Denon DVD-1920 [Text View]

AlieniceT

08-08-05, 07:41 PM

Neither the 1920 or 1720 U.S. models from Denon have DivX capability, despite a picture of the front panel of the 1720 on Crutchfied showing the DivX logo. European advance press on the 1920 showed DivX compatibility as well. In the U.S., the inclusion of DivX in a player from a "high-end" company like Denon apparently dilutes the perception of quality. Until Panasonic or Sony adds DivX support for their players, expect this trend to continue...

Also, it appears that the 1920 offers only the three basic video outputs over HDMI: 480p, 720p, and 1080i. No 480i. :(

It will be interesting to see how the performance of the 1920 fares compared to the Panny S77/S97, Oppo DV971H and Sony DVP-NS975V. They represent solid competition. The Denon costs more than all of them, and there are even less expensive non-Faroudja universals out there than the Sony 975 (Sammy HD950 and new Toshiba SD-6980) which offer upconversion over HDMI. The new Toshiba is $199 MSRP, and includes a 10-in-2 media card slot and DivX.

Robert George

08-08-05, 09:35 PM

As an aside, I realize there are any number of players out there that do more things than the Denon 1920, or whatever player you want to talk about, and they often do it cheaper. My experience, however, has shown that they don't necessarily do it better, or even correctly. I will be interested in putting the 1920 through its paces. If it does even basic video performance better than its lower-priced competitors that might have more features, then I know what I will be recommending to my clients at this price point.

shuttermaker

08-08-05, 10:08 PM

Im anxious to hear reviews of this player from other AVS members who will without a doubt know what exactly to look for, when grading this player. I however am pretty much a novice at this sort of thing. At this point my major concern will be macroblocking.

Ive never purchased anything from Denon. Hope it lives up to the hype.

jonnyozero3

08-10-05, 08:42 AM

Yesterday, I just received my new Panny S97 from Vanns and picked up a new Denon DVD-1920 from Nebraska Furniture Mart for a little comparison. I have a few dvds I will use (Master & Commander, Nemo, Gladiator, Tv-shows), Avia and the HQV test disc. I'm no expert at this, but I will try to post as complete thoughts as I can. I'm going to stay away from analogue audio since that's new to me.

Does anyone have any specific recommendations for test images on Avia to use, or some specific DVDs that would show something in particular? My display is a Toshiba MT700. I'll try to take some crappy digital photos as well.

shuttermaker

08-10-05, 05:47 PM

Received the Denon 1920 today, picture is very nice. I watched parts of Gladiator, Black Hawk Down, The Fifth Element, and Independence day. NO MACROBLOCKING as of yet. I used the HDMI port, component, and HDMI to DVI on the TV.

The sound was incredible. Much better than what i was used to in the past.

AlieniceT

08-10-05, 05:51 PM

Initial impressions of Denon DVD-1920 (video only)

I've been running my new DVD-1920 through its' paces today, and my initial impression is that it is an improvement over the 1910. It does a number of things very well. I have only tested video so far, but this is what I have seen:

1 - Passes HQV torture test disc easily. There are no noise reduction controls with the 1920, but it scored well on the HQV section that evaluates noise reduction performance.
2 - Calibrates through DVE & Avia with exactly the same settings in my set-up as my Panny S97.
3 - Outstanding picture quality - exceptional detail and color fidelity. No jaggies on the HQV test disc, and no shimmer on the DVE skyscraper sequence.
4 - Macroblocking levels comparable to S97 (there to see, but nowhere close to the levels of the 1910). I am not finished with MB testing, however. I believe this is where the 1920 will either fall in with the other Faroudja players, or separate themselves from the pack.
5 - Menu navigation is average, chapter skips are good. Layer changes are OK, about 1 second. Not exactly a 2900!
6 - There are 5 forward and reverse search speeds (x2, x8, x20, x50, x100). There is no reverse frame-by-frame, only forward, by way of repeat pressing of the PAUSE button. Kinda disappointing.
7 - Plays DVD+R DL media with no problems.

I have examined the performance of the 1920 using Toy Story I & II, Seven (2-disc Special Edition), Robocop (Criterion), Dark City, True Lies, The Silence of The Lambs (Criterion), The Killer (Criterion) and Alien 20th Anniversary Edition in addition to the HQV Benchmark, DVE and Avia.

Other observations:

1 - Remote control is HUGE, but has decent range. Layout is different - specifically with the transport keys. Buttons for functions included on the remotes of the 2910, 3910 & 5910 are only available on the front panel with the 1920 (Pure direct mode, HDMI output). A lot of unused real estate on the face of this puppy.
2 - User adjustments are good, but not in the same league as the Panny S97. No incremental zoom (only 2X & 4X), GUI or subtitle brightness tweaks, etc. No user picture presets. There are no noise reduction adjustments, either.
3 - No 16:9 squeeze/compressed setting. 4:3 Squeeze setting plays back 16:9 material and 4:3 full-frame correctly. This is the best setting for 16:9 displays. However, non-anamorphic WS titles like True Lies are stretched horizontally to fill the display. Many displays have no way to correct this. None of mine, at least. This is a point against the 1920, as the Panny S97 has auto detection of 4:3 material (non-anamorphic WS is just a letterboxed 4:3 image) and incremental zoom to fill your 16:9 display exactly.
4 - No PAL support whatsoever. This is a slight disappointment, but I figured that Denon would cut some corners.
5 - Selection of HDMI resolutions is limited to the front panel of the 1920 only. With all that unused space on the remote, it's a little unusual not to have the convenience of cycling through the available resolutions from the remote. However, once you have settled on the resolution that works best for your display, the need to change it is basically nil.
6 - Available resolutions through HDMI are 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Nothing more. No 480i. :(
7 - Unit is very light, but build quality is quite acceptable and styling is classic Denon. Front panel is aluminum. I like its' looks very much. It reminds me of my Denon DVD-1600. I have the black model DVD-1920, but it is available in silver as model DVD-756S (in stock at Onecall.com).

I am not finished evaluating the 1920's video performance, but thus far it is a very solid performer on par with the Panny's and the Oppo. It is not as full featured as the Panny S97. But, as the S97 is the top player in Panasonic's DVD line, this is not surprising. There are three models above the 1920 in the Denon lineup.

I will be testing DVD-A and SACD this evening, if time permits. I have Beck (Sea Change), Pink Floyd (DSOTM), Joe Satriani (Strange Beautiful Music), Miles Davis (Kind Of Blue), Roxy Music (Avalon) and Nine Inch Nails (Downward Spiral) that I will be listening to on SACD, as well as DVD-A discs NIN (With Teeth) and Foo Fighters (One By One). My other universal player is a Pioneer DV-59AVi, so I will compare the 1920 to that unit.

Time to go have some fun! :D

millerwill

08-10-05, 05:59 PM

topspeed

08-11-05, 01:44 AM

Great review AT, I'm really interested in your impression of the audio side as well. Like Millerwill, I'm also curious as to how it stacks up to the 2910 as the spec'd audio and video dac's are of lesser quality (according to Denon's website).

Looking forward to your (and anyone else's) observations.

AlieniceT

08-11-05, 06:19 AM

Quick observation: Watched portions of Dark City on the 1920 last night after some SACD listening (which is exceptional - but I will review that later) and yes, there is macroblocking. I noticed it when watching portions of Alien on Wednesday, but the MB on Alien is on the disc itself, as I can see it during the space flight sequences on my Pioneer DV-59AVi.

I set my system up to do A/B comparisons between the DVD-1920 and the Pio 59AVi with macroblocking. Later today I will A/B the 1920 against the Panny S97 to compare macroblocking severity between the two.

The MB I observed on the 1920 was moderate, but noticeable. On an uncalibrated display, it just might be a little too much. :(

invertiga

08-11-05, 08:51 AM

I was looking into getting a 1910 to replace my recently dead sony player of 5+yrs. I was looking for a upscaling player that would output via DVI. I live in Australia so I haven't heard any news on the 1920. I use a SP4805, so a M1->HDMi adapter isn't out of the question to use a 1920 if/when it gets here; or a higher end denon model. Question is then, since both sound/video go via hdmi, can u send video via hdmi to 4805 projector and sound via optical out on the denon to reciever? because the 4805 doesn't have a sound passthrough as far as i know?

jonnyozero3

08-11-05, 10:26 AM

Invertiga - Yes, it is quite normal to send a digital audio connection like coax or optical to your receiver while hooking up your HDMI for viedo to your pj. That what most people do as far as I know. I think receivers with HDMI audio/video are not overly common. The 1920 handles this like any of dvd player.

Patrick TX

08-11-05, 11:19 AM

No 16:9 squeeze/compressed setting for 4:3 is a MAJOR faux pas IMO. The other Denon's offer this, right? I know my 2900, 59AVI, & S97 all offer it. That just killed it IMO. Also, are you sure that the MB you see on Alien isn't faulty compression when it was authored? Which Alien, original or SE?

AlieniceT

08-11-05, 11:34 AM

Also, are you sure that the MB you see on Alien isn't faulty compression when it was authored? Which Alien, original or SE?

The MB on Alien (20th Anniversary Edition - not the Quadrilogy) is on the disc (at 1:09:48 for about 20sec.) and therefore has to be poor compression. The fact that my 59AVi shows it proves that out.
However, on Dark City, the 1920 shows macroblocking at the 20:12 mark for about 30 seconds that does not appear on my 59AVi. If you pause the Denon during the MB, you can see green blocks amongst the otherwise dark background in this sequence.
I am still testing the 1920 for MB and plan on evaluating its' overall severity over the next day or so.

toddbarry

08-11-05, 01:27 PM

AlieniceT

08-11-05, 03:08 PM

I was trying to setup the DVD-1920 last night at my dad's house. It is connected to a Panasonic TH-50PX500U via HDMI. This is my first HDMI configuration and...I can't get it to work. There is nothing showing on the display when I select the HDMI input.
The HDMI light on the 1920 lights up so it seems it is communicating with the display. If I unplug either end, the HDMI light goes out. If I turn off the 1920, the input message (HDMI DVD) shows up on the display.

Suggestions? How can I figure out if the problem is the HDMI output from the 1920 or the HDMI input on the display? Have I missed some setup option?

1) - Make sure you do not have Pure Direct mode engaged. It can only be turned on or off from the front panel. The button is located next to the HDMI button on the right. It must be off in order to pass a video signal. If it is on, you will see the HDMI light on the front panel but no other display.

2) - Disconnect the HDMI cable and hook up the 1920 via component, S-video or composite connection. That should get you a display, and from there you can check the HDMI output status and settings and change them if you need to. In the worst case scenario, hit the SET-UP key on the remote. When the set-up page appears, cursor over to the on-screen menu option INITIALIZE, and hit enter on the remote (you have to hit it twice, I think). This resets the unit to its' default settings all around and if it is not defective you should be OK, provided your HDMI cable is good.

3) - The 1920 has four video output modes over HDMI. The Default setting out of the box is OFF. Any of the other three settings should give you a display.

4) - Since this is the first HDMI device you have connected to the Panasonic display, you may have a bad cable. I know that the 1920 does not come with its' own cable. There could be a small chance that your cable is bad, although if you are getting the HDMI light to light up and stay on without blinking, your cable is probably working properly. If you know someone willing to let you borrow a known good HDMI cable that they have, it would help eliminate the cable as a possible cause.

Let us know if none of these tips help to generate an image on your plasma.

BillP

08-11-05, 03:41 PM

No 16:9 squeeze/compressed setting for 4:3 is a MAJOR faux pas IMO. The other Denon's offer this, right?
Yes, I can manually turn on a "Sqeeze" function on my 3910 in order to watch 4:3 DVDs as 4:3 rather than stretched. This would be a deal breaker for me too (not that I'd be changing from a 3910 to a 1920).

toddbarry

08-11-05, 03:55 PM

AlieniceT

08-11-05, 05:50 PM

Yes, I can manually turn on a "Sqeeze" function on my 3910 in order to watch 4:3 DVDs as 4:3 rather than stretched. This would be a deal breaker for me too (not that I'd be changing from a 3910 to a 1920).

The 4:3 Squeeze setting on the 1920 allows for correct playback of both anamorphic 16:9 and 4:3 content. However, non-anamorphic widescreen titles, which can be identified as 4:3 letterboxed content or widescreen content, depending on how the disc was authored, are totally unpredictable with this player. I have fed the 1920 over a dozen non-anamorphic widescreen titles, and only those from Criterion and Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978) from MGM were windowboxed correctly. All the others, from major studios - True Lies (Fox), Event Horizon (Paramount), The Game (Polygram), anything from Anchor Bay, were all stretched horizontally to fill the screen, losing the proper aspect ratio.

Additionally, for those non-anamorphic widescreen titles that are windowboxed, the zoom function on the Denon is useless. It has two options, x2 and x4. Both look absolutely horrible and are far too much to use on a windowboxed title. This is one area where the Panasonic S97 has major points over the 1920. The Panasonic, in spite of some comments about sub-par PQ when zoomed, has significantly better PQ in zoom mode than the Denon. If anyone who has the 1920 can think of a situation where its' zoom would be even remotely useful, I'm all ears as to when it would not be a complete waste of time. A firmware update offering x1.2, x1.25, x1.3, etc. would be helpful if the PQ was not too degraded.

Bottom line: The Denon DVD-1920 handles 16:9 widescreen content and 4:3 full frame content just fine. That could be 90-95% (or higher) of most users DVD collections. But if you have a number of non-anamorphic widescreen titles in your DVD collection, then you will only be able to fill your widescreen display properly if your display allows for incremental zooming.

BillP

08-11-05, 06:56 PM

The 3910 does handle those correctly (I watched Invasion of the Body Snatchers just the other week). So clearly they are cutting some corners with the 1920.

Patrick TX

08-11-05, 07:00 PM

The 4:3 Squeeze setting on the 1920 allows for correct playback of both anamorphic 16:9 and 4:3 content. However, non-anamorphic widescreen titles, which can be identified as 4:3 letterboxed content or widescreen content, depending on how the disc was authored, are totally unpredictable with this player. I have fed the 1920 over a dozen non-anamorphic widescreen titles, and only those from Criterion and Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978) from MGM were windowboxed correctly. All the others, from major studios - True Lies (Fox), Event Horizon (Paramount), The Game (Polygram), anything from Anchor Bay, were all stretched horizontally to fill the screen, losing the proper aspect ratio.

