Thanks to all, seems the ADP's are preferred so far.

Why did you all choose ADP over books?

Thanks to all, seems the ADP's are preferred so far.

Why did you all choose ADP over books?

I will let Warp explain his setup (it rocks!)

but for me, I didn't have alot of room from the listening area to the back of the room. The 20s would have been right on the listener and extremely loud.. The ADP spread the sound and gives a more enveloping feeling. If your back of the room was 6+ feet from the listening area the the 20s would be better. For me, the distance was <1.5 feet.. the ADP's were a better route. :)

My room setup is laid out in the corner. LINK (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/HT-Great%20Room/RoomLayout.jpg)
So I went with 20s up high for side surrounds, and ADP behind the couches in a corner placement, which bounces off the walls and hits the listening positions perfectly... I wasn't sure how it would work, but I love the way it sounds...

Thanks guys for your thoughts. My setup has my rears about 5 feet away from the main listening position. So would you think books would be better?

Heres a drawing (not to scale) No one ever sits in the rear couch.

Thanks to all, seems the ADP's are preferred so far.

Why did you all choose ADP over books?

20s for me in the rear of a 5.1

Went with 20s due to a slowly growing SACD and DVD-A collection.

20s for me in the rear of a 5.1

Went with 20s due to a slowly growing SACD and DVD-A collection.

how far away are the 20's from your LP?

20s for me in the rear of a 5.1

Went with 20s due to a slowly growing SACD and DVD-A collection.

what is wrong with adps and SACDs? just curious..

how far away are the 20's from your LP?

About 2 feet.

what is wrong with adps and SACDs? just curious..

Nothing wrong with them at all. Just a personal preference for me. I liked the sound of 20s over the ADPs.

My listening methods may have been a bit different than the norm.

IMO the amount of "information" in the majority of movie surround tracks is pretty limited. There are some good ones out there but I find them to be the exception rather than the norm. Also, with most movie surround tracks all you're getting is a bump or bang, a creek here or there, a plane or train going by, some crowd noise or traffic. Nothing very intricate or hard to reproduce.

Therefore my main focus for my surrounds was music reproduction. So I listened to the 20s and ADPs as front speakers with the thought process of which ever sounded better to me as mains would definitely sound better as rears.

It worked for me, YMMV.

how far away are the 20's from your LP?
About 2 feet.
Wow...that seems awfully close for direct radiating speakers. Don't you find them to focused or locateable at that close range? We opted for ADP-470's about 5 feet behind us and about 2 feet off to each side because I thought the 20's would have too much "pinpoint" sound, particularly with SACD and DVD-A.

J.

Hi all,

Jut an FYI.

My ADP 590's have been mounted in a 5.1 arrangement for the past 4 months. I had them mounted upside down because it was the only way I could get the speaker wire behind them and plugged in. Anyway it occurred to me a couple of days ago that instead of plugging into the jack I could unscrew them and slipping it side ways allowing me to hang them right side up. They are capable of being hung in either position.

Anyway, when I started making the change I notice that the entire top plate ( or bottom in my case) on both speakers, the part that hooks on the hanging clip, had separated from the box exposing the crossover etc. I promptly removed them to their boxes and took them back to the dealer who was equally surprised. By the way, the top plate was separating about an inch, probably only a day or two before they hit the ground.

The dealer was Johnny on the spot with a brand new pair and they are hanging right side up, under close observation, and working perfectly.

Check your speakers people. Check your speakers

DN

Wow...that seems awfully close for direct radiating speakers. Don't you find them to focused or locateable at that close range? We opted for ADP-470's about 5 feet behind us and about 2 feet off to each side because I thought the 20's would have too much "pinpoint" sound, particularly with SACD and DVD-A.

J.

Not when I'm just listening to music. If I stop and think about what I am listening to I can locate them.

90% of the time I listen to music for my enjoyment, 10% of the time its critical listening to determine if I'm going to enjoy it. During that 10% I intentionally try to locate them and can.

Hi all,

The dealer was Johnny on the spot with a brand new pair and they are hanging right side up, under close observation, and working perfectly.

Check your speakers people. Check your speakers

DN

It's good to hear a positive dealer report. Glad it worked out.

I'm running 60's 570 and 20's for surrounds. Mostly music and I love the 20's for 5.1 stuff.

really.. why is that??

Babal_Fish I find the ADP-370's to provide a fuller sound than the 390's. I had the 390's and still own one pair, so I was able to compare the sound on my system with both setups.

Others may have a different opinion, but for me the I feel the 370's are better built, and provide my room with a fuller more impactful surround experience when watching movies.

I am running monitor 9v.5s fronts and cc-390 centre channel... I want to get the new monitor surrounds and was wondering, would the monitor 190's do a decent job or would the 390's be better?.. money isn't really an issue but the 190's are 200 bucks cheaper.. lol. Any help would be appreciated. :D
if money is no issue go for broke and get the 390's.

Hey, looking for opinions. I know nothing about the technical end of things, so going by what I've read I purchased the Studio100's, CC-590, Seismec 10 sub and the SA15R in-ceilings for surrounds. I have to use in-ceiling surrounds because I have no back wall[open to kitchen/dining area] and one of my sidewalls is angled. I'm having second thoughts about the surrounds. Does anyone have any thoughts/recommendations on high end in-ceiling surrounds? Am I ok with the SA15R's? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

I can't help you on the surrounds but you made the right choice with the 100s :) Those things are awesome! I love mine.. did you get the v4s?

No, I got the V3's. They are demos and I couldn't pass up the deal-$1050.00.

wow! nice price. I am assuming you still got the warranty since it was purchased through the dealer.. :) thats the best way to go :)

Yes, through a dealer!

Yes, through a dealer!

Thats how I got all of my stuff! :) best way to go in my opinion! :)

Question,

Would you consider the upcoming Onkyo NR 905 as a 'sufficient' enough receiver that it would not need an amp?

I know an external Amp like a rotel 1095 would be ideal but would it be necessary if the PrePro was the upcoming Onkyo 905?

The set up (current work in progress) will consist of Studio 100s, CC690, adp590's, and a SVS PB13-Ultra sub.

I dont have the exact dimensions of my room but can figure them out when I get home if needed?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

I already own the thing. Since it arrived with a flaky tweeter, it's still in the shop. The midrange problems seem to have nothing to do with the tweeter as a C3 seems to exhibit the same problems. I was mostly concerned with music and wanted a reasonable surround experience, so I focused entirely on the front pair and took a gamble on the center because I couldn't get access to one. While I didn't expect a perfect match with the center, I didn't realize that it could be that far out. I didn't go to the measurements until after I realized that the centers sound really different. The lesson for others is not to make the same mistakes I made.

As I look more closely at the two reviews I sited previously, both the S4 and the S8 have a rise in the 600-1200Hz range, which further accentuates the ~5dB drop of the C3 and C5 across the same range. Likewise the S4 and S8 drop in the 300-600Hz octave where the two centers have a rise of a few dB. All in all you're talking a near 4dB difference across one octave and a near 7dB difference across the next octave. If I'm going to call Paradigm, I'd be asking why speakers that are supposed to be "matched" and are rated at +/-2dB across most of the spectrum diverge so strongly in the midrange where voices are, which seems to make up a significant part of the center channel sound.

A followup is in order. It turns out the two midrange drivers on the C5v2 were wired out of phase, which is why they sounded like a shortwave radio with a low pass filter. Since fixed, the midrange is significantly better than the C3 I borrowed. Voices are still chesty, and I've been able to EQ that out (the frequencies I'm pulling down are in the 150-450Hz range, well below what I would have expected from the V1 frequency measurements.) It needs this whether its 12", 18" or 30" off the ground, horizontal or vertical, in the center or in place of an S8, so I can't see this being a room anomaly. It still needs some EQ work to be a match for the S8s, but it's usable now, and with some work I think I can get a good blend.

The ADPs also came in, and they sound good. I broke them in with medium volume two channel music, which was an interesting experience with the dipole design. It's not the sound you'd expect from a normal stereo speaker system, and yet it's still better than some fronts I've heard :-) The clarity of the audience hecklers on the "Alison Krauss + Union Station Live" DVD is amazing!

In summary, I'd highly recommend the S8s for fronts and recommend the ADPs for a surround system. I'm still down on the center, though a working C5 and EQ are slowly changing my mind.

What are you using for an EQ unit?

Question,

Would you consider the upcoming Onkyo NR 905 as a 'sufficient' enough receiver that it would not need an amp?

I know an external Amp like a rotel 1095 would be ideal but would it be necessary if the PrePro was the upcoming Onkyo 905?

The set up (current work in progress) will consist of Studio 100s, CC690, adp590's, and a SVS PB13-Ultra sub.

I dont have the exact dimensions of my room but can figure them out when I get home if needed?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

That is my exact setup (except I have two more 590s for a 7.1 setup)... I was told that the 100s will play nicely with the 140wpc (or even with 130wpc..aka denon 3808) but they really come alive when you give them more power. From what I understand is that you might lose some in the low end without a dedicated amp but with the Ultra, that shouldn't be concern... at least not at first.... Eventually you should consider a separate amp but for now you should be fine. :) (I am assuming your 100s are v4s since you have the 690 and the 590s??)

my original plan was to just power everything with the amp and then later get a dedicated amp but money changed so I ended up getting it now..

Question,

Would you consider the upcoming Onkyo NR 905 as a 'sufficient' enough receiver that it would not need an amp?

I know an external Amp like a rotel 1095 would be ideal but would it be necessary if the PrePro was the upcoming Onkyo 905?

The set up (current work in progress) will consist of Studio 100s, CC690, adp590's, and a SVS PB13-Ultra sub.

I dont have the exact dimensions of my room but can figure them out when I get home if needed?

Thanks in advance for your replies.
hard to say till it has been test benched but ultra ii spec says 3.2 all channels driven so
my guess and the fact of 60a reserve i would say yes.

Looking for some help.
can anyone confirm or deny this...
OK here's the story.
For fathers day my daughter picked up for me a pair of studio 20 v.4
I am using them for the front.
Just a few days ago I found out that on one of them the woofer is not working [maybe blown] I'm new to this so bare with me..

So I called the place the purchase was made and I am noW being told if it's my fault warrenty is out the question, like if i abused them or If i played music through them...WTF.
the 20's are my front left and right and the store knew thats where I was placing them.
the sales rep said they should be for movies only..
i am 80-90 percent movies and the other music. SACD and DVD-A

so am I screwed here?

Any shop worth it's salt would look at the speaker before they made a judgement.
It is extremely hard to blow a woofer if you are using a typical reciever.

Call Paradigm direct if you don't get the answer you want.

FYI swgiust, I am running a SONY DA5ES receiver on them.
cc290 for the center
ADP390 for the rears and ofcourse the studios20 L/R for the front
I have never gone abover -40 db on music and -35 to -30 the lowest for movies.
Would that be abuse?

Your AVR is right in the recommend power range for the 20's. Playing music through your 20's is not abuse. Over driving a low powered amp (say, 30-50wpc) so it clips and damages your speakers is abuse. Doesn't sound like that is what happened. If your dealer will not help you definitely call Paradigm. Also, let everyone know who this dealer is so others can avoid them.

Read the section in your owners manual titled "Preventing Speaker Damage".

I hope I didn't abuse my keyboard by typing this message.

For fathers day my daughter picked up for me a pair of studio 20 v.4
Just a few days ago I found out that on one of them the woofer is not working [maybe blown]

So I called the place the purchase was made and I am noW being told if it's my fault warrenty is out the question, like if i abused them or If i played music through them...WTF.
the 20's are my front left and right and the store knew thats where I was placing them.
the sales rep said they should be for movies only..
i am 80-90 percent movies and the other music. SACD and DVD-A
so am I screwed here?Uter nonsense on the "movies only" part.

Yes, if you abused them (ie: threw them off the roof) then obviously they're not going to replace them no matter how new they are, but by just playing content through them it's very difficult to blow a woofer and not the tweeter. 99.9% of the time the tweeters go first since they're a lot more fragile (the wire in the voice coils is so much thinner).

Yes, cranking an underpowered amp seriously into cliping may fry a tweeter but this is fairly rare (and pretty hard for the store to prove as well).

Take them back to the store and tell them the woofer stopped working. If you get the crap about "only playing movies" again, talk to the store manager. If HE tells you the same line, call Paradigm and complain as one of their dealers is completely out to lunch.

Paradigm doesn't like their dealers spreading this sort of mis-information. It doesn't help anyone.

kal

Looking for some help.
can anyone confirm or deny this...
OK here's the story.
For fathers day my daughter picked up for me a pair of studio 20 v.4
I am using them for the front.
Just a few days ago I found out that on one of them the woofer is not working [maybe blown] I'm new to this so bare with me..

So I called the place the purchase was made and I am noW being told if it's my fault warrenty is out the question, like if i abused them or If i played music through them...WTF.
the 20's are my front left and right and the store knew thats where I was placing them.
the sales rep said they should be for movies only..
i am 80-90 percent movies and the other music. SACD and DVD-A

so am I screwed here?
make sure the staps on the back are tight i caint tell you how many times when a speaker quit working and it was all because the straps connecting the speaker posts
were loose.

Yeah, I would definitely try a little process-of-elimination before jumping to conclusions and contacting Paradigm. Have you tried switching speaker-outs on your receiver to make sure that the AVR isn't the culprit? Or remove the speaker connection, you didn't specify a connector/termination or bare wire, and try reconnecting it? Also, check what oztech suggested...the gold-plated jumpers that connect the posts may be loose...that would definitely do it. If you can definitely say that the woofer is blown because you've run through these steps, than I'd contact Gary Tanaka at Paradigm tech support and he will certainly work with you.

Good luck and I hope it's just a bad connection.

J.

Anybody here own the studio series? Just purchased a cc-690 (audiogon) and am looking at a pair of studio s-100's. Both are this year, version 4.

Would be replacing Infinity Interlude series speakers. Have enjoyed them for years, but it's time to upgrade!!

Give me some hints on what to expect!!

Anybody here own the studio series? Just purchased a cc-690 (audiogon) and am looking at a pair of studio s-100's. Both are this year, version 4.

Would be replacing Infinity Interlude series speakers. Have enjoyed them for years, but it's time to upgrade!!

Give me some hints on what to expect!!

expect great speakers.. the 690 is an awesome center channel :)

Anybody here own the studio series? Just purchased a cc-690 (audiogon) and am looking at a pair of studio s-100's. Both are this year, version 4.

Would be replacing Infinity Interlude series speakers. Have enjoyed them for years, but it's time to upgrade!!

Give me some hints on what to expect!!

Feed them plenty of clean power and they are amazing. My 100's and cc-570 really came alive when I upgraded to about 380wpc.

Feed them plenty of clean power and they are amazing. My 100's and cc-570 really came alive when I upgraded to about 380wpc.

Sweet.... 380 wpc... and I thought I was happy with my 200 wpc.. :rolleyes: :p

That combo you picked out swgiust is what everyone seems to be going with and it is a fantastic setup... I love mine, and powered with Rotel 1095, I am extremely happy...

051473 is right, invest in a good quality amp, it will last you for a long time, those large speakers (alot of drivers) really open up with a good amp...

I am currently running 7 M-200 Outlaw mono blocks. 990 Outlaw pre/pro.


That enough power... ??

Hi all.

I'm considering a used pair of Studio 60 v3 and a CC570 in a 95% HT application in a room 25'X16'. Any opinions on what value would be reasonable for this trio?

Thanks.

I have been looking at a studio 100 pair and a cc-690. I now find out both are
version 3. I know there is a version 4. What is the difference and should I be concerned over this??????

Version 4s were given the tweeters from the Sig line (from what I understood).. I think the v4s sound wonderful.. I am not sure if I have actually heard the v3s. sorry :(

cc-690 is v4. It was never available as v3. the highest they had was the CC-570.
The 100's might be version 3 or 4 though. Check up on it.
Ya you'd want them to match. The tweeter was changed up.

OK heres what I do know, the CC-690 is version 4, but the Studio 100 towers are
version 3. Is this not a good match? Both speakers are being bought used but virtually brand new. I am saving about 1k over list. Comments??

If it were me I would get the 690 and keep looking for the v4 100s.. Leef is correct.. you would want them to match if possible.. they will sound better (same tweeters and drivers)

OK heres what I do know, the CC-690 is version 4, but the Studio 100 towers are
version 3. Is this not a good match? Both speakers are being bought used but virtually brand new. I am saving about 1k over list. Comments??

