I will soon be the owner of a pair of Studio 40s on J23 stands. Is it worth it to Bi-Amp with the receiver I have? The receiver is a Pioneer VSX-816 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/kuro/product/details/0,,2076_310069809_299915436,00.html) which does have Bi-Amp capability. Is it worth doing this? Big difference? Slight difference? Placebo difference?

Thanks!

i would not since the curve on those speakers dip in the bass area around
100hz look in your manual and see if it warns about bi-amping below 8 ohms.

Do you mean that you removed the driver and swapped the internal connection? I don't know the driver config on the speaker but is there 1 or 2 woofers. Did you swap on a woofer? I hope you don't mean that you swapped the polarity on the cabinet terminals because that makes no sense at all.

Ed

I ran into this same polarity warning for the ADP's with my denon AVR. The auto set-up mic reads the driver that is out of phase on the dipoles and flags the speaker as out of phase with the fronts. If you reverse the polarity of the external speaker connections, the warning goes away.

Thanks for the reply. Not sure I quite follow you. The normal impedance of the speakers is 8 ohms. When I remove the jumper to bi amp, the impedance is lower? I looked at the Pioneer manual and it doesn't have a warning that I can see. It does have a setting to change from 8 ohm to 6 ohm if that helps.

Looking at the FAQ on the Paradigm site, they recommend separate amplifiers for Bi-Amp. My Pioneer is a 7.1 receiver. There is a setting to change the surround rear channels to Bi-Amp front, or a separate zone. The receiver is rated 770W, or 110W per channel ,220W in 2ch stereo. If I Bi-Amped, would this mean "440W"? I know these ratings can be a bit hoaky. Since it is not a "real" separate amplifier, is it worth doing?

Sorry to sound like a newb, but this is new to me, and I'm just trying to understand.

Thanks for the reply. Not sure I quite follow you. The normal impedance of the speakers is 8 ohms. When I remove the jumper to bi amp, the impedance is lower? I looked at the Pioneer manual and it doesn't have a warning that I can see. It does have a setting to change from 8 ohm to 6 ohm if that helps.

Looking at the FAQ on the Paradigm site, they recommend separate amplifiers for Bi-Amp. My Pioneer is a 7.1 receiver. There is a setting to change the surround rear channels to Bi-Amp front, or a separate zone. The receiver is rated 770W, or 110W per channel ,220W in 2ch stereo. If I Bi-Amped, would this mean "440W"? I know these ratings can be a bit hoaky. Since it is not a "real" separate amplifier, is it worth doing?

Sorry to sound like a newb, but this is new to me, and I'm just trying to understand.
no the wattage does not change just dedicates 110 to the tweeter and mid
and dedicates 110 to the bass speaker some claim to hear a difference
i can not on my eq.

I passive biamp my center (CC570) mainly because I use a stereo amp, and already had the extra cabling in place. I emailed Paradigm about the ohm issue, they stated it wouldn't make much difference with that speaker, not to worry. About the only advantage is you have slightly more watts per speaker to avoid clipping the amps. AFAIK, the speaker as is (stock), biamped or not, retains the same efficiency, and will still only use a certain amount of power at whatever volume level.

I could see if one felt the highs were too much, didn't have room treatment or wanted to use an EQ, by using seperate amps, they could slightly attenuate the level to the tweeter amps.

Now active biamping is a different animal. I am currently modding my Magnepan MMGs, to use with an active digital line level crossover, in the circuit before the amps. Since the passive crossovers use up "watts", doing this basically increases the efficiency of the speakers. So using 4-75 watt amps in a biamp setup, is said to be similar to driving them with a 300 watt stereo amp. (also the maggie tweeter panel uses up more of the percentage of power needed to the speaker, than something like a Paradigm)

Thanks for the replies. I guess the best thing to do is try it out and see if I can tell a difference. I can try normal, Bi-wire and Bi-Amp and see what I think. I think I'm going to order the Canare 4S11 4x14AWG cable. Seems like it should work well.

I have never been a big "fan" of dipoles for surrounds. Would Studio 20's do well as surrounds? What is the overall opinion of the "new" V.4 w/the Signature gold tweeter update in the Studios ? Thanks for comments.

for a year and a half
hard to say without ab them going to dealer and listening and then coming home
and listening to v3 can't tell the difference.

I've done some reading on the active and passive Bi-amping. It seems that to be worth while, active is the way to go. I think I should just follow the K.I.S.S. model on this one and just do a normal wiring of the speakers.

Gentlemen,

I'm considering a Veritas c 2.0 center to match with my new Studio 100's v.3.
Anyone know how they'll match up?

I can't seem to find any 570's or 590's.

Thanks...

Gentlemen,

I'm considering a Veritas c 2.0 center to match with my new Studio 100's v.3.
Anyone know how they'll match up?

I can't seem to find any 570's or 590's.

Thanks...

Unfortunately, that particular Energy center speaker got a pretty bad review from Stereophile's Ultimate AV site when it was released.

Here's a CC590 V4 for sale
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1193840687

Gentlemen,

I'm considering a Veritas c 2.0 center to match with my new Studio 100's v.3.
Anyone know how they'll match up?

I can't seem to find any 570's or 590's.

Thanks...

the veritas have a bright tweeter compared to the studio imo.

hi everyone,
i have monitor 7 for the front and now thinking about getting a center channel. any
input on cc 190 20 lbs. i know it's not the recommended by paradigm but due to tv stand issue the second shelf (glass) could handle only a 30 lbs weight. cc290 is about
32 lbs so if i'm getting the cc290 it will end up in the bottom shelf and that the last thing i would do. please anyone know about cc 190. thanks.....

I ran into this same polarity warning for the ADP's with my denon AVR. The auto set-up mic reads the driver that is out of phase on the dipoles and flags the speaker as out of phase with the fronts. If you reverse the polarity of the external speaker connections, the warning goes away.

Did you leave the speaker connected with the polarity reversed? Did you notice any difference in sound?

Did you leave the speaker connected with the polarity reversed? Did you notice any difference in sound?

It may have been my imagination, but it did seem like the front to back fill was better. A more seamless transition when sounds panned from front to back.

I have never been a big "fan" of dipoles for surrounds. Would Studio 20's do well as surrounds? What is the overall opinion of the "new" V.4 w/the Signature gold tweeter update in the Studios ? Thanks for comments.

i use studio 20s for my surrounds; i love em

Has anyone done an A/B with Studio 20s and ADP-590s? If so, what did you think, how large was the room, and how far were they from the listening position?

I'm considering both of these options and am hoping that my dealer will let me A/B them in my home - I just haven't had the time to get there yet.

I have not done the side by side, but I used to have bookshelf speakers for my surrounds and changed them to adp-590's. I love the 590's. I think di-poles are the way to go. Maybe not for music (which I don't care about) but definately for movies.

The most I've been able to do is demo the ADP-590s only, at the dealer. It seemed that the volume was relatively low compared with the fronts. I needed to set the receiver to increase the volume to the surrounds. How do you have the relative volume set for them? Any common demo material you recommend in particular? Thanks for your input..

Edit: Also, what fronts/center do you have? (this goes for anyone who's replying to my demo 590 vs 20 Q above)

The most I've been able to do is demo the ADP-590s only, at the dealer. It seemed that the volume was relatively low compared with the fronts. I needed to set the receiver to increase the volume to the surrounds. How do you have the relative volume set for them? Any common demo material you recommend in particular? Thanks for your input..

Edit: Also, what fronts/center do you have? (this goes for anyone who's replying to my demo 590 vs 20 Q above)

i am using the 100's 570 and 20 rears 5.1 the rears are 6ft behind me
borrowed some adp's and set them on ladders to the side for movies not
bad did not care for it on multichannel music and also felt i got a little
more of everything with the 20's in the rear would not advise if they
are closer then 5ft from listener posistion. the room is 17 x 17 with a
large opening to a 12x13 den with both open doorway to kitchen.other
than the movies and music i own i used the digital video essentials for
tests.

Volume level is calibrated to 80db all the way around.

Agree with above post that 20's cannot be to close.

I have the 100's, cc690 center and adp590's in an 18x18 room.

I suppose that was an obvious question of mine.. Yes, calibrating of course makes sense. I guess what I'm getting at is the speakers seemed to lack some sensitivity, or more likely, due to the fact they're dipoles, needed to be turned up to hear the same volume in the null zone. Thanks for your input, BTW. I'm considering upgrading my 570 to a 690. Did you go straight to a 690, or an upgrade path?

I need a "which is a better value question" answered.



1. Studio 60 V.3, cc-470, adp-470 for $1800 used

or

2. Studio 100 V.4, cc-690, adp-590 for ~$4300 new


I'll be running this through a new Onkyo 805. This receiver might struggle with the 100's. Otherwise is the price difference worth the 100% + difference?

Thoughts?

I need a "which is a better value question" answered.

1. Studio 60 V.3, cc-470, adp-470 for $1800 used
or
2. Studio 100 V.4, cc-690, adp-590 for ~$4300 new

I'll be running this through a new Onkyo 805. This receiver might struggle with the 100's. Otherwise is the price difference worth the 100% + difference?

Thoughts?
You haven't mentioned a subwoofer.... it's a must with the 60s and would be money well spent with either system... just not Paradigm (good but overpriced subwoofers). If you will mainly use the system for movies, I'd go with system 1 with a subwoofer from another company, unless your room is huge. For a system that will be used more for music, the extra fullness of the 100s may be worth it to you, even with a subwoofer. The 100s still need a subwoofer if you want low bass.

Your receiver won't struggle any more with the 100s than with the 60s. Their efficiency is the same. You will be able to drive the 60s closer to their limits, but if it doesn't clip at the loudest you will play it (a subwoofer will help with that) then don't worry.

You haven't mentioned a subwoofer.... it's a must with the 60s and would be money well spent with either system... just not Paradigm (good but overpriced subwoofers). If you will mainly use the system for movies, I'd go with system 1 with a subwoofer from another company, unless your room is huge. For a system that will be used more for music, the extra fullness of the 100s may be worth it to you, even with a subwoofer. The 100s still need a subwoofer if you want low bass.

Your receiver won't struggle any more with the 100s than with the 60s. Their efficiency is the same. You will be able to drive the 60s closer to their limits, but if it doesn't clip at the loudest you will play it (a subwoofer will help with that) then don't worry.

Thanks for the reply.

My room is about 17' x 24 ft.

I will be upgrading my sub to whatever is necessary to drive a decent home theater. It won't be a weakness of the system.

I'm about 80% movies...but that may change with nicer speakers! I'm certainly no audiophile and I would say any difference would have to be more-than-subtle for me to really notice.

I suppose that was an obvious question of mine.. Yes, calibrating of course makes sense. I guess what I'm getting at is the speakers seemed to lack some sensitivity, or more likely, due to the fact they're dipoles, needed to be turned up to hear the same volume in the null zone. Thanks for your input, BTW. I'm considering upgrading my 570 to a 690. Did you go straight to a 690, or an upgrade path?

It's pretty common to expect sound from surrounds all the time, but believe me the adp's put out the volume when they are supposed to. I think it is a difference between dipoles and direct radiators. You will notice you don't hear sound from a specific spot, but all around the room (which is why I like them)

I ran into this same polarity warning for the ADP's with my denon AVR. The auto set-up mic reads the driver that is out of phase on the dipoles and flags the speaker as out of phase with the fronts. If you reverse the polarity of the external speaker connections, the warning goes away.
This is probably a bad idea. Paradigm dipoles are actually hybrids. Only the mid to high frequencies are dipole. The bass is not. Hence, reversing the polarity on the speaker terminals puts the bass out of phase with the mains. As far as the auto set-up goes, I think that it has a hard time with the dipoles and makes a bad call; I wouldn't trust it.

Ed

This is probably a bad idea. Paradigm dipoles are actually hybrids. Only the mid to high frequencies are dipole. The bass is not. Hence, reversing the polarity on the speaker terminals puts the bass out of phase with the mains. As far as the auto set-up goes, I think that it has a hard time with the dipoles and makes a bad call; I wouldn't trust it.

Ed

Interesting point about the bass no being out of phase. I knew that but didn't consider it when I switched the leads. I'll switch em back. Thanks.

hi everyone,
i have monitor 7 for the front and now thinking about getting a center channel. any
input on cc 190 20 lbs. i know it's not the recommended by paradigm but due to tv stand issue the second shelf (glass) could handle only a 30 lbs weight. cc290 is about
32 lbs so if i'm getting the cc290 it will end up in the bottom shelf and that the last thing i would do. please anyone know about cc 190. thanks.....
I have the older Monitor 5 v.3 bookshelves matched up w/ a CC-190 v.5 and have no complaints.

I have the older Monitor 5 v.3 bookshelves matched up w/ a CC-190 v.5 and have no complaints.

thanks for the reply

anymore input before i pull the trigger. please.. :)

Thanks for the reply.

My room is about 17' x 24 ft.

I will be upgrading my sub to whatever is necessary to drive a decent home theater. It won't be a weakness of the system.

I'm about 80% movies...but that may change with nicer speakers! I'm certainly no audiophile and I would say any difference would have to be more-than-subtle for me to really notice.

i would definitely go with option 2 with a sub from svs perhaps ultra13.

Thanks for the reply.

My room is about 17' x 24 ft.

I will be upgrading my sub to whatever is necessary to drive a decent home theater. It won't be a weakness of the system.

I'm about 80% movies...but that may change with nicer speakers! I'm certainly no audiophile and I would say any difference would have to be more-than-subtle for me to really notice.I use a Definitive Technology SuperCube Reference Sub with my v.3's. Highly recommended!

Okay folks... Would it be okay to combine the version 4 of the cc 590 centre speaker with the Studio 100 v.3's? I've got a great deal cooking on a new 590 and haven't located any v.3's yet.

Best advice appreciated as always.

Okay folks... Would it be okay to combine the version 4 of the cc 590 centre speaker with the Studio 100 v.3's? I've got a great deal cooking on a new 590 and haven't located any v.3's yet.

Best advice appreciated as always.
I'd go for it, many of us are using the cc690 with v.3 100's. Got my 690 a few months back, there's no way you would notice any issues with this combo!:)

I suppose that was an obvious question of mine.. Yes, calibrating of course makes sense. I guess what I'm getting at is the speakers seemed to lack some sensitivity, or more likely, due to the fact they're dipoles, needed to be turned up to hear the same volume in the null zone. Thanks for your input, BTW. I'm considering upgrading my 570 to a 690. Did you go straight to a 690, or an upgrade path?

Hey Tim, Do you shop at Stereoland? Don't know of any other dealer in the area, just curious.......

Would Studio 40's make good REAR speakers for this setup?


Studio 60 V.3
CC-470
ADP-470


It sure would be nice to go 7.1 and have a couple of nice musical speakers in the back.

I am going to connect these to my 1974 Marantz 2230. The Marantz is rated at 30 watts a channel but this was the golden age, and is very very under rated. I also love the warm sound.

I will be connecting these to a nice Marantz CD played from 3 years ago.

Will the receiver be the weak link? Should I upgrade?

I am going to connect these to my 1974 Marantz 2230. The Marantz is rated at 30 watts a channel but this was the golden age, and is very very under rated. I also love the warm sound.

I will be connecting these to a nice Marantz CD played from 3 years ago.

Will the receiver be the weak link? Should I upgrade?

"These" being Studio 60s? I use a pair of 60v3s, very easy to drive.

I have no experience with your receiver, but I have read opinions on other forum boards that vintage receivers are the way to go (as opposed to the new ones) for two channel audio. How big is the room they will be used in?

I would try to get the 60s hooked up to the Marantz to demo before purchasing.

I've done some reading on the active and passive Bi-amping. It seems that to be worth while, active is the way to go. I think I should just follow the K.I.S.S. model on this one and just do a normal wiring of the speakers.

Before you hang your hat in the active camp, check out this link (http://www.sonicfrontiers.com/HTML/TechnicalSupport/TechSupport.html#5) from Anthem.

Anyone using Paradigm's On Wall Monitor 5 speakers for there back channels? Any opinions on how these compare to in-wall speakers for the back channels?
Thanks

saw this and wanted to pass it on...


Paradigm Active 20 ver1 on ebay for cheap imo

taam

Anyone using Paradigm's On Wall Monitor 5 speakers for there back channels? Any opinions on how these compare to in-wall speakers for the back channels?
Thanks

There isn't such a speaker?:confused:

Originally posted by JOHNNYV.3
There isn't such a speaker?
I would buy them used, below is a review from 2004.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_3/paradigm-ow-speakers-8-2004.html
They are 6" deep with no port, so I could mount them against the wall for my center backs. Or maybe build a shelf into the wall for them to stand on. Not to sure why Paradigm stopped making these. I figured they would be popular for Plasma and LCD displays.

I use a definitive sub as well. I either play loud or they are not smartly constructed. The amp fuse lid loosens. Other then that, they are fine. I have studio 20's and a cc570 center. I think my dads Kefs have a more effortless mid, but the paradigms sound great to me. They are great with movies and the music I like.


I use a Definitive Technology SuperCube Reference Sub with my v.3's. Highly recommended!

I've got my old cc190v4 running with a pair of new Monitor v5 Atoms- which I love btw- in my home office. It sounds great. I replaced it with a 290 in my media room.

I would buy them used, below is a review from 2004.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_3/paradigm-ow-speakers-8-2004.html
They are 6" deep with no port, so I could mount them against the wall for my center backs. Or maybe build a shelf into the wall for them to stand on. Not to sure why Paradigm stopped making these. I figured they would be popular for Plasma and LCD displays.
I guess I don't remember those, must not have been very popular? The precursor to the Millenia it looks like.....

Hello everyone.

I posted a couple weeks ago, when I had just picked up a pair of atom monitor v5's and a cc-190 v5. I then purchased a JVC RX-D702B receiver (a particularly strong unit for the price as well) to power them.

The setup sounds pretty great, however I think my room may be too large for using atoms as mains. They are very loud, I don't have to go past volume level 26 on my receiver, but the sound just isn't big enough.
Also, the JVC will not recognize a 3.1 setup, forcing me to use a synthesized center channel sound for the cc-190 like Neo:6. Don't get me wrong though, it still sounds pretty great.
As well, I have not yet picked up a sub, looking at a couple options, but I've noticed that these speakers do not have any bass, with a sub being a tremendous must.

After hearing how it sounds in my room, I've come to the conclusion that I have to get some bigger fronts with more bass like the titan monitors (if anyone knows where I can get a pair of v5 titan monitors for a good price please pm me) and couple it with a sub that can handle a wide range of low frequency, or get a high frequency sub and a low frequency sub and have them work in tandem.

My overall expectations were not let down. I just need to finish at least a 5.1 setup to get the unleash the complete potential that these speakers have.

