I've had Charter out twice now to try and get the SA PKM600 cablecard working with my Samsung HLR6178. Neither of the technicians were knowledgable about the cablecards at all. The cablecard is not working. It receives most of the channels after resetting it (during the "Updating Channel List" message on the screen). Once the "Updating Channel List" message disappears - so do my channels. I'm left a handful of channels (channels 199, 311-315, 317, 320, 720-729, 897), that's it!



after you reseat the cable card, you should get a screen that says 'found x number of analog & x number of digital' .. if the screen goes blank you may need to go into your tv menu & enter the cablecard setup option -> cablecard reset or channel list. With some of the sony's & jvc's you need to go under the cable card menu -> network setup, locate the 'hunt' option & hit ok on the remote. That should tune in both analog & digital channels.

Sometimes the cable operator will have option to temp enable the cable card without it being on an account & tied to the subscribed features. You can see if the tech will do this for you. If that works you can have the card reentered on your account, have the cable card id, host id & host data #'s entered into the companys system & then have them send a pairing hit. If your channels are still there you should be good to go.

My 7th tech appointment is about to begin. :(

Ok they came today and put in a card dated 3/27/05. The card I got earlier in the week and also before was 3/24/05. This card as of right now has been working for 20 minutes with all channels coming in. I won't claim success until it's been worrking for a few days but right now it's looking good.

This card as of right now has been working for 20 minutes with all channels coming in. I won't claim success until it's been worrking for a few days but right now it's looking good.

Yippee!! I hope this holds up for you.

I'm now at 9+ weeks and counting, and have never even gotten my Sony DVR card authorized. By chance, a Comcast engineer in Colorado sent a tech e-mail around, stating that the new Sony DVR's are supported. My local supervisor will be contacting that engineer, so maybe there is a real chance for a breakthrough.

Three days and no reset needed. I think Adelphia got it right this time. No one came to the house, it just started working. Looking at my signal diag it appears they boosted it from the dispatch as it now reads signal to noise ratio 37, instead of the 25 I was getting earlier this week. I think they outed my broadband yesterday as it wouldn't take a new IP address with their weekly change over but it's back talking this morning, so everything is looking good. Just hope it stays this way. So when are the two way cablecards comming out?

7 Hours and still going strong. :D

7 Hours and still going strong. :D

Do you know if they did a signal boost? I think that's what did the trick for my card. Although it did disrupt my cable modem. It was up and down all day with no other reported outages on their server. I installed a RF 6db attenuator at the cable modem to lower the signal there and it's held steady for the past few hours. I had read somewhere back on this thread about the signal boost/cable modem problem so luckily I knew how to deal with this.

Of course they didn't have a clue at the helpdesk and wanted to send a tech out on Sept. 10th., the soonest date they could give me. I listened not so politely to their customer service rep and asked to speak to a level 2 tech, was denied the conversation because the cable modem would not connect at all, and was told I'd have to wait another 10 days for the service call. It's this kind of response that just blows me away every time I speak with Adelphia. Thank goodness for these forums! According to them I shouldn't be online right now......lol.

Ok well I knew it was too good to be true. I'm getting macro blocking and sound drops on some channels. I took a quick picture of ESPN and INHD1:

http://www.myimgs.com/data/Stryker412/cc01.jpg
http://www.myimgs.com/data/Stryker412/cc02.jpg

after you reseat the cable card, you should get a screen that says 'found x number of analog & x number of digital' .. if the screen goes blank you may need to go into your tv menu & enter the cablecard setup option -> cablecard reset or channel list. With some of the sony's & jvc's you need to go under the cable card menu -> network setup, locate the 'hunt' option & hit ok on the remote. That should tune in both analog & digital channels.

I've reseated the card a few times and have never seen the above screen. I wonder if it's related to the TV brand. Most of the channels work immediately after the reseat (until the "Updating Channels" message goes away). Although I have never received all of the paid-for channels (e.g. NESN-HD is not available). The tech left my original STB-HD box and it's working fine (meaning that the paid-for channels are accessible).

I'm having a Charter tech out again this coming week to try and get the card working. I hope the tech will be knowledgable on the cablecard... thusfar it's been OJT for them.

... Looking at my signal diag it appears they boosted it from the dispatch as it now reads signal to noise ratio 37, instead of the 25 I was getting earlier this week. I think they outed my broadband yesterday as it wouldn't take a new IP address with their weekly change over but it's back talking this morning, so everything is looking good. Just hope it stays this way. So when are the two way cablecards comming out?

Would a boost (power injector) at the house work (i can get a 10db boost by inserting a power injector just prior to the TV)? or does the boost have to originate from the cable company? Are there pro's or con's to using a local power injector? Any danger to the components?

Do you know if they did a signal boost? I think that's what did the trick for my card. Although it did disrupt my cable modem. It was up and down all day with no other reported outages on their server. I installed a RF 6db attenuator at the cable modem to lower the signal there and it's held steady for the past few hours. I had read somewhere back on this thread about the signal boost/cable modem problem so luckily I knew how to deal with this.

Of course they didn't have a clue at the helpdesk and wanted to send a tech out on Sept. 10th., the soonest date they could give me. I listened not so politely to their customer service rep and asked to speak to a level 2 tech, was denied the conversation because the cable modem would not connect at all, and was told I'd have to wait another 10 days for the service call. It's this kind of response that just blows me away every time I speak with Adelphia. Thank goodness for these forums! According to them I shouldn't be online right now......lol.

There are power injector's available that can boost the signal 10db and used local to the TV (I.e. wouldn't impact the modem). I don't know whether this will solve the problem though... does the boost have to originate from the cable company or can a local boost work??

[QUOTE=ybsane]The problem is the SNR which is to low for 256QAM, boosting the signal will not help, you will be amplifying noise.

Yes, exactly, boosters will usually only amplify the bad. I'm not sure what they did to get my card working, I can only refer to the Sony Diag screen and the SNR which has changed dramatically since the card actually started to hold it's data for more than a few hours. Four days now and no disruptions.

What that did to my broadband connection time will tell. I tried an attenuator last night to lower the signal at the cable modem. I thought it was working but it went back out about 11PM. This morning I plugged back in without the attenuator and it's been ok for a few hours now. I also notice they have VOD back up and running so I think all these problems were at their headend etc., and they just wouldn't tell me that over the phone. Keeping my fingers crossed for today.

Please don't forget us as each of your situations progress. Be stubborn.

The problem Stryker42 and others are having now is the July Firmware update on the SA CableCards is apparently causing havoc on some Sony Sets. Mine was updated on August 3rd and nothing but issues since. Apparently he is in the same boat.

My line was balanced again on Saturday and I still have the issue on 1 QAM with a -1db reading on the QAM and a SNR of -37db.

The installer has seen it as well. It only seems to occur on the cable card, not the STB. And yes, the cable card has been changed out as well.

It appears to be an issue in the most current SA firmware they have pushed out and the first generation Sony CableCard TVs that were brought to market for the second half of 2004 when cable card became mandatory in July of 2004.

I just finished talking with the Samsung tech support about my SA cablecard (PKM600) not working. She told me that the FW version has to be 4.5 or greater. However, she was not sure if that applied to Motorola, SA, or both.

My cable company, Charter Communications, has given me a PKM600 with build number and date= 2.3.148s2(0) Tue Oct 19, 2004, 4:51:29 PM EDT

1) What is the latest FW version others have for the SA card?

2) Should I expect Charter to be able to update the FW remotely (i'd hope so)

3) Is the FW version used by SA the same as that used by Motorola?

The Charter tech will be here on Wednesday. I'd like to be armed with the right questions and information to get this resolved.

Thanks in advance!

my S/A/Comcast card (in a Sharp):

OS build 2.3.149s2 May 5 2005

the firmware you have is one behind mine and was more stable I thought: lots of issues with the later firmware which was the reason for this thread

firmware is updated automatically: typically all you have to do is turn the tv off by the remote for a few secs then back on: if a firmware update is available- it will start with an info screen: takes a while


it depends what firmware your headend is using

I tried an attenuator last night to lower the signal at the cable modem. I thought it was working but it went back out about 11PM. This morning I plugged back in without the attenuator and it's been ok for a few hours now. I also notice they have VOD back up and running so I think all these problems were at their headend etc., and they just wouldn't tell me that over the phone. Keeping my fingers crossed for today.


You could search for a software program through a search engine with the keywords 'Toshiba DOCSIS Cable Modem Advanced Diagnostics' (couldn't post the direct link) & look for the website 'iggyz'

Download Toshiba modem diagnostics software from the zip file. You may need your Cable Modem IP address (possibly from the cable company), but with your IP information you can see your Forward/Reverse levels, Forward SNR levels & if you have any forward or reverse error rates. You can also see if you have any packet loss through a ping test.

You could move your modem & computer to the cable outlet you are using for your cable card & also find the levels there. I am not sure if the frequency of your data signal will be the same as the channels you are having problems with, but it could be a good start.

I ordered Verizon DSL today and my connection to their network should be established soon. The good news is... in addition to saving $5 per month for Internet access, I can dedicate (no additional splits) my coax cable to Time Warner's Digital TV Service... what's left of it... ;)

Some people say 2-way Cable Card is coming and others say the cable companies are dragging their feet on it. What's the real deal?

Both.

Interesting article from broadcastengineering.com: "Samsung gains first OpenCable Certification on two-way digital television" located here: http://broadcastengineering.com/newsletters/bth/20050828/Samsung-open-cable-20050828/


re 2 way CableCards: I don't think there is a mandate for 2 way cards or an implementation date, but I think a 2 way card is essential

Yes there is an implementation date. It was supposed to be in 2006, but Microsoft helped the cable industry lobby for a one year delay. At some point even cable company's STBs are supposed to not use proprietary security schemes but implement the same OpenCable specifications as 2-way CableCARDs.

"ProTuber" are you using Albany Time Warner's CableCARD?

Both.

Interesting article from broadcastengineering.com: "Samsung gains first OpenCable Certification on two-way digital television" located here: http://broadcastengineering.com/newsletters/bth/20050828/Samsung-open-cable-20050828/



Yes there is an implementation date. It was supposed to be in 2006, but Microsoft helped the cable industry lobby for a one year delay. At some point even cable company's STBs are supposed to not use proprietary security schemes but implement the same OpenCable specifications as 2-way CableCARDs.

Please don't tell me that I'll have to buy another set to use the 2way when it comes out? Reading the above link it appears so??????? I just purchased this Sony 50A10 a month ago.

Please don't tell me that I'll have to buy another set to use the 2way when it comes out? Reading the above link it appears so??????? I just purchased this Sony 50A10 a month ago.
Ah yes, the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat of being an early adopter... :D

When 2-way CableCARDs become standard, cable providers will continue to support 1-way CableCARDs but this generation of host DCR devices will remain 1-way.

When 2-way CableCARDs become standard, cable providers will continue to support 1-way CableCARDs but this generation of host DCR devices will remain 1-way.

Which explains why the cable companies don't want the one way cards (and sets) to work. They want the one way set to work only with the use of the box. The two way cards (and sets) will turn out to work ok.

All the cable companies have to do is hold out long enough so that everyone has two way capability. Then they can plan on extra revenue.

For those interested, a link to Panasonic's Firmware Downloads (http://www.pasctraining.panasonic.com/SpecialApplications/ProductFirmwareDownloads/downloads1.asp) for the PX50/500Us and other assorted models.

I guess that first night was a glitch or something. It's been running fine ever since. No breakups, audio drops, or lost channels. Now that I've said that though..... :D

I guess that first night was a glitch or something. It's been running fine ever since. No breakups, audio drops, or lost channels. Now that I've said that though..... :D


Exactly, these cards are so touchy a small drop in signal strength and you're resetting the thing. They should have built in more tolerance considering the age of some of our cable systems. It's hard to troubleshoot mine, it's up for hours and hours but the problem occurs sporadically when I power down the TV. On power up the card needs resetting 5 times out of ten. I haven't been able to pinpoint the exact problem yet. Sometimes when it comes back I'm "subscribed", other times I'm "unknown". It may be just the cable system. We loose our VOD on a daily basis also. I have no other problems with it however, the PQ is great.

ybsane,

What do I need to have my cable tech do to increase my snr #. Mine is 30-35 & I've had problems for months now. TWC has put an amp to increase my signal strength, exchanged my cc, but that hasn't done squat. I have to reset my card almost daily. I have an apointment Saturday and want to make sure they do what needs to be done. I've talked to tier 3 techs who seem to know what needs to be done, but the techs coming to my door are clueless. Any help much appreciated.

Thanks

Kind of quiet on this thread. Has the problem been taken care of or have you given up? Probably everythings ok and people are busy watching tv via their cablecard.

My problem seems to be solved. I also got comcast to give me their going cable rate for the next year. :D So yeah I'm busy watching HBO. :D

stable here as well ;)

Nah, some of us are just waiting for Saturday appointments with the clueless techs. My whole cable system goes toe up every day at around 10AM and stays that way until about 6PM. Right on schedule.
My tv and broadband are split in the bedroom and to stay onlineafter 10AM I have to unhook the TV and just use the cable modem coax from the wall. The cablecard downstairs still needs re-sets but now it's every other day. I bought a Moto signal booster for the upstairs but that has not stopped the 10AM problem. I'm pretty sure it's something with their signal drop, my equipment seems OK, but what do I know....

Thanks for posting, folks. Stay with us for a while, please, if your problem has been fixed.

I'm still waiting on Verizon for my DSL activation... ;)

hmm i have a weekend install. I would think the more experienced guys have seniority and dont have to work weekends, what do you think?

My CableCARD was installed on a Saturday with no major problems... it's not exactly rocket science; just don’t let the installer go until you're satisfied because he/she is the only one who can speak directly to the CableCARD guy’s at the head-end.

Hi Guy`s,
Anyone know what this error message means "161-6"
I have Adelphia and a Sony XS955 plasma and was watching the "Pat`s" ( they won :) ),
when all of a sudden this screen comes up stating there is a problem and that I should call my cable co. and give them this code.
Well , I didn`t , what I did do was reset the CC and turned off my tv for about 5 min. and all was well !
It is still a-ok , but it is very strange ( I think ) to have that error message.
Any thoughts ?
Thanks,
Gary

Bob

Thank you

Today is a great example of the picture quality of DVR vs CC. I'm watching the Chiefs/Jets game on CBS. The CC picture is just gorgeous compared to the DVR. It's a big difference.

"ProTuber" are you using Albany Time Warner's CableCARD?

Yes. 53" CRT RPTV Model 53WXD63G with a manufacture date of Oct 2003. Using digital optical output to a Dolby Digital decoder. Have had no CableCARD issues since the October 2004 SA firmware update.

Have noted that all digital programming (except local broadcast stations) have CCI byte setting of 0x02 (which in an earlier post, I show reference to documentation available at the OpenCable website showing that that value is supposed to mean copy once). Even if it means 'copy never', it certainly shouldn't mean 'listen never.' Content owners and manufacturers spend far too much time, money, and energy trying to exercise control rather that providing the optimal consumer experience.

In any case, all audio on HD channels (as well as SD premiums) from my set is sent to the receiver as Dolby Digital, not PCM.

I have several questions:
Was there a date since 10/03 that took effect that mandates the behavior your equipment exhibits, but not mine?

Do all models from different manufacturers using CableCARDs on cable systems that use non-zero CCI byte values do the same thing? (I would like to see posts by others)

Was there a date since 10/03 that took effect that mandates the behavior your equipment exhibits, but not mine?

Do all models from different manufacturers using CableCARDs on cable systems that use non-zero CCI byte values do the same thing? (I would like to see posts by others)I believe you may be on to something here. I'm wondering how much logic regarding authorized DCR devices needs to be hard-coded into the firmware of the Scientific-Atlanta PowerKEY CableCARDs and if periodic firmware updates of the SA PowerKEY's is required to recognize each newer model of any DCR device. Panasonic claims the PX50Us are "self-certified" and they are included on the 'Opencable & Unidirectional Cable Products List.' (http://www.cablelabs.com/udcp/downloads/OC_PNP.pdf)

I upgraded my TV to the current firmware level today but to no avail. I agree CCI byte 0x02 is “copy once” protection but on the channels where my TV's optical interface is disabled it detects ECMs (entitlement control messages), which prevent digital sound from being relayed to my 6.1 channel receiver.

Bob, TW was out Saturday and the tech didn't have the right equiptment. His supervisor called me after he left, saying he would have someone out in the next few days who would. I also found out that our cable system is 700mhz? Sound right? I told him Samsung said I needed a version 4.05 cablecard, and we are still in the 3 build #'s. That may be the heart of my problem. He is calling Samsung to verify some technical info. I'll keep you posted as I get more info from TW.

Thanks for all your help
Aaron

Our brand new "CableCARD Ready" Panasonic TH42PX50U is set for installation today, 9/12/05. Called Brighthouse(Tampa Bay area - formerly T/W) about scheduling installation of cableCARD, and was told our model is not on their list. Very skeptical about this, but if they stonewall me, what are my options?

Print this and show them my TH-50PX50U with a Scientific-Atlanta PowerKEY CableCARD installed:

http://home.nycap.rr.com/nessus/px50u_1.210.JPG

and tell them they should have PX50Us on their list.

Print this and show them my TH-50PX50U with a Scientific-Atlanta PowerKEY CableCARD installed:



and tell them they should have PX50Us on their list.

Even the cablelabs PDF you posted above states it isnt an approved and certified model?

Since Panasonic has 7th generation PDPs on the "certified" list it is reasonable to assume they know how to build a DCR PX50U with a CableCARD slot. Even if the CableLabs documentation hasn’t been updated to reflect that.

Since Panasonic has 7th generation PDPs on the "certified" list it is reasonable to assume they know how to build a DCR PX50U with a CableCARD slot. Even if the CableLabs documentation hasn’t been updated to reflect that.

Well I guess they shouldnt even bother certifying them then.

Time Warner, Cox, Scientific-Atlanta and Motorola are the organizations who designed CableCARD security. For the $100+ per month I'm paying for digital service to be delivered to my home, IMO it's their responsibility to make it work properly.

Thats true.
But if I bought a mercedes and put a ford engine in it I wouldnt bring it to mercedes and say "Im still making payments on this each month, its your repsonsibility to make this work!"

