Paradigm Owners Thread? [Text View] - Page 24

srckkmack

11-11-07, 07:35 PM

Good idea about the stereo mode...I hadn't thought of that. But no, the Onkyo receiver only outputs about 80W with all channels driven if reviews are a good indication. I've been thinking about makeshift stands but I'm coming up with nothing...I need approx. 24" of height. The shelf is open, about 2 feet of space on either side of the speaker but the shelf right above the speaker is about 2" and its 2" from the back...this could be the problem, huh? I've got acoustic foam from partsexpress but maybe its not cutting the mustard...where can I get a set of the Auralex pads (I'm in central Texas)? Thanks for all the recommendations.

The shelf above the speaker may be a problem. 2" above and behind is not much.

You should try makeshift stands just to experiment about the sound. Try setting them temporarily on kitchen chairs, or folding tables, etc. Then listen. If they work, then you should pursue some speaker stands instead of using the shelves.

The Auralex MoPads can be found at many locations, including Guitar Center. They are also available online at places like Amazon.com.

droid56

11-11-07, 10:16 PM

I just bought a pair of Atoms v5, and I'm really impressed with them, particularly considering their price. When I compare the specs for the Atom and the Mini, I assume that the Mini could play louder without distorting, and that it would provide a bit more bass. Are these the only 2 differences? Or is there any reason to believe that the bigger speaker would also have other benefits, such as improved imaging or soundstage?

wHaCkY

11-11-07, 11:06 PM

Going to audition the Mini Monitors and the CC-290 this weekend! I really see a big difference in the service level- the authorized Paradigm dealer in my area was very courteous, encourage me to bring in whatever test material I wanted, and asked me what time I was showing up so he could have it all set up!

Man, if only I could come up with the money between now and tomorrow!!

Any suggestions for DVD/music to listen to? I have a few selections already, but any suggestions are welcome! :D

Dreaming of wonderful speakers tonight...

I love my mini monitors V.3. I demoed the monitor 7's and 9's and studio 20's not too long ago and used a bunch of different music.

A couple I like, but may not be your taste, are Beck's Information and Radiohead's Hail to the Thief. A good classical recording is always good to try as well. Most important is to use music YOU listen to. They will be your speakers and you will be listening to your music on them. Have fun. Listening to different speakers can be a blast.

thrand1

11-12-07, 01:52 PM

Wow, what a weekend. I spent all day Saturday with a friend who has more home theater knowledge than I do auditioning speakers at a local shop, thought I might share my experience for any other new people to this thread.

Quick summary: Overall budget of about $2k for receiver, DVD player, 5 speakers and sub, budget of about $1200 for speakers.

I built a reference CD with 60-90 second clips of music (easier than swapping CDs out) to listen to. I had 15 tracks total, and played through them with the Minis as well as the Titans. Here's a brief on them:

- 4 jazz clips (3 Norah Jones, which turned out to be a pretty good recording in terms of quality, and 1 Dave Brubeck recorded in mono)
- 3 hard rock clips (Megadeth! I wanted to hear if the instrument stage blended to mush or if you could still pick out individual instruments)
- 3 classical clips (Bach's Air on G String, Itzhak Perlman violin solo, drum-heavy clip from Battlestar Galactica season 2)
- 2 acoustic guitar clips (Tim Reynolds, "Stream", from Live at Luther College with Dave Matthews, and Elliott Smith)
- 4 rap/R&B/hiphop just to annoy people in the store :p

(DISCLAIMER: I am NOT by any means an audiophile, expert/pro/reviewer, nor do I possess a Ph.D in audio engineering, just my personal observations)

- The most neutral speakers I have listened to up to this point in my search. Did the usual Best Buy/Circuit City route listening to Boston Audio, Polks, etc, and the Minis maintained a much more neutral (with inclinations towards warm on the bass if anything) sound even with songs geared towards higher frequency vocals/instruments.
- Really great sound dispersion. Standing at different points throughout the room while listening to them, I didn't feel as though the sound was being "beamed" at me even though the Minis are, well, "mini".
- Good bass response, even from 6.5" woofers. The rap tracks had incredible feedback even without a subwoofer present.

Then ran through the Titans, and although I felt there was more of an "oomph" from the Titans on bass, I didn't feel as though they offered SUBSTANTIALLY better sound quality than the Minis for my application. However, if I change my mind later (I'm only buying 3.1 right now, other "2" come later), I can always get those big boys for the fronts!

I was pretty much sold on the Minis, and I hadn't even listened to them in surround settings! For movies, here's a sampler of what we watched:
- Lord of the Rings: Ring drop/Sauron explodes (FOTR), Battle of Pelennor Fields/Olyphant Charge (ROTK)
- Finding Nemo (Darla taps the tank)

The surround experience was where my first disappointment came, but oddly enough, it wasn't with the speakers, it was the shop we were at. We asked to listen to the Minis on the fronts with the 290 centers (ADP surrounds were in place already), and the guy wired them up and we started listening. I was amazed, how could Minis have this much range? The guy came back and "oops, I forgot to wire them up"- we had been listening to Studio floorstandings and the 390 centers :mad: So then he hooked up the actual speakers and we relistened, and of course it was a lot different, but listening to the 290's definitely cemented that aspect for me- I'm going to go ahead and get the 290's with Minis instead of the 190's with Titans as I had thought before.

The 290's, like the Minis, offered superb clarity without sounding too shrill or cold, especially on the Pelennor Fields charge in ROTK (not too bass heavy, but the string theme playing in the background gives me chills!). Those things are pretty beastly though, I wonder how I'll be positioning this near the TV!!

Another part of my day was to listen and see what kind of sub would seem appropriate to accompany the Minis. My biggest question was if the Minis would need substantial backup from the sub to fill out the range. The sales guy seemed really keen on this Paradigm 10" sub that retails for $800 (but of course he was willing to give it to me for $500 if I purchased that day :rolleyes:). It was an okay sub, but I could see that if I wanted some SPL, I'd have to look elsewhere. As a result, I'm going to pinch some extra pennies and get the SVS PB10-NSD, because when Darla taps that tank, I want some plaster rearranged on my walls :D

Overall, the day was wonderful- almost like a baptism into the home theater world, if you will. The friend I was with is also shopping for speakers, but more along the lines of Revels and the Signature series from Paradigm, haha. Although I wish I had the budget to get something like he's getting, it was still fun just to hear my reference CD on those big honkin' speakers.

I did have a concern during the day, so any of your insights would be welcome:

The shop we were at had all the speakers hooked up to these ridiculous McIntosh amps ($3k+) and Marantz CD players ($4800+) and receivers. Will these speakers sound just miserable when I hook them up to my measly receiver? I'm looking at either an Onkyo 505 or 605. I know it will be a noticeable difference, but will the difference cause a "Jekyll/Hyde" effect on the speakers? I have about $350 budgeted for a receiver, so I don't know if there's anything I could do at all to minimize this disparity.

Thanks for reading my long post, I just feel like a kid in a candy store right now :D

bigrock66

11-12-07, 02:31 PM

I feel your pain, I just pick one of these monsters up last night a long with the pair of Studio 100's. Right now I have it on a 18" stand but looking for stand for the 60" panel and the massive cc-690.
The only stand I found so far is the Bello PVSC-4240E, it's a little small for my TV but but the shelf below will hold the speaker.

I am getting the Monitor series cc-390 which is about the same size (39"W). I did not find a stand that would really fit my needs. I am concerend about someone knocking it over... I decided to build my own stand that will basically be the same width and depth and I will fill it with insulation material.

bigrock66

11-12-07, 02:50 PM

Thrand,

Nice post,

Sounds like you ha d a fabulous time! It's really about what YOU like that counts. IMO, speakers (as long as your room is okay) are one of the most important pieces that make a difference. Now this doesn't mean that you can take any amp and they will keep sounding good. The opposite is also true for most people; you might not hear a big differece between a 1000$ Denon amp and a 3000$ MAC (Some eyes are rolling now, I know). These speakers are very sensitive and you will NOT need 100W/channel. You would be very happy with a HK AVR 247 or a 347. You don't need the flagship 745. Moreover, streetprices of the HK units are great.

BR

thrand1

11-12-07, 06:41 PM

Well, I just received an e-mail that a co-worker of one of my friends is selling his old Paradigm speakers. Seeing as how I am in the market, I thought I would get your opinions on this setup.

Paradigm Esprit/BP floor Bipolar Speakers... Bipolar 2-way with 4 drivers each cabinet Freq. response 39Hz - 22kHz low extension to 23 Hz. 64 lbs ea. 45.25" high X 8.5" wide X 13.25" deep... Bi-wire capable... Includes 2 sets of trim caps 1 in Black Ash and 1 in Hi Gloss Black, Carpet Spikes, and Original boxes/packing material.

Paradigm Reference LCR-450 Center Channel Speaker... 3-driver 2 way design... Freq. Response 70 Hz - 22kHz low extension to 42 Hz. 32 lbs... 22"wide X 8" high X 11.5" deep... Bi-wire capable... includes original boxes/packing material.

Paradigm ADP-150 Surround Speakers...Fixed bipole Speaker 4 drivers each cabinet, Freq. Response 90Hz - 20kHz. 9" wide X 10.5" high X 6.5" deep... Includes All mounting hardware and templates, and original boxes/ packing material.

He is offering all of this for $625.00. I should get the opportunity to audition the speakers to make sure they work OK.

Again just for reference, I was going to look at Mini Monitors with the CC-290. I notice these are older Paradigms, so I wanted to get some feedback. The Esprits were considered the sort of "entry level" Paradigm floorstanders, and the center as well as the ADP-150 have been replaced.

In your opinion, would it be worth it to get these? I'll admit it seems tempting, especially since they're floorstanding speakers, but if the quality wouldn't be any better than the speakers I was planning to get, I'll pass.

bigrock66

11-12-07, 06:59 PM

051473

11-12-07, 08:14 PM

tranzparentl

11-12-07, 10:20 PM

Is there any where to order Paradigm online or only through local dealers?

wHaCkY

11-12-07, 10:21 PM

I would stay with the newer speakers and buy a receiver that fits your budget. Onkyo makes some nice receivers in the entry level as well as HK as mentioned above.

You will not have trouble driving the paradigms with pretty much any modern receiver. They are very sensitive (but won't cry when you thrash them with a little LOTR). :D

The mini's, 290 and ADP 190's with SVS sub sounds nice to me.

wHaCkY

11-12-07, 10:22 PM

Is there any where to order Paradigm online or only through local dealers?

They are only through authorized dealers. Nothing online unless they are resales.

tranzparentl

11-12-07, 10:40 PM

What are their price ranges for mid size surround speakers?

I'm looking to spend about $300-400 on 2 rear speakers.

051473

11-12-07, 10:52 PM

In that price range you can get a pair of ADP-190's or Mini's.

Follow this link for suggested retail. http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html

dleto

11-13-07, 08:48 AM

I am getting the Monitor series cc-390 which is about the same size (39"W). I did not find a stand that would really fit my needs. I am concerend about someone knocking it over... I decided to build my own stand that will basically be the same width and depth and I will fill it with insulation material.

Pictures please, would like to see what you built.
I'm still on the hunt, but thought about building a stand for both TV and center just need to find the time.

I have to say after a couple of days with these speakers, WOW what sound. :D
I'm thrilled with them

bigrock66

11-13-07, 10:42 AM

Dleto,

My stand is not built yet. All I did was a "sketch-it" drawing for now... Like I said, it will be the same width and depth as the cc. It will be 24" high. I will stain it and make it fit it with the rest of my HT that I am currently building...

BR

tranzparentl

11-13-07, 11:32 AM

How much does it matter for you to "match" surround or center channel speakers to your regular front speakers?

The Paradigm Mini Monitor v.5 look really nice. Also this guy I work with has an extra Cinema 70 Center channel that came part of a 5.1 set and he doesn't need the center.

These are the fronts I have.

MTX AAL-1240 / 200 watts / 50Hz-22kHz

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11942699&postcount=7

So would it matter much which surrounds I got and if that center is decent or what?
thanks

Nuthed

11-13-07, 12:38 PM

The center and mains need to be matched. The surrounds with the mains? Not as important.

tcat

11-13-07, 04:08 PM

I've had Cinema series for a long while and am ready to upgrade, but must keep the wife happy (if the speakers were invisible, that'd do it). I have 90's front, 70's rear, 110 center, PSB-8 Sub. I only turn them on for DVD's, and don't listen too loud (usually). I have a large living room with 50" Plasma at one end. I was thinking the new Millenia might be a way to go, or move the 90's to the rear and add 2 more 110's (or 220's). Suggestions welcome.

lentiman

11-14-07, 11:50 AM

Yeah, so... what DVD/show are you watching there? You might want to list a warning like: NSFW...

I've had Cinema series for a long while and am ready to upgrade, but must keep the wife happy (if the speakers were invisible, that'd do it). I have 90's front, 70's rear, 110 center, PSB-8 Sub. I only turn them on for DVD's, and don't listen too loud (usually). I have a large living room with 50" Plasma at one end. I was thinking the new Millenia might be a way to go, or move the 90's to the rear and add 2 more 110's (or 220's). Suggestions welcome.

tcat

11-14-07, 11:59 AM

That was "BIG SHOTS" last Thursday night on ABC. Other suggestions?

lpaxmember

11-14-07, 01:26 PM

oztech

11-14-07, 01:50 PM

bigrock66

11-14-07, 01:57 PM

Hi,

I have a Paradigm Studio 20's I bought for listening to Audio exclusively. I want to now upgrade my speaker system to 5.1 surround sound. I am looking for price of < US$1000 for this upgrade. Anyone have any suggestions? Can I use the studio 20's with lowest cinema series speakers and sub?

This is what Paradigm suggests:
Fronts - Studio 20
Center - CC-590
Surr - APD 590
Sub Seismic 10

With their suggestion, that comes to about three grand (in addition to your 20's)... That said, Paradigm prides themselves on stating that their speakers are all matched no matter what the series. If this is true (you can be the judge of that when you go to the dealer), you could go with the Monitor series which will save you a ton of cash and you will still get great sound... The "equivalent", ahem, would be this:

CC-290 Centre
ADP-390 Rears
PW2100 or Ultracube 10"

You should be able to get this set for about 1200-1300. This will NOT sound as fabulous as your Studios (not much does) but it will give you something close and much more geared towards your budget...:cool:

Hope it helps! (BTW, The Cinema's are NOT worthy of your Studios)

BR

JOHNNYV.3

11-14-07, 02:34 PM

Just curious if anyone has purchased a Paradigm neon sign from the dude selling them on E-bay? And if so, How do you like it? Quality?

bigrock66

11-14-07, 02:39 PM

Just curious if anyone has purchased a Paradigm neon sign from the dude selling them on E-bay? And if so, How do you like it? Quality?

I was wondering the same thing. I'm also thinking about getting it...

lpaxmember

11-14-07, 02:45 PM

This is what Paradigm suggests:
Fronts - Studio 20
Center - CC-590
Surr - APD 590
Sub Seismic 10

With their suggestion, that comes to about three grand (in addition to your 20's)... That said, Paradigm prides themselves on stating that their speakers are all matched no matter what the series. If this is true (you can be the judge of that when you go to the dealer), you could go with the Monitor series which will save you a ton of cash and you will still get great sound... The "equivalent", ahem, would be this:

CC-290 Centre
ADP-390 Rears
PW2100 or Ultracube 10"

You should be able to get this set for about 1200-1300. This will NOT sound as fabulous as your Studios (not much does) but it will give you something close and much more geared towards your budget...:cool:

Hope it helps! (BTW, The Cinema's are NOT worthy of your Studios)

BR

Thanks for your suggestions. I will check out the prices on these.

Dan Hitchman

11-14-07, 03:02 PM

bobbyg1983

11-14-07, 04:09 PM

I've heard the Paradigms, got the Studio line, and no they don't "match" across the various model lineup... if they did there wouldn't be three or four separate quality stages. You reaaaaally should stick with the same Studio line for a coherent, timbrally matched setup. If you cannot afford to do so now, you should save some extra money until you can. You'll like your system a whole lot better.

IMHO.

