http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/6075/dsc029039bo.jpg

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/8756/dsc029042my.jpg

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/4269/dsc029018lc.jpg

:)

I have 2 of these new 6412's from Insight Cable in Indiana. HDMI and SATA, the firmware is 12.18, infact those pics above are of my cable box :rolleyes: .

I have a question on this, is the HDMI output clearly nicer than the Component, or can you tell that much of a difference?

Also, any word if any Comcast dealers are getting this?

I see an Orange SPDIF output in the picture is there also an Optical Digital output?

RScottyL,

What is your output device? If you have a digital projector or RPTV, an HDMI or DVI connection will typically provide a superior result as the signal will stay digital the entire time. If you have a CRT projector or RPTV, it can be a toss up which digital to analog converter is better; the one in the TV, or the one in the cable box.

RScottyL,

What is your output device? If you have a digital projector or RPTV, an HDMI or DVI connection will typically provide a superior result as the signal will stay digital the entire time. If you have a CRT projector or RPTV, it can be a toss up which digital to analog converter is better; the one in the TV, or the one in the cable box.
Personally, I have a 26" Samsung CRT and my 6412 hooked up via DVI is superior to component. The difference isn't huge - the most noticable improvement is in menus and screen overlays; DVI makes them much sharper.

So... the obvious next question: have you tried to expand the hard drive capacity using the SATA port, as has already been done successfully with the SA8300HD and its SATA port?

If so, what results? If not, why not???

I have a question on this, is the HDMI output clearly nicer than the Component, or can you tell that much of a difference?

Also, any word if any Comcast dealers are getting this?

Both are very similiar, however direct thu my Sony xs is superior. to the moto.

Wow, finally a decent looking box from Moto.

Can you see what rev. of the broadcom chip is in the STB? It might be hidden under a large heat synch.

In fact a digi photo of this thing with the top cover off would be very cool.

Thanks,

Tommba

Wow, finally a decent looking box from Moto.

Can you see what rev. of the broadcom chip is in the STB? It might be hidden under a large heat synch.

In fact a digi photo of this thing with the top cover off would be very cool.

Thanks,

Tommba
BCM7038

Ron

Wider shot of the Phase 3 rear panel:

http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/1250/dcp11542xu.th.jpg (http://img345.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp11542xu.jpg)

Ron

Walford, there is an optical and coax output on the older 6412s too.

I second the question- Have you tried a SATA drive yet?

Thankx for the updated rear image. I was concerned since I have used both optical and Coax on my older 6412 and I wanted to make sure that they were both still available with the change from DVi to HDMI.

yep we all want to know if sata working on these boxes ;)

yep we all want to know if sata working on these boxes
Rumor has it only work with them sata II 500GB from hitachi.... :p

http://www.rackmountpro.com/productpage.php?prodid=2323

Rumor has it only work with them sata II 500GB from hitachi.... :p Unbelievable! A 500gb drive, for $575, and only 8mb cache!

For my SA8300 I went with the Maxtor Maxline III, 300gb, $177, 16mb cache. Good enough for government work.

Nevertheless, I'd still like to know if any other drive than this Hitachi will work with the new DCT6412. I can't see why successful operation would be drive-specific.

I am in NJ (Comcast) does anyone have the new 6412 HDMI box in NJ? Did anyone hear of when they are availiable in NJ?


Rob

Can the USB be used to add on an external hard drive?

Can the USB be used to add on an external hard drive?No.

Supposedly they were going to allow external Firewire drives, but who knows?

Unbelievable! A 500gb drive, for $575, and only 8mb cache!

For my SA8300 I went with the Maxtor Maxline III, 300gb, $177, 16mb cache. Good enough for government work.

Nevertheless, I'd still like to know if any other drive than this Hitachi will work with the new DCT6412. I can't see why successful operation would be drive-specific.

Pre-order price for world first biggest sata II drive is bit crazy. But it's definately not that high when it becomes avalible. Dell has this drive for an option to add on their 9100 system for $400.

I was just joking on the rumor, if that only works with hitachi sata II then i'll pay 4x 250GB for $120 each rather than their monster 500GB. The 250GB is a newly designed with 125GB platter, reported to run fast, quiet and cool. I don't know If Dallas TX will have the latest 6412, i would love to test workabilities on varies drives on this unit.

I remember reading a press release from Maxtor or Seagate months ago that talked about hard drives with built-in HDCP-like copy protection technology. That means that the content could not be read on a "standard" PC. I would not be surprised if we need one of those special drives to expand storage capacity on these boxes... Just a guess.

I remember reading a press release from Maxtor or Seagate months ago that talked about hard drives with built-in HDCP-like copy protection technology. That means that the content could not be read on a "standard" PC. I would not be surprised if we need one of those special drives to expand storage capacity on these boxes... Just a guess.Why? The boxes now use standard IDE drives. They can enable support for external drives over Firewire- I just don't know why they keep putting it off? Why would SATA be any better?

I also posted this in the "Insight Cable - Indiana - Motorola 6412" thread. Anyone having any issues with the remote from this DVR? I picked mine up on Saturday and have been unable to find a proper code for my Toshiba RPTV (56H80). The remote I had with my previous DVR (DCT6208) worked fine with this TV. The Toshiba code 0156 from the user guide powers the TV on and off and allows volume control but the channel up/down buttons do not respond, nor do any of the numeric keys. When I try the "searching for your codes" option I found one where the channel up key worked (but no channel down), as well as numeric keys 0-3 (but not 4-9). The remote is responding properly when operating the DVR as well as my Toshiba DVD player via the AUX key.

Uhhhh........nevermind. It was a channel lock issue. I located the manual which explained how to unlock it.

Does anyone know if PIP works on the Phase 3?

Did the Motorola Diagnostic pages change at all with the addition of SATA on the Phase 3? In other words, is there now a SATA diag page? If so what does it display?

Thanks

RScottyL,

What is your output device? If you have a digital projector or RPTV, an HDMI or DVI connection will typically provide a superior result as the signal will stay digital the entire time. If you have a CRT projector or RPTV, it can be a toss up which digital to analog converter is better; the one in the TV, or the one in the cable box.

I have a Mitsubishi WS-55515 CRT RPTV

I think I may give it a try. I would not be losing anything over what I have in my old 6412 box, infact, I am getting more options with this new box, namely the HDMI and the Sata capability.

Nobody has a SATA drive to try with this thing?

Nobody has a SATA drive to try with this thing?

Exactly!!! who'll be the first on earth to report this to end user??? no taker?? :p

If only i got one of this on hand....

Hard to believe it's been over two weeks since first "sighting" of this new 6412 model, and still nobody lucky enough to have this box has tried the SATA expansion port to determine if it's active or not. Amazing.

I'm also curious about the HDMI connector and associated firmware. I know that with the SA8300 and its approach to HDMI, connecting it via HDMI to a TV (e.g. Sharp Aquos 45") which does not support DD5.1 causes the SA8300 to shut down its optical/coax digital audio output from Dolby Digital 5.1 to PCM 2.0, something which is not very desirable.

The solution for the SA8300 is either (a) to never use the HDTV speakers and instead "force" the SA8300 to put out Dolby Digital audio via Audio Setup, or (b) to use a HDMI-to-DVI connection to the HDTV instead (which avoids the unintended HDMI audio DD5.1->DD2.0 complication back at the SA8300), and also run a separate L/R-stereo audio cable to the HDTV for "ordinary" HDTV watching via HDTV speakers, and also to force digital audio output via Audio Setup to Dolby Digital so that the optical/coax output is indeed DD5.1 to the external theater surround sound system when present.

I'm curious to know if Motorola's implementation of HDMI for this new 6412 is similar.

My local CC was offering this box for $299 with a 2 year commitment to Cox cable. I had to return my 2nd gen 6412 because the firewire output had the copy protection turned on in the latest firmware update. I was then unable to archive to D-VHS. Can anyone confirm that the firewire is working in this box?

I see there's an RF output on this new Moto, has anyone tried it? In my situation I'd connect the HDMI to my Sony DVI, and use the RF to feed the other TV's in my house. Would HD programs be down rezzed over th RF?

I see there's an RF output on this new Moto, has anyone tried it? In my situation I'd connect the HDMI to my Sony DVI, and use the RF to feed the other TV's in my house. Would HD programs be down rezzed over th RF?

Yes, because HD can only run on HDMI/DVI or Component.

Yes, because HD can only run on HDMI/DVI or Component.

Understood, but will it be done automatically or does it have to be switched to 480I manually? With my HD D* Tivo I have to manually set the rez output to 480I to view HD content over S-video or composite.

Understood, but will it be done automatically or does it have to be switched to 480I manually? With my HD D* Tivo I have to manually set the rez output to 480I to view HD content over S-video or composite.
I don't know for sure, but, I think, the RF output is made to be used in addition to another output, whether it be DVI, Component, S-Video, or Composite, so it should be automatically outputting both resolutions. Maybe someone else can chime in to be sure.

It's kinda dumb that, with all the other enhancements, they didn't put a larger hdd in the phase 3 version. :rolleyes:

I'm getting a dct-6412 monday from Insight in Columbus and had some questions (I didn't want to start a new thread) and was hoping someone would know the answers who have used the unit. I have an LG DLP with 1 dvi and 2 component inputs. Will the 6412 let me record the higher number digital pack channels (200 and up) off this box and show the hd feed at the same time or will I have to keep my old digial box to pick up those channels to feed my Tivo? As far as the HD dual tuner goes, how does that work? Does the box switch between tuners or do I need to hook up connections to the dvi and component? What if I wanted to do something silly like hook up every available output into the tv's inputs, just how many things can this box show at once? Actually that last question isn't so far fetched becuase if I could hook both my tivo's into it to record the higher number digital channels, I'd probably do it.

I use a 6412 from Mediacom and I can record chans 200 and up and watch an HD feed at the same time by hitting the swap button. It's not as smart as the dual tuner directivos that automatically switches tuners when you're recording something and want to watch another channel.

the 6412s with the MSTV guide do that also, so its not a hardware issue. Infact our swap button does nothing when you push it.

Not all cable companies get the same exact box. Cox in Omaha Nebraska has the new phase 3 6412 and it doesn't have rf out.

Andrew Wees
I see there's an RF output on this new Moto, has anyone tried it? In my situation I'd connect the HDMI to my Sony DVI, and use the RF to feed the other TV's in my house. Would HD programs be down rezzed over th RF?

Not all cable companies get the same exact box. Cox in Omaha Nebraska has the new phase 3 6412 and it doesn't have rf out.

Andrew Wees

the phase 3 boxes do have RF out. the first two versions didnt.

the phase 3 boxes do have RF out. the first two versions didnt.

Do you know if the RF output displays graphics such as menus, APG etc. when the HD outputs are set to 720P or 1080i? I'd like to have the box feed my HDTV and us the RF to feed SD tv's and have the same functionality on all tv's. I'm not sure how an HD program would be handled on an SDTV, down converted I suppose?

the phase 3 boxes do have RF out. the first two versions didnt.
It depends on the cable company whether RF out will be supported. The same for SATA and USB.

Someone try an external hd dammit!

Someone try an external hd dammit!


I know!!!! someone with a phase 3 box hurry up!!! :)

PC Monitor attached to Motorola 6412
I returned my hdtv the other day and since I have gotten rid of my old tv I was left to attach my 21" PC (4 x 3)monitor to my Motorola 6412 DVR box.

My monitor has the following inputs:
- dvi-d
- composite
- s-video

I have hooked the dvr box up to each of these and none of them work properly. Here are the results of each:

1) DVI-D. When I turn the moto dvr box on I do get a picture that is stretched up from widescreen to 4x3 (even Craig Stadler looks thin) but that only lasts about 5 seconds and it goes blank.

2) S-VIDEO. I get a good enough picture but cannot use the on screen TV Guide or On Demand.

3) COMPOSITE. Same as S-VIDEO.

I called the comcast customer support line and got into a bizarre conversation with a rep who kept telling me that she could not understand why the tv guide would not work because she had it connected the same way (via s-video) at home. In fact she "knew how to fix these things before she even came to work for comcast because she had had a dvr for the past year".

