Congratulations guys looks like things are finally coming together for you. Oh by the way look what showed up on my doorstep today :D

Sweet bro.... Congrats... those things are gunna rock... check the color... I'll put money on it that those match my S4's perfectly....

you guys are way ahead of me mine wont be setup for a while since we are doing other renovations around the house and the second system which include the s8's is getting setup last.... and yes they are the rosewood ones that were on audiogon.

Wow it's a party over here with all you guys getting new gear! :D

Congrats AbMagFab! I'm sure it has felt like a long time to get to this point. I'm jealous of your room. :cool:

Congrats Warpdrv! A better system in your bedroom than most people's dedicated rooms. Now that is devotion to the hobby.

And finally, congrats funlvr1965! You just couldn't wait to break them out of their boxes I see. ;) Just be very careful with them as you complete your remodeling projects.

And finally, congrats funlvr1965! You just couldn't wait to break them out of their boxes I see. ;) Just be very careful with them as you complete your remodeling projects.

Actually the last images posted are the ones from the original owner that he sent to me in the course of our transactions, these arent coming out of their boxes until ALL of our remodel work is done but we are meeting with all the people involved in the work starting today and firming up dates for them to start work so it will begin soon. On my end Im trying to familiarize myself with the audio/video part of it, the sony 777es, 400 cd/dvd/sacd changer.proceed AVP2 processor,Oppo 980hd, Anthem A5 amp, Harmony 1000 touchscreen all have to be integrated into the system the 73" mitsubishi dlp also gets a new larger stand to hold all the new equipment so I will have my hands full

You seriously need a 60" or larger TV. :D

Well I bought the mount for a 50" plasma so when I'm ready to upgrade the Great room plasma, I'll bring that one into the bedroom....

That camera really narrows the view in a weird way....

Wow it's a party over here with all you guys getting new gear! :D

Congrats AbMagFab! I'm sure it has felt like a long time to get to this point. I'm jealous of your room. :cool:

Congrats Warpdrv! A better system in your bedroom than most people's dedicated rooms. Now that is devotion to the hobby.

And finally, congrats funlvr1965! You just couldn't wait to break them out of their boxes I see. ;) Just be very careful with them as you complete your remodeling projects.

Thanks Tim....

As I am completely aware of the drawbacks of a 2 1/2 way speaker and the intermodulation distortion issues they are prone to... I am still thrilled with the stellar performance of the S4's... I am no golden ear, but I still appreciate the SQ and performance they offer... I seriously couldn't pass up the price that I was able to get into these gorgeous looking speakers. Had I had the opportunity to jump into some S6's with a 3 way design, I probably would have gone that direction instead. But at what cost, close to 3 times what I spent here.... Hmmm Looking at it another way, the savings allowed me the ability to get my hands on a JL F112, which is a downright amazing sub in its own right... :)

Thanks Tim....

As I am completely aware of the drawbacks of a 2 1/2 way speaker and the intermodulation distortion issues they are prone to... I am still thrilled with the stellar performance of the S4's... I am no golden ear, but I still appreciate the SQ and performance they offer... I seriously couldn't pass up the price that I was able to get into these gorgeous looking speakers. Had I had the opportunity to jump into some S6's with a 3 way design, I probably would have gone that direction instead. But at what cost, close to 3 times what I spent here.... Hmmm Looking at it another way, the savings allowed me the ability to get my hands on a JL F112, which is a downright amazing sub in its own right... :)

Yeah, I've owned both the S8 and the S4 and the midrange is a bit cleaner in the S8, but you could only tell if they were side by side it is so slight. I love the design of the S4 though. That extra bass driver makes integration to a sub much smoother.

Yeah, I've owned both the S8 and the S4 and the midrange is a bit cleaner in the S8, but you could only tell if they were side by side it is so slight. I love the design of the S4 though. That extra bass driver makes integration to a sub much smoother.

Thanks for that little tidbit of info on the similarities between the S4 and S8, it makes me feel better that they sound so similar, as I don't have anywhere to audition Paradigm Sigs anywhere around here, I got these on a whim, knowing I already like the sound signature of the Studio's, I figured it was worth the gamble.... :)

I'll be making that comparison on the Receiver amp/IcePower tonight and report back for to ya...

I'll be making that comparison on the Receiver amp/IcePower tonight and report back for to ya...

Sweet! I'm on the verge of buying the Power5 to compliment my 3808 and S4 v2/C3 v2/ADP-590 combo. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

Since my use for these speakers is about 85-90% home theater, can any of you who have listened and compared both justify the additional expense for going up to the Signature S8/C5?

Just need to bounce this off of some of my fellow Paradigm lovers. Thanks!


No! If you love movies go with the complete package. I was in a lower bracket a little while ago with a scenario of Monitor vs. Studio speakers and went with the Monitor series. Haven't regreted my decision and still have a little extra change to stock up on Blu ray gear.

Warp - Nice setup! That rosewood is really nice looking...

Yeah, the photos never do it justice. My S6's in the above pictures look puny, and they're almost too big for the room, but you can't tell from the pictures.

And the PB13 Ultra is huge, and it looks like it's not much bigger than a Sunfire or something.

Anyway, congrats again! Glad to see it all come together for you.

(Did you resolve the humming?)

Yeah all these pictures are so deceiving, It just never looks right...

The S4's are pretty good size speakers, and I know the S6's are the size of the 100's, yet they don't look anywhere near as large.

I haven't resolved the Hum/buzz, I'm pretty sure its directly in the receiver, but I got some new heavily shielded cables coming to rule out the cables. Reconnecting the speakers to the receiver, I noticed a slight buzz by itself, that I never really noticed, but obviously was there. If there wasn't so much drama involved with the Onkyo Pro/Integra 9.8, I probably would have already had one, and would be running balanced cables by now...

I am thinking of picking up 3 paradigm millenia 20s as LRC set up however i dont have much space in the rear and was wondering if i could mix/match say with a small pair or mythos gems as rears on stand.

Let me know what would work

thanks

I started this thread, but it hasn't given me much feedback to go on.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1012827

I have tried the B&W 804S and HTM3S speakers, but wanted opinions on how the S6 and C5 would compare.

I started this thread, but it hasn't given me much feedback to go on.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1012827

I have tried the B&W 804S and HTM3S speakers, but wanted opinions on how the S6 and C5 would compare.


Hey there FAUguy... as was stated in your thread, both are commendable speaker packages, and the only way to find which sounds better to your ears is to spend a good amount of time with each... I wouldn't worry so much about HT audition, as music at this point. You will get far more out of an audition with 2 channel audio and make sure you have a good range of different music to bring. Any speaker will work just fine with HT as with music, but music can certainly bring out the nuances in the different aspects that HT couldn't possibly reveal.

Are both these speakers at the same dealer..? I assume not..

As you have promptly stopped at the Paradigm thread, I think you will know what kind of idea's you get here.....

As Jonomega had stated in your thread, in which I completely agree, the further you go up the line in the B&W's the more laid back they started to get. Until you get to the 802D which is a completely inert and neutral speaker, allowing one to add or remove coloration to achieve any such results one desires... if one would be so inclined...

Paradigms tend to have a somewhat forward type nature to them, punchy in the midrange, but very accurate to my ears... To my ears, I didn't find the love in B&W until I hit the 803D's and at that point they were well out of my price range... I am dying to hear the .v2 series but if they are anything like the .v1's and better, they will have my heart...

Good luck in your auditions, bring music you are totally passionate about and let the speakers tell their own tale.. :)

I got to admit the sigs have a fit and finish second to none.

I got to admit the sigs have a fit and finish second to none.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/Bedroom/Bedroom004.jpg

Tell me that is not a sexy looking speaker... :D

Maybe I'm just a bit partial....

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/Bedroom/Bedroom004.jpg

Tell me that is not a sexy looking speaker... :D

Maybe I'm just a bit partial....