That's the exact setup I have and I do love it. Let your ears be the judge.

OK heres what I do know, the CC-690 is version 4, but the Studio 100 towers are
version 3. Is this not a good match? Both speakers are being bought used but virtually brand new. I am saving about 1k over list. Comments??

If the price is right.... get them... Others like JoeKoz have upgraded to the CC-690 with the .v3 100's, and have been plenty happy with them...

Upon auditioning the .v3 to .v4 100's I hardly noticed a difference, mostly its cosmetic (like the feet and the metal color around the drivers) but they did alter the tweet just a touch, not sure many would even notice it...

Good Luck...

Warp

I stand corrected... my apologizes :)

I stand corrected... my apologizes :)

Generally as a whole Babel... I would always say make sure you match your speakers properly, but in this very limited case, Paradigm changed so little here, that It might not offer that much of a sonic difference for people to notice...

Always let your ears be your guide...

Buying Millenia 20 Trio - which ADPs should i buy?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've done a search on this forum, but didn't see a post where someone has purchased the Millenia 20 Trio. Due to WAF and room situation (mounting the Trio below a 50" plasma on a brick fireplace). My questions are: Should I buy the Millenia ADP's (which are much more $ than the other ADPs) to be compatible with the Trio? ...and they will need to go on a back wall (at around 9' high). Is mounting them in the rear an issue? The room is 26'w x 13'd with a 15' cathedral ceiling. I will be using a Yamaha RX-V2700 Rec with an M&K 1B sub. Thanks in advance for your expert opinions.[QUOTE]

I posted the above on 6/15, but didn't receive any responses. Perhaps no one else has my limitations and doesn't need to get the 20 Trio, but does anyone have a opinion on which ADPs to buy? There's a big price jump of almost double going from the Monitor ADP390's to the Millenia ADPs. Would appreciate your advice.

If the price is right.... get them... Others like JoeKoz have upgraded to the CC-690 with the .v3 100's, and have been plenty happy with them...

Upon auditioning the .v3 to .v4 100's I hardly noticed a difference, mostly its cosmetic (like the feet and the metal color around the drivers) but they did alter the tweet just a touch, not sure many would even notice it...

Good Luck...

Warp

Thanks for the replies. I have decided to go ahead and purchase them. If I find the sound off, I can always make them my rear surrounds and purchase v.4.

Can anybody direct me to where I can see the different versions. Paradigms website doesn't even mention versions.

Thanks

I posted the above on 6/15, but didn't receive any responses. Perhaps no one else has my limitations and doesn't need to get the 20 Trio, but does anyone have a opinion on which ADPs to buy? There's a big price jump of almost double going from the Monitor ADP390's to the Millenia ADPs. Would appreciate your advice.

IMO matching surrounds will not make that much difference for movies/TV. If you do allot of multi-channel music listening I would spend the extra money.

Hi all.

I'm considering a used pair of Studio 60 v3 and a CC570 in a 95% HT application in a room 25'X16'. Any opinions on what value would be reasonable for this trio?

Thanks.
Good choice. but be sure put a power amp. you will hear the real sound and power of Studio 60's. hope you enjoy

i got about 20% off MSRP from an authorized dealer, so yes they are willing to deal.. As for buying open box/floor models i wouldn't mind, esp if it meant a nice discount. Just inspect them well before u buy them, same warranty applys as if they were new.
:)
hi.. my dealer can gave 25% off MSRP. why don't you try to shop around. i have 2 dealer. i compare their price. they can both gave a 25% off and its a brand new from the factory. thanks

you basicly got the same thing i did. Monitor 9v5 and cc290. I will be picking up the atoms next week or so... so far i am loving it....Sounds great. Even my dad who has some higher end gear (Dynaudio speakers, aragon amp/pre) enjoyed my speakers. Now i just need to find a sub to go well with these speakers...

hi... think about this. i use for the first time the monitor 7 v4. for 1 week. after a week i ask my dealer about monitor 7 v5 i got it for 2 weeks. i did't satisfy. i made a upgrade for monitor 11 v5 front, cc290 v5 center, monitor 7 v4 surround & PW2200 Sub. i hear the studio series (60's, 40's & 20's). i sell all of them. now i have Studio 60 v4 front, Studio 590 Center, Studio 20's Surround & PW2200 Sub. im planning to add studio 40's as surround and put my 20's as back sorround. and a outlaw 200 watts power amp. my brother has this setup already. he's so very happy. if you can push a little in you budget. GET THE STUDIO SERIES SOUND IS DIFFERENT. thanks

Can anyone comment of the benefits of bi-wiring the Monitor 9's v.5? I have never done this in the past so I'm a little intrigued.
..

hi.. bi-wired is good ... i have a good output on high and low fre. i use to do it on my studio 60's , 590 & studio 20's. much clear sound. some dealer and cable company dont recommend it. but me i will recommend it. you gonna hear the difference. thanks hope its help.

hi.. my dealer can gave 25% off MSRP. why don't you try to shop around. i have 2 dealer. i compare their price. they can both gave a 25% off and its a brand new from the factory. thanks

Wow.. What state is that in??? :( 25% off new items is huge..

Hello, I currently have a Denon AVR 3300 powering the following setup:

Paradigm Studio 60 v2, Studio CC, Mini monitor surrounds, and SVS 20-39 PCi sub.
I'd like to add an amp to the system and use the Denon as the pre/pro. I mainly want to add the amp for stereo listening. I'm happy with the system for HT. Any suggestions on a decent 2 channel amp? I'm willing to go used or new, up to $1,200 or so. Is getting a 2 channel amp first the best way to go? Or should I just bite the bullet and get a 5 channel amp? Eventually, I will get a pre/pro also.

Thanks in advance,

Keith

Version 4s were given the tweeters from the Sig line (from what I understood).. I think the v4s sound wonderful.. I am not sure if I have actually heard the v3s. sorry :(

Actually only the tweet dome made the transiation from the Sigs if I'm correct. The major change is the mid driver cones in the v4 are aluminum as opposed to the mica loaded polymer of the v3's.
That being said, I'm using v4 20's along with v3 60's and it sounds great and blends well.......

Everyone on here seems to be into the SVS subs, are they really better than Paradigm? I can get a pw2200 for $900 new from my dealer and he's telling me there isn't a HUGE difference between it and the servo15? I can also get a cc-690 for $1025.00, he said it's slow right now so he could give me a good deal. What would be compatible or better in the SVS line that would be in the same price range?

Hello, I currently have a Denon AVR 3300 powering the following setup:

Paradigm Studio 60 v2, Studio CC, Mini monitor surrounds, and SVS 20-39 PCi sub.
I'd like to add an amp to the system and use the Denon as the pre/pro. I mainly want to add the amp for stereo listening. I'm happy with the system for HT. Any suggestions on a decent 2 channel amp? I'm willing to go used or new, up to $1,200 or so. Is getting a 2 channel amp first the best way to go? Or should I just bite the bullet and get a 5 channel amp? Eventually, I will get a pre/pro also.

Thanks in advance,

Keith
A lot of owners find themselves in your same situation, myself included. I've got a Denon 3805 that was running a 5.1 (Studio 100, CC570, ADP470), and I added and Anthem MCA-20 (225wpc x 2) for the front end. Most of our use is stereo music, so I wanted to give the 100's more power and the Denon handles the rest effortlessly. I didn't see an immediated need to buy a 5-channel amp at the time, but if we do, I'll just put the Anthem in our 2-channel setup.

There are many other good brands out there to look at, my dealer just happens to carry Anthem.

J.

Actually only the tweet dome made the transiation from the Sigs if I'm correct. The major change is the mid driver cones in the v4 are aluminum as opposed to the mica loaded polymer of the v3's.
That being said, I'm using v4 20's along with v3 60's and it sounds great and blends well.......
you are correct it did not get the whole tweeter.

Everyone on here seems to be into the SVS subs, are they really better than Paradigm? I can get a pw2200 for $900 new from my dealer and he's telling me there isn't a HUGE difference between it and the servo15? I can also get a cc-690 for $1025.00, he said it's slow right now so he could give me a good deal. What would be compatible or better in the SVS line that would be in the same price range?
svs has a very good product to price ratio and there is a difference that
is quite noticable in both loudness and ability to play the last octave
with authority between the pw2200 and the servo-15.

Actually only the tweet dome made the transiation from the Sigs if I'm correct. The major change is the mid driver cones in the v4 are aluminum as opposed to the mica loaded polymer of the v3's.
That being said, I'm using v4 20's along with v3 60's and it sounds great and blends well.......

Thanks for all the input. Here's what happened. I called my local dealer, who would give me nothing but list, told him what I was buying the v 3 for and
he matched it! I'm getting brand new v4 S-100 towers. Matched with a very slightly used CC-690 center.

Now I know this a Paradigm owners thread, but you might want to check out the for sale section, Ive got some Infinity's to get rid of!!!

I have studio 60's v.3 and upgraded from the cc570 to the cc690. It was a huge difference and I would never go back! This is an excellent center channel and sounds great with v.3 speakers. I have better midbass, soundstage, highs, etc and highly recommend the cc690.

Thanks for the response 051473. Like you were saying, the surrounds might make the difference for multichannel music vs movies since I'm only going to use it for 5.1.

Has anyone on the board purchased (or listened to) the 20 Trio and if so, how happy are you with it? I haven't found any dealers that even have it in stock, so at this point, I'm going to buy it without previewing/listening to it. :-(

Hey, I just wanted to ask a question to those that have more experience than I; I had a PS-1000 sub that just was not doing it for me and as I needed rears I returned the sub for full credit toward an upgrade. I auditioned the ADP 390's and also the ADP 590's. Personally I could not tell a difference between the two. They both seemed to difuse the rear sounds about equally and try as I might I could not find the extra dollars in the sound quality anywhere in there.

My question is simply, can anyone tell me if I missed something? I have not opened the 390's yet so I can just go back and swap them for 590's but I'm wondering if someone will say "You will appreciate the 590's over the 390's because of ......... in the future"

I could not really hear much difference, even when all other speakers were shut off and it was just those two. Truthfully there seems to be very little played over the rear speakers in many movies that seem to call for expensive speakers. If it helps any, in the future I will probably go with a set of Studio 60's and a matching center. (Movie watching instead of Music listening)

Regret the purchase or mount the puppies and crank up a movie because I won't notice much between rear's?!


(Edit: 051473's answer above seems to work for my question also)

I have studio 60's v.3 and upgraded from the cc570 to the cc690. It was a huge difference and I would never go back! This is an excellent center channel and sounds great with v.3 speakers. I have better midbass, soundstage, highs, etc and highly recommend the cc690.

That's great to hear. I have the same setup as you, and want to upgrade from the 570 to the 690.

What amplification are you sending to the new center? I use a stereo amp on my 570, vertically bi-amped, and just upgraded from a 125-wpc model to a 200-wpc model. So I'm ready, but probably will have to wait until late this year for the upgrade.

Not that it's really that important, but does the 690 cabinet show much of the new "pewter(?)" color that the other v4s have?

With the grills on you will see nothing different, except for the Pewter Feet, but they are the same design, so I would imagine that you could try to exchange of just buy a set of Black if you wanted....

I am in the process of finishing plans on a HT downstairs. My setup is 7.1...

Front: Monitor 7 v.5 x 2
Center: CC 290
Sides: ADP 390 x 2
Rears: AMS 100R x 2
Sub: PW 2100

Integra DTR 5.8 A/V receiver, Integra DPS 6.5 DVD, Integra CDC 3.4 CD player
Samsung HLT 6187S LED DLP
RTI RF remote

I am seriously considering Monitor 9 v.5 for the fronts and CC 390 center, but budget and space are becoming a concern. Had to start from scratch on everything since this is my first foray into HT land. Any input?

Thanks in advance.

With the grills on you will see nothing different, except for the Pewter Feet, but they are the same design, so I would imagine that you could try to exchange of just buy a set of Black if you wanted....

Thanks. I'm going to have to order a new grille anyway before I sell the 570. Those little plastics inserts on the back of the grille are too darn fragile, I've already broke two. Guess I could order 4 of the little black feet also. If I stand mount the 690, won't need to.

jkhome: if you do end up ordering the grill and feet. please PM me what you find out they cost. Thanks :) (I would have PM'd you but I dont think you are accepting them :) )

jkhome: if you do end up ordering the grill and feet. please PM me what you find out they cost. Thanks :) (I would have PM'd you but I dont think you are accepting them :) )

I'l be happy to, but it will be later this year before I do this upgrade. Just finished hanging a new 42" Panasonic plasma in the bedroom, kind of tapped out now. :D

What's the current price for a pair of Signature S4's? I am currently abroad, and the local "authorized" dealer wants about $3750 for a pair of S4's. I can't seem to find current list prices for these, so am not sure if it's a good deal or not. It seems high though.

What's the current price for a pair of Signature S4's? ... I can't seem to find current list prices for these ...www.paradigm.com

More specifically: http://www.paradigm.com/en/reference/fronts-signature-signatures4-model-2-17-1-33.paradigm

Where it states: Signature S4 $2999USD/pair

kal

Who has the actuall height measurement of the CC-690 center. The website shows 9 1/2", but is that with the feet attached? My tv stand has 9" exactly.

Thanks

I believe that is with the feet.. so if you remove them, you should be fine.. does your tv stand have a shelf that you are wanting to put the speaker in?

Who has the actuall height measurement of the CC-690 center. The website shows 9 1/2", but is that with the feet attached? My tv stand has 9" exactly.

Thanks

The feet will allow for the adjustment to aim the center channel up towards the listener, for better imaging. If your stand is that tight of a squeeze it might present problems, also the rear of the 690 should be open to breath, as it is rear ported.

Just a couple more things to think about...

Thanks, My tv stand is open to the back, so no port problems there.
My current center is in the cabinet level. That's where I get the best image.
I'm hoping this one doesn't mind being flat either.

does that mean the speaker is already at ear level...?

If so great... I would think all would be just fine... otherwise you may just not have the perfect scenario, but I imagine it will sound fantastic...

What speakers are you coming from now..?

When I get home, I can give you exact measurement on the height without feet.. :)

No, actually the center is about 4" off the floor. About 10" from the bottom of the
tv screen. The voices sound just like they a coming from the center of my tv screen, so I guess that is what I am looking for??

My center now is a very good Infinity IL-36c.

I took the measurements on the CC-690 and it measures 8 1/2 inches hight without the feet... so it sounds like you are in luck there partner... :)

It is 36" wide, without the grill grill sticks out just shy of 1" on both sides.

15 1/2" deep with the grill...

That's great to hear. I have the same setup as you, and want to upgrade from the 570 to the 690.

What amplification are you sending to the new center? I use a stereo amp on my 570, vertically bi-amped, and just upgraded from a 125-wpc model to a 200-wpc model. So I'm ready, but probably will have to wait until late this year for the upgrade.

Not that it's really that important, but does the 690 cabinet show much of the new "pewter(?)" color that the other v4s have?

Sorry, been away for a few days. I'm using the Outlaw 990 pre pro and Outlaw 7125 amp to power my setup. It's as follows STudio 60's v.3, cc690, 4 of the adp570's, SVS pb12/plus 2 sub. It rocks the house and I couldn't be happier :)

dvdguru, how do you have your 570's set up. I am also looking a 4 of the 590's.
2 in back, 2 on the sides. Thanks.

We will have very close systems, I have the 990, 7-M-200's, S-100 v4, CC-690,
SVS Ultra/2 and SVS Plus/2

I also have a close sytem. Outlaw 990 and 7125, but I use Monitor 11's V5's, the new CC390 and 4 ADP-390's. I also use a PW2200

I also have a close sytem. Outlaw 990 and 7125, but I use Monitor 11's V5's, the new CC390 and 4 ADP-390's. I also use a PW2200


How do you have your adp-390's set up?

I don;t know they are still sitting right here at my feet in their boxes, Waiting for the drywallers to finish up

dvdguru, how do you have your 570's set up. I am also looking a 4 of the 590's.
2 in back, 2 on the sides. Thanks.

We will have very close systems, I have the 990, 7-M-200's, S-100 v4, CC-690,
SVS Ultra/2 and SVS Plus/2

Yes, I have two of the CC590's on the sides and 2 more in the rear. The right and left speakers are SWITCHED in the rears as this is what's recommended.

