beginning a thread for DMA 175 Watertown, NY hope this is how to post to it:
I am in Ogdensburg, NY, 2 miles north of bridge to Canada. I am OTA and E* HD user. Anyone else out there in Watertown DMA with HD equipment? I can not report what Time Warner cable has in way of HD in area.
Here is my equipment.

28" Sanyo widescreen HDTV HT28745 with built in ATSC tuner(tv is in small room)
Echostar HD 811 satellite receiver
VU190XR Radio Shack 58 element antenna mounted about 20 feet in air, with rotor and a
model 7777 channel master pre amp on antenna

After installing all equipment above here are results;

WWTI ch21-1 (50) ABC Watertown 56 miles to xmitter
WWNY ch35-1 (07) CBS Watertown 51 miles to xmitter
WNYF-LP ch35-2 (28) Fox(SD) Watertown
WNPI ch23-1 (18) PBS Norwood 34 miles to xmitter

my signal strength on WNPI is very strong in mid to high 80's on 0-100 scale. never drops out. PBS is broadcasting their analog signal in SD. I emailed station engineer and got nice reply back, they will not be adding HD content until probably Sept. 2005.

signal strength on ABC and CBS, was only in mid 60's with much tiling and freezing until I installed pre-amp, then signal went to high 70's, to high 80's.
I emailed WWNY and heard back from them, they say per FCC allowances they are not at full power to save energy and do not plan to be until reverting back to ch. 7 for their HD in 2009.
WWNY is broadcasting WNYF- low power Fox on subchannel 35-2 in SD.

no NBC HD OTA can't pull in Syracuse or Plattsburg

no HD out of Canada yet, but I pull in about 10 analog stations strong from Ottawa, including CBC, CTV, Global, Omni, CH, and City tv. Hopefully there wil some HD content from Canada before too long.
So for anyone in the North Country, this may help you determine what you can get. My feeling is without a pre-amp and large antenna you won't get much. Anyone else out there? in North Country.

Added to Thread Index

Since my first post have new additions. In late August WPBS Watertown went on air. Also discovered by turning my antenna to East I could get WCFE digital38 from Lyon Mountain (PLATTSBURG PBS). NO digital out of Canada but rumor is CBC OTTAWA coming this fall/winter.




WWTI ch21-1 (50) ABC Watertown 56 miles to xmitter
WWNY ch35-1 (07) CBS Watertown 51 miles to xmitter
WNYF-LP ch35-2 (28) Fox(SD) Watertown
WNPI ch23-1 (18) PBS Norwood 34 miles to xmitter

new
WPBS ch41-1 (16) PBS Watertown 51 miles to xmitter analog feed
additional
WCFE ch38-1 (57) PBS Plattsburg carrys PBS HD , 80 miles to xmitter.
ch38-2 (57) analog feed

I haven't been able to get channel 7 for a week or so. I just emailed the station to see what's up. I think it quit about when we were getting some t-storms.

Got a quick response from the station. They had a piece of equipment fail and will be back next week.

Got a quick response from the station. They had a piece of equipment fail and will be back next week.

tawilson, glad to see there is someone in the North Country besides me with HD. I wondered what happened to 7, it went out last Saturday. I was going to email them but hadn't yet. Have you heard anything if we will ever have Fox in HD up here. I am sure there is not enough band width to xmit both FOX and CBS in HD on channel 35. I am hoping when Dish network gets their NYC feed up in HD I will qualify for NBC and FOX.

Didn't ask and don't know about Fox. I get it and NBC thru DTV. I'm wondering when WPBS will start doing HD. And no, you are not alone. It might just be the two of us though.

Didn't ask and don't know about Fox. I get it and NBC thru DTV. I'm wondering when WPBS will start doing HD. And no, you are not alone. It might just be the two of us though.

the engineer at WPBS emailed me a while back and said they hoped they would have some HD programming up on WNPI by Sept., but I have seen nothing yet. I discoverd a few weeks back that if I turned my antenna NE I could pull in WCFE PBS Plattsburg. Their transmitter is at Lyon Mt. near Danemorra. I pull in a strong signal from there even though I am 80 miles away. They carry PBSHD on 1 channel and their analog feed on the other.
On the Canadian digital board the rumor is CBOT Ottawa will have some digital up this winter or by next spring.
I will be leaving for my winter home in Winter Haven next week. Central Florida is great for HD, I pull in about 50 HD and digital channels from Winter Haven half way between Tampa and Orlando.

WWNY 35-1,35-2, came back on air Wed. OCT 5, after being off for 10 days.

Where do you guys get your NBC from? Is there no NBC in Watertown?

Nope, no NBC in Watertown. I'm in the country so get it though DTV. In Watertown the cable carries the Syracuse station. The Syracuse transmitters are on the hills south of the city, so I have a hard time picking up a decent signal where I am, 15 miles north of Watertown, even though I have a couple rooptop antennas with rotors.

Got a quick response from the station. They had a piece of equipment fail and will be back next week.

So that's what happen. Both channels were off the air for about one and a half weeks, and I didn't know why.

I live in Kingston, Ontario (near Watertown) and I have a couple of long-range antennas and I have been able to get the Watertown and Syracuse channels. I briefly got ABC WHAM 13 from Rochester but no longer. I don't know why D54 - UPN 6 WSTQ was changed to NBC WSTM.