CableLabs is there for a reason. They are certyfying sets for a reason. If you go and buy a set that isnt certified its not anyones responsibility to MAKE it work.
The same reason there is an approved modem list for the people that purchase their own modem.
You cant buy a modem your system doesnt support and say " Well, Im paying 57.00 a month, youd better make it work!"

Having dealt with Brighthouse in Tampabay about a Sony not on their list a year ago, I think I can speak with some authority on this.

It can be on Optivity's system and not Brighthouse. The opposite could be true in the future for another model. To get on the list, they must load the latest SA Powerkey SP at NOC in Brandon to authorize it.

Brighthouse - and other cable systems - are relucant to upgrade everytime a release comes out. They have not updated my SA3250HD firmware since June of last year for example. It would not have happened then if I didn't raise enough havoc to get some IEEE 1394 issues worked out.

Considering that the last CableCard update put in on August 3rd has caused me nightmares on HBO-HD/SHO-HD (700/701) I can see why they are relucant to constantly add new sofware in.

If you think of this like a computer NIC, each TV and CC has a unique MAC type address. The address in Hex is unique to each unit and each brand/model have a range, just like they do in computers NICs.

Even if they wanted to, if the Model/Hex Code Range is not in the range of the software at NOC, they could not add it if they wanted to. It would be like dialing a number on your phone that is not connected and would give them an error.

Bottom line - until they install the latest update from S/A with your model's hex range in it, the software will not take it.

What you can do - go up the line until you can get them to install the latest SA Updates.

the FCC MANDATES Cablecard deployment:

if a cableco does not have the proper software loaded that does not relieve them of the mandate to provide a working Cablecard for you

I would put my request in writing (certified mail) and send a copy to your local town's Cable TV commision

If you don"t keep the pressure on the cablecos we will never get these cards working , and we will never get 2 way cards

the FCC is now collecting data on customer problems with Cablecards: putting your request in writing makes a difference

What you can do - go up the line until you can get them to install the latest SA Updates.After not hearing anything for about three months, I called Time Warner yesterday to get a status regarding their CableCARD and my Dolby Digital sound output problems.

The response was: someone will to get back to me within 48 hours. :rolleyes:

(update: 9/13)

I received a voice message today from Time Warner and the representative said:

"regarding my digital audio interface being disabled - this is the way the CableCARD works, it won't be changed anytime soon and if I want my receiver to be able to play digital sound for those channels I should rent a cable box."

Oh, well. This is what I'm stuck with until another program source becomes available. I'm glad I'll be dropping RoadRunner this weekend. ;)

BTW... how "laughable" is it I can't get digital sound for reruns of "Buffy" on TNT-HD but I do for shows like "House" and "NFL Football" on my HD-local channel FOX? :rolleyes:

I just had Cablevision over to install a cablecard on my Sharp 45GX6U. The tech seemed to know what he was doing, but could not get premium channels to display. He was on the phone for about 1 hour with the office trying and kept trying to scan for channels, even though the set had all of the channels set, they just weren't displaying a picture.

Finally realized that the card was bad (error message was (02) card is invalid). He's coming back tomorrow with another card.

I really want this to work, and I better be able to record HD on my D-VHS VCR's!

seldenpat:
I had a similar problem with cablevision (except most of my premium went out a few days after installation of the card). They finally figured out that the cards were never "enabled" by cablevision, so they were being shut down later. It's like when you get a new stb for your tv - you usually get several channels that you're not supposed to, but you lose them a day or two later. I know yours were dead to start, but you may want the tech to check with Bethpage that the card is in the system.

Indeed, DO NOT GIVE UP. After 11+ weeks of frustration, my card problem (Sony DVR) was fixed, as described in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6205292#post6205292

There is hope! Keep after your cable company.

seldenpat:
I had a similar problem with cablevision (except most of my premium went out a few days after installation of the card). They finally figured out that the cards were never "enabled" by cablevision, so they were being shut down later. It's like when you get a new stb for your tv - you usually get several channels that you're not supposed to, but you lose them a day or two later. I know yours were dead to start, but you may want the tech to check with Bethpage that the card is in the system.

Mlandau,

Thanks for your reply. CV came back today (or yesterday since it's now Saturday) and replaced the card. Voila! Everything came in as expected. 1st card was bad. That's the good news...

After the tech left, I tried recording via firewire to my JVC 40k and my Mitsu 2000U. All of the network channels (702,704,705,707,711, and 713)were encoded as copy freely, so they recorded fine. All of the rest of the HD channels had the copy flag set to disabled. I called CV and they had NO CLUE what I was talking about. I tried to get to their engineering department, but they would only send a request to them.

They're supposed to get back to me withing 24 hours. Not holding my breath. Oh...BTW, I have 2 of their Sony boxes and I am able to record all HD channels via firewire, so it's not a system wide issue. Probably just with the cable card.

Do you have any experience with resolving this type of issue?

Thanks,
Patrick

After the tech left, I tried recording via firewire to my JVC 40k and my Mitsu 2000U. All of the network channels (702,704,705,707,711, and 713)were encoded as copy freely, so they recorded fine. All of the rest of the HD channels had the copy flag set to disabled... I have 2 of their Sony boxes and I am able to record all HD channels via firewire, so it's not a system wide issue. Probably just with the cable card.Your experience with the CableCARD is consistent with the standard "copy never" restrictions CATV providers will likely apply for conditional access of HD content. I'm not too optimistic there will be any change regarding this policy. Are you able to use your firewire interface for your HD local stations? Have you tried an optical digital out connection to an external 5.1 channel receiver?

Your experience with the CableCARD is consistent with the standard "copy never" restrictions CATV providers will likely apply for conditional access of HD content. I'm not too optimistic there will be any change regarding this policy. Are you able to use your firewire interface for your HD local stations? Have you tried an optical digital out connection to an external 5.1 channel receiver?

That is unfortunate. The Sharp tells me what the recording and optical flags are set to. For local stations, they are both OK. For all other stations, they are both disabled. So to answer your question, I haven't tried the optical digital out, but I don't think it would work.

I thought cable co's were required to allow at least a "copy once"?

I thought cable co's were required to allow at least a "copy once"?
Pretty darn certain that's determined by the content provider if you're talking premium channels like HBO and Showtime. Now that's not to say that the cableco doesn't have the channels flagged incorrectly..

That is unfortunate. The Sharp tells me what the recording and optical flags are set to. For local stations, they are both OK. For all other stations, they are both disabled. So to answer your question, I haven't tried the optical digital out, but I don't think it would work.

I thought cable co's were required to allow at least a "copy once"?They are, and now we know what "copy once" really means... this form of "conditional access" allows you to watch HD on your digital TV with all other on-board digital interfaces being disabled. When my PX50U's optical interface is disabled the CCI value is 0x02 with an ECM "entitlement control message" detected and within five seconds my TV's optical interface goes down. My HD local station(s) CCI changed from 0x00 and now pass CCI value 0x02 with no ECM's detected and the optical interface remains enabled. After 4 months of being BS'd around by my cable provider, I understand Time Warner’s HD digital policy. Since there isn't much I can do about it I'm trying to be satisfied with what they give me. After 4 months of expressing my disdain for their STBs this summer, I caved and rented a SA8300HD-DVR for my HD ready CRT-TV last night. :rolleyes:

The "good news" is my DSL is up! ;)

I hope you folks keep pounding away for cablecard service. I'll be starting the good fight myself in a month or two, I think.

Here's an update:

No response from Cablevision regarding the recording and digital flags. I did however avoid a service call. I have been missing 2 channels since day 2. Yesterday I decided to check and run the main cable feed straight into my display. Lo and behold, all stations come in fine. Seems as if my tuner in the Sharp is a little particular about the signal strength. I went to Radio Shack this morning and got their $17 gold 4 way splitter and now everything comes in fine. One problem down...one to go!

What did the $17.00 4-way splitter replace?

Some people say 2-way Cable Card is coming and others say the cable companies are dragging their feet on it. What's the real deal?

I don't know the real deal, but your question leads me to ask another. When the 2-way cards arrive, will they be backwards compatible? I just purchased a Sony v32xbr1 with an on-board hd tuner and a cable card slot. Comcast is delivering the cable card this afternoon.

Don't want to get ahead of things, but when the 2-way cards arrive, will they operate in my current set?

Two-way CableCARDs will be compatible with one-way CableCARD devices which will continue to support one-way service.

Two-way CableCARDs will be compatible with one-way CableCARD devices which will continue to support one-way service.

I read this to mean that the physical device (i.e., 2-way cc) will "fit" and operate in current cable card sets. but only in a unidirectional (downward) direction. Is that correct?

Yes, I believe this will be the case.

At least some manufacturers include a CableCARD info screen that contains IP addresses that are currently all "0.0.0.0". An IP address would only seem to be useful for 2-way communication. Just a guess, but maybe the possibilty of future 2-way service at some basic level is built in.

The 2-way spec is not complete, though, so I doubt that we would be so lucky as to have this work in current equipment.

At least some manufacturers include a CableCARD info screen that contains IP addresses that are currently all "0.0.0.0". An IP address would only seem to be useful for 2-way communication ...

TV manufacturers, or cable card manufacturers? Sorry if this is an inane question.

I see what Phil is referring to on Sharp LCD's with S/A Cable cards so I think the jury is still out on 2 way cards and current TV's:

at best, there may be some limited 2 way communications but that may be wishful thinking

Just thought I'd share my CC experience thru Charter here at West Covina, CA 91792. This is a true-to-life cable card experience with Charter Communications (lol). Before I decided to buy my WEGA HDTV (we655), I made sure that the CC service is readily available in my area knowing that the CC is not available in all areas yet. Charter CSR gave me a unanimous YES response. So after a few more checking, I finally decided to buy the TV. I immediately phoned Charter to have a tech come in and install the CC. To my surprise, when the tech came in on the scheduled appt, he didn't have a CC with him. He said Charter is still "testing" the CC and will not be available for some time. After this, every time I call Charter to ask about the CC, they kept telling me different things with regards to the CC availability. I noted those reasons and ended up with a list of about 10 reasons. From simple reason like "its still being tested because it is not compatible with our system" to some outrageous ones like "if its not available in your area, it will never ever be". So after more than a month of calling Charter and getting all these lame reasonings, I decided to bring the battle to a different court. A day after I got that reason "if its not available yada yada" I decided to put together a letter to the City Franchising Authority. I explained to them the whole predicament and listed all the reasons I was told for not having the CC available and hinted in the letter that they are merely making excuses so as not to give me the CC. I told them there seems to be an agenda by Charter to prevent customers from ever securing CCs. I quoted the FCC mandate requiring cable companies to offer the CC device as early as mid-2004. I ended the letter with a demand of cancelling Charter's franchise from the City because of being dishonest with their customers yada yada yada.

About a week after my letter to the Franchising Authority, I decided to call Charter again to inquire about CC availability. To my surprise, the lady that answers me said "YES WE DO HAVE IT!". I was excited but of course I was doubtful sensing deja vu from the time I was deciding to buy the TV. I then inquired how long they've had this CC device available in my area. She said, "OH WEVE HAD IT FOR A LONG TIME NOW...". So I then had her schedule an install for me. Again to my surprise, she told me she was gonna upgrade me to the HDTV Tier for FREE and have the tech install my CC for free (costs $35 to "roll out the tech truck" as per charter). Of course I was still doubtful that this will finally be it. Never believed it to be real until the tech came in and actually installed the CC. I then asked him, so you've been installing these new CCs quite a bit lately? He said YES, I AM ACTUALLY THE ONLY TECH THAT DOES CC INSTALLS BUT YES, BEEN INSTALLING THIS NEW DEVICE QUITE OFTEN RECENTLY. I asked him how long they've had this CC available in my area and he said it's been a while he can't remember anymore.

Bottomline is your Cable Co will deliberately LIE to you just to keep you away from a CC. Know your rights. Cable companies apply for and are granted a franchise or license to operate at a particular city. That's why only 1 cable co. monopolizes one city. In line with the title of the thread. When your Cable Co is giving you hell and keeping you from getting a CC installed, give em back hell by writing to your Franchising Authority. It doesn't take a genius to conclude that had it not been for the letter I wrote to our City Franchising Auth, I would still be CC-less and still is yet to enjoy the uber improved digital/analog/hdtv cable tuning capability that is built into my TV.

My qualm now is that Charter is not sending the channel banner signals properly which is why I don't get the title of the shows I am watching. I can see them for the basic channels 1-69. But not on the upper digital tier signals including HDTV. Sony said that the cable company is probably not passing the show title tags properly if at all. Hopefully I won't have to write to the authorities here hehe.

Do what I did to show your displeasure with having your chain yanked, cancel any premium services you may subscribe to and switch from broadband to DSL for Internet service. Come to find out... DSL is better.

Time Warner's CableCARD policies have cost them more than $75 per month in lost revenue from this soon-to-be former subscriber, once Verizon FIOS becomes available.

What did the $17.00 4-way splitter replace?

A $3.00 4-way splitter. Although now the $17 splitter is not working, so I guess I'm calling Cablevision again.

A $3.00 4-way splitter. Although now the $17 splitter is not working, so I guess I'm calling Cablevision again.

haha, thats what confused me. Your still loosing 7db on each output, wether its a 3.00 splitter or a 17.00 splitter.
Your signal might be borderline which would explain why it comes and goes with natural signal fluctuation. Trying to get that tv on a 2-way by some sort of reconfiguration might do the trick. ( of course you sholdnt have to do that much work to get your cable working. :) )

Right, this is exactly what I did. I got rid of broadband Internet service and switched to DSL so I could dedicate the cable to just digital/analog video. From the ground block I use a 2-way splitter where each leg incurs a -3.5 dB insertion loss. One leg goes to my PDP w/CableCARD and the other leg is connected to a 3-way splitter. The three-way splitter has one -3.5 dB and two -7.5 dB legs. I have connected my 2nd HD-ready CRT-TV w/SA8300HD-DVR to the leg with -3.5 dB insertion loss and (2) analog TVs to the legs with -7.5 dB insertion loss.

The other critical factor is to be sure to use RG-6 coax cable for DTV's.

Seldenpat, you may need another cable line run from the pole outside. Especially when using Firewire for recording. I had to force my cable co to run a second line in because of all the signal errors and failure I was having and what a difference it made.

One line is split between the two Firewired setups.

The other line is for Net access and two analog only sets (though they can easily support HD viewing. Firewire is not stable through them).

Got mine installed about 4 weeks ago from Comcast, but as expected the cablecard didn't work at the initial install. The tech came, installed the cablecard, mentioned that it could take a while to update and left. Though after 5 minutes the update was completed but no paid digital tier was viewable, only analog and HD local channels. I requested another truck roll, which suprisingly came the next day, on a Saturday, but the results was unsuccesful. I was told my signal level were too low, preventing the cablecard to be authorized, a line tech was scheduled to improve my signal levels. After 2 weeks I'm still waiting for a line tech to fix my signal levels issue. I'm getting a little impatient here but I figure since they credited me for a month, I could wait another week to blow things off, out proportion. But like everybody else here I'm not giving up until this cablecard works!

Matt/Optivity/Coffee...

Thanks for the advice. I forgot that a 4-way was -7 and a 2 way was -3.5. Big difference. Although, if they can do something to boost the signal from the street, I may be OK, since it comes and goes.

Hi All,

I'm new to this forum, but have reviewed many of the past posts and have learned a lot. Thanks to all!

Had a CC installed in my Sharp LC37D5U last Tuesday. I'm with Comcast in the Detroit area.

I seem to be receiving all of the digital and premium channels I'm supposed to be getting, but not certain that all is well with the CC, a Motorola, ver: 04.05.

My questions:

1. Since the card was installed the set comes up on a random channel after being powered off. Is this normal???? (Comcast is supposed to be researching this for me!)

2. Shouldn't the major (NBC, ABC, CBS, etc.) HD channels be "mapped" to their normal network channel assignments (ie, 2, 4, 7, etc.) rather than having to be accessed as 231, 232, .. etc.?

3. I'm able to find much on-screen info about the card (Unit address, ECM PID ...) but have not found anything that seems to be the firmware level and date. Am I missing something?

4. Since the card was installed, I've received no updates to my built-in TVGOS. Is the card causing this. (I still have my cable connected to the analog tuner for this purpose.)

TIA for any help.

Dave

1) Not normal on my equipment.
2) Channels should be the same as with your company's cable box.
3) I think that's the 4.05 you mentioned.
4) One thought: Are you on digital simulcast in your area? If so, Comcast needs to map a duplicate Guide data host channel (usually PBS) as analog. If all your basic channels are "digital cable", the Guide data is not present. Comcast is well aware of this issue and has an agreement to work with Gemstar on it. Comcast is about to test this setup on my equipment in the Chicago area, probably next week.

A less likely possibility is that your account is set for analog, but your CARD is mistakenly provisioned as ADS and can only see the digital versions of channels. (This actually happened to me.)

1) Not normal on my equipment.
2) Channels should be the same as with your company's cable box.
3) I think that's the 4.05 you mentioned.
4) One thought: Are you on digital simulcast in your area? If so, Comcast needs to map a duplicate Guide data host channel (usually PBS) as analog. If all your basic channels are "digital cable", the Guide data is not present. Comcast is well aware of this issue and has an agreement to work with Gemstar on it. Comcast is about to test this setup on my equipment in the Chicago area, probably next week.

A less likely possibility is that your account is set for analog, but your CARD is mistakenly provisioned as ADS and can only see the digital versions of channels. (This actually happened to me.)

PhillyC,

Thanks for the response -

Re: 2 - That's the case, so I'm probably stuck with it. (If I can get the TVGOS working, I can probably play some mapping games there.)

Re: 3 - I figured that was the hardware rev. level, and there is no date given.

Re: 4 - You're probably right - Comcast maps a "digital" version of PBS to channel 6 which is the stanndard analog PBS cable for me. The cable card provides no analog channels. Just this afternoon I moved on OTA antenna to the analog cable input to see if the TVGOS will load OTA. I'll let you know tomorrow.

