Reprint of one of prev posts

Paradigms and amplification.

First Some background

Previously my 2CH sys consisted of a Rotel RSX 1055 receiver (5 X 75 watts), a pair of Studio 60V2 and s Servo 15 V2 sub.
I was somewhat satisfied with the above. Its sound was a little laid back but reasonably detailed. Soundstaging was good and dynamics were decent for a smaller speaker.
My first upgrade was to a Rotel RMB 1075 power amp (125 X 5). I kept the RSX 1055 and used it as a pre-pro.
This was a disappointment. I thought there was only marginal improvement.
So I sold the 1075 and went back to Receiver for a while.
Next upgrade was to Studio 100 V3 from the 60 V2s.
Very nice improvement especially in the mid and high frequencies.
Next I bought an Aragon 8008ST amp (200 X 2 into 8 & 400 X 2 into 4)
Wow. This was probably the biggest improvement to date. I was still using the 1055 as a pre-pro but the new amp really made the 100s shine. Dynamics were hugely improved along with imaging and soundstage. All aspects of the sound were transformed.
With the Studio 60s the separate amp (rotel rmb 1075) made little difference over the receiver alone so I’m going to draw some possible conclusions from this.

-The Studio 60s V2 put such a minimal load on amplification that a decent receiver will sound as good as an Ok separate amp.
-The Rotel 1075 was not an OK amp but rather a dud.
-The Studio 100 V3s present a load too heavy for Rotel 1055 receiver and a separate amp is therefore needed.

For the record.
If you are using a receiver to power Studio 100 V3s then you are not getting anywhere near the potential of those speakers.
Try to beg, borrow or steal a good 2CH power amp and try it with the 100s. You will be stunned at the difference over a receiver. I promise.

Steve

I have Studio 100 v3 with an Anthem PVA-7. Couldn't be more happier. Sounds excellent in 2ch and 5.1. I can't wait until I get my Rega Planar 3 hooked up to my AVM30 :)

Recently acquired Studio 100v2's. Love'em...

Just out of curiosity, anyone have links to modifications or tweaks for Paradigm speakers?

Can they be made even better with x-over mods etc.?

For the record.
If you are using a receiver to power Studio 100 V3s then you are not getting anywhere near the potential of those speakers.
Try to beg, borrow or steal a good 2CH power amp and try it with the 100s. You will be stunned at the difference over a receiver. I promise.

Steve

Would the Arcam AVP700 and P1000 combo be enough to power the Studio 100 V3's?

I'm curious if anyone can comment as to how significant an upgrade it is to go from the studio CC v2 to the CC-470?

Considering some of the postings I've read of people comparing the 470 to the 570, I assume that the CC v2 to the CC-570 would definitely be a major upgrade.

Hey guys--

I need some help in deciding if I should get the adp-470's or the studio 20's as surround and even more importantly, where the heck i put them in my odd shaped room. Attached is a rough sketch of what it looks like. THe TV is at an angle facing the southwest corner. I've got 10' ceilings.

Thanks in advance.

I've got studio 20's and a cc470 so far.

Reprint of one of prev posts

Paradigms and amplification.

First Some background

Previously my 2CH sys consisted of a Rotel RSX 1055 receiver (5 X 75 watts), a pair of Studio 60V2 and s Servo 15 V2 sub.

Next I bought an Aragon 8008ST amp (200 X 2 into 8 & 400 X 2 into 4)
Wow. This was probably the biggest improvement to date.

Steve

I noticed the same; I was originally using a Rotel 1055 as a pre/pro, feeding an Aragon 8008BB amp. When I auditioned my new Studio 20v3s at home, there was a large difference in using the Aragon, as opposed to the amp section of the Rotel.

I am now using the Rotel for the Paradigms, and the Aragon on a pair of Magnepans. I wanted to have the same size/brand amp on all my HT speakers. But sometimes on certain material, the Rotel makes the Studio's bass too muddy. This is a trade-off because I feel the Rotel/Studio combination is a bit more forgiving on crappy HT material (like what is offered on cable), and highly intense stuff, like the lobby scene in "The Matrix".

I really wish the Rotel had a "main-in loop" so that an EQ could be added to the signal chain, I don't feel adding an EQ for HT is too much of a "sin" as compared to Hi-end audio.

Have you had any, what I feel is "dc offset" problems with your Rotel/Aragon combination? I had a "popping" noise whenever I switched inputs, or when the Rotel's digital processor locked into a new signal, (even after the so-called firmware "fix"). Rotel service blamed it on the Aragon's amp design. (Personally I don't buy this). Running out of the Rotel amp sections, no popping is heard.

badassfajita,
I think you're going to have to answer the surround speaker question yourself by trying them. There seem to be two camps here. One that prefers the 20's (myself included), and the other the ADP470's. I originally purchased the ADP470's, then exchanged them for 20's. It seems to be a personal preference thing. The 20's are more clear (good for music), and the 470's are more dispersed (better for movies, but I still prefer the 20's).

For speaker placement, the 20's should be put on stands to both sides of your seating positions. The ADP470's should be mounted on walls above the listening position, but could also be placed on stands.

gekko,

My Studio 100 v3s improved a LOT after I added a 200w/channel Rotel amplifier. They were very good already driven by my Yamaha receiver (RX-Z1) which is rated at 130w/channel.

The highs were the most noticeable improvement. They are much clearer, and the bass is tighter but not louder. I listen to music a lot and the amp was well worth the extra $$. I think the 100s need a lot of power.

Robert

gekko,

My Studio 100 v3s improved a LOT after I added a 200w/channel Rotel amplifier. They were very good already driven by my Yamaha receiver (RX-Z1) which is rated at 130w/channel.

The highs were the most noticeable improvement. They are much clearer, and the bass is tighter but not louder. I listen to music a lot and the amp was well worth the extra $$. I think the 100s need a lot of power.

Robert

The P1000 is rated at 135W/Ch. I think I might try another amp.

The P1000 is rated at 135W/Ch. I think I might try another amp.


135 wpc might be fine for you depending on your volume requirements. I'd consider what the 4-ohm rating is and if it's twice, or nearly twice, the 8-ohm rating it would be a good indication of a "high current" amp as vague as that term may be. Even better, if the 4-ohm rating doubles or nearly doubles and the amp is stable at 2 ohms it's probably got the "oomph" needed to drive the Studio 100's.

You know that when driving the same set of speakers, amplifier A must be (roughly) 10 times more powerful than amplifier B to sound twice as loud?

So the point is that in terms of sheer volume, a good 200 watt amp will not be much louder than an good 135 watt amp. The biggest difference will be in available power below clipping to better satisfy peak demands. May not be the exactly right terms, but hopefully the point comes across.

Have you had any, what I feel is "dc offset" problems with your Rotel/Aragon combination? I had a "popping" noise whenever I switched inputs, or when the Rotel's digital processor locked into a new signal, (even after the so-called firmware "fix"). Rotel service blamed it on the Aragon's amp design. (Personally I don't buy this). Running out of the Rotel amp sections, no popping is heard.

I bought my Aragon used off a fellow in Quebec. When I told him I was going to use a 1055 as a pre-pro he mentioned to me that he was using a 1066 pre-pro and noticed the same issues you are talking about. The 1055 uses the exact same pre as the 1066 but has added amps. He said he thought the amp may be at fault so he sent to Mondial and had it checked. It recieved a clean bill of health so he felt he had grounding issues at home or issues with his 1066. Wasn't sure because he did not notice any problems when using the 1066 with other components. He wanted me to know everything before I purchased. Nice guy.
When I got the Aragon home I did not notice any issues but to be honest I did not do a lot of switching. I would usually sit down to watch a movie or listen to music but not much switching back and forth. Soon after I upgraded to a seperate pre. (wanted to seperate my 2CH from my HT since I had all the ingredients for a very good 2CH sys which is more important to me than audio on movies.)
If you ask me it has to do with the Rotel. Not sure whats cauing it but I had read similar complaints here.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=20

BTW The above link is the best site for Rotel info that I have found.

135 wpc might be fine for you depending on your volume requirements. I'd consider what the 4-ohm rating is and if it's twice, or nearly twice, the 8-ohm rating it would be a good indication of a "high current" amp as vague as that term may be. Even better, if the 4-ohm rating doubles or nearly doubles and the amp is stable at 2 ohms it's probably got the "oomph" needed to drive the Studio 100's.

You know that when driving the same set of speakers, amplifier A must be (roughly) 10 times more powerful than amplifier B to sound twice as loud?

So the point is that in terms of sheer volume, a good 200 watt amp will not be much louder than an good 135 watt amp. The biggest difference will be in available power below clipping to better satisfy peak demands. May not be the exactly right terms, but hopefully the point comes across.

I agree and would like to add that the size of the room makes all the difference as well.
For the record. After using the Aragon for a while I hooked up an older MF 85 W/pc amp I wanted to sell for testing.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1135532813


It sounded great. Perhaps better than the Aragon but just did not have the reserves to drive the 100s in my room at the volumes I wanted. It would drive them but lose its composure as I was approaching the volume I desired. This is a very high quality 2/ch amp but 85w/pc was not enough.The same amp had plenty with my studio 20s and 60s

BTW The above link is the best site for Rotel info that I have found.

Agree, that where I found out about all the "fixes" and how to load the upgrades from the net to my receiver.

135 wpc might be fine for you depending on your volume requirements. I'd consider what the 4-ohm rating is and if it's twice, or nearly twice, the 8-ohm rating it would be a good indication of a "high current" amp as vague as that term may be. Even better, if the 4-ohm rating doubles or nearly doubles and the amp is stable at 2 ohms it's probably got the "oomph" needed to drive the Studio 100's.

You know that when driving the same set of speakers, amplifier A must be (roughly) 10 times more powerful than amplifier B to sound twice as loud?

So the point is that in terms of sheer volume, a good 200 watt amp will not be much louder than an good 135 watt amp. The biggest difference will be in available power below clipping to better satisfy peak demands. May not be the exactly right terms, but hopefully the point comes across.

Good advice....thanks for that Whoaru...

Hello all , I need some thoughts on my rear speakers. I MAY upgrade .
My Rear speakers are cinemas V1 . they are about 7Ft high and my couch is agains the back wall that they are mounted to . I do have them angeled down & firing into the center of the room (as much as my premier MB 60 will alow)
Will a pair of Cinema ADPs work better in this set up OR would I just be better off getting the Premier MB 40 & angle the V.1 more to the listening area ? I am more Concerned with 5.1 movies over Multi audio .
Pleas have a look & the pix & let me know
Oh yea the the left rear speakers is open into dining room & the right speaker is in the corner like you see in the Pix
Thanks ~

Whoa! I don't know how many of you have experienced this, but I recently moved my front speakers (Studio 60's) and the sound improvement was very noticably improved. For the last 6 months they were a couple inches to the sides and parallel to my RPTV (Hitachi 65") and enclosed equipment rack. Now they're about 10~12 inches away and slightly toed in. The bass seems tighter and deeper and the highs have more air. The sound was good before, but now... Oh man! :D

Give your fronts some room to breath. You'll be glad you did.

hey src, you might want to also try pulling them a little forward of the tv set or a/v cabinet. that should give a more complete full soundstage where the speakers are in front or ahead of the leading edge where the tv a/v cabinet take up space.

Whoa! I don't know how many of you have experienced this, but I recently moved my front speakers (Studio 60's) and the sound improvement was very noticably improved. For the last 6 months they were a couple inches to the sides and parallel to my RPTV (Hitachi 65") and enclosed equipment rack. Now they're about 10~12 inches away and slightly toed in. The bass seems tighter and deeper and the highs have more air. The sound was good before, but now... Oh man! :D

Give your fronts some room to breath. You'll be glad you did.

You're right, they need lots of room to breathe, a buddy of mine has 60s with a big 70" Sony LCD between them. He was experimenting and covered the TV with a blanket - he noticed that the soundstage was much better as a result. He now regrets not getting a projector b/c not only would it have been cheaper, his SQ would be better.

Finally got my Arcam AVP 700 and Velo DD12 last nite. Even with my cheap Panasonic DVD player - music and movies sounded sweet on my S2s and C3. Its gonna take me a while to tune the sub properly for my room, so I'm looking forward to even better sound when everything breaking in.

Mikecy

I agree that studio too close to wall will NOT image as well.The studio 20 sounded good out of box, or so I remember, Same true with the 100V3

I experimented with 100 near then further away from walls and found 8 foot apart two feet minumum from wall best in my setup. Point them toward listening position.

200 watts per channel works for me. I just picked up a AVR300 for 10 day demo
Will see how they are with S2.


Breaking in the S2 at first the Sig S2 are straining ,but after 50 hours breakin they sound smoother and smoother. Is this what everyone is experiencing??



RJ

No thoughts on my last post Re Rears ??

rjsquirrel: when you say the S2s were "straining" were you listening at high volumes? What type of music were you listening to? I haven't experienced this yet, but I can't say I've pushed it higher than 70 dbs (on my AVP 700). I'm astounded by the bass that the C3 can put out - almost sound like a sub!

Sony XBR, I use a Veloydyne HGS sub in the right corner.

Velodyne rocks! BUT, with all Signature Series, why not get a nice pair of Signature SERVO 15s!! Yum! :-D

I've heard a nice all Signature Series setup running 2 [U]sets of ADPs and 2 Servos at my local store (Definitive Audio). The Eagles (DTS) never sounded better! haha.

My setup is in my sig, but I'll post it anyway..cuz its fun :-)

Starter setup:
CENTER: CC-350
L/R: Mini Monitor
SL/SR: ADP-100
SB: CC-170
SUB: Velodyne VRP-1000
A/V Reciever: Marantz SR-4400
DVD-Player: Pioneer DV-575a (Universial Player: DVD, DVD-A, SACD, MP3)
Media Center: Modded Xbox running Xbox Media Center Networked to PC (0.5 Terrabyte of Media)
TV: 1998 Panasonic 27" Flat CRT
Room: Too big for my budget :-P - Set up in basement. Concrete floors and concrete half way up the walls (Paratially underground) - Sub Sounds GOOD!
Other stuff: 1978 DUAL 1250 Turntable, Pioneer Laserdisc Player

The Servo subs definitely rock, and for HT they'll shake your drwyall screws loose, but since I listen to about 50/50 music and HT, I decided to go with the Velodyne DD12 since I can switch from one to the other at the press of a button. I can conveneintly go from Slam! to tight accurate bass.
my 2 cents

Do you use any other stands for Studio 20 beside premier J-23 ? It costs awful a lot of money ($300). I'm not concern on the sound aspect but on getting the speaker + stand knock off from my 2.5 years old girl. Beside not having mounting hole for Studio 20, the S series stand share many aspects for J series but much cheaper. Any thoughts ?