You mean 4 ADP-590 or do you really use 4 CC-590?

Yes, I have two of the CC590's on the sides and 2 more in the rear. The right and left speakers are SWITCHED in the rears as this is what's recommended.What? I assume that you are referring to the practice of swapping the left and right dipole speakers in the rear when you have dipoles both on the side and rear positions. But first you are saying that you have center speakers (ie CC's). I assume that you did mean ADP-590s which are hybrid dipoles. But the ADP-590's are not manufactured as traditional dipole mirror image pairs. They are not labeled left and right because they are both one or the other. So how can you have them swapped in the rear?

Ed

Yes, I have two of the CC590's on the sides and 2 more in the rear. The right and left speakers are SWITCHED in the rears as this is what's recommended.
As ekb asked, how can you have them switched in the rear but also, who recommended this practice to you?

who recommended this practice to you?This has been widely documented. I think either Dolby or THX first proposed it. The idea is to keep the "facing" drivers between the surrounds and rear surrounds in-phase.

Ed

Yes. What I want to know is if someone at Paradigm or his dealer recommended this to him specifically for his ADP-590's.

This has been widely documented. I think either Dolby or THX first proposed it. The idea is to keep the "facing" drivers between the surrounds and rear surrounds in-phase.

Ed

That makes sense to me. If the side right speaker and the rear right speaker are playing the same material, there will be no bass cancelation. If the right rear speaker and the left rear speaker are playing the same signal, ditto.

Of course the above would apply more to my APD470s, but since the new dipoles have a single bass driver, don't know how much of a difference it would make.

OK just an update of my system
Denon 3805 AVR
Denon 3910 DVD/CD
Velodyne SMS-1
Furman PLH15 Power center
SA 8300 HD Cablebox
Samsung HLN507W DLP TV
Paradigm Studio 40's V.3 with Signature Tweeter upgrades
Paradigm CC V.2
Paradigm Cinema 90's V.3
2 SVS SB12Plus Subs

I have to do a bit tweaking with phase but it sounds great!!
Anyone have any sugestions on Phase with 2 subs ?

Of course the above would apply more to my APD470s, but since the new dipoles have a single bass driver, don't know how much of a difference it would make.The ADPs are not dipoles at low frequencies, even the 470's morph to bipoles. Supposedly the same phase (at mid to high frequencies) for facing drivers has to do with proper imaging.

Ed

Sorry, yes I mistyped. I have ADP-570's on the sides and in the rear. I switched the rears as someone else mentioned due to phase cancellation, etc. There was a big thread on this here last year I believe.

Was wondering what Paradigm owners use for surrounds and in whats their current setup (5.1, 6.1 7.1) ?

ADP's or Bookshelves (Atoms, Minis, 20's etc...) from the Paradigm line?

anyone else care to add? And why you choose one over the other.

i use the 20's mainly due to multichannel audio but since they are 6ft behind me works
great for ht also.

I'll chime in on the rear speaker discussions.

I'll try to be as clear in my explanations as possible, since I'm new to Home Theatres but I just swapped my direct rears for ADP 390's (I could not hear a difference with the 590's).

To get to the point, when watching Batman Begins (as an example) and the bats start swarming around, with my direct 5.1 setup, I did hear bats on my left/right and I had what seemed like surround sound. When switching to the ADP's, now the bats sounded more like they were literally all around me. Yes its more diffused but there is a "wrapping" effect with the sound and you can still localize sound easily. It definitely seems that the movies are mixed for these type's of speakers more than direct ones for rears.
Another point of mine is that direct rears seem fine for people that sit in the "sweet spot" by themselves but if you have a wife/girlfriend that sits right next to you, you can miss some sounds as now (even after calibration) some noises seemed muffled or ones on your side seem very "bright". That problem seems to be gone with ADP's since they are much more diffused.

Since I'm a movie fan they are GREAT, but I noticed for games, they are not bad but the sound on games are not mixed for these. I imagine many "complaints" come from people that like music much more than movies, (although for music I also like them).

To recap:

* Consider your favorite source of sound
* Excellent for movies
* Not bad for music (I actually like it but I will relinquish this to direct speakers assuming they are mixed for those speakers)
* They disappear much easier while still allowing for localized sound
* Seem (to me) to be better for multiple people
* Still easy to place, just like direct rears

These are just my opinions but as a new person to this hobby I have the benefit of not getting wrapped up in speakers/sides being in-phase or out of phase (I'm still trying to understand how that applies to me). All I know is with ADP's movies sound much more like "movies" for me and everyone else involved, while before (and I thought it sounded good) I now realize there was a very harsh cut off between the sounds coming out of the speakers and it was very easy to locate the speakers.

I hope this helps, if not let me know and I can try to clarify more, but understand I'm a "Movie watcher" so thats the angle I'm coming from and I think they add much to my experience.

OK just an update of my system
Denon 3805 AVR
Denon 3910 DVD/CD
Velodyne SMS-1
Furman PLH15 Power center
SA 8300 HD Cablebox
Samsung HLN507W DLP TV
Paradigm Studio 40's V.3 with Signature Tweeter upgrades
Paradigm CC V.2
Paradigm Cinema 90's V.3
2 SVS SB12Plus Subs

I have to do a bit tweaking with phase but it sounds great!!
Anyone have any sugestions on Phase with 2 subs ?
Looks like it's time for a new t.v. stand, is it just the picture or is that one buckling from all the weight? :D

I agree with you on this... For movies, I think the ADP's fit the bill for rears, if your rears are close.

If you have enough distance behind you, they (direct speakers) could possible disappear just fine... If they are closer you will notice them more and rears for movies I have read are mono, not stereo in a 7.1 layout. If your doing alot of gaming, it would be much better to have directs as the sounds are and should be specifically located, like when someone is coming up from you behind right or left, you can tell the difference. Otherwise the ADP's do not allow you to locate those sounds as they smear around out behind you.

I don't play games, so its not an issue for me, I have a single rear ADP firing out of a corner, and it works great for my purposes.

I'll chime in on the rear speaker discussions.

I'll try to be as clear in my explanations as possible, since I'm new to Home Theatres but I just swapped my direct rears for ADP 390's (I could not hear a difference with the 590's).

To get to the point, when watching Batman Begins (as an example) and the bats start swarming around, with my direct 5.1 setup, I did hear bats on my left/right and I had what seemed like surround sound. When switching to the ADP's, now the bats sounded more like they were literally all around me. Yes its more diffused but there is a "wrapping" effect with the sound and you can still localize sound easily. It definitely seems that the movies are mixed for these type's of speakers more than direct ones for rears.
Another point of mine is that direct rears seem fine for people that sit in the "sweet spot" by themselves but if you have a wife/girlfriend that sits right next to you, you can miss some sounds as now (even after calibration) some noises seemed muffled or ones on your side seem very "bright". That problem seems to be gone with ADP's since they are much more diffused.

Since I'm a movie fan they are GREAT, but I noticed for games, they are not bad but the sound on games are not mixed for these. I imagine many "complaints" come from people that like music much more than movies, (although for music I also like them).

To recap:

* Consider your favorite source of sound
* Excellent for movies
* Not bad for music (I actually like it but I will relinquish this to direct speakers assuming they are mixed for those speakers)
* They disappear much easier while still allowing for localized sound
* Seem (to me) to be better for multiple people
* Still easy to place, just like direct rears

These are just my opinions but as a new person to this hobby I have the benefit of not getting wrapped up in speakers/sides being in-phase or out of phase (I'm still trying to understand how that applies to me). All I know is with ADP's movies sound much more like "movies" for me and everyone else involved, while before (and I thought it sounded good) I now realize there was a very harsh cut off between the sounds coming out of the speakers and it was very easy to locate the speakers.

I hope this helps, if not let me know and I can try to clarify more, but understand I'm a "Movie watcher" so thats the angle I'm coming from and I think they add much to my experience.

thank you for your response.

Is it true that Paradigm is having financial problems?

HT 80% and Musci 20%; Enclosed 2300 cubic feet

Toying with option A

5 x Studio 20s and 1 x Kickin Sub (possbily 2)

verses option B

Studio 100 x 2, 20 x 2, 590 x 1, and 1 x Sub

Not getting any feedback in the main forum, so I though I would post here.

Looking to pick up a pair of Paradigm Monitor 9's or 11's (and a CC390 centre) for 99% HT listening.

What it reccomended of those two options?

I have demoed both (in V.5), but was torn between the two.

My room is 25'L X 16'W with 8' ceilings. Seating position essentially cuts room down to 14'L.

I have heard that Monitor 11's v.4 are great for HT - would you reccomend the v.4's over the v.5's for HT? If so I would pick these up on the pre-owned market. Would v.4's timbre match the cc390 centre or would I need to go with a cc370?

Thanks for the feedback.

Looks like it's time for a new t.v. stand, is it just the picture or is that one buckling from all the weight? :D

The TV stand is New Good call may need a brace in the middle for some support :rolleyes:

The ADP-590's are a diapole speaker. Paradigm claims that it doesn't matter that one is out of phase to the front and one is out of phase to the back when used on the side walls. But the speaker can be flipped, so you can control which direction the out of phase drivers are facing.

That being said, in a room that is going to use 4 590s, 2 on the side walls and 2 on the back walls, how would you set them up? If my side speakers have the out of phase driver facing the rear wall, should my rear speakers have the in phase driver facing forward (towards the out of phase driver?) Or vise versa???

Swgiust,
Could you elaborate for me on "flipping" the phase of the drivers? I'm still trying to understand how phasing really affects me and if this is a switch (or something similar) built into this speaker. (Which would lend some weight to the concern of the speakers being in phase).

Also have you auditioned the 390 vs. 590? Are there more features that I passed up on? Of course I can go and trade in for an upgrade but I just wonder what I am missing by sticking with the 390's.

Thanks for any information!

If my side speakers have the out of phase driver facing the rear wall, should my rear speakers have the in phase driver facing forward (towards the out of phase driver?) Or vise versa???Your language is awkward but I think I understood everything you said. The standard practice (using your language) is "vise versa".

Ed

Could you elaborate for me on "flipping" the phase of the drivers? I'm still trying to understand how phasing really affects me and if this is a switch (or something similar) built into this speaker.
Traditionally, dipole speakers were built as mirror image pairs with labels as to which goes on the left side and which one goes on the right side. I believe that the goal was to keep the forward facing drivers in the dipoles to be in-phase with the fronts. However there was a thread on this a while ago where someone was absolutely convinced that it was just the opposite. I thought that it would be a simple matter of finding reliable reference material to settle that issue, but to my surprise I could not find any such technical data.
Anyway, starting with models ADP-390 and 590 and maybe the Sig series, Paradigm has stopped manufacturing their dipole surrounds as mirror images. They claim it doesn't make a difference, and they don't offer any supporting evidence/data/experimental results etc... even though every other dipole from Paradigm and other brands has always been offered as a mirror image pairs. There is no switch on the speakers to reverse the phase of the drivers so that one can be made a left and the other a right. One simple technique to achieve the desired result is to flip one of the speakers up-side-down. I think this is what swgiust was eluding to. But the speaker needs to be designed to be hung up-side-down and the manufacturer needs to identify which one would have to go on the left and right sides. Paradigm has done neither of these 2 things.

Ed

Yeah.... they are designed to go upside down, and you are also correct that they have no identifying marks to tell you which way to maneuver them....

I only use one as a rear so I have nothing to worry about, but it made me seriously scratch my head.. Some documentation would be nice from Paradigm...

Thank you for the information EKB, I thought I read much of this somewhere already but your post clarified it for me 100%.
I guess I have to ask if there is any definitive material that really works the rear speakers with large clarity and motion out there?
With computer speakers they usually have a "bee" or "Helicopter" you can move around the field that should relate to the speakers and you can visually see where the sound is supposed to be coming from. While that may not be possible with a HT, is there something out there that is somewhat similar? Something that really lets you concentrate on the sound for a bit and focus on how it moves/sounds as it passes "around" you?

I have tried this with a few movies but sometimes you hear rear sounds other times not. The ice scene in Titan AE is ok but the sounds are occasional and not sustained long enough, same with Batman Begins. Perhaps someone knows of a movie that someone is talking and it walks around the listener? One of those "spinning" scenes that would emphasize sound moving all around the listener perhaps?

Also I'm sure you guys have taken this into account but on Paradigm's review site it says "Under 150hz the speaker operates in bipole mode, everything over and it works in dipole mode" (Found here (http://www.paradigm.com/en/pdf/reviews/surrounds/adp390_review_59.pdf) ) Does this matter? Is this just PR fluff? I'm too new to know better :D

Yeah.... they are designed to go upside down, It is my understanding that the ADP 590 and 390 are not really designed to be mounted up-side-down. I read that the top and bottom pieces are the same and hence it superficially looks like you can mount it up-side-down, but there is no recess on the bottom like there is on the top. I would think that if they truly were designed to be mounded up-side-down, then Paradigm would have marked right and left orientations and would mention it in the instructions.

Ed

I guess I have to ask if there is any definitive material that really works the rear speakers with large clarity and motion out there?To get 7.1 sound (ie with stereo rears) you need to apply Dolby PLIIx or Logic 7 processing to 2,5 or 6 channel sources. Good demo material has been quoted in threads that deal with 7.1 - but I don't remember the details. Maybe you can search - usually member Sanjay (sdurani) has good comments on the topic.

Also I'm sure you guys have taken this into account but on Paradigm's review site it says "Under 150hz the speaker operates in bipole mode, everything over and it works in dipole mode" (Found here (http://www.paradigm.com/en/pdf/reviews/surrounds/adp390_review_59.pdf) ) Does this matter? Is this just PR fluff? I'm too new to know better :DIt's not PR fluff. If the speaker was full frequency dipole, then the out-of-phase bass from the 2 drivers would cancel and the speaker would sound thin. The hybrid design is a good thing.

Ed

It is my understanding that the ADP 590 and 390 are not really designed to be mounted up-side-down. I read that the top and bottom pieces are the same and hence it superficially looks like you can mount it up-side-down, but there is no recess on the bottom like there is on the top. I would think that if they truly were designed to be mounded up-side-down, then Paradigm would have marked right and left orientations and would mention it in the instructions.

Ed

My experience with mounting the ADP 590 upside down was a failure. The speakers ends began to separate. See thread 4766.

I have not noticed any problems with the new set.

They sound great.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10851662&&#post10851662

Question from a newbie:

I am going to upgrade my speakers, starting with my center channel and front speakers. After looking at a few different brands, I found that the Paradigm Monitor 7 and cc-290 fit perfectly into my budget, but... After reading through a bunch of very informative posts on AVSforums, I think I am having a change of heart and leaning more towards the Studio 20s for front speakers. My question is this: Do I then need to upgrade to the Studio cc-590 center channel, or will the 290 compliment the Studio 20s just fine? The $500 dollar increase switching to the 590 is a tough pill to swallow, especially because it will delay picking up the speakers for a while. The room my set-up will be in is about 12'X24', and the speakers will be used for about 40% music listening and 60%HT. The receiver it's all going into is the Onkyo 805, which is still in it's original box while I figure out which speakers I'm getting.

Thanks for your time.

I'd recommend going for the matching center with the Studio 20s (CC-590) in order to preserve tonal balance. The benefits of going with the Studio series rather than the Monitor series will also carry over this way.

If you really want the Studio 20s, you could also go without a center until you are ready to buy the more expensive one.

Hello guys, I'm beginning to research my Home Theater options.

My original budget including reciever was 1800 to 2000 bucks. However, the options really seem to widen nicely if I put my ceiling in the 2500 to 3k tops area.

Which puts paradigm back on the map for me. I will be listening to a lot of music. Probably a 50/50 mix on the system. I want 5.1 surround sound. At this point I'm having trouble deciding between the monitor 7s and the monitor 9s. My original thoughts were the 9s would give better midrange for music listening. However, I have read that the 9's sound a bit hollow and that the 7s are actually the better tower for music. What are your thoughts on these?

Also, is there a reason to go with the ADP390 over the ADP 190 for my rear surrounds?

Any other suggestions on speakers? How does the Paradigm monitor line compare with the Boston Acoustics VR3 VRC and VRX stuff?

What about comparisons with some of the internet direct brands?

has anybody heard or purchased the signature v2's? i would like to here any opinions. this is the second time i asked this question. got no responses 1'st time. i have s8's and c5. thanks

Perky2

Have not purchased but listened to Paradigm s2 v2. Very Nice :D The salesman did say they take long time to break in. New Berilium (sp)copper tweeter. Koooool


RJ

I just hooked up a pair of studio 100's and a 570 center and an SVS sub...I have a quick question about setting them up.