I agree! My Cherry S4 v2 is furniture quality. My cherry SVS PB-12 Plus is beautiful as well..someone mistook it for a high end wine cooler. LOL

I started this thread, but it hasn't given me much feedback to go on.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1012827

I have tried the B&W 804S and HTM3S speakers, but wanted opinions on how the S6 and C5 would compare.

Here's a quote from another thread I started, where I ended up with Sigs:
Honestly, the Signatures and 803D's were really close. When I listened to the B&W's, I had a similar experience - the 804S's seemed muted and processed, and the 803D's seemed clean, pure, true, etc. And it's for similar reasons too, I'd guess - the better tweeter and midrange drivers.

The only negative for me with the 803D was they seemed a little bright. I found myself actually wincing a couple of times. It was minor, but it did get me. And the room for the B&W's was all accoustically treated, so I think it really was the speakers. The B&W's sounded a little worse to me at low-levels as well, but I chalked that up to the rooms. I listened at two dealers in my area, both set up similarly.

The other main issue is practical - the 803D center is the HTM2D, which is just monstrous. I don't think I could put it in my room. I think the power needs of the B&W's are bigger as well. And given that I had a slightly better experience with the Paradigm Sig's (albeit days later and in a completely different listening environment), and the B&W 803D setup is like another 50% more expensive, I decided on the Sig's.

I just fell in love with the Sig's, with no caveats. I had a minor caveat with the sound of the B&W's, coupled with the potential size issue, and the not-insignificant price difference, it made my decision easy.

Had I not heard (and loved) the Sig's, I would likely have figured out how to make the 803D/HTM2D setup work in my room, as it was the only other speaker setup I've heard that had that "something special". Everything else I've heard was great sound, but didn't make me subconsciously smile, like the Sig's and 803D's did.

And here's the thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=988406

Hope this helps!

Saga of my S2 continues... they came out to replace the driver, and it made no difference. So it looks like it's the tweeter. They're ordering it and I should have it next week.

Frankly, the S6's are what I was dying for, so I'm a happy camper for now. Although the S2 needs to get fixed soon, as I want to look over my left shoulder again!

Also got my new SMS-1. Wow, what a difference. Even without acoustic treatments yet, it was able to significantly improve my bass, giving me a much flatter response that I was getting before. And it sounds amazing.

Parametric equalization is nice. I wish I had something like this for the enture 5-25k, not just the bass.

Also got my new SMS-1. Wow, what a difference. Even without acoustic treatments yet, it was able to significantly improve my bass, giving me a much flatter response that I was getting before. And it sounds amazing.

Parametric equalization is nice. I wish I had something like this for the enture 5-25k, not just the bass.

Cool, glad you got the SMS to work.... they are great for smoothing out your room... Make sure check to see your running with the latest software update... This is very important, or it will cut out all the material below 20hz steeply...

Just wait until you get Dual Ultras runnin in there....

Cool, glad you got the SMS to work.... they are great for smoothing out your room... Make sure check to see your running with the latest software update... This is very important, or it will cut out all the material below 20hz steeply...

Just wait until you get Dual Ultras runnin in there....

I'm not sure where I'd put the second Ultra! Got to do room treatments first and see how things end up, but right now I've got tons of clean, clear, chest-pounding bass, I can't imagine what a second one would do. Sometimes I swear it's actually causing my shirt to blow.

According to the Velodyne site, the SMS-1 only has one version, and it shipped with it. I actually increased the sub-20hz a little, and it definitely was noticable, so I think I'm okay?

Was this just an issue for the built-in software with their subs, or also the SMS-1? Can you post a link to where an update might be that I missed?

Thanks!

And here's the thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=988406

Hope this helps!
Thanks. About how much was the S6 and C5 from your dealer?
The B&W 804S and HTM3S at $6000 is about the top of my limit.

Thanks. About how much was the S6 and C5 from your dealer?
The B&W 804S and HTM3S at $6000 is about the top of my limit.

We're not supposed to post prices in here, but here's a list price list from a year or so ago:
http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html

So add about 15% (for the price increase this year), then take off 10-20%, depending on how much you buy.

I think the 804S's were comparable in price to the Sigs, and the 804D's about 20% more.

I'm not sure where I'd put the second Ultra! Got to do room treatments first and see how things end up, but right now I've got tons of clean, clear, chest-pounding bass, I can't imagine what a second one would do. Sometimes I swear it's actually causing my shirt to blow.

According to the Velodyne site, the SMS-1 only has one version, and it shipped with it. I actually increased the sub-20hz a little, and it definitely was noticable, so I think I'm okay?

Was this just an issue for the built-in software with their subs, or also the SMS-1? Can you post a link to where an update might be that I missed?

Thanks!
Here is a quick link for you to read through with all the info you need.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13355690#post13355690

Basically just make sure you have Firmware version 2.13, and if you don't then go here http://www.velodyne.com/support/softwareupdates.aspx?sid=130q266m

and grab the firmware, and update it... takes only a minute but fixes the early rolloff that earlier firmware was plagued with... which would cripple the true output of your sub... don't want that.. :)

Its possible your unit would be shipped with older firmware... but you seem to be the latest firmware master, so I'm sure your on top of it...

I've been on a speaker hunt for some on-walls to complement my new plasma. My usage will be 90% HT and 10% music. After auditioning Def Tech mythos, Monitor R250's, Klipsch Quintet SL(50% off) and Paradigm Cinema 330's I decided to go with the 330's (the Monitor R250's were a close second).

The Cinema 330's sounded clean and detailed to me, they weren't harsh at higher volume, the had a huge sound stage and really filled the room nicely. A nice bonus was the wife really like the way they looked with the TV (thanks for the pics || Vitty ||).

Right now I'm looking to get:

Paradigm Cinema 330's (L/R/C)
Paradigm Monitor ADP190's (surround)
SVS PB10-NSD

I wasn't able to hear the ADP190's. I did notice that when I was auditioning the 330's it sounded like the Cinema ADP's had a hard time keeping up.

So a couple of questions before I pull the trigger:

1. Are the ADP190's worth the upgrade over the Cinema ADP?

2. My center will be mounted relatively high so I'll need to angle it downward. Where do I get mounts that can do this? I didn't see any mounts on the Paradigm website. Are mounts included with the speakers?

3. Has anyone auditioned Millenia 20/30 vs. Cinema 220/330? Thoughts?

Here is a quick link for you to read through with all the info you need.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13355690#post13355690

Basically just make sure you have Firmware version 2.13, and if you don't then go here http://www.velodyne.com/support/softwareupdates.aspx?sid=130q266m

and grab the firmware, and update it... takes only a minute but fixes the early rolloff that earlier firmware was plagued with... which would cripple the true output of your sub... don't want that.. :)

Its possible your unit would be shipped with older firmware... but you seem to be the latest firmware master, so I'm sure your on top of it...

I has 2.1, upgraded to 2.1.3. Definitely a little improvement sub-20, and I sealed one of the ports on my sub and put it into 15hz mode, which also improved it. Thanks!

I has 2.1, upgraded to 2.1.3. Definitely a little improvement sub-20, and I sealed one of the ports on my sub and put it into 15hz mode, which also improved it. Thanks!

Good Job buddy.... glad you made the necessary changes.

The roll off was a crippler for Subs with great output below 20hz, it even rolled off before that, which was why so many people had such issues with them, probably before your time of doing research on the SMS.

Here are Before and After pics to show how bad it was before the Firmware update.

Drastic Difference...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/superribbit/charts/05HzSSFilter.png
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/superribbit/charts/05HzSSFilter1.png

I have the new Pioneer receiver the 94 series. Do you think I would be all right to get some monitor 11's or should I go with the reference 60's? If I go with he reference 60's would a 390 center be enough or a 590 center?
Why and what is the biggest difference besides price? BTW I was going to with a siesmic 12 sub.
Thanks,
RR

I have the new Pioneer receiver the 94 series. Do you think I would be all right to get some monitor 11's or should I go with the reference 60's? If I go with he reference 60's would a 390 center be enough or a 590 center?
Why and what is the biggest difference besides price? BTW I was going to with a siesmic 12 sub.
Thanks,
RR
I like their studio line if it is in your budget definitely a step up as for the rest
of the speakers it will sound better if you stay in that line and not mix them.
Subs from them are ok but better can be had from SVS and HSU for less money.

