Blazing Ridge Cinema construction has begun! [Text View] - Page 11

chinadog

08-20-06, 08:33 AM

chinadog

08-20-06, 08:46 AM

I went ahead and ordered alder corbels for the bar as well. They're pretty nice, not too fancy and are the right size. I'll be able to stain them to match as well. Should give the bar that little extra something. They will be visible from the sitting area, so I wanted to do something nice and functional. The corbels actually cost more than the lumber I bought yesterday!

http://www.premierwood.com/catalog/ProdImages/cosmocorbel%20LRg.jpg
http://www.premierwood.com/catalog/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=835

Bud

chinadog

08-20-06, 08:54 AM

I also found out about a place that does stain matching. I want to match the color of the front of the bar with the new cabinets. Apparently you bring in a sample that you want to match, like a door and a piece of scrap wood you want to use and they'll mix up a stain for you. It's called Wood Finishers Supply (http://www.woodfinisherssupply.com/nof-index.shtml) and they have multiple locations/distributors, including one here close to me. Click on the complete list of locations (http://www.woodfinisherssupply.com/distributors.shtml).

The one in Atlanta can be found here:

Wood Finisher's Supply
1454 Field Park Circle
Marietta, GA. 30066
(800) 451-0678

Bud

mflanagan

08-20-06, 08:55 AM

I just bought some Plaster corbels for my bar (Painting them) and It's one off the coolest details I could have done for the bar. You wont regret the extra cost. Plus it keeps Mr. heavy Elbows from loosening your bartop. LOL

Flan

VorlonFog

08-20-06, 08:59 AM

Bud: With just that trim taped into place it's easy to see it's gonna look great. I read where you got your granite delivery scheduled, too. How's your toe and how's the commute working out so far?

chinadog

08-20-06, 09:07 AM

Keith,

I think it's gonna be great. I'll post some more shots later today. Granite is scheduled for the 30th.

The toe is pretty good, the swelling is pretty much gone finally. A few twinges of pain here or there, not bad though. The commute is tolerable. 50-60 mins during rush hour on good days. I'm looking at trying to hook up with some folks on a car pool, just to cut down on the gas expense (truck) and wear and tear. I may be shifting buildings in a few weeks, so until thats done, I'm on my own. The company will help you find people to carpool with and if there is enough interest, they'll even pay for a van for a vanpool. Mass transit is not an option, I don't live anywhere near the train system (Marta), but if it was, they'd pay for that as well.

Thanks for asking.

Bud

chinadog

08-20-06, 09:08 AM

jmfox01

08-20-06, 10:15 AM

Yesterday I managed to get to Peach State Lumber and buy some alder. I bought 12 8' boards all width varying widths (thats how they sell it), with a minimum of about 5 inches. After talking with the guy for a while, he gave me the contractor rate, so I was pleasantly surprised. I also talked to him about matching plywood, since they didn't carry alder ply (apparently its too expensive, so nobody uses it) and he recommended red birch ply, which they carry in 1/4" and 3/4".

My son had baseball in the afternoon, so I didn't get to do much yesterday on the bar, but did manage to rip all the wood down to the 4.5 inch widths required based on my calculations for the layout. Turns out that 4.5" widths will allow me to have all the panels approximately 18.25 inches wide. It varies just slightly from section to section, but its real close and won't be noticeable. I got lucky there...

I made a few cuts for the angles (22.5 degrees) needed for the angled corners. I just used some blue tape temporarily to hold them in place so I could measure the next piece. Here are those shots.

Today I'll work on the vertical pieces and tie it all together.

Bud

If you are planning to join those with the Kreg jig, the angles on the mating ends should be cut to 90 degrees and 45 degrees, not 22.5 and 22.5. Logic says 22.5 but if you do, the screw points will stick out of the mating piece (geez, I wonder how I know that :rolleyes: ). Buried in the bowels of the Kreg manual is the recommended way to miter join a 45.

It seems like you are trying to keep all of the wood trim in this project the same, but for anyone else considering a bar application like this, this area would be perfect for using a figured wood to add some wow factor. West Penn Hardwoods and other online dealers carry some really impressive stuff. (on West Penn's site, click the "wood products" link, then select "highly Figured lumber"). I recently built my daughter a poker table with a top rail of curly quartersawn white oak and the 3 dimensional figure in it is very cool looking. Sorry, I don't have 5 posts yet so can't attach pictures :(

chinadog

08-20-06, 10:32 AM

If you are planning to join those with the Kreg jig, the angles on the mating ends should be cut to 90 degrees and 45 degrees, not 22.5 and 22.5. Logic says 22.5 but if you do, the screw points will stick out of the mating piece (geez, I wonder how I know that :rolleyes: ). Buried in the bowels of the Kreg manual is the recommended way to miter join a 45.

It seems like you are trying to keep all of the wood trim in this project the same, but for anyone else considering a bar application like this, this area would be perfect for using a figured wood to add some wow factor. West Penn Hardwoods and other online dealers carry some really impressive stuff. (on West Penn's site, click the "wood products" link, then select "highly Figured lumber"). I recently built my daughter a poker table with a top rail of curly quartersawn white oak and the 3 dimensional figure in it is very cool looking. Sorry, I don't have 5 posts yet so can't attach pictures :(

On the posts, there is a test area you can use to fill your quota. Check the main forums page and scroll to the bottom. I didn't plan on using the jig for those joints. I'll build three separate frames and basically butt them up againest each either. I was going to use the jig for joints between the horizontal and vertical pieces only.

Which leads me to to the question ... why don't I just build it on the wall piece by piece using some contruction adhesive and some stragetically placed 2" brads? Besides stronger joints, any other advantage? I am NOT a woodworker, I just pretend to be one on TV....

Bud

accts4mjs

08-20-06, 11:26 AM

I don't see why you wouldn't do it that way to be honest. I think the kreg is better suited for face frames and boxes. For what you're trying to do just gluing and nailing it to the front of the bar is the way to go. I'd just use some 16ga 1-1/2" or 2" nails and good old yellow wood glue. Construction adhesive would work fine too, but you wouldn't have to.

The birch ply is pretty flexible in terms of staining it to match other woods. Sounds like you could take it with you (along with the alder) when you match your cabinet wood and then you'd know for sure it would match.

I agree with one of the other posters about trying a contrasting look with your panels. If you thought about doing that you might ask the stain store for their advice. It'd be awful to put all that work into it to only have it look bad (I'm not saying you would, just if I did it, chances are it would for me ;) -- I'm not good at things like colors, but if I get the right advice I can do the implementation if you know what I mean).

Mike

chinadog

08-20-06, 11:59 AM

VorlonFog

08-20-06, 12:40 PM

I'll hash through the panels again. Maybe it does make sense to do the insert of the panels something completely different. I'll chew on that. I had a particular look in mind, maybe I'll do the inserts something completely different. The good news is that all I need to do to get the counters installed is to build the frame from the alder and add the corbels. The panel inserts can be done later. I could even just paint the drywall behind it for now and experiment later.I think your idea of painting the drywall and experimenting later sounds great. I just wish I was that patient :rolleyes:.

Have you ever seen inset panels where the wood grain is turned to a different angle (typically 45 degrees) with respect to the background? That's one I've seen and although I don't agree with it personally, it's one very different idea that might kickstart others. You could also consider staining the trim molding around the center panel a slightly darker color in the same family. It would add just a bit of accent beyond the frame itself without detracting from the beauty of the wood behind it. I'll wager your hardwood dealer could provide some new or unusual suggestions, too. Whatever you decide to do, I'm certain it will turn out great. :D

BritInVA

08-20-06, 01:36 PM

Hi Bud, I would think that using the kreg jig for you panel frames joins will give you better alignment on the face and tight tighter joins. I'm still trying to decide myself between the kreg and a biscuit joiner for my panelling.

While I was at Disney I took some pics of the British Pub bar in Epcot.

http://users.adelphia.net/~abiandjordan/ht/DisPub2.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~abiandjordan/ht/DisPub1.jpg

Looked pretty authentic.

chinadog

08-20-06, 06:32 PM

I finished the layout of the panels and plan on pulling it all back off and sanding it this week. Next Saturday, I'll go to the stain place and start staining.

I built three separate panels and butt them up against each other. Since the bar is made with two 45 degree turns, where the panels meet, I cut those sides at 22.5 degrees. It was each to cut the horizontal pieces at 22.5 degrees, since my compound mitre has the angle notched out as a standard cut. FOr the vertical pieces, I had to run the piece through the table saw with the angle set at 22.5 degrees. I got the angle on the table saw by using a scrap piece of wood I cut on the mitre saw at 22.5 degrees and layed it flat on the table saw. I then adjust the blade so it laid flush with the cut. After that, I had to just make sure the fence was the right distance for it only took off the back of side of the board.

I used scrap pieces of wood as a stop for the panels once laid up on the knee wall. This would simulate the bottom of the granite countertop and makes it flush. I just screwed them into the top of the 2x6 for the bar. I gave myself just a fraction of an inch on the bottom for shims to ensure I can get everything flush under the counter. Once secured, the gap will be covered with quarter round.

So here's the smallest panel being put together. First I mark each board while still on the wall so I know which is which and what side is the front. I used blue tap for that. I then have to flip the who panel upside down on a surface to use the jig. This picture shows the jog clamped and flush to the side of the board where the joint will be.
http://images18.fotki.com/v339/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1632-vi.jpg

Close up of the jig in position. Nice foot.
http://images18.fotki.com/v339/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1633-vi.jpg

Here's what it looks like after drilling the wholes. I'm using 3/4 inch stock, so the jig is set to a 3/4 position for perfect distance and hole depth. If you use other sized stock lumber, the whole will be a little further away from the end. These holes will get 3/4 inch screws. Wood glue between the boards.
http://images18.fotki.com/v339/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1634-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v340/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1635-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v339/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1636-vi.jpg

So here is what the bar looks like dry fit. So far, so good.
http://images18.fotki.com/v339/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1631-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v339/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1630-vi.jpg

Each of the open slots is approximately 18 3/8 with a couple being 18 1/4. You'd never see it with the human eye though.

Overall, the jig worked well and it went together quickly. Easier than biscuits. I assume biscuits would be stronger, but this is suffiicient for this purpose. Thanks for the recommendation.

Bud

chinadog

08-20-06, 06:35 PM

Have you ever seen inset panels where the wood grain is turned to a different angle (typically 45 degrees) with respect to the background? That's one I've seen and although I don't agree with it personally, it's one very different idea that might kickstart others. You could also consider staining the trim molding around the center panel a slightly darker color in the same family. It would add just a bit of accent beyond the frame itself without detracting from the beauty of the wood behind it.

I have not seen a 45 degree panel. Not sure I'd like that. I like your idea about the darker moulding. I plan on using molding to hold the panel in place, so that's not a bad idea once I figure out the panel color itself.

Bud

chinadog

08-20-06, 06:38 PM

Hi Bud, I would think that using the kreg jig for you panel frames joins will give you better alignment on the face and tight tighter joins. I'm still trying to decide myself between the kreg and a biscuit joiner for my panelling.

Mark, I'm been in that pub at Epcot. Pretty nice. I think the jig works well, gives you a very flat joint as well. I used the included screws with the jig, but they were fine and I ran out of them, so I used course 3/4 deck screws from there and that seemed to work better with this wood. I believe they say to use course screws on softer wood. I think I'd use it again if I had to do it again. Biscuits work well, but more work.

