you will buy the second generation as well.

WOTJEK:

Your right WOTJEK. Get it? Your RIGHT. :p NOW I finally lost it (LOL). But seriously, the ads do look better on the right.

EVERYONE:

To the guys that ARE buying this years model, if next years model(s) do(??) have 1080p 60, or whatever fps, over HDMI, how many of you will buy the second generation as well.Not me. This is "good enough" for me to wait until 1080p/whatever becomes the mainstream. Maybe when there are 40 HDTV channels all broadcasting in HD 24/7 1080p and my local video store has shelves full of 1080p encoded Blue-Ray discs.

Not me. This is "good enough" for me to wait until 1080p/whatever becomes the mainstream. Maybe when there are 40 HDTV channels all broadcasting in HD 24/7 1080p and my local video store has shelves full of 1080p encoded Blue-Ray discs.

Just ASKING :) UNINVITED GUESS, I'm assuming you don't play video games? Or at least have a PS2?

WO'JT'EK:

Sorry I've been/spelled your User Name incorrectly in previous threads.

I do have a rather obvious question but it's been burning me through the last few pages of this thread:

What is the point of having a 1080p TV if it doesn't accept 1080p signals? Without too much technojargon, what exactly is better about these sets as opposed to 720p ones if it can't even accept the pristine signal?

I do have a rather obvious question but it's been burning me through the last few pages of this thread:

What is the point of having a 1080p TV if it doesn't accept 1080p signals? Without too much technojargon, what exactly is better about these sets as opposed to 720p ones if it can't even accept the pristine signal?

Easy.

No DLP-rainbows (TM), no LCD Screen Door Effect (TM), no or minimal Silk Screen Effect, CR better than LCoS, no plasma burn-in, no LCD poor CR.

That's enough for me.

I do have a rather obvious question but it's been burning me through the last few pages of this thread:

What is the point of having a 1080p TV if it doesn't accept 1080p signals? Without too much technojargon, what exactly is better about these sets as opposed to 720p ones if it can't even accept the pristine signal?

Go to a dealer, look at one of the 1080p tv's next to one that is not. The question will be answered better than words could answer it. Even pho-1080p (wobulated) TV's look better than their nearest 720p/1080i competition.

Just ASKING :) UNINVITED GUESS, I'm assuming you don't play video games? Or at least have a PS3?I have a PS2 but really don't have time to play much any more. My kids aren't old enough to use it. I have a Sony PSP that I play but it's a portable game system. It's easier to pick up a play when you get a 1/2 hour of time to yourself. I think I will buy a PS3 when they come out. 60% for a Blue Ray player 20% for a game system and 20% for a media server. It also depends how the Blue-Ray / HD-DVD format war pans out.

[QUOTE=frokta]Go to a dealer, look at one of the 1080p tv's next to one that is not. QUOTE]

FROKTA is right. Like I mentioned in a earlier post today about seeing the 52" Mits 1080p (fed a DirecTV HD signal), which even happened to be the bottom model (and like I just mentioned it was ONLY the 52"), the picture was NOTHING! :eek: like I ever seen before. And I BELIEVE the set uses a wobulated chip.

WOTJEK:

Your right WOTJEK. Get it? Your RIGHT. :p NOW I finally lost it (LOL). But seriously, the ads do look better on the right.

EVERYONE:

To the guys that ARE buying this years model, if next years model(s) do(??) have 1080p 60, or whatever fps, over HDMI, how many of you will buy the second generation as well.


Wow, what a concept. Well, I need a TV this year, hence I am looking at my options. Right now I am torn between an SXRD, a 50" Plasma, or saving some money and buying a Sammy 61". If I did not need a TV right now, I would most certainly wait at *LEAST* another year. If I could afford to adopt a new set every year, I'd certainly just buy a qualia front projector instead of wasting space on these little RPTV's.

I think I will buy a PS3 when they come out. 60% for a Blue Ray player 20% for a game system and 20% for a media server. It also depends how the Blue-Ray / HD-DVD format war pans out.

UNIINVITED GUEST:

"media server," I forgot how powerful the PS3 is going to be. The one game I'm waiting for is, I believe it's called 'Motor Storm' (Evolution Studios) (rally game). How about you?

UNIINVITED GUEST:

"media server," I forgot how powerful the PS3 is going to be. The one game I'm waiting for is, I believe it's called 'Motor Storm' (Evolution Studios) (rally game). How about you?
Fight Night looks cool. I attached a pic from the game. A nice NASCAR sim would be great. A high speed driving game too. I'm not much into the "shoot everything" games.

Fight Night looks cool. I attached a pic from the game. A nice NASCAR sim would be great. A high speed driving game too. I'm not much into the "shoot everything" games.

Uhhhhh.....Fight Night. The "demo" footage of the game is AMAZING! I like racing games too.

So we don't get hounded for going off-topic :D, I wonder how light gun games will work w/ RPTV. ESPECIALLY in regrads to SXRD (/Qualia). I honestly meant to ask this question before. I believe there's light guns now on the market now that are made especially for RPTV.

DJ_V -- your equipment rack looks pretty nice. I'm looking for something similar. What brand is that, or did you make it yourself?

DJ_V -- your equipment rack looks pretty nice. I'm looking for something similar. What brand is that, or did you make it yourself?

He told me it was made out of cardboard. :) No, in all seriousness, that's a NICE stand.

site shows expected availability date of 9/19 for the 50" model

What is the width of the wall the 60 will reside on?
The width of that wall is just over 10 feet. Whether or not an SXRD will reside there remains to be seen. ;)

DJ_V -- your equipment rack looks pretty nice. I'm looking for something similar. What brand is that, or did you make it yourself?
Thanks! Both the TV stand and the equipment rack are the Archetype line from Salamander (http://www.salamanderdesigns.com/archetype/index.htm). I really like them both. Well made and very adjustable. I got the equipment rack from Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=SALA5B/X) when they had a sale on it, and the TV stand I had to special order through a local hi-fi store.

The only negative I have with the Archetype line is that they're open on the back, but I was able to make a backing for the TV stand out of black mat board.

[QUOTE=DJ_V]I had to see how big the screen and overall size of the 60" model would look in my home, compared to the 34" Sony I have now. I made the mockup out of cardboard and wood. Check it out.

Did a a virtual mock up , you'll definatley need to loose the plant.

Did a a virtual mock up , you'll definatley need to loose the plant.
Cool, thanks! i was thinking about making a virutal mockup but now I don't have to!

Yeah, see ya plant. My wife put it there...I don't like it that much but it fills up the space created by the speaker placement.

Thanks everyone for your advice in this thread. I continue to learn more. I'm very tempted to try the 60" version in my family room with a viewing distance of 9.5ft. I can't wait for my eyes to see these sets when they make the shelves.
thanks again everyone!

ken

I feel the same way. After reading so much on this forum, and this thread in particular, i am pretty certain that this set is what i am going to wind up with, the 60" version, and my eyes will be approx 8-1/2' from the set.

Cant wait to see one in person, you guys got me losing all my patience!!

Having been worried about burn-in, sde, rainbows, boy, this looks like the answer for sure, and with it being a Sony and the latest in technology, I expect it to be damn good when i finally see it. (and i DO like the wing speakers! LOL).

[QUOTE=DJ_V]I had to see how big the screen and overall size of the 60" model would look in my home, compared to the 34" Sony I have now. I made the mockup out of cardboard and wood. Check it out.

Did a a virtual mock up , you'll definatley need to loose the plant.

XRbeaner,

That's too funny! You guys are so talented [Photo Shop?].

-- Matthew

Are Plants virtual or real--I'm going insane!

I'm guessing #1, #4 or #27

I'm guessing #1, #4 or #27

There is no #27

Personally I liked "Fartwood the Ass Rash" :D

[QUOTE=1080p4me So if we can't soon depend on HD-DVD/BlueRay giving us a correctly Video Processed Progressive output at 1080p, and we can't elect to use an external video processor to up-convert our 1080i sources because our TV's won't take 1080p inputs, then we are left with depending on Sony, JVC, and others deciding what is cost justified video processing for the masses.[/QUOTE]

Since there is no 1080p HDTV -- and hell will freeze over before there is -- the only thing that could be 1080p on BR is FILM which will, of course, be progressive at 24fps -- not 60p.

Unless I'm wrong -- 24p can be passed without degredation via a 1080i60 connection. That means the connection isn't a limit for moving FILM frames. Thus, it's up to the HDTV to do the right thing with FILM. The best would be 1080p72. If not, it can be presented at either 30Hz or 60Hz.

So exactly what is it you expect on a BR -- or that you want to scale-up? Your old VHS tapes? DVDs?

As far as I can tell, the nothing on a BR that COULD be 1080p60. And, the only thing that could supply a 1080p60 signal is a game box or PC output.

When it doesn't add any cost to add a 1080p60 connection -- likely next year when the PS3 ships -- then you'll get your 1080p60 connection. Right now, I'm happy to get 60-inch HQ HDTV. Especially since FireWire for HDV camcorders is now included.

It seems if games are SO important to someone -- they should simply wait rather then bitch about HDTVs that likely will present HDTV and FILMs with great quality at a reasonable price. :)

I say # 4 is enough.

Those of you with the Qualias, how is SD quality compared to 720p LCDs? Is it better, worse, or about equal?

Those of you with the Qualias, how is SD quality compared to 720p LCDs? Is it better, worse, or about equal?

Read some reviews man...

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/directviewandptvtelevisions/705sony/
http://www.avrev.com/equip/sonyqualia006/

Sounds like any other good HDTV. Only HD and DVD looks impressive. Everything else falls a bit short.

Those of you with the Qualias, how is SD quality compared to 720p LCDs? Is it better, worse, or about equal?

Problem is that the only Qualia is a 70" and the only 70" LCD that I've seen was a Hitachi LCD that really looked pretty bad on standard definition. Even comparing the Qualia to a 720p 60", the size difference favored the smaller set. You can't just keep blowing up SD without expecting it to at some point look pretty bad.

Since you're asking about standard definition, I would like to also point out that standard def can look pretty bad to actually very good on my Sony LCD rear projection tv. My local cable provider Brighthouse, recently changed out some equipment and I have to say that the standard def, analog signal looks very good. Not high def, but certainly very watchable on a 60" Sony GWIII. I use to have the Voom satellite system and Stargate SG-1 on the Scifi network with them looked pretty bad. What I'm trying to say is that depending on your signal, standard def is going to vary quite a bit.

You also have to keep in mind the obvious, or sometimes not so obvious, that there are two flavors of SD, analog and digital. Analog looks like crap usually no matter how you slice it but, as Jim alluded to, some networks seem to provide a better analog signal than others.

I've found SD digital to look very good, even at 70"

I don't know if this is just stupid on sonys part, especially since it will be there xbr line, it should accept 1080p, and 1920x1080 for the pc input.

Now I know that the new Flat panel xbr Lcds accept 1360x768, why would they not let these machines accept its native resolution.

Right now no one knows for sure, and till I see the specs, I will know for sure.

There are a couple of things that I find to be strange. First, Crutchfield seems to be getting the first shipment of SXRD's well before anyone else (months maybe), when SONY hasn't even announced these models yet. Secondly, if SONY's announcement regarding the PS3 was accurate, and that it will support 1080p, it seems like they would make every attempt to get the technology into a display ASAP. Is it possible that 1080p input was an oversight by the displays group? And is it also possible that that group is now in sync with the PS3 group. But as a consequence, a certain quantity of SXRD's were completed (or at least partitally) without 1080p input support? And maybe it is these models that are being offered to Crutchfield so much earlier than previously thought? Wouldn't you be PISSED to pay $5000 for one in mid-Sept and then find out that the "real" model will be shipping in November for the exact same price!! NOTE: I have no "inside knowledge" at all, this is JUST a theory. Maybe I'm just one of those geeks that isn't ready to give up on 1080p input on this year's model.

Or someone trying to torpedo Crutchfield for some reason...man, talk about conspiracy theorist...

There are a couple of things that I find to be strange. First, Crutchfield seems to be getting the first shipment of SXRD's well before anyone else (months maybe), when SONY hasn't even announced these models yet. Secondly, if SONY's announcement regarding the PS3 was accurate, and that it will support 1080p, it seems like they would make every attempt to get the technology into a display ASAP. Is it possible that 1080p input was an oversight by the displays group? And is it also possible that that group is now in sync with the PS3 group. But as a consequence, a certain quantity of SXRD's were completed (or at least partitally) without 1080p input support? And maybe it is these models that are being offered to Crutchfield so much earlier than previously thought? Wouldn't you be PISSED to pay $5000 for one in mid-Sept and then find out that the "real" model will be shipping in November for the exact same price!! NOTE: I have no "inside knowledge" at all, this is JUST a theory. Maybe I'm just one of those geeks that isn't ready to give up on 1080p input on this year's model.

I love a good conspiracy theory. :D

Or they figured that they could sell you one in September and a second one in November. Why sell one if you can sell two? :rolleyes:

Frankly, everybody seems to want to think that 1080p is God's gift to the videophile. Whose to say that the 1080p output of the PS3 is going to be well executed and any more effective than the deinterlacer in the TV. Unless the content is 1080p, you're still manipulating it.

There are a couple of things that I find to be strange. First, Crutchfield seems to be getting the first shipment of SXRD's well before anyone else (months maybe), when SONY hasn't even announced these models yet. Secondly, if SONY's announcement regarding the PS3 was accurate, and that it will support 1080p, it seems like they would make every attempt to get the technology into a display ASAP. Is it possible that 1080p input was an oversight by the displays group? And is it also possible that that group is now in sync with the PS3 group. But as a consequence, a certain quantity of SXRD's were completed (or at least partitally) without 1080p input support? And maybe it is these models that are being offered to Crutchfield so much earlier than previously thought? Wouldn't you be PISSED to pay $5000 for one in mid-Sept and then find out that the "real" model will be shipping in November for the exact same price!! NOTE: I have no "inside knowledge" at all, this is JUST a theory. Maybe I'm just one of those geeks that isn't ready to give up on 1080p input on this year's model.