She was insisting it was the dvr box that was at fault and had already sent 2 depth charges, or whatever they are, to it. Anyway after me pushing her that it must have something to do with the new monitor, after all nothing else had changed to the setup she says "Well there's a guy who knows a lot about computers here so I'll go and talk to him". He happened to be over the other side of the building so 5 minutes later she was back to tell me that he said I need to go and buy a connector from Radio Shack. Of course she being an old pro was referring to it is "the Shack". When I asked her what kind of connector I should get she said "I cannot remember what the computer expert told me a few minuts ago but they'll know at the Shack". Unreal...

You must be patient with these people however otherwise they get even worse. I asked her what connection out of the DVR I should use and what connection into my monitor I should use. This had her stumped and lumbering back across the building to the computer expert. Closer to 10 minutes later she was back. The walk seemed to overexert her as when she came back she was huffing and puffing like an old steam train. Anyway this time she had a completely different story for me. "Oh it's because you have a PC monitor that you cannot get the TV Guide. TV's have special stuff in them that prevents copyright theft and that's why you cannot ge the TV Guide. We even tried it out on his PC and it would not work - that's why I was so long."

At this point I gave up, thanked her kindly for her time and hung up. It blows my mind that Comcast does not have some kind of script that they run through to diagnose problems or at least a knowledge base to search on. Management is truly pathetic.

Now I know there are some real experts on this forum so can you give me any suggestions as to why I cannot use the guide on a PC monitor, regular Dell LCD with svideo, composite and dvi-d in?

Postscript: Wow I cannot believe I wrote for this long but it really is bugging me as my dvr is recording away and I cannot watch any of the programs.

Use S-Video for now (get a HDTV). It won't work with DVI because your monitor isn't HDCP compliant. You should get the guide, but I don't know how to set it up for S-Video.

Are the phase 3 boxes finally smart enough to switch tuners on their own or do you still have to hit the swap button?

I just got this on saturday. You have to hit the swap button if you are trying to do something that conflicts with recording.

I am looking around for a SATA drive - if I can find a cheap one, I will buy and check out the SATA connection. Is SATA used for anything else except storage?

My cable installer told me that motorola website has a page that shows what ports are active for which cable companies - anyone know anything about this? I would like to verify somehow that the SATA port is active before buying a drive.

Motorola hasn't updated their support site with the new box yet - still showing DVI port and no SATA port.

Have Comcast coming out Thursday afternoon. Told them I needed the box with an HDMI output. Currently have a SATA attached to my 8300HD, so hopefully I'll be able to test and report back Thursday.

Cool, I will wait to hear back before buying a new drive (the plasma, dvd player and universal remote in one week are already crushing me.)

My TV only has a DVI input.

Being this is "Phase III", is the improvement enough to warrant trading in the 6412 I have now (with a DVI output) for this newer one and getting a HDMI to DVI cable?

My TV only has a DVI input.

Being this is "Phase III", is the improvement enough to warrant trading in the 6412 I have now (with a DVI output) for this newer one and getting a HDMI to DVI cable?If you're already using DVI-to-DVI from your existing 6412, then visually you would get zero benefit from going to HDMI-to-DVI. You would be receiving exactly the same digital video data delivered.

And since you're already passing analog L/R audio from 6412 to your HDTV or stereo system (since it only has DVI input, not HDMI input), or digital audio from the 6412 to your surround receiver, you have no need (nor can you) pass digital audio from 6412 to your HDTV.

Bottom line: the new 6412 doesn't offer you anything except the potential for an expansion SATA drive (if anybody ever confirms that this is actually active and functional, rather than just being available for possible future use).

Bottom line: the new 6412 doesn't offer you anything except the potential for an expansion SATA drive (if anybody ever confirms that this is actually active and functional, rather than just being available for possible future use).
What about having a different firmware? Any benefit to version 12.xx versus 9.19?

No additional features besides the "possible" expansion SATA drive?

What about having a different firmware? Any benefit to version 12.xx versus 9.19?

No additional features besides the "possible" expansion SATA drive?

The Phase III looks to be hardware ready as a base station for a home media center application. This model would appear to have both the chipset and connectivity to support a base station/client scenario.

Being this is Broadcom's new flagship chipset, you may find the PQ slightly improved over previous models.

My cable company finally swapped out a DCT6208 for the DCT6412 III a few days ago. The box seems to work very well, although I do find the hard drive stepper motor chirp to be a little annoying. At least the platter motor is much quieter than the one in the 6208.

I'm using component until I get an HDMI-DVI adapter. The box has 12.18 firmware, and I'm using the same Moto DRC800 remote they supplied with the 6208. I would be interested if someone reports that SATA and firewire both work.

The Phase III looks to be hardware ready as a base station for a home media center application. This model would appear to have both the chipset and connectivity to support a base station/client scenario.

Being this is Broadcom's new flagship chipset, you may find the PQ slightly improved over previous models.
If I understand you correctly, one would be able to share content from the DVR to another HD box?
If so, would the 6200 be sufficient for this purpose.

The Phase III looks to be hardware ready as a base station for a home media center application. This model would appear to have both the chipset and connectivity to support a base station/client scenario.

Being this is Broadcom's new flagship chipset, you may find the PQ slightly improved over previous models.
Could you go into detail about "base station/client scenario". Is that basically like Dish network dual tuner DVR's that work with 2 tv's and have 2 different remote controls?

If I understand you correctly, one would be able to share content from the DVR to another HD box?
If so, would the 6200 be sufficient for this purpose.

Sharing content is both a hardware and software issue. I don't have experience with the 6200 to comment, but I don't recall any posts from users stating that such a feature works on that box.

Even with the Phase III, the hardware is of little use until they enable those features and provide the client boxes to make it all work. From a Comcast standpoint, it just makes sense to put these in the field now so it lessens the installed base, meaning fewer box swaps when they actually decide to roll out media center features. That could be next month or two years from now though.

That have vaugely suggested a Tivo UI in '06 and the Phase III appear to be Tivo capable. That's about all we know at this point.

Is the phase 3 box only in limited circulation or is Motorola releasing it to all cable companies (Cox, Comcast, Adelphia, etc.) to replace the other boxes for future installs?

Could you go into detail about "base station/client scenario". Is that basically like Dish network dual tuner DVR's that work with 2 tv's and have 2 different remote controls?

If you look at the feature set of the Broadcom BCM7038, then consider the SATA, the USB, the ethernet and RF out ports they have installed, there are several possibilities cooking there. It has triple PVR capability and has the capability for 2 HDTV stream with PIP on both. It has copy protection onboard. The 64-bit MIPS processor and the memory interface are pretty stout and better than anything else in the market at this time that I am aware of. Hardware wise, it can support two HDTVs on the one box(including PIP on both) and has connectivity for more beyond that.

The box appears to be loaded for bear. Remains to be seen how quickly they make use of the features.

Keep in mind Motorola is the same hardware company supporting the proposed D* home media center, so part of what you are seeing here is a tit-for-tat hardware battle between cable and DBS. In the end, I see it as all good because the consumer ultimately gets more choices.

The box appears to be loaded for bear. Remains to be seen how quickly they make use of the features.
This is really the crux of the issue right here. Even the existing 6412 I have is loaded with features that are not activated.

Another question: Does the new 6412 have the option of a Tivo guide instead of the iGuide? Or is this an option that is coming in the near future?

Also, what cities and/or cable companies have received these units?

What about having a different firmware? Any benefit to version 12.xx versus 9.19?

No additional features besides the "possible" expansion SATA drive?
Read on another forum that the speed of the UI is greatly improved. No lag between key presses. I don't currently have an existing 6412 so I won't be able to compare when I (hopefully) get mine tomorrow.

This is really the crux of the issue right here. Even the existing 6412 I have is loaded with features that are not activated.

Another question: Does the new 6412 have the option of a Tivo guide instead of the iGuide? Or is this an option that is coming in the near future?

Also, what cities and/or cable companies have received these units?

I think you have to keep in mind the previous models were more of an existing product that Comcast deployed. If you believe the News Corp folks, it was purely a defensive move. The connectivity on the back wouldn't necessarily have suited Comcast's long range plans.

This box, OTOH, is clearly an offensive effort. I failed to mention it also has VOIP onboard. That's a huge push nationwide for Comcast right now, putting them well ahead in the triple play effort. You only need a handset besides this box to use the service. No more external modems. Don't know how that pans out with the earlier models.

Yup, the more I look at this box, it's clear this is more than just an incremental hardware change. With DVR deployment on the upswing, these guys could potentially have several hundred thousand, perhaps upwards of a half a million of these boxes installed before D* or the RBOCs(SBC in my case) can even respond with an HD media center of their own. Strategically, this puts them in a strong position going forward. I think the next 6-12 months could be interesting.

The Tivo drivers are onboard with this chipset. That's a setup for a full software upgrade later.

Read on another forum that the speed of the UI is greatly improved. No lag between key presses. I don't currently have an existing 6412 so I won't be able to compare when I (hopefully) get mine tomorrow.

You would expect it to be. The processor alone is a leap forward on this box. I think as this thing rolls out and more end users start reporting in, we might hear about a whole host of new niceties, along with a few bugs, I'm sure.

I don't know how bad the lag was with the old one (didn't have it), but on mine I have noticed when watching HD that I can push the channel up/down button, nothing happens, I push it again, maybe a third time, then all of a sudden the channel changes by 3.

This is really the crux of the issue right here. Even the existing 6412 I have is loaded with features that are not activated.

Another question: Does the new 6412 have the option of a Tivo guide instead of the iGuide? Or is this an option that is coming in the near future?

Also, what cities and/or cable companies have received these units?
Whether or not the TiVo interface will be used depends on the cable co, Comcast has indicated they will offer it, but it will be above and beyond the standard interface, meaning it will have an additional cost to the subscriber.

Your right, the 6412 does have a lot of unused potential, but there again, even with the new boxes it boils down to how much effort in support and revenue the cableco will realize from offering their subs greater functionality. We all want it, but does a company like Comcast for example want to have to deal with the support issue of say, making sure customers SATA drives are working properly, or that the ethernet port works with everyone's hubs? Competition, cost and support issues will all weigh in on whether or not certain functionality will be offered.

Are the phase 3 boxes finally smart enough to switch tuners on their own or do you still have to hit the swap button?

reybie says "It's not as smart as the dual tuner directivos that automatically switches tuners when you're recording something and want to watch another channel"

I have either the 1st or 2nd gen 6412 and if you program it to record a show that comes on while you are watching another channel it will always record on the opposite tuner than you are viewing so as not to interrupt the user. The only time you need to manually switch tuners is if you decide to start a manual recording of something you are watching. If you want to surf while that is recording you have to go to the other tuner.


WiFi-Spy says " Infact our swap button does nothing when you push it. "

It may appear that way, but it isn't. The second tuner mirrors the first until there is a call for it. When a programmed recording is in progress with the 2nd tuner you will see a red indicator light on the upper right of the Moto display. If you are watching a different channel then what is being recorded press the tuner button and you will now see the channel being recorded. Press the button again and it will return you to the original tuner and channel you were watching.
You can tell what tuner is recording by the display. If its the one you are watching the display will say "REC". If its the second tuner it will be the red light.

What I like is that you can record 2 programs and watch a third from its DVR drive.

Well Comcast showed up, they brought the wrong box, so I sent them away. Sorry can't test the SATA port yet.

I am considering going for the Comcast/Moto DVR, but I have a couple questions.

1) How bad is the interface (w/ the latest firmware) compared to TiVo? I have 2 Series 1 TiVos right now and I love them, very easy to use, very intuitive. Anything that really annoys current/previous TiVo users?

2) My TiVos are hacked w/ network connections and TiVoWeb so I can set stuff via the web. I assume that this feature is not available on the Comcast/Moto box, despite the Eth connector on the back, right?

3) My HDTV only has HDMI (and component of course), will Comcast provide me with an HDMI cable, or do I need to have one for them to hook up the box via HDMI?

Thanks

-Brett

I am considering going for the Comcast/Moto DVR, but I have a couple questions.

1) How bad is the interface (w/ the latest firmware) compared to TiVo? I have 2 Series 1 TiVos right now and I love them, very easy to use, very intuitive. Anything that really annoys current/previous TiVo users?

