Anyone have a pic of a cc-570 (black) that I can have? I need to sell mine on ebay and my digital camera is broken :(

Google is your friend:

http://i1.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/94/ea/5fe2_3.JPG

That's not black :) I tried google. and couldn't find a pic just like that one but in black...

That's not black :) I tried google. and couldn't find a pic just like that one but in black...

Found black one, see edited post above.

You the man! :) Thanks, I searched all over google last night. I probably need to learn all the advanced search options on google.

IMHO, they are not pulling a "stunt" with the decision with their surrounds, it's just a decision they feel isn't important with their current speaker.
I call it a "stunt" because of the way they went about it. They kept it quiet until people realized it - usually after they bought the speakers. And now they say it doesn't matter without providing any test results. This is a fundamental change from the way dipoles were always deployed. Maybe it doesn't matter or maybe it's just subtle - but we deserve to know.
(BTW, do YOU any own Paradigms? :confused: ) Yes I own many Paradigms - I never seem to sell anything as I replace components. But I use M&K today.

Ed

But according to your post;
My surrounds are mirror image pairs. It was a friend's recent purchase of the ADP 590's where I became aware of the problem.

You don't own the speakers you have put under the truck.

And was the problem, your friend wondering why they weren't marked and not knowing if there was indeed a left or right for installation purposes? Or was the problem found when you sat down and heard these phase issues while listening to a movie/music, or when you you put in a test disc (at the very least)?

Per Gary Takeda at Paradigm, they're timber matched. Thanks for the feet info.

I asked Gary about my 80's v2 matched with the 570 v3 and he told me the same thing. :)

All I know is the cc-690 sounds awesome w/ my studio 60's v.3. I don't see myself upgrading speakers for a long, long time.

But according to your post;

You don't own the speakers you have put under the truck.
Correct (except I don't consider it "put under the truck"). But I bring the issue up because I have a passion for this hobby and I'm somewhat of a perfectionist or purist or whatever you want to call it. I find the departure from mirror image pairs disturbing. I would assume, for example, that has a bigger effect than different amplifiers or cables (which I don't believe in), yet people argue about and discuss cables all the time.

And was the problem, your friend wondering why they weren't marked and not knowing if there was indeed a left or right for installation purposes? Or was the problem found when you sat down and heard these phase issues while listening to a movie/music, or when you you put in a test disc (at the very least)?They were still in the boxes. I pulled out an ADP and looked for a left/right marking. I own 2 pairs of Paradigm and 1 pair of M&K dipoles, all of which are marked.

Ed

I'm so tired of this Dipole discussion. My set up sounds awesome. My only complaint is that I didn't buy them sooner. Movies rock the house. I do 2-channel for music.

DN

I'm so tired of this Dipole discussion. My set up sounds awesome. My only complaint is that I didn't buy them sooner. Movies rock the house. I do 2-channel for music.

DN
i will agree if you like the sound buy it if not there are plenty of
speaker co.'s to choose from for now paradigm meets mine and
judging from the views of this thread a lot of other people.

I'm so tired of this Dipole discussion. My set up sounds awesome. My only complaint is that I didn't buy them sooner. Movies rock the house. I do 2-channel for music.DN

Well said, I think enough is enough...

just got my new stand in which houses all my home theater gear very nicely moving my center channel (cc-690) up 11 inches with the new height of the stand made an amazing difference in the sound. it actually looks small on this big stand! it's now 31" off the ground. my only problem now is my 50" plasma seems a little small so i'm trying to talk the wife into putting this in the bedroom and putting a 58" in the living room. wish me luck!



http://home.comcast.net/~mystik/close.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~mystik/open.jpg

nice stand and system congratulations.

Looks like my setup. Just got my cc690 yesterday and am getting used to it. Do you like the sound of the 690? Seems like the voices have a little more base than my cc570 and I don't have tone controls to fix that...

my harmony remote 890 took a crap which made the transfer a pain in the but. good for me there customer service is top notch and they sent me a brand new one to replace it. now to sit back and enjoy some blu ray and hd-dvd's :)

Looks like my setup. Just got my cc690 yesterday and am getting used to it. Do you like the sound of the 690? Seems like the voices have a little more base than my cc570 and I don't have tone controls to fix that...

that's because your old center which was my old center wasn't playing so low. i love the way the center sounds the front stage is seamless. it takes a little while getting used to the amount of bass this thing throws. i'm bi-amping it off of my parasound 1206 amplifier so to me this thing sound incredible.

What am I? Chopped liver? Look on their website you can see the color. They even talk about it.

The 690 timber matched to V.3 60's? I don't know about matched, but it should work ok. It will, at the least, be clearer in the mids and smoother in the highs.

i upgraded the tweets in my 100's to v4 tweets cost me 70 dollars. as far as the clearer mids i haven't heard that at all. i like the sounds of the mid in the v3's better. but i liked the sound of the v4 tweets better alot smoother like you said!

just got my new stand in which houses all my home theater gear very nicely moving my center channel (cc-690) up 11 inches with the new height of the stand made an amazing difference in the sound. it actually looks small on this big stand! it's now 31" off the ground. my only problem now is my 50" plasma seems a little small so i'm trying to talk the wife into putting this in the bedroom and putting a 58" in the living room. wish me luck!

Very Nice... Looks very similar to my 100's and 690... sounds AWESOME !!!!
Great Job.....

One quick thought, you might want to move that center Channel forward more to stop the sound from bouncing off the console... Congrats !!!

Very Nice... Looks very similar to my 100's and 690... sounds AWESOME !!!!
Great Job.....

One quick thought, you might want to move that center Channel forward more to stop the sound from bouncing off the console... Congrats !!!

i'll try that i didn't notice a problem with the sound but i'll try it forward so i can compare. take care! oh by the way i see you have an svs sub. those things freakin rock. i have the pc ultra and i absolutely love it. played with a test disk and an rta and hit a 135 db in my living room!

I have the pb12plus/2 so I know what you mean :)

just got my new stand in which houses all my home theater gear very nicely moving my center channel (cc-690) up 11 inches with the new height of the stand made an amazing difference in the sound. it actually looks small on this big stand! it's now 31" off the ground. my only problem now is my 50" plasma seems a little small so i'm trying to talk the wife into putting this in the bedroom and putting a 58" in the living room. wish me luck!


That kiddy scooter is awful close to that 100 :eek: :D
I remember our first A/V cabniet, we had those big plasic kiddy locks on the handles to keep out the rug rats. :)

Back to the cc690, so my prepro has a tone control but it only applies to stereo if I remember correctly. So, if I get a new hdmi 1.3 prepro when they come out I can buy one with tone controls that cover each of the 7.1 speakers separately, correct? I just want to tame the mid bass in the vocals a tad.

I was looking at Klipsch RF- 82 fronts RC-62 centerand Klipsch RS-52 rears. I can get all 5 for about $1300 usd shipped.

Does paradigm have Fronts, center and rears that are top notch in the $1500 range? Better than that Klipsch setup?

thanks in advance.

I was looking at Klipsch RF- 82 fronts RC-62 centerand Klipsch RS-52 rears. I can get all 5 for about $1300 usd shipped.

Does paradigm have Fronts, center and rears that are top notch in the $1500 range? Better than that Klipsch setup?

thanks in advance.

i would strongly suggest building a hometheater system and by doing so i mean piece by piece. i bought my 100's for 1250 from sound city in nj. then i got the center 590 and the adp 470 rears for 1100. then i sold the 570 and bought the 690. actually made 200 off of selling the 570. there are plenty of deals out there you just have to look. if you aren't going to use an external amplifier i would say go with the monitors. you should have no problem putting a surround set up with that line and they are an incredible bang for the buck!

60's v3 (http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1179749797) here is a link to audiogon with a pair of studio 60's v3 and a cc170v3 for 995. that would leave you with 500 for your rears. would be a great starter system!

I just replaced my crushed tweeter of my 40's V.3 with a one from a S8 :) :p :)
The Sig tweeters body is much more solid and fits nice in my 40's v.3
Now to do some listning :D

i wonder if the crossovers are different from the v3 to the s series.

I just replaced my crushed tweeter of my 40's V.3 with a one from a S8 :) :p :)
The Sig tweeters body is much more solid and fits nice in my 40's v.3
Now to do some listning :D

And Im curious what the cost was to upgrade said tweeters...

Which also would seem to me that they are the new .v4 studio tweeters, that are handed down from the sig line... yes/no

the way i understand it the tweeter in the sigs are different than the studios
but the v4 got only a dome change.

I apologize if this question has been asked already...

Anyway, any opinions on the Paradigm in-wall models for surrounds? Looking to get my current bookshelf's off the floor. I have Monitor 9's for the fronts, 370 for the center, and powered by Rotel pre and amp, if that factors in to how well the in-walls perform.

Thanks much.

If I get a chance I will pull the s tweeter out at take a pix of both
I paid $245 shipped for the 2 from a guy on audiogon -they had some pitting on them but cleaned up nice
This seller also has the mid drivers for sale on audiogon

I apologize if this question has been asked already...

Anyway, any opinions on the Paradigm in-wall models for surrounds? Looking to get my current bookshelf's off the floor. I have Monitor 9's for the fronts, 370 for the center, and powered by Rotel pre and amp, if that factors in to how well the in-walls perform.

Thanks much.

I have sa-30 surrounds and sa-25 rears running off my Denon 3805. My fronts are Studio 40 and cc-470 running off a NAD T973. I believe that the tone of the in-walls blend in very nicely.

This photo is before the furniture went in.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/503/medium/Rearinwalls.JPG

Prime seating area is now about 1-2 feet in front of the surrounds.

Here's the front

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/503/medium/Front1.JPG

And Im curious what the cost was to upgrade said tweeters...

Which also would seem to me that they are the new .v4 studio tweeters, that are handed down from the sig line... yes/no

the tweeters or the same as per the pdf on paradigms website!

The S tweeters weigh more also and have a fins on the back of them
Hard to say but I think they sound a bit smoother not as harsh -seams like I have more lows now (guess the highs are not overpowering the lows)
The second pix showes how much beefier the S is

thanks for the pics .

No prob I wonder if the v.4 has the same tweeter or just the dome ?

the pds states a dome change i knew the sigs have a different tweeter and now it
is getting a change not enough info there yet.

[QUOTE=mystikjoe]just got my new stand in which houses all my home theater gear very nicely moving my center channel (cc-690) up 11 inches with the new height of the stand made an amazing difference in the sound. it actually looks small on this big stand! it's now 31" off the ground. my only problem now is my 50" plasma seems a little small so i'm trying to talk the wife into putting this in the bedrdoom and putting a 58" in the living room. wish me luc

very nice looking system! u should try moving ur center channel to the front of ur stand so the sound does not reflect off of it and muddy the sound. u will probably have to move ur L/R speakers up a few inches but i bet this would improve the sound even more. congrats

The S tweeters weigh more also and have a fins on the back of them
Hard to say but I think they sound a bit smoother not as harsh -seams like I have more lows now (guess the highs are not overpowering the lows)
The second pix showes how much beefier the S is
Is it really bigger or is that just a case over the magnet? Just inquiring....

New question perhaps...
Is anyone aware of a safe way to clean the grilles on the Studio series line? I'm afraid dunking them in a bath full of suds will distort the cloth.

B

u can use a high pressure air gun

the vacuum cleaner works after i remove cover from speaker.

I'll try again. Anyone have a pic of the cc-570 in black? I'm putting mine on ebay but my digital camera is broken. Someone posted one earlier in this thread for me but I just checked and the pic is from a current auction already on ebay. thanks!

just right click on the picture and save it to your computer, rename it... and use it for your picture.. or just use the standard color and emphasize that the speaker is black

I just saved that picture to my photobucket so you can use it from there if you want.
Warp

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/home%20theater/CC-570.jpg

Thanks, I just grabbed a generic pic as that's the pic of the auction that just ended.

I just edited my post... check it again... :)

you can use that pic I saved it for ya... :)

Thanks :)

I currently have the Studio 100 V.2 and would enjoy opinions regarding the difference between the V.2 and V.4. Do you think I can upgrade (modify) the V.2 with new tweeters and make a difference? What about the crossover?

the vacuum cleaner works after i remove cover from speaker.

I tried both of the suggested attacks. I think the grilles pick up body oils from being moved in order to vacuum, etc. They're not really dirty but I can see some marks in the right light and I'm picky as hell....B

The S tweeters weigh more also and have a fins on the back of them
Hard to say but I think they sound a bit smoother not as harsh -seams like I have more lows now (guess the highs are not overpowering the lows)
The second pix showes how much beefier the S is

do you think those little fins make the tweeter sound better?

I tried both of the suggested attacks. I think the grilles pick up body oils from being moved in order to vacuum, etc. They're not really dirty but I can see some marks in the right light and I'm picky as hell....B
the only thing the manuel says is a damp soft cloth and no detergents.

Hi Guys,

FYI, I just spoke with a local stereo dealer and was told the Sigs (v2) will be shipping shortly (he called me). He said this was based on conversations with a Paradigm Rep. I guess the catch is that distribution will be limited, so it's not known what product will be readily available. Good news nonetheless! Has anyone heard the same? Thanks

do you think those little fins make the tweeter sound better?
The fins make a word of diffence its night and day
Na just bustin chops
the fins looks like a cover that covers the magnet
Overall I would say the S tweeters are a bit smoother than my V.3
I needed to replace one dome and I found thees on audiogn so I gave it a shot
now I will put my V.3 tweeters on Ebay or audiogon but one dome is dented

the v4 tweeters definitley are smoother than the v3. i just don't believe that the sig and the v4 are any different. that little cover is just that a cover. for the $70 that the tweeter upgrade cost it was worth every penny.

the v4 tweeters definitley are smoother than the v3. i just don't believe that the sig and the v4 are any different. that little cover is just that a cover. for the $70 that the tweeter upgrade cost it was worth every penny.
Incorrect.

The Sig tweeter is certainly different from the v.4 Studio tweeter.

The Signature has much more powerful magnets (neodymium on the Sigs vs. ferrite on the Studios). That "cover" you keep talking about is both a heat-sink and acts as part of the rear damping chamber. Also, since the Sigs are crossed a bit lower than the Studios, they may have hardier voice coils to handle the additional power.

The G-PAL dome from the Sig is what made it into the the v.4 tweeter. The rest of the v.4 tweeter is unchanged from v.3.

Cheers,

S.

I'm thinking about a whole new setup, I am currently just using the speakers on my 42" panny plasma and am sort of a newbie. I was thinking about a whole cinema 90 w/ all 4 small speakers set to suround the opting for the 110 instead of the regular center, then buying another 110 and using them for l/R. I was looking into the Athena ws-60 as a center. For a receiver I was thinking Yamaha HTR-5860. Any good? Overkill? Nonsense?