Dave

Seldenpat, you may need another cable line run from the pole outside. Especially when using Firewire for recording. I had to force my cable co to run a second line in because of all the signal errors and failure I was having and what a difference it made.

One line is split between the two Firewired setups.

The other line is for Net access and two analog only sets (though they can easily support HD viewing. Firewire is not stable through them).

This isnt typical and is rare. The reason you had to "FORCE" your company to do so it because the taps are set up for each dependant upon subscriber usage. If someone around you subscribes to cable off of your same pole there is a good chance they or you will be split off of a two way splitter because there are no ports left. ( not that it would be your case but that is the thinking.)
If all customers could have 2 drops, why not three? why not four?

The signal coming to any house should be adeqaute with a reasonable number of tv's and services. Its all configuration and amplifiers if needed. If the Orignal Poster resolved the issue by saving 3.5db's then a second drop DEFINATLEY is not that answer.
"I NEEDED 3.5 more db's SO THEY RAN A SECOND DROP."

I guess my point is, informing someone that forcing your company to do something might be an irresponsible piece of advice.

DID we give up?

Not me... I enjoy using a CableCARD with my PDP... the "bad news" is I caved and rented an STB-DVR to use with my 2nd HD-ready TV... the "good news" is I dropped RoadRunner and switched to DSL.

come to find out, my DSL service is better and it costs less

not me...

I have been enjoying some stability from four Cable cards in Sharp LCD's for some time now; whatever the issues, things have improved. Comcast will periodically call if other customers are reporting card issues to check if my cards are working

Signal strength seems to be a key element for good CC operation: cards like a strong signal versus other cableco devices such as an internet modem which seems to be happy with -10 db, and a stb somewhere in between; so balancing the signal distribution within the home properly is very important

Comcast did some tweaking at the head end which also helped card issues with some TV brands, including Sony

Sharp came out and did a firmware update to my LC-45GX6U which was intended to address card issues, but that made no difference

my cableco offered a S/A 8300 DVR for all my troubles even though they are not deployed yet in my area: this is a SARA box and the HDMI output works: very nice stb

still prefer the simplicity and PQ of the card

Your experience basically mirrors mine... minus the (3) additional CableCARDs. :)

I have to admit the convenience of an HD-DVR is a BIG + ;)

On occasion I'll connect the SA8300HD-DVR --> HDMI --> PDP so I can enjoy watching HD recorded programs played back on my PDP. :)

The only problem is I have to get up off the couch to set things up. :D

Comcast came to my friend's house to CC his new Sharp 37 Aquos. After two hours of struggle and head end chat a complete and utter failure. Either Comcast, at least here in eastern CT, or the cable cards are simply not ready for prime time over a year after the mandate. Pretty shameful, it seems to me.

OK, here's the good news...

Cablevision came on Saturday and checked the signal and confirmed that it was a little on the weak side. He changed a bunch of connectors which minimally improved the signal. Finally, he went outside and found that the cables coming into the house were not in good shape (my cables run under ground). He replaced all the cables from the street to the house and now I have a significant improvement in signal strength with the same internal cabling configuration. All stations come in perfectly. The additional benefit is that it seems to have improved my Internet throughput by about 50%.

Bad news is that they still have not done anything regarding the digital and recording flags being switched off for premium channels, so premiums are off limits reccording from my Sharp. Not a big deal, since I still have two firewire boxes that work perfectly.

I'll keep pushing them!

I have a Sharp LC-37D5U and Time Warner in Rochester, NY has been out (4) times with (4) different cableCARDs and I still can not get HBO and Showtime. The last (2) cards were supposedly pre loaded at the office and worked on a Sony. So, they say it must be my set. The 3rd card CP info inidicated the powerkey status as ready, the only card that did. The current 4th card is not ready. I also get weird stations when I turn on the set, ie. not the last station I had when I switched off last time. I also get some similar operation if I leave the CC out. So, maybe there is something wrong with the Sharp. Has anyone successfully installed a CC in Rochester, NY on a Sharp LC-37D5U or similar set and got the premium channels? So far, I spoke with Sharp about (3) times. Each has a different procedure to install the CC (power off, power on) the 3rd guy was just rude and said it's the cableco's fault. I am trying to find someone out there that knows this stuff. It would seem that based upon status results under certain condition if certain procedures were followed that one could quickly get to the root cause.
Thanks in advance,
Mike

While your device status is "Self Verified" it is on the "CableLabs Certified/Verified/Self Verified Device List." (http://www.cablelabs.com/udcp/downloads/OC_PNP.pdf) :confused:

I called Sharp and they are setting up a service call to try replacing the digital tuner board. I will update all when appropriate. The service call is at least a week out.
Mike

Comcast (this time a different tech with a different cable card) returned to my friend's house and after a lot of telephone time with hsi head end, got everything to work ok. Of course Comcast got him for an expensive digital package since he could not receive anything "in the clear" over his expanded basic cable line. Can't be a signal strength issue since all was fine with the card (He says his Sharp shows a 60 signal level, but he will improve with new RG6 cable and an amp.) I wonder if when he took the Comcast internet connection package they blocked him from getting any digital/HD normally unencrypted TV signal. Anyone guess?

Back on 8/14

After 3 days of fretting, and calling Sharp and Comcast here in Chicago. Everything sorted itself out, and my CableCard is working. The TV Guide OnScreen is working, everything is downloaded. The HD stuff looks amazing. But boy do those comcast operators know nothing about cablecards. But thanks to these threads, I've learned a lot.

Hi Neitzl -

Is your TVGOS still work with a CableCard?

I live in the Detroit area, have a Sharp LC37D5U on Comcast cable. Had a cablecard installed a week ago and have had no TVGOS downloads since.

All else seems to be working fine with the card.

I'm glad to see that you are all sticking with your determination to receive your cable premium channel via cablecard. This is the only way that all of the future users of digital cable will be able to depend on this option. You are causing the industry to solve the problem.

I admire everyones persistence and dedication to the cable card. I believe that the future is bright for the cable card concept. I think it would be naive to not suspect the cable company to be the real problem for cable card transmission. In the end it always comes down to $$$.

I am recieving my SonyXBR960 tonight and have decided to go with a cable box and wait until the CC issues are resolved. But believe me, once they are resolved I will be the first on e returning my $7(rental) a month box.

Good Luck CC soldiers!!!

You should drop the box and switch to a CableCARD. The "CC soldiers" need all the support they can get. As CableCARD users begin to understand the technology, they will receive their due.

I admire everyones persistence and dedication to the cable card. I believe that the future is bright for the cable card concept. I think it would be naive to not suspect the cable company to be the real problem for cable card transmission. In the end it always comes down to $$$.

I am recieving my SonyXBR960 tonight and have decided to go with a cable box and wait until the CC issues are resolved. But believe me, once they are resolved I will be the first on e returning my $7(rental) a month box.

Good Luck CC soldiers!!!

If people who understand cablecards and get displays that support cablecards don't push cablecards, then you will never reach the point where..."the CC issues are resolved". Therefore, you will never return your $7 a month box since your cableco will never work to resolve your problems.

If you believe that the future is bright for the cablecard concept and it's all going to resolve itself, then you must still put cookies and milk by the fireplace at Christmas. :rolleyes:

This company may help further the deployment of CableCARD,

http://www.cabilcorp.com/NewsFlash-20051007.htm
Cabil Corp

My 2 Cents !!
I monitor this thread , and it`s been a while since I have posted so here`s an update about my CC in my almost new Sony "XS955".
CC`s are far from perfect , we all know that :(
However , we must continue to be stuborn about this and not relent to "boxes" .
If you have a DCR /TV then by all means get a CC not a box.
Cable Co`s , don`t have a clue as to what goes on , as long as they get paid.
CC`s are cheaper than boxes , so get a CC and deal with it and save the space for another piece of gear ! :D
I have had my problems just like the rest , but here is what I have done.
1st , Don`t be affraid to reset the CC by way of your tv`s user menu , you`ll have to reset a few things , but so what !!
2nd , Buy yourself a "broadband" signal booster ( or amp )+ ( must be 2 way compatible).
3rd , Do call your Cable Co and complain , I`m sure you have and maybe it will fall on deaf ears , but you might get thru , and get your point across ( I have not had any luck in that department , yet ).
But if we give in and say NO to CC then we will be to blam for there failure , we must go on and be very confidident that it will work out in the end , and it will. It has to.
I , have to laugh when my Dad tells me " Gary there talking about the cable co on public access " , I really get a kick out of some of the things they talk about , boxes .... NO CC`s talk or help.
That has to change , people are so used to there "kind little boxes" that take up space , even when they have a CC ready TV :confused:
FIGHT for whats RIGHT and CC`s are RIGHT !!
Sorry didn`t mean to preach , YES I DID :D
Gary

Does anyone know if channels 1010 and 1013 (HD locals in Rochester, NY) should come in if you have a QAM tuner and without a box or cableCARD?
Mike

On a whim, Friday, I believe, I sent an e-mail to Wilt from Cablevision. He's a VP that peruses the Yahoo CV group and has helped me with some problems in the past. I explained my problem with the recording and optical flags and he responded back a day later saying that he, or someone from his team would be getting back to me.

FF to today. I get a call from the wife at home saying that someone from CV called about a problem I reported and that he wanted to run some tests. He had her run through the Cablecard menu and read of some ID numbers. That was this morning. She just called back at 3:30 saying that he called and thinks he fixed the problem. Sure enough, I tell her to go to HBO-HD and check the recording flag and both the Digital audio and firewire recording flags are set to OK!!! Go through the rest of the premiums and all are set to OK!!!

Kudos from me to Wilt and his Cablevision team!!!

To quote Kevin Costner from the Untouchables...

"NEVER GIVE UP THE FIGHT!!!"

Interesting story with no end in sight yet... :(

I had my TV on order (Panny th-50px50u). It was supposed to have been to my house last friday. So I scheduled my cable guy (Comcast) to show up at that time. I had specifically ordered a cable card.

Well, last minute I found my TV was on perpetual back order.

Anyrate, the cable guy shows up, and much to my chagrin, he's a contractor, and it's his 2nd day on the job. Oh well.

So, he checks the line at the house, no signal. Climbs the pole, hooks up my wire. Comes back down, checks it again, weak signal. Without blinking, he says, gotta run new cable from the pole!!!!

I was quite happy with this. So I have a dedicated plug on the pole, and fresh wire into my house.

He hooks the rest of my cable up, inside, and is getting ready to leave. I say, I ordered a CC. He's like, Oh, that's right. Hold on.

He comes back from his truck, hands me the CC, and says, "Turn off the TV before you plug it in. Thanks!" and he drove away.

After reading this thread, I was a bit confused. Happy I have a good strong feed, but sad I have no tv and confused that I was sitting there with my CC in my hands.

Oh well, now I gotta wait till my TV get's here to test it all out. Untill then, I'm stuck with a STB on my older TV.

:)

After reading this thread, I was a bit confused. Happy I have a good strong feed, but sad I have no tv and confused that I was sitting there with my CC in my hands.

This might be the best CC story yet! It reminds me of that commercial with people sitting seemingly suspended a few feet off the ground driving down the street in invisible cars. Just plug your CC into your invisible TV and see if it stays there.

Then see if you can get it authorized.

Thanks for the laugh. :)

This might be the best CC story yet! It reminds me of that commercial with people sitting seemingly suspended a few feet off the ground driving down the street in invisible cars. Just plug your CC into your invisible TV and see if it stays there.

Then see if you can get it authorized.

Thanks for the laugh. :)

I have to give up. Running 2 CC on Sharp and Hitachi Adelphia (Buffalo, NY region) can't get either to work consistantly. This weekend place must be haunted. Worked for a month well and now is totally fixed on "Loading new Firmware" Stuck for days. Hits from Adelphia just starts the endless cycle over again. This weekends appointment is to try again but they are giving up and sending the tech with a box to replace the CC's. Unfortunatley the Sharp is wall mounted with hidden cables and can't support the box (for aesthetic reasons) so will have to abandon the HD and premium there. This is crazy? Is this crazy?

rspivak

since you have no alternative for the Sharp that is wall mounted, why not keep the card for that set and insist they resolve the issue?

they are mandated by the FCC to make the card work: it sounds like you need new cards since the ones you have are not taking the firmware update

it might help if you put your issue in writing to the cableco: they are required to report Cable card complaints to the FCC

I have to give up.

No, you do not. Yes, it's aggravating --- It took three months to reslove my CC problems, but it DID happen.

As mark said, put it in writing --- to the cable company AND the FCC AND any local regulating authority. Do not let them off the hook. The FCC mandate was in place for July 2004. Why should you lose the functionality of your digital TV's?

Since your cards worked before, the cableco changed something. It's their fault. Make them fix it.

Right, and be prepared to give up some more of your personal time (like you have nothing better to do) to accommodate their four-hour appointment window. :rolleyes:

I've searched this thread & see very little mentioned on the fee charged for CC. I have Comcast & have called 3 times & written twice concerning fees. I've also checked Comcast's web site (says no charge for CC). Two calls I made stated that there would be an additional $8.95/month fee. A third said $10. Two said the "install fee would be $15.95, another said $25. An e-mail reply I received said the fee was "the same as a STB, so I should get the box". Now, I ALREADY HAVE the 6412 DVR, I just want to ADD to my service (bedroom TV) a CC. Yet it's more? How much I'm not sure.

The search I did on this thread lists Keenan discussing "no charge if on primary, $6.95 if not". I don't know what that means, I already have a cable outlet in my bedroom. Does that help?

Anyone willing to share their cost/fee for this service would be appreciated.

Per the Comcast "FAQ's" (http://www.comcast.com/Support/Corp1/FAQ/FaqDetail_2651.html)

"There is no additional charge for CableCARD service above what you currently pay for Digital Cable service (NOTE: additional outlet charges for programming may apply)."

You may want to bring this web page to your local provider's attention.

Time Warner has no installation fee and charges $1.75 per month for their CableCARD.

Per the Comcast "FAQ's" (http://www.comcast.com/Support/Corp1/FAQ/FaqDetail_2651.html)

"There is no additional charge for CableCARD service above what you currently pay for Digital Cable service (NOTE: additional outlet charges for programming may apply)."

You may want to bring this web page to your local provider's attention.

Time Warner has no installation fee and charges $1.75 per month for their CableCARD.

But what are "additional outlet charges"? I already have Comcast digital plus tier (one 6412 DVR set top box).

If I buy a new HDTV that is cable card capable for another location in my house, does that mean the card is free, but I have to pay for having digital plus service come to another TV (a 2nd TV) in the house?

Not clear from the FAQ.

But what are "additional outlet charges"? I already have Comcast digital plus tier (one 6412 DVR set top box).

If I buy a new HDTV that is cable card capable for another location in my house, does that mean the card is free, but I have to pay for having digital plus service come to another TV (a 2nd TV) in the house?

Not clear from the FAQ.
In the SF bay area for Comcast, the CC is "free", so to speak. There will be a charge of $6.95 listed as "Additional Digital Outlet" on the bill. If the CC is the only equipment and the only hookup you use from Comcast(no STBs or additional outlets) you don't have any additional charges, it's part of the digital package price.

So, in your case, you would be paying for an "Additional Digital Outlet" which would be for the CC. As I mentioned, in the SF bay area, this charge is $6.95 per month.

In the SF bay area for Comcast, the CC is "free", so to speak. There will be a charge of $6.95 listed as "Additional Digital Outlet" on the bill. If the CC is the only equipment and the only hookup you use from Comcast(no STBs or additional outlets) you don't have any additional charges, it's part of the digital package price.

So, in your case, you would be paying for an "Additional Digital Outlet" which would be for the CC. As I mentioned, in the SF bay area, this charge is $6.95 per month.Sounds like a "rip-off" to me. Even worse than Time Warner. Make the switch to DSL and show them who's the boss!

Sounds like a "rip-off" to me. Even worse than Time Warner. Make the switch to DSL and show them who's the boss!
Always have had DSL, unless they give me HSI for free, I don't want it.. :)

I all want from my cable company is cable TV, no phone, no VOD, no internet and whatever else they want to try and sell me.

Get Internet phone service, forget about the analog modem. In this day of VPN it may not matter... but sometimes it can come in handy... Calling cards cost about 3 cents per minute for long distance, which is pretty hard to beat.

Get Internet phone service, forget about the analog modem. In this day of VPN it may not matter... but sometimes it can come in handy... Calling cards cost about 3 cents per minute for long distance, which is pretty hard to beat.
Being that my DSL is with SBC I'm not sure they would even have internet phone service, and with DSL, phone service is already there. 3/mbps DL plus phone runs me about $40-45 a month.

Maybe I'm not sure what you're saying.. :confused: :)

I'm giving up. Cablecard is so very not ready for primetime. After 3 cards in my Sharp LC32D5U with TWC in Brooklyn, many freezes, TVGOS problems and now two weeks without cable at all, I'm getting the HD/DVR. Even the tech who came out from TWC this last time admitted that he had given up on HIS Cablecard and was going back to the box. I'm not a soldier for anything, man. I just want to watch tv.

I just received the following reply from Comcast;

Dear Carl,


Thank you for contacting us through our website.

Adding the CableCARD to an additional set falls under the same category as adding an additional converter, only the charge for the additional equipment would incur. In this case, a second CableCARD would be an additional $8.90/month to your current cable statement.

I hope this resolves this issue to your satisfaction. If there is anything else we can help you with, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Thank you for choosing Comcast.

Sincerely,
Quinton
Comcast Customer Care Specialist

Ok..i've just read the entire thread..... :eek:

I'm a little confused still..... Are the cable company's "allowed" to flag each and every channel as "never record" and not allow CC renters to record any content they pay for?

I've been pulling my hair out trying to record regular broadcast ABC/CBS programs with my HTPC via firewire from My MitsuWD62525....and all along its because TimeWarner Houston has put do not allow record flags on each and every channel i PAY FOR.

I read in one of the posts that the cableco can change which broadcast flags are sent out specific to each CC...anyone have experience in this...because if I pay for cable TV....I would like the ability to record what I PAY FOR.....

:mad:

Ok..i've just read the entire thread..... :eek:

I'm a little confused still..... Are the cable company's "allowed" to flag each and every channel as "never record" and not allow CC renters to record any content they pay for?

