Rogo, do you think the average buyer that makes up your 95% considers side speakers a plus? Or are they just indifferent? Also, how big of a chunk of that 95% is concerned enough with sound quality that they would notice or care about the difference in sound quality between having speakers on the side versus on the bottom? I'm not talking about the Sony A10 solution, which I think compromises sound quality more than the average bottom speakers, but something like the Samsung DLPs, which supposedly have quite good sound.

Also, how many of those 95% also own a sound system, but don't use it all the time. That seems to be the most common case here among people who care about the tv speakers (admittedly people here aren't typical). In this case however, I would again think that most of these people would either not care about the quality much for a given program, which means they use the tv speakers and who cares if they are slightly worse, or they care about that particular program and use the receiver.

Of course all of this assumes that the large speakers on the side don't have some psychological effect on the average person buying the tv. Or that they aren't specifically pushed by salesmen as being better. I suspect that, while the above paragraphs may be true, the real issue is people going into a store and either seeing the huge speakers and thinking "wow those must sound great" or having the salesman say "well, this tv over here has side speakers with a further spread for superior imaging and a better soundstage blah blah..." As with so much in marketing, I guess it doesn't matter what is true, just what you can make people believe.

Well, that's my take on the side speaker thing. I would be curious to see what sales would be like for two identical tvs, one with side speakers and one with bottom speakers. I'm pretty sure I know what the split would be like on this forum, but I'm not so sure for the general public.

My take on the speaker thing is the wide design is probably ok for 60 inch plus tv's, since they are very unlikey to fit in exisiting entertainment cabinets. The 50 inch models should have been made to the new narrow A-10 design though, since that style will fit in many existing cabinets. I kinda hope the SXRD doesn't stand out as hugely superior to the A-10's, since the 50 inch A-10 will fit in my expensive armoire, and the 50 inch SXRD won't. If the SXRD blows me away though, I will probably get it in the 60 inch model, and rethink the furniture it sits on/in...there goes more money..lol. :)

Why wouldn't Sony have included removable speakers like the Sony big guy...I hate the look of side speakers...big mistake on Sonys engineering.

95% of RPTV owners use the built-in sound system on the TV.

No, I am not exaggerating.

Rogo, for one, certainly wouldn't be doing that, of course, but he and his fellow AVSers are the exception, not the rule.

Rogo is very correct on this. I talk with a lot of CE retailers, and they confirm this. 95% of DVD players are used like VCR's. They connect the audio to the TV, and have NO interconnection with stereo equipment. Consumers have a lot of trouble dealing with selecting inputs, etc...

If you knew that 95% of your customer base (even for some high end TV's - that's why cablecard is so important - no need to wire an STB to the set for HD) didn't have an audio connect between the DVD player and/or HDTV receiver to the stereo system, you would never build a TV without speakers attached. It's a requirement.

Thanks,
Mike

I wonder how many men dont want the surround-sound system touched by their wives, and have the tv set up to play with the speakers in the tv normally, and only use the surround-sound system for dvd playback? I do this!

Someone on the forum here suggested here a learning remote that would control everything at once, but i guess i have a mental block about my wifey using the Bose system!

I wonder how many men dont want the surround-sound system touched by their wives, and have the tv set up to play with the speakers in the tv normally, and only use the surround-sound system for dvd playback? I do this!

Someone on the forum here suggested here a learning remote that would control everything at once, but i guess i have a mental block about my wifey using the Bose system!


My daughter, now 9, has been using our surround system since she was 5. I simply programmed a learning remote. One button turns on the TV, surround system, selects the input, etc. Life is easy. :)

Good Morning Guys,

I'm going to change the "subject" :D right now. Has anyone of you guys bought a micro display TV and chose a warranty plan from another company even though it was more in price, and/or had a shorter term, because it offered a better "guarantee" against dead/stuck pixels?
I plan on buying my SXRD from Good Guys. If Sony has a better extended (pixel issue) warranty than the Good Guys, and I can buy the extended warranty from Sony even though I probably won't be buying my TV directly from Sony, I'm going to get the Sony warranty.

On another note :) , no more business as of today for Circuity City :mad: from me (USED to buy DVD's from them). Sorry for the rant.

Matthew

So nobody knows yet if these models have 1080p HDMI inputs?
If you read back even 2 pages, you'll see that these sets DEFINITELY DO NOT HAVE 1080P INPUTS! The owner's manual confirms this and that has been posted over and over.
Why wouldn't Sony have included removable speakers like the Sony big guy...I hate the look of side speakers...big mistake on Sonys engineering.
Because they're using the exact same cabinet as the XS series. Again, if you'd go back a couple of pages, you'd see this reiterated over and over (and again now).

Jason

Hello everyone,

I've been following this thread since day 1 and have been very interested in these sets. I became even more interested when my picture tube on my main 32" mits just went. What I have decided to do was purchase a used CRT 32" set (size limited to existing cabinet) with component video of course. The price I will be getting it at is around $150.00. I know there are other deals out there as well. It is merely a bandaid for the time being before I figure out what to do.

I love the new sets sight unseen. I HATE the dumbo ears (speakers). Personally, my wife would use the speakers 100% when watching TV. There are a lot of times I don't want to turn on the 200 watts per channel amp and processor as well. I could never convince her to go with the 60" because of how wide it is with the speakers. If the speakers however were underneath it wouldn't be a big deal. Why can't they just put the speakers underneath? If there is a second release of these sets with speakers above or below (better yet sony how about one speaker above and below) Then I will get the 60" assuming 1080p inputs of course.

Ken

If there is a second release of these sets with speakers above or below (better yet sony how about one speaker above and below) Then I will get the 60" assuming 1080p inputs of course.

Ken

Hi Ken,

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic :D or not about your statement about one speaker above and below. Or you saying 2 sets of speakers (2 sides?, 2 below?)? :D

Thanks - Matthew

If you read back even 2 pages, you'll see that these sets DEFINITELY DO NOT HAVE 1080P INPUTS! The owner's manual confirms this and that has been posted over and over.I skimmed back eight pages and don't see any links to a manual, and using the "Search this thread" feature, the only other reference this month to the word 'manual' is someone asking if there's a way to get the link early from sonystyle.com. Can you give a post number where the lack of 1080p was definitively confirmed, since I can't seem to find it? I've been reading this thread religiously for a while now, going through a good bit of it multiple times, so I'd find it strange if this information was out there and no one else seemed to notice it.

If you read back even 2 pages, you'll see that these sets DEFINITELY DO NOT HAVE 1080P INPUTS! The owner's manual confirms this and that has been posted over and over.

Because they're using the exact same cabinet as the XS series. Again, if you'd go back a couple of pages, you'd see this reiterated over and over (and again now).

Jason

Owner's Manual? Where? Did I miss something, because I haven't seen any posts or links to an owner's manual, and I'm sure that would be a high interest item on this thread if one is available.

As far as I can tell, the expected lack of 1080p HDMI inputs is based on the lack of any mention of that feature by Sony or Crutchfield. I have yet to see this be definitively confirmed anywhere.

Owner's Manual? Where? Did I miss something, because I haven't seen any posts or links to an owner's manual, and I'm sure that would be a high interest item on this thread if one is available.

As far as I can tell, the expected lack of 1080p HDMI inputs is based on the lack of any mention of that feature by Sony or Crutchfield. I have yet to see this be definitively confirmed anywhere.

Some members of this thread already have the owners manual - a link
has not been posted. Apparently the manual states there is no 1080p
over HDMI...

Owner's Manual?

D'oh! :eek:

Some members of this thread already have the owners manual - a link
has not been posted. Apparently the manual states there is no 1080p
over HDMI...

This is the first I've heard of it. Who has the manual? Where did they get it?

I kinda hope the SXRD doesn't stand out as hugely superior to the A-10's, since the 50 inch A-10 will fit in my expensive armoire, and the 50 inch SXRD won't. If the SXRD blows me away though, I will probably get it in the 60 inch model, and rethink the furniture it sits on/in...there goes more money..lol. :) Considering the premium that has to be paid in choosing the SXRD over the A10, it had better blow the A10 away. ;)

Why wouldn't Sony have included removable speakers like the Sony big guy...I hate the look of side speakers...big mistake on Sonys engineering.

I don't think it's a mistake at all but a way for Sony to get its SXRD tech out this fall instead of next spring. If they did not use a chassis that was already available they would have delivered at a later time and missed all the sales for this year that Samsung,Mits. and Jvc etc would have taken with their 1080p sets.
They will have another box out next year hopefully with removable speakers to give the best of both worlds and include a 1080p input to coincide with the ps3 introduction.

Roy

Hi Ken,

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic :D or not about your statement about one speaker above and below. Or you saying 2 sets of speakers (2 sides?, 2 below?)? :D

Thanks - Matthew

I was actually serious this time about the speakers. I meant to say 1 set of speakers on the bottom and one set on the top instead of the sides (or even removable speakers). I don't mind the extra height of the set since I already have 9 foot ceilings but width wise is limited.

Ken

Some members of this thread already have the owners manual - a link
has not been posted. Apparently the manual states there is no 1080p
over HDMI...
Fine deducting, my friend...in that somebody must have the owner's manual, and said manual clearly indicates that there is no 1080p over HDMI. Post 951 also says this.

Jason

Considering the premium that has to be paid in choosing the SXRD over the A10, it had better blow the A10 away. ;)

That is for sure! Question is will it be 10% better than the A-10, or OH WOW better......but the A-10 is pretty darn good from what I am reading. I plan to hit the Cedia show here in Indy next month, and hope that the SXRD is on display. I will report what I see if it is. If it's a knockout, I may as well get the checkbook out. A new even pricier TV, plus something new to set it on...ouch..lol

Post 951 also says this.When I saw that post (which is on page 32 of 43, a bit more than just 2 pages ago), I assumed it was in direct response to Skindig's comment about the highest supported computer resolution. Your statement might have been more widely considered if you had gone into more (or really, any) detail about where you were getting your information.

[SIZE=1]I was actually serious this time about the speakers. I meant to say 1 set of speakers on the bottom and one set on the top instead of the sides (or even removable speakers). I don't mind the extra height of the set since I already have 9 foot ceilings but width wise is limited.

Ken

See, but that is just it, what about those people that are "vertically challenged" in their space?

You can't make all of the people happy all of the time.

And as rogo points out, even if, and I am not necessarily sure that this is the case, the vast majority of AVSers disliked the side speakers (or at a minimum, the non-detachable side speakers...I for one do believe they should be detachable for flexibility, however, in this instance I can understand the compromise in order to get to market...after all, timing is everything), AVSers do not by any stretch of the imagination represent the average buyer, much less a majority of the average buyer.

Anyhow, this horse has been pummeled into the ground, much like the lack of 1080p HDMI inputs ;)

Guess I'll need to wait at least CEDIA or till the new 60" owner's reviews starts to pop here.

I wonder who's going to be the first one to post a review on the SXRD, here. My bet's on JASONcoleman. :D Sorry I'm just rambling. :)

Matthew

Speaking of the speakers :D ,for ME, I LOVE side/wing speakers. But the thing I don't like/hate is the gap between the frame of the TV and the speakers.

Speaking of the speakers :D ,for ME, I LOVE side/wing speakers. But the thing I don't like/hate is the gap between the frame of the TV and the speakers.

More proof that Sony can't win. :) I think the gap is stylish, and makes the TV look more like a piece of sculpture, instead of a silver box. But for space considerations, I am still in the ditch- the- side- speakers camp.

When I saw that post (which is on page 32 of 43, a bit more than just 2 pages ago), I assumed it was in direct response to Skindig's comment about the highest supported computer resolution. Your statement might have been more widely considered if you had gone into more (or really, any) detail about where you were getting your information.
The fact that there is no 1080p HDMI support comes directly from the manual. And quite frankly, I'm not really concerned how "widely considered" my statements are.

2 pages...2 days...it's all a blur to me anyways. :D

Jason

The fact that there is no 1080p HDMI support comes directly from the manual.I understand this now -- you just seemed to be somewhat frustrated that people were still asking "is it? isn't it?", and I think that could've been staved off if you'd said where you got your information (or even that this was a fact and not an assumption). It's great to finally have this confirmed, even if it's not the answer some of us had hoped for.

And quite frankly, I'm not really concerned how "widely considered" my statements are.I didn't mean that as any sort of insult. Sorry if it was taken the wrong way.

When I get my SXRD, its going right NEXT :D to my Philips 34" I have (SERIOUSLY :) ). My Philips will be MAINLY for SD (what I watch the most), and the SXRD for DVD's 1st, and then HD. Thanks for listening. :)

It's great to finally have this confirmed, even if it's not the answer some of us had hoped for.
Yeah, I hate to be the bearer of bad news...just don't shoot the messenger...any other cliches I can toss in...? How about, from the horse's mouth? :)

Jason

Personally I can live with side speakers if the overall package is pleasing. But I've seen the 60xs in person and is really is an eye sore that I can't see blending into any room. I hate the looks so much I'm actually considering waiting for the Hitachi LCOS sets in November after I went through 3 defective 60vx915's last winter before pulling the plug. Now that's hate!!

If Sony needed to recycle a package for time and cost reasons, then they really should have gone with the old XBR950 which actuall looks like a high end set.

Yeah, I hate to be the bearer of bad news...just don't shoot the messenger...any other cliches I can toss in...? How about, from the horse's mouth? :)

Jason

Jason. since you seem to be the big guru on this forum, do you have any idea just how superior the SXRD model might be vs. the current A-10 50 inch, and SX 60 inch models? What I mean is do you expect it to be somewhat better, or dramatically better? To my eye, a good plasma like a Pioneeer Elite is the gold standard in TV today. The LCD projection, while nice, is not in the same league. (I own a Sony GWIII, so LCD lovers don't take offense) If SXRD can get even close to a top line plasma for PQ, count me in! Thanks!

Ideally, these sets would be in spankin' new cases (not the same old XS cases...not that I dislike the look of the XS), they'd have 1080p inputs, and they'd have detachable side speakers. Some people like that look, and some people would rather not use the on-board speakers. I wish these sets were more closely aligned with the Qualia 006, but for less than half of the price and with availability hopefully within 4 or 5 weeks, I'll take the flawed feature set. I've been waiting for a new TV for almost 2 years and come hell or high water (another cliche for those that are keeping track :) ), I'm getting the 60" SXRD (at a discount, too!). Speculation that there will be a second wave of sets out sometime next year is just speculation at this point, and I'm not willing to put off 6+ months of enjoyment for the hopes of the next better thing (assuming it arrives at all). I'm banking on the SXRDs having nearly the best (if not THE BEST) PQ of any set in its price range, and I'll take the good with the bad (and the ugly speakers) and enjoy it sooner than later.