Thanks,

jC!, My room isn't all that large, hence the S2's, C3, and ADP's. The sub is well integrated with the Sig's and my size room, and sound great ;)

Do you use any other stands for Studio 20 beside premier J-23 ? It costs awful a lot of money ($300). I'm not concern on the sound aspect but on getting the speaker + stand knock off from my 2.5 years old girl. Beside not having mounting hole for Studio 20, the S series stand share many aspects for J series but much cheaper. Any thoughts ?

Thanks,

With a 2 year old you may want to go with the J stand with the ability to screw the speaker to the stand. It will take a pretty good bump to knock the speaker over either way.

Thanks! Does anyone has J-60 stand ? I would like to know if it has hole for mounting the Studio 20.

A CDP is my next toy and I'm debating btwn an Arcam unit, or maybe the Ah! Njoe Tjoeb, or maybe a Shanling, decisions, decisions. Is there a particular Arcam unit that you would recommend?

well, I finally found an Aha! Njoe Tjoeb cdp on the used market. My first impression is that the soundstage is much more holographic, 3 D like. I was listening to Jazz at the Pawnshop and it felt like you were right there in the jazz club. I finally know what the fuss is all about with this CD. It also imparts a nice warm, tubey sound. It also came with some NOS Russian tubes, can't wait to try the Ruskies as well. Mikeyc has a big smile on his face this morning :D

Thanks! Does anyone has J-60 stand ? I would like to know if it has hole for mounting the Studio 20.

never heard of the J-60s but I have the J29 and J18 and they definitely have holes for mounting the speakers.

Thanks! Does anyone has J-60 stand ? I would like to know if it has hole for mounting the Studio 20.
The J29 stands are made for the Studio 20's. They place the tweeter at the advisable listening level (ie, your ear) when you are seated. They have screw holes and hardware to perfectly match the 20's. Never heard of the J-60's.

Wow, a lot good info in this thread. Ok, well, it's probably been asked and answered, so I apologise for having to do so again if it has.

I'm getting ready to upgrade my speakers. I'm curious to know if I'd be disappointed in the Studio 100's?

I want the Signature S8's, C5, and ADP's, but due to the insane amounts of cash I've been spending on upgrades lately, they simply are not an option. I guess that's what really got me down, cause I've heard some people here say that the sigs are better. Which makes perfect since really, I mean look at the difference in cost. Heck it would be a shame if they weren't better for that kind of a price difference.

I probably could go with the Sigs if I went with the S4's, but I don't know if that'd be worth it? I mean would I be better off going with the S4's over the Studio 100's, or vice versa? I'm lost here, and am in real need of help.

Thanks



Gunz :confused:

Yes, I have been thinking of demoing the sigs, as I may love them and want to upgrade, but no cash...and my girlfriend would not like that :p Currently, I have the following in my setup:

Servo-15
Studio 100s version 3
Studio CC-470
Studio 80s version 1

They are being powered by and EAD PowerMaster 1000 and I have a Lexicon MC-12 balanced pre/pro

I love the Studio series; especially for home theater...I did a blind test with the B&W 600 and 700 series (got the dealer to randomly switch speakers with my eyes closed) and chose the Paradigms...they seemed less laid back and more lively...but that's just my preference..the B&Ws were also great.

Yes, I have been thinking of demoing the sigs, as I may love them and want to upgrade, but no cash...and my girlfriend would not like that :p Currently, I have the following in my setup:

Servo-15
Studio 100s version 3
Studio CC-470
Studio 80s version 1

They are being powered by and EAD PowerMaster 1000 and I have a Lexicon MC-12 balanced pre/pro

I love the Studio series; especially for home theater...I did a blind test with the B&W 600 and 700 series (got the dealer to randomly switch speakers with my eyes closed) and chose the Paradigms...they seemed less laid back and more lively...but that's just my preference..the B&Ws were also great.

I'm guessing Paradigm is also the better value in Canada compared to B&W?

I am looking to get more Umfh out of my Studio 40's V.3 I am powering them with a denon 3805 & want to add an 2 ch amp but space is TIGHT would a parasound Zamp be a good choise or since its only 45 W I am better off utlizing the denons power ?

Hi everyone,

After a long battle with mixing up my HT system I have finally decided to go with the Paradigm Reference Inwall solution along with a few other components:

6 x Paradigm Reference SA-25 Inwalls
2 x Paradigm Seismic 12 Subwoofers
1 x Anthem A5 Statement Amplifier

My home theatre is in the process of getting framed and I can't wait to hear the Paradigms. I wanted a system that was virtually out of sight but powerful and I'm sure this one will.

Cheers

L

I recently purchased a Denon 3806 receiver, a SVS PB-10 sub, ADP-170 surrounds and a CC-270 center. I using my (approx) 12 year old paradigm 7SEMKIII's for the mains. I expected that perhaps the old speakers that I'm using for the mains would not sound that good compared to the new center and surrounds. However, the problem i'm having is I'm not satisfied with the center, The dialogue all sounds muffled or muddy. The dialogue when coming only from the mains sounds natural and clear. Has anyone done a comparison test between the CC-270 and CC-370. If so is there a significant difference? What are peoples impressions of these. Also the CC-270 that the store sold me is Ver 3., they are ordering a ver 4 for me and are going to exchange mine when it comes in. Is there a significant difference between ver 3 and 4? Thanks.

I'm guessing Paradigm is also the better value in Canada compared to B&W?

Oh yeah...the value is way better here than B&W..was able to get a great deal..but no deal for the B&W...I did notice this though...if one uses a really good amp, with lots of power the B&W sound much better...the sound is better the greater the wattage.

Hi everyone,

After a long battle with mixing up my HT system I have finally decided to go with the Paradigm Reference Inwall solution along with a few other components:

6 x Paradigm Reference SA-25 Inwalls
2 x Paradigm Seismic 12 Subwoofers
1 x Anthem A5 Statement Amplifier

My home theatre is in the process of getting framed and I can't wait to hear the Paradigms. I wanted a system that was virtually out of sight but powerful and I'm sure this one will.

Cheers

L
Congrats! I just installed a pair of SA-15R in-ceilings yesterday for my surrounds. I'm extremely happy with them. I was a little worried because of everything I've read about not using in-ceiling speakers, but these diffuse sound very well. I can't really tell the sound is coming from the ceiling, it seems like it comes from the sides. I'm glad I decided to go with them instead of some Atoms mounted to the ceiling, the flush-mounted speakers look so clean!

Congrats! I just installed a pair of SA-15R in-ceilings yesterday for my surrounds. I'm extremely happy with them. I was a little worried because of everything I've read about not using in-ceiling speakers, but these diffuse sound very well. I can't really tell the sound is coming from the ceiling, it seems like it comes from the sides. I'm glad I decided to go with them instead of some Atoms mounted to the ceiling, the flush-mounted speakers look so clean!
I also installed a pair of SA-15Rs recently and am extremely pleased with how they blend with my Studio 60s and CC 470. (I'm currently in the market to upgrade my subwoofer.) I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that they totally sound like they're coming from the sides, rather than the ceiling, but the overall listening experience is as seamless as 5.1 gets. The main point, though, is that they're as good a pair of surrounds as you'll find for the price (and way above), they're good on the aesthetic front and they offer a seamless surround experience for multi-channel music and video.

Congrats! I just installed a pair of SA-15R in-ceilings yesterday for my surrounds. I'm extremely happy with them. I was a little worried because of everything I've read about not using in-ceiling speakers, but these diffuse sound very well. I can't really tell the sound is coming from the ceiling, it seems like it comes from the sides. I'm glad I decided to go with them instead of some Atoms mounted to the ceiling, the flush-mounted speakers look so clean!

Inwalls have been precieved as a risk when compared to the floorstanding speakers. I am presently working with one of the staff over at Paradigm that designed the inwalls and I think he is more excited than I am on how they are going to sound. Also, with the inwalls, when I eventually sell my home the value will probably increase more than the speakers are worth. I will be advertising my house to include a custom inwall basement theatre setup! This setup will be appealing to both the guys and gals because it has the power for the men and the "invisibility" for the wemon. I can handle that, buy some serious speakers and get paid at the end for using them :)

L

So a couple months ago I decide to buy Paradigm Signatures for my new HT. A couple S4s, four ADPS and a C3. The first dealer I visit offers me a very low discount so I walk and go to another not so local (1+ Hour drive) dealer who offers me a reasonable discount but indicates the S4s are going to take 6 weeks. Actually the first dealer also indicated the S4s would take 6 weeks.

5 weeks ago I pulled the trigger and ordered the Signatures. Today I called and asked the dealer to find out if the speakers are going to ship next week and he said he would call Paradigm and get back to me. He called back and told me the speakers will ship in 6 weeks. Huh?

So I told him I ordered them 5 weeks ago with a 6 week lead time. How could they still be 6 weeks out? I told him to call me tomorrow with better news or I was going to cancel the entire order. I have nothing to lose since Im going to have to wait for 6 weeks either way and at least I can try a third dealer who perhaps is a bit more reputable.

Any other advice?

Thanks

John

So a couple months ago I decide to buy Paradigm Signatures for my new HT. A couple S4s, four ADPS and a C3. The first dealer I visit offers me a very low discount so I walk and go to another not so local (1+ Hour drive) dealer who offers me a reasonable discount but indicates the S4s are going to take 6 weeks. Actually the first dealer also indicated the S4s would take 6 weeks.

5 weeks ago I pulled the trigger and ordered the Signatures. Today I called and asked the dealer to find out if the speakers are going to ship next week and he said he would call Paradigm and get back to me. He called back and told me the speakers will ship in 6 weeks. Huh?

So I told him I ordered them 5 weeks ago with a 6 week lead time. How could they still be 6 weeks out? I told him to call me tomorrow with better news or I was going to cancel the entire order. I have nothing to lose since Im going to have to wait for 6 weeks either way and at least I can try a third dealer who perhaps is a bit more reputable.

Any other advice?

Thanks

John

Yes
Tell all the name of the dealer so no one else gets lampooned.

So a couple months ago I decide to buy Paradigm Signatures for my new HT. A couple S4s, four ADPS and a C3. The first dealer I visit offers me a very low discount so I walk and go to another not so local (1+ Hour drive) dealer who offers me a reasonable discount but indicates the S4s are going to take 6 weeks. Actually the first dealer also indicated the S4s would take 6 weeks.

5 weeks ago I pulled the trigger and ordered the Signatures. Today I called and asked the dealer to find out if the speakers are going to ship next week and he said he would call Paradigm and get back to me. He called back and told me the speakers will ship in 6 weeks. Huh?

So I told him I ordered them 5 weeks ago with a 6 week lead time. How could they still be 6 weeks out? I told him to call me tomorrow with better news or I was going to cancel the entire order. I have nothing to lose since Im going to have to wait for 6 weeks either way and at least I can try a third dealer who perhaps is a bit more reputable.

Any other advice?

Thanks

John


That really sucks. I wonder why they are on back order. I got my whole setup in 3days. What finish did you choose?

I chose the Cherry finish. Which I believe is the "standard" finish.

The dealer I ordered from is Sound Perfection in Palo Alto, California. Perhaps Im taking my purchase too seriously but I would have thought that buying $8,000 ($10,000 inc the sub which I already have) worth of speakers would have resulted a comensurate level of service. When they called today and told me the speakers would be shipped in 6 weeks, they said it as if it was no big deal. As if I should be happy just to get an update.

I spoke to another dealer this afternoon and they confirmed the 6 week lead time but added that they think it would probably be longer. They offered to lend me a couple S4s from the floor until mine showed up. The rest of the speakers could be here in a week or two.

My current dealer also offered to lend me 2 S4s until mine arrive but I just dont trust them any more.

Although I could have had my C3 and ADPs already, I requested that they all ship together because I read 6 weeks ago in this thread that one persons Signatures arrived with significantly different cherry finishes between the speakers. I told my dealer to just have them all ship at the same time to hopefully avoid this potential problem. Do you think this is an issue? Im concerned about it if I take the loaners only to get mine 2 years from now and they dont match the others.

Ive been trying to figure out why the S4s are back ordered but no other model is. I havent looked at it in detail but Im guessing that the components of the S4 (perhaps not the electronics) are the same as other signature models.

Does anyone have a contact at Paradigm that would know whats really going on?

John

I spoke to another dealer this afternoon and they confirmed the 6 week lead time but added that they think it would probably be longer. They offered to lend me a couple S4s from the floor until mine showed up. The rest of the speakers could be here in a week or two.

My current dealer also offered to lend me 2 S4s until mine arrive but I just dont trust them any more.

John

Your current dealer told you six weeks, at 5 weeks out they checked with P-digm and were told another six weeks. You confirmed this with another dealer and you don't trust the original dealer????

Sounds like the problem is with P-digm and not the dealer.

Your current dealer told you six weeks, at 5 weeks out they checked with P-digm and were told another six weeks. You confirmed this with another dealer and you don't trust the original dealer????

Sounds like the problem is with P-digm and not the dealer.

Well it might be both but my problem with my dealer is two fold. First off, they should have been checking before I called. Second, when I did call they acted as if 6 weeks out from today was perfectly OK. There was no "I have some bad news", no "let me try to call someone else I know at Paradigm to fix this". Nothing. Just "they will ship in 6 weeks". Almost like they didnt even know that I ordered them 5 weeks ago. They also required a 50% deposit which I think is a bit excessive for a 6 week wait.

I did confirm the 6 week lead time with another dealer but that is 6 weeks from today assuming you order today. Not 6 weeks from today assuming you ordered 5 weeks ago.

In either case, there is a problem. Perhaps its with Paradigm which wouldnt surprise me. Im going to look at Triad Golds tomorrow and if they sound good, Im going to cancel my order for the Paradigms and get the Triads.

I have a feeling that something is going on that Paradigm and/or my dealer are not being honest about and that is an uneasy feeling when you are dumping $8K in speakers. Wouldnt you think that they would offer some type of explanation? Material shortage, etc? None! Nada. Just "the speakers will ship in 6 weeks". Now be happy and go away and dont call us again for 6 weeks (at which time we will tell you they will ship in 6 weeks).

I aplogize for the attitude but Ive been working on my first HT since May and its now complete, less the speakers. I have been watching the calendar thinking I would get to give it a test drive next week. Thats not going to happen.

John

I'm getting ready to upgrade my speakers. I'm curious to know if I'd be disappointed in the Studio 100's?

I want the Signature S8's, C5, and ADP's, but due to the insane amounts of cash I've been spending on upgrades lately, they simply are not an option. I guess that's what really got me down, cause I've heard some people here say that the sigs are better. Which makes perfect since really, I mean look at the difference in cost. Heck it would be a shame if they weren't better for that kind of a price difference.