I think this may fall into the cateogory of wishful thinking... There is no way that Crutchfield will be getting a different type of SXRD than everyone else. Sony may rationalize not using 1080p inputs on this years sets since there is nothing out there right now that outputs 1080p 60. The PS3 probably won't shup until next Fall at the earliest in the US. By that time the next SXRD sets will be out.

Or someone trying to torpedo Crutchfield for some reason...man, talk about conspiracy theorist...


Nahhhhh....not trying to torpedo Crutchfield. Actually grateful that they are telling us SOMETHING about this model when SONY seems to have no interest in that. And if SONY was using Crutchfield to unload these "theoretically crippled" RPTVs, I wasn't suggesting that Crutchfield would have any knowledge of it. But again....this is all JUST a theory. If I'm right, which I doubt, I'll be able to come back with a big "I TOLD YOU SO" in a few months!!! LOL

I think Sony really worked hard under extremely tight deadlines to get these SXRDs out. They had terrible earnings, new CEO - you get the picture. SXRD to the rescue!

Hence - using Dumbo ears (no need to develop a new cabinet), no 1080p support (cheaper, no market right now).

All in all, I am impressed how quickly they came out with 0.61" SXRD-based RPTVs. Whether I will buy one or wait for the Pioneer 61" 1080p plasma in 2006 is another question...

I think this may fall into the cateogory of wishful thinking... There is no way that Crutchfield will be getting a different type of SXRD than everyone else. Sony may rationalize not using 1080p inputs on this years sets since there is nothing out there right now that outputs 1080p 60. The PS3 probably won't shup until next Fall at the earliest in the US. By that time the next SXRD sets will be out.

Last I heard, they were saying Spring 2006 for the PS3. Has this changed? If so, I guess that would decrease the odds of this years SXRD's having 1080p input.

Hey, here's another conspiracy theory.

Maybe SONY is trying to drive down expectations. And maybe at the last possible second they'll give us our SXRD without the goofy speakers, but with 1080p input. And maybe they'll even have the PS3 ready by Christmas this year!!! And maybe if you buy the SXRD, they'll throw the PS3 in for free!!! Nahhhhhh!!!! I think I'm starting to sound like Theodoric of York - Medieval Barber (Steve Martin on SNL - late 70's)

More likely they will release the SXRD with 1080p inputs when they release the PS3 since it will be one of the few mediums to output a 1080p signal.

Why release anything now that you won't be able to use until 7 months from now? Someone else mentioned they'll release this one now and another when PS3 comes out heralding the tight integration between the two. Right on, I say because many folks will just have to sell their current SXRD to get the new one. Buyers remorse is a tough itch to scratch.

XBox 360 won't be able to do 1080p (largest I've seen is 1080i) and the HD DVD/Blu-Ray debate still hasn't died.

My guess (and only a very uneducated guess) is that you won't see true 1080p inputs in the SXRD until the 1st/2nd quarter 06.

Ski

Sony PS3 has been moved back to 2007, this was an announcement from Gamespot. Because of this knowledge, I doubt Crutchfields SXRD's are going to be any different than the ones you'll see in October and Novemeber.

Sony seems to have spread itself out to thin, and will be giving M$ a whole year to take from the PlayStation. The benefits to the consumer is that Sony is hungry to get its television market back, this may be why we're seeing the SXRD's sooner than expected.

-Dave

Sony seems to have spread itself out to thin, and will be giving M$ a whole year to take from the PlayStation. The benefits to the consumer is that Sony is hungry to get its television market back, this may be why we're seeing the SXRD's sooner than expected.

-Dave

I agree completely -- Sony is hungry for money, and that is why they bumped up the release date. Not only that, but with other manufacturers having 1080p sets out....

Sony PS3 has been moved back to 2007, this was an announcement from Gamespot. Because of this knowledge, I doubt Crutchfields SXRD's are going to be any different than the ones you'll see in October and Novemeber.

Sony seems to have spread itself out to thin, and will be giving M$ a whole year to take from the PlayStation. The benefits to the consumer is that Sony is hungry to get its television market back, this may be why we're seeing the SXRD's sooner than expected.

-Dave
Oy gevalt -- when did this rumor acquire such legs? :rolleyes: The link is here (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/08/02/news_6129862.html?tag=lastword_ps3_headline), so people can read it for themselves. It's one third-party securities analyst suggesting a possible, but far-fetched, scenario where Sony decides to drop the PS2 to $99 in hopes of stealing sales from the XBox 360 :confused: and then they wait until after Xmas 2006 to release the PS3. It's imaginable, I suppose, but seems extremely unlikely, and I wouldn't put too much credence in it.

Unless I'm wrong -- 24p can be passed without degradation via a 1080i60 connection.

MPEG Video currently codes video in interlaced format (60 Fields). If the Interlaced Video happens to have been sourced from 24fps Film, then it will be up to a video processor in either a disk player (If outputting progressively), or the HDTV (If outputting interlaced), to:

#1) detect that the original content was progressive (via Duplicate interlaced Fields and/or MPEG Flags)
#2) the process of Re-Interleaving 24fps Film from the Interlaced coded MPEG.

The actual 24fps progressive film does not exist progressively in the MPEG data. A video processor is responsible for creating the progressive picture, whether the processor is in a Disk Player, external, or in the HDTV.

Not having 1080p input connections on your HDTV would limit you to the use of the Video Processor on your HDTV performing the steps above #1) & #2) for ALL source device(s) that were giving you ANY interlaced signal. The point of my original post was to point out: Sets which are not capable of accepting their native display resolution as inputs, will be controlling (limiting) the level at which you can view ALL interlaced sources progressively whether they happen to be film sourced or not. Which is how these SXRD and D-ILA Fixed resolution sets display, progressive only.

So exactly what is it you expect on a BR -- or that you want to scale-up? Your old VHS tapes? DVDs?

As far as I can tell, the only thing on a BR that COULD be 1080p60 would be game content. And, the only thing that could supply a 1080p60 signal is a game box or PC output.


Your understanding of my concern seems misplaced.

When it doesn't add any cost to add a 1080p60 connection -- likely next year when the PS3 ships -- then you'll get your 1080p60 connection….It seems if games are SO important to someone -- they should simply wait rather then bitch about HDTVs that likely will present HDTV and FILMs with great quality at a reasonable price.

Right now, I'm happy to get 60-inch HQ HDTV. Especially since FireWire for HDV camcorders is now included.


I support, and 100% agree, with your using the word “likely” it’s just that I’m not willing to gamble $5000 on the assumption before I can see it. Even though I won’t be using my HDTV for games, I should think that the importance of 1080p inputs for those that will, be as important to them as the FireWire feature was to you.

In all actuality we are still not sure about the SXRD and D-ILA 1080p sets not being able to handle a 1080p input over HDMI. Although both manufacturers insinuate to it’s exclusion, neither have published the resolutions supported by their HDMI ports.

I lean towards believing they will include it and that this blackout of explicit HDMI information is for as yet to be known reason(s).

Anyone care to speculate?

Marketing?

First ones won’t have it but will be released before the competition's (especially if theirs will include it)? .... Get those pre-oders now, give them stands, give them no intrest, give them no payments.

Sony will but doesn’t want JVC to know? Vice Versa?

First, Crutchfield seems to be getting the first shipment of SXRD's well before anyone else (months maybe), when SONY hasn't even announced these models yet.I ordered my KDS-R60XBR1 from Showcase Electronics, a division of Tweeter. He told me it's in thier system as a SKU, so anyone should be able to order if they know to ask for it. It's designated to ship to thier Chicago warehouse for distribution.

I agree that it's strange for the info to go public quietly through Crutchfield. I'm sure Sony has embargo dates which retailers and reviewers must wait until before publicly speaking of new models. There were several PR announcements from for the A10 & A20 series before there was even a picture available on the web. But I think they were announced at CES.

I'm guessing Sony is planning the big media rollout for CEDIA. Cruchfield and other sales channels can place orders now to get the ball rolling. It works like a new retailer having a soft opening before the grand opening I guess.

I agree that it's strange for the info to go public quietly through Crutchfield. I'm sure Sony has embargo dates which retailers and reviewers must wait until before publicly speaking of new models. There were several PR announcements from for the A10 & A20 series before there was even a picture available on the web. But I think they were announced at CES.

It is very interesting -- we haven't even seen a press release from Sony on these sets, except for the PR on the manufacturing facility? :confused:

All the marketing arguments aside, if I'm going to use the TV to watch my DTV (non-HD at this time), DVD's and OTA HD, do I or should I care that said TV won't accept a 1080p input via HDMI (not even considering purchasing a PS3)?

I was all ready to buy the 50" A10 RPLCD, but after reading this thread I figured what the heck, for $1500 more I can have a much better TV viewing wise. But after reading all this talk about the 1080p I'm a bit confused but I don't really think it matters in my case re: the potential lack of 1080p support in these new units available next month.

it's in the computer at the Fresno goodguys store also

All the marketing arguments aside, if I'm going to use the TV to watch my DTV (non-HD at this time), DVD's and OTA HD, do I or should I care that said TV won't accept a 1080p input via HDMI (not even considering purchasing a PS3)?

I was all ready to buy the 50" A10 RPLCD, but after reading this thread I figured what the heck, for $1500 more I can have a much better TV viewing wise. But after reading all this talk about the 1080p I'm a bit confused but I don't really think it matters in my case re: the potential lack of 1080p support in these new units available next month.

The only people who should care about a 1080p input at this point is
future SonyPlaystation3 owners. HD-DVD will be 1080i and even if
Blu-Ray DVD is stored at 1080p24fps it will certainly output 1080i which
the Sony SXRD will de-interlace and recover the 1080p artififact free.

It is very interesting -- we haven't even seen a press release from Sony on these sets, except for the PR on the manufacturing facility? :confused:

Funny also that the only way I can get to the info for the sets on Crutchfield is to do a search for the model number. If I follow the tv listings, only the avail models (like a10, a20) show up.

I've emailed Abt to see if they are in their order system yet (not on their web site).

The only people who should care about a 1080p input at this point is
future SonyPlaystation3 owners. HD-DVD will be 1080i and even if
Blu-Ray DVD is stored at 1080p24fps it will certainly output 1080i which
the Sony SXRD will de-interlace and recover the 1080p artififact free.

Thank you. I've no interest in the PS3, so I think I'll wait and see if these new units arrive next month.

Does anyone know if their is 1080p24sf support, which is much more important for judder free film sourced materials. Bothe the Sony HS51 and Qualia 04 FPs support 1080p24sf.

Can anyone elaborate on why the bulb for this unit has a life expectancy of 2000 hours at a $300 price point when others are 5000 - 6000 hours at a price point of $200. This seems to be an extreme difference. Is this a trend with the 1080P versus the 720P?

If you go to the Crutchfield site... go to HDTV... then click on 'New', then you will see KDSR60XBR1 and KDSR50XBR1...

they are listed on the site. :)

-Dave

Can anyone elaborate on why the bulb for this unit has a life expectancy of 2000 hours at a $300 price point when others are 5000 - 6000 hours at a price point of $200. This seems to be an extreme difference. Is this a trend with the 1080P versus the 720P?


Very good question.

Would definately affect my buying decision. :eek:

With these new sets having upconversion, what DVD player should I upgrade to?? I have a Pioneer DV-563A.

It seems redundant buying a upconverting player...

Just curious to hear another opinion... (< $500.00)

-Dave

P.S. sorry to be a bit off topic

With these new sets having upconversion, what DVD player should I upgrade to?? I have a Pioneer DV-563A.

It seems redundant buying a upconverting player...

Just curious to hear another opinion... (< $500.00)

-Dave

P.S. sorry to be a bit off topicI was wondering the same thing. Since the TV has a built-in scaler converting everything to 1080p, would I be best off just sending a raw, unprocessed 480i signal from the DVD player. I'm guessing a HDMI connection would be the only feature to look for in a newer player.

Am I wrong?

Can anyone elaborate on why the bulb for this unit has a life expectancy of 2000 hours at a $300 price point when others are 5000 - 6000 hours at a price point of $200.

Could you reference me as to where you're getting this info on the bulb's life expectancy for this new set?

Notice how all the Industry Plants get lost whenever the bulb racket comes up!

I was wondering the same thing. Since the TV has a built-in scaler converting everything to 1080p, would I be best off just sending a raw, unprocessed 480i signal from the DVD player. I'm guessing a HDMI connection would be the only feature to look for in a newer player.

Am I wrong?

Depends on the DVD player. Some may be better some may be worse.

Also very few DVD players output 480i over HDMI...

I was wondering the same thing. Since the TV has a built-in scaler converting everything to 1080p, would I be best off just sending a raw, unprocessed 480i signal from the DVD player. I'm guessing a HDMI connection would be the only feature to look for in a newer player.

Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. ;)

You also need to look for a player that will actually send a 480i signal over HDMI, as there are only a few players that will actually do this. The Pioneer Elite 59avi is one of them, and I think there is a Sony player that does so as well.

Notice how all the Industry Plants get lost whenever the bulb racket comes up!

Who are these industry plants you constantly are referring to, please enlighten us all...

Could you reference me as to where you're getting this info on the bulb's life expectancy for this new set?

I believe this is per the Q006 thread -- a few folks have mentioned 2000 hour bulb life. However, the new 50" and 60" sets have a different model # for the bulb -- let's hope that the longevity is improved! (It's going to get fairly expensive if not)

Chris

Well. I just got back from Magnolia and Audio Video center on Wilshire in Santa Monica CA. Both places have the 70" Qualia 006. Magnolia even has the Qualia right next to the Samsung 56" 1080p RPT.

I can honestly say that with a regular satelite 1080i signal. Neither tv stands out significantly better than the other. I was shocked. They both show a great picture. Obviously, if you see rainbows on DLP's, then the two can't be compared. But if you are simply looking for sharpness and over all PQ from DVD and broadcast/cable HD signals... SXRD is not deserving of all the hype.

Now, I saw this set at Siggraph with a blu-ray player showing Spider Man and it looked like nothing else I have ever seen. I did *NOT*have that kind of reaction again when I saw it at AV center or Magnolia. And I was downright shocked at how well the Sammy DLP stands up against the Qualia over at Magnolia.

Both of these sets do an attrocious job at handeling SD and standard analog broadcasts. And I mean HORRIBLE! Dear god!

