Hello all...
There have been many discussions of te ubiquitous Lutron Grafik Eye here in the Theater Design & Construction area before and after the re-design of the categories. There are bits and pieces of good info on many of those threads along with a serious amount of redundancy in the questions.

Since there are so many other threads each with partial information about the various GRX models, I decided to consolidate all of the info to one thread.

To anyone that does not know what a Grafik Eye (GRX) is, here is a pic:
http://www.dimmers.net/images/grafikeye/GRX-4102.jpg

This is a four zone unit with a White "T" cover. That means that the top portion is translucent, which means you can see the status LEDs of the various zones.

The "A" cover would have the top portion "opaque" and the same color as the bottom of the cover.

DEFINITIONS AND TERMS:
Zones:
In this context, a "zone" refers to a light fixture, or group of light fixtures on the same electrical circuit. An example would be a group of sconces in a theater room or a group of louver lights in risers and walkways of a theater room.

Many times, can lights and other ceiling lights are grouped into multiple zones.

As an example, you may have the lights over the seating area be one zone, and the lights highlighting the screen/proscenuim area as a second zone, and a dedicated "wall wash" fixture over the rack as a third zone.

Scenes:
In this context, a "scene" refers to a snapshot of multiple zones each at different instensities. Once a particular scene is programmed, a single press will return all of the selected zones to the intensities programmed for that scene.

Common scenes in a home theater application might include:
'Clean Up' - all zones at 100% intensity for maximum visibility
'Access' - sconces on medium and aisle lights on high for people entering and leaving
'Watch Movie' - screen cans off, sconces at very, very low or totally off, and aisle lights just at a very low level.
'Intermission' - Aisle lights and sconces at similar levels to 'Access', plus the rack or control room lights on to allow loading DVDs or tapes, flipping Laserdiscs, etc.

Lamps:
When consumers first get into lighting, they may notice that all lighting designers call all bulbs "lamps"... It would be more accurate to say that consumers call all lamps "bulbs".

You may see or hear terms like MR-15, PAR-20 flood, and T-8 blue spectrum... be mindful or these terms, because they describe different lamps for different applications. I am shocked to see how many homeowners, and even professional electricians, choose the incorrect bulbs, especially the lamps/bulbs in can lights.

When you choose by wattage and shape alone, you may well be choosing an yellowish low color temperature outdoor flood lamps for your can lights in your theater.

Color temp in lighting means the same thing as it does on video... In the world of lighting, higher is better than lower. Halogens are usually higher in spectrum, so they have a bluer "whiter" light.

The new GE Reveal bulbs are pretty nice and are a significant improvement over traditional incandescents. Considering the price of these bulbs/lamps, and the inefficient nature of incandescent bulbs to begin with, IMO it would be a wise choice to select halogen fixtures whenever possible.

Dennis Erskine seems to be fond of the Ardee recessed fixtures, but given my proximity to the HQ of Juno lighting, we see their fixtures most often.

If you are REALLY serious, consult a lighting designer to specify your fixtures, trims, lamp types, and even the lighting intensity of each zone in for a few scenes to create the maximum effect.

And BTW...
Yes, a table lamp or floor lamp is also called a lamp by everyone in case anyone is curious...

Loads:
This document rom Lutron is a good example of the types of loads that you may face.
http://www.lutron.com/technical_info/pdf/LutronDimmingBasics.pdf

In this context, "loads" refers to the type and wattage of the fixtures/lamps on a zone.

To determine the load for a zone, total up the wattage of the fixtures on each planned zone to get this number.
(ie. Four Juno recessed light fixtures with 60 watt incandescent bulbs = 240 watts on zone 1...)

GRX dimmers can dim up to 800 watts on any single zone, but the total capacity limits the GRX (all series) to the following:
2 zone - 1200 watts total
3 zone - 1500 watts total
4 zone - 2000 watts total
6 zone - 2000 watts total

If your intended fixtures exceed the zone or unit capacity, use a Power Booster on the largest load(s).

The most common loads are:
Incandescent.
This includes mostof what we would use in theaters. Edison type "bulb" shaped bulbs/lamps, reflectorized spot and flood lamps, chandelier bulbs, halogen lamps, and some rope lighting.

MLV (magnetic low voltage lighting)
Can lights and track lights with magnetic transformers that convert line voltage to low voltage. Most LV rope lights are MLV.
GRX units can dim MLV loads.

ELV (electronic low voltage lighting)
Can lights and track lights with electronic transformers that convert line voltage to low voltage. NOTE: GRX units CANNOT directly dim ELV loads, and GRX-ELVI interface is required and it will require it's own 2 gang box.

It is not recommended to mix different loads on the same zone. If you desire different types of fixtures to track together (ex. sconces and rope lighting), choose a larger GRX unit and program the zones to track together.

CHOOSING A GRAFIK EYE (GRX):
The three basic series of GRX for Home Theater use are:

GRX-2400 series
http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/grx2000.asp?s=&t=
GRX-2402 (2 zone, 2 gang box) MSRP $ 420
GRX-2403 (3 zone, 3 gang box) MSRP $ 500
GRX-2404 (4 zone, 4 gang box) MSRP $ 580

Features:
This is the most basic series in the GRX family. 4 scenes only.
Basic IR control (incl. scenes 1-4, all off)
Fixed 3 second fade between scenes and a 10 second fade to off.
This unit is not compatible with Accessory Controls, but you can still accomadate multiple entry points with a single button Entrance Control (NT-GRX-1S) that toggles between from scene to off, and from off to back to scene 1.

GRX-3100 (aka MR series)
http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/grx3100.asp?s=&t=
GRX-3102 (2 zone, 2 gang box) MSRP $ 690
GRX-3103 (3 zone, 3 gang box) MSRP $ 770
GRX-3104 (4 zone, 4 gang box) MSRP $ 850
GRX-3106 (6 zone, 4 gang box) MSRP $ 1,010

Features:
Advanced IR control (incl. scenes 1-16, raise, lower, all off)
Variable fade time on all scenes and off.
Fade time programmable from 1-59 seconds or from 2-60 minutes.
The 3100 and 3500 series step up to 16 scene control, with 1-4 on the front cover of the GRX, and 5-16 being available via IR, or through MUX from the Accessory Controls or interfaces (except RS-232)

GRX-3500 (aka IA series)
http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/3545.asp?s=&t
GRX-3502 (2 zone, 2 gang box) MSRP $ coming soon
GRX-3503 (3 zone, 3 gang box) MSRP $ coming soon
GRX-3504 (4 zone, 4 gang box) MSRP $ coming soon
GRX-3506 (6 zone, 4 gang box) MSRP $ coming soon

Features:
The 3500 series is programmable with 1% resolution in dimming steps, vs. @6-7% steps on the 2400 and 3100 series.
The same advanced IR control as the 3100 series, except the raise and lower have more steps in the resolution.
The 3500 series adds the capability of using the RS-232 interface which adds real time feedback to a control system as well as direct communication dimming w/out establishing presets. (ie: directly dimming one load only to modify an existing scene)

Accessory Controls:
As for Accessory Controls, the NTGRX models have been the only choice for years,
but recently Lutron introduced the SeeTouch series and everyone LOVES the SeeTouch keypads.
http://www.lutron.com/seetouch/seetouchA.pdf
With the SeeTouch, you can have your scene names engraved into the 4 scene buttons and have them appear backlit... this is a VERY attractive option and a nice effect when entering a dark room.

Remotes:
There are remotes available directly from Lutron for the GRX series, but most HT designers use the discrete codes which are pre-programmed into the database nearly every programmable remote and readily available from places like www.remotecentral.com.

Here is the link to the IR files for several formats for diferent remotes as well as an excel spreadsheet that has the breakdown of each code.
http://www.lutron.com/technical_info/IRProtocol/default.asp

ALL GRX dimmers share the following...
Any zone can be programmed to switch instead of dim, so you can use the GRX to switch loads that cannot easily be dimmed, such as flourescent and neon.
You can also use a zone in switch mode as a programmabe relay to trigger fans, window shades, screens, lifts,etc., although there are better ways to achieve this IMO.

Other fixtures including ELV, flourescent, and higher wattage loads can be accomodated with the proper interface, power modules and/or dimming ballast.

Scenes 1-4 are always controlled on the face of the GRX and these scenes cannot be locked. As users change light levels under the top cover of the GRX, the l;ast scene selected is also changed. The GRX will return to the last state when that scene is recalled. If you have a 3100 or 3500, program your accessory controls, remotes, and touchcreens using scenes 5-16. These can only be modified in programming mode, and the programmed scenes will be consistently recalled regardless of the last status of the controls under the cover.

Here are some of the other threads that had various info regarding the Grafik Eye:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5859064#post5859064

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=551838

The thread where members Bpape and Toxarch details the installation of an IR emitter, including a nice photo by Toxarch.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=554441&highlight=grafik+eye

Some additions.

Lutron's Spacer system can perform most of the same basic functions as Grafik Eye, but there is little cost advantage and installations of even moderate complexity can become unwieldy. It is rumored that Lutron will soon replace or retire the Spacer system.

Other Grafik Eye series (4000, 5000, 6000, 7000) are designed for commercial or large-scale installations and should be considered for HT only by a professional.

I think the MSRP on the 3506 is $1150.

To add PC and RS-232 interfaces to the 3500 series one needs the GRX-PRG for about $800. It combines the RS-232 interface with a real-time clock so that the 3500 control unit can be programmed by a PC (Lutron has lighting control programs) and scheduled like a timer. One GRX-PRG can be used with up to 8 control units.

Grafik Eye can be ordered in many standard colors. Special finishes such as bright brass or satin chrome can be had for an extra charge and a wait of 4-8 weeks. Faceplates are replacable, but cost $80-150.

INSTALLATION OF YOUR GRX:

Here (http://www.lutron.com/instructions/032118bENG.pdf) is the official Installation Guide from Lutron:

IF YOU ARE HAVING AN ELECTRICIAN INSTALL THE GRAFIK EYE, MAKE SURE HE HAS A COPY OF THIS GUIDE BEFORE HE INSTALLS THE BOXES AND PULLS THE WIRING TO THE FIXTURES.

It's a good thing to provide a copy to your builder/GC as well.

Physical Mounting of the GRX
The GRX models are a notoriously difficult product to install.
It seems like there are as many opinions regarding the best method as there are AVS members, but here goes...

As outlined below in the "High Voltage Wiring" section of this post, you need to run all hots, neutrals, and grounds from each circuit to the GRX.
This equals a LOT of connections in the box.

The GRX is a deep device to begin with, so you can see the dificulties unless special measures are taken.

Lutron recommends a 3.5" deep steel masonry box, and you can order a box directly from Lutron.
(new construction P/N # 241-400 or old work P/N # 241-691)

and here is a photo and a link (http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/RACO_datasheet.asp?PN=692&FAM=RacoBoxes) & a PDF sheet (http://www.hubbellonline.com/wiring...ell/pdf/a53.pdf) to the 4 gang version of the RACO box that is the most commonly available model.
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/images/Raco/Boxes/0698.jpg

If you are using a 2 zone or 3 zone GRX, you can get a 2 or 3 gang version of this box.

High Voltage Wiring of the GRX
Since there are so many regional adaptations to the NEC, I want to say that the high voltage section is not "definitive" and that consulting or hiring a local electrician is always the best bet.

The GRX needs all of the wiring (hot, neutral, and ground) for each of the independant lighting circuits to be pulled into one box.
This is a little bit unorthodox for some electricians, so let them know ahead of time what you plan to do, and print the Installation Guide for them if there are any questions.

Getting all of these cables into a box is tough, and AudibleSolutions and others (including me) recommends using stranded wire to make this easier to manage.
You can use stranded wire (THHN, THWN) in EMT conduit or flexible conduit (aka Greenfield) or buy armored or MC cable which is like flexible conduit with wire already inside. Be sure to look for stranded, and use the proper fittings for your boxes.

If you do not have experience terminating with wire-nuts on stranded wire, practice on a few spare lengths and/or wire the fixtures first. Also, a wrap or two of a good electrical tape like 3M Super 33+ over a wire-nut termination never did any harm and is considered a good practice by a lot of electricians.

In some areas you cannot use wire-nuts for the grounds, and they require compression sleeves instead. Again, check with an electrician in your area.

Low Voltage Wiring of the GRX
Here (http://www.lutron.com/onespec/cutsheets/appnotes/grx/lvwiring.pdf) is a link to the Application Note from Lutron regarding the LV wiring of the PELV MUX Link used to interconect multiple GRXs in applications greater than 6 zones, and more commonly to connect Accessory Controls, Entrance Controls, Control Interfaces, and Lutron's dedicated IR receiver to the GRX.

In addition to the Installation Guide, I would also advise making copies of this sheet for the electrician and the builder/GC.
Also, local inspectors not familiar with GRX installations (although harder to find these days) always like to see the manufacturer's reference to the code specifications in regard to the LV in the high voltage box.

Be sure to use a cable rated at 600V for this application.
Lutron P/N # GRX-CBL-346S
Liberty P/N # Lutron-GRN (available by the foot from Dennis Erskine or myself)
Belden P/N # 9740 or 9156

You should be able to find the Lutron or Belden P/N as special orders by the spool from local electrical suppliers, or your local A/V dealer can order you some of the Liberty wire as he may already have an account.

Multiple Entrances & 3-Way / 4-Way Circuits
3-way wiring, 4-way wiring, etc. is not done in the traditional method.
If you have multiple entrances or are using a GRX in an application where you are controlling hallway or stairway lights where code mandates that controls are required in multiple locations, you will need to run the PELV Mux line outlined above to those additional areas and install NT or SG series Accessory Controls, or use high voltage cabling to an Entrance Controls at the other entry points.

The NT-GRX-1S Entrance Control is the ONLY external controller that uses line cabling in place of PELV Mux cable. It connects to the SSA and HOT leads instead of the PELV connector. I would not specify this control unless you have a 2400 series GRX.

NOTE: In many areas, audio/video keypads and control system touchscreen keypads do not qualify as controls toward the code and you will need a dedicated hard button control like the Lutron NT or SG Accessory Controls or the NT-GRX-1S Entrance Control.

Remember that the GRX-2400 series does not have a PELV connection and is not compatible with NT or SG series Accessory Controls, and you can ONLY use the NT-GRX-1S Entrance Control for this application. The NT-GRX-1S goes to the SSA and HOT terminals instead.

Here (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/ntgrx-1s.pdf) is the Spec Sheet on the NT-GRX-1S Entrance Control:


The 2 box Method
Many people here at AVS are fans of pulling the line feed and all of loads through a junction box or another wall box and then only a single neutral and ground into the same box as the GRX. Then you would connect all of the neutrals and grounds from the all of the light fixture circuits (loads) in the first box tht the wire passes through.

The obvious issues here are aesthetic, a junction box in the joist space at the top or bottom of that wall cavity is one thing, but IMO a second wall box with a blank plate will definitely look odd.

Another consideration might be the terminations themselves, placing this many of these terminations in a second junction box may raise a flag with some inspectors in some areas.

It is my opinion that the point is moot. A second box is not necessary in most circumstances.

Using a 3.5" deep masonry box affords you plenty of real estate for all of the connections if you are smart about the length of the terminations and careful about folding them neatly into the box. Once again, a few twists of the cables in addition to a couple wraps of good tape can be your friend.

Some additions. Snatch what you want and I'll delete the post.

Keep it up here... this isn't "my" thread, and you have good info here.


Grafik Eye is an integrated lighting control system consisting of one or more control units (pictured) and any number of accessories. A control unit contains a number of dimmers each of which control one or more luminaires (lights), allowing the user to combine dimmer settings into preset lighting "scenes". Common scenes might be 'Clean Up' - everything on high, 'Access' - sconces on medium and aisle lights on high for people entering and leaving, or 'Watch Movie' - some lights off and others low.

This is good basic description of scenes... I like the examples.
I am writing a thorough definition of zones and scenes and it is forthcoming.

I probably should have included that in the first post...

EDIT:
Check the first post...


Lutron's Spacer system can perform most of the same basic functions as Grafik Eye, but there is little cost advantage and installations of even moderate complexity can become unwieldy. It is rumored that Lutron will soon replace or retire the Spacer system.

Personally, I consider the Spacer System to be a "GRX Lite", and the real life saver application of this product is in existing rooms/spaces where the wiring for the various fixtures is located in different boxes all over the room and re-wiring would be expensive.

Your point of the diminishing cost advantage of the SPS vs GRX mirrors my feelings exactly.

I think that too many people overuse the SPS line simply because it is so similar to traditional dimmers, and once more people understand the power and application of the GRX series, it will be an even more popular choice with AVSers.


Other Grafik Eye series (4000, 5000, 6000, 7000) are designed for commercial or large-scale installations and should be considered for HT only by a professional.

Yes, they are really only applicable to commercial spaces because they are the models that can control the remote dimming panels in addition to the zones that they control.

In residential use, even tying 2 GRX units together is impractical with the other options available today.

If you have more than 6 zones in a single space, or wish to control additional lighting throughout the home, Home Works or even Radio Ra can provide house wide control in a much more straightforward, powerful, and cost effective system and would certainly be a more appropriate system to build upon.


I think the MSRP on the 3506 is $1150.

I will double check these numbers and get them up early next week in addition to the retail pricimng of replacement covers in regular finishes as well as the metal finishes and Satin Colors options.


To add PC and RS-232 interfaces to the 3500 series one needs the GRX-PRG for about $800. It combines the RS-232 interface with a real-time clock so that the 3500 control unit can be programmed by a PC (Lutron has lighting control programs) and scheduled like a timer. One GRX-PRG can address up to 8 control units.

Grafik Eye can be ordered in many standard colors. Special finishes such as bright brass or satin chrome can be had for an extra charge and a wait of 4-8 weeks.

Installation topic should go in a separate post?

I was typing it up as you posted this...

Scenes 1-4 are always controlled on the face of the GRX and these scenes cannot be locked.
Actually, Scenes 1-4 can be locked. In the scene set up (programming mode) on the 3000 series, the default of Sd can be changed to Sn (save never). Behind the faceplate you can change the current scene but as soon as you select that scene from a remote or the buttons on the face of the GE, the scene will return to it's originally programmed values.


Good information in the thread!

Actually, Scenes 1-4 can be locked. In the scene set up (programming mode) on the 3000 series, the default of Sd can be changed to Sn (save never). Behind the faceplate you can change the current scene but as soon as you select that scene from a remote or the buttons on the face of the GE, the scene will return to it's originally programmed values.
Wow, this is total news to me... I was taught by Lutron in several trainings over the years to use scenes 5-16 on all programming SPECIFICALLY to avoid this issue.

You learn something new everyday!!

Good information in the thread!

Thanks!

Nice thread. You should add something about the wall stations. The lutron site is confusing. I have 2 GEs and 2 wall stations all wire in series (for the communication lines). You can choose which box listens to which wall station (or both) plus have each GE listen to the other.

Nice thread. You should add something about the wall stations. The lutron site is confusing. I have 2 GEs and 2 wall stations all wire in series (for the communication lines). You can choose which box listens to which wall station (or both) plus have each GE listen to the other.
What models of GRX and Accessory Controls do you have??

