Hi,
I have a phase two box but I would like to not rent and to have more storage but still have dual tuners. Is there a dual tuner HD box out there?

thanks

Where are you located USA? or Canada?

Who is your cable provider?



In the US, the Cable companies normally do not allow / Add self owned DVR cable boxes on / or to there cable systems.

If you were able to talk a cable co. to add your self owned STB, it would have to be compatible with the equipment used at your local head end plant. If they use Motorola DCT-xxxx series STB, then your out of luck, as Motorola does not sell them in the US to non Cable Co./MSO. The ones found on EBAY are normally stolen STB. Now again, I am not sure if SA sells there STB to the public or not.

Now once again, IF you did find a Cable Co. that will add your self owned STB to there system, you would still be stuck with the same features as if you had rented one. When you activate a STB, it downloads all the STB Software, system-Firmware, IPG software, and the cable box settings from your account at the cable co. The Cable Co. controls all the settings.

I have only seen a few DVR w/ Cable Card if you want to go this route. Most of them are single tuner only though.


Now you can also buy a PVR w/ Cable Card, This will allow you to set it up the way you want, with whatever HD space options + a DVD-R ect... But your still stuck with a single tuner in most of them.

Now you can also buy a PVR w/ Cable Card, This will allow you to set it up the way you want, with whatever HD space options + a DVD-R ect... But your still stuck with a single tuner in most of them.


Pardon my small interruption.

Could you name some? I'd be interested in this scenario.

Thanks.

Pardon my small interruption.

Could you name some? I'd be interested in this scenario.

Thanks.

Not off hand. Sorry, I think Sony & Sanyo have 1 or 2 models. but they might not have been QAM compatible for HD recording ...

Even if you can get it, are you sure you want it?? The HDMI output on the 6412/III is so buggy it's not usable for a lot of people, myself included.
The installer is at the house and is installing the 6412 at the moment. I'll test out the HDMI output for a month and see if it's worth it. I'm being charged for the service.

Then I'll cancel the DVR service and see if I can keep the box.

Is the DVI output less buggy than the HDMI output?

The installer is at the house and is installing the 6412 at the moment. I'll test out the HDMI output for a month and see if it's worth it. I'm being charged for the service.

Then I'll cancel the DVR service and see if I can keep the box.

Is the DVI output less buggy than the HDMI output?The phase III doesn't have a DVI output anymore, it was replaced by the HDMI.

Pardon my small interruption.

Could you name some? I'd be interested in this scenario.

Thanks.
I know there are a couple others, but Sony has the DHGHDD250 and DHGHDD500, single tuner, HD capable, with ATSC tuner and cablecard. I almost bought one, but didn't like the mixed reviews.

I know there are a couple others, but Sony has the DHGHDD250 and DHGHDD500, single tuner, HD capable, with ATSC tuner and cablecard. I almost bought one, but didn't like the mixed reviews.

the 500 GB HD sure makes it look good till you find out it can not record HD content.

the 500 GB HD sure makes it look good till you find out it can not record HD content.

Both the Sony DHG 250 & 500 can record HD from either OTA or with it QAM tuner.

Both the Sony DHG 250 & 500 can record HD from either OTA or with it QAM tuner.

ok, my bad. :o

I know there are a couple others, but Sony has the DHGHDD250 and DHGHDD500, single tuner, HD capable, with ATSC tuner and cablecard. I almost bought one, but didn't like the mixed reviews.

Why the dearth of DVRs? Low demand at this time? It's like having to rent a tape recorder from the record company and then only being able to tape in mono...a little exaggerated but where's the supply of product, free enterprise etc?

The phase III doesn't have a DVI output anymore, it was replaced by the HDMI.
well it ended up to be the 3412 - so I could have hdmi issues, but my cables aren't here yet.

i meant that i might get the other box(6200?) with dvi instead.

Does anyone in this thread know if the Moto 6412 Phase III is available from Adelphia cable in Loudoun County, VA?

I recently switched from Dish (due to the 942 fiasco) and was given the 6412 p2...I'd prefer the p3 for HDMI (so I don't have to waste $$$ on a DVI cable or adapter) and improved SD quality. I've called the CSR phone reps, but of course they are no help and won't connect me with the local distro...I'm trying to save myself from a drive out there and the ensuing painful conversation with a disenchanted clerk.

Thanks for the help.

I have Adelhpia around the Cincinnati, OH area, and just received the 6412 Phase III box. At first, I went to the local office to pickup a HD only box as I alredy had an upgraded TIVO box. After a couple of days, I really wanted HD and DVR in one box, so I took down the TIVO. I also had a problem with the HD only box, so I setup a service call with the phone rep and also asked them to have the tech bring out their latest HD/DVR box. The phone rep could not tell me what models my local offices carry and said he did not see any number listed for my local office.

Tech came out yesterday and had the 6412 Phase III box much to my delight. I haven't had the time to really get into it yet, and my only problem so far is that I bought a DVI cable for the HD only box, and of course the phase III is HDMI (easily fixed though).

Unless you can somehow get a local number to your office, I believe you will have to go there yourself to ensure you're getting the box you want.

Why the dearth of DVRs? Low demand at this time? It's like having to rent a tape recorder from the record company and then only being able to tape in mono...a little exaggerated but where's the supply of product, free enterprise etc?Wll said

I recently replaced a couple of Comcast phase 2's with 3's and noticed:

1. About twice a week, large green dots and dashes appear on live and saved programming. Unplugging the box returns everything to normal. Should I exchange for new or is this a common bug?

2. Something similar to studder or frame dropping. Some people have reported this immediately after plugging in a new box and it later disappearing. Any theories as to its cause?

3. Some (but not all) of the silver remotes will do the 30 sec. skip, but not a 2X or faster macro. Correct?

4. Digital SD is slightly noiser than on the P-2. This is the norm I presume?

McTNN - I get the green lines on my Oppo DVD player connected via DVI-HDMI cable - I believe mine are caused by a bad cable. If your III is connected via HDMI or DVI, it could be a bad cable. Monoprice.com sells cables at reasonable prices and I haven't had any problems with the last batch I bought from them (bad cable came free from OPPO.)

I recently replaced a couple of Comcast phase 2's with 3's and noticed:

1. About twice a week, large green dots and dashes appear on live and saved programming. Unplugging the box returns everything to normal. Should I exchange for new or is this a common bug?

2. Something similar to studder or frame dropping. Some people have reported this immediately after plugging in a new box and it later disappearing. Any theories as to its cause?

3. Some (but not all) of the silver remotes will do the 30 sec. skip, but not a 2X or faster macro. Correct?

4. Digital SD is slightly noiser than on the P-2. This is the norm I presume?Haven't seen 1 or 2, never had a P-2 (although some have said they're better and some have said they're worse for SD). As for 3: None of the silver remotes will do a 30 sec skip as delivered, but they can be programmed for it. (Search the thread and you'll find instructions.) Apparently some of the boxes won't do the skip after recent software updates, but that appears to vary by area rather than being tied to a specific version number.

McTNN,

I have had a 6412 III box for a month. I have a HDMI connection to my Sony KDL-V40XBR1. No issues for the first couple of weeks but in the last couple of weeks I've had the exact issue you describe in #1 happen about 6 times. I don't think it's the cable as unplugging the box and plugging it back in fixes the problem for a day or two. It's getting to the point I think I'm going to have to call Comcast.

Off hand, would anyone know why the Panasonic 44" HDTV (PT-44LCX65) connected to the DCT-6XXX style NON-DVR box via components would not allow any other setting other than 480i in the Power-Off-Menu?

I wasn't keeping the components anyway so it doesn't matter. I replaced them with a HDMI cable and DVI adapter and all the options in the Power-Off-Menu were available. I was definitely NOT getting HDTV though.

If I wasn't knowledgeable enough to take things into my own hands I might have accepted the tech's reasoning that "that is just how HDTV will look on your TV"...dope.

Both the Sony DHG 250 & 500 can record HD from either OTA or with it QAM tuner.

I have the 500 as well as the Moto 6412 (DVI Model) dual tuner hd pvr...It is WONDERFUL having 3 tuners to record HD content! There were some bugs with the Sony DHG 500 initially but it spins lock clockwork now.

I was an early adopter and have patiently followed the official AVS forum for the DHG 250/500 and most issues in the Chicagoland area seem to be resolvable...BUT there were some problems that many people had with the PVR that I did not experience so read the forum!

Also it seems that the 250/500's are no longer being offered by Sony and there have been some price drops recently at Crutchfield and Best Buy for example so now would be the time to pick one up if you wanted to give it a try and could find one.

Off hand, would anyone know why the Panasonic 44" HDTV (PT-44LCX65) connected to the DCT-6XXX style NON-DVR box via components would not allow any other setting other than 480i in the Power-Off-Menu?
...
If I wasn't knowledgeable enough to take things into my own hands I might have accepted the tech's reasoning that "that is just how HDTV will look on your TV"...dope.The really sad thing is that probably at least 90% of the people out there would accept a statement like that from a "tech." The new technology's great, but it really could be made simpler for the average person. And the level of training given to "professional" installers is inexcusable.

So why is it that my DCT 6412 phase III box w/ 12.18 firmware will record 5.1 broadcasts but will not replay it 5.1? I am using component not HDMI.

Thanks in advance.

I just recieved my G3 and to my disappointment it only has HDMI connection on it, they have eliminated the DVI connection. So I figured I'd run out and get a HDMI to DVI adapter and be all set! since my HDMI is currently taken up by my DVD player. Well it turns out that the HDMI port is not compatible with adapters, you get this distoted screen and I saw a message flash 1 time when I first plugged it in about it no being able to verify copy protection or something to that degree.

My guess is that they won't allow you to use an unsecure HDMI connection, so the device it's connected to MUST be HDMI and compliant with the box.

So it looks like I'll be going back to my G2... very dissappointing


I'll add one thing slightly off subject about HDMI... This is hands down the worst idea every to come across the AV world. What complete idiot thought up making this completely flimsy cable and port with a center plastic connector and every signal connectors attached to the plastic center piece with nothing on the outside. There is no connector posts or support structure build into the slot. This easily wins the worlds crappiest design award. I have a very strong feeling that HDMI is NOT here to last. over the next two years as these ports easily break on $3K sets and expense boxes... customers are going to get really pissed off when they need out of warranty work to replace these ports on their equiptment. I broke the connection on this G3 already and I only unplugged it and plugged it back in 3 times and the tech told me he's swapped out dozens of the last few months for broken ports. the designer is probably the same genius that thought of just going with 2 digit year codes in computers!

anyone know if Comcast is offering these boxes in southeastern PA? (West Chester/Coatesville area)

I just recieved my G3 and to my disappointment it only has HDMI connection on it, they have eliminated the DVI connection....

So it looks like I'll be going back to my G2... very dissappointing



Well, tell them to send it to me! It's going on two months now since I signed up and they promised me one within two weeks.

All they've given me is a damn tuner box. I can't time shift at all because Comcast claims they don't have any 6412's.

anyone know if Comcast is offering these boxes in southeastern PA? (West Chester/Coatesville area)

What Boxes?

Well, tell them to send it to me! It's going on two months now since I signed up and they promised me one within two weeks.

All they've given me is a damn tuner box. I can't time shift at all because Comcast claims they don't have any 6412's.

The 6412's are being replaced by 3412 STB in areas that have gone all digital.

Most of all the SE PA area is now Digital Simulcast.

Well in any case, Comcast Los Angeles has been saying no HD PVR's are available - for the past two months at least!

The 6412's are being replaced by 3412 STB in areas that have gone all digital.

Most of all the SE PA area is now Digital Simulcast.Does the 3412 work any better?

Well in any case, Comcast Los Angeles has been saying no HD PVR's are available - for the past two months at least!

Comcast does not have any PVR's Did you mean DVR? :)

Does the 3412 work any better?

YMMV

Ummmm! It has a few of the DCT-64xx series quirks and also some of it's own....

It also uses the same STB software as the 64xx series. However it uses the 12.xx series of DVR Firmware.

IPG version depends on your area and Brand used.

I just recieved my G3 and to my disappointment it only has HDMI connection on it, they have eliminated the DVI connection. So I figured I'd run out and get a HDMI to DVI adapter and be all set! since my HDMI is currently taken up by my DVD player. Well it turns out that the HDMI port is not compatible with adapters, you get this distoted screen and I saw a message flash 1 time when I first plugged it in about it no being able to verify copy protection or something to that degree.

My guess is that they won't allow you to use an unsecure HDMI connection, so the device it's connected to MUST be HDMI and compliant with the box.

So it looks like I'll be going back to my G2... very dissappointing


I'll add one thing slightly off subject about HDMI... This is hands down the worst idea every to come across the AV world. What complete idiot thought up making this completely flimsy cable and port with a center plastic connector and every signal connectors attached to the plastic center piece with nothing on the outside. There is no connector posts or support structure build into the slot. This easily wins the worlds crappiest design award. I have a very strong feeling that HDMI is NOT here to last. over the next two years as these ports easily break on $3K sets and expense boxes... customers are going to get really pissed off when they need out of warranty work to replace these ports on their equiptment. I broke the connection on this G3 already and I only unplugged it and plugged it back in 3 times and the tech told me he's swapped out dozens of the last few months for broken ports. the designer is probably the same genius that thought of just going with 2 digit year codes in computers!

I have a 6412 III box that I am using a HDMI to DVI adapter, purchased from monoprice. The dvi works, most of the time. I also have the component connected to the TV, a Samsung which is HDCP compliant. I have not discovered why the adapter works some time and sometimes not. I have two adapters and I have used them interchangeable. Same result. I suspect that sometimes the cp 'flag' is on, sometimes off. Has any body sorted this out?

I have had a 6412 III box for a month. I have a HDMI connection to my Sony KDL-V40XBR1. No issues for the first couple of weeks but in the last couple of weeks I've had the exact issue you describe in #1 happen about 6 times. I don't think it's the cable as unplugging the box and plugging it back in fixes the problem for a day or two. It's getting to the point I think I'm going to have to call Comcast.

I wanted to use HDMI and reduce the clutter of wires, but had to go back to component after experiencing the 5.1 audio bug. The green dash problem is happening on a component connection. It's like the DVR gets confused and the only fix is to reboot.

None of the silver remotes will do a 30 sec skip as delivered, but they can be programmed for it.

That is true with my remotes as well. The odd thing is both remotes can be programmed to do a 30 sec. skip, but only one can manage a 3 minute macro. Each came with the Phase 2's, although the DVR itself doesn't seem to be a factor.

Which is the current model? The fully functional one has a large "On Demand" key at the top while the other does not. Both have swap and PIP.

I suppose that this has been asked already but I don't have to to search through 27 pages. I just got a 6412 and connected it via HDMI to my tv and everything was fine. I connected my Yamaha DVD player to my tv via HDMi and everything was fine. I tried connecting my 6412 and DVD to my Yamaha 5990 receiver via HDMI and receiver to TV via HDMI and it comes in for like 3 seconds and then goes blank. Right now I have the coax cable connected to the receiver and the HDMI to the tv and that works but now I needed more wires for everything else. Anyone else have this problem? Is there a fix?

