Okay, I am back here with hopefully my last attempt at getting clarification.

Seeing as I do not have over $1,000 to spend, the LC32GP1U is out the question.

That leaves me with just the Samsung one currently, specifically the LNT2642H.

Now, how bad is the lag on that TV? I mean, I don't plan on playing nothing like Guitar Hero on it, but how bad would it be for me, if say, I played Street Fighter 3 on it in 480i?

I saw this today http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/cables/impact-video-to-pc-converter .

I'm a bit new to HDTV technical know-how, so please excuse my naivete.

I looked over the FAQ and it says games lag when upscaling. Alright, fair enough. However, upscaling doesn't have to take place when the game console outputs at the native resolution of the screen. Am I correct so far?

So here's the deal: I have an xbox 360 and a 50" SXRD (Lccos, not LCD or whatever they use these days), and I output the 360 at 1080i. Nonetheless, games undoubtably lag... I play Guitar Hero and Rock Band, and always have to adjust for lag in the options, but even then, it is a bit unplayable on more difficult songs that I can otherwise do fine on my LCD monitor.

So here's my confusion: the xbox 360 can match the res of the screen, why am I still lagging? Is there more to HDTV lag than merely upscaling?

Thanks for any help.

Your TV is 1080p correct? That means by sending it 1080i you are first interlacing a progressive image at the box and then de-interlacing it at the TV. Interlacing and de-interlacing are both far more time consuming and lag causing problems than scaling is (and introduce video artifacts). I assume you're sending the TV 1080i because you're hooked up over component and your TVs component input won't accept 1080p. If this is the case you should find out if your TV will accept 1080p over VGA and if it will then buy a VGA cable for your 360. If it won't then try sending the TV 720p, all you'll be doing is letting the TV do the scaling instead of the box and if your TV has a good scaler it should look pretty much the same minus all the time is takes to interlace and de-interlace the signal.

The best solution would be to just use HDMI, however I assume your box doesn't have an HDMI out. If it does hit up Monoprice, buy a cheap HDMI cable, send your TV 1080p, and enjoy.

is there any articles showing a list of how much each LCD tv lags by?
i bought an LG 32LC7D and i've noticed the lag, and wondering if other lcd tv's handle lag about the same (without using game mode). Is LG slower than other brands? the lag has made some of my games very difficult to play as well as i used to

So what would be the best way to hook up a Dreamcast to an HDTV? I keep hearing varying opinions on Composite, S-Video, and VGA when I try looking for the answer elsewhere on the web, and a search for "Dreamcast" on this thread doesn't really turn up much.

What would be best for reducing lag, and what would be best for overall picture quality?

VGA would be the best looking by far. The only problem with that is, though most DC games support VGA, some do not.

What would be best for reducing lag, and what would be best for overall picture quality?

VGA on both counts. I have a Dreamcast that I hook up to my Samsung DLP via VGA and it looks fantastic and there's no lag to boot.

So what would be the best way to hook up a Dreamcast to an HDTV? I keep hearing varying opinions on Composite, S-Video, and VGA when I try looking for the answer elsewhere on the web, and a search for "Dreamcast" on this thread doesn't really turn up much.

What would be best for reducing lag, and what would be best for overall picture quality?

VGA would be best since you can output 480p with the games that support it eliminating interlacing and deinterlacing.

is there any articles showing a list of how much each LCD tv lags by?
i bought an LG 32LC7D and i've noticed the lag, and wondering if other lcd tv's handle lag about the same (without using game mode). Is LG slower than other brands? the lag has made some of my games very difficult to play as well as i used to

I'd like this too.
For any display.

i just took my xbox360 into a tv store and ran it in 480i mode and video split to test which tv's do better (the LG 32lc7d has a video out so comparing to it makes it easy)
my finding is that LG lcd's, inlcuding their plasma models have very bad lag compared to the rest, i was able to test a hitachi 50 inch plasma, LG 50 inch plasma, LG 32lc7d, LG 32lb4d, toshiba regza 32" lcd 67u series, and sony 32" lcd s3000.

i ran call of duty 4 to compare by aiming at objects like a car and quickly trying to aim and shoot at something else several feet away and quickly back again. the slower tv's it's very hard to do and comparing side by side you can very easily see the differences. also note i hold my own with this game, with a lagless* crt tv i have very quick aim and don't miss or overshoot and can get into top 3 in any online game mode with experienced players, once i'm warmed up. a tv with a lot of lag however, will send me to the bottom everytime with maybe one kill

the 2 plasma's i wasn't able to video split, but trying them felt about as sloppy as my own LG 32lc7d. the 32lb4d diddn't seem to do any better, i forgot to turn off trumotion for the test, but it looked like it was a frame faster. the sony and the toshiba were way faster than the LG. nothing was run in a just scan mode. to my knowledge you can't even run 'just scan' in 480i over rca composite

monday i'll be taking my tv back and i may try testing the toshiba to the sony if i can get a hold of a real video splitter.. i'm planning to buy one of those 2 now. reason i care, is i'd like to play ps2 games, and plenty of other older systems with as little lag as possible. and trying to play something like baseball on my LG it is very hard to do, very noticable in a homerun showdown, instead of homeruns to deep left centerfield i hit foul balls to right side or strikes

Please test some Panasonics. I tried to find a TV that had no lag over a year and a half ago and eventually gave up. I tried both by hand and I also brought in a laptop and did the same sort of test that http://hdtvlag.googlepages.com/ did. The only TVs that didn't seemingly have any lag at all were Panasonic LCDs. I tried every other brand, and every other brand had lag.

I eventually gave up, and I'm studying as a foreign exchange student now, so buying a new TV is unnecessary at this point, but I'd be curious to see how Panasonics still stack up.

FYI, I use a Westinghouse LVM-37w3 with a DVDO iScan VP30+ABT102d. This reduces lag on 480i material to between 8-10ms, and 480p/720p/1080p to 0-4ms. 8-10ms is as fast as you can physically deinterlace 480i material without severe image degradation, and I doubt there will ever be a better algorithm than the one Dale Adams wrote for DVDO.

Actually, I've been thinking of a simple idea for a deinterlacing algorithm that I think would be as fast as possible, and would do exactly what we gamers want. I'm just wondering how I could go about getting the idea into a product. Let me explain:

There are two deinterlacing schemes that involve no picture processing, but nobody actually uses them, because they produce serious artifacts. They are Interweaving and Alternating.

With the Interweaving method, the lines for each frame are simply interwoven with the lines from last frame, to produce a whole picture. When an even line frame comes in, it's simply combined with the odd lines from the last frame, and when an odd line frame comes in, it's simply combined with the even lines from the last frame.

Again, this method uses no picture processing. However, the problem with it is that the even and odd frames are from two different points in time, so they don't match up, producing a nasty "combing" effect, especially if there's horizontal movement between the two frames. Real deinterlacers (like DVDO's) do stuff like "edge-adaptive processing" to try to correct this.

With the Alternating method, each frame is sent to the TV as is, and the missing lines are simply filled in with black space. So when an even frame comes in, the odd lines just end up being black, and when an odd frame comes in, the even lines end up being black.

This also involves no picture processing, but the downside is that the whole picture ends up looking a much darker because half of each image is black.

What I'm wondering is.... why not do what CRT TVs do? CRTs, of course, display in 480i natively. That is, each frame that a CRT shows only has half of the horizontal lines. Odd and even line frames are alternated, and in each frame, the missing lines are simply left blank, like with the Alternating method. However, the picture doesn't look too dark, because the phosphors in a CRT take a little bit of time to fade, so instead of the unused lines being completely black, they show a faded after-image of the previous frame. And because the lines are faded, you don't focus on them, so you don't notice the combing effect associated with Interweaving.

So, why can't a deinterlacer just do that? Use the Interweave method, but fade the lines from the previous frame instead of showing them completely or leaving them blank. The best part is, the tiny amount of processing involved in fading the lines from one frame could be done before the next frame arrives, so when a frame comes in, it could just be interwoven with the faded previous frame and sent to the TV, with no processing time at all!

The effect of this method is that your deinterlacing time would be essentially non-existent, and that your HDTV picture would end up looking a lot like a CRT picture. Manufacturers of deinterlacers are generally trying to make interlaced movies and TV look as progressive as possible, which is probably why nobody uses this method. But for most of us gamers trying to play our old consoles on an HDTV, it's exactly what we want! We don't need fancy-shmancy edge adaptive processing. We just want our games to look and play like they always have (but on a bigger, cooler screen)!

It would be really nice if some manufacturer like DVDO would create a simple, relatively inexpensive, but extremely fast de-interlacer/scaler that did nothing but deinterlace 480i signals with this kind of method and spit them out in 1080p over HDMI, and then market the device specifically toward gamers. No multiple resolutions, no optional add-on cards sold separately, no advanced processing, no endless list of options, and no any of the other fancy professional bells-and-whistles that make their products so insanely expensive. Just deinterlace and scale our games as fast as possible so we can play without the frustration, and sell it to us at a price we can afford.

is there any way i can test my tv with gh3 demo from xbox live i dont have the guitar so i cant strum i dont think unless you can do it on controller with that said i have the sony kds60a3000 when i put on gamemode i dont feel lag at all really

Hi,
I'm trying to connect my Dreamcast to a Vizio GV47LF using a Naki VGA adapter. For some reason my VGA output trys to run at 50Hz instead of 60Hz. Is it possible I accidentally got the PAL version of the Naki? Or is it the Dreamcast itself that is the problem (it's a US version for sure)? If anyone has any ideas on what I could do, I'd appreciate it. For now I'm just running it through the S-Video port.
Thanks!

So scanning through this thread I haven't seen a lot of talk about CRT HDTVs. I know the topic creator said even those have issues, but what does the community have to say about top of the line CRT HDTVs? I'm desperate to get input lag equivalent to my SD CRT, and I'm even willing to pick up a new tv to do it.

So opinions on CRT HDTV's ?

It would be really nice if some manufacturer like DVDO would create a simple, relatively inexpensive, but extremely fast de-interlacer/scaler that did nothing but deinterlace 480i signals with this kind of method and spit them out in 1080p over HDMI, and then market the device specifically toward gamers. No multiple resolutions, no optional add-on cards sold separately, no advanced processing, no endless list of options, and no any of the other fancy professional bells-and-whistles that make their products so insanely expensive. Just deinterlace and scale our games as fast as possible so we can play without the frustration, and sell it to us at a price we can afford.

My god....that was beautiful.

Bump. Got a question here. Noticed in the FAQ that this was mentioned:

The other possible solution is to buy a VGA to Component adapter (such as the Audio Authority 9A60 VGA to Component Video Converter, google it). Such an adapter allows you to change the output of your VGA box/Dreamcast VGA Cable so that it plugs into a normal component video input on the back of your HDTV.

I don't have a VGA port on the back of my HDTV, so I probably will have to go this route with my Dreamcast. However, I've got a question - does a VGA to Component adapter like the 9A60 cause any input lag?

I apologize for the bump, but I have a large post to share. :)

I just purchased a Sharp Aquos 42" LCD. The product name is LC-42D64U. I believe they're discontinuing this model, so I got it at a great deal (which is why I didn't go up into a 120 Hz model). Read on for my story.

Like other posters in this thread, I've been interested in buying an HDTV for a few years now, but I didn't want to settle for a poor solution. I was disheartened to learn that many solutions needed $2000 boxes imported from Japan. I even posted in this thread back around page 14 or so, showing my displeasure. I did research, tried HDTVs at friends' houses... I hated the results. I knew I would have to settle if I bought any HDTV.

Recently, a good friend of mine bought a Sharp Aquos 26" LCD. I brought over my gaming setups to his house to test the lag. After a ton of tinkering, we were able to get Guitar Hero 2's in-game lag calibration down to about 30 ms, which was the best TV I had found at the time. I could play GH serviceably, and I was able to get used to the lag in games like Smash Bros Melee (though it was noticeable). But beatmania IIDX and 3rd Strike, two games I take quite seriously, were still unplayable (in IIDX, goods filled the screen and in 3rd Strike, I was missing full-screen fireball parries unless I was intentionally early; good luck trying to, say, point-blank-parry supers).

After finding out about this sale for the LC-42D64U at a local store, though, I decided to pick up the TV while I could and come home and mess with it a bit, taking care to note their return policy.

For my first test, we plugged in 3rd Strike (on PS2) through the normal composite cables, and tried without changing any settings. As you can expect, the results were less than perfect. I decided to try GH3 (not 2)'s lag calibration system. My first test came up to be about 30 ms, which I thought was extremely weird. After about 10 tests, I averaged about 20 ms lag. I played a few songs with the lag adjustment, and it was pretty reasonable, but I still sensed a few misses, and I knew 3rd Strike was no good. Disappointed, I gave up for the evening.

Coincidentally, a good friend of mine chose to buy a PS3 that day. He brought it over, because we had planned to play MGS4 for most of the day. He bought a set of Sony component cables which worked with both the PS3 and the PS2 (I didn't know PS2 had component cables, because basically no games support 480p on PS2). We had a grand time playing MGS4 in 1080p and Devil May Cry 4 in 720p through these cables with zero lag. That was encouraging to learn, because some TVs even have problems with this.

On a whim, I decided to try 3rd Strike again through the components. I didn't expect any change in results... after all, 3rd Strike is a 480i game, so the upscaling has to be done SOMEWHERE. Indeed, my TV even said in the top corner "480i [component]" when I turned on the PS2. My friend fired a full screen fireball at me, and I got hit. But then we remembered that we had turned the A/V mode to something other than "game", when we were playing MGS4. We switched it back to game, and he threw the fireball at me again. I ... parried it. He threw a full screen 5-hit fireball super at me, and I... I somehow parried it. We went on to play an hour of 3rd Strike *exactly* how we play it in the arcade. To confirm that this worked with other games, I popped back in GH3. The lag calibration said 0 ms. I popped in the truest of all tests (beatmania IIDX) and I ended up even beating some of my old CRT scores. I popped in Melee (a Gamecube game played through my Wii hooked up through component cables), there was 0 lag. I tried Brawl (a Wii game), there was 0 lag.

Now, all these were through component cables. I hooked up my old N64 through composite cables (since I still play Perfect Dark for fun quite often). We had done this the first night, before we really messed around with game mode, and there was about 20 ms of lag (as above), which is less than a frame of lag since PD runs at 30 fps most of the time. We felt a little "drunk" walking around, but within 5 minutes we were playing through it just fine. Still... we had to settle just a little bit. I just tried it now, making sure the TV was on game mode and... MAYBE there was 5-8 milliseconds of lag. I can't really say, because walking around the various levels felt exactly like my CRT, and I was making all the same shots I normally make with no difficulty at all.

Here is a Youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TETrO0GypU) of my TV in action, demonstrating that there really is 0 lag with a variety of different games. I'm so ecstatic with the results of this that I am 100% positive I don't need my old CRT anymore. This TV's "game mode" REALLY means it. I wanted to share my results with this thread, in case someone can get use out of it.

I should also say that the PS2 games through component looked very sharp, despite being lagless. It almost looks upscaled in some way. There's no pixelation or blurriness. I don't really understand how they do it, but I'm not questioning it. :) The N64 games had a little bit of pixelation/blurriness, but it's certainly not deal-breaking (and, after all, it's to be expected if the picture isn't being improved). As an example, PD was 100% playable in every way.

To summarize, here are my results:
Any console N64 or older through composite: arguably <10 ms lag (and maybe none). I've played PD for 8 years and I couldn't tell a difference in running/shooting between this TV and CRT. Must be in game mode.
PS2 through components: zero lag. Must be in game mode; not in game mode produces lag if the game is 480i (ie, almost all PS2 games).
Wii/PS3 through components: zero lag. We tried 480p, 720p, and 1080p games. 720p and 1080p games do NOT need game mode to be lagless.
Not tried: HDMI input (though I can't imagine how this would change anything)

I wholeheartedly recommend this particular TV to anyone who wants a *perfect* lagless solution with no huge extra costs. It has HDMI input, full 1080p support, and is certainly reasonable for price (not to mention, Sharp is widely considered to be the best brand for HDTVs). The only "downside" is that it's a 60 Hz TV. A lot of newer TVs have 120 Hz support which makes very fast-moving scenes a little sharper. I didn't do any testing on the comparable 120 Hz Aquos, because it was well out of my price range, so I can't say whether the extra processing for 120 Hz creates lag or not. Maybe I'm a bit behind the times and TV manufacturers have had this lag problem fixed for some time, but every TV I've ever looked at that is supposedly "totally lagless" has proven to be far from the case. Nonetheless, I couldn't be more happy with this TV, and I hope this post helps someone out!