Dan

I'm in agreement with Dan on this point. I went through a similar exercise. I currently run Studio 20s up front, which I'd upgraded to from Mini Monitors (which I'd used with the CC370 v.3 and another pair of mini-monitors for surrounds). I was upgrading in a step-by-step process, and used the Studio 20s with the CC370 as my center for about 6 months. It certainly didn't sound bad, but I definitely knew something was missing. My next upgrade was to the CC470 Studio series center channel, and it made a big difference. All of a sudden my front sound stage was markedly more coherent. I also noted that dialog intelligibility improved quite a bit with the Studio center. As far as the surrounds go, I'm still running Mini Monitors back there and I don't feel like I'm missing much (although I'll concede that my setup is far from optimal as far as surrounds go). For movies, I doubt there'd be too much of a noticeable difference if I swapped them for another pair of 20s. If you're into multichannel music, that would certainly change, although I'm still quite happy with how they perform with DVD-As and concert dvds. The subwoofer really needn't be Paradigm at all. Paradigm certainly makes great subs, but they really can't compete with the value you get out of the ID brands.

With all of that said, for a $1000 budget, I'd strongly recommend building up a 5.1 system in incremental steps. For home theater use, the center channel is really the key, and think that purchasing the CC-590 is a must. Then you can decide how to allocate the remainder of your budget, subwoofer and/or surrounds. I think that for movie watching you'd be safe going with the Monitor series for surrounds (but think that the cinema series would really be stepping too far in the wrong direction), and would look into ID brands for a great subwoofer (there are tons of choices here... have fun getting lost in the subwoofer forum!!). You won't necessarily be able to accomplish this all at once, but I think that you'll be MUCH happier with the result.

swgiust

11-14-07, 05:42 PM

Just curious if anyone has purchased a Paradigm neon sign from the dude selling them on E-bay? And if so, How do you like it? Quality?

I've got one. It's a nice sign, looks neat. It is small though. About the size of a piece of paper. Bought mine for basically the freight (which alot of his stuff goes for)

It's fun and your not getting hurt at $ 20.00 or so.

bigrock66

11-14-07, 06:19 PM

I'm in agreement with Dan on this point. I went through a similar exercise. I currently run Studio 20s up front, which I'd upgraded to from Mini Monitors (which I'd used with the CC370 v.3 and another pair of mini-monitors for surrounds). I was upgrading in a step-by-step process, and used the Studio 20s with the CC370 as my center for about 6 months. It certainly didn't sound bad, but I definitely knew something was missing. My next upgrade was to the CC470 Studio series center channel, and it made a big difference. All of a sudden my front sound stage was markedly more coherent. I also noted that dialog intelligibility improved quite a bit with the Studio center. As far as the surrounds go, I'm still running Mini Monitors back there and I don't feel like I'm missing much (although I'll concede that my setup is far from optimal as far as surrounds go). For movies, I doubt there'd be too much of a noticeable difference if I swapped them for another pair of 20s. If you're into multichannel music, that would certainly change, although I'm still quite happy with how they perform with DVD-As and concert dvds. The subwoofer really needn't be Paradigm at all. Paradigm certainly makes great subs, but they really can't compete with the value you get out of the ID brands.

With all of that said, for a $1000 budget, I'd strongly recommend building up a 5.1 system in incremental steps. For home theater use, the center channel is really the key, and think that purchasing the CC-590 is a must. Then you can decide how to allocate the remainder of your budget, subwoofer and/or surrounds. I think that for movie watching you'd be safe going with the Monitor series for surrounds (but think that the cinema series would really be stepping too far in the wrong direction), and would look into ID brands for a great subwoofer (there are tons of choices here... have fun getting lost in the subwoofer forum!!). You won't necessarily be able to accomplish this all at once, but I think that you'll be MUCH happier with the result.

Of course, the Studio's sound better. That's why they have different product lines... I also agree that if he wants or is willing to wait, that is the better route to go. That said, if he doesn't want to wait (or doesn't want to spend 3x his budget, going with the Monitors will not kill his sound and when he wants to listen to two channel, he still gets the sound he has always enjoyed. Compromise is not always a bad thing.

lpaxmember

11-14-07, 08:44 PM

CRH07xx

11-14-07, 09:32 PM

bigrock66

11-14-07, 09:43 PM

At least in my case, I am light user of even my stereo speakers. I am not interested in earth shattering sound with my small house and 2 small kids. I really want to stay in my budget.

> and would look into ID brands for a great subwoofer

Rob, what is "ID brands"?

Rob probably means subwoofer brands that specialize in that spedific market such as HSU, SVS, etc...

Since you live in Cali, you might want to check out HSU products (www.hsuresearch.com). They are truly amazing subs and they are located in Anaheim. They currently have a few good specials and you would save on shipping costs. You can go to the craigsub thread to get an idea on them or even the HSU owners thread. You can't get much better "oomph" for your dollar.

BR

bigrock66

11-14-07, 09:56 PM

New to Paradigm and I am looking forward to setting up my system. I just received my CC-590, Studio 20s (fronts), SA-15R-SMs (rears, will run them mono) and Seismic 12. They will be powered by the Denon 3808.

I really didn't want to do in ceiling rears, but unfortunately my space is limited and I didn't have many options. Does anyone on here have a similar system with the SA-15R-SMs? If you have the SA-15R-SMs, how do you like them? Are you running them in mono and if so, what are your impressions. Basically, just looking to see if people are happy in general with these speakers and how they pair up with the rest of the system. I did demo them, but just having second thoughts before installing I guess. Not sure what else I would do since the space is limited by design (not size).

Part of planning this system was that I will be moving into a bigger home with a dedicated theater space within 2 years. I wanted to get into a system now that could grow as the space does. I figured I could accomplish my goal with this setup as the starting point.

Anywho, any thoughts, comments or recommendations are welcome.

Thanks....

I have the mid-level AMS-150's in my house in 5 rooms hooked-up to my Russound system. I absolutely love them so I am positive that you will be very happy with these (for what you will use them).

As for placement, I have the same issue as you do, mine will need to be in-ceiling because I have a pool table going in behind my last row of seats.
This arragement is similar to my friend's house and quite frankly, most movies don't event take advantage of the rears so it will be nice to have them when you watch LOTR :D.

I'm sure you'll enjoy the great choices that you made.

saz25

11-14-07, 10:17 PM

Hi,
I am considering the S6 with the C3 center. I've owned Vandersteens 2Ci for over 15 years, along with the VCC1 center for about 3 years. I plan to sell the Vandersteens once I replace them.

I heard the S6 today at a local dealer and they sounded great.

I have an ADCOM 555 Amp that drives the fronts and a Denon 4802 that drives the other speakers (surrounds, center, sub).

How do you like the S6? Would the ADCOM work ok with it? I know its also 15+ years old.

I've never owned a Paradigm.
Comments, suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,
Steve

wishfullthinkng

11-15-07, 01:48 PM

saz25

11-15-07, 02:08 PM

Hi,
I haven't purchased new speakers in 15 years since I bought my Vandersteens. Does anyone recommend a good place (with good prices) to get Paradigm?
Thanks,
Steve

dleto

11-15-07, 02:15 PM

Hi,
I haven't purchased new speakers in 15 years since I bought my Vandersteens. Does anyone recommend a good place (with good prices) to get Paradigm?
Thanks,
Steve

They have a dealer locator on there website.
Not to many Internet dealers out there

http://www.paradigm.com/en/dealer_locator/paradigm.php

Babel_Fish

11-15-07, 04:05 PM

Yeah, so... what DVD/show are you watching there? You might want to list a warning like: NSFW...

YES!!! NSFW... uhg.. I was one post off.. I should always read two or three posts LATER before I open any link.. uhg... :(

Babel_Fish

11-15-07, 04:07 PM

I was wondering the same thing. I'm also thinking about getting it...

WOW that thing rocks!!!! I totally want that for xmas!!! :)

JOHNNYV.3

11-15-07, 06:29 PM

I've got one. It's a nice sign, looks neat. It is small though. About the size of a piece of paper. Bought mine for basically the freight (which alot of his stuff goes for)

It's fun and your not getting hurt at $ 20.00 or so.Looks like your the only fool who bought one:D Just kidding, thanx for the info, sounds pretty small, but might be cool to have once I get my theater built....

JOHNNYV.3

11-15-07, 06:33 PM

My dealer is closing out their subs, saying Paradigm just introduced a new line of subs, nothing on the Paradigm site? Anyone know anything about this?

oztech

11-15-07, 07:17 PM

My dealer is closing out their subs, saying Paradigm just introduced a new line of subs, nothing on the Paradigm site? Anyone know anything about this?

they showed some ported ones at cedia but not a lot of info was released
with them just a few pictures.

bigrock66

11-17-07, 12:32 AM

they showed some ported ones at cedia but not a lot of info was released
with them just a few pictures.

Here is a link on this...
http://www.audioholics.com/news/trade-show-coverage/2007-cedia-expo/paradigm-dsp-subwoofers

Nuthed

11-17-07, 09:03 AM

gunbunnysoulja

11-17-07, 09:09 AM

You can use Cinemas for surround if you absolutely need to but I would definitely use a Studio series CC.

As far as the sub, don't limit yourself to Paradigm's offerings.

I completely agree. Get the 590 and cheaper surrounds. Paradigm subs are decent, but theres much better at the same or less cost.

nyprimus4

11-18-07, 12:01 AM

Hi everybody. I'm looking for a set of speakers to go with my planned bed-room set up and would probably need what you would call "bookshelf" speakers.

Right now I have a Westinghouse 32" LCD HDTV(32w6), a Playstation 3 connected via HDMI, an Xbox 360 connected via VGA, and an antenna in splitter (one of the ends is used for regular standard cable and the other end is an HD antenna I bought at Radioshack). The TV also has audio outs (optical or red/white) to plug into external speakers.

I want to buy the Onkyo TX-SR304 receiver from www.shoponkyo.com refurbished for $119. It does the only things I need, 2 optical ins for the PS3 and 360 and red/white for the TV, all I need is Dolby Digital.

Now I come to the speakers. My dad is giving me some old stuff to work with, some center channel, 2 smallish speakers I can use as rears and an old subwoofer.

In his current set-up he has an Infocus 4805 projector, 112" screen, a nice Denon receiver and most importantly(among other things) Paradigm Monitor 7 v.3 floor-standing speakers that are sooooo nice. He recommended me if I was going to get any speakers Paradigm is the best you can get. I've been researching "bookshelf" Paradigm speakers but I've come to you guys to ask you if I'm looking for some Paradigm speakers to use in my bed-room set-up what model should I look for. I want to use these as my mains. My budget is $100-150, I don't care if they're a little older as long as they sound real good.

Thanks. Also for reference my bed-room is 13'3"x9'4" but smaller I guess because of furniture.

wHaCkY

11-18-07, 12:28 AM

nyprimus4

11-18-07, 12:36 AM

Specific model #'s to keep the price around $100?

051473

11-18-07, 01:16 AM

I don't think you cant get a new pair of any bookshelf Paradigms for $100 (maybe cinema 70's). I would search audiogon and ebay for some used minis. http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/fronts-monitor-minimonitor-model-2-4-1-14.paradigm

pottscb

11-18-07, 09:19 AM

I completely agree. Get the 590 and cheaper surrounds. Paradigm subs are decent, but theres much better at the same or less cost.

That would use the entire $1000 in his budget...go with the smaller CC-4XX and save yourself enough money to do surrounds and a sub.

nyprimus4

11-18-07, 12:33 PM

How are the Cinema 90's?

Remember this is a small bed-room and I am by no means an "audiophile" if they sound good for the average person, they are more then likely good enough for me.

I just want out of my new set-up some true surround sound. 5.1 Dolby Digital.

SGRSBSKIER

11-18-07, 01:26 PM

I am planing to get the Cinema series

Center ---------- 220
L/R ------------- 220
Surround -------- 110
Rear Surround --- 110

The room is 28 X 12.5 X 9 (LxWxH)

Rear Surrounds are at the back of the wall around 13 feet away.

I am now thinking about getting 90's for the Surrounds but I have never had dipoles and I am not sure if I will like it over directs, but they are cheaper and will be pretty close as they should not be more than 3ft behind and with the stands and even sitting directly in the middle of them it will be no more than 6ft on either side.

The guy selling them suggested the 90's and I was all set for getting the 110's. Does anybody have any suggestions on what I should do?

tcat

11-18-07, 05:13 PM

Edllguy

11-18-07, 09:21 PM

bigrock66

11-19-07, 11:01 AM

I have a "starter" Paradigm set-up. 90's LR, 110 C, PDR-8 Sub, 70's surround. Used 95% HT/HDTV. I am not real happy with dialog on most TV shows (CSI, Heros, etc...), almost irritating at times and in many cases TV speakers sound better. The center is in the drawer and has 7.75"H, 26"w, any depth availble. Would like to keep L&R "small", or "wife friendly". Panny XR57, SA8300; about 12' from chair to TV; large room opens up to right; surrounds on tables to left and right of chair. I'm thinking of moving the LR to the surround location, and upgrading LRC. I listen at "normal" TV volume. Suggestions?

Tom,

for the center, it may be that the center is causing "cabinet noise" which would make it very annoying. have you tried placing the speaker as close as possble to the front grill and also placing acoustic insulation such as Owens Corning 73? Try different methods until the cabinet noise is contained. Once you are confident that this has been handled and your are still not happy with the center, you might want to try going to a different model. Depending on your budget, you could go with CC-190 (290 is physically too big) or with a nice upgrade which would be using 3 Millenia 20's. Women like the look of Millenia's... :D

Hope it helps!

tcat

11-19-07, 11:16 AM

bigrock66

11-19-07, 12:53 PM

Thanks! I had it placed under the Plasma for a while, doesn't sound any different in the drawer. I have the grill off and it's almost up against the cloth of the drawer, so I don't think it's a cabinet issue. You suggest a CC-190, is it better (more mellow) than a 220 or 330? Would the Mini-Monitors and C-190 be a huge improvement? I am eying the Millenia 20's!

It's hard to believe my TV speakers (50PX600U) sound better on many SD stations, they're just more mellow and less pitchy.

I didn't hear the c-110 so I can't say if the cc-190 will be sound more controlled in that regard. That said, I have heard from many reliable sources that the Cinema's did not sound that good. To be wife-friendly, you might want to tuck the center in your cabinet but if the Force is strong with you and you don't fear the consequences, I am sure that you will like the cc-290 much better but it won't fit in your cabinet and it's not that pretty compared to the Milenia's...

You should go to your dealer with your c-110 and compare the sound the ones mentioned above. You might even want to compare it to another 110 to see if it is in fact working well...

Almost forgot, yes, going to the Mini's with the cc-290 will be a huge improvement.

BR

AVKIK

11-19-07, 07:43 PM

Hi there paradigm owners, I was wondering if someone can tell me if there is a difference in sound between the studio 100's and the 60's other than bass. I just sold my polk audio RTI 10's to a friend, So I plan on upgrading to the studio 100's or 60's. I auditioned the studio 100's but not the 60's, so I don't know if they sound the same or not. The one thing I noticed with the polks is they lacked in the midrange, so the mids are important to me. Thanks in advance.

oztech

11-19-07, 08:38 PM

Megasabin

11-19-07, 09:00 PM

I am considering purchasing a pair of Paradigm Atom Monitors. I mainly use my tv for gaming and secondly for movies. Are there any other people out here who use there TV for gaming that have these and can tell me how they perform in relation to gaming?

Thanks

MacDaddy57

11-19-07, 10:51 PM

I'm buying my first home theater system and am wondering how the Axiom speakers I mentioned above compare to the Paradigm Cinemas? I plan to use Axioms with a Denon 3808ci and a HSU STF-2 subwoofer for a den on the smaller side. I listened to some Paradigm Cinema 330s which I liked but I've also read good things about the Axioms on the Internet. I'm seriously considering buying the Axiom speakers figuring that I can get more bang for my buck by buying direct but I'm a little wary about buying a speaker I've never listened to from a manufacturer in another country. What does everyone here think? Are the Axioms a safe bet or would I be better off buying the Paradigms from a local dealer?

