dhumphress, what color? I've been eyeing a 2404, but from what I see, a 3104 is virtually the same, only better expandibility.

The base is white and the top translucent cover is black.

If you are interested, you can email me. My email address is danny humphress at hot mail dot comm (no spaces -- you know what that means but hopefully spambots don't).

You've got mail

Not from you! ;-) I didn't get anything.

I asked this question on a separate thread but didn't get an answer from any of the resident experts so I will ask it here:

I want to control (including dimming) the rope lighting I will have in a ceiling tray built out from my soffits. Is best practive to hardwire the rope lighting to the grafik eye or to install a standard duplex receptacle up on the soffit face and wire it to the GE?

If I understand things correctly, NEC would prohibit wiring a standard receptacle to a dimmer switch but I have seen a few construction threads that mentioned adding a receptacle to a soffit to connect 110V rope lighting and controlling with a GE.

I'm getting ready to put lighting up and want to know how I should do the wiring. With a GE do I do one run from each light to the GE or bundle lights into zones and bring one wire for each zone to the GE?

JoelST you can find your answer at the Lutron website under application notes, number 109 for dimming portable lamps via receptacles.

Thanks,

JoelST you can find your answer at the Lutron website under application notes, number 109 for dimming portable lamps via receptacles.

I had read about Lutron's dimmable receptacle but was unable to confirm from their literature whether the Grafik Eye was one of the specific Lutron dimmers that must be used with this receptacle. Can anyone confirm this?

A second issue with using Lutron's DFDU is the need to replace the rope light's plug with Lutron's RP-FDU-10 replacement plug. That would likely void the rope light warranty (not a huge issue to me) but if I have to bother with that, I would probably just cut the plug off and hard wire the thing. Am I missing something?

I had read about Lutron's dimmable receptacle but was unable to confirm from their literature whether the Grafik Eye was one of the specific Lutron dimmers that must be used with this receptacle. Can anyone confirm this?

Yes it is, the NEC is concerned that someone would plug an appliance into this socket and cause safety issues. The special socket prevents this.

A second issue with using Lutron's DFDU is the need to replace the rope light's plug with Lutron's RP-FDU-10 replacement plug. That would likely void the rope light warranty (not a huge issue to me) but if I have to bother with that, I would probably just cut the plug off and hard wire the thing. Am I missing something?

You can use a small extension cord and plug the lights into it and change out the extension cord plug with the special plug.

I've ordered the special plug and socket for my install and they are not cheap!

Hope this helps!

I am trying to decide whether to buy a GRX-3104 system, but I have a few questions first which I hope somebody can answer.

The system is supposed to control 4 groups (zones) of spotlight in addition to, eventually, motorized curtains (on/off). I would also like the possibility to program different scenes and control these scenes with a remote control. Will the GRX-3104 be able to do these operations?

Is it necessary to install wallstations for each group (zone) of spotlights, or can I connect all the wires in the controlunit? What kind of preparations must be done in order to later control the curtains?

I asked this a while back in another thread, but it never got an answer.

I have a 3104 with a full gray cover plate, including the flip up part. I also have the original white/translucent black cover. I would like to convert my gray cover to be gray on the bottom and have the translucent black flit cover.

I've tried before to remove the hinged cover, but cannot figure out how to do it without possibly breaking it. Has anyone had success doing this and if so how?

Thanks.

.....rigging the GE for a remote IR flasher seems a bit archaic for this price level. It sure would make things a lot easier if Lutron equipped these units with a secondary 1/8" mini-plug IR input jack, accessible from a rear recess in the housing.

I am looking at picking up the GE this week. I am looking at a 3103-T to be mounted at the back of the room, and NTGRX-4S next to the front entrance. If I want to control these scenes with my Pronto, do I need to buy the NTGRX-4s-IR at $225, or can I get away with the NTGRX-4s at $130 and just point the pronto over the shoulder? I will be using the monster cable
grafik eye cable to go between the 3103-T and the accessory unit.

Anyone know?

Thanks,
-D


I asked this a while back in another thread, but it never got an answer.

I have a 3104 with a full gray cover plate, including the flip up part. I also have the original white/translucent black cover. I would like to convert my gray cover to be gray on the bottom and have the translucent black flit cover.

I've tried before to remove the hinged cover, but cannot figure out how to do it without possibly breaking it. Has anyone had success doing this and if so how?

Thanks.

Anyone know?

Thanks,
-D
It just pulls off... It might feel like some of the tabs will break, that's because they actually might!!

Try prying gently with ther tips of your fingers from either the top or bottom...

Sorry, I must not have been clear. I want to remove the hinged part (flip up part) from one GE cover plate and exchange it with the hinged part of another. I know how to remove the actual cover plate from the unit itself :-)

Just talking about the hinged part here so I can take the translucent cover of one GE and replace it with the opaque cover of another GE.

Thanks anyway,
-D


It just pulls off... It might feel like some of the tabs will break, that's because they actually might!!

Try prying gently with ther tips of your fingers from either the top or bottom...

Has anyone seen the 20th Anniversary Edition GE?
If so does it have any new features other than separate control of shades and new button styling?

.....rigging the GE for a remote IR flasher seems a bit archaic for this price level. It sure would make things a lot easier if Lutron equipped these units with a secondary 1/8" mini-plug IR input jack, accessible from a rear recess in the housing.
You can't put it on the back or it would have to meet NEC specs (because it lives in a high-voltage box). Miniplugs don't meet NEC specs for that environment. And you don't want it on the front.

Besides, Lutron already sells remote IR pickups.

The system is supposed to control 4 groups (zones) of spotlight in addition to, eventually, motorized curtains (on/off). If it has a curtain control circuit that is not a "zone", I don't know about it. A curtain controller *can* live on the same data bus, but it is a separate entity. If I understand coorrectly, on the newest models a zone can be defined to manage a curtain controller, but I'm not sure that's available on the 3100 series.

I would also like the possibility to program different scenes and control these scenes with a remote control. Will the GRX-3104 be able to do these operations?Depends on what you want to do, and the nature of your remote. GE understands IR signals, but not RF.

Is it necessary to install wallstations for each group (zone) of spotlights, No. That's the Spacer system.

or can I connect all the wires in the controlunit? Yes. One cable per zone.

What kind of preparations must be done in order to later control the curtains?Don't know. Use the technical docs on the Lutron web site, or talk to a Lutron installation specialist.

I'm getting ready to put lighting up and want to know how I should do the wiring. With a GE do I do one run from each light to the GE or bundle lights into zones and bring one wire for each zone to the GE?One per zone. The lumineres (lights) are daisy-chained.

Sorry, I must not have been clear. I want to remove the hinged part (flip up part) from one GE cover plate and exchange it with the hinged part of another. That's the question Rick answered. The cover just snaps into the faceplate.

DMF, I don't think so.

Rick talks about prying from either the top or the bottom. That doesn't make sense. The hinges are only attached at the upper left/right corners of the cover. It seems as if everyone hear is still talking about just removing the entire cover (hinged top part and the fixed part below). Of course I can do this or else I wouldn't have been able to install it.

To be clear (I'm failing I think), I have two cover plates for my GE. One all grey that I bought separately to match my decor, and one that's white on the bottom and black translucent on the top (stock color that came with the original GE). I want to "make" a cover that's grey on the bottom and black translucent on the top. So I need to unhinge the flap on one and replace it with the flap on the other.

Is this still what everyone is talking about? If so, I'll shut up and just yank the thing off.

Thank again,
-D

I have not changed just the upper part of the cover...
I definitely thought that you were having trouble removing the entire cover.

You might be able to get the upper part off the cover wthoiut breaking it, but I wouldn't guarantee that it is possible...

You're right. I just looked at one. It's not the plastic hinge I thought, but a metal pin acting as the joint pivot. I don't see a way to get it out, unless you whittle the hinge down far enough to grab it.

Have read this entire thread and many others and spent quite a bit of time on Lutron's site. It's starting to make more sense to me, but there are two questions I have not been able to get a clear understanding of:

Can the GE (probably a 3106) be wired from multiple circuits?

The way I have it drawn up now, my six zones would be:
Zone 1 - 7 can lights in theater area [CIRCUIT 1 (20A)]
Zone 2 - 3 can lights in front of screen [CIRCUIT 2 (20A)]
Zone 3 - 5 Sconces [CIRCUIT 2 (20A)]
Zone 4 - Rope Lights around stage and riser [CIRCUIT 2 (20A)]
Zone 5 - 8 can lights in main basement area [CIRCUIT 3 (20A)]
Zone 6 - ??? possibly the bar area (also on separate circuit)

It has to be able to accept at least two, right? Otherwise the 2000 total watts could not be maximized.

Would really appreciate clarification on this point.


Second question...How do you wire rope lights the GE. Do rope lights get hard-wired directly to the GE just like the can lights?

Thanks very much for help with these questions and for all the great info in this thread...has been a huge help!

Mark

Second question...How do you wire rope lights the GE. Do rope lights get hard-wired directly to the GE just like the can lights?


Not 100% certain on your first question, but I CAN give you some advice. Whatever size AWG wire you use to power the Eye, the same size HAS to be used to wire all subsequent lights controlled by the Eye. This is a code thing as you don't want the Eye to be able to provide more power down stream than a cable can handle.


As far as the rope light question:

Since rope lights have a standard indoor extension cable looking wire...it is against code to hard wire that wire into a wall outlet. That wire is not rated to be in a wall or conduit. To get around this, I simply hard wired standard outlets (using Romex wire) to my Eye and plugged the rope lights cord into those outlets. I actually did the same for some "under cabinet" lights I used under my soffit. They both dim beautifully and do not hum since both are incandescent lights.

Can the GE (probably a 3106) be wired from multiple circuits?

The way I have it drawn up now, my six zones would be:
Zone 1 - 7 can lights in theater area [CIRCUIT 1 (20A)]
Zone 2 - 3 can lights in front of screen [CIRCUIT 2 (20A)]
Zone 3 - 5 Sconces [CIRCUIT 2 (20A)]
Zone 4 - Rope Lights around stage and riser [CIRCUIT 2 (20A)]
Zone 5 - 8 can lights in main basement area [CIRCUIT 3 (20A)]
Zone 6 - ??? possibly the bar area (also on separate circuit)

It has to be able to accept at least two, right? Otherwise the 2000 total watts could not be maximized.
A single 20A circuit can nominally supply 2400W. We use 80% or 1920W for safety.

You can drive the loads with multiple circuits, but only indirectly by using a power booster module such as NGRX-PB on the load side of the GE. So technically a single 3n06 can drive 6x1920W with a PB on each zone. (Or more; I think you can use multiple PBs on each zone.)

Unless your total load would exceed the capacity of a single circuit though, there is no need for more than one circuit. Your zone design is half finished. Calculate the maximum power consumption for each zone, then decide if you need boosters. I rather doubt that you do.

I need about 70ft of PELV cable for my system. Does anyone have extra that I could buy from them? I have a 3103 and need the 18 awg two twisted pair PELV cable to go from the GE to the accessory panel.
If anyone has some, please PM me.
I cut a corner and used 18 awg 4 conductor wire and they're not twisted pairs so I now fear that I will get communication problems.

A single 20A circuit can nominally supply 2400W. We use 80% or 1920W for safety.

You can drive the loads with multiple circuits, but only indirectly by using a power booster module such as NGRX-PB on the load side of the GE. So technically a single 3n06 can drive 6x1920W with a PB on each zone. (Or more; I think you can use multiple PBs on each zone.)

Unless your total load would exceed the capacity of a single circuit though, there is no need for more than one circuit. Your zone design is half finished. Calculate the maximum power consumption for each zone, then decide if you need boosters. I rather doubt that you do.

OK, so I calculated my total load...as you suggest, I would be well under the safe total of 1920 W. However, per local code, I am limited to 10 fixtures per circuit, which brings me back to needing three separate circuits.

So, these power boosters are my option around this? I'll have to start looking into them.

Thanks,
Mark

I wonder if a "fixture" under the rule refers to high-voltage (120V) devices? You can get recessed lights that run off a single step-down transformer (vs. the more common model of a transformer in each can). The lights themselves never see more than 12V. That might count as one fixture. LV track lights do it that way. Does each bulb on the track count as a fixture? What about each tube in an fluorescent fixture?

Might be a question worth asking an inspector.

If one is using the two-box method, is it still neccesary to use the extra deep boxes? I'm thinking since I am using EMT conduit (no grounding wires) and two boxes, that standard boxes should be fine...sound right?

Thanks,

Mark

One more question/clarification...I can use 1 power booster to feed two different zones on the GE, right?

No. One Power Booster per zone. The zone controls the PB, the PB does not "feed" the zone(s).

You might be able to get by with a standard box, but I recommend the deep box anyway. Why would you not want to use the deep box??

Remember, the second box doesn't have to be a 4-gang box (or whatever size is appropriate for your GE). It just has to be big enough for all the wires that go into it. (See the posts about calculating "box fill". A 4 11/16" square, deep box will handle the wiring for 6 zones. Also be sure that the second box is exposed and accessible.

Replacement faceplates for Grafik Eye are available at Electric Supply Online (http://www.electricsuppliesonline.com/recoforgreye.html), priced between $32 and $45. Both translucent and opaque in standard colors.

I've been told by some custom installers that Grafik Eye 3106 can be wired directly into a DIMMABLE Electronic Low-Voltage Transformer, without the need of the ELVI-1000. Has anybody seen/heard of such an installation?

I would call Lutron before assuming that would work. I'm aware that some of the new electronic transformers will work with line voltage dimmers, but have not run into an installation where these new electronic ballasts were used and I was installing a G.E. Let us know what you find out.

Bill

....if one is using 14 ga stranded wires for the 120V wiring runs from the controller to the second box for each zone, is it considered good practice to use crimp-on spade lugs to make with the screw terminal connections on the GE?

The G.E. clamps down on the wire when the screw is tightened so a forked terminal is unnecessary.

Whenever I see products like this, I'm drawn back to the time of mainframe computors, clunky four button remotes, and those huge wall intercoms of the past.

Though, I like to max out my power amps & screens, I tend to be minimalistic with my lighting controls. There must be products available that don't scream for attention, are there?

Winkelmann

Sounds like a personal problem to me.



Fwiw, miniaturization of power control products has never tracked that of logic products. Maybe a 1967 mainframe will now fit on your tie clasp (you remember ties, don't you), but a 1kVA transformer is still a 20 lb. lump of metal.