I linked the low voltage Application Note in my "Installation" post above...
It is pretty detailed regarding the connection of the PELV/Mux cabling between multiple devices.

As for the programming...
I know it can be done, but I'll be honest here... I have NEVER linked multiple GRX units together, so I don't have a clue how to begin to decribe the capabilties of how Accessory Controls and Interfaces may be used to communicate to multiple GRX units to extend the zone control beyond the six zones of a single unit.

As I said elsewhere, we have gone from the 6 zone GRX pretty much right to Radio Ra or HomeWorks Interactive...
(actually, Radio Ra has been pretty much replaced across the board with the HWI HomeServe line)

In fact, I try to justify a 4 series HWI processor with the HWI panel or wallbox dimming modules on theater jobs if budget isn't really an issue...

This method is significantly cleaner because ALL of the dimming/switching is done at the panel or in a surface mounted box in the has a LOT more flexibility in terms of programming (it's PC based!!), status and control (because we can use existing HWI modules in AMX) and it's a significantly more powerful base to build on in the future.

As I said above, this isn't MY thread, I just started it to keep from reposting the same info time after time...
Feel free to chime in with the issues you faced in that particular application.

Be sure to use a cable rated at 600V for this application.
Lutron P/N # GRX-CBL-346S
Liberty P/N # Lutron-GRN
Belden P/N # 9470 or 9156
The "9470" number is wrong. It should be "9740". 9740 is single-pair and 9156 is two-pair. Two-pair is preferred since the pairs are color coded.

Both Belden specs are 300V, but maybe I'm not reading the specs correctly?

The "9470" number is wrong. It should be "9740". 9740 is single-pair and 9156 is two-pair. Two-pair is preferred since the pairs are color coded.

Both Belden specs are 300V, but maybe I'm not reading the specs correctly?
The part number has been corrected...

As for the 300V rating, I don't know.
These numbers (even the WRONG number which we have identified and corrected) came straight from Lutron's App Notes...

Personally, I like the Liberty Wire.
They are trade only, but I could order in a spool and count it off and sell it as needed for DIY guys building theaters.

Would anyone be interested in buying this by the foot to avoid buying an entire spool?? PayPal payments would probably be super easy to do...


Also, I would put the "Low Voltage" section of the Installation post above the "Multiple Entrances" section so there's no forward reference (mux line) in the latter.
Done... I agree that was a weird phrase in hindsight, and I was trying to make the posts flow as much as possible...

Good tip.

...ah, I have it in stock.

I've done some research on the 600V sheath. ... what I get for not keeping up. The app notes on the Lutron site are correct (some local authorities still require 600V sheath). Largely the difficulty is the NEC doesn't clearly define "low voltage".

Under class 1, we have power limited and remote control/signalling circuits. Class 1 remote control and signalling circuits are limited to 600V and hence Class 1 requires a 600V sheath. Much of the confusion in the field with inspecting authorities is the use appears to be signalling and remote control. Question is if you want to have that argument with an inspector.

Class 2 are defined under two different tables...one for direct current and one for alternating current. Regardless, if the equipment and the transformer (if used) is marked "Class 2", then you can wire according to Class 2 requirements. (NOTE: The Crestron ST-LT interface is not labeled "Class 2").

There are additional requirements for Class 1, 2, and 3 conductors when placed in a tray, raceway, and enclosures with line voltage conductors.

INSTALLATION ADDENDUM::
Thanks to a good tip from AVS member AudibleSolutions, we have yet another method for getting all of those wires and the GRX into a single box.

The box in question is referred to as a "Gang box" in the Raco and T&B Steel City catalogs, although Alan says the supply houses (in NYC at least) will also know it as a rough-in box.

This particular use of the term "gang box" refers to a taller box with tabs on the sides of the opening, more like a junction box, to be used to attach a face or cover.

This is as opposed to the use of the term "gang" meaning the number of devices (receptacles, swtiches, etc.) that can be mounted directly into the holes along the top and bottom of the box, like a 4 gang switch box or a 4 gang masonry box...

Anyway, I have noticed that even though the depth is only 2.5", this type of box is 4.5" tall vs. the 3.75" height of the masonry box, this is a nice find!!
The 13/16" extension puts us within 1/4" of the masonry box in terms of depth directly behind the GRX, but gives us a LOT more room to place these terminations around it!!

The adapters for multi-gang openings will span the additional width of the "gang" boxes (or they can be used on the next size down "gang" box, but that doesn't help us) Ex. a 4 "gang" plate for a GRX fits on the 4 gang OR 3 gang "gang" box, but the 3 gang "gang" box wouldn't be advised for a GRX installation....

Here (http://www.tnb.com/contractor/docs/sc_indoorboxes.pdf) is the link to the T&B/Steel City catalog, unfortunately it is the entire 40 page catalog....

The Thomas & Betts/Steel City P/N# H4BD-3/4-1 is on page A34 of the above link, and you adapt it with a 13/16" extension ring, P/N# 4-GC on page A35 of the above link. This device is a 4 gang opening that is extended 13/16" inch from the coverplate that covers the entire face of the H4BD-3/4-1.

Since the "gang" boxes are actually taller than even the masonry boxes, plus there is additional width on either side of the 4 gang opening (man, this nomenclature is just batty!!) then you have significantly more room even though the box is not as deep.

AVS member DMF has located equivelants in RACO part numbers and posted them in one of the straggling GRX threads, and I am attaching links and thumbnail photos:

The Box (http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/RACO_datasheet.asp?PN=943&FAM=RacoBoxes)
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/images/Raco/Boxes/0943.jpg

The Adapter (http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/RACO_datasheet.asp?PN=823&FAM=RacoBoxes)
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/images/Raco/Boxes/0823.jpg

Thanks to Alan (AudibleSolutions) for this tip and to DMF for the assistance on detailing this method of installation.

--Rick.

I've done some research on the 600V sheath. ... what I get for not keeping up. The app notes on the Lutron site are correct (some local authorities still require 600V sheath). Largely the difficulty is the NEC doesn't clearly define "low voltage".

Under class 1, we have power limited and remote control/signalling circuits. Class 1 remote control and signalling circuits are limited to 600V and hence Class 1 requires a 600V sheath. Much of the confusion in the field with inspecting authorities is the use appears to be signalling and remote control. Question is if you want to have that argument with an inspector.

Class 2 are defined under two different tables...one for direct current and one for alternating current. Regardless, if the equipment and the transformer (if used) is marked "Class 2", then you can wire according to Class 2 requirements. (NOTE: The Crestron ST-LT interface is not labeled "Class 2").
Liberty's LUT-GRN meets/exceeds of these specs, right??
(excepting plenum or riser, but that's another story)

...ah, I have it in stock.

There you go... This is the most important part of this techno-babble discussion for the average AVSer.
Dennis sells correct Lutron cable from Liberty Wire loose so I don't have to!!

Support the AVSers like Dennis that support us.

EDIT:
I am assuming that Dennis means Liberty LUT-GRN, as this is the GRX MUX cable...
Is that correct Dennis??

Monday I will be hitting at least one supply house...
I will grab a standard plastic box, a masonry box, and the contraption listed above and try to take photos of each method side by side for scale.

I have a wall in the old basement that is unfinished on one side, so I could even dry fit each of them side by side by side in consecutive stud bays for some in cavity shots.
That may require a lot of basement cleaning on my part, so we'll just have to see about that one...

I do not have a 4 or 6 zone GRX here... so unfortunately I cannot test the ease of stuffing it into each of the 3 options for comparison!!

do not have a 4 or 6 zone GRX
...ah, in stock as well.. :)

Liberty's LUT-GRN meets/exceeds of these specs, right
Yup...600V sheath.

Note: The Lutron Dimmer and Switch cable is 600V, the Lutron Keypad cable is not which is why you'll sometime see Lutron White being used for HWI keypads because most local authorities will not allow anything less than 600V into a panel with RPMs in the same panel.

...ah, in stock as well.. :)

Which is why you are the man...
We have a metric ton of HWI that just came in for a job that is in process... but no GRX.


(re: Liberty Lutron-GRN) Yup...600V sheath.

I really like Liberty's Lutron wire... we just pulled a couple miles of Lutron-YEL.


Note: The Lutron Dimmer and Switch cable is 600V, the Lutron Keypad cable is not which is why you'll sometime see Lutron White being used for HWI keypads because most local authorities will not allow anything less than 600V into a panel with RPMs in the same panel.

That's insane... some of our back woods inspectors out on our rural jobs didn't have ANY idea how to react to HWI the first time they saw it, but now they are very cool about it.

Just in case, I have gotten into the habit of keeping a stack of App Notes in a binder that I keep in a D4 drawer in the bottom of one of the distributed audio racks which usually happen to be in the mechanical room near the HWI panels.

Looks like we made sticky!!
Nice.

Interfaces:

There are several interfaces which are available for the Grafik Eye:

PB - Power Booster. The power booster allows a zone to handle 2000 watts. With a six zone Grafik Eye and six PB's, you could run 12,000 watts of lighting from a single GE. Don't know why you'd want to; but you can. EDIT: You are limited to two PB per zone, for a total of 24000 watts.

ELVI - Electronic Low Voltage Interface - This will allow the use of fixtures using Electronic Low Voltage (ELV) transformers. The ELV's, however, must be rated for dimming applications.

FDBI - Fluorescent Dimming Ballast Interface - Lutron offers a wide variety of dimming ballasts for florescent and compact florescent lamps. For example, if you wanted to put high CSI, 6500K fluorescent strip fixtures in your coves or soffits, you could dim these lamps with a Grafik Eye.

Please review the Lutron Application and Installation notes for each of these interfaces before using or purchasing.

Update: Member COS has posted some nifty pics of him replacing his everyday Carlon plastic switch box with a full-size Grafik Eye. There's nothing like seeing it done right before you try it yourself...

DMF sez, "Check it out". :cool:

Now back to my original post (yeah, you'll need to read it too):
-----------------------------------------
Here's a condensed version of items gleaned from the Tips and Tricks thread, which rapidly turned into an Installation thread:

Don't try to make sense of the Grafik Eye line (and all the options and accessories) just by looking at the Lutron web site. The site is confusing and doesn't present the full line well (e.g. you'd never know that there is a SeeTouch series of wallstations just by looking at the site). Get your hands on a Lutron catalog and browse it. Lutron does a very good job of showing what is possible. You may need to go to a Lutron dealer to see one.


Buy more zones than you think you'll need. You will find that you need them and the extra cost of more zones in the first controller is a lot less than that of adding a second controller.


Use metal boxes for GE installation, not plastic. There are three reasons: Grafik Eye runs hot; metal dissipates heat better. Triac-based dimmers can pump out a lot of EMI (electro-magnetic interference); a metal box blocks EMI. Non-metallic box cable clamps are internal and most are unused; metallic boxes have no internal clamps to waste volume (especially important in a one-box installation).


The recommended box for the 4- and 6-circuit Grafik Eyes is the Raco 698, a four-gang, 3.5" deep masonry box. Most any electrical supply store will have one in stock. Expect to pay between $10 and $20. If you're using NM (Romex) cable be sure to use cable clamps where they enter the box. Multiple cables can enter through the same knockout/clamp.


Lutron used to, but no longer sells a GE that can be supplied by two different circuits. If the wiring load on the GE exceeds the 1800W (approx) limit of a 15A supply, then a 20A supply must be used. If the load exceeds a single 20A supply, then external power boosters (NGRX-PB) can be used to offload zones. (The power booster is rated at 2000W, so 12,000W can be dimmed by a single 3x06!) Each power booster may have its own supply.


Here (http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/homewiringusa/2002/definitions/boxfill/index.htm) is how to calculate box fill (box size needed to contain X number of wires and devices). [Edit: Fill is an issue for a second box and may be an issue for the GE box. See later posts in this thread, especially about the box volume occupied by the Grafik Eye itself.]


It is possible but difficult to wire the Grafik Eye with the 14 or 12 AWG solid wire (e.g. Romex). With 7-9 of them bolted to the unit it is darn difficult to seat. (Never force it!) Using 14 or 12 AWG stranded THHN pigtails from the solid wires makes it much easier to seat but uses extra volume.


If you run THHN outside a box e.g. to a second box, it must be run inside conduit. If the box is metal, the conduit must also be metal.


The low voltage jacketed PELV cable does not need to run in conduit, but if you do run it in conduit, it must not run in the same conduit as the power wires.


Conduit fill: 1/2" EMT (thinwall metal conduit) can carry a maximum of nine (9) 12 AWG THHN.
3/4" EMT can carry a maximum of sixteen (16) 12 AWG THHN.
In general it is recommended to use about half the maximum.
Romex is counted differently than THHN in conduit, and at any rate need not inhabit conduit.
Calculation (http://bwccat.belden.com/ecat/images/ConCap.htm) and chart (http://www.westernextralite.com/resource/tables/fill.htm).



According to code, you must to carry the minimum wire gauge of the supply leg through to each secondary leg (i.e. each zone). Thus if you have a 20A breaker on the GE supply (minimum 12 AWG), then *each* zone controlled by the GE must use 12 AWG, even if there's only a single 50W lamp in the zone.
(This is a safety rule. An 18A short or draw would exceed the capacity of 14 AWG without causing the breaker to trip. Bad bad bad.)


Shoddy wiring can cost treasure and lives. If you (non-professional) are not capable of doing the work with the same care and integrity as a professional, or are unwilling to investigate the best methods and practices that professionals use, then you should not be doing the work.

Great post Dennis!!

The interfaces are an important part of what makes the Lutron line the best choice. They open up a lot of options and solve a lot of problems.

Interfaces:

There are several interfaces which are available for the Grafik Eye:

PB - Power Booster. The power booster allows a zone to handle 2000 watts. With a six zone Grafik Eye and six PB's, you could run 12,000 watts of lighting from a single GE. Don't know why you'd want to; but you can.

The Power Booster (NGRX-PB) is $230 MSRP
Here is it's Spec sheet (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/pb.pdf) and Installation guide (http://www.lutron.com/instructions/030739a.pdf)


A single zone of a GRX can dim loads up to 800 watts, but the unit capacity of the entire GRX may limit you in certain applications (although this is VERY rare in HT applications).

** I edited the DEFINITIONS section of the first post to be more clear regarding load capacity.

The most common application for power boosters would be large chandeliers or multiple chandeliers in a grand foyer that have a LOT of little incandescent bulbs, they add up to some astronomical figures sometimes.

Another application would be a space with LOTS of recessed lights on a single zone like a large room or hall.

Outdoor lighting applications where you may have dozens of fixtures that you want to control together would be another application where you could easily exceed 800 watts.

Again, none of these applications is likely for a unit specified for home theater lighting control, but many people that are not yet ready for a complete whole home lighting control system may still decide to install GRX units in kitchens, dining rooms, foyers, etc. where there are a large number of fixtures that can be zoned and controlled for dramatic effect.

Basically, the Power Booster is powered by it's own circuit from the panel, and it is connected to the zone output of the GRX. It tracks the level from the GRX, and mirrors that intensity in it's own big internal dimmer that controls the load...

For SERIOUS loads, Lutron makes dimming panels that install near the electrical panel that can dim loads up to 10,000 watts, so a single GRX MR-6 or IA-6 could dim 60,000 watts of lighting!! Again this isn't a practical application, but it's possible!!

They work the same way in that they receive a zone output from another dimmer and mirror the level set by the Grafik Eye, Radio Ra dimmer, etc.


ELVI - Electronic Low Voltage Interface - This will allow the use of fixtures using Electronic Low Voltage (ELV) transformers. The ELV's, however, must be rated for dimming applications.

FDBI - Fluorescent Dimming Ballast Interface - Lutron offers a wide variety of dimming ballasts for fluorescent and compact fluorescent lamps. For example, if you wanted to put high CSI, 6500K fluorescent strip fixtures in your coves or soffits, you could dim these lamps with a Grafik Eye.

The ELVI (ELVI-1000) is $210 MSRP
Here is it's Spec sheet (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/elvi.pdf) and Installation guide (http://www.lutron.com/instructions/030739a.pdf)

The FDBI (GRX-FDBI) is $210 MSRP
Here is it's Spec sheet (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/fdbi.pdf) and Installation guide (http://www.lutron.com/instructions/030739a.pdf)

All three of the interfaces mentioned here physically look like a thick 2 gang blank white cover plate when installed. And each of them installs into a deep 2 gang box (similarly to a 2 zone GRX)

Since this does not really need to be in the room, it is usually hidden in a mechanical space, or most appropriately, back near the electrical panel.

FDBIs and dimmable ballasts are seen a lot in hotel conference rooms, schools, Government buildings, and other corporate buildings where they want the efficiency of fluorescent and still want to dim.

Before you decide that a fluorescent fixture is right for you, price out the control.
Dimming ballasts can be EXPENSIVE... especially considering you need a $210 box to talk to them, and if you want to split fluorescents into multiple zones, you will need an FDBI and a dimming ballast for each circuit.

To the best of my knowledge, the small dimming ballasts start at $210 MSRP and go up from there.

If you wish to invesigate the proper dimming ballasts for your fixtures, information can be found here (http://www.lutron.com/ballast/)

Government agencies & corporations amortize the expense of using these exotic ballasts and fixtures over years of savings from the efficiency of the fixtures.
Some companies must maintain certain efficient lighting to qualify for things like tax credits, grants, etc... IMO, politics plays more of a part in this than anything...

Since the average HT gets used less than a hundred hours per month, it will take a LOOONG time to break even vs. just choosing another fixture that will also perform better and dim more smoothly.
Dimming many types of fluorescents through dimming ballasts can have "jerky" or uneven ramping up or down during a fade, and have an undesireable "pulsing" effect sometimes at low levels...

If you choose to dim fluorescents, manually set your lowest point before this occurs so the fixture dims to that point and then just goes to off.

Please review the Lutron Application and Installation notes for each of these interfaces before using or purchasing.
Sage advice here from Dennis.

Also, if you think your project will be a candidate for any of these interfaces, it would probably be in your best intererest to consult a real lighting pro to help you sort things out.

Here's a condensed version of items gleaned from the Tips and Tricks thread, which rapidly turned into an Installation thread:

Don't try to make sense of the Grafik Eye line (and all the options and accessories) just by looking at the Lutron web site. The site is confusing and doesn't present the full line well (e.g. you'd never know that there is a SeeTouch series of wallstations just by looking at the site). Get your hands on a Lutron catalog and browse it. Lutron does a very good job of showing what is possible. You may need to go to a Lutron dealer to see one.
You can request literature by mail directly from Lutron on the web.

Use the link on this page: (it's also on every page of the Lutron site)
http://www.lutron.com/lutron/contact.asp#

Depending on your browser, you may have to temporarily enable pop-ups to use the "request literature" link.

Otherwise call Lutron customer service:
888-LUTRON-1

It is possible but not recommended to wire the Grafik Eye with the 14 or 12 AWG solid wire (e.g. in Romex). With 7-9 of them bolted to the unit it will be darn difficult to seat.
IMO, this is the benchmark of a good wiring job...
Taking care in routing wires and leaving nice bends so the unit isn't just mashed into place...