I'm thinking about a whole new setup, I am currently just using the speakers on my 42" panny plasma and am sort of a newbie. I was thinking about a whole cinema 90 w/ all 4 small speakers set to suround the opting for the 110 instead of the regular center, then buying another 110 and using them for l/R. I was looking into the Athena ws-60 as a center. For a receiver I was thinking Yamaha HTR-5860. Any good? Overkill? Nonsense?

No such thing as overkill... and that system would work just fine, just make sure you try out different types of speakers and you like what you are listening to...

You shouldn't buy a different brand of Center Channel.. all 3 front speakers should be the same brand and model...

Incorrect.

The Sig tweeter is certainly different from the v.4 Studio tweeter.

The Signature has much more powerful magnets (neodymium on the Sigs vs. ferrite on the Studios). That "cover" you keep talking about is both a heat-sink and acts as part of the rear damping chamber. Also, since the Sigs are crossed a bit lower than the Studios, they may have hardier voice coils to handle the additional power.

The G-PAL dome from the Sig is what made it into the the v.4 tweeter. The rest of the v.4 tweeter is unchanged from v.3.

Cheers,

S.

thanks for clarifying that, now that you spell it out, I remember that was what they did... just change the dome...

I really want to hear the Sigs, but I don't have a dealer around me that has them.
Maybe I'll wait until the Sig .v2's come out and have a drive to Chicago from milwaukee...

Anyone know of a dealer in Northern Chicago that has the Sig's... :)

thanks

Warp

thanks for clarifying that, now that you spell it out, I remember that was what they did... just change the dome...

I really want to hear the Sigs, but I don't have a dealer around me that has them.
Maybe I'll wait until the Sig .v2's come out and have a drive to Chicago from milwaukee...

Anyone know of a dealer in Northern Chicago that has the Sig's... :)

thanks

Warp
You're welcome.

I hope you do get the chance to listen to the Sig v.1. It really is a fine speaker. I used to own Studio 40 v.3s, but for the last eight months I've had Signature 4s. The Studios were great speakers in their own right. But they never gave me the level of enjoyment I get listening to music through the Signatures. The Sigs are a much cleaner, clearer-sounding speaker. Better imaging, too.

You might be able to get a deal on a pair of v.1s if you find them. I'm sure the the Signature v.2s will be winners, but it's uncertain when they'll ship. I've seen estimates of anywhere from this month to end of summer.

Cheers,

S.

I have an living room with a wide open entrance half wall and in the rear, would the dipoles of the cinema 90 not be well suited for a room with this much open space or should i stick to the cinema 70 for the directional sound?

Warpdrv, I looked at your setup and thought it was the ish but what do you use for surrounds?

Warpdrv, I looked at your setup and thought it was the ish but what do you use for surrounds?

I have a strange room layout as you can see, corner placement presents some problems, but it has come together quite well... with the only places I could put the surrounds are in opposing corners, I was thinking about ADP's but they would not work out in my configuration, so I ended up going with Studio 20's on wall brackets. I started out with them on higher speaker stands, and now I have them on the wall, but still need to run the wires into the walls. Just waiting for my buddy to help me finish running the wires. So the wires are hanging there... yuk.. but I'll get there.. Very difficult to run wires to my left surround, as I have hard wood floors, and hard wood ceiling below that room.

Just finished paining and adding a few acoustic panels to that wall...
http://lh4.google.com/image/Warpdrv/RgPZCU3bFoI/AAAAAAAAAa4/7wuupQmkppo/Acoustic%20Panels%20002.jpg
http://lh3.google.com/image/Warpdrv/RgPZEE3bFsI/AAAAAAAAAbY/aEmgrWirJpU/Acoustic%20Panels%20005.jpg

You're welcome.

I hope you do get the chance to listen to the Sig v.1. It really is a fine speaker. I used to own Studio 40 v.3s, but for the last eight months I've had Signature 4s. The Studios were great speakers in their own right. But they never gave me the level of enjoyment I get listening to music through the Signatures. The Sigs are a much cleaner, clearer-sounding speaker. Better imaging, too.

You might be able to get a deal on a pair of v.1s if you find them. I'm sure the the Signature v.2s will be winners, but it's uncertain when they'll ship. I've seen estimates of anywhere from this month to end of summer.

Cheers,

S.

Thanks Spoil... I Just bought this house, and got the Studio setup, and I love it, Sounds incredible, but I wanted to check out the Sig's someday, and maybe upgrade down the line... I was thinking and looking forward someday to hearing the S6's. But for now, I have other projects that will suck up my cash, gotta build a deck and get a hot tub for reasons I need not say... :)

But Im still dying to hear those sigs, although the prices were higher then I had the ability to spend at the time... :)

I dont want to go huge on my HT system but I dont want a danky system really either. Thats why i got away from those crappy panasonic and sony HTIB's from bestbuy and circuit city and those places.

Is a cinema 70, 90, or 110 good enough or is it REALLY worth it to step up to the plate and lay down some real cash for a Reference or Studio speaker. I dont have a huge budget but if it is worth it to go big I can. I am new to this kinda stuff so i dont know what to listen for quite yet or what I really like because i have nothing to compare to as far as higher end sound goes.

I rarely would use this system for music and it would probably be used mostly for HDTV and X-Box 360 with movie watching on the lower end of my usage . Maybe 50% TV 30% gaming and 20% movies.

I dont want to go huge on my HT system but I dont want a danky system really either. Thats why i got away from those crappy panasonic and sony HTIB's from bestbuy and circuit city and those places.

Is a cinema 70, 90, or 110 good enough or is it REALLY worth it to step up to the plate and lay down some real cash for a Reference or Studio speaker. I dont have a huge budget but if it is worth it to go big I can. I am new to this kinda stuff so i dont know what to listen for quite yet or what I really like because i have nothing to compare to as far as higher end sound goes.

I rarely would use this system for music and it would probably be used mostly for HDTV and X-Box 360 with movie watching on the lower end of my usage . Maybe 50% TV 30% gaming and 20% movies.
if you have compared the speakers and like what you hear chances the ones you
choose will be with you longer than the rest of your gear i listened and preferred
the studios and they will be with me a long time.

Does anyone know if it is recommended that the wall behind a cc-590 center speaker be absorptive or reflective being that they are rear ported?
Thanks for your help.

Sorry, thats a cc-570 center

Yes, you can put a panel on the wall behind the center to help the sound. Buy 3 of the GIK panels and put one each on the wall behind the center and two mains.

Hi guys,

I am thinking of changing my current speaker setup from a 5.1 to a 7.1. I currently have a Polk RM7600 system with a PSW650 sub (2) 10's woofers. I want to transfer the front sat speaker to the very rear. I have been hearing great reviews with Paradigm speakers like the Cinema 330. Has anyone listened to these speakers? I have a small apartment and really don't want a tower if I can avoid it. I was thinking of adding (3) Cinema 330 L/C/R to the front line up. And with my dual 10's sub I should be happy. But for $299.00 each up to $900.00 would it be worth it? Not to mention adding there speakers stand would bring me over that price? I just wanted to have a medium size front not large. Tell me what you think. I can not find a place that carries the 330's so I can listen too. I live in L.A, CALIF
Thanks

if you have compared the speakers and like what you hear chances the ones you
choose will be with you longer than the rest of your gear i listened and preferred
the studios and they will be with me a long time.

I second that with the addition of "are". I may upgrade in the future expect to have my Studio 60's in 10-15-20 years.

DN

New Paradigm owner here, very happy with my new purchase.
mains Titan Monitor
Center CC-290
Rears ADP-390
Sub PS1000

All hooked up to a new Pioneer Elite 82 receiver. I was concerned that with the PS1000 not giving enough bass. But I am pretty happy with it thus far. Can't wait to get some new HD-DVD titles for some further testing.

I dont want to go huge on my HT system but I dont want a danky system really either. Is a cinema 70, 90, or 110 good enough or is it REALLY worth it to step up to the plate and lay down some real cash for a Reference or Studio speaker.

Consider the monitor series. I haven't heard the Cinema series, but I think you will pay more for a given sound quality because of the design of the boxes. The Monitor series are a great value, and the upper end of version 5 are so efficient that you don't need a very powerful receiver. I own Monitor series version 4, and I will one day move up to a higher series. I do think the studio series sound better, but you are starting to enter the territory of diminishing returns where you pay significantly more for small gains in sound quality. I'm willing to do that in the future, but I could also live with what I have forever and be happy.

Hi guys,

I am thinking of changing my current speaker setup from a 5.1 to a 7.1. I currently have a Polk RM7600 system with a PSW650 sub (2) 10's woofers. I want to transfer the front sat speaker to the very rear. I have been hearing great reviews with Paradigm speakers like the Cinema 330. Has anyone listened to these speakers? I have a small apartment and really don't want a tower if I can avoid it. I was thinking of adding (3) Cinema 330 L/C/R to the front line up. And with my dual 10's sub I should be happy. But for $299.00 each up to $900.00 would it be worth it? Not to mention adding there speakers stand would bring me over that price? I just wanted to have a medium size front not large. Tell me what you think. I can not find a place that carries the 330's so I can listen too. I live in L.A, CALIF
Thanks

Bump!!

I don't think I would buy a speaker site un-seen, you really should go out and sample some other products if you can't listen to the Cinema's... Subs are greatly reviewed and well talked about, but not sure I would do the speaker unseen/unheard.

Check out some other products in your area... its hard but its worth it in the end, as you will get what your after in the end...

Good luck

I don't think I would buy a speaker site un-seen, you really should go out and sample some other products if you can't listen to the Cinema's... Subs are greatly reviewed and well talked about, but not sure I would do the speaker unseen/unheard.

Check out some other products in your area... its hard but its worth it in the end, as you will get what your after in the end...

Good luck


I am off to a dealer that sells Paradigm, Def Tech and I will take them for a test run.

Thanks,

P.S. I am drooling over your humble setup....

Hey is it just me BUT this is my fealings
When I listen to my 40's V.3.5 (the .5 is I have S tweeters in them ) say at 65 DB on the spl the sound is week lack of detail and lows But when ya twist the volume (I am using a denon 3805 ) to 85 on the spl they sound GREAT

Seems to me an obvious case of speakers begging for a larger amount of power...
Which also begs the question if your willing to buy a seperate amp for those speakers.

Im not crapping on your denon, In my comparisons with my receiver and switching over to my Rotel 200x5, I noticed a huge difference... Woke them up in a hurry... really makes a huge difference...

I did'nt took the time to read all 135 pages, so this might have been seen somewhere.
I just want to give my opinions on those Monitor. As i'm not a big audiophile, i'll do it in my own words.
I own a pair of Monitor 7 v4 with a cc370. I like them but they sound a bit flat.
I bought a pair of Monitor 9 v5 and put them beside my 7s to compare.
Wow, The monitor 9 v5 sound more clear and louder at same volume level. You can ear all the midrange sounds and the voices more clearly, more crispy than the 7 v4.
But they have less bass as you ear the bass well but feel less the vibrations in you body. Maybe because the Monitor 7 v4 have a air hole on the front and the 9 v5 have 2 in the back.
I forgot to say that the grill where better on the monitor 7v4. On the 9s it is magnets, and when you clip the top ones, the grill go over a plastic thing on top of cabinet that make the bottom magnets pop off. So the grill is not well fit at the bottom and might result in a vibration of the grill on cabinet when listening at higher volume and bass.
BTW, my old Kenwook HT receiver is way below the quality of those speakers.
For that i'm please with the monitor 9 sound.
The kit i've bought came with monitor Atoms for rear and cc390, That is HUGE, i don't know where i'm gonna put that.

Now i need you help to choose a new, under 1000 cdn, ht receiver to go with my new setup (monitor 9v5, cc390, atoms)
someone told me good about the Yamaha rxv-659. What's the best for Paradigm, Denon, Yamaha, Harmon Kardon?
I'll like it with a hdmi port if possible at those prices.
thank you

I really like Harmon Kardon, and they rate their power output conservatively, but they are really overpriced in Canada relative to the US. Denon are of a similar quality in my mind, and the price differential isn't as large. I currently own a Yamaha and am happy with it. For this type of equipment, I'd go on line and watch the prices in the big box stores on a Yamaha and a Denon that is in the $1000 range when not on sale, and wait. You don't have to buy now, so wait for a good sale. A friend bought a Denon that was $999 on sale for $699, and they also had a coupon for an extra $100 off anything over $500. The next week it was back to $999 and the coupon offer was gone.

I would add Marantz to the list as well. There are other good receivers (NAD, ROTEL) but they may be out of your price range.

Recently purchased a new CC-470 V.3 for $399 in Black Ash which I think is a great deal (retails about $650). It was their last one. But I have some questions:

1) The owner at the local stereo shop (who sold me the CC-470) recommended I go w/ the Studio 60s to fit my needs. But can I mix/match the fronts w/ a different Paradigm series as long as the drivers are the same 7" size as my center channel or will it not sound so good if I don't stick w/ the Studio Series fronts? He offered to sell the Studio 60s new for $1399/pair (retails about $1600). Is that a good price or should it be discounted more?

2) When I opened the box last night, there were two +/- inputs in the back of the CC-470 (which I'm assuming is for both drivers), but of course my receiver has only one +/- output for the center channel. The manual mentioned something about bi-wiring, but it wasn't clear to me. Does that mean I have to split the 12 gauge wire I bought or is there an accessory that I can use to power both drivers at the same time from my receiver?

Please excuse my "noob" questions. TIA.

2) There should be a golden bracket (x2) that attaches the the 2 +'s and the 2 -'s on the CC-470.
all you need to do is hookup +/- from the receiver to one set of +/- on the 470 (either one, doesn't matter).
The little bracket sends it over to the other set completing the crossover.

As long as the 470 wasn't a demo and the dealer threw the brackets out, you should be in business.

1) what youre talking about is timbre matching. most paradigms are very close within the series. ie) References V2/3/4 Monitor V3/4/5. Try to stay within the series if you can.
I know a few people who have the 60's. They're quite nice. That price sounds close (slightly high). Especially if it's a V3 and he's clearing out old stock. If you DO go in and take a listen, make sure he knocks off a couple more bucks.
I see them for 1129-995 on audiogon today.

Leef DaLucky - Thanks for the quick reply. Yeah, that's what I need, a golden bracket (wasn't sure how to describe it). I thought I saw one mounted on the back of the Studio 60 floor model that they demo'ed for me. Unfortunately, mine didn't come w/ a golden bracket...it only had the stand legs/screw accessories in the box and it was brand new/sealed. I guess I'll have to buy that separately or ask the owner if he can just give me one.