Look at the Colorado Vnet stuff. Their controls are not smaller but they do blend in better.

OK...So I was all set to use the Spacer System for my lighting control until I started reading this thread about the GE. I'm interested but think there might be some limitations that would rule out GE in favor of the Spacer System, but I'm open to suggestions.

I'm finishing a large room in my walkout level that will include a HT, wetbar, kitchen and game table area. This room is at the bottom of the stairs and provides access (walk through) to some guest BR's, home office, and workshop.

I am ending up with 9 lighting zones that need control, but several of those zones need to be switchable from two locations, and a couple from three. The stair lights need to be controled from three (3) locations, and I can't get low voltage wiring to one of those areas without some SERIOUS demolition (that is not going to happen).

So I need light control at 4 different locations, one of which is at the top of the stairs, with no access for low voltage wiring. Using Spacer System I can do it for about $800 in controls.

Is it even possible to do this with the GE?

One advantage I see in using Spacer System, is that the switches can be easily used by guests (and the Mrs.) without any learning curve. I'm not sure the same holds true for the GE. But I hope you guys will fill me in.

Thanks in advance

Frank

I just ordered a 3104 and I am working out my wiring plan now. Initially I'm not going to install any keypads but I want to be able to add them in the future. I read in the manual that all accessories need to be daisy chained using the PELV cable. Is it possible to to run homeruns to the accessories that all come back to a junction box above the GE unit. My plan was to run smurf tube to all of the future wall plate locations then pull the PELV once the keypads are installed. Also has anyone installed a dimmable receptacle as a zone on their GE?

My plan was to run smurf tube to all of the future wall plate locations then pull the PELV once the keypads are installed.
Many areas do not allow smurf tubing for high voltage boxes... Even though the cable and accessory controls are LV, it ultimately needs to be mated to an HV box at the GRX location.

Also has anyone installed a dimmable receptacle as a zone on their GE?
If you do this, be sure to set the zone up for the appropriate load, and PLEASE use a dimming receptacle with the "lump" that requires you to change out the lamp cord with the special mating plug.

That way you will prevent a house guest, housekeeper, etc. from plugging a vacuum cleaner, air conditioner, TV. etc. into a dimmed outlet.

Dimmed outlets + electronics/motors/compressors = smoke.

Many areas do not allow smurf tubing for high voltage boxes... Even though the cable and accessory controls are LV, it ultimately needs to be mated to an HV box at the GRX location.


If you do this, be sure to set the zone up for the appropriate load, and PLEASE use a dimming receptacle with the "lump" that requires you to change out the lamp cord with the special mating plug.

That way you will prevent a house guest, housekeeper, etc. from plugging a vacuum cleaner, air conditioner, TV. etc. into a dimmed outlet.

Dimmed outlets + electronics/motors/compressors = smoke.


Yes I plan on getting Lutrons receptacle with the lump. Whats the best way to terminate the LV in the junction box? Can I just use Wire nuts or is there a better way?

Wire nuts work fine if you use the right sizes. The wires are 18 AWG (power), 22 (signal), 24 (drain).

But I have to ask why? The only two things they should ever terminate to are a wallstation, with its own connectors, and another PELV cable for a splice. But you said you're planning on end-running rather than daisy chaining.

IMO, if you're going to set the wallstation boxes now, then you should wire them now - without smurf tube. (If you must do conduit, do metal.) You can do end-run, but that takes a lot of cable and the Lutron PELV isn't cheap. To daisy-chain without installing a wallstation, just pull a loop down into the box and leave it. Then cut the loop when you install the wallstation.

OK...So I was all set to use the Spacer System for my lighting control until I started reading this thread about the GE. ...

I am ending up with 9 lighting zones that need control, but several of those zones need to be switchable from two locations, and a couple from three. The stair lights need to be controled from three (3) locations, and I can't get low voltage wiring to one of those areas without some SERIOUS demolition (that is not going to happen).

So I need light control at 4 different locations, one of which is at the top of the stairs, with no access for low voltage wiring. Using Spacer System I can do it for about $800 in controls.

Is it even possible to do this with the GE?

One advantage I see in using Spacer System, is that the switches can be easily used by guests (and the Mrs.) without any learning curve. I'm not sure the same holds true for the GE. But I hope you guys will fill me in.
The essential difference is that Grafik Eye adds digital control to your lighting, while Spacer System is strictly manual. Anything you can do with SS you can do with GE, and GE can do much more.

Your application is a complex one. The questions are, what do you need it to do, and how easily/cheaply can that be done? For newbies, half the battle is learning what you can do with Grafik Eye. Your design will evolve as you do. If you have the time you can continue your learning curve (there's lots more to learn). Or you can hire someone who knows the system's capabilities while you concentrate on defining what you want to accomplish. I'll make some comments for you to consider.

The sole advantage of Spacer System is that it retrofits to an existing room with little additional work. Since you are finishing (most of) your room, that advantage disappears. When you do the final costing, SS can be a bit cheaper than the equivalent GE, but it can also be more expensive.

That location you "can't get to" with LV? How much you want to bet? :D

You might end up with a mixed system, and with 9 zones to control you will need at least two GEs. But that's not a difficult design issue since GEs talk to each other and the second one can be made to act as a direct extension of the first.

There's no need to expose the GE as a general-use control. It can be placed in a closet and the scenes selected by wallstation or remote control - IR or RF.

There are 16 directly addressable scenes in a GE, and with two there can be considerably more, depending on how the two are linked.

Walk-through lighting (including the stairway) can be handled in an integrated GE (not Spacer) system by defining a scene that brings up the walk-through zone while leaving the other zones untouched, and another scene that takes the walk-through zone down while leaving the other zones untouched. No need for three- (or four-) way wiring.

There is a vast array of wallstations (switches, keypads) for GE, many two-button. Surely some one of them will satisfy... :p

By adding a GRX-PRG to the system, you add computer programming and control, and an astronomical clock. One of the coolest features of such a system is that you can bring up the ambient lighting around dark so you never have to enter a dark room.

There are also occupancy sensors that will turn on the lights when you enter a zone (e.g. the stairway) without manual action at all.

For various reasons, target the 3500 series rather than the 3100 or 2000 series, if at all possible.

Wire nuts work fine if you use the right sizes. The wires are 18 AWG (power), 22 (signal), 24 (drain).

But I have to ask why? The only two things they should ever terminate to are a wallstation, with its own connectors, and another PELV cable for a splice. But you said you're planning on end-running rather than daisy chaining.

IMO, if you're going to set the wallstation boxes now, then you should wire them now - without smurf tube. (If you must do conduit, do metal.) You can do end-run, but that takes a lot of cable and the Lutron PELV isn't cheap. To daisy-chain without installing a wallstation, just pull a loop down into the box and leave it. Then cut the loop when you install the wallstation.


Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to look over my setup again and see if I can plan it out a little differantly. Any ideas on the best place to find Lutron PELV or the Liberty Green. I don't need alot so I would probably buy it by the foot.

Where are you? (Please update your profile.)

Where are you? (Please update your profile.)


I'm in Montana. I found some of the Belden 4 conductor for around .32 a foot

Let me know if I need to start a new thread:
Can anyone point me to an electrician or service that can install a Graphic Eye in Mckinney TX? I've called a few places and had no luck.

Your application is a complex one. The questions are, what do you need it to do, and how easily/cheaply can that be done? For newbies, half the battle is learning what you can do with Grafik Eye. Your design will evolve as you do. If you have the time you can continue your learning curve (there's lots more to learn). Or you can hire someone who knows the system's capabilities while you concentrate on defining what you want to accomplish. I'll make some comments for you to consider.

Any suggestions besides this site to continue my learning curve?

That location you "can't get to" with LV? How much you want to bet? :D

Nope :)

You might end up with a mixed system, and with 9 zones to control you will need at least two GEs. But that's not a difficult design issue since GEs talk to each other and the second one can be made to act as a direct extension of the first.

Do you mean Space and GE mixed, or two GE's?

Walk-through lighting (including the stairway) can be handled in an integrated GE (not Spacer) system by defining a scene that brings up the walk-through zone while leaving the other zones untouched, and another scene that takes the walk-through zone down while leaving the other zones untouched. No need for three- (or four-) way wiring.


There is a vast array of wallstations (switches, keypads) for GE, many two-button. Surely some one of them will satisfy... :p

Are there more controls than are shown on the Lutron website?

There are also occupancy sensors that will turn on the lights when you enter a zone (e.g. the stairway) without manual action at all.

I didn't see them on the Lutron site. Did I miss something

For various reasons, target the 3500 series rather than the 3100 or 2000 series, if at all possible.[/QUOTE]

I assume you mean the 3506 vs the 3106, correct?

Hi all,

I just purchased a new Grafik Eye 3104 off of eBay and was shopping around for accessories at a reasonable price and found Hank's Electric Supply at www.hankselectric.com

You might want to give it a try if you need Grafik Eye accessories.

Regards,
TCIII

I purchased my Grafik Eye from Hanks Electric and found them very dependable with good prices.

Hi atver,

Thanks for the response.

Looks like I made a good choice for a supplier of Grafik Eye components.

I purchased a metal four gang wall box, 50 ft of two twisted pair cable and one of the wired SeeTouch keypads.

The SeeTouch keypad is being dropped shipped from Lutron. Will Lutron have me send the keys caps back for engraving since there was no method of specifying what to engrave on the keys on Hank's Electric website?

I plan to do a bench top check out of the Grafik Eye and the SeeTouch keypad before installation in my new home theater.

Regards,
TCIII

[QUOTE=Thomas J. Coyle]Hi atver,

The SeeTouch keypad is being dropped shipped from Lutron. Will Lutron have me send the keys caps back for engraving since there was no method of specifying what to engrave on the keys on Hank's Electric website?

No. They will send you a new front. It's very easy to snap off the original one to replace it with the new engraved one.

The engraving documents are on the Lutron website, and I think it's .30 cents a letter plus a set up fee, the amount of which escapes my feeble memory :D .

Ok, I'm finally getting ready to take the plunge. The one last item I'm struggling a bit with is whether to get the 3106 or the 3506 since I've found at least one internet merchant selling them for the same price. The 3106 is all I probably need for now since I'm not ready to plunk even more money down for the GRX-PRG or GRX-232 to program the 3506. It might be nice to have this option however in the future. My question is whether the 3506 has everything the 3106 has plus more. Just wondering if I'd be giving up anything in the near term by going with the 3506. Appreciate any feedback others might have that considered both units.

I plan on picking up the 3506.

Two Question:

Has anybody posted their lighting layout (diagram) on the forum? If so, got a link?

Lastly, has anyone done business with www.electricsuppliesonline.com ?

My local supplier's prices are through the roof compared to theirs.

Thanks,
Winkelmann

Winkelman,

In my opinion, www.hankselectric.com has better pricing than even www. electricsuppliesonline.com.

Just a thought.

Regards,
TCIII

I just picked up a 3506 from www.dimmers.net On their website they didn't have this model listed but I phoned their customer service number and spoke to JR who was able to get me one at a great price matching one of the other low internet merchants I found. Unit was drop shipped direct from Lutron and took only 2 days to arrive (excluding Xmas holiday & weekend). JR was great to deal with and I also ordered a wallstation from him. They were also the only place I could find the special Lutron cable to wire up a wall station that I could buy by the foot (only needed 35 feet).

Incidently I love the 3506. I'm controlling it from a Harmony 880 remote and the setup is excellent for the money. I opted for the 3506 to give me more fine grain control of the lighting levels (1% increments) and future control from PC should I ever want to get more sophisticated. Cost wasn't that much more than the 3106 I was considering. The unit is nicely designed and built. Installation was relatively easy. I liked that the terminal screws for the wire connections came all the way out faciltating sliding a wire in and then tightening down. Their other dimmers have screw terminals that loosen only and require wrapping a wire around the screw terminal which can be a real pain with 12 guage wire. A 3 1/2 inch deep box is a must. I have the nail on version which is slightly tapered in the back reducing some of the volume.

The 3100 series are also dimmable in 1% incremnts. However since it's display does not reflect that (having only the 6 or is it 7 indicator lights) it's not as easy to work with.

Thank you for all your hard work. This forum is great. One question, what is the purpose of the NTGRX-4M? For turning off all the lights the NTGRX-4S seems to have an "all off". Do I need a NTGRX-4M at the entrance to turn them all on again or can a simply use scene 1 on the NTGRX-4S?

Thank you for all your hard work. This forum is great. One question, what is the purpose of the NTGRX-4M? For turning off all the lights the NTGRX-4S seems to have an "all off". Do I need a NTGRX-4M at the entrance to turn them all on again or can a simply use scene 1 on the NTGRX-4S?

Yes.

Yes.

Huh... which question were you answering?

Could someone tell me if Grafik Eye would work in this scenario and which model I would need.? I want to control the lights in a room in my basement I am turning into a media room. Right now in that room i have 3 light switches side by side on the wall, one controls the sconces(4), 1 controls the front 4 recessed ceiling cans and the other controls the back 2 recessed cans plus the recessed can at the bottom of the stairs just before you enter the room proper( cased opening, no door ). I have another switch there on the wall that used to control the ceiling fan which has been taken down and i plan to use that wiring for some type of rope lighting under the riser.

I'd like to have 4 zones of lighting in the room, each zone matching one of the original 3 switches plus the 4th being the rope lighting and I'd like to be able to just hit a button on my Universal Remote MX-850 and have these zones respond in unison to different levels, i.e. all off except rope lighting at minimal level when I hit play for DVD or all on when I hit stop, etc..

I don't expect to expand beyond the above. Screen is fixed, no windows. It would be nice if there was a way to have a switch at the bottom of the stairs that if I hit it it would turn all the lights on so I could enter room and Find the remote!!

Sorry for being longwinded, I'm new to this and wanted to make sure I gave adequate info.

Thanks,

krfuquamd

krfuquamd,

A Grafik Eye 3104 will work with what you have in mind. It has four zones and a minimum of four scenes. It is designed for a four gang extra deep wallbox.

You can use a SGRX-4S at the bottom of the stairs to turn on the first scene before you enter the room. It is hardwired to the 3104 using a four wire cable.