Thanks for the reply.
How much of a difference than is there between the 100's and the 60's?
I just can't make up my mind. I don't want to harras the local dealer too much just wondering from those that know?
Thanks,
RR

Thanks for the reply.
How much of a difference than is there between the 100's and the 60's?
I just can't make up my mind. I don't want to harras the local dealer too much just wondering from those that know?
Thanks,
RR

IMO when i was listening to all the studio's the 100's won my ears over i still
do a lot of 2 channel listening but even with movies the front soundstage
and dynamics are great but yes there is a difference between the 60 and 100.

Thanks for the reply.
How much of a difference than is there between the 100's and the 60's?
I just can't make up my mind. I don't want to harras the local dealer too much just wondering from those that know?
Thanks,
RR

With a good sub, if you do mostly music, there's shouldn't be a huge difference. If you do a lot of 2-channel music, the 100's would be a big improvement from the 60's.

If you feel like you're harassing your dealer, get a new dealer. They should let you sit, listen, and swap speakers as much as you need, especially when you end up paying this knd of cash.

No it will be mostly theater, I don't listen to much music unless I am in the car or at the gym LOL...
As far as the dealer I am very cheap and if they make much on the deal they will be lucky.

No it will be mostly theater, I don't listen to much music unless I am in the car or at the gym LOL...
As far as the dealer I am very cheap and if they make much on the deal they will be lucky.

For authorized dealers, don't expect more than 15-20% off list. They are limited by Paradigm as to how far they can discount, usually based on dollar volume.

Where can I find a site that has prices for paradigm speakers. So frustrating.

For the ADP-1 surrounds, is there a v1 or v2 or are they so new there is just one version? Paradigm's web site REALLY sucks.

Where can I find a site that has prices for paradigm speakers. So frustrating.

Google is your friend.

http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html

Google is your friend.

http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html


I tried google :p Thanks a bunch, very helpful. :)

After another listen to the 330's I'm now the proud owner of this fine setup:

Paradigm Cinema 330 (L/C/R)
Paradigm Monitor ADP190 (surrounds)
Paradigm DSP-3100


I already have:

Panasonic PZ85U
Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH receiver

The new home theater is complete :D Now I just have to hook it all up :(

Any recommendations on speaker wire? 12 or 14AWG?

Do I need the in-wall stuff found here:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2816&seq=1&format=2 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2816&seq=1&format=2)

Or should I run the Oxygen free stuff through my walls?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2816&seq=1&format=2

Where can I find a site that has prices for paradigm speakers. So frustrating.

Look up, on the same page as your post! #7276 from me.

For the ADP-1 surrounds, is there a v1 or v2 or are they so new there is just one version? Paradigm's web site REALLY sucks.

The ADP-1's were just added to the lineup for the Signature series this last revision. So there will not be any .v1 ADP-1's only the .v2 with the beryllium domes. You have nothing to worry about with that model, as I know you are all in on the .v2's.

See here the new listings for the Paradigm lineups...
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=48391


Before the ADP-1's were introduced, they didn't specify 1 or 3... it was just the Signature ADP, which is now designated ADP-3.

After another listen to the 330's I'm now the proud owner of this fine setup:

Paradigm Cinema 330 (L/C/R)
Paradigm Monitor ADP190 (surrounds)
Paradigm DSP-3100


I already have:

Panasonic PZ85U
Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH receiver

The new home theater is complete :D Now I just have to hook it all up :(

Any recommendations on speaker wire? 12 or 14AWG?

Do I need the in-wall stuff found here:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2816&seq=1&format=2 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2816&seq=1&format=2)

Or should I run the Oxygen free stuff through my walls?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2816&seq=1&format=2

Don't worry about the Oxygen free stuff... its a marketing tactic.

Looks to me that you linked both, are exactly the same stuff.. there is no magic hidden inside speaker wire... :)

Any recommendations on speaker wire? 12 or 14AWG?

Or should I run the Oxygen free stuff through my walls?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2816&seq=1&format=2

12 or 14AWG mostly depends on the length of your cables. The cables should not be longer than necessary. Check out: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm If you decide to use bare wire for connection, make sure they fit. 12AWG is too big for a lot of receivers. I don't know about yours.

If you need to run cables through walls, you will need special ones. Wall-ready cables have special fire-resistant sheaths. Check your fire code.

Regarding oxygen-free: decent cables are all oxygen-free. It's actually not so much the oxygen that counts. In fact, removing oxygen is a by-product of removing iron from the copper. Less iron means more copper means better conductivity. If in doubt about any component of your system, conduct comparison tests.

Best - MM

The ADP-1's were just added to the lineup for the Signature series this last revision. So there will not be any .v1 ADP-1's only the .v2 with the beryllium domes. You have nothing to worry about with that model, as I know you are all in on the .v2's.

See here the new listings for the Paradigm lineups...
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=48391


Before the ADP-1's were introduced, they didn't specify 1 or 3... it was just the Signature ADP, which is now designated ADP-3.

Thanks warp! Found a local person selling the cherry ADP-1s and wanted to make sure they weren't an old version. I saw "Signature ADP" speakers on E-bay a few weeks ago and knew those weren't a current model. If I can't work out a good deal with the local ADP-1s I'll wait it out for some ADP-590s.

No problem... there is so little amount of material coming though my surrounds, that I'm totally satisfied with the 590's as my surrounds, but again, the tweeters are definitely a closer match then the metal domes and the beryllium ones on the new Sigs... I think the ADP-1's would be more then adequate for your needs...

Do you still just have the single S4 in cherry...? I would think its going to be pretty hard to find another single like that... That and they sell them as bookend pairs, so that the grain in each speaker matches each other perfectly.

No problem... there is so little amount of material coming though my surrounds, that I'm totally satisfied with the 590's as my surrounds, but again, the tweeters are definitely a closer match then the metal domes and the beryllium ones on the new Sigs... I think the ADP-1's would be more then adequate for your needs...

Do you still just have the single S4 in cherry...? I would think its going to be pretty hard to find another single like that... That and they sell them as bookend pairs, so that the grain in each speaker matches each other perfectly.

I do. I agree the 590s would be good enough for me, but I think I can get a great deal on the local ADP-1s. I'll find out later today if he will accept my offer. Last night he sounded amenable, so I'm optimistic. My C3 v2 arrives today and I can't wait to see and hear it.

My C3 v2 arrives today and I can't wait to see and hear it.

Don't want to spoil it for you, but listened to one this weekend and it looked amazing and sounded amazing. I couldn't believe the detail that came out of that center. You'll love it.

Don't want to spoil it for you, but listened to one this weekend and it looked amazing and sounded amazing. I couldn't believe the detail that came out of that center. You'll love it.
Is there a noticable sound difference between the C3 and C5? Which is a better match to the S6 mains?

Is there a noticable sound difference between the C3 and C5? Which is a better match to the S6 mains?

If you can afford the C5, it's better. It's got an extra pair of drivers for mid/bass, and really fills out the sound. Both the C3 and C5 are amazing of course, but the C5 is just incredible.

And for HT use, the better the center, the better overall.

(I've got a C5, so my opinion is biased.)

Is there a noticable sound difference between the C3 and C5? Which is a better match to the S6 mains?


I think this all relates to the size of the room as well...

I have the C3 and the Studio 690, I don't think the C6 is totally necessary. But If you can afford it like AbMagFab suggests, why the hell not...

The C3 is way more then plenty for my 1800^3 room... and for the $750.00 that I paid, I'm thrilled to death with it. It provides great detail and SQ for vocals and movie action. I don't feel I'm missing anything whatsoever. If your crossing over at 80hz your dumping everything below 80hz anyways.

If you can afford the C5, it's better. It's got an extra pair of drivers for mid/bass, and really fills out the sound. Both the C3 and C5 are amazing of course, but the C5 is just incredible.