On my receiver I have an option of setting the speakers to small or large...do you guys generally set these to large? Also if you set them to small what cross over do you usually use with these speakers?

Right now I set them to small with the cross over at 80...when I originally had them set to large my sub was getting no bass at all.

My receiver is a denon 2807.

I just hooked up a pair of studio 100's and a 570 center and an SVS sub...I have a quick question about setting them up.

On my receiver I have an option of setting the speakers to small or large...do you guys generally set these to large? Also if you set them to small what cross over do you usually use with these speakers?

Right now I set them to small with the cross over at 80...when I originally had them set to large my sub was getting no bass at all.

My receiver is a denon 2807.
small and 60

small and 60
For sure always set to small.
Really depends on your environment, taste as well as Subwoofer here...
I have experimented with 60 hz and 80 hz, but its entirely up to you....
Both work well, but both will have different reactions on your listening environment.

I found in my room that setting my xover at 60hz I ended up having a big drop out in FR at the 60 to 70 hz area... but when I switched over to the 80 hz xover I had a completely flat FR and no problems whatsoever...

Every room is different.... I have a Velodyne SMS-1 so I can watch changes made in real time... otherwise you have to use a SPL meter... and plot your room responces... although YMMV

Its all about testing your rooms reaction to your equipment, and the only way to know is to test the rooms response with a SPL meter or a program with a Computer running REW (http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/) setup with a mic or SMS-1. REW is a great program, but requires some work, but well worth it.
A Velodyne SMS-1 is an all in one unit, but is expensive.. also worth it, at the right price... :)

Good luck

Ok, I'm stuck.
I went today to audition a few speakers, i'm almost 100% HT also I returned my JBL's since I was all set to go all Paradigm, of course here goes the problems.

a) My local dealer gave me a bad vibe, all of a sudden today there was no discount price on the speakers (Different rep every time I go in) and it was as if they didn't want to help me.
b) the CC390 was on the floor!
c) the CC290 was up too high!

Arg. Anyway, the 390 sounded good but the 290 sounded VERY bright. On the music and "5th Element" concert tests I had to turn away a few times it was so bright to me. Even my GF said the 390 sounded way better and was way more natural sounding. (The two were in different room's and receivers, is something funny up here?)

The monitor 7's sounded ok, the 9's as if I was listening in a metal room with an echo, and the 11's sounded great. Now we get into the "Just pickup Reference 20's" discussion, but the HT guy was pushing the 60's.

I just want to watch HT movies (so the center I think is the most important) and I already have a HSU 3.3 and Paradigm ADP 390's. The fronts should be fine for the occasional music but I would like to fill out my fronts/center and hopefully when I get a larger room (say 20x25 ish, + or -5ft?) the speakers can fill that room also.

Any suggestions? I'm thinking you guys might suggest get the Reference 20's or 40's and the CC590 or 690. While I can probably swing it, I'm thinking since its all just for movies I can stay within the Monitor line.
Is a set of 11's and CC390 really a bad combo? Why the upgrade suggestion to the book reference? And if I do that the Monitor CC won't match the sound right? All of a sudden its a huge price difference.

/signed "About to sell all my speakers and slap on a set of headphones" :D

**forgot to mention this is on a Yamaha RX-V661 if that makes a difference.

I just hooked up a pair of studio 100's and a 570 center and an SVS sub...I have a quick question about setting them up.

On my receiver I have an option of setting the speakers to small or large...do you guys generally set these to large? Also if you set them to small what cross over do you usually use with these speakers?

Right now I set them to small with the cross over at 80...when I originally had them set to large my sub was getting no bass at all.

My receiver is a denon 2807.

Try both and see what sounds better to you.

If large resulted in no bass it sounds like small is the way to go in your system.

I listened to the Monitor 11's with the 390 and thought it sounded great... I didn't really care for any of the speakers below the 11's, but thats just my ears...

I know its a bunch more money, but personally if you can listen to the Studios next to the Monitors, do it... you will see why people stretch their budget for them.. A set of Studio 40's and a CC-690 will be a fantastic front and will have tons of power.

If you do end up with studio's over monitors, you might want to keep in the back of your mind, the Studio's perform better with a little more power... so a good amp to drive them in the future as well...

bayn-
Studio 40's with stands are almost as much as Studio 60's. To stay closer to your budget I would suggest Studio 20's and a CC-590. You have great sub, the 20's will fill your room and IMO the 590 is far superior to the monitor centers. As you said, the center is the most important speaker in an HT set-up.

No matter what you get, I would agree with Warp that a good 200-300wpc is in your future.

bayn-
Studio 40's with stands are almost as much as Studio 60's.

Only if you go with Paradigms ridiculously expensive stands... which are very nice, but most dealers aren't flexible on the price. Also some found the mid bass on the 60's to be a bit bloaty, where the 40's were quite a bit tighter...

Less expensive stands can come from places like Racksandstands.com or standsandmounts.com

If your going to be spending the money, I would make the dealer move the speakers into the same room if they are not already, so you can do a side by side measurement. They should be more then happy to do this for you, a small amount of effort for all the money you are spending here... I would want to hear the Studio 40's next to the Monitor 11's again to see how they sound different, and whether they are worth the extra money. Remember you are using a good sub xover at 80hz or so, so the lows are not the priority.

I wonder if anyone one knows which verison of the Monitor 9s or Studio 20s would be better to get. I never heard either of them but am sure they sound good. Are the studios really worth it. I will be doing HT 30% Games 50% and Music 20%.

Ok, I'm stuck.
I went today to audition a few speakers, i'm almost 100% HT also I returned my JBL's since I was all set to go all Paradigm, of course here goes the problems.

a) My local dealer gave me a bad vibe, all of a sudden today there was no discount price on the speakers (Different rep every time I go in) and it was as if they didn't want to help me.
b) the CC390 was on the floor!
c) the CC290 was up too high!

Arg. Anyway, the 390 sounded good but the 290 sounded VERY bright. On the music and "5th Element" concert tests I had to turn away a few times it was so bright to me. Even my GF said the 390 sounded way better and was way more natural sounding. (The two were in different room's and receivers, is something funny up here?)

The monitor 7's sounded ok, the 9's as if I was listening in a metal room with an echo, and the 11's sounded great. Now we get into the "Just pickup Reference 20's" discussion, but the HT guy was pushing the 60's.

I just want to watch HT movies (so the center I think is the most important) and I already have a HSU 3.3 and Paradigm ADP 390's. The fronts should be fine for the occasional music but I would like to fill out my fronts/center and hopefully when I get a larger room (say 20x25 ish, + or -5ft?) the speakers can fill that room also.

Any suggestions? I'm thinking you guys might suggest get the Reference 20's or 40's and the CC590 or 690. While I can probably swing it, I'm thinking since its all just for movies I can stay within the Monitor line.
Is a set of 11's and CC390 really a bad combo? Why the upgrade suggestion to the book reference? And if I do that the Monitor CC won't match the sound right? All of a sudden its a huge price difference.

/signed "About to sell all my speakers and slap on a set of headphones" :D

**forgot to mention this is on a Yamaha RX-V661 if that makes a difference.
make sure u get the ultimate ears super.fi pro 5's. makes paradigms sound like my clock radio.

make sure u get the ultimate ears super.fi pro 5's. makes paradigms sound like my clock radio.
i own both and to have the ue beat out the studio's would make me think the
player or rec are of very low quality.

Thanks for the replies guys,
I have not tried the studio line yet, and I was planning on getting an amp (After I finished selecting speakers). As for the sub comments, yeah I have been specific in listening to just the speakers, no subs (or centers) so I can really focus on just the specific speakers.

Also I gotta ask, how long do you audition speakers for?
I think my dealer is getting upset :) The last time I was there I picked up a pair of 390's so its not like I am freeloading but I'm wondering if they don't like my auditioning. Personally I'm not letting go of 2000 dollars + without a little seat time on the speakers but I don't want to overstay my welcome if I'm auditioning "wrong". Also I never bump into people auditioning speakers, it seems they kind of buy quickly and zip out.

I've been there, this time, once so far for about a 1/2hr to bounce between these speakers I posted (and am going back for the reference line). Wrap it up? Or plonk down for ample seat time? (Which is about how long on average?)

Sit there and listen to as much of your own music as you damn well please. That's why they have them set up. It's not like you're tying up a salesperson just sitting there listening to tunes. I spent several 2-3 hour sessions at my local dealer before pulling the trigger on my 100s.

J.

:D
I like you guys, you're like a virtual audio gang...

I think I WILL go in and pull up a chair for a while!

How much has anyone paid for them?

the s series i think set me back a little over a hundred it was in my speaker deal.

Finally recieved my S-100's yesterday, set them up with a cc-690. Very pleased.
Only spent 30min listening, but it's a definate upgrade from my Infinitys. Can't wait till their broke in.

:D
I like you guys, you're like a virtual audio gang...

I think I WILL go in and pull up a chair for a while!
Damn straight! And you tell 'em you'll move when you're damn well and ready, too!:D

J.

I could use some advice from current Paradigm owners.

Today I auditioned the Paradigm Signature S8 speakers and I was really impressed with how they sounded (after listening to them for about half an hour). Unfortunately, they are way above my budget and I'm looking more at the Studio 100's as a possibility to purchase for my 5.1/7.1 HT surround setup. Of course the listening room for the S8 was excellent but the room the Studio 100's were in was less than ideal. Also, I was only able to listen to a pair (L and R) and so I'm left to imagine what 5.1 or 7.1 might sound like with any of the Paradigms.

The good news (for Paradigm) is that I was very impressed by the S8 and I also thought the 100's sounded very good even under fairly poor conditions. The bad news is I wasn't able to hear enough to convince me to buy them for my HT. I also wasn't able to listen to the Paradigm sub, the Studio 100 center or the dipole surrounds.

My question for you owners is do you think the 100's (and matching center) would form the basis of a really good 5.1 HT setup (20 x 23 dedicated HT) or do you think for the application one of the lower end models would do just as well? I know this is subjective but at least I know a lot of you here have lived with the various Paradigm models. Now I don't expect any of you to tell me what I like but rather I'd like to get some help determining what will be the best options for me to pursue as far as looking to audition other Paradigm speakers (this will likely involve many phone calls and long drives to far-away cities so I'd like to narrow the field).

The salesman at the boutique I visited also recommended the ARCAM A90 amp (over a Denon 3808 or 4608) and I'm curious of others with Paradigms might agree or disagree. Of course I'll audition several before buying but again I'd like to narrow down the options to those most likely to pay off.

He also recommended doing a 5.1 surround system with the Paradigm dipole on-wall's mounted to the REAR of the room. This of course is heretical blasphemy (to some I suppose) from what I've read but I wonder if others have tried this setup?

My overall speaker budget is about $6-8K.

Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

I could use some advice from current Paradigm owners.

Today I auditioned the Paradigm Signature S8 speakers and I was really impressed with how they sounded (after listening to them for about half an hour). Unfortunately, they are way above my budget and I'm looking more at the Studio 100's as a possibility to purchase for my 5.1/7.1 HT surround setup. Of course the listening room for the S8 was excellent but the room the Studio 100's were in was less than ideal. Also, I was only able to listen to a pair (L and R) and so I'm left to imagine what 5.1 or 7.1 might sound like with any of the Paradigms.

The salesman at the boutique I visited also recommended...

He also recommended...

Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

Recommend to the salesman that he move the 100s into the room with the S8s and hook them up for you to listen to in there.

Recommend to the salesman that he move the 100s into the room with the S8s and hook them up for you to listen to in there.

I was just about to say the same thing... at one place I auditioned they had the 100's in a 5.1 setup, total theater room and the guy had no idea how to remove the crossover on the Anthem AVM. I politely asked him to bring them over to the 2 channel room, where they had the other Studio speakers, and he was glad to oblige. He also politely closed the door on the way out, as I entered the twilight zone of reference level listening.

I could use some advice from current Paradigm owners.

Today I auditioned the Paradigm Signature S8 speakers and I was really impressed with how they sounded (after listening to them for about half an hour). Unfortunately, they are way above my budget and I'm looking more at the Studio 100's as a possibility to purchase for my 5.1/7.1 HT surround setup. Of course the listening room for the S8 was excellent but the room the Studio 100's were in was less than ideal. Also, I was only able to listen to a pair (L and R) and so I'm left to imagine what 5.1 or 7.1 might sound like with any of the Paradigms.

The good news (for Paradigm) is that I was very impressed by the S8 and I also thought the 100's sounded very good even under fairly poor conditions. The bad news is I wasn't able to hear enough to convince me to buy them for my HT. I also wasn't able to listen to the Paradigm sub, the Studio 100 center or the dipole surrounds.

My question for you owners is do you think the 100's (and matching center) would form the basis of a really good 5.1 HT setup (20 x 23 dedicated HT) or do you think for the application one of the lower end models would do just as well? I know this is subjective but at least I know a lot of you here have lived with the various Paradigm models. Now I don't expect any of you to tell me what I like but rather I'd like to get some help determining what will be the best options for me to pursue as far as looking to audition other Paradigm speakers (this will likely involve many phone calls and long drives to far-away cities so I'd like to narrow the field).

The salesman at the boutique I visited also recommended the ARCAM A90 amp (over a Denon 3808 or 4608) and I'm curious of others with Paradigms might agree or disagree. Of course I'll audition several before buying but again I'd like to narrow down the options to those most likely to pay off.

He also recommended doing a 5.1 surround system with the Paradigm dipole on-wall's mounted to the REAR of the room. This of course is heretical blasphemy (to some I suppose) from what I've read but I wonder if others have tried this setup?

My overall speaker budget is about $6-8K.

Any input is appreciated. Thanks!
i have the 100's use both ht and for music have no regrets would have liked to have the sigs but was not in the budget went with 20's for surround because of multi-ch music and the servo-15 is a beast.keep in mine the studios and sigs like power to shine i would say at least a clean
honest 125wpc .

Just purchased the S-100's and CC-690 center. Haven't spent a huge amount of time with them, but am very happy with the sound I am getting. This is my 4th home theater upgrade, I am replacing some very good Infinity Interludes. The Paradigms are better. I also looked at the top of the line Paradigms, price was just too high. Also shop around, I was able to get better than 20% off list from a local authorized dealer.

Today I auditioned the Paradigm Signature S8 speakers and I was really impressed with how they sounded (after listening to them for about half an hour). Unfortunately, they are way above my budget and I'm looking more at the Studio 100's as a possibility to purchase for my 5.1/7.1 HT surround setup.
If you liked the way the S8 sounded but don't have the budget, consider the S4. They're just a bit more than the 100's.

Since you're doing this mostly for HT where you'll fill the bottom end in with a sub anyway, it makes perfect sense to go for smaller speakers in the front. You'll still get that silky smooth sound that you liked in the S8.

kal

Our HT room is roughly 23' x 14'. The system consists of S2's and C3 up front with two Seismic 10's. All Studio 20's V3 in the surrounds/rears. These are all being driven through Anthem's AVM50 and PVA7. I use the system for music as well as HT. My previous main speakers were Studio 60, V3 (which I currently have for sale). The S2's are currently on loan from my dealer because I was never quite satisfied with the 60's for 2 channel stereo listening. For my taste, they portrayed a darker laid back presence, which would be fine for many, but since this is a second system, I was continually comparing it to our other system which has a brighter, more detailed sound. However, for HT, they were absolutely incredible. Because of my yearning for a stereo sound that appealed to my tastes, I borrowed the S2's from my dealer. I was initially concerned by their size in a room this large. Any concern was quickly alleviated. These are the most phenominal speaker I've heard, and I've heard many. (I have B&W 804's in my other system). I would put the S2's up against them anytime. I quickly placed an order for S2 and C3 V2 speakers. I'm only hoping the V2's sound as incredible as the V1. They should be in tomorrow (July 12).

One thing I will mention. If anyone is considering the S4, which I must admit, I have not heard, check out and compare the low end frequency response (FR) of the S4 and the S2's. You will notice that the S2's have a wider FR, dipping to 52Hz vs the S4's 56Hz. I initially beleived this to be a typo, but upon contacting Paradigm, they informed me that it is a function of internal volume to the #of drivers. So, the S2's have an internal volume of 0.48 cf/1 driver = 0.48 cf, whereas the S4 is 0.75 cf/2 drivers = 0.375 cf. Because the S2 has more volume per driver, it is supposedly capable of a lower frequency response. Kind of interesting when you do this calculation with the other speakers as well.