Bud

new_to_this

08-20-06, 07:28 PM

Hi Bud, I would think that using the kreg jig for you panel frames joins will give you better alignment on the face and tight tighter joins. I'm still trying to decide myself between the kreg and a biscuit joiner for my panelling.

While I was at Disney I took some pics of the British Pub bar in Epcot.

Looked pretty authentic.

Hey, I was at that bar 10, err, uh 14 years ago. Man, where does the time go?

China, everything looks great. I see you around everywhere, especially the Flyin thread. Great stuff in here.

accts4mjs

08-20-06, 07:30 PM

Nice job bud, that looks really sweet! I think the kreg jig provides a joint at least as strong if not stronger than biscuits (that's what the magazines claim and I've done both and would agree). It's what all the cabinet shops use around here so it must be good or they wouldn't bother (warranty calls are business killers).

If you're still looking for options if you want a slightly higher end look you could go with some burled veneer over 1/4" ply and cut them into 4 quarters turned 45 deg to center (if you can picture that). Or even just the burl by itself (easier to install). Just a thought :)

Mike

chinadog

08-20-06, 07:50 PM

If you're still looking for options if you want a slightly higher end look you could go with some burled veneer over 1/4" ply and cut them into 4 quarters turned 45 deg to center (if you can picture that). Or even just the burl by itself (easier to install). Just a thought :)

Mike, I can look up the burled stuff, but can't picture what you mean by the second part. So are you thinking it would look almost diamond shaped? Of use four separate quarters and rotate each piece, sort of like an inlay?

Bud

chinadog

08-20-06, 07:52 PM

Hey, I was at that bar 10, err, uh 14 years ago. Man, where does the time go?

China, everything looks great. I see you around everywhere, especially the Flyin thread. Great stuff in here.

Thanks, I try and spread myself thin. :D Too thin sometimes...

Bud

hltr

08-20-06, 08:46 PM

Overall, the jig worked well and it went together quickly. Easier than biscuits. I assume biscuits would be stronger, but this is suffiicient for this purpose. Thanks for the recommendation.

Bud

Hey C-Dog nice work as always. Can you believe how simple that Kreg is to use? And for what it's worth, I'm not so certain that biscuits are stronger. The depth and bite on the screws is tougher imo, especially if you go with the bigger sizes. In any case, strength is not much of an issue for your application. Those rails and stiles aren't going anywhere, right?

Would be fun to test biscuits/pocket holes on a demo sometime. :-)

accts4mjs

08-20-06, 08:48 PM

Mike, I can look up the burled stuff, but can't picture what you mean by the second part. So are you thinking it would look almost diamond shaped? Of use four separate quarters and rotate each piece, sort of like an inlay?

Bud

Not quite an inlay, just more of fancy veneering I guess (I'm sure that's the term for it ;) ).

Here's an example of just two pieces turned 45 degrees:
http://www.harpgallery.com/html/pictures.php?prod_id=1165&imagenum=7&name=bedsetdecosm6.JPG

These pieces have various types of veneering examples:
http://www.goantiques.com/scripts/images,id,592525.html

And some more (these are really top end examples):
http://www.deco-dence.com/generic.html;$sessionid$F1INOYQAAANSHTZENUFETIWPERWRJPX0?pid =49

I realize these are all Art Deco examples (it is what I like after all so I'm more familiar with it) but I think it also helps portray what I'm trying to describe. More or less I'm just trying to add to your endless possibilities to choose from -- that's helping, right?! :p

Mike

hltr

08-20-06, 08:59 PM

By the way Bud... if it were me I would now rabbit the backside of those openings with your router so your panels will sit nicely. IF you are going with panels that is.

accts4mjs

08-20-06, 09:23 PM

Do the panels, do the panels -- it'll look a ton better than painted :D

(Did I say that out loud?)

Mike

r00ster

08-20-06, 10:52 PM

chinadog

08-20-06, 10:56 PM

By the way Bud... if it were me I would now rabbit the backside of those openings with your router so your panels will sit nicely. IF you are going with panels that is.

Oh defintely going panels, no doubt. Planned on using some sort of trim to hold them in place, but need to figure it out still. One step at a time...

Bud

chinadog

08-20-06, 11:00 PM

Hey Bud, the bar is looking nice. I think the kreg is perfect for what you are doing. I have both and for large frames I like the kreg. My bar will be similar to what you are doing. I am a month or so out from that though. For what it's worth I think a single stain color looks better IMO. It is more Irish authentic anyway ;) Keep up the great work....

Oh yeah where is the beer tap?

Drew

Drew,

Had a few choices. One, beer fridge where the existing fridge is. Two, where the dishwasher is. Three, I put an outlet in the closet, I can put a keg fridge in the closet and I have a wall tap , so I just run the tubing through the wall. Leaning towards option three, but need to do some research still.....

I think the single color is more "pub-ish" which is what I was leaning towards, but I'll maybe work on a few options and post here for opinions.

Bud

hltr

08-20-06, 11:06 PM

Oh defintely going panels, no doubt. Planned on using some sort of trim to home them in place, but need to figure it out still. One step at a time...

Bud

Gotcha. Well if you're gonna trim 'em out then I guess you can just liquid nail those panels. Then then trim doesn't have to "hold" anything.

Hey.. about the keg. My uncle has one that's not real close to the tapper and he's got problems with too much foam. I don't know if the distance is the problem or what. Just a thought as you research.

BoblK

08-20-06, 11:13 PM

Hi Bud,

Greetings from China

The bar looks real good. Those panels, corbles and that granite top will really make it look fantastic. How do you like working with the alder compared to the maple you were looking at?

Bob

chinadog

08-21-06, 06:27 AM

Hey Bob,

Thanks. I haven't tried to stain anything yet, but expect it'll take stain well. It's softer than the maple and pretty easy to work with so far. This is my first experience with alder and so far I'm pretty happy with it.

Bud

chinadog

08-21-06, 06:33 AM

Hey.. about the keg. My uncle has one that's not real close to the tapper and he's got problems with too much foam. I don't know if the distance is the problem or what. Just a thought as you research.

If I go that route, I'll keep that in mind. My run shold be pretty short. The closet is right behind the bar, so it should be short. I'm not sure I'm going to do it. The other problem is that there won't be any room fo a nice tap handle, I'll be limited on vertical space since it'll have to go under the cabinets.

Bud

david_pflanzer

08-21-06, 08:52 AM

If I go that route, I'll keep that in mind. My run shold be pretty short. The closet is right behind the bar, so it should be short. I'm not sure I'm going to do it. The other problem is that there won't be any room fo a nice tap handle, I'll be limited on vertical space since it'll have to go under the cabinets.

Bud

Beer is my other passion... I currently have six beers on tap (all home brewed) and my guests love the selection. I'm sure your bar area will be a hit.

Here is some further advice for your install...

Your beer line can really be any distance from the keg to the tap. The longer the flow line the higher you will have to pressure the keg. When you change keg pressures it takes a while for it to take affect because the co2 absorption is a slow process. However, longer beer lines will drop the temp of the beer and are more time consuming to clean and replace (yes, you should clean your tap lines every month or so) so under six foot is ideal. Also, keep all the beer lines at the same length, this allows you to share a common tank between multiple beers and still retain the same pressure.

If you have space in the closet consider a small upright chest freezer with an external temp controller. This is often the cheapest way to go and will allow you to have more than one keg on tap.

For english ales and Guinness make sure you get a special tank with the co2/nitrogen mix for that creamy head. You will also need a special tap.

Do you like to cook? Well making beer is just like cooking, consider making your house beer. How about Blazing Ridge Wheat/Amber/IPA/Bitter??

Good luck,

David.

HeyNow^

08-21-06, 08:53 AM

I'm rooting for floating panels with a routed edge on the back of your stiles. :) That way, the panels can float and expand. Since you have a table saw, gluing several boards together and cutting the angle edge of all side of your panel should be a piece of cake.

Regardless of what you end up doing, I'm sure it's gonna look great! Every thing else you have done up to this point has been stellar.

chinadog

08-21-06, 10:50 AM

Beer is my other passion... I currently have six beers on tap (all home brewed) and my guests love the selection. I'm sure your bar area will be a hit.

Here is some further advice for your install...

Your beer line can really be any distance from the keg to the tap. The longer the flow line the higher you will have to pressure the keg. When you change keg pressures it takes a while for it to take affect because the co2 absorption is a slow process. However, longer beer lines will drop the temp of the beer and are more time consuming to clean and replace (yes, you should clean your tap lines every month or so) so under six foot is ideal. Also, keep all the beer lines at the same length, this allows you to share a common tank between multiple beers and still retain the same pressure.

If you have space in the closet consider a small upright chest freezer with an external temp controller. This is often the cheapest way to go and will allow you to have more than one keg on tap.

For english ales and Guinness make sure you get a special tank with the co2/nitrogen mix for that creamy head. You will also need a special tap.

Do you like to cook? Well making beer is just like cooking, consider making your house beer. How about Blazing Ridge Wheat/Amber/IPA/Bitter??

Good luck,

David.

Hey David, thanks for the reply. I'd have to measure exactly, but would except the line to be no more than 6 feet. I'm going to be limited on space in the closet. I used a 24" door and the interior is probably 30" or less.

I brewed beer once, a while back with my brother in law. I believe we did an ale, and bottled it in swing top bottles. It may be something to consider down the road, assuming I get the keg situation straight.

Bud

chinadog

08-21-06, 10:54 AM

I'm rooting for floating panels with a routed edge on the back of your stiles. :) That way, the panels can float and expand. Since you have a table saw, gluing several boards together and cutting the angle edge of all side of your panel should be a piece of cake.

Randy

Plus, I have a plate joiner, so that helps as well. I have a router, might be an excuse to get a router table. I assume I'd have to use a straight bit int he router to do the back of the stiles/rails, but since it's already screwed and glued, will the corners give me a problem?

Bud

david_pflanzer

08-21-06, 11:00 AM

Hey David, thanks for the reply. I'd have to measure exactly, but would except the line to be no more than 6 feet. I'm going to be limited on space in the closet. I used a 24" door and the interior is probably 30" or less.

I brewed beer once, a while back with my brother in law. I believe we did an ale, and bottled it in swing top bottles. It may be something to consider down the road, assuming I get the keg situation straight.

Bud

Brewing to kegs is much easier than bottling. Homebrewers mostly use the old 5gal pepsi or coke stainless kegs. They are easy to come by and cost about $35 ea. Also they take up much less space, you can fit two of them in the space you would normally need for an import keg.

You would be suprised at how good home brewed beer can taste. Best of all, you have a product that is uniqe to YOU. Unless of course you get Taco Mac to put your Blazing Ridge Bitter on tap. :>

David.

accts4mjs

08-21-06, 11:18 AM

Plus, I have a plate joiner, so that helps as well. I have a router, might be an excuse to get a router table. I assume I'd have to use a straight bit int he router to do the back of the stiles/rails, but since it's already screwed and glued, will the corners give me a problem?

Bud

Actually I'd just use a rabbiting bit and you could run the rails/stiles prebuilt around the bit and be good to go. You could then either chop the corners of your panels to fit the rounded edge on the back of the rails/stiles or just use a chisel to quickly chop the corners square.

