I just got a 106" diagonal Graywolf screen. Right now they only come in pull down form. Anyway I was hoping becasue the material is retro-reflective that I wouldn't be bothered by the waves the non tensioned screens pick up. Well prayer answered, you cannot see waves with video on the screen. I ran every IRE shade of gray with Avia and just saw a flat image.

The screens color is a very dark gray and there's glass beads in the surface to get the 1.8 gain. Watching a few movies I wasn't bothered by sparlies from the surface. Didn't see hot spots either. The material is a great match for the H79 which is a bright projector. It made the video look very 3D w/dark blacks, colors got extremely stronger and the ANSI contrast looked very high.

For those wanting a higher end screen there will be fixed and Electric models in the near future.

Optoma Graywolf - Dark Gray material, 1.8gain, retro-reflective.

__________________

Thanks for the review Tom. Just for clarification, the retro-reflective surface is best suited for tabled mounted projectors?

Yes but you still get extra gain punch ceiling mounted. I'll run a test to see what the drop off is.

I'd expect this screen to become a hot item. When Dalite came out with their gray screen tons bought it, mainly for the better blacks. But it had a problem showing waves with video for sure. Plus this new screen has the advantage of higher gain.

Tom - sounds like an interesting screen. How's it hold up off angle? Is it as narrow a cone as the HP?

Thx

And does it suffer the fate of the other flat grey screens that punch up the CR but also tend to make colors look dingy or dim?

And does it suffer the fate of the other flat grey screens that punch up the CR but also tend to make colors look dingy or dim?


A very good question...

If you go far off to the side brightness goes down, much like the HP. But colors, colors go ten fold, very rich and black goes off the charts. You can see the glass beads if you try but during a movie you tend to ignore it because it's not so profound. This dark of a gray needs the glass for the punch.

Very interesting. Thanks for the review. What I noticed was that this screen is dirt cheap too. I might be interested if they make some larger sizes.

Dave G.

MSRP on these screens?

MSRP on these screens?
http://www.optomausa.com/optomausa/public/products_accessory_screen.jsp

Using the Graywolf is the most fun I've had lately with my setup. I had a real problem using the HP screen, I was at 34ftl's. Far from the 12ftl's for ideal HT. Much closer now, great blacks, great color, no wave hassels and cheap price.

Hmmm....I wonder if they'll make a 120" anytime soon...looks like 106 is the biggest?

Who carries these? AVS?

And does it suffer the fate of the other flat grey screens that punch up the CR but also tend to make colors look dingy or dim?
I loaned my 80" wide GrayWolf to a friend who had tried the High Power with his HS20 and he felt that it did make things look kind of dingy. He also said that people looked a little sickly with it, but he wasn't sure why. There is also a whole thing about gray screens messing up colors that many people have mentioned and I cannot find any physical reason for this (other than lower ft-lamberts throwing people off). So, I ran a test. I discovered that with my Sharp 11k, putting it in the brightest iris choice on the High Power with the Graywolf gives close to the same ft-lamberts as putting it in the dimmest iris choice on the High Power. In my mostly black velvet room I didn't tell my friend which screen was which and had him close his eyes between my changes. In this testing he could not tell any difference between the colors on the High Power and those on the Graywolf with about the same ft-lamberts. He did mention that he could tell which screen was which because the High Power mostly disappears while it is possible to see the surface on my Graywolf and so for that reason he prefered the High Power in this test.

I got the 80" wide one a little while ago and thought about doing a whole review thread here, but figured I would wait for the 92" wide one I ordered. However, when that one arrived it turned out to be a white screen and I need to get it replaced. The model numbers are the same for the white screens and the Graywolf, so hopefully they will fix this as I've heard of other people also getting the wrong screens.

Anyway, I did post some stuff on the >$3.5k projector forum and I'll include some relevant parts from those early thoughts here now thought Tom has this thread:

--- start here ---
- The viewing cone seems to be very similar to the Da-Lite High Power. Basically, it looks to me like the gain at an angle could be pretty well calculated by taking the gain of the High Power at that angle and dividing by 2.3. Even though the High Power is rated at 2.8, I believe its peak gain is closer to 3.3 (and somebody else with some good equipment found about this after I mentioned that I thought it was higher than 2.8 and even than the 3.1 or so I have on a graph). If the High Power is 3.3 peak and about 1.4 at 15 degrees off angle, then that would put this at just over 1.4 peak and 0.6 at 15 degrees off. I believe the graph I have a printout for with the High Power is from measurements that Stewart did of the High Power and I can post some numbers for different angles later.

- The screen has a gray white pattern that I am wondering how to describe. It might almost be like a bird or wolf that is gray, but when you get up close you see that it isn't completely uniform. It looks to me like they sprayed a gray mixture on a white screen and when it dried it left things a little patchy. With my 1280x720 Sharp 11k the resulting grainyness was in the range of the pixel sizes or bigger (like streaks of narrow gaps). Unfortunately, I can see a dirty look that I attribute to this pattern even at over 2x. People should note that I tend to notice things like this that others don't notice at all (I don't like the sheen I've seen with the SilverStar for instance).

- When I first pulled the screen down, besides getting a strong paint smell, there was a piece of plastic covering about the top 1/3rd of the screen. This might be a good idea for protecting the screen, but after taking this off it left a horizontal line that I can see in the images at times. Especially with uniform colors. If this wasn't a mistake on my screen then I think that Panoview needs to fix this and cover the whole screen if they want to do this.

- I tried this in my off-white walled living room and measured higher ANSI CR than my High Power. I also think the depth perception was better with the GrayWolf than with the High Power in there. But, I had to open the iris on the 11k to get enough lumens for this screen, so it is important to have enough for it.

- I've been hoping for a gray version of the High Power and this is close. One great thing about the High Power is that the surface mostly disappears and so this is missing that one attribute for me though.

The main suggestion I have for Panoview is to take care of this issue with the plastic covering the screen surface. Either cover the whole screen or none of it for shipment. And then I would like to know if this patchy/grainyness thing is on purpose or if they could spray more of one layer on there so that the screen would be more uniform in small areas. I could personally give up some gain for less patchiness. I like the screen for certain situations, but think it may be possible to make it even better.
--- end here ---

Also, I have a hardcopy of a graph of measurements for the High Power that I believe came from Stewart. It shows about 3.1 for the peak gain at zero degrees, but I believe that is actually closer to 3.3-3.4 with my High Powers (and someone else who measured for me) based on what some other screens have for gains.

Here are some points off the curve:

0 ----- 3.1
5 ----- 2.5
10 --- 2.05
15 --- 1.4
20 --- .95
25 --- .8
30 --- just above .7
35 --- just below .7
40 --- .65
45 --- just above .6
50 --- .6
55 --- .58
60 --- .57
Those are for the High Power, but as I mentioned above, I think dividing those by about 2.3 will get you pretty close for the Graywolf for any angle. Or maybe 2.2 from this chart would work better if the High Power is really more like 3.3-3.4 peak.

Also, please remember that the table mount recommendation for retro-reflective screens is just a guideline. The angles are what matters and having the projector a little overhead tends to work very well (especially since it doesn't take up the best seat in the house or force you to have a projector in your field of vision).

--Darin

I wonder how this screen compares to the Firehawk. Specifically, in those fade to black scenes where blacks turn grey, does this screen improve in that area where you can be sold on the black level?

Is the grey material darker than that of the Firehawk?

darinp2

These people that think grey makes things dingy are basing that claim by placing a grey sample on a white screen . They would say the exact same thing for a white sample on a high power screen.

As you pointed out - equalize the brightness - and that goes away.

Thanks, Darin.

Disappointing to hear about the texture. That's what would make a grey Highpower so attractive...

Tom, does your Graywolf also have the texture Darin describes?. Did yours also come with the plastic covering the top 1/3 of the scrren -- if so did it leave a mark?

For those who own or have seen this screen, is it available with a black case & black pull-down bar? White would really stick out in my theater.

I just checked the MSRP on these. Is it just me or are these insanely low prices? People are comparing it to Stewart screens? Aren't they almost 5 to 10x the amount of $ of a Graywolf?

I know that people in this forum want 'the best' of everything - and that is certainly desireable. But for those of us on a budget, the price/performance ratio is important.

What I am trying to say is that - all things considered - is the Graywolf great for the $ for those who can't afford Stewart/Vutect?

Mine had the plastic but it didn't impress a line in the material. I've been viewing this screen non stop with the H79 because HP is just too bright for the projector. I'm liking the deepness I got back to the image. Mine is pretty uniform in that it's gray with glass beads mixed. I'm not bothered by the glass beads, it's what gives it it's higher gain power. Hard to describe, sotra like a plasma effect but blacks are dark.

As far as colors they look excellent because I used colorfacts with the Gregtag one/eye facing the screen material for a match up.

I wonder how this screen compares to the Firehawk. Specifically, in those fade to black scenes where blacks turn grey, does this screen improve in that area where you can be sold on the black level?

Is the grey material darker than that of the Firehawk?
The biggest difference between the screens (other than price) is that the Graywolf is retro-reflective and the Firehawk is angular-reflective. This means different restrictions and performances under different conditions. If things are setup right I think it can mean better uniformity on the Graywolf (the Firehawk tends to dropoff towards the sides unless the throw and viewing ratio are both large). The Firehawk does have a more uniform surface to my eyes, but I'm hoping this is something that can be addressed with the Graywolf. I like the retro-reflectivity and the fact that it is a pull-down as I can move it between my setups easier. I will probably be selling my fixed Firehawk screen to somebody later this week and using a Graywolf instead when I want to test or use a gray screen. I haven't checked them against each other for how dark the gray base is (this requires not getting thrown off by the different reflectivities). My guess is that they are close, but if anything I would guess the Graywolf is darker just based on my calculations of somewhere in the .43 range for the gray base for it.

As far as the case color, the Graywolf I got came with a white case and the white case they shipped as a mistake came with a black case. I was excited to see the black case with the 2nd screen, but disappointed to find out it wasn't the Graywolf material.

--Darin

The info I've seen online says it has a large black border on top. Are the side and bottom borders 2"? Can the roller be stopped so that there's only roughly a 2" border on top? The extra black border would cause me not to be able to use the screen otherwise. Thanks.

The upper boarder is 13" when the screens all the way down. I have trouble getting a two inch border. It likes to stop at 4" and 1/2" borders. I'm using the 1/2" spot. Looks ok but painting the case black would be a good idea. Or mabye you could order black

The border is for letting you install the screen flush with the ceiling, cleaner look. With the long drop down your video will be closer to eye level

Here's the screen with the H79 and Oppo DVD player.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf3.jpg

Thanks Tom. Time to order mine.

Any idea if Optoma will send out a small sample to test? Also, I wonder how difficult this would be to buy as the fabric alone and mount it as I have a DIY fixed screen.

bob53, I sent an email asking Optoma if they would send a sample this morning. No response yet. I sent it to the same adress Darin mentioned -- I don't think he ever got a response. I'll post & let you know the response.

I'm still trying to find one with a black case -- anybody know if it exists? I asked this of Optoma as well. I hope they respond.

Black case? Thanks for your efforts, I look forward to the followup - this screen seems like what a few people are trying to homebrew - I like DIY but I've done too much of it lately and I'm starting to feel like I value my freetime more than my money :)

Bob

Also, I wonder how difficult this would be to buy as the fabric alone and mount it as I have a DIY fixed screen.
My guess is that with the low price you might be better off just buying it with the pull-down case and cutting the fabric out. Much like people do with the High Power.

--Darin

Buy.com appears to be the only reseller of the Panoview Graywolf screen. Are there other sources?