2) My TiVos are hacked w/ network connections and TiVoWeb so I can set stuff via the web. I assume that this feature is not available on the Comcast/Moto box, despite the Eth connector on the back, right?

3) My HDTV only has HDMI (and component of course), will Comcast provide me with an HDMI cable, or do I need to have one for them to hook up the box via HDMI?

Thanks

-Brett

1) It's quite awful. Honestly. But I'm getting used to it slowly, but it's nowhere as easy as a Tivo, nor quite as intelligent. But the picture...soooo worth it.

2) Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch.

3) no idea, not in that area, but Insight here provided me with a choice of cables, I needed a DVI-HDMI and it was $12 I think.

On the Tivo bit: I've been using Tivo's of various flavors since around 2000 or so and I've been througha lot of changes with them and they are by far easier to operate than the 6412. That being said they are improving over their older systems by a wide margin, and I expect that to keep happening. I still have my Tivo's hooked up to the tv, and while i take the resolution hit, I just can't stop using them. YMMV, caveat emptor etc etc etc...

1) How bad is the interface (w/ the latest firmware) compared to TiVo? I have 2 Series 1 TiVos right now and I love them, very easy to use, very intuitive. Anything that really annoys current/previous TiVo users?

Having just switched from DirecTiVo, here are my main gripes so far:

-- No way to save searches--you can create a series recording (like a Season Pass), but only if some episode of it is actually showing in the next few days (i.e. is in your guide). This isn't a huge deal, since I mostly relied on Season Passes rather than Wishlists, but it does mean that if there's a series that doesn't happen to be showing currently, you can't add a series recording for it.

-- It's more of a pain to enter the title for a search (you have to scroll through the whole alphabet instead of having a grid of letters).

-- If you accidentally try to turn off the box in the middle of a recording, it will ask if you want to cancel the recording. You basically should just leave the box on all the time. (This was true with the TiVos too, but they didn't have a power button at all on the remote, really, so you never had to worry about accidentally hitting it.)

-- Generally feels like more button presses to do simple things. The UI doesn't feel well-organized.

3) My HDTV only has HDMI (and component of course), will Comcast provide me with an HDMI cable, or do I need to have one for them to hook up the box via HDMI?

You'll have to buy one yourself, as well as a female HDMI/male DVI adapter if you get one of the older 6412s with the DVI port (apparently the newer ones have an HDMI port). These cables aren't cheap, btw--at my local Best Buy a 6' HDMI cable was $75, and that wasn't even a Monster cable. You can get them much cheaper online, e.g. from bluejeanscable.com (which has a 6' HDMI-to-DVI cable for about $37), but I was feeling impatient :)

3) no idea, not in that area, but Insight here provided me with a choice of cables, I needed a DVI-HDMI and it was $12 I think.

Wow. I sure got ripped off by buying my HDMI cable at Best Buy :)

I just bought a mess of cables from http://www.monoprice.com/home/index.asp

They haven't arrived yet, but on some other threads people were talking well of them. 6 foot HDMI-HDMI, gold plated $6.44. I stocked up on a bunch of stuff.

I have either the 1st or 2nd gen 6412 and if you program it to record a show that comes on while you are watching another channel it will always record on the opposite tuner than you are viewing so as not to interrupt the user. The only time you need to manually switch tuners is if you decide to start a manual recording of something you are watching. If you want to surf while that is recording you have to go to the other tuner.




It may appear that way, but it isn't. The second tuner mirrors the first until there is a call for it. When a programmed recording is in progress with the 2nd tuner you will see a red indicator light on the upper right of the Moto display. If you are watching a different channel then what is being recorded press the tuner button and you will now see the channel being recorded. Press the button again and it will return you to the original tuner and channel you were watching.
You can tell what tuner is recording by the display. If its the one you are watching the display will say "REC". If its the second tuner it will be the red light.

What I like is that you can record 2 programs and watch a third from its DVR drive.



Not on the MSTV guide software we have..... the swap button is useless...

I still have my Tivo's hooked up to the tv, and while i take the resolution hit, I just can't stop using them. YMMV, caveat emptor etc etc etc...
I still have my tivo in my system too, but I find with analog channels the 6412 is where I take the PQ hit. Analog looks much better from the tivo tuner than from the 6412 tuner. This will go away once the digital simulcast effort is complete in my area.

I only use the 6412 to record HD due to its space limitations. All non-HD recording is still done on my tivo.

I still have my tivo in my system too, but I find with analog channels the 6412 is where I take the PQ hit. Analog looks much better from the tivo tuner than from the 6412 tuner. This will go away once the digital simulcast effort is complete in my area.

I only use the 6412 to record HD due to its space limitations. All non-HD recording is still done on my tivo.

That's interesting. The quality of the non-hd programming on HD channels (say channel 762 vs channel 4) is worse than the analog channels on the 6412 but both are superior to anything coming out of my Tivos. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the Tivo connections (tried em all now) or the cabling or the TV etc but I'm still not giving them up! Never! :D

3) COMPOSITE. Same as S-VIDEO.

I called the comcast customer support line and got into a bizarre conversation with a rep who kept telling me that she could not understand why the tv guide would not work because she had it connected the same way (via s-video) at home. In fact she "knew how to fix these things before she even came to work for comcast because she had had a dvr for the past year".

She was insisting it was the dvr box that was at fault and had already sent 2 depth charges, or whatever they are, to it. Anyway after me pushing her that it must have something to do with the new monitor, after all nothing else had changed to the setup she says "Well there's a guy who knows a lot about computers here so I'll go and talk to him". He happened to be over the other side of the building so 5 minutes later she was back to tell me that he said I need to go and buy a connector from Radio Shack. Of course she being an old pro was referring to it is "the Shack". When I asked her what kind of connector I should get she said "I cannot remember what the computer expert told me a few minuts ago but they'll know at the Shack". Unreal...

You must be patient with these people however otherwise they get even worse. I asked her what connection out of the DVR I should use and what connection into my monitor I should use. This had her stumped and lumbering back across the building to the computer expert. Closer to 10 minutes later she was back. The walk seemed to overexert her as when she came back she was huffing and puffing like an old steam train. Anyway this time she had a completely different story for me. "Oh it's because you have a PC monitor that you cannot get the TV Guide. TV's have special stuff in them that prevents copyright theft and that's why you cannot ge the TV Guide. We even tried it out on his PC and it would not work - that's why I was so long."

At this point I gave up, thanked her kindly for her time and hung up. It blows my mind that Comcast does not have some kind of script that they run through to diagnose problems or at least a knowledge base to search on. Management is truly pathetic.

Now I know there are some real experts on this forum so can you give me any suggestions as to why I cannot use the guide on a PC monitor, regular Dell LCD with svideo, composite and dvi-d in?

Postscript: Wow I cannot believe I wrote for this long but it really is bugging me as my dvr is recording away and I cannot watch any of the programs.

When you have the STB set to display HD, it still downconverts the signal for all of the other ports but does not show the guide, menu, or flipbar. If you change the output settings for 480i you will get the menus. You do this by hitting menu while the STB is turned off.

I'm a little lost on why some of the ports on the back of the STB are disabled. Is this because they just haven't enabled them through the firmware? You would think that Motorola would have to have a fully functioning unit with all ports enabled before they ships these out.

Sorry, just wondering out loud.

Ski

It's not Motorola who decides what ports work it's the cable company.

Andrew Wees


I'm a little lost on why some of the ports on the back of the STB are disabled. Is this because they just haven't enabled them through the firmware? You would think that Motorola would have to have a fully functioning unit with all ports enabled before they ships these out.

Sorry, just wondering out loud.

Ski

It sure would be nice if someone with one of these PIII boxes could try the SATA port to see if it will take an expansion drive. I saw SATA drives at Costco over the weekend about $160 for a 350G drive. (internal) but it sould be easy to find a SATA external housing.

PLEASE someone let us know. The falll programs are about to start and I am storage space poor.

Thanks,
David

It's not Motorola who decides what ports work it's the cable company.

Andrew Wees
It doesn't seem like Motorola has the time to throughly develop these STB's, so they load them up with the different hardware options (usb ports and firewire ports and HDMI or DVI ports and component ports, etc.) and ship them out before the software is developed or before the cable co's decide what they want to do with them.

It can also be that the software is ready and the cable co's want to do it, but it is not cost effective for them to train service techs and CSR's on how to support these functions. Recording by firewire to a PC is a perfect example. People are doing it because there are knowledgeable people on this forum showing them how to, however your cable co's people are not nearly as talented.

Is it true that these phase 3 units have a ventilation fan built into the bottom? If so, does it make the box noisy?

It doesn't seem like Motorola has the time to throughly develop these STB's, so they load them up with the different hardware options (usb ports and firewire ports and HDMI or DVI ports and component ports, etc.) and ship them out before the software is developed or before the cable co's decide what they want to do with them.

Motorola is trying to build a box that appeals to several different companies. I think you're expecting that all features will necessarily appeal to all MSO planned feature rollouts. Doesn't work that way.

It can also be that the software is ready and the cable co's want to do it, but it is not cost effective for them to train service techs and CSR's on how to support these functions. Recording by firewire to a PC is a perfect example. People are doing it because there are knowledgeable people on this forum showing them how to, however your cable co's people are not nearly as talented.

It's easier to roll out hardware with these new capabilites as part of your normal DVR installs, then come in later with the software upgrade which can be pushed out to thousands at a time. If you prep the hardware and the software at the same time, you're forced to roll a truck for every customer who wants the new services. Simple logistics issue.

Who's to say the software isn't already in the can or close to being ready? We can all speculate.

The firewire example is not a good one, IMO. Any solution has to be plug and play and pretty much idiot proof to reach the masses. There is some hardware effort on the media storage side(Maxtor and Broadcom), so perhaps we'll see a mainstream solution being offered in the not too distant future.

Having just switched from DirecTiVo, here are my main gripes so far:

-- No way to save searches--you can create a series recording (like a Season Pass), but only if some episode of it is actually showing in the next few days (i.e. is in your guide). This isn't a huge deal, since I mostly relied on Season Passes rather than Wishlists, but it does mean that if there's a series that doesn't happen to be showing currently, you can't add a series recording for it.

-- It's more of a pain to enter the title for a search (you have to scroll through the whole alphabet instead of having a grid of letters).

-- If you accidentally try to turn off the box in the middle of a recording, it will ask if you want to cancel the recording. You basically should just leave the box on all the time. (This was true with the TiVos too, but they didn't have a power button at all on the remote, really, so you never had to worry about accidentally hitting it.)

-- Generally feels like more button presses to do simple things. The UI doesn't feel well-organized.



Just a note my cable co uses pioneer software and you can turn the box off in the middle of a recording and it keeps on recording just fine. Also when entering a title for a show you have a grid of letters. But my DVR uses pioneer software vs the tv guide stuff most use.

Anyone know if this box is available through Comcast in DC? Slightly off topic, what is the current state of the Comcast Tivo deal? The phase 3 units apparently have tivo-capable hardware - is a rollout coming?

I'll also join the chorus of those waiting to see if the SATA port works, but judging from the continued non-support of firewire drives, I'm not holding my breath.

Just received a DCT-6412 in Laurel, MD from Comcast today. Didn't quite realize what I had until after reading the forums! The only thing special that has been tested here is the firewire port for recording, which works like a charm. Hope to give the SATA port a spin soon.

Was having a problem getting one channel (232 NBC HD). Tech swapped the box out which didn't fix the problem but I noticed it didn't have DVI but did have HDMI and SATA.

Where can I buy a SATA drive to try and see if that port is active. Aren't all external HD's USB or Firewire? Never seen a SATA except for internal drives. I read somewhere you need to use a "special" drive.

I think you can get external housings that have a SATA interface to use with a standard IDE drive.

Check this thread for all the necessary pieces parts if you want to build your own.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559

Or you can get a Maxtor ot Seagate drive, check close to the end for that info.

Does anyone know if the 6412's SATA connector is supposed to be SATA I or SATA II? I checked the Motorola site but didn't see any info on the phase III.

jc - I was wondering the same thing myself - I was thinking of trying to call Motorola, but I couldn't find the support number - they have zero documentation on the new box.