Jason

Yeah, I hate to be the bearer of bad news...just don't shoot the messenger...any other cliches I can toss in...? How about, from the horse's mouth? :)

Jason

I think the aphorism you're looking for is "Don't shoot a dead horse in the mouth." :) Thanks for clarifying your source on post #951 -- I saw it, but had no idea where the information was coming from or on what authority. Ah well. Nice to have that settled, anyway.

Jason. since you seem to be the big guru on this forum, do you have any idea just how superior the SXRD model might be vs. the current A-10 50 inch, and SX 60 inch models? What I mean is do you expect it to be somewhat better, or dramatically better? To my eye, a good plasma like a Pioneeer Elite is the gold standard in TV today. The LCD projection, while nice, is not in the same league. (I own a Sony GWIII, so LCD lovers don't take offense) If SXRD can get even close to a top line plasma for PQ, count me in! Thanks!
Alan,

I've seen the Qualia and I've seen plenty of plasmas, including the Pio Elites, but never side by side. I was very impressed with the PQ of the Qualia, and dumbfounded by its sheer size, but it didn't make me want to hurl with excitement. Don't get me wrong, I think it's one of the best pictures available, but after so much talk and hype and expectation, it wasn't the best I have seen. I agree that the Pio Elite plasmas have a spectacular picture...bright and vibrant and very 3-dimensional. To my eyes, I prefer the picture of the plasma, but for the extra 10" of picture and for substantially less money than the comparably sized Pio Elite, I'm going for the 60" SXRD. My name is already on the first unit that hits my dealer's doorstep. As far as comparing between the SXRD and the A10s, with the SXRDs using the Qualia-based technology and the A10s using 3LCD ("that's new, right? :D ), I'm certain that the SXRD picture will be significantly better. Additionally, the A10s are only available in 42" and 50", so they were never in the running for me.

BTW, I'm no guru...I'm just off for the summer and have a lot of time on my hands! :D

Jason

Jason, since you have the manual what resolutions will these models alow through the pc input

Alan,

I've seen the Qualia and I've seen plenty of plasmas, including the Pio Elites, but never side by side. I was very impressed with the PQ of the Qualia, and dumbfounded by its sheer size, but it didn't make me want to hurl with excitement. Don't get me wrong, I think it's one of the best pictures available, but after so much talk and hype and expectation, it wasn't the best I have seen. I agree that the Pio Elite plasmas have a spectacular picture...bright and vibrant and very 3-dimensional. To my eyes, I prefer the picture of the plasma, but for the extra 10" of picture and for substantially less money than the comparably sized Pio Elite, I'm going for the 60" SXRD. My name is already on the first unit that hits my dealer's doorstep. As far as comparing between the SXRD and the A10s, with the SXRDs using the Qualia-based technology and the A10s using 3LCD ("that's new, right? :D ), I'm certain that the SXRD picture will be significantly better. Additionally, the A10s are only available in 42" and 50", so they were never in the running for me.

BTW, I'm no guru...I'm just off for the summer and have a lot of time on my hands! :D

Jason


I saw the Qualia at Abt Electronics in Chicagoland last weekend. It didn't look at all spectacular, BUT the show they had on didn't look great on ANY TV in the store, so it was probably a poor test. I do agree that plasmas are tops in PQ, but they are out-of-reach pricewise once the size goes over 50. I will keep my fingers crossed that the SXRD can live up to the hype. If it doesn't I will just get a 50 inch A-10, and keep the furniture I have now..lol. If I am drooling, I will be out at least 6 grand for the new 60 inch SXRD and something to hold it. :)

Hmm, I always thought it was "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth." :)
Makes no more sense than shooting a dead horse in the mouth though. ;)
I'm pretty sure the whole, "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" expression is based on the fact that you can tell a horse's age by how worn it's teeth are. I used to think it had something to do with the Trojan Horse, but nothing that exciting.

BTW, I like the "shooting a dead horse in the mouth." It certainly applies...:)

Jason

Hmm, I always thought it was "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth." :)


Let's mix some more metaphors. I think all this talk of dumbo ears is Flogging a dead horse in the mouth.

Alan,

I've seen the Qualia and I've seen plenty of plasmas, As far as comparing between the SXRD and the A10s, with the SXRDs using the Qualia-based technology .... snip
Jason

Isn't it just the SXRD chip technology that's migrating to the XBRs. Qualia is still the upgrade model. Well, that's what they're telling us. I wouldn't be surprised if they look the same. :rolleyes:

More proof that Sony can't win. :) I think the gap is stylish, and makes the TV look more like a piece of sculpture, instead of a silver box. But for space considerations, I am still in the ditch- the- side- speakers camp.
That "stylish" gap just means more tricky spots for me to dust, which will be abnormally often considering how quickly dust accumulates in my living room. :(

I see on the Crutchfield site --the photos for the new SXRD 60 show the new dynamic iris both open and closed --fwiw

Roy

Isn't it just the SXRD chip technology that's migrating to the XBRs. Qualia is still the upgrade model. Well, that's what they're telling us. I wouldn't be surprised if they look the same. :rolleyes:
I'm not suggesting that the new sets will look better than the Qualia...? For sure, the 006 is still at the top of the Sony heap...my only point was that the SXRD technology looks a heck of a lot better to me than 3LCD (SDE being the real dealbreaker). Maybe I'm misreading your post...?

Jason

Jason, since you have the manual what resolutions will these models alow through the pc input
Here's a chart...

Jason

I'm not suggesting that the new sets will look better than the Qualia...? For sure, the 006 is still at the top of the Sony heap...my only point was that the SXRD technology looks a heck of a lot better to me than 3LCD (SDE being the real dealbreaker). Maybe I'm misreading your post...?

Jason


I just got the impression that you were saying that the SXRD sets will have all the Qualia technology (which, by the way, they might ;-)

If I were a betting person, I'd say that a 60" XBR could very well look better than the 70" Qualia if for no other reason than that extra step in enlarging an image would make the 60" sharper and brighter. That's basically my uninformed opinion.

The fact that there is no 1080p HDMI support comes directly from the manual. And quite frankly, I'm not really concerned how "widely considered" my statements are.

2 pages...2 days...it's all a blur to me anyways. :D

Jason

OK, so you've had the manual for these sets since 8-5 and you're just now letting the rest of us in on this? Why so coy? More importantly, where did you manage to get a manual from?

that sucks no 1920 x 1080 oh well I guess 1280 x 768 aint bad.

I just wonder why it can't do any higher than 1280 x 1024.

Well hopyfully we can get it working through hdmi

More importantly, where did you manage to get a manual from?I think Artwood. Isn't he an industry guy? I may be wrong.

I think Artwood. Isn't he an industry guy? I may be wrong.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If you read back even 2 pages, you'll see that these sets DEFINITELY DO NOT HAVE 1080P INPUTS! The owner's manual confirms this and that has been posted over and over.

Because they're using the exact same cabinet as the XS series. Again, if you'd go back a couple of pages, you'd see this reiterated over and over (and again now).

JasonThanks...Weird that a new model looks the same as a older model...must be a cost factor thing or they want to rush these SXRD's to the market. :confused:

that sucks no 1920 x 1080 oh well I guess 1280 x 768 aint bad.

I just wonder why it can't do any higher than 1280 x 1024.

Well hopyfully we can get it working through hdmi

This is really frig'in weird. No 1920x1080p over VGA?

I think Artwood. Isn't he an industry guy? I may be wrong.

What, did he forgive him for inventing the "Fartwood" designation?

I'm skeptical of any cutting and pasting of an alleged manual. The only way to have credibility on the Internet is to put the cards on the table. Post the original document in its entirety, not snippets.

credibility on the InternetThere is no such thing. ;)

I'm not sure if this is off topic but I have a friend who saw the Samsing 1080P running a 1080i HD loop and next to it was a 720P Samsung and he couldn't distinguish between the PQ of the two sets. So if the new Sony has the same look as the 720P sets it wouldn't make sense to upgrade and pay a premium until HD DVD is released and we see where that is going. Broadcasters are looking to save bandwidth so they probably will not adopt 1080P but who knows.

I use my HD Tivo on a 1080p projector. The image is stunning even though the resolution on dtv is only 1280x1080 as compared to a 720p RPTV or 720p projector. There is a very big quality jump going to a 1080 display.

You must have a great scaler and how much was your projector? Taking a 720P feed or 1080i and scaling up might not produce any extra detail and could actually soften the picture. I hope its better but I just would want to see this set in action before I plunked down my dollars.

Some members of this thread already have the owners manual - a link
has not been posted. Apparently the manual states there is no 1080p
over HDMI...

I too just confirmed from a very reputable contact at Sony that these sets will not accept a 1080p signal via the Component & HDMI inputs.....so there everyone, you have the manual and a actual conversation..... :D

Still won't stop me from buying one though.

Is anyone here attending CEDIA?

I'm not sure if this is off topic but I have a friend who saw the Samsing 1080P running a 1080i HD loop and next to it was a 720P Samsung and he couldn't distinguish between the PQ of the two sets. So if the new Sony has the same look as the 720P sets it wouldn't make sense to upgrade and pay a premium until HD DVD is released and we see where that is going. Broadcasters are looking to save bandwidth so they probably will not adopt 1080P but who knows.

To even the semi-trained eye, the difference between LCD and SXRD will be more noticeable than the difference between 720P and 1080P DLP. Because the pixel structure on current LCD sets is readily visible (AKA Screen Door Effect, AKA SDE) and it is virtually indistinguishable on SXRD, the picture will immediately look smoother and more natural. Add to that the 1080p resolution, and you get the best of both worlds-- a smooth yet detailed picture. In my opinion, the other advantage of any Sony set (even existing LCD) over DLP is that the color looks more accurate, vibrant, and saturated. And lastly, as has been said many times before, if you see the rainbows that are produced as a byproduct of the spinning color wheel used in DLP sets, then it doesn't matter how high the resolution is.

Of course in the end, you like what you like and if 720P DLP or LCD looks good to you, then no need to spend the extra $$ on SXRD. And I'm not just saying that. It's easy to get caught up in the never ending cycle of trying "keep up with the Jones's" or to feel you need to have the more expensive model because it is supposed to be better. Trust your eyes, and spend what you can afford.

OK, so some advice is easier to give than to follow, as I really shouldn't be buying a $5K TV right now. :rolleyes:

What does your very reputable contact at Sony say about these SXRD TVs accepting DD5.1 over HDMI and passing it through to the digital output?

I would speculate that it is highly doubtful...why would one want this anyhow as opposed to just sending it straight to your receiver?

I too just confirmed from a very reputable contact at Sony that these sets will not accept a 1080p signal via the Component & HDMI inputs.....so there everyone, you have the manual and a actual conversation..... :D

Still won't stop me from buying one though.

I had some Sony training today. The trainer is not the brightest star in the sky, but he says that PS-3 in Japan outputs at 1080i not 1080p. He said the same about Blue Ray. Where did the info come from that says new Sony games will be 1080p?

The trainer also said that the 70" Qualia is so expensive becuase of the sophistication of the screen. He claimed it was expensive to design a screen that would extend the picture quality to the corners. I think he quoted 2 layers of glass in it, which would explain why it is so heavy. Sounds like a good digital camera: too many people buy based on the number of megapixels and the features. They forget, or don't know, how much the lense and electonics effect the picture quality.

I am looking forward to seeing these sets, probably in early October. Lew

Where did the info come from that says new Sony games will be 1080p?Sony Press Release:To match the accelerating convergence of digital consumer electronics and computer technology, PS3 supports high quality display in resolution of 1080p(*) as standard, which is far superior to 720p/1080i. (http://www.us.playstation.com/PressReleases.aspx?id=279)

(*)1080p/720p/1080i: "p" stands for progressive scan method, "i" stands for interlace method. 1080p is the highest resolution within the HD standard.

I had some Sony training today. The trainer is not the brightest star in the sky, but he says that PS-3 in Japan outputs at 1080i not 1080p. He said the same about Blue Ray. Where did the info come from that says new Sony games will be 1080p?

The trainer also said that the 70" Qualia is so expensive becuase of the sophistication of the screen. He claimed it was expensive to design a screen that would extend the picture quality to the corners. I think he quoted 2 layers of glass in it, which would explain why it is so heavy. Sounds like a good digital camera: too many people buy based on the number of megapixels and the features. They forget, or don't know, how much the lense and electonics effect the picture quality.

I am looking forward to seeing these sets, probably in early October. Lew

The current LCD based XBR Grand Wegas which appear to be the "host"
for the new SXRD chips do an outstanding job of uniform brightness
on the screen.

The current LCD based XBR Grand Wegas which appear to be the "host"
for the new SXRD chips do an outstanding job of uniform brightness
on the screen.
The "host" of the new SXRD chips are the current XS line... not the former XBR line.

(of course, the new SXRD sets have "xbr" in their model name.)

-Terry

What does your very reputable contact at Sony say about these SXRD TVs accepting DD5.1 over HDMI and passing it through to the digital output?

I have it from a very good source :-)

*No* 5.1 over HDMI through the set to the digital output.

There is also no good reason why anyone would want to do this.

The only time you need 5.1 audio output from the TV is if a TV is using a
cable card and this would mean you are feeding coax to the TV.

The only time you need 5.1 audio output from the TV is if a TV is using a
cable card and this would mean you are feeding coax to the TV.So if I'm using a cable card I should be able to use the TV's optical out to my 5.1 receiver?

So if I'm using a cable card I should be able to use the TV's optical out to my 5.1 receiver?

Definitely - otherwise it kind of makes the a cable card practically useless with a HD TV
when HD broadcast default sound is DD 5.1...

Why do you think someone would put an optical out on a TV? For stereo?

I had some Sony training today. The trainer is not the brightest star in the sky, but he says that PS-3 in Japan outputs at 1080i not 1080p. He said the same about Blue Ray. Where did the info come from that says new Sony games will be 1080p?


At E3, Sony had said that the PS3 would support 1080P, but I don't believe they said anything about games necessarily supporting 1080P. From what I understand, Sony isn't even telling developers that the games even have to be in 720P. I think the whole bragging about 1080P thing was to counter Microsoft who said that the XBOX 360 games would run at a minimum of 720P (You know... "Look ours is better because it runs at 1080P!!). From what I understand, it is unlikely there will be many 1080P titles since it isn't likely the PS3 or XBOX 360 would have the horsepower to run a game at that resolution at 60fps. Nevermind the fact that 99.9% of the owners lucky enough to have an HDTV can't even accept an input or run at that resolution. Game console manufacturers like Sony have promised the world before when they launched the PS1 and PS2 and many things never happened. I don't think 1080P gaming will be a reality until the generation after the PS3 and XBOX 360. That's fine with me, as 720P gaming is a huge step as it is.

