That's 34 million (cable) households with no digital STBs or services. Obviously, there's lots of 'digital' cable subscribers that also have one (or two or three) analog STB-less TVs hooked up too. That particular number doesn't get estimated all that often (pretty hard number to estimate).Okay, that's a lot higher than the AP estimate, of 21 million, and from a more technically reliable source IMHO. So with the 20 million estimated homes with some digital service but also some analog service, that's 54 million households. Getting a lot closer to my original 70 million households number, which is making me wonder if my original memory was better than I thought it was.

More discussion from filings to the FCC:

"Nothing in the November 7, 2006 proposal [the CEA proposal for cablecard standards] would delay the delivery of switched digital services, though the Commission might reasonably decide to prohibit switched digital deployment until competitive devices have access to switched digital channels. In fact, the proposal fixes for future retail devices a major problem presented by switched digital and establishes a quick and easy path toward ensuring that consumers are not disenfranchised from the content for which they have paid. The proposal would require the cable industry to modify the existing CableCARD software in a way that would allow retail devices to access switched-digital services, but it would not affect any element of the underlying switched digital service itself. As such, it is difficult to understand how the proposal would delay or preclude entirely the deployment of switched digital or any other interactive services.Interesting. I'll bet once we can get 200 HD channels w/FiOS TV... the Cable MSOs will implement SDV... pronto! ;)

Interesting. I'll bet once we can get 200 HD channels w/FiOS TV... the Cable MSOs will implement SDV... pronto! ;)
maybe, or cable will continue to push that you don't need a STB box with cable as a big plus, while at the same time telling new customers that they must have a box for every tv, if cable would just drop replace the analogs with the SD-digital equivalent channels they would have more than enough room for 50-100 HD channels (which is bordering more than currently exist, will exist in the next couple years)

.... while at the same time telling new customers that they must have a box for every tv, ...

I beleive cablevision in northern NJ at least is doing just that. I dont have them but I saw a "notice" they printed in the local paper to that effect.

On the flip side cablevision I believe is currently deploying SDV on a widespread basis for foreign language programming....

one bit about trying to esitmate analog only cable homes is that the digital numbers seems to be gaining very fast in some areas. So I think that number is dropping like mad.

But I still think there are plenty of analog sets in most digital homes.

one bit about trying to esitmate analog only cable homes is that the digital numbers seems to be gaining very fast in some areas. So I think that number is dropping like mad.

But I still think there are plenty of analog sets in most digital homes.
unless i misunderstand SDV (which is definitely possible), i assumed that a cable system could have some of their channels on SDV, while some can remain unswitched; if this is he situation i would expect that the most popular channels would remain unswitched (local networks, etc...), meaning that with a one way cc on a SDV system you could probably still get whatever channels arent moved to SDV

unless i misunderstand SDV (which is definitely possible), i assumed that a cable system could have some of their channels on SDV, while some can remain unswitched; if this is he situation i would expect that the most popular channels would remain unswitched (local networks, etc...), meaning that with a one way cc on a SDV system you could probably still get whatever channels arent moved to SDV


Many people assume things will be the way you see it. I would agree.

First off it seems possible that SDV will not be allowed by the FCC for the local channels.
Next up it makes no sense to put somethign like ESPN on SDV if there is always going to be a tv someplace in the cluster with it on. Why waste the time, effort, and equipment to put such channels on switched video when they will never switch off? It would just be more effiicent to leave such a channel on all the time like it is now with an assigned slot.
It also seems plausible that the FCC will not permit wholesale movement of all CURRENT content to SDV- they have crafted regulations and gone on the record that early adopters of HDTV shouldn't get hosed at least in regards to OTA becasue of things like HDMI- so it's possible they would step in if say Comcast were to announce that the 10-20 HD and 100ish SD digital channels they have now were to go SDV. I dont see the FCC stopping SDV for new stuff or modest switches- like pulling a few HD and a few SD cchannels people currently have to make the slots for SDV.
Last bit- as unidirectional devices get a foothold (it's tiny now but maybe now that the Tivo Series3 is a decent sized widespread deployment, and Tivo comes out with a low cost HD box, and Vista cablecard PC's come out- maybe a decent sized base gets developed). So IF "critical mass" gets hit, beyond the FCC stepping in to protect early adopters it's also likley the cable channels themselves would step in. Just like ESPN now demands carriage on the analog basic tier so boxes aren't required, they could demand in the future to have their HD channel carried in the unswitched digital tier.

So I think it's likely that little if anything we currently have will be taken away anytime soon. New content is much more dicey.

That's my opinion- there are others that seem to think cable is going to take their ENTIRE digital tier and just flip it all to switched video and make current unidirectional devices into expensive door stops in 8 months. I doubt that much myslef.

I have a Mitsubishi WD-65731 DLP TV with Cablecard slot. TV was made in late 2006.

I am using a TWC SA8300HD box instead of the Cablecard because of the DVR feature.

I also have the Sony HD-DVR (250gb) with Cablecard slot. Today, TWC came and "installed" cablecard. Actually it was a subcontractor.

I cannot get it to work properly. I'm getting him to come back. There are bunch of channels that say I cannot access them due to activation or something like that. HDNET, INHD, EPSNHD and so on...

Also, is there a TWC guide I can pull up on this box?

I have a Mitsubishi WD-65731 DLP TV with Cablecard slot. TV was made in late 2006.

I am using a TWC SA8300HD box instead of the Cablecard because of the DVR feature.

I also have the Sony HD-DVR (250gb) with Cablecard slot. Today, TWC came and "installed" cablecard. Actually it was a subcontractor.

I cannot get it to work properly. I'm getting him to come back. There are bunch of channels that say I cannot access them due to activation or something like that. HDNET, INHD, EPSNHD and so on...

Also, is there a TWC guide I can pull up on this box?

Hang in there. TWC had to make many, many trips to get mine working but once they finally did, it has worked pretty reliably ever since.

I do not know of a guide but would be interested to hear how others make up for the loss of this feature (the interactive guide.) I'm assuming I'll just check the web on a laptop.

One-way CableCards: We should give up (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=557810&page=1&pp=30). RIP! ;)

One-way CableCards: We should give up (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=557810&page=1&pp=30). RIP! ;)

"The media has frequently reported that first-generation CableCARD 1.0 modules are one-way devices1. This is simply not true."

"the manufacturers of digital TVs requested that a host standard be developed that only had one-way capability. This one-way cable-ready receiver was defined by the FCC's Plug & Play order and by the Joint Test Suite (JTS). It is the definition of this one-way receiver that lacks the ability for two-way functionality, not the CableCARD module. "

"When a CableCARD 1.0 module is used with a two-way receiver (e.g., Samsung HLR5067C) that card supports all the necessary two-way functionality for VOD, SDV, and other interactive services." http://www.opencable.com/primer/cablecard_primer.html

"The media has frequently reported that first-generation CableCARD 1.0 modules are one-way devices1. This is simply not true."

"the manufacturers of digital TVs requested that a host standard be developed that only had one-way capability. This one-way cable-ready receiver was defined by the FCC's Plug & Play order and by the Joint Test Suite (JTS). It is the definition of this one-way receiver that lacks the ability for two-way functionality, not the CableCARD module. "

"When a CableCARD 1.0 module is used with a two-way receiver (e.g., Samsung HLR5067C) that card supports all the necessary two-way functionality for VOD, SDV, and other interactive services." http://www.opencable.com/primer/cablecard_primer.html
is there a list of HDTV's that have two-way receivers? or an easy way to tell if an HDTV has a one-way or two-way receiver when poking around on cnet, or amazon, etc...?

is there a list of HDTV's that have two-way receivers? or an easy way to tell if an HDTV has a one-way or two-way receiver when poking around on cnet, or amazon, etc...?If it's for sale and available ... it's a one way host.

There are currently no two-way hosts available for sale for consumers. The only two way hosts that have been developed have been for various lab and field trials.

If it's for sale and available ... it's a one way host.

There are currently no two-way hosts available for sale for consumers. The only two way hosts that have been developed have been for various lab and field trials.
so the samsung that was mentioned in the previous post was just a prototype or something similar? ie not fit for consumption

so the samsung that was mentioned in the previous post was just a prototype or something similar? ie not fit for consumptionIt (and some other two-way hosts) are being used by the cable companies for testing. They have alot of stuff they have to roll out too to support two-way hosts. Even if you could get a two-way host right now ... it's only going to have the possibility of (currently) working on a few cable plants. Samsung et al aren't going to roll out two-way products for consumers until cable plants roll out the support / infrastructure needed and those two way products actually have a chance of providing two-way functionality for customers.

"The media has frequently reported that first-generation CableCARD 1.0 modules are one-way devices1. This is simply not true."

"the manufacturers of digital TVs requested that a host standard be developed that only had one-way capability. This one-way cable-ready receiver was defined by the FCC's Plug & Play order and by the Joint Test Suite (JTS). It is the definition of this one-way receiver that lacks the ability for two-way functionality, not the CableCARD module. "

"When a CableCARD 1.0 module is used with a two-way receiver (e.g., Samsung HLR5067C) that card supports all the necessary two-way functionality for VOD, SDV, and other interactive services." http://www.opencable.com/primer/cablecard_primer.html
I completely agree with this statement. SA has told me multiple times that all of their past deployed cable cards work with two way services, and it's just the host device that does not send the return signals. They can use the current CC's in the newly deployed STB's that are being released and used as the decryption is being removed from the STB. The two way service is STANDARD in all digital cable STB's already. Seperating the decryption from the STB and using the CC is just a formality that adds costs to the STB, but all the functionality is still there.

vegggas

"The media has frequently reported that first-generation CableCARD 1.0 modules are one-way devices1. This is simply not true."

"the manufacturers of digital TVs requested that a host standard be developed that only had one-way capability. This one-way cable-ready receiver was defined by the FCC's Plug & Play order and by the Joint Test Suite (JTS). It is the definition of this one-way receiver that lacks the ability for two-way functionality, not the CableCARD module. "

"When a CableCARD 1.0 module is used with a two-way receiver (e.g., Samsung HLR5067C) that card supports all the necessary two-way functionality for VOD, SDV, and other interactive services." http://www.opencable.com/primer/cablecard_primer.htmlThe authentication mechanism: one/two-way CableCARD and/or DCAS is inconsequential to me... however what is important is the advent of two-way capable DCR devices that will free subscribers from the shackle of their CATV provider's SA8300. ;)

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9710918-1.html?tag=cnetfd.blog

Anybody care to comment on the significance of what is discussed in this article?

Brandon

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9710918-1.html?tag=cnetfd.blog

Anybody care to comment on the significance of what is discussed in this article?

Brandon

July 1 is a day the cablecos are not looking forward to: but it is good news for cablecards and those of us who want to select our own stb

We shall see: expect some integration issues with new boxes purchased from third party suppliers :expect the cablecos to blame all the problems on the new boxes

Expect some equipment shortages as well, that appt date to get a DVR installed may take longer now depending on supplies.

Apparently Comcast in Chicago, since going to a near all digital system, is having trouble supplying enough converter boxes for those subs who lost their analog Expanded Basic channels in the switchover.

I'm curious what the monthly rate will be on these CC boxes, if there will be any difference from the current rate.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9710918-1.html?tag=cnetfd.blog
Anybody care to comment on the significance of what is discussed in this article?
Brandon
i was under the impression that PPV events were could still be viewed through cablecards (i guess it depends on what one means by PPV), but you just can't order them through your box (or lack there of), you have to call the cable co; i'm thinking in terms of sports packages (ESPN Gameplan, MLBEI, etc), NOT VOD, i really hope some of the other OEM's make a HD dual tuner/recorder box that does PIP that undercuts TivoS3 (which is WAY too expensive in my book, it should either cost as much as it does with free service, or should cost a couple hundred and then have a service charge, BUT NOT BOTH!!!) basically i want a SA8300HD that isnt quite as crabby about HDCP, with at least a 300 GB HD that i can own ; i'd get a sony HDG but TVGOS is really buggy, so hopefully these new boxes will use the guide data from the cable co, or download it from the internet or something.....
EDIT: i just went to motorola's website and looked at their boxes, is one of these manufacturers going to add the ability to use the box as a media streamer? so i can do things like stream mpeg2 HD transport streams over 100Mb SMB share? cuz that would make me ruin my pants

i was under the impression that PPV events were could still be viewed through cablecards (i guess it depends on what one means by PPV), but you just can't order them through your box (or lack there of), you have to call the cable co; i'm thinking in terms of sports packages (ESPN Gameplan, MLBEI, etc), NOT VOD, i really hope some of the other OEM's make a HD dual tuner/recorder box that does PIP that undercuts TivoS3 (which is WAY too expensive in my book, it should either cost as much as it does with free service, or should cost a couple hundred and then have a service charge, BUT NOT BOTH!!!) basically i want a SA8300HD that isnt quite as crabby about HDCP, with at least a 300 GB HD that i can own ; i'd get a sony HDG but TVGOS is really buggy, so hopefully these new boxes will use the guide data from the cable co, or download it from the internet or something.....
EDIT: i just went to motorola's website and looked at their boxes, is one of these manufacturers going to add the ability to use the box as a media streamer? so i can do things like stream mpeg2 HD transport streams over 100Mb SMB share? cuz that would make me ruin my pants



you may not like the price of the tivo series 3 but it's not insanely inflated in relation to hardware costs.

In Canada you can buy your own cable box instead of renting. The typical Cable DVRs have similar MSRP's as the tivo Series 3 and Internet posts from best buy employees seem to indicate the wholesale prices are similar. The tivo comes with a larger hard drive, TWO cablecard slots (which add 40-140 to the cost of production depending on who's estimate you want to believe) and has MPEG4 abilities.

I think the sony's where in the same ballpark before they stopped making them- no?

So HD DVR's just cost money to produce right now. Tivo is working on a next generation "low cost" HD DVR. Panasonic is working on a next generation DVR for comcast- my WAG is with better integration and newer designs and perhaps some scaled back feature sets they can get those boxes in the ballpark of 300 dollars to start when they arrive in 2008 maybe dropping to a couple hundred in 2009.

doesn't make it any more palatable but that's the reality I'm afraid.

Also in regards to the PPV/VOD/interactive ability of the cable company deployed boxes- the FCC ruling doesn't say they have to follow an open standard for 2-way features- only for the decryption. So they will buy boxes from Mota and SA that are still proprietary for ordering PPV and the like that just use the cablecards to decode.