I've been pulling my hair out trying to record regular broadcast ABC/CBS programs with my HTPC via firewire from My MitsuWD62525....and all along its because TimeWarner Houston has put do not allow record flags on each and every channel i PAY FOR.

I read in one of the posts that the cableco can change which broadcast flags are sent out specific to each CC...anyone have experience in this...because if I pay for cable TV....I would like the ability to record what I PAY FOR.....

:mad:

I am not sure what the actual legislation requires, but if you read my posts, the VP who I contacted wanted to make sure that the recording flags were set properly on my CC installation and had his team contact ME. There was no appointment that I had to set up with a tech...it was all done over the phone with my wife who is clearly technologically challenged. After three calls that they made to her, I came back from work and all recording flags were set properly and I'm able to record via firewire. Although I can believe that the VP may just be doing it for customer service, there were probably a lot of unseen manhours spent to resolve my specific issue which may or may not have been due to compliance.

Regardless, I would suggest that you search your local forum and other forums. I first found out about the VP contact from the Yahoo message boards. There may be a contact that make things happen in your situation.

The last thing I will say is that I'm recording clearly with D-VHS (Mitsubishi and JVC). I don't know if the flags are, or are required to be, set up for PC's.

Being that my DSL is with SBC I'm not sure they would even have internet phone service, and with DSL, phone service is already there. 3/mbps DL plus phone runs me about $40-45 a month.

Maybe I'm not sure what you're saying.. :confused: :)Right, I meant VoIP using cable not telephone. My DSL supports both analog phone and Internet service.

I'm a little confused still..... Are the cable company's "allowed" to flag each and every channel as "never record" and not allow CC renters to record any content they pay for?My cable provider, Albany Time Warner, disables my TVs optical digital interface for all premium movie and HD channels except my HD locals. I cannot get them to change their policy. "seldenpat" had success getting his copy protection modified, hopefully you will too. I believe this is strictly a head end policy determined by each local cable company, as content providers are not using the broadcast flag yet.

In another thread on this forum I was advised by an unidentified poster that the CableCARD is, in his view, a "2-way" device. That is not of course what I have read in other areas of the forum. I think the difference of opinion is merely semantic, but frankly I don't know enough about this issue to have a truly informed opinion. Here are a few quotes from our discussion:

He wrote: "I believe that the CableCard requires two-way access. I also have a ChannelPlus distribution amp, and it would not allow my HD cable box to authorize unless I bypassed the amp."

He wrote: " ... tell me how ... a CableCard verifies non-basic access if it's not two-way? "

I replied: "As for 'two-way,' since the cable companies specifically state that 2-way services such as VOD, interactive guides, etc., do not work with the CableCARD, I made the ... assumption that cable cards are not 2-way ... "

He wrote: "Depending on the version of CableCard (you probably have v. 1 since I don't think v. 2 is out yet), it does little except Authorize the channels that you've paid for. That's its whole reason for being. The FCC mandated that the cable companies TV makers must accept the "standard" so that cable companies couldn't lock customers into their services (mostly ones besides basic TV) by requiring a STB to watch TV. The cable companies don't like that and knobbled the first standard so that it provided *no* services except Authorize. ... It is still two-way, since the authorization database is back at the head-end. "

What's the situation? Are cable cards in some way actually "2-way"?

What's the situation? Are cable cards in some way actually "2-way"?

there are no 2 way cards deployed at this time anywhere

hopefully someday...

Right, I meant VoIP using cable not telephone. My DSL supports both analog phone and Internet service.


I haven't even checked to see if SBC has internet phone, the fact is, I use very little phone service, I may use it less than 5 times a month, I really only have it for the litleDSL connection. It's also convenient for the Dish and DirecTV DVRs I have as well. I use a $25 a month cell for all my phone needs.

Hi everyone. I'm a newbie so I've got a dumb question. How does the dvr work with the cablecard? I assumed the card replaced the entire box so I didn't think you could have both. Is that not accurate? Thanks.

The only way to use both a DVR & CableCARD with the same TV is to split the coax cable and run half to the STB-DVR and the other half to the TV w/CableCARD. Connect the DVR to one of the TVs input interfaces (e.g. component or HDMI) and from the TV select either antenna to view the program source using the CableCARD or component/HDMI to access the DVR. This method enables full-time access to the input source for your DVR to record and play back programs as well as access any other service a standard STB provides. Some Forum members do this and seem to be pleased with the set-up.

Okay, after months of solid breakup free service via CC, I received a firmware upgrade. The upgrade continued to fail and I found a firmware upgrade for my Panny PX500 to resolve the issue. However, now I'm missing some of my HD channels again! I have literally had nearly 10 service calls to my home specifically for the CC now. It's maddening. I was given a new card after the firmware failed and I suspect is was misprovisioned since I noticed the tech read off the cablecard ID wrong to the head end. I corrected him and he read it wrong again! Then when I asked him to reread it he did so, but they never confirmed their numbers matched.

I've gotten nowhere calling TWC and asking for them to confirm what CC ID and Host ID they have on record for my account, and I am not interested in staying home again so a tech can come out and fool around and call the people I should be able to speak to directly. Complete incompetence whenever I call. Last gal didn't even know how to send a hit to the card and acted as though she'd never heard of the "call to start service" screen.

Anyone have any other ideas what might cause some channels to pop up the "start service" screen? I can get them for a couple seconds before the screen comes up so I suspect it's an account issue (again!) I'm near giving up and just using my DVR for all...

Sorry for ranting.

Okay, after months of solid breakup free service via CC, I received a firmware upgrade. The upgrade continued to fail and I found a firmware upgrade for my Panny PX500 to resolve the issue. However, now I'm missing some of my HD channels again! I have literally had nearly 10 service calls to my home specifically for the CC now. It's maddening. I was given a new card after the firmware failed and I suspect is was misprovisioned since I noticed the tech read off the cablecard ID wrong to the head end. I corrected him and he read it wrong again! Then when I asked him to reread it he did so, but they never confirmed their numbers matched.

I've gotten nowhere calling TWC and asking for them to confirm what CC ID and Host ID they have on record for my account, and I am not interested in staying home again so a tech can come out and fool around and call the people I should be able to speak to directly. Complete incompetence whenever I call. Last gal didn't even know how to send a hit to the card and acted as though she'd never heard of the "call to start service" screen.

Anyone have any other ideas what might cause some channels to pop up the "start service" screen? I can get them for a couple seconds before the screen comes up so I suspect it's an account issue (again!) I'm near giving up and just using my DVR for all...

Sorry for ranting.

Cory,

I was having that problem with my card in addition to the copy flags. Drove my wife crazy. I don't know the technicalities involved in setting one of these up, but the quote from my contact from Cablevision was, "Thing is these cablecards can be somewhat stubborn to "mate" sometimes, but he (the IT guy) got it nailed." That just makes me think that it's not always the card (which they swap out too freely) since they're really not "plug and play"

Your problem may be on the back-end like mine and TWC hasn't properly "mated" the cards, whatever that means.

I hope you have success!

Have a weird thing happening.... just got a pioneer 50A5 (just like a pio 5050 except all inputs are integrated into the TV instead of having a media reciever).

Have Comcast and their cablecard....

The CableCard has been working on and off...

this is what happens..... I would be watching an HD program (INHD1 or INHD2 or any local in HD or even ESPNHD) and all of a sudden the picture goes to black... then 10 sec... later my TV shuts off and the Green light on the front of the keeps blinking.....

this only happens when i watch HD stations.....

and for me to temporarily fix it i have to shut off the TV, unplug the power cord and then plug it back in and turn it on.... then it will work for mabye 5 minutues or mabye 5 hours....

Could this be the CableCard itself? Or an incompatibility issue with the Pioneer and the CC? this only happens when i use the CC. Does not happen with a STB or DVD player...
only when I use the CC.

Very Very strange....

Hope someone can help?


thanks, technoreid

Have a weird thing happening.... just got a pioneer 50A5 (just like a pio 5050 except all inputs are integrated into the TV instead of having a media reciever).

Have Comcast and their cablecard....

The CableCard has been working on and off...

this is what happens..... I would be watching an HD program (INHD1 or INHD2 or any local in HD or even ESPNHD) and all of a sudden the picture goes to black... then 10 sec... later my TV shuts off and the Green light on the front of the keeps blinking.....

Hope someone can help?


thanks, technoreid


Hi technoreid -

Does your Pioneer manual tell you what the blinking green light indicates? If you have to, contact Pioneer to find out. It may indicate that f/w is being downloaded to your CC.

If that is the case, shutting off the power will only complicate things!

My CC seems to be functioning Ok in my Sharp except for updating the TVGOS.

Let's not give up yet!

Hi,
This is an update to my cablecard woes with the Sony KDF-E50A10 purchased in August. With annoyances ranging from having to reset it daily to no channel tags and also missing stations I was ready to throw it out the door.

I emailed Adelphia tech support early September and asked them to forward the email to the engineer at the dispatch in Colorado Springs as yet another visit by a service tech was not going to be allowed. They came, stared at the card diag screen and left. Nothing changed.

Anyhow I guess they finally learned how to program the thing correctly since I've now got the channel labels, all the channels and haven't had to reset it for days now. Hope this is a trend. There is hope if you are having issues, just don't expect the techs to do anything else than bring you a new card, which is often not the cure.

I recently put in a SA8300HD with IEEE 1394 to replace a SA3250HD with IEEE1394. It is connected via HDMI.

I can tell you under no uncertain terms the picture via cable card is still night and day better than the SA8300HD via HDMI live on the same channel.

Even if your cableco has issue with cablecards and you go through the frustration, I would pay the extra money to have a stb and cablecard in the interim until they get the cablecard fixed as the difference (providing you have display that can resolve it) is stunning.

Cory,

I was having that problem with my card in addition to the copy flags. Drove my wife crazy. I don't know the technicalities involved in setting one of these up, but the quote from my contact from Cablevision was, "Thing is these cablecards can be somewhat stubborn to "mate" sometimes, but he (the IT guy) got it nailed." That just makes me think that it's not always the card (which they swap out too freely) since they're really not "plug and play"

Your problem may be on the back-end like mine and TWC hasn't properly "mated" the cards, whatever that means.

I hope you have success!

Thanks for the reply. Indeed, a proper "mating" was the problem on mine. They completely removed the card from my account and rebuilt the account, followed by 10 hits in a row (just for good measure). This did the trick! No card swap required. It was just a matter of getting someone competent on the head end to assist. All is well now. Nice thing is, I asked for a discount for my troubles, and got a $33 credit for my $1.75 card not working. Can't beat that.

By the time they get the one way CableCard working properly it will be obsolete. As I understand it, there is a 2 way CableCard in the making that will all but eliminate the need for a 1 way card. A 2 way card will allow you to access all of your cable companies features just like the set top box. There is a slight glitch though....the 2 way card will not fit in the same slot as the 1 way card currently being used.

By the time they get the one way CableCard working properly it will be obsolete. As I understand it, there is a 2 way CableCard in the making that will all but eliminate the need for a 1 way card. A 2 way card will allow you to access all of your cable companies features just like the set top box. There is a slight glitch though....the 2 way card will not fit in the same slot as the 1 way card currently being used.

Is there a place with more detail on this information?
Are HD sets being produced to except these new 2 way cards? And what of the current CC slots, any adapter in the works?

Is there a place with more detail on this information?
Are HD sets being produced to except these new 2 way cards? And what of the current CC slots, any adapter in the works?A good source regarding CableCARD/Open Cable information is available at Cable Television Laboratories, Inc. (http://www.cablelabs.com/news/pr/2005/05_pr_digeo_ocap_101905.html)

Current DCR (digital cable ready) TVs are equipped with one-way CableCARD slots. One-way CableCARDs enable an authorized host node to receive an encrypted digital signal from a cable provider without using an external set top box. CableCARDs are preferred by videophiles (e.g. "CableCARDs - A Primer" (http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/CableCARDprimer.php)) because they enable the TV's superior internal tuner/scalar to be used instead of the 2nd rate electronics found in a cable provider's generic STB.

Two-way CableCARD capable TVs should be available sometime during 2006 - 2007. Two-way CableCARDs will be compatible with TVs equipped with a one-way CableCARD slot, and will provide one-way service for those devices.

On 10/31 Optivity posted:

Two-way CableCARD capable TVs should be available sometime during 2006 - 2007. Two-way CableCARDs will be compatible with TVs equipped with a one-way CableCARD slot, and will provide one-way service for those devices.

Does this mean that the current versions of one-way CableCard equipped HDTV's can never be upgraded to allow two-way CC operation?

On 10/31 Optivity posted:

Two-way CableCARD capable TVs should be available sometime during 2006 - 2007. Two-way CableCARDs will be compatible with TVs equipped with a one-way CableCARD slot, and will provide one-way service for those devices.

Does this mean that the current versions of one-way CableCard equipped HDTV's can never be upgraded to allow two-way CC operation?
Not without some internal hardware upgrade/changeout. Unlikely to happen IMO.

On 10/31 Optivity posted:

Two-way CableCARD capable TVs should be available sometime during 2006 - 2007. Two-way CableCARDs will be compatible with TVs equipped with a one-way CableCARD slot, and will provide one-way service for those devices.

Does this mean that the current versions of one-way CableCard equipped HDTV's can never be upgraded to allow two-way CC operation?
Not without some internal hardware upgrade/changeout. Unlikely to happen IMO.
Agreed, full two way communications supporting DVR, PPV, on-Demand and EPG services will require a TV that supports two-way CableCARD technology and are equipped with something akin to "dual" NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuners. TV manufactures are designing DCR devices equipped to take full advantage of the CableCARD Interface 2.0 Specification.

TV's built to the CableCARD Interface 1.0 Specification shall remain one-way.

Not without some internal hardware upgrade/changeout. Unlikely to happen IMO.

Question...

Say you had a Panny Commerical unit... could you just buy a new blade that had a 2-way CC slot?

I don't know if other manuf's have the blades you can plug in...

Might be a neat option!

Question...

Say you had a Panny Commerical unit... could you just buy a new blade that had a 2-way CC slot?

I don't know if other manuf's have the blades you can plug in...

Might be a neat option!
I'm sure that would be possible, not familiar enough with the Panny units, although I did look at them awhile back and did like the commercial/blade aspect of them over the standard consumer units.

Question...

Say you had a Panny Commerical unit... could you just buy a new blade that had a 2-way CC slot?

I don't know if other manuf's have the blades you can plug in...

Might be a neat option!CableCARDs for Panasonic Commercial Monitors will not be an option because these PDPs lack the internal tuner required to support the CableCARD 1.0/2.0 spec.

Agreed, full two way communications supporting DVR, PPV, on-Demand and EPG services will require a TV that supports two-way CableCARD technology and are equipped with something akin to "dual" NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuners. TV manufactures are designing DCR devices equipped to take full advantage of the CableCARD Interface 2.0 Specification.

TV's built to the CableCARD Interface 1.0 Specification shall remain one-way.

Meaning if you buy a $5000 TV now you are sh** out of luck.

I guess in terms of two-way communications... but not for their ability to render a better picture without the extra cost to rent some crappy STB. :rolleyes:

I guess in terms of two-way communications... but not for their ability to render a better picture without the extra cost to rent some crappy STB. :rolleyes:

True, but having a nervous breakdown due to the illiterates at the cable companies is not worth the still to be determined PQ difference. Also, i'm also hearing that using a CC may render your $3000 surround system worthless.

True, but having a nervous breakdown due to the illiterates at the cable companies is not worth the still to be determined PQ difference. Also, i'm also hearing that using a CC may render your $3000 surround system worthless.

Not quite true. I have a cable card and a 50 inch Panasonic Plasma.

There is definitely a major increase in picture quality on standard definition digital channels over the same channels via a set top box.

Secondly, the cable card does not render your surround system worthless, but digital audio out may be disabled (depending on your cable company), on most of the non-broadcast digital channels (i.e, this doesn't effect the broadcast networks that you receive in high def via cable).

In actuality, this would only effect your sound system when you are watching:

a) one of the channels effected by the digital audio disabling caused by the cable company; AND

b) where that channel does broadcast in DD 5.1 (very few); AND

c) where the show you want to watch on that channel is, in fact, being broadcast in DD 5.1 (even less).

Otherwise, if the show is stereo, then you still have the analog out, and there is effectively no difference in sound.

For all broacast high def channels, DD 5.1 works. So you still have your $3,000 sound system for that -- and for DVDs.

Is it annoying? Yes. Should it be this way -- No.

I personally have recently contacted people at Cable Labs about this issue and "THE" guy at Comcast who deals with cable card implementation (VP of digital engineering).

If this is not fixed (at least for Comcast in my area) in 8 weeks or so, I will be very surprised.

Cable cards are great for the Cable MSO's. Now they don't have to purchase the settops from SA and Motorolas' and then lease it to the consumer. The MSO really do not care for STB's because all they are interested in is the monthly subscription fees.

So basically, the consumers are buying the STB now by purchasing the Cable Card ready TV's.

So basically, the consumers are buying the STB now by purchasing the Cable Card ready TV's.

Good news for us consumers. Now we can decide what to purchase rather than have one option provided.

there are no 2 way cards deployed at this time anywhere

hopefully someday...


Cable Cards 2.0 - Coming in 2006
Posted Oct 19, 2005, 6:59 PM ET by Matt Burns
Filed under: Cable TV, Digital TV, Industry, Regulatory

http://www.hdbeat.com/2005/10/19/cable-cards-2-0-coming-in-2006/

This is great news. No, really. I love the idea of Cable Cards but the current version just doesn't do enough for me. Cable Cards 2.0 are on track to be in production by 2006 and that’s when the fun will finally start.

Everyone was excited when Cable Cards where first developed because no one likes that big box from cable. Be honest, I know you don't like that extra silver or black box, but I'm sure that you like the features such as the on-screen guide and On Demand. The current Cable Cards give you the same channels, just not the same cool features, but the new ones will. Flat panel owners have been waiting for this for some time now, it's too bad the current generation Cable Card slots will not except this new equipment.
Now, if they can put a little (little in physical size, big in storage) hard drive in the Cable Card so I can record on to it, then take it to a buddy's house and watch my programming over there, (keep in mind it has to be HD), then, and only then, will I be truly happy.