And for HT use, the better the center, the better overall.

(I've got a C5, so my opinion is biased.)
Ok. The reason I asked was because I was shocked the C5 was $1400 more than the C3 (looking at the link for the prices). After working the prices out on my own, it looks like the S6 + C3 (after disc) would be alot closer in price to the 804S + HTM3S, where the S6 + C5 is more. I would still want to try both at a dealer to hear what differences there are.

Here is a pricelist from my dealer... http://www.audioemporium.com/2008catalog.pdf


Oh poopy, I forgot that my dealer doesn't list the Sig lineup on there...

But the prices for all the B&W's are there...

Anyone have photos of their Studio v.4s in cherry and/or rosenut? I'm trying to decide on which color for some new studio 100s.

Also, I can get the CC-590 v.4 new for $900 or get the CC-570 v.3 for $600(full 5 year warranty). Is the v.4 worth the extra $300? On paper, it doesn't appear it would be. Anyone actually go for that upgrade?

Thanks.

Ok I need some help with a decision here. A local guy has cherry ADP-3s, nearly unused, that I think I can talk down to 50% off MSRP for the pair. My room is a cozy 10x12x8, so I know they are overkill. I really wanted ADP-590s or ADP-1s, but given this deal dropped in my lap and he lives ten minutes away, I'm considering it.

So my question is, how much of a difference is there in audio quality between the ADP-590 and the ADP-3 for such a small room? Since the surrounds carry mostly "supporting" sound effects I'm thinking the real world difference is probably very small. The system will be used 95% HT, though.

Am I crazy for not instantly taking his offer, or would I have 90% of the audio quality with a pair of 590s for a few hundred less?

12 or 14AWG mostly depends on the length of your cables. The cables should not be longer than necessary. Check out: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm If you decide to use bare wire for connection, make sure they fit. 12AWG is too big for a lot of receivers. I don't know about yours.

If you need to run cables through walls, you will need special ones. Wall-ready cables have special fire-resistant sheaths. Check your fire code.

Regarding oxygen-free: decent cables are all oxygen-free. It's actually not so much the oxygen that counts. In fact, removing oxygen is a by-product of removing iron from the copper. Less iron means more copper means better conductivity. If in doubt about any component of your system, conduct comparison tests.

Best - MM

Great thanks for the info and informative link. After reading your link it looks like I'll be going with 14AWG in-wall cables.

Is monoprice.com the place to get these or can I head to Home Depot and get the same cables?

For 50% off, I would grab the ADP-3's... I assume they are .v2's...

If you ever move to a larger room, you'll be covered, and they will match sonically better then the 590's...

Ok I need some help with a decision here. A local guy has cherry ADP-3s, nearly unused, that I think I can talk down to 50% off MSRP for the pair. My room is a cozy 10x12x8, so I know they are overkill. I really wanted ADP-590s or ADP-1s, but given this deal dropped in my lap and he lives ten minutes away, I'm considering it.

So my question is, how much of a difference is there in audio quality between the ADP-590 and the ADP-3 for such a small room? Since the surrounds carry mostly "supporting" sound effects I'm thinking the real world difference is probably very small. The system will be used 95% HT, though.

Am I crazy for not instantly taking his offer, or would I have 90% of the audio quality with a pair of 590s for a few hundred less?

If you're all Sigs already, I'd take this deal quickly.

The ADP3's are really nice, and I'm surprised how much sound I'm getting/hearing from the sides/rears than my setup before (cheaper bi/dipoles on all four). I have S2's for the rear, and ADP3's for the sides.

With good speakers, it's amazing how much sound (in a HT setup) is really coming from all these channels, especially if you do much matrixing with your pre-pro/AVR.

I originally ordered ADP1's, and my dealer begged me to get the 3's, even giving them to me for basically the same price, because he knew I'd be happier.

Both the ADP1's and 3's are great speakers, but the 3's are a better. How much better and are they worth the extra price is up to you. But at 50% off, it seems like a no-brainer!

Well, just pulled the trigger and ordered a bunch of stuff to do acoustic panels for my room. Decided to DIY for the following reasons:

1) Use better material - OC705 instead of mineral wool
2) A lot of custom panels - I think I'll have 12-15 panels, and only 3-6 of them will be 2'x4'
3) I'm handy enough to do this easily
4) With all the custom work, even with the better material, it's 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of having someone else do them
5) I can do some custom shapes as well, like slight trapazoids

So I've got 24 OC705 2'x4' sheets coming, plus 20 yards of black fabric (I wanted black, it's a dedicated HT so the more black the better), and some accessories.

Only thing to nail down now is the framing. I think I'll use 1/8" ply/luan and just do outside frames (to keep the edges square and solid). I think I'll bevel the front edge 45-degrees for a subtle finished look. That should keep them light enough to hang with the fiberglass hangers, but worst case I'll put a brace along the back and hang from that. I'll attach the fabric mostly with the 3M spray glue, since that seems to be a favorite of most people, and with the 1/8" frame I should be able to pull it pretty tight. Worst case I'll put a small frame around the back, adding about 1/4" of depth, and staple to that.

Anyway, as I get moving, I'll post pictures if anyone cares.

If you're all Sigs already, I'd take this deal quickly.



Taken! He will be by tomorrow! They are new in box as well, so I feel that $1600 for the pair of ADP-3s in Cherry is a great deal. :)

Taken! He will be by tomorrow! They are new in box as well, so I feel that $1600 for the pair of ADP-3s in Cherry is a great deal. :)

Good for you buddy... thats a great deal, and you should be very happy...

It will be worth it in the long run... and a beautiful finish...

Well, just pulled the trigger and ordered a bunch of stuff to do acoustic panels for my room. Decided to DIY for the following reasons:

1) Use better material - OC705 instead of mineral wool
2) A lot of custom panels - I think I'll have 12-15 panels, and only 3-6 of them will be 2'x4'
3) I'm handy enough to do this easily
4) With all the custom work, even with the better material, it's 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of having someone else do them
5) I can do some custom shapes as well, like slight trapazoids

So I've got 24 OC705 2'x4' sheets coming, plus 20 yards of black fabric (I wanted black, it's a dedicated HT so the more black the better), and some accessories.

Only thing to nail down now is the framing. I think I'll use 1/8" ply/luan and just do outside frames (to keep the edges square and solid). I think I'll bevel the front edge 45-degrees for a subtle finished look. That should keep them light enough to hang with the fiberglass hangers, but worst case I'll put a brace along the back and hang from that. I'll attach the fabric mostly with the 3M spray glue, since that seems to be a favorite of most people, and with the 1/8" frame I should be able to pull it pretty tight. Worst case I'll put a small frame around the back, adding about 1/4" of depth, and staple to that.

Anyway, as I get moving, I'll post pictures if anyone cares.

You have everything totally under control, and will do a fantastic job, can't wait to see what you come up with... remember you can use any fabric from the local store, that passes the BLOW test... hhehehe and staple it on, your good to go...
I'll take some detailed pics of my ATSacoustics panels so you can see what I bought...

Also, please get some of these for mounting... they work so incredibly, you have no idea... hanging panels couldn't be easier....
http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--acoustic-panel-installation-hardware--IK12.html

Warp Out.. !!! :D

You have everything totally under control, and will do a fantastic job, can't wait to see what you come up with... remember you can use any fabric from the local store, that passes the BLOW test... hhehehe and staple it on, your good to go...
I'll take some detailed pics of my ATSacoustics panels so you can see what I bought...

Also, please get some of these for mounting... they work so incredibly, you have no idea... hanging panels couldn't be easier....
http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--acoustic-panel-installation-hardware--IK12.html

Warp Out.. !!! :D

Yeah, I bought it all from them. Right now, I'm hoping I can mount with these:
http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--Rotofast-Insulation-Board-Anchors--rotofast.html

Since I'm trying to minimize the extra wood involved, I'm hoping they're light enough. Otherwise, I'll use what you linked to, but I'll also have to put at least some sort of backing on, which I'd like to avoid if possible (weight, sound traveling through, etc.).