The 3104 will have to mounted out in the media room where the built-in IR sensor can be seen. Otherwise you can hardwire a GRX-IRI remote IR sensor to the 3104 so the 3104 can be mounted elsewhere.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
TCIII

Thanks TCIII, sounds perfect for what I want to do. Do you recommend a particular place to purchase these items online??

krfuquamd,

I purchased my 3104 off of eBay for a very reasonable price. The selection varies with time. The eBay stores selling the Grafik Eye dimmers and accessories are way over priced!

However, www.hankselectric.com and www.dimmers.net both have very good discount prices on the 3000/4000 series of dimmers and their accessories.

If Hanks Electric does not carry a Lutron Grafik Eye item, they can special order them.

Regards,
TCIII

I'm planning on using low voltage lighting in my lighting scheme. For one of my zones I'll have recessed lights that goes around the room in the soffits. How does this work with a 3104?

Just started researching lighting options.

Anyone have a pic of a Pelv cable ? Also, if I chose to have one wall plate, does the pelv cable connect directly to the wall plate and the wall plate directly to the light ? if so, the wall plate will need its own line rather than coming off the controller ?

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe you can use standard cat5 cable for PELV.

Here's a wiring diagram, in color to boot!

that's great. Thanks

What does the power booster do , and why is it for zone 2 in the diagram ?

I think the booster is primarily for magnetic transformers like those used for some low voltage and florescent light fixtures. But, we don't use florescent for theaters... do we?

no, no...we don't :)

I think the booster is primarily for magnetic transformers like those used for some low voltage and florescent light fixtures. But, we don't use florescent for theaters... do we?In that diagram the booster is NOT for a magnetic transformer. HERE is my original post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6565579&&#post6565579) where I posted the diagram. This booster is to spread the lighting load to more circuits off of the main breaker panel in order to meet local code requirements.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe you can use standard cat5 cable for PELV. While Cat5 will "work", you should check with your local building inspector to see if it is acceptable for your area. See the 4th post in this thread, here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5859219&highlight=electrical+tape#post5859219), for a listing of the part numbers for the correct wire to use.

Has anyone used Grafik Eye to control and dim LED rope light?? I've purchased the 3104 and would like to zone 4 be the rope lighting under the lip of the riser and riser steps. LED rope light appeals to me because it lasts a long time and it generates little if any heat. I called Lutron and they said i needed a LUT-LBX which is needed because the rope lighting pulls such a small current I guess. Does anyone have any experience with this? I could just use incadescent rope lighting but wanted to consider LED if possible. The LED rope I'm looking at is 120V 1/2".

Thanks

krfuquamd

Has anyone used Grafik Eye to control and dim LED rope light?? I've purchased the 3104 and would like to zone 4 be the rope lighting under the lip of the riser and riser steps. LED rope light appeals to me because it lasts a long time and it generates little if any heat. I called Lutron and they said i needed a LUT-LBX which is needed because the rope lighting pulls such a small current I guess. Does anyone have any experience with this? I could just use incadescent rope lighting but wanted to consider LED if possible. The LED rope I'm looking at is 120V 1/2".

Thanks

krfuquamd


I am using a 3106 and it works fine with my blue LED rope light.

Drew

Drew,

Thanks for the response. Did you in fact need a LUT-LBX or any other interface because of the small current the rope lighting pulls?

Kevin

Drew,

Thanks for the response. Did you in fact need a LUT-LBX or any other interface because of the small current the rope lighting pulls?

Kevin


Nope I did not need the LUT-LBX. My rope light was 120v and plugged into a standard receptacle so I wired one to zone 5 of the 3106 and it works great.

Drew

Drew,

Perfect!! That is what I wanted to hear. I just ordered 120v LED rope lighting from novelty lights.

Kevin

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe you can use standard cat5 cable for PELV.
NO, you cannot. Two reasons: 1) It is against code to have a low voltage cable enter the same box as high voltage cable unless the LV cable has the same rated insulation as HV cable. Cat5 does not.

2) PELV is shielded; cat5 is not. cat5 acts as an antenna both transmitting and receiving noise.

Cat5 is designed to be used in a balanced differential circuit. It is NOT for general purpose use.

Perfect!! That is what I wanted to hear. I just ordered 120v LED rope lighting from novelty lights.
You'll believe him but you won't believe Lutron Tech Support? They were right. If you only accept the answer you want to hear, there's no point in even asking the question. Is there?

The Grafik Eye spec is a minimum of 25W per zone. If your rope lights don't draw 25W then you will need the unit that Lutron specified.

I'm planning on using low voltage lighting... How does this work with a 3104?
Depends on the type of LV lighting. For units with a step-down transformer (magnetic LV) you need to do nothing except set the type when you set up the zone.

From the 3100 Installation instructions (which you would do well to read):

"Load Types
The Control Units can control incandescent, halogen (tungsten), magnetic low-voltage, and neon/cold cathode load types. Electronic low-voltage and fluorescent load types can be controlled with an appropriate interface.
* All Electronic Low-Voltage (ELV) lighting used with the Electronic Low-Voltage Interface must be rated for reverse phase-control dimming. Before installing an ELV light source, verify with the manufacturer that their transformer
can be dimmed. When dimming, an Electronic Low-Voltage Interface MUST be used with the Control Unit."

ELV uses a switching power supply like those used in PCs. ELV supplies are typically smaller and lighter than MLV supplies. If you're not sure of the type, ask the manufacturer.

An ELV Interface is a separate box that is wired into the GE.

DMF,

Thanks.

I got my 3106 installed over the weekend. It was a two-box installation plus two power boosters (to allow for using 3 circuits). It seems to be working great!

Question - I have two zones that I am currently not using. Is it ok to have these set to on/off and just keep them off and do not use at all?

There is the min 25W per zone, so I wasn't 100% sure. Though I assume that the 25 W applies to zones that you are actually using.

Thanks,
Mark

I posted this question about lighting and the grafic eye in another section, but got no help. Can anybody in here comment please?

I am about to start building a multipurpose HT room. It is in the basement with concrete walls. I have decided to spend the money on green glue on the ceiling only as I am more concerned with sound transmission to the upper floors as my basement is all underground. I will also insulate the ceiling behind the green glue drywall. Here are my questions:

1. Will I lose a lot or all of the gains from the green glue if I cut in standard 6" recessed lights in the HT area?

2. If so, what kind/brand of lights can I use to simulate a recessed light that is surface mounted?

3. I plan to have basically 3 types of lighting in the HT part of the room; recessed lights, wall sconces and rope lighting (behind crown molding shining on the ceiling and maybe behind the 100" diagonal front projector screen. I want to be able to dim all of these lights and have setpoint scene capability. Do I need a light controller like the graphic eye, or can I control this environment fine by using a gang box of the Lutron maestro IR dimmers with the 4 theme setpoints? I have a single Lutron IR dimmer upstairs and use my Harmony remote right now to control it, so I understand the basics of this setup. At what point should you move up to the graphic eye, or what capability determines the need for that system?

Thanks,

Dave

I just installed a grafik eye in my media room and it's working great. I'm now anoid that I can't dim the light in the stairway and am contemplating installing a Spacer or a Maestro dimmer in this location. Are the IR codes for the spacer or maestro going to interfer with my grafik eye? Also I looked and didn't see anything but do they make a stand alone dimmer that can communicate with the GE through the PELV interface?

Are all the individual lighting circuits addressable with the GE? Ie can you turn on and off each light individually with IR commands that are unique for each circuit? I plan to use a Harmony 880 or 1000 to control everything.

Use insulated ceiling housing because it will reduce the amount of sound let thru. Iris recessed housings are double walled, and very well made, which helps. The maestro dimmers all share the same IR codes so having multiple dimmers in one room is not a great idea (unless you want all of them to do the same thing at the same time). The GE is a good, robust system with excellent tech support.

Hope that helps,
Bill

Question - I have two zones that I am currently not using. Is it ok to have these set to on/off and just keep them off and do not use at all?

There is the min 25W per zone, so I wasn't 100% sure. Though I assume that the 25 W applies to zones that you are actually using.
Yes and yes.

Are all the individual lighting circuits addressable with the GE? Ie can you turn on and off each light individually with IR commands that are unique for each circuit?
No. Each zone is controllable. A zone may consist of one or many light fixtures. Zones themselves are not remote controllable*. The remote selects scenes, or combinations of zone presets.


* Check out the GRX-IRI, an accessory for the 3000 series GE. It provides additional remote capabilities, including remote control of individual zones, if you have a more-capable remote. If you're headed in this direction, use the 3500 series Grafik Eye.

In that diagram the booster is NOT for a magnetic transformer. HERE is my original post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6565579&&#post6565579) where I posted the diagram. This booster is to spread the lighting load to more circuits off of the main breaker panel in order to meet local code requirements.


can someone please help me with this question?

I am new at learning the GE. If what the diagram shows is accurate, and the wiring goes from the GE to the light fixtures, what is the purpose of the wall stations? Is it just to send the command the the GE ? Also, how many fixtures can there be in one zone ?

Please pardon the newbie question to this arena.

DMF,

I have a GRX-IRI and it is designed to work with an IR blaster to allow an IR control system, such as the JDS IRXpander, to control the GE.

The GRX-IRI is wall box mountable and the IR blaster adheres to the back of the module.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
TCIII

neekos,

The wall stations allow you to remotely operate the GE without having to go to the controller panel which may be mounted in an equipment closet.

They mount in a single gang enclosure and can be put at the entrance of a room to manually initiate a lighting scene when entering.

Regards,
TCIII

No. Each zone is controllable. A zone may consist of one or many light fixtures. Zones themselves are not remote controllable. The remote selects scenes, or combinations of zone presets.

Check the GRX-IRI, an accessory for the 3500(?) series GE. It may provide additional remote capabilities.
I think you meant SCENE in place of zone for your post...

Back to Cherokee180, you can iaddress the zones of a 3500 series (aka IA series) Grafik Eye individually through RS-232 protocol if you have the GRX-RS232 or the GRX-PRG PC control (and a controller that can output serial commands).

Also, just to clarify, the GRX-IRI works on any 3100, 3500, MR, or IA series GRX.

neekos,

The wall stations allow you to remotely operate the GE without having to go to the controller panel which may be mounted in an equipment closet.

They mount in a single gang enclosure and can be put at the entrance of a room to manually initiate a lighting scene when entering.

Regards,
TCIII


Thanks Thomas

I think you meant SCENE in place of zone for your post...

Back to Cherokee180, you can iaddress the zones of a 3500 series (aka IA series) Grafik Eye individually through RS-232 protocol if you have the GRX-RS232 or the GRX-PRG PC control (and a controller that can output serial commands).

Also, just to clarify, the GRX-IRI works on any 3100, 3500, MR, or IA series GRX.

I think DMF described it correctly. Individual ZONES are dimmable. A SCENE contains a particular setting for each ZONE.

The standard GE IR interface only allows you to select SCENES.

Using the GRX-IRI you can raise and lower each ZONE and save and recall all 16 SCENES. You also have a master raise and lower and all off control.

Who has a source or a recommended substitute for the structured GE plenum cable? I'm looking for 20 feet.

Winkelmann

ditto

Winkelmann/neekos,

Try www.hankselectric.com/item156207.ctlg

Regards,
TCIII

Stellar!

Thanks

I think you meant SCENE in place of zone for your post... No, I meant that the zone is controllable. You can raise and lower each zone at will, from the front panel or a data interface. You cannot control individual fixtures (as the OP asked) unless you dedicate a zone to each one.

Zones are not individually remote-controllable (without -IRI), which is probably what you're thinking about.

Also, just to clarify, the GRX-IRI works on any 3100, 3500, MR, or IA series GRX. Yes, it will work, but the 3100/MR does not understand the full set of 'Pro IR' commands that the -IRI implements. In the case of individual zone controls, the 3100 does understand them (I had to look it up), so you are more nearly correct than I was. :)

Hope this helps.
Yes. Thanks.

One'a these days I'll add one to my system. The only cooler accessory is the GRX-PRG with its astronomical clock.

how many fixtures can there be in one zone ? That depends. On a basic GE, each zone can handle 800W, so the number of fixtures can be anything that has a total rating less than 801W. Add a power booster to the zone and can have many more.

However, local building codes may limit the number of fixtures. I don't recall where it was, but one guy recently told about the local code restricting the number of fixtures to 10 per breaker. That would 10 total on a GE with a dedicated breaker! (You can get around it with power boosters and more breakers.) Check the code first. Chicago and New York areas are notorious for abnormal electrical codes.

I bought a 500 ft spool of the cable made for 4000 series GX, but only used about 50 ft. I'll sell by the foot for $0.30/ft. It works fine with the 3000 series also.

Where is a good source for the GRX-PRG?

Does anyone know if the GRX-CIR-WH accepts the advanced codes that the GRX-IRI does? I want to use a Harmony 800 pointed at a GRX-CIR-WH, but like the idea of being able to control individual zones...

This may have been discussed, but, damned if I can find it. I couldn't track down the masonry box mentioned on the first page. So, will the gangable steel boxes work? The GE instruction manual recommends a 7.9" wide box; four gangable boxes are only 7.5" wide.

Winkelmann,

Try this: http://www.hankselectric.com/item156206.ctlg

Regards,
TCIII

Thanks again Thomas. But, the box is even a smaller width than what I found locally.
FYI, Hanks might have better prices on supplies, but, their shipping prices are the highest I've ever encountered - I'm talking ten times higher. In fact ground shipping for 100' of the wire you recommended was more than double the price of the wire. No thanks Hanks. :eek:

I have found the best box is the Raco 698 for the 4 gang applications and the 697 for the 3 gang applications. Any local electrical supply haouse should have them or could get them.

This may have been discussed, but, damned if I can find it. I couldn't track down the masonry box mentioned on the first page. So, will the gangable steel boxes work? The GE instruction manual recommends a 7.9" wide box; four gangable boxes are only 7.5" wide.


I used gangable boxes and they worked fine. I don't think the extra room on the side would have really helped. I wish they would have been a little deeper but there was nothing I could do about that.

Winkelmann,

At $.32/ft for the wire, that means that Hanks wanted to charge you $64.00 to ground ship 100 ft of the four conductor cable?

I purchased 50 ft of the four conductor cable and one of the four gang boxes and shipping was around $12 which is about normal for UPS ground.

My GE fit just fine in the four gang wall box from Hanks and I had plenty of room for all of the wiring entering the box.

Strange!