Infil
you know, a lot of PS2 games do actually support 480p through component, even Street Fighter 3rd Strike I believe.
=)

Infil
you know, a lot of PS2 games do actually support 480p through component, even Street Fighter 3rd Strike I believe.
=)

Most don't. 3rd Strike for PS2 has never supported 480p.

Great post Infil. I'm pretty much in a similar situation as you in regards to input lag, cept I havent found a solution. I don't know how I remain so comeptitve at Brawl with the input lag my Samsung gives me but Im sure my luck is going to run out soon.

Ive always heard great things about the Sharp models in terms of gaming needs. They seem to be made for gaming.

According to hdtvtest.co.uk the Sony Bravia W4000 series, and the 2008 Panasonic Viera PZ series have 0ms Input lag, both were 30ms faster than the reference Samsung F96 which has 30ms Input lag.

by 2009 this should be a non issue for gamers when buying a TV.

I apologize for the bump, but I have a large post to share. :)

I just purchased a Sharp Aquos 42" LCD. The product name is LC-42D64U. I believe they're discontinuing this model, so I got it at a great deal (which is why I didn't go up into a 120 Hz model). Read on for my story.

Like other posters in this thread, I've been interested in buying an HDTV for a few years now, but I didn't want to settle for a poor solution. I was disheartened to learn that many solutions needed $2000 boxes imported from Japan. I even posted in this thread back around page 14 or so, showing my displeasure. I did research, tried HDTVs at friends' houses... I hated the results. I knew I would have to settle if I bought any HDTV.

Recently, a good friend of mine bought a Sharp Aquos 26" LCD. I brought over my gaming setups to his house to test the lag. After a ton of tinkering, we were able to get Guitar Hero 2's in-game lag calibration down to about 30 ms, which was the best TV I had found at the time. I could play GH serviceably, and I was able to get used to the lag in games like Smash Bros Melee (though it was noticeable). But beatmania IIDX and 3rd Strike, two games I take quite seriously, were still unplayable (in IIDX, goods filled the screen and in 3rd Strike, I was missing full-screen fireball parries unless I was intentionally early; good luck trying to, say, point-blank-parry supers).

After finding out about this sale for the LC-42D64U at a local store, though, I decided to pick up the TV while I could and come home and mess with it a bit, taking care to note their return policy.

For my first test, we plugged in 3rd Strike (on PS2) through the normal composite cables, and tried without changing any settings. As you can expect, the results were less than perfect. I decided to try GH3 (not 2)'s lag calibration system. My first test came up to be about 30 ms, which I thought was extremely weird. After about 10 tests, I averaged about 20 ms lag. I played a few songs with the lag adjustment, and it was pretty reasonable, but I still sensed a few misses, and I knew 3rd Strike was no good. Disappointed, I gave up for the evening.

Coincidentally, a good friend of mine chose to buy a PS3 that day. He brought it over, because we had planned to play MGS4 for most of the day. He bought a set of Sony component cables which worked with both the PS3 and the PS2 (I didn't know PS2 had component cables, because basically no games support 480p on PS2). We had a grand time playing MGS4 in 1080p and Devil May Cry 4 in 720p through these cables with zero lag. That was encouraging to learn, because some TVs even have problems with this.

On a whim, I decided to try 3rd Strike again through the components. I didn't expect any change in results... after all, 3rd Strike is a 480i game, so the upscaling has to be done SOMEWHERE. Indeed, my TV even said in the top corner "480i [component]" when I turned on the PS2. My friend fired a full screen fireball at me, and I got hit. But then we remembered that we had turned the A/V mode to something other than "game", when we were playing MGS4. We switched it back to game, and he threw the fireball at me again. I ... parried it. He threw a full screen 5-hit fireball super at me, and I... I somehow parried it. We went on to play an hour of 3rd Strike *exactly* how we play it in the arcade. To confirm that this worked with other games, I popped back in GH3. The lag calibration said 0 ms. I popped in the truest of all tests (beatmania IIDX) and I ended up even beating some of my old CRT scores. I popped in Melee (a Gamecube game played through my Wii hooked up through component cables), there was 0 lag. I tried Brawl (a Wii game), there was 0 lag.

Now, all these were through component cables. I hooked up my old N64 through composite cables (since I still play Perfect Dark for fun quite often). We had done this the first night, before we really messed around with game mode, and there was about 20 ms of lag (as above), which is less than a frame of lag since PD runs at 30 fps most of the time. We felt a little "drunk" walking around, but within 5 minutes we were playing through it just fine. Still... we had to settle just a little bit. I just tried it now, making sure the TV was on game mode and... MAYBE there was 5-8 milliseconds of lag. I can't really say, because walking around the various levels felt exactly like my CRT, and I was making all the same shots I normally make with no difficulty at all.

Here is a Youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TETrO0GypU) of my TV in action, demonstrating that there really is 0 lag with a variety of different games. I'm so ecstatic with the results of this that I am 100% positive I don't need my old CRT anymore. This TV's "game mode" REALLY means it. I wanted to share my results with this thread, in case someone can get use out of it.

I should also say that the PS2 games through component looked very sharp, despite being lagless. It almost looks upscaled in some way. There's no pixelation or blurriness. I don't really understand how they do it, but I'm not questioning it. :) The N64 games had a little bit of pixelation/blurriness, but it's certainly not deal-breaking (and, after all, it's to be expected if the picture isn't being improved). As an example, PD was 100% playable in every way.

To summarize, here are my results:
Any console N64 or older through composite: arguably <10 ms lag (and maybe none). I've played PD for 8 years and I couldn't tell a difference in running/shooting between this TV and CRT. Must be in game mode.
PS2 through components: zero lag. Must be in game mode; not in game mode produces lag if the game is 480i (ie, almost all PS2 games).
Wii/PS3 through components: zero lag. We tried 480p, 720p, and 1080p games. 720p and 1080p games do NOT need game mode to be lagless.
Not tried: HDMI input (though I can't imagine how this would change anything)

I wholeheartedly recommend this particular TV to anyone who wants a *perfect* lagless solution with no huge extra costs. It has HDMI input, full 1080p support, and is certainly reasonable for price (not to mention, Sharp is widely considered to be the best brand for HDTVs). The only "downside" is that it's a 60 Hz TV. A lot of newer TVs have 120 Hz support which makes very fast-moving scenes a little sharper. I didn't do any testing on the comparable 120 Hz Aquos, because it was well out of my price range, so I can't say whether the extra processing for 120 Hz creates lag or not. Maybe I'm a bit behind the times and TV manufacturers have had this lag problem fixed for some time, but every TV I've ever looked at that is supposedly "totally lagless" has proven to be far from the case. Nonetheless, I couldn't be more happy with this TV, and I hope this post helps someone out!


Nice review. I also believe that if you go HDMI you would get even less lag than through component, since component is an analog signal. Also since HDMI is a full digital signal your picture will be sharper and have less artifacts.

HDMI is the worst regulatory spell to be cast on the consumer.
There is absolutely no benefit to the user, just headaches.

According to hdtvtest.co.uk the Sony Bravia W4000 series, and the 2008 Panasonic Viera PZ series have 0ms Input lag, both were 30ms faster than the reference Samsung F96 which has 30ms Input lag.

by 2009 this should be a non issue for gamers when buying a TV.

Well, if you pick up a model comparable to the Sharp I purchased, it's already a non-issue.

Granted, I'm glad that other manufacturers finally seem to be stepping up and removing the problem across the board.

And yes, I looked the first night I had my HDTV, 3rd Strike for PS2 doesn't support 480p (and neither do any of the IIDX games)... though, I believe GH3 does. We still used it without progressive scan for the timing tests, though.

Infil, I just watched your YouTube video, and I'm absolutely astounded (by the lack of lag, and by your amazing skills at probably every game ever).

I'm looking for a 32" 1080p TV, and Sharp has a D64U model at that size, but they also have a GP3U model at that size, which has a specific "Vyper Drive" that's supposed to eliminated lag even further. After watching your video, I'm really starting to lean towards that set, though I want to keep an open mind about the other manufacturer's TVs...

Anyway, I have a question. In Game Mode on the D64U, are you able to change any of the picture settings (contrast, brightness, color, tint, sharpness, etc.), or are you locked into whatever Sharp defaults Game Mode to? Also, if you are able to change the picture settings in Game Mode, does doing so affect input lag?

Thanks!

Infil, I just watched your YouTube video, and I'm absolutely astounded (by the lack of lag, and by your amazing skills at probably every game ever).

I'm looking for a 32" 1080p TV, and Sharp has a D64U model at that size, but they also have a GP3U model at that size, which has a specific "Vyper Drive" that's supposed to eliminated lag even further. After watching your video, I'm really starting to lean towards that set, though I want to keep an open mind about the other manufacturer's TVs...

Anyway, I have a question. In Game Mode on the D64U, are you able to change any of the picture settings (contrast, brightness, color, tint, sharpness, etc.), or are you locked into whatever Sharp defaults Game Mode to? Also, if you are able to change the picture settings in Game Mode, does doing so affect input lag?

Thanks!

Heh, thanks. Games are easy. ;) I didn't have time in the video, or I would have shown DDR and Guitar Hero too. :)

I can't vouch for the Sharp model with that "Vyper Drive" thing... I haven't heard of it before (it must be new). I'm pretty sure the D64U model would operate exactly like mine at the smaller size, though. I can always recommend that you try it out in the store (or just take it home with you, if the store has a good return policy) with a variety of consoles and games. 480i games are the biggest test, of course.

Actually, I had been messing with sharpness/brightness settings and stuff, and I had thought MAYBE it had affected lag ever so slightly (we're talking < 8 ms). The more I played, though, the more I think I was just making it up (I would set it back to old settings, then play worse, for example). There's also the issue of a new surround sound system I hooked up (http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/9392/tvsetupty8.jpg), which is taking sound input directly from the PS2 through digital audio out now, so maybe there's a bit of difference there in terms of what I hear and what I see, since the TV is not synching it up anymore. These are all big "maybe"s, though... all my lag tests, with the sound system and the brightness/etc changed, went through properly. It was just that "sinking feeling" I got sometimes, however unfounded it actually was. I'm a worry wart, you see. :)

To answer your question, yes, while in "game mode" you can change all the picture settings (and it remembers them for you, and you can reset them to factory defaults if you think you screwed something up). I'm going to go ahead and say no, it doesn't affect the lag. After playing IIDX with the settings set at a variety of weird things over the course of an hour, the variance on my scores was about what it normally is. Without the sound system hooked up (as was the case in the video I shot), it's definitely perfect... the sound system is almost certainly the cause of whatever unfounded sinking feelings I have. :)

Yeah, the TV still has to have some delay, especially with a 480i signal, since it needs at least two fields to make a full frame.

And the Vyper Drive thing is not new. It's been around since the GP1U series early last year. :)

Bump. Got a question here. Noticed in the FAQ that this was mentioned:



I don't have a VGA port on the back of my HDTV, so I probably will have to go this route with my Dreamcast. However, I've got a question - does a VGA to Component adapter like the 9A60 cause any input lag?

I'll let you know. I just got one of those and going to hook up my DC tonight to my Toshiba TW56x81 via component and let you know

You don't need an adapter.
You need a VGA to Component cable.:)

Hi Guys, I could definitely need your help.
Regarding a Super Famicom deinterlacing problem on HDTV!
(bottom of the picture is OK, top is not o_O )
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3263.msg21709
Thanks a lot for any hints!
Later,

TSR

Infil: Wow, I'm amazed. I own an Sharp Aquos LC-42D62U (an older version, but same size as yours), and I always wondered how good it was in handling 480i signals. I haven't done any serious lag tests on it, but I think your post on your TV certainly makes me more comfortable with my model. :)

I'll let you know. I just got one of those and going to hook up my DC tonight to my Toshiba TW56x81 via component and let you know
So, uh, any results on that?

You don't need an adapter.
You need a VGA to Component cable.:)
No, you do need an adapter. All VGA-to-component cables only work if the VGA source is capable of a Y-Pb-Pr signal. The Dreamcast VGA box/cable is only capable of RGB, so a VGA-to-component transcoder is needed.

I hooked up my DC through the VGA box with the 9A60 and the results thus far have been outstanding.

Obviously picture quality is suberb. I've tested the following games and thus far have not noticed lag.

Marvel Vs. Capcom
Marvel Vs. Capcom 2
Garou Mark of the Wolves
Alien Front Online

I need to try out Guilty Gear and Capcom Vs SNK

As I stated earlier the pic quality is outstanding. I've seen the VGA box on smaller computer monitors but never on a 56" TV. Talk about colors popping. It blew me away.

Has anyone tested the game mode on the smaller versions of this line (namely the LC32D64U or LC37D64U)?

I've got some credit at Futureshop from a PSP return and would like to put it towards an LCD with little or no input lag with older consoles and time sensitive games. Infil's LC42D64U looks like just the thing, but Futureshop doesn't have any of the 42" models in stock anymore, just the 37" (LC37D64U) and the 32" (LC32D64U).

Sorry for the bump, but I'm new to LCD TVs and could use some advice. Thanks.

Infil, how well does the D64U deinterlace signals from low resolution game systems?

I ask because if I'm feeding my Panasonic TH-42PX60U a signal from my NES or Super NES, the deinterlacer in the TV doesn't seem to work correctly. When the lines are first drawn and sent to the TV, there's sort of a jutter or shakiness around anything newly drawn or moving on the screen.

I think it's because of the strange tricks older consoles used to output their low resolution images (320 x 240 or around there) over 480i signals... You know, like the TV's deinterlacer isn't expecting something like that...

I recently bought a Panasonic TC-32LZ800. I got similar time to the JVC "Iart" AV-27FA44 on the lag test vs a CRT computer monitor.

Well the settings always give the same time whatever what's turned on. So there's no need for game mode on this panel.

Test with "S-video 480i"

CRT Monitor VS JVC Iart
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/jvc.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/jvc2.jpg


Panasonic vs CRT Monitor
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/Spanasonic.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/Spanasonic2.jpg


Test done live on youtube(have fun pressing pause). I used a CRT TV which comfirm the test & product being totally legit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbvreeOk7PA

I did some input lag testing on the following TV's that I thought some of you might be interested in:

Samsung LN46A630
Sharp LC-52D64U
Samsung LN-R409D

http://blog.arogan.com/2008/09/lcd-hdtv-input-lag-tests.html

ARogan, thanks for those tests.

From what you've written, it seems like the Sharp D64Us aren't as good as we thought before, in terms of minimizing input lag...? But I guess it's still better than both of those Samsungs, at least when it's in Game Mode...

Hmm... Maybe you could also test the Samsung LN-R409D without renaming the input to "GAME", just to make sure that naming the input "GAME" actually has no effect? Or to see if it really does have an effect?

But yeah, again, thanks for the testing and the information! :D

I did some input lag testing on the following TV's that I thought some of you might be interested in:

Samsung LN46A630
Sharp LC-52D64U
Samsung LN-R409D

http://blog.arogan.com/2008/09/lcd-hdtv-input-lag-tests.html

Thanks ARogan. I was actually looking at the LN46A50 so I'm curious about your results. Would you by any chance be able to conduct the test on your LN46A630 using a 720p and/or 1080p source?

Thanks ARogan. I was actually looking at the LN46A50 so I'm curious about your results. Would you by any chance be able to conduct the test on your LN46A630 using a 720p and/or 1080p source?

Yeah that's the problem with my test and the equipment I have. Ideally you would want a laptop or pc that outputs both 480i to a CRT and 1080p over hdmi to the hdtv you are testing at the same time. Have both the CRT and the HDTV in the same photo. This would give you a closer real world input lag measurement on playing a ps3 or xbox 360.