I probably could go with the Sigs if I went with the S4's, but I don't know if that'd be worth it? I mean would I be better off going with the S4's over the Studio 100's, or vice versa? I'm lost here, and am in real need of help.

Thanks



Gunz :confused:

Gunz -

As an owner of the S4s, if you plan to run them with a sub, I don't think you'll be disappointed vs. the Studio 100's. However, the Studio series offer better performance for the dollar. Sure the drivers may be slightly better in the Signature series, but I assure you that a good portion of the price difference comes from the cabinetry. The curved, veneered and lacquered cabinets of the Signature series doesn't come cheap. Unlike the Studio Series cabinets, which are assembled in-house at Paradigm, the Signature cabinets are imported from Denmark.

In the end I think you'll get 90% of the performance from the Studio line vs the Signature line, so if the aesthetic quality and workmanship of the cabinets isn't important, then I would go with the Studio line.

- Tim

I recently purchased a Denon 3806 receiver, a SVS PB-10 sub, ADP-170 surrounds and a CC-270 center. I using my (approx) 12 year old paradigm 7SEMKIII's for the mains. I expected that perhaps the old speakers that I'm using for the mains would not sound that good compared to the new center and surrounds. However, the problem i'm having is I'm not satisfied with the center, The dialogue all sounds muffled or muddy. The dialogue when coming only from the mains sounds natural and clear. Has anyone done a comparison test between the CC-270 and CC-370. If so is there a significant difference? What are peoples impressions of these. Also the CC-270 that the store sold me is Ver 3., they are ordering a ver 4 for me and are going to exchange mine when it comes in. Is there a significant difference between ver 3 and 4? Thanks.

I think the problem you are running into is due to the horizontal Woofer-Tweeter-Woofer layout of the speaker. Any center speaker that uses this driver configuration is bound to sound unnatural if listened to even just slightly off axis. You may have to go with the 570, which adds a midrange driver below the tweeter. Placing the mid below the tweeter largely eliminates the off-axis frequency response problems. However, you may be able to get better performance out of your current center channel simply by moving it. If the speaker is in a cabinet, or well above or below ear level, this could be causing the problem. Try putting it in free space and tilting it to point at your seated ear height.

Good luck,

- Tim

I have a feeling that something is going on that Paradigm and/or my dealer are not being honest about and that is an uneasy feeling when you are dumping $8K in speakers. Wouldnt you think that they would offer some type of explanation? Material shortage, etc? None! Nada. Just "the speakers will ship in 6 weeks". Now be happy and go away and dont call us again for 6 weeks (at which time we will tell you they will ship in 6 weeks).

I aplogize for the attitude but Ive been working on my first HT since May and its now complete, less the speakers. I have been watching the calendar thinking I would get to give it a test drive next week. Thats not going to happen.

John

IMO, I don't think you're being unreasonable. I understand what you mean how the dealers can be very nonchalant (sp?) in these situations. I really think it shouldn't matter how much you spent, and I certainly wouldn't expect special attention, but the level of service based on my experience is not anywhere near top notch. I sometimes feel this is especially true when they know you really have no local dealer options if you want to stick with the same manufacturer. Hang tight dude...

Studio 40 in front
CC-570 for center
2 Servo-15 V.2 for bass

I spoke to Paradigm today and they told me that they were waiting for parts from a supplier and that is what has caused the delays with the S4s. I asked if the parts have arrived yet and I was told no but they believe the parts will arrive in time to ship S4s in 6 weeks.

For what its worth, they believed the same thing 6 weeks ago.

Now Im torn between waiting 6+ weeks for speakers or looking for some other speakers. Im heading out today to listen to Triad Golds. Do any of you Paradigm owners have any suggestions on similar speakers?

Im looking for comparable speakers to the Signature S4s, C3 and ADPs.

Thanks

John

John,

Check out Totems. They are outstanding. If you like Paras, you'll love these. I ultimately decided on the Para Studios because they were a little cheaper. But, they are worth a listen.

Totem (http://www.totemacoustic.com/english/index_eng.htm)

One side note -- they are rated at 4ohm. You'll need a serious receiver/amp to drive them well.

Steve

John,

Check out Totems. They are oustanding. If you like Paras, you'll love these. I ultimately decided on the Para Studios because they were a little cheaper. But, they are worth a listen.
Steve


Ditto on the Totems, definately worth a look see.

JohnntRose, any word RE S8 shipping delays?

I spoke to Paradigm today and they told me that they were waiting for parts from a supplier and that is what has caused the delays with the S4s. I asked if the parts have arrived yet and I was told no but they believe the parts will arrive in time to ship S4s in 6 weeks.

For what its worth, they believed the same thing 6 weeks ago.

Now Im torn between waiting 6+ weeks for speakers or looking for some other speakers. Im heading out today to listen to Triad Golds. Do any of you Paradigm owners have any suggestions on similar speakers?

Im looking for comparable speakers to the Signature S4s, C3 and ADPs.

Thanks

John


Try the M&K ...S-150PKTHX ULTRA Self Powered System :cool:

JohnntRose, any word RE S8 shipping delays?

Only the S4s (in cherry) are backordered which makes me believe that its the cabinets that are holding them up. I read in a thread here that the Signature cabinets come from Europe. Finland? Sweden?

John

<---- Paid for Studio 60's last Saturday, 2-3 weeks till they come though :(

I guess it's not something they stock, store claims there are lots of models so they have to pick and choose or something. In any case, the wait SUCKS.

Sorry, if this has been discussed before, but I got tired of searching.
Has anybody gone from a CC470 to the CC570? Or compared the two?
Is the 570 clearer from having the seperate mid driver?

I have the 470 and finding it a little "muddy"(?). I am wondering if the 570 would be a little better? I have moved it around as much as I can, but still not totally happy with it.

Started the long process of upgrading my HT.
Started out with a ROTEL RMB 1095, using my older HK AVR 5550 till I get a Rotel preamp.
Just ordered the following:
Studio 100's
cc570
ADP 470's
Servo 15 v2
All in Rosenut finish

Local dealer just informed that Paradigm have not yet started production of the Servo 15 in 230v configuration, they will be able to ship December 15th, which means I'm not getting anything till end December. :(

Really looking forward to these speakers, I am sure they will be a step up from my current Infinity Alpha speakers (though these sound a lot better now with the Rotel power).

Congrats! I just installed a pair of SA-15R in-ceilings yesterday for my surrounds. I'm extremely happy with them. I was a little worried because of everything I've read about not using in-ceiling speakers, but these diffuse sound very well. I can't really tell the sound is coming from the ceiling, it seems like it comes from the sides. I'm glad I decided to go with them instead of some Atoms mounted to the ceiling, the flush-mounted speakers look so clean!

Hey Redline, I have the same SA-15Rs in my ceiling as well for surrounds. They actually blend nicely with my S2s and C3 which I was pleasantly surprised about. They're pretty good for the price, no complaints on my part. And they can play pretty loud too for such a small in-ceiling speaker!

Although I could have had my C3 and ADPs already, I requested that they all ship together because I read 6 weeks ago in this thread that one persons Signatures arrived with significantly different cherry finishes between the speakers.

John the Sigs have serial numbers on the back. Try to get speakers with consecutive numbers, this may increase the odds that they're from the same batch and that the finish will be close.

Glad to see there's a dedicated Paradigm thread! I've had the following setup in a non dedicated room for about 5 years:

60's, Studio CC, Studio ADP's (all Reference), PS-1000 sub, all driven by Yamaha 5250 (100W x 5).

I'm happy with the sound, but wonder if any of the following will improve the sound prior to building a dedicated room:

1) Do nothing...won't be able to tell until you're in a dedicated environment.

2) BiWire by running speaker line from one set of posts to the other. (I was told this was just as effective as running a line from the receiver.)

3) BiAmp by using 5250 as main wired to bottom end and another 5.1 Yamaha 70W (already own) to high end.

4) Buy either Panny or JVC digital receiver. I like the JVC 402 because it has HDMI. Any quality difference? Wait for NuForce?

5) Use the 5250 as pre and buy decent power amp. How many watts?

6) This one's a little out there....keep 5250 as pre and buy 5 stereo amps to vertically biamp each speaker. Would a pro amp like a Crown XLS 202 work in a home environment?

Appreciate any thoughts, thanks.

I have a dilemma. I have a Denon AVR-3803 powering my Studio 60 fronts and CC-570 center and have calibrated the levels with my SPL meter but I always have to crank the center channel level to enjoy watching movies otherwise I can't clearly hear the dialogue. Is this common or is it just me?

I have the same dillama , I am using a 3805 with Studio 40 - my Center is only a CC-350 So I thought that may be a problem BUT if you have the same with a CC -570 Yikes I a, glad I did not upgrade yet .

1) Do nothing...won't be able to tell until you're in a dedicated environment.

You're basically correct.. room treatments will probably enhance your listening experience more than anything.

2) BiWire by running speaker line from one set of posts to the other. (I was told this was just as effective as running a line from the receiver.)

Biwiring will gain you the following: redundancy in case one of the wires gets cut, and a total higher gauge (2 x 16 AWG instead of perhaps 1). You're not going to hear a difference no matter whether you're in a dedicated room or not.

3) BiAmp by using 5250 as main wired to bottom end and another 5.1 Yamaha 70W (already own) to high end.

This is only going to help if you've already got a very nice separate power amp and want to step it up even further. At that point, your limiting factor is the speakers themselves anyway.

4) Buy either Panny or JVC digital receiver. I like the JVC 402 because it has HDMI. Any quality difference? Wait for NuForce?

Given you current receiver is a 5250, the first thing I would do if I were you is upgrade to a 7.1 receiver (with preouts) or pre/pro. It's already digital, so the receiver's not that bad, but I'd rather start off with a $700-1000 pre/pro and wait on the amp than get a $2000 amp and use it off of the 5250.

5) Use the 5250 as pre and buy decent power amp. How many watts?

Remember that quality is as (or more) important than a wattage rating. Nevertheless, somewhere around 150-200W is a good place to start researching for the 60s.

6) This one's a little out there....keep 5250 as pre and buy 5 stereo amps to vertically biamp each speaker. Would a pro amp like a Crown XLS 202 work in a home environment?

Overkill while still using the 5250. Look at other upgrades before this. Yes, you can use a Crown XLS 202, but they're quite loud so you'd want to have them in a separate room. I'd just as soon buy a 5 or 7 channel amp instead of five 202s.

I have a dilemma. I have a Denon AVR-3803 powering my Studio 60 fronts and CC-570 center and have calibrated the levels with my SPL meter but I always have to crank the center channel level to enjoy watching movies otherwise I can't clearly hear the dialogue. Is this common or is it just me?

Do you have a picture off your setup so we can see how the center placed in relation to the seating area? Personally I have a CC570 and the dialogue is clear.

gr8f8,
I have similar setup (Yammy RX-V2400, 60's L/R, CC-470, 20's SR/L) and added a 200Wx5 amp (Outlaw) last month. The difference was not dramatic, but the bass was more tight. You may notice more improvement because your amp section (5250) is rated a little less than my Yammy.

What seemed to help alot was speaker placement. After getting the amp, I also gave the speakers more room by moving them away from furniture a little more (only about 6"). Then it was much more dramatic of a change. So I don't know if just moving the speakers, or adding the amp, or both made the difference, but I'm extremely happy now.

I don't think biwiring with separate amps is advisable. The tweeters will get different amplification than the woofers, but the entire speaker loudness gets set by the receiver. So I think the amps should be balanced.

I also considered the Crowns before buying the Outlaw. I finally decided on Outlaw because the price was just a little more than going with XLS402's, but I didn't need the fan mod, I only have one box instead of three, the power turns off with the receiver without having to purchase a smart outlet, and less power cords.

I was able to improve the clairity of my CC-570 today by raising it off the floor another 4" and by angling up quite a bit more so it is pointing right at me. I can't believe what a difference it makes to have it aimed properly!

Tim,

Thanks for the feedback...my wife thanks you too for throwing water on the Crown idea! Curious...are you saying a good pre/pro will make a noticable difference? If so, can you give me some background on that? I've been under the impression that "headroom" was most important. Thanks.

front-Paradigm Monitor 9
centre-Paradigm cc-350
subwoofer-Paradigm pdr-12
back-Paradigm adp-170
surround-Paradigm Monitor 3

Receiver: Panny XR-55s

Hoping you guys can help me out w/ your opinions...

I'm in the process of putting together a theater area in my basement, and narrowing down the list of items to include. The open area being finished will be approx. 600 s.f., but theater area will be more traditionally-sized. Most viewing will be TV (sports & relatively few movies) and music will either be CD or Squeezebox. Would like to do a Paradigm system, and I'm leaning toward Monitor 5's, CC-470 and AMS-150R in the ceiling for surrounds. Due to size of space, considering Velodyne DLS-R5000.

Am considering the Marantz SR-8500 as an AVR (but, also looking at 7500 and Denon 3806).

Questions:
1. Monitor 5 / CC-470 an acceptable combination. (I realize Studio 40's would be better, but I'm not sure I'm willing to stretch on the cost.)
2. Should I consider the Studio 20's? (My concern is size of the room when listening to music.)
3. Anyone have any experience w/ the Velo./Par. combo like this?
4. AVR a good fit? Should I save the $$$ and go for the 7500 instead of 8500? Anything else?

Thanks in advance for any help/insight.

FWIW, I'll give you my two cents as an owner of Paradigms for all speakers but the subwoofer, with amplification provided by the Denon AVR 3806.

First, the CC-470 is part of the Paradigm Studio Reference series. While the surrounds and subwoofer don't need to be matched for timbre, the front soundstage does. That would argue for the Studio 20s or 40s. Neither would be too much for the room. I use the CC 470, along with Studio 60s, and it's excellent. Until the Paradigm Signatures came out less than two years ago, the Studio Reference series was Paradigm's top of the line. If any of that series falls within your budget, it's worth stepping up.

As for the AVR, you can't go wrong with either Marantz or Denon; they're actually close sister companies under the DMB corporate parent. Reputationally, Denon is thought to be better on the video side and at least equal, or sometimes better, on the audio side, depending on the particular model in question. Personally, my own upgrade from an Onkyo AVR to Denon was an ear opener -- and Onkyo's not bad.
Hope that helps. I don't have any experience with the Velo subwoofer.

Thanks for your insight s2. My concern is not so much that the Studio 20's would be "too much" for the room, but rather TOO LITTLE. It's a large space, and even with the support from the Velo/sub, not sure they're enough. Thoughts? (It's a lot easier to make the jump from the Mon. 5's to the Studio 20's than it is from the 5's to the 40's cost-wise.)

