If you you have a smaller room and a "musical sub", I think you would be fine with the 20's. Maybe put the extra money toward better amplification? On the other hand, I have a small room and use 60's and just use my sub for the lower octaves where my 60's can't reach. So I guess my point is it kinda depends on your room-size and your sub AND most importantly what sounds good to you in your room. I've never really listened to the 40's so I can't comment on that.

Also I agree with Oztech, go with a Studio center, as matching the front three is always recommended.

Here is a quote from their press release re: the changes in V.4

"This fourth-generation of speakers features two significant design upgrades: G-PAL™ gold-anodized pure-aluminum tweeter domes (introduced in the company’s critically acclaimed Signature Series) and S-PAL™ satin-anodized pure-aluminum woofer cones for the mid-range driver"

Notice the change for the tweeter is only in the domes, not the whole tweeter structure. The motor, magnets and chasis remain the same.
My room is 20 X 25; fairly large. Based on that, do you think I need to go with the Studio 60s, or can I go with the 20s or 40s and make it up with the sub?

In regard to that quoted information from Paradigm, that seems to contradict their new brochure, which, in describing the High Frequency Driver", says "S-PAL satin anodized pure aluminum dome ...". Nothing about a "G-PAL" dome. This is from their v.4 brochure. Is that a misprint or am I missing something?

Ken

in that room 100's would be happy and so would you.

Yeah, that is a pretty big room.

in that room 100's would be happy and so would you.
The 100s and I would be happy, but my wife wouldn't, which would then make ME unhappy, so that won't work! I think the best I'm going to get away with is the 60s.

How about the difference between the CC-470 and cc-570. It's going to be hard enough for me to fit the 470; it would be VERY difficult to fit the 570. If the difference in quality is noticeable I might be able to do it, but is there a noticeable difference to justify going to the larger speaker?

Ken

i always tried to take wife with me when looking for equipment and
the size and sticker shock was overcomed because she would also
see (looks very important to them) and hear (very important to us)
the difference because we learned buyers remorse along time ago
always try to get what sounds the best to fit budget and room.

i would not mix the lines there is a noticeable difference.
I do have a mix and to me its not a big deal , I have 40's V.3 up front with a CC V.2 and Cinema90 V.3 in the rear .I think the cinemas are fine for surround its just FXs -IF you do SACD or DVDA music then I would say it would be better to have matching fronts and rears . I am sure if I had 20 V.3 in the rears movies would sound killer but for me I would rather have better 2 channel and that is why I got 40's with my budget I spent more up front . Plus the wife likes the look of the 90's wall mounted over a larger box type speaker ( I may try to sell her on a pair of atoms one day in the rear)

I do have a mix and to me its not a big deal , I have 40's V.3 up front with a CC V.2 and Cinema90 V.3 in the rear .I think the cinemas are fine for surround its just FXs -IF you do SACD or DVDA music then I would say it would be better to have matching fronts and rears . I am sure if I had 20 V.3 in the rears movies would sound killer but for me I would rather have better 2 channel and that is why I got 40's with my budget I spent more up front . Plus the wife likes the look of the 90's wall mounted over a larger box type speaker ( I may try to sell her on a pair of atoms one day in the rear)
I agree with ANT, I use cinema 90's wall mounted along with my 100's v.3 and I think it produces excellent results, at least in my room setup.... :)

There's always alot more flexibility when it comes to the rears/surrounds. However, you should try to get a good timbre match between the fronts and center channel. I've been using the CC470 with the Studio 60 v.3's and can't find anything to complain about. Regarding all the WAF issues raised in the last few posts, we just found the '570 to be too damn big to fit in most cabinets or entertainment centers. Now, if you're talking about matching a center channel with the 100's, that's a different story. Go with the '570 for that if you have the room.

If I recall correctly, $1300 for the Seismic 10 and $1700 for the Seismic 12.
$2200 for the Servo15. I have been very impressed by all three.



Not that I wouldn't concur re: the 20's, but "HT Mag" hardly every gives something a bad review. Kinda like S&V. I think I've read three reviews where they didn't recommend a product.
I was just reading the review and found this thread after a search. I'm interested in listening to the V4s now for a 2 channel setup after reading how good they sound (even without a sub). Article says if you choose to go with a sub, "Pardigm recommends the Seismic 10 or Servo-15"

I agree HT mag doesn't give many products a bad review. But the reviewer was pretty impressed by the V4s. A 98 rating on performance.

Guys... I'm on the fence between the Studio 60's and the Studio 100's...

The 60's are more in my desired price range...

I might be purchasing a Servo 15 from my coworker for a great price...

If I picked up that sub, is it really necessary to spend the extra money on the 100's? Essentially the biggest difference between teh 60's and the 100's would be the base output, right?

the best way to describe the dif would be to take your music to the dealer
and let you a/b the dif for yourself the 100's i found had more midbass
your results and type of music may vary.

If you can compare the 60's plus sub (any sub) side by side with the 100s it would probably be worth your trouble. I picked the 60s because of space and budget. But when I auditioned them, the 60's sounded like $1500 speakers and the 100s sounded like they could compete with just about anything. It wasn't just the bass output that was different. I would guess it has to do with midrange dispersion. Anyway, I like my 60s, but I would pick the 100s today if I wasn't using them in the living room.

I picked the 60s because of space and budget. But when I auditioned them, the 60's sounded like $1500 speakers and the 100s sounded like they could compete with just about anything.
A bigger, more expensive speaker will usually sound better, but I'd take issue with your claim that the 60's merely sound like $1,500 speakers while the 100's were in a much higher league. In fact, in a review a year or so ago, Kal Rubinson of Stereophile favorably compared the 60's to speakers costing almost 10 times that.

In fact, in a review a year or so ago, Kal Rubinson of Stereophile favorably compared the 60's to speakers costing almost 10 times that.

Have you ever read a speaker review where that's not said??? :D :D :D

I do love my 60s, my understanding was that neither are really "full range", that the 100s just work better for larger rooms (mines 14 x 23 x 8).

Have you ever read a speaker review where that's not said??? :D :D :D

I do love my 60s, my understanding was that neither are really "full range", that the 100s just work better for larger rooms (mines 14 x 23 x 8).


Good one there JK on the speaker review Magazine... :) Tru Dat Tru Dat

And as far as the 100's for a big room, this is very much the case...

They may require alot more power, with the extra drivers, but will also output that much more pressure for a large room for that extra power input.

That is why I based my decision on getting 100's for my 8200cu.ft + room, and they perform righteously IMO !!

I have a 17' x 15' room, would you guys recommend the studio 100s or the 60s?

I have a 17' x 15' room, would you guys recommend the studio 100s or the 60s?
I have a 20 X 25 room and I just today decided to go with the 60s. I had worked my way up from looking at the Monitor 9s and 11s, to the Studio 20s, then the 40s, and now the 60s. Since I did not have the luxury of bringing a pair home to try out, I had to go by what I heard in the stores. Having now listened to every possible speaker I could find within 50 miles of my house, I felt that the Studio 60 was the one to go with. Since I don't play music that loud I don't feel I'm going to miss the extra output of the 100, and don't want to worry about the increased power requirements necessary to get the best out of the 100s. I think I found my point of diminishing returns. I'm sure the 100s would give me more bass, but based on what I heard, the 60s should give me all the bass I need. I think you need to decide how important that extra bass is to you, or whether the additional midrange quality (if there is any) would even be noticeable to you. I don't think my ear is good enough to tell the difference at this level of quality. I think the 60s will give me all I need.

Good luck.

Ken

I agree with ANT,:)

Dont hear that to often ;)
I also set my 40's and CC to LARGE
Most dont agree with me there either BUT ist what sounds best to me :D

Dont hear that to often ;)
I also set my 40's and CC to LARGE
Most dont agree with me there either BUT ist what sounds best to me :D
We must have the same ears! I also have my 100's and cc-450 set to large and we are the only ones who think this.......ha ha ha ;)

We must have the same ears! I also have my 100's and cc-450 set to large and we are the only ones who think this.......ha ha ha ;)

There is a small contingent of us who prefer the large over the small setting. Bottom line is what sounds best to you.

:D Amen Brotha :D

In fact, in a review a year or so ago, Kal Rubinson of Stereophile favorably compared the 60's to speakers costing almost 10 times that.True but I didn't prefer the 60s in that comparison. :D

How about the difference between the CC-470 and cc-570. It's going to be hard enough for me to fit the 470; it would be VERY difficult to fit the 570. If the difference in quality is noticeable I might be able to do it, but is there a noticeable difference to justify going to the larger speaker?

Ken, if you haven't decided on a center already, I would try to go with the 570. I had the 470 and wasn't that happy. I borrowed the 570 from my dealer and immediately notice a difference in clarity. If you can make it fit, and can afford it. I would recommend going for it.

Congratulations on the 60's. I just switched to version 4 (from 3) and got 'em up and running last nite. Very cool.
Now I can't wait for Kal to do a review of V.4 where he compares them to speakers 30x's their price!!!! :D ;)

Now I can't wait for Kal to do a review of V.4 where he compares them to speakers 30x's their price!!!! :D ;)I don't have any speakers 30x the price of the V4s.

I don't have any speakers 30x the price of the V4s.

So with all your posting in the Paradigm realm Kal, might I be so bold as to ask what does your system consist of? Im sure you have posted it somewhere, but I am unaware..

I know that I and many here on this site value your opinion, which makes me curious what your ears are tuned too... :o ;)

Warp

all i have left is the sub... cc470 + 100s +20s

Has anyone paired the new CC690 (v4) with the Studio 20's (v3)? I listen 90% TV and movies and, from what I've learned lately, the center is a key component. Most of my TV watching is HD. I currently have the CC470 (v3) and am wondering if the 690 would provide a noticeable improvement in clarity.

Surrounds are ADP 470s and sub is Servo 15.

True but I didn't prefer the 60s in that comparison. :D
Well, I guess I didn't mean that you "favored" the Paradigm Studio 60's over speakers costing 10X as much, but just holding them up for comparison to such speakers, as you did, certainly suggests that the 60's at least merit comparison, doesn't it?
Hey, if someone offered to take my Paradigm's in trade for a pair of $16K speakers, I'd sure take the deal. ;)

So with all your posting in the Paradigm realm Kal, might I be so bold as to ask what does your system consist of? Im sure you have posted it somewhere, but I am unaware..

I know that I and many here on this site value your opinion, which makes me curious what your ears are tuned too... :o ;)

WarpIt is posted in the Associated Equipment box that accompanies each and every review.

Well, I guess I didn't mean that you "favored" the Paradigm Studio 60's over speakers costing 10X as much, but just holding them up for comparison to such speakers, as you did, certainly suggests that the 60's at least merit comparison, doesn't it?Certainly. One needs to constantly recalibrate the price/value graph.

Hey, if someone offered to take my Paradigm's in trade for a pair of $16K speakers, I'd sure take the deal. ;)Me, too, but that's not going to happen, is it?

Ken, if you haven't decided on a center already, I would try to go with the 570. I had the 470 and wasn't that happy. I borrowed the 570 from my dealer and immediately notice a difference in clarity. If you can make it fit, and can afford it. I would recommend going for it.

Congratulations on the 60's. I just switched to version 4 (from 3) and got 'em up and running last nite. Very cool.
Now I can't wait for Kal to do a review of V.4 where he compares them to speakers 30x's their price!!!! :D ;)
Although you would never know it from Paradigm's web site or outdated brochures, there is no 470 or 570 anymore. From what I have been told, it is now a 590 and 690. Unless I'm missing something, I can't find any paradigm literature that describes them, but I did see a 590 at a dealer and I decided to take my chances and I went with that one rather than going with the 290 from the Monitor series, which is the one I was originally going to buy. It's a lot more money, but I decided I should match the center with the fronts and stay within the Studio series for the center. From what I have been told, the 690 would be way too big. Hopefully I made the right choice.

Ken

I have the 80's with a 470cc, adp's and the 2200 sub. I listen to about 5% music and the rest dvd and tv. I am sick of the jumbo size though and can get the 20's for a great deal locally. My question is should I, will they be better or the same? Thanks...

Although you would never know it from Paradigm's web site or outdated brochures, there is no 470 or 570 anymore. From what I have been told, it is now a 590 and 690. Unless I'm missing something, I can't find any paradigm literature that describes them, but I did see a 590 at a dealer and I decided to take my chances and I went with that one rather than going with the 290 from the Monitor series, which is the one I was originally going to buy. It's a lot more money, but I decided I should match the center with the fronts and stay within the Studio series for the center. From what I have been told, the 690 would be way too big. Hopefully I made the right choice.

Ken
i think you will appreciate it in the long run i chose the 570 over the 470
so if the 590 is improved and i am sure it is over the 570 enjoy.

Ken I think you made a great choice. I did mean to go with the 590. I just was forgetting that they DID stop making the 470-570.
Congrats on your new stuff!!!!

Looking for some opinions on the new Monitor series surrounds, specifically the ADP 370 v4 vs. the ADP 390 v5. I'm still doing a little back and forth, but I'm finding the 370's provide a fuller more immersive surround experience in my setup than the 390s.

I'm curious to hear the opinions of others who have gone from the 370's to the 390 surrounds. I've got no qualms with the rest of the new Monitor series, but the jury is still out on the surrounds.

Has anyone had to replace one of their grills on a V.3 Studio 60. I'm just wondering how much something like this will cost me? I dropped it on the floor and the top corner edge split. :mad: Rats!!!

Dom

I was considering a pair of floor model 60s a few months ago with a run in the nylon on the grill. My dealer said $30-40 for new grills.

After using 20's for surrounds I'm finally gonna try ADP's (Studios).
Has anybody else switched and regretted it?
Because of the room, one will have to go in a built-in bookshelf and the other will be on top of a bookshelf and only about 3" from the ceiling. My couch is against the back wall so that is out as well. I'm worried they might not work the best in those placement scenarios. The 20's have been ok, but not as open and enveloping as I would like.
Any thoughts.