Whether or not you choose to pigtail, take some time and care to make sure the wires will go where you want them to go and lay neatly as you are sliding the GRX into place.

Also, understand the NEC calculations for box loading is *roughly* designed to provide adequate "air space" for all the elements in the box (clamps, conductors, etc.); however, NEC has not *yet* tackled the issue of electronic switches (ala, Grafik Eye, X-10, Vareo, etc.) which take up far more space in a box than a standard switch or duplex outlet.

Good point. While the volume of the GE is roughly the same as that occupied by four deep devices (which may not themselves be adequately reflected in the device allowances), those devices allow air to circulate between them; the GE does not. I guess one would calc the loading based on the leftover actual volume.

The Lutron dimensioned plan gives the dimmer body depth as 1 15/16". I asked Tedd to measure his 3104 for the other dimensions: 7 5/16" W and 2 3/4" H.

So the 4- and 6-zone GE takes about 36 in³ in the box.


I am uncertain as to whether the screw terminals on the GE should be counted as "clamps" in the calculations. (Should wire nuts?)

Ummm. Good point. 4- and 6-zone GE takes 87 in³ in the box. I guess one would calc the loading based on the leftover volume.

This is correct...

…MORE ABOUT ACCESSORY CONTROLS:

I have already gotten quite a few PMs in the very first day this has been up, and more than one mentioned elaborating on the Accessory Controls, so here goes…

To 1S, or not to 1S...
I am going to include a quote from a PM I received from Tedd.

you don't recommend the 1S controller for anything other then the 2400 series? (Outside of no LV for the 2400 series.)

Is it because of the simple zone 1/off, or two scene nature of the controller?
The limited nature of the 1S was a plus to me, as my theater needs/wants are fairly straightforward with my 3104.

Or did I overlook something (possibly important)?

A little expansion on your thought process to ruling out the 1S might be a good idea for the thread.

Sometimes, simpler can be better....

Well it is definitely the right choice for the 2400 series, because the NT-GRX-1S (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/ntgrx-1s.pdf) ($100 MSRP) is the ONLY choice for the 2400 series!!
As far as using the 1S with the 3100 and 3500 series, I understand your desire to keep the control at the entry very simple and it is certainly a good value, but personally feel that is not a good choice.

While it is simple, there are other controls that are also simple that operate on the MUX link vs. the line wiring that the 1S requires.

Since the 1S is the ONLY control that operates on line wiring, once you make the decision to wire for the 1S, the other options are out and you are pretty much limited to using the 1S.

If you wire the MUX cabling to your entrances, you have every option EXCEPT the 1S. If Lutron ever adds any more Accessory Control options for the GRX family (like they recently added the SeeTouch controls line) you can be sure that they will be MUX based.

If you change your mind and decide to go for a 5 button control that mimics the buttons on the unit, change to a SeeTouch control, or add a control with an IR receiver, you can make that change very simply by just plugging in the new unit.

If you were to make the change from a 1S to any other unit, replacing the wire may or not be easy depending on how your room is wired,

A dedicated conduit run from one box to the other would be simple to pull out the line cabling and fish in the LV cable.

If you have a conduit run that meets other line voltage runs in junction boxes would be more difficult. You cannot run LV cabling along with line voltage cabling, so if this were the case, you would need to install a dedicated conduit run to the area of the junction, maneuver the two runs and couple the new run to the existing run beside the junction and then cap the now unused knockout in the junction box.

If your cabling is ROMEX and stapled to the studs, you would have to possibly perform some wall surgery to remove it and pull the new MUX. (ROMEX would need to be removed; code states that you cannot leave un-terminated high voltage cabling in a wall).

ACCESSORY CONTROL OPTIONS:
I took the time to place specification sheet links on the various model numbers.

Another option for a simple Accessory Control would be the
NT-GRX-2B-SL (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/ntgrx-2b-sl-grp.pdf) $ 230 MSRP
This control has 2 large buttons with tiny LED indicators and is the most similar to the appearance of the 1S.

The benefit to this control vs. the 1S is that it can be programmed through dipswitch settings to be used as Zone 1, and All Off, or it can be used to trigger a pair of scenes which can be programmed to mimic other scenes, or set as dedicated scenes only to be accessed by that control. Whether or not this appeals to you now, the point is that you have these other options open.

Common Architectural Accessory Controls that feature the slim line buttons like what are on the face of the GRX include:

NTGRX-4S (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/grx_4S.pdf) $200 MSRP
This control has been the popular choice (before the SeeTouch arrived) because it has 4 scene buttons and an all off, just like the face of the GRX, plus a handy raise/lower button that allows you to fine tune an existing scene.

NTGRX-4S-IR (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/ntgrx-4s-ir-grp.pdf) $300 MSRP
This control is the same as the 4S, excpet you lose raise/lower and gain an IR receiver.

SeeTouch:
The number one comment has been to elaborate on the SeeTouch control keypad

Here (http://www.lutron.com/seetouch) is the home page of SeeTouch at the Lutron website.
You will find many links including worksheets on how to order custom engraving

Here is a SeeTouch Accessory Control keypad:
http://www.lutron.com/seetouch/Images/SeeTouchControl.jpg

This particular keypad is a SG-4SN-SN-EGN, which means it is a 4 button control w/ master raise/lower controls and a “non” insert coverplate in the Satin Nickel metal finish with black backlit buttons.

The SeeTouch comes in a variety of options, here are the most popular:

The SG-2BN (or SG-2BI "insert" version) (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/sg_2b.pdf) $ coming soon
Which is a very simple and elegant 2 button control

The SG-4NRLN (or SG-4NRLI "insert" version) (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/sg_4NRL.pdf) $ coming soon
Which has 4 scene control, plus all off

The SG-4SIRN (or SG-4SIRI "insert" version) (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/sg_4SIR.pdf) $ coming soon
Which has 4 scene control, raise/lower, all off, and an IR receiver.

Above I mentioned a "non-insert" coverplate, and I included alternate "insert" part #s for the SeeTouch controls.
I want to elaborate on why you would choose an "insert" control. An “insert” coverplate is similar (although not compatible) to a Decora coverplate on a traditional switch or receptacle, and allows multiple “insert” controls to be ganged together with other Lutron controls and neatly finished with a Lutron Insert coverplate.

Speaking of ganging them together, Another benefit to the SeeTouch controls is that they are the exact match to the controls for the Sivoia QED motorized shades and draperies. Because they are also wired with low voltage cabling, you can place Sivoia controls and SeeTouch lighting controls in the same wall box and gang them together using the “insert” style controls.

Here is a Sivoia 4 button control with master raise/lower and an IR receiver.
http://www.lutron.com/shadingsolutions/images/pop_svq-4wrl.jpg

Many multi-purpose media room style spaces have windows and more and more people are deciding to include blackout shades and/or drapery controls. Why not use the quietest shades on the market which are also easy to integrate into your theater’s remote AND have control keypads that match your theater lighting control keypad??

On that note, here (http://www.lutron.com/products/demos/#sivoia) is a GREAT demo on motorized shades:

This is correct...

How the heck do you make the little 3 to designate cubed??

Programs->Accessories->System Tools->Character Map

GRX COVERS:
I only briefly mentioned the coverplate options and available colors, so here is a more thourough description...

Once again, I will show the thumbnail pic of the GRX-MR4-T-WH (aka GRX-3104-T-WH)
http://www.dimmers.net/images/grafikeye/GRX-4102.jpg

This is a four zone unit with a White "T" cover. That means that the top portion is translucent, which means you can see the status LEDs of the various zones.

STYLES:
There are two styles of covers, "A" style and "T" style.

The "A" cover would have the top portion "opaque" and the same color as the bottom of the cover.

COLORS

OK, now here (http://www.lutron.com/products/colors/) is a link to the online color samples. Some of these are not available for Grafik Eye.

Here are the available colors and styles that are available for the Grafik Eye coverplate:

Architectural Matte Finishes:
Available on A and T style covers
White (WH)
Ivory (IV)
Almond (AL)
Beige (BE)
Brown (BR)
Grey (GR)
Black (BL)

Designer Gloss Finishes:
Available on A style covers only
Gloss White (GWH)
Gloss Light Almond (GLA)
Gloss Almond (GAL)
Gloss Ivory (GIV)

Satin Colors (http://www.lutron.com/products/colors/default.asp#designer) Matte Finishes:
Available on A and T style covers
Hot (HT)
Ochre (OC)
Terracotta (TC)
Desert Stone (DS)
Stone (ST)
Limestone (LS)
Blue Mist (BT)
Midnight (MN)
Taupe (TP)
Biscuit (BI)
Eggshell (ES)
Snow (SW)

METAL FINISHES

Architectural Metal Finishes:
Available on "T" style covers only
Bright Brass (BB)
Bright Chrome (BC)
Satin Brass (SB)
Satin Chrome (SC)
Satin Nickel (SN)
Antique Brass (QB)
Antique Bronze (QZ)
Bright Nickel (BN)

Anodized Aluminum Finishes:
Available on "T" style covers only
Clear (CLA)
Black (BLA)
Brass (BRA)
Bronze (BZA)

ENGRAVING & CUSTOM COLORS:

Either of these options requires that you work with a lighting showroom (ie: not a home center) or an experienced high end home theater dealer that is experienced in handling these special orders.

Either option also requires an additional 4-6 weeks of additional lead time.

Engraving:
You can also have any of the metal finish plates engraved on custom order.

Custom Colors:
Lutron can custom color match a GRX cover to just about any solid color that you can provide.

They will also apply custom color to third party plates for a fee.
My company has had Lutron color match white keypads from audio companies to match the Lutron keypads. This is not cheap.

For those of you who own a Grafik Eye, you can replace your plate at any time with another color or finish, or order custom color or engraved plates and replace them yourselves.

It is unlikely that the places that sell Grafik Eyes on the internet will accomodate such special orders.

Your best bet is to contact a full service lighting design showroom that sells Lutron, or an experienced Lutron home theater dealer such as Dennis or myself or one near you, check the AVS Custom Installer Database (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=420992).

Hi-

You asked which wall units I have. I have two of these at the bottom of my stairs.
http://www.lutron.com/seetouch/Images/SeeTouchControl.jpg

One is for the HT and one is for the main parts of the basement (cans in romper, fireplace, pool rooms, and sconces in the last two). This is the more versatile model because you can set up your scenes on the GE, lock them in, then use the wall unit for temporary raise/lower tweaks (or in my case, my 2-yr old's tweaks). The "all off" is great, too. They make a model that is one step up and has an IR port, if I remember correctly.

I was told the SeeTouch line is really what you should be using for GEs these days.

There is one additional item to keep in mind with a Grafik Eye when considering whether to use a NT-GRX-1S or an accessory control. With the exception of 3500 series Grafik Eyes with a Homeworks system or serial interface, an off command on any Grafik Eye will turn off all lights wired to that main unit. A GRX-1S selects scene 1 and only scene 1 and off. It is to the best of my knowledge the only toggle logic available on a Grafik Eye. If your installation is a retro fit you may have to employ a GRX-1S. But you give up a lot of flexibility in so doing. If all the lights you are controlling are in one room this may not be a big deal. But if one of those lights is also in the hall leading to that room it can be a big deal. Moreover, it is much easier to deal with a low voltage wire than a 2 wire Romex cable.

There a few more issues with respect to the MUX link that need to be addressed. One is how to wire the MUX link. Remember if interconnecting multiple main units not to connect pin 2 ( power ) on the MUX link of those main units. The chip set in a Grafik Eye is relatively old. It is a quasi RS-485 network. The relevant fact is that the MUX link MUST be wired from point to point from device to device. It should never be a home run or a T-tap. While I have seen these methods work on very short runs it is a gamble and it does not follow manufacturer's specification.

I am also waiting for the first smart individual to ask what the power limitiations on a MUX link are? In other words how many accessory devices can you add before needing to add an extra power supply? Not a big deal if all you are installing one in a theater. But if you have 2 accessory keypads, a serial interface and contact closure interface ( for shades and projector screens ) how many controls can you add to a GE MUX link without adding an additional power supply?

Answer is 3 Accessory Controls/Main Unit without adding an additional power supply. The specifications on that power supply are a regulated 12v dc supply rated for a minimum of .6A or 600mA. This will power up to 16 Accessory Controls.
Alan

They make a model that is one step up and has an IR port, if I remember correctly.
I made a change on the Accessory Controls thread a few posts up to clearly identify differences between the models, and specifically identified the IR model.

I was told the SeeTouch line is really what you should be using for GEs these days.
I would say this is absolutely true.

Even if you arent planning on engraving, the fit and finish is much nicer.

Personally, I have never really liked the slim buttons on the Architectural models.

Too bad you can't get a GE with SeeTouch buttons...

To expand on the method Toxarch described in the thread - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=554441&highlight=grafik+eye

For those of us using Universal Remote RF remotes the IR emitters that come with the MRF-250 (and I assume their other receivers) split in half easily to reveal a much smaller IR diode as pictured below that should fit nicely under the faceplate of the Grafik Eye.
You could even file it down a bit more from the approximately 2.5mm to about 2mm without much trouble.

http://www.macfetish.com/MiscImages/IR-Emitter.jpg

Hit refresh in your browser if you don't see the image

One of the nice things about having a wall station is you can use it to access scenes 5-8, 9-12, or 13-16. As I stated before, I have 2 GE units and 2 wall stations. The wall stations are located at the bottom of the stairs so I can enter the basement, hit two buttons, and light the whole floor. Wall station #1, for the general areas addresses scenes 1-4 for GE #1. On the other hand, the wall station #2, for the HT addresses scenes 5-8, 3 of which are ambient/pre-show scenes which can draw you in (or keep you out) of the HT.

You don't need a wall station to take advantage of additional scenes. You can also use an IR remote to access scenes 5-8. I believe there are codes somewhere.

It gets more fun...
If I wanted I could have GE #1 "listen" to both wall stations, as well as listen to GE#2, while GE#2 only listens to one wall station. By doing that I could hit a scene in the HT and change the whole floor. If I had a remote I could hit scene 5 (for example) in the HT and set the whole floor. Permutations, permutations, permutations...

As a small addition to the IR reveiver tip that have been detailed by Mac medic and Toxarch, I would also add that when you have the emitter disassembled (see Mac medic's post prior to this) and routed on the front of the GRX as Toxarch posted, (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=39285) you can avoid the bulge under the faceplate by placing a neat strip of good black elec tape (3M Super 33+ is the pros choice, and don't tear here, use scissors for a neat cut) over the emitter head and then pop out the little translucent black circular window in the cover.

Hopefully on the first try you will get the emitter to seat into the hole left by the translucent eye and the cover will sit flush and the black tape over the little bulge of the emitter will fill the hole on the face and you cannot tell that the window is gone.

This may take a minute or two a tweaking to acheive the perfect fit and perfect look, but that's what we do right??

Trust me, this looks great. I have done many this way.

I will get a pic up of a cover I modded like this sometime in the next couple weeks.

you can avoid the bulge under the faceplate by placing a neat strip of good black elec tape (3M Super 33+ is the pros choice, and don't tear here, use scissors for a neat cut) over the emitter head and then pop out the little translucent black circular window in the cover.

Hopefully on the first try you will get the emitter to seat into the hole left by the translucent eye and the cover will sit flush and the black tape over the little bulge of the emitter will fill the hole on the face and you cannot tell that the window is gone.

This may take a minute or two a tweaking to acheive the perfect fit and perfect look, but that's what we do right??

Trust me, this looks great. I have done many this way.

I will get a pic up of a cover I modded like this sometime in the next couple weeks.

Personally, I prefer to use coax seal in place of tape or glue but to each his own.

Alan

Coax seal looks like a great solution for many things!

For those of you who don't know what it is (I had to Google it) here is the description from Parts Express (and the link to buy it):

Coax-Seal is a special material which will quickly and effectively seal all types of coaxial fittings of any shape from moisture, water and corrosion. Coax-Seal stays flexible for years thus insuring moisture proof connections. Insures good SWR and long coax life. Coax-Seal also allows you to disconnect and reconnect fittings with the same material by simply re-forming the plastic. Coax-Seal is the only material that will adhere to vinyl and poly vinyl connector outer covers. Coax-Seal is non-toxic, non-corrosive, non-conducting, and has hundreds of uses in electronics. 1/2" x 60". Stays flexible at any temperature.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=180-205

BTW - Parts Express is a pleasure to deal with (and no, I don't work there).

I've learned more on this Forum form guys like audiblesolutions, Cinemascope, Dennis, etc than I have from years of reading trade magazines - Thanks again!

I use that stuff outdoors quite a bit, but I have never thought to use it in this application...
I bet it would also work well to keep the cover flat and straight if you busted any of the snap mounts.

Actually, I picked up a roll of gaffers tape and use that quite a bit as well, I would think that cutting a thin strip of gaffers tape would probably work very well to keep that emitter lead in place.

Anyone not familiar, It is basically cloth based duct tape, it's black, it sticks better than duct tape, and it's anywhere from $9 to $20 per roll.

It doesn't let go over time like e-tape does (unless it's wrapped, lightly stretching a good tape like Super 33+ by applying tension as you wrap it makes it stick forever).

I will be the first to say that any brand of e-tape on a flat surface is not the best solution.

The e-tape over the emitter works well, because it looks like the window that was removed when it bulges into that hole.

I noticed at the very top of this thread several people (including the author) believe the Spacer System won't save any money.

My question is, if I only have 3-4 zones and really only want 3-4 scenes....I would have to spend +600$ even on the bottom end GE as apposed to less than 400$ with the Spacer. (4 dimmers and master control)

Am I missing something about the Spacer System that is going to substantially increase the cost and offset this several hundred dollar difference?

Thx,
Dan

This is a question that should not be in a "definitive" GE thread. Better to begin a new thread or post this question in one of the other Grafik Eye threads extant. Without getting into all the details, there is a lot more electronics in a GE than just an additional 12 scenes, low voltage network, size and type of loads it can dim. There are significant differences in the type and kind of filtering in a GE as opposed as System Spacer, the components by which that dimming is accomplished and the coarseness of the dimming intensity. There is an obvious difference between the aesthetics of the two systems.

Alan

Alan,

Thanks for the response. Your reply is good information that (IMHO) kinda does belong in this thread as it directly relates to the advantages of the GE.

In any case...I do really apprciate your help.

Dan

Stima, your numbers are questionable. The GRX-2404 (Grafik Eye) is only $380 online (Lutron dealer).

And see my numbers in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=554908&highlight=spacer+grafik).

DMF,

I am beginning to believe I looked at some of the higher priced e-retailers. :o I saw the MSRP's listed and found a couple retailers (Georgia Home Theaters was one) who listed the same price...so I (incorrectly) assumed the MSRP was the going price for GE's.

I appreciate your reference to the price breakdown as well. I believe my system would be slightly simpler (no remote switches or accessories). I figured the price at $67x3 + $105 master + $75 remote = $380. At the time, this was several hundred dollars less than what I found for even the cheapest GE.

In either case, thanks as well for your input.

Dan

PS. Noticed your in Atlanta...as am I. :)

Some questions about remote controlling the GEs.