Tom, those screenshots look too dark to me......like the colors on the blue and red don't seem as punchy and vibrant. Maybe, when/if you have time, you might do a few of the shots you had for the H31 thread...the Gandalf Face or the Chronicles of Riddick shots.

Please, no more Leelu :D

Buy.com appears to be the only reseller of the Panoview Graywolf screen. Are there other sources?

BB has it also...I think

BB link (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7130552&type=product&id=1110263397650)

Tom, those screenshots look too dark to me......like the colors on the blue and red don't seem as punchy and vibrant. Maybe, when/if you have time, you might do a few of the shots you had for the H31 thread...the Gandalf Face or the Chronicles of Riddick shots.

Please, no more Leelu :D

They look pretty good on my laptop monitor. Notice the contrast of the first shot, girls hair vs the snow. Second one had good contrast also but no black in the picture. This is the H79 and the H79 has a ten fold deepness of red over the H30 ahd H31. Red is actually an overstaturated color with the H79, but it will still look natural and not go Crimson.

I put more Graywolf screen shots over the the H79 review thread. Some with added sharpness some without, like the ones above.

I know that screen shots are a poor way of doing an analysis but, do you think that the blacks/dark colors are over emphasized? (I probably committed some sort of heresy with this questions.)

Also, I know this is a very reasonably priced screen. Do you know whether the electric model can have additional leader at the top. I need between 2 and 3 feet to lower it to the proper level.

Last question. I will be putting it in a soffit. Do you know the dimensions of the electric screen case yet?

thnx

I'll take a look Tom, if the freebie Elite screen that came with my PJ doesn't make the long-term cut with me, I will definately consider this screen as a possibility.

Hmmm....I really hope they will send out samples or swatches......would be nice to demo it in your own home.

I know that screen shots are a poor way of doing an analysis but, do you think that the blacks/dark colors are over emphasized? (I probably committed some sort of heresy with this questions.)

Also, I know this is a very reasonably priced screen. Do you know whether the electric model can have additional leader at the top. I need between 2 and 3 feet to lower it to the proper level.

Last question. I will be putting it in a soffit. Do you know the dimensions of the electric screen case yet?

thnx

It's hard to tell about tunups with screens shots. They do look good on my old T22 IBM laptop so I'd imagine they'll look great on the store 19" CRT monitor. I tuned the monitor to correct blacks and whites so I'll be able to tell better there. Some were questioning the sharpness or lack of at the H79 review thread. I explained how there's zero shaprness on the PJ and the Oppos sharpness which defaults at low is turned to off (even lower). I feel the exagerated sharpness takes away from a smoother image which I'm use to from CRT.

Electrics and fixed screens are still on the drawing board, no details are set yet.

Hey

Does anyone know if Optoma might be putting together a screen/projector bundle in the near future?

I really like the look of the black casing.

Has anyone ordered this recently and actually got the right screen? Also when this is dropshipped from Optoma, where does it come from? My first incorrect order came from Oakland and my second currently in progress order is coming from Bloomington, CA.

I just received a response from Optoma confirming that the Graywolf does come with a black case. I asked if there was a specific model number for black, and there isn't. Rather, it was suggested that a black case be specified when ordering.

I ordered a graywolf screen from buy.com on saturday and it arrived today.Guess what?Wrong type screen.They shipped me a used white screen.I would wait to order this screen .

A used white screen? I guess they'll handle all the expense. Are you going to ask for a black case and a new one? sri

Mine is a white case, didn't know about the black. Darin got a mix up also I think. You better impress upon the cust service guy to double check they will ship out the exact order. Mention the slip ups.

Screen sales growing pains for sure. I'll check the box mine came in to see where it's from.

Oh this screen is stinky when you first draw it down. The smell goes away pretty quickly though. Keep the doors and windows open. The HP dalite was this was also.

I sent them an e-mail.The casing is black.The screen is white.I havn't heard back from them yet.Very dissapionted.

Looks like the shpping is fast maybe you'll be jake by Friday.

Here's some more pictures incase they were missed. These with sharpness added by the projector and Oppo player.

Murky blacks scene, sharpnesses on.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf7.jpg

Lady with projectros sharpness at middle
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf8.jpg

Lady w/pj's sharpness and the Oppos sharpness in default which they call low
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf9.jpg

Excellent deinterlacing scene, end of Greatness of Rome. nice 3D also, both sharpness adds
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf10.jpg

More of the Oppos sharpness feature, notice the ringing left side of face.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf11.jpg

Update from Optoma. There is no Graywolf in a black case. White only.

Danny, please give us an update when you can I almost ordered one from buy.com today. I hope everything works out for you.

Will Do

Ah, Darin was happy to see the second screen came in a black case, but not happy it was mat white. Thanks for clearing that up.

I guess Danny asked for a black case?

Looks like Graywolf owners will have to paint it black themselves. The Graywolf logo is kinda cool. You could cover it up with vasoline to keep it, or paper tape even better.

The case is flat black and there's a sticker that says MovieTime.

Another clue, lol

My white case says, Graywolf on the left, Optoma on the right.

Whoops, Graywolf on the right, Panaview on the left.

This case doesn't say optoma.The cardboard box it came in says panaview.

I just looked at the site. You'll notice all the Panaviews are black as soon as the Graywolf line is up there they're all white.

I think we have it figured out now. They must be told you want the Graywolf in the white case. If they mess up after that I don't know what to say. :)

Tom,I did order correctly.My confirmatiom e-mail says graywolf 1.8 screen.

darinp - Has Optoma contacted you or sent you the correct screen yet?

I imagine my next buy.com screen will be wrong as well, so I'll probably be calling optoma directly. If anyone has a direct number to someone at optoma or panoview that knows about the model number screw-up, I'd appreciate getting it.

Gimp, you're on the right track. Talk to a person, no buy it now.

This is a pretty wild screen. I'll call it Plasma Gray. Wavey non-tensioned that doesn't show waves with video, you'll see.

This screen might turn out to be a viable option for those who want the
best of both worlds. Drop this inexpensive screen in front of a traditional
white fixed. Too bad an electric, sofit mounted one is not available.

darinp - Has Optoma contacted you or sent you the correct screen yet?
I don't remember who B&H Photo said was supposed to call me to setup sending my screen back and getting the correct one, but I haven't heard anything. I've been hoping UPS would just drop off the correct one and then we could worry about getting the other one back, but no word so far.

This screen might turn out to be a viable option for those who want the
best of both worlds. Drop this inexpensive screen in front of a traditional
white fixed. Too bad an electric, sofit mounted one is not available.
I agree. When somebody needs a wider viewing cone for more guests or something they could go to a different screen and take advantage of how this one tends to help retain ANSI CR when they can deal with the more narrow viewing cone. Or one screen for movies and one for sports, etc. My plan is to hang a 92" wide one of these behind my 116" wide High Power and then maybe use this one when the lights are on.

--Darin

I ordered mine though BB.com, was ready for pick up the next day. I picked it up yesterday, correct screen, and mounted it.

No defects that I could see. It's a thin case, very tightly wound. Pretty light. Panoview on the left, Greywolf on the right. Very wide viewing cone by my eyes.

Played with it last night using my SP 4805 and the picture looked great to my unprofessional eyes.

And, as an added bonus, the chemical smell from the screen (like an old mimmeograph page) was so strong, we were high for the first hour.

Ron

Did you order the 92" or the 106" screen from BB.com it looks like the 106" would be the one but the 92" say's that it is white.

I ordered the 106" and it is the GreyWolf. The case is white.
We are sitting about 15' back and it is BIG! I hope I didn't make a mistake!
Ron

can someone please post the dimensions of the shipping box. I'm interest in the 92" but others may want to know about the other.

Also any comments on how the screen is packaged would be appreciated. ie How well it can survive in the back of the truck.

Thanks

I have another thread here in the SCREENS section, does anyone notice the screen texture on this greywolf screen from reasonable seating distances?

On the cheaptacular ELITE white screen I received with my H31 I notice the texture of the screen in some shots......

I just checked the buy.com price on the 106". WOW thats cheap. I may order one just to demo it, but before I do I have to check with Tom.

Tom, you've run the H31 and you're running the H79 right now I think...tell me, are we talking about a significant image improvement going from a matte white screen to this Greywolf? Is it a new keeper?

Also.....will the grey become a problem as the bulb reaches halflife or begins to age more than a matte white screen would?

Has anyone found where to get the 92' Graywolf, I am not sure if BB.com 92" is the graywolf or not and BUY.com seems to have problems from what I have heard.

my 106" screen came in a cardboard box, not very thick. It was about 105" long by about 8-10" wide. There were about 6 styrofoam braces holding the screen in the box. I wouldn't subject this box to too much stress!

Ron

I ordered mine though BB.com, was ready for pick up the next day. I picked it up yesterday, correct screen, and mounted it.

No defects that I could see. It's a thin case, very tightly wound. Pretty light. Panoview on the left, Greywolf on the right. Very wide viewing cone by my eyes.

Played with it last night using my SP 4805 and the picture looked great to my unprofessional eyes.

And, as an added bonus, the chemical smell from the screen (like an old mimmeograph page) was so strong, we were high for the first hour.

Ron

Sounds good, especially the free stone. :) Hmmm Optoma Graywolf and the Infocus meet. :)

At 15' back you're ok. I've been using this size of screen for a while and it's been looking small lately. I still have to use this size though, it is plenty big.

Tell them about how gray looking this baby looks? I haven't seen any other gray screen other than the Grayhawk. I wonder if any other gray screens tone, is as dark as this one?

Darin, what's the tone like a 40 or 50 IRE pattern with Avia?

Texture, I don't see it as a problem, the texture looks like a dark gray with glass beads in it and sprayed uniformly across the screen. When video is going you get like I said a plasma kind of look from the gain (whites are sizzling) and strong black levels from the gray.

Amazon has these

Amazon has these

and the price is incredible!!!

...with free shipping...

and the price is incredible!!!

But only in 92" variant :(

Tom, I seem to recall a few posts back you were going to try to measure the gain when the projector is ceiling mounted. Is that something you were able to do?

But only in 92" variant :(

Try searching by the Optoma model number or part number DS-9106PM or
DS9106PM.

It has to be done in an absolute black out. I've been sleeping on the job. :)

I'll get around to it, but I'm off to the beach for a few days vactaion. Can't wait to get back and see who's got their Graywolf and how they like it.
cya

But only in 92" variant :(

Try this linky (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0007QCVMW/qid=1121283569/sr=1-116/ref=sr_1_116/104-1331036-7475148?v=glance&s=electronics)

Since this is a retro-reflective screen and works best with table mounted projectors, what do you guys think will be results with the following combo:

Sanyo Z2 shelve mounted about 7 feet above the floor

Screen about 11.5 feet away

Seating is 11 feet away from screen with an eye level of 32-36 inches high.

Will the retro-reflective make it too dark at that angle???

guitarman

Have you measured viewing angles yet or compared against other gain samples?. It would seem that with an ceiling mounted lens offset projector you would be better off with High Contrast Matte White (1.1) as far as getting any gain since it is going to go all back up to the ceiling

Am I missing something, or is this truly the best of both worlds, having an increase in gain and contrast? How does the actual brightness compare for the screen compared to 1.0 gain? (I currently have an unpainted Parkland Plastics Bright White as my "screen").

Secondly, with HD sources, do you notice any degradation at all in resolution capability (as far as how crisp and detailed it is)? Especially given the beaded surface... I really liked what an absolutely flat PPBW sheet did compared to the slightly textured bare wall that I had before that.