Okay, I'll try to stick w/ the Studio Series because of timbre matching. Yeah, I'm really tempted to buy the Studio 60s V3 as soon as this weekend (new, not the floor model). I was just asking in case I don't buy new fronts any time soon and the Studio 60s V3 are all gone. If that were the case, I'll stay w/in the Studio Series and just buy a newer version.

Thanks again for the advice.

Leef DaLucky - Thanks for the quick reply. Yeah, that's what I need, a golden bracket (wasn't sure how to describe it). I thought I saw one mounted on the back of the Studio 60 floor model that they demo'ed for me. Unfortunately, mine didn't come w/ a golden bracket...it only had the stand legs/screw accessories in the box and it was brand new/sealed. I guess I'll have to buy that separately or ask the owner if he can just give me one.

Okay, I'll try to stick w/ the Studio Series because of timbre matching. Yeah, I'm really tempted to buy the Studio 60s V3 as soon as this weekend (new, not the floor model). I was just asking in case I don't buy new fronts any time soon and the Studio 60s V3 are all gone. If that were the case, I'll stay w/in the Studio Series and just buy a newer version.

Thanks again for the advice.

If worse came to worse, you could always make that bracket out of speaker wire and some connectors like these http://www.ramelectronics.net/assets/images/viablue/spade.jpg

I can't believe it didn't come with, it should have...

Just got done listening to the Studio 60, and 100's :eek:

I will end up with the 60's I am sure with a CC-470 or should I go 570? I have the rear speakers already. My question is my friend thinks I should buy a Sunfire True Subwoofer Super Junior (22 to 100 Hz frequency response (+0, -3 dB). It"s small and it is very powerful and tight. Just wondering if I stray off the Paradigm on the sub will it matter?

Thanks

cc570 and if you can afford it jump to the new cc690 :)

If worse came to worse, you could always make that bracket out of speaker wire and some connectors like these http://www.ramelectronics.net/assets/images/viablue/spade.jpg

I can't believe it didn't come with, it should have...

I called the stereo shop and talked to one of their sales assoc. He's checking on why mine didn't come w/ a gold bracket and I don't wanna have to pay for a bi-wire cable which I'm told are easily over $100. If they don't have an extra gold bracket to give me, I may improvise and use speaker wire/gold prong connectors just like the ones in the link you provided...not a bad idea. Thanks.

Just got done listening to the Studio 60, and 100's :eek:

I will end up with the 60's I am sure with a CC-470 or should I go 570? I have the rear speakers already. My question is my friend thinks I should buy a Sunfire True Subwoofer Super Junior (22 to 100 Hz frequency response (+0, -3 dB). It"s small and it is very powerful and tight. Just wondering if I stray off the Paradigm on the sub will it matter? Thanks


Nope won't matter, any good sub should blend well with your system, Check out other subs too..

B-stock svs offers a good bang for your buck... How much is that Sunfire..?

https://svsound.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=12

or HSU also has some great subs as well...

I did'nt took the time to read all 135 pages, so this might have been seen somewhere.
I just want to give my opinions on those Monitor. As i'm not a big audiophile, i'll do it in my own words.
I own a pair of Monitor 7 v4 with a cc370. I like them but they sound a bit flat.
I bought a pair of Monitor 9 v5 and put them beside my 7s to compare.
Wow, The monitor 9 v5 sound more clear and louder at same volume level. You can ear all the midrange sounds and the voices more clearly, more crispy than the 7 v4.
But they have less bass as you ear the bass well but feel less the vibrations in you body. Maybe because the Monitor 7 v4 have a air hole on the front and the 9 v5 have 2 in the back.
I forgot to say that the grill where better on the monitor 7v4. On the 9s it is magnets, and when you clip the top ones, the grill go over a plastic thing on top of cabinet that make the bottom magnets pop off. So the grill is not well fit at the bottom and might result in a vibration of the grill on cabinet when listening at higher volume and bass.
BTW, my old Kenwook HT receiver is way below the quality of those speakers.
For that i'm please with the monitor 9 sound.
The kit i've bought came with monitor Atoms for rear and cc390, That is HUGE, i don't know where i'm gonna put that.

Now i need you help to choose a new, under 1000 cdn, ht receiver to go with my new setup (monitor 9v5, cc390, atoms)
someone told me good about the Yamaha rxv-659. What's the best for Paradigm, Denon, Yamaha, Harmon Kardon?
I'll like it with a hdmi port if possible at those prices.
thank you


I got a my Yamaha RX-V2700 to my door for $1050.00 without a warranty, but I live like 15 mintures away from Yamaha in Buena Park, CA . If the receiver goes out take it there for repairs. If the receiver goes over $600.00 in repairs it will be the last yamaha I buy. But so far very very pleased with plenty of power, and 3-in- & 1 -out- HDMI.... GOT IT HERE (http://www.ibuydigital.com/product/?39940&hit_id=10115428&Campaign_id=30&CFID=22935252&CFTOKEN=24114085)

Where can I find a online dealer that sells Studio 60's the store I tested them at wanted $1600 + TAX :(
I am sure that is hi right for these speakers? Any good place in L.A, CA area I can find them?

Thanks

I called the stereo shop and talked to one of their sales assoc. He's checking on why mine didn't come w/ a gold bracket and I don't wanna have to pay for a bi-wire cable which I'm told are easily over $100. If they don't have an extra gold bracket to give me, I may improvise and use speaker wire/gold prong connectors just like the ones in the link you provided...not a bad idea. Thanks.You don't need the bracket, many people get rid of them from the get go and use heavy gauge speaker wire instead. Years ago when I was moving, somehow I lost one of the brackets on my 7se's, I literaly just stuck a piece of monster cable into the terminal hole where you would put a banana plug and bingo, it was fixed, know way you could tell a difference between the 2 speakers.....Just my 2 cents..... ;)

Where can I find a online dealer that sells Studio 60's the store I tested them at wanted $1600 + TAX :(
I am sure that is hi right for these speakers? Any good place in L.A, CA area I can find them?

Thanks

Saw new model on audiogon.... http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1180711491

maybe he would seperate them... :)

Also search for paradigm on audiogon, they have plenty of them, most .v3 but hey.. just tryin to help a brotha out... :)

Where can I find a online dealer that sells Studio 60's the store I tested them at wanted $1600 + TAX :(
I am sure that is hi right for these speakers? Any good place in L.A, CA area I can find them?

Thanks

Your not going to find a online dealer selling Paradigm, try Shellys Stereo in Woodland Hills. I have purchased everything from Studio 20's to Sig 8's from them....Real good shop. Web site is down but here is address.

http://www.shelleysstereo.com/?gclid=CPzJ7-LGr4sCFTQkGAodLFt82w

What is the differents between the version Studio 60.v3 and the Studio 60.v4?? Other then the year. The reason I ask is I found a USED pair of 60.v3 for 1K is that a good price or should I pay another $600 for the newer model??

There are a few cosmetic differences, like the Bronze driver chassis's & different colored feet.
As well as a dome on the tweeter, which they call G-Pal gold anodized pure alluminum dome.

There isn't a huge difference in the sound from .v3 to .v4. Some may argue this point, but I only noticed a slight difference..... A/B ing side to side...

Also take note, that you can change out the tweeters for a moderate price... $70.

check back to this thread... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10160272&&#post10160272

I would say save the money...

What is a good price for the following Paradigm speakers:

Studio 60 V4 x 2
Studio 20 Rears x 2
CC590 Center x 1
10"- 650 watt Sub x 1

Is this a nice 5.1 setup? Would you change anything?

Please list best price you can get each speaker or pair individually.

thanks!

well what exactly is the sub theyre selling you?
and Hell ya, she looks pretty good on paper.

Question on the v4 tweeter upgrade. Is that $70 per tweeter, or $70 for both? Thanks!

also is that just for the dome or the whole tweeter ?

what do the s8v2's sound like?

Can someone explain Paradigm Lows spec to me
The 40 say Low Feq Ext of 36 Hz (DIN)
Feq Resp +2DB from 62 Hz - Khz
The 20 say Low Feq Ext of 36 Hz (din)
Feq Resp +2 from 54Hz-22Khs
Does this mean that the 20s get down lower than the 40s ?

Can someone explain Paradigm Lows spec to me
The 40 say Low Feq Ext of 36 Hz (DIN)
Feq Resp +2DB from 62 Hz - Khz
The 20 say Low Feq Ext of 36 Hz (din)
Feq Resp +2 from 54Hz-22Khs
Does this mean that the 20s get down lower than the 40s ?


I wouldn't count on that...... either way, are you planning on these for a HT environment? An even if you weren't they won't reach low enough in my opinion for 2 channel listening, which means you will probably couple them with a Sub...

As long as they are good and clean below 50-60 hz, would be more then good enough for me, as your Rolling off your speakers around 80hz to your sub...

Coupled with a sub, either will sound great, I personally would be after a 40 for my mains before a 20, but there are people that use 20's.... I wouldn't though.

JMHO

Warp

anybody know of any paradigm internet dealers? need to get a paradigm center channel to match my paradigm 7se towers..

Thanks Warp I was just curious after locking at specs on line .I own 40s and I am one of the odd balls that rum them full range .I also use a SVS SB12 + sub but I am not sure if its placement or room but the sub will not blend well and the system sounds much better set to Large
Slacajun I do NOT think there are any internet paradigm dealers -If you are looking for a used speaker try audiogon -I have had great experience with the gon over ebay .

anybody know of any paradigm internet dealers? need to get a paradigm center channel to match my paradigm 7se towers..

From Paradigm's website:

Paradigm® and Paradigm® Reference are only sold through Authorized Dealers. These are the finest in the market and have the expertise and facilities to demonstrate the superior performance and Unparalleled value of our products!

Paradigm® and Paradigm® Reference products are not available mail-order!

Warning: Any product purchased from an unauthorized dealer does not carry a factory warranty!

Slacajon aren't those paradigm 7se towers older models... Im thinking you would be hard pressed to find new... Ebay or audiogon as antman already suggested... :)

antman... where do you cross those 40's over to your sub... seems to me that you would be losing alot of that LFE channel as your 40's can't hit 20hz, and will start losing output below 40hz with its natural rolloff.

You should be crossing those over at 80hz and running your sub below that... At least in HT practice... Just a thought... what do you think...?

yeah they are old...but still sound so good..so see no reason to get rid of them :)

Well since they are set to large they do not get crosed over
I set my denon to LFE and Main so 80 down goes to the sub
I do much more music listning than HT so IF I watch something that I know is more Boomy I will set them to small and crossover @80
But small and crossover @80 does not sound the best for music in my room or my ears
I may try and run 2 subs one day and set 40s to small all the time

yeah they are old...but still sound so good..so see no reason to get rid of them :)

Wasn't getting at they didn't sound good, just harder to find matching things.... :)



Well since they are set to large they do not get crosed over
I set my denon to LFE and Main so 80 down goes to the sub
I do much more music listning than HT so IF I watch something that I know is more Boomy I will set them to small and crossover @80
But small and crossover @80 does not sound the best for music in my room or my ears
I may try and run 2 subs one day and set 40s to small all the time

You got it going on buddy... :)

You got it going on buddy... :)

LOL how is that ??

I called the stereo shop and talked to one of their sales assoc. He's checking on why mine didn't come w/ a gold bracket and I don't wanna have to pay for a bi-wire cable which I'm told are easily over $100. If they don't have an extra gold bracket to give me, I may improvise and use speaker wire/gold prong connectors just like the ones in the link you provided...not a bad idea. Thanks.

Just DIY your own wire jumpers, you will need 8- 5/16 spade connectors and no more than 1-1/2' of copper zip cord/speaker wire of the quality/gauge of your choosing. No biggie.

I use these:

http://www.musicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?sku=AAQ1056G

LOL how is that ??

You know what your doing, you don't any of my senseless babble... :)

picked up a pair of monitor 9 v5 and a cc-290 center. So excited about my purchase. I take the center out of the box and it is damaged like crazy. A corner of the wood is all caved in :(... What wierd is the box is in perfect condition. So sad, hopefully i won't have a problem exchangin it tomorrow. The monitor 9's sound great though.

I called the stereo shop and talked to one of their sales assoc. He's checking on why mine didn't come w/ a gold bracket and I don't wanna have to pay for a bi-wire cable which I'm told are easily over $100. If they don't have an extra gold bracket to give me, I may improvise and use speaker wire/gold prong connectors just like the ones in the link you provided...not a bad idea. Thanks.

You paid for the bracket when you bought the speakers, so there should be no question that the dealer will order a replacement and that Paradigm will send one free of charge. If these were trade-ins or even demos, that may be up for negotiation and accounted for in the price, but an out of the box product must be complete and working. Accepting these errors just means that the quality control will slide. I would ask the dealer to replace the bracket for free, and if you don't get a favourable response, call Paradigm and complain. I could be persuaded to accept it as is if I were given another 10% off (which would more than pay for an extra set of cables to bi-wire, unless you buy really expensive cable).

You paid for the bracket when you bought the speakers, so there should be no question that the dealer will order a replacement and that Paradigm will send one free of charge. If these were trade-ins or even demos, that may be up for negotiation and accounted for in the price, but an out of the box product must be complete and working. Accepting these errors just means that the quality control will slide. I would ask the dealer to replace the bracket for free, and if you don't get a favourable response, call Paradigm and complain. I could be persuaded to accept it as is if I were given another 10% off (which would more than pay for an extra set of cables to bi-wire, unless you buy really expensive cable).

I feel a little embarassed, but what the heck, I'll admit it. I found the gold brackets over the weekend. There's actually two of them and I found them at the very bottom of the box, underneath the foam-type packaging. Not sure if they fell off the back of the center channel or if they fell out of the small accessory box, but in any case I have them.

Thank you and others w/ suggestions on helping me out.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the CC-470 V3 sounds great! It replaced a Bose VCS-10 that I've had for almost 5 years. I regret not upgrading it sooner. Watched HD Discovery's Planet Earth "Shallow Seas" to test it out and what a difference it made! Can't wait for it to be finally broken in. BTW, anyone know how many hours is the normal break-in period?

Read this

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction

:)

I have been trying to shop for a new set of speakers and have been very interested in the new monitor series. But my local dealer has only seen the new Atoms. Nothing else from the V.5 series seems to be available yet. Is this true all around or is this just a local, or specific dealer, problem. I'm really suspicious since I havn't found any "real" reviews of anything but the V.5 Atoms, just reprints of the press release. Am I missing some good links somewhere? Please direct me if possible.