As for a router table I've been through a few and quite honestly the easiest is to cut a piece of 3/4" plywood, drill the hole big enough for your bits, attach your router base to the back and use a jointed piece of 2x4 or something like that as the fence. You clamp it on one edge and gently push it into the running bit from the other and you have a nice zero clearance face :) Or you can just cut a nice semi-circle into the fence with your jigsaw or bandsaw or coping saw or whatever. Piece of cake.

Mike

HeyNow^

08-21-06, 11:22 AM

Bud,

I was thinking of a rabbit on the back all the way around the "frame" and then just set the panel in the opening from the back before you attach the stiles/frame. I think you are thinking a groove in the stiles/frame but you have already screwed them together. At the corners, just use a chisel. Or buy one of those corner thingies that Norm uses to square up the corners. :)

HeyNow^

08-21-06, 11:24 AM

Actually I'd just use a rabbiting bit and you could run the rails/stiles prebuilt around the bit and be good to go. You could then either chop the corners of your panels to fit the rounded edge on the back of the rails/stiles or just use a chisel to quickly chop the corners square.

As for a router table I've been through a few and quite honestly the easiest is to cut a piece of 3/4" plywood, drill the hole big enough for your bits, attach your router base to the back and use a jointed piece of 2x4 or something like that as the fence. You clamp it on one edge and gently push it into the running bit from the other and you have a nice zero clearance face :) Or you can just cut a nice semi-circle into the fence with your jigsaw or bandsaw or coping saw or whatever. Piece of cake.

Mike

Mike beat me to it. :)

accts4mjs

08-21-06, 11:31 AM

Mike beat me to it. :)

LOL! 4 minutes apart. Nice!

Mike

HeyNow^

08-21-06, 11:35 AM

chinadog

08-21-06, 12:30 PM

Guys, thanks. Got it.

Just need to figure out how to got about keeping the panels in place as you lift the frame to the wall. Sounds like another task for blue tape. Also, by using panels without trim to hold them in place, forces me to make a decision on the panels quickly, since I have to have the frame and corbels in place prior to the granite being installed. At least I prefer it that way. I'd hate to have something happen to it after spending all that cash. Maybe I should put the frame up, get the granite installed and then add the corbels?

Bud

chinadog

08-21-06, 12:34 PM

I'll tell you one thing, I love Bud's projects. I love watching/reading his mind working on where he's going next. I don't get tired, frustrated and the best thing of all, it doesn't cost me anything. :) Thanks Bud!

BudTV.

I've been bitten by too many spontanous and ill informed decisions... I just like to think things through, all possibilities, dependencies, etc. That's just me!

Bud

accts4mjs

08-21-06, 12:37 PM

Since you've already got the frames hung with tape just take a pencil and run it around the inside line. Route the back of your frames for the panels. Make sure they fit with just a bit of room for expansion -- the ply won't expand much but it will a bit (not as much as plain wood). Then you could just take the ply and hang it up with a couple of brads through the drywall until you hung the panels. They won't secure it long term but once the frame is up that's what secures it. Put the brads in top and bottom on the center (to allow the panel to expand and contract).

Also, don't know if you've thought about this but you want the grain running vertically up and down. I accidentally did one horizontally when I first started woodworking and it was wrong, all wrong. As soon as the piece was done I knew I'd screwed up. It's not horrible but it's wrong -- it makes the piece look bad. Not the look you'd want.

Mike

chinadog

08-21-06, 08:58 PM

Mike, thanks for the tip.

Bud

chinadog

08-23-06, 07:53 AM

Quick updates on the corbels. Even thought they say they're in stock, they weren't. Got a phone call on Monday stating they were to come in on the 30th. So, I switched to the same corbel, but 1.5 inches wide versus 3.75 inches wide. 3.75 would have been too think IO anyway. Also the 1.5 inch ones are only like 18.00 in alder versus 44.00+ for the 3.5 inch ones, so I just saved a bunch of cash. AND their in stock. Hopefully I'll have them by the end of the week.

New ones: http://www.premierwood.com/catalog/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=3452

Old ones: http://www.premierwood.com/catalog/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=835

Bud

HeyNow^

08-23-06, 09:35 AM

How many are you going to put up (maybe I missed that part)? One on each rail/stile? They are going to look sweet!

jikkjack

08-23-06, 09:43 AM

Bud - check your PM. Your ticket window is ready.

swithey

08-23-06, 11:31 AM

Bud,

Love the trim on the bar. I'm liking the idea of doing stained wood inside the panels vs. painting the drywall!!

chinadog

08-23-06, 12:03 PM

How many are you going to put up (maybe I missed that part)? One on each rail/stile? They are going to look sweet!

Correct, one per stile, so I ordred 9. At 40.00+ a pop, that added up quick. Was happy to hear I had a nice refund coming.

Bud

chinadog

08-23-06, 12:06 PM

Bud - check your PM. Your ticket window is ready. Just got it.. thanks. Make sure you call, the boy has baseball practice on Sat. Not sure exactly when I'll be there. No big rush either.

Bud

chinadog

08-23-06, 12:07 PM

Bud,

Love the trim on the bar. I'm liking the idea of doing stained wood inside the panels vs. painting the drywall!!

Thanks Steve. I agree, that's the plan. It'll give it a richer look obviously.

Bud

chinadog

08-23-06, 12:18 PM

HeyNow^

08-23-06, 12:44 PM

coastalb55

08-23-06, 02:35 PM

I went to WFS (Wood Finishers Supply (http://www.woodfinisherssupply.com/nof-index.shtml)) today on the way to work and drop off a sample of the filler bar for the cabinets and a piece of Alder for testing. They'll match up the stain and it should be ready by tomorrow, although I won't get it until Friday morning. This place is not open on Saturdays, so I'm glad I stopped today, otherwise I would have been screwed for the weekend. FYI...minimum amount for matching stain is a gallon.

I'm still thinking about buying a router table. I'd like to build one, but just won't have the time for it. The main reason for it is for the panels. Will I be able to use a shaper bit (like this: http://www.rockler.com/CategoryView.cfm?Cat_ID=296&cookietest=1) on a router table? I'm looking to make an edge for the panels that is small enough to be allow me to hold the panel in place once I rabbet the stiles and is decorative enough to give the panels some character. Does Home Depot carry bits like these?

Bud
Yeah, the link you have is only for shapers. But you can find a lot of the same profiles in router bits. I think what you want is the raised panel (http://www.rockler.com/CategoryView.cfm?Cat_ID=290) bits. I don't own any Rockler bit but I've heard that they are OK but there are better bits elsewhere for good prices.

Here's links to places I browse for router bits and accessories:

Holbren (http://www.holbren.com/home.php)

MCLS Woodworking (http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/)

Blades n' Bits (http://www.bladesnbits.com/index.ihtml)

I have a 35 piece Holbren set and while it is inexpensive, the quality of the bits are not by any means cheap.

As far as making a router table, it is pretty straight forward. I have made mine out of a old cubicle desktop. I have an aftermarket router lift but you don't need this. If you have a plunge router, you could craft a mount for it and use a couple pieces of MDF laminated together for the table top. A fence could be as simple as a nice straight 2x4 clamped to the table top.

This site has a bunch of info and a lot of folks have made their tables, jigs etc.: Router Forum (http://www.routerforums.com/)

If it is a raised panel design you ar going for, you have to have a table. There's no way you'd be able to control a router with a bit that large.

Andy

chinadog

08-23-06, 04:05 PM

I want to hit the ground running here, so any work required to build a table is just going to slow me down. So what about something like this? Most of the tables I see are the router is mounted from the bottom and this is (I guess) a horizontal table.... so does it have limitations, or is it just an alternative/preference thing?

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/horiztabl.html

Scroll down and look at the table/bit special number 1. Comments?

Sorry for the basic questions.

Bud

Cathan

08-23-06, 04:41 PM

Hmmm. Interesting design. Aside from being different, I'm not sure there is a lot to be gained by not going with the more widely accepted table top models.

All that aside, any time I've used my router I've used it with the board lying flat so that the wide part of the board is what the router is resting on and the bit is cutting the narrow edge of the wood. In essense this table does the opposite and as a result you may need different shaped bits to get the same effect. For example think about creating a bullnose edge. With a traditional set-up one bit will cut both the top and the bottom the the edge as the same time. With this horizontal table you need a different bit and would have to make two passes to achieve the same result.

If you needed to router wood so that normally you would be passing the narrow part of the wood against the base of the router, then I could see the horizontal table being worth it.

coastalb55

08-23-06, 06:56 PM

The horizontal tables have the advantage that you don't need the high power (3+ hp) router to swing the traditional 3-1/2 inch raised panel bit. I don't think they are as versitile as a vertical table top. It seems that the horizontal top would excel at doing the edges you want, but after that you might be wishing for the vertical table to do all the rest.

If I were in your shoes I'd get this set-up instead:

Router Table (http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/tabletop.html)

Get a featherboard for the fence to keep your stock pressed down against the table and use a miter gauge to push stock through the cutter. When using the large diameter bits it is best to take material off in a couple passes to minimize tearout. Router speed should be set low to reduce risk of burning.

What router will you be using?

Andy

chinadog

08-23-06, 07:34 PM

OK, so I'll look at regular vertical tables.

Andy, I have a Ryobi Variable Plunge Router, model RE175. I think it's a 1 3/4 HP. Works well, but will it make the grade?

Bud

chinadog

08-23-06, 08:42 PM

Oh snap. I just though that I need some new clamps now to build these panels. It's adding up quick! Plus I'll need to get some more alder, at least a few more boards. Many of the boards I got I square off and ended up with a bunch of long scraps, not long enough to make the panels though. I guess I'll figure out something else to make with them, like accent shelves or something. I suppose I can glue together the scraps for those!

Bud

accts4mjs

08-24-06, 01:55 AM

Bud,

Routing raised panels is certainly not out of reach just be sure you know what you're getting yourself into :)

1) Safety first. Those big bits will hog wood off like there's no tomorrow. Running them slow is a necessity for safety and then for cut quality. Raising the bit a little at a time and taking a bit off at a time will keep it safer (and go easier on your router, that Ryobi will take a beating from raised panels but less if you go a bit at a time).

2) Do each panel on each height setting so they match when you're done. Run the panels cross grain first, then along the grain to take out any tearout against the grain.

3) You'll need to join up your smaller boards to make a "board" wide enough for your panels. To do that you'll need a joiner and a planer. Or access to a wide belt sander (cabinet shops will do this for a fee usually -- better yet if you know someone for beer or food ;) ). Oh, and don't forget all the clamps -- you'll want lots of clamps :D

4) Don't glue your panels down (now that they won't be plywood) because they'll expand and need to float within the frame (or they'll crack after a year, happened to a friend of mine on his first try).

5) If you don't have the tools to do this you might see if there's a local Woodcraft (or similar DIY woodworking store) in your area. The employees will have shops themselves and most likely would do some or all of the work for a decent price (expect higher prices from cabinet shops because it slows them down to do something that isn't in their high output scheme of things).

6) Router tables can be expensive. Like $300 - $1000. I would give serious consideration to the idea of building your own out of two pieces of plywood or MDF with a simple straight (i.e. jointed) 2x4 fence clamped on top. Seriously, they're that simple and you'll be surprised at how well they work.

I'm not trying to get your hopes down, just let you know the slippery slope you're about to descend (though it's a fun one and building raised panels is a great excuse to go buy a bunch of stuff for your new wood shop :rolleyes: ).