The problem is my CRT is 24", and I'm not dragging that around the house. Second, my ancient inspiron 8600 only has vga out. I guess I could go vga but then you still have the analog to digital conversion in there. Also, I don't think I would be able to use clone mode since the LCD panel on the laptop is only 1650X1050. I might play around with that if I have time.

What is funny about the sharp is I've been gaming on that thing for about a year just in standard mode. I guess I'll be using game mode more often now. I still love my sharp :-)

Thanks ARogan. I was actually looking at the LN46A50 so I'm curious about your results. Would you by any chance be able to conduct the test on your LN46A630 using a 720p and/or 1080p source?

I've updated my input lag post with a lot more tests:
- millisecond stopwatch + 30fps timecode video
- composite, hdmi, vga, game mode, hdmi PC rename.

http://blog.arogan.com/2008/09/lcd-hdtv-input-lag-tests.html

I will say I'm fairly surprised at ARogan's results, assuming that his results on the Sharp translate to my TV which I boasted about recently (they should; my model is the same, but only 42").

I've played on TVs that have had 35-40 ms of lag (measured by, say, the average number over 20 tests using the lag calibrator in Guitar Hero 2/3, however much you want to trust that), and they were more or less unplayable for me in the games I demonstrated in my video. I'm confused how some output modes on the Sharp get the same calculations in ARogan's demonstrations.

I suppose my claims of "perfectly lagless" were a bit overzealous anyway, but I *do* stand by my earlier claim that it is the TV with the least lag I have ever played on. If there *is* lag, I can't notice it, playing IIDX on my PS2 through component input; a game whose timing windows are +/- 15 milliseconds and where I'll instantly know if something is awry, and all my frame-specific combos and visual-cue hit confirms still work in 3rd Strike. We can play 30 fps games on the N64 as if there was no problem (games we've had 10 years of experience with on a CRT, and would feel any fluctuation). And recently, I've bought an Xbox 360 and hooked it up through HDMI, and there've been no problems there (playing timing-sensitive games like Soul Calibur 4, which has frame-specific input moves called "just frames", and I feel confident performing those on my TV vs. someone's CRT which I also play on).

Numbers are numbers, though. I never brought any to the table when I made an initial post. I am surprised to see the numbers as high as ARogan has found... though I still stand by my earlier recommendation. :) I know I'm also basically posting saying "trust me, I'm a good gamer and I would notice", so you can take my posts for what they are. I tried to back up my claims with a Youtube video in my other post, though, to provide visual evidence of what I cannot substantiate with vacuous arguments about my skill. :) (Basically: "see look! I can't do it before, and now I can!", in addition to a direct comparison with the CRT to give an optimal case). Hopefully TVs continue to improve, but until that time I will be content with my purchase!

I just want to make it clear that I hold no claim to the accuracy of my numbers. Everything from the baseline numbers to the two different methods I used to my kind of crappy camera leads to a lot of interpretation. I tried my best under the conditions and equipment I had though. I would say just playing on the TV and how it feels is just as important on determining input lag.

I've updated my input lag post with a lot more tests:
- millisecond stopwatch + 30fps timecode video
- composite, hdmi, vga, game mode, hdmi PC rename.

http://blog.arogan.com/2008/09/lcd-hdtv-input-lag-tests.htmlThat is awesome. I'd love to see that done with more projectors, as it would definitely influence my buying decision.

Infil, I would probably make the same claims as you. As an avid gamer myself, I've found my Sharp 46D64U series as a godsend for HD gaming.

One of the easiest ways to see lag is with the Wii, just move the cursor around on the dashboard at different speeds. At 480i on game mode it was slightly behind my actions, but completely tolerable.

At 480p, even without game mode, the Wii cursor was in perfect 1:1 harmony with my movements. I couldn't have been happier, as even 480p on my old old Samsung (LTP266W) couldn't deliver that kind of accuracy with Wii.

Xbox 360 and PS3 so far at 1080p have given me the same courtesy, I play lots of fighting games as well and haven't run into any hiccups, even with game mode off.

Banding issues aside, this is a gamers dream TV so far.

That is awesome. I'd love to see that done with more projectors, as it would definitely influence my buying decision.I've gone ahead and started this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1068844

For anyone interested in projectors for gaming, please either check it out for the info, or add any helpful information you can, if you're able.:)

So does anyone know of newer, more up-to-date sites that test for input lag or have good info as far as what newer plasmas/lcds have little to none?

Anyone tested an elite Pioneer for how much they have in the best of circumstances?

Ah, input lag, another little headache to add to the epic migraine of choosing an HDTV. :)

As a frequent gamer, I've been getting caught up in the mania of lag figures and stopwatch screenshots while trying to choose a 40-46 inch LCD. With the advent of Rock Band 2 and it's hardware-based lag calibrator, I've come up with some surprising numbers myself on my CRT HDTV.

The Rock Band 2 hardware uses a light sensor placed in front of the screen and a series of flashes to calibrate the time between outputting the flash and perceiving it on screen. I'd always assumed, being a CRT, my Sony Wega HD (model KV-30HS420) had no lag as long as it was sent its native resolution, 1080i, but apparently that's not the case. Here are the results I got when outputting the Xbox 360 at different resolutions:

1080i: 31 ms
720p: 14 ms
480p: 30 ms
480i: 45 ms

These were surprising results to me. Even the Rock Band 2 manual suggests a setting of 0 ms when using a CRT, but I don't think they figured on the oft forgotten HD CRT.

The good part about this is, I've apparently been playing Xbox 360 since it launched with 31 ms lag, unaware. To me, this means if I can find an LCD with 31 ms lag or better then it's fast enough. Comforting; the Samsung 6 series and the Sharp tested by ARogan seem to be able to get there, albeit only via VGA. However, I'll be playing at 1080p, not the 720p used in the tests, and our measuring methods are completely different. It would be silly of me to treat our results as though they were derived from the same methods. What I need, and am searching for, is a list from other players with the Rock Band 2 hardware who have used the auto calibration and posted their figures for their TVs! As it's hardware based, it'd be a nice standardized way to compare input lag on a range of current HDTVs. If I do find this, perhaps on the Rock Band forums, I will post it.

Aside from this, I'm baffled by my much faster lag results when setting the Xbox 360 to 720p. If this was an LCD I'd understand – sending 720p would mean the TV would only have to scale to 1080, not de-interlace and scale. But my CRT HDTV certainly can't output 720p (as I recall from their heyday, almost none can) so presumably it has to scale this to its native 1080 and, erm, 'interlace' it too. How can it do this in half the time it takes to simply display a signal sent to it in its native 1080i with no conversion required? Some of it may come down to the Xbox, which people often cite as running largely at 720p internally then scaling to whatever resolution you've chosen in the display settings, which must take some time. This theory doesn't bode particularly well for my hope that, say, feeding a Samsung A630 a signal in its native 1080p will yield faster results than ARogan's 720p example, which it obviously had to scale.

All of which, of course, leaves me flummoxed until I can find that mythical thread of auto calibration numbers from Rock Band 2 players.:)

Aside from this, I'm baffled by my much faster lag results when setting the Xbox 360 to 720p. If this was an LCD I'd understand – sending 720p would mean the TV would only have to scale to 1080, not de-interlace and scale. But my CRT HDTV certainly can't output 720p (as I recall from their heyday, almost none can) so presumably it has to scale this to its native 1080 and, erm, 'interlace' it too. How can it do this in half the time it takes to simply display a signal sent to it in its native 1080i with no conversion required? Some of it may come down to the Xbox, which people often cite as running largely at 720p internally then scaling to whatever resolution you've chosen in the display settings, which must take some time. This theory doesn't bode particularly well for my hope that, say, feeding a Samsung A630 a signal in its native 1080p will yield faster results than ARogan's 720p example, which it obviously had to scale.

All of which, of course, leaves me flummoxed until I can find that mythical thread of auto calibration numbers from Rock Band 2 players.:)

It really must be that the 360 takes some time to scale to 1080i from the game's native 720p resolution. Perhaps going from 720p to 1080i is harsher on the 360's scaler since it has to create an interlaced signal.

I would imagine (hope) that setting the 360 to output 1080p would yield a much lower delay than that.

I'd like to thank everybody that has provided any information whatsoever in the thread, I've been skimming through a lot of it and it's quite invaluable for me.

Here's my situation as I see it. I currently have a 21' chunky CRT monitor that takes up way too much space on my desk at home, and I'd like to replace it. At the same time, I help run a fighting game event here in Melbourne, and I'd like a screen that works well with at least HD gaming systems.

With LCD monitors, I want to know whether or how they are affected by scaling. It really doesn't matter to me whether there are black horizontal bars or the standard (1080 or 720) I go with. Given that widescreen monitors are typically 16:10 instead of the normal 16:9 this could cause complications? Also, I read vague reports that a 24' is the most native resolution size for this purpose? I don't want to go much larger, as I want it to be portable to a degree.

The flipside is of course using a similar sized LCD TV as a substitute for a monitor, which would give me the bonus of component for older consoles, even if they have to scale. Is there any problems using these TVs with a computer other than the obvious price difference?

Has anyone compared timecode+camera results to the Rock Band 2 optical eye to make sure the results are similar?

Infil, I would probably make the same claims as you. As an avid gamer myself, I've found my Sharp 46D64U series as a godsend for HD gaming.

One of the easiest ways to see lag is with the Wii, just move the cursor around on the dashboard at different speeds. At 480i on game mode it was slightly behind my actions, but completely tolerable.

At 480p, even without game mode, the Wii cursor was in perfect 1:1 harmony with my movements. I couldn't have been happier, as even 480p on my old old Samsung (LTP266W) couldn't deliver that kind of accuracy with Wii.

Xbox 360 and PS3 so far at 1080p have given me the same courtesy, I play lots of fighting games as well and haven't run into any hiccups, even with game mode off.

Banding issues aside, this is a gamers dream TV so far.

What do you guys think of the 52D64U? Eventhough it's larger with a 52" screen size, would it have the same results being that it's also a D64U series?

Can anyone tell me what is the best way to reduce input lag on the LN46A650 on HDMI ?

I know for fact that game mode and HDMI on port 2 renamed PC ( exactly the same as a VGA cable )are the 2 best ways, but what's the best one ?

Hey guys, I've been searching the tubes for a long time and I'm happy I stumbled upon this thread. I don't see anything about frequency written though. Do 120hz HDTVs reduce lag? Is it worth the extra $$ to get one?

And I have to ask what people's response is for the best 40-46" HDTV (up to $1500) for reducing lag to play Halo 3 on a XBOX 360.

I was looking at the options and I like the LN46A630. Is there noticeable lag on this set? I read ARogan's tests and it looks like lag can be limited to 40 ms, but I don't know how reproducible/translatable his methods are to xbox360 games..

Thanks so much.

anyone?

Could I do the timer test without a camera? I dont have a camera but couldnt i just hit pause and see what it shows for each display?

Could I do the timer test without a camera? I dont have a camera but couldnt i just hit pause and see what it shows for each display?
No, that would show you the same number everytime because by the time you hit pause the slower will have caught up regardless of how long of a delay and they will display the same time.

What the camera is for is to basically pause time itself, not the stopwatch/timecode program, to see what is being displayed at any given moment. What you're asking for would require a pause button found only in the movie Click.

Input lag is easily the most overblown issue in gaming history. Unless you're playing an incredibly time dependent game like certain pc games (mouse and keyboard), Guitar Hero type games, or just games that involve absolute precise timing, input lag is NOT going to destroy your gaming abilities.

It's milliseconds, not seconds. If you can't adjust to milliseconds of lag, you just have a really terrible reaction time.

I had a Samsung 71F 120hz with AMP High for 99% of my games. Even online I wouldn't have any issues popping of headshots, or getting the upper hand on other people.

It's not like you're gonna mis-time a jump of Mario and fall into a pit. If did, you need to just not play anymore.

People make it sound like actual seconds of lag.

I played games like COD4, Halo 3, Battlefield with my 'LAGGY' TV set with AMP High. No problems handing out ass-whoopings. If I failed, I blamed it on my own skills, not the TV.

You are correct...for casual gaming.
If you play online on a hardcore server that uses a small "hitbox", no crosshair (where you have to use the weapons sites, not spray and pray) it will make a difference.
Just get on a server with a 200 ping to get an exaggerated simulation. You may have to lead a target by 2 feet for the bullet to arrive at the target at the same time.
It is a matter of total input lag.

Hi guys,

Just wanted to point out some results I got testing a Sony Z4100 versus a Samsung A650 for gaming. Please see the post in the Sony Z thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15217205#post15217205) and the one immediately following it here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15217220#post15217220).

In short, using the light sensor that comes with Rock Band 2 I measured the input lag on these two sets in various modes, many many times, and got the following:

Sony Z4100
Game Mode On: 63 ms
Game Mode Off: 85 ms
VGA: 63 ms

Samsung A650
Game Mode On: 47 ms
Game Mode Off: 80 ms
VGA: 25 ms

(All measurements made in 1080p, with everything possible disabled, including MotionFlow/AMP, all contrast toys, all noise filters etc. I have an older Xbox 360, so could not measure HDMI, only component.)

I am keeping the Samsung, playing in VGA, and returning the Sony, which also had a smearing issue I found distracting.

I will probably still have both sets together for a couple more days, if any old schoolers want me to test 480i or 480p.

could you test 480p/i on the samsung? I'm thinking about getting the matte 630. I need to just take my 360 or wii into bestbuy and try it out.

Seems like everything I find on the web regarding this is 1-2 yrs old. How are plasmas vs LCD for input lag? I can handle not playing games for the break-in period. is it worth it?

Those were great posts Ayton. I would LOVE to see the results over HDMI. Maybe you can track down a 360 with HDMI from a friend for some testing? I have to assume that the Samsung is getting this reputation from somewhere. It must be the HDMI connection then, although logically I would have assumed that a digital input would undergo less processing and therefor have less lag.

tried to play hot shots golf out of bounds on the ps3 with my 32" samsung lcd...there was some lag using the traditional shot method which is the timing method...now that i am in the market for another lcd about the same size...what are the best as far as least lag...i know its milliseconds but it still throws you off on the timing games.

- So I picked up a rock band 2 guitar for 360 and it has audio/video sensors to automatically calibrate for lag.
Sharp LC-52d64u: 1080p, hdmi, game mode off: 30ms (multiple tries, results were very consistent and repeatable)
samsung LN46a630: 1080p, vga: 45ms (though something was wrong because I couldn't get a consistent reading. I had values as low as 20's and high as 80's so I don't trust this number. I tried everything, turned lights on, lights off, different distances/angles, backlight levels, etc)

- So I picked up a rock band 2 guitar for 360 and it has audio/video sensors to automatically calibrate for lag.
Sharp LC-52d64u: 1080p, hdmi, game mode off: 30ms (multiple tries, results were very consistent and repeatable)
- Did you mean Game Mode On?

Input lag is easily the most overblown issue in gaming history. Unless you're playing an incredibly time dependent game like certain pc games (mouse and keyboard), Guitar Hero type games, or just games that involve absolute precise timing, input lag is NOT going to destroy your gaming abilities.

It's milliseconds, not seconds. If you can't adjust to milliseconds of lag, you just have a really terrible reaction time.

I had a Samsung 71F 120hz with AMP High for 99% of my games. Even online I wouldn't have any issues popping of headshots, or getting the upper hand on other people.

It's not like you're gonna mis-time a jump of Mario and fall into a pit. If did, you need to just not play anymore.

People make it sound like actual seconds of lag.

I played games like COD4, Halo 3, Battlefield with my 'LAGGY' TV set with AMP High. No problems handing out ass-whoopings. If I failed, I blamed it on my own skills, not the TV.