Does anyone know if the 6412's SATA connector is supposed to be SATA I or SATA II? I checked the Motorola site but didn't see any info on the phase III.I would bet it would be I, but you never know- they seemed to have gone all out this time around.

It would be nice if we could buy our own boxes with Comcast soon. I wouldn't mind shelling out $400 for this thing, it definitely seems worth it, especially if they enable SATA support.

Hey Guys,

I've had my 6412 phase III box for about 2 weeks now. A few observations.

1. The tuner is slower than on my previous 6412 (w/ the DVI port). There is also a noticeably longer audio delay when changing channels. Audio lags behind video by about 3 seconds. I personally find this annoying.
2. There is a built-in fan on the bottom of the unit, which is very quiet. It cannot be heard, even when standing directly in front of the unit.
3. Even with the cooling fan, the phase III units seem to run a little hotter than on all my previous 6412 units (w/ DVI port).
4. Other than the simplicity of the HDMI port (providing both video and audio to my plasma), I find little or no improvement over my previous 6412 units.

I'm actually on my third phase III box. The first two had some PQ issues when using the HDMI port.

Haven't tried the SATA port. However, I seriously doubt Comcast would enable this connection to its customers.

Warning,

if someone does try a external HD, be warned, the 6412 STB will format both the internal & the external drive.

Warning,

if someone does try a external HD, be warned, the 6412 STB will format both the internal & the external drive.So have you actually tried it?

Can someone with a 6412 Phase 3 on Comcast with Iguide confirm whether the 30 second skip still works?

The new Phase III 6412 does have the 30 second skip.

The new Phase III 6412 does have the 30 second skip.

Thats good to hear! Elsewhere it was reported that firmware 10.10 kills 30 second skip (presumably on a phase 2). Since the phase 3 is reported to run 12.18, I wondered.

It would seem that the 10.10 report is either a provider/guide issue, or the phase 3 12.18 is in a different development line.

"The new Phase III 6412 does have the 30 second skip."

Didn't realize I have this functionality on my phase III unit (firmware 12.18). What button activates this on the remote?

SneakyPete - you have to program it - search the 6412 w/Iguide thread for the instructions. I attached it to one of the PIP buttons which are unused. I made the other one into cable box un-mute which is needed when a recording starts when the box is off (also in the other thread).

"The new Phase III 6412 does have the 30 second skip."

Didn't realize I have this functionality on my phase III unit (firmware 12.18). What button activates this on the remote?
How to program the remote for 30, 60, 90, 120 (and
more) Second Skip

Create a 30 second skip using the following
directions:

1) Press the "Cable" button at the top of the remote
to put it into
Cable Box control mode.
2) Press and hold the "Setup" button until the
"Cable" button blinks twice.
3) Type in the code 994. The "Cable" button will
blink twice
4) Press (do not hold) the "Setup" button
5) Type in the code 00173 for 30 second Skip.
6) Press whatever button you want to map the skip
to.

Next, you create a macro using your new 30 second
skip:

1) Press and hold down the "Setup" button until the
light blinks twice.
2) Press 995.
3) Press the key you want to assign the X second
skip to.
4) Press the button that you have used for the 30
second skip x times.
(2 times for 60 seconds, 3 times for 90 seconds, and
so on.)
5) Press and hold the "Setup" button until the light
blinks twice to
exit programming.

X = 30, 60, 90, 180, etc.



How to program the remote to control the mute on the
cable box instead of the tv.

1. Press the cable button
2. Press and hold setup until it blinks twice then
let
go
3. Press 994
4. Press setup and release
5. Press 00141
6. Press the mute button


Clear the Memory & HD

1. DCT6412 should be turned on
2. Press Cable, Power off, ok/Select, to bring up the
Diagnostics Page
3. With diagnostics page showing press Replay (15-sec
rewind), DVR, DVR, DVR, Live.
4. 6412 now should show "Clr" in the LED display.
5. Press ok/Select to proceed with the reset (and
presumably Exit to cancel).
6. The 6412 should now reset and download Your account
settings & Guide data from the Local headend."

The following is NOT the facory reset, it is only the Clear the Memory & HD.

1. DCT6412 should be turned on
2. Press Cable, Power off, ok/Select, to bring up the
Diagnostics Page
3. With diagnostics page showing press Replay (15-sec
rewind), DVR, DVR, DVR, Live.
4. 6412 now should show "Clr" in the LED display.
5. Press ok/Select to proceed with the reset (and
presumably Exit to cancel).
6. The 6412 should now reset and download Your account
settings & Guide data from the Local headend."

If anyone needs a copy of the 6412 installer setup guide, please pm me with your email addy.

Has anyone experimented swapping out the existing HD with a larger one?

For instance, does anyone know if the contents of a factory fresh existing 6412 HD could be completely copied to a new (larger) HD to obtain a larger amount of recording space? The original drive could then be stored in a safe place should the box ever need to be returned to Comcast.

Is this at all possible?

I know there are tools available that allow you to replace your existing TiVo drive with a larger drive, so what about this box?

The following is NOT the facory reset, it is only the Clear the Memory & HD.

1. DCT6412 should be turned on
2. Press Cable, Power off, ok/Select, to bring up the
Diagnostics Page
3. With diagnostics page showing press Replay (15-sec
rewind), DVR, DVR, DVR, Live.
4. 6412 now should show "Clr" in the LED display.
5. Press ok/Select to proceed with the reset (and
presumably Exit to cancel).
6. The 6412 should now reset and download Your account
settings & Guide data from the Local headend."

If anyone needs a copy of the 6412 installer setup guide, please pm me with your email addy.
Okay, I corrected the post. I think I got that from you, no..? :)

I post that whenever someone asks one of the questions...can you PM me with the factory reset? That way I can have all of the info in one spot.

Has anyone experimented swapping out the existing HD with a larger one?

For instance, does anyone know if the contents of a factory fresh existing 6412 HD could be completely copied to a new (larger) HD to obtain a larger amount of recording space? The original drive could then be stored in a safe place should the box ever need to be returned to Comcast.

Is this at all possible?

I know there are tools available that allow you to replace your existing TiVo drive with a larger drive, so what about this box?
There's a big difference between upgrading your tivo (and invalidating its warrantee) and opening up the 6412. Specifically, you OWN the tivo. You do not own the 6412 - you rent it.

So people would much prefer to find out that the SATA connection will work with an external drive and that the cable company will allow the expansion, rather than violate their contract by opening up the box. Don't forget that the 6412 is a two-way communication device. If you mess with it, they may be able to detect that quite easily.

But if you're volunteering to give it a go, please keep up posted! :)

There's a big difference between upgrading your tivo (and invalidating its warrantee) and opening up the 6412. Specifically, you OWN the tivo. You do not own the 6412 - you rent it.


Yeah that is why I am hesitant about opening it up, even to just take a peak at the insides. I wish I could just buy the box instead of renting it, like I did with my TiVos. Once the 90 day warranty was up...it was open season. ;-) I was calculating my weekly HD recording and its going to be tight with only 15 hours of time. In the past with my upgraded SD TiVos I would get behind on some shows by as many as 4 or more episodes. Now I'll have to make sure I watch everything pretty much righ away or I'll run out of room very quickly. :(



So people would much prefer to find out that the SATA connection will work with an external drive and that the cable company will allow the expansion, rather than violate their contract by opening up the box.


Would someone please try this so I know if I should hound Comcast for a phase 3 box when I sign up. If I had the box and an external SATA drive I'd give it a shot, but unfortunately I don't . From what I've read, it sounds like the firewire port is only for backing up, not for extending the storage space.


Don't forget that the 6412 is a two-way communication device. If you mess with it, they may be able to detect that quite easily.


I know, that's another reason why I am very hesitant about ever opening the box when I do get it.


But if you're volunteering to give it a go, please keep up posted! :)

Nope, not gonna be the guinnea pig on this one :D

From what some of the Comcast techs have told me, they have tried a External SATA HD and it works, it did cause both of the HD, internal & External to be formated.

Thats all I know. :)

From what some of the Comcast techs have told me, they have tried a External SATA HD and it works, it did cause both of the HD, internal & External to be formated.

Thats all I know. :)When I see it I'll believe it.

As for opening up a rented box, be prepared to pay big fines or even lose your cable service permanently.

From what some of the Comcast techs have told me, they have tried a External SATA HD and it works, it did cause both of the HD, internal & External to be formated.

Thats all I know. :)
Excellent, now all I need is the new box...they're being bench tested for deployment in the SF bay area right now.... :)

SneakyPete - In your post you said you were on your 3rd phase III box due to PQ issues. What kind of issues did you have. On mine HD looks fine but the rest of the stations (digital and analog) seem odd. It's like maybe they have slightly blurred the image to hide noise (not that you'd need to do that on digital stations but I can see how it might help analog ones.) I notice it mostly on people's faces. Not horrible but I noticed it after swapping out the Phase II for a Phase III.

Other issues.
1. The tuner does seem a little slower. I notice it most when repeatedly pressing FF or RR. Sometime 15 seconds go by and then suddenly it catches us with the button presses I made. The Phase II did this too but it seems a little worse.

2. The fan is very quite...how quite? I didn't even know it had one until SneakyPete's post. Actually I noticed the hard disk chirping is quiter in the Phase III than the Phase II.

Wish I knew where to get an external drive with a SATA drive connectior to try out on the machine.

Erics & Keenan, Thanks for the great tip & instructions for programing the skip function on the remote. Very useful. I love this forum!!!

Does the new RF output on these phase 3s just provide a pass through of the cable signal, or is it a modulated output that shows whatever the 6412 is displaying on its other outputs?

jc,

The issues I had were mainly with PQ on the HD channels (specifically Discovery HD). I thought the first two phase III boxes were defective, because I was getting some jitter and alot of jaggies on Discovery HD when outputting 1080i from the box. Changing the output setting to 720p helped but did not eliminate the problem. However, the 720p setting made the PQ on all other HD channels a little softer than with 1080i (at least on my particular display... Panny 50PX50U).

By comparison, the PQ on all HD channels was simply amazing on my previous generation 6412 (w/ the DVI port) with both the 1080i and 720p setting (with the slight edge going to the 1080i setting). I was just not seeing the same jaw dropping PQ from newer phase III units.

It wasn't until I got my third phase III box that I realized there was/is a broadcast issue with Discovery HD (as reported by others in the forum). Nevertheless, the jitter and jaggies are almost completely gone with my third phase III, even with the desired 1080i setting. Also, I am now getting the same amazing PQ with both the 1080i and 720p setting.

Other issues I had with the first two phase III units were
1. the box would self activate its mute function
2. occasionally, the remote would freeze and then 5-10 seconds later, the box would recognize & execute all the buttons/functions I pressed while the remote was frozen. This still happens on my third phase III box, but not nearly as often.

I did not notice much difference in the standard digital or analog channels between the older 6412 and phase III... probably because I was so focused on the HD channels.

Hope this helps.

This is not first hand information, but a guy at work told me that his buddy replaced the hard drive inside his 6208 or the next model up (I can't remember which) with a larger drive and it automatically formatted the drive to the same size as the original drive, but it does work. You can't get more space, but you can archive hard drives.

This is not first hand information, but a guy at work told me that his buddy replaced the hard drive inside his 6208 or the next model up (I can't remember which) with a larger drive and it automatically formatted the drive to the same size as the original drive, but it does work. You can't get more space, but you can archive hard drives.

I apologize if this has been mentioned before, but be careful about "archiving" programming, either on the internal drive or the external SATA drive.

SA told me that with their box, because of the copy protection security features, if you have to change out you DVR box any content recorded with the old box WILL NOT PLAY through the new box. The security keys are different. There's no provision to change the key numbers

I'm not sure if the same thing will happen with Moto boxes. I don't have SATA on my unit.

I can see why this would be required by Hollywood (mass duplication of digital content on SATA drives) but it sux that you can't change the key in YOUR replacement box so that content recorded BY YOU can still be played.

Geez guys! Stop posting assumptions and somebody just try the thing. It's pointless until then.