Oh - and if you want a really good test to show how badly everyone needs acoustic treatments, try the BD version of Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Put it on any of those last scenes with the da-da-da-dum-dum going back and forth, especially the one with the giant ship. I kept thinking another driver or tweater was starting to go, so I replayed the scene, getting my ear close to every driver in every speaker - nothing, they're all fine. But in the room, the sonics bounce around so much, that my ears hear some sort of sonic clashing or something. Subtle, but it's there once in a while.

EDIT: While this is still a great set of scenes to test with (the tones can get shrill without good acoustics), the noise I was hearing was an artifact introduced by PowerDVD (perhaps the 16-bit downsampling) and/or my G35 MB (I'm playing the BD ISO). When I played it directly from the SOny PS3, I didn't hear it at all (and my bass was significantly more pronouced, not sure why).

Otherwise, I'm loving my speakers as they're opening up!

Yeah, I bought it all from them. Right now, I'm hoping I can mount with these:
http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--Rotofast-Insulation-Board-Anchors--rotofast.html



I used the rotofast for my OC703 panels and they worked great, both the cloud and wall models.

Oksy, further narrowed this down.

First, PDVD downrezzes, or does something to the sound to make it slightly messy (for lac of a better word), when compred to the same BD in a PS3.

Second, my room without treatments further muddies certain frequencies. In this case, there is a triangle type sound that is rapidly being clanged. Up near the speaker, it's fine. But back in the room, it starts to sound like static almost. Since it's behind most of the main sounds, it's hard to isolate, but I finally did.

Acoustic treatments should help a lot with this. So I'll know in a week or so!

I am now in physical possession of the Cherry ADP-3 speakers..yippee! They look beautiful! Now, I was expecting built-in wall mount bracket like my Energy surrounds. I searched Paradigm's site and Google, and it didn't turn up any Paradigm wall mount brackets.

How should I securely mount these puppies to the wall? I don't want to just sit them on a little shelf because they could get knocked over. I also need them to hug the wall pretty tight due to the door being near one of them.

Ideas?

I am now in physical possession of the Cherry ADP-3 speakers..yippee! They look beautiful! Now, I was expecting built-in wall mount bracket like my Energy surrounds. I searched Paradigm's site and Google, and it didn't turn up any Paradigm wall mount brackets.

How should I securely mount these puppies to the wall? I don't want to just sit them on a little shelf because they could get knocked over. I also need them to hug the wall pretty tight due to the door being near one of them.

Ideas?

Mine came with wall mounts. They seem really flimsy, but they work just fine. It's basically two metal brackets that slide onto each other.

The screw holes on the back of the ADP-3 are for this (plus a little safety wire).

I'd suggest you call Paradigm or your dealer and ask for the ADP-3 wall mounts brackets and safety wire.

Mine came with wall mounts. They seem really flimsy, but they work just fine. It's basically two metal brackets that slide onto each other.

The screw holes on the back of the ADP-3 are for this (plus a little safety wire).

I'd suggest you call Paradigm or your dealer and ask for the ADP-3 wall mounts brackets and safety wire.

Ah, I just found an insert in the physical manual that says they no longer come with mounting hardware. Oddly, it does show a picture and give you a template and boy those mounts sure do look cheap. You would think for their top-of-the-line speakers they would have a more sturdy mount.

I'll give my local dealer a call and see what they can do for me. Thanks!

I have a question for all you helpful Paradigm enthusiasts. I posted this as its own thread but it didn't get much attention.

I was all set to buy the following Paradigm system, all new V5’s: Mini Monitor fronts, CC-190 center, ADP-190 surrounds, and a PDR10 sub. Then the store tells me someone traded in some 1 year old Monitor 7’s V4 in great condition, which they really are, I listened to them already. They will sell them to me for significantly less than the new Minis. Is this a no brainer that I should get the 7's like the salesman is saying? Should I have any qualms about having v4 fronts and v5 center and surrounds? I know that the v5 are more efficient and therefore louder, but couldn't I just adjust the level of the fronts to account for that?

What would you do? And what would audiophile Jesus do (WWAJD) for that matter? :)

Thanks for your opinions and insights.

Chris

I just got a new TV and after listening to how ridiculous the TV's speaker sounded I knew an upgrade was in order.

So I picked up two studio 20 fronts and am contemplating a center. Does anyone run a studio 20 as a center? I know the 590 is the recommended match but I'm just looking for a basic soundstage. I suppose a demo is the best way to tell.

thanks

edit: Looks like this was already discussed today
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1017160

I just got a new TV and after listening to how ridiculous the TV's speaker sounded I knew an upgrade was in order.

So I picked up two studio 20 fronts and am contemplating a center. Does anyone run a studio 20 as a center? I know the 590 is the recommended match but I'm just looking for a basic soundstage. I suppose a demo is the best way to tell.

thanks
If they will sell you a single 20 it would work great if not better than a 590
for a perfect blend.

I have a question for all you helpful Paradigm enthusiasts. I posted this as its own thread but it didn't get much attention.



Why not just set that grouping up in the store and see if you hear any noticeable differences?

I have a question for all you helpful Paradigm enthusiasts. I posted this as its own thread but it didn't get much attention.

I was all set to buy the following Paradigm system, all new V5’s: Mini Monitor fronts, CC-190 center, ADP-190 surrounds, and a PDR10 sub. Then the store tells me someone traded in some 1 year old Monitor 7’s V4 in great condition, which they really are, I listened to them already. They will sell them to me for significantly less than the new Minis. Is this a no brainer that I should get the 7's like the salesman is saying? Should I have any qualms about having v4 fronts and v5 center and surrounds? I know that the v5 are more efficient and therefore louder, but couldn't I just adjust the level of the fronts to account for that?

What would you do? And what would audiophile Jesus do (WWAJD) for that matter? :)

Thanks for your opinions and insights.

Chris
Imo keeping the same model and series integrates better in the system.

Imo keeping the same model and series integrates better in the system.

But it really depends on how many changes were made from the .v4 to .v5, and if I remember it was quite significant. Not sure how the .v4 and .v5 would blend as a front stage panning from left to right... I think you need to audition that same setup. .v4L .v5C .v4R.. see how it goes, If it sounds good to you then go for it... They should be somewhat closely voiced and I would like to think it would sound pretty good.

But it really depends on how many changes were made from the .v4 to .v5, and if I remember it was quite significant. Not sure how the .v4 and .v5 would blend as a front stage panning from left to right... I think you need to audition that same setup. .v4L .v5C .v4R.. see how it goes, If it sounds good to you then go for it... They should be somewhat closely voiced and I would like to think it would sound pretty good.

Warpdrv is right, they are very closely voiced. I used to have a setup with Monitor 11.v4 Front L/R with CC390.v5 center and ADP370.v4 surrounds, and it sounded fine. I think the most significant change in the .V4 to .V5 Monitor series were with the improvements in center channels.

In fact my current setup is similar to my prior setup only with the studio series: 100's.v3 L/R CC690.v4 in the center, and I still have the Monitor ADP370's.v4 for surround and rears. Loving it!

You might want to consider taking the 7's and since you said your dealer would give them to for less than the Mini's use the extra cash to upgrade to the CC290.v5 center.

sorry if this has been asked before; my house is typical of new construction where my family room (17'L X 17'W X 18'H) directly connects to my kitchen (17'L X 17'W X 9'H). the ht setup will be in the family room. since i do not have a rear wall, what is the best type of rear speaker to consider, adp1 surrounds or s2's on the side walls? thanks

I'd like to add to Michael's question here since I have a similar setup. The house I just bought has the family room as 15'(w)x17'(l)'x10'(h) and the kitchen is connected as well being 15'(w)x12'(l)x10'(h). I have been going back and forth for a long time now between a full signature setup (s8/s6+C5+ADP1/ADP3/S2) or a full studio setup (studio100+CC690+ADP590). I have not heard the S8 v2 but have heard the S8 v1, S6 v2, and the Studio 100 v4. The S6 v2 I immediately fell in love with but is real hard to justify the price jump (not to mention convincing the wife). Wanted to hear from the experts here what they think the best setup is for this environment with the choices I outlined. Thanks so much for your help.

