Just read through all 248 posts on this thread and didn't see anyone asking if this player can upconvert through component or if there is a hack? Problem is I have my DVI cable hooked up to my HD cable and DVI switchers are pretty expensive.

Also, I have a Denon AVR-3805 with a Denon Link. Would I somehow (maybe through the HDMI cable) be able to get digital SACD?
Match the 3805 with a 3910 and use DenonLink (DL3) - that way one cable will do your 2ch CD, DVD-V (DD/DTS), DVD-A and SACD. The upsideof this is that you don't have to ue the speakers settings in the player as the 3805 will do that for you via DL.

[QUOTE=Huskerfan]Just read through all 248 posts on this thread and didn't see anyone asking if this player can upconvert through component or if there is a hack? Problem is I have my DVI cable hooked up to my HD cable and DVI switchers are pretty expensive.

I am also wondering about this, can anybody confirm???????

Thanks Jennice. I did most of it myself. It was a lot of hard work. I was thinkin the 3910 cost quite a bit more. The money tree burned down after I was done with the HT!!! How bout my 1st question?

Husker,

I wouldn't know about your first question. I'm still hoping someone reads this thread, who owns or knows the old Onkyo CD player, and give a comment on a comparison...

Meanwhile I have finished my subs. My spuse has one primary requirement: It's supposed to be kept a livingroom with a home theatre in it, and not a home theatre with a livingroom.
However, I have managed to get my PLV-Z2 just above the sofa (couch?), and the DIY subs behind it. Each sub has a Peerless SLS-12 woofer and 70 liters. They're powered (like my main speakers, B&W 630), from a 4 channel DIY amp. My DD/DTS decoder is a smaller Denon receiver, which only has to handle the center and rear speakers in my 5.1 setup. The receiver has no line-out, so the front channels are taken from the speaker terminals via a voltage divider, and fed to my stereo pre-amp. (works surprisingly well, actually, and literally takes the heat off the receivers heat sink, when it only has to power 3 speakers). It was a requirement for both me and my spouse that there would still be ordinary stereo available.

Jennice

Winiwicki - I noticed the following when using the Denon dvd player with the Yamaha Receiver: As long as any device in your HDMI chain is DVI, the receiver will not play the HDMI audio signal. As soon as you remove the DVI device, the receiver will play the HDMI audio. In my case I was connecting a Optoma DLP projector which has a DVI input to the HDMI monitor output of the Receiver.

This may be of intrest of other readers.

Thanks

i just read through this thread and didn't see anything about Black Crush - before i pick one of these up tomorrow i just wnated to make sure that no one had any problems with Black Crush on their displays/projectors using the Denon 1920 (i will be using a hdmi-to-dvi cord). thanks!!!

Hi oleus,

How long will your cable be? I'm considering the 1920 myself (it's not available in Denmark yet - but soon). However, I wonder if I can get away with a 20 meter HDMI - DVI cable...

No black crush on my Pioneer 5050 through HDMI->HDMI. I have not seen any macroblocking yet either. Of course, HDMI->DVI will compress color depth, so black crush may or may not be an issue in that setup.

Uhhmm.... *feeling dumb*

Now what's "black crush"? Gee.. I keep learning stuff in here.

Jennice

Basically, all dark-gray to black tones being displayed as black -- loss of tonal range on the extreme dark end.

The answer to "what is white crush" is left to the reader as an exercise ;)

...The answer to "what is white crush" is left to the reader as an exercise ;)

:D :D :D :D :D
Ican almost guess it. ;)

Jennice

Just read through all 248 posts on this thread and didn't see anyone asking if this player can upconvert through component or if there is a hack? Problem is I have my DVI cable hooked up to my HD cable and DVI switchers are pretty expensive.




Found the answer to this on another thread: NO

I have been following this thread, comparing the Panasonic S97S with the Denon 1920, but something puzzles me. Is the Denon 1920 the same unit… as the Denon 756? I printed out their spec sheets off of the Denon website, and they both look identical except for one thing. The 1920 literature states in two different places that it has 12-bit, 108 MHz Video D/A Converters, while the 756 literature states in two different places that it has 11-bit, 216 MHz Video D/A Converters, as does the S97S. Is this a typo, or is the 756 superior to the 1920. I have seen a 756S for $349, and would we consider the S97S a “Best Buy” at $269 including the HDMI cable?

I just reviewed the hometheaterhifi DVD shootout benchmark, and based on video performance the S97S was ranked just under the 5910 and 3910, and ahead of nearly everything else. What does anyone make of this benchmark?

Here's the link

I found a different area on Denon's website that states the same for both the 1920 and 756 models.

"Powered with DCDi by Faroudja FLI-2301 Decoding Engine • Discrete 216 MHz, 11 bit Video D/A Conversion system for Progressive output and 108MHz, 10 bit for Interlaced outputs."

This explains their literature mistakes, but why... two exact models... is beyond me.

I also noticed both the 1920 and 756 still use the FLI-2301, while the 5900, 3910, Oppo and S97S use the FLI-2310. The digital only 2310, dropped 525p Macrovision, CGMS-A, and analog RGB, YPrPb, output support. But, I wonder if the FLI-2310, which was developed for flat-panel and LCOS/DLP/Digital projection, has any advantages over the 2301. It just seems the top rated players in the DVD shootout benchmark have the FLI-2310. Probably just a coincidence....

The Denon 1910 and 755 were the exact same DVD player except the 755 was silver. I assume the same can be said of the 1920 and 756.

The players are the same. Denon uses different model #'s to allow for different sales channels. Just like the receivers.

Got one from crutchfield. One I receved seemed like a defect as I could hear disk spinning from 6' away. PQ was good, but not exceptional. Overall build quality of the player seemed sort of cheap for something that costs as much as it does. After a week, I returned it. Frankly, I just don't see much difference in PQ between these up-converting players from ordinary players.

Got one from crutchfield. One I receved seemed like a defect as I could hear disk spinning from 6' away. PQ was good, but not exceptional. Overall build quality of the player seemed sort of cheap for something that costs as much as it does. After a week, I returned it. Frankly, I just don't see much difference in PQ between these up-converting players from ordinary players.

What's your remaining setup (screen, video connectio etc.)?

Jennice

Oh yeah!

Check out MonoPrice (http://www.monoprice.com) for affordable Component and HDMI/DVI cables.

In which way? How would you describe the improvements?


Someone in this thread planned to compare the component outputs of a H/K player to the Denon 1920. Was this comparison ever done? What was the outcome?

Jennice

It was me. No, I haven't done the comparison yet. Maybe later this week.

Nice pictures from the inside: http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200508/denon19202/ :cool:.

Must be the European model. Shows DivX emblem and I believe that's a scart in the middle.

Those ARE nice pictures.

In which way? How would you describe the improvements?
In general picture quality will improve going from Composite Video --> S-Video --> Component/HDMI/DVI.

I'm not a familiar with the technical aspects of different types of video connections, but both Component and HDMI/DVI carry more video information as compared to the S-Video connections and Composite. If your TV has inputs for either Component/HDMI/DVI connections, I'd recommend you use it. You should be able to notice the difference in picture quality.

Here is a simple explaination from Wikipedia:

"S-Video will appear better than composite video since the television does not have to split the brightness and color information that are found together on composite video. The main advantages of separating these two signals are for better bandwidth of luminance and more effective work of chroma decoder."

Component, I think, keeps the signal in 3 separate (Red, Green, Blue signals that make up a TV image) connections. The original image is preserved as completely as possible, all the way from the source to the display. The display device doesn't have to do any work seperating any of the combined or composite signals into the red, green and blue channels for final display.
This connection will also give you a Progressive Scan image while a S-Video connection will not.

"The first channel is luminance, (notated Y, the standard abbreviation for intensity). The luminance is the signal’s brightness information only, and includes no colour data. The Y signal by itself gives a black and white picture. The other two channels are called colour difference. They’re notated R-Y and B-Y, and are the difference between red and the luminance and the difference between blue and the luminance, respectively. The colour difference channels can be algebraically recombined with the luminance to give a full colour picture, without having to transmit the green data that, on most video, takes up more bandwidth than the other two colours put together (on average, green is 59% of a video signal). "

Both S-Video & Component are analog connections while DVI/HDMI are said to provide a "digital" connection between your DVD player and TV.

I don't mean to prove my suggestion using quotes from other places, but I'm not enough of a Techie to give you this info offhand. :-) Hope this helps.

EDIT: If you were just asking me what difference I noted, I found the component to give a cleaner, sharper picture with better black levels over the s-video connection.

Nice pictures from the inside: http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200508/denon19202/ :cool:.

Interesting, looks like one Burr-Brown DSD-1608 DAC huh? So much for the 1738s or whatever we thought were in there. Doh!

Hi all! Should I leave DRC on in the 1920 audio setting? It says it compresses the sound or something like that. Wouldnt that make the sound quieter?
thanks!

Must be the European model. Shows DivX emblem and I believe that's a scart in the middle.

Those ARE nice pictures.


The DVD region 2 sign on the rear panel could give a hint, too ;)

Jennice

Regarding all this "different or the same" model talk starting with the (possibly) different D/A-C's in the 1920 DVD, I came across something similar:

I have been considering the 1906 surround-receiver, and have searched for a manual. The nearest thing I could find was a spec sheet on www.denon.com's US site. There, it does not seem to have RDS on the radio, but I read the specs so, that it should upconversion from video (composite) to S-video, and from S-video to component.
On the european version of the same model (on the outside, that is!) it has RDS radio, and no upconversion from S-video to component! (That last difference is the feature I was originally looking for :( )
I got this confirmed from Denon's local ( == danish) distributor, that there were actually regional differences on quite a few models!

Thus, I suppose we should be careful about comparing and confusing data sheets, as there may well be differences. This should be taken into consideration when reading reviews, too, I suppose.

As the 2805 or 3805 receivers (which have up-conversion to component) would bust my HT budget for years to come, I am aiming at a way to do without video-upconversion. This means that I will need two cable sets to the projector. *pout*

This brings up my next, related, question regarding the 1920 DVD:
Does the user have to select the desired video output, or does it send the output to all connections simultaniously? My aim is to connect my TV via S-video and the projector via component. Is that possible, or is the video sent to one (selectable) socket only?

Jennice

On my 1920, the output goes to all connections simultaniously.

Is anyone using a Denon AVR-3805 remote to control their 1920? What code did you use? I've tried all the Denon remote codes in the AVR-3805 manual but I can't get the remote to work with the 1920.

Thanks!!

On my 1920, the output goes to all connections simultaniously.


Thanks ! :)
Jennice

I'm not a familiar with the technical aspects of different types of video connections, but both Component and HDMI/DVI carry more video information as compared to the S-Video connections and Composite.

Not quite. They all carry the same amount of info (more or less, there are a bit of difference in capacity, but for DVD video, they all carry the same amount of info), just packaged differently.

Component, I think, keeps the signal in 3 separate (Red, Green, Blue signals that make up a TV image) connections. The original image is preserved as completely as possible, all the way from the source to the display. The display device doesn't have to do any work seperating any of the combined or composite signals into the red, green and blue channels for final display.
This connection will also give you a Progressive Scan image while a S-Video connection will not.

Actually, there is no red, green or blue signals, which depending upon where the sync signal is are knows as RGsB, RGBS, or RGBHV, in any of the analog connections (composite, S, component) you describe. All of them carry two pieces of info:
Luma (Y) - The lumance info (the black and white or grayscale portion of the picture if you will)
Chroma (C) - The chrominance info (the color info).

In a composite signal, these are combined to run on a single wire, thus the display has to extract the Y and C info from the same wire. This can lead to issues especially in the high frequencies.

In an S-Video, the Y and C info is send on different but tiny and close wires. Thus a bit better.

In component, the Y is sent on one channel (the green connector, but it has nothing to do with the color green in the image) and the C is sent on two channels (Pb, Pr). These are known as YPbPr or YUV most commonly.

DVI and HDMI can send data in a digital form of component known as YCbCr (just like component, only with some number of bits representing the signal instead of an analog waveform) or also as RGB (actual red/green/blue signals). DVI can handle 8 bits (you only get 256 shades of gray with computer encoding less with video encoding), while HDMI can handle 8, 10, or 12 bit. Recently we have seen some 10 bit displays come out. An analog device like a CRT projector can theoretically handle an infinite number of steps of gray because it is an analog waveform (all digital encoding is just a fixed number of steps approximation of an analog wave).

On a DVD, data is stored as 8 bit YCbCr (in a scheme known as MPEG2 which is a 4:2:0 encoding).

Not quite. They all carry the same amount of info (more or less, there are a bit of difference in capacity, but for DVD video, they all carry the same amount of info), just packaged differently.



Actually, there is no red, green or blue signals, which depending upon where the sync signal is are knows as RGsB, RGBS, or RGBHV, in any of the analog connections (composite, S, component) you describe. All of them carry two pieces of info:
Luma (Y) - The lumance info (the black and white or grayscale portion of the picture if you will)
Chroma (C) - The chrominance info (the color info).

In a composite signal, these are combined to run on a single wire, thus the display has to extract the Y and C info from the same wire. This can lead to issues especially in the high frequencies.

In an S-Video, the Y and C info is send on different but tiny and close wires. Thus a bit better.

In component, the Y is sent on one channel (the green connector, but it has nothing to do with the color green in the image) and the C is sent on two channels (Pb, Pr). These are known as YPbPr or YUV most commonly.

DVI and HDMI can send data in a digital form of component known as YCbCr (just like component, only with some number of bits representing the signal instead of an analog waveform) or also as RGB (actual red/green/blue signals). DVI can handle 8 bits (you only get 256 shades of gray with computer encoding less with video encoding), while HDMI can handle 8, 10, or 12 bit. Recently we have seen some 10 bit displays come out. An analog device like a CRT projector can theoretically handle an infinite number of steps of gray because it is an analog waveform (all digital encoding is just a fixed number of steps approximation of an analog wave).

On a DVD, data is stored as 8 bit YCbCr (in a scheme known as MPEG2 which is a 4:2:0 encoding).
I knew someone would come along and explain everything properly. Thanks for jumping in when you did. :rolleyes:

EDIT: Jennice I hope you're reading all this. :D

Hello, does any one knows how this player compares to the Philips DVP-9000S.

I have a HD plasma and want the best picture possible via HDMI.

DVI can handle 8 bits (you only get 256 shades of gray with computer encoding less with video encoding), while HDMI can handle 8, 10, or 12 bit.
One correction -- it's 8 (or 10, or 12) bits PER COLOR.

I knew someone would come along and explain everything properly. Thanks for jumping in when you did. :rolleyes:

EDIT: Jennice I hope you're reading all this. :D


I Sure am, and with great interest :)

Not that I understand every word, but I get the idea ;)
This is reason enough for me to try to make a component cable if I get the player.

Jennice

One correction -- it's 8 (or 10, or 12) bits PER COLOR.


