UPDATE of all current info (courtesy of Univited Guest)

Since info on these SXRD models is so spread out in this thread, here's a recap based on everyone's comments so far. Based on my sources, this information should be correct, but you can never be 100% sure until you open the box.

50" KDS-R50XBR1 MSRP: $3999
60" KDS-R60XBR1 MSRP: $4999

Features:
- 3 SXRD image panels (1920 x 1080 pixels each)
- Cinema black Pro with Advanced Iris dynamic iris mode
- Wega Engine HD video processing
- Digital Reality Creation MultiFunction V2 upconversion
- Twin-View Picture-in-Picture (split screen)
- picture settings memory for each video input
- non-detachable side speakers (15 watts x 2)

Connections:
- 3 composite video (2 rear, 1 front)
- 3 S-video (2 rear, 1 front)
- 2 component video
- 2 HDMI (one with audio jacks)
- 3 i.LINK ports (2 rear, 1 front)
- PC input
- 2 RF inputs (1 Antenna, 1 Cable)
- Memory Stick slot

Dimensions & weight
KDS-R50XBR1: 57-1/4"W x 34"H x 18-7/8"D; 94.8 lbs.
KDS-R60XBR1: 66"W x 39-3/4"H x 20-1/4"D; 112.5 lbs.

Notes
i.LINK ports appear to be HD-compatible like those on the Qualia 006. In the "i.LINK Setup" description, the example shows a JVC D-VHS deck as the source.

As you may have gathered from some comments about the A10 Grand Wegas, there are two parts to Cinema Black Pro. First, there's a global iris adjustment with, I think 4 positions, that's designed to compensate for various lighting conditions in your room. The separate Advanced Iris "dynamic iris" option is one of several video adjustments that are only available in the "Pro" picture mode.

Hope this is useful. To those folks who had to scratch the SXRDs off their lists due to the side speakers: my sympathies. I was surprised, too. To everyone else who's still considering the 50" or 60": I'm still convinced the picture quality will be worth waiting for.

5k for a 60" model and 14k for a 70" model?

How is Sony going to swing that one?

The other relevant story on this issue.....thanks to EZucker...


Sony hiring to build smaller SXRDs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sony plans to hire 1,000
By James Pletcher Jr., Herald-Standard
06/02/2005

Increased sales of its Wega television, a new TV line to be introduced this fall and other factors are the reasons behind Sony's recent announcement that it will hire 1,000 permanent and seasonal workers at its New Stanton factory.
....
Sony will begin producing its new proprietary SXRD (Silicon X-tal Reflective Display) televisions this fall.

"In layman's terms, this is a pure high-definition television, which gives more lines of resolution vertically and horizontally across the screen. It triples the number of pixels and provides much better contrast. The picture actually has some depth and almost looks three-dimensional,'' he said.

Sony is producing SXRDs in Japan for the eastern market, and the New Stanton plant will be the only Sony factory in North America manufacturing the sets, Koff said.

"I'm not sure of the screen sizes, but believe there will be a 50-, 60- and possibly a 70-inch version that we will be making here,'' he said.

"We are already building five new production lines for the SXRDs. In fact, we started that yesterday (Tuesday). There are new jigs and things like that we need to install for the manufacturing process, but the manufacturing process will not be vastly different from making the LCD (liquid crystal display) televisions we have now.''

Sony's New Stanton facility, Koff added, has already ceased producing the 7-inch cathode ray tubes (CRTs) that went into its picture-tube-based rear projection television set.

http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/...id=480247&rfi=6

or

http://*******.com/92b2w

Evan Zucker
San Diego, California

5k for a 60" model and 14k for a 70" model?

How is Sony going to swing that one?


I am pretty sure these smaller ones wont be "Qualia's"...

I know they have in other technologies, but what about the upcoming KDS-R__A10 line... Has anybody seen a prototype of this SXRD family they are producing? Any of the trades shows, maybe? I'm very eager to get my hands/eyes on this technology.

Originally Posted by Lew Black:
>>More news from Sony. The 50" (and 60") SXRD models are real: KDSR50A10 $3,999.99 Nov. 05. KDSR60A10 $4,999.99 Oct. 05.

Do you have a link to where this information was posted?

-- EVAN

<5k for a 60" model and 14k for a 70" model?>

Probably 720p. The Qualia 006 is 1080p.

5k for a 60" model and 14k for a 70" model?

How is Sony going to swing that one?

When this story came out a few weeks ago, the WSJ mentioned that Sony was planning on dropping prices on existing sets when the new SXRD were introduced. The 70" 006 wasn't mentioned specifically but it would make sense (IMO) to narrow such a huge price gap. Either that or they just don't care about 006 mass consumption (sales have been weak so far, only a few thousand) and will leave it where it is.

<5k for a 60" model and 14k for a 70" model?>

Probably 720p. The Qualia 006 is 1080p.SXRD is and has always been 1920x1080 or 1080p.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200302/03-008E/

<SXRD is and has always been 1920x1080 or 1080p.>

SXRD is a technology - basically LCOS - and resolution can be tailored to the needs of the manufacturer - just like LCD. You can be sure Sony is not going to cannibalize its Qualia line by offering 1080p units at $4k and $5k pricepoints.

Sony's marketing strategy for SXRD has always been that it is "real" HD, ie 1920x1080. They have stated publicly that you will see higher res in the future, but not lower. Selling a 720p would destroy a marketing campaing they have spent a year, and millions of $ creating.

Qualia is Sony's statement brand. there is a $4K 2 megapixel camera in the line as well as a $10k 34" direct view TV. The fact that you can buy a $500 6 megapixel camera from Sony is not impacting Qualia.

<Qualia is Sony's statement brand>

Qualia is a product, SXRD is a technology. Qualia may well be 1080p and above, but I don't remember Sony publically committing themselves not to offer lower-resolution SXRD chips in other products. There is room for both 1080p and 720p devices there.

At this point these discussions are moot point, as we will have to wait for the official info.

I'm all for 1080p (and 4320p for that matter):

SXRD what built straight into 1080p

But they could create one for 720p, but I know sony was trying to mass produce teh sxrd chip to bring the price down.

Originally Posted by Lew Black
More news from Sony. The 50" (and 60") SXRD models are real: KDSR50A10 $3,999.99 Nov. 05. KDSR60A10 $4,999.99 Oct. 05.
....


Not that I have any new info, but figured its time for its own thread.

Hey GB where did you get the models and pricing info. Do you have a link.

Hey GB where did you get the models and pricing info. Do you have a link.

Lew Black posted this back in the WEGA thread, I pulled it out from there..........I got no personal knowledge on it. :(

<5k for a 60" model and 14k for a 70" model?>

Probably 720p. The Qualia 006 is 1080p.

Within the news article posted by GBfreek, it states, " . . . this is a pure high-definition television, which gives more lines of resolution vertically and horizontally across the screen. It triples the number of pixels and provides much better contrast."

Doesn't seem to me that Sony could provide improvements above and stick with 720p resolution.

Within the news article posted by GBfreek, it states, " . . . this is a pure high-definition television, which gives more lines of resolution vertically and horizontally across the screen. It triples the number of pixels and provides much better contrast."

Doesn't seem to me that Sony could provide improvements above and stick with 720p resolution.
They gave a paper about SXRD at SID (~2 weeks ago) in Boston, and they didn't talk about a new 720p SXRD chip, instead they talked about their new .61" 1920x1080 SXRD chip to be used in RPTV in the near future. They mentioned it had 5000:1 CR, and a fill rate of 90%.

They gave a paper about SXRD at SID (~2 weeks ago) in Boston, and they didn't talk about a new 720p SXRD chip, instead they talked about their new .61" 1920x1080 SXRD chip to be used in RPTV in the near future. They mentioned it had 5000:1 CR, and a fill rate of 90%.

I'm familair with most of those specs, but what is fill rate?

I'm familair with most of those specs, but what is fill rate?

Fill rate is the same thing as fill factor. It's the percentage of pixel area which passes light. It directly correlates with screen door effect. The higher the fill rate the smaller the black border around each pixel. For reference, good LCD microdisplay panels have a 60% fill rate.

Fill rate is the same thing as fill factor. It's the percentage of pixel area which passes light. It directly correlates with screen door effect. The higher the fill rate the smaller the black border around each pixel. For reference, good LCD microdisplay panels have a 60% fill rate.

Thanks for the explanation. That makes this new technology sound even better!

This sounds really exciting, something worth replacing my CRT with. Keep us posted.

Geeez, I was waiting for the new Sony 50" A10 model coming this summer and now I hear about SXRD. Now I have to put up with my 19" Sony until Christmas for this set.

HURRY UP SONY!!!

Another informative post from Lew we should probably add to this thread (corrected):

KDSR50A10 $3,999.99 Nov. 05, KDSR60A10 $4,999.99 Oct 05. HDTV monitor (3 SXRD/1920x1080), qualia006 pure red, high contrast ratio, film like reproduction, WEGA Engine HD (DRC MultiFunction V2), S-Master, HDMI, Audio Optical Out (Tos Link), PC Input (D-Sub 15 pin), MS Viewer, New Edge Design, WEGA GATE User Interface

[About his source]: As I have said earlier, I am passing on information that Sony has released to salespeople. They are helping us, as many systems are planned way ahead of time. They email us info and I am copying pertinant information. I probably should get an okay from our rep to do this, but I figure it is public information once they release it. What I have posted is all I have right now. Lew

What if the prices are really:

$6,999 for the 50" and $8,999 for the 60"?

Anyways, the prices will come down. Qualia is so highly priced due to the nature of the units being hand built in Japan and available in very limited quantities.

When you start running sets down assembly lines in the U.S., you are making probably hundreds of thousands, not thousands.

If Sony has found a way to mass produce SXRD panels with quality in tact, the prices will come down significantly.

Also, from Beefchopper (emphasis mine):

I have no idea if this is accurate but for what it's worth, I was told by a major Sony dealer that they will be coming out with a "50 inch SXRD Grand Wega" rear projection this year at an expected list price of $3999. He said it is SXRD but not a Qualia and the model number will be KDSR50A10.

[About his source:] I don't think it's right for me to mention the guy's name unless he does so himself. He's got a large custom design and installation firm (CEDIA member) and he put it in the specs for a job he'll be doing for me in the late fall. I thought he must have meant the new A10 50" LCD but when I asked him if he was sure he hadn't made an error in the description he said he was positive it was a SXRD and has already seen a demo of the TV. He said the only thing they would tell him about it was it wouldn't be called a Qualia but he didn't know what that meant as far as missing features or degraded quality.

Yup, I'm looking for a 60" model.

From the new Grand Vega thread:

:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tecumseh
Just who is this "Lew"?
Deep Throat has been identified, what do we know about the man named Lew and who are his sources exactly?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm


Bob Woodward will release my identity when I die..... :)

Actually I will identify myself to anyone in the Denver area who would like to come do business with me!! Lew

I very much doubt there's even a 720p SXRD being designed at this point. It's such a small chip and fabbing even one version is challenging enough.

Also, at those prices they have to have 1080p. 50-inch DLP is headed for the low $2000s and 60-inch for something in the $3K range. At $4K and $5K, they are going to have enough trouble selling these at all outside our geek-set, videophile realms.

This is very exciting news, but really, not even a little surprising. I believe, in fact, that I reported something similar around CES in January. In fact, my sources in 2004 telegraphed the jumbo RPTV at $10Kish and these sets in this timeframe even then.

[QUOTE=rogo]I very much doubt there's even a 720p SXRD being designed at this point. It's such a small chip and fabbing even one version is challenging enough.

Also, at those prices they have to have 1080p. 50-inch DLP is headed for the low $2000s and 60-inch for something in the $3K range. At $4K and $5K, they are going to have enough trouble selling these at all outside our geek-set, videophile realms.
QUOTE]

I would agree that it would make no sense for Sony to introduce a 720P version. If the story is true about the 50" and 60" sets, then I would expect that they would be using their .6-inch 1080P panel they disclosed at SID a few weeks ago. They are simply leveraging LCOS's ability to scale down better than other technologies.

Furthermore, everything else Sony seems to be doing lately, including the announcement of the Playstation 3 supporting 1080P points to Sony focusing on 1080.

You have to expect that Sony does not want to only be in the ultra high end. The Qualia line appears to be there to establish Sony as a leader and to introduce new technology, but they can't afford to only be in the Qualia line. They have to be competitive. It would make no business sense to "price protect" the Qualia line by pricing their other products uncompetitively. The Qualia line is more there to market the rest of the Sony line.

At $4K for 50" and $5K for 60" they are very competitive to the disclosed prices for other 1080P sets this year. They can market as being a "True" 1080P versus wobble mirror 1080P and they won't have the rainbow effect.

I think the handwriting is on the wall that whether people "need" it or not, almost everything in a few years will be 1080P. There are only 3 networks (ABC, ESPN, and FOX) that support 720P and everyone else is at 1080 (all be it 1080i). With the scaling ability of LCOS I would expect in a few years there will be next to no difference in cost to make a 1080P versus a 720P set. This will not be as true with other technologies, so LCOS is at a competitive advantage at the higher resolution which come back to why it is most likely that Sony will be at 1080P or higher for all their LCOS developments.

I would have to agree with Rogo.

To some extent, Sony introducing these sets in the fall is more like "keeping up with the competition". Mitsubishi, Toshiba, Hitachi, etc. are all rolling out 1080p DLPs in that timeframe at price points similar to the rumored Sony sets. Samsung currently sells a 1080p LCD panel at $5,000.

While Sony can continue to claim their technology is better, they won't sell any sets if they don't get them into the showroom. My guess, based on the recent article about the Sony factory in PA setting up 5 production lines for SXRD, is that they are finally going mass production this fall. Sony has even said themselves that they want SXRD to be the technology in all their projection sets in the future.

Hopefully pictures of these two TVs will be available soon.

A couple of questions (which I'm not sure anyone can answer yet):
1.)is Sony dropping the XBR designation then? I would have thought that the SXRD would hit the XBR line after tricking down from the Qualia.

2.)Seems like the SXRD chips in these TVs are different from the one in the Qualia. What *might* that mean in terms of quality? (I'm not real techincal when it comes to .61", what does this imply for quality)

Regards,
Dan

2.)Seems like the SXRD chips in these TVs are different from the one in the Qualia. What *might* that mean in terms of quality? (I'm not real techincal when it comes to .61", what does this imply for quality)

Regards,
Dan
It doesn't mean a lot other than the chips are smaller and should be cheaper to make, and will need a less expensive optics engine to go with them.

The only real different from a performance point is the higher CR and the slightly lower fill factor / aperture ratio.

Hopefully pictures of these two TVs will be available soon.

A couple of questions (which I'm not sure anyone can answer yet):
1.)is Sony dropping the XBR designation then? I would have thought that the SXRD would hit the XBR line after tricking down from the Qualia.

2.)Seems like the SXRD chips in these TVs are different from the one in the Qualia. What *might* that mean in terms of quality? (I'm not real techincal when it comes to .61", what does this imply for quality)

Regards,
Dan

The smaller chips should be a bit less light efficient due to "etendue," something on the order of about 20% to 30% less efficient based on the sizes of their original and a .6-inch die. The amount is a function of their illumination system including the lamp, but generally a smaller die will be less light efficient (but not by as much as the area reduction). Still a 3 panel LCOS at .6 inches should be as light efficient as a .8-inch single chip DLP (including the polarized light issues for LCOS) and much more light efficient than a .55-inch wobble mirror 720P DLP (a lot depends on the exact size and illumination systems).

The optics should be significantly cheaper in the long run (once ramped to production) with the smaller die since they will require much less glass.