I'm looking for a little guidance and I am a newbie. :-)

I have the following setup right now:

Marantz SR4001
Paradigm Phantom v.2 Fronts
Paradigm CC-370 Center
Paradigm ADP-190 v.5 Surrounds
Paradigm PS-1000 Sub

My question is this: What should I set my LFE to on the Marantz and what do I set the Pass at on the Sub? It seems to me they can overlap right? I have them both set to about 80. This confuses me though - which side is taking precedence. I have everything set to SMALL on the Marantz and I've run the Avia tests using my sound meter, but I am wondering if I have the right settings on the Marantz and the Sub.

Any help or guidance/explanation appreciated. I'm really enjoying this new hobby and trying to learn as much as possible.

BTW, I really like this setup. Can't wait to upgrade all the way around, but I like it for now. Next will be the Monitor 9's. :-)

Thanks in advance,

Mark

My question is this: What should I set my LFE to on the Marantz and what do I set the Pass at on the Sub? It seems to me they can overlap right? I have them both set to about 80. This confuses me though - which side is taking precedence. I have everything set to SMALL on the Marantz and I've run the Avia tests using my sound meter, but I am wondering if I have the right settings on the Marantz and the Sub.

Set everything to small and set the pass (built-in crossover) to as high as possible on the sub. Your receiver will do the crossover properly and so ideally you shouldn't have another one in the circuit, but Paradigm chose not to allow the built-in crossover to be by-passed. Setting it as high as possible will cause the least amount of interference. It is possible that you will have peaks or dips in your room response such that changing the setting of the built-in crossover will cause a better response, but in general, set it as high as possible and forget it.

Are there any online vendors that sell Paradigm speakers?

No... at least not authorized, so if you find one you will have no warranty.

Thanks Luap.. That's what I was looking for.

I love this forum!

Take care and thanks again for helping a newbie!

Mark

Oh yeah, so should I set the Marantz to 80, 100, 110, 120, etc.? I have heard 80 is ideal.

Thoughts?

Mark

Well I went ahead and bought a pair of On Wall Monitor 5 v.3 (new in box) for $333 off of ebay for my center back channels. Now I need to find a 7.1 receiver...:) This is my first audio upgrade in my home theater since I bought my initial audio equipment over 7 years ago.

I'll sell my v5 titans in a heartbeat. not my favorite speaker unfortunately.

Oh yeah, so should I set the Marantz to 80, 100, 110, 120, etc.? I have heard 80 is ideal.

Thoughts?

Mark

try 80

I have done searches of this thread and the denon thread, as well as read both manuals which provide little information and have not found what I want..

I have a Denon 3808ci which has BiAmp capabilities and want to take advantage of it for 2 channel until I later get an amp..

How do I properly go about doing this?

When removing the jumper wires from the Studios is the internal crossover bypassed? Do I need an external crossover when biamping these speakers?

Oh yeah, so should I set the Marantz to 80, 100, 110, 120, etc.? I have heard 80 is ideal.

Thoughts?

Mark

Try them all. Listen to each setting for about a week, take a couple of notes, then decide which sounds best to you.

I have a Denon 3808ci which has BiAmp capabilities and want to take advantage of it for 2 channel until I later get an amp..

How do I properly go about doing this?

When removing the jumper wires from the Studios is the internal crossover bypassed? Do I need an external crossover when biamping these speakers?

This is called passive bi-amping. You need to read your manual about how to reassign the extra amplifier channels on the Denon. You remove the jumpers and treat the upper and lower inputs as separate speakers. Each amplifier is amplifying the full range signal but the crossover has been split so there is a low-pass effect on the woofer and a high-pass on the tweeter. The benefits of this are argued on this board and opinions range from zero difference to big difference. I think that you won't likely hear a difference, but there may be a small advantage. The effective impedance of the speaker will rise in the areas being filtered and so the current draw will be reduced and so you may get a little more headroom. The problem is that the tweeter's power consumption is insignificant compared to the woofer's so if you were clipping before you'll probably still be clipping. There may be a slight advantage in that if you're pushing the volume loud the woofer amplifier may clip because it's drawing a lot of current while the tweeter amplifier won't, and this may make your tweeter less prone to damage from clipping, but this assumes that the different amplifiers can run out of current at different times (more likely in a higher end design). If I had the channels I'd try it, but it may just cost you the extra wire for no change in sound.

Nice post Luap. I had the same question a few posts back, did some research, and came up with the same info as you posted. I was leaning away from doing it, but changed my mind and will. I should be getting my Studio 40 V4s today (woot!) and will bi-amp them with my Pioneer VSX-816. It doesn't cost anything extra to do this other that the wiring, which was not expensive anyway (Canare 4S11). It may not help much, but shouldn't hurt anythng either.

I have my studio 100v4's biamped off my Denon 4308ci. Just read the manual, it's clearly outlined in there how to do it.

I have done searches of this thread and the denon thread, as well as read both manuals which provide little information and have not found what I want..

I have a Denon 3808ci which has BiAmp capabilities and want to take advantage of it for 2 channel until I later get an amp..

How do I properly go about doing this?

When removing the jumper wires from the Studios is the internal crossover bypassed? Do I need an external crossover when biamping these speakers?

Hey all,

Thanks again for everyone's help.

I scour the forums looking for tidbits and ran across a great post on Center Channel direction. Mine is below my Panny Plasma and at about the height of 18" from the floor. It's the only place to put it, for some architectual reasons, but it clearly is firing directly into my feet when sitting on the couch or into my shins when sitting up. I'd like to direct it up because I do notice the sound difference when I stack some DVD boxes underneath it. It's a big difference also... However, that's not a long-term solution and it looks ugly.

Any ideas on how to properly and permanently provide an adjustment to the Center? Rubber Feet? Is there any off the shelf solutions?

Thanks in advance, as always,

Mark

It's pretty common to expect sound from surrounds all the time, but believe me the adp's put out the volume when they are supposed to. I think it is a difference between dipoles and direct radiators. You will notice you don't hear sound from a specific spot, but all around the room (which is why I like them)

To make up slightly for the lack of directionality, I have my ADP side surrounds calibrated to be about 2 dBs above the mains (77 dBs instead of 75).

I have my direct firing rears (Paradigm Atoms) at 76 dBs (so as to not to be too different from the side surrounds).

Any ideas on how to properly and permanently provide an adjustment to the Center? Rubber Feet? Is there any off the shelf solutions?Perhaps an office supply store has a portable wooden platform meant for angling papers up towards the reader while lecturing (like a podium does). If you turn it around it would angle the front of the speaker up and shound have a ridge to prevent the speaker from sliding off. I've never seen thos done, but I've thought about what I'll do when I get into a large flat panel screen (I use a rear projection CRT at the moment). Alternatively, if you have the space, a small wooden shoe holder with a sloping shelf (meant for an entrance or closet) could serve the same funtion if the wood is nice looking.... some small bookshalves designed to be placed on a desk or shelf have a sloping shelf for the books.

The most I've been able to do is demo the ADP-590s only, at the dealer. It seemed that the volume was relatively low compared with the fronts. I needed to set the receiver to increase the volume to the surrounds. How do you have the relative volume set for them? Any common demo material you recommend in particular? Thanks for your input..

Edit: Also, what fronts/center do you have? (this goes for anyone who's replying to my demo 590 vs 20 Q above)

The whole issue of direct vs. dipole for side surrounds really depends on your room and seating, etc. There have been huge threads on AVS debating this topic.

If you dont' mind a more narrowly focused sweet spot (lets say you have one row of seating with 3 seats), then directs may be better.

If you have a larger room, multiple rows of seats, etc -- dipoles may be better. I went with ADP 590s as my side surrounds (I used to have directs; but when I changed to a 7.1 system, I put my Atoms in the rear). You can see my room in my signature.

caeser1, nice theater, I have a couple question if you don't mind. Does having your side surrounds in front of the second row make any compromises in surround sound effect? I also have 2 rows and wasn't sure what would be the best location. Mine are currently directly to the sides of my second row. Also, I was going to put my 2 back center speakers closer togather than how you have yours, was there a reason for your placement. Thanks.

caeser1, nice theater, I have a couple question if you don't mind. Does having your side surrounds in front of the second row make any compromises in surround sound effect? I also have 2 rows and wasn't sure what would be the best location. Mine are currently directly to the sides of my second row. Also, I was going to put my 2 back center speakers closer togather than how you have yours, was there a reason for your placement. Thanks.

Side surrounds:

Well there are a couple of threads on this in the theater builder section ("two rows -- where do I put side surrounds"). It came down to two choices (or 2 schools of thought).

You either have to 1) compromise for every row or; 2) optimize for a specific row.

I chose to optimize sound for a specific row -- in my case the first row, as 90% of the time it is just my wife and I watching DVDs or HDTV. So the side surrounds are placed to the sides of the first row. It definitely compromises sound a bit in the 2nd row, but it still is acceptable. Either way, there would need to be a compromise.

If I have a larger crowd of people in the room, it may tend to be a sporting event (like the NFL on Sundays) -- where surround sound isn't so critical.

In your case, if your second row is your primary seating, then it makes sense to place them next to that row.

Back surrounds:

I went with the dolby digital model, not the THX model for rear surround placement. THX puts them real close together. Dolby has it so it should be at a certain angle from the main listening position (I forget the angle numbers) -- but that's how I came up with it. The back wall is roughly 10 feet from my main listening position, and those speakers are about 9 feet apart. (my room is 16 feet wide, so they are 3.5 feet off of each side wall).

You can see the depiction of a dolby recommended 7.1 layout here (as you can see, they have the back surrounds spread almost as wide as the fronts):

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout2.html

Hey all,

Thanks again for everyone's help.

I scour the forums looking for tidbits and ran across a great post on Center Channel direction. Mine is below my Panny Plasma and at about the height of 18" from the floor. It's the only place to put it, for some architectual reasons, but it clearly is firing directly into my feet when sitting on the couch or into my shins when sitting up. I'd like to direct it up because I do notice the sound difference when I stack some DVD boxes underneath it. It's a big difference also... However, that's not a long-term solution and it looks ugly.

Any ideas on how to properly and permanently provide an adjustment to the Center? Rubber Feet? Is there any off the shelf solutions?

Thanks in advance, as always,

Mark

Mark,
Auralex makes a great product called Mopad (http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_mopad/sound_isolation_mopad.asp). They're made to isolate your speaker from its stand and allows you to tilt the speaker. The speaker can be flat or at one of two angles up or down. I recently purchased a set for my center speaker for the isolation and it made a noticable difference.

Steve

i just noticed that the paradigm website does not list the retail $'s on their website anymore. Does anyone know what the MSRP's are for the whole studio line?
(20,40,60,100). Thanks!

I have done searches of this thread and the denon thread, as well as read both manuals which provide little information and have not found what I want..

I have a Denon 3808ci which has BiAmp capabilities and want to take advantage of it for 2 channel until I later get an amp..

How do I properly go about doing this?

When removing the jumper wires from the Studios is the internal crossover bypassed? Do I need an external crossover when biamping these speakers?

I called Denon regarding this and explained I was bi-amping studio 40's and said it did not matter, remove the jumpers, be sure to connect mains to one set (low end or high end) and surround to low end or high end. I wonder if he internal speaker crossover is still being used....

First time poster with a question for all you experts. I just finished my system with 2 ADP-390s. Problem is my room is 13x25 and my tv is on the 25 wall. Where do I mount the rears. Side wall is to far away and the listening position is only a foot or so from the rear wall. Help!

I called Denon regarding this and explained I was bi-amping studio 40's and said it did not matter, remove the jumpers, be sure to connect mains to one set (low end or high end) and surround to low end or high end. I wonder if he internal speaker crossover is still being used....

Yes the internal crossover is being used. Check out this link. (http://www.sonicfrontiers.com/HTML/TechnicalSupport/TechSupport.html#5)

can you guys tell me anything about these particular speakers?
I found an ad listing them for 150$ I was wondering if they are worth that price.
Any info on them is much appreciated http://images.craigslist.org/01011001030901040320070917129f94871f81318204003014.jpg

First time poster with a question for all you experts. I just finished my system with 2 ADP-390s. Problem is my room is 13x25 and my tv is on the 25 wall. Where do I mount the rears. Side wall is to far away and the listening position is only a foot or so from the rear wall. Help!

ADP's are really designed to be mounted on the side walls. You might not
be too far at 25ft. I'd at least give it a listen. If you do put them behind you,
do not mount them too far apart. Di-poles are designed that you sit in the null, or where the speaker is pointed. This holds true for side mounting or rear mounting.

Hey all,

Thanks again for everyone's help.

I scour the forums looking for tidbits and ran across a great post on Center Channel direction. Mine is below my Panny Plasma and at about the height of 18" from the floor. It's the only place to put it, for some architectual reasons, but it clearly is firing directly into my feet when sitting on the couch or into my shins when sitting up. I'd like to direct it up because I do notice the sound difference when I stack some DVD boxes underneath it. It's a big difference also... However, that's not a long-term solution and it looks ugly.

Any ideas on how to properly and permanently provide an adjustment to the Center? Rubber Feet? Is there any off the shelf solutions?

Thanks in advance, as always,

Mark

Depending on how much lift you need in the front, you could use a set of component isolation feet like these in the front:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=240-721

And small rubber feet or blu tak in the rear.

I have a question regarding crossover and the ADP-470 v3. I currently have the setting at 60Hz. The speaker specs are: Low Frequency Extension 58Hz (DIN), and +/- 2 dB from 90 Hz - 22 kHz. Is this setting stretching the output of the speaker? My receiver has a crossover that applies to all the speakers. My mains are the Studio 100s v3, so I want to make this as low as possible.

I have a question regarding crossover and the ADP-470 v3. I currently have the setting at 60Hz. The speaker specs are: Low Frequency Extension 58Hz (DIN), and +/- 2 dB from 90 Hz - 22 kHz. Is this setting stretching the output of the speaker? My receiver has a crossover that applies to all the speakers. My mains are the Studio 100s v3, so I want to make this as low as possible.

80 or 90Hz would probably be better for the ADP's. My Denon auto set-up chose 90Hz for my Signature ADP's. As a compromise, you might want to go 80Hz since you only have one setting. Many people with even large floorstanders like the 100's still use an 80hz x-over.

First time poster with a question for all you experts. I just finished my system with 2 ADP-390s. Problem is my room is 13x25 and my tv is on the 25 wall. Where do I mount the rears. Side wall is to far away and the listening position is only a foot or so from the rear wall. Help!

I agree with Swgiust. Another idea, perhaps you can find or make a ceiling mount. I’ve also seen them mounted directly on the ceiling with the front facing downward….but never tried it myself. Something to think about….

Need some advice on Signatures vs Studios (again :) )

I have the opportunity to buy a Studio 60 setup (with cc-470 and adp-470)

or

Signature S8 and C5 (no surrounds).

Both are used but the Sigs are about 2.5 times the price of the entire Studio setup.

My struggle is with what kind of incremental improvement I will see with them. For those that have demo'd both speaker lines are we talking a marginal improvement from the Studios to the Sigs, or is this a major difference? Bear in mind, I like my audio stuff, but I am no audiophile. Value is important to me, but I'm willing to invest in some great speakers as I keep my for long periods of time.

Thanks!

80 or 90Hz would probably be better for the ADP's. My Denon auto set-up chose 90Hz for my Signature ADP's. As a compromise, you might want to go 80Hz since you only have one setting. Many people with even large floorstanders like the 100's still use an 80hz x-over.

Thanks for the response, set the crossover at 80Hz and calibrated it. Did not have the opportunity to do much listening (wife was home working).

Can someone give me an idea what I can expect to pay for the
Cinema™ 110 CT System?

Need some advice on Signatures vs Studios (again :) )

I have the opportunity to buy a Studio 60 setup (with cc-470 and adp-470)

or

Signature S8 and C5 (no surrounds).

Both are used but the Sigs are about 2.5 times the price of the entire Studio setup.

My struggle is with what kind of incremental improvement I will see with them. For those that have demo'd both speaker lines are we talking a marginal improvement from the Studios to the Sigs, or is this a major difference? Bear in mind, I like my audio stuff, but I am no audiophile. Value is important to me, but I'm willing to invest in some great speakers as I keep my for long periods of time.

Thanks!

I am going to assume that you are going to use this for home theater.
If this is true, and you have a budget, I would go with the Studio series and spend the difference on a good sub-woofer. Something in the $ 1500 range.

The S8 are quite a jump from the S60's. Physically and sound wise.
Have you priced the 100's and the cc-690? Might be the perfect comprimise.

I am going to assume that you are going to use this for home theater.
If this is true, and you have a budget, I would go with the Studio series and spend the difference on a good sub-woofer. Something in the $ 1500 range.

The S8 are quite a jump from the S60's. Physically and sound wise.
Have you priced the 100's and the cc-690? Might be the perfect comprimise.

Thanks for the reply.

Both deals are for used speakers, so it's a bit tough to compare to anything new....

I mostly do HT and I will have to be running this through a 130 wpc Onkyo Ultra2 receiver (805) for at least the next while. I'm just not sure if my ears would really benefit from the S8.

I would go with Studio 100's and the CC-690 (good for a horizontal speaker since a matching vertical speaker would be better, though you'd need an acoustic screen, and pretty seamless-- kinda rare) version 4's. They are quite an improvement over Paradigm's previous attempts. They do need a good sub (I have an HSU w/o the turbo), however, as they aren't the most articulate in the lower bass regions-- the one knock I'd give them. For that the Signature's are far superior due to heavier driver baskets and a more solid cabinet. I have my crossover set at 60 Hz (about one octave above the 40 Hz range where the 100's start to lose focus). I plan on getting another pair of 100's for the sides and 40's for the back.

If the used Studios aren't version 4's then I would save up and do new. Yes, the Sigs v.2's are much better across the board, but you indeed have to pay a premium.

The Studio's and Signature's (new versions) IMHO are sonically more realistic and neutral/clearer than the much touted av123 Rocket line; the latter was way too treble-heavy and slightly sibilant due to the metal drivers... though if you didn't audition other speakers as well then the Rockets, to the lay person, would seem very good (and they aren't a bad speaker by any means). I've demoed both and bought the Paradigms. Well recorded piano music was just awesome on both Studio and Signature lines, and when I got my Studio 100's home I played some Legends of Jazz on Blu-ray and I could swear the jazz pianist, Dave Bruebeck was playing in the living room it was so realistically reproduced.

Fair warning: The Studio and Signature lines need some good, clean amplifiers to really make them shine. I'm driving my Studio 100's with about 200 watts/channel. The dealer had them hooked to a Rotel receiver at 100 watts/channel and they sounded much better at home.