If I understand the previous post correctly, it is indeed 8 bits (for this example of colour depth) PER COLOUR, but since "clean" grey has the same value on the three colours, we're back to 256, and not 256^3.

Am I correct?

Jennice

Well, it's 256^3 unique colors for 8-bits (16 million). It's correct that an 8-bit display (or one that's driven by DVI) can only display 256 unique shades of neutral gray.

Here's how Pioneer describes its 10-bit plasma displays (from the product detail on Pioneer's web site for PDP 5050HD):

True 10-bit Grey Scale - 1,792 Gradation Steps for Each Red, Green and Blue Cell Resulting in Well Over 1 Billion Colors

(note: over 1 billion is essentially 1024^3)

One correction -- it's 8 (or 10, or 12) bits PER COLOR.

Correct, I left out those two words in my quicky typing. Thanks for pointing that out.

If I understand the previous post correctly, it is indeed 8 bits (for this example of colour depth) PER COLOUR, but since "clean" grey has the same value on the three colours, we're back to 256, and not 256^3.

Am I correct?

Jennice

Yep, you are correct. The black and white of something like Sin City only has 256 shades of gray. Different technologies handle this with varying degrees of success. If you watch this on a DLP, you are likely to see false conturing whereas if you watch it on a CRT, the gaussian blur of the beam spot will actually smooth it out and "add" more shades of gray, thus it will be a much smoother gradiant.

Dave

I had a look at www.denon.de, the german site (which is responsible for (amongst others) scandinavia. They state the video-D/A-convert as follows:
Video D/A-Wandler (Edit: wandler = converter)
216 MHz / 11-Bit (ADV7322) für Progressive
108 MHz / 10-Bit für Interlaced
This could explain the different data seen on different places and mentioned earlier in this thread.

the audio-D/A-c is stated:
8-Kanal Audio D/A-Wandler - 192 kHz / 24-Bit (Burr-Brown DSD1608).
I think this fits the images of the 1920, which someone posted. It's not the PCM1738 ststed in the danish shop's info, but if it still sounds ok, I guess that's the most important...

Jennice

I had a look at www.denon.de, the german site (which is responsible for (amongst others) scandinavia. They state the video-D/A-convert as follows:
Video D/A-Wandler (Edit: wandler = converter)
216 MHz / 11-Bit (ADV7322) für Progressive
108 MHz / 10-Bit für Interlaced
This could explain the different data seen on different places and mentioned earlier in this thread.

the audio-D/A-c is stated:
8-Kanal Audio D/A-Wandler - 192 kHz / 24-Bit (Burr-Brown DSD1608).
I think this fits the images of the 1920, which someone posted. It's not the PCM1738 ststed in the danish shop's info, but if it still sounds ok, I guess that's the most important...

Jennice

Where the 8 ch is 5.1 (6) and the 2 L/R stereo uitputs, makes it 8.
Still a shame that SACD can't play all channels over the HDMI (as i understand it).

I'm thinking about getting this DVD-1920 to pair with my Sharp 37D5U LCD HDTV that I just got from Costco. I'm between this and getting a DVHS recorder.

This would be my first up-converting DVD player. For anyone that has a Sharp LCD or similar, how much better will the DVD image look? (I'm coming from a 2 year old Sony progressive scan player). I see mixed results with people that get their first up-converting player, from people who say it is near-HD quality to people who say it's no better than their $40 Wal-mart special DVD player. I see a a lot of comments about macroblocking. Is this worse with Plasmas than LCD's? The Sharp is 1368x768, which is better than most 42" and under plasmas that are 1024x768. Will this help with the macro-blocking problem?

Thanks for everyone's help! This 1920 looks like a really great player for the price.

This would be my first up-converting DVD player. For anyone that has a Sharp LCD or similar, how much better will the DVD image look? (I'm coming from a 2 year old Sony progressive scan player). I

On your display it will not make a difference and in fact may hurt the picture quality. Your display is 1366x768 or 768p. The upconverting players output 720p or 1080i (NN puts out 1080p). So, your display is going to have to scale whatever comes in, so if you send it an upconverted signal, there is scaling going on twice--not a good idea.

Since deinterlacing of properly flagged material is easier in the DVD player than in the display, your best bet is to just use a good progressive player. You didn't say the Sony model, but it is likely something like a Denon 2900 would be a nice upgrade, or you can get any of the upscaling players and use them in 480p if you find their signal cleaner or more detailed than your current one. If this is not for multichannel audio, but just for movie watching, I'd look at the Panny S97 also. I liked its PQ better than the 1920.

Dave

On your display it will not make a difference and in fact may hurt the picture quality. Your display is 1366x768 or 768p. The upconverting players output 720p or 1080i (NN puts out 1080p). So, your display is going to have to scale whatever comes in, so if you send it an upconverted signal, there is scaling going on twice--not a good idea.
(snip)
Dave



Interesting issue about scaling twice.
I am going from an el-cheapo player to (probably) the 1920, and will be connecting it via component (composite for now - I have to get cables first). It'll be analogue since it's almost 20 meters (!).
The projector is a Sanyo PLV-Z2, which runs at 1280 x 720 native resolution.
What do you think would be my best settings on the 1920, if there is anything to adjust at all (?) when running analogue?

Jennice

I had a look at denon.de, the german site (which is responsible for (amongst others) scandinavia. They state the video-D/A-convert as follows:
Video D/A-Wandler (Edit: wandler = converter)
216 MHz / 11-Bit (ADV7322) für Progressive
108 MHz / 10-Bit für Interlaced
This could explain the different data seen on different places and mentioned earlier in this thread.

Jennice


Look at this Attachmant !

Does anyone know an Info-Link about this new? Matsushita/Panasonic MPEG-Decoder ??
Better than ESS, MTK or Zoran ??

I finally compared the picture quality via component from the 1920 with my Harman Kardon DVD 25.

Setup:
HK DVD 25 set to 480i via component
Denon 1920 set to 480i via component
Denon 1920 set to 720p via HDMI
All inputs calibrated via Digital Video Essentials
Pioneer 5050HD PDP (with DRE on)
Test DVD: Lost Season 1, disc 3

Via component, the 1920 had a slight edge over the HK, mainly in highlight detail. Actually, I was surprised at how well the 3-year old HK stood up to the new Denon (note that the 480p output via component from the HK is inferior to the 480i output -- the PDP does a better job deinterlacing).

The HDMI connection from the 1920 (via the Faroudja chip) had better PQ than both component outputs, but not by much. Mainly, the HDMI output had better highlight and shadow detail compared to the component output of the Denon or the HK, and perhaps just a tiny bit better picture detail.

Conclusion: great picture quality from both players. Two years ago, the HK cost a bit more than what I paid for the Denon a couple of weeks ago, and in both cases, my money was well spent!

(I'm currently selling the HK DVD 25 on eBay in case anyone is interested)

Are you minkyno on ebay?

Yes.

Not to threadjack, but my DVD 25 accepts PAL and converts it to NTSC. You have it saying NTSC only.

Indeed not to threadjack, but how can a DVD player "accept" PAL, or NTSC, or such? These are TV broadcast formats and are only relevant to TV/VCR/DVR tuners as an input format. DVDs are recorded in a different coding scheme (MPEG-2). DVD players convert the signal in MPEG-2 to something the TV could understand, and output that format. In the case of DVD players sold in the U.S and Canada., that format is NTSC. The DVD 25s sold in North America do not have an option to output PAL.

Anyway, are you looking to upgrade to the 1920 as well?

Another Crutchfield coupon. This time it's 50 dollars off:

Coupon Code: PA440
Use code at checkout.


This coupon will get you 50 dollars off your order bringing the DVD-1920 down to 299 with free shipping.

any expiration date?

jim

My DVD 25 was sold and bought in North America and it accepts PAL and either displays it as PAL or converts it to NTSC. So does the DVD 22, even though it's a POS.

any expiration date?

jim

Probably the day you try to use it ;)

Try this

pz192-basd7-sh9u4

thats a referral code. does it stack with the 50 off? :D

wow, sneaky.

I bought three DVD players in the $200 to $400 range and held the "battle of the DVD players".

My testing included:
Oppo OPDV971H
Denon DVD-1920
Panasonic S97S

Test configuration:
Samsung HL-R6768 DLP 1080p
HDMI (or DVI to HDMI for the Oppo - shame on them)
upconverting in the DVD player to 1080i
optical digital audio via my AV receiver
TV set to movie mode with default picture settings and watched in near darkness
DVD player set to defaults

I know that with careful calibration these results might be significantly altered. I just didn't have time to mess with each of them to calibrate and compete them at their best. Manufacturers should put a lot of careful thought into their defaults since probably half their customers never alter them!

I stared with the Oppo and initially really liked the picture. But I had a lot of problems with lipsync that couldn't even be overcome with the built-in delay at the max value of 50ms. There also seemed to be some variability in video lag even on the same scene. I did not see any macroblocking.

Then I moved to the Denon 1920 and I must say that I liked the picture much better than the Oppo. The colors seemed more balanced and realistic. I could see more detail in the picture as well. To me this was really evident watching LOTR Fellowship Extended which is a good example of a really well mastered DVD. The Denon was not as quick/responsive as the Oppo but it felt more solid, looked better (nice traditional black), and had a better picture. I had fewer audio/video sync problems with the Denon even though it lacks a built-in programmable delay feature. What little lag I experienced on a few DVDs will be solved by my receiver delay feature.

Finally I tested the S97. This player had good color like the Denon but lacked the sharpness and detail that I saw with the Denon. Too bad because I really loved the menus, controls, user interface, responsiveness, etc. of the S97. It seriously nailed the user interface compared to the Oppo or Denon. But I don't like its overstyled silver chassis or the cheesy messages on the display. I guess I'm not very flamboyant in the appearance of my AV gear.

PQ is king and for me the Denon really was superior to the Oppo or Panasonic.

So, to make a long story short (too late), I am returning the Oppo. But I do think the Oppo is a great player for its cost. In my own situation, I'd rather pay nearly double for the Denon 1920. The S97 is going back as well.

Incidentally, and not of much value to me, the Denon 1920 is reported to have unusually excellent analog audio performance for its class. Hence people who are looking for analog should check that out.

-Dan

I'm thinking about getting this DVD-1920 to pair with my Sharp 37D5U LCD HDTV that I just got from Costco. I'm between this and getting a DVHS recorder.

This would be my first up-converting DVD player. For anyone that has a Sharp LCD or similar, how much better will the DVD image look? (I'm coming from a 2 year old Sony progressive scan player). I see mixed results with people that get their first up-converting player, from people who say it is near-HD quality to people who say it's no better than their $40 Wal-mart special DVD player. I see a a lot of comments about macroblocking. Is this worse with Plasmas than LCD's? The Sharp is 1368x768, which is better than most 42" and under plasmas that are 1024x768. Will this help with the macro-blocking problem?

HeelPhan,

The 1920 will definitely provide excellent picture quality with your Sharp 37". I have the LC37g4u, and the upconverted picture at 720P is phenomenal, much better than 480i/p. The macroblocking issue can be taken care of by doing the following:
Connect HDMI and Component video to different inputs on your LCD
When MB occurs (frequently on TV shows on DVD, very rarely on movies), switch your TV to component input and turn off the HDMI input (have to get off the couch for this one :( ). This will allow 480p out of component. Still provides an excellent picture on my Aquos for shows with bad MB.

Try the 1920 from crutchfield, you won't be disappointed--and if you are, you can return it!

On your display it will not make a difference and in fact may hurt the picture quality. Your display is 1366x768 or 768p. The upconverting players output 720p or 1080i (NN puts out 1080p). So, your display is going to have to scale whatever comes in, so if you send it an upconverted signal, there is scaling going on twice--not a good idea.

Since deinterlacing of properly flagged material is easier in the DVD player than in the display, your best bet is to just use a good progressive player.

:confused:
Sorry Dave, I'm not following your logic here, and my eyes don't agree with your conclusions. 720p picture is outstanding on the Aquos

Enjoy,

--tb

HeelPhan,

The macroblocking issue can be taken care of by doing the following:
Connect HDMI and Component video to different inputs on your LCD
When MB occurs (frequently on TV shows on DVD, very rarely on movies), switch your TV to component input and turn off the HDMI input (have to get off the couch for this one :( ). This will allow 480p out of component. Still provides an excellent picture on my Aquos for shows with bad MB. ...


Here comes the newbie again...:
Is macroblocking only an issue on the digital output? I thought it was an issue with the data on the disc, not the handling of it afterwards (in the DVD player).
Now I'm REALLY confused.

Jennice

Here comes the newbie again...:
Is macroblocking only an issue on the digital output? I thought it was an issue with the data on the disc, not the handling of it afterwards (in the DVD player).
Now I'm REALLY confused.

Jennice

Although players using a Faroudja FLI23xx may differ between outputs, I see it when using either component or DVI with my Zenith DVB318. Most players using an FLI23xx chip won't upscale over component but those that will likely suffer from the macroblocking enhancement over component and HDMI/DVI. Whether the problem originates from data on the disc and is enhanced by the Faroudja FLI23xx players or it is completely added by the Faroudja FLI23xx players while players not using that chip either overcome or aren't affected by macroblocking with the same DVDs isn't clear to me. The traditional macroblocking was indeed a disc problem, this macroblocking enhancement as discussed here is caused or at least greatly increased by these Faroudja FLI23xx players.

Chris

I bought three DVD players in the $200 to $400 range and held the "battle of the DVD players".

My testing included:
Oppo OPDV971H
Denon DVD-1920
Panasonic S97S

... PQ is king and for me the Denon really was superior to the Oppo or Panasonic.

-DanThanks Dan, your review is greatly appreciated as all 3 DVD players were on my short list.

Is there a region free firmware yet? or divx upgrade?

I know that with careful calibration these results might be significantly altered. -Dan
Hard to believe you would send back the Oppo or the S97 without setting them up using DVE or Avia test discs. You'll never know which one would have been best for your display (if calibrated). FYI, the 1080i picture on the Oppo is crap compared to its' 720p output. The Oppo really is optomised for 720p.


Then I moved to the Denon 1920 and I must say that I liked the picture much better than the Oppo. The colors seemed more balanced and realistic. -Dan

I'd like to point out here that the Denon is utilizing an MPEG decoder designed and manufactured by Panasonic (Matsushita).

Finally I tested the S97. This player had good color like the Denon but lacked the sharpness and detail that I saw with the Denon. Too bad because I really loved the menus, controls, user interface, responsiveness, etc. of the S97. It seriously nailed the user interface compared to the Oppo or Denon. But I don't like its overstyled silver chassis or the cheesy messages on the display. I guess I'm not very flamboyant in the appearance of my AV gear.
-Dan

The S97 has more accurate sharpness levels than the Denon. The 1920 has detail/sharpness defaults set higher than either the S97 or the Oppo. This is probably in the way Denon has set-up the FLI-2301 (TrueLife). So, to the uncalibrated display, the Denon appears sharper. But close comparison of the two using film based material, especially on multiple displays, as I have observed, reveals more noise in the Denon's PQ. This was noted time after time and is not present in the Denon 2910 or 3910, which also utilize Faroudja processing.