Is anybody using the 570 with 60's?
Has anyone, gone from a 470 to a 570?

I am looking to find out the differences.

I'm using the cc-570 V3 (bi wired) with 40s V3 (bi amped) and the sound is great - also have the adp-470s V3. I decided to go with the best center i could because most sound comes out of the center channel and i wanted it to be the best i could afford. My sub is an Infinity sw-12 because i really like the RABOS system. I drive these speakers with a Denon 4806.

My crossovers are: 40 for the center.
40 for the fronts.
60 for the rears.

BTW - the proper crossovers make a big difference - i contacted Paradigm to make sure i had them set appropriatly.

Is anybody using the 570 with 60's?
Has anyone, gone from a 470 to a 570?

I am looking to find out the differences.

Yes to the 570 with 60s. No to the 470 to 570. What specifically are you asking?

I am wondering what, if any, are the sonic differences. I am not worried about output levels here.

I have gone from a cc370 to the 470 and find it not as clear, almost a slightly muffled sound (at least compared to what I had. I am wondering if the bigger drivers are creating more "weight" and cause this effect in my room.
I was thinking that the added 4 driver in the 570 might help with this.
Yes I have moved it as much as I can and yes I have played with the x-over on my pre., to not much satisfaction.

I am wondering what, if any, are the sonic differences. I am not worried about output levels here.

I have gone from a cc370 to the 470 and find it not as clear, almost a slightly muffled sound (at least compared to what I had. I am wondering if the bigger drivers are creating more "weight" and cause this effect in my room.
I was thinking that the added 4 driver in the 570 might help with this.
Yes I have moved it as much as I can and yes I have played with the x-over on my pre., to not much satisfaction.

Unfortunately I can't help much as I only compared the 470 to the 570 in store and not at home. I felt that based on my in store comparison the 570 was better so I didn't bother with any serious comparison.

I also compared in the store (in a nice listening room) and found the 570 more detailed than the 470 (didn't get to compare them at home though)
, but if you are having problems with the 470 compared to the earlier CC then you may have room issuses more than speaker issues. I would first try moving the 470 around a bit. Experiment with your seating distance. Change the angle of the 470 a bit. The 470 is a kick$ss center so it should sound great, the 570 just sounds slightly greater!

I have the 570 matched with the 60's and the front soundstage is rock solid. I use ADP 470's for surrounds and recently added 20's for rears. All driven by an HK 7200 receiver. I'm very very happy with my setup.

Unfortunately I can't help much as I only compared the 470 to the 570 in store and not at home. I felt that based on my in store comparison the 570 was better so I didn't bother with any serious comparison.

Well, I have moved it as much as I can, but I don't have much room to play with.

My dealer (who is awesome) is gonna see what he can do about getting me a 570 to try.
The reason why I didn't go with it in the first place is that I was told that the 570 was made to match the 100's and not the 60's.

We'll see what happens...

Well, I have moved it as much as I can, but I don't have much room to play with.
We'll see what happens...

The 570 is bigger than the 470 you may want to check your space to see if it will fit.

Mikecy

The season been keeping me busy.

I agree bass is very good for a small speaker but the S2 shine is imaging!! I can turn off center and the wife does not know it. Have not told her. She may say "Why do you need the center channel then" NOOOOO :rolleyes:

I think I was used to the studios 100 that dont have top end that the signatures do. I think of it as air. Dont get me wrong, the studios sound very good. Guitars sound better as well as simbles(sp).

I additioned a AVR300 and I now understand what the fuss is about. I like the sound of this receiver. Very detailed I have listened to the following this past few weeks.

AVR300 with s2
DVD player Integra dpc-8.5 SACD and DVDA
Rotel 1072 CD player too

Also a complete Paradigm studio system 5.1 only with the AVR300

I think the AVR 300 will become a classic baised on the last two weeks of additioning.

I currently have a AVP 700
but will use the AVR300 for only 5.1 system and bi amp front channels.


RJ

RJ: You have the 700 but you're also getting the 300?

Hi guys, bear with me:

a.) Is it worth going to the Studio series over the Monitor series of the Paradigm light ? Thinking of going either a Monitor 9 or 11 vs the Studio 20 or Studio 40 ? Although I personally would like the 60 but the 40 might be ideal for my budget.

b.) Is there a big difference between the CC470 and the CC570 ? Its a $200 price difference.

c.) I noticed that the paradigm speakers are quite efficient, if to power them with big amps for HT, can they take the beating ?

what do you guys think of a Studio 40 in the front, CC470 center and Phantom in the rear ?

d.) PS Audio 150 watts x 2 drives the Studio 40, Bryston Bridged to 450 watts x1 for the center and a Rotel 100 watts x 2 for the rear ? Lexicon mc8 the processor. Rel 400 for the subs (2)

Tks for the inputs.

Ferd.

Is there a big difference between the CC470 and the CC570 ? Its a $200 price difference.

I emailed Paradigm on the same Q, matching with 20s for fronts. Here's their reply:

"Hi John

The CC-570 v.3 provides better detail/clarity through the mid and upper bass range.

The CC-570 v.3 has a slightly higher sensitivity rating than the Studio 20 v.3 but this is not a concern and there are no sonic problems that will arise by using it in the system.



Thanks for choosing Paradigm speakers.

Sincerely,
Gary Takeda
Paradigm Technical Support"

Hi guys, bear with me:

a.) Is it worth going to the Studio series over the Monitor series of the Paradigm light ? Thinking of going either a Monitor 9 or 11 vs the Studio 20 or Studio 40 ? Although I personally would like the 60 but the 40 might be ideal for my budget.

b.) Is there a big difference between the CC470 and the CC570 ? Its a $200 price difference.

c.) I noticed that the paradigm speakers are quite efficient, if to power them with big amps for HT, can they take the beating ?

what do you guys think of a Studio 40 in the front, CC470 center and Phantom in the rear ?

d.) PS Audio 150 watts x 2 drives the Studio 40, Bryston Bridged to 450 watts x1 for the center and a Rotel 100 watts x 2 for the rear ? Lexicon mc8 the processor. Rel 400 for the subs (2)

Tks for the inputs.

Ferd.

Ferd: you have some nice gear driving the speakers (Bryston, PS audio, Lexicon and Rotel) if budget permits, perhaps you should move up to the higher line such as the Studios or even the Sigs, to really take advantage of the high quality amps and pre/pro. Yes, I def think its worth moving up.

Agree. That's an excellent system, including the subwoofer. Your other speakers, which are the most important part of a system, anyway, should be at least in the same league with the components. The Paradigm Studio series is the point of entry. The 40s and 60s are not too different, except for the fact that the 60s are floor standing. You can save money by going for the 40s.

thks for the inputs guys....

i think i'll probably look at a CC570 with the studio 60's if budget permits, othewise a studio 40 w/ the cc570 would not be a bad alternate.

tks again.

Nor the Studio 60s with the CC470 if you want to save a little money and space.

point taken but wouldnt the center channel make a bigger difference than the mains ?

ferdinand77:

I strongly rwecommend considering the ADP470's as your surrounds. They're great for movies and high def TV.

point taken but wouldnt the center channel make a bigger difference than the mains ?
I don't think so. The "mains" are just what the name suggests: the primary part -- the soul-- of your system.

guys-- say paradigm studio 60's with the CC570 center and paradigm dipoles @ the rear.

Do you see any problems "tonally" if to use a bryston 3bSST monoblocked for the center-- which would mean 450 watts x 1.

For the Studio 60's-- would be using a PS Audio HCA 2 which produces 150w x 2.
My rears would either be a rotel or a mccormack 100 wx 2.

I know ideally, it would be nice to have all brands of amps the same, but in my case I just dont have a budget for a 5 channel or 7 channel all in one chassis amp.

However in the future, 3bsst= center, 4bsst = mains, mccormack =rears

My Processor is a Lexicon MC8.

Would appreciate some advise on this regards.

guys-- say paradigm studio 60's with the CC570 center and paradigm dipoles @ the rear.

Do you see any problems "tonally" if to use a bryston 3bSST monoblocked for the center-- which would mean 450 watts x 1.

For the Studio 60's-- would be using a PS Audio HCA 2 which produces 150w x 2.
My rears would either be a rotel or a mccormack 100 wx 2.

I know ideally, it would be nice to have all brands of amps the same, but in my case I just dont have a budget for a 5 channel or 7 channel all in one chassis amp.

However in the future, 3bsst= center, 4bsst = mains, mccormack =rears

My Processor is a Lexicon MC8.

Would appreciate some advise on this regards.

Just my .02

I would a/b the 3bsst and the PS on the 60s listening to 2 channel audio and go with the one that sounds better. The other I would use on the center. I don't think you need 450w on the center just to get clean dialog out of the 570. If the PS sounds better on the 60s then by all means mono up the 3bsst on the center.

john,

tks. if say the bryston sounds better on the mains, is it possible to use just the left or right channel of the ps audio for the center speakers ? meaning one channel of it will not be used ? will this cause a problem ?


Tks.

Forgive me for cross-posting the message below, but I'm not getting any replies on the thread I tried to start on the speaker forum. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

Angus

- - - - - - -

What's the consensus on using a different brand of speaker for surrounds than across the front? I have to go toally in-wall and have all but settled on Paradigm SA-35s or 30s for front LCR. I want dipoles for the surrounds but Paradigm doesn't make a true in-wall dipole. DefTech does--the UIW BP/A. How important is consistent matching with surrounds since I'm told they only handle 10-20% of the sound in a 5.1 system?

Second question: Is it necessary to shield the center channel if it's close to a plasma screen?

Thanks!

Angus

john,

tks. if say the bryston sounds better on the mains, is it possible to use just the left or right channel of the ps audio for the center speakers ? meaning one channel of it will not be used ? will this cause a problem ?


Tks.

Taking a guess here and hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in. I think you should bridge the PS output and not just run one channel. Another guess is the 570 is bi-wirable so maybe you could run each channel to the two terminals.

yeah, i did use the ps audio for the center and bi-amped my center speakers. Works good actually!

hi guys,

Definitely Paradigms but havent quite decided.

Thinking of using the Studio 20's for the center and the Studio 60 for the left and right front speakers ?

What do you think ? Or would I be better of using the C570 for the centers instead of the studio 20's.

Tks,

Ferd

Fred...how about a smattering of (3) Studio 20's across the front?
jk

Do you see any problems "tonally" if to use a bryston 3bSST monoblocked for the center-- which would mean 450 watts x 1.

For the Studio 60's-- would be using a PS Audio HCA 2 which produces 150w x 2.
My rears would either be a rotel or a mccormack 100 wx 2.

I know ideally, it would be nice to have all brands of amps the same, but in my case I just dont have a budget for a 5 channel or 7 channel all in one chassis amp.

You're going to have to make that call, after you set them up.

Paradigms must be pretty amp sensitive. The Studio 20v3s I have, sound like two different speakers, using my Aragon stereo amp (200 x2), as compared to my Rotel receiver (100 x2). More dynamic with the former, warmer presentation from the latter.

hi guys,

Definitely Paradigms but havent quite decided.

Thinking of using the Studio 20's for the center and the Studio 60 for the left and right front speakers ?

What do you think ? Or would I be better of using the C570 for the centers instead of the studio 20's.

Tks,

Ferd

Don't know your budget or room size but with the amps and processor you have I'd go for the 100s with the 570.

Hi John,

Was thinkin of the 100s but its a bit steep for me. If to go with a floorstander the 60s and the 570 would be the most i'd go.

My room is about 16 ft x 20 feet (depth). Its well treated.

With this room size though i wonder if the monitor 20's with the 470 would cut it. Using two subs though.

tks.

Hi John,

Was thinkin of the 100s but its a bit steep for me. If to go with a floorstander the 60s and the 570 would be the most i'd go.

My room is about 16 ft x 20 feet (depth). Its well treated.

With this room size though i wonder if the monitor 20's with the 470 would cut it. Using two subs though.

tks.

My room is just a tad bit bigger than yours and I went with the 60s and 570 with 20s in the rear.

My room is just a tad bit bigger than yours and I went with the 60s and 570 with 20s in the rear.

Hi John,

What amps are you using? with above speakers, do you get the room filling effect ?

Tks.

Hi John,

What amps are you using? with above speakers, do you get the room filling effect ?

Tks.

I have a Denon 4806 AVR and it does a great job of filling the room. When funds allow I plan to add a 2 channel amp to drive the 60s.

Taking a guess here and hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in. I think you should bridge the PS output and not just run one channel. Another guess is the 570 is bi-wirable so maybe you could run each channel to the two terminals.


I spent a day or so listenin to the ps audio in bi-amped mode driving the center speakers of my old acoustic energy speakers. at first it was ok, full of details and good impact , clear vocals. However after listening for quite sometime, it became kinda fatiguing. I guess too much is the word for it. So I went back to the bryston 3bsst in mono mode to the center speakers, preferred it.

So my config is PS audio driving the mains, 3bsst mono driving the centers. Someone offered a used old 3bst- i might try it and replace it w/ the ps audio so all the three speakers in the front would be driven by the brystons.

studio 60 v3 fronts driven by an arcam P85 power-amp. (connected to a NAD pre-amp).

mini monitors and CC-370 driven by a Marantz SR-7400.

Subwoofer is a SVS PCi20-39.

The idea is to have a hybrid setup where stereo music quality is more important then movie sound quality. Also note that I had monitor 7's before I got the studio 60's.

Although the not ideal combination of studio and monitor speakers I am still quite satisfied with movie sound. For music I always listen in stereo.


CD player is an Ultra Tjoeb 4000.

Mikeyc

"RJ: You have the 700 but you're also getting the 300" Yes I own both now.
the 300 is driving studios 100 v3

I will use the 700 with the sherbourn 2100 in 7.1 system and the 300 will be used
in 5.1 system. Biamp S2 in 5.1 system.

RJ

CD player is an Ultra Tjoeb 4000.

ting: I just picked up a Njoe Tjoeb 4000 and also an upsampler from Audigon. It prolly needs some time to break in but it sounds pretty good already. I've heard of the tweaked Super Tjoebs, but never heard of the Ultra Tjoebs? Is that a new model? How do you like it?

Yet another what to get question.
I listened to some Paradigms about a yer ago. I was very impresed

I am finally looking to set my HT system now

Right now I have:
Onkyo 600 or 601 ? 85w ( 3 yrs. old)
I just purchased a Velodyne DPS-12 Sub

Room about 20x30 or so.
I will be watching movies primarily
So, 80% Movies and 20% music

Fronts
Looking at the Mon 7, or 11's. But since I already have a sub, in reading the prev post, i think the Mon 7 would be sufficient over the M 11's? Is this true? I belive with the M 11's i would need an AMP? My receiver would not push the M 11's I believe.