Mike

chinadog

08-24-06, 06:48 AM

Mike,

Hmmmm..... and these will be the only panels I'll likely ever build. Maybe I should reconsider the stained plywood and trim option. Since the granite is coming on Wed, that leaves me little to no time to get the tools, glue up the panels, cut the panels and shape them. Crap. Any suggestions on plywood panels? Still rabbet the backs and insert the panels, then maybe figure out some molding touches? Gluing them to the drywall is OK?

Bud

HeyNow^

08-24-06, 07:48 AM

Bud,

Why not just reinforce the granite top with 2X4's from the floor until you can get the panels done? Don't hurry yourself and "settle" for something that is not quite what you want.

tshepherd

08-24-06, 07:52 AM

Definitely don't rush Bud. You've spent all this time getting it just right, why not do something temporary as Randy said? Better that than possibly regretting whatever decision you make between now and Wednesday.

Of course it's easy to suggest you wait and take your time when it's not my project. :)

Tom

chinadog

08-24-06, 08:02 AM

Randy, yeah. I've thought of that as well.

My initial intent was to go with a plywood/trim anyway. I like the raised panel idea, but just not sure how long (and how much) doing it will take. Granted, I can use the router table, assuming that router is sufficient for it. Otherwise I'm looking at a few hundred for a table, a few hundred for a router, panel bits, the additional aldrer (but I'd have to still by ply anyway), more clamps, etc. I really, really want to get it done and if I went with the ply solution I can get it done before the granite.... but you're right I might be settling. Since I have not done panels before, I'd have to allow some additional time/money for rework as well.

I can build some temporary brackets out some scrap 2x4s to support the granite as well (versus just proping it up) and just screw it into the wall framing (not the alder) . That may be a better option. Not sure if the corbels will arrive before the end of the week either, then it'll be a mad rush to get those finished.

Bud

Ben Harper

08-24-06, 08:45 AM

accts4mjs

08-24-06, 10:56 AM

Bud,

If you want some raised panels let me know and we can head up to my brothers shop. He has multiple industrial shapers we can use (in fact he lost part of his finger to one a few weeks ago). It took me less than 5 minutes to make a raised panel, including sanding.

Maybe Sunday?

Ben

See? I knew you could find someone that would have what you need and be able to help :D (Very nice of you Ben to offer.) Even cooler that it came from the forum!

Bud, if the classic Irish pub look is what you're after then raised panels are definitely the way to go. You might even look into a coping pattern for the rails and stiles if you can do this in Ben's brother's shop (I'm sure they're setup for that kind of thing).

Mike

coastalb55

08-24-06, 11:24 AM

[OK, so I'll look at regular vertical tables.

Andy, I have a Ryobi Variable Plunge Router, model RE175. I think it's a 1 3/4 HP. Works well, but will it make the grade?

Bud

Hmmm...1 3/4? That might be a little underpowered. You'll either need to make several passes per side taking just a little material off in each pass or go with a jig that stands the panel up vertically, a vertical panel bit, and a tall fence.

Or you can take Ben up on his offer to use his brother's shop. Frankly, buying tools is fun but if I had access to pro grade equipment, I'd be all over that. Plus it'll save you from laying out a bunch of cash on items you may not really need later.

Andy

chinadog

08-24-06, 12:43 PM

Bud,

If you want some raised panels let me know and we can head up to my brothers shop. He has multiple industrial shapers we can use (in fact he lost part of his finger to one a few weeks ago). It took me less than 5 minutes to make a raised panel, including sanding.

Maybe Sunday?

Ben

That would be great...

Sunday works for me. I can buy the additional lumber on Saturday, the cut them to size and glue them up. That would be great (I was hoping you would pipe in :D ).
I probably won't be able to go until after 11:00. That OK? I can swing by and pick you up, just let me know when.

Bud

chinadog

08-24-06, 01:01 PM

OK, so some new questions now based on creating the panels with Ben. For simplicity sake, lets say the openings are exactly 18"x32". The lumber is 3/4" thick.

1. I need a rabbet bit... I don't think I have one now. What size?
2. Once I have the rabbet done, do I figure the panel size based on the size of the rabbet cut? Should it be exactly the same size or have a slight gap? I mean, I know what the opening is (18x32), if I remove a 1/2" around the perimeter of the panel opening, it then becomes 19x33 (behind the frame, still 18x32 front the front). Do I make the panel 19x33 or 18 3/4" by 32 3/4"/ If the latter, what about shifting within the frame?

bud

chinadog

08-24-06, 01:03 PM

Bud, if the classic Irish pub look is what you're after then raised panels are definitely the way to go. You might even look into a coping pattern for the rails and stiles if you can do this in Ben's brother's shop (I'm sure they're setup for that kind of thing).

Mike

I guess I can take the frames and throw them in the truck with me and see what happens...

Bud

chinadog

08-24-06, 01:07 PM

[

Hmmm...1 3/4? That might be a little underpowered. You'll either need to make several passes per side taking just a little material off in each pass or go with a jig that stands the panel up vertically, a vertical panel bit, and a tall fence.

Or you can take Ben up on his offer to use his brother's shop. Frankly, buying tools is fun but if I had access to pro grade equipment, I'd be all over that. Plus it'll save you from laying out a bunch of cash on items you may not really need later.

Andy

Andy, well, I could probably still use a router table, but maybe now I can just make one. Having access to Ben's brothers tool will save me the cost of buying a new router right away as well.

Bud

Ben Harper

08-24-06, 01:36 PM

accts4mjs

08-24-06, 02:36 PM

Bud,

Just grab the raw wood and your dimensions. He has all the planers, jointers, etc. we will need.

11:00 works for me. I'll call my bro today to double check we can have the place but don't expect it to be a problem.

Ben

Yep, this works best :)

I would go ahead and glue up the panels beforehand that way they're dry and you can cut them to size when you get there. Make them bigger than you need but you'll probably make a 1/4" groove with the coping setup and leave yourself at least an 1/8" for expansion (along the width, wood doesn't really expand along the length). You might put a touch of glue at the top and bottom of the panel just in the center (top and bottom) so it secures it to the frame for "anti-rattle" purposes (that will let the panel still expand through the width to the left and right). Though I'd be surprised if they actually rattle but better safe than sorry.

Mike

PS. When joining wood for the panels if you don't have a jointer then wait until you do or the edges won't join up properly (you'll have gaps). You don't want to force a board together with the clamps they should just be snug by themselves. Also, be sure to orient the boards with the growth rings going opposite direction every other board (if you lay them out and look at the ends you'll see them either all curve up or all curve down -- go one down, one up, one down -- keeps them from warping).

coastalb55

08-24-06, 03:50 PM

Ben Harper

08-24-06, 03:59 PM

He has multiple shapers set up for essentially "one-pass" operation in building the raised panel, rails, stiles. Also, on my panels he placed these little silicone expansion beads at the corners inside the rail to keep from rattling.

It truly is a very simple operation when you have the right tools, especially when set up in an assembly line.

Ben

accts4mjs

08-24-06, 05:45 PM

HeyNow^

08-24-06, 07:42 PM

Ben is the man!

chinadog

08-24-06, 08:47 PM

Dave (lektern)...

Did you make it back yet?

Bud

lektern

08-25-06, 12:28 AM

Bud,
I arrived safely at home on Tueday night!! Thanks for asking.
Wednesday morning I cleared half my wood shop to prep the floor for epoxy coating. I'm painting it tomorrow morning. Then I'll shift everything over and do the other half. Once I have the shop reorganized, I can start on the rest of the basement, the garage, and the HT. I've got two months to get as much done as I can before going back to work, we'll see how that goes.
Obviously the HT is the priority, but I have to balance it with the Honey-Do list and spending time with wife and 21 month old daughter.

Keep us up to date on how the raised panels go. That's definitely the right look if you're going for a pub feel.

PS: I'll be starting the build thread shortly. Anyone interested in the garage and shop pics?

chinadog

08-25-06, 07:13 AM

Dave,

Great!! Welcome back!

Bud

Ben Harper

08-25-06, 08:55 AM

Hey Bud,

We're on for Sunday at 11:00. Call me if there is a change.

Ben

chinadog

08-25-06, 12:50 PM

Hey Bud,

We're on for Sunday at 11:00. Call me if there is a change.

Ben

See you then.

Bud

chinadog

08-25-06, 09:28 PM

So I have a few updates, but no pictures at this point.

First, I had ordered a custom retro concession sign off ebay. That arrived. It's not the quality I expected, but it's OK. I need to hang that, its just not on my list of things to do.

Second, my wife picked up gold trim for the velvet curtain and my wood letters arrived finally for the ticket window. I think Jason has the plexiglass for the front of it in his possession.

Third, my corbels arrived and I'm very pleased with them. They're the exact same size as the ones I have at the breakfast bar in the kitchen, except more decorative and made from solid alder. I think they'll work out perfect.

Fourth, I picked up the stain from the wood working place to match the cabinet stain. Looks great! I think it's going to work out well.

In the morning I'll go get the rest of the alder to build the panels, cut them down and start gluing them up in preparation for Sunday. I'll make sure I bring the camera up to Ben's brother's place.

Bud

lektern

08-25-06, 11:39 PM

Bud,
Try not to spill any of the stain. :D

hltr

08-26-06, 03:44 PM

That would be great...

Sunday works for me. I can buy the additional lumber on Saturday, the cut them to size and glue them up. That would be great (I as hoping you would pipe in :D ).
I probably won't be able to go until after 11:00. That OK? I can swing by and pick you up, just let me know when.

Bud

Bud,

I'm glad you are going to do it this way, because once you see those shapers in action you will know why trying to do this with your Ryobi would have been a real stretch.

Before I read this post I was going to suggest you just have your cabinet guy make the panels for you.

Now, the other thing I'm thinking about is that raised panels (which I did not realize you were considering) are meant to be placed in a groove, not a rabbet. So ideally you should unscrew your pocket joints and rip grooves into those rails and stiles. If you didn't use glue when you did the pocket joints, it should be easy enough, though I've never tried it and you may either need longer screws to get beyond the groove when you reassemble or find a way to avoid grooving near the screw holes (your could route the grooves for example and skip the areas where the rails intersect the stiles).

The reason for the groove is that the "raised" portion of the panel should end up flush with the face of the rails and styles. The way you are proceeding you may find that they look too recessed for traditional raised panels. If you like the look however, then it's all good.

Good luck.

[EDIT: Of course this all depends on the thickness of the panels and whether the shaper bit is cutting just the front, or both front and back of the panel in order to make the tongue]

Ben Harper

08-26-06, 06:24 PM

Bud,

Brian said to not rip the rails (frame?) if you can avoid it as it's easier to push a large piece of wood through the shaper then rip it. If you have already done this, no worries as we can still manage.

See you at 11:00.

Ben

chinadog

08-26-06, 09:25 PM

Well, the frame (rails and stiles) are glued and screwed. Although typically you do the grove on the rails/stiles to accept the panel, since they're not doors, the rabbet should be fine, I would think.

I built 6 panels with rough dimensions, like 34"x21+inches based on the width of the wood, so we'll have to cut those down to size prior to putting them in the router. The first two panels aren't as nice as the last four. I got better as I went. The opening of the from is 18-1/4 to 18-3/8 inches wide and about 32" high. I left myself room for the rabbet. I plan on bring all the frames and the panels.