The Denon may be easy to pick if you do not plan to calibrate your display and use the default settings on the DVD player, but the Panasonic is more rewarding if you take the time to set it up properly and utilize the picture adjustments to your display. Oh, and BTW, the cheesy messages on the Panasonic can be turned off. It's on the last page of the set-up menu. :)

I pitted the Denon 1920 head-to-head with the S97 for 30 days. I kept the S97 and sent the Denon back. It's slow layer change, lack of advanced audio/video settings, and higher video noise levels on all my calibrated displays with less than reference quality test discs were the deciding factors. That, and the fact that it weighs about a pound and a half. Build quality is always a concern of mine. The Panasonic just feels more substantial. I think it weighs about three pounds. :D

I liked the Denon, but my top two players are the Pioneer 59Avi and the S97 for now.

The S97 has more accurate sharpness levels than the Denon. The 1920 has detail/sharpness defaults set higher than either the S97 or the Oppo. This is probably in the way Denon has set-up the FLI-2301 (TrueLife). So, to the uncalibrated display, the Denon appears sharper. But close comparison of the two using film based material, especially on multiple displays, as I have observed, reveals more noise in the Denon's PQ.

This is exactly what I found also.

I pitted the Denon 1920 head-to-head with the S97 for 30 days. I kept the S97 and sent the Denon back. It's slow layer change, lack of advanced audio/video settings, and higher video noise levels on all my calibrated displays with less than reference quality test discs were the deciding factors.

This is exactly what I did.

Dave

HeelPhan,


:confused:
Sorry Dave, I'm not following your logic here, and my eyes don't agree with your conclusions. 720p picture is outstanding on the Aquos

Enjoy,

--tb

It is not categorically true, but there should be little difference between sending a 768p display a 480p or a 720p signal. 720p means double scaling (once in DVD player 480p->720p, once in display 720p->768p). The only way the a 720p signal should be better is if the Displays scaler is very good at 720p->768p and bad at 480p->768p. In this case, the double scaling would possibly be better. Have you compared 480p to 720p to see if there is in fact a difference and what it is?

Dave

The Denon may be easy to pick if you do not plan to calibrate your display and use the default settings on the DVD player, but the Panasonic is more rewarding if you take the time to set it up properly and utilize the picture adjustments to your display. Oh, and BTW, the cheesy messages on the Panasonic can be turned off. It's on the last page of the set-up menu. :)


Just curious, did you do a full calibration (user-controls, grayscale, gamma,etc.) on your display in between players or was it just a user calibration (sharpness, bightness, contrast, color, tint)?

Just curious, did you do a full calibration (user-controls, grayscale, gamma,etc.) on your display in between players or was it just a user calibration (sharpness, bightness, contrast, color, tint)?

Displays were both ISF calibrated previously (Panasonic plasma and Zenith HD CRT Tube ), while the players were set-up to the displays using their picture controls with both DVE and Avia discs. The settings for the Denon 1920 and Panasonic S97 were very close, while the Oppo required its' brightness set at +5 to get a full video signal (BTB & WTW). The Denon needed its' sharpness control backed down to -1 to reduce the ringing on test patterns on both DVE and Avia.

I just had the feeling that Denon was holding back a little on this player in order to preserve sales of the 2910.

It is not categorically true, but there should be little difference between sending a 768p display a 480p or a 720p signal. 720p means double scaling (once in DVD player 480p->720p, once in display 720p->768p). The only way the a 720p signal should be better is if the Displays scaler is very good at 720p->768p and bad at 480p->768p. In this case, the double scaling would possibly be better. Have you compared 480p to 720p to see if there is in fact a difference and what it is?

Dave

Dave,

While I haven't done any real testing, I have spent some time comparing 480p to 720p. I have found that the Denon/Aquos combination produces a much more detailed image when the HDMI output is set at 720p. Unfortunately, this also makes for very bad macroblocking on some content (5%, give or take). In these cases, I use the TV's 480p-768p scaler (why don't they just make LCDs 720p!?! :( ) to eliminate the MB issue, at the expense of some image detail. The scaler in my Aquos produces a slightly softer image than the Faroudja. Still good, but not *as* good (on non-MB content). I'm not sure if that's what you were looking for...

--tb

Here comes the newbie again...:
Is macroblocking only an issue on the digital output? I thought it was an issue with the data on the disc, not the handling of it afterwards (in the DVD player).
Now I'm REALLY confused.

Jennice

Jennice,

The truth is, it's both! It's only a problem with some content, but the scaler in the Denon seems to make it worse. And it also gets worse at higher resolutions (component doesn't go higher than 480p, HDMI does up to 720p). You shouldn't notice MB on the component or HDMI outputs at 480p unless you are really looking for it (and if you are, you need to find more interesting content! :p )

Hope this helps,

--tb

You shouldn't notice MB on the component or HDMI outputs at 480p unless you are really looking for it
I picked up a 1920 last week and overall I'm very pleased with the purchase, however the first DVD I put in it was a Michael Jordan video and it was almost unwatchable IMO. Since then, we've watched a few movies and they've been gorgeous. (I haven't received my HDMI cable yet, so this is all with component cables at 480p.) Hopefully not all content from TV will be as ugly... but I guess I'll be watching my classic b-ball games on the bedroom set-up.

Concerning the power off business, I had my 1920 connected to my infocus 4805 via HDMI, and after 45 min watching a DVD, the player went off completely! not even in stand-by more. I let it run again and after 40 min,same problem. It looks like I am the only one to have seen this problem. I didn't try another connection, but there is definitely a flaw in the power on/off of the Denon.

Jennice,

The truth is, it's both! It's only a problem with some content, but the scaler in the Denon seems to make it worse. And it also gets worse at higher resolutions (component doesn't go higher than 480p, HDMI does up to 720p). You shouldn't notice MB on the component or HDMI outputs at 480p unless you are really looking for it (and if you are, you need to find more interesting content! :p )

Hope this helps,

--tb


I do indeed hope to watch things that draw my attention from searching for MB errors. :D

However, if I understand you correctly, HD content can never be shown (correctly) over an analogue connection???

Jennice

I picked up a 1920 last week and overall I'm very pleased with the purchase, however the first DVD I put in it was a Michael Jordan video and it was almost unwatchable IMO. Since then, we've watched a few movies and they've been gorgeous. (I haven't received my HDMI cable yet, so this is all with component cables at 480p.) Hopefully not all content from TV will be as ugly... but I guess I'll be watching my classic b-ball games on the bedroom set-up.

I'm just guessing here, but could this have something to do with the DVD being shot on video?

Mark

Concerning the power off business, I had my 1920 connected to my infocus 4805 via HDMI, and after 45 min watching a DVD, the player went off completely! not even in stand-by more. I let it run again and after 40 min,same problem. It looks like I am the only one to have seen this problem. I didn't try another connection, but there is definitely a flaw in the power on/off of the Denon.





Other than the on off issue how is the picture quality? Do you notice any MB? I too have a 4805 and am looking at buying a Denon 1920 and connecting it through HDMI. I keep hearing all this MB nonsense and am getting concerned that I might be looking at the wrong DVD player.

So do you have it hooked up HDMI or Component and if so do you experience any macroblocking with the 4805

You seem to be the only one I have found that has the same set up I want.


Thanks!
D

However, if I understand you correctly, HD content can never be shown (correctly) over an analogue connection???

Only if the cable has a significant amount of silver in its conductor.

There are component cables out there that can fully conduct all of HDs glorious bandwidth, but none of the even "entry level" Monster component cables can do this.

However, if I understand you correctly, HD content can never be shown (correctly) over an analogue connection???

Only if the cable has a significant amount of silver in its conductor.

There are component cables out there that can fully conduct all of HDs glorious bandwidth, but none of the even "entry level" Monster component cables can do this.



So it's not a "design" limitation in the component output, but a matter of cable capacitance limiting bandwidth?

Well, in terms of a DVD player, I wouldn't expect the signal to be all that that a true HD signal can be, but as far as I know, yes. If I'm wrong, I love to be proven so. :)

Other than the on off issue how is the picture quality? Do you notice any MB? I too have a 4805 and am looking at buying a Denon 1920 and connecting it through HDMI. I keep hearing all this MB nonsense and am getting concerned that I might be looking at the wrong DVD player.

So do you have it hooked up HDMI or Component and if so do you experience any macroblocking with the 4805

You seem to be the only one I have found that has the same set up I want.


Thanks!
D
I've been watching xXx and finding Nemo so far, and I haven't noticed any MB at all. I'm using the DVI input. Any recommodation of DVDs to watch to see it? Alien?

Well, in terms of a DVD player, I wouldn't expect the signal to be all that that a true HD signal can be, but as far as I know, yes. If I'm wrong, I love to be proven so. :)


I'm asking this because I have almost 20 meters of cable from the player to the projector. A normal DVI/HDMI cable will not do this. It'll be fine with an "ordinary" DVD signal, but I will have to use an analogue cable from any future HD source to the projector. If this by definition prevents me from ever transmitting a HD signal, I'm in trouble... :eek:

Jennice

Comparing to the s97s; if the 1920 has selectable audio delay, what does this go upto?
The panny is in increments of 10ms to 100ms.

I cannot get the HDMI Audio option in set-up to change from 2 channel to multi-channel. I have audio (the option just above this) set to HDMI. Have you guys been able to do it? How?

Does the device you have the HDMI cable connected to support multi channel HDMI? With my player connected to my Sony tv it will only allow 2 channel because thats all the tv supports.

The device it is connected to is an HDMI in on the receiver. I am using HDMI only for audio.

it could be your receiver does not support HDMI 1.1 which is the new version that passes multi-ch audio. how old is your receiver?

jim

and BTW are you trying DVD-A or SACD? HDMI 1.1 will not pass SACD.

It is a new Denon 4806. DVD-A only.

maybe you need to set-up HDMI multi-ch in the receiver menu?

I have an HDMI problem that I cannot see mentioned anywhere else. I basically get no image at all with HDMI using an 8m Supra HDMI cable from the Denon 1920 to a Panny AE700. The DVD player says there is a connection, and this is validated as if I turn off the PJ, the HDMI light on the player flashes to indicate there is no complete connection.

I think I have have tried all the output setting on the 1920 I was just wondering if there is some setting on the AE700 I am missing. S-Video and RGB Scart work just fine.

I have an HDMI problem that I cannot see mentioned anywhere else. I basically get no image at all with HDMI using an 8m Supra HDMI cable from the Denon 1920 to a Panny AE700. The DVD player says there is a connection, and this is validated as if I turn off the PJ, the HDMI light on the player flashes to indicate there is no complete connection.

I think I have have tried all the output setting on the 1920 I was just wondering if there is some setting on the AE700 I am missing. S-Video and RGB Scart work just fine.


I think you just gave the answer to my considerations...
The standard does not guarantee a link at that cable length. Maybe that's your problem? :(

Jennice

Man!! This player seems like an EMPTY BOX!! May be they used PAPER CIRCUITS! :rolleyes:

This is a very ignorant question on my part but is macroblocking visible on a crt rear projection?

I really want to use HDMI rather than an analogue signal, but 8m is the shortest I can go.

Should the 1920 in theory be able to power an HDMI signal over 8M (27') cable - Bettercables supply up to 31m (101').

Will this player do 1080i over componet for NON copy protected discs??

.... - Bettercables supply up to 31m (101').

Yes, I've seen long digital cables, too, and thought them to be an answer to my concerns. However, I have seen threads (both here on avs and elsewhere) with people having serious problems (data loss) with long cables.
In other words, if I go for this device, it'll be via component out. I can't see 20 meter hdmi/dvi as a real option. I think I know why there are "proffessional" cables with small interfaces and optical fibers as signal carriers for long(er) distances.
However, these cables cost considerably more than the 1920, so the easiest way would be to buy a second 1920 and have a long coax cable (for digital audio out) back to the receiver ;)

I've found that the best cable I have tried for long runs is antenna cable. It's cheap and has a nice HF impedance. I use it for composite, and it gives me a picture quality with no shadow (ghost) images, whereas a commercial S-video cable gave the worst image I've seen on my setup!

I have had my 1920 for a couple of weeks and seem to be having more of a problem with the 1920's bug than others have previously described here. I have read here that the 1920 will not turn on if turned off using the remote's off button while the player is in resume mode. This is the case with my player(when using HDMI, which I am using.) My problem is that the player will also not turn on if I try to use the power ON button on the remote. It seems that if you shut the player down in resume mode (I do this always using the power button on the player), you can't use the power on button on the remote, or then it will not turn on at all with out taking out the power plug and plugging it back in. Should I be hitting stop twice before shutting down or pause? If I do this will I be able to Use the power on button on the remote?

Looked at the owners manual, and it says it only plays DVD-R, -RW......is this the case? I need something that plays DVD+R, +RW.

Looked at the owners manual, and it says it only plays DVD-R, -RW......is this the case? I need something that plays DVD+R, +RW.


Mine plays DVD+R just fine, I haven't tried +RW though.


Edit: I have tested the player with the following media:

Memorex DVD+R 4X

Fujifilm DVD+R 8X

Verbatim DVD+R 16X

No problems at all.

I really want to use HDMI rather than an analogue signal, but 8m is the shortest I can go.

Should the 1920 in theory be able to power an HDMI signal over 8M (27') cable - Bettercables supply up to 31m (101').

I've got a 15m Profigold cable running between my 1920 and Z3. The signal is picked up fine, but there seems to be a fair amount of noise on the picture, and I get the occasional white fleck showing up here and there. This varies quite a bit from DVD to DVD however, and so i'm not sure if it's because of the quality of the DVD's, or because of the cable. I've ordered a 10m cable to see if this helps improve things.

I don't want to take this thread off course, but in brief the longer you go with your HDMI cable the better quality it will need to be. There is no specific standard for HDMI (DVI is 7.5m) , but generally it is thought that anything over 5m could potentially cause problems. Bettercables are very thick, which is supposed to provide less resistance per meter and therefore allow you to use a longer length - but then the profigold cables are also very thick and I have still noticed a problem (although i'm not sure of the cause at this point).

Different DVD players will also be capable of generating more voltage than others, so what works for one persons kit will not work with the 1920.

Anyway, back on track, you 'should' be fine with a 10m cable, as long as you get something decent. That's 1/3 shorter than mine, and mine works with relatively few issues, and I hope these will clear with the 10m cable. I am going for a cable with EMI resistance this time (blocks of ferrite at each end to remove noise).