CC
maybe the cc-370. Or possible a Mini to save some money

Surounds
Not sure here. possibly just go with the Minis. the ADP-370 are real expensive and may be too expensive for me

OR

Front
Studio 20's. Some posters like the Mon 7's just as well or even the Mon 11's. If I go this route i can always upgrade later and move these to the back. big benefit here.

CC
cc-470 or maybe even a 3rd Studio 20?

Surrounds
Possibly another set of Stud 20's or to save some money go with something a little less expensive. Any suggestions here? ADP-470's just seem way to expensive for me. Once again, I can always move the Studio 20's here later if i upgrade the front later 9 to some studio 40's or 60's )

For my options, MSRP's range is about $1400-2300, not taking in to acct any given dealer discounts... $2300.00 range would be (4) Studio 20's w/ a cc-470

Once again, I already have a Sub..

I WILL go to a dealer again and audition some of these combos.

What do you guys think???

Thanks!

hi guys,

Definitely Paradigms but havent quite decided.

Thinking of using the Studio 20's for the center and the Studio 60 for the left and right front speakers ?

What do you think ? Or would I be better of using the C570 for the centers instead of the studio 20's.

Tks,

Ferd

Why don't you try each particular set up and see which one you like best :D

Unless you plan on running an outboard amp, the 11's would be a waste.

I'd say used Studio 20 v.3's & a CC-470. Or new Minimonitors all around (CC370 sucks unless modified).

What do you guys think???
For similar cash and since you already have a decent sub, go with the 20s. Get the CC-470 instead of the 370 without a doubt. Remember, since you're using it for 80% movies, the center channel will get more use than any other speaker that you have -- get a good one!

Unless you plan on running an outboard amp, the 11's would be a waste.

I'd say used Studio 20 v.3's & a CC-470. Or new Minimonitors all around (CC370 sucks unless modified).

Intersting

5 Minis all around
MSRP $1200.00 possibly less
I will try to audition this set up too

Amd maybe flip the front Minis with some Monitor 7's too, but if I go that route possibly better off just getting the studio 20's ( MSRP on the M 7's about the same as the Studio 20's) in the front with the Minis in the back. Then try a Mini for the center

OH YAH, what paradigm Sub should I audition with the various set ups? Something comparable to the Velodyne DPS-12 I just purchased????

Thanks

An ex designer at Paradigm told me about a sleeper, the Monitor 90P. He said that most of the designers and the owners at Paradigm have them in their homes. This behemoth has a built-in powered sub and in his opinion it keeps up with the more expensive Ref Studio 100s. Its a sleeper because there are very few reviews of it but apparently it blows away speakers costing many times more. If you have room and budget you should think about this model as well.

Unless you plan on running an outboard amp, the 11's would be a waste.

I'd say used Studio 20 v.3's & a CC-470. Or new Minimonitors all around (CC370 sucks unless modified).


## just want to clarify about the "not so good" response on the CC370-- is this true ? how about the lower model of this center called the CC270 ?

Tks for the inputs

"(CC370 sucks unless modified)."
I have a CC-350 how can it be modified ?

Last year I purchased a demo Studio 20 v3 with sycamore finish from a local store. I'm shopping for a center channel now (CC-470), but the same store is quoting me about $15 off MSRP... 2.3% off. :(

I've tried ebay and audiogon, but listings with sycamore finish are rare/non-existent. Is this finish really that unpopular?

Thanks!
Dave

ting: I just picked up a Njoe Tjoeb 4000 and also an upsampler from Audigon. It prolly needs some time to break in but it sounds pretty good already. I've heard of the tweaked Super Tjoebs, but never heard of the Ultra Tjoebs? Is that a new model? How do you like it?
The Ultra Tjoeb is simply the same as the Tjoeb Reference but without the upsampler
and with the better (compared to those in the Super Tjoeb) Burr Brown opamps.
The Ultra Tjoeb also has the Siemens E288CC tubes.

Difference between the different Tjoeb flavors are on the website of the makers..

This is a great section, "Paradigm." I have read with interest all entries of all 21 pages, and though I have a much better feeling for these speaker selections now, I am still a bit confused. So many of you guys are very knowledgable.
So here is what I am thinking. I prefer a floor-standing speaker, and need to appease my wife on something that approximates "furniture." I want "real good,' but do not need the BEST. I have auditioned the Monitor 11 fronts ("real good") but have read about the virtues of Studio series. The Studio 60's read well...but do not "look" as substantive as the Monitor 11.
OK...so straight up, for direct comparison of sound of Monitor 11 VS. Studio 60...which would be better sounding/performing ?

Side note...I hope that Paradigm's speakers are superior to their official website. I think they could be more "user-friendly." ;)
I do about 70% HT, and 30% music.

Thanks to all of you guys that take the time to share your expertise and Paradigm experience. I look forward to your opinions.

From what I found when listning to booth of thoes speakers The 60's were more acurate I herd stuff in recordings I never herd beffore -The 11's also sounded good but not as bright BUT had better lows .

I have auditioned the Monitor 11 fronts ("real good") but have read about the virtues of Studio series. The Studio 60's read well...but do not "look" as substantive as the Monitor 11.
OK...so straight up, for direct comparison of sound of Monitor 11 VS. Studio 60...which would be better sounding/performing ?
It's really no contest. The 60's are part of Pardigm's "Reference" line, which until the Signature line was released a couple of years ago was Paradigm's top-of-the-line and are still in a different class than the Monitors.

My friend had the 11's, then went to 60's and was blown away.
The 11's are good but they need a big room to breathe.
The 60's are built better too.

on the paradigm 60s and cc570 can one play this at low levels to mid and get the clarity still ?
currently i'm still using my old speakers and noticed that i have to crank up the vol to mid to loud levels to hear details, clarity etc. Hoping on the Studio 60s and cc570 that at low to mid level details come alive and its already clear.

My old speakers are acoustic energy evo3

regard

Ferd

Most defiantly

OK...so straight up, for direct comparison of sound of Monitor 11 VS. Studio 60...which would be better sounding/performing ?

This is exactly the comparison my wife and I made when selecting speakers. We ended up going to a bunch of different stores and listening to various speakers, then go to the Hifi shop where the Paradigms were and immediately noticed the difference, and began comparing between the 11s and the 60s. I expected my wife to not notice much of a difference and not want to spend the extra cash. In fact, she was the one who said that there's no way she wanted to get the 11s when the 60s sounded so much more clear, detailed, and all-around better. Who am I to complain? :)

Figured I would add my "low end" system as well. I started out in 1993 with Titans, Atoms and the CC-150 (plus a Paradigm Reference sub whose model I don't recall). These speakers were powered by a Sony GX69ES reciever. For what I spent, they were ridiculously good.

In 2000 I upgraded to a NAD T760 reciever - much cleaner power (85x5) and the Titans handled it quite well. A year ago one of the Titans blew so I replaced the front pair with Monitor 3s (v2 I believe, which were larger cabinets). I continued running the un-powered sub inline with the monitor 3s which still sounded great :confused: The atoms are still cranking in the back...

My plan is to upgrade my center (tomorrow actually) to a CC370 and early next year replace the Monitor 3s with something bigger from Paradigm (9s, 11s or Studios). I am about 90% HT and 10% music these days but at least HDTV and DVDs sound amazing.

My first choice was the Studio 60 w/ the CC570 but my dealer gave me a good price on a paradigm CC570 w/ the Paradigm Studio 100 V3's. My question: will this speaker be too big for my 16w x 20d x 9h room ? my room is however well treated though.

tks for inputs.

My room is just about that size and I have the exact same setup. If your room is treated you are in for a great experience.

Enjoy

clrv,

what amps are you using to drive the 100s ? other than the c570 have you tried other paradigm center speakers there? is the 570 the one to beat still, other than the signature off course.

tks.

I use the a Sherbourn 7/2100A for my amp. I have used just a Yamaha receiver and it did a ok job for what it was. As far as the CC I have had the 350, 470, and the 570. There was a major diff. in the 350 to the 470, and a decent improvement from the 470 to the 570. To me it was worth the extra $200.

CLRV,

Many thanks for the replies. At least you heard most of paradigms center speakers. Was also contemplating on saving $200 by going with the 470 instead of the 570, however in home theater, one important aspect is center speakers so i decided to go with the 570. As for the monitor 60 or 100, i havent finalized yet but for ht do you see an advantage going with the 100 over the 60s ? I know in two channel stereo it may, but how about HT?

any chance you tried the 60s before leapin to the 100s ?

clrv,

what amps are you using to drive the 100s ? other than the c570 have you tried other paradigm center speakers there? is the 570 the one to beat still, other than the signature off course.

tks.
Yes, since the 570 is the best of the Studio line. As you just mentioned, the center is the most used channel in an HT, and the 570 is a decent step up from the 470 (especially with 100s from what I hear).

Yes, since the 570 is the best of the Studio line. As you just mentioned, the center is the most used channel in an HT, and the 570 is a decent step up from the 470 (especially with 100s from what I hear).

Hi. thanks for reply. You mean 570 is a good match with the 100s ? In other words if to get the 100s, its almost best to match it with the 570 ?

Wouldnt the 60's also match w/ the CC570s?

tks.

:rolleyes:

I am looking to upgrade my CC-350 to a CC Studio
I have 40's V.3 Up front now
how will they match & will this be a major inprovement from a CC-350 to a CC v.2 ?

antman,

what amp are you power your 40s v3 ? how you find them for HT and music ?

Hi. thanks for reply. You mean 570 is a good match with the 100s ? In other words if to get the 100s, its almost best to match it with the 570 ?

Wouldnt the 60's also match w/ the CC570s?

tks.

:rolleyes:
Yes, the 100s and 570 match, and the 60s and 470 match, ideally. Each will work with the other, but they're ideally suited in those pairings. (The two bass drivers in the 570 match better with the same three in the 100, rather than the single 7" in the
60).

"Matching" is all relative. A 60 and 570 would match much better than a 60 and 370, but technically not quite as well as a 470. Still, I'd take the extra capability in a 570 over the 470 due to its heavy usage (if I couldn't step up to 100s, since 470->570 is a $200 upgrade, not $800 like going to 100s).

Funny you ask I have a denon 3805 & find it cranks for HT but lacks & low volume for music .
I am trying to find an amp for it BUT have almost no space left.I am looking into the new Sunfire digital amp but its not out yet its only 1" tall.
With HT my dialog seams muddy & hard to hear but the fx sound great .
I think my 40s would wake up with an amp -I realy have to crank up the 3505 for them to come to life

Yes, the 100s and 570 match, and the 60s and 470 match, ideally. Each will work with the other, but they're ideally suited in those pairings. (The two bass drivers in the 570 match better with the same three in the 100, rather than the single 7" in the
60).

"Matching" is all relative. A 60 and 570 would match much better than a 60 and 370, but technically not quite as well as a 470. Still, I'd take the extra capability in a 570 over the 470 due to its heavy usage (if I couldn't step up to 100s, since 470->570 is a $200 upgrade, not $800 like going to 100s).



Now thats very interesting.

Studio 60+ CC470
Studio 100 + CC570

hmmmm. I'll have to think about that. I was hoping that the CC570 would match with the 60s well enough that i could just get by with the studio 60 and cc570. I want it seamless thats why i want it closely matched.

Ok, is there a big difference in sound between the studio 60 & studio 100 ? i know bass is better on the 100s but how about the mids and high ?

tks guys.

Miltimj,

another question. If to use the 100s and 570s, what crossover settings should i put these in my lexicon ? how about the subs ? would 80 hz THX be a good starting point ?? My subs are two Rel Q400Es.

My rear speakers, still undecided. Maybe the Studio 20s ? Dont know yet really.

The 570 will definitely match the 60s well enough. Basically, IMO 60+570 is better than 60+470, but ideally the 100s match with the 570. I was going to upgrade from 370 (completely temporary) to 570, then 60s to 100s, but I'm just going to do them both at the same time, next month (a few days before Christmas).

Currently I'm forming my opinions from auditioning and many others' comments on the forum. In a month I'll be able to compare more in depth having experienced them both in my listening environment. Note that the 100s really need an amp to bring them to their full potential, moreso than the 60s, due to their increased bass response.

..Which comes to your other question. 100s seem to basically add low end for the most part, but also take some load off the mid-range and tweeters with the additional drivers they provide. So basically, slight improvement in mid & high, and a more significant improvement in the low end (after all, they have two more 7"ers and larger cabinet space).

As far as crossover settings, that very much depends on the combination of speakers, amplification, and most importantly, your room. I'd set it at 80Hz as you said, and play with it from there. If you have decent amplification (150W+) on 100s, I'd lower it a bit to take advantage of that.. If you have a typical receiver powering 100s, or 60s, 80Hz would probably be the lowest I'd go in general. My 60s and SVS PB-12 are crossed over at 80Hz at the moment.

Oh, and as for the rear speakers, that seems to be personal preference. I tend to go for the diffuse effect and like the 470s. That's what I'll end up getting, but not until I build my dedicated home theater. I currently use directs because that's what I have, and they're 15' behind me. I've thought about getting 20s or 40s and trying them in my (future) room, and if I like the 470s, keep them, and put the 20s/40s in another room, such as the living room.

If you have a good sub and you use your setup more for home theater than for music save the money and go with the 60s.

"any chance you tried the 60s before leapin to the 100s"

Yes, but not in my setup. We(my friend and I)just finished with his theater and we went with the CC570, 60's, ADP 470's, and servo for the sub. It is a great match, and sound fantastic.

This is exactly the comparison my wife and I made when selecting speakers. We ended up going to a bunch of different stores and listening to various speakers, then go to the Hifi shop where the Paradigms were and immediately noticed the difference, and began comparing between the 11s and the 60s. I expected my wife to not notice much of a difference and not want to spend the extra cash. In fact, she was the one who said that there's no way she wanted to get the 11s when the 60s sounded so much more clear, detailed, and all-around better. Who am I to complain? :)

THANKS, TIM. I THINK I WILL GO WITH THE STUDIO 60 / CC-570 COMBO...Now, for surrounds...I am thinking a pair of mini-Monitors (I get nauseous every time I even think of dipoles.) :D My room will not reasonably accomodate 7.1, but will handle 5.1

I am looking to upgrade my CC-350 to a CC Studio
I have 40's V.3 Up front now
how will they match & will this be a major inprovement from a CC-350 to a CC v.2 ?


Huge difference. I'd say get a 470 though. Matched series.

The 570 will definitely match the 60s well enough. Basically, IMO 60+570 is better than 60+470, but ideally the 100s match with the 570. I was going to upgrade from 370 (completely temporary) to 570, then 60s to 100s, but I'm just going to do them both at the same time, next month (a few days before Christmas).