Also, both sets exhibit their own flavors of edge noise. I am guessing that since neither was calibrated at either dealer, a lot of what I was seeing was due to poor out of the box settings.

That said, I am waiting on buying a 1080p set and going with a 50" plasma. :eek: I felt they were exhibiting a slightly more stable 1080i image and when it came to SD and analog, they stood apart even more. I like the versatility and color saturation better, even though it is at the expense of sharpness and screen real estate.

Also, AV Center has the new 1920x1080p LCD set from LG. Wow, not bad! I think it looks better than the Aquos. But it is still crunching the color in some interesting ways. It's not a bad set though at under $4k.

Anyhow, I am leaving the SXRD thread now as I have concluded that I am now a Plasma customer :) One last word on the matter. Magnolia says they expect their 50/60" sxrd's in on time in September.

2000 hours doesn't seem right I mean at an average of 5 hours viewing per day, that means you have to change the bulb every year.

I believe this is per the Q006 thread -- a few folks have mentioned 2000 hour bulb life. However, the new 50" and 60" sets have a different model # for the bulb -- let's hope that the longevity is improved! (It's going to get fairly expensive if not)

Chris

Maybe a little OT. Sorry.

When a bulb goes in one of these units, is it all or none? Does it gradually lose brightness or does it simply die?

It appears the 2000 hour life was for the Qualia 004 front projector, which uses a Xenon bulb instead of the conventional bulbs. So hopefully bulb life is a lot longer than 2000 hours.

There were just some Q owners who replaced their bulbs around ~1800 hours. Let's hope they were just being picky :D

Maybe a little OT. Sorry.

When a bulb goes in one of these units, is it all or none? Does it gradually lose brightness or does it simply die?

It could be both, typically it will dim and then, at some point, die. If you have a lot of power failures and don't let the bulb cool down on these sets (fan runs for a few minutes after you turn off the TV) then you will have premature bulb failure, which is why people are hooking up UPS's to protect their expensive bulb. Sounds like a darn good idea to me.

I'm probably the one to blame about the 2,000 hours estimated bulb life on the Qualia. I was trying to recall what the number was and have been asking other members what they remembered. So far, I've not found anything conclusive about bulb life on a SXRD set.

I'm probably the one to blame about the 2,000 hours estimated bulb life on the Qualia. I was trying to recall what the number was and have been asking other members what they remembered. So far, I've not found anything conclusive about bulb life on a SXRD set.

The Qualia uses a 200 watt bulb.

Most RPs that use smaller wattage bulbs like 120 watt or 150 watt typically have a 5000 or 6000 hour life span. Which at 4 hours a day is over 4 years :-)

Yes, you are wrong. ;)
Gee Honey... oops, sorry you sounded like my wife there for a second :D

[QUOTE=frokta]Both of these sets do an attrocious job at handeling SD and standard analog broadcasts. And I mean HORRIBLE! Dear god![QUOTE]

frokta, you said horrible. I got the point. But I want something constructive.

What HDTV does a good job at handling SD? I know "garbage in - garbage out", but more than half my time is spent watching SD.

I will be sitting further back from the TV probably than most - 9 to 10 feet. I am debating on a 50" or 56" HDTV. I figure if I sit back a little, SD should look better. I can always scoot up for DVD and HD. ;)

Anyone else - please chime in. I am always trying to learn. I appreciate your opinions.

I wish I knew how to do the quotes correctly. :o

I wish I knew how to do the quotes correctly. :o

You are close, but you forgot a "/" at the end of your last post where "QUOTE" is.

Back to the topic, you could use an external scaler to try and get SD in better form. I believe a product called the "Mosquito" does a pretty darn good job of cleaning up SD....the bad news is that it is $2000. :(

[QUOTE=frokta]Both of these sets do an attrocious job at handeling SD and standard analog broadcasts. And I mean HORRIBLE! Dear god![QUOTE]

frokta, you said horrible. I got the point. But I want something constructive.

What HDTV does a good job at handling SD? I know "garbage in - garbage out", but more than half my time is spent watching SD.

I will be sitting further back from the TV probably than most - 9 to 10 feet. I am debating on a 50" or 56" HDTV. I figure if I sit back a little, SD should look better. I can always scoot up for DVD and HD. ;)

Anyone else - please chime in. I am always trying to learn. I appreciate your opinions.

I wish I knew how to do the quotes correctly. :o


Sorry about that. But I am not over blowing things when I say it was a shockingly bad image. I am used to a trinitron tube so to see a standard definition signal look virtually unwatchable on such a beautiful TV was disturbing. And I really do mean unwatchable. If you spend more than 50% of your time watching standard definition I'd say don't waste your money. Get a CRT projection, a tube, or a plasma. (plasma is still only an improvment over a non-CRT RPT though) HD and DVD's look awesome though. And Standard digital looks... watchable. If I was to grade the image quality of my (LIMITED) viewing experience on these sets, it would be as follows.

Yeah, if you sit back, the SD might be reasonable. But the analog is just not going to get better unless you buy an external scaler.

SXRD
1080i hd signal from satelite: 9/10
DVD: 8/10
SD from satelite: 5/10
Standard Analog: 0.5/10

Samsung 56" 1080p
1080i hd signal from satelite: 9/10
DVD: 7.5/10 (looked a bit more crunched)
SD from satelite: 5/10
Standard Analog: 0.5/10


Both sets ( and pretty much all of the other RPT's set next to these two) displayed analog television blurry, washed out, and very very noisey. I really mean it was unwatchable. Sorry if this is upsetting to anyone. I know it is not easy to hear someone have a very bad reaction.

You are close, but you forgot a "/" at the end of your last post where "QUOTE" is.

Back to the topic, you could use an external scaler to try and get SD in better form. I believe a product called the "Mosquito" does a pretty darn good job of cleaning up SD....the bad news is that it is $2000. :(

Thanks for the quote tip. I am quick learner. :rolleyes:

I will start looking at the "external scalers" threads. This HD hobby is getting expensive. :eek:

I'm sure SD quality would be much better in your home since the stores tend to split the signal to death and distrubute it to all the TVs.

I'm sure SD quality would be much better in your home since the stores tend to split the signal to death and distrubute it to all the TVs.

Quite possible. The sales man made sure I was aware of that too when he saw my reaction. My wife and I both made some exclamations when he flipped from HD discovery to some PGA in SD. I was able to compare these sets with the same source material, including "House of flying daggers" on dvd. Magnolia is a great place to examine AV equipment. I **highly** recommend people check this stuff out for them selves.

[QUOTE=prestl][QUOTE=frokta]Both of these sets do an attrocious job at handeling SD and standard analog broadcasts. And I mean HORRIBLE! Dear god!


Sorry about that. But I am not over blowing things when I say it was a shockingly bad image. I am used to a trinitron tube so to see a standard definition signal look virtually unwatchable on such a beautiful TV was disturbing. And I really do mean unwatchable. If you spend more than 50% of your time watching standard definition I'd say don't waste your money. Get a CRT projection, a tube, or a plasma. (plasma is still only an improvment over a non-CRT RPT though) HD and DVD's look awesome though. And Standard digital looks... watchable. If I was to grade the image quality of my (LIMITED) viewing experience on these sets, it would be as follows.

Yeah, if you sit back, the SD might be reasonable. But the analog is just not going to get better unless you buy an external scaler.

SXRD
1080i hd signal from satelite: 9/10
DVD: 8/10
SD from satelite: 5/10
Standard Analog: 0.5/10

Samsung 56" 1080p
1080i hd signal from satelite: 9/10
DVD: 7.5/10 (looked a bit more crunched)
SD from satelite: 5/10
Standard Analog: 0.5/10


Both sets ( and pretty much all of the other RPT's set next to these two) displayed analog television blurry, washed out, and very very noisey. I really mean it was unwatchable. Sorry if this is upsetting to anyone. I know it is not easy to hear someone have a very bad reaction.

Thanks for the comparison. What DVD player did you use?

I'm sure SD quality would be much better in your home since the stores tend to split the signal to death and distrubute it to all the TVs.

I probably should have qualified my statement by saying that I currently watch Directv on a 10 year old 32" Sony CRT. I am assuming that Directv is digital SD and not analogue SD. So - does Directv SD look better than analogue from cable?

[QUOTE=frokta][QUOTE=prestl]

Thanks for the comparison. What DVD player did you use?

The sales guy was great, he went and grabbed a new Samsung 1080i hdmi capable player and plugged it in to both TV's one at a time for us.

[QUOTE=tonydeluce][QUOTE=frokta]

The sales guy was great, he went and grabbed a new Samsung 1080i hdmi capable players and plugged it in to both TV's one at a time for us.

Thanks. None of the Samsung upconverting DVD players are the best but
the fact that you used the same DVD player is a good data point for
the comparison. I was just courious to see what caused relative ranking
of 7.5 and 8.0 to the HD at 9.0

Thanks again.

[QUOTE=frokta][QUOTE=tonydeluce]

Thanks. None of the Samsung upconverting DVD players are the best but
the fact that you used the same DVD player is a good data point for
the comparison. I was just courious to see what caused relative ranking
of 7.5 and 8.0 to the HD at 9.0

Thanks again.

I think my rating on DVD viewing is skewed by the quality of the image on the plasmas. The DVD playback did not really seem to benefit at all from the 1080p upconversion. And the plasmas seemed to display DVD imagery with more stability.

Gee Honey... oops, sorry you sounded like my wife there for a second :D
lol

Funny also that the only way I can get to the info for the sets on Crutchfield is to do a search for the model number. If I follow the tv listings, only the avail models (like a10, a20) show up.

I've emailed Abt to see if they are in their order system yet (not on their web site).

I was PM'ed that the SXRD sets do show up on Crutchfield's site if you go Televisions->Big Screen -> page 2. And they do. I was further filtering on Sony after Big Screen, and they do not show up then. Also if you filter on the screen size. Not sure if they don't show up after this level of filtering because they are out of stock or something like that...

Not sure if they don't show up after this level of filtering because they are out of stock or something like that...I would say it's a website database error. They need to update the keyword database they are using to perform the filtering to incude the new models.

If you use a DVD player that can stream 480i over HDMI directly to the SXRD like the Sony 975 player, you should have better results. I'm just hoping that these SXRD sets can at least display SD as good as the XBR950 LCD sets. I saw the 70" XBR a while back at Fry's in City of Industry showing a non-HD feed of a Dodgers game and it looked pretty good from normal viewing distance. I'm assuming it was DirecTV since it was on Fox Sports West.

I was PM'ed that the SXRD sets do show up on Crutchfield's site if you go Televisions->Big Screen -> page 2. And they do. I was further filtering on Sony after Big Screen, and they do not show up then. Also if you filter on the screen size. Not sure if they don't show up after this level of filtering because they are out of stock or something like that...

All I had to do was type in "SXRD" in the search feature and there they were!

It *better* have a better bulb life... my KF-60XBR800 has over 7400 hours on the original bulb...

[QUOTE=tonydeluce][QUOTE=frokta]

The sales guy was great, he went and grabbed a new Samsung 1080i hdmi capable player and plugged it in to both TV's one at a time for us.

One last question. Which scenes did you demo on the DVD player.

I am interested in how the shadow detail compared. I haven't had
to chance side by side compare the Samsung 1080p DLP to the Qualia 06
but from what I observed on both the Samsung seems to have a much
higher CR and noticably better shadow detail.

I believe the SXRDs soon to be out have a much improved CR over the Qualia
though...

I'll just simply reiterate how frickin' excited I am about the arrival of these sets and if I had a hammer (I'd hammer in the morning) and nails I'd be able to nail-down my local dealer about the arrival times of these sets. Apparently Sony is being unusually vague about this...:confused:

Jason (given a second chance)

I probably should have qualified my statement by saying that I currently watch Directv on a 10 year old 32" Sony CRT. I am assuming that Directv is digital SD and not analogue SD. So - does Directv SD look better than analogue from cable?

I cant speak for your local cable but I have Adelphia Digital Cable in West Los Angeles. There is saddly a huge difference from digital to analog channels, to the point that sometimes I flip a station and think I would be better off using an OTA antenna. Conversly on the digital stations the picture tends to look clean and clear and of course the HD channels have an awesome picture (blah blah overcompressed its still pretty).

I'll just simply reiterate how frickin' excited I am about the arrival of these sets and if I had a hammer (I'd hammer in the morning) and nails I'd be able to nail-down my local dealer about the arrival times of these sets. Apparently Sony is being unusually vague about this...:confused:

Jason (given a second chance)
My dealer said, "SONY = Soon Only Not Yet".

Cute... now gimmie my damn TV. :mad:


:D

Yeah, give me the goods! Heck...I was trying to gear myself up for waiting until October (don't know how I'd do it) and now they're here a month early...strange? Yes...but that's great! Let's light this proverbial candle!

J.

To the earlier questions: You can never, ever adjust the convergence on this TV. If it's off at the factory, it's off for the duration.

To everyone who wants to hear something "nutty": I am semi-seriously contemplating getting one of these TVs. I am really more interested in a 60-65 inch plasma or LCD for my wall, but there will need to be a moving-panel system constructed and we have a lot of higher priorities on our home right now. It's not a money issue, but a time issue.

The money issue is that I'm not willing to pay the early-adopter tax anymore. I upgrade too often to do that and I can't mentally stomach it. I don't like what it does to my bank account either, but really this is a matter of no longer being able to tolerate being the guy who pays $20,000 for a 65-inch Sharp LCD knowing it's going to be less than half as expensive within 24 months. And for those of you who think that means I won't ever buy anything, know that I've bought 3 different flat-panel TVs over the past 5 years and a projector, too.

I just basically decided that a 60+ inch flat panel should run $8,000 or less and so I won't be buying one until it's down there for a 1080p unit with great picture quality. I believe that day will come -- but not for about 18-30 months.

So what am I to do? I keep toying with a 45-inch Sharp LCD or a 50-inch Panasonic plasma. And I keep thinking three things:

(1) It ain't going on the wall until I have the panel system built

(2) Moving a TV that expensive up to the bedroom in a year or two is questionable given how absolutely little I watch TV in the bedroom (something I don't really see changing much)

(3) How can I live with such a small TV for so long? I'm on a 37-inch now from my prior home and it's just way too small... Does 45-50 buy me enough? I'm no longer sure that's acceptable for a year or two... Or three...