I just recently switched to ADPs and I absolutely love it and would not want to go back to direct surrounds. My couch is against the back wall as well. I have mine sitting on speaker stands on the rear sides at ear level. I don't listen to DVD-A or SACD, so I can't tell you if there are drawbacks to ADPs while listening to those formats. I'm not a fan of setting surrounds above ear level nor having them shoot at only the walls and not into my ears. The ADPs give me direct sound and some ambient distraction to make it more omidirectional. Alot of people think that dipole/bipole speakers are just a marketing scam. That may be true if you set them up like they are typicaly setup (high on the side walls). If you do decide you want to try them, place one side firing at your ear with the other side firing away. I think it sounds amazing.

Ken I think you made a great choice. I did mean to go with the 590. I just was forgetting that they DID stop making the 470-570.
Congrats on your new stuff!!!!
Thanks. I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions. I'm really looking forward to the new equipment. It's definitely going to be a step up from my 30-year old JBLs!

Ken

I just recently switched to ADPs and I absolutely love it and would not want to go back to direct surrounds. My couch is against the back wall as well. I have mine sitting on speaker stands on the rear sides at ear level. I don't listen to DVD-A or SACD, so I can't tell you if there are drawbacks to ADPs while listening to those formats. I'm not a fan of setting surrounds above ear level nor having them shoot at only the walls and not into my ears. The ADPs give me direct sound and some ambient distraction to make it more omidirectional. Alot of people think that dipole/bipole speakers are just a marketing scam. That may be true if you set them up like they are typicaly setup (high on the side walls). If you do decide you want to try them, place one side firing at your ear with the other side firing away. I think it sounds amazing.

One side firing towards you? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the dipole? Just curious, I own them myself and have them setup in the typical fashion.

I just recently switched to ADPs and I absolutely love it and would not want to go back to direct surrounds. My couch is against the back wall as well. I have mine sitting on speaker stands on the rear sides at ear level. I don't listen to DVD-A or SACD, so I can't tell you if there are drawbacks to ADPs while listening to those formats. I'm not a fan of setting surrounds above ear level nor having them shoot at only the walls and not into my ears. The ADPs give me direct sound and some ambient distraction to make it more omidirectional. Alot of people think that dipole/bipole speakers are just a marketing scam. That may be true if you set them up like they are typicaly setup (high on the side walls). If you do decide you want to try them, place one side firing at your ear with the other side firing away. I think it sounds amazing.

Did you try moving your couch up a bit -- or the speaker stands back a bit-- so you are sitting in the null (like is intended with dipoles). I wonder if you would like that sound better?

Try that -- and then report back.

Hi everybody, new to the forum. Would like to give you my opinion of the Monitor 7 v4, the Studio 20 v3, Studio 60 v3 and the Studio 40 v4.

I stopped by a local Long Beach CA Paradigm dealer in January and auditioned the Monitor 7 v4, the Studio 20 v3 and the Studio 60 v3. The dealer never told me that the Monitor and Studio line had been upgraded.

I initially liked the Studio 20 v3 for its clear midrange and high. But the Monitor 7 v4 seemed more balanced in its presentation of the midrange, high and bass. The Studio 60 v3 sounded the best but I did not want to spend $1600 for the pair.

I purchased the Monitor 7 v4 for $600. After two weeks I decided these were not what I was looking for (now stored in my closet, an expensive lesson). Although they sounded fine for classical music I constantly craved more from the midrange and high's when playing jazz, especially when vocals were concerned. It always sounded like the singer was behind the musicians playing.

During this time I discovered the Monitor and Studio lines were upgraded to Monitor v5 and Studio v4 (shame on Paradigm for not helping the potential customer make an informed decision by displaying their most recent product lines). I also received at this time a healthy tax refund was owed to me by the IRS.

Purchased the Studio 40 v4 from Hartgate out of Palm Springs for $1300. I chose these because I had read other reviews that they had a little stronger presence on the midrange and high's than the Studio 60's.

I couldnt be happier with my purchase. The sound is open, good bass (suplimented the bass with a Klipsch Reference Subwoofer).

I am currently looking for a replacement to my Harmon Kardon AVR20 receiver. Phasing out the 5.1 system and going with 2.1. Current possibilities are the Magnum Dynalab MD-208 or the Simaudio I-5.3 intregated amp. Interested in anyone's opinion who have matched these units with the Studio speakers or feel they found a good match with another amp.

There is a small contingent of us who prefer the large over the small setting. Bottom line is what sounds best to you.
Thats right and I thought you were one of those small guys! :D

I chose these because I had read other reviews that they had a little stronger presence on the midrange and high's than the Studio 60's.


Can you contest to this? Did you A/B the 40's and 60's? These are the two that I am currently looking at. I'm definitely shooting for clarity in the mid and high as I'll be supplementing with 2 12" woofers.

I did not A/B the 40's and 60's. The dealer did not have the 40's.

I'm not sure if you purchased the Studio 60's you will need the subwoofers. When I auditioned the Studio 60 v3 I thought they had enough bass for most people's taste. I suspected the larger cabinet gave the Studio 60's a stronger bass presence. I did compare the Studio 60's and 20's which obviously is not a fair comparison. You definitely need to hear both the 40 and 60 side by side, if possible.

I'm a novice at best in this whole hi-fi matter but I'll give you my insight for my purchase of the 40's, for what its worth. Bear in mind that I am now focussed on 80% audio / 20% video these days, after having a 5.1 set-up for the past 10 years.

I checked the specs of both models before making the purchase. If I understood this correctly the Studio 40's are 62Hz-22kHz and the Studio 60's are 46Hz-22kHz for the frequency response on-axis. I'm a firm believer of using a subwoofer and felt the 40's were a better match.

I feel the Studio 40 v4 has benefited from the Klipsch subwoofer but I dont have the subwoofer's volume turned up very high (more interested in audio than video). They blend well together once I adjusted the subwoofer's low pass crossover.

Last, 40's work well with my living room approx. size of 16'x20'.

the sound difference in the models must be in cabinet size and crossovers
because all the studios share the same drivers.

I know everybody hears things differently and that is prefectly fine, but I have never heard anyone say this...
I initially liked the Studio 20 v3 for its clear midrange and high. But the Monitor 7 v4 seemed more balanced in its presentation of the midrange, high and bass.

Please know that I am not saying your are wrong or anything else.

As far as the diferences between the 60's and 40's, since the 60's do have more bass output, could that be why a different perception in mid-range clarity? Which then imho, would bring placement into consideration.

I don't know, just wondering...

I auditioned the Monitor 7's with the Studio 20's and 60's for about 1 hour on my first visit and on the second visit I auditioned just the Monitor 7' and Studio 20's for about 30 minutes.

The Monitor 7's and Studio 60's needed no correction in bass/treble. But when the Studio 20's were connected they sounded thin. I requested the bass control be increased and they sounded better.

My current set-up with the Studio 40's and Klipsch subwoofer sound great with no modification to the bass/treble controls of my receiver. The only correction I needed to do was with the subwoofer.

I am currenty in the market to replace the receiver. I would rather find an unit which includes the capability to modify the bass/treble. Currently my choices do not include bass/treble controls. Therefore, I need to find a receiver or intregated amp that matches the speaker/subwoofer set-up well.

You are probably correct that "since the 60's do have more bass output, could that be why a different perception in mid-range clarity". Bottom line is that it all comes down to the person's preferences in the sound the speakers produce. I urge Gouie to find a dealer with both models to audition at the business premises or allowing him to bring the speakers home with him to audition with his current setup.

Did you try moving your couch up a bit -- or the speaker stands back a bit-- so you are sitting in the null (like is intended with dipoles). I wonder if you would like that sound better?

Try that -- and then report back.

I would have tried it that way if I had the space. I can't move my couch up any, because I'm already closer than I want to be to my stuff. Wall mounting is also not an option due to my left wall is taken up with a main door and then deck door. I actually saw the ear level on speaker stand configuration at Best Buy of all places. Little did I know at the time that this was not the typical arrangment for dipoles until I bought mine and looked at the manual that told me the typical way.

I know the trick is for your ears to be in the null so that your ears can't locate them. However, they work in a similar way down at ear level with one side shooting directly at you. Much like def techs with their bipole designs, their speakers shoot at the back wall away from as well as the front. The ambient sound distracts your ears alittle from the direct sound making it harder to locate.

I don't listen to 6 channel music, so I was already ok with the design of a dipole. I was thinking that people who do listen to 6 channel music could try this configuration to get the direct sound that is required for DVD-A and SACD. I would have to believe that since Dolby Digital format is just as discrete as DVD-A or SACD that dipoles wouldn't work well for only one. After all, movie soundtracks have all the ambient effects built into the rear channel already just like DVD-A, so why is it ok to add the ambience of your room to movies, but not music.

I'm with you on the dipoles, I think they're fantastic. I have no problems now with the way they're set up. They sound exactly like I want them to. In my last post I was just explaining how some people still view dipoles as a market scam to spend more money. I don't think they are. Crappy dipoles that are complelely out of phase from 20kHz to 20Hz I would have a serious problem with, but the ADPs aren't like that. They have the best of both worlds IMO. I just think there are some audiophiles that could be happier with dipoles than with direct sound only, not unless they already have three speakers on each side.

Hey all. Looking for a list or a link to a list of MSRPs for the current Signature series. I was surprised to discover how scarce this specific information is. Thanks in advance.
Here you go.

Models are available in a variety of high-polished Signature wood veneers or Piano Black, and on-wall models are available in Silver or Black.

The Signature v.2 lineup:
New Model! S1 – Two-driver 2-way bookshelf: 6-inch mid/bass, 1” P-Be; $1600/pr
S2 – Two driver 2-way bookshelf: 7-inch mid/bass, 1-inch P-Be; $2400/pr
S4 – Three driver 2.5-way bookshelf: 7-inch bass, 7-inch mid/bass, 1” P-Be; $3200/pr
New Model! S6 – Four-driver 3-way floorstanding: 2 x 7-inch bass, 7-inch mid/bass, 1” P-Be; $4500/pr
S8 – Six-driver 3-way floorstanding: 4 x 7-inch bass, 7-inch midrange, 1-inch P-Be; $6500/pr
New Model! C1 – Four-driver 3-way center: 2 x 5.5-inch, 5-inch mid/bass, 1-inch P-Be; $900/ea
C3 – Four-driver 3-way center: 2 x 7-inch bass, 5-inch mid/bass, 1-inch P-Be; $1800/ea
C5 – Six-driver 3.5-way center: 2 x 7-inch bass, 5-inch mid/bass, 1-inch P-Be; $3000/ea
New Model! W5 – Six driver 3.5-way on-wall: 2 x 7-inch bass, 2 x 7-inch mid/bass, 4.5-inch mid, 1-inch P-Be; $2800/ea
New Model! W5 C – Six-driver 3.5-way on-wall center: 2 x 7-inch bass, 2 x 7-inch mid/bass, 4.5-inch mid, 1-inch P-Be; $2800/ea
New Model! ADP1 – Five-driver 3-way surround: 7-inch bass, 2 x 3.5-inch mid, 2 x 1-inch P-Be; $900/ea
ADP3 – Five driver 3-way surround: 8’ bass, 2 x 4.5-inch mid, 2 x 1-inch P-Be; $1700/ea
(FMV prices are in U.S. dollars. Birdseye Maple and Piano Black finishes slightly higher.)

I'm with you on the dipoles, I think they're fantastic. I have no problems now with the way they're set up. They sound exactly like I want them to. In my last post I was just explaining how some people still view dipoles as a market scam to spend more money. I don't think they are. Crappy dipoles that are complelely out of phase from 20kHz to 20Hz I would have a serious problem with, but the ADPs aren't like that. They have the best of both worlds IMO. I just think there are some audiophiles that could be happier with dipoles than with direct sound only, not unless they already have three speakers on each side.
I was close to getting diploes, but I do listen to a lot of 6 channel music and have found that full range is better. Plus I had the chance to get Monitor 11v5's for CDN$835 (steal) brand new and move my Monitor 11v4's to the rear speakers, so it was a chance I couldn't refuse.

I will likely either add Monitor 9v5's or dipoles as my 6th and 7th channels once I have a designated room for HT in a few years. Right now I don't have room for rear surround speakers as you can see from the following pics.

http://thumb19.webshots.net/t/59/159/0/26/48/2639026480034186899ExKeqT_th.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2639026480034186899ExKeqT)

http://thumb19.webshots.net/t/59/759/5/19/95/2440519950034186899FVhcLE_th.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2440519950034186899FVhcLE)

http://thumb19.webshots.net/t/58/158/8/14/35/2493814350034186899qXMsvS_th.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2493814350034186899qXMsvS)

Grilles are only off for pics and those little satellites (JBL) have since been removed and wires tidied up. :)

Has anyone had to replace one of their grills on a V.3 Studio 60. I'm just wondering how much something like this will cost me? I dropped it on the floor and the top corner edge split. Rats!!!

A new grill for the Monitor 11 V.4 cost $40 Canadian. This is slightly larger than the studio 60, but given the lower line, the price may be a little higher. It should be less than $50 US.

.
For those of you who have been as frustrated as I have with the lack of current literature on the Paradigm web site on the v.4 Studio series, Gary Takeda from Paradigm was nice enough to email me a copy of the new spec sheet, so I thought I would share it with everyone.

They still don't have the full brochure out yet, but this certainly helps those of us who were trying to figure out exactly what changed with the new series.

Ken

I'm looking to add in-wall speakers for my home theater and would like to get people thoughts.

If you have in-wall or in-ceiling speakers...

- what have you installed
- do you like them
- what would you do different if you were to do it again?
- do you know anything about the new Paradigm AMS-LCR's?

thanks!

I put in Paradigm AMS 250 in a friends house. The room was finished, but not furnished with hardwood floors. We had to use a CC-370 for the center. It sounded pretty good overall, but I attribute most of that to the excellent Pioneeer Elite 82 and it's MCACC.

I currently have a media room 5.1 setup, with Monitor 7s, CC370, and ADP370s. Don't recall the model number on the sub right off, the 1200 maybe.

Anyway, I also have a set of Monitor 11s in another room for stereo music.

We're moving to a new house, where I'd like to do a 7.1 setup. Would it make sense to move the 11s to be the new fronts, the 370s as the surrounds, and the Monitor 7s as the back surrounds? Or would the Monitor 7s be too big / overpowering?

If I were to buy new speakers for the back surrounds, should I go with a 2nd set of dipoles, or go with a set of smaller monitors for direct sound?

thanks

hms

I currently have a media room 5.1 setup, with Monitor 7s, CC370, and ADP370s. Don't recall the model number on the sub right off, the 1200 maybe.

