Quick question to anyone here that can answer this. I have a GRX-3106 and was planning on switching a 240watt amp for my bass shakers using a zone configured with instant on and no dimming. Can this be done and is it fine to do it with this controller?

Edit: Another question, do I need a 12/24vdc ps when using the GRX-3106 and a GRX-IRI?

Thanks,
Bob

I have an extra white cover for the Grafik Eye 3106. Never used, it came in it's own box as an extra. If anyone needs one pm me for info.

thanks,

Gary

Where do people buy Grafik Eye equipment? I see relatively few on line retailers, and with poor selection. Lutron's site 'where to buy' finder points me at a ceiling fan store 20 miles away. Actually, looking for generic 'grafik eye' I'm finding more, I guess it was just the QS qualifier that was limiting things. Is the QS not really available much yet? Any pointers to where to get the QS online?

(edit: I see now references in earlier posts to going through AVS, DE, or Audible Solutions [can't find the website for that one])

Also, I've been thinking 3106 but might go QS if it's easier to install (shallower in the box). Has anybody actually installed both the old style thicker and the thinner QS that can comment on if it makes much of a difference?

Assuming you have an Ebay account, put an alert out for the model you want. Weekly, there are ones for sale. I bought a used 3104 for $288 (w/ shipping). It took couple of months for a 3104 to pop up and get it at a decent price, but it worked out well for me - it's installed working perfectly.

I just brought my grx-3104 on craigslist brand new in the box. ! That was a steal !!

I've owned a GRX 2404 for approx. 6-7 yrs. with the remote control. I plan on moving to a new house and I'd like to take the 2404 with me. Is there a way to wire in manual switches in place of the Lutron panel? I'm using the 2404 for all 4 zones.

TIA
Ken

That should be no problem Ken. The 2404 will be in a 4 gang box with screws holes designed to fit 4 switches (toggle, rocker, or dimmer...) You should get an electrician in to do the wiring -each switch will need a hot feed; 5 wires under one wire nut should be done by a pro.
GL
Lisa

Does the RA-GRX-6 install and stand alone (no other mandatory accessories) similar to the 3106 or 3506? Are there any major differences besides RF vs IR? Also are there modules available or any way to allow the GE to also control ceiling fans with any of these GE models?

Thanks to all for the very informative and helpful thread.

The GE will not control ceiling fans, unless you want to program it to be on or off. Even then I'm not sure since it's a motor load if it will need a GRX-TVI. It will operate as a stand alone. RF just means more flexability on where the unit can go without having to run a IR flasher and emitter.

Thanks, but I already understand the pros and cons of RF vs IR. My question was is there any major differences in RA-GRX-6 vs 3106 besides one being RF & the other IR. Although you didn't say so directly, you seem to be indicating there is not. Correct?

It looks like the GRX-TVI will handle switching a 1/4 hp motor @ 120v, which is one ceiling fan. I currently have 2 fans on one circuit in my ht room. If I'm correctly understanding what I could find to read about it, the only control I can achieve with a GE is to switch them off and on. And that would require putting them on separate circuits and using 2 GRX-TVI's. Then I'd still have to change fan speeds manually at the fans. Anyone know of anything better? Otherwise it looks like it'd be better to use a separate, independent fan controller for fan automation. I was simply hoping for a bit cleaner set up by having a GE control it all.

Hello,
I have a Grafik Eye 3504 with the add-on Radio Ra interface. I now want to add a GRX-PRG computer interface/astronomic time clock which I purchased used, i.e. without cables. I have 2 questions:

1. Where can I get the PELV Class 2 cable in small lengths? I need only a few feet as the GRX-PRG is very close to the 3504 control unit. This type of cable (18ga, twisted pairs) seems hard to come by unless you want a 1000ft roll. I actually found Belden 9740 (unshielded, but Lutron's website lists it for this purpose) for $.20/ft at an electronic surplus place, but they had to cancel my order because they couldn't find it--apparently disappeared when they moved their inventory to a new warehouse. Is connecting GE peripherals and control units the only thing this type of cable is used for? When I google "PELV class 2" all I get are Lutron-related hits. I really don't want to buy a whole roll, so I'm stuck on this one.

2. Lutron general instructions for PELV Class 2 wiring say that all devices are daisy-chained; however, my Radio Ra interface came only with connecting wires, no "in" and "out" terminals. Likewise, the GRX-PRG has only one set of connections for the cable that goes to the control unit, so I'm assuming that it's OK to wire both of these peripherals in parallel to the cable coming off the 3504 control unit.

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide. I've checked out your forum many times in the past year and have learned a lot of really useful things from it.
--John

From earlier posts in this thread:

http://www.hankselectric.com/item156207.ctlg

not sure it's PELV class 2 but, could be worth a call though.

For the wire, try here. (http://www.hankselectric.net/detail.aspx?ID=402) It's priced by the foot, there is no mention of a roll, so I assume they will cut and sell whatever length you request. I'm about to place an order for several items including the wire myself.

Scroll down to the wiring diagram here. (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/grx-prg.pdf) You'll have two wires on each terminal when adding an additional interface (the dotted lines for the wire in the diagram go to the next item in the daisy chain).

Now I see. Each of the four wires coming in is connected together on the one screw terminal with its corresponding wire that goes on to the next device in the chain. I had been thinking wire nuts before. Thanks for the info and the links.
--John

Does anybody know what kind of IR wired connection the QS takes? Since that wire is going into a high-voltage box, I assume the wire has to be rated 600V... Does it have to connect to a specific Lutron IR receiver, or can some other standard IR extender work?

Paul,

My GE QS arrives today so I'll check, but I believe you can use a standard 3.5mm mono cable to connect the GE to your IR repeater (assuming it provides 3.5mm jacks for IR emitters.) I'll take a look and try to post a picture after I get it unboxed. I'll likely try this out in a week or two as well.

-Ryan

Thanks for checking.

I'm currently torn between Insteon and GE. Insteon appears to give me much more flexibility/expandability, as well as lower entry price.

I've already got my lutron green cable run for the accessory switch by the door and I still can't decide...

Paul,

My GE QS arrives today so I'll check, but I believe you can use a standard 3.5mm mono cable to connect the GE to your IR repeater (assuming it provides 3.5mm jacks for IR emitters.) I'll take a look and try to post a picture after I get it unboxed. I'll likely try this out in a week or two as well.

-Ryan

Everything showed up as ordered (woo hoo!) The wiring on the back of the GE is shown on page 4 of the manual here: [URL]javascript:void window.open('/CMS400/WorkArea/downloadasset.aspx?id=14315','showcontent','toolbar=0,locati on=0,directories=0,status=0,menubar=0,scrollbars=1,resizable =1,width=700,height=600')/[URL]

I called Lutron and confirmed that this will take a standard 2-wire emitter. What you would do is use an emitter wire, cut off the emitter and wire the two wires to the two connectors. Polarity isn't important here according to Lutron. I intend to get my remote (a Logitech Harmony) soon and test all this before I cover my wall with fabric.

I can post back with the results of that experiment hopefully in a week or two.

-Ryan

I am considering the GE QS system mostly because of the hardwire IR feature. The Lutron literature I have found is not much help in trying to figure out how to wire this feature up. Do I just run standard CAT-5 from say a buffalo IR repeater system to the terminals on the back? Any assistance would be appreciated.

If you read the last few posts of the thread, you'll see a discussion on that topic. Bottom line: watch this space for more information.

Thanks. I did see the last post, but I am still trying to figure out if I can run the hardwire IR over standard CAT5. I cant seem to find anything on the IR system on the GE QS unit. I will keep checking back.. This is a great thread on the topic!

Thanks. I did see the last post, but I am still trying to figure out if I can run the hardwire IR over standard CAT5. I cant seem to find anything on the IR system on the GE QS unit. I will keep checking back.. This is a great thread on the topic!

I'm going to use an IR emitter line and cut off the emitter and just the wire it comes with. I believe you could use the cat-5, but I'm not certain with the buffalo system. I'm using a Logitech Harmony 1000 with the RF Extender kit. I'll probably run cat 5 from the box to the IR location in case I every change how I run IR. When I get this wired and tested I'll report back with details and photos. Hopefully in a week or two.

-Ryan

Here is my question: do I really need to install the metal Raco box behind the GE? :confused: The GE mounts securely inside the adapter plate.

Short answer: Yes. It is required by code.

(The box may or may not have to be metal, depending on your local code. Check with your inspector or a local licensed electrician.)

(I posted this yesterday, but it appears to have been lost... Reposting)

Can anyone summarize the advantages of a 6 zone QS over a 3106?

In my room:
- I don't need shade control
- I don't need clock/calendar based control

Is the QS newer/better/easier-to-use or more future proof?

Go back about two pages and start reading. This was discussed.

Thanks, but I already understand the pros and cons of RF vs IR. My question was is there any major differences in RA-GRX-6 vs 3106 besides one being RF & the other IR. Although you didn't say so directly, you seem to be indicating there is not. Correct?

It looks like the GRX-TVI will handle switching a 1/4 hp motor @ 120v, which is one ceiling fan. I currently have 2 fans on one circuit in my ht room. If I'm correctly understanding what I could find to read about it, the only control I can achieve with a GE is to switch them off and on. And that would require putting them on separate circuits and using 2 GRX-TVI's. Then I'd still have to change fan speeds manually at the fans. Anyone know of anything better? Otherwise it looks like it'd be better to use a separate, independent fan controller for fan automation. I was simply hoping for a bit cleaner set up by having a GE control it all.

Many (most?) fan controllers are RF. If you're using a remote to control your GE, you could program it for the fans, too.

And as far as I know, there is no other difference between the RF and IR versions of the GE.

I called Lutron and confirmed that this will take a standard 2-wire emitter. What you would do is use an emitter wire, cut off the emitter and wire the two wires to the two connectors.

Remember that since this cable enters the box wherein high voltage lines run, it must be rated accordingly (300V or 600V jacket). If necessary you could wrap it in electrical tape.

I just finished the installation of my Grafix-Eye QS, and I love it!! The Install was a breeze, the reduced size made it easy to get it and ALL 7 lines of 12-2 in one box. The connections and labels on the back were easy to work and understand. The LCD on the front really steps up the beauty and programmability of the unit. Dimming the various zones was very easy, quick, and the smaller increments allows you to really "dial" in the look and feel of the room(s). The unit is manufactured really well and i feel very confident that it will stand up to may years of use and two small children.

I have not found a SW suite I use the USB port with yet, so if anyone has see anything i would be very interested in hear what you found. I have not installed my remote seeTouch Qs units yet, but it looks very easy to program them using the LCD on the Grafik-QS.

(Pictures to Come Soon)

Remember that since this cable enters the box wherein high voltage lines run, it must be rated accordingly (300V or 600V jacket). If necessary you could wrap it in electrical tape.

I remember. I'm also going to run cat 5, so I may just splice the cat5 to the IR line in my low-voltage box on the other side of the run instead of just running the IR line directly to the GE. I'm hoping I'll get my remote tomorrow locally - otherwise I'll order it and we'll find out for sure how this works soon.

-Ryan

I have not found a SW suite I use the USB port with yet, so if anyone has see anything i would be very interested in hear what you found.


If you do get the USB working, I'd love to hear what the functionality is. Is it just designed to allow GUI programming of the scenes? That doesn't sound that useful, as it sounds like setting up the scenes from the front is pretty easy.

I'd love it if they'd drop an ethernet port in the thing. Install a little web server for programming it up, and accept tcp/ip commands. The ultimate way to get your HTPC controlling your lighting.

Although I suppose routing cat-5 ethernet cable into a j-box with power could be interesting...

I just realized I bought the AU version of the GRX-3106 which is 220v-240v... :( Will I be able to use that in the US? Can I just use a 240v circuit and then wire everything else up normally?

Dan

I installed my Grafik Eye QS a while back. I used Cat5 for the IR connection. I insulated the cat5 cable in the junction box with heat shrink tubing rated for 600v. I just got my remote programed this afternoon and happy to report all works great with the GE-QS

I'm going to use an IR emitter line and cut off the emitter and just the wire it comes with. I believe you could use the cat-5, but I'm not certain with the buffalo system. I'm using a Logitech Harmony 1000 with the RF Extender kit. I'll probably run cat 5 from the box to the IR location in case I every change how I run IR. When I get this wired and tested I'll report back with details and photos. Hopefully in a week or two.

-Ryan

I'm back with a report. I used a mono audio cable with a 3.5mm jack on one end and bare wires on the other. I connected the jack to the plug on my Harmony RF extender and the two wires to the GE directly. Polarity doesn't matter (according to the Lutron support folks), so I didn't pay attention to which wire was connected to which input on the GE.

This solution enabled me to use my Harmony RF remote and for the RF extender to control the GE. It was pretty sweet. I agree with other posts here - this is a good looking unit and it certainly meets my needs. I have several photos of the wiring and all in my build thread. Here's a link to the relevant post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13636926#post13636926

-Ryan

I just realized I bought the AU version of the GRX-3106 which is 220v-240v... :( Will I be able to use that in the US? Can I just use a 240v circuit and then wire everything else up normally?

Dan

I doubt it. I think the 220-240V is 50Hz (US is 60Hz). And you don't have a 240V line anyway. If I recall, the single-phase version that you can get out of your panel is 210-220V.

Consider it an expensive mistake.

I have not found a SW suite I use the USB port with yet, so if anyone has see anything i would be very interested in hear what you found. I have not installed my remote seeTouch Qs units yet, but it looks very easy to program them using the LCD on the Grafik-QS.

Have you tried Lutron's Liaison software? I'd be surprised if it didn't work.


(Pictures to Come Soon)

We're WAAIITINGG!! ...

I have several photos of the wiring and all in my build thread.

Nice thread.

From the pics it looks like the wallstation (and the QS?) have integral terminal strips for the PELV. The ones I've used have a plug so you can detach the low-voltage connections without fiddling with all those tiny wires. Do yours not have the plugs (connectors)?

I've just read this entire thread, some really useful information.

I want to use I think, a grx-av to control my blinds that switch by contact closure. Whats not clear from the manuals is how the grx-av works on conjunction with the GE. Does the interface take a zone or is it programmed with a scene or anaother way?

Thanks

John

Nice thread.

From the pics it looks like the wallstation (and the QS?) have integral terminal strips for the PELV. The ones I've used have a plug so you can detach the low-voltage connections without fiddling with all those tiny wires. Do yours not have the plugs (connectors)?