Anyway, this post is somewhere near off topic, but I wanted to share it because it demonstrates my personal excitement and enthusiasm for the SXRD TVs. The fact they'll be real soon rather than much later. The great PQ of the Qualia 004 and 006. The fact that the only thing those two are missing to me is great sequential CR and the dynamic iris should deliver that....

The 60-inch is pretty big and the temporary space is maybe too small. But if we lost the component stand to a low, wide stand it just might work for a while.

This post was in part a thought experiment to see how the idea worked when I "said it aloud". I hope it helped some people see an idea they hadn't before. And if you have any thoughts, feel free to share them with me in PM or in the thread -- if they are on topic.

Mark

To the earlier questions: You can never, ever adjust the convergence on this TV. If it's off at the factory, it's off for the duration.

To everyone who wants to hear something "nutty": I am semi-seriously contemplating getting one of these TVs. I am really more interested in a 60-65 inch plasma or LCD for my wall, but there will need to be a moving-panel system constructed and we have a lot of higher priorities on our home right now. It's not a money issue, but a time issue.

The money issue is that I'm not willing to pay the early-adopter tax anymore. I upgrade too often to do that and I can't mentally stomach it. I don't like what it does to my bank account either, but really this is a matter of no longer being able to tolerate being the guy who pays $20,000 for a 65-inch Sharp LCD knowing it's going to be less than half as expensive within 24 months. And for those of you who think that means I won't ever buy anything, know that I've bought 3 different flat-panel TVs over the past 5 years and a projector, too.

I just basically decided that a 60+ inch flat panel should run $8,000 or less and so I won't be buying one until it's down there for a 1080p unit with great picture quality. I believe that day will come -- but not for about 18-30 months.

So what am I to do? I keep toying with a 45-inch Sharp LCD or a 50-inch Panasonic plasma. And I keep thinking three things:

(1) It ain't going on the wall until I have the panel system built

(2) Moving a TV that expensive up to the bedroom in a year or two is questionable given how absolutely little I watch TV in the bedroom (something I don't really see changing much)

(3) How can I live with such a small TV for so long? I'm on a 37-inch now from my prior home and it's just way too small... Does 45-50 buy me enough? I'm no longer sure that's acceptable for a year or two... Or three...

Anyway, this post is somewhere near off topic, but I wanted to share it because it demonstrates my personal excitement and enthusiasm for the SXRD TVs. The fact they'll be real soon rather than much later. The great PQ of the Qualia 004 and 006. The fact that the only thing those two are missing to me is great sequential CR and the dynamic iris should deliver that....

The 60-inch is pretty big and the temporary space is maybe too small. But if we lost the component stand to a low, wide stand it just might work for a while.

This post was in part a thought experiment to see how the idea worked when I "said it aloud". I hope it helped some people see an idea they hadn't before. And if you have any thoughts, feel free to share them with me in PM or in the thread -- if they are on topic.

Mark

Not crazy at all. I have recently been informed by someone who has seen
an "almost production" 60 in. SXRD side by side with a production
Samsung 61 in. 1080p DLP and his perception is that the blacks are
blacker on the SXRD and the colors are more vibrant and natural looking.
If this is true, and significantly so, and the CR is what it could be, I will upgrade
to the new SXRD as soon as a 70 in. SXRD or new Qualia is available.

I guess we will see if this set delivers shortly...

ROGO,

What do you think has better PQ the Qualia 006 or 50-inch Panasonic plasma?

If you don't want to answer this question in public could you please PM me.

Thanks.

Tonydeluca
Do you know anything about a new SXRD Qualia??

Or is there "a soon to be released" new updated version of the Qualia 006/004??
Anyone?
Thanks.

Hey..Newbie here!!
I’ve been following this thread for a long time, finally my first post. Like empire of one, I was a kdf60xs955 owner for a couple of weeks. I came to this site, heard about the SXRD sets & I returned the xs955. I currently have a Sony 53 inch XBR in my den, which I’ve had for 8 years. I have the space for a 70 inch but the price of the Qualia keeps me from getting one. The KDSR60XBR1 will have to do. I will be sitting 16 feet from the set most of the time. My kitchen overlooks the den & while watching TV from the dinner table, I am a whopping 37 feet away. In the bedroom I have the 34” superfine pitch XBR. (D_J_V, I recognize your set. That’s an HS510 isn’t it?? I had a hard time deciding between the HS510 & the XBR). I have already pre-ordered this set. I figure, even if its only marginally better than the XS955, I will be happy with it. I was very happy with the 955. I only returned it because of the new SXRD sets. Another thing I liked about the XS955 was the fact that the remote instructions for the 34” XBR and the XS955 are EXACTLY the same. I use the home theatre master mx-700 to control my gear, & I must say I was very pleased to see that the settings for my bedroom XBR fully controlled the XS955. Every function worked. I didn’t have to add a thing. I hope the KDSR60XBR1 is the same way.
I need 2 questions answered. #1) I’m having a table built so can someone please give me the dimensions of the FOOTPRINT for the KDSR60XBR1.
#2) Since this is a set with new unproven technology, how many of you will be purchasing the extended warranty. Maybe some Qualia owners can ring in & comment on the reliability of there sets so far.
Thanks - Snoop

Tonydeluca
Do you know anything about a new SXRD Qualia??

Or is there "a soon to be released" new updated version of the Qualia 006/004??
Anyone?
Thanks.

I don't know of any "soon to be released" 70 in SXRD or Qualia but
I am looking for one sometime in the first half of next year. I
base this on what some Sony employees have said and also on
the fact that the current Qualia is still using the last generation
of SXRD chips.

TurboBusa, I'm in the same boat as you. In addition to being a newbie here, I was ready to pull the trigger on the XBR950 recently. As an early adopter in the past, I don't have the guts to buy any device based on just the reviews, but can't imagine I'll be disappointed when I see the R50XBR1. This was only reinforced this weekend when I had the chance to see how well the XBR950 looked when compared to the Samsung HLR6168.


* I too will make a 'second' request for the Footprint of this device as I too will need a custom stand for my room.

Steve.

I don't know of any "soon to be released" 70 in SXRD or Qualia but
I am looking for one sometime in the first half of next year. I
base this on what some Sony employees have said and also on
the fact that the current Qualia is still using the last generation
of SXRD chips.

Tony,

By your statement "first half of next year," could you give me the guesses for the months?

EVERYONE:

When does Sony announce new TV's? What month and at what show?

Thanks guys.

For those looking for the footprints, my assumption is that it will be the same as the XS series' footprint. Both the 55" and 60" XS bases measure 36 1/4" wide. However, the 50" SXRD is substantially smaller at only 57 1/4 inches wide, so you'll want do be sure before having something custom built. For both sets, the SU-GW12 stand is recommended.

60XS Cut Sheet (http://www.sonystyle.com/intershoproot/eCS/Store/en/documents/specifications/KDF60XS955Cut.pdf)

55XS Cut Sheet (http://www.sonystyle.com/intershoproot/eCS/Store/en/documents/specifications/KDF55XS955Cut.pdf)

Jason

Are we reasonably sure that the speakers on the XBR1 are not removable. I ask this for several reasons:

1. I really hate the look of the speakers even though I know thats a stupid reason not to buy a set.

2. The speakers on both the Q006 and the XS955 are removable. Since the XBR! is using the same chassis as the 955 is seems like the speakers should be removable although I don't see the seam in the plastic under the screen where they would remove. I'm really hoping that the picture may be misleading.

3. I had the opportunity last week to view a Q006, Samsung 6178, and Mits 62875 side by side. THe Q clearly had the better picture (deeper colors, sharper image, better shadow detail), The 6178 was also very good but clearly a step down from the Q and although a but better overall than the Mits. The really surprising thing was that the Mits also had better shadow detail than the 6178 even given the 78's overall better contrast. The lack of shadow detail was one of the reasons I didn't buy a DLP (specifically the Samsung) last fall. I tried most every adjustment but in every darker scene, the Q had much better detail.

I'd feel a whole lot better about the XBR1 if the speakers would come off!

EVERYONE:

When does Sony announce new TV's? What month and at what show?

Thanks guys.Sony really scattered things this year. The 70" Qualia 006 was shown first at last year's CEDIA show in September as an XBR. I'm suspecting that is where the KDS-R60/50XBR1 will be shown to the mainstream. It coincides with the 9/19 Crutchfield date. Sony was pretty quiet for the January CES show where many other manufacturers announced new sets. The A10 and A20 series were shown around March at the annual Sony line show for dealers for June/July delivery.

After looking at the photos at Crutchfield, it does seem like both SXRDs share the same base.

Jason

XS955 are removable.Maybe with a hacksaw.

...2. The speakers on both the Q006 and the XS955 are removable. Since the XBR! is using the same chassis as the 955 is seems like the speakers should be removable although I don't see the seam in the plastic under the screen where they would remove...
The XS speakers are absolutely NOT removable...don't know where you got that info, but much to the chagrin of many, neither the XS speakers or the new SXRD speakers are removable. You'll have to spend a bit more to get this feature! :D

Jason

Maybe with a hacksaw.
Did somebody say Sawzall...? :D

Jason

[QUOTE=frokta][QUOTE=tonydeluce]

One last question. Which scenes did you demo on the DVD player.

I am interested in how the shadow detail compared. I haven't had
to chance side by side compare the Samsung 1080p DLP to the Qualia 06
but from what I observed on both the Samsung seems to have a much
higher CR and noticably better shadow detail.

I believe the SXRDs soon to be out have a much improved CR over the Qualia
though...

The scenes were a forrest "wire-fu" fight, an interior shot with that super honey what's her name? Xing Xee Min or something? And then another one with her in what looked like a field of wheat. (can you tell I have not seen this film? I hate this films anchored in high melo-drama ;) )

Blacks were definitley better on the Sammy, but it was also a touch more crunched looking. My wife prefered the way the DVD looked on the SXRD though. I think I liked it better on the Sammy. To be perfectly honest... if I were going to buy a 1080p projection set based on what I saw at Magnolia, I'd spring for that Samsung 61". It's a bargain at $3400-3600 online. And I really don't see any significant advantage in the picture from SXRD. But, I also don't see the "rainbows". Both sets look really great.

After seeing the composite picture of the SXRD 60" in an earlier post, I cannot bring myself to buy this set. I HATE those speakers, I HATE the fact that they are silver, and I am so very frustrated with Sony for not following the design concept of the Qualia. That is close to perfect....this new thing is atrocious. Can you visualize this elephant-eared silver monstrosity in a brand new pecky cyprus custom cabinet? I can't...sorry Sony, it's no wonder you're losing money. You have the right idea with the A10, so why not follow through with it ! Arrgh, I'm tempted to take up golf, it couldn't be this frustrating.

I was looking forward to these SXRD models as being the very first model I could buy without experiencing buyer's remorse a year later. The speakers are undesirable, but definitely not a deal breaker to me. No 1080p input (at least it looks like that's the case) is a red flag to me. If Directv had it's MPEG-4 HDTV ready to go now, I'd probably make a different decision and only have "minor buyer's remorse". I'm guessing that even if we do get MPEG-4 HDTV by this fall, we probably won't get a receiver that has a DVR until the spring 2006. My wife and I have become totally dependent on using the TIVO feature on our Directv receiver, so probably wouldn't buy a new Directv receiver until it includes a DVR. I've been waiting for HDTV for years now, so what's another 6 months. What's the worse that could happen by waiting....possibly no positive changes to the model....but probably a slight price decrease. I still think 2006 will be HDTV's breakout year.

I'm sure there will be thousands of people that buy these models and will never regret their decision. I'm definetly not trying to suggest that my decision is the correct decision for anyone other than myself. And I know I'll be VERY jealous in 5 weeks or so when people start posting positive praise for their new SXRD RPTV.

Who else out there is waiting? Just curious.

[QUOTE=tonydeluce][QUOTE=frokta]

And I really don't see any significant advantage in the picture from SXRD. But, I also don't see the "rainbows". Both sets look really great.

FWIW, I didn't see the rainbow effect until after I had my Sammy home and setup in my living room. Now, if there's high contrast scene and I look away at the clock or whatever, it's like I'm transformed to the Wizard of Oz.

My 50" A10 will be here Friday.

ROGO,

What do you think has better PQ the Qualia 006 or 50-inch Panasonic plasma?

If you don't want to answer this question in public could you please PM me.


I kinda think it's a bit apples to bananas.

They are both awfully good displays. The Qualia is so much bigger it's a different experience. The Panasonic's sequential contrast (aka on-off contrast) is better to me as are the viewing angles. The Qualia is "film-like" and has no visible grid at any distance.

Both need to be tweaked out to produce the right colors, but both are awfully good.

Can anyone recommend an ISF trained calibrator in the Phoenix area?

I kinda think it's a bit apples to bananas.

They are both awfully good displays. The Qualia is so much bigger it's a different experience. The Panasonic's sequential contrast (aka on-off contrast) is better to me as are the viewing angles. The Qualia is "film-like" and has no visible grid at any distance.

Both need to be tweaked out to produce the right colors, but both are awfully good.


OK, but which one would you rather have in your living room? Price independent?

OK, but which one would you rather have in your living room? Price independent?
I think Rogo will go with big - I would if I could. ;)

Tony,

By your statement "first half of next year," could you give me the guesses for the months?

Thanks guys.


I have no idea nor does anyone I know...

[QUOTE=tonydeluce][QUOTE=frokta]

The scenes were a forrest "wire-fu" fight, an interior shot with that super honey what's her name? Xing Xee Min or something? And then another one with her in what looked like a field of wheat. (can you tell I have not seen this film? I hate this films anchored in high melo-drama ;) )

Blacks were definitley better on the Sammy, but it was also a touch more crunched looking. My wife prefered the way the DVD looked on the SXRD though. I think I liked it better on the Sammy. To be perfectly honest... if I were going to buy a 1080p projection set based on what I saw at Magnolia, I'd spring for that Samsung 61". It's a bargain at $3400-3600 online. And I really don't see any significant advantage in the picture from SXRD. But, I also don't see the "rainbows". Both sets look really great.