Hi Morpheus,
I also get Syracuse, Buffalo and Rochester stations when the atmospheric conditions are right, but only then. You must have a good setup to get the Syracuse stations. I've got a rooftop antenna with rotor, but still can't. Maybe an upgrade is in order. Are you using any amplifiers or boosters?

....You must have a good setup to get the Syracuse stations. .... Are you using any amplifiers or boosters?


I have a 53 foot tower with the Channel Master 9521A rotator (system) mounted on top with 2 long-range antennas. The top antenna is the 91XG (93" long, 91 elements) from Antennas Direct:

http://www.antennasdirect.com/91XG_HDTV_antenna.html

and the bottom one is the Radio Shack VU-210XR (190", 58 elements, VHF/UHF/FM). Each antenna has a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp (set to combine) and I have each of the cable mains go into a Channel Master indoor distribution amplifier model 3045 (1-in, 8-out). I have half the lines going to my computer desk and the other half going to the tv. I just got the MDP-130 about 3 months ago and have that hooked up to my 17" widescreen LCD (secondary) monitor (1280x768). I use this to watch tv ota.

I've been playing around with it trying to map out what channels I get and compile a list. A couple of days ago, I was rotating the antenna and accidently took it up to 360 degrees where it became stuck. I called my antenna installer to unstick the rotator (won't be for another 4 days). He recommended that since I have a alot of weight on the rotator (2 antennas), I should avoid going close to the 000 and 360 degree marks.

With the antennas stuck pointing north, I can't get alot of stations right now. Last night I went to watch Alias and Nightstalker (off cable) and ABC was off the air - so I missed them. :mad:

I just bought a Sanyo 27745 HDTV with tuner. Right now, no antenna or HD set top box, so all the digital extras are wasted on me.

Morpheus (and others): have you tried any smaller-scale antennas? Any chance of getting Watertown OTA HDTV without a tower?

Thanks

You shouldn't have any problem with a rooftop antenna. I bet you're less than 40 miles from the towers, with little or no hills and lots of water in between. Less for the WPBS tower, which is in Watertown, and hopefully will be doing HD shortly.

Must be WWNY lost their digital transmission during the windstorm this weekend. I'm still receiving WWTI-DT so I don't think it's on my end, even though my antennas did take a beating.

Hey Guys. Just wanted to say Hi! I'm located in Lowville. Have a DirecTV AT-9 dish with H20 receiver. D* won't give me my networks in HD and was wondering if anyone out there knows what kind of reception I could expect here outside of Lowville? We are up on a hill and have a great view of the Black River Valley and Tug Hill, looking NW towards Watertown.

You should get the Watertown stations ok. The transmitters for WWNY and WWTI are in Champion, not too far from you.
I get FOX and NBC thru DTV, wonder why you can't.
If you have a rooftop antenna and a rotor, you could try Syracuse, but Tug Hill might be in your way. Most of the transmitters are on the hills south of the city, too far for me.

Thanks for the quick reply. We've been on D* since 1997. Have no hope of ever getting cable up here. I've been reading lots of these forums since going to HD, however it's really confusing as to which antenna to try. D* gave us the networks before, and I still have them in 480i on D*. We were shocked when we switched to the H20 and D* said no to the networks in HD. Actually I've been fighting with them for weeks, but it looks like I'm going to lose. They did give us FOX and TNT, but denied the others. Any advie on antennas would be appreciated.

Still doing my research and haven't bought an antenna yet. Am I correct in assuming that I need a UHF/VHF antenna as Watertown broadcasts NBC on 50 (UHF) and CBS on 07 (VHF) or is it ch 21-1 and 35-1 both UHF? Also, should I get an amplifier or just try it without at first? I've read that with the digital feeds you either get it or you don't. Also, can anyone recommend a good antenna? Thanks.

Currently you only need a UHF antenna to pick up the digital channels. Channel 7 (CBS) is actually broadcasting digitally on channel 35, WWTI ch. 50 is broadcasting digitally on channel 21.1. I just got my HDTV his week and was pleasently surprised at the stations I was able to pull in. Once you have enough signal to lock, the picture is perfect. Not enough signal- no picture. I added a preamp to my old weather-beaten antenna on the roof and pulled in 9 digital channels! I pointed my antenna at 78 degrees (halfway between channel 7 and channel 50 towers), and voila!. My old rotator was shot, so I took it off and added the preamp. The only station I would like to try to get is NBC HD out of Syracuse. According to antennaweb, the NBC station is 69 miles away. I'll need to get a new rotator and possibly a bigger antenna for that...

Thanks for the response.
I've got it all up and running now.
D* gave me NBC HD and I get CBS & ABC from Watertown. I put up a small outdoor UHF antenna and it works like a champ.

You should be able to get WPBS from Watertown, also. They aren't doing HD yet but are broadcasting digitally.

Has CBS (35) been out this weekend? I was able to get it, but it's not coming in now. Sig strength is 0.

Yep, it's down.

How long does it usually stay down? Its been a few days now.

Back up today and looks great!

Looks like we're gonna lose our NBC and FOX feeds (DNS). Did any of you get the letter?

Whachyou talkin about, Willis?

I received a letter from D* dated 19 Apr 06. It says on 24 May the HD DNS feeds for CBS (80), NBC (82), ABC (86) and FOX (88) will be diconnected. There is a lot more info in some of the other threads on this forum.