Thanks. No plugs that I recall - I'll double check when I install permanently next week.

-Ryan

Thanks. No plugs that I recall - I'll double check when I install permanently next week.

-Ryan

I stand corrected. There are plugs, they were just attached to the GE already. I installed my GE and wall-station this weekend and noticed that the plugs on the unit are easily removed for wiring. All is working for me, I just need to get the programming done.

-Ryan

I've just read this entire thread, some really useful information.

I want to use I think, a grx-av to control my blinds that switch by contact closure. Whats not clear from the manuals is how the grx-av works on conjunction with the GE. Does the interface take a zone or is it programmed with a scene or anaother way?

Thanks

John

The GRX-AV has dip switches that, depending on their setting, you can have the input or OUTPUT be a dry contact closure. For example you can set scene 2 to activate a momentary or maintained dry contact output. -It does not take up a zone on the Grafik Eye. The GRX-AV is powered, and communicates with the Grafik Eye via the MUX link wires (4 wires 2-power 2-signal)

I was told by an electrician supposedly experienced in Grafik Eye installations that I can run a wire from my Marantz RF extender (RX-8001) to the GE, so that I could run the GE in a location that is not in line of sight with the GE (for instance, in a closet). The electrician never called back and doesn't return phone calls, and I need to move on. Tried to ask Lutron how this is done and they acted like I was speaking Greek.
Do you know how this is done? Something about running a low voltage hardwire from the extender to the Grafik Eye?

I was told by an electrician supposedly experienced in Grafik Eye installations that I can run a wire from my Marantz RF extender (RX-8001) to the GE, so that I could run the GE in a location that is not in line of sight with the GE (for instance, in a closet). The electrician never called back and doesn't return phone calls, and I need to move on. Tried to ask Lutron how this is done and they acted like I was speaking Greek.
Do you know how this is done? Something about running a low voltage hardwire from the extender to the Grafik Eye?

How about an RF interface..
http://www.lutron.com/techInfo/InstallGuides/044030a.pdf

How about an RF interface..
http://www.lutron.com/techInfo/InstallGuides/044030a.pdf

May have also been thinking of the GRX-IRI, which can connect with an emitter from my Matantz RX-8001 and then to the Grafik Eye. I thought he said I could go full hardwire though. Perhaps he was thinking of the GRXI, thought that adds a couple hundred bucks to the project.

Crestron has an interface that hardwires to the Lutron MUX link terminals. The ST-LT has a four wire terminal terminal that wires directly to the MUX link. But I dont see that capability with the Marantz...

Crestron has an interface that hardwires to the Lutron MUX link terminals. The ST-LT has a four wire terminal terminal that wires directly to the MUX link. But I dont see that capability with the Marantz...

Do you know which Crestron model that would be? I'm not wedded to the Marantz.

Do you know which Crestron model that would be? I'm not wedded to the Marantz.

The ST-LT Lutron Interface Module
It is on pg 66 of the Smartouch catalog
http://catalogs.infocommiq.com/AVCat/images/documents/pdfs/04-smartouch_sts.pdf

This may have been asked...sorry if it has but a few quick yes or no questions.

1) Can I use the shade cotrol on the QS to trigger a screen masking system? basically trigger relays on the masking system

2) I think this is a yes but I need 12 zones, when I hook two together they will work together in terms of setting up scenes correct?

I have read through quite a bit of this thread but didn't see these asked

Thanks Jeff

Have a GE 3104 is there a way to reset to the original factory settings?? Like starting over>?? I remounted a perfectly working system & now none of my lighting works. The GE shows power & zones & such but nothing goes to my zones now, Checked my lighting & all works w/ reg switch & hooked GE back up same way & same results> no lighting Are they easely shorted>>?? HELP

Best thing to do is to call Lutron Tech Support Monday AM. It is easy to burn Grafik Eyes out - better to be careful here... Their tech support group is very good and has helped me out numerous times over the phone.

Contacted & very helpful, but didn't like the news that it may be bad. Go Figure They want me to get the model # & a code because its an old GE & that they "MAYBE" might have parts or something to correct it... I'll go for it
Thanx for the comeback always appreciated

This may have been asked...sorry if it has but a few quick yes or no questions.

1) Can I use the shade cotrol on the QS to trigger a screen masking system? basically trigger relays on the masking system

2) I think this is a yes but I need 12 zones, when I hook two together they will work together in terms of setting up scenes correct?

I have read through quite a bit of this thread but didn't see these asked

Thanks Jeff
You can use 2 together to get the 12 zones you need, I think the wiring diagram is included with the units (I remember you only use the power supply on one of the 3106). I'm not sure about the screen masking. I would call tech support and let us know!

Thanks BillW I will give them a call. Basically trying to figure out if going with the QS is necessary (added cost). The IR connect is a plus and if I can setup the masking system with the shade control that would work out pretty slick.

thanks Jeff

Edit update- Talked with tech support and the shade control will not work as I was hoping the shade control "talks" to the shade controller I was hoping it I could program the time the contact was closed ie different AR's. but there is ways to set up a scene with for switch closures. For instance 1.78 AR I could setup a scene called 1.78 and the closure will stay connected as long as the scene is active. This could move the masking system to the 1.78 limit switch. Really the same functionality as using the lens transport 12 volt output for in and out but another option to consider.

If you have a Stewart ElectraScreen ... they use the Lutron QED shade motor. That would make the QS a great choice.

BTW, I don't believe Crestron makes the ST-LT any longer. Should double check.

If you have a Stewart ElectraScreen ... they use the Lutron QED shade motor. That would make the QS a great choice.



thanks Dennis. I am doing my own masking system and was planning on a dual rack and pinion for the transport mechanism. Do yo have more info on the QED shad motor? Or point me to the right place? So if I understand with this setup I could program for precise masking system travel.

Lutron won't sell just the motor/control unit.

Can I use the GE 3106 to separate line voltage (120V) and ELV fixtures in different zones? Is this possible or not?

I have a GE 3504, and I have recently purchased an ELVI-1000 Low voltage interface, as well as some MR-16 fixtures that accept GU5.3 base bulbs. I now need a low voltage transformer that will be compatible with the GE and the interface. I've looked all over the Lutron site and the instruction manuals, but all they really say is to get a transformer that will work with reverse-phase dimming. They don't seem to sell such a transformer. I'm looking to power 3-4 fixtures at 50W@ with one transformer.
Any help or leads would be greatly appreciated.
Your forum has been, and continues to be extremely helpful to me.
John

You can mix ELV and MLV on one GE; but, not mix load types on a single zone. MLV doesn't require an interface but most ELV will require an ELVI-1000 interface. You'd need an ELVI for each zone with electronic low voltage transformers ... which is why I generally avoid ELV fixtures and stick to magnetic transformers. You can also control up to 36000 watts on a single GE; but, that's a different story.

The transformer required for your lights needs to come from the lighting fixture vendor or electrical supply company. If you already have the ELVI interface, then you're looking for an electronic low voltage transformer. A Magnetic Low Voltage transformer wouldn't require an interface.

John,

You can buy electronic low voltage transformers, they are not much larger than a deck of cards. (I get mine at Light Bulbs Unlimited in Encinitas, CA... tell them Lisa Electric sent you :) If you have attic space you can mount them in the attic. You may want to break it down to two 100 watt transformers. This will keep the current lower on the low voltage side. (one transformer for every 2 fixtures). You will want to install them as close the fixtre as possible, and run 12 or 14 guage low voltage wiring (available at home depot) because it has thicker insulation.

Lisa

Can someone tell me if a 3106 will work with a GRX-PRG ?
I read different things in different documents on the Lutron site.

LED1 is on, so i seem to have connected the mux link ok.

I gave the 3106 adress A1, but i never saw the data led light up, if i change scene's (Led 6 on, others on off) I also have a EGRX-4SIR connected, this is on adres 5


I have conected this to a Philips RFX9600 which also receives nothing. I try to send scene change to the GRX-PRG, but this also not works.
I do have 4 other devices working on a RFX9600, so i am pretty sure i have that setup ok.

Do i need any wires on the RS-232 side besides the gnd, send and receive ?

In the manual for the GRX-RS232 i see that power needs to be supplied to the CTS and DTR line to feed the rs-232 side of the unit. Nothing of this i can find in any document on the grx-prg. Also the pin 4 and 5 on the rs-232 connection have 'nc' printed, so i assume this means 'not connected'
Do you actually need to supply this power for the GRX-RS232 ? I have such a unit as well.


Thanks for any help.

Lutron support answered some of the questions this morning.
- GRX-PRG can be used for 31xx grafixeye.
- no CTS and/or DTR singal needed.
- limited options use of the GRX-PRG, most option only for 35xx series.

So i will swap out the GRX-PRG for a GRX-RS232 to check if the unit might be defect. (bought both from e-bay)

The GRX-RS232 works, so it seems the GRX-PRG i bought is broken.
This works quite nicely, much better than pointing the remote for IR control :)

I think I'm ready to pull the trigger on my GE. I want a 6 zone QS
- no shade control.
- solid black lid, solid black body, solid black stripe.

My GE will be mounted on the front-left wall of my HT. I've already got a pair of deep 4-gang boxes: one for my GE to face into the HT, one for collecting all my various loads. I'll run cat5 from my IR box to my GE.

I also need an entrance controller:
- 5 button SeeTouch controller, no shade control, no IR
- also black

I've run the right wire (lutron-GRN) from the entrance controller spot to the GE.

Am I correct that both come with a certificate to allow me to get the button engraving done later, or do I have to figure out exactly what my scene names will be now?

Anybody reading who also sells them, please PM me if you are interested in giving me a quote.

Paul,
I purchased the exact same setup except for color. Yes they both come with the certificate for later engraving

Sieberlf,

Where did you buy yours?

Dear all,

I have a problem with grafik eye and LED bulb. I am using GE 3106, I have LED bulb on zone 3 (about 7 watt) and other incadescent on zone 1, 2, 4, and 5. I set zone 3 (LED) to non dimmable last on, first off. If i set zone 3 to ON, the LED works OK, and if i set zone 3 to OFF it's OK too.

The problem comes when other incadescent also lit WHILE zone 3 (LED) is OFF. LED will appear to be dimmed (or rather, blinking heavily). I'm not sure what is the problem here. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I tried changing the load type of zone 3 from last on, first off to first on first off, and still no effect. I change to magnetic, electric, and try everyone of them but still no luck.

I have had that problem using power line (x10) systems, but I have LED zones on Grafik Eyes often and have not had that issue before.

Is the LED switch leg part of a 3 wire (black, red, white) switch leg? (ie: the red goes to the LEDs and the black goes to the can lights?)

Are the LEDs 120 volt, or are you controlling an LED power supply?
Lisa

My GE is for international (the voltage is 220 Volt), and my LED is 220 Volt and also 12 Volt (both have the same problem), and the load is 7 Watt in 1 zone, i read somewhere that the minimum load for 1 zone is 25 Watt, does it create this kind of problem?

FYI: My LED has been packed so that it can fit in to the existing light fixture (say PAR30, or something like that)

Any help will be much appreciated thanks

Where can I get the wire that is needed to connect a wall station to the 3106. I have found places that carry it, but I don't feel like buying 500ft for a 5 ft. run. thanks

Also, are there double wall plates that can be used to put over a wall station and a normal none grafik eye dimmer?

Hanks Electrical Supply has it by the foot, $.48/ft. Click on one of the GEs to get more detail, and it'll be listed underneath as an accessory: look for "Grafik Eye Control Wire". They also sell 4gang boxes.

Hanks Electrical Supply has it by the foot, $.48/ft. Click on one of the GEs to get more detail, and it'll be listed underneath as an accessory: look for "Grafik Eye Control Wire". They also sell 4gang boxes.

Awesome! Thanks. I just need a single run of this from the wall station to the GE Correct, so if I am 4 ft apart, I am safe with an order for 5 ft. I have been killing myself for a week trying to find this. Now I just need to figure out what to do about my wall plate.

I have a normal knob dimmer (which can me replaced with another if needed) and then the wall station. Is there a wall plate that will fit both? It seems as though the wall station opening is larger than normal, so you can only go with the single plate. If there is no double plate available, I would be OK separating my 2 switches and using 2 single plates, but I am sure it would look way better with one double plate...

Are the prices for the 4 gang masonry at Hanks pretty typical? If so I figure to order it while I am at it too, unless we know of a better price elsewhere. Thanks.

Hello,

Is it possible to have a Grafik Eye control a ceiling fan?

Thanks.

Are the prices for the 4 gang masonry at Hanks pretty typical? If so I figure to order it while I am at it too, unless we know of a better price elsewhere. Thanks.

I see $10.78. I think I spent $12. Since you are ordering from them anyway, the shipping savings will offset any price you might save anyway. Go for it.

Paul

Where can I get wire nuts that will take 7 12 AWG wires? Or am I misunderstanding something? If I have a 3106, I have 6 zones, so I have to connect 6 grounds and neutrals +1 extra that actually connects to the GE itself. I was at HD today and the biggest I can find are for 6 12AWG...I would like to think they make them bigger, but it is a matter of finding them at the right place.

Also, when it comes time to prepare for drywall, I know the rule is to not install any outlets or switches for ease of painting and finishing. But when it comes to the GE, do people wire it up at least? The reason I ask, is because right now I have 3 outlets just roughed in so I can control the lights, but I will need to take that down when preparing for the GE, and if I dont install it, then I wont have any lights in the basement...so I would think the easiest would be to install it, but I dont want it to be in the way, so what am I to do, or what do others do to get lighting if I dont want the GE in place when hanging drywall. And before anyone says it, I dont feel like sheet-rocking in the dark. Thanks!

Where can I get wire nuts that will take 7 12 AWG wires? Or am I misunderstanding something? If I have a 3106, I have 6 zones, so I have to connect 6 grounds and neutrals +1 extra that actually connects to the GE itself. I was at HD today and the biggest I can find are for 6 12AWG...I would like to think they make them bigger, but it is a matter of finding them at the right place.
I would just do it with a few nuts. If you have nuts that can take 4, do: 3106 ground, 2 zones, and a short wire in one nut. The short wire goes to another nut with 2 zones and another short wire, which goes to another nut with the final zones.

Stuff like that is why I plan to have two four gang boxes (the second in the attic above the GE box, connected by a couple of short pieces of conduit). That way there will be loads of space to wire it all up.

I would just do it with a few nuts. If you have nuts that can take 4, do: 3106 ground, 2 zones, and a short wire in one nut. The short wire goes to another nut with 2 zones and another short wire, which goes to another nut with the final zones.