The Studio line and the Signature line seem to have their wood finishing names mixed up on the Paradigm website. The Studio's cherry finish looks like a dark maple or light oak (what I bought) and their deeper red finish is called rosewood. But the almost exact red finish on the Signatures is called cherry, and the finish that's similar to the Studio's cherry is called maple. Hmmm.

Dan

Have any of you auditioned the CC-590 vs the 690? I've just aquired a great used pair of Studio 100's v.3 and I'm using them with a 92" screen. People keep telling me that the 690 is overkill and the 590 would work perfect with my 100 v.3's in my set-up. I sit aproximately 11 feet from the screen. I'm driving the system with a Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver at 130 watts per channel. I can purchase the 590 for around $750 and the 690 for $1,000 so the cost is just a small factor.

Any comments?

Have any of you auditioned the CC-590 vs the 690? I've just aquired a great used pair of Studio 100's v.3 and I'm using them with a 92" screen. People keep telling me that the 690 is overkill and the 590 would work perfect with my 100 v.3's in my set-up. I sit aproximately 11 feet from the screen. I'm driving the system with a Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver at 130 watts per channel. I can purchase the 590 for around $750 and the 690 for $1,000 so the cost is just a small factor.

Any comments?

Auditioned the 590 at the dealer and the CC690 @ home.. Although it wasnt an A-B comparison, once the 690's got broken in, with 5 channel stereo music i noticed the 690s contributed greatly to fullness just as much if not more that the 100s in the bass region. I was actually impressed at how much bass the 690's had in them.. In my opinion, the 690 is definitely worth it because in Movies, the center channel is the most important speaker..

Its not overkill, because you get more midrange drivers compared to the 590, if anything you will have more detailed dialog from movies with this monster..

Do I have to mention I really, really love this center..

I would go with Studio 100's and the CC-690 (good for a horizontal speaker since a matching vertical speaker would be better, though you'd need an acoustic screen, and pretty seamless-- kinda rare) version 4's. They are quite an improvement over Paradigm's previous attempts. They do need a good sub (I have an HSU w/o the turbo), however, as they aren't the most articulate in the lower bass regions-- the one knock I'd give them. For that the Signature's are far superior due to heavier driver baskets and a more solid cabinet. I have my crossover set at 60 Hz (about one octave above the 40 Hz range where the 100's start to lose focus). I plan on getting another pair of 100's for the sides and 40's for the back.

If the used Studios aren't version 4's then I would save up and do new. Yes, the Sigs v.2's are much better across the board, but you indeed have to pay a premium.

The Studio's and Signature's (new versions) IMHO are sonically more realistic and neutral/clearer than the much touted av123 Rocket line; the latter was way too treble-heavy and slightly sibilant due to the metal drivers... though if you didn't audition other speakers as well then the Rockets, to the lay person, would seem very good (and they aren't a bad speaker by any means). I've demoed both and bought the Paradigms. Well recorded piano music was just awesome on both Studio and Signature lines, and when I got my Studio 100's home I played some Legends of Jazz on Blu-ray and I could swear the jazz pianist, Dave Bruebeck was playing in the living room it was so realistically reproduced.

Fair warning: The Studio and Signature lines need some good, clean amplifiers to really make them shine. I'm driving my Studio 100's with about 200 watts/channel. The dealer had them hooked to a Rotel receiver at 100 watts/channel and they sounded much better at home.

The Studio line and the Signature line seem to have their wood finishing names mixed up on the Paradigm website. The Studio's cherry finish looks like a dark maple or light oak (what I bought) and their deeper red finish is called rosewood. But the almost exact red finish on the Signatures is called cherry, and the finish that's similar to the Studio's cherry is called maple. Hmmm.

Dan


Dan, what amp are you using?

ATI 1505. The written specs. of 150 watts/channel are very conservative and it has been reviewed as going into the 200 watts/channel realm cleanly.

It's a nice smooth yet detailed amp, as are most ATI amps, and built like a tank. They build products to spec. for other A/V companies in the US (surprising these days), including Outlaw. However, ATI's house brand uses better overall parts than their Outlaw OEM products so Outlaw can keep the prices more reasonable.

However, I would like to at some point get some Parasound Halo amps or similar higher end product.

Dan

Have any of you auditioned the CC-590 vs the 690? I've just aquired a great used pair of Studio 100's v.3 and I'm using them with a 92" screen. People keep telling me that the 690 is overkill and the 590 would work perfect with my 100 v.3's in my set-up. I sit aproximately 11 feet from the screen. I'm driving the system with a Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver at 130 watts per channel. I can purchase the 590 for around $750 and the 690 for $1,000 so the cost is just a small factor.

Any comments?

I second the CC-690. It is VERY important for the center to be as good or slightly better than the front L/R speakers since the all important movie dialog is anchored there-- I kind of like directionalized dialog myself rather than having it mono focused no matter where the character speaking is on screen, but alas that seems to have gone out with the roadshow epics. In multi-channel music sometimes the vocals are placed dead center as well. The 690 seems more timbrally matched to the 100 towers. You should have a seamless front soundstage at the very least, and at best all speakers around you should be voiced the same as well.

Dan

Fair warning: The Studio and Signature lines need some good, clean amplifiers to really make them shine. I'm driving my Studio 100's with about 200 watts/channel. The dealer had them hooked to a Rotel receiver at 100 watts/channel and they sounded much better at home.

Dan

I have to respectfully disagree here. The power requirements of a speaker is dictated by its sensitivity and imepedance curve. The Paradigm Studio's and Signatures are relatively efficient with a sensitivity rating of 91dB for 1 watt in-room. Sure their impedance drops to 4 Ohms in the upper/mid bass, but through the rest of their range the impedance fluctuates bewteen 8 and 20 Ohms. At even moderately loud listening levels an upper-end AVR (like a THX Ultra certified model) can drive them easily.

I used to own the S8's (V1) and drove them to 105dB peaks at 8 feet with a Denon 5800 AVR, just to see what they could do. No distortion, no clipping, no loss of control. Just crystal clear sound at a much higher volume than I would ever actually listen to.

Besides the difference in output between a 100 watt amp and a 200 watt amp is only 3dB at the top of the amp's output.

Are the ADP 390 and ADP 190 wall mounted speakers? If so are they still in production? I went to demo some Paradigm speakers at a local HT shop and they claimed they (Paradigm) does not make any ON WALL speakers any more...However in their 2007 catalog there are shown and listed in there. At least they look like they can be mounted on the wall.

Have any of you auditioned the CC-590 vs the 690? I've just aquired a great used pair of Studio 100's v.3 and I'm using them with a 92" screen. People keep telling me that the 690 is overkill and the 590 would work perfect with my 100 v.3's in my set-up. I sit aproximately 11 feet from the screen. I'm driving the system with a Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver at 130 watts per channel. I can purchase the 590 for around $750 and the 690 for $1,000 so the cost is just a small factor.

Any comments?

As a full line dealer of Paradigm, there are numerous installations where I mixed speakers from among the multiple series and levels of performance within the Paradigm product line.

My experience tells me the following (let the shoe fit if appropriate):

Most HT enthusiasts use a less than desirable speaker cabling, many times just plain ol' zip cord. Thus the A/B issue is almost always a mute point when listening in the Showroom vs at home. Stepping up to respected (albeit costly) cabling flattens the playing field immensely at every level. Especially when the clarity of speech and depth of sonic field is what this HT is all about! GIGO= garbage in , garbage out.

A high quality subwoofer of 10" or greater using traditional amplification design (not Bash) will provide the greatest damping factor and control over bass frequencies. Add to this equation, a very good Subwoofer cable. Not someones interconnect that is claimed to be "dual use". In fact, a powered subwoofer cable such as those produced by Audioquest clearly outperform just about anything I have heard in my showroom. Subs used in the test included: Thiel, Paradigm, REL, SVS and Snell. The effect was like elevating the sub model or the Amplification incrementally 2 levels. NOT a subtle difference.

The choice between the CC590, 690, the middle range 290, 390 or the reference series is a actually very simple. If you think of the Entire lineage as a family, the DNA from model to model is basically the same however the physical attributes vary slightly, ie male vs female, tall - mid - short, In shape vs out of shape, finely vs so-so conditioning. Simple enough? Ok, now as to selecting what model.

The Paradigm Center channel speakers are very capable of producing prodigious amounts of tight deep bass. Sometimes too much, especially if the crossover setting on the receiver are incorrect or center channel level set to high. This leads to the renowned chestiness to male voices or sluggish overhang on bass notes. Not desirable at any price. Better to be a lean, mean, sound machine!

It is my opinion the 590-690 is overkill in your environment given that other than distance you provide no other physical elements of your listening room.
(Wall, ceiling - Sheetrock vs suspended, floor construction & height, sound insulation in the walls, furniture, and YES the quality of your current speaker cabling!).

Each and every item will play a significant role in producing (or not) reasonably accurate and satisfying bass frequencies. Rooms with dropped ceilings will get suck out, walls without insulation do the same. It could well be the 590-690 are OVER performing and are locked into a sonic node adding to the bass response. Unless your room is 2000cubic ft or greater and you listen at levels of 95db or greater all the time, the 590-690 is uncalled for. Why buy more speaker than you need, unless you want to pay for producing bass that is felt in the floors and walls in rooms 2 floors away because thats where most of the SPL will be going causing you to raise the volume at your normal listening space and continue this sonic circle.

The sweet spot in the Paradigm line is the CC290-390 which use the same drivers as the higher numbered models and are the models used as the template for the larger units. These can play at 100db all day long.
Notwithstanding saving a few dollars to buy better cabling!

A note on cabling. Make sure your dealer will allow you to take home several pairs of the length you need, and test them for a few days with your system. This will be a reward you never counted on. Here's a simple analogy: You bought a New Corvette, Ferrari or Viper. Would you put in 99cents generic discount store spark plugs? or Platinum tipped model specific plugs?
Get my point?

This litany may be boorish, condescending or simplistic to thread followers, I assure you my intentions come from a good place using my over 40 years in the audio retailing industry. Bigger is not always better!

Good listening!

I'm running a 2.0 system of Paradigm 60's on a NAD C325BEE (50 watts x 2 channels). No clipping, sounds amazing and I can crank them loud enough to permanent damage my hearing and reputation with the neighbors in my apartment. Love the 60's and the NAD.

Are the ADP 390 and ADP 190 wall mounted speakers? If so are they still in production? I went to demo some Paradigm speakers at a local HT shop and they claimed they (Paradigm) does not make any ON WALL speakers any more...However in their 2007 catalog there are shown and listed in there. At least they look like they can be mounted on the wall.

The Cinema series is VERY much alive and healthy in the Paradigm line. It represents a strong segment of Paradigms HT offerings and will be around for a long long time. I would find another dealer quickly!!!!!!
Also be sure to call Paradigm at (905) 564-1994 and advise them of the dealers claims. You'd be surprised how many dealers walk the thin line of product support for items whose profit margins are slim to none at the expense of providing the customer the best sonics for a given price point.

The ADP/ Cinema series are perfect for rooms under 1500 cubic ft or for HT enthusiasts on a limited budget, live in apartments or desire to second systems in bedrooms or studies.

They are very good sounding systems all things considerd. Your biggest decision will be to match a subwoofer which will equal or surpass the fast sonics of this line or speakers. Some of Paradigm subs just don't cut it. I would look to HSU for a good match at this price point. Don't forget the use of real quality cabling!!! Read my comments in an earlier post.

Hi folks,

Not a Paradigm owner just yet, but it's only a matter of time :D

Question regarding center channel choices: I currently have the opportunity to purchase a new (for all intents and purposes) single Titan at a discounted price (dealer had a customer who wanted to purchase one for a center but could only order them in pairs).

I'm currently considering purchasing a pair of Titans myself. What is the general thought on using the single Titan as a center matched with a pair of Titans as mains? What about laying it on its side (well, still seems kind of massive for a center, but slightly less conspicuous on its side)?

Thanks - any input would be appreciated.

Hi folks,

Not a Paradigm owner just yet, but it's only a matter of time :D

Question regarding center channel choices: I currently have the opportunity to purchase a new (for all intents and purposes) single Titan at a discounted price (dealer had a customer who wanted to purchase one for a center but could only order them in pairs).

I'm currently considering purchasing a pair of Titans myself. What is the general thought on using the single Titan as a center matched with a pair of Titans as mains? What about laying it on its side (well, still seems kind of massive for a center, but slightly less conspicuous on its side)?

Thanks - any input would be appreciated.

While the Titan & Mini Monitors are very much in the vein of the "ATOM"S, their one tweeter is designed for vertical firing could cause a significant amount of "beaming" at the uppers mids to highs contributed by the use of ONE Tweeter. Your first choice here should be a CC290. Thus the CC290 came into the lineup as virtually 2 Mini Monitors connected in the middle with 2 midranges and a single tweeter and rear ported.

The Titan is front ported which may produce a mismatch in level as it is slightly more efficient at the same input wattage and may be called upon to do work it wasn't designed for(center channel). Thereby overdriving its single midrange unit and increasing port noise.

My suggestion is to choose the Mini Monitor over the Titans in a head to head comparison. You will find the Titans tend to cuff more(port noise) and a equal sound levels the Mini's will sound more lively and realistic with a wider/deeper soundstage. As for power handling, both are identical. Moreover, the low frequency cutoff is irrelevant as those frequencies will be cutover to the Subwoofer.
Hope that helps!

I have to respectfully disagree here. The power requirements of a speaker is dictated by its sensitivity and imepedance curve. The Paradigm Studio's and Signatures are relatively efficient with a sensitivity rating of 91dB for 1 watt in-room. Sure their impedance drops to 4 Ohms in the upper/mid bass, but through the rest of their range the impedance fluctuates bewteen 8 and 20 Ohms. At even moderately loud listening levels an upper-end AVR (like a THX Ultra certified model) can drive them easily.

I used to own the S8's (V1) and drove them to 105dB peaks at 8 feet with a Denon 5800 AVR, just to see what they could do. No distortion, no clipping, no loss of control. Just crystal clear sound at a much higher volume than I would ever actually listen to.

Besides the difference in output between a 100 watt amp and a 200 watt amp is only 3dB at the top of the amp's output.
I agree with HIFI, I own and use the Rotel 1067 which sounds like what the dealer was using and it's plenty of power, I also don't think a higher powered amp is going to make that much of an improvement. My dealer uses high-end anthem gear and I actually like the sound of the Rotel better.......

Are the ADP 390 and ADP 190 wall mounted speakers? If so are they still in production? I went to demo some Paradigm speakers at a local HT shop and they claimed they (Paradigm) does not make any ON WALL speakers any more...However in their 2007 catalog there are shown and listed in there. At least they look like they can be mounted on the wall.
All adp speakers are wall mounted, but they are surrounds, not fronts, which is what most people are talking about if you say on wall. You can also wall mount any of the smaller paradigm speakers on the wall using proper wall or ceiling mounts, but again they are not really considered "onwall" speakers....

When I mentioned the ADP 390 and 190, I was speaking about the MONITOR series..I forgot to mention that in my original post. Yes these would be surrounds...

CC370 Center
2x Monitor 9's Fronts
2x Monitor 9's Rears
Rotel RSP1066 Preamp
Rotel RMB 1075 (I think this the model #) Amp

When I mentioned the ADP 390 and 190, I was speaking about the MONITOR series..I forgot to mention that in my original post. Yes these would be surrounds...And yes, they do mount on the wall and are available. I can't understand why a Paradigm dealer worth anything would say the adp's do not mount on the wall. I own the Studio line, so I have not shopped for monitors, but I can't imagine they would be on the website if they are no longer made.. Does that dealer carry any adp's?

Stepping up to respected (albeit costly) cabling flattens the playing field immensely at every level. Especially when the clarity of speech and depth of sonic field is what this HT is all about! GIGO= garbage in , garbage out. Copper is copper if you have a reasonably thick wire.

Add to this equation, a very good Subwoofer cable. Not someones interconnect that is claimed to be "dual use". In fact, a powered subwoofer cable such as those produced by Audioquest clearly outperform just about nything I have heard in my showroom. I don't believe in cheapo garbage cables, but the next step up is all you need. Just what do you think these overprices cables are accomplishing?

The Paradigm Center channel speakers are very capable of producing prodigious amounts of tight deep bass. No Paradigm speaker currently made produces deep bass.

The sweet spot in the Paradigm line is the CC290-390 which use the same drivers as the higher numbered models and are the models used as the template for the larger units. These can play at 100db all day long.
Notwithstanding saving a few dollars to buy better cabling! The CC290 and CC390 do not use the same drivers as higher numbered models. The higher models are from the studio series and use different drivers which sound different. I'd mix the surrounds but not the centre and mains between lines. And please don't buy the expensive cabling.

A note on cabling. Make sure your dealer will allow you to take home several pairs of the length you need, and test them for a few days with your system. This will be a reward you never counted on. Here's a simple analogy: You bought a New Corvette, Ferrari or Viper. Would you put in 99cents generic discount store spark plugs? or Platinum tipped model specific plugs?
Get my point?
By all means, take home the various overpriced cables. Get someone to lay them all out next to each other and change them without you knowing which are actually connected. As long as you use thick enough cable, you shouldn't be able to hear a difference, and if you do, the cable that sounds different is something to avoid.

All you need is Belden 10 AWG from Bluejeanscable.com. Very affordable, very thick, quality copper and jacket. I just received 200 feet of the stuff. Absolutely awesome.

WBT terminators are great if you want ultra quality... even Bluejeanscable sells some decent locking banana plugs at a low price.

The cable won't win any beauty contests, but it's more than you'll ever need.

Dan

All you need is Belden 10 AWG from Bluejeanscable.com. Very affordable, very thick, quality copper and jacket. I just received 200 feet of the stuff. Absolutely awesome.

WBT terminators are great if you want ultra quality... even Bluejeanscable sells some decent locking banana plugs at a low price.

The cable won't win any beauty contests, but it's more than you'll ever need.

Dan

thats all i use and its priced right.

As a full line dealer of Paradigm, there are numerous installations where I mixed speakers from among the multiple series and levels of performance within the Paradigm product line.

Kudos to you for explaining your occupation, :) Great to have a Paradigm dealer participate here. I sometimes get the feeling so many of the anonymous posters at AVS are really reps of particular lines, but come across as just your average Joe audiophile.

That being said, you have an uphill battle here concerning cabling, as you can see from the above post. I've noticed this is pretty much the majority view at AVS. Might as will not even go there.:D

As a full line dealer of Paradigm,
That would explain the push for high over priced cables.

My banana plugs do not fit very snug in the back of my Studio speakers. I've had them for over a year, but I've always been concerned about the connection because the plugs seem to be able to be pulled out easily.

Is this how everyone else's are?

Will there be a noticable audible difference if I replace them? Where?