Regards,
TCIII

To be exact $39.53 (S/H). :eek:

I got the 698 at Fox Electric Supply for less than $18...foxelectricsupply.com

Shipping was 7.50

Mark

Hello All,

After reading this thread, I have decided to incorporate a GRX-3506 in to my (under construction) home theater. I would like to control all my lighting through the use of a theater PC, with the Main Lobby Software. However, I am left a bit confused about how exactly to hook up my PC to the Grafik Eye. I understand that I first need to purchase a GRX-3506 seeing as how I want to control my lighting via PC and I need to control 6 zones.

What confuses me is what unit I need to go from the GE to the PC. As I read there are two options.
1.)GRX-RS232
2.)GRX-PRG

The way I’m reading it the GRX-PRG as the ability to control zones as well as scenes, where as the GRX-RS232 can only control scenes.
Additionally, the GRX-PRG has astronomic clock built in, where as the GRX-RS232 does not.

Seeing as how I don’t really need to control individual zones, nor do I really have a need to use the astronomic clock I guess I would rather save the bucks. However if someone can post a list identifying what each can and can’t do I may be swayed to purchase the GRX-PRG.

On the other-hand I could be Completely Wrong in my understanding of the GE.
Either way I need some help finding the right direction.

Thanks in advance for all the assistance,
Mark

Some additions.

Lutron's Spacer system can perform most of the same basic functions as Grafik Eye, but there is little cost advantage and installations of even moderate complexity can become unwieldy. It is rumored that Lutron will soon replace or retire the Spacer system.

Other Grafik Eye series (4000, 5000, 6000, 7000) are designed for commercial or large-scale installations and should be considered for HT only by a professional.

I think the MSRP on the 3506 is $1150.

To add PC and RS-232 interfaces to the 3500 series one needs the GRX-PRG for about $800. It combines the RS-232 interface with a real-time clock so that the 3500 control unit can be programmed by a PC (Lutron has lighting control programs) and scheduled like a timer. One GRX-PRG can be used with up to 8 control units.

Grafik Eye can be ordered in many standard colors. Special finishes such as bright brass or satin chrome can be had for an extra charge and a wait of 4-8 weeks. Faceplates are replacable, but cost $80-150.
I have an opportunity to get a Lutron 4116 on clearance for less than $200. That's significantly less than I can get any of the 3000 series Lutrons for, so I'm wondering if the comment about it being for commercial applications and needing professional installation was in order to use all of the capabilities it can provide.

I'm not wanting to hook this unit up to other control units, etc. I actually just want to use 4 zones and hook up the lighting directly to the unit. Basically, I'm hoping to "dumb this unit down" to the level of a 3104. Does anyone know if that is reasonable / possible?

You do not want to purchase a 4000 series Grafik Eye. By iteself, it is useless. It needs to be connected to a remote dimming panel (GP series, etc.) for it to actually do anything.

Stick with the 3100 series.

Also, any rumors about Lutron deciding to abandon Spacer system are news to me...

Rick S

Thanks for the info, CEDIAdude. I'm glad I asked first!

Grabbed a 3104 off e-bay at a price less than I thought the 2403 would be. There was a 3106 up at nice price also. Hope there is no fine print to that deal.

dc_pilgrim,

I bought a new 3104 off of eBay a while back for about $200 off of the list price and have had no problems with it.

Though I did rig up a test fixture with four loads to check it out before I permanently installed it in my home theater.

Regards,
TCIII

They occasionally show up on eBay. There's a grey market in over-orders and replacements on commercial jobs.

mainstreetshowroom.com lists them for $580.

So, my 3106 was installed during the original construction and now I'm coming around to add the 1" insulation along the lower part of the wals and 1" batting on the top part.

Of course, the 3106 is mounted flush with the drywall, so what have others done in this case? Clearly I can cut the batting/fabric around the Eye and leave it recessed, but I'm not too keen on the looks of that.

Is there such a thing as a 4-gang extention box?

TIA

I think there are extension rings to most boxes, but which one you need depends on which box you used. Try to find that out.

Or perhaps the better part of valor is to cut into the wall and move the box forward on the stud. You don't even have to do the drywall repair well since it will be hidden.

If you used the standard deep masonry box it thould just be screwed to the stud from within the box. Turn off the power remove it from the box and take a look.

Bill

I have a 3106 and am using 4 of 6 zones for my home theater and 4 scenes. I want to add the hall lights to the system as a new zone and a new scene for them to only be on, but have already completed my wiring thus making this a "retro" install.

Currently, I have 3 switch locations for the halls lights. I have a 4-way switch located at the base of the stairs, and two 3-way switches at either end of the hall. (with the theater at one end of the hall)

Pie in the sky setup would be I could turn on the hall lights (a new scene with only the hall lights turned on) AND\OR set the "entrance" scene in the home theater from any one of the 3 hall switches as well as from the 3106. (i.e. be able to set multiple scenes from the new wall switches)

Real world (minimum desire) would be I can turn on and off the hall lights from the 3 hall switches AND the home theater located base unit. (i.e. the wall switches would only be able to set 1 scene, and the hall lights would be that 1 scene)

Before I go and purchase items, I was hoping to get some confirmation here in regards to the best way to implement the new control\zone and which accessories I should get to do that plan. Once I have a setup and know which accessories I need, I can then get into the age old "how to wire" questions.

Thanks all for the help!

I think you'll need to use wallstations in place of the three switches, meaning 1) you will need to drop data cable to the switch boxes, 2) remove the existing NM from switch boxes, 3) run NM directly between the 3106 and the light(s)), 4) provide auxiliary power to the data bus.

This assumes, of course, that the 3100 has a "not affected" setting for each scene's zone mapping so you can toggle the hall lights without affecting the other zones. I'll have to check to be sure. Edit: Yeah, you can. See page 8 of the GE installation manual.

If you use fixed-time events in your lighting control system, you may be affected by the recent change to Daylight Saving Time (DST). Affecteds systems are those with a real-time clock, including Homeworks, Orion, RadioRA with Chronos, and Grafik Eye with accessories GRX-PRG, GRX-IA-PRG, GRX-ATC, or GRX-AV-RS232/ATC.

Lutron has several fixes for the DST change. If you are programming (or can program) the system with software such TCWin or Liaison, the fixes involve relatively simple settings changes. If you don't use a PC, Lutron has something they can send you. Not sure what it is, but it's free.

Go to the Lutron Service and Support page (http://www.lutron.com/cms/default.aspx?appid=1025) and click the 'Daylight Saving Time' pulldown.

I think you'll need to use wallstations in place of the three switches, meaning 1) you will need to drop data cable to the switch boxes, 2) remove the existing NM from switch boxes, 3) run NM directly between the 3106 and the light(s)), 4) provide auxiliary power to the data bus.

This assumes, of course, that the 3100 has a "not affected" setting for each scene's zone mapping so you can toggle the hall lights without affecting the other zones. I'll have to check to be sure. Edit: Yeah, you can. See page 8 of the GE installation manual.


So which wallstations should I consider? I am not certain which wallstation would allow me to control the theater lights from the hall switch. (IF that is even a possibility)

Also, you say "NM"...is that standard 2-#12 or is that the special Belikin cable I have read about?

I will look up page 8 as well and see if I can understand a bit more.1

NM is non metallic sheathed electrical cable. Determine wether you've been using 12 gauge or 14 gauge and get the appropiate length of 12-2 or 14-2 cable with ground to connect from the GE to the hallway light as DMF stated.

You should be able to use NTGRX-4S or the SG-4S-NL as wall stations that allow you to select scenes, obviously you would have to make your hallway light one of the scenes.
Check out the link below for the GE accesories. They also have wall stations with IR so you can select more than 4 scenes. What's fustrating is how expensive the wallstations are.

http://lutron.com/grafikeye/grx_acc.asp?s=&t=

Gotcha....NM is what I have been using. And since I powered my 3106 with 12-2, I will run a new feed using 12-2. (DMF pointed that code requirement out to me several months back)

Also, thx for clarifying which wall station I would use. I wasn't certain if I could use the 4S or needed the 4M.

So in a nutshell:

1) Run light power from the 3106 (connected to a new zone)
2) Install three new 4S's
3) Run a Belkin wire from the 3106 to each of the 3 new wall stations (not sure exactly how to connect...but I will read up on that install manual)

Thx again for the help.

'NM' : 'Romex' :: 'facial tissue' : 'Kleenex'. :p

You can use just about any wallstation. I'd gravitate toward the SeeTouch controls (SG-4S-) because they are internally lighted. A button label kit can be ordered as a future enhancement. If you can get a real deal on different wallstation, go for it since upgrading them is dead easy.

Daisy-chain the data cable. That's two ends into each wallstation except the last. Both pairs get hooked into the terminal plug, and the bare wires - the shield drain wires - are connected to each other but to nothing else.

The 3106 will power three wallstations or other accessories. See p.12 of the installation manual. I suggested the external supply because you have one already, don't you?

Be sure to remove the NM from the switch boxes. Leaving it there, even if it's dead, violates code. You can cut back to the sheath and just push it up into the wall.

NM is Romex...got it. ;)

:o No external power supply. I don't have any other accessories at the moment...so do I need it?

The only other thing I would some day add would be a contact closure for drapes.

Oh, and I still need to get the IR function working so I don't have to get up to hit the lights. :D

Looking on eBay right now. 90$ for the NTGRX-4S

Gonna keep looking for any better deals.

No, you don't need it (yet). All it is is a 12VDC wall wart capable of supplying 50ma per accessory (up to 16). GRX-12DC does that, but I think list price is $75. You can get a big one at RS for $18 and cut the plug off. (The 12V lead is not rated to enter a power box, so don't bring it in to the 3106 box.) It will need a socket, most conveniently on the same circuit as the GE, and running the lead down into a wallstation box is easier while you're also running data cable. But if you will add an accessory that doesn't live in a wall, you can add the power supply from there.

I started looking into what it takes to add shade control. Definitely not as simple as adding a GRX-AV, as you'll find out. It really depends on the nature of the shade controller. Lutron's more recent stuff looks easier (and cheaper) to implement.

I was talking to Lutron this Monday (I was leaking current from one of the MUX wires to the foil shield :( ) when the rep mentioned that they are coming out with a new G.E. that incorporates shade control!! I didn't think to ask when, sorry.

Bill

The newer 3000s - actually been on the market for a about a year? without a number change - incorporate Sivoia shade controller as a load type. (Dang controllers are mucho expensivo, though, so I wasn't considering one (would have to get a new GE too).)

Did you find the cause of the leak? How did you figure out that was happening? What were the symptoms? I Am Curious Yellow.

The newer 3000s - actually been on the market for a about a year? without a number change - incorporate Sivoia shade controller as a load type. (Dang controllers are mucho expensivo, though, so I wasn't considering one (would have to get a new GE too).)

Did you find the cause of the leak? How did you figure out that was happening? What were the symptoms? I Am Curious Yellow.

The new ones (GS series) are NOT out yet... but they are now on the Lutron site.

I have an early production beta sample next to my desk. I am off to the elec supply house to pick up a 4 gang masonry box so I can dive in and see what's cool about it.

Mine does not have any shade controls built in, but there are expansion slots under the lower portion of the lid.

I noticed it in passing, but just took a closer look. (It's listed as GS in some spots and QS in others.)

Wow! :eek: This is a major product upgrade! It essentially combines a GE 3500 with a GRX-PRG and a shade controller, plus a couple of new features.

• astronomical timeclock is integrated
• front-panel USB port to connect to a PC
• direct shade control, without interfaces
• direct wired IR connection
• direct connection to occupancy sensor
• new (nicer) information display with more info
• back-lit internal controls
• seeTouch™ front panel controls
• accepts external contact closures
• new power modules
• up to 100 zones and 100 devices in a system
• 30 wonderful colors

Here (http://lutron.com/CMS/Assets/GrafikEye/PDF/367-1302a_GRXGS.pdf) is a link to the slick for you lurkers.

Rick, doesn't the QS/GS(?) line seem more like Homeworks® than GRAFIK Eye®? I can see them selling a TON of them in California with Title 24 now.

I can't talk about it... yet.

It is definitely GS series, and the new prefix if GSG, in place of the previous generation's prefix of GRX.

Thanks for the link DMF. This is a major upgrade!! The next ? is how much will this raise the price? Also I wonder it the "regular" 3100's , if they are still offered, will now come with see touch buttons and the IR input.

I need a quick reccomendation on which unit I need and where to get a good price. I'll list the various lights in my theater by zone.

1). Mains
2). Soffit Tray (Rope Lighting)
3). Behind Screen Wall
4). Stage Arch
5). Sconces

I think I need the GRX-3506 this would allow me to have an extra zone. All of the above are incadencant, except for the Rope Light. I want to be able to control all of the zones and have control over schemes. So with that said, which model should I get and were are some good sources? I'd like to get the Bright Nickel with a Translucent Cover.

Does anyone have a pic of how they mounted the RACO 698 masonry box? I picked mine up this weekend and I'm a little uncertain how to mount it. Do you just drill throught the side of it and put two screws in or what?

Thanks!

Nick

That's what I do. Or if everything is coming in the top (or bottom) you can set it on a cross-ways 2x4. Or use a box hanger if you have the depth. Don't forget to allow for the thickness of your wall - at minimum the sheet of drywall.

I can't talk about it... yet.

It is definitely GS series, and the new prefix if GSG, in place of the previous generation's prefix of GRX.

Rick,

Is this the same as what's labeled the Grafik Eye QS on the Lutron site? Do you have any information on where or when to find these and expected cost? Thanks,

-Ryan

Hi ,

I tried searching the thread, but came up empty on this topic.
If I wired the input/hot for the GE with 12ga Romex. Do I have to wire the zones with 12ga also or can I use 14ga ?

Just ordered the GRX-3104 with the GRX-IRI. It will control 4 zones of lighting:
Zone 1 - cans
Zone 2 - sconces
Zone 3 - switched outlet for Line voltage rope lighting (dimmable)
Zone 4 - Switched outlet - on/off for Star Ceiling tiles.

Lutron says it will work. Anyone know differently? I am wiring my 18Ga Class 2 wiring tomorrow for the IRI > GE control cable.

Thanks in advance!

James

...If I wired the input/hot for the GE with 12ga Romex. Do I have to wire the zones with 12ga also or can I use 14ga ?Use 12ga to the zones.

Use 12ga to the zones.


Thanks ScottJ0007 !!