I never got the letter that I know of, but I've been on the road a lot and it might have slipped by me. Till I got a laptop I've mainly been checking my email, and I have suscribed to this thread. This is for everyone, huh?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=673371

Check out the thread above.

To the best I can understand it's for everyone.

Glad to report CBC Ottawa (CBOT) digital channel 25 mapped to 4.1 is on the air with a test pattern. Reception here in Ogdensburg is 95-98 out of a 100. They will be testing for about 3 weeks in Sept. then on the air with programming. The French version will be on digital 22, but I did not pick that one up in my scan.

CBOT-DT 25 (4.1) and CBOFT-DT 22 (9.1) have been live out of Ottawa for several months now.

Have you heard any news about what will happen to the Upstate NY stations after the analog shutdown?

Also, I noticed that WWNY-DT[35] has a construction permit to broadcast at 1000kW. Does anyone know if or when that will happen?

WWTI-DT2 (50-2) has been broadcasting for a few weeks. It's a CW affiliate, and the description on the channel guide says HD broadcasts, but I haven't seen any yet.

I just tried CBOT-DT 25 (4.1) and CBOFT-DT 22 (9.1) - and I can't get those. Either I'm too far away, or it's cause I have my antennas pointing south toward the US and not north towards Ottawa (or both). Besides I get WCNY PBS on D25 from Syracuse. I tried WWTI-DT2 (50-2) and I got it! My second CW channel.

The NBC channel I get, WSTM D54, has a CW sub-channel but I find digital NBC is a hit or miss for me - half the time I get the channel, the other half time I get "no signal". This sucks since I want to watch Heroes on Monday nights. Channel 43 was a WB channel but didn't become a CW network, I think they went independant calling themselves "My43". I now get the digital channel for that as well.

There's Watertown's FOX channel analog 28, I get very badly (or not at all) and I think there's channel 66 which I don't get at all. I think these are the only 2 Watertown stations I don't get.

I just tried CBOT-DT 25 (4.1) and CBOFT-DT 22 (9.1) - and I can't get those. Either I'm too far away, or it's cause I have my antennas pointing south toward the US and not north towards Ottawa (or both). Besides I get WCNY PBS on D25 from Syracuse. I tried WWTI-DT2 (50-2) and I got it! My second CW channel.

Where abouts in Ontario are you? CBOT-DT's coverage isn't as large CBOT-TV because of a limitation imposed by Industry Canada (it is explained in CBOT-DT's licence application).

I live in Kingston. When I had my antennas first put up 2 years ago, I had them pointing North and I could get one of the Omni channels and about 2 or 3 other Canadian channels (one from Quebec - TVA ????). I then moved my antennas pointing south to get the US stations (Watertown and Syracuse mainly). Occasionally I get a Rochester station and once got the UPN station from Buffalo and once I got CityTV from Toronto.

I live in Kingston. When I had my antennas first put up 2 years ago, I had them pointing North and I could get one of the Omni channels and about 2 or 3 other Canadian channels (one from Quebec - TVA ????). I then moved my antennas pointing south to get the US stations (Watertown and Syracuse mainly). Occasionally I get a Rochester station and once got the UPN station from Buffalo and once I got CityTV from Toronto.

From Kingston you will definitely need to have your antenna pointing north to get the Ottawa channels. Had you thought of putting your antenna on a rotor so that you can accurately aim it? It will probably allow you to pick up different stations more reliably.

I have the antennas on a rotor - the Channel master 9521A, however when I got the set up redone, I added a TB-105 support bearing and the 2 masts are not perfectly parallel. As a result when I rotate the antennas (after the wind pushes the antennas in a different direction), they move part way and then jam. I have to spend several minutes of playing around with it to get the antennas pointing south again. Because of this, I no longer rotate my antennas (except to correct them after the wind moves them). In a year or so, I might redo the set up again, this time using the bearing from Wade-Antenna and move the rotor inside the tower between the 2 triangle plates (currently the rotor is on top of the top triangle plate).

That is a bummer. Why are the masts not parallel? The TB-105 should match the spacing on the 9521A just fine. Did one of the masts get bent get bent, or did you not get the rotor and bearing properly aligned on the support mast? I assume you broke off the tab that prevents the rotor from sliding down the mast.

Is the bearing from Wade better than the TB-105? Putting the rotor inside the tower is a good idea as it should make things more stable.

Yeah, the rotor tab was broken off. I don't know why the two masts are not parallel (I hired an antenna installer to do it). The Wade antenna bearing is different, it's a square mounting plate with a circular joint on top. I'm not sure how it works/is installed. It's part BBMB in Wade's DMX tower parts file:

http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/DMXTowerParts.pdf

When my antenna installer came he had one and thought I wanted him to install it, but I told him I had the TB-105 bearing and wanted that installed. At the end, he told me that I should get a new rotor since the Channel Master is a light-duty rotor and will have problems with my antenna's (I have the Antenna's Direct XG-91 and Wade's VIP-307SR). If I wanted him to change the rotor and use the Wade bearing, he would have to bring the top section of the tower down to the ground and do the work on the ground then reconnect the top tower section and bring the antennas back up (with the rotor inside between the 2 triangle plates). I might have this done in the summer, I don't know.