I have to beg to differ. I have a 71f also and I also play COD4, COD WAW, GoW and I have to say my TV is horrible. I have tried everything I have come across trying to solve this. It's real frustrating when you are walking slowly and you know someone is just around the corner and you are waiting and next thing you know you die out of nowhere so you watch the killcam only to find out that the guy had already rounded the corner and shot you down and you never even saw him as he stood in front of you and shot you down. When I first started playing I just thought i was horrible at the game but then I played the game on my nephews TV one day and I was dropping people left and right. that was the first time I got an airstrike and Heli. I had a 13" crt and started playing on it and my K/D and accuracy instantly started to climb. But the problem with that is after about an hour of the standard def 13" my eyes and head are killing me due to squinting trying make sure it's an enemy i'm about to shoot at or a rock. And don't even get me started on rock band and/or guitar hero because that's just a disaster. I love my TV. For Movies and such it's great but I hate the fact I can"t even use it to play certain games on and I have to change a bunch of connections just to enjoy a game.

The only thing I have not tried is using the xbox VGA cables. Could this help?

Is my TV seriously screwed up? I know it isn't any kind of connection lag also because it does it in private matches as well. Anyone have the same issues with the Samsung 4071f or am I alone?

Thanks

- Did you mean Game Mode On?

I double checked. I was in user mode. NOT game mode.

I double checked. I was in user mode. NOT game mode.
- Do you know what the input delay is with Game Mode On? 30ms is very respectable with it Off. :)

Hi,
Is there a difference in input lag with s-video vs component video? I am only able to test my tv with s-video because my laptop cannot do anything else (other than VGA, which I'm using for the reference CRT). My set (a Samsung 61a750) gets about 80-100 ms with game mode off and 50-70 with it on. I do not know if it does better with component video instead of s-video which is why I bring up this question.

Most sets do a lot better with Component vs. S-Video simply because it doesn't have to deinterlace the signal (480i). But it also depends on what the original source resolution was.

Ok i was going to upgrade my (CRT)sony 34xbr970 to the samsung LN46A650 but i hear of this gaming lag.I do lots of HD gaming with PS3 and xbox360.This would be my first LCD tv.IS it really that bad?

Ok i was going to upgrade my (CRT)sony 34xbr970 to the samsung LN46A650 but i hear of this gaming lag.I do lots of HD gaming with PS3 and xbox360.This would be my first LCD tv.IS it really that bad?

Read the thread! There are two ways to connect to the A650 that have similar or less lag than you're getting now on your CRT. Yes, high-def CRTs have lag. Very little, but it's there. My Sony HD CRT measured about 30ms. If you're happy with what you have now (I bet, like me, you didn't even realize you had lag on your CRT) then you can match or improve on it with the A650, which measures about 25-30ms using VGA or HDMI 2/PC.

Read the thread! There are two ways to connect to the A650 that have similar or less lag than you're getting now on your CRT. Yes, high-def CRTs have lag. Very little, but it's there. My Sony HD CRT measured about 30ms. If you're happy with what you have now (I bet, like me, you didn't even realize you had lag on your CRT) then you can match or improve on it with the A650, which measures about 25-30ms using VGA or HDMI 2/PC.

When you refer to the HDMI 2/PC connection you mean the HDMI 2 input on the set?So if i were to connect HDMI 2 to my Onk 706 output both my 360 and PS3 would benefit from the lag issue.Bare with me this would be my FIRST LCD tv.And nope i didnt notice ANY lag on the xbr970

Hi, if the resolution on the 360 or PS3 is set to anything other than 1920 x 1080p (native rez of the A650) there will be increased lag because the A650 (any LCD) has to scale (process/convert) the signal.

Does anyone know how the lag compares between a Samsung LED-based DLP (the a750 models) and the Samsung LCD a850 screens?

I just bought the newer Sharp Aquos model, it's two models more recent than Infil's model (52D85U) so Im expecting it to be a very effective gaming machine. I just have one question, would the increase to 120hz have any effect on the lag based on conjecture? Would there be any reason to worry about this? Like Infil Im a bit paranoid, so any input on this would be really appreciated.

Also Im not too informed on what Component cables are? Are those the basic cables that come with the Xbox 360 and PS3, but not the older systems?

Component video is the type of connection that is split into 3 rca connectors, typically color coded as red, green, and blue. They are a higher quality than composite (which is the yellow connector included with the xbox and ps3).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video

I thought I'd share some results on this forum. Just got a Sharp Aquos LC32D64U. Initial results with a Wii were pretty bad (I'm not using the component cables though, so this is in 480i, not 480p). The best I could get in 480i was a 2.5 frame lag (87ms). I wasn't well equiped to test all resolutions, but the TV seems fine in HD:

480i over composite: 87 ms lag
480p over hdmi: 14 ms lag
720p over hdmi: 15 ms lag
1080p over hdmi: 13 ms lag

(All the HD resolution probably have the same lag and the difference is probably just error in counting on my side).

I could just get the component cables for the Wii, but thinking that my old SNES and Sega Genesis will lag is a disappointment (yes, I still play with those from time to time).

For the 480i, the setup was done using a CRT and a Y splitter - both the Sharp and the CRT received the same splitted signal. For the HD resolution, I used mirroring on my laptop. Took pictures of a time code and took the average difference in 20 random frames. The attached picture shows the 2.5 frame lage in 480i

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=127935&stc=1&d=1230600926

Just to follow up on my previous post. I returned the Sharp Aquos LC32D64U (thank you Future Shop for being so hassle free on returns). Instead I grabbed a Sony KDL32XBR6. There was a post somewhere about it being "lag-free". I ran the same tests and this is what I got:

Lag Time:

480i over composite cable:1.8 frame lag (59 ms)
480i over hdmi: 1.3 frame lag (44.6 ms)
720p over hdmi: 1.3 frame lag (43.2 ms)
1080p over hdmi: 0.23 frame lag (7.6 ms) (not bad given that the LCD's response time is 8 ms - though keep in mind that I was comparing with a laptop which also has an LCD with its own response time of ~15-20 ms)

480p over hdmi was not available - instead it took 1080p and upscaled the input. I tested anyway to check if this 1080p would have a lag due to the scaling: 1.8 frame lag (60.7 ms) *Indeed it has quite a lag just for the upscaling*

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=128123&stc=1&d=1230738617

As far as I am concerned, I'll use this TV in 480i (SNES, Coleco, etc.) and in 1080p (computer). I'm not really concerned about 720p, but some people might be and in that specific case, the Aquos performed better.

Visually, although this is for another discussion, I'll say that the XBR does look much better than the Aquos. Except for the default setup (Vivid) which is just horrible (Sony, why oh why use this as default?)

Although this is also a personal issue - I could definitely feel the 87 ms lag on the Sharp, but at 59, it does not bother me. I feel it's still there (especially on the Wii when you point with the remote), but it's below my annoyance threshold. Getting the component cable for the Wii would probably lower the lag (480p instead of 480i). If I get one I'll update the results.

NumeriK, thanks for those tests. I agree that the Sony LCD's in general look better than the Sharp. I'm waiting for my lcoal B&M to call me back about my replacement set, but I'm leaning towards the Sharp simply because of the video processing advantage.

Anyone got result of the LG60 or LG70?



So far it seem that the Panasonic LZ800 is the king of the gaming. :D

The 480i around 15~30ms on the TC-32LZ800 is nasty

I have reason to believe that the HDMI2/PC mode on my Samsung 52A750 isn't displaying all of the detail in a 1080p source. Without PC mode on and my sharpness at 0 the detail on diagonal edges of fine detail stuff is great, but in PC mode the same on screen objects is stepped and jagged, like it is lower resolution.

Is it possible that the TV displaying less digital information to help speed up the lag?

NumeriK: Were your results with the game mode enabled on the Sharp?

Zero HD, When connecting a computer to HDTV all video processing should be controlled with the graphics card settings. The tv processing creates the lag.
AA, anti aliasing, setting takes care of jaggies but slows fps.
Check out (Google) Tweak Guides

Here is specific link but the whole article is worth memorizing.

http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_5.html

NumeriK: Were your results with the game mode enabled on the Sharp?
No game mode on that one (LC32D64U) - that's why they have the "Vyper Drive" enabled model (LC32GP3U) which I could not find anywhere here in Canada. I did turn off all the options that could potentially increase lag time (any temporal filtering, etc).

The LC32GP3U is more expensive by a few hundred dollars, but I would have tried it otherwise. I just wish they'd give us more numbers and less buzz names.

Can someone help me with Guitar Hero 2 on xbox360 to calculate the lag, I got the game but no guitar and no manual and I never played it before anyway...

I went in the video options and started the lag test, now some red circles are scroling down the screen, I guess that I am supposed to hit a button or direction when the scroling circles reaches its target but I have no clue how to do it.

I tried evey button and still the game tells me at the end of the test that it could not get any good value.

Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

Ok I got it, I needed to press down, however my TV sounds to have close to no lag at all:
Game Mode on: 0 ms
Game Mode off: 0 to 10/15 ms

It is a 32D3000 connected in HDMI for the people interested (but you can't buy it anymore)

EDIT: Actualy I am not so sure about my test, exatcly at what time are you expected to press down, at the moment the circle reaches it target or when it is in the target and that it looks like an "eye" ?

I have to beg to differ. I have a 71f also and I also play COD4, COD WAW, GoW and I have to say my TV is horrible. I have tried everything I have come across trying to solve this. It's real frustrating when you are walking slowly and you know someone is just around the corner and you are waiting and next thing you know you die out of nowhere so you watch the killcam only to find out that the guy had already rounded the corner and shot you down and you never even saw him as he stood in front of you and shot you down. When I first started playing I just thought i was horrible at the game but then I played the game on my nephews TV one day and I was dropping people left and right. that was the first time I got an airstrike and Heli. I had a 13" crt and started playing on it and my K/D and accuracy instantly started to climb. But the problem with that is after about an hour of the standard def 13" my eyes and head are killing me due to squinting trying make sure it's an enemy i'm about to shoot at or a rock. And don't even get me started on rock band and/or guitar hero because that's just a disaster. I love my TV. For Movies and such it's great but I hate the fact I can"t even use it to play certain games on and I have to change a bunch of connections just to enjoy a game.

The only thing I have not tried is using the xbox VGA cables. Could this help?

Is my TV seriously screwed up? I know it isn't any kind of connection lag also because it does it in private matches as well. Anyone have the same issues with the Samsung 4071f or am I alone?

Thanks

I have the samsung Lnt 4065, (very similar and I feel the exact same way you do with the exact same thing happening to me EXACTLY as you describe it with someone rounding a corner and blasting me as I am standing there waiting for him.

I am a fairly accomplished COD4 player also. It's very hard to knife people and hit them on the run because in reality I don't think they are where my TV says they are. When guys are running I can have a red dot dead on them, and still miss constantly.

No game mode on that one (LC32D64U) - that's why they have the "Vyper Drive" enabled model (LC32GP3U) which I could not find anywhere here in Canada. I did turn off all the options that could potentially increase lag time (any temporal filtering, etc).

The LC32GP3U is more expensive by a few hundred dollars, but I would have tried it otherwise. I just wish they'd give us more numbers and less buzz names.

Not the Vyper Drive, I mean the Game Mode you can switch to with the AV MODE button on the TV's remote. That's the one being showed off in Infil's video that has no lag, and it's on the same line of TVs that you tested (D64U).

Ok i was going to upgrade my (CRT)sony 34xbr970 to the samsung LN46A650 but i hear of this gaming lag.I do lots of HD gaming with PS3 and xbox360.This would be my first LCD tv.IS it really that bad?

I received my 40" 656 yesterday ( 656 in EU = 650 in US ), i connected the TV to my AV receiver on HDMI port 1.

I've been playing a lot of colin mcrae dirt on my 360 lately, and i was becoming quite good at it too. Yesterday i played for 15 minutes or so and it was quite obvious that i sucked :) I think this is because of the input lag ( measurements on HDMI port1 have shown 60ms lag )

Gaming mode is indeed not an option because it really does horrible things to the image quality ( so much that i wonder why they bothered to include it ).

I'm now going to try connecting to HDMI2 and renaming the port to "PC", this should reduce lag to 30/40ms. If i don't forget, i'll post my findings within a couple of days (or feel free to pm me if i forgot)

I received my 40" 656 yesterday ( 656 in EU = 650 in US ), i connected the TV to my AV receiver on HDMI port 1.

I've been playing a lot of colin mcrae dirt on my 360 lately, and i was becoming quite good at it too. Yesterday i played for 15 minutes or so and it was quite obvious that i sucked :) I think this is because of the input lag ( measurements on HDMI port1 have shown 60ms lag )

Gaming mode is indeed not an option because it really does horrible things to the image quality ( so much that i wonder why they bothered to include it ).

I'm now going to try connecting to HDMI2 and renaming the port to "PC", this should reduce lag to 30/40ms. If i don't forget, i'll post my findings within a couple of days (or feel free to pm me if i forgot)

How did it work with HDMI2 ?

From the test done by hdtvtest.co.uk, the samsung A656 has an input lag "on par" with gaming mode ON, does it mean no lag ? (english is not my first language)

What you say is that the game mode of Samsung does change color settings in such a way that you can't use it right ?

Guys...I bought my LN46A650 a week ago today....

I got it for just $1450 which is a great price..

Here is my set up:

Direct TV hooked up with the HDMI cable that comes with the Direct TV HD Box and connected to HDMI 1

Xbox 360 with HDMI connected with Monster HDMI Cable on HDMI/AVI 2

PS3 with Monster HDMI cable connected on HDMI 3

I don't use HDMI 4

I have the PS3 HDMI labeled GAME (Not Game Mode)

I also have HDMI/AVI 2 for 360 labeled GAME (Not Game Mode)

I have HDMI 1 for Direct TV labeled Satellite


I tried to change HDMI/AVI 2 from GAME to PC but did not notice difference in any lag on my games. I did not like the washed out colors to much but it was not as bad after a few tweaks.

I much preferred my settings on Standard with the HDMI/AVI 2 named GAME (Not Game Mode)

Here are the games I play on my 360

Madden 09

COD 5

NBA Live 09

NBA 2K9

Prince of Persia


On my PS3 I only watch Blu Ray movies and the only game I play a lot is MLB 08 the Show...


Does the lag issue affect me in terms of what I play or is this basically for specific games...

I dont snipe in COD because I just hate sniping...I love to use all other methods and move around and get my kills...

I have been able to get some nice kills from a distance with a regular sub machine gun using my cross hairs.

I dont experience the triple ball affect or any lag on COD that does not allow me to get kills..

In Madden I dont see any lag

neither do I in the other games I mentioned.

Should I just stick to my settings or should I just keep it as PC label and play like that...

If this helps:

I have the 2008.9 firmware which is the latest one that the tv's come with... My t.v was recently made towards the end of 2008

Thanx for any help....

Can someone tell me if it is possible to run the "input lag delay" test with a laptop connected to a TV via HDMI with a millisecond timer running if:

- The laptop screen is not 1080P compatible

- Only the TV connected to the laptop is getting 1080P from the laptop HDMI port

(I am not even sure that if both screens are in ghost mode, the PC can output 2 different resolutions...)

And only then take the pictures to figure out the delay (http://tft.vanity.dk/inputlag.html ; by the way if you have a real program instead of a flash that'd be great) ?

Or both screens needs to run the same resolution ?

Okay, so from what I understand so far the Sharp Aquos LC42D64U 42" 1080p HDTV is capable of nearly no lag in games. >_> But there is still some.


I don't plan on getting an HDTV anytime soon but I have to ask, I noticed that the best device to use to decrease this lag is the iScan VP20/30 + ABT102D, yet the VP50 is no where near the level of these other 2 devices with that chip. What I'd like to know is if the iScan Edge is any better than the VP20/30, or VP50 when it comes to decreasing Lag?

or to simplify it, iScan VP20/30 + ABT102D Vs DVDO Edge in terms of game lag and features? :P


And would it eliminate lag in DLP TV's the iScan devices, or is it still best to go with an LCD if your a gamer?

How about the Laservue, is that any better, or how about the Samsung LED DLP?

Do the Samsung LED DLP, Laservue, and DLP TV's like the ones from Mitsubishi even have a Game Mode?

But are the other Sharp Televisions capable of the same decrease in lag as the Sharp Aquos LC42D64U 42" 1080p HDTV?