If this doesn't work, then a failsafe method is to just use a repeater. It's a small box that bridges 2 HDMI cables, and boosts the signal to allow overall lengths of around 40m. There's a link below that explains it further:

http://ultimateavmag.com/accessories/605ultra/

I don't think you can get them in the UK yet, but there's probably companies that will ship them to you, and there's another manufacturer called genfen or something that make one too.

My suggestion would be to try a good quality 10m cable, and if this doesn't work buy a repeater and another 1m cable of any quality and use that. That's what i'm going to do.

Cheers

For those of you wanting to see what's inside the player, what chips they used, here is a link to a site with very good pictures:

http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200509/denon-1920/index.htm

Here is one of them showing the video processor board with the Faroudja chip and new(?) Panasonic MPEG decoder:

http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200509/denon-1920/DSCF0466.jpg

I hope all the links work. If the moderators feel I'm posting something I shouldn't, please feel free to edit.

Is anyone using a Denon AVR-3805 remote to control their 1920? What code did you use? I've tried all the Denon remote codes in the AVR-3805 manual but I can't get the remote to work with the 1920.

Thanks!!

Have to bump...anyone found a code that makes the 3805 remote work with their 1920?

Thanks!

Am i right, that in CD-AUDIO Mode it is NOT possible to show the Playtime of th full CD in Display ?
Only numbers of Tracks ?
I dont use a TV to hear CD, and its NOT possible to show in DISPLAY any other Times than time of the aktiv Title ?
What about remaining Time of CD / Title ???

Is this thing available code-free?

Does this unit pass BTB/pluge?

Yes.

I have had my 1920 for a couple of weeks and seem to be having more of a problem with the 1920's bug than others have previously described here. I have read here that the 1920 will not turn on if turned off using the remote's off button while the player is in resume mode. This is the case with my player(when using HDMI, which I am using.) My problem is that the player will also not turn on if I try to use the power ON button on the remote. It seems that if you shut the player down in resume mode (I do this always using the power button on the player), you can't use the power on button on the remote, or then it will not turn on at all with out taking out the power plug and plugging it back in. Should I be hitting stop twice before shutting down or pause? If I do this will I be able to Use the power on button on the remote?

I've been having additional problems lately where the unit just refuses to turn on. Like before, I have to unplug it to kill the power and then it will turn on. But, I haven't been using the remote to turn it off, so this is odd.

Plus, the macroblocking is bad enough on my PJ I think I may have to get rid of it. It's too bad...

That's too bad Johnnyzero. I like the player enought to keep it despite the problems, I just want to know if there is something that causes the unit to not turn on even when turned off manually. Should I always hit the stop button twice to make sure the unit is not in resume mode?

Hello.. I recently purchased a Denon 1920 and Denon 4806 from Crutchfield. Last night, I purchased a Gershwin Hybrid Super Audio CD (from Mobile Fedlity Sound Lab). When I try to play this disc in the 1920, it detects that it's a normal CD and only plays the normal 2-channel CD audio. I can't find any way to make the 1920 interpret the SACD layer of the disc -- it seems as far as the 1920 is concerned, it is merely a regular CD. (The SACD portion of the disc is advertised as having multi-channel DSD audio. The 1920 shows a "CD" icon on the display instead of "SACD".)

I have been able to play other SACD's in the 1920 (such as a Sony Sampler SACD), although they may have been SACD-only, i.e. unable to play on a normal CD player.

Would this be a problem with the disc I bought? With the 1920? Or is there some option I'm missing to make the 1920 interpret it as a SACD? I bought the disc from Borders. I wonder if it's possible to return it since it's failing to play as a SACD? It was expensive -- $30 -- and I don't really feel happy buying a $30 disc that only plays as a normal CD.

Any tips would be appreciated. I'm fairly new at SACD and DVD-Audio and I'm not sure if there's things I need to watch out for.

Thanks!

- Scott

Scott,
Have you gone into the Denon 1920 Menu?
How are you connected to the 4806?
6 CH Analog or HDMI or Fiber Optic or Digital Coaxial which ones?

hey Scott

i'll echo AdilM's questions regarding set-up. if i were you i'd make sure you have the analog 5.1 inputs connected & activated in both the player and receiver menus. you can use the SACD Setup button on the 1920's remote for direct access. its possible the player is set on CD AREA which would explain why it's reading the disc as a CD. also if you haven't noticed the front panel display will read SACD with an M underneath when paying a multi-ch SACD.
hope you correct the problem soon. i only have 2 SACD's so far-MADMAN ACROSS THE WATER & (WHAT'S THE STORY) MORNING GLORY? and they play flawlessly.
BTW what selection of SACD/DVD-A does Borders have? how about Barnes & Noble? the availabilty of these formats is getting tight up here. oh and good luck!!!


jim

This is a very ignorant question on my part but is macroblocking visible on a crt rear projection?

not an ignorant question at all blazen. i would say yes it is indeed possible BUT-
MB seems to be an odd artifact since some displays are said to be more prone to display it than others. format doesn't seem to matter, its been reported on CRT, DLP, LCD et. al. to add to the mix certain players seem more likely to display it than others and certain DVDs with problematic transfer quality exhibit to more or less a degree. i can say that so far the 1920 has not shown any MB ON MY DISPLAY(Toshiba 50HX81-component input). i've viewed select chs. from Superbit DVD's plus some known reference quality discs(Star Wars II, The Return of the King EE). also watched The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy from beginning to end on the 1920 and my Panny RP82-no significant difference in PQ.

jim

Hi AdilM and Jim -- thanks for the reply.

I have the 1920 connected to the 4806 through 6 channel analog cables (which I understand are necessary for any SACD content, since Sony won't allow SACD to go through digital outputs), as well as HDMI and coax. (DVD's go through HDMI; SACD through the 6 RCA cables, normal CD through coax, I think.) When I've played other (non-hybrid) SACD's they go through the 6 cables OK and I receive the 5.1 channels on the 4806. (I believe I had to change the settings on the 4806 to look for the signal on the 5.1 analog input, but everything seems to be working as far as the 4806 is concerned.)

I've explored all of the 1920 menus I can find, and I think the settings are reasonable and what they should be. Again, other SACD's are playing fine; this is the first one I've had trouble with but it may well be the first hybrid CD/SACD I've tried -- I believe the other two or three SACD's I have are pure SACD and incompatible with normal CD players.

When I hit the SACD Setup button on the 1920 remote, it gives the little crossed-out icon on the screen that's shown when a button option isn't available. (I vaguely remember using the SACD Setup button with other, working SACD's before to tell the 1920 to output the multichannel sound through the 5.1 interconnect cables.) It seems that the 1920 just has no idea that the disc is an SACD and not a normal CD, so it's disabling any options that would normally be available if it thought an SACD was inserted. It only ever displays "CD" on the LED panel. With my other SACD's it displays SACD as soon as the disc is inserted.

The selection of SACD/DVD-A at Borders was fair -- maybe a total of 100-120 titles available in a few different genres. This was at a small-to-medium sized Borders in the Annapolis Mall in Maryland. I haven't checked out the selection at other Borders stores yet, or at Barnes and Noble. Has anyone checked out Amazon's selection? (I also had to ask a Borders employee where to find the section; it was easy to miss and not labeled very well.) I found that it was a little difficult to tell from the SACD labeling whether the disc was multichannel audio or just enhanced stereo -- it seems like different labels have slightly different ways of indicating the disc type, and in some cases it was very hard to find. If I don't figure out the problem with this disc, I'm going to be very hesitant to buy hybrid CD/SACD's again. I bought a DVD-Audio at the same time and it's playing flawlessly in the 1920.

Thanks,

- Scott

Scott,
I have not been in the 1920 menu, but I would 1st try turning the HDMI audio out option off if there is one.
Are you positive the DVDA was running through the 6 ch output and not one of the others?
Normally one would have to select 6 CH on the Receiver as well.
If you can prove that DVDA is working through 6 CH, then SACD should as well.
You could do this by disconnecting everything, but the 6 ch of your DVD player.

Also, sometimes the menus have submenus that only open when changing items (stupid design "Panasonic, Pioneer, Denon etc.")

Maybe the 6 CH is connected into the Pre-Outs of the Denon?

I am not insulting your intelligence just trying to throw out a bunch of different scenarios.


Best,
Adil

I've been watching xXx and finding Nemo so far, and I haven't noticed any MB at all. I'm using the DVI input. Any recommodation of DVDs to watch to see it? Alien?

Gil69,

I have found that MB is worst while watching TV shows on DVD (24, 6 Feet Under)

Also "Ladder 49" was pretty bad when they were in the smoky building near the beginning of the movie (see my earlier post about this)

Skin seems to do it pretty bad (look at Jack's face on 24), or anything with varying colors (like wood grain doors).

--tb

That's too bad Johnnyzero. I like the player enought to keep it despite the problems, I just want to know if there is something that causes the unit to not turn on even when turned off manually. Should I always hit the stop button twice to make sure the unit is not in resume mode?

abarry126,

I still haven't been able to find an exact cause of the power off/on issue, but it seems to only happen for me when I use the power button on the player itself. When it does lock up, it doesn't seem to matter whether I used resume or not (or whether I paused or stopped the DVD). Anyways, I try to only power off/on the unit using the remote, and it doesn't happen as often. Again, I'm stumped so far as to what exactly causes it, and my results seem to be the opposite of everyone else's. I mainly have the problem when I use the power button on the front of the unit.

Post your results if you do figure something out.

Has anyone heard from Denon on this issue? I know there were several emails sent.

--tb

hi scott

sorry to hear no luck with the player so far. i'll try later today on my 1920-i'm at a loss as to what the problem could be. my Elton John SACD is a hybrid and multi-ch plays fine.
thanx for your reply re: availability. Amazon does seem to have a fair selection & some SACD titles are on sale-i ordered Roxy Music's "Avalon" & Derek & the Dominos "Layla" yesterday-"Avalon" is backordered on other on-line sites. might try the Manhattan Borders tomorrow.

jim

abarry126,

I still haven't been able to find an exact cause of the power off/on issue, but it seems to only happen for me when I use the power button on the player itself. When it does lock up, it doesn't seem to matter whether I used resume or not (or whether I paused or stopped the DVD). Anyways, I try to only power off/on the unit using the remote, and it doesn't happen as often. Again, I'm stumped so far as to what exactly causes it, and my results seem to be the opposite of everyone else's. I mainly have the problem when I use the power button on the front of the unit.

Post your results if you do figure something out.

Has anyone heard from Denon on this issue? I know there were several emails sent.

--tb

Just so you know - I had found the remote issue early on, but now I'm having power problems with the front power button on the player as well. I can't seem to find any rhyme or reason to it either :(

Just so you know - I had found the remote issue early on, but now I'm having power problems with the front power button on the player as well. I can't seem to find any rhyme or reason to it either :(

Sorry to hear that the 1920 power problem seems to be mutating on your unit, jonnyozero3. I had a feeling when I experienced the problem initially on my player, that Denon had rushed the product to market. It was only one of a handful of reasons why I returned mine to Crutchfield. But, I believe for me it was the right decision.

Just so you know - I had found the remote issue early on, but now I'm having power problems with the front power button on the player as well. I can't seem to find any rhyme or reason to it either :(
jonny - I don't know if you've seen the thread specifically regarding the power issues on the 1920.

I made a post in there detailing the results of sometinkering that I did which seem to have fixed the problem for me (so far at least, not yet sure if it's permanent)

If you haven't seen it it might be worth a read and giving it a try. Can't make things any worse! ;)

Sorry to hear that the 1920 power problem seems to be mutating on your unit, jonnyozero3. I had a feeling when I experienced the problem initially on my player, that Denon had rushed the product to market. It was only one of a handful of reasons why I returned mine to Crutchfield. But, I believe for me it was the right decision.

Thanks. Overall, I like the player. It has decent PQ (definately not talking about the MB), good to great features for the price (universal audio!), and pretty good audio qualities as far as I could tell. That said, the MB has become too much for me, and the power issue is just kind of a seconday...DAMNIT...type feeling.

But, since I am now eyeing the Pioneer 79avi....maybe I should thank the Denon? Hahaha.

jonny - I don't know if you've seen the thread specifically regarding the power issues on the 1920.

I made a post in there detailing the results of sometinkering that I did which seem to have fixed the problem for me (so far at least, not yet sure if it's permanent)

If you haven't seen it it might be worth a read and giving it a try. Can't make things any worse! ;)

Haha, good point. I'll go check it out.

Hi there. I recently bought a Denon 1920 and so far very impressed!!

I'd like to hear opinions about the type of audio connections you guys are using. Can any of you compare the audio quality via the analog outs vs. digital coax? I have a Cambridge Audio 540R receiver and I honestly cannot find ANY difference between the sound produce by the 1920 through the analog outs and through the digital coax to the amp.

Also, can anyone explain me from which analog connections can I take advantage of the "pure direct mode" ?? Must I use the 5.1 analog outs or does it work also with the 2ch analog outs?? BTW, is there any difference between using the 2ch analog outs and the left&right ch of the 5.1 analog outs when listening to common music CDs? What's the point of selecting "2channel" in the "analog out" option in the player's setup (i.e. what's the point of setting "2channel" in the menu for the 5.1 analog outs? wouldn't it be the same as using the 2ch analog outs?)?

I'm SO confused :confused:

Hi there. I recently bought a Denon 1920 and so far very impressed!!

I'd like to hear opinions about the type of audio connections you guys are using. Can any of you compare the audio quality via the analog outs vs. digital coax? I have a Cambridge Audio 540R receiver and I honestly cannot find ANY difference between the sound produce by the 1920 through the analog outs and through the digital coax to the amp.
Neither could I, frankly.

Speaking of which, inquiring minds want to know. Why is it that the audio output selections in the setup menu are limited to HDMI and Analog? Why not Digital/Coax and Digital/Optical as options? Is it because the last two are on all the time, and the output is switchable between the HDMI and the 5.1 analog out?

I'd like to hear opinions about the type of audio connections you guys are using. Can any of you compare the audio quality via the analog outs vs. digital coax? I have a Cambridge Audio 540R receiver and I honestly cannot find ANY difference between the sound produce by the 1920 through the analog outs and through the digital coax to the amp.
BTW, is there any difference between using the 2ch analog outs and the left&right ch of the 5.1 analog outs when listening to common music CDs?
If analog and digital sound the same, that just means the DACs in the player and the DACs in the receiver are of the same quality. For watching movies or for regular CDs, it really doesn't matter so much whether you use digital or analog, or for regular CDs, whether you use 2ch analog or analog L/R front. For high res audio (SACD or DVD-A), however, you need to use the analog outs, either 5.1 analogs if you have a surround sound setup, or 2ch analog if you only have a stereo system.

But why do you have the option of setting the 5.1 analogs to "2channel" in the setup menu if the player already has a 2channel analog out??