Most likely one or both of the masts are slightly bent. This could have happened either during installation or if there was a strong cross wind. This setup really isn't designed for two antennas. The bearing helps, but it doesn't provide the stability that putting the rotor inside the tower and a bearing (like the BBMB) at the top plate gives. Do you have a DMX (or DMX-B) tower?

He is also right about the 9521A. It is great for single antenna setups, but for dual antenna setups you are really pushing its limits (especially with big antennas like you have).

I had heard that WWNY DT was currently operating on low power and that sometime before the end of the year they would be increasing the output power. Does anyone know if that has taken place. Thanks

I had heard that WWNY DT was currently operating on low power and that sometime before the end of the year they would be increasing the output power.

FCC application number BMPCDT-20060628ABW (http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1134651) gives WWNY a construction permit (CP) which expires on January 21, 2007 to broadcast at 750kW. However, I read on Remote Central Forum (http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-sat/thread.cgi?3115) that that WWNY will not be implementing their CP, but will revert to digital on Channel 7 in Feb. 2009 and that WNYF has applied to broadcast digitally on 35. What is going to happen in reality I don't know but would like to find out.

I've traded emails with the station engineer on several occasions. Very nice guy and likes to hear feedback. There's a link on the station website to his email.

I asked WWNY and was told that they will be implementing the CP to broadcast at 750kW "shortly after January 1, 2007" and they will revert to channel 7 after the analog shutdown. They did not comment on whether WNYF will stay on 35 or not.

WWTI said they will remain remain on channel 21 after the analog shutdown.

WNYF Now Available in HDTV
on Time Warner Channel 878
http://www.newzjunky.com/record/1214wnyfhd.htm
Not sure if they will be broadcasting HD too. My DTV guide shows a HD program for tonite. I don't think it did before.
After rereading the article, sounds like a cable only thing.

I recently returned from winter in Florida. Have Sony 32" LCD with QAM tuner. I have basic cable from Time Warner (ch. 2-13) Did a rescan for digital cable and picked up all the following.

WWNY-CBS-ch7 digital on cable ch 83.2 (changed July 4 to QAM 80.2)
WWTI-ABC-ch50 digital on cable ch. 83.3(changed July4 to QAM 80.3)
WNYF-FOX-ch28 digital on cable QAM`ch. 100.3
WSTM-NBC-ch3 digital on cable QAM ch. 106.2
WSYR-ABC-ch9 digital on cable QAM ch. 106.3
also get WSTM weather channel and a second channel called Variety from WSYR

these are all digital channels and are in HD when HD programing is broadcast. Any one living in Jefferson, St.Law.(OGD and Gouverneur only) or northern Lewis should get these channels with basic service and a QAM tuner tv.

Massena, Potsdam and Canton area get NBC from Plattsburg. WPTZ just recently went digital and so far I don't believe Time Warner has not added a HD feed for WPTZ.

I live in Belleville, Ontario and have no problem getting WWTI and WPBS over the air. WWNY is hit or miss and I think it has something to do with the height of their current tower, near Carthage. I hope they move back to channel 7, when the analog shutoff happens. It should be receivable in this area like the two others. I can get stations from Syracuse, Rochester and Buffalo, during good weather.

I live in Belleville, Ontario and have no problem getting WWTI and WPBS over the air. WWNY is hit or miss and I think it has something to do with the height of their current tower, near Carthage. I hope they move back to channel 7, when the analog shutoff happens.

WWNY is currently directional to the south so that could explain your difficulties. After the analog shutdown they will be moving back to channel 7 with the same coverage pattern as their analog station. WWTI and WPBS will stay on their current DTV channels (41 and 21 respectively) at their current ERP. See DTV Tentative Channel Designations (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-1082A2.pdf) for more information.

For more information about reception in Belleville, ON, check out the Digital Home Canada ON - East of Oshawa/Peterborough/Trenton/Belleville/Kingston - OTA (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=43167) thread.

Does anyone know what's going on with WWTI? For the last few weeks, there has been periods where the digital chanels (-1 and -2) are off the air. When I change channels, I receive the analog WWTI with some minor ghosting but when I change to the digital station (-1) and the CW subchannel (-2), I get a black screen with no audio (no signal detected). Next day the 2 digital stations are back followed the next day by disappearing. This keeps going back and forth for the last month or so. It's very annoying. Right now, the only thing I watch on WWTI is Star Trek remastered on Saturday nights and I want to watch it in digital not analog (with ghosting)! :mad:

I'm getting 3 digital channels from WPBS. 16-3 is HD

Gee, I thought I'd get a little feedback from that announcement. Did I kill another thread?

Gee, I thought I'd get a little feedback from that announcement. Did I kill another thread?
Well, I read your message. I am impressed with the new HD feed on 16.3.

I had a HD DVR reciever installed yesterday and it doesn't want to pick up 16-3. I think I got my old one to work by punching in the actual frequency but now I am not sure what it is. I used to have a link to a list of stations and their broadcast frequency but can't find it. Any help?

I use a directv H20 reciever. On this model, I go to menu and find sat & ant and then antenna setup. After clicking on local markets, I enter the area code, it does a scan for over the air channels. It picks up 7.1, 7.2, 16.1 16.2, 16.3, 50.1 & 50.2.
My HD tv shows 7.1, 7.2 using ch. 35, freq. (KHz) 599000.
16.1, 16.2, 16.3 using ch. 41, freq. 635000.
50.1, 50.2 using ch. 21, freq. 515000.
Hope this helps.