The more I think about it, the more I think I will more than likely go for the 60" SXRD instead of waiting for a set with 1080P input. I have put off upgrading for years, so long in fact that I am still running a 27" Sony Trinitron (that is 15 years old) and a Pioneer D2S receiver that only does Dolby Pro Logic (no DD even!). :-)

At E3 Sony had said that the PS3 would support 1080P, but I don't believe they said anything about games necessarily supporting 1080P. From what I understand Sony isn't even telling developers that the games even have to be in 720P. I think the whole bragging about 1080P thing was to counter Microsoft who said that the XBOX 360 games would run at a minimum of 720P (You know... "Look ours is better because it runs at 1080P!!). From what I understand it is unlikely there will be many 1080P titles since it isn't likely the PS3 or XBOX 360 would have the horsepower to run a game at that resolution at 60fps. Nevermind the fact that 99.9% of the owners lucky enough to have an HDTV can't even accept an input or run at that resolution. Game console manufacturers like Sony have promised the world before when they launched the PS1 and PS2 and many things never happened. I don't think 1080P gaming will be a reality until the generation after the PS3 and XBOX 360. That's fine with me, as 720P gaming is a huge step as it is.

I am sure at launch there will be at least a couple games but it could take
years for much PS3 1080p material to become available. Most of us will
be upgrading again by then...

what

Sony Press Release:To match the accelerating convergence of digital consumer electronics and computer technology, PS3 supports high quality display in resolution of 1080p(*) as standard, which is far superior to 720p/1080i. (http://www.us.playstation.com/PressReleases.aspx?id=279)

(*)1080p/720p/1080i: "p" stands for progressive scan method, "i" stands for interlace method. 1080p is the highest resolution within the HD standard.

Thanks for this link. I wish I had had this info before training. I am not a gamer, so I learn what I know about games from you guys. This trainer just doesn't know his stuff, but I pobably was a thorn in his side as it was.

I do believe him about the construction of the Qualia screen though, as it was coming straight from a Sony Powerpoint presentation. He wasn't just makin things up to get us off his back. Lew

So if I'm using a cable card I should be able to use the TV's optical out to my 5.1 receiver?

You will also have to run a set of analog cables as the TV does not convert the analog stations to digital sound. Most receivers will automatically switch between the two sources if they are assigned to the same input. Lew

Correct me if I am wrong.
example:
Source material is 1920X1080p going into the TV. The TV has to break the signal down to interlaced digitally then put it back together again to be applied to the screen as progressive. What is the problem? Isn't the most important thing here that the TV can deliver true 1920 lines? I cant see where you are losing any information. Even if you have two sets side by side one with 1080p input next to a 1080i input both displaying 1080p I do not think anyone could point out which one accepts 1080p.

I have it from a very good source :-)

*No* 5.1 over HDMI through the set to the digital output.

There is also no good reason why anyone would want to do this.

The only time you need 5.1 audio output from the TV is if a TV is using a
cable card and this would mean you are feeding coax to the TV.

Yup, that's what I heard too. I agree, I don't see this as a problem as any sources I have already have their own Coax/Optical outputs for DD/DTS processing.

I am excited by this TV! :D The other thing my source said was that the pixel pitch is tighter this year at 7 microns. I'm not sure was the previous spec was, or what the Q's specifications were.

Now if only our sad broadcast systems would upgrade their signals! :mad:

Chris

Correct me if I am wrong.
example:
Source material is 1920X1080p going into the TV. The TV has to break the signal down to interlaced digitally then put it back together again to be applied to the screen as progressive. What is the problem? Isn't the most important thing here that the TV can deliver true 1920 lines? I cant see where you are losing any information. Even if you have two sets side by side one with 1080p input next to a 1080i input both displaying 1080p I do not think anyone could point out which one accepts 1080p.

The extra processing step can produce artifacts to the picture and therefore degrades picture quality vs if it could accept the native resolution of 1080p (no additional processing/deinterlacing would be required).

Correct me if I am wrong.
example:
Source material is 1920X1080p going into the TV. The TV has to break the signal down to interlaced digitally then put it back together again to be applied to the screen as progressive. What is the problem? Isn't the most important thing here that the TV can deliver true 1920 lines? I cant see where you are losing any information. Even if you have two sets side by side one with 1080p input next to a 1080i input both displaying 1080p I do not think anyone could point out which one accepts 1080p.


The extra processing will always degrade PQ somewhat and create artifacts. The set that can accept a 1080P Signal will always have the better PQ....

Correct me if I am wrong.
example:
Source material is 1920X1080p going into the TV. The TV has to break the signal down to interlaced digitally then put it back together again to be applied to the screen as progressive. What is the problem? Isn't the most important thing here that the TV can deliver true 1920 lines? I cant see where you are losing any information. Even if you have two sets side by side one with 1080p input next to a 1080i input both displaying 1080p I do not think anyone could point out which one accepts 1080p.

Depends on a couple of things. For example, if the source was recorded or
mastered in 1080p30fps and then broadcast or stored at 1080i60fps and then
received on a 1080i input and properly de-interlaced there will be *no* difference
in PQ then if 1080p30fps were received on a 1080p input.

But if someone would hook up a PS3 game that was created
in 1080p60fps and for which PS3 outputs 1080p60fps
and also outputs 1080i60fps then the TV with the 1080p60fps input
would have a much better PQ since there is twice as many full frames
available to display then with the 1080i input.

At this point in time only future PS3 gamers should worry about this.

Especially since there is no 1080p broadcast and since film is
mastered at 1080p24fps and HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will both
provide 1080i outputs which will be de-interlaced similiar to the
scenario in the first paragraph with the addition of 3:2 pulldown.

I just got the impression that you were saying that the SXRD sets will have all the Qualia technology (which, by the way, they might ;-)

If I were a betting person, I'd say that a 60" XBR could very well look better than the 70" Qualia if for no other reason than that extra step in enlarging an image would make the 60" sharper and brighter. That's basically my uninformed opinion.
We're on the same page...:) I, too, think that the 60" might look punchier and brighter than the 70", but we haven't seen one, so that's just a (hopeful) guess. Heck, if it looked even almost as good as the Qualia picture, I'd be happy.
I'm skeptical of any cutting and pasting of an alleged manual. The only way to have credibility on the Internet is to put the cards on the table. Post the original document in its entirety, not snippets.
Any you guys call ME a conspiracy theorist! :D:D:D C'mon c.kingsley...all I want to do is to prove it to you.

Jason

I think Artwood. Isn't he an industry guy? I may be wrong.
How'd you know? And he accuses all of us of being plants! Hah! He's the real insider...just PM him for it...:D

Jason

Could someone upload the manual to megaupload (dot) com

Stop holding out guys....

I will give you

A big

Fat

Cookie

Yes

I will

Ship

You

A Cookie *****


**** May not ship a cookie due to cookie tax.

Is anyone here attending CEDIA?

Yes.

Rogo is very correct on this.


Proof that everything has to happen at least once. ;)

Heard on another thread that 1080p-capable HDMI chipsets were delivered relatively recently.

So maybe next year, they will revise these models with those chipsets?

Plus there is no 1080p source until some time next year. Maybe the PS3 will have 1080p games in its first year. Maybe it will output 1080p BD-Video.

Seems like these units are about potential as much as present usability.

Rogo, do you think the average buyer that makes up your 95% considers side speakers a plus? Or are they just indifferent? Also, how big of a chunk of that 95% is concerned enough with sound quality that they would notice or care about the difference in sound quality between having speakers on the side versus on the bottom?

Also, how many of those 95% also own a sound system, but don't use it all the time. That seems to be the most common case here among people who care about the tv speakers (admittedly people here aren't typical). In this case however, I would again think that most of these people woul


Well, that's my take on the side speaker thing. I would be curious to see what sales would be like for two identical tvs, one with side speakers and one with bottom speakers. I'm pretty sure I know what the split would be like on this forum, but I'm not so sure for the general public.

It's not "my 95%" it's pretty much the right figure. My guess is a signficant plurality of people ain't thinking, "Boy side speakers, yummers" but are worried "Will this fit in my cabinet."

To that end, I think side speakers are a mistake and I'd prefer bottom speakers, like I have on my Sharp LCD (Sharp sells two versions, you now know which one I bought).

I have zero percent interest (no, not financing) in speakers on my TV. Normally, I don't ever use them. We have used them since moving because the surround sound is not set up. Once I fix that, I'll never use the TV speaker again. It's easier for me to always turn on the receiver than to make a decision about whether the viewing warrants it. In fact, even though we watch next to no TV in summer, I'm fixing it this weekend because this post is reminding me how annoying the TV speakers are.

Bottom speakers are generally an inferior solution. They are not going to provide enough stereo separation and they'll never provide a multi-channel audio experience unless things like the Yamaha sound projection technology get very cheap soon.

I would like the SXRD with no speakers. It won't be for sale that way. If I buy one, I will make do.

I am very sure Sony isn’t recycling the XS955 cabinet. It is a new one to compliment the existing Quaila 006, just like the XS complimented the Quaila 006 last year. I have looked very closely and the XBR1 is quite different. The new cabinet design is smaller. 66 X 393/4 X 201/4 the XS is 663/8 X 395/8 X 201/4. The lamp replacement for the XBR1 has been moved to the back where as the XS is in the front. A/V inputs for the XBR1 are in the lower left side facing where as the XS is in the middle. The pedestal is a little taller on the XBR1 to the XS955. The memory stick viewer looks like it has been moved in with the A/V and 1394 inputs. It looks like to me that Sony has released a new TV to complement its flag ship model 006. Again they look the same except the XBR1 has permanent speakers. I'm sure by having the speakers fixed cut production costs and allows them to sell it lower.

Could someone upload the manual to megaupload (dot) com
How about instead you cultivate a professional relationship with a local dealer over a few years and have him/her get it for you? You know, you might spend a bit more money than if buying on the internet, but those B&M's have their advantage...real customer service being a biggie! :D

I'm sure somebody will upload it...that site (megaupload) seems like a real winner! :rolleyes:

Coy my ass! ;)

Jason

OK, so you've had the manual for these sets since 8-5 and you're just now letting the rest of us in on this? Why so coy? More importantly, where did you manage to get a manual from?
Well, maybe if you allowed PMs to be sent to you, you wouldn't have your undies in such a bunch...:D

Jason

Well, maybe if you allowed PMs to be sent to you, you wouldn't have your undies in such a bunch...:D

JasonNot much worse than bunched undies :eek:

No that really gets quite uncomfortable...chafing and such. :eek:

So are you all signed up for a 60" my friend? Got your killer deal lined up?

BTW, I spoke (again) with my dealer today (damn I feel like a junkie) and there's STILL no word on the exact date of availability on these sets. He's pretty confident they'll match Crutchfield's date, but nothing concrete yet. He also hadn't heard anything about a possible second wave of SXRD sets coming out with all the goodies we're bitching about here (1080P inputs, removable speakers, et al). That's not to indicate that it's not going to happen, only that he hadn't heard anything about it.

Jason

No that really gets quite uncomfortable...chafing and such. :eek:

So are you all signed up for a 60" my friend? Got your killer deal lined up?

BTW, I spoke (again) with my dealer today (damn I feel like a junkie) and there's STILL no word on the exact date of availability on these sets. He's pretty confident they'll match Crutchfield's date, but nothing concrete yet. He also hadn't heard anything about a possible second wave of SXRD sets coming out with all the goodies we're bitching about here (1080P inputs, removable speakers, et al). That's not to indicate that it's not going to happen, only that he hadn't heard anything about it.

Jason

With all that goes into launching a set I would be very surprised to see a new
SXRD XBR 50in or 60 in. within a year.

With all that goes into launching a set I would be very surprised to see a new
SXRD XBR 50in or 60 in. within a year.

I agree.

Not to mention that they would lose the allegiance of a hell of a lot of early adopters (myself included), though that hasn't stopped many corporations in the past. It would certainly piss a sh'load of people off...

Jason

But I'd be thrilled to see a 70" set with all the bells and whistles come down the pipeline sometime next year...again, I'm being bludgeoned to death by my wife. :D

Jason

But I'd be thrilled to see a 70" set with all the bells and whistles come down the pipeline sometime next year...again, I'm being bludgeoned to death by my wife. :D

Jason

Ah yes, a 70 in. SXRD XBR or Qualia with real blacks and super high CR -
sign me up!

No that really gets quite uncomfortable...chafing and such. :eek:

So are you all signed up for a 60" my friend? Got your killer deal lined up?

BTW, I spoke (again) with my dealer today (damn I feel like a junkie) and there's STILL no word on the exact date of availability on these sets. He's pretty confident they'll match Crutchfield's date, but nothing concrete yet. He also hadn't heard anything about a possible second wave of SXRD sets coming out with all the goodies we're bitching about here (1080P inputs, removable speakers, et al). That's not to indicate that it's not going to happen, only that he hadn't heard anything about it.

JasonYep, my deals done. It's all over but the waiting. 60" bliss, SXRD style. My wife is happy there's finally 'something/anything' on the way.

I'll bet Rogo gets to take one home from CEDIA. He'll have one before all of us monkeys.

Fwiw, and confirming what others have already stated, the specification page of the SXRD manual makes it clear that there is no 1080p video over HDMI. Plus, audio over HDMI is two channel linear PCM (not compatible with compressed sound such as AC-3 and DTS). So no DD5.1 over HDMI.One thing I have not seen are specs for what resolution and frame rate of video can be processed throught the i.Link connection.

Jason
I agree with Tony, you may be the 1st one to post a review for the SXRD 60' here, so just to speculate while we wait & since I have not had a chance to see a Q.006 in real action (I've seen it in my dreams & once I have not seen a 1080p image either, guest my dreams were on 720p like my Marantz 12s2).
Would you think that the SXRD 60" PQ could match the Q.006 PQ?? HD?/SD?
Even with the 60" .61 SXRD chip & the Q.006 optics/screen/BQ?
I know is a bit vague, but is just YHO.
Anyone else?
Thanks

All its says is 3 X 4-pin S400 i.Link terminal.So will my Blu-Ray player be able to connect to the i.Link port and push 1080p/24 into my KDS-R60XBR1?