Geez guys! Stop posting assumptions and somebody just try the thing. It's pointless until then.
I guarantee you, I soon as I get my hands on one I'll be trying it, I still can't believe nobody has tried it yet.

I guarantee you, I soon as I get my hands on one I'll be trying it, I still can't believe nobody has tried it yet.

Your Cable Head-end might not have that function enabled for there users Yet.

Can someone summarize the differences among the three phases of 6412 DVRs?
And approximately when they were each released.
Thanks

Your Cable Head-end might not have that function enabled for there users Yet.
The Phase III has not been released in the SF bay area yet, they are in the warehouse though, one of the posters in the SF Comcast thread works for Comcast and is keeping us up to date on the progress of getting them on the street. He was going to bench-test a Phase III with a SATA drive and get back to us. If it works for him it should work throughout the bay area, hopefully.

I wish I could just buy the box instead of renting it, like I did with my TiVos. Once the 90 day warranty was up...it was open season. ;-)
I didn't even wait 90 days. As soon as I knew the unit wasn't a lemon, that baby was upgraded. :)

I was calculating my weekly HD recording and its going to be tight with only 15 hours of time.
First off, I get about 20 hours of HD on my 6412. Secondly, I had the same problem with weekly shows. What I ended up doing was keeping my tivo for all non-HD programming, as well as shows that, although available in HD, don't lose much by being in SD (like sitcoms). I just chose the "beautiful" shows (Lost, Alias, etc) and kept up with watching them so I wouldn't max out the drive.

Regarding the external port, look at the silver lining. By the time someone determines that it can be done and perfects the procedure, huge hard drives will be that much cheaper. :)

I been waiting for someone else to try by it looks like I'll have to do it before the new series start. I bought a 500gb hard drive external sata case and a Esata
cable. It should be here tue. , i'll let you know how this pans out
cross your fingers :eek:

They're crossed, both hands and feet... :D

I been waiting for someone else to try by it looks like I'll have to do it before the new series start. I bought a 500gb hard drive external sata case and a Esata cable. It should be here tue. , i'll let you know how this pans out
cross your fingers :eek:
If you get it to work, you will be the hero of this thread (and a few others, too).

:D

First off, I get about 20 hours of HD on my 6412.
Which is to be expected sometimes, as Motorola claims 12-20 hours of HD capacity.

I just ordered Comcast digital cable and I will have two 6412 boxes installed later this week. I will throw in a 200GB SATA HDD that I have to test it out.
I don't know why so many here are so paranoid about doing this. Just power the 6412 down, take the cover off neatly, unplug the old SATA drive (make sure you have discharged any static or wear a static strap), plug in the new HDD, power it up and see what the 6412 says for hdd space. Remember that it will likely format your drive when the device powers up.
Some of you act as if Comcast is going to come to your house at 3AM with a SWAT team, break down your doors and repel through the skylights to arrest you for taking the cover off of the DVR box and testing another hard drive with it.
Just try it for yourself, if it works post it here, if not put the cover back on and enjoy your 15hrs of HD recordings and hopefully there will be a way to add a HDD externally soon. Oh and post it here too if it doesn't work.
I don't mean to upset/offend anyone but c'mon. If you are too afraid because you lack competence with swapping the HDD, that is fine, I can understand that. If you feel it unethical because you did not purchase the 6412 outright, then why are you even reading this forum in the first place and tempting yourself :-)? It seems that likely everyone here wants and is willing to try this but no one wants to be the first one.
If no one has tried this by later this week I will be happy to try it and I will post the results as soon as I get the box installed.

I just ordered Comcast digital cable and I will have two 6412 boxes installed later this week. I will throw in a 200GB SATA HDD that I have to test it out.
I don't know why so many here are so paranoid about doing this. Just power the 6412 down, take the cover off neatly, unplug the old SATA drive (make sure you have discharged any static or wear a static strap), plug in the new HDD, power it up and see what the 6412 says for hdd space. Remember that it will likely format your drive when the device powers up.
Some of you act as if Comcast is going to come to your house at 3AM with a SWAT team, break down your doors and repel through the skylights to arrest you for taking the cover off of the DVR box and testing another hard drive with it.
Just try it for yourself, if it works post it here, if not put the cover back on and enjoy your 15hrs of HD recordings and hopefully there will be a way to add a HDD externally soon. Oh and post it here too if it doesn't work.
I don't mean to upset/offend anyone but c'mon. If you are too afraid because you lack competence with swapping the HDD, that is fine, I can understand that. If you feel it unethical because you did not purchase the 6412 outright, then why are you even reading this forum in the first place and tempting yourself :-)? It seems that likely everyone here wants and is willing to try this but no one wants to be the first one.
If no one has tried this by later this week I will be happy to try it and I will post the results as soon as I get the box installed.

did you even read this thread?? Were talking **External** SATA drives..... you cant just put a bigger drive inside of a 6412....the Firmware will only see 120GBs

did you even read this thread?? Were talking **External** SATA drives..... you cant just put a bigger drive inside of a 6412....the Firmware will only see 120GBs


I did read the whole thread (while watching a tv program the whole time :-)) so I guess that I missed the main point with the external drive. I just saw several threads referring to the fact they they would not be the first to test this out. Now that you say it is external I really don't know what people are worried about.
I will look over the thread again.

I looked over the threads again and was confused with the posts about pulling open the cover etc.

OK cool, I will try with SATA port as soon as I get it, assuming I get the new version of the 6412.

Just received a DCT-6412 in Laurel, MD from Comcast today. Didn't quite realize what I had until after reading the forums! The only thing special that has been tested here is the firewire port for recording, which works like a charm. Hope to give the SATA port a spin soon.

I am assuming you used the process outlined in the thread below to get the Firewire port working for recording with a PC? I skimmed over that thread and found a lot of people with problems when trying to get it to work. If you know of better way of getting it to work than outlined in that thread please post it on the tread below.

HowTO record via 1394/Firewire to WindowsXP (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695)

I just got one of the phase III's, and the problem I'm having is hard drive noise. This thing chirps so much, I keep looking for birds.

This is the first moto box I've had, so I can't compare it to anything. I do have ReplayTV I upgraded with a 300GB Seagate drive; I never hear it. It seems like they forgot to turn on the acoustic management on the moto box. I see it also uses a Seagate drive.

Can anyone comment on the noise these typically make?

.... you cant just put a bigger drive inside of a 6412....the Firmware will only see 120GBs

Is this known for sure on the Phase 2? I've never actually seen a posting reported to have tried it. Actually, I haven't even seen a posting from anyone that opened a phase 2. On my phase2 the firmware reports the drive as a "st3120025ace" which is actually an ATA-100 drive.

Can anyone comment on the noise these typically make?Yes, my older box has a Seagate drive and is pretty loud. As soon as the newer boxes are available here I'll trade it in. YMMV- I guess some are just louder than others. Just keep trading it in until you find one that's acceptable.

Well, I sent in my SATA question to Motorola tech support - question and response follow. Their answer is: Currently not supported, maybe Q1/Q2 next year.

Of course, this could be the "official" answer, so still waiting back to hear dukeeee's experiemetn and hoping it works....especially since the response looks like the typical outsourced to India support BS...

Question (I had to send a followup when they didn't answer after a coupe days):

I have a DCT6412 Phase III with the HDMI and SATA outputs provided by Comcast, Willoughby, OH. This is a relatively new box and the tech support folks at Comcast are not familiar with it.

My question: Is the SATA port on the back enabled? If so, is it SATA or SATA II and are there any specific requirements for using it (specific hard drive manufacturer/model, max harddrive size, etc)?

Also, are the USB or FireWire ports enabled for external hard drives?

I am trying to expand my storage and would appreciate any information you have on the topic. All the information on your website appears to pertain to the Phase II box.

Thanks.

Answer:

I apologize for the inconvenience you are having with this product, and the delay in the response. SATA I, not enabled yet. We are trying to get it in for Q1/Q2 next year, but this depends on MSO's deploying the firmware. It also depends on when applications support the additional HDD.

Been reading this thread / forum this Labor Day weekend.
Have a 6412 phase I or II but just SD TV. Now in market for HDTV so reading about experiences in forum - thanks for all the info....
Comment/question: Like everyone in this thread, anxiously waiting for confirmation on external SATA support. Noted the comments that supposedly the internal & external drives will reformat when the external drive is connected. OK. But assuming someone gets this going (dukeee sounds well on his way - fingers crossed here), can you (dukeee or someone) also test scenarios when the external drive gets disconnected or loses power? I periodically have to unplug my 6412 (either to hard reboot or just cause the rats nest of wires needs redo-ing). I am concerned that if the 6412 phase III reboots and doesnt see the external drive it saw before, and hence total disk space is less, it will reformat the internal drive with no warning. Reasonable fear? Better to power up the external drive first before the 6412 if you need to unplug / reboot? What about if your house loses power for a brief period? What if the Sata connection comes loose? would have to have 15 hrs of HD or 80-100 hrs of sd on the internal drive and have it reformat when a connection to SATA drives comes loose or loses power or is rebooted in the wrong order. Paranoid? Pointless conjecture without one to try? I would try to swap my 6412 for a phase III but I have many many hours of SD programming on drive that I still have to archive to DVD - still have to work on getting the firewire playback to work. but thats a different thread.........
Any comments on my fears of reformat when the SATA is disconnected somehow?

Been reading this thread / forum this Labor Day weekend.
Have a 6412 phase I or II but just SD TV. Now in market for HDTV so reading about experiences in forum - thanks for all the info....
Comment/question: Like everyone in this thread, anxiously waiting for confirmation on external SATA support. Noted the comments that supposedly the internal & external drives will reformat when the external drive is connected. OK. But assuming someone gets this going (dukeee sounds well on his way - fingers crossed here), can you (dukeee or someone) also test scenarios when the external drive gets disconnected or loses power? I periodically have to unplug my 6412 (either to hard reboot or just cause the rats nest of wires needs redo-ing). I am concerned that if the 6412 phase III reboots and doesnt see the external drive it saw before, and hence total disk space is less, it will reformat the internal drive with no warning. Reasonable fear? Better to power up the external drive first before the 6412 if you need to unplug / reboot? What about if your house loses power for a brief period? What if the Sata connection comes loose? would have to have 15 hrs of HD or 80-100 hrs of sd on the internal drive and have it reformat when a connection to SATA drives comes loose or loses power or is rebooted in the wrong order. Paranoid? Pointless conjecture without one to try? I would try to swap my 6412 for a phase III but I have many many hours of SD programming on drive that I still have to archive to DVD - still have to work on getting the firewire playback to work. but thats a different thread.........
Any comments on my fears of reformat when the SATA is disconnected somehow?

First of all, your cable Head end must have the External Drive Option enabled on the cable system for it to work. The current Comcast Firmware of 09.19 & the testing 09.21 does not currently have it in the firmware.

Once you have the drive formated, you can remove the cable & HD all you want, you would have to do the HD CLR key presses to reformat the HD. The system will only format a HD that is not formated to the style used by the STB.

You can have a max of 9 Drives total connected to the STB, 8 external + 1 Internal.

The test of the phase 3 6412 was done at a Local Head-end Test Shop, where they also have testing the newer mode 10.xx firmware for the 6400 series of STB.

The system will only format a HD that is not formated to the style used by the STB.
Which file system does the STB use? Is it PC-compatible?
(I did search.)

Which file system does the STB use? Is it PC-compatible?
(I did search.)

It is not pc compatible using any of the current windows FAT or NTFS formats.

Has anyone tried it with any type of server OS HD Format ect?

I been waiting for someone else to try by it looks like I'll have to do it before the new series start. I bought a 500gb hard drive external sata case and a Esata
cable. It should be here tue. , i'll let you know how this pans out
cross your fingers :eek:


Chances are 0 that this will work :>

You may want to pull the internal drive and use a piece of hardware to copy the entire drive and it's proprietary format. This will probably be your only shot.

It is not pc compatible using any of the current windows FAT or NTFS formats.

Has anyone tried it with any type of server OS HD Format ect?
I think it's a Unix/Linux type file system.