I cant seem to find the 92" Graywolf at Amazon just the 106", can someone post a link to the 92".

http://www.buy.com/prod/GrayWolf_by_Panoview_92_Cinema_High_Contrast_HDTV_Gray_Scree n/q/loc/101/10390774.html

Don't order from buy.com.You will recieve wrong item.

Have you measured viewing angles yet or compared against other gain samples?
I believe it has about the same gain curve as the High Power as far as angles after doing measurements with both, but just with a darker base. So, the same issues with ceiling mount as the High Power (except maybe to even more extent since there is more opportunity for the darker screen to make things too dark at an off angle).


Am I missing something, or is this truly the best of both worlds, having an increase in gain and contrast?
Without ambient light no screen is going to help the on/off CR, so this "best of both worlds" that people want with a higher gain for white than for black doesn't exist. The gain is the same for 100 IRE as 0 IRE from any angle (other than some minor complications for certain conditions like different color temps that I won't get into here). But, the gray surface can help ANSI CR and can allow you to use a brighter mode or projector when lights are on in a room without getting overly bright images.

--Darin

So, in the end will this screen increase black level? One of the reasons I'm interested in a gray screen is to reduce black level.

It's quite ridiculous that both 106" screens have the model number DS-9106PM... but I just ordered mine from Amazon. Supposedly won't get it for two weeks though. I guess it's worth a shot at this price.

Apparently the 92" at Amazon is not the 1.8 gray. They do have 1 106" left:

106":

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0007QCVMW/qid=1121300331/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl23/002-1741004-9750441?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

I also ordered the 106" from Amazon today (right now I have a 4'x8' piece of melamine) and a H77 shelf mounted. I'll report on how it works when I get it in about 1.5 weeks.

Jay

Gman, FYI, it said there was one left before and after I ordered it...

so how well does this screen work with ambient light? i saw darin said that he would use the 92" in front of his high power, but the high power was a much larger size. does this retain colors better in ambient light but just isnt quite as bright?

so no good for a ceiling mount? arrgh - just spent bokoo $ (e.g. lots) on wiring for a ceiling mount. Will this not give me any benefit?

also, how do the black bars on DVD sources look (e.g. top/bottom for widescreen or sides for 4:3 material)? Are they discernable or should I look at a 4:3 graywolf also (which I couldnt' find, btw)

So, in the end will this screen increase black level? One of the reasons I'm interested in a gray screen is to reduce black level.
It depends on which black level you are talking about. If you are talking about absolute black level or full screen "black" (blackout) then it will only lower that if you are sitting in a viewing position with low enough gain that it is also lowering the white level. If you are talking about blacks in mixed scenes, then a gray screen can help these compared to a white screen by killing some of the reflections that go to the walls and then back to the screen. This is really the main "magic" of gray screens. Reducing the effect of room reflections. But this doesn't really apply to blackout scenes because any reduction of reflections is the same percentage for blackout scenes as for full white scenes (and thus no change to on/off CR).

--Darin

It's not that it isn't good with a ceiling mount. Rather, the full benefit of the gain won't be realized with a ceiling mount.

I had previously owned a ceiling mounted dlp with a high power screen (retro reflective) and while I lost some of the gain, it was great at minimizing reflections and obscuring any waves in the material.

Well, if you have been following the Toshiba MT700 thread you would have seen that as soon as I read about this screen I became so excited that I ran right out and bought it at BB. I paid retail but I'm considering it a 30 day trial after which it will go back if either if I can find it cheaper elsewhere (but want to keep it), or find I prefer something else.

The 106" Graywolf is replacing a 4x8' sheet of Parkland Plastics Durotherm-Lite that is bare white and 5/16" thick. As stated before, I am running it off of a ceiling-mounted Toshiba MT700 that (was) calibrated with Avia. The lamp has 208 hours on it. My room can be viewed at the link in my signature below, but it is an essentially 95% light controlled finished basement. It is only light controlled when I bother to use blackout cloth to cover the 5ft wide window that sits at chest level directly opposite the screen. My seating it at approx 12.5 ft back under the pj. I viewed random HD samples from my Cox Motorola HD/DVR, both recorded and live.

I am definatley not an expert in HT, nor in screens, but these are my first impressions of the Greywolf in my setup in comparison to the Parkland:

1) Lowest black level is noticeably improved. The largest difference is when I have the window uncovered - the change is worthwhile to say the least. Now I can throw a football party and not have the room be a cave. With the lamp set on high it looks very, very good in ambiant light compared to the Parkland (washed out like crazy). The difference is smaller when the room is dark - the Parkland seems a hair brighter when seated, but the Greywolf still has better blacks.
2) Contrast is improved, but whites are only somewhat as hot as the Parkland when I am standing due to #3.
3) Viewing cone is acceptable out to 90 degrees at least, but I lose some gain by sitting since the PJ is ceiling mounted (works perfectly for the spot where my bar will go!). When standing the Graywolf seemed about as bright as the Parkland to me. Seated viewing is still very good. There is a small drop in brightness (I'd guess 5-10%) at about 30 degrees (left or right), but then it looks uniform out to about 45ish.
4) No hotspotting that I could see, the Parkland has a minor hotspot in the middle.
5) The texture is...interesting. I would tend to agree with the "Plasma" comment earlier. I don't think it is having a detrimental effect on HDTV clarity/resolution, but it will take some getting used to for me, since my eye has become used to the smooth Parkland. It is not really a negative, but I would give the edge to the Parkland in this deptartment with the caveat that the preference may only be due to my months of getting used to the plastic.
6) I smelled the nice fumes, but they went away quickly.
7) The small plastic covering on the top of the screen removed easily and did not leave any impression that I could see.
8) Without changing settings on the MT700, the Parkland appeared to have a yellow tint in whites and greys compared to the Graywolf. Once compared side by side, I liked the greywolf more in this regard. However, I'm sure this is something that proper calibration would take care of.
9) The 2" black border around the actual screen area is nice, but close up it has some tiny white spots where the black material didn't cover. I can't see the spots from more a few inches away.
10) The one thing I would change...right now...is the color of the case. I can live with white, but this screen deserves a shiny black casing that melts into the background, not a flaring white one. A deep gray one would work better as well.
11) Call me crazy, but viewing the "Grid" test pattern in the PJ, I swear there is a significant, drastic reduction in RBE. I can see RBE any day of the week on my PJ (which is supposed to be very good about them - I can just see them on almost any DLP for some reason), but the Graywolf made a huge difference. Nice bonus there.

To sum up - I am happy with the Graywolf after my initial impressions. It may be a keeper for my setup, but I have 30 days to figure that out. I plan to get some screen samples for more informal comparisons. As you read my notes above, do keep in mind this is my first projector and first real screen other than the parkland. Hope this info helped....

Also - for a couple quick photos of the Greywolf (boxed and hung) check:
http://community.webshots.com/album/331614577HhULDO/1
*** LAST THREE PHOTOS ONLY: OTHER SCREENSHOTS ARE FROM THE PARKLAND***

I dont understand why there would be an optical difference between a table mount shooting 27 degrees up or a ceiling mount shooting 27 degrees down.

Ron

That's great news in general, Jon. My main concern is #5, as I'm also used to the smooth crispness that the plastic provides for illuminating every detail of the resolution. However, I'm also probably used to the washed out image that the plastic portrays.. when I put up the screen, the tradeoff was worth it (still is), but I'm hoping for the best of both worlds... not being washed out, but not being able to see texture on the screen while viewing either.

Ron, since the screen is apparently retro-reflective (as opposed to angular-reflective), the screen will tend to reflect light back toward the source. Most viewers view in line with the lower part of the screen, thus a table mount will display a brighter image.

Ron, it's the retro-reflective character of the screen that makes the gain greater when viewed at the same level as the light source..

Does anyone know if there is a How To, if say I wanted to purchase the 106 & make it into a fixed screen?

Any/all input would be greatly appreciated!

Most likely not yet, since this is a relatively new screen. But you sound like a volunteer!... :D

MnkyBiz,

That is my current plan as well... I have a DIY screen that has a boarder and a removable center frame for the screen. Currently I have BO as the screen but assuming the 1.8 gain screen can be pulled tight, I'll probably staple it over the BO... I'll have to see if the screen can take such abuse.

Bob

So now that we agree that this screen is not as good for ceiling mounted projectors...here is a good question...

What would be the gain on the ceiling mounted projector compared to a table projector assuming that the table gain is 1.8?

What would be the gain on the ceiling mounted projector compared to a table projector assuming that the table gain is 1.8?
It completely depends on the angles and so there is no one number. And the true angle needs to be used, which includes offset both horizontally and vertically. Here I have converted curves for the High Power with a .45 multiplier and believe this is pretty close for the GrayWolf for gain at different angles:

0 ----- 1.4
5 ----- 1.13
10 --- .92
15 --- .63
20 --- .43
25 --- .36
30 --- .33
35 --- .31
40 --- .29
45 --- .27
50 --- .27
55 --- .26
60 --- .26

--Darin

Mark down another white screen from buy.com. I'm done with them. It will be interesting to see if optoma can help or if I'll just need to pay more from someone else.

Bummer

i just forked over the money to purchase the screen from bb.com and no matter it wasn't worth the money, or dealing with the incompetent employees. so i have decided that i will return this screen just because of my adventure and i don't deal well with pitiful customer service. that said, i haven't even had a chance to project onto the screen, but tonight it should be getting a good test. i've already made sure to get it hung and pulled down to kill that smell. i think if you bought this screen and a projector and tried to go home and watch for the first time you might blame the projector for the headache because although the smell wasn't overbearing it was definitely powerful. the texture i believe darin hit spot on. its not exactly uniform but it seems to be from even a short distance. i checked to see if i could spot the texture with the lights on full blast in the room and no luck. due to the larger size of the screen, i purchased the 106" model, i had to find a new location and so the only projector at my disposal is an x1 with many many many hours on the bulb, somewhere in the upper 3000's but i can't be sure right now. hopefully the screen can still give me a good image but it will be a while before i can get another projector down and move it. i'll be sure to provide any information i can and with various lights on and off in the room to see just how well this screen will perform. i might only use part of the screen since i dont have a light cannon and its on its last leg. this will help me see just how well those inconsistencies in the screen really show up if hit with a few more lumens.

once the projector hit the screen the waves disappeared! :) viewing angle seemed much wider than high power:) the screen really gave me a beautiful crisp image :) SDE greatly reduced ( this is with the x1 and results may vary. the lines basically blended into the screen and i could definitely sit much closer to this screen than with a high power) :)

then i turned on the lights :( sitting close to the projector was ok, but either side was out of the question. :( the high power i can have lights on one side of the room, sit on the other as if they weren't on. not so with this screen. i had a lamp tucked in a corner away from the screen and the image was still washed out. was very upsetting because i thought this might have a chance. i think for those with light cannons thinking about the high power this is a much better choice. i think it would have better color saturation in ambient light with a few more lumens hitting it. i really want to get ahold of some other projectors and have some comparisons.

very film like image. i liked the fact that even though i wasn't completely filling the screen the gray color didn't stand out like the high power. for the first time with the projector i felt as though i was in a theater. hard to explain but usually the high power has a very sharp 3d image. although you could say dingy and muddy colors with the gray wolf i would have to disagree. instead they just felt perfect. of course i'm used to watching HD and the best i had was composite. it did remind me of just how well the x1 can perform with sdtv though. i'm going to connect some quality source material tomorrow and see what results i can achieve.

with the high power i can easily notice the viewing cone when moving around. thankfully with the graywolf it was barely noticeable. however, the cone may be the same its just that the high power is so bright in the cone that its easier to tell. i will edit this tomorrow and provide a better more concise summary once i have had time to tinker with settings.

once the projector hit the screen the waves disappeared! :) viewing angle seemed much wider than high power:)
Just want to check one thing to be sure. :) Does the case say GrayWolf on it?

