First, I mention that I do not have a "real" surround sound system supporting my 34XBR960 (nor my Sampo 34" before the Sony). I've never had quite the room space for what was needed. So ever since 2001 I've been listening only to conventional L/R stereo to go along with watching HDTV... either through real speakers on either side of the HDTV, or through my high-end Stax Omega headphones (1995 pricy vintage, not recent VERY pricy Omega-II) and Stax SRM-T1S tube amp (VERY pricy, but not nearly what current version costs).

Truth be told, my L/R stereo source is first fed through a DBX 14/10 Computerized Equalizer/Analyzer (we're talking 80's-vintage magic, that they don't make anymore) for my tone control, and then on to the SRM-T1S. This makes listening through my Stax Omega headphones an absolute joy, even if it is only 2-channel stereo (at least until now).

I will say this has been "acceptable", but not what I really wanted. Given the proper room situation (and living in a private home rather than apartment/condo) I would have built a surround system. Until now, that was not to be, much to my frustration.

However now I share a recent (well, it's really several years old) breakthrough discovery: Dolby Headphone encoding technology!

This process takes various standard Dolby/DTS digital multi-track input formats and re-encodes it (somehow injecting "spatial cues") to produce a 2-track L/R output intended for any pair of headphones. The result, when listened to through ordinary headphones, supposedly closely approximates the psychoacoustic environment of a true DD5.1 external speaker arrangement... but through any pair of ordinary headphones.


Apparently, this technology was invented in Australia back in 2000 and was licensed by Dolby, who now licenses it as "Dolby Headphone"... but with a seemingly very limited public face. For example, I know it's available in some PC-based media players (e.g. CinePlayer Surround 1.5 and WinDVD Platinum 6), and it also was packaged on some receivers (one from Denon, I forget the model). Support is through the headphone jack on either the sound card, computer speakers, or receiver.

None of this was that applicable to my needs, however. I didn't have that Denon receiver (else I'd probably already have a real surround sound setup!), and I wasn't going to use my PC to watch HDTV. I wanted something a bit more practical and specially suited for my special situation, such as a "standalone Dolby Headphone" encoder box which could be fed by digital optical audio cable from my HDTV-adjacent source devices (JVC 40K and DT100U, DCT6412, DVD). And ideally, I would be able to connect my Stax amp/headphones to listen in top-quality to the Dolby Headphone output.

Enter the magic answer: Pioneer SE-DIR1000C Digital Cordless Surround Headphone. For some strange reason it's not available in America, but it can be purchased from a retailer in Osaka Japan ($439) and shipped here (for $7.50), including a free US-to-Japanese (120V to 100V) AC power transformer. Mine took 7 days from order to delivery.

Pioneer SE-DIR1000C Dolby Digital Headphones (http://www.audiocubes.com/product/Pioneer_SE-DIR1000C_Dolby_Digital_Surround_Headphone.html)

Note: I already had the component video and L/R audio of all of my HDTV sources going through a Zektor HDS4 switch (as well as being firewire-connected to the XBR960). I've now added a Toslink optical audio connection from each of these devices to the Zektor inputs (which supports both Toslink and coax for digital audio). The Toslink output from the Zektor is now connected to the Toslink input of the Pioneer DIR1000C. Thus when selecting input via the Zektor, I'm also using the switch to select which digital audio source is to feed the DIR1000C to produce Dolby Headphone output. Even if I choose to watch the video on the XBR960 via firewire, selecting the corresponding input at the same time on the Zektor gets the proper digital audio source routed to the DIR1000C.


Now, in addition to the electronics the product includes an excellent sounding pair of wireless RF headphones (model SE-DIR1000), which runs off of two rechargeable AA-size batteries, which I'm guessing are lithium ion although I don't know for sure since the user manual is all in Japanese (very amusing).

The packaging is primarily English, as are all of the light and button captions on the unit itself (so you'd think this product was intended for the English-speaking world)... but the instructions are entirely in Japanese, with an occasional English word thrown in. But this turns out to not really be a problem, as the unit is very simple and intuitive to set up and use... not in small part due to the English captions on everything that's hardware.

The headphones have a small volume control dial near one ear pad, and a "charge" connector on the other ear pad. The "charge" cable goes to the back of the base unit and can be kept connected while listening (although it's really pretty short for ordinary use, unless you're sitting next to the base unit). I chose to simply charge the batteries (perhaps 6 hours, after which the "charge" light on the unit went off suggesting the process was finished, although this is really nothing more than a timer-based turnoff such as is done with cell phone chargers).

The user manual has a graphic which shows a usable distance for the headphones of perhaps 10 meters from the base unit (which has the wireless RF transmitter built in). Sound quality is excellent, but I thought the bass was just a little light for my taste. Even at maximum volume (from the amp that's built into the headphones) I wanted a bit more. Unfortunately there is no bass/treble tone control, so all you listen to is exactly what is on the original multi-track source encoded to Dolby Headphone. May be purist, but not sufficient for me.

What was truly amazing about these headphones, however, was that they were ABSOLUTELY SILENT except if they're on your head! In other words, they're perfect for "bed use" late at night in order not to bother your better half. I mean absolutely silent, even when playing sound and the headphones are on the floor... you can't hear it from the outside. Only when you put it on your head can you hear its great sound output from the inside of the ear pads. Quite remarkable.


Now for the really good news: the base unit itself, and its electronics! The unit also provides a 1/4" phono jack, so that you can plug in your own external wired headphones as an alternative to the wireless phones provided. Plugging in the wired phones does not disable the wireless transmitter, so you can listen to both at the same time. In fact you can even buy additional DIR-1000 wireless headphones if you want, and they can all be used simultaneously.

In support of the 1/4" phono jack there is a "level" control, for the output level provided by the amp builti into the base unit to the wired headphones plugged into this headphone jack. I tried my Sony MDR-V900 headphones first, and was quite disappointed. I thought these were good headphones (and they are), but they didn't sound very good at all. Much worse than the DIR-1000 wireless phones. The problem, I believe, is that they're not very efficient and need more power than the Pioneer base unit amp puts out. Perhaps if you have a more efficient set of wired headphones they might sound better, but in my case I would definitely not use the MDR-V900. I would simply stick with the DIR-1000 wireless.


Finally, I tried my ultimate configuration. I connected the 1/4" phone jack from the base unit to the L/R line input of my DBX 14/10 EQ, which then goes on to the Stax SRM-T1S amp. At first I was concerned about overloading, since I was feeding an amplified variable signal to the line-level input of the DBX/Stax. But it turns out the output level of the Pioneer base unit amp is really quite low... something I already knew from my MDR-V900 experiment. Turns out, even at maximum output the amp is putting out what is essentially line-level voltage! And DIGITALLY CLEAN! Pristine! Amazing! For an analog amplifier, this one is really superb.

In other words, with the base unit level set at maximum output I also had the DBX EQ setting and SRM-T1S amp level set just where I've always had them even when being fed previously from true L/R line-level sources. And there was no overload at all, and there was also perfect quality sound. No analog artifacts of any kind whatsoever.

Well, this was just terrific! No analog noise, no double-amplifier issues, just perfect perfect sound... and in Dolby Headphone, giving me what I'd always really wanted, which was surround sound from a digital multi-track source with the absolute magic and clarity and pinpoint detail of my Stax Omega headphones.

So my early fears about the lack of a line-level output on the Pioneer base unit were unfounded. Turns out amplified headphone jack is seemingly identical to line-level when the level is turned up to maximum. WONDERFUL!

And the specs of the unit itself are great: frequency response: 10 - 24,000Hz. While the wireless headphones might not respond this well, going through my wired DBX/Stax sure sounds fantastic. I watched a baseball game tonight on ESPNHD in DD5.1, and was flabbergasted at what I'd been missing all these years. I watched "The Last Waltz" DVD and thought I was in the theater. I watched "The Eagles Farewell 1 Concert" on D-VHS and got chills.

REMARKABLE! Of course my DBX/Stax is part of this to be sure. You should all be so lucky.


The Pioneer base unit supports the three Dolby Headphone listening configurations (DH1, DH2 and DH3) as well as off. Off means ordinary 2-channel L/R stereo. DH1: Room reverberation in a defined space. DH2: Moderate reverberation in a general listening room. DH3: Small-scale cinema. These settings are available with a button on the front. Listening with DH1 is "normal", sounding like an ordinary home closed room sound environment, very intimate, precise and quiet. That's what I use.

The unit also has a L/R line-input on the back (fed through its amp to the headphone jack or transmitted wirelessly to the DIR-1000 wireless headphones), and you can choose either digital input (from the Toslink source) or analog input (from the L/R line-input) with a button on the front. There's an input level slide switch on the back which indicates "0db" or "-8db", depending on the level of the source. I'm not sure exactly which setting means what (since the instructions are in Japanese!) but I left it at the factory-provided "-8db" which seemed to be perfectly compatible when I tried my analog L/R audio sources fed from the Zektor switch. Audio quality out of the headphones in this mode was still terrific (but obviously not Dolby Headphone, since the input was not multi-track digital).

There is also a button on the front to identify the DOLBY PROLOGICII mode to use: AUTO/MOVIE/MUSIC/OFF.

When using digital input, the electronics automatically determine the type of multi-track encoding method in use (Dolby DTS, Dolby Pro-logic II, Dolby digital EX, DTS-ES) and handles it accordingly, producing Dolby Headphone output from all sources.

The various options selected and mode-in-effect indicators are represented by an attractive array of small red LED's behind a clear plastic face on the unit. Very sexy. When listening to a DD5.1 Dolby Surround source being approximated by Dolby Headphone, there are five red LED's arranged around a sixth LED (representing you, in your headphones) to show you what's being produced as if it were coming from speakers positioned like the LED's. Lesser multi-track and 2-track L/R sources display differently, but correspondingly represent graphically what you are listening to.

Also, the unit stands vertically on an oval base by default, but the base can be removed and re-fastened using screwholes on the "bottom" so that the unit can also be positioned horizontally (i.e. like a book lying on a table)... if that's what you want. In fact, the unit is pretty much the size of a book. Quite compact and attractive.

So, while the DIR-1000 wireless headphones that are provided are definitely excellent (surprisingly so), I will be using my DBX/Stax wired arrangement. And I will now be listening in Dolby Surround (or rather, Dolby Headphone) to everything... be it DVD, Comcast cable via DCT6412, or D-VHS.


I'm thrilled with the results. And I had to share my discovery. This truly is multi-track Dolby Surround via headphones (through the magic of Dolby Headphone re-encoding from the original digital optical multi-track source).

The sound has the expected digital clarity and is absolutely noise-free. I can tell from the graphic LED's on my DBX 14/10 (which all are at rest at zero) that there is zero noise, buzz, or hiss injected by either the signal processor or the multiple stages of amplification. It is completely digitally silent, until the voice/music appears.

If you've been looking for a terrific headphone-based solution to enjoying HDTV and rather loud multi-track sound late at night, when either your partner or downstairs neighbor will have none of it, you should really look into this. The Pioneer wireless headphones are 100% silent from the outside, while providing a new world of Dolby Headphone on the inside. And the option of using your own high-efficiency wired headphones or even external amp/headphones if you want... well what more could you ask for (except perhaps a DBX/Stax setup of your own)?

The US-to-Japanese AC power converter ($30 value, included for free) worked perfectly. Just plug the provided Pioneer-provided Japanese AC adapter into the US-to-Japanese converter and then plug that converter into the wall, and you're in business.

I've now had opportunities to listen to some of my D-VHS HD archive recordings in Dolby Digital Headphone using my new DIR1000C/DBX/Stax setup... simply fantastic, now that I'm hearing the DD5.1!

I listened to the DiscHD 2004 Proms concert (with Anna Netrebko soprano), and was almost crying. I listened to "The Last Waltz" and "Eagles Live 1 Farewell", and thought I was there!

I've also observed that the 2-channel digital PCM audio obtained from this setup (facilitated by disabling the Dolby Headphone encoding function on the DIR1000C) is clearly superior to the analog equivalent coming out of the conventional analog red/white L/R stereo jacks of the true source devices. This digital L/R 2-channel audio sounds superior whether I'm listening through the Stax headphones or when listening to this DIR1000C-produced output fed through my true external 2.1 Altec Lansing speakers.

Still gets my 5-star recommendation, for those who need a headphone solution because of apartment/condo or spouse/partner limitations.

FYI, Pioneer released a newer model # SE-DIR800c in US. It's cheaper, smaller and reportedly comparable to original SE-DIR1000. Check out Amps and Recivers forum with a long thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=356882 about this head phone.

FYI, Pioneer released a newer model # SE-DIR800c in US. It's cheaper, smaller and reportedly comparable to original SE-DIR1000. Check out Amps and Recivers forum with a long thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=356882 about this head phone.Thanks for the lead to this other thread.

I investigated the DIR800 product, but decided against it. It does not have a headphone jack and associated output amp level control, but rather only supports the provided wireless headphones. This very siginificant limitation was unacceptable to me.

The DIR1000 product has slightly better frequency response specs, has a slightly better wireless headphone included, and supports both an optional wired headphone or external amp/headphone through its headphone jack and output level control. In fact, while the DIR1000 wireless headphones sound surprisingly good, as has been reported by others they (and the DIR800 phones) have less than stellar bass response.

In fact, I will likely never use the phones. I will only use my wired DBX/Stax EQ/amp arrangement (which provides analog tone control to the Dolby Headphone output from the DIR1000) connected (wired) to the headphone jack of the DIR1000 base unit to feed my Stax Omega headphones. This also avoids IR line-of-sight issues which might be present for the Pioneer phones.

The DIR800 supports both optical digital input as well as coax digital input, which would be of value if you wanted to connect it to a coax-only digital source (e.g. from the Audigy 2 PC sound card, which does not have optical output). But in my case that was not relevant. The optical-only DIR1000 limitation is not a problem for me, since I am only going to use it connected from the optical outputs from my HDTV-adjacent sources.

I love the DIR1000. $439, but worth every penny for me... even it did not include phones. I've been listening only with DH1 but will experiment a little with DH2 which adds just a little reverb which I'm not really looking for. But maybe for the right source content it's enjoyable, as might be DH3 for concerts. I'll see.

I've been looking into DD wireless headphones. Thought about the Pioneer, but didn't like the idea of having to remove the batteries to recharge as opposed to having the battery contacts built into the headphones and recharging simply by placing the headphones on the cradle.

I've got the Sony MDR-DS4000 and Panasonic RP-WH5000 coming. I'll compare the two and see which one is better. I've heard they may be a problem with interference with a plasma, which I have. If so, I guess both will go back. Otherwise, I'll report on my evaluation next week.

Thanks for the lead to this other thread.

I investigated the DIR800 product, but decided against it. It does not have a headphone jack and associated output amp level control, but rather only supports the provided wireless headphones. This very siginificant limitation was unacceptable to me.


Nope. I have a DIR-SE800c and it DOES have a headphone jack and level control.

I've been looking into DD wireless headphones. Thought about the Pioneer, but didn't like the idea of having to remove the batteries to recharge as opposed to having the battery contacts built into the headphones and recharging simply by placing the headphones on the cradle.


Pioneer actually uses regular AA regarable batteries. The ones come with the headphones are 1600mAH ones and the charger built into the base unit is just a slow charger. You can easily pick up a few 2300mAH digital camera rechargable battery and a quick charger as well. I never used the original batteries. I got a dozen or so betteries and quick charger bought from Costco for real cheap:D A set of battery can run more than a week. With a dozen in hand, there is no worry about running out of battery.

I've been looking into DD wireless headphones. Thought about the Pioneer, but didn't like the idea of having to remove the batteries to recharge as opposed to having the battery contacts built into the headphones and recharging simply by placing the headphones on the cradle.I don't know where you got that idea about the DIR1000 phones. There is no need to remove the batteries to recharge, and in fact there's no device/adapter provided in which to put those batteries in order to recharge them.

Instead, there is a "charge" jack right on one of the headphone pads. That's how you're supposed to charge/re-charge the batteries... with the batteries inserted inside the headphones, not removed.

You just plug one end of the charging cable into that jack and the other end of the cable into the "charge" jack on the back of the base unit. That's it. Charging starts, and goes for 12 hours (or, presumably, whenever the AA-NiMH batteries fill up) at which time the "charging" LED turns off on the base unit. The base unit has a rack piece on the top that allows you to hang the phones on them while not in use or when charging.

If you have the base unit sitting close by to where you're sitting, you can listen this way (i.e. with the charging cable connected) and not actually run the batteries down. Otherwise, I believe the batteries are supposed to have around a 29 hour life before absolutely requiring a recharge.

I've got the Sony MDR-DS4000 and Panasonic RP-WH5000 coming. I'll compare the two and see which one is better. I've heard they may be a problem with interference with a plasma, which I have. If so, I guess both will go back. Otherwise, I'll report on my evaluation next week.I was unaware of both of these products, but now that I've looked at their descriptions I would think that the Sony appears to be the superior of the two. But I don't know how either deals with the job of multi-track input encoding down to 2-channel out to the phones. Probably some proprietary technique, otherwise they would certainly have indicated if Dolby Headphone was the encoding technology used.

However neither gives me what I really wanted, which was the ability to use my Stax Omega analog headphones as the listening device (connected to the Stax SRM-T1S amp), feeding it from a digital multi-track audio source. Furthermore, my Stax SRM-T1S is fed from my DBX 14/10 Computerized EQ/Analyzer, so that I can first tonally adjust the analog L/R audio with a 14-band EQ. Hence my requirement that the new box, whatever it was, had to have the equivalent of a line-level output to feed the DBX.

Neither the Sony nor Panasonic provides a headphone jack (and associated amplifier, with output level control)... which is what makes the Pioneer DIR-1000C such a great device for me. I wasn't looking for another set of headphones, I was looking ideally just for a box that converted Dolby digital multi-track audio to 2-channel output which I could then feed into my DBX/Stax. I'm likely NEVER going to use the Pioneer wireless headphones, as good as they actually are. Nothing compares to the Stax Omega's and the SRM-T1S amp.

I don't know where you got that idea about the DIR1000 phones. There is no need to remove the batteries to recharge, and in fact there's no device/adapter provided in which to put those batteries in order to recharge them.



I should have been more specific. I was referring to the SE-DIR800 Pioneer headphones, which is the only DD headphones I saw on the Pioneer site. I know you got your DIR1000 overseas.

My needs are very different from yours. For those times I have to keep the volume down while I watch a movie, I wanted headphones that would simulate DD or DTS and were wireless. I'll see how the Sony and Panasonic fulfill this requirement. If they don't do a decent job, they'll go back.

I should have been more specific. I was referring to the SE-DIR800 Pioneer headphones, which is the only DD headphones I saw on the Pioneer site. I know you got your DIR1000 overseas.Ah, now I see. The various writeups are a bit sparse, but it's now clear that there's a recharger for the batteries in the DIR800 base unit.

And, it looks like I have to correct my earlier comment that the DIR800 didn't have a headphone jack (for wired headphones) and related volume control. As I look closer at the picture and writeup, it does indeed now appear that this feature is present on the DIR800, making it certainly very competitive feature-for-feature with the DIR1000.

Do report back on your Sony and Panasonic results.

Moved here from HDTV Hardware, not sure where else it should go.

From what I read, Sony DS4000 uses Sony's own algorithm to simulate multi-channel surround sound which is not as good as Dolby Head Phone techonolgy used by Pioneer. Now Sony DS8000, from the reviews I read, is superbe. The only problem is its cost ($800).

Moved here from HDTV Hardware, not sure where else it should go.

Most of the other threads on headphones are in the amps, receivers, and processors section.

Pioneer actually uses regular AA regarable batteries. The ones come with the headphones are 1600mAH ones and the charger built into the base unit is just a slow charger. You can easily pick up a few 2300mAH digital camera rechargable battery and a quick charger as well. I never used the original batteries. I got a dozen or so betteries and quick charger bought from Costco for real cheap:D A set of battery can run more than a week. With a dozen in hand, there is no worry about running out of battery.

Thanks for the info. Since I have the Sony and Panasonic models coming, I'll give them a try. If they aren't satisfactory, they'll get returned and I'll try the Pioneer 800. The surround audio test on the DVE DVD seems like a good way to really test the accuracy of the DD headphones.

Here's another long review of the Pioneer phones at a headphone site:
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=27532
Somewhere at that site I also commented on my purchase of them some time back from Japan, as well as in the audio hardware section here. A surround-sound test using the 5.1 test band on the Avia test DVD was fine for directionality--providing it's run in the 'largest' concert-hall (3) mode. Watching 5.1 movies this way seems to meld the audio with the screen about 8' away so the 5.1 doesn't seem to be coming from inside your head--the whole idea behind Dolby Headphones. I extended my headphone receiver section from near my 64" RPTV about 9' away, near a viewing position, using an optical cable from Radio Shack. So far the batteries are still charging, although I now usually wear the headphones with the recharging cable plugged in rather than batteries-only mode. -- John

I think this thread is better placed in the Amps, Receivers, and Processors section. Wireless DD headphones aren't really a Home Theater in a Box, but more of a processor.

I received the Panasonic RP-WH500 and Sony MDR-DS4000. The Panasonic sounded OK. I tried it first. But it only took about 10 minutes to easily decide the Sony sounded better. So, the Panasonic will go back. The Sony does sound good, but I have nothing "better" to compare it to. And now I've become intrigued with the Dolby Headphone processing of the Pioneer DIR800 and am wondering if they would sound better. I initially didn't consider it because of the need to remove the batteries for recharging. Since then, I've realized that isn't such a big deal and I'm considering ordering the Pioneer to try it. I can return the Sony without any penalty (other than shipping). But if I get the Pioneer (from OneCall), and decide I don't like it as much as the Sony, there will be a 15% restocking charge. So, I question is will the Dolby Headphone technology make a significant improvement over Sony's proprietary processing?

Ordered the Pioneer DIR800. Will have it Tuesday and compare it to the Sony. But I think this thread is largely dead and useless in this section. After the comparison, I may start a new thread in a different section.

So, I question is will the Dolby Headphone technology make a significant improvement over Sony's proprietary processing?
The DH audio, outlined in detail at Dolby's site, has often been cited as better than Sony's approach. Vaguely recall reviews here a while back (audio forums) and at the headphone site I posted above. Guess it all boils down to personal taste. The experts at the headphone site often claim Sennheiser's high-end phones work best with DH. The Pioneer DH receiver has a spare jack for an extra standard headphone; haven't tried it yet. -- John

Many PC DVD playback software have DD Headphone function. You may need the retail version not OEM version. That should give you a direct comparison between DD Headphone and Sony.

John, thanks. I'll find out tomorrow night (Tues) when I compare the Pioneer to the Sony. I have an old Sennheiser I can try, but one of the goals was to have a wireless setup, so I'll have to use the headphones that come with the base regardless. I can just imagine a long cable from the base to the headphones. My cats will be very happy to play with it, but I'll go nuts. The Sony sounded OK, but didn't have the "forward" location from the fronts that others have described with Dolby Headphone technology. I'll see if that's better with the Pioneer.