Bud

hltr

08-26-06, 10:41 PM

Well, the frame (rails and stiles) are glued and screwed. Although typically you do the grove on the rails/stiles to accept the panel, since they're not doors, the rabbet should be fine, I would think.

Bud

Bud,

Yeah it will work, you just want to be sure that rabbet sits nice and flush against those panels when up on the bar, so get the depth of your plunge just right.

Since you are making real wood panels, make sure you leave them loose (side to side) to allow for expansion and contraction of the panel itself. I'm not sure how much with alder.. anyone know?

You'll also want to stain them before you set them in the frame so if they contract later you won't reveal a stain line. If you get them in place and they rattle you could tack them to the bar, but if you do I would do it in the center board of each panel so the panel can still expand and contract.

Good luck dude! Very jealous here as I have no bar. :-)

hltr

08-26-06, 10:48 PM

OK, just found an entire page I had missed where all of the groove stuff and rattling was discussed.... shutting up now, lol.

chinadog

08-27-06, 08:17 PM

So here are some pictures from some progress this weekend. A special thanks to Ben Harper and his brother Brian for use of his shop, tools, and advice. Here is how things look at this point. Although I brought the camera to the shop, I didn't take any pictures. Sorry, was preoccupied.

Some of the panels are just a hair too big, I'll either plane or sand down the edges in order to get them to fit. I realize they need a little room to expand as well. At the moment, they're just laying in the rabbet in the back of the frame. Sorry about the bad shots.
http://images18.fotki.com/v342/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1640-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v348/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1639-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v346/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1638-vi.jpg

Here are the corbels:
http://images20.fotki.com/v287/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1641-vi.jpg

Here is the small frame that I'll have to redo. The rabbit was fine, this is the from the front of the frame, I just screwed up by going over a spot twice, not thinking anything about it and it just tore it up. I'll need to redo this frame this week. The panel is already done, so it shouldn't take long. I decided not to route the other fronts (luckily) and may just add some decorative trim (or not). It will have bar stools in front of it 99% of the time.
http://images18.fotki.com/v346/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1642-vi.jpg

Bud

HeyNow^

08-27-06, 08:30 PM

Bud,

Absolutely freaking awesome. I have been thinking about you and Ben working on this all day. I have to tell you, this is going to look great and I am happy that you decided on the panels. One of the best I've seen!

Congratulations!

chinadog

08-27-06, 08:44 PM

Thanks Randy. It wouldn't have turned out as nice if I had done it myself. Ben's brother knows his stuff and has the tools. Ben was a big help as well. I bought the lumber for the panels yesterday and cut them down to a raw size, then used biscuits and glue to create the raw panels. Three boards per panel. Brian said you don't need the biscuits if you glue and clamp them correctly. Anyway, I brought everything up to the shop. We left 3/4 of an inch extra on the width and length and cut them on the saw. Ben ran them through the planer until they were 5/8" thick. Ben and I ran them through the shaper (holy crap, no way my router could do that) and after we were done, Brian's helper then fixed them by running them through again. I filled in the small cracks between boards with filler and Ben sanded down the panels. It took about 2 hours to get them from the raw stage to the stain ready stage. When I got home, I routed the rabbets, then messed up the one panel. All in a days work.

I'm thinking about pushing the granite install out a week just to get it all finished now.

Bud

VorlonFog

08-28-06, 09:04 AM

Those look fantastic on your bar, Bud. Sorry to hear about the one panel. At least it wasn't a toe or finger, right? ;)

BritInVA

08-28-06, 09:24 AM

Bud - those bar panels are looking great.

I love the way you show us your scew ups too .....just shows your human like the rest of us :D

Cheers,
Mark

hltr

08-28-06, 10:50 AM

Fantastic. Congrats.

chinadog

08-28-06, 11:05 AM

Thanks guys. I'm very happy with them, now to get the next frame built (I have the alder on hand, glad I bought a few extra boards), get it all stained, get the corbels attached and attached to the walls.

BTW, there are two ways I'm thinking about mounting the corbels and frames. First, I can attached the frames with some construction adhesive to the drywall and a few strategic brads. I could even put a few screws in it where the corbels would cover them. The bottom brads can be hidden with quarter round. I was thinking about just gluing the corbels, but not sure that will be the best support.

Second, I could attach the corbels to the frames first, putting screws in through the back. That would give me the most support. I would then put the frames on the wall with construction adhesive and brads I was thinking of putting some trip between the corbels to hide any slight gap or brads/screws.

Any comments on this approach?

Bud

BritInVA

08-28-06, 11:24 AM

Bud - to give proper support to that bar I would suggest you screw them through the frame into a stud. Just use a wood plug to cover the screw.

You really don't want to risk someone leaning on that bar and pulling the frame off the wall or worse cracking the granite.

hltr

08-28-06, 11:48 AM

Yes, with the corbels being structural you'll want a few nice long screws from the back of the panel I would think. I'd probably use Gorilla Glue as well. And pre-drill before you drive those screws into the corbels imo and counter sink the back side of the frame to bury the screw heads.

And since we're talking granite here I'd feel alot better with screws and plugs for attaching the frame to the bar as Brit said, as opposed to adhesive or brads.

coastalb55

08-28-06, 12:30 PM

Bud,
Those panel look awesome. Excellent choice of profile.

I (and I'm sure a number of other people here) am living vicariuosly through you watching tthe progress of your basement. It has me dreaming of the day that I either move somewhere that I can have a basement or have room for a theater/recreation area. Right now my only option is building up and that's not happening anytime soon.

Andy

chinadog

08-28-06, 12:45 PM

Mark, ideally, yes, long screws and plugs would work out best. I think though if I go with the route hltr is talking about, I can avoid the plugs. Plus, in many cases, the corbels won't line up exactly with the studs. The top portion of the corbel will meet with a horizontal 2x6 that the wall was built from, but the that have to be one very long screw to go through 5 inches of corbel, 1/2 drywall and then into the wood. I'd have to get like 7" screws.

I think that using screws from the back is the most appealing (and would definitely use gorilla glue). I can then use construction adhesive and screws at the very top and bottom of the frames so I can hide them with 1/4 round. I was thinking of brads just to hold it in place until the construction adhesive dried, not for real structural support. I just have to make sure I can get alder 1/4 round (or something that's close).

Bud

chinadog

08-28-06, 01:06 PM

MaximAvs

08-28-06, 02:08 PM

VorlonFog

08-28-06, 02:18 PM

chinadog

08-28-06, 04:48 PM

Bud,

Could you use that Kreg jig to create 2 slots in the top of the corbel that you could run screws through to the back and into the top plate of the bar frame?!! And then run a couple of screws through the bottom portion making it pretty sturdy?!
I agree with some of the other guys, you really should have those anchored into a stud of the bar frame for them to be structural, otherwise they are purely decorative.

Sean,

Aha! I may be able to do that with some 3-3.5 inch screws. Sort of like toenailing it. That might just give me enough length and the right angle to hit the 2x6. The only support on the bottom will be through the frame itself, since the frame won't line up with an studs (at least not the interim ones).

Thanks for the idea!

Bud

chinadog

08-28-06, 04:53 PM

Bud: You mentioned quarter-round, but is there also going to be a baseboard running along the bottom? Might make it easier to add a brass (or other material) foot rail later.

Also, if it's not too late, could you nail in a 2x4 horizontally between the studs behind the sheet rock to provide structural support for the corbels?

Keith,

No, I was thinking of just using the 1/4 round to address where the frame meets the floor. No baseboard. I think some people also build a step/foot rest at the bottom, but I don't plan on that either. A brass rail (or some other finish) may be a possibility later at some point.

On the extra support. I suppose I could tear out some drywall and redo it. You would want a flat surface for the frames/panels to rest on it, so you need something there. Worth a thought. Thanks.

Bud

VorlonFog

08-28-06, 10:15 PM

On the extra support. I suppose I could tear out some drywall and redo it. You would want a flat surface for the frames/panels to rest on it, so you need something there. Worth a thought. Thanks.I only mentioned it because I didn't know whether you already had cabinets installed behind the sheet rock. If you've previously mentioned it or shared photos, I must have missed it. :rolleyes:

SmX

08-28-06, 11:20 PM

Bud your thread is like a "This Old House" episode. You covered every upgrade in your house from showers to toilets to crown molding to home theater. When are you going to start on the car makeover? :D LOL

Looking good!

Ruben

chinadog

08-29-06, 06:40 AM

Ruben,

LOL, Wish I had Norm here doing all the work! Thanks.

Bud

chinadog

08-29-06, 06:41 AM

Keith,

Cabinets are installed on the other side of the wall, but I would still be able to possibly pull drywall from the panel side if I had to. I may give Sean's idea (and a combination of the others) a shot and see what happens.

Bud

rsberg34

08-29-06, 06:50 AM

Bud those cabinet fronts look great.....how many versions did you try before you decided on that one?

Whats next for the HT?

Robert

chinadog

08-29-06, 06:57 AM

Robert,

One iteration. I think the bit was already in the shaper, there was a board that was already run through there, it looked good to me.

The only things I have left are the front of the projector box still, finishing out the ticket window, build the lightboxes, get the granite installed in the concession area and do some shoe molding. Oh and paint the register cover and alarm speaker in the HT room. That's about it.

Next year I'll look at doing a star ceiling and adding a htpc.

Bud

MaximAvs

08-29-06, 09:26 AM

Bud...

Ooo... I look forward to seeing your HTPC setup next year!! I've been tossing around the idea, and have decided to wait till Vista comes out before going ahead. If you document that install like you have with this theater build, it will read like a how-to!! :)

chinadog

08-29-06, 12:52 PM

Granite is coming tomorrow, if I have to reschedule, it'll be another month before I can get back on their schedule. They said with my overhang and 2x6 construction should be fine and I can temporarily use 2x4 supports.

Bud

MaximAvs

08-29-06, 02:45 PM

So with the countertops going in tomorrow, and you working from an office now, does this mean you'll be taking a day off?! :eek:

chinadog

08-29-06, 03:57 PM

They're coming at 8:30, so I'll leave after that.

Bud

rsberg34

08-30-06, 07:46 AM

Bud,

Which can lights are you going with? I am taking a survey if sorts since I know nothing about this kind of thing and am rapidly approaching needing to make this decision for my theater build. I have all the framing done and will be installing the RSIC on the ceiling today so I can get to drywalling the ceiling. I wasnt going to go with can lights on the ceiling originally but have changed my mind so I am trying to figure out which design/model to go with so I can start builing the MDF box's for them prior to drywalling.

Thanks.....Robert

chinadog

08-30-06, 07:57 AM

Robert,

I used Halo for the 6" cans, purchased from Home Depot by the box of 6. They were model number H7ICTs. The 4" cans were also Halos, model H99ICT from Lighting Fixtures & Ceiling Fans (http://www.lighting-fixtures-ceiling-fans.com/store/PPF/parameters/674_59/more_info.asp). I bought the trims and baffles for all my cans through them as well.

BTW, people moan about Halo quality and rattles. I wrapped the arms of the cans with electrical tape as a precaution and have not heard a sound.