The attic conversion I am having done is a roughly an L-shaped room. The back part of the room (the long part of the L) will have a pool table and a poker table, and have 4-5 lighting zones. The front part of the room is slightly lower and will be a front projection area and it will have 4 lighting zones.

If I use a GE to contol the back part of the room and a separate GE to control the front part, will I be able to independently control each GE with my Pronto remote?

That's a Pronto question. Ask in the Remotes Controls forum.

That's a Pronto question. Ask in the Remotes Controls forum.

No, it's actually a GE question. I know a pronto can control a single GE. I want to know if two GEs, installed in the same room, can be independently controlled via remote. E.g., I want GE #1 to do a full power off but GE#2 to remain as is -- if I use a remote to do that, will both GEs end up doing a full power off (because they both saw the ir signal for full power off).

I know that if you have two single location Spacer dimmers in the same room, they both will react to a remote control signal. There is no way to have one Spacer ignore signals intended for the other if they are both in the line of sight of the IR signal.

This thread is not for general discussion of the GE et al. Start a different thread. If some good info arises from it, we'll incorporate here.

I know a pronto can control a single GE. I want to know if two GEs, installed in the same room, can be independently controlled via remote. E.g., I want GE #1 to do a full power off but GE#2 to remain as is
Yes, this is possible. In fact, you can link the two GE's together and have them perform as a single unit if you want.

Yes, this is possible. In fact, you can link the two GE's together and have them perform as a single unit if you want.

I disagree with this advice--although it can be done. The problem with linking together Grafik Eyes without some processor in between is the off button. Press off on linked Grafik Eyes and both turn off. They will not be independent unless you talk to them via serial or with a Homeworks processor. If you place 2 Grafik Eyes on the same Mux link and fire an IR code or press a button both units will respond. If you use an accessory control and "assign" that control to a GE you may get around that problem with clever scene programming ( such as program scenes 13-16 in one but 9-12 in the other. )

There is only one IR driver in Lutron world. Ok, Spacer has a few different IR codes than Grafik Eyes so maybe 1.5 is a more accurate answer. The only way to separate this problem is the same way you would any device with the same IR code set and that is a zone IR controller. If you want truly independent control you will accomplish that ONLY by using all 16 scenes and programming them differently on each GE, eg., scenes 5-10 on the first and 11-16 on the second.



This thread is not for general discussion of the GE et al. Start a different thread. If some good info arises from it, we'll incorporate here.

I should think that IR control of a GE or how to program a GE or multiple GEs for IR should be part of a "definitive" Grafik Eye thread. It certainly seems more germane than a comparison with System Spacer.

Alan

Of course it is. But he asked about a Pronto. You want to cover every remote on this thread?

As I understand it, each GE can be given a separate address on the MUX line, which is how e.g. the Homeworks processor can talk to them separately. *If* that address can be incorporated into the IR command set, then they can be addressed individually (for those functions that incorporate the address).

Hmm. I guess you have a point. The potential command set is defined by Lutron, not by the remote makers.

Where can we find a definition of the GE command set?

Btw, the GRX-CIR (ceiling mounted IR remote) claims to be able to address individual GEs. It lives on the MUX line.

Btw, the GRX-CIR (ceiling mounted IR remote) claims to be able to address individual GEs. It lives on the MUX line.

The IR command set does NOT include the Addressing 1-8. A remote sending a GE IR code is very much like a Tivo IR code. ( Don't go to the multiple IR codes for Tivo because there are but one IR code in the GE world. Send a GE IR code and all units receiving that code respond. ).

You wish to add GRX-CIR and you have hit upon one IR solution. But a zone IR controller would also work but it forces you to go to the extra work of placing an emitter inside the electrical box and inside the GE.

This is a very old com link. Serial control and quasi serial control is what occurs in a Homeworks system ( it mimics the IA serial command protocol ) which is how Homeworks gets around the comm bus limitations of a Grafik Eye bus. Hell, install a Crestron or AMX control system with a GRX-232 ( now referred to as the GRX-IA-232 ) and you can approximate this control. Or use some IR to serial converter box with a serial to MUX link interface. However, if you remain on the MUX link without sending serial commands there are serious limitations as to what you can accomplish if you expect to control multiple units interconnected on the MUX link. To get around this issue, many years ago I used multiple GRX-AVs. The MUX link is a versatile useful addition--and an other reason to prefer a GE over a system spacer in a theater application ( contact closures can be very useful, especially for controlling shades/drapes ) but you will want to take special care when dealing with multiple GEs. The problem is that the more you kludge the system to work as you need the better the idea of a Homeworks processor, or real control system appears. Even with you guys going to E-tailers and ebay this can become a very expensive solution if more than one unit is required.

I do not deal with Prontos but is it not a fancy universal remote little different from a hard coded remote save for its ( useless ) graphical abilities? Do not all of these kinds of remotes (Pronto, URC, Universal Electronics or Radio Shack ) not do the same thing? As in send an IR command to the device? I do not care if it's a Crestron system sending the IR code. As long as that command can be received by multiple units they will all be affected. THE ONLY TIME THIS IS NOT THE CASE IS WHEN YOU BURY AN emitter INSIDE EACH UNIT AND TRANSMIT THE CODE SEPARATELY. Send that code out of a universal remote --which is what you DIYs prefer to do -- and all main units whose receivers receive that code will respond. Send it directly to an emitter buried in the main unit and only that unit will respond. If you have an IR repeater system you will need to use a zone IR system.

No one has covered the arcane method of adding accessory controls to a main unit. It does involve more than setting the dip switches for the scenes that unit will control.

Alan

Cinemascope ...
You might want to add information on the Partition Control and Radio RA GE and GE Radio RA interface adaptor.

Joealtus,
Your scenario can be easily solved with the GRX-IRI (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/GRX_IRI.pdf) interface.

Run a MUX link cable from each GRX to the rack, or wherever you have installed your Pronto's base station.

You will be placing an emitter right on the back of this unit INSIDE the box, but since this is an entirely low voltage box, there are no issues in doing this.

The GRX-IRI is one of only two Accessory Controls that allows use of the new Pro-IR commands that allows you to directly control scenes, master raise/lower, and all off to any single GRX on the MUX system, as well as to all GRX units on the MUX system.

The other Accessory control is the SeeTouch SG-PRO (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/sg_PRO.pdf), which is also an attractive 4 scene plus all off control with master raise/lower. In comparison with the GRX-IRI that can be accept a stick on emitter, this unit receives line of sight only through it's IR receiver on the face.

These two controls are the ONLY devices that allow this as of today, and this is the best way to get around the situation Alan describes above without relying on an advanced routing scheme from the base station of a powerful remote system like the RTI RP-6 or URC MRF-300 bases. (I am personally not as familiar with Pronto base programming, perhaps someone can elaborate)

The biggest advantage is that if you ever change remotes (and we never do that, do we??) then you will only have to address the GRX-IRI instead of re-creating the entire elaborate prgram in the new system.

Cinemascope ...
You might want to add information on the Partition Control and Radio RA GE and GE Radio RA interface adaptor.

I have not even SEEN a partition control that I can recall.
Leave it to Dennis to give me homework!!

I'm on it.

As for the RadioRa interfaces, I am very familiar with these and I will draft a detailed post and place it later tonight.

--Rick.

Hmm. Now that I read between the lines, the GRX-CIR spec doesn't actually say that it can control *discrete* GEs, rather "• Selects scenes in just one Control Unit or a group of up to eight Control Units." You could read that as saying that it sends the scene number to everything it's linked to.

It can map the scenes numbers that are in the IR set to those that aren't.

I had a long chat with Lutron about how to order the metal finish options (http://www.lutron.com/products/colors/) and custom engraving (button labels) for seeTouch® wallstations. I believe these procedures apply to the other product lines, too.

The metal finishes are available by special order only. A special order takes about 6 weeks longer to fill.
While it appears from the online document (http://www.lutron.com/seetouch/seetouchA.pdf) that wallstation special colors are ordered by code (e.g. -QZ for antique bronze), this is not true (as a later version of the document supposedly makes clear; I haven't seen it). The color code in a wallstation order may not include a special finish. E.g. SG-4SN-SN... is an invalid code.
Only the faceplate is the special color/finish.¹ "Insert" models use a standard R3 Decora cutout which leaves non-button surface exposed. "Non-insert" models use wallplate cutouts specific to the wallstation - only buttons are exposed. (The Insert models are recommended for multi-gang installations, but it appears to be possible to order Non-insert multi-gang metal plates using the Insert codes.)
To order a special finish wallstation generate two line items, one for the wallstation and the other for the faceplate: Order the wallstation in the basic color that you want for the buttons and (in the case of Insert models) the insert (e.g. for the metal finishes, Black). The wallstation will come with a single-gang plastic wallplate of that color that is discarded at installation. E.g. to order a -4S Insert wallstation in satin nickel with black buttons, first order SG-4SI-BL-...
Order the special finish wallplate. The ordering code for wallplates is a concatenation of NT + list of Insert codes + Spacing code + Color code. A simplex bright chrome Decora plate is NT-R3-FB-BC. (FB is standard spacing.) A duplex satin nickel Decora plate is NT-R3R3-FB-SN.
Not all wallstations have the same shape cutout. There is a separate doument for the codes to specify non-insert wallplate cutouts but it is not in the general catalog or online. Contact Lutron Tech Support for the appropriate code.
There is a $200 per order "setup charge", even for wallplates that are otherwise standard Claro shapes.
To give an idea of the costs, a simplex special finish wallplate lists at $100. A duplex special finish wallplate lists at $160.
Non-standard Engraving (button text) lists at $70. This is probably per wallstation.
It is possible to change button/insert/wallplate colors after installation. These are the SR- series of kits.
Like the special finishes, non-standard engraving must be ordered as a separate line item in the form of an SR- kit. For example, to order a 4S wallstation with Satin Nickel finish and non-standard button labels: 1 SG-4SI-BL-EGN 4S wallstation, Insert-style, Black, numbered buttons
or SG-4SN-BL-EGN non-insert style (the SR kit will change it)
1 NT-R3-FB-SN Satin Nickel wallplate
1 SR-4SI-BL-NST custom engraving button kit [enclose engraving form]
These facts are not widely known in Lutron tech and customer support, but the excellent support people will find the answers that they don't have to hand. Thank you Rich and Angela!

Lastly, the special metal finishes LOOK GREAT! :D
----------------
¹ This may apply only to metal finishes. Other dimmer models including the very similar RadioRA wallstations are shown in the catalog with the insert matching the wallplate color (e.g. p.172, p.236).

The metal finishes do look great but I would caution that if you expect to order a metal finish for the main unit the metal cover may act as heat sinks and be very hot to the touch--as in 110-120F. I have never ordered a metal finish for a Grafik Eye but I have for many a Vario. And those Varios were all very hot to the touch. If you are restricting you metal cover plates to accessory controls this will be of no concern. I wonder if the Architrave can be special ordered with blue or green leds as it can with Homeworks. The Architrave with blue leds is so coooool.

Alan

I have a satin nickel GE mounted. Still waiting for the lumenaires. I'll report on temperatures when I observe some. ;)

I like the look of Architrave too, but my wallstations need to mount in duplex.

Thanks for the great info on the Grafik Eye, the suggestion of the mason box will save me some headaches later. I am just getting ready to drywall and it would have been a pain to find out the 3 gang plastic box I have installed is too small.

I have a 3000 series 3 zone Grafik Eye that I will be installing in the room. I know the GE will take dimming commands from a remote. However I was wondering if the remote has to be directly pointed at the unit for it to work. My GE will be at a 90 degree angle from the seating postions. I was hoping to use a good Harmony remote or the like to run my audio/video equipment and use the macros to dim the lights while starting the movies. If the remote is pointed towards the front of the room at the AV stuff will it still be able to dim the lights, or is line of site a must with the built in IR of the GE.

I have read about IR repeaters. Are these special or specific to Lutron and GE or are there 3rd party vendors that make these for the GE. My wiring skills are pretty basic. Right now the GE is wired with one power line into the box, a common neutral for the GE and then each zone running out to the cans. Is an IR repeater (or I've also read they might be called "IR blasters") something I need and is it difficult to install?

Thanks for all the great info. I'm just finishing up insulation of the room and still have time to correct anything I overlooked.

Just so it doesn't get lost, thanks to arjo-reich here is the link to the 2005 NEC online (http://www.nfpa.org/freecodes/free_access_agreement.asp?id=7005SB&cookie%5Ftest=1).

You won't be able to copy or print it. They still want you to buy a copy. But it is useful to have an up to date copy that you can't lose.

Thanks for the great info on the Grafik Eye, the suggestion of the mason box will save me some headaches later. I am just getting ready to drywall and it would have been a pain to find out the 3 gang plastic box I have installed is too small.

I have a 3000 series 3 zone Grafik Eye that I will be installing in the room. I know the GE will take dimming commands from a remote. However I was wondering if the remote has to be directly pointed at the unit for it to work. My GE will be at a 90 degree angle from the seating postions. I was hoping to use a good Harmony remote or the like to run my audio/video equipment and use the macros to dim the lights while starting the movies. If the remote is pointed towards the front of the room at the AV stuff will it still be able to dim the lights, or is line of site a must with the built in IR of the GE.

I have read about IR repeaters. Are these special or specific to Lutron and GE or are there 3rd party vendors that make these for the GE. My wiring skills are pretty basic. Right now the GE is wired with one power line into the box, a common neutral for the GE and then each zone running out to the cans. Is an IR repeater (or I've also read they might be called "IR blasters") something I need and is it difficult to install?

Thanks for all the great info. I'm just finishing up insulation of the room and still have time to correct anything I overlooked.

I would like to know the answer to this as well - I also want to control my lights with sceens from the Grafik eye and all my rack A/V from the same remote. I'm guessing you will need a IR repeater to do this.

gary

There are a couple of Lutron accessories - notably GRX-CIR - that relay commands to the GE using the data link.

You can also use IR repeaters, but it's tricky to get the emitter inside the GE cover. There are a couple of recent threads on this. Use Search.

There are a couple of Lutron accessories - notably GRX-CIR - that relay commands to the GE using the data link.

You can also use IR repeaters, but it's tricky to get the emitter inside the GE cover. There are a couple of recent threads on this. Use Search.

If I put the Grafik Eye in the front of the theater, there is no need for an emitter inside the cover - right? Any remote will trigger the Grafik eye with line of sight to resolve this.

Gary

In general, yes. But check the IR photometrics in the GE Specs document. There's a surprisingly narrow angle of incidence.

OK will do. Looks like I will run a emmitter to the grafik eye anyway since the walls are open (just in case). never hurts to be prepared.

thanks for the info,

gary

There is one part in this thread I am curious about"

"You can also use a zone in switch mode as a programmabe relay to trigger fans, window shades, screens, lifts,etc., although there are better ways to achieve this IMO."

I will be installing a motorized shade to cover a window and wanted to be able to control this via my remote. I thought about using one of the zones on a Graffik Eye to do this (just open or closed).

What are the better ways you elude to?

Dave

I was a little mystified about reference to the "switch mode" so I did some research:

When you set up a zone in the GE, you enter load type. (The type defaults to Incandescent/MLV so it's rarely changed.) Two options are NON-DIM, where the GE simply acts as a switch. Any scheduled output turns the zone ON; no output turns it OFF.

Note: These are not momentary ONs. The circuit is powered so long as the zone is ON at any level.

Any idea if this also an option with a flourescent light (or in my case, a movie marque)? I'd like the GE to turn the marquee on/off as per scene.

Yes, but there's this note:

■ Fluorescent non-dim loads with electronic or magnetic ballast must use: a GRX-TVI interface ... or ... HP 2*4*6 ...

When using the Lutron GRX-CBL-346S Class 2/PELV cable (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A//www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/cables_nonplenum.pdf&ei=WGoCQ6VHj87hAant9CY) to wire accessory controls, there is a jacketless 24 AWG drain wire in the shielded bundle. This wire is not shown in any of the wiring diagrams, so what to do with it? After receiving two apparently incomplete answers (one from Lutron Tech Support) I stumbled across this on p.5 of the Installer's Guide for Models MR and IA, under 'Installing Accessory Controls, Mounting':

3. Connect two ... pairs for Class 2/PELV wiring (daisy-chain between stations)†.

† If shielded wire is used, the drain wire must also be daisy-chained. Do not connect drain wire to earth/ground or Accessory Control (unless a "D" terminal is present).

I think the MSRP on the 3506 is $1150.

To add PC and RS-232 interfaces to the 3500 series one needs the GRX-PRG for about $800. It combines the RS-232 interface with a real-time clock so that the 3500 control unit can be programmed by a PC (Lutron has lighting control programs) and scheduled like a timer. One GRX-PRG can be used with up to 8 control units.

I just called a place to find out about programming the 3506. They are not aware of this GRX-PRG needed to program the 3506. They obviously don't know what they are selling and are useless.

Do you have any link to info on this GRX-PRG? What kind of hardware is this? If this is true and the cost of purchasing the 3506 is an additional $800, then it makes more sense to program at the unit with the 3106.

thanks for any info DMF,

Gary

GaryKagan,

The GRX-PRG is an external box tha add's RS-232 control & timer functions.

BE CAREFUL! I told my installer I wanted to control the system via RS-232 and he installed a RS-232 add on, not the PRG. Only the PRG can control individual zones- the standard RS-232 controller is limited to controlling scene's only.

Here's a link to the basic documentation: documentation (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/grx-prg.pdf)

control is very easy, and it uses the same commands as the standard rs-232, plus new commands to set the timer functions and individual zone control.

Thanks, looks like I will stick with the 3106, program scenes at the unit and call it a day. Keeps it in budget that way...

thanks all,

Gary

GaryKagan,
BE CAREFUL! I told my installer I wanted to control the system via RS-232 and he installed a RS-232 add on, not the PRG. Only the PRG can control individual zones- the standard RS-232 controller is limited to controlling scene's only.

Does one need the GRX-PRG to set the lighting in 1% increments or just for timed events and individual zone control?

Does anyone know (or know of a chart or website that compares) the features of the GRX-PRG vs. the GRX-IA-232 ?

The Spec Sheet PDFs of each list the features.

The Liaison software is (obviously) designed to work with the -PRG, but the -232 command set seems to be a subset, so it might work too. If I get some time today I'm going to try it.

Only way to tell for sure on the 1% control is to look at the -232 command set. (See Lutron tech page for that document.)

This PDF show's the commands available to both the RS232 & the PRG.

You can make your own decision if the -232 command set is enough. It wasn't for me.

http://www.vimco.com/onespec/applications/av/3k4k_RS232.pdf

Use this one (http://www.lutron.com/technical_info/rs232proginst/3k4k_RS232.pdf) on the Lutron web site. The one on the vimco site is 1998 vintage.

I tried to talk to the -232, but of all the orphan wall warts, I don't have a single 12VDC. But I did play with the Liaison application. It doesn't seem to want to talk to a -232, or do much of anything with a 3100 series GE. It may not be useful for this.

Okay, got the -232 powered and talking via the Liason software's Terminal Mode. No devices hooked in, so I can't programmatically change scenes (e.g.). It understands NONE of the -PRG commands, returning errors on all.