Additionally, for those non-anamorphic widescreen titles that are windowboxed, the zoom function on the Denon is useless. It has two options, x2 and x4. Both look absolutely horrible and are far too much to use on a windowboxed title. This is one area where the Panasonic S97 has major points over the 1920. The Panasonic, in spite of some comments about sub-par PQ when zoomed, has significantly better PQ in zoom mode than the Denon. If anyone who has the 1920 can think of a situation where its' zoom would be even remotely useful, I'm all ears as to when it would not be a complete waste of time. A firmware update offering x1.2, x1.25, x1.3, etc. would be helpful if the PQ was not too degraded.

Bottom line: The Denon DVD-1920 handles 16:9 widescreen content and 4:3 full frame content just fine. That could be 90-95% (or higher) of most users DVD collections. But if you have a number of non-anamorphic widescreen titles in your DVD collection, then you will only be able to fill your widescreen display properly if your display allows for incremental zooming.

I'm clear now. No faux pas. Most players won't handle non anamorphic correctly anyway. As a matter of fact, only the RP91 & old Malata come to mind. I was under the impression it was stretching 4:3 (evil).

AlieniceT

08-11-05, 07:19 PM

I'm clear now. No faux pas. Most players won't handle non anamorphic correctly anyway. As a matter of fact, only the RP91 & old Malata come to mind. I was under the impression it was stretching 4:3 (evil).

I'm having no problems with non-anamorphic titles with my Panny S97. :) But the Denon kills the Panny on audio. I'm listening to music on the 1920 now, and its' performance on SACD is very close to my 59AVi. Too close for $349! :D The Burr-Brown PCM-1738 DAC's in the 1920 were featured in Denon's AVR-5803 flagship receiver not too long ago. These same DAC's are spec'd for the new 79AVi, as well. My take on this model at this point is that it is an excellent universal (emphasizing audio quality) with the benefits (and drawbacks) of the FLI-2301 deinterlacer/scaler.

Notti

08-11-05, 08:11 PM

AlieniceT,
Thanks for the review. If there's no pixel cropping and the HDMI -> DVI conversion is handled properly, this is the player for me. Could you, or anybody else who owns it, test those issues? Thanks in advance!

tylerb2002

08-12-05, 02:57 PM

Not trying to change the subject, but I was playing around with my 1920 last night (came in from Crutchfield yesterday), and had a couple of first impressions that weren't mentioned yet. No comments on picture quality yet, as my TV was just ordered this morning (Sharp LC37G4U), so right now I'm just using S-Video (gasp!) to my non-HD, non-widescreen 27" sony CRTV.

Frankly, I was a little disappointed with the audio setup options. In order to get into the setup menu to change speaker levels, you have to stop your movie. I am using the 5.1 analog outputs in order to take advantage of the BB DAC's, so my speaker levels, delay times, etc are set up in the Denon vs. my receiver. I like to be able to change the speaker levels without stopping the movie (ie. too much bass--turn down sub...poor voice soundtrack--turn up center, etc). On top of that, you can't raise a level above +0dB, only lower it. Since I wanted to increase the sub, I had to decrease everything else.

Another minor point--The delay times are set up by choosing your distance from the speakers, but you don't have much flexibility here . For your front speakers, you have a decent range of distances, but for the center channel, the max is 12' . Since my center and fronts are about 15' from the couch, and I wanted to match front and centers, I had to set all 3 at 12'. Also, it only gives you a few choices for rear speakers - can't remember, but I think it's 2', 8', 12', or something like that. Again, not a deal breaker, but I was surprised. I hope that video setup is a little better.

I was more irritated by the out-of-movie speaker level adjustments than the delay time issue, but I will deal with both since overall it sounds amazing. I am upgrading from a Pioneer 5-disc changer (DVC-503) that ran me about $300 several years ago, so I expected to give up some of the more user freindly features of the Pioneer for the better quality of the Denon. I can definitely accept that, especially with SACD and DVD-A capabilities. I only watched part of Star Wars Ep. IV so far, and I can't wait to hear (and see) more of what this thing can do.

More to come when the Sharp comes in.

--tb

UUronl

08-12-05, 04:34 PM

Do you use a calibration disc like the Chesky DVD-Audio one? The delay units are meaningless in my experience - it's more about getting the test pops to image in the correct place. The center and front time alignment ensures that you get sound that can image precisely across the front soundfield. Small variations in delay and/or speaker placement (depth) can affect the necessary change. It is my understanding that the delay of the three fronts are only important relative to each other to achieve the imaging I just mentioned. If you don't own the Chesky disc, I highly recommend it. I had no idea other methods for adjusting TA were so lacking until I used their system.

My friend just picked this player up yesterday and has it hooked to the new Sony 50A10 3LCD Grand Wega via HDMI 720p. There are no error messages with the audio like with the Samsung 950 and the sound plays out of the TV via HDMI.

jonnyozero3

08-12-05, 08:15 PM

AlieniceT

08-12-05, 09:29 PM

For those checking out the 1920 in regards to macroblocking - could you please check your HDMI colorspace setting in the setup menu?

I found when I changed mine from RGB to YPbPr and recalibrated that the MB I saw seeing GREATLY decreased to a very low level. Does this affect anyone else?

I noted the same results. On some displays (DVI inputs), only RGB will be available. The 1920 may not be a good choice for those who plan to convert the HDMI to DVI. The YPbPr setting lowers the MB on the Denon after recalibration, but to my eyes in a head-to-head with the Panny S97, the Panny still has less MB than the Denon at any colorspace setting, including RGB.

Overall PQ, on the other hand, is very close. I have yet to determine a winner. With well mastered DVD's, both players produce outstanding images.

jonnyozero3

08-12-05, 11:18 PM

AlieniceT - That's very interesting. I did some calibration and tried some various settings and couldn;t get my Panny S97 to produce a decent image during the Master and Commander opening scene (dark part where the guy goes through the ship). The Denon produce a passable image, but I am distraught with how my viewing turned out this evening. I will be spending some more time with the pair this weekend and next week before I decide which one, if any, to keep.

I'm not even sure which colorspace setting I settled on. I noticed that it is very difficult to set things correctly using the THX optimizer on the Incredibles (I also have Nemo and wonder if it will work better). The black drop shadow is blotchy on the edges and the blacker than black drop shadow and two boxes on the top right are a different tone than the other blacks - they almost seem to get glossier than the rest of the blacks depending on the setting. I have a lot of tweaking to try.

I still need to check my S97 firmware as well.

Dang, I hoped this was going to be an easy decision one way or another, instead it's turning into damage control. Grrr...Arrrg.

AlieniceT

08-13-05, 12:51 AM

jonnyozero3,
I've been comparing the 1920 and 97S on my Panny plasma for the past two days. The plasma has been calibrated with Avia and DVE, and I've had a Pioneer 59AVi hooked up to it for the past eight months. I'm using this plasma to test the S97 and 1920 because they are notorious for revealing/exaggerating macroblocking.

I've been trying to compare the two models using discs that are not "in-your-face", the way Pixar animated features and action spectacles tend to be. I am testing with titles that have little or no edge enhancement, subtle shadow details and natural color gradations, all the things that usually do not demo well on a poorly calibrated display.

I ran "The Gift" through both machines over the past couple hours, and I have found that the Denon has a slightly more detailed image on my plasma, but at a slight penalty with regard to grain or noise in the signal. I am running each machine with their sharpness settings at zero, and HDMI colorspace on each unit at YPbPr (4:4:4 on the S97).

I think Denon has set-up the 1920 with a detail setting (TrueLife on FLI-2301?) slightly higher than Panasonic has with the FLI-2310 on the S97 - it could also be in the MPEG decoder they are using. Pure speculation on my part. But in my set-up, the Denon is just a bit sharper. I think that is why I see more macroblocking with the 1920 than on the S97 - the greater level of detail with the 1920 extends to the MB as well. On the S97, some of the MB is reduced to the same artifact level as false contouring on my plasma, which through calibration is a minimal distraction.

My S97 is a June 2005 model with firmware 86H360. I am not going to upgrade to the newer 362 firmware as of yet, since I still have more viewing tests planned. One member has noted that after updating firmware, he lost the ability to select his HDMI colorspace setting. I don't know if I would be happy with that. :p

Raistlin_HT

08-13-05, 02:22 PM

AlieniceT,

Out of curiosity, what sort (if any) hacks are available to the 59ai? Is there region free an option? Upconversion over component?

Does the 59ai handle blacker than black? Does it do proper colorspace handling when upconverting (no green depression)?

Finally, how about alternate resolution outputs? Or is it stuck at 480p, 720p, and 1080i? Can it do 480i over HDMI?

Thanks!

HDntheCity

08-13-05, 03:01 PM

AlieniceT

08-13-05, 03:17 PM

Does the 59ai handle blacker than black? Does it do proper colorspace handling when upconverting (no green depression)?

Finally, how about alternate resolution outputs? Or is it stuck at 480p, 720p, and 1080i? Can it do 480i over HDMI?

The 59AVi outputs BTB over HDMI as well as component. HDMI colorspace processing is also done properly. 480i over HDMi is available, making the 59AVi a popular choice for those with external scalers. It is my main HT DVD player. I am evaluating the Denon 1920 and Panny S97 for my bedroom HT.

Out of curiosity, what sort (if any) hacks are available to the 59ai? Is there region free an option? Upconversion over component?

There are no remote or firmware hacks that I am aware of for the 59AVi, but the unit can be modified for Region Free. JVB Digital offers the modification service:

http://www.jvbdigital.com/jvb.asp?cur=2&level=modifications&page=title&title=645

However, this modification only allows for discs from any region to be played. The 59AVi will output PAL discs only in PAL - no conversion is performed. You will need a multisystem monitor or PJ in order to play both PAL and NTSC discs on the 59AVi after modification. I would expect that the 59AVi offers 576i/576p for PAL after modification, also. Upconversion over component has not been accomplished, to my knowledge.

AlieniceT

08-13-05, 03:26 PM

how is the video performance of the 1920 thru component output to a CRT rear projection monitor? my Toshiba 50HX81 has no digital video input so i'm curious about the component video quality. i have a Panny RP82 but am looking at the 1920 for the SACD playback. also how is the MB issue on CRT displays in general since i understand certain displays show it more than others(although there is no list AFAIK that tells you which displays are more prone to MB.)
jim

I have a CRT tube (not RP) HDTV which I will be using to check out the 1920 later today, and I can test component performance for PQ and MB at that time. However, I would expect that you will not find PQ as good as the RP82 from the 1920 over component, as the RP82/XP30/50 Panny's basically set the bar for 480i/480p performance over component.

The SACD performance of the 1920 is outstanding, BTW.

mgkg3

08-13-05, 07:06 PM

AlieniceT:

Thanks for the suggestions.

1) I made sure that the Pure Direct mode was off (I did notice that the front display shut off when it was on).

2) I will work with my dad to get an alternate output connected from the 1920. I didn't think there was anything to setup though on the 1920 side other than selecting the desired HDMI mode (720p in this case).

3) I tried all of the HDMI modes. Changing them had no effect (not even a flicker or anything).

4) I tend to think the cable is OK since the HDMI light stays on. Not sure where I could get another to test with without buying one though.

I have never seen a picture via HDMI so I was really looking forward to getting this going.

-Todd

Hi Todd,

I had bought 1910 when it first came out to connect with my Panny PDP via DVI. The was such a handshake problem, I ended up returning the unit. The issue is the HDCP handshake between the Panny and Dennon. It is a known problem and it looks like neither Panny or Dennon has address the issue.

Since then, I have bought a different upconverting DVD player and it is working just fine (including a 2x1 switch in the loop). Aside from 8-bit vs 12-bit color space, there is no difference between HDMI and DVI, in terms of video signal. HDMI does carry audio as well so that a single connection can be used for digital audio and video transmission. As for the 12-bit color space, there is no material being encoded with 12-bit color today.

Try cycling the monitor side several times (it needs more time to sync than the amount of time Panny gives to establish handshake - times out, which gives you no signal message). My recollection was that it usually took seven to ten tries to get it sync up between the 1910 and my Panny PDP (commercial model).

Good luck. In my case, I gave up and got something else....

BreakPoint

08-13-05, 07:39 PM

Picked up a 1920 today at Tweeter. I can't connect HDMI until I buy a new HDTV soon. For now I am looking at 420p component out, up converted and displayed on a 19" Samsung LCD (a p193+) PC display at 1280 x 1024p. I am very pleased with what I see so far. Here are some preliminary results of some compatibility test I ran.

+R DL - 3 out of 4 played perfect. The one that did not play locked up the machine when the top menu was selected forcing a pull the plug reset. All 4 were same Verbatim media recorded on same Sony burner. However the one that did not play was recorded differently. The bad one used Nero recode (record whole disk with menus, no compression). The other 3 were an Nero ISO file record. The bad DL DVD does play back fine on 2 different DVD players on my PC (a Sony and a Plextor). In the future I will avoid using Nero recode for DL burning since this seems to be the problem.

+R - I tried about 6, all played perfect. Some were burned on a PC and some on a Philips 935 DVDR

+RW - I tried 3, all played perfectly

-R - Tried 2, played perfect

-RW - I didn't have any available.

DVD-Audio - Tried 2. Played perfectly. Sound was outstanding.

One nice feature is the display info during play. There is an option to display a bar at the top of the screen that shows the video bit rate and which layer you are currently on L0 or L1.

AlieniceT

08-13-05, 07:51 PM

I have my Denon 1920 hooked up to a Panny PDP (TH-42PD25U) via HDMI wilth no handshake problems whatsoever. Out of the box, they had no communication trouble, and I have done several A/B comparisons vs. the Panny S97 requiring HDMI cable swapping.

The HDMI light on the 1920 lights up so it seems it is communicating with the display. If I unplug either end, the HDMI light goes out. If I turn off the 1920, the input message (HDMI DVD) shows up on the display.
BTW Todd,
If one end of the HDMI connection is unplugged, you should get a blinking HDMI light - it should never go out completely unless HDMI is turned off or the unit is off.