This is what I use:
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/72736

My banana plugs do not fit very snug in the back of my Studio speakers. I've had them for over a year, but I've always been concerned about the connection because the plugs seem to be able to be pulled out easily.

Is this how everyone else's are?

Will there be a noticable audible difference if I replace them? Where?

loose connections on any electrical component is bad as was stated earlier
blue jeans have some resonable priced locking bananas.

Current set up:

Studio 100's front
CC690 Center
ADP 590's side surrounds.


I will be adding another pair of ADPs for back surrounds.

My back wall has a large french door, so the speakers will be up fairly high.
Or I can place them on the slanted ceiling, they will be higher, but they will
be pointing down at about a 30 deg angle.

Any ideas??

Room is 18x18 with a vaulted ceiling. Carpet floor, GIK panels and bass traps.
Couch is approx 30" from back wall.

Current set up:

Studio 100's front
CC690 Center
ADP 590's side surrounds.


I will be adding another pair of ADPs for back surrounds.



Why ADPs for back surrounds? I thought dipoles were more recommended for side surrounds, and directs for rear surrounds?

I can't get regular speakers behind my couch. I could put them way up high,
over the door, but I still feel they are to close.

I think dipoles can work for rear surrounds as long as you don't space them out too much. Keep your seating positions in the null.

I can't get regular speakers behind my couch. I could put them way up high,
over the door, but I still feel they are to close.

I think dipoles can work for rear surrounds as long as you don't space them out too much. Keep your seating positions in the null.

I think this might be tricky....the sound will be blasting against the back of the side walls. I'm not sure how happy you will be with the setup. Usually direct radiators are recommended for the back surrounds.

I've also heard people who use dipoles as rear surrounds mounting them on the ceiling facing back, as this gets the proper bounce of sound into the rear sound field.

Why ADPs for back surrounds? I thought dipoles were more recommended for side surrounds, and directs for rear surrounds?

You should be okay with either.

You should be okay with either.

Directs only, never seen a movie theater with dipoles yet, lol..........

Where do you find the MSRP for Paradigm speakers? I am interested in:

Studio 20
Studio 60
CC-590/690
Servo-15

I've got a question,

For those of us with the Monitor Line from Paradigm, whats the consensus on their sound/quality. I'm curious since I don't hear much talked about them.

Are they comparable to say Swan 5.1's, Rocket 750/850's, or Monitor speakers?
These are often much talked about on the forum but since I have never heard them, I'm curious if these speakers are all in the same relative group sound wise or if there is some large gap in their performance?

I'm curious as with some of these great sales going on currently I might pick up another set of fronts for 2 channel music in another room if people say that those speakers suggested are a few steps above the Paradigm Monitor line. If they are all "similar" in their ranges then I may not bother.

Anyway thanks for the help and/or discussion, my current speakers are Monitor 11's v.5, 390center and ADP 390's rear.

Where do you find the MSRP for Paradigm speakers? I am interested in:

Studio 20
Studio 60
CC-590/690
Servo-15

The Studio v.4:
Studio 20 – 2-driver 2-way bookshelf: 7˝ bass/mid, 1˝ G-PAL; $899/pr
Studio 60 – 3-driver 2.5-way floorstanding: 7˝ bass, 7˝ mid/bass, 1˝ G-PAL; $1,799/pr
CC-590 – 4-driver 3-way center: 2 x 7˝ bass, 4.5˝ mid, 1˝ G-PAL; $899/ea
CC-690 – 6-driver 3.5-way center: 2 x 7˝ bass, 2 x 7˝ mid/bass, 4.5˝ mid, 1˝ G-PAL; $1,199/ea
Servo-15v2 - $2200

All prices in $US
Directs only, never seen a movie theater with dipoles yet, lol..........

I've also never seen any theater with audio quality anywhere near what's capable with home theater and/or surround music now, nor any home theater with 7 rows of direct surrounds on either side of the listening area.

:)

If you're using dipoles for your surrounds, there's nothing wrong with using dipoles for your rears either, even though my personal preference is for directs everywhere. My surrounds are floorstanding Monitor 11v4's.

Anyway thanks for the help and/or discussion, my current speakers are Monitor 11's v.5, 390center and ADP 390's rear.

You have excellent speakers in my opinion and they are well worth the money, but there will always be better speakers and the manufacturers will depend on who you talk to.

That's why at the end of the day doing some listening with material you're familiar with is important. If you want to listen to SACD's for example, take your player to the dealer and tell him you want to listen to "these discs" and audition "those speakers" - most dealers should be happy to oblige unless you've done it several times before and never actually bought anything.

Thanks for the reply Doby,
Unfortunately the Swans and Rockets are both mail order only speakers which is why I wondered if anyone could compare them or offer advice.

I do think the monitor line is great value for money, but I also know there are better speakers too. I'm just wondering if I these I mentioned are "better" or just more popular because they are cheaper? I mean NO ONE talks about the monitor line from Paradigm, there isnt even an "official" thread and posts in this one last for a split second before being taken over by Studio discussion. (Not a bad thing)

It makes Monitor owners (at least me) wonder with no discussions to be found and for the price of these other speakers currently, I'm simply wondering if they really are good quality. (I can at least find reviews about them and threads saying they are great) and if they are, I might pick up another set. (This hobby is going to bankrupt me :D)

You can find a number of posts about the Monitor line in this thread, but it's generally more along the lines of when they are first released.

Generally anyone that posts is happy with their speakers, but much like any line of speakers it's normally the top line or two that are discussed and in Paradigm's case that's the Studio and Signature lines.

The relevant posts can be found here - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=7297490

Thanks Doby,
but no need for me to search, before I bought mine I read the ENTIRE paradigm thread were typing in :) It took a while but I did it.

I'm happy with mine also, its just that there is not much discussed about these and I don't think "The official Paradigm Monitor" thread would be met with much success unfortunately. :(

We'll see what happens, I may pick up a set of either Swans or Rockets and do my own comparison, that should keep me from bothering people on forums for a bit. :D

I've yet to hear anything negative about Swan's speakers from anyone.

Thanks for the reply Doby,
Unfortunately the Swans and Rockets are both mail order only speakers which is why I wondered if anyone could compare them or offer advice.

I do think the monitor line is great value for money, but I also know there are better speakers too. I'm just wondering if I these I mentioned are "better" or just more popular because they are cheaper? I mean NO ONE talks about the monitor line from Paradigm, there isnt even an "official" thread and posts in this one last for a split second before being taken over by Studio discussion. (Not a bad thing)

It makes Monitor owners (at least me) wonder with no discussions to be found and for the price of these other speakers currently, I'm simply wondering if they really are good quality. (I can at least find reviews about them and threads saying they are great) and if they are, I might pick up another set. (This hobby is going to bankrupt me :D)

I, personally, think that the Monitor line can be bested by many brands in that price/performance category.

However, I did like the Paradigm Studio and Sigs much better overall than the Rocket speakers I heard recently before choosing to get some Studio 100's. The Rockets remind me of Thiel speakers: Metallic and bracing comes to mind... the Vifa tweeter is good and extended without breakup with great imaging, but the aluminum drivers made a negative impact to the balance, especially for vocals. Not comfortable over long term listening IMHO. Bass was a bit tighter and lower on the Rocket 850's than the Studio 100's, but even the 850's benefited from augmentation by a sealed music sub like the 10" Rocket.

Dan,
I heard from someone that compared the Monitor line to the Rockets that they were less "bright" than the Paradigms, you feel the opposite?

Are you saying the Rockets are a more direct comparison to the Studio line than the Monitor line?
Doby, I also have heard very little negative talk about the swans, and really, the look of either bests the Monitor's looks (which I must admit weighs in to my decision to try these out).
At least there is SOME talk going on about monitor speakers now :D

I'm saying the Studio v.4's are more in line with the Rockets. This is where I feel the treble/mid is superior on the Studio 100's vs. the Rocket RS-850's.

Voices and instruments liked plucked strings, pianos, and guitars sounded almost spookily real on the Studios (or at least had a better approximation to the recording). The RS-850's had a metallic coloration and sibilance. Dialog sounded like it was slightly hollow as if missing some weight or mid-bass presence. Cutting to my ears after a while. It was like the upper octaves were pushed too high up the ladder whereas the Paradigm's were just right. And this was listening to both in direct mode without processing engaged.

The Rocket bigfoot center is described as big and it is, but the Studio CC-690 is even bigger and more like a Studio 100 laid on its side! The CC-690, for a horizontal speaker, was not congested/nasally or boxy sounding (a rare treat for a so-called center speaker), but again more like a 100 tipped over. This helps in creating a seamless soundstage for movie effects panning/dialog panning and surround music recordings.

That said, if you need to fill a large living room or dedicated theater and you don't mind investing more, the Signature v.2 line was that much better to my ears. The drivers and cabinets are more robust and can handle the volume increase better, and the bass was more pronounced and solid. It would have to be for the price increase!

I am new to this forum, but have posted in the audiophile forum.

I have the monitor 7s coupled with a PDR 12 and a Center 290. I use Atoms as surrounds. The monitor line does well I think, for what it is, what they cost and are very good entry level speakers. This is why I went with monitors v the studio line. I was new to HT about a year ago. At the time I was very impressed with the Monitors, but over the course of a year you start to notice and or wnated things, like a fuller sound, or you notice more the general brightness of a speaker. And to start, you just never know how serious you are going to get about sound - also I have toddler running around and didn't want to have 3K speakers get stabbed by a spatula.

That said, I can upgrade with my dealer before the end of the year and apply the price I paid towards the new speakers. I will probably upgrade. But its not because the Monitors are good quality - they are - in fact I will audition the 9s and 11s v. the studio lin'tne and unless I hear a significant difference, I will stay with the monitors. But, I expect there to a difference (I did audition them before, but not side-by-side), and the build quality is significantly better with the Studio line.

My biggest issues are replacing the Sub - the PDR could do better, and upgrading my receiver to accommodate a C690 and Studio 100s (I listen to alot of music and the room is over 2500 cubic feet).

Re the sub - sonically I understand I don't need to stay with paradigm for a sub and also that if I did stay with paradigm, I might have to go all the way up to a servo to equal the base quality of a mid-line SVS - do people in this forum agree with that?

Finally, I am looking at an Onkyo 805 and Denon 2808, but I am leaning toward the 805 because of power and THX certification, especially if I end up with 100s. Would that work alright - I think I saw someone else write that the 805 should be able to drive the 100s just fine? My listening volume varies quite a bit, but late at night I'd like to make sure that I have enough power to hear everything at a fairly low volume.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated -

I am new to this forum, but have posted in the audiophile forum.

I have the monitor 7s coupled with a PDR 12 and a Center 290. I use Atoms as surrounds. The monitor line does well I think, for what it is, what they cost and are very good entry level speakers. This is why I went with monitors v the studio line. I was new to HT about a year ago. At the time I was very impressed with the Monitors, but over the course of a year you start to notice and or wnated things, like a fuller sound, or you notice more the general brightness of a speaker. And to start, you just never know how serious you are going to get about sound - also I have toddler running around and didn't want to have 3K speakers get stabbed by a spatula.

That said, I can upgrade with my dealer before the end of the year and apply the price I paid towards the new speakers. I will probably upgrade. But its not because the Monitors are good quality - they are - in fact I will audition the 9s and 11s v. the studio lin'tne and unless I hear a significant difference, I will stay with the monitors. But, I expect there to a difference (I did audition them before, but not side-by-side), and the build quality is significantly better with the Studio line.

My biggest issues are replacing the Sub - the PDR could do better, and upgrading my receiver to accommodate a C690 and Studio 100s (I listen to alot of music and the room is over 2500 cubic feet).

Re the sub - sonically I understand I don't need to stay with paradigm for a sub and also that if I did stay with paradigm, I might have to go all the way up to a servo to equal the base quality of a mid-line SVS - do people in this forum agree with that?

Finally, I am looking at an Onkyo 805 and Denon 2808, but I am leaning toward the 805 because of power and THX certification, especially if I end up with 100s. Would that work alright - I think I saw someone else write that the 805 should be able to drive the 100s just fine? My listening volume varies quite a bit, but late at night I'd like to make sure that I have enough power to hear everything at a fairly low volume.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated -
i would lean towards the 905 or get a separate amp and the sub tough call
but it has been said the hsu and svs give you more for your money.

I really liked the improvement of the Studio's over the Monitor line. Be careful that you are getting v.4 Studio's (it's on the box). I have the Studio 100's for the front, and am in the process of adding to them with the CC-690 center, Studio 100's for the sides, and Studio 40's for the rear. Why Studio 100's for the sides? Because I'm into multi-channel music, and dipoles are a no-no for that.

805 might be better (or an equivalent Integra), though with these newest Blu-ray/HD-DVD compatible receivers there have been some issues. The Onkyo's do run very hot, so ventilation is a must. The Denon's were having trouble with the audio bitstreaming of DTS Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD lossless via the Samsung 1400 Blu-ray player, but not so with the new Onkyo/Integra receivers and pre-amps.

Luckily, I'm using an amp/pre-amp combo for a little extra robust power for the Studio's. You can go up to 250 watts/channel with them for clean reserve power. Though, if you ever got to that wattage level your ears would bleed and you'd probably blow a tweeter!

I would not recommend dipoles for the rear surrounds. You want direct radiating speakers spread for stereo imaging, not THX's recommended layout with the backs close together. People need to start thinking in terms of real 7.1 audio. It's here now with PLIIx and Logic 7 processing, and true 7.1 mixes via Blu-ray.

The new SVS PB13-Ultra is a hella sub!

I'll agree with Oztech,
I'm using a HSU 3.3 and for the price, the quality is great, not to mention I can flex the walls out if I need to. (That probably applies to SVS also from what I read about their subs) but even according to "craigsub" you would need to triple the price of the HSU 3.3 before you were able to beat it in sound quality. And by his chart, its not a huge gap that it loses by.

Thanks for the info Dan, I'm trying to find someone locally to audition the Rockets for me. Again I don't think my Monitors are bad, but if I can step up the quality and especially the looks, I may do it. Either way I guess thats the "addictive" part of this hobby :D.

The Studio v.4:
Studio 20 – 2-driver 2-way bookshelf: 7˝ bass/mid, 1˝ G-PAL; $899/pr
Studio 60 – 3-driver 2.5-way floorstanding: 7˝ bass, 7˝ mid/bass, 1˝ G-PAL; $1,799/pr
CC-590 – 4-driver 3-way center: 2 x 7˝ bass, 4.5˝ mid, 1˝ G-PAL; $899/ea
CC-690 – 6-driver 3.5-way center: 2 x 7˝ bass, 2 x 7˝ mid/bass, 4.5˝ mid, 1˝ G-PAL; $1,199/ea
Servo-15v2 - $2200

All prices in $US


Thanks! Does anyone know when the Studio v4 series were first released?

Thanks! Does anyone know when the Studio v4 series were first released?

spring 2007

http://www.castercomm.com/archived_press.cfm?client=113

I'll agree with Oztech,

Thanks for the info Dan, I'm trying to find someone locally to audition the Rockets for me. Again I don't think my Monitors are bad, but if I can step up the quality and especially the looks, I may do it. Either way I guess thats the "addictive" part of this hobby :D.


they call it upgraditis :D

I, personally, think that the Monitor line can be bested by many brands in that price/performance category.

However, I did like the Paradigm Studio and Sigs much better overall than the Rocket speakers I heard recently before choosing to get some Studio 100's. The Rockets remind me of Thiel speakers: Metallic and bracing comes to mind... the Vifa tweeter is good and extended without breakup with great imaging, but the aluminum drivers made a negative impact to the balance, especially for vocals. Not comfortable over long term listening IMHO. Bass was a bit tighter and lower on the Rocket 850's than the Studio 100's, but even the 850's benefited from augmentation by a sealed music sub like the 10" Rocket.

There is no question in a case by case basis you could find comparable of even better sonics for any speaker on the market. The issue is performance vs price.

This alone makes direct comparisons extremely difficult as we all are aware it is virtually impossible to find a dealers(s) which have some or all of the models under consideration. Running from salon to salon isn't going to cut it. The sonic variables are too great, setup, electronics, cabling room acoustics etc.

Only 1st rate dealers will offer the courtesy of letting you take the speakers home to compare a/b. BUT, how good is your sonic memory?

Next issue, is your comments about Thiel speakers. GIGO! Like Bryston, They are revealing to a fault. If you don't have the best front end or the power/current to control them , they will be right in your face. They require breathing room, higher ceilings and absolutely the best cabling available. thie is not for HT period. I know I have them both Cs-3.6 AND Cs-6 in my main listening room driven by Bryston 7B-SST's.

That may prove to be too much to ask for most HT lovers. Whereas, audiophiles have no issue with that as they are rarely on a beer budget.

As for Paradigm, monitor vs studio... tough call. I have Atoms in the rear, Mini monitors and a cc290 along with a Snell basis 300 sub. Using Kimber 8TC for all and Audioquest Sub3 32v dbs for the sub. Being fed by a Yamaha Rx-v2700
. Everything is shelf mounted as the WAF won't allow anything else. This is more quality sound then I have a right to! Also I introduced a new Denon 4806CI into this equation... the sonics so far are a push.

As an authorized dealer for all of the gear I just mentioned, I will say you can do a lot worst than the Monitor series, but would be hard pressed to do better overall with any other brand. As there are too many gaps in there product lines, where Paradigm has found a way to make the tranisition between lines somewhat seamless.:p

On a scale of 100 , I would place the Monitor series at about 80, The studio series about 85 and the reference series 85-90.... so you can see that is not much separating them except price.

Interesting to hear from a dealer on this Ginovino. What's driving me right now is the receiver issue. I did not upgrade my receiver (a yammy 5835) when I got my monitors - the receiver has plenty of power for the monitor line, but I've been focused lately on upgrading the receiver - and part of what's driving that is multiroom/multisource capacity - which I don't have.

I know that the Onkyo 805 has plently of power and has multiroom capability (for the 2nd room I was thinking Titans to start). It also has a number of preouts if I want to add an amp later - which I might for 100s if I go that far.

As for the wife factor - she complained about the 290 and the 7s initially. BUt I come home everyday after work and my house is filled with sound. I am curious to see how loud she'll be playing with larger speakers and more power!

I cannot overstate the importance of using an amp that has high current output-- NOT just watts. It is highly unlikely that at one time you will have a constant wattage of XXwatts from all 5 channels simultaneously. However, among the benefits of high current amps are their ability to rebound from high level use almost instantaneously. Denon, Yamaha & Marantz receivers are especially good at this. That is why they tend to run hot even at idle!

Both the Yammy & the Denon upper models can operate in up to 3 zones in both video and audio.