I can't talk about it... yet.

It is definitely GS series, and the new prefix if GSG, in place of the previous generation's prefix of GRX.

Any news on these new units? I saw them announced back in January, but haven't heard a peep since then.

I just purchased my GE 3104 w/4 scene remote and wall station on ebay new for 410.00. I have my 4 gang masonry box 3.5in deep and Im ready to start the wiring. I understand that I need 2 twisted pair of 18 ga. wires to run from the GE to the wall station. Im planing on using 2 ea. single pair twisted cable taped together. My question is- Does the twisted pair that operates the scenes located in connection points #3  need to be shielded? The cable I have is tray cable with a thicker pvc cover. Will this work?
Thanks

Don't know if it will work; never tried it. But it won't meet code unless you're using 600V electrical tape inside the main box.

Of course, whether it will work or not is not the only question. Like any unshielded data cable it will radiate high-frequency noise that might or might not interfere with other things in the area.

I need a quick reccomendation on which unit I need and where to get a good price. I'll list the various lights in my theater by zone.

1). Mains
2). Soffit Tray (Rope Lighting)
3). Behind Screen Wall
4). Stage Arch
5). Sconces

I think I need the GRX-3506 this would allow me to have an extra zone. All of the above are incadencant, except for the Rope Light. I want to be able to control all of the zones and have control over schemes. So with that said, which model should I get and were are some good sources? I'd like to get the Bright Nickel with a Translucent Cover.


I looks like the GSX-3506 can be programmed by computer, but the 3106 can't that's the major difference.

dc_pilgrim,

I bought a new 3104 off eBay a while back for about $200 off of the list price and have had no problems with it.

Though I did rig up a test fixture with four loads to check it out before I permanently installed it in my home theater.

Regards,
TCIII
I also bought my 3104 and wallstation off ebay and was hooked up about a week ago and have had no problems with it.

Hopefully I will not have a problem either. I talked to the techs at lutron about the cable requirements to control the wall station. I was told that the 3000 series only needs 2 pair of 18ga. twisted wire without the shield. The 4000 series needs to be shielded. The installation manual confirms this via there beldon cable recommendations for the 3000 series. I should start the wiring tomorrow.

I looks like the GSX-3506 can be programmed by computer, but the 3106 can't that's the major difference.
It's not that simple. Both can be programmed, but neither directly - you need an interface, usually GRX-PRG.

The main difference is that 3500 has a much larger command set than the 3100, making programming much more useful.

Not sure if this was covered or not, but I found out tonight that the Lutron IR remote lightswitch from Home Depot works with the grafikeye 3106. The off button turns everything off at a 15sec interval (no matter what) and that using the single up/down switches on the side of the remote, turns all zones up and down one step at a time. Kinda handy for those of us who don't have our HT remotes yet.

Now a question.... what do you guys do to prep for drywall installation? I can't remove the grafikeye or there will be no light, but I don't want the workers to ruin it... any ideas?

Nick

Remove it and install a temporary switch with all your zone switch legs tied together. No point in taking any chances.

I have a couple of questions about the GRX-IRI. Can anyone post a picture of placing a GRX-IRI. I am a little confused as to whether this goes in a different box then my 3104 or how exactly you place it. Second is when I am connecting this into a system with two 3104's, do I daisy chain from the IRI to the first 3104 then to the second 3104? Lastly, I am going to be using a MRF-300 for the IR blaster. How exactly would this connect with the IRI? It looks like the MRF-300 has two spots on the back for a 3 cable connection, not 4 cables like the IRI uses. Thank you so much for anyone in advance that can help me with this.

Anthony

IRI goes in a separate box. Have you ever seen a picture of it? No way it fits in the same box. Look here. (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/GRX_IRI.pdf)

All components of a 3000 system live on a data bus. You daisy-chain them all together. The order isn't important.

The IR emitter sticks to the back of the IRI unit. There are no cable connections (for the emitter).

Look at diagrams 40, 42, and 50 of this document (http://www.lutron.com/technical_info/catalogs/204-227%20Wiring%20Diagrams.pdf).

I am looking at getting the new QS seiries what do you think of these prices I can get from a local dealer in MN? Good deal or rip off? I know they are lower then MSRP but i am having a hard time finding the QS series online.

QSG-6P120-SN-TSN= $680.00
Main Unit

QSWS2-5BI-SN-EGN
5-Button Wallstation = $143.00

QSWS2-5BRLIRI-SN-EGN
5-Button Wallstation with Infrared Receiver and Raise/Lower = $165.00

GRX-81T-WT = $110.00

I ahve no idea if that's a good price, page1, since I haven't seen the new QS series for sale anywhere yet. It seems pretty reasonable, though. I think I paid $425 or so for my 3106 (nearly-new of the bay) and the new models have a bit more funtionality.

Those prices are reasonable. On a par with 3500 series a couple years ago. Actually, I'm pleasantly surprised that they're not higher.

Exception: The prices for Lutron's remotes are and have always been outrageous.

For those familiar with the GE, the QS series has a different model numbering scheme. Here (http://lutron.com/CMS/Assets/GrafikEye/PDF/QS_Reference_List.pdf) is a PDF with the model numbers and line descriptions.

I agree $110 for a remote that ONLY controls lights is high. What remote are people using to control their A/V and Lutron Lighting, i am mostly interested in its Lutron compatibility?

Also i am looking for a good place or member to buy PELV (Class 2) wire? I don't need 500'. Any suggestions. (I Know there was one in the beginning of the thread but i wanted know if there is a newer POC)

Thanks!

page 1,
I have just over 400 ft of Liberty wire it is designed for the Lutron grafik Eye. Liberty part number is Lutron-GRN. I will sell by the foot. If your interested email me for details.

sieberlf - you have a pm

Rick,

Is this the same as what's labeled the Grafik Eye QS on the Lutron site? Do you have any information on where or when to find these and expected cost? Thanks,

-Ryan

Greetings to all..

What started out as GS morphed into a QS prefix. Please never ask why - it is a loooong story. So yes, the new unit is QS.

Several new features have been introduced, and it IS shipping now. However, one feature that nobody has picked up on is that there are now over 1000 different color combinations available between the plate, accent stripe, and button colors. Most cool of all is the ability to use our online visualizer to see what it will look like before buying a multi-color unit. Click on http://www.lutron.com/cms/default.aspx?appid=1009# and follow the embedded link on the right side of the page. Let me know what you think!

PS We have no current plans to discontinue any of the existing units, in case any of you were wondering...

I am looking into getting the RadioRA system for my home theater. My question is:

1. What is the difference between master controller and grafikEye RA?

2. If I use the master controller do I still need to use GrafikEye and vice versa?

3. I am assuming that either using the wall controller of GrafikEye, I still need to have a dimmer or switch for each zone. Is that correct?

thanks

Can someone dumb this down for me a bit? In looking at the Lutron diagram, it looks like after the last in a series of lights, it has to go back to the breaker panel? ("to distribution panel").

Hopefully I am reading this wrong and I can run power from a new breaker into the Grafik Eye, then chain to each fiture stopping at the end like this...


BREAKER---->Grafik Eye---> Zone 1---> lamp--->lamp---> lamp (done)
.......................................Zone 2---> lamp--->lamp---> lamp (done)

Is that how it is set up or do I have to do something after the final lamp in the chain?

Can someone dumb this down for me a bit? In looking at the Lutron diagram, it looks like after the last in a series of lights, it has to go back to the breaker panel? ("to distribution panel").

Hopefully I am reading this wrong and I can run power from a new breaker into the Grafik Eye, then chain to each fiture stopping at the end like this...


BREAKER---->Grafik Eye---> Zone 1---> lamp--->lamp---> lamp (done)
.......................................Zone 2---> lamp--->lamp---> lamp (done)

Is that how it is set up or do I have to do something after the final lamp in the chain?

That's how it is done. Remember, Lutron recommends 2 two wire for each zone (no three wire with a shared neutral for the zone outputs).

I asked this in a seperate thread, but i think I should have asked it here....

I know theres no way to sensibly put a standard outlet for regular use at the end of a dimmable recessed lighting chain, but what if I was to chain two outlets at the end specifically for the soffit rope lights, which are getting dimmed anyway?

I have 11 recessed 3" halogen lights getting connected to one of a two line Grafik Eye. I was planning on using one zone for the wall sconces and the other for the recsessed lights and put the rope lights at the end of the chain so they dim together.

What do you guys think about this?

Lutron makes specific dimming outlets with a male prong which protrudes into the mating power cord end. This ensure that the only devices that can be plugged into this outlet are intended to be plugged into it.

If you ever plug anything but a light into that outlet, major issues could spring up quickly!!

Vacuum cleaners, fans, radios, televisions, etc. are examples of devices that would be DOA within a minute or so on a dimmed outlet. These are MANDATORY on HomeWorks projects where we set dedicated lamp outlets to be controlled by the centralized lighting control system.

In that application, the receptacles are either wall mounted or mounted on floor boxes under tables. As you could imagine, it would not be uncommon to have a housekeeper unplug a lamp from a handy receptacle to run a vacuum or something. This is why these dedicated receptacles exist.

Say you have a standard outlet for a projector, and a dimmed outlet nearby where the rope light is terminated.

If there is a breaker trip, and the next homeowner decides to re-route the projector to the "other" outlet where the rope light is plugged in.
When the movie starts and the lights go down, so does that projector!!!

Anytime you install an electrical device into your home, you have to think long term... You will not be the only person using it over it's installed life.
Electrical code enforces this.

Order up the dimming receptacles and mating power cord ends.

See page 3 of this document...
http://www.lutron.com/pdfspecs/novatb.pdf

The "duplex for dimming use" model has two receptacles with the protruding prong, and the "half for dimming use" is a split receptacle where one half is connected to a dimmer (with the prong), and the other half is a standard receptacle on another circuit.

Ok, so im leaning towards purchasing a grafik eye, but alot of this discussion is over my head.
i have 4 lighting zones to control, each of these zones has a switch in the front and back of the room. I plan on putting the grafik eye in the front of the room, and a 4 scene switch in the back. This is a new construction so all walls are still open for the next week or so.

So, is this all i need for installation?
grafik eye controller (either 3104 or 3504)
NTGRX-4S switch
4-gang box for the controller
PELV-MUX wire from controller to switch

at current state, the switches are wired up however an electrician would normally do it...
If i understand correct, the only thing i need to add is the LV wire from the controller to the switch, am i on the right track?

Ok, so im leaning towards purchasing a grafik eye, but alot of this discussion is over my head.
i have 4 lighting zones to control, each of these zones has a switch in the front and back of the room. I plan on putting the grafik eye in the front of the room, and a 4 scene switch in the back. This is a new construction so all walls are still open for the next week or so.

So, is this all i need for installation?
grafik eye controller (either 3104 or 3504)
NTGRX-4S switch
4-gang box for the controller
PELV-MUX wire from controller to switch

at current state, the switches are wired up however an electrician would normally do it...
If i understand correct, the only thing i need to add is the LV wire from the controller to the switch, am i on the right track?

It looks right to me. The only thing I would change look at is making sure the IR reciever is in a position to work from your seating position. That way when you set up your remote you can control the lights.

Have been waiting to get a black 3104, but couldn't pass up an inexpensive white one on Ebay recently and thus purchased it.

Does anyone have any experience in spray painting the white to a black color? Any suggestions on how to do it? Is it even possible to take the white cover off and easily paint it? I haven't received it yet so not sure what's possible and what isn't.

Thanks.

Have been waiting to get a black 3104, but couldn't pass up an inexpensive white one on Ebay recently and thus purchased it.

Does anyone have any experience in spray painting the white to a black color? Any suggestions on how to do it? Is it even possible to take the white cover off and easily paint it? I haven't received it yet so not sure what's possible and what isn't.

Thanks.

If it is the matte finish it should be no problem. Otherwise you can always order a cover.

Have been waiting to get a black 3104, but couldn't pass up an inexpensive white one on Ebay recently and thus purchased it.

Does anyone have any experience in spray painting the white to a black color? Any suggestions on how to do it? Is it even possible to take the white cover off and easily paint it? I haven't received it yet so not sure what's possible and what isn't.

Thanks.

so you're the one that outbid me on ebay yesterday morning! :p

Did I say Ebay - errr, I meant Yahoo Auctions, yeah that's the ticket!

Just got my GRX-2402 and in looking at the installation I am unclear on one thing.

I see the screw terminals for Line 1 out and line 2 out HOT, but nothing for the Neutral wire being run to all the lamps. Do i just pigtail the neutral wire from both lines along with the neutral from the line coming in from the box and connect it to the neutral in of the 2402? Does the ground wire from both lines alse get attached to the 2402's ground screw?

I also see it doesn't come with a remote. Do I need to buy one or will it be in the logitech database when I buy the 890?

Just got my GRX-2402 and in looking at the installation I am unclear on one thing.

I see the screw terminals for Line 1 out and line 2 out HOT, but nothing for the Neutral wire being run to all the lamps. Do i just pigtail the neutral wire from both lines along with the neutral from the line coming in from the box and connect it to the neutral in of the 2402? Does the ground wire from both lines alse get attached to the 2402's ground screw?

I also see it doesn't come with a remote. Do I need to buy one or will it be in the logitech database when I buy the 890?

All the neutrals get connected together with a pigtail coming off for connection to the GE, same for the grounds. It does not come with a remote, I think they figure most people won't need it.

Hello,

I was thinking about purchasing a 3106 for my HT but recently came across the newer QS series Grafik Eye. Do you think the QSG-6P120 would make a reasonable replacement? From what I understand I'd be able to plug an IR blaster from my Harmony remote straight into the unit rather than getting a separate IR unit for the 3106. I'm also using a RA-AS to control the stairwell lighting leading down to the theater. Since I'm fairly new to this, I'd appreciate any advice on this potential setup.

Hello,

I was thinking about purchasing a 3106 for my HT but recently came across the newer QS series Grafik Eye. Do you think the QSG-6P120 would make a reasonable replacement? From what I understand I'd be able to plug an IR blaster from my Harmony remote straight into the unit rather than getting a separate IR unit for the 3106. I'm also using a RA-AS to control the stairwell lighting leading down to the theater. Since I'm fairly new to this, I'd appreciate any advice on this potential setup.


The QS is really meant more for controlling shades and lighting. I don't think you are getting your money's worth using it just for lighting.