I suppose that this has been asked already but I don't have to to search through 27 pages. I just got a 6412 and connected it via HDMI to my tv and everything was fine. I connected my Yamaha DVD player to my tv via HDMi and everything was fine. I tried connecting my 6412 and DVD to my Yamaha 5990 receiver via HDMI and receiver to TV via HDMI and it comes in for like 3 seconds and then goes blank. Right now I have the coax cable connected to the receiver and the HDMI to the tv and that works but now I needed more wires for everything else. Anyone else have this problem? Is there a fix?

HDMI is flawed. Use a tosslink or coax cable for your audio from the 6412 to the amp.& Component cables from your 6412 video to your TV/monitor

This will solve the problem....

Does anyone know how to reset the cbl_0476 remote for the 6412 p3's? I reprogrammed the PIP buttons while I was testing the 30 second skip again, but I didn't realize the "advanced codes" webpage for the cbl_0476 didn't have anything about the PIP buttons.

Thanks for the help!!!

Anyone know if the elimination of the 30 second skip is specific to Comcast or 12.22 in general? I have a different cable company but the same equipment and am on 12.18.


My cable is through Armstrong, near Pittsburgh. My original remote did not have a 30 sec skip, but I was able to program it with my Harmony 659 until Armstrong upgraded their service. I had a Motorola 6408 at the time and am unsure what the firmware was for that box. I am not able to get the skip to work on the 6412 either which still has firmware 12.18. No setup button on original remote either.

A few questions please related to the Comcast 6412 STB:

1) Regarding the DD 5.1 bug that's been discussed recently here - let's say I use HDMI just for VIDEO, and feed the audio from an optical out on the back of the STB. Would I still be subject to this HDMI/DD 5.1 bug? I'm trying to figure out if this affects all digital outputs and not just the digital output integrated into the HDMI. I have a front projector so I wouldn't be using HDMI for the sound anyway.

2) Am I correct to assume that even with an HDMI cable plugged in, the optical output on the back of the STB still outputs DD or whatever the source is for the given channel if not DD?

3) I have one of the first 6412 boxes. Would this be considered a Phase I or phase II? How can you tell a phase I, II, and III apart from one another?

4) If I purchase a HDMI to DVI adapter for the back of the STB, is this likely to work? In reading through this thread I'm finding some seemingly contradictory info... some seem to say it works and others have reported it doesn't.

5) Does the Phase III box with the SATA port still use a 160GB internal drive? If not what is the new size? Has anyone verified that the Sony DHG 250 or some other external storage will indeed work to increase recording capacity?

My old 6412 seems to have blown out on me tonight. I found it hung with the clock showing 12:00. I pulled the plug and now its stuck in a loop showing E609 followed by a period of showing "dl" on the display, followed by "EF", then "FP", then "----", then a black display - and then this cycle repeats. Anyone heard about this?

Thanks guys!

lovingdvd,

@ 4)
I have 6412 with DVI output, and my Hitachi HDTV has HDMI in. I use DVI-to-HDMI cable and it works fine, except when I turn TV on and 6412 was on Hi-Def channel. I get split screen. I then swap tuners back and force and it is ok after that.

A few questions please related to the Comcast 6412 STB:

1) Regarding the DD 5.1 bug that's been discussed recently here - let's say I use HDMI just for VIDEO, and feed the audio from an optical out on the back of the STB. Would I still be subject to this HDMI/DD 5.1 bug? I'm trying to figure out if this affects all digital outputs and not just the digital output integrated into the HDMI. I have a front projector so I wouldn't be using HDMI for the sound anyway.

2) Am I correct to assume that even with an HDMI cable plugged in, the optical output on the back of the STB still outputs DD or whatever the source is for the given channel if not DD?

3) I have one of the first 6412 boxes. Would this be considered a Phase I or phase II? How can you tell a phase I, II, and III apart from one another?

4) If I purchase a HDMI to DVI adapter for the back of the STB, is this likely to work? In reading through this thread I'm finding some seemingly contradictory info... some seem to say it works and others have reported it doesn't.

5) Does the Phase III box with the SATA port still use a 160GB internal drive? If not what is the new size? Has anyone verified that the Sony DHG 250 or some other external storage will indeed work to increase recording capacity?

My old 6412 seems to have blown out on me tonight. I found it hung with the clock showing 12:00. I pulled the plug and now its stuck in a loop showing E609 followed by a period of showing "dl" on the display, followed by "EF", then "FP", then "----", then a black display - and then this cycle repeats. Anyone heard about this?

Thanks guys!

The 6412P3 is the only 6412 STb with HDMI, The phase 1 & 2 STB both have DVI


1 & 2) Some people have reported that the Coax & the Optical Audio output will work & some people have reported that it does not work when using the HDMI Port.

3) 6412p1 /2000, 6412p2 / 2005, 6412p3 / 2xxx

4) some seem to say it works and others have reported it doesn't.

5) all of the 6412 STB are 120Gig HD, the last 2 digits show the HD space.

ex: 6208 = 80 Gig HD
6412 = 120 Gig HD
6416 = 160 Gig HD
6432 = 320 Gig HD
3412 = 120 GIG HD
3416 = 160 GIG HD
3432 = 320 GIG HD

Comcast does not have the SATA port Active and has dropped all current plans to support the SATA Port and has also dropped plans to rent External HD.


6) Your Box is stuck doing a reset.

First make sure you have no splitters in line of the cable drop to the STB. This will give the best signal to the STB.

Make sure you have it plugged directly into a wall power socket and not a power strip. / surge protector. (unless you have a power conditioning power strip / surge protector. The DCT series of Motorola STB do not like ANY changes in the voltage....

Then do the following to re-activate / reset your cable box.

To reset the 62xx - 64xx / 34xx STB follow these steps.

*** Be warned this will erase all STB Settings & Your Cable Account Info from the STB ***

*** This will normaly (some reports that it will on the 34xx series) not delete your DVR settings or Stored Shows on the Hard Drive. ***

Reset procedure

Step 1

Unplug Power Cord from STB.

Step 2

on the STB, Press & Hold {Power & Menu} Keys while plugging the Power Cord back into the STB.

The Display should now say (BOOT)

Step 3

Let Go of the {Power & Menu} Keys and press the up or down arrow keys till you see (n DL) on the Display.

Step 4

Push the {Select} Key To begin Downloading STB software, IPG software, DVR Firmware & Your Account Settings from your Cable Head End. Could take up to 20 min to download.


After it completes this Download the STB will Reset and then begin to download the Time setting info for the STB Clock & begin to populate the IGuide info. Keep your STB on Standby/Off to speed up the IGuide info download.
Could take up to 24 Hours to fill in all 2 weeks of IGuide info.


You then need to check your signal strength via the diagnostic menu if you have any further problems.

To access the diagnostic menu, start with your STB on.

turn off the STB and press ok/select within 2 sec.

To exit the Diagnostic screen just hit the power button.

A few questions please related to the Comcast 6412 STB:

1) Regarding the DD 5.1 bug that's been discussed recently here - let's say I use HDMI just for VIDEO, and feed the audio from an optical out on the back of the STB. Would I still be subject to this HDMI/DD 5.1 bug? I'm trying to figure out if this affects all digital outputs and not just the digital output integrated into the HDMI. I have a front projector so I wouldn't be using HDMI for the sound anyway.

2) Am I correct to assume that even with an HDMI cable plugged in, the optical output on the back of the STB still outputs DD or whatever the source is for the given channel if not DD?
...
4) If I purchase a HDMI to DVI adapter for the back of the STB, is this likely to work? In reading through this thread I'm finding some seemingly contradictory info... some seem to say it works and others have reported it doesn't.
...1- I think it's pretty consistently reported that just having an HDMI cable plugged into the box causes the bug with firmware 12.18 and below. The part that's confusing is that it does not affect live TV, so people don't immediately notice it. You just lose 5.1 when watching something recorded (or in the buffer).

2- There is always an output on the optical connection, and I believe it's always DD. It just may drop down to 2 channel DD when the bug bites.

4- I tried an HDMI to DVI cable on mine. Video worked beautifully. Got the audio bug. Also got some weird problem with the controls; thing wouldn't respond to commands for a time, then run through them all at once, then stop responding again. I had to go back to component, but that's working fine (even if at very slightly reduced picture quality).

Thanks for the info guys. I had to exchange my 6412 this morning due to the E609 error I reported. New box is working fine. I purposely went with the Phase II box because of the bugs. I like to be an early adapter but figure I'll pass on phase III for now until its more stable and just use the DVI.

I have a 6412 phase III box connected via HDMI to a Panasonic TH-50PX50U. I’m in Iowa and have Mediacom cable. I noticed recently that when I would start playing a recorded program off the 6412, the HDMI input indicator on the Panasonic would display on the screen for a moment, just like it does when you manually change the TV input. Other various moving around on the 6412 would also trigger this indicator to popup. I got curious, because I’d never noticed this before, so I checked the firmware version. Yep, I’d been updated from 12.18 to 12.22.

My screensaver doesn't fill the whole screen. It fills the 4:3 area of the screen but I get the normal picture in the area where you'd normally see the black bars when watching 4:3 content on a 16:9 screen.

I'm on Insight in Lousville with 73.44 and 12.22.

Anyone else experience this?

My screensaver doesn't fill the whole screen. It fills the 4:3 area of the screen but I get the normal picture in the area where you'd normally see the black bars when watching 4:3 content on a 16:9 screen.

I'm on Insight in Lousville with 73.44 and 12.22.

Anyone else experience this?

What IPG ( Interactive Program Guide) do you have?

As i mentioned in another thread, a Moto rep at CES "confirmed" they had no plans in the forseeable future to activate the port for an external drive for any of their cable clients. He agreed that the storage in the 6412 was lacking.
I saw models mentioned here of "6416" and "6432". I wasn't looking, but don't recall seeing these on display. (Didn't see those model numbers here on this thread until I returned.) They were demoing what i call a "work in progress" - a home media center using the 6412 as the base unit. It would seem to me if they had a box w. more capacity, they would have used it in their demo.

...mike

How do you determine the bit rate on the channels you are watching? I thought I saw this some where in this thread but I can't find it now.

I'm experiencing the "shutter" image again the last two days. Not sure if it's a nation wide deal or not but my HD has been looking sub par. The ABC football games looked crappy and the main shutter comes from the INHD1/2 channels but I can see it a little on some other channels. If this is the case then I'm assuming I'm having PQ signal loss which will result in overall below average HD

Thanks.

What IPG ( Interactive Program Guide) do you have?Sorry I don't know. I do notice a TV Guide red logo sometimes if that helps. Guess I need to figure that out.

Can we talk about storage capacity for a moment?

The 6412 has a 120 Gb drive. According to Motorola that's 12 to 20 hours of HD. Fine. Where it gets tricky is in recording non-HD. They claim 90 hours for standard dgitial TV. Most of my non-HD channels are still delivered in analog.

I'm on Insight cable. Channels 1 - 99 are still delivered to the box and the rest of the house as plain-old analog cable. Any channels above that are digital as I understand it. So, any programs I record on 1 - 99 have to be digitized by the box. Furthermore, since there's no quality level setting like a TiVo they're all recorded in "Best" mode. Which means I can't record much of those channels before filling up the box. I think Insight said I could record 40 hours of non-HD channels.

Does this make sense?

Can we talk about storage capacity for a moment?

The 6412 has a 120 Gb drive. According to Motorola that's 12 to 20 hours of HD. Fine. Where it gets tricky is in recording non-HD. They claim 90 hours for standard dgitial TV. Most of my non-HD channels are still delivered in analog.

I'm on Insight cable. Channels 1 - 99 are still delivered to the box and the rest of the house as plain-old analog cable. Any channels above that are digital as I understand it. So, any programs I record on 1 - 99 have to be digitized by the box. Furthermore, since there's no quality level setting like a TiVo they're all recorded in "Best" mode. Which means I can't record much of those channels before filling up the box. I think Insight said I could record 40 hours of non-HD channels.

Does this make sense?

correct. Except the Analog ch will be recorded to the HD as a analog MPEG2 file that uses more HD space then a SD digital Ch.

Once your area goes ADS (Analog Digital Simulcast) then those ADS Ch. will be recorded in the Digital MPEG2 format.

The amount of space used by your HD recordings depends on the Bitrate of the signal on whatever HD Ch. ABC & FOX & Disc.-HD use the hoghest Bitrates that I have seen, so shows from them would take more room.

qucik question, anyway to hook up a HD TiVo inline with this set top box?

Been using a SD TiVo for quite some time.

Decided to give D* a try with the HD DVR and they are set to install tomorrow. With all the problems I read about getting locals in my area in HD with D* I'm skeptical.

Watched some HD on insight last night (Peoria, IL) and was very impressed.

Since I already have insight, I may cancel the D* install and go with insight but I am very disappointed with the DVR, and will miss my TiVo.

If I could purchase a HD TiVo for use with insight's HD service I could have the best of both worlds!

Possible?

Once your area goes ADS (Analog Digital Simulcast) then those ADS Ch. will be recorded in the Digital MPEG2 format. Two questions:

1) What is ADS? I assume that means all the channels I get that are strictly analog will be broadcast as pure digital along with the old analog. Is this some kind of FCC requirement? I haven't heard anything about my cable company going to this format.

2) When my system goes ADS (assuming it does) how much recording capacity should I expect for SD programming?

Anyone out there have any idea when San Francisco may get the firmware update for the 6412? I'm still at 12.18 and I haven't even bothered hooking up the HDMI connector for fear of hitting the bug about only getting PCM 2-channel output on recorded content. This is a completely known bug right? I just don't feel like even trying to reproduce it, since so many people seem to have the problem.

Is there much of a PQ differance using the HDMI over the Component? Guess I'll have to buy a stupid Component video switchbox until they get this sorted out, hope that doesn't affect the PQ too much more.

Thanks in advance.

Anyone out there have any idea when San Francisco may get the firmware update for the 6412? I'm still at 12.18 and I haven't even bothered hooking up the HDMI connector for fear of hitting the bug about only getting PCM 2-channel output on recorded content. This is a completely known bug right? I just don't feel like even trying to reproduce it, since so many people seem to have the problem.

Is there much of a PQ differance using the HDMI over the Component? Guess I'll have to buy a stupid Component video switchbox until they get this sorted out, hope that doesn't affect the PQ too much more.

Thanks in advance.

I switched from HDMI to Component with my 6412III and can't see any lower PQ; if anything I think it may be better.

Is there much of a PQ differance using the HDMI over the Component? Guess I'll have to buy a stupid Component video switchbox until they get this sorted out, hope that doesn't affect the PQ too much more.


Like most of us, I have a lot of wiring behind my TV; mostly power cords and such. The HDMI cable transmits the digital data to the TV uncompressed (audio & video). When using component cables (analog) with my tv/cable box, I get some faint disturbance from all of the electrical noise. So yes, I do notice a difference with the HDMI cable. Let's just hope I can convince our local cable company to get the firmware upgrade.