The -232 parts of the command set is pretty limited. You can:
report or set the scene on a control unit,
sequence through scene groups (1-4 or 5-16, no combos),
raise or lower a specific zone (NOT set X intensity, just Start/Stop Lowering or Raising),
get the firmware version.

That's all!

Frankly, I don't find it useful for a small installation. :(

Let me muck up the waters a bit ...
The Lutron PRG is $800 ... you're going to get a $1000 pronto system (ok, maybe a bit less).
You can get a Crestron ST-LT for $600, a Crestron CP2 for $800 ... now all you need is a touch panel and you can control your entire HT system and eventually integrate HVAC and whole house functions over time. Hummmm

Darn you, Erskine!


;)

I don't see how the savings of $50 or so of the GRX-232 vs. the GRX-PRG is that big of a deal, but if you don't care about the astronomical clock, save the money.

DMF, using Liason is not really intended for our market... and a GRX-232 or GRX-PRG will not work with a 3100 series GRX.

The real value is to be able to use the GRX-232 (or GRX-PRG) to allow a 3500 series GRX to accept serial commands from a controller like the ones commonly used in theater and whole house installs from AMX, Crestron, and RTI.

Even with a modestly priced RTI RP-6, you can send commands for any combination of zones from one to all to dim to any percentage from 1% to 99% over any duration from 1 second to

I agree with Dennis that pushing the state of the art with GRX is a little short sighted compared to getting started with a real control system (like AMX or Crestron) and a real lighting control system (like Lutron HomeWorks Interactive).

There is one part in this thread I am curious about"

"You can also use a zone in switch mode as a programmabe relay to trigger fans, window shades, screens, lifts,etc., although there are better ways to achieve this IMO."

I will be installing a motorized shade to cover a window and wanted to be able to control this via my remote. I thought about using one of the zones on a Graffik Eye to do this (just open or closed).

What are the better ways you elude to?

Dave
You can implement contact closures and voltage triggers more effectively through just about any level of automation system that can be triggered by other sources and not just as a part of lighting scenes.

Models from Xantech & RDL Labs are among the reasonably priced solutions that are pretty easy to implement with any level of remote.

AMX and Crestron have relays directly on the controllers for anyone at that level.

... a GRX-232 ... will not work with a 3100 series GRX. The Lutron GRX-RS232 docs disagree with you. :) They claim compatibility with "Grafik Eye 3000 and 4000 Series Control Units", and the wiring diagram (p.4) shows it connected to a 3103. I could hook mine up and try it if you really want...

Otherwise, I see the point about using a real control system. I really only purchased this to play with, and now see what I have learned. :D


Btw, I don't get your point about the relative cost of the -232 and the -PRG. I picked up the -232 for about $150. Cheapest I've seen the -PRG is almost $800 (although I haven't priced it through my wholesaler). Can it be had for $200 or so?

The comment was based on a retail price of $750 for the GRX-232 in Lutron's price sheet.

I don't know if there has been a massive price shift or if you benefitted from some sort of closeout, but even dealer and distributor pricing is significantly higher than what you paid.

Personally, I would love to buy a GRX-232 for $150....

The compatibility with the 3100 series is not guaranteed, but it may work.

You certainly cannot access 1% dimming increments or zone specific dimming, because the 3100 will not support these functions at all.

If it works at all, it will likely be a carbon copy of the IR control, and you may be able to access status through the GRX-232 to a touchscreen if that's the way you use it.

The 3500 series will definitely allow status with a GRX-232.

I picked up my GRX-3106 during fixture sales for the Ultimate Electronics closures in Dallas. The 3106 was linked to a GRX-232 which I picked up as well. Haven't hooked them up yet, but given that UE had it hooked up this way, and documentation indicates so, the -232 should be compatible with the 3100 series. I have a small HT I am buidling (13x18). Trying to figure out if I really have a use for the GRX-232.

Regards,
Bob

Will your HT be PC controlled?

If so, serial communication is great for automating the process.
5 minute warning flashes the lights on a zone or two
Starting the movie turns off lights
Pausing the movie brings up a low-light scene.
stopping the movie brings up the house lights, etc...

I've set up my home theater intro video to include a lighting demonstration (pointing out the speaker's, bringing up the star field, flashing lights on a lightning strike etc...).

IMHO it adds a level of professioinalism that differentiates the experience.

My NTGRX-4S-IV wall unit always has all 4 LED's lit. From reading the 3106 manual, it appears that only the scene selected should be lit.

Do I need the 3106 to be set to A-, 5 and 6 to be in the up position with the wall unit set to 5 and 6 in the down position?

Come to think of it, the wall unit has never really indicated it communicates with the 3106, although I can select a button there and program it at the 3106. Sounds like they are on different scenes.

And a real bugger is the universal remote codes don't seem to trigger anything other than a zone 5 on the 3106.

Why don't one of you come over to program these for me. The manual is not much help after the 10th reading. argh

With gas prices the way they are, a service call to Michigan could cost a pretty penny, let's see if we can walk you though this...

I don't like to assume anything, but for this I will assume that you have used the correct MUX cable between the NT-GRX-4S Wallstation and the GRX and that the connections were made according to the instructions in the Installation Guides...

It sounds like your issues revolve around addressing your Wallstation and getting it to communicate to the GRX.

Here is the description for how to accomplish this in straightforward language:

Step One: Address the Wallstation
If the dipswitches 1-4 on the NT-GRX-4S are all up, that means you are addressing that wall control as "location #1". If you only have one wallstation, then this is what you want.

(If you have multiple wallstations connected to the GRX, assign them each their own location number by referencing the dipswitch settings on page 4 of the GRX Wallstation Installation Guide)
http://www.lutron.com/instructions/030814a.pdf.

Step Two: Address the GRX
Put the GRX into setup mode by pressing the "Scene 1" and "Off" buttons simultaneously for 3-4 seconds.

Flip up the cover and scroll through the Setup modes with the arrows in the FADE box, watching the readout on the LED window which is also in the FADE box.
Once it reads "A-", you are at the Address menu. (if it reads Sd, Sc, LS, or LC, keep scrolling up or down with the FADE arows)

To take it out of default A- mode ad assign and dedicated address, press the "master up" arrow button which is just to the right of the LED display to set it to A1, A2, A3, etc. (do NOT press the the FADE arrow buttons directly below the LED display, as you will be scrolling through Setup options again)

Take the GRX out of setup mode by pressing the same combination you used to put it into setup mode.

Step Three: Initialize Communication between the GRX and the Wallstation(s)
Now, go to the NT-RX and put it into "talk" mode by pressing the scene 1 ad scene 4 buttons simultaneously for 3-4 seconds.

When it is in "Talk" mode, press the scene 1 button on the GRX (make sure the GRX is NOT in setup mode before you start this process)
Pressing the Scene 1 button tells the GRX to "Listen" to the Wallstation(s) that are in "Talk" mode at that time.

Take the NT-GRX-4S out of "Talk" mode using the same button press combination you used to put it into "Talk" mode.

Setting the scenes for the Wallstation to control
If dipswitches 5 and 6 on the NT-GRX-4S are both up, then your NT-GRX-4S will mimic the front panel buttons on the GRX and they will both control Scenes 1-4 that you have programmed into the GRX.

(If you have more scenes programmed in the GRX, and you would like the NT-GRX-4S to control Scenes 5-8, 9-12, or 13-16 instead of 1-4, then you can adjust the dipswitch settings according to the chart at the top of page 5 of the Grafik Eye Wallstation Installation Guide.

You are done.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Everything worked except the 3106 needed to stay at A-, not A1.

I even reprogrammed my MX700 to work now.

Now onto macros!

I'm glad it worked out for you.

About the A- vs. A1 setting, I was under the impression that we always had to address every GRX with a unique A(*) address when using any accessory controls.

As they say, "if it ain't broke..."

Lutron Tech assures me that the Grafik RA control units are identical to the 3500 series Grafik Eye control units, except with a RF receiver. They even retain IR receiver and are programmable through the GRX-PRG module.

RA-GRX-6... is the equivalent of the GRX-IA-6... (a.k.a. GRX-3506...). MSRP is about $1250, not too much more than the 3506.

There is an interface between RadioRA and existing Grafik Eye - RA-GRXI-.. - that may accomplish the same thing. Anyone used one?

You only need to address a GE if more than one is in the system. If there is but one GE you do not need to assign it a number to address an accessary control.

I have used the GE Radio Ra Interface. Once upon a time it was the only way to add a GE to a Radio Ra system. Moreover, each GE, despite the fact that it can control up to 6 loads is considered one device on a Radio Ra system. Considering that you can only have 32 dimmers on a Radio Ra system this can be a convenient back door to controlling more loads then one might think. I just cannot understand what you wish to accomplish with the RA-GRXI.

I would never connect a motor to a GE. Inductive loads and triacs do not mix. You could use the GE to throw the coil on a relay which controls the shade/drape motor. Or you could use the accessary relay boxes like the GRX-AV.

Alan

I just cannot understand what you wish to accomplish with the RA-GRXI. The GE is behind the seating. I can install an IR pickup like GRX-CIR in front of the seating for use with the universal remote. Or I can introduce RadioRA to accomplish the same thing using an RF remote. RadioRA also lets me add some of the features of a whole-home system like drive-up activation.

Unfortunately, it looks like the RA-GRXI wants to occupy a box in the living space rather than in the attic with the rest of the GE accessory controls - 104°F max temp. The RA-GRX-n doesn't have that problem. Can you confirm that the RA-GRX-n is otherwise equivalent to (GRX-IA + RA-GRXI)?

Hi All!

I have a 3106 (GRX-MR-6) and a GRX-rs232 that I am trying to send some rs232 commands from my laptop. I see LED1 on the GRX-232 is blinking and not solid. Might this mean I don't have sufficient power? I don't have a mulit-meter handy.

EDIT: I addressed the unit with address A1 and now when I change scenes on the GE I see the result in Hyper Terminal. I can not yet figure out what format to send commands from Hyper Terminal. Any advice?

EDIT2: I had flow control set to Hardware. Once I turned this off I was able to control the GE from Hyper Term.

Right. The Lutron RS-232 cable that comes with the accessories does wire DTR/CTS, but the unit never uses them. If your port does it will wait forever.

I'm having a devil of a time finding a masonry box locally - lowes, home depot, menards, nobody seems to have one anywhere near as deep as what is recommended in the thread (3.5"). Can anyone recommend an online retailer as I haven't found a hit online either....

I had the same trouble as you. My suggestion is to look up a local Electrical supplier such as Grainger. I found a nice 4gang heavy duty metal (very deep) box for 22$ and talked him down to 15$. Still expensive, but was the best I could do. If you can't find anyone local, I would be happy to stop by that shop and pick one up for you. Just email me. stima at aol.com

The first hit (http://www.foxelectricsupply.com) googling 'Raco masonry box' found the Raco 698.

I got mine at a local electrical supply house.

Call your local electrical supply house to see if they carry RACO 3.5" deep masonry boxes, and also to see if they allow walk-in cash sales at the counter.

Some places are trade only, so double check if they allow walk-in cash sales.

Thanks for the info guys. Stima, thanks for the offer. DMF, no idea how I missed that when I googled, guess I checked hits 2 through 999 which had nothing to do with a masonry box! :-) Cinemascope and all, I called a few supply houses and finally gave up and went with googled hit number one. Now I can move on to more pressing duties (like figuring out how to integrate this grafik eye with my htpc's)! :-)

dell4200gambler... not sure if you are using a frontend on your HTPC yet but Dean from Charmed Quark has a driver for the GE rs232 controller written that works quite well.

emillika, tell me more. I saw a post early on in this thread about controlling the GE with an HTPC but haven't found any detailed info yet (to busy with construction of the HT at the moment I guess). I assume at a minimum the rs-232 controller is required. Some pricey specialized software on top of that as well? A bear to configure and maintain? Thanks in advance!

GRX-RS232 doesn't do much except change the zone dimmer levels. You need GRX-PRG for PC control. Be prepared to spend the cost of a laptop for it.

Finally received my masonry box and got it mounted, now I'm trying to settle on a GE. Can someone give me a quick breakdown on what the 3504 gives me over the 3104? Do I get PC control with this one or would it still require the GRX-PRG? Thanks in advance.

Taken from page 1 of this thread...

The 3500 series is programmable with 1% resolution in dimming steps, vs. @6-7% steps on the 2400 and 3100 series.

The same advanced IR control as the 3100 series, except the raise and lower have more steps in the resolution.

The 3500 series adds the capability of using the RS-232 interfaces which adds real time feedback to a control system as well as direct communication dimming w/out establishing presets. (ie: directly dimming one load only to modify an existing scene)

As DMF learned, the GRX-232 (and presumably the GRX-PRG) will also work with the 3100 series through the MUX link, but it only duplicates the IR features.

You will still need a GRX-232 or a GRX-PRG to control ANY Grafik Eye from your PC.
The 3500 series just has more control.

Haven't tried the -PRG with a 3100, but since the 3100 only understands the command set of the -RS232, there's really not much point. ;)

As I've said before here, I don't see that the -RS232 has much use in a home environment. It doesn't allow you to 'program' the GE as you might understand it (and Lutron's Liaison s/w doesn't work with it).

So leaving out the -RS232, here's the equation: If you don't plan on programming the GE, then a 3100 is fine. If you do, then a 3500 is required (for about an extra $100 street), but you will also have to spend about the same again for a -PRG to go with it.

Good day,

I currently am setting up the Grafik Eye 3100 MR 4-zone controller with the accessory dimmer NT-GRX-1S. The Grafix Eye seems to work fine, but when I attach the accessory dimmer, it is not working. I had my electrician set it up, but it seems that he is confused with the whole thing.

Basically, when I press the accessory button, it saves the current configuration under Scene 1. It doesn't load or shut off Scene 1, which is wierd. I read this thread and it seems that no one else has run into this problem. Also, although this home is rather new, I can't rewire it, so I have to use something that works with retrofit wiring. Where the accessory dimmer is installed, there are 3 wires, Black, White, Red, yet the accessory dimmer only has Black and Blue.

Can someone offer any guidance on what we may be doing wrong? I looked at the instructions that came with the unit and the instructions I was able to download from Lutron, and both are different, yet confusing. They seem to show the accessory dimmer connecting to a 2 way switch in both instances and also they show it using the SSA connection on the actual dimmer.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Where the accessory dimmer is installed, there are 3 wires, Black, White, Red, yet the accessory dimmer only has Black and Blue.

Can someone offer any guidance on what we may be doing wrong? I looked at the instructions that came with the unit and the instructions I was able to download from Lutron, and both are different, yet confusing.

Follow these instructions, and remember the series of your GRX.
GRX-3100 would be the same as a GRX-MR.

This device was INTENDED to be used in retrofits in the instance where a secondary location was wired for 3-way control to traditional switches.

This is supposed to work for exatly what you have...

As far as the multiple instructions, you may have seen the other diagram for the 4000 series, which has dedicated SSA in and out terminals so you do not have to tie to the hot lead.

Use the diagram at the top of page 3 of this document.
http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/ntgrx-1s.pdf


They seem to show the accessory dimmer connecting to a 2 way switch in both instances and also they show it using the SSA connection on the actual dimmer.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
What?? I don't know what the "2-way switch" reference is about...

The fact that is does SOMETHING would lead me to believe that it is hooked up ciorrectly, but PLEASE RE-CHECK THE WIRING.

If there is a wiring problem, I would bet that you are somehow mis-using the carrier for the 3-way circuit that was already wired between your boxes.

Turn off the power to the circuit and do some continuity testing to verify that the wires you are using are what you think they are.

Even though I would like you and/or the electrician to double check your wiring anyway, it sounds like the GRX may be in programming mode while you are trying to operate it.

Good day Cinemascipe,

Thanks for the tip. As you suggested I looked at the .pdf link that you sent, checked my wiring and changed the blue wire to tie into the SSA connection. Now everything works fine. Part of the problem is that my electrician doesn't seem to be the sharpest pencil in the pack, and couldn't understand the instructions at all.

Again, thanks for your help!

You are welcome, that is why I post here.

Just curious, but what WAS it conected to??

This is a wonderful thread....however, we plan to install the above lighting control system. Is there a similar thread on AVS which provides great info on RadioRA?

Phil

[redacted]

There have been some good threads on Radio Ra in the automation forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=36

Try some searches for Lutron to see them, and post any additional Ra questions there...
A lot of the people who created and contributed to this thread watch that section as well.

I have a wiring question...

Due to local code requirements, I am going to have to add a power booster interface (NGRX-PB) to my Grafik Eye. Regardless of actual load, my city will only allow eight fixtures on a 15 amp circuit or ten fixtures on a 20 amp circuit. Every outlet, light socket, recessed light can, etc. counts as a fixture. Since I will have nine recessed lights cans and 4 sconces on my Grafik Eye, this puts me over the 10 fixture limit so I am going to put one of the zones on a power booster.

I'm using the two-box wiring method. I've used the original diagram posted by V10EATR (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=500436) and made some modifications to his drawing to show how I plan to wire the power interface. Can someone who has done this before verify that my drawing looks correct?

Looks good to me.

I just discovered that the recessed can housings I purchased for my new room have electronic transformers in them. Is it true that I will need an ELVI to connect them to my Grafik Eye 3106? If so, do I need a separate ELVI for each zone that is connected to these types of lights?

Thanks for any help.

[Edit] Nevermind. I called the Lutron hotline (which, I was very impressed with BTW - got a very nice and helpful person at midnight no less) and they told me I probably will need the ELVI. Unfortunately, that is probably more expensive than buying new cans so I may just need to switch them out.

Do any of you people that have the standard 4" type cans have problems with the lights buzzing or humming when you dim them?

The standard 4" cans that are easiest to integrate with GrafikEyes are line voltage models rated for use with 120VAC PAR20 or PAR16 50W reflectorized halogen lights... no transformers needed and no special dimmers or modules are needed...

Also, 120VAC halogens are a great choice because they keep a consistent color when dimmed, vs. incandescent lighting which will appear more and more yellowish color the more they are dimmed. Color temperature of the lighting at it's dimmed levels is very important when watching a high performance projection system.

This occurs because the filament in an incandescent bulb does not have enough time to fully illuminate when the bulb is turned off hundreds of times per second by the dimmer.

Does anyone know how the light output of a 4" PAR20 halogen compares to that of the MR16 halogens?

Seven MR16 50 watters lit up my last room like a football stadium, but I've seen posts that imply the 4" cans don't do as good of a job...

Do any of you people that have the standard 4" type cans have problems with the lights buzzing or humming when you dim them?

I have 6- 130v bulbs in my cans and do not have any problems with buzzing. I believe the 130V bulbs have a thicker filament in them. On the other hand, the bulbs I have in my sconces can be moody at times. These are 60W Phillips bulbs that have the "natural light". I've had more sucess with them than then GE version. When I buy bulbs I shake them and listen to the filament. If it jingles it will hum when dimmed.

PS Yes, that was me with my ear to the bulbs in the lighting section of HT :D

Good to hear, Tweak. Thanks.

What type of bulb are you using in the cans? Par 20, Par 30, what?

Hopefully I won't get flamed for asking, but I can't find this in the forums...