Unless the FCC wakes up and forces a 2-way standard agreeable to all on cable then the 3rd party people like Tivo will have a long row to hoe....

Expect some equipment shortages as well, that appt date to get a DVR installed may take longer now depending on supplies.

Apparently Comcast in Chicago, since going to a near all digital system, is having trouble supplying enough converter boxes for those subs who lost their analog Expanded Basic channels in the switchover.

I'm curious what the monthly rate will be on these CC boxes, if there will be any difference from the current rate.


In a recent FCC filing - RCN said they were having trouble getting cablecards as motorolla has stopped producing S-cards and is switching over to M-card production....

Comcast has been running TV ads that are touting the digital cable self install kit, basically a no-frills converter box. They are obviously desperatly trying to get rid of them before July 1st since after that date they will have to send them back, or eat the cost of their leftover inventory, or something like that.

I'm concerned because I'm moving apartments on July 1st, and if I turn in my DVR, then I'll probably have to wait a while to get one installed. They keep harping this Triple Play deal, which is probably what I'll get, if they really want people to sign up for it, they'll let me get that deal when I move, meaning I can keep my DVR box...

Comcast has been running TV ads that are touting the digital cable self install kit, basically a no-frills converter box. They are obviously desperatly trying to get rid of them before July 1st since after that date they will have to send them back, or eat the cost of their leftover inventory, or something like that.

I'm concerned because I'm moving apartments on July 1st, and if I turn in my DVR, then I'll probably have to wait a while to get one installed. They keep harping this Triple Play deal, which is probably what I'll get, if they really want people to sign up for it, they'll let me get that deal when I move, meaning I can keep my DVR box...

I seriously doubt the cable companies will be eating any stbs. I haven't hunted the fcc website for the definition of "deployment" but just as the MSOs could not purchase STBs with HDMI or IEEE 1394 after June 30th but could use what they had previously purchased, I have to assume that they will be allowed to replace broken units with the same type STB if they have them in stock.

I cannot see the FCC forcing the MSO to eat equipment at a loss - because otherwise they would be in a position where they could not reuse devices that are turned back in on accounts either.

I suspect the deployment (though again, I have not looked it up) contains some language about exhausting their current inventory.

My understanding is that it is actually the opposite: They won't actually be able to provide a non-CC-enabled box to a customer after July 1, regardless of when it was manufactured or acquired. Does anyone know for sure?

My understanding is that it is actually the opposite: They won't actually be able to provide a non-CC-enabled box to a customer after July 1, regardless of when it was manufactured or acquired. Does anyone know for sure?
That was the way I understood it as well. Since the FCC has already given the cablecos a pass on two previous dates it would seem to make sense that new deployment and replacement would have to be with the new boxes. Our local thread has a few posts with some links that talks about it, I'll see if I can hunt them down later.

Possibly related, Comcast in the SF bay area has a promotion where you can get up to 4 DCT700's free as long as you have digital cable. Presumably this would be the old non-CC boxes that they may be tying to get out into the field before the ban, and, to coax subs into accepting a digital Expanded Basic signal delivery to reclaim bandwidth much like they are doing in Chicago. I know that Comcast bay area has had the DCT700s at the supply depot for quite some time but until now, there never seemed to be very many deployed.

I cannot see the FCC forcing the MSO to eat equipment at a loss - because otherwise they would be in a position where they could not reuse devices that are turned back in on accounts either.
"Under FCC rules, boxes that have already been put into service by July 1 may be redeployed for other customers if an operator chooses to do so." (from multichannel.com (http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6433928.html))

However, if a particular box was never deployed before July 1, then that box cannot be deployed on or after July 1 unless it supports CableCARD.

"Under FCC rules, boxes that have already been put into service by July 1 may be redeployed for other customers if an operator chooses to do so." (from multichannel.com (http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6433928.html))

However, if a particular box was never deployed before July 1, then that box cannot be deployed on or after July 1 unless it supports CableCARD.
Ah, there's that loophole the cablecos needed, who the heck is going to police what boxes have been deployed and which ones haven't?

Cable company to the FCC: "Those gazillion non-CC STBs stacked up in that warehouse? Well, yes, of course all of them have been in field at least once before the July 1 deadline" :p

That sure does make sense, then, why they're trying to get them all deployed. I should see if they'll give me a free extra one for a year.

Ah, there's that loophole the cablecos needed, who the heck is going to police what boxes have been deployed and which ones haven't?

Cable company to the FCC: "Those gazillion non-CC STBs stacked up in that warehouse? Well, yes, of course all of them have been in field at least once before the July 1 deadline" :p

but isn't there a record of this? the cablecos keep computerized records of what boxes are deployed to which customer and I doubt they would tamper with these records:

I am sure they have to regularly report the data to the FCC

I really think the cablecos dropped the ball on Cablecards: they tried to ignore them, then criticized them, hoping they would quietly go away...

instead they could have spent the time training the headend and installers on how to efficiently deploy a Cablecard, and saved thousands of hours troubleshooting them and blaming others.

Now they have to hurry to be ready for 1 July: a date already set back twice

You know...it is not rocket science :o

but isn't there a record of this? the cablecos keep computerized records of what boxes are deployed to which customer and I doubt they would tamper with these records:

I am sure they have to regularly report the data to the FCCEven if the cablecos provided all of the information to the FCC, I doubt the FCC has the manpower needed to pour through the data and crack down on MSO's for non-compliance. Look at the IRS, they're struggling to make sure everyone pays their "fair share" of taxes. I read somewhere that they are about 3 years behind on their auditing. And that's real money involved. Cable companies doing a little voodoo with their equipment books will hardly get anyone in the FCC worked up.

I guess if the cable companies got greedy and wanted to take some creative depreciation on their cable boxes, they might get the IRS interested. But I doubt the accountants would be that stupid ... but then again, there's always an Enron out there.

I really think the cablecos dropped the ball on Cablecards: they tried to ignore them, then criticized them, hoping they would quietly go away...

instead they could have spent the time training the headend and installers on how to efficiently deploy a Cablecard, and saved thousands of hours troubleshooting them and blaming others.I absolutely agree. If the cable companies worked with the CE manufacturers and had a real game plan, they would have an even bigger advantage over the DBS providers. Putting CableCards on the big, high-end TV's wasn't the way to go.

They needed to put them on the smaller, secondary TV sets. I suspect very few people would mind using a STB on their main TV set. It's the ones in the kitchen, den, bedroom, and garages that are key. These are the sets that really need CableCard.

If they had gotten people to use them, we'd have CE manufacturers building 2-way capabilities into their TVs by now. This would be good for the consumer and it would be good for the cable companies as they can tout the no-box feature.

I normally don't like the gov't and FCC mandating things, but maybe they should have mandated CableCard slots in all TVs, not just ATSC tuners.

ft

but isn't there a record of this? the cablecos keep computerized records of what boxes are deployed to which customer and I doubt they would tamper with these records:

I am sure they have to regularly report the data to the FCC

I really think the cablecos dropped the ball on Cablecards: they tried to ignore them, then criticized them, hoping they would quietly go away...

instead they could have spent the time training the headend and installers on how to efficiently deploy a Cablecard, and saved thousands of hours troubleshooting them and blaming others.

Now they have to hurry to be ready for 1 July: a date already set back twice

You know...it is not rocket science :o
They might be keeping records, but you go to a local office and there's STBs stacked in cabinets, in backrooms, warehouses, back of trucks, etc. and they get deployed by service techs and customers themselves. I just don't see a real concise record keeping system there. Often bad equipment is redeployed because no one has marked a bad unit when it's been returned.

Comcast in this area just started getting host ID info for CableCARDS that's apparently required by the FCC. Maybe they already keep that info for STBs themselves. I'm sure they keep data of some sort. A more detailed read of the mandate might reveal that such records are to be forwarded to the FCC but as ftaok notes, does the FCC have the resources to police those records?

My above remark was partly in jest, but it would seem to fit the situation, get as many STBs "deployed" before the ban so they can be reused for who knows how long down the road.

From what we've seen of the regulation so far, a cableco could continue to reuse those STBs for years until they have own new OCAP system in place. It's conceivable a sub may never see a CC-enabled STB from the cable company.

I know that Moto and SA have started building the boxes, but I can't see a cableco spending that much capitol on a STB that they already plan to replace as soon as possible with the new system. If cable was all hunk-dory with this mandate they wouldn't have been fighting so hard to keep pushing it back, trying to delay it until it became a moot point due to the new conditional access system.

I haven't been able to find a definition of "deployed" and I looked. If i remember when I searched the entire online database of FCC regulations for the term there is one mention of that word from when they got deregulated relating to how they were to depreciate and charge for equipment that had been deployed to that point. It was never defined at that moment in the regulation either. But there might have been some rulings way back when- I'm not so good at searching for those at the FCC website.

I think if a company orders 10 million boxes to sit in a warehouse on June 30 then the FCC will likely do something if someone points that out to them but if they have a few tens of thousands it's likely they will ship them from the warehouse to service depots or even put them in the vans and then call that "deployed". Who's to say it's not if there is no definition anyplace of that term.

In the absence of a government sanctioned definition then the company's are free to decide what they want. See the CEA's defition of "HD", tobacco's definition of "light cigarette", etc, etc.

but isn't there a record of this? the cablecos keep computerized records of what boxes are deployed to which customer and I doubt they would tamper with these records:


Or they can do what they did in my situation. I just got cable installed 2 weeks ago and I specifically called twice before install to make sure a tech was coming out with a CableCard and I did NOT order a set top box. When the tech got there he had no CC and arranged for another tech to come out with one later on, and proceeded to install a HD-DVR and Cablebox and told me it was my lucky day and that I would be getting it "for free."

Now, the $11-15 set top box rental may or may not show up on my first bill (I've already spoken to somebody about charges on my account and they have not gone up), but the fact remains that they have one more STB "deployed" out in the field.

You may see a lot of "accidental" deployments like mine, even if they are only out in the field for one month before given back (which I will do if they start charging me for it).

Brandon

Or they can do what they did in my situation. I just got cable installed 2 weeks ago and I specifically called twice before install to make sure a tech was coming out with a CableCard and I did NOT order a set top box. When the tech got there he had no CC and arranged for another tech to come out with one later on, and proceeded to install a HD-DVR and Cablebox and told me it was my lucky day and that I would be getting it "for free."

Now, the $11-15 set top box rental may or may not show up on my first bill (I've already spoken to somebody about charges on my account and they have not gone up), but the fact remains that they have one more STB "deployed" out in the field.

You may see a lot of "accidental" deployments like mine, even if they are only out in the field for one month before given back (which I will do if they start charging me for it).

Brandon


I think that's a lot of effort for them to be bothered. They'll get stuck with a truck roll or 2 more by playing such games which might just approach the premium that the cablecard costs compared to these older boxes.


I think the offers of free digital boxes now are just them trying to get people hooked on the digital tier rather than some need to deploy piles of new boxes before the deadline.

Despite what cable says it's not going to add 300 a box to use cablecards. If WAG it costs 50 more a box, is it worth deploying tons more boxes and putting out tons of capital months before you would otherwise just to save 50 dollars today? (why give out 10 free boxes today if only 1 of those people were going to want a box in the next 12 months. Wouldn't it be cheaper just to suck up the extra 50 bucks 5 months down the road rather than spending 1,000 today to get more boxes deployed?) By rushing to deploy this generation of boxes you shoot yourself in the foot when you go to deploy OCAP and DCAS next year because now you have piles of pre-ocap boxes in the field. And who knows maybe sales of those OCaP TV's really soar next year so those people go straight from no box and analog to their OCAP TV without a box. So there's some give and take as to how wise it is to push the pre-july boxes down people's throats.

So I dont think solely it makes sense to push digital boxes just top beat the deadline. But it can be another positive to factor in if you are thinking of pushing digital for other reasons (marketing, regain analog spectrum, etc, etc)

But you did make me think one thing. It might make sense for them to start to build inventory right now- not by just buying piles of new boxes to sit in a warehouse but rather they could buy piles of new boxes to deploy and then when they take back boxes put them in a warehouse for a few months rather then turning them around ASAP. Instead of reusing old stock first just let the old stock sit on the shelf and use the new stock first. That would build your supply of "previously deployed" boxes modestly without being too overt and not blasting through tons of new capital.

Okay, so I'd like to give a little update to my CableCard situation.

On the FIFTH appointment to have a CableCard installed, the tech finally shows up. Although he showed up 40 minutes after the appointment window, so technically I sat at home 5 times now without a guy showing up in the appointment window with a cablecard.

Anyway, the CableCard immediately gives a 161-4 error reading, the home office tells him to bypass it, but my tv just keeps showing the error code and no diagnostic information at all. Anybody have suggestions? I've searched around on this error reading and even found a thread about it on AVS with my specific tv model (xbr1 lcd) and found no resolution.

Brandon

I have a Sony 30XS955 CRT and have been getting two cable card errors 161-4 and 161-6. They have replaced my card once. They have on prior visits checked my cable box, checked the outside box, checked the main box for my neighborhood. They have no idea. They are coming again on Saturday. I told them to bring someone who is their best Cable Card tech.

I see yours is a Sony also. Maybe it has something to do with the Sony firmware and not the cable card. Hopefully I get some answers Saturday.

Can we forward the link to this thread to an oversight committee?

The consumer harassment on cable cards needs to be answered for.

I think that's a lot of effort for them to be bothered. They'll get stuck with a truck roll or 2 more by playing such games which might just approach the premium that the cablecard costs compared to these older boxes.


I think the offers of free digital boxes now are just them trying to get people hooked on the digital tier rather than some need to deploy piles of new boxes before the deadline.

Despite what cable says it's not going to add 300 a box to use cablecards. If WAG it costs 50 more a box, is it worth deploying tons more boxes and putting out tons of capital months before you would otherwise just to save 50 dollars today? (why give out 10 free boxes today if only 1 of those people were going to want a box in the next 12 months. Wouldn't it be cheaper just to suck up the extra 50 bucks 5 months down the road rather than spending 1,000 today to get more boxes deployed?) By rushing to deploy this generation of boxes you shoot yourself in the foot when you go to deploy OCAP and DCAS next year because now you have piles of pre-ocap boxes in the field. And who knows maybe sales of those OCaP TV's really soar next year so those people go straight from no box and analog to their OCAP TV without a box. So there's some give and take as to how wise it is to push the pre-july boxes down people's throats.