Anyone out there have any idea when San Francisco may get the firmware update for the 6412?
We are generally the last area to get anything from Comcast because we are a general pain in their butts when it comes to being vocal and raising Cain within the local media when something doesn't work right. I'll bet Comcast is still smarting over the Comcast DVR rollout/TiVo giveaway fiasco.

If component looks better, something's not right.

Can anyone tell me when the firmware upgrade to the 6412 p3 occurred? When I first received my 6412, I was on 12.18 and now it's 12.22. The reason I ask is b/c I now seem to be receiving a distortion when watching the scrolling sports scores on ESPN HD (on occasion, a distortion line appears and flickers for a few seconds).

For anyone who is interested, I have determined that the line distortion I receive on ESPN HD is originating from my Audio Authority 1154A Component Video Selector. I completely disconnected my entire setup and just hooked my 6412 p3 directly into my HDTV. I would leave my setup like this, but I only have one set of component video inputs on the back of my HDTV (it doesn't have DVI or HDMI inputs).

Does anyone have any suggestions on a new component video selector?

I used a Zektor HDS4 for a couple of years and it worked perfectly, in fact, I'd like to sell it if anyone is interested, PM me.

http://www.zektor.com/hds4/index.html
HDS4 - Overview

Regarding the screensaver. I have Insight in Columbus and noticed that the screensaver does not fill the entire screen with the HD channels, but does with the SD channels.

Hi, which comcast hdtv dvr model supports an external sata drive? can i call my comcast co. and ask them to switch my box? i have the 6412 III. also what is the point of the usb 2.0 port on the front?

Hi, which comcast hdtv dvr model supports an external sata drive? can i call my comcast co. and ask them to switch my box? i have the 6412 III. also what is the point of the usb 2.0 port on the front?

Comcast has no intention of ever turning on and supporting the sata on any box they will offer. The 6412 III and the 3412 have sata ports. I believe Comcast is going to wait for the next generation of boxes that will have 300 +GB of hard drive space, larger buffers and a better guide. Comcast claims that external add on's produce complex software issues that result in expensive customer service issues and endless service calls.

I have had all generations of Moto 64xx and 34xx boxes. Since I have a DVI/componet TV, the HDMI output of the 6412 III and 3412 have created serious issues for my tv. I did use a HDMI adapter to DVI connector but to no relief. The 3412 boxes allow you to set the HDMI output to either HDMI or DVI output. Still I have had three 3412 boxes and none are stable. I suggest people with DVI/Componet inputs stick with the 6412 II boxes.

i could have swarn i read posts some where that the 8000 or so serise box allows the sata output to work....

edit:
here is the post about this, but its not with comcast i guess.... :(

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=516559

also what is the point of the usb 2.0 port on the front?
and whats the ethernet port for?

i could have swarn i read posts some where that the 8000 or so serise box allows the sata output to work....

edit:
here is the post about this, but its not with comcast i guess.... :(

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=516559

also what is the point of the usb 2.0 port on the front?
and whats the ethernet port for?

Your head end is setup to work with 1 set of STB, Comcast uses Either Motorola or Scientific Atlanta, but not both unless they have a duel head end plant.

Motorola does not have a DCT-8000

Scientific Atlanta has a 8000HD

8300HD and External SATA - It Works!! http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5277957&&#post5277957


The USB ports if enabled by the cable co. can be used for external devices like:

Mouse
Key Board
ect.....

My 30sec skip no longer works. I contacted my cable company, Insight, regarding the 30 sec skip feature being disabled for the 6412 p3's. Insight told me that the skip feature was removed in the last software update. Apparently Insight didn't realize anyone was actually using this feature and they apologized for the inconvience. However, they did not have any information regarding their next software update.

For those of you who want this feature back, please contact your cable company so they will know how many of us actually use it!

Hi, which comcast hdtv dvr model supports an external sata drive? can i call my comcast co. and ask them to switch my box? i have the 6412 III. also what is the point of the usb 2.0 port on the front?

As I mentioned elsewhere - I asked the Moto people at CES if ANY of their cable clients were going to activate the port to hook up an external drive in the forseeable future. The answer was "No". One rep did say "the internal disk sure fills up fast, doesn't it." Moto was demonstrating a preview of a home media center using the 6412 as a key component

...mike

I contacted my cable company, Insight, regarding the 30 sec skip feature being disabled for the 6412 p3's. Insight told me that the skip feature was removed in the last software update. Apparently Insight didn't realize anyone was actually using this feature and they apologized for the inconvience. However, they did not have any information regarding their next software update.

For those of you who want this feature back, please contact your cable company so they will know how many of us actually use it!

That button on my remote gets more "presses" per day than all the rest combined!!

...mike

I contacted my cable company, Insight, regarding the 30 sec skip feature being disabled for the 6412 p3's. Insight told me that the skip feature was removed in the last software update. Apparently Insight didn't realize anyone was actually using this feature and they apologized for the inconvience. However, they did not have any information regarding their next software update.

For those of you who want this feature back, please contact your cable company so they will know how many of us actually use it!

The Software has nothing to do with the 30 sec. Skip. It is a setting in the DVR Firmware, and can be turned on / off at the local Head End Plant. No Update or change is needed in the Firmware. All they need to do is go into the controller file on the computer and add the tick mark to that feature. It is as simple as adding a tick mark to all the other settings.

They are pulling your chain. as the software version that insight, uses has not changed in over a year.....

I contacted my cable company, Insight, regarding the 30 sec skip feature being disabled for the 6412 p3's. Insight told me that the skip feature was removed in the last software update. Apparently Insight didn't realize anyone was actually using this feature and they apologized for the inconvience. However, they did not have any information regarding their next software update.

For those of you who want this feature back, please contact your cable company so they will know how many of us actually use it!

I think you got the standard "we care" comment from the CSR. It's highly unlikely the disabling was an accident and the order to do so quite probably came down from upstairs.

30 sec skip is a hot button with the advertisers and the fact is those folks cut a much larger check to the MSOs than you or I. So guess who gets the more sympathetic ear on the subject?

30 sec skip is a hot button with the advertisers and the fact is those folks cut a much larger check to the MSOs than you or I. So guess who gets the more sympathetic ear on the subject?

And I thought they had my best interests in mind! :p

I will keep pursuing this with Insight.

Comcast has no intention of ever turning on and supporting the sata on any box they will offer. The 6412 III and the 3412 have sata ports. I believe Comcast is going to wait for the next generation of boxes that will have 300 +GB of hard drive space, larger buffers and a better guide. Comcast claims that external add on's produce complex software issues that result in expensive customer service issues and endless service calls.

I have had all generations of Moto 64xx and 34xx boxes. Since I have a DVI/componet TV, the HDMI output of the 6412 III and 3412 have created serious issues for my tv. I did use a HDMI adapter to DVI connector but to no relief. The 3412 boxes allow you to set the HDMI output to either HDMI or DVI output. Still I have had three 3412 boxes and none are stable. I suggest people with DVI/Componet inputs stick with the 6412 II boxes.
what issues did you notice with the HDMI-DVI adaptor. My Sammy DLP (2 yo) has DVI only and I've noticed a difference compared with my D* TS160 box w/ DVI. I'll also PM you.
Tim

Here's a theory... DVI does not transmit audio, so what if you did the following:

6412III -> HDMI to DVI adapter -> DVI to HDMI adapter -> Display Device

Would converting to DVI and back let you use the HDMI port and not experience the surround sound bug? I'm tempted to drop a couple bucks on an adapter and try it out. Having to use component has really munged up my setup, I have limited component switch ports available.

Have they improved the loud (and quite annoying) fan noise on these Phase III boxes that occurs when the unit gets warm? For instance my DVD player is located near the STB (and I cannot separate these - its a long story). So when I have the DVD player on it gets hot and kicks the STB into its higher fan speed.

Here's a theory... DVI does not transmit audio, so what if you did the following:

6412III -> HDMI to DVI adapter -> DVI to HDMI adapter -> Display Device

Would converting to DVI and back let you use the HDMI port and not experience the surround sound bug? I'm tempted to drop a couple bucks on an adapter and try it out. Having to use component has really munged up my setup, I have limited component switch ports available.No, it wouldn't. I have tried an HDMI to DVI adapter (my set doesn't have HDMI inputs). Audio bug is there if you use the HDMI port regardless of what you've got on the other end.

Have they improved the loud (and quite annoying) fan noise on these Phase III boxes that occurs when the unit gets warm? For instance my DVD player is located near the STB (and I cannot separate these - its a long story). So when I have the DVD player on it gets hot and kicks the STB into its higher fan speed.

Hmmm, I didn't know the 6412 has a 'high speed' gear. But anyway, yes, the internal hard disk does generate noise, so all you can do is to try to arrange things to minimize its impact. I've found that by moving it as far FORWARD on the equipment shelf (see picture 6412 is on the top right shelf), that this lessens the sound, presumably by giving it a larger volume behind the unit for the sound to disapate into. By the same vein, it would be good to cut out the back of your stand (if it's anything like mine) so that the sound can escape rearward.

Yes definitely it has two fan speeds - the higher fan kicks in when it gets too warm.

Yes definitely it has two fan speeds - the higher fan kicks in when it gets too warm.

Thanks, that's good to know and thus motivates one to keep it cool!

anyone know why my comcast 6412 III freezes some times? i have to either unplug it or call the cable co. to reset it . this happens at least once a day. do i have a faulty box, or is this just a bugy POS?

For years I've wanted Motorola to add a native resolution output. Has this been implemented yet by any chance?

In other words, for stations that broadcast in 720p, I want the STB to output 720p. For stations that broadcast in 1080i, I want the STB to broadcast in 1080i.

My scaler does a much better job than the internal scaler in the STB. Therefore this is important to ensure the best PQ.

Currently (as it has been) this is a real PITA because I have to manually switch the box between 720p and 1080i accordingly.

This presents a real issue because not only is it a pain, but also because if the box is recording you cannot even switch it or it'll stop recording. This is because you have to turn off the box to get to the menu where the mode is selected, and the operation of turning off the box cancels any recording in progress on the other tuner.

So Motorola - PLEASE implement this basic feature already. But if not, AT LEAST make it so you can freely choose between 720p and 1080i in the USER menu to make it easier to switch back and forth.

Anyone else annoyed by the lack of this feature?

lovingdvd: how do you know the resolution a show is being brodcasted in? and where in the box can you set it to?

lovingdvd: how do you know the resolution a show is being brodcasted in? and where in the box can you set it to?

Its not by show - rather, its by station. For instance Fox, ESPN and ABC broadcast in 720p. Most other channels are 1080i. You can force the STB between 720p vs. 1080i in one of the service menus. I can't recall the sequence to get into the menus of hand but they are posted in several places. Its on the same screen where you set your TV type to 16:9 vs 4:3 etc.

Its not by show - rather, its by station. For instance Fox, ESPN and ABC broadcast in 720p. Most other channels are 1080i. You can force the STB between 720p vs. 1080i in one of the service menus. I can't recall the sequence to get into the menus of hand but they are posted in several places. Its on the same screen where you set your TV type to 16:9 vs 4:3 etc.


power off the STB and press MENU within 2 sec.

For years I've wanted Motorola to add a native resolution output. Has this been implemented yet by any chance?

In other words, for stations that broadcast in 720p, I want the STB to output 720p. For stations that broadcast in 1080i, I want the STB to broadcast in 1080i.

My scaler does a much better job than the internal scaler in the STB. Therefore this is important to ensure the best PQ.

Currently (as it has been) this is a real PITA because I have to manually switch the box between 720p and 1080i accordingly.

This presents a real issue because not only is it a pain, but also because if the box is recording you cannot even switch it or it'll stop recording. This is because you have to turn off the box to get to the menu where the mode is selected, and the operation of turning off the box cancels any recording in progress on the other tuner.


So Motorola - PLEASE implement this basic feature already. But if not, AT LEAST make it so you can freely choose between 720p and 1080i in the USER menu to make it easier to switch back and forth.

Anyone else annoyed by the lack of this feature?


Yes. But it's been this way since the first DCT- HD capable STB came out.

:(

Yes. But it's been this way since the first DCT- HD capable STB came out.

:(

Right, I know. That's why I was asking whether they have added this option in the later boxes. Doesn't sound like it, but they really need to get on this alerady...

Right, I know. That's why I was asking whether they have added this option in the later boxes. Doesn't sound like it, but they really need to get on this alerady...


Sorry but the answer would be NO... :mad: I have never seen any device that has to be turned off w/ key presses to get to a user menu....

Just makes me want to do a Bill Engval " Here's Your Sign!" to the Designer and QA staff at /\/\otorola.

Here's a new error I've seen recently. It seems to occur if I keep the buffer on pause until the buffer is near full. Then when I start it the skip back and skip forward display a circle with a line through it. And the video will not start playing - its just frozen on the currently paused picture.

Then when I go to change the channel I get an error message that says "cannot delete while file is in user close file and try again code CIU.". The only way to fix it is to unplug the power.

Anyone else seen this? I had the 6412 for a couple of years and never saw it. Recently I had to replace it with another one because the old one failed. Anyway, since I've gotten this box is when I started seeing this. This is a Phase II box BTW. Thanks.

Here's a new error I've seen recently. It seems to occur if I keep the buffer on pause until the buffer is near full. Then when I start it the skip back and skip forward display a circle with a line through it. And the video will not start playing - its just frozen on the currently paused picture.

Then when I go to change the channel I get an error message that says "cannot delete while file is in user close file and try again code CIU.". The only way to fix it is to unplug the power.

Anyone else seen this? I had the 6412 for a couple of years and never saw it. Recently I had to replace it with another one because the old one failed. Anyway, since I've gotten this box is when I started seeing this. This is a Phase II box BTW. Thanks.

You need to reset the DVR & Hard Drive.


DVR Hard Drive reset of the DCT-- 6208, 64xx & 34xx STB

NOTE *** This will delete all stored shows on the Hard Drive!
This will also delete all Guide Data & Any type of scheduled recording settings!

1. STB should be turned on
2. Press Cable, Power off, ok/Select, to bring up the Diagnostics Page
3. With diagnostics page showing press Replay (15-sec rewind), My DVR, My DVR, My DVR, Live.
4. Your STB should now show "Clr" in the LED display.
5. Press ok/Select to proceed with the reset (and presumably Exit to cancel).
6. The STB should now reformat the HD & then reboot and begin to download the Guide data from the Local headend...

You need to reset the DVR & Hard Drive.


DVR Hard Drive reset of the DCT-- 6208, 64xx & 34xx STB

NOTE *** This will delete all stored shows on the Hard Drive!
This will also delete all Guide Data & Any type of scheduled recording settings!

1. STB should be turned on
2. Press Cable, Power off, ok/Select, to bring up the Diagnostics Page
3. With diagnostics page showing press Replay (15-sec rewind), My DVR, My DVR, My DVR, Live.
4. Your STB should now show "Clr" in the LED display.
5. Press ok/Select to proceed with the reset (and presumably Exit to cancel).
6. The STB should now reformat the HD & then reboot and begin to download the Guide data from the Local headend...