Well, just pulled the trigger and ordered a bunch of stuff to do acoustic panels for my room.

AbMagFab, where did you go to do your acoustical research, do you have any good links ?? I would look to do more research on this subject...

I'd like to add to Michael's question here since I have a similar setup. The house I just bought has the family room as 15'(w)x17'(l)'x10'(h) and the kitchen is connected as well being 15'(w)x12'(l)x10'(h). I have been going back and forth for a long time now between a full signature setup (s8/s6+C5+ADP1/ADP3/S2) or a full studio setup (studio100+CC690+ADP590). I have not heard the S8 v2 but have heard the S8 v1, S6 v2, and the Studio 100 v4. The S6 v2 I immediately fell in love with but is real hard to justify the price jump (not to mention convincing the wife). Wanted to hear from the experts here what they think the best setup is for this environment with the choices I outlined. Thanks so much for your help.

Depending on your timeline, patience, and willing to buy non-new equipment, audiogon is a great source. There were a pair of S6s on there just last week that sold. I also posted a 'wanted' on audiogon and a local guy messaged me with an outstanding deal on ADP-3s. So far I'm batting 50% off MSRP over the last month with my Sig setup, and the equipment was either factory sealed or barely used.

On the other hand, if you want the full warranty, dealer support, etc. then buy locally at 15-20% off MSRP + tax. You could also query your local dealers for floor models as well.

sorry if this has been asked before; my house is typical of new construction where my family room (17'L X 17'W X 18'H) directly connects to my kitchen (17'L X 17'W X 9'H). the ht setup will be in the family room. since i do not have a rear wall, what is the best type of rear speaker to consider, adp1 surrounds or s2's on the side walls? thanks

If you don't have a rear wall then I would recommend the S2's, S1's or even some in-ceiling speakers for the surrounds. The ADP's, as you hinted at, need a rear wall for the back side of the speaker to reflect sound off of to provide the proper effect.

The only problem with using something like the S2 is that they are designed to be placed clear of nearby walls. You may be able to get away with it, but they there is a good chance that they will sound too bass heavy. This is less of an issue if you are hooking the speakers up to a modern AVR that has a Room EQ feature, as the EQ will counteract the boosted bass.

thanks hifi, i appreciate your thoughts. i would think my setup would be a very common challenge for a lot of people. i'll check out the s1's along with the s2's as you suggested. my intent is to pick up an integra 9.8 that will hopefully assist with eq.

I just bought a pair of Atoms for my fronts and they are amazing for $290.

I just bought a pair of Atoms for my fronts and they are amazing for $290.

One of the best buys around for sound vs money spent.

AbMagFab, where did you go to do your acoustical research, do you have any good links ?? I would look to do more research on this subject...

It's almost impossible. No one seems to want to talk about it.

The AVS forums are the worst for this. There appear to only be people who want to:
1) Tell you how complicated it is and you need to hire someone
2) Tell you to read the sticky, and that everything is in there (it's years old and thousands of posts)
3) Tell you to go to some websites and hire them

If you do some googling on acoustic panels, you'll get some information.

www.adioholics.com (the forums) has a lot more on this, and was a good baseline.

Ultimately, this is what I learned:

a) You need to find your first reflection points on the side walls. Use a mirror, and sit in each of your HT seats. Put the mirror on the wall, and when you see the top of each front speaker, mark it on the wall. Do the same for each of the three front speakers, for each seat (so if you have three seats, you'll have nine marks both side walls). Use 2" panels. You want to cover as much of the speaker as possible, so you might want to mark the top and bottom (left and right side for the center speaker) of each speaker on each wall.

b) You want to deaden the screen wall as much as possible. Use 2" or 4" panels.

c) You want bass traps as much as possible. This means putting 4" panels at a 45-degree angle in as many of the corners as you can. Not just the four main corners, but also where the walls meet the ceiling. This is apparently the most important, but also the hardest, and the ugliest. So do what you can (in my case it will just be the rear two corners, but I'll be using 4" panels a couple other places to help some).

d) You want to deaden the back wall if it's close to the seating. Use 4" panels here if possible.

e) You want to put panels on the ceiling as well, like with (a) above (use the mirror method to find the first reflection points there). Use 2" panels.

That's it. You can buy the stuff a few places (I liked ATSAcoustics.com).

Let me know if this helps?
-Mark

Should I have any qualms about having v4 fronts and v5 center and surrounds? I know that the v5 are more efficient and therefore louder, but couldn't I just adjust the level of the fronts to account for that?

Chris

I would not mix the v4 fronts with v5. The lines are totally different. The V3 and V4 are practically identical, but not the v5 line.

I personally dont like what paradigm did with the new v5 line in terms of looks and build quality, and was even more upset with elimination of there performance line.

Paradigm is moving away from its roots and raising its prices. They still make great stuff though.

One of the best buys around for sound vs money spent.

I agree. Playback magazine (used to be The Perfect Vision) gave the Atom Monitor system a very good review in their sub $1,500 surround speaker review in the April '08 issue. They said it was the v4 Atoms, but had pics of the v5's.

I agree. Playback magazine (used to be The Perfect Vision) gave the Atom Monitor system a very good review in their sub $1,500 surround speaker review in the April '08 issue. They said it was the v4 Atoms, but had pics of the v5's.



That's what I have...the V.5. A buddy of mine has the older V.2 which he bought some years ago for the INSANE price of $190/pair!!! He loves them, but mentioned that he knows the new V.5 versions are updated and built a bit better. I'm breaking them in right now, but they sound great right outta the box.

Next, I will be buying a Hsu STF-2 and I will have a very nice-sounding, inexpensive system. There are definitely some great products out there for a fair price these days.

:)

It's almost impossible. No one seems to want to talk about it.

The AVS forums are the worst for this. There appear to only be people who want to:

. . .

2) Tell you to read the sticky, and that everything is in there (it's years old and thousands of posts)

. . .



Actually, there's a very good list of links in the "Sound Treatments and Acoustics" section of the first post in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=824554

That's what I have...the V.5. A buddy of mine has the older V.2 which he bought some years ago for the INSANE price of $190/pair!!! He loves them, but mentioned that he knows the new V.5 versions are updated and built a bit better. I'm breaking them in right now, but they sound great right outta the box.

:)

You cant compare the old Atom to the new Atom. When paradigm combined the performance and monitor lines, they changed the speakers dramatically. In terms of build quality, the V5 are in between the performance and monitor line. For example a mini monitor v3/4 is better build quality vs the mini monitor v5. If you look at the specs you can even see that the V4 performed better than the v5. Personally the only thing i see better in the v5 line is the center speakers.

Then the store tells me someone traded in some 1 year old Monitor 7’s V4 in great condition, which they really are, I listened to them already. They will sell them to me for significantly less than the new Minis. Is this a no brainer that I should get the 7's like the salesman is saying?

As others have said here. I think you should take the V.4 7's. They are yards better than the V.5 7's. Then look for a V.4 center used. (even though i never think one should buy used). Or do the 290 V.5. But take the older 7's!

I understand your viewpoint.
Rather than telling people what to do many here want to educate people/help the people educate themself so that they can make an intelligent, informed choice themself.

Me, I'm 250 pages into the holy grail of acoustics, "Master Handbook of Acoustics" by F. Alton Everest, I highly recommend anyone interested to buy and read this book. Best $27 you will spend and you will understand/grasp so much more, and feel more comfortable/confident with your decisions.
http://www.amazon.com/Master-Handbook-Acoustics-Alton-Everest/dp/0071360972
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CZ0B4XG3L._SL500_BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg

It's almost impossible. No one seems to want to talk about it.