I think it's a Unix/Linux type file system.

someone should call Motorola and ask them, it is there box after all! :)

someone should call Motorola and ask them, it is there box after all! :)
I looked around at the Motorola site and their DACs and other cable related equipment runs on SCO Unix so I'll bet the DCT series runs on it as well. I used wo know my way around SCO's stuff(net admin for a trucking company) and it's pretty secure stuff. Very unlikely a home user would be able to hack anything if it's being used.

there is no partition table on the disk......

Good news and bad news !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good news
I recieved the ups package yesterday with the hdd and the sata case
bad news
They sent me the WRONG cable they sent a sata type 1 to type 1 not a type 1 to type type 2 cable that I needed.
they sent out the new one and I should have it by 4:30 0n thurs.
so we all have to wait one more day to see if this works or we are shiat out of luck

What type of SATA connector is on the back of P3 ? "I", "L", type I, type II ?

bump

sorry I tried to bump to get 5 post so I could post a url but couldn't.......
but to answer your question type 2 sata

the sata connection on the back of a sata hdd is a type 1
they make type 2 extrnal cases but cost ALOT more than the type 1
so i went with type1 and a type 1 to type 2 to cable

hey got the 5 post mark and now here is a picture of the cables

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.macgurus.com/ccp51/media/images/category/sata/eSATA_TypA_lrg.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.macgurus.com/productpages/sata/SATACables.php&h=757&w=1152&sz=89&tbnid=cg4-xB8D5H8J:&tbnh=98&tbnw=150&hl=en&start=2&prev=/images%3Fq%3Desata%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DGG LG,GGLG:2005-21,GGLG:en%26sa%3DN

this shows the difference betwen sata and esata cable

Responding to my question about the compatibility of the 6412 Phase III with the Maxtor Quick View Expander 300G, Customer Service at Maxtor had the following response:
Currently I am not seeing why the Comcast 6412 and the Maxtor QuickView Expander 300GB would not work since both of them have External Serial ATA (ESATA) connectors. If you have any additional questions, please let me know.
http://www.maxstore.com/product.asp?sku=2663284

Responding to my question about the compatibility of the 6412 Phase III with the Maxtor Quick View Expander 300G, Customer Service at Maxtor had the following response:
Currently I am not seeing why the Comcast 6412 and the Maxtor QuickView Expander 300GB would not work since both of them have External Serial ATA (ESATA) connectors. If you have any additional questions, please let me know.
http://www.maxstore.com/product.asp?sku=2663284Yeah, sure, it will work, but it's not up to Maxtor to enable that feature in the box- it's your cable co's.

For what it's worth (which probably isn't much) I had to get another phase III box (the last one would freeze up after 3-5 hours of being on). I was asking the tech if Comcast had any plans for the SATA port. He said he hadn't heard of any. That doesn't say whether the port works or not obviously but it sounds like Comcast isn't planning on (intentionally) using it in the near term.

...and case anyone cares both Phase II boxes had Seagate drives in them. They were both much quieter than whatever was in the Phase II boxes.

I still get the sense though that somehow the compression they're using on the streams when they write to disk are either different or a higher level of compression because they appear slightly grainer than the phase II boxes. On my phase II box there was a clear difference between analog and digital channels. TechTV here (Ann Arbor, MI) is broadcast both analog and digital and with the phase II box the digial channel really jumped out as you as clear and sharp. That doesn't seem to be the case now with the phase III.

If I understand correctly, the digital channels should be recorded byte-for-byte exactly as they're received -- the box doesn't do any additional compression on digital channels.

[QUOTE=scanpa]It is not pc compatible using any of the current windows FAT or NTFS formats.
QUOTE]
There are more PC files systems than just Microsoft's, e.g., *nix.

If I understand correctly, the digital channels should be recorded byte-for-byte exactly as they're received -- the box doesn't do any additional compression on digital channels.

That's my understanding. Only the analog channels (2-99) require re-encoding. This is where the phase III box makes a difference. The improved chip set makes a big difference in the analog picture quality. Maybe that's why jc1455 felt the older box handled digital channels better; the analog channels just looked *that* much worse.

Another factor is EVERYTHING coming out of the STB is scaled to the format selected in the firmware screen. Hopefully it is just a pass-through when input source matches the output format.

Well Who wants to know if it worked???????

Well Who wants to know if it worked???????

I think we all do!!
:eek:

But, I have a feeling it doesn't. :(

Well Who wants to know if it worked???????


We want to know?

Please tell us exactly what you did, and how you did it please.

Well since I haven't seen a new thread titled Motorola 6412 eSATA WORKS!!!!

I'll assume that it doesn't.

I'm curious if it did anything at all----

You if it worked I would of been to happy to keep it to myself. it didn't do anything, I powered dowen the STB and connected the drive powered up the STB nothing check the diag menu under hard drive only one listed.
nexted I removed power cord waited a few minutes and powered it back up still nothing, was wait for it to ask to format but no go.
If there is something you think I could try that I didn't please send it my way but I feed this will have to wait until a firmware update (currently 12.18 ) to try again .
sorry guys buy I toss $225 at this and it didn't stick

You if it worked I would of been to happy to keep it to myself. it didn't do anything, I powered dowen the STB and connected the drive powered up the STB nothing check the diag menu under hard drive only one listed.
nexted I removed power cord waited a few minutes and powered it back up still nothing, was wait for it to ask to format but no go.
If there is something you think I could try that I didn't please send it my way but I feed this will have to wait until a firmware update (currently 12.18 ) to try again .
sorry guys buy I toss $225 at this and it didn't stick

under the diagnostic menu, check to see if the SATA port is listed as Active or non active.

as far as I can tell the port page doesn't list the sata port thats why I thought it would work. under the hard drive page it has number of hard drives installed 1
but after esata it still stated 1 so I'm not sure there is a place to verify the sata port active ??

dukeeee:
Thank you for your effort and information.

Maybe if you do a factory reboot/reload with the drive connected..?

You could try replacing the internal drive (assuming its sata) with the one from the external enclusoure to see if it will use it, and if it gets more than 128GB.

how do you do a factory reload ?????

how do you do a factory reload ?????


This is a Full reset, it will then start a New Install Boot up DL

1) Hold down the Power and Menu buttons, while continuing to hold them down, remove the power cord from the DCT STB, keep holding them down for 30-45 seconds, keep holding them down and put power back to the box. Now you should see "boot" in the front panel.

2) This is the boot menu, use the STB channel up/dn to find the nu dl or some other similar indication, make sure you are connected to the cable, hit "select" this should trigger a new download from Your Cable Headend service provider to map the channels and update your firmware with theirs.


This will not erase your HD or DVR Recording settings.

What's really burning me is that if I lived across the river in Virginia, the very same Comcast would give me a SA8300 box with a functional SATA port. But no, I'm in DC with higher taxes and stuck with a 15 hour 6412 :( I'm not bitter, really!

Here is what I received from my provider CableOne and their case with Motorola:


Hi Mike
As you can see by the e-mail form Brent the SATA port will not work at this time. Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: Barksdale, Brent
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:25 PM
To: Barksdale, Brent; Wignes, Robert; Phoenix Office - Digital Team
Subject: RE: Web Form Submittal (Sioux City Local Office Contact Form)


Fuzzy,



Sorry it took so long to answer this question. I have just been informed from Motorola that the SATA port is not enabled at this time and there is no ETA on when it will be enabled.



Thanks


__________________________

J. Brent Barksdale



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barksdale, Brent
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 7:28 AM
To: Wignes, Robert; Phoenix Office - Digital Team
Subject: RE: Web Form Submittal (Sioux City Local Office Contact Form)



I have opened a case with MOT (case #0509-0268) and am awaiting a response.



Thanks

Sorry guys the full reset didn't work either
guess we'll just have to deal with 15 hrs of recording time

Hi folks,

New here but have followed a few threads including this one for a while. dukeeee can you try one other thing depending on whether or not your willing to clear out your hard drive or dont have to many recordings on it right now that you'll miss or can quickly catch up on. How about resetting the hard drive. Go into the STB's diagnostic menu then hit "replay 3X, MyDVR 3x, & Live 3X) this will reset & re-format the Hard Drive causing all of the existing data on it to clear, it will bring it to 0% used. All of the guide data will need to reload, might be worth a shot if your willing to try. Thanks for your efforts.

Comcast just came today to install my new Phase III Moto box. The installer was pretty clueless. It was still getting all the guide data when I left this morning. The one thing that concerned me was that the HD picture seemed to stutter a bit. Every 30 seconds it almost looked like the picture would pause for about a half-sec and then it would continue. Very strange. I'm hoping that was because the box was doing a bunch of other things at the time.

Non-HD channels didn't seem to have this issue. I'm not sure if it was the box that was doing it, or a bad source. It would occur on any HD channel that I put it on. I wasn't seeing this behavior on my HTPC (myHD card) which leads me to believe its not the source, but the box itself.

Has anyone else seen this issue or something similar?

Thanks

-Brett

I had major "stuttering" on my HD channels when I added a second HD DVR box, and split the cable with a cheap radioshack splitter. You should check how strong your cable signal is, as that was my issue.

Replacing my splitter with a higher quality one solved my problem.

Hi folks,

New here but have followed a few threads including this one for a while. dukeeee can you try one other thing depending on whether or not your willing to clear out your hard drive or dont have to many recordings on it right now that you'll miss or can quickly catch up on. How about resetting the hard drive. Go into the STB's diagnostic menu then hit "replay 3X, MyDVR 3x, & Live 3X) this will reset & re-format the Hard Drive causing all of the existing data on it to clear, it will bring it to 0% used. All of the guide data will need to reload, might be worth a shot if your willing to try. Thanks for your efforts.


The correct sequence to CLR the HD is

goto the Diagnostics page:

Replay
MyDVR
MyDVR
MyDVR
Live

Comcast just came today to install my new Phase III Moto box. The installer was pretty clueless. It was still getting all the guide data when I left this morning. The one thing that concerned me was that the HD picture seemed to stutter a bit. Every 30 seconds it almost looked like the picture would pause for about a half-sec and then it would continue. Very strange. I'm hoping that was because the box was doing a bunch of other things at the time.

Non-HD channels didn't seem to have this issue. I'm not sure if it was the box that was doing it, or a bad source. It would occur on any HD channel that I put it on. I wasn't seeing this behavior on my HTPC (myHD card) which leads me to believe its not the source, but the box itself.

Has anyone else seen this issue or something similar?

Thanks

-Brett

Something similar happened to me while the cable guy was still here. The picture looked like it was dropping every other frame. Amazingly, the cable guy tried to blame it on the channel despite the fact that we could see it on any HD channel I tried (after he said he didn't see anything wrong!). Happily, after about 10 minutes (and turning the box off/on), everything was fine. I've been using it for over 10 days without a glitch.

Something similar happened to me while the cable guy was still here. The picture looked like it was dropping every other frame. Amazingly, the cable guy tried to blame it on the channel despite the fact that we could see it on any HD channel I tried (after he said he didn't see anything wrong!). Happily, after about 10 minutes (and turning the box off/on), everything was fine. I've been using it for over 10 days without a glitch.

Well it seems to be gone now...
Now for the next problem.

I was just recording Gilmore Girls and Bones at the same time (in HD) and I was watching Bones (a little time-shifted, while it was still recording), when all of a sudden it completely froze up. I didn't know what to do, I think I pressed the "My DVR" and "on demand" buttons, may have pressed play and menu. When it unstuck about a minute later, I saw a message pop up that said are you sue you want to change the channel and stop recording. I chose the thing that looked like a record button which said it would stay on the channel and continue recording.

Well I got about 32 minutes into Bones when the recording just stopped and asked if I wanted to delete it. So I deleted that show, but then I noticed that for some reason Gilmore Girls had only recorded 35 minutes. Could I have accidentally stopped the recording somehow.

When I chose these shows from the DVR menu they looked like they were still recording, and pressing info made it look like they were the right length. Any idea what may have caused the freeze up, or what I can do to keep that from happening again?

I was under the impression that you could record two things at once and watch something you recorded, or an on-demand program at the same time.

How do I switch between the tuners if I am recording something and want to watch another show live on the other tuner, w/o stopping my show that is currently recording?