Was the Samsung in "movie" mode? The PQ is a much better in this mode
than the other modes...

I think Rogo will go with big - I would if I could. ;)

I'm trying to make the 60-65 inch work on the wall. As I said, it could be 6-9 months before we get that built and in place. And, besides, the bigger flat panels with 1080p aren't even ready yet....

I never would've considered an RPTV but since we moved in, we've never properly set things up anyway. The component stand sits near the TV, the components sit mostly on the floor. An RPTV on a stand would look cleaner.

Could I be happy with that for 1-2 years? Would it make more sense than a 45-inch Sharp or 50-inch Panasonic? The SXRD could never go to the bedroom, but I could move my Sharp up there or replace it with something that's right for the bedroom size-wise.

Oh, too many decisions.... CEDIA is but a month away.... Answers are there.

Yes the SXRD uses the standard buckle. I'm going to call SonyStyle on monday to see if they sell a strap and buckle for me to secure to my existing stand and snap into the SXRD.FYI, you can purchase the buckle as a separate part. You have to supply your own strap. You can buy online. Search for part number 403371801 at the link below:
http://servicesales.sel.sony.com

...My 50" A10 will be here Friday.

Guess you decided the A10 was a better deal after all...where did you finally get to see one and purchase one? I seem to waiver from the SXRD back to A10 every couple of days. I'll be waiting to see your impressions of the A10.

[QUOTE=frokta][QUOTE=tonydeluce]

Was the Samsung in "movie" mode? The PQ is a much better in this mode
than the other modes...

Indeed it was.

Also, this stuff about rainbows. One of my work mates has a Samsung HLNxxx something or other 56" 720p set. Neither one of us can detect any rainbows on his set. Even with his xbox plugged in and watching the high contrast splash screen to Project Gotham racing. His neigbor detects it the moment he steps into the TV room. He does not even have to look away.

It's pretty amazing that he got his set about $3k just 6 months ago, HD ready, no tuner, and now you can get a cable card ready with tuner 1080p set at 60" for a tiny bit more.

And lastly. People keep mentioning how there is no visible screen door effect on the SXRD. This is DEFINITELY true. It is a seemless image. As is the Samsung. You see no pixels on either set. You do see some strange processing patterns on both though if you stand close enough to the screen. But from a proper viewing distance, both of these sets are creamy smooth. It's too bad HD is still so low bandwidth. When the picture is this sharp, it seems that the compression becomes far more noticeable & distracting.

Guess you decided the A10 was a better deal after all...where did you finally get to see one and purchase one? I seem to waiver from the SXRD back to A10 every couple of days.

Even though the WAF was "authorized", in the end I just cannot justify spending $4k on a TV...no matter how much better another $1.5k buys me.

I finally found a 50" on display at my local Tweeter's and spent an hour watching and fiddling as much as they'd let me. They never could get a SD feed to the system so I had to go on what other members that already have the A10 have said about SD.

Went to CC at lunch and they had the 42" on display but no stock on the 50", so I got it on order with them and it should be in Thu/Fri.

I think I'm going to skip the CC warranty and purchase an Extended Service Contract through Sony since I keep the TV plugged up to a UPS that insures anything attached to it for spikes, etc.

Haven't haggled a price yet, but to be honest, I'm ok with it at MSRP just to be done with this drama of buying a new TV!

[QUOTE=tonydeluce][QUOTE=frokta]

Indeed it was.

Also, this stuff about rainbows. One of my work mates has a Samsung HLNxxx something or other 56" 720p set. Neither one of us can detect any rainbows on his set. Even with his xbox plugged in and watching the high contrast splash screen to Project Gotham racing. His neigbor detects it the moment he steps into the TV room. He does not even have to look away.

It's pretty amazing that he got his set about $3k just 6 months ago, HD ready, no tuner, and now you can get a cable card ready with tuner 1080p set at 60" for a tiny bit more.

And lastly. People keep mentioning how there is no visible screen door effect on the SXRD. This is DEFINITELY true. It is a seemless image. As is the Samsung. You see no pixels on either set. You do see some strange processing patterns on both though if you stand close enough to the screen. But from a proper viewing distance, both of these sets are creamy smooth. It's too bad HD is still so low bandwidth. When the picture is this sharp, it seems that the compression becomes far more noticeable & distracting.

Thanks!

I was looking forward to these SXRD models as being the very first model I could buy without experiencing buyer's remorse a year later. The speakers are undesirable, but definitely not a deal breaker to me. No 1080p input (at least it looks like that's the case) is a red flag to me. If Directv had it's MPEG-4 HDTV ready to go now, I'd probably make a different decision and only have "minor buyer's remorse". I'm guessing that even if we do get MPEG-4 HDTV by this fall, we probably won't get a receiver that has a DVR until the spring 2006. My wife and I have become totally dependent on using the TIVO feature on our Directv receiver, so probably wouldn't buy a new Directv receiver until it includes a DVR. I've been waiting for HDTV for years now, so what's another 6 months. What's the worse that could happen by waiting....possibly no positive changes to the model....but probably a slight price decrease. I still think 2006 will be HDTV's breakout year.

I'm sure there will be thousands of people that buy these models and will never regret their decision. I'm definetly not trying to suggest that my decision is the correct decision for anyone other than myself. And I know I'll be VERY jealous in 5 weeks or so when people start posting positive praise for their new SXRD RPTV.

Who else out there is waiting? Just curious.

I'm in the same boat. Hooked on TIVO, tied to Direct TV for football, waiting for HD, love the idea of the Sony 60" SXRD. Now.

My dilemma now is do I:

a) buy the Sony SXRD in Sept and get Direct TV's MPEG-2 HD stuff
or
b) wait until the Direct TV MPEG-4 DVR/TIVO stuff is out ("early '06", right?) and buy the Sony SXRD or equivelent then.

It sounds like "a" will cost me an extra thousand bucks (between Direct TV costs and Sony TV lack of discount), but I'll have 6 months of big tv watching. 6 months of big tv watching that includes football season - but also 6 months of the wife complaining that her girlie shows are blurry.

Since I'm not completely unhappy with my 32" XBR today, it sounds like the smart thing to do would be to go with "b" - but I'm not so good at waiting. 4 to 1 I go with "a".

I think the laws of deduction would show that I am not smart.

Since I'm not completely unhappy with my 32" XBR today, it sounds like the smart thing to do would be to go with "b" - but I'm not so good at waiting. 4 to 1 I go with "a".

I think the laws of deduction would show that I am not smart.

I don't think any of us are smart!!! :D :D :D :D

I is smart!

:D

Janibrewski,
I know option 'a' is tempting. I'm in the same boat you are. As hard as it is I'm thinking about waiting till 2006 myself. The hardest thing to do is going to be to not come back to this forum!

Ken

I don't think any of us are smart!!! :D :D :D :D

If I was smart I would still be watching a 27 inch tv that can be bought for under 300 dollars, and expected to operate trouble free for 10 to 20 years..lol :)

Arrgh, I'm tempted to take up golf, it couldn't be this frustrating.
Not if you golf like I do...:D Of course, you can always ease the pain with a couple of cold ones...

Jason

Woo, I'm on a posting rampage. As much as I want to get the SXRD the first month, "sight unseen," I'll have to wait to Good Guys has AT LEAST no interest financing for 36 months (PREFERBABLY [okay maybe no less than 24 months]). By the time the new models come out, I'll still be paying off the one I have. And if I do?? [decide to] get the second generation as well, I'll have to sell of my first one to help pay for the new one. But I'll only get second gen if it has 1080p 60 for PS3. Who know's what I'll do. I've done some CRAZY things when came to buying electronics.

The "consensus" (3 of you guys) I'm gathering from this thread is that that Sony will probably release the SECOND GENERATION SXRD the first half/early next year. What that exactly means no one really knows. I'm wondering if I should wait.

Thanks for listening.

If I was smart I would still be watching a 27 inch tv that can be bought for under 300 dollars, and expected to operate trouble free for 10 to 20 years..lol :)

A guy I work with just bought some no-name 27" tv for $137!!!!!!!!
UN-believable!!!

Woo, I'm on a posting rampage. As much as I want to get the SXRD the first month, "sight unseen," I'll have to wait to Good Guys has AT LEAST no interest financing for 36 months (PREFERBABLY [okay maybe no less than 24 months]). By the time the new models come out, I'll still be paying off the one I have. And if I do?? [decide to] get the second generation as well, I'll have to sell of my first one to help pay for the new one. But I'll only get second gen if it has 1080p 60 for PS3. Who know's what I'll do. I've done some CRAZY things when came to buying electronics.

The "consensus" (3 of you guys) I'm gathering from this thread is that that Sony will probably release new SXRD the first half/early next year. What that exactly means no one really knows. I'm wondering if I should wait.

Thanks for listening.


Looks like Sony is releasing the new SXRDs next month?

Sorry Tony (I should have made it clear) I should have said SECOND generation SXRD for " early 06'? ".

I WAS TALKING LIKE THE CURRENT SXRD WERE ALREADY OUT. :o MY APOLOGIES GUYS.

Sorry Tony (I should have made it clear) I should have said SECOND generation SXRD for " early 06'? ".I wouldn't bank on that. I would expect to see new, more better ;), HTPS LCD sets from Sony in the first half of the year. and a revision to the SXRD line in the fall.

I think I will pull the trigger around Christmas time; maybe the sale offers will be sweet by then.

Sorry Tony (I should have made it clear) I should have said SECOND generation SXRD for " early 06'? ".

I WAS TALKING LIKE THE CURRENT SXRD WERE ALREADY OUT. :o MY APOLOGIES GUYS.

The SXRDs shipping next month are using the 2nd. generation Sony SXRD chips.
I don't think we will see 3rd generation chips for at least another year or two after
these nor next generation SXRD 50 in. and 60 in. display for at least a year.

What we may see in the 1st half of next year is a 70 in. SXRD or QUALIA
using the second generation SXRD chips.

As I've posted, my local dealer has indicated that Sony is very vague as far as ship dates for the new sets. He keeps his ear to the ground and has some very good contacts at Sony but hasn't heard much of anything, other than the fact that the sets are coming out this fall. I'll harrass him again later this week for new info. It's weird that they'd be coming out as soon as Sep 19 (Crutchfield) and still no official release from Sony...uh oh, do I hear another one of my famous conspiracy theories in the making? :D:D:D

Rockin' out to The Clash,

Jason

A guy I work with just bought some no-name 27" tv for $137!!!!!!!!
UN-believable!!!

That is truly amazing....just think...it cost far LESS than the LIGHTBULBS for our high tech projection tv's! Does something seem wrong here? :)

Curious what others are doing about a stand...I'm about halfway through building ours (based on the XS specs) and just wondered what other people had planned. A stand-alone TV stand or built-in wall unit? I know that the speakers have been a dealbreaker for many because of the inordinate extra width, which I'm not thrilled about either, but it fortunately doesn't affect our situation.

Jason

That is truly amazing....just think...it cost far LESS than the LIGHTBULBS for our high tech projection tv's! Does something seem wrong here? :)
Well you figure that the average person probably spends just a couple of hundred dollars on speakers or HTIB, whereas many here spend upwards of $10K for a 7.1 setup. I've shelled out about $4,500 on speakers for our main room and I've still got to upgrade the surrounds and I got the sub for 10% msrp. Then there's the kitchen, the deck, the basement, the bedroom, etc. A/V is the one place where I can't deny myself, and I love it. The problem is that there's always something that I'd like to upgrade and it makes my wife crazy. Oh well...just put on one of her CDs every once in a while to appease her and reiterate to her how awesome the setup sounds. :D

Jason

If I was smart I would still be watching a 27 inch tv that can be bought for under 300 dollars, and expected to operate trouble free for 10 to 20 years..lol :)

That is exactly what I am doing at the moment. I have a 27" Sony Trinitron (KV-27EXR15) that I bought over 12 years ago (I think it was $750 then). The manufacture date says July 1990 and I think I bought the floor model. Still works great and is my main TV. I am getting close to pulling the trigger and going to HDTV and the 60" SXRD is what I have my eye on. I kinda am hoping to have the new TV for quite some time as well, so I was hoping the new SXRD would accept 1080P input as sort of a future proofing. Especially considering how much I will be paying for it. I might just bite the bullet and go for it anyway.

Well you figure that the average person probably spends just a couple of hundred dollars on speakers or HTIB, whereas many here spend upwards of $10K for a 7.1 setup. I've shelled out about $4,500 on speakers for our main room and I've still got to upgrade the surrounds and I got the sub for 10% msrp. Then there's the kitchen, the deck, the basement, the bedroom, etc. A/V is the one place where I can't deny myself, and I love it. The problem is that there's always something that I'd like to upgrade and it makes my wife crazy. Oh well...just put on one of her CDs every once in a while to appease her and reiterate to her how awesome the setup sounds. :D

Jason/


I think this thread has more things in common than just the SXRD 50" & 60".

Curious what others are doing about a stand...I'm about halfway through building ours (based on the XS specs) and just wondered what other people had planned. A stand-alone TV stand or built-in wall unit? I know that the speakers have been a dealbreaker for many because of the inordinate extra width, which I'm not thrilled about either, but it fortunately doesn't affect our situation.

Jason


I will get the 60" set, and will buy a stand-alone TV stand which i will buy and have the store put together, i could never build a rack and i am not even capable of putting one together! Pitiful, huh? I will probably have a component rack next to it, I dont want my components down by the floor underneath the tv. I dont like the looks of a large wall-unit around a big tv, to me it makes the tv look smaller, and i really dont think it looks good with this particular design (the wing speakers, which i like).

What is everyone doing about storage for dvds, once you reach hundreds of them, it does become a problem.