As for the 2nd zone speakers...hmmmm, The Titans may be overkill and a waste of good $Green$. Both the Mini monitors and Titans have almost identical frequency response and though the Titan has a larger Cabinet, it's efficiency is the same as the Mini as is its maximum power handling. Save yourself some $ and go with the Mini's you'll be happier later. They work well on both a shelf or stands. I have a personal pair of the older Titans v3 with boxes for cheap if your so inclined. PM me...

So not as to upset the moderators, I am not trying to bypass the dealer postings. Nor will I share the name of the store I am affiliated with unless we become paid advetisers on this forum. Anything I may offer for sale is from my personal collection, and not from any retail stock!!!
Good luck

Any paradigm dealers on this forum who can swing me some sort of deal on a pair of studio 20 v.4's and the cc-590 please PM me. Shippnig is to California. Thanks!

Hello Paradigm owners. I am in the process of trying to decide on a new 5.1 (maybe 6.1/7.1) speaker system and I am thinking about the millenia 200's for the fronts, 20 for the center, Seismic 12 subwoofer and ADP speakers for the surrounds. I have read good reviews for this setup but I was wondering what some owners may feel about it? My other option I was considering is the Mirage Omnisat V2 FS speakers. Thank you for any input that would help me in my choice.

so im looking to get

FRONT - two paradigm studio 40
CENTER - one paradigm cc-690
REAR - two paradigm adp-590

which im thinking is a decent setup, but no dealers show in my area within 70 miles, so theres noone who can ship to me? i was trying to price them out today and realized i cant have them shipped....
also, if v4 of these speakers are out now, but they have other speakers of which v5 is out, im wondering if i should ask if v5 is coming by years end for the above models....
gg
florida

ALSO, ADDED LATER-

im looking to drive all 5 speakers with something. i was looking at the rotel rmb-1075 which can drive 5 channels at 120w, its half the price of the 200w rmb-1095 model, but since these speakers are rated at 140watts, is it best to get the 120w amp or the 200w amp?

and also, for some type of preamp, what would be a good selection if someone had 5-channels rca coming from a audio source (computer), and needed something to go in between the computer and the rotel as a preamp?
i see so many receievers/preamps but they all seem to be audio-video and i dont want any video, just 5 channels of audio. are there any higher end 5-channel preamps without video bells-n-whistles that would be a good match for the rotel and the paradigm speakers? or can i go direct from prelude soundcards 6 rca outs to the rotel (and one for sub)....
thanks for advice, ive spent the full day trying to find such a thing....

Wow, so many Paradigm experts here. Here is a center matching question.

Someone had mentioned the CC290 was much brighter than the CC390 on another thread. Anyone know if the new CC290 is matched with the older Monitor 9's (v.1 or v.2 - The ones with the 8 inch woofers, not the newer v.5 Mon 9's with the 6.5 woofers)?

Any thoughts?

If the CC290 and CC390 are both in the same line, one should not be brighter since they will use the same tweeter. This impression may be caused by a lack of bass from the CC290, but if crossed over properly, it should be fine. The monitor 9 used 8" woofers until version 4. Paradigm people have said that their speakers will match previous versions of the same series, but since the drivers changed, how closely they match is an open question. They may be a great timbre match or they may be close enough for most people.

I recently purchased the SA-35's for my LCR behind an SMX AT screen and wondering which ADP's for sides and rears I should get. I have a 20' Long by 17'9" wide room and not sure if the 590's would be overkill. I am also using an SVS PB Ultra 13 as my sub.

Thanks for any info,
Bob

could somebody here who owns a set of ADP-390's please tell me how they can be mounted, and with stands if there is special ones made for them. i'm asking because i'm renting my house and won't be able to wall mount.

Hey all, jsut wondering what Sub you are pairing with your studio 100's (V2) for HT adn how they perform/match the Paradigms?

I have 390cc and 390 rears...

To Bowmah, I'm unsure why but yes the 290 was so bright it hurt my ears, the 390 was much less bright. I don't know if they use the same drivers but when I auditioned the 290 it lasted for about 30 seconds before I was begging for them to turn it off.

Nucl3arboNg - the 390's have pads to put down on regular stands to support them. I did that for a bit before I mounted them on the wall and they were plenty stable with or without the pads assuming your stands have a large enough top to hold the main part of the speaker.

The monitor 9 used 8" woofers until version 4.

Even the V4 Monitor 9s had 8" woofers.

I have 390cc and 390 rears...

To Bowmah, I'm unsure why but yes the 290 was so bright it hurt my ears, the 390 was much less bright. I don't know if they use the same drivers but when I auditioned the 290 it lasted for about 30 seconds before I was begging for them to turn it off.

This is very odd. The tweeter/midrange X-over point on the 390 is 2400hz while the 290's is at 2500hz. Midrange to woofer is 250hz on both.

There is only a 5hz gap in the low frequency response between the two, 75hz vs 80hz.

They should sound practically identical except for a little more midbass on the 390. The upper end shouldn't differ.

I went with the 290 due to no significant difference other than price.

I did make a trip back to my dealer with some money burning a hole in pocket intent on going home with a 390 for the hell of it. I ordered some Studio 100s instead. :D

Now I need to start building the Studio HT.

Based on the specs, that is odd how the 290 sounds brighter than the 390. Unless bayn demo'ed one that was not properly setup?

bayn, glad you like your 390. I hope the 290 will suit the rest of us fine. Thanks for the reply!

Wow, so many Paradigm experts here. Here is a center matching question.

Someone had mentioned the CC290 was much brighter than the CC390 on another thread. Anyone know if the new CC290 is matched with the older Monitor 9's (v.1 or v.2 - The ones with the 8 inch woofers, not the newer v.5 Mon 9's with the 6.5 woofers)?

Any thoughts?

If I were a betting man, I would make 2 bets, first, one or the other speaker was wired out of phase. Second, they were hooked up to different HT receivers and possibly different cabling. IN my show room, there is absolutely no sonic difference between the two speakers. Paradigms logic was they didn't want to leave a gap between the series numbers ergo: cc190, 290,390, and so on, lest you think that there was a quantum change in sonics based on model numbers. You'd be surprised what goes through customers minds.

The CC390 is not the sweet spot in the series.

Frankly for that price I would buy another floor stander and it would sound even better!

Hope that helps!;)

If I were a betting man, I would make 2 bets, first, one or the other speaker was wired out of phase. Second, they were hooked up to different HT receivers and possibly different cabling. IN my show room, there is absolutely no sonic difference between the two speakers. Paradigms logic was they didn't want to leave a gap between the series numbers ergo: cc190, 290,390, and so on, lest you think that there was a quantum change in sonics based on model numbers. You'd be surprised what goes through customers minds.

The CC390 is not the sweet spot in the series.

Frankly for that price I would buy another floor stander and it would sound even better!

Hope that helps!;)

Thanks for your thoughts. That make sense. I am hoping the 290 will match with older versions of the Mon 9's.

By the way, glad to see your 290 was not wired incorrectly internally :)

Thanks for your thoughts. That make sense. I am hoping the 290 will match with older versions of the Mon 9's.

By the way, glad to see your 290 was not wired incorrectly internally :)

Aha! you remember that posting. Actually I did that for some effect to weed out the any other dealers and true followers of the Paradigm products. The Q.C. that comes out of that factory is amazing given the volume of product they produce. Oppssss I forgot, its made in Canada!!! that splains it;)

It came down to the EQ in the Yamaha mic & Rx-V2700 misreading the signal. It did the same thing both in the showroom and at home. Yet when I ran the EQ through the Denon, not a peep of error! SO we concluded the Yammie is bottom sensitive (at the least the Mic is at equal output levels).

you will enjoy the CC290. it does so much so well for the price, but it is a big unit! and solid as a rock, aside of it being magnetically shielded! Just try to find out how other center channel products are!:D

Aha! you remember that posting.


:)


you will enjoy the CC290. it does so much so well for the price, but it is a big unit! and solid as a rock, aside of it being magnetically shielded!

I am excited to purchase it. The price isn't so attractive as this is a store credit purchase so it will be the listed retail price and Paradigm never discounts their list price unless a model is being discontinued.

It is heavy but not as big as the 390. Besides the price, the size is one reason for going with the 290. Hey, the 370 & 350's use to do a heck of a job so I am sure the 290 will do the same without needing to get to the size of the 390! :) Let's hope the timbre matches somewhat to older Mon 9's!

bayn - thx for the input but would you have a picture of what kind of stand your talking about?

Can anyone recommend a good crossover point for a subwoofer that will be used with Studio 40s v3 primarily for music?

I'm trying to decide between the Rythmik DS12 and the DS15 kit to pair up with my Studio 40s v3. I read that Rythmik recommends the DS12 when using a crossover of 80Hz, or using the DS15 at 60Hz.

Can anyone recommend a good crossover point for a subwoofer that will be used with Studio 40s v3 primarily for music?

I'm trying to decide between the Rythmik DS12 and the DS15 kit to pair up with my Studio 40s v3. I read that Rythmik recommends the DS12 when using a crossover of 80Hz, or using the DS15 at 60Hz.

Just try both and see which setting you prefer........:)

Can anyone recommend a good crossover point for a subwoofer that will be used with Studio 40s v3 primarily for music?

I'm trying to decide between the Rythmik DS12 and the DS15 kit to pair up with my Studio 40s v3. I read that Rythmik recommends the DS12 when using a crossover of 80Hz, or using the DS15 at 60Hz.

Agree with JOHNNYV.3, but most likely 80 hz. would be best. Depends on where the sub is located and how it will blend with the 40s. Brian of Rythmik has stated the 12" model does better with higher x-over points, I would go with that one. You could always build two. :) Are you using the built-in x-over on the Rythmiks, or an external crossover?

I find with my Studio 60s that the lower I set the x-over point, the hotter my L/R amp runs. So thats another issue to consider.

Keep us posted on the Rythmiks, they are on my short list of future sub upgrades. I would love to see a comparison between their 15", compared the Paradigm Sevo.

I recently purchased the SA-35's for my LCR behind an SMX AT screen and wondering which ADP's for sides and rears I should get. I have a 20' Long by 17'9" wide room and not sure if the 590's would be overkill. I am also using an SVS PB Ultra 13 as my sub.

Thanks for any info,
Bob

Anyone?

Agree with JOHNNYV.3, but most likely 80 hz. would be best. Depends on where the sub is located and how it will blend with the 40s. Brian of Rythmik has stated the 12" model does better with higher x-over points, I would go with that one. You could always build two. :) Are you using the built-in x-over on the Rythmiks, or an external crossover?

I find with my Studio 60s that the lower I set the x-over point, the hotter my L/R amp runs. So thats another issue to consider.

Keep us posted on the Rythmiks, they are on my short list of future sub upgrades. I would love to see a comparison between their 15", compared the Paradigm Sevo.

I will probably be using an Onkyo 805 (Haven't decided 100% for sure which receiver I'll be getting) to drive the fronts, and will be using its crossover settings to control the cutoff points. I kinda figured that 80Hz would be the ideal point, but wanted to ask some of you who have first hand experience with the Studios.

I'll probably build a DS12 kit to be safe. If I need the additional dbs, I can always add a second one, if the wife will allow it.

I have Studio 40s v4 and use 80Hz for a crossover to the sub.

After hearing more than a few people say what they have about the 290 vs. 390 I have to say that maybe the setup at my local store was not optimal. If asked again I'll have to put that disclaimer in my comments about what I've read.

Nucl3ar - I don't have a picture but I measured the tops at 6.5x5.5" and they were fine on these stands. I would recommend something with a larger top but I would carefully place them on this stand when watching movies (otherwise I would place them on the carpet so they could never be knocked off) and they were just fine. Never had any moments even thinking they would fall off.

I'm doing a "shootout" with another full set of speakers to see which set I will keep (Thats the bad part about this hobby :D) but the Monitor lines are good quality and they do sound great at movies, matched with my HSU 3.3 sub Transformers HD on these speakers had more than one person ducking for cover. You will be happy with your set for sure.

I have not updated my system in several years.

But my system includes:

Monitor 9 v2 Mains
cc350 Center
Mini Monitor v2 rear

No subwoofer

Pioneer reciever.
Sony DVDRW-VCR combo x 2
Nintendo Wii

I love my paradigms. Over the years I have had different configurations with them. Bi-amped with a Conrad Johnson amp and an Acurus amp, Denon recievers. I also have a Rotel integrated stereo amp that I used on the mini monitors when I had them hooked up to my PC.

I have not updated my system in several years.

But my system includes:

Monitor 9 v2 Mains
cc350 Center
Mini Monitor v2 rear

No subwoofer

Pioneer reciever.
Sony DVDRW-VCR combo x 2
Nintendo Wii

I love my paradigms. Over the years I have had different configurations with them. Bi-amped with a Conrad Johnson amp and an Acurus amp, Denon recievers. I also have a Rotel integrated stereo amp that I used on the mini monitors when I had them hooked up to my PC.

If you watch any movies at all, youv'e gotta add a sub.

I have not updated my system in several years.

But my system includes:

Monitor 9 v2 Mains
cc350 Center
Mini Monitor v2 rear

No subwoofer

Pioneer reciever.
Sony DVDRW-VCR combo x 2
Nintendo Wii

I love my paradigms. Over the years I have had different configurations with them. Bi-amped with a Conrad Johnson amp and an Acurus amp, Denon recievers. I also have a Rotel integrated stereo amp that I used on the mini monitors when I had them hooked up to my PC.
Was there a big diffrence from amp to amp ?

If you watch any movies at all, youv'e gotta add a sub.

Yes I know. Once I get past my wedding then I plan to add that, but for now my spare change is going to that, hehe.

I was looking at upgrading my a\v setup and was thinking of the following speakers

Studio 60's - front
Studio cc-590 - center
Studio 590's - surrounds
Studio 20's - rear's 7.1 THX setup
SVS ultra13 or 12/2 sub

This was going to be powered by an onkyo 905, do you think that will be enough power?
It seems like the studio's were best bang for buck, and I also like they way they look the best. The room is only a little under 4000 cubic ft. am I going overboard?

I was looking at upgrading my a\v setup and was thinking of the following speakers

Studio 60's - front
Studio cc-590 - center
Studio 590's - surrounds
Studio 20's - rear's 7.1 THX setup
SVS ultra13 or 12/2 sub

This was going to be powered by an onkyo 905, do you think that will be enough power?
It seems like the studio's were best bang for buck, and I also like they way they look the best. The room is only a little under 4000 cubic ft. am I going overboard?
That's the set up I use except I have a servo15 all powered by an old onkyo 939 :eek: and it sounds fantastic.

I have been browsing for a home theater sound system am trying to find out more about these speakers. I went over to a sound system store and saw these speakers today and were recommended by the salesman. I had never heard of Paradigm before today but by the sound of the speakers and by most of the positive reviews in this thread it sounds like they are great speakers.

I just have a few questions as to which speakers to get that will sound better in my TV room. The size of my room is 15 X 20. The salesman recommended the Monitor 7 with the ADP190 and the CC190. For the bass he said to go with the PDR12. Is this good enough for a room this size? Are these speakers good for TV and DVD viewing? Any help with this matter will be appreciated.

I have been browsing for a home theater sound system am trying to find out more about these speakers. I went over to a sound system store and saw these speakers today and were recommended by the salesman. I had never heard of Paradigm before today but by the sound of the speakers and by most of the positive reviews in this thread it sounds like they are great speakers.

I just have a few questions as to which speakers to get that will sound better in my TV room. The size of my room is 15 X 20. The salesman recommended the Monitor 7 with the ADP190 and the CC190. For the bass he said to go with the PDR12. Is this good enough for a room this size? Are these speakers good for TV and DVD viewing? Any help with this matter will be appreciated.
a better sub can be had for the same money and as for what
speakers you listened too, the studio's would have been worth it while you where there.

The size of my room is 15 X 20. The salesman recommended the Monitor 7 with the ADP190 and the CC190. For the bass he said to go with the PDR12. Is this good enough for a room this size? Are these speakers good for TV and DVD viewing? Any help with this matter will be appreciated.

That is one way to set things up. A different setup would be to go with the Mini Monitors (or Titans) for fronts, Atoms in the rear, cc190 (or cc290 if budget allows) and a PS-1000 or PW2100. Less money on your front and rear speakers but more money on the sub.

Again, it's a matter of taste and budget so you should go check this out. I personally prefer this setup as the sub packs more punch and should help drive better bass passed along from the smaller speakers.

Go check it out and enjoy the journey. The search is half the fun!

hey guys...FUTURE paradigm owner here...i went looking at the studio series and the monitor series...i have narrowed it down to the studio 60's with the CC590 for the center and the monitor 11 with the CC290 or 390 for the center...i will not be upgrading my surrounds as of yet and will use what ive got for now which are the polk FXi5's...im good on the sub as well, ive got a HSU VTF3 HO with turbo.

i really dont need the extension of the floorstanders but like the look of a floorstander over a bookshelf...no stands is a good thing in my book! anywho, heres my little problem...the place near me where i listened to these speakers at has the ones im considering in different rooms...the one the studios are in is completely sealed and treated much like my room is...they sound great! the room where the monitors are is in the main show room which is HUGE...about 75 feet by 55 feet or so...im really just wanting to get an overall opinion on what you owners think the main differences are in these two lines of speakers...to me the studios are very smooth and most of all they didnt fatigue me after listening to them...with the monitors since they are in such a different room its almost impossible to tell any sort of differences for obvious reasons!

i know its been asked a billion times and i feel stupid asking this question but i, well.....just have to!!!

The monitors were too bright for my tastes. The Studios were much more balanced, and I too liked them (bought a pair of Studio 100 v.4), and would have purchased the Signature S8 v.2 if I had that kind of money.

None of the Paradigm's are bass monsters. I noted it and so have others. The Sigs have the tightest and lowest bass of the Paradigm lineup due to the more solid box design and the heavier drivers. Any of them would need subwoofer augmentation.

I play my Studio 100's in a very large room with vaulted ceilings and they do fine. I have about 200 watts/channel feeding them from my ATI amplifier. Obviously, I won't reach that power level if I want to have any kind of hearing left afterwards!

In fact, when I got my Studio's home they sounded BETTER than at the dealer's showroom. Just played Hot Fuzz a few nights ago and they belted out the sound cleanly and without fatigue. With high resolution music like from SA-CD's and Blu-ray concerts with 24 bit lossless audio they are fantastic and very balanced IMHO. Excellent reproduction of acoustic instruments.

Dan

I was looking at upgrading my a\v setup and was thinking of the following speakers

Studio 60's - front
Studio cc-590 - center
Studio 590's - surrounds
Studio 20's - rear's 7.1 THX setup
SVS ultra13 or 12/2 sub

This was going to be powered by an onkyo 905, do you think that will be enough power?
It seems like the studio's were best bang for buck, and I also like they way they look the best. The room is only a little under 4000 cubic ft. am I going overboard?