Thanks

Sorry for all the questions. Used to my nice and easy TiVo interface...TiVo this is not!

Switching to an on-demand show will cancel one of your recordings, but yes you can watch a previously recorded show at the same time as two recordings.

Fan noise:

I needed additional storage space so I went and got another 6412 today - I asked for the HDMI model since my tv has no more free component inputs.

Now that I plugged it in, the fan started up a minute or so after plugging in, and it is pretty darn annoying. I'm definitely going to have to take it back, and probably be forced to ask for a non-HDMI model and move my DVD player to use a s-video input on my tv.

The noise first of all fluctuates constantly, from higher speeds to lower. Secondly it is very noticable from 8 feet away - you can hear it over the tv audio. Loudness I would say is somewhere between a laptop fan and a noisy PC fan - plus there is a whirring quality to the noise in addition to the usual "air" noise.

Maybe I got a bad unit since no one else has complained?

As a test I tried running it without the fan by blocking the blades from moving, but over the course of an hour the hard drive temperature went up towards 150 F, so clearly these phase IIIs definitely need a fan.

Does anyone actually know what Comcast's plan is for increasing DVR disk storage?

They conceivably could do it with usb or firewire drives on any phase of 6412, or require a phase 3 and do SATA, or just provide units with larger internal drives. They could allow user supplied external drives, or force you to rent one from them.

Have they ever said which of these options they are going to actually do?

The fan in my Phase III unit is whisper quiet. The same can not be said for the hdd itself... it chatters quite a bit. Sometimes I pause what I'm watching just to let the hdd catch its breath.

mr2828 - it sounds like you got a bad unit.

I have noticed one disturbing trend. If I'm recording an HD channel, the other tuner seems to be dropping frames while watching another HD show. This doesn't happen all the time, but it has happened often enough for me to take notice. If this sort of thing is resolved by a firmware update, I may never see it since my cable co. (RCN Lehigh Valley) doesn't seem interested in pushing down updates.

The fan in my Phase III unit is whisper quiet. The same can not be said for the hdd itself... it chatters quite a bit. Sometimes I pause what I'm watching just to let the hdd catch its breath.

mr2828 - it sounds like you got a bad unit.

I have noticed one disturbing trend. If I'm recording an HD channel, the other tuner seems to be dropping frames while watching another HD show. This doesn't happen all the time, but it has happened often enough for me to take notice. If this sort of thing is resolved by a firmware update, I may never see it since my cable co. (RCN Lehigh Valley) doesn't seem interested in pushing down updates.

you might have a signal power issue.

you might have a signal power issue.

Seems unlikely since it was recording during the times I noticed frames dropping. As soon as the recording on the other tuner finished, the picture was perfect. I've also checked signal levels and both tuners are good.

Seems unlikely since it was recording during the times I noticed frames dropping. As soon as the recording on the other tuner finished, the picture was perfect. I've also checked signal levels and both tuners are good.
Were you recording on tuner 1 and watching live TV on tuner 2? You could still have a signal power issue. When the recording was over did you swap tuners to see if the live picture on the channel that was recording was okay?

It was asked before but never answered. Because the 6412 is a two-tuner STB, can you use it for PIP and more importantly, HD PIP?

I see that you have one HDMI port so you would probably have to use a Component out (no DVI?)

It was asked before but never answered. Because the 6412 is a two-tuner STB, can you use it for PIP and more importantly, HD PIP?

I see that you have one HDMI port so you would probably have to use a Component out (no DVI?)

No.

The same Video signal is sent to all Outputs at the same time. The PIP buttons on the remote are for your TV/Monitor PIP (if you have that option).

No.

The same Video signal is sent to all Outputs at the same time. The PIP buttons on the remote are for your TV/Monitor PIP (if you have that option).

Does this hold true for the PIII boxes? They at least have chipset support for 2 HDTV PIP. Don't know if the bussing to the connectors and the software is there or planned.

Does this hold true for the PIII boxes? They at least have chipset support for 2 HDTV PIP. Don't know if the bussing to the connectors and the software is there or planned.
Concerning the capabilities of the Phase III box, I think it boils down to what Comcast wants to support/deal with. The box itself seems to be a very capable one for a multitude of functions.

How to program the remote for 30, 60, 90, 120 (and
more) Second Skip

Create a 30 second skip using the following
directions:

1) Press the "Cable" button at the top of the remote
to put it into
Cable Box control mode.
2) Press and hold the "Setup" button until the
"Cable" button blinks twice.


This may be a stupid question, but the remote that came with my 6412 doesn't have a setup button. I don't see a model number on the remote but it is a Motorola product. Along the top are four device buttons (audio, DVD, TV, and Cable). Where should the Setup button be located?

If it doesn't look like this one then I don't know what to tell you, I have no experience with anything else.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/remotesmall2.jpg

Thank you folks for the information. I now have quick skip on my cable HD DVR.

Mine looks exactly like the one on the Motorola site. I did some more checking and it's the DRC800 remote. Check out the picture on page 13 of the online manual. The manual is URMD2.pdf (Sorry, I'm a new poster so it's not letting me include URLs).

I just looked at that remote and I don't know anything about it, someone else here might though.

http://broadband.motorola.com/catalog/productdetail.asp?ProductID=392
Motorola - Template

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/DRC800.gif

I used to have one of those with the very first 6412 I got last year. You don't want it - there is no way to program the 30-second skip on it, plus it is not as ergonomic to use/hold as the silver remote, and also I think the IR emitter in it may be a bit less powerful because I remember having to aim it very directly at the 6412.

Call and try to get them to agree to swap it out for a silver one, or if that won't work then take it back to your local Comcast office and play dumb and tell them it's broken and you need a new remote.

My opinion is that even the silver remote is not so good. I used it for a while, it is not intuitive. Better to get a Harmony, which ever model you choose, it will be a much better layout. If you think you will be good at detailed programming, (I learned on the fly), then I recommend a Home Theater Master.

My opinion is that even the silver remote is not so good. I used it for a while, it is not intuitive. Better to get a Harmony, which ever model you choose, it will be a much better layout. If you think you will be good at detailed programming, (I learned on the fly), then I recommend a Home Theater Master.

I actually use the MX-500, but there's no way I'll be able to program a key on that one unless I have a remote that sends out the correct signal. I could then use learn to program a key on the MX-500. I'll ask my local cable provide to see if they can supply the newer remote.

A quick question. Could somebody with the silver Motorola remote post it's product number? I need to know what to ask my cable company for. Thanks!

There were some earlier posts discussing PIP, hoping to get different program streams out of different output ports. We know the 6412 by design puts out the same stream on every port.

However, what about the more standard question about whether the 6412 Phase 3 can compose a single output from two streams with one "pip'd" in a corner of the other. I believe the MS Ultimate TV competitor to Tivo did this. I also believe its been established that the Phase 2 didn't have the necessary hardware support.

Does the Phase 3 have the necessary hardware, and does the IGuide that runs on it support this?

I can't believe they didn't put a bigger hard drive in this unit. 15 hours for HD is nothing. With the size of hard drives today they could have easily put a in a bigger HD. What were they thinking?

Does cable use MPEG2 or MPEG4 to deliver its HD content? If its MPEG2 and they switch to MPEG4, could they get more content on the hard drive?

I can't believe they didn't put a bigger hard drive in this unit. 15 hours for HD is nothing. With the size of hard drives today they could have easily put a in a bigger HD. What were they thinking?

Does cable use MPEG2 or MPEG4 to deliver its HD content? If its MPEG2 and they switch to MPEG4, could they get more content on the hard drive?
It is actually claimed to be 12-20 hours, apparently depending on the birate. Once, someone was actually able to get 23 hours of HD on it.

Does anyone actually know what Comcast's plan is for increasing DVR disk storage?

They conceivably could do it with usb or firewire drives on any phase of 6412, or require a phase 3 and do SATA, or just provide units with larger internal drives. They could allow user supplied external drives, or force you to rent one from them.

Have they ever said which of these options they are going to actually do?

I just got a second DVR (a Phase III) and the manual that came with it was for a DCT6412 and a DCT6416, a 160 Gb version.

-b

My older 6412 was killing all my recordings in the middle (very annoying), so I got it replaced yesterday with one of the phase 3 boxes.

I have noticed two improvements.

1. Analog channels look better. This box is hooked up to a 27" analog CRT, but it didn't seem as sharp as it is does now (connected via S-video).

2. The fast foward function is much faster than before. Even at FF4, the old 6412 seemed to take forever to get through a 30-minute program. This new one got through 30-minutes in about 2 minutes. :)

I have another older 6412 hooked up to my HDTV, but I don't want to replace it yet since I only have a DVI-HDMI cable.

Just got my 6412 phase III today from RCN here outside Boston. It has firmware 12.13.

Any thoughts on how to enable 30-second fast forward with this remote? It's different than any of the Comcast remotes described here. They gave me a Contec Synergy V universal remote. Model RC-U62CDR. (Picture attached)

Also, anyone know how to tell if SATA is enabled on RCN's system without buying an external HD and trying it?

Any thoughts on how to enable 30-second fast forward with this remote? It's different than any of the Comcast remotes described here. They gave me a Contec Synergy V universal remote. Model RC-U62CDR. (Picture attached)
Looks an awful lot like an OFA/UEI remote. Try following the same procedure as described in this thread.

Looks an awful lot like an OFA/UEI remote. Try following the same procedure as described in this thread.

Except there's no "Setup" button.

D'oh!

Except there's no "Setup" button.

D'oh!
What does the mode button do?

It does look a lot like the Comcast remote..

This may be a stupid question, but the remote that came with my 6412 doesn't have a setup button. I don't see a model number on the remote but it is a Motorola product. Along the top are four device buttons (audio, DVD, TV, and Cable). Where should the Setup button be located?


If your's is dark charcoal it's most likely a DRC 800 and not programmable like mine :(

Check the manual attached:

What does the mode button do?

On the RCN-provided remote you press the mode button and then one of the "one-touch power" buttons, like "DVD" for example. This switches the meaning of the play button, for example, to mean "play the DVD" as opposed to "play the DVR recording." There are several other buttons, like the volume that might have an ambiguous meaning without knowing which mode you're in. Like should the TV volume go up, or the cable box volume, or the "Audio" device, a.k.a. the receiver. Mode disambiguates. Without pressing "Mode" first the buttons labeled "DVD," "Audio," et cetera act as power buttons.

The remote is programmable, and I have a manual, but I can't figure out how to set up a macro.

I actually use the MX-500, but there's no way I'll be able to program a key on that one unless I have a remote that sends out the correct signal. I could then use learn to program a key on the MX-500. I'll ask my local cable provide to see if they can supply the newer remote.
You are correct, but, if need be, you can buy a very inexpensive ($15 ?) OFA remote at Radio Shack or elsewhere, and program the Motorola STB code into it, and bingo you have the 30 Sec. Skip that can be learned into the HTM MX-500 or other model. BTW, the silver remote is a OFA produced for Comcast. Of course, Harmony has the Skip in a number of it's 6412 profiles, for those that have one of their remotes.

Even with it turned off the fan wont stop running. HELP!

Even with it turned off the fan wont stop running. HELP!

The only way to power off the STB, is to unplug it. The on/off button only turns the unit to Standby.

the only way the fan is off is when its unplugged, it cant be normal. i just programmed it and got shows already on it. i dont want to have to change it out.

Why would the box be sold from the Cable Company. Comcast only leases them to me


My local CC was offering this box for $299 with a 2 year commitment to Cox cable. I had to return my 2nd gen 6412 because the firewire output had the copy protection turned on in the latest firmware update. I was then unable to archive to D-VHS. Can anyone confirm that the firewire is working in this box?

My opinion is that even the silver remote is not so good. I used it for a while, it is not intuitive. Better to get a Harmony, which ever model you choose, it will be a much better layout. If you think you will be good at detailed programming, (I learned on the fly), then I recommend a Home Theater Master.

For those looking for a great remote I just got the Harmony 520 at Walmart and it is amazing!!! It controls everything you could possibly need. There is a great thread running in the accessory area discussing different remotes, but this one is fantastic.

I had a noisy fan, and took the box back and got a new one. The new one is almost completely silent (fan & drive). Don't settle for less.