I've got the HD20 and according to the manual I should be able to scan for local channels. I don't ever get that option. I think it's just downloading my local market from the satellite and because WPBS is still in test mode the info on 16-3 isn't available. Another funny quirk with 16-3, when I punched the 41-3 into my RPTV the HD channel took over the 16-1 spot. I imagine another scan will pick them all up. Thanks for the reply. I used to have the channels memorized, but it fades.

Does anyone know the Qam channel for NBC? Some of the numbers posted before are changed.

Does anyone know the Qam channel for NBC? Some of the numbers posted before are changed.


Just returned from wintering in Florida, did a QAM scan on my Sony lcd for Time Warner Ogdensburg and Gouverneur. I suspect other North Country villages on Time Warner will be same. exception those who get WPTZ Plattsburg NBC

WWNY-DT on QAM 80.2 CBS
WWTI_DT on QAM 80.3 ABC
WPBS 3 channels on 100.1, 100.2, and 100.4
WNYF-DT on QAM 100.3 FOX
WSTM-DT on QAM 106.2 NBC
WSTM-WX weather on QAM 106.5

Has there ever been any talk of launching an NBC affiliate for the Watertown-Ogdensburg area? There would certainly be a market for it now, as WPTZ will no longer be viewable in the North Country because its digital transmitter is in Vermont (blocked by the Adirondacks) rather than New York where the analog transmitter will be taken down next month.

It's just so strange that there's a CBS affiliate, ABC affiliate, PBS station, soon to be full-powered Fox affiliate, but no NBC.

It would be nice if there could be a full set in the area so that Rogers in Ottawa could go back to carrying the Watertown stations instead of Detroit. I used to prefer big-market stations, but I hate the way they always break away from national content for local news coverage. At least small-market stations don't have much of a budget for local news so they leave my national feeds alone.

It's just so strange that there's a CBS affiliate, ABC affiliate, PBS station, soon to be full-powered Fox affiliate, but no NBC.


Fox WNYF-CD on channel 35 in Watertown will not be full power, but at 15kW, it's not that far away from allegedly full power WWTI with 25 kW on channel 21.

15kW is the maximum power allowed by the FCC for a low-power UHF station.

While the analog shut-off was in limbo last week with the FCC putting WWNY and WWTI on the "problem" list, it now appears that WWTI has agreed to continue analog operation until June to permit WWNY to flash-cut immediately. I wonder how much compensation they will receive from WWNY for accepting that...

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-245A4.pdf

I think that's a reasonable accommodation that should have been encouraged in every market to promote the transition.

Force the immediate shut-off of every station that is a) out of core; b) is currently broadcasting on a frequency to be allocated to another station post-transition; and c) that planned to revert to its original channel. You would still have had several stations on the air until June which would avoid the doomsday scenario of "viewers dialing 911 not knowing what happened", but you could have freed up the 700Mhz spectrum immediately and people losing half their channels would get them moving to get their converter box. Also those setting up their boxes would have every channel on their permanent frequency eliminating the need to rescan in June (causing more confusion).

So did WWNY win their appeal? I don't see anything about it on their site. I hope so. If someone isn't ready now, I doubt that a couple of months will make a difference.
Ok, I just reread Jim Corbin's blog and must be they did.
Ok, I just read Jim Corbin's comment to his blog and maybe they didn't.

Ok, it's official. This is on the WWNY site today:
"WWNY has been given permission Saturday from the FCC to transition to all digital broadcasts on Tuesday 2/17."

Any update on the current status of WWNY?

Are WWNY-TV 7 and WWNY-DT 35 now off the air?

Has WWNY-DT 7 appeared yet?

Quick jump in.

We made some changes in our transmitter Monday afternoon, 2.23. Is there anyone here who wasn't getting us who now is, or saw a significant improvement in reception?

Best,

Scott Atkinson
News director
WWNY

Scott,
I'll be home Thursday night. I checked the signal strength last weekend so I can let you know if it's changed.

So what's going on with WWNY? On about Feb 17th, the analog signal was dropped but at the same time I no longer get the 2 digital channels WWNY-HD on 7-1 or FOX WNYF-SD on 7-2. All I get is a black screen with no audio and the error 'No Signal". This is been going on for 1 week now. I do get the channel when I switch to cable. :confused:

So what's going on with WWNY? On about Feb 17th, the analog signal was dropped but at the same time I no longer get the 2 digital channels WWNY-HD on 7-1 or FOX WNYF-SD on 7-2. All I get is a black screen with no audio and the error 'No Signal". This is been going on for 1 week now. I do get the channel when I switch to cable. :confused:

Have you rescanned?

- Trip

Have you rescanned?

That is a good point. In all the news about the analog shutdown, it hasn't been well advertised that people will need to scan for new channels if any of the stations are changing channel numbers (like WWNY did).

The other thing is since WWNY-DT is now on channel 7, a VHF antenna is necessary, but if Morpheus_Rising was receiving the analog channel, he probably already has one.

My signal dropped from 80 to 48 since last weekend and I can't get a steady picture.