So I take it this is something that's been reported before? What's the background on the cause, and do the above steps resolve it permanently? I don't mind trying it but wouldn't want to lose all my shows and setups just to have the same issue come back. Thanks.

So I take it this is something that's been reported before? What's the background on the cause, and do the above steps resolve it permanently? I don't mind trying it but wouldn't want to lose all my shows and setups just to have the same issue come back. Thanks.

Sorry, could not tell you why, but I have seen it several times. It might be a bad recording, or it might be a STB software or DVR Firmware issue....

If the DVR reset does not work, you might want to re-boot the STB back to factory new Condition (what your cable Co. Installer did) and have it re-download all of your STB Software, IPG Software and the DVR Firmware & your account settings. This does not delete the recordings and settings for your DVR, like the DVR reset does.

To reset the 62xx - 64xx / 34xx STB Back to Factory New / New Install follow these steps.

*** Be warned this will erase all STB Settings & Your Cable Account Info from the STB ***

*** This will normaly (some reports that it will on the 34xx series) not delete your DVR settings or Stored Shows on the Hard Drive. ***

Reset procedure

Step 1

Unplug Power Cord from STB.

Step 2

on the STB, Press & Hold {Power & Menu} Keys while plugging the Power Cord back into the STB.

The Display should now say (BOOT)

Step 3

Let Go of the {Power & Menu} Keys and press the up or down arrow keys till you see (n DL) on the Display.

Step 4

Push the {Select} Key To begin Downloading STB software, IPG software, DVR Firmware & Your Account Settings from your Cable Head End. Could take up to 20 min to download. You should see [DL] in the display with a led line moving in a square.


After it completes this Download the STB will Reset/reboot and then begin to download the Time setting info for the STB Clock & begin to populate the IGuide info & Download your cable account info.. Keep your STB on Standby/Off mode to speed up the IGuide info download. Could take up to 24 Hours to fill in all 2 weeks of IGuide info.

I have never seen any device that has to be turned off w/ key presses to get to a user menu. Just makes me want to do a Bill Engval " Here's Your Sign!" to the Designer and QA staff at /\/\otorola.
It's not really a "User Menu", though. Most of us here know what we're doing, but Joe Cablebox who just bought an "HDTV" from Best Buy on sale probably doesn't- and not only that, it's not something that (the way these boxes were intended to be used, with a single-resolution set) would be changed but once.

Thanks scanpa. The odd thing is that this error (code CIU or whatever) occurs not when watching a prerecorded show, but rather it occurs when I have paused live TV for some time and then go to resume it- nothing happens it won't come out of being paused and when I go to change the channel I get this error. This does not happen often but does occur enough to be annoying.

Not for sure but do you have any series recordings padded with extra minutes? That is a known issue causing freezes at around 4:50 pm at least where I am at.
I have noticed almost everyday at 4:50, even though I don't pad recordings I can't do anything with my tv for at least 10 seconds.

On a different note I had just read somewhere about hdmi issues with SAT boxes causing them to crash. And before I got my dvd changer I was using hdmi and I could swear almost everyday when I turned my tv on it reset the box. I though it was my Mitsubishi netcommand doing it. When I went back to component it stopped doing it but I also stopped netcommand from turning box on and off too. So don't know if coinicidence. Anyone else have issues with box resetting using hdmi?

For years I've wanted Motorola to add a native resolution output. Has this been implemented yet by any chance?

In other words, for stations that broadcast in 720p, I want the STB to output 720p. For stations that broadcast in 1080i, I want the STB to broadcast in 1080i.

My scaler does a much better job than the internal scaler in the STB. Therefore this is important to ensure the best PQ.

Currently (as it has been) this is a real PITA because I have to manually switch the box between 720p and 1080i accordingly.

This presents a real issue because not only is it a pain, but also because if the box is recording you cannot even switch it or it'll stop recording. This is because you have to turn off the box to get to the menu where the mode is selected, and the operation of turning off the box cancels any recording in progress on the other tuner.

So Motorola - PLEASE implement this basic feature already. But if not, AT LEAST make it so you can freely choose between 720p and 1080i in the USER menu to make it easier to switch back and forth.

Anyone else annoyed by the lack of this feature?
I've asked a related question over on the Comcast 6412 thread: actually I as wondering if anybody knew whether a Sony SXRD would output a better PQ if it was fed a 720P signal from the 6412, thus letting the SXRD do the scaling, rather than having the box scale the 720p signal to 1080i, then outputting that signal to the SXRD. I'm just trying to get the best PQ for a SuperBowl party I'm having.
I'm guessing the SXRD has a better scaler than the 6412, but I'm not sure.

I've asked a related question over on the Comcast 6412 thread: actually I as wondering if anybody knew whether a Sony SXRD would output a better PQ if it was fed a 720P signal from the 6412, thus letting the SXRD do the scaling, rather than having the box scale the 720p signal to 1080i, then outputting that signal to the SXRD. I'm just trying to get the best PQ for a SuperBowl party I'm having.
I'm guessing the SXRD has a better scaler than the 6412, but I'm not sure.

For decent to high end displays like the Sony, I think generally you'll find it best to send the native output to the display. So it the station broadcasts in 720p, sent the Sony 720p. If 1080i, send it 1080i. Hence, the reason for my post about why it is a PITA to keep changing this in the menus when I change channels.

The best thing of course is to just test this. Try it both ways and see what you think looks best. Generally I think you'll find one marginally better than the other, and not a huge difference. So if you are a videophile you'll notice and appreciate the difference, but odds are no one else at your superbowl party would notice a difference of have a differing opinion on the wow factor of your set in HD.

For decent to high end displays like the Sony, I think generally you'll find it best to send the native output to the display. So it the station broadcasts in 720p, sent the Sony 720p. If 1080i, send it 1080i. Hence, the reason for my post about why it is a PITA to keep changing this in the menus when I change channels.

The best thing of course is to just test this. Try it both ways and see what you think looks best. Generally I think you'll find one marginally better than the other, and not a huge difference. So if you are a videophile you'll notice and appreciate the difference, but odds are no one else at your superbowl party would notice a difference of have a differing opinion on the wow factor of your set in HD.
Thanks,
I thought that was the way to go...just looking for a sanity check before I start messing with the STB menus.

So you have already verified that your TV has a better scaler than the STB? Is it that obvious on your system? Seems like it would be easier to tell if you had some test patterns to use for comparison. What tv do you own?

For decent to high end displays like the Sony, I think generally you'll find it best to send the native output to the display. So it the station broadcasts in 720p, sent the Sony 720p. If 1080i, send it 1080i. Hence, the reason for my post about why it is a PITA to keep changing this in the menus when I change channels.

The best thing of course is to just test this. Try it both ways and see what you think looks best. Generally I think you'll find one marginally better than the other, and not a huge difference. So if you are a videophile you'll notice and appreciate the difference, but odds are no one else at your superbowl party would notice a difference of have a differing opinion on the wow factor of your set in HD.

What you say sounds logical, so I tried it this weekend on the Fox (720p) NFL playoff game. With my Mits 1080p dlp (73727), it looked better having my Comcast cable box (6412III) send it 1080i rather than 720p. So it seems that these '1080p' sets really want to have 1080i coming into them.

Here's a new error I've seen recently. It seems to occur if I keep the buffer on pause until the buffer is near full. Then when I start it the skip back and skip forward display a circle with a line through it. And the video will not start playing - its just frozen on the currently paused picture.

Then when I go to change the channel I get an error message that says "cannot delete while file is in user close file and try again code CIU.". The only way to fix it is to unplug the power.

Anyone else seen this? I had the 6412 for a couple of years and never saw it. Recently I had to replace it with another one because the old one failed. Anyway, since I've gotten this box is when I started seeing this. This is a Phase II box BTW. Thanks.
My guess is that has gotten confused. It's index has ended up before the beginning of the buffer, and it's trying to play something that doesn't exist.

Can you simply power it off when the bug occurs?

My guess is that has gotten confused. It's index has ended up before the beginning of the buffer, and it's trying to play something that doesn't exist.

Can you simply power it off when the bug occurs?

Typically I don't see it but when I do, yes, a power off does the trick. The problem with that of course is that I then lose what I just had paused intentionally in the buffer. And then of couse you have to wait a few minutes to get the DVR functionality back with no guide data etc. It's manageable but a PITA.

If one hooks up hdmi to the phase 3 model, does the unit still output a signal via either the coax out or RCA out so one can record on a vcr?

If one hooks up hdmi to the phase 3 model, does the unit still output a signal via either the coax out or RCA out so one can record on a vcr?
Yup! I have one of those cheap Cyberhome 1600 DVD+R/W recorders, and I've sucessfully recorded shows that were originally broadcast and stored in 1080i (and displayed on the main set that way) as 480i out via the S-Video/Analog-audio outputs.

Typically I don't see it but when I do, yes, a power off does the trick. The problem with that of course is that I then lose what I just had paused intentionally in the buffer. And then of couse you have to wait a few minutes to get the DVR functionality back with no guide data etc. It's manageable but a PITA.
By power off, I meant using the Power button on the remote or the box, not unplugging it.

By power off, I meant using the Power button on the remote or the box, not unplugging it.

Putting the box in standby mode. :p

What you say sounds logical, so I tried it this weekend on the Fox (720p) NFL playoff game. With my Mits 1080p dlp (73727), it looked better having my Comcast cable box (6412III) send it 1080i rather than 720p. So it seems that these '1080p' sets really want to have 1080i coming into them.That's odd, 'cause you're losing data that way. 720p -> 1080p = upscaling, no data loss. 720p -> 1080i loses picture data by interlacing, even if you later deinterlace to 1080p.

That's odd, 'cause you're losing data that way. 720p -> 1080p = upscaling, no data loss. 720p -> 1080i loses picture data by interlacing, even if you later deinterlace to 1080p.

I agree that it doesn't make sense, but it is definitely what I see (i.e., that having the Comcast 6412III output 1080i to my Mits 1080p dlp looks better than having it output 720p, even on a 720p station such as Fox).

I agree that it doesn't make sense, but it is definitely what I see (i.e., that having the Comcast 6412III output 1080i to my Mits 1080p dlp looks better than having it output 720p, even on a 720p station such as Fox).Well, that's really all that matters. What looks best is best, whether it makes sense or not.

I agree that it doesn't make sense, but it is definitely what I see (i.e., that having the Comcast 6412III output 1080i to my Mits 1080p dlp looks better than having it output 720p, even on a 720p station such as Fox).

I get the same sort of results with my Samsung 1080P DLP. 720P just didn't look right for whatever reason.

I get the same sort of results with my Samsung 1080P DLP. 720P just didn't look right for whatever reason.

Good to have some confirmation; maybe it ISN'T just my 65 year old eyes! It seems clear that we (at least me) don't really understand what these '1080p' sets are doing before they finally display 1080p.

However it does seem clear that these sets do best when they are sent 1080i, letting the cable stb get it to this even if the original broacast is 720p.

I'm confused as to what the FireWire ports on the 6412 are used for. I've seen articles that tell you how to copy recorded shows from the 6412 onto the computer, using the FireWire port. I've seen posts here that indicate you can get video and audio on the TV using FireWire, but how does it compare to Component or HDMI connections?

--- John B.

I'm confused as to what the FireWire ports on the 6412 are used for. I've seen articles that tell you how to copy recorded shows from the 6412 onto the computer, using the FireWire port. I've seen posts here that indicate you can get video and audio on the TV using FireWire, but how does it compare to Component or HDMI connections?

--- John B.

One neg. Point

OSD does not work when using Firewire between STB & TV

That's odd, 'cause you're losing data that way. 720p -> 1080p = upscaling, no data loss. 720p -> 1080i loses picture data by interlacing, even if you later deinterlace to 1080p.

Not really. The scaler used in the 6412 isn't very good. I always recommend using a 1080i output for HD. Let the TV do the work. Even if there is some loss of data it will still look better.

I'm confused as to what the FireWire ports on the 6412 are used for. I've seen articles that tell you how to copy recorded shows from the 6412 onto the computer, using the FireWire port. I've seen posts here that indicate you can get video and audio on the TV using FireWire, but how does it compare to Component or HDMI connections?
From what I've read, Firewire tends to cause the box to respond sluggishly. Graphics (guide, etc..) do not show up. Also, your TV or whatever may not work if the material is tagged as copy protected.

Not really. The scaler used in the 6412 isn't very good. I always recommend using a 1080i output for HD. Let the TV do the work. Even if there is some loss of data it will still look better.

In that case then you'd want to be sure to change the output from 1080i to 720p when watching ABCHD, ESPNHD, or FOXHD and leaving it at 1080i otherwise. This assumes your display can accept both 720p and 1080i.

Otherwise, if you always leave the STB at 1080i, then you will be making it scale 720p signals to 1080i and enaging its scaler...

how do you guys change your stb to output 720p? mines allways 1080i...

In that case then you'd want to be sure to change the output from 1080i to 720p when watching ABCHD, ESPNHD, or FOXHD and leaving it at 1080i otherwise. This assumes your display can accept both 720p and 1080i.

Otherwise, if you always leave the STB at 1080i, then you will be making it scale 720p signals to 1080i and enaging its scaler...

Nope. 720p signals (FOX-HD, ABC-HD) look the same when set either way. So this isn't an issue. It's 1080i signals that are the problem. The 6412 has a very poor deinterlacer. It's quite evident because the picture looks soft. I had a Phase II box and it was the same way. Leave it set to 1080i for all HD content.

Nope. 720p signals (FOX-HD, ABC-HD) look the same when set either way. So this isn't an issue. It's 1080i signals that are the problem. The 6412 has a very poor deinterlacer. It's quite evident because the picture looks soft. I had a Phase II box and it was the same way. Leave it set to 1080i for all HD content.

If one truly wants to avoid the 6412's processing, then they would not want to simply leave it set to 1080i. Your issue is with the 6412's deinterlacer. The deinterlacer is not used on 720p material.

Furthermore, if you have a 720p station such as Fox HD and a 720p display, leaving the 6412 on 1080i would then cause the 6412 to scale the signal to 1080i, and then your display would be forced to deinterlace the signal and then scale it a second time, back to 720p. So instead it the STB was set to 720p for this broadcast, the display would get a native signal by having it in 720p mode, which would then not need to be scaled at all or deinterlaced at all...

Bottom line is this... If you do not have confidence in the 6412's processing, and feel your display provides higher quality in this regard (or you use an external scaler), then you want to have it set to 720p for stations that broadcast in 720p, and 1080i for stations that broadcast in 1080i.

In any event, the best thing to do is to spend some time trying it both ways for various stations/material and picking the set up that looks the best.

umm.. how do you set the stb to 720p and 1080i? where is the option? anyone know off hand?

umm.. how do you set the stb to 720p and 1080i? where is the option? anyone know off hand?

With your remote in CABLE mode, press POWER, next press MENU. Move down to output and use the right arrow button to change it to what you would like. Press the POWER button to turn the box back on. You're all set.