Foxbat, good suggestion, but I don't have a PC (I use a Mac).

I'll post my observations later in the week.

I don't have any Sennheiser headphones to compare to, but as I mentioned earlier in this thread I tried (1) my Sony MDR-V900 plugged into the headphone jack of the DIR-SE1000C base unit, and (2) my Stax Omega headphones which plug into the matching Stax SRM-T1S amplifier, whose line-level inputs I connected to the line-level outputs of my DBX 14/10 Computerized EQ/Analyzer (for 14-band analog L/R tone control), whose line-level inputs I then connected to the headphone jack of the DIR-SE1000C base unit. In other words, using the DBX/Stax route I had a 14-band EQ in the mix as well as a second class-A tube amplifier for the headphones to boost the modest output of the Pioneer amplifier (which even at maximum level didn't seem to put out much above line-level).

I found that the headphone jack output stage did not have the amplification to drive the Sony MDR-V900 phones adequately, which surprised me a first. Perhaps they just weren't a "match". I had always thought these were excellent quality headphones when used with a Sony mini-CD player (perhaps a better "match"), which I would have thought would not have as strong an amplifier as the DIR-SE1000C base unit would likely have. But who knows?

All I know is that the performance of the apparently low-efficiency MDR-V900 phones in conjunction with the Pioneer base unit would have to be rated "not acceptable". I don't know how any Sennheiser headphones will perform, but unless they're high-efficiency I fear the wired output amplifier stage of the Pioneer base unit might be inadequate for high quality sound.

In contrast, the quality of the DBX/Stax arrangement, with the Stax SRM-T1S as a second amplifier (essentially using the Pioneer output amplifier as if it were a preamp) produces truly gorgeous sound. The Stax headphones have their own 10-ft flat ribbon cable and I also have a 5-meter Stax extension cord as well, so that with this net 26-foot connection to the SRM-T1S I can sit anywhere in the room.

In other words, the analog audio output quality of the Pioneer Dolby Headphone circuitry (preamp and amp stages) is truly superb... if a bit underpowered. But with the addition of a second dedicated high-end SRM-T1S headphone amp and super-quality Stax Omega headphones, well I've put the Pioneer headphones in the closet... likely never to be used. I have a second Stax Lambda Signature headphone for use by "visiting dignitaries", which plugs into the second "pro-only" socket on the SRM-T1S (where the first "pro-only" socket is used by my Stax Omega). I used to have a third pair of old Stax headphones that could be inserted into the "normal-only" socket of the SRM-T1S, but they're no longer in usable condition. In other words, I can provide a second glorious wired DBX/Stax Dolby Headphone experience if I need to, making the wireless Pioneer headphones truly unnecessary.

Reference material arrived today: Eagle's "Hell Freezes Over" and "Farewell 1 Tour" DVD's, along with "Dido Live" and "Britney Spears Greatest Hits". This assortment of material gave me a real opportunity to experiment with Dolby Headphone DH1/DH2/DH3 as well as ProLogic-II movie vs. music.

First, I have to say that "Hell Freezes Over" was amazing... except that it wasn't in 16x9. But it brought back fond memories of that concert (I saw it at Irvine Meadows in 1994), especially the backup drummer Peter Frampton lookalike (who was a terrific musician), the additional musicians and voices as well as orchestral accompaniment, etc. And I must say, Don Felder was definitely missed (by me, anyway) in "Farewell 1 Tour". The fill-in new guy was ok, but he's not the same talented inventive guitarist that Don Felder was.

That having been said, I must say that while DH1 has seemed appropriate for normal TV watching, it was clearly wrong for these concert presentations. Everything sounded compressed into a small space, giving almost no sensation of size. Even DH2, while a marked improvement over DH1 for this content, still did not accurately reflect the distances involved. There was just too much sound information for my brain to make sense of, given the smaller virtual sound field size presented with DH1 and DH2. The spatially compressed result was unsatisfying.

It was only with DH3 that I felt I was actually there, with the sound field spread out properly and with the virtual distances between the instruments and singers and me, the listener, an accurate portrayal of what I was watching and hearing... really as if I was in the audience at the concert and yet fairly close up to the stage. It now made sense, with all of the music now allowed to "breathe naturally" in the wide open space in front of me (and audience around and behind me) which I could now appreciate. I was there.

Previously, my experiments with DH2 and especially DH3 on ordinary TV had not been good ones, with my observing negatively about the seemingly excessive and obviously artificial reverb. This was distracting and inappropriate for the content, so I felt. Well, in this Eagle's concert venue environment it did not seem like reverb at all, nor did it seem artificial. In fact, it seemed like reality and open space and fresh air, with the apparent distances between instruments and between the stage and me now all in proper perspective and content-appropriate. I could even detect that the arena for HFO was definitely smaller than much larger Rod Laver Arena for F1T. The mike placement around the audience and resulting sensations clearly came through in DH3 and clearly conveyed the two different virtual sizes of the two different places. It was wonderfully realistic with HFO being slightly more "intimate". (Actually, I think this concert was taped for an MTV audience in a relatively small auditorium in LA, as part of the warmup for the actual tour. I know that the then-new Latin-sounding "Hotel California" performance from the DVD was shown as a video on MTV around that time as part of the pre-tour publicity blitz.)

Furthermore, I can only imagine what "Hell Freezes Over" sounds like in a real home theater environment with real speakers, given what it sounded like to me in DH3 headphones. Just remarkable. What clarity! What reality!

As far as "Farewell 1 Tour", well that too demanded DH3 for maximum enjoyment and sensation of reality. DH1 and DH2 were just not right. And of course the visual splendor of modern 16x9 videotape made the experience all the more enjoyable, pretty close to the HD showing on NBC earlier this month. I must add that I did NOT like the much anticipated performance of "Lyin' Eyes" on this DVD, and in retrospect am glad they chose not to include it in the NBC show. The whole arrangement was "sedated" and disappointing, with none of the musical excitement of the original recording (or the identical sounding "Hell Freezes Over" tour performance, which sadly did not make it to the DVD). The elegant transitions and progressions of the original studio recording, as well as stunning guitar accents and vocal sparkle, was simply not present in this arrangement. Unlike with their new arrangement of "New Kid In Town" which I enjoyed, this new arrangement of "Lyin' Eyes" gets thrown back.

As for a comparison between the two DVD's, I'd say HFO actually sounded better than F1T despite being from a 1994 recording and a 1999 video. But BOTH of these should be "reference material", either for home theater (I can only wish) or for Dolby Headphones or competitive equivalent. Unless you hear them properly, you can't imagine how enjoyable they are. I even tried listening to the 2-track L/R stereo track for comparison, and just chuckled at what I'd been listening to all of these years. Needless to say, the comparison lasted but a moment and I was instantly back into DH3 and singing along happily.

What was quite remarkable about DH3 for both of these concerts is that I could clearly discern the overall size of the venue, as well as the placement of and distances between the musicians and the audience. Mike placement, multi-track sound mixing, and Dolby Headphone compression of the multi-track source obviously all contributed to the experience. Given a choice, by experiment you definitely would not want to listen in DH1 or DH2. DH3 was the clear winner.

Regarding "Dido Live", well it was simply very disappointing... both visually and sonically. However I did get to compare a DD5.1 sound track vs. DTS. I much preferred DTS, which to me appeared much more realistic (again using DH3, which sounded much better than DH1 or DH2 for this content). Is this always the case?

Furthermore, it seemed to be shot in some kind of cross between film and video (perhaps videotape transferred to film?), but I think it was film with stage lighting... sort of how the MTV Awards shows sometimes look, sort of MPEG-like being non-film but also being definitely not videotape. Anyway it did not look good and I didn't like it. The cameras were too few and much too far away, providing disappointing perspectives (unlike the Eagle's video work, which was stupendous). I'd rate the sound poor. Not recommended.

Britney? What can I say. Ordinary stereo (as best I can tell) and there was no audio setup option. However ProLogic-II "music" definitely seemed superior to "movie", probably being appropriate to the ordinary stereo sound track that seemed to be what was on the DVD. Interestingly, once "music" was selected I couldn't detect any difference in DH1, DH2 and DH3. Probably intentional and by design. But "music" definitely sounded the best, given that I was watching music videos and not a movie or concert in an arena.


So... what have I learned?

That there definitely IS a proper use for DH1, DH2 and DH3... based on content. And that there definitely IS a use for ProLogic-II "music" vs. "movie", to again provide a better (and clearly proper) listening result... again based on content.

I'm guessing that similar processor options are available with "real speakers" in a home theater environment, to be used appropriately for similarly varied subject content in order to maximize the overall listening (and viewing) experience.

But when listening through headphones (admittedly, through my DBX/Stax SRM-T1S/Omega appendage rather than just the Pioneer wireless headphones) and the Pioneer DIR-SE1000C providing Dolby Headphone output, the content should definitely drive what DHx and ProLogic-II setting is used... in order to derive maximum listening and viewing pleasure. No one particular combination of settings can be thought of as "best", except for a particular source content.

And... HFO and F1T should both be in everyone's DVD collection. No question.

I've had a few days to listen to the Pioneer SE-DIR800C. The Sony and Panasonic were returned. The Pioneer was clearly superior to the other two in it's ability to separate the multiple Dolby Digital channels. The directionality was superb. A few times, I actually found myself looking at my front speakers thinking I forgotten to turn down the speaker volume. The sound clarity is terrific.

The only thing I'm not sure about with the Pioneer is what appears to be excessive reverberation when any of the Dolby Headphone settings were invoked. DH1 has the least and DH3 has the most reverberation. No reverberation when DH is off, but then there is no multiple channel effect, at least that's the way it appears. Frankly, I'm not sure if the reverberation (or perhaps liveliness is a better word) is a more natural and realistic effect or if it's artificial. I'm used to listening from good speakers, but my living room has very few acoustically active surfaces. So maybe the apparent reverberation and liveliness of the sound from the headphones is what I should be hearing. With the Sony, I would only hear the reverberation if I turned on the "movie" or "music" setting. Other than this reverberation, which is perhaps something I need to get used to, the Pioneer system seems excellent. Anyone with the Pioneer have any thoughts on the reverberation issue?

According to the advise from a guy from Dolby Lab, DH2 is the best mode and that's what I'm using all the time. DH3 does have too much reverb to simulate a large hall. However, all these effects are highly dependent on actual movie. Some works better with reverb. Some don't.

According to the advise from a guy from Dolby Lab, DH2 is the best mode and that's what I'm using all the time. DH3 does have too much reverb to simulate a large hall. However, all these effects are highly dependent on actual movie. Some works better with reverb. Some don't.

So, do you think the sound from a well encoded Dolby Digital movie sounds correct with DH1 or DH2 from the headphones, and does it sound similar to your speakers?

Thanks.

Never tried DH3 with movies. In DH2, it sounds close to my 6.1 surround system except sound field is narrower. It can't replace a true surround system but is a very good replacement in places you can't setup multi-speaker system like bedroom.

Never tried DH3 with movies. In DH2, it sounds close to my 6.1 surround system except sound field is narrower. It can't replace a true surround system but is a very good replacement in places you can't setup multi-speaker system like bedroom.

OK. So what I'm hearing and interpreting as some reverberation and liveliness with the Pioneer is what you're hearing with the headphones and also from your speakers? Is that a fair statement?

Thanks.

Other than this reverberation, which is perhaps something I need to get used to, the Pioneer system seems excellent. Anyone with the Pioneer have any thoughts on the reverberation issue?As I editorialized in my comments regarding the listening experience with the two Eagles DVD's, I don't believe there is one "best" setting that is "best" for everything. It varies, depending on the size of the sound stage being represented.

In my opinion, for typical TV shows where the distance between sound sources (and you, or the camera/listener) is minimal, DH1 seems to be the most reasonable setting. The virtual sound stage is narrow" and stereo separation is minimal. It has the least reverb effect (if you want to call it that, but I think Dolby would rather you describe it as "injection of spatial cues") of the three choices. But that has the resulting consequence of keeping the sound close around you, the listener. And you are close to the talkers or sound sources.

At the other extreme, DH3 is unusable for the above situations. It's effect is to "inject large spatial cues" (which will be interpreted as excessive reverb in a "small" setting), which is precisely what it is supposed to do when the sound situation is a concert or large enclosed venue with a large wide sound stage. As I mentioned in my comments about the two Eagles concert DVDs, listening to these in DH3 was the ONLY setting that sounded good. The others sound artificially compressed and squeezed, with a very narrow sound source in front of me even though I could clearly see singers and instruments spread all across the stage. Also, the audience around me did not seem like they were in a 15,000 seat venue in DH1 or DH2. Only in DH3 did it all come together properly... with respect to the "spatial cues". In fact, it did not sound like reverb at all. It sounded like open space with natural sounds all around, just like if you were there.

I haven't sampled a source yet where DH2 is appropriate, but I'm sure it's something where the virtual sound stage size is somewhere between intimate and Rod Laver Arena. In fact that's how it's described, as a "wet" room... perhaps a live recording in a club of a jazz band or singer, which because of the instruments and amplifiers is clearly "hotter" and "more alive" than a living room but still relatively small in space terms. Or, maybe it's good for TV shows set outdoors, like "Lost", or similar settings that are wide open and not on a small sound stage.

As far as "off", it's just that. Off. I believe this picks up just the PCM 2-channel L/R stereo program from the digital source. It is not a mix-down of the multitrack content. It's just like playing the L/R analog stereo program through your speakers, except that it's being provided digitally. So naturally there is no reverb or surround effect, other than what would be normally conveyed from ordinary old-fashioned L/R stereo and two speakers.

Again, I don't believe that DH1, DH2, or DH3 is "best". If one is selected (such as DH2) because it seems to sound acceptable in all situations, in my opinion that is a compromise that is actually causing you to lose the maximum listening enjoyment potential for 2 out of 3 cases. It has more "reverb" than DH1 and may really be inappropriate (albeit "acceptable"). And in the large concert situation, DH2 is not providing the large space illusion that DH3 would. Believe me, I did not think of the space illusion "at" the Eagles concert as reverb... it was truly just open space and sounded great.

There's no question that the three DHx settings put you at different virtual distances from the sound source. DH1 has you close up, DH2 is moderately far back (say in the audience at "Leno", maybe?), and DH3 puts you in a large stadium or concert hall. Simply choose your setting so that whatever you're listening to sounds the best... to you. That's the real luxury of headphones.

What's interesting is that you found the Pioneer/Dolby approach to be clearly superior to the Sony and Panasonic version. Also, you didn't make any comment that the volume level provided by the Pioneer headphones was too low or inadequate, suggesting that it was fine in that department. I may have to do a little more experimenting with my DIR-SE1000C headphones just to make sure I'm not overreacting.

I still am going to use my Pioneer->DBX/SRM-T1S pathway to my Stax Omega headphones as my "production" setup, because I can't live without the ability to insert a 14-band EQ as tone control for what I'm listening to... not to mention the added punch of the second amplifier feeding the worldclass Stax wired headphones.

But I'm glad to hear that your reaction to the DIR-SE800 is quite positive. I will let my nephew know, who's also in the market for exactly the same type of solution to his "spouse is sleeping when he wants to watch TV in surround sound" problem.

What's interesting is that you found the Pioneer/Dolby approach to be clearly superior to the Sony and Panasonic version. Also, you didn't make any comment that the volume level provided by the Pioneer headphones was too low or inadequate, suggesting that it was fine in that department. I may have to do a little more experimenting with my DIR-SE1000C headphones just to make sure I'm not overreacting.

I still am going to use my Pioneer->DBX/SRM-T1S pathway to my Stax Omega headphones as my "production" setup, because I can't live without the ability to insert a 14-band EQ as tone control for what I'm listening to... not to mention the added punch of the second amplifier feeding the worldclass Stax wired headphones.

But I'm glad to hear that your reaction to the DIR-SE800 is quite positive. I will let my nephew know, who's also in the market for exactly the same type of solution to his "spouse is sleeping when he wants to watch TV in surround sound" problem.

Thanks for the comments.

I haven't extensively played with the volume control on the Pioneer headphones in terms of max and min, but I certainly had no problem finding various comfortable settings depending upon how loud or soft I wanted to listen to a particular movie. So far, I've only used the Pioneer with movies. I'll try some music this weekend.

It took 10 minutes to easily determine the Sony was better than the Panasonic. It took all of one minute to determine the Pioneer was significantly better than the Sony. I literally started to pack up the Sony for return within minutes of listening to the Pioneer.

Jerry

It took 10 minutes to easily determine the Sony was better than the Panasonic. It took all of one minute to determine the Pioneer was significantly better than the Sony. I literally started to pack up the Sony for return within minutes of listening to the Pioneer.

Jerry

LoL! Glad you liked Pioneer. However, recently I read a review (actually head to head comparison to SE-DIR800c) about Sony's top of the line surround headphone (forgot the exact model number). And that Sony beats Pioneer in every category except for the price ($800 to 1000) according to the reviewer. There is no doubt Pioneer is still the best in its price range and I liked it very much.

LoL! Glad you liked Pioneer. However, recently I read a review (actually head to head comparison to SE-DIR800c) about Sony's top of the line surround headphone (forgot the exact model number). And that Sony beats Pioneer in every category except for the price ($800 to 1000) according to the reviewer. There is no doubt Pioneer is still the best in its price range and I liked it very much.

I also read that the high end Sony is excellent. But I don't feel like paying that much for headphones.

Had an opportunity to finally listen to my recordings of a recent "Lost" and the 2-hour "CSI (original)" finale (from Quentin Tarantino) through my DIR-SE1000C. All I can say is WOW! I've not heard either show in DD5.1 before now. WHAT SOUND!

Listened the entire 3 hours of both shows in DH2. I must say, it was truly superb.

DH3 was definitely wrong this time. DH1 did not really convey any proper feeling of surround, though it wasn't nearly as wrong (in the other direction) as DH3. But there's no question DH2 was the proper mode for the spatial environment represented by these kind of TV dramas. I will leave it here and go to DH1 or DH3 only for the proper special situations.

I also had a chance to watch and listen to the Mets/Marlins game from Shea on INHD last night. Stunning HD and DD5.1 sound. Interestingly, despite the size of the stadium the mike placement seemed to again drive DH2 as the proper setting, which I found surprising.

Actually, I was very bothered when I tried DH3, because the announcer's voices sound totally reverb'ed and unlistenable. Interesting how I did not get that sensation when listening to the Eagles concert in DH3. But whatever tricks they do with announcers, whatever track(s) they're on, DH3 simply cannot be used when there is a narration. Did not notice this on DH2.

Anyway, I continue to love this processor and my DBX/Stax add-on.

What was truly amazing about these headphones, however, was that they were ABSOLUTELY SILENT except if they're on your head! In other words, they're perfect for "bed use" late at night in order not to bother your better half. I mean absolutely silent, even when playing sound and the headphones are on the floor... you can't hear it from the outside. Only when you put it on your head can you hear its great sound output from the inside of the ear pads. Quite remarkable.Well I must confess that this is one of the dumbest most inaccurate statements I've ever made. How embarrassing.

Turns out the reason these headphones are "absolutely silent" when the headphones are on the floor is because they are NOT POWERED ON WHEN THEY'RE LYING ON THE FLOOR!

That's right, they have some kind of gravity-based or tension-based microswitch that turns off the amplifier when they're not on your head. Makes excellent sense, saves battery power, and allows you to take them off and put them on the bed while you make a pit stop and not bother your sleeping partner. They automatically power off (i.e. the little red power LED goes out) when clearly not in use on one's head.

However, they ARE definitely audible from the outside when someone has them on their head and are operating normally (i.e. the little red power LED is on). They are definitly NOT "absolutely silent" at all. Not that they're particularly any more hearable from the outside than any other headphones (other than perhaps the Bose noise-eliminating phones I suppose, which are supposed to be quite silent from the outside from what I hear), but they're certainly not silent as I initially (and foolishly) reported.

And that means your sleeping partner will definitely be listening along to the show you're listening to, if you have the volume in the phones at a decent level for your personal enjoyment.


P.S. - any more feedback on the DIR-800C phones? DH1 vs. DH2 vs. DH3 vs. OFF, based on content?

On my DIR-SE800c, which is for bedroom use only, once I put it on, its very quite from outside. The can is close air design and suppose to be quite from outside if it is sealed properly on the head. And it sealed pretty good. My wife never had trouble with the noise level.

DH1, DH2 and DH3 behave the same as you described above. I'm too lazy to switch frequently and leave in DH2 most of the time. Only thing I wish it has is analog 5.1 input so that I can listen to my DVD-Audio and SACD discs:D

Foxbat121,

So overall you're happy with the DIR-SE800C? Now that you've had a few weeks to get used to them, what is your overall review?

I brought my DIR-SE1000C over to a friend's and she wants one, but the somewhat less expensive 800C version. We're not talking much of a dollar difference though, really.

I don't know how the headphones on the 800C compare to those of the 1000C soundwise, which it seems would be the only real choice criteria. Otherwise the electronics specs are pretty much the same. And one has a "horizontal" look while the other has a "vertical" look.

Of course she's not going to have a DBX/Stax wired path like I use. She'll be using the wireless headphones as-is.

Where did you buy yours? From an American seller? The only source I can find here in the US is Home Shopping Network for $349, plus $25 tax and $8 shipping. From AudioCubes in Japan it's $399 plus $25 shipping.

But the AudioCubes item includes a free voltage transformer ($30 value) which the HSN does not mention. If this is a Japanese product, wouldn't it require a voltage transformer as I needed for my 1000C? Did yours come with one, or is it made for an American 120v source?

Thoughts?

P.S. - I saw a reference to the Audio-Technica ATH-DCL3000 ($949) available from AudioCubes but it doesn't provide Dolby Headphone, although it does "support" Dolby Digital, etc. Same with AKG Hearo 999 Audiosphere II ($889). Both seem like superb wireless headphones that support Dolby Digital audio input, but neither provides DH (at least they don't describe it that way). Obviously both are VERY pricy. I also saw some other comments on Phillips SBC-HD1500 which supposedly sounds better than the Pioneer headphones, but it didn't have an optical input... only coax. Also, it doesn't seem to be available in the US.

I had my SE800c for more than half years now and I'm very pleased with this purchase. Pioneer officially released DIR-SE800c in US. You can find it in a lot of online electronics retailers. And I paid about $250 for it.

How would something like a good pair of Sennheisers (HD600 or so) along with Dolby Headphone compare to the Pioneer DIR-SE800c? Has anyone used a receiver with the Dolby Headphone option?

How would something like a good pair of Sennheisers (HD600 or so) along with Dolby Headphone compare to the Pioneer DIR-SE800c? Has anyone used a receiver with the Dolby Headphone option?Can't speak from firsthand experience about Sennheiser headphones. But I have read some reviews that say they do require a bit more power to drive than say high-efficiency Grado headphones, but to be honest I haven't heard or tried them either.