As I said before I don't plan on buying an HDTV anytime soon since I'm damn poor at the moment, also I ask about the laservue and TV's such as that in case the price ever goes down to something more affordable. :P

EDIT: included pics!

First of all Im sorry for my english, its not as good as it used to be.



To add more to the topic...

My father bought a w4100 and i did some input lag tests on it (dvi->hdmi, both displays at 1920x1080). I tried renaming the ports and all, results came from hdmi 4 (the one with the audio plugs for the pc). I turned EVERYTHING off, i even tried using the text mode (there was a topic about sharpness of the picture in text mode, and the possibility of it having no post-processing, well i gave a shot).

I did used a lcd, but afaik its one of those really fast ones. My results were pretty close to someone here in this forum, his minimum was 46 and mines 47, i guess my lcd is faster than his. Its a 931bw.

With game mode on i got 47 (minimum) and 60-something. Ill probably upload the pictures later, the camera I used isnt mine :D .
This TV is not even CLOSE to its european-cousin. And its not good for gaming, not at all.

It would be awesome if the forum had a sticky with a list of tvs and their input lag. Ive been trying to compare response times by going to the stores and asking the employees to turn game mode on. Depending on whats playing on the screen (its the same feed) you can spot which tv is faster when theres sudden change in the picture (darkpicture to a bright one). The problem is that i dont know if all the tvs are hooked at one source.

So far im leaning towards a panny z80u.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/Energumeno/DSC02365.jpg
47ms

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/Energumeno/DSC02362.jpg
weird one, 54ms

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/Energumeno/DSC02366.jpg
62ms, max

:confused::confused:;so what is the biggest/best lag free tv that you can get right now.:):D

So far im leaning towards a panny z80u.
I remember playing in a SF3: Third Strike tournament a year or two ago on an LCD, and the lag was absolutely horrific. When I first got my Panny Z85U, the first thing I did was hook up a PS2 and pop in Third Strike among a few other timing-critical 480i games, and I'm happy to tell you that the lag was a non-issue. I even had a few friends over who play the game much more competitively and at a much higher level than I do, and they reported no lag. If it can handle high level Street Fighter at 480i, it can handle anything.

The only game I may have noticed a bit of performance-hinderance was beatmania (PS2, 480i) set to High Speed 2 or 3, which scrolls notes at least twice as fast as the fastest Rockband/GH songs against a completely black background. The notes did have a bit of a shadow to them, but I still managed to hit the notes just about as good as I can on a CRT. This was also only a few hours into the set's life, so it may have gotten even better, but I haven't checked.

So yeah, I can definitely recommend the Panasonic Z series to anyone worried about input lag.

I remember playing in a SF3: Third Strike tournament a year or two ago on an LCD, and the lag was absolutely horrific. When I first got my Panny Z85U, the first thing I did was hook up a PS2 and pop in Third Strike among a few other timing-critical 480i games, and I'm happy to tell you that the lag was a non-issue. I even had a few friends over who play the game much more competitively and at a much higher level than I do, and they reported no lag. If it can handle high level Street Fighter at 480i, it can handle anything.

The only game I may have noticed a bit of performance-hinderance was beatmania (PS2, 480i) set to High Speed 2 or 3, which scrolls notes at least twice as fast as the fastest Rockband/GH songs against a completely black background. The notes did have a bit of a shadow to them, but I still managed to hit the notes just about as good as I can on a CRT. This was also only a few hours into the set's life, so it may have gotten even better, but I haven't checked.

So yeah, I can definitely recommend the Panasonic Z series to anyone worried about input lag.

Thx for your input.

I was thinking about a Z85U or a Pioneer 5020 that is on sale right now. But a few days ago I saw a Samsung and a LG with 120hz on displaying Wall-E and Speed Racer. I was amazed by the smoothness and the absence of noticeable artifacts, that were extremely annoying when I saw, I guess, one of the first Samsung with 120hz about a year ago. So I was about to pull the trigger on a LCD like the Samsung 52LNA630. Now I read all this horror stories about input-lag and I'm back at square one. Input-lag is big deal for me, because I like online FPS, racing games, and used to be a big fan of BEU, Street Fighter IV is about to come out :D!!!

I guess around Superbowl time I'll buy a Plasma to use it 99% of the time for gaming. I already have a DLP Projector for movies :D.

I remember playing in a SF3: Third Strike tournament a year or two ago on an LCD, and the lag was absolutely horrific. When I first got my Panny Z85U, the first thing I did was hook up a PS2 and pop in Third Strike among a few other timing-critical 480i games, and I'm happy to tell you that the lag was a non-issue. I even had a few friends over who play the game much more competitively and at a much higher level than I do, and they reported no lag. If it can handle high level Street Fighter at 480i, it can handle anything.

The only game I may have noticed a bit of performance-hinderance was beatmania (PS2, 480i) set to High Speed 2 or 3, which scrolls notes at least twice as fast as the fastest Rockband/GH songs against a completely black background. The notes did have a bit of a shadow to them, but I still managed to hit the notes just about as good as I can on a CRT. This was also only a few hours into the set's life, so it may have gotten even better, but I haven't checked.

So yeah, I can definitely recommend the Panasonic Z series to anyone worried about input lag.

Thats good to know!
Did you see any green phosphor lag or image retention problems? Well since you played beatmania and SF3 i think you're very capable of noticing stuff like this. Im stunned (and honestly quite skeptic) that the panny can handle upscaling like that, thats great for wii owners.

Ill soon go to sears to see the difference between sharp x toshiba and the panny plasmas x samsung plasmas. Ill ask one of the employees to turn all the eye-candy off.
I just wish i had a laptop with dvi... doesnt anyone here work at BB/sears and has laptop that can do the testings? That would be AMAZING! :D

Again, forgive my english!
___

Btw ill still post the pictures of my tests with the sony w4100.

Thats good to know!
Did you see any green phosphor lag or image retention problems?

I've never experienced image retention severe enough to notice it when moving on to another game or watching TV, but it is noticable when I shut the videogame system off and the screen cuts to black. Often times I can still make out the lifebars and super meters after playing SF2 HD Remix. It's typically completely gone after about 20 minutes of normal use, but when I play marathon 4-5+ hour sessions of HD Remix on it, it can take as long as a few hours to completely wash a black screen clean, but again, has never interfered with play/viewing and does eventually go away.

The phosphor lag is a lingering issue, but it seems to have dissipated since I first got the set. I've probably put about 400 hours on it if I had to guess, and the image juddering and green trails during motion in high contrast scenes become less prominent with each passing week. Right now the only two games that irk me a little are Little Big Planet (blurring and detail loss when the screen scrolls) and Gears of War 2 (ultra bright objects against dark backgrounds and camera movement, some green trails and double imaging).

its good to see that there is still street fighter gamers out there ....i wonder if i still have the skills i had back then on that game............well can someone test halo2 in team snipe when your scoped out to see if theres in lag on head shots.please test this on your lcds ........please ............im looking for a big lcd tv to repalce my 65" crt that i do love... but ......it dooesnt look as good as those 1080ps.....

This is definitely a vary interesting thread. It's a shame that gone are the days of CRTs with no lag and no native resolution. I wish more companies would pay attention to us core gamers and work on input lag!

Anyway, I just bought my first house which has a living room that is perfect for a large HD projection system. Looking to buy a projector in the next month for use on a 120" screen. Like everyone else in this thread, I am an avid gamer who is extremely sensitive to input lag. My friends and I play at a high-level in 2D fighting games...even one frame of lag is noticeable and affects game play in these situations.

Does anyone in this thread have any recommendations for projection systems with low input lag? Thanks!

I updated my last post with pics

This is definitely a vary interesting thread. It's a shame that gone are the days of CRTs with no lag and no native resolution. I wish more companies would pay attention to us core gamers and work on input lag!

Anyway, I just bought my first house which has a living room that is perfect for a large HD projection system. Looking to buy a projector in the next month for use on a 120" screen. Like everyone else in this thread, I am an avid gamer who is extremely sensitive to input lag. My friends and I play at a high-level in 2D fighting games...even one frame of lag is noticeable and affects game play in these situations.

Does anyone in this thread have any recommendations for projection systems with low input lag? Thanks!

Add 500$ for a better scaling chip. That's pretty much the reason why they don't give a damn, lol.

Does anyone in this thread have any recommendations for projection systems with low input lag? Thanks!

I think DLP are the ones with the lowest lag.

I think DLP are the ones with the lowest lag.


I thought it was LCD's and Plasmas with the lowest lag. I just wanted to know if the iScan DVDO VP30 + ABT102D combo or DVDO Edge would completely eliminate it, or almost anyways?

I did think at one point they were good for gaming, considering that they have no burn ins, and had (or use too) have superior colors. But I heard that most current LCD's beat DLP in that regard now. Except maybe the Laservue.

I was wondering that the latency on that machine was. lol

I thought it was LCD's and Plasmas with the lowest lag. I just wanted to know if the iScan DVDO VP30 + ABT102D combo or DVDO Edge would completely eliminate it, or almost anyways?

I did think at one point they were good for gaming, considering that they have no burn ins, and had (or use too) have superior colors. But I heard that most current LCD's beat DLP in that regard now. Except maybe the Laservue.

I was wondering that the latency on that machine was. lol

He was asking about projector. Of course there are no plasma projector ;) and I have no data on lag on HD-ILA like the JVC RS-20 or the Sony VW80.

He was asking about projector. Of course there are no plasma projector ;) and I have no data on lag on HD-ILA like the JVC RS-20 or the Sony VW80.

Oh D:

Slow, DarkOverSoul is slow. ;-;

I know this is the tv thread, but has there been any discussion on AVS about lag through different AVRs? If I want to run HDMI through it what kind of delay are we talking there? A lot of them run video processing even when you don't want them too.

I searched through the AVR forum and a few people tried to start threads, but there was no interest and no solid info in any of them. :(

Hi,
I just got a Sharp LC-65D64U LCD tv, and, while I have only had time to play Guitar Hero World Tour, there is definitely some lag. Now, while the game can be set to compenate that, it won't help for any of my other games.

This is on a PS2 (we also have a Wii, but haven't tried it yet).

The lag is small, but definitely there. What are the best ways to remove it?

Right now, it is connected via Composite cables. Would component cables help?

Thanks!

So far from what ive seen:

1- panny plasma (a z80u to be exactly) beats the sharp d64 (by only a little bit) - all eye candy off, antenna signal @ 1080i

2- d85 beats toshiba 525 (same as above) - its a pain in the ass to find another model, only one I've found was a 540 but the ******* said he couldnt change the picture settings ( best buy, best buy....)

Id say pannys are the fastest with sharp 64 really close. All I did was record a video (its a pain in the ass if the tvs are too far apart) after turning off all the bling and playing it really slow.

It would be nice to compare the d64 with the d85. They're "popular", it wouldn't be hard to find both models in the same store ( i completely forgot to do that :D )

With the looming release of Street Fighter 4 I've really been looking in to purchasing a new LCD. So far I've considered the Samsung LN40A650 and Sony KDLW4100.

The PC mode on the A650 sounds promising but from what I understand picture quality takes a pretty severe hit. The W4100 looks pretty good; minimal lag in game mode but I read some bad things here and there about picture quality and features.

Does anyone have any other displays I could look in to? Thanks.

With the looming release of Street Fighter 4 I've really been looking in to purchasing a new LCD. So far I've considered the Samsung LN40A650 and Sony KDLW4100.

The PC mode on the A650 sounds promising but from what I understand picture quality takes a pretty severe hit. The W4100 looks pretty good; minimal lag in game mode but I read some bad things here and there about picture quality and features.

Does anyone have any other displays I could look in to? Thanks.

All you had to do was going back one page, i posted pics. W4100 sucks, 3-4 frames of input lag.

All you had to do was going back one page, i posted pics. W4100 sucks, 3-4 frames of input lag.

In game mode? I guess the figures quoted on shoryuken.com weren't accurate.

I received my 40" 656 yesterday ( 656 in EU = 650 in US ), i connected the TV to my AV receiver on HDMI port 1.

I've been playing a lot of colin mcrae dirt on my 360 lately, and i was becoming quite good at it too. Yesterday i played for 15 minutes or so and it was quite obvious that i sucked :) I think this is because of the input lag ( measurements on HDMI port1 have shown 60ms lag )

Gaming mode is indeed not an option because it really does horrible things to the image quality ( so much that i wonder why they bothered to include it ).

I'm now going to try connecting to HDMI2 and renaming the port to "PC", this should reduce lag to 30/40ms. If i don't forget, i'll post my findings within a couple of days (or feel free to pm me if i forgot)

After using the 40" 656/650 almost a month now, i ended up using a VGA cable: i felt the HDMI2/PC solution didn't do that much for me, while the difference was quite noticable when using VGA.

I tested this using colin mcrae dirt : a game that i played so much on my crt tv that i became quite good at it, but when using hdmi or even hdmi2/pc, i sucked. VGA really fixed this. And you should not worry about image quality over VGA, its flawless!

In game mode? I guess the figures quoted on shoryuken.com weren't accurate.

Yes, i tried a bunch of settings. All @1080p with a dvi-to-hdmi cable.

Funny thing (from shoryuken):

"Frame Conversion:

1 frame is approximately 17 milliseconds.
Ideal (unnoticeable) delay for fighting or rhythm games is 8 milliseconds or less, or 1/2 of a frame.

Acceptable (playable) delay is 9 to 34 milliseconds, or 1/2 of a frame to 2 frames. Note that while gameplay will still be affected by a delay of 2 frames, most people will still have a difficult time noticing the difference immediately.

Unacceptable (unplayable) delay is over 34 milliseconds, or anything higher than 2 frames. Typically, this is a point when timing-sensitive gamers will even feel a delay at the menu screen or with the cursor when selecting a character."

Typically, this is a point when timing-sensitive gamers will even feel a delay at the menu screen or with the cursor when selecting a character."

I bet the analog controllers mask the delay for a lot of people. For example, in the menu you push the stick and nothing will happen till you hit the trip point. There is a real delay from when you start pushing the stick till you're at the 50% trip mark. So when you add another 30ms to that, it will feel like you just didn't hit the trip point till then. On the digital pad you know exactly when it hits the trip point (when you hit the button) and it will be more noticeable.

I bet this happens in gameplay too. I guess it's a good thing consoles switched to analog control when they did, or more people would be pissed about lag. I think this is kind of interesting.

Has anyone tried testing the lag of the current (ninth gen) Pioneer Kuro sets using Rock Band 2 and the automatic calibration with the rev. 2 Fender guitar? Many posts on this site say that turning Game Control Pref on results in "zero" lag.

I tested my PDP-5020FD with Rock Band 2 and got ~60 milliseconds of lag with Game Control off, and ~48ms with Game Control on.

Anyone else test this?

Has anyone tried testing the lag of the current (ninth gen) Pioneer Kuro sets using Rock Band 2 and the automatic calibration with the rev. 2 Fender guitar? Many posts on this site say that turning Game Control Pref on results in "zero" lag.

I tested my PDP-5020FD with Rock Band 2 and got ~60 milliseconds of lag with Game Control off, and ~48ms with Game Control on.

Anyone else test this?

I got the same plasma. With always Game Preference ON, I got initially 51ms. I turned-off the overscan feature in the game and switched from dot-by-dot to auto and got 22ms and 31ms :D.
I wish I knew somebody with the new Fender, I got only the old one and all the GH ones :o.

I got the same plasma. With always Game Preference ON, I got initially 51ms. I turned-off the overscan feature in the game and switched from dot-by-dot to auto and got 22ms and 31ms :D.
I wish I knew somebody with the new Fender, I got only the old one and all the GH ones :o.

Tried all that, still getting 47-48ms lag according to the RB2 auto-calibration.

I've looked through this thread and I haven't seen anything discussing the KDL-52XBR6. I am looking at purchasing this TV but I wanted to know if anybody's had experience with gaming (lag) on it? I play SF IV alot so I want to make sure that I am getting the right TV. Thanks for any help.

noob question - what effect does routing your console through an AV receiver have on lag?

noob question - what effect does routing your console through an AV receiver have on lag?