The QS is really meant more for controlling shades and lighting. I don't think you are getting your money's worth using it just for lighting.

Don't forget there are quite a few new addtions and changes in the qs:

From: CEPro.com
-20 percent less deep than the rather chunky standard model, which should make it easier to install. And it now comes in 30 color and finish combinations.

-The panel now features an IR input so integrators no longer need to stick an emitter on the front panel to operate the system with a third-party controller.

-It also provides a contact-closure input for connecting to an occupancy sensor or other trigger device.

-In a nod to the green movement, the front LCD panel reads out not only the status of lights and shades, but the amount of energy that is being saved—in real time—by dimming the lights.

-Lutron also has added a new set of “master override” buttons that can be used to temporarily raise and lower light levels of a complete scene.

-An astronomical clock has also been added to the Grafik Eye, allowing integrators to set schedules for activating scenes.

The QS is really meant more for controlling shades and lighting. I don't think you are getting your money's worth using it just for lighting.

The cool features mentioned by page1 is precisely why I'm considering the QS, but I will I be losing any features as compared to the 3106? Also does anyone use a Grafik Eye with the RA-AS?

This might not be the best place to ask this, but here goes:

Are all dimmers alike?

If I have a Control 4 system and I want to dim fluorescents (they only have standard dimmers) Could I use a Lutron FDBI and Lutron HiLume ballast between my C4 dimmer and dim the flourescents?

It seems to me if you were to connect a C4 dimmer to the Lutron FDBI and a Lutron ballast you could do fluorescent dimming because the output of a Lutron dimmer and a C4 dimmer ought to be the same, right? Has anybody tried this?

This discussion is WAY WAY over my head I need advice on controlling 3 sets of lights in one room Pots, Wall sconces, and rope lights on stairs all in one room in existing construction Thanks for the help in advance.

This discussion is WAY WAY over my head I need advice on controlling 3 sets of lights in one room Pots, Wall sconces, and rope lights on stairs all in one room in existing construction Thanks for the help in advance.

Get the Grafik Eye 2403. Chain all the sconces to one zone. Chain all the rope lights to the second zone and the all the "pots" to the 3rd zone.

You can then set up to 4 "scenes" with a combination of those lights dimmed/on/off as you like. You may want to have an electrician install it if you arent comfortable as the Grafik Eye can be a bit tricky if you arent up on your hot, neutral and ground pigtailing. ;)

I got the 2403 for a very similar situation (scones, hi hats and rope light). Hope that breaks things down for you a bit.

Get the Grafik Eye 2403. Chain all the sconces to one zone. Chain all the rope lights to the second zone and the all the "pots" to the 3rd zone.

You can then set up to 4 "scenes" with a combination of those lights dimmed/on/off as you like. You may want to have an electrician install it if you arent comfortable as the Grafik Eye can be a bit tricky if you arent up on your hot, neutral and ground pigtailing. ;)

I got the 2403 for a very similar situation (scones, hi hats and rope light). Hope that breaks things down for you a bit.


Yes thank you greatly. :D

Got my Lutron system and installed it I am greatly satisfied thanks for all the help.

Searched around and couldnt find much on this issue so i wanted to post and see if anyone has the same proble.

I have the 4 zone unit,

Zone1: Can Lights (around the room)
Zone2: Can Lights (in front of the screen)
Zone3: Can lights (behind the perforated screen)
Zone4: Rope Light (around the soffit, 120V LED)

All are wired correctly, my friend is a professional electrician so I know it was wired properly.

If i turn off one of the zones the bulbs in that zone flicker constantly (they are off but they still flicker on a little bit)...like a small trickle of electricity is still going through the wires. It happens to any of the 4 zones or multiple zones at the same time. If i turn all the zones off they do not flicker any more.

Any ideas?

I had some LED bulbs in there and a few of them actually burned up (visibly fried). I'm now using compact flourescents.

Searched around and couldnt find much on this issue so i wanted to post and see if anyone has the same proble.

I have the 4 zone unit,

Zone1: Can Lights (around the room)
Zone2: Can Lights (in front of the screen)
Zone3: Can lights (behind the perforated screen)
Zone4: Rope Light (around the soffit, 120V LED)

All are wired correctly, my friend is a professional electrician so I know it was wired properly.

If i turn off one of the zones the bulbs in that zone flicker constantly (they are off but they still flicker on a little bit)...like a small trickle of electricity is still going through the wires. It happens to any of the 4 zones or multiple zones at the same time. If i turn all the zones off they do not flicker any more.

Any ideas?

I had some LED bulbs in there and a few of them actually burned up (visibly fried). I'm now using compact flourescents.

I think you'll find that the compact flourescents don't like the trickle of electricity. You'll burn those out fast too...I'm no expert though...

Have you set up your load types in the program mode? This is where you tell the GE zone 1 is fluorescent (which can't be dimmed with out an interface) etc.. I don't recommend fluorescent in home theater rooms. They have poor color rendering and are difficult to dim. Also I am unaware of any LED's that are 120v or are "rope light". Your typical rope light that plugs in with no transformer is not LED.

Bill

The Grafik Eye spec is a minimum of 25W per zone. If your rope lights don't draw 25W then you will need the unit that Lutron specified.

Great thread. Could somebody point me at the spec docs for the 3106 that mention this 25w value? I've been trying all day to find a mention of the minimum value, but without success. I'm in Finland so "calling lutron" requires an international call, so I'd prefer to exhaust all online sources before that step...

Have you set up your load types in the program mode? This is where you tell the GE zone 1 is fluorescent (which can't be dimmed with out an interface) etc.. I don't recommend fluorescent in home theater rooms. They have poor color rendering and are difficult to dim. Also I am unaware of any LED's that are 120v or are "rope light". Your typical rope light that plugs in with no transformer is not LED.

Bill



Well i have the 2404 model and it doesnt appear that i can specify the load types on it.

Im only using the CF's because i dont like "yellow" light, and i only have those particular lights on before the movies begin. Sure it would be nice to dim them but i like the 6500k colored bulbs better.

The rope light i bought is supposed to be LED and its super bright and requires no transormer. It was very expensive for rope light but i wanted super bright and this is the stuff that was recommended to me.

http://www.ccl-light.com/docs/indoor/rope/led/led/index.html (i have the blue)


So do you think if i upgraded to the 3000 series GE and specified non-dimmable zones that would solve my problem?

Thanks for your reponses.

Is the installation of the GRX-2404 the same as the 3000 series? I can't find the manual for the 2000 series on the Lutron site, which is very strange. The 2404 is on order and I just wanted to give my installer the instruction manual for how to run the wiring.

Could somebody point me at the spec docs for the 3106 that mention this 25w value?

What? You don't trust me? :o

Don't forget there are quite a few new addtions and changes in the qs:

From: CEPro.com...

-An astronomical clock has also been added to the Grafik Eye, allowing integrators to set schedules for activating scenes.

This is a HUGE upgrade. The GRX-PRG you need with the earlier series costs as much as a 3000 series GE all by itself.

And remember that if you want to program it, the QS has a USB port to plug directly into your PC. (That's another feature that was approximated by the GRX-PRG, using RS-232 (serial) instead of USB.) Oddly, though, I find very little mention of it in the docs.

Given the prices I've seen for the QS series, I don't see a downside.

Is the installation of the GRX-2404 the same as the 3000 series? I can't find the manual for the 2000 series on the Lutron site, which is very strange. The 2404 is on order and I just wanted to give my installer the instruction manual for how to run the wiring.

Strange, I can't find any either.

The 3000 can't be much different than the 2000. Afaik, the only difference is that the 2000 lacks the low-voltage interface.

Given the prices I've seen for the QS series, I don't see a downside.It seems that not many retailers are selling the QS series yet though.

I wish they'd put an RF on these instead of IR, i cant hit it with IR unless i turn around :(

Anyone found a workaround besides running an eye over there and trying to get it into the box so its not visible?

I'm hoping to use an IR blaster mounted across the room to hit the IR eye. SpeakerCraft has a system I'm probably going to use.

I wish they'd put an RF on these instead of IR, i cant hit it with IR unless i turn around :(

Anyone found a workaround besides running an eye over there and trying to get it into the box so its not visible?

Grafik RA (http://www.lutron.com/radiora/products2.asp#GRAFIKRA)

RA-GRXI (http://www.lutron.com/radiora/products2.asp#Grafik)
Setup Guide (http://www.lutron.com/radiora/instruct/044003A.PDF)

It seems that not many retailers are selling the QS series yet though.

Not many of the online dirtbags are selling them yet....

I know of at least three Authorized Lutron Dealers who spend a lot of time here, and answered countless Grafik Eye threads...
Then a couple of us banded together to compile them into this thread, and continually kept on top of it to make sure that the users here are AVS would have a resource to go to...

In addition to copy/paste from a few other threads, we spent a ton of our own time finding and posting photos, posting links to Application Notes and manuals, and generating HTML tags to make it as easy as possible to follow....

Basically, go to the first page or two...
Dennis Erskine at Design Cinema Privee, Alan at Audible Solutions, or I would all be happy to help you pick out a new QS Series Grafik Eye and whatever accessories you need.

I have done some Lutron horse-trading with DMF to get him the See Touch keypads he wanted, and I am sure he would be happy to vouch that I am fair to deal with.

Send any of us a PM with any questions.

We don't generally compete against each other, so don't expect to contact all three and see a price war.
If I quote you a price, I will CC Dennis and Alan on the reply out of courtesy.

In addition, AV Science (who hosts this whole thing) are listed as a Lutron dealer...
You could always PM Alan or David as well.

I'm hoping to use an IR blaster mounted across the room to hit the IR eye. SpeakerCraft has a system I'm probably going to use.

Using flood blasters is an acceptable plan, but you need to know that it is the least reliable.

Direct button presses, or MUX communication is best, followed by an IR emitter under (or on) the panel, and then line-of-sight IR from a remote or a floor emitter. The chance for a failed command is doubled when you are relying on an IR repeater network which itself relies on line-of-sight IR to receive the signal in the first place.

You may want to get a couple of those IR flood blasters and have them in different areas aimed toward the GRX. Basically, anywhere where you can easily get the wire. Even if there is one significant obstancle to pulling the wire directly to the wallbox, you can still extend the leads and place the blasters somewhere where they will have a decent line of sight.

The primary reason I like to use two (when I can't choose a better method) is that at least a couple of the lighting commands are generally in a macros...

If there happens to be a party guest, kid, dog, UFO, etc. between the blaster and the GRX, it will not receive the command and the lights will not fade down (as in a "start movie" macro), or come back on (as in a "pause movie" or "clean up" macro).

If there are two blasters coming at the GRX from different angles, then the second blaster may hit it if the first one is blocked...

Another consideration, if this is a living space or media room and there are windows, be sure that sunlight does not fall on the face of the GRX.

It will basically "jam" the IR receiver in most cases, and it ios very likely that the receiver will not be able to distinguish the IR signal from a control system vs. the spurious infrared light from the sunlight.

Strange, I can't find any either.

The 3000 can't be much different than the 2000. Afaik, the only difference is that the 2000 lacks the low-voltage interface.

The 2400 series looks and wires the same as the 3000 series, except the 2400 doesn't have a MUX connection (as you clearly pointed out!).
Other than that, you still want to use the deep metal boxes, and you still need a 2 gang for a 2 zone, a 3 gang for a 2 zone, and a 4 gang for a 4 OR 6 zone.

The only secondary keypad control for the 2400 series is the NT-GRX-1S Entrance Control, which gives Scene 1 and OFF only, you only get the 4 scenes and All off, and also the fade times are fixed.

The decision to choose the 1S control, as well as the other differences between the 3000 and the 2400, are clearly outlined on the first page of this thread.

These and a few other reasons are why this series is the cheapest GRX, but that is just fine for many people!!

Just know what you are buying, because many sellers just take the money and don't bother to help you figure out what it is that you are buying.

I just had my Grafik Eye QSG-6P120 installed and I love it. On the strength of the recommendations here, I chose it over the GRX-3106 so thanks to everybody that helped. I don't think it makes sense to buy the 3106 anymore. I'm able to control the unit with direct IR from my Harmony 890, but does anyone have any advice on how to to control it via the hardwire IR ports and the wireless extender? I tried simply cutting off the IR ends, stripping the ends and placing the two wires in the provided IR ports of the Grafik Eye and the minijack into the RF extender, but this doesn't seem to work. Any suggestions as to what cabling I should be using? Any help greatly appreciated.

I am installing a few GE's around my house during a major remodel; "I" am the contractor. :o

For the downstairs hall I need to install a GRX-3x03 (1 or 5). When I read the Grafik Eye thread a couple of months ago, someone posted information about an electrical box in which to install the 3x06. The box was larger (wider) than normal and needed a mud ring. Well, that box worked perfect! Plenty of room to set the ganged neutral wires on one side and the ganged grounds on the other with plenty of room for the hot leads. Perfect..., well, almost perfect, except for the mud ring being for 5/8" sheetrock instead of 1/2", but why quibble. It is most certainly MUCH better than the plastic box my electrician used for the 3106 in my media room when he installed it for me a couple of years ago. There is NO room in that box. Now "I" need to figure out how to replace it from the rear when I have that wall open.... :eek:

Anyways...

I searched and searched the thread for a similar recommendation to use with the 3x03. Would anyone know the model numbers for the two parts (box and ring), if such creatures exist?

Thanks...

Oh, in case anyone cares: :D

3106 + 3102 for the master bath (stored in an adjacent closet) controlled by the 18 (or is it 15) button NTGRX remote station IN the bathroom and another 10 button remote station in the master bedroom next to the door to the bathroom.

3106 in the media room

3104 in the dining room

3x03 in the downstairs hall (stored in a remote closet) controlled by a ???? at both ends of the hall.

3x06 in the kitchen (planned) with at least 4 remote stations.

3x06 in the family room (planned)

3x06 in the new addition (planned) with at least two remote stations)

Again, while I have anyone's attention...

Before I start buttoning up the walls, I need to purchase some PELV wire to connect the remote stations to the GE's in question. I read recommendations for Lutron, Belden and Liberty as suppliers. Is there any difference between them? Is one "better" than the other or recommended over the others? Although I am price sensitive, spending a couple of dollars extra now for something "better", or provides "something" extra down the road, is not an issue.

Thanks for ALL the information. It has come in useful many, many times.