--Darin

How high on the wall should the case be mounted with the 92" version for optimal viewing , about 12' back on a regular sofa?

One of the most frustrating aspects of this screen is trying to find a reliable vendor with a good price. If you search the part no. for this screen, you will see that a lot of vendors have it listed as a matte white screen with a black case. A few have it listed correctly, but it looks like some of those are still shipping the wrong part. :(

The problem is that the matte white screen with black case is the same part number as the Graywolf screen with white case.

I ordered mine a few days ago from B&H photo. They assured me I would get a 1.8 gain Graywolf with a black case. I now know that doesn't exist. I'm curious which one I'll get -- I'm guessing it will be the matte white screen.

the box clearly stated graywolf 1.8. the case also says graywolf on it

SSJ2

Please let us know how it all works out, becuase I would like to have the Black case also. Heck I would be happy just to know I was getting the Graywolf screen. :rolleyes:

Just remember guys, dont let the white case be a deal-breaker. Roll it up and set upon it with a can of KRYLON and you'll be in business in about 10 minutes.

In fact you could probably do it as FlatBlack instead of the gloss that comes on most black cases, further reducing the chances of light reflectivity.

The white case will actually be a benefit for me initially because it's in my living room and will look better when it's not dark (80% of the time we're in the room). Once I build a dedicated HT (obviously only in use when dark), I'll be using a 2.35 screen and will thus need a different one anyway. Good point about how easy it is to paint it though, HeadRusch.

The problem is that the matte white screen with black case is the same part number as the Graywolf screen with white case.

I ordered mine a few days ago from B&H photo. They assured me I would get a 1.8 gain Graywolf with a black case. I now know that doesn't exist. I'm curious which one I'll get -- I'm guessing it will be the matte white screen.

I'm also curious to see what you get as I was going to buy from B&H. I'm north
of the border (Canada) and doing exchanges across the border is a real PITA.

Hopefully these ordering bugs will be ironed out soon.

I'm back, :) Retro-relect screens being better for a table or low shelf mount doesn't mean they won'twork good and solve problems for ceiling mount users, we been setting up ceiling mounted with the Retro-reflects for years and happy. You'll get a brighter picture than mat white 1.0. I'll run a test but if the graywolf reacts like the HP we'll drop to near 1.3 or 1.4 gain using a ceiling mount.

The screen gets bonus points for lowering reflections users with white walls and ceilings get, like Darin just said.

Plus a non-tensioned pull down that won't show waves badly with video on it.

Then an amount of added gain. It has it's uses, love it with the H79.

Tom, seriously....I'm sure I speak for everyone here.

If you go away on vacation or business, please, let us know. We were worried.
We were about to send out the Dogs :D

I'll run a test but if the graywolf reacts like the HP we'll drop to near 1.3 or 1.4 gain using a ceiling mount.
You're already near 1.3 to 1.4 gain if you are at the projector with the GrayWolf. For your eyes at 42" off the floor and the projector 7.5' (or 90") off the floor and 16' from the screen, for the straight ahead spot from the viewer, the angle is about 16.8 degrees. I believe the gain is then about .56 for the GrayWolf and about 1.25 for the High Power.

--Darin

With my ceiling/shelf mount the PJ center lens is at 6.5" up from the floor, 12' back from the screen. Where am I at now?

What I did with the HP and the light meter is, face the meter to the screen just off side of the lens, then same facing I dropped the meter to where my eyes would be. I got a .08 difference.

With the H79 I see plenty of gain power. Way too much with the HP screen though. Much happier with the Graywolf. You've tried your H79 with both, which look do you prefer?

I have a spare Cosmo roller with Mat White on it same width size, so I'm thinking of carefully installing the Graywolf to it. I like the fact I can hang the case high and use the Graywolfs huge dropdown. You've figured it out haven't you this is a 120" 4.3 screen with large masking at the top, very useful for me.

Using the GW with a 16.9 dropdown I can't get a the 2" border spot, anybody get a clean stop at a 2" border at the top? I wonder if there's and adjustment inside to fix this problem? If I'm going to be taking it apart I guess I'll find out.

Tom, seriously....I'm sure I speak for everyone here.

If you go away on vacation or business, please, let us know. We were worried.
We were about to send out the Dogs :D

I only said something about the beach Vac in this thread. New hot item

the viewing cone and ambient light are a bit more frustrating than i thought before. of course with lights off it produces a beautiful image from all seating positions. however once the lights come on you really have to be close to get a visible image.

i have a friend bringing an hc3 over but probably not for another week. its a very bright projector with very visible SDE. hopefully this screen will reduce the SDE that is so visible on white screens. also, i believe the added ability to retain a little contrast when ambient light is present will be a huge benefit and a great match.

edit: i'm really excited to see how well this setup works because it could be a great new deal for people on a very tight budget. the hc3 dropped in price and can be found very cheap and the screen can be found cheap, especially when compared to the high power. poor contrast at 500:1 is disheartening nowadays, but for entertainment rooms and nondedicated areas it could be a crowd pleaser.

You're already near 1.3 to 1.4 gain if you are at the projector with the GrayWolf. For your eyes at 42" off the floor and the projector 7.5' (or 90") off the floor and 16' from the screen, for the straight ahead spot from the viewer, the angle is about 16.8 degrees. I believe the gain is then about .56 for the GrayWolf and about 1.25 for the High Power.

--Darin

Would a reflective gray screen material with a .8 - 1.1 gain (I.E. Da-lite HCCV/HCMW) provide more gain for a ceiling mounted projector? Other than eliminating the visibility of screen waves, does a retro-reflective gray screen offer benefits that a reflective gray screen does not?

"With my ceiling/shelf mount the PJ center lens is at 6.5" up from the floor, 12' back from the screen. Where am I at now?"

I've tested visually the difference in brightness with the Graywolf by standing up and sitting at the viewing spot many times. The brightness ofcourse will drop a little but to my eyes it's still very bright when seated. More then livable brightness level with added blacks, colors look excellent also. Any time you start adding more blacks the colors increase in depth also.

You should see the Incredibles on this screen. Anybody else that's ceiling mounted their PJ with this screen want to chime in on the perceived difference when testing standing up vs the seated viewing spot?

This weekend I'll wait for a pictch black enviroment and get the light meter out to give you a sure idea on the light difference with a ceiling mounted PJ.

Waiting on pins and needles to hear if someone has cut one of these and mounted it to a fixed frame. Wish I had a concrete date (and price) for when they'll start selling fixed wall-mounted versions. The wife is giving me a huge no to having a case up on the wall and I'd have to agree with her. I suppose we had to agree on something at some point.

My setup will be ceiling mounted as well, but I do have beige walls / white ceiling so this may be the way to go for me. The only gray screen I've ever seen was the Sony version on an HS51 at a Fry's where the image looked muted, but then again their setup and environment blew.

I'll probably pick one up at BB to test it out if anyone can confirm that cutting and applying it to a wall-frame is do-able. Maybe they'd take it back in pieces if it turns out not to be?

Tom,

As you know I have the H57 which is a bright projector. 1100 lumens spec. Probably that's using britemode right? I don't know what it would be using econo mode. Maybe 800 lumens??

Anyway, it's far too bright for my High Power and I've been using an ND2 filter which has made the image great.

However, I've recently gone back to my old HCMW screen which I initially used with my X1 when I had off-white walls. I have found this HCMW screen to be really nice as a complimentary piece to the H57.

My question is, if the HCMW is this good with the H57, will I even need to get the Greywolf? I have tensioning and waves on the HCMW so I know that the Greywolf will be a step up in that regard. But the 1.0 or 1.1 gain that I'm getting now with the HCMW is probably about the same that I'd get with the Greywolf is it not? My projector is almost exactly as high on the wall as yours. 6'4" lens to floor. And my screen's bottom is only 14" off the floor so the sweet spot and the cone are in my favor for brightness.

What do you think? Would I be gaining enough to warrant a change. I know that I'd lose the angular reflectiveness from the HCMW but I think that if the image from the Greywolf is at least as bright as the HCMW, it may be worth switching screens to get rid of the waves.

Wayne

I just remembered that mine will be going in front of a window (I'm using a piece of melamine now so I forgot about the window). Is this an opaque screen (like the Firehawk) or do I need to get a blackout blind by next Friday?

Thanks,
Jay

Wayne it's worth it for eliminating the waves alone. You know how it is with the waves, like any video perfectionist you'll be looking at them all the time. :(

I think you'll be surprised with the added blacks and how the image looks nice and bright at the same time with your H57.

Re backing, pretty sure it's black like the dalite screens, but not certain. I felt the thickness of the material and thought I saw black on the back. I'll double check tonight.

Thanks Tom,

Looking forward to your light meter readings when you get the chance. :) I'm seriously considering trying this screen out.

Wayne

The backing is black and it doesn't let any light through. Just got this yesterday from Best Buy and installed it today. I'm a rookie at this but I like it.

Oh, and you guys weren't kidding about the smell. It took about 3 hrs for the strong smell to go away.

I'm just curious what are the cleaning instructions for this screen I was all set to order one but remembered that my kids love to touch everything with dirty hands.

In that case, you could always roll it up when not in use.

miltimj,
Where did you get your screen from did you get it locally or over the net I checked with the local BB but they only carry the 106" which is to large for my theater room.

Anybody hear if optoma will put out bigger sizes? I would like to see this and maybe upgrade but wouldn't be worth the upgrade if the size would be the same as the high power I have now.

Chris

hmbeal,

I got mine from Amazon, but note that I did get the 106". I didn't look very closely for the 92", but it seems that there may be a problem from the various dealers sending the wrong one (white instead of gray screen, etc). I haven't received mine yet -- it's set to arrive on Wednesday.

Anybody hear if optoma will put out bigger sizes? I would like to see this and maybe upgrade but wouldn't be worth the upgrade if the size would be the same as the high power I have now.

Chris

What size were you wanting? I think max I can go is 120" or so.

Go Boilers :)

I was thinking 120" or 133".

I sat 7 feet from a 4:3 120" screen in my dorm room, and it was only a tad too big. I like to sit 1.0x screen distance away from my screen. But then you could just say why not just move closer to a bigger screen. Or you could just sit 8 inches away from a 13" tube tv :) .

Chris

You would want a light cannon for a 133 incher unless you plan to sit in the absolute peak of the gain curve. Remember that Darin's measurements suggest the graywolf has a gain of slightly less than half the high power for any given angle.

Using a light meter the screen gain dropped exactly to half from a flat ceiling mount to the eye viewing area. That's with a flush mounted projector (HT1000). The H79's shelf mount put the projector 12" closer to eye level or center lens, I'm not sure how much extra gain I pick up with the lens 1/3 closer, figure .2 or .3 more gain.

Image looks bright with the H79 and even worked well with the HT1000. My main hope was to tone down the H79 which the Graywolf did.

I have both the HP and Graywolf permanantly installed now. I've a/b'ed the two many times and prefer the Graywolf with the H79 and the HP with the HT1000.

I asked optoma if they would make the screen bigger and they said no, biggest is 106.

Chris

With my ceiling/shelf mount the PJ center lens is at 6.5" up from the floor, 12' back from the screen. Where am I at now?

What I did with the HP and the light meter is, face the meter to the screen just off side of the lens, then same facing I dropped the meter to where my eyes would be. I got a .08 difference.
It is the percentage difference that matters here, as you found with the half gain.

With 6.5' up from the floor and 12' back I get around 14 degrees off angle. Here is how I calculated that.