I tried a known bad HDMI cable (video signal drops out after a while) that I own on the Denon, and the HDMI light remained lit (not even a blink) even after I lost the video signal. The light is not a guarantee that your connection is secured. Where did you get your HDMI cable?

Not having another HDMI cable or component to troubleshoot the HDMI connect problem makes it a little difficult. :(

jonnyozero3

08-13-05, 10:15 PM

AlieniceT

08-13-05, 10:53 PM

This is interesting - has anyone tried powering off the 1920 with the "off" button on the remote? When I do so, the unit powers off, but then refuses to power on either by the front switch or the remote button. Very odd. I've had it happen twice in a row. I'm not sure why it would do that. I was only able to power the unit back up by unplugging and replugging it back in. Hmmm....
I've not had occasion to power the 1920 on or off via the front panel controls so far. Every power on/off I've cycled through has been with the remote, and no problems so far. I guess I've been lucky, as toddbarry has had HDMI connection issues and now you are having strange behavior with the discrete power off function through the remote. I hope Denon quality control is not going to be a concern with this model.
how is the video performance of the 1920 thru component output to a CRT rear projection monitor? my Toshiba 50HX81 has no digital video input so i'm curious about the component video quality.
HD,
Component out performance of the 1920 is good, but no better. Not very close to the HDMI in quality. Don't give up your RP82 yet, as the biggest change the 1920 can offer over the RP82 is SACD playback and a sharp picture over HDMI, which you do not have. As I've stated previously, the 1920's picture over HDMI using YPbPr colorspace setting is very detailed with less MB than when using RGB colorspace. The Denon is in between the Panny S97 and the Oppo as far as MB is concerned. A little more noticeable than the Panny, but a lot less than the Oppo on displays that reveal the artifact.

Raistlin_HT

08-13-05, 11:00 PM

AlieniceT,

Thank you for your informative responses!

AlieniceT

08-14-05, 04:14 PM

This is interesting - has anyone tried powering off the 1920 with the "off" button on the remote? When I do so, the unit powers off, but then refuses to power on either by the front switch or the remote button. Very odd. I've had it happen twice in a row. I'm not sure why it would do that. I was only able to power the unit back up by unplugging and replugging it back in. Hmmm....

This finally happened with my unit today. Could not power it up via remote or front panel, even though unit clearly had power as standby light was lit. Had to unplug it from my line conditioner, after which it powered up on first try with the remote. It showed me that the 1920's disc memory function remains intact even with an interruption in power, as the disc that was still in the player started up right where I left it at power down last night.

jonnyozero3, did your 1920 have a disc inside of it when you first had it refuse to power on for you? I ask because in my case this was the first time I had turned the player off from the resume state. I'm curious as to whether the problem only occurs when a disc is stopped, and then the unit powered down while in resume mode.

toddbarry

08-14-05, 04:31 PM

AlieniceT / mgkg3:

Thanks for your comments. Yes, I incorrectly said that the light went off when disconnecting the HDMI cable. I checked with my dad (who was watching the DVD player when I was behind the plasma) and he said it was blinking when disconnected.

He is going to take the DVD-1920 and the HDMI cable into the dealer on Tuesday and see what happens when it is hooked up to another set. It may be the cable - it was purchased from stsi.com - but since the front-panel S-Video input on the plasma is defective, I am not ruling out any part of the chain yet. I'll let you know what he finds out...

-Todd

HDntheCity

08-14-05, 04:46 PM

I've not had occasion to power the 1920 on or off via the front panel controls so far. Every power on/off I've cycled through has been with the remote, and no problems so far. I guess I've been lucky, as toddbarry has had HDMI connection issues and now you are having strange behavior with the discrete power off function through the remote. I hope Denon quality control is not going to be a concern with this model.

HD,
Component out performance of the 1920 is good, but no better. Not very close to the HDMI in quality. Don't give up your RP82 yet, as the biggest change the 1920 can offer over the RP82 is SACD playback and a sharp picture over HDMI, which you do not have. As I've stated previously, the 1920's picture over HDMI using YPbPr colorspace setting is very detailed with less MB than when using RGB colorspace. The Denon is in between the Panny S97 and the Oppo as far as MB is concerned. A little more noticeable than the Panny, but a lot less than the Oppo on displays that reveal the artifact.

thanks for another helpful response AlieniceT!!!

from prior posts i suspected that component video performance has peaked & Denon and other manu. are putting most of their efforts into refining HDMI(at least this is my guess). FYI even if i purchase the 1920 my RP82 isn't going anywhere!!-i came across it by pure luck 18 mos. ago i'm VERY happy to have it! i've been eyeing the 1920 for SACD(glad to hear its very good) & to eventually pair it with whatever HDMI-capable display i choose for an upgrade in a few(2?) years. i may even be extravagent & use the 1920 for music & the RP82 for movies until upgrade time!! for now tho i'll wait to decide on anything. again thanks for the (excellent) test results!!!!

jim

AlieniceT

08-14-05, 05:10 PM

Problem with powering off from RESUME with Denon DVD-1920

I have discovered that the problem that jonnyozero3 first reported yesterday is a reproducable flaw in the Denon 1920. When a disc is stopped during play, the unit will go into RESUME mode. This is obviously a common feature on most DVD players. However, on the 1920, if you should decide to turn the player off while it is in RESUME mode using the discrete POWER OFF button on the remote, the player will not power up again without removing AC power to the unit (plug - unplug). This is reproducable 100% and applies to DVD's and CD's.

This only occurs when the remote is used to power off the Denon - if the standby/power button on the front panel is used to turn off the 1920 from RESUME mode, the player will power back on without issues from either the front panel button or the remote power-on button.

I would imagine that Denon will be hearing about this problem shortly, hopefully followed by a firmware fix thereafter.

HDntheCity

08-14-05, 05:15 PM

another reason to wait & see!!!

jim

jonnyozero3

08-14-05, 06:10 PM

Yup - as AlieniceT said, it happens with a disc is stopped in the "resume" mode and using the discrete power off button on the remote, the units powers down but ceases to respond. Personally, it's not a deal breaker for me, but it's a little annoying.

Firmware Fix List:
1) Fix Discrete power off while in Resume mode bug.
2) Less MB as always

AlieniceT

08-14-05, 06:31 PM

Mark Ducati

08-14-05, 06:41 PM

Who's got the best price on the 1920 now?

I could have sworn I saw the 1920 for sale somewhere on the net for $210 bucks... but after searching for the last week, I now believe it was the 1910 I saw...

Crutchfield has the 1920 for $350... anybody find a better price? Free shipping?

M.

AlieniceT

08-14-05, 07:01 PM

Mark Ducati

08-14-05, 07:07 PM

Thanks Alien, I just scored one for $325 delivered :)

jonnyozero3

08-14-05, 07:10 PM

That's only $4 worse (inc tax) than I did locally at Nebraska Furniture Mart :) Good job (for both of us).

tylerb2002

08-15-05, 12:27 PM

Little update...
After reading the manual (oops!) I discovered that the delay settings for all speakers are based on your settings for the front L/R channels, so you will need to input those first. In other words, if you set your fronts to 15', your options for center will be 15' and down, and your options for rears will be 15', 10', and 5'. It's still frustrating that I can't set my center to 17', which is closer to where it is in fact.

UUronl, To answer your question, I haven't used a calibration disc. Like you mentioned, my problem is in fact the delay of the front/center channels relative to each other. My center channel is in a recessed cabinet, about 2' back from the front L/R. The problem is that the Denon won't let you set the center further back from the front. If I get a chance, I will check out the Chesky disc after my wallet recovers from the DVD/HDTV purchase.

I haven't had any problems with the power not coming back on when using the resume function. Sounds like a pretty common defect, though, if there are 2 cases already on this board.

Enjoy,

--tb

AlieniceT

08-15-05, 12:55 PM

I haven't had any problems with the power not coming back on when using the resume function. Sounds like a pretty common defect, though, if there are 2 cases already on this board.
tylerb2002-
Turn off the player using the power off button on the remote while in the resume mode. There is no problem with turning off the player from resume using the button on the front panel.

I would be surprised if you did not see this happen on your unit as it is 100% reproducable on my player and apparently, on jonnyozero3's model as well.

jonnyozero3

08-15-05, 05:00 PM

AlieniceT

08-15-05, 08:14 PM

Yup - it is reproduceable on my unit, and I just figured out a twist.: It only occurs when my HDMI cable is plugged into the player.

I was just playing a CD while reading your post - I wanted to triple check it was still happening, so I stopped the CD, (left it in resume) and then powered down the unit as before using the descrete "off" button on the remote. Much to my surprise it powered back up without a problem using both the front panel power button and the remote.

So I looked to see what was different - lo and behold my HDMI cable was plugged into my HD/DVR instead of the 1920. AH HA! I plugged it back into the 1920 and VOILA! Back to hard lock requiring a hard power off by unplugging the unit.

Very interesting. Could you verify if this happens for your as well AlieniceT?

Just checked out your theory, jonnyozero3, and you are correct. I took it one step further, by leaving the HDMI cable connected, but turning the connection off via the front panel. I then stopped a disc in play, and used the power off on the remote to turn the player off. When I turned it back on using the remote, it came on without a hitch.

So, the machine lock requiring the unplugging of the unit to reset occurs 100% of the time - when the machine is powered down from RESUME mode using the discrete power off button on the remote PROVIDED THAT HDMI IS CONNECTED AND ACTIVE.

Well, that should give Denon tech support a good starting point to locate the cause of the problem and release a fix. :)

jonnyozero3

08-16-05, 12:21 AM

Good job, very thorough. I think we should get paid for this :)

Then I could quit my job to evaluate dvd players! hah. I need to do more watching and listening to see which one I want to keep - if any - out of the S97/1920 pair sitting on my rack. I have a week before I get charged restocking at Vanns. I'll make sure to post more impressions as I think of them.

rr6966

08-16-05, 09:00 AM

Well, I picked up one of these DVD players on the way home from work yesterday, I was interested in a DVD player with decent sound that could play both DVD-Audio & SACD. I currently have a s97 but I wanted to try this new unit but in reality was seriously considering an 2910 from Denon. I other words I was not expecting much out of the 1920. I was wrong, I really like this unit. The sound quality, as said before, is very good, I have it hooked up to a Denon 3803 receiver. I listened to DVD-Audio discs as well as CD's and the sound was very good, better than the s97. The picture quality of this unit surprised me, because I like it better than the Panasonic, I'm shocked! I calibrated the unit using my Avia disc, and have the unit hooked (HDMI to DVI) up to a Sony 34" crt TV (sorry, no rear or front projectors for me, my room is too small). The picture quality seemed just as detailed as the Panasonic s97, but I have less noise. The color also seems a little better, but again I do not have a large screen that blows everything up but my viewing distance is close 6-7' away. I do not have MB issues, never have had this issue, so I'm lucky. I will continue to play around with this unit today, but as I said earlier I was not expecting much but was pleasantly surprised! As far as the power up problem mentioned earlier, I have not been able to reproduce this problem. I tried 6-7 times to power down from the remote from resume mode, and never had an issue powering up. I will try some more times, I may be missing something. I hope this review helps some people, and would encourage some people to give this unit a try. I've used a few cheap Denons the 910, 555 & 1710, and was really not impressed, this one I think is a keeper.

shuttermaker

08-16-05, 10:49 AM

I have my 1920 connected to my Samsung DLP HDMI to DVI. When I stop a DVD and then power off the unit with the remote, it will not power back up with the remote. It will also not power up with the on/off button on the front of the unit.

After disconnecting the power source then reconnecting, power up options returned.

If and when firmware updates are issued, will they be posted on the Denon website? Then you would have to download them and burn them to a CD/DVD then insert that DVD into the player?

Am I correct in this assumption?

dvdchance

08-16-05, 10:58 AM

shuttermaker

08-16-05, 11:02 AM

shutter,

not sure how denon will handle fw updates on the 1920.

I know the higher-line models, 2910, 3910, etc can get updates via website.

When the fw was updated on the 1910, I had to request a disc from denon.

Was the fw update you received for the 1910 a rather large update?

I cant imagine that it would be very cost effective or public friendly for buyers to have to request the update thru snail mail.

dvdchance

08-16-05, 11:43 AM

Was the fw update you received for the 1910 a rather large update?

I cant imagine that it would be very cost effective or public friendly for buyers to have to request the update thru snail mail.

I honestly don't remember what size the fw file was, this was a while ago.

tylerb2002

08-16-05, 12:13 PM

bigfan9999

08-16-05, 02:06 PM

rr6966: I have the same TV (i think it's the 34xbr910). Have you run the 1920 though both component and HDMI to DVI? (my Sony has DVI only, bought it before they added HDMI) Any difference? In addition to the decision on the specific player, I'm also trying to determine if upconverting makes a difference on this TV. Also - have you compared any other players on your TV? In addition to the 1920, I'm considering the 2910 and 2900 (latter would likely have to be used or refurb, neither of which I'm crazy about).

toddbarry

08-16-05, 02:25 PM

AlieniceT and Jonnyozero3,

It might be that I can't reproduce this problem because I'm not using HDMI (yet). When my Sharp Aquos comes in on Thursday :D I will let you know what I find.

enjoy,

--tb

My dad's experience has been that the power off/on problem only occurs when the HDMI output is active on the 1920.

rr6966

08-16-05, 07:27 PM

bigfan9999 ,

I haven't tried component yet. I have tried multiple DVD players on this TV ( Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, Samsung, & Denon), and out of these, a Samsung 841 (latest firmware), Panasonic s97, and now Denon 1920 all scaled or upconverted from DVI or HDMI. I believe you can tell the difference using the digital connection and scaling the video through the digital connection. The difference is minor but it is there. Some DVD players look better at 720p ( the 1920 does ), and some look better at 1080i. Generally, the 1080i provides a tiny bit more detail on this TV. A big factor for me is the quality of DVD (film transfer) that you are watching. If the movie has a lot of film noise, this will be more evident as well. A clean video transfer like Lord of the Rings will yield an awesome picture. I would recommend the 1920, 2910, and s97 for this tv. Right now, I am happy with the 1920 and I will keep it. P.S. I was able to recreate the problem with powering off from RESUME with Denon DVD-1920. It is not a problem enough to return this unit for me. I haven't found a perfect player yet, they all seemed to need some sort of firmware update.

keithsimp

08-16-05, 10:21 PM

I've also experienced the power off issue, but I found there are a couple of work arounds.
1) After pressing Stop, the player goes into Resume mode. If you press Stop again then the player is no longer in Resume mode and you can turn off player and turn back on, no problems. The disc, will of course start over at the beginning.
2) Instead of pressing Stop on the player before turning off, press the Pause button. You can then turn off the player and turn it back on again without issues. The disc will pickup from where you paused.
Someone else can verify if they want. This is no big deal for me. I'll wait to see what Denon says. For me, this player is a keeper. :)

jonnyozero3

08-16-05, 11:10 PM

That's interesting that Pause will work through a power off just as well as a Stop/Resume. Neat.