Anyone got any pictures of the Grafilk Eye control panel in the color selection you can choose from? The Lutron web site only lists them.

I'm putting in a six zone system, and I'm thinking about black casing. Anyone have this in their set up?

Cheers

SY

You could go to your Lutron Distributor and ask for one of the Lutron Catalogs. The catalog will have all of the colors displayed and listed; and the colors are pretty close to the real thing.

I think it's called "Lutron - Residential Lighting Controls Catalog". It's about 1/2" - 3/4" thick.

HTH

Oh, you may even be able to get Lutron to send one out to you. Lutron's pricing may be a bit high, but I have never, personally, known them to fall down in the customer service area.

anyone know where I can get a real good deal on a 3104 grafik eye? best price ive gotten so far is about $541.00

I am almost ready to pull the pin and go with a Grafik Eye system for my home theater. It seems to be the most reliable way to do these sorts of things. However I am tempted to go for more than just a 4-zone for the theater itself. Since my home theater is actually a portion of the basement and has no distinct doorway I am thinking of running all of the open living areas of the basement (the family/theater area, the fireplace room area and the stairway landing area) from a Grafik Eye system. But this will probably require more than 6 zones...

Can I use two 4-zone Grafik Eye systems, one for the theater area, and one for the rest of the basement... and link them together so some scenes modify all 8 zones instead of just the 4 from that controller? I would like to put a SeeTouch upstairs at the top of the stairs so I can turn the basement lights on to a certain scene before walking down the steps. So maybe my exact quesion is this ---- what are the limitations of having two 4-zone GE systems + 1 SeeTouch all linked together?

what youre asking seems possible, the grafik eye system is pretty expandable I would check with lutron before purchasing anything, some members here seem to be pretty experienced also, I will be putting my order in for a 4 zone system tomorrow, my theater is a dedicated room so no need for more than that, low voltage 2 button backlit switch at the top of the stairs and a lutron 4 scene remote as a backup to my nevo sl touch screen remote

I am almost ready to pull the pin and go with a Grafik Eye system for my home theater. It seems to be the most reliable way to do these sorts of things. However I am tempted to go for more than just a 4-zone for the theater itself. Since my home theater is actually a portion of the basement and has no distinct doorway I am thinking of running all of the open living areas of the basement (the family/theater area, the fireplace room area and the stairway landing area) from a Grafik Eye system. But this will probably require more than 6 zones...

Can I use two 4-zone Grafik Eye systems, one for the theater area, and one for the rest of the basement... and link them together so some scenes modify all 8 zones instead of just the 4 from that controller? I would like to put a SeeTouch upstairs at the top of the stairs so I can turn the basement lights on to a certain scene before walking down the steps. So maybe my exact quesion is this ---- what are the limitations of having two 4-zone GE systems + 1 SeeTouch all linked together?

You can tell each GE to "listen" to the seetouch panel. That panel should probably be for scenes 5-8 (or 9-12, etc.), and that grouping is set via a dip-switch. You can have one GE listen to the other as well. The problem is it will always listen to it and since you'll be controlling it from one GE, it will push scenes 1-4, and possibly 5-8 (via a remote).

What might be better is to get two seetouch panels. Put one at the bottom of the stairs and have all GEs listen to it for scenes 5-8. If you like you can have redundant scenes. When you go down stairs you can turn them all off, and you can also have regular scenes for the rest of the room trigger some kind of entrance scene for your HT. Put another in yout HT and have only your outer-room GE listen to it. By the way, when you wire these you daisy chain them all together, so you can figure out your combinations later.

Make sense?

I have a similar set-up, but both of my seetouch panels are at the bottom of the stair. One ST controls scenes 1-4 of the outer rooms, and the other controls scenes 5-8 in the HT. Since the kids (ages 1-3) like to go down and hit the buttons, I have it set up so the HT goes into ambience mode for the buttons they like.

anyone know where I can get a real good deal on a 3104 grafik eye? best price ive gotten so far is about $541.00
That is actually a KILLER deal... You do know that they retail at $850, right??

yes I do and I placed my order for the 3104 yesterday with my lutron dealer and actually got it for $ 525.00 also placed and order for 8 scene remote and lvoltage 2 button backlit remote... and masonary box...total $ 812.00..... sweett!!!!

Well, I hate to say it, but that's almost $300 for two remotes and a $15 box. (Or was it one remote and a wallstation?) Or are you in one of those 8% sales tax states?

Best I've seen on the 3104 is $500, though, so you did well there.
;)

Well, I hate to say it, but that's almost $300 for two remotes and a $15 box. (Or was it one remote and a wallstation?) Or are you in one of those 8% sales tax states?

Best I've seen on the 3104 is $500, though, so you did well there.
;)


It was for one 8 scene remote and one wallstation, doesnt seem to be any big discount on the remotes, I could have saved on a 4 scene remote but my wife said I should get the 8 scene remote, heres the breakdown

grafik eye 3104 4 zone $525.00
masonary box $4.30
2 button seetouch wallstation $158.00
8 scene remote $125.00

just picked everything up today and a friend of mine is an electrician and is going to wire it up for me this weeknend, best part is hes going to do it for FREEEEE!!!! :D

Before you get too happy, find cable that will connect the wallstation to the GE. You want the -346S. See attached.

my electrician says he has this cable on his truck

well my electrician has just shown up so we are starting the installation of the 3104 and the seetouch 2 button pad, since the wiring for one one of the zones is seperate from the rest that will have to be pulled into the grafik eye, there will be some rewiring involved to get it there

well the install of the grafik eye 3104 & 2 button touchpad is complete and my electrcian did a great job, this was his first grafik eye that he had installed, the system works great and I will experiment with some programming when I get some free time, for now im just using the default scene settings, I will also post some pics, thanks for all who provided helpful tips and gotchas to watch out for

here are some pics from the install of the grafikeye 3104 which was completed yesterday (saturday) including the old x-10 lightswitches, there was a lot more to the installation than what the pics show but you get the idea...install was about 6 hours and was a free install, he would just like to sit in the berklines and watch a movie.... :D

(I hope it's ok to post here)

Due to a mistake on my electrician's part (I had ordered two 3506), I ended up with 2 Lutron Grafik eyes model 3106, that I cannot use in my system. Can't return without losing too much money (Lutron return policies on open boxes are pretty painful).

Before putting them for sale on eBay, I thought that someone here might be interested. If you live in the Seattle area and are looking for one or two 3106 (perfectly working, with all the manuals), please send me a PM

Ygpm

Rob, why can't you use them? Do you have a GRX-PRG?

(And no, you shouldn't post for-sale offers here.)

Yep, I have a GRX-PRG, and will integrate the 2 3506 as part of my home automation (mostly based on Insteon products, with some help from the Apex Destiny 6100 alarm system)... I just have, oh, roughly half a million lines of code to write to make it all work :-)

Apologies for the abuse...

Could someone tell me if I can use a 3506 bought in the US in an installation in the UK?

Not a U.S-model 3506. You have 220V mains, right? With 50Hz AC? We use 110V 60Hz. And I think UK requires an integral box so that the hots aren't exposed.

There is a code that gets appended to the full model number that specifies a UK version. Check the Lutron web site.

Anyone know where I can get the standard 3506 faceplate with the white/translucent front? I think the model number would be GRX-3105-T-WH.

Just looking for an on-line dealer that might be able to help.

You want the faceplate or the whole unit?

Just the faceplate.

Contact Lutron directly. Be prepared to bend over.

Contact Lutron directly. Be prepared to bend over.

Is the price that bad? I too would like to change mine.

Movieguy,
I will have a white on white 3106 plate in a couple of weeks. I end up with extras after the engraving is done. If you can wait that long?

BillW - you haev a PM. Thanks.

You should be able to get a cover in any color for under $100 shipped (way under in many cases)
I have a few colors in stock.

Looking for an All-Black plate, if someone knows where to get one.

Hello...

I am in the process of completing my basement and am planning on making one room a home theater. I have already purchased several RadioRa switches for this installation along with several master controls. (I don't have the part listing with me, otherwise I would include them.) The lights in the theater portion of the room are being configured as 7 zones, something like this:

| ----------- |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| ----------- |

What I am wondering is if I can add a Grafik Eye to this configuration and, if so, what model should I get? (What advantages would I get by doing this?)

There will also be 3 additional zones off to the right side (this would be the bottom of the above diagram) that would control lights in a side sitting area and over a bar. Could these also be incorporated into the GE? (I have also purchased some Sivoia switches for the window covers too.)

Thanks!

The above diagram in my post did not format correctly....

So let me try an attachment instead.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one too. I have satin nickel now, but the other 4' wallplates are black.

Rick, I went through various wallplates on the wallstations and black definitely looked best. I tried white, chrome, silver, and some poor-fitting satin nickel. (It's darn difficult to find a decent 2- or 3-gang Deco plate in satin nickel. I won't pay special order prices for Claro.) I'll send you pics one of these days. The back-lighting really looks slick on black wallstations.

The metal finishes do look great but I would caution that if you expect to order a metal finish for the main unit the metal cover may act as heat sinks and be very hot to the touch--as in 110-120F. I have never ordered a metal finish for a Grafik Eye but I have for many a Vario. And those Varios were all very hot to the touch. Forgot to report back on my results. The metal finish is a skin over a plastic core. The metal doesn't come into direct contact with the body of the GE. Mine runs nice and cool.

I had a brushed chrome cover on a 6 zone GRX in my old office... No heat.

I am finishing the basement and ran all the wires for the Grafik eye sytem and additional control panels. When I had a HT company, (they were supposed to be VERY familiar with these systems), rough in the power lines for the 2 GRX-3106 units, they had changed the lines I had already run for the mux lines. They were run in a daisy chain format and they changed it all to homeruns - with resistance from me but hey - they are the professionals right...

They came back after all the sheetrock was hung and walls were painted, to hook everything up. They informed me that they were not sure how to hook up the 3 NTGRX-4B controlers and a 2-button (forget the #). These are the same installers that originally were in the house. They basically left the accessory controls unhooked and told me that I would need to figure out how to hook them up or they could research it and come back (for more $$ of course) and hook them up. :mad:

With what I am reading, I was correct to run them daisy chain and am I now $#@%$#?? :eek:

Anyone have any suggestions?

Tell the contractor he will have to run the wires correctly so the system works properly or you will withhold final payment. If it's cheaper (which I doubt) you could change the system to the Grafik Eye RadioRa system. Look at the seeTouch wallstations if you do.

I have just finished the walls with Santos Mahogany and Bubinga wood. I really do not want to cut into the walls at this point and there is really no way to run lines in the walls without cutting into the walls. It has taken me a year to get all the wood on the walls and I am finally to the point where I am putting Poly on the walls.....

Is there anyway to hook up the controllers with the current homeruns?

Yes. Just tie all the end-run cables together. This is electrically and topologically the same as daisy-chaining.

You didn't say where they were homerun to, so I don't know how convenient this is going to be. If you used Lutron cable, some of the wire gauges are pretty small, so you will need a really good small-wire stripper, and maybe a soldering iron.

I agree that you should withhold final payment from the installer until he figures it out himself. If he thinks he needs to open the walls, give him a quote on how much it will cost, noting that of course he will be responsible for that cost. Don't tell him how to fix it, just let him sweat. Maybe it will teach him not to lie to his customers.

If you've already paid him, send a bill for the cost of opening the walls to re-wire and threaten suit (small claims isn't expensive) unless he makes it right.

You're being screwed here. It's time to change from catcher to pitcher.

If you intend to do this yourself, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS! Multiple MUX accessory power supplies are well covered.

T&M contracts can be hard to control. From your installers, ask for an accounting *now* of chargable hours-to-date, broken down by task. Once you get it, you can start disputing charges. Tell them to take out any hours (and materials) spent re-wiring (unless you used the wrong cable to begin with). Also tell them that you won't accept a charge for them learning how to hook up the system since they represented to you that they already knew how. Put it in writing.

And let's move this out of the sticky thread, shall we?

Is this how everyone ran the CAT5 wire to the box?

http://pics.loosechangerocks.net/IMG_0216_1.JPG


I couldn't find a rough-in picture like this anywhere in this thread..... I have a temporary switch in place to run some lights in the room.

Thanks!

Is this how everyone ran the CAT5 wire to the box?

http://pics.loosechangerocks.net/IMG_0216_1.JPG


I couldn't find a rough-in picture like this anywhere in this thread..... I have a temporary switch in place to run some lights in the room.

Thanks!
That's the right way if you are using an emitter under the faceplate...
If you have access to Elan, their IRE-4 emitter comes without the case, otherwise buy a Xantech emitter and carefully remove the shell and secure it on the unit behind the hole in the plate as described early in this thread.

BTW, nice work on "buttering" the box with acoustical sealant. Be sure to fill in the gap around the box nice and tight before sliding that GRX into the box for the final install.

That's the right way if you are using an emitter under the faceplate...
If you have access to Elan, their IRE-4 emitter comes without the case, otherwise buy a Xantech emitter and carefully remove the shell and secure it on the unit behind the hole in the plate as described early in this thread.

BTW, nice work on "buttering" the box with acoustical sealant. Be sure to fill in the gap around the box nice and tight before sliding that GRX into the box for the final install.

Thanks! I made sure I lathered the penetrations really good. I have 16 tubes of USG Acoustical Sealant being delivered this week to seal all the joints, outlet and switch boxes, etc.

Will the faceplate cover the wire? I don't know how much overhang there is....

I already bought the Xantech 291 kit. I'll dig into the "removing the shell" stuff when the time comes. Thanks again for the answer!

Thanks! I made sure I lathered the penetrations really good. I have 16 tubes of USG Acoustical Sealant being delivered this week to seal all the joints, outlet and switch boxes, etc.

Will the faceplate cover the wire? I don't know how much overhang there is....
Not much... Keep it as tight as possible to the side of the GRX before you snap the faceplate on.

I already bought the Xantech 291 kit. I'll dig into the "removing the shell" stuff when the time comes. Thanks again for the answer!
I totally forgot about the Xantech 282x.
It is the same as the 282m, except no outer case...

Hey, we passed 15K views here on the old Grafik Eye thread!!

I sure hope that the banner advertisers who sell Lutron and have benefitted from the extra business remember to take care of those of us who built this thing.

Dimmers.net?? if you are out there... my PM is in my profile and if you would like to throw me a freebie, I have a perfect spot for a GRX-3506T-MN

I could use a Sivoia motor controller and a GRX-CIR-BR (infrared pickup in brown).

PM Rick for my mailing address. ;)


Attached are some bad pics of the SeeTouch wallstations with the backlights showing for those that wanted to see how it looks. These pics were hard to get with a digital camera. In low light the color goes way off. The first is with a quick flash on a slow exposure so the color is close to correct. The white thing is a fan controller. The second used no flash so is way too yellow. The lettering actually looks milky white. You can see, though, that it is quite visible in a darkened room.

The third pic is shot like the first but didn't pick up the backlighting all that well. I include it to show how the controls disappear with black on black. Left to right are two Diva dimmers and a SG-4SI-BL-EGN SeeTouch wallstation.

(Installing that three-gang box was a bear! The old box was two-gang and the door moulding is somewhat wider than the original so the box had to move away from the stud. It is sitting about centered in a 10" stud cavity, so had to be mounted on a hanger. I had to use gangable metal boxes because plastic boxes don't work with a hanger. Since it's an outside wall I pulled 3/4" flex conduit to make any future re-wiring easier. Then I found out that no threaded conduit connector will clear the wallstation body! :mad: And of course the sheetrock had to be cut out and rebuilt. Just got finished with the final paint touch-up. Whew! :cool: )

What is the white keypad?? Old ceiling fan speed controller??

If you want to replace it, I know where you can get some nice Maetro controls with a fan speed control and a dimmer on a single decora insert...

http://www.lutron.com/maestro/images/MaestroFan-sm.jpg

...and it comes in Black.

http://www.lutron.com/maestro/maestrofan.asp?s=17000&t=17200

That's a new fan controller, less than 8 months old. The fan ships with an RF receiver, but no remote, just the wall controller.

No light, so Maestro MA-FQ4M ($75 list) or Diva DV-FSQF ($38). Replacing the controller would be a nice touch. Thanks for the pointer.

That's a new fan controller, less than 8 months old. The fan ships with an RF receiver, but no remote, just the wall controller.

No light, so Maestro MA-FQ4M ($75 list) or Diva DV-FSQF ($38). Replacing the controller would be a nice touch. Thanks for the pointer.

Fans are always tough... Even though it's not appropriate for your application, I am glad that they are shipping that new Maestro model with fan and light on a single unit.

The integrated light controls on the OE fan switches in retros required pulling out the boxes to add a larger box, which makes them a little harder than they are worth.

Unofficially of course....can I safely put 13x65watts=845 watts on a single Grafik Eye zone? I'm 45 watts over. Will the thing shut down or will I burn my house down?
All other zones are well under their limit, and the 845 watt zone will almost never be run at anything over about 80% intensity.

Flyboy

Unofficially of course....can I safely put 13x65watts=845 watts on a single Grafik Eye zone? I'm 45 watts over. Will the thing shut down or will I burn my house down?
All other zones are well under their limit, and the 845 watt zone will almost never be run at anything over about 80% intensity.

Flyboy
Officially and unofficially... Do not overload any zone on a Grafik Eye, or exceed the maximum overall rating for a Grafik Eye.

Insurance inspectors who come by after a fire or other electrical catastrophe could use this as an excuse to not cover any damages... How about that for a reason to stay within the limits??

If you can step up to a larger unit, or multiple units, to achieve what you need.

If you are not already using the largest single box GRX (6 zone), I would step up and just spread out the loads on additional zones. I am sure that if you take another step back and look again at that lighting plan, there will be additional seperations that make sense to create additional scenes.

If you still really want all 13 fixtures to act as one, nobody is saying that you couldn't just split them on two zones and then program the zones to track identically (level and fade time) to the scene commands...

If you are already at six zones and do not really want to install a second unit for more zone capacity, consider using the Power Booster (NGRX-PB) See Post 20 on Page 1 of this thread for more info and information links.

Thirteen fixtures is a LOT to have on one zone... I rarely have that many fixtures on one zone of a whole house lighting job using HomeWorks panels.

Officially and unofficially...


I hear what your saying and yes it makes a lot of sense. Actually the larger unit has already come into play (or thoughts). Due to either poor planing or the fact that I'm temporarily hooking everything up to make sure I like what I see before I can't change it, I've come to realize that I would really like/ need a 6 zone system rather than the 4 zone I just bought.
Unfortunately, the company I bought it from will not let you return a Grafik eye, even for a larger unit, if its ever been turned on. On the other hand, using a 6 zone system would still not let me split the 13 light zone since I added lights and need 6 zones.
I guess buying another 4 zone would let me add two zones and split the 13 zone...leaving one zone unused (yes I know about the 25watt min load).
This leads to another question that I haven't researched or seriously consider...until now; could I use that remaining zone to run electric window shades? Do they require a zone or are they PELV only?

Attached is 13 cans on one zone, it is the rec room end of my "great room" and yes the theater end is much more tame. ...oh and they currently have 60 watt bulbs as to NOT over load the zone.