"Lutron used to, but no longer sells a GE that can be supplied by two different circuits. If the wiring load on the GE exceeds the 1800W (approx) limit of a 15A supply, then a 20A supply must be used. If the load exceeds a single 20A supply, then external power boosters (NGRX-PB) can be used to offload zones. (The power booster is rated at 2000W, so 12,000W can be dimmed by a single 3x06!) Each power booster may have its own supply."

This can still be special ordered from Lutron, however it doesn't change any of the specs on the GrafikEye it only allows you to feed from 2-circuits.

Also the Interconnect Cable for most residential uses needs only be rated 300v, for commercial uses over 250v it should be 600v rated. You will find somewhere in the NEC all wire in the same box that is not seperated/divided must be rated at the highest available voltage.

Otherwise great source for general GE info. Love your scene anology.

New Grafik Eye QS series are shipping, so you'll hve more to add t the confusion of this. I sell and stock a lt of the items mentioned here so feel free to contact me (paul@hankselectric.net)for any Lutron or Regular Electrical Items I also have the Belden and Lutron wire by the foot on my website hankselectric.net

Question then, can I find the correct cable for interconnecting a GRX-CIR-WH 18-2 or 18-4 at Home depot or at lowes. If I understand correctly it needs to be CL2 and rated at either 300v or 600v. I only need at the most 10 - 20 ft. Thanks

Well, I went to Lowes during lunch and on their board in the wire cutting section they had rj600 18-2 listed which is rated at 600v unfortunately it stated not available in this area. I asked a guy in the department and he said that it means that they don't sell it by the foot. When I showed him what I wanted from the board he said "oh that's basically lamp wire, it's rubber wrapped wire" I replied that it needed to be CL2 rated though. He replied that he didn't have it available. Someone have some of the Belden or other alternatives available?

Ooops just saw you last sentence spiwrx :p

I have about 230 ft of Liberty wire catalog number Lutron-GRN left over from my project. I would be willing to sell it by the foot at $0.30 per foot plus shipping.

Thanks for the offer sieberlf,

I might need a masonry box too, so it might be easier to go through spiwrx. If not I'll be in touch via pm. Thanks again.

New Grafik Eye QS series are shipping, so you'll hve more to add t the confusion of this. I sell and stock a lt of the items mentioned here so feel free to contact me (paul@h.net)for any Lutron or Regular Electrical Items I also have the Belden and Lutron wire by the foot on my website h*.net

Paul, whether or not you are aware of it, this post is in violation of this forum's rules.

Are you a Dealer/Retail/Trunk Slammer or Installer??
No mentioning of sales. Do not play the game, I have this projector coming in this week or sitting in inventory. Or I have this hanging in my store. This lets people know you are a dealer in a about face way which translates to sales. Do not post a signature promoting your business.

Also, having a blatant solicitation on your third post here is a bit tacky.

People like Dennis, Alan, and I built this thread as a resource, and we do not openly and obviously solicit sales... When you do, it isw the forum equivalent of walking into another home center, standing in the electrical aisle, and handing out your business cards.

AV Science sells Lutron products and the wire, boxes, and accessories needed to install it, as do the people who created this thread and answered the design, installation, and control system interfacing questions on these components for years.

I am installing a few GE's around my house during a major remodel; "I" am the contractor. :o

For the downstairs hall I need to install a GRX-3x03 (1 or 5). When I read the Grafik Eye thread a couple of months ago, someone posted information about an electrical box in which to install the 3x06. The box was larger (wider) than normal and needed a mud ring. Well, that box worked perfect! Plenty of room to set the ganged neutral wires on one side and the ganged grounds on the other with plenty of room for the hot leads. Perfect..., well, almost perfect, except for the mud ring being for 5/8" sheetrock instead of 1/2", but why quibble. It is most certainly MUCH better than the plastic box my electrician used for the 3106 in my media room when he installed it for me a couple of years ago. There is NO room in that box. Now "I" need to figure out how to replace it from the rear when I have that wall open.... :eek:

Anyways...

I searched and searched the thread for a similar recommendation to use with the 3x03. Would anyone know the model numbers for the two parts (box and ring), if such creatures exist?

Thanks...

Oh, in case anyone cares: :D

3106 + 3102 for the master bath (stored in an adjacent closet) controlled by the 18 (or is it 15) button NTGRX remote station IN the bathroom and another 10 button remote station in the master bedroom next to the door to the bathroom.

3106 in the media room

3104 in the dining room

3x03 in the downstairs hall (stored in a remote closet) controlled by a ???? at both ends of the hall.

3x06 in the kitchen (planned) with at least 4 remote stations.

3x06 in the family room (planned)

3x06 in the new addition (planned) with at least two remote stations)

Again, while I have anyone's attention...

Before I start buttoning up the walls, I need to purchase some PELV wire to connect the remote stations to the GE's in question. I read recommendations for Lutron, Belden and Liberty as suppliers. Is there any difference between them? Is one "better" than the other or recommended over the others? Although I am price sensitive, spending a couple of dollars extra now for something "better", or provides "something" extra down the road, is not an issue.

Thanks for ALL the information. It has come in useful many, many times.

GREENGA,
While this will certainly work, tying that many GRXes into a patched whole house lighting control is not really considered a best practice anymore.

10 years ago, that was one of the few options that existed, but today a combination centralized/wallbox whole house system offers a lot more flexibility. In addition, these systems offer a significantly cleaner design from the aesthetic standpoint, with fewer multi-gang wallboxes in the living areas.

From the standpoint of pricing, the multiple GRX configuration is only cheaper in small systems. The dedicated whole house options such as Lutron's HomeWorks, RadioRa, LiteTouch, Vantage, CentraLite, etc. are options which a good integrator could implement for the same or less money.

If you are programming this yourself, and plan to create many whole-home scenes which travel across multiple GRXes, you will soon realize the benefit of having a PC programming that can easily address any load into any scene and access through any keypad location.

This thread was invaluable to me. Thanks to everyone that posted. It makes Lutron's site and the manual look like a joke.

I did have trouble trying to get a 3 1/2" 4 gang masonary box, and ended up using 4 1 gang boxes (interconnected). Worked out well with no problems.

I do have a question. I have read probably 80% of this thread but not the whole thing and apologize if this has been asked. I am running 21 lights in my theater, with GU10? Halogen bulbs. 18 controlled by my Grafik Eye. The amount of heat from these lights seems ridiculous. I have been seeing LED replacement bulbs for $10 a pop and am really considering them. Will my GRX-3104 work properly with an LED load? I thought I had read that the GE needs at least a 25w load per zone to function properly but can't seem to find the information or even if that spec is correct. Here is my set up:

Zone 1: 10 lights
Zone 2: 8 lights
Zone 3: 4 Sconces/Flame lights
Zone 4: 2 Seating lights

Thanks, Ross

This thread was invaluable to me. Thanks to everyone that posted. It makes Lutron's site and the manual look like a joke.

I did have trouble trying to get a 3 1/2" 4 gang masonary box, and ended up using 4 1 gang boxes (interconnected). Worked out well with no problems.

I do have a question. I have read probably 80% of this thread but not the whole thing and apologize if this has been asked. I am running 21 lights in my theater, with GU10? Halogen bulbs. 18 controlled by my Grafik Eye. The amount of heat from these lights seems ridiculous. I have been seeing LED replacement bulbs for $10 a pop and am really considering them. Will my GRX-3104 work properly with an LED load? I thought I had read that the GE needs at least a 25w load per zone to function properly but can't seem to find the information or even if that spec is correct. Here is my set up:

Zone 1: 10 lights
Zone 2: 8 lights
Zone 3: 4 Sconces/Flame lights
Zone 4: 2 Seating lights

Thanks, Ross

I was curious about the LED bulbs too. I have 3" halogen cans that use bulb (i think) MR16. Im curious if they dim properly with the grafik eye.

As far as the minimum wattage, i guess you could always leave one halogen 50w in the chain, that would take care of the minimum wattage if it works.

Correction... I think I have the same 3" can lights. MR16 bulb rang a bell and I believe my lights use the same bulb.

I was curious about the LED bulbs too. I have 3" halogen cans that use bulb (i think) MR16. Im curious if they dim properly with the grafik eye.

LEDs are solid state devices, and use a "driver" in place of a transformer on a traditional low voltage lamp or a ballast on a fluorescent lamp.

There are four basic types of drivers, some drivers can be dimmed, some cannot. And there are different methods required for the different driver types...

Confused? Don't fret, so is everyone else.

Lutron has a document on LED dimming, and this is a great place to start your research:
http://www.lutron.com/applicationnotes/app138.pdf

Make sure the manufacturer signs off on the lamp being dimmed BEFORE you connect it to a dimmer.

Since there are so many potential variables, consult with Lutron tech support as well as the support staff for company making the lamps to ensure that you are implementing your lighting control correctly.

As far as the minimum wattage, i guess you could always leave one halogen 50w in the chain, that would take care of the minimum wattage if it works.

It's not a good idea to mix load types on a single zone.

Lutron makes a device called the LUT-LBX which is a "synthetic" minimum load interface, which allows low wattage loads to be dimmed even when they are below the minimum dimmable load.

http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/LUT-LBXspec.pdf

PLEASE report back with the results of your LED experiments.
There are numerous companies offering LEDs, and this is a HOT topic in the lighting control World right now.

GREENGA,
While this will certainly work, tying that many GRXes into a patched whole house lighting control is not really considered a best practice anymore.

10 years ago, that was one of the few options that existed, but today a combination centralized/wallbox whole house system offers a lot more flexibility. In addition, these systems offer a significantly cleaner design from the aesthetic standpoint, with fewer multi-gang wallboxes in the living areas.

From the standpoint of pricing, the multiple GRX configuration is only cheaper in small systems. The dedicated whole house options such as Lutron's HomeWorks, RadioRa, LiteTouch, Vantage, CentraLite, etc. are options which a good integrator could implement for the same or less money.

If you are programming this yourself, and plan to create many whole-home scenes which travel across multiple GRXes, you will soon realize the benefit of having a PC programming that can easily address any load into any scene and access through any keypad location.


NOW you tell me... :(

I've been working on this for some time now and that is probably why the patchwork approach. Knowing where I was headed, whenever I saw a GRX/Ra, or wall station, go up on eBay, I would buy it and add it to the collection until I got to the room in question.

If I were starting from scratch at this time, I would go with something like Homeworks or the like. At this stage, I am in too deep to change direction. Perhaps in my next house. Now I need to get my hands on some of the Lutron-GRN (is it...?) or some equivalent.

And I am going to do the programming myself. (wish me luck :) )

Oh yes... To the original reason for posting. I found the appropriate Raco box, and mud ring, for the 3103's.

I am giddy with my GE! Still haven't explored all the possibilities yet. I had no problem with fitting it in the box (which I thought was going to be difficult due to posts I had read in this thread).

Here is a small video that I put in my construction thread of the GE at work. Poor quality picture, and some artifact (blue lights blinking), but you get the picture, uhh video.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k181/mbgonzomd/th_4d2427d7.jpg (http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k181/mbgonzomd/?action=view&current=4d2427d7.pbr)

I am currently in the wiring phase of my home theater. I was intially going with Maestro IR.
After reading this thread I am begining to question this decsision.
Here is what I have;
O O O
O I
O I
O O O

2
2

Zone 1 O = 460W 6 wall sconces\2 cans (need on\off and adjble fade rate)
Zone 2 I = 100W 2 cans above seating (need on\off and adjble fade rate)
Zone 3 I = 200W 2 cans hall way outside theater (need on\off)

Zone 2 will need 2 location dimmers

I have pronto pro TSU9600 remote with wifi extender and ir emitter outputs.

I was going to use 3 Maestro ir dimmers located on opoosite sides of the wall to eliminate IR crosstalk. However this drive me to use 3 seperate IR ports on my extender. Total cost $200

Thanks For any help you can give me

I don't think you will be able to eliminate the IR beams from affecting dimmers you don't want them to. So even though it is alot more for the GE it will be a much neater, worry free install.

Bill

What I dont understand is why cant the individual dimmers be controlled? For instance Grafix Eye 2000, 3 zones, 4 scenes. What if I wanted to control each zone independently? That would require 8 scenes.
If I buy the 3000 series I would need a wall stations for each zone. Is there a better way?

What I dont understand is why cant the individual dimmers be controlled? For instance Grafix Eye 2000, 3 zones, 4 scenes. What if I wanted to control each zone independently? That would require 8 scenes.
If I buy the 3000 series I would need a wall stations for each zone. Is there a better way?

You can control each zone independently. The zones on their own dont count for a scene. A scene is just when you group the 4 zones together, say putting zone 1 on 10%, 2 on 30% etc.

To clarify, I use a MX-850 and a Harmony. I can hit dim all, bright all. Thats not a scene. I can turn any zone on or off, and adjust brightness. Those arent scenes.

Then I can also use the scences. My first scene is for before a movie. Stage lights on full, general cans on 50%, readling lights on 50%, sconce lights on full. Then I hit "Movie" scene (scene 2). All zones dim down to 0 over about 30 seconds. "Reading" scence turns on the cans above the seating.

The only time you need separate wall stations is if you want to have access to the lights other than the main unit, without using a remote, such as a control by an exit door. The wall stations act the same as the 5 buttons on the outside of the main unit. There is off, and 4 scenes.

Ross
If you look at the IR commands for Grafik Eye basic commands it list
SCENE OFF ,SCENE 1,SCENE 2,SCENE 3,SCENE 4,SCENE 5,SCENE 6,SCENE 7
SCENE 8,SCENE 9,SCENE 10,SCENE 11,SCENE 12,SCENE 13,SCENE 14,
SCENE 15,SCENE 16,MASTER LOWER,MASTER RAISE

If you add on the GRX-IRI you also get
ZONE 1 RAISE,ZONE 2 RAISE,ZONE 3 RAISE,ZONE 4 RAISE,ZONE 5 RAISE
ZONE 6 RAISE,ZONE 7 RAISE,ZONE 8 RAISE,ZONE 1 LOWER,ZONE 2 LOWER
ZONE 3 LOWER,ZONE 4 LOWER,ZONE 5 LOWER,ZONE 6 LOWER,ZONE 7 LOWER
ZONE 8 LOWER,SAVE SCENE

I have seen any IR code for ZONE 1 ON\OFF, ZONE 2 ON\OFF, etc
Do I need the wallstation per zone for that?
If all I needed was the Grafik Eye, that would be great.
Then I could use a 2 button companion swithes for 3 way.