Don't get me wrong - if I don't keep the player it won't be because of a silly issue like this. This is small potatoes compared to image quality and such :)

keithsimp

08-17-05, 12:23 AM

This player is perfect for my Mits 52725, in the family room. This is not my primary movie viewing setup, so it was the right price. It does have a great picture via the HDMI and sound is good enough for what I'm using it for. Hopefully I'll sit down and do some serious calibrating this weekend. I did the basics with Avia Pro, so I need to do the grey scale this weekend with the Optic One.
I'll report on the results once I finish.

shuttermaker

08-17-05, 11:31 AM

Has anyone had the opportunity to watch Sin City with the 1920 ?

AlieniceT

08-17-05, 12:48 PM

Has anyone had the opportunity to watch Sin City with the 1920 ?

I've got it planned for tonight. Looking forward to comparing PQ with the panny S97. I'm only keeping one of them. :)

shuttermaker

08-17-05, 02:01 PM

I watched the first 30 minutes of it. Maybe you can help me explain the things I was seeing.

1. Some of the blacks appeared as faded green. I was able to reduce them quite a bit by turning the color settings on my Sammy 4663 down some.

2. While watching, if i dart my eyes back and forth from left to right I think I saw rainbow effect for the first time. It was extreme streaks of red and green. If i wasn't trying to make the effect happen...it didn't.

NoThru22

08-17-05, 02:13 PM

If you want to know for sure what rainbows look like wave your hand in front of the projector while its running. Then you can compare that to what you saw.

shuttermaker

08-17-05, 02:28 PM

Don't think it was rainbow, I played snippets of 3 other movies and did not see the same effect.

Maybe it was something specific to this particular movie and the way it was produced. Hopefully AlieniceT can report on his findings tonight. Then again, maybe its limited to DLP sets.

jonnyozero3

08-17-05, 07:08 PM

Rainbows are only found on DLP sets...

AlieniceT

08-18-05, 12:53 PM

Sin City DVD PQ impressions

Watched Sin City on the Denon 1920 last night. Display was a Panasonic TH-42PD25U plasma. PQ was exceptional, although that was somewhat expected since SC was a largely digital production. Tons of detail revealed on the 1920 despite the fact that SC is a literally dark film. Blacks were deep and clean on the plasma, which is good news for the 1920. No macroblocking observed. Colors, when utilized in the film, were vivid and nicely saturated. Additionally, the video transfer of this film is not saddled with excessive edge enhancement, which is always a possibility and may have made for difficult viewing. I think the 1920 presented the film beautifully, and continues to impress.

The DTS audio was outstanding. Effective use of the rear surrounds, but not overblown. The disc itself is pretty sparse, so I will hold out for the Special Edition before buying. A 1080p Blu-Ray release would be absolutely amazing. :cool:

Did not notice any rainbow effects from the DVD image on my plasma. I have a HD CRT display I will check out with SC and see how it looks. No unusual color shifts or artifacts either, only the intended color accents intentionally blended with the otherwise stark B&W landscape.

If I were a sales associate at an AV dealership, this title on a well calibrated display would sell a lot of Denon 1920's. Unfortunately it is a hard-R rated film, so that is not likely.

I plan to compare the DVD on the 1920 to the Pio 59AVi and Panny S97 tonight.

rr6966

08-18-05, 02:22 PM

keithsimp ,

Tried your method :

[I]I've also experienced the power off issue, but I found there are a couple of work arounds.
1) After pressing Stop, the player goes into Resume mode. If you press Stop again then the player is no longer in Resume mode and you can turn off player and turn back on, no problems. The disc, will of course start over at the beginning.
2) Instead of pressing Stop on the player before turning off, press the Pause button. You can then turn off the player and turn it back on again without issues. The disc will pickup from where you paused.
Someone else can verify if they want. This is no big deal for me. I'll wait to see what Denon says. For me, this player is a keeper.

It works great! Thanks!

jonnyozero3

08-18-05, 07:09 PM

Did not notice any rainbow effects from the DVD image on my plasma. I have a HD CRT display I will check out with SC and see how it looks. No unusual color shifts or artifacts either, only the intended color accents intentionally blended with the otherwise stark B&W landscape.

Forgive me if I missed something, but I want to clarify - are we discussing Rainbow Effect (RBE) inherent in DLP technology, or some other white/color artifact unrelated to RBE that may be in the Sin City DVD transfer?

Shuttermaker - I see you have a rear projection DLP set correct?

shuttermaker

08-18-05, 08:00 PM

Forgive me if I missed something, but I want to clarify - are we discussing Rainbow Effect (RBE) inherent in DLP technology, or some other white/color artifact unrelated to RBE that may be in the Sin City DVD transfer?

Shuttermaker - I see you have a rear projection DLP set correct?

Yes, I have a Sammy 4663. The artifact I saw while watching Sin City is unlike anything I've experienced since buying the Sammy. Since I've never seen RBE while watching any other movie on it, I didn't know if thats what I was actually seeing.

To try and explain what I saw, its kinda like when red or green is overdriven or bleeding thru its boundaries. It only happens when I dart my eyes left to right in quick secession.

Chris_006

08-18-05, 08:07 PM

That's RBE for sure.

tylerb2002

08-19-05, 09:45 AM

My dad's experience has been that the power off/on problem only occurs when the HDMI output is active on the 1920.

I still have no problems even with HDMI active. I stopped the movie and turned it off with the remote, and it came back on with no problems whatsoever. I confirmed on the TV that the 720P signal is being transfered by HDMI. I guess I got lucky with the 1920, which would make twice since my refurbished Aquos works without a hitch :D , despite being beat up pretty badly by UPS. Picture quality from the 1920 through HDMI is outstanding, though I haven't had much time to look at it and I'm comparing it to my old SD CRT. I know what I'm going to be doing this weekend :cool:

Enjoy,

--tb

QuiGonFishing

08-20-05, 01:36 AM

Hi All,

Brand new here and I was very happy to see people talking about the 1920 (which I just bought for my 60" Hitachi HD RPLCD. But...

Although I have the connection through the HDMI interface, whether I choose 480, 720, or 1080i, the picture seems about the same and no better than my ancient Panasonic A110 and nowhere near the HD quality I'm getting from my true HD channels (I expected it to at least be in the ballpark).

I recorded Troy off of HBO-HD as a control subject for comparison to the DVD version on the Denon. The DVD picture is as comparable to the HBO-HD as VHS is to DVD.

Now I know that I'm not going to get a picture as crisp and perfect as the HD version, but I've heard so much good stuff about the PQ on Denon in general and on this model in particular regarding the upconversion (discounting the macroblocking issue) that I was pretty dissappointed.

Any suggestions as to where I might be going wrong..?

Chris_006

08-20-05, 02:06 AM

Hard to say, really. To expect anything anywhere near HD quality from DVD's is a little too much, I would expect. The Denon DVD-1920 is heard to be a fantastic player, and in fact, I just ordered mine, but I really wouldn't expect a burned copy of a SD program to look HD. There's a lot of miracles being performed with these players, but they don't do the impossible.

I can't explain why all of the desired outputs look the same on your TV... does it display 480p, 720p, 1080i, etc, etc, somewhere on the screen when you select? And not to sound offensive at all, but would your eyes just not be keen enough to tell the benefit/defecit of upconversion?

BillP

08-20-05, 08:27 AM

NoThru22

08-20-05, 10:54 AM

A DVD should not look like VHS when compared to HD. The HD should just be higher res and have slightly better colors. And how can burned DVDs look worse? My burned DVDs are bit for bit copies. Like I just said, this isn't VHS.

tempest714

08-20-05, 12:05 PM

I found one of these on sale at a Sound Advice yesterday and have been basically blown away by its performance. The audio has a lot more detail on my system than the LG I was trying and returned.

The default HDMI Select setting for the unit is YCbCr, but it amplifies reds way too much on my HDTV (model listed in signature). RGB produces a much more natural picture, but my question is: should YCbCr look good on my TV or is that setting just for non-CRT TVs?

I know I should just go with what works, by I'm getting a tech in to calibrate this TV within the next couple weeks and want to know as much as I can about this stuff. If YCbCr should be the better choice, then it's another thing on the list of TV issues that should be addressed.

Chris_006

08-20-05, 01:32 PM

It will vary on your TV. Some prefer the look and performance of HDMI, some prefer component.

AlieniceT

08-20-05, 02:45 PM

The default HDMI Select setting for the unit is YCbCr, but it amplifies reds way too much on my HDTV (model listed in signature). RGB produces a much more natural picture, but my question is: should YCbCr look good on my TV or is that setting just for non-CRT TVs?

I know I should just go with what works, by I'm getting a tech in to calibrate this TV within the next couple weeks and want to know as much as I can about this stuff. If YCbCr should be the better choice, then it's another thing on the list of TV issues that should be addressed.

YCbCr is the recommended setting whenever your display allows for it. Certain display types (LCD / DLP for example) with DVI inputs sometimes will not allow for YCbCr selection, forcing you to use RGB colorspace over HDMI. To be fair, you really should hold off on doing a thorough comparison between the two HDMI settings until your display is calibrated.

In my case, the YCbCr HDMI setting produces less macroblocking on the 1920 than does the RGB setting. However, you will have to find out what works best in your setup.

tempest714

08-20-05, 04:29 PM

Thanks guys for your comments! Since this TV is very new and still under a Panasonic warranty, I'm having one of their techs come out first to do some geometric adjustments and I'll at least ask about the 'red issue' and see what they say. Depending on results and if said tech seems to have some decent knowledge, I may still get an ISF tech out here. One thing at a time. I'm not suffering...RGB still looks great through this player. :cool:

eaglengraver

08-21-05, 06:43 PM

Sin City DVD PQ impressions

I plan to compare the DVD on the 1920 to the Pio 59AVi and Panny S97 tonight.

How did this comparison go? Need a player with HDMI 1.1 for my brand new Pioneer Elite 74TXVi. Hear people are having problems with Pio 59avi with this receiver because PIo 59avi is HDMI 1.0. Looking to scoop the Denon 1920 with HDMI 1.1 for now but want to know how much worse picture will be compared to what my 59avi did on my old reciever.

Thanks!

nmo

08-21-05, 09:33 PM

Any idea how the 1920 compares to the Sony 975?

tylerb2002

08-22-05, 09:05 AM

Over the weekend, I experienced the on/off problem. :confused: I can't remember exactly what I did before I turned it off Friday night, but on Saturday it wouldn't turn on until I unplugged it and plugged it back in. I have been using the pause fix provided by Keithsimp--Thanks Keith!

As for HDMI vs. Component, I am sure that it varies depending on how well (and if) your TV upconverts (I used a Sharp Aquos LC37g4u for my comparison). That said, I A/B compared the two inputs using a paused scene from Gladiator, right at the end where it shows the city of ancient Athens under a sunset before the credits begin. I also played a few seconds of the film on each input, but mainly focused on the paused scene. HDMI at 720P had slightly better color (probably due to settings on the TV) and much better image detail and clarity. In general, HDMI just looked more pleasing to the eye (again probably because I used THX optimizer to set up the TV using HDMI input and not the component--and settings are unique to each input). For this test I was sitting pretty close to the LCD, but in the future I will test from the couch, too :)

I will do more testing in the future with various scenes after setting up component using THX and Avia (next in the queue at Blockbuster.com)

--tb

tylerb2002

08-22-05, 09:16 AM

Has anyone had a chance to look at picture cds on this player? I was wondering how the player would output these. If I create a disc of jpegs at ____x 768 pixels (TV res is 1366x768), will it output these to the TV at their full resolution?

Thanks,

--tb

AlieniceT

08-22-05, 12:16 PM

How did this comparison go? Need a player with HDMI 1.1 for my brand new Pioneer Elite 74TXVi. Hear people are having problems with Pio 59avi with this receiver because PIo 59avi is HDMI 1.0. Looking to scoop the Denon 1920 with HDMI 1.1 for now but want to know how much worse picture will be compared to what my 59avi did on my old reciever.
Thanks!
eaglengraver,
The Denon 1920 is an impressive player at its' price point. It compares favorably with the Panny S97, but I prefer the Panny PQ over the Denon. Both deliver loads of detail over HDMI, with each unit delivering about the same level of macroblocking. But, on my display (Panny 42" plasma) the S97 seems to have a slightly better color balance (perhaps a better color decoder) and to my eyes, better shadow detail. The difference on a well calibrated display is slight, and may actually come down to personal preference. The audio is no contest. The Denon is clearly better.

The Pio 59AVi is better than either the Denon 1920 or the Panny S97, IMHO. The picture is smoother, more film-like, and generates less artifacts than the other two players. Audio performance wins over both models, as well. That's why the 59AVi is priced significantly higher.

BTW, why can't you run audio from a 59AVi to a 74TXVi via I-link? That connection will handle all the audio from the 59AVi (including SACD) and possibly allow for digital bass management in the receiver, no?

shuttermaker

08-22-05, 12:42 PM

l80241

08-22-05, 12:47 PM

I jumped on the bandwagon last night. I have been looking for a good player to mate to my Infocus 5700 DLP projector (1024 x576). I was replacing an old panasonic interlaced unit and was having trouble finding a player with a better picture.

I Tried Sony 875 and Pioneer elite 45A. Neither even matched the old combination whether I used interlaced or progressive.

Based on last nights viewing, it definitely is better in 480i than the old player. Using 480P It looked just as good but the color seemed to be way off and I didn't have the energy to calibrate it.