I have the Sony kdf-42we655 lcd rptv conntected to my 6412 phase iii stb via component cable.

Couple of thoughts --

With my stb set to 1080i, CBS material looks fantastic. With the stb set to 720p, CBS looks grainy.

With my stb set to 1080i, Detroit Pistons games on WDWB (1080i signal) look grainy and even a little stuttering can be seen. When I switch my stb to 720p, PQ improves with a smooth picture.

Last night was an interesting night for me as I was able to watch the Pistons in HD on ESPN, WDWB via Comcast stb, and WDWB via direct coax connection to my tv from the wall. I have my main line into the living split at the floor with a line to the stb and a line directly to my tv).

I found that my best PQ came from the ESPN 720p source with my stb set at 720p. With the stb set at 1080i, the WDWB broadcast looked sluggish and grainy.

Not sure what to draw from all of this except that I wish it was easier to change the setting on the stb...

I have the Sony kdf-42we655 lcd rptv conntected to my 6412 phase iii stb via component cable.

Couple of thoughts --

With my stb set to 1080i, CBS material looks fantastic. With the stb set to 720p, CBS looks grainy.

With my stb set to 1080i, Detroit Pistons games on WDWB (1080i signal) look grainy and even a little stuttering can be seen. When I switch my stb to 720p, PQ improves with a smooth picture.

Last night was an interesting night for me as I was able to watch the Pistons in HD on ESPN, WDWB via Comcast stb, and WDWB via direct coax connection to my tv from the wall. I have my main line into the living split at the floor with a line to the stb and a line directly to my tv).

I found that my best PQ came from the ESPN 720p source with my stb set at 720p. With the stb set at 1080i, the WDWB broadcast looked sluggish and grainy.

Not sure what to draw from all of this except that I wish it was easier to change the setting on the stb...

Very interesting, but confusing! When I tried outputting 720p and 1080i from my 6412III to my Mits 73727 (1080p dlp), even for ESPN (720p) I found the PQ to be better with 1080i rather than 720p, counter to what I expected (but which you observe). ???

I understand that my tv has the capability to display 1080i signals because it has a resolution of 1386x788. Hence, I presumed that 1080i would look even better than 720p. Not the case, however. I've chalked it up to the interlaced versus progressive. Regular, non-sports 1080i programming looks exceptional on my tv, better than 720p. But sports programming, 720p clearly, imo on my tv, bests 1080i. Like I said...I wish it was easier to change the stb output...I wonder if my Harmony 676 can create a macro for that??? Hmmmm...

bobby94928 Thank You! anyone know of a list of stations and the resolutions they support?

Fox, ABC and ESPN are 720P, all the rest are 1080I.

Very interesting, but confusing! When I tried outputting 720p and 1080i from my 6412III to my Mits 73727 (1080p dlp), even for ESPN (720p) I found the PQ to be better with 1080i rather than 720p, counter to what I expected (but which you observe). ???
Yeah Bill, I would have expected the same as you did. But others here are experiencing the same thing: that 1080i output to 1080p sets (mine is an SXRD) is the best option, even on 720p broadcasts. Seems strange. Is it possible that the scaler/deinterlacer is actually better in the 6412 than we thought? What specific differences are you noticing? Did you do the comparo using fast-moving sports action? I am hosting a SuperBowl party, and I am debating whether to go with 720 or 1080 out of my 6412PIII.
Chris

Yeah Bill, I would have expected the same as you did. But others here are experiencing the same thing: that 1080i output to 1080p sets (mine is an SXRD) is the best option, even on 720p broadcasts. Seems strange. Is it possible that the scaler/deinterlacer is actually better in the 6412 than we thought? What specific differences are you noticing? Did you do the comparo using fast-moving sports action? I am hosting a SuperBowl party, and I am debating whether to go with 720 or 1080 out of my 6412PIII.
Chris

I didn't find the difference (between 1080i and 720p output from the stb) to be dramatic, but definitely noticeable: the 1080i output was just clearer, sharper features being discernible. I attribute this (without any technical knowledge!) to these '1080p' sets being optomized to accept 1080i input and converit it to 1080p output

I didn't find the difference (between 1080i and 720p output from the stb) to be dramatic, but definitely noticeable: the 1080i output was just clearer, sharper features being discernible. I attribute this (without any technical knowledge!) to these '1080p' sets being optomized to accept 1080i input and converit it to 1080p output
Bill, to take your theory a bit further:
Even if the sets are optimized for a 1080i signal, if the 6412 does a crappy job of converting the 720p signal to a 1080i signal, then the tv is out of luck...garbage in, garbage out, so to speak. Which leads me to believe that the 6412 actually does a decent job of this conversion...

Bill, to take your theory a bit further:
Even if the sets are optimized for a 1080i signal, if the 6412 does a crappy job of converting the 720p signal to a 1080i signal, then the tv is out of luck...garbage in, garbage out, so to speak. Which leads me to believe that the 6412 actually does a decent job of this conversion...

What you say certainly makes sense.

I honestly think that with my 720P dlp, setting the stb to 1080i produces the better picture. I set the stb to output 720P and was watching the college basketball game on ESPN and I thought the picture was not as sharp. I left the setting how it was and then watched the first 15 minutes of 24 on FOX (another 720P station) and I thought the PQ was OK. I switched back to 1080i during the commercial break and I thought it was better. I would like to watch the SuperBowl in the best PQ possible and I think I will leave it at 1080i as that’s how I’ve had it all year. I really thought that the ESPN Sunday night game produced the best PQ. ABC is ok, but I thought some of their college bowl games were sub par. So I guess it’s safe to assume that the scaler in the moto iii is pretty good? You would think it would be the other way around. I’m obsessed with trying to get the best PQ out of my set its nerve racking. I think I might get my set ISF calibrated.

The signal might be 720p from FOX-HD, ABC-HD, etc., but the cable company most likely is upconverting the signal to 1080i with their own sophisticated equipment before it's sent out to your cable box. This is the reason I suggest using 1080i over 720p unless you can see a difference. It's either 1080i (most likely) or 720p with cable from my understanding. Not both.

This thread is getting totally off topic. Can we get back on topic?

Has anyone been able to get a eSATA drive to work with this unit? I can not find any info on Motorola's site. I am a Time Warner customer in Philadelphia and cannot get a straight answer from my cable company.

Any help would be great.

Thanks.

How are we being off topic? If I have ???’s regarding my stb w/ sata I should be able to ask them here. If there is another area where I can ask questions regarding set ups, tweaks, and the ins & outs of my moto pahse III w/ sata let me know.

This thread is getting totally off topic. Can we get back on topic?

Has anyone been able to get a eSATA drive to work with this unit? I can not find any info on Motorola's site. I am a Time Warner customer in Philadelphia and cannot get a straight answer from my cable company.

Any help would be great.

Thanks.

Somewhere here I read Comcast has no intention to activate SATA ever, I don't know that about TW.

I have the 6412 III with Comcast Cable in San Francisco. I have a brand new Denon 4306 receiver with 3 into 1 HDMI switching capabilities. The HDMI from the 6412 works fine when it is connected directly to my display (Panny 900), but when I go through the receiver, I get blue flickering. Based on posts from the 4306 thread on this site, it appears that the 6412 needs a software/firmware upgrade in order to complete the HDMI handshake with the 4306. I emailed Comcast, and they said I should call support. I called support at Comcast and of course they had no idea what I was talking about, but said it was not their problem but they would look into it.

Has anyone gotten HDMI from the 6412 to work through any other components like HDMI switches or repeaters?

Who should I contact in order to get this resolved? Comcast? Denon? Motorola?

I have the 6412 III with Comcast Cable in San Francisco. I have a brand new Denon 4306 receiver with 3 into 1 HDMI switching capabilities. The HDMI from the 6412 works fine when it is connected directly to my display (Panny 900), but when I go through the receiver, I get blue flickering. Based on posts from the 4306 thread on this site, it appears that the 6412 needs a software/firmware upgrade in order to complete the HDMI handshake with the 4306. I emailed Comcast, and they said I should call support. I called support at Comcast and of course they had no idea what I was talking about, but said it was not their problem but they would look into it.

Has anyone gotten HDMI from the 6412 to work through any other components like HDMI switches or repeaters?

Who should I contact in order to get this resolved? Comcast? Denon? Motorola?

I've been looking for the answer to this question for the last few days. Here's what my research has turned up so far.
1. The issue is that HDMI connections use a content protection method called HDCP.
2. HDCP requires that all devices in the chain be HDCP-compliant, or it won't work.
3. The Motorola DCT 6412 does NOT support a repeater between it and the TV.
4. Rumor has it that this issue is resolved in firmware update 12.22. However, I can not find ANY official announcement to this effect from Motorola, Adelphia, Comcast, or any other cable provider.
5. Supposedly some 6412s have been updated to 12.22, but no one who claims to have that update has tested HDMI/HDCP connections through a repeater, they were interested in the infamous DD5.1 --> PCM bug. If there is anyone out there with 12.22, and in a position to test HDMI/HDCP repeating, I'd love to hear about it.
6. Whether or not you can get 12.22 depends entirely upon your cable company and when they decide to roll it out to their subscribers.

I played with HDMI and component connections today. Using HDMI directly to my TV gave me an excellent picture on the HD channels. I watched a re-run of a hockey game and was amazed that I could actually follow the puck! However, the standard channels looked horrible. I found that in my case, component provides the best overall quality for all channels.

According to the HDMI website, two advantages of using HDMI is that the TV and the signal source (i.e. the 6412) are supposed to communicate and select the best resolution (480i, 720p, 1080i, and so on) for your combination of channel and TV. In my brief test this morning, I didn't see that occuring. I'll give this another try when I get some free time.

The other advantage is that any remote for an HDMI device will function for ALL devices in the HDMI chain. I couldn't make that happen either. Methinks HDMI has been a bit overhyped. <grin>

Oh, jumping back to my earlier question on Firewire usefulness? I found out that Firewire has enough bandwith to handle standard channels, but it does NOT have enough bandwith to transfer HD content. I think that is why an earlier reply noted that when he used Firewire, the 6412 didn't work smoothly. If anyone's interested I can probably find the graph that showed bandwith requirements vs. connection method. It pretty much puts HDMI at the top of the list, and Firewire down near the bottom. Win some, lose more.

--- John B.

I have the 6412 III with Comcast Cable in San Francisco. I have a brand new Denon 4306 receiver with 3 into 1 HDMI switching capabilities. The HDMI from the 6412 works fine when it is connected directly to my display (Panny 900), but when I go through the receiver, I get blue flickering. Based on posts from the 4306 thread on this site, it appears that the 6412 needs a software/firmware upgrade in order to complete the HDMI handshake with the 4306. I emailed Comcast, and they said I should call support. I called support at Comcast and of course they had no idea what I was talking about, but said it was not their problem but they would look into it.

Has anyone gotten HDMI from the 6412 to work through any other components like HDMI switches or repeaters?

Who should I contact in order to get this resolved? Comcast? Denon? Motorola?

I would go after Denon, though I happen to know their support sucks (I needed the remote control configuration software for my 4802 and had to raise a ruckus to get anyone to help me - what, you want a little support for a $2500 receiver?).

Anyway, given that you know the 6412 and your TV can do HDMI (at least well enough to work), you can play the dummy and tell Denon that their receiver doesn't do the right thing (though we all know it's probably more complicated than that).

I found out that Firewire has enough bandwith to handle standard channels, but it does NOT have enough bandwith to transfer HD content. I think that is why an earlier reply noted that when he used Firewire, the 6412 didn't work smoothly. If anyone's interested I can probably find the graph that showed bandwith requirements vs. connection method. It pretty much puts HDMI at the top of the list, and Firewire down near the bottom. Win some, lose more.I would like to see that graph. I use FireWire constantly for connection between my DVHS and Qualia 006. In this example the throughput is quite high, as DVHS uses less compression than regular HDTV. The ONLY downside of a FireWire connection -- in this example -- is that it does not support on-screen menus. A very nice feature of FireWire is that you can control any device in the chain directly through the TV. This is very well-implemented and works extremely well...

I would go after Denon, though I happen to know their support sucks (I needed the remote control configuration software for my 4802 and had to raise a ruckus to get anyone to help me - what, you want a little support for a $2500 receiver?).

It's not Denon's problem - it's the 6412's crappy implementation (or non-implementation, I'm not sure) of HDCP.

Oh, jumping back to my earlier question on Firewire usefulness? I found out that Firewire has enough bandwith to handle standard channels, but it does NOT have enough bandwith to transfer HD content. I think that is why an earlier reply noted that when he used Firewire, the 6412 didn't work smoothly. If anyone's interested I can probably find the graph that showed bandwith requirements vs. connection method. It pretty much puts HDMI at the top of the list, and Firewire down near the bottom. Win some, lose more.

Hm, that's strange. I'm able to transfer HD content from the 6412 to my Mac Mini without a problem over firewire. I believe firewire is 400Mbps - while mpeg-2 encoded HDTV generally peaks around 30Mbps.

...
Oh, jumping back to my earlier question on Firewire usefulness? I found out that Firewire has enough bandwith to handle standard channels, but it does NOT have enough bandwith to transfer HD content. I think that is why an earlier reply noted that when he used Firewire, the 6412 didn't work smoothly. If anyone's interested I can probably find the graph that showed bandwith requirements vs. connection method. It pretty much puts HDMI at the top of the list, and Firewire down near the bottom. Win some, lose more.
--- John B.
Perhaps this is already known, but HDMI is uncompressed video, while, according to my understanding, Firewire transports a compressed signal, at least for HD, which should be no problem for it. There's no way a 400 or 800 Mbps rate can handle uncompressed HD, so HDMI and Firewire are really intended to be used in different ways, and any comparison needs to take that into account. If Firewire video is sent to your TV, the TV then has to do the decompression; if sent to a recorder, the recorder can record the compressed signal and doesn't have to do compression.

One could conjecture, then, that the 6412 should only have to pass the (already) compressed signal out Firewire, and if the other outputs are disabled, should not have to do any decompression and scaling, resulting in a much lighter work load. If the other outputs are enabled, it's got a bit of extra work to do. In my experience, the 6412 is either underpowered, or the software is very poor, such that it cannot keep up with playing HD material in a number of cases (such as when updating the program guide).

It's not Denon's problem - it's the 6412's crappy implementation (or non-implementation, I'm not sure) of HDCP.
As an engineer who has implemented and debugged communication protocols and implementations, here's my take - if the 6412 and a given TV can successfully negotiate HDCP between each other (which is true of my 6412 and Westinghouse LVM-37w1), then you would naively expect the Denon, when put in between them, to correctly negotiate with the TV and correctly negotiate with the 6412, and all should be happy in the world.
However, it's certainly possible that the 6412's implementation is poor, such that it negotiates correctly only with some devices by luck, or maybe the protocol itself changes if there's a switch (the Denon) in the chain (if so - bad protocol!), and the 6412 doesn't do that right, but the first question, without knowing more, is why a problem occurs when the Denon is put in the chain. I'm no fan of the 6412 - I think its software is horrible. I'm also not a fan of Denon software, or at least the software in my 4802.
All that said, I haven't read this whole thread - maybe this HDMI/HDCP problem has already been pinned on the 6412.
I should point out, to avoid confusion, that I'm not the one with the HDMI/HDCP problem - my Denon is too old to do HDMI switching.
Speaking of the 6412, Comcast called while I was writing this - they're bringing a replacement unit in a few minutes since ours is crapping out so much. Grrr. Better go pull the equipment rack out from the wall...