Here's some info from Apple Computer about H.264 encoding...The New Industry Standard
Already ratified as part of the MPEG-4 standard — MPEG-4 Part 10 — and the ITU-T’s latest video-conferencing standard, H.264 is now mandatory for the HD-DVD and Blu-ray specifications (the two formats for high-definition DVDs) and ratified in the latest versions of the DVB (Digital Video Broadcasters) and 3GPP (3rd Generation Partnership Project) standards. Numerous broadcast, cable, videoconferencing and consumer electronics companies consider H.264 the video codec of choice for their new products and services. This adoption by a wide variety of open standards means that any company in the world can create devices — mobile phones, set-top boxes, DVD players and more — that will work seamlessly with QuickTime 7.

Ah yes, a 70 in. SXRD XBR or Qualia with real blacks and super high CR - sign me up!
Ahh...am I dreaming or could this be reality? We'll keep our fingers crossed for the latter!

Jason

Here is the SXRD manual for those of you that want to download it.....
Thank you for posting this...just don't tell them where you got it! ;)

Jason

The person (who shall remain nameless) that I got it from said it would be OK to upload it. ;)Artwood's gonna be pissed :eek:

Why? Does he work for Sony? Should I remove it?He would have to acknowledge an active roll as an industry insider if he publicly confronted you. Of course I could be all wrong about that.

I think your okay. ;)

He would have to acknowledge an active roll as an industry insider if he publicly confronted you. Of course I could be all wrong about that.

I think your okay. ;)

A while back, he was pushing for a powerbuy on one of the JVC sets. I guess I assumed he was affiliated with JVC.

I'm pleased to see DD output via the optical seems to exist since I was intending to use the tv with a cablecard from the manual.

Theres one down too bad it also seems to completely confirm 1080i only (I know it was already said, but seeing it for myself is different). That really doesn't sit well with me now since the tv cant even do full 1920x1080 via the vga connection. I know this is highly debateable at this point but why buy a $5k 1080p set if I cant feed it raw 1080p...I guess the average consumer doesn't care about 1:1 HTPC mapping or getting untouched 1080p video in.

But still if nothing else the fact that its inherently not fully supporting the PS3 just seems like a mistake from Sony. They are going to want to say there is a TV in the market that the PS3 can fully make use of and this seems like a perfect missed opportunity.

Here is the SXRD manual for those of you that want to download it....

Thank you, Akastp. :eek:

How about instead you cultivate a professional relationship with a local dealer over a few years and have him/her get it for you? You know, you might spend a bit more money than if buying on the internet, but those B&M's have their advantage...real customer service being a biggie! :D

I'm sure somebody will upload it...that site (megaupload) seems like a real winner! :rolleyes:

Coy my ass! ;)

Jason

No need when you have AVS... ;)

Theres one down too bad it also seems to completely confirm 1080i only (I know it was already said, but seeing it for myself is different). That really doesn't sit well with me now since the tv cant even do full 1920x1080 via the vga connection. I know this is highly debateable at this point but why buy a $5k 1080p set if I cant feed it raw 1080p...I guess the average consumer doesn't care about 1:1 HTPC mapping or getting untouched 1080p video in.

.


I bet the sony CAN do 1080p over VGA. I mean, heck, the Samsungs can do it! And they don't even have the full pixel count!!

I mean, heck, the Samsungs can do it! And they don't even have the full pixel count!!
:rolleyes:

The iLink (Firewire) connection is very handy for the Sony HDV video cameras -- the one chip version for $1700 and the three chip for $3000.

Those HDV cameras go out through iLink as compressed MPEG-2 (DVD) with 1080i resolution. So I assume this will all neatly match up together, as Sony does so well, with it's long-term investment in the interlaced format.

The component-out of the camera during shooting is uncompressed HD 1080i, which doesn't do much for this TV forum, but it could make for a fun party demonstration.

Yep, my deals done. It's all over but the waiting. 60" bliss, SXRD style. My wife is happy there's finally 'something/anything' on the way.

I'll bet Rogo gets to take one home from CEDIA. He'll have one before all of us monkeys.

Too big to fit in my luggage, I'm thinking. :)

Anyone
Where can I get the Qualia 006 manual?
Thanks.

[B]In my opinion, the other advantage of any Sony set (even existing LCD) over DLP is that the color looks more accurate, vibrant, and saturated.

Wow,i respect your opinion,for sure,but to say that LCD from anyone is better then the new sammy i saw side by side to the Qualia,well,not even close.(to either). IMHO :D
Motion and SDE being the most notable thing.
There was also a 720 Sammy next to the 1080p model,a big difference.
I spent alot of time looking at the new Sammy and Qual. vs PIo Plasmas.
The Qual looks every bit as good .
Now i know what everyone has been talking about.
And the Sammy,although not as good as the Qual,was far superior to any lcd and significantly better than anything else(cept the Plasmas).
The new Sammys have an excellent picture.
I don't know how they do that with that silly spinning color wheel, these sets
are getting better and better.
But im interested in the new three chip sxrd,s that are coming out.
Should be awesome.
Again,all due respect. :)

Here is the SXRD manual for those of you that want to download it....
http://www.visualobject.com/downloads/misc/KDS-R50_60XBR1OM.zip
Its on a web server serviced by a T-1 connection so should have good download performance.
I can't guarantee how long I'll be able to carry it though.
Please do not post the above URL outside this forum. Thanks.

Note: The manual for the SXRD is almost identical to that for the WF655 and XS955. Its a bit disappointing that Sony didn't put their new Wega-Gate interface into the SXRD like they did for the A10s and A20s.

I don't ever recall seeing the term "Wega-Gate" in the Qualia manual and the Qualia remote itself forces you to cycle through active/enabled inputs, HOWEVER, as with most sets, you can go directly to any input...I've been doing it for years with my various Harmony remotes.

The more I think about it, the more I think I will more than likely go for the 60" SXRD instead of waiting for a set with 1080P input. I have put off upgrading for years, so long in fact that I am still running a 27" Sony Trinitron (that is 15 years old) and a Pioneer D2S receiver that only does Dolby Pro Logic (no DD even!). :-)

Good decision. I am making the same decision. I still am using my 36" Toshiba, and its nice for regular shows, but for movies with the 2:35 to 1 ratio, its so horrible to try to watch the movie on 1/3 of my screen, and this 60" Sony looks like the way to go NOW!

Anyone
Where can I get the Qualia 006 manual?
Thanks.
Here's the link Carlos:
http://www.docs.sony.com/release/KDS70Q006.pdf

Interesting...from the Business Week article on the home page of AVS, "Time For Sony To Call The TV Repairman"

And it is rushing new HDTVs to market, while launching a major ad campaign that emphasizes their clear, bright pictures. Soon, the company expects to install in its high-end televisions a newfangled processor to improve high-definition images, called the Cell chip, that Sony developed with IBM and Toshiba Corp.


I've always liked the idea of "newfangled" stuff...where can I get me one :D

Thanks for posting the manual! I am interested to see what it will accept via the i.Link / firewire port. Firewire is definitely capable of 1080p, but whether or not the TV can accept it is another question entirely.

I bet the sony CAN do 1080p over VGA. I mean, heck, the Samsungs can do it! And they don't even have the full pixel count!!

1) The resolution that an input can receive has nothing to do with the resolution
of the display.

2) The new Samsung 1080p DLPs like all 1080p DLP displays every pixel of
the 1920x1080 format.

He'll have one before all of us monkeys.

How many monkeys does it take to change a light bulb? Two. One to change the light bulb. And 2, to throw feces at each other. :)

Thanks for posting the manual! I am interested to see what it will accept via the i.Link / firewire port. Firewire is definitely capable of 1080p, but whether or not the TV can accept it is another question entirely.I'm curious too. The only review I have seen on the Qualia 006 using the IEEE-1394 FireWire inputs was not very positive. I would lke to know if any current owners are getting HD resolution through the port.

Here's the review.
http://www.avrev.com/equip/sonyqualia006/index3.html
As mentioned earlier, I was very puzzled that the two IEEE-1394 FireWire inputs would not respond to high-definition sources (720p and 1080i), but instead only respond to SD (480i/p). The three JVC D-VHS recorders I own all lock onto and can even record the HDTV signal now available from Sony and JVC. My belief as a consumer is that a 1080p television with FireWire inputs should display HD sources automatically, particularly from other QUALIA components, like the 002 HD camcorder. Perhaps a software upgrade would work, but I don’t know where one might make the connection.

1) The resolution that an input can receive has nothing to do with the resolution
of the display.

2) The new Samsung 1080p DLPs like all 1080p DLP displays every pixel of
the 1920x1080 format.

Technically, they don't. And all the "wobulated" chip DLP's introduce further noise into the picture that is apparent if you watch fast-action or sports sequences. Only the LCoS-Based Sony SXRD's, JVC D-ILA's, LG and Hitachi LCoS sets will have TRUE, Full 1080P chips that introduce no added noise to PQ this year. The difference in the PQ of these sets as compared to the "1080P" DLP sets should be easily noticeable. Especially from close distances and with fast-action or fast moving sports scenes, but we'll have to wait a few months to confirm this. The Sony SXRD's will leave no doubt as to the superiority of the LCoS tehnology - without even getting into the reliability issues of DLP....

If I sit six inches from the screen how big should the screen be?

If I sit six inches from the screen how big should the screen be?
Definitely go for the 60"! :D Unless you're willing to wait for a possible 70"! :eek:

Jason

If I sit six inches from the screen how big should the screen be?

HTWAITS,

:eek:

I think you mean 6 feet. :) Right? :D

Matthew

HTWAITS,

:eek:

I think you mean 6 feet. :) Right? :D

Matthew
Nope. I want to see what gazelle sees. :eek:

I'm curious too. The only review I have seen on the Qualia 006 using the IEEE-1394 FireWire inputs was not very positive. I would lke to know if any current owners are getting HD resolution through the port.

Here's the review.
http://www.avrev.com/equip/sonyqualia006/index3.html

not sure what was wrong with that reviewers setup/equipment, but there is at least one Q006 owner that has been using his DVHS deck regularly with his Q006 through the i.Link ports without problem.

Nope. I want to see what gazelle sees. :eek:


Obviously you easily could. Anyone can. IF you had any interest in seeing it, which, judging by your posts, you don't:)

It truly amazes me to see so many of the people that are interested in/buying the wobulated DLP sets clamoring for 1080p input when i would be clamoring first for three chip dlp sets!

If I sit six inches from the screen how big should the screen be?
3.7 inches diagonal if it's 16:9 widescreen format...

It truly amazes me to see so many of the people that are interested in/buying the wobulated DLP sets clamoring for 1080p input when i would be clamoring first for three chip dlp sets!

LOL - You forget, many of these folk are not very objective and are just posting here to promote their agenda. Witness the disproportionate acceptance and glorification of DLP's, which is exactly the opposite reaction these things get in the real world in similar objective professional or industry discussions....

not sure what was wrong with that reviewers setup/equipment, but there is at least one Q006 owner that has been using his DVHS deck regularly with his Q006 through the i.Link ports without problem.

That's good news/good to hear. Even though I don't own the Qualia (waiting for the SXRD obviously).

[Thinking about upgrading my JVC 30000 D-VHS to the one with HDMI (and because it does DTS). Probably should have done it a long time ago with the HD DVD formats looming on the horizon. Oh well, i still plant to upgrade my deck. :D ]

When I get my Wega guys, I won't be able to wait to make a FULL HD copy :) (it will be my very FIRST) of a show, onto a D-VHS tape. For private use of course. :)

It truly amazes me to see so many of the people that are interested in/buying the wobulated DLP sets clamoring for 1080p input when i would be clamoring first for three chip dlp sets!

Sony and JVC give us 3-chip 1080p and TI gives us half-chip 1080p. Hmmm... :)

Interesting...from the Business Week article on the home page of AVS, "Time For Sony To Call The TV Repairman"

And it is rushing new HDTVs to market, while launching a major ad campaign that emphasizes their clear, bright pictures. Soon, the company expects to install in its high-end televisions a newfangled processor to improve high-definition images, called the Cell chip, that Sony developed with IBM and Toshiba Corp.


I've always liked the idea of "newfangled" stuff...where can I get me one :D

Is the "Cell chip" intended to be an improved deinterlacer/scaler"? What exactly is it suppose to be? Will it go in the SXRD sets coming out soon, or is it intended for something further out? Inquiring minds........

It truly amazes me to see so many of the people that are interested in/buying the wobulated DLP sets clamoring for 1080p input when i would be clamoring first for three chip dlp sets!
Sim2 has an new "low cost" front projector that uses three HD2+ DarkChip3 chips. I would love to have one but they start at $18k and it wouldn't surprise me if the lense turned out to be an extra.

I would also love to have a Sony SXRD set. When Sony builds one that will fit into my small livingroom (no side mounted speakers or reflective screen) at a price I can afford, I'll be there. That's why I read this thread. :cool:

In the mean time, I'll have to struggle with my calibrated HLP5063 and DVDs played by our HTPC. That setup produces a perfect wobulated 1280x720 alternating black and white pixel test pattern.

I enjoyed Alien from 10 feet last night. I was too frightened to get closer.:o

I guess you haven't compared the Qualia006 with a Sammy 1080P set. The Qualia is definitely better, but it is also a $10K set. My 1080P samsung set produces a picture very close to what I saw on the qualia. You can get that same 3D effect like you get with the Qualia, but of course that also depends on the source. The Sammy 1080P DLP blacks are definitely better than what I saw on the Qualia though. Although I would be very happy with a Qualia , but the picture is only slightly better, it isn't 2X as good as the Samsung, but it is over 2x the price.

Technically, they don't. And all the "wobulated" chip DLP's introduce further noise into the picture that is apparent if you watch fast-action or sports sequences. Only the LCoS-Based Sony SXRD's, JVC D-ILA's, LG and Hitachi LCoS sets will have TRUE, Full 1080P chips that introduce no added noise to PQ this year. The difference in the PQ of these sets as compared to the "1080P" DLP sets should be easily noticeable. Especially from close distances and with fast-action or fast moving sports scenes, but we'll have to wait a few months to confirm this. The Sony SXRD's will leave no doubt as to the superiority of the LCoS tehnology - without even getting into the reliability issues of DLP....

I know this is an SXRD thread, but I have seen screen shots of 1080p Samsungs running 1:1 through the VGA input and guess what? You absolutely can see every single individual pixel. That's not to say they are as sharp as the Qualia, or that they don't introduce extra noise, but "Technically, they don't" is absolutely untrue. How can a display that shows EVERY PIXEL in a 1920x1080 (minus overscan) image "technically" not display 1920x1080. Given the specs we have right now it will be the Sonys that can't display every pixel of a pc input.