With a new Samsung 61" DLP set to arrive tomorrow, I'm about to wade into the CC quagmire. I'm hoping keenan's reports of Bay Area experiences holds true and it works out of the box. I've already been told the guide doesn't work and will be eager to discover what other issues might pop up. Maybe I need to program the Comcast number to speed dial right now :) They want to ding me $11.95 for the card with HD options enabled, so that will be the first battle to fight.

I considered holding off on my purchase for a CC 2.0 capable set, but even though they are suggested for next year, my gut says it will be 2 years before we'll see those incorporated in very many sets.

With a new Samsung 61" DLP set to arrive tomorrow, I'm about to wade into the CC quagmire. I'm hoping keenan's reports of Bay Area experiences holds true and it works out of the box. I've already been told the guide doesn't work and will be eager to discover what other issues might pop up. Maybe I need to program the Comcast number to speed dial right now :) They want to ding me $11.95 for the card with HD options enabled, so that will be the first battle to fight.

I considered holding off on my purchase for a CC 2.0 capable set, but even though they are suggested for next year, my gut says it will be 2 years before we'll see those incorporated in very many sets.
I've followed the CC comments in the SF Comcast thread and have one myself and so far there really hasn't been any problems.

One important thing to do is to check and see if the Samsung has the most current firmware for that particular display. As you know, just because it's new and coming to you tomorrow does not mean that there may not have been some FW releases since the unit was initially shipped.

The FW issue was the only problem I had with my CC working correctly. I got a USB key-drive from Mits, updated, and it's worked perfect even since.

I'm guessing that the $11.95 price is because you are only getting the CC and no STB? I pay $9.95 for "DVR Service With HDTV"(Moto 6412) and $6.95 for "Digital Addl Outlet"(CableCARD).

Also of note, Comcast bay area recently encrypted all the HD channels that were previously in the clear. Only the locals are still un-encrypted. Discovery-HD, ESPN-HD and the rest are only available with the respective digital tier subscription.

Let us know how it goes. :)

Also of note, Comcast bay area recently encrypted all the HD channels that were previously in the clear. Only the locals are still un-encrypted. Discovery-HD, ESPN-HD and the rest are only available with the respective digital tier subscription.Does your TV have an optical audio output interface which is connected to a Dolby Digital receiver? If so, have there been any changes to the digital sound output of your TV?

Does your TV have an optical audio output interface which is connected to a Dolby Digital receiver? If so, have there been any changes to the digital sound output of your TV?
As a result of the channels being newly encrypted? No, everything works as it should, analog, SD and HD all have proper audio being passed and handled by the DD receiver(Denon 3805).

When I first got the display, Mits WS73615, and installed the CC I would get audio on the digital channels but have to switch to the analog input on the receiver for the analog channels. This was rectified after replacing a circuit board in the display and since then, everything has worked correctly. This of course had nothing to do with whether the CC was working properly or not, it was purely a Mits issue that was easily and promptly resolved.

I will say that we are pretty lucky here in the SF bay area with Comcast as far as properly functioning equipment, everything has worked pretty much the way it's supposed to. Which is saying a lot when you consider there was/is a fair amount of different systems here when Comcast took over a few years ago. The only current problem is the Phase III Moto boxes have a digital audio issue when using the HDMI port, but a FW upgrade as already been announced to rectify it, and in fact has already been sent out in other parts of the country.

I'm guessing that the $11.95 price is because you are only getting the CC and no STB? I pay $9.95 for "DVR Service With HDTV"(Moto 6412) and $6.95 for "Digital Addl Outlet"(CableCARD).



I have 2 STBs already. The 6412 that sits atop my current Mits 46807 and a SA box for a 27" bedroom TV. The explanation I got for the CC was $6.95 for the added outlet and $5 to program it for HD. Doesn't make sense since I'm already digital tier and HD.

Need to make another phone call to those folks in the AM or just pay them a visit now that PIII boxes are available in my area.

Thanks for the tip on the firmware.

I have 2 STBs already. The 6412 that sits atop my current Mits 46807 and a SA box for a 27" bedroom TV. The explanation I got for the CC was $6.95 for the added outlet and $5 to program it for HD. Doesn't make sense since I'm already digital tier and HD.

Need to make another phone call to those folks in the AM or just pay them a visit now that PIII boxes are available in my area.

Thanks for the tip on the firmware.
I have seen different prices paid in different systems within the bay area. I would definitely ask why the extra HD charge. It doesn't make sense to me either. You might try asking what others are paying in the SF Comcast thread as well.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6472346#post6472346
San Francisco, CA - Comcast - AVS Forum

Had an issue w/ Comcast and my SA CC this past week - since resolved. I'll post it here as an FYI.

Background: I've had CableCard for well over a year now with an early generation Sharp LCD (gd6U). As an early adopter I was the first in my service area. There were the usual start up difficulties but they finally figured out the correct head end provisioning and everything has been (more or less) fine since.

Last week I lost two HD channels (211 and 212 if that matters) with the CC. A simple 'hit' and CC reset didn't resolve the issue. Not only couldn't the CC negotiate those channels, they would partially lock up my Sharp such that only the channel up and down buttons worked on the remote. Comcast couldn't figure it out and started to pull in both Sharp and SA to deal with the problem - fingerpointing was just getting under way. But then I noticed something strange: My STB could receive those two stations but only after a (variable) delay relative to the other channels. That made it seem like an RF issue to me and I pushed Comcast to look into their end a little deeper. They were stumped for a few days.

Long story short... Our Comcast reboots their (DNCS) system every 2 weeks. With the last reboot, those two channels somehow came up on the wrong frequency (they still don't know why). They had manually reset the correct frequency - but what they didn't know was that the IP addresses on the QAM for those channels also came up wrong and needed to be reset. The incorrect IP addresses apparently locked up my CableCard enabled TV set when it attempted to tune in those channels.

In the past 16 or so months that I've been dealing with Comcast I must say that you can tell they are going through a learning experience with all of this. But I have been satisfied in the effort they have provided to give me satisfactory customer service to keep this working.

Timely post, exNSX!

I live in the Detroit area and Comcast is my cable provider. About a month ago I had a cablecard installed in my Sharp lc37d5u - all worked perfectly for about 10 days then all hell broke loose - attempting to tune any digital channel would mess things up so bad (many remote buttons wouldn't work, the digital OTA tuner wouldn't work, etc.) I would have to do a reset to recover.

However, if I remove the card things seem ok. Of course, without the card I can only tune a few digital channels. Comcast here uses ADS so with the card I only get about six analog channels.

My card is Motorola, not SA, but I'm hoping the source of the problem turns out to be something like yours!

I forwarded your post to the Comcast engineer I have been working with. Comcast has been great in trying to get this resolved. Over the last few days I had convinced myself that my Sharp had gone bad. I was thinking of boxing the set up and taking it back to Costco tomorrow until I read your post.

Dave

updates ?

I also have the lc-37d5u with a non working cable card :mad:

updates ?

I also have the lc-37d5u with a non working cable card :mad:


I've given up on the Sharp and am returning it to Costco. See my post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6531719#post6531719

for details.

ND

Interesting comments on the Sharp lc-37d5u & CC (I have one as well). So far mine has worked out well with the CC & Comcast. My only issue has been TVGOS which has never worked properly. Good luck with a new set.

I've given up on the Sharp and am returning it to Costco. See my post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6531719#post6531719

for details.

NDInteresting, given the fact your TV is on Cablelabs list of: "Certified, Verified and Self-Verified Cable Products" (http://www.cablelabs.com/udcp/downloads/OC_PNP.pdf) for Unidirectional Digital Cable Products.

Interesting, given the fact your TV is on Cablelabs list of: "Certified, Verified and Self-Verified Cable Products" (http://www.cablelabs.com/udcp/downloads/OC_PNP.pdf) for Unidirectional Digital Cable Products.

In my case, the CableCard worked fine for about 10 days, then something went amok. Replacing the CC didn't fix it so I think it was a hardware failure in the Sharp.

This looks like a good place to post my situation to see if I'm unique. I have a two month old Sony KD-34XBR960 with Charter cable here in Atl. I'm using the cable card and my performance has been next to perfect. Whenever I go to any of the designated HD channels the screen mode reverts to FULL. All of the other channels, analog, digital, Premium, etc. remember their previous screen mode setting when I switch channels but not the HD channels. I have set this in the Menu with the 4:3 Default set to off and the Screen Mode set to Zoom, for instance. I can leave the Menu on the screen and change to a HD channel, and the ZOOM will change itself to FULL every time. The cable people say it is Sony and Sony says it's the cable card. Any one else have this same scenario, please?

This looks like a good place to post my situation to see if I'm unique. I have a two month old Sony KD-34XBR960 with Charter cable here in Atl. I'm using the cable card and my performance has been next to perfect. Whenever I go to any of the designated HD channels the screen mode reverts to FULL.

Yes, as soon as the set detects the HD signal it switches to it's default mode for 1080i which is Full. My set does the same although I have a 50 inch model. If I want it to Zoom, say for an HD signal that is still letterboxed like movies in 2:35 aspect, I have to manually switch to Zoom. But the instructions for the different modes are only for when the set detects a true SD 4:3 signal. That is the key. My set did this with the STB and still stays the same for the CC which I now have so I doubt it's the CC. The stations will broadcast a digital signal with 4:3 content and send it out letterboxed like the evening local news, and the set can not determine that the content is 4:3 since the signal is HD and letterboxed from the originating broadcast.

I can't get mine to auto switch to anything other than Full when it detects an HD signal. I'd say this must be normal for the new Sonys. Switching the 4:3 setting to default to Zoom doesn't have any effect when the content detected is an HD signal. The instructions for this in the manual are very misleading/confusing for a lot of people.

Yes, as soon as the set detects the HD signal it switches to it's default mode for 1080i which is Full. My set does the same although I have a 50 inch model. If I want it to Zoom, say for an HD signal that is still letterboxed like movies in 2:35 aspect, I have to manually switch to Zoom. But the instructions for the different modes are only for when the set detects a true SD 4:3 signal. That is the key. My set did this with the STB and still stays the same for the CC which I now have so I doubt it's the CC. The stations will broadcast a digital signal with 4:3 content and send it out letterboxed like the evening local news, and the set can not determine that the content is 4:3 since the signal is HD and letterboxed from the originating broadcast.

I can't get mine to auto switch to anything other than Full when it detects an HD signal. I'd say this must be normal for the new Sonys. Switching the 4:3 setting to default to Zoom doesn't have any effect when the content detected is an HD signal. The instructions for this in the manual are very misleading/confusing for a lot of people.
I couldn't quite understand your reply, Joanr. First of all, not all of the HD channels are 1080i. Secondly, where does it say it's default mode for 1080i is FULL? Thirdly, my instructions must be different than yours because my instructions do not say that they are for only when the TV detects a SD 4:3 signal. When the 4:3 setting is set to OFF, you will continue to use the current setting when the channel or input is changed. Actually, it says to look at page 55 and page 55 says to look at page 99. Fourthly, when I had a STB, there were settings in that box that were meant to correct this stuff from happening but it has been too long now for me to remember if it worked. Also, what about when a HD channel is showing a non HD program or commercial? Not every show on the HD channels is actually in HD 24 hours a day. Yet the screen mode changes on it's own to FULL no matter what.

I couldn't quite understand your reply, Joanr. First of all, not all of the HD channels are 1080i. Secondly, where does it say it's default mode for 1080i is FULL? Thirdly, my instructions must be different than yours because my instructions do not say that they are for only when the TV detects a SD 4:3 signal. When the 4:3 setting is set to OFF, you will continue to use the current setting when the channel or input is changed. Actually, it says to look at page 55 and page 55 says to look at page 99. Fourthly, when I had a STB, there were settings in that box that were meant to correct this stuff from happening but it has been too long now for me to remember if it worked. Also, what about when a HD channel is showing a non HD program or commercial? Not every show on the HD channels is actually in HD 24 hours a day. Yet the screen mode changes on it's own to FULL no matter what.

Yes, it does do that, by design I'd say. You can set the Wide Mode to Zoom and the 4:3 to off in the Wega Gate menu and the HD broadcasts will still be in Full mode when you tune to an HD channel.

Our manuals may be different but we are seeing the same behavior. The automatic "Wide Mode" settings do not work for 720p or 1080i sources, which it only hints at in my manual. The 4:3 aspect content coming over an HD source is still being detected as 720p or 1080i since it is being letterboxed by the broadcasting station who are throwing the bars on the sides of your picture. They are still broadcasting an HD signal to your set. When this happens you need to manually adjust the setting to zoom to get rid of the letterboxing. It won't happen automatically. For example, during the day CBS letterboxes it's 4:3 content on it's HD feeds. Click on your "display" button and it will tell you it is detecting a 1080i feed, and it is, only it is being letterboxed by CBS. Your CC is an authorization card, it does not have "mode"settings, so it is not your card doing this, it's the way the set works. I called about this months ago and the Sony rep I spoke with didn't even understand the wide mode settings, so it's no wonder they are blaming your CC.

Sony's Full mode is it's native 16:9 widescreen setting. I think that's why it normally defaults HD content to this mode. I haven't been able to defeat this, no matter what I've entered into the Wega Gate menu.

Yes, it does do that, by design I'd say. You can set the Wide Mode to Zoom and the 4:3 to off in the Wega Gate menu and the HD broadcasts will still be in Full mode when you tune to an HD channel.

Our manuals may be different but we are seeing the same behavior. The automatic "Wide Mode" settings do not work for 720p or 1080i sources, which it only hints at in my manual. The 4:3 aspect content coming over an HD source is still being detected as 720p or 1080i since it is being letterboxed by the broadcasting station who are throwing the bars on the sides of your picture. They are still broadcasting an HD signal to your set. When this happens you need to manually adjust the setting to zoom to get rid of the letterboxing. It won't happen automatically. For example, during the day CBS letterboxes it's 4:3 content on it's HD feeds. Click on your "display" button and it will tell you it is detecting a 1080i feed, and it is, only it is being letterboxed by CBS. Your CC is an authorization card, it does not have "mode"settings, so it is not your card doing this, it's the way the set works. I called about this months ago and the Sony rep I spoke with didn't even understand the wide mode settings, so it's no wonder they are blaming your CC.

Sony's Full mode is it's native 16:9 widescreen setting. I think that's why it normally defaults HD content to this mode. I haven't been able to defeat this, no matter what I've entered into the Wega Gate menu.

Okay, where you have 'Wide Mode' I have 'Screen Mode'. But like you said, I now know we are experiencing the same behavior. But I thought you said you were using a STB. Aren't you able to go into the STB's menu and make any changes that effect this problem? Sony told me the problem only happens with CCs. I agree with you and my Cable rep about the limited abilities of the CC. I would like to know before I switch to a box if it will be any different?

Okay, where you have 'Wide Mode' I have 'Screen Mode'. But like you said, I now know we are experiencing the same behavior. But I thought you said you were using a STB. Aren't you able to go into the STB's menu and make any changes that effect this problem? Sony told me the problem only happens with CCs. I agree with you and my Cable rep about the limited abilities of the CC. I would like to know before I switch to a box if it will be any different?

I'm using a CC on the Sony, but I have a Moto HD STB upstairs on my LCD panel which is also a widescreen. The menu options vary depending on what STB you will be using. The newer Moxi with 3.2 firmware allows for native pass thru. But here is the key, the boxes and the TV switch modes depending on the signal detected, not the aspect ratio of what that signal contains. This is where I think you are having your problem. You may be expecting the set to do something it just wasn't designed to do. My manual states that some wide mode auto settings are not available when a 720p or 1080i signal is detected. The manual needs to go into greater detail, that's for sure.

I'd like to know why you are wanting your HD content in Zoom mode in the first place. Unless it's a 2:35 aspect or letterboxed HD 4:3 content your picture should be filling your screen without any scaling when you are watching content that is 16:9 HD in Full mode. Are you not seeing this happen with your set?

My set upstairs will refuse to change display modes when it's getting an HD feed, I can't zoom or anything while watching an HD feed. I can tell you this, I played with the Sony for two hours on the Showroom floor before I bought it. They had a Sat feed. The set was acting exactly the same way as with the cc as far as changing modes. There are a few threads devoted exclusively to the Sony sets and one devoted to the Moxi STB. At this point I really don't think the cable card has any effect on the TV's display mode settings. I've heard that some content which should be 5.1 audio is being defeated but that's a copy permission issue. You could always try going straight into your set with the coax. Adelphia here is pumping 3 HD channels through the lower bands which would show up for example as 73.2 or whatever. You could run a test and see what happens without using the card or a box. I'm betting you will see the same if your cable provider is doing this.

I have an outside Terk HD antenna set up for the Sony for OTA HD local feeds in case the cable goes out. It acts the same exact way when bringing in those HD signals thru the antenna input. It goes right into full mode no matter what. Which is what I want it to do anyway. If it needs to be zoomed because it's HD 4:3 aspect then I just hit the remote button. I think you will see the same with any STB because of the signal detection situation described above.

Anyone else here with a new Sony wide and a CC please chime in, we'd like to hear an expert opinion. I'm no expert on this that's for sure.

Just to be sure I'm not hallucinating I just went into the Wega Gate display setting menu. I picked Zoom for wide mode and 4:3 default to off. All the analog channels will stay on zoom. The minute I go to an HD feed it switches to full. I then changed the input to antenna, I'm picking up both SD and HD signals thru the antenna. It does the same thing on the antenna input. SD the settings work, HD goes to full no matter. So suffice to say that the auto display mode settings are for SD signals only. If you want to change your HD signal display mode you have to do it manually. The card is not an issue when I'm using the antenna input so that further supports my statement that the CC is not affecting the display modes, it's the way the set works.

Well, they just hauled off my two week old Sharp lc-32d4u yesterday. Charter tried three times to get the CC to work, no luck.

The techs think its odd that sharp uses a splitter design for the cable. Charter thinks it degrades the signal and that may have some effect on the CC.

The tv techs said the technology is so new... they expected to take the tv back to the shop and "download" something to the TV.

The picture is great. I love the TV, but I paid extra to get a cable card tv, so I wouldn't have to deal with a box.