I've only tried my own Sony MDR-V900 as wired headphones plugged directly into the headphone jack of my DIR-SE1000C (which I assume is probably the same amp as is in the DIR-SE800C). And my opinion is that the MDR-V900 are also too low efficiency a set of phones for the pretty weak headphone amp in the Pioneer base unit. The resulting sound quality was fairly poor. Compared to the wireless Pioneer headphones, I preferred the Pioneer. Of the two.

But to be honest I didn't buy my DIR-SE1000C to use the wireless headphones (although I certainly was curious to hear how they sounded). There's just not enough oomph for me out of these phones. The amp in the headphones is not strong enough for my liking.

No, I bought the DIR-SE1000C (or DIR-SE800C) strictly for the base unit electronics, to be able to accept multi-track Dolby Digital / DTS audio input and process it through Dolby Headphone DH1/DH2/DH3/OFF, delivering it from its output headphone jack as L/R line-input to my own secondary headphone amp (and EQ for tone control) and my own wired headphones. And THIS arrangement is spectacular.

So, although I can't speak to other equipment, what I've tried personally suggests that if you really want top quality sound you should definitely go with an external headphone amp (fed via line input from the headphone jack output of the Pioneer base unit) and wired headphones connected to that external headphone amp. I've added a 14-band EQ into that path for tone control because I could, and if you can I'd recommend that option as well.

Bottom line: for my money the Pioneer wireless headphones are ok, but not fabulous. However if you use your own high-quality wired headphones you'll get your money's worth out of the Pioneer base unit electronics, although unless the headphones are very high efficiency you'll be disappointed with the low power output from the headphone jack amp. So if you add an external headphone amp with those wired headphones, you'll REALLY enjoy your headphones and the Dolby Headphone effect from the Pioneer base unit. And if you can add some sort of tone control (e.g. EQ, or at the very least bass/treble), you've reached the best.

Grado headphones and amp? Sennheiser headphones and amp? Stax headphones and amp? I say go with an external headphone amp if you're going to use your own wired headphones. But you might just try out the Pioneer wireless phones first, to see if they satisfy you or not and to get a frame of reference. Even if you don't ever use their headphones again but only use the base unit electronics, you still need to buy the product and the headphones come along for the ride. Right?

Here's a review of Grado vs. Sennheiser from 1999, including the HD600. I'm sure there are other similar and more contemporary reviews available, but the fact that the HD600 clearly needs a big external headphone amp is made quite plainly. Also, in another review (on the same site) the author clearly prefers the sound of any of the Grado products (RS-1, RS-2, SR325) to the HD600.

BigHeadphone review from GoodCans.com (http://www.goodcans.com/HeadphoneReviews/bigreview.htm)

Well, my friend received her DIR-SE800C the other day and I went over to hook it up for her, connecting it via coax to her SA8300HD and via optical to her DVD player. That's the one advantage it has over the DIR-SE1000C, which only has a single optical input (although this isn't a problem for me, as I have a Zektor switch to handle my multiple A/V input needs).

I brought my headphones from the DIR-SE1000C, so that I could listen to both from her DIR-SE800C base unit, in a real A/B comparison. I must say that in my opinion the phones with the DIR-SE1000C are significantly better sounding. The DIR-SE800C phones are smaller, with less air in the smaller cup space around the air... producing, in my opinion, a much smaller confined sound that has much less "life" and clarity, not to mention sheer volume. I much prefer the sound of the DIR-SE1000C phones.

The ear pads of the DIR-SE800C phones fit tighter around the ear making for almost no outside sound creeping in. This is certainly not the case with the DIR-SE1000C phones, which have a different open-air design. But all things considered the DIR-SE1000C phones are more comfortable and produce a "bigger" sound, much more to my liking.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I left my phones with her because I don't use them anyway (since I use my wired Stax phones and Stax headphone amp and DBX EQ, connected to the DIR-SE1000C base unit). She will use them instead of the phones that came with the DIR-SE800C, but she's still happy with the purchase.

I also need a solution for late nite theater listening.

I have been researching using headphones for home theater for almost a month now. The major dilemma is finding retail outlets in Atlanta that carry any dolby headphones. I got lucky and found one set of Sony MDR-DS3000 at Fry's. I payed under 200 bucks for them. I have 2 weeks to decide if I want to keep them, here are my opinions so far.

Things I am happy with.

1. Price
2. good sound (bass could be a little deeper).
3. Surround effects (very convincing)
4. Detail (hearing more details and subtle effects than on 5.1 spkrs)

Things that I am not happy with.

1. very low hiss when movie soundtrack is quiet or low.
2. Center channel effect sucks. I woulkd of thought this would anchor me to the screen, it didnt.

After reading this thread and a few at head hi-fi it appears other people are of the same opinion.

I have some questions for Jerry G. since he has done alot of beneficial testing already. First let me say that I have downloaded the manuals for the Sony MDR-DS3000, MDR-DS4000, and the Pioneer SE-DIR8000.

As far as I can tell Jerry the only difference between my 3000s and the 4000s you tested and returned is that the 4000s have a digital infra red transmitter vs the 3000s analog. And the 4000s have an optical output jack.

Do the 4000s have the low volume hiss that I mentioned?
How was the center channel sound re-prodution, was it convicing to you.

From your postings it sounds like the Pioneers blew away the Sony.

Is there any hiss from the 800s?

Center channel re-prodution is key for me. How much better is it on the Pioneer.

Your Sony is not a Dolby Headphone. The only one from Sony that worth considering is the top of line DS8000 (if I remembered correctly).

There is little or no hiss in Pioneer phones as they use digital infrared as well IIRC.

Thanks, I understand it is some type of proprietary thing on sonys part. I think i will return the sonys and get the pioneers i need to convince the wife the extra 100 dollars wish me luck...

I know, to each his own. But having now listened to both Pioneer headphones I will say that the version which comes with the DIR-SE1000C is more to my liking than the ones that come with the DIR-SE800C. Yes, there's more than $100 difference in price, but having heard both I would recommend the DIR-SE1000C if concern for sound quality is uppermost.

Also, I found the DIR-SE1000C phones to be larger and a bit looser on the head (and therefore more comfortable to me than the DIR-SE800C phones which are quite snug).

And the size of the ear cup cavity is larger, giving the resulting sound a larger volume feel, and also definitely superior bass.

Of course I personally don't use either phones... I only use the DIR-SE1000C electronics unit and my own Stax wired headphones. But if I were asked to make a recommendation based on the a plan to actually use the Pioneer phones, I'd go with the more expensive version.

I know, to each his own.

I cannot justify the price difference the most I can spend is 300 bucks.

The dilemma

Keep the MDR-DS3000 and deal with the hiss and lack of center fullfillment. (unlikely)

Go for the MDR-DS4000 and get rid of the hiss and still deal with the center loss.
(possibly)

Go for the Pioneer SE-DIR800C and have no hiss with the added use of Dolby headphone which has better center simulation. (most likely)

One more question for Jerry G if you are listening.

which had better bass reponse the Sony or Pioneer.

DSperber thanks for the reply...

You can PM Jerry G. I don't think he is monitoring this thread any more.

For those who missed out on the DIR-SE1000C (it's no longer available from Pioneer, and AudioCubes has no more for sale), and who want a better headphone than was provided with the DIR-SE800C, a new model is going to be available very shortly: DIR-SE2000C.

I'm guessing it will be available in the US as well as Japan, but don't know yet. It will be available through the AudioCubes web site regardless. They're a Boston-based company with warehouse in Osaka, and I bought my DIR-SE1000C through them.

The announcement is only in Japanese, but Google can translate it (into roughly readable English):

Google-translation of the Pioneer DIR-SE2000C announcement (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://joshinweb.jp/servlet/emall.odr_wp%3FSHP%3D2%26ACK%3DREP%26CKV%3D050711%26PID%3DSE DIR2000C&prev=/search%3Fq%3Ddir-se2000c%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2004-50,GGLD:en)

Looks like the price on this page is 44,500 yen, which converts to $396 USD, for "members". Otherwise, 46,800 yen which is $417 USD. I don't know what the realworld price will be over here, from AudioCubes or other etailers. Stock shows 0 items, so I guess it hasn't actually been made available for sale yet.

The 2000C seems to have improvements on the best features of both the 1000C and 800C. Much improved headphones; vertical orientation with headphone hook; two optical digital audio input and one coaxial digital audio input; one L/R analog audio input; looks like both 1/4" and 1/8" output headphone jacks for wired headphones; built-in headphone battery charger via cable to headphones from base unit; large legible white lettering on the front, with no more dark smoked plastic cover over the LED's and lettering.

Otherwise, the basic electronics seem at least the same as with the 1000C: DH1/DH2/DH3/OFF, Dolby ProLogic II, etc. The detailed specs are not on this page but it seems from the wording that it also supports DTS and AAC.

I just ordered an 800C for my mother, but if the 2000C is available soon I will return the 800C and buy the 2000C instead. I will probably keep the 2000C for myself and give her my 1000C.

Two things I'd like to see happen:

(1) remote control to switching inputs and DH modes

(2) analog 5.1 input so that I can enjoy DVD-A/SACD hi-res audio via the headphone.

I'd like to see a digital output that can be connected to an external DAC and amp. Currently there is just an analog output.

Forgot to mention both of these items on your wish lists:

(1) there IS a remote control now, and

(2) either of the two optical inputs can be used as an optical output as well, so you can route the optical digital data from the source THROUGH the base unit and on to your receiver for real loudspeakers.

Seems Pioneer was listening to user's requestes.

(2) analog 5.1 input so that I can enjoy DVD-A/SACD hi-res audio via the headphone.This is a very expensive feature I would think.

I'm waiting until hopefully later this year when the SVS ("Smyth Virtual Surround") processor (which I've described previously) becomes available. Discrete decoded analog 5.1 input is the method being implemented on this box, so I've been told.

But remember that this SVS box is a "virtual surround" processor + headphone preamp, intended to feed high-quality wired headphones connected through a headphone amp connected to the line-level outputs of the SVS box. At least that's how it's currently planned right now, while the project is still in the idea-stage.

I'm waiting until hopefully later this year when the SVS ("Smyth Virtual Surround") processor (which I've described previously) becomes available.Oops... I did not describe the SVS technology in this forum. It was on a headphone forum (HEADWIZE) where I posted my description.

So, to be fair, here's what's coming. If you have access to the September 2004 (issue #88) edition of Widescreen Review online or in paper, there was an amazing article on this technology and an interview with Steve Smyth.

Here is the future (and it is NOT Dolby Headphone!).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the man who created the DTS codec used for film in theaters (generally considered superior to Dolby Digital), Steven Smyth, comes a new virtual surround technology similar to (in idea, but radically different in approach and result from) Dolby Headphone.

Again the idea is to mix down multi-track source input to two-track output for headphones. Like with the Pioneer DIR-SE1000C unit I own where I only use the base unit electronics and not the included wireless headphones, it is meant to be positioned on the source side of a wired L/R 2-channel stereo output path to high-quality headphones (involving probably an EQ, external headphone amp, and "cans").

However unlike with the Pioneer DIR-SE1000C approach which gets its non-decoded multi-track digital audio input stream via optical (Toslink) or coaxial, the SVS processor box receives already decoded 5.1 (or more) multi-track input from a separate receiver/processor that performs the decode/processing functions and then delivers each now-decoded discrete channel of the multi-track original source over a discrete analog connector path. I don't know if this will be balanced XLR or unbalanced RCA, but it is definitely each channel delivered over a unique analog path.

In other words, instead of decoding and mixing down the multi-track original digital source within the SVS box, it leaves the decoding task to a separate receiver and simply accepts the decoded separate tracks discretely. Apparently, new DVD players today already provide this form of decoded discrete output although I can't confirm firsthand (not owning such equipment).

Not including any decoding/processing in an SVS product avoids their having to pay lots of licensing fees and royalties to Dolby, DTS, etc. Also, it leaves the SVS product to focus entirely on its sole purpose: create a virtual surround environment through headphones that is IDENTICAL to what would be experienced when listening to the same content via loudspeakers.

Part of the technology is not only the processing gox itself, but also a unique head-tilt sensor that mounts on the top of your headphone band and which senses the position of your head. If you move your head, the sensor notifies the processor which compensates mathematically for the new positions of your ears such that the center of the virtual sound stage/source is always locked. You will be provided a new modified virtual surround stream which makes your brain realize you've turned your head but the sound source remained stationary. Again, the idea is to reproduce the experience of stationary loudspeakers but through headphones which map virtual locations of those virtual loudspeakers via the stream sent to your two ears and processed by your brain.

Another part of the technology is that the pre-setup for you, the unique listener, is to have your ear canal "measured", etc. The claim is that this is similar to going to get a pair of eyeglasses where each human is different. You go through the process with the eye technician of finding out exactly what lens specifications are right for your eyes, and then that's it. You have your glasses made... and they are optimal, for you. Well in a similar fashion, the mathematics of the SVS processing is "tuned" to your own personal hearing physics. Once it is tuned, you're good to go with optimal auditory results out of the mathematics and algorithms. Really!

Today I had a long conversation with a Steven Cheung, who's chief engineer with Smyth's research company out here just a bit north of LA. It was very stimulating. He's intimately familiar with all headphone-related equipment (e.g. Stax products), as well as other signal processing products that tried to perform virtual surround functions (e.g. my Carver C-9 Sonic Hologram Generator, a 1980's-era first-generation 3D-sound illusion creator from two ordinary loudspeakers in a room).

They also have a Pioneer DIR-SE800C unit, but he's quite negative on Dolby Headphone. He says "it doesn't work", in that he feels there's no accurate sensation of front/rear distance to the sound sources, angles from the sound sources, etc. He says with SVS you actually think you're listening to external speakers all around you. You know exactly where the virtual speakers are because the processed sound you're hearing has the same result out of your brain as real loudspeakers would.

Unfortunately... there is no actual product you can buy as of yet. They're apparently involved with licensing the technology to other manufacturers for inclusion in their products (yet to materialize), and also in development of their own standalone processor box (like my Pioneer unit) which might actually be ready by the end of the year. We'll see. He thinks the price point is under $3000.

But again, it is not fed from the non-decoded multi-track digital source through the usual single digital audio cable (optical or coax) from a DVD player, HDTV receiver or STB or DVR, D-VHS VCR, cable box, satellite receiver, etc., apparently because they don't want to get involved licensing Dolby and DTS. So you will [likely] require a separate receiver/processor that can deliver the multi-track source discretely across multiple connection paths to the SVS box... as I'm told many new high-end receivers and devices already do.

I've suggested that by not including a Dolby/DTS/PLII decoder in the SVS product he is eliminating a large potential marketplace of customers who have "ordinary" audio/video or HDTV equipment of today which includes optical/coax digital audio output of the non-decoded multi-track audio intended to go to a receiver, and which instead could go to an SVS processor box and on to headphones. Not supporting this option (as a way of avoiding licensing fees) but instead requiring special high-end analog receiver connections that provide discrete multi-track connection paths really limits the potential marketplace, I would think. He understood, but said the initial plans are not for a "consumer level" optical/coax digital interface that supplies a multi-track decoder in the SVS box.

------------------------------------------------------

If anybody wants to read the PDF article from September 2004 WSR, PM me with your email address and I'll send it to you. I've bought a 1-year subscription just to get this article (which I really shouldn't be shariing...).

This is a very expensive feature I would think.



Only thing it needs is A/D conversion. Many low end receivers have this and yet stays in $200 price range.

Pollock,

Haven't been monitoring this thread for a while.

I don't recall any hiss with the Sony 4000.

I can't specifically recall the center channel reproduction from the Sony. I don't think it was too bad, but the Pioneer 800 really had much better overall spatiality and localization. There were a few times that I thought I was hearing sound from the from right or left speaker instead of the headphones. Upon removing the headphones, the speakers were indeed muted and the sound really did come from the headphones. Being fooled that way really convinced me that the Pioneer was significantly better than the Sony 4000. The center channel localization is very good on the Pioneer.

No hiss at all from the Pioneer 800.

I'll try to remember to check this thread again later in the week.

P.S. Figures that as soon as I get the 800, another model will come out. Oh well. I'm really happy with the 800 and highly doubt I'll investigate the 2000.

(2) either of the two optical inputs can be used as an optical output as well, so you can route the optical digital data from the source THROUGH the base unit and on to your receiver for real loudspeakers.
I'd like to see a digital output of the 2-channel Dolby Headphone signal that is created by the processor. That's what I meant.

I'll try to remember to check this thread again later in the week.Just as a suggestion if you're not familiar with a wonderful forum feature... why not "subscribe" to this thread and let the forum mechanics keep you advised of any thread activity? That way you never have to remember to look for it yourself manually. The forum mechanism itself remembers when you look at a subscribed thread's contents, and therefore also knows when new items have been posted since the last time you looked... and can advise you of this automatically.

At the time you "subscribe" to the thread you choose whether you want to be notified by email or not when any new item gets posted to the thread. I personally choose NOT to be notified by email in my subscriptions since I don't want to be bothered so urgently. Rather I just want to know whenever I start an AVS browsing session which of my subscribed threads has had recent unread activity. This is exactly what "subscription" to a thread means.

Then, regardless of the email notification option, when you get to AVS and push the "User CP" button what you will be presented with is a list of all threads to which you're subscribed and which have had "new" activity since the last time you looked. You're also shown a list of all of the forums you've similarly "subscribed" to. This is a wonderful feature.

I have the URL for "AVS User CP" itself as an IE "favorite", so that I automatically go directly to User CP when I click on it, as my method of starting my AVS browsing. Then any subscribed threads which have had new activity since the last time I browsed are shown immediately and automatically when I arrive, right at the top of the page. No need for me to go searching myself for these threads.

If there has been no activity, User CP says "no activity". Otherwise, for subscribed threads in which there has been new activity direct links are available to click on (for each such thread) so that you can instantly go to the "first unread new item" for that thread.

What could be more convenient? Let the forum itself keep track of your thread interests and when you last visited and browsed that thread.

Thanks for the info Jerry. I will buy the Pioneer 8000 series, I returned the sonys.

Thanks for the info Jerry. I will buy the Pioneer 8000 series, I returned the sonys.

You're quite welcome. But you might want to get the 800 instead of the 8000, which won't be released until about 2010. ;)

I just cancelled my Sunday order for a DIR-SE800C that was to be a gift for my mother, and placed a new order (with AudioCubes) for the brand new DIR-SE2000C.

I should have it by early next week at the latest and will report on the new headphones it comes with. These promise to be superior to either the 800C or 1000C phones. And the batteries are nickel hydrogen that claims 20 hours of use before requiring recharge.

Also, I will much appreciate the new remote control.

Yes, there's quite a price differential, as these cost $469 vs. $315 (SE800C). But I think the new features and appearance and headphones make it worth the price.

Please let us know Dsperber. I am now sitting on the fence. I may be able to jstify it the wife the extrra expense. I guess it could be my Christmas/birthday/fathers day/anniversery gift.

Well, the early returns are in... and I'm returning it! Very unhappy with the wired headphone amplifier in the 2000C, which is MUCH WEAKER than that which is in the 1000C or even the 800C. And it also seemingly has poorer audio quality, but that may be tied to the psychological effect of the lower output volume.

I haven't listened to the wireless headphones yet (the batteries are still charging), and I plan to before returning it. But that wasn't how I planned to use the thing anyway. I was going to use it like I use my 1000C, with my Stax headphone amp and wired headphones. And the wired headphone path in this 2000C (starting at the internal amplifier for the headphone jack) is simply no good. Very surprising actually, that Pioneer would use a cheaper weaker amplifier in this new more expensive improved product than it had previously used in earlier less expensive products, but that's what it looks like happened.

As evidence that Pioneer knew something was not right, they now have a "bass boost" button, with three settings (plus off). To me that's actually a bad sign, although I certainly felt the 1000C phones could use some bass help. In theory, this could be a good thing. But as implemented, it just muddies the sound especially in the third position. It's really not very high quality electronics.

Electronically and cosmetically, by design at least, the 2000C is a definite step forward. Two optical inputs, one [separate] optical output, one coax input, one L/R analog input. No charging cable anymore, rather the headphones sit on a permanently attached hook on the top of the base unit which has two charging prongs that fit into matching charging pinholes in a plastic piece on the underside of the headband. The digital processor now supports Dolby Digital, DTS-ES, MPEG2-AAC, Dolby Pro Logic II, and Dolby Surround. There's a little thin remote control. The volume control on the wireless headphones now is a rotating knob which is much easier to locate and use (but I still don't know yet how loud they actually are).

On the downside, the headphone jack volume control has been changed from a rotating knob with a clear indicator showing minimum to maximum to two UP/DOWN push buttons. There is no displayed volume control number or readout or anything, and therefore you have no idea where you are relative to the maximum output of the amp... other than to listen to the volume through your wired headphones until you're satisifed (or, in my case, NOT!). Even at max I wanted it much louder.

Again, the product arrived from Japan (only $7.50 shipping via EMS, delivered by USPS) within about 6 days of placing the order. As before, instruction manual is essentially all in Japanese. Included by the retailer for free was a $30 voltage converter so that the made-for-Japan product could be used in the US.


So, although I will probably report on the wireless headphones tomorrow after they finish charging, I've already requested an RMA to return the product to the seller... much to my disappointment. It goes back tomorrow.

Since the 1000C is officially history, I will have to buy an 800C for my mother, to use in conjunction with my old "spare" Stax SRM-1 wired headphone amp and "spare" Stax Lambda Signature wired headphones. This combination will be just fine for her.

Typical manufacturing cycle. First generation, put best stuff out there and hope it works. Second generation, let's cut some corners to reduce costs. Third generation, let's cut some more corners and add some useless features so that ppl still think it's worth the money. :D

The two batteries were AA-size Ni-MH. When the headphones are placed on the charging prongs a red LED goes on. It goes off about 10 hours later, presumably after the batteries are charged. As always, remove the headphones and replace them back on the prongs, and the LED goes on for another 10 hours... regardless of battery charge.

I remember I had a cell phone charger once (for an Audiovox phone) that actually had a light that actually sensed battery charge (like any battery tester would) and went from red to green when the phone's battery was charged. How much extra could that possibly cost to build into today's charging devices? Oh well. Not important, really.

The downside of the charging prong approach is that there's no charging cable (as there is for the 1000C). So you can't listen to the phones while plugged into the charger (assuming the base unit is close enough to where you're sitting, to even make this option possible). You can only listen wirelessly, which is also how the 800C headphones work.

The phones with the 2000C are very similar to those of the 1000C, but better built actually and more comfortable. They also seem to have a bit thicker padding around the ear cavity, and also seems to have a bit larger air volume around the ears than those of the 1000C. So the sound is actually quite good. Both the 1000C and 2000C phones are much better than the 800C phones, in my opinion.

The larger rotating volume control on the side of the 2000C phones is an improvement over the imbedded rotating volume control on the 1000C. And it does seem to have a little more volume out of it's amp than was available with the 1000C phones. This is good.