Thanks.

expresso712

11-19-07, 10:54 PM

bigrock66

11-20-07, 12:29 AM

hi - i am just starting to get back into the audio end
and cant pick a speaker for my fronts - i have a SR7002 coming in a few weeks - i have a small set of Klipsch KG3 which i love - so i been with Klipsch only - but want to try something different - i cant decide what would give me good or great SQ for music - first - movies second -

i was looking at the 683's - love the look and i am sure the sound is there - now i see paradigm Mon. 11 which look very close and i belieave they are good sounding also

or maybe the Klipsch RF 83 - but cant decide any more -

any ideas how the paradigm sound compared to the Klipsch - i need good tight bass -

i may be seating about 6 from the fronts at most -

also i any links to online dealers who carry them -

thanks

I can't comment on the Bowers & Wilkins but I did listen to the Klipsch RF83's (close friend has them). I decide ot go with the new M11's v.5 and don't regret it. The 11's are very musical but can also pack a very controlled punch when needed. My first row of seats is at 9 feet and people are blown away when they hear them for both music and movies. Paradigm has no on-line authorized dealers and quite frankly I would not recommend anyone but shippers that are used to shipping that kind of material be used. The M11's are well packaged as long as they are standing vertical. I'd be very concerned about UPS delivering them ot my door... You will really need to go out and audition all of these because at the end of the day, it's all about what you like... Do yourself a favor and don't go back to Klipsch until you've heard the Paradigms (also listen to the Millenias and Studios) :D.

BR

expresso712

11-20-07, 11:49 AM

I can't comment on the Bowers & Wilkins but I did listen to the Klipsch RF83's (close friend has them). I decide ot go with the new M11's v.5 and don't regret it. The 11's are very musical but can also pack a very controlled punch when needed. My first row of seats is at 9 feet and people are blown away when they hear them for both music and movies. Paradigm has no on-line authorized dealers and quite frankly I would not recommend anyone but shippers that are used to shipping that kind of material be used. The M11's are well packaged as long as they are standing vertical. I'd be very concerned about UPS delivering them ot my door... You will really need to go out and audition all of these because at the end of the day, it's all about what you like... Do yourself a favor and don't go back to Klipsch until you've heard the Paradigms (also listen to the Millenias and Studios) :D.

BR

you make the Klipsch sound bad - i cant seem to find places that carry those other brands so i can listen to them first - i am looking at the B&W if i can find them and the paradigm again if i can find them in a place to hear them - i wont make any purchase with out listening to them - so what was your impression with the Klipsch FR83 ?

thanks

bigrock66

11-20-07, 12:04 PM

you make the Klipsch sound bad - i cant seem to find places that carry those other brands so i can listen to them first - i am looking at the B&W if i can find them and the paradigm again if i can find them in a place to hear them - i wont make any purchase with out listening to them - so what was your impression with the Klipsch FR83 ?

thanks

The Klipsch 83's aren't bad at all. In fact, I do like them. It's all a matter of taste. I listen to a lot of 2.0 music and I find that the M11's are more musical and sound a tad "clearer". I also really like the entire "acoutrement" that Paradigm offers with this line (ADP-390 surrounds and CC-390 center). Did you try going to www.paradigm.com ? The site should be able to provide a local vendor... As for the B&W's, I have not heard them.

Hope it helps.

BR

expresso712

11-20-07, 12:10 PM

The Klipsch 83's aren't bad at all. In fact, I do like them. It's all a matter of taste. I listen to a lot of 2.0 music and I find that the M11's are more musical and sound a tad "clearer". I also really like the entire "acoutrement" that Paradigm offers with this line (ADP-390 surrounds and CC-390 center). Did you try going to www.paradigm.com ? The site should be able to provide a local vendor... As for the B&W's, I have not heard them.

Hope it helps.

BR

thanks - i been to the site - i think i printed out a few vendors i have to call - most dont have them there to listen too - sort of making it hard to listen to different speakers - even B&W same thing - they carry them but not the model i want to hear in stock etc. - i will try the site again and double check -

thanks -

tcat

11-20-07, 03:22 PM

I listened to some Paradigms at a local store today. Not set up very well, had Millenium 20's without a center out on the floor, and other "smaller" stuff in the listening room. Also had no cable input, only DVD's. I was really wanting to hear how cable sounded. Anyway, I was surprized how well the Atoms sound compared to the Mini-Monitors. I listened to both with a C170 and C190 center. I found the C170 more "mellow", and C190a little harsher, although the C190 sounds better with loud music. Any of them sounded like a good upgrade to my C110 and 90's. Since this is for 95% HDTV/DVD's I think the Atoms and C-170 might do the trick. The Mini-Monitors did sound slight better, but not sure if they're worth the extra cash.

Think I'll go find a DVD that sounds better on my Plamsa than though my 5.1 system and take that in to try (some chick flick, mostly dialog). I want to be sure dialog isn't harsh in a fairly bright room. He suggested I replace my XR-57 with a Yamaha receiver to help with brightness.

AVKIK

11-20-07, 08:46 PM

oztech

11-20-07, 10:50 PM

oztech, thank you very much for your reply. So do you think the 100's are good enough to justify the extra $600 or so? Also I was Just wondering if you have the studio 100's? Also I only have a denon 4802R reciever which is 125w x7 do you think it will be enough power for the 100's? thank you.

100v3 570 and 20's powered by an integra 10.5 i think the denon would be
fine unless its in a very large room playing at high db's then an external amp
may come in to play.

fritz1

11-21-07, 10:59 AM

oztech

11-21-07, 12:06 PM

Hello I have been absent from this forum for a while, but I am thinking of upgrading some.

for my mains I have the studio 100s and CC570 all v3, I would like to add an amp I now have a NAD T773 receiver 110x7, can I gain any thing by using it as a pre and what amp will be a good neutral sounding and sufficient to drive them? or is there a need to upgrade period

i would at least give it a try as is but depending on what budget you give
for the amp and how many channels but most of the time an amp will give
you more headroom especially if its played loud in a large room.

Luap

11-21-07, 02:41 PM

The Studio 100 are 3-way and the Studio 60 are 2 1/2 way, so the midrange should theoretically be a little more clear on the 100s when there is bass in the music, but otherwise the midrange should sound pretty similar. Neither speaker produces low bass, so you'll want a subwoofer if you listen to any music with low bass. I do like the mids and highs on the Studio 60s, but have only heard the 100s at a dealer... thought they were better than a slightly more expensive pair of B&W speakers, so a good deal for the price.

Edllguy

11-21-07, 04:04 PM

bigrock66

11-21-07, 05:35 PM

Anyone? Does anyone have these 330's etc.

E,

I can't comment much on the 330's because I haven't heard them but you obviously know that you will need a sub that will cross-over at 100Hz since these 330's will only go down to 80Hz. Is there a reason why your are eyeing the Cinema's over the Monitor's? Is it aesthetics? You might want to listen to the Mini's w/ cc-290 and ADP-190's.

As far as the sub, if you're willing to spend the money for an Ultracube, you might want to head over to SonicBoom (www.sonicboomaudio.com) in Markham to pick up a great SVS sub (PB12-NSD). You could also go for a great deal at www.electronicsforless.ca and grab one of the few HSU VTF3 Mk2 remaining (great deal) :D

Hope it helps!

BR

fritz1

11-21-07, 09:41 PM

i would at least give it a try as is but depending on what budget you give
for the amp and how many channels but most of the time an amp will give
you more headroom especially if its played loud in a large room.

I would say around 2000 but flexible if need be

saz25

11-22-07, 08:53 AM

Hi,
I am about to replace my 15 year old Vandersteens with Paradigm S6 fronts and C3 center. I still have my Adcom GFA-555 which will drive the S6 until I decide on a new amp.

For those of you who have the S6, what do you use as an amp to drive them? I'm looking possibly in the $1000-$2000 category.

Also, since I have the Denon 4802 AV receiver which drives my center and surrounds, I was thinking of staying with a 2 channel amp. The Paradigm dealer strongly suggested I go with a 5 channel amp, so the C3 and S6 would be driven by the same amp. I just wanted to get an opinion from this group.
Thanks in advance,
Steve

oztech

11-22-07, 11:00 AM

see if the dealer will loan you one if he is right he stands to gain you will buy the amp.
size of the room and where the sub is crossed over and how loud you listen to it will
be determining factors.but if you got the budget and room i would get a 5 channel amp
just because the new pre-pros are getting very affordable with all the bells and whistles.

Edllguy

11-22-07, 12:32 PM

E,

I can't comment much on the 330's because I haven't heard them but you obviously know that you will need a sub that will cross-over at 100Hz since these 330's will only go down to 80Hz. Is there a reason why your are eyeing the Cinema's over the Monitor's? Is it aesthetics? You might want to listen to the Mini's w/ cc-290 and ADP-190's.

As far as the sub, if you're willing to spend the money for an Ultracube, you might want to head over to SonicBoom (www.sonicboomaudio.com) in Markham to pick up a great SVS sub (PB12-NSD). You could also go for a great deal at www.electronicsforless.ca and grab one of the few HSU VTF3 Mk2 remaining (great deal) :D

Hope it helps!

BR

Thank you bigrock66 for responding. I'm kind of a newbie at speakers, moving up from my current Bose system. So this inexperience plays into my speaker choices. Are you suggesting that the ATOM MONITOR speakers (LCR) will give me better sound then the 330's? I'm trying to stay within a $2000.00-$2500.00 budget for my speakers and sub. Aesthetics are not that important if I can realize a better quality speaker for a reasonalbe price. I would like to mention though that the rear channel speakers (slightly elevated) are right beside the end seats of my 3-4 seat theater with no flexibility, however, front speakers will have more space (as per layout of my room).

Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks bigrock66

bigc_2k3

11-22-07, 01:36 PM

Any owners of the Paradigm Cinema 330 home theater speaker system, comprising Cinema 330 satellites, Cinema ADP surrounds, and Ultracube subwoofer. What are your experiences?

I have a small room (10W by 13L by 9H) that I want to place these in. Seats are against wall so the Cinema ADP surrounds are fine I feel? There is a possibility that when I move I will have maybe double or more space for room size. Any problems then for these type of speakers/subwoofer.

These speakers will be matched with a Pioneer Elite receiver. And lastly will be purchased in the Toronto region.

Thanks. Any help will be appreciated.
I actually have the cinema series (without a sub currently) in a room that is 10w by 18w by 9h. went with the 330's for L/C/R and cinema ADPs for surround. great setup as far as i'm concerned, obviously i'm missing the low end right now without a sub, but they more than fill the room for movies, and for two channel sound they can certainly be heard throughout the entire house (2300sq ft detached place)

with that pioneer elite you will most likely be very happy especially if you can great a greal deal on price. with stands for all speakers i was under $1300 (purchased in toronto area last year)

bigrock66

11-22-07, 02:46 PM

Thank you bigrock66 for responding. I'm kind of a newbie at speakers, moving up from my current Bose system. So this inexperience plays into my speaker choices. Are you suggesting that the ATOM MONITOR speakers (LCR) will give me better sound then the 330's? I'm trying to stay within a $2000.00-$2500.00 budget for my speakers and sub. Aesthetics are not that important if I can realize a better quality speaker for a reasonalbe price. I would like to mention though that the rear channel speakers (slightly elevated) are right beside the end seats of my 3-4 seat theater with no flexibility, however, front speakers will have more space (as per layout of my room).

Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks bigrock66

E,

Like I said, I cannot comment on the Cinema's. If your budget is 2000-2500, this is what you can probably get:

Fronts: Titan Monitor
Centre: CC-290
ADP-190's
This will come out to about 1200$ at the dealer (about 1350 msrp)
With this, I would add one of the subs I suggested yesterday. This would run you up at about 2000$. This leaves room for 3 stands.

The system you had suggested would run you up to about the same. Maybe a bit less.

If you want to up the ante a bit to listen to 2.0 music, you can go with M7's (floorstanding). The fact that these are floorstanding, will pretty much offset most of the cost of 2 stands (needed for the Titans). Finally, for about 1600$, you could change the Titans (or 7's) and get the M9's. This would bring you to the limit of your budget.

If you do step up to the M9's, these speakers are even more sensitive thus easier to drive. This will give your receiver a little breathing room.

I'm no expert but personally, with your budget, I would go for the M9's, CC-290 and APD-190 with either the HSU or the SVS.

It's not about filling the room that matters, it's how well you fill it... This WILL do the job and you will be happy for years to come!

Please keep us posted on your visit to the dealer and your comments.

BR

nsguy

11-23-07, 09:31 AM

Hi everyone, I need some advice...and good advice :) I am debating wether or notO should be getting Paradigm speakers or other brand such as PSB or Monitor Audio. I am impressed by the reviews that Paradigm has been recieving and did alot of reading on them. I am torn between two series, the monitor (7) or the studio (S60) with its matching rears and centre. I think I might hold out on the sub and getting something else (some have suggested sonicboom as a place to look). Anyway, there appears to be a HUGE price jump between these two series and I am wondering if the added sound quality is as noticeable as the price jump? I would gladly accept any input. Thanks...

Alkaizer

11-23-07, 01:37 PM

hello
i would like to know which system is the best for Onkyo 805 ( its 130wpc )

i like to have a bookshelf system

monitor atom,mini,titan or studio 20,40?

i will use it for gaming and blu-ray movies:)

oh and btw i dont want to use any amp just the AVR

D53

11-23-07, 04:28 PM

psyduck103

11-23-07, 04:39 PM

I did something really stupid and fried the tweeters in both of my S8s.I want to commend both Paradigm and my local dealer Clark Music.Even though it was without question my fault.They replaced both G-Pal tweeters sending the replacement drivers next day air!!All I can say is thank God I bought them from an authorized dealer.

Eric Carroll

11-23-07, 06:04 PM

I did something really stupid and fried the tweeters in both of my S8s

Could you comment on how you managed to do that? I would like to avoid that...

Logic_BomB

11-23-07, 06:11 PM

Could you comment on how you managed to do that? I would like to avoid that...

Use a receiver or amps with appropriate power ratings and don't blast your speakers so loud that the block next to you is curious about what's going on. That should save you almost everytime.

psyduck103

11-23-07, 08:42 PM

Mr.Stupid here. I use two preamps in my system.One is an Outlaw 990 for video.The other is a Krell .For stereo the Krell is used and the S8s are left and right speakers.For video the 990 is used and the center channel runs through the Krell and the S8s are center channel.I can monitor the 990 through the Krell or I can monitor the Krell through the 990.If I set the selector switches in a very special (STUPID) way they will monitor each other.This is where the smoke comes in.Electrical feedback amped by a pair modified Adcom gfa 565s good for over 500wpc@ 8 ohms. You may be wondering why I have the system set up this way.The 990 is a good stereo preamp but it is not anywhere near the Krell.I hope I learned my lesson. When this happened I felt like I shot my best friend in a hunting accident.

Heavywait

11-23-07, 09:01 PM

PsychDuck,I feel your pain.I have had a moment or two like that myself.But if I could go back in time and do it over again I would rather shoot my frined hunting than fry my gear again.

wHaCkY

11-23-07, 09:15 PM

My wife and I are installing a 7.1 sound system for a new hdtv. We would also like a speaker setup which prodeces good audio quality for our CDs. We will go with rounds speakers in an all-ceiling installation due to their clean look, even though it will not sound good as other types of speakers. Our installer recommended CS-60Rs for side and rear speakers and CD-60R-30s for our front left, center, and right speakers. I asked him what the next step up was, and he stated the CS 80-Rs. I asked him if he thought the extra cost was worth stepping up for, but he is hesitant to answer. I'd appreciate some insight on this question. Also, with a Paradigm (round speakers) in-ceiling installation, what speakers represent the price-performance sweetspot? FWIW, we listen to all kinds of music.

All insights appreciated.

The step up would be the AMS series in wall/in ceiling speakers. I'm using these for my surrounds and rear surrounds. I believe they contain a little better materials for cone construction and probably a little more robust power capability, but I'm not sure on that. I think they run about a hundred more per speaker than the equivalent CS series speaker. Paradigm's website can show you the stats on both.

Are they worth the extra jing is probably subjective. I've got Monitor 9's and a CC-390 up front so I needed a little more oomph in my surrounds to stack up. Using all the same series will probably be just fine. Just put in a good sub or two to beef up the in ceiling's low end.