Media storage is the bane of my existence! Dramatic, I know, but it is such a pain in the rear. I've only got about 50 DVDs and maybe 50 XBox games, but we're approching 1000 CDs and there's no indication of a slowing trend. I built our previous media cabinet and had 4 drawers, each of which held about 150 CDs or maybe 80 DVDs, but that's no longer an option. Furthermore, I don't want a honkin' piece of furniture that looks like a bedroom dresser or a mule chest sitting in our living room. I don't like those revolving towers or racks and I don't want our little crumbsnatcher pulling anything down on himself. We've just about decided to build semi-built-in modular shelving and try to make it look interesting instead of just a bookshelf. That way, I can always build more sets down the line and add on to the existing unit. We'll probably add a couple of doors here and there and have some knick-knack spots (can you say knick-knack nook?) for pictures and such. I'm still in the paper-and-pencil stage with this, and trying to tie it in with the other pieces that I'm building, but I think that it'll fit the bill.

Jason

The SXRDs shipping next month are using the 2nd. generation Sony SXRD chips.
I don't think we will see 3rd generation chips for at least another year or two after
these nor next generation SXRD 50 in. and 60 in. display for at least a year.

What we may see in the 1st half of next year is a 70 in. SXRD or QUALIA
using the second generation SXRD chips.

I don't think anyone here is looking for 3rd generation SXRD chips. What we are mostly looking for is for these new "2nd generation SXRD" chips to be packaged in a set that includes 1080p HDMI chips. These HDMI chips have been available for months, but no manufacturers are including them in their sets YET. The hope is that in the spring, SONY will put out a new "2nd generation SXRD" model that has the 1080p HDMI chips (and maybe a better cabinet that doesn't give you those dumbo ear speakers). Or if SONY truly has no interest in 1080p inputs on their displays, PLEASE stop telling us that the PS3 will output 1080p!!! As long as consumers get this mixed message, most of us are just going to sit on our credit card month after month. I would almost welcome a message from SONY stating that PS3 and Blu-ray will NOT output 1080p, then I could just buy the 60" SXRD model coming out this fall.

Does anyone know if the PS3's games are 1080p or if they're 1080i and the hardware has the deinterlacer??

Does anyone know if the PS3's games are 1080p or if they're 1080i and the hardware has the deinterlacer??

Sony has announced it will vary game by game, and that they are not forcing a minimal resolution on the developers, ala XBOX 360 and the 720p. Apparently output resolution will be selectable on games that support the higher resolutions - this was a framerate driven concession to the enduser, as even with a next gen video processor, 1080p games at 60fps will be a tall order.

I don't think anyone here is looking for 3rd generation SXRD chips. What we are mostly looking for is for these new "2nd generation SXRD" chips to be packaged in a set that includes 1080p HDMI chips. These HDMI chips have been available for months, but no manufacturers are including them in their sets YET. The hope is that in the spring, SONY will put out a new "2nd generation SXRD" model that has the 1080p HDMI chips (and maybe a better cabinet that doesn't give you those dumbo ear speakers). Or if SONY truly has no interest in 1080p inputs on their displays, PLEASE stop telling us that the PS3 will output 1080p!!! As long as consumers get this mixed message, most of us are just going to sit on our credit card month after month. I would almost welcome a message from SONY stating that PS3 and Blu-ray will NOT output 1080p, then I could just buy the 60" SXRD model coming out this fall.

Careful as to how you phrase things. First of all, Sony does not have ANY plans to introduce a "2nd generation SXRD with 1080P HDMI". Why on earth would they go to all this trouble only to introduce another set 6 months later? It doesn't make any sense from a manufacturing standpoint, not to mention it would infuriate a lot of loyal customers.

What WAS said (ny tony, who appears to have some sony contacts) was that there was some speculation of another 70" size product coming out Spring of '06....we'll have to wait and see on that one.

I believe Blu-Rays output is to be 1080i, as that was already set as a standard. Someone step in if I'm wrong.

So, say, a 70" SXRD WAS to come out next year (even if it was in the Fall), how much do you guys think the MSRP would be on it)? Sorry that I was the one to "bring up" the topic about a 70" SXRD (NON Qualia) again. :) To be honest I'm not (quite) sure why I'm inquiring about a 70 incher. I haven't even taken measurements to see if the 60" SXRD would be pushing it in my living room (a 70" might be "like" a 80 inch in my living room). Thanks.

So, say, a 70" SXRD WAS to come out next year (even if it was in the Fall), how much do you guys think the MSRP would be on it)?
My guess would be somewhere between $6499-6999 msrp.

Jason

Media storage is the bane of my existence! Dramatic, I know, but it is such a pain in the rear. I've only got about 50 DVDs and maybe 50 XBox games, but we're approching 1000 CDs and there's no indication of a slowing trend. I built our previous media cabinet and had 4 drawers, each of which held about 150 CDs or maybe 80 DVDs, but that's no longer an option. Furthermore, I don't want a honkin' piece of furniture that looks like a bedroom dresser or a mule chest sitting in our living room. I don't like those revolving towers or racks and I don't want our little crumbsnatcher pulling anything down on himself. We've just about decided to build semi-built-in modular shelving and try to make it look interesting instead of just a bookshelf. That way, I can always build more sets down the line and add on to the existing unit. We'll probably add a couple of doors here and there and have some knick-knack spots (can you say knick-knack nook?) for pictures and such. I'm still in the paper-and-pencil stage with this, and trying to tie it in with the other pieces that I'm building, but I think that it'll fit the bill.

Jason

For the amount of time, expense and grief you are contemplating, you can get all those CDs either on a fairly idiot-proof PC or on a dedicated digital-music appliance and move the CDs into a storage room.

My guess would be somewhere between $6499-6999 msrp.

Jason

OUCH! :eek: (for me that is)

I happened to see a Qualia 006 at a Sony Style outlet in Las Vegas over the weekend. They had a Blu-Ray demo disk running Spiderman 2 previews, and the output on the Japanese Blu-Ray player was 1080i. Unless something changes, I assume that US players will be the same.

By the way, I had never seen a Qualia before, and it looks outstanding. Even the 1080i DirecTV broadcast looked great--as long as the picture wasn't changing too much :)

I happened to see a Qualia 006 at a Sony Style outlet in Las Vegas over the weekend. They had a Blu-Ray demo disk running Spiderman 2 previews, and the output on the Japanese Blu-Ray player was 1080i. Unless something changes, I assume that US players will be the same.

By the way, I had never seen a Qualia before, and it looks outstanding. Even the 1080i DirecTV broadcast looked great--as long as the picture wasn't changing too much :)

C.KINGSLEY,

Is your comment about as long as the picture is not changing too much, in reference to D* "PQ", or about how the Qualia handles (rapid) scene changes? Thanks.

EVERYONE:

BTW, has anyone seen the packaging for Japanese Blu-ray movies?

-- Matthew

My comment was in reference to DirecTVs starved bandwith. In static scenes the picture quality was equally impressive on blu-ray and DirecTV, but during rapid scene changes the quality was greatly reduced on DirecTV.

BTW, has anyone seen the packaging for Japanese Blu-ray movies? I don't quite know what the question is seeking but I know from researching Blu-Ray is that they are presently capable in the labs of creating up to 10 layers of huge data sizes and one of the biggest challenges is in protecting the content as they are much more susceptible to damage.

Can you imagine Netflix using a Blu-Ray? Anyone that's a Netflix member knows they are one of the most efficient companies in their distribution process but the scratches are unbelievable at times. I would expect to see these new Blu-Rays to have a special protective coating as a result and I haven't seen what it is yet - but I would guess demo Blu-rays may have some unique packaging that are being used in the demo units. Sony and their partners have been working on this a long time and we'll see. :D

IIRC, the blu-ray disc will be in a cartridge somewhat like a DVD-RAM disc. That should protect it from scratching via NetFlix delivery.

IIRC, the blu-ray disc will be in a cartridge somewhat like a DVD-RAM disc. That should protect it from scratching via NetFlix delivery.

There are no cartridges for Blu-ray. That was discussed early on and dropped when TDK created a very durable hardcoat layer for the discs (though there is apparently some difficulty -- or expense -- in applying this coating efficiently).

They had a Blu-Ray demo disk running Spiderman 2 previews, and the output on the Japanese Blu-Ray player was 1080i. Unless something changes, I assume that US players will be the same.

The Japanese versions currently on the market have almost nothing in common with what will eventually come to the US, output rez included. All of the details are still being worked out. They just announced that AACS will be the encryption method used on Blu-ray.

While we're on the subject of Blu-Ray:
http://www.i4u.com/article3983.html
A story (Subscription) in the Japanese Nihon Keizai Shimbun Saturday morning news paper talks about TDK's Blu-ray disc plans.

Apparently TDK is already producing 20,000 Blu-ray discs per month today. By the end of 2006 the monthly Blu-ray disc output should reach 500,000 discs.
Is TDK just producing Blu-ray discs for the Sony PS3? The whole mess over the next generation DVD format is not settled yet (HD DVD versus Blu-ray), but it looks like TDK is already moving full steam ahead supporting Sony's Blu-ray. If they do it for the Sony PS3 it makes sense. If they do it for HD movies it would be risky. Who knows what format will prevail. I just hope we end up with one and not with two.

Is anyone contemplating trying to get a deal on these TVs near their shipping date?

I am troubled by $5K for a 60-inch RPTV, no matter how good, given I might move it to another happy home in 2-3 years.

I'm not asking for discussions of price against forum rules, so no dealer links per se, but places to go and deals to seek would be useful.

If you have stuff you can only PM me, feel free to do that, too. I'm especially curious what the margins are for dealers because that tells me a lot about the "bargaining zone."

Mark

Sorry Westa, Stephen, David, and UniInvited Guest. :o I seem to be messing up lately. I was wondering about the BOX COVERS. No big deal after all if no one knows. Thanks.

Careful as to how you phrase things. First of all, Sony does not have ANY plans to introduce a "2nd generation SXRD with 1080P HDMI". Why on earth would they go to all this trouble only to introduce another set 6 months later? It doesn't make any sense from a manufacturing standpoint, not to mention it would infuriate a lot of loyal customers.

What WAS said (ny tony, who appears to have some sony contacts) was that there was some speculation of another 70" size product coming out Spring of '06....we'll have to wait and see on that one.

I believe Blu-Rays output is to be 1080i, as that was already set as a standard. Someone step in if I'm wrong.

You lost me. I was responding to Tony's post which was a response to a post by Tele-TV. Tele-TV was making the same complaint that many others (including myself have made). We WANTED the SXRD coming out this fall to support 1080p HDMI. Since it doesn't look like it will, we are now HOPING they will introduce a new model in the spring that will support 1080p HDMI. It is logical to think that SONY will eventually support 1080p HDMI, the question is when. I don't think anyone here can state for sure what SONY's plans are. Hell, I still think there's a small chance we'll see 1080p HDMI this fall. Crutchfield is taking orders for a model that SONY hasn't even officially announced yet. Until the official specs come out, you can't be sure.

Is anyone contemplating trying to get a deal on these TVs near their shipping date?

I am troubled by $5K for a 60-inch RPTV, no matter how good, given I might move it to another happy home in 2-3 years.

I'm not asking for discussions of price against forum rules, so no dealer links per se, but places to go and deals to seek would be useful.

If you have stuff you can only PM me, feel free to do that, too. I'm especially curious what the margins are for dealers because that tells me a lot about the "bargaining zone."

Mark

I'm afraid supply & demand will rule with these sets when released. The built up demand is so great, even at this early stage, that wholesalers and dealers will be screaming for more stock for months. I don't expect to see much excess around where you could deal for much of a drop in price until at least early next year after the holiday season. Most sales will be right around MSRP initially - IF you can find any SXRD's that aren't pre-sold already. The waiting lists are growing at wholesale, not even talking about retailers yet:<

Blacks were definitely better on the Sammy, but it was also a touch more crunched looking. My wife preferred the way the DVD looked on the SXRD though. I think I liked it better on the Sammy. To be perfectly honest... if I were going to buy a 1080p projection set based on what I saw at Magnolia, I'd spring for that Samsung 61". It's a bargain at $3400-3600 online. And I really don't see any significant advantage in the picture from SXRD. But, I also don't see the "rainbows". Both sets look really great.
Forgive me for my Noob speak...

If anyone is in the east San Fran bay area,Magnolia off of Bollinger in San Ramon has the Qualia and the Sammy 1080 (5678)dlp side by side.
Now i have seen the Qual,and wow!
Some shadow detail in certain dark areas and some pixilation in a few of the background transiton colors and a certain"brightness" in the Sammy.
It has a very impressive picture.
Of course the Qualia had no visible defects at all.
Really outstanding unit.
But the 1080 sammy has a very very NICE PQ.
btw the Qual is on sale for$12500.00 :D
Very impressed with the Sammy,but still waiting to see the new SXRD.
Source was HDNET via Tivo HD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tele-TV
So, say, a 70" SXRD WAS to come out next year (even if it was in the Fall), how much do you guys think the MSRP would be on it)?

My guess would be somewhere between $6499-6999 msrp.

Jason



Jason, is your guess based on what it would take to be competitive with Samsung's 70ish set, or have you been calling Sister Cleo again. :D

Quote: Jason, is your guess based on what it would take to be competitive with Samsung's 70ish set, or have you been calling Sister Cleo again. :D

[in Sister Cleo's :D Voice] from Sister Cleo's Sex talk Line: "I see me stroking you lefty." :D

Demand on the Qulia 006 outstripped supply in the beginning but yet there were some A/V stores selling them below MSRP (~$10-11K)...I hope the same will happen with these sets...

[EDIT: I inquired with my dealer about pricing/availability of these sets and I just heard back from my dealer and he informed me that Sony's official announcement is not until CEDIA and therefore, no dealer, including Crutchfield, can get an order processed on these TVs until CEDIA. My dealer indicated that just yesterday he was told October was the release date.

This might be the Sony marketing machine in action...chumming the waters, getting all the sharks into a feeding frenzy...like they did with the HD DVRs :D]

JimP,

No, no Sister Cleo since she stopped taking my Diner's Club card, but I was gazing into my crystal ball (late stage of beer nuts) and pulled a number out of my black top hat (along with a rabbit). That was just a guess...but I could see it easily higher and possibly lower, though I have a hard time believing that Sony would msrp a 70" SXRD at only $5999, but hopefully I'm wrong.

Rogo,

Thanks for the suggestion...any particular devices that you'd recommend? I don't know if I want to open the HTPC can of worms (my wife will seriously kill me), but maybe that's not necessary with what you're talking about...a monster hard drive and some decent software?