So I dont think solely it makes sense to push digital boxes just top beat the deadline. But it can be another positive to factor in if you are thinking of pushing digital for other reasons (marketing, regain analog spectrum, etc, etc)

But you did make me think one thing. It might make sense for them to start to build inventory right now- not by just buying piles of new boxes to sit in a warehouse but rather they could buy piles of new boxes to deploy and then when they take back boxes put them in a warehouse for a few months rather then turning them around ASAP. Instead of reusing old stock first just let the old stock sit on the shelf and use the new stock first. That would build your supply of "previously deployed" boxes modestly without being too overt and not blasting through tons of new capital.

You're leaving opportunity costs out of the equation. Cable's fear is loss of one touch button special fees (ppv, etc). When I got my cablecard runaround like others here, every phone call was accompanied by an emotional warning that on demand and cable guide wouldn't be available! Oh MY GOD! Thanks you Lord for having the cable company looking out for me like a guardian angel! Pulease. Get those boxes installed and start selling services....

But, but... this means I won't be able to watch "The Chronicles of Riddick" on-demand for the umpteenth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umpteen) time? :eek:

Premium Movie Channels... I think not.

Can we forward the link to this thread to an oversight committee?No. Threads are useless in that regard. Rather, people have to file individual grievances with their own local franchising authorities, and then if they don't get satisfaction, with the FCC.

By rushing to deploy this generation of boxes you shoot yourself in the foot when you go to deploy OCAP and DCAS next year because now you have piles of pre-ocap boxes in the field. And who knows maybe sales of those OCaP TV's really soar next year so those people go straight from no box and analog to their OCAP TV without a box.Do you really believe this will happen during 2008? I'm done spending BIG $$$$ on A/V equipment until interactive (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=104590&modelNo=Content01072007024440900&surfModel=Content01072007024440900) TVs become available, but that may not come to fruition anytime soon.

When I got my cablecard runaround like others here, every phone call was accompanied by an emotional warning that on demand and cable guide wouldn't be available! Oh MY GOD! Thanks you Lord for having the cable company looking out for me like a guardian angel! Pulease. Get those boxes installed and start selling services....

I didn't want to be too elaborate and dump on Comcast too much in my original post about my CableCard update, but I might as well:

When the tech initially got the 161-4 error message, he called into dispatch as I said, and after waiting on hold (as if he were a customer) for 20 minutes, the lady picks up and instead of them troubleshooting the issue, she gave one suggestion and then found out I already have a STB. Once she found out I had a STB she spent the next 5-10 minutes asking why I wanted a CableCard if I had a STB and urging the on-site technician to let me know I'd be losing premium services.

The funny part about that is that, as I've said earlier in this thread, I never ordered a STB! I originally ordered a CableCard right from the first call, but the tech showed up with a STB and no CableCard, so I was stuck with the STB while I waited 5 times for a tech to show up with CableCard, only to have nobody show up in that window 5 times. So since I settled on keeping the STB until a CableCard could be installed, now the lady wants to spend 5-10 minutes of the tech's (and my) time talking about how silly it is for me to want both.

I found that pretty condescending, and I had been through it before, so I left the room while they talked on speakerphone and searched this forum for answers and suggestions on the 161-4 error code. The tech actually was defending me to a degree while on the phone with the home office saying "it really isn't my place to question the customer's motivation for having CableCard, it's his preference so I'm just trying to install it." But the problem was that the lady on the phone wouldn't help him AT ALL the entire time. After he FINALLY convinced her I should be allowed to have CableCard if I wanted to, she would continually conjure up excuses as to why CableCard may not work with the STB.

"I've never even heard of CAbleCard working with a STB installed on the same TV." The tech responds by saying it shouldn't be a factor.

"Maybe the STB is causing issues when the TV is trying to recognize the CableCard?" The tech responds by saying the STB is on a separate input and is going to the TV via HDMI, so it isn't even in the loop. It's out of the equation.

At this point the lady, who has not spent even 30 seconds troubleshooting (STB issues aside) and only given one suggestion the entire time ("just bypass the error code, it doesn't mean anything") acts as if she is stumped and out of suggestions, so the tech pretty much says "look I'll call you back" and hangs up on her. Oh yeah, of course she blamed my TV for the issues several times as well. I will call Sony at some point to see if they have any word on this, but considering I've already wasted 5 appointments on this install, I'm not too eager to start the process again.

Brandon

here is what I got when I chatted with Sony rep today.

user Joe has entered room

analyst Simon. has entered room

Simon.> Hi Joe. Welcome to Sony Online Support. I'm Simon. Please allow me a moment to review your concern.

Joe > Hi

Simon.> Thanks for waiting, Joe. I understand that there is an error message .Is that correct?

Joe > That is correct. 2 errors 161-6, 161-4. I get both and they say to contact cable company

Simon.> Thanks for confirming. I'll be glad to assist you with this.

Joe > Its very frustrating as Comcast has no answers how to fix this.

Simon.> I'm sorry Joe while you are getting this error message at this position I'll also suggest you to contact your cable Service Provider but for your reference and convience I would like to forward a link to a page where you can find some troubleshooting steps to resolve this issue.

Simon.> http://www.iq.sony.com/srvs/autoresponsev4.asp?id=350026

Simon.> When you receive the link please click on it to open the page and let me know if you are able to view it.

Simon.> Are you able to view the page?

Joe > I am able to view it. Comcast is coming out again tomorrow. So its not a firmware issue then?

Simon.> Yes, it may be due to the same reason.

Simon.> Is there anything else I may assist you today? I'll be glad to do so.

Joe > I am a little confused. Are you saying it may be a problem internally with the tv firmware, in that case Comcast will not be able to resolve the issue.

Simon.> No, Joe Error 161-6 - The symptom appears as a recurring error message stating that a technical problem is preventing you from receiving all cable services at this time.

Simon.> 161-4 - The CableCARD device and the television are not communicating temporarily. This usually happens when the cable company is downloading firmware to the CableCARD, making the card unable to respond to user commands

Simon.> So, I suggest you to follow the steps mentioned in the provided link and if the issue still persist contact your cable service provider.

Joe > Okay, Thanks. Hopefully they will be able to resolve the issue then. I had seen other messages on the internet where they say Sony needs to do a firmware update.

Joe > I was just worried since I am out of warranty that I would not be able to get this fixed if it was a Sony issue.

Simon.> I'm sorry Joe but first I suggest you that let the Cable Service Provider inspect the cable Card, and after their troubleshooting then suggest you to contact Sony Service center because this issue normally occurs from the Cable Service Provider end.

Simon.> I hope this information is helpful to you.

Simon.> Is there anything else I may assist you today? I'll be glad to do so.

Joe > Thanks, thats all.

Here are all the error codes for CableCARDS provided by Cable Labs. Page 260 pdf format is where you will find the 161-04 and 161-06 error messages.



www.opencable.com/downloads/specs/OC-SP-CCIF2.0-I07-060803.pdf



Usually on a Motorola system a Cold Init followed by a refresh will help bring your channels in after a 161-04 error. Also another thing to check would be your Conditional Access menu to check your State 4.05 CC or Authorization 4.21 CC to see if you card is subscribed or disabled. Then also Enable by CP, should be yes, if they have all of your pairing information correct. If any of thes say disabled, not subscribed, there is usually something wrong at the Head End or in the Cable Co. billing system. If none of this works they could possibly have you on the wrong Down stream plant. The way to check this is to have them compare the nodes that the cable box is on campared to the CableCARD.

Thanks Ranger, I went to that link and it has more information availble than needed plus many more error codes. Thanks hopefully the cable tech will be able to make our CC work properly

I didn't want to be too elaborate and dump on Comcast too much in my original post about my CableCard update, but I might as well:

When the tech initially got the 161-4 error message, he called into dispatch as I said, and after waiting on hold (as if he were a customer) for 20 minutes, the lady picks up and instead of them troubleshooting the issue, she gave one suggestion and then found out I already have a STB. Once she found out I had a STB she spent the next 5-10 minutes asking why I wanted a CableCard if I had a STB and urging the on-site technician to let me know I'd be losing premium services.

The funny part about that is that, as I've said earlier in this thread, I never ordered a STB! I originally ordered a CableCard right from the first call, but the tech showed up with a STB and no CableCard, so I was stuck with the STB while I waited 5 times for a tech to show up with CableCard, only to have nobody show up in that window 5 times. So since I settled on keeping the STB until a CableCard could be installed, now the lady wants to spend 5-10 minutes of the tech's (and my) time talking about how silly it is for me to want both.

I found that pretty condescending, and I had been through it before, so I left the room while they talked on speakerphone and searched this forum for answers and suggestions on the 161-4 error code. The tech actually was defending me to a degree while on the phone with the home office saying "it really isn't my place to question the customer's motivation for having CableCard, it's his preference so I'm just trying to install it." But the problem was that the lady on the phone wouldn't help him AT ALL the entire time. After he FINALLY convinced her I should be allowed to have CableCard if I wanted to, she would continually conjure up excuses as to why CableCard may not work with the STB.

"I've never even heard of CAbleCard working with a STB installed on the same TV." The tech responds by saying it shouldn't be a factor.

"Maybe the STB is causing issues when the TV is trying to recognize the CableCard?" The tech responds by saying the STB is on a separate input and is going to the TV via HDMI, so it isn't even in the loop. It's out of the equation.

At this point the lady, who has not spent even 30 seconds troubleshooting (STB issues aside) and only given one suggestion the entire time ("just bypass the error code, it doesn't mean anything") acts as if she is stumped and out of suggestions, so the tech pretty much says "look I'll call you back" and hangs up on her. Oh yeah, of course she blamed my TV for the issues several times as well. I will call Sony at some point to see if they have any word on this, but considering I've already wasted 5 appointments on this install, I'm not too eager to start the process again.

Brandon

Dont feel like you've taken the "low road" here. My story with Comcast 3000 miles away was very similar. My first tech also showed up with a new shiny stb and was all perplexed about a cablecard order. What cablecard order, it says here a new stb??? Would they behave this way if they were on 60 minutes doing a cablecard call?

Thanks for all of your input guys. I'm going to print some of this stuff out and show it to them for the next visit. Hopefully I'll get something accomplished soon.

I have to get CableCard working by the time I buy a new TV (late summer) because the CableCard TV will be going in the bedroom and I do NOT want a STB in there.

Brandon

Comcast came today and replaced 2 cards. Still having issues. They are bringing a test tv set to my house Monday to determine if the issue is the card or my Sony TV.

I have a brother and a friend of mine that are using cable cards, my brother was a Time Warner customer after which comcast bought all the time warner customers in my and our viewing area, when my brother was with Time Warner, he NEVER had 1 hic'up with cable card, now that he is with Comcast, he has lot's of problems, with a friend of mine the situation is the same, everything with time warner everything was fine, but hearing what's going on with comcasts support on the cable card is dissipointing.
What support or service do we customers have to make comcast or any cable company to make them accountable to have these cable cards to work correctly?
Who or what makes them make thesse cable cards to work??
Comcast has big plans for the 2009 Digital Switch'over, and you won't like it....
KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK ON THIS THREAD, DO NOT GIVE UP THE CABLE CARD!!!!

Comcast is so unresponsive it is frustrating

I am an elected official in my town and on the committee that negotiates contracts with several providers including Comcast:

I still cannot get reliable cablecard service even though I know some of the folks there that have the authority to make things right should they care to do so

As soon as FIOS is available on my street, I intend to jump ship

In the meantime I continue to demand they get the Cablecards to work properly: it is not rocket science

What support or service do we customers have to make comcast or any cable company to make them accountable to have these cable cards to work correctly?


As consumers we have all the power, well usually... Without competition, one company can dictate to us what is available. When competition arrives, they bank on our short term memory to be erased, as is usually the case, and our need for instant gratification will still be present. when Verizon FIOS is available to you, the Cable Company cablecard will mysteriously be easy to use and come at a discount. You'll be happy, so will they.

As consumers we have all the power, well usually... Without competition, one company can dictate to us what is available. When competition arrives, they bank on our short term memory to be erased, as is usually the case, and our need for instant gratification will still be present. when Verizon FIOS is available to you, the Cable Company cablecard will mysteriously be easy to use and come at a discount. You'll be happy, so will they.Verizon supports CableCARDs too, don't they?

Yes.

when Verizon FIOS is available to you, the Cable Company cablecard will mysteriously be easy to use and come at a discount. You'll be happy, so will they. That has not been the case in this area. As a matter of fact the cable company is about to implement switched digital so unless you have a two way cc (not avail as far as I know) CC TVs, DVRs (read Tivo 3) will be useless.

An update from the FCC:

It looks like a solution is in the works for cablecards and sdv. According to a 6/6/07 filing by the NCTA:


"Switched Digital Video. Switched Digital Video (“SDV”) is a significant bandwidth
management technology employed by cable operators to offer more programming
choices, more High Definition, Standard Definition, and on-demand channels; to
deliver faster Internet access speeds and the innovative services those speeds enable,
including digital voice service; and to deploy more interactive two-way services.6
When TiVo raised concerns that its one-way DVRs could not access two-way SDV
linear channels, the cable industry responded promptly and engineers from cable and
TiVo are working now to find a solution. TiVo’s President and CEO Tom Rogers
recently testified that “There is good news. We have pointed out this problem to the
cable industry. To their great credit, they have said, we want to work this out, we
want to work this through…. We are hopeful that it will be solved.”"

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6519517119

It looks like a solution is in the works for cablecards and sdv. According to a 6/6/07 filing by the NCTA:


We have pointed out this problem to the cable industry. To their great credit, they have said, we want to work this out, we want to work this through…. We are hopeful that it will be solved.”" http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6519517119 This reference not an update from the FCC it is from the cable industry telling the FCC how great things are progressing. It appears to be an attempt to sidestep the FCC intent. The key words are "want to work this out" and "hopeful". Comcast and TW as transitioning now. Cox will not be far behind. I wonder how long the consumer will have to wait while they "work this out". So while they are working this out, all of the privately owned DVRs are paper weights. And viewers who currently use cable cards within their TVs will have to rent a stb from their provider. I don't believe this is what the FCC had in mind.