Moreover, if the source playing is a 2channel source, wouldn't it already only play sound through the front left/right channels of the 5.1 analog outputs?? Why do you need the "2channel" option in the menu for the 5.1 analog outs?? :confused: :confused:

Is there a region free firmware yet? or divx upgrade?

Yes region free is possible: look for the thread "Denon DVD 1920 Multiregion Firmware" at avforum (I cannot post lnks, no 5 post yet :confused: )

I believe it is not for the US model.

My model nr is E61E2ED version 1.17 PAL region 2

Just flashed the firmware with succes so it is region free now :cool:

It appears like I'm having an audio sync issue from the 1920 to my Mits 62828 (1080p DLP) TV. It looks like the voices are slightly off, although I'm having a hard time to figure out if its lagging or slightly ahead - Ive tried several DVD and some seem to be more obvious than others (at least in spots). I have optical audio out to a Pioneer 5.1 reciever (5 years old so no audio sync settings) and HDMI output set to 1080i.

Any ideas on how to correct this without buying a new receiver? I can still return the 1920 in case there is another viable HDMI DVD player option.

Thanks.
-Gary

Alright I have 2 quick questions:

Does the HDMI port pass DD/DTS multichannel when connected to a receiver?

If I use said HDMI connection and a 6 channel analog for SACD, do I have to disable the HDMI port to listen to SACD's every time?

It appears like I'm having an audio sync issue from the 1920 to my Mits 62828 (1080p DLP) TV. It looks like the voices are slightly off, although I'm having a hard time to figure out if its lagging or slightly ahead - Ive tried several DVD and some seem to be more obvious than others (at least in spots). I have optical audio out to a Pioneer 5.1 reciever (5 years old so no audio sync settings) and HDMI output set to 1080i.

Any ideas on how to correct this without buying a new receiver? I can still return the 1920 in case there is another viable HDMI DVD player option.

Thanks.
-Gary

Hi Gary,

This is a really common problem these days. A combination of factors contribute toward audio/video sync issues. In almost all cases, unless you have already added an audio delay to the signal, the video is lagging the audio. The audio gets ahead because it is quicker to process and often takes a shorter path through the AV system.

I've noticed a variation between DVD players. Some are worse than others. None can completely solve this problem - probably just not exacerbate it is all one can hope for.

There is a huge variation based on the display and its mode (input type, scaling/deinterlacing/noise reduction, etc). This makes sense because most of the delay is introduced in the display due to its high levels of video processing. If the sound is routed directly to the AV receiver, then there is no way for the display and receiver to remain synchronized.

And finally, most importantly, the source material. Sometimes the source material already has inherent errors in the audio/video sync. This is actually the worst problem because if its variable from scene to scene, like it tends to be in DVDs since they master each scene separately, then there is pretty much nothing you can do it fit it. If you perfectly tune a manually introduced audio delay based on one scene, the next scene will be different and it will once again be off.

Suggestions:
- eliminate DVD players that introduce really big and especially variable audio/video skew.
- buy a receiver with easily adjusted, individually controllable per input, audio delay (I know, this option sucks, I just did it myself)
- buy a Felston box and program the delay control buttons into your remote so you can easily tweak it up and down.

This is an industry wide problem in AV right now that has no solution in sight. Somehow we need a standardized technology for maintaining sync across multiple devices but it just doesn't exist yet.

-Dan

Alright I have 2 quick questions:

Does the HDMI port pass DD/DTS multichannel when connected to a receiver?

If I use said HDMI connection and a 6 channel analog for SACD, do I have to disable the HDMI port to listen to SACD's every time?
Yes on DD/DTS multichannel. No on the second question. You can set the HDMI inputs to fall back to External analog 5.1 input if there is no signal on HDMI (as would be the case for SACD).

I just brought home a 1920 this afternoon. I got it to do A-DVD/SACD at a (relatively) low price. I've got a lot of thread reading to do, as well as sorting out the manual. Maybe you wouldn't mind answering a couple of questions to save me some time getting started.

Receiver is HK-635 (no HDMI). What I'd like to do is have the 1920 play music (DVD audio and SACD) via analog, but movie DVD's via optical (so I can use the receivers' excellent equalization). I think I can do this just by selecting the proper input on the receiver now that I think about it - stupid question...

I'll play with it tommorow and post 'real' questions then... Thanks,

John F

Hi I have just bought the 1920 and am still putting it through its paces. I am well impressed by its picture quality. There are some issues which I would love to get sorted though - so that this player can be described as brilliant for the money.

When in HDMI connection mode to my Toshiba 32wl56, 2.35:1 aspect ratio dvd's only take up about a third of the screen. My TV controls (cinema,wide etc) cannot be altered when in HDMI mose so I can't get the image any bigger. The Denon is in 16:9 ratio setting and changing any of the 3 HDMI resolutions on the Denon dosen't make much difference to the size. ( A bit bigger image for the lowest resolution.)

The other issues are layer change - large pause in play

Lip sync - some DVD's are terrible others are perfect. Having read the posts on this thread about this issue I can only add that some DVD's are perfect others are awful, I have tried changing video settings etc -all to no avail - any suggestions here would be gratefully received as I think this is a great player and has the potential to be brilliant.

Maybe a new Firmware would make things even better?

Cheers
:)

Quick question - Do the sound settings in the 1920 affect digital optical output if set to bitstream or PCM? I want sound settings to be in effect for 6 ch. analog for SACD or A-DVD playback, but not for optical. I want processing to take place in the receiver for that (DVD's and regular CD's). Thanks,

John F

Should I buy it? I want to connect the Denon 1920 to my new panasonic ae900 projector.
Through a yamaha rx-v2600 receiver. In Germany, this dvd player has got many good reviews. Is it the best in its price range?. In 720p resolution, is there any macroblocking through HDMI? In Europe I'll be able to play divx...
Is there any firmware update?
Does it come with a hdmi cable? is it good or shall I buy a better one?

Thanks from Spain!

Just as an FYI, the 1920 (and its silver counterpart the DVD-756S) both pass HDCD over digital connection. It doesn't mention this anywhere in the specs. If you have an HDCD decoder equipped receiver, this player can get the signal to it. I wish I had known this before spending money on a 20 foot digital coax cable to get HDCD from my Rotel RCD-1072.

Just as an FYI, the 1920 (and its silver counterpart the DVD-756S) both pass HDCD over digital connection. It doesn't mention this anywhere in the specs. If you have an HDCD decoder equipped receiver, this player can get the signal to it. I wish I had known this before spending money on a 20 foot digital coax cable to get HDCD from my Rotel RCD-1072.

As far as i know EVERY CD-Player passes HDCD over DIGITAL connection, because its raw data transport.....

As far as i know EVERY CD-Player passes HDCD over DIGITAL connection, because its raw data transport.....


Yes, I discovered this after I posted last night! Even my old Sony does it, oh well.

I am a bit confused about the 1920. It says it is a DVD-A SACD player and has a DTS sticker on the front. The Crutchfield site says that it does DTS over the analog chanel outs. But on the Denon home page with the specs it has Built-In Dolby Digital, dts, DVD-Audio, SACD* Decoders with 5.1 outputs listed with a line next to it, not their funky x picture. So my question is, if I buy this player and hook it up over the 5.1 analog outs, will I get DD, DTS, DVD-A and SACD?

Help!

I don't quite have an answer to your question (I have no idea even if DD and DTS can be passed via 6ch analogue), but I'm curious why you want to run DTS/DD over the 6ch analogue (5.1) connection? Why not run DTS/DD via digital connection (coax or optical pick your flavor) and use the 6ch outs for DVD-A and SACD? That's the normal way to do it afaik.

I have a 1920 feeding an HK 635, I have both the analog 5.1 and optical digial hooked up I just tried playing a DTS disc (steely dan, Gaucho). When optical is selected on the receiver, it detects that the bitstream is DTS, and it plays perfectly. When I select the 6 ch. analogs, it still plays fine through all 6 ch.

So, although it seems to work both ways, I don't know how or why. I appreciate the opportunity to confuse your question further.

John F

but I'm curious why you want to run DTS/DD over the 6ch analogue (5.1) connection? Why not run DTS/DD via digital connection (coax or optical pick your flavor) and use the 6ch outs for DVD-A and SACD? That's the normal way to do it afaik.

Well, I guess I would like the simplicity of having just one connection, and I was thinking that the DVD player would be doing the DTS/DD decoding and then passing the decoded audio to the 5.1 channels. That was my understanding of how it worked. But if I am wrong please correct me.

I took a look at the 1920's manual online, and it appears there's no +10 dB subwoofer boost (as there is, for example, in the 2910). Can anyone confirm proper sub output for DVD-A and SACD?

I've owned hi-rez audio players from 3 or 4 different manufacturers now, and everyone of them had a 10-15 dB deficit in sub output for hi-rez audio sources. I figured it was just a universal shortcoming, and I was happy to see the 2910 overcome it by offering this sub boost. Why would they drop such a widely needed function on a new player?!

I have a 1920 feeding an HK 635, I have both the analog 5.1 and optical digial hooked up I just tried playing a DTS disc (steely dan, Gaucho). When optical is selected on the receiver, it detects that the bitstream is DTS, and it plays perfectly. When I select the 6 ch. analogs, it still plays fine through all 6 ch.

So, although it seems to work both ways, I don't know how or why. I appreciate the opportunity to confuse your question further.

John F
With the digital connection (coax/optical) the receiver is doing the decoding and processing via its DACs
With the 5.1 analog connections the player is doing the decoding and processing via its DACs
The final output sound to your ear may or may not vary depending on whether the players or receivers DAC's are better.

With the digital connection (coax/optical) the receiver is doing the decoding and processing via its DACs
With the 5.1 analog connections the player is doing the decoding and processing via its DACs
The final output sound to your ear may or may not vary depending on whether the players or receivers DAC's are better.

this may be a dumb question but if the connection is digital, what's the point of a DAC? doesn't the signal remain digital the entire way and so no conversion is needed?

this may be a dumb question but if the connection is digital, what's the point of a DAC? doesn't the signal remain digital the entire way and so no conversion is needed?
No, the signal still has to be converted to analog to drive the speakers. So you either process & convert to analog in the player then send it through or send it through as digital then process & convert to analog in the receiver.

<<I took a look at the 1920's manual online, and it appears there's no +10 dB subwoofer boost (as there is, for example, in the 2910). Can anyone confirm proper sub output for DVD-A and SACD? >>

Funny you should mention this. Until yesterday, I was unaware of this known bass deficit. I do use a Velodyne sub, and when I first started playing with A-DVD and SACD using the 6 ch. analogs last week on the new 1920, I noticed the sub was very shy compared to playing, for example, the same A-DVD's using DD via digital connection, and letting the receiver do the processing, bass management, and EQ.

So, I started playing with the speaker level adjustments in the 1920. I wound up with the following adjustments by trial and error.
Fronts: -8 db
Center: -9 db
Surrounds: -10 db
Sub: 0 db

My goal was to have the sound characterics as close as possible between the DD optical connection and the 6 ch. analogs, so there would be little difference and no tweaking to be done for HT and music. I use the Harmony activity based remote, set up to select Optical 1 and Video 1 for playing DVD's and A-DVD's via DD, same for playing regular CD's, but without turning on the DLP projector, and selecting 6 ch. analogs and video 1 for the SACD / A-DVD activity.

Funny how, by trial and error, the numbers came close to the 10 db boost you say is common for playing A-DVD / SACD. I was able to accomplish the same thing, but by attenuating all channels except the sub.

It works beautifully now, and I'm able to do direct A-B comparisons between the sound of A-DVD's using the 1920's DAC's with no receiver processing; and the HK-635 receiver DAC's, bm, and EQ using DD or Logic 7 via optical by just selecting the appropriate activity.

All is good. The sound is fantastic, with no change in overall bass output regardless of input selection.

John F
Harbeth C7's fronts and center
Axiom QS-8's surrounds
Velodyne F1200 sub
HK AVR-635 receiver
LG-3510A now relegated to OTA HD tuner only
Denon 1920 universal player
Optoma H30 projector
DaLite pull-down 96" screen
Harmony 676 remote

Hi there, after spending the last couple of hours reading (most of!) this thread I made up my mind about two things: Buy the 1920 and join the forum - great work guys! :) :) :)

I'll go buy a 1920 on Saturday but two questions still bother me:

Considering my amp is Denon's low end 1705, would it be better to pass sound from the DVD (DVD-A & CD) via digital and use the amp's DAC or decode using 1920's DAC (& DTS decoder) and pass it to the amp via its analog 5.1 ch audio out? As far as SACD is concerned, I have concluded that I can only use the analog 5.1 out, not the digital right?

Regarding video, my CRT inputs S-video via SCART, S-Video via the norm 5-pin S-Video, and also RGB via SCART. I guess my best option is DVD RGB SCART out to TV RGB SCART in, right? I'm asking because RGB is obviously better than S-Video but I've read that SCART is a horrible connector...?

<<Considering my amp is Denon's low end 1705, would it be better to pass sound from the DVD (DVD-A & CD) via digital and use the amp's DAC or decode using 1920's DAC (& DTS decoder) and pass it to the amp via its analog 5.1 ch audio out? As far as SACD is concerned, I have concluded that I can only use the analog 5.1 out, not the digital right?>>

SACD via 6 ch. analog only. A-DVD low-rez through digital (either optical or coax), A-DVD hi-rez via 6 ch. analogs. Easy enough to use both connections and switch receiver inputs to determine which one you prefer. Nearly all my A-DVD's sound better via 6 ch, but a few with, uh, questionable mixes sound better using the receivers EQ and bass management.

Video: Your display doesn't have 'component' inputs? I pretty sure that any form of RGB will look better than S-Vid.

John F

Well, since I'll buy anyway cables for SACD 5.1 analog output and I already have a digital coax cable, I'll be able to verify this. It seems that the deciding factor may be the bass (& other sound parameters) management on the amp & player...

My display has not any kind of RCA inputs at the back, so I'll have to use scart no matter what the signal... Anyway, RGB should be fine, thanx for the help!

Alkis

Can anyone help a new 1920 owner, connected via s-video and hdmi cable/DVI-D converter to Fujitsu P42HHA10E. Picture with s-video fine, but when switched to DVI-D the picture is mainly green and only holds the picture for 30 seconds before going blank. Fujitsu tell me that the plasma is HD with component/DVI-D, but i'm not so sure.

Bad cable?

Thank you, faulty DVI-D converter. I can confirm for any Fuji owners P42HHA10ES works well with the 1920. Still playing but looks good so far.