Stuff like that is why I plan to have two four gang boxes (the second in the attic above the GE box, connected by a couple of short pieces of conduit). That way there will be loads of space to wire it all up.

Ah, perfect, I was thinking about this, doing a few stringing them together and stuff, however, I was not sure if that was allowed by code.

Just go buy a couple of $2 regular switches and wire them into the box that will hold the 3106. Let's you make sure all your wiring isn't hurt by the drywall rotozip, and let's you turn it off at night when you're done...

Where am I to make the connection for the RF repeater? I believe you cant mix high with low voltage in a box, so do I just mark it and have the guys that are to hang the drywall pull the Cat5 out of the wall under the box, so I can make my connection and tuck it back into the wall nicely?

I'm probably asking a really stupid question here but I've been reading this thread (not all 20pgs, but I'm trying), because I'm thinking of using the GrafikEye to control the lighting in my theater. To me, it seems like installation is very straight forward so what am I missing here:

I have four light zones, and I'm thinking of doing a fifth:
1. Main 6" cans
2. 4" cans at front (to light the a/v cabinet and media storage when needed)
3. 3" cans along the sides for entry/exit
4. Step/aisle lighting along wals
5. Possible lighting on edge of riser... but I might incorporate it into "4"

Right now I have one power source coming in for the lights, because I'm not going to exceed 2400W on that circuit... this is going into the 4-gang box on the wall. Out of the 4-gang it goes to the four light 'zones' that I have. Looking at the installation instructions for the GrafikEye, it looks very simple to wire it up. Incoming goes here, outgoing to the zones goes there. Wham, bam... add magic pixie dust as needed, and program the scenes. I've done a lot of electrical, so maybe I'm over-simplifying a bit but...

I guess I'm wondering what I'm missing.

Another item that I need to research, but maybe someone can help me out, how do I control the unit? Is it already set up for IR use, so that I can control it with a Harmony remote? Or, do I need to buy a separate interface?

The GrafikEye looks like the cats meow for theater lighting though. I was looking at doing a system using Lutron Spacers but the GrafikEye looks like a more elegant solution, for about the same price.

Thanks for your help, sage and learn-ed ones. :)

That's about it javadoc,

As far as control it depends on a couple of things. The GE has an IR rcvr on the front of it. So if you have line of sight you'll be good to go. Also depending on where you are placing the unit you'll need to consider how you plan to turn on the unit to the appropiate scene, either by hand or remote. In my case the unit is right before I enter the HT but I use my 3106 to control not only the HT but also the rest of the basement lighting. So I added a NTGRX-1S-WH at the bottom of my steps which sets the GE to scene one and then off when pressed again from whatever scene it's at. This accesory gets wire with regular electrical cable.

In order to control the unit from inside the HT I also managed to get a CIR-WH which is wired with PELV wire. This an IR rcvr. which gets recessed into the ceiling and receives IR signal from the remote in a 360 degree direction. Here's a link (http://www.louielighting.com/control/product?product_id=GRX-CIR-WH&zmam=8526920&zmas=6&zmac=36&zmap=GRX-CIR-WH)to one. Found one on ebay for dirt cheap in comparison to that price though.

They also sell an IR rcvr which goes in a regular electrical box the GRX-IRI (http://www.bizrate.com/electricalsupplies/oid745152103.html). This will also allow to run PELV wire from the GE to where ever you want to control the unit from.

Oh that means I'm not crazy...well at least not because of the GE.

PELV, I don't understand this actually, but this is the power to a Wall Station, correct? How do I wire this up?

Answers to that question may solve an issue that I'm having with entry into the HT. I have the switches inside of the room, but have right now wired a 3-way to turn on the entry/exit 'zone.' Now, if I could rip that 12/3 wire out of the wall and just use a Wall Station in that single gang which I have mounted just outside of the HT, that may make life that much simpler. Is this one way of using a Wall Station then? If so, I'm a bit stimied by the PELV, and where/how to pull power to the Wall Station. It's probably simple too, but I'm not connecting. I'm also assuming that I would just run a length of Cat5 from a wall station to the main GE unit to connect the two, ja?

thx!

Basically PELV is a low voltage wire with a high voltage sheathing. Your not supposed to put low voltage wiring (cat 5) in the same box as high voltage wires. PELV is rated to be in the same box as high voltage wires. Most accessories for the GE are made to use the PELV. You can use the NTGRX-4S (http://www.lutron.com/techInfo/SpecSheets/NTGRX4SEAa200007.pdf) with PELV to select up to 4 scenes from outside the theater. The power is provided by one or two of the conductors in the PELV wire. If you go with the NTGRX-1S (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/ntgrx-1s.pdf) which I mentioned above you can use that existing wire in the wall (you just need to cap off the second leg). Again this accesory goes from off to scence 1 and from whatever scene your on to off.

Oh so it's not a special wire, I can leave the wiring that I have going to that switch in the system and just be sure to wire it accordingly so that it's PELV. That would make things just a bit simpler, and very very cool to be able to turn on a scene when you walk into the room.

Thanks for all the help! Now I just have to sell the woman who lets me live in my house on a $500 "light switch." ;) She's still recovering from amount that I've spent on resilient channel throughout the basement!

I don't think you'll be able to use your existing 12-3 wire as PELV. The wires which make up the PELV are two 18gauge and two thinner wires plus a drain. You wouldn't need the drain in a one accessory setup you do if you connect 2 or more. The main problem you'll have is the connector on the grafik eye and the accessory is small and I dont think it (from what I recall) will accept a 12ga wire. The most I think you can put on it is 2 18ga wires.

Like I said though you can use the 12-3 for the NTGRX-1S, that uses a conventional connection. There's one now on ebay. Also check ebay for deals on the GE.

Simple question vs the others in this thread! I ordered a 4 zone GE, and just passed my rough electrical inspection. I am in the process of putting up drywall and I probably will be ready to do the GE wall before it arrives. Since I have not seen the back of one of these units, is it preferable to punch out the top holes of the Raco 698 box or the back holes to feed the Romex through, given how the wires fit into the box and interface with the GE?

Well there was some good information on page 4 of this thread, I'd like to try and repeat some of it out loud and see if I can get anyone to tell me I am right or wrong.

I am trying to decide between the 3106 or the 3506. The current plan is to control the Grafik Eye with a Crestron QM-RMC via rs232. From what I gather from page, either unit will do the task.

I believe, ideally, I would like to be able to interrogate the GE to see what state all the zones are in, but from what I gather, without a GR-PRG, the communication I can do over rs232 is only one way and really just mimic's IR.

The only advantage I have with rs232 and no GR-PRG is not having to run an emitter to the front of the GE.

Do I have that all right?

Simple question vs the others in this thread! I ordered a 4 zone GE, and just passed my rough electrical inspection. I am in the process of putting up drywall and I probably will be ready to do the GE wall before it arrives. Since I have not seen the back of one of these units, is it preferable to punch out the top holes of the Raco 698 box or the back holes to feed the Romex through, given how the wires fit into the box and interface with the GE?

I just bought a grx-2404 and the manual showed where to punch out in the box. each end of the unit had 2 zones, so they say to run 2 zones to each end of the box, either top or bottom punchout was fine. not sure if this helps you or is like your unit though. I would check online for your manual just to be sure.

After installing my Grafix Eye which controls only incandescent lights I've noticed when on very low the bulbs have a soft high frequency hum (not 60Hz). The sound is definitely coming from the light bulbs. For an individual light bulb the sound is very soft and you need to be about 3 feet away from the bulb to hear it. Unfortunately, one of my circuits controls 9 60W bulbs and all together the noise is noticeable throughout the room. Does anybody have any ideas? Could it be the brand of bulbs (Sylvania) ?

What you are hearing is the lamp filiments vibrating. Try changing to a 130v lamp if you are using a typical A19 lamp. Sylvinia is a good lamp manufacturer, but you could also try GE or Philips.

Simple question vs the others in this thread! I ordered a 4 zone GE, and just passed my rough electrical inspection. I am in the process of putting up drywall and I probably will be ready to do the GE wall before it arrives. Since I have not seen the back of one of these units, is it preferable to punch out the top holes of the Raco 698 box or the back holes to feed the Romex through, given how the wires fit into the box and interface with the GE?

You can come in through the top of the box without a problem. It is best to leave the wires pretty long (8-10") so you can lay the bundles neatly along the corners in the box.

Dthibode and Lisa,
Thanks for the replies - appreciated.

Where is the best place to purchase an LP dimming panel?

I've been working on my basement for 2-1/2 years and saved the theater for last. I was planning to install dimmers and get a Grafik Eye later but I got a deal (Atlanta craigslist) on a GRX-2404-A-WH. The problem is that I have too many zones. Sorry if this has already been covered.

Zone Circuit lights per circuit watts per light watts
A 4" cans over screen 3 45 135
front sconces 2 60 120

B 4" cans at sides 6 45 270
6" cans rear 3 60 180

C side and rear sconces 5 60 300

D track lights 4 150 600

E rope lights ceiling 3 54 162
rope lights floor 1 54 54
step light 1 40 40
exit sign 1 60 60
curtain (future) 1 60 60
window (future) 1 60 60
other future 1 60 60
2041


Should I use a Maestro IR for a zone or two and control all with a Harmony remote? I don't think the ceiling rope lights will need dimming - just on/off. Some loads could be left on whenever the room is occupied. Is it OK to switch the power supplied to the GE? Pulling more wire, external relays, dimmers, etc would not be a problem if necessary.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Stan

I dont know why this thread is sticky as the "experts" dont seam to answer...anyways....can I ask where you picked up your 2400 eye?

Atlanta craigslist - I'll add that to my message

I dont know why this thread is sticky as the "experts" dont seam to answer...anyways....can I ask where you picked up your 2400 eye?

The expertise here does not extend to finding you deals for your equipment.

Simple question vs the others in this thread! I ordered a 4 zone GE, and just passed my rough electrical inspection. I am in the process of putting up drywall and I probably will be ready to do the GE wall before it arrives. Since I have not seen the back of one of these units, is it preferable to punch out the top holes of the Raco 698 box or the back holes to feed the Romex through, given how the wires fit into the box and interface with the GE?

How did you pass electrical without having the box wired? :confused:

Btw, don't forget that clamps are required where NM (Romex) enters a metal box. I'd use the top or bottom holes - the ones on the ends for NM, one of the ones in the middle for PELV.

Oh so it's not a special wire, I can leave the wiring that I have going to that switch in the system and just be sure to wire it accordingly so that it's PELV.

No.

The PELV for the wallstations is a special four conductor shielded cable a little bit bigger than lamp cord. You cannot use the 14 or 12 AWG NM that's already in the box. The wallstations (with the single exception of NTGRX-1S) do not use 120V power at all.

This is all explained on page one of this thread. You might want to re-read it.

IThe problem is that I have too many zones.

Your problem is that you have too many zones for your lighting controller. Either get fewer zones or get more zone controllers. Sounds like you're trying to piece together another GE from external parts - IMO not worth the effort.

Your best bet is reduce the number of dimmable zones by re-thinking how you've broken down your lighting. Group them not by circuit or type of fixture but by function.

Here's a sample set of functions based on three scenes (you might have more): Cleaning (everything on full), Entry, Viewing.

Function 0: always on when occupied, undimmed or externally dimmed
Function 1: on for entry, off for viewing, undimmed
Function 2: dimmed to A for entry, dimmed to B* for viewing
Function 3: dimmed to M for entry, dimmed to N* for viewing
Function 4: dimmed to S for entry, dimmed to T* for viewing
* B, N, T could be zero

Now re-build the table and add a column for function. Drop all F0s from the GE. The trick will be to figure out which remaining circuits/types can live at the same dimming levels for each scene. For instance, I'll bet all the sconces can function at the same levels. You will soon see how this translates to zones. You should be able to get by with 4 GE zones if you keep the scenes simple.

What are the track lights for? Accent? Consider using them as F1.

F Circuit Zone
F1 4" cans over screen 1
F2 front sconces 2
F3 4" cans at sides 3
F2 6" cans rear 2
F2 side and rear sconces 2
F4 track lights 4
F3 rope lights ceiling 3

F0 rope lights floor
F0 step light
F0 exit sign
?? curtain (future) power curtains & controller -> $$$
?? window (future) say what? :confused:
?? other future another GE

Ok DMF....considering an assumption was made that I was looking for something on the cheap.....which if looking for LP panel it is simply not going to be on the cheap and only beared the question because I am not having good internet search results and only have a small town electronics dealer within driving distance..............anyways...other than cost (because cost is why I am scrapping my Grafik eye 4000 series idea with individual panels) and considering a Grafik Eye 2404.....what is the difference/advantage to the Eye 2000 series vs. a Leviton D3206 (which so far seams to be a better buy)??

I've been working on my basement for 2-1/2 years ... GRX-2404-A-WH. The problem is that I have too many zones.

Your problem is that you have too many zones for your lighting controller. Either get fewer zones or ...

I'll reduce it to 4 zones plus the on when occupied.

Thanks

what is the difference/advantage to the Eye 2000 series vs. a Leviton D3206 (which so far seams to be a better buy)??

Can't say. I'm not familiar with the Leviton product. Got a link?

Of course, the validity of any comment will depend on your needs and you haven't described any. It's a huge jump from 4000 series to 2000 series. Are you sure you know what you want to do with the controller?

Has anybody used the USB port on the QS to program it from a PC? Is there anything you can do through the PC interface that you can't do from the display? Can you use a PC to control the GE in real time (home automation software on the PC controlling the lights, for example)?

I'm trying to decide between the QS and the 3106. At this point, I can find the 3106 for <$500, and $750 for the QS 6 zone. Since I don't need shade controllers or the astronomical clock, it seems like I would be paying $250 for an IR port. I'm trying to see if I'm missing something.

If my prices are way off, please let me know what I'm missing, or PM me with pointers.

[Edit: Ok, I was wrong. I had seen white 3106's on e-bay for $440 or so buy-it-now, so I had a <$500 price in my mind. Talking to electrical suppliers locally and looking on-line, 'normal' stores are selling the 3106 for $600-$750. At that price point, the QS is much more competitive. Still interested in the answer to the USB question, though]


Thanks!

Has anybody used the USB port on the QS to program it from a PC? Is there anything you can do through the PC interface that you can't do from the display? Can you use a PC to control the GE in real time (home automation software on the PC controlling the lights, for example)?