That has not been the case in this area. As a matter of fact the cable company is about to implement switched digital so unless you have a two way cc (not avail as far as I know) CC TVs, DVRs (read Tivo 3) will be useless.Think of those happy TiVo S3 owners who are about to acquire what was formally a $799 and is now going to be a $599 (http://www.tivo.com/2.0.boxdetails.asp?box=series3HDDVR) doorstop. :eek:

Time Warner - all the best :rolleyes:

SDV is the only reason I did not buy an S3. ;)

BTW... Panasonic dropped CableCARD support for all of it's 07' PDPs (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelComparisonResults?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&catGroupId=24973&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702&surfCategory=Plasma%20TVs&items=112102|112103|112104|127058|), so guess where CableCARD technology is headed.

To be fair, AFAIK, SDV will only affect networks of lesser importance. Of the networks I watch, I suspect only BBC America would likely be affected. As far as anyone knows, most of everything else I watch will probably be safe from SDV for a good while, if not forever.

To be fair, AFAIK, SDV will only affect networks of lesser importance.
Is ESPN2 HD of lesser importance? Read this...
Here in Lincoln, ESPN2-HD isn't available to Cablecard customers. On this graphic in small print at the bottom, it says "Not all services available to Cable Card customers, including ESPN2-HD."

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Nebraska/programming/emailGfx/NewChannels.html (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10735636&&#post10735636)

Is ESPN2 HD of lesser importance? It sure is to me. There are 24 hours in the day ESPN (1) HD can broadcast "important" sports programming.

To be fair, AFAIK, SDV will only affect networks of lesser importance. Of the networks I watch, I suspect only BBC America would likely be affected. As far as anyone knows, most of everything else I watch will probably be safe from SDV for a good while, if not forever.So do you want your CATV provider to determine which channels can be recorded & which ones cannot? Will there going to be a corresponding reduction in the cable TV bill?

What does what I "want" have to do with anything? :confused: I'm talking about reality, not hopes and dreams.

Cable bills will continue to reflect customer perceived value, i.e., how much we're willing to pay.

What does what I "want" have to do with anything? :confused:It's still your money until it leaves your pocket. :) Cable bills will continue to reflect customer perceived value, i.e., how much we're willing to pay.Precisely, which is why since getting into this HDTV nonsense of a hobby my cable bill has steadily declined from an all-time high of ~$160 to ~$60 per month. ;)

It's still your money until it leaves your pocket. :) True, but that just contributes to the decision to purchase or not to purchase. What an individual wants doesn't govern what that individual is charged.

Precisely, which is why since getting into this HDTV nonsense of a hobby my cable bill has steadily declined from an all-time high of ~$160 to ~$60 per month. ;)Indeed. Lack of willingness on the part of the consumer to pay has decimated the choices available in many sectors. For example, there used to be several competitors to TiVo in that space, including LG and Sony, but neither of those offer their products for sale in the United States any longer.

Regarding SDV ...

How quickly does the system react to a request for a certain channel.

Lets say that I want to watch ESPN2-HD (which may be on SDV). If no one else on my system is watching it, will I have to wait 5, 10, 30 seconds from the time I hit enter before I'm seeing the Miller Lite Arm Wrestling Championship of Ludwick, Montana?

I remember back when I had a digital cable box and sometimes it took a while for an OnDemand program to start. Would SDV be the same?

I'm thinking that if I have to wait more than 1/2 a second, it's going to bug the hell out of me. But that's me.

ft

Regarding SDV ...

How quickly does the system react to a request for a certain channel.

Lets say that I want to watch ESPN2-HD (which may be on SDV). If no one else on my system is watching it, will I have to wait 5, 10, 30 seconds from the time I hit enter before I'm seeing the Miller Lite Arm Wrestling Championship of Ludwick, Montana?

I remember back when I had a digital cable box and sometimes it took a while for an OnDemand program to start. Would SDV be the same?

I'm thinking that if I have to wait more than 1/2 a second, it's going to bug the hell out of me. But that's me.

ftI've asked that question also w/no good answer. Presumably the cable companies realize that quite often people channel surf and unless they come up with some alternative way to delivering a signal on-Demand "joe six-pack" (a.k.a. me) will not be happy with SDV. The solution: FiOS TV. ;)

If ESPN2HD is placed on sdv here, I fully plan on leaving my one STB on and tuned to it 24/7. If everyone here does that, I'm sure TWC will relent and make it available via cablecard (and take it off SDV).

I finally stepped up to a Tivo Series 3 and having major issues with Time Warner and Scientific Atlanta CableCARDs.

The first card I put in worked great right off the bat, if you can believe it. Called in the card and host ID, authed, off the the races. However the second card has never worked properly. I have gone through 10 (yes ten) different cards, with build dates varying by over a year, and all end up with the following when fully authorized ("CP Auth Received"):

Scientific Atlanta Cablecard PKM600

SA CableCARD CP Screen
Auth Status CP Auth Received
Prog Number 3
CCI Byte 0x00
ECM count 0
EMM count 0
Decryption Status OK
PowerKey Status Ready
EID 0xffffffff
MKS period 100 seconds
KSE count 0

Notice the EID number above. That is -1, which is obviously bad. The EMMs and ECMs never increase, thus no decryption ever. If I move the one working card around to either slot, it will work fine, so not a problem with the Tivo. Any ideas as to what Time Warner is screwing up on the head end? I've tried looking around for what EID means in SA-speak and have come up with nothing.

energizerfellow, I would request that TW resend the staging packets for the SA CableCARD. This should then allow you to build your ecm and emm count.

So what happens to my CableCARD when Time Warner goes to SDV?

It still does what it does, but if nothing changes, some channels will simply be inaccessible.

I should have read this thread before I got so excited about buying my LG 42LB1DR cablecard ready 42" LCD set. I like the idea of not having a STB in the way and paying less to Cablevision. However, I occasionally loose all the channels. Recently, Cablevision tech support came out and said the signal level was too low. He was kind enough to run a new RG-6 cable from the LG TV to the where cable enters the house and splits to the other analog sets in the house. About a week later, we lost all our channels again. When this happens, the DTV meter built into the TV shows a bad or no signal level. I try a couple of power cycle (pulling out the power cord and cablecard) and sometimes it comes back. The question is - Cablecard, TV firmware, or a random DTV signal level problem?

The question is - Cablecard, TV firmware, or a random DTV signal level problem?

check signal levels: you may need an amplifier before the splitter: something the cableco should provide

be aware that too high a signal level (as when you add an amp) can also cause trouble

I would make the cableco come back and fix it

I find this interesting:

Beginning July 1, 2007; Cable TV companies are required to provide support for devices equipped with two-way capable CableCARD slot(s). Support for this new generation of equipment means those devices will be able to connect to the Cable MSOs network and be authorized to use any two-way services (e.g. program guide, PPV, on-Demand, etc.) that a customer is subscribed to. With Cable TV companies migrating their channels over to SDV, two-way CableCARDs are a very important development.

Cable companies will still be able to lease their security integrated STBs & currently there is no two-way w/CableCARD capable A/V device. However, this should change reasonable soon.

Do be aware that that statement is actually factually inaccurate. Cable service providers are already required to provide support for devices equipped with one-way capable CableCard slot(s) and no current regulation, going into effect on July 1, 2007, or later, for that matter, will require support for devices equipped with two-way capable Cable Card slot(s).

Therefore, there is no currently-delineated regulatory relief forthcoming with regard to SDV.

"While cable companies like the idea of the CableCARD, they’ve discovered that it’s expensive to implement, and they’re the ones picking up the tab. To avoid the expense, operators have decided they’d like to skip right over CableCARD and go to a Downloadable Conditional Access System (DCAS). Many agree that DCAS would be wonderful and presumably cheaper, but, despite the fact that the technology has been demonstrated, it’s not yet ready for primetime. Cable operators have petitioned and won deadline extensions from the FCC, but now they’re running out of delay time. Unless a new ruling is passed down from the FCC, cable operators will have to stop shipping any set-tops that don’t support CableCARD by July 1st. The clock is ticking (http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2007-01/2007-in-preview-the-cablecard-cometh/)."

"But the FCC reiterated its commitment to the July 1 deadline and pointed out that cable companies don't actually need to use a CableCARD at all. CableCARD is just one way of separating the security and navigation functions, but or promising technology called DCAS is on the horizon. DCAS (downloadable content access system) schemes use a security program that each cable operator can download into the set-top box; no physical CableCARD-style device is needed." http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070111-8599.html

Right, the most significant point regarding the July 1st milestone is we continue to inch forward to an Open Cable environment. I never said, or implied, we were there yet.

Right, the most significant point regarding the July 1st milestone is we continue to inch forward to an Open Cable environment. I never said, or implied, we were there yet.But you did say:Beginning July 1, 2007; Cable TV companies are required to provide support for devices equipped with two-way capable CableCARD slot(s).And bicker1 replied:Do be aware that that statement is actually factually inaccurate. Cable service providers are already required to provide support for devices equipped with one-way capable CableCard slot(s) and no current regulation, going into effect on July 1, 2007, or later, for that matter, will require support for devices equipped with two-way capable Cable Card slot(s).

Therefore, there is no currently-delineated regulatory relief forthcoming with regard to SDV.

And that's the TRUTH!

so: to the experts

do you think the new 1 July requirements will improve the cablecard situation ?


seems to me it has to help force them to resolve CC issues because so many more boxes with Cablecards will be added to the system

I do not believe that the July 1 requirements will improve the CableCard situation at all. However, what it does do is prove that the FCC will demand action (even if unreasonable) to achieve the broader goals of Customer Owned Navigation devices. The cable industry needs to know, and understand that the FCC means business.

BUT, Cable is working hard towards the FCC's broader goals. First, there is a lot of progress being made towards OCAP (Open Cable Application Platform) with some demonstrations/test marketing by TW & Samsung. Further down the road (2008), DCAS will likely emerge in the OCAP platform. Once that happens, CableCards will only be needed to support legacy equipment.

By 2010 CableCards will be history (and perhaps traditional cable will be headed that way too).

I agree. By 2010 or even earlier, cablecards will be history as OCAP and OCAP with DCAS are favored by manufacturing to keep costs down.
July 1'st just means that it will cost more for a STB than it used to due to additional hardware. The exact same things that worked before will continue to work and those that didn't will still not work.
The BIGGEST problem I've seen with cablecards is that the consumer, unsatisfied with their marginal cable signal (90% within the home wiring) buys a cablecard device and has trouble with it. Mainly the problem is that the tuner in the host device can't pass along the authorization data uncorrupted and since the host device is one way, the cable company can't get a signal back saying if the data was recieved correctly or not.

vegggas

I do not believe that the July 1 requirements will improve the CableCard situation at all.Well, they will certainly become more ubiquitous, forcing more (smaller) MSOs to support them and generally flushing out bugs in the system. Hard to understand how these things won't improve the current situation.
Cable is working hard towards the FCC's broader goals.Have to take exception with that. Cable is working hard towards Cable's goals. OCAP is a move to shift hardware costs to end users, but still keep full control of the walled garden of content and services. It is expensive for manufacturers to support (high HW costs due to OCAP horsepower requirements) and manufactures must give up control of the UI for their own devices. Not a very compelling business proposition for CE manufactures. What good does it do if you throw a party and no one shows up?

Yes there are some CE devices where OCAP does fit: big-ticket items that can absorb the cost, and for which the manufacturer has no desire to create their own branded UI or bear the cost of servicing it with guide data, etc. For these devices, "embedding" the current set top box and its UI adds value, and those are the only manufacturers showing up at the OCAP party today.

But there are many other CE devices (TiVo) that are marginalized or shut out of the party by OCAP. And the end user does not benefit from true competition in the UI and services area, which is the whole goal and spirit of Congress's legislation (and the FCC's mandate). As consumers, I think we should demand more competition and not cave in to Cable's self-serving, monopolistic proposal.

Now, DCAS is another matter, and in-and-of-itself, is a great idea to reduce costs (replace CableCARD with SW solution). But Cablelabs, in their infinite capacity for self-interest, are attempting to use licensing terms to tie DCAS to OCAP. This is absurd. DCAS should be available to all devices including unidirectional ones (UDCRs). Yet another example of Cable corrupting a good idea to serve their monopolistic business interests.

Cable and OCAP are not the good guys here.

do you think the new 1 July requirements will improve the cablecard situation ? While there will be some improvements that will stem from it, overall, the effect will be negative, as is always the case when government interferes with non-essential services, such as luxury television services. It is one thing for the government to legislate the provision of lifeline cable, but anything beyond the local broadcast channels is another story.

The BIGGEST problem I've seen with cablecards is that the consumer, unsatisfied with their marginal cable signal (90% within the home wiring) buys a cablecard device and has trouble with it. Mainly the problem is that the tuner in the host device can't pass along the authorization data uncorrupted and since the host device is one way, the cable company can't get a signal back saying if the data was recieved correctly or not.

vegggas

When my cablecard goes out, the DTV signal level as reported by the HD LCD TV is bad or nil. Without any adjustments to any cable or connectors between the street and the TV, I reboot the TV and the DTV signal level meter is pegged full and all the channels are back. From the street connection, I have 20' of buried cable, the exterior ground lightning protection connector, a 10' run to the first spliitter, and then a 50' run of new RG6 to the TV. As an electrical engineer, I find the lack of reliability and debug process very fustrating. We have already had four visits from Cablevision since Dec. '06.

Even though the device is one-way, doesn't the information reported by the TV menu Cable option provide the cablecard information needed by the cable company w/o sending a tech out?

Even though the device is one-way, doesn't the information reported by the TV menu Cable option provide the cablecard information needed by the cable company w/o sending a tech out?Most likely your cable TV provider has many diagnostic tools associated with CableCARD management. How many people they employ who are qualified to debug these kind of problems is debatable and for the $1.75 per month rental fee don't expect a lot of support. The bottom line is: the Cable MSOs want us to rent their 3-year-old SA8300HD DVR for $20 per month + any additional services they can successfully hawk.

Who knows what is really going on at the head-end? Try having your cable TV company run a new RG-6 coax cable from the street to your house, then minimize the number of times you split the signal before it reaches your TV.

Even though the device is one-way, doesn't the information reported by the TV menu Cable option provide the cablecard information needed by the cable company w/o sending a tech out?

I don't think so

but a call to the cableco asking them to send a hit to the card might resolve the problem

When my cablecard goes out, the DTV signal level as reported by the HD LCD TV is bad or nil. Without any adjustments to any cable or connectors between the street and the TV, I reboot the TV and the DTV signal level meter is pegged full and all the channels are back. From the street connection, I have 20' of buried cable, the exterior ground lightning protection connector, a 10' run to the first spliitter, and then a 50' run of new RG6 to the TV. As an electrical engineer, I find the lack of reliability and debug process very fustrating. We have already had four visits from Cablevision since Dec. '06.