So, my point in this long preamble is twofold:

1. Those considering a larger speaker due to room size, don't be fooled by the dimunitive size of the S2's. They will easily fill a medium sized room with a very substantial sound.

2. Those considering a larger speaker for additional base, check out the S2's and fully compare them first. They certainly don't have gyprock cracking base, but if in a HT setup, most will have a sub in any case, and there is no point going larger (IMHO).

With the above points being considered, if you are considering the Studio 60's or 100's, you are not that far from the price of the S2's.

.......and they are such a beautiful speaker. (I've ordered piano black)

Now I think I may have to replace the 804's. Your wive's should be very pleased with the size and appearance as well. I know mine is. Another bonus.

ps. If anyone has heard the V2's, I would be interested in what you think. I'll be posting my synopsis after mine arrive.

Thanks for that neet summary of the S2's.

My next system or replacements will be including auditions of the S6's and S8's.

I have others in mind but I truly am very happy with the $$ I spent on my Studio's.

Now I think I may have to replace the 804's. Your wive's should be very pleased with the size and appearance as well. I know mine is. Another bonus.Not all. My wife hates small stand-mounted speakers and much prefers full size speakers.

Not all. My wife hates small stand-mounted speakers and much prefers full size speakers.Mine's the same way. Hence the S8's in my setup even though they're used 100% for HT. (S2's would have worked fine). Must have something to do with the name kal... :)

Kal ... err.. I mean kal

Recommend to the salesman that he move the 100s into the room with the S8s and hook them up for you to listen to in there.
Thanks, I think I will do just that. I initially didn't want to bother since I wasn't able to hear the sub/surrounds but hell, I might as well ask him to setup the whole system for me, if the sale depends on it I bet he will. Good advice.

i have the 100's use both ht and for music have no regrets would have liked to have the sigs but was not in the budget went with 20's for surround because of multi-ch music and the servo-15 is a beast.keep in mine the studios and sigs like power to shine i would say at least a clean
honest 125wpc .
Do you think a consumer level (i.e. Denon 3808 or 4308) could adequately power your setup with that servo-15? I know it's not ideal (and never is) to go with just a reciever but I'm wondering of the investment in a pre/pro and amp is worth it considering it will mean I can put less towards the speakers. If you don't mind me asking what are you using to power your setup and are you happy with it?

If you liked the way the S8 sounded but don't have the budget, consider the S4. They're just a bit more than the 100's.

Since you're doing this mostly for HT where you'll fill the bottom end in with a sub anyway, it makes perfect sense to go for smaller speakers in the front. You'll still get that silky smooth sound that you liked in the S8.

kal
Now I see what you mean - the pricing is close. Do you think (or know) if the build quality on the signature series is substantially better than the studio? I'm assuming that's a resounding yes. My concern is that my current HT setup uses Vienna Acoustics Haydn bookshelf speakers as L & R fronts and although they are excellent speakers I feel they just don't give the oooomph that a larger floor standing speaker would. That's a big part of the reason I'm replacing my audio gear (as the VA/Rel sub setup is retired to 2 ch listening in my man-cave). I'm assuming those S4's will probably do a much better job than the Haydn's but that is my worry. I'll definitely try to audition them... thanks for the advice.


1. Those considering a larger speaker due to room size, don't be fooled by the dimunitive size of the S2's. They will easily fill a medium sized room with a very substantial sound.
Thanks so much for that post, very interesting and informative. If I'm concerned about the S4's being too small I'm mortified by the thought of going to the S2's. However, you do make a strong argument for considering them. I'm really going to have to audition them as well. If they're as powerful as you say that would be fantastic. Since my speakers will be disguised with audio fabric (hiding the speaker placement in the front of the room (on the sides and under the 120" screen) I'll unfortunately never be able to enjoy the beauty of those cabinets!

The one concern I have with going to one of the Signature series (S2 or S4) is that I then have to invest in a more expensive center, and sub as well (or presumably I should to do justice to the S fronts). Also, I'm assuming the S2 or S4 would demand the use of a much more expensive amp setup than I could get away with in the Studio series. Perhaps that's true with either speaker line but I suspect even more so with the Signature line?

Thanks for the great responses to all!

Let us please keep the punctuation proper here Kal, errr I mean kal... hheheheh

It really says alot to me that both of you Kal's like the Paradigm Sigs...
I know that Kal Rubinson has the B&W 802D's

But I think the Sigs are absolutely beautiful looking speakers... Some of the best on the market...

I too would love to hear the difference of what people think between the .v1 sigs and .v2 sigs... Curious how much improvement was made...

Bluemark, please come back and give us your thoughts on your new speakers.

Warp

Well guys I listened to the Paradigm stuff today at a local audio store.

I heard the Titan Monitor (leaning towards that for my rears if I go paradigm), I heard the 7's, the 9's the 11's and the Studio 100s. The 100's were of course the best sounding.

I listened to all of them in the same room on the same equipment to try and get a good idea of how they all sounded. The dealer also had AB switching setup so I could bounce between a host of speakers at any given time. My favorite was the Studio 100 but its wayyy out of my price range. Out of the monitor line I liked the Monitor 9 v.5 the most. It was a good sounding speaker with good depth and imaging. The mids were much more pronounced than on the 7's and they weren't bottom heavy like the 11's.



Have any of you guys compared the paradigm 9s directly with anything from Swan? Also do most dealers haggle a little bit on price?

Mine's the same way. Hence the S8's in my setup even though they're used 100% for HT. (S2's would have worked fine). Must have something to do with the name kal... :)

Kal ... err.. I mean kal
Sorry, my name isn't Kal but my wife agrees with you both nevertheless. :)

In our new HT however she wanted them hidden completely so we're trying the fronts hidden (speaker transparent cloth). I hope that works out well... we had a false wall made at the front end of the theater and intend to cut-out the areas we will put speakers and then will cover with the cloth. I've seen it done in botiques and it seems to work well. There's definitely something to be said about big sound that appears to come right out of the wall. Hope it works out nicely.

Warp:

I certainly will once they are broken in.

Now I see what you mean - the pricing is close. Do you think (or know) if the build quality on the signature series is substantially better than the studio?Substantially is a very subjective word. Is the built quality better? I think so. Does it make a difference to the sound quality. Hard to say. To me it's likely more the better parts/drivers/bracing/crossover that makes a difference in sound quality.

If by 'build quality' you mean the look and feel, then yes, you'll notice a difference. Take a look at both up close and you'll see what I mean. Most people won't care about this. As long as the speakers aren't going to fall apart, who cares how 'fancy' they look? In my HT my S8's are soon going to be wrapped in speaker grill cloth and pretty much invisible, hiding all that nice wood finish. (But then, I didn't buy them for how they looked - it's all about the sound).

kal

Let us please keep the punctuation proper here Kal, errr I mean kal... hheheheh We try.

It really says alot to me that both of you Kal's like the Paradigm Sigs...
I know that Kal Rubinson has the B&W 802D'sThat's in one system. Studio/60s in the other. But.........................S6s on the way. I'll comment then.

Substancially is a very subjective work. Is the built quality better? I think so. Does it make a difference to the sound quality. Hard to say. To me it's likely more the better parts/drivers/bracing/crossover that makes a difference in sound quality.

If by 'build quality' you mean the look and feel, then yes, you'll notice a difference. Take a look at both up close and you'll see what I mean. Most people won't care about this. As long as the speakers aren't going to fall apart, who cares how 'fancy' they look? In my HT my S8's are soon going to be wrapped in speaker grill cloth and pretty much invisible, hiding all that nice wood finish. (But then, I didn't buy them for how they looked - it's all about the sound).

kal
Sorry, yes I know it's a very subjective term but then most things are in this realm. I did see what you mean by the up-close look of the two and there's no doubt the Signature series excells in that case (no pun intended).

By "build quality" I actually meant in more general terms... meaning superior quality components and parts (including drivers and crossovers) as well as the "look and feel." Basically I was asking if there are objective characteristics of the Signatures that would indicate that they may be better built/designed?

We try.

That's in one system. Studio/60s in the other. But.........................S6s on the way. I'll comment then.


Sweet, Im dying to hear what YOU thing about the S6's....

Im assuming this won't be a full blown review, or will it.... Its really nice they finally came out with an in-betweener speaker... the S6's should really fill the bill...

I take it that you are replacing the Studio 60's with the S6's... Are you going with 3 of them on the front stage? or did you get the C5 for the center...?

Im curious about the UN-OBTANIUM tweeter or whatever they are calling this one...

Not to beat a dead horse, I just wanted to make sure I was understanding the responses 100%. I currently have 4 ADP-470's (v3), the rears are not switched. The rears need to be switched to be in phase? Both my dealer and paradigm claimed this was not the case, but I am more inclined to listen to those on an audio forum. I am only triple asking for confirmation because it honestly took me about an hour to mount each speaker. I just wanted to be sure before going through that hell again.

Sweet, Im dying to hear what YOU thing about the S6's....

Im assuming this won't be a full blown review, or will it.... Its really nice they finally came out with an in-betweener speaker... the S6's should really fill the bill...

I take it that you are replacing the Studio 60's with the S6's... Are you going with 3 of them on the front stage? or did you get the C5 for the center...?

Im curious about the UN-OBTANIUM tweeter or whatever they are calling this one...Full 2channel review. Replacing the Studio/60s is not contemplated but you never know.................

Not to beat a dead horse, I just wanted to make sure I was understanding the responses 100%. I currently have 4 ADP-470's (v3), the rears are not switched. The rears need to be switched to be in phase? Both my dealer and paradigm claimed this was not the case, but I am more inclined to listen to those on an audio forum. I am only triple asking for confirmation because it honestly took me about an hour to mount each speaker. I just wanted to be sure before going through that hell again.The switched recommendation looks like the attached figure. The goal is to keep the same phase drivers facing each other.

Ed

The switched recommendation looks like the attached figure. The goal is to keep the same phase drivers facing each other.

Ed
that diagram is interesting, thanks.

By "build quality" I actually meant in more general terms... meaning superior quality components and parts (including drivers and crossovers) as well as the "look and feel." Basically I was asking if there are objective characteristics of the Signatures that would indicate that they may be better built/designed?I would say yes - that's the whole general principle behind the Sig's - that is, taking the studio's to the 'next level'. Paradigm wanted to throw out some of the rules and build speakers where cost didn't have as much a role in the outcome. Better parts, better tolerance parts, more bracing, curved boxes, etc. All the things that cost money/time/etc.

The best part of course is that eventually all this technology trickles down to the Studio line... we're already seeing that with a simplifieid version of the Sig v.1 tweeters in the new v.4 Studios.

kal

The switched recommendation looks like the attached figure. The goal is to keep the same phase drivers facing each other.

Ed

Thanks, the diagram really helped. I guess I am a visual guy. Looks like I have some speaker remounting to do. On a side note.......my dealer got my Servo-15 in today. I am like a kid at Christmas.

Does anyone know the box (not just the speaker) dimension of a CC690? I would like to bring one back with me when I fly back to Asia, but am not sure if its size/weight is suitable. The airline limit is 62 linear (H + W + D) inches, and 70 lbs. My guess is that it's borderline...

Also, is the packaging of Paradigm speakers well enough that you would trust the airline to check it?

I would say yes - that's the whole general principle behind the Sig's - that is, taking the studio's to the 'next level'. Paradigm wanted to throw out some of the rules and build speakers where cost didn't have as much a role in the outcome. Better parts, better tolerance parts, more bracing, curved boxes, etc. All the things that cost money/time/etc.

The best part of course is that eventually all this technology trickles down to the Studio line... we're already seeing that with a simplifieid version of the Sig v.1 tweeters in the new v.4 Studios.

kal
Thanks for that.... I suspected as much but it's nice to hear confirmation. Budget permitting (and WAF on said budget) I'm going to strongly consider jumping into the Signature line.

Also, is the packaging of Paradigm speakers well enough that you would trust the airline to check it?
Unless it's double or triple boxed, I wouldn't trust one of those gorillas with anything like that (my apologies to all you baggage manglers...er, handlers out there). Anyone who's stepped off a plane on the tarmac has clearly witnessed the reckless abandon and brutality with which those guys handle luggage. Maybe buy your CC a seat next to you? :D

J.

Quick question- I am about to purchase a 5.1 system for 75% HT use and 25% music. I cant decide between the studio 100's or the studio 60's for the fronts. I am using a pioneer elite 84 with 140 watts/channel. Is that sufficient power to make the 100's sound good, or would the 60's be a better match. The room is a med sized room (12x22). The 100's sound better to my ears in the store, but I don't want to spend the extra money just to find out that I have to buy an amp to make them sound good at home. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Does anyone know the box (not just the speaker) dimension of a CC690? I would like to bring one back with me when I fly back to Asia, but am not sure if its size/weight is suitable. The airline limit is 62 linear (H + W + D) inches, and 70 lbs. My guess is that it's borderline...

The CC-690 weighs 69lbs according to Paradigms website. You can go over the dimension and weight limit, it will just cost extra to check the box.

Quick question- I am about to purchase a 5.1 system for 75% HT use and 25% music. I cant decide between the studio 100's or the studio 60's for the fronts. I am using a pioneer elite 84 with 140 watts/channel. Is that sufficient power to make the 100's sound good, or would the 60's be a better match. The room is a med sized room (12x22). The 100's sound better to my ears in the store, but I don't want to spend the extra money just to find out that I have to buy an amp to make them sound good at home. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

What is your dealer using to power the 100's? Take your Pioneer to your dealer, hook it up and see how it sounds. As for my experience, my 100's sound much better since I went from 110wpc to 380wpc.

EDIT- As Warp says below, the improvement is much more noticeable at higher volume. And I do like it loud.

I agree with the # guy....

These speakers sound much better with a higher powered amp, but remember that at lower volumes, one would be hard pressed to notice the difference.

If you listen at loud levels, then I would definitely be considering a good amp that has high power and is measured with all channels running, receivers only measure those #'s with 1 channel running.

Im running a Rotel RMB-1095 at 200x5, and it works great for me.

Thanks for that.... I suspected as much but it's nice to hear confirmation. Budget permitting (and WAF on said budget) I'm going to strongly consider jumping into the Signature line.Yep. That's what I did. I went from early to late 90's versions of Paradigms all around from back before they had different 'lines' (fronts were 11se's) to Signature S8/C5/ADP. A huge jump. WAF only lets me do this once every 20 years so I had to make sure to get something I could live with for quite some time. :)

kal

Thanks for the replies. Here's another one for you: If I went with the studio 100's and decided that I need an amp, which I probably will, is it a dumb idea to amp just the front channels with say a rotel rb-1080 (200x2), and run the adp's and the cc590 from the pioneer? Or would I be better off with a multichannel amp(rmb-1095) to run the center and surrounds as well. Sorry for the stupidity, but I am trying to learn as I go. This is the first real HT I have put together. Thanks again

Thanks for the replies. Here's another one for you: If I went with the studio 100's and decided that I need an amp, which I probably will, is it a dumb idea to amp just the front channels with say a rotel rb-1080 (200x2), and run the adp's and the cc590 from the pioneer? Or would I be better off with a multichannel amp(rmb-1095) to run the center and surrounds as well. Sorry for the stupidity, but I am trying to learn as I go. This is the first real HT I have put together. Thanks again
i would go for the 5ch amp for the simple reason if you decide to purchase a pre-pro
later you are set and it will keep the box clutter down.

I dunno...I might suggest just picking up a really nice 2-channel amp for the fronts and let 'em sing! Let the AVR do the rest with ease and worry about the future when you get there. I'd rather spend the cash on a really nice 2-channel amp than compromise for a decent 5-channel that you don't really need. If you opt for separates in the future, you can always put your 2-channel amp in a secondary 2-channel system.

J.

Quick question- I am about to purchase a 5.1 system for 75% HT use and 25% music. I cant decide between the studio 100's or the studio 60's for the fronts. I am using a pioneer elite 84 with 140 watts/channel. Is that sufficient power to make the 100's sound good, or would the 60's be a better match. The room is a med sized room (12x22). The 100's sound better to my ears in the store, but I don't want to spend the extra money just to find out that I have to buy an amp to make them sound good at home. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

In my experience a high-powered amp is not needed to achieve very loud (and clean) volumes with the Paradigm speakers. I ran a full Signature set-up (S8's, C3, and ADPs) off of a Denon 5800 and was able to reach 110 dB at 1M with the S8' alone. This is ear-bleed territory. I may have even been able to go higher, but there is no way I would ever actually listen to music or movies this loud so why go there.