I would think that making the LCOS devices should be optically easier/higher-yielding/better-quality with the smaller device. So in the long run the plusses outweight the minuses. Note that other LCOS devices are in the .7-inch range our about half way between Sony's Qualia 006 and the disclosed .6-inch panel.

I expect that in the next two years, the battle for rear projection will be between larger single chip DLP's with wobble mirrors and smaller 3-Chip LCOS displays. I think transmissive HTPS will loose out due to it scaling problems and the resultant cost of the optics to support the larger panel sizes. If LCOS companies do their jobs right, they will be be able to deliver 1080P displays at about the same cost as they can do 720P displays. They should be very competitive with DLP and will not have the Rainbow Effect and have "true" 1080P resolution (no wobble mirror). Anyway, the next couple of years look to be interesting.

I expect that in the next two years, the battle for rear projection will be between larger single chip DLP's with wobble mirrors and smaller 3-Chip LCOS displays. I think transmissive HTPS will loose out due to it scaling problems and the resultant cost of the optics to support the larger panel sizes. If LCOS companies do their jobs right, they will be be able to deliver 1080P displays at about the same cost as they can do 720P displays. They should be very competitive with DLP and will not have the Rainbow Effect and have "true" 1080P resolution (no wobble mirror). Anyway, the next couple of years look to be interesting.

What about the convergence errors inherent in a 3-chip design? A single chip dlp has none of this, but does have the rainbow problem (at least for some people). Seems like there is a plus/minus for each technology.

"I think transmissive HTPS will loose out due to it scaling problems and the resultant cost of the optics to support the larger panel sizes."

Sony and Epson sure seem to beg to differ. Tremendous innovation in HTPS LCD is coming soon.

What about the convergence errors inherent in a 3-chip design? A single chip dlp has none of this, but does have the rainbow problem (at least for some people). Seems like there is a plus/minus for each technology.
Sony seems to be able to nail it pretty accurately on their RP LCD TVs, so I don't think the SXRD chips will be any more problematic.

Can someone please post a link or fill me in on the drawbacks of LCOS technology? I'm aware of the advantages and drawbacks of DLP and LCD (contrast and refresh rates) but not very familiar with LCOS. I've heard other companies have tried LCOS but were unsuccessful.

Thanks for any input.

What about the convergence errors inherent in a 3-chip design? A single chip dlp has none of this, but does have the rainbow problem (at least for some people). Seems like there is a plus/minus for each technology.

Convergence with microdisplays is a solved problem. The devices are glued in place. It can be done with cheap labor and once glued, it does not shift. It is not like the problems with big bulky RP CRT's.

The issue is the cost of the color splitting and re-combining optics but those are coming down with volume. By going to .6-inch panels, the cost of the optics will be driven down further.

"I think transmissive HTPS will loose out due to it scaling problems and the resultant cost of the optics to support the larger panel sizes."

Sony and Epson sure seem to beg to differ. Tremendous innovation in HTPS LCD is coming soon.

Sony seems to be advancing on both HTPS and LCOS but appears to prefer LCOS for the future. They seem to be focused on LCOS for 1080P and above resolutions.

Epson is certainly focused on HTPS and had a nice looking 1080P display at CES. But they are at about a 50% aperture with a .9-inch panel. I wouldn't be surprise to see them enter into LCOS.

Convergence with microdisplays is a solved problem. The devices are glued in place. It can be done with cheap labor and once glued, it does not shift. It is not like the problems with big bulky RP CRT's.

The issue is the cost of the color splitting and re-combining optics but those are coming down with volume. By going to .6-inch panels, the cost of the optics will be driven down further.

I'm sure you know more about this that I do. I was only thinking about some of the reports I've seen about the JVC dila's having such problems.

so what features will Sony omit in these new SXRD tv's that are currently found in the qualia 006 ? I'm sure they'd omit some to justify the price difference between 5-6k and 14k

so what features will Sony omit in these new SXRD tv's that are currently found in the qualia 006 ? I'm sure they'd omit some to justify the price difference between 5-6k and 14k From the feature list Lew Black posted there was no i.Link or 1394 Firewire connection. But these are prelimimary.

Folks, I missed something at the introduction to the new Grand Wegas. (This is a 70 page Adobe document that covers the phasing in of new Sony products). Hope this helps a bit more. Notice that the new SXRD sets are considered Grand Wegas. Lew

Wega Gate
Cinema Black Pro
PAP
MS Playback
PC Input
HDMI x2
TOS Link
Dolby Digital
TruSurround XT
Steady Sound
WEGA Engine HD
132W Lamp
0.61” 3 SXRD
ATSC/POD
Analog TN x2
SXRD
50”/60”


The layout was weird so this is the best I can do with cut and paste.

Can someone please post a link or fill me in on the drawbacks of LCOS technology? I'm aware of the advantages and drawbacks of DLP and LCD (contrast and refresh rates) but not very familiar with LCOS. I've heard other companies have tried LCOS but were unsuccessful.

Thanks for any input.

Anyone?

Anyone?

I don't think we can give you a consistant answer for different attempts at this technology. The biggest issue has been yield in manufacturing the chips. Too many chips were defective. The JVC units have poor black level, great brightness, but this could be from using too high wattage a bulb. The Sony Qualia has excellent blacks, better than any other digital set I have seen. They may be doing something different in their LCOS implimentation. We shall see what these new sets look like this fall. I expect to see good black levels, hopefully close to the Qualia. Lew

I don't think we can give you a consistant answer for different attempts at this technology. The biggest issue has been yield in manufacturing the chips. Too many chips were defective. The JVC units have poor black level, great brightness, but this could be from using too high wattage a bulb. The Sony Qualia has excellent blacks, better than any other digital set I have seen. They may be doing something different in their LCOS implimentation. We shall see what these new sets look like this fall. I expect to see good black levels, hopefully close to the Qualia. Lew


The JVC 1080P's black levels weren't far off the Qualia's at the CES, but we'll have to wait to see the production models this fall....

I don't think we can give you a consistant answer for different attempts at this technology. The biggest issue has been yield in manufacturing the chips. Too many chips were defective. The JVC units have poor black level, great brightness, but this could be from using too high wattage a bulb. The Sony Qualia has excellent blacks, better than any other digital set I have seen. They may be doing something different in their LCOS implimentation. We shall see what these new sets look like this fall. I expect to see good black levels, hopefully close to the Qualia. Lew


Would it be a stretch to say we might see better blacks than the Qualia? When describing the chips that will be used in the new sets it listed a higher CR than the Qualia but a slightly less fill factor. If you also look at the sets of features it has, cinema black pro is listed. Could they be using a Iris in these new sets like the new 3LCD will have. I am hoping for this and HDMI inputs that will accept 1080p for blue ray/PS3. If so, then this will be the TV I purchase in October. Lets hope.

The JVC 1080P's black levels weren't far off the Qualia's at the CES, but we'll have to wait to see the production models this fall....

Good point. All of the 1080p sets are claiming better black levels. Lew

Would it be a stretch to say we might see better blacks than the Qualia? When describing the chips that will be used in the new sets it listed a higher CR than the Qualia but a slightly less fill factor. If you also look at the sets of features it has, cinema black pro is listed. Could they be using a Iris in these new sets like the new 3LCD will have. I am hoping for this and HDMI inputs that will accept 1080p for blue ray/PS3. If so, then this will be the TV I purchase in October. Lets hope.

I hope you are right, though I sure like the idea of better blacks through better basic performance of the chips. The auto iris will help in all dark or all light scenes, but will still have trouble in high contrast scenes. Lew

I hope you are right, though I sure like the idea of better blacks through better basic performance of the chips. The auto iris will help in all dark or all light scenes, but will still have trouble in high contrast scenes. Lew
This not quite accurate. The auto irises do not operate in bright scenes, nor do they have trouble in high contrast scenes. The iris only activates in dark scenes, to lower the black floor, and extend the dynamic range.

They can't increase the intrascene CR beyond that of the native device, but for the current generation of pjs, the limiting factor for intrascene CR will be the room, and not the device.

As anyone who has seen the Sony HS51 will agree, it is extremely effective.

Would it be a stretch to say we might see better blacks than the Qualia?


We already have, and a better contrast ratio (3500:1) and response time (4ms).

http://gom5.com/hdtv.htm

We already have, and a better contrast ratio (3500:1) and response time (4ms).

http://gom5.com/hdtv.htm
Please tell me that "TV GUIDE" is just a sticker that comes off. :eek:

Are there hard numbers for $$$ and availability on the LG LCoS yet?

So the main drawback of LCOS technology has been contrast? What about refresh rates or burn in?

As is the case with DLPs, LCOS TVs suffer no burn-in...

As for response times:

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/3947

Sony's SXRD liquid crystal materials utilize an innovative molecular material, which is vertically aligned to the cell substrate, in contrast to the twisted Nematic liquid crystal commonly found in other projection devices. According to Baxter, this new material ensures improved optical performance and enhanced driveability even in such a thin cell gap. The unique combination of the new material and the thin cell gap results in exceptional black level performance, in addition to a rapid response time of less than five milliseconds. This is nearly a three-fold increase over conventional projector contrast levels.


Really, LCOS is a very nice tech.....the problem is, it is newer (or should I say, less mature) than someting like DLP so they are are further down the improvements curve on stuff like contrast ratio (compared to DLPs)...

The biggest issue with LCOS displays has been figuring out how the hell to manufacture them(and many have tried).....

The only onse who seem to have a good handle on LCOS manufacturing issues are JVC and Sony....

Ok, so besides 1080p, what picture benifit would these LCOS sets have over sony's new A10 models coming out this summer?

We already have, and a better contrast ratio (3500:1) and response time (4ms).

http://gom5.com/hdtv.htm
Sony's new SXRD chips at 5,000:1 PCR have already bettered that CR mark.

Technology moves on!

If these new SXRD tv's have the same PQ as the Qualia, I'll definitely be buying a 60" one this fall/winter. Then I'll just have to figure out how to get rid of the 300lb Sony 40" XBR beast in my living room....

This not quite accurate. The auto irises do not operate in bright scenes, nor do they have trouble in high contrast scenes. The iris only activates in dark scenes, to lower the black floor, and extend the dynamic range.

They can't increase the intrascene CR beyond that of the native device, but for the current generation of pjs, the limiting factor for intrascene CR will be the room, and not the device.

As anyone who has seen the Sony HS51 will agree, it is extremely effective.

You are correct. I meant to say that the iris can't help the LCD technology in high contrast scenes. For me, this is one of the situations where I find LCD lacking. You have a brunette who is slightly shaded in a well lit scene and don't see individual hairs on his/her head. The iris won't do anything for this problem. I have seen the HS51 and it does wonderful things. I have high hopes for the A10 series, but find the new SXRD sets more intriguing because the technology has inherently better blacks and contrast, not because they will use the auto iris. Lew

Sony's new SXRD chips at 5,000:1 PCR have already bettered that CR mark.

Technology moves on!

You can't take these C/R figures seriously. They are based on full on, full off. Any technology that is transmissive, like LCD, lets light through when it is on, but gives great black when it is off :). DLP suffers from internal light reflections. LCOS must reflect some light where we are supposed to have perfect black when it is on. Turn it off and you have a much darker screen.

At Runco's website they list an 1800/1 C/R for full on-off on one of their DLP projectors. They also use a home theater spec that is honest and depends on the projector being calibrated to 6500 degrees K. The projector has to be on for the test. Contrast ratio measured this way:156/1. Refreshing (pun intended) to have such honesty in a spec.

So, if anyone takes these specs seriously I have this dandy, 4,000 watt receiver I will sell you for just $199 ;) Lew

I have this dandy, 4,000 watt receiver I will sell you for just $199 ;) Lew



Are we talking used or new? 5.1 or 7.1, and does it have any HDMI inputs. This might be just what I was looking for. PM with details :cool:

Sony's new SXRD chips at 5,000:1 PCR have already bettered that CR mark.I'm not sure if that other number was system on/off CR or chip, but we should be careful not to confuse the two. Of course, if Sony uses a dynamic iris they can get higher than their chip CR, but otherwise it will definitely be lower.

You can't take these C/R figures seriously.
If you don't understand how they relate to real world video then you can't, but if you do understand then you can.


They are based on full on, full off.
For systems they are based on 100 IRE and 0 (or 7.5) IRE. Off does not mean the projector is turned off, or there wouldn't even be any reason for the spec since it would basically be infinite:1 in all cases.


Any technology that is transmissive, like LCD, lets light through when it is on, but gives great black when it is off :). DLP suffers from internal light reflections. LCOS must reflect some light where we are supposed to have perfect black when it is on. Turn it off and you have a much darker screen.
And no matter what technology it is, if you know the white level then the on/off CR gives you the absolute black level exactly (simple math). Talking about why it is at that level is a different matter, since you already have the number at that point.


At Runco's website they list an 1800/1 C/R for full on-off on one of their DLP projectors. They also use a home theater spec that is honest and depends on the projector being calibrated to 6500 degrees K. The projector has to be on for the test. Contrast ratio measured this way:156/1. Refreshing (pun intended) to have such honesty in a spec.
People seem to get pretty confused about contrast ratio. Think of it like speed (MPH). You can have top speed through cones and top speed in a straight line. They are both speed, but neither one is fake. Just like 0-60 and 0-100 times are both times, but it doesn't mean that one is fake. And just like neither on/off CR or ANSI CR is fake. They both help you determine what instantaneous CRs you will get across the range of images (along with the blackout level) and either one can be the weak link in any one image. Here (http://home1.gte.net/res18h39/contrast.htm) is a tool for seeing the instantaneous CRs that result from different on/off and ANSI CRs (along with room reflections) for different checkerboard levels (the dark always being video 16). I discussed this here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=541091). If people want to see how different on/offs effect the instantaneous CRs with checkerboards like 10/0 IRE and 5/0 IRE (relating to dark scenes), then they can just plug in different on/off CRs and see.


So, if anyone takes these specs seriously I have this dandy, 4,000 watt receiver I will sell you for just $199 ;) LewIf you mean because they exaggerate their numbers (just like exaggerating lumens) then I understand, but if you mean that on/off CR is not real and doesn't relate to real world video, then you might want to read up some more.

--Darin

Sony seems to be advancing on both HTPS and LCOS but appears to prefer LCOS for the future. They seem to be focused on LCOS for 1080P and above resolutions.

Epson is certainly focused on HTPS and had a nice looking 1080P display at CES. But they are at about a 50% aperture with a .9-inch panel. I wouldn't be surprise to see them enter into LCOS.

Why did Sony announce a whole new generation of HTPS parts with record performance then? They are clearly committed to both, one cheaper than the other.

Why does everyone at AVS think everything is mutually exclusive? Samsung makes LCD >>and<< plasma >>and<< is commited to DLP.

...Any technology that is transmissive, like LCD, lets light through when it is on, but gives great black when it is off :). DLP suffers from internal light reflections. LCOS must reflect some light where we are supposed to have perfect black when it is on. Turn it off and you have a much darker screen.

DLP may have internal light reflections but from what I understand LCOS is not better. The current JVCs black levels are inferior to the HD2+ DLPs. And while I haven't seen the Qualia or the unreleased Sonys Sxrds, With manurfacturers listing 5000:1 as the contrast ratio I would expect Sxrd and the new 1080DLPs to have similar black levels. I guess we'll have to wait about 4 months to find out :( .

...So, if anyone takes these specs seriously I have this dandy, 4,000 watt receiver I will sell you for just $199 ;) Lew

Some manufacturers really overdoit with specs. You know the old Kraco car amps that put out 1000 watts of distortion :D . But judging from the past, the 61" Samsung HLN had a contrast ratio of 1000:1 or 1500:1(can't remember which) whereas most 60" HD2+ DLPs have a contrast ration of about 2000:1-2500:1 and you can tell a major difference in brightness and black levels. Though this number doesn't tell it all, it is the best guideline to give us a general idea of what what to eexpect from black/white levels from TVs not yet released.