When in doubt, call Lutron...

Just got off the phone with tech support. The USB port is not usable. It's there for firmware upgrades only.

I asked if there were plans on making it usable, and he said "eventually, maybe", in a tone that said 'don't hold your breath'.

Is there a special cable for the IR jack on the back of the Grafik Eye QS, or do we just use PELV (18AWG)? If we use the PELV, would we just solder a 3.5 mm jack to the other end of the two 18AWG wires in the PELV for attaching to an IR distributor?

The diagrams make it look like the Grafik Eye has plug-in connectors for the PELV, is this the case or is it your typical screw down.

Thanks in advance.

Stephen G

This is a great thread, and I am still going through it. I do have some specific questions regarding my install.

My install is for full basement lighting control, as well as a home theater room.


So, here's what my install currently contains:

UR MSC-400 base station controller
MX-3000 remote
MX-980 remote

3104 4-zone grafik eye
3106 6-zone grafik eye
2 NTGRX-LB6 5-scene wallstations
2 NTGRX-LB9 8-scene wallstations
1 NTGRX-2B-SL 2-button wallstation


Here are my goals:
- To completely control all lighting zones in my basement.
- To actively control my HT lighting, depending on the situation (cleanup, previews, pause, viewing, gaming, warning, etc)
- To actively control a single window shade, again based on situation
- To actively control a powered screen masking system.

I have not yet purchased any additional products other than what is listed above.


The wiring of these is pretty straight forward, with the exceptions noted in my questions.

These are my questions:
1. Is there a better way to control the shade and screen masking system other than grafik eye?

2. If using grafik eye to control my masking system and shading, what other components are necessary?

3. Do I need the GRX-PRG and/or GRX-232 to properly control the lighting, or can I get away with using either the remotes and/or the MSC-400?

4. If using the remotes and/or the msc-400, do I need to run an IR emitter to the grafik eye related to my HT (it will be located in theater, near the front)?

5. In a couple of the other basement rooms, I am using shop-type flourescent lights. From what I understand, as long as I am setting these to values of 0 or 100 light intensity, I should be ok. Am I correct in this assumption?

6. The Dip switches on the workstations are to setup their address on the lutron data connection, but how do I associate them with specific scenes I've programmed into the devices?

7. Since I am wiring two Grafik eyes on the same data chain, how do I differentiate between which zones are 1-4 and which are 5-10 when I program the scenes?

8. Future proofing. Say I want to move to the QS, will I be able to continuing using the same wallstations, or will I need to swap out my entire system?


Thanks in advance.

I have some leftover Grafik Eye wire, approx 19', GRX-CBL-346S. If you want it PM me. Just pay the postage (don't want to see it go to waste). First come, first served.

Thanks for the Offer. I have a 250' roll sitting here I haven't begun using. I don't think I'll use it all (I hope not, lol)

Just got off the phone with tech support. The USB port is not usable. It's there for firmware upgrades only.
Well that's disappointing. Did you ask how one is supposed to program the QS?


IMO the astronomical clock alone is worth the difference between the 3500 and QS. I have a scene defined for minimal pass-through lighting and have it turn on at dusk and off late in the evening. (Same for pre-dawn.)

It's been a while since I've done multiple controller programming or tried to use the older controllers so take what I say with a grain of salt.


3104 4-zone grafik eye
3106 6-zone grafik eye
2 NTGRX-LB6 5-scene wallstations
2 NTGRX-LB9 8-scene wallstations
1 NTGRX-2B-SL 2-button wallstation
First, I think you're making a mistake using the 3100 series instead of the 3500 series. Lutron doesn't even sell the 3100 any more. 3500 has finer control (important in a theater) and a larger command set.

3. Do I need the GRX-PRG and/or GRX-232 to properly control the lighting, or can I get away with using either the remotes and/or the MSC-400?

You need neither to control the lighting, but you really want the GRX-CI-PRG (or older GRX-PRG) driven by Lutron's Liaison software to program the system.

You can do most of the programming through the front panel (not through the IR). But it is really tedious to do it that way and unless you're an expert with a well-documented program plan it's easy to screw up. I don't think you can program inter-controller commands which you need with linked controllers.

The GRX-CI-RS232 & -NWK have only a small subset of commands appropriate to the more primitive 3100 series - ones that I don't find particularly useful - plus a couple. They aren't designed for system setup.

4. If using the remotes and/or the msc-400, do I need to run an IR emitter to the grafik eye related to my HT (it will be located in theater, near the front)?
If I remember correctly, either one but the HT controller is better. The remote selects a scene on the attached controller and the selection may cause a change at the other controller, depending on how you've programmed it.

5. In a couple of the other basement rooms, I am using shop-type flourescent lights. From what I understand, as long as I am setting these to values of 0 or 100 light intensity, I should be ok. Am I correct in this assumption?
No. The fluorescent ballast is still a reactive load. But best to ask Lutron to be sure.

6. The Dip switches on the workstations are to setup their address on the lutron data connection, but how do I associate them with specific scenes I've programmed into the devices?

DIP switches. See the Installation manuals.

7. Since I am wiring two Grafik eyes on the same data chain, how do I differentiate between which zones are 1-4 and which are 5-10 when I program the scenes?

They're not numbered that way because no device outside the controller itself can deal directly with a zone. External devices deal with scenes. How scenes map to zones is the subject of program design.

8. Future proofing. Say I want to move to the QS, will I be able to continuing using the same wallstations, or will I need to swap out my entire system?

They are upwardly compatible. But who knows what the future brings?

Well that's disappointing. Did you ask how one is supposed to program the QS?


IMO the astronomical clock alone is worth the difference between the 3500 and QS. I have a scene defined for minimal pass-through lighting and have it turn on at dusk and off late in the evening. (Same for pre-dawn.)

No, didn't ask. The implication was that all programing is through the front panel.

I think it is clear that the USB port has the ability to program the QS, it's just a question of them getting software to support it, or adapting their current software.

It's also possible I just got the tech support guy who doesn't know anything...

It's been a while since I've done multiple controller programming or tried to use the older controllers so take what I say with a grain of salt.


First, I think you're making a mistake using the 3100 series instead of the 3500 series. Lutron doesn't even sell the 3100 any more. 3500 has finer control (important in a theater) and a larger command set.


You need neither to control the lighting, but you really want the GRX-CI-PRG (or older GRX-PRG) driven by Lutron's Liaison software to program the system.

You can do most of the programming through the front panel (not through the IR). But it is really tedious to do it that way and unless you're an expert with a well-documented program plan it's easy to screw up. I don't think you can program inter-controller commands which you need with linked controllers.

The GRX-CI-RS232 & -NWK have only a small subset of commands appropriate to the more primitive 3100 series - ones that I don't find particularly useful - plus a couple. They aren't designed for system setup.


If I remember correctly, either one but the HT controller is better. The remote selects a scene on the attached controller and the selection may cause a change at the other controller, depending on how you've programmed it.

No. The fluorescent ballast is still a reactive load. But best to ask Lutron to be sure.

DIP switches. See the Installation manuals.

They're not numbered that way because no device outside the controller itself can deal directly with a zone. External devices deal with scenes. How scenes map to zones is the subject of program design.

They are upwardly compatible. But who knows what the future brings?

DMF, thanks for the information. I'm still looking for the manuals on how to program them. I ended up with this stuff because I was offered a deal I couldn't resist. I know they are older, but all of that fit within my current budget very easily and gave me more control over my lighting than a basic IR sensor.

I'll have to see if I can find a grx-prg, but that sounds like it'll accomplish what I need, at least for programming the system. However, from there it sounds like I'll have to use an IR emitter from the msc-400 to the controller in order to select the proper scenes, unless I grab the RS232 so I can us that via the msc-400.

At least that's how I think I understand it...

My GE (6 zone QS) is coming next week, so I got my box ready for it:

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z196/pgmeyer/avspics/DSC_0481.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z196/pgmeyer/avspics/DSC_0485.jpg

I have easy standing access to the attic behind this wall. With the two boxes, I can have nothing in the room facing box except for wires that touch the GE, and no wire nuts at all. I'll do all wiring in the top box.

The room facing box juts out 1" to account for the gpowers style wall panels.

Nice. Looks good. So you decided to go with the double box. sweet! :)

Nice. Looks good. So you decided to go with the double box. sweet! :)

It will definitely make wiring easier.

The main advantage, however, is that it just looks cool!

I'll have to see if I can find a grx-prg, but that sounds like it'll accomplish what I need, at least for programming the system. Don't bother. With the 3100s it's not worth it (unless you want the astronomical clock).

However, from there it sounds like I'll have to use an IR emitter from the msc-400 to the controller in order to select the proper scenes, unless I grab the RS232 so I can us that via the msc-400.
I'd just stick with the emitter.

All sorts of good stuff buried in the Lutron site http://www.lutron.com/CMS400/page.aspx?id=17775
http://files.lutron.com/commercial/3k_Complete.pdf

Paul, that's a nice looking installation. At first glance the lower box looks shallow. Is it the same depth as the upper?

You will need wire nuts. All incoming grounds and neutrals should be joined in the upper box and a single wire of each run down to the lower. You can strip the NM so that the hot is long enough to reach down into the lower, but you could also use THHN (stranded, which is nice and flexible) because of the conduit. If you pigtail into the lower box you'd never need to pull the GE to work on a circuit. (Not sure I'd pigtail the feed hot, but that's just me.)

For 6 zones you'll need 9 wires plus the data line in to the lower box: feed hot, six zone hots, neutral, ground.

You could bring the data line in through one of the center elbow plates to keep it out of the upper box entirely.

If you're bringing Romex (NM) directly into the upper box, don't forget that you need clamps where it enters the box.

Paul...since you're using a metal box, here's suggestion that will save you some potential grief down the road: When you're done, wrap some electrical tape around the GE (across the top, down the side, across the bottom and up the other side). That will save you some surprises.

Paul, that's a nice looking installation. At first glance the lower box looks shallow. Is it the same depth as the upper?

The boxes are identical. The bottom box is shoved 2" into the wall (1" for double dry wall/green glue, 1" to get through the eventual acoustic panel).


You will need wire nuts. All incoming grounds and neutrals should be joined in the upper box and a single wire of each run down to the lower. You can strip the NM so that the hot is long enough to reach down into the lower, but you could also use THHN (stranded, which is nice and flexible) because of the conduit. If you pigtail into the lower box you'd never need to pull the GE to work on a circuit. (Not sure I'd pigtail the feed hot, but that's just me.)

For 6 zones you'll need 9 wires plus the data line in to the lower box: feed hot, six zone hots, neutral, ground.

You could bring the data line in through one of the center elbow plates to keep it out of the upper box entirely.

If you're bringing Romex (NM) directly into the upper box, don't forget that you need clamps where it enters the box.

Understood. My point above is that I wouldn't need any wire nuts in the GE box, they'll all be in the upper box.

My current plan:
- power goes into the top box.
* hot lead extends all the way down to the GE directly.
* neutral/ground connect in the top box, with a pigtail going down to the GE.

- The 6 load connections on the GE are all brought up to the top box. Unused ones are labelled/nutted/taped off.

- All loads connect in the top box. There will be a neutral daisy chain and a ground daisy chain. The hot wires will connect up with the corresponding hot wire from the GE.

- I had planned to have all the data/IR lines go through the top box into the bottom box, but looking at it now, I can't see a reason not to wire them directly into the back of the bottom box.

My current plan is to bolt each box directly to the stud on the right there. Just drill a hole, pop in a bolt from the inside, nut/washer on the far side of the stud, and I'm done. Much simpler/sturdier than the 2x4 hack I had planned, and it leaves me access to the elbow openings.

Paul...since you're using a metal box, here's suggestion that will save you some potential grief down the road: When you're done, wrap some electrical tape around the GE (across the top, down the side, across the bottom and up the other side). That will save you some surprises.

Now that's an interesting hint to drop :rolleyes:. I assume there is some chance of a short of some kind between the sides of the GE and the box?

I'll do it, thanks for the advice.

Now that's an interesting hint to drop :rolleyes:. I assume there is some chance of a short of some kind between the sides of the GE and the box?

I'll do it, thanks for the advice.

Correct... Sparks, bad.

I assume there is some chance of a short of some kind between the sides of the GE and the box?
I've seen it happen (cost the electrician $1000). The other reason, well, ah, hate to admit it but from personal experience ... when you pull the GE out of the box one can be tempted to put one's fingers on the side of the GE to pull on it. That can be an exciting experience.

I've seen it happen (cost the electrician $1000). The other reason, well, ah, hate to admit it but from personal experience ... when you pull the GE out of the box one can be tempted to put one's fingers on the side of the GE to pull on it. That can be an exciting experience.

oh my. very good point, Dennis. Thanks for this advice! I'm installing my 3106 this morning.

....and it leaves me access to the elbow openings.


whew... I'm glad that's your plan. :o I saw the pic, and started to stress. Very clean...nice work. ;)

An even better preventative is to not play with it while the circuit is hot. :p

An even better preventative is to not play with it while the circuit is hot. :p

I didn't even make that connection reading it the first time. No hot, no sparks.:rolleyes:

Although I must admit I've wired a few outlets hot. All the wires were tape wrapped, unwrap them one at a time, connect them up, put a piece of tape over the exposed terminal to minimize zap potential. Lots of use of insulated handle needle nose pliers.

The box for the HT is way around the side of the house, back in the weeds, and there are nettles in there!

(similar post in my build thread, but I thought I should put this in the GE thread as well).

My GE QS 6 zone and Seetouch controller were on my doorstep after dinner tonight. After I put the kids to bed I installed them both. Took about 2 hours.

No issues, works great. The only problem I have now is that I need to replace my can bulbs. They are all random bulbs, different ages, brands, and possibly wattages. They dim differently, which is annoying.

Pictures:

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z196/pgmeyer/avspics/DSC_0546.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z196/pgmeyer/avspics/DSC_0549.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z196/pgmeyer/avspics/DSC_0551.jpg

All the loads, neutral, and ground wired up:

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z196/pgmeyer/avspics/DSC_0553.jpg

Front view with line, the entrance controller PELV, and some PELV to the back box for future IR connection. All the loads/neutral/ground shoved straight through:

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z196/pgmeyer/avspics/DSC_0554.jpg

Back view:

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z196/pgmeyer/avspics/DSC_0557.jpg

Had to remember to leave enough wire bent in the GE box to allow me to pull it later without rewiring:

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z196/pgmeyer/avspics/DSC_0558.jpg

Back view, all wired up neat and tidy. Only three loads for now (cans, rope, step light). The unused loads are nutted/taped off and shoved in the back corner. For the IR, I just used the #18 gauge pair in some of the PELV I'm using as control wire. For now, it just stubs off in the back box, individually wrapped in tape. Once I get my IR setup going, I'll wire some of the control wire over there.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z196/pgmeyer/avspics/DSC_0559.jpg

We have lift-off.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z196/pgmeyer/avspics/DSC_0563.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z196/pgmeyer/avspics/DSC_0564.jpg

It works great. When I flipped on the breaker and came back, the lights were on. I hope it doesn't automatically power on every time the power returns after an outage.