Bud

chinadog

08-30-06, 09:47 AM

The granite guys are here. They said it would take about 3 hours. The top piece is not attached yet. It's just resting on top. Both of these are single pieces, so I'll have only one seam on the bar and one seam on the base.

http://images18.fotki.com/v345/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1643-vi.jpg
http://images1.fotki.com/v6/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1644-vi.jpg

Bud

HeyNow^

08-30-06, 10:35 AM

Gawd that looks sick! :)

Ktulu_1

08-30-06, 10:47 AM

Gawd that looks sick! :)

Yeah, that bar top rocks. :)

chinadog

08-30-06, 11:06 AM

Thanks guys.

The color will change slightly when they seal it. He showed me a test area that was sealed, looks great. He did a great job on the one seam for the base cabinets, I know where it is, but I doubt most people will see it.

After they do the concession area he said he'd reseal the upstairs kitchen stuff as well.

Bud

HeyNow^

08-30-06, 11:10 AM

Bud,

Is there any care and feeding with the granite counter tops? I don't have any experience with granite. Do they stain easy etc?

chinadog

08-30-06, 11:30 AM

Hey Randy,

You need to seal them once or twice a year depending on the granite. Its a simple process of spraying on the solution and wiping it down. It's stain resistant when sealed.

Check this FAQ out: http://www.customstonesurfaces.com/benefits.html

Bud

mmoeller

08-30-06, 11:38 AM

Quartz countertops do not require the maintainence that granite and marble do. Might be an option. I believe they are a bit more expensive however.

Chiahead

08-30-06, 12:03 PM

Sorry Bud, gotta take a moment to wipe a tear here...

Thats really a beautiful set up. Congrats!!!

chinadog

08-30-06, 12:13 PM

Michael,

Thanks. I'll post more pictures shortly, they're just finishing up the bar portion and I don't want to get in the way. Sink is already installed as well. When they move over to my concession area, I'll take a few shots and post.

Bud

HeyNow^

08-30-06, 12:32 PM

Geez Bud, why don't you just set up a webcam for all of us to see the play-by-play!

chinadog

08-30-06, 12:35 PM

Not a bad idea! One guy seems to be a perfectionist, they're doing a great job. Didn't realize how long took to do this work.

Bud

Toxarch

08-30-06, 01:42 PM

Looks pretty good. Just out of curiosity, how do they attach the bar top? Do they just glue it down or do they use some kind of fasteners underneath?

chinadog

08-30-06, 03:30 PM

Looks pretty good. Just out of curiosity, how do they attach the bar top? Do they just glue it down or do they use some kind of fasteners underneath?

They use silicon!

Bud

chinadog

08-30-06, 03:39 PM

Took some pictures, uploaded them and then ran out the door. Just had a chance to post. Pretty excited how it came out. I just propped up the faucet, its not installed yet.

Here are the final granite shots.

http://images18.fotki.com/v346/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1647-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v346/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1653-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v346/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1654-vi.jpg

Concession area (they did not bring the backsplash, they'll have to come back):
http://images18.fotki.com/v342/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1650-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v348/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1652-vi.jpg

Bud

Thunder7

08-30-06, 04:38 PM

Man, your HT area just keeps getting better and better! Awesome!

whostolemynick

08-30-06, 04:54 PM

I can honestly say two things:

1. Your HT and basement all around are a masterpiece.
2. I want first dibs on that place if you move!

:D

mflanagan

08-30-06, 04:56 PM

WOW! I never get sick of seeing Granite! I wish I could have afforded it when I did mine....but theres always room for the upgrade later on. Lookig great, keep the updates coming!

swithey

08-30-06, 05:03 PM

Bud,

Those counters look GREAT! The installers did a wonderful job. Did they mount the sink for you or did you need to do it yourself?

BritInVA

08-30-06, 05:27 PM

Very nice - just needs a few nicely placed cans of British/Irish Ale and you'll be set :

Thunder7

08-30-06, 06:32 PM

I can honestly say two things:

1. Your HT and basement all around are a masterpiece.
2. I want first dibs on that place if you move!

:D

Hey, wait a minute. You're way up in Detroit....I am actually in the metro Atlanta area....That should count for first dibs first. ;)

chinadog

08-30-06, 06:48 PM

Thanks guys. Now to get the front done. Hopefully the backsplash for the concession area won't take long to get done.

I need to figure out what to do with the backsplash for the bar. I'm thinking maybe of using the panels for a tin ceiling for a backsplash, maybe a silver or grey. Dunno yet.

Bud

chinadog

08-30-06, 06:50 PM

Bud,

Those counters look GREAT! The installers did a wonderful job. Did they mount the sink for you or did you need to do it yourself?

They put in the sink. I actually picked it out, they had a bunch to pick from. Was just easier.

Bud

chinadog

08-30-06, 06:51 PM

I can honestly say two things:

1. Your HT and basement all around are a masterpiece.
2. I want first dibs on that place if you move!

:D

Thanks very much!

chinadog

08-30-06, 06:53 PM

Very nice - just needs a few nicely placed cans of British/Irish Ale and you'll be set :

Yes, I'm working on that already! :D

Bud

chinadog

08-30-06, 06:55 PM

WOW! I never get sick of seeing Granite! I wish I could have afforded it when I did mine....but theres always room for the upgrade later on. Lookig great, keep the updates coming!

I figured with all the work I did and all the money I saved, that it was time to spend a little on those things that put it over the "edge". Pretty happy with the final results! It helps to have a neighbor whose a builder too.

Bud

chinadog

08-30-06, 06:57 PM

Hey, wait a minute. You're way up in Detroit....I am actually in the metro Atlanta area....That should count for first dibs first. ;)

Well, that means you're expected to come to my HT meet ... whenever that is!

Bud

BoblK

08-31-06, 12:16 AM

Bud,

Why not use granite for the bar backsplash? Even with the outlets there they can cut the holes for them with their waterjet cutter they use. I did it on my bar and you won't regret it, believe me. That way the whole bar area is easy to wipe up after a party!

Bob

chinadog

08-31-06, 07:04 AM

mmoeller

08-31-06, 09:25 AM

Phenominal!! I love the cabinetry. The second set of pic look a bit darker. Which set is more true to life??

accts4mjs

08-31-06, 10:23 AM

BTW, people moan about Halo quality and rattles. I wrapped the arms of the cans with electrical tape as a precaution and have not heard a sound.

Good to know, thanks for the tip Bud.

Mike

accts4mjs

08-31-06, 10:27 AM

chinadog

08-31-06, 12:30 PM

Phenominal!! I love the cabinetry. The second set of pic look a bit darker. Which set is more true to life??

More like the second set. Those pictures were taken after they sealed the countertops.

Bud

chinadog

08-31-06, 12:33 PM

Just finished catching up. Wow! That's about all I can say, your bar turned out fantastic. Bet you're super happy with the results -- though I'm sure you're anxious to get the front on so it's finished too.

Mike, I think that the paneled front will make a HUGE impact now. I'm hoping that by the end of the weekend, that'll be done.

Bud

hltr

09-02-06, 08:12 AM

Hey Bob,

Thought about that, looking for something a little more unique, just not sure what it is yet. More bar-ish and less kitchen-ish, although using cabinets/granite is awfully kitchen-ish already.

Bud

A few ideas:

1. Stainless steel
2. Tiles (same as floor)
3. Mini panels to match the front or just full pieces of alder

chinadog

09-02-06, 10:06 PM

Floor is laminate, even the tile, but there may be alternatives. Not sure I'd go with wood, stainless might be an option.

Bud

mrpergo

09-02-06, 10:17 PM

Bud you might want to look at some stamped copper.
It would blend in well with your wood and stone.
Place looks great. Congrats on a job well done.

chinadog

09-02-06, 10:20 PM

So here is where things stand. Built the new frame today, but put it aside to let the glue dry. Tomorrow I'll stain it and route the rabbet. The other frames and the panels are all stained and sealed. I just need to apply a few coats of lacquer. I also stained and sealed the crobels, so lacquer for them as well. Her are a few more dry fit shots.

http://images18.fotki.com/v341/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1658-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v346/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1659-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v341/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1660-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v348/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1666-vi.jpg

Color comparison with one panel:
http://images18.fotki.com/v347/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1663-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v346/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1664-vi.jpg

Stained corbel:
http://images15.fotki.com/v343/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1668-vi.jpg

Overall I'm pretty happy with it. I used the stain recommended by WSF, although in the pictures it looks darker. I was afraid during the day at least that it was too light. I only used one coat. The test piece I used had two coats and it was way too dark.

Overall, I think it looks great. Almost there.

Bud

chinadog

09-02-06, 10:21 PM

Bud you might want to look at some stamped copper.
It would blend in well with your wood and stone.
Place looks great. Congrats on a job well done.

Interesting idea. Where would I find stamped copper? Thanks for the reply.

Bud

mrpergo

09-02-06, 10:37 PM

You should be able to find them at craft stores or some tile stores.
If you google copper tiles or stamped copper you'll find some gorgeous stuff.
A little pricey, but your looking for unique right ?

BritInVA

09-03-06, 10:13 AM

VorlonFog

09-03-06, 12:08 PM

Mark: It's waaaayyyy back here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8248654&&#post8248654) (Post 2517) :)

BritInVA

09-03-06, 12:20 PM

Keith - Thanks.

I recollect these pics now :o , as I'm about the start my panelling this week I was going back over buds thread - obviously didn't go back far enough :o

BritInVA

09-03-06, 02:41 PM

Bud - nor sure if you have ever come accoss The Pub Shoppe (http://www.thepubshoppe.com/).

got loads of cool bar accents.

chinadog

09-03-06, 06:19 PM

Mark,

Had not seen that site. Thanks for the link.

Bud

chinadog

09-03-06, 06:24 PM

Bud - Did you end up using the kreg jig on those panel frames? Didn't see your usual step-by-step pics. If yes, how did like using it and did you get a nice flush tight joint (looks like you did in your pics)?

Be picking up my lumber during the week - kreg jig in transit.

Cheers,
Mark

Mark, joints are pretty tight. As long as you cut all the boards the right height, works great. If you leave one a little short, the screws may not grab as well and if there is a gap, the glue won't take. Instead of cutting each board to a given height, I tried to make them all the exact measurement. I won't recommended that. It may throw things out of square. Worked for me, but had to put in some extra screws in one board. Also, depending on the wood, rough threads may work better than fine threaded screws (included with the jig). I ended up using them, but switched to some rough 3/4" drywall screws. Alder is a little soft. Overall, worked great.

Bud

chinadog

09-03-06, 06:27 PM

I routed, stained and sealed the last panel today. I also lacquered everything with a spray satin lacquer (two coats). I think dry fit everything again, shimmed it in place and went ahead and gorilla glued the corbels in place. Tomorrow, I'll pull the frames off again and drive some screws through he back into the corbels, then put everything back up and screw it to the framing. At some point I'll trim is out with some quarter round to hide the screws.

Bud

chinadog

09-03-06, 09:50 PM

Here are a few pictures from today with the corbels attached (glued only at this point). Tomorrow I'll take a ride to HD to get some screws to secure everything. The first picture gives you a pretty good idea of the color comparison with the cabinets. It seems the lacquer had some impact on the color.

http://images18.fotki.com/v346/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1676-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v345/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1679-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v346/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1675-vi.jpg

Bud

RensMond

09-04-06, 03:58 AM

Excellent work Bud.
Definitely something to be proud of.

swithey

09-04-06, 06:44 AM

Great Job on those panels Bud. They stained up so evenly. Did you have to condition the wood first or were you able to just apply the stain straight to the wood?