Please tell me that "TV GUIDE" is just a sticker that comes off. :eek:

Are there hard numbers for $$$ and availability on the LG LCoS yet?

That is the LG's current 62" DLP chassis, it is just a pre-production LCOS test unit. The 62" and 71" LCOS sets will have a sleeker design.

That is the LG's current 62" DLP chassis, it is just a pre-production LCOS test unit. The 62" and 71" LCOS sets will have a sleeker design.
sycore, do you know where the speakers will be located on the LG LCOS sets?

DLP may have internal light reflections but from what I understand LCOS is not better. The current JVCs black levels are inferior to the HD2+ DLPs. And while I haven't seen the Qualia or the unreleased Sonys Sxrds, With manurfacturers listing 5000:1 as the contrast ratio I would expect Sxrd and the new 1080DLPs to have similar black levels. I guess we'll have to wait about 4 months to find out :( .
JVC's DILA implementation is pretty close to piss poor.

They can't make their chips cheap enough, so they skimped and tried to cut cost at nearly every other aspect of the design to compete with DLPs on price. They used cheap optics (all the chromatic abberation and convergence problems reported). They used a cheap analog section. The set has a lot of internal reflections.

So, it's a bit of a misnomer to proclaim LCOS is not better simply because JVC couldn't make a good one at the same price as a DLP.

Will the new SXRD chip also be used in a 70" model or would the reduced fill factor be a problem in the larger size? Any news on the timetable for a non-Qualia 70" or are they more likely to reduce the price of the current model?

Any word on whether the sets will be able to accept 1080p signals?

Ok, so besides 1080p, what picture benifit would these LCOS sets have over sony's new A10 models coming out this summer?

Well, the A10 models are LCDs..

These new SXRDs should have a 90% fill rate (compared to ~60% with LCDs, IIRC) so you are going to get much smaller interpixel gaps/screen door with LCOS/SXRD compared to the A10s....of all the microdisplay tech currently out there (LCD/DLP/LCOS) LCOS have the smallest interpixel gaps of them all...

I am not sure how fast the response times are on the A10 LCDs but the <5ms respone time with SXRD might be another advantage....

Several Qualia 004/006 owners have raved about the shadow detail performance of their TVs so that (along with contrast ratio) might be another advantage....

I also believe SXRDs are notable for their color accuracy (wide gamut?) but how much of that is attributed to the Xenon bulbs used in the current Qualias and how much is attributed to the basic design of the SXRD technology is anyone's guess at this point...

One thing is for sure, these cheaper SXRDs will not use an expensive Xenon bulb so those lucious reds everybody raves about with the Qualias will probably be a distant memory....

LCOS is a much newer display technology compared to LCDs and even DLPs.....the trick has been getting decent blacks/CR performance and manufacturing the damn things ;)

Any word on whether the sets will be able to accept 1080p signals?

Well consider these facts:

The Qualia 004 R2 will accept a 1080p signal via HDMI...

The Sony PlayStation 3 will output 1080p via HDMI

These new SXRDs have dual HDMI ins (to match the dual HDMI out of a PS3)

IMO, there is no good reason to omit the abilty to accept 1080p signal on these sets. :)

Just to keep in mind with regards to the Xenon lamp comment about the "reds". The Qualia 006 uses a 200W UHP Lamp. Only the Qualia 004 uses a Xenon lamp.

I just wanted to add that for clarification.

Well, the A10 models are LCDs..Sony is not helping with the model numbers are they?

To clarify:

KDS-R50A10 1920 x 1080 SXRD
KDS-R60A10 1920 x 1080 SXRD

KDF-E55A20 1366 x 768 LCD
KDF-E60A20 1366 x 768 LCD

KDF-E42A10 1280 x 720 LCD
KDF-E50A10 1280 x 720 LCD

The Qualia 004 R2 will accept a 1080p signal via HDMI...


Both the Qualia 04 and the HS51 currently accept 1080p24sf which is ideal for film source content, and also happens to be a HDTV standard.

The rumored Qualia 004 R2 is said to accept 1080p60 input. Of course we will then anxiously await sources...

Could someone explain why a smaller chip requires less/ cheaper optics?

I also believe SXRDs are notable for their color accuracy (wide gamut?) but how much of that is attributed to the Xenon bulbs used in the current Qualias and how much is attributed to the basic design of the SXRD technology is anyone's guess at this point...



Could it be possible to swap one of these Xenon bulbs into the new SXRD's? Seems like once the original bulb burned out, this would be an easy swap?

If we are going to start guessing about bulbs and cost, I have to say that considering the tv's will cost around 5k USD, if they use the same qualia bulb it wont be all that out of place and if the color raves really are thanks to the bulb then I hope they leave it alone.

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=1001019&navigationPath=n32050n100052
Thats the CA site so I assume that to be CA dollar, so around $400USD seems fine to me. =)

Rogo, (MythBuster)

KDS-R50A10 1920 x 1080 SXRD
KDS-R60A10 1920 x 1080 SXRD

Do you think that these sets will actually make it to market by Oct/Nov, considering there is so little info on them right now?

Will they have a 1080p/60 input?

Fact or Myth?
=======================================================

What was the real reason for the HDMI bottleneck with the new 1080p sets?

Some say 1080p is not in the HDMI spec, but it is as an option. So why did the manufacturers of the upcoming 1080p sets not exercise this option?

I have also heard that Silicon Image cut corners by meeting the barest requirements of the spec in their current HDMI chips. But if this is the case what HDMI chip is Sony using for the Qualia upgrades?

Others have mentioned that there are no 1080p sources, therefore no 1080p HDMI. This is complete bunk, the PC is a 1080p source with some 1080p content.

DVI can handle 1080p/60, but HDMI currently cannot. Does HDCP have anything to do with this? Is Hollywood slowing down the 1080p/60 approval process pending some new, more intrusive DRM?
(I do not understand the limitation when DVI and HDMI are so similar with the exception of HDCP and audio.)

Thanks,

J.T.

Others have mentioned that there are no 1080p sources, therefore no 1080p HDMI. This is complete bunk, the PC is a 1080p source with some 1080p content.

Not only that, but the PlayStation 3 was quoted by Sony to output 1080p games....so you could potentialy have some compelling 1920 x 1080 progressive content there too...

Also, BRD/HD-DVD movies (some? most? all?) wll also be sourced @ 1080p30 too so it it just a matter of deinerlacing 1080i or upscaling 720p, if this is what we are to be "stuck" with concerning BRD/HD-DVD player video ouputs...

BTW, how do the Sony DRC chips compare to the DCDi chips in the areas of scaling and de-interlacing???


Also, I read in another thread that Silicon Image are to release the Sil 1771/1772 HDMI 1.2 reciever/transmitter chips which have enough bandwidth(165Mhz, I believe?) for full 1080p/60fps

Could someone explain why a smaller chip requires less/ cheaper optics?
Because The physical lenses are smaller. Therefore they are easier to make and cost less.

Compare the lens of a small digital point and shoot (which uses a small chip) to a digital SLR's lenses (which uses a large chip). It's the same idea. Larger chips need larger lenses and optics.

All the talk about bulbs, I think everybody is missing the 132w lamp note in the preliminary specs we have. This is the same wattage bulb in the XS series.

Wega Gate
Cinema Black Pro
PAP
MS Playback
PC Input
HDMI x2
TOS Link
Dolby Digital
TruSurround XT
Steady Sound
WEGA Engine HD
132W Lamp
0.61” 3 SXRD
ATSC/POD
Analog TN x2
SXRD
50”/60”


There will be a lot of unhappy campers around here if you think we are getting a slightly smaller Qualia for $4k & $5k. Think enhanced XS series. Look at the specs above. No iLink (1394), 132w lamp (Q006 is 200w), what else is this missing from the Qualia?

At least the lamps will be cheaper to replace. Does the lamp really impact PQ that much? The greater wattage of the Qualia lamp may be due to it having about 30% more screen size to light up.

Well, the A10 models are LCDs..



I believe Sony denotes display technology with the model prefix, and features with the suffix. Thus, KP denotes rear projection CRT, KDF rear projection LCD, KDS rear projection SXRD, KV direct view CRT, KVL direct view LCD, KE/KDE Direct view plasma. Anything after the dash denotes size and featureset. Exceptions exist but this has been the rule.

At least the lamps will be cheaper to replace. Does the lamp really impact PQ that much? The greater wattage of the Qualia lamp may be due to it having about 30% more screen size to light up.

I doubt it. The 42we610, 50we610/655 and 60/70XBR950 use the same lamp (the 120 watt xl-2100).

This set doesn't have to live up to the Qualia. It only has to compete with other 1080p sets in the same price range. It should do so with no problem.

At least the lamps will be cheaper to replace. Does the lamp really impact PQ that much? The greater wattage of the Qualia lamp may be due to it having about 30% more screen size to light up.There are several factors that have to balance together. The brightness of the lamp will establish you maximum brightness that the TV could ever achieve. Then you subtract from that highest point for every item that gets put between you and the lamp. The SXRD chip loses a little light through reflection. Every optic lense and mirror, even the transmisivity of the screen being projected upon will subtract from the original brightest white-point. Too bright and you blow out the highlights and get grey blacks. Not bright enough and you get black crush and grey clouds.

All of these variables have to be balanced by the engineers developing the television to meet a price-point/feature-set established by a non-engineer bean counter. It's impossible for me to say how dramatic a lower wattage lamp effect will be, but you have the possibility of greater dynamic range (highlight to shadow) with a brighter light source coupled with an imager capable choking the light off when rendering darkness.

This set doesn't have to live up to the Qualia. It only has to compete with other 1080p sets in the same price range. It should do so with no problem.

Don't be so sure about that. I think the coming Sony SXRD's might have some trouble developing into anything but a niche market for this year, anyway. By late fall when all the manufacturer's 1080P DLP's, D-ILA's and LCOS lines are out competition for market share will be fierce. Street prices for 54"-58" 1080P sets will be well under 3K and 60"-64" models won't be very much over 3K. Sony will either have to drop their eventual street prices substantially from where they are anticipated to be or have a tremendous quality advantage over all other lines to become a mass market seller - -

"Does the lamp really impact PQ that much? "

Yes. The color spectrum coming from a lamp can be very different depending upon the lamp technology. The Xenon bulbs used in the Qualia can allow for the reproduction of colors a UHP bulb can't offer.

DLP units seem very sensitive to vertical viewing angle. Does anyone know how Sony SXRD does in that regard?

This sounds really exciting, something worth replacing my CRT with. Keep us posted.
While 1920*1080 LCOS is exciting remember the bait and switch tactic Sony played on the pricing of the Qualia 006. A price of $10K was widely spoke of, but then like magic it was released at $13K. Beware!
Will these new Sony set accepts the 1920*1080 output from the Sony Play Station 3 cell computer?

Will the new SXRD chip also be used in a 70" model or would the reduced fill factor be a problem in the larger size? Any news on the timetable for a non-Qualia 70" or are they more likely to reduce the price of the current model?




To add to your question, if someone was wanting a 70" set, how does the combined difference in die size and fill factor affect picture quality?

Rogo, (MythBuster)

KDS-R50A10 1920 x 1080 SXRD
KDS-R60A10 1920 x 1080 SXRD

Do you think that these sets will actually make it to market by Oct/Nov, considering there is so little info on them right now?

Will they have a 1080p/60 input?

Fact or Myth?
=======================================================

What was the real reason for the HDMI bottleneck with the new 1080p sets?

Some say 1080p is not in the HDMI spec, but it is as an option. So why did the manufacturers of the upcoming 1080p sets not exercise this option?

I have also heard that Silicon Image cut corners by meeting the barest requirements of the spec in their current HDMI chips. But if this is the case what HDMI chip is Sony using for the Qualia upgrades?

Others have mentioned that there are no 1080p sources, therefore no 1080p HDMI. This is complete bunk, the PC is a 1080p source with some 1080p content.

DVI can handle 1080p/60, but HDMI currently cannot. Does HDCP have anything to do with this? Is Hollywood slowing down the 1080p/60 approval process pending some new, more intrusive DRM?
(I do not understand the limitation when DVI and HDMI are so similar with the exception of HDCP and audio.)

Thanks,

J.T.
Well it is so nice to read someone else who is capable of critical analysis and thinking!

1920*1080/60fps has a bandwidth of 148.5Mhz. There are HDMI transmitters and receivers available now that have 165Mhz bandwidth:
http://www.siliconimage.com/products/productfamily.aspx?id=1

Maybe someone should contact Silicon Image and speak with an application engineer to find out if HDMI 1920*1080/60fps is a problem. If it is a problem, then it may have to do with long blanking intervals.

Rogo, (MythBuster)

KDS-R50A10 1920 x 1080 SXRD
KDS-R60A10 1920 x 1080 SXRD

Do you think that these sets will actually make it to market by Oct/Nov, considering there is so little info on them right now?

Will they have a 1080p/60 input?

Fact or Myth?
=======================================================

What was the real reason for the HDMI bottleneck with the new 1080p sets?

Some say 1080p is not in the HDMI spec, but it is as an option. So why did the manufacturers of the upcoming 1080p sets not exercise this option?

I have also heard that Silicon Image cut corners by meeting the barest requirements of the spec in their current HDMI chips. But if this is the case what HDMI chip is Sony using for the Qualia upgrades?

Others have mentioned that there are no 1080p sources, therefore no 1080p HDMI. This is complete bunk, the PC is a 1080p source with some 1080p content.

DVI can handle 1080p/60, but HDMI currently cannot. Does HDCP have anything to do with this? Is Hollywood slowing down the 1080p/60 approval process pending some new, more intrusive DRM?
(I do not understand the limitation when DVI and HDMI are so similar with the exception of HDCP and audio.)

Thanks,

J.T.

I don't think there is a technical reason why 1080P is not directly supported as an input. 1080P at 60Hz is clearly supported in the HDMI/CES/VESA specs. As has been said it outputs at 148.5MHz. There are PC graphics cards that support this such as ATI's graphics cards (ATI has their own DVI/HDMI implementation). Silicon image makes chips that support up to 160MHz (including the 148.5MHz 1080P spec). They have chips such as the 1161 without HDCP and 1169 with HDCP chips that support 1080P and beyond.

I think it probably has more to do with some of the factors below:

1. Business decision on what to support on the TV.
2. That the sets may not look that good when supporting a 1080P source. There may for example be some artifact problems and they don't want to enable consumers seeing it.
3. Maybe there are issues with "compatibility" between all the implementations of DVI/HDMI. I have read that not all the implementations of DVI/HDMI are as good as others.

I have come across several HDMI cables on sale on the web and they all advertise they support 1080p. Further I just read a review where HDMI cables were tested with 1080p and worked flawlessly, despite claims that HDMI does not support 1080p.

I think the only reason there are HDMI claims of not supporting 1080p is because 1080p is not available. The Sony PS3 will output 1080p via HDMI. New Sony sets will support it's reception.

When I bought my 1920x1200 computer monitor with a DVI-D input, I was told that DVI did not support anything above 1600x1200. Well, that was clearly wrong and now all the specs have been modified.

Regarding implementation of 1080p input


...............its probably as simple as the cost benefit isn't there. Simple business decision.


For those who insist that they got to have it, would you be willing to spend an extra $3K (Qualia 1080p upgrade cost to their front projector) to have it added to your set??

I understand your point, but with Sony products on the horizon that have 1080p outputs, Sony will build the inputs.