Anyway, I also have a set of Monitor 11s in another room for stereo music.

We're moving to a new house, where I'd like to do a 7.1 setup. Would it make sense to move the 11s to be the new fronts, the 370s as the surrounds, and the Monitor 7s as the back surrounds? Or would the Monitor 7s be too big / overpowering?

If I were to buy new speakers for the back surrounds, should I go with a 2nd set of dipoles, or go with a set of smaller monitors for direct sound?

thanks

hms
Just my opinion, but the 7's are not made to be rears or surrounds, I think you would be wasting your money using them that way, not to mention you cannot get correct placement with a floor standing speakers, unless you have a very large room. I don't understand why some people use floorstanders as rears, like it's overkill, again imo.....

Well the time has come to retire my front 3 after 9 good years of use and still sounding incredible...Studio 100's and the cc450. Replaced with the Studio 100 v.4's and the CC690 v.4. I kept my surrounds the ADP 450'S and the 40's for the rears. Let the listening begin!!!!

I don't understand why some people use floorstanders as rears, like it's overkill, again imo.....

Multi channel music.

I currently have a media room 5.1 setup, with Monitor 7s, CC370, and ADP370s. Don't recall the model number on the sub right off, the 1200 maybe.

Anyway, I also have a set of Monitor 11s in another room for stereo music.

We're moving to a new house, where I'd like to do a 7.1 setup. Would it make sense to move the 11s to be the new fronts, the 370s as the surrounds, and the Monitor 7s as the back surrounds? Or would the Monitor 7s be too big / overpowering?

If I were to buy new speakers for the back surrounds, should I go with a 2nd set of dipoles, or go with a set of smaller monitors for direct sound?

thanks

hms
need more info what are you powering it with and what size is the room.

Unfinished basement, so it's not set in stone yet for room size. It will be about 14 feet wide, but quite a bit longer. I'd like to have an open area behind the "listening/viewing area" for other activities. So the "surrounds" by the main viewing couch and then the back surrounds just behind the viewing area, or all the way at the back of the room, but I'm not sure that would work.

My current receiver is 5.1, so going to 7.1 will require the purchase of a new receiver. I'm currently considering receivers in the class/price range of Marantz 7/8001, Denon 3806, Yamaha 2700, or Pioneer Elite 82/84TXS.

hms

those would power it but placing the towers against the back wall may not sound
ideal not saying it will not work you may be better off with with another set of 370's
but if you can move them off that back wall a foot and a half and still find the right
seating position 5.1 music would sound nice.

Well the time has come to retire my front 3 after 9 good years of use and still sounding incredible...Studio 100's and the cc450. Replaced with the Studio 100 v.4's and the CC690 v.4. I kept my surrounds the ADP 450'S and the 40's for the rears. Let the listening begin!!!!

BigNunz6, what kind of television is that, and how to you have the CC690 mounted on top of it? Nice setup by the way! Enjoy the new speakers.

BigNunz6, what kind of television is that, and how to you have the CC690 mounted on top of it? Nice setup by the way! Enjoy the new speakers.

Looks like my parents same Toshiba 65" HD TV... Picture is pretty nice...

Speakers look awesome... Much like my own... I love the sound and sound stage of those 3 put together !!!! :)

Great job.. Warp

I don't understand why some people use floorstanders as rears, like it's overkill, again imo.....
Multi channel music.
Bingo! That's why I went with my current set-up and it's been absolutely incredible for SACD and DVD-A multi-channel.
I struggled for a while with either bookshelves or ADP's, but in the end having Monitor 11's all around makes for some wonderful aural experiences.

BigNunz6, what kind of television is that, and how to you have the CC690 mounted on top of it? Nice setup by the way! Enjoy the new speakers.
Hey Nelson.....the speaker is suspended from heavy duty bridge cable, it's so heavy.....J/K.....the TV is a Toshiba 65 HX83, and the CC690 sits right on top perfect. I'm probably gonna get a floor speaker stand to put it in front of the T.V somewhere in the future...thanks for the props.....Mike :)

Looks like my parents same Toshiba 65" HD TV... Picture is pretty nice...

Speakers look awesome... Much like my own... I love the sound and sound stage of those 3 put together !!!! :)

Great job.. Warp
Hey Warp.....you are correct on the Toshiba, and yes the pic has been awesome. Speakers sound awesome already, cant wait to spend the whole weekend listening to music and watching movies.....Mike :)

Bignunz6,

Is that an ATI amp at the top of your rack?

Bignunz6,

Is that an ATI amp at the top of your rack?
Yes sir....2505 with a Pio Elite 49TXI modded.....

Hello fellow Paradigm owners, just upgraded from Monitor 7's to the 11's. How many hrs. is the so called "break in" time? I figured a few Stones and Metallica cds should do the job.. :D thanks in advance

Have any of you Paradigm owners auditioned the new Mini Monitor V5's? Thoughts?

Jon

I'm looking to add in-wall speakers for my home theater and would like to get people thoughts.

If you have in-wall or in-ceiling speakers...

- what have you installed
- do you like them
- what would you do different if you were to do it again?
- do you know anything about the new Paradigm AMS-LCR's?

thanks!

My 7.1 system is Studio 40 L/R CC-470 C, SA-30 in wall surrounds, SA-25 in wall rears. Fronts are Bi-amped using 6 channels of a NAD T973 and the backs and surrounds run off a Denon 3805. Seismic 10 Sub. I'm no expert, but sure sounds good to me. Movies have great surround effects, and multi channel music is quite enjoyable.

Hello fellow Paradigm owners, just upgraded from Monitor 7's to the 11's. How many hrs. is the so called "break in" time? I figured a few Stones and Metallica cds should do the job.. thanks in advance

If you've played one song at a reasonable level, they are broken in. :D Congratulations on the upgrade. Are they version 5.0? How would you compare the overall sound to what you had before?

LUap: sound is alot more powerful, driving them with a Parasound Classic 125w amp bi-wired. My jazz cd's sounding great.. just calibrated them with the meter, haven't watched a movie yet. Yes they are the new V 5.0

Yes sir....2505 with a Pio Elite 49TXI modded.....

I noticed your shelf has bowing under the weight. Wouldn't it be safer, more stable near the bottom of your shelf?

BTW, I have one too and I think they are a fantastic match for Paradigm.

Studio cc590 and cc690:
I audition both speakers today, and the cc590 seems to sound sharp and bright. the cc690 seems mellow and boring. Is it me or am I missing something. both speakers were driven by a 150Wx7 arcam amp.

i had my heart set on the cc690, but now i dont know if i should purchase the cc590.

if i purchase 250+ watt Amp to drive the cc690, will i get that sharp and bright sound, just the way i like?

please help!!!!!

thanks,
mike

were they at same height and distance or was the 690 closer to the floor
if the tweeters of both speakers were at ear level i do not know what to
think about that.

were they at same height and distance or was the 690 closer to the floor
if the tweeters of both speakers were at ear level i do not know what to
think about that.

both speakers were placed at exact location.

I noticed your shelf has bowing under the weight. Wouldn't it be safer, more stable near the bottom of your shelf?

BTW, I have one too and I think they are a fantastic match for Paradigm.
Bowing????...I think that might just be the angle of the picture or something.......That stand was part of a bigger custom pices that I cut down to the way it is now and it's at least 9yrs old, still very solid. I put the amp on top for better ventilation. If you look in my gallery there is a close up of it and how I have the pieces in there, pretty much the way it's been for years...Mike... :)

Studio cc590 and cc690:
I audition both speakers today...mike

I would think you should pick whichever one you perceive as the best match for whatever L/R speakers you are using. Try to audition using the same electronics you will use at home.

Hey Nelson.....the speaker is suspended from heavy duty bridge cable, it's so heavy.....J/K.....the TV is a Toshiba 65 HX83, and the CC690 sits right on top perfect. I'm probably gonna get a floor speaker stand to put it in front of the T.V somewhere in the future...thanks for the props.....Mike :)

Very nicely done BigNunz6.

Studio cc590 and cc690:
I audition both speakers today, and the cc590 seems to sound sharp and bright. the cc690 seems mellow and boring. Is it me or am I missing something. both speakers were driven by a 150Wx7 arcam amp.

i had my heart set on the cc690, but now i dont know if i should purchase the cc590.

if i purchase 250+ watt to drive the cc690, will i get that sharp and bright sound, just the way i like?

please help!!!!!

thanks,
mike
I just listened to the 690 today, they had the 590 sitting there, but I didn't listen to it because I want the 690, to be honest during a movie, the 690 sounded almost too harsh on the high end compared to my older cc450, too bright, almost hurt my ears, but I figure it's just the new tweeters and I could get used to it. My dealer then played the new Cream live concert and it blew me away! The 690 is definitely in my future. I think my dealer was using anthem gear to power the 690........Hope this helps :)

Bingo! That's why I went with my current set-up and it's been absolutely incredible for SACD and DVD-A multi-channel.
I struggled for a while with either bookshelves or ADP's, but in the end having Monitor 11's all around makes for some wonderful aural experiences.
Then let me ask you a question, I bought a pair of studio 40's to go with my 100's, I bought them to use as surrounds, with the idea of getting into multi-channel, but it seems most people on this site think dipoles are the way to go? I am now having a hard time trying to decide if I should by a pair of adp 470's? My dealer has one pair left for $770.00.... I could use my 40's as rears if I buy the 470's, but that seems like a little overkill and a waste of money( on a tight budget right now) :confused:

I would think you should pick whichever one you perceive as the best match for whatever L/R speakers you are using. Try to audition using the same electronics you will use at home.

the dealer did set up the 100s v4 L/R front, same as mind.

another problem i have is that my room is not ideal HT room, it has high ceiling with opening to everywhere, so i'm afraid the cc590 may not be adequate.

what to do??? :confused:

Will your dealer let you demo the centers at your house for a few days?

I just listened to the 690 today, they had the 590 sitting there, but I didn't listen to it because I want the 690, to be honest during a movie, the 690 sounded almost too harsh on the high end compared to my older cc450, too bright, almost hurt my ears, but I figure it's just the new tweeters and I could get used to it. My dealer then played the new Cream live concert and it blew me away! The 690 is definitely in my future. I think my dealer was using anthem gear to power the 690........Hope this helps :)

Hey buddy, nice decision on the 690... just a beast doing the grunt work...
The tweeter is only a different color cap..
My suggestion is to pair your speaks up with a more laid back amp...
Anthem has been suggested as being a bit on the more revealing side...
I found the same to be true when I heard the sound stage with an anthem amp, and with the same material and a rotel amp, tamed the brightness a touch.. but then again most receivers these days have a full eq for each speaker and you can go that way as well... if you don't get a pre-amp... like my setup, until they come out with some really cool Pre/Pros

I guess that would be a good question for the amp section...

??? Do Pre/Pro's have EQ's on every speaker like these receivers these days???
My Pioneer 81 has eq on every speaker channel...

the dealer did set up the 100s v4 L/R front, same as mind.
another problem i have is that my room is not ideal HT room, it has high ceiling with opening to everywhere, so i'm afraid the cc590 may not be adequate.
what to do??? :confused:

What to do is get the 690, and the 100's fills a big room with grace !!!
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/home%20theater/AVsetup002.jpg

good luck..


:D

Advice needed, have the 80's with cc 470 and adp 470's hooked to am Onkyo. Am going to replace my sub and was wondering which would fit better with my speakers, the HSU VTF-3 MK3 or the SVS PB12-NSD/2? This is only for HT. My room is 22x16 with 7.5' ceilings. Thanks to any...

What to do is get the 690, and the 100's fills a big room with grace !!!
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/home%20theater/AVsetup002.jpg

good luck..


:D

Warpdrv,
what Amp are you using to drive those speakers? i can't tell from your pic. is that a rotel 1095?

m

I just noticed that there's a little dent in the aluminum dome of my Studio CC470's tweeter. :eek:
I don't know how long it's been there. Can anyone tell me how this might have happened, what effect it could have and whether by removing the tweeter with an Allen wrench whether I'd be able to "pop" it out? :confused:

Warpdrv,
what Amp are you using to drive those speakers? i can't tell from your pic. is that a rotel 1095?

m
You got it... Rotel 1095... I really love the power of that amp..
I can turn my system up to full +12 and I get not a drop of distortion..
I rarely ever can play anything at that volume, as my ears will start to complain, but the range of power I get with the Rotel and the 100's is just perfect for my system.
The 100's and 690 paired together will require a large amount of power in my opinion.

At decent volume -10 those 100's are just amazing to me...
Just click my sig for a better view.. :)

Warp

I am new here and since income tax is just around the corner i am deciding to rebuild my home sound system that i had to sell a couple years ago. I previously had a denon receiver and b & w speakers. I owned a pair of pair of paradigms in the mid 90's that were large bookshelve speakers with an 8in. clear mid/bass driver and 1in soft textile dome tweeter i think they called it. Anyway these sounded great and i now just found out paradigm has revamped the monitor series (finally!). I have already decided on a 7.1 channel receiver (Yamaha htr-5960 100W x 7), my dilema here is that i auditioned the new monitor 7's v.5 yesterday and they sounded very clean (each speaker has two 5.5in bass drivers, one 5.5in midrange, and one 1in tweeter. For now i just want two channel sound and will add additional speakers later. Should i get the monitor 7's alone with no sub or the atom monitors with a 10"svs sub which is highly regarded? The price for both set ups is roughly the same. :mad: ps i heard some jbl venue speakers at best buy that also sounded really good to my ears and are far less expensive than the paradigms but i really had my heart set on paradigms. What would u do if cost were a major factor?

Since Paradigm has rolled the bass off higher on all but the monitor 11 in order to increase the efficiency, I don't know if you will be happy with the bass response without a subwoofer. I haven't listened to version 5 so I don't know. I liked the sound of the monitor 7 version 4, but the bass went deeper.

I just auditioned the entire Paradigm Monitor v.5 line and settled on the Monitor 9's. I did get a sub, in fact a whole 5.1 set up but I think that you would be happy with 2 channel audio without the sub but you would likely need the Monitor 9's. I felt that the 7's lacked that extra bit of low frequency that I get with the 9's.