6.5' is 78". Assuming that the viewer's eyes are at 42", this is a difference of 36".

12' is 144". Draw a right triangle with 144" across the bottom and 36" for the height. The tangent of an angle is the opposite length over the adjacent length. In this case 36/144 = 0.25. Bring up the calculator in Windows under Start-Accesories and put in Scientific mode under View. Put in .25, click the Inv box, then hit the tan button. The result is 14 degrees. And 14 degrees would be a little under .7 gain for the table here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=557382&page=4&pp=30) if 1.4 is the peak gain.

--Darin

What made you see peak gain at 1.4 instead of 1.8? How about the HP material, isn't it higher than the stated 2.8? 3.2 I read posted here somewhere.

Trying to figure a way to use the light meter to judge actual screen gain? Just ran this test to see differences in off screen level. I'll get a 2.00ftcandle read with the Graywolf, 3.0ftc with a mat white and 4.00 with high power. These are taken close up to the screen sensor facing the screen.

I just took a viewing area reading using the HP screen and got 1.8ftc at lens level and 1.0ftc at viewing level. Which is what I got the last time I checked. I figure the dropoff off .08 which is less than half, puts the HP screen with a ceiling mount at 1.7gain, that's if the true gain is 2.8.

Has anyone had any luck tracking someone down at Optoma who will take care of replacing a white screen with a gray one? So far I've had no luck. I got a message asking if I'd bought it directly from Optoma and replied, but have had no response as yet.

The email system is slow (snail mail), it's best to call cust service, you'll find phone numbers at the website.

Ofcourse you'll have to do exchanges with the place you bought it from. Did you buy it from Optoma Direct?

I've been on hold a few times with Optoma support (just got hung up on/disconnected a few minutes ago). I bought from buy.com.

Darinp got his from bhphoto which definitely drop ships directly from Optoma. In his case Optoma would be doing the exchange.

I'm going to try to get Optoma to send me a gray screen either via purchase or exchange. It seems like there's no guarantee anywhere online (buy.com, bhphoto are both sending the wrong screens and bestbuy lists the 92" as white), so if Optoma can't deliver directly then I guess I'll stick with my old matte white for the time being.

I got a 92 inch Gray Wolf from buy. I ordered in Tuesday night online and it arrived Friday with standard ground shipping. Only problem is UPS put a few dents in the case - it is not very well boxed - but I decided it is not worth the bother to return since they are not too visible.

Rick in Ramones land, how does it look?

Rick,

Is the screen gray and is the case white with GrayWolf on it? Both of my matte white buy.com screens have had black cases with "MovieTime" written on them.

The case is white and says Gray Wolf on it. It is very light and easy to install. The pull down mechanism seems to work well. For the price, it seems like a steal.

The screen looks very good - there are no sparkles or wrinkles when viewing it so far in a limited try out. I am currently using it with an old Sony 400Q with an old bulb so it is not very bright, so it is a bit dim but very watchable. It works a lot better than my matte white with a little ambient light. I will try it this weekend with my Toshiba MT700, which is very bright - it should be good combination. It

How many lumens on that Toshiba Rick?

Wayne

1000 for the Toshiba MT700 -- it is indeed a bright projector, enough so that many are using ND2 filters in a light controlled environment.

All this talk of the wrong screen being sent is making me nervous.. mine gets shipped tomorrow, so I'll report back then.

After Rickknyc's positive experience with buy.com, I ordered yet again from them. I know I'm a glutton for punishment. Or maybe I just have faith... $100 cheaper than bestbuy keeps making me come back for more pain. I need a return policy in case I hate the texture or the line like darinp got.

Anyway Rickknyc - I blame you if I end up with three matte white screens. :p

I agree that the Panoview screens seem well made. I'm somewhat tempted to keep one of my matte white screens. No visible waves at my 8-10 ft seating distance (there are a couple *very* minor ripples that can be seen from 2-3 feet with no image on the screen, but I think most/all non-tensioned screens will have these. My work has a lot of Model B Da-Lites, which are wavy like crazy.

bad news Tim...

i ordered the 106" graywolf from Amazon the day before you did. it arrived today...

black case, white screen, dented.

grrr!

dookie

Oh great... well I guess I'll mentally prepare myself for a return..let me know how yours goes (I'm assuming you're returning it?)

One question for those who have received it already... how does it get mounted? Are there brackets, and if so, are they adjustable to the point that you could find a stud and mount it there, or would you have to put some kind of bracing between two studs and attach it to that? Are people ceiling mounting the screen, or wall mounting?

no worries on the return apparently...

amazon no longer lists the graywolf, so it won't be an exchange. they are however providing a pre-paid shipping label and full credit once they receive the return.

for what it's worth, mounting options (on this non-graywolf) are at the endpoints only...either keyhole slots on the back of the endcaps or d-rings running through the top of the endcaps.

time to start shopping again...

dookie

Looks like a nice screen. Anyone using this screen with a table mounted set up? Would it be too bright to use with the Infocus 4805?

The 106" lines up with the wall studs at my house. I use L-brackets and threaded hooks, the threaded hooks allow you to adjust for perfect leveling. You can nail these flat on the wall, it's tricky finding a level spot though. The screen is light so if studs don't match you could probably use butterflys and be ok.

just got off the phone with optoma...

the sales rep confirms 'thousands' of graywolfs in both sizes currently in stock in their warehouse. they caution that if the vendor you order from does not explicitly state 'graywolf' on the drop-ship order, a white screen will be sent. and if you order from a vendor with their own stock (i.e. - not drop-shipped from optoma), it's up to you to make sure the vendor understands what you're looking for.

i suggested perhaps a different part number was in order...amazingly optoma thinks it's clear enough. DS9106-PMG anyone?

sheesh...

dookie

I' actually considering this to replace my hi power just because of waves! They are driving me freaking batty :(. DaLite actually replaced my screen once under warranty, but is refusing to do so again.

I thought the High-Power was supposed to be about as resistant to waves as a non-tensioned screen can get?

Do you think you will fare any better with this one?

What are you doing, taking Tarzan swings on the thing!?!?! :D

Nope. It just gets them in a V pattern from the pulldown center out to the top edges. I've got the Model B Hi Power with CSR, and it still waves like crazy :(.

A tip for those with the white case, get black duvytene (sp?) tape. It's meant for photography work and all. I bought a 25' roll cheap online, and taped it to the underside of my case right up against the screen opening. Completely eliminated the annoying reflections, and looks pretty good.

madpoet,
I thought the retroreflective properties of the highpower made waves less/invisible when actually viewing video, do you find this to be the case? I have been very close to buying a dalite HP or this optoma, as my matte white dalite has very visible waves now...but if that won't solve the problem, I may have to get more creative.

The Craptacular Freebie ELITE 100" I got with my H31 also has the V waves....if I pull on one of the upper edges of the screen I can eliminate the waves but honestly they dont bother me enough to really care.


*yet*


:D


As we all know in this hobby what you ignore today you tirelessly obsess over tomorrow.

"Must...Converge...One...Last...LINE....MUST.....CONVERGE..."etc

Nope. It just gets them in a V pattern from the pulldown center out to the top edges. I've got the Model B Hi Power with CSR, and it still waves like crazy :(.

A tip for those with the white case, get black duvytene (sp?) tape. It's meant for photography work and all. I bought a 25' roll cheap online, and taped it to the underside of my case right up against the screen opening. Completely eliminated the annoying reflections, and looks pretty good.

My HP screen has the least physical waves I've seen but still I have some. The Cosmo electric has a huge roller which helps. Anyway if you view straight on you won't see waves with video or a blue screen either. Same deal with the Graywolf. If knowing the phyiscal waves are there bothers you, you won't be happy with the Graywolf non-tensioned.

Alot of the problem is the roller, I even tried stuffing pen light batterys at the center case. I did away with the V-waves and turned thme into straight waves. No win situation.

So what do people think of the GrayWolf and a Panny AE700 ? I've been looking to replace my blackout cloth screen, and currently have HP and Graywolf as my first 2 choices and maybe an HCCV as a third. I'd like some extra gain, but I don't know if the HP is too much. I don't know what the 700 actually puts out in lumens vs stated.

The Gray might help the percieved blacks on the 700. Its really hard to tell with the micro-sample I got from Da-lite, but I understand its free :) Obviously, opinions are welcome. I'd like some small ambient light rejection, but not looking for any miracles.

I think this was asked earlier, but with the numbers growing, I'll ask again.

What do you think of this as a candidate for removing from the case and affixing to a frame? Is the backing too thick for wrapping around a frame?

The Graywolf would help the Pany out greatly. Your black level will be much better, colors will be deeper. For your projector I'd choose it over the HP material. Not sure the HCCV material in non-tensioned will be free of waves with video on it. If it's not retro-reflective you'll be seeing waves with your video.

I think this was asked earlier, but with the numbers growing, I'll ask again.

What do you think of this as a candidate for removing from the case and affixing to a frame? Is the backing too thick for wrapping around a frame?

It's a thicker material than my HP and Mat White but it's plenty flexible. How do you plan to attach it to the frame?

It is the percentage difference that matters here, as you found with the half gain.

With 6.5' up from the floor and 12' back I get around 14 degrees off angle. Here is how I calculated that.

6.5' is 78". Assuming that the viewer's eyes are at 42", this is a difference of 36".

12' is 144". Draw a right triangle with 144" across the bottom and 36" for the height. The tangent of an angle is the opposite length over the adjacent length. In this case 36/144 = 0.25. Bring up the calculator in Windows under Start-Accesories and put in Scientific mode under View. Put in .25, click the Inv box, then hit the tan button. The result is 14 degrees. And 14 degrees would be a little under .7 gain for the table here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=557382&page=4&pp=30) if 1.4 is the peak gain.

--Darin

Darin,
I am wondering how this number would change across the vertical height of the screen? A 92" screen is 45" high. With the top at or about 68", the center of the screen would be at 45.5" That would put the center of the screen at 1.2degrees off axis to the viewer. But, the light striking the center of the screen is at a 8.9 degree angle from the lense. Does that mean it leaves the screen at the same 8.9 degree downward reflecting 1.8 gain at 22.5" lower still? This may be overdoing it, but I'm curious as to the effects across the screen. We always talk as if the screen is a point, but it is a very large surface given the distances involved. Is the gain significantly different across it's surface? Is the perceived gain worse still at the center of the screen, given the scenario described?

It's a thicker material than my HP and Mat White but it's plenty flexible. How do you plan to attach it to the frame?

I fancy staples, probably to the side or back of the frame. I'd lose the built in matting, but I could add that easily enough.

A minor miracle happened today. The UPS guy drove up indicating he had 3 packages for me. I had expected the projector (PE7700) to arrive but surprise, surprise, the 92" graywolf screen arrived as well as a HDMI cable from RAM. Nice to have everything come at the same time. :D

I had previously ordered the screen from Buy.com but like others received the wrong screen. With some intrepedation, I then ordered the graywolf screen from BHphotovideo and it came as ordered. Looking forward to seeing how the PE7700/graywolf perform together.

http://www.buy.com/prod/GrayWolf_by_Panoview_92_Cinema_High_Contrast_HDTV_Gray_Scree n/q/loc/101/10390774.html
I ordered it using the link in this post from Audionuttin this thread. I just clicked on it and it is showing Gray Wolfs in stock.

I went and ordered from Buy.com but thought I would let people know that I talked to BB.com and they confirmed that both the 92" and the 106" screens are labeled Graywolf in thier online order form. I'll let you know how my Buy.com order goes.