Sony will want you to buy a $5,000 TV because you can view your PS3 in 1080p, not that you will buy a PS3 just because you already have a new TV.

PS3 will drive 1080p sales to some extent and Sony is coincidently one of the first on the market to have true 1080p.

I also believe SXRDs are notable for their color accuracy (wide gamut?) but how much of that is attributed to the Xenon bulbs used in the current Qualias and how much is attributed to the basic design of the SXRD technology is anyone's guess at this point...

One thing is for sure, these cheaper SXRDs will not use an expensive Xenon bulb so those lucious reds everybody raves about with the Qualias will probably be a distant memory....

One thing that Lew Black noted in his post on these new models:

KDSR50A10 $3,999.99 Nov. 05, KDSR60A10 $4,999.99 Oct 05. HDTV monitor (3 SXRD/1920x1080), qualia006 pure red, high contrast ratio, film like reproduction, WEGA Engine HD (DRC MultiFunction V2), S-Master, HDMI, Audio Optical Out (Tos Link), PC Input (D-Sub 15 pin), MS Viewer, New Edge Design, WEGA GATE User Interface

Not 100% sure what "qualia006 pure red" means but it's probably safe to assume that (based on the above quote) these models will deliver the nice reds you speak of.

I understand your point, but with Sony products on the horizon that have 1080p outputs, Sony will build the inputs.

Sony will want you to buy a $5,000 TV because you can view your PS3 in 1080p, not that you will buy a PS3 just because you already have a new TV.

PS3 will drive 1080p sales to some extent and Sony is coincidently one of the first on the market to have true 1080p.I have never known Sony to be the leader in offering feature rich products at the lowest prices. Typically they tier their products to offer models that hit various price points by starting at the top and stripping features to reduce price point.

I don't expect the new GW SXRD sets to be 1080p input compatible. That wil likely be a 2nd generation or Qualia feature set. Keep in mind the Q005 flat panel LCD in Japan is offered in more than one size. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Q006 offered in 50"/60" sizes being sold concurrently with 50"/60" Grand Wega SXRD sets with less features.

I have never known Sony to be the leader in offering feature rich products at the lowest prices.

That's not really what I said. Sony, while not always on the cutting edge of features, loves to incorporate their own technology across their products. How many people have TVs that read Memory stick and only Memory stick, while other manufacturers have multi-format card readers. There also was the whole S-Link Sony system compatible with other Sony products that Sony was pushing a few years back.

Sony will accomodate their own products to sell more product. This is all speculative at this point. Whether the specs on this unannounced set are correct or whether it will ever even be delivered (this is still all preliminary until they formally announce them) is yet to be seen. Let's wait for a formal announcement. Even the Qualia 006 was originally a 70" XBR when it was first announced.

This is from a Panasonic press release just released today:

The TH-42PWD8UK and TH-37PWD8UK offer a resolution of 852 x 480 pixels. The units can display 1080p 24p/24sf, 1080i 50/60, 720p 50/60, 480p/i and 576 p/i and offer support for VGA, SVGA, XGA, SXGA and UXGA resolution.

These specs are for new 37" and 42" plasma EDTV models. It doesn't say which inputs can take 1080p (may only be VGA) but if a 37" EDTV with an MSRP under $2400 can accept 1080p, there's no excuse for a 1080p native-res set not including the feature at twice the price.

Here's a link to the press release (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=93742&modelNo=Content06072005094404654&surfModel=Content06072005094404654)

37" EDTV with an MSRP under $2400 can accept 1080p, there's no excuse for a 1080p native-res set not including the feature at twice the price.

Here's a link to the press release (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=93742&modelNo=Content06072005094404654&surfModel=Content06072005094404654)
The Qualia 004 , Sony HS51, and I believe the Qualia 06 already support 1080p24sf, which is a HDTV standard.

I am assuming people are up in arms over 1080p60??, which currently should be of interest only to gamers. The key question is if these sets had 1080p60 right now, what would you feed it

I am assuming people are up in arms over 1080p60??, which currently should be of interest only to gamers. The key question is if these sets had 1080p60 right now, what would you feed it


Spec sheets for unreleased products??? :D

Spec sheets for unreleased products??? :D
LMAO. :)

Regarding implementation of 1080p input


...............its probably as simple as the cost benefit isn't there. Simple business decision.


For those who insist that they got to have it, would you be willing to spend an extra $3K (Qualia 1080p upgrade cost to their front projector) to have it added to your set??
A rather silly stance given that the Dell 24" 1920*1200 under $1K computer monitor can accept 1920*1200 60fps DVI signals. Note that this is the whole monitor with 1:1 pixel mapping. Bottom line is the incremental cost is NOT the issue. The technology is here today and it is cheap.

One point-of-view indicates that "TV" manufactures are simply stalling and want us consumers to upgrade every year or two.

The Qualia 004 , Sony HS51, and I believe the Qualia 06 already support 1080p24sf, which is a HDTV standard.

I am assuming people are up in arms over 1080p60??, which currently should be of interest only to gamers. The key question is if these sets had 1080p60 right now, what would you feed it
Some call it a "computer".

The Qualia 004 , Sony HS51, and I believe the Qualia 06 already support 1080p24sf, which is a HDTV standard.

I am assuming people are up in arms over 1080p60??, which currently should be of interest only to gamers. The key question is if these sets had 1080p60 right now, what would you feed it

Yeah but those are all very high-priced pieces of equipment. I'm thinking of the new SXRD sets (which I hope do support 1080p inputs, but it's all just a guess right now) as well as the forthcoming DLP and LCOS 1080p sets, few of which seem to have the capability.

I thought it was strange that the press release mentioned 1080p/24 and not 1080p/60. It's my understanding that HTPCs and the upcoming PS3 will output 1080p/60, and 1080p/24 would be for film-based content, most likely on BluRay/HD-DVD, but so far whether they'll actually do 1080p for those is speculation at best. But then I don't even know what value 1080p input would have for an EDTV in the first place.

In any case, the important thing about that press release to me, is that it further demonstrates that failure to include 1080p input capability on any new 1080p native-res set is due neither to technical impediments nor cost impediments.

Yeah
In any case, the important thing about that press release to me, is that it further demonstrates that failure to include 1080p input capability on any new 1080p native-res set is due neither to technical impediments nor cost impediments.
Your thinking is on the right track! Now here is what the manufactures did: they changed the name of their DLP xHD4 chip to "1080p" to put up a smoke-screen and confuse the consumer. To a large extent they have succeeded. Very devious indeed!

Note that existing 720p displays all handle REAL PROGRESSIVE INPUT SIGNALS(1280*720p 60fps)

Do the new "1080p" displays handle real progressive input signals? (1920*1080p 24-72 fps)
Answer: NO!

Did you ever see the movie "Back To The Future" where Biff has the dump-truck of manure dumped on him? Manufactures think that consumers/Biff will not be able to figure out that they are being screwed. Instead, they will all repeat their false mantra "1080p", just like a parrot.

Some call it a "computer".
Never head of it. :)
What sources will you be running on this "computer".

I believe I have already covered video games, for which I believe 1280x1024 @ 72 is still the sweet spot for fast action.

Houston,

People can Run there Terminator 2 Wmv hd on it or shows that they have record OTA.(over the air)

P

A rather silly stance given that the Dell 24" 1920*1200 under $1K computer monitor can accept 1920*1200 60fps DVI signals. Note that this is the whole monitor with 1:1 pixel mapping. Bottom line is the incremental cost is NOT the issue. The technology is here today and it is cheap.




Which was manuactured for the computer industry, not the home theater market.

Some day when 1080p is a common input signal for home theater, you'll see manufacturers including it in their design, but why would you expect them to include it before there is strong enough demand. Hardly believe the few that want to display their computers on their TV would justify it.

.........oops, I'm being silly again. :D

Don't be so sure about that. I think the coming Sony SXRD's might have some trouble developing into anything but a niche market for this year, anyway. By late fall when all the manufacturer's 1080P DLP's, D-ILA's and LCOS lines are out competition for market share will be fierce. Street prices for 54"-58" 1080P sets will be well under 3K and 60"-64" models won't be very much over 3K. Sony will either have to drop their eventual street prices substantially from where they are anticipated to be or have a tremendous quality advantage over all other lines to become a mass market seller - -


Well gee, since Tweeter claims the 50" Samsung 1080p set that's coming out in June/July is ~$4500, I stand by my claim that the SXRD will do quite nicely. I think your predictions are a little agressive and/or early with regard to street prices. If anything, it will be Samsung who is forced to bow to competitive pricing from Sony.

Houston,

People can Run there Terminator 2 Wmv hd on it or shows that they have record OTA.(over the air)

P
I have T2 WMV. Care to name another WMV title anyone is interested in. OK maybe Coral Reef. :) Have you compared it to the T2 DVHS 1080i version? Not a lot of difference IMO.

There is no 1080p OTA available. It is either 720p or 1080i.

I agree that supporting any possible input would be perfect. For movies people should focus more on 1080p24(sf) than 1080p60! I believe the Sonys already support 1080p24sf.

Well gee, since Tweeter claims the 50" Samsung 1080p set that's coming out in June/July is ~$4500, I stand by my claim that the SXRD will do quite nicely. I think your predictions are a little agressive and/or early with regard to street prices. If anything, it will be Samsung who is forced to bow to competitive pricing from Sony.


You're pricing is WAY off unless you are referring to a much larger model. The 56" model can be had for little more than 3K now on pre-orders from etailers and the 61" model is only a few hundred more. They will certainly be AT A MINIMUM $300-$500 cheaper when all the 1080P lines start competing for sales this Fall/Winter, so as i said, SXRD may very well do quite nicely, but it will have to be at significantly lower street prices than they had been anticipating.....

Well gee, since Tweeter claims the 50" Samsung 1080p set that's coming out in June/July is ~$4500, I stand by my claim that the SXRD will do quite nicely. I think your predictions are a little agressive and/or early with regard to street prices. If anything, it will be Samsung who is forced to bow to competitive pricing from Sony.



LMAO! Obviously they will gather dust and grow old. Tweeters sure isn't going to be selling any. The MUCH LARGER 56" Samsung 1080P DLP is available for $1,300 LESS right now on pre-orders!(one of whom is a forum sponsor). I would certainly avoid the Tweeters quoting you those prices if you're in the market to buy anything:)

LMAO! Obviously they will gather dust and grow old. Tweeters sure isn't going to be selling any. The MUCH LARGER 56" Samsung 1080P DLP is available for $1,300 LESS right now on pre-orders!(one of whom is a forum sponsor). I would certainly avoid the Tweeters quoting you those prices if you're in the market to buy anything:)

I think the Samsung model he is referring to is the high-end "Captain Kirk" pedestal model, thus the price discrepancy. Perhaps you two are talking about 2 different products. The Capt. Kirk model is in the most recent Tweeter's mailer.

Quick clarification to one post above: The Qualia 006 does not accept any form of 1080p signal. Only 1080i. Also, I believe the 006 has a UHP lamp, not a Xenon lamp.

These new sets will be quite interesting!

Cheers.

LMAO! Obviously they will gather dust and grow old. Tweeters sure isn't going to be selling any. The MUCH LARGER 56" Samsung 1080P DLP is available for $1,300 LESS right now on pre-orders!(one of whom is a forum sponsor). I would certainly avoid the Tweeters quoting you those prices if you're in the market to buy anything:)


With all due respect, I don't think quoting a powerbuy price that is almost $1000 off the list price of $4,199 on the 56" is at all illuminating. I think you grossly overestimate the percentage of total TV buyers who will be able to take advantage of such a deal. The bottom line is that the MSRPs are very close, even when factoring in the extra real-estate the Samsung 56" has over a 50".

Sony 50" SXRD - MSRP $3999
Samsung 56" DLP - MSRP $4,199

Discounts will (and have historically been) very close between Samsung and Sony. Power buys are great for us, but I doubt highly there will be many people who will be able to pick up the 56" for that kind of a price outside of this forum.

In the current issue (May / June) of the Perfect Vision magazine (http://www.theperfectvision.com/), there is a review of the Qualia 006. In short, while the reviewer liked many things about it, his main complaint was with some "false contouring" the set was introducing into the picture. This problem was said to crop up only on some DVDs, but that when it did, it was "very distracting". From my understanding, false contouring is essentially the same as color banding (a computer graphics term), in which transistions from light to dark (such as an illuminated street light against the night sky) are seen as distinct blocks or bands of color instead of being smooth and seamless. The reviewer noted that this was not a problem with the Qualia 004 front projector, so I hope they get this kink worked out before they release the new SXRD sets.

You can download the current issue of the magazine for $10 at the Perfect Vision web site.


Cheers,

- Tim

Can I just say I saw the 70 inch model at Ultimate Electronics today, and it was unbelievable....

So big, yet so clear...

Mike

Doesn't the low-cost Silicon Image SiI 9011 receiver with 165 mhz bandwidth accept 1080p?* and UXGA 1600x1200@60Hz?

http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?id=45

There is no reason for these sets not to have a 1080p input. It exists, it's low-cost so put it on.

Are the 1080p sets only able to do 1080p24,30?

What exactly is the process for converting 1080i to 1080p? (most 720p sets use only one 1080i field, which is 540, and upscale it to 720p. Is a similar process being used in the new 1080p sets?)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It does seem that they are trying to stretch this out because after reaching 1080p60 where do they go. Broadcast, Cable and Satellite are behind so it will be quite awhile before they reach 1080p60, HiDef DVD will most likely be 1080p24,30 for the next 10 years, Sony PS3 1080p60 for the next five. After reaching 1080p60, it is back to the old flashy marketing names for incrementally improved contrast and picture processing.

Emerging, new technologies might help with saving limited space and reducing prices, but that 1080p60 plateau will still remain. Then it's chase the ever shrinking dollar. Possibly, fiber-to-the-home will break the bandwidth problem for content carriers, but then you have to get joe six-pack to dedicate an entire wall to enjoy the increased resolution. How big can you go, an IMAX in every home?

Next step the HoloDeck! ;-)

In the current issue (May / June) of the Perfect Vision magazine (http://www.theperfectvision.com/), there is a review of the Qualia 006. In short, while the reviewer liked many things about it, his main complaint was with some "false contouring" the set was introducing into the picture. This problem was said to crop up only on some DVDs, but that when it did, it was "very distracting".
- Tim


Since it only appears on some DVDs, wouldn't you think its a problem with the DVD authoring?

Since it only appears on some DVDs, wouldn't you think its a problem with the DVD authoring?

I see false contouring all the time on my 32" analog CRT tube set, so obviously a lot of DVDs have this problem. I actually see LESS false contouring on most HD sets than I do on my analog set, so it seems a lot of HDTVs have some processing to correct for this. DVD color is 8-bit, and most sets do their color processing somewhere between 10-12 bits. So the difference in false contouring between different sets seems more a function of how well those sets do at correcting existing false contouring, rather than a difference caused by adding false contouring where it doesn't already exist.

With all due respect, I don't think quoting a powerbuy price that is almost $1000 off the list price of $4,199 on the 56" is at all illuminating. I think you grossly overestimate the percentage of total TV buyers who will be able to take advantage of such a deal. The bottom line is that the MSRPs are very close, even when factoring in the extra real-estate the Samsung 56" has over a 50".

Sony 50" SXRD - MSRP $3999
Samsung 56" DLP - MSRP $4,199

Discounts will (and have historically been) very close between Samsung and Sony. Power buys are great for us, but I doubt highly there will be many people who will be able to pick up the 56" for that kind of a price outside of this forum.