It all comes down to speaker sensitivity and impedance. The 100's have a sensitivity rating of 91 dB (in room) for 1 watt @ 1 meter. If you sit 9 feet away, it will only take about 2 watts to reach 91 dB (moderately loud) with a pair of 100's. The loudest I like to listen to music in stereo is 94-98 dB (and this is LOUD). To achieve that level with just the L / R Studio 100's, it would only take roughly 10 watts. Add a powered sub to the mix, and you gain even more headroom and you can reach even higher peak dB's.

Yes, the 100's dip below 4 Ohms in a narrow range in the upper bass, but again, based on my experience described above, this does not appear to present a problem to today's higher-end receivers.

Also keep in mind that going from 140 watts to 200 watts only gives you a gain of less than 2 dB of max output. I highly doubt you will ever use it, unless you fancy hearing loss.

Oh, and Pioneer's wattage ratings for their Elite line is for all channels driven. You only see the 1 channel figures on really cheap gear.

With that said, buy the Pioneer AVR and worry about the amp later. Don't be afraid to return the external amp if you find that you really don't need it.

In my experience a high-powered amp is not needed to achieve very loud (and clean) volumes with the Paradigm speakers. I ran a full Signature set-up (S8's, C3, and ADPs) off of a Denon 5800 and was able to reach 110 dB at 1M with the S8' alone. This is ear-bleed territory. I may have even been able to go higher, but there is no way I would ever actually listen to music or movies this loud so why go there.

It all comes down to speaker sensitivity and impedance. The 100's have a sensitivity rating of 91 dB (in room) for 1 watt @ 1 meter. If you sit 9 feet away, it will only take about 2 watts to reach 91 dB (moderately loud) with a pair of 100's. The loudest I like to listen to music in stereo is 94-98 dB (and this is LOUD). To achieve that level with just the L / R Studio 100's, it would only take roughly 10 watts. Add a powered sub to the mix, and you gain even more headroom and you can reach even higher peak dB's.

Yes, the 100's dip below 4 Ohms in a narrow range in the upper bass, but again, based on my experience described above, this does not appear to present a problem to today's higher-end receivers.

Also keep in mind that going from 140 watts to 200 watts only gives you a gain of less than 2 dB of max output. I highly doubt you will ever use it, unless you fancy hearing loss.

Oh, and Pioneer's wattage ratings for their Elite line is for all channels driven. You only see the 1 channel figures on really cheap gear.

With that said, buy the Pioneer AVR and worry about the amp later. Don't be afraid to return the external amp if you find that you really don't need it.
i agree with what you said providing the room is not real large and the seating posistion is not real far away and the model rec that you are using is a flagship as in
most flagships the power amps are generous i also run one but the average to mid
level rec might strain on loud dynamic scenes or music with the 100's.

New question - has anyone heard both the Studio 100s and the Monitor Audio GR60? I have been saving pennies for awhile to upgrade from my Studio 60s to 100s. The 60s don't really seem convincing to me in a large space (16 x 20 x 8 with large openings into adjacent rooms). But now I see that some MA dealers are stuck with discontinued GR60 stock and you can get them NIB for $2K (originally $4K). The 100s and GR60s have similar cabinet sizes, and the GR60 seems to have a driver config similar to the 100v2s. Problem is the dealers are about 1000 miles apart so it's difficult to audition them. Could anyone who's heard them both please comment on the comparison? Thx.

I would take a GR60 any day of the week, I think they sound great but I couldn't justify the non-discounted price. Their finish is beautiful.... I love the look of them...

One problem to note... as been covered here in many many threads, is the design of their CC.... MTM design... they tend to turn away some enthusiasts.

I love my Paradigm CC-690.. better design in a needless to say compromising speaker layout...

Hey, maybe you could get 3 MA - GR60's for your front stage if they are that desperate to move product, which is the ideal front layout.... :)

Good luck...

I'm trying to visualize a GR60 laying on its side in my AV rack. Thanks Warpdrv - very helpful. I think I'll get two of them anyway.

I'm trying to visualize a GR60 laying on its side in my AV rack. Thanks Warpdrv - very helpful. I think I'll get two of them anyway.


HA HA>... good one... I meant 3 standing up... but as most people can't accommodate that layout.... the inception of the inferior Center Channel Design.. :)

HA HA>... good one... I meant 3 standing up... but as most people can't accommodate that layout.... the inception of the inferior Center Channel Design.. :)
considering they say in the speaker setup its best for the l&r to have a foot and
a half from the side walls laying a tower on its side would probably sound worse
than a dedicated center.

Thanks for all the input fellas. Since the room is not that large (12x22x7) and the elite is running 140 watts by all channels driven, I think I am gonna get the 100's and give them a shot. If I am dissatisfied, a Rotel would be a great Christmas present this year.

Unfortunately, like many people I have a budget to allocate. So far I've decided to stick my money into the best 2-channel plus a sub that I can afford. Seems like some number of HT investors could accomodate a set up of towers on the ends and a matching bookshelf in the middle below their set though - Like 2 Studio 100s and a Studio 20. I presume that configuration has been nixed for some reason I wouldn't know about though.

Thanks for all the input fellas. Since the room is not that large (12x22x7) and the elite is running 140 watts by all channels driven, I think I am gonna get the 100's and give them a shot. If I am dissatisfied, a Rotel would be a great Christmas present this year.
great choice and after all your room and your level that you listen at so it will
ultimately be your decision on the sound i think you will be fine .

I just purchased a pair of Studio 60.4s and a CC590.4. I have owned the following Speakers...
Paradigm Atoms
Paradigm Titans
Paradigm Phantoms (all the above are circa early 90's)
Paradigm Monitor 7.3s
Paradigm Studio 20.1s
Paradigm Studio 60.2s
Polk RTi8s
B&W 705s
Klipsch RF82s
...I got them home last night and expected to be happy. I am euphoric. I woke my wife out of bed so she could hear them. I have driven my speakers with various Receivers (Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer Elite, Sony ES), Separates (Adcom, Rotel, NAD) and have used various wires (MIT, Monster). My current set up is an Onkyo 805 with Audioquest Slate Bi-wire. Incidently, this was through Apple TV at 320kps. My other sources have been everything from a Linn Turntable to DVD-Audio/SACD. I still have a 222ES SACD player. I will post more in the future. I just thought for those of us that are "chasing the dragon" when it comes to our hobby, it's nice to be completely floored with a product's performance once in a blue moon. I can't wait for these to break in! I am playing the XLO Reference CD in 5 Channel Stereo to speed up the process through the day. I currently have my kids watching the Backyardigans through them. :) Highly impressed.

I just purchased a pair of Studio 60.4s and a CC590.4. I have owned the following Speakers...
Paradigm Atoms
Paradigm Titans
Paradigm Phantoms (all the above are circa early 90's)
Paradigm Monitor 7.3s
Paradigm Studio 20.1s
Paradigm Studio 60.2s
Polk RTi8s
B&W 705s
Klipsch RF82s
...I got them home last night and expected to be happy. I am euphoric. I woke my wife out of bed so she could hear them. I have driven my speakers with various Receivers (Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer Elite, Sony ES), Separates (Adcom, Rotel, NAD) and have used various wires (MIT, Monster). My current set up is an Onkyo 805 with Audioquest Slate Bi-wire. Incidently, this was through Apple TV at 320kps. My other sources have been everything from a Linn Turntable to DVD-Audio/SACD. I still have a 222ES SACD player. I will post more in the future. I just thought for those of us that are "chasing the dragon" when it comes to our hobby, it's nice to be completely floored with a product's performance once in a blue moon. I can't wait for these to break in! I am playing the XLO Reference CD in 5 Channel Stereo to speed up the process through the day. I currently have my kids watching the Backyardigans through them. :) Highly impressed.
wait till you hear brothers in arms by dire straits on sacd through your system
the smile had to wear off mine.

Love the Dire Straits....

Gotta love good quality music... cranked to the hilt....

So I still have not pulled the trigger on my speakers, I wrote this in another thread, a bit off the top of my head but now I think it really is the "block" that is stopping me from picking one or the other.

"Simply put I'm new to the hobby and I'm not sure I can appreciate the Studio line so in a sense I can not really tell what I'm getting. Either way I want to use these for years but I dont want to buy something because others say to.
If everyone goes to the Studio line, is it because everyone has money? Or because they all appreciate them fully and not because its the cool thing to do? I hardly see people going with the monitor line and I wonder why.

Part of me says get the monitors, save the money and pay your dues like everyone else just learning the hobby. Another part says to buy the Studio's and be done with it but I'd be skipping the learning steps. My first car was a 80' Toyota Corolla, after a few cars I pretty much built my MR2 turbo by hand, learning and studying as I went, by the time I bought my STi and Evo, I could appreciate some very subtle differences between them and had a much better understanding of it all.... Does that make sense?"

My setup IS just for HT, but of course, I dont know what the future will hold. Of note is that when I listend to the Studio line I was not "floored" like many, probably due to my lack of knowledge.
Is the monitor line popular? Can I sell them in a few years and upgrade assuming I get the bug or do they not fetch anything? Coming from a HTIB I can only imagine I will be more than happy with them since I won't really of had other speakers to compare them too.

Any discussions about this "block" that I'm having are more than welcome, but I don't want to get into which is "better" since I dont think I can appreciate the studio's yet but we all know they are "better" (and I have heard both, back to back, even swapping between them while the song is playing).

The choices are either:
Monitor 9's with a CC390
or
Studio 40's with a CC590

I have a HSU VTF 3.3 and a set of ADP390's already here (and a yammy 661) with no amp yet.

Studio 20s and CC590. In my opinion, the 40s are not a significant upgrade if you have a decent sub. There was an earlier post regarding the difference between the two. I chose the 60s and 590 based on two things. 1. A 6 1/2" woofer is "faster" than an 8" and 2. I could never fit the upgraded center in my system. The old Signature Tweeter/v.4 Tweeter is significant. The reduced cabinet space will image better as well (I have a 1 year old and needed to baby proof the living room). Enjoy!

My dealer here (A&B TV) have an OLD set of demo Studio 20's that they want to sell me, they said they will not order the new Studio20's until the old ones are sold so I have not even had a chance to hear the new ones.

I will look for the post on the 20 vs 40's, I'm crawling through this ENTIRE thread as we type :D

wait till you hear brothers in arms by dire straits on sacd through your system
the smile had to wear off mine.

...SACD...

Norah Jones "Come Away With Me" :)
Peter Gabriel "So" ("Don't Give Up") :)
Sonny Rollins "Way Out West" ("I'm an Old Cowhand")
Miles Davis "Kind of Blue"

...CD or 320kps...

Sonia Dada "A Day at the Beach" ("Airplanes and Satellites")
Dave Matthews Band "Crash" ("Lie In Our Graves")
""(Lover Lay Down)
Grant Lee Buffalo "Mighty Joe Moon" ("Mockingbirds")
Norah Jones (everything! "Creeping In", etc.)
Sarah McLachlan (as above, "I Love You", etc.)
Gov't Mule (as above)
Phish "A Live One" ("Bouncing 'Round the Room")

...True HD...

The Matrix
Happy Feet

...PCM...

Casino Royale
Pirates...

...on and on. These have been the CDs I have used to audition throughout the years and the movies I am familiar with. I only have 36 hours before I have to start thinking about work again. This is quite a moment in time. :)

My dealer here (A&B TV) have an OLD set of demo Studio 20's that they want to sell me, they said they will not order the new Studio20's until the old ones are sold so I have not even had a chance to hear the new ones.

I will look for the post on the 20 vs 40's, I'm crawling through this ENTIRE thread as we type :D

I'll try to find it for you. IMO, demand the v.4s!

I'll try to find it for you. IMO, demand the v.4s!

To paraphrase...

2 Way Montiors basically are an easier load to drive for the amplifier (can't seem to find the post, my apologies). The additional passive driver creates an unneccessary burden on the amp. I was speaking with an associate from AAD (Phil Jones, AWESOME stuff) and he spoke to the stability of the impedance when driving a speaker. In other words, a stable load offsets high efficiency ratings (98db vs. 91db and a stable load). I am hearing this as we speak. What you gain in SPL ratings and bass you will lose in stability. I'm not an engineer so don't hold my feet to fire with this, but I can hear what the gentlemen was speaking to. There wasn't an AAD dealer in my area, so I went with the 60.4s. Again, I LOVE what I'm hearing and I've heard a ton of speakers. 20s and 60s seem to be the sweet spot within the Studio line, provided you are driving these speakers with a Receiver. Separate Amp, different story.

So I still have not pulled the trigger on my speakers, I wrote this in another thread, a bit off the top of my head but now I think it really is the "block" that is stopping me from picking one or the other.

"Simply put I'm new to the hobby and I'm not sure I can appreciate the Studio line so in a sense I can not really tell what I'm getting. Either way I want to use these for years but I dont want to buy something because others say to.
If everyone goes to the Studio line, is it because everyone has money? Or because they all appreciate them fully and not because its the cool thing to do? I hardly see people going with the monitor line and I wonder why.

Part of me says get the monitors, save the money and pay your dues like everyone else just learning the hobby. Another part says to buy the Studio's and be done with it but I'd be skipping the learning steps. My first car was a 80' Toyota Corolla, after a few cars I pretty much built my MR2 turbo by hand, learning and studying as I went, by the time I bought my STi and Evo, I could appreciate some very subtle differences between them and had a much better understanding of it all.... Does that make sense?"

My setup IS just for HT, but of course, I dont know what the future will hold. Of note is that when I listend to the Studio line I was not "floored" like many, probably due to my lack of knowledge.
Is the monitor line popular? Can I sell them in a few years and upgrade assuming I get the bug or do they not fetch anything? Coming from a HTIB I can only imagine I will be more than happy with them since I won't really of had other speakers to compare them too.

Any discussions about this "block" that I'm having are more than welcome, but I don't want to get into which is "better" since I dont think I can appreciate the studio's yet but we all know they are "better" (and I have heard both, back to back, even swapping between them while the song is playing).

The choices are either:
Monitor 9's with a CC390
or
Studio 40's with a CC590

I have a HSU VTF 3.3 and a set of ADP390's already here (and a yammy 661) with no amp yet.
its not hype take some music and go demo if you cain't tell a difference you are lucky
the money you saved can be put somewhere else but if you can then you will always
have that buyers remorse and if the studio line fell short there would be plenty here
to bash it.

But thats the question, WHAT am I listening for?
I hear the tonal difference (actually to us it sounded like a volume difference, but as I read its due somewhat to the efficiency between monitors and Studios)

Is the difference where the sounds are coming from?
Is it that the speakers "dissapear"?
What exactly is the part new people should focus on to hear this difference? And by difference I mean a point I can turn and say "See THATS what they say makes a good speaker vs. X".
I hope this does not sound like I'm trying to be difficult or rude, I just need to know what to focus on so I can say "OH THATS what they meant!" and it become clear to me

maybe a better way would be to take a cd of a live performance that you went to and see which
speaker comes the closest to your ears of actually duplicating it.

But thats the question, WHAT am I listening for?
I hear the tonal difference (actually to us it sounded like a volume difference, but as I read its due somewhat to the efficiency between monitors and Studios)

Is the difference where the sounds are coming from?
Is it that the speakers "dissapear"?
What exactly is the part new people should focus on to hear this difference? And by difference I mean a point I can turn and say "See THATS what they say makes a good speaker vs. X".
I hope this does not sound like I'm trying to be difficult or rude, I just need to know what to focus on so I can say "OH THATS what they meant!" and it become clear to me
Maybe I can shed a little more light on this for you...

Last week when I was listening to the monitor series and the studio series they both sounded good. However, the sound stage was more defined and to me at least seemed slightly broader than the monitor line.

What do I mean by defined? Well if you listen to the Monitor 9's for example and pop in a classical piece. You will have a nice well defined soundstage, for example the violin might be more forward and on the left side of the stage slightly, the brass will be almost dead center. The flute may be over on the right and slightly recessed and the harp was way back on the left. Now of course this might vary by recording but I hope you're getting the picture...