Additionally, my dealer told me that I could expect to get at least 10% off before they even land at his store.

Jason

Item #1IF you can find any SXRD's that aren't pre-sold already. The waiting lists are growing at wholesale, not even talking about retailers yet:<

Item #2no dealer, including Crutchfield, can get an order processed on these TVs until CEDIA. My dealer indicated that just yesterday he was told October was the release date.


Okay who's got the correct info here? Does BenDover's dealer mean order fulfillment? As in, they aren't shipping until after CEDIA?

Item #1

Item #2


Okay who's got the correct info here? Does BenDover's dealer mean order fulfillment? As in, they aren't shipping until after CEDIA?



We are both saying the same thing:)

I would love to know the compromises that Sony will devise to get the sets into AV entusiast's homes. Obviously they are going to steal much of the technology that went into the Qulia but.................I love there new LCD RPTV's so hopefully they can execute on the hype for the new sets. Today I looked at the JVC LCOS set and it really is horrendous. The pixelation on fast paced scenes was very obtrusive and apparent even to my wife. I'm taking large boxy pixels with smearing. Highlighted objects had a shimmering effect and there was a lot of noise in the set. Sony has wrangled excelled reviews for their LCOS sets so we know that it can be done. Lets hope that the compromises are not to great.

I wasn't contesting any other poster's information, just throwing out some more info that I got from another source...just another data point.

I agree withe gazelle that we are saying the same thing :)

Is anyone contemplating trying to get a deal on these TVs near their shipping date?

I'm not asking for discussions of price against forum rules, so no dealer links per se, but places to go and deals to seek would be useful.

If you have stuff you can only PM me, feel free to do that, too. I'm especially curious what the margins are for dealers because that tells me a lot about the "bargaining zone."

Mark

There is typically 30-40% mark-up on consumer electronics. The only advice I can give you in trying to get a good deal is to check with the Purchasing Dept. of the company you work for. Many corporations offer employee discounts through the corporate sales divisions of the stores they do business with. For instance, by going trough the Purchasing Dept. for the the company I work for, I get a 15-25% discount on electronics through a local AV store.

Good luck!

Thanks for the suggestion...any particular devices that you'd recommend? I don't know if I want to open the HTPC can of worms (my wife will seriously kill me), but maybe that's not necessary with what you're talking about...a monster hard drive and some decent software?


We are off topic, so let me be brief...

A Mac Mini, a nicely matched external drive, and the right adapter to get it to talk to your display. iTunes is free. It's a great jukebox, is fairly inexpensive, rips CDs at your leisure (or pay someone to do it), etc. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk further so I don't pollute the topic.

I would love to know the compromises that Sony will devise to get the sets into AV entusiast's homes. Obviously they are going to steal much of the technology that went into the Qulia but.................I love there new LCD RPTV's so hopefully they can execute on the hype for the new sets. Today I looked at the JVC LCOS set and it really is horrendous. The pixelation on fast paced scenes was very obtrusive and apparent even to my wife. I'm taking large boxy pixels with smearing. Highlighted objects had a shimmering effect and there was a lot of noise in the set. Sony has wrangled excelled reviews for their LCOS sets so we know that it can be done. Lets hope that the compromises are not to great.

You have to be really careful not to jump to conclusions on any set unless you have had a chance to control the viewing conditions, most importantly the source.

I've seen posters indicate that the Qualia 006 looked awful in comparison to the new Samsung 1080p's; as an owner of the Qualia 006 I know that something was wrong with that setup. In fact, I was just at a Magnolia HiFi store this past weekend picking up a set for my parents ---aside: got them a tried and true direct view CRT HDTV ... *gasp* ... the damned entertainment center dimensions dictated the final decision...that really bothers me but my parents wouldn't budge, like many here--- and they had a 61in Samsung 1080p that looked just awful; and they are supposed to be a high end experience! What a shame!

Now I'm not defending JVC, I'm just saying, the source and manner of input can mean soooooo much. There was also a new Sharp Acquos that looked awful...I questioned the salesman on this set (since it was our first choice, again b/c of space constraints) and ultimately a cable was not appropriately seated screwing up the colors.

I had thought I had it all settled in my mind. I was going to hold out and wait for the SED sets. The discussion in this thread has me salivating. Now my mind is unmade up.

Nobody has seen either of these technologies. Would anyone care to engage in a mythicalwise, sizewise, pricewise, qualitywise, or anyotherwise speculative discussion of these technologies?

Burt

I have a tendency to believe that there will be bargaining power on these sets. It is not costing Sony any money to set up new production lines since they are using existing ones. They also did not spend a cent on a new cabinet as they are using the 955 cabinet. There is also the fact that there will be a number of offerings for the 1080P and it doesn’t sound like any of the mfr’s have a 1080P connection.

In talking to some co-workers and family members, they are planning to purchase a big screen HDTV in the next 6 – 12 months. These people are what I refer to as the average buyer. Not only don’t they realize the different technologies LCD, LCOS, DLP, etc., for them what it comes down to is the picture and the price. From what they told me, it has to have a good picture and then the price is the next issue. They also have no clue as to the difference between 720P and 1080P.

My ultimate hope is that there are price wars especially approaching the holiday season. :D

Is anyone contemplating trying to get a deal on these TVs near their shipping date?

I am troubled by $5K for a 60-inch RPTV, no matter how good, given I might move it to another happy home in 2-3 years.

I'm not asking for discussions of price against forum rules, so no dealer links per se, but places to go and deals to seek would be useful.

If you have stuff you can only PM me, feel free to do that, too. I'm especially curious what the margins are for dealers because that tells me a lot about the "bargaining zone."

Mark

I think it should be fairly easy to get 10%, whether Sony likes it or not the 1080P DLP's will be stiff competition for the SXRD sets, the average joe will not be able to tell the difference between the 1080p DLP and the SXRD and when he can save $1000 by going with the DLP, he will. I've already seen this take place at Magnolia when the salesman was telling a customer not to waste his money on the Qualia, " I've seen the 73" Mitsubishi 1080P DLP and it has a better picture for half the price" that was the exact words out of his mouth. The SXRD's are going to be at a number of retail shops so there should be plenty of competition and options.

We are both saying the same thing:)I agree with gazelle that we are saying the same thing :)

Sorry... first day with a new brain. Thanks for clarifying. :o

I have a tendency to believe that there will be bargaining power on these sets. It is not costing Sony any money to set up new production lines since they are using existing ones. They also did not spend a cent on a new cabinet as they are using the 955 cabinet. There is also the fact that there will be a number of offerings for the 1080P and it doesn’t sound like any of the mfr’s have a 1080P connection.Keep in mind Sony has a big investment in SXRD technology development. Now is their opportunity to profit from that investment. 10 Billion Yen is about $89,230,000 to be spread of several product lines before it's time to develope something new.

In Kokubu Tec., approximately 10 Billion Yen* will be invested to construct a new production wing, leading to the expansion of clean-room area by 5,000 m2. This added production line will produce the LCD projection-use device "SXRD", and LCD driver ICs to be used in LCD TVs, where the market is very much expected to expand. Mass production is scheduled to start from Spring 2006.

Does anyone know if the PS3's games are 1080p or if they're 1080i and the hardware has the deinterlacer??


Sony Computer Entertainment Europe's Heavenly Sword (developed by 2nd party Ninja Theory) is being developed as a 1080p game....one of the team members claim he has heard of other 1080p PS3 games, though not all will be that high...

You lost me. I was responding to Tony's post which was a response to a post by Tele-TV. Tele-TV was making the same complaint that many others (including myself have made). We WANTED the SXRD coming out this fall to support 1080p HDMI. Since it doesn't look like it will, we are now HOPING they will introduce a new model in the spring that will support 1080p HDMI. It is logical to think that SONY will eventually support 1080p HDMI, the question is when. I don't think anyone here can state for sure what SONY's plans are. Hell, I still think there's a small chance we'll see 1080p HDMI this fall. Crutchfield is taking orders for a model that SONY hasn't even officially announced yet. Until the official specs come out, you can't be sure.

I agree completely with you, I'd love to see these sets support 1080p too, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it otherwise (I'm not a big gamer, we'll see about Blu Ray and the other formats). I have a connection inside Sony checking to see if he can get more info on 1080p -- however he too believes that its 1080i for now.

My point was that Sony isn't going to turn around and dump these sets in 6 months and introduce a new model. I'll admit the life cycle on these things is short, but it isn't that short. Also, XBR models usually hang around for a year or two; I don't recall an XBR model only being out for just a year (not that I can remember anyway). Therefore I think it's fair to say you won't see a 'revised' or 'new' SXRD model in early to mid 2006. At this time next year? Maybe. Again, I haven't seen a XBR model phased out in just a year (that I can think of).

I had thought I had it all settled in my mind. I was going to hold out and wait for the SED sets. The discussion in this thread has me salivating. Now my mind is unmade up.

Nobody has seen either of these technologies. Would anyone care to engage in a mythicalwise, sizewise, pricewise, qualitywise, or anyotherwise speculative discussion of these technologies?

Burt


Burt:

Best to try a separate thread on that one.

Just MHO.

Originally Posted by BenDover
no dealer, including Crutchfield, can get an order processed on these TVs until CEDIA. My dealer indicated that just yesterday he was told October was the release date.

Since CEDIA is before Crutchfields announcement of 9/19 expected arrival certainly doesn't prevent taking preorders to go into the Que. Crutchfield did this when the 1080P 37" Benq LCD FP debuted and they took orders for over a month - whether they met their deadline I'd have to backtrack and research further.

The only thing I don't like about Crutch is they rarely are competitive pricewise and they seem to be pricing these like a fair trade item much like the Qualia with no discount out of the gate. The SXRD is the one set that could get me to switch from the Samsung 6768 as it's taking forever to ship but I need to get over the horrendous silver speaker bar they are using from the XS model - does anyone really like that? Does anyone spending $5K rely on those speakers? I would guess most have their own HT SS and don't need that wasted ugly bar.

The PQ at a discount closer to the Samsung would sell me perhaps. I'd bet they are using the exact casing as the XS as a cost cutting margin. Hopefully someone can find someone discounting these at least 10%. Competition is heating up! :D

does anyone know if these sets will be available at the mass market stores (BB, CC, Sears) or am I going to have to go to something like a Tweeter or other specialty shop?

So I decided to get "off my butt" :) and do some "prep" work (like JASONcoleman is doing something by building his TV stand :) in preparation for the arrival of his SXRD. So I called Sony customer service to find about getting literature about their extended warranties on TV's (LCOS), and the person I spoke to said the SXRD should be posted the/their site Sony Style (SS) within a week or two.

Not sure if we will learn anything new BECAUSE here's the thing. He used the words 50" and 60" FLAT PANEL when mentioning the info was going to be posted on the site soon. The SXRD is not considered a flat panel because its a RPTV, right? Or there 50" & 60" FLAT PANEL TV's due out from Sony this year? Can someone please clarify this statement for me?



Thanks as ALWAYS - Matthew.

...

The SXRD is the one set that could get me to switch from the Samsung 6768 as it's taking forever to ship but I need to get over the horrendous silver speaker bar they are using from the XS model - does anyone really like that? Does anyone spending $5K rely on those speakers? I would guess most have their own HT SS and don't need that wasted ugly bar.

...

Call me crazy but I think the styling of the XS model is beautiful...fell in love with it when I saw it for the first time in person...maybe I wouldn't have liked it if I just saw it in a picture, but in person I found it very impressive. And, as I've said before, while I don't use the speakers on my Qualia 006, I still leave them attached because it adds to the Q's presence, IMO (and it is my media room so my opinion is the only one that counts there! :D).

Me personally, I would definitely pay the premium to get away from the shortcomings of the color wheel/wobulated DLP designs (that is just what I did when I decided not to wait on the Samsung sets and get the Q...but it cost me dearly ... I wish I had never seen SXRD in action!)

Not sure if we will learn anything new BECAUSE here's the thing. He used the words 50" and 60" FLAT PANEL when mentioning the info was going to be posted on the site soon.SonyStyle CSR = McJob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McJob)

I haven't been impressed whenever I've called.

SonyStyle CSR = McJob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McJob)

I haven't been impressed whenever I've called.

Thanks for the reply UNINVITED GUEST. Although I'm not touching 'McJob' so I don't offend anyone (LOL).

Sony Computer Entertainment Europe's Heavenly Sword (developed by 2nd party Ninja Theory) is being developed as a 1080p game....one of the team members claim he has heard of other 1080p PS3 games, though not all will be that high...

KLEE,

Thanks for mentioning a game that is being developed in 1080p (sorry I didn't thank-you when you originally posted this info) although this is not my type of game. I kind of put 1080p PS3 games "akin" ;) to the Expansion Pak (Ram Upgrade Cartridge) they made for the N64. Must have! Must have! 1080p INPUT for PS3 games. :D Oh well, I might just have to upgrade when next years model comes out. Only if it has a 1080p [I]60 INPUT though.
For games like Perfect Dark (follow-up to Golden Eye 007, and WAS rumored at one time for use on Banjo Tooie (the sequel to Banjo Kazooie).

Matthew - Sorry for sloppy formatting of paragraph.

Since CEDIA is before Crutchfields announcement of 9/19 expected arrival certainly doesn't prevent taking preorders to go into the Que. Crutchfield did this when the 1080P 37" Benq LCD FP debuted and they took orders for over a month - whether they met their deadline I'd have to backtrack and research further.

The only thing I don't like about Crutch is they rarely are competitive pricewise and they seem to be pricing these like a fair trade item much like the Qualia with no discount out of the gate. The SXRD is the one set that could get me to switch from the Samsung 6768 as it's taking forever to ship but I need to get over the horrendous silver speaker bar they are using from the XS model - does anyone really like that? Does anyone spending $5K rely on those speakers? I would guess most have their own HT SS and don't need that wasted ugly bar.

The PQ at a discount closer to the Samsung would sell me perhaps. I'd bet they are using the exact casing as the XS as a cost cutting margin. Hopefully someone can find someone discounting these at least 10%. Competition is heating up! :D

Wow West - you are willing to step down to 60 in.?

I like the style of the dumbo ears but would prefer to be able to take them off
without a hacksaw.