I just auditioned the entire Paradigm Monitor v.5 line and settled on the Monitor 9's. I did get a sub, in fact a whole 5.1 set up but I think that you would be happy with 2 channel audio without the sub but you would likely need the Monitor 9's. I felt that the 7's lacked that extra bit of low frequency that I get with the 9's.

what sub did you get?

I just auditioned the entire Paradigm Monitor v.5 line and settled on the Monitor 9's. I did get a sub, in fact a whole 5.1 set up but I think that you would be happy with 2 channel audio without the sub but you would likely need the Monitor 9's. I felt that the 7's lacked that extra bit of low frequency that I get with the 9's.
thanks didnt get a chance to audition the entire line so this helps.

Hi,
I just purchased a pioneer vsx-81txv and the paradigm cinema ct 5.1 speakers. I notice the system sounds great at low volume but as soon as I turn it up a bit it seems like the sound is distorted. I have all the speakers set to small and used pioneers mic auto setup. I am using monster cables and banana plugs to connect the speakers. Any ideas what could be wrong? Could the receiver be too powerful for the speakers?

thanks,
kkgsxr

I got the PDR-10. It sounds really good for the cost and blends with the system really well.

Hello. I just saw these on craigslist (link at the bottom) and the model name and version number weren't given. They are being sold as part of a set that also includes a yamaha sub and center for $250. The seller says they're 5 years old, and the larger pair is 20x11.5x9.5 and the smaller is 10x8x6(inches). I emailed the seller to ask, but also wanted to get some expert feedback. The larger ones look like a pair of 5SE Mark II on ebay. Am I correct? What would be a fair price for them? I have no idea about the smaller pair.

If I purchase them, the larger pair will probably be used as my rears to replace the crappy Pioneers that I'm using from my old HTIB. My mains are Polk Monitor 60s and the center is a CSi3. Power is coming from an Onkyo 604. I'll probably use the smaller pair for zone 2 in my kitchen. I know in an ideal world my rears would match the fronts, but I suspect these are better than what I could get for the same price from Polk. If I do go with Polk, they'll probably be RTi4 or 6s. How would these Paradigms compare? Any idea how greatly voice-mis-matched they'd be?

I know there are a lot a questions in there. Any help is greatly appreciated.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/ele/280762352.html

I have the PDR-12 and love it. It matches my system well and I got it for a great price.

Very nice looking speakers. I was really thinking that I would get the 11's but after seeing their rather large size I went with the 9's. My setup now consists of:

- 2 @Monitor 9's
- 1 @Monitor CC-290
- 2 @Titan v4
- 1 @SVS PB10
- Denon AVR 1707 (plan to upgrade to the upcoming 38xx model later this year)

I'm very happy with the upgrade from my Phantoms. I'm mainly noticing better high's and mids. They are much more sensative than the Phantoms- I was ammazed how much loader the 9's were before making adjustments to the output levels.

I'll post some pic's soon.

I'm thinking of getting some Studio 20's and want some surrounds. I have a small living room and think the ADP 590 are too big and too much surround for my wall directly behind/against my couch. Surrounds would be mounted to back wall right being my couch and up a couple feet I guess. Would it be totally wrong/distracting to put Monitor line adp 190's in back with the Studio 20's up front?

I guess maybe I should just go Mini Monitors up front but I will not be using a sub and the Studio 20's bass seems to go deeper than the Mini's.

This will be a 4.0 setup.

Any thought's? Thanks.

I just purchased a pioneer vsx-81txv and the paradigm cinema ct 5.1 speakers. I notice the system sounds great at low volume but as soon as I turn it up a bit it seems like the sound is distorted.

If you ran the MCACC, make sure the program didn't re-set your speakers to large. Also go in to Data Check (?) and look at the changes the eq made. Sometime it will boost a certain frequency and that might be your problem.

You also might be trying to get too much outta those speakers too possibly.

I just noticed that there's a little dent in the aluminum dome of my Studio CC470's tweeter. :eek:
I don't know how long it's been there. Can anyone tell me how this might have happened, what effect it could have and whether by removing the tweeter with an Allen wrench whether I'd be able to "pop" it out? :confused:

This has happened to me a few times. You can order a replacement tweeter for $60 and replace it yourself in five minutes. Your Paradigm dealer can help you out.

Good luck.

This has happened to me a few times. You can order a replacement tweeter for $60 and replace it yourself in five minutes. Your Paradigm dealer can help you out.

Good luck.

How did it happen to yours? Accident?

[QUOTE=uabcar]Very nice looking speakers. I was really thinking that I would get the 11's but after seeing their rather large size I went with the 9's. My setup now consists of:

- 2 @Monitor 9's
- 1 @Monitor CC-290
- 2 @Titan v4
- 1 @SVS PB10
- Denon AVR 1707 (plan to upgrade to the upcoming 38xx model later this year)

I'm very happy with the upgrade from my Phantoms. I'm mainly noticing better high's and mids. They are much more sensative than the Phantoms- I was ammazed how much loader the 9's were before making adjustments to the output levels.

I'll post some pic's soon.[/QUOTE good to see ur happy with ur purchase, i am also considering purchasing the 9's and the svs sub that u have but with ayamaha htr-5960 receiver. How does the svs sub sound to u? Do u think for the low price it is offered it beats paradigms similar priced subs?thnx

could you guys recommend me a good center channel to match my paradigm titans which im using for fronts and backs ? thanks.

could you guys recommend me a good center channel to match my paradigm titans which im using for fronts and backs ? thanks.
would another titan fit it would match better than anything else.

I use a 270 center with my titans up front and it seems to work fairly well.

Would ADP 190's sound good with Studio 20's as mains (no sub)? The ADP 590 are too big for my space.

They will sound fine.
As good as adp590's?
No, but get what works for you and your room. The 20's are a fine speaker.
FWIW, I ran a pair of atoms for my rear surrounds for a year allong with Studio 60's as mains.
They did not sound the same but they sounded fine.
Regards
Knights of Ni
(If it was me I would get 4 Studio 20's and forget the ADP's)

I recommend the new CC290 v.5.
It retails for around $399 but can be had a bit less. I paid $329 for mine and it matches my Monitor 3's perfectly. I know they are not Titans, which I also have a pair but not in use at the moment, but the sound, dialogue, etc. of the 290 is far superior to the CC170, which I have and replaced with the 290.
Good luck.

hmmm Paradigm Phantom v.4 just went on sale in my area, i cant remember but is there some sort of trade in deal where you can trade in your old speakers with paradigm and upgrade at a discount, could someone clarify this for me or does a program like this even exist ? anyways the phantoms are going for $476 with 5yr warr and i am highly considering upgrading from my titans.

Can anyone give me their opinions on the Studio 60's v.4 and Monitor 11's v.5 speakers. Which would you buy and which will sound better?

[good to see ur happy with ur purchase, i am also considering purchasing the 9's and the svs sub that u have but with ayamaha htr-5960 receiver. How does the svs sub sound to u? Do u think for the low price it is offered it beats paradigms similar priced subs?thnx

Rob973- I'm very happy with the sub (PB-10). It amazes me how much LF output a 10" sub can provide. My room is 16x16 so it's not huge- although I frequently leave the doors into the room open. I would not hesitate to buy another SVS sub. In fact if we end up building a new house I'll almost certainly plan on getting one of the bigger ones.

I've not really spent much time with Paradigm subs but my sense based on what I've read here is that the Servo 15 and Seismic 10/12 must really rock - but - they are also much more expensive. The PDR/PS series is closer to the price of the SVS PB-10 and PB-12. Based on their wattage and their physical size, it seems like the SVS subs would have the edge- dollar for dollar.

Do note that the SVS subs are rather large.

Then let me ask you a question, I bought a pair of studio 40's to go with my 100's, I bought them to use as surrounds, with the idea of getting into multi-channel, but it seems most people on this site think dipoles are the way to go? I am now having a hard time trying to decide if I should by a pair of adp 470's? My dealer has one pair left for $770.00.... I could use my 40's as rears if I buy the 470's, but that seems like a little overkill and a waste of money( on a tight budget right now) :confused:
Whether or not you're on a budget I would think your multi-channel hirez music will be better suited to the 40s than the ADP-470s.
Even against the ADP590's I would think the 40's would be better.
I don't use the crossover when listening to multi-channel music. I want the full range of the music from each speaker so I keep my DV45 set to large for the multi-channel analog outs.

The only time I change to small is when I'm listening to a stereo SACD, so that the sub can add the lowest bass. With 5.1 SACD/DVD-A there's already a .1 channel on it.

If you love multi-channel music then kick your player to LARGE for all speakers and keep those Studio 40 bad boys as your rears. That's my opinion.

so no one has any comments on the paradigm phantom ?

Convoluted Paradigm upgrade idea?

I'm running an all v3 system now (60s/CC570/ADP470s), in looking at the (STILL OLD! :( ) Paradigm Studio line-up on their web site, it seems that the 20s/40s/60s had the same tweeter and midwoofer drivers. I’m assuming the x-overs were different.

So I'm thinking, what if I bought a Studio 20v4, and switched the tweeters (and maybe even the mid woofers) with my Studio 60s? Does anyone know if the new version 4 line follow in the same fashion with similar drivers?

Then I would move up to the big mutha CC690 center. I could put the v3 drivers in the new 20s, and then they may match better with the ADP470s, using the 20s as rear surrounds.

It almost seems like the most economical way to go. :D
Any comments?

jkhome - I have not looked at the v4s, but do you know if the 20v4 cabinets have exactly the same dimensions and internal configuration as the 20v3? There's a lot of design effort spent on the interaction between drivers and cabinet configuration. My guess would be that the cabinets are not identical, and interchanging drivers and expecting to get the same sound is not that simple. If it were me, I would not rely on speculation - unless you can afford to try it and then take it all apart again if you don't like it.

Whether or not you're on a budget I would think your multi-channel hirez music will be better suited to the 40s than the ADP-470s.
Even against the ADP590's I would think the 40's would be better.
I don't use the crossover when listening to multi-channel music. I want the full range of the music from each speaker so I keep my DV45 set to large for the multi-channel analog outs.

The only time I change to small is when I'm listening to a stereo SACD, so that the sub can add the lowest bass. With 5.1 SACD/DVD-A there's already a .1 channel on it.

If you love multi-channel music then kick your player to LARGE for all speakers and keep those Studio 40 bad boys as your rears. That's my opinion.
Thanks for the input, I'm kinda old school, so I think I will build the system using my 40's as the side surrounds and pick up some 20's for rears if I go to 7.1.....

jkhome - I have not looked at the v4s,

Don't know about specific configurations. I'm most interested in a performance increase in the high end; a few other posters have played around with this idea, with positive results. Switching out tweeters is pretty easy and certainly reversible.

Hi,
I just purchased a pioneer vsx-81txv and the paradigm cinema ct 5.1 speakers. I notice the system sounds great at low volume but as soon as I turn it up a bit it seems like the sound is distorted. I have all the speakers set to small and used pioneers mic auto setup. I am using monster cables and banana plugs to connect the speakers. Any ideas what could be wrong? Could the receiver be too powerful for the speakers?

What Cinema series speakers are they? the Speakers will handle up to 100 watts for the 90 & 110 cinema & 85wpc for the cinema 70. I Have the 330's for L/C/R & cinema ADP's for the rear and they sound amazing! I'm pushing them with a Onyko 804 - @ 105 wpc.

Thanks for the input, I'm kinda old school, so I think I will build the system using my 40's as the side surrounds and pick up some 20's for rears if I go to 7.1.....
Nice! Now you're talking. :D

I finally gave in to temptation and ordered a servo 15 to replace my still new pw1000. Some of you mentioned the pw1000 wouldn't keep up with the rest of my system. You guys are killing my budget.... but your right.

My system now will be;

-Studio 100-mains
-cc590-center
adp 370 - surrounds
servo 15 - sub
Anthem avm20 - Pre-Pro
Anthem mca50 - Amp
Anthem mca20 - amp

The extra 2 channels are for bi- amping the studio 100's this gives me 400 watts per speaker.... amazing clarity and sound stage...

Oh yeh, my wife is mad at you (it wasn't my fault I said, they made me do it!)

Can anyone give me their opinions on the Studio 60's v.4 and Monitor 11's v.5 speakers. Which would you buy and which will sound better?

In my opinion the Studio line is definitely the way to go if you can afford them and you can drive them properly.

My 7.1 system is Studio 40 L/R CC-470 C, SA-30 in wall surrounds, SA-25 in wall rears. Fronts are Bi-amped using 6 channels of a NAD T973 and the backs and surrounds run off a Denon 3805. Seismic 10 Sub. I'm no expert, but sure sounds good to me. Movies have great surround effects, and multi channel music is quite enjoyable.

Roland
what do you think of the sound of the sa-30's when you have them playing with all channels (i have a denon as well and love the option to use all the channels)

do they sound like a normal speaker....can you tell that they are not a cabinet speaker??? I haven't had the chance to listen to many in wall speakers and the ones i have listened to either sound like a cheap intercom speaker like when you were in school or great but cost $$$$
Thanks

What do you think about this? these are coming our this soon and i'm thinking of the ams-lcr's and the ams-150r sm

www dot scowcroftandassociates.com/pdfs/Paradigm%20AMS%20v3%20Preliminary%20Data%20Sheet%20December% 202006.pdf

you can send me a personal message as i would probably see it sooner vs trying to find your post here...

I just bought Paradigm ADP 590s. I thought I remembered reading about where dipole speakers have a specific left or right speaker when using a pair.

But these are not sold as 2 to a box -- one in each box.

So does one need to go on the left side and one on the right -- or does it not matter?

They should be marked on the each speaker which one is left and right.

SCEvan , I have a pair of phantom v.2 as my surrounds, I have a pair af esprit v.3 for my mains, with a cc-270 v.4 for center, The v.3 and v.4 are identical except for cosmetics, that is why i have the phantoms in back. I'm happy with my paradigm setup. I have been thinking of selling all 5 speakers and looking into the new monitor line.

Can anyone who has the ADP 590's comment on how they perform? Mine will be coming in next week and I am going from Studio 20's so I am kinda nervous. Also has anyone gone from ADP 470's to the new version? Is bass stronger with the added driver on the side or does the new enclosure/smaller "side drivers" make it a moot point?