I'll keep you posted. The Charter guys are anxious to know what the solution is.

Well, they just hauled off my two week old Sharp lc-32d4u yesterday. Charter tried three times to get the CC to work, no luck.

The techs think its odd that sharp uses a splitter design for the cable. Charter thinks it degrades the signal and that may have some effect on the CC.

The tv techs said the technology is so new... they expected to take the tv back to the shop and "download" something to the TV.

The picture is great. I love the TV, but I paid extra to get a cable card tv, so I wouldn't have to deal with a box.

I'll keep you posted. The Charter guys are anxious to know what the solution is.

Splitter should not cause CC failure. Worked fine on my JVC.

all the Sharp LCD's are like this: most cableco techs know how to hook them up:

there was no need to take the display to the shop

This assertion "may" be somewhat plausible. Were you able to display a status screen on your TV to determine the incoming signal? For example:

OK, so what do you guys think of my levels?

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/px50u_signal.JPG

Your levels are fine. -9 dBmV on the QAM256 you are tuned to. QAM is usually run 8-10 dB below analog, which means you are getting about 0 dBmV at your set, ideal.

Just to be sure I'm not hallucinating I just went into the Wega Gate display setting menu. I picked Zoom for wide mode and 4:3 default to off. All the analog channels will stay on zoom. The minute I go to an HD feed it switches to full. I then changed the input to antenna, I'm picking up both SD and HD signals thru the antenna. It does the same thing on the antenna input. SD the settings work, HD goes to full no matter. So suffice to say that the auto display mode settings are for SD signals only. If you want to change your HD signal display mode you have to do it manually. The card is not an issue when I'm using the antenna input so that further supports my statement that the CC is not affecting the display modes, it's the way the set works.

Well, thanks to you, Joanr, I think I've finally got a grasp of this aspect ratio, letterbox, default screen mode stuff. Correct me if I'm wrong. When I go to a HD channel and the program is being broadcast in 1080i, the screen is full, no black bars, and the proper setting should be FULL and I have no need to change it. But when a commercial comes on, even though the on screen guide says 1080i, it is really 4:3 or SD with the black bars on the sides. And that is 'letterboxing'. And is that what is meant by upconverting or not? It is at those times when I want to change the screen mode from Full to ZOOM, naturally, to get rid of the bars. I mean, I might as well watch the SD version of this channel where the screen mode is remembered because those screens with black bars are not HD anyway??
And now I've strayed from the topic (CC) here except to learn that the CC has nothing to do with my situation.

Well, thanks to you, Joanr, I think I've finally got a grasp of this aspect ratio, letterbox, default screen mode stuff. Correct me if I'm wrong. When I go to a HD channel and the program is being broadcast in 1080i, the screen is full, no black bars, and the proper setting should be FULL and I have no need to change it. But when a commercial comes on, even though the on screen guide says 1080i, it is really 4:3 or SD with the black bars on the sides. And that is 'letterboxing'. And is that what is meant by upconverting or not? It is at those times when I want to change the screen mode from Full to ZOOM, naturally, to get rid of the bars. I mean, I might as well watch the SD version of this channel where the screen mode is remembered because those screens with black bars are not HD anyway??
And now I've strayed from the topic (CC) here except to learn that the CC has nothing to do with my situation.

Ok, I think you've got it. The HD signal is going to be detected at 720p or 1080i irregardless of the content. Since the networks are doing the upconvert letterbox the set has no idea what the aspect ratio is.

I usually just manually zoom if I don't want the letterboxing and keep the HD broadcast since it always looks better than my analog channels do with the cable. I'd say keep the cable card if you can live without all the program menus of the boxes. The reason for this is your Sony will be doing any necessary scaling, not the box, and those here will tell you your picture quality will be far superior compared to using an STB. But if you want VOD and a program grid, then you will need the STB.

Ok, I think you've got it. The HD signal is going to be detected at 720p or 1080i irregardless of the content. Since the networks are doing the upconvert letterbox the set has no idea what the aspect ratio is.

I usually just manually zoom if I don't want the letterboxing and keep the HD broadcast since it always looks better than my analog channels do with the cable. I'd say keep the cable card if you can live without all the program menus of the boxes. The reason for this is your Sony will be doing any necessary scaling, not the box, and those here will tell you your picture quality will be far superior compared to using an STB. But if you want VOD and a program grid, then you will need the STB.


More often than not, if you switch from full mode to the next mode, Zoom, to eliminate the bars, you wind up with a less than satisfactory mode(text or stats are cut off). But on the regular channel you get a full proportionate picture.
Can you or anyone else tell me the reason that the Cable Co. says not to use the card and the HD box simultaneously using any input or antenna you want for the box? I say that because in response to your last sentence, I use the regular digital STB in my living room and transmit its signal to three other rooms using a Rabbitt. This permits me to just switch antenna on my 34XBR to get the program grid and that wonderful VOD.

I just came from H.H.Gregg and a salesman told me that Toshiba makes all of Sony's components and Sony just puts them together. Is that true, false, new news or old?

And lastly, and this one really hurts but somebody has to do it, there is no such word as irregardless.

And lastly, and this one really hurts but somebody has to do it, there is no such word as irregardless.

Don't know why you couldn't use both, authorization for the STB is not tied to any particular set. The cable tech told me the card can only authorize for the set it was originally installed in.

ir·re·gard·less (¹r”¹-gärd“l¹s) adv. Non-Standard. Regardless.

The proper form is regardless, but what the heck. LOL!

Don't know why you couldn't use both, authorization for the STB is not tied to any particular set. The cable tech told me the card can only authorize for the set it was originally installed in.

ir·re·gard·less (¹r”¹-gärd“l¹s) adv. Non-Standard. Regardless.

The proper form is regardless, but what the heck. LOL!

Well, nobody is perfect!!!
Having said all of the above, please tell me what I'm watching tonight. I'm on the ABC HD channel watching football. The game is supposed to be in HD. The screen displays black vertical bars and the guide says '720p 16:9.

Well, nobody is perfect!!!
Having said all of the above, please tell me what I'm watching tonight. I'm on the ABC HD channel watching football. The game is supposed to be in HD. The screen displays black vertical bars and the guide says '720p 16:9.

Depends on your location, here in Colorado Springs ABC local is not broadcasting in HD yet, they do have their DT going full strength. You are probably seeing an ABC game which is not available in HD to your local station. When that happens they letterbox the broadcast. If it was just a digital signal DT, it would have said 480i. Regular SD analog signals will show as NTSC. This has happened here with CBS, the local affiliate did not switch the feed, or the feed comes to us in HD from either coast about 10 minutes into the game. Your local ABC could answer this for you.

BTW, if you look through the different forum topics you may find one that is dedicated to HD broadcasting specific to your area. We have a good discussion going on in the Colorado Springs HD thread. We talk about all aspects of HD including equipment and local stations.

Don't know why you couldn't use both, authorization for the STB is not tied to any particular set. The cable tech told me the card can only authorize for the set it was originally installed in.


Acutally the card is tied to the set. That is why you have to have the card installed in the set to have the card paired to the head end. You can't move the cable card from TV to TV in your house and get it to work.

Acutally the card is tied to the set. That is why you have to have the card installed in the set to have the card paired to the head end. You can't move the cable card from TV to TV in your house and get it to work.

Yes, which is what I had originally said. The question was if a STB could be used on another input if the set had a CC inserted. His cable company told him not to do that. STB's can be moved from set to set.

Yes, which is what I had originally said. The question was if a STB could be used on another input if the set had a CC inserted. His cable company told him not to do that. STB's can be moved from set to set.I have a SA8300HD-DVR and a SA PowerKEY CableCARD installed in my 50PX50U, everything works as expected.

I just purchased a Sony KDF-E42A10 and Charter came out to install the CableCARD. It seems to be stuck in the "Updating Firmware" screen. It sits there for an hour then starts the entire thing over again.

Is is the card? Is it the TV? The TV gets the "In The Clear" digital perfect so really not sure what to do now. The Charter guy brought out another card, but indicated these things don't work all that often.

I am not getting a box, just wish someone would try to help rather than just throwing their arms up.

Same thing happened here, for a while Comcast discontinued CableCARD installation. All is well now, after 3rd Cablecard (1st TV is on 4th Cablecard). Still lose a few channels every so often, then they come back.

Great pic, convenient, the way to go, but requires patience in abundance and putting up with technicians in the house, although they have been good about wearing the shoe protection.

My problems with CableCard were not with the picture quality or stability. It worked perfectly and picked up all the channels flawlessly. The problems I had were with my TV's (Toshiba 32HL95) poor TV-Guide system and extremely sluggish remote. It was so horrendous trying to change channels or find upcoming shows.

The picture quality was absolutely amazing, but I just couldn't live with the poor functionality so I went with an HD-DVR box. Now my PQ is slightly softer, but the ease-of-use and features far outweigh this.

Hey guys (and gals),
I've been poking my head into this thread occasionally, but had nothing to contribute, nor did I have any problems... till now.

I've had a LG 50py2dr for over six months now. We've got Charter in our area. I've done one firmware update to the PDP, and it was overall, performing ok. It had a few little quirks, but nothing that I couldn't live with. I'm subscribed to expanded basic, but the tv could still display ESPN HD. The TVGOS was working fine as well.

Well, about a week ago, they finally had taken ESPN HD out of the clear. The channel now shows up as scrambled. That's fine, I understand that they have the right to take something away that I wasn't paying for. But is seems that when they did that, they possibly have started scrambling the TVGOS signal. Is this possible, and if it is, do they have any rights to scrambling the TVGOS signal? The TVGOS listings are always saying something to the effect "your setup has changed. wait 24 hours for listings". This pretty much renders the DVR portion of the LG PDP useless. The PDP still receives the four local OTA HD signals, but without the TVGOS, the DVR can't show me any listings, resulting with the inability to set up a scheduled recording.

Do I need to bite the bullet, and get a cable card installed in order to get my TVGOS working again? I've read and read about the finger pointing; I've already had one Charter tech checking the cable feed running to my house state that I don't want to try to use a cable card. Also, since I've got the 4 networks in HD with my OTA antenna already, I hate to pay for cable HD just to get what little HD programming they have. I can't wait until it's mandatory for cable providers to broadcast every channel in HD.

I want to thank everyone for their contributions to the forum, and thank AVSforum for a place to discuss our HT aspirations!!

In Detroit Comcast I think you have to pay to recieve the HD channels I do get some with out the Cable card, out of sequence though.

I'm still Going on 3 months trying to get a cable card to work on my PDP5060 After about 6 cards I've gone back to Pioneer. I've got to take a day off so a tech can come out and replace the circuit board that holds the cable card. Supposedly this will rule out the TV. I've been using a DVR STB in the mean time. You'd think I'd just give up, but the CC functionality is one of the reasons I bought the set.

:mad:

Well I have not seen my problem posted so it's time for me to add my tale.

I'm on my seconc CC, the first one would just lock up the TV requiring the rest button to be pushed.

This one does not lock up it freezes then goes through a reset cycle.

Current problem is apperant low signal strength on digital channels which causes the sound to breakup along with tiling of the picture, another form of breakup.

I've had Comcast out and they could find nothing wrong with my signal strength. Now they only have a power meter and the SNR of any given channel is unknown.

Has any one else had trouble with cablecards and Sharp LC-xxD6U tv's? Size does not matter as they have common electronics.

Thank you

-- Brandy

Update:

To use a CC on Sharp TV's you need a splitter, one brance goes to cable input for the digital channels, second branch into the standard analog antenna terminal for the cable basic analog channels.

Well the splitter caused me a lot of trouble. I can tell you that the splitter or connectors can cause a CC to malfunction.

I my case I had broken up audio, tiling pictures, random resets, general unreliable operation. Surprising it picked on some channels more than others mostly HD channels.

I my case it was loose connections. DONOT use slip connectors. Only use the screw on kind and make sure the connections are FINGER TIGHT. Route cables so the connectors stay tight and do not move.

That fixed a three week old problem this morning.

-- Brandy

Brandy, what is your home environment like? Do you own/rent/etc.? The reason I ask is if you own a single-family house you'll have more control over your incoming cable infrastructure. Ideally you will be using all RG-6 coax from your cable providers tap to your TV (internal/external wiring). If you split the coax inside your house, try running a home run from the ground block to the DTV to see if this resolves/mitigates the issue. Make sure your TV has the most current firmware applied. Most likely there is a signaling issue at your end or a provisioning problem with the CableCARD and Comcast's head-end. You'll have to be persistent to get this resolved. Good luck.

BTW... look at the top of this page and you will see the status screen for my TV. When you are tuned to a digital channel under the FAT section you should see values similar to mine.

Hey guys (and gals),
I've been poking my head into this thread occasionally, but had nothing to contribute, nor did I have any problems... till now.

I've had a LG 50py2dr for over six months now. We've got Charter in our area. I've done one firmware update to the PDP, and it was overall, performing ok. It had a few little quirks, but nothing that I couldn't live with. I'm subscribed to expanded basic, but the tv could still display ESPN HD. The TVGOS was working fine as well.

Well, about a week ago, they finally had taken ESPN HD out of the clear. The channel now shows up as scrambled. That's fine, I understand that they have the right to take something away that I wasn't paying for. But is seems that when they did that, they possibly have started scrambling the TVGOS signal. Is this possible, and if it is, do they have any rights to scrambling the TVGOS signal? The TVGOS listings are always saying something to the effect "your setup has changed. wait 24 hours for listings". This pretty much renders the DVR portion of the LG PDP useless. The PDP still receives the four local OTA HD signals, but without the TVGOS, the DVR can't show me any listings, resulting with the inability to set up a scheduled recording.

Do I need to bite the bullet, and get a cable card installed in order to get my TVGOS working again? I've read and read about the finger pointing; I've already had one Charter tech checking the cable feed running to my house state that I don't want to try to use a cable card. Also, since I've got the 4 networks in HD with my OTA antenna already, I hate to pay for cable HD just to get what little HD programming they have. I can't wait until it's mandatory for cable providers to broadcast every channel in HD.

I want to thank everyone for their contributions to the forum, and thank AVSforum for a place to discuss our HT aspirations!!TVGOS and other interactive EPGs rely on the Program and System Information Protocol (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Program+and+System+Information+Protocol&gwp=19&curtab=2222_1&linktext=PSIP), which is part of the ATSC standard that provides program information for each channel. The information provided by the PSIP(rotocol) (http://www.psip.org/) may be filtered (not passed) by the cable provider. Based upon your cable provider's content policies, the installation of a CableCARD does not guarantee the reception of this data.

BTW... look at the top of this page and you will see the status screen for my TV. When you are tuned to a digital channel under the FAT section you should see values similar to mine.[/QUOTE]


optivity, I have a Panasonic with Cable Card, how do I get that message to display?

Thanks

TVGOS and other interactive EPGs rely on the Program and System Information Protocol (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Program+and+System+Information+Protocol&gwp=19&curtab=2222_1&linktext=PSIP), which is part of the ATSC standard that provides program information for each channel. The information provided by the PSIP(rotocol) (http://www.psip.org/) may be filtered (not passed) by the cable provider. Based upon your cable provider's content policies, the installation of a CableCARD does not guarantee the reception of this data.

By the same token, if it was there before, it should still be there. This information is usually passed on an analog channel, most likely PBS and a few locals. If you do not have any addresable equipment then it is gaurenteed that you still have a straight analog signal coming to your home.
The only possibility I can see happening is the analog channel that carried it was removed completey in favor of a digital transmission. Where I cant see this happening I also cant explain why you would loose it.

Just something to tell the tech when he takes the issue back to his sup. Anyone in his engineering department should be familiar with the data stream and be able to have someone verify if it is still active and if not, why not? There is really no reason why anyone would go through the trouble of filtering it out..

By the same token, if it was there before, it should still be there. This information is usually passed on an analog channel, most likely PBS and a few locals. If you do not have any addresable equipment then it is gaurenteed that you still have a straight analog signal coming to your home.
The only possibility I can see happening is the analog channel that carried it was removed completey in favor of a digital transmission. Where I cant see this happening I also cant explain why you would loose it.

Just something to tell the tech when he takes the issue back to his sup. Anyone in his engineering department should be familiar with the data stream and be able to have someone verify if it is still active and if not, why not? There is really no reason why anyone would go through the trouble of filtering it out..

My tvgos only displays call letters and station id. All channels on cablecard have no info available under description. Same feed directly into analog (different set) has the program info. Is this being withheld deliberately? I did get a very strong DVR push from Comcast and was repeatedly told about no on screen guide in the process.

"BTW... look at the top of this page and you will see the status screen for my TV. When you are tuned to a digital channel under the FAT section you should see values similar to mine."


optivity, I have a Panasonic with Cable Card, how do I get that message to display?

ThanksWhile you press and hold the volume + button on the display, press and hold the volume + button on the remote for about five seconds and the status screen will appear.

By the same token, if it was there before, it should still be there. This information is usually passed on an analog channel, most likely PBS and a few locals. If you do not have any addresable equipment then it is gaurenteed that you still have a straight analog signal coming to your home.
The only possibility I can see happening is the analog channel that carried it was removed completey in favor of a digital transmission. Where I cant see this happening I also cant explain why you would loose it. Your cable provider can change their content authorization, including PSIP, policies at any time. Just because you had been receiving TVGOS data in the past does not guarantee that you currently do.Just something to tell the tech when he takes the issue back to his sup. Anyone in his engineering department should be familiar with the data stream and be able to have someone verify if it is still active and if not, why not? There is really no reason why anyone would go through the trouble of filtering it out..The Cable provider's prefer to have you rent their STBs instead and pay a fee to use their electronic programming information service.

Your cable provider can change their content authorization, including PSIP, policies at any time. Just because you had been receiving TVGOS data in the past does not guarantee that you currently do.The Cable provider's prefer to have you rent their STBs instead and pay a fee to use their electronic programming information service.

Well, my Cable Provider would also be my employer and Im more then aware of what they can and cannot do. Ive also worked personaly on keeping the stream viable for subs with cable cards when being switched to ADS ( as there is no analog stream when mapped to ads)

So again I have to state, it can be done but it isnt worth the effort to alienate one of the smallest percentages of our customer base. And contrary to popular belief, your local cable company isnt out to screw you at every turn making all signal useless without a box.