I always use an UHF antenna and WWNY was using Digital 35 so I always had a strong signal around 80 - 87%. Well, I forgot that WWNY was moving to Digital 07 - which explains why I wasn't getting anything, I deleted Analog 07, Digital 07-1 (D35-1) and Digital 07-2 (D35-2) and did a rescan of digital 07. I still get nothing, signal strength is 0% (sometimes it jumps to 11%) and the Dolby 5.1 indicator keeps flashing on and off.

I switched to my VHF antenna (It's been on the fritz for over a year now, I keep putting it off to get it fixed) and did a recan for digital 07 - this time I got both CBS on D7.1 and FOX on D7.2 but the signal strength is low about 21%. I get freezes and pixelating - If this is the way it's going to be, then I just lost 2 stations. :mad:

I switched to my VHF antenna (It's been on the fritz for over a year now, I keep putting it off to get it fixed) and did a recan for digital 07 - this time I got both CBS on D7.1 and FOX on D7.2 but the signal strength is low about 21%. I get freezes and pixelating - If this is the way it's going to be, then I just lost 2 stations. :mad:

Sounds like you may be fine when you get the antenna fixed / replaced.

What exactly do you mean by 'on the fritz'? How clear was the channel 7 analog signal on you r VHF antenna before the shutdown?

I may have an antenna issue also. I have a different rooftop antenna hooked to my HR20 and it's getting a clear picture. It doesn't have a signal meter that I can find. According to WWNY's site, the old signal was UHF and the new is VHF. My antenna's have taken a beating in the last year or so.

After a week of wading through assorted problems - and getting ahead of some of them - we started retesting Thursday.

We went to reported trouble spots in Henderson/Sackets Harbor and got 7.1/7.2 fine.

We're headed to St. Lawrence County either today or early next week. We're expecting to find problems in the Fowler/Gouverneur/Macomb area.

Here's a few brief notes on what we've learned:

- Many of the dTV/dishnet problems last week were apparently the result of us changing frequency and the information taking a while to get pushed out to the boxes.

For the technically minded, dTV uses Tribune Media Services to provide initial information about channel location. After that, the box use the station's PSIP - though not for specific program information.

- We cleaned up errors the new transmitter was throwing. It's now putting out a perfect digital signal.

We're not sure the change will make much of a difference, but it's done.

- Antennas are the most important factor. Much of what's being sold as 'universal' is not particularly good in the high band vhf range. I've gotten reception for several people by having them hook up old rabbit ears and rescan.

In marginal areas, outdoor antennas are a must.

- There are vast differences in converter boxes. We've tested, keeping all other elements the same, and have seen one box utterly fail, the next one get some channels and a third get all.

HOWEVER, it's not clear to us that you can go by brand. This may be a quality control issue across brands.

So that's the state of our art as of Thursday, Feb. 27. No doubt we'll learn more.

Scott A.
WWNY TV

Sounds like you may be fine when you get the antenna fixed / replaced.

What exactly do you mean by 'on the fritz'? How clear was the channel 7 analog signal on you r VHF antenna before the shutdown?

I had my antenna set-up changed. Before, my VHF antenna could get alot of stations, both analog and digital, but after the new set-up the VHF antenna reception got screwed up. I believe it was due to the fact that my antenna installer moved the VHF antenna about 18 inches lower on the mast to the very bottom (about 12" from the top of the tower). I think this is causing the antenna to pick up interference from the tower - I only get a few stations with poor quality (CKWS is all over the place). My antenna installer is blaming my pre-amp (Channel Master 7777), stating it's gone bad and needs to be replaced. (I have gotten 2 new ones since). I have 3 tests to preform indoors to rule 3 items out (which I keep putting off) and then I have to wait for the weather to warm up to get my antenna installer back to test the preamp and possibly move the antenna back up the mast about 18".

With my UHF antenna, I get analog 7 as a colour picture with audio but with alot of static. It's hard to watch. With the VHF, I got a clear picture with sound.

I had my antenna set-up changed. Before, my VHF antenna could get alot of stations, both analog and digital, but after the new set-up the VHF antenna reception got screwed up. I believe it was due to the fact that my antenna installer moved the VHF antenna about 18 inches lower on the mast to the very bottom (about 12" from the top of the tower). I think this is causing the antenna to pick up interference from the tower - I only get a few stations with poor quality (CKWS is all over the place). My antenna installer is blaming my pre-amp (Channel Master 7777), stating it's gone bad and needs to be replaced. (I have gotten 2 new ones since). I have 3 tests to preform indoors to rule 3 items out (which I keep putting off) and then I have to wait for the weather to warm up to get my antenna installer back to test the preamp and possibly move the antenna back up the mast about 18".

With my UHF antenna, I get analog 7 as a colour picture with audio but with alot of static. It's hard to watch. With the VHF, I got a clear picture with sound.

What do you mean by "(CKWS is all over the place)"? Is it showing up on multiple channel positions other than where it's supposed to? (I don't know where you're located, but CKWS broadcasts on 11 Kingston, 26 Spencerville, 36 Franktown, and 69 Brighton). If you're seeing it on other channels, or mixed up with other stations, then your installer may have a point, and your pre-amp is overloading.

However, as you say, moving the antenna may also have caused issues, too.

What do you mean by "(CKWS is all over the place)"? Is it showing up on multiple channel positions other than where it's supposed to? (I don't know where you're located, but CKWS broadcasts on 11 Kingston, 26 Spencerville, 36 Franktown, and 69 Brighton). If you're seeing it on other channels, or mixed up with other stations, then your installer may have a point, and your pre-amp is overloading.