Can anyone who has the ADP 590's comment on how they perform? Mine will be coming in next week and I am going from Studio 20's so I am kinda nervous. Also has anyone gone from ADP 470's to the new version? Is bass stronger with the added driver on the side or does the new enclosure/smaller "side drivers" make it a moot point?

I too am wondering the same.. I have the adp-470's now, but really like the new V.5 studios...

Hope someone can say if it is worth it to get rid of my 470's for the 590's.. :confused:

They should be marked on the each speaker which one is left and right.

Where? I don't see it.

Where? I don't see it.

It's not marked anywhere on the speaker?

Maybe it doesn't matter with those, my Polk Audio FXi3's were marked because it matter which was left and which was right.

Or you could contact a paradigm dealer and ask him.

It's not marked anywhere on the speaker?

Maybe it doesn't matter with those, my Polk Audio FXi3's were marked because it matter which was left and which was right.

Or you could contact a paradigm dealer and ask him.

Are you just guessing or are you 100% sure there should be a specific left or right ADP 590?

They came in different boxes -- not one box. So its not like they are a matched pair.

Are you just guessing or are you 100% sure there should be a specific left or right ADP 590?

They came in different boxes -- not one box. So its not like they are a matched pair.

I'm guessing with the Paradigms.

are the speakers exactly the same. same drivers on the left side as well as right on each one?

I'm guessing with the Paradigms.

are the speakers exactly the same. same drivers on the left side as well as right on each one?

Yeah, same on the right and left. So maybe it doesn't matter?

Yeah, same on the right and left. So maybe it doesn't matter?

That is what I am thinking, especially since they are not marked left & right.
You might want to call your local paradigm dealer and confirm that, or maybe somebody on here will chime in and let you know.

Are the fronts, as an example the Monitor 7's, marked left or right? I don't think so, so the same would apply to the ADP surrounds. They don't have a specific side. IMHO

Are the fronts, as an example the Monitor 7's, marked left or right? I don't think so, so the same would apply to the ADP surrounds. They don't have a specific side. IMHO

My Polk FXi3's were marked and it did matter, but that is Polk's surrounds.

Are the fronts, as an example the Monitor 7's, marked left or right? I don't think so, so the same would apply to the ADP surrounds. They don't have a specific side. IMHO


I beleive that the Adp SHOULD be marked... Since the Adp are dipoles, one half of the speaker is in phase, while other half is out of phase....

If this being true, and speakers NOT marked, you have a great chance of having the OUT of phase parts of speakers aiming in the wrong direction..

The Adp-470 V.3 for example, have LEFT/RIGHT markings on them..

Just my 2 cents...

I beleive that the Adp SHOULD be marked... Since the Adp are dipoles, one half of the speaker is in phase, while other half is out of phase....

If this being true, and speakers NOT marked, you have a great chance of having the OUT of phase parts of speakers aiming in the wrong direction..

The Adp-470 V.3 for example, have LEFT/RIGHT markings on them..

Just my 2 cents...

sounds good, I could be wrong

I beleive that the Adp SHOULD be marked... Since the Adp are dipoles, one half of the speaker is in phase, while other half is out of phase....

If this being true, and speakers NOT marked, you have a great chance of having the OUT of phase parts of speakers aiming in the wrong direction..

The Adp-470 V.3 for example, have LEFT/RIGHT markings on them..

Just my 2 cents...

One thing I forgot the mention..

Just the other day, I intalled the new AdP 390 (I belive that is what they were..), and to my surprise, they did NOT have markings.. I thought this was very strange, as I comfirmed that the speakers are indeed dipole.. they must be marked to work right..

Not sure if paradigm forgot to mark the speakers, or just lazy...

From Axiom site: http://www.axiomaudio.com/surroundsexplained.html ( I know it's not Paradigm)

Definition: Dipole Surrounds

One driver is out of phase with the other. This means that when one cone moves outward, it compresses the air molecules, while the other cone moves inward, resulting in a rarefaction or expansion of air molecules.These opposing bass waves cancel at the sides of the speaker, producing a "null" in the listening area (to the sides), whereas the midrange and treble sounds fire forward and to the rear, resulting in a reflected and ambient wash of sound much like that heard in a big movie auditorium. Because of these qualities, dipole surrounds have become standard features of small mixing studios where movie soundtracks are assembled, because they imitate the wash of ambient sounds heard in a large auditorium.

One driver is out of phase not the speakers in tandom.

The ADP-590's are not marked, nor is their box they come in. Mine just came in last night. And let me tell you they sound incredible. Here are some pics for those interested.

http://www.pbase.com/neff2k/adp590

The ADP-590's are not marked, nor is their box they come in. Mine just came in last night. And let me tell you they sound incredible. Here are some pics for those interested.

http://www.pbase.com/neff2k/adp590

is the casing plastic?

is the casing plastic?

If it is, it is simply a plastic covering to a wood internal structure. The plastic when you tap on it sounds solid. So I guess to answer your question yes the outside is plastic. But don't let that distract you. The speaker is an extremely solid speaker.

If it is, it is simply a plastic covering to a wood internal structure. The plastic when you tap on it sounds solid. So I guess to answer your question yes the outside is plastic. But don't let that distract you. The speaker is an extremely solid speaker.


Are you using these speakers in a 7.1 system or 5.1??

Just curious how well they mate in a 7.1 system, with direct speakers in rear...

How well do you hear the mids and treble?? (do you hear good seperation for stereo pans)..

Thanx.. :) :)

Are you using these speakers in a 7.1 system or 5.1??

Just curious how well they mate in a 7.1 system, with direct speakers in rear...

How well do you hear the mids and treble?? (do you hear good seperation for stereo pans)..

Thanx.. :) :)

For right now they are only part of a 5.1 system. This summer I plan to put two Studio 20's in the rear for 7.1. Once I go to 7.1 though I will need to pick up a 2 channel amp (Anthem A2). Only watched 1 movie on it so far (Polar Express HD-DVD) but mids and trebles actually sounded incredible. These speakers replaced Infinity QPS-1's, and there isn't even a comparison. The amount of detail I hear from the surrounds is amazing.

Where do you guys buy Paradigm for good price? I'm thinking about the new mini or titan monitor v.5. Thanks. Also, should I get Paradigm sub or SVS or Hsu? My budget for a sub is around $550. Thanks.

the only place they can be had are authorized dealers as far as i know
there are 3 in houston.

the only place they can be had are authorized dealers as far as i know
there are 3 in houston.

Exactly. And if I were to buy a $1200 pair of surround speakers, my dealer better be able to tell me how to install them! :confused:

That said, my dealer couldn't tell me what size spade connectors Paradigms use (5/16"), so I understand totally.

Hello

Im about 95% ready to pull the trigger on the Yamaha RX-V659 (360$). Just wondering if anyone has or is using or opinions on using Paradigm Monitor v.5 line of speakers with this receiver. CC-290,2x Monitor 9's, 2x ADP-390's, HSU 3.3, Denon 2910, Panny 50 plasma. Just wondering on any overly bright issues with this line up. I also considered a Marantz 8001, Denon 3806 but 1k-2k is a little much ATM with all the HDMI, 7.1 pcm probs going on wich it seems most of the receivers ATM have. (Any other Receiver opinions to get me through for a year or so till things smooth out)Looking to hold off on the big purchase till all this stuff is worked out. I will just direct connect my DVD and DVR HDMI stuff to the Panny for now. Thanx for any Input/Opinions

EDIT= 90% HT use.

Well..

Just bought the 590's today, and did major testing with phasing..

Seems that both speakers (left/right) are made the same (both have same driver phase directions.. Basically, they both are the same speaker)..

So....

I mounted the left speaker normal (with logo on back of speaker correct way), and tried the right speaker upsidedown (seems you can mount the 590 upright / upsidedown)..

So, the right speaker has logo on back upsidedown, compared to left.. (so left speaker has tweeter on top, while right speaker has tweeter on bottom)..

and....

bingo, speakers are in phase with each other.. (fronts of both speaker are in phase, aswell as backs are in phase with each other.)..

When mounting both speaker in normal positions (have tweeter on top), the front of the speaker are out of phase of each other...(left speaker had fronts in phase with main speakers, but right speaker had out of phase drivers facing the front speakers)


I confimed this test with AVIA audio phase testing section..

This Avia test also let me know what speaker was inphase with mains...

I really wish paradigm would have marked the speakers (left/right), but oh well..

Next project, is to make the speakers bipolar.. instead of dipole..

My theory is the take the back drivers (tweeter, mids, firing to back of room), and reverse the phase on them(behind the speaker terminal block).. This way, they will be in phase with front half of speaker..

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?? Does it seem logical?? :) :)

Exactly. And if I were to buy a $1200 pair of surround speakers, my dealer better be able to tell me how to install them! :confused:

That said, my dealer couldn't tell me what size spade connectors Paradigms use (5/16"), so I understand totally.

What exactly are you wanting to know? The mounting is extremely easy. If you look at the following picture you will see:

http://i5.pbase.com/g6/69/57869/3/74777031.9Rvhd6Gy.jpg
Click here for larger size picture (http://www.pbase.com/neff2k/image/74777031/original)

I have also scanned in the instructions that came with the speakers. The show a pretty good illustration on how to mount the speaker:

Paradigm Studio ADP-590 Installation Instruction Sheet (http://www.pbase.com/neff2k/image/74825227/large)

At the bottom you will notice you can select "Original" size and it will give you a larger picture. Warning the original is a large file.

And good idea there Muad'dib on turning the one speaker upside down. I believe you are exactly right on this. They have created the speaker mounts making turning the whole speaker upside down as easy literally flipping the speaker upside down and hanging it the same way. In the picture below you can see the lips on the top and bottom where the spade inserts for hanging:

http://k47.pbase.com/g6/69/57869/3/74777033.bSqmusG4.jpg
Larger version of above picture (http://www.pbase.com/neff2k/image/74777033/original)

Hope this helps.

Pbase seems to be having problems with linking at the moment, you may have to just click on the links. Sorry about that.

What exactly are you wanting to know?

My ADP470s were marked L & R, so I'm good :) My comment was directed to caesar1's dealer, who let him walk out the door without telling him whether his new dipoles are "mirror imaged"( one made for left, one for right) or not.

If the new ones aren't marked, they must be interchangable.

http://k47.pbase.com/g6/69/57869/3/74777033.bSqmusG4.jpg
Larger version of above picture (http://www.pbase.com/neff2k/image/74777033/original)



Whats that white dot above the P logo? Do both speakers have it?

Inspection sticker. Good eyes though.

My ADP470s were marked L & R, so I'm good :) My comment was directed to caesar1's dealer, who let him walk out the door without telling him whether his new dipoles are "mirror imaged"( one made for left, one for right) or not.

If the new ones aren't marked, they must be interchangable.


From my testing, this is not the case...

If you mount one of the speakers on the wrong side (guessing what speaker goes on left surround for example), I have confimed that you have a 50/50 chance of getting the front part of that speaker out of phase with mains...

AVIA has a phase test for main left, and left surround (plays pink noise in-phase from both of the speakers, then out-of-phase, so you can check..).. :eek:

Can anyone comment on the Monitor CC-190 center channel with Monitor 9's? I'm limited on the size of the center channel and the Monitor CC-190 would fit perfectly in my stand. My proposed setup will include:

(2) Front - Paradigm Monitor 9 v.5
(1) Center - Paradigm CC-190 v.5
(2) Surrounds - Paradigm Atom v.5

Your monitor 9s will play much louder, and if you intend to watch movies at high volumes, the 190 may not do it. If you intend to keep the volume moderate, it should match fine.

I visited my paradigm Signature dealer to discuss the pruchase of a pair of S8's only to find out that apparently Paradigm is in the midst of a model change and none to be had. I was told basically that the Studio line will become the Sig line and Sig will become something else?? Not sure what's going on, but looking for the best paradigm towers I can get. Also what is the CC-690?? no info on their site.

Thanks,

Lou

The last few posts were right on cue :)

I am thinking about getting the ADP 590's to complete my 5.1 system. I have no room for floor or shelf rear speakers. I plan to mount the ADP's slightly forward of my seating position 6" below the ceiling. My TV and seating are opposite each other against the wall in a 15x15x8 room. There are constraint that demand the ADP be that high on the wall, approx 7' to center, however none for front to back positioning.

set up currently:

Denon 2807
Studio 60-front
cc590- center
svs sb-12 plus

Is this is a reasonable way to round out to 5.1

Thanks

Don

I visited my paradigm Signature dealer to discuss the pruchase of a pair of S8's only to find out that apparently Paradigm is in the midst of a model change and none to be had. I was told basically that the Studio line will become the Sig line and Sig will become something else?? Not sure what's going on, but looking for the best paradigm towers I can get. Also what is the CC-690?? no info on their site.

Thanks,

Lou
Thats not the case as far as I know, the sigs are coming out with a new line, but they are still sigs and the studio's are still reference....The cc-690 is the top-o-the line center channel speaker in the studio reference line-up...... :)

I visited my paradigm Signature dealer to discuss the pruchase of a pair of S8's only to find out that apparently Paradigm is in the midst of a model change and none to be had. I was told basically that the Studio line will become the Sig line and Sig will become something else?? Not sure what's going on, but looking for the best paradigm towers I can get. Also what is the CC-690?? no info on their site.

Thanks,

Lou

http://www.castercomm.com/press.cfm?id=113

I visited my paradigm Signature dealer to discuss the pruchase of a pair of S8's only to find out that apparently Paradigm is in the midst of a model change and none to be had. I was told basically that the Studio line will become the Sig line and Sig will become something else?? Not sure what's going on, but looking for the best paradigm towers I can get. Also what is the CC-690?? no info on their site.

Thanks,

Lou

In addition to what JohnnyV and DrPainMD posted scroll back a few pages in this thread. There is plenty of discussion about the v4s and v2s.

My ADP470s were marked L & R, so I'm good :) My comment was directed to caesar1's dealer, who let him walk out the door without telling him whether his new dipoles are "mirror imaged"( one made for left, one for right) or not.

If the new ones aren't marked, they must be interchangable.

I spoke to the dealer. He said since they don't come as a pair (separate boxes) -- and there is no markings, there is no left or right.

Note that the manual says "your speakers may be marked as left or right" -- but I assume that is standard manual language for all their ADP speakers.