You're kidding, right? You just can't be that naive.
First of all, your "MSRP" is way off or outdated. It is less than that. Second, "MSRP" is a meaningless number. None of these sets sell for anywhere near "MSRP" and if you pay more than 80% of MSRP for any big screen TV, you are being taken.
The "powerbuy" price is a decent price but nothing super-special. similar prices are also available for pre-orders at a few other etailers. Actually, the "Power buy" on the 720P line turned out to be a couple of hundred dollars MORE than the prices available immediately upon these sets hitting the street. Anyone can "take advantage" of an even LOWER price if they wait until the competiition heats up this fall. Really, this is not rocket science. If you can buy an item for $3200-$3300 before it's actually been shipped, you will be able to buy it for LESS after it's on the street for a month or so - not MORE! The 56" set will settle in below 3K by late fall, the 61" model at a little over 3K. And we're not even discussing the other manufacturer's 1080P lines which will be out in a few months. this is reality. For a 50" Sony SXRD to compete for anything but a small, niche market, it will have to sell at street prices LESS than where other manufacturers 56" sets settle in at. Not many people will pay more for a much smaller set, even if it has a somewhat better PQ(which has yet to be proven). The Samsung 1080P's have very good PQ, the coming JVC 1080P D-ILA's have an even better PQ, the coming Toshiba 1080P DLPs are said to be maybe the best of the DLP crop this year, and i haven't even gotten into Mitsubishi, LG, Sharp, etc. Take my word for it, Sony is not going to sell too many 50" sets for much more than 3K....

Doesn't the low-cost Silicon Image SiI 9011 receiver with 165 mhz bandwidth accept 1080p?* and UXGA 1600x1200@60Hz?

http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?id=45

There is no reason for these sets not to have a 1080p input. It exists, it's low-cost so put it on.


Exactly! It's incomprehensible that any manufacturer would ship without an SiI 9011 chip. They're cheap and they are available. Has to be some MPAA legal angle i'm missing here....

"Do you think that these sets will actually make it to market by Oct/Nov, considering there is so little info on them right now?"

I missed these Qs before, sorry... Yes, I believe the dates. Sony is not a "guess when it'll be ready" company that often. The first Qualia projector was late, the RPTV variant was actually early / on-time. I believe these dates.

"Will they have a 1080p/60 input?"

My guess is yes. It's easily supported today with decent parts. And it appears those decent parts are getting cheaper and cheaper.

Well it sounds like the Sony and the LG LCoS sets will have 1080p HDMI inputs, but someone said that JVC would not. However, I also noticed that JVCs 61FH96 is now going to be released in September 2005, is the delay to implement a 1080p input, or was that earlier june-july release completely bogus?

Any word on the Hitachi 1080p LCoS?

Is it set in stone that the first run 1080p DLPs will not have 1080p inputs?

Did I really see TVauthority selling a Brillian 720p LCoS for $8 grand? :eek:

Thanks!

J.T.

None of these sets sell for anywhere near "MSRP" and if you pay more than 80% of MSRP for any big screen TV, you are being taken.....

I wish it was that easy. Maybe it's true if you buy off of the internet. However, I want to buy local. And I think I can get about 20% off at HH Gregg, but besides them no one in my area of town will do this. I think a lot of negotiating power depends on where you live, what stores are in your area, and how much competition there is.

Anyone can "take advantage" of an even LOWER price if they wait until the competiition heats up this fall. Really, this is not rocket science. If you can buy an item for $3200-$3300 before it's actually been shipped, you will be able to buy it for LESS after it's on the street for a month or so - not MORE! The 56" set will settle in below 3K by late fall, the 61" model at a little over 3K. And we're not even discussing the other manufacturer's 1080P lines which will be out in a few months. this is reality. For a 50" Sony SXRD to compete for anything but a small, niche market, it will have to sell at street prices LESS than where other manufacturers 56" sets settle in at. Not many people will pay more for a much smaller set, even if it has a somewhat better PQ(which has yet to be proven).....

I'm not convinced that prices will drop much by the fall. Especially since a lot of the models won't be out until late summer/fall. I hope you are right, but judging over the last few years on DLP/LCD sets the might drop by $200 per model and then next year you'll start seeing the bigger price drops after the 1080p sets have been out for a while. I do hope you are right.

The Samsung 1080P's have very good PQ, the coming JVC 1080P D-ILA's have an even better PQ, the coming Toshiba 1080P DLPs are said to be maybe the best of the DLP crop this year, and i haven't even gotten into Mitsubishi, LG, Sharp, etc. Take my word for it, Sony is not going to sell too many 50" sets for much more than 3K....

I think this information is based on opinion. Last year it was said the Toshiba DLPs had better picture quality than others. The Toshiba does have better contrast and better blacks than all the DLPs I've seen, however the picture lacks the detail and sharpness of the Mitsubishi. Again, It'd be nice if the Toshiba was the best as the prices listed for the 1080P sets are cheaper than the rest. And this time the Toshibas aren't stripped down models. Sony, however will sell for its name. And they'll also sell to those who see rainbows which means the competition will be LCD and LCos sets. I'm sure Sony will excel in this area especially since the Hitachis will be quite expensive.

I think this information is based on opinion. Last year it was said the Toshiba DLPs had better picture quality than others. The Toshiba does have better contrast and better blacks than all the DLPs I've seen, however the picture lacks the detail and sharpness of the Mitsubishi. Again, It'd be nice if the Toshiba was the best as the prices listed for the 1080P sets are cheaper than the rest. And this time the Toshibas aren't stripped down models. Sony, however will sell for its name. And they'll also sell to those who see rainbows which means the competition will be LCD and LCos sets. I'm sure Sony will excel in this area especially since the Hitachis will be quite expensive.


I agree with you. Until you can see these sets with your own eyes, everything else(including street price) is conjecture. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I agree with you. Until you can see these sets with your own eyes, everything else(including street price) is conjecture. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I also agree--It is too early to guess street price --what if several of the 1080p sets are late to market ---what if you live in an area with less competition--what if 1 or 2 of these sets have a 1080p input and the others do not???

I agree with you. Until you can see these sets with your own eyes, everything else(including street price) is conjecture. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:


This may be the fly in the ointment. Dealers are aggressively trying to push the 720P sets out the door to make room this Fall/Winter season for the new 1080P lines coming. 720P sales have been dismal lately with everyone waiting to see the new 1080P's. 50" Samsung HLR's are being pushed down below 2K with no interest financing to try to dump them. Anyone interested in a 720P set now can walk into a bigbox dealer and practically name your price, if it's at all reasonable, you'll be a proud new owner. Unless these sets are dumped, it may take longer than anticipated for 1080P lines to find floor space this fall....

I also agree--It is too early to guess street price --what if several of the 1080p sets are late to market ---what if you live in an area with less competition--what if 1 or 2 of these sets have a 1080p input and the others do not???I'll probably end up paying MSRP if I can't find a deal. The waiting must end!

This may be the fly in the ointment. Dealers are aggressively trying to push the 720P sets out the door to make room this Fall/Winter season for the new 1080P lines coming. 720P sales have been dismal lately with everyone waiting to see the new 1080P's. 50" Samsung HLR's are being pushed down below 2K with no interest financing to try to dump them. Anyone interested in a 720P set now can walk into a bigbox dealer and practically name your price, if it's at all reasonable, you'll be a proud new owner. Unless these sets are dumped, it may take longer than anticipated for 1080P lines to find floor space this fall....

Gazelle, the 720P sets aren't being dumped. The HLR series has been well received. This is just a slow time of year until the NFL gets rolling. People are out working on their lawns and buying barbeques.

The 1080P sets will not replace the 720p's, they will be a step up. The average consumer doesn't know anything about 1080p or the differences between 1080i and 720p. They are just starting to lust after any type of HD in this last year as some programming has become available.

Lew

--what if 1 or 2 of these sets have a 1080p input and the others do not???

i'm trying to understand this 1080p stuff. What do you mean by a set having 1080p input?

i'm trying to understand this 1080p stuff. What do you mean by a set having 1080p input?

DLP, LCoS, LCD, Plasma are all fixed pixel displays. They will look their best when displaying a source, (HiDef DVD, PC wmv-hd, Sony PS3, DVDO iScan HD+, etc...), equal to their native resolution, in this case 1080p. All other sources need to be deinterlaced, upscaled, or downscaled which will degrade the picture quality to some degree.

The controversy is that this first wave of 1080p sets may only have a 1080i HDMI input. This would in effect mean that all sources, including 1080p, would have to be deinterlaced, upscaled, or downscaled. The 1080p set is incapable of looking its best due to a bottleneck at the HDMI input.

I personally would not want to plunk down 4+ grand on a 1080p set that cannot look its best because the Manufacturer chintzed out on a $6.95 SiI 9011 1080p HDMI Input/Receiver.

=========================================================
January 5, 2005

SiI 9011 (http://www.siliconimage.com/news/press/detailpressrelease.aspx?id=265)

"...Pricing and Availability

The SiI 9011 is currently shipping in production to multiple consumer electronics manufacturers and is available in two packages: a 128-pin LQFP with 0.4mm pin pitch and a 144-pin TQFP with 0.5mm pin pitch. The SiI 9011 is priced at $6.95 in 10K quantities for the 128-pin LQFP package...."

If the 50-inch and the 60-inch models are this low--how much lower will the 70-inch SXRD model be? My guess is they'll also release a 70-inch model that will support 1080p input--you always have to put out a super duper model for the same people who shelled out all that money for the original Qualia--they'll shell it out again! I wish I was smart enough to always shell out money for rapidly depreciating Video Displays!

If the 50-inch and the 60-inch models are this low--how much lower will the 70-inch SXRD model be? My guess is they'll also release a 70-inch model that will support 1080p input--you always have to put out a super duper model for the same people who shelled out all that money for the original Qualia--they'll shell it out again! I wish I was smart enough to always shell out money for rapidly depreciating Video Displays!


by that token, why bother buying anything at all :confused:

Yeah timing should never matter--just buy as soon as possible--try to sell that to people who know something about money at Wall Street!

Yeah timing should never matter--just buy as soon as possible--try to sell that to people who know something about money at Wall Street!You when the retailer tells you it's the right time to buy, geesh! :rolleyes:

it all boils down to disposable income and how much a person has at any given point in time; what is right for some isn't for others, so why bother wasting bandwidth on such discussions.

The controversy is that this first wave of 1080p sets may only have a 1080i HDMI input. This would in effect mean that all sources, including 1080p, would have to be deinterlaced, upscaled, or downscaled. The 1080p set is incapable of looking its best due to a bottleneck at the HDMI input.

I personally would not want to plunk down 4+ grand on a 1080p set that cannot look its best because the Manufacturer chintzed out on a $6.95 SiI 9011 1080p HDMI Input/Receiver.

What about 4k support?

There are currently no native 1080p60 sources, outside of computer games. AFAIK 1080p60 is not even an HDTV standard.

This is like worring about 200mph rated tires. At some point in the future this may be a real issue, and is a cool discussion point, but is currently a non-issue.

What was the price of that part 12 to 18 months ago when the the currently shipping sets were designed, What was the state of HDMI? How many receivers shipping as of Jan 05 support HDMI :)

What about 4k support?

There are currently no native 1080p60 sources, outside of computer games. AFAIK 1080p60 is not even an HDTV standard.

This is like worring about 200mph rated tires. At some point in the future this may be a real issue, and is a cool discussion point, but is currently a non-issue.

What was the price of that part 12 to 18 months ago when the the currently shipping sets were designed, What was the state of HDMI? How many receivers shipping as of Jan 05 support HDMI :)

So your advice is what exactly?

Buy now because the immediate future is irrelevant.

So your advice is what exactly?

Buy now because the immediate future is irrelevant.

Excuse me for jumping in here.

Not so much for the 1080p input except for gamers and home theater computer guys, but its the display resolution of 1080p (over 720p) which may include a better black level and black management (auto iris) that may in combination result is a worthwhile difference and worth the wait. The problem as I see it is that in most home theater stores, the store illumination mask the difference in black levels and might make the sets look more similar than they would if viewed in the evening in most homes.

$6.95 at wholesale in lots of 10K may mean $100-$150 at retail. Not a huge sum, but something the manufacturers have to consider when trying to hit price points. The cost, as HHF has pointed out, was probably much higher a year ago. Hopefully we can expect 1080p input next year, but I doubt it will matter to non-gamers. Lew

Also, remember that Sony is losing money in their consumer TV division.

If Sony loses money on TVs for a long enough time will the Qualians try to take over the world?

Unless I missed something about the XBR line/designation being discontinued, I still think we will see some 60" and 70" SXRD displays under the XBR designation. Not this year, maybe next year?

Regards,
Dan

$6.95 at wholesale in lots of 10K may mean $100-$150 at retail. Not a huge sum, but something the manufacturers have to consider when trying to hit price points. The cost, as HHF has pointed out, was probably much higher a year ago. Hopefully we can expect 1080p input next year, but I doubt it will matter to non-gamers. Lew

Also, remember that Sony is losing money in their consumer TV division.

Lew,

I am not sure I am following you on the $100-$150 retail. They are already putting HDMI inputs on the set, but they decided to go with 1080i over 1080p so the increase in cost would be the difference between the two. I believe the difference would be even more miniscule.

Then you have to ask if they cut corners here, what about the internal scaler that you will be forced to use. No HDMI scaling from your DVD player, no external DVDO iScan HD+ because the TV must do the final scaling from 1080i-to-1080p to get around the bottleneck.

Now I do not think these sets are a step backwards, but they sure aren't the full step forwards for which you are paying.

Hopefully, some of these 1080p sets will have 1080p inputs, and put this whole issue to rest.

Thanks for the comments,

J.T.

Well I have a set that will accept 1080p60 ( Sony G70 ), I just can't find any 1080p60 input! I see 480i from DVDs. 720p and 1080i from DVHS and OTA HDTV. ( I am ignoring T2 WMV, and the other handfull of location eye candy WMV offerings ).

A year from now we will likely have 480i DVDs, 1080i and hopefully 1080p24sf from HD/BLU Ray, 1080i from DVHS, and 720p, 1080i OTA HDTV.

2 years from now ...
5 years from now ...

I thought that I had read here a while back that Microsoft was making 1080p movies available for download on a weekly basis.

I also think it's desirable to have 1080p60 inputs so you can perform any video processing outside of the TV and be able to drive the display at it's native signal rate. The desire to do external video processing is due to the suspected quick ramp-up in processing capabilities that will be superior to what will ship with these initial 1080p displays.

I also think it's desirable to have 1080p60 inputs so you can perform any video processing outside of the TV and be able to drive the display at it's native signal rate. The desire to do external video processing is due to the suspected quick ramp-up in processing capabilities that will be superior to what will ship with these initial 1080p displays.
The external scaler arguement. :)

Lets see, for film sources 1080p24sf is a much better output than 1080p60 (no judder ).

Well how about OTA 1080i HDTV via scaler. Lets find a scaler that will deinterlace 1080i60 to 1080p without bob and weave ( basically throwing away half the resolution, resulting in 540p). Well there is therecently shipping faroudja 1080 at $8,0000, ... A nice partner to my $3,500 TV!

I already discussed Microsoft's WMV HD movie collection.

Is it better to have 1080p60 than not?. Sure it is.

Is not having 1080p60 a big issue? Not an issue at all, and likely not an issue for the forseable future.

I had also read here that at least some networks are shooting video at 1080p. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some form of transport of these 1080p sourced videos to the consumer over the next 10 years (optical media, internet, satellite, OTA, other?). I would hope to keep my new 1080p set for quite some time. Maybe not as long as my usual 20+ year stints on CRT based TVs.

Is the entire extent of Microsoft's available 1080p content limited to two films?