By the way, I listened to the V.5 Atoms, the V.4 Mini Monitors, and the V.4 Studio 20s. Each was better than the last, which of course makes me want to spend more than I want to spend. But if Studio technology has flowed into the Monitor line, I can't wait to hear the V.5 Monitors and the Titans. This is screwing me up because I'd like to buy sooner rather than later, but really want to check out the new line.

Hi everyone! This'll be my first post on the forums.

I have a quick question about the versions of the PW-2100 and PW-2200. Looking on the Paradigm website, I've found conflicting information regarding the power output of the PW-2100/2200 amp. The product page specifies 500W RMS/1500W Peak, but the Recommended Systems page quotes 400W RMS/1500W Peak. Considering the recent revamp of some of the other Paradigm lines, I'm assuming this conflict comes from a similar version change in the PW line. Does anyone know for certain that this is the case, and if so, what version number goes with each rating?

In my home theater I don't think the 100W RMS will make a big difference... I'm mostly interested in truth in advertising and knowing what I'm getting ;) Thanks!

- Stephen

Read this

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction

:)

Thanks for the link. I skimmed the whole article for now and will read it more in depth after work. But I found this quote interesting: "Four year's worth of "breaking in" hadn't affected the system to any significant degree."

[QUOTE=BrinHB]I have been trying to shop for a new set of speakers and have been very interested in the new monitor series. But my local dealer has only seen the new Atoms. Nothing else from the V.5 series seems to be available yet. Is this true all around or is this just a local, or specific dealer, problem. I'm really suspicious since I havn't found any "real" reviews of anything but the V.5 Atoms, just reprints of the press release. Am I missing some good links somewhere? Please direct me if possible.

Yea I'm pretty sure I saw the V.5 Minis and Titans as well as the Atoms at my local dealer.. I oly heard the atoms though, the place was closing and I didnt have time to get to the others.

Anyone know about the new c-190? The guy at my dealer said the 190 would be underpowered for my room, which is 20x15 w/ open back wall and 16 ft ceiling w/ a viewing distance at 11 ft.

I was planning on using the V.5 Minis as fronts and Atoms as surrounds (no dipoles because of all the open space w/ open back wall). He said I should match the c-290 w/ it because the 190 would struggle w/ the big room and high ceilings and also because of the large sound from the Mini's.

I know they're new and alot of people may not have heard them but let me know what you think.

I was planning on using the V.5 Minis as fronts and Atoms as surrounds (no dipoles because of all the open space w/ open back wall). He said I should match the c-290 w/ it because the 190 would struggle w/ the big room and high ceilings and also because of the large sound from the Mini's.

I set up a 190 in a friends room about the size of yours. I don't hear it struggle and he cranks it. Sure the 290 might serve you a bit better and if you can afford it, get it,
but I think it's suspicious for him to say things like...and also because of the large sound from the Mini's.

See if you can try the 190 and if it does "struggle" :rolleyes:, then see if he will upgrade you...

I have been trying to shop for a new set of speakers and have been very interested in the new monitor series. But my local dealer has only seen the new Atoms. Nothing else from the V.5 series seems to be available yet. Is this true all around or is this just a local, or specific dealer, problem.

My dealer has had V.5 Monitors since Nov. It would seem your dealer might be having problems.


But if Studio technology has flowed into the Monitor line,

I have not heard this. Maybe try to find another dealer....

I Agree, your dealer should have gotten those products, unless they are last on the list, My dealer couldn't get new Studio 100's in very fast, and he stated he might not have been first in line to receive products faster then a really large store.

Or maybe he just didn't put them on the list to have at his store, as they aren't what he wants to be selling the most of...

I am so stoked...I just ordered my Sig C5 v.2 today. I can't wait to get it.

My dealer has had V.5 Monitors since Nov. It would seem your dealer might be having problems.

I have not heard this. Maybe try to find another dealer....
Agreed. It's nearly impossible to find any v.4 series anymore in the Performance/Monitor line. The new monitor line, v.5, seems to be readily available. I'm surprised the dealer can't just order them and have them shipped out of Buffalo like the others. I suspect that dealer might have quite a bit of the v.4 series in stock? If that's the case, I'd opt for the v.4 Monitor 5 over the v.5 Titan Monitor. But, that's just my take on it. I did the same move a few weeks back and saved about $80 in going with the Monitor 5 over the new Titan Monitor.

Would I be able to mix Cinema speakers with Monito speakers up front? I'm thinking of pairing Cinema 330's for L/R (for wall mounting purposes) and a monitor CC-190 for a center. Also I would most likely be pairing them w/ a Yamaha HTR-5860.

are monitor7 v5 good for 800$ canadian a pair?

i want good speakers for music but i don't want to pay insane price.

thanks.

Would I be able to mix Cinema speakers with Monito speakers up front? I'm thinking of pairing Cinema 330's for L/R (for wall mounting purposes) and a monitor CC-190 for a center. Also I would most likely be pairing them w/ a Yamaha HTR-5860.

Most would agree that you should "Timber match" your front sound stage forsure. I deal to do all 5-7 speakers but Highly recommended for the front 3. = Same line of speakers!!! GL

Would I be able to mix Cinema speakers with Monito speakers up front? I'm thinking of pairing Cinema 330's for L/R (for wall mounting purposes) and a monitor CC-190 for a center. Also I would most likely be pairing them w/ a Yamaha HTR-5860.

I was going to go the Cinema 330's for L/C/R for the front 3. Here is a good review on them. REVIEW LINK (http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/1337/paradigm-cinema-330-home-theater-speaker-system.html)

Purchased my first set of Paradigm Speakers over the past weekend and was wondering the best speaker wire to use is I'm so confused about the guage 12 or 14 ozygen free; some say not required. What's the best route to go? I don't want to spend more then is necessary, but don't want to go cheap either? the speaker configuration will be about 3 feet from the receiver on each side. Also, what's the best or most economical means for connections. Thank you

Bosbury,

Just get some good 12 gauge wire and consider it done. I think 50 feet of the stuff on a spool at Home Depot runs about $20. HD also sells banana plugs with two screws on them to hold the wire secure. Price: $6.99 per 2-pack. For about $50, you could build some very capable wires with banana plugs. Or, you could forego the banana plugs if you wanted to save a few bucks.

Purchased my first set of Paradigm Speakers over the past weekend and was wondering the best speaker wire to use is I'm so confused about the guage 12 or 14 ozygen free; some say not required. What's the best route to go? I don't want to spend more then is necessary, but don't want to go cheap either? the speaker configuration will be about 3 feet from the receiver on each side. Also, what's the best or most economical means for connections. Thank you


For a 3 ft run.... Go to the hardware store and get some 14ga lamp chord...
all the rest is just snake oil... It is electricity passing through wire... Nothing magic going on here... "Oxygen free" Whatever :confused: Quoted from site "Oddly enough, it isn't the freedom of oxygen in copper wire that makes any difference. The process of removing oxygen also removes the impurity of iron and it's this impurity that can cause the resistance to be slightly higher."

Even Radio shack has some good quality connectors you can get for a reasonable price.. Unless you just want something pretty, but it will offer you no advantage.
Scroll down a bit to the chart on this site http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
You'll see you could even use 18ga for a run that short... :)
This idea has been discussed to no end here... search the site...

WJE,
Outstanding I'll go to the depot today. Thanks

i picked up a pair of monitor 9 v5 for 850$ cdn here in montreal this weekend. I was quoted 650$ for monitor 7 v5. 800 for the monitor 7's is sugested retail price, shop around u will get a better price. Also picked up a Paradigm cc-290 center for 400$ cdn. :).


are monitor7 v5 good for 800$ canadian a pair?

i want good speakers for music but i don't want to pay insane price.

thanks.

i picked up a pair of monitor 9 v5 for 850$ cdn here in montreal this weekend. I was quoted 650$ for monitor 7 v5. 800 for the monitor 7's is sugested retail price, shop around u will get a better price. Also picked up a Paradigm cc-290 center for 400$ cdn. :).

what store in montreal?

I'm thinking about getting a paradigm 5.1 bookshelf setup for my HT. My budget is about $1100, and I picked out a pair of Atom Monitors, CC 190, pair of ADP 190's, and PDR-8. Any comments or suggestions? 95% HT, HD DVD and Blu-Ray (LPCM), room size is about 13 X 11, distance from fronts is 8 ft. Denon 887 receiver. THANKS!

hey need opinion..found a cinema 110 and cinema 220 center speaker..would either work ok with 7semkIII towerspeakers?

I wold try to find a CC370 or even a 350. I am sure there are some on Ebay.
Or try and go for the 190 or 290 maybe....?

I haven't heard any of the Cinema stuff, but I would try the the new Monitor line or go used.
That does not mean I think the Cinemas are a bad speaker, just don't think they would be the best match...IMHO

BTW the 7MK3's were the first Paradigm speaker I had and loved every minute with them. Liked them better than my V.3 Studio 60's even!

I wold try to find a CC370 or even a 350. I am sure there are some on Ebay.
Or try and go for the 190 290 maybe.

I haven't heard any of the Cinema stuff, but I would try the the new Monitor line or go used.
That does not mean I think the Cinemas are a bad speaker, just don't think they would be the best match.

BTW the 7MK3's were the first Paradigm speaker I had and loved every minute with them. Liked them better than my V.3 Studio 60's even!
thanks for input..yeah 7mk3s are old..but still sound good-so see no reason to replace them--just bought new receiver..will be getting subwoofer..so needed new center too

what store in montreal?

that's exactly what i wanted to ask

Dumoulin.ca sells them for 800$ a pair.

Radio St-hubert, on st-hubert st. Yes dumoulin sells them for 800$. When i tired to bargain with Dumoulin they wouldn't budge on there price... I went to Radio St-Hubert asked best price if i paid cash and i was offered 650$. ASked how much for the Monitor 9's he offered them to me at 850. I jumped on the deal, Got monitor 9's, cc-290 (400$)and a Pioneer elite 80tsx (700$).

MOst places will give u a good deal when paying cash, Dumoulin and stereo plus didn't want to though, so i looked else were.. I have made alot of purchase at Radio St-Hubert and each time i have walked out with a killer Deal, But most of the time u gotta be will to pay cash and buy when he gives u the price as it might not be the same second time around...When i asked him best price if i paid cash, he asked if i was willing to buy them that day i said yes he made me the price... Anyways Check them out they are on St-Hubert , Between Bellchase and Beaubien..





that's exactly what i wanted to ask

Dumoulin.ca sells them for 800$ a pair.

Anyone know about the new c-190? The guy at my dealer said the 190 would be underpowered for my room, which is 20x15 w/ open back wall and 16 ft ceiling w/ a viewing distance at 11 ft.

I was planning on using the V.5 Minis as fronts and Atoms as surrounds (no dipoles because of all the open space w/ open back wall). He said I should match the c-290 w/ it because the 190 would struggle w/ the big room and high ceilings and also because of the large sound from the Mini's.

I know they're new and alot of people may not have heard them but let me know what you think.

To my frineds out there, indeed there are V5's available! I live in the NYC metro area and my dealer just delivered them to me Mini-monitors (Ash) Fronts, CC290 (Ash) Center and Atoms(white) surrounds.

Frankly, I wished the Minis and the CC290 came in White then I could loose them on the shelves and make the spouse happy happy!!

As for sound, the Minis blow away the V3 Titans by a landslide. My jury is out on the CC290. the Atoms however kick ass for their size! I am using Audioquest Type 4 all around being fed via the Yamaha RS-V2700 and a SNELL Basis 300 Sub.

Strange situation occurred with the CC290.

When using the YPAO circuits to cailbrate the speakers, levels, distance, phase, delay and WIRING.... I kept on getting a "out-of- phase" error the the CC290(center). I ran the test about 10 x and the same error came up!.. I checked my polarity on the jacks-all ok. I pulled back the shrink wrap anf the wiring colors matched the sheathing color--all ok.

So I did the only thing I could do, I reversed the plugs on the Receiver- Black wire to Red output and vice versa. I ran the tests again.... however this time it passed!!!!! I reran the tests 5 more times and each time is passed!!!!

I reset the plugs in their proper matching jacks and removed the NEW CC290 and inserted a TITAN V3 in its place and then reran the tests.... this time every passed frist time through! Reran it 3 more times and passed every time. I swapped the plugs again as before... This time it failed--Properly!!! I reran it several more times and each time it correctly disgnosed miswiring the center channel.

I even took one of my Rogers Ls5/3a's and threw IT into the fray reran the tests and each time it measured correct wiring polarity until I reversed the wires on the receiver.

So it would seem that I have a mis wired BRAND NEW CC290 right out of the crate!!!!

Any comments from the troops? :rolleyes:

From what I have read from others giving advise on the subject of polarity issues with the YPAO or any onboard mic... is to just not worry about it...

Just check the wires and walk away, see how it sounds....

From what I have read from others giving advise on the subject of polarity issues with the YPAO or any onboard mic... is to just not worry about it...

Just switch the wires and walk away, see how it sounds....

1st, can you direct me to the links regarding this issue?

2nd, Something is definitely not correct and there has to be reason for it. Would you let your doctor provide you with the same type of response :eek: and expect you to be happy? ;)

The CC290 has 2 woofers, A mid & tweeter. It may be one of them is wired out of phase internally. As the unit is brand new, I will let the manufacturer worry about it.

The issue here is a wiring question. The 2700 checks the polarity of the signal relative to the electrical signal phase- Signal on= cone moves out, Signal off= cone in...

My next call will be to Yamaha TECH.

In the meantime, I will use one of my on-hand Titan V3 as a center until this is resolved. When I find out the final result, I will post here and in the Yamaha 2700 Thread.

Still looking for other opinions!!!

1st, can you direct me to the links regarding this issue?

2nd, Something is definitely not correct and there has to be reason for it. Would you let your doctor provide you with the same type of response :eek: and expect you to be happy? ;)

The CC290 has 2 woofers, A mid & tweeter. It may be one of them is wired out of phase internally. As the unit is brand new, I will let the manufacturer worry about it.

The issue here is a wiring question. The 2700 checks the polarity of the signal relative to the electrical signal phase- Signal on= cone moves out, Signal off= cone in...

My next call will be to Yamaha TECH.

In the meantime, I will use one of my on-hand Titan V3 as a center until this is resolved. When I find out the final result, I will post here and in the Yamaha 2700 Thread.

Still looking for other opinions!!!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9137486&&#post9137486

search for "out of phase" got : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=3427986

The CC290 has 2 woofers, A mid & tweeter. It may be one of them is wired out of phase internally. As the unit is brand new, I will let the manufacturer worry about it.

The issue here is a wiring question. The 2700 checks the polarity of the signal relative to the electrical signal phase- Signal on= cone moves out, Signal off= cone in...