From my testing, this is not the case...

If you mount one of the speakers on the wrong side (guessing what speaker goes on left surround for example), I have confimed that you have a 50/50 chance of getting the front part of that speaker out of phase with mains...

AVIA has a phase test for main left, and left surround (plays pink noise in-phase from both of the speakers, then out-of-phase, so you can check..).. :eek:

If you find it out of phase, rather than turning one ADP speaker upside down, wouldn't you just switch speakers from left to right (and the other from right to left)?

If you find it out of phase, rather than turning one ADP speaker upside down, wouldn't you just switch speakers from left to right (and the other from right to left)?

would changing the polarity(red to black) of the speaker wire make a difference?

I spoke to the dealer. He said since they don't come as a pair (separate boxes) -- and there is no markings, there is no left or right.

Note that the manual says "your speakers may be marked as left or right" -- but I assume that is standard manual language for all their ADP speakers.

If you can get your hands on one of these:

http://www.avrev.com/music/revs/ultimatedvda.shtml

There is a great test track that determines whether the fronts are in phase with their corresponding side/backs. It is also helpful to find the best location for the surrounds.

I am considering the Studio 20 V.4 for a 5.1 system. Anyone have experience with them?
It will be a little while before I can audition them (dealer is not close), and wanted to know if there are some things I need to know up front. I've read the great reviews, but would be interested in user's comments.

I am considering the Studio 20 V.4 for a 5.1 system. Anyone have experience with them?

Like what do you want to know? Have you listened to them for yourself to see if YOU like them.
Personally I think they are great and V.4 is Paradigms' best yet.

mounted the left speaker normal (with logo on back of speaker correct way), and tried the right speaker upsidedown (seems you can mount the 590 upright / upsidedown

This doesn't make sense to me. If you had to mount the speaker upside down for it to work properly, don't you think Paradigm would have made mention of this? One would think they took this into consideration when designing them. I mean no one with the previous versions has mentioned this, why wold they change this and not make mention of it?

Next project, is to make the speakers bipolar.. instead of dipole..


Why would you want to change from di-pole to bi-pole? Once again Paradigm designed their speakers to operate this way and as such are regarded as some of the best functioning surrounds out there because of the way they operate....I guess I am confused....

Well..

I mounted the left speaker normal (with logo on back of speaker correct way), and tried the right speaker upsidedown (seems you can mount the 590 upright / upsidedown)..



Seems like a lot of peeps got the surround bug this weekend :)

I just got home from my local Paradigm dealer with my new ADP-590's and as neff2k has shown with his pictures they are beautiful and solid.

After closer inspection, I don't believe that paradigm designed the ADP-590 to be mounted upside down. However, they certainly can be.

(edit)"I have them upside down to accommodate the speaker wire between the wall and the speaker until I can run the wire through the crawl space.

It seems that the top plate and bottom plate of the speaker are identical. This would make sense from a manufacturing standpoint b/c the same part is used for both applications. As such the mounting recesses on the speaker are on top and bottom making it possible to mount UpSiDeDoWn.

There is no mention in the owners manual or the installation instructions suggestion that the speaker should be mounted upside down. But the OM does mention that "ADP speakers may be marked left and right indicating placement for optional performance." I asked my dealer about this and he didn't really have a quick answer but pointed out that they are not sold as a pair so left and right seem unlikely.

I would guess the same owner manual was used for the older reference ADP models and they "may" be marked left and right.

Anyway, I'm going to go hook them up and see if my Audyssey eq can help with the tuning.

Have fun everyone

DN

I just got delivery of my Studio 60s, and I'm very happy with my decision to go with these vs. the Monitor 11s. I thank everyone who gave me input to help me make this decision.

After listening to them for a while with a straight one wire connection, I went ahead and bi-amped them. Before I did so I made note of the volume level of a certain recording (-28) so I could compare it before and after the bi-amping.

To my surprise the sound level after bi-amping didn't change. I had expected that putting twice as much power into each speaker would have made a noticeable difference in the volume.

Can anyone tell me whether this is what I should have expected and, if so, why the volume would not have changed with twice the power?

Thanks.

Ken

you did not change the input wattage just added a second wire there is a thread
on the subject some claim to hear a diiference most of us do not.

To my surprise the sound level after bi-amping didn't change. I had expected that putting twice as much power into each speaker would have made a noticeable difference in the volume. If the two amps are matched, the output levels will be the same resulting in no level change. Also, you are NOT putting twice the power into each speaker.

Can anyone tell me whether this is what I should have expected and, if so, why the volume would not have changed with twice the power?You should have expected what you got: no change.

you did not change the input wattage just added a second wire there is a thread
on the subject some claim to hear a difference most of us do not.
Just to clarify, assuming I'm understanding you correcty: I bi-amped, not bi-wired. I took the output terminals that would normally power the rear surrounds and put them on one of the 2 pairs of inputs on the speakers, and left the original front speaker outputs to power the other pair. So one amplifier output is powering the one set of inputs on the speaker, and the rear surround output is powering the other input. So as far as I know I have doubled the wattage going into that speaker. I don't know how it could not sound louder.

i understood most rec have the same wattage in the bi-amp mode and most of the
time no change in sound or output.

So as far as I know I have doubled the wattage going into that speaker. YOu doubled the potential output from the two but since you have connected the two separately, each can only give the equivalent of what you started with. Since the woofer power consumption is the limiting factor, it makes little difference to add another for the HF.
I don't know how it could not sound louder.Because you have not changed the voltage gain. Check some other threads on AVS about biamping.

Ennio Morricone got a special oscar! Finally! I know nothing about bi-amping or wiring.

Bring on the Pancakes!

YOu doubled the potential output from the two but since you have connected the two separately, each can only give the equivalent of what you started with. Since the woofer power consumption is the limiting factor, it makes little difference to add another for the HF.
Because you have not changed the voltage gain. Check some other threads on AVS about biamping.
Am I wasting my time doing this then? I haven't read the other threads yet, and I certainly will do that. But I was under the impression that there should be an improvement in sound quality, even if not in volume. I don't really care that the volume didn't increase; it's plenty loud. I was just curious why. But I did expect there to be a quality difference, otherwise why bother?

Some have reported quality increases but most have not. My experience is that such biamping (not true biamping, btw) is a waste of money and effort.

Some have reported quality increases but most have not. My experience is that such biamping (not true biamping, btw) is a waste of money and effort.
I do understand that true bi-amping would involve two separate amps. In my case, since I'm not using the rear surround outputs anyway, I figured that I might as well use them for this. Do you see any reason not to do this if they are otherwise going to remain unused? Is there any disadvantage (in terms of sound quality) to doing this?

Seems like a lot of peeps got the surround bug this weekend :)

I just got home from my local Paradigm dealer with my new ADP-590's and as neff2k has shown with his pictures they are beautiful and solid.

After closer inspection, I don't believe that paradigm designed the ADP-590 to be mounted upside down. However, they certainly can be.

(edit)"I have them upside down to accommodate the speaker wire between the wall and the speaker until I can run the wire through the crawl space.

It seems that the top plate and bottom plate of the speaker are identical. This would make sense from a manufacturing standpoint b/c the same part is used for both applications. As such the mounting recesses on the speaker are on top and bottom making it possible to mount UpSiDeDoWn.

There is no mention in the owners manual or the installation instructions suggestion that the speaker should be mounted upside down. But the OM does mention that "ADP speakers may be marked left and right indicating placement for optional performance." I asked my dealer about this and he didn't really have a quick answer but pointed out that they are not sold as a pair so left and right seem unlikely.

I would guess the same owner manual was used for the older reference ADP models and they "may" be marked left and right.

Anyway, I'm going to go hook them up and see if my Audyssey eq can help with the tuning.

Have fun everyone

DN

I emailed Paradigm this weekend about the phase concerns.. When I get an answer, I will post it here...

:)

I do understand that true bi-amping would involve two separate amps.Nope. True biamping involves removing the crossover from the speaker box and implementing a line-level crossover in front of the two separate amps.

In my case, since I'm not using the rear surround outputs anyway, I figured that I might as well use them for this. Do you see any reason not to do this if they are otherwise going to remain unused? Is there any disadvantage (in terms of sound quality) to doing this?No reason not to except for the cost/complexity and, of course, the pointlessness.

I do understand that true bi-amping would involve two separate amps. In my case, since I'm not using the rear surround outputs anyway, I figured that I might as well use them for this. Do you see any reason not to do this if they are otherwise going to remain unused? Is there any disadvantage (in terms of sound quality) to doing this?

Here are my experiences so far with my Studio 60v3s. Because of my room layout, my equipment is in a closet to the side of the room, with a 50' cable run to each speaker. Using the 60s, I started with both my receiver/pre/pro and power amp in the closet, driving long speaker cables (Liberty 12/4s) to the speakers.

By moving the amp to behind one of the Studio 60s, using a longer interconnect and shorter speaker wire, I got much tighter bass, cleaners highs, and much more depth. But my setup is extreme, which may explain the improvements.

My next step would be to buy a second identical power amp, and vertically biamp the 60s, which would shorten my total speaker cable lengths from 10' each, to 1' each. Without an increase of interconnect length. Whether or not this upgrade would be worth the $$$ is my call :) It would involve adding more interconnect connections, as my Rotel only has a single set of L/R preouts, which would be a bad thing. Plus another grand for a matching USED Aragon amp. :eek: In reality I don't see it happening.

Without going to an active biamp/ripping out the stock crossovers/ full tilt diy exercise, in most cases passive bi-amping may not be worth it. Paradigm does mention it may be an improvement, but then again they also sell amplifiers. :D

BTW, I do passively biamp my center, only because I use a stereo amp to drive it, and had the bi-wire cabling already in place.

Nope. True biamping involves removing the crossover from the speaker box and implementing a line-level crossover in front of the two separate amps.

No reason not to except for the cost/complexity and, of course, the pointlessness.
Since there is no cost or complexity involved in my situation (since those rear surround outputs are just going to go unused), based on what I've seen in other forums it seems that it can't hurt to use them to bi-amp, and MIGHT give me some improvement. Unless anyone has had an experience where doing it this way has negatively affected the sound quality, then I'm going to assume that I have nothing to lose, and MAYBE something to gain, by doing it.

I finally gave in to temptation and ordered a servo 15 to replace my still new pw1000.
Bing!!! You'll never look back, great choice.

Since there is no cost or complexity involved in my situation (since those rear surround outputs are just going to go unused), based on what I've seen in other forums it seems that it can't hurt to use them to bi-amp, and MIGHT give me some improvement. Unless anyone has had an experience where doing it this way has negatively affected the sound quality, then I'm going to assume that I have nothing to lose, and MAYBE something to gain, by doing it.
I've got mt 100's bi-amped and I love it. It may be in my head but so be it. As far as the volume goes, I read somewhere that in doubling the power you only get something like a 6 db gain???
I like the idea of all that power being available to really drive the speakers acurately.
I had the extra channels avaiable since i don't want to run 7.1 surround.

I've got mt 100's bi-amped and I love it. It may be in my head but so be it. As far as the volume goes, I read somewhere that in doubling the power you only get something like a 6 db gain???
I like the idea of all that power being available to really drive the speakers acurately.
I had the extra channels avaiable since i don't want to run 7.1 surround.
That is my situation as well. However, I really didn't notice any increase in volume. I would have thought that a 6 db gain would have been noticeable. I wonder if I have something set wrong. Sound does seem to be coming from the entire speaker, and I did go into the receiver and set the rear surrouns for bi-amping, so as far as I know it's working, but I didn't notice any sound increase at all.

Rack04 I used the older version 170v.4 with Monitor 3's v.4/fronts and Atomv.4/surrounds and found the 170 not a good match. The dialogue was too soft during tv/movies.
I upgraded to the cc290v.5, the next up the line from the 190 you are considering, and found it matches perfectly. Dialogue is at a much better volume, more crisp/clear, and carries a much wider signal than the 170 though I expect the 190 to be a bit better. The 290 is a bit larger requiring me to put a shelf on the wall above the tv to accomodate it.

Rack04 I used the older version 170v.4 with Monitor 3's v.4/fronts and Atomv.4/surrounds and found the 170 not a good match. The dialogue was too soft during tv/movies.
I upgraded to the cc290v.5, the next up the line from the 190 you are considering, and found it matches perfectly. Dialogue is at a much better volume, more crisp/clear, and carries a much wider signal than the 170 though I expect the 190 to be a bit better. The 290 is a bit larger requiring me to put a shelf on the wall above the tv to accomodate it.

Thanks for the reply. I think I've found a way to fit the CC-290 into my stand. So with that being said I'm going to go with the CC-290 over the CC-190.

Can someone tell me if the CC 470, etc. are set up for bi wiring like the Studio 20 satellites?
Also, from reading a review on the latest V.4 the author states while a sub would be a good enhancement for these speakers it is not essential for most listening.
I am presently considering an upgrade from a M&K THX system (the 750 LCR) and thought I would just retain the M&K sub which is fairly hefty and musical if not quite high-end.
It seems this might fit in well for the extra kick for movies, etc. Or will I be missing that much by not going with the Paradigm sub (tonal aspects, etc.)?
Sorry to ask so many queries..the nearest dealer to demo is at least an hour away and I wanted to prep myself before the audition. So I am trying to extract from your own experiences. Thanks in advance!

Can someone tell me if the CC 470, etc. are set up for bi wiring like the Studio 20 satellites?
Also, from reading a review on the latest V.4 the author states while a sub would be a good enhancement for these speakers it is not essential for most listening.
I am presently considering an upgrade from a M&K THX system (the 750 LCR) and thought I would just retain the M&K sub which is fairly hefty and musical if not quite high-end.
It seems this might fit in well for the extra kick for movies, etc. Or will I be missing that much by not going with the Paradigm sub (tonal aspects, etc.)?
Sorry to ask so many queries..the nearest dealer to demo is at least an hour away and I wanted to prep myself before the audition. So I am trying to extract from your own experiences. Thanks in advance!

Yes it is. I know this for sure, since I was getting no sound out of my center intially, until I tightened the unused connecters on the center channel, which would only be used for bi-wiring.