Looks like a pro job to me!

chinadog

09-04-06, 08:06 AM

Excellent work Bud.
Definitely something to be proud of.

Thanks and welcome to the group!

Bud

chinadog

09-04-06, 08:14 AM

Thanks Steve. No conditioner this go around and I only used one coat of stain. I guess its the nature of the alder, it takes stain very well.

Bud

HeyNow^

09-04-06, 09:28 AM

There is absolutely no way this could have turned out any better! Outstanding!!

chinadog

09-04-06, 10:13 AM

Mark, joints are pretty tight. As long as you cut all the boards the right height, works great. If you leave one a little short, the screws may not grab as well and if there is a gap, the glue won't take. Instead of cutting each board to a given height, I tried to make them all the exact measurement. I won't recommended that. It may throw things out of square. Worked for me, but had to put in some extra screws in one board. Also, depending on the wood, rough threads may work better than fine threaded screws (included with the jig). I ended up using them, but switched to some rough 3/4" drywall screws. Alder is a little soft. Overall, worked great.

Bud

Mark,

Also, Ben's brother Brian turned me on to a wood filler from Wood Finish Supply that I used to fill imperfections and seams where required. Good stuff. There is a different type for each type of wood to match. Brian had a maple filler, which we used. I picked up the Alder filler last week for the last frame. If you go this route, make sure you sand it off completely before staining. Works much better than the Elmers wood fill or the DAP stuff. I don't see it on their website though, so you'd have to find a local distributor.

http://www.woodfinisherssupply.com/distributors.shtml

Bud

chinadog

09-04-06, 10:15 AM

There is absolutely no way this could have turned out any better! Outstanding!!

Thanks Randy!

rlhjr34

09-04-06, 03:00 PM

chinadog

09-04-06, 04:19 PM

Love the bar! Very nicely done! I am however curious about the wall color around your bar area. I'm thinking of a color along those lines for my media room (maybe slightly darker). What brand of paint is that? What's the name of that color?

Thanks!

Thanks. It's called Restrained Gold from Sherwin-Williams. Color number SW6129.

Bud

chinadog

09-04-06, 09:10 PM

Today I went to HD and got 3" deck screws. I pulled down the frames and laid them on the floor, predrilled and drove two screws through the back of the frame into each corbel. The gorilla glue holds extremely well, although I had a little glue expansion come out the sides on a few corbels, nothing that I can't fix. I predrilled though the front of the frames for attaching it to the bar framing. I then positioned the frames and drove more 3" screws through the top of the frame and the bottom of the frame. It's pretty solid. The only thing I have to do is get some quarter round stained and install and the top and bottom of the frames to hide the screws.

http://images18.fotki.com/v345/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1680-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v346/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1681-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v341/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1682-vi.jpg

Bud

BritInVA

09-04-06, 09:24 PM

Bud - Looking real good - your work continues to impress!

From pics looks like you got a good color match, there apears to be a deaper sheen on the cupboards - looks like you gotta get the wax out :D

Cheers,
Mark

chinadog

09-04-06, 09:31 PM

Mark,

Thanks. I used a Satin lacquer, probably should have gone with something a little more. I may try the wax or may brush on another coat of lacquer at some point (not real soon, mind you, got some beers to enjoy). The color isn't perfect, but its close enough, the flash makes it more emphasized. Once you put the bar stools in, nobody will even notice. After sitting on the bar stool for some time, they REALLY won't notice! :D

Bud

BritInVA

09-04-06, 09:32 PM

Bud - and you sure need some quality time at that bar. Say Hi to the barmaid for me :D

Cheers,
Mark

chinadog

09-04-06, 11:14 PM

Yes, I agree. I bought one of those St. Pauli girl outfits for my wife... :D

Bud

VorlonFog

09-05-06, 09:38 AM

It's looking great, Bud! I really like the way your mini-fridge looks in there. :)

HeyNow^

09-05-06, 10:49 AM

Hey Bud,

Regarding your hardwood floors... How do you think they will hold up to bar stools? i.e. pushing, pulling and stationery pressure etc. As I recall from your thread, you used laminated snap type flooring. The top layer of laminate is pretty thin (1/16 - 1/8 ??).

My wife wants me to install HW flooring around the bar area and we were at Sam's and Costco this past weekend and they had some flooring that we liked. I have a concern about my stools leaving indentations in the wood. The carpet I have down now is already showing wear and it's a short tight knap.

Any recommendations?

tshepherd

09-05-06, 11:54 AM

I have bar stools on a brazilian cherry hardwood floor in my kitchen / family room area. No dents, but I also got several packs of the stick on felt pucks to put on the bottom of each leg. Cheap insurance and all that.

Tom

chinadog

09-05-06, 12:14 PM

Randy,

I have barstools upstairs in the kitchen on oak floors, no problems there. I used the same felt pucks that Tom mentions. I don't think it's a problem with the laminate either, it's pretty durable. I think you're thinking of engineered hardwood that has basically a veneer of wood on top of it. You can sand that type of floor down once and that's about it. I've pushed the couch around down there and it has wooden legs on it, not a problem at all.

Bud

swithey

09-05-06, 12:49 PM

http://images18.fotki.com/v341/photos/6/649633/3817012/100_1682-vi.jpg
Wow -- nice job Bud. I sent my wife a link to this post so she could see a pic of this bar. Simply outstanding!

BTW -- When is the dishwasher going in? I see it parked over there on the left.

chinadog

09-05-06, 01:00 PM

Wow -- nice job Bud. I sent my wife a link to this post so she could see a pic of this bar. Simply outstanding!

BTW -- When is the dishwasher going in? I see it parked over there on the left.

Hey Steve, thanks. The DW opening is to the right of the sink. The sink is in the angled section. I still need to drill out the holes for the supply and drain for the dishwasher through the cabinet fillers to get to the supplies/p-trap. No immediate rush, need to go buy the trap and the plumbing parts to finish that out. I'm also tempted to call the plumber and have him do it!

Bud

chinadog

09-05-06, 08:37 PM

It's looking great, Bud! I really like the way your mini-fridge looks in there. :)

Hey Keith, thanks. On the fridge, simple and effective. I would guess I could get at least 4 cases of beer in there, plus it being where it is makes for the quickest access!

Bud

chinadog

09-06-06, 08:33 AM

So here is an update on the ticket window. Finally got some gold metallic paint from HD last weekend and sprayed the letters. The letters are actually made from pine, wasn't sure if I was going to stain them or not. Happy with the gold paint. I just glued the letters on this AM and took a few shots. Jason will be by on Friday with the plexiglass for the front and I have all the stuff I need for the red velvet curtain, maybe my wife can find some time this weekend to put that together.

http://images18.fotki.com/v346/photos/6/649633/3813965/100_1683-vi.jpg
http://images15.fotki.com/v344/photos/6/649633/3813965/100_1684-vi.jpg

Bud

VorlonFog

09-06-06, 08:50 AM

That's going to look fabulous with the window and the drapes. :)

BuffBakerGA

09-06-06, 09:19 AM

You didn't have to make that for me Bud... :D

Basement looks great...

Jeff

BritInVA

09-06-06, 09:31 AM

I have all the stuff I need for the red velvet curtain, maybe my wife can find some time this weekend to put that together.
Bud

So Bud can't sew :D

Looking great! As always.\

Cheers,
Mark

chinadog

09-06-06, 10:07 AM

You didn't have to make that for me Bud... :D

Basement looks great...

Jeff

Jeff, this is the prototype. When I get that Paypal payment, I'll start production... :D

Bud

chinadog

09-06-06, 10:09 AM

So Bud can't sew :D

Mark, probably wouldn't admit it if I could, besides, I think my wife is excited about doing it actually. :)

Bud

chinadog

09-06-06, 10:11 AM

That's going to look fabulous with the window and the drapes. :)

Keith, thanks. Hopefully I'll be able to post completed pictures by the end of the weekend...

Bud

SmX

09-06-06, 06:09 PM

Hey Bud,

The ticket window looks great!

Did you ever get around to posting pictures of your completed theater?
I tried to go back and see but the last 15 pages of this thread is about a bar counter.

Ruben

chinadog

09-06-06, 07:59 PM

Ruben,

I'll have to take some "finished" shots and post them.... just for you, my friend. :D

Bud

BritInVA

09-10-06, 12:56 PM

chinadog

09-10-06, 02:00 PM

Bud - Is this the wood filler you were refering to?

http://www.woodfinisherssupply.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=M&Category_Code=Finish+Putty

Do you match to the wood (i.e. I'm using Red Oak) or the the final color?

Cheers,
Mark

This is it. You match the filler with the wood. This is prestain, presand stuff. The other stuff you found is for filling in nail holes to match the stain.

http://images19.fotki.com/v332/photos/6/649633/3402899/100_1686-vi.jpg

And I found it at this link: http://www.woodnshop.com/Famowood.htm although my can is about 4 times that, but I didn't use all that much.

Bud

chinadog

09-10-06, 02:08 PM

Jason came by Friday night with the plexiglass, came out great. Dimensions were perfect, exactly how I planned it. Here's a shot with just the plexiglass. I used some white glue to secure the louvered cover.

http://images19.fotki.com/v18/photos/6/649633/3813965/100_1688-vi.jpg

BTW, here is the plexi design and measurements:
http://images18.fotki.com/v339/photos/6/649633/3813965/plexi-vi.jpg

EDIT: Sometimes this picture doesn't show for some reason. This is a Fotki thing, I'll double check it tomorrow and repost if necessary.

Bud

BritInVA

09-10-06, 05:35 PM

Bud - Thanks for the link - ordered a couple of tins to be safe.

The Ticket window looks superb! Great job as usual.

Cheers,
Mark

VorlonFog

09-10-06, 08:27 PM

Bud, do I remember :confused: sometime back you were considering putting curtains behind your ticket window? (Or am I just as crazy as everyone else seems to believe I am? :D )

SmX

09-10-06, 09:38 PM

Bud, do I remember :confused: sometime back you were considering putting curtains behind your ticket window? (Or am I just as crazy as everyone else seems to believe I am? :D )

I think curtains behind the glass will look real good.

Ruben

BritInVA

09-10-06, 09:45 PM

Buds wife is making the curtains - I'm assuming as she is cooking/cleaning/looking after kids etc. while Bud is down in the basement its not top of her priorities. :D

I'm sure will look great when its finished.

chinadog

09-10-06, 11:06 PM

Mark is correct. She's got the gold frilly trim sewn on the red velvet, just need to get either a rod to hang it or need to make it. We're close, should be this week. I expect I'll need to make a trip to HD this week. I put the window back on the wall to get it off the table and had the camera out, so I figured I'd take a shot pre-velvet.

Bud

jikkjack

09-11-06, 08:29 AM

Looks great Bud!

Jason

rsberg34

09-11-06, 03:37 PM

Ticket window looks great bud as does the bar...you did an outstanding job, cant wait to see the finnished theater pics!

Robert

pathdoc

09-11-06, 03:48 PM

Continues to look great. Love the ticket window. I'm working on making my component cab look something like a ticket window.

chinadog

09-11-06, 08:03 PM

Thanks guys. My wife said she's almost done with the curtain (thought she was done yesterday), so it'll be a few more days likely, worst case be the end of the weekend. Sometimes its hard to work my project management magic on the better half... ;)

Bud

chinadog

09-11-06, 08:06 PM

Looks great Bud!