<snip>

Still looking for other opinions!!!Here's mine. Almost every auto setup I have used is fooled at times with the phase assessment. The reason, imho, is that individual drivers in many speaker systems are wired out of electrical phase for acoustic reasons and, depending on the spectrum of the test signal, the dispersion of the drivers, the directionality of the microphone and the position of the microphone, you can get a spurious reading.

So, when the auto setup says a speaker is out of phase, I check all the wiring and go with what I see. Usually, a tap on the mic and the remeasurement is OK.

Here's mine. Almost every auto setup I have used is fooled at times with the phase assessment. The reason, imho, is that individual drivers in many speaker systems are wired out of electrical phase for acoustic reasons and, depending on the spectrum of the test signal, the dispersion of the drivers, the directionality of the microphone and the position of the microphone, you can get a spurious reading.

So, when the auto setup says a speaker is out of phase, I check all the wiring and go with what I see. Usually, a tap on the mic and the remeasurement is OK.

DR. Kal Rubinson speaks....

Good assessment, and I must say, your beside manner is far better then mine...

:)

Here's mine. Almost every auto setup I have used is fooled at times with the phase assessment. The reason, imho, is that individual drivers in many speaker systems are wired out of electrical phase for acoustic reasons and, depending on the spectrum of the test signal, the dispersion of the drivers, the directionality of the microphone and the position of the microphone, you can get a spurious reading.

So, when the auto setup says a speaker is out of phase, I check all the wiring and go with what I see. Usually, a tap on the mic and the remeasurement is OK.

Dr! I bow at your posting! A long time Stereophile reader and follower am I!

I will try your recommendation. In the meantime, I will allow the Paradigm techies have a go at this unit. You know those Canadians! Coming from you, I'm confident the speaker in question is operating correctly. In fact, I rigged up the ol' 1.5 volt battery test and watched the woofer cones move OUT(correct polarity) when touching the terminals of the battery, and then compared the action on another speaker with the same results.

I have a call into Yamaha TECh to see what they say...

thanks for taking the time to respond!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9137486&&#post9137486

search for "out of phase" got : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=3427986

The last link you provided is not being recognized by my search engine..

Also, thanks for the links! I found several that I must read through. (80 pages ouch!!!)

Just use the search tool at the top of the site, and do a search for "out of phase"
With or without quotes, will get you many results... :)

Search tool works great on this site...

You can even, at the top of each individual thread search that particular thread...
I wasn't aware of that one at first...

The last link you provided is not being recognized by my search engine..

Also, thanks for the links! I found several that I must read through. (80 pages ouch!!!)

I searched on AVS in the yamaha 1700/2700 thread

and what about "those Canadians" ?

Radio St-hubert, on st-hubert st. Yes dumoulin sells them for 800$. When i tired to bargain with Dumoulin they wouldn't budge on there price... I went to Radio St-Hubert asked best price if i paid cash and i was offered 650$. ASked how much for the Monitor 9's he offered them to me at 850. I jumped on the deal, Got monitor 9's, cc-290 (400$)and a Pioneer elite 80tsx (700$).

MOst places will give u a good deal when paying cash, Dumoulin and stereo plus didn't want to though, so i looked else were.. I have made alot of purchase at Radio St-Hubert and each time i have walked out with a killer Deal, But most of the time u gotta be will to pay cash and buy when he gives u the price as it might not be the same second time around...When i asked him best price if i paid cash, he asked if i was willing to buy them that day i said yes he made me the price... Anyways Check them out they are on St-Hubert , Between Bellchase and Beaubien..

thanks for the info, too bad they're not an online store.

Just checking in here, I picked up Phantom v4's about a month ago and have been very satisfied with them for music and movies. I just paired them up to a Yamaha HTR-5960 and it really brought them to life. I found the 'brightness' of the Yamaha can really liven up the Paradigms. Pop in the T2 Ultimate Edition DVD and these will rattle the walls with bass in my 10x14 room, I almost don't need my sub!

thanks for the info, too bad they're not an online store.
yeah they don't sell online :(. I am sure u should be able to find the same type of deal locally.. JUst gotta shop around.. :)

I heard the Studio 20v4's again today. I really did like them but noticed some mid bass boom during certain songs. Anyone else notice this?

Were they running with a sub...? I assume they weren't.... I heard them without a sub, and I liked them, but I would step up to 40's for mains if at all possible... If your mixing them with a 5.1 you'll be crossing them over at 80hz to the sub anyways... or is this for just 2 channel..?

What were the driving them with?

I heard them without a sub. They were driven by Anthem gear. I then had the pleasure of hearing the S2's, and I wish I hadn't, I thought they were that good.

I ony use my 20's for rear's, and went with 100's so I didn't experience any of that booming..
I really wouldn't go any smaller then 40's for mains... but thats just my opinion...

I am dying to hear the sig's... That S6 would be right up my alley...

I searched on AVS in the yamaha 1700/2700 thread

and what about "those Canadians" ?

My comments mean, the Canadians are "no bullsh-t" about the level and quality of the components they produce! They take manufacturing errors seriously! I have the highest regard for the Rules/Standards the Canadian manufacturers have to follow before their product can be released to the public.

In my own 2 channel room, I have a Bryston BP-20pro, a pair of Bryston 7b-SST, AND a Bryston 4 way speaker selector box, mated to Thiel CS-3.6 speakers and also vintage Rogers LS5/3a gems! Plus another Bryston 4b-SSt & 12b Preamp(vintage) combo....

Thus I believe they won't take lightly to one of their products awry!

HOWEVER!... Heres the latest update on the Paradigm CC290 Phase issue and YPAO Miswire. I took the speaker back to my trusting dealer, he closed the shop for lunch and we proceeded to to test my speaker right next to his CC290.. checking phase via changing plug polarity- first his-- correct polarity , reversed polarity.... did the same thing to my unit... after 15mins, we both came to the same conclusion that my speaker was operating correctly. No need to ship it back to Paradigm(those Canadians ;). Glad to know that my wiring was correct and in proper polarity as well as direction and, the Receivers' internal wiring is correct

What I promised to do is place the speaker on the shelf with the tweeter on the bottom and mid on the top and see what results after the YPAO calibration using this setup. Hopefully we can fool the YPAO circuitry!

More to come :rolleyes:

Glad to hear you got it sorted out eh

My comments mean, the Canadians are "no bullsh-t" about the level and quality of the components they produce! They take manufacturing errors seriously! I have the highest regard for the Rules/Standards the Canadian manufacturers have to follow before their product can be released to the public.

In my own 2 channel room, I have a Bryston BP-20pro, a pair of Bryston 7b-SST, AND a Bryston 4 way speaker selector box, mated to Thiel CS-3.6 speakers and also vintage Rogers LS5/3a gems! Plus another Bryston 4b-SSt & 12b Preamp(vintage) combo....

Thus I believe they won't take lightly to one of their products awry!

HOWEVER!... Heres the latest update on the Paradigm CC290 Phase issue and YPAO Miswire. I took the speaker back to my trusting dealer, he closed the shop for lunch and we proceeded to to test my speaker right next to his CC290.. checking phase via changing plug polarity- first his-- correct polarity , reversed polarity.... did the same thing to my unit... after 15mins, we both came to the same conclusion that my speaker was operating correctly. No need to ship it back to Paradigm(those Canadians ;). Glad to know that my wiring was correct and in proper polarity as well as direction and, the Receivers' internal wiring is correct

What I promised to do is place the speaker on the shelf with the tweeter on the bottom and mid on the top and see what results after the YPAO calibration using this setup. Hopefully we can fool the YPAO circuitry!

More to come :rolleyes:

Here is the 2nd part to this: I placed the CC290 upside down with the tweeter on the bottom. The YPAO was run again (3x) and there was no significant change in the results. The YPAO continues to report "Mis-wiring/ out of phase" for the center channel.

So that myth is now put to rest. JUST BE SURE OF YOUR WIRING POLARITY AND WIRE DIRECTION BEFORE HAND and USE A MULTIMETER TO CHECK CONTINUITY.

Heres another thought to ponder; While I'm certain this applies to most AUTO CAL. software, what do you "folks with credentials" do in the following condition: The instruction manual states to place the MIC in the seating position in order to run the tests. However, the seating position is a couch (with its rear against a wall) in my case. So do I place the MIC on the top of the couch back with the rear wall acting as a reflective boundary or do I attempt to duplicate my 41"ear height? I have used a camera tripod thus far with the "success" I have already written about.

Maybe someone has a better idea, or am I just over engineering this setup issue?

My next steps will be to acquire the AVIA disk and use that in conjunction with the DVE & Sound & Vision Disk via my Ratshak meter.

Looking for ideas folks! How about it? :o

the test disc will tell you if you have a speaker out of phase another disc
digital video essentials has similar test.

My YPAO said the same thing for my CC-290. "IMO" YPAO is not worth any use what so ever. The only thing the YPAO did somewhat correctly was the distance to my speakers within 1' but, otherwise nothing close at all. Just my opinion!

i'm interested in some paradigms

i have a pair of 7semk3 towers...which are are no longer made...which current paradigm center channel would be best timbre match for these?

i have a pair of 7semk3 towers...which are are no longer made...which current paradigm center channel would be best timbre match for these?
or any center channel speaker-doesnt have to be paradigm

The Avia disk has a pink noise phase test where it switches back and forth between individual speakers, and if they are out of phase, you can hear it. Perhaps your centre is located in a position where there is a big reflection before the sound reaches the microphone, or diffraction from the TV or a shelf. If you can get your hands on a test disk and it passes your audible phase test, then that would satisfy me.

Heres another thought to ponder; [/U]While I'm certain this applies to most AUTO CAL. software, what do you "folks with credentials" do in the following condition: The instruction manual states to place the MIC in the seating position in order to run the tests. However, the seating position is a couch (with its rear against a wall) in my case. So do I place the MIC on the top of the couch back with the rear wall acting as a reflective boundary or do I attempt to duplicate my 41"ear height? I have used a camera tripod thus far with the "success" I have already written about.

The couch material might be either reflective or absorptive if it's that close to the microphone, changing the auto-calibration results. I would suggest putting the mic on a camera tripod so that it's at about the same height and position as your ears. I don't have any credentials other than having done it that way :)

For those of you that have purchased their Paradigm speakers at authorized retailers. Were they willing to deal or did you pay the MSRP? Also what would you think about buying open box items? The dealer is in the middle of a move so they are trying to sell off their floor models at discounted prices.

i got about 20% off MSRP from an authorized dealer, so yes they are willing to deal.. As for buying open box/floor models i wouldn't mind, esp if it meant a nice discount. Just inspect them well before u buy them, same warranty applys as if they were new.
:)

For those of you that have purchased their Paradigm speakers at authorized retailers. Were they willing to deal or did you pay the MSRP? Also what would you think about buying open box items? The dealer is in the middle of a move so they are trying to sell off their floor models at discounted prices.

For those of you that have purchased their Paradigm speakers at authorized retailers. Were they willing to deal or did you pay the MSRP? Also what would you think about buying open box items? The dealer is in the middle of a move so they are trying to sell off their floor models at discounted prices.
as long as they give you full warranty why not.

Well I just got back from my dealer and he made an offer I couldn't refuse. I got a pair of Monitor 9's v.5 for $200 off MSRP, a pair of Atom Monitor's for $50 off MSRP, and CC-290 for $80 off MSRP. I think I got a good deal.

I am looking at new Paradigms... my retailer is giving me 25-35% off retail depending on the system I am choosing

Note: I am in Canada

you basicly got the same thing i did. Monitor 9v5 and cc290. I will be picking up the atoms next week or so... so far i am loving it....Sounds great. Even my dad who has some higher end gear (Dynaudio speakers, aragon amp/pre) enjoyed my speakers. Now i just need to find a sub to go well with these speakers...

Well I just got back from my dealer and he made an offer I couldn't refuse. I got a pair of Monitor 9's v.5 for $200 off MSRP, a pair of Atom Monitor's for $50 off MSRP, and CC-290 for $80 off MSRP. I think I got a good deal.

you basicly got the same thing i did. Monitor 9v5 and cc290. I will be picking up the atoms next week or so... so far i am loving it....Sounds great. Even my dad who has some higher end gear (Dynaudio speakers, aragon amp/pre) enjoyed my speakers. Now i just need to find a sub to go well with these speakers...

I love them too. I'm looking for a sub myself.

Here is the 2nd part to this: I placed the CC290 upside down with the tweeter on the bottom. The YPAO was run again (3x) and there was no significant change in the results. The YPAO continues to report "Mis-wiring/ out of phase" for the center channel. Of course. Anyone who expects different does not understand what is happening.

Heres another thought to ponder; While I'm certain this applies to most AUTO CAL. software, what do you "folks with credentials" do in the following condition: The instruction manual states to place the MIC in the seating position in order to run the tests. However, the seating position is a couch (with its rear against a wall) in my case. So do I place the MIC on the top of the couch back with the rear wall acting as a reflective boundary or do I attempt to duplicate my 41"ear height? I have used a camera tripod thus far with the "success" I have already written about. Again. Use the tripod or other device to put the microphone as close to where your ears would be, not at room boundary unless you lean on the wall.

or any center channel speaker-doesnt have to be paradigmAs long as it is timbre-matched to the Paradigms.

As long as it is timbre-matched to the Paradigms.
so how can i find another brand that is timbre matched? since paradigms are hard to find down here

I first bought my Paradigm Phantoms (the original bookshelf design with the 8" woofers) as a college student on a budget. Value for money, they were phenomenal speakers. A few years ago, when I went shopping for speakers for the audiophile system upstairs, I auditioned dozens of speakers, not intending to buy Paradigm, but (value for money again), the Studio 60's beat everything else in the price range. And the Phantoms? Still going strong 15 years later, as the fronts in my HT rig:

amp: Yamaha RX-V1000
front: 2xPhantom
center: CC-370 v.2
rear: 2xTitan v.2 (nice, but directional. Would like to replace them with ADP-370s one day)
TV: Sony KDS-60A2000

Go Paradigm...

Well I just got back from my dealer and he made an offer I couldn't refuse. I got a pair of Monitor 9's v.5 for $200 off MSRP, a pair of Atom Monitor's for $50 off MSRP, and CC-290 for $80 off MSRP. I think I got a good deal.

AS one who is involved in an Audio dealership in a rather circuitous way. 20% off any Paradigm is a very good deal assuming they are the latest model of the products your seeking ie. V5 fof the monitor series, or v4 for reference series and v2 or 3 for the Signiture series.

I would strongly urge you buy floor models as they have already been broken in and the dealer is ready to move into the next series. Sometimes for a few $$$ more, they will throw in the cabling as it may not be a good match for the replacement speakers!