TVGOS and other interactive EPGs rely on the Program and System Information Protocol, which is part of the ATSC standard that provides program information for each channel.

This is not the case. Some EPG services use PSIP, but TVGOS and some others do not. TVGOS uses a data stream inserted into line 14 of the VBI on analog broadcasts. The EPG data is sent en masse in the VBI of selected host channels. TVGOS doesn't even look at PSIP info, AFAIK. http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ (a website I maintain) has a reasonably detailed description of how TVGOS works, if you're interested.

This is not the case. Some EPG services use PSIP, but TVGOS and some others do not. TVGOS uses a data stream inserted into line 14 of the VBI on analog broadcasts. The EPG data is sent en masse in the VBI of selected host channels. TVGOS doesn't even look at PSIP info, AFAIK. http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ (a website I maintain) has a reasonably detailed description of how TVGOS works, if you're interested.

And the cable cos are generally forbidden to alter the VBI of an analog signal.

Hey guys (and gals),
Well, about a week ago, they finally had taken ESPN HD out of the clear. The channel now shows up as scrambled. That's fine, I understand that they have the right to take something away that I wasn't paying for. But is seems that when they did that, they possibly have started scrambling the TVGOS signal. Is this possible, and if it is, do they have any rights to scrambling the TVGOS signal?

Although it is possible that your cable provider is stripping the TVGOS data, it is extremely unlikely. Based on your description it sounds most likely that your cable company has switched to an all-digital lineup or has begun simulcasting your analog channels in digital. TVGOS data is carried in the VBI of your host station's analog broadcast only. If this is the case, switching to Cable Card will most certainly not help since the Cable Card will tune the digital channels just like your cable box does (but using an OTA antenna might). For some troubleshooting suggestions and advice, you might want to visit the unofficial TVGOS help guide at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/

Well, my Cable Provider would also be my employer and Im more then aware of what they can and cannot do.

Hey, CableTool, have you come from a certain other board and invaded this one? Welcome! Your expertise will be appreciated here.

Folks, this guy KNOWS what he's talking about.

Your favorite North and Wells guy...

Brandy, what is your home environment like? Do you own/rent/etc.? The reason I ask is if you own a single-family house you'll have more control over your incoming cable infrastructure. Ideally you will be using all RG-6 coax from your cable providers tap to your TV (internal/external wiring). If you split the coax inside your house, try running a home run from the ground block to the DTV to see if this resolves/mitigates the issue. Make sure your TV has the most current firmware applied. Most likely there is a signaling issue at your end or a provisioning problem with the CableCARD and Comcast's head-end. You'll have to be persistent to get this resolved. Good luck.

BTW... look at the top of this page and you will see the status screen for my TV. When you are tuned to a digital channel under the FAT section you should see values similar to mine.

First thank you for your responce.

I'm in my own home, so yes I have control over my cable plant. The house is wired with rg6, commerical version not industrial.

In your display what is Fat? What is FDC? Mine do not show usefull numbers like yours.

The problem is most severe on the HDTV channels, less so on digital channels, analog channels appear ok. When I thought I problems on analog I really needed to reset the tv then the analog cleared up.

I have not been able to find a Sharp warrenty repair place yet.

-- Brandy

This is not the case. Some EPG services use PSIP, but TVGOS and some others do not. TVGOS uses a data stream inserted into line 14 of the VBI on analog broadcasts. The EPG data is sent en masse in the VBI of selected host channels. TVGOS doesn't even look at PSIP info, AFAIK. http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ (a website I maintain) has a reasonably detailed description of how TVGOS works, if you're interested.Thanks for the explanation I stand corrected. It appears the loss of program information is the result of a configuration change by the cable provider. Most CATV subscribers, myself included, don't usually receive a satisfactory explanation when these things occur which often leads to erroneous speculation (and mistrust) regarding how our cable providers operate and their motives for the things they do. Hopefully when Verizon FiOS programming services become available, the increased competition will compel companies like Time Warner will see the value in providing better customer service.

I guess you have not read the customer service stories about FIOS here! :D

I guess you have not read the customer service stories about FIOS here! :D

I heard about installation problems but not customer service issues

many of us, including myself, are anxious to get FIOS: it is turned on in my town for internet access but not HD: I am on a wait list

what can you tell us?

Well, they just hauled off my two week old Sharp lc-32d4u yesterday. Charter tried three times to get the CC to work, no luck.

The techs think its odd that sharp uses a splitter design for the cable. Charter thinks it degrades the signal and that may have some effect on the CC.

The tv techs said the technology is so new... they expected to take the tv back to the shop and "download" something to the TV.

The picture is great. I love the TV, but I paid extra to get a cable card tv, so I wouldn't have to deal with a box.

I'll keep you posted. The Charter guys are anxious to know what the solution is.

Well the splitter caused me a lot of trouble. I can tell you that the splitter or connectors can cause a CC to malfunction.

I my case I had broken up audio, tiling pictures, random resets, general unreliable operation. Surprising it picked on some channels more than others mostly HD channels.

I my case it was loose connections. DONOT use slip connectors. Only use the screw on kind and make sure the connections are FINGER TIGHT. Route cables so the connectors stay tight and do not move.

That fixed a three week old problem this morning.

-- Brandy

a new Cablecard problem:

Sharp error code E203: No broadcast now (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7055033&&#post7055033)

today my Sharp LC45GX6U went into an 'updating firmware for Cablecard' mode continuosly: after the third hour of rebooting I removed the Cablecard

it looks like Comcast's agenda to kill the Cablecard is working :mad:

I had the happen and finally got it update successfully - not Comcast system either - unfortunately it was a year ago and I can't remember the steps I took - though I did post it here :(


I want to say that I took the cable card out - did a scan without cable card - then put it back in and did scan - but i really dont remember now.

Oh My GOD! They finally got it to work!!!! After 3 months of comcast blaming Pioneer and Pioneer blaming Comcast ,Pioneer finally stepped up and had their CC tech from Ohio come by my house.

He walked comcast through activating the CC. Comcast Detroit had no Idea you needed more info off the TV other than just the serial # to the card. After the info from the tv such as host info and something else was relayed to the head end the card finally came to life.

Pioneer and I ought to be charging comcast for getting them off their lazy asses and showing them how to activate a CC. I don't know if other sets are different but they had no clue before Pioneer came out. By the way my PDP5060s picture looks great!!! I'm sending the DVR back!!

WHOPPIE!!!! :D

Oh My GOD! snip
I'm sending the DVR back!!

WHOPPIE!!!! :D

With no DVR how will you record TV programs, or don't you need to do that?

Thanks,

Larry

I have a dvd recorder. I only had the 6412 to receive all the channels in the proper format. Its a nice unit but its not that important to me.

I thought someone here would want to read this recent article.
http://arstechnica.com/guides/other/cablecard.ars
It should mostly be a review on Cablecards, but there are a few bits of new information.

a new Cablecard problem:

Sharp error code E203: No broadcast now (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7055033&&#post7055033)


YEA, I got that see my post #454. When that happens now the cablecard will cause the tv to do a reset and then the picture is ok. Go to Menu>Setup>Channel setup the diagnostic panel are your numbers in the recommended range? Are the numbers bouncing all over the place?


I'm on my second CC the first one when it got that error message would just hang.

-- Brandy

Charter tried to install CableCARD this last weekend but they said they have an issue where the firmware keeps trying to update. In the meantime, I couldn't even change Video inputs. Sure enough after the hour it said it needed to update, I had TV for about 2 minutes and then it went to update again (presumably for another hour). So the technician swapped in another STB. :(

Probably time for a DVR upgrade... but then I'm facing a Moxi box... wish I could get an SA8300HD...

Charter tried to install CableCARD this last weekend but they said they have an issue where the firmware keeps trying to update. In the meantime, I couldn't even change Video inputs. Sure enough after the hour it said it needed to update, I had TV for about 2 minutes and then it went to update again (presumably for another hour). So the technician swapped in another STB. :(

Probably time for a DVR upgrade... but then I'm facing a Moxi box... wish I could get an SA8300HD...

I had the exact same issue, and from what I have been reading it isn't a TV issue, but an issue with the cards, the firmware and the headend that is sending the firmware. My problem was the tech that came out really had zero clue of what he was doing. The first thing he said when he walked in the door was that most of these don't work; you think that would tell them something on their end is wrong when multiple makes have the same issues).

The MOXI box interface is much better than the 8300HD, however it has issues recording more than one HD channel at a time, and has very limited hard drive space.

Yeah my tech didn't sound very clued in either and said pretty much the same thing. Something tells me that the Cable Co's... even if they're not dragging their feet at implementation, they're not too sad that CableCARDs aren't working out.

I was hoping to get rid of a box even though there's no rental fee in the "Big Value Package." Just doesn't fit the rest of the decor...

Yeah my tech didn't sound very clued in either and said pretty much the same thing. Something tells me that the Cable Co's... even if they're not dragging their feet at implementation, they're not too sad that CableCARDs aren't working out...

I have had the same feeling. My CC works, but the runaround and stalling was unbelievable. God foprbid something isn't working right. they have to send a "tech" out just to add a channel to the lineup.

Worst part is that there is nothing that goon is doing that I couldn't do. I can call and chatter by phone with the cable people on the other side. I'm thinking about scheduling another attempt in a couple weeks but wondering if it's worth teh trouble.

YEA, I got that see my post #454. When that happens now the cablecard will cause the tv to do a reset and then the picture is ok. Go to Menu>Setup>Channel setup the diagnostic panel are your numbers in the recommended range? Are the numbers bouncing all over the place?


I'm on my second CC the first one when it got that error message would just hang.

-- Brandy

it is normal for the Sharp signal level meter to bounce around a lot: when I look at actual signal levels with a Sencore meter, they are stable

still I am having Comcast come out and recheck signal levels before I give up: they were supposed to come Sunday but we had 26" of snow :)

I have a new Hitachi plasma model 42HDS52A with Comcast cable card just installed and working great. However, although I finally hooked up DVD/VCR Recorder correctly so it records non HD, of course, programs it won't record with set off for timer recordings. Which means if I want to record a show at 3:00 AM tv must be on. I have spent hours trying to find a solution but apparently per Comcast tech who installed card ---------- if he is correct, he said this can't be done without STB. Records blank black screen and no sound either when set off.

I have observed no postings on this site re this subject so either there is a solution or all using CC have accepted this loss of timer unattended recording capabilities. Any insight would be appreciated.

Stephen

I should also mention recorder is Sylvania DVR90VE. When new TV was hooked up by store techs though it was a player only thus only hooke up for playback which is why I had to hook up from TV out to recorder in which resolved recording bu only while TV on. I also tried quick start so TV is in standby to no avail. I don't want STB because CC is providing standard TV stations with clarity better than my other non HD TV and non HD STB.

I have a new Hitachi plasma model 42HDS52A with Comcast cable card just installed and working great. However, although I finally hooked up DVD/VCR Recorder correctly so it records non HD, of course, programs it won't record with set off for timer recordings. Which means if I want to record a show at 3:00 AM tv must be on. I have spent hours trying to find a solution but apparently per Comcast tech who installed card ---------- if he is correct, he said this can't be done without STB. Records blank black screen and no sound either when set off.

I have observed no postings on this site re this subject so either there is a solution or all using CC have accepted this loss of timer unattended recording capabilities. Any insight would be appreciated.

StephenCable providers do not permit time-shift recording of HD (or SD?) content with one-way CableCARDs. Tivo is coming out with an HD DVR with a two-way CableCARD slot and until they hammer out an agreement with CATV providers you won't see their Series 3 recorder on the market. Until then... the only way to use a DVR is to rent one from your cable provider... sorry.

I have a new Hitachi plasma model 42HDS52A with Comcast cable card just installed and working great. However, although I finally hooked up DVD/VCR Recorder correctly so it records non HD, of course, programs it won't record with set off for timer recordings. Which means if I want to record a show at 3:00 AM tv must be on. I have spent hours trying to find a solution but apparently per Comcast tech who installed card ---------- if he is correct, he said this can't be done without STB. Records blank black screen and no sound either when set off.

I have observed no postings on this site re this subject so either there is a solution or all using CC have accepted this loss of timer unattended recording capabilities. Any insight would be appreciated.

Stephen

In general TV tuners are not seen as being used for recording devices (unless TV has built in recording device DVR/VCR) and thus do not output anything via it's outputs when powered off. On top of this many TVs w/ built in guides (TVgos) will be trying to tune to the Guide info when powered off.

VCRs/DVRs/etc. all have internal timers that when it's powered off and a timed recording comes one it will tune to the channel and record. And STBs have had these features added due to consumer demand.

Even though the TV has CableCARD it's not intended as a STB and I'd not expect it to be. Maybe this viewpoint will change in the future but don't count on it.

CCourtney

Cable providers do not permit time-shift recording of HD (or SD?) content with one-way CableCARDs. Tivo is coming out with an HD DVR with a two-way CableCARD slot and until they hammer out an agreement with CATV providers you won't see their Series 3 recorder on the market. Until then... the only way to use a DVR is to rent one from your cable provider... sorry.

What gives you that Idea? I time shift currently with my Sony DHG-HDD500 DVR w/ CableCARD and there are a couple other CableCARD DVRs on the market as well.

You will see the TiVo Series 3 on the market some time in 2H06. The boxes will support both 1.0 and 2.0 CableCARDs and Single and Multi-stream cards (which does not imply bi-directionality just that you can use both tuners w/ a multi-stream card, but would require two single stream cards if only single stream cards are available.)

CCourtney

Thanks a million. I'll order one today. Hefty price @ 649.00 but well worth it.

Stephen

Yes, they are expensive. I actually got mine for $250 because Sony Discontinued the 500GB line as they where not selling at the $800 price point ($999 MSRP) that Sony wanted them to. If you do some searching you'll see that Tweeter was the major supplier and when Sony Discontinued them, they dropped them to $250 to get them out the door. Needless to say AVS Forum Members jumped all over them. There are still plenty being pushed 2nd hand over on e-bay (i.e. people bought multiple units, one or two for themselves the others to sell on e-bay.) I personally was only able to get one.

You may want to consider the 250GB line as it's less expensive. That is still a lot of capacity on a DVR. I'm also using my cable companies supplied SA8300HD which is 160GB. This is all I really need for the most part, but with the 500GB box I had over 60hrs worth of Winter Olympics on it (SA8300HD can only get about 20hrs of HD content.) Now I use a bit of both boxes, but use the SA8300HD as my primary because it's a dual tuner.

CCourtney

Thanks. I'm already shopping and BB and CC have at $999 bing highest price. I'll look into 250 gb since I don't need 500.

Before calling Comcast would I be making correct assumption that only one Cable Card is needed? Meaning I eject Cable Card from HD-TV and insert in Sony DHG-HDD500 and then connect to TV. Or do I need separate card for DVR which seems duplicating.

My other concern is, can PQ on analog channels remain as excellent as it is now with card in TV when and if transferred to DVR only?


Thanks,

Stephen

You can use the DVR w/ the CableCARD as your STB. Then you'll always be tuning to the encrypted digital cable channels via the DVR (i.e. your TV will no longer tune to the encyrpted digital cable channels. It will still be able to tune to the 'QAM Free and Clear' channels, those channels which are not encrypted which usually are your local channels.)

The analog channels should remain the same quality on the TV if the TV is tuning into the cable station (if they're actually analog channels.) A number of companies have started to Simulcast their analog channels on digital channels (i.e. your STB would actually be tunning into a digital channel that is different from the analog channel a regular 'cable ready' TV would tune into.)

If you're using your DVR w/ CableCARD to tune into it, it should be just as good (even if they were doing simulcasting, because the cableCARD should get the simulcasting information and tune to the digital channel.)

CCourtney

slannes,

Note that your card will have to be reprovisioned by the cableco when you move it to the DVR. It cannot be freely switched between devices, but is bound to an individual device when provisioned. Some cablecos will insist on a service call to do this.

Nevertheless, the DVR is the best place for the card.

If your provider does not charge a monthly fee for the cards, you might want to get a second one so both devices can receive all channels and the channel numbers will be consistent.

Thanks for extremely valued input. I'll be home free and not have to stay up at 3:00 AM to record TCM unless Comcast claims Card allowed in TV only as poster back in 2004 mentioned. I don't mind paying for two cards. I'm now immune to sticker shock with Comcast at over $100 a month.

If anyone aware of a CC slotted DVR brand other than Sony I'd like to know otherwise off to shop for Sony now becoming rare. But C-City here in Santa Cruz, CA has them.


Stephen

The Sony DVR's are "officially" supported by Comcast per an engineer's memo of last year, according to my local tech supervisor. They can have some glitches, but work just fine for me. I don't see any problem with two CableCARD devices because the external tuner gets connected to a separate input (HDMI or component) and has nothing to due with the TV's tuner.

But be aware that this setup MAY confound a CSR or a tech. Avoid telling them too much. Just call and tell them you have another TV and want a card for it.

No, CableCARDs are not restricted to TVs. Actually don't bother even telling them it's a DVR as it just confuses the tech's.

Sony is currently the only one on the market that I'm aware of with a standalone DVR w/ CableCARD. There are several HDTVs w/ CableCARD and DVRs built in, and TiVo's comming out with the Series 3 sometime 2nd half of the year.

CCourtney

Found one! Thanks again!

Stephen


Subtotal of Items: $649.00
Shipping & Handling: $49.95
------
Total before tax: $698.95
Estimated Tax: $53.54
------
Total for this Order: $752.49


Shipping estimate for these items: March 21, 2006 - March 22, 2006
Delivery estimate: March 24, 2006 - March 29, 2006
1 "Sony DHG-HDD500 60-Hour High-Definition Digital Video Recorder (500 GB)"
Electronics; $649.00

Well, they just hauled off my two week old Sharp lc-32d4u yesterday. Charter tried three times to get the CC to work, no luck.

The techs think its odd that sharp uses a splitter design for the cable. Charter thinks it degrades the signal and that may have some effect on the CC.

The tv techs said the technology is so new... they expected to take the tv back to the shop and "download" something to the TV.

The picture is great. I love the TV, but I paid extra to get a cable card tv, so I wouldn't have to deal with a box.