At least in my setup I have a DVDO iScan VP30 in-between my 6412 P3 and my Mits DLP, and it works, except for the PCM-only bug (I'm on 12.18 I think.) So even if the 6412's HDMI+HDCP implementation is flawed and/or weak, at least one vendor has been able to make it work as expected with their device in the middle -- and not just acting as a hub, but a full-blown scaler with video and audio (delay) processing to boot.

So I'd certainly push back to Denon on that issue. Can't hurt.

-John

... then you would naively expect the Denon, when put in between them, to correctly negotiate with the TV and correctly negotiate with the 6412...

The issue is that there are actually three types of devices in the HDCP protocol - the Transmitter (the 6412), the Receiver (the TV), and the Repeater (the Denon, or any other switch/repeater). I won't quote the spec (which can be found at http://www.digital-cp.com/home/HDCPSpecificationRev1_1.pdf ), but there is an additional set of procedures that occur if there is a Repeater downstream from the Transmitter. The Repeater has to assemble a list of all the downstream Receivers, which is forwarded to the Transmitter.

The way I understand the process (and I'm definitely a layman in this process, so my understanding my be incorrect), a unique encryption key is generated for each device downstream. If the Transmitter incorrectly calculates the key, ie. it sends the signal encrypted for the Repeater, not the Receiver, then you have issues. I don't know if that's exactly what's happening in this situation, but given that there is anecdotal evidence on forums of other HDMI switches/receivers not working with the 6412, it leads me to believe that it's the 6412 that's at fault.

Hm, that's strange. I'm able to transfer HD content from the 6412 to my Mac Mini without a problem over firewire. I believe firewire is 400Mbps - while mpeg-2 encoded HDTV generally peaks around 30Mbps.And, of course, the Mac offers (on some models) both FireWire 400 and FireWire 800...

And, of course, the Mac offers (on some models) both FireWire 400 and FireWire 800...

Well I have transfered HD from the 6412 to my PC using a Firewire card and it doesn't use the 800 spec.

Over in the HTPC thread there has been much discussion of transfering HD to a PC. Many people have been sucsessful and they're not using Firewire 800.

My only problem has been my CPU is underpowered for playing back the file (1.6Ghz).

And whoever said the HD signal out of the 6412 isn't compressed doesn't know what to look for. I've seen uncompressed HD and it doesn't look anything like what we're getting, even over the air.

Has anyone been able to get a SATA drive to work with the 6412?

Has anyone been able to get a SATA drive to work with the 6412?

Not on a Comcast System, The SATA port is DISABLED and there is no Drivers installed in the STB software / Firmware at this time. Comcast has suspended there plans of supporting the SATA port and also there plans of renting external Hard Drives....

When you set the 6412 to output 1080i through the HDMI, does the box output ALL programs in 1080i (like SD programs?) Or is that only for HD shows?

The reason I ask is I'm thinking about getting a pioneer plasma, but you can only get black sidebars if the signal is 720p or 1080i. I need those bars not to be gray!

I honestly think that with my 720P dlp, setting the stb to 1080i produces the better picture. I set the stb to output 720P and was watching the college basketball game on ESPN and I thought the picture was not as sharp. I left the setting how it was and then watched the first 15 minutes of 24 on FOX (another 720P station) and I thought the PQ was OK. I switched back to 1080i during the commercial break and I thought it was better. I would like to watch the SuperBowl in the best PQ possible and I think I will leave it at 1080i as that’s how I’ve had it all year. I really thought that the ESPN Sunday night game produced the best PQ. ABC is ok, but I thought some of their college bowl games were sub par. So I guess it’s safe to assume that the scaler in the moto iii is pretty good? You would think it would be the other way around. I’m obsessed with trying to get the best PQ out of my set its nerve racking. I think I might get my set ISF calibrated.

I need those bars not to be gray!


AFAIK, if a show is broadcast 16:9 but the picture they're sending is 4:3, the station itself puts bars on the sides to fill in the full 16:9 picture. Sometimes they use grey bars. One of the local Los Angeles stations does this during the local news.

It's not Denon's problem - it's the 6412's crappy implementation (or non-implementation, I'm not sure) of HDCP.

I spoke to Denon today-- people have already reported the problem, and they insist a firmware upgrade by Comcast is needed. I checked my box, and it is on version 12.18. I wonder if 12.22 will fix this. I called Comcast to request version .22 and I was told it will come when it comes.

Cameron, what version are you on?

Cameron, what version are you on?

Unfortunately I'm traveling in India until mid-week next week - so I'm not able to check.

When you set the 6412 to output 1080i through the HDMI, does the box output ALL programs in 1080i (like SD programs?) Or is that only for HD shows?

The reason I ask is I'm thinking about getting a pioneer plasma, but you can only get black sidebars if the signal is 720p or 1080i. I need those bars not to be gray!

In the user settings menu (power off, press Menu) there are settings for non HD signals. Also most TV's have a streatch or Zoom mode to get rid of the widescreen bars.

This thread is getting totally off topic. Can we get back on topic?

Has anyone been able to get a eSATA drive to work with this unit? I can not find any info on Motorola's site. I am a Time Warner customer in Philadelphia and cannot get a straight answer from my cable company.

Any help would be great.

Thanks.No,it
does not work and Moto has no plan in the future for it to work.It is strictly up to your cable service provider. Comcast,for one, has demonstrated they will not support.

I spoke to Denon today-- people have already reported the problem, and they insist a firmware upgrade by Comcast is needed. I checked my box, and it is on version 12.18. I wonder if 12.22 will fix this. I called Comcast to request version .22 and I was told it will come when it comes.


Count me in as another victim in the Motorola/Denon hdmi problem. I asked people in the Denon 3806 thread if 12.22 fixes the problem, but my question was ignored.

I also contacted Comcast in my area to volunteer to beta-test any future firmware at home or outright loan my whole setup for bench tests on this blasted hdmi issue. I was dismissed with the same "it will come when it comes" response. Grrr.

Has anyone been able to get a SATA drive to work with the 6412?

I asked the Moto people at CES whether any of their customers had asked them to enable the ability to hook up an external drive. The answer was "NO". It didn't sound like any such ability was on the horizon. As an aside, one of the reps said something like "it doesn't take long to run out of space, does it?".

...mike

As an aside, one of the reps said something like "it doesn't take long to run out of space, does it?".



And yet no one has ever asked them to enable the port. Right.
Anyone besides me ever notice that these connections and ports "for future use", never seem to get enabled?

I asked the Moto people at CES whether any of their customers had asked them to enable the ability to hook up an external drive. The answer was "NO". It didn't sound like any such ability was on the horizon. As an aside, one of the reps said something like "it doesn't take long to run out of space, does it?".

...mike

FWIW, Moto has nothing to do with it. All of The STB have the ability as long as the feature is turned on in the Firmware via the Head End, and the drivers have been added into the software / firmware of the box. I have seen both a 6412 & a 3412 with the SATA port enabled and with a external drive. Some of my former coworkers (techs) had it up and running in the test room at one of the Comcast plants. Comcast was working on renting external Hard Drives, however there has been a lot of presure from other organizations, and this caused all plans to support the HD & Sata port to be suspended. Now Comcast systems that use the SA STB, have a working SATA port, and are currently not included in this. Only the Moto DCT series STB.

I spoke to Denon today-- people have already reported the problem, and they insist a firmware upgrade by Comcast is needed. I checked my box, and it is on version 12.18. I wonder if 12.22 will fix this. I called Comcast to request version .22 and I was told it will come when it comes.

Cameron, what version are you on?

My 6412 Phase III on RCN cable in Eastern PA indicates firmware version 12.27. That is the latest firmware ver I have seen reference to.

My 6412 Phase III on RCN cable in Eastern PA indicates firmware version 12.27. That is the latest firmware ver I have seen reference to.
So now the comcast customers are at least TWO versoins behind schedule! :mad:

FWIW, Moto has nothing to do with it. All of The STB have the ability as long as the feature is turned on in the Firmware via the Head End...

If this is true, why didn't "the Moto people at CES", just say that (or, I don't know)?

When you set the 6412 to output 1080i through the HDMI, does the box output ALL programs in 1080i (like SD programs?) Or is that only for HD shows?

The reason I ask is I'm thinking about getting a pioneer plasma, but you can only get black sidebars if the signal is 720p or 1080i. I need those bars not to be gray!

Squiredogs,

I have a Pioneer plasma... The side bars are grey on the SD channels, but I use the Cinema mode that stretches to fit the screen. This way looks good on the Digital Channels, but grainy on the Analog channels. Now I am waiting for Digital Simulcast.

When the HD channels broadcasting a SD (4:3) signal, the sidebars are black.

JayMan.

When you set the 6412 to output 1080i through the HDMI, does the box output ALL programs in 1080i (like SD programs?) Or is that only for HD shows?

The reason I ask is I'm thinking about getting a pioneer plasma, but you can only get black sidebars if the signal is 720p or 1080i. I need those bars not to be gray!
The HDMI output uses the same settings as the YPbPr settings. That also includes the 4:3 override setting. You can configure the box so that 4:3 (SD) material is sent as 480i, 480p, or stretch (YPbPr setting, but stretched). When set to off, it is sent at the YPbPr setting, but pillarboxed on the sides.

Also, if the box is configured to send SD as 480i or 480p, the TV may be set to use one of the zoom/stretch settings if you like that sort of thing.

I would like to see that graph. I use FireWire constantly for connection between my DVHS and Qualia 006. In this example the throughput is quite high, as DVHS uses less compression than regular HDTV. The ONLY downside of a FireWire connection -- in this example -- is that it does not support on-screen menus. A very nice feature of FireWire is that you can control any device in the chain directly through the TV. This is very well-implemented and works extremely well...

I apologize for the delay in replying, I had a lot of trouble re-finding the page with the graph! I've tried to post it here several times, but the forum software won't permit posts with URLs in them until I have made five posts. Google on the text below and click the first hit on the list:
"Hometheaterhifi" "Brian Weatherhead" "The Digital Link"


Look at the second graph on the page, it shows bandwidth available vs. bandwidth needed, and the author stresses that it is for uncompressed data only.

There is no bandwidth issue when copying a recorded program to a computer, because that doesn't have to happen in realtime. The concern is when you are transmitting HD content in realtime from a settop box or DVD player to a TV. For my needs, I think I'll stick with Component and not use FireWire. I can see myself using FireWire at some point to save a recorded show to my PowerBook, but I'll cross that bridge when I need to.

--- John B.

The way I understand the process (and I'm definitely a layman in this process, so my understanding my be incorrect), a unique encryption key is generated for each device downstream. If the Transmitter incorrectly calculates the key, ie. it sends the signal encrypted for the Repeater, not the Receiver, then you have issues. I don't know if that's exactly what's happening in this situation, but given that there is anecdotal evidence on forums of other HDMI switches/receivers not working with the 6412, it leads me to believe that it's the 6412 that's at fault.

Aha! This makes sense to me now. When I try the STB -> Home Theater -> TV connection, I get audio on the Home Theater and a green screen on the TV (preceded by a message saying that the 6412 doesn't support repeaters). This means that the encryption is working between the 6412 and the Home Theater, but not between the 6412 and TV. My bet is that the 6412 software is limited to generating and using only one key. To work with a repeater means it has to generate two keys and encrypt audio with one key and video with another. Not trivial.

Thanks for providing another piece to the puzzle!

--- John B.

My 6412 Phase III on RCN cable in Eastern PA indicates firmware version 12.27. That is the latest firmware ver I have seen reference to.

How are you connecting to a TV and/or home theater? Is it possible for you to test an HDMI connection from 6412 -> home theater -> TV? I'd really like to know if this is possible.

I e-mailed Adelphia support to ask them about the HDMI connection issue and if 12.22 actually does solve the problem, and the response I got back boiled down to "I can't comment on that."

Win some, lose more.

--- John B.

There is no bandwidth issue when copying a recorded program to a computer, because that doesn't have to happen in realtime.
--- John B.


This confuses me. When I transfer HD programming to my PC through Firewire, I have to play the program on the 6412 - in real time.

How are you connecting to a TV and/or home theater? Is it possible for you to test an HDMI connection from 6412 -> home theater -> TV? I'd really like to know if this is possible.

I e-mailed Adelphia support to ask them about the HDMI connection issue and if 12.22 actually does solve the problem, and the response I got back boiled down to "I can't comment on that."

Win some, lose more.

--- John B.

It solves some of the problems.

Moto DCT series STB F/W 12.27 is now in beta and that should have some of the HDMI issues on the STB side resolved. -no promises though!-

New user of a 6412 phase 3 issued by Adelphia in Frederick MD. Firmware is 12.20.

The box does have the previously discussed "mute" issue when waking up to do timed recordings.

I am unable as yet to reprogram the remote, as the instructions posted here are for a 6412 that comes with a Comcast-branded remote; my remote is Adelphia-branded and doesn't have a "setup" key. It also doesn't look like the Comcast remote as depicted in photos posted here. Any place to find information on this remote and programming thereof?

I've read that leaving the front display of the 6412 powered up prevents the mute issue from occuring. That's fine, but has anyone figured out a way to "unmute" the box if it is accidently allowed to go into its mute condition? Short of powering the box down, I mean.

New user of a 6412 phase 3 issued by Adelphia in Frederick MD. Firmware is 12.20.

The box does have the previously discussed "mute" issue when waking up to do timed recordings.

I am unable as yet to reprogram the remote, as the instructions posted here are for a 6412 that comes with a Comcast-branded remote; my remote is Adelphia-branded and doesn't have a "setup" key. It also doesn't look like the Comcast remote as depicted in photos posted here. Any place to find information on this remote and programming thereof?

I've read that leaving the front display of the 6412 powered up prevents the mute issue from occuring. That's fine, but has anyone figured out a way to "unmute" the box if it is accidently allowed to go into its mute condition? Short of powering the box down, I mean.

All of the Moto DCT series STB use the same IR codes. so you have 2 choices:

1) A universal remote that can do the STB mute feature, or order a comcast silver remote. Price is on the page the link goes to.

http://store.jce123.com/remotes/ComcastURC_1067_ABG1_02.php

Any external storage options?

I'm a comcast customer in Costa Mesa, CA. I just got a series III with the HDMI and SATA ports. I've read most of this thread and it appears that with Comcast, there's no hope (currently) of getting SATA to work.

However, what about Firewire or USB? The box has two firewire ports on it, can I hook up a firewire drive for external storage? When I first signed up for the service, the installer that hooked up my non-DVR box said that you could hook up an external hard drive to the DVR units. I don't really care if it's SATA, just need more storage space.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Any external storage options?