As for the Sony SXRD's not leaving any doubt as to the superiority of the LCoS tehnology, the Qualia already doesn't do that, the SXRDs will have to be significantly better to show this huge disparity that you seem to think should exist. The Qualia is better, but they are both in the same ballpark, as confirmed by almost everyone on this thread that has seen both.

I'm certainly not bashing the Sonys and I'm more interested in them than the Samsungs for a myriad of reasons, but I'm getting kind of sick of baseless assertions contrary to all the facts we currently possess.

It truly amazes me to see so many of the people that are interested in/buying the wobulated DLP sets clamoring for 1080p input when i would be clamoring first for three chip dlp sets!If there was a 3 chip dlp set us avs forum members would still find fault in it...All these 2005 models have fault...it doesn't matter what you buy...they all have some flaws...pick your poison :(

I would also love to have a Sony SXRD set. When Sony builds one that will fit into my small livingroom (no side mounted speakers or reflective screen) .....

No reflective screen. I'm assuming your waiting for a matte screen. Hmmmm, I think you might be waiting for a long time :) because from what I know, Sony never made a monitor with a matte screen. Someone please correct me if I wrong. :)

Thanks.

No reflective screen. I'm assuming your waiting for a matte screen. Hmmmm, I think you might be waiting for a long time :) because from what I know, Sony never made a monitor with a matte screen. Someone please correct me if I wrong. :)

Thanks.
I think Sony makes LCD RPTV sets with non-reflective screens. If I'm wrong then I would need a new house. :(

I think Sony makes LCD RPTV sets with non-reflective screens. If I'm wrong then I would need a new house. :(

Do you live in a glass house (J/K)?

Do you live in a glass house (J/K)?
No, but a small living room with glass widows is not a great place for reflective screens. If I had a dedicated room with light control it wouldn't be a problem. ;)

That was uncalled for.
I agree.

That was uncalled for.

I am sorry - you are right - I apologize.

I just get fed up when I see so many people sit around and nit pick
various technologies rather than find one and enjoy it.

Its the PQ that counts not how it is obtained.

I will delete my post.

We all need to get along...:)

My dilemma this fall will be whether I will be able to see a difference in PQ between a 50" 1080p SXRD and a 50" 768p plasma (it's down to these two kinds of displays for me).

Considering that from 9 feet I cannot see a difference between a 480p plasma and a 768p plasma - I am not optimistic as to be able to see a resolution difference, so other aspects of PQ will have to come into play.

Cool. :)


My tendancy to go for the one liner often gets misinterpreted as sniping but I'm just too slow and lazy to type long-winded essays.

I wasn't attacking anyone's choice of TV. If you like your DLP, good on you. I think that even the most die-hard DLP fan would have to agree that 3 DLP chips would be better than 1.

Well, that's because of all the FUD that is thrown at single chip DLPs and
the color wheel. Actually there are some benefits as long as the Color Wheel
spins fast enough and is done correctly. There is no possibility of convergence
errors with such a solution. Check out the Qualia 06 thread for some disucussion
of convergence errors that were found.

I just dumped my triple chip JVC D-ILA - talk about horrible PQ! There
was red and blue flashes along the endges that developed after a few months.
Movies with dark content looked like mud! Great set for watching sports on
the weekends due to its very bright picture but forget about it for film.

Anyway, back to the topic of this thread -- Sony's new SXRDs!

P.S. Thanks for accepting my apology.

I finally got the chance to see a 61" Samsung 1080p DLP last night. It was running an HD feed (Discovery HD so I assume 1080i). The first thing I noticed was rainbows galore. I usually can't see rainbows in the showroom unless I look for them, but I saw them without even trying on this set. The 720p Sammys at the same store weren't as rainbow-prone. I don't know why I saw rainbows more easily on that set, I can only assume it might have to do with the higher C/R or the way the TV was set up. It was set extremely bright, so that might have made a difference too. The Sammy showed more SSE than the Qualia (but less than any 720p LCDs or DLPs there), this was probably also affected by the excessive brightness. The one thing I will say is the set had a very sharp detailed picture. I think the whole wobulation thing is overblown.

To bring this post a little closer to topic, I don't think the Sammy 1080p looked as good as the best Qualia I've seen, but the set was obviously not calibrated well, so who knows how it would compare if set up right. The rainbows obviously rule it out for some people such as I, but other than that I think it would probably come pretty close to the Qualia once it's set up well. I expect the SXRD to outperform them both though (except for the Qualia's screen perhaps). And for the rainbow-inclined, it's obviously no contest.

It truly amazes me to see so many of the people that are interested in/buying the wobulated DLP sets clamoring for 1080p input when i would be clamoring first for three chip dlp sets!

My statement was more aimed at expressing my growing frustration with the "need" for 1080p inputs, something which I think is largely irrelevant for the near future, when there are bigger fish to fry. :) The statements cocerning DLP and wobulation sort of just sparked it...

Is the "Cell chip" intended to be an improved deinterlacer/scaler"? What exactly is it suppose to be? Will it go in the SXRD sets coming out soon, or is it intended for something further out? Inquiring minds........


Not sure, maybe...may also have to do with the increased computing power the sets will need to deal with future HD encoding schemes...or even, *gasp*, 1080p input :D

:rolleyes: The person in this forum with the biggest agenda would seem to be....YOU! Just about every one of your posts has some bashing of DLPs and/or Samsung in them and this only serves to further diminish whatever marginal credibility you may have left here. You make wild claims about "objective professional or industry discussions" but yet you are never able to substantiate them. You make stupid comments about industry plants but you can't name them and you can't prove your claims. Like many other people here, I'm posting here because I have a genuine interest in the Sony SXRDs which is one of the TVs I am considering as well as 1080p TVs from Samsung, Mitsubishi and Toshiba. Can't you just post without interjecting negative comments about DLPs? Can these SXRDs not stand on their own merits?

I certainly don't want to be accused of defending gazelle, but I believe not too long ago he was in the Qualia owner's thread bashing the Quaila :)

Also, you might have gazelle confused with Artwood on the industry plant comment...I know he is big on that...I'd love to know who he thinks they are so at least we might choose to take what they say with a grain of salt...

I certainly don't want to be accused of defending gazelle, but I believe not too long ago he was in the Qualia owner's thread bashing the Quaila :)

Also, you might have gazelle confused with Artwood on the industry plant comment...I know he is big on that...I'd love to know who he thinks they are so at least we might choose to take what they say with a grain of salt...

The only thing you will never see Gazelle bash is JVC D-ILA RP! Ha!

Now that should put things in perspective...

How bad will DirecTV SD shows look on the 60" SXRD (viewing distance = 11')?

I am jonesing for the SXRD's just like everyone here, but two things are holding me back:

1) It might make sense to wait until Direct TV has the MPEG-4 hardware with TIVO/DVR
and
2) My wife will not be happy if all of her shows (cooking shows, knick-knack shows, who knows what else) become blurry.

Right now with our 32" XBR she's happy as a clam.

Am I right to have this as a concern? I know that to you guys, SD from Direct TV on a 60" is crap, but is it, or do you think it will be, that way to the wives of the world?

Thanks

Also, you might have gazelle confused with Artwood on the industry plant comment...I know he is big on that...I'd love to know who he thinks they are so at least we might choose to take what they say with a grain of salt...
I hope you have a lot of salt handy if you are planning to follow "gazelle and Artwood" theories of reality. ;)

I know this is an SXRD thread, but I have seen screen shots of 1080p Samsungs running 1:1 through the VGA input and guess what? You absolutely can see every single individual pixel. That's not to say they are as sharp as the Qualia, or that they don't introduce extra noise, but "Technically, they don't" is absolutely untrue. How can a display that shows EVERY PIXEL in a 1920x1080 (minus overscan) image "technically" not display 1920x1080. Given the specs we have right now it will be the Sonys that can't display every pixel of a pc input.

As for the Sony SXRD's not leaving any doubt as to the superiority of the LCoS tehnology, the Qualia already doesn't do that, the SXRDs will have to be significantly better to show this huge disparity that you seem to think should exist. The Qualia is better, but they are both in the same ballpark, as confirmed by almost everyone on this thread that has seen both.

I'm certainly not bashing the Sonys and I'm more interested in them than the Samsungs for a myriad of reasons, but I'm getting kind of sick of baseless assertions contrary to all the facts we currently possess.


On a cost/performance basis, you are probably right about the Qualia, however, I would withhold my judgement on the comparison of these two sets b/c most of the people that have seen the Qualia most likely have seen it under very unfavorable circumstances (specifically, horrible source). The difference between seeing the 1080p Samsungs or the Qualia at their respective company showrooms in NYC and seeing them at my local BB/Magnolia store was so great that I thought I was seeing the worst possible analog SD signal being compressed/digitized at a very low bitrate/quality and sent to each of these sets.

The 1080p DLPs have a great picture when fed the appropriate signal, no doubt, but until I can do a side-by-side, or read a professional review, I can't make objective comparisons. Plus, I do own a Qualia :D but I also own a Samsung DLP (non-wobulated, HLN series 720p).

I am presently undecided on getting either one of the new SXRD sets or a 1080p Samsung for a second viewing location; I would get the DLP knowing that I am making a compromise (in my mind wobulation is a compromise even if the PQ is roughly the same) to get a cost savings.

I hope you have a lot of salt handy if you are planning to follow "gazelle and Artwood" theories of reality. ;)


Exactly, I was starting to get paranoid that maybe I shouldn't be listening to everything I say to myself :D

The only thing you will never see Gazelle bash is JVC D-ILA RP! Ha!

Now that should put things in perspective...

Then who is the LG plant, excuse me, I meant to say advocate? I know someone was pushing LG LCOS...

Then who is the LG plant, excuse me, I meant to say advocate? I know someone was pushing LG LCOS...

Gazelle will confuse. That is he is often confused. He will "advocate" various
technologies and companies at various times. He will praise then bash the same set over and over.

We have all heard Samsung PQ was very very good, Mits better, Toshiba is the
high end - best". But all the "buzz" on the street is about JVC D-ILA. Then
he is disappointed and Sumsung PQ sucks. Then he is considering Samsung.
This gets played over and over and over again.

But the one common theme through all his madness and misinformation
will be his unwavering support for JVC D-ILA RP! Ha! Haha! Hahaha!!!

On a cost/performance basis, you are probably right about the Qualia, however, I would withhold my judgement on the comparison of these two sets b/c most of the people that have seen the Qualia most likely have seen it under very unfavorable circumstances (specifically, horrible source).

Fair enough, and I wasn't trying to say the Qualia isn't better, but given the limited viewing circumstances capable in a store (Magnolia), it was my observation that there is more of a difference between all the other rear projection sets there and the Qualia and the Samsung, than there was between the Qualia and the Samsung themselves.

As you said, even a good store environment isn't very effective at letting you critically evaluate the sets, which is why I depend so much on the people here. Plus, at 70 inches, I'm sure the Qualia is also at a disadvantage.

Danny Boy-

You've got mail...

Jason

Danny Boy-

You've got mail...

JasonWerkin' on it. Writin' a book.

Werkin' on it. Writin' a book.
More like a novella...good read nonetheless. Thanks for the info! I'm in!

Jason

I certainly don't want to be accused of defending gazelle, but I believe not too long ago he was in the Qualia owner's thread bashing the Quaila :)

Also, you might have gazelle confused with Artwood on the industry plant comment...I know he is big on that...I'd love to know who he thinks they are so at least we might choose to take what they say with a grain of salt...

obviously gazelle isn't a sony plant because he doesn't even know that the new SXRD based 50" and 60" sets will NOT accept 1080p inputs through component, hdmi or even VGA!

I had a question regarding the VGA inputs on the SXRDs. Does anyone think it will accept other than the supported resolutions in the chart in the manual? I say this because I dimly recall when the GrandWega IIIs (I think) came out there was a rather large thread attempting to get 1:1 mapping. At this point I don't even recall whether it was through DVI or the VGA input.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the final result was, but I do recall people getting very close with custom resolutions and service menu tweaks. The point is that they were definitely using other than the listed supported resolutions in the effort. Even if they never exactly achieved 1:1, they were close enough that, given equivalent success with the SXRDs, I think it would be a vast improvement over the 1280x768 max listed resolution in the manual.

At this point, I will happily settle for 19xx X 10xx scaled slightly by the TV still. Or anything higher than 1280x768. This is really the only thing bothering me about these sets other than the side speakers, which I can live with.

Can we avoid it in this thread?

A thread gets started. It's a hot thread. Then a "leader" emerges who usually has the most posts in the thread and is fairly knowledgeable. Then a "clique" emerges, comprising said leader and "followers", who start talking about OT personal stuff, trolls, plants, PM-ing each other, all unrelated to thread topic. The thread gets cluttered and goes down the shitter.

Happened in the Qualia thread (and presumably many other).

Can we avoid this scenario here?

DJ,

they probaly can get something going through a DVI- hdmi

I don't know how it will react and I realy don' know why sony would be stupid and ad a pc input and not accept its native resolution

You can always connect the PC via the HDMI input and get full 1920x1080...

Well, just as an example, the 50 and 42A10's that just came out (720p native) didn't list 1280x720 as an accepted input via VGA in the manual. Turns out that they do accept it. However, I'm not sure if it's 1:1 (it's been hard trying to convince someone to run the test pattern). It seems scaled down, as there is some underscan.

So the moral of the story is that the set will most likely accept more resolutions via VGA than are listed in the manual, however they may or may not display 1:1.

You'll probably get overscan via HDMI.

DJ,

they probaly can get something going through a DVI- hdmi

I don't know how it will react and I realy don' know why sony would be stupid and ad a pc input and not accept its native resolution

That's true, you should be able to get 1920x1080 interlaced through the HDMI input, I am under the (possibly mistaken) impression that interlaced resolutions for a PC cause more artifacts than a little scaling. Especially with text and the desktop, it would be fairly noticeable wouldn't it?

The A10 is a good example, I hope something like that will work. It is a slightly different case though, because 1280x720 is less than the max supported resolution listed. Maybe it is not limited to just the supported resolutions, within the supported range, but I'm still worried that the upper limit may be accurate. At least there is hope. I'm sure I will have to wait and see. Does the Qualia have a pc input? Has anyone been succesfull with higher resolutions through it?