I just ordered from buy.com as well. The price was too good to pass up. If I receive the correct screen from them I'll just return the one I paid retail for to BB and enjoy the new one :) It said the 106 is on order btw.

Also, I had a few updates on the screen to add to my previous tome of comments:

1) I was originally going to post a more negative thought about the texture on the screen. I have, however, already become more used to it than before after several days of viewing.
2) There is one glass bead (yes just one itty bitty teeny tiny one) that makes a flaring bright spot less than the size of a pixel (I cannot stress how tiny it is), but only when viewed from the far left seat in my setup. It doesn't bother me much, but it's there for that one seat. I doubt anyone else *not from an a/v forum* would ever notice.
3) It is a PITA to retract this screen if the top casing is not secured well. I had to yank and pull about a million times to get it to work since mine is hanging from chains in the ceiling. When my g/f came downstairs and held the top case in place it worked smoothly and just fine. Keep that in mind so you don't beat the hell out of the screen like I did in frustration.
4) I can see one or two minor waves in the screen, but they are hidden by images - unless there is a horizontal pan like in the text on the HQV test disk. I can see the subtle bend, but it isn't bad. Just wanted to make a note that waves can exist in the screen. It would benefit from being tensioned, but it would be a minor improvement and not normally noticeable.
5) I had a group of people over this weekend, and several are interested in HT in at least a cursory manner. A few asked how much the screen cost and gasped when I told them three-hundred. They were impressed.

I think I had other things to say, but it's getting late and I'm forgetful. Time to go read harry potter.

Sounds good John, yes the list is low but I'm very surprised at the deal level these are going for. I hope AVS picks up on them with similar so we can get the better service to boot.

My HP screen has the least physical waves I've seen but still I have some. The Cosmo electric has a huge roller which helps. Anyway if you view straight on you won't see waves with video or a blue screen either. Same deal with the Graywolf. If knowing the phyiscal waves are there bothers you, you won't be happy with the Graywolf non-tensioned.

Alot of the problem is the roller, I even tried stuffing pen light batterys at the center case. I did away with the V-waves and turned thme into straight waves. No win situation.


I agree, straight on no waves. If I go slightly off axis though they become all too noticeable to me. If the Greywolf is the same, then I'm going to have to pass :(.

Sounds good John, yes the list is low but I'm very surprised at the deal level these are going for. I hope AVS picks up on them with similar so we can get the better service to boot.

That and I wouldn't mind a 120" wide (horizontal- 130" in 2.35 to one) variant.

106" is a bit smaller than I'd like :(

I agree, straight on no waves. If I go slightly off axis though they become all too noticeable to me. If the Greywolf is the same, then I'm going to have to pass :(.

Yes if you look at the screen from a side angle you can see wave shadows with video.

Thanks Tom. Someday I'll convince the wife to let me redo the basement and have a fixed screen ;)

I'd love a 120 incher, thats probably my perfect size...but for that size screen I'd need a PJ with lens-shift of some sort.

I'm tempted to order this screen if Toms giving it the thumbs up of pproval, and the price is right, but now I'm afraid of getting the wrong one in the mail! :D

Good news, B&H had the correct screen drop-shipped. My wife just called to tell me the screen arrived. The carton is labeled Graywolf, and the casing is white. This is a minor miracle given that B&H assured me I would be getting a Graywolf with a black case, which we know doesn't exist.

I'll be spending all night at my son's basketball game and won't be able to check it out. Should be able to post my opinions tomorrow.

no one has answered the cleaning question- How does optoma recommend one clean the graywolf? That was one advantage the HP has, you can wash it (vs dalite's regular glass bead screen, where washing rubs off the beads...)

Batorok, the manual available on-line recommends using a "very soft duster brush gently to remove foreign particles."

Lets keep thinking of ideas on how to get it mounted in a frame. I have a plexiglas screen that I painted, could this screen be glued to the plexiglas?

Well I opened up the carton and there are about a 1/2 dozen dents in the case -- two of which are rather significant. Oddly, the shipping carton doesn't look bad at all. This one's going back.

I did pull out the screen to have a loock at the material. This is one very gray gray screen. Nothing at all like the sample of Dalite's HCMW screen.

HT cOz - I don't see why not; you could use aerosol contact cement to attach it to the plexiglass. What sort of frame do you have for the plexi? What size?

What made you see peak gain at 1.4 instead of 1.8? How about the HP material, isn't it higher than the stated 2.8? 3.2 I read posted here somewhere.
I think the High Power is somewhere in the 3.2-3.4 range right at the light source. I did measurements from different angles with the High Power and GrayWolf and that is where I got a multiplier of something like .43 between the two. This put the peak gain for the GrayWolf around 1.4. I wouldn't worry about the specs so much as they also say that the GrayWolf has a 100 degree viewing cone. I believe that the viewing cone is supposed to be inside the half gain angle, which means it is more like 25 degrees according to the data I have.


Trying to figure a way to use the light meter to judge actual screen gain? Just ran this test to see differences in off screen level. I'll get a 2.00ftcandle read with the Graywolf, 3.0ftc with a mat white and 4.00 with high power. These are taken close up to the screen sensor facing the screen.I'm not sure what to make of those since you got a .5 multiplier from the HP to the GW if those are right, but would also indicate only 1.5 gain for the HP and .67 for the GW (based off the matte white).


I just took a viewing area reading using the HP screen and got 1.8ftc at lens level and 1.0ftc at viewing level. Which is what I got the last time I checked. I figure the dropoff off .08 which is less than half, puts the HP screen with a ceiling mount at 1.7gain, that's if the true gain is 2.8.
What you say "at lens level" do you mean that you are about as close to the lens as you can reasonably get, or that you are off to the side? If off to the side then you wouldn't get the peak gain since the horizontal angle matters also.


I am wondering how this number would change across the vertical height of the screen? A 92" screen is 45" high. With the top at or about 68", the center of the screen would be at 45.5" That would put the center of the screen at 1.2degrees off axis to the viewer. But, the light striking the center of the screen is at a 8.9 degree angle from the lense. Does that mean it leaves the screen at the same 8.9 degree downward reflecting 1.8 gain at 22.5" lower still? This may be overdoing it, but I'm curious as to the effects across the screen. We always talk as if the screen is a point, but it is a very large surface given the distances involved. Is the gain significantly different across it's surface? Is the perceived gain worse still at the center of the screen, given the scenario described?
You are right that the gain won't be exactly the same over the whole screen. This goes into hotspotting and unformity though. The uniformity with this will generally be better if the projector is about the same distance from the screen as the viewers. For a viewer sitting just underneath the lens, the angle that matters for determining the gain is the same for the spot at the same height as the viewer's eyes as it is for the spot at the same height as the projector lens. It would be easier to draw the two triangles and show that the angles are the same than to do it here though. Also, once you start looking at the horizontal offset you will see that the angles are somewhat different at different points across the screen, so different gains. However, if the projector is at the same distance from the screen then the images should be a lot more uniform than with a high gain angular-reflective screen (which is most other high gain screens). The reason is that in that case the angles used are from the reflection out to the sides and the line from the viewer to the screen, so the center of the screen should be brighter than the far sides in that case. With a retro-reflective screen the angles used for the center of the screen and the edges aren't a lot different if the projector is about the same distance from the screen as the viewer is. Move the projetor a lot closer or a lot further away with a retro-reflective screen and that no longer becomes the case though.

I hope at least some of that makes sense. :)

--Darin

Well, I received my screen from Amazon yesterday -- or should I say, someone else's screen? (Because that's whose its going to be some day...) They sent me the white panoview (black case) as well... I think I'll put up the two screws to hang it (grr.. they had to have the keyhole brackets be 98+" apart, instead of 96"..) So I'll see how it looks (though looks very similar to my Parkland Plastics sheet at first glance). Then I'll be sending it back, and probably ordering from B&H as others have had success there...

There is some confusion with the part numbers for the Optoma Gray Wolf screen. To insure you get the proper screen look for one of the following part numbers: for the 92" screen DS9092PMG or DS-9092PM-G or DS 9092PM G,
for the 106" use DS9106PMG or DS-9106PM-G or DS 9106PM G. The Gray wolf screen have the "G" or "Gray" at the end of the part number.

Optoma also has the Gray Wolf screens listed as DS-9092PM and DS-9106PM but using these numbers you may get the wrong screen since they have another screen which uses the numbers DS 9092PM and DS 9106PM (no "-" between the letters and numbers). This is the white screen with the black case. I have a link to a Yahoo store which carries these screens and shows all of them on one page. Not sure if it's OK to post a link to a store page or not, if it is let me know and I will post the link.

Randy

"What you say "at lens level" do you mean that you are about as close to the lens as you can reasonably get, or that you are off to the side? If off to the side then you wouldn't get the peak gain since the horizontal angle matters also."

About 6 inches in front of the lens was working good. I tried just to the side also and the reading was similar.

Someone mentioned it's gray gray not like HCMW. That's what I first noticed, how dark gray it is, almost like there's some black in there. I have it permanently installed along with the HP screen. I can have a half/half setup to see the difference. The Graywolf is quite different from the HP. Much darker, making blacks deep and colors are looking stronger and pretty accurate also.

The Graywolf is flush with the ceiling and I make use of the large black border on top. The border is a big help at keeping light reflection off the white case.

Sounds good - i'll probably be trying out this screen as well

jon, how long u been in papio? i used to go to school there

I'm new to HT and just got a Panasonic AE700U and am considering getting the 106in Graywolf. It will be going in a 12' x 18' room with the PJ on the rear wall. My question is how far up the wall should the PJ set to obtain the best possible picture - I was thinking that it should set about even with the center of the screen. Is this optimum? any comments would be appreciated, thanks

i still really feel like you need some lumens hitting this screen to get it to work perfectly. on-axis this screen is plenty bright and a gray high power would not need be any brighter. however the viewing cone was indeed distractingly narrow and the gain drop off was obvious (at the 1.8 gain i really was expecting a 100 degree viewing cone, and this was probably my biggest disappointment). the best thing about this screen is that off-axis the colors and details all seemed much better than my high power. for some reason off-axis the high power looses the punch and doesn't look quite as good. however the gray wolf just seemed a little too dark off axis for me. the high power seems brighter off-axis and the vibrant colors don't seem lost unless you move in and out of the cone or you can compare it directly with the graywolf. sitting in the cone with the lights on is fine because this screen still does a decent job with keeping colors and contrast, but its peak brightness isn't that of the high power and so things seem muted because they just lack the pop.

a high power has a silky image quality. its hard for me to explain but the screen surface is smooth, you don't notice any waves, and it probably feels more digital and 3d. the gray wolf has a very cinema quality about it, and you also don't notice waves (my screen had less waves than my high power, but what was there was invisible). everything seemed richer and more detailed, even though the picture was softer. you could get right up to the gray wolf (with the 2 projectors i tried) and have trouble finding screen door which was a definite advantage. the gray has many many attributes to it, but i think we are not far off from a better screen but will probably cost a few more dollars. this screen can be found relatively cheap and the build quality is nice, but the packaging sucks. dents are a quarantee, but who cares because its white and you will most likely cover it up. the border was amazing. a nice drop black border at the top and the sides was a bonus over anything from da-lite. it really will make you appreciate the effect a black border has on perceived image quality. one problem i had was the blasting seemed to be done to the border also. it was hard to notice but if you use the border for overscan and light up the black parts you will notice that there is gray flecks that shimmer (very disappointing.) also, since this screen is glass beaded i worried about constantly rolling up and down and although i never tried (but wish i had) i wanted to try and scratch off the flecks from the border just to see how easily the screen could be damaged.

if you want local pickup look around i'm sure there are stores that carry this screen. i decided it wasn't for me, but its still a decent screen. for those of you watching in the dark and in a non-dedicated room this screen might be the answer. its manual roll-up so it will hide away. the border is a wonderful bonus that will help hide your white walls.

bestbuy and micro center both have this screen listed on their websites at around the same price. MC only has the 92" available and its listed under panoview.

the projector will be brightest the closer to your head it is. i'm not familiar with the offset of the ae700 so somebody will probably be able to help you more. relative to the screen isn't going to help anybody give you optimum performance. instead relative to the viewer is whats important.