Eric Carroll

11-24-07, 11:18 AM

PsychDuck,

Wow that's a really complex way to kill your speakers - you definately win an award of some kind on that one. I am thinking of how to put preamps in, so I will definately avoid that topology! Thanks for the input.

Dan Hitchman

11-24-07, 03:00 PM

oztech

11-24-07, 06:00 PM

since anything other than msrp is a forum violation i will say that my dealer gave
me a great deal when i bought the studio's minus the sub.they had a price increase
someone here posted it earlier.

Dan Hitchman

11-24-07, 06:41 PM

since anything other than msrp is a forum violation i will say that my dealer gave
me a great deal when i bought the studio's minus the sub.they had a price increase
someone here posted it earlier.

All I'm looking for is percentages. And not who got what deal where. Nothing more.

DrPainMD

11-24-07, 07:27 PM

What is the actual U.S. retail price for the Studio v.4 model line? Thanks! I always like to be armed with the facts so I know the retailer isn't trying to pull a fast one.

What kind of deals have people been able to get from their Paradigm dealers? I want to add a CC-690 v.4 center for my Studio 100's.

Dan

The Studio v.4 Lineup:

Studio 20 – 2-driver 2-way bookshelf: 7˝ bass/mid, 1˝ G-PAL; $899/pr

Studio 40 – 3-driver 2.5-way bookshelf: 7˝ bass, 7˝ mid/bass, 1˝ G-PAL; $1,399/pr

Studio 60 – 3-driver 2.5-way floorstanding: 7˝ bass, 7˝ mid/bass, 1˝ G-PAL; $1,799/pr

Studio 100 – 5-driver 3-way floorstanding: 3 x 7˝ bass, 7˝ mid, 1˝ G-PAL; $2,499/pr

CC-590 – 4-driver 3-way center: 2 x 7˝ bass, 4.5˝ mid, 1˝ G-PAL; $899/ea

New Model! CC-690 – 6-driver 3.5-way center: 2 x 7˝ bass, 2 x 7˝ mid/bass, 4.5˝ mid, 1˝ G-PAL; $1,199/ea

New Model! Eclipse – 4-driver 3-way on-wall: 2 x 7˝ bass, 4.5˝ mid/bass, 1˝ G-PAL; $999/ea

New Model! Eclipse C – 4-driver 3-way on-wall: 2 x 7˝ bass, 4.5˝ mid/bass, 1˝ G-PAL; $999/ea

Studio ADP-590 – 5-driver 3-way surround: 7˝ bass, 2 x 4.5˝ mid/bass, 2 x 1˝ G-PAL; $599/ea

oztech

11-24-07, 09:42 PM

All I'm looking for is percentages. And not who got what deal where. Nothing more.

20%

Super Dave

11-25-07, 09:23 AM

I am currently looking to replace older Paradigms and would like to hear reviews of the difference between a Monitor 11 and Studio 60s. I have a 550w sub. Center with the Monitor would be the 290, the 390 is just to darn big to fit anywhere, same with the Studio, have to get the 590 so it would fit below the TV. They seem to be a few hundred apart, so that isn't the issue.

snowboarder

11-25-07, 01:58 PM

What do you guys think about mixing different Reference lines together?
I have a Millenia setup which is absolutely amazing - 300s front, 30 center
and 200s surround. I like my setup so much I'm starting to think
about going 7.1. Would it be awful to buy a pair of S6 or S8 for my fronts,
possibly upgrade my center to C3 and move Millenia 300 to surround
and 200 to back surround? I listen to SACD multichannel music a lot
and my actual setup works great for that - not a huge difference
between Millenia 300 and 200 so I have a nice musical space, but with
S6 or S8 - wouldn't that front overwhelm my 300s too much?
Or should I just get another pair of 300s to compliment my 5.1?
I do listen to stereo music, but it's not my priority. Movies and SACD are.
Would I get an improvement in (already great) movie experience
going to Signature front and center? What do you think?

oztech

11-25-07, 02:44 PM

Dan Hitchman

11-25-07, 06:39 PM

They ARE a noticeable sound improvement. You'll need some greenbacks, but the S8's are quite good as is the top of the line center. S6 or S8's... doesn't matter as long as you go with the C5 center. It's just that much better.

Some people like the Revel Performa lineup too, but it all comes down to personal taste (I have Paradigm Studios because I couldn't afford the Sigs) and you do already have Paradigm speakers. What sounds accurate to you.

Some people gush over Rocket speakers, but then I heard them for myself. I came to a different conclusion.

Dan

Dan Hitchman

11-25-07, 07:10 PM

I was thinking of later on getting a Parasound Halo A21 stereo amp to drive my Studio 100v.4 towers. It's rated at 250 watts/channel @ 8 ohms.

Anyone think this is too much power for the 100's and it would cause problems? I was thinking that if later on down the road I picked up even more power hungry speakers I'd be set (no need to buy yet another amp), and it's not as if I will be driving the towers to ear splitting levels.

Thoughts?

Dan

wHaCkY

11-25-07, 08:41 PM

wHaCkY

11-25-07, 08:46 PM

I was thinking of later on getting a Paradigm Halo A21 stereo amp to drive my Studio 100v.4 towers. It's rated at 250 watts/channel @ 8 ohms.

Anyone think this is too much power for the 100's and it would cause problems? I was thinking that if later on down the road I picked up even more power hungry speakers I'd be set (no need to buy yet another amp), and it's not as if I will be driving the towers to ear splitting levels.

Thoughts?

Dan

I say go for the extra power!

This forum is kind of like talking about sports cars...
Should I get the Honda S2000 or the Porsche GT?

Hmmm... Go for the Porsche, they cost a little more, but the performance is so much better!

051473

11-26-07, 12:21 AM

cineprep

11-26-07, 06:59 AM

I am torn between two series, the monitor (7) or the studio (S60) with its matching rears and centre.

After years of being very happy with my M7's I decided to retire them and move up the ladder. I got a pair of S60's and I am thrilled with them. I disagree with those who say the difference between the two models is small. The depth of the imaging on the S60's is awesome.

D53

11-26-07, 08:51 AM

Thanks for the reply, Whacky.

nsguy

11-26-07, 03:16 PM

cineprep.....thanks for reply! much appreciated.

tryguy

11-26-07, 04:35 PM

wHaCkY

11-26-07, 10:50 PM

Hi all,

I have my Studio 20's, CC-570 and ADP-170's (all v.3) hooked up to my Onkyo 605. I was reading recently that I really should have this setup hooked up to an amp as well. My listening is almost exclusively home theatre, so would I benefit that much from an amp? If I was to upgrade my AVR to the 805 would that negate the need for an amp?

As well, my ADP-170's seem to keep up with the rest of the setup even though that does not seem logical. Am I missing something in the surrounds that I just haven't heard yet, or is there no real reason to upgrade the 170's?

Thanks for any advice you may have.

Unless you don't like the sound coming from the 170's why change?

Most movies don't use much of the surround channels anyways, so you probably are not missing anything. Unless of course you tend to listen to surround audio recordings much, then you may want to invest in small bookshelves rather than the dipole/bipole speakers.

oztech

11-26-07, 11:04 PM

something to keep in mind the hd-dvd and blu-ray will have better sound tracks on some of the newer movies with dts-master and dolby tru-hd so it could put more dynamics
into the surroud channels.

drumminj

11-26-07, 11:48 PM

Hey all. I've read through the thread (have spent way too much time on here!), and while there are a few mentions of what receivers people are using with their Paradigms, I'm curious of specific suggestions. I have a pair of Monitor 9v5's and a CC-290 on the way. I'm leaning towards the HK 645 as a receiver (only $100 more than the 247, more power, and lacking most of the issues present in the 247 from what I've read). However, from what I've read the HK's are traditionally "warm" sounding, and from my demoing of the Monitor 9s, they're already quite full-sounding in the midrange and vocals (even a little boomy at times), so I wonder if a Yamaha (something more neutral/bright) might be a better pairing? Ultimately I'd like a slightly warm/laid-back sound, but don't want to end up with things sounding like a wet blanket had been draped over the speakers (as I've seen one post on these forums describe the HK+monitor pairing). The shop I demoed the speakers at was running Pioneer Elite receivers.

I know in the end it's all up to individual tastes, and I may just end up going out and buying an HK and a Yamaha from local big box retailers and listening to them side to side, but am curious of other's experiences and opinions. Honestly I've not previously owned a proper HT/stereo setup and thus don't know how big the variations in sound from different receivers/amps can be.

If it's relevant, I imagine my use will be 60/40 music/HT.

Thanks.

J

bigrock66

11-27-07, 12:08 AM

drumminj

11-27-07, 12:25 AM

I have M11's w/ cc-390 and I plan to go with Sherwood-Newcastle R-972. The 972 isnt out 'til March though. I had a chance to audition my speakers with the R-871 and R-965. I was really blown away. A lot of the Paradim owners tend to have the Denon's 3800's and 2800's. I haven't heard them with a Yam.

BR

Thanks for the response. I suppose that I should clarify that I'm looking to spend in the $500-600 range if possible. If I can spend less (and not really notice the difference), I'd be happy to do that too :)

J

tryguy

11-27-07, 03:18 PM

Unless you don't like the sound coming from the 170's why change?

Most movies don't use much of the surround channels anyways, so you probably are not missing anything. Unless of course you tend to listen to surround audio recordings much, then you may want to invest in small bookshelves rather than the dipole/bipole speakers.

You make sense and this reinforces what I felt in the first place. Thanks again!

D53

11-28-07, 10:44 AM

To anwer my own question in case others are interested, I visited a local home theater store and listened to the CS-60Rs and the AMS 150R-30s. The difference between them was quite noticeable and I now think the AMS 150Rs represent the price-performance sweetspot for in-ceiling Paradigm speakers. I do not think we would be happy with the CS series. Therefore, I think the AMS series is worth the extra money and we will go with the AMS speakers.

I wonder how they compare to their competition...

My wife and I are installing a 7.1 sound system for a new hdtv. We would also like a speaker setup which prodeces good audio quality for our CDs. We will go with rounds speakers in an all-ceiling installation due to their clean look, even though it will not sound good as other types of speakers. Our installer recommended CS-60Rs for side and rear speakers and CD-60R-30s for our front left, center, and right speakers. I asked him what the next step up was, and he stated the CS 80-Rs. I asked him if he thought the extra cost was worth stepping up for, but he is hesitant to answer. I'd appreciate some insight on this question. Also, with a Paradigm (round speakers) in-ceiling installation, what speakers represent the price-performance sweetspot? FWIW, we listen to all kinds of music.

All insights appreciated.

bigrock66

11-28-07, 11:12 AM

Thanks for the response. I suppose that I should clarify that I'm looking to spend in the $500-600 range if possible. If I can spend less (and not really notice the difference), I'd be happy to do that too :)

J

I think that the Onkyo 605 or 705 might work for you... I would personally prefer the HK AVR-347. These are well within your budget.

Hope it helps!

BR

fastgt79

11-28-07, 11:37 AM

thrand1

11-28-07, 01:41 PM

Is Paradigm still on the first version for the cinema 330? I was thinking of getting these, but I know Paradigm is known for adding high version models after the speaker matures that offer better performance and was wondering if this is the case for the 330. In addition, I want to use inceiling speakers for the sides and surrounds, what paradigm inceiling speakers offer the best timbre match with the cinema series? I have heard the cinema 330's and think they sound good, however has anyone compared them to over flat panel speakers, such as Atlantic technology FS-3200 or Klipsch version?

I think they are on version 3 of the Cinemas. As I recall too, the Cinemas were released in early 2006, reviewed by several mags shortly after that. I'm not sure what the product cycle is like for Paradigm to update them, so I wouldn't know if they had a new cycle coming out soon or not. Here are a few links:

This site has them listed as v.3 (search for Paradigm to jump to their section): http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html

Home Theater Magazine review 8/06: http://www.hometheatermag.com/completesystems/806system/

Sound and Vision review 4/06:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/1337/paradigm-cinema-330-home-theater-speaker-system.html

- Tyler

drew138

11-28-07, 06:48 PM

Does anyone own or know of a decent review of the Millenia 20 Trio.

http://www.paradigm.com/en/reference...-3-20.paradigm

Thinking of this for music and movies. Thoughts.

Thanks!

Edllguy

11-28-07, 09:34 PM

E,

Like I said, I cannot comment on the Cinema's. If your budget is 2000-2500, this is what you can probably get:

Fronts: Titan Monitor
Centre: CC-290
ADP-190's
This will come out to about 1200$ at the dealer (about 1350 msrp)
With this, I would add one of the subs I suggested yesterday. This would run you up at about 2000$. This leaves room for 3 stands.

The system you had suggested would run you up to about the same. Maybe a bit less.

If you want to up the ante a bit to listen to 2.0 music, you can go with M7's (floorstanding). The fact that these are floorstanding, will pretty much offset most of the cost of 2 stands (needed for the Titans). Finally, for about 1600$, you could change the Titans (or 7's) and get the M9's. This would bring you to the limit of your budget.

If you do step up to the M9's, these speakers are even more sensitive thus easier to drive. This will give your receiver a little breathing room.

I'm no expert but personally, with your budget, I would go for the M9's, CC-290 and APD-190 with either the HSU or the SVS.

It's not about filling the room that matters, it's how well you fill it... This WILL do the job and you will be happy for years to come!

Please keep us posted on your visit to the dealer and your comments.

BR

Well I carefully obsorbed and analyzed your recommendations bigrock66. I did go to the dealer and listened to the M7's. They had very very good sound. However, when I auditioned the M9's, I was simply amazed at how great these speakers sounded. In fact I was so amazed at the depth and detail of the M9's that it made me wonder how just a little size upgrade (M7 to M9) can make a big difference in sound quality. Just like you said, I want to be happy for years to come and I just want to do it right the first time and not regret my decision wishing I had upsized earlier.

So here are my choices based on your recommendations:

Fronts: M9's
Centre: CC-290
Surrounds: ADP-190's
Sub: Still in question but getting closer

However, I have a couple of questions:

1. Being that my current room size is small (10 Wide,12 Long,7 High), will having these large speakers affect the sound in any negative way? My ultimate intentions will be that in the near future these speakers will be used in a much larger room (maybe double or more in size) then my current room environment.

2. I intend to match these speakers with a Pioneer Elite 94 receiver. Good match? I know lots of people on this Paradigm thread match with Denon receivers, however, for me its either Yamaha or Pioneer Elite.

3. Called Paradigm in Mississauga. They said, they will not adjust MSRP even though the Cnd dollar is stronger and the speakers are made in Canada. They also said new prices are announced every September for each product calendar year. Dealer displayd MSRP prices. What's realistic in my expectations when negotiating?

Thanks

Any further advice or direction welcomed. :)

Edllguy

11-29-07, 12:00 PM

Bump

dleto

11-29-07, 01:14 PM

Well I carefully obsorbed and analyzed your recommendations bigrock66. I did go to the dealer and listened to the M7's. They had very very good sound. However, when I auditioned the M9's, I was simply amazed at how great these speakers sounded. In fact I was so amazed at the depth and detail of the M9's that it made me wonder how just a little size upgrade (M7 to M9) can make a big difference in sound quality. Just like you said, I want to be happy for years to come and I just want to do it right the first time and not regret my decision wishing I had upsized earlier.

So here are my choices based on your recommendations:

Fronts: M9's
Centre: CC-290
Surrounds: ADP-190's
Sub: Still in question but getting closer

However, I have a couple of questions:

1. Being that my current room size is small (10 Wide,12 Long,7 High), will having these large speakers affect the sound in any negative way? My ultimate intentions will be that in the near future these speakers will be used in a much larger room (maybe double or more in size) then my current room environment.

2. I intend to match these speakers with a Pioneer Elite 94 receiver. Good match? I know lots of people on this Paradigm thread match with Denon receivers, however, for me its either Yamaha or Pioneer Elite.

3. Called Paradigm in Mississauga. They said, they will not adjust MSRP even though the Cnd dollar is stronger and the speakers are made in Canada. They also said new prices are announced every September for each product calendar year. Dealer displayd MSRP prices. What's realistic in my expectations when negotiating?