Lets find a scaler that will deinterlace 1080i60 to 1080p without bob and weave ( basically throwing away half the resolution, resulting in 540p).

HoustonHoyaFan,

Wow, HHF you just made the argument! Don't buy the current 1080p sets because you will never get more than 540p on your brand new HiDef DVD, PS3 and HTPC.

How good do you think the scaler/deinterlacer will be in a set that skimped on a 1080p HDMI? (keep in mind, you are locked into it for all sources. Many have preferred the scaler/deinterlacer in their HDMI DVD players to their sets, but this will not be an option in this set.)

External Scalers:
Algolith Dragonfly with Realta HQV - $3500 msrp

Lew,

I am not sure I am following you on the $100-$150 retail. They are already putting HDMI inputs on the set, but they decided to go with 1080i over 1080p so the increase in cost would be the difference between the two. I believe the difference would be even more miniscule.
Thanks for the comments,J.T.

You have a good point that it is the difference in cost between the two parts. Also I was using a formula that may be way outdated. People tend to intuit that a $5 increase in parts cost means a $5 to $10 increase in retail price. Many years ago a high end manufacturer gave us a formula that a product at retail was about 15 to 20 times the parts cost, thus the serious attempt by mass market manufacturers to cut parts costs wherever possible. Our current manufacturing model might be drastically different.

I still tend to give the manufacturers a break on this. We don't know what parts quantities were available at the time the Qualia was designed. There is just too much we don't know, including the possibility that the didn't have time to do enough testing.

I am sure that next year all of this will be forgotten as second generation sets hit the market. Lew

Lew

Who knows what evil rules the mind of corporate accountants.

I suspect that after all forumlas are applied, they look to see what their competitors are charging and try not to stray too much from that. That may actually have a lot to do with what they're willing to spend given they may feel that they can't raise the price.

Gazelle, the 720P sets aren't being dumped. The HLR series has been well received. This is just a slow time of year until the NFL gets rolling. People are out working on their lawns and buying barbeques.

The 1080P sets will not replace the 720p's, they will be a step up. The average consumer doesn't know anything about 1080p or the differences between 1080i and 720p. They are just starting to lust after any type of HD in this last year as some programming has become available.

Lew

Much agreed. And the 720P sets that are being "dumped" isn't because they are 720p sets, it's because they are clearing out the 2004 sets. This is the time were new sets 720p and 1080p sets are being released for 2005.

Lew

Who knows what evil rules the mind of corporate accountants.

I suspect that after all forumlas are applied, they look to see what their competitors are charging and try not to stray too much from that. That may actually have a lot to do with what they're willing to spend given they may feel that they can't raise the price.

Jim,

You are right on the money, evidenced by the fact that Sony is losing money on TV's despite the perception that you pay extra for the Sony name. However, I have to give the marketplace as much credit for this as the accountants. We all are "deal' and price driven these days, even though we are getting much more sophisticated products for our money. The manufacturers are so concerned about losing market share that they will price their TV's below cost. It can't go on like this forever.

I work at a high service store. I am much more knowledgable than 99% of the salesmen at the mass merchandisers. I spend time helping people find what will work best for them. Many customers come in who are on basic cable and I am the only one who tells them they can buy a set that will allow them to start receiving HD content without having to go to digital cable or put up an antenna. (Comcast tells them the opposite). At the end of the day they still expect to pay the same or less than they would at a low service store where they are lucky to find any help at all.

The marketplace has changed and I don't think you can point the finger at just the manufacturers. Look at the number of well informed people on this forum who will buy a TV, after doing much research, knowing that they may return it within 30 days to get the new model that hasn't arrived yet. Then the store has to find a place to display the returned TV and sell it at a low ball price....

Well, enough of my ranting. This is an issue, and a justified one, for gamers, and I doubt that the Sony engineers and marketers were worried about being ready for games that haven't reached the market yet. Regards, Lew

CaveCanem, I noticed that you posted that the new 50/60" SXRD sets wouldn't have HDMI inputs that could accept 1080p at 60 fps. Just out of curiosity but where did you hear that from?

Well it sounds like the Sony and the LG LCoS sets will have 1080p HDMI inputs, but someone said that JVC would not. However, I also noticed that JVCs 61FH96 is now going to be released in September 2005, is the delay to implement a 1080p input, or was that earlier june-july release completely bogus?

"Do you think that these sets will actually make it to market by Oct/Nov, considering there is so little info on them right now?"

I missed these Qs before, sorry... Yes, I believe the dates. Sony is not a "guess when it'll be ready" company that often. The first Qualia projector was late, the RPTV variant was actually early / on-time. I believe these dates.

"Will they have a 1080p/60 input?"

My guess is yes. It's easily supported today with decent parts. And it appears those decent parts are getting cheaper and cheaper.

LG has designed the SiI 9011 HDMI receiver into a number of new 2005 plasma and LCD TV models (http://www.siliconimage.com/news/press/detailpressrelease.aspx?id=265)

Targeted at mass-market DTVs and now shipping in production to LG Electronics and other leading consumer electronics manufacturers, the SiI 9011 is a fully featured, third-generation HDMI receiver supporting High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP), DVD-Audio and HDCP repeater functionality. LG has designed the SiI 9011 HDMI receiver into a number of new 2005 plasma and LCD TV models.


Richard Paul,

I do believe that the Sony SXRD 50/60, and LG LCoS sets will have 1080p inputs based on ROGO's comments, and the fact that LG has been receiving SiI 9011 HDMI receivers since January, though the press release does not mention the LCoS by name. As for the JVC HD-ILA FH96 series, I am unable to track down my source that was skeptical on a 1080p HDMI for it.

The Samsung and Mitsubishi 1080p DLPs will not have 1080p HDMIs, unless this has changed very, very recently.

Okay, I had seen this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5748204&&#post5748204) but had not read your earlier posts about the JVC. Sorry for the confusion.

Do you think TVA will offer a powerbuy on these 50 and 60" SXRD sets? The KDSR50A10 Nov. 05 release date and the KDSR60A10 Oct. 05 release date.

We were waiting to buy the JVC in the fall and have seen the 70" SXRD which my husband says it looks great but is too big for our home however, the 60 would be great!!

I just spoke with Kin at TVAuthority and he indicated they would not be carrying the SXRD line from Sony this fall.

Bombthroat,

Any explaination?

Any new, more concrete, info on the KDS-R60A10 and KDS-R50A10?

Bombthroat,

Any explaination?

No, I asked if there was a reason they would not be carrying the line and he said it was strictly a business decision.

He said they can't carry every line of TV and this is one that didn't make the list. I asked if he knew of any technical reason why the decision was made to not carry the set and he said no and pointed me to the JVC and Brillian line of LCoS TV's as being comparable models they carry (specifically the upcoming 1080p JVC models in my case).

Bombthroat: Their also is the possibility that Sony will not allow TVAuthority to sell the set or they would not be permitted to sell it at a competitive price (via internet).

Bombthroat: Their also is the possibility that Sony will not allow TVAuthority to sell the set or they would not be permitted to sell it at a competitive price (via internet).


Exactly. Sony is very picky about who they allow to be "Authorized Distributors".
You have to meet fairly stringent financial conditions i doubt very many small cyberspace-only e-tailers do.

Sammik

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe that TVA also has a physical storefront.

TVA might be the smart one on this though. With the exception of the Qualia, LCOS has had a terrible time getting things going. Maybe they want to wait it out some to be sure that there is not some nightmareish recall.

Sammik

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe that TVA also has a physical storefront.

TVA might be the smart one on this though. With the exception of the Qualia, LCOS has had a terrible time getting things going. Maybe they want to wait it out some to be sure that there is not some nightmareish recall.

If that were so, why would they be taking a chance on an upstart like Brillian? Sony may be limiting distribution, and internet marketing, on the new sets until they have good supply of them. If we find that One Call isn't carrying it, that might give a clue. Lew

Sammik

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe that TVA also has a physical storefront.

TVA might be the smart one on this though. With the exception of the Qualia, LCOS has had a terrible time getting things going. Maybe they want to wait it out some to be sure that there is not some nightmareish recall.

There has already been a recall on the previous generation of JVC LCOS sets, and TVA still carries those.

You guys are awesome.

In addition to helping me waste an entire afternoon at work, I now have the KDS-R60A10 on my shopping list come October.

I've got the same problem Krux has - what do I do with my "old" XBR CRT (though my problem is only 32"... won't work as the bedroom tv - just ordered the 23" A10 for that...)

I love Sony TVs - Come on, October!

Any new, more concrete, info on the KDS-R60A10 and KDS-R50A10?
Stopped into a small high end Sony dealer yesterday to ask if the info on these sets is correct and he looked it up in his Sony book and confirmed the #s --dates and prices talked about in this thread. He had no info about them having a 1080P input so it's still anyones guess.

Roy

Stopped into a small high end Sony dealer yesterday to ask if the info on these sets is correct and he looked it up in his Sony book and confirmed the #s --dates and prices talked about in this thread. He had no info about them having a 1080P input so it's still anyones guess.

Roy

The only information I have been able to get is incredibly shaky at best. Some no-name internet stores have the models listed with next to no info, except to say they are LCD RPTVs. Hardly worth mentioning, except for the fact that there is such a black hole of information in regards to these sets, with only four months to go before release.

Sometimes information about new sets is held close to the vest for a long time. I suspect that Sony is not 100% confident that the sets will make their release date, so in order to not look like they will miss an official date that they made a big deal about, they are being quiet and releasing just enough info to influence some purchase decisions. Then if it looks like they will make the dates, they will likely roll out a big marketing campaign, ship them to all of the review mags, and try to steal the thunder from the other 1080p sets coming out.

As to TVA, I would bet money that the decision for them to not sell these sets was made by Sony and not TVA.

My local dealer, among others, refers to Sony as "Soon Only Not Yet." I'm incredibly excited about the new SXRD sets and really hope that they are on schedule (60" in October), but it really is surprising how little info is out there about them. I've been waffling between Mits 725 and Sony's XS (unfortunately I really dislike the speakers), but both manufacturers have new sets coming out soon, so it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

Jason

"...they are being quiet and releasing just enough info to influence some purchase decisions. "

I agree with nearly everything you said, but this part struck me as very unrealistic. Virtually no one knows about these TVs outside of places like this. There is just no way they did this to influence purchasing decisions. That strains the imagination and / or makes us out to be far more important here than we really are.

It's far more possible that the newspaper article about the assembly plant and such never should've happened and someone has gotten slapped on the wrist for talking way too much.

Any new, more concrete, info on the KDS-R60A10 and KDS-R50A10?

They will have XBR model names when introduced.

It's far more possible that the newspaper article about the assembly plant and such never should've happened and someone has gotten slapped on the wrist for talking way too much.
That was a major leak, taken behind the wood shed for a royal whipping is more likely. :)

Rogo,

I didn't base my statement on only that we know because of the newspaper article, but also that people here are reporting that dealers have information, and are willing to divulge it, and that internet sellers are already listing the model numbers on their sites. Thus Sony is releasing some information in back channels.

I fully agree that this information being posted here is not going to have significant market impact. And that Sony is clearly not engaged in marketing these models yet. So I would agree that my statement is a bit of an overstatement.

If I were a betting man, I would put my money on these sets not making the rumored targeted release dates.

Rogo,

I didn't base my statement on only that we know because of the newspaper article, but also that people here are reporting that dealers have information, and are willing to divulge it, and that internet sellers are already listing the model numbers on their sites. Thus Sony is releasing some information in back channels.

I fully agree that this information being posted here is not going to have significant market impact. And that Sony is clearly not engaged in marketing these models yet. So I would agree that my statement is a bit of an overstatement.

If I were a betting man, I would put my money on these sets not making the rumored targeted release dates.

Sony did not do to bad with ship dates on the new LCD that they announced on March 8 with a projected ship date of "spring" and they are now shipping them.

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/5980

If they hit the Oct date that close it won"t be too bad.

Roy

"
I didn't base my statement on only that we know because of the newspaper article, but also that people here are reporting that dealers have information, and are willing to divulge it, and that internet sellers are already listing the model numbers on their sites. Thus Sony is releasing some information in back channels."

Tom, I hear you.

That said, the amount of information being release is very, very consistent with other TV releases. The only thing unusual here is that there was no info at the Sony line show. But then again, the original Qualia RPTV was a shown-once-then-shipped TV. It had a very rapid turnaround from its trade-show appearance -- where it wasn't done at all -- and retail -- which it hit on time.

I'm not one who believes these will be particularly late or even late at all.

Any more news on these sets? I would like to keep this thread up to date. If those of you "in the know" would update it, that would be great.

I spoke with my dealer this afternoon, who is usually very "in the know" as far as upcoming gear, and he said that there's little to no information coming down the pipeline about the new SXRDs. At this point, it's between these and the new 1080p Mitsubishis that are due in August.

Jason

Honestly, I'm not convinced we've received any information that definitively indicates that they are even going to release these SXRD sets this year, although I think they certainly should!

I spoke with my dealer this afternoon, who is usually very "in the know" as far as upcoming gear, and he said that there's little to no information coming down the pipeline about the new SXRDs. At this point, it's between these and the new 1080p Mitsubishis that are due in August.

Jason

Then were did KDSR60a10 magically come from?

Then were did KDSR60a10 magically come from?
Who's talking magic...did I miss something...is David Copperfield going to pull an SXRD out of his ass?

I said "little to no information"...not referring to model numbers (wow) but in regards to feature-specific information. Do a Google search on that model number and you'll get 3 or 4 hits (all from forums such as this). I think everybody around here is looking for detailed info on these sets...nobody is claiming that there is some sort of Sony conspiracy (although Oliver Stone would probably make a movie about it).

By the way, "where" is spelled with an "h"...:D

Jason

Nothing new here, but worth a post because Stan Glasgow is Sony's US consumer sales president;
Glasgow mapped out Sony’s display products strategy for 2005, showing the currently available 70W-inch Qualia 006 ($13,000) SXRD rear-projection microdisplay HDTV “at the very high end of the line.”

Below Qualia, Sony is extending the XBR sub-brand — which was once used to mark top of the line CRT TVs — to include flat-panel LCD and SXRD.

Glasgow said Sony will introduce in the fall 50W-inch and 60W-inch SXRD-based microdisplay rear-projection HDTV sets under the XBR line “at considerably lower pricing” than the current Qualia 006 model.

Twice.com (http://www.twice.com/article/CA610536.html?display=breaking+news)(requires registration)

So basically, if you still want a 70" set, the Qualia 006 will be the only one offered from Sony?????

Nothing new here, but worth a post because Stan Glasgow is Sony's US consumer sales president;


Twice.com (http://www.twice.com/article/CA610536.html?display=breaking+news)(requires registration)
This is significant. It is the first official statement from Sony that there will be 50" and 60" SXRD sets under the XBR banner available in the fall. This confirms the newspaper leak that their PA plant has been retooled to produce 50" and 60" SXRD sets.

I spoke with my dealer this afternoon, who is usually very "in the know" as far as upcoming gear, and he said that there's little to no information coming down the pipeline about the new SXRDs. At this point, it's between these and the new 1080p Mitsubishis that are due in August.

Jason

My understanding is that Mits 1080p will be lucky to make projected September dates, at least with any quantity. August is not on Mits's calendar. Lew

So basically, if you still want a 70" set, the Qualia 006 will be the only one offered from Sony?????


I can't imagine that sony would leave such a large gap in pricing 5k to 13k, it just doesn't make much sense. 8k for 10" come on. I think you will see a 70" sometime in the near future that is either the qualia or a re-badged xbr in the 6-8k range. Its the only way to move tvs. Granted with the qualia moving right now it doesn't seem likely. But with all the coming 1080p sets the price will have to come down or sales will be non existent.