No programming yet. It's set up with the 5 buttons mapped to on, three dimmer levels on all zones, and off. I'll do some programming on Wednesday.

Very nice! I can't wait to get my GE installed, which should be soon. I'm focused on getting the projector mounted, and tidying up my a/v and electrical in the room right now though.

Question on the IR port wiring:

I know the IR wiring needs to have high-voltage sheath, just like the control wire. Does that mean that the other end of the IR wire must end in a junction box? By default, I would just connect it to my Buffalo IR repeater on my rack or behind the screen somewhere, but then I'd have an 'exposed' connection on my IR wired connected into my GE box.

If I do put my IR repeater in a box of some kind and make the connection there, do all the other outputs of the repeater (flashers, the IR receiver) need to be high voltage sheath as well? Or does the code requirement for high voltage sheath end at the first device?

I suppose it must. Otherwise any device that had 120v and a low voltage connection (as most things on my rack do) would have problems.

Paul, build pictures are always appreciated. And special thanks for these. I hadn't seen a QS wired; it is quite different from the older GEs that have their high voltage terminals on the sides.

To me the hardest part of wiring these things is getting two of those tiny stranded wires into each data connector port. :o One is bad enough, but two! In case you hadn't figured it out (it wasn't obvious to me at first) the data connector is actually a plug. Easier to work on it without having to juggle the fixture too.

Question on the IR port wiring:

I know the IR wiring needs to have high-voltage sheath, just like the control wire. Does that mean that the other end of the IR wire must end in a junction box?
No. Just the bit that's in the box with the high-voltage stuff. As soon as it leaves the box (don't forget to clamp it) you can treat it like the lowly low voltage cable that it is, meaning no boxes.

Paul, build pictures are always appreciated. And special thanks for these. I hadn't seen a QS wired; it is quite different from the older GEs that have their high voltage terminals on the sides.


That explains the 'metal box/sparks' comments above. I put a wrap of tape, but I couldn't for the life of my figure out where there was a spark concern.


To me the hardest part of wiring these things is getting two of those tiny stranded wires into each data connector port. :o One is bad enough, but two! In case you hadn't figured it out (it wasn't obvious to me at first) the data connector is actually a plug. Easier to work on it without having to juggle the fixture too.

No, I hadn't figured out that it was a plug! I wired it directly to the box. It wasn't that hard, though. I only had to do one, as I wasn't daisy chaining anything, just one entrance controller. At that point the box was hanging pretty stiffly from the wall by the line connection and all the straight load lines shoved straight back out into the attic.

No. Just the bit that's in the box with the high-voltage stuff. As soon as it leaves the box (don't forget to clamp it) you can treat it like the lowly low voltage cable that it is, meaning no boxes.

That simplifies things. Thanks!

I figured out why my cans weren't dimming equally: two of them had fluorescent bulbs in them! Quickly fixed.

Also, useful note for anybody doing the double box solution: blank 4-gang cover plates are *NOT* easy to find. I couldn't find them at HD or Lowes. The first electrical supply place I went to didn't have them.

At the second place, the guy played on the computer for a while and went back to the racks several times. At first, he found a 4 gang switch plate that would work, with 4 'switch blank' type plugs to fill the switch holes. He said that was a fallback if he couldn't find one. Eventually he found a beige plastic 4-gang blank cover. $6.

Moral of the story: if you order one of the big four gang boxes online to do a double box solution, buy the cover plate at the same time.

Or, make the 'other box' a triple box. You don't really need the full 4-gang box for the second box, although it does give plenty of room.

Okay, so I spent half of Saturday wiring up lighting, and installing my G-E 3106, and a wall station outside of the room. They all work FLAWLESSLY, aside from the fact that I have 4 zones still to complete installs on.

Pointer to those roughing in wiring: Run the power cable on he LEFT side of the gang box (while facing the box). I had run mine on the right side, and my wires were a smidge short for comfort.

Question: For some reason, my Harmony 880 is not controlling the GE, even though I (thought that I...) programmed it to do so. Am I missing some trick? I set a custom command to goto Scene 2 when you hit "Play," and Scene 3 when you hit "Pause," but it does nothing.

Any help with this?

Hey Java,

Did you select the custom scene as the command or did you select play or pause as the command. When you create a sequence you need to select this as the device I believe and then you will have a listing of the sequences which you created.

Hey Java,

Did you select the custom scene as the command or did you select play or pause as the command. When you create a sequence you need to select this as the device I believe and then you will have a listing of the sequences which you created.

I just set up commands in the 'Light Controller' menus at the Harmony site for programming my remote... I think it's called 'device modes.' Maybe I'm missing something, or need some sort of macro?

I'm not able to log in right now to see what it looks like (been a while) but you need to go into the activity you want to set and select customize buttons. At the bottom their should be an "add a sequence" command. Once in this page it will allow to set up a sequence with the devices in that activity, so device DVD player command play, device Light controller command lights off. I would name this sequence Play Lghts Off so not to confuse it with just play. Then you go back to customize buttons and now you tell the hard button function "play" to use device "sequence" and then the command would be "Play Lghts Off". Hope this helps.

You can also have a Pause sequence...which can automagically bring the lights up when you press "pause"

You can also have a Pause sequence...which can automagically bring the lights up when you press "pause"

Precisely what I'm attempting. Thanks gents, I'll poke around with sequences.

A couple questions for the experts:

I own a Marantz RC9001 remote control along with the RX9001 control processor. I bought a Graffik Eye 2404 to control it with my remote:

1. Can I connect my Graffik Eye to the RX9001 via rs232 or I'll have to place an IR emitter on the outside plate to be able to control it?

2. My Graffik Eye on the back plate says "1234" and has some kind of sponge. Is this where the cable (a Cat5 for example from the processor) attaches to the Graffik Eye?

I'm new to this, but I've already hire a professional to program the control. I just want to if I bought the right Graffik Eye.

Thanks in advance,

You might try reading the installation instructions that came with your unit. They cover most installation options.

Gah I'm still stumped on the controlling of my 3106 by my Harmony 880. I set up sequences, for when I press PLAY and PAUSE, but the lighting doesn't change. I'm either doing it wrong, or I'm missing some IR component possibly for the 3106?

Can someone give me some pointers? Here's a screenshot of the harmony page where I set up some sequences...
http://www.javadocs.net/pix/basement/harmony-sequence.jpg

Do I need to use the "drain wire" I am trying to get my GE 3106 in place today. I have one wall station and the GE control wire. I have learned the the wires in the shielding are the MUX wires and the other two are power. I can put them in any order as long as it is the same on each end...the 2 mux go to 3/4 and the red and black to 1/2. but I still have the drain wire. Is the drain wire not required in a single wall station setup. I am thinking this is the case from what I am reading, but I figure it is always best to get confirmation. Thanks.

Do I need to use the "drain wire" I am trying to get my GE 3106 in place today. I have one wall station and the GE control wire. I have learned the the wires in the shielding are the MUX wires and the other two are power. I can put them in any order as long as it is the same on each end...the 2 mux go to 3/4 and the red and black to 1/2. but I still have the drain wire. Is the drain wire not required in a single wall station setup. I am thinking this is the case from what I am reading, but I figure it is always best to get confirmation. Thanks.

On the 6 zone QS and a see touch controller, I did not use the 5th wire. The power, ground, and the twisted pair were all I wired up.

On the 6 zone QS and a see touch controller, I did not use the 5th wire. The power, ground, and the twisted pair were all I wired up.

Yeah after reading the manual 5 time I saw the fine print that mentioned the bare wire is only to be used if I have a "d" port thingy to put it into...I know, real technical there.:D

So yeah, I didnt use it either and everything turned out great. Now I need to program the thing.

Just want to confirm something as being normal...I have done no programming yet of my 3106, but I have messed with it and want to make sure that the clicking I hear when it turn on and then off is normal. not while dimming, just a click on and then when going to full off, click. Just need the piece of mind that this is normal, it seems normal, but you know how that goes.

Both my 3106 and 3104 do the same thing. My guess is there's a relay that switches off the power to all the zones when you hit the master off button.

Okay, I figured out the 'sequence' thing by using my ginormous brain. Okay... my 13yr old daughter helped. ;)

I had made the sequences correctly, but instead of sending a "Play" command from the remote, you have to change the 'Play' command to be the sequence named "play," or whatever you named it. It works great. I also got it to send a power toggle upon exiting the DVD activity, so that my Panny PJ will power down.

Sweet, the lighting control made my day!

I set it to bring some lights up a bit when I hit "Mute" but I need to figure out a way to get it to dim them again after I hit "Mute" again. I know.. it's a remote issue, and not a GE issue.

Okay, I figured out the 'sequence' thing by using my ginormous brain. Okay... my 13yr old daughter helped. ;)

I had made the sequences correctly, but instead of sending a "Play" command from the remote, you have to change the 'Play' command to be the sequence named "play," or whatever you named it. It works great. I also got it to send a power toggle upon exiting the DVD activity, so that my Panny PJ will power down.

Make sure you put a delay in to allow the projector to run the fans and cool off before shutting down completely.



Sweet, the lighting control made my day!

I set it to bring some lights up a bit when I hit "Mute" but I need to figure out a way to get it to dim them again after I hit "Mute" again. I know.. it's a remote issue, and not a GE issue.

The sequences, how do you make them? Did you create 3-4 scenes in your grafik eye, then macro them together on the remote, or is there something in the grafik eye that allows you to do multiple things together in a single scene (turn one zone off instantly, bring another zone up using the dimmer capability).

I haven't programmed my controllers yet. I'm going to begin doing that this weekend. :D

Will, you first program your scenes on the GE. Then, you create sequences when programming the remote. So for my "Play" sequence, I have it sending a play command to the DVD player, and setting the lighting to Scene 2, which I just have some basic floor lighting on.

Ok, that's what i thought I needed to do, but I wasn't positive. Wish I had more than 16 scenes available in it. Although, I do have a GRX-RS232 and I haven't yet begun to figure out what I can do beyond using the scenes or programming that up.

Yeah after reading the manual 5 time I saw the fine print that mentioned the bare wire is only to be used if I have a "d" port thingy to put it into...I know, real technical there.:D

You shouldn't "not use" the drain wire. It is attached to the foil shield inside the jacket of the cable and should be tied to Ground at one point and one point only along the cable run. If you have two data cables terminating at the same station or control unit (a daisy chain) the two drain wires should be spliced to each other. The single Ground connection could be at either end or in the middle.

I like to ground the drain where the power supply for the logic bus is. The GE itself will provide enough power for 3 (?) additional units like wall stations. More than that and you need to add an external 12V wall wart (transformer)*. I connect the drain to the same ground as the GE or the wall wart (if there is one).


* Radio Shack has a 12V 1A wall wart for about $18. Electrically the same as Lutron would supply for much more.

You shouldn't "not use" the drain wire. It is attached to the foil shield inside the jacket of the cable and should be tied to Ground at one point and one point only along the cable run. If you have two data cables terminating at the same station or control unit (a daisy chain) the two drain wires should be spliced to each other. The single Ground connection could be at either end or in the middle.

I like to ground the drain where the power supply for the logic bus is. The GE itself will provide enough power for 3 (?) additional units like wall stations. More than that and you need to add an external 12V wall wart (transformer)*. I connect the drain to the same ground as the GE or the wall wart (if there is one).


* Radio Shack has a 12V 1A wall wart for about $18. Electrically the same as Lutron would supply for much more.

So when the manual says to connect the drain to D but I dont have one, I need to connect to a ground? Why in the world are they so vague on this? What does the drain actually do? I have just the one wall station with no external power, just from the GE. Is this an electrical grounding? Now that everything is nicely in place I would hate to go having to pull things out, but if I really do need at least one end grounded, I will connect the drain at my wall station to the ground/bare copper for that comes for my normal dimmer that is in there. I have to replace the one that is in there now, so thjis would be the easier of the two since i dont feel like screwing with the 40 million wires in the box at the GE 3106.

Just installed the 3106 as one of the last parts in finishing the electrical phase as I build my HT.

This thing is incredibly sharp and is absolutely cool!

So when the manual says to connect the drain to D but I dont have one, I need to connect to a ground? Why in the world are they so vague on this? What does the drain actually do? I have just the one wall station with no external power, just from the GE. Is this an electrical grounding?
I rather think they expect the installer to have a more sophisticated understanding of electrical engineering than many installers do. The foil shield is just like the shield in your audio cables. If it's not grounded then the ambient electromagnetic fields can create a voltage potential between the shield and the signal wires. That voltage differential also has an electrical field and represents leakage of the fields outside the shield. The result is noise - maybe not at the full intensity you would get with the absence of a shield, but noise nonetheless.

Think of it this way. An ungrounded shield is less effective than a properly grounded one. Do you really need to ground it? No way to say. You could be fine with a floating ground. On a data line it's kinda hard to tell.

FYI, grounding at more than one point introduces the potential for ground loops.

Now that everything is nicely in place I would hate to go having to pull things out, but if I really do need at least one end grounded, I will connect the drain at my wall station to the ground/bare copper for that comes for my normal dimmer that is in there.
I would connect it. A foreign ground isn't optimal, but in theory it is at the same potential as the ground for the GE, especially if they're on the same breaker.

Aluminium foil shields are not helpful for electromagnetic induced problems (if you actually have any).

Aluminium foil shields are not helpful for electromagnetic induced problems (if you actually have any).

...but they sure keep the alien mind control messages from getting in my head. :D

I rather think they expect the installer to have a more sophisticated understanding of electrical engineering than many installers do. The foil shield is just like the shield in your audio cables. If it's not grounded then the ambient electromagnetic fields can create a voltage potential between the shield and the signal wires. That voltage differential also has an electrical field and represents leakage of the fields outside the shield. The result is noise - maybe not at the full intensity you would get with the absence of a shield, but noise nonetheless.