Currently I'm forming my opinions from auditioning and many others' comments on the forum. In a month I'll be able to compare more in depth having experienced them both in my listening environment. Note that the 100s really need an amp to bring them to their full potential, moreso than the 60s, due to their increased bass response.

..Which comes to your other question. 100s seem to basically add low end for the most part, but also take some load off the mid-range and tweeters with the additional drivers they provide. So basically, slight improvement in mid & high, and a more significant improvement in the low end (after all, they have two more 7"ers and larger cabinet space).

As far as crossover settings, that very much depends on the combination of speakers, amplification, and most importantly, your room. I'd set it at 80Hz as you said, and play with it from there. If you have decent amplification (150W+) on 100s, I'd lower it a bit to take advantage of that.. If you have a typical receiver powering 100s, or 60s, 80Hz would probably be the lowest I'd go in general. My 60s and SVS PB-12 are crossed over at 80Hz at the moment.

Oh, and as for the rear speakers, that seems to be personal preference. I tend to go for the diffuse effect and like the 470s. That's what I'll end up getting, but not until I build my dedicated home theater. I currently use directs because that's what I have, and they're 15' behind me. I've thought about getting 20s or 40s and trying them in my (future) room, and if I like the 470s, keep them, and put the 20s/40s in another room, such as the living room.

Hi miltjim,

My power amps are the Bryston 3bst bridged so it produces 400wx1, left and right are Bryston 3bsst which is 150w x 2.

Would these be enough for either the 60v3 or 100v3 ?

What effect does the 470 have over the studio 20s ?

Regards,

Ferdinand

After I upgrade my center next are the rears.
My sofa is agains the back wall that the speakers are mounted to & they are about 7"
Would ADPs dipole work beter in this location or front fireing ?I now have Cenimas on brackets angled down into the center of room as much as posible >
Thanks ~

on the studio 100 v3 how far do these have to be away from side and back walls ? how many feet apart ?
are these speakers tricky to place in a room ?


tks.

They are front ported so they can go against the wall

I wouldn't recommend placing the 100s against the wall even though they're front ported b/c they need room to "breathe". You'll find that they have a much better soundstage and imaging if they're a few feet away from the wall.

any thoughts on my rears upgrades ?

" After I upgrade my center next are the rears.
My sofa is agains the back wall that the speakers are mounted to & they are about 7"
Would ADPs dipole work beter in this location or front fireing ?I now have Cenimas on brackets angled down into the center of room as much as posible >
Thanks ~"

I also have space constraints and my sofa is up against the rear wall. I decided to go with Paradigm in ceiling speakers - the SA 15 from their Ref line. Sounds great, blend nicely with my Sigs and great have good WAF.

Would ADPs dipole work beter in this location or front fireing

I think the ADP's are designed for side wall placement, and placed so the null (or side) is aligned with your ear.
My couch is up against the back wall too (dang it), so I put 20's in the corners, on shelves, firing a little behind my head/at me.
My friend (same couch scenario) has ADP's on the side walls forward a bit froward from his seated position and it sounds good too.
I don't know how the ADP's would work on the back wall, but personally, I wouldn't do it.

Thanks , Have a look at my pix
Do you guys think I should get new brackets to angle the rears down & more centered
Also have a look at the angle on my CC-350 any thoughts ?

I would put the spkr in the first pic, on the side wall firing along the back wall, aimed out very slightly. Then the on the other side, mount it on that plastic easel. Or put it on top on that hutch or what ever that is. Also lower them if you can so they are about 3 feet above your ear height when seated.

Get that center channel to the EDGE of your tv. Consider using this shelf, which would work well.
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/Search.do?c=1&context=&keyword=onmimount+center+channel+shelf&searchSection=All

Thanks ~
It would be a tough job since the wires are in the walls & poke out behind the speakers now

I now use the Premier MB 60's to mount my rears
Would the Premier MB 40's help me out to get a better angle on the speakers the MB 60s are maxed out on the angle & tilt down

http://www.premier-av-furniture.com/MountingBrackets/MB_60/MB_60.html

http://www.premier-av-furniture.com/MountingBrackets/MB_40/MB_40.html

I don't know how the ADP's would work on the back wall, but personally, I wouldn't do it.
They have the same effect as they do from a side wall.. diffusing the sound so you can't localize that it's from a certain point behind you (or to the side of you, in the case of side surrounds). The closer the wall is to you, the better dipoles will sound compared to directs, since you have less room to "scatter" the sound and trick you into figuring out where it's coming from. Four dipoles as rear/side surrounds also maximize the surround effect for different listening positions within a room, as opposed to directs that may be affected by modes within the room that may be at a particular listening position.

I picked the studio 40's after hearing a system @ work -
It is 4 SA -35's in a large space powered by a2 crown D75 amps and a carver preamp-tuner PSC60
Althow the sa are in wall speakers and the 40's are not I thought they would sound similar
My 40's are powered by a Denon 3805 & by far the sa-35 seem like they go much lower . Much more base & low volume over my 40's
Any Thoughts why ?

Currently I am powering my Studio 60 v3's and CC-570 with a Denon 3803 receiver. Does anyone know if I will see an increase in sound quality at normal listening levels if I add a quality amplifier?

Currently I am powering my Studio 60 v3's and CC-570 with a Denon 3803 receiver. Does anyone know if I will see an increase in sound quality at normal listening levels if I add a quality amplifier?



how are you finding the sound quality of your set-up now? Do you feel there is enough power ?

It sounds pretty good but it seems like to receiver is struggling sometimes. Now that I have added accoustical treatments to the room which helped a lot, I was hoping it could sound even better with a bit more power. I don't really care if it is louder, I just want more detail.

I have the same concerns my 40's sound good powered by my 3805 But you really have to crank um up to come alive . I am hoping an amp will help lower listening levels .

I have the same concerns my 40's sound good powered by my 3805 But you really have to crank um up to come alive . I am hoping an amp will help lower listening levels .
Antman,

What amps are you considering for your 40's? I think I'm going to pull the trigger on a pair within the next month and after 3 weeks of listening to the Studio 20's with my AVR635, I think at least a good 2ch amp for the 40's is in order.

Anyone else have any opinions on what amps will compliment the Studio 40's? Most likely 2ch will be enough, but if there's a Multi-channel amp that would work with the 40's and 20's I may be interested.

Thanks in advance,

Andrew

I will soon be getting Monitor 5's to replace my 10 year old Bose 501's. My local dealer is telling me to get the 370 center but I have read some not-so-good things about it here. What center channel would be a proper match for the Monitor 5's?

I think the Brystons seem fine choices with the Paradigm speakers. A lot of fellow inmates here seem to use the Para with the Brystons to good effect.

I had the pleasure of running my 20s with just my AVR-3300. I was between amps at the time. About 2 weeks worth of time. I sold my Parasound 855 and had no choice until my Parasound 1205 came home. The difference was noticed in the first 5 seconds after I plugged the 20s back into the Denon. Image, width and depth are words that come to mind. A couple weeks after that the 20s were moved to the rear to replace mini mons, with 40s now living in the front. The Studio series isn't hard to drive, but they do love good clean power. The Denon wouldn't do very loud without signs of compression and a harshness. With the Parasound amp the studios just keep getting louder. The Parasound has its limit as well but its a hell of a lot louder then I will ever listen to. Another large difference came when the Denon was removed and replaced by a true pre/pro(Outlaw 950) I'm not bashing Denon, I love mine, but again the difference was almost night and day. I didn't mean to ramble with this one, just wanted you boys to see the path that Upgrade-itis has taken me down in the last 2 months. Bottom line, an external power amp made a large difference for me, I would be very hard pressed to ever go back to a reciever in my main system. I am also one of those people that believe all power amps DO NOT sound the same. Good luck with your quest and YMMV :D

The right amp and/or power configuration can make all the difference with Paradigms. I'm using the Studio 60s as fronts and in the past month I have made two seemingly minor amp-related upgrades that opened up entirely new sound vistas. First, I upgraded from an Onkyo 100 wpc receiver to the Denon AVR 3806 (120wpc) and immediately heard a much more robust sound stage and greater detail. I don't think that was due, as much, to the extra wattage as to the features of the Denon. Then, I bi-amped the 60s from the Denon's surround back speaker outputs. The most dramatic effect of that move was to increase the clarity and depth of the bass output. Next, I'm going to upgrade my speaker wires. Imagine if I went to some truly high-end separate amp?

Hey s2silber How did you Bi-Amp the surround backs to your main L&R ??

Hey s2silber How did you Bi-Amp the surround backs to your main L&R ??
Easily. The Denon AVR-3806 is a 7.1 receiver containing speaker posts and a separate power supply for a set of surround back speakers, in addition to the regular surround l-r. Since I don't intend to go from a 5.1 to 7.1 system in the near future, I assigned the power from the SB channels to the Front L-R channels in the AVR's set-up menu. Then, I ran one pair of full-range speaker cables from the Front L-R speaker posts on the receiver to the "Low" set of inputs on the back of the Studio 60s. Finally, I ran a separate pair of speaker cables from the SB posts out to the "High" inputs of the Paradigms. Remember to remove that gold bridge on the Paradigms' inputs before bi-amping.
Let us know what SQ differences you notice.

Thanks I will give that a try !! I am also only using 5.1 but I do have a second set of outdoor speakers wired to zone 2 so that set of speakers is on the surr back / multi L&R outputs .So can I a assignee the surround B to main L&R ?

I wasn't clear whether you, too, are using the 3806, but it does support three zones, so you should be able to drive a pair of outdoor speakers while also bi-amping the fronts from the SB channels. You'd probably have to use the pre-amp out, but best thing is to check the manual or the 3806 thread in the Amplifiers section of this forum.

Thanks I have the 3805

Oh well I can not Bi-wire my 40's from my 3805 IF I am using zone 2 for outdoor without adding an amp



You can only use the amplifiers for one or the other.

I've done some searching and I can't find anything right off, so here I go:

I just bought some cinema ct110 L/R for my rears, and now I'm looking for some mounts to mount it to the ceiling. I don't know what would be best and was looking for a little help. preferably I'd like something that is white.

thanks.

Does anyone know here for sure how low does the Studio 60 v3 goes ? how about the studio 100 v3 ?

Thanks.

http://www.paradigm.com/Website/SiteReferenceProduct/RModels/StudioSeries/StudioSpecs.html

I will soon be getting Monitor 5's to replace my 10 year old Bose 501's. My local dealer is telling me to get the 370 center but I have read some not-so-good things about it here. What center channel would be a proper match for the Monitor 5's?

The370 is a great pairing with the Monitor 5's. I have absolutely no complaints about this setup, for what it's worth here. I'd say listen and evaluate in the same room at the same time as your other choices will lead to the best outcome, since so much of this is really subjective art anyway...

I ended up getting the Monitor 7's and the 370. The M-7's are v.4 and the 370 is v.3. Is a v.4 370 available and if so should I get it? Would it be a better match? Thanks.

I am planning on adding Monitor 11's i for front, 370 center and 370 surrounds this weekend due to a local dealer's sale. Will be driving them with a Denon AVR-3200 connected to Pioneer CLD-D406 LD player, Pioneer DV-525 DVD player, and Mits HSU-71 SVHS VCR being displayed on a Mit CS2671R 26" TV.

My dilemma is I like the Rosenut finish but am not sure if I need the shielded ones (which only come in black). I am currently using Polk Monitor 7's for my fronts that only sit 11 & 14 inches from the set (I know but room restrictions) with no interference. My worry is that the 11's will have a bigger field. Anybody have any experience with them and how far away they need to be in real world situations. Paradigm's site says 1 to 2 feet but I would like real experience.
Thanks!

I am planning on adding Monitor 11's i for front, 370 center and 370 surrounds this weekend due to a local dealer's sale. Will be driving them with a Denon AVR-3200 connected to Pioneer CLD-D406 LD player, Pioneer DV-525 DVD player, and Mits HSU-71 SVHS VCR being displayed on a Mit CS2671R 26" TV.

My dilemma is I like the Rosenut finish but am not sure if I need the shielded ones (which only come in black). I am currently using Polk Monitor 7's for my fronts that only sit 11 & 14 inches from the set (I know but room restrictions) with no interference. My worry is that the 11's will have a bigger field. Anybody have any experience with them and how far away they need to be in real world situations. Paradigm's site says 1 to 2 feet but I would like real experience.
Thanks!

Ask your dealer if you can take a floor model home to try out.

Studio 100 v3's
A CC470
ADP470s
No sub
Connected to a HK AVR635
DVD-A SACD player Yamaha DVD-C750

So far HUGELY disappointed with the Paradigms.

All equipment brand new. Noticed a couple of weeks ago that tweeter domes on Studio 100s have sizeable dents in them. Alerted dealer immediately. After much going back and forward with dealer (The Sound Room in Vancouver, Canada) and Paradigm (in Canada) I still have no word form either on what is going to be done about this. No commitments from either the Sound Room or Paradigm. I intend posting the final outcome here on AVSForum as I feel current and potential customers should be aware that they may not get the level of support they would expect from either the dealer or Paradigm (who I believe are ultimately accountable for the sales channels they choose). I will and see what happens but am tired of contacting the dealer / Paradigm and hitting a brick wall. If anyone out there knows the e-mail address or telephone number of the Paradigm President I would be grateful for it - I doubt he / she is aware that this sort of thing goes on. I also feel that they at least need to respond formally so that I can post their response with my experience.

Also (and this may be due to my own setup) but there is a distinct hum coming from the ADP470s, regardless of whether I am playing HDCD, regular CDs, DVDs (DTS, DOLBY, etc), etc. Not sure what I should do differently or whether there is a problem with the HK or the speakers themselves.

I hope I can report back soon that everything is well in the world of Paradigm.

[Also (and this may be due to my own setup) but there is a distinct hum coming from the ADP470s, regardless of whether I am playing HDCD, regular CDs, DVDs (DTS, DOLBY, etc), etc. Not sure what I should do differently or whether there is a problem with the HK or the speakers themselves.

I hope I can report back soon that everything is well in the world of Paradigm.[/QUOTE]

I also had some hum. I replaced my audio 5.1 cables (cheapo non-shielded) with shielded RCA cables- and the hum went away.

Ask your dealer if you can take a floor model home to try out.
They would but unfortunately they don't stock the 11's, they will be ordering them for me.

All equipment brand new. Noticed a couple of weeks ago that tweeter domes on Studio 100s have sizeable dents in them.

Do you believe this happened in the factory prior to you getting them?

Studio 100 v3's

So far HUGELY disappointed with the Paradigms.