However, as you say, moving the antenna may also have caused issues, too.

I get CKWS on 11 and sometimes a faint picture on channel ~65/66. I just scrolled through the channels using the VHF antenna and here's where I found CKWS: 4, 10 (fairly clear B&W) (suppose to be WHEC), 11, 15 (suppose to be SRS), 16 (both CKWS and PBS), 20, 25, 29 (fairly clear B&W) (suppose to be WUTR), 34 (fairly clear B&W), 35 (Colour clear picture with audio), 36, 63, 68 (poor B&W picture) (suppose to be WYST). So does mean my pre-amp has gone bad and needs to be replaced?

So does mean my pre-amp has gone bad and needs to be replaced?

You are definitely suffering from overload, and a faulty preamp could be a cause.

How close are you to CKWS's Wolf Island channel 11 transmitter?

You are definitely suffering from overload, and a faulty preamp could be a cause.

How close are you to CKWS's Wolf Island channel 11 transmitter?

I liive in Kingston, so, very close.

I liive in Kingston, so, very close.

The problem isn't a faulty pre-amp but the wrong pre-amp for the job. The CM7777 is not recommended in urban areas where you are close to a transmitter as it will overload easily. Getting a lower gain pre-amp which can handle larger input signals will definitely help you.

The problem isn't a faulty pre-amp but the wrong pre-amp for the job. The CM7777 is not recommended in urban areas where you are close to a transmitter as it will overload easily. Getting a lower gain pre-amp which can handle larger input signals will definitely help you.

Good point, Roger. The overload could also be from the local FM stations from Wolfe Island, too. I think the CBC, SRC, and TVO are on the other side of the 401, so he should be OK for those if his antenna is pointing stateside.

The problem isn't a faulty pre-amp but the wrong pre-amp for the job. The CM7777 is not recommended in urban areas where you are close to a transmitter as it will overload easily. Getting a lower gain pre-amp which can handle larger input signals will definitely help you.

And there lies the problem - it worked perfectly before using the same VHF antenna and 7777 pre-amp - and doesn't work now. The main difference was that the antenna was moved lower down the mast (which is why I think is the problem). In case the pre-amp has gone bad, I bought a new one to use. It just a matter of debugging.

And there lies the problem - it worked perfectly before using the same VHF antenna and 7777 pre-amp - and doesn't work now. The main difference was that the antenna was moved lower down the mast (which is why I think is the problem). In case the pre-amp has gone bad, I bought a new one to use. It just a matter of debugging.

But WWNY-DT used to be on UHF and the WWNY you received on 7 was analog. The 7777 has separate amplifiers for VHF and UHF so overloading issues on VHF (and FM) will not be seen on UHF. Also, while you may not have seen many visual artifacts on analog channel 7, there could still be distortion that could cause issues with your DTV tuner.

But WWNY-DT used to be on UHF and the WWNY you received on 7 was analog. The 7777 has separate amplifiers for VHF and UHF so overloading issues on VHF (and FM) will not be seen on UHF. Also, while you may not have seen many visual artifacts on analog channel 7, there could still be distortion that could cause issues with your DTV tuner.

I had the antenna setup changed in 2007, so it's been about 1.5 years that's it's been on the fritz. With the VHF antenna, I was receiving several analog and digital channels from 2-69, (I can't remember which) but they were clear colour video with sound. Now, I don't really get much beyond CKWS on 11 with the several 'ghost' copies of it, and maybe one or two (such as WWNY briefly). I had the 7777 set to combine from the start, to get both VHF and UHF stations (on the VHF antenna). No problems whatsoever before the (antenna set-up) change, it was working perfectly.

Like I said it's going to be a matter of debugging, trying one thing at a time, to get it working like before. (One of the tests I wanted to do was to use the new power unit from the new 7777 pre-amp to see if the current one is faulty). There's a couple of other things I wanted to try indoors. Lastly, it would be to use the new 7777 on the VHF antenna to see if that changes anything. If not, then there's moving the VHF antenna up the mast 18" or so. Then there's checking to see if the coax connectors haven't come loose from the coax cable. (I hate debugging!)

Morpheus_Rising, Thinking more about it, it could be that the 7777 isn't receiving power for some reason. Without power it will block all signals, but CKWS is so strong that you probably don't even need an antenna to receive it. This could be a caused bad connection, a short in the line or a bad power injector.

Any info on when WNYF-LD will begin broadcasting on Channel 35?

After a week of wading through assorted problems - and getting ahead of some of them - we started retesting Thursday.

We went to reported trouble spots in Henderson/Sackets Harbor and got 7.1/7.2 fine.

We're headed to St. Lawrence County either today or early next week. We're expecting to find problems in the Fowler/Gouverneur/Macomb area.

Here's a few brief notes on what we've learned:

- Many of the dTV/dishnet problems last week were apparently the result of us changing frequency and the information taking a while to get pushed out to the boxes.

For the technically minded, dTV uses Tribune Media Services to provide initial information about channel location. After that, the box use the station's PSIP - though not for specific program information.

- We cleaned up errors the new transmitter was throwing. It's now putting out a perfect digital signal.

We're not sure the change will make much of a difference, but it's done.