It seems like a possible waste to have upconversion and not try it out, but it could get expensive for a 25ft cable, hdmi -> dvi converter and a dvi -> adapter. I'm looking for your bets guesses on whether it could provide significant picture improvement over the very good interlace picture i'm already seeing.

I'm no video expert as this is only my second dvd player and my first progressive one. I've used Avia to calibrate, but don't think I ever got it quite right. I do however appreciate a nice picture.

Thanks

AlieniceT

08-22-05, 03:12 PM

If I run HDMI out from the 1920 to DVI in on my Sammy 4663, will I be losing video quality?

I have 1 HDMI input and 1 DVI input. I currently have the cable STB (SA 8300) HDMI to HDMI
The 1920 is set up with HDMI out to DVI in on my TV.

I believe the 1920 forces you to use RGB colorspace over its' HDMI out when feeding into a DVI input. The 1920 from my experience generates more macroblocking using RGB instead of YCbCr colorspace over HDMI. It may be even more dramatic when you reduce the signal output to the display from 10-bit (FLI-2301 over HDMI) to 8-bit (same chipset output to DVI).

Why not test both of your digital sources connected to HDMI and then DVI and let your eyes decide which one gets the HDMI? Do you watch more DVD's than TV?
My guess is the PQ loss from HDMI to DVI could be less noticeable with the STB than with the 1920. But it's just a guess. ;)

bigfan9999

08-23-05, 08:51 AM

Has anyone compared the video and/or audio performance of the 1920 to the 2910? I'm trying to decide if the extra cost is worth it for the 2910.

tempest714

08-23-05, 08:42 PM

I finally got my Avia DVD and a set of THX glasses (just for the hell of it), turned off every color altering setting on the TV, used the YCbCr on the Denon 1920 and used the Avia disc to get things tuned far better than I've ever seen on my setup. I admittedly 'had' a rather warped idea of how to set up a TV/DVD player.

Clearly, as others have observed, the audio output is exceptional!! This one is a keeper...I hope I don't eat those words. :confused:

jjacocks

08-23-05, 11:07 PM

I'm having a similar issue to others in this thread: I can't get an HDMI picture from my DVD-1920 to my 26" Sharp Aquos. I'm using a Philips PXT1000 HDMI cable, and get nothing but a blinking HDMI light on the front of the DVD player, and nothing on the TV.

Unfortuantely, I don't have any other HDMI devices to test with, either.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

shuttermaker

08-23-05, 11:28 PM

bigfan9999

08-24-05, 07:50 AM

tempest714

08-24-05, 08:30 AM

Tempest - what type of input on your Tau are you using to run the YCbCr from the 1920? I'm wondering if it's DVI and the Denon allows YCbCr that way (the only inputs I have are DVI and component). Also wondering if you can notice any difference between RGB and YCbCr on your set (I also have a 34" tube HDTV - Sony XBR910).

Hi bigfan9999,

I'm using an HDMI cable between the 1920 and the Tau. I do notice quite a difference between the RGB and the YCbCr settings. While I haven't finished trying different combinations between the two, I have calibrated my TV's 'standard' and 'cinema' presets with YCbCr output from the 1920 (Avia). I seem to get a more natural picture with YCbCr (once I used Avia) and my brightness setting went from 36 to 43.

Unfortunately, that info doesn't help you at all :confused: Perhaps someone else here will respond.

TheSmisker

08-24-05, 10:35 AM

jjacocks

08-24-05, 06:40 PM

I would start with the advice given in post #69. I believe it was given by AlienIceT

Yes, and indeed, it was good advice. I'm sorry, I should have said that I tried all of those items last night.

Tonight, I'm taking the DVD-1920 back to Tweeter, where I purchased it, along with my HDMI cable. However, they don't have an Aquos TV to test with, so I'm not sure what can be determined.

Does anyone have further suggestions? I might try and buy a second HDMI cable, but, boy are they expensive.

Thanks!

AlieniceT

08-24-05, 07:28 PM

Tonight, I'm taking the DVD-1920 back to Tweeter, where I purchased it, along with my HDMI cable. However, they don't have an Aquos TV to test with, so I'm not sure what can be determined.

Does anyone have further suggestions? I might try and buy a second HDMI cable, but, boy are they expensive.

Thanks!
jjacocks,
Your problem is possibly not a bad cable. A blinking HDMI indicator light on the front panel of the 1920 only signifies that the handshake has been broken or not established in the first place. I hooked up my 1920 with a known bad cable for testing purposes after toddbarry had a problem getting a picture with his HDMI set-up. Initially I got a picture, but when the picture turned into snow before going completely blank (as it always does with this particular cable) the HDMI indicator light did not change to a blinking state. The handshake was still intact, so therefore the Denon saw no problem with the connection. If you have a blinking light on the front panel, then you are not completing the initial handshake between the 1920 and your Aquos TV.

Out of curiousity, does your Aquos have both HDMI and DVI? If it does, you could try to connect the 1920 to your DVI input with a HDMI-to-DVI adapter plug. They are a little less expensive than the cost of a new HDMI cable, and you might be able to return it after using it as a diagnostic tool ;) That could tell you if you have a bad HDMI board on your Aquos and acquit your HDMI cable of any blame as well. If you have managed to get a picture to your display via component or S-video from the 1920, then it comes down to four possibilities: a bad cable, a bad HDMI board on the Denon, a bad HDMI board on the Aquos, or finally incompatibility between Denon's HDMI 1.1 protocol and the HDMI hardware on the Aquos.

Good luck.

jjacocks

08-24-05, 09:30 PM

OK, thank you. I have procured a DVI-HDMI adapter, and will indeed try that solution. I have also acquired a Sony upscanning DVD player, with HDMI output, to try to determine if the HDMI board is bad in my television, or if the problem is compatibility.

I will setup these components in a bit, and reply back to the thread.

Thanks!

jjacocks

08-24-05, 11:38 PM

Well, it appears as if my television is the problem. With an HDMI-DVI adapter, the DVD player works fine.

Odd.

I'll continue this on the Sharp forum. Thanks for the help!

Chris_006

08-25-05, 01:50 AM

It arrives tomorrow! Can't wait!

toddbarry

08-25-05, 02:56 AM

Well, it appears as if my television is the problem. With an HDMI-DVI adapter, the DVD player works fine.

The television is the problem in my case as well. Not only is the front-panel S-Video input defective on the plasma, the HDMI input is completely dead.

My dad took the 1920 and the HDMI cable to the dealer and it worked perfectly. We have it hooked up via component in the meantime.

tylerb2002

08-25-05, 08:20 AM

NoThru22

08-25-05, 08:40 AM

If you get a picture with HDMI, it's as good as it can be. Your 1's and 0's don't show up any differently on a "better" cable.

tempest714

08-25-05, 08:44 AM

Just thought I'd mention that you can get HDMI cables pretty cheap at www.partsexpress.com and www.buy.com. I'm using an AR cable from buy.com (search part # 90140193) May not be the best cable out there, but compared to spending 3-5x as much....it works fine.

Enjoy,

--tb

I got my 2 meter HDMI cable from partsexpress for $17.99. It's a well made cable that fits the HDMI ports better than the one cheaper cable included with a former DVD player I tried and returned. Good quality for very little money. :cool:

Chris_006

08-25-05, 09:02 AM

Got myself a free HDMI from work... think it's a leftover one from one of the Toshiba upconvert. Probably pick up an AR if I like what I see.

WarrenBuffett

08-25-05, 05:11 PM

Planning on doing my first comprehensive review.

Lucked out and ought a brand new (no box) Panasonic RP-91 from Crutchfield which arrived today. Came with full warranty and everything. (Patting myself on the back for the sweet find)

I also picked up a 1920 from B&M BB today as well as I was planning on buying a 2910 but they didn't have any in stock and the guy said that they had a 1920 in the back(I immediately told him to get it for me). I'm planning on doing a couple of things that I've wanted to see compared but haven't.

first my humble setup

Sanyo PLV Z3 Connected to a DVDO Iscan ULtra (DVI-HMDI) - Ceiling Mounted
Greywolf 92" High Gain Screen
Light controlled room (White walls)

1) Compare Directly the RP91's Video DAC's vs the 1920's through component 480i into a DVDO Iscan Ultra to the Z3 via (DVI-HDMI)
NOTE: Planning to upgrade the Scaler but haven't heard back from Jason about the VP30 preorder. (so the Ultra will have to do)

2) If the RP91 Prevails compare that to the 720P from the 1920.
Note: I have always wanted to see (inperson) a direct comparison to upsampled 720P vs 480P

3) Whether I see macroblocking and how frequently on the 1920 (as well as other artifacts)

Each will be calibrated using AVIA to the best of my calibrating skills.

I can't do a very accurate sound test as I am in california and my audio setup is in boston. So i'll stick to the video. Many pictures to follow.

Please give me ideas on what specifically people want compared and i would be more than happy to do so.... Tonight is night 1 of comparison. Planning on doing a multi-night comparison.

nrezaie

08-25-05, 06:12 PM

Chris_006

08-25-05, 09:04 PM

nrezaie

08-25-05, 09:10 PM

That code only works if you use a MasterCard to purchase. I just called and wanted to get a 20$ refund to my card, and he said since I used a Visa, it's not applicable.

DOH!

Time to go play with the 1920!

UPDATE: The code that I have always been using is PA165!!!!! Not PA166. PA166 works, but apparently it has different terms (Mastercard?)..... I posted the wrong one and didn't know there are two different codes!! Maybe PA165 is the Visa code and PA166 is the Mastercard code?

winowicki

08-25-05, 09:41 PM

As I am purchasing a BenQ 7800 that holds a DVI input, I hope to get confirmed that this Denonplayer destined (all things considered) will replace my Denon 2900. That is if it can send
YCbCr via HDMI -> DVI

As far as I know, the DVI standard was for RGB only, since it was essentially a digital variant of the so-called analog VGA connections on computer displays. So if you have either end of the cable being DVI (sender or receiver), it should limit you to RGB with 8 bits only. This might still look very good, since most digital display devices are RGB native anyway, so you are just trusting the DVD player to do the color space conversion. If it does a good job of it, without needing much correction for your display, might be fine. Let us know how it works for you.

Chris_006

08-25-05, 10:00 PM

That PA165 code is indeed for Visa, but it is outdated. The CSR I spoke with said they have an existing code for Visa, but it's only 10$ for anything over 50$ - she went ahead and applied that.

Better than nothing!

tylerb2002

08-26-05, 08:47 AM

For those of you looking to buy the DVD-1920 from Crutchfield:

Here is a 20 dollar off coupon code to bring the price down to 329 shipped.

Code: PA166

Enter it in your shopping cart. The code works for any purchase 100 dollars and above. I've used it several times already.

Nice tip nrezaie! They just gave me a $20 credit! This even works if you bought it a while back (<30 days maybe?).

Enjoy

--tb

bigfan9999

08-26-05, 09:44 AM

As far as I know, the DVI standard was for RGB only, since it was essentially a digital variant of the so-called analog VGA connections on computer displays. So if you have either end of the cable being DVI (sender or receiver), it should limit you to RGB with 8 bits only. This might still look very good, since most digital display devices are RGB native anyway, so you are just trusting the DVD player to do the color space conversion. If it does a good job of it, without needing much correction for your display, might be fine. Let us know how it works for you.

So, does that mean that HDMI to HDMI will produce a better PQ than DVI to DVI or HDMI to DVI? I thought HDMI and DVI were supposedly equivalent quality (and that the only difference was DVI's lack of audio).

Chris_006

08-26-05, 12:03 PM

Having trouble getting the 1920 to transfer DTS to my HTR-5790. Have DTS set to PCM, and my receiver on DTS, Sur. Standard, and with DTS selected in DVD players, there's a no go.

Any ideas?

ekb

08-26-05, 12:10 PM

Having trouble getting the 1920 to transfer DTS to my HTR-5790. Have DTS set to PCM, and my receiver on DTS, Sur. Standard, and with DTS selected in DVD players, there's a no go.

Any ideas?
You need to output bitstream - not PCM.

Ed

cnjvh

08-31-05, 01:12 PM

Ok, I just picked up this player and it looks crystal clear on my Hitachi 51SWX20B. I don't see any macroblocking on this set, however, not having seen the issue before, I wouldn't know specifically what to look for. There's certainly nothing obviously wrong with the picture, it looks incredible :-)

I do have a few questions that weren't clearly answered by that manual (that I could see):

1. My Hitachi accepts 480i/480p/720p/1080i but scales everything to either 540p or 1080i using its own internal scaler. I always use the 1080i setting. Thus, it seems using the scaling functions of the player will not be beneficial in my case as my signal is already being upscaled. The only benefit would be if 1920 has a better scaler than the Hitachi. Can anyone comment on this? I can try it and see, of course, but I'd rather not spend the $50 on a HDMI to DVI converter cable if someone else has already tried it and seen no PQ difference.

2. I'm not sure what the LPCM setting does. The manual states "set this to on when outputting 48KHz (or 44.1KHz)". What is the appropriate use of this setting?

3. The many audio settings are a bit complex. I've been trying to figure out what audio signals are present in which connectors based on media type and configuration. Here's how I THINK it works:

Standard co-ax digital output:
- Always on
- multi-channel if DD/DTS is set to bitstream and source is multi-channel
- 2-channel if DD/DTS is set to PCM or source is 2 channel
- Outputs bitstream or PCM DD, bitstream or PCM DTS, 2 channel redbook audio, multi-channel DVD Audio, MP3, WMA (NO SACD)
- If in PCM mode, multi channel sources are downmixed to 2 channel

HDMI Audio:
- Only active when analog audio is off
- Multi-channel when DD/DTS is set to bitstream AND HDMI audio is set to multi-channel AND source is multi-channel
- 2 channel when DD/DTS is set to PCM OR HDMI audio is set to 2 channel OR source is 2 channel
- Outputs bitstream or PCM DD, bitstream or PCM DTS, 2 channel redbook audio, multichannel DVD Audio, MP3, WMA (NO SACD)
- If in 2 channel mode, multi-channel signals are downmixed to two channels

Analog 5.1 Audio:
- Only active when HDMI audio is off
- multi-channel if Analog Audio is set to multi-channel AND source is multi-channel
- 2 channel if Analog Audio is set to 2 channel OR source is 2 channel
- Outputs SACD, multi-channel DVD Audio, decoded DD, decoded DTS, 2 channel redbook audio, MP3, WMA
- If in 2 channel mode, multi-channel signals are downmixed to two channels

Can anyone confirm if I've got this correct? I just read that back and I now have alot more sympathy for Denon's technical writers :eek:

mczolton

08-31-05, 01:31 PM

1. My Hitachi accepts 480i/480p/720p/1080i but scales everything to either 540p or 1080i using its own internal scaler. I always use the 1080i setting. Thus, it seems using the scaling functions of the player will not be beneficial in my case as my signal is already being upscaled. The only benefit would be if 1920 has a better scaler than the Hitachi. Can anyone comment on this? I can try it and see, of course, but I'd rather not spend the $50 on a HDMI to DVI converter cable if someone else has already tried it and seen no PQ difference.