If this thread isn't BEGGING for some comparison shots (50/50) I dont know of one that IS :D

HiPower vs Greywolf
Matte White vs GreyWolf

..uhh..cheaptacular Elite Freebie vs Greywolf :D

Bootron

thanks for the info

I'm new to HT and just got a Panasonic AE700U and am considering getting the 106in Graywolf. It will be going in a 12' x 18' room with the PJ on the rear wall. My question is how far up the wall should the PJ set to obtain the best possible picture - I was thinking that it should set about even with the center of the screen. Is this optimum? any comments would be appreciated, thanks

Sounds like you'll have the ideal setup, wish I could do that. Have it as close to your viewing area as possible, you'll get some good gain. Plus the blacks will get much better for the Pany. That Pany is a very birght projector also, defintely an excellent match for the gray screen.

Sorry, here's the whole slew of graywolf pictures with the H79.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf3.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf4.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf5.jpg sharpness off pj&oppo
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf6.jpg sharpness off pj&oppo
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf7.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf8.jpg oppo sharp off PJ mid lvl
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf9.jpg oppo/pj/sharpness on
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf10.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf11.jpg

The dicussion came up in the DVD forum re Oppo and sharpness levels.


Projector calibrated by me, using Colorfacts and the Gretag Eye-one directly off the screen.

Looks like a nice screen. Anyone using this screen with a table mounted set up? Would it be too bright to use with the Infocus 4805?
Anybody?

I have the 4805, too, and will probably table mount in my bright (white walls and ceiling) living room. There's one window which I'll add drapes to. What do you guys think?

Yes Graywolf would be an excellent match for the 4805. You'll see less SD, better blacks, colors, brightness will be at a better HT level. Someone up around page 3 got one for his 4805 and loves it.

Excellent, thanks!

So where's the best place to order this thing with the understanding that you'll actually GET the right screen.

?????

I'd be intersted in the 106" version

I see you are recommending this screen for the panny 700, will a Z2 or Z3 be a good match for this screen?

For sure with the Pany because it's a bright projector, not up on how bright the Sanyo's are.
The pany reads out at 0.18 & 13.5. 13.5 tells me it's a pretty birght projector that could benefit by the gray screen. It will still be plenty bright and pick up a much better black level.

Any chance they'll put this in the insta-theater?

I'm starting to think that without dark screen material its absolutely impossible to get a good image in normal ambient light.

See this post by Kevin and Darin. We're talking lower than 100:1 !

CR at Ambient... (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5719375#post5719375)

Yet CRT direct views and plasmas and RP's, all with dark screens do just fine with the same peak whites.

If you have .5-1 footlambert of ambient and 12-35 footlamberts peak white you have 12:1 to 70:1 CR on a white screen.

Ken

This is a really dumb screen question, (I've always projected onto the wall) but do waves on pulldown screens appear from lots of rolling up/down? Meaning, could I have a pulldown screen in the "down" position all the time and avoid waves?

probably not. most screens just have waves straight outta the box and there is nothing to be done about it. leaving it down would help, but cutting the material off and stretching it over a DIY frame is the best thing to lose the waves

My Elite screen had waves right out of the box the first time. However, mine aren't all that noticible unless I look for them. They SEEM to be less pronounced, however, if I leave the screen down for a length of time...I guess gravity, over days and days, lets the screen stretch and settle just a little bit...takes the edge off the waves....

Well, my SP 4805 is now perfectly ceiling mounted ( 2 foot drop on a cathedral ceiling) on a home made Plexiglass mount (thanks to Tim's plans). I don't see much of a difference in brightness. And I love having the projector out of the way!

Ron

Amazon now only shows 1 available, and its used.

Buy.com is sold out, and they are shipping the wrong screen to pretty much everyone anyhow.

BestBuy has it..but guess what...its MSRP, making it more expensive than a DaLite HiPower, so no bargain (and no sale) there...

:(

Woe Is Me :)

I bought mine via BestBuy.com - do they price match to other internet dealers?
Ron

Yes Graywolf would be an excellent match for the 4805. You'll see less SD, better blacks, colors, brightness will be at a better HT level. Someone up around page 3 got one for his 4805 and loves it.

So now I'm somebody up on 3!?! Actually, I'm somebody up on page 2!!!!!! (just kidding!)

But the my SP 4805 looks great on this screen. I bought the 106" model. I was using the 76 Infocus screen that came with the projector when I bought it. I love the 12" leader on top, the free in focus screen didn't have any border on top.

And don't forget the great bonus of getting high the first hour you use the screen!!!

Ron

I pulled out the white version/black case that I got (was supposed to be the Graywolf) from Amazon. I have it hanging with it pulled all the way out, and the extra black on the top makes me want to paint the whole wall black...

Anyway, the white screen is pretty decent, but I think I'm going to go to Best Buy and pick up the Graywolf and A/B it, since the mounting should be the same (I put two screws 98.75" apart near the ceiling).

My wife was getting a headache from the smell... fortunately (I guess) I had allergies kick in this week and can't smell much of anything right now. Glad you like your mount, Ron.

Theres another place that carries the Graywolf. I don't have five post yet so I can't post a hyperlink. If you Google for "ds-9106pmg" the link will show up as the only search result. Prehaps someone who can post hyperlinks will post it. The price is cheaper than BB.

I've ordered mine from them just a day ago so it hasn't arrived yet. This is the store I spoke of in an eariler post.

Randy

Has anyone tried the screen with a H31?
I currently have the Panoview in matte white and like it a lot, waves are not too bad but I do notice them on occasion.

If you Google for "ds-9106pmg" the link will show up as the only search result. Prehaps someone who can post hyperlinks will post it. The price is cheaper than BB.
Randy


http://store.salestores.com/optoma3.html

MAN I WISH these came larger!

Audionuttt, thanks for posting the link.

Audionuttt, thanks for posting the link.

8-)

Not too hard to google.

8-)

Well My Buy.com order showed up today and is going back, recieved the movietime screen that everyone else has. This is unacceptable for a company to continue to do this to its customers.

Humbeal, was your screen poorly packed and dented all over? I'm nervous for the replacement I'll be getting.

The screen packing was poor at best but luckily it was not damaged. I talked with Optoma today and they are happy to replace the buy.com screen with the Graywolf but I would be responsible for the shipping which is going to be $60 so I think this one goes back to Buy.com. As far as Salestores, they have terrible customer service .

So, it looks like my best bet would be to get this from bhphoto, right?

It's looking like that, irallamecniv... I'm going to be picking it up from Best Buy sometime in the next couple days and A/Bing it with the matte white I was sent by Amazon. Maybe I'll like the matte white better; then it'll be easier to just return the gray to BB. If I like the gray better, I'll return both and get it from B&H I think. We'll see...

Just an update I talked to Optoma again and explained the shipping rates to them. Optoma is going to issue a call tag and pick up the shipping charges. Talk about A++++ service

It's ridiculous how many wrong screens are being sent out by the online store. You'd think after the first two mishaps the shipping and order department would catch on. A mgr at buy.xxx s/b be contacted to straighten out the sales order/ship team.

Hey guys,

I've had my 4805 for about a month or two (my first pj) and I love the damn thing. I've only started researching and learning about screens yesterday, so I'm still pretty green. Anyway, I'm almost entirely set on the Graywolf, but I've noticed lots of High Power love around here, so I was wondering if you guys could give me your recommendation between the two, or any other possible alternatives. Here's my situation.

My budget for the screen is around $200-300ish. I'll be projecting in my living room with only one window to worry about. I'll probably get drapes for it, so light control should be pretty decent. I plan on table mounting (I can't ceiling mount - I'll be in an apartment). It'll be a bright room (white walls and ceilings). I'll mostly be watching DVDs, playing a videogame every once in a while, and probably some sports (mostly football once the season starts). It would be nice if I didn't have to watch football in a cave. Most of my viewing time will be DVDs, though.

My lamp has just under 100 hours on it, so it's relatively new. I also slapped an ND2 filter on the pj. I'm planning on having a 106" diag picture, sitting about 13-16 ft back with the throw about the same, give or take. I do prefer better contrast and deeper blacks and a theater-like look than having an extremely bright plasma-like image that pops.

If someone can confirm that the Graywolf would work well in a room with moderate to low ambient light for occasional sports on TV, I'm sold. In the end, though, I care a lot more about DVD viewing. Thanks for putting up with all the noob questions, guys.

Either a High Contrast Matte White or the Greywolf would be perfect for you. These gray screens will deepen your perception of blacks and contrast ratio. You need a screen that will diffuse the reflections of light bouncing off of your light colored walls and then back onto the screen.

I have both the High Power and HCMW. I preferred the HCMW when my walls were off white. Once I painted them a semi-dark green, the HCMW looked way too dark and I bought the High Power which gave the images back the punch that they lost after painting.

Your Infocus 4805 is a bright projector and should work well with one of the gray screens. So, you've got a bright projector, bright walls and you prefer a more theater like presentation. In my experience and opinion, until you darken your walls, your best option is to go with a gray screen and since you want a 106" one, I'd go with the Greywolf because of the extra gain. Especially so since you'll be table mounting and making use of most of the 1.8 gain.

Wayne

Same opinion here, but find a place that knows what screen type they're sending out. Research the where to buys in this thread. Ask for Garywolf 1.8 gain in the white case.

So Tom, this screen really is the real deal huh? The ELITE screen is more of a silvery than a white, per say, or so my eyes tell me...that probably accounts for the sparklies and why the blacks look not-too-bad........but I am so tempted now to go with this GrayWolf based on your statements.

So this thing really wakes an H31 up then huh? No real negatives??

Thanks guys, your input is very much appreciated.

With the H31 you're better off table mounting with the Graywolf. You'll like the inceased brightness this way plus the black still stay better. It would be an excellent match with the H31 for that setup. This screen is best for bright projectors like the Pany or 4805, H79, Z2000

Good for the H57 too! :D

Wayne

Not to get into price, but you might want to try out pcnation.com Good price, and free shipping. Also, very good place to shop from.

With the H31 you're better off table mounting with the Graywolf. You'll like the inceased brightness this way plus the black still stay better. It would be an excellent match with the H31 for that setup. This screen is best for bright projectors like the Pany or 4805, H79, Z2000

A shame since I just ceiling mounted mine...<shrug>

Guess I'll stay with the elite awhile longer, although even with lower gain it can't actually hurt can it.....?

It's not bad but I think you would miss the brightness.

:) HeadRusch.I got the 100'' elite freebie with my purchase of infocus 4805.I hate that screen.So I ordered a graywolf and got a mattewhite.I was going to send it back but i said what the heck,and so I took down the elite and up went the panoview.I think it looks very good.So i'm going to keep the mattewhite .It works for me.

With the H31 you're better off table mounting with the Graywolf. You'll like the inceased brightness this way plus the black still stay better. It would be an excellent match with the H31 for that setup. This screen is best for bright projectors like the Pany or 4805, H79, Z2000

That is disappointing to hear. I am about to upgrade to an H31 and insist it be ceiling mounted. My X1 has been on a table top for the past two years and is too close to my seating area so I am finally going to mount it to the ceiling tomorrow. I also hate having all the cables strewn about the floor. I guess I can always go with a different type of screen like the Matte white. Good thing I read all eight pages here.