[QUOTE=tonydeluce]

I just dumped my triple chip JVC D-ILA - talk about horrible PQ! There
was red and blue flashes along the endges that developed after a few months.
Movies with dark content looked like mud! Great set for watching sports on
the weekends due to its very bright picture but forget about it for film.
[QUOTE]

Man, will you stop comparing JVCs nearly 3 year old 720p chips with these new 3rd generation 1080p set coming out from Sony, JVC, LG and Hitachi this year.
Yes it is a LCoS chip but had many teething pains associated with the new technology that is being mass marketed for the first time. Corners were cut
very hard on that set to bring it in at an acceptable price point. Substandard optics
and poor electronic scaler did not help. All in all thought, the JVC have become a huge sales leader for JVC, and 90% of the buying public love the bright, smooth picture LCoS techology offers. I myself, held off from buying after seeing the bad shawdow detail and noise picture and opted to wait for the 1080p.

Now go oil your color wheel, DLP lover!

At my local Tweeter I witnessed in front of me non-techie people praising a Sony A20 OVER a Samsung 6178 -- I obviously thought the Samsung looked better, but I realized my point of view was also colored by the fact that I knew it had 1080p. But generally regular folks preferred the 60inch Sony LCD, including 4 members of my family. They said something about "diamond dots" and "crawling lines" around the edges of pictures. After their impressions I also noticed that the contrast was set way too high on those sets, so that may have contributed to their impressions. I took the family into the other room to show them the Qualia, and the verdict was a unanimous "much better than any TV" and a lot of oohs and aahs -- Then I told them the price of the Qualia and also informed them that it would be this coming in a 60 inch size that we're waiting for :D

At my local Tweeter I witnessed in front of me non-techie people praising a Sony A20 OVER a Samsung 6178 -- I obviously thought the Samsung looked better, but I realized my point of view was also colored by the fact that I knew it had 1080p. But generally regular folks preferred the 60inch Sony LCD, including 4 members of my family. They said something about "diamond dots" and "crawling lines" around the edges of pictures. After their impressions I also noticed that the contrast was set way too high on those sets, so that may have contributed to their impressions. I took the family into the other room to show them the Qualia, and the verdict was a unanimous "much better than any TV" and a lot of oohs and aahs -- Then I told them the price of the Qualia and also informed them that it would be this coming in a 60 inch size that we're waiting for :D

Not surprising - most of the "general public" seem to think the Sony 3LCD's look better than the Samsung 1080P's. when told these sets are 1080P, a common reaction is "really?, they don't look as good as a lot of the other sets, are they 1080P also?". As for the Qualia, most people shouldn't look at one if they are purchasing a HDTV. "Everything else looks like crap in comparison" is the a common refrain:)....

[QUOTE=tonydeluce]

I just dumped my triple chip JVC D-ILA - talk about horrible PQ! There
was red and blue flashes along the endges that developed after a few months.
Movies with dark content looked like mud! Great set for watching sports on
the weekends due to its very bright picture but forget about it for film.
[QUOTE]

Man, will you stop comparing JVCs nearly 3 year old 720p chips with these new 3rd generation 1080p set coming out from Sony, JVC, LG and Hitachi this year.
Yes it is a LCoS chip but had many teething pains associated with the new technology that is being mass marketed for the first time. Corners were cut
very hard on that set to bring it in at an acceptable price point. Substandard optics
and poor electronic scaler did not help. All in all thought, the JVC have become a huge sales leader for JVC, and 90% of the buying public love the bright, smooth picture LCoS techology offers. I myself, held off from buying after seeing the bad shawdow detail and noise picture and opted to wait for the 1080p.

Now go oil your color wheel, DLP lover!


:) :)

A thread gets started. It's a hot thread. Then a "leader" emerges who usually has the most posts in the thread and is fairly knowledgeable. Then a "clique" emerges, comprising said leader and "followers", who start talking about OT personal stuff, trolls, plants, PM-ing each other, all unrelated to thread topic.
Sounds like high school...:D Personally I don't think there are any leaders and/or followers...only people genuinely curious and excited about these new sets. As far as trolls and plants go, that seems to be unavoidable when people (Fartwood) lurk and troll...he's the one accusing members of being "Industry Plants" not the other way around. As far as PM'ing other members, does it really sidetrack a thread to let somebody know that they've got a PM? If so, I'm genuinely sorry...I just had an urgent question that I needed to have answered and instead of posting it directly here in this thread, which would have been OT, I PM'd him.

Jason

At my local Tweeter I witnessed in front of me non-techie people praising a Sony A20 OVER a Samsung 6178 -- I obviously thought the Samsung looked better, but I realized my point of view was also colored by the fact that I knew it had 1080p. But generally regular folks preferred the 60inch Sony LCD, including 4 members of my family. They said something about "diamond dots" and "crawling lines" around the edges of pictures. After their impressions I also noticed that the contrast was set way too high on those sets, so that may have contributed to their impressions. I took the family into the other room to show them the Qualia, and the verdict was a unanimous "much better than any TV" and a lot of oohs and aahs -- Then I told them the price of the Qualia and also informed them that it would be this coming in a 60 inch size that we're waiting for :D

This makes sense to me. The Sony LCDs look very good in the showroom, the ones I have seen seem to have a little extra contrast and punchy colors, a smooth picture and you can't see the defficiency in the black levels very well. If my father-in-law didn't have one that I got to calibrate and watch in a darkened room, I probably would have bought one. In the things that are obvious to inexperienced people, contrast, brightness and colors, they look very good. It's things like sharpness and black levels, and especially detail in dark areas that they are clearly deficient in when compared to the 1080p Samsungs. I really hope the SXRD will solve these shortcomings and I will have the best of both worlds. If the Qualia is any indication they are on the right track.

This makes sense to me. The Sony LCDs look very good in the showroom, the ones I have seen seem to have a little extra contrast and punchy colors, a smooth picture and you can't see the defficiency in the black levels very well. If my father-in-law didn't have one that I got to calibrate and watch in a darkened room, I probably would have bought one. In the things that are obvious to inexperienced people, contrast, brightness and colors, they look very good. It's things like sharpness and black levels, and especially detail in dark areas that they are clearly deficient in when compared to the 1080p Samsungs. I really hope the SXRD will solve these shortcomings and I will have the best of both worlds. If the Qualia is any indication they are on the right track.

It rates to be an exciting Fall/Winter Season for buyers, all the Year's best displays are yet to come:)

As far as trolls and plants go,I'm a ficus. :D

Can we avoid this scenario here?Lets make a new rule: No more making 'dem rules.

Yus guys got somptin to say about SXRD... say it. Somebody gets an owie on their feelings... take it outside.

Jeesh :rolleyes:

Then I told them the price of the Qualia and also informed them that it would be this coming in a 60 inch size that we're waiting for :D

The Qualia I saw a few weeks ago in a store had some very clean HD material playing on it and was EASILY the best TV I've ever seen. Just amazing.

But the 60" SXRD sets that are coming won't necessarily be in the same picture quality ballpark will they? If there's any reason to believe that they are, I need to rethink my Samsung DLP order!

The Qualia I saw a few weeks ago in a store had some very clean HD material playing on it and was EASILY the best TV I've ever seen. Just amazing.

But the 60" SXRD sets that are coming won't necessarily be in the same picture quality ballpark will they? If there's any reason to believe that they are, I need to rethink my Samsung DLP order!

Some have said they will actually be better with the newer chip and electronics. It's also easier to make a 50" or 60" set look better than a 70" set - not a fair comparison. Like you, though, i will believe it when i see it. The Qualia is clearly the best TV i've seen. Nothing really in 2nd place so far. The only thing that even remotely compares is the JVC D-ILA shown at the CES, and that was a Demo, will have to wait for an actual production model this Fall to see how it compares to the Qualia or coming SXRD's.

The Qualia I saw a few weeks ago in a store had some very clean HD material playing on it and was EASILY the best TV I've ever seen. Just amazing.

But the 60" SXRD sets that are coming won't necessarily be in the same picture quality ballpark will they? If there's any reason to believe that they are, I need to rethink my Samsung DLP order!

You should at least wait and see for yourself...the majority speculation here is that they will be better...i'm not sure about that, but i am keeping an open mind, and open checkbook :)

But the 60" SXRD sets that are coming won't necessarily be in the same picture quality ballpark will they? If there's any reason to believe that they are, I need to rethink my Samsung DLP order!I'm guessing the SXRD sets will have a screen material similar to the XS series. Since it's more of a matte finish than the Q006 I suspect you will have a little less contrast. But the new .61 chips are higher contrast which may offset that difference.

I'm guessing the SXRD sets will have a screen material similar to the XS series. Since it's more of a matte finish than the Q006 I suspect you will have a little less contrast. But the new .61 chips are higher contrast which may offset that difference.

Plus the truly dynamic iris, rather than one with fixed settings right? That should improve black levels even further.

I'm guessing the SXRD sets will have a screen material similar to the XS series. Since it's more of a matte finish than the Q006 I suspect you will have a little less contrast. But the new .61 chips are higher contrast which may offset that difference.


Hmm, dunno about your guess; what would lead you to believe it will be more of a matter finish? My impression is that the screen (including its shiny nature) is part of the PQ of the SXRD design implementation; i.e., it is functional in nature.

Forgive me if this has been covered, but Crutchfield says that both 50 and 60 inch SXRD models are "expected Sep. 19th". Has the release been moved up or is this erroneous? It says Oct/Nov at the beginning of this thread.

I've had a GWIII for about 2 years with the infamous buzz/lamp issue and recently a Panny plasma which I'm unsatisfied with so hopefully mid Sep. will be a good time for a new purchase. :)

Plus the truly dynamic iris, rather than one with fixed settings right? That should improve black levels even further.

DJBENTLE,

In regards to irises (sp?) on TV, Let's see what I can RECALL :confused: :

- The Qualia has an iris, but not sure what kind.

- The SXRD has 2 irises?? One fixed and one dynamic (which I believe is available only in 'Pro Mode).'

I wonder how Pro Mode will be on the SXRD ' . ' If THERE is Vivd Mode (like some Sony TV's have, I never use that). I tend to set my Sony TV color temp settings to 'Cool.'

No reponse needed from anybody. Just talking to myself, again. :) :(

Hmm, dunno about your guess; what would lead you to believe it will be more of a matter finish? My impression is that the screen (including its shiny nature) is part of the PQ of the SXRD design implementation; i.e., it is functional in nature.I guess now that I think about it, it was an assumption on my part. I checked the Q006, KDF-60XS955 and KDS-R60XBR1 manuals and all use the same terminology "To minimize reflection, the screen surface has a special coating. Inappropriate cleaning methods could damage the screen surface. Special care is required.".

Nothing to differentiate the types of screen. Oops :o

I guess now that I think about it, it was an assumption on my part. I checked the Q006, KDF-60XS955 and KDS-R60XBR1 manuals and all use the same terminology "To minimize reflection, the screen surface has a special coating. Inappropriate cleaning methods could damage the screen surface. Special care is required.".

Nothing to differentiate the types of screen. Oops :o
It sounds like it will glare. Mitsubishi has three 2004 categories of screen protector with increasing "special coating" that reduces glare as they get more expensive. Still, they all glare and you have the option to remove the protective screen.

Wanted to ask you guys something just in case one of you knows.

There is a fellow member who works for Digital Video Essentials/Joe Kane who posts in these forum(s) and does calibrations. I remember him mentioning this in his signature. My question is....

1. Does anyone know his name?

or

2. What forum I should post my question ("start" a new thread).

Can't thank-you guys enough for your help.

Matthew

DIDN'T THINK ABOUT IT AT THE TIME. JUST E-MAILED DVE TO ASK IF THEY EVEN DO IN HOME CALIBRATIONS. THANKS ANYWAYS.

It sounds like it will glare. Mitsubishi has three 2004 categories of screen protector with increasing "special coating" that reduces glare as they get more expensive. Still, they all glare and you have the option to remove the protective screen.

The GWIII has minimal glare due to a non-reflective coating on the screen and it's not removable. It sounds similar on the SXRD model. The older XBR's had a shiny plastic looking screen.

Anyone with comments on the Crutchfield Sep 19th availability claim?

Should this TV be renamed the GWVI(six)?

The one thing that irks me so far about this TV is the seemingly unnecessary widening with the side mounted speakers and air spaces in between. Can't think of a logical reason for this other than some hair-brained idea from a marketing engineer. Here's a pic: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-V2WXh5B2e3k/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=147350&id=morephotos&pi=1&i=158SR50XBR&display=L#Tab

Hmm, dunno about your guess; what would lead you to believe it will be more of a matter finish? My impression is that the screen (including its shiny nature) is part of the PQ of the SXRD design implementation; i.e., it is functional in nature.

I think the biggest clue is the TV's weight. The Qualia is super-heavy for a microdisplay, and a lot of that weight is attributed to the special screen. According to the Crutchfield website, the 60" SXRD weighs 112.5 lbs, about what the XS weighed, and a lot less than you'd expect if it had a Qualia-style screen. This is good news for those who are afraid of glare, but not-so-good for those of us who are hoping for Qualia-like PQ. I think we all need to adjust our expectations for this set. Everything from the case to the inputs to the screen indicate this is basically an SXRD light engine placed in an XS TV. I'm preparing myself now to expect some SSE and some loss in contrast compared to the Qualia, so that I won't be unreasonably disappointed when the TV finally makes an appearance.

I think the biggest clue is the TV's weight. The Qualia is super-heavy for a microdisplay, and a lot of that weight is attributed to the special screen. According to the Crutchfield website, the 60" SXRD weighs 112.5 lbs, about what the XS weighed, and a lot less than you'd expect if it had a Qualia-style screen. This is good news for those who are afraid of glare, but not-so-good for those of us who are hoping for Qualia-like PQ. I think we all need to adjust our expectations for this set. Everything from the case to the inputs to the screen indicate this is basically an SXRD light engine placed in an XS TV. I'm preparing myself now to expect some SSE and some loss in contrast compared to the Qualia, so that I won't be unreasonably disappointed when the TV finally makes an appearance.

The XS didnt' have SXRD 1080p panels. Also, I think the addition of the adjustable/dynamic iris has the potential for making a TV with *better* contrast/black levels than the Qualia. This has been the main weakness so far in the design.

Looking through the SXRD manual, only two similar references to the iris.

Page 81 says: Iris ----- Adjust the contrast levels

A screen capture shows a slider next to the Iris adjustment with the left end of the slider labeled "MAX."

No further explanation. Maybe MAX means the maximum dynamic range of the iris? But is it the maximum allowed opening, or maximum degree of closure of the iris? For a feature that is touted as being such an improvement to the new SXRD's, Sony sure doesn't give any details.