"Overkill" is an understatement!:eek:

There is so little information in the rear channels and on the majority of product out there, IMHO investing in more speakers is a poor choice of investment. I would upgrade my Electronics , maybe even separate amps for each channel.

Then rewire my speaker system with Kimber 8TC, Audioquest Sub-3 subwoofer cable. Fire that up and kick yourself in the Arse for not doing it sooner!

SVS is a very good product. For price vs performance the HSU subwoofer products are dramatically better that anything in the Paradigm line.

The CC290, Atoms and Mini are the sweet spot in the Paradigm lower price area, Studio 100's v5 as well. In fact the CC290 and its brethren are among the only center channel cabinets magnetically shielded.

I suggest looking at the Denon and Yamaha for electronics. The top 2 models in each line of course.

hey guys...FUTURE paradigm owner here...i went looking at the studio series and the monitor series...i have narrowed it down to the studio 60's with the CC590 for the center and the monitor 11 with the CC290 or 390 for the center...i will not be upgrading my surrounds as of yet and will use what ive got for now which are the polk FXi5's...im good on the sub as well, ive got a HSU VTF3 HO with turbo.

i really dont need the extension of the floorstanders but like the look of a floorstander over a bookshelf...no stands is a good thing in my book! anywho, heres my little problem...the place near me where i listened to these speakers at has the ones im considering in different rooms...the one the studios are in is completely sealed and treated much like my room is...they sound great! the room where the monitors are is in the main show room which is HUGE...about 75 feet by 55 feet or so...im really just wanting to get an overall opinion on what you owners think the main differences are in these two lines of speakers...to me the studios are very smooth and most of all they didnt fatigue me after listening to them...with the monitors since they are in such a different room its almost impossible to tell any sort of differences for obvious reasons!

i know its been asked a billion times and i feel stupid asking this question but i, well.....just have to!!!

Shoot that dealer!

Any dealer who cares, will set up a dedicated listening time for you and you alone and move the speakers and/or electonics you want to hear into a room the size of your home theater. Thus you will be doing a "true" A/B, cables, amps, environment. Also take into consideration the brand of cabling being used, treat the listening as a 2 channel event and 2 channel only. this will show you the amount of depth, width and soundstage, speed, articulation, bottom end and how "seamless' the interaction is between the frequencies.

The same testing holds true for the center and rear channels.

Hooking up all the channels at once, MASKS the shortcomings of any speaker, including some very popular and/or mega $ brands. I know this full well and intimately.

Do not listen to anything , INCLUDING Pavarotti singing live! In that 75ft room!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Be straight up and firm with the dealer about your desire. If they hedge, WALK! Tell then any purchase is contingent on this listening arrangement.
Moreover, a good dealer will offer to let you take the speakers home for a day or so for listening in your environment (of course they will ask for your credit card to insure you don't abscond).

Make sure they power the speakers up with the highest quality HTR possible.
Denon, Yamaha, Marantz... forget the rest and I do mean forget the rest.

Separates if at all possible, as this will show you the "POTENTIAL" available to you in the future and give you something to strive for!:rolleyes:

You may have read some of my other posts about the Paradigm line. I am intimately and extremely well versed with the product line and which models "jell" better with each other. Most buyers, get too much speaker for their space and listening room. Better yet, have NO idea what loudness (spl) equates to watt output from the amps. Most listening on average, requires less than 2 watts and produces about 95db of output. THAT IS LOUD.

The subwoofer is another issue entirely and the math here approaches physics and mechanics.

Now that I showed off my pedantic verbose rhetoric, I hope you will gleem some info from my rantings:cool:

Long time lurker, but apparently I never registered so first time posting. I'm slowly working on a home theater in the basement, but my constant indecisiveness on things to buy has been frustrating. So I've decided to nail down the speaker decision to help get a handle on my budget needs and have something more concrete to look forward to. The more I can look forward to, the more work I seem to get done on the room.


It's a roughly 13x15 room, but with a 4 foot deep closet room behind the screen wall (doorway-sized opening on each side of the screen). That room is intended to store movies, books, and all other types of media I can fit in it.


My initial desired list of speakers for the room is:

Front: Mini or Titan Monitors
Center: CC-390
Surrounds: ADP-190 x 4
Sub: Hsu VTF3 HO Turbo or the MK3 Turbo



Here is what I have now upstairs in the living room:

Front: Mini Monitors (unsure of which version but it was from around 5 or years ago and they match the speakers below)

Center: CC 350
Surround: ADP-350 surrounds x 2
Sub: PDR-10

I've already decided on 4 dipoles for the surrounds, because I really like how it sounds. I've bounced back and I'll probably do some more testing before any final purchases but so far full dipole around the back pulls me in more when I'm watching movies. At least in small rooms.

Questions:

1. I only list the Titan because it has a front firing port and the front speakers will be backed against the wall. Is this even a concern or could I just have the Minis against the wall ( 2" gap or less).

2. Could I effectively use my ADP-350s along with a set of ADP-190s or would the sound be different?

3. My ADP-350s are mounted to the wall with those cool little metal clips (one on the wall, one on the speaker). Do the new ones mount the same way? I thought I'd read concerns on lack of mounting brackets with the new models somewhere, but I can't find it now.

4. Going with ADP-390s is tempting, but would it be worth the extra ~$600 total?

Ideally, I would do a Studio setup but I just can't afford it. Maybe some years down the road. Perhaps the best option would be to try to find another set of ADP-350s somewhere, use my current minis/cc-350, buy the Hsu sub, and save up for a full Studio set?


Thanks for any advice! I think I'll be happy regardless of my choices so it's more of a best use of money thing.

Kevin


(On a side note, I have an old pair of Paradigm Export Monitors but have been unable to find much of any information on them aside from they are the model with an 8" woofer and 1" tweeter. Any ideas? Maybe I could just email Paradigm for specs info.)

Then rewire my speaker system with Kimber 8TC, Audioquest Sub-3 subwoofer cable.


cough cough, hack hack... Kimber 8TC, Audioquest Sub-3.... cough, cough...

Can someone please give me some snake oil for this cough... hack....


8TC is pretty much braided cat5 cable, which is known to be a good speaker cable, kimber will charge you what... 200x the cost though, more perhaps?

Audioquest sub-3.... it's a nice RCA cable! Go to bluejeans cable and spend 1/10 that amount for the EXACT SAME THING.

I am about to buy new front and center speakers, and am strongly considering the S8/C5 combination.

I currently have 7 years old Def Tech 3000 series fronts and center speakers, with Monitor Silver series on-walls for my sides and rears.

My receiver is a Denon 4308ci, although I'm probably going to trade up to the 5308 when it is available.

My sub is a Velodyne DD-18.

HT is my primary focus and music secondary, although obviously music still very important

My questions:

What are owner's thoughts on the S8 and C5 combo?

Are the V.2 of the S8s/C5s 'bright'? (I really am prone to 'ear fatigue' if the speakers are very harsh and/or bright sounding, and much prefer a speaker that is somewhat on the 'warm' side. I have read wonderful reviews of the S8 albeit the original version I believe, but have also read individual comments that the S8 is excessively 'bright').

Would the S8/C5 combo work well with my existing Monitor surrounds, or would it be best to also trade for the matching Paradigm surrounds? (I understand that in a perfect world I should buy the same brand/type of speakers all around, but am wondering if I'll notice much improvement over the Monitors since these are surrounds only).

Will the Velo DD-18 work well with the S8/C5 combo? (The DD-18 is brand new, so I'll be keeping it for sure, but needed to ask).

If I order the S8/C5 combo in gloss black, is there a reasonable expectation of receiving a decent discount from MSRP? (I know this is dealer dependent, but would like to know a range of %'s that people have been able to negotiate off of MSRP).

Lastly I understand that how the S8/C5 combo sounds to ME is the most important thing, but it is doubtful that my nearest dealer will have them in stock, (they likely will have either the S4 or S6); hence I may have to order 'sound un-heard'.

Thanks for any help,
Bish

Shoot that dealer!

Any dealer who cares, will set up a dedicated listening time for you and you alone and move the speakers and/or electonics you want to hear into a room the size of your home theater. Thus you will be doing a "true" A/B, cables, amps, environment. Also take into consideration the brand of cabling being used, treat the listening as a 2 channel event and 2 channel only. this will show you the amount of depth, width and soundstage, speed, articulation, bottom end and how "seamless' the interaction is between the frequencies.

Do not listen to anything , INCLUDING Pavarotti singing live! In that 75ft room!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek: .

Now that I showed off my pedantic verbose rhetoric, I hope you will gleem some info from my rantings:cool:


i am going to ask them to do that for me...i didnt mention it in my post because i hate posting huge amounts of text for some reason...anywho.......

i will be calling to ask them to do that for me and if they dont i will just drive up to orange county to some of the other dealers and see what they have to say...but needless to say i am DEFINATELY leaning toward the Studio series...i cant afford the signature series but i can swing the studio series and i REALLY liked their over all natural tone...they didnt exhibit anything i didnt like to be truthful...but for the heck of it i think ill see if the dealer is willing to earn his money and set up the monitors in there as well...hehe...im so evil:D

Kimber 8TC, Audioquest Sub-3 subwoofer cable.

I know you are a dealer and have your biggest mark-up on ridiculously overpriced cable. Thats fine, you are in business to make money. Push it in your showroom all you want, but please, not here. I think and hope the folks on this forum are more educated than the average Joe and will not fall for this "its really expensive so it must be better" mentality.

Hi Bigjohns1997 and paradigmers,

I'm just replacing my old system and looking at a similar setup, but looking at 100s, the cc390, 20s for surround. And only going 5.1 (going slow on the full 7.1, decided to think about getting the bigger "front three" than buying another pair of surrounds.)

My room is only about 2500 ft^3 tho, so I may drop to the 60s if I can swing the SVS PB13. (Opinions out there? Is there any reason to go all the way to the 100s if you are getting a "high end" sub? My present sub is a Paradigm PS-1000 v1.)

Also going for the Onkyo TX-NR905 because of the hype surrounding the high-current toroidal transformer in that unit. (I may be waiting for a while, 905s are trickling.) I wish I could see a review on that unit's amp section.

Anyhow, my Paradigm dealer is willing to let me actually take the 905 in and spend some time with the studio 60s and 100s. If you already have your 905, see if your dealer will let you do the same? I would LOVE to hear your feedback.

portculis,
I would not mix the studio and monitor series for your front stage. If you are looking at the cc390 due to budget I would go with the 60's and a cc590. Those speakers are plenty for a 2500 sqft room.

Thanks 051473 -- woops, I am really looking at the cc-690! That 390 was a typo. Too many model numbers in the head! :o

For certain, not a good idea to mix series.

My current Paradigm build are Titan Monitors v5 a CC190 and I will be getting the ADP190 later. I run a ML Dynamo and an Onkyo 505.I dont have the high dollar system but for my room its pretty damn good for both music and movies. I have only had this setup for a few weeks and tho I do wonder if I might of been better off with the Atoms my system by no means sounds bad IMHO.

My current Paradigm build are Titan Monitors v5 a CC190 and I will be getting the ADP190 later. I run a ML Dynamo and an Onkyo 505.I dont have the high dollar system but for my room its pretty damn good for both music and movies. I have only had this setup for a few weeks and tho I do wonder if I might of been better off with the Atoms my system by no means sounds bad IMHO.
I am not familiar with your sub but the other speakers sound like they should be a pretty good setup. Going with the ADP is a preference versus going with monopolic Atoms. :) Don't worry, just enjoy!

I am not familiar with your sub but the other speakers sound like they should be a pretty good setup. Going with the ADP is a preference versus going with monopolic Atoms. :) Don't worry, just enjoy!

The sub is the lowest version in the ML line, 550 bucks out the door it has more then enough power and bass for HT and music its really strong. It was a toss up for the Dynamo and the REL T series, I build for SQ not SPL I did the same thing with my car back in the days yet it still did 134.4 DB. I will do the ADP since my couch is on a back wall so thats where they come in. I actually meant the Atoms over the Titans, reviews I have read about the Atoms were very strong, havent seen anything really about the Titans.

portculis,
I would not mix the studio and monitor series for your front stage. If you are looking at the cc390 due to budget I would go with the 60's and a cc590. Those speakers are plenty for a 2500 sqft room.

Its not anywhere as bad as you might expect. I upgraded from Monitor 9s v5 to Studio 100s v4, but kept my CC370 v5 for now. It sounds fine. The 370 is an excellent center and as most of us know the CC is THE most important speaker in a HT.

The only reason I went with the 100s is for their superiority with 2-channel music over the Monitors.

Honestly, if I only used my system for HT I would never have even considered any Studio series. They are awesome speakers but maybe overkill for theater. To put it another way, the Monitors are more than adequate for most peoples HT needs.

I took nearly the same path. Monitor 7 to Studio 100. But I upgraded my center also, CC370 to CC590. I also went to the 100s for 2 channel music and could not be happier.

I never gave the Studio 100s/CC370 combo a chance, maybe I should have. When it comes down to it, it's your HT. If it sounds good to you, that's all that matters.

Hey guy's future Paradigm owner after I buy my new tv set in a couple weeks. Just wanted some input as to what kind of sound I should expect with this setup. I ask because I live in a small north western Canadian town where I would have to order the speakers in without hearing first...

Monitor 11's
CC-390
ADP-390
SVS PB-13 Ultra
Prolly gonna run it with a Denon AVR-3808

The place i'm renting right now isn't that big, but i'm looking to future proof myself for the coming year or so because i'll be looking to buy a house. The system will be used for mostly DVD's/TV/Gaming/Music in that order with HT and gaming prolly the most seeing as how I even listen to music off the tv most the time.

Any input on userend sound will be appreciated, and looking forward to owning these fine speakers in the near future :D.

Well folks... I finally pulled the trigger on the last piece of the HT and picked up a cc-590 today and sat it on the new stand I won on eBay last week. What a wonderful sound! The 590 matches well with the Studio 100 v.3's.

Here's a pic of the set up and the almost completed room.

Now to finish the rest of the room with baseboards and to hide the wires...

Monitor 11's
CC-390
ADP-390
SVS PB-13 Ultra
Prolly gonna run it with a Denon AVR-3808

Any input on userend sound will be appreciated, and looking forward to owning these fine speakers in the near future :D.

I think the system you listed would do just fine for most of the things you listed. BUT, buying a system without demoing it is a little dangerous. First of all, demos and researching is half the fun. Secondly, even though 9 out of 10 people like the system does not mean you will. Sound and enjoyment is a very personal thing. Just a thought.

But having said that, I am very familiar with the 11's, cc390, adp390 and Denon 3808. I think this is a very good setup. Just to give you something to think about, you could save some money go with the 9's or even 7's and use the extra money to upgrade the sub. Sub is like RAM and money, you can never have enough :) But personally, I think if oyu listen to music in 2 channel stereo, the 11's will sound a little fuller. At least to me they do.

Good luck in your search!

Hey guy's future Paradigm owner after I buy my new tv set in a couple weeks. Just wanted some input as to what kind of sound I should expect with this setup. I ask because I live in a small north western Canadian town where I would have to order the speakers in without hearing first...

Monitor 11's
CC-390
ADP-390
SVS PB-13 Ultra
Prolly gonna run it with a Denon AVR-3808

The place i'm renting right now isn't that big, but i'm looking to future proof myself for the coming year or so because i'll be looking to buy a house. The system will be used for mostly DVD's/TV/Gaming/Music in that order with HT and gaming prolly the most seeing as how I even listen to music off the tv most the time.

Any input on userend sound will be appreciated, and looking forward to owning these fine speakers in the near future :D.

the set up sounds like it will work great i wish i had that sub did you get a
chance to listen to their studio's.

That's the set up I use except I have a servo15 all powered by an old onkyo 939 :eek: and it sounds fantastic.

Thats great news !!

I just wanted to find someone who had the combo, becuase you hear stories of certain brand AVRs matching up better with other brand Speakers.

Hi Bigjohns1997 and paradigmers,

I'm just replacing my old system and looking at a similar setup, but looking at 100s, the cc390, 20s for surround. And only going 5.1 (going slow on the full 7.1, decided to think about getting the bigger "front three" than buying another pair of surrounds.)

My room is only about 2500 ft^3 tho, so I may drop to the 60s if I can swing the SVS PB13. (Opinions out there? Is there any reason to go all the way to the 100s if you are getting a "high end" sub? My present sub is a Paradigm PS-1000 v1.)

Also going for the Onkyo TX-NR905 because of the hype surrounding the high-current toroidal transformer in that unit. (I may be waiting for a while, 905s are trickling.) I wish I could see a review on that unit's amp section.

Anyhow, my Paradigm dealer is willing to let me actually take the 905 in and spend some time with the studio 60s and 100s. If you already have your 905, see if your dealer will let you do the same? I would LOVE to hear your feedback.

You want to oversize your fronts if you listen to stereo music in actual stereo mode. I am looking at the 60's because they are floorstanding and look like they can push some air. I am basing all of the speaker selections on the idea that the onkyo can use the Audyssey detection and I will end up feeling the music from all sides. :D

I have heard good things through the owners thread about thx listening modes with music.

I think the system you listed would do just fine for most of the things you listed. BUT, buying a system without demoing it is a little dangerous. First of all, demos and researching is half the fun. Secondly, even though 9 out of 10 people like the system does not mean you will. Sound and enjoyment is a very personal thing. Just a thought.

But having said that, I am very familiar with the 11's, cc390, adp390 and Denon 3808. I think this is a very good setup. Just to give you something to think about, you could save some money go with the 9's or even 7's and use the extra money to upgrade the sub. Sub is like RAM and money, you can never have enough :) But personally, I think if oyu listen to music in 2 channel stereo, the 11's will sound a little fuller. At least to me they do.

Good luck in your search!

ya but like I said unfortunatly I have no way possible to listen to these speakers unless I drive 500 miles to the nearest bigger dealer, and even then it's not guaranteed. Only thing I can listen to locally is some lower end Energy's, with maybe 2 sets of there upper end but the price is getting close to what i'd pay for studio's. The price difference on the 11's and 9's isn't really that much up here so I won't be gaining that much in terms of upgrading the sub, and from what i've been reading the Ultra is kinda the best bang for the buck right now.

Oztech- just like I said up top I won't be able to hear any of the paradigm line since even the place i'd be ordering them from is 100miles away from me. Yes I really like the studio's on paper, but out of my price range they are. Bad enough i've been saving for 2 months just to afford the Panny plasma i'm buying to start this all off.