However I still don't like the sound quality, neither when using my wired Stax headphones nor when using the Pioneer wireless headphones. It's just too "thin", and adding in bass with the new "bass boost" doesn't add quality... it just adds a bit of boominess, especially in the third position.

I really think they erred here in going with a new D/A converter in the base unit which has (in my opinion) much poorer audio quality than the previous D/A+amp did, and which includes the 3-position bass boost (to make up for missing bass in the amp) and a new 2-button UP/DOWN volume control that does not indicate absolute minimum or maximum nor give you any idea where you're currently sitting. And this noticeably poorer audio quality is detectable in both the wireless and wired headphone paths.

Anyway, I've spoken my piece. I'm still sending these back tomorrow for return (minus 15% restocking charge, unfortunately).

Too bad. They seemed promising on paper.

The two batteries were AA-size Ni-MH. When the headphones are placed on the charging prongs a red LED goes on. It goes off about 10 hours later, presumably after the batteries are charged. As always, remove the headphones and replace them back on the prongs, and the LED goes on for another 10 hours... regardless of battery charge.

I remember I had a cell phone charger once (for an Audiovox phone) that actually had a light that actually sensed battery charge (like any battery tester would) and went from red to green when the phone's battery was charged. How much extra could that possibly cost to build into today's charging devices? Oh well. Not important, really.

Most cell phones are using Li-ion battery which can tell you exactly how much charge is in the battery. It is very important to Li-ion battery because over charge is very dangerous (explosions). Ni-Ca and Ni-MH batteries don't have this capability. The chargers are usually very simple and charge at a fixed period. The batteries come with my 800c are only rated 1600mAH while most of the AA Ni-MH batteries out there are 2300mAH to 2500mAH. And a faster Ni-MH chargers are around $10 to $30 that charges these batteries from 15 minutes to 90 minutes depending on the model.

I was really crazed when I heard about these Pioneer Headphones

I posted my question in another thread but I got no answer so Ill post here.

Can a 5.1 signal be sent through all 3 inputs? Does 5.1 only go through optical?

And also can I run a RCA stereo cable from my mobo(which has onboard 7.1) to the dedicated amp to get 5.1 in games like Doom 3?

Which decoding software is needed to play PC games in surround sound?

thanks

I was really crazed when I heard about these Pioneer HeadphonesYou need to be more specific since three different versions of the Pioneer headphones have been discussed in this thread. Are you talking about (a) the DIR-SE1000C (which started the thread but which is no longer available either here in the US or in Japan), or (b) the DIR-SE800C (which is still available), or (c) the DIR-SE2000C (which has recently been made available and which seemed like a terrific advance on paper, but which I feel has an inferior amplifier for wired external headphones which is how I use the device)?

Can a 5.1 signal be sent through all 3 inputs? Does 5.1 only go through optical?Since the 1000C only has 2 inputs, I'll assume you're talking about the 800C or 2000C, both of which have three types input supporting (a) digital optical (the 2000C has two multi-function of these where one can be used as output for "relay"), as well as (b) digital coax, as well as (c) analog coax (i.e. RCA L/R stereo) inputs. The answer is that DD5.1 input is only supported on the digital inputs to the Pioneer units... coax or optical. The analog RCA L/R stereo input supports only analog L/R stereo input.

And also can I run a RCA stereo cable from my mobo(which has onboard 7.1) to the dedicated amp to get 5.1 in games like Doom 3?You're being vague here (e.g. what does a 2-channel analog L/R stereo cable have to do with 7.1 or 5.1 digital, or are you asking about using an ordinary RCA stereo cable as the physical wire for digital coax connection out from your mobo to the digital coax input of the Pioneers, or are you asking about connecting a 7.1 digital source to the Pioneers which support 5.1 digital input?). Are you calling the Pioneer units a "dedicated amp"? Or are you asking about a separate 7.1 receiver/amp (which seems completely unrelated to questions about the Pioneer headphone units)? Or are you asking about using decoding software (e.g. Dolby Heaphone) in your PC itself, to put out analog L/R stereo output intended for headphones?

Anyway, I'm not a gamer and don't have a motherboard or soundcard that can put out discrete analog outputs to connect to a "modern" receiver/amplifier to support 7.1 sound out of a large number of physical speakers... assuming the source is encoded in 7.1.

But the Pioneer units are not "dedicated amps". They are more like special purpose preamp/mixers, expected to be fed by a non-decoded DD5.1 digital source. They, in turn, decode the DD5.1 digital source and mix down the six channels into two output L/R channels intended for feeding to a 2-channel L/R headphone, in such a way that when you listen through those headphones it has a 3-dimensional sensation theoretically similar to how the DD5.1 signal might sound if connected to true physical speakers through a DD5.1 receiver/amplifier. The headphones can either be (a) Pioneer digital wireless (with L/R amplifiers in the headphones) which are supported by the Pioneer units, or (b) external wired (with a small L/R amplifier and volume control in the Pioneer unit) connected through an output headphone jack on the Pioneer unit. If external wired headphones are used, it will sound even better if you have an external headphone amp between the Pioneer headphone jack and the external wired headphones since the Pioneer amp is relatively weak.

Which decoding software is needed to play PC games in surround sound?Still unclear on your physical configuration idea. I know CinePlayer 1.5 supported Dolby Headphone decoding intended for soundcard output to headphones, but it's not a game. I know WinDVD supports Dolby Headphone decoding intended for soundcard output to headphones, but it too is not a game. I really don't understand your question here.

There is no way you can play your games in 5.1 mode on this headphone as Pioneer and most other similar products do not take analog 5.1 input. Your only hope is to find an old nForce2 mobo with SoundStorm chip in it that can encode any 5.1 audio (games included) into DD5.1 in real-time. Then you can pass the encoded DD5.1 digital signal to Pioneer. That's the only real time DD5.1 encoding solution I know of for PCs. Unfortunately, nVidia discontinued SoundStorm chipset for newer chipsets.

I'm pretty sure you guys are aware of this, but you can use the separate phones on either emitters. So if you like the 2000 headsets but not the receiver amp, you can have your cake and eat it too.

So a solution would be to buy the se-dir2000 headsets for the 800C receiver.

Or better yet get the Audio-Technica ATH-DCL3000R Dolby Digital Wireless Headphones for ~300$ and use them on the 800C receiver (apparently a popular option on head-fi) instead of the whole ATH-DCL3000 set for some 900 smackeroos.

I have the 800C myself and really like them. They suit my need better than the 1000C since they're closed.

I'm actually interested in getting an extra headphone set. I might go for those Audio-Technicas....

I am looking for a wireless hi qual headphone. ONe criteria is that I can have it on and my bed partner can sleep or read, which I guess means a closed headphone. I looked online at the Pioheers and the Audiotechnica but they are all open. That has led me to the good but stereo only Amphony 2500. Can those of you who are using them confirm for me that I do indeed need a closed system and can you recommend any good ones Thanks.

DIR-SE800c is closed not open. And it is very quiet externally because I used it almost every night. DIR-SE1000, from what posted here, is open.

I bought my Pioneer SE-DIR800C about a year ago for ~$260. Brand new, sealed in the box. I mainly use them for console gaming. Although the bass is lacking, I love them. I didn't have the will or the type of room that would allow me to setup a true 5.1 system so Pioneer's 5.1 headphone system was the way to go for me.

I can't find the Sony 4000's anywhere online available. So I'm back to square one. I have an onlder 5.1 DD/DTS Sony Reciever (Coaxial and Optical). I'm really looking for watching TV or DVD's late at night and also play Xbox 360 late at night.

The Pineer's seems interesting....is this still the one to get?

I have a pioneer 800 system, thinking of adding one more headphone. Can I just buy the 2000c headphone and work with the 800 base system.
My other option is to have a new pioneer 2000 base system at my other room. Can I then use the pioneer 800C headphone with my wife based on the new pioneer 2000 base unit? :)

I have a pioneer 800 system, thinking of adding one more headphone. Can I just buy the 2000c headphone and work with the 800 base system.)To the best of my knowledge all of the Pioneer wireless headphones that come with these three base stations are usable with all three base stations.

Best you email or phone your potential vendor first to ask, and be sure you can return them (without restocking charge, hopefully, but if opened maybe not) if they do not perform as advertised.

I do know for an absolute fact that the 1000C headphones will absolutely work with the 800C base station as well, which is why I make the above generalization about all three of them being interchangeable.

I just purchased 2000 and just listened to music with both 800 and 2000 base units and headphones. I have yet to try watching movie with surround sound.

I have to report that both headphones could be used for both base units. Thus I have a surround headphone system both in my living room and in my bedroom.

I found the 2000 unit's sound a little bit stronger than the 800, irrespective of the base units. Otherwise, quality of sound are nearly the same. Other than the improved versatility of the new base units, the 2000 has little edge in sound quality. However, the noise of 800 headphone on head turning is absent in the 2000 headphone.

Both headphones are comfortable. Surprsingly the 2000 headphone is not as heavy as it looks.

In short, I think 800 is a good bargain. Now the price in Hong Kong is less around 300 US. 2000 on the other hand, is 400 US. I think I paid the extra money for the improved connectivity: especially for the optical out and for listening to strong base units. I agreed that the base boose is useless though.

I demoed the Pioneer system, and while it sounds great, the demo was a little frustrating in that the base unit and the phones have to be set up just right in line-of-sight of one another in order to transmit sound. The guy at the store put the base unit on the floor in front of the TV and the headphones did not have sound if I stood up, only if I squatted down. It improved if I placed the base unit on top of the TV, but then if I squatted down the sound went away again. Probably not a huge problem for someone owning one of these units...once you get it setup you're probably ok. Just something to be aware of if you move around at all while using these. Good thing though is there is no static really...the signal is either transmitted or not, so I'd guess there is some sort of digital transmission going to the phones. These were a real pleasure!

Another option for those of you interested in experiencing Dolby Headphone in a wired set-up (and for a lot less cheese, MSRP $129) is the JVC SU-DH1 (http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027291&pathId=135&page=1). [link] (http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027291&pathId=135&page=1) I have one of these along with a pair of good headphones and could not be happier with the sound. To my ears this setup sounds quite a bit better than the Pioneer system. (Though not really a fair comparison as my setup is wired.) I really like the fact that I can use any set of headphones I want with the JVC unit, and that the headphones aren't tied to the base unit like they are with the Pioneer setup.

I think it's been said before, but might be worth repeating. Dolby Headphone requires nothing out of the ordinary as far as headphones go. It works with headphones have two drivers - one left and one right - not some crazy headphones with a gazillion drivers in the headphones themselves. The Dolby Headphone is all about taking the surround sound signals and fooling our ears into thinking the sound is coming from all around us. It also does the job of crossfeeding the sound from our left ear to our right ear to simulate the sound reverberating around the room like a surround sound speaker set-up does. And it does it very very well!

This thread seems to need an update. I recently bought the newly released Dolby Digital certified 5.1 audio headset Tritton AX360 (Audio Extreme 360) primarily for gaming use with Xbox 360. I've come to realize that I need an extra set of surround headphones specifically for use with my upcoming standalone DVD player Pioneer DV-696-S (HDMI) so I finally can enjoy DTS! At my place I just haven't got enough space for a real surround system.

Until I read this thread I was almost ready to get the Pioneer SE-DHP2000 for $449 from AudioCubes. Then I was suddenly in doubt because DSperber gave it up so easily and returned it. I also belong to the consumer segment of "hard to satisfy geeks" but I think some of us have different needs and expectations and I will probably only use it for movies ;)

Then I stumbled over the Panasonic RP-WH7000 which isn't mentioned in this forum and I'm having a hard time finding any reviews.

Has anyone of you tried the Panasonic RP-WH7000?

Features:


Specifications

Digital infrared ray transmission
Infrared ray carry-over factor: Front approximately 10m
Transmission zone: 10 - 24,000 Hz
Decoder Function: Dolby Digital and Dolby Professional Logic II, DTS and MPEG-2 AAC
Sound Function: OFF/CINEMA/MUSIC/VOICE
Modulation Technique: Direct PCM system
Sub-carrier Frequency: 3.75 MHz
Audio Input: Optical Digital Input (angular type) x 2
Analog Input (the pin-jack left/the right) x 1
Voice Response: Optical Digital Through Output (angular type) x 1
Headphone Output: Stereo (M3 jack) x1 system
Power Source: DC 6 V (AC adapter)
Size: W203 x H141 x D164 mm
Weight: 375g

Headphones

Type: Open Air Type
Use unit: 50 mm
Playback frequency zone: 10 - 24,000 Hz
Power source: Single 3 shape charge type nickel hydrogen electric batteries
Electric battery duration: Charge type electric battery: 10 hours / Alkaline electric battery: 15 hours / Manganese electric batteries: 5 hours
Mass: 320g

Additional features

Recharge: 2 hours on "speed boost" for a full 14 hours of battery life


The price at AudioCubes is $399.00 which is a little more than the Pioneer SE-DIR800CII ($389.00) and a little cheaper than Pioneer SE-DIR1000 ($439) and Pioneer SE-DHP2000 ($449).

Until I read this thread I was almost ready to get the Pioneer SE-DHP2000 for $449 from AudioCubes. Then I was suddenly in doubt because DSperber gave it up so easily and returned it. I also belong to the consumer segment of "hard to satisfy geeks" but I think some of us have different needs and expectations and I will probably only use it for movies ;)Well, I'm not as hard to please as it might seem. In fact I've used my "wired EQ/amp/headphone" setup (source to base station via optical -> DBX 14/10 EQ -> Stax SRM-T1S -> Stax Omega-I phones) quite successfully with both the Pioneer 1000 as well as the 800. I personally prefer the vertical form factor of the 1000 and don't miss the absence of coax digital input as is present on the newer 800 and 2000 units.

My unhappiness with the 2000 was not because of the wireless headphones included with the product or the resulting wireless headphone quality, but rather with the apparently cheapened and weakened built-in amp they use for the wired amp/headphone connectivity (i.e. to my Stax). Since I don't use wireless, but really only use the base station in any of the three products and connect the base station to my wired eq/amp/headphone setup it is the wired performance (and the built-in amp quality) that I'm concerned with. And although I gave it a good try, my own feeling is that the 2000 has a significantly degraded built-in amp for the wired headphone jack path.


Then I stumbled over the Panasonic RP-WH7000 which isn't mentioned in this forum and I'm having a hard time finding any reviews.

Has anyone of you tried the Panasonic RP-WH7000? I saw this product advertised a while back, but never looked into it further than enlarging the picture and reading the specs.

Note that the writeup does not specifically make mention of "Dolby Headphone" as a built-in codec/technology, nor does it point out the usual three modes of DH1/DH2/DH3. It only mentions "Dolby Digital" (whatever that means, perhaps being somehow able to accept DD2.0/5.1 input and process it through some proprietary but not officially licensed Dolby Headphone technique) and "Dolby Pro Logic II" (with its cinema/voice/music choices, but which is inferior in my opinion to both DD and DTS).

So I'm guessing the product does NOT utilize Dolby Headphone (and therefore did not have to pay a licensing fee to Dolby), which is significant to me. I believe Sony, as well, has some type of similar wireless digital surround headphone product that also uses a proprietary built-in substitute for Dolby Headphone, and which I recall reading various online comments about opining that it didn't do as good a job as Dolby Headphone.

Consequently I would not consider the product (although to be honest I have not listened to their non-Dolby Headphone version of DD2.0/5.1 decoding) since I have grown very satisfied with Dolby Headphone. Plus, the Pioneer units support the same DD, DTS and Dolby PL-II sources... as well as utilizing Dolby Headphone to do the decoding.

Nevertheless, there's obviously a need for products like this. I, like you, just do not have the physical environment that can support a true multi-channel surround loudspeaker setup.

Note that the writeup does not specifically make mention of "Dolby Headphone" as a built-in codec/technology, nor does it point out the usual three modes of DH1/DH2/DH3.
Since the last time I visited this thread I have made some more research in my quest for a digital wireless surround headphone that appears to meet my needs (most of all I just want to experience DTS). I am definitely going for a Dolby Headphone now and to my understanding the Panasonic RP-WH7000 - just like the earlier model RP-WH5000 - does not support this technology. I have experienced the DH1/DH2/DH3 a little myself through NVIDIA NVDVD Audio Decoder on a PC with a couple of cheap 5.1 headphones and I think I ended up feeling most comfortable with DH2 for the movies Cabin Fever and The Descent.


I believe Sony, as well, has some type of similar wireless digital surround headphone product that also uses a proprietary built-in substitute for Dolby Headphone, and which I recall reading various online comments about opining that it didn't do as good a job as Dolby Headphone.
Sony is using VTP (Virtual Phones Technology) in their surround headphones. Do you think you can recall where you have read those comments?


Nevertheless, there's obviously a need for products like this. I, like you, just do not have the physical environment that can support a true multi-channel surround loudspeaker setup.I am just wondering if I should wait for the next generation of multi-channel surround headphones. They are probably just around the corner? I am just afraid that if I buy the Pioneer SE-DIR2000 then Pioneer will release a new model late 2006.

For the record I have posted my research on wireless digital surround headphones on another forum. It is in my motherlanguage Danish though but at the bottom of the thread there is a comprehensive list with pictures of the currently available products of its kind that I could find (including product price and shipping expenses).

Have you heard of the Onkyo MHP-AV1 (Dolby Headphones)? At YesAsia they go around for $349.99 with free worldwide shipping. I think their specs are nice. I just can not find any comments anywhere on how good they are.

I have not made 5 posts so I may not place any links in this forum just yet :rolleyes: Will PM.

Sony is using VTP (Virtual Phones Technology) in their surround headphones. Do you think you can recall where you have read those comments?Got your PM.

As far as the Sony headphone feedback, I think the comments may simply have been from reviews associated with the product as posted on shopping sites. Can't recall specifically.

But I can recommend another forum for you to perhaps get other's comments on LOTS of headphone-related stuff: Headwize forum, for all things headphone/amp related (http://headwize.com/index.htm) . Click on the "Forums Home" button on the upper-left to enter the discussion area.

Headwize is the headphone equivalent of AVS (but obviously not as large, and with a much smaller target interest area), so you should get lots of feedback there.

Ack! I dropped my SIR-DE800C headphones after almost 2yrs of loving use, and thought they were fine, then as I was pulling a headset to take it off my head SNAP!:( I did my best and superglued it back together, but since the break was on the inside and by superglueing it means one side no longer swivels, so it just isn't very comfortable to wear anymore.$150 flimsy POS:(:(:(:(:(

OK, I don't have that much money. I definitely want to buy another pair of wireless cans. Should I get another pair of 800Cs, or should I save up for 2000Cs or even Audio-Technica ATH-DCL3000Rs?

Ack! I dropped my SIR-DE800C headphones after almost 2yrs of loving use, and thought they were fine, then as I was pulling a headset to take it off my head SNAP!:( I did my best and superglued it back together, but since the break was on the inside and by superglueing it means one side no longer swivels, so it just isn't very comfortable to wear anymore.$150 flimsy POS:(:(:(:(:(

OK, I don't have that much money. I definitely want to buy another pair of wireless cans. Should I get another pair of 800Cs, or should I save up for 2000Cs or even Audio-Technica ATH-DCL3000Rs?

I too managed to break my beloved headset from my SE-DIR800C package (which I use with the Xbox 360 optical DTS out, by the way). The following seem to be the current replacement options (prices from audiocubes):

1. Existing wired headphones I have laying around
2. Audio-Technica ATH-DCL3000R Dolby Digital Wireless Headphones - $339
3. Pioneer SE-DHP2000 Headset - $229
4. Pioneer SE-DIR800II Headset - $159

After reading most of this thread, I'm inclined to go with option 3. Any advice? What did you end up doing, DaveFi?

Any advice?
Have you tried contacting Pioneer directly to see if they offer any other options, such as repair or replacement?

Have you tried contacting Pioneer directly to see if they offer any other options, such as repair or replacement?

Thanks, yes, I tried that. Since I've had the unit for almost 2 years, there is nothing they can do -- at least nothing cost effective.

By the way, I didn't drop my headset or anything. It broke through normal usage. So, be careful with yours! I think I broke it taking it off my head one-handed.

Thanks, yes, I tried that. Since I've had the unit for almost 2 years, there is nothing they can do -- at least nothing cost effective.

By the way, I didn't drop my headset or anything. It broke through normal usage. So, be careful with yours! I think I broke it taking it off my head one-handed.
Wow. That's scary that they break so easily.

If Pioneer doesn't address this, then I wouldn't be surprised if some people resort to the old switcharoo.

I recently purchased 2 of the pioneer se-dir800c units....one for my home theater room, and the other for my bedroom. I live in a highrise condo unit, and I am trying to be considerate to my neighbors for late evening listening.

The first is hooked to my home theater.

I currently have this unit hooked to:
1) Panasonic DVD player via coaxial input
2) Cable DVR Tuner via Optical cable
3) Yamaha Musiccast music server via left and right rca analog cables.

My first question.....I think I know the answer to......and that is why I hooked it this way......is if I run a single optical digital cable from my Denon receiver optical output to the wireless headphone base........will the headphones get the proper 5.1 channel dolby and dts signals from all of the above items that are hooked to the receiver as well (or is it best to leave it hooked the way I have it above). I wondered whether the Denon receiver (AVR-3802 to be exact) used a PCM output on the digital optical cable output, so that it would not work properly.

The single cable hookup would save me on cables, but also would seem to allow me not to have to select inputs every time I listen.

Is there a way to hook this so that the unit automatically chooses the input that has a signal?

I do think it would be nice if the unit had remote control ability for on/off, and inputs as well as perhaps other settings, but I guess that would be asking for too much.

Is there any way to extend the range? (perhaps with an IR repeater?) This setup does not even seem to cover the size of my living room. I have tried several different positions of the base unit.

My second unit in the bedroom is hooked to a 2 channel sony stereo receiver via only rca analog input cables. (It is an old receiver without digital outputs).


I must say, I think the sound quality is quite good on both setups. Absolutely no hiss or noise, which seemed to be the biggest complaints with other wireless headphones. I do like that when you go out of range, it quickly loses signal rather than getting static which I have heard with some wireless headphones as well.

I upgraded from an old pair of Sennheiser HD-414X headphones which I have had for 30 years but which still work great, and the wireless sound quality is much better on these wireless pioneers than the wired 414X's.

Overall, after just a short trial period...........I am quite pleased.