I have the same display coupled with the Denon 2910. As far as I am concerned, the Denon has the superior scaler. I am willing to bet the 1920 is also superior to the Hitachi's internal scaler.

Mark

zoro

08-31-05, 02:24 PM

Does 1920 do Pal to Ntsc? is it region hackable?

divx? HDMI 1.1?

BreakPoint

08-31-05, 07:15 PM

Does 1920 do Pal to Ntsc? is it region hackable?

divx? HDMI 1.1?

Divx - No

HDMI 1.1 - Yes

The other questions I have no idea.

Jennice

09-01-05, 04:53 AM

Hi everyone - I'm new here, but eagerly following the Denon 1920 chat.
Being fairly new to DVD's I haven't been researching a lot (don't know where to start), but have seen many of you mention the MacroBlock issue. what is it all about, and will it only incluence certain discs/consitions?

Thanks-
Jennice

HDntheCity

09-01-05, 03:08 PM

hi Jennice

i'm far from an expert but i'll try a quick explanation & i'm sure members with more experience will add more & better info later. basicly Macroblocking is a video artifact noticeable as small block-like or tile-like color artifacts. i've never read about it showing up on B/W images(probably because of less info decoded & less compression used-just guessing here). relevent to this thread because the Denon 1910 & 2910 models are prone to this artifact due to the Faroudja 2310 de-interlacing chip they use. debate has been whether or not the new 1920 is better or the same or only slightly better than the older models. so far AlieniceT's extensive review seems to show some improvement but it may be too early for a final word(player has been available less than a month.) audio quality of the new Denon seems first-rate & excelent for the price. also picture quality seems superior with the HDMI output as opposed to component.
as usual there's another complication-some DISPLAYS seem to be more prone than others to showing the MB artifact. from what i've read it can be any format-CRT,plasma,DLP, etc. and no there's no list i know of which lists which are prone & which aren't.
this player(1920) is generating excitement because of its fine audio quality(especially for the price) without seeming to sacrifice video quality too much. if you are interested in DVD-A & SACD playback & have an HDMI-capable display its worth a look. and again anyone with more & better info on the MB artifact chime in.

jim

HDntheCity

09-01-05, 03:19 PM

[QUOTE=cnjvh]

2. I'm not sure what the LPCM setting does. The manual states "set this to on when outputting 48KHz (or 44.1KHz)". What is the appropriate use of this setting?

/QUOTE]

i would think it's for redbook CD's. is this a different setting than PCM?

BTW listening to music is getting mighty complicated-but worth it!!!

jim

tylerb2002

09-01-05, 03:45 PM

Jennice, you have good timing...I was going to post these pictures today.

I was watching Ladder 49 last night and experienced some pretty bad MB during the opening scene in the smokey building. I have my system set up so that I can easily switch between component at 480i (all image processing occurring in TV) and HDMI at 720p (processing in the Denon by Faroudja chip). My TV is a Sharp Aquos 37" LCD (LC37g4u). The pictures attached show (part of) the same paused frame with both inputs (sorry about the size, 800x640 is the max size on avsforum and I would rather crop them than shrink them down. If you want the full size pictures, email me and I'll send them to you)

Before everyone gives up on this player, let me add these thoughts. In my experience, the Faroudja chip provides a phenomenal picture 99.5% of the time, and I still use hdmi 720p for all of my viewing--the upconverted picture is loads better than component 99.5% of the time. I still think that the Denon is an excellent player for the money, and blame a lot of this on the DVD compression on this particular movie. You can't tell from the pictures, but with the scene playing, the component feed looked like crap, too. But this was one poor-looking 5-minute scene compared to probably over 100 hours of content that looked amazing on the 1920. I just wanted to post this to let the fence-sitters know that the macroblocking issue is still a problem, but only on rare occasions.

Enjoy,

--tb

tylerb2002

09-01-05, 03:46 PM

I guess it lost my attachments somewhere along the way. Here are the pics

--tb

cnjvh

09-01-05, 04:02 PM

HDntheCity

09-01-05, 04:03 PM

hey great job tyler!! to me it looks like the MB is SLIGHTLY worse in the HDMI image(staircase frame & post) but its a subtle difference. and you reminded of something i should have mentioned in my post to Jennice-MB can vary in severity overall AND some DVD's are worse for MB than others-tho a first rate player can minimize it. i'm lucky cuz my RP82 seems to have little or no sign of MB issues-even TRUE LIES doesn't look to bad.

jim

HDntheCity

09-01-05, 04:10 PM

Thanks for the reply. I've done a little more research and my current understanding is that this setting is for the coax dgital out. Apparently this output is not allowed to pass copy protected high-res material. If you want to listen to a copy protected high-res disk utililizing this output, you can engage LPCM to dumb down the signal to 44.1 and allow playback.

You're right, this is insanely complicated sometimes!!

hmm-i didn't even think about copy-protection. now we have THAT to deal with for music? there are times i almost miss my old(REALLY old actually) dorm-room stereo with it's manual Technics turntable-just put the tonearm down & rock on!!! LOL!!!!

jim

Matt_Smi

09-01-05, 06:38 PM

But this was one poor-looking 5-minute scene compared to probably over 100 hours of content that looked amazing on the 1920. I just wanted to post this to let the fence-sitters know that the macroblocking issue is still a problem, but only on rare occasions.

I think this is a very good point, to rule out a player that looks amazing 99% percent of the time for a flaw that may only effect certain movies at certian senes is just not fair IMO.

tempest714

09-01-05, 07:45 PM

I must agree with the concept that accuracy will reveal bad things and my past insistence that a 'good DVD player' must make everything look perfect is delusional at best. Some DVDs out there are simply LQ and as a friend of mine said, “You can’t polish a turd”.

This unit continues to impress and please me…the charm is not wearing off.

AlieniceT

09-01-05, 08:06 PM

I've been comparing the 1920 with the Oppo DV971H over the past few days, and the Denon has consistently displayed the superior image. The Oppo puts out a very nice image at 720p, but not so special at 1080i. Many are having sync or flicker issues with it at that setting. The Denon, however, matches the Oppo at 720p and blows it away at 1080i. On a direct view CRT (Sony KD-34XBR960), the Denon at 1080i is surprisingly close to matching the pq on my JVC HM-DH5U D-VHS, which is legit 1080i @ 28.2Mbps for D-Theatre movies.

If you are looking for an upscaling player, but unsure which resolution you will be running to your display, the Denon delivers the goods at either 720p or 1080i. Which means that if you should upgrade to a new display after you get the 1920, there will be no nasty surprises. :)

Rolando A

09-01-05, 11:56 PM

Chris_006

09-02-05, 12:51 AM

I have a Mitsu WD-52527 LCD, and I actually prefer the 480p image via HDMI over 720p.

HDntheCity

09-02-05, 04:58 PM

I think this is a very good point, to rule out a player that looks amazing 99% percent of the time for a flaw that may only effect certain movies at certian senes is just not fair IMO.

couldn't agree more. this player is looking better & better(especially for the price.)

jim

Jennice

09-03-05, 07:09 AM

TylerB2002,

Thanks for posting the pics. However, I don't know if I got wiser or if I'm just in over my head! :o
I can't see the problem, but I don't know what to look for - or expect - either. The good side is that I think this player should be fine for me. The downside is that I don't know whether to laugh or cry for feeling kinda' dumb not to see any problem. :rolleyes:

Anyway... my "reference" (the only player I've had so far) is one of these cheap Denver DVD players that cost next-to-nothing in the local supermarket. I suppose anything will be an improvement, although this player is too "stupid" to care about region codes or anything else. It just plays what you feed it. *L*

It is (as will the new player be) connected to a TV and a Sanyo PLV-Z2 projector. The projector is reached via 18 meters (which converts to about 54 feet I think) of coax cable, being fed a composite (not component) signal. Ordinary antenna cable was the best signal cable I could get, after comparisons with a commercial S-video cable. The S-video cable made two ghost images slightly off-set from the original, while the antenna cable had no ghost images (cable reflections to blame, I think) at all. I know it's not the best conditions imaginable, but it'll have to do for now. The Z-2 projector has a DVI input, but the standard doesn't support that long digital cables, and as I understand it'll only be 8-bit anyway. Would component be possible at these distances, and would it be a major improvement? (the cheap player I have now doesn't have component out.)

Oh, boy... The more I dig, the more lost I feel. Sorry if I'm drifting slightly off-topic, but I'm just feeling so confused now... :eek:

Hoping for patience -
Jennice

AlieniceT

09-03-05, 03:31 PM

how is the layer switch on this unit?

sorry for the "banal" question but all else sounds to work well so was curious how this unit handles this.

while I'm at it how id th FF and Rew? multiple speeds?

Your answers are in my review post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6013206&&#post6013206

zoro

09-03-05, 04:32 PM

I am still waiting if this player does Pal to Ntsc? and can be made Region Free?

as European version, does and also plays DIVX?

Terricola

09-03-05, 05:07 PM

I just purchased the Denon 1920 DVD player to replace my old Sony DVD player and I found a really weird problem with it. I don't know if any of you ever heard or experienced this before, but when I connected the Denon 1920 to my Onkyo receiver through a coax cable I can hear a local sports radio station out of my surround speakers at high volumes. I didn't realize this until I was playing a movie at a descent volume and when a quiet scene arrived I heard voices from my surround speakers. I stood up and listen to the sound closer and it was a radio station. I stopped the movie and when there was no sound I turned the volume up and I can hear the radio station sound coming out of my surround speakers (not the center or the main speakers, just the back ones). I immediately switch DVD players and connected my old Sony player again and the voices were gone. I thought it was my receiver but my old DVD player is not showing the problem. Apparently it has something to do with the Denon 1920. Can you guys guide me the right direction on what to do?

I think it is pretty weird since my old Sony plays fine and the Denon produces the the noise. It makes no sense to me...

AlieniceT

09-03-05, 05:30 PM

I am still waiting if this player does Pal to Ntsc? and can be made Region Free?

as European version, does and also plays DIVX?

No PAL playback (or conversion) on the US model, and no DivX. I'm sure region-free is possible, but without PAL playback, there's not much point to having it.

Denon obviously left some features out of the 1920 to entice people who need PAL-to-NTSC to their 2910 and 3910 models. And, Denon is one of the manufacturers who regard DivX as a European phenonema, along with Panasonic, Onkyo and Sony. Onkyo, for example, has disabled DivX capability on their DV-SP502 player, which behind the Onkyo casing is really a DivX-friendly Pioneer DV-588A.

BIG ED

09-03-05, 07:35 PM

AlieniceT,
I've enjoyed all your posts in this thread, thanks & hope your happy.
I did see you mention SA-CD playback (twice), how about CD & DVD-A?

dmcdayton

09-03-05, 09:29 PM

Terricola

09-03-05, 09:37 PM

Terricola,

Try a different connection method for the player. Sounds like you are picking up stray radio signals via your wiring, I doubt its the player itself, just co-incidence that the player is creating just the right antenna loop.

I assume you mean coax for digital audio, if so, try an optical out.

dmcdayton,

I was thinking about that while I sit here at work and think about what the problem could be. I will try using an optical cable when I get home to see if it corrects the problem. The only thing I'm thinking is having to spend more money to purchase an additional optical cable if that's the case. That will put the coax output on the Denon 1920 useless on my setup :(

I'll let you know what happens when I test the connection with the optical cable instead of a coax.

Thanks for your help :)

Jennice

09-04-05, 11:18 AM

Hmm... Didn't you guys talk about the Denon 1920 as having BB 179x D/A chips?
The Danish dealer states: Audio D/A-dekodere: 24-bit/192kHz (Burr-Brown PCM1738).

I'm starting to wonder what's going on here?!

Jennice

zoro

09-04-05, 02:33 PM

No PAL playback (or conversion) on the US model, and no DivX. I'm sure region-free is possible, but without PAL playback, there's not much point to having it.

Denon obviously left some features out of the 1920 to entice people who need PAL-to-NTSC to their 2910 and 3910 models. And, Denon is one of the manufacturers who regard DivX as a European phenonema, along with Panasonic, Onkyo and Sony. Onkyo, for example, has disabled DivX capability on their DV-SP502 player, which behind the Onkyo casing is really a DivX-friendly Pioneer DV-588A.

Have you personally tried it? or Just by the specs?

JBtech

09-04-05, 02:53 PM

There are different specs for D/A floating around. Right now Denon USA and Denon Germany both spec the 1920 with Burr Brown DSD-1608. At the same time a lot of resellers have them spec'd with Burr Brown PCM1738.
Can someone please confirm the final spec?

DSD1608 (info from TI)
---------------------------
Analog Performance
* Dynamic Range: 108 dB, Typical
* SNR: 108 dB, Typical
* THD+N: 0.0012%, Typical

PCM1738 (info from TI)
--------------------------
Analog Performance
Dynamic Range: 117dB typ
SNR: 117dB typ
THD+N: 0.0004% typ

/Jimmy

Terricola

09-04-05, 03:54 PM

dmcdayton,

I switch the coax digital output to the optical and the problem was gone for about five minutes until it returned. Now it comes and goes as opposed to being there all that time like it does with the coax cable. I'm lost, I looked at everything I could imagine and nothing seems to get rid of the noise. When I unplug the optical and connect the coax cable the radio station automatically starts but when I switch the coax to the optical it comes and goes. So weird!!

Any other suggestions?