Hi to all,

I got my 1920 three days ago, here are my first impressions, notice it is the European version, firmware is 1.17:

- No macroblocking on my CRT 32' panny so far
- It plays all Divx files I have tried so far from DVDs, but I'm having a problem displaying subtitles. I burt on a dvd a movie and 3 subtitles files; the name being the movie's name and used three different extensions, txt, srt & sub. None worked! :mad:
- Zoom is very handy for divx, with the proper combination of the player's and tv's zoom I can fill almost all the screen no matter what the movie's resolution.
- The 1920's S-video PQ is better than my HTPC's ATI Radeon 9800 Pro. I'm waiting for an IXOS SCART-SCART RGB cable for an even better picture
- I haven't experienced any power on-off problem no matter how I stopped the movie and turned off the player. This probably verifies that HDMI causes the problem.
- I do not own an SACDs yet, so I'll have to check on this later...

Hope these help, I'd appreciate some on the divx subtitles issue.

Just for the record, I use my player with HDMI only and have not experienced any power related issues.

If you check the thread specifically about the power issue on the 1920 you'll see that it's not simply related to connecting using hdmi.

The problem arises if you connect with hdmi AND have the Video Mode option set to component progressive (or on a non european player you have the Progressive option set to on).

If you you leave these options set to scart (for the euro model) or off (for the US model) then everything is fine.

Update on Power Issue:

I have used only the remote control to power on/off the player, and have had no problems in the last few weeks with the power issues. I use HDMI, and have changed no settings since I last experienced a problem.

--tb

Trust me - make sure the setting for progressive scan is disabled (either by setting video mode to scart on a euro player or setting progressive to off on a US player) and you won't need to worry about only turning on and off with the remote.

Those options don't need to be enabled to get a progressive scan picture over HDMI - using HDMI is always progressive scan on the 1920

<<Trust me - make sure the setting for progressive scan is disabled (either by setting video mode to scart on a euro player or setting progressive to off on a US player) and you won't need to worry about only turning on and off with the remote.

Those options don't need to be enabled to get a progressive scan picture over HDMI - using HDMI is always progressive scan on the 1920 >>

If anyone has a friend working for Denon tech support, please email this with instructions to print many copies and hang them up in each cubicle.

This whole powerdown issue is really, well, a non-issue (now). Oh, wait, maybe someone might want to watch 2 tv's at the same time - one with HDMI, another with component and HAS to have progressive enabled for it. Not too likely though.

John F

The problem arises if you connect with hdmi AND have the Video Mode option set to component progressive (or on a non european player you have the Progressive option set to on).




and why would you do that?

<<and why would you do that? >>

I'm glad you edited your post - I'm often guilty of not reading manuals as well as I should, especially when they are as poorly written as the 1920 manual is. To be fair to Denon, though, the manual that came with my HK AVR-635 receiver is much worse.

Anyone seen any reviews yet on the 1920? What is the general opinion of the component out video quality compared to other players in this category? My Optoma projector has no HDMI or DVI, so I'm stuck with component for now. I do know that the picture is better using the 1920's scaler than the one in the Optoma, especially where motion is involved.

John F

Has anyone tried this region free firmware? I'm looking to get PAL out of the 1920...looks like the 1920 overseas does it, so I'm hoping it's just a firmware upgrade

http://home.wanadoo.nl/waldini/Denon%20DVD%201920%20MR%20Firmware.zip
woops, forgot the link :)

Sorry for the noob question...but will I get a clearer/sharper picture (dvd movies) with the 2900 with component cables or with the 1920 with HDMI connection? I can get a used 2900 for about the same price as a new 1920. Please advise. Thank you.

<<Trust me - make sure the setting for progressive scan is disabled (either by setting video mode to scart on a euro player or setting progressive to off on a US player) and you won't need to worry about only turning on and off with the remote.

Those options don't need to be enabled to get a progressive scan picture over HDMI - using HDMI is always progressive scan on the 1920 >>

If anyone has a friend working for Denon tech support, please email this with instructions to print many copies and hang them up in each cubicle.

This whole powerdown issue is really, well, a non-issue (now). Oh, wait, maybe someone might want to watch 2 tv's at the same time - one with HDMI, another with component and HAS to have progressive enabled for it. Not too likely though.

John F
After I discovered the fix, and it was confirmed by a few people, I did actually phone Denon tech support in the UK to tell them about the fix (workaround is probably a better phrase I guess), so they should know and I'd hope it would get cascaded out across the whole of Denon from there.

Hi

I'm new to these forums. I'm planning to purchase a Denon DVD-1920 player to go with my ProjectionDesign Action! Model One MKII projector. The pj has a DVI(HDCP) input. I'm considering using a RealCable 5m HDMI-DVI cable to connect the Denon with the pj.

Would this pose any problems with regards to using hdmi-dvi cable? Would there be any chance of this distorting the overall pq?

Sorry for the noob question...but will I get a clearer/sharper picture (dvd movies) with the 2900 with component cables or with the 1920 with HDMI connection? I can get a used 2900 for about the same price as a new 1920. Please advise. Thank you.

The 2900 has a Silicon Video (SiI504) chip compared to the Faroudja (FL-2301) on the 1920 (the 2910 has the better 2310 chip). The Silicon Video chip is considered one of the best out there, so unless you want to have a HDMI connection, I'd go with the 2900. Its supposed to have better build, zero layer change and great sound to go along with that great video.

And you do know that almost ALL dvds out there are, at best, 480 lines. All a upconverter does is throw out a signal that is the best match for your HDMI input. Mostly useful for projectors. Hope this helps.

Cheers!

Edited for speeling mistakes.

Edit 2: Forgot to add the most important info about the Denon 1920. The Faroudja chip suffers from macro-blocking depending on your display. The Silicon Video chip doesn't have that issue.

Hello,

Denon 1920 seems good. Does it support multimedia DVD, i.e. MP3, JPEG, WMA saved on DVD, or it supports them only on CD?

Has anyone gotten the multiregion firmware to work on a US R1 player?


EDIT: Apparently not. From further reading, it doesn't appear possible at this point. Grrr.

And that's why I'm not getting this player. It's a shame, but Denon R1 players just don't seem very hackable.

The 1910 and now the 1920 coming into Australia have been multi-region though officially they aren’t.

The 1910 and now the 1920 coming into Australia have been multi-region though officially they aren’t.
All players sold in Oz MUST be Multi Region - it's mandated in law. So officially they are.

Anyone have a Macroblocking status report on the Denon 1920 with a Panasonic AE900U?

Sam

I tried looking for an answer but couldn't find one. Are there plans for a 5 disc changer version of the 1920?

If you check the thread specifically about the power issue on the 1920 you'll see that it's not simply related to connecting using hdmi.
Hi all,
I'm new on this great forum, but it's from a couple of years sometimes I'm surfing on it :) I'm from Italy, so please apologies for my bad english.

I'm a senior member of one famous AVS Italian forum, and yesterday we (in Italy) think we have finally get sorted out the "power issue" of the Denon 1920. One forum member was working with one Denon official repair center, and they finally have received an official answer from the Italian denon distributor. I would be grateful if someone could please give me the link to the right thread on this forum (not sure if this is the right one), so I'll write on there what I actually know... just in case it was not previously posted.

Best regards, and congrats for this forum :)
Mauri

I will make the customary excuses for my lack of knowledge which I think you guys loath.....

I am a newbie, and I am trying to understand all the iIntricacies of my new system, which I bought on review recomendations. FYI, I have the following setup:

Denon 3805 A/V
Denon 1920 DVD player
Philips 32" LCD TV- DVD-I input.
I use a HDMI to DVI cable.

I would really appreciate it if you could give me some input on the following questions.

1) Someone told me that Progressive scan is only available with an analogue connection, so component. And that you cannot have progressive scan with DVI ( so a digital signal), correct?

2) Just like everyone, I want to have the best output my system can provide; When I have the Denon on the 720P setting with the HDMI to DVI cable (Based on Question 1, I assume this is not Progressive, due to the non analogue connection) the screen does not use the total avalable TV space, instead it has a black border all around. If I use the 1080i setting the screen uses all the available space in 16:9 format. Is this normall that the 720p does not use the whole space that the TV provides? And I assume that that 720P for progressive is not working and that the best picture, through DVI, can be achieved with 1080i??

Many thanks in advance.
regards
Mark.. Holland.

1) Someone told me that Progressive scan is only available with an analogue connection, so component. And that you cannot have progressive scan with DVI ( so a digital signal), correct?

2) When I have the Denon on the 720P setting with the HDMI to DVI cable (Based on Question 1, I assume this is not Progressive, due to the non analogue connection) the screen does not use the total avalable TV space, instead it has a black border all around. If I use the 1080i setting the screen uses all the available space in 16:9 format. Is this normall that the 720p does not use the whole space that the TV provides?
Hello Mark,
about your two questions:

1. When you are using the HDMI digital connection of your player, you don't need to take care about "progressive scan", it works in this way: when on the player you are using a progressive video mode like 480p, 576p, or 720p (the "p" character means "progressive"), the player will do the deinterlacing operation, and it will send a progressive signal to your TV. Instead, if you will use an interlaced video mode, like 480i, 576i or 1080i (the "i" character means "interlaced"), the player will not do any operation, and it will send the original interlaced signal to your TV. At that point, your TV will do the deinterlacing and scaling operation to the native resolution of your display, and you will see the images in progressive mode in any case, because all the digital displays (LCD-Plasma) are working in progressive mode only, while (for example) most of our European CRT TVs are able to accept interlaced signals only.

To get the best video quality from your setup, you should always made an initial check with the 576i/p, 720p and 1080i video modes on your DVD player. If the DVD player is able to do a better deinterlacing/upscaling work than the TV, you will get the best performances by using the 720p or 1080i modes, otherwise the best setting could be 576i/p (PAL mode for europe).

2. I don't own a 1920 at the moment, so I can't explain you in detail, but if the video settings are the right ones on both your DVD player and the TV, you should always see full screen images on your display, nevermind what video mode you are using on the DVD player. Have a look at the manual of your TV at first, I think there should be a setting like "auto" to recognise the input video mode or the aspect ratio (or something like that). Check also the manual of the player for the same things.

Hope that help.
Best regards from Italy :)

2) Just like everyone, I want to have the best output my system can provide; When I have the Denon on the 720P setting with the HDMI to DVI cable (Based on Question 1, I assume this is not Progressive, due to the non analogue connection) the screen does not use the total avalable TV space, instead it has a black border all around. If I use the 1080i setting the screen uses all the available space in 16:9 format. Is this normall that the 720p does not use the whole space that the TV provides? And I assume that that 720P for progressive is not working and that the best picture, through DVI, can be achieved with 1080i??

Many thanks in advance.
regards
Mark.. Holland.

When are you seeing this? On the "Denon" purple loading screen or on DVDs, or on both? I don't have a problem like this on my 1920 with my MT700 pj. You may also want to post in the display forum to see if it may be the LCD TV if you don't get any good answers here.

Hi all,
I'm new on this great forum, but it's from a couple of years sometimes I'm surfing on it :) I'm from Italy, so please apologies for my bad english.

I'm a senior member of one famous AVS Italian forum, and yesterday we (in Italy) think we have finally get sorted out the "power issue" of the Denon 1920. One forum member was working with one Denon official repair center, and they finally have received an official answer from the Italian denon distributor. I would be grateful if someone could please give me the link to the right thread on this forum (not sure if this is the right one), so I'll write on there what I actually know... just in case it was not previously posted.

Best regards, and congrats for this forum :)
Mauri

Mauri,
The discussion on the power issue begins in this thread, on about page 4 and continues through out :
1920 Power Issue (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=557414&page=4&pp=30)
If you have any insight to a fix please post it in this thread. I know it can be circumvented several ways, but no Denon fix has ever been posted.
BTW welcome to the forum.

There was a little bit of talk before about using the 6 anologe outputs to listen to SACD and DVDA to take advantage of the "superior" audio DAC but according to zdnet.com you have no choice but to use the analog outputs for SACD.

From ZDNet.com
"You'll still need to connect six separate analog audio cables if you want to hear SACDs light up your home theater. Don't blame Denon: Sony, which controls the SACD format, refuses to permit digital output.(All other disc formats--including DVD-Audio--should work just fine through the digital output.)"

Is this right?

<<All other disc formats--including DVD-Audio--should work just fine through the digital output>>

Uh, sort of. A-DVD will work as Dolby Digital through digital out on the 1920, but only at 48khz according to my receiver. For full hi-rez A-DVD, you still need to use the 5.1 analogs. Correct me if I'm wrong...

John F

My receiver is HK-6335 (7.1) I there any reason why (for more 'full' sound) I couldn't use splitters (1920 analog output) for the surround output from the 1920 to hook both my side surround and rear speakers to work off the rear channel of the 5.1 outs? This, of course, would only be for SACD / A-DVD use, as I use digital for DVD movies in conjuction with Logic 7 on the receiver. Any comments? Thanks,

John F

Mauri,
The discussion on the power issue begins in this thread.. cut

If you have any insight to a fix please post it in this thread. I know it can be circumvented several ways, but no Denon fix has ever been posted.
BTW welcome to the forum.
Hi keithsimp,
thank you for your answer, here below is what we have discovered.

After having spent a lot of time on many different test, we have made a little movie to show to the Denon official repair center the issue (sometimes words are not enough). At that point, the repair center has contacted the Italian Denon official distributor, and after some days the Denon official distributor has confirmed they have received a note from Denon Japan about the power issue, and it is an hardware problem: they said a resistor with a wrong value was mounted on the players. The wrong resistor seems to have a 2200 ohm value, while the right one should be 3300 ohm - or vice versa - (we have received that info by phone from the repair center). It seem that that resistor is located on the power supply section. Two days ago we have received back the player from the repair center, and now it seems it is working fine with that fix.. actually we never had the problem again.

One forum user has received also a written answer by mail from the Italian denon distributor, where they said the problem (Italy-Europe) was actually discovered on the first 1920 production, and that now the players which are coming on the market, have the right resistor. BTW, personally I'll wait a bit more before buy one ;) .

That's all for the moment.. now you can start to investigate with Denon itself and their repair centers in U.S., and if I'll have some news, I'll let you know :)

'sorry for my poor english, and best regards.

At that point, the repair center has contacted the Italian Denon official distributor, and after some days the Denon official distributor has confirmed they have received a note from Denon Japan about the power issue, and it is an hardware problem: they said a resistor with a wrong value was mounted on the players. The wrong resistor seems to have a 2200 ohm value, while the right one should be 3300 ohm - or vice versa - (we have received that info by phone from the repair center).


Will Denon eventually provide a free of charge fix thru an authorized repair facility for this production mistake?

Anyone care to speculate?

The Denon authorized repair center here in Italy, fixed it without any cost, but we don't know what Denon is planning to do around the world. If I'll have more news I'll let you know.

Are there any 1920 owners out there who changed from the 2900 because of the HDMI output? I've decided to keep my projector for another year - it is component only. I'm considering returning the 1920 and buying a used 2900 _IF_ picture quality and audio quality will be an upgrage over the 1920.

Downsides to the 2900: No delay time adjustments for SACD - this is available for A-DVD only. It does do bass management for both formats, though. I have mostly A-DVD, but some SACD's - how much of a downside is this?