It depends on the receiver, and on whether or not the receiver upconverts or is just acting as a pass-through (upconverting generally will take longer). I'd recommend posting your model here (or in the receiver forum) as well as if you are planning to use upconversion so that any in the same situation can provide feedback.

I'm still researching, I haven't bought anything yet :D Now that you said that I realize the result would be very specific to the receiver/display combination so it's really a moot point.

But for the record, what I should've asked was:
Since the lag comes from the TV scaling the signal to its own native resolution, if that duty is relegated to the receiver do things tend to be faster or slower? Once the receiver does the upconvert the TV wouldn't do any additional processing, right? Either the receiver's a pass-through and the TV does the work, or the receiver does the work and the TV just displays what it gets.

Since the lag comes from the TV scaling the signal to its own native resolution...

Video lag is not caused by the TV scaling the image to 1080p.

Also, FlatpanelsHD has developed a small app. to test for input lag.

It can be found here: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.php?subaction=showfull&id=1229335064

Video lag is not caused by the TV scaling the image to 1080p.

But it does add to it.

This still alive? If anyone still cares I've got some latency test results from about 5 different newer HDTVs. I posted some info on the model specific threads, but haven't received much interest.....

This still alive? If anyone still cares I've got some latency test results from about 5 different newer HDTVs. I posted some info on the model specific threads, but haven't received much interest.....

I am always interested in this stuff. Not because I am buying a new TV anytime soon but because I want to see if any progress is being made on this front.

I am always interested in this stuff. Not because I am buying a new TV anytime soon but because I want to see if any progress is being made on this front.

Rock. I'm too busy @ work right now to compile the info into a digestible format. I'll do so ASAP.

I'm not sure about the accuracy of the RB2 guitar. I get a different result every time, varying from mid 20's to high 40's when measuring my panasonic z85u via hdmi. I manually set it to 5ms for best results for me.

For audio, I use av out and the test says -3ms!?!. Does it travel back in time?

I'm not sure about the accuracy of the RB2 guitar. I get a different result every time, varying from mid 20's to high 40's when measuring my panasonic z85u via hdmi. I manually set it to 5ms for best results for me.

For audio, I use av out and the test says -3ms!?!. Does it travel back in time?

That's odd, I can do the test over and over again and have it be +/- 2ms. I also verified the accuracy of the results by running the stopwatch app on my display, and the results are concurrent.

As for the audio, I'm in the same boat with you; when I set it to stereo I get -2ms. I was talking with some folks on the RB forum, and the consensus seems that there is about 5-10ms of assumed lag that the game puts into the audio for an "average" stereo setup that isn't calibrated. Some of the developer's comments on old patches seem to back up this assumption.

:):)This still alive? If anyone still cares I've got some latency test results from about 5 different newer HDTVs. I posted some info on the model specific threads, but haven't received much interest.....

can you put a short breakdown on findings on them useing hdmi// im looking for a new tv and :mad:low lag is first :mad:then price:D

:):)

can you put a short breakdown on findings on them useing hdmi// im looking for a new tv and :mad:low lag is first :mad:then price:D

Bah! I still haven't had time to break down the pictures into digestible data, but I know how frustrating it is not having info. Here is some quick info I was able to ascertain.

Forward: All tests @ 720p unless noted. My laptop display clone won't allow me to go up to 1080p. Gaming mode differential not tested, as the initial results showed no difference with "game mode" on any TV. This doesn't mean that that's always the case however, I DQ'ed it after only 3 sets.

Testing methodology: Unless otherwise noted, used a HP Laptop with HDMI output to clone the display and use the flatpanels.dk testing app. Calibrated the laptop display vs. a 17" CRT over 12 runs to have a inherent latency of 19.2ms. Differential of laptop screen vs. display was then recorded, and 20ms of latency added to account for laptop lag.

Results:
Pioneer Elite 60" PRO-151FD:
67ms,51ms,67ms,67ms,67ms,51ms,unreadable

Samsung 58" PN58A760
114ms,114ms,113ms,

LG 60" 60PG60 plasma (terrible image quality)
67ms,83ms,83ms,83ms

Panasonic TH-58PZ800U and TH-58PZ850U (I tested these both very thoroughly; I own the 800U now)
32 ms (averaged from about 50 samples)

Sharp 60" LCD LC-65SE94U
61ms, 51ms, 66ms

There were more results from the sharp LCD but they were impossible to read due to image retention. More data to follow.

Bah! I still haven't had time to break down the pictures into digestible data, but I know how frustrating it is not having info. Here is some quick info I was able to ascertain.

Forward: All tests @ 720p unless noted. My laptop display clone won't allow me to go up to 1080p. Gaming mode differential not tested, as the initial results showed no difference with "game mode" on any TV. This doesn't mean that that's always the case however, I DQ'ed it after only 3 sets.

Testing methodology: Unless otherwise noted, used a HP Laptop with HDMI output to clone the display and use the flatpanels.dk testing app. Calibrated the laptop display vs. a 17" CRT over 12 runs to have a inherent latency of 19.2ms. Differential of laptop screen vs. display was then recorded, and 20ms of latency added to account for laptop lag.

Results:
Pioneer Elite 60" PRO-151FD:
67ms,51ms,67ms,67ms,67ms,51ms,unreadable

Samsung 58" PN58A760
114ms,114ms,113ms,

LG 60" 60PG60 plasma (terrible image quality)
67ms,83ms,83ms,83ms

Panasonic TH-58PZ800U and TH-58PZ850U (I tested these both very thoroughly; I own the 800U now)
32 ms (averaged from about 50 samples)

Sharp 60" LCD LC-65SE94U
61ms, 51ms, 66ms

There were more results from the sharp LCD but they were impossible to read due to image retention. More data to follow.

:):)thank you for the time that you have put in testing..im a big gamer and notice lag right away..:o i blam lag for my lack of skill sometimes...lol:Dand my internet is ghey sometimes also...i have an elite /hdmi and need to update my tv from a 65"widescreen to a 1080p model but i hate lag so i guess i m still waiting for better tvs......

Bah! I still haven't had time to break down the pictures into digestible data, but I know how frustrating it is not having info. Here is some quick info I was able to ascertain.

Forward: All tests @ 720p unless noted. My laptop display clone won't allow me to go up to 1080p. Gaming mode differential not tested, as the initial results showed no difference with "game mode" on any TV. This doesn't mean that that's always the case however, I DQ'ed it after only 3 sets.

Testing methodology: Unless otherwise noted, used a HP Laptop with HDMI output to clone the display and use the flatpanels.dk testing app. Calibrated the laptop display vs. a 17" CRT over 12 runs to have a inherent latency of 19.2ms. Differential of laptop screen vs. display was then recorded, and 20ms of latency added to account for laptop lag.

Results:
Pioneer Elite 60" PRO-151FD:
67ms,51ms,67ms,67ms,67ms,51ms,unreadable

Samsung 58" PN58A760
114ms,114ms,113ms,

LG 60" 60PG60 plasma (terrible image quality)
67ms,83ms,83ms,83ms

Panasonic TH-58PZ800U and TH-58PZ850U (I tested these both very thoroughly; I own the 800U now)
32 ms (averaged from about 50 samples)

Sharp 60" LCD LC-65SE94U
61ms, 51ms, 66ms

There were more results from the sharp LCD but they were impossible to read due to image retention. More data to follow.

Your results are higher than other I have read about. Anyway your data about the top-level Panasonic is very interesting. I wonder if the new gen is even better in input-lag than the older one.

Wondering if someone could help me out....

I am gonna buy a new TV this weekend but I am stuck on which ones to buy. Ultimately since I play ps3 alot, it comes down to which TV has the lag.

Sony 52xbr6 or samsung 52 a750

I have a question for you experts. I purchased a samsung UN55B7100. I am discovering that it does have lag, even with game mode on (did the rock band 2 test and got 110ms with game mode off and ~40 ms with game mode on). I was wondering if there are any setting changes in my ps3 or tv I could make to improve this. For example, street fighter IV is 720P. Is there anyway I can force the machine and tv to display in this resolution without trying to upscale to 1080? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

I have a question for you experts. I purchased a samsung UN55B7100. I am discovering that it does have lag, even with game mode on (did the rock band 2 test and got 110ms with game mode off and ~40 ms with game mode on). I was wondering if there are any setting changes in my ps3 or tv I could make to improve this. For example, street fighter IV is 720P. Is there anyway I can force the machine and tv to display in this resolution without trying to upscale to 1080? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

It's not possible if you have a 1080p HDTV, because each flat-panel has to display everything in its native resolution, so upscale or downscale the image.

I'm gonna buy the DVDO Edge soon, so I'll minimize the input-lag that is in every modern HDTV.

I have a question for you experts. I purchased a samsung UN55B7100. I am discovering that it does have lag, even with game mode on (did the rock band 2 test and got 110ms with game mode off and ~40 ms with game mode on). I was wondering if there are any setting changes in my ps3 or tv I could make to improve this. For example, street fighter IV is 720P. Is there anyway I can force the machine and tv to display in this resolution without trying to upscale to 1080? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Nice TV! :cool:

Your lag sounds in line with most modern HDTVs.

Game mode has pretty much undetectable lag to most mere mortals. However, there's hyper-sensitive Street Fighter players that can detect a frame or two of lag and it would drive them crazy -- in the same way a slightly sped up or down song will drive a musician with perfect pitch insane. Good thing most musicians don't have perfect pitch, and I'm personally glad I can't detect lag at the single frame-level.

btw, Rock Band 2 isn't the best calibration method because the game has built-in lag and compensates for it. Try testing the lag on Guitar Hero: World Tour demo and you should see numbers closer to ~0ms in game mode. Oh, and make sure Dolby Digital is off in Rock Band... that adds some lag too.

Forward: All tests @ 720p unless noted. My laptop display clone won't allow me to go up to 1080p. Gaming mode differential not tested, as the initial results showed no difference with "game mode" on any TV. This doesn't mean that that's always the case however, I DQ'ed it after only 3 sets.

Results:
Pioneer Elite 60" PRO-151FD:
67ms,51ms,67ms,67ms,67ms,51ms,unreadable

Samsung 58" PN58A760
114ms,114ms,113ms,

LG 60" 60PG60 plasma (terrible image quality)
67ms,83ms,83ms,83ms

Panasonic TH-58PZ800U and TH-58PZ850U (I tested these both very thoroughly; I own the 800U now)
32 ms (averaged from about 50 samples)

Sharp 60" LCD LC-65SE94U
61ms, 51ms, 66ms

There were more results from the sharp LCD but they were impossible to read due to image retention. More data to follow.



The terrible picture quality might be that 720P isn't its native resolution, wonder if it would look way better at 1080P, and also running 720P on these 1080P models might also involve some lag just in scaling, probably not much, but some. Also makes you wonder if game mode on Samsung would of helped it. LG have a game mode?

I am currently using the VGA input to feed my xbox to my KURO. However the VGA does not have many options in the settings menu compaired to the other input types such as HDMI. One of the things I am a bit concerned about is that it does not have a "game mode" when using the VGA input. Does anyone know if VGA on the KURO by default has less of a latency then some of the other input types?

I have not had a chance to check it myself but I do have Guitar Hero 3 and if that has a lag test I can check it with that.

I am currently using the VGA input to feed my xbox to my KURO. However the VGA does not have many options in the settings menu compaired to the other input types such as HDMI. One of the things I am a bit concerned about is that it does not have a "game mode" when using the VGA input. Does anyone know if VGA on the KURO by default has less of a latency then some of the other input types?

I have not had a chance to check it myself but I do have Guitar Hero 3 and if that has a lag test I can check it with that.

I just checked my Kuro 5020 using HDMI and I was amazed by the results . I used the Guitar Hero World Tour calibration test. I got 0ms two times and 2ms the third time :eek: . I even tried with and without Dolby Digital on from the option menu and it didn't change the results.
My best results in Rock Band 2 were around 20-30ms. I also tried a few minute of Dance Dance Revolution Universe and I easily got perfect evaluations. DDR is useful, because it rates each individual steps from I think bad to perfect, so you can see when you nail a step perfectly.

So, I guess I'm not gonna buy the DVDO Edge after all :D.

I just checked my Kuro 5020 using HDMI and I was amazed by the results . I used the Guitar Hero World Tour calibration test. I got 0ms two times and 2ms the third time :eek: . I even tried with and without Dolby Digital on from the option menu and it didn't change the results.
My best results in Rock Band 2 were around 20-30ms. I also tried a few minute of Dance Dance Revolution Universe and I easily got perfect evaluations. DDR is useful, because it rates each individual steps from I think bad to perfect, so you can see when you nail a step perfectly.

So, I guess I'm not gonna buy the DVDO Edge after all :D.

Is this with the game mode feature on or off?

Is this with the game mode feature on or off?

On. I forgot to try without it.

Yes, i tried a bunch of settings. All @1080p with a dvi-to-hdmi cable.

Funny thing (from shoryuken):

"Frame Conversion:

1 frame is approximately 17 milliseconds.
Ideal (unnoticeable) delay for fighting or rhythm games is 8 milliseconds or less, or 1/2 of a frame.

Acceptable (playable) delay is 9 to 34 milliseconds, or 1/2 of a frame to 2 frames. Note that while gameplay will still be affected by a delay of 2 frames, most people will still have a difficult time noticing the difference immediately.

Unacceptable (unplayable) delay is over 34 milliseconds, or anything higher than 2 frames. Typically, this is a point when timing-sensitive gamers will even feel a delay at the menu screen or with the cursor when selecting a character."

Actually it is more than 33millisecond. The delay is also experienced from the wireless controller along with the internet & the delay that come with teh wireless network connection, not to mention that the game itself may have some slight delay such as V-sync & frames buffering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eocODP04UBQ

Actually it is more than 33millisecond. The delay is also experienced from the wireless controller along with the internet & the delay that come with teh wireless network connection, not to mention that the game itself may have some slight delay such as V-sync & frames buffering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eocODP04UBQ

I don't agree with that test that you linked to. As soon as you involve human input, the results are instantly flawed (inaccurate).

If you really want to test controller lag, you've got to do it completely automatically.

That said, is there any actual consensus on wireless controller lag? I've never heard of it being an issue before.

Im curious how a dvdo edge would cut down on lag? The best results I get and assume you can get is by having the player outputting your native resolution.

Unless your implying the edge can scale quicker then a 360 internally. Or even PS3 games that support it.

So It seems like Sharp and Panasonic do some good to gamers with there game modes.

I think i might get the SHARP AQUOS 40E77U i saw someone on here who tested it and said it had less than a frame of lag on 1080p game mode

I don't agree with that test that you linked to. As soon as you involve human input, the results are instantly flawed (inaccurate).

If you really want to test controller lag, you've got to do it completely automatically.

That said, is there any actual consensus on wireless controller lag? I've never heard of it being an issue before.

It help indeed, especially when you view it at 5% speed at 60fps. I even did various moves to show that I get similar result thoroughly.

How is gaming lag on the Samsung B750?

I'm not trying To belittle any of the extensive testing you guys are doing because we all have our own thing. I can just say that in my gaming experience the online servers usually are much more annoying than any display. Granted not everyone plays online but I find this to be the worst culprit. I have been gaming for a long time and even in this HD age I have never noticed any type of lag. Maybe I am not sensitive to it and I admit after all the topics I always read I was a bit concerned. I game on my Kuro 151 and I never even use game mode and have never had a problem at all.

I actually feel bad for the people that do experience this or are sensitive to it as I can see how it would be bothersome. I'm just glad I don't notice it. Gaming on my 60 inch Elite Kuro has been absolute heaven coming from a 27 inch off brand SD.

What is the best mode to use on a Sharp 52D64U? Does game or pc mode actually help reduce lag? Any other menu settings that will help as well, such as fine image, etc?

Looking for best settings/mode for use with PC and 360 both over HDMI at 1080P.

I'm not trying To belittle any of the extensive testing you guys are doing because we all have our own thing. I can just say that in my gaming experience the online servers usually are much more annoying than any display. Granted not everyone plays online but I find this to be the worst culprit. I have been gaming for a long time and even in this HD age I have never noticed any type of lag. Maybe I am not sensitive to it and I admit after all the topics I always read I was a bit concerned. I game on my Kuro 151 and I never even use game mode and have never had a problem at all.