But as mentioned above......would be superb with:
1) larger range
2) auto selection of inputs (if only one is receiving signal)
3) remote control for settings and on/off control (like every other item in my home theater)

And as a last question.........was considering buying a third setup for my computer-pc/music server client for my computer room. (they all could be hooked up using one digital coaxial cable) I could then hear the same music throughout my condo with the headphones.......although there would be dead zones walking between the rooms. I emailed pioneer to see if there was any way to get a separate base unit (since I really don't need a third headphone.........) and they said a full set needs to be purchased. (actually, I didn't really need the full second set even). Any thoughts as to where I might be able to pick up a separate base unit? I checked ebay, and couldn't find any. Thanks

if I run a single optical digital cable from my Denon receiver optical output to the wireless headphone base........will the headphones get the proper 5.1 channel dolby and dts signals from all of the above items that are hooked to the receiver as well (or is it best to leave it hooked the way I have it above).Yes. Whatever source the Denon receiver is selected to is what will be put out on its digital optical cable and hence what the Pioneer base unit will process.

So if you do this rewiring, you can disconnect your current three individual device connections to the 800C base unit and just leave the base unit permanently selected to INPUT1 (digital optical input). And the Pioneer unit will see exactly the same digital audio (DD5.1/DTS) that the Denon unit sees. It's as if you had the Pioneer unit directly digitally connected to whatever source the Denon was selected to.

And this allows you to use your Denon's remote to select listening source through the headphones, as you want.

Sorry... there's no remote for the Pioneer, so there's no way to remotely turn it on or off or change inputs. Nor is there anything you can do about its inherent wireless range capabilities or limitations (or construction of walls in your condo or the size of your room).

The only other possible option you have (at least in your primary viewing area) is to go "wired" (as I do) with a separate independent headphone (and amp, probably) plugged into the Pioneer's base unit's analog headphone output jack. I have a Stax headphone/amp (as well as a DBX EQ in the analog connection path, for analog tone control) as well as an additional 15' extension cord for the headphones (on top of its own 6' cord) that allows me lots of listening position options as well as much improved audio quality (both volume as well as tone) over the supplied Pioneer wireless headphones... while still benefiting from the primary function of the Pioneer unit which is to support DD/DTS multi-channel digital audio input through headphone output.

Your suggestion worked with the exception of the non-digital audio through my Denon receiver. Fm radio from the Denon's built in tuner as well as vcr audio seem to need analog hookup from the Denon tape output to the headphones base unit's analog rca inputs. Now I get DVD, Cable, and Music Server without changing my input setting on the headphone unit, and for radio, or vcr, I have to change it to analog inputs. (so 90% of the time there is not setting change). Also, now that the musiccast server is going in via the digital input rather than analog, the Dolbey Music/Movie toggle changes automatically rather than having to change that setting.

Thanks.

Your suggestion worked with the exception of the non-digital audio through my Denon receiver. Fm radio from the Denon's built in tuner as well as vcr audio seem to need analog hookup from the Denon tape output to the headphones base unit's analog rca inputs. Now I get DVD, Cable, and Music Server without changing my input setting on the headphone unit, and for radio, or vcr, I have to change it to analog inputs. (so 90% of the time there is not setting change). Also, now that the musiccast server is going in via the digital input rather than analog, the Dolby PL Music/Movie toggle changes automatically rather than having to change that setting.Well it was you that hypothesized that you could use the Denon as a "digital switcher", routing any of its multiple digital audio input sources through it (totally unmodified) to its digital audio output and then on to the digital audio input of the Pioneer unit. I simply confirmed that it would work... that this is precisely one of the great things about digital A/V devices with a digital output so that they can be part of this terrific digital relay system that loses 0% quality when the data finally reaches the target device.

And yes, having the Dolby PL switch on the Pioneer set to "AUTO" allows it to automatically switch to Music or Movie as appropriate. And as you point out, now that all of your relevant digital inputs are coming through a single INPUT1 to the Pioneer, you have to do NOTHING to the Pioneer to listen to any of those digital sources. You only have to select the input on the Denon with your remote.


As far as your additional analog audio feeds into the Denon, well I didn't know you had them too. Too bad the receiver doesn't have any A/D converter to send that analog input signal out through the digital audio output. Failing that, yes you will have to connect the analog L/R output of the Denon to the Pioneer's analog inputs as you have done, and then you will have to select the analog input on the Pioneer if you want to listen to either of those two sources, as you have recognized. No way around that, unfortunately.

In passing I mention that my JVC DT100U and 40K D-VHS VCRs both have the necessary A/D converters to accept analog L/R stereo audio input and send it out over their digital audio output. Same with their having the necessary video converters to accept analog 480i SD video input (e.g. S-video) and send it out over the component video output (I pass it through at 480i because my Sony 34XBR960 can accept 480i on its component video input along with 480p, 720p and 1080i, although I do believe the 480i input can be upconverted to anything for output). I know this because I have my D* receiver routed through one of the D-VHS VCRs, S-video and L/R analog audio, and the VCR is connected to the XBR960 both by S-video and L/R analog audio as well as component video and digital audio. I can watch the D* video through either S-video or component, and I can listen to the D* audio through either L/R analog or digital. So the VCR is obviously converting L/R analog audio input to digital audio output. I would have assumed the Denon could do that as well.


Anyway, glad you got things rewired and operating to where its at least mostly no more touching of the Pioneer when you switch input sources.

I've become so used to listening to HD content through my DIR-SE1000C and Stax/DBX wired headphone/amp/EQ setup where I can hear every little tiny sound in absolute digital clarity and with sort of 3D multi-channel left/right/front/rear depth perception that I can't imagine what I did before this. I, too, have a condo where it's impossible to have a true surround sound loudspeaker system. This is my solution... and it's been terrific.

Sometimes I look around me startled thinking someone else is in the room, or the phone is ringing, or a door is opening, or something like that... only to realize it's just one of those bizarre little sound effects that is part of the movie or show sound track I'm watching, coming at me from its "virtual location" to the side or rear. Quite amazing to have that audio signal coming directly into your two ears and letting your brain invent the 3D solution to the cues.

Thought of another feature that would be nice for the SE-DIR800C. It would be nice if there was an option that turned off the base and headphones if there was no signal for 30 minutes or so. As to not run down the batteries. I do see many complaints however for people using the Sennheisers, in that their units have this feature, and they seem to turn off at times if you are playing a video game without much sound for some parts. (perhaps it could be a switchable option.

Overall, after a couple more days use..........I am quite pleased with the headphones.

After another week's use..........just a comment. This line of sight infra-red thing is kind of touchy. The sound quality is very good, but even fairly close to the base unit, turning your head or putting your hand up to your face can sometimes break up the sound.

Ok so what is best to go with? The Pioneer DIR2000c's?
Or the Pioneer 800c's?

Or even the Audio-Technica ATH-DCL3000R?

Just a heads up... SVS vs. Dolby Headphone


For those of you who've been following this technology (Smyth Virtual Surround, aka SVS) for several years as I have, it's similar in concept to Dolby Headphone in its attempt to produce multi-channel surround sensation through ordinary headphones.

However it works differently (and vastly better, so I've heard and read), and also differs in that its source is already-decoded discrete multi-channel analog rather than the encoded DD5.1/DTS or newer digital datastream. The decoder is presumed to be external and the analog outputs of the decoder are fed to the inputs of the SVS box which has matching analog outputs for optional "relay" connection to your receiver, as well as L/R analog outputs for feeding to your headphone amp. The SVS box thus appears between the multi-channel analog source and your multi-channel analog receiver (if you have one) with no digital inputs or outputs of its own.

Having the decoder external to the SVS box insulates Smyth from (a) having to pay royalties to the owner of the codec, and (b) having to have firmware/software updates every time a new high-end HD audio codec appears or is updated. Relying on the discrete analog result of external decoding is clearly the optimal approach for them.

Smyth-Research is planning to have their high-end SVS box available very soon. And they've licensed the technology to Yamaha, which has a much less expensive box presumably also being available soon.

Smyth-Research has a booth at CES, SandVenetian Zeno 4805, and you should try to make it your business to visit if you're going to be there, for a demo. I was supposed to be going to CES but unfortunately have had to cancel. They'll be using Stax Omega headphones and amp.

I'm guessing (but am not sure) that you might also see the Yamaha box demoed at their HD/home theater CES booth, Central 12128.

Please provide feedback of SVS on the forum if you do go to CES and go to either of the SVS demos. I'm kicking myself for not being able to be there for the second year in a row.

tachy: where is the digital output on the denon?
ican't fin it.
thanks

Ok so what is best to go with? The Pioneer DIR2000c's?
Or the Pioneer 800c's?

Or even the Audio-Technica ATH-DCL3000R?

I have the 800c and they are great, though a bit fragile at the cup pivot. But I'd like to get the DCL3000R headset at some point... Only $299 on ebay.

Well, I now have something new to add... my comments on the Philips SBC-HD1500 which I recently bought and just arrived yesterday.

Today I am sending them back to J&R for an RMA replacement. I hope the replacement will not have the same problem as the ones I first received had a low-level hum (like 60 cycle) coming out of the headphone jacks (both of them), when there was no digital input source (I mean the source was powered off, or just silent because the DVR was in PAUSE, or something like that).

The hum was present even when the Philips base unit was itself in standby mode (i.e. powered off, conceptually)!

Now to be fair, I simply replaced my Pioneer unit with the Philips unit, so I'm listening to the system through the same wired DBX EQ and Stax amp/headphone linkup, not cheapie plug-in wired heaphones (e.g. Sony MDR's). So I might be able to hear low-level sound that less sensitive headphones might not make quite so noticeable.

Nevertheless, the analyzer LEDs on my DBX EQ clearly showed the low-level hum down there in the low frequency area, and I heard it, and it bothered me. Even more so because the Pioneer DIR-SE1000C is DEAD SILENT in this same set of circumstances. I mean DEAD SILENT.

Obviously it's the amp in the Philips box vs. the amp in the Pioneer box, and there must be different electronics and/or grounding. Whatever the electrical explanation I did not want to keep this unit because of the hum, and if the replacement has the same hum I've already told J&R it's going back too... this time for RETURN, not replacement.


Now, as far as how it sounded and how it worked, I did not even get a chance to try the wireless headphones yet because the batteries take 16 hours to charge. And I boxed it up for return long before that much time had elapsed.

But otherwise, the HD1500 base unit has digital (coax) in and out, so it can be "in between" your digital source and digital AVR, which is good. The Pioneer SE1000C only has optical in (not out, and no coax... though the 800C and 2000C do). No optical digital support on the HD1500 but that was not a problem for my source device (Zektor HDS4 switch, which has both coax and optical digital audio outputs).

The HD1500 also has analog input and output, again good. The Pioneer only has analog input.

Same support on both Philips and Pioneer for Dolby/DTS multi-channel and 2-channel stereo, and Dolby PL movie/music.

The front display of the Philips is very nice, legible and clear. It also shows the difference between DD5.1 and DD2.0 which is nice. Pioneer only shows DD. Philips also has a "night mode" which equalizes a boost into low volume bass and treble (kind of like "loudness" but for both bass and treble) so when listening at lower volumes you won't lose quiet sounds. Interesting, but I never listen that way so it's not much of a feature for me.

I will say that the wired headphone amp (and the two output jacks) on the Philips is MUCH STRONGER than that of the Pioneer, although I feel the Pioneer amp to be cleaner and clearer at what I felt were the same loudness levels (based on the DB numbers shown on my DBX EQ for the same scene in the same DVR recording I was listening to).

The wireless headphones of the Philips looked and felt great, and I'm suspecting would have sounded MUCH better than the headphones included with the DIR-SE1000C, and definitely better than those of the 800C. The phones with the 2000C are essentially the same as with the 1000C.

So, let's hope the replacement does not have the same hum... but I think it will. This is obviously something in the design of the unit, and not a defect in the particular unit I recieved... in my opinion.


I still feel that for my purpose, with the wired headphone arrangement I use, that the 1000C base unit is so far the absolute best sounding of them all. Definitely better than the 800C, and much better than the 2000C where Pioneer cheapened up the wired amp significantly.

I would also rate the 1000C base unit better sounding than the HD1500, but I'm suspecting the wireless headphones with the HD1500 will perhaps sound the best of the lot. And if they have the wireless volume I think they might (given the output strength of the wired headphone amp built into the base unit) they probably will be the winners on the wireless side. But I reserve comment until I actually hear them.

In the meantime, the 1000C for me is still the champ. And I really like its vertical form styling.

However the HD1500 has a beautiful antenna on the back of its top, with a nice groove cut into it where you lay the edge of the top of the headphone plastic/strap. Then there's a lovely round textured plate at the front of its top, where the side edge of the headphone earcups naturally fall if the top is sitting on the antenna groove. So there is no slipping around, and no scratching the top of the base unit. Very ergonomically pleasing.

So what's the resolution? Get the Pioneer 800c's wireless surround sound system just for it's base receiver. But swap out the supplied wireless headphones for some superior wired headphones that is resoundedly better?

DSperber would you say the Audio-Technica wireless headphones are better than the 800c's wireless headphones just based off of pure specs on the headphones themselves?

So what's the resolution? Get the Pioneer 800c's wireless surround sound system just for it's base receiver. But swap out the supplied wireless headphones for some superior wired headphones that is resoundedly better?Essentially that's what I've done... with the 1000C. That gives me a way to hear crystal clear digital audio perfection through my Stax Omega amp/headphones + DBX EQ, and also enjoy a pretty good simulation of DD5.1 via Dolby Headphone.

Same for a friend of mine, who bought an 800C and to whom I've lent an older set of Stax Lambda amp/headphones (no spare DBX EQ, I'm afraid... all three that I own are in use in my own house) which she uses instead of the wireless Pioneers.

On the other hand, upon my recommendation my nephew and brother-in-law have both used their 800C's with the Pioneer headphones (in bed, at night, so that the spouse can sleep while they watch and listen to bedroom HDTV) and both aver that they are perfectly satisfied with the sound and convenience. However their needs and requirements are obviously less than mine.

If the Philips HD1500 RMA/replacement I'll have next week doesn't have the same wired-jack hum of the original I received, I'm guessing this product will be superior to the Pioneer... especially since I'm guessing the wireless headphones it comes with seem clearly superior to all three variants of the Pioneer wireless headphones I've seen and heard (with the 800C, 1000C and 2000C). But I still can't speak from firsthand experience yet.

Whatever satisfies you... you have choices. All products are about the same relative price.

DSperber would you say the Audio-Technica wireless headphones are better than the 800c's wireless headphones just based off of pure specs on the headphones themselves?Well I must admit I can't find "pure specs" for the ATH-DCL3000R headphones, or the ATH-DCL3000 "kit" (which includes base unit, as I understand it). If you know a URL that provides detail specs for the headphone and base unit, please advise.

I'm confused, because it looks like the headphones themselves include a digital decoder (for DD, DTS, etc.) so what's the base unit for? And if the headphones don't include a decoder, how can they be sold separately without the base unit... unless it is to be a second/replacement headphone for a Pioneer base unit or ATH base unit?

Also, the product does not appear to be sold/built by Audio Technica any longer, since I can't find it on their web site. Only seems available on eBay, unless you have another source. Even Audio Cubes doesn't sell it. With base unit on eBay - $740. Headphones alone on eBay - $299. I'm confused.

From what I can tell, the base unit looks similar to the 1000C/2000C from Pioneer in that it is vertical. Also has a 2 optical digital in and 1 optical digital out (which is good, if you need it) but no coax digital in (which is bad, if you need it).

I also see a wired headphone jack on the front but no volume control! This seems very problematic (unless it's line-level which I guess it would have to be, and really intended to feed an external headphone amp). But if it's line-level, why use a headphone jack on the front? Why not L/R-stereo analog outputs on the back? Strange.

Finally, if this unit is actually a Japanese product (not originally intended for sale in America) then it requires a Japan-to-US voltage converter to use here. This item came as a freebie when I bought my 1000C through Audio-Cubes. But if you buy the headphone/base elsewhere don't forget to inquire about the voltage requirements.

So, for the moment I really have no genuine or justified comments, other than assuming price should relate to quality/sound. On the other hand, the electronics capabilities of the ATH and Pioneer and Philips base units appear essentially identical (except for the ground-level hum out of the Philips wired headphone jack whereas the Pioneer units are dead silent).

But otherwise, the HD1500 base unit has digital (coax) in and out, so it can be "in between" your digital source and digital AVR, which is good.
Did you try using the digital output on the HD1500? Couldn't you avoid the hum by using it instead of its analog output? Also, couldn't you use an external DAC that is better than the its internal DAC?

I am perfectly happy with the 800c default phones. Though I secretly covet the DCL3000s, I see no real reason to spend $300 on them! The 800c phones sound terrific to me and I would recommend them to anyone.

I am perfectly happy with the 800c default phones. Though I secretly covet the DCL3000s, I see no real reason to spend $300 on them! The 800c phones sound terrific to me and I would recommend them to anyone.

I guess you are paying the extra $300 for the more quality the headphones themselves give over the Pioneer base wireless headphones. I guess if you have the extra money laying around why not upgrade eh? The ebay description shows you can use the DCL3000's with the 800c receiver. Hell theo, I covet the audo Technica headphones as well and I don't even have the 800c yet.

Well I must admit I can't find "pure specs" for the ATH-DCL3000R headphones, or the ATH-DCL3000 "kit" (which includes base unit, as I understand it). If you know a URL that provides detail specs for the headphone and base unit, please advise.

I'm confused, because it looks like the headphones themselves include a digital decoder (for DD, DTS, etc.) so what's the base unit for? And if the headphones don't include a decoder, how can they be sold separately without the base unit... unless it is to be a second/replacement headphone for a Pioneer base unit or ATH base unit?

Also, the product does not appear to be sold/built by Audio Technica any longer, since I can't find it on their web site. Only seems available on eBay, unless you have another source. Even Audio Cubes doesn't sell it. With base unit on eBay - $740. Headphones alone on eBay - $299. I'm confused.

From what I can tell, the base unit looks similar to the 1000C/2000C from Pioneer in that it is vertical. Also has a 2 optical digital in and 1 optical digital out (which is good, if you need it) but no coax digital in (which is bad, if you need it).

I also see a wired headphone jack on the front but no volume control! This seems very problematic (unless it's line-level which I guess it would have to be, and really intended to feed an external headphone amp). But if it's line-level, why use a headphone jack on the front? Why not L/R-stereo analog outputs on the back? Strange.

Finally, if this unit is actually a Japanese product (not originally intended for sale in America) then it requires a Japan-to-US voltage converter to use here. This item came as a freebie when I bought my 1000C through Audio-Cubes. But if you buy the headphone/base elsewhere don't forget to inquire about the voltage requirements.

So, for the moment I really have no genuine or justified comments, other than assuming price should relate to quality/sound. On the other hand, the electronics capabilities of the ATH and Pioneer and Philips base units appear essentially identical (except for the ground-level hum out of the Philips wired headphone jack whereas the Pioneer units are dead silent).

The only "spec" I have for the headphones is what's listed on the ebay page that you saw.

http://cgi.*********/NEW-Audio-Technica-ATH-DCL3000R-Cordless-Headphones_W0QQitemZ9728425093QQcmdZViewItem <-----Link is fubar.

If you do a google search DS you'd find a page that has a little bit more information on the headphones in question. I can't make sense of it since I'm not a wireless headphone tech. DS you can compare the specs that are supplied by both ebay pages for the 800c wireless headphones and the audio-Technica wireless headphones. They give a short tech description of both.

Did you try using the digital output on the HD1500?No. But then I don't have an external receiver which is expecting digital input from a digital audio source, to which this "digital relay" from the HD1500 would then go. That's my situation... can't put a real loudspeaker-based surround system in the bedroom of my 3rd-floor condo where my HDTV and this audio gear lives. Things end with my headphones.


Couldn't you avoid the hum by using it instead of its analog output?The whole point is to utilize the base unit (from any of these manufacturers) to convert multichannel digital DD5.1/DTS/etc. into 2-channel analog output through Dolby Headphone technology, to be sent to either wireless or wired headphones for simulation of multi-channel sound via headphones and your two ears (and brain).

Analog wired output from the base unit (now processed through Dolby Headphone into the "magic surround-sound simulation") is how you feed wired headphones in order to appreciate what Dolby Headphone did. That's the only way.

Wanting to use the digital output of the HD1500 to somehow convert to analog for headphones presumes the digital input was only 2-channel digital PCM stereo, not multi-channel DD5.1/DTS as is the case.


Also, couldn't you use an external DAC that is better than the its internal DAC?No. Again, the point is not to convert digital 2-channel PCM stereo into analog. The base unit is not just a DAC... it's a Dolby Headphone DAC.

If the input was nothing more than simply 2-channel digital PCM stereo you wouldn't need these base units... you could, as you suggest, just use an external DAC and feed your headphones from there.

But again, we're dealing with multi-channel DD5.1/DTS digital source, processed to analog through Dolby Headphone. As such analog out (wired) or RF to wireless headphones are the only options.

The only "spec" I have for the headphones is what's listed on the ebay page that you saw. Well I still don't understand what the product is.

Do the headphones require the base unit or not as seems to be suggested by the [poorly written?] wording? Is the DD5.1/DTS decoding done in the headphones, or in the base unit, or potentially in both (or either) places???

How can these headphones work with the Pioneer base unit which has already converted DD5.1/DTS to L/R stereo for the two cups of the headphones? That would seem to want to bypass any DD5.1/DTS decoding capability built into the phones and use them simply as plain wireless headphones that are superior to the Pioneers.

Since wireless headphones require a transmitter/base, how can the headphones possibly be used "standalone"? And if not, what is the point of selling them separately from the base unit (aside from being an expensive second or replacement wireless headphone)?

As you can see I really don't understand how one can avoid buying the ATH headphones plus its base unit, and furthermore why the base unit would have Dolby Headphone capability if the headphones already does as well?

I still have not seen any audio specs on the ATH headphones, so I can't begin to compare or comment on them.

Well I still don't understand what the product is.

Do the headphones require the base unit or not as seems to be suggested by the [poorly written?] wording? Is the DD5.1/DTS decoding done in the headphones, or in the base unit, or potentially in both (or either) places???

How can these headphones work with the Pioneer base unit which has already converted DD5.1/DTS to L/R stereo for the two cups of the headphones? That would seem to want to bypass any DD5.1/DTS decoding capability built into the phones and use them simply as plain wireless headphones that are superior to the Pioneers.

Since wireless headphones require a transmitter/base, how can the headphones possibly be used "standalone"? And if not, what is the point of selling them separately from the base unit (aside from being an expensive second or replacement wireless headphone)?

As you can see I really don't understand how one can avoid buying the ATH headphones plus its base unit, and furthermore why the base unit would have Dolby Headphone capability if the headphones already does as well?

I still have not seen any audio specs on the ATH headphones, so I can't begin to compare or comment on them.

You thinking too much into this DS. The Headphones is listed as and is being sold as extra headphones for the ATH base Unit. Extra headphones you could buy. The description list them as being capable of accepting the dolby sound that the base unit ATH unit produces. It's being sold from a japanese dealer so perhaps it is worded wrong. Just assume from the specs the make shift page gives you. The extra headphones can be fitted with standalone batteries because obviously without the base unit these headphones would not be able to charge from the base.