I had a similar problem and discovered the problem was too strong a signal:

cableco was doing repairs after street paving in the area and the signal measured 15 db higher for a few weeks: adding an attenuator/removing a cableco amp is worth a try

When my cablecard goes out, the DTV signal level as reported by the HD LCD TV is bad or nil. Without any adjustments to any cable or connectors between the street and the TV, I reboot the TV and the DTV signal level meter is pegged full and all the channels are back. From the street connection, I have 20' of buried cable, the exterior ground lightning protection connector, a 10' run to the first spliitter, and then a 50' run of new RG6 to the TV. As an electrical engineer, I find the lack of reliability and debug process very fustrating. We have already had four visits from Cablevision since Dec. '06.

Even though the device is one-way, doesn't the information reported by the TV menu Cable option provide the cablecard information needed by the cable company w/o sending a tech out? First statement in bold.
If the tuner is reporting no signal, then there is nothing to send to the cablecard. It is sitting and waiting for a stream of data to decrypt.
The cable card is only a conditional access decryptor and gets that information from the host tuner from the embedded digital stream. You rebooting the display and fixing the problem tells me that your tuner is locking up and no longer passing any data. This has nothing to do with cablecard. It sounds like the tuner in the display is having issues, not the cable company or cable card.
Second statement in bold. Your display is one way without any return signal generator, the card is and has always been 2-way capable. The card can only get CA data from the digital stream tuned and streamed from the tuner. Since there is no two way communication, there is no way to monitor any data from the card or host device diagnostics, so a person has to go and physically do any checking needed.

vegggas

Originally Posted by TruthSquad
Cable is working hard towards the FCC's broader goals.
Have to take exception with that. Cable is working hard towards Cable's goals. OCAP is a move to shift hardware costs to end users, but still keep full control of the walled garden of content and services. It is expensive for manufacturers to support (high HW costs due to OCAP horsepower requirements) and manufactures must give up control of the UI for their own devices. Not a very compelling business proposition for CE manufactures. What good does it do if you throw a party and no one shows up?I don't argue with your view of cable's motivation, but I was only saying that they are (now) working towards the customer owned equipment goals legislated in 1996 by Congress and expressed (only) by goals by the FCC.

I consider 7/1/07 a "shot across the bow". The pain will ultimately get a lot worse if they don't do it. And it appears that cable is (finally) responding.

My own guess is that after 7/1/07 cable companies will continue to make using cable card so painful that it never really catches on before being replaced by something else.

- Tom

I have a problem. We are currently renovating our restaurant/bar. The plan was to put in 8 plasmas with cablecards (Time Warner). I have already run cable to each location. HDMI would be difficult, as there are many long cable runs, requiring expensive balanced cables, at least 3 STBs, and an expensive HDMI switcher (if I could even FIND a 3x8 switcher).
Running component wouldn't be much better.

Now I'm hearing all the horror stories about cablecards...

I will say that I know a Time Warner installer - he stopped by and offered his help, and he said they had just been through an excellent seminar on cablecards. He seemed completely confident that they would work fine.

Suggestions? (Thanks in advance)

TC

I have a problem. We are currently renovating our restaurant/bar. The plan was to put in 8 plasmas with cablecards (Time Warner). I have already run cable to each location. HDMI would be difficult, as there are many long cable runs, requiring expensive balanced cables, at least 3 STBs, and an expensive HDMI switcher (if I could even FIND a 3x8 switcher).
Running component wouldn't be much better.

Now I'm hearing all the horror stories about cablecards...

I will say that I know a Time Warner installer - he stopped by and offered his help, and he said they had just been through an excellent seminar on cablecards. He seemed completely confident that they would work fine.

Suggestions? (Thanks in advance)

TCIf the cable guy says no sweat and you can get the channels that you want with CC, then go for it! It doesn't sound like you have much to loose at this point.

I'm hearing all the horror stories about cablecards...

a Time Warner installer... seemed completely confident that they would work fine.

Suggestions?Cable TV companies will deny this, but it's highly likely they will move many of their most popular channels to SDV (e.g. ESPN) making your investment in FP TVs equipped with one-way CableCARD slots moot.

Bandwidth Management Optimization and Expansion Solutions (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/products/customers/images_bbaccess/MAY_06_G1618A_BandwidthManagement-Tylka.pdf)

As long as there is a layer of regulation (whether it be local franchising authorities or state-level agencies), I think most of the most popular channels are safe from SDV for a while. Figure there are always a set of 30-40 channels which rightfully lag behind the tightest restrictions. First, that's all the channels there were. Next, these were the channels that were "safe" from digital. Now, they'll be "safe" from SDV.

Cable TV companies will deny this, but it's highly likely they will move many of their most popular channels to SDV (e.g. ESPN) making your investment in FP TVs equipped with one-way CableCARD slots moot.
While the link that you provided was quite interesting, there was absolutely nothing there (or anywhere else, I believe) to support your contention. Do you have anything more concrete to back up your statement (or is it just what you want everyone to believe?)

Already happening in my TWcable town, and all newly added channels are switched. Made my cablecard very limited in getting HD channels. I ditched their box too, and just do analog cable and OTA.

While the link that you provided was quite interesting, there was absolutely nothing there (or anywhere else, I believe) to support your contention. Do you have anything more concrete to back up your statement (or is it just what you want everyone to believe?)

I don't see it happening that soon but either a switch to SDV or to AVC encoding will render all current user owned recievers obsolete. And yet both will likely happen eventually.

- Tom

I don't see it happening that soon but either a switch to SDV or to AVC encoding will render all current user owned recievers obsolete. And yet both will likely happen eventually.

- TomSDV will be happening a lot sooner than AVC (or an even more efficient compression technology). The "key" on SDV will be what channels are sufficiently popular (e.g. ESPN HD) to justify "full time" status and what ones are not. TW's approach, so far, seems limited to "new HD channels", rather than migrating existing HD channels to SDV.

Already happening in my TWcable town, and all newly added channels are switched. That doesn't substantiate an objection to the comment you replied to. The assertion that optivity made was that the "most popular" channels will be moved to SDV. He didn't claim that "newly added" channels will be moved to SDV. The former is very unlikely, inflammatory, and unsubstantiated, which was TruthSquad's point, I believe. The latter is plausible and pretty logical, and therefore no one is expecting it to be substantiated.

SDV will be happening a lot sooner than AVC (or an even more efficient compression technology). The "key" on SDV will be what channels are sufficiently popular (e.g. ESPN HD) to justify "full time" status and what ones are not. TW's approach, so far, seems limited to "new HD channels", rather than migrating existing HD channels to SDV.

Okay, that would work. I actually would expect cablecard channels to be caught in a squeeze where the digital version of basic lifeline channels remains in unencrypted 256 QAM MPEG-2 (no encryption or cable card needed) and new VOD/PPV/? channels are added SDV where cable card doesn't work. The area in between may shrink over time.

- Tom

I don't see it happening that soon but either a switch to SDV or to AVC encoding will render all current user owned recievers obsolete. And yet both will likely happen eventually.

- Tom
I believe the current TiVo Series 3 is AVC and MPEG4 capable, of course, it's not SDV capable though, at least not at this time.

While the link that you provided was quite interesting, there was absolutely nothing there (or anywhere else, I believe) to support your contention. Do you have anything more concrete to back up your statement (or is it just what you want everyone to believe?)This is pure speculation on my part but "riddle me this," in an effort to free up bandwidth to accommodate additional HD programming why bother to implement SDV unless the Cable MSOs plan to move channels over to SDV?

This is pure speculation on my part but "riddle me this," in an effort to free up bandwidth to accommodate additional HD programming why bother to implement SDV unless the Cable MSOs plan to move channels over to SDV?Ah! So typical! :rolleyes:

Ah! So typical! :rolleyes:Thanks for your contribution :p and obfuscation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obfuscation) of what is obvious. ;)

Thanks for your contribution :p and obfuscation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obfuscation) of what is obvious. ;)Excuse me, but what is obvious? I was looking for some basis for your claims that "highly likely they will move many of their most popular channels to SDV (e.g. ESPN)".

Excuse me, but what is obvious? I was looking for some basis for your claims that "highly likely they will move many of their most popular channels to SDV (e.g. ESPN)".Let's call it an educated guess. Does common sense indicate the Cable MSOs are spending BIG bucks on SDV head end equipment not to use it? Aren't cable operators striving to increase bandwidth efficiency and allow carriage of more digital services in order to remain competitive with FiOS/Satellite providers? Naivety aside, time will tell.

Timely article:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2151734,00.asp

I love how the popular press continually fails to do its research before publishing generalizations. Here in the first sentence of the article, they already have it wrong: "Beginning July 1, if a consumer wants a new cable set-top box, a cable company will have to supply him one with a slot for a special PC Card, known as a CableCard." Anyone who did any reasonable amount of research would know that cable companies can supply customers with old cable set-top boxes, as long as they've been used by another customer previously. What's really bad about this, given the fact it was in PC Magazine, is that it will cause a whole bunch of J6Ps to foster unfounded expectations that they can go into the cable company office on July 1 and insist on a new technology STB. Really quite irresponsible reporting IMHO.

Forgivable only because it wasn't the focus of the article, and because after the first couple of paragraphs, the article started looking like it was written by someone who knew what he/she was talking about.

The second sentence was, "And very few people seem happy about it." This really raises the most important issue that many folks, in this thread especially, seem to want to sweep under the rug. The dirty-little-secret is the whole CableCard fiasco was a disaster every step of the way. One side insisted on their pound of flesh, and in fairness the regulations were written to provide the other side the right to make that pound of flesh pretty-much of-no-substantial-value in the general case. That's what happens when the regulatory process is abused to try to provide an advantage for consumers over business. Our laws should be about fairness, not getting-one-over on the other side.

Can someone please decrypt this statement? "One ray of hope, according to PC Magazine analysts who are familiar with CableCards, is that the card mechanism might ... [provide] a 'clean', direct signal connection between the cable outlet and the television." I love the fact that these analysts (who allegedly are "familiar" with CableCards) remain safely anonymous. Are they really trying to say that there is a significant improvement to be derived from eliminating the HDMI connection? And given that so many people, now, want DVRs, there really is no advantage to be had, whatsoever. Sheesh.

"Cable executives are using examples like Dixon's to say that if customers are being burned by their voluntary adoption of CableCards, then a federal order to include the technology may result in a consumer backlash." Hey bub: That's old news. Why is this being published now? It's almost past history by now.

This statement is golden: "This is not a great customer product. We said that. We said, are you sure you want to do this? They said, well, this is a good template measure. So we did it. It was a compromise. [And] it's not that good." Big surprise. Again, that's what you get when regulatory processes are abused to disrupt a market.

Another critical point: "The hardware makers are the ones bearing the burden of the additional cost, both for the cards themselves as well as the slots necessary to connect to them." So the end result of all this CableCard stuff: Enthusiasts benefit. The vast majority of customers don't gain anything at all. And the hardware manufacturers get hurt. How is that justice?

I think the Cablecard was a good idea but not much has changed in over 2 years:

cablecos simply don't want this government mandated solution

when I first started this thread, the title was slightly different: it read something like "CableCards: thinking of giving up"

So here I am again thinking of giving up on Cablecards (except the 2 in my Tivo S3): I had to get the Comcast 3250 box back after YES stopped working on the cards: I will say the 3250 is not a bad box

These are really interesting times: it seems there are technology battles going on everywhere as HD slowly becomes mainstream

I think the Cablecard was a good idea but not much has changed in over 2 years:

cablecos simply don't want this government mandated solution

when I first started this thread, the title was slightly different: it read something like "CableCards: thinking of giving up"

So here I am again thinking of giving up on Cablecards (except the 2 in my Tivo S3): I had to get the Comcast 3250 box back after YES stopped working on the cards: I will say the 3250 is not a bad box

These are really interesting times: it seems there are technology battles going on everywhere as HD slowly becomes mainstream

If your cable company eliminated a channel from your service w/ cablcard, why don't you file a complaint with the FCC? First, FCC rules say that the cable company must provide notice of such a move. Second, if this was a result of sdv, many here and other places have questioned whether moving channels on to sdv (and hence requiring people to get a box) complies with the spirit of the integration ban. The FCC could act on your complaint and adopt an additional rule which would prevent the cable companies from utilizing sdv.

If your cable company eliminated a channel from your service w/ cablcard, why don't you file a complaint with the FCC? First, FCC rules say that the cable company must provide notice of such a move. Second, if this was a result of sdv, many here and other places have questioned whether moving channels on to sdv (and hence requiring people to get a box) complies with the spirit of the integration ban. The FCC could act on your complaint and adopt an additional rule which would prevent the cable companies from utilizing sdv.

they did not eliminate the channel: audio works/no video on Sharp LCD's: was told I need a firmware update from Sharp: no audio or video on Tivo

several other folks have same complaint in my area

Please don't suggest I go to the FCC: complaining to Comcast is bad enough :o

The FCC could act on your complaint But probably won't. I suspect that's why markrubin might be reticent about putting a lot of time and effort into pursuing the issue down the avenue you've suggested.

they did not eliminate the channel: audio works/no video on Sharp LCD's: was told I need a firmware update from Sharp: no audio or video on Tivo
:o

A prior poster has told me that the CC is just a decrypter of the digital stream provided by the TV tuner. If so, what unique process is your Cable company doing to YES such that the TV needs a firmware update?

SDV is another fascinating topic - Are the number of households get low enough on the last mile coax to eliminate the possibility that all channels are desired by consumers on a last mile segment? This would seem to prevent the cable co from switching out an unused channel as there are none.

I hate to say it but I have a CableCard in my Panasonic Plasma. After seeing that channels 151 to 170 drop out from my Comcast service despite a replaced card and two trips out from COmcast. I also received a firmware upgrade from Panasonic but it did not help. I just went to a DVR from Comcast. I gave up.

A prior poster has told me that the CC is just a decrypter of the digital stream provided by the TV tuner. If so, what unique process is your Cable company doing to YES such that the TV needs a firmware update?




you would have to ask Comcast that question: following is an email I got from Comcast Head end engineer in response to my complaint in bold:

When you are in front of your TiVo S3, put on channel 212 and after waiting 5-10 seconds, press the PAUSE button, and then press the PLAY button on your TiVo remote. Let me know what happens when you try that.