Not sure if we will learn anything new BECAUSE here's the thing. He used the words 50" and 60" FLAT PANEL when mentioning the info was going to be posted on the site soon. The SXRD is not considered a flat panel because its a RPTV, right? Or there 50" & 60" FLAT PANEL TV's due out from Sony this year? Can someone please clarify this statement for me

Thanks as ALWAYS - Matthew.

When I was at my local electronics store today trying to get info/a glimpse of an A10 set, the manager mentioned something about 50"/60" flat panels due out from Sony in the near future. I asked if he was referring to the SXRD sets, and he said no, LCD flat panels, not RP that would be 50 and 60 inches. He said this is the direction Sony will be going this year. I thought the guy was confused and was thinking of the SXRD sets, but maybe it was I who was the misinformed & confused one.

the micro display rp market will start phasing out smaller sets on up as the flat panels prices drop and sizes increase...in 2 years they'll be like crt rear projection is now.

Sorry about this, just a doubt, what is the difference or improvement bet. the 2nd generation SXRD & the 1st?
Is it the size, .61 vs .78? Does it means that the 2nd gen. Qualia 006 may comes with the .61 SXRD chip???
Could anyone tell the difference? & would it worth waiting for?? Anyone?
Thanks.

tonydeluce Wow West - you are willing to step down to 60 in.?
Not that I want to but an SXRD is not a bad alternative. They keep delaying the 6768 and even though I've been copying and pasting terrific reviews for the most part it wears on you the constant discussion of Sync, Lag or god knows what else we can blame on Samsung - how about Iraq - can we blame that on Samsung? Also, it's difficult breaking one's Sony loyalty - I bought Sony for over 20 years and never had a problem for at least 8 years after each purchase and so when you read these issues being posted it's kind of scarry. However, support from TVA and Samsung has proven itself worthy though based upon the feedback when it's needed. I'm like 90% certain I'll stick with the 6768 though - that is if they ever make it available for purchase.

One moment someone says the Samsung 1080P is the best they've seen and then a few days goes by and the nit picking starts and about 75 pages of it wears on you. There are a few very dedicated people doing quality evaluatons like yourself but many people come in and get the TV, brag about it coming and then we don't here anything about it unless something goes wrong. With numbers of sets that've shipped the past few weeks I expected we'd get more feedback from those new owners. I truly feel your a winner buyer either of these sets but Bigger is Better in HD. I'm sure there are more than a few thinking the same thing as they appear to be comiing to market a few months early. TVA where's those 6768's? :D

Sorry about this, just a doubt, what is the difference or improvement bet. the 2nd generation SXRD & the 1st?
Is it the size, .61 vs .78? Does it means that the 2nd gen. Qualia 006 may comes with the .61 SXRD chip???
Could anyone tell the difference? & would it worth waiting for?? Anyone?
Thanks.

The .61 SXRD has a big improvement in stated Contrast Ratio and should
save Sony considerable money when in volume production.

The current Qualia 06 and 04 have the older .78 chip. The new SXRDs will use the improved and lower cost .61 chip. Until an even better chip is fabricated, all
SXRD ( which includes Qualia ) will most likely use the .61 chip. Why? Better
performance at a cheaper cost to Sony.

When companies fabricate semiconductors and move to a smaller micron process
they typically pick up higher performance and lower cost. Bigger ( but smaller die), Faster, Cheaper is the mantra of the semi industry.

Burt:

Best to try a separate thread on that one.

Just MHO.

Probably a good idea. Thanks.

If anyone wants to follow it, I just set up a "SED vs. SXRD" thread in the Display Devices > Screens forum.

Burt

tonydeluce
Not that I want to but an SXRD is not a bad alternative. They keep delaying the 6768 and even though I've been copying and pasting terrific reviews for the most part it wears on you the constant discussion of Sync, Lag or god knows what else we can blame on Samsung - how about Iraq - can we blame that on Samsung? Also, it's difficult breaking one's Sony loyalty - I bought Sony for over 20 years and never had a problem for at least 8 years after each purchase and so when you read these issues being posted it's kind of scarry. However, support from TVA and Samsung has proven itself worthy though based upon the feedback when it's needed. I'm like 90% certain I'll stick with the 6768 though - that is if they ever make it available for purchase.

One moment someone says the Samsung 1080P is the best they've seen and then a few days goes by and the nit picking starts and about 75 pages of it wears on you. There are a few very dedicated people doing quality evaluatons like yourself but many people come in and get the TV, brag about it coming and then we don't here anything about it unless something goes wrong. With numbers of sets that've shipped the past few weeks I expected we'd get more feedback from those new owners. I truly feel your a winner buyer either of these sets but Bigger is Better in HD. I'm sure there are more than a few thinking the same thing as they appear to be comiing to market a few months early. TVA where's those 6768's? :D

Sony makes great products and I don't believe you would go wrong either way.
I was just surprised to see you consider a smaller screen size..

95% of RPTV owners use the built-in sound system on the TV.

No, I am not exaggerating.

Rogo, for one, certainly wouldn't be doing that, of course, but he and his fellow AVSers are the exception, not the rule.

Thanks Tony.
The fact is I'm bet. the Qualia 006 or wait for the new SXRD 60"?
I'm afraid of how the .61 chip will perfform, it may has some SDE.
Guess I'll need to wait at least CEDIA or till the new 60" owner's reviews starts to pop here.
It could be quite a savings.

I would like to wait so i can actually see the set before i buy, but i fear that when people finally do see it, the picture will be so good that lots of people will start buying them. Then it will be hard to find one because they will be on back order for so long. I think once the stores get there first couple of shipments, & i'm not in that bunch, I'll be playing the waiting game again. Does anyone else feel this way? I doubt if BB or sears will carry these models because those 2 stores (in my area anyway) don't carry XBR products. CC will have them. Is anyone else taking orders for these sets besides Crutchfield? I agree with Westa6969, crutch is not the most competive with it's pricing. When is the CEDIA show? How many of you will be purchasing the extended warranty?
Snoop

TurboBusa,

I spoke with one of the Sears salesmen this past Sunday and what he told me what that Sears doesn't carry the XBR line. He didn't know if it was a Sony restriction or what. Also don't know if the new Sony president might change that. Can't help but think that's costing both Sony and Sears sales.

I do think it strange that Crutchfield would have them and Sears wouldn't.

As to your concern that they'll be backordered out the gazoo, even with the Qualia 006, at first they were available, after 30 days they got back logged and then within 3 months everybody had them, even the discounters. Your best strategy might very well be plan on waiting 3 months for initial bugs (if any) to surface and for supply be strong enough that retailers are willing to discount them.

By the way, the picture quality is likely to be a slight improvement that many won't see. It'll take someone (like an AVSer) to see the difference. :D

Thanks Tony.
The fact is I'm bet. the Qualia 006 or wait for the new SXRD 60"?
I'm afraid of how the .61 chip will perfform, it may has some SDE.
Guess I'll need to wait at least CEDIA or till the new 60" owner's reviews starts to pop here.
It could be quite a savings.

Is SDE a possibility on the SXRD? One reason i want it is because i thought there would be NO sde. I would hate to buy one and then have sde at home. I know its possible to not see it in the store, but then you see it at home, just like the rainbows that many times are not seen in the store but people see them at home. I figured this set would be perfect, no sde, no rainbow, no burn-in, and Sony quality. Hopefully i am right.

Sony makes great products and I don't believe you would go wrong either way.
I was just surprised to see you consider a smaller screen size..


Tony, I'm not sure what improvements you know or believe the smaller chips to have, but if we are just talking size (I know cr is purportedly better) normally in the digital optics world, smaller is NOT better but worse; e.g., digital still/video cameras are better when the ccd/cmos chip used is larger...fwiw

I still have a hard time believing that Sony will be releasing a 4-5K tv that will not support the "Confirmed 1080p" of the PS3. There has to be some other issues. Like if the ps3 is 1080p how will it perform with all the existing tv's in the market, of which NONE support that resolution. It just doesn't make cense! There are very FEW people who will buy their kids a $300-500 game system and then run out and spend another 5-10K for a tv for them to play it on! There is going to be a compromise on the ps3 (like only outputting 1080i). The PS3 is too large a "CASH COW" for Sony to be messing with compatibility for the masses.

When is the expected release date for the PS3?

It also seems strange that the PS3 would be the only source for the 1080p material. Sony likes to be the father of new technology but trying to create a whole new market is very risky and for the most part a losing proposition.

It just makes you think!

I still have a hard time believing that Sony will be releasing a 4-5K tv that will not support the "Confirmed 1080p" of the PS3. There has to be some other issues. Like if the ps3 is 1080p how will it perform with all the existing tv's in the market, of which NONE support that resolution. It just doesn't make cense! There are very FEW people who will buy their kids a $300-500 game system and then run out and spend another 5-10K for a tv for them to play it on!You don't have to have a 1080p display to play the PS3.

Is SDE a possibility on the SXRD? One reason i want it is because i thought there would be NO sde. I would hate to buy one and then have sde at home. I know its possible to not see it in the store, but then you see it at home, just like the rainbows that many times are not seen in the store but people see them at home. I figured this set would be perfect, no sde, no rainbow, no burn-in, and Sony quality. Hopefully i am right.

I seriously doubt there will be any noticable SDE with a .61-inch 1080P. There is very little gap between the mirrors unlike transmissive HTPS LCD or even compared to DLP.

As for the rest of the image quality, we will have to wait and see, but I wouldn't worry about the SDE with any LCOS, particularly a 1080P LCOS.

Also, just because the system supports the resolution, doesn't mean the majority of games will offer it. For example, the PS2 "supports" 1080i, however, Gran Turismo 4 is the *only* game that plays in 1080i. The situation is similar for the Xbox: although most games support 480p, only a handful offer 720p support.

While obviously nobody knows how the percentages will break down with PS3 games that support 1080p before the console is actually released and games start coming out, I don't expect the majority (or even a significant minority) of games to offer 1080p support.

While it's definetly a bummer that the current generation of 1080p sets won't offer real 1080p inputs, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. Just enjoy your purchase, and by the time you're ready to buy again in 5 years all the input craziness will have settled down, the HD-DVD -vs- Blu-Ray format war will have been decided, there might actually be more 1080p content actually available, and the price curve will have continued working it's magic.

So nobody knows yet if these models have 1080p HDMI inputs?

Just a thought...

I'm guessing the TV's will only have 1080i inputs but I don't really care.
It's not like the TV will have to re-scale the images. It only has to
de-interlace them... which, quite frankly, doesn't seem like a big deal.
I would guess that this issue will not affect 99% of the TV buyers.

I'm also guessing that most of the people that are worried about it...
probably don't need to be.

Man, could someone start a 1080p HDMI input thread :D

Man, could someone start a 1080p HDMI input thread :Dx2 :D No Doubt!

Also, just because the system supports the resolution, doesn't mean the majority of games will offer it. For example, the PS2 "supports" 1080i, however, Gran Turismo 4 is the *only* game that plays in 1080i. The situation is similar for the Xbox: although most games support 480p, only a handful offer 720p support.

While obviously nobody knows how the percentages will break down with PS3 games that support 1080p before the console is actually released and games start coming out, I don't expect the majority (or even a significant minority) of games to offer 1080p support.

While it's definetly a bummer that the current generation of 1080p sets won't offer real 1080p inputs, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. Just enjoy your purchase, and by the time you're ready to buy again in 5 years all the input craziness will have settled down, the HD-DVD -vs- Blu-Ray format war will have been decided, there might actually be more 1080p content actually available, and the price curve will have continued working it's magic.

from what I've read, the majority of companies currently creating PS3 games are choosing 720p res instead of 1080p

95% of RPTV owners use the built-in sound system on the TV.

No, I am not exaggerating.

Rogo, for one, certainly wouldn't be doing that, of course, but he and his fellow AVSers are the exception, not the rule.

Rogo, do you think the average buyer that makes up your 95% considers side speakers a plus? Or are they just indifferent? Also, how big of a chunk of that 95% is concerned enough with sound quality that they would notice or care about the difference in sound quality between having speakers on the side versus on the bottom? I'm not talking about the Sony A10 solution, which I think compromises sound quality more than the average bottom speakers, but something like the Samsung DLPs, which supposedly have quite good sound.

Also, how many of those 95% also own a sound system, but don't use it all the time. That seems to be the most common case here among people who care about the tv speakers (admittedly people here aren't typical). In this case however, I would again think that most of these people would either not care about the quality much for a given program, which means they use the tv speakers and who cares if they are slightly worse, or they care about that particular program and use the receiver.

Of course all of this assumes that the large speakers on the side don't have some psychological effect on the average person buying the tv. Or that they aren't specifically pushed by salesmen as being better. I suspect that, while the above paragraphs may be true, the real issue is people going into a store and either seeing the huge speakers and thinking "wow those must sound great" or having the salesman say "well, this tv over here has side speakers with a further spread for superior imaging and a better soundstage blah blah..." As with so much in marketing, I guess it doesn't matter what is true, just what you can make people believe.

Well, that's my take on the side speaker thing. I would be curious to see what sales would be like for two identical tvs, one with side speakers and one with bottom speakers. I'm pretty sure I know what the split would be like on this forum, but I'm not so sure for the general public.

Tony, I'm not sure what improvements you know or believe the smaller chips to have, but if we are just talking size (I know cr is purportedly better) normally in the digital optics world, smaller is NOT better but worse; e.g., digital still/video cameras are better when the ccd/cmos chip used is larger...fwiw

Ben,

We are not just talking about size. The new SXRD is a new and improved design
on a smaller geometry process. The most notable improvement is of course the
much higher panel CR. The only potential issue is that they may be slightly
less light efficient but doesn't mean the set won't be as bright as the Qualia
because the Qualia does not appear to be optimzed for light output.

Along with the improvements in the chips themselves the new SXRDs sets will
have a dynamic iris further improving the CR. The rest depends upon the lens
and optics Sony chooses for the XBR line. And being part of the XBR brand
means we can expect very high quality in this regard.

This set will likely be better than the Qualia ( did I say that :-) It certainly
has the potential to be and we will soon all see for ourselves.

Best regards,

Tony