Thanks

Any further advice or direction welcomed. :)

Edllguy,
I’m no expert but I’ll give my 2cents.
My room is 12x18x8 and I got Studio 100, CC690, 4-FXi3 surrounds and MiniVee Sub.
I just upgraded from Polk RTi10 and CSi5 center and feel the sound quality is better and notice that I don’t have to turn the volume up as loud to get room filling sound.
I don’t think either receiver will do you wrong, I’m using an Integra 8.8.
Price: 10 to 20 % off sticker is about right.
Also ask to demo in your house, that’s what I did. The dealer told me if I don’t like them bring them back and try another set.

AVKIK

11-29-07, 03:27 PM

Edllguy

11-29-07, 03:49 PM

Thanks dleto for your feedback. My biggest concern is having large speakers in a small room, however, based on your feedback that isn't a major concern. So its safe to assume that large speakers in a small room (being large front speakers being close to primary seating) will not conflict or result in any sound abnormalities to the listener, whereas, small speakers in a very large room is acceptable up to a certain point. That point being when small speakers are being pushed extremely hard with high volume levels resulting in speaker distortion. Have I got it right?

Any other feedback? Thanks

dleto

11-29-07, 03:54 PM

Hi delto, I to had the polk Rti10's but sold them three weeks ago to a friend. How much of a difference did you notice with the studio 100's. I am very intrested in them and plan on auditioning them this sat. Did you notice an improvement in the mid bass cause that is where i felt the polks were lacking. Also what about the treble and do you think the sound justifies the higher price? Also do you have the version 3 or 4? Also how does the csi 5 compare to the cc-690? Sorry about all the questions but I've read through this whole thread and finally found someone who had the same speakers as me and also has the speakers I am intrested in, so the more info on the differences the better, thanks in advance. AVKIK

AVKIK,
Like I said I'm no expert, I thought the Polk's sounded good and would have been happy with them. The problem is I found this forum and have been on that slippery slope ever since. I was looking at the Focal's, Polk LSI and Paradigm.
Now to the questions.
I noticed a big improvement in sound quality and was blown away by how much better they sounded. After I got them home, I fired up Transformers again and was very please :D
I have the ver. 4
The 690 center is a monster and the sound is clear and very detailed, that's what I didn't like about the Polk. I tried adjusting the Polk but just couldn't get to sound right. After I hooked up the 690 I had to re-adjust the center because it was to loud. :eek:
You won't be disappointed if you get these speakers.
next on my list is the surrounds, need to save up some $$$$.
Hope this helps you on your quest.

AVKIK

11-29-07, 08:47 PM

dleto, thank you very much for the reply, you've been very helpful. Now I have an 80 mile drive on sat. to audition those studios:confused: I will be auditioning the studio 100's and the studio 20's which I'll probably be using for surround. I auditioned the 100's v3 a few years ago but don't remember exactly what they sounded like, but I do remember liking them alot. Too bad they don't have the cc-690 to audition, Well I know if I get the 100's and 20's I will be getting the "monster". I will be piecing my system together one purchase at a time. By the way what are you thinking about for surround? 20's or the adp-590's? Anyway thanks alot. AVKIK

Babel_Fish

11-29-07, 10:35 PM

I have studio 100s, cc-690 and 4 adp-590 and it sounds GREAT! (denon 4308 and Anthem a5)

doughboy2020

11-30-07, 12:33 AM

I have a new HT set-up with a Denon AVR-3808ci and Paradigm in-wall speakers. My problem is with the PDR 10 Sub, which is auto-on/auto-sensing. It seems to always shut itself off (time out) if there is no deep base being emitted for more than a minute or so. Once it shuts off, there's nothing I can do to kick it on again. I just have to wait and eventually something powerful enough occurs in the movie or music to kick it on again. It's incredibly annoying to have the sub cycling on and off throughout a movie. It seems to happen regardless of what I'm listening to -- DVD, CD, or the cable box. Is this a problem with the Sub or with the amp? What can I do to solve it?

Sorry if this is a newby question, but thanks for any advice you can provide!

wHaCkY

11-30-07, 10:58 AM

Interesting question, I hadn't heard that one before. Maybe some additional information would be helpful, like your crossover settings and Denon settings regarding LFE, etc.

Hopefully, someone will have an idea.:o

bowmah

11-30-07, 06:47 PM

drumminj

11-30-07, 08:57 PM

I think that the Onkyo 605 or 705 might work for you... I would personally prefer the HK AVR-347. These are well within your budget.

Thanks for the input. What makes you personally prefer the HK? Any reason for the 347 over the 247, or the 645, assuming I don't even have an HD TV and thus HDMI upconverting, switching, etc, isn't a concern for me in the near term?

J

tcat

12-01-07, 11:12 AM

I'm also interetsed in this answer BigRock. I am "upgrading" my Panny XR-57 to something with a smoother sound. I have a large room and small Cinema system (110C, 90's, PDR-8). Wondering if the HK-247 would actually be an upgrade. Also considering Onkyo 605, 705. I plan on a receiver upgrade, then a speaker upgrade - to Monitor 20's (or jumping ship to Aperion).

Thanks for the input. What makes you personally prefer the HK? Any reason for the 347 over the 247, or the 645, assuming I don't even have an HD TV and thus HDMI upconverting, switching, etc, isn't a concern for me in the near term?

J

thrand1

12-02-07, 01:55 AM

I feel like I will never nail down a final decision on this setup, haha.

Well, my budget has basically been stretched a bit, so I have a little wiggle room for different options, I would like some opinions if possible, thanks so much.

Budget: $2,000 for 5 speakers plus sub (I'm reserving ~$700 for the sub, so about $1300 or $1400 for the 5 speakers).

Option 1:
Fronts: Mini Monitors
Center: CC-290
Rears: Mini Monitors

Option 2:
Fronts: Mini Monitors
Center: CC-290
Rears: ADP-190

I have discovered that rear speaker placement could be a problem in the viewing area. I've attached a brief image. Basically, the fronts/center are placed by the TV, the sub on the right wall of the room. The rears are where I have a conundrum.

I can't really push the couch away from the wall to make room for the rears/stands because it would basically put the couch in the middle of the room, and that wouldn't work. Well, I suppose I could push it out a little, but definitely not that much. I would also be afraid with Minis on stands that they would be too close to the listening position. So, my questions are as follows:

1) Would there be a big difference between the Minis and ADPs in terms of bass response? The Mini woofers are 1" bigger, and their frequency response is lower (~70Hz vs. 110Hz). Should I be concerned about the lack of reach into lower frequencies for the ADPs, or should the capability of the Minis in combination with the sub be enough to cover up to the 110Hz point where the ADPs kick in? I'm concerned about having a frequency hole where something isn't covered.

2) Would the ADPs offer more placement opportunities given my room layout? I was thinking of either mounting them on the wall behind the couch or placing them immediately to the sides of the couch (not much room there, though)- would the wall placement option work since the ADPs disperse sound more? My main concern is that having Minis that close to the listening position would be overwhelming due to directional sound.

3) Are the ADPs worth the price difference over the Minis (about $450 for two versus $400 for the Minis). The sound dispersion of the ADPs sounds like it could be great, but I'm not sure if they would offer similar performance, especially in terms of bass response.

4) Which option would you go with? 1 or 2? Right now my inclination is the ADP option because it might give me more flexibility regarding placement, but I'd love to hear any of your expert opinions :D

5) I usually try to stay pessimistic/overestimate a little on cost, so I'm estimating about $400 a pair for the Minis, $425 for the CC-290, and $460 for the two ADPs...should I raise this estimate and be more pessimistic, or do you think this would be a reasonable assumption to make concerning prices? I just don't want the number on the cash register to surprise me (at least, not THAT much) when I buy all of this stuff!

Thanks so much in advance for your help- truly one of the most helpful threads I've posted in.

Tyler

mustvid

12-02-07, 03:11 AM

Where can you buy Paradigms on line? If you can, are they authorized dealers?

thrand1

12-02-07, 03:20 AM

Paradigms are not sold online. If anyone is offering them, they are not an authorized dealer, and any warranties with those products would be void. Also, it seems most dealers will give you a small % off of the MSRP anyway, and you don't have to deal with shipping costs. If anything went wrong to merit a return, you wouldn't have to deal with return shipping costs either if you can just take them to the dealer.

Where can you buy Paradigms on line? If you can, are they authorized dealers?

DrPainMD

12-02-07, 03:29 AM

Where can you buy Paradigms on line? If you can, are they authorized dealers?

You can't buy online, check your local dealers.

http://www.paradigm.com/en/dealer_locator/paradigm.php

AVKIK

12-02-07, 07:33 AM

swgiust

12-02-07, 09:41 AM

I own the 100's, 690, and the adp's. I really like this set up. 10% is a fair discount.

oztech

12-02-07, 11:29 AM

Hi paradigmers, I went to a dealership yesterday to audtition the studio 100's and 20's. Both sounded very nice and was very impressed. The dealership was very accomadating, much more than I can say for the dealership I went to last week (I'll post a report on that later). Anyway my question is the dealer offered me a 10% discount if I buy the whole setup (100's, 20's, and cc-690) is that a good discount or should I ask for more? If I should ask for more what's a good way of going about it? Thanks in advance. AVKIK

i know we all want deals but keep in mind should you have a problem later
on the dealer that you purchase from is the one that will be taking care of
the warranty and sometimes taking care of it when warranty does not imply
so long story short a good dealer outweighs discount.

Management

12-02-07, 05:29 PM

How do you guys characterize the sound of the studio line of speakers? Sharp, warm, etc. What makes have 3 way fronts and 5 way center so good? 3 way surround too? What does it add to the listening experience? Sorry pretty new to this and just added these speakers to the audition list. Thank you.

oztech

12-03-07, 11:49 AM

thrand1

12-03-07, 01:16 PM

Anyone care to chime in with their thoughts on this, or did I lose everyone? :p

I feel like I will never nail down a final decision on this setup, haha.

Well, my budget has basically been stretched a bit, so I have a little wiggle room for different options, I would like some opinions if possible, thanks so much.

Budget: $2,000 for 5 speakers plus sub (I'm reserving ~$700 for the sub, so about $1300 or $1400 for the 5 speakers).

Option 1:
Fronts: Mini Monitors
Center: CC-290
Rears: Mini Monitors

Option 2:
Fronts: Mini Monitors
Center: CC-290
Rears: ADP-190

I have discovered that rear speaker placement could be a problem in the viewing area. I've attached a brief image. Basically, the fronts/center are placed by the TV, the sub on the right wall of the room. The rears are where I have a conundrum.

I can't really push the couch away from the wall to make room for the rears/stands because it would basically put the couch in the middle of the room, and that wouldn't work. Well, I suppose I could push it out a little, but definitely not that much. I would also be afraid with Minis on stands that they would be too close to the listening position. So, my questions are as follows:

1) Would there be a big difference between the Minis and ADPs in terms of bass response? The Mini woofers are 1" bigger, and their frequency response is lower (~70Hz vs. 110Hz). Should I be concerned about the lack of reach into lower frequencies for the ADPs, or should the capability of the Minis in combination with the sub be enough to cover up to the 110Hz point where the ADPs kick in? I'm concerned about having a frequency hole where something isn't covered.

2) Would the ADPs offer more placement opportunities given my room layout? I was thinking of either mounting them on the wall behind the couch or placing them immediately to the sides of the couch (not much room there, though)- would the wall placement option work since the ADPs disperse sound more? My main concern is that having Minis that close to the listening position would be overwhelming due to directional sound.

3) Are the ADPs worth the price difference over the Minis (about $450 for two versus $400 for the Minis). The sound dispersion of the ADPs sounds like it could be great, but I'm not sure if they would offer similar performance, especially in terms of bass response.

4) Which option would you go with? 1 or 2? Right now my inclination is the ADP option because it might give me more flexibility regarding placement, but I'd love to hear any of your expert opinions :D

5) I usually try to stay pessimistic/overestimate a little on cost, so I'm estimating about $400 a pair for the Minis, $425 for the CC-290, and $460 for the two ADPs...should I raise this estimate and be more pessimistic, or do you think this would be a reasonable assumption to make concerning prices? I just don't want the number on the cash register to surprise me (at least, not THAT much) when I buy all of this stuff!

Thanks so much in advance for your help- truly one of the most helpful threads I've posted in.

Tyler

oztech

12-03-07, 02:44 PM

if you listen to multichannel music i would give the mini monitors a try.

thrand1

12-03-07, 09:08 PM

if you listen to multichannel music i would give the mini monitors a try.

Can you elaborate a little further? I guess I don't understand how the Minis would have a distinct advantage over the ADPs in that regard.

My use will be 80/20 HT/music, and I'm just trying to see if anyone thinks the ADP-190s are worth the extra ~$20 extra for each speaker over the Mini Monitors for use as rear speakers. Where the rear speakers SHOULD be going, I have my couch against that wall, and very little/no space to move it forward, so I was thinking since the ADPs can be mounted flush against the wall that would solve the problem.

My one concern with the ADPs as I mentioned earlier is the low frequency response (110Hz) versus the Minis (70Hz). With Minis and the CC-290 up front and a sub (SVS PB12-NSD), would I notice a significant difference in performance between the Minis as rears versus the ADPs as rears? Again, I'm worried about ultra-direct sound from the Minis versus dispersed sound from the ADPs. I'm thinking with the ADPs dispersing sound it could help balance the sound in my oddly-shaped room. I posted a picture of the room back in a previous post.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

gia

12-03-07, 11:54 PM

Hello my fellow Paradigm owners. I am about to join the club but I have some questions that I am hoping you might be able to help me with. I am in the process of researching speakers for a 5.1 setup and have come up with the following after listening to the Paradigms:

Fronts: Signature S4
Center: Signature S3
Or
Fronts: Signature S6
Center: Signature S3

Sub: Still in question

I have an Integra 8.8 receiver on order and like my music and movies relatively loud. I plan on using the HT setup mainly for music and will bi-amp the fronts.

Any suggestions on the above setup?

Warpdrv

12-04-07, 12:17 AM

What size room do you have...?

I went with Full size Studio's with 690 center channel.. I have a gynormous room though... and I listen at reference levels for movies and music..

I always say go big... Shoot for the C5 for center (thats if you can fit it) with the S6's.. I would

Check Audiogon for some cost savings... there are some really passionate owners there, that just want someone to love the speakers they are being forced to give up...

avsfreak

12-04-07, 03:44 PM

oztech

12-04-07, 05:53 PM

I have a home theater that is about 200sq ft. I am going to be powering the speakers with 7.1 surround Pioneer vtx 1017.

I am currently using some cheapo infinity speakers, and it sounds great! I figured stepping up to the paradigms will give me stellar performance, but, wondering if It will be overkill to go for the Monitor 11s.

Any suggestions anyone?

buy the most speaker you can fit into your budget that sounds the best
to you because its the one component that gets changed the least over
the years if done right the first time.

wHaCkY

12-06-07, 06:03 PM

I have a slightly larger area and I went with Monitor 9's, cc 390 and in ceiling surrounds and rear surrounds from their AMS series. I think it will have plenty of power to fill the room. But if you like the biggest speakers, then by all means go for the Monitor 11's.:cool:

I stayed with the 9's due to same driver size as the center channel to make the sound as seemless as possible.

Tuddy

12-07-07, 11:32 AM

I have been on the fence for a couple of weeks after auditioning the Sig 6 and B&W 804's

I want the 6's, but I am concerned about the Berilliyum tweeter and hearing
any "screechy" or annoying metal sounds.

My concern is due to the fact that I have a bright room and Paradigms can be forward and some material
can be bright with Paradigms (even current owners have recently told me this, but they temper any brightness with an EQ),
but this is what I want, forward and dynamic speakers.

I have a open floor space, 2400 SQ feet with tile floor and hardwoods
My HT is in the great room, 25X15, 15 foot ceilings and 2 skylights, large
paladium window to the right of the speakers, all open to the left

I have a large, thick rug (12x12) w/a rug pad and on top sits a wrap around soft leather sectional couch, so this will help temper any brightness.

Final auditions of both speaks this weekend.

I would appreciate input from any owners of the Sig 6 or any Sig V2 speakers.

Thx.

Warpdrv

12-07-07, 03:30 PM

My concern is due to the fact that I have a bright room and Paradigms can be forward and some material
can be bright with Paradigms (even current owners have recently told me this, but they temper any brightness with an EQ),
but this is what I want, forward and dynamic speakers.