All equipment brand new. Noticed a couple of weeks ago that tweeter domes on Studio 100s have sizeable dents in them. Alerted dealer immediately.
I hope I can report back soon that everything is well in the world of Paradigm.

How long did you have them before you noticed? My 60s came with the grills off. Sizeable dents would have been noticed during inspection after the plastic came off and before the grills went on. Have you demo'ed them for any guest and left the room with the grills off? Any kids been near them when you were not in the room?

They would but unfortunately they don't stock the 11's, they will be ordering them for me.

Better safe than sorry. Get the shielded ones.

I think it may have happened in the factory unless they were opened by the dealer before I got them. I have had them for 2 months. Unfortunately I am a trusting soul and when I unpacked them (at night) I put the covers on straight away without thinking of first checking that everything was good - that was my mistake. I did not take the covers off again until 2 weeks ago (during the day) when I took my first good look and was almost floored when I saw the dents. Obviously the sound is not impacted much, if at all (otherwise I would have taken the covers off sooner). No-one has taken the covers in the interim. I do have kids - a 3 month old who obviously could not have done it (he is not even sitting up yet, and a 2 and half year old. The latter is not allowed anywhere near the equipment, both because he could damage it and it could damage him (the stuff is heavy, especially the speakers which will hurt him badly should they fall on him). If he had done it he would also be the smartest, most mechanically adept 2 and a half year old in the world. Have you tried taking the covers off a Studio 100? - they are difficult to remove, even for an adult. He would have had to have taken off each cover, one by one, dented only the tweeters (which are at the limit of his reach) and then have put the covers back on. The rest of the speakers are perfect - no marks anywhere. I am sure he would have done more damage than just to the tweeters. Anyone who has been around a two and a half year old will tell you that it would have been quite some feat for them.

@smbestbier

If your story is true, then it may be a bit harder for me to buy from Sound Room. Just wondering, are they the only Paradigm dealer in Vancouver?

I ended up getting the Monitor 7's and the 370. The M-7's are v.4 and the 370 is v.3. Is a v.4 370 available and if so should I get it? Would it be a better match? Thanks.

Yes. The CC-370 comes in v.4.

I purchased a CC-270 v.3 about a month ago after the Dealer told me it was the latest version. He ordered a pair of ADP-170's for me and when they came in they were v.4 so I questioned the whether the CC-270 was the latest version. They found out v.4 was available. They ordered the v.4 for me to exchange with the v.3 they sold me. In the meantime I completed setting up my system and didn't like the sound of the CC. So I ordered the CC-370. In the end I echanged my CC-270 v.3 for the CC-370 v.4. The sound is greatly improved. I have no way of knowing how much improvemnt was from going from the 270 to 370 and how much can be contributed to going from v.3 to v.4. But, I would recommend exchanging waht you got for the v.4.

So far HUGELY disappointed with the Paradigms.

.


Are you disappointed with their sound or the dents?

I'm thinking of getting Studio 60's/ CC470/ and ADP 470's for my HT.

I am moving and setting up a new basement HT.

Current Speaker setup
Monitor 7 mains
CC-370 center
mini monitor Surrounds
SVS pci 20-39 Sub

The new room will allow me to move to a 7.1 settup

Option 1
Get APD-370's for side surronds and move the mini's to the rear

Option 2
Get OW monitor 5's for surrounds and move the mini's to the rear

I am more of a fan of direct firing speakers for the surrounds but all the people that rave agout the adp-370's have me considering them.

Anybody using the ow monitor 5's as surrounds?

I would spend the extra $200 and get the cc570

Hey, where do you guys with Studio 60's set the crossover on your receiver? I can't decide if I like 60 or 80hz better and the measurements show that they blend well with my sub at both.

Hey, where do you guys with Studio 60's set the crossover on your receiver? I can't decide if I like 60 or 80hz better and the measurements show that they blend well with my sub at both.


If it blends well at both settings, that is a good problem to have :)

I have my 60's set to 60hz along with the center 570 with the surrounds (ADP470 and rears, 20's) set at 80hz. Swithing back and forth with 80hz the difference was barely distinguishable to my ear. Every room and setup is likely to be different though so experiment to see what works in your room.

VideoKng - I am disappointed in the dents and the "too bad" attitude. The speakers sound good - they may sound better when the tweeters are fixed. I am selling my ADP 470s and CC470 (both just over a month old and in perfect condition) if you're interested.

Sgt_Strider - I believe Audio Video are also an authorized dealer in Vancouver. I don't think anyone else is.

I would spend the extra $200 and get the cc570He has a 370, not 470, so the difference would be $400 to upgrade to the 570 (unless you know of some amazing deal somewhere..)
Hey, where do you guys with Studio 60's set the crossover on your receiver? I can't decide if I like 60 or 80hz better and the measurements show that they blend well with my sub at both.Mine is set at 80Hz with 60s and an SVS PB-12. I'll be upgrading to 100s at Christmas and will probably switch to 60Hz at that time, and will for sure switch once I add a separate 2-channel amplifier.

They should rename this thread " what studio series speaker should I get 20-40-60"

Though to the one or two that made sarcastic remarks I will boost my post count as you did, since I'm into that.

He has a 370, not 470, so the difference would be $400 to upgrade to the 570 (unless you know of some amazing deal somewhere..)


Joined dec '02, thanks for the non-information.

Just wondered what people thouhgt of the adp's over direct firing for side surrounds, though your help has been quite informative miltmj, you could have phoned that one in.

Joined dec '02, thanks for the non-information.

Just wondered what people thouhgt of the adp's over direct firing for side surrounds, though your help has been quite informative miltmj, you could have phoned that one in.
Holy attitude check, Batman. I wasn't responding to your comment. I was mentioning that it's more of an upgrade than clrv had mentioned (and was also inferring that it wasn't necessary, but I suppose I should have explicitly mentioned that).

Sorry for the non-information.. I didn't realize I was obligated to respond.. :rolleyes:

Sorry for the non-information.. I didn't realize I was obligated to respond.. :rolleyes:

Though not obligated, thanks

Now that I have time to respond to your particular question.. ;)

Though I don't have the monitor series, obviously the dipole/direct comparison applies regardless of model. I think it comes down to what you prefer. Audition each type if you can at all possible. It seems like you're set on directs.. try the 370s all around (side & rear) and the directs, and get whichever you like. I'm a fan of the dipole concept, but I haven't quite auditioned each scenario as much as I'd like to really form my own opinion on them yet.

One main factor in what to choose is the size of your room, and how far the surrounds are from the closest listening position, especially the rears from the rear-most listening location. The closer it is, the more you should consider dipoles regardless of preference (IMO), since you'll need that dispersion (whereas farther away, the directs will blend better before arriving at the listener).

Hello there...I'm new to the site...I just upgraded my receiver -I know have a yamaha RX-V657 and I feel that my speakers may also need to be upgraded...I have been listening to my trusted old paradigm 3SeMKII front speakers for several years now, along with a paradigm centre speaker CC100 and as surrounds I have Paradigm micros v3 and my subwoofer is the Paradigm PDR8...
my question is...are the 3SeMKII (classic ones!) still good enough for HT (70%) and music listening (30%) along with the older centre speaker? would upgrading my centre speaker to a newer Paradigm speaker make a big difference? or should I upgrade all 3 front speakers or as a final option should I just wait til I can afford a whole new set such as the Paradigm cinema 110? for now, budget is limeted (after also getting the Panasonic s77 HDMI dvd player)...

please help!! you guys seem to know everything there's to know about paradigm speakers..

Thanks
Erick

If it blends well at both settings, that is a good problem to have :)

I have my 60's set to 60hz along with the center 570 with the surrounds (ADP470 and rears, 20's) set at 80hz. Swithing back and forth with 80hz the difference was barely distinguishable to my ear. Every room and setup is likely to be different though so experiment to see what works in your room.

Yep: every room and setup is different. You might want to run a frequency sweep from 120hz through 40hz with a sound meter on both settings to see whether or not one setting gives you a flatter curve.

Another thought: crossovers are not "hard," so that at the 80hz setting your 60's will be contributing to the sound down to 60hz and lower. A 60hz setting may task the 60's much more below 60hz, for which they are not intended.

jdg

Another thought: crossovers are not "hard," so that at the 80hz setting your 60's will be contributing to the sound down to 60hz and lower. A 60hz setting may task the 60's much more below 60hz, for which they are not intended. jdg
As I understand it, an 80 setting means the main speakers will contribute to the sound down to 80 hz and then crossover to the subwoofer. Where does this extra 20 hz buffer come from? Also, according to the spec' sheet for the Studio series, the 60s offer low frequency response down to 30 Hz, so why do you say "they're not intended to go below 60 hz?" :confused:

As I understand it, an 80 setting means the main speakers will contribute to the sound down to 80 hz and then crossover to the subwoofer. Where does this extra 20 hz buffer come from? Also, according to the spec' sheet for the Studio series, the 60s offer low frequency response down to 30 Hz, so why do you say "they're not intended to go below 60 hz?" :confused:

(Somebody correct me if I ge this wrong:) Both speakers (mains and sub) contribute one octave? above and below the crossover setting. That is, at a 80hz crossover setting, both the mains and sub are 50/50. At 100hz, the mains contribute 12Db more than the sub, and at 60hz the sub contributes 12Db more than the mains. That is, at 60Hz the mains are still contributing a discernable amount of sound.

Yes: the 60's will go below 60hz, but IIRC the rating is is telling you that the volume starts to fall out of the +/-3Db rated frequency curve. Thus, the output is not as predictable as within the rated range.

Bottom line is use a sound meter and run frequency sweeps through the crossover range. All this discussion is at best an estimate for your particular setup. For example, I use 100hz for my crossover as the mains are corner loaded (unavoidable in my room) and the I get a nasty bump at 80hz using the standard crossover.

jdg

I am considering upgrading from mini monitors for mains. I currently also use a CC-370, Atoms for surround, Micros for rear surround, along with a PDR-10. The Monitor 7 would fit nicely in my room setup, but I have not heard it yet. Would the Studio 20 be a better bet for an upgrade over the Monitor 7 for about the same price? Has anybody here looked at a similar upgrade path? I also want to upgrade the PDR-10 and I'm thinking about the PW-2100. Thoughts anyone?Thanks.

s2silber,

As JohnDG alluded to, crossovers are sloped. Meaning, at the crossover point they start to slope to a change in sound pressure level (dB) per octave. Usually 24dB or 12dB. So one octave lower, and the sound is still being reproduced, but at that much less magnitude.

Google turned up this relatively informative link:
http://www.goodsound.com/howto/2001_06_15.htm


eirepaul,

Welcome to the forums! If you have a decent sub (especially if you upgrade your PDR-10), then the Studio 20s will most likely sound better than the 7s. I thought about 9s initially, and ended up getting 60s (because 40s + stands cost just as much).

The closer it is, the more you should consider dipoles regardless of preference (IMO), since you'll need that dispersion (whereas farther away, the directs will blend better before arriving at the listener).

miltimj, sorry if I was out of line earlier, bad day. I think accurate room measurement's will make the choice for me as you suggest. Thanks for the info.

A little help Guys

I want to do an upgrade to my system next month but I only have the funds to do one of the following: Upgrade my Center from a CC-450 to a CC-570 or add a better 2C Amp to my Mains such as the Anthem P2 or the Parasound Halo A21. I use my system 80% Movies and 20% Music.

I'm looking for opinions on which would be the biggest difference maker for my system and some answers to the following Questions:

1. Will I hear a big difference between the CC-450 and CC-570 Centers?

2. Would a new 2c amp make a major improvement in my 100's for movies or just music?

3. Should I lean more towards the Halo A21 because my HCA-2205AT will power the other speakers or will the Anthem P2 blend just as well with the HCA-2205AT?

Thanks for your help

Rob

My Current System:

Pre/Pro Anthem Statement D1
Parasound HCA-2205AT 5x 220w
Onkyo THX828 receiver used only as amp for rears

Mains: (2) Paradigm Studio 100’s V2
Center: (1) Paradigm CC-450
Sides: (2) Paradigm ADP-450
Rears: (2) Paradigm ADP-150
Subs: (2) SVS 16-46 CS–Plus & Samson 2x 500w amp

Panasonic RP91 DVD Player
Sony HS10 Projector
Stewart Fire hawk Screen 100” HD

Theater Room size: 15’x22’x7’

Here is what i have: Paradigm studio 40's V3, Paradigm Studio cc-570 V3, Paradigm Studio ADP 470's V3, infinity SW12 sub with RABOS applied, Denon 4806 Receiver. My crossovers were: 40's at 40, 570 at 40 and 470's at 60. After reading some items on this thread and looking at the Paradigm website, i have changed the crossovers to: 40's = 60, 570 = 60, 470's at 80. Let me get this right in my mind. For the crossovers - Do not use the +- 3db rating - use the frequency response as stated by Paradigm. Am i getting this correct?

Yes, so setting the 60's at a 60hz crossover still places it well within its specs which indicate that it is good down to 30hz or so. Setting it to 40hz would be pushing it though.

(Somebody correct me if I ge this wrong:) Both speakers (mains and sub) contribute one octave? above and below the crossover setting. That is, at a 80hz crossover setting, both the mains and sub are 50/50. At 100hz, the mains contribute 12Db more than the sub, and at 60hz the sub contributes 12Db more than the mains. That is, at 60Hz the mains are still contributing a discernable amount of sound.

Yes: the 60's will go below 60hz, but IIRC the rating is is telling you that the volume starts to fall out of the +/-3Db rated frequency curve. Thus, the output is not as predictable as within the rated range.

Bottom line is use a sound meter and run frequency sweeps through the crossover range. All this discussion is at best an estimate for your particular setup. For example, I use 100hz for my crossover as the mains are corner loaded (unavoidable in my room) and the I get a nasty bump at 80hz using the standard crossover.

jdg

Updated the old system.

Mains: Studio 20s
Sides: Adp-470s
Rears: Studio 20s.

Driven by Pioneer 1014. <- the next upgrade point... maybe next year.

Day 1. Still adjusting to the ADP470s, need to get them mounted (current on a shelf that is too big for them) and get the wife convinced. She says, "Yes the surround is more enveloping, but it's not as rich." Yeah, but that's because there isn't a Studio 20 firing directly at your head now.

I sort of agree with her, but for the subtleness really pulls you into a movie, which is why I got the ADPs. Sometimes the 20 just said, "HEY! I'm generating sound RIGHT HERE". Very Distracting.

s2silber,

eirepaul,

Welcome to the forums! If you have a decent sub (especially if you upgrade your PDR-10), then the Studio 20s will most likely sound better than the 7s. I thought about 9s initially, and ended up getting 60s (because 40s + stands cost just as much).