Lets take rock 'n roll for example. Vocals should be dead center, in fact on both the Monitor 9's and the Studio's it sounded as if the center channel was on when vocals were coming through. The drums were to the back of the sound stage and there were two distinct guitars on the song I was listening to with a piano off and to the right a bit recessed.

On all of these the Studio's seemed to have better seperation and placement of instruments and sounds. The monitors were great IMO but the studio's were superb IMO. Too bad I can't afford the studio's...hopefully I did a good enough job explaining that so perhaps next time you listen you'll key in on a few things.

I like the idea of listening to a live album you've heard in person. See which one reproduces it better.

Yeah that helped 6speed. Thats more of the info I was looking for. So I need to see if the definition/seperation is better for me with one over the other.
I even told my gf this morning I should just go grab a set of Studio60's and 690 and never return to AVS again (except to read up on amps :) ) but know I could never stay away.

I still dont know which I'll pick but I will weigh the sound stage difference between the two and see if its worth the price difference. As I explained it to her we are leaving the "civic" (Bose :D) line of cars for like a BMW5 series (Monitors) and deciding between them or a 6/7 series (Studios). I'm not sure that my car analogy is right but thats the only way I can explain to her the difference between speaker lines.

Any chance you want to come down to Texas and go speaker shopping 6spd? It would be so much easier if AVS had "Help a newbie" field trips :D

** Edit **
You know, with the $$ difference between speakers I COULD put that toward a new amp OR some serious room treatments. Depending on what I can build/buy I'm almost willing to bet that treating my room would make more of an improvement than either set of speaker would in a crappy room.

** Edit 2 **
Ok, leaving now, taking my "Dave Matthews Band Live at Red Rocks" cd... :D

As I explained it to her we are leaving the "civic" (Bose :D) line of cars for like a BMW5 series (Monitors) and deciding between them or a 6/7 series (Studios). I'm not sure that my car analogy is right but thats the only way I can explain to her the difference between speaker lines.


Thank god upgrading to better quality speakers isn't the same as upgrading from a civic to a BMW when it comes time for repairs....
I like BMW's they perform well, and look great.. but they are maintenance whores.... and prices for parts will take a bit wet bite out of your @$$...


I own a service station, so I might be a touch biased.... :rolleyes:

Thank god upgrading to better quality speakers isn't the same as upgrading from a civic to a BMW when it comes time for repairs....
I like BMW's they perform well, and look great.. but they are maintenance whores.... and prices for parts will take a bit wet bite out of your @$$...


I own a service station, so I might be a touch biased.... :rolleyes:
yea i am afraid i would still be listening to civics.

Yeah that helped 6speed. Thats more of the info I was looking for. So I need to see if the definition/seperation is better for me with one over the other.
I even told my gf this morning I should just go grab a set of Studio60's and 690 and never return to AVS again (except to read up on amps :) ) but know I could never stay away.

I still dont know which I'll pick but I will weigh the sound stage difference between the two and see if its worth the price difference. As I explained it to her we are leaving the "civic" (Bose :D) line of cars for like a BMW5 series (Monitors) and deciding between them or a 6/7 series (Studios). I'm not sure that my car analogy is right but thats the only way I can explain to her the difference between speaker lines.

Any chance you want to come down to Texas and go speaker shopping 6spd? It would be so much easier if AVS had "Help a newbie" field trips :D

** Edit **
You know, with the $$ difference between speakers I COULD put that toward a new amp OR some serious room treatments. Depending on what I can build/buy I'm almost willing to bet that treating my room would make more of an improvement than either set of speaker would in a crappy room.

** Edit 2 **
Ok, leaving now, taking my "Dave Matthews Band Live at Red Rocks" cd... :D
I don't mean to make your life more difficult but keep in mind you are likely auditioning the two in a less than ideal environment (and clearly not your own home/room). So, even if you could convince yourself that you hear the difference enough to justify the cost it wouldn't necessarily be the case in your home. Buying speakers is very subjective and if you can live with the monitor line speakers and be happy I'd buy them. If you will constantly be worrying that you could have better then go for the studios. You can't go wrong either way and if you do buy the studios you'll at least feel like you have the best. A lot of this decision will be psychologically driven and so to will be your satisfaction with your choice.

So, I'd pay at least as much attention to your own psychology as you do to the speaker audition.

I think the car analogy is good here. If you go for the 5 series BMW you are getting a fantastic car. If you go for the 7 series you are getting a fantastic car. Each is different and the 7 isn't necessarily better it's just different and an option at a different price point. My suggestion is buy the best for the money that fits your budget and don't worry about the fact that there are more expensive or "better" ones out there - that will always be the case no matter what you buy.

I don't mean to make your life more difficult but keep in mind you are likely auditioning the two in a less than ideal environment (and clearly not your own home/room). So, even if you could convince yourself that you hear the difference enough to justify the cost it wouldn't necessarily be the case in your home. Buying speakers is very subjective and if you can live with the monitor line speakers and be happy I'd buy them. If you will constantly be worrying that you could have better then go for the studios. You can't go wrong either way and if you do buy the studios you'll at least feel like you have the best. A lot of this decision will be psychologically driven and so to will be your satisfaction with your choice.

So, I'd pay at least as much attention to your own psychology as you do to the speaker audition.

I think the car analogy is good here. If you go for the 5 series BMW you are getting a fantastic car. If you go for the 7 series you are getting a fantastic car. Each is different and the 7 isn't necessarily better it's just different and an option at a different price point. My suggestion is buy the best for the money that fits your budget and don't worry about the fact that there are more expensive or "better" ones out there - that will always be the case no matter what you buy.

Well said 1265!

In my experience a high-powered amp is not needed to achieve very loud (and clean) volumes with the Paradigm speakers. I ran a full Signature set-up (S8's, C3, and ADPs) off of a Denon 5800 and was able to reach 110 dB at 1M with the S8' alone. This is ear-bleed territory. I may have even been able to go higher, but there is no way I would ever actually listen to music or movies this loud so why go there.

It all comes down to speaker sensitivity and impedance. The 100's have a sensitivity rating of 91 dB (in room) for 1 watt @ 1 meter. If you sit 9 feet away, it will only take about 2 watts to reach 91 dB (moderately loud) with a pair of 100's. The loudest I like to listen to music in stereo is 94-98 dB (and this is LOUD). To achieve that level with just the L / R Studio 100's, it would only take roughly 10 watts. Add a powered sub to the mix, and you gain even more headroom and you can reach even higher peak dB's.

Yes, the 100's dip below 4 Ohms in a narrow range in the upper bass, but again, based on my experience described above, this does not appear to present a problem to today's higher-end receivers.

Also keep in mind that going from 140 watts to 200 watts only gives you a gain of less than 2 dB of max output. I highly doubt you will ever use it, unless you fancy hearing loss.

Oh, and Pioneer's wattage ratings for their Elite line is for all channels driven. You only see the 1 channel figures on really cheap gear.

With that said, buy the Pioneer AVR and worry about the amp later. Don't be afraid to return the external amp if you find that you really don't need it.
I totally agree! I am running my 100's with a Rotel rsx-1067 which is rated at 100 wpc with 7 channels driven and it's plenty loud! I just don't buy that tripling the power is going to make them sound so much better? Unless of course it's in a big room and your just making up for distance. I just don't believe you need all that power under normal circumstances.....

Ok, so I'm back with a full set of speakers, front, center, sides, HSU Sub :D.
They do sound great and I'm sure my next upgrade will be room treatments instead of an amp to start with.
The sound stage is GREAT and my room is FILLED with clean sound.

I'm sure the question is "So which did you pick?" and I'll answer that in a bit, (i'm still moving them around, and need to adjust levels etc) but instead of talking about what I got the first point that *I* need to make is to thank everyone that answered a question, or offered advice or even that read and answered other questions that helped and influenced me or anyone else with questions. This is a GREAT board/community.

When I chime in next hopefully it will be with pictures and comments :) Even untuned these sound GREAT. Oh and the advice to take a live recording really helped, this definately sealed the deal.
Thanks again everyone, I'm hoping I can contribute as much someday.
/end tease :D

Ok, so I'm back with a full set of speakers, front, center, sides, HSU Sub :D.
They do sound great and I'm sure my next upgrade will be room treatments instead of an amp to start with.
The sound stage is GREAT and my room is FILLED with clean sound.

I'm sure the question is "So which did you pick?" and I'll answer that in a bit, (i'm still moving them around, and need to adjust levels etc) but instead of talking about what I got the first point that *I* need to make is to thank everyone that answered a question, or offered advice or even that read and answered other questions that helped and influenced me or anyone else with questions. This is a GREAT board/community.

When I chime in next hopefully it will be with pictures and comments :) Even untuned these sound GREAT. Oh and the advice to take a live recording really helped, this definately sealed the deal.
Thanks again everyone, I'm hoping I can contribute as much someday.
/end tease :D

Congrats, can't wait to hear what you purchased :)

Ok, so I'm back with a full set of speakers, front, center, sides, HSU Sub :D.
They do sound great and I'm sure my next upgrade will be room treatments instead of an amp to start with.
The sound stage is GREAT and my room is FILLED with clean sound.

I'm sure the question is "So which did you pick?" and I'll answer that in a bit, (i'm still moving them around, and need to adjust levels etc) but instead of talking about what I got the first point that *I* need to make is to thank everyone that answered a question, or offered advice or even that read and answered other questions that helped and influenced me or anyone else with questions. This is a GREAT board/community.

When I chime in next hopefully it will be with pictures and comments :) Even untuned these sound GREAT. Oh and the advice to take a live recording really helped, this definately sealed the deal.
Thanks again everyone, I'm hoping I can contribute as much someday.
/end tease :D

The drama! The suspense! I CANT STAND IT!! :eek: Is there a surprise ending? Sigs maybe?

You took your time, asked good questions, read all the advise and comments and made an informed decision. Congrats on your purchase.

The drama! The suspense! I CANT STAND IT!! :eek: Is there a surprise ending? Sigs maybe?

You took your time, asked good questions, read all the advise and comments and made an informed decision. Congrats on your purchase.
I would venture to say his decision may tell us more about his psychology than his ears! :cool:

I just purchased a pair of Studio 20's v3 off E-Bay. Now I need a center. Paradigm on their site recomends the CC590. Putting the price aside for the moment this piece seems like a real monster and I am not sure that the cantilivered glass shelves of my Sanus plasma stand can support it.
It appears that the CC290 are just about the size and weight as my present center a Definitive 2300 C/L/R. In my medium size room I don't play music or video at high volume. All things considered that with the lower price makes it's an attractive proposition.
However what am I giving up if I buy a CC290? Is it best to bite the bullet buy the CC-590 and make the necessary changes to accommodate it?

I just purchased a pair of Studio 20's v3 off E-Bay. Now I need a center. Paradigm on their site recomends the CC590. Putting the price aside for the moment this piece seems like a real monster and I am not sure that the cantilivered glass shelves of my Sanus plasma stand can support it.
It appears that the CC290 are just about the size and weight as my present center a Definitive 2300 C/L/R. In my medium size room I don't play music or video at high volume. All things considered that with the lower price makes it's an attractive proposition.
However what am I giving up if I buy a CC290? Is it best to bite the bullet buy the CC-590 and make the necessary changes to accommodate it?

The CC590 is matched for the studio series mains. The easiest way to explain is the sound travelling from left to right would sound the same as it progressed across the sound stage. With unmatched speakers the sound may go from Mazarati to Mitsubishi to Mazarati again.

Hey if you want to check out monster, how about the CC690....

If I understand you correctly then the large center is not matched to the Series-20 mini-monitor form factor. It follows then a smaller center may fit my needs.

It occurs to me that it could be set as a large in the processor then (hopefully) the bass of the big center might be sufficient to eliminate the expense and complication of a small subwoofer. Is this assumption correct? I am talking about a bass extension into the low 30hz's

If I understand you correctly then the large center is not matched to the Series-20 mini-monitor form factor. It follows then a smaller center may fit my needs.

It occurs to me that it could be set as a large in the processor then (hopefully) the bass of the big center might be sufficient to eliminate the expense and complication of a small subwoofer. Is this assumption correct? I am talking about a bass extension into the low 30hz's
the timbre match is important paradigm spent some time and engineering to get
a good soundstage with the 3 speakers and yes to get the full spectrum there is
no substitute for a sub.

a) Thats a 37' tv for size comparison (Its getting replaced in a few days for a 47") Projector coming later (or soon?!) :D
b) You guys were right, Music is the only thing you have to take when shopping, you can not tell much if ANY difference between speakers and movies.

I almost feel bad since I think you guys will be dissapointed...
Having said that, I took my music and listened to the 40's for about a 1/2 hr, same equipment etc, just a change of speakers and I re-listened to the last song that was playing and moved it over to the 11's. I now know what you meant about the sound stage 6sp, I could hear the difference you were talking about.
That difference though was not enough (for me) to justify the price difference. I thought the 11's in fact brought life to my music and my ears were dancing around to them. They also have a great sound-stage and I could easily place people, instruments, etc withing the space in front of me. Music has great, um, authority? when played (on both sets of speakers).

I have to talk up the monitors a bit, I can tell the Studio line is a better speaker but the difference between the two takes a certain type of person to appreciate it and for me they are SO close I don't feel bad in the slightest for picking these. To anyone that is trying to decide I think the two lines are closer than some possibly let on. In my living room these sound GREAT, much better than the store (which I took over for about 2hrs total on that day). Originally I thought the monitors were a MUCH lower line but that is false, and as has been said before they are NO slouch. Music dances around and the 390 center is GREAT. Movies have never sounded so good and the speech is clear from any seat in the house. AGAIN I got goose bumps watching a few scenes from Batman Begins in HD, in the "Training" Scene where they were on the ice and all the cracking glaciers could be heard was chills inducing.

If anything I have to say that when giving advice, the Monitor line should not be tossed aside so quickly. I don't think I "settled" at ALL, I think I picked a set of speakers that sound better than many other sets out there and were a great price to boot; even better for a mix of HT/Music.
As I said though I will give the nod to the Studio Line, so for those of you lusting after them, I can see why and I'm not taking anything away from them. But the line between the two (for me) is a bit more blurry than I originally thought. I was set to go in and pickup a set of 40's or 60's but the Monitors surprised me so much that it was a pleasure to live with and I could not see spending the cash.

One day I will appreciate what the Studio line offers, I can see that, but for now, these are AMAZING, I've reached my goal of "Movies" at home and without a set of Studios to swap back and forth instantly these have no peer for near the money. Mark me as being in the Paradigm family and a devoted fan :D The grills will stay on due to the "condom" look (odd but impressive still), and I have to say they are MASSIVE, more than the pictures indicate. And that center... omg :D.

If anyone has Monitor questions I will be glad to answer what I can (or if you want more pictures) but I'm GIDDY (too bad I had class tonight). Sorry I didn't go with the Studio line for those looking for more soldiers :D but I think 1256 put it as well as anyone could have.

Opinions on my set-up?:

Yamaha 661
Monitor 11's
Monitor CC390
Monitor ADP390's
HSU VTF3.3 Sub

Next up: room treatments

(The pictures are right after I placed them quickly in the front, I need to clean up a bit and set them to the right distances.)

Congrats on your new purchase. I recently got the Monitor 9's and the cc390 center. I went with a Seismic 10 sub and couldn't be happier. You made a great choice. Monitors are by far the best "Bang for your Buck" speakers on the market IMHO.

bayn, nice to hear your happy with your choice. I'm getting my 390 by the end of the month. Cant wait. That thing is a beast!!!

I think the teddy bear would look nicer on the left speaker :cool:

I just purchased a pair of Studio 20's v3 off E-Bay. Now I need a center. Paradigm on their site recomends the CC590. Putting the price aside for the moment this piece seems like a real monster and I am not sure that the cantilivered glass shelves of my Sanus plasma stand can support it.
It appears that the CC290 are just about the size and weight as my present center a Definitive 2300 C/L/R. In my medium size room I don't play music or video at high volume. All things considered that with the lower price makes it's an attractive proposition.
However what am I giving up if I buy a CC290? Is it best to bite the bullet buy the CC-590 and make the necessary changes to accommodate it?

When the version 3 series were current, the center recommendation for the 20v3s from Paradigm was the CC-470v3 or 570v3. At one time I used 20s with a 570,(similar to the new 590) blended fine. I would try to find used the smaller 470v3, seems a lot of folks want to trade in their 470/570s for the new 690 (me included :D ), so you should be able to locate one.