The AVS forums are the worst for this. There appear to only be people who want to:
1) Tell you how complicated it is and you need to hire someone
2) Tell you to read the sticky, and that everything is in there (it's years old and thousands of posts)
3) Tell you to go to some websites and hire them

If you do some googling on acoustic panels, you'll get some information.

www.adioholics.com (the forums) has a lot more on this, and was a good baseline.

Ultimately, this is what I learned:

a) You need to find your first reflection points on the side walls. Use a mirror, and sit in each of your HT seats. Put the mirror on the wall, and when you see the top of each front speaker, mark it on the wall. Do the same for each of the three front speakers, for each seat (so if you have three seats, you'll have nine marks both side walls). Use 2" panels. You want to cover as much of the speaker as possible, so you might want to mark the top and bottom (left and right side for the center speaker) of each speaker on each wall.

b) You want to deaden the screen wall as much as possible. Use 2" or 4" panels.

c) You want bass traps as much as possible. This means putting 4" panels at a 45-degree angle in as many of the corners as you can. Not just the four main corners, but also where the walls meet the ceiling. This is apparently the most important, but also the hardest, and the ugliest. So do what you can (in my case it will just be the rear two corners, but I'll be using 4" panels a couple other places to help some).

d) You want to deaden the back wall if it's close to the seating. Use 4" panels here if possible.

e) You want to put panels on the ceiling as well, like with (a) above (use the mirror method to find the first reflection points there). Use 2" panels.

That's it. You can buy the stuff a few places (I liked ATSAcoustics.com).

Let me know if this helps?
-Mark

It's almost impossible. No one seems to want to talk about it.

The AVS forums are the worst for this. There appear to only be people who want to:
1) Tell you how complicated it is and you need to hire someone
2) Tell you to read the sticky, and that everything is in there (it's years old and thousands of posts)
3) Tell you to go to some websites and hire them

Actually, there's a very good list of links in the "Sound Treatments and Acoustics" section of the first post in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=824554

I understand your viewpoint.
Rather than telling people what to do many here want to educate people/help the people educate themself so that they can make an intelligent, informed choice themself.

Me, I'm 250 pages into the holy grail of acoustics, "Master Handbook of Acoustics" by F. Alton Everest, I highly recommend anyone interested to buy and read this book. Best $27 you will spend and you will understand/grasp so much more, and feel more comfortable/confident with your decisions.
http://www.amazon.com/Master-Handbook-Acoustics-Alton-Everest/dp/0071360972
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CZ0B4XG3L._SL500_BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg

Thanks for proving my point. The two response to my post were:

1) Read the sticky
2) It's so complicated, here's a big long book to read, rather than some actual, useful advice.

Anyway, take from this what you will, and definitely check out the forums on audioholics.com for some info. I have no idea why this board, which is extremely helpful on every other topic, is so incredibly unhelpful when it comes to acoustic treatments.

Also please feel free to PM me.

guys, does anyone know of any online dealers for paradigm speakers? there is no authorized dealer where i am at so.....pls help.

pm if necessary

thanks!

Thanks for proving my point. The two response to my post were:

1) Read the sticky
2) It's so complicated, here's a big long book to read, rather than some actual, useful advice.

Anyway, take from this what you will, and definitely check out the forums on audioholics.com for some info. I have no idea why this board, which is extremely helpful on every other topic, is so incredibly unhelpful when it comes to acoustic treatments.

Also please feel free to PM me.

Did you even look at the link I provided? You don't have to read the entire thread. It's a section of links in the first post.

It seems like you're expecting someone to outline a solution for you. You're being incredibly unhelpful to yourself.

Did you even look at the link I provided? You don't have to read the entire thread. It's a section of links in the first post.

It seems like you're expecting someone to outline a solution for you. You're being incredibly unhelpful to yourself.

That post has about 100 links. For someone trying to figure out what to do, trust me, that's not very helpful, and it takes many many hours to even begin to figure out what to do.

I outlined a solution above. It's not that big a deal. People do it here all the time for just about everything else. It helps distill down a ton of information.

No one here ever said "basically you need to deaded your first reflection points". That would have been really helpful all by itself. Then "you can find first reflection points a lot of ways, but an easy way is the mirror method". Hey, that's useful, too! Sadly, never offered here (only on the other board).

I find it really really strange, since on every other topic I've ever posted here, from AV hardware, to screens, to software, these boards are incredibly helpful and people go out of their way to provide information and advice. But for some reason I can't explain and don't understand, the acoustic treatment topic is like some elite-land that mere mortals aren't allowed into, or something.

Anyway, audioholics also does a great job of providing real, direct information about acoustic treatments, and happily answer any type of question (not just providing links to 100's of links). And the couple of links they have in the sticky go to about 10 pages of information that is a great primer, and takes about 15 minutes to completely read through.

I'm surprised you see this as the same thing, or particularly helpful? As an additional item, sure. But as the only response, it's not helpful at all.

I'm surprised you see this as the same thing, or particularly helpful? As an additional item, sure. But as the only response, it's not helpful at all.

There are about 35 links in the section I referenced on acoustics. And the first 10 or so are to Audioholics. So it seems like a great place to start.

If someone looked through at least some of those links, I'd expect that they'd come back with specific questions that many people here would be happy to discuss.

I just don't see the issue that you do.

There are about 35 links in the section I referenced on acoustics. And the first 10 or so are to Audioholics. So it seems like a great place to start.

If someone looked through at least some of those links, I'd expect that they'd come back with specific questions that many people here would be happy to discuss.

I just don't see the issue that you do.

I'll let it drop after this, as this isn't really the thread for it... but let me give an example to try and illustrate:

New thread/question: "Hey, why would I want the Onkyo 905 over the 875?"
Typical Answer on AVS: "Well, the 905 has two HDMI outputs, if that matters to you, and the 905 has some more on-screen menus. Also it's got a big transformer that might make the sound be a little better."
Answer if it was like acoustics: "Read the 905 thread, your answer is in there, and here's a link to the 875 and 905 manual."

New thread/question: "Hey, I'm going to upgrade my HT and want to buy a projection screen, but I don't get why I'd want gray or white - what's the difference?"
Typical answer on AVS: "Well, gray screens tend to do better in ambient light conditions, and they also tend to increase contrast. For today's high-contrast projectors, the additional contrast is nice, but not critical. If you plan to watch with any light on, you should probably consider the gray screen. Here's a link to Stewart, and they have additional info there, as well as you can order some samples of both if you want."
Answer if it was like acoustics: "Here's a link to screen theories. And here are links to 5 manufacturers who make screens."

Does that make a little more sense? AVS has been way more than just a "go educate yourself" forum, except for some reason when it comes to acoustics. And this becomes extremely apparent when you look at adioholics for the exact same questions/content. Example:

New thread/question: "Hey, here's a picture room and floor plan, where should I start with acoustic treatments?"
Typical answer on AVS: "Read the sticky; hire an expert; it's too complicated to even think about.
Typical answer on audioholics: "... first reflection points... mirror method... 2" and 4" panels... bass traps... links to vendors for DIY... links to vendors for pre-made panels... etc."

Hope this helps explain the black-and-white difference (to me) that I'm trying to point out (and still don't understand why).

Anyway, again, this isn't the thread for this so I'll stop posting on it, as I think I answered the previous posters question and he can PM me with additional questions.

I'll let it drop after this, as this isn't really the thread for it... but let me give an example to try and illustrate:

New thread/question: "Hey, why would I want the Onkyo 905 over the 875?"
Typical Answer on AVS: "Well, the 905 has two HDMI outputs, if that matters to you, and the 905 has some more on-screen menus. Also it's got a big transformer that might make the sound be a little better."
Answer if it was like acoustics: "Read the 905 thread, your answer is in there, and here's a link to the 875 and 905 manual."

New thread/question: "Hey, I'm going to upgrade my HT and want to buy a projection screen, but I don't get why I'd want gray or white - what's the difference?"
Typical answer on AVS: "Well, gray screens tend to do better in ambient light conditions, and they also tend to increase contrast. For today's high-contrast projectors, the additional contrast is nice, but not critical. If you plan to watch with any light on, you should probably consider the gray screen. Here's a link to Stewart, and they have additional info there, as well as you can order some samples of both if you want."
Answer if it was like acoustics: "Here's a link to screen theories. And here are links to 5 manufacturers who make screens."