- Antennas are the most important factor. Much of what's being sold as 'universal' is not particularly good in the high band vhf range. I've gotten reception for several people by having them hook up old rabbit ears and rescan.

In marginal areas, outdoor antennas are a must.

- There are vast differences in converter boxes. We've tested, keeping all other elements the same, and have seen one box utterly fail, the next one get some channels and a third get all.

HOWEVER, it's not clear to us that you can go by brand. This may be a quality control issue across brands.

So that's the state of our art as of Thursday, Feb. 27. No doubt we'll learn more.

Scott A.
WWNY TV

Been monitoring your signal since your cutoff, on February 18th. Saw the last moments of analog and first moments of digital on 7. I was using a UHF Winegard PR8800 for your channel 35 digital signal but quickly learned, that you cannot use a high end UHF antenna, that received you in analog, to receive a useable digital signal on VHF. I added a Winegard YA1713 and your signal is now consistant, here in Belleville, Ontario, approximately 78 miles to the northwest. Also wondering when you will be testing FOX on channel 35 digital?

Can anyone verify that WPBS and WNPI ended analog operations on 4/12? They had a counter on their website, but they removed it when it expired.

Thanks,

I checked WPBS Monday night and the analog channel has ceased broadcasting.

Thank you for the update. The website shows that they are broadcasting on digital channels 41 and 23, but may be confusing since the virtual channels are probably still 16 and 18.

Doesn't anyone in the North Country use the internets? No update since April! Anyone seen the status of WNYF-LD?

Doesn't anyone in the North Country use the internets? No update since April! Anyone seen the status of WNYF-LD?
Most of the discussion on DTV in the North Country happens over on WWNY-DT's blog.

Check out http://dtvtransition.blogspot.com/2009/06/612-dtv-deadline-has-passed-have-weyou.html for details. WNYF-CD is scheduled for the end of the summer.

Doesn't anyone in the North Country use the internets? No update since April! Anyone seen the status of WNYF-LD?

As Jim Corbin (Program Director for WWNY/WNYF) says at 6/12 DTV Deadline Has Passed, Have We/You Survived? (http://dtvtransition.blogspot.com/2009/06/612-dtv-deadline-has-passed-have-weyou.html), WNYF-LP (like all LPTV, Class A and Translator stations) is still broadcasting in analog. There are plans to have WNYF-CA broadcast digitally by the end of the summer, but they are still in the exploritory phase for WNYF-LP, so no date has been set.

Since people want to know here are the plans for WNYF to go digital.

Using the old UHF 35 channel that WWNY used pre 2/17/09, WNYF plans to broadcast in HD from the WWNY tower at 15kw which is technically low power. Since this station wont be as powerful as WWNY, they plan on keeping WNYF in standard definition on the 7-2 subchannel for WWNY. In case your wondering why they dont just make 7-2 an HD subchannel, I was told by Jim Corbin that this would use up or exceed avaliable space on ch7 since WWNY, 7-1 uses 1080p instead of 720p like most some channels. This new channel has been approved by the FCC, it should be done sometime this summer.
See their app to the FCC (Sorry Cant post links yet)

For St. Lawrence County, WNYF has plans of shutting down the Massena analog translator and instead using the facilities on WNPI. This means they would use channel 18, with PSIP at channel 28 and be a repeater of WWNY. This will proably mean that WWNY will be in HD and WNYF will be in SD. I imagine they will use some big antenna or something to pull in the fringe signal from Watertown and then rebroadcast it. WPBS relays their signal up their so i imagine WWNY can do the same thing. This is only 4kw so people in Massena are going to get the short end of the stick, b/c this signal may not reach them. Maybe someday they will get a power increase, but they just applied this to the FCC so it has not been approved yet.
See their app to the FCC (Sorry Cant post links yet)

I asked Jim Corbin who works for WWNY, this stuff the other day and he got back to me pretty quick. Check out the WWNY DTV Transition Blog

It seems like the FCC doesnt like to give out large power assigments for channels near the Canadian border. But i have a feeling 4kw will be too little to cover even St Lawrence county despite the map on the FCC's website that shows it covering the whole thing. If WNPI is allowed to have 40kw digital on the same tower, im sure WNYF can and will apply for a power increase, but they are probably applying with a low power to get approved by the FCC. Also to stay a "LP" station they would have to remain under 15kw.

Jim also told me that WWNY is feeling the effects of the Recession like everybody is, so your just going to have to bear with them. Upgrading towers to digital is very costly. But hopefully we will at least get to have FOX OTA in HD soon, although it will be LP.

7-1 uses 1080p instead of 720p like most some channels.

Just a small correction -- I think you meant 1080i. There is no 1080p in ATSC transmission.

Hey just an update guys, WNYF-CD signed on. It is a lower powered digital tower that provides WNYF in HD OTA. Before WNYF was only avaliable in SD on 7.2. Now it is available on channel 35 with PSIP of 28.1 being broadcast from the same tower as WWNY.

As soon as they get FCC approval for WNYF-LD in St. Lawrence county, they will sign it on. Should be relatively quick since they are using a prebuilt tower facility, the one used for WNPI's analog signal. This is also technically LP, but according to the FCC's database it should cover most of St. Lawrence county. This is going to be a repeater of WWNY, carrying CBS in HD and Fox in SD, unlike WNYF-CD which only has FOX in HD.

Sources:
7 News Broadcast
Their Blogger Site