I was informed that South Jersey is having a similar issue with GOL TV and TiVo advised a customer to try that and the customer said that GOL TV is working. I was informed that TiVo sent the South Jersey customer a beta version of firmware for the TiVo to test that I believe changes how the TiVo S3 encodes the video and audio.


Per the email I sent last week regarding my call to Sharp, they opened case # *****. The technician who I spoke to on the phone at Sharp, neither Comcast nor myself suggested that you probably need a firmware upgrade on your Sharp TV’s. He also said that it would be better to have who ever calls back into Sharp at 1-800-237-4277 or 1-877-742-7704 asks for the dispatch department with the serial numbers of each set and date of purchase and Sharp will walk the person in front of the TV’s through the process of checking to see what version of firmware is on the TV’s currently.


All the other brands of cable card equipment that are all throughout our systems (Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, Philips, Toshiba, etc.) are not reporting any issues. I’ve only heard of issues with the TiVo S3’s and the Sharp Aquos TV’s.

Let me know if I can be of further assistance.


with a reply like this, I get the distinct impression Comcast has no clue what they are doing: both the Tivo and 4 Sharp LCD's worked on YES ch 212 for months and all stopped working at the same time: there is a thread running on the HD Tivo forum where other folks in my area (Monmouth County, NJ) have also lost YES ch 212: yet Comcast tells me is is not at fault

btw: during earlier Comcast cablecard problems a couple of years ago, Sharp came out and did a firmware update of the displays: it made no difference: it turned out to be a Comcast head end issue: these are the same 4 displays I have now

this is not rocket science: even Comcast should be able to resolve this

this is not rocket science: even Comcast should be able to resolve thisYou're joking, right? I NEVER believe that they can even solve basic signal-level problems in the lines outside my house. A CableCard channel issue IS like rocket science to them.

btw: during earlier Comcast cablecard problems a couple of years ago, Sharp came out and did a firmware update of the displays: it made no difference: it turned out to be a Comcast head end issue: these are the same 4 displays I have now

this is not rocket science: even Comcast should be able to resolve this

I only wish that were true. I can't get CableCard working on my XBR1 TV to this day.

Brandon

I have 2 Sharp TV's with cablecards/TV Guide and for the most part for a couple a hits from time to time have been great. I know my Comcast have been doing alot of changes last week and I always know when there messing around because I will lose a channel or two. Last Monday I lost my HBO's both digital and HD. And I get the Dialoque box that says to start service call your cable operator.

Problem here from experience is the CS rep's just read from a list of things to try. If a hit doesn't do it they want you to pull the cablecard and reset everything. The only thing that happens here is I lose my guide for the week. And then a tech comes out several days later and can reset everything over his cell phone. I always ask why couldn't the rep do this? And his reply is they have better acsess than I do and I don't know why.

6 days and counting and no HBO and I replyed to there letter about updating info so I wouldn't be interrupted with these changes taking place. I'm pissed.

What brand of CableCARD is being used? If it is a Moto CC tune to your HBO channel or channels that are missing and then go to the conditional access menu and see what the authorization states. Missing program rekey, not subscribed, unkown. It seems like a lot of installers do not check this menu and most of the time a Cold initialization will solve this problem. If it is a SA CC tune to the missing channel then go into the CableCARD menu check the 3rd option I forgot what its called but its under SA CableCARD Diag screen here it should tell the authorization. Most times what needs to be done here is to have the cable company unpair and pair the card and if that does not work you need someone from the Head End to resend the staging packets.

What brand of CableCARD is being used? If it is a Moto CC tune to your HBO channel or channels that are missing and then go to the conditional access menu and see what the authorization states. Missing program rekey, not subscribed, unkown. It seems like a lot of installers do not check this menu and most of the time a Cold initialization will solve this problem. If it is a SA CC tune to the missing channel then go into the CableCARD menu check the 3rd option I forgot what its called but its under SA CableCARD Diag screen here it should tell the authorization. Most times what needs to be done here is to have the cable company unpair and pair the card and if that does not work you need someone from the Head End to resend the staging packets.
Looks like you just logged off. Thanks for the reply. Its a MOTO and its states its disabled. Cold initialization is this pulling the card? Host validation says "unknown". I'll call Comcast and see if I can find someone who might know how to do this. Thanks.

Update: Cold Initialization didn't work so wait for the tech. Thanks chicolow for your help.

When the cold initialization is sent you should see an error code 161-04 appear and then your screen should go to channel 2 most of the times. I work with these CableCARDs all the time, and most often a regular initialization signal is send not a "Cold init" which is a different kind of signal sent to a Moto CableCARD I was given that bit of information directly from a Motorola engineer that I have worked with. If you still do not get a 161-04 error make sure the CC serial #, data #, host ID # and Card TM # are all entered correctly at the head end. The only thing pulling the CC out does is reset the CARD it will not help with authorization.

When the cold initialization is sent you should see an error code 161-04 appear and then your screen should go to channel 2 most of the times. I work with these CableCARDs all the time, and most often a regular initialization signal is send not a "Cold init" which is a different kind of signal sent to a Moto CableCARD I was given that bit of information directly from a Motorola engineer that I have worked with. If you still do not get a 161-04 error make sure the CC serial #, data #, host ID # and Card TM # are all entered correctly at the head end. The only thing pulling the CC out does is reset the CARD it will not help with authorization.
Thanks chicalow,
Last month they had me call and give them this information of my cablecard and the letter said if I didn't I would experience an interruption of service. Well they got the information and I still got interrupted. Plus nobody is at that call center (Sunday) to see if they got it all correct. And I've already called and they said the info was correct twice last week. So tomorrow the tech will be here so let him take care of it. Thanks again.

When the cold initialization is sent you should see an error code 161-04 appear and then your screen should go to channel 2 most of the times ... If you still do not get a 161-04 error make sure the CC serial #, data #, host ID # and Card TM # are all entered correctly at the head end. The only thing pulling the CC out does is reset the CARD it will not help with authorization.

When the Comcast tech tried to install my CC, it kept getting this 161-04 error and that was as far as we could get. We never got past it.

Brandon

If I remember, 161-04 is "good". 161-01 or 161-03 are "bad".

161-01 and 161-03 are generally mean bad CableCARDs. For bplewis24 check the conditional access menu for authorization. Post 873 if they are not sending a cold initilazation to the CableCARD it will not work. Let me know what the authorization says in the Conditional access menu in the CableCARD menu

For those that read multiple threads in the board, I apologize in advance for cross-posting this. I felt, however, that people subscribed to this thread might be interested.

For those that are intersted in the continued functionality of cablecards (and know of the imending doom of having eveything on SDV (and not on cablecard)....

The CEA has a proposal before the FCC that would limit the use of SDV until two-way consumer cablecard devices have hit the market.


I quote at length:


"The issue of “switched digital” service deserves particular attention. First, for the sake of simplicity only, the Proposal classifies switched digital content as “interactive,” even though consumers observe no interaction with the cable network when accessing it. Indeed, to clarify, switched digital content might properly be classified as “bi-directional,” but it is plainly not interactive.
Further, as the record shows, cable operators are migrating channels of video programming to a switched digital delivery scheme. See Letter from Steven N. Teplitz, Time Warner Cable, Inc., to Marlene H. Dortch, Secretary, Federal Communications Commission, (May 11, 2006). If cable had not implemented switched digital in a manner that disenfranchised consumers from the programming they had reasonably expected to receive with their UDCPs, we would, of course, support this and all such efforts by cable to increase the efficiency of their networks.

Present unidirectional digital cable ready (“UDCR”) devices, however, cannot receive services with an interactive component, like switched digital, and consumers cannot know upon purchase of a UDCR that some linear programming may become unavailable in the future. If cable operators continue to migrate channels to switched digital, UDCR customers will continue to lose programming or be forced to switch to a leased set-top box, which ultimately will discourage consumers from purchasing devices at retail, as they can no longer expect to receive all the programming that they receive on the day they bring the device home. Switched digital thus directly undermines CE efforts and Commission action. We recognize that it is not possible to fix UDCRs that are already in consumer homes and that it may not be an effective allocation of cable or CE resources to spend significant time addressing the UDCR/switched digital issue. Instead, the Commission should limit MSOs’ ability to migrate programming to switched digital until CE manufacturers have the capability to build and sell devices that can handle switched digital. This is the only fair result for consumers, and will encourage cable to move quickly on two-way."

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publ...CC-07-120A3.pdf

I suggest people write in to the FCC to support the CEA's proposal limiting the adoption of SDV.

And I'll post the same comment here that I did elsewhere:

dc10forlife,

It is interesting to note that the CEA proposal was written 11/6/06 and for almost 9 months the FCC has taken no action to restrict SDV. On 6/29/07 the FCC released their THIRD FURTHER NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULEMAKING (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-120A1.pdf) looking for comment on this matter. Those comments are due about 8/15. If the FCC goes through their normal process (note that this is the 3rd Notice) they will likely not issue regulations in the matter till mid to late 2008.

In the meantime, the FCC has not done anything to restrict the expansion of interactive services (VOD, SDV, etc.). Actually, this may well encourage TW to accelerate the deployment of SDV.

And I'll post the same comment here that I did elsewhere:

dc10forlife,

It is interesting to note that the CEA proposal was written 11/6/06 and for almost 9 months the FCC has taken no action to restrict SDV. On 6/29/07 the FCC released their THIRD FURTHER NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULEMAKING (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-120A1.pdf) looking for comment on this matter. Those comments are due about 8/15. If the FCC goes through their normal process (note that this is the 3rd Notice) they will likely not issue regulations in the matter till mid to late 2008.

In the meantime, the FCC has not done anything to restrict the expansion of interactive services (VOD, SDV, etc.). Actually, this may well encourage TW to accelerate the deployment of SDV.

Thanks for providing some additional detail. I'd like to see the FCC take action before the end of 2007. If the FCC views it as a big enough problem, it could keep the process moving (or perhaps, even adopt the rule on an emergency basis). Of course, even if a rule is developed, the cable companies could take it to court just like they tried (in futility) to stop the integration ban in court.

So its imporant that those who want to stop SDV write in before the deadline and support the CEA's proposed moratorium on the adoption.

One of the reasons cable companies have probably resisted cable card is a fear it will restrict their ability to innovate. It is exactly the case above where some may ask cable companies to continue using an older and less efficient technology simply because the new one is not compatible with whatever CE companies have been selling consumers.

- Tom

Trbarry,
Do you see any reason the cable companies show not be using the cable cards? Is there a better solution?

I don't understand why the cable companies feel restricted with the cable cards in being un'able to innovate?

If us consumers are spending as much of 4,000 bucks for a tv with cable card, and they are suppose to work,
then they or someone should be held accountable should'nt they?

I'd like to see the FCC take action before the end of 2007. If the FCC views it as a big enough problem, it could keep the process moving (or perhaps, even adopt the rule on an emergency basis).I believe Dave's point was that the FCC hasn't taken quick action, and therefore folks shouldn't expect them to suddenly change course, and take quick action now, just because someone wrote an impassioned plea. Most of the time, public releases like that are just political plays, to cover one's tail with one's constituency. ("We know that this won't do any good, but it will make us look good.")

Do you see any reason the cable companies show not be using the cable cards?It reduces demand on their own leased offerings, therefore putting greater financial pressure on their operations overall.

Is there a better solution?For the cable companies, a closed network would be better than a federally-mandated open network.

If us consumers are spending as much of 4,000 bucks for a tv with cable card, and they are suppose to work, then they or someone should be held accountable should'nt they?Well, keep in mind that the cable company gets absolutely none of that $4,000.

If us consumers are spending as much of 4,000 bucks for a tv with cable card, and they are suppose to work,
then they or someone should be held accountable should'nt they?I think that one issue is who says that "the CableCard will work" and what "work" really means.

I'm sure that this has been pointed out before, but the reason that CableCards are one way (per the CableLabs CableCard Primer (http://www.opencable.com/primer/cablecard_primer.html) ): The media has frequently reported that first-generation CableCARD 1.0 modules are one-way devices1. This is simply not true. CableLabs had always intended to develop the CableCARD module and host receiver standards with two-way capability. However the manufacturers of digital TVs requested that a host standard be developed that only had one-way capability. This one-way cable-ready receiver was defined by the FCC's Plug & Play order and by the Joint Test Suite (JTS). It is the definition of this one-way receiver that lacks the ability for two-way functionality, not the CableCARD module. While the FCC defined the elements of the one-way cable-ready receiver, CableLabs continued to define specifications for two-way receivers.

I believe Dave's point was that the FCC hasn't taken quick action, and therefore folks shouldn't expect them to suddenly change course, and take quick action now, just because someone wrote an impassioned plea. Most of the time, public releases like that are just political plays, to cover one's tail with one's constituency. ("We know that this won't do any good, but it will make us look good.")Yes, that was my point. However, I believe that the FCC is serious (though somewhat mislead) in this effort - but just do't expect quick action.

I believe that, in most cases, TW has not talked about MOVING live channels to SDV, but rather just using SDV for the addition of new HD channels. It would seem reasonable to prohibit moving currently available channels to SDV on an emergency basis, but not prohibiting new channels being on SDV.

Yes, that was my point. However, I believe that the FCC is serious (though somewhat mislead) in this effort - but just do't expect quick action.

I believe that, in most cases, TW has not talked about MOVING live channels to SDV, but rather just using SDV for the addition of new HD channels. It would seem reasonable to prohibit moving currently available channels to SDV on an emergency basis, but not prohibiting new channels being on SDV.

I'd guess that for MPEG-4, SDV, non-ATSC resolutions, or 2 way cable cards they may have to mostly restrict it to new channels for the legacy issues.

- Tom

edit: all of these could be reasons cable companies have resisted wide roll out of one way cable cards.

Yes, that was my point. However, I believe that the FCC is serious (though somewhat mislead) in this effort - but just do't expect quick action.

I believe that, in most cases, TW has not talked about MOVING live channels to SDV, but rather just using SDV for the addition of new HD channels. It would seem reasonable to prohibit moving currently available channels to SDV on an emergency basis, but not prohibiting new channels being on SDV.

If the whole purpose in all of this is to give consumers a choice other than renting a STB, then prohibiting the use of SDV for current and new channels until consumer devices capable of receiveing SDV is, in my opinion, the best policy.