If I can't figure anything out its going to leave me no choice but to take the player back :(

AlieniceT

09-04-05, 05:10 PM

AlieniceT,
I've enjoyed all your posts in this thread, thanks & hope your happy.
I did see you mention SA-CD playback (twice), how about CD & DVD-A?

BIG ED,
Thanks for the feedback. The SACD playback on the 1920 is its' strength, in my opinion. Very detailed, open soundstage, articulate bass reproduction. It compares favorably with my Pioneer 59AVi and a Sony 975 I owned previously. The Pioneer sound with SACD is very warm, which is often a good quality, but not in all cases. The Denon sound is more neutral, which is to say it seems more faithful to the source material. The Denon should work well with most set-ups, provided that it is not paired with a receiver or speakers that are overly bright. In that case, a Pioneer or Marantz universal would make a better choice. The Marantz DV-6600 due out this fall looks to be a clone of the 1920, but with Marantz audio tweaks. The remote is virtually identical to the 1920 remote.
http://www.marantz.com/pdfs/e_dv6600.pdf

DVD-A on the Denon 1920 is also very good, again presenting good imaging and detail, but with not quite as wide of a soundstage as with SACD. Redbook CD is good, but about what you would expect for this price range. I have much better D/A conversion for Redbook in my processor, so I use the coax out on the 1920 for CD's. It's similar to my 59AVi with Redbook, in that both reproduce low bass instruments with a lack of precision - my processor keeps bass under control and better defined compared to these players.

The audio performance for the hi-rez formats with the Denon 1920 is the best I have heard in a player at this price. Denon obviously made this a priority over Redbook quality. It is not anywhere near the performance of the high end universals like the Onkyo SP1000 or the Denon 5910. Nor should it be for $350.00. And, it is only one link in the audio chain. Without good amplification and speakers, they all sound like crap. :)

AlieniceT

09-04-05, 05:11 PM

Have you personally tried it? or Just by the specs?

zoro,
I've tried both DivX and PAL discs in the 1920 and get a 'disc error' message with each media format. The PAL disc I tried said 'incorrect region', which is strange as it was a region 0 disc. It should have said 'unable to play this type of disc', which is basically what it said with the DivX disc. I think the 1920 recognizes PAL DVD's, so it should be able to play them. It may not convert them, but it probably can output a PAL signal. Why Denon has made this player NTSC-only is beyond me.

HDntheCity

09-04-05, 05:40 PM

zoro,
Why Denon has made this player NTSC-only is beyond me.

probably to save $$$'s. i've seen some lower-priced A/V receivers that have component switching but not S-Video!!!! again i'm guessing to save money. and let's face it a $350 universal player with very good sound & good video is going to SELL!!!
BTW AlieniceT thanks for the expanded opinion on the 1920's multi-channel playback. IF i go with this player it should sound fantastic thru my 1st gen. Boston Acoustics CRs(i.e. CR9's, CR6's et. al.). think i'll keep my RP82 tho.

jim

mooneydriver

09-04-05, 06:56 PM

If I can't figure anything out its going to leave me no choice but to take the player back :(
Perhaps you should consider taking the Onkyo receiver back. After all, the receiver is the unit that has an FM tuner in it, and not the DVD player. Why the Denon caused the receiver to misbehave, that I do not know!

Jennice

09-05-05, 02:06 AM

AlieniceT

09-05-05, 03:18 AM

I'm wondering...
You all have nice things to say about the 1920, but the CD playback quality seem to be it's worst side (or least good, as overall everyone has said good things about this unit).
Would I be (much?) better off, buying a dedicated CD player like Cambridge Audio Azur 540C or 640C, or Denon DCD-685 or NAD 521 (I've heard the NAD with their top-of-line integrated amp, and several speakers, and wasn't impressed, but I don't know if it was the amp to blame). Can someone please advise?

Jennice

Denon obviously focused on the SACD sound quality with the 1920, as SACD can only be played back through the multi-channel analog outs (no i.link, Denon Link 3, or HDMI 1.2 for a digital output). For quality Redbook CD performance (and better quality DVD-A than the 1920 provides), you need to feed a digital signal from the 1920 to a quality pre-pro or receiver with better D/A conversion than the DVD player provides. That is the compromise that comes with a $350.00 universal player. With a "high-end" set-up featuring a player feeding a digital signal via i.link connection to a pre-pro or receiver, one wire is all that is required and the end result is nearly always superior to what can be achieved within the DVD player using its' analog outs (Onkyo SP1000 and Denon 5910 are notable exceptions).

Remember that the 1920 is capable of passing multi-channel DVD-A as well as CD audio in digital form over the HDMI connection. The best set-up for anyone using the Denon 1920 is to send CD and DVD-A over HDMI to an HDMI 1.1 receiver or processor (these are now available), while feeding SACD signals to the receiver or pre-pro through the multi-channel analog interconnects. The next best configuration would be sending CD audio over coaxial or optical output to your pre-pro or receiver, and SACD and DVD-A over the analog outs.

Getting a stand-alone player for two-channel CD playback is always an option, and a good route to go with if you listen to music more often than view movies. You also extend the life of your players by splitting the workload between two machines. ;)

Jennice

09-05-05, 04:47 AM

... The best set-up for anyone using the Denon 1920 is to send CD and DVD-A over HDMI to an HDMI 1.1 receiver or processor (these are now available), while feeding SACD signals to the receiver or pre-pro through the multi-channel analog interconnects. The next best configuration would be sending CD audio over coaxial or optical output to your pre-pro or receiver, and SACD and DVD-A over the analog outs.

Getting a stand-alone player for two-channel CD playback is always an option, and a good route to go with if you listen to music more often than view movies. You also extend the life of your players by splitting the workload between two machines. ;)

Yes, but I don't have any HDMI capable gear, and with my financial limitations, I guess I would be limited to dedicated DC-players like the ones I mentioned. SOoooo, I wonder if I would really gain anything noticably by choosing a dedicated redbook player like the suggested denon. If so, I would probably choose a dedicated CD player, and a HD/DVD recorder like the Sony 710 to use as DVD player in stead of the 1920, well knowing that it's a bit of a compromise. I play more music than movies.

EDIT: Would I be better off, buying a dedicated D/A converter like the Behringer SRC 2496 Ultra Match Pro, or something? Any recommendations on (affordable) D/A-converters that would offer better CD audio than the 1920 can give?

Jennice

dmcdayton

09-05-05, 09:02 AM

nmo

09-05-05, 11:52 AM

... The Marantz DV-6600 due out this fall looks to be a clone of the 1920, but with Marantz audio tweaks. The remote is virtually identical to the 1920 remote.
http://www.marantz.com/pdfs/e_dv6600.pdf
I googled for it and found that it's due November. Any idea how well Marantz keeps to it due date? I'd love to pair this with my Marantz receiver. It plays everything and should hold me for a couple of years till HD-DVD/Blu-ray is more common.

BTW I hope that Marantz doesn't remove the Divx compatibilty when they bring it to the US.

EDIT: Don't mean to hijack this thread. I'll probably post a new thread on the Marantz.

termite

09-05-05, 01:02 PM

AlieniceT

09-05-05, 02:42 PM

AlieniceT,
Great to hear you liked the SACD/DVD-A on the 1920.
I haven't tried many players like you did, but in my setup
(Yamaha receiver with 5.1 analog in) I find very low bass
coming into my HSU sub. I have Altantic tech speakers and
chose speaker settings in my Denon menu to small. Denon is
not allowing me to increase sub level more than 0db and
that seems very very low. My receiver doesn't allow me to
adjust sublevel when external analog 5.1 is connected.
I also tried lowering the 5 ch output by as much as -10db
in the Denon setup while keeping the .1 output at 0db (max).
I'm still not happy with the sub level on this player.
I wonder whether you've experienced this issue ?
If so how have you set the sub level on your setup ?

termite,

Sorry to hear you are not getting adequate bass with the 1920 in your set-up. My set-up is very different from what you are using. I have a 5.1 system (waiting for 7.1 content before upgrading), but I have full range capability at all positions with each speaker having a built-in sub or its' own dedicated sub. My front three speakers are Def Tech BP2002TL's (250watt built-in subs), Def Tech CLR3000 (150watt built-in sub), and two BPX surrounds (each sub crossed over into its' own 250watt sub). Additionally, I have a Def Tech PF1500TL subwoofer for the .1 channel (500watts on it). So, as you can see, I have no shortage of low end power! I do not have any of them turned up even half way, which I like - none of them are working very hard.

By design, SACD and DVD-A work best in a system of full range speakers. That way you do not have to worry about bass management. However, I know that for many people that is just not possible. When playing SACD's, I notice that bass output to my .1 channel is about 10db lower than normal. It doesn't bother me because I get all kinds of bass out of the other five channels. But DVD-A .1 channel levels are seemingly correct. My Denon AVR-5700 allows me to adjust the subwoofer level on the external input to + or - 12db! If I feel I am not getting enough bass I kick the sub channel up 6 to 10db and I'm good.

I had a Yamaha receiver previously and sold it due to inadequate bass output, moving to the Denon. I am now using the Denon as a pre-pro and feeding it to a Sherwood-Newcastle A-965 7-channel amp. It is a terrific amp - best $900.00 I have spent ($1500.00 list) on my HT. It sounds as good as amps costing two to three times as much.

You may want to increase the gain on your sub to where you are getting good bass output with SACD/DVD-A, and then reduce the sub setting in your receiver for the inputs where the Yamaha allows for sub volume adjustments.

termite

09-05-05, 03:55 PM

AlieniceT,
Congratulations on your setup. I didn't realize you have full range
speakers with such a fine receiver. No wonder you have no issues with
SACD/DVD-A. Thanks for the suggestion on lowering receiver bass for
DD/DTS and raising the levels at the sub. I'll give it a shot.

Shawn1968

09-05-05, 09:51 PM

[QUOTE=AlieniceT]Denon obviously focused on the SACD sound quality with the 1920, as SACD can only be played back through the multi-channel analog outs (no i.link, Denon Link 3, or HDMI 1.2 for a digital output).

QUOTE]

Hi...

New to the boards here, but looks like a great place!

I just purchased the Denon 1920 and am a bit confused regarding SACD playback. First, my stereo receiver does not have 5.1 inputs. So I set up the 1920 with a coax to the receiver for redbook/DVD-A and used the 2-channel Denon analog outputs for what I thought was a two channel SACD signal (all the SACD discs I own are two channel, so multi-channel SACD is not needed). But the above post seems to indicate that 2-channel analog SACD signal is not possible, only 5.1 analog is.

Can someone please clarify? I'll be returning the player if 2.0 SACD analog playback is not possible.

Thanks in advance.

AlieniceT

09-05-05, 10:24 PM

I just purchased the Denon 1920 and am a bit confused regarding SACD playback. First, my stereo receiver does not have 5.1 inputs. So I set up the 1920 with a coax to the receiver for redbook/DVD-A and used the 2-channel Denon analog outputs for what I thought was a two channel SACD signal (all the SACD discs I own are two channel, so multi-channel SACD is not needed). But the above post seems to indicate that 2-channel analog SACD signal is not possible, only 5.1 analog is.

Can someone please clarify? I'll be returning the player if 2.0 SACD analog playback is not possible.

Thanks in advance.

Shawn,
The 1920 obviously supports 2-channel SACD analog playback. I was focusing on multchannel SACD in my previous post. Sorry to confuse. The Denon will output the front left and right channels of any SACD over both the 5.1 analog and 2.0 analog outs, regardless of whether it is 2-channel or 5.1 content.

BTW, I would not recommend using the coaxial digital out for DVD-A, only redbook CD. The coaxial or optical outs on the Denon will only feed a downconverted PCM signal to your receiver when playing a DVD-A, which will be much lower in resolution to what you can send over the analog outputs.

Shawn1968

09-05-05, 10:33 PM

AlieniceT

09-05-05, 10:46 PM

Hi Aliance T - thanks for the clarification :)

On a related note, for dual layer SACDs, if one wanted to listen to the Redbook layer on the 1920, how would one go about it? I've read through the manual and couldn't find any refernece on how to do this (it seems to default to SACD, with no option for the Redbook layer).

Shawn,
On the remote control, bottom left hand side, is a button labeled Super Audio CD Setup. This button allows you to choose which program group that you wish to play. On a Hybrid SACD, you will cycle through: 2-Ch area, Multichannel area, and CD (redbook) area. If you do not have your video display on when choosing your program group, the display on the front panel of the Denon is a little small and requires some close-up viewing to confirm you have the correct program group. Denon did a good thing putting it on the remote of the 1920, as Pioneer buries the setting in their initial set-up menu. Pain in the butt. :D

Shawn1968

09-06-05, 12:38 AM

Thanks again AlianceT, sometimes I don't see the forest for the trees!

Ok, one more question that may seem incredibly dumb, but here goes...

I've got the 1920 hooked up to my receiver for SACD via 2-channel analog. However, sound is coming out of all 5.1 speakers. How is this possible? Seeing as I'm using the left/right outputs and not the 5.1 outputs, I would have expected only left and right channels.

Again, sorry if this is a dumb question, kinda new to all this. FYI, my reciveer is a Sony str-de 925, if that makes any difference.

Jennice

09-06-05, 05:50 AM

AlieniceT

09-06-05, 06:16 AM

There has been talk about the CD playback quality. Would the 2910 (even though it's older) be a major improvement in those regards? How does the 2910 handle Macroblocking compared to the 1920 (considering both analogue and DVI connection)? When looking at the features, it seems that a lot is inherited from the 2910 to the 1920. I suppose the quality isn't the same level? Where is the model 2200 placed in the herachy? it's priced like the 2910, but I don't know it's age. Reason: The denon 1400 has recently had it's price cut by 50%, but it's still the same player. I guess it's most comparable to the 1920, or am I wrong?

Jennice

The Denon DVD-2910 and DVD-2200 share the same Burr-Brown DSD-1791 D/A convertors. CD playback is comparable between the two. Either one is better at Redbook than the 1920. Your best choice in a Denon that may be had for a good price would be the DVD-2900. Much better build qualtiy than the 2910, 2200, or 1920 and better D/A conversion as well. No Faroudja in the 2900 either, so no macroblocking worries there.