[QUOTE=Kal Rubinson]Of course. Anyone who expects different does not understand what is happening.

Again. Use the tripod or other device to put the microphone as close to where your ears would be, not at room boundary unless you lean on the wall.[/QUOTE

Dear Dr., I wrote that with tongue in cheek... I value your responses and trust in your experience. I originally used my Bogen Tripod to mount the YPAO MIC when the I ran the initial program setup and Ergo the phase issues. The tripod was placed in the a spot as close as the couch would allow and the MIC raised to about 41".

The phase issue will have to stay. I have 3 Paradigm speakers (2 Mini's & a CC290) with a total of 4@ 6.5" woofers on a common 56" long though narrow shelf. These are firing 10ft across to the couch/wall where the sub is firing back at them. I just never expected this type of canceling effect. If if weren't for the YPAO and its built in PEQ circuits I would have been ignorant of the issue and just attempt to set equal levels for all 5 channels.

I may consider changing the direction the sub is firing to something less than direct. I'll try perpendicular and have it fire down the long portion of the room.

Thanks for picking on ME! Imagine...! I had my own 15 minutes of FAME! :o

Ginovino -

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this in regards to your center channel phase issue, but it is common for speaker designers to internally wire the midrange driver out of phase with the tweeter to acheive a better blend at the crossover point between the two drivers. The yammy auto set-up is probably picking up on this.

- Tim

so how can i find another brand that is timbre matched? since paradigms are hard to find down herePersonal experience only. That's why the usual suggestion is to choose from the same brand/line.

[QUOTE=Kal Rubinson]Of course. Anyone who expects different does not understand what is happening.

Again. Use the tripod or other device to put the microphone as close to where your ears would be, not at room boundary unless you lean on the wall.[/QUOTE

Dear Dr., I wrote that with tongue in cheek... I value your responses and trust in your experience. I originally used my Bogen Tripod to mount the YPAO MIC when the I ran the initial program setup and Ergo the phase issues. The tripod was placed in the a spot as close as the couch would allow and the MIC raised to about 41".

The phase issue will have to stay. I have 3 Paradigm speakers (2 Mini's & a CC290) with a total of 4@ 6.5" woofers on a common 56" long though narrow shelf. These are firing 10ft across to the couch/wall where the sub is firing back at them. I just never expected this type of canceling effect. If if weren't for the YPAO and its built in PEQ circuits I would have been ignorant of the issue and just attempt to set equal levels for all 5 channels.

I may consider changing the direction the sub is firing to something less than direct. I'll try perpendicular and have it fire down the long portion of the room.

Thanks for picking on ME! Imagine...! I had my own 15 minutes of FAME! :o
Sorry. I guess I didn't see the humor. Most autosetup systems can be fooled by phase issues. I just take it as a warning to check phase physically and move on.

Ginovino -

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this in regards to your center channel phase issue, but it is common for speaker designers to internally wire the midrange driver out of phase with the tweeter to acheive a better blend at the crossover point between the two drivers. The yammy auto set-up is probably picking up on this.

- Tim

I am awaiting Monday A.M. so that I can call Paradigm Tech support and have them address the issue at hand. My personal Audio dealer doesn't use ANY HT audio tweaking other than matching levels and speaker families/brands (except subs).

This long standing dealer, was unaware of the "possibility" this and other Paradigm models with multiple woofers used for Center channel "may" be wired or operate out of phase at some point in their frequency range. Were this abnormality prevalent, the Audio press would have latched on to it and addressed it. My inclination however is to trust the speaker designer and relegate myself to accept a ROOM vagary and work around it in subtle ways within the WAF.

To be sure, I am already breaking the rule of my original intent with this "HT"set-up. I promised myself this is "just a TV with better speakers for family viewing". Aside from the time used for wiring the system properly and cosmetically acceptable I have spent entirely too much time on this issue. Which, in all likelihood NO-ONE BUT ME WILL SONICALLY KNOW THE DIFFERENCE! This New system replaced a 10 yr old Sony 53" RPTV which now occupies a place in my listening room(UGH!) screwing up the sonics in THAT ROOM!

I will continue with the path I started and provide updates to my fellow posters!

Keep the ideas coming please!

ps to the DR.>>>>My 20yr old Rogers LS5/3a make some pretty good sounding HT speakers!

I am awaiting Monday A.M. so that I can call Paradigm Tech support and have them address the issue at hand

hey if ya get chance, let me know their phone #..couldnt find on their site..sent them 2 emails over a week old asking for center channel speaker recommendation--havent heard nothing from them yet

I am awaiting Monday A.M. so that I can call Paradigm Tech support and have them address the issue at hand

hey if ya get chance, let me know their phone #..couldnt find on their site..sent them 2 emails over a week old asking for center channel speaker recommendation--havent heard nothing from them yet

I have the NAME of a Technical support person at Paradigm. While the website may be sans contact tel #. I will spend the money for a long distance call to them and get them off the stump. When I get it, I will post it here for all to see!!!! How dare they hide behind Email.....They should be ashamed of themselves. Corporate arrogance is more like it!

I have the NAME of a Technical support person at Paradigm. While the website may be sans contact tel #. I will spend the money for a long distance call to them and get them off the stump. When I get it, I will post it here for all to see!!!! How dare they hide behind Email.....They should be ashamed of themselves. Corporate arrogance is more like it!
ill spend the money for the call too--i need an answer and help

This long standing dealer, was unaware of the "possibility" this and other Paradigm models with multiple woofers used for Center channel "may" be wired or operate out of phase at some point in their frequency range.Then he is ignorant of how speakers are designed and built.

Were this abnormality prevalent, the Audio press would have latched on to it and addressed it.It is common and, in many cases, inevitable in complex multi-driver systems. Take a look at the speaker phase measurements in Stereophile, or elsewhere, and you will see ample evidence.

My inclination however is to trust the speaker designer and relegate myself to accept a ROOM vagary and work around it in subtle ways within the WAF.Yup. Just check all your wiring and, if you confirm correct connections, ignore the warnings of the setup system.

ps to the DR.>>>>My 20yr old Rogers LS5/3a make some pretty good sounding HT speakers!No doubt.

I would strongly urge you buy floor models as they have already been broken in and the dealer is ready to move into the next series. Sometimes for a few $$$ more, they will throw in the cabling as it may not be a good match for the replacement speakers!
Speakers don't need to be broken in. There is no need to change cables when you change speakers unless you are bi-wiring or one has a strange connection.

i have a pair of 7semk3 towers...which are are no longer made...which current paradigm center channel would be best timbre match for these?

Before I chose the Paradigm mini's, Atoms & CC290 in combination. I listened to the Definitives (Definitively NOT), Mirage( correctly named), Bose(yeah really!), Klipsch (KRAP), HSU (leaves you hungry in an hour), Athena (for the gods only), Polk(full of holes), ERA (nice, though narrow dispersion $), B&W 600-602 series (very nice, musical, attractive, 7/10 accurate--Subs suck), SNELL- K7, LCR7, CLS ,(here's where we got serious sound-imaging, focus, accurate, very attractive, compact and handled high levels without break up- seamless throughout the line!VG Sub.) MY cost as a Dealer was over $2500-- too rich for even me. The Paradigms it was to be. They had about 70-80% of the SNELL performance for about 40% of the cost.

As a reference- I listened via TOTL Electronics: Marantz 8001, Yamaha 2700 and Pioneer 84Tsi (a sonic dog). In each listening session I choose the better performing A/V receiver the dealer had in use. You will find Dealers will carry both of the following combinations: Pioneer & Yamaha, Marantz / Denon & Yamaha. It is rare you will find Marantz and Pioneer.

Hope that helps you.

Can anyone comment of the benefits of bi-wiring the Monitor 9's v.5? I have never done this in the past so I'm a little intrigued.

Before I chose the Paradigm mini's, Atoms & CC290 in combination. I listened to the Definitives (Definitively NOT), Mirage( correctly named), Bose(yeah really!), Klipsch (KRAP), HSU (leaves you hungry in an hour), Athena (for the gods only), Polk(full of holes), ERA (nice, though narrow dispersion $), B&W 600-602 series (very nice, musical, attractive, 7/10 accurate--Subs suck), SNELL- K7, LCR7, CLS ,(here's where we got serious sound-imaging, focus, accurate, very attractive, compact and handled high levels without break up- seamless throughout the line!VG Sub.) MY cost as a Dealer was over $2500-- too rich for even me. The Paradigms it was to be. They had about 70-80% of the SNELL performance for about 40% of the cost.

As a reference- I listened via TOTL Electronics: Marantz 8001, Yamaha 2700 and Pioneer 84Tsi (a sonic dog). In each listening session I choose the better performing A/V receiver the dealer had in use. You will find Dealers will carry both of the following combinations: Pioneer & Yamaha, Marantz / Denon & Yamaha. It is rare you will find Marantz and Pioneer.

Hope that helps you.
well i just bought the new yamaha htr-6060...so ya think the cc series would timbre match the 7semk3s?

Speakers don't need to be broken in. There is no need to change cables when you change speakers unless you are bi-wiring or one has a strange connection.

Your missing the point maybe.... Speakers do indeed improve sonically with a modest break-in period behind them. (I ask the trusty Dr. to step up please!).

Is it critical? Of course not. Though it speeds up getting to the enjoyment which is to follow.

Thus unlike a used car which may be fraught with issues, the dealer Demo pair may provide immediate sonic satisfaction AND an much reduced investment. The comment about the cables is an added thought, not a necessity.

(To the Dr. I am a newly involved principle in the dealership in question. I admit my own technical ignorance. However, as a lay audiophile of many years I can quickly discern poor sonic quality and that includes many of the highly thought of audio products out there past and present and also includes how a correctly phased speaker PAIR sounds. That should explain some my confusion when advised my wiring (speaker) was out of phase, as the sonic clues of diffuse aimless sound was not sonically apparent to my ears.) No mea culpa here.

If anyone doubts the benefits of speaker break-in, they should read the article by Danny Richie of GR Research. He provided benchmarks of both before and after the break-in process. Clearly, there is a benefit to breaking in a speaker.

Edit: Here's the link to the article and the tests:

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.shtm

well i just bought the new yamaha htr-6060...so ya think the cc series would timbre match the 7semk3s?

I would ask an dealer you are considering the opportunity to take it home for a night or two (offer to leave a charge card deposit of sorts) and hook it up with your existing speakers and give it a sonic listen with a variety of music, Movie sound tracks et al. Should the the dealer decline... Trash that dealer and move on quickly!

It would impudent of me to assume I could make a recommendation of that type with the quantity and type of variables which exist. (fill in the blanks). We are fortunate here to have the the Dr. sitting on high who may or will interject to keep things real world and sans sonic puffery and Technical inaccuracies.

What say ye Dr? ;)

I would ask an dealer you are considering the opportunity to take it home for a night or two (offer to leave a charge card deposit of sorts) and hook it up with your existing speakers and give it a sonic listen with a variety of music, Movie sound tracks et al. Should the the dealer decline... Trash that dealer and move on quickly!

It would impudent of me to assume I could make a recommendation of that type with the quantity and type of variables which exist. (fill in the blanks). We are fortunate here to have the the Dr. sitting on high who may or will interject to keep things real world and sans sonic puffery and Technical inaccuracies.

What say ye Dr? ;)
closest dealer is 70 miles away....i just wanna make one trip to buy it..with the peace of mind knowing itll fit in with 7semk3s

ill spend the money for the call too--i need an answer and help

As promised here is a link to the corporate info on the Paradigm Electronics Company including tel #'s and fax!

Keep in a convenient place!

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/app/ccc/search/navigate.do?language=eng&portal=1&subPortal=&estblmntNo=123456156282&profile=completeProfile

TEL # update!!!


The correct number for PARADIGM CUSTOMER SERVICE IS 905-632-0180!!!!

THE NUMBER GIVEN ON THE LINK IS INCORRECT...SORRY......

Your missing the point maybe.... Speakers do indeed improve sonically with a modest break-in period behind them. (I ask the trusty Dr. to step up please!).Don't ask me to help you with this one.

(To the Dr. I am a newly involved principle in the dealership in question. I admit my own technical ignorance. However, as a lay audiophile of many years I can quickly discern poor sonic quality and that includes many of the highly thought of audio products out there past and present and also includes how a correctly phased speaker PAIR sounds.That's inverted polarity between channels.

That should explain some my confusion when advised my wiring (speaker) was out of phase, as the sonic clues of diffuse aimless sound was not sonically apparent to my ears.) No mea culpa here.There are variable phase-shifts within a set of drivers dictated by their design and by the crossover filter.

Don't ask me to help you with this one.

That's inverted polarity between channels.

There are variable phase-shifts within a set of drivers dictated by their design and by the crossover filter.

That's what I said- right? :)

So I tested out my first Paradigm today in my quest for new speakers. I demo'd the Reference Series 60s and WOW.

I have sample CD I made with tracks from spanning Beethoven to NIN, GNR, and a lot in between. Music never sounded so good. Wow. I also had the supercube? sub on as well with the mucic.

They had just sold the center demo in the room so I couldn't hear movies today. I will have to go back and see how they do with movies. Looking to get an entire set and so far I'm wavering between Def Tech and Par. Par sound a bit better with mucic IMO. I demo'd the DT BP7006 yesterday.

How do current Ref series 60 owners like? Are they as good for movies?

if a speaker sounds great for music it will be just as great with movies
not the other way around since movie sound is more missforgiving.

How do current Ref series 60 owners like? Are they as good for movies?

I haven't brought a bunch of speakers home, but I have had a home theater setup for a long time, coming from an older half assed polk audio system which was always loved by my friends, Out of all my friends I have always had the best setup, even with the stuff I had...

After getting everything setup properly, with the right power driving my system, I am still to this day floored by the performance of these speakers... Powerful and impactful as well as clean and intricate...

I really think I found what I was looking for in a set of speakers that excell in Music Playback and Movies... But those are my ears... I personally love them.

Only thing I would change, would be to next time check out the Signatures...
I think the S6's might be in my future... But I got a couple years I'll be chillin with these... :)

I haven't brought a bunch of speakers home, but I have had a home theater setup for a long time, coming from an older half assed polk audio system which was always loved by my friends, Out of all my friends I have always had the best setup, even with the stuff I had...

After getting everything setup properly, with the right power driving my system, I am still to this day floored by the performance of these speakers... Powerful and impactful as well as clean and intricate...

I really think I found what I was looking for in a set of speakers that excell in Music Playback and Movies... But those are my ears... I personally love them.