No. But then I don't have an external receiver which is expecting digital input from a digital audio source, to which this "digital relay" from the HD1500 would then go.
Are you saying that the HD1500's digital output merely serves as a "pass through"? In other words, the HD1500 receives a 5.1-channel signal on its digital input, and then it produces the exact same 5.1-channel signal on its digital output?

I thought that the digital output might not be a "pass through." That is, I thought that the digital output might carry the 2-channel Dolby Headphone signal. In other words, I thought that it might be the same as the analog output, except that it's a digital signal instead of an analog signal.

Are you saying that the HD1500's digital output merely serves as a "pass through"? In other words, the HD1500 receives a 5.1-channel signal on its digital input, and then it produces the exact same 5.1-channel signal on its digital output?I'm quite sure that is the intent. In other words, the design allows the HD1500's base unit to be inserted in the path between your DD5.1/DTS source and your receiver for which this still-encoded digital data is precisely what is expected.

Very much like the "tape loop" idea for analog audio equipment, where any number of processors, tape decks, etc., can be inserted in series starting with the tape loop output of the preamp... to L/R audio in of the first box, whose L/R audio out then feeds L/R audio in of the next box, etc... with the last one's L/R audio output going back to the tape loop input of the preamp. This allows any one or more boxes to insert the desired effect or perform the desired function.

In the current case, however, I would expect that the intent is NOT to insert any processing on the digital output going to the receiver but simply to pass it through, having tapped into the datastream for application of Dolby Headphone processing to feed the connected headphones.

This is the same design as with the new Yamaha processor which incorporates Smyth Virtual Surround, where the Yamaha case is again between the signal source and the receiver... with the Yamaha box feeding your headphones. The difference in this SVS case, however, is that the signal path is pure 7-channel analog (in and out of the Yamaha box), with the source expected to be a decoding box of some kind that can put out discrete multi-channel analog (e.g. HD DVD) and the receiver expected to be a new one that can accept such discrete multi-channel analog input.

Again, the Yamaha box in the middle is expected to insert NO processing in its output to the receiver, but rather simply to pass on the discrete analog input completely untouched. Its processing is applied solely to the headphones connected to it.

In the current case, however, I would expect that the intent is NOT to insert any processing on the digital output going to the receiver but simply to pass it through, having tapped into the datastream for application of Dolby Headphone processing to feed the connected headphones.
Did you try the digital output and confirm that it passes through without DH?
This is the same design as with the new Yamaha processor which incorporates Smyth Virtual Surround, where the Yamaha case is again between the signal source and the receiver... with the Yamaha box feeding your headphones. The difference in this SVS case, however, is that the signal path is pure 7-channel analog (in and out of the Yamaha box), with the source expected to be a decoding box of some kind that can put out discrete multi-channel analog (e.g. HD DVD) and the receiver expected to be a new one that can accept such discrete multi-channel analog input.
Do you know for sure that the Yamaha box has 7-channel analog I/O? Although I have seen reports that the SVS Realiser box has 8-channel analog I/O, I have not seen any reports that describe the I/O on the Yamaha box. Looking at the photos, it seems that 14 connectors would barely fit on the Yamaha box, which is much smaller than the Realiser box.

Did you try the digital output and confirm that it passes through without DH?No, pure speculation. Didn't have the time before returning the unit I'd received for an RMA/replacement (hoping the new one will not have the same hum out of the wired headphone jack).

But then I have no digital receiver to connect the output of the HD1500 to. I can't even connect it directly to the digital input of my Pioneer DIR-SE1000C base unit, because the Pioneer only has optical digital input and the HD1500 only has coax digital in/out. I suppose I could connect it through my Zektor HDS4 switch, which supports both optical/coax in and optical/coax out.

I suppose the proof of pure digital pass-through (of the original encoded DD5.1/DTS signal) would be if the Pioneer base unit shows the "original" DD5.1/DTS lights instead of indicating simply 2-channel stereo (i.e. post-processing out of the Dolby Headphone logic but in digital form rather than analog from the wired headphone jack).

However I give pretty much zero probability that the digital audio out is anything but a pass-through of the digital audio in. The result of Dolby Headphone IS analog L/R 2-channel stereo intended for analog headphones (wired, or wireless, no difference). I don't believe there is any output in the digital domain.


Do you know for sure that the Yamaha box has 7-channel analog I/O? Although I have seen reports that the SVS Realiser box has 8-channel analog I/O, I have not seen any reports that describe the I/O on the Yamaha box. Looking at the photos, it seems that 14 connectors would barely fit on the Yamaha box, which is much smaller than the Realiser box.Again, no. Pure speculation.

But I thought I had seen a schematic of the placement of the Yamaha box, and it was between the multi-channel discrete analog output source and the multi-channel discrete analog input receiver. That would require at least 12 (DD5.1) if not 14 or 16 connectors on the Yamaha box, as you point out. And yes, the box does seem small for that many connectors.

And I believe you're right in thinking that the SVS Realiser can support DD5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 sound (meaning it would need to have 2x8 connectors) assuming that it, too, was placed in between the source and receiver.

Unless the Yamaha box had both analog inputs and outputs, it would need to be "at the end" of some secondary/spare connection path that I don't believe exists on typical multi-channel analog source devices or multi-channel analog receivers. The source boxes I've looked at have one set of analog outputs, and the receivers only have analog inputs but no analog outputs.


Until the device specs for both units become available, I guess we can only imagine what would seem to make sense to us as users. But to be honest, I'm really only speculating.

Unless the Yamaha box had both analog inputs and outputs, it would need to be "at the end" of some secondary/spare connection path that I don't believe exists on typical multi-channel analog source devices or multi-channel analog receivers. The source boxes I've looked at have one set of analog outputs, and the receivers only have analog inputs but no analog outputs.
Couldn't Y-adapters be used to split the analog signals? That way, you wouldn't need to have analog outputs on the Yamaha box.

Anyway, I came across a report (http://www.multimediamanufacturer.com/articles/Weinberg-CEDIA-107.pdf) (in PDF format) that states:
"The design is now in a product: the Yamaha Surround Virtualizer, which has analog inputs for up to 5.0 channels, and a SmartCard slot so each user can have his/her own custom optimized settings."

I wonder if 5.0 is a typo, and it is really 5.1, i.e., 6 analog inputs.

Couldn't Y-adapters be used to split the analog signals? That way, you wouldn't need to have analog outputs on the Yamaha box.I suppose so. Of course that's a lot of Y's, and then there's the secondary connections (to the end of the Y's) but I imagine there wouldn't be much, if any, loss of sound quality across high-quality connectors.

But do you really think that's what Yamaha would have in mind for their typical connection method... six Y adapters? Surely they would realize most people would normally have a genuine receiver expecting analog inputs, with real loudspeakers, and that the headphone gizmo would be something additional.

I guess we won't know for sure until product specs are actually released, or we see a picture of the back of their box.

But otherwise, the HD1500 base unit has digital (coax) in and out, so it can be "in between" your digital source and digital AVR, which is good. The Pioneer SE1000C only has optical in (not out, and no coax... though the 800C and 2000C do). No optical digital support on the HD1500 but that was not a problem for my source device (Zektor HDS4 switch, which has both coax and optical digital audio outputs).

The HD1500 also has analog input and output, again good. The Pioneer only has analog input.Ok. Received my replacement HD1500 today and have just unpacked it, but not yet charged the batteries (takes 16 hours) for listening to the "wireless" headphones. Nor have I even connected the base unit as I had done with the pre-RMA unit, in order to listen using my "wired" DBX/Stax EQ/amp/headphone arrangement (which had exhibited the hum that prompted me to return the first unit for exchange).

But, I rush to post an initial finding: that this seems to be a DIFFERENT VERSION OF THE SAME PRODUCT... namely a newer, perhaps "US-intended" version! Maybe it's just a phase-II or enhanced unit. Whatever the explanation it's definitely different.

I have looked online at various retailers for product specs and info, and it is definitely true that the version described by those specs is an "older" (or simpler) version. This one that I've just received is absolutely a newer edition, with new features (that make it VERY VERY DESIRABLE).


(1) The model number on the packaging and instruction manual and sticker on the underside of the base unit is different. This is the SBC HD1500U/37. Most significantly I'm guessing is its mention as the "HD1500U". I believe the original model was simply the "HD1500".


(2) This HD1500U base unit now has OPTICAL AS WELL AS DIGITAL... both input and output for both! So it now has TWO DIGITAL INPUT/OUTPUT choices, optical as well as digital. Previously, the original base unit sent to me (I'm sure it was the standard "HD1500") only had one digital connector... coax only (no optical). Now one is called "Digital 1" and the other is called "Digital 2".

And an additional optical digital connection cable is included in the box, along with a coax digital connection cable. Actually, the new optical cable even has a little "extension adapter" included (never have seen one of those) with what must be referred to as a "male optical" at one end and a "female optical" at the other end. I guess this is for extending the optical digital connection distance if you need it, with two separate optical cables and this extension/adapter.


(3) The HD1500U base unit now TWO ANALOG INPUT/OUTPUT connections. Previously the original HD1500 base unit only had ONE analog input/output connection.


(4) The HD1500U now includes a REMOTE! I am quite certain the original HD1500 did not have a remote, but I may be wrong here. In any event the remote for the 1500U now supports switching between the two digital inputs as well as the two analog inputs.


(5) There is now ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION that the HD1500/HD1500U was intended (or capable of) being placed IN BETWEEN your analog/digital sources and audio receiver (for loudspeakers)... as I would also imagine the upcoming Yamaha YSV box to be. Again, with input/output available for "pass through" of both digital and analog signals, this box can be in the "tape loop" of any device connection layout you'd like.

I say this because one of the features described as a "bullet point" on the carton and diagrammed in great detail in the user guide is something called AASR ("Automatic Audio Signal Routing"). It shows the Philips HD1500U in connection charts exactly where you'd expect it to be... BETWEEN devices that could/would otherwise be directly connected. That's the whole idea behind INPUT/OUTPUT connectors, just as having TWO 1394 ports on standard firewire-compatible devices enables the device to be in the middle or end point of any network topology you might care to design.


Now while there is no mention anywhere that the Dolby Headphone processing is "applied to the outputs" of the box, I still am firmly of the opinion that this is NOT what is designed or built. INPUT/OUTPUT connectors are almost always intended for "pristine pass through" (think tape decks, and "tape loops" for analog audio systems), especially now in the digital domain. Surely that's what Philips was thinking when they dreamed up "Automatic Audio Signal Routing" and planted four matching OUTPUT connectors for each one of their four INPUT connectors.

The only exceptions I can think of are (a) my DBX 14/10 EQ, (b) my old Carver C-9 Sonic Hologram Generator, and (c) my old DBX 224 Noise Reducer, all of which are analog audio processors SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED SO THAT THE OUTPUT IS DIFFERENT FROM THE INPUT (unless you put them in "pass-through" mode).

In the case of the Philips (and Pioneer, and SVS, probably the Yamaha) units the "applied" result of the box's processing is fed only to the headphones "tap" out of the box (wired and wireless), and not on the OUTPUT connector which simply "passes through" the original untouched INPUT analog/digital signal. I would bet lots of money that's how it works.


Anyway, I'll have an actual audio report probably tomorrow, after I get the batteries charged and the base unit connected. I'm hoping there is no hum on the wired connection, because the new features included in the HD1500U model make this a VERY VERY USER-FRIENDLY device for me (hey... a remote!), assuming its audio characteristics are as good as those of the Pioneer DIR-SE1000C base unit.

The HD1500U is indeed an updated version of the HD1500, and has been around in Europe for about a year now. Apart from the improvements mentioned, it also has redesigned swivel joints (which tended to snap quite easily) on the headphones.
FYI, I just checked for hum on the headphone out, using my Sennheiser HD-560. Using the digital inputs, but no signal, it's dead quiet all the way upto max. volume. Using the analog inputs, but no signal, I get some hiss well past 50% volume, but still no hum.

In the case of the Philips (and Pioneer, and SVS, probably the Yamaha) units the "applied" result of the box's processing is fed only to the headphones "tap" out of the box (wired and wireless), and not on the OUTPUT connector which simply "passes through" the original untouched INPUT analog/digital signal. I would bet lots of money that's how it works.
Are you planning to test how it works? (to see if it really "passes through")

Finally got around to getting the new replacement HD1500U base unit connected to my sources tonight, this time via optical rather than the coax I had been forced to use with the original HD1500. I set up the same "wired" output path from the headphone output jack on the base unit to my DBX EQ, then Stax SRM-T1S amp, then Stax Omega-I headphones, as I use with my Pioneer DIR-SE1000C.

I don't know whether it is the newly available optical connection method this time (thus eliminating the ground/shield connection associated with coax connectors that I had to use last time) or whether it is simply an improvement in the electronics of the HD1500U, but the unacceptable hum I'd had with the original unit is 100% gone. In fact, the HD1500U (connected as I've done, optically) is absolutely 100% dead silent, even at high volumes, with or without the source powered on. Perfectly silent. Fabulous.

Then, as I'd previously noted with the original HD1500, the amplifier in the HD1500U is just as powerful (if not more powerful) as was the amp in the HD1500. Both are much stronger than the amp contained in the 1000C (and MUCH MUCH stronger than the amp contained in the 2000C). Essentially this amp serves as a "preamp" into my SRM-T1S, and I have to be careful to keep it turned down relatively low to simulate "line level" (while for convenience during testing setting it so that I can keep the exact same volume setting on the SRM-T1S as I use with the SE1000C, adjusting the HD1500U volume so that the DB readout on the DBX EQ is what I would expect for the HDTV programs I'm accustomed to watching).

And, the Dolby Headphone processor seems to be just as clean and excellent in the HD1500U as it is in the SE1000C. This was not the case with the original HD1500, but the HD1500U definitely seems to be a much improved unit all around. And now it's essentially identical in sound quality to the SE1000C which was my previous reference.

So on the wired test bench, the HD1500U now passed all of my requirements with flying colors. Much better than the HD1500.


Next, I got to try out the wireless headphones that come with the HD1500U. One ear can says Philips on it and the other can says Cineos. Anyway, they have a very powerful volume control as well as separate bass and treble controls. And I must say, they sound terrific! Very strong volume. You would not think they are wireless, and really outshine the three different Pioneer wireless phones I've heard that come with the 800C, 1000C and 2000C. The Philips is ABSOLUTELY the winner... both in volume and sound quality.

Of course they're closed, dynamic and a bit snug (as I'm used to the open, electrostatic and loose fitting Omega-I, these are certainly quite different) but the ear surround-pads are very comfortable. And they allow no sound from the outside to bleed in, which is another dramatic difference from my Omega-I. Nevertheless I'm sure I could get used to them, if I didn't have my Stax.

As far as sound quality, I went back and forth between the wired and wireless, to get a feel for the differences... and of course there's really no comparison. The Stax phones are so open and airy, with huge dynamic range and precisely defined bass, treble and midrange compared to the Philips. But for wireless much less expensive headphones, the Philips turn out to be the best of its kind that I've heard so far. These ABSOLUTELY beat the Pioneer phones I've heard that come with the 800C, 1000C, and 2000C. The Philips phones are genuinely and absolutely acceptable... if I didn't have the Stax Omega-I or wanted to go wireless.


So, coupled with the electronic improvements in the HD1500U over its HD1500 predecessor, I have decided to definitely keep it and use it. I prefer its front display panel look to that of the 1000C, and I especially like its two digital in/out and two analog in/out connections on the back. I also like the fact that the front panel display changes visibly when you go from DD2.0 to DD5.1, and also shows DTS. Very appealing.

Only problem I ran into... the new remote for some reason can power the base unit off (i.e. set it to "standby") but cannot power it back on! I might be doing something wrong, but how complex could it be? You push the button! And it doesn't work. It only works to make the unit go to sleep, but not to wake it up. I'll pursue this.

All in all... A+++, all around. How lucky and unexpected was the arrival of the HD1500U to replace the "defective" HD1500.


I will next get around to running the optical digital output of the Philips base unit into the optical input on my Pioneer SE1000C, and will confirm that the same Dolby Digital multi-channel lights appear on the Pioneer base unit as when it is connected directly to the digital source. This will confirm that the digital output of the Philips is as I expect... namely just pure digital pass-through, rather than with Dolby Headphone applied in the digital domain.

I'm still of the opinion that the purpose of DH is to produce a 2-channel analog output for headphones, not to put out that 2-channel result in the digital domain. What would be the point? What type of receiver would want 2-channel stereo over its optical input when it could have received the original DD5.1 data over the same optical input?

I don't know whether it is the newly available optical connection method this time (thus eliminating the ground/shield connection associated with coax connectors that I had to use last time) or whether it is simply an improvement in the electronics of the HD1500U, but the unacceptable hum I'd had with the original unit is 100% gone. In fact, the HD1500U (connected as I've done, optically) is absolutely 100% dead silent, even at high volumes, with or without the source powered on. Perfectly silent. Fabulous.
Are you planning to check if the coaxial connection is also hum-free?
Only problem I ran into... the new remote for some reason can power the base unit off (i.e. set it to "standby") but cannot power it back on! I might be doing something wrong, but how complex could it be? You push the button! And it doesn't work. It only works to make the unit go to sleep, but not to wake it up. I'll pursue this.
Have you tried holding down the button for a few seconds?
I'm still of the opinion that the purpose of DH is to produce a 2-channel analog output for headphones, not to put out that 2-channel result in the digital domain. What would be the point? What type of receiver would want 2-channel stereo over its optical input when it could have received the original DD5.1 data over the same optical input?
The point would be to use a different DAC, such as a stand-alone 2-channel DAC, which could be better than the HD1500U's internal DAC and could offer a true line-level analog output, which could then be fed to a stand-alone headphone amp.

(1) Using the coaxial connection, along with my wired DBX/Stax arrangement, I'm afraid the hum is still present with the 1500U. However using the wireless Philips headphones there is zero hum.

Again, this could be due to something in the Philips base unit electronics, or perhaps it's a ground loop coming through the physical coax shield connector and the rest of my equipment (although it's certainly not as strong or intense as usual ground loops).

And, just to reiterate, there is zero hum through the wired DBX/Stax path when I use the optical source into the 1500U.

Anyway, now that there's an optical choice available I would not be using the digital coax, so this is now more of a theoretical issue.


(2) Regarding the remote, thanks to Renglade (who just bought a 1500U from J&R based on my comments) for the secret method I was looking for. Turns out it is not the STANDBY button which turns the unit back on, although it is the button which turns the unit off.

Instead it is the "DH OFF" button!!! Yes, this button inhibits Dolby Headphone when the unit is on (i.e. inhibits DH1/DH2/DH3 and forces digital PCM 2-channel stereo), and apparently it also doubles as the "power ON" button when the unit is in standby state!

Strange, but that's the truth.


(3) I must say, after some more listening I feel the wireless Philips headphones are great. Much much better than the Pioneer phones.

I will next get around to running the optical digital output of the Philips base unit into the optical input on my Pioneer SE1000C, and will confirm that the same Dolby Digital multi-channel lights appear on the Pioneer base unit as when it is connected directly to the digital source. This will confirm that the digital output of the Philips is as I expect... namely just pure digital pass-through, rather than with Dolby Headphone applied in the digital domain.
Have you gotten around to checking this?

Thanks to everyone in this thread -- especially DSperber -- for the tremendously helpful information about dolby headphone options. I tried a Pio DIR800C several months ago, but it seemed too bright for me and I returned it. Since then I have stewing about what to do for DH sound since the "phones surround" option from my AVR is not true DH and is pretty limited in term of listening options.

I was attracted to the new JVC SU-DH1, but was concerned that it was a bit too "lightweight" for my use -- not mobile use but HT and music listening at night. The fact that it's not wireless doesn't bother me and, in fact, the extra cost for wireless solutions such as the Pio and Philips put me off a bit.

I had seen the Philips HD1500 mentioned in a couple of headfi.org forums with not much real info about it. But the very detailed and positive reviews in this thread are just terrific. Based on that I ordered one from jr.com and it is scheduled to arrive on Monday!! :D

I recently bought the Beyer DT 770/Pro 80 cans and like them a lot -- especially their great bass. I am assuming they will pair well with the HD1500 amp for a wired option. I'm also assuming that since they are the 80 ohm model (I can easily drive them to reasonable but not "hearing loss" levels straight from my iPod 5G) that I won't need additional amplification for them. Any thoughts about or experience with this combo would be appreciated.

I'll post my thoughts and impressions about the HD1500 next week after I fire it up and give it a workout. Thanks again!!
-------------------------------------------
Edit: What would be considered a reasonable break-in period for the Philips phones? Also -- I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to headphone amps -- does the amp need a break-in period to sound best with my DT770 Beyer cans - which have already been broken in? Thanks.

Well the more I use this product the better I like it.

I've been using the wireless headphones when I'm across the room at my desk (not seriously watching, but sort of just listening to something... like Bill Maher). The wireless phones give me flexibility and mobility. I still use my DBX/Stax wired method (from the DIR-SE1000C) when I'm seriously watching/listening to something.

Anyway, I was curious to see how long the Philips would take for its batteries to drain down. Probably 7-8 hours. It began to warn me tonight with a multiple-beep in the phones (interrupting the real sound, so you can't mistake its signal) every 10 seconds or so. I then swapped the live 2-battery cartridge out of the phone with the second 2-battery cartridge that had been sitting fully charged in the charger on the base unit for a while, and didn't miss a beat. Very nice of them to have a 2-battery "cartridge" with a fabric strap on it, making it very convenient to pull the whole thing out of the phones or the charger and push it into the 2-battery cartridge receptacle on the phones and the charger.

Also, the wireless sound quality and Dolby Headphone processing is really really good. And this is purely coming from the base unit, with no DBX EQ involved. I have the treble boosted on the phones but not the bass, and it sounded excellent tonight listening to "Las Vegas". Normally NBC-DT audio is lower than the other networks, so I just pushed the volume up a bit on the phones and it sounded excellent! I mean excellent!

In other words, the wired amp on the base unit and the amp in the phones themselves are both MUCH STRONGER than the corresponding amps in the Pioneer equipment (all three models which I've used). And louder/stronger usually means it sounds much better, as you've got plenty of punch and reserve to drive the phones effortlessly. That is not the case with the Pioneers.

Also, the Philips phones have quite large cushions around your ears, and it fits snugly on your head (there is pretty good tension in the plastic headband, and it is closed design (as opposed to the open design of the Stax). So it's a much different listening experience, with no outside sound creeping in and no headphone sound bleeding out. I actually now enjoy both, but am surprisingly impressed with the Philips.

I don't know about "break-in"... I've only used them for about 15 hours now and I really don't expect the sound to change much. I must be getting used to the snugness of the headband, or maybe it's loosening up a bit the more I wear them, but I don't seem to mind them as much as I first did. Of course the Stax is so comfortable and not snug that anything else is tough to get used to, but I guess I am.