I'm a comcast customer in Costa Mesa, CA. I just got a series III with the HDMI and SATA ports. I've read most of this thread and it appears that with Comcast, there's no hope (currently) of getting SATA to work.

However, what about Firewire or USB? The box has two firewire ports on it, can I hook up a firewire drive for external storage? When I first signed up for the service, the installer that hooked up my non-DVR box said that you could hook up an external hard drive to the DVR units. I don't really care if it's SATA, just need more storage space.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Via Comcast there is No External Hard Drive as a option in the Moto DCT Series STB. Comcast had plans in the fall of 2005 to support and install the missing software code / firmware drivers needed to allow use of external HD via the SATA port, and also to rent External HD.

However those plans have been shelved for the current future. :mad:

Any external storage options? However, what about Firewire or USB? The box has two firewire ports on it, can I hook up a firewire drive for external storage?
I am wondering if someone out there in the PC world could look at the following file. It is supposed to be a FireWire driver for the 6412 that enables the FireWire output. I have absolutely NO idea if this actually works or not... 6412: FireWire drivers (http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/motorola6412_firewire.zip)

I am wondering if someone out there in the PC world could look at the following file. It is supposed to be a FireWire driver for the 6412 that enables the FireWire output. I have absolutely NO idea if this actually works or not... 6412: FireWire drivers (http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/motorola6412_firewire.zip)

Those look like the drivers for a computer that allow you to record via firewire whatever your watching on the Moto DCT series STB. I have only tried that 1 time and have long since removed the drivers for it...

There is no way that a user of the Moto DCT series STB, can add or remove drivers, firmware or software from the STB, it can only be done via the head end cable plant, and the chance of that happening is slim to non existant....

Those look like the drivers for a computer that allow you to record via firewire whatever your watching on the Moto DCT series STB. I have only tried that 1 time and have long since removed the drivers for it...Ahhh... got it. Thanks!

I recently connected a 6412 phase 3 DVR that is supplied by Adelphia in Frederick Maryland. The remote that comes with it is different from what many folks who post here have (Comcast-supplied), so most, if not all of the programming advice posted seems to not apply as the Adelphia remote doesn't have a "Setup" button.

Any clues as to what button on the Adelphia remote might map to the Comcast "Setup" button?

Any Adelphia-specific remote tips that I can use?
.
Full Size Photo (upright; external link) (http://www.windinthetrees.com/AdelphiaRemoteFull.jpg)
.
.

My 6412 III Mediacom supplied box came with yet a different remote. I found no way to change it's behaviour regarding the 30 second advance function. I did purchase a Harmony 680 remote which does handle very well the DVR mute and 30 second advance.

I recently connected a 6412 phase 3 DVR that is supplied by Adelphia in Frederick Maryland. The remote that comes with it is different from what many folks who post here have (Comcast-supplied), so most, if not all of the programming advice posted seems to not apply as the Adelphia remote doesn't have a "Setup" button.

Any clues as to what button on the Adelphia remote might map to the Comcast "Setup" button?

Any Adelphia-specific remote tips that I can use?
.
Full Size Photo (upright; external link) (http://www.windinthetrees.com/AdelphiaRemoteFull.jpg)
.
.

buy a comcast silver remote.

http://store.jce123.com/remotes/Com...067_ABG1_02.php

$12.00 + S/H

buy a comcast silver remote. That would be one solution.

Any others that allow me to work with the tools I have?

That would be one solution.

Any others that allow me to work with the tools I have?It's kinda hard to program a non-programable remote.

It's kinda hard to program a non-programable remote.Other than my not finding instructions here for the Adelphia-supplied remote (as the discussion here appears to focus on Comcast-supplied equipment), would you be so kind as to point me towards something that says the Adelphia remote is non-programmable.

The booklet that comes with the remote has codes and procedures for programming the remote to recognize and control various brands of TVs and VCRs, so it appears there is some level of programmability available. The booklet doesn't have instructions for, as an example, enabling 30-second skip for what might be obvious reasons.

Perhaps the remote can do it, perhaps not.

Other than my not finding instructions here for the Adelphia-supplied remote (as the discussion here appears to focus on Comcast-supplied equipment), would you be so kind as to point me towards something that says the Adelphia remote is non-programmable.

The booklet that comes with the remote has codes and procedures for programming the remote to recognize and control various brands of TVs and VCRs, so it appears there is some level of programmability available. The booklet doesn't have instructions for, as an example, enabling 30-second skip for what might be obvious reasons.

Perhaps the remote can do it, perhaps not.There's a difference between a "universal" remote which has preprogrammed codes for a variety of different devices and one which can be programmed with custom IR codes. If you can find a way to do it, more power to you, but no one has reported doing so.

Other than my not finding instructions here for the Adelphia-supplied remote (as the discussion here appears to focus on Comcast-supplied equipment), would you be so kind as to point me towards something that says the Adelphia remote is non-programmable.

The booklet that comes with the remote has codes and procedures for programming the remote to recognize and control various brands of TVs and VCRs, so it appears there is some level of programmability available. The booklet doesn't have instructions for, as an example, enabling 30-second skip for what might be obvious reasons.

Perhaps the remote can do it, perhaps not.

Can you give us the remote model number and who makes it? Look for any numbers and letters on the back cover, or inside the battery compartment.

Doing a google search and looking on Adelphia's cable website. I have found nothing... :mad:

If you can find a way to do it, more power to you, but no one has reported doing so. Doing a search of this discussion thread for the key word "Adelphia" returns all of 24 hits, more than a few of which are my recent postings requesting information.

I realize that no one has previously reported success here with programming an Adelphia-supplied remote, but couldn't that simply mean that almost no one here HAS one to try to work on? Lack of reported success due to no data doesn't imply that programming is impossible.

Thank you for your time in responding to my requests.

Can you give us the remote model number and who makes it? Look for any numbers and letters on the back cover, or inside the battery compartment. Thanks for offering some information that moves the conversation forward.

Looking in the battery compartment first shows a sticker with the number "10". I have arbitrarily decided that it is the "Inspected By" sticker. :)

Removing the batteries shows a sticker with a much longer number on it: 05.38.39.40.41. Wrong numbers to be a clue to an episode of "LOST", so perhaps they might tell us something about the remote! :)

Does anyone in this thread know if the Moto 6412 Phase III is available from Adelphia cable in Loudoun County, VA?

I recently switched from Dish (due to the 942 fiasco) and was given the 6412 p2...I'd prefer the p3 for HDMI (so I don't have to waste $$$ on a DVI cable or adapter) and improved SD quality. I've called the CSR phone reps, but of course they are no help and won't connect me with the local distro...I'm trying to save myself from a drive out there and the ensuing painful conversation with a disenchanted clerk.

Thanks for the help.

I heard they will be available starting Feb 1, so I have an appointment for tomorrow. I will keep you posted.

That would be one solution.

Any others that allow me to work with the tools I have?
Better yet, get one of the One-For-All series of remotes. They are made by the same company that makes the Comcast remote, and it uses the same codes. The URC-6131n (or 63131nw at WalMart) is the most DVR friendly. Some models can be modified, are already configured, so you can program them with your computer.

Doing a search of this discussion thread for the key word "Adelphia" returns all of 24 hits, more than a few of which are my recent postings requesting information.

I realize that no one has previously reported success here with programming an Adelphia-supplied remote, but couldn't that simply mean that almost no one here HAS one to try to work on? Lack of reported success due to no data doesn't imply that programming is impossible.

Thank you for your time in responding to my requests.I'm glad you can actually use the search function, since some seem to be limited in that respect. And of course, as you say, lack of reported success does not imply impossibility. Lack of success (so far) in getting my remote to fetch me a beer doesn't imply impossibility either. However, since the vast majority of remote controls do not have the capability to accept numeric codes for specific functions, I really think you may have to pony up the 12 bucks to buy one that does.

Good luck in your quest though; for the sake of all the other Adelphia customers out there I hope you prove me wrong.

I heard they will be available starting Feb 1, so I have an appointment for tomorrow. I will keep you posted.

I did get a new phase III box this morning, the analog channels look a little better, but not much. I will also try to connect a coax cable to the RF out (the new III boxes do a have a RF out, the old ones did not) and see if the picture is better then. I will let you know.

Also, the tech did not have different remote, only the same as the original.

If any one needs to know, also no DVI port, just component and HDMI.

I will also try to connect a coax cable to the RF out (the new III boxes do a have a RF out, the old ones did not) and see if the picture is better then. I will let you know.I'm interested in hearing about what you find.

I couldn't get a signal from of the RF out jack on my phase III box -- I was hoping not to have to install another splitter so that the TV could also be connected to the cable wire natively. The "Cable Box Setup" menu has an setting for "RF Bypass -- On or Off", but either setting made no difference -- no output.

Either there is some other setting that needs to be made to activate the RF out jack, it my local cable company has disabled it.

I may be the last to find this, but just so it's noted in this discussion thread for future readers, Wikipedia has an detailed overview on the 6412 box (with much information actually pulled from various places on AVS).

I've already found solutions to several other questions I've had (example: the paragraph titled "Simultaneous series recording cancellation problem, aka whack-a-mole").

It can be found HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6412)

I'm interested in hearing about what you find.

I couldn't get a signal from of the RF out jack on my phase III box -- I was hoping not to have to install another splitter so that the TV could also be connected to the cable wire natively. The "Cable Box Setup" menu has an setting for "RF Bypass -- On or Off", but either setting made no difference -- no output.

Either there is some other setting that needs to be made to activate the RF out jack, it my local cable company has disabled it.

On some STB RF bypass will work when turned on in the settings and when you have the STB turned off. Red light should be on the display when active.

I may be the last to find this, but just so it's noted in this discussion thread for future readers, Wikipedia has an detailed overview on the 6412 box (with much information actually pulled from various places on AVS).

I've already found solutions to several other questions I've had (example: the paragraph titled "Simultaneous series recording cancellation problem, aka whack-a-mole").

It can be found HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6412)

Thanks, several of us have been working on them..... :D

Manufacturer of the mystery Adelphia 6412 remote has been found (thanks dt_dc!!):

U.S. Electronics / ICX model

Manual available here:
http://icxglobal.com/download/files...04%20in%201.pdf

I'm interested in hearing about what you find.

I couldn't get a signal from of the RF out jack on my phase III box -- I was hoping

Either there is some other setting that needs to be made to activate the RF out jack, it my local cable company has disabled it.

I was able to get a signal from the RF port on my box from Adelphia in Loudoun, with no configuration changes. The analog PQ was not really any better via the RF port vs. the component port.

I was able to get a signal from the RF port on my box from Adelphia in Loudoun, with no configuration changes. The analog PQ was not really any better via the RF port vs. the component port.

Is the RF port an actual passthrough of the signal or is it still being processed by the box and a splitter is still needed for a direct signal?

hey guys,
since kttv is 720p, to watch it at 720p, do i have to record it with my cable box set to 720p? or is that just output and it doesn't matter what its set to when it records it? cuz i don't notice a difference when watching at 720p or 1080i with my serise III box with comcast.

Is the RF port an actual passthrough of the signal or is it still being processed by the box and a splitter is still needed for a direct signal?

The signal from the RF port is being process, as in tuned to a channel, by the 6412 III box.

I didn't play with it much, but I assume you can still pause live TV and a view recorded program via the RF port. I will check that and let you know.

The signal from the RF port is being process, as in tuned to a channel, by the 6412 III box.

I didn't play with it much, but I assume you can still pause live TV and a view recorded program via the RF port. I will check that and let you know.But if it's not a passthrough, what's the point of using it at all unless your TV is so old it has no video inputs?

But if it's not a passthrough, what's the point of using it at all unless your TV is so old it has no video inputs?

I had heard that when viewing the analog channels via the 6412 the PQ may be better via the RF port vs. a HD port (component or HDMI). It didn't seem any better to me so it is actually no use to me. But if it had been better then I would not have to switch to the TV tuner to watch analog channels.

I had heard that when viewing the analog channels via the 6412 the PQ may be better via the RF port vs. a HD port (component or HDMI). It didn't seem any better to me so it is actually no use to me. But if it had been better then I would not have to switch to the TV tuner to watch analog channels.Ah. Just out of curiosity, have you tried composite or s-video to see if you notice any difference?

Ah. Just out of curiosity, have you tried composite or s-video to see if you notice any difference?

No I haven't. but I do I will let you know how it goes. I can't imagine that any analog port would display a picture better since the problems is reportedly at the tuner.

But I don't have any clue what goes on in there so that would be my very uneducated opinion.

hey guys,
since kttv is 720p, to watch it at 720p, do i have to record it with my cable box set to 720p? or is that just output and it doesn't matter what its set to when it records it? cuz i don't notice a difference when watching at 720p or 1080i with my serise III box with comcast.
Digital channels are recorded as-is. Analog channels are digitized for recording. Any resolution conversion is done at playback (remember that 'live' is actually buffered, so it's always 'playback'.)

Has anyone experimented swapping out the existing HD with a larger one?

For instance, does anyone know if the contents of a factory fresh existing 6412 HD could be completely copied to a new (larger) HD to obtain a larger amount of recording space? The original drive could then be stored in a safe place should the box ever need to be returned to Comcast.

Is this at all possible?

I know there are tools available that allow you to replace your existing TiVo drive with a larger drive, so what about this box?

i thought the firmware had 120gb hardcoded which would ignore any other type of drive...

Digital channels are recorded as-is. Analog channels are digitized for recording. Any resolution conversion is done at playback (remember that 'live' is actually buffered, so it's always 'playback'.)

Yea, I knew the live was playback, but the interesting is, is that on the analog channels they seem even more "analog". That is to say the picture is snowy like a bad OTA signal, vs pixelated like a bad digital signal. I would think if the problem is the digitizing process it wouldn't introduce a "snowy" effect, rather pixelation.

But again what do I know? I'm just hoping for ADS to come soon.

Lately my 6412 has been skipping and freezing up for a few seconds on HD channels. I'm not sure if its the box or if its due to a crappy signal, but its getting annoying. Anyone have problems like this before? I'd like to get that new 6416 if cox has them available here in RI, guess I'll have to call.

Lately my 6412 has been skipping and freezing up for a few seconds on HD channels. I'm not sure if its the box or if its due to a crappy signal, but its getting annoying. Anyone have problems like this before? I'd like to get that new 6416 if cox has them available here in RI, guess I'll have to call.
These boxes are either so underpowered, or the software is so poor, that if you unplug them, they have trouble playing HD material during the time they are re-acquiring the guide information, which seems to take up to 24 hours or so. At least that's my experience. Could that be your problem?

These boxes are either so underpowered, or the software is so poor, that if you unplug them, they have trouble playing HD material during the time they are re-acquiring the guide information, which seems to take up to 24 hours or so. At least that's my experience. Could that be your problem?
We actually do move the tv between the dining room and the living room every evening. Its only unplugged for about a minute at the most, but maybe thats it..

We actually do move the tv between the dining room and the living room every evening. Its only unplugged for about a minute at the most, but maybe thats it..