Only thing I would change, would be to next time check out the Signatures...
I think the S6's might be in my future... But I got a couple years I'll be chillin with these... :)

I probably sat there and listened to my CD for over an hour. The music never sounded that good before. I really was speechless.

if a speaker sounds great for music it will be just as great with movies
not the other way around since movie sound is more missforgiving.

That is a very true statement.

i have a pair of 7semk3 towers...which are are no longer made...which current paradigm center channel would be best timbre match for these?
I still own a pair of those myself, I was using a cc-450 center with them, but that center is no longer available. I would use a center from the monitor line, since that is the line that the se's evolved into, imo that would be your closest match. I have since upgraded to studio 100's and am still using the 450, sounds good to me.....You could also look for an older cc center on audiogon or e-bay, which might match up better....

As per this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=834682) I am looking to invest in some Paradigms.

I think I will settle on 2 x Studio 40 or 60 for fronts, CC590 for centre, and keep my infinity RS2.

My thread is dying, and would love for some Paradigm owners to breathe new life into it for me.

Thanks in advance.

Get the 60's as once you buy stands with the 40's you're almost up to the 60's in price. ALso, checkout the cc-690. I upgraded from the cc570 to the cc690 and it's a huge difference ;)

Get the 60's as once you buy stands with the 40's you're almost up to the 60's in price. ALso, checkout the cc-690. I upgraded from the cc570 to the cc690 and it's a huge difference ;)

yeah i was thinking of it... but then I also have to consider the dreaded wife factor :D

Ask. My wife hates little boxes on stands and much prefers floorstanding speakers.

haha...

no no, the floor standers will be fine

I was referring to the size of the CC690... that thing looks like a true beast (compared to the centre in my house it would be replacing). I havent even explained yet that since she is letting me get new floors, that a new centre is a give :)

haha...

no no, the floor standers will be fine

I was referring to the size of the CC690... that thing looks like a true beast (compared to the centre in my house it would be replacing). I havent even explained yet that since she is letting me get new floors, that a new centre is a give :)
I use 3 Studio 60s in the small system and it's fine with my wife (and me). ;)

Yep, my cc690 is HUGE lol The box is almost as big as the box the Studio 60 comes in. Now that's a BIG center :)

gobbluth
I agree, that center is simply awesome... I would rather have 3 - 100's as I have them for mains, but that 690 is just like a 100 for the center, and my room wouldn't accomodate 3 floorstanders... I would do the absolute best you can for the front 3 and use your old speakers for surrounds for now if you can't afford the 20's or ADP's for rears right now...

Good luck...

My current setup is as follows;

Nakamichi AV-10 receiver
Paradigm CC 350 centre
Paradigm Mini Monitors for surrounds
Paradigm PS-1000 sub

I also have a pair of Paradigm Monitor 9's for speaker B that I used in another room. I loaned them to a friend a while back and he loves them.

When I bought my Paradigms the saleman said they were the best value for your dollar and I believe him. When the time comes to upgrade and replace speakers it will be with Paradigms. It's interesting to learn that they are still one of the best valued speakers for the money after all these years and awards that Paradigm has won.

Eric

Hi all , great thread !
I have an opportunity to buy a pair of Studio 60s, used for $690.
I believe they are the original version. Does this seem like a fair price ?
How would you compare them to Monitor Audio RS8s [ which I currently own ] ?

Thanks for your help

Dennis

As promised here is a link to the corporate info on the Paradigm Electronics Company including tel #'s and fax!

Keep in a convenient place!

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/app/ccc/search/navigate.do?language=eng&portal=1&subPortal=&estblmntNo=123456156282&profile=completeProfile

TEL # update!!!


The correct number for PARADIGM CUSTOMER SERVICE IS 905-632-0180!!!!

THE NUMBER GIVEN ON THE LINK IS INCORRECT...SORRY......
good ill call tomorrow..since they still havent my email question..hell even the paradigm distributors i emailed havent even answered me..pathetic

Then he is ignorant of how speakers are designed and built.

It is common and, in many cases, inevitable in complex multi-driver systems. Take a look at the speaker phase measurements in Stereophile, or elsewhere, and you will see ample evidence.

Yup. Just check all your wiring and, if you confirm correct connections, ignore the warnings of the setup system.

No doubt.

Attn:The Dr.

Call made to the "unreachable" Paradigm customer service=PERSON-- thats right PERSON as in singular, uno, one, 1...!


Was on hold forever LD to Canada. Finally reached "GARY" (last name withheld by me) and explained the entire phase/Yamaha issue and how the CC290 was perceived as out of phase relative to the other speakers. I had emailed Paradigm at a prior time and Gary responded on their behalf. So I emailed him advising I was going to call and ask to speak to him today. He was pleasant and informative!

He advised me Paradigm R & D assured him, NO crossover out of phase aberration exists at any frequency is this model or those above it (390, 590, 690, sig C3 & C5). They operate in-phase at all frequencies in their normal operating ranges. So that puts this issue to bed!

As for the YPAO matter, he suggested ROOM interaction is the culprit as the Good DR. suggested yesterday. Accepted and another issue is buried!

Being on a roll, I contacted our friends at Yamaha...Hmmmmm interesting dialogs with them... You can read that over at the Yamaha RS-V2700 Forum.

Oh, by the way the Paradigm telephone number (not on their website) is 905 632-0180....

He advised me Paradigm R & D assured him, NO crossover out of phase aberration exists at any frequency is this model or those above it (390, 590, 690, sig C3 & C5). They operate in-phase at all frequencies in their normal operating ranges. So that puts this issue to bed!Glad that satisfies you but it is a simplistic answer since any filter will result in a phase shift near and beyond nominal cutoff.

How do you match a receiver to your speakers?

I just oredered a pair of beautiful polished aluminum Millennia 200's and are rated at a max input of 130 W. Looking for receivers i found one listed at 110W x 7 RMS, but 140 W x 7 MAX. Which should I go by. Should I tone down the receiver to something like 90/95 W x 7 RMS, because a lot of receivers I see dont list the max WPC.

I'm looking at Yamahas mostly, but anyone got any suggstions for the 200's?

How do you match a receiver to your speakers?

I just oredered a pair of beautiful polished aluminum Millennia 200's and are rated at a max input of 130 W. Looking for receivers i found one listed at 110W x 7 RMS, but 140 W x 7 MAX. Which should I go by. Should I tone down the receiver to something like 90/95 W x 7 RMS, because a lot of receivers I see dont list the max WPC.

I'm looking at Yamahas mostly, but anyone got any suggstions for the 200's?

This is an ABSOLUTE>>>>> Consider output wattage as "Horsepower". If your engine has 400hp, do you use it ALL driving at 55mph? Of course not! However, think of the times you needed that extra "surge"and stepped on the accelerator pedal to find ample power to achieve your intent.

That is what maximum output Rms per channel is and does. It lays dormant until either increased loudness or the lower (Bass) frequencies or BOTH need power to push out the woofer or midrange cones....MOVE AIR.

You can never have enough (clean, quality) wattage feed by a high current amplifier source which doesn't run out of steam feeding speakers which operate a good deal of the time in less than 8 Ohm output .

Take that to the bank. ;)

ps Even if you speakers are " high output, efficient, high sensitivity"! :cool:

Hey all, I was reading in another forum about Paradigm speakers and high current amps.
they were saying its not power that makes them sing its high current amps
Does anyone have any thoughts on this ?
Thanks

Hey all, I was reading in another forum about Paradigm speakers and high current amps.
they were saying its not power that makes them sing its high current amps
Does anyone have any thoughts on this ?
Thanks

Please read my closing comments in the post right above.

High current is indeed the manna of the audio gods. You can never have enough.
But, that means higher cost due to better power supply regulation, components, design, not necessarily in that order.

Among other reasons, that is why Yamaha, Marantz and Denon TOTL A/V models are the units of choice for serious "one" unit Home theaterphiles.

There are few brands or models that produce serious current or wattage when the going gets tough in that dreadful "4 ohm" arena. Mind you, 7 amps each putting out 100-140watts RMS at the same time to meet the U.S. regulations is very difficult to achieve in a single consumer friendly chassis. That in conjunction with making sure the amp surface can be touched without burns makes is doubly so!

Please read my closing comments in the post right above.

High current is indeed the manna of the audio gods. You can never have enough.
But, that means higher cost due to better power supply regulation, components, design, not necessarily in that order.

Among other reasons, that is why Yamaha, Marantz and Denon TOTL A/V models are the units of choice for serious "one" unit Home theaterphiles.

There are few brands or models that produce serious current or wattage when the going gets tough in that dreadful "4 ohm" arena. Mind you, 7 amps each putting out 100-140watts RMS at the same time to meet the U.S. regulations is very difficult to achieve in a single consumer friendly chassis. That in conjunction with making sure the amp surface can be touched without burns makes is doubly so!You left out Rotel! I own the rsx-1067. My dealer told me the Rotel amps have a more true power rating and that a Denon would need to have almost double the amp rating to equal what Rotel considers 100 watts. I believe it's because they rate their amps with all channels driven? :)

If anyone doubts the benefits of speaker break-in, they should read the article by Danny Richie of GR Research. He provided benchmarks of both before and after the break-in process. Clearly, there is a benefit to breaking in a speaker.

Edit: Here's the link to the article and the tests:

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.shtm

Not too long ago I read another link to a test that showed real changes, but the conclusion was that they were far too small to be audible. These look larger, but again, I don't know how audible they are. I'd like to see someone take 2 or 3 pair of speakers, break in one or two pair, connect them up with proper switches for ABX switching, and then see if listeners can identify not which is broken in (which always seems to result in better sound) but also just whether pair A or pair B is playing. Identify the sonic differences and call one set A and the other B and then reliably state whether one or the other is playing while randomly switching.

If it can be done, great. I just really doubt the posts that someone really disliked a pair of speakers, but after the break-in they suddenly came to life and started to sing. I suspect that the differences are almost always minor and usually close to the threshold of detection.

ginovino you said you are involved in a paradigm dealership ? Is so what one on LI ?

I posted this in my other thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=834682) but wanted to mention it here, since more of you owners will see it.

My local dealer (smaller town <100k) does not have any of the Studio line in stock. So I used the dealer locater, and contacted someone in a large city 2 hours away. I said I wanted to audition them, but needed to know if they were in stock since I would be driving from my town.

Here's how that went:

I said: I am trying to weigh between Paradigm Monitor Series, and Studio Series. I would love to be able to listen to both and compare. I said I would be driving in from my town.

He said: You have a dealer in your town. Please contact them.

I said: Yeah thanks.
Obvisouly if they had them in stock I would have tried that first. I would like to *listen* to them before I spend $3,000+ if you can appreciate that. I can see you really want my business???

He said: Hello,It violates our Paradigm franchise agreement. Sorry.

I said: So I am not allowed to drive to your city to audition speakers? Why would Paradigm want to lose my business by refusing to let me hear their product? You have a customer willing to drive hundreds of kms, spend thousands of dollars, and dont expect to let them hear it before they buy? All I am asking is if you have them in your showroom. I can just have someone phone you tomorrow, as someone living in your city, and ask, so why waste my time, and jeopardize a relationship with a potential customer over such ridiculousness? Did I mention I dont live in my town. I was just joking. I live in your city. Ok then? (see how silly this seems)


anyways, not too impressed. And now I dont even know what to do.. I dont want to just drop 3K on studios without even hearing them.

im going to email paradigm tech support (maybe you shoudl wish me luck with that) and ask them to clarify.

That's ridiculous and doesn't sound right. I've always bought Paradigm speakers in other cities and even pricematched them against each other to get the best deal...

You mean if someone is in town on business and wants to pop in to listen they are going to chase them out of the store when they find out they don't live there?
That's means they are representing their own wallet, and not the manufacturer.

I think he's full of crap. He should be proud to show them off, even if he has to defer the sale to your local store. It could work the other way around too. I suspect you may not have talked to someone really in charge.

But it does not totally surprise me. I have received responses to inquiries from other businesses that was downright insulting. I can't believe these people stay in business. Fortunately, they tend to be few and far between.

I would be tempted to write the mfr. sales rep. and ask if that is how they do business.

How do you match a receiver to your speakers?

I just oredered a pair of beautiful polished aluminum Millennia 200's and are rated at a max input of 130 W. Looking for receivers i found one listed at 110W x 7 RMS, but 140 W x 7 MAX. Which should I go by. Should I tone down the receiver to something like 90/95 W x 7 RMS, because a lot of receivers I see dont list the max WPC.

I'm looking at Yamahas mostly, but anyone got any suggstions for the 200's?

My local dealer has his Studio 100's hooked up to a McIntosh MC402. Thats 400wpc rms. The speakers love the available power. In fact they sound amazing. If you provide your speakers a healthy dose of clean power to draw from they will sound much better. I am not saying you have to spend 5K on an amp. Just do not be afraid to buy an amp that has more watts than the manufacturer suggests. Rotel and Denon are two very good choices.

My local dealer has his Studio 100's hooked up to a McIntosh MC402. Thats 400wpc rms. The speakers love the available power. In fact they sound amazing. If you provide your speakers a healthy dose of clean power to draw from they will sound much better. I am not saying you have to spend 5K on an amp. Just do not be afraid to buy an amp that has more watts than the manufacturer suggests. Rotel and Denon are two very good choices.

+1 on good clean power... For my studio 100's and the 690... I am using a Pioneer elite 81 and powered it all up from that, and then switched to my Rotel 1095 200x5 and it was night and day, the headroom was far greater as well as clarity.
They came alive with a good dose of power.... :)

If it can be done, great. I just really doubt the posts that someone really disliked a pair of speakers, but after the break-in they suddenly came to life and started to sing. I suspect that the differences are almost always minor and usually close to the threshold of detection.

I suggest this article.
http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction

gobbluth,

I would venture to say that the dealer was probably trying to not step on another dealers toes.
Did he actually refuse you to come into his store? Maybe you should have just asked if they had the Studio line in stock without saying where you're from and if they did, go listen to them and make the decison whether you want to buy from them or go back and order them from your dealer...
I am not saying the response you got was your fault, but maybe just look at it differently.

I have a friend in the business that tried to become a Paradigm dealer and he was told no because there were already two other dealers within an hour of each other. Maybe wait a week and try it again?

As far as Paradigms support, Paradigm has thousands and thousands of customers. There are probably 100's and 100's of calls and emails being sent. I think to expect an answer to every little question like, "will this color go in my house" or "will this speaker match", is asking a lot. Sure I think they should answer all of them, but that is a tall order. Plus alot of these questions should be directed to a local dealer. They SHOULD know what matches, and what doesn't, etc....

I hope you do get a chance to listen to them.
Good luck.