Congratulations Bayn :)

I'm excited for you :) Unfortunately if I go with the Monitor 9's I'll probably be forced to go with the 290 Center due to wife constraints ;)


Why did you choose the actual surround speakers instead of a more direct speaker like a Titan Monitor something similar?

Why did you choose the actual surround speakers instead of a more direct speaker like a Titan Monitor something similar?

Thanks for the words everyone :)
6spd - I'm still VERY interested to hear your review of the 290 vs the 390 especially after what I heard. It is weired to read how our ears hear speakers differently. (Go for the 390 if anything, for no reason other than to tell people your center weights 60+lbs :D)

Second I chose the ADP rears because I like my movies, I think they sound way better for that application than directs. Having said that, I DO intend on picking up a set of direct rears at some point for music. I think both speakers have a place in anyone's setup and mine was based on my initial facination with movies. As it stands I always though directs in the rear "drill" the sound into my ears (That could also be why the 290 sounded so bright to me).

Also the speakers are fine for the current location, but I intend to move them into a dedicated room when I can set that up, and the ADP's would of course be mounted on a wall as they are supposed to. Once I clean up maybe I can put up a picture of them all setup. The bear is for home security, in case someone gets too close to the speakers :D

Thanks for the words everyone :)
6spd - I'm still VERY interested to hear your review of the 290 vs the 390 especially after what I heard. It is weired to read how our ears hear speakers differently. (Go for the 390 if anything, for no reason other than to tell people your center weights 60+lbs :D)

Second I chose the ADP rears because I like my movies, I think they sound way better for that application than directs. Having said that, I DO intend on picking up a set of direct rears at some point for music. I think both speakers have a place in anyone's setup and mine was based on my initial facination with movies. As it stands I always though directs in the rear "drill" the sound into my ears (That could also be why the 290 sounded so bright to me).

Also the speakers are fine for the current location, but I intend to move them into a dedicated room when I can set that up, and the ADP's would of course be mounted on a wall as they are supposed to. Once I clean up maybe I can put up a picture of them all setup. The bear is for home security, in case someone gets too close to the speakers :D
Cool, so did the dealer give you any sort of deal/discount?

Cool, so did the dealer give you any sort of deal/discount?

Palantir- I totally agree with the Bang for buck comment
Dr Pain - Your links REALLY helped me as I started all of this FYI! :)
6spd - Usual 10% and they were very very helpful this time around.

I just sold my CC-470 v3 to a member here and was in the market for a CC-590 to match my Studio 60s v4. At my local dealer, they didn't have any CC-590s in stock and would have to order it. But they did have one CC-570 v3 left in black, so I pulled the trigger on it instead.

What's the main differences between the CC-570 v3 and the CC-590? I got a decent price on it, but would exchange it if the CC-590 is that much better. TIA.

Bayn, Congrats on the new setup...

I loved the combo of the 11's with the CC-390...... Great speakers...

3 things though...

A) Put those grills back on, and hurry before someone figures out you stole all their condoms to make a set of speakers... :)

B) Maybe experiment with toeing those speakers in a bit to improve your sound stage...

C) I really am not sure why you would downsize your TV from a 37' to 47 inch... :)

Again nice review, and nice room layout there buddy... :)

Warp

Bayn, can you please post some closer pics of the 390 with the grill off.

Thanks

Warp,
Thanks :) The 37' was getting out of hand, not every neighbor wanted to watch the same show I did, I felt it was the right thing to do :D. As far as the toe in, I am in the process of measuring the living room, I still need to set the couch 1/3 of the way off the back wall, then place the speakers equal distances from the chair, @30 degrees etc THEN calibrate them. Been so busy with school and work lately :( Once I can do that, I will play with the toe-in a bit. I'm also trying to get an SPL meter but my radio shack is always out and I have not had a chance to order one line either. I'm just happy I got speakers :D

DrPain: No problem, what areas specifically? I can probably have that up for you tonight. Just pictures in general or of specific, up-close areas?

I just sold my CC-470 v3 to a member here and was in the market for a CC-590 to match my Studio 60s v4. At my local dealer, they didn't have any CC-590s in stock and would have to order it. But they did have one CC-570 v3 left in black, so I pulled the trigger on it instead.

What's the main differences between the CC-570 v3 and the CC-590? I got a decent price on it, but would exchange it if the CC-590 is that much better. TIA.

The 590 has the newer midrange and tweeter, that more closely matches your 60v4s the best. The 570 has the same drivers as the other v3 series Studios. The list price may have gone up 50-100 bucks between the two, so depending on what kind of a deal you got on the 570, maybe for a little more you can exchange for it for a 590.

DrPain: No problem, what areas specifically? I can probably have that up for you tonight. Just pictures in general or of specific, up-close areas?

Go wild, take as many as you can from all angles. I want to see this beast "exposed"!

Go wild, take as many as you can from all angles. I want to see this beast "exposed"!

Im thinking start by taking all the drivers out, and see how it looks...

Hows that for "Exposed" ? :rolleyes: ;)

wait till you hear brothers in arms by dire straits on sacd through your system
the smile had to wear off mine.
Nice ill pick this sacd up! Im just starting to build my sacd collection, already have the Pink Floyd along with a few jazz sacds and the Alice in Chains greatest hits is also on my wishlist anyone heard this one? And anyone with more suggestions on good quality sacds would be appreciated. ps I recently picked up the Eagles Farewell tour I live from Melbourne dvd and in 2 channel pcm sounds awesome on the monitor 9's even when driven my budget yamaha htr 5960. Defineately some material to show off ur system! especially u guys with the monster systems im so jealous of most of u haha

Ok, so by popular demand (or request of one person, its all a bit fuzzy :D) more pictures of the Monitor 11's and the CC390. I did not take a picture of the ADP390's because, well i figured you know what they look like and I did not want to take the grill off (its on there pretty good, dont want to break anything).


The cd is for size reference and I only had my Forza2 disk right there :)

Ok, so by popular demand (or request of one person, its all a bit fuzzy :D) more pictures of the Monitor 11's and the CC390. I did not take a picture of the ADP390's because, well i figured you know what they look like and I did not want to take the grill off (its on there pretty good, dont want to break anything).


The cd is for size reference and I only had my Forza2 disk right there :)

thanks bayn, that 390 is huge!

No problem, let me know if you guys need/want anything else, I can only hope I'm half as helpful as others on this board.

The 590 has the newer midrange and tweeter, that more closely matches your 60v4s the best. The 570 has the same drivers as the other v3 series Studios. The list price may have gone up 50-100 bucks between the two, so depending on what kind of a deal you got on the 570, maybe for a little more you can exchange for it for a 590.

Yeah, I feared that it was the tweeter that changed, but now hear that the mids changed/improved as well. The local dealer said it should still match fine and I figured he'd know what he was talking about...because if he was more interested in making $$$$ instead, he would've pushed for the CC-590 w/ little or no discount off MSRP. So, I took his word for it since he's the shop owner.

Still, other than asking here, I sent an email to Paradigm techs asking if it would still match well (CC-570 v3 + Studio 60s v4) or if the CC-590 is dramatically better. Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I feared that it was the tweeter that changed, but now hear that the mids changed/improved as well. The local dealer said it should still match fine and I figured he'd know what he was talking about...because if he was more interested in making $$$$ instead, he would've pushed for the CC-590 w/ little or no discount off MSRP. So, I took his word for it since he's the shop owner.

Still, other than asking here, I sent an email to Paradigm techs asking if it would still match well (CC-570 v3 + Studio 60s v4) or if the CC-590 is dramatically better. Thanks for the reply.
its just the dome change on the tweeter and on the mids its the cone material more
detail on the website.

Yeah, I feared that it was the tweeter that changed, but now hear that the mids changed/improved as well. The local dealer said it should still match fine and I figured he'd know what he was talking about...because if he was more interested in making $$$$ instead, he would've pushed for the CC-590 w/ little or no discount off MSRP. So, I took his word for it since he's the shop owner.

Still, other than asking here, I sent an email to Paradigm techs asking if it would still match well (CC-570 v3 + Studio 60s v4) or if the CC-590 is dramatically better. Thanks for the reply.

Paradigm will tell you they will match; they are famous for that. And it probably will, to a certain degree. Will the 590 match better? Only you can tell that. For the best match, a third Studio 60v4 would be best, but usually not possible in real world situations.

Guess my point is, if you already took a financial hit selling the 470 in the used market, and paid almost full MSRP for the 570, well, I would call it more of a lateral move, not an upgrade. Not when a v4 is available at or close to the same cost. It's an investment issue.

If it were me, I'd take the 570 back, tell the dealer I don't feel they match properly, and to order the new v4 center.
Your call, but in 4-5 years, when Paradigm introduces the v5 Studios, the v3 will just be that much more "obsolete" (only from a marketing standpoint).

its just the dome change on the tweeter and on the mids its the cone material more
detail on the website.

Thanks for the reply.

Paradigm will tell you they will match; they are famous for that. And it probably will, to a certain degree. Will the 590 match better? Only you can tell that. For the best match, a third Studio 60v4 would be best, but usually not possible in real world situations.

Guess my point is, if you already took a financial hit selling the 470 in the used market, and paid almost full MSRP for the 570, well, I would call it more of a lateral move, not an upgrade. Not when a v4 is available at or close to the same cost. It's an investment issue.

If it were me, I'd take the 570 back, tell the dealer I don't feel they match properly, and to order the new v4 center.
Your call, but in 4-5 years, when Paradigm introduces the v5 Studios, the v3 will just be that much more "obsolete" (only from a marketing standpoint).

Oh didn't know Paradigm was famous for that, this is the first time I ever tried to conact them directly (via email).

On the CC-470 v3 I sold recently, I broke even on it. As for the CC-570 v3, I paid about $150 under MSRP...I haggled for more of a discount (since it's discontinued), but he wouldn't budge.

If the dealer is willing to give me full credit on the exchange, I'll gladly take it back and order the CC-590. If not, I may just keep it. I appreciate the response.

had they of changed the crossovers or the actual magnet structure or voice coils i think
from what other posters that have mixed speakers of v3 and v4 would have posted by
now that the sound is very noticable from one model to the next.

Hey guys...looking at a few options here for a speaker system upgrade. Running 7.1 now usung Mirages HDT....

The signature series has really peaked my interest.....Looking at S8 as mains....C5 center....S4 as rears and the ADP3 as sides all powered by 4 Rotel 1090s. Any of you folks have experience with this combo. How hungry are these puppies. I can't imagine the Rotel not keeping up with them. I am keeping my existing subs.....2 servo 15s doing L/R bass and 2 other subs doing LFE...Mirage BPS400 and an Energy 18XLe.

Other option is Dynaudio....the Contour series.

Hi everyone. I'm about ready to take the TV upgrade plunge, and along with this purchase we are rearranging our family room. The tv will likely be a Pioneer or Panasonic 50-60" plasma and it will be wall mounted. Due to WAF issues, I am also looking for slim profile wall mountable speakers and have narrowed my search down to either the Paradigm Millenia 20s for fronts and center or the B&W VM1 set for fronts and center. Can anyone please offer any insight/comparision b/w these two speakers? MSRP-wise they are closely matched.

For comparison sake, I've been very pleased with my ~7 year old Mini Monitors. I've auditioned the B&W FPMs and thought they were excellent, but out of my budget, especially with the pending tv purchase. A friend recently purchased the Paradigm Cinema CC110 set and I was quite disappointed when I auditioned them at his house.

Any input re: the Millenia 20 vs. the B&W VM1 would be greatly appreciated!!!

Hey guys...looking at a few options here for a speaker system upgrade. Running 7.1 now usung Mirages HDT....

The signature series has really peaked my interest.....Looking at S8 as mains....C5 center....S4 as rears and the ADP3 as sides all powered by 4 Rotel 1090s. Any of you folks have experience with this combo. How hungry are these puppies. I can't imagine the Rotel not keeping up with them. I am keeping my existing subs.....2 servo 15s doing L/R bass and 2 other subs doing LFE...Mirage BPS400 and an Energy 18XLe.

Other option is Dynaudio....the Contour series.
ok now i am envious.

had they of changed the crossovers or the actual magnet structure or voice coils i think
from what other posters that have mixed speakers of v3 and v4 would have posted by
now that the sound is very noticable from one model to the next.

Yeah, you bring up a good point. Thanks again.

Hey guys...looking at a few options here for a speaker system upgrade. Running 7.1 now usung Mirages HDT....

The signature series has really peaked my interest.....Looking at S8 as mains....C5 center....S4 as rears and the ADP3 as sides all powered by 4 Rotel 1090s. Any of you folks have experience with this combo. How hungry are these puppies. I can't imagine the Rotel not keeping up with them. I am keeping my existing subs.....2 servo 15s doing L/R bass and 2 other subs doing LFE...Mirage BPS400 and an Energy 18XLe.

Other option is Dynaudio....the Contour series.

My Studio 100's get about 380w and sound great. My dealer has S8's powered with a Mac amp that puts out about 300wpc and they sound amazing. I would think the 1090 would do a great job with those sigs.

S2's and C3 finally came in. I will provide a review as soon as they are broken in.

Immediate audible difference is the V2's are not as efficient as the V1's so at the same volume level, the V2's do not play as loud. Appearance wise, like the V1's, they are a beautiful/classy looking speaker, although I almost prefer the look of the exposed tweeters on the V1's better, but like the fact that the V2's tweeter are covered making them less vulnerable. I prefer the look of the aluminum midrange/bass driver over the previous version, however, at a distance they look very similar.

Like I say, I will update you on the sound when I feel they are properly broken in. (I'm not sure how long this will take)

I would submit a picture, but not sure how on here.

use the "Attach Files" feature at the bottom when you post

ordered pair of Monitor 7'sand CC190 today...any fellow owners of these with advice/suggestions?

How do the Paradigm Signature towers, the S6 and S8 v.2, compare to the Onix Rocket towers from ********** that are considerably less (like almost half the cost)?

Overall impressions are fine... I still need to hear the Rockets for myself. Build quality too?

I've heard the Sigs myself and was impressed... however, the price was a little steep compared to almost furniture grade speakers from Aerial Acoustics... though the AA's aren't exactly cheap either.

ordered pair of Monitor 7'sand CC190 today...any fellow owners of these with advice/suggestions?

I dont own any ..yet, but I would suggest going to the CC290 or 390 as Paradigm suggests.


http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/rec-systems-17-1-2-4.paradigm#


P.S.
... getting my cc390 this Friday, first piece in my new system. (9's , 390)

S2's and C3 finally came in. I will provide a review as soon as they are broken in.

Immediate audible difference is the V2's are not as efficient as the V1's so at the same volume level, the V2's do not play as loud. Appearance wise, like the V1's, they are a beautiful/classy looking speaker, although I almost prefer the look of the exposed tweeters on the V1's better, but like the fact that the V2's tweeter are covered making them less vulnerable. I prefer the look of the aluminum midrange/bass driver over the previous version, however, at a distance they look very similar.

Like I say, I will update you on the sound when I feel they are properly broken in. (I'm not sure how long this will take)

You can see my review here under post #3:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=878920

I may be purchasing a pair of Studio 60 V.3. Wondering if my receiver is enough to power these efficiently. They will be used for HT.

Thanks.

Here are the specifications of my receiver (Panasonic SA-HE100):

Number of Channels 5.1 Channels
Stereo Mode Power 100 Watt @ 6 ohm, 40 Hz - 20 kHz, THD: 0.9%
Surround Mode Power 100 Watt @ 6 ohm, 1 kHz, THD: 0.9%
Surround Sound Dolby Digital� • DTS ES� • Dolby Pro Logic II
THX Certification No
DSP
DSP Modes Hall • Live • Theater
Inputs / Outputs
Rear Input Connectors Digital Coaxial x 1 • Digital Optical x 3 • Composite (Video) x 3 • Component x 2
Rear Output Connectors Digital Optical x 1 • S-Video x 3 • Component x 1
Front A/V Connections Composite x 1 • Couple RCA Jack x 1 • Headphones x 1
Surround Analog Inputs 5.1 Channels x 1
Convenience
Speaker Impedance 4 Ohm • 8 Ohm
Speaker Selection A+B or A/B
Tone Controls Bass

it will probably work but it will work better with more power as with most speakers these days
one key thing you left out what size room and how loud do you play from your seating in db's.
then this can be answered better.