How does the PQ via component compare between the 2 models? Thanks for any comments...

John F

My dealer (Absolute Theater) is letting me borrow their demo 1920 for a few days to check it out before buying. What are some good DVD's to check out macroblocking on my Hitachi 55HDT51? What scenes should I use from those disks?

My first impressions of the 1920

I fired it up this morning (my wife said never do it late as I become error-prone) and got it dialed in.

1. The power off error was apparent when using the HDMI output (July build) and the fix was to push stop on the remote and power off on the player.

2. Are component and HDMI mutually exclusive options? I could not plug in both the HDMI cable and component video cable without problems. Specifically, with the HDMI cable from the 1920 directly into my Hitachi and the component from the 1920 to my AVR-3803, when I switched to the DVD input the receiver clicked rapidly over and over like it was going into protection. I unplugged the component cable from the 1920 and HDMI worked fine. But, I had to unplug the HDMI, unplug the 1920, plug in the component cable and then plug in the 1920 power cable to get the component output to work properly into the AVR-3803.

Or, is this a problem in that the component out from the AVR-3803 and the HDMI share input 1 on the Hitachi 55HDT51. The HDMI input is supposed to override the component and did so when I used the S-video from the DVD-1920 into the AVR-3803, which upconverted to component out to the Hitachi anyhow.

3. I preferred the black level settings to "on". Am I nuts?

4. Most disks played fine. I did have to re-load one SACD and one home-grown DVD-R to get the DVD-1920 to recognize them. Eventually, everything played and looked and sounded fine.

I'll let you know what else I uncover.

Regarding #3 - do you have Avia or DVE? That would be the way to check and see what is correct. That said, if you like how it looks, that's good enough :)

I currently have a Yamaha DVD C750 five disc player which has gotten pretty decent reviews. It has very slow reaction times, so I am thinking of picking up a Denon 1920.
Am I going to find better video quality?

Is there anyone who write a dvd9 himself and play it on the 1920 denon
yesterday i wrote the new U2 on a dvd9 and it simply won't start
it's start on every player jvc/cyberhome/nad/maranzt

but not on my player :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

What is a DVD9?

What is a DVD9?
A dual-layer DVD. Just like most of the movie DVDs you have out there. A single layer holds 4.7 GB of data while the DL will hold 8.4 GB. You do need a DL burner to take advantage of DL media. And a player that will play it.

koot I just bought a few of the DL media hoping it will play on the 1920. What did you burn on it and what did you use to burn it? Also what media are you using?

If the 1920 won't play the DL media then I'd rather not open the pack and get my money back.

I have read that quite a few of the Sony DVD players play the DL media fine.

EDIT: Someone earlier tried it and said DL played most of the time. Read it here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6028387&&#post6028387)

Anyone have a Macroblocking status report on the Denon 1920 with a Panasonic AE900U?


Bought a 1920 today. If its there, I dont see it and dont want to go looking for it. Picture looks the same to me whether the player is outputting 720p or 480p and letting the 900u scale it.

Bought a few SACDs and a few DVD-As and they sound fantastic. I gotta look closer tho, wound up buying Police Synchronicity and its stereo only, not Multichannel. Oh well, sounds fantastic and was a good $14 purchase. I can see me building a collection by sweeping ebay tho, dont see me buying many full price.

Watched the new Wonka tonight, ok movie but it looked absolutely gorgeous. Episode 3 blew me away, gotta keep reminding myself that these arent even HD!

Why doesnt this player have Denon Link? You would think this level of product would support it. Got a fantastic quote on a 3806 when I bought the 1920 so I bit on it, the lack of Denon Link on the 1920 is the only surprise so far, not sure how much I would use it but its odd that its not there.

Sam

Oh and you guys complaining about the layer switch are out of your minds, its 1/4 the time of my first DVD player =)

Hello!

I would like to ask if someone can make a comparison between the Pioneer 585 (former 575) and Denon 1920 in terms of audio quality, when connected to a receiver through analogue outputs.I know the Pioneer used to have some ba4560 op amps inside, that weren't quite a standard in terms of audio quality...I also know that the D/A converter was a Burr-Brown pcm1742.
Video quality, as i understood by now, is above average for this price range.The Pioneer 585 uses an adv7300 video dac and lacks the HDMI output. As I do not own an LCD or plasma display, I'm just curious if connecting the Denon 1920 through component to my Panasonic CRT TX-32PX20 would make any difference between it and the Pioneer 585 (also connected through component video output).


Thank you in adavance!

P.S.: please excuse my bad english...as I'm not a native english speaker.

Man, not good news for my 1920. Personally the layer change bothered me, about the same as my 5 year old Pioneer 525. Was looking to beat that 1 at least, and then last night the power bug became apparent. Wouldn't power on at all. So, back it went and brought home a 2910. For $300 I was hoping for better from Denon. I won't accept a player that behaves this way.

I've been watching the Denon 1920 on a Hitachi TX200 projector and the Noisy picture is very annoying, i actually installed my cheap JVC last night half way through War of The Worlds because the noise was so bad.

I agree that the 1920 is a little noisy (just a notch more so than the S97 I had for a bit), but I think I've read that WOTW is a noisy source. Just throwing that out there to keep in mind...

I haven't noticed my 1920 being too noisy during play, though the drawer was kind of noisy when opening and closing. Taking a cue from the Gutwire Notepad, I grabbed one of those reusable gel ice packs, thawed it and put it on top of the player. Much more quiet than before, though I make no claims to enhanced audio output or PQ :-)

Heh, nice "tweak". I think we're talking about noise artifacts in the image, rather than audible tray noise. That said, I thought it was mechanically a little loud as well, but not overly obtrusive. :p

Oops, shoulda' read more carefully - noisy picture - my bad :)

Hi all,

New to this forum and proud owner of a new 1920. Just had a couple of questions I hope others could answer.

My receiver is a Denon 3805

First question is just on settings for Progressive Scan mode. I am using Component out into my Panasonic 50 in Plasma. My understanding is to leave the Progressive Scan OFF and allow the Plasma screen's scaler to take the 480i to it's native resolution, eg. 720p or something like that.

Is this the right logic and correct setting? And if so, DCDi by Faroudja still applied to the component output when Progressive is off?

Second question is on the Analog outs for multichannel SACD and such.

Would others recommend just leaving the 3805 DVD input on EXT IN and allow the 1920 to do all the processing? Or would there still be an advantage to only use EXT IN only for DVD-A and SACD multichannel and going digital in from DVD to 3805 for DVD movies and such?

My other question is on multichannel speaker setup since the 1920 has it's own setup area. Do we need to do anything here? I guess the reverse question is what does the 3805 do to the EXT IN signals? If we used auto-setup on the 3805 for speaker volume, delay, etc. Do those same settings get applied when EXT IN is used or does EXT IN bypass all of those settings. If it does bypass then I assume we need to be prudent about the setup on the 1920?

Hope that makes some sort of sense.

Thanks!

On question 1, I would set the DVD player to 480P, you will get a cleaner picture than 480i. On question 2, I use the analog for SACD & DVD-A only, and the optical or Coaxial for movies with DD or DTS. Second part, I use my receiver for these adjustments.

I've just concluded a rather lengthy series of video performance tests on the 1920 for a review article I'm writing. While testing color decoding for RGB over HDMI I've concluded that the 1920 erroneously uses the ITU-R BT.709 Y/Cr/Cb->RGB conversion matrix instead of the correct BT.601 matrix. This results in mis-decoded colors (most notably a hugely depressed green), rendering the picture inaccurate and the RGB over HDMI mode completely useless.

Has anyone else stumbled on this problem?

i have had the "green depression" problem with a Sony HDMI dvd player in the past (wasn't my main problem with the unit, i went through 3 that just ended up getting locked up after a few weeks), so it must have something to do with it being very easy for the manufacturers to improperly implement the colorspace for hdmi (which is completely ridiculous).

it's too bad....this 1920 was high on my list (and the reason i was subscribed to this thread) but now i wonder if there are ANY really nice upscaling universal (dvd-a and sacd) players without at least one major problem.

black crush and green depression : it seems like if a universal HDMI player doesn't have one of those problems it has the other.

Not necessarily, over Y/Cr/Cb it passes BTB and there seems to be no color space problem, which means it either transcodes the Y/Cr/Cb data to BT.709 when it upscales, or that it properly signals the correct color space through an AVI Infoframe to the sink (in my case a Sanyo Z3). Either way, Y/Cr/Cb seems fine in that respect.

I've contacted Denon regarding the bug in RGB and awaiting their response.

I've just concluded a rather lengthy series of video performance tests on the 1920 for a review article I'm writing. While testing color decoding for RGB over HDMI I've concluded that the 1920 erroneously uses the ITU-R BT.709 Y/Cr/Cb->RGB conversion matrix instead of the correct BT.601 matrix. This results in mis-decoded colors (most notably a hugely depressed green), rendering the picture inaccurate and the RGB over HDMI mode completely useless.

Has anyone else stumbled on this problem?
Could you post some pictures that demonstrate the problem? My 1920 feeds RGB over HDMI into a Philips 32"LCD and I'm more than happy with the picture quality. I can't say greens look "depressed". Have you noticed the "HDMI color range" setting and tried both the "Standard" and "Extended" modes, does this make any difference in your tests?

zeev -

my comments were directed towards the HDMI/upscaling aspect of the player. if i was going to just use it for component that would be fine, but there would also be many other players that fit my requirements (excellent PQ, SACD and DVD-A). as it stands i want all that with HDMI or DVI and every time i think i have found the perfect player it either has black crush/btb problems, or green depression over that upscaling output.

Caranthir,

The "Normal" and "Enhanced" modes correspond to Studio RGB levels (16 black, 235 reference white) and PC RGB levels (0 black, 255 white), it has no bearing on the color decoding process and doesn't fix the problem.
As I've already returned my sample unit I can't post pictures, but you can verify the existence of the bug easily using either Avia or DVE.
Alternatively, fire up a green enriched scene (say opening scenes of LOTR FOTR) and switch between RGB and Y/Cr/Cb, it might be more difficult to spot it this way, but I think you'll be able to see it. Best thing: get two units and two displays, and set one for RGB and the other for Y/Cr/Cb output.

oleus,

I was refering to the upscaled Y/Cr/Cb over HDMI, not analog component (which is Y/Pr/Pb).

zeev, thanks for the clarification. The Philips supports RGB only on its DVI input, whether I set HDMI color space to RGB or Y/Cr/Cb on the Denon makes no difference, the HDMI Info when I hit Display on the remote always says "RGB / 576p".

Actually I just watched FOTR just a few days ago and I'm always impressed by that opening scene when Frodo meets Gandalf, I can't imagine these greens should look any better. Anyway, I'll use the component out for a test and see if it makes any difference.

I don't have access to AVIA or DVE here, but I have a very similar test disc very popular here in Germany, called "Peter Finzel Test Disc SE". I used it to calibrate my setup and I honestly couldn't notice any colour related problems. There is also a BTB and WTW test on this disc and the Denon passed it without problems. What actually do you mean by "depressed greens"? Do they look not vivid enough, not saturated enough?

Bought the Denon 1920 because my sales person thought it was the best bang for the buck he had seen. He would be glad to sale me a more upscale model but thought it would be worth my time to give this one a shot. He said try the component hook up - gave it whirl. It is near perfect on my Panasonic plasma and that I did not think would happen. Music sounds great. It matches with my 3805 and that is nice but they all have the stealth look and just need to black for me. I was set not like this machine until it proved it self to me, and it had after my wife said if I wanted another or different DVD she wanted to keep this one for herself.

I just received my Denon 1920 yesterday...and am disappointed at first audition. This is actually my first progressive scanning player, as I still own my 2nd gen Sony from over 7-years ago.

First of all, while the faceplate looks nice, the quality of the drawer mechanism and overall weight of the chassis were huge disappointments. I guess I should have expected less.

Secondly, I have never experienced macroblocking first-hand before....and the 1920 is VERY BAD on my Mits Diamond CRT via the HDMI-DVI connection. I saw it before the movie even started -- the New Line logo on LOTR did it badly! It happened at both 480p and 1080i.

Tonight, I will try the component to see if the MB is present via that connection. Otherwise, I may return it or keep it as a budget DVD-A/SACD player and use my 7-year old Sony for DVD-V. Not pleased.

Note that all viewing was done AFTER calibration via Avia....

I have to admit that I was immediately put off and disappointed by the cheap feel of this unit when I removed it from the box, and the drive tray did nothing to off set that impression. I believe the box and associated packing may actually weigh more than the unit itself.

I do have to say, though, that it's video performance so far has been just peachy. I'm using it with a Pioneer PDP-4360HD plasma, utilizing the 1920's HDMI connection directly to the 4360's media receiver. I have not watch a lot of dvd's as yet but, so far, for the dvd's I have watched it has offered a very nice picture and no eveidence of the dreaded MB.

Although I do have it patched into my pre amp I have not used it to listed to CD's. I use my trusty, and built like a tank, Elite PD-65 for music.

Dan

Secondly, I have never experienced macroblocking first-hand before....and the 1920 is VERY BAD on my Mits Diamond CRT via the HDMI-DVI connection. I saw it before the movie even started -- the New Line logo on LOTR did it badly! It happened at both 480p and 1080i.

I see the blocks in the New Line logo on my 1920 too - but that's really because LOTR is far from being a reference DVD. Take any software decoder on your PC and you'll see the same thing. The blocks are already on the DVD. Besides, I wouldn't let the Denon do any upscaling at all - just avoid any double scaling. Mine is set to 576p (PAL model) and the picture on my Philips 32PF9966 is just perfect.

I see the blocks in the New Line logo on my 1920 too - but that's really because LOTR is far from being a reference DVD. Take any software decoder on your PC and you'll see the same thing. The blocks are already on the DVD.

I disagree....my 7-year old Sony does not have this artifact during the logo. The only artifacts I've ever noticed on the old Sony is the normal MPEG stuff, which is most likely source-related.

On the 1920, the opening scene in Palpatine's chambers in SWEP2 was HORRIBLE. I'll have to try the player via component, but as of right now, the slightly sharper picture and better colors over my old Sony aren't worth the macroblocking.

FYI - If you enter coupon code PA440 at Crutchfield you get $50 off on the 1920 making it $299 with free shipping. This code works for most purchases of $250 or more.

I thought it was always better to let the dvd player to the scaling, not the tv.

Hello,
I'm in the market for a DVD player with features the 1920 has. The general overview I see is disappointing. Anyone who has it would you recommend it? Thx.

I thought it was always better to let the dvd player to the scaling, not the tv.

Not always - sometimes the TV can do a better job. It depends on the display and how it handles incoming signals.