Think of it this way. An ungrounded shield is less effective than a properly grounded one. Do you really need to ground it? No way to say. You could be fine with a floating ground. On a data line it's kinda hard to tell.

FYI, grounding at more than one point introduces the potential for ground loops.


I would connect it. A foreign ground isn't optimal, but in theory it is at the same potential as the ground for the GE, especially if they're on the same breaker.

I was just reading in the manual and after missing it about 5 times I found a part where it says, "If shielded wire is used, the drain wires must be connected to each other or to Terminal D, if present. Drain wires should not be connected to earth/ground." I have just one wall station and the 3106, the way I read it is that since I do not have a terminal D I should not connect the drain wire to anything because the only thing left is the earth ground... Is this right?

I've got my GE 6-zone QS integrated with my setup now. A few things I learned might be helpful to others:

1) the IR input port polarity *does* seem to matter for me. At one point during my setup debug, I had the mini-plug to GE polarity reversed ('comm' connected to the tip of the miniplug rather than the sheath). At that point, the GE control didn't work. When I reversed the polarity, it did, nothing else changing.

The polarity that worked for me (connecting to my Buffalo IR block via mono-mini-plug) was IR-Data to the mini-plug tip, IR-Comm to the mini-plug sheath.

This makes sense (mini-plug sheath is typically 'ground'), but seems to contradict what somebody above heard from Lutron support (that polarity didn't matter). YMMV.

2) When I first connected my GE to the Buffalo IR block as a flasher, all the flashers in my system (and the green LED on the block) went solid on, indicating a ground problem or major noise in the system. IR control still worked to some devices, but it was flaky. Poking around, I realized that if I touched the outer metal of my IR receiver (they 'eye'), the flashers all went off. I wasn't grounded, so it seemed like a capacitive issue.

For the heck of it, I tried running a separate ground wire (from a nearby receptacle on the same circuit as the IR repeater, different circuit from the GE) to the outer case of my IR receiver eye. It worked. All the flashers went off, and my IR control works fine for everything.

When in doubt, try playing with grounds.

3) I got my Harmony remote programmed up. The advice above worked:

pick the activity you are interested in
go to 'customize buttons'
click 'add a sequence'
create a sequence labeled 'play'
- add step 'lights' -> 'scene 2'
- add step 'PS3' -> 'play'

Assign the 'play' button to the 'sequence' 'play'


I set it up so that 'play' triggers scene 2 (all off except dim rope lights and step lights), 'pause' triggers scene 3 (medium lights for getting around without blasting your eyes.

I also went in and added 'lights' and 'dim' as the bottom two touch screen buttons in each of the activities.

When I tried it out, I realized two things:
1) I need to add 'scene 3' to the STOP button as well, and
2) When I'm done with a movie or cable, I typically just hit the Harmony 'power off' button, which turns off the ps3/rs20/receiver. This was leaving the lights off.

So, I went back and added a stop sequence just like play and pause.

I also went into each of my activities, found the 'when you leave this activity' section, and added a 'lights' -> 'scene 3' command. If I power down, lights should now come up.

Minor problem, if I switch from one activity (DVD) to another (Cable), the lights will come up. Since I have a 'dim' touch screen button on the front page of each activity, this is only a minor inconvenience.

Hope this saves somebody else a bit of debugging. I spent about four frustrating hours yesterday debugging the polarity/noise issue...

Good stuff Pmeyer,

I'm using buffalo IR reciever with my xantech block and they work great but I am getting some flashing of my IR emitters and sometimes they are lit solid. They respond fine, I haven't had an issue with missed commands and I discovered that they are sensitve to regular lighting. If my lights are dim the emitters will blink, if they are all the way up they appear to be on solid but are probably blinking really fast. With the lights off no blinking.

Just to be clear, you ran the ground which is part of the voltage and signal connection and then ran a seperate ground to the outer metal case. I'll have to try this and see if it has any effect on my receivers.

Also to solve your lights rising up issue between commands you should set your lights to a setting of always on. It seems like when you come in you pick your own command or you can still send a scene command at the start of your most common activities. I have mine set to always on and my GE is at the entrance of my HT so I get to pick my command, switching between activities leaves the lighting right where it's at.

Good stuff Pmeyer,
Just to be clear, you ran the ground which is part of the voltage and signal connection and then ran a seperate ground to the outer metal case. I'll have to try this and see if it has any effect on my receivers.


This is correct. Between the IR receiver and the IR 'amplifier' or whatever, I have a 30' Cat5 run. The v+ and signal share one twisted pair, and ground has both wires of another twisted pair (as recommended by Buffalo). With this, I get lots of noise when I plug in my GE.

If I run a separate 3' ground from my IR receiver 'eye' casing to a nearby outlet, my noise problem disappears. No idea why.


Also to solve your lights rising up issue between commands you should set your lights to a setting of always on. It seems like when you come in you pick your own command or you can still send a scene command at the start of your most common activities. I have mine set to always on and my GE is at the entrance of my HT so I get to pick my command, switching between activities leaves the lighting right where it's at.

I don't think I followed that.

What I really want is:
1) When I walk in the theater, I hit the button and turn on the lights (Scene #1)
2) When I enter an activity for the first time (warming up the projector, etc.) the lights are not affected, or go to scene #1.
3) When I hit play, the lights go dim. (scene #2)
4) When I switch from one activity to another, lights stay dim.
5) When I quit (leave an activity without entering another), lights go up.

The problem I have now is that I don't see a way to tie something to the 'power off' button. I can tie a light command to leaving or entering an activity, but if I do that it's hard to get both 4 and 5.

Thinking about it since the original post, I'm not sure it's really a problem. When I switch activities (e.g. going from TV to a DVD) I probably want the lights to come up anyway. I'll be futzing around finding a channel, or putting in a DVD, or whatever. I can hit the dim button (or play) when I'm ready to go.

I'll even map the 'play' button to dim the lights in normal TV watching mode, to be consistent.

Ok, I thought the lights coming up between activities would be an issue but they might be in your favor if like you said you'll need to get a DVD or something.

Hmm... now that I think about it, if you don't set the lights to "always on" when you exit an activity by hitting off you will raise your lights then go to off. So lights going up at the end of an activity should also work if you set lights to always on and then add the command at the end of every activity to raise lights to your desired scene when exiting.
I know your going to the desired scene by hitting stop but if your watching live tv you wouldn't necessarily hit off.

It's been a while since I've gone in to do programming but I believe this is what you need to get the lights to raise and stay on when you hit off. I take it your lights are turning off when you hit off?

It's been a while since I've gone in to do programming but I believe this is what you need to get the lights to raise and stay on when you hit off. I take it your lights are turning off when you hit off?

Actually, I haven't tested my latest setup, so I'm not sure.

What I expect to happen right now: if I'm in an activity and I hit 'off', the lights will come up (as I've got a 'scene 3' command in the exit routine for every activity).

I think that actually works just fine for me, so I'm good to go.

The only limitation is that if I didn't want lights to come up when switching from one activity to another, I'm not sure how to make that work. When leaving one activity, the lights come up. I could put 'dim' in the enter routine of each activity, but then when I walk in, turn on the lights, and hit the 'Watch DVD' activity, the lights would dim. Since it'll take a few minutes for the projector to come on and for me to load the DVD, I don't normally want that.

What I really need is an awareness in the 'enter'/'exit' routines as to whether I'm coming from/going to another activity, or from/to 'idle'.

No biggie.

The only limitation is that if I didn't want lights to come up when switching from one activity to another, I'm not sure how to make that work. When leaving one activity, the lights come up. I could put 'dim' in the enter routine of each activity, but then when I walk in, turn on the lights, and hit the 'Watch DVD' activity, the lights would dim. Since it'll take a few minutes for the projector to come on and for me to load the DVD, I don't normally want that.



I guess you have to think of what would be preferred having the lights always come up when exiting an activity or having them stay where they are at and then selecting a preffered or necessary scene once you get into the activity.

I would likely go from watching a DVD to watching live TV or something on my DVR vs. the other way around. So I wouldn't have to get up to fiddle with anything. At the same time though I have the option on the remote screen to go right the scene I need.

The other thing I'm thinking is if you duplicating the sequence commands across activities for consistency and your hitting stop on the remote and go to a lighted scene then your lights will stay raised if you have the power setting set to always on when leaving the activity. That should be the case when leaving an activity for another or off. Different ways to do it I suppose just have to figure out which way is best for you. Good Luck.

Aluminium foil shields are not helpful for electromagnetic induced problems (if you actually have any).

True. It would have to be a ferrous material. Are you suggesting that the foil shields in the cable are not shields?

"If shielded wire is used, the drain wires must be connected to each other or to Terminal D, if present. Drain wires should not be connected to earth/ground."

That's news to me. Perhaps the say that to avoid the ground loop issue. Or perhaps they use a floating ground (though what difference that would make with only one end connected I don't know).

I suggest you contact Lutron Tech Support on this one. In the meantime might as well leave it unconnected.

Edit:
They intend that the drain wire be grounded, but only in one location. That is, where there is a Terminal D (which if I recall correctly is on the control unit).

Actually, I haven't tested my latest setup, so I'm not sure.

What I expect to happen right now: if I'm in an activity and I hit 'off', the lights will come up (as I've got a 'scene 3' command in the exit routine for every activity).

I think that actually works just fine for me, so I'm good to go.

The only limitation is that if I didn't want lights to come up when switching from one activity to another, I'm not sure how to make that work. When leaving one activity, the lights come up. I could put 'dim' in the enter routine of each activity, but then when I walk in, turn on the lights, and hit the 'Watch DVD' activity, the lights would dim. Since it'll take a few minutes for the projector to come on and for me to load the DVD, I don't normally want that.

What I really need is an awareness in the 'enter'/'exit' routines as to whether I'm coming from/going to another activity, or from/to 'idle'.

No biggie.

You can lock out which ever zones you don't want touched for a particular scene. As for time, you can add quite a bit of time to the dimmer, but you are really talking about a combination of macro programming to get the timing right and the scene transition to have the lights do what you want them to.

So, there's two pieces:
1. the lights do what you want
2. the action occurs when you want.

I've searched but couldn't quite find a good answer. Is it possible to use a Grafik Eye with a table lamp on a switched receptacle?

A grafix eye controls an AC circuit. A table lamp plugged into a receptacle is an AC circuit. From technical standpoint you could use a GE to do this. But from an electrical code standpoint you're not supposed to do this. Mainly because someone could accidentally plug in something like a vacuum cleaner to something else that would be harmed by, or cause harm to, the dimmer circuit. I believe there are special plugs and outlets you can get for use in such situations. That way only the lamp with that plug could be used in that outlet, not a regular AC appliance.

Am I fooling myself thinking I can fit a Grafik Eye controller into a Carlon Super Blue box?

Am I fooling myself thinking I can fit a Grafik Eye controller into a Carlon Super Blue box?

Yup. Absolutely.

Hi

I made a post here about using a Grafik Eye and the CoolSky LED Fibre Optic light engine together:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1111388

...however, nobody has replied yet so I'm not sure anybody (besides the chap I mentioned) is really using it.

Does anybody know how it might be possible for a GE to dim this unit natively? The person in question (FineDesign) indicates that (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=989244) the GE fully controls his CoolSky light engine...

Could it be that he is using a Grafik Eye Integrale (or whatever it's called), i.e. the Lutron GE that includes support for LED and other "difficult" lighting sources natively?

My understanding is that in order to dim this, (if indeed it is even possible) I would have to buy a LUT-LBX (ballast) to add minimum load to the circuit?

Also, this unit (like most LED units I suppose) is DC driven, not AC driven. If the GE dims the socket into which the CoolSky AC->DC transformer is plugged, can this actually affect the low-voltage output from the DC transformer? As you can tell, I'm not an electrician :-)

I'm using a 3106 if that helps...

Thanks for any advice!

CSO - I know this has probably been covered in this thread before, but I just watched my electrician connect my 4 zone grafik eye, and trust me even he was happy to have the depth of the recommended raco masonry box.
It's so sweet now that it's hooked up...the electrician was a bit giddy about how it works.

I'm planning on putting a Grafik Eye into my workshop. I'm looking at the 6 zone QSG-6P-120. On the setup I'm planning on putting 19 65 watt can lights, 6 scone like side lights (75 watts each). This will put me at 1650-1700 watts on a 20 amp circuit. I know a 20 amp can handle up to 1920 watts safely, but I've always been told no more than 15 lights on a 20 amp circuit. Am I being too cautious or should I really try to split this to two separate circuits?

Thanks,
Matt

I'm planning on putting a Grafik Eye into my workshop. I'm looking at the 6 zone QSG-6P-120. On the setup I'm planning on putting 19 65 watt can lights, 6 scone like side lights (75 watts each). This will put me at 1650-1700 watts on a 20 amp circuit. I know a 20 amp can handle up to 1920 watts safely, but I've always been told no more than 15 lights on a 20 amp circuit. Am I being too cautious or should I really try to split this to two separate circuits?

Thanks,
Matt

You are fine as long as the maximum rated bulb is 65 for the cans and 75 for the sconces. The concern being someone could change the bulbs to a igher wattage and over draw the circuit.

You are fine as long as the maximum rated bulb is 65 for the cans and 75 for the sconces. The concern being someone could change the bulbs to a igher wattage and over draw the circuit.

I'm guessing the cans will be not be rated for 100 watt bulbs. You can check the labels. If they are not, then the person putting in 100 watt bulbs would have bigger problems than blowing fuses every time he turns on the lights.

I'd say don't worry about it. In a few years, everything will be LED or fluorescent bulbs anyway which will pull less power.

Here is a retrofit installation of a 3 lighting zone Lutron Grafik Eye that I did recently. I am not an electrician, so I won't pretend that this is a tutorial. Rather it is how I installed my GE.