This is a very lengthy thread, so I apologize ahead of time for repeating a question that has been asked and answered already. Nonetheless, I listened to a pair of Studio 100 v3's and Studio 40 v4's this past weekend; they sounded quite different. Granted these are two totally different speakers, but does any one else feel that they took a step backwards with the V4's??

I admit I only listened to the 40's for 30-60 seconds, but the different between them and the 100 v3's was not subtle. I know that Paradigm changed the midrange driver, but did they change anything else?

Oh, and I very much liked the 100's except that sometimes I had to strain to hear subtle nuances with some songs due to the overpowering bass. I did like them very much overall, though (they were the V3's).

I see a lot of cross talk between the Kuro thread and the Paradigm thread! Nuance, those are so different that I wouldn't chalk up ANY perceived differences to the v3 vs. v4 difference. You cannot compare a bookshelf speaker to a floor standing speaker unless you add a good musical sub to the bookshelf and spend time integrating them. You have major trade offs going to a bookshelf and the differences are amazing. I bought my first Paradigm Studio 60v1 from a guy with a set of Signature S2's. He demoed his S2's vs. the 60v1 and the 60v1 had a way better sound due to the better overall frequency response.

He was upgrading to a set of Wilson Audio speakers. When he A/B comapred the Sigs to the 60v1 I could see in his face his surprise at how good the 60v1 sounded compared to the Sigs. I thought it was kind of funny, but I got an amazing deal (including a virtually new B&W HTM1 for $400).

I listened to a pair of Studio 100 v3's and Studio 40 v4's this past weekend; they sounded quite different. Granted these are two totally different speakers, but does any one else feel that they took a step backwards with the V4's??

I admit I only listened to the 40's for 30-60 seconds, but the different between them and the 100 v3's was not subtle. I know that Paradigm changed the midrange driver, but did they change anything else?

Oh, and I very much liked the 100's except that sometimes I had to strain to hear subtle nuances with some songs due to the overpowering bass. I did like them very much overall, though (they were the V3's).

Question about Onkyo vs Yamaha receivers.

My current setup:
Fronts, Monitor 7 v.3
Center, CC 370
Surrounds, ADP 370
Sub, PW2100
Room size, 14,12, 9ft ceiling

I got by with a Panny XR57 till some HDMI receivers came about with multiple HDMI inputs for reasonable prices. So I picked up a Onkyo 705. After some time and great help from the people in the 705, I seem have it down but the audio seems a bit harsh. I have to crank the receiver really high to get some loudness going. At this point, the sound gets harsh and i get tired quickly (listeners fatigue?).

Would the Yamaha 1800 be a better fit? Video scaling isn't an issue. I like to keep my sources as is. I'm looking for a warmer sound. Even the XR57, which is a cheap receiver produced a much warmer sounds than the Onkyo 705. Maybe the 805 would be a better fit? Any advice would be great :)

The Denon 3808 would be the other option.

I am about to buy new front and center speakers, and am strongly considering the S8/C5 combination.

I currently have 7 years old Def Tech 3000 series fronts and center speakers, with Monitor Silver series on-walls for my sides and rears.

My receiver is a Denon 4308ci, although I'm probably going to trade up to the 5308 when it is available.

My sub is a Velodyne DD-18.

HT is my primary focus and music secondary, although obviously music still very important

My questions:

What are owner's thoughts on the S8 and C5 combo?

Are the V.2 of the S8s/C5s 'bright'? (I really am prone to 'ear fatigue' if the speakers are very harsh and/or bright sounding, and much prefer a speaker that is somewhat on the 'warm' side. I have read wonderful reviews of the S8 albeit the original version I believe, but have also read individual comments that the S8 is excessively 'bright').

Would the S8/C5 combo work well with my existing Monitor surrounds, or would it be best to also trade for the matching Paradigm surrounds? (I understand that in a perfect world I should buy the same brand/type of speakers all around, but am wondering if I'll notice much improvement over the Monitors since these are surrounds only).

Will the Velo DD-18 work well with the S8/C5 combo? (The DD-18 is brand new, so I'll be keeping it for sure, but needed to ask).

If I order the S8/C5 combo in gloss black, is there a reasonable expectation of receiving a decent discount from MSRP? (I know this is dealer dependent, but would like to know a range of %'s that people have been able to negotiate off of MSRP).

Lastly I understand that how the S8/C5 combo sounds to ME is the most important thing, but it is doubtful that my nearest dealer will have them in stock, (they likely will have either the S4 or S6); hence I may have to order 'sound un-heard'.

Thanks for any help,
Bish


Hey bish.... I don't think I saw anyone answer your post here...

Just want to let you know, that Im not sure there are alot of people that have the new .v2 sigs which is probably the reason you are not getting any response... I have seen a ton of questions over many months, and hopefully you have done a search on the speaker forum and PM'd anyone that has maybe purchased the new sigs... I love the look of them, and with my purchase of Studio .v4, I would imagine they are great speakers...

I am dying to hear more reviews about the .v2 sigs myself..

Kal Rubinson (Music in the Round (http://www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/)) is going to be coming out with a review soon on the new S6's.
He has Studio 60's in his house in one of his systems... and his other system consists of B&W 802D's

Just a heads up if your still interested in them... :)
I have dreams, and those speakers are in a few of them... :)

I'd be interested in hearing back from ya to see what knowledge you have gained in your search... :)

Warp

Currently, I am running an older Paradigm CC150 or CC170 (can't remember). I listened to the CC370 at length previously and loved it. There was also the CC450 that I auditioned some time ago that was darn nice as well.

The time has come and I am considering a CC290. Since this is an in-store credit, there is no discount from the retail price of $500 (CAD) less the in-store credit.

Is this a good upgrade?

Fronts are Monitor 9's (version 2 or 3 with the 7.5 inch woofers, not the V5's) + PS1000.

Or would the in-store credit be better used for a Plasma or a DVD player?

At this point, I have been going back and forth! My guess is electronics will always go down in price and hence the CC290 might be a better buy given that it's an in-store credit.

Any thoughts?

I see a lot of cross talk between the Kuro thread and the Paradigm thread! Nuance, those are so different that I wouldn't chalk up ANY perceived differences to the v3 vs. v4 difference. You cannot compare a bookshelf speaker to a floor standing speaker unless you add a good musical sub to the bookshelf and spend time integrating them. You have major trade offs going to a bookshelf and the differences are amazing. I bought my first Paradigm Studio 60v1 from a guy with a set of Signature S2's. He demoed his S2's vs. the 60v1 and the 60v1 had a way better sound due to the better overall frequency response.

He was upgrading to a set of Wilson Audio speakers. When he A/B comapred the Sigs to the 60v1 I could see in his face his surprise at how good the 60v1 sounded compared to the Sigs. I thought it was kind of funny, but I got an amazing deal (including a virtually new B&W HTM1 for $400).

I completely get what you are saying, and while I agree, the midrange was just so different sounding... Anyway, I'll hold my tongue until I can hear a pair of the Studio 100 V.4's. Thanks for the info.

My pleasure. I'd offer to have you drop by and listen to mine, but the drive for you would be a bit much. :eek:

I completely get what you are saying, and while I agree, the midrange was just so different sounding... Anyway, I'll hold my tongue until I can hear a pair of the Studio 100 V.4's. Thanks for the info.

My pleasure. I'd offer to have you drop by and listen to mine, but the drive for you would be a bit much. :eek:

Yes it would, but thanks for the thought. :)

Currently, I am running an older Paradigm CC150 or CC170 (can't remember). I listened to the CC370 at length previously and loved it. There was also the CC450 that I auditioned some time ago that was darn nice as well.

The time has come and I am considering a CC290. Since this is an in-store credit, there is no discount from the retail price of $500 (CAD) less the in-store credit.

Is this a good upgrade?

Fronts are Monitor 9's (version 2 or 3 with the 7.5 inch woofers, not the V5's) + PS1000.

Or would the in-store credit be better used for a Plasma or a DVD player?

At this point, I have been going back and forth! My guess is electronics will always go down in price and hence the CC290 might be a better buy given that it's an in-store credit.

Any thoughts?

Any thoughts on this one? It would be appreciated.

Is there anyone in south Orange County, California that has a Paradigm setup that would be will to let me come over and listen?

I am currently planning out a dedicated HT in a room that is 21x11. I really like what I have read about the Paradigms and am considering the following setup:
L/C/R - Studio 40s or 60s
SS - Studio ADP-590
RS - Studio 40s or 20s

Powering this would be a Denon 4308CI to start with external amp to follow if needed.

I tried finding a dealer in the area, but no one in south OC is a walkin dealer anymore, they are all custom shop that only want to sell you a whole HT setup (not good for a DIY-er). I even called Paradigm and they could not tell me anything that wasn't on their web site. Anyway, I am looking for either a Paradigm dealer in my area or a really nice HT fiend like myself that already has a setup and would be will to let me audition them.

If you know of a dealer or are willing to let me listen to your setup, please PM me.

Thanks

Howdy. 5 year long Paradigm lover here. I've always touted my Paradigms for the sound quality. Recently, as I've mentioned in my most recent threads I upgraded my receiver from a Yami v730 to at last a v1800. Now, I'm starting to think about upgrading my Paradigms. With the new receiver and the newer codecs I'm starting to feel as if I'm missing some mid-range. This could be my own delusion but I've always loved mid-range to low sound. It also could be that I want to spend even more money.

The setup we had all these long years are Cinema Series 90's front and rear. A CC90 (I think, its the Cinema Series Center) along with a 10" Paradigm Sub (It seems to have a lot of punch, so I'm not looking at it real seriously yet). I'm thinking of at the bare minimum upgrading to Monitor 9's up front and atleast a CC290 up front. Will my good old Cinema Series Rears still provide good sound from the rear and can I leave my current Cinema's in the rear? Or should I say to hell with it all and move to a combo of the 9's up front and something along the same range out back. I can get the 9's up front for about $1,000 for the pair.

My end goal is to have a dedicated home theatre when the wife and I decide on a new home but for now, enjoy new speakers in our 14x16 living room.

Anyhow, carry on....

-JD-

Is there anyone in south Orange County, California that has a Paradigm setup that would be will to let me come over and listen?

I am currently planning out a dedicated HT in a room that is 21x11. I really like what I have read about the Paradigms and am considering the following setup:
L/C/R - Studio 40s or 60s
SS - Studio ADP-590
RS - Studio 40s or 20s

Powering this would be a Denon 4308CI to start with external amp to follow if needed.

I tried finding a dealer in the area, but no one in south OC is a walkin dealer anymore, they are all custom shop that only want to sell you a whole HT setup (not good for a DIY-er). I even called Paradigm and they could not tell me anything that wasn't on their web site. Anyway, I am looking for either a Paradigm dealer in my area or a really nice HT fiend like myself that already has a setup and would be will to let me audition them.

If you know of a dealer or are willing to let me listen to your setup, please PM me.

Thanks


Digital Ear is in Socal they have them you can go listen to, I live in OC also but im not a showroom heh. I was just there about 20 min ago getting my CC190 replaced and they have some monitor series in one of the rooms, im not sure if they are hooked up but call and talk to Jordan, he can tell you anything you might need to know.

Digital Ear is in Socal they have them you can go listen to, I live in OC also but im not a showroom heh. I was just there about 20 min ago getting my CC190 replaced and they have some monitor series in one of the rooms, im not sure if they are hooked up but call and talk to Jordan, he can tell you anything you might need to know.
Did you get another cc190? or did you upgrade? Do tell, how do you like the new speaker?

Did you get another cc190? or did you upgrade? Do tell, how do you like the new speaker?

My CC190 was damaged it was just a replacement.

Paradigm owners,

I am close to purchasing Paradigm Studio 100’s and CC-690 for a new home theater and have a few questions:

1. Can this setup be properly powered by a Denon 4308 or do I need a separate 2 channel amp to drive the Studio 100’s?
2. How high/tall is the CC-690 without the feet attached? If my TV stand only has an 8 ¼ inch high opening, but has an additional 2” high clearance, will the speaker drivers be blocked?
3. If my couch is directly against the rear wall where my rear speakers will be placed, are the ADP 590’s a good choice or is there a better option? Is it ok to have a dipole speaker directly overhead? It would be nice to have smaller speakers.

Thanks.

I've been considering buying the Studio 40's to replace my 15 year old Reference 3a MMs fronts. In my looking around I have come upon three used Paradigm Active LCR 450's (used as fronts and centre) for sale and was wondering if these speakers would present a noticeable improvement to my existing set-up and how would they compare to the Studio 40's.

BTW, I have a big room, and the rest of my kit is a Paradigm PW2100 sub, Monitor Audio Silver centre, Monitor Audio Silver rears, NAD 753, and a Toshiba HD XA1.

Thanks for any and all input.

Paradigm owners,

I am close to purchasing Paradigm Studio 100’s and CC-690 for a new home theater and have a few questions:

1. Can this setup be properly powered by a Denon 4308 or do I need a separate 2 channel amp to drive the Studio 100’s?
2. How high/tall is the CC-690 without the feet attached? If my TV stand only has an 8 ¼ inch high opening, but has an additional 2” high clearance, will the speaker drivers be blocked?
3. If my couch is directly against the rear wall where my rear speakers will be placed, are the ADP 590’s a good choice or is there a better option? Is it ok to have a dipole speaker directly overhead? It would be nice to have smaller speakers.

Thanks.

You can run the 100's from a good reciever.

The adp's are really designed to be a side speaker. Put them about 1 1/2 to 2 ft out from the corners.

3. If my couch is directly against the rear wall where my rear speakers will be placed, are the ADP 590’s a good choice or is there a better option? Is it ok to have a dipole speaker directly overhead? It would be nice to have smaller speakers.

I had the same dilemma as you. my couches are really close to my back wall. I ended up going with 4 ADPs.. 2 for the sides and 2 for the rears. I was concerned that the couches would be too close to direct radiating speakers.

What's more highly recommended for a neutral, natural sound when paired with Monitor 9's, CC290, ADP390: the Denon 3808CI, or the Onkyo 805? Sub with the system is PW-2200.

Hello,

Do you guys have any tips on finding a CC-470 or CC-570 (v3) for sale? I purchased v3 studio 60s for my fronts but am having the hardest time finding a center to go with them! Let me know if you see any for sale in black ash.

Thanks,
Casey

Crossover setting for center help:


On my CC370 spec I saw this:

Low-Frequency Extension* 57 Hz (DIN)

Frequency Response: On-Axis ±2 dB from 100 Hz - 20 kHz


The LFE setting is 57 but the FR is 100? Does that mean I should use 100 as a minimum for my crossover frequency on the receiver?

Hello,

Do you guys have any tips on finding a CC-470 or CC-570 (v3) for sale? I purchased v3 studio 60s for my fronts but am having the hardest time finding a center to go with them! Let me know if you see any for sale in black ash.

Thanks,
Casey


I have a cc470 v.3 in black ash. I would love to upgrade to the cc 590 or cc 690. Are you near Philadelphia? If not, might not be worth the trouble. You can see the cc470 in my pictures (see my signature).

Edit: By the way, I have Studio 20s v.3 for my fronts. Why would you not want the new 590 or 690 v.4s to go with your v.3 fronts. I'm sure it will sound fine.

Howdy. 5 year long Paradigm lover here. I've always touted my Paradigms for the sound quality. Recently, as I've mentioned in my most recent threads I upgraded my receiver from a Yami v730 to at last a v1800. Now, I'm starting to think about upgrading my Paradigms. With the new receiver and the newer codecs I'm starting to feel as if I'm missing some mid-range. This could be my own delusion but I've always loved mid-range to low sound. It also could be that I want to spend even more money.

The setup we had all these long years are Cinema Series 90's front and rear. A CC90 (I think, its the Cinema Series Center) along with a 10" Paradigm Sub (It seems to have a lot of punch, so I'm not looking at it real seriously yet). I'm thinking of at the bare minimum upgrading to Monitor 9's up front and atleast a CC290 up front. Will my good old Cinema Series Rears still provide good sound from the rear and can I leave my current Cinema's in the rear? Or should I say to hell with it all and move to a combo of the 9's up front and something along the same range out back. I can get the 9's up front for about $1,000 for the pair.

My end goal is to have a dedicated home theatre when the wife and I decide on a new home but for now, enjoy new speakers in our 14x16 living room.

Anyhow, carry on....

-JD-

I think that would be a damn fine sounding set-up.

Paradigm owners,

I am close to purchasing Paradigm Studio 100’s and CC-690 for a new home theater and have a few questions:

1. Can this setup be properly powered by a Denon 4308 or do I need a separate 2 channel amp to drive the Studio 100’s?
2. How high/tall is the CC-690 without the feet attached? If my TV stand only has an 8 ¼ inch high opening, but has an additional 2” high clearance, will the speaker drivers be blocked?
3. If my couch is directly against the rear wall where my rear speakers will be placed, are the ADP 590’s a good choice or is there a better option? Is it ok to have a dipole speaker directly overhead? It would be nice to have smaller speakers.

Thanks.

I think you would be better off with a separate amp for those 100s.

I don't know about the 690, check Paradigm's website for dimensions.

Were you planning a 7.1 system? With that arrangement you might be better off just going with a 5.1 set-up and use direct radiators on the side walls. If you're only planning a 5.1 then the speakers should ideally be on the side walls.

I think you would be better off with a separate amp for those 100s.

I don't know about the 690, check Paradigm's website for dimensions.

Were you planning a 7.1 system? With that arrangement you might be better off just going with a 5.1 set-up and use direct radiators on the side walls. If you're only planning a 5.1 then the speakers should ideally be on the side walls.

Nuthed - Thank you for your input. In regards to the 690, it is difficult to tell from the Paradigm website how tall the speaker is without the feet. It simply states that it is 9 7/16 inclusive of spikes or outrigger feet.

In regards to 7.1/5.1, my to options are a) 5.1 with two rear speakers, or 4.1 with one side speaker (I have an open area one side that prevents me from having a right channel). What do you think would be best in this situation?

Thanks.

I have a cc470 v.3 in black ash. I would love to upgrade to the cc 590 or cc 690. Are you near Philadelphia? If not, might not be worth the trouble. You can see the cc470 in my pictures (see my signature).

Edit: By the way, I have Studio 20s v.3 for my fronts. Why would you not want the new 590 or 690 v.4s to go with your v.3 fronts. I'm sure it will sound fine.

No I'm not near Philadelphia, I'm in Florida. Maybe we could arrange some kind of shipping? How much would you want for the speaker?

I have thought about just getting the CC-590 but I'm not sure I want to spend that much right now for a new one.