I can't imagine that sony would leave such a large gap in pricing 5k to 13k, it just doesn't make much sense. 8k for 10" come on. I think you will see a 70" sometime in the near future that is either the qualia or a re-badged xbr in the 6-8k range. Its the only way to move tvs. Granted with the qualia moving right now it doesn't seem likely. But with all the coming 1080p sets the price will have to come down or sales will be non existent.


If your in the LA area you can go to Audio and Video Only on Wilshire Blvd. and get the Qualia for $9,999. I would not be surprised to see a 70inch SXRD XBR model for $7-8 MSRP, The jump from 60" to 70" seems to bring the biggest price jump between sizes of HDTV's.

My understanding is that Mits 1080p will be lucky to make projected September dates, at least with any quantity. August is not on Mits's calendar. Lew
Not according to this...

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050627/275650.html?.v=1

Granted, it's just for their 52", but it seems like they're on schedule.

Jason

I can't imagine that sony would leave such a large gap in pricing 5k to 13k, it just doesn't make much sense. 8k for 10" come on. I think you will see a 70" sometime in the near future that is either the qualia or a re-badged xbr in the 6-8k range. Its the only way to move tvs. Granted with the qualia moving right now it doesn't seem likely. But with all the coming 1080p sets the price will have to come down or sales will be non existent.

There are supposed to be technical differences between the Q006 and any of these purported SXRD-based sets, the optics being one of them...the difference isn't only in adding the 10" screen bump. Whether the added cost for the technical differences are worth it is another story :)

Not according to this...

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050627/275650.html?.v=1

Granted, it's just for their 52", but it seems like they're on schedule.

Jason

The link didn't work, but I do stand corrected. I went back and rechecked the Mits roll out dates and the entry level 52 and 62 1080p sets are supposed to arrive July/August. The bigger sets are scheduled for September, but I was told not to count on it this far away in time. Lew

Sorry about the link...if you hit refresh it'll work.

Jason

Not according to this...

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050627/275650.html?.v=1

Granted, it's just for their 52", but it seems like they're on schedule.

Jason


Does anyone know the dimensions of the 73" or the projected retail?

Now, what exactly is the relevence of all this Mits-blabber with regard to the topic of this thread, which is 'Sony SXRD 50" and 60" '......... ?

Now, what exactly is the relevence of all this Mits-blabber...
Just a harmless tangent...sheesh...comparing arrival dates between the new 1080p Mits and the new SXRD Sonys. Pretty relevant unless you know for sure that you're getting the SXRD sight unseen. Personally, I think there's still going to be a lot to choose from.

Jason

I know I'm not getting the Mits DLP, sight (and rainbows) unseen.

Sony Shifts Retail Operations Structure

By Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 6/24/2005 9:26:00 AM

New York — Responding to strong growth in its direct-to-consumer sales operations, Sony has realigned management responsibilities, shifting the online consumer electronics and Sony-branded retail stores to the consumer electronics group, Sony Electronics’ COO Hideki “Dick” Komiyama announced at roundtable conference with the press, here.

The e-commerce and retail store businesses, which were previously managed under Sony’s e-Solutions Company, have now been moved into the consumer electronics sales operation headed by Stan Glasgow, Sony’s U.S. consumer sales president.

Glasgow said Sony will continue to use its direct-marketing e-commerce and flagship Sony Style boutique stores as a vehicle for building Sony’s sales across all of its channels of distribution.

“We’re giving consumers a choice to shop anywhere [they] want,” Glasgow said. “We’re going to try to have a very open environment to allow consumers to shop, and we’re going to try to make sure there’s synergy between our online sales and our retail partners and between our stores and our retail partners.”

Glasgow, who said Sony will double the number of its stores to 30 this year, said the company has been successful at balancing its direct sales and its consumer electronics retail distribution, adding that he has not had one complaint from a retail partner about Sony’s stores.

“They don’t see them as a threat,” Glasgow said. “Number one, they’re too small. We don’t stock everything in the stores. We’re trying to sell a select range of products and inform the customer and demonstrate things.”

The shift was made in tandem with the realignment and expansion of Sony’s business-to-business sales into one company, which will bring together sales and product development teams to address the needs of various markets, Komiyama said.

“Previously, our other segment of the business was more or less fragmented and it functionally separated sales and marketing,” he said. In response Sony has established “a completely new platform” for business-to-business, focusing more directly on key product areas “while segmenting different markets such as education and government,” said Komiyama.

Also as part of the change, direct sales of Sony Vaio PCs to business-to-business clients, which was formerly handled through the e-Solutions Company, has moved to the new business-to-business operation, Komiyama said.

Komiyama said Sony Electronics North American sales operation “had another banner year,” in 2004, and is continuing to see growth as Howard Stringer, Sony’s newly approved worldwide chairman, leads a “turnaround” for the global organization.

Komiyama said Sony is following closely its three-year rejuvenation plan, called “Transformation 60,” which included last year’s relocation of its CE sales and marketing headquarters from Park Ridge, N.J., to San Diego. The goal is to complete the transformation around Sony’s 60th anniversary next year.

The move, Komiyama said, has helped solidify communication between engineering, sales, marketing and manufacturing, while speeding the time to market for innovative new technologies.

Komiyama acknowledged “concern” over certain market trends, including the rapid price compression in flat-panel televisions, and all digital technologies which have been exposed to the rapid commoditization of key components.

“However, I believe we have strong strategies for meeting these challenges,” Komiyama said.

Glasgow mapped out Sony’s display products strategy for 2005, showing the currently available 70W-inch Qualia 006 ($13,000) SXRD rear-projection microdisplay HDTV “at the very high end of the line.”

Below Qualia, Sony is extending the XBR sub-brand — which was once used to mark top of the line CRT TVs — to include flat-panel LCD and SXRD.

Glasgow said Sony will introduce in the fall 50W-inch and 60W-inch SXRD-based microdisplay rear-projection HDTV sets under the XBR line “at considerably lower pricing” than the current Qualia 006 model.

Below SXRD, by display type, are Sony’s 3LCD-based Grand Wega microdisplay rear-projection HDTV sets. Glasgow said Sony’s Grand Wega line is currently its largest consumer display segment. Kamiyama pointed to Grand Wega as one of Sony’s “vertically integrated” products that use Sony-manufactured key components such as high-temperature LCD panels.

“We are going to be highly competitive in microdisplay with our Grand Wega 3LCD line 42W-, 50W-, 55W- and 60W-inch models,” noted Glasgow. “We’ll be competitive against all the other rear-projection products.”

In flat-panel TV, Glasgow said Sony has scaled back its plasma TV offerings, but he added “we’re not out of it officially at this time.”

Glasgow noted that production has started at the new Sony Samsung LCD-panel joint venture factory, giving the company a core competency in flat-panel production. Sony will market three major flat-panel LCD lines including the entry S Series, which “will be highly competitive, even against the 50 to 60 brands now showing up in the United States,” Glasgow vowed, noting that Sony “won’t be the cheapest. That’s not our goal. But we will be competitive in terms of base LCD models.”

“Where we are really excelling is in stepping it up to higher performance” LCDs, Glasgow said.

Sony’s step-up V Series LCD TVs are positioned “for the more discerning XBR type of customer,” he said. The series will use enhanced CCFL backlighting to expand the color gamut, while using “a wider looking panel” with a faster response time.

At the high end, Sony will also deliver this year’s models using LED backlighting, which outperforms even CCFL, Glasgow said.

Glasgow said “Sony hasn’t given up on CRTs,” adding the company “will be responsive to whatever the market needs in terms of how these changes happen.”

Glasgow said as prices are driven down in Grand Wega and LCD, CRT, in turn, will have to move to lower price points.

In camcorders, Komiyama said Sony will be focusing its promotional push on DVD recordable models, which was one of Sony’s major strengths last year, and new high-definition models, including the company’s second model introduced in June.

Komiyama said Sony, once again, will make a strong push in the personal audio area this year. He cited the segment, which was once one of Sony’s most dominant categories, as a personal disappointment last year, and credited Apple Computer, which has dominated the market in recent years with its iPod products, for being a strong competitor.

To boost the personal audio business he said Sony will be working closely with key service partners and with Sony’s software businesses to deliver entertainment media for its hardware products.

In addition, Glasgow said Sony has had discussions about possibly including XM and Sirius reception functionality into future portable audio products — a move Apple was also considering.

Komiyama said Sony’s new direction under Stringer will help the company work more effectively as “one company” to leverage its various strengths for synergistic purposes.

He said Sony will be adding a new service and some hard-disk-based players soon. In the meantime, it is marketing a pair of new micro-sized flash memory-based personal audio players.

Sony has moved to include in its players open standards including MP3 and WMA.

The new efforts have helped Sony see “a strong resurgence” in market share within the flash-media-based personal-audio category, said Rick Clancy, Sony’s communications senior VP. Sony now holds the No. 1 market-share position for flash-memory personal-audio products in the Japan market, he said.

Sony’s Vaio PC business, meanwhile, continues to perform profitably, although the company has chosen to innovate rather than to “chase market share,” in the area, Komiyama said. Sony is preparing to market a Media Center PC “for the den” with certain living room functions later this year, to be followed with a full “living room”-based entertainment Media Center for next year.

Just a harmless tangent...sheesh...comparing arrival dates between the new 1080p Mits and the new SXRD Sonys. Pretty relevant unless you know for sure that you're getting the SXRD sight unseen. Personally, I think there's still going to be a lot to choose from.

Jason

I'm sorry to apparently have sheeshed you. It's not about 'harmless' or such, but keeping threads focussed and thus informative, without needlesly expanding in size and getting bogged down.
There is thread hijacking all over the place, which serves nobody. This thread isn't about which set to buy at the end of this year, nor is it about Mits. There are other threads for that, or one can start one. That also contributes to useful feedback, because Mits-users and -experts are more likely to show up there.

BTW, who said anything here about 'buying sight unseen'? Where did you read that?

Now, where was that Mits thread where I can ask about the dimensions of the upcoming Sony SXRD's? :)

I certainly wasn't trying to hijack the thread...I was just providing a link for Lew Black.

Jason

I certainly wasn't trying to hijack the thread...I was just providing a link for Lew Black.

Jason
I know that, and I'm sorry if I implied otherwise. I just meant to illustrate my angle on this. :)

Sony Shifts Retail Operations Structure

....Glasgow mapped out Sony’s display products strategy for 2005, showing the currently available 70W-inch Qualia 006 ($13,000) SXRD rear-projection microdisplay HDTV “at the very high end of the line.”

Below Qualia, Sony is extending the XBR sub-brand — which was once used to mark top of the line CRT TVs — to include flat-panel LCD and SXRD.

Glasgow said Sony will introduce in the fall 50W-inch and 60W-inch SXRD-based microdisplay rear-projection HDTV sets under the XBR line “at considerably lower pricing” than the current Qualia 006 model.

Below SXRD, by display type, are Sony’s 3LCD-based Grand Wega microdisplay rear-projection HDTV sets. Glasgow said Sony’s Grand Wega line is currently its largest consumer display segment. Kamiyama pointed to Grand Wega as one of Sony’s “vertically integrated” products that use Sony-manufactured key components such as high-temperature LCD panels.

“We are going to be highly competitive in microdisplay with our Grand Wega 3LCD line 42W-, 50W-, 55W- and 60W-inch models,” noted Glasgow. “We’ll be competitive against all the other rear-projection products.”




These quotes should get this thread kickstarted again....finally a confirmation of the 50" and 60" sets this fall from a "SONY" source...

I never doubted the other source. There is way too much skepticism here.

These quotes should get this thread kickstarted again....finally a confirmation of the 50" and 60" sets this fall from a "SONY" source...It's nice to see these will be XBR. The current XBRs are so long-in-the-tooth. It fills that gap in the familiar Sony lineup. I was hoping we wouldn't be paying for the Qualia name.

Will be curious to see what "considerably lower in pricing than the Qualia" means...

Does it mean under $5k for the 60" and under $4 for the 50"?

Also, does considerably lower in price also translate to considerdably lower quality?

I guess the coming months should answer these questions...

Now, what exactly is the relevence of all this Mits-blabber with regard to the topic of this thread, which is 'Sony SXRD 50" and 60" '......... ?


Well for me the relevance is that both these TV's fit my budget (hopefully) and I want to know if the Mitsu is even going to fit in both my cabinet and budget. I have not seen projected retail on the mitsu and if it is in the same price range its something worth considering.

Aren't most people here looking to inform themselves to make a knowledgeable purchase of big ticket item.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that these 50" and 60" XBR SXRDs will give you 90-95% of the performance of the Qualia 006. Just a hunch.

I'll probably pass until 2006/2007 unless these are truly spectacular.

Regards,
Dan

Well for me the relevance is that both these TV's fit my budget (hopefully) and I want to know if the Mitsu is even going to fit in both my cabinet and budget. I have not seen projected retail on the mitsu and if it is in the same price range its something worth considering.

Aren't most people here looking to inform themselves to make a knowledgeable purchase of big ticket item.
Then create a new thread about the Mits, or find an existing one like this one http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=554147
Thats all people are saying, lets keep the threads on topic. You are likely to find out the size of the new Mits in a Mits thread, not the Sony SXRD 50" and 60" thread. :)

I wouldn't be surprised if the new SXRD sets are better than the Qualia 06 in some ways - CR for one...

My two cents on the price difference between the Q-006 and the new XBR: size and optics. The '06 will be the only 70". Also the '06 optic engine is apparently very similar to the one used in the $30,000 Q-004. My bet is the XBR will get a more conventional (and cheaper) optic block quite possibly using the smaller .61 chips that have been mentioned. With the smaller screens, this could still give you a knock-out picture quality. That is where the expensive stuff is. The rest of the feature set (I/O's and the like) are cheaper and would likely be tweaked to keep the XBR still at the top of the competition, and well ahead of the LCD's. A worthy tier under the 006. That's my guess.

Dave W.

I figure 2006 or 2007 might see the addition of the 70" to the XBR line. For now, it seems the 70" will be only available as a Qualia.

Regards,
Dan

Sony will lose a lot of potential sales if they do not lower the price of the Qualia 6 or produce a 70" SXRD in the XBR line. Hitachi, LG, and JVC will all have competing 1080p LCOS sets in that size. If Sony can achieve such low prices as it states for the 50" and 60" SXRD, I'm sure they can do so for a 70".

Sony will lose a lot of potential sales if they do not lower the price of the Qualia 6 or produce a 70" SXRD in the XBR line. Hitachi, LG, and JVC will all have competing 1080p LCOS sets in that size. If Sony can achieve such low prices as it states for the 50" and 60" SXRD, I'm sure they can do so for a 70".

A lot of sales?

These gigantic RPTVs sell in the four units per month nationally. And not the high four units. Internationally, they don't even really exist.

A lot of sales?

These gigantic RPTVs sell in the four units per month nationally. And not the high four units. Internationally, they don't even really exist.
And a lot of people seem to forget that Qualia is a prestige line, which Sony doesn't really expect to sell in large volume. The 006 shares its name with the Qualia 004 ($25K front-projector), the Qualia 010 ($2.6K headphones), the Qualia 016 ($5.1K 2-megapixel digital camera), the Qualia 017 ($2.4K gold-plated Minidisc player)... I don't think Qualia products exist to sell themselves, they exist to sell the rest of Sony's line by impressing people with how freakin' cool Sony products can be.

Another example that I'm familiar with -- before the Qualia line arrived, Sony's top-of-the-line prestige headphone was the MDR-R10, priced at $4000. Before they discontinued it, Sony Japan accepted orders for the R10 at the rate of exactly one unit a month (with a several-month lead time), and given the materials and the amount of skilled craftsmanship that went into that headphone, they were probably still losing money on each one.