Ross
If you look at the IR commands for Grafik Eye basic commands it list
SCENE OFF ,SCENE 1,SCENE 2,SCENE 3,SCENE 4,SCENE 5,SCENE 6,SCENE 7
SCENE 8,SCENE 9,SCENE 10,SCENE 11,SCENE 12,SCENE 13,SCENE 14,
SCENE 15,SCENE 16,MASTER LOWER,MASTER RAISE

If you add on the GRX-IRI you also get
ZONE 1 RAISE,ZONE 2 RAISE,ZONE 3 RAISE,ZONE 4 RAISE,ZONE 5 RAISE
ZONE 6 RAISE,ZONE 7 RAISE,ZONE 8 RAISE,ZONE 1 LOWER,ZONE 2 LOWER
ZONE 3 LOWER,ZONE 4 LOWER,ZONE 5 LOWER,ZONE 6 LOWER,ZONE 7 LOWER
ZONE 8 LOWER,SAVE SCENE

I have seen any IR code for ZONE 1 ON\OFF, ZONE 2 ON\OFF, etc
Do I need the wallstation per zone for that?
If all I needed was the Grafik Eye, that would be great.
Then I could use a 2 button companion swithes for 3 way.

Sorry if I added any confusion. When I stated turn any zone off and on, I should have said...raise or lower any zone independently. The lowest setting is effectively off and fade up from there to full on. On my harmony the buttons to control each zone are labeled light 1 light 2 light 3 light 4. The scenes are labeled scenes 1-14. I don't use any wallstations, but you may be able to use wallstations to simply turn a zone off and on... someone else will have to chime in.

Ross
So you must be using the GRX-IRI to raise and lower scenes?

Now its getting exspensive.
Grafix 3106 $485
3 remote wall switches 3 x 150 = $450
Im up to $935
Add GRX-IRI thats another $80
This doesnt include wiring between Grafix and wall stations.

Is this what everyone is doing?

Isnt there a better way?

Now its getting exspensive.
Grafix 3106 $485
3 remote wall switches 3 x 150 = $450
Im up to $935
Add GRX-IRI thats another $80
This doesnt include wiring between Grafix and wall stations.

Is this what everyone is doing?

Isnt there a better way?

You only need wall stations if you want manual control other than the GE front panel. My room has two entrances. I have the GE mounted near one door and a wall station near the other door so I can control the lights manually when entering through either door. I use the GRX-IRI to allow full IR remote control off all zones and scenes.

Someone mentioned LED bulbs up a couple pages so i thought i'd post my experience:

I tried LED bulbs on my GE and they all burned out within a 6 months...they were supposedly dimmable bulbs and werent very cheap so i was pretty bummed that they didnt work out.

Secondly, im thinking about swapping out my 2xxx series GE for a newer one, what does the QS add over the standard 3xxx series? I've read a few posts in this thread but the posts might have been pre-release since some of the links dont work.

Thanks

I'm installing a 3506 in a 12" Fypon PVC column. I had to trim the Raco adapter plate about 1/8" on each side to get it to fit inside the column. The open in the adapter plate sits inside a hole I cut in the face of the column. The column wall is about 5/8" thick. It used short screws and "liquid nails" adhesive to secure the plate to the column. The column is mounted on a double 5/8" sheetrock wall. The column is about 6" deep so the GE sits about 2" off the sheetrock wall.

Here is my question: do I really need to install the metal Raco box behind the GE? :confused: The GE mounts securely inside the adapter plate.

I have two 3506 GEs linked together. The first GE is located in the rec. room. It has three wall stations daisy chained to it (one wall station located by each of the two rec. room entrances, the third wall station on an opposite corner of the rec. room near a pool table. The rec. room GE is located in the poker area, not far from the the entry to the HT. The second GE is located inside the HT (it has no wall stations). The two GEs are connected with a GRX-IRI in the middle. I plan on using the IRI with my IR repeater system. I know the two GEs communicate, because when I select scene 1 (all zones, full on) on any GE or wall station all the lights come on full in both the rec. room and HT. Also when I use the master raise/lower or off buttons both GEs adjust together.

From what I've read, the buttons on the front of the GE are locked into scenes 1-4. If anyone knows of a way to modify these buttins I'd be interested.

My plan is to reassign the scenes on the wall stations in the rec room from 1-4 to 5-6. This will enable me to control the rec room lights without adjusting the HT lights. I'm trying to figure out how to program the dip switches on the GXR-IRI so I can control each room indepent of the other when using a universal remote. Based on my research it looks like I need to assign each GE a seperate number (e.g., A1, A2, ect.). However when I do this, the two GE don't appear to communicate any more. For example, I set the HT GE to A1 and left the rec. room GE as the default A-. If I then select scene 1 from any GE or wallstation the HT GE does not respond but the rec. room GE does. I would have thought that it would have given me a defeult scene 1 (all lights full on) until I modified scene 1 on the HT GE.

If any one has any experience in this, please give me some ideas (or point me to where this is previously discussed if I missed in when scanning the thread).

Second, I haven't been able to get the IRI to respond directly to the Lutron remote. In other words, when both GEs were set as A-, if I pointed the lutron remote at the IR reciever on the IRI and sent a command, nothing happened. I assumed this is becasue I needed to assign numbers to the GEs and then set the dip swithced on the IRI, which is why I adjusted the HT GE to be A1. I stopped messing with the IRI when I noticed that the two GEs didn't appear to be communicating anymore.

Thanks

Im ready to wire my 2403 and I'm a little confused. Based on the diagram:

The neutrals (black) from lines 1,2 and 3 go to each independent zone's terminal.
The hot (white) from the box goes to the "hot".
The neutral from the box goes to the "neutral"
The ground is obvious.

The part I don't get is, what happens to the hot (white) lines I have coming in from each zone? The diagram is unclear about that and desnt even show them.

Thanks for the help.

Im ready to wire my 2403 and I'm a little confused. Based on the diagram:

The neutrals (black) from lines 1,2 and 3 go to each independent zone's terminal.
The hot (white) from the box goes to the "hot".
The neutral from the box goes to the "neutral"
The ground is obvious.

The part I don't get is, what happens to the hot (white) lines I have coming in from each zone? The diagram is unclear about that and desnt even show them.

Thanks for the help.

I think normally the blacks are considered HOT and White is considered neutral. I don't have this unit yet but I think you conect all the White(neutral) wires together, and the black(hot) wires going to the varies zones connect to the to zone X(1-3) out.

Please double check this info though please.

Brian

I'm installing a 3506 in a 12" Fypon PVC column. I had to trim the Raco adapter plate about 1/8" on each side to get it to fit inside the column. The open in the adapter plate sits inside a hole I cut in the face of the column. The column wall is about 5/8" thick. It used short screws and "liquid nails" adhesive to secure the plate to the column. The column is mounted on a double 5/8" sheetrock wall. The column is about 6" deep so the GE sits about 2" off the sheetrock wall.

Here is my question: do I really need to install the metal Raco box behind the GE? :confused: The GE mounts securely inside the adapter plate.

This isn't a question for a forum, this is a question for your electrical inspector or a qualified electrician familiar with the restrictions in your area.

Is that "adapter plate" a low voltage ring or an actual electrical box rated for high voltage devices??

The Grafik Eye is a high voltage device, these things can get HOT, and PVC produces toxic fumes when it burns...
Don't mess around and create something that is not safe.

Just hooked up my 2403 and love it! The installation was so easy with the extra deep masonary box.

If there is any issue I am having, its that the 1st halogen sconce on my sconce chain buzzes when dimmed, but not the other sconces. Strange.

The adapter plate is line voltage (not low voltage) -- its the Raco style which is discussed many pages back. I'm pretty confident that the additional back box on the Raco will not do anything to seperate/insulate the GE from the column. The GE has been running for several days (8 hrs/ day) while work is going on in the HT. There is no sign of any heat issues. This is probably a pretty good test, since I wouldn't expect the GE to run for such long periods during normal use. I appreciate your concerns and I agree -- safety is always a priority. [BTW, I did have an electricain install the GE. I was just wanting to get other opinions, becuase my first reaction was to question why the back box was not installed.] I'll make sure the inspector looks at it.

Does anybody have an issue with there rope light still being dimly lit even when that zone is not on. I've tried to turn it down all the way but I still see a faint glow from my led rope light. As soon as i turn the Grafix Eye completely off then it does shut off.

Any idea's

Where do people buy Grafik Eye equipment? I see relatively few on line retailers, and with poor selection. Lutron's site 'where to buy' finder points me at a ceiling fan store 20 miles away. Actually, looking for generic 'grafik eye' I'm finding more, I guess it was just the QS qualifier that was limiting things. Is the QS not really available much yet? Any pointers to where to get the QS online?

(edit: I see now references in earlier posts to going through AVS, DE, or Audible Solutions [can't find the website for that one])

Also, I've been thinking 3106 but might go QS if it's easier to install (shallower in the box). Has anybody actually installed both the old style thicker and the thinner QS that can comment on if it makes much of a difference?

Im ready to wire my 2403 and I'm a little confused. Based on the diagram:

The neutrals (black) from lines 1,2 and 3 go to each independent zone's terminal.
The hot (white) from the box goes to the "hot".
The neutral from the box goes to the "neutral"
The ground is obvious.

The part I don't get is, what happens to the hot (white) lines I have coming in from each zone? The diagram is unclear about that and desnt even show them.

Thanks for the help.
Rob,
The feed coming into the box has a hot (black) and a neutral (white). Then you have three switch legs which go to the loads. The switch legs (black) will land on loads 1-3. The neutrals (white) will alll wirenut in with the feed neutral and with a (6") tail that will land on the neutral in terminal.
Be sure the power is off. Grafik Eyes are very expensive and if you miss wire them they will fry. You may want to invest in a contractor...
Lisa

Does anybody have an issue with there rope light still being dimly lit even when that zone is not on. I've tried to turn it down all the way but I still see a faint glow from my led rope light. As soon as i turn the Grafix Eye completely off then it does shut off.

Any idea's
You can try adjusting the low-end trim. In programming mode go to 'LE', then adjust the dimming so that the rope is about 20% lit. This cuts out the low end of the dimming cycle. If that doesn't solve the problem I've heard a floerescent interface will work, but I haven't tried it. If you don't need the rope to dim you can set it as a "first on - last off' load, progamming mode 'LS' then set zone so that the top 5 LEDs are lit. (this one I know works...)
Lisa

I'm throwing out a summary of my lighting control plan, hoping for any input. Please point out any obvious issues or pointers.

I can think of 6 zones for my HT right now:
- cans
- light-shelf rope light
- riser stair light
- spot on wife's chair (for knitting)
- spot on equipment in back

I'm planning to get a 3106 (willing to go QS if anyone can point out the advantages)

The GE will be in the wall in the front left of the room. I have full walk in access to the attic behind that wall. The HT has one entrance, back left. I'll have a wall control to the right of the entrance.

I'll mount two metal 4-gang boxes in the left front, one facing into the HT with the GE mounted on it, one above it, facing out into the walk-in attic space. The two boxes will be connected with four short stubs of metal conduit. I'll run short runs for all the six zones from the GE box to the second box. I'll bring all my loads to the second box and connect up there. All the HV stuff will be done with romex.

(The main driving force behind the dual box, front of room approach is ease of installation and ease of change as I rearrange lighting over time.)

I'll run liberty lutron-grn low voltage cable out of the GE box (not through the second box with the loads) over to the entrance controller.

I plan to have my main IR receiver in the front of the theater by the screen feeding one or more IR transmitters in the back right for my equipment. My hope is to position another IR transmitter off the same receiver facing the GE, either across the room facing it, or hacked into the GE as mentioned in some earlier posts.

My purchase list:
- 3106
- see touch wall controller (tbd)
- lutron-grn cable
- several 4-gang boxes (big ones, as mentioned on page 1 of this thread)

Will I need stranded wire for the short runs between the two boxes? Since I'm doing no wire-nuts in the lower box, I'm assuming crowding won't be an issue and romex will work for the short runs.

Thanks for any tips, and thanks for this thread, it's been a great help.

(I posted this yesterday, but it appears to have been lost... Reposting)

Can anyone summarize the advantages of a 6 zone QS over a 3106?

In my room:
- I don't need shade control
- I don't need clock/calendar based control

Is the QS newer/better/easier-to-use or more future proof?

(I posted this yesterday, but it appears to have been lost... Reposting)

Can anyone summarize the advantages of a 6 zone QS over a 3106?

In my room:
- I don't need shade control
- I don't need clock/calendar based control

Is the QS newer/better/easier-to-use or more future proof?

Paul,

Bear in mind I don't own either of these, but I'm leaning towards the QS. I think the biggest reasons are for the IR input on the back, so you can get your remote hooked up to an IR eye elsewhere in the room (different from the front plug on the 3106.) This seems like enough of a benefit already - I really don't want to route my IR to the front of the 3106.

The other benefit is the USB port for programming. I don't know how to program the unit or what software is used, but I'm hopeful it is accessible to the consumer.

-Ryan

Paul,

Bear in mind I don't own either of these, but I'm leaning towards the QS. I think the biggest reasons are for the IR input on the back, so you can get your remote hooked up to an IR eye elsewhere in the room (different from the front plug on the 3106.) This seems like enough of a benefit already - I really don't want to route my IR to the front of the 3106.

The other benefit is the USB port for programming. I don't know how to program the unit or what software is used, but I'm hopeful it is accessible to the consumer.

-Ryan

Ah, I had missed those. Thanks!

I can't see a need for PC connectivity in my case, but I would love an IR extender running to the back of the QS. I'm planning on having an IR receiver at the front of my HT driving my equipment at the back, and my QS will be on the side.

Does anybody know what kind of IR wired connection the QS takes? Since that wire is going into a high-voltage box, I assume the wire has to be rated 600V... Does it have to connect to a specific Lutron IR receiver, or can some other standard IR extender work?

Anybody know what software is used to connect up to the USB port?

I think I understand this, but I want to check:

If I order a SeeTouch 4 button QS controller, does the price ($150+) include the price of engraving the buttons? I've seen at least one place that mentioned an 'engraving certificate' comes with the controller. I assume I fill that out, send it in and they send me a new set of buttons. Is that correct?

Does the same apply to the QS main controller?