I just read this whole thread and didn't see if anyone has ever tested the SATA port.

Has nobody actually tried hooking up an external SATA drive using the 6412's rear SATA port???

:confused:

I just read this whole thread and didn't see if anyone has ever tested the SATA port.

Has nobody actually tried hooking up an external SATA drive using the 6412's rear SATA port???

:confused:


The port is not currently enabled, nor does the current firmware 09.12, 09.15, 09.17, 09.19, or beta 09.21 have support for it.

In order to increase the recordable hard drive space available, i set up two 6412's on the two component inputs on my TV. I assigned each 6412 several program series to record. The set up went fine as I turned off one 6412 while scheduling programs on the other 6412 to compensate for the fact that both had the same remote access number and both responded to the same commands. The problem occurred when I deleted the program from one 6412. Because the same signal went to both 6412's, a program was deleted from both. When I turned off one 6412 and pushed menu on the other, the diagnostic menu would come up on the turned off 6412, change the settings, and that would have to be corrected. In other words, it was a constant problem and required daily monitoring. Finally, I went back to D* and Tivo to provide more backup and SD space, and retained one 6412 in order to record the superior HD picture. Comcast has a good product, but need to activate the SATA outlet to provide sufficient hard drive space.

I got a 2nd one in the same room here recently to add more space, and it works fine if you place a piece of cardboard in front of the one you aren't controlling :)

But I agree this is not as elegant as the code-settable UHF remotes I had with Dish Network.

I will be changing my older 6412 for a Phase 3 unit. I have an ongoing issue with my cable company regarding the poor analog picture quality and the Phase 3 seems to address that.

In preparation, can anyone tell me what type of HDMI to DVI cable I will need?
More specificially, is the HDMI connector on the 6412 a female or male?

LD500,

All connections on source devices are male and the cable is female when HDMI is concerned. It is the oppposite when DVI is used.

I can get you the required cables, contact me for details.

Are the phase III's more sensitive to low signal conditions?

I had a tech over today who finally got my phase III working. This is the 3rd 6412 I have, the other two have been fine. The P3 didn't want to receive "hits" from Comcast to update it, and wouldn't let me watch most of the digital channels.

I swapped it out for a 2nd P3, but that didn't help - same problem. I swapped it to use the cable outlet my original 6412 is on, and that didn't either (similar signal levels on both outlets).

The tech today boosted the signal and the P3 finally took a hit.

When you turn this box off and access the menu is there a "passthrough" option or just the same 480, 720, 1080 options?

When you turn this box off and access the menu is there a "passthrough" option or just the same 480, 720, 1080 options?

What do you mean by a passthrough?

Comcast sends all HD in 1080i format from the headend to the STB as stated on there website and commercials. (Networks are sent in native xxx or xxxx format)

Yes, but you have to select what format the 6412 will output, either 480i/p, 720p or 1080i. If it had a "native" or "passthru" mode it would allow the box to change it's output to whatever it's receiving.

Are you saying that Comcrap is sending ESPN-HD to the box in 1080i mode, even though it is natively 720P??? I don't think that's right because I have the Sony HD DVR and when it receives ABC-HD and ESPN-HD it says it's coming in at 720P.

What I mean by "passthrough" is unscaled. I have Brighthouse cable and I'm not sure how they send their HD. I had assumed they sent it how ever it came from the network. I'd like the cable box to pass the signal through to the output without scaling at all.

Yes, but you have to select what format the 6412 will output, either 480i/p, 720p or 1080i. If it had a "native" or "passthru" mode it would allow the box to change it's output to whatever it's receiving.

Are you saying that Comcrap is sending ESPN-HD to the box in 1080i mode, even though it is natively 720P???

Dave,

We all have asked this question, but there are several answers out there. The info I have is from some of my former Comcrap Employees. But thats what they tell me.

Does anyone have access to a HDTV signal tester that can test the HDTV Ch on a comcast feed line?

What I mean by "passthrough" is unscaled. I have Brighthouse cable and I'm not sure how they send their HD. I had assumed they sent it how ever it came from the network. I'd like the cable box to pass the signal through to the output without scaling at all.

The STB must be set to whatever your TV/Monitor/projector is set to.

The 64xx STB does not pass through any native signal, it must be selected in the setup menu.

That's exactly what he's asking for though, a native passthru mode so it can be used with external scalers and monitors that can handle all resolutions and can also scale better than the Motorola units can.

I am confirming that the Comcast signal is native in nature coming into the Motorola. It is the Motorola boxes that change the resolution if need be. Like I said, I have the new Sony HD DVR that decodes cable and OTA SD and HD signals and when I tune to ABC, FOX and ESPN HD channels it comes out as 720P and also says that it is being input at 720P. WHen I go to the NBC, CBS, etc. channels it is at 1080i. This is all when I set the Sony into it's native mode.

the only way the fan is off is when its unplugged, it cant be normal. i just programmed it and got shows already on it. i dont want to have to change it out.
Yes, it is correct; fan stays on, unless unplugged.

That's exactly what he's asking for though, a native passthru mode so it can be used with external scalers and monitors that can handle all resolutions and can also scale better than the Motorola units can.

I am confirming that the Comcast signal is native in nature coming into the Motorola. It is the Motorola boxes that change the resolution if need be. Like I said, I have the new Sony HD DVR that decodes cable and OTA SD and HD signals and when I tune to ABC, FOX and ESPN HD channels it comes out as 720P and also says that it is being input at 720P. WHen I go to the NBC, CBS, etc. channels it is at 1080i. This is all when I set the Sony into it's native mode.

the firewire passes through native... I know that doesnt help the scaler issue though

The port is not currently enabled, nor does the current firmware 09.12, 09.15, 09.17, 09.19, or beta 09.21 have support for it.

I wonder what would happen with firmware 12.13. Do RCN boxes have different firmware for the Phase III compared to other providers?

the firewire passes through native... I know that doesnt help the scaler issue though

That's true. I have done that in the past also by passing the firewire stream out to a DVHS unit, then out it's component output to the display so it would be in native mode. The only thing that sucks w/ that is you lose the menus and OSD.

Hey flyersfan, noticed your handle here at AVS...VERY COOL:D!!! I am foaming at the mouth waiting for Hockey to return, especially the Flyers. Time to bring the cup back home to Philly and make Bobby Clarke proud:)!!!

LD500,

All connections on source devices are male and the cable is female when HDMI is concerned. It is the oppposite when DVI is used.

I can get you the required cables, contact me for details.


First of all, thanks Dave for answering.

Strange, all the computer stores locally only seem to sell Male HDMI to Male DVI cables. When I look at the photos at the start of this thread it looks like a female connector to me, but I'm not that familiar with HDMI.

Can anyone else confirm that the Motorola 6412 indeed has a female HDMI port on the back of the unit? And therefore I would need a Male HDMI to Female DVI cable to hookup my TV.

Hoping to buy the cable this weekend and swap to a Phase 3 ASAP.

Thank You

LD500,

That is a standard HDMI port on the Ph III 6412 according to the pix. Just get whatever they are selling locally, it will be alright. That is the standard HDMI hookup config. Look at the cable's HDMI end, if it has a thin narrow opening in the center, that's the one you want. For the DVI end, it should have the pins protruding out, not small holes to accept the pins. That's the male end of the cable for DVI.

Go to www.extron.com and it'll explain just about every cable and connector out there.

This is what you need:

http://store1.yimg.com/I/bettercablesdotcom_1860_4948278

When I got my phase III I needed a HDMI cable. The best price I found (didn't search too long) was at svideo dot com - under $10 for a 6 foot one. Works perfect!

This is where I got my cable, under $10 for a 15 footer, works like a champ.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&style=

Does anyone know if the HDMI port on the phase 3 box is version 1.1 or version 1.0?

Thanks

Steve

When I got my phase III I needed a HDMI cable. The best price I found (didn't search too long) was at svideo dot com - under $10 for a 6 foot one. Works perfect!

Good to hear as I ordered a 6 ft one yesterday for $7.30 shipped.

I have a question on this, is the HDMI output clearly nicer than the Component, or can you tell that much of a difference?

Also, any word if any Comcast dealers are getting this?

No difference, none, 0. No matter the source or the display, their is no difference, ever. Don't let anyone fool you. It simply is a way for the CE manufacturers to charge more and for Monster Cable to make their garbage cables that cost them $2.00 to make that they sell for $200.00. HDMI and DVI are also a way for the MPAA to control what we watch and how we watch it. It is the biggest consumer scam in history and I can't wait for Prime Time Live and 20/20 to show the world how the CE manufacturers/retailers have pulled off the the largest rip-off of the American Consumer since the Pet Rock.

Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me!

Have you actually done any testing to back up your claims??? Keeping the signal in digital form is clearly the better option for the best image possible.

The broadcasters have been doing it for many years with SDI and AES/EBU digital audio and video, to which I have seen and verified to be superior with professional broadcast test gear from the likes of Tektronix, Snell & Wilcox, Rhode and Schwartz, Sencore, Barco, Sony, JVC Pro, etc., etc., etc.

What proof do you have to support your theories???

A weak point with the 6412 has been the problem of running two boxes in the same room, because both boxes respond to the same IR codes. Tivo's let you configure them to use an alternate set.

Has anything changed on the Phase 3 to allow alternate codes?

No, I have a P3 and a P2, and use a piece of cardboard to block the one I'm not using.

My old dish network satellite receivers also had the ability to set remote codes. It's a pretty basic thing they really should add to the 6412.

The sat receivers also had UHF remotes so you didn't even have to aim them at the box - that was rather nice, but I guess adds a bit of cost the cable cos don't want.

LD500,

All connections on source devices are male and the cable is female when HDMI is concerned. It is the oppposite when DVI is used.

I can get you the required cables, contact me for details.


Nonsense. You are confused. The Moto 6412 with the HDMI output is female...( It had a hole into which you stick a cable plug !!!...That's female, isn't it?). I use a Male to Male HDMI cable to connect it to my TV, a Sony KDF 55XS955, which also happens to be female.

Yes, but look at the center of the connector on the 6412. It has a small connection board sticking out of the middle of it. That to me is male. Think of a BNC connector. The male plug also has "air" around the actual connecting pin, but we don't think of that as female. It should be the actual part that transfers the signal that dictates which is male and which is female. The cable end of the HDMI is open in the middle, thereby making it female to me.

As I said though, I never really checked into the actual nomenclature of which is which with HDMI. I guess I'll go double check.

Yep, I was corn-fused:eek: Never mind...

I just double checked and what BBH said is correct. That goes against all that I have learned in broadcasting and signal transfer, but I guess they had their reasons.

Just when you think you have it all figured out...:rolleyes:!!!

I just got the Phase III box recently and I'm having problems with copy protection. I'm getting this error message from my JVC 40000 D-VHS VCR using the firewire port connection from the Phase III 6412:

"Copy Restricted Prog Output 480I Video (302)"

I never had this problem with the 6412 Phase I box. I get this message on all the HDTV Channels outputed through the firewire port as seen through the JVC 40000 D-VHS VCR. I posted this in the local channel forum too, but I wanted to know if anyone else is having the problem outside of my area with the Phase III box.

Since I've had my P3 working now for a week, I've had time to compare it to the P2 I still have.

There is a noticeable difference in the look of the analog channels. I think it was reported in this thread previously to look "better" on the P3, but I have to disagree. My P3 produces a blurrier, more smeared out looking analog picture when compared against my P2 on the same channel. It looks like it may be applying some filter or something before digitizing the image - there is less analog noise, almost none, but also there is less detail.

Since I've had my P3 working now for a week, I've had time to compare it to the P2 I still have.

There is a noticeable difference in the look of the analog channels. I think it was reported in this thread previously to look "better" on the P3, but I have to disagree. My P3 produces a blurrier, more smeared out looking analog picture when compared against my P2 on the same channel. It looks like it may be applying some filter or something before digitizing the image - there is less analog noise, almost none, but also there is less detail.

Once your area goes full Digital Simulcast on all of it's Analog Tier (ch 2 -- 101) the Box will not have to reconvert the signal! DS PQ on the 6412p3 looks very good.