Final auditions of both speaks this weekend.
Thx.

What kind of equipment will you be running with these...

I would think that they have a more tamed back/smoother tweeter then the studio's and I have dialed them down in my AVR with the EQ just a tiny bit..

Do you have the ability to tame the high's if you wanted... I am not in the grouping of "I WILL NEVER USE AN EQ"... I would probably be less likely to boost then lower... I see nothing wrong with that Idea...

Good Luck, curious if you picked them up or not.. They are beautiful speakers... I am drooling for you...

thrand1

12-07-07, 03:52 PM

spag

12-07-07, 07:40 PM

I have a home theater that is about 200sq ft. I am going to be powering the speakers with 7.1 surround Pioneer vtx 1017.

I am currently using some cheapo infinity speakers, and it sounds great! I figured stepping up to the paradigms will give me stellar performance, but, wondering if It will be overkill to go for the Monitor 11s.

Any suggestions anyone?

Listen to both. I actually like the 9s a little better than the 11s personally. Everyone is different though.

Warpdrv

12-07-07, 09:43 PM

Oh man, I must be getting in over my head now...

Newest configuration:
Fronts: Monitor 7
Center: CC-290
Rears: ADP-190s

I'm probably going to get an Onkyo TX-SR805 to hook all of this up to, and it's rated as 130wpc. I'm sure the Monitor 7's will eat it up and ask for more, but is there any risk for the center or the rears in terms of too much power?

Also, I was wondering what gauge of speaker wire people were using with their Paradigms. My runs will be short, with the max run being about 25 feet to the rear speakers. I'm just getting cables from Monoprice, and was going to go with 12AWG. Any thoughts?

I wouldn't worry about having too much power rated from a reciever..
Generally they are way over rated, measuring only 1 channel at a time, instead of "all channels driven".

Measured at all channels driven, I'll bet its more like 40-50wpc.

Either way, the speakers in question are very efficient, and will easily get loud and still sound good on minimal power. I think the 12awg is overkill. I like over kill but here is good chart for what wire to use - scroll down.. from this site. http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
Your Speakers are 8ohm...
Good Luck

saz25

12-08-07, 11:04 AM

Hi,
I just received the new S6 and so far I love them. I also just got the C3 center.

As for the amp. I currently have an ADCOM GFA-555, which I've had for about 15 years. These drive my 2 front speakers, S6, and I have a Denon 4802 that drive the surrounds and center.

Now I'm considering getting a better amp. I was leaning towards another 2 channel amp until someone mentioned a 3 channel amp that could drive the center as well. Who makes 3 channel amps and are they worth it?

I feel that a 5 channal amp would be overkill.
Any thoughts on the subject? Would I notice an improvement over the ADCOM GFA-555?
Thanks,
Steve it

N8DOGG

12-08-07, 11:46 AM

have you looked at anthem? they make a great 3 ch amp. MCA 30

http://www.anthemav.com/NewSitev2.0/AnthemProduct/MCASeries/MCASpecs/MCASeriesSpecs.html

Warpdrv

12-08-07, 12:35 PM

have you looked at anthem? they make a great 3 ch amp. MCA 30

http://www.anthemav.com/NewSitev2.0/AnthemProduct/MCASeries/MCASpecs/MCASeriesSpecs.html

I second that request... there are not alot of 3 channel amps out there...
Another idea might be Emotiva... They can make your a 3 channel amp or their prices are pretty good, and you could get a 5 channel for a good price... They can sell you a chassis and you can add in as many cards as you like...

I bought a Rotel RMB-1095 200 x 5 off of Audiogon (http://www.audiogon.com/).. great used piece for a great price... You can search for the first 3 digits in your zipcode to find stuff near you to save shipping, as amps are heavy...

I wouldn't go any less then 200 wpc for those front 3.. Congrats buddy,

BTW YOUR POST is Worthless without pics... :);)

6SpeedTA95

12-08-07, 03:40 PM

Hey guys, Paradigm pulled their MSRP's off their website, I guess because the canadian dollar is now worth what the US dollar is.

However, that puts me in a bit of a bind. Where can I find the MSRP of the monitor line?

I know the Monitor 9 is 899 but that is the only one I can recall.

Milamber

12-08-07, 06:08 PM

Russdawg

12-08-07, 06:11 PM

6SpeedTA95

12-08-07, 06:36 PM

http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.htm#Paradigm

Those all say v4??? Aren't the new ones the v5???

Also it looks like prices have jumped up? Or are those canadian prices?

edit: nevermind just checked the link date, its from 06, but that will at least give me some sort of idea...thank you...

If anyone has an updated list for the v5's that would be appreciated.

6SpeedTA95

12-08-07, 06:37 PM

Guys I posted this in the Klipsch thread on request, I figured I might post it here, you guys may find it interesting...

I'd be happy to.

First of all let me say again that this rather extensive audition involved just music as that will be the primary use of my speakers.

Secondly the new reference line just kills the older line in my book. It is far smoother and has a more natural sound than prior reference lines.

Now as for the evaluation, I compared the RF-62s and the RF-82s directly to the Paradigm Monitor 9s. This was done on an integra 2 channel receiver at 100W/channel.

My primary concern was with the RF-62 as I assumed the 82s would be too boomy and drowned out the mids (I was right).

For the entire test we had the EQ set to flat. We began with some Metallica S&M (san francisco philharmonic in the background). I've found this 2 disc collection to have some fantastically tough sound to reproduce.

I started on the Klipsch, played a song on the RF62 then the same song on the Monitor 9. Difference started to become very appearant just a few seconds into the first song on the Monitor 9s. At moderate levels of volume the highs on the RF62s were pretty good but you could definately tell they were a brighter speaker than the paradigm's, the mids were also not bad. The lows were accurate and pretty full.

As I began A/Bing the speakers during the same song the differences became even more appearant. The midrange was much more lifelike on the paradigms as each instrument from the guitars to the violins had a very clear and distinct presence with distance between each instrument if that makes sense. The seperation was better on the paradigm.

As we increased the volume level the Klipsch played very VERY loud with little effort on the high side, but it seemed the louder it got the more the mids sort of sank to the back. They became much more distant. Also doing A/Bing in sections with good bass drum kicks and base lines the RF-62 seemed to get a little a sloppy with what sounded like cabinet resonance (this really surprised me). Now having said that the low end on the Klipsch remained prevelant but didn't sound as tight. The highs became quite piercing at high levels. (some may prefer this it is simply not to my liking) The paradigms also began to feel a bit bright as we approached 0 on the volume indicator (or reference volume I guess is what its called). While they were bright they remained well controlled and tighter than the klipsch did. But the low end presence was more prominent on the klipsch at high volumes than it was on the paradigm, but the paradigm's remained more accurate.

The RF-82 really didn't even come close to these two in overall sound quality. The mids just become too distant on the RF-82 as the orchestra sounded muffled and almost as if they were playing on a set of very small low quality speakers. The bass extension was much better on the RF-82 however but despite trying various cross over points I couldn't get the mids to come back to life on the 82. At that point I crossed the 82's off for good.

Next up was a test with the new Maroon 5 CD. I'm very familiar with this cd which is a reason I chose it to do more evaluation. The paradigms once again sounded far better overall. Although the Klispch did a better job hitting some of the lows in a couple of the songs, as volume increased the sloppy sound came back as if the drivers were being over worked. As with the metallica cd the mids seemed to fad as volumes increased. At this point I spent the remaining 20 minutes or so listening to the paradigm and crossing in the sub at various points.

edit: I'm making a couple of additions here because I've just remembered a couple of things I'd like to add...

At lower volume levels the Klipsch sounded pretty good. The highs were a bit bright but not harsh and the mids were there. As you apply power and not much is when things begin to feel a bit artificial with the Klipsch horn style tweeter. It wasn't bad, but it definately wasn't great. As you approach 1W of power (isn't much I know but as effecient as both speakers are it was a reaosnable volume) there was a distinct difference in the sound between the two. The Paradigm was smoother and more natural and the horn style tweater seemed to add a bit of a nasal sound or a tiny/hollow sound. I'm not really sure how to explain it to be honest. It was not gross or anything but definately different. The bass even at lower volumes was good on the Klipsch but more natural on the Paradigm, this became especially noticable once again as you approach 1W.

The RF-62 is indeed a good speaker. I still came away impressed with the progress klipsch has made in this latest line. But for me its worth spending the extra money on the Paradigms. They just came across as more accurate and much stronger in the mid range performance. So now I've gotta listen to some Paradigm and PSB stuff some more.

Hope this helps and I'm NOT trying to piss off the Klipsch crew just posting my thoughts on what I preferred.

Dan Hitchman

12-08-07, 06:46 PM

Hello all -

I thought I would post this question in this thread since some people have been asking for advice in purchasing Paradigm speakers here.

I am looking at purchasing the Studio CC-590 center and two Studio 40 speakers for my front channels. I am getting them to replace some old M&K speakers (THX 750 Center) that I am currently running. They are about 7-8 years old now, and have never sounded very dynamic, always kind of falling flat to my ears. All three speakers are the same center channel model. Anyone think that will make a huge difference?

I am running them with Rotel amps through a Rotel RSP-1066 DSP. I am also running Hsu Research and Polk Audio subs in a room that is 4200 cubic feet. I am dealing with fixed spaces for these speakers that cannot be changed for now, so I am dealing with fixed dimensions and trying to get a good book shelf speaker to fit in that area. The Paradigms mentioned above fall within my price point and available space, so is why I was thinking about them. There is a Paradigm dealer opening here in about three weeks, so I should be able to audition them then, but I wanted to start doing some research before I get to that point.

I am curious if anyone has any expereince with these speakers and what they think? Are they a drastic improvement over the Monitor series? The prices are certainly different, but I am always cautious about more expensive items not necessarily being worth the extra money. According to the dealer here, there is a big enough difference that the Studio series make the most sense for my situation. Every review I have read so far has been very positive, but since I have never heard Paradigm speakers before I thought I would ask the experts. Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.

Rob

Yes, IMHO the Studios (v.4) are a big difference. Much cleaner and realistic sound than the Monitor series. Very open without sounding harsh or metallic. I liked the Studios 100's better than the av123 Rocket RS850's at least from the mid to high frequency range. YMMV. I have an HSU sub myself for the low bass.

However, for the center I would bite the bullet and get the CC-690. Of course it's bigger and you will need two center speaker stands of the proper height and place it all on the floor, but the difference between the 590 and 690 are signifant enough. The center channel, for movies anyway, is the most important speaker so don't skimp.

It might help if you have pictures of the enclosure you're working with. I would, personally, go with the 60's or 100's in the front, CC-690 center, and 40's in the sides and back to make 7.1 (or a mirrored pair of towers on the sides if you like multi-channel, high resolution music from SA-CD, DVD-Audio, and Blu-ray). You can't go overkill enough for kick ass audio!!

Dan

Warpdrv

12-08-07, 06:56 PM

Milamber

12-08-07, 07:21 PM

polonez

12-08-07, 07:46 PM

thrand1

12-08-07, 08:53 PM

here is a price sheet, you have to scroll down on the PDF.
http://www.audioemporium.com/2008catalog.pdf
I don't see anything whether they are .v4 or .v5...

Have there even been any changes made to the speakers this year..?

They describe nothing different then what the new changes were made from last year..
Please correct me if Im wrong here..

Those are pretty accurate prices. I know my local shop sells the Atom Monitors for $245/pair, the Mini Monitors for $380/pair, and the Titans for $485/pair, so I think that PDF is a good basis to start with. The Paradigms start on page 6 of that PDF.

6SpeedTA95

12-08-07, 10:26 PM

Thanks for the pricing list guys, I found my notes from August. 899.00 for the Monitor 9's, 379.00 for the Mini Monitors and CC290 was 399.00...so this list is pretty dang close. Could just be geographical difference or something.

sangdabom

12-08-07, 11:05 PM

My Set to watch DVD and TV

Studio 80 v2
Studio CC v2
ADP 170 v3
PDR12 sub
Marantz SR8200
Panasonic DVD-S97
Samsung 56" DLP

For Music

B&W Matrix 803 S2(recently replaced Studio 80)
Marantz SA14 SACD player
CJ PV14L Preamp
Classe CA201 amp

Basement

Samsung DLP 56"
Denon AVR4306
Paradigm Studio 80
Difinitive Surround speakers from left over set from my parents.
Xbox 360
Nintendo Wii
Still needs Center speaker

The paradigm setup was purchased about 5years ago and I loved them. However, I added separates and new CD player for more music listening last year, and boy, what a difference it made. I never really had any separates before and it surely made me happy.

I replaced studio 80 with B&W Matrix 803 not too long ago, and I like B&Ws better. They have much tighter base and overall dynamic than paradigm.
Paradigm studio 80's are put down to basement system now with Denon AVR4306.

saz25

12-08-07, 11:33 PM

I have ADCOM 5500 and 5503 (3 channel) . Check their website for details.
You may like those powerhouses.
Thanks for the suggestion. Buying an amp seems to be the most difficult part if putting together a good system. I wonder if theres anyone out there who upgraded from an adcom gfa-555 to another amp. What differences did you hear?

What differences can I expect to hear with these new adcoms?

Also the dealer I bought the Paradigm S6 and C3 from strongly recommends the Anthem PVA line or whatever its`called. Its the one above the MCA line.

Money/cost is always a factor, plus I don't want to pay more than I have to. They may be able to loan me one of the Anthem PVA amps in a few`weeks after I break in my S6. Besides the amps they carry, I won't be able to audition an amp like the adcom 5500. I'd have to buy it sight unseen.

Any suggestions? When I bought the 555 years ago, I bought it totally based on reviews I read at the time.
Thanks,
Steve

Dan Hitchman

12-09-07, 02:04 AM

I bet your dealer recommended the Anthem amp. Anthem and Paradigm are sister companies just as B&W and Rotel are. He has an incentive to with his agreement with the manufacturers. A salesman at a large local B&W dealer in Denver admitted as such. They're encouraged to push the electronics and amps and speakers from the same company.

Judge for yourself. I also very much liked the Parasound Halo line of amps. Silky smooth... if you can say that about sound.

Dan

Dan Hitchman

12-09-07, 02:11 AM

Hi Dan -

I appreciate your feedback. Let me get some pics and post them later. That should better indicate my predicament concerning size requirements. While I would like to rip the whole thing out and just have a floor standing setup, my wife is adamant about keeping it in the current setup. While it does work better with our downstairs, it sure precludes one from really geeking out on purchases. :)

I wanted to ask one more thing. In order for this to fit in my current setup I will be running the Studios 40s horizontally. Is there any reason I should expect a loss or degradation in sound quality?

Man you really have it bad with that, I guess you could call it, entertainment nook.

I would encourage you NOT to place vertical aligned speakers on their sides for various reasons besides sonic quality considerations. Not to mention the degradation in audio quality by placing them in a cabinet or alcove.

Can you suggest a trade to your wife like if I can have my electronic toy space (ie, theater room, or man cave if you will) you can have something else? That seems to be what many guys on this forum have to do unless they're single or have the perfect wife who loves A/V just as much as they do.

polonez

12-09-07, 09:40 AM

hi
all I can sugesst is search the web for adcom 5500 reviews. These amps have been
in production for more than 10 years.In a nuttshell ; good harmonics, deep bass,
a lot of power ,built like tanks and affordable ( in my case).I am about to buy
studio 40, cc 690, adp590. For 2 channel audio I use adcom gfp 555 II preamp.(it has
processor in inputs).
My new yamaha htr 6190 will serve as sound decoder for home cinema .
Just an advantage of using separate components

tjmunro

12-09-07, 10:47 AM

shogunprophet

12-10-07, 03:17 PM

So I'm planning on going this week to audition the Paradigm Monitor 9's (vs the Monitor Audio RS6's). Couldn't find anything online on whether it uses veneer's or vinyl... anyone mind telling me which? I will say this... if the pictures of the matching center channel (CC-390) look huge I can't wait to see that thing in person too!