Picture 1: The existing 3 gang switch bank.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit1.JPG

Picture 2: Turn off the breaker and remove the switches. Bend the wires as straight as possible.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit2.JPG

Picture 3: Carefully destroy the existing switch box so that it can be removed. Tin snips work well here.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit3.JPG

Picture 4: The existing wall box comes out in pieces.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit4.JPG

Picture 5: Box removal is slow going. Be careful to not damage the wires.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit5.JPG

Picture 6: Eventually the box will come out.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit6.JPG

Picture 7: Enlarge the opening to fit the 4 gang Raco 698 masonry box.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit7.JPG

Picture 8: Prepare the box. Put the cable clamps inside the box.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit8.JPG

Picture 9: Yes the clamps are tightly installed inside the box. I know, clamps are normally installed outside the box.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit9.JPG

Picture 10: Begin installing the box in the wall. Be sure the clamps are as wide open as possible.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit10.JPG

Picture 11: The box fits in the wall. I used 2 screws in the side to fasten it to the right stud. Tighten the wire clamps once the box is in place Here, I've pulled a conduit up from the basement, and there is a yellow low voltage control wire entering the box.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit11.JPG

Picture 12: Red heat shrink tubing is placed over the yellow wire. This is to give the jacket a higher voltage rating.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit12.JPG

Picture 13: The gap around the box is caulked giving it a neater appearance. The opening has to be a little oversized to allow manipulation of the box into the wall.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit13.JPG

Picture 14: Bond the all the grounds together. Bond all the whites together. Here I've used extra large blue wire nuts, and the pig tails coming from these connections to the Grafik Eye are stranded 12 gauge. The stranded wire is much easier to bend when it is time to install the Grafik Eye.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit14.JPG

Picture 15: All the leads are pig tailed with stranded wire which will eventually connect to the Grafik Eye.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit15.JPG

Picture 16: Making the connections to the Grafik Eye with the stranded wire. I couldn't imagine doing this in a shallower box or with solid core wire.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit16.JPG

Picture 17: Device mounted in the wall.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit17.JPG

Picture 18: Very cool, especially at night.
http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/LutronGERetrofit18.JPG

Now, my next task is to connect the low voltage control wire and install the occupancy sensor. Eventually shades will be part of the installation.

Looks awesome, great idea using stranded wire. I'm having the same issue right now, can't get the wires to bend while pushing the lutron into the box. Thanks!

Nice job, great install.

Very nice job!

I really like the idea of inverting the clamps, and using stranded pigtails was sharp thinking, too. (Did you read one of my old posts. ;))

I bet that old box was a real PITA to get out. I had to do something similar to add a fourth switch and I ended up opening the whole wall (largely to get a hanger in between the studs to support the new plastic box - yet another reason to use metal!). Cutting out the old box was rivaled only by pulling an armored cable down through an outside wall where there was only 2" of clearance on top of the plate and no assistant to stick with the job. http://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/style_emoticons/bb/bleh.gif

Do you know if the new 3-zone GE (QS?) is the same size as the 6-zone GE (QS?)? In the older series they're smaller.


I'm going to try to link this post to a page one article so it won't disappear over time. Will the pictures be hosted for long?

I read this before I installed my grafik eye and talked to the city electical inspector. He said mixing the solid core with stranded is a code violation. I ended up using solid core wire and it went in just fine. The key was getting the insulation stripped back as far as possible. Again, that's just what he said. I needed to pass the inspection to close out my permits so I didn't argue. I would've just went with stranded myself. :)

My inspector also said you can not mix solid and stranded wire.

I agree with above.

I had room to spare in my box.

The keys:

Run the wires into the box close to where they will be attached to the Grafik eye.
Be aggressive in stripping the wire to leave yourself plenty of room

Be prepared to carefully bend wires into place.

The grafik eye isn't super deep but most of us run a LOT of wires into it...it can get difficult.

The grafik eye isn't super deep but most of us run a LOT of wires into it...it can get difficult.

I have a blue plastic box which looked pretty small but the inspector measured and insisted I'd have, "plenty of room". It was alot tougher than that to get it all in there! It would've been worth the extra cost for a deeper metal box for sure. :)

I'm trying to control my GRX-3106 connected with a GRX-IRI using a handheld URC remote control, in RF mode, but not having any success. For the record, my URC handheld remote is an MX-850, and the system's RF translator/repeater station is an MRF-300. The pathway is MX-850 --(RF) --> MRF-300 --(IR) --> GRX-IRI --(MUX)--> GRX-3106.

I read where others were successful doing this same thing using Harmony RF repeater products, but my question is has anyone been able to use URC's RF products to control their Grafik Eye? The pathway works fine if I use the URC handlheld in IR mode and send the commands aimed directly into the GRX-IRI. This tells me the GRX-IRI and Grafik Eye unit are talking correctly. But, when I switch to RF mode and send the same commands through MRF station to the GRX-IRI, no success. It's like URC cannot translate this signal from RF to IR, whereas Harmony seems capable of doing so. I'm also experiencing the same problem on my Makita Motorized Drapery -- IR mode works fine, RF does not work at all.

...found my problem, had to reverse polarity on the 2-wire blaster. Seems polarity matters when connecting onto a MRF distribution block. Thanks to Mike at Surf Remote for the tip.

I am finally ready to order my GE QS. All of the information I've gathered over many months of research has come primarily from AVS and specifically this thread. As a result, I figured I'd give AVS the first crack at earning my business. I emailed AVS for a price quote on the QS and a wallstation, but learned that AVS doesn't sell the QS. There were a couple of other retailers mentioned in this thread, but I can't find them - kind of stumped at the search feature. Who are some of the retailers (online and otherwise) that you've used for the QS?

Thanks

I have a blue plastic box which looked pretty small but the inspector measured and insisted I'd have, "plenty of room". It was alot tougher than that to get it all in there! It would've been worth the extra cost for a deeper metal box for sure. :)

Which GRX and which box did you use? Is it possible to get a 4 zone GRX into a Carlon Blue Super Box? I'd rather not chop it out if I don't have to. Any issues with noise?

I only need approx 75 ft. of the LV cable for my remote pads to connect to my 3106. Where can I find the LV cable by the foot...or just a 100 foot spool?

My inspector also said you can not mix solid and stranded wire.

He said mixing the solid core with stranded is a code violation.

My experience is that debating logical interpretation of NEC with an inspector is a useless endeavor, so I understand just doing what the inspector says to pass inspection. However, I would be curious to see where in the NEC connecting solid and stranded wire is prohibited--provided that all the connectors are rated for solid and stranded conductors and when the stranded wire is housed in a grounded metal box.

Just think of the millions of light fixtures that are wired with stranded wire and then wire nutted to the house's NM (solid) wiring. Tell me that's a violation of NEC.

I only need approx 75 ft. of the LV cable for my remote pads to connect to my 3106. Where can I find the LV cable by the foot...or just a 100 foot spool?

I am also in pursuit of this Lutron's LV wire. A Google search shows that HanksElectric.com (http://www.hankselectric.com/item171603.ctlg) sells it by the foot.

Hello Grafik Eye experts,
I need some advice on a non home theater installation of a Grafik Eye controller. I plan on using the controller for several accent lights on the exterior of my house creating various lighting scenes. The outside lights include coach lights, soffit lights, a yard post light, etc. My question relates to GFCI protection for the yard post light. Should the whole system be on a dedicated GFCI circuit via a breaker, or should the post light have its own GFCI protection? See my simplified wiring diagram below.

http://home.comcast.net/~corthoefer/house/Post%20light.jpg

I think option B affords the most protection for the Grafik Eye controller with regards to the post light, but I want to be able to dim the post light. I'm not sure it is wise to dim a load on a dead front GFCI.

Thoughts?

P.S. By dead front GFCI, I mean the type of GFCI used on pools or whirlpool tubs. It's a single gang device mounted in the wall like an outlet, but has no receptalces.

Update: I wired things up to try out the different scenarios. First, I can attest to the fact that a Grafik Eye controller works fine when fed by a GFCI breaker. Second, a GFCI on the output of the Grafik Eye only affords protection when the Grafik Eye is not dimming the load. So my options are to either not use a GFCI on the output of the Grafik Eye (this pertains to the yard post light load) or to use the GFCI on the output, but redefine the zone as a no dim zone. Incidentally, Leviton makes a GFCI that is supposedly suitable for placement on the output of a dimmer, but it is not a standard 1 gang GFCI, and it retails for >$100.

CSO - Thanks for the link...I contacted them and got what I needed.

the city electical inspector ... said mixing the solid core with stranded is a code violation.

My inspector also said you can not mix solid and stranded wire.

First, in practical terms that's a crock. Every fixture made uses stranded, as mentioned.

Second, next time someone runs into this, agree to make the changes requested. Then ask the inspector to cite the rule being enforced. It's possible that this isn't an issue with the NEC at all. Local jurisdictions don't have to use the NEC and some don't. It may be purely a local thing.

It does not apply to terminal electrical devices (ie: lighting, etc.) only to using it in runs....at least according to what I have been told.

If you use it in runs, it has to be in conduit. Maybe that's what they were objecting to?

Phew. Never knew it would be this complicated :). I have read the thread and my head is still spinning. So may choices is seems. And sinc eit was started so long ago, apparently there's a lot of new options (e.g. QS)

Can someone give me a nudge in the right direction? I need ligiting control for a theater room, 4 ligiting zones is all I can think of, so planning on six to be safe. No shade control necessary. I'd like to control the lights via a URC MSC-400. I prefer no (external) IR repeaters on any wall panels, however if it saved substantially, I can live with them. The room has 3 entrances. I figured I can place the main unit near the main entrance, for the other 2 entrances I just need an on and a all-off control.

I am presuming I need the QS if for no other reason than the IR input. But I'm not sure. Can someone tell me which Lutron components I need for this situation? Of course in the most economical-to-fit-needs selections.

Thanks.

Scott try the GRX-3104 4 zones this is the unit I have and what I found for Brian, does everything I want and has none of the extras I don't need, give me a call if you have any additional questions.

Wayne

Know if it will do LV control? Does it have a IR input (wired)?

Know if it will do LV control? Does it have a IR input (wired)?

Mine has a low voltage control switch attached, it is located at the top of the stairs so I can turn on the lights in the theater before going down. From what I remember it does not have a ir input, mine has the emitter coming out of the wall just beneath it and stuck to the face over the ir receiver, easy enough.

Correct. The pre-QS series had no wired IR input, though they did (do) have external IR pickup accessories that wire into the data bus.

I called Lutron and had a couple chats with their Tech support / sales folks. My description of those conversations is they are really "up" on the RadioRA line vs Graphic Eye. I tried to steer the selection to Graphic Eye, but we seemed to keep ending back on RadioRA. They never brought up the QS line. The tech guy was big on the advantages of R-RA. Something about a better ability to deal with individual zones from a keypad. But honestly I didn't grasp what he was getting at. I will say that I threw in that I plan to use a URC MSC-400 into the mix. With that I get some programmable intelligence which I think might substitute some GE functionality. I've got an appointment to meet with the local Lutron Rep tomorrow. Maybe she can explain better.

I have read through the first 10 pgs of this thread and I still have a couple of questions. I see there are some good deals on 3104 + 3106 systems on fleabay. How has the experience been buying these off of ebay. All of the units on there seem to be white bottom and translucent top. Is it practical to change them to a black bottom with translucent top?

The savings on ebay are quite signicant compared to even discount retail. I really don't want a white one though

Thanks for any help.
Sorry if this was already covered elsewhere

I was in the same boat as you gobrigavitch...all the auction sites were selling white GE models, and I wanted a black faceplate. I was able to get a NIB 4 zone GE from an auction for less than a 1/4 of what the full retail price would have been. I found a pretty decent site that sells any kind of replacement faceplate you want for roughly $50:

http://www.electricsuppliesonline.com/

Even adding in the cost of a new faceplate (which is pretty expensive for a piece of plastic that probably costs 5 cents to manufacture), I still came in way under cost. Without going this route, I never would have been able to afford the GE.

Hope this helps!

OK, I met with the rep. Lots of information, and eye candy, too :)

My initial take on her input was this:

GE 3000 series - 16 zones including keypads. Interface req'd to do IR into back of unit. 3500 can be programmed via PC and RS232.

GE QS series - newer, + aesthetics, some added functionality (shades).

Radio RA-SR - new single room version of Radio-RA. Apparently you have the ability to control 16 scenes via rs-232, AND independently program a different button behavior on an individual dimmer for the zone it controls. Would be good for my 3 entryways. No hardwiring needed, these talk to each other wirelessly. Good for retrofit, and easier to install it sounds like. Required control unit and control unit can be controlled via RS232 or IP, but NOT IR. RA-SR can have 10 devices including dimmers and keypads max. 30' limitation between devices, but she claims that is very conservative. I have not priced differences, but I must say wireless is attractive. And I can do the RS232 control via my URC remote and it's MSC-400.

Anyone know the cons to the Radio RA-SR vs. the GE?

The only thing I could think of so far is I understand the GE can be "locked" so the kids don't accidentallly screw up a scene, but I'm not sure about RA-SR. Apparently the programming sequence is obfuscated enough it won't happen accidentally. Not sure if this is an issue or not.

$$ ?

Seems to me that only real difference (besides RF v. IR) is that the wallstations don't need the data cable. If that's true, how do they get their power?

$$ ?

Seems to me that only real difference (besides RF v. IR) is that the wallstations don't need the data cable. If that's true, how do they get their power?I have a "stater kit" scheduled for delivery on Monday. Hopefully during the week I can assemble a little "test" setup to learn about it in more detail. I'll post more then or start a dedicated thread. I think the started kit retails for about $1000, it included 4 dimmers, 1 5-button control, and the RS232/Ethernet addressable control. As I understand it the button units get wired with normal wiring for a power source. It seems surprising that they chose to leave IR off the menu, but as I used to make a IR to RS232 "converter" it would be trivial to add that accessory to to the mix for those who didn't have a MSC-400 or RS232 and wanted to use the RadioRA-SR. I'm learning fast, stay tuned...

This may have been spoken about before but i couldn't find much about it. I bought a star ceiling kit from Star-Ceiling Designer (http://www.starceiling-designer.com/category.sc?categoryId=6). I'm also about to buy some RGB LED strip lighting (http://www.ledlighting.com.au/digital-chasing-rgb-ribbon.html). I'm going to be using a 6 zone GRAFIK Eye controler. Is there any way i can get the GRAFIK Eye to control each of these in zones?

I think the started kit retails for about $1000, it included 4 dimmers, 1 5-button control, and the RS232/Ethernet addressable control.
Please post the model numbers. I'm particularly interested in the RS232/EtherNet unit capabilities. (The old one AV-RS232(?) was practically worthless...)

I just purchased a used 3106 and I hooked up load 1 & 2 with power going to the GE. Strange things are happening. If I dim up any load manually on the GE 1-6 then both 1&2 power up 100% regardless of which zone I hit up. Neither field will dim at all and I have checked the load select and made sure they were set for incandescent lighting. I don't want to yell at this guy yet until I make sure there is not user error on my end.