There are equally useless descriptions of the other advanced video settings, such as DTE, Clear White, Black Corrector, Gamma Corrector. Are there more techinical manuals or white papers about these settings and how they work?

The XS didnt' have SXRD 1080p panels. Also, I think the addition of the adjustable/dynamic iris has the potential for making a TV with *better* contrast/black levels than the Qualia. This has been the main weakness so far in the design.

Yeah, what I said. An XS with an SXRD light engine... OK I'll amend that to an XS with an SXRD light engine and A10 optics. My point is, not everything that is in the Qualia which provides it with its great PQ will be in these sets. Some things are left out (like the screen) while other things have been improved (the panels and the iris). What the ultimate result will be for PQ won't really be known til the sets are released. I think it's a bit optimistic to base an opinion on these sets on how the Qualia looks. I'm really anal about SSE so the absence of a Qualia-like screen is a bigger concern to me than maybe it is to some other people. I saw an A10 the other night and SSE was atrocious... worse even than previous Sony LCD models I've seen, though how much of that is due to setup I can't say. I'm not trying to be a party pooper, I'm just trying to set my own expectations realistically. I've already bought too many HDTVs only to be disappointed with the PQ, and I don't want another heartbreak.

that sucks no 1920 x 1080 oh well I guess 1280 x 768 aint bad.
I just wonder why it can't do any higher than 1280 x 1024.

Does this mean that a computer set to output a resolution of 1280 x 1024 produces an image on our 1920 x 1080 SXRD with 320 pixels of black on either side and 28 pixels above and below? Sort of a letterboxed desktop?

Is this what is meant by 1:1 mapping?

How could a HTPC playing a DVD make use of the full screen?

On a roll here with questions...

Both the 60SX995 and the R60XBR1 manuals show the minimum viewing distance to be 7 feet. The new SXRD diagram illustrating this does not appear to be a simple copy of the older XS995 one, because the viewing angles are slightly different--130 degrees horizontally for the SXRD and 125 degrees for the XS995. If they went to the trouble of being so precise as to point out a 5 degree difference in viewing angle, wouldn't the viewing distance be as precisely measured, too?

So why couldn't (or shouldn't) you sit closer to a 1080p set than a 768p set?

With the smaller size of the 50" SXRD, is it more difficult to discern differences between the competing displays?

I believe that CNET raised this point when describing the Qualia, that the large 70" screen amplifies the quality of the technology behind it. A senior editor then weighs in that you'd be hard pressed to notice much difference between DLP and SXRD in a 50" screen.

Any thoughts on this one?

I think it's a bit optimistic to base an opinion on these sets on how the Qualia looks. I'm really anal about SSE so the absence of a Qualia-like screen is a bigger concern to me than maybe it is to some other people. .

I guess I'm an optimist considering I've already put my eggs in this basket. I have a Panny 50 inch 8th generation plasma right now and although it has a little more "wow'' factor I think the pq is inferior overall to the GWIII (KEF 610).

Would you have thought that 4k plasmas now would equal the 10 k plasma pq of 2 yrs ago? I don't think it's overly optimistic. It's *very* likely the SXRD is similar to the Qualia model just from the standpoint of practicality in the design and implementation process. Sure, I bet there are a few cost savings measures employed (like the absence of a Sony internal "digital" amplifier), but the guts are likely very similar. A 70 inch xbr would likely be around at least 7K anyway based on the current xbr pricing which really isn't that far from the Qualia 006 price point considering volume pricing expectations from Sony with the xbr.

Somewhere back in this thread I saw a post quoting 90% fill rate for the SXRD versus 70% for the previous LCD. Couple that with the increased pixel number and SDE should be decreased significantly. I'm not sure what exactly causes so-called silk-screen effect (SSE) though. I'm not even sure if this term is all that well defined.

I think the biggest clue is the TV's weight. The Qualia is super-heavy for a microdisplay, and a lot of that weight is attributed to the special screen. According to the Crutchfield website, the 60" SXRD weighs 112.5 lbs, about what the XS weighed, and a lot less than you'd expect if it had a Qualia-style screen. This is good news for those who are afraid of glare, but not-so-good for those of us who are hoping for Qualia-like PQ. I think we all need to adjust our expectations for this set. Everything from the case to the inputs to the screen indicate this is basically an SXRD light engine placed in an XS TV. I'm preparing myself now to expect some SSE and some loss in contrast compared to the Qualia, so that I won't be unreasonably disappointed when the TV finally makes an appearance.

I think these are all very good points.

I think the biggest clue is the TV's weight. The Qualia is super-heavy for a microdisplay, and a lot of that weight is attributed to the special screen. According to the Crutchfield website, the 60" SXRD weighs 112.5 lbs, about what the XS weighed, and a lot less than you'd expect if it had a Qualia-style screen. This is good news for those who are afraid of glare, but not-so-good for those of us who are hoping for Qualia-like PQ. I think we all need to adjust our expectations for this set.
First of all, I don't believe anybody was expecting them to outfit the SXRDs with a Qualia-like screen...I certainly wasn't. That TV is meant to be in a perfectly light-controlled environment (without reflections or ambient lighting), unlike the XS line which you can pretty much place anywhere (within reason). My local dealer (I will refer to him as Jesus) has an awesome setup in their back room with all of the big Mits sets lined up from the Diamond Series on down and then has the big Sonys lined up all the way from the WE to the Qualia. Feeding them all the same source and with no tweaking or calibrating, it's very easy to see the differences in these sets. I really liked the Sony XS, in part because I'm a fan of anything sony does with optics, but also because of the attractive price tag.

I also seriously considered the Mits, because of the advantage of deep blacks that DLP offers, but ruled them out because of monstrous screen glare. Standing 10 feet away, in a light controlled environment, I could see the reflection of myself starting to vomit. Start at the low end, the xx525 I believe, and work your way on up to the Diamond, the xx925, and the screen glare is reduced. Of course, they say you can remove the Diamond Shield covering, but what the heck did you just pay for? Why should I be "modding" a brand new set and taking parts off of it?

Look off to the right and you can see the whole gamut of Sony sets...all the way up to the Qualia. PQ is improved, obviously, as you go up the line, but for us, the best screen was the XS line. The amount of glare is absolutely minimal and the PQ was pretty darn good. Couple (or triple) that with the SXRD technology and the truly dynamic iris and I think it'll be a winner. Will it outperform the Qualia...I don't know. Maybe it will rival the Qualia's PQ and offer a less reflective screen... Maybe it'll be a trade-off between sacrificed PQ because of the non-reflective screen and the improved CR with the dynamic iris...

Who the hell knows? None of us have seen these sets yet. It's hilarious that this thread is passed the 50 page mark and nobody has seen one of these yet...:)

With my ear to the ground I remain...

Jason

I wa hoping this set would be the one that would work for me but i think it will be to wide for my opening with the big ears on each side unless i can cut them off.Any thoughts if sony will have the same type of set without the ears?

With the smaller size of the 50" SXRD, is it more difficult to discern differences between the competing displays?

I believe that CNET raised this point when describing the Qualia, that the large 70" screen amplifies the quality of the technology behind it. A senior editor then weighs in that you'd be hard pressed to notice much difference between DLP and SXRD in a 50" screen.

Any thoughts on this one?

If you're close enough to see SDE/SSE then it will make a difference. The increased panel rez/chip improvement in my mind will have the most effect on SDE.

You won't see RBE (rainbows) on the SXRD.

The biggest improvement I expect is in black levels and contrast due to the iris. This has been the traditional achilles heel of the technology. If I could have the general pq of the GWIII with the black level/contrast of plasma I'd be a happy camper.

That's true, you should be able to get 1920x1080 interlaced through the HDMI input, I am under the (possibly mistaken) impression that interlaced resolutions for a PC cause more artifacts than a little scaling. Especially with text and the desktop, it would be fairly noticeable wouldn't it?



A 1080i PC desktop sent to the SXRD should look EXACTLY the same as a 1080p desktop.
There should be absolutely zero artefacts of any kind. If there is, there is something seriously wrong with the deinterlacer in the Sony, as converting progressive sourced 1080i 60 fields per second video to 1080p 30 frames per second is dead simple, and COMPLETELY loss less.

Contrary to what some people think, external scalers CAN be used with the SXRD to handle the very complicated task of deinterlacing true interlaced source from conventional interlaced video cameras.
After deinterlacing and scaling (if required) the resulting 1080p video is reinterlaced by the external scaler and sent to the display as 1080i. The display deinterlacer then only need to do very simple weave deinterlacing and 3:2 pull down as required to recreated PERFECT 1080p for display.
It all sounds very complicated, but in reality it is not.
There is no need for a 1080p 60 input on the Sony for video playback, although it would be nice to have a 1080p 24 input, as movies will be stored on BluRay disk in that format. However it is vet to be seen how many players will output 1080p 24 directly. In realty it will probably not matter, as the display deinterlacer should easily be able to convert back to 1080p from progressive sourced 1080I without issue.

BluRay DOES NOT SUPPORT 1080p 60 and neither does HDDVD, nor is there any 1080p 60 video source on the horizon as fare as I am aware, other then games, and even that remains to be seen.

ALL RPTV’s overscan by design (preset by the lens system), so you can NEVER get 1920x1080 pixels on screen.
To be able to see all the Windows desktop you must use a “Custom” resolution inside standard 1080i timing, like 1776x1000. This means that even though a full 1920x1080 image is being sent to the TV, only the middle 1776x1000 actually contains picture information.
This system gives perfect 1:1 pixel mapping (assuming the display does not scale 1080i inputs) and is supported by current video drivers for both Nvidia and Radeon cards.
It works perfectly for Component output, but I have not tested it with DVI-HDMI, however it should work the same with that as well.

I think we all need to adjust our expectations...I'm preparing myself...so that I won't be unreasonably disappointed...I'm not trying to be a party pooper, I'm just trying to set my own expectations realistically....I don't want another heartbreak.
Dude, we're talking about a TV...Try to lighten up a bit....:D

Jason

Dude, we're talking about a TV...Try to lighten up a bit....:D

Jason

Yeah, a TV that costs $5000.00!

I'm preparing myself now to expect some SSE and some loss in contrast compared to the Qualia, so that I won't be unreasonably disappointed when the TV finally makes an appearance.

I agree with the realistic expectation, but I don't understand why you'd expect a loss of contrast with the addition of the iris in a smaller screen...

Yeah, a TV that costs $5000.00!
Yeah if you're a sucker that's payin' msrp! :eek:

Jason

Yeah if you're a sucker that's payin' msrp! :eek:

Jason

LOL

:p

I was only sayin' that e-of-1 was getting pretty emotional about the whole thing...and this is coming from a guy/girl that complained that nobody was sharing the manual, despite the fact that they had blocked PMs. I guess that's what happens when you get your undies in a bunch! :D Personally, I try to think with my credit card and my carpenter's square, though the two are often interchangeable and equally accepted.

Jason

At a recent internal meeting, a question was posed to the senior Sony TV engineer in the US about what the differences in PQ of the Qualia 006 and the new 50" and 60" XBR SXRD sets are. His answer was nothing except for differences in size.

At a recent internal meeting, a question was posed to the senior Sony TV engineer in the US about what the differences in PQ of the Qualia 006 and the new 50" and 60" XBR SXRD sets are. His answer was nothing except for differences in size.
To me, that doesn't make any sense. To reduce the size of the 70" Qualia would drastically improve the PQ on a 60" or 50" set. To say that the PQ is the same almost suggests that the SXRD PQ is inferior, but benefits from the "more concentrated" screen size. This sounds bogus, but who knows? I think (and hope) that the 60" SXRD will outperform the 70" Qualia as far as PQ goes (despite the "inferior" screen) because of the CR issue, but certainly won't meet the Qualia in terms of build quality and user-friendliness. As I said, I'm hoping for the non-glare screen, even if it means sacrificing that improvement in PQ. A highly reflective screen is an absolute no-go. Did you get my PM Rogo? I'll take those tacos to go-go. Look at me on my new pogo. Get two for one with BOGO.

I'm done.

Jason

At a recent internal meeting, a question was posed to the senior Sony TV engineer in the US about what the differences in PQ of the Qualia 006 and the new 50" and 60" XBR SXRD sets are. His answer was nothing except for differences in size.I've always been told size doesn't matter. I wonder why I keep hearing that :eek:

:D

I've always been told size doesn't matter. I wonder why I keep hearing that :eek:

:D

Not on this forum. Here, size clearly matters: The Bigger the Better! Yes, some will argue that it really depends on how (and where) you use the size, but I still say bigger is better whenever possible.

:cool:

I've always been told size doesn't matter. I wonder why I keep hearing that :eek: :D
It's because you're Irish...Oh Danny Boy!

Oh Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
From glen to glen, and down the mountain side
The summer's gone, and all the flowers are dying
'Tis you, 'tis you must go and I must bide.
But come ye back when summer's in the meadow
Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow
'Tis I'll be here in sunshine or in shadow
Oh Danny boy, oh Danny boy, I love you so.

And if you come, when all the flowers are dying
And I am dead, as dead I well may be
You'll come and find the place where I am lying
And kneel and say an "Ave" there for me.

And I shall hear, tho' soft you tread above me
And all my dreams will warm and sweeter be
If you'll not fail to tell me that you love me
I'll simply sleep in peace until you come to me.

I'll simply sleep in peace until you come to me.

I really hope I'm pissing Wjotek off! :D

Jason

It's because you're Irish...Oh Danny Boy!

Oh Danny boy..........I hope you sat there and typed all that :D

Jason needs help!

;)

I hope you sat there and typed all that :D
Is there some other way to do it...? I had the song in my head and just let it flow! :D

Jason (apparently in need of help)

Is there some other way to do it...? I had the song in my head and just let it flow! :D

Jason (apparently in need of help)Google -> copy -> paste. You used your brain? Gee... how 80's ;)

I hope you sat there and typed all that :D
Jeez...after all that time you spent typing me that heartbreaking story of an orphaned family of Golden Retriever puppies that were recovered by your local animal shelter, and the story about the kids that that discovered them and took them in, the least I could do was to serenade you with a song from my heritage. I feel bad that Wjotek wasn't able to adopt a puppy, but I'm seriously considering naming my two puppies "Wjo" and "Tek" (not sure how to pronounce the first one...suggestions are welcome). Thank you for being such a humanitarian and putting the needs and wants of us addicted videophiles aside for a mere moment....just for a moment to reflect....upon ourselves....in the super shiny glass of those damn Mitsubishi sets! :D HAH!