- Jon

sanjaygolf

12-10-07, 05:04 PM

I just bought the Studio 20s v2 and CC v2 for 650 off ebay. Is this a good deal? I currently own Mini Monitor v4 and cc-170 v3 and have only heard the 20v4. I saw them and I just have an itchy-trigger finger I guess.

portculis

12-10-07, 06:44 PM

Hi All,

I'm very close to pulling the trigger on the Studio 100v4s, a cc-690, and 2 ADP-590s. Only a couple of fit and finish details left to decide:

First question, Color/Finish Premium:

My dealer is checking, but thought that any finish but black adds roughly $90/per unit. Wondering if indeed that is standard practice for paradigms. Also the "colors" are a little glossy and the black is quite flat... true?

Second question, "when" is the cc-690 indeed magnetically shielded:

My dealer though that ONLY the black finish was magnetically shielded. True?

Third, has anyone been able to sucessfully stand mount an ADP? How have you done it, what have you used? (And why did you choose to stand mount?)

Thanks for any insight!

-Close to going "Studio" for Christmas :D

JohnGZ28

12-10-07, 08:40 PM

Hi All,

First question, Color/Finish Premium:

Second question, "when" is the cc-690 indeed magnetically shielded:

Third, has anyone been able to successfully stand mount an ADP? How have you done it, what have you used? (And why did you choose to stand mount?)

Thanks for any insight!

-Close to going "Studio" for Christmas :D

1. I think there is a premium for the Rosenut finish
2. Yes it is shielded

http://www.paradigm.com/en/reference/speaker_only-specification-50-1-3-13.paradigm

3. Don't have ADPs but you should be able to mount them on the J-stands.

portculis

12-10-07, 09:16 PM

1. I think there is a premium for the Rosenut finish
2. Yes it is shielded

http://www.paradigm.com/en/reference/speaker_only-specification-50-1-3-13.paradigm

3. Don't have ADPs but you should be able to mount them on the J-stands.

Thanks for the quick response John! My dealer just called back, and apparently the finish premiums apply on the signature series, not the studio. (?) (At least he won't charge me extra.) He also confirms your post in that all cc-690 are mag shielded in any finish, glad to hear it.

I'll take a look at the J stands, probably j-29. If there are any of you out there who own ADP and have stand mounted, I'd love to hear your advice. My dealer says Paradigm's suggestion IS the j-29 or 23 and SCREWING straight into the ADP cabinet. :eek: (Fear.) I think I'd VELCRO before putting a screw into a paradigm! (I really want the option to wall mount and still have 'em look nice if we move...)

Looking at the corner configuration as illustrated in figure 1b in the adp-590 manual, page 1 and 5. http://www.paradigm.com/en/pdf/user_manuals/OwnersManual_studioadp590.pdf

Thanks all.

AVKIK

12-10-07, 09:53 PM

portculis, did your dealer give you a discount and if so how much? My dealer is giving me 10% still trying to figure out a way of asking for more :confused: Thanks AVKIK.

portculis

12-11-07, 12:14 AM

portculis, did your dealer give you a discount and if so how much? My dealer is giving me 10% still trying to figure out a way of asking for more :confused: Thanks AVKIK.

Yes, but I know him outside of work, so he got me a better deal than usual. I committed not to provide details (sorry :() It was less than many percentages listed here, but again, only based on our personal realtionship in this case. IF he didn't know me, I bet he would have done 15% just fine, but not too much less -- and only for a cash deal. (He drops 3% off of anything if it's not on a credit card.) My GUESS is that these things go for around 30% or so markup, but that is a HUGE GUESS.

In my experience, I have had good luck setting a "researched" budget and going into a trusted dealer and saying "based on what I've seen, I really don't feel comfortable spending above this amount for the system. Do you have any options (cash deal, package pricing, pickup instead of delivery, etc.) that might help? I really want both of us to feel OK about it." (I told my dealer from the beginning that I just didn't feel good paying over FMV-15% when going for a whole setup.) Just be straight with your dealer and transparently communicate the level YOU feel good about. A dealer who would sell you a set of speakers at a price that either of you don't feel comfortable with is a bad sign. If my dad were here he'd say, "a sucessful negotiation is one where BOTH sides feel the final arrangement is fair." :p I better stop, I'm waxing philosophic now. Again, sorry I can't share the total discount percentage, but I promise it won't help... :o

BTW, after about 6 months of cold feet "look, don't touch" I just pulled the trigger on the black 100v4s, cc-690, and ADP-590s on j-29 stands a coupel hours ago. And I'm still married. ;) Should be here by end of next week. YAHOO! Will be pairing 'em with the Onkyo TX-NR905 (Yeah, not optimal as far as the amp stage goes, but... back to that price comfort level thing... :)) Goodbye, dear, beloved Polk 10Bs. Now... how to glue those ADPs on the stands so they don't "shake off!"

-P

bash

12-11-07, 02:55 AM

Current set up is floor standing Klipsch ref-3 II speakers. they are Highly sensitive and seem to be a little 'bright' with my Yamaha rx-v1ooo. Subwoofer duties are handled by my SVS PB Plus/2.

I recently heard some Paradigm reference 40 and while they weren't playing very loud, the soundstage was awesome. It seemed to envelope you in sound all around.

Are there other speakers with similar ability? If not, which dealer may have good prices or even dealer demos?

I had one bookmarked with a Paradigm dealer with demo 40s but for the life of me, can no longer find it. Any suggestions?

Thanks

Warpdrv

12-11-07, 07:57 AM

I'll take a look at the J stands, probably j-29. If there are any of you out there who own ADP and have stand mounted, I'd love to hear your advice. My dealer says Paradigm's suggestion IS the j-29 or 23 and SCREWING straight into the ADP cabinet. :eek: (Fear.) I think I'd VELCRO before putting a screw into a paradigm! (I really want the option to wall mount and still have 'em look nice if we move...)

Looking at the corner configuration as illustrated in figure 1b in the adp-590 manual, page 1 and 5. http://www.paradigm.com/en/pdf/user_manuals/OwnersManual_studioadp590.pdf

Thanks all.

I have a single ADP in a corner that is right now on a stand, but its just sitting on the stand. This is definately not the way to do it.. I just haven't built a corner mount for it yet.. If your going to mount it to the stand, I would drill a couple of holes in the stand, and mount a 4" x 6" piece of 3/4" wood to the stand, and then mount the bracket on that.. and you can also connect the safety strap onto that...

Good luck...

portculis

12-11-07, 11:48 AM

Thanks warp... that's great advice.

-P

ginovino

12-11-07, 05:07 PM

bayn

12-12-07, 04:54 PM

6SpeedTA95

12-12-07, 06:11 PM

Good to know, now I feel pretty good about the price I'm selling my Paradigm stuff for :D
Wish I knew that when I bought them.

Didn't you just buy your paradigm stuff? Why are you selling it?

macming

12-12-07, 06:21 PM

ginovino

12-12-07, 06:28 PM

Good to know, now I feel pretty good about the price I'm selling my Paradigm stuff for :D
Wish I knew that when I bought them.

Not because it is in my product line but Paradigm is a first rate sounding speaker, well designed, great parts, outstanding quality control and support.

Is there a sweet spot in the line? Of course! On the high end the Reference and some Signature series models are overated and overpriced. In that strata you are approaching the Thiels, Martin Logan which are unquestionably better speakers on all points.

Though if you stay within the monitor series and some lower models in the signature series you are getting as good as there is out there at that price point.

The Cinema series are a steal period. They use the tweeters and mids of the upper lines!

bayn

12-12-07, 07:16 PM

Didn't you just buy your paradigm stuff? Why are you selling it?

Yup, its all pretty much new, maybe got a bit o' dust on them :)
I swapped over to a Onix/Rocket setup, I just like the look a lot more and of course they don't sound half bad either.
Dont get me wrong, the Paradigms look good, but the Rockets, if you like the look, can be jaw dropping in person. (Lucky for me, I like the look :D)

6SpeedTA95

12-12-07, 09:03 PM

Yup, its all pretty much new, maybe got a bit o' dust on them :)
I swapped over to a Onix/Rocket setup, I just like the look a lot more and of course they don't sound half bad either.
Dont get me wrong, the Paradigms look good, but the Rockets, if you like the look, can be jaw dropping in person. (Lucky for me, I like the look :D)

How about the sound differences? You've got direct hands on comparisons with them....

I'm considering the Monitor 9's (prefer the sound better than the 11s) CC290 or 390 (not sure yet) and the Mini Monitors for rears...

What are the pluses and minuses of the Paradigms and Rockets?

And I assume you picked up your 850s at 1k/pair? At 1400 or 1600/pair would they still be better?

galwar

12-12-07, 09:44 PM

milky way

12-13-07, 12:17 AM

Which Paradigm to begin with?
I briefly listened to Studio 100, very lovely. I'd like to get a less costly pair to see whether I will really want to get Studio 100.
My past experience: I love my NHT Super Zero, but I didn't like Super One (I later got Super Two); I also have Infinity Beta 50's, however, I tried Beta 40's first, although not bad, something wasn't right to my ears (not about bass, a part of mid range is not full enough like Beta 50's). So, which cheaper one is true Paradigm sound?

bayn

12-13-07, 01:37 AM

thrand1

12-13-07, 10:44 AM

I have a 18 x 16 family room that opens to the kitchen area. The room also has a very tall ceiling (two floors). Here is what I am considering for the speaker system (floor-standing speakers are not an option):

F/R/C: Millenia 20 (wall-mounted next to 60" plasma)
Surrounds: Millenia ADP (wall-mounted) or SA-10R (in-wall)
Subwoofer: Ultracube 10

Questions:
a) Is this a good combination?
b) Are the Millenia 20's sufficient for the room size or do I need to upgrade to the Millenia 30's?
c) Are the ADP's significantly better than the SA-10R? Any other speakers I should consider?
d) Is the Ultracube 10 sufficient or do I need to upgrade to the a more powerful sub-woofer such as the Seismic 10?

Appreciate your input on this!

a) Seems like a good setup, especially if design/decor limits floorstanding speakers or bookshelf speakers on stands

b) The Millenia 30's might provide better bass response since they're using 5.5" woofers versus 4.5" woofers on the 20's. They are also more sensitive (94dB vs. 92dB) than the 20's, so they might be easier to drive. If you have the room in the budget, the 30's would be my choice. Will they offer x% more performance for x% more in price? One can never be sure...

c) If you have a room that may be considered "less than perfect" in terms of shape and how sound waves travel, then the ADPs may be a good route for you. My room that I am putting HT gear in is shaped like a pentagon, so having mono-directional speakers would make it hard for me to balance out the tonal response in the room. Since ADPs are more dispersive, they may not play as loudly as the SA-10Rs, but they may help to "fill in" the sound more.

d) You didn't really state your budget, so that makes it difficult to answer this question. I'm sure others will disagree, but I think sometimes that Paradigm subs are a little overpriced at the entry to mid-level subs for the performance they offer. Again, it's a matter of personal taste- I want something with a little more SPL/kick out of my sub, and the Paradigms in my price range weren't as fulfilling. If you were to give your budget for the sub, that might help since the UltraCube is MSRP ~$850 and the Seismic about MSRP ~$1400.

Also, what are you using this sub for? Is it primarily music or HT related (80/20? 70/30?). Are there other factors at play like available spacing (do you need a more compact sub, or can you have an extra end table? :D ), decor limitations (do you need something with a fine wood finish or can you have a black box sitting around the room)? Also, can you give an approximate dimension for how high your ceilings are? 20 feet? 30 feet? The size of the room can have substantial play on how much pressurization you get out of the sub.

Without knowing the answers to the questions above, consider the following:

At ~$850, you could consider:
1) SVS PB12-NSD/2 (http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-isd2.cfm)- $799 + $99 shipping- 2 12" woofers, 600w BASH amp, 16Hz extension modes using included port plugs. A big boy though at 19" wide, 26.5" tall and 28" deep, weighing in at 125 pounds.
2) HSU VTF-3 MK3 w/ or w/o Turbocharger (http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-mk3-turbo.html)- $600-800- The turbocharger on these models increases the amount of air that can be pushed in the extended mode.

Or, if you need something much more compact, look at...
SVS SB-12 Plus (http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12plus.cfm)- $699 for black vinyl, $749 for premium finishes- much more compact at 15” deep x 14" wide x 14 " high, but with still good performance.

If you are considering something around the Seismic 10 price range, check out the SVS PB-13Ultra as well. If there are further decor considerations, you could also take a look at SVS Cylinder subwoofers...much smaller footprint. Hope this helps.

thrand1

12-13-07, 10:49 AM

milky way

12-13-07, 04:29 PM

Budget? How much cheaper are you looking to go?

Studio 100's are about $2500/pair, so the next step down would be Studio 60's at $1900/pair, Studio 40's at $1500/pair...
Around $600, before Studio 100's = $2,500.
My local dealer is different now. They let me try multiple speakers at home for a month before I decided, of course, if any damage I will buy it -- over years they got quite a few business from my friends (you know, those rich people, love Bose; until they came to my place, wowed by my old NHT, they went on to buy $10,000 stuff .... they mainly watch TV).
I got to say, something is special about Studio 100's. I have been thinking about new speakers for a few years, none of them really make me "WANT" them. I am just a bit afraid, love at first listen, but not love in the long run.

galwar

12-13-07, 07:24 PM

Edllguy

12-13-07, 09:42 PM

Topic: Speaker wires for my very soon to be purchased Paradigm speakers.

Hello Paradigm owners and followers. Could not find a specific AVS forum to ask my above topic related question. So I will ask in this specific sub forum. If this is not appropriate please direct me to the proper area of AVS.

I will purchasing the Paradigm M9's, CC-290, and ADP-190's. They will be connected to the Pioneer Elite 94 receiver. I'm going to assume speakers wires are usually not included with speakers, right? Remember I'm coming from a Bose background where wires are included! So what should I be looking for in terms of speaker wires? Also there's a term called speaker Gauge or Gage, I think, meaning wire thickness or quality? Not really sure. However, I would like to have very good to excellent quality speaker wires.

Can someone please advise and direct me. It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone.

Dan Hitchman

12-14-07, 12:19 AM

www.bluejeanscable.com

Belden 5000UE 12 gauge speaker wire. Locking banana plugs for the termination (need one pair of plugs per wire end-- one pair at the speaker and one at the receiver). I usually go with 5T00UP 10 gauge (even thicker) for longer runs, especially to surround speakers (or I just go for broke and use 10 gauge all round). I've never used wall mount speakers (like dipolars), but I don't think you will have enough clearance for banana plugs for the surround speakers. A bare wire connection (or tinned with some silver speaker wire solder to keep the strands in a tight bundle with less chance of oxidation) may have to do for the wires going into those connectors.

Cheap and extremely good quality. Bose owners never had it so good!

I've never been a fan of smaller gauge wire like 14 or 16. Remember with wire gauges the smaller the number the thicker the wire.

galwar

12-14-07, 12:25 AM

Does anyone know the MSRP for Millenia ADP? I have seen two conflicting numbers: $599/pair and $599/each!

Warpdrv

12-14-07, 12:33 AM

galawar go here for current pricing on the full line up.
http://www.audioemporium.com/2008catalog.pdf

***edit***
Awwww Cr@p, i don't think they list the price for that one.... grr

sorry

Edllguy

12-14-07, 01:54 AM

rich909

12-14-07, 02:45 AM

I just picked up my Paradigm speakers today.

I went with Millenia 30's for the fronts and center channel. These will be wall mounted next to my Samsung LCD LNT5271F (Unreal Picture)

I also picked up 2 SA15R30's for the rears that will be ceiling mounted along with an UltraCube 10 for Bass.

My previous setup was all in wall and ceiling but I wanted to get the best sound quality I could with a clean look.

I have 3 young kids which prevented me from going floor standing and I think the Millenia 30's were the best fit for what I was looking for.

I will be running my 5.1 setup with the new NAD T785 I just picked up with my speakers.

I'm going to try and set this up this weekend and feedback or suggestions.

Thanks

Stealthlude

12-14-07, 02:59 AM

Thank you Dan Hitchman for your quick response and helping me to make an educated choice in purchasing these speaker wires.