I actually feel bad for the people that do experience this or are sensitive to it as I can see how it would be bothersome. I'm just glad I don't notice it. Gaming on my 60 inch Elite Kuro has been absolute heaven coming from a 27 inch off brand SD.

You can just add the input lag to whatever your server problems are. It is cumulative and completely relevant. If it doesn't bug you more power to ya.

I'm not trying To belittle any of the extensive testing you guys are doing because we all have our own thing. I can just say that in my gaming experience the online servers usually are much more annoying than any display. Granted not everyone plays online but I find this to be the worst culprit. I have been gaming for a long time and even in this HD age I have never noticed any type of lag. Maybe I am not sensitive to it and I admit after all the topics I always read I was a bit concerned. I game on my Kuro 151 and I never even use game mode and have never had a problem at all. .

I play SF4 online every night... and yes input lag does come into effect. When I turned on game mode I instantly noticed I was better at reaction, I could "tech" throws better, etc. Keep in mind this was after happily playing 360/PS3 on this TV withOUT game mode for over a year. Cod4, Halo 3, etc.

It's still not perfect. Online lag does effect the game more. SF4's netcode sucks balls. Every time I see someone throw *through* my lightning kicks I want to scream. I just wish there was an arcade nearby so I could play SF4 and be done with this crap.

When playing games on my sony kdl46z4100 with a ps3 and hdmi cable,should motion enhancer and cinemotion be on or off??

When playing games on my sony kdl46z4100 with a ps3 and hdmi cable,should motion enhancer and cinemotion be on or off??

Off. To reduce lag, turn off as much processing as possible.

Hi, i want to know what would be the better set up for this system. Samsung 32" LCD, PS3, and a Denon 3808CI AVR all conected via HDMI. I love to play Guitar Hero, Resident evil, Gran Turismo. Any help is welcome.

Ive heard great things about the D64U Sharp Aquos. Anyone done any lag tests for D65U Sharp Aquos (im looking at the 46")? Are they about the same as the D64U? Or for that fact anyone done lag tests on the D85U? I could spend 100$ more for the D85U 120Hz display and 10bit panel vs. the D65U, but Im most worried about delay for gaming (the 120Hz gonna be a problem or can you adjust it to 60 Hz for gaming?). Thanks.

Ive heard great things about the D64U Sharp Aquos. Anyone done any lag tests for D65U Sharp Aquos (im looking at the 46")? Are they about the same as the D64U? Or for that fact anyone done lag tests on the D85U? I could spend 100$ more for the D85U 120Hz display and 10bit panel vs. the D65U, but Im most worried about delay for gaming (the 120Hz gonna be a problem or can you adjust it to 60 Hz for gaming?). Thanks.

I'm also looking at the D65U 46", need an answer...

Can anyone let us know if calibration fixes the lag problem?

I'm not sure if you are talking about in-game or display calibration:

-in-game calibration (available in the Rock Band or Guitar Hero games' menus, for example) will compensate for lag. This won't fix lag, but it adjust the software so the games are playable.

-display calibration adjusts picture quality and doesn't do anything for lag AFAIK.

So my lamp recently went out on my set, Sony KDS60A2020 (1080p SXRD), and while I was waiting for the new one to come, I hooked the 360 back up to the old Zenith 27" that I have upstairs. I think it was the first time I've turned that set on in years. Anyway, continued playing etc, and then the new lamp came.

Got that all set up, brought the 360 back down, and fired up Halo 3. Much to my dismay, I noticed a severe lag that I for whatever reason never noticed before. Maybe because I had always played on the big tv from day 1, and the lack of lag on the tube set made it now noticeable, I don't know. Anyway, if I push the thumbstick quickly to look right, left, whichever, there is a very bad delay until my view on the screen turns the corresponding direction. Quick aiming movements are now almost impossible because of the delay. I took the 360 back upstairs, fired it up, and nothing. I get immediate response.

Is there anything I can do to fix this? I have it hooked via HDMI, resolution set to 1080p on the 360. I really want to go back to playing on the big tv, but with this lag now I just can't do it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

So i'm still confused after reading most of this tread and countless other forums.
The first post says not to worry if you have HD game on say a PS3.

Well thats fine but my display (samsung 40" M86") is 1080p native resolution over HDMI and most games are 720p. This is a problem on PS3 since I cannot force games (SFIV) to be displayed @ 1080p. I don´t have any way of testing actually input lag times but would like to hear if anyone know how long they are with "game mode" on?

Number for the Panasonic TC-P46G15

1080P Standard mode
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/1080P2-1.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/1080P-1.jpg

1080P game mode
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/1080pgame2-1.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/1080pgame-1.jpg

480i Standard mode
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/480i2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/480i3.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/480i.jpg

480i game mode
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/480igame2-1.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/480igame3-1.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/480igame-1.jpg


THE KING-->Panasonic TC-32LZ800<--THE KING

1080P standard
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/1080p.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/1080p2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/1080p3.jpg

1080P game mode
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/1080pgame2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/1080pgame3.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/1080pgame.jpg

480i
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/480igame2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/480igame3.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/111lika111/480igame.jpg

Excellent work for the community Mr Deap! I wish someone could find a lag-free HDTV like the king you found, and which would also be stereo 3d ready for Nvidia 3d vision, that would rock my world !

I have a Samsung PN50B650 and Game Mode is the playable factor for me. With Game Mode off there's clear noticeable lag and I'm having to hit buttons earlier than normal. I hate this so much, because I can't keep my proper calibration with Game Mode on.

I have a LG 55LH55 55" LCD TV and I am having the latency problem. I tried to fix it by setting it to game mode, syncing the resolution of the 360 with the native resolution of the TV (1080p), and I tried swapping the HDMI cables (the one I was using previously was 35 feet, I swapped it with the shorter 5 foot cable, and nothing has worked. The problem isn't to do with the sound, it's the milliseconds lag between when you hit a button and the action on screen. I would like to get this fixed as soon as possible. What should I do? Does anyone else have the LG TVs who knows how to fix it?

edit - Oh beautiful, post 666. If that's not bad luck I don't know what is.. -_-

are there any results of that panny 32' in PC mode 1080p??

I recently purchased a Samsung LN52A650 and have unfortunately been experiencing a lag. Testing my TV with Rockband 2 I had a lag of approx. 70ms with the game mode off. That number improved to approx. 35ms once I turned the game mode on. I have gone back to playing on my old Mitsubishi rear projection TV that has no lag, but I want to be able to play on this new TV. I haven't actually tried playing again with the game mode turned on, but I feel more comfortable playing on my old TV knowing that it has no lag whatsoever. My question is: Would it be worth it to buy that DVDO Edge or will that not help my issue?

Just turn on the Game Mode and be done with it. 35ms is fine.

Thanks for the posting, It is really helpful to me.
Your post is very interesting and I teach something new over here. Nice information.
My heartiest thanks for sharing.

Is there a clear answer on if the size matters lag-wise? I want a 65V10, but don't want to negate the low lag because I got the largest available.

Is there a clear answer on if the size matters lag-wise? I want a 65V10, but don't want to negate the low lag because I got the largest available.



:)well i game alot and looks like the newest tvs have game mode and i dont notice any lag when that is on .i game 4-8 hrs a day :confused::eek: so i would like to think that i know what im talking about.i have an 09 samy plasma with no problem:D

Hi,
I was wondering if someone could give me some advice.
I'm looking to buy a 32" HDTV with the purpose of connecting my Wii and Laptop to it in the first place, other consoles, media center and TV will propably follow later on.
I'm quite worried about this input lag. Even though it's ' just 32" ', it would still be a waste of money to end up with a TV that annoys you half of the time. Anyway, if anyone would be able to give some advice on the following candidates (or suggest another one, I'm from Belgium):
Panasonic TX-L32G10E (anyone know the difference with the TX-L32G10?)
LG 32LH3000
Sharp LC-32LE600E
Panasonic TX-L32S10E
samsung LE32B554 (may also be 550 or 551)
Samsung U32B6000
Sony KDL32V5500

Generally, I like the image of the samsungs and Sharp most, but if they suck in input lag, they're out of the picture...
Any input is appreciated.

Edit:I am now actually considering buying at redcoon.be

Hi,
I was wondering if someone could give me some advice.
I'm looking to buy a 32" HDTV with the purpose of connecting my Wii and Laptop to it in the first place, other consoles, media center and TV will propably follow later on.
I'm quite worried about this input lag. Even though it's ' just 32" ', it would still be a waste of money to end up with a TV that annoys you half of the time. Anyway, if anyone would be able to give some advice on the following candidates (or suggest another one, I'm from Belgium):
Panasonic TX-L32G10E (anyone know the difference with the TX-L32G10?)
LG 32LH3000
Sharp LC-32LE600E
Panasonic TX-L32S10E
samsung LE32B554 (may also be 550 or 551)
Samsung U32B6000
Sony KDL32V5500

Generally, I like the image of the samsungs and Sharp most, but if they suck in input lag, they're out of the picture...
Any input is appreciated.

Edit:I am now actually considering buying at redcoon.be




well i have played with my 32 sammy lcd toc :cool:and its only a 60htz.:mad:it does have game mode and dont notice any real lag but the screen blurs bad when you move left and right really fast ..wish it was a 120htz to help with that.......and i think that for gaming pans. imput speed seems to be a hair faster than sammy but my 600htz plazma sammy(almost no blur when moving fast) is very nice to game on and the price has droped on plazmas so its not that much more to get a way better tv..but thats my 2cents:)

Angel - Both my brand-new 32" Panasonic LCD in the bedroom, and my year-old 50" Panasonic plasma in the living room report a 32ms lag from the Rock Band 2 auto-calibrating guitar, no special "game mode" or anything required. It doesn't get much better than that for HD lag. Looking at Millner's post from November, the current Samsung's give you about 70ms without any special modes, and 35ms with "game mode" on. This is also just fine, in game mode. :)

As for your selection of TVs? I wouldn't buy the LG or Sharp, as you may as well just buy a Vizio/Insignia/Dynex that does the same thing, is made by the same people, and is cheaper. I also wouldn't buy the Sony, as a Sony TV is always roughly equivalent to a Panasonic or a Samsung, just costs more.

There, now decide which one you like the features of more, between Panasonic and Samsung. :)

So hello,

i found this thread during my research for buying the right HDTV for me.

Just last week i get in touch with "input lag" via hdtvtest.co.uk. I read some about it, and beside that there is for every TV at lest one user who does feel a big bad lag and another who can swear he definitly does not have any, and beside that i learned that the mostly used method to measure the lag (photo-stopcounter-method) is not that accurate as i hoped and there are some other affecting factors that are not TV-originate (i.e. a lag between VGA and DVI output signal at the graphiccard from 0 - 17 ms) i read HERE right at the beginning (i didnt read all the posts till today) using a PC on a HDTV will normaly cause no input lag.

So when this thread was started it was 2005. How is about that today and in general? Is there no input lag if HDTV gets HD signals?

I thought this would have to do with postprocessing AND interlacing.

Another question i have: as far s i remember a "HD-like" resolution that Graphiccards deliver is 1920x1200 or so, at least tomshardware uses this resolution for benchmarks. Input lag shall not be a problem (according to threadstart) if HDTV becomes signals at native resolution. This is 1920x1080. So that is =! 1920x1200. So might that be an input lag problem aswell (maybe for downgrading the picture or however)?

Thanks for answers,

DemolitionDoener

So hello,


So when this thread was started it was 2005. How is about that today and in general? Is there no input lag if HDTV gets HD signals?




Input lag still exists, even if the signal being sent is in the native resolution of the TV. Post processing effects such as 120/240Hz take processing time, thus adding to the input lag overall. Turning these features off (or game mode for many TV's) will generally negate most input lag to the point where you cannot notice it anymore.

I have heard that Sharp Aquos TVs are really, really good for this - much better than current Samsungs. I don't know where it is here on AVS (I stumbled into it from Google) but a guy ran a few tests saying his Aquos was running at less than a frame of lag (which would be somewhere between 0 and 32ms). So I think an Aquos will be my next TV, unless they change priorities.

Just make sure that the TV has Vyper Drive Game mode - I think there are a few Aquos' that don't have it...check on Sharp's site before you buy just to be sure!

:)well i game alot and looks like the newest tvs have game mode and i dont notice any lag when that is on .i game 4-8 hrs a day :confused::eek: so i would like to think that i know what im talking about.i have an 09 samy plasma with no problem:D

How does your samsung plasma handle the HUD after 4 hr sessions of gaming (e.g. ghost image/burn in)? I'm looking at moving to a 63 samsung plasma, but have not been able to see any real reports regarding extended gaming sessions.

Eidt - went to a couple of other sites, seems to be a non issue, so I might take the plunge...

How does your samsung plasma handle the HUD after 4 hr sessions of gaming (e.g. ghost image/burn in)? I'm looking at moving to a 63 samsung plasma, but have not been able to see any real reports regarding extended gaming sessions.

Eidt - went to a couple of other sites, seems to be a non issue, so I might take the plunge...

well i have played on an older plasma and after 3-4hrs the image was still there after you turn the set off for about 30 min.:eek:.felt like 3 hrs:D..but i have an 09 sammy plazma 720p (the new plazmas let you set the pixels to wobble to help stop burnin) i have not noticed any thing yet ,but like you i was scared:eek: and i still am.i have the contrast down as low as i can put up with and so for so good..just a note if you go bigger than a 42in plasma i would go with a 1080p for pic :cool:wish i did but i did save alot of money


=======well i just played mw2(shooter)i played on my 65"old crt and then my 09 sammy plasma with gamemode on and there is some/very little lag on the plasma. it took about 3 hours to get use to the plasma, but yes there is alittle lag

Game Mode Decrease visuals Guality,,, Do you really want that?

"Game Mode Decrease visuals Guality,,, Do you really want that?"

Another way to look at it is that Game Mode, and shutting off image processing in general, is doing the least amount of damage to the image that is coming in from your 360/PS3/Bluray. The less processing, the truer the image is the the source, the truer it is to the artist's intention. I don't know about you, but I want to see the intended image, not my display's processed, rough approximation of the image.

"Game Mode Decrease visuals Guality,,, Do you really want that?"

Another way to look at it is that Game Mode, and shutting off image processing in general, is doing the least amount of damage to the image that is coming in from your 360/PS3/Bluray. The less processing, the truer the image is the the source, the truer it is to the artist's intention. I don't know about you, but I want to see the intended image, not my display's processed, rough approximation of the image.

Depends on the TV. On my Samsung it's pure crap and most certainly does not disable all of the video processing.

Depends on the TV. On my Samsung it's pure crap and most certainly does not disable all of the video processing.

Hmmm... I guess it does depend on the TV -- on my Samsung it looks great, and disables much of the video processing.

Hey Guys,

There are so many posts on this but I haven't found a definitive answer yet to my question.

Unfortunately, I have a Sammy 46" 630B LCD and I experience game lag. Game mode feels great but looks choppy so I am trying to get rid of it.

I mainly want to get rid of it for MW2 on my PS3. That is output in 1080p so the sammy should be able to process it easily. I still have to run game mode.

If I buy an expensive stereo receiver that upconverts the image, will it reduce game lag because the sammy will not have to process it as much? Will game mode look better?

To be honest, i don't know if it is worth it to buy the big up conversion receivers. Especially if it won't help me. I have seen 1 or 2 posts about people buying top of the line Onkyo's with upconversion that supposedly reduced game lag from a 1080p signal but that could be just their perception after buying a super expensive unit.

I have been looking at these receivers -

Pioneer VSX-1019AH-K
Pioneer VSX-919ah-k
Sony STR-DG920
Denon AVR-1910 (black)
Denon AVR-1709
sony str dg1000

Thanks guys, hopefully someone has an answer.

~John

In short - No.

A receiver will not help you out. Feeding your display a clean 1080p signal is the best you can do for it, and doing any sort of 1080p-to-1080p conversion outside of the display is only going to do nothing at best, and more than likely just add further lag.