Do you move the STB also? There not ment to be moved from the install location, and its not good for the box to keep loosing power...

Even knowing in advance that there was much to learn all over again now that I'm using a 6412p3 instead of the TiVo units I've very used to, I admit to being quite surprised that unplugging the 6412 for even a minute caused it to lose all its scheduling data.

And I'm still getting used to having only 5 days worth of data also.

But its a price I'm willing to pay for HD recording. :)

Even knowing in advance that there was much to learn all over again now that I'm using a 6412p3 instead of the TiVo units I've very used to, I admit to being quite surprised that unplugging the 6412 for even a minute caused it to lose all its scheduling data.

And I'm still getting used to having only 5 days worth of data also.

But its a price I'm willing to pay for HD recording. :)

It holds 14 days of Guide Data.

It holds 14 days of Guide Data.

Mine often doesn't go beyond 7-9 days. Sometimes it will show some listings 15-18 days out.

...mike

It holds 14 days of Guide Data.That's good to know. All I can surmise is that different providers offer different service -- in the two weeks that I have had my 6412 continuously powered up via UPS and connected to cable, it has never had more than five days forward of programming data. And it took two full days to populate that much data.

I last checked this morning -- still at five days, then nothing but "To Be Announced" ...

And yet no one has ever asked them to enable the port. Right.
Anyone besides me ever notice that these connections and ports "for future use", never seem to get enabled?

Anybody old enough to remember new TVs being sold in the 70s were "Cable Ready?" I turns out they still needed a STB of some kind to work, just like the "non-cable ready" TVs.

On some STB RF bypass will work when turned on in the settings and when you have the STB turned off. Red light should be on the display when active.


I'll try this and report back. I'm an Insight user.

Anybody old enough to remember new TVs being sold in the 70s were "Cable Ready?" It turns out they still needed a STB of some kind to work, just like the "non-cable ready" TVs.
Well, don't confuse issues- they were "cable-ready" sets were capable of tuning to the frequencies issued for cable- much to the dismay of the cable-TV companies, which started to scramble the signals (as well as allow tiered service levels). Once that happened, you needed an STB. It's never a prerequisite, and ComCast scrambles so many more analog SD channels than anywhere I've lived before (some 6 major metro areas). When I had cable in Boston in the mid-90s, as long as you didn't want to watch premium channels you never needed an STB.

I remember not needing an STB when my area first got cable in the late 70s for everything- they'd installed hard filter traps on your line for service you didn't subscribe to.

Do you move the STB also? There not ment to be moved from the install location, and its not good for the box to keep loosing power...
Yeah, its with the tv. Its a crappy situation right now, hopefully won't be like this for much longer, but its the tv that we use at night, as well as the tv thats used in the day in a different room. The tv stand has wheels so we just unplug it and plug it in a different room.

When I watch HD channels, I like to use the surround sound instead of my TV speakers. To do that, I lower the TV volume to zero and use the optical connection between the 6412 and my home theater.

However, on some transitions between programs and commercials, the sound drops out for 4-5 seconds. I did a quick test where I left the TV volume on low, and the TV speakers never lose sound during these transitions. My bet it is that the home theater (Samsung HT_HDP40) is being flakey. Before I call Samsung and complain, has anyone else noticed this with the optical output on their 6412? Any suggestions on how to definitely isolate which component is faulty?
I'm rather hoping it is the 6412, as I can get the cable company to replace that much easier than getting a replacement from Samsung.

--- John B.

Yeah, its with the tv. Its a crappy situation right now, hopefully won't be like this for much longer, but its the tv that we use at night, as well as the tv thats used in the day in a different room. The tv stand has wheels so we just unplug it and plug it in a different room.
Get a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) and put that on your TV stand. That can keep the 6412 powered while you roll everything between rooms. We get enough power glitches at my house that we've had a UPS on our DirecTivo, and now on the 6412 which replaces it, for some years now. I found this one - http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=2802 - for about 100 under list a few months ago. Its big enough to keep the home theater PC going for a while also.

And yet no one has ever asked them to enable the port. Right.
Anyone besides me ever notice that these connections and ports "for future use", never seem to get enabled?
The designers were just hedging their bets. What with the whole DRM boondoggle, and the lack of a dominant interconnect standard, and the fact that the hardware gets used by multiple customers, it's understandable. It still sucks, though (that the technology can support so much more than we're getting).

Sorry if this is a known problem, but I really have a hard time finding stuff in this thread.

I've got the 6412 optical audio out, in "matrix mode", connected to my AVR, and the 6412 HDMI out connected to my LCD TV with an HDMI-to-DVI cable. Some programs, when played from disk (either from the buffer or through DVR), drop significantly in volume. If it's a buffered program, going to live by changing the channel away and back restores the proper level.

I don't think I'm running into the HDMI-forces-PCM bug (since usually "stereo" mode, rather than surround, is louder on my system), but I could be wrong. Is this a known problem, and if not, any ideas on how to debug it?

When I watch HD channels, I like to use the surround sound instead of my TV speakers. To do that, I lower the TV volume to zero and use the optical connection between the 6412 and my home theater.

However, on some transitions between programs and commercials, the sound drops out for 4-5 seconds. I did a quick test where I left the TV volume on low, and the TV speakers never lose sound during these transitions. My bet it is that the home theater (Samsung HT_HDP40) is being flakey. Before I call Samsung and complain, has anyone else noticed this with the optical output on their 6412? Any suggestions on how to definitely isolate which component is faulty?
I'm rather hoping it is the 6412, as I can get the cable company to replace that much easier than getting a replacement from Samsung.

--- John B.
I notice the same thing at times and I am just using the hdmi connection for audio & vidio into my tv and using the tv's speakers; luckily the closed caption is on and I don't miss what was said. So it sounds like there's an issue.

I think I saw this on a thread somewhere but I am unable to find it again.

After I capture something via the firewire port and begin watching another recorded program, the fast forward is not working properly. It is is acting as slow instead of a fast forward. The only solution is to unplug the box and wait for it to download your info again.

I think I have 12.20 firmware, on the phase III box. The phase II box I had before had the same problem but nearly as bad, It was acceptable

Any ideas?

I think I saw this on a thread somewhere but I am unable to find it again.

After I capture something via the firewire port and begin watching another recorded program, the fast forward is not working properly. It is is acting as slow instead of a fast forward. The only solution is to unplug the box and wait for it to download your info again.

I think I have 12.20 firmware, on the phase III box. The phase II box I had before had the same problem but nearly as bad, It was acceptable

Any ideas?

No ideas, but I have the exact same problem.

Did you try unplugging the Firewire?

I have 6412 III box. I used to move some copied program, especially programs from Discovery, to my D-VHS by IEEE1394. I had no trouble to do so for all Discovery programs. Recently when I perform the same task, a message" copy restriction..." was displayed in the beginning of the process, then the D-VHS still continued the copy. When I play back the program, the resolution dropped to 480i instead of 1080i. Does anyone know what's happening?

Xiaoyu,

Can you spell 5C???

Yeah, its with the tv. Its a crappy situation right now, hopefully won't be like this for much longer, but its the tv that we use at night, as well as the tv thats used in the day in a different room. The tv stand has wheels so we just unplug it and plug it in a different room.
Igneous,
If I were you I'd invest in a cheap Backup Power supply used for computers. I believe you can get one for around $40 at Best buy, and this would keep your box alive as you move it.

Igneous,
If I were you I'd invest in a cheap Backup Power supply used for computers. I believe you can get one for around $40 at Best buy, and this would keep your box alive as you move it.

Make sure it is NOT a Cheep one. If you have a backup power supply or Surge protector. Make sure it is a Power conditioner type. The Motorola DCT seies STB do not like any change in Voltage. The low end Computer backup power supplies do not have this feature.

Can you spell 5C???

Did discovery channel have 5C last year?

Did discovery channel have 5C last year?

It varies from location to location. Look around at some of the D-VHS threads, they get into lengthy discussions about 5C flags. My system has "copy-one" on the HD cables (ESPN, Discovery, INHD, etc) but the networks are "copy-free". I think for now, this is how it is supposed to be. But some areas are all still "copy-free" i think. Those people are very lucky, and should run out and buy a D-VHS deck while they can freely copy HD w/ restrictions on non-network channels.

One of the things that these crappy Moto boxes do actually do is output a firewire signal that can be plugged into a D-VHS deck. But the FCC mandates that, so that's not really anything extra Comcrap is giving us.

xiaoyu, I get similar messages from time to time. Unplug and reconnect all the firewire cables in your chain. It's probably a "glitch" somewhere along the line. My 5u sometimes throws me for a loop by saying a previously recordable channel is no longer recordable. A simple unplug/replug of the devices fixes it.

A friend of mine that has Comcast digital in Baltimore said that his neighbor was haivng his Motorola 6412 replaced by a new STB from Panasonic that has THREE tuners.

Has anyone heard of this or know what type of hardware it has (hard drive size etc) and what availability is supposed to be like? Links please! Thanks!!

A friend of mine that has Comcast digital in Baltimore said that his neighbor was haivng his Motorola 6412 replaced by a new STB from Panasonic that has THREE tuners.

Has anyone heard of this or know what type of hardware it has (hard drive size etc) and what availability is supposed to be like? Links please! Thanks!!

There not available yet. Do to go beta in May. They should be out later this year in areas that are OCAP compliant.

HD size is 250gb.

Here is the topic link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=640348

ok, so i just spent the last 3 days reading this thread and have learned alot but,

there still seems to be a void in the solution for those who use a AVR with the MOTO

Is there a solution for this yet??

if i use the motorola 6412 III via HDMI to AVR to via HDMI to plasma i get a HDCP blinking screen. Any solutions?

if i connect moto to plasma directly to plasma via HDMI, no problems, picture is definately better than via component.

i know i have heard a few of you guys post the same thing but no one seems to know yet, i think? is there a solution yet or must i accept component for now?

i have the moto 6412 III firmware 12.18 but am ready to get the FW 12.22 in the ATlanta area if this is the fix.

Anybody knows anything??

thanks to all

Koooter

Good news! Solution to DD5.1 problem: With firmware 12.27, I no longer have the problem!!!

(starpower in the DC area, connecting 6412 III (now!) via HDMI to Pioneer 1130HD and via digital audio (optical or coax, I forget) to Onkyo txr600 AVR.)

To recap, before e.g. with firmware 12.18, when I played recordings off the Moto and used HDMI out to the TV and digital audio to the AVR, DD5.1 switched to pcm (i.e. I lost the DD5.1 and got regular stereo). Now, no problem.

Sorry, can't speak to the whole HDMI-to-receiver business.

When I watch HD channels, I like to use the surround sound instead of my TV speakers. To do that, I lower the TV volume to zero and use the optical connection between the 6412 and my home theater.
--- John B.
Hey John,
Don't you get LipSynch issues doing that? I know I tried to watch the Olympics on UHD that way, and it was fine as long as they were showing the actual sporting events, but as soon as a talking head was displayed, the out-of-synch speech drove me nuts.

Is there RS-232 control??

Just in case anyone was wondering what the silver box does.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/4977/dct64126zk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Ron

Is it true that this V3 6412 box with the HDMI is the only 6412 that outputs true 5.1 on some channels? If so, Is the HDMI output the only one that outputs true 5.1 or does the optical output it also?

Hey John,
Don't you get LipSynch issues doing that? I know I tried to watch the Olympics on UHD that way, and it was fine as long as they were showing the actual sporting events, but as soon as a talking head was displayed, the out-of-synch speech drove me nuts.

Yup, I do. I was hoping to play with the sound delay control on the HDP40 to fix it, but haven't had the time yet.

--- John B.

Can anyone tell me how the composite input on the front panel works? Is it possible to record the program onto the DVR when playing it through these inputs?

Is it true that this V3 6412 box with the HDMI is the only 6412 that outputs true 5.1 on some channels? If so, Is the HDMI output the only one that outputs true 5.1 or does the optical output it also?

I have the 6412 phase III with the HDMI output. The optical does indeed output 5.1, but as CSONNTAG noted, the synch is a bit off. I don't know if this is adjustable or not.

Another issue I have with the optical output is that when there is a transition between the program and commercials, sometimes the sound drops out for 4-5 seconds. In one case it dropped out and didn't come back until I changed the channel. (But first I restarted the home theater, changed its options, and exhausted every possible fix I could do to the H.T. until I realized that it was the 6412 that was at fault.) Others report the same issue. After the Olympics I will try to get Adelphia to exchange my 6412 for another one. Hopefully one with newer firmware as well (I have 12.20).

The 6412 has many options, possibly one of those can fix the sound delay issue with the optical output.

--- John B.

I have the 6412 phase III with the HDMI output. The optical does indeed output 5.1, but as CSONNTAG noted, the synch is a bit off. I don't know if this is adjustable or not.Are you seeing sync issues only with the HDMI output? I use component video and optical (because of the other HDMI bugs) and don't have any sync issue.

Can anyone tell me how the composite input on the front panel works? Is it possible to record the program onto the DVR when playing it through these inputs?
The AV inputs, on the front or back, are usually not enabled. I think the rear-audio inputs will go into pass-thru (to the audio out) when you turn the box off, but otherwise, are disabled, too.

I will try to get Adelphia to exchange my 6412 for another one. Hopefully one with newer firmware as well (I have 12.20).Every 6412 in your cable area will have EXACTLY the same firmware. The firmware is controlled by the cable head-end. If and when they have a firmware update, all boxes attached to their system get upgraded.

I think the rear-audio inputs will go into pass-thru (to the audio out) when you turn the box offIs this speculation or fact? Have you tested this?

Is this speculation or fact? Have you tested this?

Yes, if you turn the STB off then the Aux L/R Audio inputs will go to the L/R Audio output.

.... I will try to get Adelphia to exchange my 6412 for another one. Hopefully one with newer firmware as well (I have 12.20).
Don't bother. I have a 6412 with 12.27 (i.e., the latest) in my OC place and every now and then the sound drops out and you have to hit pause (or something) then play to bring it back.

I'm sure the guys at Motorola/Passport(?) have seen this happen, so maybe they don't know WTF's going on, either?

Just in case anyone was wondering what the silver box does.



Ron
See anyway to hook up a SDI output inside anywhere, without too much modifying of course.. ;)

Don't bother. I have a 6412 with 12.27 (i.e., the latest) in my OC place and every now and then the sound drops out and you have to hit pause (or something) then play to bring it back.

I'm sure the guys at Motorola/Passport(?) have seen this happen, so maybe they don't know WTF's going on, either?


I'm also in OC and have the same problem. Sporadically my sound goes out, so I have to FF/RW or change channel to solve. Only been happening for about a month, wonder if this coincides with the last systemwide firmware upgrade?

I'm in DC and have also noticed this problem for the past few weeks only, and I did get the 12.27 upgrade sometime in thepast few weeks as well.

I'm in DC and have also noticed this problem for the past few weeks only, and I did get the 12.27 upgrade sometime in thepast few weeks as well.Ditto for Shaw in Canada with the new 12.26 a couple weeks ago.