I've got mt 100's bi-amped and I love it. It may be in my head but so be it. As far as the volume goes, I read somewhere that in doubling the power you only get something like a 6 db gain???Yeah but you are not really doubling the power.

doubling the power will give a 3db increase and if you bi-amp a 100watt rec
or whatever the wattage maybe you are sending 100 to the bass and 100
to the tweeter and midrange or however the crossover is configured you
are not sending 200watts to anything.

Are the Premier stands (J-23 and J-29) worth the price? They seem very expensive. Would you use the 23 or the 29 for the Studio 20? thanks.

In addition to what JohnnyV and DrPainMD posted scroll back a few pages in this thread. There is plenty of discussion about the v4s and v2s.

Thanks, great info. Is it true then, that the Sig 8's are the current model and available?

Are the Premier stands (J-23 and J-29) worth the price? They seem very expensive. Would you use the 23 or the 29 for the Studio 20? thanks.


You don't need the premier stands. I use Sanus Natural foundations for my studio 20s and my Studio cc-470. They look and work great.

http://www.sanus.com/us/en/products/productCategory/line/speakerFoundations/pcat/natural/

doubling the power will give a 3db increase and if you bi-amp a 100watt rec
or whatever the wattage maybe you are sending 100 to the bass and 100
to the tweeter and midrange or however the crossover is configured you
are not sending 200watts to anything.
But using that same argument, if you started out with 100 watts without bi-amping then that 100 watts needs to drive the bass, the tweeter, and the midrange. By bi-amping you now have 200 watts to do the same thing. I'm not sure what the allocation of power is when you bi-amp, how it is split between the three levels, but it seems to me that no matter how you split if up there is going to be more power going to the speaker, which should result in SOME increase in volume.

The realy nice feature of using the Premeir Stands with the V3 or (I'm guessing) V4 Studio series is that you can connect the Speaker to the stand. The Studio 20 and 40s have threaded holes in the bottom and the premeir stands are made to line up and screw them together. When I was looking at the stands I didn't feel that they were outrageously expensive. I think that they are in the neighborhood of $250 (correct me if I'm wrong). I currently own a pair of speakers that had a similar arrangement, but the stands were like $600. I also believe that the Premier stands can be filled with sand (or shot) to make them more sturdy. So in my opinion (don't we all have them) I think that if you have spent for the 20 or 40 that the stands are worth it.

Just food for thought.

Regards,

Charlie

I'm very disappointed with Paradigm's apparent lack of intelligence regarding the ADP-590s! There is most definitely a Left and Right dipole surround speaker. Although all you have to do is reverse the polarity on the speaker cables, no flipping the cabinet upside down required! :)

I'm very disappointed with Paradigm's apparent lack of intelligence regarding the ADP-590s! There is most definitely a Left and Right dipole surround speaker. Although all you have to do is reverse the polarity on the speaker cables, no flipping the cabinet upside down required! :)

Hey rynberg,

I am a little confused on the whole left/right dipole issue. Does anyone have a good thread addressing the theory. I am not ready to believe that Paradigm over looked something of this magnitude. however I know next to nothing on the topic.

DN

But using that same argument, if you started out with 100 watts without bi-amping then that 100 watts needs to drive the bass, the tweeter, and the midrange. By bi-amping you now have 200 watts to do the same thing. I'm not sure what the allocation of power is when you bi-amp, how it is split between the three levels, but it seems to me that no matter how you split if up there is going to be more power going to the speaker, which should result in SOME increase in volume.The vast majority of the power is used by the woofer. Splitting off the tweeter makes little difference, so that 100w amp is still having to do pretty much the same work. Also, the tweeter will never be able to use the additional 100W unless you want to make it into a flash lamp. Also, you will be dissipating more power/heat into the crossovers with biamping since each leg is independant and not paralleled by the other.

As for any increase in volume, that would have to be limited by speaker tolerance (and listener tolerance) but it will not be greater for the same volume setting since the voltage gains of the amps must match.

Overall, biamping by just paralleling two amps makes little or no difference at all (although it doesn't screw anything up if you use identical amps). Now, if you remove the speaker's crossovers completely and substitute a proper line-level crossover before the amps, you can get some improvements. But that's the realm of DIY these days.

Hey rynberg,

I am a little confused on the whole left/right dipole issue. Does anyone have a good thread addressing the theory. I am not ready to believe that Paradigm over looked something of this magnitude. however I know next to nothing on the topic.

DN

I sent an email to Paradigm tech support on this issue -- hopefully they will answer.

I'm very disappointed with Paradigm's apparent lack of intelligence regarding the ADP-590s! There is most definitely a Left and Right dipole surround speaker. Although all you have to do is reverse the polarity on the speaker cables, no flipping the cabinet upside down required! :)

If one is a right and left, why mess with the polarity. Why not just switch the speakers from the left to the right and vice versa?

If one is a right and left, why mess with the polarity. Why not just switch the speakers from the left to the right and vice versa?


If you do this, (example, take left speaker then mount on right wall, the drivers that were in phase with main on left wall will now be firing to back wall)

:)

I was told that the speakers are all the same.. They just make one type (let's say LEFT SPEAKER).. from there, you have to mount the speakers in such a way to get the phase correct..

I'm very disappointed with Paradigm's apparent lack of intelligence regarding the ADP-590s! There is most definitely a Left and Right dipole surround speaker. Although all you have to do is reverse the polarity on the speaker cables, no flipping the cabinet upside down required! :)


By reversing the polarity, some speakers don't like that.. They sound bad (crossover cause of this).. So.. not sure if the ADP's will sound top notch by doing this..

Just a thought... :)

If the polarity is wrong with respect to other speakers, then the sound will be bad, but reversing the polarity of both speakers in a stereo pair has no effect on the sound. As for the above discussion, it will be interesting to hear the response from Paradigm, because it seems that the non-dipole drivers in the surround should be in phase with the rest of the system, and the dipoles should be mirror imaged, which you can't achieve if they are all built the same.

Any feedback on the "HUGE (39 inch width)" New Monitor Series Center Channel CC-390 V.5? Is it overkill vs the CC-290 V.5? My local dealer does not have any of the V.5 stuff in yet so I'm looking for some feedback.
This would be matched with a set of Monitor 11's V.5

Thanks

... Also, you will be dissipating more power/heat into the crossovers with biamping since each leg is independant and not paralleled by the other.
Can you please explain this further? What do you mean by the statement that "each leg is ... not paralleled by the other"?

As for any increase in volume, that would have to be limited by speaker tolerance (and listener tolerance) but it will not be greater for the same volume setting since the voltage gains of the amps must match.
If I'm using different outputs (rear surrounds) on the same amp, wouldn't this be the case, in which case there should be an increase in volume?

Overall, biamping by just paralleling two amps makes little or no difference at all (although it doesn't screw anything up if you use identical amps).
I'm assuming that my use of different outputs on the same amp would be equivalent to paralleling two amps?

Sorry for all the questions, but I would really like to know whether I'm making the situation better or worse by doing this. Until now everything I had read indicated that there was no disadvantage to bi-amping this way, but after reading your responses I'm certainly having my doubts and wondering whether I should just go back to using the front pair only.

Thanks.

My take on this type of bi-amping is that it is slightly better. Into an equal load the voltage on each amplifier channel would be the same, and there would be no real benefit. However, most amplifiers' voltage limit or clipping point is affected by the current being delivered, with clipping occuring at lower voltages when the current is higher. Since the woofer uses most of the power, the current draw is similar to driving the full 2 or 3 way speaker, so clipping happens at about the same volume level on the woofer amplifier, but this clipping may not affect the tweeter, and so is not as harmful. For the amplifier channel driving the high frequencies, the impedance seen by the amplifier increases in the low frequency range (power dissipated by the crossover), and so the current draw is lower and the voltage clips at a higher level... so the high frequency channel is not as likely to clip (or will do so at a higher volume). If you have a high current amplifier that doubles its output into 4 ohm loads, then there will be little or no benefit to this type of bi-amping. Otherwise, the tweeters are likely better protected from clipping, but you won't get much more usable volume. If I had the extra channels available, I'd do it, but buying a more powerful amplifer would be money better spent than buying a second one to bi-amp.

Can you please explain this further? What do you mean by the statement that "each leg is ... not paralleled by the other"?Sorry. Standard circuitry which I do not have time or patience to explain.


If I'm using different outputs (rear surrounds) on the same amp, wouldn't this be the case, in which case there should be an increase in volume?No because they have the same voltage gain. If you do not know what this means, see above.

I'm assuming that my use of different outputs on the same amp would be equivalent to paralleling two amps?Only if they are connected to the same load.

Sorry for all the questions, but I would really like to know whether I'm making the situation better or worse by doing this. Until now everything I had read indicated that there was no disadvantage to bi-amping this way, but after reading your responses I'm certainly having my doubts and wondering whether I should just go back to using the front pair only.No. There is no disadvantage to doing this. I am simply saying that there is, also, no advantage.

............... but buying a more powerful amplifer would be money better spent than buying a second one to bi-amp.There you go.

I got the S series and did a little tweaking. I bought one of those black rubbermaid shelfs (8 inch wide, I think 2 feet long) from Home Depot and cut it to the size of the Studion 20 bottom. I drilled 2 holes into the shelf material to match the screw holes of the 20's and countsunk the holes so it would be flush. I attached the Studio 20s to the shelf and then drilled the stand to the shelf material. This way I have a very secure connection. I also filled the tubes with sand. Very satisfied and a lot cheaper than the J series.

Added 2 pictures to show what was done.

Additionally, prior to filling the tubes with sand, I used some plastic water tubing to go from the holes at the bottom to the top. The tubing serves as pathway for the speaker wire. I then sealed the bottom hole with some of that foaming material to prevent sand from leaking out. This way I could fill the tubing with sand and still be able to switch out wiring if necessary. I think overall I paid an additional $10 for the additional hardware to really secure the speakers.

Thanks for the replies--can anyone tell me the distance between the holes that drilled into the studio 20's already?

Pantera999

I don't know how it compares to the 290 but it is a nice (although huge) speaker. Lots of enjoyment from it so far.

Pantera999 there is no comparison between the 290 and 390 other than the same brand hehehe.
The 390 is much louder than the 290 but I did not notice the dialogue to be any better, both were very clear and crisp. Low signals were better with the 390...due to using 4- 6 1/2 woofs compared to 2 in the 290 and 2- 4 1/2 mids in the 390 compared to 1 in the 290.
Speaker matching is important in 5.1 systems and the 390 works best with similar speakers.
The size of the 390 is pretty crazy too. One big mutha of a center. Retail is $599 which does not seem at all high for a speaker of its' quality and components.

I'm very disappointed with Paradigm's apparent lack of intelligence regarding the ADP-590s! There is most definitely a Left and Right dipole surround speaker. Although all you have to do is reverse the polarity on the speaker cables, no flipping the cabinet upside down required! :)

Just heard from Paradigm on this issue, this was what they said:

The Studio ADP-590 are not labeled left or right. The rear soundfield will
be equally good regardless of which one is mounted on the left or right
wall.

Thanks for choosing Paradigm speakers.

Sincerely,
Gary Takeda
Paradigm Technical Support


> Hello:
>
> I just purchased the ADP 590s, and do not see any markings on the speakers
> indicating one is "left" and one is "right". The manual says they "may" be
> marked.
>
> So is there supposed to be a left ADP 590 and a right ADP 590? Or are they
> totally interchangeable, without effecting phase.
>

Hey rynberg,

I am a little confused on the whole left/right dipole issue. Does anyone have a good thread addressing the theory. I am not ready to believe that Paradigm over looked something of this magnitude. however I know next to nothing on the topic.

DN

With dipoles, the drivers facing the front of the room should be in phase with the front channels, the rear facing drivers should be out of phase. This obviously requires a mirror-image pair of speakers, with one DEFINITELY a left and one a right. Make sense?

All previous Paradigm dipole speakers have been packaged as a mirror-imaged pair for this reason. There is no way to get proper dipole setup without doing it this way. I have no idea what Paradigm is doing with these new ADP-590s but unless I am missing something, IT IS WRONG.

By reversing the polarity, some speakers don't like that.. They sound bad (crossover cause of this).. So.. not sure if the ADP's will sound top notch by doing this..

Just a thought...

Do speakers have a personality or something? A speaker couldn't care less how it is wired up, the absolute polarity has ZERO effect on any part of the operation of a speaker.

I would be very interested to get a REAL response from Paradigm, the email answer above is a joke.

With dipoles, the drivers facing the front of the room should be in phase with the front channels, the rear facing drivers should be out of phase. This obviously requires a mirror-image pair of speakers, with one DEFINITELY a left and one a right. Make sense?

All previous Paradigm dipole speakers have been packaged as a mirror-imaged pair for this reason. There is no way to get proper dipole setup without doing it this way. I have no idea what Paradigm is doing with these new ADP-590s but unless I am missing something, IT IS WRONG.



Do speakers have a personality or something? A speaker couldn't care less how it is wired up, the absolute polarity has ZERO effect on any part of the operation of a speaker.

I would be very interested to get a REAL response from Paradigm, the email answer above is a joke.

Will you email a more technical question to paradigm on this issue with the 590s? I think you have a better grasp of the issue and could it express it better than I could in an email:

techsup@paradigm.com

would be very interested to get a REAL response from Paradigm, the email answer above is a joke.

I agree. Maybe we could get Kal R. who might have an "in" to contact Paradigm and see if he can get a more specific answer...

With dipoles, the drivers facing the front of the room should be in phase with the front channels, the rear facing drivers should be out of phase. This obviously requires a mirror-image pair of speakers, with one DEFINITELY a left and one a right. Make sense?

All previous Paradigm dipole speakers have been packaged as a mirror-imaged pair for this reason. There is no way to get proper dipole setup without doing it this way. I have no idea what Paradigm is doing with these new ADP-590s but unless I am missing something, IT IS WRONG.





Well they don't come in one box -- so there are no matched pairs. Did the prior models of ADPs from Paradigm come with a pair in one big box?