Rainstick - The 1920 is a decent player, I'd place it just a small notch behind the S97 in PQ (from when I auditioned both in my HT). If you don't suffer from macroblocking, it's a great universal player. You can probably get slightly better subjective performance (Little less noise, probably slightly less MB, and better secrets scores on the Oppo with quickness and such) out of the Oppo DV971H or the Panasonic S97/S77, but they are both DVD-A only. If you need options I would check those two out.

If you suffer from macroblocking like me, then I'd either look upwards in price (59AVi, 79AVi, SP1000) or in the moderate price bracket check out the Sony units - those would be your next best bet.

(Note: I own the 1920, and have auditioned a S97 alongside it. I've ordered a 79AVi)

I'm interested in the 1920 myself. Does the macroblocking show up on all displays, or just certain types? I have the new Hitachi HDPJ-52 (LCD projector)and would like to hook it up via HDMI. Thanks in advance for any help.

I've been able to spend a little more time with the 1920 now, but still haven't tried the component out yet.

I have not noticed macroblocking occuring on any of the other 10-12 movies I've watched since SWEPII and LOTR snippets. In fact, the picture has looked incredible and detailed on most everything....I thought it was funny that Palpatine's chambers on SWEPIII had virtually zero macroblocking, where they are a crawling red mess on the EPII.

In any case, given how many movies have not had noticeable/distracting macroblocking, I think I will be keeping the player. The layer change on every DVD so far has been far faster than my old Sony, so I have no complaints there. The navigation is a little slower but tolerable. The DD/PCM sound over the digital out is very good, so no issues there either.

I will be auditioning some DVD-A and SACD, as well as trying the component 480p out, shortly.

BTW -- my player does NOT have the power-off bug noted throughout most of this thread. I've repeatedly tried using the setup mentioned by previous posters and it has yet to do it. I guess Denon fixed it....:)

I'm going to replace my old 480i dvd player. I need a good player for my 43" Plasma Pioneer TV. I have a Denon 3801 avr and Vandersteen spkrs. My eyes are glazing over reading dvd player reviews. Want to you think of the Denon DVD 1920 DVD player and a HDMI cable from RamElectronics? What other players are out there that output good video and audio? Needs to be able to play burned cds and dvds.

Thanks,

Mike

be sure to buy from a store with a return policy. you may see macroblocking, and if you decide it bothers you, return it. the 1920 (actually all the player with its chip) has more problems with plasma than others.

i tried a 1920 and it didn't work with 55 hitiachi, so i switched to the sony (dvp-ns3100es), i thought of moving up the denon line, but that was over the price of the sony.

is Macroblocking a problem with this player when matched with an Infocus (7205) projector? thanks

I like the Faroudja players (Denon, Oppo, Panny, etc), but you may see MB with your plasma, in which case you'll have to go with a non-Faroudja player like Sony, Samsung, or Pioneer Elite (the new Pioneer 79ai looks like the winner here at the higher end).

Your comments and BA LB's comments are disturbing but enlightening. I've own Denon products for years and have been happy with them. I bought the 1920 from the Magnolia section of Best Buy. i went to BB to pick up a Sammy 845 to hold me over 'til the next generation of players hits the street. The Magnolia sales guy was very knowledgable. What reasonably priced player or recorder should I get for the Pioneer. Does BB sell anything that'll work? The 1920 is still in the box. I'm going to try it and take it right back if it doesn't work with the Pioneer.
What's the problem with Faroudja technology and plasma TVs?


Mike

ZDNet likes the Sony DVP-NS975V player. Any comments?

Mike

I have a Hitachi 55HDT51 and the Denon DVD-1920 and have no problems at all. I even tried it with the DVDs that have caused problems that others have reported.

The 1920 is still in the box. I'm going to try it and take it right back if it doesn't work with the Pioneer.
Mike
The 1920 works perfectly fine with my Pioneer 5050. No MB that I can notice.

I wonder what percentage of people who complain so loudly about MB from certain DVD players also watch satellite TV or digital cable -- macroblocking is the norm, not the exception, on certain digital TV sources.

The only problem I've had with Denon products is a defective first generation AVR.
When the factory authorized repair took more than a month Denon sent me the next model on the food chain AVR gratis.

After all of this I believe a DVD player carousel would better suit me needs.
Any suggestions?

Mike

The 1920 works perfectly fine with my Pioneer 5050. No MB that I can notice.

I wonder what percentage of people who complain so loudly about MB from certain DVD players also watch satellite TV or digital cable -- macroblocking is the norm, not the exception, on certain digital TV sources.

Just because I see MPEG compression on overly squeezed digital cable (which I watch a bunch of) doesn't mean I want to see it (enhanced, no less) on my DVDs as well. I've considered switching to OTA HD to try enjoy the benefits of an uncompressed signal, but haven't done it yet. That said, there's a difference between seeing MPEG compression on a DVD or cable and suffering from the "macroblock enhance bug".

I use the opening scene of Master and Commander as an example - with the 1920 the dark part in the hold of the ship is nearly impossible to watch; there are no color graduations in the transition between the dark and light parts. It's all blotchy and distracting and frankly is unwatchable - I've tweaked to make it better, but there's only so much I can do. Now, when I play it without macroblocking (59AVi for example), yes I can see some MPEG compression from time to time (when the view goes dark left to right), but it is very subtle. There is a big difference between the two.

I would argue that yes, MPEG compression is the norm, but is not as visible or distracting as the "macroblocking bug", which takes said compression and amplifies it into a monster of an image. Consider yourself lucky if either A) it doesn't bother you, or B) you don't suffer from it and only see the MPEG compression.

I just hooked up the 1920 with only modifying aspect ratio to 16x9 and changing output to 720p using HDMI and I must say the colors, especially flesh tones and reds, appear to be very vibrant and accurate.

To 1920 users how do you recommend changing default settings to get the best out of the 1920 connected to a Pioneer plasma tv?

Miek

Johnnyozero, I don't know what macro blocking or mpeg compression mean. My input signal is either Comcast HD or DVDs. I just watched Pirates of the Caribbean and did notice lack of detail in the black three corner hats at times. other than that
the images were, well, spectacular.

Mike

I have a few questions about the Denon 1920. I recently purchased this player at Tweeter last week. After reading this thread and the manual, If I am using a HDMI to DVI hookup, do I NOT turn on progressive scan? The manual states that all video through the hdmi is interlaced so that must mean the progressive scan is useless for hdmi hookup? Also, since I have the HDMI to DVI that means that it is in RGB and you can choose Enhanced video in RGB mode. When I had the video on normal setting, everything looked real bright but when I chose Enhanced video it was a great improvement. Just was wondering if anyone else has noticed that the enhanced option looked a lot better? My TV is a 2004 55315 Mitsubishi Rear Projection HDTV. Again I am using my TV's DVI input off a HDMI to DVI cable.

Thanks for any input you can give me...

progressive is definately an option over HDMI. RGB is also probably your best setting because you are going to DVI. If Enhanced looks good, use it :) Try a calibration DVD like Digital Video Essentials...that will help even more :)

Johnnyozero, I don't know what macro blocking or mpeg compression mean. My input signal is either Comcast HD or DVDs. I just watched Pirates of the Caribbean and did notice lack of detail in the black three corner hats at times. other than that
the images were, well, spectacular.

Mike


the visible MPEG compression i'm talking about are just byproducts, or visible artifacts of the MPEG encoding process. Kinda like blocky internet video, but not to that extreme. The macroblocking error is an artificial enhancement of that compression that makes it even more visible, and does downright nasty things to you picture quality.

If the 1920 is working for you...good :) It's a good player for many tvs.

OK, now I understand. I see that effect occasionally with Comcast HD.

Mike

I have a few questions about the Denon 1920. I recently purchased this player at Tweeter last week. After reading this thread and the manual, If I am using a HDMI to DVI hookup, do I NOT turn on progressive scan? The manual states that all video through the hdmi is interlaced so that must mean the progressive scan is useless for hdmi hookup? Also, since I have the HDMI to DVI that means that it is in RGB and you can choose Enhanced video in RGB mode. When I had the video on normal setting, everything looked real bright but when I chose Enhanced video it was a great improvement. Just was wondering if anyone else has noticed that the enhanced option looked a lot better? My TV is a 2004 55315 Mitsubishi Rear Projection HDTV. Again I am using my TV's DVI input off a HDMI to DVI cable.

Thanks for any input you can give me...

What you think you read about the HDMI output is NOT TRUE. The HDMI output can output 480p, 720p, or 1080i. You CANNOT output 480i.

If you are running HDMI to DVI, you can set the colorspace to RGB, but it won't matter because the player will automatically set to RGB anyway when it senses the DVI connection at the other end. Furthermore, the Enhanced setting should be set to OFF, not ON. If it looks better with the Enhanced setting ON, then you need to calibrate your TV to the 1920. (I have a Mits Diamond CRT RPTV with a DVI input.)

Can anyone tell me the device code for remote control--for this unit 1920? thanks

What you think you read about the HDMI output is NOT TRUE. The HDMI output can output 480p, 720p, or 1080i. You CANNOT output 480i.

If you are running HDMI to DVI, you can set the colorspace to RGB, but it won't matter because the player will automatically set to RGB anyway when it senses the DVI connection at the other end. Furthermore, the Enhanced setting should be set to OFF, not ON. If it looks better with the Enhanced setting ON, then you need to calibrate your TV to the 1920. (I have a Mits Diamond CRT RPTV with a DVI input.)

I have to chime in here. The 1920 users manual states that when using the HDMI mode, even when progressive scan is set to on, the output is always interlace thru the HDMI connection. Do you know this to not be true? It really doesn't affect me since I output in 1080i to my Sony SXRD, which is 1080p and the set has to deinterlace anyway. Although, I thought about using the component connections so that I could output in 720p and let the tv scale the picture but not have to do the deinterlacing. I though the 1920 might do a better job than the tv at the deinterlacing.

I have to chime in here. The 1920 users manual states that when using the HDMI mode, even when progressive scan is set to on, the output is always interlace thru the HDMI connection. Do you know this to not be true? It really doesn't affect me since I output in 1080i to my Sony SXRD, which is 1080p and the set has to deinterlace anyway. Although, I thought about using the component connections so that I could output in 720p and let the tv scale the picture but not have to do the deinterlacing. I though the 1920 might do a better job than the tv at the deinterlacing.

You are not reading the manual correctly or there is a typo in the manual....which should be obvious if HDMI can output 480p and 720p! The component can only output 480i or 480p!

In your case I would experiment with sending all three resolutions to your SXRD (480p, 720p, 1080i) over HDMI.

You are not reading the manual correctly or there is a typo in the manual....which should be obvious if HDMI can output 480p and 720p! The component can only output 480i or 480p!

In your case I would experiment with sending all three resolutions to your SXRD (480p, 720p, 1080i) over HDMI.


This is a direct quote from the 1920 manual.
"In the HDMI output mode, even when PROGRESSIVE is set to ON, signals are always output as Interlace". Am I reading this wrong?
Here is a link to the online manual at Denon. It is on page 25 of the manual. http://usa.denon.com/DVD1920_ownersmanual.pdf

I asked you if you knew this to be incorrect. You said it should be obvious if HDMI can support 480p and 720p. I say that just because it can be supported does not be that the manufacturer does. I have a Tivo unit that only sends 2 channel audio over HDMI when it is capable of supporting 5.1.

Does anyone know for a FACT that the manual is wrong, and the unit does IN FACT output progressive over HDMI?

Does anyone know for a FACT that the manual is wrong, and the unit does IN FACT output progressive over HDMI?

YES IT IS AND YES IT DOES. That's the whole point of the player! The 1920 outputs 480p, 720p, and 1080i out of the HDMI, as has been stated numerous times....including my post 4 posts above.

The component outputs only do 480i and 480p, like every other single mainstream player on the market.

This is a direct quote from the 1920 manual.
"In the HDMI output mode, even when PROGRESSIVE is set to ON, signals are always output as Interlace". Am I reading this wrong?
Here is a link to the online manual at Denon. It is on page 25 of the manual. http://usa.denon.com/DVD1920_ownersmanual.pdf

I asked you if you knew this to be incorrect. You said it should be obvious if HDMI can support 480p and 720p. I say that just because it can be supported does not be that the manufacturer does. I have a Tivo unit that only sends 2 channel audio over HDMI when it is capable of supporting 5.1.

Does anyone know for a FACT that the manual is wrong, and the unit does IN FACT output progressive over HDMI?


Maybe it means that if you are simultaneously outputting via component and HDMI, that the component output is forced to 480i. That's my guess.

If not that, then yes it is a typo. The 1920 does progressive 480p and 720p over HDMI. I'm using 720p right now.

YES IT IS AND YES IT DOES. That's the whole point of the player! The 1920 outputs 480p, 720p, and 1080i out of the HDMI, as has been stated numerous times....including my post 4 posts above.

The component outputs only do 480i and 480p, like every other single mainstream player on the market.


If progressive scan was the "whole point to the player" then if would not be worth it. I think the whole point to the 1920 would be the ability to upscale video and the ability to play dvd audio and sacd all in one player. As you can see by reading the manual it DOES state: "In the HDMI output mode, even when PROGRESSIVE is set to ON, signals are always output as Interlace". Now another poster probably is right when he stated "Maybe it means that if you are simultaneously outputting via component and HDMI, that the component output is forced to 480i" but it certainly is NOT written this way.

FYI

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If progressive scan was the "whole point to the player" then if would not be worth it. I think the whole point to the 1920 would be the ability to upscale video and the ability to play dvd audio and sacd all in one player. As you can see by reading the manual it DOES state: "In the HDMI output mode, even when PROGRESSIVE is set to ON, signals are always output as Interlace". Now another poster probably is right when he stated "Maybe it means that if you are simultaneously outputting via component and HDMI, that the component output is forced to 480i" but it certainly is NOT written this way.

FYI

<><


Thanks, after I getting home and checking my tv to see what type of signal it is getting, it is indeed receiving progressive over HDMI from the 1920.

rynberg must think everyone is stupid. I just thought was he was being a smart @$$ by telling the other poster that he mis-read or didn't understand what he was reading. Obviously, rynberg knows everything.

If progressive scan was the "whole point to the player" then if would not be worth it. I think the whole point to the 1920 would be the ability to upscale video and the ability to play dvd audio and sacd all in one player. As you can see by reading the manual it DOES state: "In the HDMI output mode, even when PROGRESSIVE is set to ON, signals are always output as Interlace". Now another poster probably is right when he stated "Maybe it means that if you are simultaneously outputting via component and HDMI, that the component output is forced to 480i" but it certainly is NOT written this way.

FYI

<><


If I had my PJ I could check and see what it is doing on component. Sigh.

Anyhow, there's no such thing as 720i, unless the player is outputting a 720p signal, but only making up the image in an interlaced manner, thus fooling the display. I have no idea how that would work and if it could even exist. My pj shows 720p as the incoming signal anyways.

I bet it is just Denon monkeys doing a bang-up job on writing the manual. This has got to be one of the worst manuals I've ever seen.