Greg

But lowered brightness may be attractive depending on your pj's brightness and screen size. A gray retroreflective screen should be a *far* better than an ND2 for lowering brightness, since it should minimize secondary reflections from light bouncing around the room. And you also can get good bang for your buck darkening just the "in the line of fire" wall space.

Of course I have no real world experience as I just received my third white screen from buy.com... Back to on hold with Optoma.

I dont hate the Elite screen myself, in fact, for all intents and purposes I have no real problem with the image the H31 puts out when projected on it. Its just that I know when looking at it that I'm looking at the bottom of the barrel, so when a screen like a GrayWolf comes out I immediately know I can make the image a whole lot better for just a few dollars (comparitively).


I'm sure some purists and HT snob-types can point out a dozen different areas where the Elite screen fails miserably, the only thing that bothers me about it is that I saw the screen texture appear and sparklies in a few scenes in one movie I watched, it was only distracting for a moment. But at the same time, I know I'm using the same screen technology that my grandfather used in the 70's for projecting his vacation Slides :)

FlyingGimp - I presume Buy.com is covering all return costs and you're only out time and a fair amount of frustration? :) Has anyone received the correct screen from Buy?

They pre-pay the return shipping and I'm expecting a full refund of the original amount. If not then I think I have Amex on my side. I am taking a picture of the screens/boxes just to prove they're white 1.0 gain screens.

BTW, on the first wrong screen I did notify Buy.com, but they seem to just send a form reply so I doubt anyone noticed. From what I've read on the net phone calls are routed to India where you get read the same form letter.

Buy.com also seems to be dropshipping from distributors. My last one came from Ingram. Ricknyc probably got his from an east coast warehouse which has the right model screen.

I picked up the Graywolf at Best Buy today and watched four chapters of Band of Brothers with some ambient light in the room (about 80% dark). Multiple people preferred the Graywolf to the matte white Panoview. I'm not so sure I like the texture of the graywolf as much as the panoview though. It seems like the matte white would be better for HDTV, and the graywolf for movies. Or maybe it's just that the graywolf is better with very good light control, and I need to get better control over that in my setup if I want to continue to use the Graywolf.

I still have a couple weeks to decide between the two, and will be going back and forth quite a bit. On another note, my wife really can't stand how bad this thing smells.. it's only been 12 hours that it's been out though; it's now in the garage with a fan blowing on it. She's sensitive to things like that though, that's for sure.

So what were the pluses on the Greywolf.........deeper blacks, bright picture? was anything noticibly muted, and did you recalibrate for the new grey display?

I understand that any retroreflective screen is going to give you that issue if you sit close that you'll be able to make out the screen texture.....The only real option there is to sit further back I'm guessing.

I really want to drop the hammer on one of these but now Tom has me all scared it'll be too dark :)

I'll elaborate a bit, as a few things have sunk in since I posted last.

I have a ceiling mounted projector, lens at 78". Screen is about 32" off the floor. Viewer height is about 42".

The brightness is definitely different between sitting and standing, about 30-40% brighter standing. The difference in brightness left to right (as in, a 160 degree angle) is very minimal. I'm using a brighter projector (PE7700) in economical mode. One friend in particular mentioned how much better he liked the Graywolf... I can't remember the adjective he used, but something about being fuller/richer/engrossing. I suggested that the matte white looked more washed out than the graywolf and he absolutely agreed. The graywolf definitely gave darker blacks, though in some of the darkest scenes I thought that it might have been even too dark, but I think that was the scene, and not the screen causing that. The matte white was an overall brighter picture, but more washed out as I said.

Regarding the texture, I wouldn't want to sit back any further for this screen size (106")... (nor can I, given the size of my room). It's something I'll probably have to get used to if I choose it -- I was used to a very smooth Parkland Plastics bright white (plain) screen.

I didn't calibrate between the two displays -- perhaps that would make the gray look even better. I think it's more calibrated toward the white, but I haven't really messed with that. Maybe I will, but I think I'll be able to choose between the two without having to recalibrate each time.

Unfortunately, it'll be easier on me logistically if I return the graywolf (easier to return to best buy), because if I want to keep it, I'll end up returning both screens and buying from an online store because it's cheaper. I'm trying not to let that influence my decision too much though.

Oh, let me reiterate that if you have a totally light controlled room, I wouldn't even hesitate to buy/keep the Graywolf. I'm just trying to fight with some ambient light issues as well.

I picked up the Graywolf at Best Buy today and watched four chapters of Band of Brothers with some ambient light in the room (about 80% dark). Multiple people preferred the Graywolf to the matte white Panoview. I'm not so sure I like the texture of the graywolf as much as the panoview though. It seems like the matte white would be better for HDTV, and the graywolf for movies. Or maybe it's just that the graywolf is better with very good light control, and I need to get better control over that in my setup if I want to continue to use the Graywolf.

I still have a couple weeks to decide between the two, and will be going back and forth quite a bit. On another note, my wife really can't stand how bad this thing smells.. it's only been 12 hours that it's been out though; it's now in the garage with a fan blowing on it. She's sensitive to things like that though, that's for sure.

My wife belly ached about the smell but it did disapate quickly. It was like that for my HP screen.

Headrush, yes it does deepen the black level greatly, which is the best part I like about the screen. My H31 is wearing down, too much moving around and testing, this burns the bulb down quickly. You may try the graywolf and love it with your H31. At $150 maybe you should give it a look. For sure you'll pick up the no waves with video part and ambient light rejection..
See what you think.

My guess is you'll see a much deeper 3D image with better color, less wall and ambient light reflection. A deeper more colorful picture overall.

Headrush,

If you do get the Graywolf please report back on how it matched up with the H31. There are a number of us H31 owners that would like to see if it would be a good option or not. I currently have a Panoview in matte white and am not sure if the Graywolf would be a imporvment - but am curoius :rolleyes:

Last night at about 1:30am, after slogging it out with TEAM AVS in Battlefield 2 for many an hour, I decided I wanted to watch a movie, so I popped in War Of The Worlds (the original).

This was also the first time I noticed I was crushing blacks to an unacceptable level. While the ELITE screen was doing a pretty good job with the projected image, I could see now that I was over-compensating for the screen by dialing down the H31 and, as a result, crushing my black levels. Oh sure I was getting decent blacks, but at the expense of details. Now I'm even more tempted to go with a GreyWolf, so I can bring the balance up on the H31 and let the screen help with the deeper blacks.

I have some other ticket items to order today (new camcorder and digital camera), I will probably add the GrayWolf to that order since they sell em where I'll be shopping.

PS: The GrayWolf I think is in this weeks BestBuy ad (at least here on the East Coast), along with a full page spread on Front Projection. Only 1 system is shown (Mits DLP) but its the first time in any recent memory that I've seen a major retailer even promote the concept of front projection, with a huge graphic and "simulated projected image" kind of thing showing people who dont know "what a front projector is". Interesting.

This can only mean 2 things:
1) If more people buy in, cheaper prices, cheaper bulbs
2) The AV snobs will now need to find new ways to one-up their fellow man :) "What? 100" Screen? Pfeh...everyone has one of those now....we just added a full multiplex onto our house with 20 foot screens" :D

I currently have a Panasonic XGA projector (PT-LC75U- which was a good HT projector 3 years ago) and a Dalite Model B HP screen. Do you guys think I would benefit from the Graywolf screen? My projector only has a 400:1 contrast ratio and I was looking for somethng that would improve my image while I save up for a major upgrade next year. I have a local Microcenter and was thinking about picking one up.

I just ordered a GrayWolf from B&H, so hopefully by this time next week I'll be able to give you guys my untrained-eye Opinion of the thing and how it mates with the H31 ceiling-mounted.

I also noticed waves in my cheapie screen last night and found them distracting in some areas.

Well, Buy.com has failed me as well. I emailed them this:

Hello Buy.com,
>
> My shipment actually hasn't shipped yet, and I understand that my screen is
> on order. But, I wanted to double check something with you.
>
> I spoke with several people who have purchased this Panoview Graywolf
> screen from your site but were shipped the incorrect Matte White version of
> the screen since both versions share the same part # in your database.
>
> I wanted to ask you to send a note with my order to the warehouse asking
> them to verify that the outside of the box says "Graywolf 1.8 gain" in big
> bold letters. If it does not and you cannot locate the correct 106" screen
> then please hold my order until we can try to work the issue.
>
> I appreciate your time and consideration in this matter - I'm only trying
> to save time and money on shipping for both of us by catching the problem
> before it happens.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Regards,
> Jon O.


Unfortunately this was their response:

At Buy.com we strive to provide the widest assortment of high-quality products at everyday low prices. However, sometimes circumstances beyond our control affect our selection.

We regret to inform you that supplier is unable to fulfill the order. We would request you to cancel the order and place a new order for it.

We sincerely apologize for this inconvenience. Please note you will not be charged for this cancelled item. If you have any questions, please visit customer support

So, this tells me that they do not have graywolf screens in the warehouse that services Nebraska. It doesn't make sense to place a new order as they request, so I think I will take my business elsewhere.

I don't want this thread to degenerate completely into a vendor discussion, but I thought everyone should know that even if you are very very specific about what you want it probably won't work.

I bet that's just the form letter that's the closest match to your request (i.e. the response to someone asking to change their order). Just order from buy - you'll soon have a sweet-ass stack of matte white screens in your garage like me!

I can relate.

Oh, let me reiterate that if you have a totally light controlled room, I wouldn't even hesitate to buy/keep the Graywolf. I'm just trying to fight with some ambient light issues as well.
What about for watching sports? Do you think I'll have to watch football in a cave in the morning or afternoon?

Tom or someone who has the correct Greywolf screen -

Can you tell me how gray the screen is with the lights on? How dark is it? Any pictures anywhere? Is it as dark as the Goo Screen Digital Gray?

Thanks,
Ken

Someone said its very grey...darker than the Dalite and Carada grey, or so I read here in another (or this) thread....

The Dark Grey gives the deep blacks, the glass beaded surface over it I guess is what punches up the gain so colors aren't muddied out and brightness isn't hurt....(???)

What about for watching sports? Do you think I'll have to watch football in a cave in the morning or afternoon?

I have one light in my living room which points up toward the ceiling. I've watched my Graywolf with this light on and it is watchable, but I prefer watching with the light out.

Tom or someone who has the correct Greywolf screen -

Can you tell me how gray the screen is with the lights on? How dark is it? Any pictures anywhere? Is it as dark as the Goo Screen Digital Gray?

Thanks,
Ken


Here are some pics I took of my Graywolf screen, hopefully this will help you judge the grayness. Hand held Nikon Coolpic 990 with flash, straight-on and from the side.

Sorry, see next post.

Tried to add URL but unable due to only 4 previous posts, should be able to add URL now.

Ken, here are some pics of the Graywolf screen.
BTW, in these first two photos you can see the line across the top of the screen that someone mentioned in an earlier post. I spoke to Optoma and was informed that the line should go away. It is noticeable in bright scenes.

Graywolf 1 (http://www.randgraphics.org/avs/graywolf1.JPG)

Graywolf 2 (http://www.randgraphics.org/avs/graywolf2.JPG)

A couple of screen shots, Graywolf and Sharp DT300. These are the typical 'Leeloo' shots. Same camera, hand held, no flash, once I get a tripod I'll shoot some more.

Leeloo 1 (http://www.randgraphics.org/avs/graywolf3.JPG)

Leeloo 2 (http://www.randgraphics.org/avs/graywolf4.JPG)