All in all, the HD1500U gets my vote for the definite unquestioned undeniable BEST of these wireless Dolby Headphone products. It wins over all three of the Pioneer products in EVERY category... especially sound quality, other than that ground hum when using the wired headphone jack and also using digital coax input, which just may be a quirk in the multiple devices I have electrically connected and the fact that not all of them have a ground pin on their AC plug. As I reported previously, using the optical audio connection there is zero hum from the wired headphone jack. I can't compare my DIR-SE1000C in this case because it does not have a digital coax input option.

A little clarification if you please.

1. The Pioneer sets use Dolby Headphone DSP to achieve a surround sound using a pair of headphones. This thread mentions that the Philips doesn't use an inferior DSP program, but for the life of me I don't understand how that is so. Does the Philips make it seem as though you have 5 speakers using a set of cans?

2. It appears that the Philips cans use RF for transmission as opposed to the IR the Pioneers use. Since IR typically has less range from the base station BUT also far less noise/hiss wouldn't that be preferential for listening?

I bring this up because I can't help but look at the Philips and think "clunky design" and I plan on a purchase within a month or two.

1. The Pioneer sets use Dolby Headphone DSP to achieve a surround sound using a pair of headphones. This thread mentions that the Philips doesn't use an inferior DSP program, but for the life of me I don't understand how that is so. Does the Philips make it seem as though you have 5 speakers using a set of cans?The Philips unit uses the identical Dolby Headphone codec technology as the Pioneer. This is licensed from Dolby by both manufacturers and both products produce the identical decoded results.

In other words, the "surround sensation" through headphones from both is identical... which is to say pretty good. You won't really have the same fully defined front/rear sensation as from true loudspeakers placed around you in a room, and most of the spatial cues are primarily left/right, but there's definitely a front/rear sensation component that absolutely distinguishes the sound from ordinary 2-channel L/R stereo. No question you're hearing multi-channel 5.1. You will definitely think you're inside a 3D sound field.

I simply maintain that the overall sound quality of the Philips headphones and strength of its headphone amp is considerably superior to that of the Pioneers... including all three of the Pioneer headphones I have personally tried.

Of course, from what I've heard and anticipate, the SVS technology I've spoken of many times purports to truly "duplicate" the 360 degree front/rear left/right 3D sound field associated with real 5.1 loudspeakers placed around you. Apparently, you actually think you're listening to these loudspeakers and their physical placement... not to headphones with only two sources of sound.


2. It appears that the Philips cans use RF for transmission as opposed to the IR the Pioneers use. Since IR typically has less range from the base station BUT also far less noise/hiss wouldn't that be preferential for listening?There is ZERO hiss through the Philips headphones, which I believe are themselves digital devices.

I believe the base unit emits a 2-channel PCM stereo digital datastream to the headphones... via RF... of the Dolby Headphone decoded but still digital domain sound. As perfectly silent and noise-free is the original underlying DD5.1 digital datastream, so is the output of the Dolby Headphone decoder and what you will hear on your head. Perfectly silent.

Actually I believe the Pioneer headphones work the same way.

The only D/A conversion is involved with the amplified headphone jack on the front of the Philips and Pioneer base units. Now you're in the analog world and potentially might hear hum or noise... but from the analog amp, not from the underlying DD5.1 or DH-decoded 2-channel digital datastream itself.

My observations with the amps in both base units is that utilizing the optical inputs on both, the D/A conversions is also 100% noise/hum-free. Both units' built-in amps are excellent in this regard.

My only problem came from experimenting using the digital coax into the Philips unit (something which was not possible on my DIR-SE1000C but which is possible on the DIR-SE800C and DIR-SE2000C), where I had what seemed like a ground-loop hum out of my DBX/Stax wired headphone arrangement, most likely caused by my own equipment setup (and the presence or absence of 3-pin grounded A/C power plugs for the various boxes). Consequently, I would not ever use the digital coax... given the optical input alternative... if I wanted to listen using my DBX/Stax wired approach.

Note that even when using the digital coax connection method, the wireless Philips headphones were still 100% noise/hum/hiss-free. It is only from the wired headphone jack that any of this was ever seen.


Go with the Philips HD1500U. You will thank me.

Go with the Philips HD1500U. You will thank me.

Thanks DSperber. As much as I would like to check out the SVS technology, I know it will be out of my price range for a little while anyways being new to market. I honestly was hoping the Pioneer unit would be a slam dunk decision as I have other Pioneer Elite equipment and I like it. So is the Philips HD1500U unit a newer model than the Pioneer SE-DIR2000C? How does the comfort/ergonomics compare?

Thanks DSperber. As much as I would like to check out the SVS technology, I know it will be out of my price range for a little while anyways being new to market.The much more modestly priced Yamaha YSV-1 (still not available for purchase yet, but rumored to be about $500 as compared to the SVS Realiser 6.1 at $3K or so) might be just as useful in accomplishing the goal. Yamaha has licensed the SVS technology from Smyth and put it in a much leaner product... while still delivering the same sound results.


I honestly was hoping the Pioneer unit would be a slam dunk decision as I have other Pioneer Elite equipment and I like it.Well Pioneer makes good products all around. There's nothing wrong with their three Dolby Headphone models... but having tried all three and the Philips as well, I feel the Philips HD1500U to be superior.


So is the Philips HD1500U unit a newer model than the Pioneer SE-DIR2000C? How does the comfort/ergonomics compare?To be honest I don't know about this relationship. Philips doesn't make the product at all any longer, so you'd better get yours brand new from J&R before they disappear.

I had tried and returned the 2000C back in August 2005, so it was certainly out then. I have no idea when Philips upgraded the original HD1500 into the HD1500U.

But newer isn't the key factor here. Functionality and performance is. And I was very very disappointed with what Pioneer had done with the base unit amp for the wired headphone jack in the 2000C model. They had really cheapened its sound, reduced its power output, etc. Nothing like the gorgeous sounding amp in the 1000C (which I have and still use with my DBX/Stax wired setup), and in my opinion not even as good as the amp in the 800C. I tried the 2000C out for a few days and then returned it.

As far as the wireless headphones that come with all four products, I feel the Philips to absolutely be the best sounding. They're a bit snugger than the Pioneers, but the large cups that go around the ears make them very closed sounding. You can't hear anything from the outside, and the outside can't hear you. And snug as they are (they loosen a bit with use) they're very comfortable, and will not fall off as you move your head around.

The Philips have a very conveniently located pair of bass and treble "boost" buttons on the right headphone outer shell (which is also where the power on/off button lives) that you will be able to find by feel without looking. Same with the volume control, which is a very nice spring-loaded push-up/push-down dial (with a raised tongue in the center so that you can feel it or push it with your fingernail) that has a central return position when you release it. It is a very sensitive control (for the powerful amp in the phones) and works beautifully.

All in all the Philips product is superior to all of the Pioneers, in every way. Spend the $249 (ridiculously low, from J&R) and be done with it. Remember... "they don't make it any more".

I'll post my thoughts and impressions about the HD1500 next week after I fire it up and give it a workout.Well, what's you reaction?

Did you connect your source to the 1500U base unit via optical or digital coax?

Are you using wired (with your own phones) or wireless (with the Philips phones)?

Comments? Adequacy of amplification, on base unit and/or phones? Tonal quality? Noise or hum or hiss or anything problematic?

Are you using DH2 as a general "good for everything" setting?

Well, what's you reaction?Sorry I have been offline on this thread for a while. Combo of travelling and too many things to do. Unfortunately I can't tell you my reaction because when I opened the box last week it DID NOT contain a 1500U but a 1500 -- which I definitely do NOT want. :( :mad:

The product description on the jr.com web site had two key features that told me I was ordering a 1500U -- optical input and a remote. But the box contained a pure 1500 and jr doesn't have any 1500U's available -- see below.

I just got off the phone with jr's customer service and their sales department. I am getting a full credit and they are paying the return shipping -- which of course they should since their web site has the wrong description.

After I arranged that with cust service I talked to the sales department and asked them to see IF they had any 1500U in stock. I was hoping that they had a supply of both 1500's and 1500U's and I could just exchange it. No dice -- he called "the store" and had them look at the feature description on the box to see if it listed optical input and the IR remote -- and it DID NOT. Therefore, the sales department concludes that they don't have the 15000U -- just the 1500. So I'm back to square 1 for finding a 1500U. :(

I like jr and will continue to be a customer, but be aware that if you order the Philips HD1500 from them that's what you'll get -- a 1500 -- even though the product description is for the 1500U.

BTW -- FWIW the sales guy said that the HD1500 units they have are the last of their stock -- a discontinued item -- and they have 6 left.

After I arranged that with cust service I talked to the sales department and asked them to see IF they had any 1500U in stock. I was hoping that they had a supply of both 1500's and 1500U's and I could just exchange it. No dice -- he called "the store" and had them look at the feature description on the box to see if it listed optical input and the IR remote -- and it DID NOT. Therefore, the sales department concludes that they don't have the 15000U -- just the 1500. So I'm back to square 1 for finding a 1500U.Well that's certainly unfortunate.

They didn't even know that they'd shipped me a 1500U when I returned my original 1500 for a replacement, completely unaware that there even was such a beast as the 1500U. She checked the UPC code and it was the same on both boxes. She had no idea how they even acquired it.

So I guess I have to consider myself very lucky to have latched onto one, by sheer chance.

Sorry for your experience.

The product description on the jr.com web site had two key features that told me I was ordering a 1500U -- optical input and a remote. But the box contained a pure 1500 and jr doesn't have any 1500U's available -- see below.

I just got off the phone with jr's customer service and their sales department. I am getting a full credit and they are paying the return shipping -- which of course they should since their web site has the wrong description.

After I arranged that with cust service I talked to the sales department and asked them to see IF they had any 1500U in stock. I was hoping that they had a supply of both 1500's and 1500U's and I could just exchange it. No dice -- he called "the store" and had them look at the feature description on the box to see if it listed optical input and the IR remote -- and it DID NOT. Therefore, the sales department concludes that they don't have the 15000U -- just the 1500. So I'm back to square 1 for finding a 1500U. :(In a bizarre continuation to this story, just two days ago (3/22) I received a PM from another AVS member in Santa Clarita CA who said his recently ordered 1500U (not 1500... but a real 1500U!) had just arrived from J&R and he was looking forward to this weekend to begin experimenting with it.

This, of course, is in complete contradiction to what J&R told you... that they had NO 1500U boxes in stock. Now I don't know when Santa Clarita's order was placed but it certainly was most likely within the past week.

Hard to believe, and it's unfortunate that you weren't as lucky as I was (who didn't even know a 1500U version existed when I returned my 1500 for a replacement and was sent a 1500U as that replacement), or as Santa Clarita just was this week.

Very odd. Not like J&R to have such a mixup.

In a bizarre continuation to this story, just two days ago (3/22) I received a PM from another AVS member in Santa Clarita CA who said his recently ordered 1500U (not 1500... but a real 1500U!) had just arrived from J&R and he was looking forward to this weekend to begin experimenting with it.

This, of course, is in complete contradiction to what J&R told you... that they had NO 1500U boxes in stock. Now I don't know when Santa Clarita's order was placed but it certainly was most likely within the past week.

Hard to believe, and it's unfortunate that you weren't as lucky as I was (who didn't even know a 1500U version existed when I returned my 1500 for a replacement and was sent a 1500U as that replacement), or as Santa Clarita just was this week.

Very odd. Not like J&R to have such a mixup.
Thanks very much for that update. Yeah, you are right, it does seem bizarre. Guess I'll call J&R and try again. Could you ask the Santa Clarita member to PM me so I can correspond with him and get some more insight into how he managed to get a 1500U? Thanks again.

Thanks very much for that update. Yeah, you are right, it does seem bizarre. Guess I'll call J&R and try again. Could you ask the Santa Clarita member to PM me so I can correspond with him and get some more insight into how he managed to get a 1500U? Thanks again.

I'm the guy from Santa Clarita, CA who ended up with a 1500U from J&R. I do 90% of my viewing in the evening with my Sennheiser HD500's after the family has gone to bed. So a standalone Dolby Headphone amp has interested me for a while. After reading the first several pages of this thread I ordered the Pioneer SE-DIR800C. While I was waiting for the Pioneer to arrive I continued to read the thread. On 3-9-07, I read DSperber's review of the 1500U. I immediately placed an online order at J&R even though they listed the model number as the 1500. J&R filled and shipped the order on 3-13. When it arrived two days later I was very excited to find out that it was indeed the 1500U, just as DSperber had experienced returning his 1500 for an exchange. The box is clearly marked 1500U and the front has an orange sticker on it that states, "UPGRADE VERSION". You might just want to call J&R one more time and see what kind of an answer you get from a different sales rep.

By the way, that Pioneer SE-DIR800C I ordered came at the same time on the same UPS truck as the 1500U. I'm so impressed with the 1500U that the Pioneer unit hasn't even been removed from the shipping box.

I'm the guy from Santa Clarita, CA who ended up with a 1500U from J&R. I do 90% of my viewing in the evening with my Sennheiser HD500's after the family has gone to bed. So a standalone Dolby Headphone amp has interested me for a while. After reading the first several pages of this thread I ordered the Pioneer SE-DIR800C. While I was waiting for the Pioneer to arrive I continued to read the thread. On 3-9-07, I read DSperber's review of the 1500U. I immediately placed an online order at J&R even though they listed the model number as the 1500. J&R filled and shipped the order on 3-13. When it arrived two days later I was very excited to find out that it was indeed the 1500U, just as DSperber had experienced returning his 1500 for an exchange. The box is clearly marked 1500U and the front has an orange sticker on it that states, "UPGRADE VERSION". You might just want to call J&R one more time and see what kind of an answer you get from a different sales rep.

By the way, that Pioneer SE-DIR800C I ordered came at the same time on the same UPS truck as the 1500U. I'm so impressed with the 1500U that the Pioneer unit hasn't even been removed from the shipping box.Thanks much for that info. I will try to call J&R tomorrow, and armed with the specific info you have provided, I should get better results. Unfortunately I am on the road right now working at a client site on a HOT project with many meetings and deliverables due in the next 2 days, so don't have much control over my daytime schedule, but I'll have to fit it in somehow. Thanks again.

Thanks much for that info. I will try to call J&R tomorrow, and armed with the specific info you have provided, I should get better results. Unfortunately I am on the road right now working at a client site on a HOT project with many meetings and deliverables due in the next 2 days, so don't have much control over my daytime schedule, but I'll have to fit it in somehow. Thanks again.

Interested to find out if you ever got around to calling J&R again.

after alot of research and many questions that dsperber helped me with i can provide the following info. this unit does exist and is sold in europe as model sbc hd1500u/00. i was all set to buy this via a friend over there and found out the following. it's the same as the american version whose model # ends in /37 (which dsperber has) except for one critical thing-- the frequency it transmits at. the american transmits at 917 mHz and the european at 863-864 mhz. fcc has strict regulations regarding wireless devices and their frequencies. apparently 917 was assigned to this type of device. im not sure what transmits in the us over the 863-864 frequency however the use of the european unit is probably illegal here and according to the guy i talked to in europe probably wouldnt make it through customs. also the european unit is powered by 230v 50 vs us 110v 60 but this could be easily dealt with by purchasing an inexpensive step up transformer. i really thought i had my hands on this and am very disappointed that the frequency issue will nix the deal. so i'm back to square 1 trying to find a good wireless surround headphone. i guess it comes down to the pioneer se-dir800c or se-dir2000c although dsperber and others stated that the philips blew them away or the high end akg hearo999's which are pricey and its unclear what they decode.

Been a long time Pioneer DIR1000c user. Very happy indeed. Now looking at purchasing the DIR2000c. Can someone confirm for me.... are all the Pioneer wireless headphones interchangeable with the base stations???

Been a long time Pioneer DIR1000c user. Very happy indeed. Now looking at purchasing the DIR2000c. Can someone confirm for me.... are all the Pioneer wireless headphones interchangeable with the base stations???Yes I believe they are. They're all infrared technology to mate with the infrared base unit transmitter.

Interestingly, Audiocubes (which sells both the 800C and 2000C) lists all the separate additional headphones as "only for...", but the writeup for the 800 headphones says they can be used for the 800, 1000 and 2000. In contrast the writeup for the 2000 headphones says they require the 2000 base unit.

I'm not convinced of any limitations. I do know for a fact that the 1000 headphones can be used on the 800.

Hey DSperber,

Thanks for your reply. I saw that at Audiocubes, too. That's what was making me wonder. I think I'll go ahead and pull the trigger then. I think it's interesting how close all the prices are between the 800c and 2000c. And I'll tell you this much, as soon as I buy something, there surely will be a newer model released shortly.

I also have been in the market for a good headphone solution to viewing movies/games. I would prefer it to be wireless but am after the best possible sound with a good combination of bass and clarity. I have considered the 2000c from Pioneer to be one of the best options out there but Audio-Technica has always been a strong name in audio components and the ATH-DCL3000 seems to be at least as good as the 2000c if not better.

I am not sure if Audio-Technica sells the ATH-DCL3000 in the US but I have a link to product page of the ATH-DCL3000 if anyone here can decipher the Japanese on that page.


One thing I did notice though is that these use the Dolby Headphone technology as the icon of that technology is on the top portion of the page along with DD/DTS/DDPII. These are probably the most expensive wireless headphones on the market with optional headsets retailing for about $275 each. Audio-technica has never been cheap option in terms of cost but in more cases then not they do live up to there claims.

If anyone can use that product page to give more info on these headphones I would really appreciate it.

Has anyone tried the Sennheiser RS130 or RS140 headphones? How do they compare to the others mentioned in this thread?

Has anyone tried the Sennheiser RS130 or RS140 headphones? How do they compare to the others mentioned in this thread?Not comparable. The Senns are wireless but not Dolby and the primary feature of the cans discussed in this thread is their performance as Dolby Headphones (or at least some kind of simulated multi-channel output). It would be and "apples & oranges" comparison.

I'd recommend asking for opinions about the Senns in a more general wireless headphone thread or going to a headphone forum such as www.headfi.org.

These two Senns have SRS Headphone Virtual Surround technology in them, so I thought it would be appropriate to ask for a comparison here.

After doing more research, I see that the Sennheisers will only accept 2 channel audio sources and not 5.1 digital sources. So nevermind.

how much are you willing to spend tiptongrange? key features you should be considering are that the unit has dolby headphone technology. the icon for this is a headphone around the dolby icon. you can go to dolbys website and read about it. then you want it to be able to decode the popular formats ie dolby 5.1, dolby surround, dts etc. the next is the mode of transmission. infared transmitters require direct line from source to headphone and have limited range. uhf transmitters send a radio signal and have a broader range and you dont have to be in direct line of the transmitter. and the last is a remote to easily switch between listening options which your transmitter may provide for instance the effects for a small room, large room, stadium etc or the source since many units can receive signals from your tv, your stereo etc and have multiple inputs and outputs on the back of the transmitter. also does the unit have a headphone jack for a wired connection? do your homework before you buy.

A very interesting and great topic.

I purchased the pioneer 800's over a year ago, and the wireless headphones just broke on me. As other have mentioned, they broke without any abuse. I didn't drop it or abuse it, just simply grabbing both can with my hands in the act of taking it off, and then it snapped on the left side, right above the cans. Upon further investigation after taking them apart, they are only held together at the top of the cans by a small 'U' shaped piece of plastic. Very cheap.

Anyway after reading all the posts, and much information and reviews by DSperber, of which is very much appreciated, i'm going to now switch over to wired headphones. With that in mind i'm also going to buy a portable amp to help drive the wired headphones.

My question to DSperber is: with your experience, how is the jack on the Pioneer 800C's, for adding a wired headphone, fair in sound quality? Keeping in mind i'll be using an external amp with it.


Thanks...

foe-hammer my philips 1500's lasted about 2 weeks and then i got a 2nd set which lasted one week before breaking right where your pioneers failed. for such a great sounding set of cans, the construction and design flaws are very disappointing. you might consider earbuds as opposed to headphones. a site which carries high end earbuds is http://www.earphonesolutions.com. i have on order the westone 3 but shure and other companies make fine ones according to your budget. i wont need a preamp with these and will use the headphone jack from my phillips 1500 wireless system to process the dolby headphone surround sound technology as i will use these for both music and movies. this being the case, when watching a movie, i can relax and lie down without having bulky cans over my ears and still enjoying the amazing sound they produce.

Anyway after reading all the posts, and much information and reviews by DSperber, of which is very much appreciated, i'm going to now switch over to wired headphones. With that in mind i'm also going to buy a portable amp to help drive the wired headphones.

My question to DSperber is: with your experience, how is the jack on the Pioneer 800C's, for adding a wired headphone, fair in sound quality? Keeping in mind i'll be using an external amp with it.This is all quite subjective and a matter of personal taste, of course, but I think think the headphone jack and built-in amp on the 800C is probably the same as that on the 1000C that I've been using for many years now.

As you know from my comments throughout this thread, I use my 1000C's amp more as a "preamp", feeding its L/R-stereo analog output into my DBX 14/10 EQ's line inputs, and then the line output of my 14/10 to the line input of my Stax SRM-T1S headphone amp, to which my Stax Omega-1 headphones are connected. I am indeed fortunate to have this outboard external analog equipment to listen through, but the quality of the 1000C's built-in amp and headphone jack is apparently excellent (or at least superbly adequate).

I have a friend who bought an 800C to whom I gave my old Stax headphone amp (can't remember the model, but it was an early 90's solid-state predecessor to my SRM-T1S) and some old Stax headphones (could have been a Signature, or early Lambda) to use with the 800C. No EQ involved. She's quite satisfied (though probably not the true audiophile who might be picky) and always watches her HDTV through these headphones. I've listened myself, and agree that even without any EQ the whole setup is perfectly acceptable. Again, the headphone amp/jack on the 800C is perfectly adequate to be used as a good-quality preamp into a headphone amp, as long as the volume control is dialed back to a "line level" output setting which does not over-drive the line-input of your headphone amp.

I believe it is this "75% output" or so level setting on the 800C/1000C built-in headphone amp, so that it really is functioning like a preamp to the headphone amp itself, which makes this arrangement work so well together... at least it does for me.

But I can't emphasize enough just how important the addition of EQ "tone control" is to my own personal listening pleasure with this setup. The DBX 14/10 EQ is remarkable (as would my other DBX 10/20 be just as well, if I didn't also have a 14/10) in producing the warm analog "equalized" result that I've been used to ever since I started listening to high quality sound systems, loudspeaker or headphone (where EVERYTHING can be heard).

Imagine what car radio/CD would sound like if you didn't have bass/treble/mid adjustability to compensate for your car's acoustics or make your car's sound system sound the way you like, or what CD audio sounds like if you just plug headphones directly into your CD player and listen to the raw sound track? Every recording is tonally different and "tone control" (i.e. EQ equalization) is what compensates for that to suit your own personal preferences throughout the sound spectrum... depending on the particular track you are listening to.

I know it's likely impossible for you to find a DBX 14/10 or 10/20 out there somewhere to buy, but the use of some kind of tone control for what reaches your headphone amp (if it can be done) will really make an amazing difference.