I am thinking that I would like to go floor-standing though. I like the idea of the Monitor 7s at the front with the minis for surrounds. Isn't there something to be said for staying within the monitor series, otherwise wouldn't I have to think about upgrading the center as well for the best integration? It would start to get expensive at that rate. I am looking at a SVS PB-10 sub - I have read great things about them and they are at a good price.

Will,

No problem.. we all have those days. Sometimes my fingers still type even though I'm biting my tongue.. :)

devinjc,

It seems that you may just have your ADPs turned down too low. She probably enjoyed a louder surround effect (even if slightly out of balance with the mains), so turning them up a bit will make them "sound better" to her ears (possibly yours?), and still be more enveloping than the directs you had.

eirepaul,

It does make sense that you'd upgrade the system somewhat together - at least the mains and center at the same time, and the surrounds relatively soon after, if at all possible. As you said, that can get expensive. Of course, you can sell your current system to recoup some of that cost.

Is there a reason that you want a floor-stander? Aren't your minis currently on stands? Not that I'm trying to steer you away from them.. I prefer them as well. But you can get more bang for your buck in the 20s/40s (assuming you don't have to buy stands), but as I said, you'd probably want to get a center with it and eventually surrounds.

So basically, it's a matter of how often you want to upgrade. I'm not sure how much of an improvement you'd gain from mini-mons to 7s, as I haven't compared those directly. The best thing to do is compare them at a dealer, and see what you think.

I have an set of Studio 20's V.2. Is it possible to upgrade thier tweeter's to the V.3 aluminum tweeter?

Good idea about turning the ADPs up some Tim, I'll have to give that a try. I just ran the MCACC and went to listening. Usually I go back and check with a meter as well. Plus I really need to get them off the shelves and on the walls.

I must say though, I've now watched Alien and Temple of Doom (yeah, so those aren't exactly what you'd call good test movies, just what I was in the mood for) and I have to admit, the rear soundstage is pretty solid now. I haven't localized a speaker once, and everything sounds more... natural is the word that comes to mind.

I think the ADP-470s are going to be just the thing in my 10ft wide room.

Will,

eirepaul,

It does make sense that you'd upgrade the system somewhat together - at least the mains and center at the same time, and the surrounds relatively soon after, if at all possible. As you said, that can get expensive. Of course, you can sell your current system to recoup some of that cost.

Is there a reason that you want a floor-stander? Aren't your minis currently on stands? Not that I'm trying to steer you away from them.. I prefer them as well. But you can get more bang for your buck in the 20s/40s (assuming you don't have to buy stands), but as I said, you'd probably want to get a center with it and eventually surrounds.

So basically, it's a matter of how often you want to upgrade. I'm not sure how much of an improvement you'd gain from mini-mons to 7s, as I haven't compared those directly. The best thing to do is compare them at a dealer, and see what you think.

Thanks for the advice. Yes, my minis are on stands. The reason I am looking at the 7s is because I figure they will sound somewhat better than the minis, I like their appearance, and my minis would move to the rears, thereby completing a monitor series system. My next move is to compare them at my local dealer to assess if it is a worthwhile upgrade. The other alternative is to begin getting into the Studio series, but I'm not sure if I want to spend that much just yet. The Monitor series would likely satisfy me for a while. Why do you prefer floor-standers?

I have some crossover questions for yas ~
I have a denon 3805 & with 40's up front CC-350 - Cinemas in the rear with a PDR 8 sub
I set the crossover on the 3805 to 80hz ( on the 3805 you can only set it for all speakers)
So the PDR8 cas a Variable 50 Hz – 150 Hz should I set that to 80 Hz also ?
If the speakers are set to Large they will get full range and the 80HZ cutoff will not affect the speakers correct ?
Guess some of this question belongs in the 3505 thread
Thanks ~

I have some crossover questions for yas ~
I have a denon 3805 & with 40's up front CC-350 - Cinemas in the rear with a PDR 8 sub
I set the crossover on the 3805 to 80hz ( on the 3805 you can only set it for all speakers)
So the PDR8 cas a Variable 50 Hz – 150 Hz should I set that to 80 Hz also ?
If the speakers are set to Large they will get full range and the 80HZ cutoff will not affect the speakers correct ?
Guess some of this question belongs in the 3505 thread
Thanks ~

Normally you will use the receiver's crossover setting only, setting the sub's crossover to off or the max (150 Hz in your case.)

However, I've worked with the PDR-10 -- so I would think it will work for the PDR-8 (similiar design) -- , and I've found something interesting: turning down the cross-over on the sub really allows you to boost the low-end, and flattens out the frequency repsonse curve (FR).

I found this info at http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/ht_loudspeakers/paradigm-stylus.html. The FR chart shows that, by moving the sub's cross-over down to 90Hz (I use 100Hz), that you can turn up the sub, and thus the low ranges, without adding to the 40-100Hz range. I've checked this out on my sub, and the FR results are very flat, less a room induced lull at 45Hz that I would need an equalizer to remove.

jdg

I have reference Paradigms (CC-450, ADP-450).. And a PW-2200 sub.. They're about 8 years old..

Except for the fronts, which are reletively cheap Sound Dynamics from my old system..

I kept meaning to upgrade them to some moniter 7's.. But then came the kids, the new car, the mattress, the RRSP's, etc, etc, etc..

But I'm getting a new house, and, gosh darn it, I'll have the fronts to do my their reference bretheren proud!!

What would be the best fit? I see the names and numbers have changed alot since I bought my other speakers..

I also plan to upgrade to 7.1 sound.. So will be getting some direct firing rears..

Suggestions?

Receiver suggestions? I like Yamaha.. I currently have an RX-V793 5.1 reciever..

My buget for fronts is about $1500 Cdn (1300 Am), same for the rears, which I think may have to be freestanding.. For the reciever.. $2000 Cdn (1700 Am)?

Mains: Studio 20s
Sides: Adp-470s
Rears: Studio 20s.

Center?

This a room setup question. I have a room that's about 10'x11'. I'm going to be setting up a HT in it. Currently I have a pair of v4 titans for the mains. Going to be driving all the speakers with a panasonic xr55. I would like to setup a 7.1 in this bedroom. What i'm having problems with is surround speaker selection. I originally was going to buy 4 atoms, a cc170 center, and a mirage s10 sub to complete the package. Now since this is such a small room and i'm trying to be as cheap as possible. The listening area is right up against the back wall (bed).
How overkill is this? I Noticed the ADP 170 and the whole direct vs. dipole. The room will probably be about 50% music and 50% movies. A little more emphasis on music. SACD's will be played and demo'ed in the room. Obviously I want good sound quality and I tend to overkill things. Question would be, is there a cheaper setup that I can do to complete the titans without it looking too ugly and out of place.

Thanks!

What's the retail price of the CC-570 ? US funds ?

Regards,
Jose

What's the retail price of the CC-570 ? US funds ?

Regards,
Jose
MSRP is $850 US

I wonder why Paradign doesn't list msrp on their site ?

How much would these 2 systems cost msrp ? I'm getting a big itch to upgrade my speakers.. It's been since 1988 that I have my current system.. Just like to know if I have to sell one of my cars ... lol

Sys. 1:
Studio 100's (main)
Studio 570 center
4 - Studio 40's (side & rear)

System 2:
S8 (main)
C5 center
4- S4(rear & side)

How much of a difference in sound quality would be between the two systems ? The only reason I'd look at the Sig. line is because of the "C5", it's looks awesome....

Thanks for the info.

Regads,
Jose

You can get an idea in the recomended systems
http://www.paradigm.com/Website/SiteReferenceProduct/RModels/SystemChoice/systems.html

Center?


Don't have one. Narrow room, rarely more than 2 viewers. Shop full of new woodworking tools competing with speaker budget. I'll probably get one eventually, but no rush, as I'm always in a sweet spot.

I always thought you needed one, for dialogue especially..

If you sellect NO Center speaker in the set up the reciever will send the dialog info to the R&L

No, no.. I understand that..

I just was under the impression that it was better to have a dedicated center for dialogue.. That it sounded better coming from right in front of you rather than from the sides..

Correct and the 20s image well enough (to me) make the center unnecessary (to me). There's a lot of arguments for both sides of the center vs. phantom center scenario. Ideally I'll get another 20 to use as a center, but it might be awhile before my room is set up to allow that.

As it is, I never have dialog issues (see many posts about dialog being out of whack) and no one has ever said, "God the front stage isn't anchored to the screen at all." A room that is 9.5' wide helps, in that it's hard to get out of the sweet spot.

Dialogue still comes from right in front of me. If I heard it coming from the sides, I would get a center.

Ideally I'll get another 20 to use as a center

Why not a CC-470?

But, as you say, if it ain't broke..

Another S20 would be an exact match to the current fronts, the 470 will capable would not be as seamless as the 20 would be. Since I have the S20s in the rear, I'll probably use one of those as a test one day to see if it really makes a difference in my room.

Of course, the wife would love to hear that I need to buy more speakers. :)

Not to split hairs, but if that's so, why do they bother making centers at all?

Why do they have they have them as part of the packages on their site?

Because a single matching speaker doesn't fit in most peoples set ups. Center speakers are a compromise because they fit under or above televisions much easier than upright speakers.

For example, in my current setup a cc470/570 would sit right at the base of the tv just fine, but a Studio 20 at the proper height would block part of the screen.

Hmm..

Interesting.. :)

Not to split hairs, but if that's so, why do they bother making centers at all?

Why do they have they have them as part of the packages on their site?

Center channels are necessary in many people's listening rooms to lock dialog and central effects to the screen. Not everyone can sit in the sweet spot and it is distracting to hear dialog from the near main channel instead of the screen/display.

If you always sit in the sweet spot and you don't have guests sitting off-center, you should try running no center-channel to see if you think it's better or not.

I wonder why Paradign doesn't list msrp on their site ?

How much would these 2 systems cost msrp ? I'm getting a big itch to upgrade my speakers.. It's been since 1988 that I have my current system.. Just like to know if I have to sell one of my cars ... lol

Sys. 1:
Studio 100's (main)
Studio 570 center
4 - Studio 40's (side & rear)

System 2:
S8 (main)
C5 center
4- S4(rear & side)

How much of a difference in sound quality would be between the two systems ? The only reason I'd look at the Sig. line is because of the "C5", it's looks awesome....

Thanks for the info.

Regads,
Jose

Jose,

Paradigm retail prices can be found here. (http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.htm#Paradigm)
Only you can decide if the Sigs are worth the extra money over the Refs.

Robert

Well, I finally got the ADP470s dialed in, and the rear 20s positioned better and I gotta say the 20/adp470/20 set up is a pretty massive improvement over the 20/20/atom setup.

Last night I had the chance to watch the movie that really made me feel that directs were simply too aggressive for my room width and seating. In "A tale of two sisters" (excellent flick btw) in chapter 11, there is a door that closes abruptly that should come from over your left shoulder. With the 20s as sides, it noticeably came from the 20 (it is a very loud door slam) and didn't quite jive with the spatial cues of the film. With the ADPs the sound of the door was almost perfectly placed as if I were in the room with the characters. So good in fact, that it scared the crap out of me even though I was waiting for it. Of course, the fact that I have a doorway there without a door added to that. Nothing like watching a ghost story and having doors close in your house that aren't there.

So, now I'm in the Dipole camp that I never thought I would join. Big fan of directs, but in smaller rooms, or at least my narrow room, the ADPs are the ticket for true immersion.

Now to figure how best to restore the DVD-A experience. Without a dedicated room though, I think a solid hi-res music/movie system is just going to be a compromise, or one that's great at one, and only good at another.

devinjc , if your room and system are set up properly, sacd and dvd-audio will sound awesome with your adp's.

Hi Guys:
I've been using Paradigms for about 10 years now and love the sound, and great bang for the buck!
Home theater
Mains: Mini Mons, modded with solan caps and a resistor to bleed a small amount of mid into the tweeter to smooth out the xi-over.
Center: CC-370
Surrounds: ADP-370
Sub: PW-2200
Drive by a Denon 3805.
Music system:
Reference Active 20 on 20" DIY stands, sand filled

Here are some pics with screen shots:
Mike

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgallery.php?cat=501&ppuser=7459444

Ok, thanks for the follow up, Devin..

Now I'm that much more confident getting the ADP's

Is anyone using ADPs against the back wall with the sofa against that wall ?

Denon 4802
Yamaha YP-D6 (with Grado Gold)
Sony SCD-CE775
Toshiba SD-3900

Studio 60/v2 front
Studio CC/v2
Studio 20/v2 rear
PW-2200 sub

Very happy with the setup

People should start posting pics of their setups :)

Did some listening and will purchase next week but I am in a bit of a dilemma. I read this thread. Wow

Receiver: Yamaha RXV1600 120w 7.1 rec. ( should be ok)
Sony 60"SXRD
Sony DVpES3100

60% movies/TV/DVD, 40% music
Room Configuration: family room size, 16Lx14w,12H ( cathedral ceiling sloping up from 8'-12').
Floors carpet, walls treated @ 5' from floor. The room opens to one side into a large kitchen bar area. All furniture is leather.


Mains: Looking Monitor 7's until I heard the Studio 60's.
Center: CC470
Rear: The dealer suggest the ADP470's, but my 7' leather couch is against the wall and one side is open to a large kitchen bar area. Looks like a lot have this problem.
SubWoofer: PS1000

My problems is with the rear speakers, not sure how to position or even use this speaker.

Thanks for the help and/or comments

Hey Mav..

Looks like you're kind of in the same boat as me (see my room config. pics I posted earlier in this thread).

Unless you can scoot that couch away from the wall at least 2-3 feet, you may have to fogo 7.1 sound, as you won't be able to do rears.. You'll just have the 2 surrounds (ADP's or studio 20s depending on wether you prefer ambient or directional sound) at either side of your couch on the walls..

I know Doug and that is a total bummer. The wife has already mentioned, , do not attempt to move the sofa 3 ft from the wall. So I need to look for another alternative, hummm

I know Doug and that is a total bummer. The wife has already mentioned, , do not attempt to move the sofa 3 ft from the wall. So I need to look for another alternative, hummm
Mav,

You could do what I did in my old house... When the time comes to REALLY watch the movie that demands the full 7.1 experience, temporally move the couch away that 3' that is needed. When the movie is over, slide it back to the normal position.

Your wife will think you are a total GEEK (like mine did) but should be okay with a quick move out and back arrangement.

Steve

Steve great idea should have thought of that. I am trying to get her or give her the idea that we need those great theater recliners. The black leather babies. Then the back wall would not be a problem. That ought to go over big. I could buy a lot of speaker for the price of those two chairs. Even move up to those
Sig 2's.