Thanks

Go with MonoPrice... the price seems to be cheaper for most items.

jkhome

12-14-07, 07:30 AM

I've never been a fan of smaller gauge wire like 14 or 16.
Why is that?

thrand1

12-14-07, 09:24 AM

thrand1,
Thanks for the detailed response and suggestions. I appreciate it! The primary use of this setup will be HT related (almost close to 100%). We would like a compact sub (definitely not another end table!). Black box is ok as long as it is small. Our ceiling is 20 feet I believe. As for budget, the Seismic will be a little out of our range. I just wanted to know if it would be substantially better than the Ultracube to justify the price difference (>500).

In that large of a room, honestly, get as much sub as you can. That's a lot of volume for a sub to fill, and since you're looking for a sub primarily for HT, I assume you probably will want a lot of pressurization and some of that "chest thumping" bass. If you can swing the Seismic, I think it would offer a dramatic difference in performance.

I know I'll probably get crucified for mentioning this in this thread, but I honestly think some Paradigm subs are a little overpriced for the performance. If you would consider buying a different brand, I'd suggest contacting Ed Mullen at SVS. He posts on these forums or you can email techsupport@svsound.com and they respond fairly quickly. If you e-mail them the dimensions of your rooms- floorplans are a huge plus too- they will respond with specific recommendations, and I have rarely ever heard of them overselling. If anything, you can use their recommendations as a baseline see if the specs on the Seismic would match the sub they recommend.

I mainly recommend doing this just to ensure you don't spend money twice to get your end result. I think the UltraCube would be very underwhelming in a room of that size, and would follow the "measure twice, cut once" mantra to see what would be best.

If you want compact, I would look at the SVS SB12-Plus (I bet two if you could swing the budget would be even better), or consider a cylinder model like I mentioned before- very small footprint but comparable performance to their box-based brothers.

thrand1

12-14-07, 09:36 AM

Around $600, before Studio 100's = $2,500.
My local dealer is different now. They let me try multiple speakers at home for a month before I decided, of course, if any damage I will buy it -- over years they got quite a few business from my friends (you know, those rich people, love Bose; until they came to my place, wowed by my old NHT, they went on to buy $10,000 stuff .... they mainly watch TV).
I got to say, something is special about Studio 100's. I have been thinking about new speakers for a few years, none of them really make me "WANT" them. I am just a bit afraid, love at first listen, but not love in the long run.

If you're talking $600/pair, then the Paradigm Studios will be out of your price range...the Studio 20's MSRP at about $950/pair. If you want to stay in the same sort of tonality and sound quality match as the Studio 100's, then you'll be looking at the the 20's minimum probably.

The closest Paradigm floorstander at the price range you specify would be the Monitor 7's at about $700/pair, but I'm not sure they would offer the same experience that the Studio 100's offer. Honestly, if they offer the experience you are looking for, then your best options would be to either just bite the bullet and save up for them, or maybe start looking elsewhere.

Common price lists for Paradigms are available at the following links:
http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html
http://www.audioemporium.com/2008catalog.pdf

kelseyhorne

12-14-07, 11:47 AM

Hello

I can't seem to find a topic on this in this forum. I am looking to upgrade my current monitor 9 v4 to the news ones. Is there any users that have made a comparison on how these two differ?

thanks for the input

bb09

12-14-07, 11:58 AM

saz25

12-14-07, 01:53 PM

As a dealer I can tell you that our mark up from Paradigm is 40% period.

We get our incentives in the form of lower interest rates on floating inventory purchases or free/split shipping costs from plant to store. 10% retail discount is the norm, 15% is a fine deal and only family gets 20%!:eek:

Since you're a dealer, can you recommend an amp for the S6 and C3? I have an old (15+ years) Adcom GFA-555 driving the S6. Its sounds great, because that's all I heard with the S6. Would I notice a big improvement with another amp?

Also, does it make a difference the fact that I drive the C3 center with the amp built into my Denon 4802 A/V Receiver? Do I really need/want the same amp to drive the center and front/mains? My dealer told me it makes a difference.

What is your unbaised opinion?
Thanks in advance,
Steve

saz25

12-14-07, 01:57 PM

Steve, you and I probably bought our S6s and C3 from the same dealer off DWH. I've had my S6s for about 2 weeks now. The dealer originally suggested the Anthem A5 when I was considering the 100s, 690, etc. Then I compared the S6 to the 100s, the rest is history. I also bought the Studio ADPs to keep the cost down.

I have an Outlaw 990 and 5 M200 monoblocks, and considered upgrading the M200s to a better 5 channel amp, however I had just sold off most of my high end two channel gear and wasn't quite ready to let go. I still have the Outlaw setup that I use for HT, and share the S6s with a dedicated two channel setup consisting of a Classe CDP-10, Parasound P3 and A21. I can highly recommend the A21 from Parasound. It's a very good match with the S6s.

As a point of reference my last three amps in my two channel setup; Moscode 401HR, CJ Premier 140, and Parasound JC-1s.

Yes, we did both buy them from Ensemble. The S6/C3 sound great, though I am returning the S6 next week due to a cosmetic damage. The dealer is already in contact with Paradigm to work out the details. Bummer. I hope they send me a new set before I have to return mine.

As for the amp, I am still puzzled as to whether I will detect a noticable difference between my Adcom GFA-555 and a new amp. I don't want to spend $$ just for the sake of buying something. The dealer said they may be able to loan me another amp so I can see if I detect an improvement.

Thanks,
Steve

thrand1

12-14-07, 02:04 PM

Hey, I need some help with Surround speakers. I bought a pair of Paradigm Phantoms v.3 along with a CC-170 Center speaker a little over 5 years ago. Unfortunately, my surround speakers are still from my old JVC HTIB. I just bought a new Onkyo 605 reciever and I am thinking about upgrading my surrounds. I am not sure what would match my speakers since Paradigm doesn't make the Phantom line anymore. I saw the ADP-190's but I was hoping to spend about $250 for BOTH, not per speaker. Anyone know of anything comprable to the ADP-190's for less cost?

Worst case, I'll put the surrounds off until I can have a larger budget. My room is really small though, even the 190's might be too much....from TV to back wall is only like 10 ft.

A lot of people use Atom Monitors as rear surrounds in lieu of the ADP-190s. They're not dipoles, so sound will not be dispersed and placement may be more difficult, but they're the closest to your budget at about $260/pair. However, you still have to take into consideration how you will mount them (if you were planning to), and the additional costs of doing that.

Warpdrv

12-14-07, 02:04 PM

Yes, we did both buy them from Ensemble. The S6/C3 sound great, though I am returning the S6 next week due to a cosmetic damage. The dealer is already in contact with Paradigm to work out the details. Bummer. I hope they send me a new set before I have to return mine.

As for the amp, I am still puzzled as to whether I will detect a noticable difference between my Adcom GFA-555 and a new amp. I don't want to spend $$ just for the sake of buying something. The dealer said they may be able to loan me another amp so I can see if I detect an improvement.

Thanks,
Steve

I doubt that you would find a difference in SQ... save your money.. just hook that baby up and enjoy... Lots of people are extremely happy with the Adcom and Paradigm mix... and I am sure you will be one of them...

bb09

12-14-07, 02:13 PM

A lot of people use Atom Monitors as rear surrounds in lieu of the ADP-190s. They're not dipoles, so sound will not be dispersed and placement may be more difficult, but they're the closest to your budget at about $260/pair. However, you still have to take into consideration how you will mount them (if you were planning to), and the additional costs of doing that.

That's not a bad idea. I will check it out. Thanks!

djhamilton

12-14-07, 05:52 PM

I am trying to find a pair of Studio 20's V.3 in black ash to use as rear surrounds in my system. If anyone knows where I can get a good deal on a pair, please let me know.

My system:

Front: Studio 60's V.3
Center: Studio CC-570 V.3
Surrounds: Studio ADP-470's
Subs: 2 - SVS PB12 Ultras
Rear Surrounds: Pioneer S-DF3-K's (these are what i want to replace with studio 20's)

NAD M25 7-channel amp
Anthem AVM50 pre/pro ( I also have a Denon 3808ci that I use as a pre/pro )
Sony PS3 (for Blu-Ray)
Toshiba HD-A2 (for HD-DVD)
Oppo DV-981HD (for Multi-channel music)
SMS-1 sub equalizer
Sony VW50 1080p projector

Thanks for any help locating a pair of studio 20's!

thrand1

12-14-07, 06:24 PM

djhamilton

12-14-07, 06:41 PM

If you are looking for them used, Audiogon and eBay will be your best bet. Audiogon has a pair of v3's in cherry and a pair of v4's in rosenut.

eBay would also be a consideration.

If you are looking for new (just covering the bases here, sorry if already aware), no warranty on an online purchase is honored by Paradigm.

Closest dealer to your city:

SOUND FX
4451 BELLEVIEW AVE.
KANSAS CITY, MO
64111
816-753-7799

Suggested MSRP for Studio 20's new is about $950/pair according to
http://www.audioemporium.com/2008catalog.pdf

Yes, I have talked with Sound FX. Nice guys, but they don't discount at all and I just can't afford $950/pr. I am trying to find some good used ones. I have been looking on Audiogon, Videogon and ebay. haven't found any black V.3's that are in good shape yet. I will keep looking.

jkhome

12-14-07, 06:48 PM

Also some dealers have a trade in deal, where one may trade in a 20v3 for something bigger (that's how I upgraded from 20s to 60s).

Maybe call around and get on some contact lists.

MacBuster

12-14-07, 06:52 PM

Yes, I have talked with Sound FX. Nice guys, but they don't discount at all and I just can't afford $950/pr. I am trying to find some good used ones. I have been looking on Audiogon, Videogon and ebay. haven't found any black V.3's that are in good shape yet. I will keep looking.

Another is canuckaudiomart....

Maybe a canadian might be willing to ship them across the border to you.

caesar1

12-14-07, 07:03 PM

djhamilton

12-14-07, 07:21 PM

How do you mount studio 20s on the back wall? I thought they had to go on stands?

I have a video storage cabinet on my back wall of my theater.

http://web.mac.com/djhamilton872/Hamiltonsweb.com/Theater.html

fleaman

12-14-07, 09:40 PM

6spd
I only have the 450's in right now (auditioned many 750's) and the rest of the shipment have yet to come in. Having said that, the 450's even best the monitor 11's I have. I can't imagine what the 850's will do considering both pairs (with the last sale) are under what I paid for the Monitors. If I had to sum it up, I'd easily say the Rockets are better suited to be cross referenced with the Paradim Studio's than the Monitor line. The monitors though are more efficient but the Rockets are more laid back (again like the Studio line) yet have more detail in almost all areas. Some classical I listened to with high violins were harsh for me on the Paradigms, with the Rocket tweeter it sounds smooth and detailed to me. Toss in the looks and you have a killer deal.

Unless you get that on that sale they just had though I'd say you would need to cross-shop the two if you already have the Monitors. As we all know the Monitors are no slouch but my Emotiva IPS-1 is coming in a few days and I intend on having more fun with both sets of speakers for a bit and from what I understand the 850's are out of this world.

The easiest way to sum it up (IMO) is to copy craigsub's words when he said simply the ID companies are also the real deal. Definately give them a chance, but if you are not willing to, no shame in the Paradigm Monitors. We all know one mans cealing is anothers floor :) so everything I say (for any new people) needs to be taken with a lump of salt and let your own ear's decide for you.

I went the opposite way...returned my Rocket 760's.

I have Paradigm Studio 60's v.1 (original versions), was looking for something a tiny bit smoother up top with some more extended bottom and I thought the Rocket 760's would do it for me. I had been a longtime lurker in the AV123 forum since the 750 days.

Unfortunately when I got the Rocket set up (The 760 system with 200 center and 300 sides), it was a big shock as to the difference to my Studio 60's. I was expecting the 760's to be a little laid back, but they were WAY laid back from my 60's...so much so that I'd would have to increase my treble (shelving @ 10,000hz) about +6db on the 760's to get close to the Studio 60's :eek:

Now I know (and knew) that everyone was gonna say that the Studio 60's were hyped up top and the 760's were just flat and true, but I disagree. I'm actually a recording engineer and have 5 pairs of different pro-studio monitors (not consumer) and while they're all different in the top end, the Studio 60's compared to my pro monitors falling into the middle of the pack tonally in the top end. The 760's however were way laid back from anything I've heard....at least -3db or more down from my most laid back pro audio monitor I had.

And yes, I broke them in for a week too.

I ended up sending the whole rocket system back and they refunded everything except my shipping cost to them (live and learn). I found a used Paradigm studio 60 V.3 set locally and they fulfilled what I was looking for over my 60 v.1 set, a smoother top (and a little more open too), extended bottom and an overall better speaker than the 60 v.1's that they replaced.

Happy camper now :)

caesar1

12-14-07, 10:16 PM

I have a video storage cabinet on my back wall of my theater.

http://web.mac.com/djhamilton872/Hamiltonsweb.com/Theater.html

You'll need the THX setup for 7.1 then (so make sure you have a THX capable receiver). That's a little too close together for the dolby recommended spread on the back speakers.

tjmunro

12-14-07, 10:50 PM

Yes, we did both buy them from Ensemble. The S6/C3 sound great, though I am returning the S6 next week due to a cosmetic damage. The dealer is already in contact with Paradigm to work out the details. Bummer. I hope they send me a new set before I have to return mine.

As for the amp, I am still puzzled as to whether I will detect a noticable difference between my Adcom GFA-555 and a new amp. I don't want to spend $$ just for the sake of buying something. The dealer said they may be able to loan me another amp so I can see if I detect an improvement.

Thanks,
Steve

Sorry to hear about your S6s, hopefully you won't be without for long. I think the S6s are speakers you can improve your electronics around and continue to notice improvements. Fortunately they also sound very good with more modest gear. The only way to find out if a new amp is justifiable is to try out a few loaners. You might also consider adding an Outlaw M2200 for your C3 or try 3 M2200s for the fronts. Outlaw has a 30 day return policy.

djhamilton

12-14-07, 10:59 PM

You'll need the THX setup for 7.1 then (so make sure you have a THX capable receiver). That's a little too close together for the dolby recommended spread on the back speakers.

Check out this from the THX web site. Shows I actually have the rears too far apart. They are about 1' apart. I have a Anthem AVM50 (THX Ultra 2 certified pre/pro).

Warpdrv

12-15-07, 01:57 AM

I went the opposite way...returned my Rocket 760's.

I have Paradigm Studio 60's v.1 (original versions), was looking for something a tiny bit smoother up top with some more extended bottom and I thought the Rocket 760's would do it for me. I had been a longtime lurker in the AV123 forum since the 750 days.

Unfortunately when I got the Rocket set up (The 760 system with 200 center and 300 sides), it was a big shock as to the difference to my Studio 60's. I was expecting the 760's to be a little laid back, but they were WAY laid back from my 60's...so much so that I'd would have to increase my treble (shelving @ 10,000hz) about +6db on the 760's to get close to the Studio 60's :eek:

Now I know (and knew) that everyone was gonna say that the Studio 60's were hyped up top and the 760's were just flat and true, but I disagree. I'm actually a recording engineer and have 5 pairs of different pro-studio monitors (not consumer) and while they're all different in the top end, the Studio 60's compared to my pro monitors falling into the middle of the pack tonally in the top end. The 760's however were way laid back from anything I've heard....at least -3db or more down from my most laid back pro audio monitor I had.

And yes, I broke them in for a week too.

I ended up sending the whole rocket system back and they refunded everything except my shipping cost to them (live and learn). I found a used Paradigm studio 60 V.3 set locally and they fulfilled what I was looking for over my 60 v.1 set, a smoother top (and a little more open too), extended bottom and an overall better speaker than the 60 v.1's that they replaced.

Happy camper now :)

Thank you Fleaman... I appreciate your short but direct and to the point review of the Rockets... I have always been curious about the Rocket sound compared to the Studio's... My ears are very adept to every little nuace of recording as well, and find my Studio 100's .v4 very accurate, clean and very much distortion free especially at closer to ref levels or above..

Curious as to whether you have had a chance to check out the .v4's as the high end was even opened up a touch more then even the .v3's, smoother.

Funny I picked up a pair of these Insignia - 6-1/2" bookshelves from best buy for my son... muddiest thing I have ever heard... I didn't think anyone could make a speaker sound so aweful.. I don't think I could add enough midrange or treble to make it sound somewhat good... I know where your coming from..