This is in fact the EXACT setup that I use, seriously. I find the 4308 powers the my 100v4, cc-690, and ADP-590's just fine. Although with a 5 month old sleeping above the HT room, I haven't really cranked it much since I got everything together. =)

Paradigm owners,

I am close to purchasing Paradigm Studio 100’s and CC-690 for a new home theater and have a few questions:

1. Can this setup be properly powered by a Denon 4308 or do I need a separate 2 channel amp to drive the Studio 100’s?
2. How high/tall is the CC-690 without the feet attached? If my TV stand only has an 8 ¼ inch high opening, but has an additional 2” high clearance, will the speaker drivers be blocked?
3. If my couch is directly against the rear wall where my rear speakers will be placed, are the ADP 590’s a good choice or is there a better option? Is it ok to have a dipole speaker directly overhead? It would be nice to have smaller speakers.

Thanks.

No I'm not near Philadelphia, I'm in Florida. Maybe we could arrange some kind of shipping? How much would you want for the speaker?

I have thought about just getting the CC-590 but I'm not sure I want to spend that much right now for a new one.

I don't think I'd want the shipping hassles -- I'd be looking for around 500.

Nuthed - Thank you for your input. In regards to the 690, it is difficult to tell from the Paradigm website how tall the speaker is without the feet. It simply states that it is 9 7/16 inclusive of spikes or outrigger feet.

In regards to 7.1/5.1, my to options are a) 5.1 with two rear speakers, or 4.1 with one side speaker (I have an open area one side that prevents me from having a right channel). What do you think would be best in this situation?

Thanks.

As far as the 690, chances are that it doesn't include outriggers or spikes. More likely its like most CCs and comes with small, thin rubber pads. If thats the case you'll only lose about 1/8" to 3/16" at most.

I would go 5.1 with the speakers mounted on the rear wall since thats your only option. My gut feeling is to use direct radiating speakers, however someone else posted that they have a similar arrangement and their use of ADPs works fine. I would try both ways IF you have an accomodating dealer. Good luck.

Too many pages to look through. Does anyone have the 5.1 cinema setup and how do you like it? How is the sub? Should I purchase the satellites and center seperate and go with an HSE $400 sub? Thanks.

Hey, looking for opinions. I know nothing about the technical end of things, so going by what I've read I purchased the Studio100's, CC-590, Seismec 10 sub and the SA15R in-ceilings for surrounds. I have to use in-ceiling surrounds because I have no back wall[open to kitchen/dining area] and one of my sidewalls is angled. I'm having second thoughts about the surrounds. Does anyone have any thoughts/recommendations on high end in-ceiling surrounds? Am I ok with the SA15R's? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

Hey Warpdrv

How have you been? How's the gas station/car wash going?

I forgot that you picked up a pair of the Studio 100 v.4's didn't you? What did you think of them in comparison to the v.3's? I am in the market again and loved the v3's I listened to over at Audio Emporium last weekend (Dave was there). But he didn't have the v.4 studio 60's or 100's.

Hey all,
I've been reading this forum for quite some time and just joined the mix.
I was hoping I could get some advice from some other Paradigm owners...
I am currently running a 7.1 Cinema CT110 system for my dedicated theater room. 110's on the l/c/r and the ADP's for my rears and surrounds and the Cinema CT sub.
I have the opportunity to purchase a reasonably priced Cinema 330 that I was planning on using as a new center.
Am I going to hear any real difference in this 330 as opposed to the current 110? I know the drivers are identical between the two speakers (with the exception of the bass drivers in the 330). I LOVE my current system, but am looking for a little bit of a fuller sound from the center. Will the 330 do it, or am I just replacing my current one with almost the same thing?
Thanks for any advice!

Hey, looking for opinions. I know nothing about the technical end of things, so going by what I've read I purchased the Studio100's, CC-590, Seismec 10 sub and the SA15R in-ceilings for surrounds. I have to use in-ceiling surrounds because I have no back wall[open to kitchen/dining area] and one of my sidewalls is angled. I'm having second thoughts about the surrounds. Does anyone have any thoughts/recommendations on high end in-ceiling surrounds? Am I ok with the SA15R's? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

I have a similar situation and had to go with in-ceiling surrounds. I went with these http://www.inwallstore.com/atc82.html. Much cheaper than the Paradigms and perform surround duties great. Good freq. response, well built and handle enough power to be driven by my dedicated amp. When I finally get a dedicated theater I will get some ADP's but these sound good and the price is right.

Any thoughts on the Monitor 7's compared to the Atom's? I currently have Atom's, CC-190, ADP 190, and PDR8. I would like to get floorstanding speakers so I can listed to Music in 2.0, because IMO the Atom's dont do well without a subwoofer. Would the 7's be a big improvement? Then I could put the Atom's as my Surround Backs.

Bump

Well, I found that with my Monitor 7's I needed to get a subwoofer. I actually just retired my Monitor 7's today and replaced them with Studio 60's. If you can afford them or are willing to wait and save up some more money for your new speakers I would suggest you skip the Monitor 7's and get Studio 60's. It's a matter of taste but I am really impressed with the Studio's and won't miss the 7's.

how do you think a set of monitor 11's, cc-390, pb-13 ultra, and a set of axiom qs8 surrounds would sound together? think the qs8's would be much different then say the adp-390's? I would just prefer the axiom surrounds because you can get them in cherry and the paradigm's only in black. Also like the stand combo for the axiom as I can't wall mount.

I want to replace the floor standing Phantoms with wall mounted speakers. I talked to the local Paradigm dealer and he tried to steer me away from the Cinema 330s and towards the Millenia 20s. He does not have the Millena's in stock so I cannot listen to them. I plan on listening to the Cinema 330s but would like to hear from anyone that has heard both and any other comments about wall mounting either of these speakers, or if I should consider any other alternatives.

Crossover setting for center help:


On my CC370 spec I saw this:

Low-Frequency Extension* 57 Hz (DIN)

Frequency Response: On-Axis ±2 dB from 100 Hz - 20 kHz


The LFE setting is 57 but the FR is 100? Does that mean I should use 100 as a minimum for my crossover frequency on the receiver?


I really wish somebody could answer the q, I also have the CC370 with M7 front and Mini as surround. Is 80Hz x-over OK in this setup?

I didn't listen to the 7's. I did listen to the 9's and the 11's. As per some other comments, I found that the 9's were amazing but still lacked the punch I wanted for 2.0 so I went for the 11's although for HT use, they are a bit much, for 2.0, they are incredible! IMHO, I would never go lower than 9's...

As for the ADP 390's, I agree that the black ones aren't that pretty in black. They would look so musch better in cherry... I don't know how the Axioms would sound with them though. I have no clue.

I want to replace the floor standing Phantoms with wall mounted speakers. I talked to the local Paradigm dealer and he tried to steer me away from the Cinema 330s and towards the Millenia 20s. He does not have the Millena's in stock so I cannot listen to them. I plan on listening to the Cinema 330s but would like to hear from anyone that has heard both and any other comments about wall mounting either of these speakers, or if I should consider any other alternatives.

It depends what you are "looking" for. Are you more interested in aesthetics or performance. If you are looking for a bit of both, The Monitor 9's or 11's will make you happy. I auditioned the Millenia's and there is no doubt that they sound superb. They do come at a higher cost and dont have enough bass to stand on their own (for 2.0 listening). But again, Wow! they look and sound great! Personally, I would not get the Cinema series unless the increment $$ of the Monitors or Millenia's is an issue.

I really wish somebody could answer the q, I also have the CC370 with M7 front and Mini as surround. Is 80Hz x-over OK in this setup?

There is no set in stone xover settings, try different ones see what sounds better to you. 80 is the standard that alot of people use but it is by no means the given one thats perfect for every single system.

thanks WaTaGuMp,
but my q is more about the CC370 (v.4), how will it play between: 80-100Hz i dont have a test tones and can not find a review wiht a plot graph for those freq.

thanks WaTaGuMp,
but my q is more about the CC370 (v.4), how will it play between: 80-100Hz i dont have a test tones and can not find a review wiht a plot graph for those freq.

Test it and see I run a CC190 and use 60HZ for my setting, it only needs to sound good to you. People run all sorts of settings but like I said the most common is 80 and even some guides say almost every setup should just use 80.

thanks WaTaGuMp,
but my q is more about the CC370 (v.4), how will it play between: 80-100Hz i dont have a test tones and can not find a review wiht a plot graph for those freq.

Here are links to software that you can use to create a test CD for the purpose of measuring and set up for your subwoofer and search out bad nodes in your room:
http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

There are 3 different downloads including graphing charts.

If you are so inclined, I have a Linkwitz Lab Excel spreadsheet which allows you to drop in your room dimensions and it calculates room nodes in every possible combination. As I don't know how to post it for download on this forum unless someone can instruct me, I will email it to you. PM your email address.;)

Well, after 6 revisions of my budget, I decided to get the best speakers for my money, and I think Paradigms are what I'm going with. A couple of questions for all of you pros out there.

Basics: (eventual) 5.1 system, have $800-900 initially just for the left/right mains and center channel, have 2 rears already to use in interim.

Option 1:
TITAN monitors $525
CC-190 center $275
(Later: Mini Monitors for rears, $400)

Right at my upper limit of budget. Question: would the TITAN mains crush the CC-190? That is, would they dominate the CC-190 so much that I would have to artificially boost the center channel a lot in the receiver? I wish I could get the CC-290, but alas, budget woes.

Option 2:
Mini Monitors $400
CC-190 center $275
(Later: More Minis! $400)

With the CC-190, would this be more balance than with the TITAN? Would there be less likelihood of having to increase the gain on the center channel in the receiver?

Some more background if you're interested: I was initially looking at Atoms, but the 90Hz cutoff at the low end of the range had me worried I would have a 10Hz gap between that and 80Hz crossover for the sub, so I bumped the budget up to consider Mini (70Hz) and TITAN (Sweet mercy, 65Hz). I was wondering if anyone from experience could tell me if that combination of mains and center would work out well.

Also, as much as I would love them, the ADP surrounds will not fit into my budget, so thanks for your advice based on what I have here.

Well, after 6 revisions of my budget, I decided to get the best speakers for my money, and I think Paradigms are what I'm going with. A couple of questions for all of you pros out there.

Basics: (eventual) 5.1 system, have $800-900 initially just for the left/right mains and center channel, have 2 rears already to use in interim.

Option 1:
TITAN monitors $525
CC-190 center $275
(Later: Mini Monitors for rears, $400)

Right at my upper limit of budget. Question: would the TITAN mains crush the CC-190? That is, would they dominate the CC-190 so much that I would have to artificially boost the center channel a lot in the receiver? I wish I could get the CC-290, but alas, budget woes.

Option 2:
Mini Monitors $400
CC-190 center $275
(Later: More Minis! $400)

With the CC-190, would this be more balance than with the TITAN? Would there be less likelihood of having to increase the gain on the center channel in the receiver?

Some more background if you're interested: I was initially looking at Atoms, but the 90Hz cutoff at the low end of the range had me worried I would have a 10Hz gap between that and 80Hz crossover for the sub, so I bumped the budget up to consider Mini (70Hz) and TITAN (Sweet mercy, 65Hz). I was wondering if anyone from experience could tell me if that combination of mains and center would work out well.

Also, as much as I would love them, the ADP surrounds will not fit into my budget, so thanks for your advice based on what I have here.

You should be aware by now that the CENTER channel in a HT system is critical for the vast amount of dialog you will be experiencing in both DVD and TV watching!!!!:eek: The CC-290 is the sweet spot in that series.

I would plant your feet firmly with the CC-290, The Mini Monitors outperform the Titans $ vs $ and will give you better balance with the CC-290. Furthermore, you can then opt for the Mini's or Atoms in the rear. All for less that you plan on spending. You may save enough to go 7.1!!!!;)

This setup will play plenty loud with the right Sub(HSU)!:D

I agree with Gino. Don't skimp out on the center channel. The Minis will work well for you and if budget permits, go with the Minis for rear once you get there. I also agree with the sub choice. I am ordering the HSU VTF3.3 this week (10% off). You system will be lound but also very controlled. You won't regret it.

I really wish somebody could answer the q, I also have the CC370 with M7 front and Mini as surround. Is 80Hz x-over OK in this setup?

The enclosure isn't tuned low enough for a 80hz crossover point really. That's why I made a horizontal version of the Monitor 5 enclosure for my CC-370's drivers.

I agree with Gino. Don't skimp out on the center channel. The Minis will work well for you and if budget permits, go with the Minis for rear once you get there. I also agree with the sub choice. I am ordering the HSU VTF3.3 this week (10% off). You system will be lound but also very controlled. You won't regret it.

Thanks for the support!

Too many folks on a limited budget are going the route of Definitive Technology.
Thinking they can by on the cheap. Cheap is what they will get!

Paradigm has earned its reputation on 1st rate sonic performance over 20 years. they desgin their speakers for 2 channel reproduction and THEN make them accommodating for the Home theater experience.

Definitive has all but relinquished the 2 channel arena. vis-a-vis Bi-polar.

Why did I go on this stream of consciousness you ask? Well its because I missed making this statement in the earlier post! As a point of reference.

The system I endorse will easily produce 105-110db with minimal audible distortion in a 3000cu ft room(given the right amplification of course:eek:) and provide the greatest flexibility for future growth.;)

Well, after 6 revisions of my budget, I decided to get the best speakers for my money, and I think Paradigms are what I'm going with. A couple of questions for all of you pros out there.

Basics: (eventual) 5.1 system, have $800-900 initially just for the left/right mains and center channel, have 2 rears already to use in interim.

Option 1:
TITAN monitors $525
CC-190 center $275
(Later: Mini Monitors for rears, $400)

Right at my upper limit of budget. Question: would the TITAN mains crush the CC-190? That is, would they dominate the CC-190 so much that I would have to artificially boost the center channel a lot in the receiver? I wish I could get the CC-290, but alas, budget woes.

Option 2:
Mini Monitors $400
CC-190 center $275
(Later: More Minis! $400)

With the CC-190, would this be more balance than with the TITAN? Would there be less likelihood of having to increase the gain on the center channel in the receiver?

Some more background if you're interested: I was initially looking at Atoms, but the 90Hz cutoff at the low end of the range had me worried I would have a 10Hz gap between that and 80Hz crossover for the sub, so I bumped the budget up to consider Mini (70Hz) and TITAN (Sweet mercy, 65Hz). I was wondering if anyone from experience could tell me if that combination of mains and center would work out well.

Also, as much as I would love them, the ADP surrounds will not fit into my budget, so thanks for your advice based on what I have here.

I have the exact setup of the Titans and the CC190 and no they dont crush the CC190, rear speakers will be the ADP 190's down the road, I also use a ML Dynamo sub.

You should be aware by now that the CENTER channel in a HT system is critical for the vast amount of dialog you will be experiencing in both DVD and TV watching!!!!:eek: The CC-290 is the sweet spot in that series.

I would plant your feet firmly with the CC-290, The Mini Monitors outperform the Titans $ vs $ and will give you better balance with the CC-290. Furthermore, you can then opt for the Mini's or Atoms in the rear. All for less that you plan on spending. You may save enough to go 7.1!!!!;)

This setup will play plenty loud with the right Sub(HSU)!:D

I am aware of the importance of the center channel, so that's why I asked about the TITAN. I would l-o-v-e to have those 6.5" woofers from the CC-290, but my overall budget for speakers is going to be $1200 at first burst, then I'll add rears later. I wanted to get the HSU STF-2 (~$400), so that leaves me like I said with $800-900 for 3 speakers, so is it your opinion that a pair of Mini Monitors/CC-290 (about $825) would be better matched than the TITAN/190?

Also, as an HSU owner, any opinion on the STF-2? I really wanted the SVS PB10-NSD, but it's about $475, so it would be yet another stretch on the budget, and if I had to choose, I'd rather spend the funds on mains rather than something that covers only about 75Hz of the range.

And, finally, another newbie question, how does the woofer size influence performance in the CC-290 vs 190? I know it's a 1-inch difference, but how does it affect things like sensitivity? Does it have any effect on something like the crossovers? Why would they have a lower crossover over on the 290? Is it because the drivers are slightly better constructed/better quality that they can handle those lower frequencies?

Finally, thanks for your replies...first real serious responses I have gotten on any forum when asking about speakers, so thanks a ton all.

**Redflagdan** I have the Millenia 20s and like them quite a bit. I also have a pair of Mini Monitors as fronts for my "old" HT setup as a point of reference.

I would steer clear of the Cinema series.

Finally, thanks for your replies...first real serious responses I have gotten on any forum when asking about speakers, so thanks a ton all.

Paradigm owners really love their speakers and of course great audiophile-quality sound!

I am aware of the importance of the center channel, so that's why I asked about the TITAN. I would l-o-v-e to have those 6.5" woofers from the CC-290, but my overall budget for speakers is going to be $1200 at first burst, then I'll add rears later. I wanted to get the HSU STF-2 (~$400), so that leaves me like I said with $800-900 for 3 speakers, so is it your opinion that a pair of Mini Monitors/CC-290 (about $825) would be better matched than the TITAN/190?

Also, as an HSU owner, any opinion on the STF-2? I really wanted the SVS PB10-NSD, but it's about $475, so it would be yet another stretch on the budget, and if I had to choose, I'd rather spend the funds on mains rather than something that covers only about 75Hz of the range.

And, finally, another newbie question, how does the woofer size influence performance in the CC-290 vs 190? I know it's a 1-inch difference, but how does it affect things like sensitivity? Does it have any effect on something like the crossovers? Why would they have a lower crossover over on the 290? Is it because the drivers are slightly better constructed/better quality that they can handle those lower frequencies?

Finally, thanks for your replies...first real serious responses I have gotten on any forum when asking about speakers, so thanks a ton all.

In short the CC290 is 66% larger internally, 4" longer outside, has an additional 10hz lower range(80hz) it's 3db down point is 46hz and is about 1db more efficient than the C190, 3db down point is 54hz. This bodes well for the future should you increase the sizes of the front L&R speakers.

The CC390 is only 5hz lower(75hz), 3db down point is 43hz.

You can see from these comparisons, the CC290 is more in line with the bigger unit , than the CC190 is to the CC290. That should be telling enough;)

The HSU STF@ is a fine unit for rooms less than 3000CU ft. Its 10" woofer is fast, 200watts of BASH amp is plenty power. However for another $150 you get the better unit=VTF-2 mkIII Which COULD stay in your system for a long time.... Even if you go up to about a 4500cu ft room!!!!!

I believe HSU has a sale going right now.. another 10% off on the VTF-3 MKIII for $629.00! This is where I would spend my money right now. Go with the Mini's in the front along with the CC290 and then buy the Atoms or Minis for the rear when you get rich. Remember, for a great house to be great is must be built on a great foundation:D

Any opinions in regards to the Studio 100's compared to the S4's? My wife likes the look of the S4's compared to the 100's. Got to keep her/us happy!