Roland
what do you think of the sound of the sa-30's when you have them playing with all channels (i have a denon as well and love the option to use all the channels)

do they sound like a normal speaker....can you tell that they are not a cabinet speaker??? I haven't had the chance to listen to many in wall speakers and the ones i have listened to either sound like a cheap intercom speaker like when you were in school or great but cost $$$$
Thanks

What do you think about this? these are coming our this soon and i'm thinking of the ams-lcr's and the ams-150r sm

www dot scowcroftandassociates.com/pdfs/Paradigm%20AMS%20v3%20Preliminary%20Data%20Sheet%20December% 202006.pdf

you can send me a personal message as i would probably see it sooner vs trying to find your post here...
I really like the 30s and 25s definitely not intercom like. really fill out the room

Well they don't come in one box -- so there are no matched pairs. Did the prior models of ADPs from Paradigm come with a pair in one big box?

My ADP-370's came 1 pair to a box, and did have the left and right indicators. My ADP-390's came individually packaged and like the 590's had no left and right indicators at all.

I have noted earlier that I happen to like the build and sound quality of the ADP-370's a bit better than the ADP-390's. I have put two of my 370's back up as left and right surrounds, and left two of the 390's in the rear. I like the sound of this setup a bit better than when I had four 390's all the way around.

Has anyone specifically upgraded from version 3 ADP-470's to the version 4 590 surrounds? Since I am saving up to upgrade to a Studio setup later this summer I'm curious to know what your thoughts are on the build and sound quality of the 470's vs the 590's.

Well... I decided to open up my 590's today...

I took the woofer out, and then the foam, to expose the crossover...

On the crossover, it is broken up into sections...

Sections are:

Feed from terminals
FRONT Tweeters
FRONT MIDS
BACK Tweeters
BACK MIDS
Woofer..

I confirmed that the woofer IS in phase..
I confirmed that the FRONT portion of the drivers is in-phase with woofer..
I confirmed that BACK portion of drivers is OUT of phase with woofer..

BOTH speakers are exactally the same.. The speakers are NOT a mirror image..

SO...

These are for sure dipoles.. and NEED LEFT/RIGHT config..

As stated, make sure the FRONT part of the speaker is facing the front (only way to tell this, is to take woofer out, and follow speaker internal wiring to FRONT section on crossover)..

Hope this helps... :) :)

Well... I decided to open up my 590's today.

Maybe Paradigm figures the average user won't hear a difference. Did you try them as supplied, then again, after changing the connections?

I'm assuming you have all v4s, (and showing no fear using that allen wrench :D ) I have an OT question. What other Paradigm speakers do you have, and are they all using the same tweeter?

Maybe Paradigm figures the average user won't hear a difference. Did you try them as supplied, then again, after changing the connections?

I'm assuming you have all v4s, (and showing no fear using that allen wrench :D ) I have an OT question. What other Paradigm speakers do you have, and are they all using the same tweeter?

I have a mismatch of paradigm reference speakers..

For mains, I use studio 80's, center I use cc-590, sides I use ADP-590, and rears I use Millenia 200's...

For the 80's, I changed the tweeters in them for the new v.4 tweeters.. (taking the tweets out of studio 20's v.4 i got from my friend). Therefore, all front speakers blend almosst perfect, aswell as the ADP's.. The Millenia also blend awesome...

Very happy.. :) :)

I did the try the ADP's "as are" the first night I got them.. Sounded awesome, but on the back of mind, had the phase concerns...
:)

I have a mismatch of paradigm reference speakers.
Thanks, you were the poster who gave me the same idea, that is stealing the tweeters out of a 20v4 set, to switch with my Studio 60v3 tweeters. Then I would upgrade from the CC570 to the CC690 center.

The plan now is to wait a year or so, and pick up a set of used 20v4s, when they start hitting the Audiogon. I'm hoping the 60v3's tweeters will do ok in the v4 20s, enough so that I can use them for "rear backs", to match my ADP470v3s.

That's the plan as of today anyway. :D

I have studio 100's v.3 and a CC-690 v.4 for the center and I have noticed a slight difference in sound in the upper frequency range. The 690 sounds a little more efficient and cleaner. I talked to my dealer today about trading in my 100 v.3 for v.4's and still try and get the full price I paid on the 100's. I just have to add the extra cost in for the v.4's. But, if my dealer is unable to do the upgrade, I would like to know if anyone here has changed the tweeters in the v.3's to v.4? Also, what is the extra cost and do you have to change the crossover? Any comments would be appreciated. Thank you!

Subtle differences between center and L/R are inevitable. I use 3 floorstanders across the front (3 Paradigm Studio 60v3 in one system, 3 B&W 802Ds in the other). You cannot get a better match than that. Yet, with pink noise, there are differences and they are due to the position of the speakers with the L/R closer to the sidewalls and the center, well, in the center.

You are now free to be as obsessive as you want about this (as I am about other things).

I'm still not sure if I really need to upgrade my 100's to the v.4's. With the cc570 it wasn't even a question since I love watching movies with great sounding dialog and the 690 has added more depth to the sound stage! Has anyone here upgraded the v.3 100's to the v.4 100's? If so, have you noticed any major changes in the sound? Is it worth the upgrade?

Hello

Im about 95% ready to pull the trigger on the Yamaha RX-V659 (360$). Just wondering if anyone has or is using or opinions on using Paradigm Monitor v.5 line of speakers with this receiver. CC-290,2x Monitor 9's, 2x ADP-390's, HSU 3.3, Denon 2910, Panny 50 plasma. Just wondering on any overly bright issues with this line up. I also considered a Marantz 8001, Denon 3806 but 1k-2k is a little much ATM with all the HDMI, 7.1 pcm probs going on wich it seems most of the receivers ATM have. (Any other Receiver opinions to get me through for a year or so till things smooth out)Looking to hold off on the big purchase till all this stuff is worked out. I will just direct connect my DVD and DVR HDMI stuff to the Panny for now. Thanx for any Input/Opinions

EDIT= 90% HT use.

I have a Yammy receiver and love the match with my Monitor v.5 setup. These speakers are efficient and don't work the amps as hard as most, especially when crossing over bass to the sub only.

Hi Guys,

A general Paradigm speaker question: Has Paradigm given "any" word when the Signature v2's will be available? Pardon me if this is too far off topic, but I would appreciate everyones opinion, Kal especially. Thanks Guys.

Mike

Subtle differences between center and L/R are inevitable. I use 3 floorstanders across the front (3 Paradigm Studio 60v3 in one system, 3 B&W 802Ds in the other). You cannot get a better match than that. Yet, with pink noise, there are differences and they are due to the position of the speakers with the L/R closer to the sidewalls and the center, well, in the center.

You are now free to be as obsessive as you want about this (as I am about other things).

I agree, using 2 Studio 60v3s and a CC570v3, in an untreated room, I get THREE slightly different pink "noises" when doing level checks. But I don't notice this during regular playback.

Whether I will, if I were to upgrade to a new center, remains to be seen (or heard :)).

I thought the Signature V2 were available since late 2006, in Canada at least.

Hi Guys,

A general Paradigm speaker question: Has Paradigm given "any" word when the Signature v2's will be available? Pardon me if this is too far off topic, but I would appreciate everyones opinion, Kal especially. Thanks Guys.

MikeDon't know any more than you guys do. I was promised a pair of S6s as soon as ...........................

Hey guys, quick question: do you typically tilt your center channel down towards ear level if it's not already at ear level? I have the CC590 specifically and the manual says nothing about tilt. (The tweeters of my fronts are at ear level, 1.5 feet below the CC590 tweeter) Thanks.

I own a pair of Monitor 3 .v4 bookshelves. I am thinking about swapping a pair of A/D/S L990s out of my HT system in favor of the Monitors, but I would like to see the specs on the Monitors' efficiency, etc before I do so. I've misplaced the documentation that came with the speakers.

Am I the only one that thinks the Paradigm/Paradigm Reference web sites are a little confusing as far as how they are laid out? I'm looking for the manual in the archives and I just don't see it. Any help is appreciated.

Hey guys, quick question: do you typically tilt your center channel down towards ear level if it's not already at ear level?

Yep. My screw adjustment didn't give enough tilt, so I blue tacked a couple of Parts Express cones I had lying around, to the back mounts. The Paradigm supplied rubber/brass threaded feet screwed into the bottom of the cones. (Instead of the cone's points).

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=240-715

I thought I would get back to the group with some final thoughts on bi-amping the Paradigm Studio 60s. I had received a number of responses to my earlier post, some being more constructive than others, and some certainly being more correct than others, but after talking to a lot of people, including Gary Takeda at Paradigm and a couple of senior technical people at Pioneer, I think I got some answers.

First, even though I am not changing any crossovers, and I am not using two separate amps, the consensus is that bi-amping does, in Gary's words, "offer a dramatic improvement in clarity, openness and detail with much better bass solidity and definition". While he did state that true biamping does require two separate amplifiers, he told me that even doing it the way I am, with the same amp using separate outputs, will give an enhanced sound. This feeling was confirmed by two different technical people at Pioneer, who indicated that you will hear more detailed highs and lows by bi-amping, even when you are not using separate amps.

In regard to my questions as to whether or not you should hear an increase in volume, the answer seems to be no. Although they tried to give me a layman's explanation about why, the gist of it is that you will not get a volume benefit, only an enhancement in the clarity and detail of the sound you do hear.

I hope this helps anyone else who might be debating this issue.

First, even though I am not changing any crossovers, and I am not using two separate amps, the consensus is that bi-amping does, in Gary's words, "offer a dramatic improvement in clarity, openness and detail with much better bass solidity and definition". While he did state that true biamping does require two separate amplifiers, he told me that even doing it the way I am, with the same amp using separate outputs, will give an enhanced sound. This feeling was confirmed by two different technical people at Pioneer, who indicated that you will hear more detailed highs and lows by bi-amping, even when you are not using separate amps.I do not buy it without a technical explanation or proof. Anyone (even I) can profess something without proof.

BTW, using the same amp but with two separate outputs is NOT biamping or any "way" of biamping; it is bi-wiring. OTOH, if you are using otherwise unused rear channel amps for this, you are biamping since they are separate amps. The wording in your quote is imprecise about this.

I do not buy it without a technical explanation or proof. Anyone (even I) can profess something without proof.

BTW, using the same amp but with two separate outputs is NOT biamping or any "way" of biamping; it is bi-wiring. OTOH, if you are using otherwise unused rear channel amps for this, you are biamping since they are separate amps. The wording in your quote is imprecise about this.
Sorry, I guess I should have been more specific about my previous post. Yes, I am using the unused rear surround outputs; I am not just biwiring a single set of outputs. My receiver is a 7.1 receiver, but I do not have the room in my house to make use of the rear outputs, so my Pioneer has an option to use those for either a "B" set of speakers for for bi-amping the fronts. I am doing the latter.

In terms of your need for proof, I am not technically proficient enough to do that. But Paradigm has nothing to gain by misrepresenting the situation, and based on what I have heard from some high end dealers who have dealt with Gary, he is a very experienced and knowledgeable technician, and I would have no reason to believe that he would not know the correct answer to what for him should be a very straightforward question.

By the way, for anyone who is interested, on the Studio 60s the upper terminals drive just the tweater, and the lower terminals drive the other speakers when you are biamping.

Has anyone replaced the tweeters on a pair of Studio 40'3 V.3 with the Signature tweeters ?First will it fit and second how will the sound differ if I swap out the tweeters ?

Sorry, I guess I should have been more specific about my previous post. Yes, I am using the unused rear surround outputs; I am not just biwiring a single set of outputs. My receiver is a 7.1 receiver, but I do not have the room in my house to make use of the rear outputs, so my Pioneer has an option to use those for either a "B" set of speakers for for bi-amping the fronts. I am doing the latter.So I thought.

In terms of your need for proof, I am not technically proficient enough to do that. But Paradigm has nothing to gain by misrepresenting the situation, and based on what I have heard from some high end dealers who have dealt with Gary, he is a very experienced and knowledgeable technician, and I would have no reason to believe that he would not know the correct answer to what for him should be a very straightforward question.We've discussed this issue before. Just because someone has credentials does not make him right. Paradigm's parent, for example, would like to sell more Anthem amps, so a consistent company policy of supporting bi-amping would promote that goal. Now, rather than accuse them of such venality, I prefer to ask for scientific proof. Most of the technical sites on the Internet do not support the claims made for this type of biamping. (BTW, most do support the use of biamping with a line-level crossover before the amps supplanting the built-in speaker crossover.) So, I am still asking. :)

Added in edit: Also, since it seems (to me) that such biamping as we are discussing will make absolutely no difference (positive or negative), subjective assessments of a change are easily swayed by conscious and/or unconscious expectations.

the one thing that gets me here it is march and their website still lags behind.

Has anyone replaced the tweeters on a pair of Studio 40'3 V.3 with the Signature tweeters ? First will it fit and second how will the sound differ if I swap out the tweeters ?

has anyone that had the 470v3's that purchased the new surrounds
was the difference alot or marginal.

I just bought the new monitor 9 v.5's and the cc390.. holymoly!!! talk about power.. I put my old monitor 7's as rears.. the sound field is so cohesive its insane, and with the new ps1000 I am gonna pick up its gonna rock..

My gear:
Fronts: Monitor 9 v.5
Centre: CC-390
Rears: Monitor 7's v.4
Denon 3805 reciever
Denon 2910 dvd player
Toshiba hd-A1 hd player
Panasonic tc-32lx50 lcd t.v
Monster power reference power conditioner

All:

I am sure this has been beaten to death on this thread, but I'll pose the question anyway. Currently, my gear consists of the following:

Anthem AVM-50
Anthem MCA-20
Anthem MCA-50

My LCR setup is made by System Audio (A small Danish manufacturer of higher-end speakers...beautiful craftsmanship - good quality sound. I have these listed on AudioGon BTW). Anyhow, I want to change out these speakers and I have pretty much narrowed it down to Paradigm - mostly because my dealer happens to be my best friend - and I subsequently purchased the Anthem gear from him. Anyhow, do I do the Sig 8's and Sig center with ADP's or do I go with the Studio line. I heard them side-by-side in a store in another city and I can honestly tell you I felt the 100's were better than the s8's when driven by a lower power amp. - like a middle of the road AV receiver. But when you put more power behind it - like a higher end receiver or separate amp - the sig's then easily outperformed the 100's. At the end of the day, I cannot bring these home to demo in my house - my dealer only stocks the monitor series.

Questions are...what would you do? Budget is a concern but I can stretch to the Sigs. Is my MCA 20 enough to drive the Sigs?

Thanks for the input - David