Jennice

09-06-05, 08:06 AM

I can't see the 2900 available as new, and by the prices (old adds) it was too expensive for me anyway. I don't want to buy used. Am I correct in assuming that the 2910 is the replacement for the 2200?

Is the 2910 better or worse than the 1920 regarding macroblocking? On the pics posted earlier I don't even know what to look for, so I guess I should be happy enough :)

Jennice

AlieniceT

09-06-05, 08:48 AM

AlieniceT

09-06-05, 09:45 AM

Ok, one more question that may seem incredibly dumb, but here goes...

I've got the 1920 hooked up to my receiver for SACD via 2-channel analog. However, sound is coming out of all 5.1 speakers. How is this possible? Seeing as I'm using the left/right outputs and not the 5.1 outputs, I would have expected only left and right channels.

Again, sorry if this is a dumb question, kinda new to all this. FYI, my reciveer is a Sony str-de 925, if that makes any difference.

Is it possible that you have one of the Sony DSP soundfields or Pro Logic engaged on your receiver? Make sure you have stereo mode selected on the Sony. You should only be hearing your main speakers and possibly your sub as well. Also, the Denon has a Virtual Surround Sound setting, but it is supposed to simulate a multichannel surround set-up using only two speakers. I doubt that you are hearing that. If you are only sending the 2-channel analog signal from the Denon, I am fairly certain that what you are hearing is the product of your receivers' settings.

Jennice

09-06-05, 10:19 AM

In my opinion the 1920 is slightly better than the 2910 at minimizing macroblocking, primarily due to the fact that it is newer and Denon has had more time to try and solve the problem than with their older models. At any rate, it is still a highly display-dependent problem.

Ok, so display is ok on both... I just noticed that the 2910 has a wealth of display onections, incl. DVI if I'm correct.

BTW, if you do a Google search on the 2900, you will find a few places with new stock for not much more than a 2910. It can be had for much less than it's original MSRP of $999.00. The difference in build quality and audio performance between the 2900 and 2910, however, is dramatic.

I can't see any 2900's here in Denmark :/ I think I saw one in silver, but I'd REALLY like the black to go with the rest of the gear.
You say there's a big change in build and performance on 2900 vs. 2910. Which is the better?
How about the 2200 model? It costs the same as the 2910 here, and is (still?) available.

Jennice

AlieniceT

09-06-05, 11:24 AM

The 2900 is the better model. The 2200 and the 2910 are both manufactured in China. The 2900 is built in Japan.

If you cannot locate a black 2900 that is new, then I would recommend the 2910, as it has all the connection options that you noted. More than the 2200 has to offer.

Jennice

09-06-05, 11:34 AM

I'm impressed! You guys really know your stuff!

Earlier in the thread, there were two images posted in regards to macroblocking. What would I look for in those as signs of macroblocking causing trouble?

OK, so the 2910 is better than the 1920 for Cd's. Does anyone in here know how the 2910 handles (dual layer) DVD-/+R(W)'s, if the 1920 accepts DL recordables?

Also, I wonder about overall picture quality. The 2910 is more expensive, but the 1920 is newer. Has technology advanced, or is the more expensive 2910 still significantly better on the video part? (for the price, there sure should be some differences, or is the difference "only" regarding sound)?.

EDIT:
My current CD player is the Onkyo Integra DX-706 (about 12 years old). They just don't build them like this anymore (mechanically). If anyone of you know this player, has technology advanced to produce much better D/A conversion in, say, the 1920, or will I still have to spend considerably more to get similar CD sound?

Jennice

Terricola

09-06-05, 11:36 AM

Terricola,

What channel of radio are you getting? Is it the same one the receiver is turned to? Try changing the channels on the receiver then going back to the DVD and see if the stray radio noise changes with it. If so, then yes your receiver is probably at fault.

Does the radio noise occur with just the optical plugged in and no video? How about video and no optical?

dmcdayton

I am not sure which radio station I'm getting, all I know is that it is a local sports radio station. It is hard to understand what comes out of the speakers due to the static. I picked up a few things that's why I know it is a sports radio station. It is not the same radio station my receiver is turned to in terms of AM or FM.

I spent close to 10 hours yesterday unplugging and removing everything I have to start from scratch to see if I could find the problem. I connected my Onkyo receiver to the Denon 1920 to my HDTV. I used an optical cable for the audio and an HDMI cable to my TV. I turned the sound up and I couldn't hear anything, so I continued plugging things in and testing until I could here the noise. After I completed connecting everything (I even had my old DVD player connected via component to my TV and coax to my receiver digital in) I tested it again and I couldn't hear anything. There was only one thing I had to connect and it was my Dish Network HD receiver. The moment I plugged it in it automatically picked up the radio station signal. So I unplugged it and it went away. So, I'm assuming I found the problem, the Dish Network HD receiver is picking up a radio station signal and sending it to my receiver.

What's weird is that it didn't used to do it before and all the sudden (perhaps since I plugged in the new Denon 1920) it started doing it. I called Dish Network technical support and they said their HD receiver don't pick up radio signals and they don't understand why that is happening. They are sending a technician on Thursday to take a look at it. I am thinking is a defective box, but I don't know.

Have you ever heard of a satellite receiver picking up signals like that?

I'll keep you posted

dmcdayton

09-06-05, 11:59 AM

Terricola

09-06-05, 12:09 PM

Terricola,

Sounds like you are following the right path. Now that you've proved it isn't a 1920 issue, I would post this problem in the HT construction area, there are some installers who post regularly that might pick up and help you out. I have experienced this type of thing before, I use Canare 4s11 speaker cable that rejects RF noise like this. I think you are creating some kind of antenna loop thats picking up noise via your speaker cables...the Dish is just the straw on the camel's back...either that or its in a grounding issue. Try running an extension cord from an outlet on a different circuit and plug the dish into that...if you get different behaviour that might be a better clue.

There are people on these forums that can advise much better than I, just get the post noticed in the right place...it will stay buried here in 1920 discussion.

dmcdayton,

Thanks!! I figured my post was appropriate at first, but its now completely out of topic. I will search for the correct thread and post it there and see if I could get some answers. At least I'm glad is not my receiver or anything else, it could be costly to repair those things. It sucks when you come across problems like this because they can be a BIG pain in the a$$ to fix :eek: .

Anyway, from what I tested so far the Denon 1920 is excellent for its price. I am happy with the picture and sound quality. Things could be better but there isn't such a thing as a perfect player and you get what you pay for, this is only a $350.00 "Universal" player. For those of you considering buying this player, its worth the money.

Thanks again!

Terricola

09-06-05, 12:19 PM

[QUOTE=dmcdayton]Terricola,

Now that you've proved it isn't a 1920 issue, I would post this problem in the HT construction area, there are some installers who post regularly that might pick up and help you out.

I am fairly new to the Forums and I'm not sure where to post my message. You mentioned the HT construction area and I wanted to make sure I understood correctly. The Home Entertainment & Theater Builder area right? I don't want to post it under the wrong thread and not get any resonses.

Sorry and Thanks again!

zoro

09-06-05, 12:25 PM

dmcdayton,

Thanks!! I figured my post was appropriate at first, but its now completely out of topic. I will search for the correct thread and post it there and see if I could get some answers. At least I'm glad is not my receiver or anything else, it could be costly to repair those things. It sucks when you come across problems like this because they can be a BIG pain in the a$$ to fix :eek: .

Anyway, from what I tested so far the Denon 1920 is excellent for its price. I am happy with the picture and sound quality. Things could be better but there isn't such a thing as a perfect player and you get what you pay for, this is only a $350.00 "Universal" player. For those of you considering buying this player, its worth the money.

Thanks again!

Till we get Marantz 6600 with DIVX and PAL TO NTSC?

mooneydriver

09-06-05, 10:52 PM

Well, my 1920 arrived today. I just hooked it up and started playing with it. First impressions:

* This has got to be the worst user's manual ever written. Granted, I usually don't need (or use) user's manuals to hook up AV gear. However, AV gear usually work fine right out of the box. So, I hooked up the 1920 to my Pioneer 5050 PDP via HDMI, no image. Spent five minutes looking through the manual, no clue. I finally found the "HDMI" button on the front panel. After a couple of clicks, the 1920 synched up with the display and everything else was fine. Why Denon did not include a page in the manual to facilitate initial setup, I have no idea.

* Going through the setup screens, I noticed that the manual was not arranged according to the order in which the setup submenus appeared on screen. That would have made too much sense.

* Having gotten over my initial disappointment with the manual, I put Finding Nemo in. I was astounded by the picture quality. My previous player was a Harman Kardon DVD 25 progressive scan player, which I ran in 480i through component (480i because the Pioneer deinterlacer did a better job than the HK's). Those two players are in two different leagues -- the Denon 1920 through HDMI produces near HD-quality video. At first glance, I did not see a major difference between 480p, 720p, and 1080i, which means the Faroudja scaler is doing as well a job at the Pioneer PDP. I'll continue to experiment and report.

* No evidence of MB yet. Currently watching Peter Gabriel's Growing Up Live DVD (and continuing the be impressed with picture quality).

* I'm running bitstream out to my receiver, so I have no comments on sound quality yet. My receiver cannot handle 5.1 analog audio, so I do not have any SACD or DVD-Audio software to test. That's the next upgrade once the piggy bank fills up again
;)

Jennice

09-07-05, 05:58 AM

Have you tried to compare the Harman vs. Denon over analogue video (Composite or S-video?)

Jennice

Jennice

09-07-05, 06:37 AM

According to the data I've seen, this device reads just about any media, as long as it's round and shiny. Has anyone tried with Dual layer re-writables?

Jennice

rr6966

09-07-05, 07:08 AM

Jennice,

I have used Verbatim DVD+R DL DVD's without any problems. The player seems to do well on homemade recorded medium.

Jennice

09-07-05, 07:42 AM

Just called the local dealer... They won't have it before September 20th. :(
I can't wait to see it, after all the positive things said about it (especially for the price tag) :D

In the meantime... Everyone talks about HDMI and DVI (My Sanyo PLV-Z2 has DVI). I have a 18-20m cable run, and the few DVI cables I have seen at this length cost more than half that of a 1920 player! Also, these lenths aren't officially supported. Thus, I will probably run it over some analogue video output. Has anyone tested this, compared to other players in the same price range?

EDIT: Just saw a description of the 1920 on a german site. This is what they say about the audio:
>>8-Kanal Audio D/A-Wandler: 192 kHz / 24-Bit (Burr-Brown DSD1608)<<

An 8 channel converter? Hmmm...!?

Jennice

mooneydriver

09-07-05, 10:26 AM

Have you tried to compare the Harman vs. Denon over analogue video (Composite or S-video?)
Oh no! Composite and s-video connections are banned in my house :) I am planning to compare the component outputs of the HK and Denon this weekend, though.

Jennice

09-07-05, 10:43 AM

Oh no! Composite and s-video connections are banned in my house :) I am planning to compare the component outputs of the HK and Denon this weekend, though.

I don't want to pay for a component cable of 18 m just for the fun of it, but is there a major improvement from composite/s-video to component? My current, cheap player does not have seperate component output. It's a cheap supermarket-kinda-player (about USD60), so I guess an expensive cable can't be justified anyhow, before I get a better player (like the Denon :) ).

Jennice

Jennice

09-07-05, 10:47 AM

Regarding the redbook playback:
My current CD player is the Onkyo Integra DX-706 (about 12 years old). They just don't build them like this anymore (mechanically). It's old, but seemingly still popular in the diyaudio-forum. It's just that it's LASER is slowly dying on me I think. If anyone of you know this player: Has technology advanced to produce much better D/A conversion in, say, the 1920, or will I still have to spend considerably more to get similar CD sound?

Jennice

winowicki

09-07-05, 10:52 AM

An 8 channel converter? Hmmm...!?

Yes indeed, there are six channels for the 5.1 discrete outputs, and another pair for the Ledft/Right Stero downmix, for a total of eight audio DACs.

I plan to use just the digital outputs, but still not quite enough of those. For example, would be nice to run a DVI direct to a display, and use the HDMI into a receiver for the audio, but there is no separate DVI output on the 1920. So I need to either run the HDMI into a receiver and then another HDMI cable from the receiver to the display, or else ignore the HDMI audio, use S/PDIF from the player to receiver, and then SIX analog cabcles for SACD (do not have any of those yet, but that was part of the attraction of this player).

Tired of waiting for HDMI 1.2 to get digital SACD! Aren't we all glad that digital audio is "simplifying" cabling?

nmo

09-07-05, 10:53 AM

nmo

09-07-05, 11:03 AM

...but is there a major improvement from composite/s-video to component?
Jennice
Oh yeah!

Check out MonoPrice (http://www.monoprice.com) for affordable Component and HDMI/DVI cables.

Jennice

09-07-05, 11:12 AM

...Check out MonoPrice (http://www.monoprice.com) for affordable Component and HDMI/DVI cables.

Thanks! Great link! :) I just found a 50 ft HDMI- DVI cable... in back-order without E.T.A.! :(

Jennice

cnjvh

09-07-05, 01:06 PM

I have a question on Black Level setting. This can be accessed when a DVD is playing by using the Mode button (second from top right) on the remote. By default it is set to on, making the picture a little brighter but hazy. When I turn it off, the haziness is gone, but the picture does become a bit dark. What is the best way to adjust this setting?

There is also a Gamma setting. What exactly does this do?

When the black level is on, it the color black is represented by 53.6mV (7.5 IRE) and when it is off the color black is represent by OmV (0.0 IRE). Black areas are "blanked".

NTSC standard is 7.5 IRE for black, ATSC (HD) is 0. If you use the same input on your set for both cable (NTSC) and DVD, use the 7.5 IRE (or "on") setting so your blacks during DVD playback will match the blacks during cable viewing. Use a DVD with the THX Optimizer to correctly set brightness on the set.

If you use different inputs for cable and DVD, turn the black level off so your blacks are at 0 IRE during DVD playback (not hazy - looks better). Use a DVD with the THX Optimizer to correctly set brightness on the set for the DVD input.
The cable input you will have to adjust brighness by eye. When something with lots of black is being shown (black suits are good), reduce the brightness just until black detail begins to be lost in shadow.

The gamma setting is the same as brightness. I would leave all those alone and make those adjustments on your set, not in the DVD player.