The CEA's proposal is a good proposal for a number of reasons, including (1) it helps ensure that those who purchased "digital cable ready" devices that they will continue to receive programming until new consumer devices are available, (2) it provides an incentive for the cable companies to actually work with the industry to get the new "two-way" standard finalized, (3) it provides some level of comfort to future "two-way" "digital cable ready" consumers who might otherwise be worried about becoming disenfranchised from future programming if the cable company suddenly decides on a new standard (like SDV2-MPEG4), (4) it furthers the purpose of the original congressional intent of the integration ban by continuing to give consumers a choice other than renting a STB from the cable company

I believe Dave's point was that the FCC hasn't taken quick action, and therefore folks shouldn't expect them to suddenly change course, and take quick action now, just because someone wrote an impassioned plea. Most of the time, public releases like that are just political plays, to cover one's tail with one's constituency. ("We know that this won't do any good, but it will make us look good.")


Well, the CEAs proposal really wouldn't be a change of course. The FCC has, for the most part, denied big cable's attempt at postponing the integration ban. There are more rules coming, its just a question of whether the rules will mirror the NCTA proposal or the CEA proposal or some combination thereof.

The FCC has, for the most part, denied big cable's attempt at postponing the integration ban.NO, the FCC has TWICE delayed cable's postponing the ban. That is why I don't see the FCC acting quickly.
There are more rules coming, its just a question of whether the rules will mirror the NCTA proposal or the CEA proposal or some combination thereof.Well, whatever it is, unless the two can agree on a compromise (which is what the FCC really wants), it will drag on.....................

The FCC has, for the most part, denied big cable's attempt at postponing the integration ban.NO, the FCC has TWICE delayed cable's postponing the ban. That is why I don't see the FCC acting quickly.Didn't the integration ban take effect on July 1, 2007? It appears the FCC is making it clear to the Cable MSOs there will be no further delays regarding the analog shutoff date. The FCCs intent was to provide enough lead time for the cable companies to make a smooth transition to solely DTV transmissions and not forestall the inevitable with one excuse after another. February 2009 is looming large on the horizon & two way DCR devices are currently available (e.g. 8300HDC DVR (http://scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/7008360.pdf)).

Didn't the integration ban take effect on July 1, 2007? It appears the FCC is making it clear to the Cable MSOs there will be no further delays regarding the analog shutoff date. The FCCs intent was to provide enough lead time for the cable companies to make a smooth transition to solely DTV transmissions and not forestall the inevitable with one excuse after another. February 2009 is looming large on the horizon & two way DCR devices are currently available (e.g. 8300HDC DVR (http://scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/7008360.pdf)). Where do you get a tie in to Feb 09? Cable companies are not mandated to switch to digital, of course they would like to but there is no A to D mandate for cable. They can send analog signals accross their networks as long as they like. The integration mandate requires cable operators to offer a separate security module that could be plugged into a set-top box or television from any manufacturer and properly descramble channels.

I believe that, in most cases, TW has not talked about MOVING live channels to SDV, but rather just using SDV for the addition of new HD channels. It would seem reasonable to prohibit moving currently available channels to SDV on an emergency basis, but not prohibiting new channels being on SDV.And I think it is important to acknowledge the concern that represents to many people: USA HD and FX HD, for example, will be very very popular, but won't be introduced until either later this year or next year, and so the presumption should be that TW will at least consider providing them via SDV, and as such folks with consumer-owned CE won't be able to access them.

Personally, I think "old" versus "new" is an arbitrary and capricious way to determine what should or should not be place on SDV. Either it should be left completely up to the service provider (which is the fairest approach; their business, their rules), or it should be based on aggregate ratings for the channels, including their SD counter-parts as needed (which is a consumer-biased approach).

If the whole purpose in all of this is to give consumers a choice other than renting a STB, then prohibiting the use of SDV for current and new channels until consumer devices capable of receiveing SDV is, in my opinion, the best policy.Despite public statement to that effect, I believe the actual reason for things like CableCard was to encourage competition within the CE industry. After all, most customers won't care to buy their own STB, even if that is offered. The issue here is that multiple sources would keep the price for each option low, and keep the pressure for innovation high.

The CEA's proposal is a good proposal for a number of reasonsIn all of this, I distrust the CEA the most. If they have come up with a good idea, I believe that they only did so in error. :D

Cable companies are not mandated to switch to digital, of course they would like to but there is no A to D mandate for cable.Absolutely true, though do keep in mind that the FCC has now made it clear that they will be moving forcefully in the direction of driving MSOs to switch to all-digital. While I doubt they'll go as far as to mandate it (perhaps, ever), don't underestimate the power of incentives.

Originally Posted by Nmlobo
Cable companies are not mandated to switch to digital, of course they would like to but there is no A to D mandate for cable.
Absolutely true, though do keep in mind that the FCC has now made it clear that they will be moving forcefully in the direction of driving MSOs to switch to all-digital. While I doubt they'll go as far as to mandate it (perhaps, ever), don't underestimate the power of incentives.Well.................
The FCC is really considering Regulations (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-71A1.pdf) that would require cable to continue to carry certain "Must Carry" stations in BOTH SD analog as well as HD.

Stay tuned. :rolleyes:

Well.................
The FCC is really considering Regulations (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-71A1.pdf) that would require cable to continue to carry certain "Must Carry" stations in BOTH SD analog as well as HD.UNLESS the cable company is "all digital" ... then they only have to carry digital ...Specifically, we propose that cable operators must comply with this “viewability” provision and ensure that cable subscribers with analog television sets are able to continue to view all must-carry stations after the end of the DTV transition by either: (1) carrying the digital signal in analog format, or (2) carrying the signal only in digital format, provided that all subscribers have the necessary equipment to view the broadcast content.FCC to cable companies:
"Go all digital by Feb. 2009 and you can get a waiver from the integration ban for low-cost / limited-capability boxes (which people with analog TVs are going to need to view the digital signals) and you don't have to carry analog versions of must-carries ...

OTOH, don't go all digital by Feb. 2009 and no integration ban waiver and you're going to have to carry analog versions of must-carries."

UNLESS the cable company is "all digital" ... then they only have to carry digital ...FCC to cable companies:
"Go all digital by Feb. 2009 and you can get a waiver from the integration ban for low-cost / limited-capability boxes (which people with analog TVs are going to need to view the digital signals) and you don't have to carry analog versions of must-carries ...

OTOH, don't go all digital by Feb. 2009 and no integration ban waiver and you're going to have to carry analog versions of must-carries."And buried deep in that document is the statement:We believe that the 1992 Act is clear in its requirement that all local
commercial television stations carried in fulfillment of the must-carry
requirements must be provided to every cable subscriber and must be
viewable on all television sets that are connected to the cable system by a
cable operator for which the cable operator provides a connection. The
Act does not give the Commission authority to exempt any class of
subscribers from this requirement.
Might make an "all-digital" system difficult. I've got 8 sets connected, only one has a STB.

I've got 8 sets connected, only one has a STB.How many times are you splitting the analog signal for your 8 teeny tiny CRT TVs? :eek:

Stay tuned. :rolleyes:Martin will continue to bring it up, over and over again, hoping that the other commissioners will change their mind. He almost seems OCD that way, sometimes. <shrug> Those proposals died on the vine when he brought them up earlier this year.

Regardless, as dt_dc pointed out, even those proposals show the FCC very clearly pushing MSOs towards all-digital, no analog cable systems.

And buried deep in that document is the statement: "... for which the cable operator provides a connection"Which basically translates into wherever the cable company is providing a box or CableCard. Just because you have wiring doesn't mean the cable company is "providing" a connection... you have to pay them for each connection to have them compelled by law to support that connection. That's one reason why it is essential for cable company boxes to provide RF Out (Channel 3/4).

So it looks like this is a battle between people with "cable ready" TVs and "digital cable ready" TVs.

I wonder how the cable ready people would have felt if, two or three years after "cable ready" tvs hit the market, the cable companies decided on a different standard and all of their channels disappeared? This is exactly what time warner cable is doing by using SDV to those "digital cable ready" customers who have cablecards.

All digital sounds like the real direction cable companies should take rather than SDV. As long as the FCC permanently prohibits cable from using SDV for existing channels, I will be happy. If the FCC doesn't step in, who in their right mind would go out and buy a cablecard 2.0 set (or DCAS or whatever) knowing that cable could just go and change the standard again?

So it looks like this is a battle between people with "cable ready" TVs and "digital cable ready" TVs.

I wonder how the cable ready people would have felt if, two or three years after "cable ready" tvs hit the market, the cable companies decided on a different standard and all of their channels disappeared?...
did this sort of happen for "cable ready" tvs? i mean back in the day (which was a tuesday), you still needed a box to receive scrambled cable channels even if you had a "cable ready" tv

I wonder how the cable ready people would have felt if, two or three years after "cable ready" tvs hit the market, the cable companies decided on a different standard and all of their channels disappeared?Feelings are not the issue. I don't think anyone is really saying, "You shouldn't feel disappointed."

Not to change the subject, but I am confused about cable cards in general (newbie here)! :eek:

I just had a STB (Tivo HD box) from TWC installed for our bedroom. What a mess. :mad:

First I have a new Sony LCD and was getting some of the HD channels with just the cable plugged in. It has a nice information bar, etc.

Since this is a bedroom application, I wanted a very clean, easy to use system with only one remote. What I got was a big, hot running box with a remote that doesn't seem to work with many of the TV functions (which could just be programming). Tons of TWC advertising, and just a bad TV experience overall.

I am quite willing to dump the DVR, so I was wondering if what I am really looking for is a CableCard, which I know nothing about? Can I just use my Sony remote and still get all the HD picture quality?
What are the CableCards target market?

First of all, does your Sony even accept a cablecard? Many sets don't.

First of all, does your Sony even accept a cablecard? Many sets don't.

Good question! :D
I am not even sure how I can tell. :eek:

Your user manual should identify the location of the slot. "if" your set accepts a CC then you will have access to all the same channels as an STB EXCEPT on-demand and the guide will not work.

I am not even sure how I can tell. :eek:
This article (http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/cablecard.htm) has some pictures of CableCARD slots.

Good question! :D
I am not even sure how I can tell. :eek:

What model is your TV?

Brandon

What model is your TV?

Brandon

Sony KDL-40SL130/U2

But I may take it back to get an V3000 or XBR version

Well I pulled my card and did a full channel scan. I get all the local HD stations PLUS DiscoveryHD. I might just cancel everything except expanded basic. Discovery lately is the only channel with anything of value.

Exactly what I did. After having no problems with my Sony HD TV and Sony HD DVR working with two cable cards (for two years), I bought a Tivo series 3 (sold the Sony DHGHDD500) and the cable "tech" (Brighthouse of Indianapolis) couldn't get either CC to work in the Tivo. Against my protest (it's their CC, after all) he took the CC out of the working TV and put it into the Tivo. Of course, it didn't work, un-married it's self from the TV, and then I had no digital TV reception. He couldn't get the TV CC to authorize again, nor the two CCs in the Tivo. He offered to leave a STB for me to use until he could figure out what to do next. I told him NO, I didn't want a STB and to remove all three CCs and cancel my digital programming (digital channels, HBO, Showtime, and HD package). Which he did. I'll now save $50-$60 a month on programming (we didn't watch a third of the channels anyway) and not have to deal with Brighthouse Cable (any more than necessary with expanded basic cable) and cable cards.

So, in a way the cable company "won" by doing as little as possible to make cable cards work (they have no real technicians in my city anymore, Marion, IN) but in another way they lost ($600 a year from me). Not sure how that makes business sense.

The best part is the QAM tuners in the TV and Tivo tune in all the HD network channels, without cable cards, plus several other channels.

WOW,
If we can get 1 million more cable subscribers to follow the bright man above, we might be looking at making a difference in this country!!!!!

Bann HDTV until they get the Cable Cards working.....
Or just ban the cable companies until they get this all fixed....

Nicely done Larry!!!

WOW,
If we can get 1 million more cable subscribers to follow the bright man above, we might be looking at making a difference in this country!!!!!

Bann HDTV until they get the Cable Cards working.....
Or just ban the cable companies until they get this all fixed....

Nicely done Larry!!!Who are you... a shill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill) for Time Warner? :p

WOW,
If we can get 1 million more cable subscribers to follow the bright man above, we might be looking at making a difference in this country!!!!!

Bann HDTV until they get the Cable Cards working.....
Or just ban the cable companies until they get this all fixed....

Nicely done Larry!!!

Not what I did or said.

I was very happy with the two cable cards I had. They worked fine for over a year. I enjoy HD TV tremendously. It's just my local cable company has cut back on real cable technicians and no one here can do cable card authorizations (apparently). Since I have a VHF, UHF antenna and extended basic cable there is no reason to go through the hassle of dealing with cable cards and Brighthouse cable to receive a few extra channels we normally watch (especially for $50 more dollars a month). I'll probably change my tune when I don't receive ESPN HD NFL football this fall but maybe not.

My web page:

http://home.indy.rr.com/challengerul/antenna.html

No, I'm not shrill, I'm just saying it like it is, this is a big problem not getting the cable cards fixed and or working. My big hate is at Comcast, my brother is with Time Warner, and I begged and begged for Time warner, but Comcast bought out time warner, so Comcast is the only game in town for me, my brother is with Time warner and has had not one glitch since day one, but when I read many on here that can't get support from Comcast.
I guess point being, I felt it will be better to show the companies that we consumers will not tolerate not getting support.

It's the same old problem......when you're the only game in town, there is just less incentive :mad:

No, I'm not shrill, I'm just saying it like it is, this is a big problem not getting the cable cards fixed and or working. My big hate is at Comcast, my brother is with Time Warner, and I begged and begged for Time warner, but Comcast bought out time warner, so Comcast is the only game in town for me, my brother is with Time warner and has had not one glitch since day one, but when I read many on here that can't get support from Comcast.
I guess point being, I felt it will be better to show the companies that we consumers will not tolerate not getting support.My wife has a cousin who lives in a newly developed, upscale townhouse community in the metro Baltimore/DC area. He has Cox Cable who ran RG-6 coax ~30' from the street to his garage then made a two way split into the kitchen with the 2nd leg going to the basement. In the basement there was another two way split into a seven way splitter with the other leg going to the MBR. One of the legs from the seven way splitter went to a 2nd floor office where he wanted Cox to install a cable modem. After two visits the Cox Cable technicians could not figure out why their modem would establish a network connection from his 1st floor MBR but not the 2nd floor office? :confused: They said he had to use the cable modem from the first floor MBR because "The Builder" had not wired the 2nd floor correctly to support an Internet connection. :rolleyes:

Fortunately, I happened to visit him one weekend and knowing that he could get on Comcastic’s network from the 1st floor MBR, moved the wire going to the 2nd floor office onto the MBRs connection of the two way splitter and wallah (http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/dictionaries/difficultwords/data/d0013707.html)! :D

Then I proceeded to set up his wireless & now he's mobile. :)

I'm wondering how the cable cards have been going? From what I have read, the new Mitsubishi line of lcd's, the 144 and 244 series have cable cards, I do not know of any other makes or models, so it would be nice to see what has been going on, and who know's maybe there has been some strides into making some progress.
I'm pursuing the new model Mitsubishi Diamond lcd's with cable card, and looking forward to see how they work.