I did wire a dedicated ciruit to the panel for my GE, and I have verified I have my "hot wire" going to the hot/live and all my whites tied together and one going to my neutral and then just my blacks going to load 1 and load 2 respectively.

Any ideas or did I get a bad deal?

Thanks,

Sounds to me like the unit already had some programming done on it. There is an option to bypass dimming on each zone and if it receives any non-zero level command it comes on full.

How are you programming the unit? There is a 'Reset to Factory Default' command, but I don't know what it would be (or if it's available) from the front panel.

Please post the model numbers. I'm particularly interested in the RS232/EtherNet unit capabilities. (The old one AV-RS232(?) was practically worthless...)
Sorry, missed this post. I'll round up those part numbers and post. So far my "test bed" setup works pretty well. There are some limitations but some advantages, too.

Hey... I made the "AV-RS232" and it worked flawlessly. We mainly made it to deal with the lack of discretes on some projectors. It was an IR to RS232 converter, probably not the think you meant? :)

I was confusing the GRX-AV and the GRX-RS232 (now superceded). The -RS232 allowed a limited amount of programming for the 3000 series (not 3500). GRX-PRG was much more useful.

I just purchased a used 3106 and I hooked up load 1 & 2 with power going to the GE. Strange things are happening.
The non-dim option and the Incandescent zone setting are mutually exclusive, so prior programming is probably not the issue.

Look at problem 3 in Appendix 3 - Troubleshooting - of your Installation Guide. It looks like a bad Triac. In other words, the unit is likely bad.

Please post the model numbers. I'm particularly interested in the RS232/EtherNet unit capabilities.
Part nos
SRD-W5BRL 5 button controller
SR-NWK-E RS232/TCPIP inetrface controller
SRD-6D dimmer

The non-dim option and the Incandescent zone setting are mutually exclusive, so prior programming is probably not the issue.

Look at problem 3 in Appendix 3 - Troubleshooting - of your Installation Guide. It looks like a bad Triac. In other words, the unit is likely bad.


Thanks....I don't like to hear this, but it sounds like this is the case.

There is something of a grey market in control units. Architects usually order more for a commercial building than they need, or a change order leaves some unneeded. These get sold on eBay. In my experience, Lutron will generally honor the warranty on an older but unused unit.

I don't know about your particulars, but if the seller (or can't) doesn't make good, try contacting Lutron.

Ok, now I am fixing my mess with my bad 3106 and looking at getting a QSG model. My question is since my GE will be at the back of the room as I enter my HT, is there a way to wire an IR receiver to the front of the room and connect it to the QSG "hardwired"? I currently am using a Logitech 880 and I know I can get a Lutron switch with IR, but was hoping to save a couple bucks and I don't need another switch at the front of the HT. So I might sound stupid, but is there IR reciever that I can hook up to CAT5 or PELV wire and connect it to the back of the QSG? I see the options out there to convert IR to RF, but I really don't need more gadgets to upset my wife.

Thanks again for any help!

I thought we did a QS primer somewhere in the middle of this mess??

Should we build a NEW thread for QS series GRX??

If so, this one should be re-titled as the definitive 3100/3500 (MR/IA) GRX thread...

Also, I am selling my *never installed* 6 zone QS cheap in the classifieds... $450.

Ok, now I am fixing my mess with my bad 3106 and looking at getting a QSG model. My question is since my GE will be at the back of the room as I enter my HT, is there a way to wire an IR receiver to the front of the room and connect it to the QSG "hardwired"? I currently am using a Logitech 880 and I know I can get a Lutron switch with IR, but was hoping to save a couple bucks and I don't need another switch at the front of the HT. So I might sound stupid, but is there IR reciever that I can hook up to CAT5 or PELV wire and connect it to the back of the QSG? I see the options out there to convert IR to RF, but I really don't need more gadgets to upset my wife.

Thanks again for any help!

The new QS line has an IR port in the back of the unit. You are able to wire it up with an IR receiver and emitter, but I believe you will still need a block in between to add power. If you have and IR network already you would be able to go off that with one of the emitters.

The new QS line has an IR port in the back of the unit. You are able to wire it up with an IR receiver and emitter, but I believe you will still need a block in between to add power. If you have and IR network already you would be able to go off that with one of the emitters.
A connecting block is to add phantom power to the IR receiver, and to facilitate multiple emitter ports.

If you already have an IR repeater system (Xantach, Niles, etc.) or are using a remote base station with IR out (Universal, Harmony, RTI, etc.), just go straight out and tie directly to a 600v rated wire fed into the box.

Lutron announced a new enclosure mounted QS-Series GrafikEye at InfoComm this week.

It is like a tiny little HomeWorks system in an enclosure, and is intended for board rooms and other small commercial applications.

It is also PERFECT for custom upscale theaters and media rooms where the homeowner does not want to put lighting in the entire home at that time.
(although it can be tied into a whole-house lighting just as nearly any GRX system can)

I haven't seen pricing yet, but this is a definite winner, folks.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_rJ1m7dJ6yYc/SjpmrRp8SMI/AAAAAAAABp8/Yl9IFeUPl38/s800/QSP-PAV-8E120_SLIDE.jpg

Hey, that's pretty cool. It would have been great in my room where the GE essentially doubles as a wall station. I could have put it in the attic with the accessories and set a wall station into the old box. Wouldn't have even had to open the wall.

Lutron seems to have accelerated their R&D. Do you have a feel for whether there is an increase in demand for HT conversions in parallel with the demand for big TVs?

Te GrafikEye is still first and foremost a commercial device.... even these new iterations.

Home theater is just an excellent use of an existing product, after all a board room and a media room/HT have many similarities.

- video and/or overhead/slide projectors
- low light for presentations (or movies)
- task lighting for certain areas
- physical light control of drapes/blinds....

Oh, and the QS absolutely rules over the 3100/3500

Anyone have 35-40 feet of PELV wire that would like to sell? PM

Got a question - need some advice. I own a GE 3104, and have an IR transmitter wired to the front of the unit. However, as pointed out on the first page of this thread, a bulge will show up when you try to put the cover on.

I've gone over the options in this thread, and not sure they'll work for me because my IR transmitted is slightly larger than the ones recommended. I see two options:

1) Use a dremel on my IR transmitter, try to whittle down as much as possible on it (get it close to the size of a Xantech IR transmitter)

2) Remove the small, round IR receiver plastic cover on the GE. Then, insert my transmitter in the cover hole and the hole of the IR receiver.

Can option #2 even be done? How do I remove this small piece of plastic (pliers)? Anyone done it?

Got a question - need some advice. I own a GE 3104, and have an IR transmitter wired to the front of the unit. However, as pointed out on the first page of this thread, a bulge will show up when you try to put the cover on.

I've gone over the options in this thread, and not sure they'll work for me because my IR transmitted is slightly larger than the ones recommended. I see two options:

1) Use a dremel on my IR transmitter, try to whittle down as much as possible on it (get it close to the size of a Xantech IR transmitter)

2) Remove the small, round IR receiver plastic cover on the GE. Then, insert my transmitter in the cover hole and the hole of the IR receiver.

Can option #2 even be done? How do I remove this small piece of plastic (pliers)? Anyone done it?

I ended up using a dremel with a VERY light cylindrical sanding accessory, and ended up grinding a small hole to the left of the IR. I didn't go all the way through the plastic. I also sanded down the IR itself, made it work.

The cover now goes on almost 100% perfectly.

I just picked up a 6-zone QS and I'm doing all my wiring. The two "ports" in the back say "IR Data" & "IR Com". How do I hook the QS to the IR repeater?

Did you read the installation instruction booklet?

Did you read the installation instruction booklet?

Yes, it doesn't really get specific with anything dealing with IR. I think I may have figured it out, but I'd be interested in what everyone else did?

On a side note, does anyone know where I can get replacement covers for my QS. I can't only find covers for the older models.

I don't have specifics about the IR - I've never installed a QS.

For covers, call Lutron support. They're undoubtedly available. IIRC, they're about $150, depending on the finish you want.

Jailguy, I did an IR on my set up if I remember when i get I'll post the wiring for you.

I went to a local supplier of electronic parts and was able to get a handful of 3mm IR emitters for 75 cents each. You would need to do a little soldering, but its not difficult. These would fit in without a bulge, although I am mounting mine in the back of seat that is right in front of the GE on the wall. What I need to find now is a programming manual for my Grafik Eye, as I would like to use some of the extended scenes. I have scenes 1-5 set up for movie viewing, TV viewing, full on, full off, etc. What I would like to do is access more scenes that I can set to the same levels, but have different dim times, so that if I bring the house lights up for an intermission macro, it will go back to the movie viewing level without taking the full minute I have set on Scene 4.

Warren G,

If you are using a Harmony remote they have the 16 scenes available as part of the database. They don't call them scenes, I think they call them light 1 light 2 or something like that. Anyways you can select i.e. scene 8 and then manually adjust the GE (I know you may know this already, for the benefit of others) to what setting you want and it will remember that as scene 8.

Even if you don't have a Harmony you can get one pretty cheaply to be able to teach your remote the commands after you download them from the database.

Jailguy, did you purchase your IR repeater from Lutron? as that's what I did so I may not help. My GRX-CIR wired up with 4 wires like any of their wallstations.

Has anyone hooked up an occupancy sensor to their QS?

I was wondering if you had to buy the lutron sensor or if other sensors would work?

Cheers,
Simon

Warren_G, there is a document for the extended command set on the Lutron site. I can't point to it right now, but if you can't find it call Lutron support and they can point you to it.

I never even thought of just using the 16 settings available on the harmony and then setting the levels on the GE directly. Its so simple, its brilliant. Thanks for the tip.

Warren,

How did you make out. Get it resolved?

Has anyone hooked up an occupancy sensor to their QS?

I was wondering if you had to buy the lutron sensor or if other sensors would work?

Cheers,
Simon

Anyone hooked up a sensor to their GE?

Simon

I got it resolved and it works like a charm. I embedded one of the 3mm IR emitters in the back of one of my theater seats, and it controls the GE exactly as I had hoped.
You can see the IR eye as the small dot in the middle of the seat here:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2529/3880078186_70a0b7fdc4.jpg

Cool solution!

I have a question on dimming. I am looking at the 3104 and I have a zone that is only going to be two recessed lights. I am planning on using MR16 capable recessed lights. If I use two 20w MR16 lights it will hit the grafik eye’s 40W minimum per circuit. But in that case, where the dim control still work well since its so close to the minimum? I didn’t know if the grafik eye needed a minimum because it can’t reduce its output much more than the 40W. Thoughts? Experiences?

I have a question on dimming. I am looking at the 3104 and I have a zone that is only going to be two recessed lights. I am planning on using MR16 capable recessed lights. If I use two 20w MR16 lights it will hit the grafik eye’s 40W minimum per circuit. But in that case, where the dim control still work well since its so close to the minimum? I didn’t know if the grafik eye needed a minimum because it can’t reduce its output much more than the 40W. Thoughts? Experiences?

Since no one has responded to your question, I thought I would do so even though I don't have an answer for you.

What I would do in your situation is call Lutron US product support directly at 1-800-523-9466 and get the answer from the horse's mouth.

I'm pretty sure the zone minimum is 25W rather than 40W.

In either case, the unit will have no problem with your application.

Frank1940, DMF,

Thanks for the reply. After I posted I did call up the support line, and they said that if you fall below the minimum, the problem is that the lights might flicker and that the zone lights may glow even when fully off.

I do have a second question after reading this thread. I have want to use an RF remote and as I understand I can either run an emitter to the front of the Grafik Eye or connect GRX-IRI.

If I run the emitter to the front, I can't use CAT5 inside the box because its a fire risk (unless possibly if I wrap in electrical tape) so are those who are running the emitter to the front running it outside the gang box? Or is it possible to use a MUX wire through the box as an extension for the emitter on the front of the Grafik Eye. Does anyone know of pictures of how exactly they placed and extension wire through the wall and onto the front of the Grafik Eye?

All help appreciated.

Triac-based dimmers can pump out a lot of EMI (electro-magnetic interference); a metal box blocks EMI.


This may not be true, unless you're running metal conduit all the way to the metal box from the breaker box, where the metal conduit and box would therefore be grounded. If you're running romex to the metal box, the box isn't grounded and therefore I would assume have less ability to block EMI.

Also, what about the Grafik Eye itself? What shielding does it have? You could have the box nicely shielded, but then the front of the Grafik Eye is spewing EMI all over the place.

Anyone have trouble with the Grafik Eye affecting their system? I'd like to know, because I'm starting to run wires now and can run THHN and metal conduit to the Grafik Eye, if that's necessary. I am running THHN and metal conduit to my system's electrical outlets, and I'm going to use an isolated ground system there. So, that should help to protect me somewhat, but if I'm going to run conduit, I might be able to run another set of conduit if necessary (but I'd rather run romex).

Finally, how did you sound proof this box? (Or did you?)

Here are some of the other threads that had various info regarding the Grafik Eye:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5859064#post5859064

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=551838

The thread where members Bpape and Toxarch details the installation of an IR emitter, including a nice photo by Toxarch.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=554441&highlight=grafik+eye


I noticed that the links referenced above are now dead. Does anyone have the pictures referenced above about the installation of an IR emitter? I would like to see the work Bpape and Toxarch have done before

Does anyone know what's the deal with the new Grafik Eye QS Wireless? What protocol does the wireless use? Will it work with devices like the iTouch? Is there a price premium such that it would be easier to work with a standard QS with another wireless interface?

I noticed that the links referenced above are now dead. Does anyone have the pictures referenced above about the installation of an IR emitter? I would like to see the work Bpape and Toxarch have done before

The threads are in archive. When you get the screen that it can't find the thread, click on the link to the 01/05-06/06 archives.

Any comments on this product by Progress Lighting.

http://www.lightingdirect.com/progress-lighting-p8694-traditional-classic-three-zone-dimmer-control/p1058208?source=shtca_1058208

Is it a rebranded Lutron product? Price is really cheap.

Any ideas what series it is based on the picture/description

Thanks in advance.

Any comments on this product by Progress Lighting.

http://www.lightingdirect.com/progress-lighting-p8694-traditional-classic-three-zone-dimmer-control/p1058208?source=shtca_1058208

Is it a rebranded Lutron product? Price is really cheap.

Any ideas what series it is based on the picture/description

Thanks in advance.Check this page here:

http://www.lightingdirect.com/index.cfm?page=search:browse&categoryid=15004&p=5

It's indeed a Lutron product.