On the other hand, having heard the R10 on several occasions, I can say that it's very nearly worth the price... ;)

A lot of sales?

These gigantic RPTVs sell in the four units per month nationally. And not the high four units. Internationally, they don't even really exist.

rogo, are you referring to the sale of 70" RPTVs in general (i.e., across all brands/technologies) selling at a rate of 4/mo. or just the Qualia? I believe the original poster was referring to the fact that Sony will miss out on the 70" market if the don't provide a cost competitive 70" SXRD.

And a lot of people seem to forget that Qualia is a prestige line, which Sony doesn't really expect to sell in large volume. The 006 shares its name with the Qualia 004 ($25K front-projector), the Qualia 010 ($2.6K headphones), the Qualia 016 ($5.1K 2-megapixel digital camera), the Qualia 017 ($2.4K gold-plated Minidisc player)... I don't think Qualia products exist to sell themselves, they exist to sell the rest of Sony's line by impressing people with how freakin' cool Sony products can be.

Another example that I'm familiar with -- before the Qualia line arrived, Sony's top-of-the-line prestige headphone was the MDR-R10, priced at $4000. Before they discontinued it, Sony Japan accepted orders for the R10 at the rate of exactly one unit a month (with a several-month lead time), and given the materials and the amount of skilled craftsmanship that went into that headphone, they were probably still losing money on each one.

On the other hand, having heard the R10 on several occasions, I can say that it's very nearly worth the price... ;)


People also forget that it was shown as an XBR at Cedia and priced at 10,000. So what changed in 6 months? Nothing, Sony realized they did not have the capability to mass produce the chips yet, so they put a Qualia badge on the XBR and sold it for 13,000. I don't even consider the 006 a true Qualia product since it never was intended to be a Qualia.

rogo, are you referring to the sale of 70" RPTVs in general (i.e., across all brands/technologies) selling at a rate of 4/mo. or just the Qualia? I believe the original poster was referring to the fact that Sony will miss out on the 70" market if the don't provide a cost competitive 70" SXRD.

I think maybe he meant four digits per month? As in 1000-9999 per month for all tv's that size? Anyway, that's the way I read it.

This is taken from endgadget but since we are all hungry for SXRD info I thought this might be a fun diversion for a moment

Commercial SXRD 4k projector. Yes this should probably be lnked in the highend projector forum but I doubt even those guys would be picking this up. Its fun to look at either way. :D

http://www.sonybiz.net/4k

A lot of sales?

These gigantic RPTVs sell in the four units per month nationally. And not the high four units. Internationally, they don't even really exist.


Yes this is probably true, but 5 years ago, or even three, Plasma sales were in this range and now..... Would you have considered a 70" tv 3 years ago?? I wouldn't. Mainly because of price! But now you can pick up a Mitsu 73" crt for 4K. Next year maybe 3500. As the price drops why spend 4500 for a 60 when you can spend 5 for a 70. It just brings that size into focus for alot more buyers. More buyer, more sales. If you keep the price in the 5 figure range sales will remain in the mid to low 4 figure range.

Remember that the ladies have always said "Bigger is ALWAYS better" As much as you hate to admit that its true!

This is taken from endgadget but since we are all hungry for SXRD info I thought this might be a fun diversion for a moment

Commercial SXRD 4k projector.

http://www.sonybiz.net/4k

Why is it called 4K? Isn't 4096 x 2160 resolution 8K pixels?

Correction: I guess I'm thinking 8 megapixels.

A lot of sales?

These gigantic RPTVs sell in the four units per month nationally. And not the high four units. Internationally, they don't even really exist.

Abt Electronics has been selling about 10 Qualia 006s per month.

Blue 911,

The "4k" refers to the horz. res, not total pixel count. Up to now,
2k (2048) horz. projectors have been top dog. I think (somebody help) that this relates to the film in that 2k will have visible pixels, but 4k reduces pixels to at or below grain size, or at least something like that. Thats as far as I can go!

Dave W.

I think maybe he meant four digits per month? As in 1000-9999 per month for all tv's that size? Anyway, that's the way I read it.

Yes, I meant four figures. The fingers dropped a word on the way from the brain to the keyboard. 70-inch RPTVs do not sell 100,000 units a year. Not even close.

Yes this is probably true, but 5 years ago, or even three, Plasma sales were in this range and now..... Would you have considered a 70" tv 3 years ago?? I wouldn't. Mainly because of price! But now you can pick up a Mitsu 73" crt for 4K. Next year maybe 3500. As the price drops why spend 4500 for a 60 when you can spend 5 for a 70. It just brings that size into focus for alot more buyers. More buyer, more sales. If you keep the price in the 5 figure range sales will remain in the mid to low 4 figure range.

Remember that the ladies have always said "Bigger is ALWAYS better" As much as you hate to admit that its true!

There were 70-inch RPTVs a decade ago.

HDTV is good. Slightly slimmer depth is good.

But houses are not dramatically larger. And wives are not dramatically blinder.

70-inch RPTVs are a tiny niche product.

The only thing that will expand the niche a lot is 70-inch flat panels -- which are a few years from being affordable.

I'd guess that the 70" 1080p microdisplay tv market will be quite substantial when the price drops to $3000-$4000, as it probably will within 3 years.

I'd guess that the 70" 1080p microdisplay tv market will be quite substantial when the price drops to $3000-$4000, as it probably will within 3 years.

Not many people need a display that big. In most normal sized rooms it would be overpowering. (Of course to the techies who read the AVS forum nothing is too big!) :D :D :D

(Of course to the techies who read the AVS forum nothing is too big!) :D :D :D
Some things in life are relative. When I first began shopping for an HDTV, the 42"ers looked great and the 50's seemed large. Now after looking at 60 and 70" Sonys, the 50's seem so small. You just don't get the "theater" effect. I guess I'll have to start looking at projectors next.

Again, living rooms are not getting bigger (well, not in great numbers anyway). And people are not getting more blind.

The market for 70-inch TVs is not being held back by price. It's held back by lack of demand. I could see if the wall-sized TV of the sci-fi future becomes $1000-2000 the market expanding. But 70-inch LCOS and DLP sets are hardly going to expand the market even at $3000-4000. There will be more sold than now, of course, but hardly torrents.

Not many people need a display that big.
I'd love something in the 70" range if the prices came down below 6k for a decent set. We've got a new house with a "great room" (yuk) and a 70" (or larger) would be perfect. Anything smaller would seem puny. Currently we shoot a 12' picture via front PJ onto the wall...not that we could afford a 144" RPTV! :D

Jason

If Americans can embrace SUVs they can embrace 70-inch + displays! Who knows...maybe one day people will actually have HOME THEATERS!

If Americans can embrace SUVs they can embrace 70-inch + displays! Who knows...maybe one day people will actually have HOME THEATERS!


Have any of your friends put an SUV in their living room?? Now that was meant mostly as a joke, but do consider how many of your friends have a 60" or 65" set and that will give you some insight into just how many would be interested in the 70", 72" and 73" sets that are coming out.

What drives people to 70" sets or maybe a better question is what keeps people from the 70" sets. For some money, but for most, they just think their too big.

Us geeky type, you know, the ones that hang upside down from a 20' ladder to install a satellite dish in windy weather, size is more a function of how large can we go and maintain reasonably good detail(and for those who are married, maintain marital harmony)

size is more a function of how large can we go and maintain reasonably good detail(and for those who are married, maintain marital harmony)
Amen.

No pictured of these sets yet?

Regards,
Dan

You would be surprised by the number of people interested in "large TV's" I know allot of people don't see the NEED for a large set until one of their friends gets one. I don't know if its "keeping up with the Jones" or they were relatively unaware of their existence, but demand is climbing. Right now I would say that most people in the market for a large screen tv make a decision based on price. They determine the Biggest set/with best picture they can afford. Not, well thats just too big! Let look at this smaller one. I'm in the building industry and houses have much larger living spaces, and here in FL we have "bonus rooms" usually something along the lines of 20'x20'. With kitchens being "open" to the living room people want large tvs so they can watch while in the kitchen.

Basically I disagree that there isn't a large market for 70" + displays. I think up until now they have been tooooooo large or too expensive for most buyers. The Mitsu 73 has smaller width dimensions then the 61" 4:3 display I own now! They pack more screen into less space and this makes the larger TV's more appealing to more buyers. If you look at the 26" flat panels, chances are your looking to put them in your kitchen or bathroom, not your living room or bedroom. Years ago a 27" tv was a large living room set. Now people who don't watch tv have 27" in there living room. All the people I know have large tv's including my 70 year old parents with a 42" Sony. The market is only growing!

JimP: Being a former porn star I guess I am a little bit biased! If anything is too big there are always do it yourself workarounds--20 years from now houses will be built with 73-inch entertainment centers. You'll still have people crying hear at the forum because their 75-inch display won't fit--life is cruel when you're too big but you shouldn't be small about it!

One thing that has changed over the recent years that makes 70"+ more desirable is resolution.

60"+ CRT set of years ago were hard to watch. With dim 480i magnifying the picture to horrible "looking through fence posts" proportions, yuck! I liked my 27" better because of the crisp picture.

But now, I have spent time watching large 1080P sets (LCOS, not yet on the market, cant tell you any more..) with DVHS, OTA HD feeds and yes even Blu-Ray recorded off the air HD movies (Attack of the Clones, very nice!) and I want one! Even in my small Tokyo apartment!

With 720P 70" is too big. With 1080p 70" is about right. (that is until I spent some time watching the 004 FP (still 1080p) on a 100" screen in a smaller room, then that felt just about right...)

The right size is all about resolution!!

But with all that said, the sweet spot for large volumes of TVs might move up from 27" to 40", but it will never be 70"...

"With 720P 70" is too big...."

Every front projector adopter save <1% of them would disagree with you.


"But with all that said, the sweet spot for large volumes of TVs might move up from 27" to 40", but it will never be 70"..."

Right.

How about if I qualify it with "FOR ME and the projector adopters if they spent some time with 1080p"?

Hey all. I have been following the New 720p model thread for a couple months. I ventured over these parts, considering the 50" 1080p set.

What is the projected date for these sets, the 50" in particular? I realize there is NO definite date but what is the closet people have heard?

At the 50" size at 8 - 9' away, eyeball to screen, would you say the 1080p will be a great improvement in PQ? I know this is guess right now but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

NickHDTV,

I'm in a similar position. The delay in the 50" LCD A10 has given me time to start wondering whether I should wait for the 50" SXRD. I can't find anything that contradicts the rumored November release date given in this thread at various times.

With the SXRDs we should be getting Cinema Black Pro, plus the inherently better CR and fill ratio of the technology, plus 2 HDMI inputs, plus of course 1080p.

As long as SD DVDs look as good or better as they do on a 720p set, I may have to cough up the extra for SXRD.

Thanks. I wasn't sure if the dates of Oct/Nov had changed.

I have 3k budgeted right now for the 50 A10 but could possibly save or finance another 1,000. I think I will be lingering in this thread now too.

Thanks. I wasn't sure if the dates of Oct/Nov had changed.

I have 3k budgeted right now for the 50 A10 but could possibly save or finance another 1,000. I think I will be lingering in this thread now too.

Yep, I'm in the same boat as well. :rolleyes: Comparing/waiting for a few small 720p RPTs (Samsung HLR5067W, Panasonic PT-44LCX65, Sony 50" 720p A10), and have also started contemplating a jump up to 1080p.

I'm also curious what the current estimates are on whether or not the jump to 1080p will be noticeable in a 50" set from 8-12' away ...

I'm hoping these still have twin view unlike the A10/20's. Just checked to see if the Qualia has it (it does).

"I'm also curious what the current estimates are on whether or not the jump to 1080p will be noticeable in a 50" set from 8-12' away ..."

At 8 feet away, it'll be noticeable. At 12 feet away, not a chance. In between there exists a continuum of maybe..

If you can wait a few months, I would recommend it...

There are always new models announced in the fall.

Treat resolution like PC memory and horsepower, buy as much as you can afford. You can never have too much ..

"I'm also curious what the current estimates are on whether or not the jump to 1080p will be noticeable in a 50" set from 8-12' away ..."

At 8 feet away, it'll be noticeable. At 12 feet away, not a chance. In between there exists a continuum of maybe..


Rogo,

Thanks for that bit. I thought it was opposite - the closer, the less you will notice the difference. I now realize that the closer, the better the advantage of 1080p.

I will be 8-9 ft from a 50"

Treat resolution like PC memory and horsepower, buy as much as you can afford. You can never have too much ..How true!

"I'm also curious what the current estimates are on whether or not the jump to 1080p will be noticeable in a 50" set from 8-12' away ..."

At 8 feet away, it'll be noticeable. At 12 feet away, not a chance. In between there exists a continuum of maybe..

Thanks for the advice, too, Rogo.

Looks like I'll have to get a little more careful with the room layout if I decide to jump at a 1080p set. Right now The Chair puts me 11-12' from the screen, depending upon how much slouching and reclining occurs. Diagonal viewing at the far end of both couches is at about 9'. I can't go larger than the typical compact 50" ... ah, the folly of buying the furniture before before the set. :p

The great thing is that the cabinet design of the upcoming 50" SXRD and the upcoming 50" 720p A10 are both perfect for our entertainment cabinet. Some Samsung DLPs will work as well. And realistically, the wife and I love our furniture and will be very happy with a set of that size after subsisting on a 27" Sony Wega CRT for several years.

Whatever we do, we're going to love making the step up. :D

The great thing is that the cabinet design of the upcoming 50" SXRD

Where did you find a description and/or photo of the SXRD cabinet design? Please share! :D

And realistically, the wife and I love our furniture and will be very happy with a set of that size after subsisting on a 27" Sony Wega CRT for several years.

My wife and I have subsisted on a 27" Sony all our married life (admittedly that's only a few years), but it's not even a Wega, it's a regular Trinitron! :o Lovely picture, though; analogue can still look beautiful.

It's amazing how quickly I'm getting excited by the idea of waiting for the 50" SXRD rather than jumping in and getting the 720p A10. :)

Where did you find a description and/or photo of the SXRD cabinet design? Please share! :D

Heh! I think I just got caught fibbing :eek: ... Now that I think about it more, I might be remembering downloading the photo of a different set ... too many sets to keep track of! ... I'll double-check and let you know if I find anything on it.

Edit:
Ummm, yeah ... I'll try to smoke a little less crack the next time I post. :cool: Sorry for the silly assumption on the SXRD cabinet design. I think in my excitement in seeing the specs on the 720p 50" A10, in my head I magically projected those rough dimensions onto the SXRD, assuming that they'd go with the new compact design. We shall see ...

Calbert, anytime. And I agree with the others. The extra pixels won't hurt -- except in the pocketbook.

The room is unlikely to change in size at any point, so you might consider saving the money and going with 720p.

Hard to go too wrong either way, though.

I think that SXRD vs. LCD would make a bigger difference in picture quality than 1080p vs. 720p. If resolution was the only difference I would definitely get the A10 and save the money. But I'm hoping that the SXRD sets are a real step up over the LCDs.

stk

I think the dynamic iris will make the difference. Having it on the SXRD sets and not the LCD sets may give the impression that the SXRD sets have better contrast and dynamic range. Wonder how they would compare if they put the dynamic iris on the LCD sets as well.

The 42" and 50" A10s will be the first LCD sets with the dynamic iris. So it will be interesting to see how good they are. The strange thing is that they will be Sony's least expensive digital RP sets. So if the dynamic iris makes the A10s better than the other LCD sets and comparable to the SXRDs, they will be a serious bargain.