Cheers,
Flyboy

If you get a newer GE, they added a new load type for their Sivoia shades, so you can control them directly from a zone. (I believe you can also control their other shade line, too.) Lutron shades are pricey, so be sure you want to go that way before you make it a requirement.

FYI,
A new GE is out of my budget right now. After having a look, Sivoia shades will never be in my budget! I bought a GE power booster to fix my wattage issue and put some lites that would most likely only be used while entertaining on manual dimmers where the wiring can be accessed for a future GE upgrade.
On another note, I bought way to much PELV wire for my Seetouch switches. Would it be worth while to run this wire to my basement windows and sliding glass door for future non-Sivoia shades?

Flyboy

How much is "way too much" PELV? I cant decide if I will need or want a wall station and if I do I haven't bought any PELV. If you have a lot I might buy some from you.


Scott

(in El Dorado, BTW)

How much is "way too much" PELV? I cant decide if I will need or want a wall station and if I do I haven't bought any PELV. If you have a lot I might buy some from you.


Scott

(in El Dorado, BTW)

About 175' too much. I was originally going to hide my GE, run three wall switches and install the Silvola shades. In the end I decided not to hide the GE, only run two wall switches, and decided the the Lutron shades were way too expensive.
If the wire is useful for "other" motorized shades I'll probably use another 50' of it.
Anyhow, one way or another I'm going to have an extra 100' plus....and an extra See Touch switch. If your interested PM me. I'll unload it cheap....though I wonder what's more expensive, gas or shipping! :eek:

Flyboy

flyboy you have a pm.

Zone control question: Is there any way to raise and lower a single zone without effecting the others attached to the same 3100 series GRX?

I finally finished all of the drywall in the basement and the HT completed but I'm finding I cannot do exactly what I want with the unit...which is individual control of the HT zone without the remote (MX-3000) raising or lowering the rest of the basement.

Can it be done or do I need to step up to a 3500 series? And does anyone have one of those cheap. :D

Please be clear on what you want. Do you want to be able to change a single zone from the remote? If that's the question, then afaik, no you can't. A 3500 isn't different from a 3100 in that regard.

Why is it that you want to change a single zone? Can't you just program several scenes with that zone at different levels? Of course, you can always change the zone at the GE front panel.

With a 3500 (and a GRX-PRG and a PC with the Liaison software) there is a sneaky way to do what you want. Create a scene with all zones that you don't want to change set as UA (unaffected). When you select that scene from the remote, they will stay unchanged. Then using the scene raise/lower commands, only the zone that is not set to UA will change.

Technically he could raise and lower the individual zones with a GRX-3500, but it would require more than a change to the 3500...

He would need an MRF-250 or 300 base, connected to a Xantech IRS-232A which would need to be programmed to output the RS-232 strings into the GRX-232 or a GRX-PRG to raise and lower the individual zones.

It's kind of a mess, but it is possible.

I would just ditch the MX-3000 and pick up an RTI T3 with the RP-6 base that can output RS-232 directly.

Okay, so DMF smacked me back to reality and cinemascope scared the hell outta me!

About 3/4 of the way into this, I realized that the 3106 wasn't really gonna fit my needs, but since everything was wired and a lot of rock had been hung I decided to go ahead with it. The situation is that I have a dedicated HT as well as a lounge/bar area in the basement. The GRX controls lighting for the entire setup and I'd hoped to be able to adjust the lights as needed within the theater without effecting the bar lights.

I see DMF's logic in just setting up a bunch of scenes that would have the main lights at a fixed point and provide gradients to the HT. My ignorance was that I wasn't thinking through the raise/lower functionality a remote would provide. I had hoped that when you set the lights in a scene, you could lock them in as required but adjust ones that were not locked.

II do have an MRF-300 and it sounds like the 3500 could *almost* do what I'm after, but it's just not worth the pain and expense. I really appreciate DMF and cinemascope's responses, though. Thanks guys!

-chad

You can raise or loser individual zones with Lutron's GRX-IRI infrared interface.

Attach infrared lead from the MRF-250/300 to the GRX-IRI. No RS232 codes are used with this unit.

Lutron has infrared codes to access all the scenes and zones from your programmable remote then.

Here's an excerpt from the installation and operation instructions:

Description
The GRX-IRI Infrared Interface allows auxiliary systems
equipped with an IR emitter to control a GRAFIK Eye
system. Up to 8 GRAFIK Eye Control Units can be
Assigned to listen to the GRX-IRI.
Features
The GRX-IRI allows auxiliary systems to access basic
functions using standard Lutron IR codes. These functions
include:
• Selection of 16 Scenes plus Off on the Assigned group of
GRAFIK Eye Control Units.
• Temporary Master Raise or Lower of all zones on the
Assigned group of GRAFIK Eye Control Units.
The Assigned group of GRAFIK Eye Control Units is set
using address (DIP) switches 1 to 8 on the GRX-IRI.

For ultimate flexibility, the advanced set of Lutron PRO IR
codes can be used. These allow individual control of any
GRAFIK Eye Control Unit or Zone within the system:
• Selection of 16 Scenes plus Off on any GRAFIK Eye Control
Unit in the system (Example: Select Scene 1 on GRAFIK
Eye Control Unit 2).
• Temporary Master Raise or Lower of all zones on any
GRAFIK Eye Control Unit in the system.
• Raise or Lower any zone on any GRAFIK Eye Control Unit
in the system.
• Save the current settings as a scene on a GRAFIK Eye
Control Unit (only availabe with GRAFIK Eye 3500 or 4500
Series Control Units).

Good info. That got me thinking about whether the Grafik Eye itself recognizes the PRO IR commands. A call to Lutron Tech Support pointed me at this document (http://lutron.com/applicationnotes/grx/Advanced_Lutron_IR.pdf) that says they don't. The -IRI (and a wallstation like the SG-PRO) translates the PRO codes into data bus instructions much like the GRX-PRG uses.

Anyone have a price on the GRX-IRI and SG-PRO? I forgot to ask.

Just got my 3104-CE (230V version) and have a couple of questions:-


a) For accessory keypads such as the seetouch, can I use cat 5 to connect back to the main unit ?


b) For dimming low voltage halogens, it would appear that:-

1) If I use a "traditional" transformer, then it's an MLV load that I can dim directly. I may have some problem with the transformer/light humming or singing, but it's a matter of try it and see.


2) If I use an electronic transformer, then I need the ELV module ??? Correct ?, or does the ELV module only serve to reduce/eliminate noise ???




What type of halogens/transformer combonation have most people gone with ? and did you use the ELV module ?

Thanks

a) Not legally here in the US. Any wiring - low voltage or otherwise - that enters a high (120V for us) voltage box must have a jacket with a breakdown voltage rating of 600V. Most cat5 doesn't have a high breakdown jacket It has been pointed out that standard black electrician's tape has a 600V rating, so if you wrap it up and clamp it like you should with any cable entering a box, and keep it separate from the power cables, you can do it. (Kiwi law may be different, though.) Check that standard cat5 has enough ampacity to handle the 12V power. Lutron uses 18 AWG for their power wires. Also be sure that your cat5 cable is rated for in-wall use (plenum rating is not needed).

b) ELV requires a different load setting on the GE but no separate module. Most people use MLV. I've never had a transformer problem driving MR16 (12V) lamps.

Anyone have a price on the GRX-IRI and SG-PRO? I forgot to ask.

I paid about $75 for my GRX-IRI. A bargain compared to other ways to remotely control a GrafikEye.

b) ELV requires a different load setting on the GE but no separate module. Most people use MLV. I've never had a transformer problem driving MR16 (12V) lamps.


Thanks for the reply. So you run MLV, and have had no problems with the light or transformer buzzing or making a noise when dimmed ?

I went ahead and hooked up an electronic transformer I had and it all seems to work fine, no buzz or hum. Should I set the GE to ELV or MLV ? Both seem to work. What are the pros/cons of each ?


Thanks

I paid about $75 for my GRX-IRI. A bargain compared to other ways to remotely control a GrafikEye.

Steve,
Where did you find teh GRX-IRI?
All I can find is the GRX-CIR for around $290!

Ron

Steve,
Where did you find teh GRX-IRI?
All I can find is the GRX-CIR for around $290!

Ron

I got it at http://www.hankselectric.com/ .

Steve,
Thanks for the response. I got my Grafik Eye stuff from Hank's too. I can't find the GRX-IRI anywhere. I wonder if it has been discontinued?

Ron

Steve,
Thanks for the response. I got my Grafik Eye stuff from Hank's too. I can't find the GRX-IRI anywhere. I wonder if it has been discontinued?

Ron

I had a fair amount of trouble finding a GRX-IRI, too. Hank's didn't have it in stock, but they ordered it for me.

They have it in stock now, for $75. MSRP is reported as $100.

anyone have experience with the LUTRON GRAFIC EYE GRX-MR-4T???

I am looking at getting one for my NEW MEDIA room I am building and wanted to know if anyone has one or has used one. Good device? Easy to program? I am going to have 3-4 zones with halogen (60W bulbs).

Thanks for the responses.

F

Same as any other Grafik Eye. Equivalent to the GRX-3104-T. Where are you? (Put your location in your profile.)

When you say "program", what do you expect to be able to do? Have you read the documents on the Lutron site? Have you read this thread?

Same as any other Grafik Eye. Equivalent to the GRX-3104-T. Where are you? (Put your location in your profile.)

When you say "program", what do you expect to be able to do? Have you read the documents on the Lutron site? Have you read this thread?

Same place as you....ATL....

I have read a portion of the threads here....am very new to the Grafik Eye, but the info here has been useful. As I understand it....basically you set the lighting scenes' you want and save them, correct? We have SEVERAL at our office and the person responsible for the purchase said they can be complex to program the scenes.....from reading here..it seems fairly straight forward.

So I found a great deal on the "GRX-3104-T" and am looking at accessories. My media room is ALMOST complete and I have 3 lighting zones....I want to add blackout shades and an IR remote (or buy a remote that can control this unit).

Have been doing some reading here, lutron, and other sites....but its a lot of information for something I humbly didn't think about until after we started the media room.

Looking for some direction....where do I go for blackout shades and can they be put on Zone 4???

What are your thoughts on MEDIA center remotes. I hit the remote link in the first post, but a lot of the user reviews on the ones I looked at were less than good.

Looking for advice from the guru's.

Thanks!

F

Yes. An office environment is somewhat different, though, since several Grafik Eyes can be made to talk to each other and a single 'scene' may affect eight GEs and 50 zones. With a single GE it's quite simple.

I am pretty siked about getting it! Seems like "a must have" for a media room!

Hey DMF,

I am getting ready to wire....on the 3106.....how do you combine the "commons"....what is the best way to do this in the box? I am pulling 3 zones into this box...I konw that the "hots" go to the numbers.....do I just twist tie the commons to a single lead and run it to the common on the GE?

Frank

You've got it! In electrician speak that is called a pig-tail.

Great...so we hook will be "fading and un-fading" today...Media room is "almost" complete.

Frank

Do the same for the grounds, and if you are using a metal box don't forget to install a ground screw and ground the box.

using a plastic 4 gang re-model...the contractor had already set the 3 gang box before I got the good deal on this unit...hope to install this tomorrow...want me to post pix? GRIN

I would strongly recommend using a metal deep (3.5 inches) masonry box. It is really difficult to get all the wires and the g.e. into a plastic box,especially an old work one (the drywall likes to break where the ears are. The masonry box could just screw into a stud and for romex connectors use Arlington Industries NM-94.

Excerpt from Post #19 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5864440&&#post5864440) of this very thread.
-------------
• Use metal boxes for GE installation, not plastic. There are three reasons:
1. Grafik Eye runs hot; metal dissipates heat better.
2. Triac-based dimmers can pump out a lot of EMI (electro-magnetic interference); a metal box blocks EMI.
3. Non-metallic box cable clamps are internal and most are unused; metallic boxes have no internal clamps to waste volume (especially important in a one-box installation).
---------

The third point isn't as important for a 3104 in a four-gang box as it is with a 3106, but you will find the extra cubes useful nonetheless.

Read the thread. We didn't post this info to amuse ourselves.

Excerpt from Post #19 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5864440&&#post5864440) of this very thread.
-------------
• Use metal boxes for GE installation, not plastic. There are three reasons:
1. Grafik Eye runs hot; metal dissipates heat better.
2. Triac-based dimmers can pump out a lot of EMI (electro-magnetic interference); a metal box blocks EMI.
3. Non-metallic box cable clamps are internal and most are unused; metallic boxes have no internal clamps to waste volume (especially important in a one-box installation).
---------

The third point isn't as important for a 3104 in a four-gang box as it is with a 3106, but you will find the extra cubes useful nonetheless.

Read the thread. We didn't post this info to amuse ourselves.

This will be my last post in this section of the forum....

Wanted to let you guys know that I have read a good bit of what is out here and some of the stuff on the Lutron site. In the midst of building the new media room, I have had several purchase decision to make and have been on a few of the other forums reading and posting. This piece of the media room was a big after-thought

Thanks for the generous replies....I humbly didn't realize this forum was so strict on asking some basic questions. I know that some of the quesitons I asked may have been posted, but I didn't realize there would be any harm in asking again...guess I was wrong.

I have 3 kids, full time job and I fly in the Military....Most of the stuff I need to retain in the old noggin relates to the things that pay the bills or keep me safe. Other things, I research and ask....most people just reply (I usually do as well...guess I am conditioned that way, but that's just me).

Sorry for stepping on toes....

Balz

Can anyone help me with my Grafik Eye 4508 I just bought? It was really cheap and it's making me doubt I got the right product. I thought it would look similar to the 3508 where there are 8 zones in the back to wire to. The front has 8 zones. What should the back of a GRX-4508 look like? There are no zones to wire to. How do I connect/install it?

Ballvice - don't take it personal - DMF is rude to just about everyone. I stopped posting here also because of him. I too was under the impression that users could gain DIY information here in a friendly, un-combative environment. I have received a TON of great advice from a great many participants - newbies as well as seasoned vets, but it only takes one to ruin an otherwise wonderful experience.

This will be my last post in this section of the forum....

Wanted to let you guys know that I have read a good bit of what is out here and some of the stuff on the Lutron site. In the midst of building the new media room, I have had several purchase decision to make and have been on a few of the other forums reading and posting. This piece of the media room was a big after-thought

Thanks for the generous replies....I humbly didn't realize this forum was so strict on asking some basic questions. I know that some of the quesitons I asked may have been posted, but I didn't realize there would be any harm in asking again...guess I was wrong.

I have 3 kids, full time job and I fly in the Military....Most of the stuff I need to retain in the old noggin relates to the things that pay the bills or keep me safe. Other things, I research and ask....most people just reply (I usually do as well...guess I am conditioned that way, but that's just me).

Sorry for stepping on toes....

Balz

Look at the Installation Guide (http://lutron.com/instructions/032-091-GP%20rev%20c.pdf) on the Lutron web site to see what the back looks like.

Unlike the 3000 (and lower) Series, The 4000 (and higher) Series Grafik Eyes do not have integral dimmers in the control unit. (That's how they can fit 8, 16, or 24 zone controls in a single unit.) Dimmers are installed in a separate power panel. The control unit merely tells the panel what dimmer levels to set. Accordingly, the only wiring on the control unit is control wiring. You never connect standard house wiring to it.

Without a power panel and the various gadgets that mount in it, your 4508 is useless. That's why you got it cheap.

Ballvice - don't take it personal - DMF is rude to just about everyone. I stopped posting here also because of him. Rude? Rather, direct. In your case, timps, you started your long pout when I suggested that your questions belonged in a separate thread since they had veered off topic and were inappropriate for a sticky thread. Too bad you've changed your tactic to sniping.

As for suggesting that ballvice read and heed the early posts in this thread, I make no excuse or apology. Once upon a time every newbie DIYer would start a new thread here wanting to know all about Grafik Eyes. As a result, the guys that really knew about GEs, wiring, lighting control, etc. stopped answering the noobs. They just didn't have time to teach the same class every week. The noobs, if they got any advice at all, often got questionable advice.

Well, I was a noob once and when I didn't get responses I pointedly asked the guys why not. This thread is the direct result. The indirect result is that the experts are posting again because most of the questions are specific and have shorter answers than, "Tell me all there is to know about Grafik Eyes".

I'm sorry to see ballvice go, but it's his choice. If you two won't participate here, then who loses? You do.

First of all - my questions were specific questions - not "Tell me all about the Grafik Eye system" and your response was dead WRONG. You can NOT just tie them all together - maybe you should read the manuals.

Secondly "read the manual" is not an answer that someone who knows what they are doing would or should give if they are truly trying to help someone. Upon reviewing your responses, this seems to be one of your favorite answers. Lutrons directions can seem confusing and slightly misleading if you are not familiar with products as a professional installer may be.

Now you might have some positive input to these threads and you certainly answer enough questions for people but it is your overall condesending tone that I am questioning. As a "one time newby" you should recognize this more readily than others.

Rude? Rather, direct. In your case, timps, you started your long pout when I suggested that your questions belonged in a separate thread since they had veered off topic and were inappropriate for a sticky thread. Too bad you've changed your tactic to sniping.

As for suggesting that ballvice read and heed the early posts in this thread, I make no excuse or apology. Once upon a time every newbie DIYer would start a new thread here wanting to know all about Grafik Eyes. As a result, the guys that really knew about GEs, wiring, lighting control, etc. stopped answering the noobs. They just didn't have time to teach the same class every week. The noobs, if they got any advice at all, often got questionable advice.

Well, I was a noob once and when I didn't get responses I pointedly asked the guys why not. This thread is the direct result. The indirect result is that the experts are posting again because most of the questions are specific and have shorter answers than, "Tell me all there is to know about Grafik Eyes".

I'm sorry to see ballvice go, but it's his choice. If you two won't participate here, then who loses? You do.

Although the "posting for our own amusement" comment may have been a little strong, I definitely see DMFs point of view here...

Sometimes it's frustrating to get handfuls of PMs week after week from guys with single-digit post counts asking redundant questions that are clearly answered in the first few posts of the same thread where they found our names.

BTW, DMF and I have been in contact several times over the year or so that this has been going on, and I can say that there is more than a little but of sarcastic humor behind that comment... I definitely laughed when I read it.

I think that anyone who starts or significantly contributes to a sticky here has wished at one time or another that the Search function was explained a little better to people signing up for the first time. I use it all the time...

I welcome you guys to keep asking questions if anything is unclear to you.
Of course I would hope that you would spend some time browsing the first couple pages and the links that exist in those posts, but by all means feel free to ask away if questions still exist.

After all, the alternative is to go at it on your own, and if you read any of the links in the first few posts to the threads that prompted some of us sitting down and spending CONSIDERABLE time assembling this thread, then you know that there were some seriously unsafe installs being performed by otherwise well-intentioned DIY guys who really didn't understand the application of the product.

Grafik Eye lighting control makes a great addition to a home theater space, and really adds a lot of value to anyone with front projection. I mean for $400-500 total you can significantly enhance the contrast and perceived brightness of your setup without spending another dime on the video products themselves.

That has to be one of the better returns on investment in front projection!!