I found another dealer, in a closer town (i hadnt thought of it, since I thought I had to go 'big city'). He has the monitor Line, and Studio line, and encouraged me to bring some CD's down and have a listen.

That all said, I have been following the other comments about how importnant power is.... If i go with the Studio 60's and CC590, i *definitely* wont have $$ for a new amp. Do you think my Yamaha RX-V740 (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200253&CTID=5000300&ATRID=1010&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE) would even be up to the task of powering the 60's? Or would I be better off to stick to the monitor line?

Right now Im flip-flopping (of course, after I hear them I may totally change my mind again) between

a) Monitor 11's, CC390, ADP390's and trading my PS1000 for a PW2200. This will cost me about $3000 CDN + tax

b) Studio 60's, CC590, trade my PS1000 for PW2200, but would have to keep my modest Infinity RS2 bookshelfs for my rears... total cost again should be about $3000 CDN + tax.

But if my new AMP wont be able to bring the Studio's to life (please advise!) then maybe I am better sticking with the lower Monitor series.

What do you owners think?

oh, and on the point of whether speakers need to be 'broken in'. As a relative newb to all this, I can understand the comments that the effects of 'braking them in' might be overstated, I was utterly shocked at the number of people who claimed (http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/subwoofers/paradigm/PRD_120358_2741crx.aspx) that the PW2200 was not very good out of the box, and took more than the 'normal' 20 hours to break in. Sift thre reviews, it is a *very* common theme. So you have to wonder... are these people right, or what were they smoking?

I suggest this article.
http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction

gobbluth,

I would venture to say that the dealer was probably trying to not step on another dealers toes.
Did he actually refuse you to come into his store? Maybe you should have just asked if they had the Studio line in stock without saying where you're from and if they did, go listen to them and make the decison whether you want to buy from them or go back and order them from your dealer...
I am not saying the response you got was your fault, but maybe just look at it differently.

I have a friend in the business that tried to become a Paradigm dealer and he was told no because there were already two other dealers within an hour of each other. Maybe wait a week and try it again?

As far as Paradigms support, Paradigm has thousands and thousands of customers. There are probably 100's and 100's of calls and emails being sent. I think to expect an answer to every little question like, "will this color go in my house" or "will this speaker match", is asking a lot. Sure I think they should answer all of them, but that is a tall order. Plus alot of these questions should be directed to a local dealer. They SHOULD know what matches, and what doesn't, etc....

I hope you do get a chance to listen to them.
Good luck.

Well stated, but your comment about thousands of customers pales next to the customer base of Costco, WalMart, GE. etc etc. who take customer responses very seriously. Unfortunately, not all companies do, and I certainly cant speak for Paradigm.

I found another dealer, in a closer town (i hadnt thought of it, since I thought I had to go 'big city'). He has the monitor Line, and Studio line, and encouraged me to bring some CD's down and have a listen.

That all said, I have been following the other comments about how importnant power is.... If i go with the Studio 60's and CC590, i *definitely* wont have $$ for a new amp. Do you think my Yamaha RX-V740 (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200253&CTID=5000300&ATRID=1010&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE) would even be up to the task of powering the 60's? Or would I be better off to stick to the monitor line?

Right now Im flip-flopping (of course, after I hear them I may totally change my mind again) between

a) Monitor 11's, CC390, ADP390's and trading my PS1000 for a PW2200. This will cost me about $3000 CDN + tax

b) Studio 60's, CC590, trade my PS1000 for PW2200, but would have to keep my modest Infinity RS2 bookshelfs for my rears... total cost again should be about $3000 CDN + tax.

But if my new AMP wont be able to bring the Studio's to life (please advise!) then maybe I am better sticking with the lower Monitor series.

What do you owners think?

Unfortunately, imo, your Yamaha is underpowered for either setup. I would go with the Studio's (mostly because of the CC590) and upgrade to a more powerful AVR or better yet a separate amp when you can. With your current AVR you will get good sound from the Studio 60s and CC590. But you will notice a big improvement when you make at least 200 clean watts available.

The in-room sensitivity of the studio series is 90 or 91 db. Compare that with your old speakers... if it's about the same, then they'll play about as loud with your receiver. If your infinities have a lower efficiency, the studios will play louder. The monitor 11 will go unreasonably loud with your receiver, not that you need that.

You're receiver will drive the Studios ok. You just won't be getting all you probably could from them.
The 11's and the 390 are big speakers and while very efficient, will benefit from more power as well.

Is your listening gonna be more movies or music? If it is more movies, then I would maybe look at the Monitor series as the differences will not be missed as much and putting the money toward a better sub would be more beneficial...?

But, if you think you might be able to afford an amp whether it be a 3 channel or 5 channel new or used down the road, maybe jump right in with the Studios as then you won't be wondering what if re: the Studios.

Just sit down and do some serious listening and decide if you can live with the difference either way. It's not like horrible sound will come out of the Studios if you don't have an amp...'Course it is a Yamaha......LOL, KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks guys.

I know this is a whole separate can of worms... what kind of $$ would I be looking at to get a second AMP to compliment my current one? What configurration would I be trying to achieve?

What is the minimum I would have to spend for a more appropriate receiver? If you could give me a few model numbers that would be great.

Maximum - definitely more home theatre than music. But I have kids at home, so really the only time I get to properly crank the tunes is when they are away, which isnt very often (hence part of my hesitance to go all the way to the Studios... how many hours per year of music will I really listen to)...

How big is your room?
Maybe you could do 40's or 20's? Little easier load.

It sounds like though for your applications that the Monitor series will fill the bill just fine.
Since they are efficient, your receiver will be just fine. Maybe look for a used amp on ebay (even though I hate buying used myself). If the processing in your receiver is current, then maybe an offering from Outlaw or something.

If you do go with the Monitor line, you should be just fine.

As far was what receiver you should get, that should be up to you. You are gonna get tons of choices here and that isn't gonna get you any farther down the road. I would chose your speakers, listen to them with what you have then if you find it lacking, go audition receivers. They all have quirks and ergonomics that you'll have to live with.

Mostly HT is exactly the reason I would go with the Studio set-up. IMO the CC590 is far superior to the CC390. Since the center is your most important speaker, I say Studio all the way.

The 590 should blend with the studios and the 390 should blend with the monitors, so if you find the 590 to be far superior, do you find the studio series to be far superior? I have heard a few from both lines, and while I prefer the studio series, I think it is entering the zone of diminishing returns. The zone where it depends on how much cash you can spare and what your other expenses are.

The 590 should blend with the studios and the 390 should blend with the monitors, so if you find the 590 to be far superior, do you find the studio series to be far superior? I have heard a few from both lines, and while I prefer the studio series, I think it is entering the zone of diminishing returns. The zone where it depends on how much cash you can spare and what your other expenses are.

Exactly. This is why I cant wait to get to the dealer Saturday and have a listen for myself.

Part of the difficulty I am having is that if I just keep my rears, I can pretty much have the Studio's for the same price that the 'complete' Monitor set would cost. So then the question of how important the rears are. Is keeping my Infinity bookshelfs, and having a less diffuse rear soundfield (than with ADP's) outweighed by the performance gains of the CC590 & 60's vs. The 11's and 390. And then the issue of could the Amp do them both justice. I am going in circles here. I need to get down to that dealer.

Would it be out of line for me to see if I could bring my Amp to the dealer, and hook it up to their speakers? At least then I would know better what it might sounds like at home. (as Im sure his demo amp will be superior)

Exactly. This is why I cant wait to get to the dealer Saturday and have a listen for myself.

Part of the difficulty I am having is that if I just keep my rears, I can pretty much have the Studio's for the same price that the 'complete' Monitor set would cost. So then the question of how important the rears are. Is keeping my Infinity bookshelfs, and having a less diffuse rear soundfield (than with ADP's) outweighed by the performance gains of the CC590 & 60's vs. The 11's and 390. And then the issue of could the Amp do them both justice. I am going in circles here. I need to get down to that dealer.

Would it be out of line for me to see if I could bring my Amp to the dealer, and hook it up to their speakers? At least then I would know better what it might sounds like at home. (as Im sure his demo amp will be superior)

Seriously, don't worry about your amp driving those studio's.... There is nothing wrong with getting something quality now, and then upgrading a bit later...

That is one of the best parts of home theater/audio... you can upgrade on the fly.. do yourself a favor... go listen to both side by side, with the good quality amp that they provide, and see which speakers you like the best... I'll bet dollars to donuts your ears (if your a true lover of music) will pick the studios...
Get yourself the studio set, use your amp and infinity surrounds you have for now, and look forward to the future to upgrade... there is nothing wrong with a slow transition as you can slowly afford them... Audiogon has great prices on used amps all the time... thats where I got mine... Nothing to be ashamed of....

It took me 6 months to get all my $hit together, but as I got more and more pieces, the better it got... (as well as the learning path when you notice what changed when you added better gear.. I see .v3 studio 20's & ADP surrounds on there all the time.. and many would be hard pressed to hear the difference if your using them for surrounds... the most important part is the front 3 LCR... get that first, then start your upgrade path... Its great to test and see what a good quality amp adds to the mix when you can afford it... :)

Do the best you can do now... and plot out your upgrade path... narrow your search and just chill and wait... been there done that, worth every second of waiting, as I saved thousands getting used gear !!! Don't sweat it bro... :)

Seriously, don't worry about your amp driving those studio's.... There is nothing wrong with getting something quality now, and then upgrading a bit later...

That is one of the best parts of home theater/audio... you can upgrade on the fly.. do yourself a favor... go listen to both side by side, with the good quality amp that they provide, and see which speakers you like the best... I'll bet dollars to donuts your ears (if your a true lover of music) will pick the studios...
Get yourself the studio set, use your amp and infinity surrounds you have for now, and look forward to the future to upgrade... there is nothing wrong with a slow transition as you can slowly afford them... Audiogon has great prices on used amps all the time... thats where I got mine... Nothing to be ashamed of....

It took me 6 months to get all my $hit together, but as I got more and more pieces, the better it got... (as well as the learning path when you notice what changed when you added better gear.. I see .v3 studio 20's & ADP surrounds on there all the time.. and many would be hard pressed to hear the difference if your using them for surrounds... the most important part is the front 3 LCR... get that first, then start your upgrade path... Its great to test and see what a good quality amp adds to the mix when you can afford it... :)

Do the best you can do now... and plot out your upgrade path... narrow your search and just chill and wait... been there done that, worth every second of waiting, as I saved thousands getting used gear !!! Don't sweat it bro... :)

Excellent advise.

I first heard Paradigm speakers about 2 years ago. (At the time I had 10 year old Bose 501's that I thought sounded good.) Needless to say I was blown away and bought Monitor 3's, and a CC370. After a few upgrades, (and a successful poker trip to Vegas) I now have Studio 100's, CC570 and Studio 20 surrounds. My center and surrounds were bought used from AVS members. Rotel amp used off Audiogon. Saved a ton. The journey has been fun and a great learning process.

I agree with Warp. If you listen to both I think you will choose the Studio's. You will have a fantastic center. Add an amp when you can. Very few people can go straight to a full blow high-end system. It is just too expensive. Like he said, Don't sweat it bro. Just have fun.

I found another dealer, in a closer town (i hadnt thought of it, since I thought I had to go 'big city'). He has the monitor Line, and Studio line, and encouraged me to bring some CD's down and have a listen.

That all said, I have been following the other comments about how importnant power is.... If i go with the Studio 60's and CC590, i *definitely* wont have $$ for a new amp. Do you think my Yamaha RX-V740 (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200253&CTID=5000300&ATRID=1010&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE) would even be up to the task of powering the 60's? Or would I be better off to stick to the monitor line?

Right now Im flip-flopping (of course, after I hear them I may totally change my mind again) between

a) Monitor 11's, CC390, ADP390's and trading my PS1000 for a PW2200. This will cost me about $3000 CDN + tax

b) Studio 60's, CC590, trade my PS1000 for PW2200, but would have to keep my modest Infinity RS2 bookshelfs for my rears... total cost again should be about $3000 CDN + tax.

But if my new AMP wont be able to bring the Studio's to life (please advise!) then maybe I am better sticking with the lower Monitor series.

What do you owners think?

Gobbluth, two comments...

Funny reading this today. I too am on a quest for new speakers and happen to travel every other week to pittsburgh for work (I leave in Cleveland 2 hours away). Anyway, I demo'd the Studio 60 V4's Sunday at my local dealer and freaking couldn't believe my ears (more on that later).

Anyway, a store here in Pitt has Monitor Audios (which my store does not), so I stopped by to demo and check out the store. Anyway, we got to talking about Paradigm's and I said something to the effect that its "impossible to get Paradigm for less than MSRP with no internet dealers and limited Brick and mortar dealers". He said if they are caught undercutting, they can lose the Paradigm business entirely.

I had no problem with it and its Paradigms decision to do business that way...but that may explain the comment from the other store. $hit, I would drive to Pittsburgh to save a couple of hundy on speakers if this store would undercut the other store. So, I can see the point. Although that was not your intention, the guy on the phone may be taught to give that response just to avoid that scenario...

Anyway, on to the 60s. WOW. I was mesmorized. I made a CD for my speaker shopping with all different sorts of music styles. Every type those speakers just sounded unreal. Everything else I demo sounds like crap now.

My advice is to make a CD spanning the music spectrum and try as many as you can. Once you get to these, forget about it. You will want to throw them in the trunk immediately. I will be getting them....at some point, once I get 1800 I don't need to use on other stuff.

Good luck and enjoy!

I said something to the effect that its "impossible to get Paradigm for less than MSRP with no internet dealers and limited Brick and mortar dealers". He said if they are caught undercutting, they can lose the Paradigm business entirely.

I'm not a lawyer, but maybe someone can explain why this practice is not considered price-fixing?

Hey all, I was reading in another forum about Paradigm speakers and high current amps.
they were saying its not power that makes them sing its high current amps
Does anyone have any thoughts on this ?
Thanks
My experience in this is when I upgraded from two channels of my 75 wpc. Rotel receiver, to a stereo 200 wpc Aragon amp, driving my Studio 60s, there was an improvement in bass and detail. Whether not this was due to the higher current capacity, or just more watts, don't know.

I do know that there was much more of a difference when I originally bought the Aragon, replacing a small Adcom amp, driving a pair of CS3.0 Thiels...night and day! Found the same thing with my Magnepans driven by the Rotel vs the Aragon.

IMHO, the Studio 60s are an easy load to drive, any difference would come from a more refined amplifier. That might not be the case for the 100s.

I plan on taking the Aragon off the 60s, and use them to drive my Maggies (again), where they will do more good. Probably pick up a used Rotel 1070 or 1080 for the 60s.