Jason

Thanks to you guys....

Bud

GranTheaterO

09-12-06, 09:41 PM

audiman

09-12-06, 10:41 PM

Chinadog :

i've notice that you have old "la belle province" license plate on your wall.

Why did you choose these particular ones ?

BritInVA

09-12-06, 10:43 PM

Sometimes its hard to work my project management magic on the better half... ;)

It's always a project managers nightmare when the critical path is held up by the top brass :D I'm sure we can all wait a few more days for the finished pics.

nuczn

09-13-06, 12:59 AM

very nice really has come together nicely bravo!!

chinadog

09-13-06, 07:01 AM

Chinadog :

i've notice that you have old "la belle province" license plate on your wall.

Why did you choose these particular ones ?

Actually, no particular reason. I love Montreal and Quebec. I've had the plates for some time, I picked up the top three plates at a flea market in Montreal while my wife and I were on our honeymoon 15 years ago. The Saskatchewan plate was an ebay purchase from a few years ago as well. I just thought they were neat. I have maybe 10 more plates in my workshop, but they're all plates we had on our cars over the years.

EDIT: Oh wait, I added the Saskatchewan later and its not int he pictures... I'll take another shot later.

Bud

chinadog

09-13-06, 07:05 AM

Hi Bud,

Just caught up on your September work, my jaw dropped. Very impressive! My wife and I took a look at the photos and we love your bar area, the deep stain color, all those cabinets, the counter and the awesome wood work. The ticket booth turned out great too. I know how much work it is and I only did half the stuff you did. Someone mentioned that your thread is like "This Old House", I agree.

Dave

Hey Dave, thanks. I'm real happy how it turned out. It's one of those things that was worth putting the extra effort into. The guys here really helped with advice on building it and of course Ben's brother Brian was a huge factor for the panels. Although I'm anxious to complete everything, sometimes I need to let things lie and think things through. Glad I didn't rush.

Bud

chinadog

09-13-06, 07:05 AM

very nice really has come together nicely bravo!!

Thanks!

Bud

chinadog

09-13-06, 07:07 AM

It's always a project managers nightmare when the critical path is held up by the top brass :D I'm sure we can all wait a few more days for the finished pics.

Agreed, and in this particular case, I just keep my lip buttoned and wait until it happens....

Bud

chinadog

09-13-06, 08:12 AM

Continues to look great. Love the ticket window. I'm working on making my component cab look something like a ticket window.

That's always cool. Thought about a full booth look, but never got that far. I could still do it at some point if I get adventurous, but probably won't.

Bud

chinadog

09-15-06, 11:58 AM

So a minor update. Picked up my spring rod for the window at Walmart and my wife finished sewing the curtain. Going to do one curtain versus two, its not going to open anyway. I could have her fudge a seam so it looks like two curtains, but I think it'll be fine. I should have it up tomorrow and will post some pictures.

Bud

garykagan

09-15-06, 10:18 PM

Really nice job on the ticket window Bud, my wife thought it was "cute" and she likes bald guys.....

Gary

chinadog

09-16-06, 08:13 AM

Thanks Gary. Hair is definately over rated .... for men at least... not that I have a lot of choice in the matter. :D

Bud

Mark P

09-16-06, 09:54 AM

Did you finish the theater and post pictures?

chinadog

09-16-06, 10:24 AM

Mark, basically done, but have not posted a series of pictures, just pictures along the way. Ruben was asking as well. I should be able to get to it this weekend.

Bud

chinadog

09-16-06, 02:25 PM

So I'm getting around to other things, like the front of my projector box. I worked on that this morning while the kids were at a bday party. What I did was build a small frame to cover the front of the box, then taped some copier paper on the front of it to get an idea of where the hole needs to be, then cranked up the projector. I drew some rough marks to get an idea of location.

http://images19.fotki.com/v292/photos/6/649633/3052581/100_1696-vi.jpg
http://images19.fotki.com/v292/photos/6/649633/3052581/100_1700-vi.jpg

I then cut out the rectangle and used that as a template for a piece of Masonite, squared up the rectangle, found the center and started making holes to get an idea of size required. I tried a 4" hole and it was a little small, so I went 5 inch.
http://images19.fotki.com/v22/photos/6/649633/3052581/100_1701-vi.jpg
http://images18.fotki.com/v16/photos/6/649633/3052581/100_1702-vi.jpg

I went ahead and attached the Masonite to the frame and painted it black. When its dry, I'll wrap it in black GOM like the rest of the box.
http://images18.fotki.com/v16/photos/6/649633/3052581/100_1703-vi.jpg
http://images19.fotki.com/v18/photos/6/649633/3052581/100_1704-vi.jpg

Bud

accts4mjs

09-16-06, 10:30 PM

Bud,

Does your fan on the projector blow forward or to the back? Mine blows forward and I'll have a 6" HVAC tube in the back of the box to pull the heat off but wondered what would happen if I put a cover on the box to "hush" it (not that it's really loud or anything, just cause mostly.

Thanks,
Mike

chinadog

09-17-06, 04:52 AM

Mike, it's an inline fan on a 4" duct. The fan itself is in my workshop. I have a vent on the back of the box itself for airflow. The air gets pulled from the front. The box itself is not very air tight, its more just to hide the projector than for noise.

Bud

ebr

09-17-06, 10:07 AM

Bud, I could be wrong, but I think he meant the fan in the projector itself - which end does it exhaust from...?

chinadog

09-17-06, 10:12 AM

Eric,

You're right, I was half awake when I read it.

Mike, the AE900 blows out from the front left while its ceiling mounted, front right table mounted. The vent for the inline fan is right in front of the projector mount.

Bud

accts4mjs

09-17-06, 07:56 PM

So does your vent actually go into the ceiling then? How do you get the air from the front of the projector into the hose? (I'm not quite picturing it.)

Thanks,
Mike

chinadog

09-18-06, 07:25 AM

Mike,

The inline fan pulls the air from the box through the flex duct and out the other end. The vent is in the box in the soffit and the duct runs from the box out of the theater room and to the fan in my workshop. I have a thermostat in the box itself and it kicks the inline fan on when it reaches a specific temperature.

Think about a bathroom fan that is temperature controlled, but instead of it being in the ceiling, it's at the other end of the duct. They look like this:

http://www.alerg.com/page/A/PROD/air6/AF8045?ovmkt=FJUIVHPU9TRFE00CCPNCNL97GO

or this:

http://www.rewci.com/panwhisvenfa.html

Bud

richh

09-18-06, 10:27 AM

Bud,

I have a question regarding those inline fans. I want to install a vent above my projector (not in a hush box though). I was thinking i can put in a whisper fan in the ceiling a foot or so behind the projector and then vent it to another part of the basement. The other option would be to install an inline fan in an adjacent room to the HT and then run the 4" duct to a register in the ceiling behind the projector. The ceiling mount fan is .3 sones, 80 cfm. The smallest Panasonic inline fan is 120 cfm, but at 1 sone. So I guess I'm trying to figure out which would be quieter, a .3 sone fan right above the seat, or a remotely mounted 1 scone fan. The run of duct from the inline fan to the projector would be about 18 feet. I called Panasonic but wasn't able to get any answers there. Would appreciate any insight you have on this.

Thanks

chinadog

09-18-06, 10:58 AM

Rich,

I'd go with the inline fan, personally. From your figures, the inline fan moves more air and by putting it in another room, you pretty much remove all the noise. You'd want it somewhere where you can actually get to it or replace it. Don't bury it in some drywall. My equipment closet fan is pretty quite, one thing I will note is that when I'm in the concession area after a movie, I can hear the flapper. I probably should have never installed it since I'm not venting outside (again to my workshop). You can't hear it in the HT room and if I did, I could shut the door, but something to consider IF you decide to go ceiling mount. Also, aesthetically, the ceiling fan may look a little odd up there versus just a register....

Hope that helps.

Bud

richh

09-18-06, 11:52 AM

Thanks for the advice Bud. My plumbing inspector nixed my plans for a basement bathroom (after I bought the vent fan for it) so I have the 80 cfm whisper in ceiling fan on hand. That's why I was contemplating using it. Anyway, I think I'll take your advice and go the inline route.

Thanks again,
Rich

chinadog

09-22-06, 08:45 AM

Couple of quick updates. The front of the projector box is GOMed, just not installed yet. I drilled the holes for magnets and although it should work, I may up going the velcro route. I just need to get some. I don't like putting those velcro things on GOM because when you pull the panel off, it'll pull the GOM as well. I should have thought trough attaching the panel some more. Not enough room for hinges or anything link that, the way I designed the box. Next time I'll fine tune the design prior to building it.

The curtain is temporarily hanging in the ticket window. Then needs to be trimmed rehung. Looks pretty good.

Lastly, I'm sitting here waiting for the plumber. Figured he be here by now. He's going to install the bar sink faucet, P-trap, and that funky vent (whatever its called). He'll also need to run the stuff for dishwasher so I can install that.

Getting there.

Bud

SVonhof

09-22-06, 08:55 AM

chinadog

09-22-06, 08:59 AM

I assume the vent you are talking about is because you don't have an actual vent in the walls? I don't know what it's called either, but is used when people have a island with a sink. I have heard that in some areas you can also just simply loop the drain pipes up toward the countertop and then come back down, which allows the air to move around and lets the drain work properly (I don't think it's legal in CA.)

Scott, that's exactly it. We have a similar setup upstairs in our kitchen where the sinks is in the middle of the room, it's got one of the those vents as well. I'll take pictures once he installs it for the bar. There is too much stuff under the kitchen sink to get to it and take pictures. I didn't realize you could loop like you mentioned.

Bud

VorlonFog

09-22-06, 09:00 AM

I believe they call it a Studer vent. We've got one under our downstairs sink.

SVonhof

09-22-06, 09:04 AM

Scott, that's exactly it. We have a similar setup upstairs in our kitchen where the sinks is in the middle of the room, it's got one of the those vents as well. I'll take pictures once he installs it for the bar. There is too much stuff under the kitchen sink to get to it and take pictures. I didn't realize you could loop like you mentioned.

Bud

I wouldn't have known it was possible to make a loop either, but I saw it done in "The Family Handiman" magazine. Like I said though, it may not be legal everywhere to do it that way. The actual vent device that is used is basically a check valve to allow the air in and nothing out.

jikkjack

09-22-06, 09:18 AM

Hey Bud,

While you are sitting there waiting for the plumber...I am sitting here waiting for the carpet guys to show up. :-)

rmcveigh

09-22-06, 11:53 AM

I believe they call it a Studer vent. We've got one under our downstairs sink.

Yep, it is a studor vent (http://www.studor.com ). They can be found at the big box stores for about $20. If you have an island with plumbing, this is a fairly typical way (at least in CO) to vent it.

-Ryan

accts4mjs

09-22-06, 12:14 PM

Couple of quick updates. The front of the projector box is GOMed, just not installed yet. I drilled the holes for magnets and although it should work, I may up going the velcro route. I just need to get some. I don't like putting those velcro things on GOM because when you pull the panel off, it'll pull the GOM as well. I should have thought trough attaching the panel some more. Not enough room for hinges or anything link that, the way I designed the box. Next time I'll fine tune the design prior to building it.

Bud,

Are you using rare earth magnets? Those will hold no problem. That's how I'm going to mount my velvet frame to the backing around the screen so I can pull it off if needed.

Mike