Jason (corrupted again!)

Bad news about the puppies. They were shredded in a spinning DLP color wheel accident. The good news 8 kittens were found floating down a flooded river on a Sony SXRD carton.

I gotta get to bed. Hopefully someone will have some new SXRD info Friday so we can buzz about it all weekend.

On a roll here with questions...

Both the 60SX995 and the R60XBR1 manuals show the minimum viewing distance to be 7 feet. The new SXRD diagram illustrating this does not appear to be a simple copy of the older XS995 one, because the viewing angles are slightly different--130 degrees horizontally for the SXRD and 125 degrees for the XS995. If they went to the trouble of being so precise as to point out a 5 degree difference in viewing angle, wouldn't the viewing distance be as precisely measured, too?

So why couldn't (or shouldn't) you sit closer to a 1080p set than a 768p set?

I think they're basing the viewing distance on size, not on resolution. 7 feet was way too close for a 60" XS unless you don't mind SDE.

7 feet was way too close for a 60" XS unless you don't mind SDE.
Absolutely...no closer than 9 or 10 feet for the 60" XS.

Jason

I agree with the realistic expectation, but I don't understand why you'd expect a loss of contrast with the addition of the iris in a smaller screen...

Maybe not so much the actual measured contrast but the perceived contrast. To me at least, and provided your reflections are under control, glassy screens look a bit deeper and more dimensional, a property I associate with contrast. I prefer that to the flatter, more projected look of the matte screens. That's one reason I have always preferred the look of plasmas to RPTVS, and why the Qualia is one of the more appealing RPTVs to me. Still, I don't think it'll be that big of a deal PQ-wise. I wasn't expecting these SXRDs to have the Qualia screen, I was just a bit confused by the people who were.

I was only sayin' that e-of-1 was getting pretty emotional about the whole thing...and this is coming from a guy/girl that complained that nobody was sharing the manual, despite the fact that they had blocked PMs. I guess that's what happens when you get your undies in a bunch! :D Personally, I try to think with my credit card and my carpenter's square, though the two are often interchangeable and equally accepted.

Jason

I'm not emotional about it. 'Heartbroken' may have been a bit of hyperbole. But I have bought and returned 3 different TVs this year, and despite my ironclad rule of only buying from B&Ms, returning a TV is still a PITA I'd prefer not to repeat again. So, overly picky? Perhaps. But overly emotional? Not so much.

Not surprising - most of the "general public" seem to think the Sony 3LCD's look better than the Samsung 1080P's. when told these sets are 1080P, a common reaction is "really?, they don't look as good as a lot of the other sets, are they 1080P also?". As for the Qualia, most people shouldn't look at one if they are purchasing a HDTV. "Everything else looks like crap in comparison" is the a common refrain:)....

Your nuts, :eek: and the Sammy 1080 was very close in PQ(to Qualia),at the Magnolia store were they were side by side,no crawling lines,no motion artifacts,(like the LCD,s)
And accept for some slightly less detail in the blacks,and some minor pixillation,in just a few places,Very close in PQ.

But,three chip DLP,if it ever happens in a DLP,well depending on the the signal processing should be outstanding.
But a new three chip SXRD set from Sony,Has to be good.
Get out into the real world and look at these sets for yourself and stop reciting what some group of industry analysts have said.
I am a noob for sure,but i know what i have seen.
However it is nice to hear that someone has polled"the General Public". ;)

Looking through the SXRD manual, only two similar references to the iris.

Page 81 says: Iris ----- Adjust the contrast levels

A screen capture shows a slider next to the Iris adjustment with the left end of the slider labeled "MAX."

No further explanation. Maybe MAX means the maximum dynamic range of the iris? But is it the maximum allowed opening, or maximum degree of closure of the iris? For a feature that is touted as being such an improvement to the new SXRD's, Sony sure doesn't give any details.

There are equally useless descriptions of the other advanced video settings, such as DTE, Clear White, Black Corrector, Gamma Corrector. Are there more techinical manuals or white papers about these settings and how they work?



Well, did a quick comparison bet the Q006 & SXRD 60" manuals.
Below are the main differences:


SXRD PANEL Q006 3 x .78in X 60" 3 x .61in

LENS Q006 F2.4 X 60" F2.5

LAMP Q006 UHP 200W X 60" UHP120W

PC IN Q006 N.A. X 60" D-Sub 15 pin

SPKR Q006 25W L/R+25W Woofer X 60" 15W L/R

IRIS CONTROL Q006 N.A. X 60" YES

WEIGHT Q006 124kg/273lb X. 60" 51kg/112lb

POWER ON Q006 330W X 60" 240W

Besides the above, there might be some other differences in the menus & etc .
Also, both manuals have a warning for screen care: "To minimize reflection, the screen has a special coating". Jason??
Hope it helps.

snip...And accept for some slightly less detail in the blacks,and some minor pixillation,in just a few places,Very close in PQ.




Was it the Samsung 1080 or the Qualia that had slightly less detail in the blacks and minor pixellation????????

I'm thinking it was the Qualia, but wanted to ask to be sure.

Also, what size Samsung?? We know the Qualia would have been a 70"

Thanks.

Absolutely...no closer than 9 or 10 feet for the 60" XS.

Jason

I'm going to be 8-1/2 feet away (eyes to screen), what do you think?

I'm going to be 8-1/2 feet away (eyes to screen), what do you think?

I'd definitely go with the 50 inch if I were you. You could easily go down to 42 inch at that distance (but you don't have an option for SXRD any time soon).

I'm at 14 ft. and have been happy with a 50 inch GWIII and plan to get the 50 inch SXRD.

hey guys my room is 11' x 17' , we will be puting it on the 11' wall, what set should I go for.

I'm not emotional about it. 'Heartbroken' may have been a bit of hyperbole. But I have bought and returned 3 different TVs this year, and despite my ironclad rule of only buying from B&Ms, returning a TV is still a PITA I'd prefer not to repeat again. So, overly picky? Perhaps. But overly emotional? Not so much.
I was just giving you a hard time...:) I'm also a die-hard B&M shopper, and I'm sure that it's been a GIANT PITA to have to return 3 sets...we're not talking 17" tabletop LCDs here...:D Not to mention the frustration of bringing home each set only to find that it doesn't meet your needs. BTW, which 3 models did you buy/return?

Hopefully these SXRDs will do the trick for you!

Jason

I'm going to be 8-1/2 feet away (eyes to screen), what do you think?
You might be able to get away with the 60", but I'd suggest going to a B&M and sitting down at 8 1/2' from one of their 60" sets and just watch TV for a while. You might find that it's too close for a set that large and that you'll get some eye strain from looking back and forth too much, but on the other hand you may love it! Only you can be the judge. My previous statement was a little too "absolute!" :D

hey guys my room is 11' x 17' , we will be puting it on the 11' wall, what set should I go for.
I would think the 60" would definitely be in order. But you're not sitting 17' away are you? :D :eek:

Jason

Absolutely...no closer than 9 or 10 feet for the 60" XS.

Jason
This was obviously only in reference to SDE...which hopefully will not even be an issue on the SXRDs. Eye strain/fatigue is a totally different story and sitting distance/size varies from person to person. Again, I'd suggest going to BB or CC or (even better) a local dealer and bring a tape measure and move some chairs around see what size set works for you.
And remember, if in doubt...supersize it! :D

Jason

I really hope I'm pissing Wjotek off! :D

Jason

Nah, you're just cluttering this thread...

I pretty much learned all I need about the 50" SXRD already and the next step will be to go and see it, and if I like it enough, buy it.

You boys can go on with Irish songs, flame wars, and inane OT musings.

I am too old for that (you see, the time gets more valuable relative to your age - the Wojtek relativity principle!!! :D )

Dude I was only poking fun at you...go enjoy your valuable time elsewhere. BTW, I'm still naming my dogs after you (pronunciation be damned!).

Jason

Nah, you're just cluttering this thread...

I pretty much learned all I need about the 50" SXRD already and the next step will be to go and see it, and if I like it enough, buy it.

You boys can go on with Irish songs, flame wars, and inane OT musings.

I am too old for that (you see, the time gets more valuable relative to your age - the Wojtek relativity principle!!! :D )Agreed ;)

hey guys my room is 11' x 17' , we will be puting it on the 11' wall, what set should I go for.60" is rather small for your room...you better rob a bank and go for the 70" monster. :eek: I sat 14' away from a 61" and after a couple of weeks it seem to get smaller and smaller.

60" is rather small for your room...you better rob a bank and go for the 70" monster. :eek: I sat 14' away from a 61" and after a couple of weeks it seem to get smaller and smaller.


I have a dual system where I can drop a 119" front projector screen in front of my 60" GWIII. I'm at 13'

You'd be surprised. What started off looking like a monster 119" screen, after a while seems smaller. The most noticable difference is when you first pull the front projector down in front of the TV. After a few minutes, it just doesn't seem that large.

This does bring up an interesting question. If you can exclude that period when the new set seems larger, what size would be most appropriate. Is it really as much a matter of personal taste or perhaps visual acuity??

I'm familiar with the THX viewing angle stuff, so, no need to post about that.

yah I think I will go with the 60" sounds good to me.

I'm still naming my dogs after you (pronunciation be damned!).

Jason

How is that On Topic unless the second dog is called SXRD???

I'd much rather spend a bit more and end up with something that I really like than to save a few bucks and wish within a couple of weeks or months that I had gone for the better product.

Jason

How is that On Topic unless the second dog is called SXRD???
That's not a bad idea...:D And your feelings probably won't be hurt by me not naming the second dog after you, because you gave me the new name! Now, do I go with Woj or Tek for dog one? :p

Jason

Now, do I go with Woj or Tek for dog one? :p

Jason


Definitely Tek because it is somewhat on topic. :)

Anyway, over and out, because now I am guilty of what I am preaching against.

Have a nice thread.

For anyone who hasn't had a chance to look at the pdf file on this set, page 84 shows where you can correct the gains and bias to red green blue. In other words, you don't have to go into the service menu for gray scale calibration.

Also on page 84 is some information about "Color Corrector". It says that it is to make the colors more vivid." This could mean a couple of things. Since you also have a color intensity adjustment elsewhere, I'm just wondering if "Color Corrector" is intended to adjust the "red push" that Sony tends to overdo. The options are "High, Low, and Off"

Does anyone have any insight into what "Color Corrector" is for? Has it appeared on any of the other Sony sets??

P.S. On page 85, it looks like "Picture" is to adjust contrast. Is this a departure of where we usually set whites?? Well, let me go a little further. Elsewhere in the manual it appears that its really to adjust contrast and not the just the detail in the whites.

For anyone who hasn't had a chance to look at the pdf file on this set, page 84 shows where you can correct the gains and bias to red green blue. In other words, you don't have to go into the service menu for gray scale calibration.

Also on page 84 is some information about "Color Corrector". It says that it is to make the colors more vivid." This could mean a couple of things. Since you also have a color intensity adjustment elsewhere, I'm just wondering if "Color Corrector" is intended to adjust the "red push" that Sony tends to overdo. The options are "High, Low, and Off"

Does anyone have any insight into what "Color Corrector" is for? Has it appeared on any of the other Sony sets??

P.S. On page 85, it looks like "Picture" is to adjust contrast. Is this a departure of where we usually set whites??
All of these controls are exactly like the current XS (GWIV) series of LCD RPs. One thing to know is that the User Menu adjustments for correcting gain/bais don't have as much range as the Service Menu adjustments of the same thing. (The ISF calibrator I hired for my XS tried the User Menu version but had to go into the Service Menu anyway because of this.)

-Terry

Definitely Tek because it is somewhat on topic. :)
And easier to pronounce...:D Enjoy!

Jason

All of these controls are exactly like the current XS (GWIV) series of LCD RPs. One thing to know is that the User Menu adjustments for correcting gain/bais don't have as much range as the Service Menu adjustments of the same thing. (The ISF calibrator I hired for my XS tried the User Menu version but had to go into the Service Menu anyway because of this.)

-Terry
Good to know. I wonder how many SXRD owners are going to go the ISF calibrator route instead of Avia of DVE. I'm hoping that these sets don't need a whole heck of a lot of tweaking, but it's helpful to know that the controls seem the same as the XS line.

Jason

All of these controls are exactly like the current XS (GWIV) series of LCD RPs. One thing to know is that the User Menu adjustments for correcting gain/bais don't have as much range as the Service Menu adjustments of the same thing. (The ISF calibrator I hired for my XS tried the User Menu version but had to go into the Service Menu anyway because of this.)

-Terry


Terry, talk to me about adjustments to red push via user menu. Is it there or do you have to go into the service menu and change Axis and/or the values that makes up each of the 4 Axises.

How is that On Topic unless the second dog is called SXRD???Name one dog Essex and the other Ardie :D

Get it Essex Ardie.... SXRD

Whoa man, I kill myself... yuk, yuk, yuk, :rolleyes:


I promise not to do that anymore.

:D:D:D Now quit trying to derail the thread...:p

Good to know. I wonder how many SXRD owners are going to go the ISF calibrator route instead of Avia of DVE. I'm hoping that these sets don't need a whole heck of a lot of tweaking, but it's helpful to know that the controls seem the same as the XS line.

JasonI'm going to use DVE as soon as I get it. As for ISF, I might do it after a few months if if I can find a local calibrator with some experience on the new SXRD sets. I'd rather let somebody else pay for the training.

I'd rather let somebody else pay for the training.
Yeah, not really the kind of thing where you want to be the guinea pig. We've got Avia, which I'll use, but we'd also consider having it calibrated a few months down the line. Our room conditions are anything but optimal, so I don't really know what extra performance I'd eek out of the set by ISF'ing it.

Jason

Terry, talk to me about adjustments to red push via user menu. Is it there or do you have to go into the service menu and change Axis and/or the values that makes up each of the 4 Axises.
First off... seems like "color corrector" sounds a lot like "live color" on the GWIV set (which, of course, is different language, but seems to be the same control.) In the GWIV manual (for the XS), it is to increase the Blue and Green (which, of course, compensates for "red push".)

In the service menu, there is an AXIS control that I remember the calibrator adjusting... and also individual Red Green Blue "DRV" controls and Red Green Blue "CUT" controls... (6 controls in all)... that he adjusted.

Those were under the DCP-ADJ1 section of the Service Menu settings.

I wonder if the SXRD Service Menu will be different. (My wild guess is that they would be different.) It seems that GWIII and GWIV were similar, but I remember reading somewhere on AVS that GWV sets were different.

-Terry