Again, the headphone amp/jack on the 800C is perfectly adequate to be used as a good-quality preamp into a headphone amp, as long as the volume control is dialed back to a "line level" output setting which does not over-drive the line-input of your headphone amp.

I believe it is this "75% output" or so level setting on the 800C/1000C built-in headphone amp, so that it really is functioning like a preamp to the headphone amp itself, which makes this arrangement work so well together... at least it does for me.
In my experience with the 800C, the "PHONES LEVEL" control for the wired output should be at the 1 o'clock position or lower, i.e., less than 60% of the way from MIN to MAX. Otherwise, there can be some distortion during loud passages, especially noticeable in the low frequencies. This distortion is generated by the 800C itself, not because it is overdriving the downstream amp. I ran into the same issue with the JVC SU-DH1, so it might be common to all Dolby Headphone processors.

In my experience with the 800C, the "PHONES LEVEL" control for the wired output should be at the 1 o'clock position or lower, i.e., less than 60% of the way from MIN to MAX. Otherwise, there can be some distortion during loud passages, especially noticeable in the low frequencies. This distortion is generated by the 800C itself, not because it is overdriving the downstream amp. I ran into the same issue with the JVC SU-DH1, so it might be common to all Dolby Headphone processors.Certainly could be possible... I don't think there's a subjective way of determining the "correct" setting. Probably only a volt-meter measurement could provide the setting which most closely matches normal non-amplified line-level outputs from a preamp. And I'm really just assuming the 1000C and 800C amplifiers are the same, which may not be a correct assumption.

My own 1000C setting is at around 2 o'clock, at about the 67% position. That's just the position I've decided provides distortion-free results at my fairly loud listening level, with my DBX 14/10 EQ adjustments (which add some frequency-specific gain) and my zero-distortion SRM-T1S set at about 1:30. I actually use the db/SPL digital meter on the EQ (which is influenced by the line-input level coming from the headphone-jack output on the 1000C, coupled with the gain from the EQ settings) to decide where to set the 1000C (with a "relatively constant" known program source as my reference).

But you're right in that the goal is to produce no distortion in what you hear, no matter how all of the devices in the linkage are set.

Certainly could be possible... I don't think there's a subjective way of determining the "correct" setting. Probably only a volt-meter measurement could provide the setting which most closely matches normal non-amplified line-level outputs from a preamp. And I'm really just assuming the 1000C and 800C amplifiers are the same, which may not be a correct assumption.
The distortion that I mentioned can happen even when the voltage is at or below normal line-level. Even if you added a voltage attenuator between the 800C and the downstream amp, the distortion would still be there. I first noticed the distortion while watching the opening scene of Star Wars Episode 2. When the ship flies by, the distortion can be very noticeable, and I have used this scene to subjectively determine what volume setting to use. I suppose that the distortion could be measured objectively, but I have not bothered to do so.

Thanks for the reply DSperber and Ken007.

DSperber,

The only thing i don't like about the 800C's wired jack is it being the small 3.5mm. Seems very flimsy, and could break very easily. I'd much rather have the larger 1/4" jack, like the 1000's have.

Plus, does the amp in the receiver really matter if a portable amp is being connected to it?

What you have said about getting an EQ has perked my interest. I'll look into them further.

Ken007,

That sucks on the philip wireless headphones being cheap as well. But at least it forces us to go the better wired headphone route. ;)

Those ear buds look pretty nice, but i'm pretty much sold on the Beyerdynamic DT-770/80 headphones. They seem to be the perfect headphones for gaming and movie watching.

And Erik, thanks for the input on the 800c's receivers volume level.

Another option to consider is the AKG Hearo 999. It has digital inputs, Burr Brown components, and the transmitter is also a headphone amp.

HeadRoom Review (http://www.headphone.com/products/headphones/wireless/akg-hearo-999-audiosphere-ii.php)
Amazon review (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007N5Q5O?smid=A3ET1CHCB2RN4K&tag=dealtime-ce-feed-20&linkCode=asn)

Also, does anyone know how the AKG Hearo 787 compares to the 999? They are not available in the US yet. But if I were to have it shipped here, could I use a standard AC adapter from Radio Shack?

AKG Hearo 787 (http://www.akg.com/personal/cproducts/powerslave,id,907,nodeid,11,pcategory,2,_language,EN)
Ciao! Hearo 787 (http://www.ciao.co.uk/AKG_Hearo_787_SURROUND__6417197)

the akg hearo 999's are available in the us. im not sure how they are since they transmit on the 864 Mhz bandwidth. they are very well made but also pricey and the only thing negative about them is that they dont come with a remote control. i researched the different hearos awhile back and these were clearly the ones to get.

Anyone using the Pioneers with a plasma display? Do they work in lieu of the IR interference?

I've been invited to visit Smyth on Saturday afternoon, for a "private demonstration" of their SVS product. I guess they really are nearing availability.

They're exhibiting at the Head-Fi show in Ft. Lauderdale at the beginning of May and maybe I'm a guinea pig for their presentation.

Whatever, this is FABULOUSLY EXCITING!

I've been invited to visit Smyth on Saturday afternoon, for a "private demonstration" of their SVS product. I guess they really are nearing availability.

They're exhibiting at the Head-Fi show in Ft. Lauderdale at the beginning of May and maybe I'm a guinea pig for their presentation.

Whatever, this is FABULOUSLY EXCITING!Very cool. :cool: Looking forward to hearing all about your experience.

Please see this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13449341&postcount=1) for discussion of my firsthand, personal hands-on demonstration of Smyth "SVS Realiser" at the Smyth facility.

Posted some links for Head-Fi Forum thread and video of visitors to the Smyth demo at the CanJam show this past weekend.

Go to this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13819423&postcount=10) for details.

A few months ago I packed up my Philips HD1500U, as I just found myself never listening to anything through its wireless headphones. If I watched TV and listened, it was always through my Stax headphones via Pioneer DIR-SE1000C and DBX 14/10 EQ.

Also, because I had to connect the 1500U via digital coax (rather than optical) which imputed a low-level hum (just because of my whole system setup, I'm sure)... something that did not occur when I connected it via optical for experimentation... I had a natural tendency not to want to use it.

So instead of leaving it on the floor, unused but taking up space, I put it back in the box.

Anyway, I've now taken it back out and installed it in a whole new environment... as a very nice audio component in my new HD-enabled computer, to enhance my HD-watching experience while I work.

The 4GB E6850 Core2 computer (Supermicro C2SBX X38-chipset mobo, running WinXP Pro) has two monitors, one a 21" IBM P275 CRT, and the second an Eizo HD2441W (24" 16x9 LCD, which has two HDMI inputs as well as DVI and VGA, all of which are selectable as well as 2-at-a-time usable in monitor-provided PIP mode). The monitors are supported by an ATI HD3850 512MB video card, as well as an ATI TV Wonder 650 PCI TV card (with built-in ATSC tuner). The Supermciro C2SBX has a built-in RealTek HD Audio chip that supports 7.1 sound, and which comes with software that provides a 10-band graphic EQ (instead of the typical simple bass/treble).

For TV watching through the TV Wonder 650 PCI, I use two different DVR-like software products: (1) ATI's Catalyst Media Center 1.0, and (2) Snapstream's BeyondTV 4.8.1. Both products support direct S-video external input as well as ATSC OTA tuning (facilitating recording/playback of the digital TS stream a la DVR).

I feed the DVI input of the Eizo from one output of the HD3850 (the other output goes to the P275).

I feed the S-video input of the TV Wonder 650 PCI from the S-video output my DirectTV receiver (as well as from my S-VHS VCR and ED-Beta VCR).

The ATSC tuner of the TV Wonder 650 PCI is fed from an OTA roof antenna (which is split, to also feed the ATSC tuner input of a JVC DT100U D-VHS VCR). I feed one HDMI input of the Eizo from the HDMI output of the JVC DT100U D-VHS VCR.

So the Eizo HDMI input (displayed as full 1920x1080 1080p, or hardware PIP on the Windows desktop) comes directly from the DT100U D-VHS VCR, and "ordinary" TV-watching (S-video from DirectTV or VCR's, and ATSC OTA channels) is handled by the TV Wonder 650 and either Catalyst Media Center or BeyondTV as Windows TV apps.

And, I feed the digital audio optical output of the DT100U to the optical input of the Philips 1500U. I have the L/R-stereo "processed" headphone output of the 1500U going to the line input of the RealTek sound chip, facilitating 2-channel stereo playback through my computer sound system (which is a no-longer-made but fantastic Altec Lansing 641 4.1 system) if I want to. Or, I can listen to DD5.1 using Dolby Headphone (DH2) through the wireless Philips headphones.

So whenever I'm watching HD content on the Eizo via the DT100U (either OTA ATSC, or D-VHS tapes containing offloaded HD content recorded via 1394 from my TWC Motorola 3416 DVR), I can listen to the DD5.1/2.0 digital audio either through the Philips headphones or through my computer's excellent 4.1 sound system fed from the 2-channel analog Philips headphone-output (as a "preamp" to my computer's RealTek sound chip line-in, just as I use the DIR-SE1000C in my Stax/DBX setup).

Sounds fabulous! And amazingly, no lip-sync problem between audio and video!


NOTE: if you are willing to spend the money, the video quality of the Eizo HD2441W LCD monitor is absolutely remarkable!

Whether it's running in (a) "full-screen" HDCP-compliant 1080p-capable HDMI mode 1920x1080 with thin black bars at top and bottom, or (b) Windows desktop mode 1920x1200 allowing watching of the HDMI input via monitor-provided PIP, the TV picture quality is simply stunning!

I've calibrated it with the Eye-One Display2 product (to a 9300K color point, to match the color of my 9300K-calibrated P275), turned off its "auto-dim" feature and turned on its Contrast Enhance feature.

IT LOOKS AMAZING!! In HD mode, I will put it up against my Sony 34XBR960.

Anyway, I'm now very very happy to be getting daily use out of my Philips 1500U on my new second HDTV setup... on my computer.

I've calibrated it with the Eye-One Display2 product (to a 9300K color point, to match the color of my 9300K-calibrated P275)

Uhh - why you want to calibrate to 9300K instead of 6500K???

Uhh - why you want to calibrate to 9300K instead of 6500K???Well, admittedly I'm not an expert on this subject.

However installing the "drivers" provided by IBM with the P275 (as well as with my previous P70, P92 and P96 monitors) set the color management profile for the display to a set of values that corresponded to 9300K. This is also the default setting of the monitor itself, when you push the "reset" button. Obviously IBM wants you to look at their P275 calibrated to 9300K.

I have grown very accustomed to this "bluish" (i.e. distinctly non-reddish) color on all of the CRT monitors I've used over the past 13 years. Gray is true gray, red is pure red, yellow is absolute yellow, green is genuine green, blue is unadulterated blue, and white is white... pure and absolute white. There is no "reddish tint" that I find so unpleasant when I look at skin tone in pictures, which is very very obvious if I adjust to a lower temperature than 9300K.

So, given that that my two monitors (P275 CRT and Eizo HD2441W LCD) are side-by-side, I wanted to have no distractions of different color tones on the two monitors. My Windows desktop is a custom gray color (160,0,57) and I wanted the desktop appearance on both monitors to look identical.

Hence my adjustment of the Eizo to the same 9300K as the P275... and the result is what I'm looking for, the very same familiar "pure colors" on both monitors. At least, they look "pure" to me... probably because I'm so used to it. I've even adjusted the brightness on the Eizo to produce the same apparent desktop gray as appears on the P275, because that's what looks right to me.


Note: I have a similar preference for "bluish" rather than "reddish" on my Sony 34XBR960 HDTV, probably because of what I've gotten used to on my computer screens over the years.

While others tout particular user menu and service menu settings that definitely produce a somewhat "warmer" temperature color palette (especially when looking at skin tones), I absolutely prefer a "cooler" coloration.

So my own user and service menu settings "tilt" toward a more-blue and less-red result. And I feel it to be perfect for my tastes... just as with my computer monitors.

I would strongly suggest to use 6500K especially if you watch video or work on photos/video - otherwise you images/video will look totally different on other PCs or when printed.
And dont use 6500K preset on monitor - even on professional CRT monitors it was never totally right out of the box (thats why they come with bundled spectroradiometers).

P.S. I'm myself still using at home professional 20" CRT calibrated with EyeOne spectroradiometer, since its impossible to buy good LCD monitor that could be calibrated to 6500K without cost under $3000-4000 for 20"-24" image size.

I second post #153 and ask about the the Pioneer SE-DIR800C suffering interference from a Plasma. I have a 50" Panasonic Monitor. Is it just a case of placing the base a bit away from the TV? How far? Placing it below the TV with some wood (a shelve 2.5 inches thick) between them should avoid the matter?

Thanks a lot.

I second post #153 and ask about the the Pioneer SE-DIR800C suffering interference from a Plasma. I have a 50" Panasonic Monitor. Is it just a case of placing the base a bit away from the TV? How far? Placing it below the TV with some wood (a shelve 2.5 inches thick) between them should avoid the matter?

Thanks a lot.

I've my SE-DIR800c set right below my Panasonic 37" Plasma (37PX60U). No interference what so ever.

Got an email from Smyth today...

They say "it's ready", and am I still interested in getting serial #0001?

Can you say EXCITED???

Please see my new thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1136269).

Also, Smyth is going to be demonstrating at CanJam 2009 (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f129/can-jam-2009-date-location-announcement-396027/) a the LAX Hilton Hotel on May 30-31.

THE UNIT IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR IMMEDIATE RETAIL PURCHASE AND SHIPPING.

Hi Folks I have broken my Headphones for the 800C. I am looking for a set to replace it. Any suggetions the pioneer SE-DHP2000 headphone is no longer for sale on Audiocubes. How about a wired solution as I really don't wanna get a replacement 800 unit.

So has anyone tried these - here in China they cost a little more than the DIR800 and DIR2000 - only bummer is that they work on 110V so need an ugly converter...

Anyway would they be worth the trouble or are there much better ones out there now???

So has anyone tried these - here in China they cost a little more than the DIR800 and DIR2000 - only bummer is that they work on 110V so need an ugly converter...

Anyway would they be worth the trouble or are there much better ones out there now???Hadn't known about these before now.

For one, it looks like they've eliminated the built-in powered amp and wired headphone output. Unless I'm not seeing the descriptions and pictures correctly, it looks like the "non-wireless processed output" is now limited to digital form, in optical-only! So presumably you then connect the optical output to your receiver or to some external DAC, and then eventually to your headphone amp/phones... if you don't want to just use the included wireless headphones.

Actually, building it for the US market directly, with it configured for 110V (instead being intended for the Japanese market with 100V, requiring Audiocubes to also include a free 100->110 converter as part of the package when I bought my DIR-SE1000C from them many years ago) is probably a good thing. The same was true with the similar Philips 1500U that I bought many years ago... with the US 110V market in mind as the way the unit came built.


Anyway, I must confess I have "moved WAY beyond" Dolby Headphone, from any manufacturer. To be honest, I used to think this was "terrific" and "a listening pleasure"... and I'm sure it must have been, years ago. Certainly I must have, since I started this thread myself!

However after waiting since 2004 for the "holy grail" of headphone-based (wired, not wireless, and based on high-quality electrostatic wired [Stax] amp/heaphones to deliver the best results... though other choices will also work), for more than a year now I have been using the Smyth Realiser A8 now available from Smyth-Research (http://www.smyth-research.com/).

There's simply no comparison. The Realiser is not based on Dolby Headphone, and does not accept encoded optical/coax digital input. It is based on a revolutionary technology named "Smyth Virtual Surround", developed by the same guy who developed the DTS codec.

Instead, it accepts pre-decoded (from a receiver, typically) preamp-level discrete analog inputs (for up to 8 channels, i.e. 2.0, 5.1 or 7.1, typically), converts the analog to digital, and then processes it digitally. The processed output is either (a) 2-channel stereo analog preamp-level output intended for delivery to a headphone amp, or (b) optical version of the processed output still in digital form intended for delivery to an outboard DAC and then on to your amp/headphones.

It is not an off-the-shelf "virtual surround simulator". Instead, it attempts to reproduce actual listening environments... that you visit with your own ears and perform microphone-based calibration measurements in. In other words, you go to a high-end audio studio with fantastic real loudspeakers and electronics and ambient environment. You sit in the sweet-spot with two calibration microphones inserted in your ears and the Realiser runs sweep signals through all the speakers individually, picking up through the two microphones in your ears exactly how YOU AND YOUR OWN EARS actually hear those loudspeakers in that room.

The Realiser processes those measurements and records them, as a "PRIR file" either in the RAM of the unit or on an SD flash card for backup. This file represents "how that room and everything about its electronics and acoustics actually sounds when heard by your own ears and ear canal, and skull, and brain, etc.,... by the two microphones inserted into your ears during the calibration process".

A second one-time measurement of your own [Stax] amp/headphone capabilities is similarly measured, calibrated and stored (this time as a "HPEQ" file), again based on using the two calibration microphones inserted into your ears. Essentially this measures how these particular headphones and amp sound to YOUR EARS, based on test sweep signals sent to the headphones which you've got on while also having the microphones inserted in your ears.

The combined result, of PRIR file (for the particular listening environment, as heard by YOUR ears) and the HPEQ file (for the particular headphone/amp you use to listen through, as heard by YOUR ears) is used to process source signals "in reverse" during playback of any multi-channel source through the Realiser and out to the headphones.

The effect is to DUPLICATE the precise sound (including amazingly identical duplication of the directionality, both horizontal and vertical, of the "virtual speakers") as heard through your headphones. The tonal and directional equivalence of what you hear through the headphone/amp and what you would have heard had that source been playing in the originally measured listening environment is truly stunning. Amazing. You would not believe it if you didn't experience it for yourself.

So, in summary regarding the Realiser... it is NOT Dolby Headphone. It is NOT meant to "simulate surround sound". It is meant to DUPLICATE A GIVEN LISTENING ENVIRONMENT when playing back any multi-channel source input. You must physically go to that listening room order to take an actual audio measurement (with two microphones inserted into your own ears in that listening environment) in order to "sonically capture in a digital photograph called a PRIR file" precisely how that room's gestalt sounded to YOUR OWN EARS. And then that listening environment will be duplicated when using that PRIR (and HPEQ for your own headphone/amp) to play back any multi-channel source input through the Realiser.

You obviously cannot "share" a PRIR or HPEQ with others, since it is 100% your own personalized measurement (since it was based on how YOUR ears heard test signals). However for YOU alone, it provides unbelievably accurate duplication of true loudspeakers... in that room, placed where they were, with carpet/wood/baffles on floor, walls and ceiling, through whatever electronics and loudspeakers were actually there when the "calibration" was taken.

You can obviously build a "library" of assorted listening environment, going to each one and taking a "calibration" of how that environment sounded to YOUR ears. You can then choose to use any of those PRIR files at playback time (combined with the probably just the one HPEQ file for your personal high-quality headphones), to duplicate any of those listening environments... at your whim.

Personally, I've settled on just one particular 5.1 PRIR from one particular studio (of the 6 that I have available, including both 5.1 and 7.1 measurements -> PRIR files) as my "favorite". The super quality of that room and its electronics/speakers is so realistic through the Realiser that I simply use it 100% of the time.

It's really remarkable. My Dolby Headphone equipment has been living in its carton since April 2009.

Smyth Realiser. Not cheap, but worth it. There is simply nothing like it (once you get a "calibration" done). Here in the States, Smyth has established a relationship with several audio studios here in the LA area, which allow us to go over there and do a "calibration" for a standard $200 fee that's seemingly become the going rate for say the one hour of studio time needed to set up and take the measurement.

I have a Pioneer SE-DIR1000C that I used when I lived in my last house when my daughter was a toddler. Now I have a media room upstairs so I don't need it. I haven't used it in probably 4 years (I built an upstairs room in the old house too) and it's been boxed up nicely since then.
I loved this thing - it is perfect for the person who wants a solid surround feel while not waking up the neighbors! :)

PM me if interested. It goes on craiglist as well soon.

I'm north of Dallas.
Thanks!

This thread has been very helpful. Thanks to all contributors.

I have a question. How will the Pioneer SE-DIR800C work with bluray audio formats like Dolby Tru HD or DTS MA? Will it read it?

This thread has been very helpful. Thanks to all contributors.It was very important to me when I started it years ago.

However this technology is very "consumer-grade" and low-end, and doesn't really provide much more than a generic simulation of "virtual surround". It may sound fairly good to one person and not so good to another.

If you have the money, they ONLY technology truly solving the problem of closely reproducing/replicating the sound of ANY listening environment is SVS (Smyth Virtual Surround), provided by the Smyth Realiser product (http://www.smyth-research.com/).

I'm not going to go into any detail here, but if you want to learn about it from "the user community" read this other thread over on the Head-Fi forum (http://www.head-fi.org/t/418401/long-awaited-smyth-svs-realiser-now-available-for-purchase) which has been running now for over two years (ever since the product finally became available for purchase, after 6 years of development).


How will the Pioneer SE-DIR800C work with bluray audio formats like Dolby Tru HD or DTS MA? Will it read it?Not at all.

The Pioneer units only contain the Dolby Headphone engine, which can support conventional Dolby Digital and DTS codecs. None of the recent codecs are supported, and especially not the lossless ones available through BluRay delivery and HDMI connections.

Again, the Pioneer units and Dolby Headphone is a consumer-grade product developed 10 years ago, and hasn't changed since then.

So using this with bluray is pointless? If a bluray like Return Of The King that has only DTS HD gets played on this headset, I'd hear nothing?

So using this with bluray is pointless? If a bluray like Return Of The King that has only DTS HD gets played on this headset, I'd hear nothing?Correct. There is no decoding of DTS HD supported by Dolby Headphone. This product was built 10 years ago, before any lossless codecs existed. You'd have to play either the DD5.1 audio track from the disc, or the 2-channel PCM stereo track, in order to be able to hear sound.

If you look at Pioneer's web site page for the product (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Portable/Headphones/SE-DIR800C) (specifications tab), you'll see the specs about what is supported.

Or, you can look at the User Manual (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_11221/92753406Operating%20Instructions%20SE-DIR800C.pdf) on the Pioneer site.

Note that there is more than just the headphones to this product. There is also a "base station" which connects to your digital mult-channel audio source via optical or coax cable and does the Dolby/DTS decoding. Then the base station transmits the virtual-surround stereo wirelessly to the headphones.

Bummer. Thanks for your help though.

So using this with bluray is pointless? If a bluray like Return Of The King that has only DTS HD gets played on this headset, I'd hear nothing?

It is not useless as you will get the DTS core at 1.5 mbps which sounds really good with these headphones. I use the Pioneer SE-DIR2000C and the core tracks often have a better bitrate on BDs so even if I have an 5.1 setup with HDMI inputs, I do not regret watching BDs with my headphones when it is necessary to avoid waking up my family, I do not have the feeling to have an underwhelming experience.