Some new interesting cable card news for your reading enjoyment:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6559

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/the_future_of_high_def_cablecards/

I retract all (all right some) of my cable vision / cablecard complaints.

I finally relented and got LG factory service to come out and look at my 42" LG LCD TV. Using a special remote, he enabled a maintenance mode on the TV which sent maintenance data to his laptop wirelessly (slick). It showed error codes on the board that holds the cablecard.

I opened up my wireless internet router and he was able to check stock (not in), order a replacement board ($400, covered under 1-yr factory warranty), and set up my email address to get service order/calls status.

He should be back in 3 weeks. I hope this will give me reliability in the cablecard decoding area.

Why we can't buy CableCard STBs now. (http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/missing-cablecard-set-top-box.ars)

I think that's been posted before, but in case it hasn't... this is the bit that pretty much sums up the article and the whole issue:Neither company wants to start fielding calls from customers who want to know why channel 67 is fuzzy and HBO is still scrambled, so both continue to sell only to cable operators, who handle customization and support.Americans are simply not willing to pay enough for cable boxes or DVRs to make selling them direct to the public, without a significant monthly fee, a sufficiently profitable endeavor.

Americans are simply not willing to pay enough for cable boxes or DVRs to make selling them direct to the public, without a significant monthly fee, a sufficiently profitable endeavor.If Scientific Atlanta intends to sell the same crap (e.g. SA8300HDC) directly to the consumer, count me out.

Eventually, TiVo’s/TVs will provide native two-way support for digital cable interactive services (e.g. SDV, PPV, on-Demand) via M-Card or DCAS systems, which will obviate the cable provider's traditional STB connection to their network.

Unfortunately, many of these technologies will not come to fruition until well after the analog shutoff date.

Americans are simply not willing to pay enough for cable boxes or DVRs to make selling them direct to the public, without a significant monthly fee, a sufficiently profitable endeavor.
Some STBs and DVD recorders with QAM tuners are currently being sold to the public without any monthly fees. However, they lack CableCARD support. So perhaps the public is just not willing to pay enough for CableCARD support.

Millions of TV sets have been sold with built-in CableCARD support. Essentially this merges a cable box into the set. Thus there isn't any huge impediment to selling CableCARD equipment per se. People forget that simple cable boxes are not the point. People hate them. The whole idea of CableCARD is to either make the box disappear completely (integrate into TV set just like a traditional analog tuner), or to be able to offer competitive high-end boxes with more bells and whistles than would be available from the cable company aka TiVo (DVR, internet based video downloads, home networking support, etc).

I don't get that article at all. The point is not to be able to go out and buy a basic settop box. The point is to either get rid of the box, or be able to buy a much better box. Both of which are easily obtainable in the market today.

Of course, lack of 2-way functionality on anything but cable company owned settop boxes is a huge disadvantage. It's not a level playing field at all. So it's no wonder that even the above two use cases have been constrained. Were 2-way services available, you'd see an explosion of both.

Which brings us all the way back to DCAS.

Been getting very frustrated with Charter. There was an outage with the fire last Thursday or so... Ever since I can't get HD. Had error 161-4, which apparently looks like an issue with the Head End to the CableCARD (probably firmware). Error has never repeated I just can't find any channels unless I eject the card (in which case I can only get the analog channels).

They've sent a signal 3 or 4 times... I cycled the TV for two of em, but I can tell these techs don't have any experience, so not sure if the timing on these is right or not. Should I reset the CableCARD? Would it do any worse? Reset before they send the signal? Seems like I only get about 4 or 5 minutes before the TV says it can't find any channels.

Extremely frustrating since they can't get a tech out on the weekend until the 15th they say. Insanity. Guess I'll be watching more Blu-ray and playing more PS3 and 360.

I don't understand how some of these three companies below are building new HD HTPC's and selling these for 1750 and higher, and then not having issues with the cable cards?

Here are three companies building HTPC's with cable cards. How can they be given the right to use these but not the consumer???

http://www.vidabox.com/products_magnum.php
http://www.okoromedia.com/models_GX.htm
http://www.niveusmedia.com/products/dcr.htm

They seem to be spending a fair amount of time building such a machine without worrying about issues with cable card support.....
Humm......

Some STBs and DVD recorders with QAM tuners are currently being sold to the public without any monthly fees. However, they lack CableCARD support. So perhaps the public is just not willing to pay enough for CableCARD support.

Say that to people that have spent several hundred for Tivo, and having issues with Tivo and cable cards. That's a price that people are paying for cable card...Look above at post #912 from Larry Davis, he pretty much sum's it up.

FiOS TV will cure the Cable TV SDV blues. ;)

Anybody has recent FIOS Cable Card experience?

The FIOS install in my neighborhood is imminent and I wanted some real world feedback.

I have spoke with many people who have switched to the FIOS system which uses a Motorola CableCARD and they absolutly love it. Only thing is that if your TV has the TV Guide on Screen feature it will no longer work.

Anybody has recent FIOS Cable Card experience?

The FIOS install in my neighborhood is imminent and I wanted some real world feedback.

I have been using two bedroom TV's with CableCard. No problems. FIOS installation was back in April 2007. When watching SD channels CableCard picture quality is vastly superior to the SD box or the HD-DVR. Not much difference in HD.

Only thing is that if your TV has the TV Guide on Screen feature it will no longer work.


I have Panasonic plasma with TV Guide feature, and it works just fine with Motorola CabeCard.

I have been using two bedroom TV's with CableCard. No problems. FIOS installation was back in April 2007. When watching SD channels CableCard picture quality is vastly superior to the SD box or the HD-DVR. Not much difference in HD.You're giving me reason to hope! :)

I have (2) PDPs & both are equipped with CableCARD slots but I stopped using a CableCARD because Time Warner is using SDV to add HD channels.

I also have FiOS Internet/phone service, but no FiOS TV is available in Upstate NY yet. :(

Right now, I'd say Verizon FIOS is the best deal. Excellent picture quality, more channel choice than most cable systems, highly reliable and fast internet, solid land line phone system and reasonable rates. Before, I was with Time Warner for more than 20 years in the same location (including its predecessor cable companies.) I can see the difference. I hope they will not get complacent and lower their standards in the future.

Verizon FiOS offered me Internet & phone service for 2 years @ $69.99 per month. :)

How many HD channels does your FiOS provider carry?

Verizon FiOS has ~30 HD channels, but four of those are premiums.

Verizon FiOS has said it will add 30 new HD channels for 60 total this spring, although the actual schedule is more like this:

IN(VHO10) 4/1
VA(VHO9) 4/7
VA(VHO9a) 4/14
NY(VHO5) 4/21
MA(VHO6) 5/12
RI(VHO6a) 5/12
DE(VHO8) 6/2
PA(VHO8) 6/2
NJ(VHO8) 6/2
NJ(VHO7) 6/23
MD(VHO4) 7/21
VA(VHO4) 7/21
FL(VHO2) 8/18
CA(VHO3) 9/1
TX(VHO1) 9/22

You're giving me reason to hope! :)

I have (2) PDPs & both are equipped with CableCARD slots but I stopped using a CableCARD because Time Warner is using SDV to add HD channels.

I also have FiOS Internet/phone service, but no FiOS TV is available in Upstate NY yet. :(

I have CC on Panasonic (TV Guide works fine), what do you use instead of cable card for SDV?

I have CC on Panasonic (TV Guide works fine), what do you use instead of cable card for SDV?To receive SDV channels, you'll need either the cable company's box, or a Tivo with the upcoming USB SDV adapter.

Verizon FiOS does not use SDV so that wouldn't be an issue with that provider.

I'm about to get my new HDTV hooked up in a week or so. I'm on IO from Cablevision in the CT area.

The HD 4200 box they supply is crap.....slow menu system and just bad overall. There DVR option is another 10 a month and isn't supposed to be that great either.

I have straight family cable and don't use any of the VOD functions. The TV I bought, Sony xbr4, does not have a cable card hookup and the QAM will only receive the non-encrypted channels. Is there an external card reader, without the Tivo subscription fees etc, that will work instead of the Cablevision supplied SA box? If I'm stuck with the SA box model 4200, can I just buy one and have Cablevision install the Cablecard into (so I get rid of the rental fees)?

I just want my channels and don't need the menu system etc (it sucks with the Cablevision box......so I'll find a way to live without it.

Sorry, but nothing currently in production.

Sorry, but nothing currently in production.

What about buying a 4200 or 4300 and having IO cable install the cards?

What about buying a 4200 or 4300 and having IO cable install the cards?

Buying the boxes is out, since they will either be stolen.....or Cablevision will tell you to jump in a lake if they aren't.

CableCARD or nothing......so I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I also don't have any other options, since my building doesn't allow SAT.

I hate cable.

Buying the boxes is out, since they will either be stolen.....or Cablevision will tell you to jump in a lake if they aren't.

CableCARD or nothing......so I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I also don't have any other options, since my building doesn't allow SAT.

I hate cable.

Well, if you don't want a Tivo, your only other options are a CableCard HTPC. These things are expensive, but they work.

As for Satellite, there are certain FCC "laws" that prohibit a building manager from stopping people from getting Satellite. You should look into that if you really want Satellite.

ft

As for Satellite, there are certain FCC "laws" that prohibit a building manager from stopping people from getting Satellite. You should look into that if you really want Satellite.While there are such laws, they don't go far enough to enable most renters to get satellite.

Well, if you don't want a Tivo, your only other options are a CableCard HTPC. These things are expensive, but they work.

As for Satellite, there are certain FCC "laws" that prohibit a building manager from stopping people from getting Satellite. You should look into that if you really want Satellite.

ft

I'm a condo owner....and do not have an area in which I have sole use to hang a dish.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Bummer.....but without a balcony that is mine....I'm screwed.

The HTPC is another option. I do have a bunch of machines laying around......so I might, with enough time, be able to set something up.

I'm a condo owner....and do not have an area in which I have sole use to hang a dish.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Bummer.....but without a balcony that is mine....I'm screwed.

The HTPC is another option. I do have a bunch of machines laying around......so I might, with enough time, be able to set something up.

Same here and in Massachusetts with a northeast facing balcony....

SIGH....

Same here and in Massachusetts with a northeast facing balcony....

SIGH....

I got my new Sony Bravia and hooked up the the SA4250HD. The updated version, from the one my friend has, uses a HDMI port and the menu system is decently fast. It's not as fast as the non-HD version.....but for 6 bucks a month....I can live with it.

In addition, I also hooked up the cable directly to the TV and am able to use QAM for PiP with non-encrypted channels. Good enough for now.

I moved my Panasonic TH-42PX500U to my bedroom about a month ago and had the cable company install a cable card and it works great. No problems with the install and it took a few minutes for the channels to load. A perfect solution for my bedroom and can still get all of my pay and HD channels.

I was reading through this thread and thought i should throw out a few thoughts about working with cable cards.

Cable cards a very sensitive creatures. They will not work unless the signal being provided to them is almost flawless.

1. This includes the SIGNAL LEVEL in dB coming to them. The signal range that general cable eq works at in the field is 0 to +10dB with analog signals and 0 to -10dB with digital signals. (please note that every channels typically has a slightly different signal level; meaning while one of your HD stations may be within signal range another HD channel could be out) However with cable cards that signal range seems to be closed down meaning keep the digitals away from that -10dB mark as well as that 0dB mark. (note that cable network's levels change slightly, 1-3 dB, all the time. so that is why it is so important to squeeze that range down to, let's say -3 to -7dB on the digital side.

2. In order to get all of your wonderful HD content the QAM signal coming in must be free of errors. What we are talking about is making sure your BER and MER are at good levels and free of most errors or at least so few errors that they are correctable by FEC. (These two refer to the quality of the signal)

3. A third huge important issue is to make sure that not just the line going to your cable card device is perfect but that all your lines are free of NOISE and INGRESS. Bad fittings, poor line sheilding, RG59, tight bends, staples, old tvs or other devices that feed noie back, nicks and cuts, old splitters, radio shack amplifiers, are all things which can ruin the quality of QAM signal by getting allowing noise to mix with it.

4. Even with the perfection of the all of the above by your cable technician and of your home/business wiring there is still the idea of PROVISIONING. There aree always going to be computer/human mistakes in the balancing and provisioning of eq on your account, and unfortunatley you have no control over it. All you can do is to keep asking if your account is balanced and try to find the person at the cable or other hd provider who is the account/cable card specific guru.

5. Additional problems can include customer eq, which seems like the primary issue addressed on this thread, so i'll be breif. Firmware upgrades are important and most cable card devices now include the correct firmware. Bottom line: if you are having issues esp getting an error code, contact the manufacturer to see if you need a firmware upgrade, they dont make money by contacting you.

Ladies and gentlmen, I hope some of this has been helpful. In conclusion cable cards do provide a better quality picture allowing you to get all your fav chs(minus 2way services) but at the cost of the patience and time in setting them up.

tech out.:cool:

I have a friend who has a Motorola M-Card installed and her FW upgraded to the latest version. All the channels were coming in even encrypted for around 15 min, and then after the Cable tech left the cable card dropped out again. I checked the CC errors diag screen and saw an error "Failed to Set DCFR 4". I pointed out this error to the cable tech who had no idea what this meant and advised me he is going to contact his Head end tech which was over a week ago. Can anyone tell me what this error means. Thanks.

I finally did give up:

too many issues with the one way cable card and with Comcast in general: their customer service and unwillingness to resolve cablecard issues wore me down

First I turned in 4 cablecards from Sharp LCD TV's: then sold my Tivo S3 which kept losing the cablecard signal: signal levels started to vary wildly over the last year: I saw signal levels vary by 15 db from week to week probably due to road construction in my area

I canceled my Comcast TV service (still have Comcast internet with Blast) and went to DirecTV HD