What you want to do is investigate why Game Mode looks bad on your display. My first guess would be that things like Sharpness and Color are cranked up far too high, adding in noise that shouldn't be there and creating a comically pigmented image. Additionally, any noise filtering should be turned off, as those functions are only going to serve to rub out details found in a cleanly rendered image.

Stick with Game Mode for minimal lag, but work on making Game Mode look better.

Unfortunately, I have a Sammy 46" 630B LCD and I experience game lag. Game mode feels great but looks choppy so I am trying to get rid of it.

The best thing to do with a Samsung is rename the HDMI input PC and send it either a PC or 1080p signal so PC mode activates. (Make sure you also change RGB to Full in the PS3)

The problem is not all PS3 games output in 1080p but sometimes you can untick 720p to force a game into 1080p output.

Thanks guys, you might be saving me a bunch of money here. The main game that I care about it MW2. I think that it is displayed in 1080p, so I won't need to buy something to make it look better with less lag.

I will look into the sammy's settings in game mode / PC mode. I tried the PC mode before but I was unsuccessful.

However, I think I will stick to game mode because I want to be able to easily disable it to watch blue ray movies (the dark knight is my testing movie). You don't get the "WOW" effect w/ game mode (and I am assuming PC mode on).

The game mode on my TV significantly makes the Wii more playable w/ no noticeable loss in effects. The PS3 looks choppier and more pixelated but controlling it feels great. I will try to play with your effects. maybe it will help it, you never know.

Thanks,

John

Just for fun i took pics of my 720p res vs 1080p resolution in MW2. I reset all of my settings back to normal beforehand. Check out my results.


In my opinion, the 720p looks the best for MW2. It was the clearest of them all. The 720p game is better than the 1080p game too. Interesting.

My next puzzle is to tell my PS3 to display MW2 in 720p and blu ray in 1080p. for some reason it goes to 1080p all the time if it can.

Here are a couple of problems

First, MW2 is native 1024x600 so no matter if you choose 720p or 1080p, the game will need to be upscaled anyways and both upscale it by the same proportions.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

Second, your TV LN46B630 (630B = B630 correct?) is 1080p so if the game is upscaled to 720p, then it will need to be upscaled again to 1080p by your TV.

Third & Fourth, you are using a game mode which means the picture quality will be crap and only PC mode gives you good image + good response time, which is why so many samsung owners were tinkering with it. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1110472
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18718314

Here are two pictures I took a while back showing the difference.

...you are using a game mode which means the picture quality will be crap and only PC mode gives you good image

I've tried PC mode and game mode on my LN46A650... between the two, PC mode doesn't look as good to me when playing games, but does have a slightly improved response time.

Game mode looks better (sharper, vibrant) when playing the Xbox360 and PS3, and has a decent enough response time for me. YMMV of course, so each user should try both and see which they prefer.

If I was watching TV (like Lost), I would probably also choose PC mode between the two, but I have another TV for that.

Mine is the Samsung - LN-46B630

That is interesting that the 720 needs to be upscaled 2 times. I did notice, even in game mode, that it seemed like a little more video lag. The picture wasn't as good though. I wonder if the TV tells the PS3 that it prefers 1080p instead of 720p.

I've tried PC mode and game mode on my LN46A650... between the two, PC mode doesn't look as good to me when playing games, but does have a slightly improved response time.

Game mode looks better (sharper, vibrant) when playing the Xbox360 and PS3, and has a decent enough response time for me. YMMV of course, so each user should try both and see which they prefer.

If I was watching TV (like Lost), I would probably also choose PC mode between the two, but I have another TV for that.
That's like saying Sports more is more vibrant and sharper then Cinema mode, and that would be true, but the fact still stands that the PQ is crap, and Game mode is somewhere in between the two settings wise.

A good example is looking at a textured wall, where as it should have small bumps and grooves up close but be overall smooth from a distance, in Game or Sports mode, it looks like someone took 40 grit sandpaper to it.

Obliviously you can view the image however you like but by all videophile standards the image looks awful from the unnecessary video processing, wrong sharpness, way too high color temp, etc

I'm currently looking for a 47 inch tv, that I would mainly use for gaming. I'm currently using an sd crt, so I'm pretty sure I'm sensitive to input lag. Originally I wanted to buy an LG 47LH4000, but I've read some very different input lag results of it, ranging from 20 to 80 ms. As far as I know 100 hz and other features only increase lag, so when you switch to game mode they are automatically switched off, so your left with a blurry picture, which I honestly don't really like.

Therefore I started to look for plasmas, especially Panasonics, because they have a reputation for having the least amount of input lag. Unfortunately the G10/G20 modell, that has the new NEOPDP panel is a bit too expensive for me. I've read a review on www. hdtvtest. com, where they claim that the S20 is also equipped with this new panel, so it would be ideal for me, since it has a beutiful picture, but all panasonic homepages (except the UK site) list the S20 among the NON neopdp models.

I'm quite lost now, I'm really short on useful information regarding input lag, so every help is very appreciated.
Do you guys have any suggestions on specific models, or where I should start looking?

I've read a review on www. hdtvtest. com
Do you guys have any suggestions on specific models, or where I should start looking?

Such a site "hdtvtest.com" doesn't exist. :confused:

I'm in a similar boat as you right now and am also looking for something 30-40ish" for gaming+movies, and judging from many reviews seems like plasma is the way to go in terms of sheer picture quality.

Anyone have feedback over TVs that can just be found at electronic stores (i.e. Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.)? I was scoping out some Samsung and Panasonic plasmas but the models available at local retailers are not listed at all, under "good" or "bad", on any of the earlier links posted (might be cause the first post is quite old).

Been looking at a Panasonic 42" plasma model TC-P42U2 (1080p), and Samsung 42" plasma model PN42C450B1D (720p). Or is it worth it to just get a decent HDTV and just buy a DVDO as mentioned in the first post (seen a price drop on older Anchor Bay models)?

Such a site "hdtvtest.com" doesn't exist. :confused:

I'm in a similar boat as you right now and am also looking for something 30-40ish" for gaming+movies, and judging from many reviews seems like plasma is the way to go in terms of sheer picture quality.

Anyone have feedback over TVs that can just be found at electronic stores (i.e. Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.)? I was scoping out some Samsung and Panasonic plasmas but the models available at local retailers are not listed at all, under "good" or "bad", on any of the earlier links posted (might be cause the first post is quite old).

Been looking at a Panasonic 42" plasma model TC-P42U2 (1080p), and Samsung 42" plasma model PN42C450B1D (720p). Or is it worth it to just get a decent HDTV and just buy a DVDO as mentioned in the first post (seen a price drop on older Anchor Bay models)?

Never buy stuff annouced in the flyer. They always have other models hidden at the store such as the G25 & VT25 or PNC8000 whatever PNB850. They also sell higher end model not annouced in the outside of the flyer.

Flyer = Crappy stuff that shouldn't be sold at all.

Indeed they might be less expensive in the flyer, but also lose their value very fast which isn't worth it.

Hi everyone, someone at Nintendo Age recommended this forum and it seems like you guys really know what you're talking about regarding lag in HDTVs!

Anyway, here's my story. I have a 32" Sharp Aquos HDTV (LC-32GP3U-R) that me and my wife bought on QVC about a year and a half ago. While it's supposed to be a gaming TV, I think they really meant in regards to the newer consoles, not the classic ones. I currently have a top loader NES (composite), SNES/N64/GCN/PS2 (S-video), and Wii (component) hooked up to it.

My question to you guys is how should I have the following settings to ensure that lag is kept down to as minimum as possible (obviously there's no such thing as zero lag)?

OPC (what does this mean?): Set currently to OFF

ACTIVE CONTRAST (adjusts black level and white levels of images): Set currently to OFF
(if set to on, you can adjust the mim and max range)

IMAGE COMPENSATION SETTINGS
Fast (optimized for action videos) <--I think it's on this setting
Slow (optimized for videos with fine detail)

3D-Y/C (what is this???)
(adjusts to optimum picture quality according to picture movement)
Slow
Standard
Fast
Off (2D)<--Current setting

VIEW MODE:
Side Bar <--Obviously on this setting; or will setting it on smart stretch actually lower the lag?
Smart Stretch
Zoom
Stretch

There's also some kind of Game Mode but I'm not sure exactly how to use it correctly. I did find a menu that lets you turn it off/on with each kind of input so I have it set to ON for all inputs that I have my game consoles hooked up to.

Also, when playing my NES, I notice this weird redrawing thing whenever I play Super Mario Bros games (and also where I can most easily notice any lag, especially when trying to punch bricks; other than that, I don't seem to notice any lag at all) every several seconds (I don't know how best to describe it; I THINK this happens on NES emulators on a PC also). It doesn't really affect gameplay but I'd love to eliminate it if I can.

Now in my case, I don't think the lag is all that bad (I've heard plenty of horror stories about how other HDTV's are in that regard and I'm well aware it can be a LOT worse) but still I'm kinda a perfectionist and I want to make sure I'm doing everything I can to ensure the best classic gaming experience possible. And NO, I don't want to get a CRT TV because I don't like how you can't see the entire screen (like you can on a HDTV) and the last two I had the picture was tilted.

One last question; is there anyway at all I can use HDMI for my Wii or PS2? Or is component the best either can do?

Such a site "hdtvtest.com" doesn't exist. :confused:

I'm in a similar boat as you right now and am also looking for something 30-40ish" for gaming+movies, and judging from many reviews seems like plasma is the way to go in terms of sheer picture quality.

Anyone have feedback over TVs that can just be found at electronic stores (i.e. Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.)? I was scoping out some Samsung and Panasonic plasmas but the models available at local retailers are not listed at all, under "good" or "bad", on any of the earlier links posted (might be cause the first post is quite old).

Been looking at a Panasonic 42" plasma model TC-P42U2 (1080p), and Samsung 42" plasma model PN42C450B1D (720p). Or is it worth it to just get a decent HDTV and just buy a DVDO as mentioned in the first post (seen a price drop on older Anchor Bay models)?

Sorry I mistiped it, it's hdtvtest.co.uk.

I bought last week a Panasonic S20 plasma. It's brilliant for gaming, it has about 16 ms lag in game mode, the picture quality is superb, overall, I'm very satisfied with my purchase.

You should consider buying this over the U20, the only difference is that the S20 has 600 hz instead of 400 hz, and looks a bit better in my opinion. The price gap is marginal (something around 20-40 $ depending on the size)

Forget Samsungs, they are widely known for having horrendous amount of input lag.

this site tests lag in lots of new tvs................ http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/

Sorry to bring this thread back into business. But I am curious about which TVs are good fir gaming and if anybody had anything.
I am looking at the Panasonic 42ST30 and the Sony 46HX729. I saw from the website above, that the Sony 40HX723 had a response time/input lag of 31 ms. What's the acceptable response/lag time for PS3 gaming? Is 31 ms too high?

I am a hardcore gamer.

Has anyone tried out the Orei XD-901 for upscaling older game consoles to HDMI 720p or 1080p? I'm curious how well (or not) it works.
They sell them on Amazon.

Sorry to bring this thread back into business. But I am curious about which TVs are good fir gaming and if anybody had anything.
I am looking at the Panasonic 42ST30 and the Sony 46HX729. I saw from the website above, that the Sony 40HX723 had a response time/input lag of 31 ms. What's the acceptable response/lag time for PS3 gaming? Is 31 ms too high?

I am a hardcore gamer.

Every 16 ms of lag equals one frame of lag in a 60 frames-per-second title (like most fighting games for instance). CRTs of old had zero lag. HDTV tech has lag numbers all over the map.

Generally speaking, 20 ms or less in lag is top tier for hardcore gaming if you can't get a set with 0 ms. Many people can get by with 32 ms or less (two frames of lag per 60fps). As you approach three laggy frames and higher, it'll begin to slightly impact your gaming experience in technical titles that require precision. Some sets can have lag rated at 100 ms or more, so keep all of this in mind.

You can mitigate the effect of lag in many modern HDTVs by turning on "Game Mode". It disables the special processing settings in sets so that you get the least lag possible on that particular unit. Depending on the set, the changes could be great or mild, but it'll always be an anti-lag improvement (the visuals may look less impressive however). Also, Plasmas seem to more often have less lag than LCDs, but it isn't always the case.

Here is a website (http://www.dday.it/redazione/220/DDay-The-Best-Gaming-TV-Test.html#pagina-2) that says they've rated the lag in quite a few HDTVs, both in Standard and Game modes. Check it out to get an idea of what is out there.

Sorry to bring this thread back into business. But I am curious about which TVs are good fir gaming and if anybody had anything.
I am looking at the Panasonic 42ST30 and the Sony 46HX729. I saw from the website above, that the Sony 40HX723 had a response time/input lag of 31 ms. What's the acceptable response/lag time for PS3 gaming? Is 31 ms too high?

I am a hardcore gamer.


Generally speaking:

1. Plasmas are better than LCD on lag
2. Stay away from Samsung LCDs
3. Sharp is generally considered to be very good.
4. 31ms is adequate - not too bad not too great. You probably wouldn't notice it unless you're a one-frame-link Street Fighter type of hardcore gamer.

That's what I've picked up in my research. I am thinking of getting a Panasonic plasma next year, only because I play a lot of SF and I think my TV's input lag (it's an old Samsung LCD) is screwing me up a bit.

looking at getting a lg lk520, does anyone know the gaming lag time on this tv?

HIGH DEFINITION MATERIAL DOES NOT LAG ON A HIGH DEFINITION SET 99% OF THE TIME.


What if you have 720p material on a 1080p HDTV (or 1080p material on a 720p HDTV)? I would think there would be lag from the upscaling (or downscaling).

I also wonder about overscan, which all TVs do by default. Even if you have 1080p material on a 1080p HDTV, there will be overscan, so that may incur some lag too.

rglr 720 smallish size.jpg (175.0 KB, 81 views)

The third image, is thd best image, that is all I can say The gun looks blurred in that image but it looks the most clearest. I did not even notice the rainbow lines
until the fourth image.

It is a videogame. They are not meant for the flat pannels no matter what. They are meant for regular televisions. It is a burden that you have to play a videogame on any flat panel screen. Even a computer monitor is a burden. These are meant to be played far away at least six foot away, not two foot.

I could only image you playing the game in a living room type area, or in a bedroom of some sort. If it is in your home teather then you can't change it around, or you have to take the system to a local television store, and test it on every single flat panel. This seems to be the only way. This is the advice I give for people having trouble with image devices.

Also Samsung seems to be bad company in terms of television. I have one I am using as a table, that I have not worked on yet:D

Generally speaking:

1. Plasmas are better than LCD on lag
2. Stay away from Samsung LCDs
3. Sharp is generally considered to be very good.
4. 31ms is adequate - not too bad not too great. You probably wouldn't notice it unless you're a one-frame-link Street Fighter type of hardcore gamer.

That's what I've picked up in my research. I am thinking of getting a Panasonic plasma next year, only because I play a lot of SF and I think my TV's input lag (it's an old Samsung LCD) is screwing me up a bit.


Back in market for higher end LCD or plasma. Very bright room. Why avoid samsungs? Prices on the 55d8000 are really good.

hi i am new here and i cannot.find the input lag for the sony kdl32ex521. anywhere on the internet . so has anybody owned and tested this hdtv for input lag. if so please comment thank u guys very much. ps i am buying this tv next week

I think I've just found a way to eliminate the lag from the tv with no real noticeable difference the image quality. Here is what you do:

On the xbox 360 console display settings, you change the image resolution from whatever it was to 1024x768 and there you go.

I think I've just found a way to eliminate the lag from the tv with no real noticeable difference the image quality. Here is what you do:

On the xbox 360 console display settings, you change the image resolution from whatever it was to 1024x768 and there you go.

This doesn't eliminate lag.

Sorry to bring this thread back into business. But I am curious about which TVs are good fir gaming and if anybody had anything.
I am looking at the Panasonic 42ST30 and the Sony 46HX729. I saw from the website above, that the Sony 40HX723 had a response time/input lag of 31 ms. What's the acceptable response/lag time for PS3 gaming? Is 31 ms too high?

I am a hardcore gamer.

Response time and input lag are not the same. Response time has no affect on gaming lag.