... your response was dead WRONG. You can NOT just tie them all together - maybe you should read the manuals. Explain. When installed according to the manuals, the data lines are daisy chained. That is topologically and electrically identical to an end-run scheme where the data lines are all tied together at a single point.

Did you really think I meant to tie the different colors together? :rolleyes:

Maybe I missed it in here I'm getting ready to install one of these but I was confused on how I should wire my lights. Should I run one lead from each light to the box, or wire the lights I want on a zone together. I suppose the one light one wire lead would allow for the most flexiblity. But what is the normal case for install?

OK I've read this all the way through!

If I understand this correctly, for my new HT I need:

1) A Grafik Eye (such as 3104 4zone/4scene)
2) A controller hardwired to Grafik Eye that allows me to select scenes either manually or remotely (such as NTGRX-4S-IR).


One thing I have not seen anywhere: Where do you all typically locate the Grafik Eye and the controller in the room, or does it matter?

End run for multiple lights in a zone is entirely possible, but not practical. Uses too much cable (have you priced copper lately?), requires huge splices, big junction boxes, big or multiple holes through the joists, etc..

Daisy chain is the way to go. But if you have a case where you're not sure if these four lumineres should be in the same zone as these other four, it might make sense to treat them as separate zones until you get back to the dimming panel. Just be aware that it might require a separate or larger junction box to handle the extra cables.

If I understand this correctly, for my new HT I need:

1) A Grafik Eye (such as 3104 4zone/4scene)
2) A controller hardwired to Grafik Eye that allows me to select scenes either manually or remotely (such as NTGRX-4S-IR).
1) 3104 supports four zones. It also supports 16 scenes, although only four are selectable from the front panel. (Other sets of four are selectable from remote wallstations or a remote control.)

2) Why do you need the wallstation? GE has buttons on it to select the scenes and an infrared pickup for remote control. A wallstation is for control from outside the room or at another entrance or location.

One thing I have not seen anywhere: Where do you all typically locate the Grafik Eye and the controller in the room, or does it matter?
Doesn't really matter. Some people put it next to the door for egress control. But that often places it behind the seating and infrared is line-of sight. You could go with an RF controlled version, or use a Lutron repeater like GRX-CIR or one of the IR wallstations, or use a 3rd party repeater. Or shoot over your shoulder.

It doesn't even have to be in the room at all.

Thanks DMD!

After reading I assumed that the GE was just the brains and you needed a controller to go with it of some sort. You saved me some $$$...

The GE will go just inside my one door into the HT (at the back of the HT) and I will use it's front panel to manually turn on/off.

I have not investigated master remotes yet but I would like to sit in the sweet spot facing forward and select lighting scenes along with everything else. I need to investigate RF and IR possibilities...

Wiring up my Grafik Eye tomorrow (finally!!)...but had one question before I did:

Has anyone used an Eye with an outdoor lighting transformer (Malibu lighting, ect.)? From what I can tell, they output 12v AC....but I can not figure out if they are magnetic or electronic. I would "assume" they are magnetic due to the large size and weight. (indicative of a large wattage 10/1 step-down transformer).

I don't want to hook it up and blow up my Grafik eye because it happens to be a electronic low voltage setup. Well, actually....will it hurt anything IF I hook it up and it's ELV? Will the transfomer simply not work or do I guarentee I will destroy my Grafik Eye?

Thoughts anyone?

Based on your description, it is likely a magnetic transformer. None-the-less, if it is ELV the GE won't blow up. It's more likely that the lights will either not dim properly or that the transformer will fail.

Thanks Dennis. I will have to stop by and show you some of my finished theater pictures. Just have trim work left to complete. :p

Wired the Eye with no problems. Pretty neat to see it dim the Malibu deck lights I used above the steps for the riser.

Only slight problem...I get a hum with my Magnetic Low Voltage Cans installed in the ceiling when they are not at full brightness. These are the same DMF installed.

Any good way to eliminate the hum? (Besides not dimming the lights. ;) )

Are you talking about the Home Depot eyeball cans?

I'd exchange any can that hums.

They are the brushed nickel ones you have on your porch.

I will try and listen to each to see if it's just one making all the racket.

I'm reading over these posts, but I still don't think I grasp the concept... What exactly IS the Grafik Eye? How would one use it?

I'm still pretty new to all of this stuff, and I think I kind of get what it does, somewhat, so I apologize for any break in your discussion.

A Grafik Eye is an integrated lighting controller to replace multiple light switches/dimmers in a single area. Using a Grafik Eye allows simple keypad control at multiple entry points, as well as a reliable interface with universal remote systems and upscale automation & control systems.

This is a VERY simplified description, and I hope this brings a fresh perspective to make the first couple pages make more sense for you.
Before anyone pops in with corrections to the above statement, I obviously know that it can operate many loads in multiple rooms when configured to do so...

But for 99.9% of the people visitng this thread on a home theater forum, it will be for a single area.

Well put cinemascope. I would like to add you need to think in terms of scenes you want to create. Say you push the button labled movies/TV. The Grafix Eye can dim the wall sconces to 15%, turn off the main room lighting, etc. to creat a scene. With a contact enclosure it can also lower your screen and turn on your projector.

To know what a Grafik Eye does, one must have some sense of what the design of interior lighting can do for a room. Proper lighting design can increase livability, usability, attractiveness, and value. Unfortunately, this is a much neglected topic; I have yet to see any spec or mass-market home that implements any of the design principles.

Rather than use all-purpose light sources, one assigns each light source or group a specific purpose. There are three main purposes: ambient or general illumination, task lighting, and accent lighting. The first purpose seems to speak for itself, but when you separate task and accent lighting from it, you find that general illumination does not need to be bright as we usually have it. It only needs to provide an ambient level, especially for moving about safely. It may consist of different areas, for instance brighter light over walkways.

Task lighting concentrates an appropriate level of light on an area used for a task, such as reading or cooking. It does not always need to be at a different level than ambient. Accent lighting highlights an architectural or decorative element such as a wall, a flower arrangement, or a sculpture. Obviously, assigning light sources to purposes requires many light sources.

An interior designer combines these types of lighting to "layer" a room, making it appear larger or more interesting. For instance, when you enter a room there may be a strongly illuminated sculpture in the foreground, a lower ambient level, a wash on the far wall, and a couple of brighter work areas in the room. Compare that with the typical "four white walls, one bright light" environment that we usually live in.

But to be most functional, purpose-designed lighting must be adaptable to the several potential uses of a room. For instance, the lighting levels will be quite different for a dining room between the Formal Dining, Cleaning, and Night Light uses (called 'scenes'). Likewise a home theater may have Watch Film, Cleaning, Entry/Exit, and Discussion scenes.

Controlling many light sources or groups through different scenes is what the Grafik Eye is used for.

D, did you pick up some of those lighting design books I recommended last year??

For anyone else who may be looking for a good resource for lighting design, I highly recommend the Lighting Design Sourcebook from Randall Whitehead.
It has unbelievable photos and great descriptions of the lighting in gorgeous residential, commercial, and landscape applications.

I haven't found a definitive text on lighting control, but I have a distinct feeling that this could change soon...

Does anyone know where I can get a LUT-DMX. This lets a Grafik Eye control a DMX512 dimmable device. Lutron has them on their website, but I can't seem to find an online store that carries them.

Thanks

Try a local electrical wholesaler. They will likely have to order it.

Try a local electrical wholesaler. They will likely have to order it.

Any idea of an online wholesaler ? I am in New Zealand, so there is no "local" GE stockist :)

Hi all,
First of all, excellent information on this thread from very competent folks.
Now my problem:
I have GE3106 in my media room to control 4 sets of dimmer lights. My problem is that I get a lot of video hum bars(audio has no hum) when I use the GE. No hum bars on dvi (purely digital) but a lot on s-video and component video outputs (analog). I have traced it down to the emi/rf interference from GE (tested with the am radio method). I have tried everything that I can think of and it all is related to lutron dimmer. I have even tried jensen s-video isomax with definite improvement but at the cost of significant reduction of pq. The wall gang box is the metal one (switched from the originally fitted plastic box). I have tried to individually turn off each zone to troubleshoot but still get the horizontal hum bars and it is definately the emi??. I even tried a new lutron replacement but to no awail. Please help!!! Any suggestions???
Thanks in advance.
sunil

Any idea of an online wholesaler ? I am in New Zealand, so there is no "local" GE stockist :) Are you telling us that no one in NZ sells Lutron? If you don't know of someone, contact Lutron.

As for online dealers, you're in at least as good a position as us to figure that out. We aren't looking for a LUT-DMX. Nor do we pay attention to whether a online dealer ships to New Zealand. You will probably have to contact each dealer directly.

Don't expect that anyone will stock that item. Local or online, you will have to wait for a special order. Might as well establish a relationship with a local shop, if possible. You will be buying more electrical parts, surely.

AVS GE Experts, I need your help. I have recently completed my HT and have a GRX-3104 along with one wallstation (NTGRX-1S). Everything seems to work fine except for one thing: when I push the "Scene 1" button on the wallstation, it will not mimic the fade-in rate I selected on the GE. It seems to set the correct zone lighting levels but always illuminates the room in 3 seconds, which I am guessing is a default setting.

All other buttons on the wallstation seem to work fine; they select the correct zone levels and also fade them in at the correct rate.

Interestingly, I noticed that if I select scene 1 on the wallstation while one of the other 3 scenes is selected, it sometimes will fade in at the correct rate. But if all lights are turned completely off using the "Off" button on the wallstation, and I then press scene 1 on the wallstation, it always fades them in within 3 seconds.

Any idea how to fix this problem?

I don't think there is a fix using the NTGRX-1S. The 3000 Series is designed around the data bus. Apparently the high-voltage SSA control feature is retained for backward compatibility with the 2000 series but may not be well integrated with the 3000 features. Using SSA to force the unit to Scene 1 may bypass some of the "smart" attributes like fade time.

If you used a wallstation like the SeeTouch SG-2B (http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/sg_2b.pdf) (or just about any wallstation besides the NTGRX-1S) that connects to the GE via a low-voltage data cable, the problem would go away.

That said, if you use the wallstation as an entrance control, why would you want a slow fade-up time? Do you like entering the room in the dark? Or if you want faster fade-up, you might try putting one of the zones in "non-fade" mode.

Trying to create 3106 based lighting solution in home (but total newbie). Happy with GRX feature set for manual control (ie scenes, remote switches and IR control), however want to drive the units (through RS232) with more sophisticated software from a PC (software handling the conditional logic, Astronomical clock, timers for vacation etc and driving GRX's in real time). So in effect have the features of homeworks on a PC driving the scene/zone selection on the GRX's. I dont want to progam the GRX's or mess about with setting dimming increments, just invoke scene/zone selections in real time based on control software on PC (giving similar feature set to HWI). I have looked at CQC and it seem promising but fair bit of customisation - so wanted to check if there were other (pre canned) solutions - if anyone is working on a plugin to cover this in mediaportal please let me know :)

Trying to create 3106 based lighting solution in home (but total newbie). Happy with GRX feature set for manual control (ie scenes, remote switches and IR control), however want to drive the units (through RS232) with more sophisticated software from a PC (software handling the conditional logic, Astronomical clock, timers for vacation etc and driving GRX's in real time). So in effect have the features of homeworks on a PC driving the scene/zone selection on the GRX's. I dont want to progam the GRX's or mess about with setting dimming increments, just invoke scene/zone selections in real time based on control software on PC (giving similar feature set to HWI). I have looked at CQC and it seem promising but fair bit of customisation - so wanted to check if there were other (pre canned) solutions - if anyone is working on a plugin to cover this in mediaportal please let me know :)
If you want the most functionality through RS-232, use a GRX-3506 instead of a '3106. You will also need a GRX-232 or a GRX-PRG to act as the interface.

I have looked at CQC and it seem promising but fair bit of customisation - so wanted to check if there were other (pre canned) solutions - if anyone is working on a plugin to cover this in mediaportal please let me know


For requirements that specific, it's probably kind of unlikely that there'd be something off the shelf, though anything is possible. If you don't find anything out of the can, I don't think you'll find CQC that complex to set up, though anythign that powerful will have some learning curve. But our DIY community is quite helpful and knowledgeable and can give you a lot of assistance.

I don't think there is a fix using the NTGRX-1S. The 3000 Series is designed around the data bus. Apparently the high-voltage SSA control feature is retained for backward compatibility with the 2000 series but may not be well integrated with the 3000 features. Using SSA to force the unit to Scene 1 may bypass some of the "smart" attributes like fade time.

If you used a wallstation like the SeeTouch SG-2B (or just about any wallstation besides the NTGRX-1S) that connects to the GE via a low-voltage data cable, the problem would go away.

That said, if you use the wallstation as an entrance control, why would you want a slow fade-up time? Do you like entering the room in the dark? Or if you want faster fade-up, you might try putting one of the zones in "non-fade" mode.Thanks for the response. It is just strange to me that it fades correctly if you press the Scene 1 button while you have one of the other 3 preprammed scenes selected, but not if you select Scene 1 with the lights currently in the Off position.

The reason I wanted a slower fade-up time was to create slightly more dramatic lighting upon entering the HT. With the default of 3 seconds, the lights are pretty much all the way on by the time anyone enters the room. It would be cool to have them coming up as people are entering the HT. This doesn't mean people are entering the room in the dark, by the way. I'm not talking about a 30-minute fade-up time here; rather, I was hoping for something like 15-25 seconds.

Not a showstopper, but a "nice-to-have" for me...

Dean, Rick, thanks for the replies. Will get to work with CQC. Just a couple of other general 3106 questions....

DMF wrote in an earlier post...
With a 3500 (and a GRX-PRG and a PC with the Liaison software) there is a sneaky way to do what you want. Create a scene with all zones that you don't want to change set as UA (unaffected). When you select that scene from the remote, they will stay unchanged. Then using the scene raise/lower commands, only the zone that is not set to UA will change.

From the docs I have read I assume this can also be done on a 310x through manual setup.

Also I was wondering if there are third party wallstation - bit disapointent in the limitation in the addressing of scenes on the Lutrons (eg the NTGRX-2B can really only address two sets of scenes - 9/10 or 13/14).

PS Great forum. Best Regards Jim

My Grafik Eye will be on the side wall of my HT, about even with the first row of seating. How distracting will the zone LEDs be if I use a translucent cover? Does the translucent cover sufficiently tone down the LEDs or would I be better off with the opaque cover?

Depends on how dark your theater is. The translucent cover does a pretty good job of dimming the zone LEDs. The button selection LEDs are brighter. Don't worry about it. If it becomes a problem you can put some black tape over the inside of the cover.

A quick question - I'm having homeworks installed in the UK, and have just been sent a quote for the engraving of the buttons - should this be included if it is standard engraving - I'm using the European switches? Also does the 3 star service apply in the UK as advertised on the US website?

thanks

There is no extra charge from Lutron for standard engraving.

I don't know about anything specific to Europe or the UK. Try calling Lutron tech support.

For those Lutron fans, let me tell you its service doesn't travel well.

I've had (or rather having..) homeworks 8 installed. Lutron scan as the best company around, and I assumed the product and service in the uk to be on a par with the US. Whilst my eyes watered at the price (think US$ cost, add perhaps 25% and then exchange at $1 to £1, (forget the $1.8 to £1 you see at the bank), I bit the bullet. After all best product, best service, best support, you get what you pay for as these sites keep reminding us.

Free engraving - yes, but that means taking all the face plates off and sending them off for 4-6 weeks and having no lights at home. Hmm, or I could buy 20+ new face plates (over £1,000) and wait 4-6 weeks. Not what I expected, and not reasonable - do they do that to you in the US?

Warranty and service - in deciding whether to go with Lutron, I checked the website, which showed 3 star service for all Homeworks - so peace of mind post commissioning that any minor issues would be fully supported. But, apparently, that is only for the US, no mention that it is not offered elsewhere. Can anyone tell me how they support product outside the US?

And the programming - well, the full day of programming promised was 10am to 2pm, and vanish without a proper check, leaving parts not working... So Lutron, if your watching, do you want to sell in the UK, because from here I feel stitched up well and truly like a kipper.

Free engraving - yes, but that means taking all the face plates off and sending them off for 4-6 weeks and having no lights at home. Hmm, or I could buy 20+ new face plates (over £1,000) and wait 4-6 weeks. Not what I expected, and not reasonable - do they do that to you in the US? That's not how it works here. The free standard engraving (8 or 12 variations) is specified when the wall units are ordered. Can't imagine that it would be different over there.

Sounds to me like your installer is trying to sell you units from his stock - maybe left over from another job - instead of ordering them. Or he ordered 'no engraving' and is now trying to make you pay to fix it. (Could be your fault if you didn't specify the engraving up front.) You need to get this straight with him.

And the programming - well, the full day of programming promised was 10am to 2pm, and vanish without a proper check, leaving parts not working... So Lutron, if your watching, do you want to sell in the UK, because from here I feel stitched up well and truly like a kipper. That's because you apparently have been stitched up. But don't blame Lutron. Your installer is an independent contractor. Do you have a contract with him? Have you paid him yet?

Don't expect that Lutron will be able to help with the relationship between you and your installer. But they might be interested to know how their "representative" is treating his customers.

Received my 3106 the other day and even though my HT is far from complete, I had to temporarily wire it in to give it a try. Unfortunately I am getting a faint, but audible humming or buzzing with my 4" low voltage cans. The fixtures are from Topaz lighting and are the air-tight IC rated version. The humming sounds one way when the lights are at 100%; if they are dimmed from 10% to 90% they sound slightly different. However, the noise at 10% sounds the same as 90%. I can notice the sound if the basement is dead silent, but as soon as the anything turns on (A/C or freezer), the humming gets lost in the background noise. Not sure if it will get better or worse once the insulation, drywall and greenglue goes up. On the one hand maybe once the ceiling is drywalled, it will help to reduce the amount of humming I hear. Then again, the noise floor will be lower once the walls are up.

There's an FAQ on the Lutron web site regarding buzzing with magnetic low voltage fixtures, and they recommend a lamp debuzzing coil item LDC-10-TCP. What's interesting is that they warn the coil itself will buzz and to make sure it is located outside of the room. Anyone have any experiences with this item?

Buzzing can sometimes be corrected by changing the bulb brand (I like GE). If that doesn't work it's because the fixture manufacture uses cheap transformers. Good magnetic transformers are by far the most expensive part of the fixture. I will only install Lightolier 200AICV which cost me about 76.00, or if the budget allows Iris P3MR which costs me about 148.00. The Iris has a dual tap transformer which allows the correct voltage to reach the bulb even when a dimmer is used, and a beautifully designed aiming mechanism. I'm not familiar with Topaz.

Bill

Hi,

I just purchased a Grafik Eye 3104 on eBay with the intention of using it in my Homeworks system but now I'm worried that it might not be compatible. Homeworks Interactive lists GRX-IA models which according to the top of this thread corresponds to the 3500 series.

Am I screwed?

Thanks!
Danny

Yes. 3100 series doesn't understand the commands issued by Homeworks.

Oh well, back to eBay with it! Unless, of course, anyone here wants to buy a 3104 for what I paid ($310).