I'll keep you posted. The Charter guys are anxious to know what the solution is.

I am not so sure that Charter is anxious to know about any solution regarding the CC.

I bought a second Sharp LCD this weekend and called about the CC. It is about $8/mo cheaper for me to have the CC instead of the STB, but then I started to get a bunch of hot air from Charter. I was on the phone several times and I went through the "You need a professional Installation, it is a complicated process", "a service fee of $35 is required", "we will not fix the CC if something happens, but we will fix the STB", "the CC is not HD compliant and cannot receive HD signals", "it doesn't come with a remote", "yadi, yadi, yada".

It seems to me that this whole reluctance from Charter to supply CC is due to the fact that you can't get VOD or PPV with the CC (1 way vs. 2 way with STB), and you are therefore cutting into potential revenues for them. Personally, I don't care as I have never used these functions and don't plan on using them.

Bottom line is that the STB really doesn't fit the decor of my home, it is locked on 1080i and won't let native signals pass-through, it has an ugly remote, has no HDMI output (however for an extra $10/mo I can get a box with HDMI!), and a ton of other quirks. A CC is Plug & Play, and I can spend time on the phone as well as, if not better, than the "Professional Installer".

Is there a reliable CC out there? (my sets are Sharps LC37D4U)
Can you actually buy one, or are you dependent on the cable company?

Is there a reliable CC out there? (my sets are Sharps LC37D4U)
Can you actually buy one, or are you dependent on the cable company?

You are dependent on the cableco and also locked in to the brand of card they use because it must work with their headend equipment.

But don't let them bamboozle you. It's an FCC mandate that they MUST furnish a working card at your request (since July of 2004!). Many of us have gone through this ridiculous process of stalling and spewing of misinformation by the cablecos. Take some advice and don't get too worked up. Just ignore the BS and demand a card. Unfortunately, you will have to accept the cost of "installation". It's extremely rare for a cableco to allow self installs. (OTOH, if they don't get it working the first time, you can yell and they may remove the installation charge.)

Once the card is working, you will be glad you got it.

It's an FCC mandate that they MUST furnish a working card at your request (since July of 2004!). Many of us have gone through this ridiculous process of stalling and spewing of misinformation by the cablecos. Take some advice and don't get too worked up. Just ignore the BS and demand a card.

Once the card is working, you will be glad you got it.

I know about the mandate, I even told them about it, but they don't seem to care much. I am sorry for venting earlier, but it is hard not to get too worked up when idiotic clerks feed you a bunch of lines and want some half-arsed tech to mess with your expensive TV.

I can't wait to get the CC to get rid of that ugly black box, but it seems some people are having issues. Hopefully a CC will work well with my set.

Found one! Thanks again!

Stephen


Subtotal of Items: $649.00
Shipping & Handling: $49.95
------
Total before tax: $698.95
Estimated Tax: $53.54
------
Total for this Order: $752.49


Shipping estimate for these items: March 21, 2006 - March 22, 2006
Delivery estimate: March 24, 2006 - March 29, 2006
1 "Sony DHG-HDD500 60-Hour High-Definition Digital Video Recorder (500 GB)"
Electronics; $649.00

Notwithstanding copying program from DVR hard drive to VCR being in real time --- does burning DVD from hard drive execute as fast as when doing so on a computer?

Thanks,

Stephen

Sorry for dumb question --------I wasn't thinking. When playing DVR program back through TV the only way to copy to DVD is in the real time of the DVD/VCR recorder.

Stephen

While awaiting receipt of Sony DHG-HDD500 I read downloaded manual which is quite vague on recording to VCR or DVD for obvious reasons (fear of movie studios). Thus, is there a selection to bypass hard drive and record unattended with timer direct to VCR/DVD to avoid having to transfer program from hard drive to VCR/DVD recorder in real time?

Thanks to anyone who knows,

Stephen

I just want to add my experience to this thread. I have had Comcast digital cable using a STB on an analog TV for a few months now and have been very pleased. Last week I realized that the HDTV I wanted was being discontinued (Sony KD-34XBR960) and was available at a good discount so I purchased it. My intention was to keep the STB on the old TV in the bedroom and use a CC on the new Sony. I have just limited digital service which gives me basic plus expanded basic channels plus broadcast HD channels.

First I tried seeing what channels I received by just connecting the cable into the TV. I got the basic channels in analog, the HD broadcast channels, but no expanded basic channels.

I went down to the local Comcast office and asked for a CC which they gave me, and a sheet of instructions with a number to call. I went home, inserted the card, fired up the set, and called the number. The tech on the phone did not ask for any info from the CC diagnostic screen, no ID's, nothing. I got the basic channels, now with their proper channel numbers, but only in analog. Still no expanded channels. I asked if she had to do anything to unencrypt the expanded channels. She said no, they were not encrypted. That was the extent of her help.

The next day I called again and got a different tech. This time he had me go to channel 700-something and tell him if I saw anything. There were my basic and expanded basic channels in digital! So then he had me wait while he sent a command to remap those to the normal channel numbers. Pretty soon all was groovy.

The interesting thing is that one, they let me install the CC myself, and two, they aren't charging me for it, and three, I didn't have to provide them with any specific card ID's or addresses.

Everything is working fine and the PQ is absolutely surperb. I'm in Olympia, Washington, BTW.

While awaiting receipt of Sony DHG-HDD500 I read downloaded manual which is quite vague on recording to VCR or DVD for obvious reasons (fear of movie studios). Thus, is there a selection to bypass hard drive and record unattended with timer direct to VCR/DVD to avoid having to transfer program from hard drive to VCR/DVD recorder in real time?

Thanks to anyone who knows,

Stephen

you might want to check this thread out: (150 pages on this unit)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5593255&&#post5593255

it is normal for the Sharp signal level meter to bounce around a lot: when I look at actual signal levels with a Sencore meter, they are stable

still I am having Comcast come out and recheck signal levels before I give up: they were supposed to come Sunday but we had 26" of snow :)

I had some luck on these steps on Sharps:

-make sure the incoming cable is split to the 2 inputs shown in the users manual to the back of the TV.

-take the cable card out of the TV, hold the 'reset' button on the back of the TV (not the system reset) & plug the TV back in.

-go through 'Channel Search' (menu -> Setup -> 'channel search') without the cable card in.

-put the cable card back in & go through 'channel search' again.

If the cable provider has correctly entered the cable card id #, host id & host data, for the pairing information, it should come up. You could also make sure your setup is correct, Digital antenna is set to 'no' & analog cable / Digital cable are set to 'yes'

Cablecard progress

Comcast called and said they had finally updated some CC firmware so we could receive ESPNH (ch 202 in Monmouth County, NJ)

previously we could only receive audio: no video for this channel (it worked fine from their stb)

this may not sound like much but it means Comcast is still working CC issues :)

I still get the E203 error on the Sharp LCD's but I attribute that to Sharp

fwiw: my town just started negotiations for Verizon Fios: the town has already been prewired with fiber: FIOS HDTV will still take months until it is turned on in NJ

I I went down to the local Comcast office and asked for a CC which they gave me, and a sheet of instructions with a number to call. I went home, inserted the card, fired up the set, and called the number.


I so very much wish I could do this with Charter. :mad:

I so very much wish I could do this with Charter. :mad:Charter has started offering CableCard self-installation in their North Carolina / Virginia market. Hopefully it will start getting rolled out to other markets.

In the NCTA's March 30th status report ... Comcast, Time Warner, and Charter were the only three cable companies that reported offering any self-install option.
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6518332453

Cable, CE Firms Start New Spat Over CableCARD Failures

JULY 05, 2006

By Alan Breznick

Opening up a new front in the regulatory wars between the cable and consumer electronics industries, each side is heatedly blaming the other for numerous faulty installations of removable security modules in digital cable-ready TV sets and set-top boxes.

In their latest joint volley filed with the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), the nation's six biggest cable operators charge that
consumer electronics devices now account for the lion's share of installation problems with the security modules, known as CableCARDS.
Several of the large MSOs, while conceding past problems with faulty CableCARDS, pin the blame on uncooperative digital TV sets in 90% or more of the cases today.

For example, Charter Communications claims that "problems with the manufacture of digital televisions are responsible for virtually all
reported CableCARD issues" that the company encountered in March, April, and May. The nation's third biggest MSO chalks up at least 94 percent of its installation problems to "faulty host digital televisions."

Consumer electronics makers counter that cable operators and their vendors are the ones largely to blame for the malfunctioning one-way CableCARDS, which are designed to support some but not all digital services. Citing "an increasing level of customer frustration with CableCARDS," electronics manufacturers argue that many cable systems don't offer enough technical support and employee training to make the system work.

In one such filing with the FCC, JVC Americas Corp. relates that it launched 16 CableCARD-ready digital TV models last year, only to run into thousands of customer complaints. With its service centers "overwhelmed with complaints and requests for service on sets that are unable to interoperate with cable headends" and its dealers "upset by customer returns of CableCARD
sets," JVC says it has now slashed the number of CableCARD-ready models to nine.

The FCC requires CableCARDS to make it easier for all consumer electronic manufacturers to sell "plug-and-play" cable-ready equipment in retail
stores. The idea is to promote competition against such set-top giants as Motorola and Scientific-Atlanta, which have long dominated the cable market by supplying the set-tops that MSOs lease to their customers. By separating conditional access technology from the rest of the set-top or cable-ready TV set, the FCC seeks to enable cable subscribers to use any TV set or set-top they want, simply by inserting a CableCARD module from their cable operator.

Due to both competitive and technological reasons, CableCARDs have proven to be a market flop so far. Cable operators report that they have handed out just 170,000 modules to digital cable customers over the past couple of years, even though more than 450 different TV set and set-top models can support the modules.

In their latest filings at the FCC, the CE firms suggest that cable operators are deliberately discouraging CableCARD use so they can put more
of their proprietary digital set-top boxes in subscribers' homes. The TV equipment makers note that while they have sold more than 1 million
CableCARD-ready digital TVs over the last few years, cable operators have distributed CableCARDS to less than 20% of these set buyers.

Dismissing this accusation, the cable guys put the blame on low consumer interest in CableCARDs. Contending that cable operators are "not obliged to become marketers for particular types of television sets," the National Cable and Telecommunications Association (NCTA) asserts that MSOs "have provided their customers with CableCARDS whenever the customer so requests."


Both industries gripe that their TV technicians and customer service reps are spending far too much time and money trying to get digital sets and
CableCARDS to work together. They largely blame each other, however, for not putting in the necessary effort.

The latest salvos come as the two industries continue to grapple over a Comcast Corp. request for a waiver of the FCC's CableCARD mandate for three new, low-cost digital cable set-tops. Comcast, NCTA, Motorola, Scientific-Atlanta, and other cable interests say the waiver would help speed the nation's transition to digital TV. But the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) and several leading electronics makers say the waiver would further undercut support for CableCARDs.

The two industries are also battling over cable's plans to introduce "multi-stream CableCARDs" (M-CARDs) for two-way digital cable-ready TV sets and set-top boxes later this year. Cable operators say the M-CARDs will support all properly certified electronics devices while CE makers say the modules will favor MSO-backed set-tops.

http://www.cabledigitalnews.com/weekly_analysis/07062006_01.html

Cable, CE Firms Start New Spat Over CableCARD Failures

JULY 05, 2006

By Alan Breznick

Opening up a new front in the regulatory wars between the cable and consumer electronics industries, each side is heatedly blaming the other for numerous faulty installations of removable security modules in digital cable-ready TV sets and set-top boxes.

In their latest joint volley filed with the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), the nation's six biggest cable operators charge that
consumer electronics devices now account for the lion's share of installation problems with the security modules, known as CableCARDS.
Several of the large MSOs, while conceding past problems with faulty CableCARDS, pin the blame on uncooperative digital TV sets in 90% or more of the cases today.

For example, Charter Communications claims that "problems with the manufacture of digital televisions are responsible for virtually all
reported CableCARD issues" that the company encountered in March, April, and May. The nation's third biggest MSO chalks up at least 94 percent of its installation problems to "faulty host digital televisions."

Consumer electronics makers counter that cable operators and their vendors are the ones largely to blame for the malfunctioning one-way CableCARDS, which are designed to support some but not all digital services. Citing "an increasing level of customer frustration with CableCARDS," electronics manufacturers argue that many cable systems don't offer enough technical support and employee training to make the system work.

In one such filing with the FCC, JVC Americas Corp. relates that it launched 16 CableCARD-ready digital TV models last year, only to run into thousands of customer complaints. With its service centers "overwhelmed with complaints and requests for service on sets that are unable to interoperate with cable headends" and its dealers "upset by customer returns of CableCARD
sets," JVC says it has now slashed the number of CableCARD-ready models to nine.

The FCC requires CableCARDS to make it easier for all consumer electronic manufacturers to sell "plug-and-play" cable-ready equipment in retail
stores. The idea is to promote competition against such set-top giants as Motorola and Scientific-Atlanta, which have long dominated the cable market by supplying the set-tops that MSOs lease to their customers. By separating conditional access technology from the rest of the set-top or cable-ready TV set, the FCC seeks to enable cable subscribers to use any TV set or set-top they want, simply by inserting a CableCARD module from their cable operator.

Due to both competitive and technological reasons, CableCARDs have proven to be a market flop so far. Cable operators report that they have handed out just 170,000 modules to digital cable customers over the past couple of years, even though more than 450 different TV set and set-top models can support the modules.

In their latest filings at the FCC, the CE firms suggest that cable operators are deliberately discouraging CableCARD use so they can put more
of their proprietary digital set-top boxes in subscribers' homes. The TV equipment makers note that while they have sold more than 1 million
CableCARD-ready digital TVs over the last few years, cable operators have distributed CableCARDS to less than 20% of these set buyers.

Dismissing this accusation, the cable guys put the blame on low consumer interest in CableCARDs. Contending that cable operators are "not obliged to become marketers for particular types of television sets," the National Cable and Telecommunications Association (NCTA) asserts that MSOs "have provided their customers with CableCARDS whenever the customer so requests."


Both industries gripe that their TV technicians and customer service reps are spending far too much time and money trying to get digital sets and
CableCARDS to work together. They largely blame each other, however, for not putting in the necessary effort.

The latest salvos come as the two industries continue to grapple over a Comcast Corp. request for a waiver of the FCC's CableCARD mandate for three new, low-cost digital cable set-tops. Comcast, NCTA, Motorola, Scientific-Atlanta, and other cable interests say the waiver would help speed the nation's transition to digital TV. But the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) and several leading electronics makers say the waiver would further undercut support for CableCARDs.

The two industries are also battling over cable's plans to introduce "multi-stream CableCARDs" (M-CARDs) for two-way digital cable-ready TV sets and set-top boxes later this year. Cable operators say the M-CARDs will support all properly certified electronics devices while CE makers say the modules will favor MSO-backed set-tops.

http://www.cabledigitalnews.com/weekly_analysis/07062006_01.html

Interesting. The only problem I had with my cable card was lack of digital audio out on certain channels. This was eventually shown to be the fault of the manufacturer (Panasonic) -- not the cable company. Panasonic (after pressure from consumers like myself), eventually issued a firmware update to correct the problem.

Panasonic claimed they were just stringintly following the industry standards regarding copy protection. They had to be told they were misinterpreting the standards issued by CableLabs.

Sony comes off as more professional than the Charter thugs they send out. I would much prefer that Charter conform to the slot Sony has installed. It's just a PCMCIA card...

Cable, CE Firms Start New Spat Over CableCARD Failures (http://www.cabledigitalnews.com/weekly_analysis/07062006_01.html)

"caesar1" and I are well versed in the technological nuances of the CableCARD. ;) Our respective cable TV providers are proof that one-way CableCARDs work very well with no more hassle involved to install & support than the typical STB. I'm still paying Time Warner more than $100 per month for (2) STBs, (1) CableCARD and the associated program content, so as far as I'm concerned Time Warner has lost no significant revenue because they installed a CableCARD into my PDP.

Instead of resolving the DRM issues that all of those who are in the A/V entertainment business would be wise to do... the MSOs & DCR TV manufacturers would rather engage in a childish game of finger pointing :rolleyes: which only serves to delay the inevitable, which is an open Cable/FiOS/Satellite environment that supports full two-way communication between the host-node and head-end.

I'm amazed there are some rather astute AVS Forum participants who are considering the purchase of a $10,000 1080p PDP "monitor" and remain married to their 3-year-old hunk-of-junk SA8300 STB. :eek:

I for one pledge not to buy another piece of expensive A/V equipment until the MSOs/TV manufacturers resolve DRM issues and implement some form of DCAS or M-Card which is capable of negotiating the content I pay for.

Well put, optivity. I believe that 98% of cableCARD installation failures are due to the cable companies. Granted, there have been a few minor card firmware issues and some glitches with certain retail equipment models, but the cablecos almost always are the source of the problems.

I want to watch/record HD with the equipment and features of my choosing, not with the junk the cablecos want to force on me. We should have many more choices by now, but we don't because of the bickering between parties.

Remember, all the concerned parties --- DCR retail manufacturers, cablecos, and CableLABS --- were present at the meetings that set the "standards" for this technology. Oh, how I'd like to have an audio recording of those sessions. It would have to be the comedy hit of the millennium.

I want to watch/record HD with the equipment and features of my choosing, not with the junk the cablecos want to force on me. We should have many more choices by now, but we don't because of the bickering between parties.The A/V industry has gone the way of the computer... where a new specification (e.g. HDMI) and/or OS (e.g. MS Vista and don't forget ViiV) seems to get "churned out" almost daily. Any consumer who has been involved with subscribing to HD content and buying the equipment to view it must be coming to the conclusion that we are getting "hosed." We pony-up the cash but get treated like a bunch of digital "pirates" (aye matey ;) ) while an entire nation... (red China) gets away with ripping off Bill Gates & Hollywood. :rolleyes:

A three-year-old SA8300? Puleeeeez! :rolleyes: Where is my Series 3 HD TiVo? Where is my M-Card? And where is my 1080p SED/PDP TV with dual ATSC tuners to support all of this?

BTW... Time Warner. Verizon ran FiOS down my street so it is only a matter of time... and you know what they say about "pay back." :p