Does that make a little more sense? AVS has been way more than just a "go educate yourself" forum, except for some reason when it comes to acoustics. And this becomes extremely apparent when you look at adioholics for the exact same questions/content. Example:

New thread/question: "Hey, here's a picture room and floor plan, where should I start with acoustic treatments?"
Typical answer on AVS: "Read the sticky; hire an expert; it's too complicated to even think about.
Typical answer on audioholics: "... first reflection points... mirror method... 2" and 4" panels... bass traps... links to vendors for DIY... links to vendors for pre-made panels... etc."

Hope this helps explain the black-and-white difference (to me) that I'm trying to point out (and still don't understand why).

Anyway, again, this isn't the thread for this so I'll stop posting on it, as I think I answered the previous posters question and he can PM me with additional questions.

AbMagFab;
I don't mean to drag this on, I see your comment "this isn't the thread for this so I'll stop posting on it", this is my last post inside this Paradigm speaker owners thread also (BTW, I have Monitor 9v5, CC390, ADP 390 and love them)

Like you, I've come to the conclusion for some reason some people here (AVS) put acoustics into the "holy grail" thing at times.

BTW, first reflection points there is a neat program written that visually shows them for your HT layout, it is in this thread very 1st post by the author:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10076787&posted=1
Here is output for my room, cool to see visually, better/easier than the mirrors thing:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/mtbdudex/R_9t-FrYWhI/AAAAAAAABug/geTa_52RzhQ/s800/Reflections%20Frt%20view.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/mtbdudex/R_9t-VrYWiI/AAAAAAAABuo/9zcsVVf1o1k/s800/Reflections%20side%20view.jpg

Based on what I read/researched/etc, here is what I’m thinking for my HT, this was done w/o any acoustic analysis, just reading many-many posts, looking at many-many build threads and final rooms that are similiar to mine:

-Front wall; full acoustic absorbing treatment all wall area, except screen of course
-side walls; acoustic treatment absorbing in colored areas as shown, possibly I could go along both whole RH and LH side wall about 42” height constant, and above that will be just painted drywall
Or
Make 3-4 acoustic absorbing panels/side and hang those on the walls.
>>Tradeoff is the full treatment will look more integrated, yet take more time and $$$, the panels can be used where really “needed” and moved to tweak the acoustics.
-Back wall; will NOT be acoustic absorbing, rather acoustic reflecting treatment in colored select areas
-Ceiling; for now I’ll just leave as painted drywall and then take some acoustic measurements, if some “problem” exists then I’ll make partial acoustic absorbtive panel for ceiling in just colored areas shown.
-Bass Trap(s); tbd at this time


The book I posted is really an easy read - not technical, I'm at page 320, I still recommend it for people who want to know the "why something is done or recommended".
I've decided to NOT do any of my acoustics until I finish reading that book and have a better grasp.

I think the "cookbook approach" (just do this and do that) to acoustics may give most people 80% of the benefit, it's that final 20% that really takes a understanding of your particular room layout/construction, speaker layout/type, etc.

Prior to many sub $1k AV's having AudessyEQ (1-2 years ago) probably the cook book approach was not the desired advice, because the average joe may over treat their room and have a too dead room. Now, with AudessyEQ in so many AV's I'd gather that some cook book + AudessyEQ method may be the easiest and quickest way. Is that stepping on some acoustic consulting opportunities, possibly.

Ok and agreed, enough of acoustics in the Paradigm speaker thread.

Very Nice.... mtbdudex
Thanks for taking the time to post that here... and a very useful tool you linked to as well... Many people could benefit from the info you posted, clear and to the point...

I certainly agree with you, I don't like an overly dead room, it doesn't make for a better experience, it certainly can hinder performance, and take away from the overall experience.

Much to my dismay, I'm finding myself becoming an audio snob!

The first part in this was getting the new speakers. As they're opening up (and it's true, it does take time for them to open up - every day they sound a little bit better in some way), I'm finding myself hearing things in music and movies that I never heard before. It's amazing. Even with regular TV, it's so much more immersive now.

The second part is happening as I go back to my BluRay collection, and listen to movies on the new speakers using the uncompressed tracks (LPCM, TrueHD, DTS-HD/MA). My reaction is contantly "wow, that sounds amazing!".

So then I toggle to the DD/DTS track, and it's noticable different. Almost muted, narrower, not as colorful. It's the sound equivalent to the video difference of a SD DVD compared to a BluRay - it's obviously the same thing, but something is missing.

Unfortunately, it's having the same effect as HD had on me. That is, when I got my upgraded HD set up, it takes a lot for me to watch any SD (it has to be something really good that isn't available any other way). Now with audio, I find myself being disappointed in the 384K DD soundtracks on HD movies from HBO, SHO, etc., and only want to listen to BD's with an HD soundtrack.

I can only imagine what's going to happen when I get my acoustic panels up. Am I only going to be watch 1080p HD with HD audio soundtracks in an acoustically treated room???

What to do! I need some sort of intervention!

I'll be right over to relieve you of some of your equipment that has tarnished your brain, so you can go back to your miserable life with a 27" tube watching SD channels that is accompanied by those incredible built in expansive sound speakers !!!

You Freakin Junkie !!!

"Nock Nock"

Much to my dismay, I'm finding myself becoming an audio snob!

The first part in this was getting the new speakers. As they're opening up (and it's true, it does take time for them to open up - every day they sound a little bit better in some way), I'm finding myself hearing things in music and movies that I never heard before. It's amazing. Even with regular TV, it's so much more immersive now.

The second part is happening as I go back to my BluRay collection, and listen to movies on the new speakers using the uncompressed tracks (LPCM, TrueHD, DTS-HD/MA). My reaction is contantly "wow, that sounds amazing!".

So then I toggle to the DD/DTS track, and it's noticable different. Almost muted, narrower, not as colorful. It's the sound equivalent to the video difference of a SD DVD compared to a BluRay - it's obviously the same thing, but something is missing.

Unfortunately, it's having the same effect as HD had on me. That is, when I got my upgraded HD set up, it takes a lot for me to watch any SD (it has to be something really good that isn't available any other way). Now with audio, I find myself being disappointed in the 384K DD soundtracks on HD movies from HBO, SHO, etc., and only want to listen to BD's with an HD soundtrack.

I can only imagine what's going to happen when I get my acoustic panels up. Am I only going to be watch 1080p HD with HD audio soundtracks in an acoustically treated room???

What to do! I need some sort of intervention!
Welcome to the machine.

Welcome to the machine.

I really didn't want to become "one of them". I just wanted to get better sound... I'm concerned...

I really didn't want to become "one of them". I just wanted to get better sound... I'm concerned...

I can't think of another hobby counting my mac that is somewhat linked to
my ht that has brought so much happiness to me and my family so in the
end the only thing to be concerned about this hobby is the ability to have
to have the funds to make it better as needed.

Hi everyone, I tried searching the thread, but that proved to be a daunting task.

Anyway, I currently own a pair of Mini Monitor v.5's, and the more I listen to them, the more I feel they're too bright (yeah, imagine that...Paradigm speakers too bright; let alone ones with a titanium dome tweeter). If I had to put a number on it, I'd say the problem is around 3-5kHz (the speakers get harsh/washed out during busy sections, especially when there's a lot of distorted electric guitar and cymbals...I'd say "easily excitable" is a term that fits well). The amp is a 60WPC RMS "gainclone" model I built with a DIY kit, if anyone thinks it matters.

So the problem with my Mini's got me wondering: how do the Studio 20 v.4's (the newest ones) stack up against the Mini v.5's? To anyone who's heard them back-to-back (or any of the Studio/Monitor series), could you go into detail regarding what exactly was improved by stepping up to the Studio? Obviously the treble is my main concern here, I'd like something smoother.

My room is odd-shaped, and not acoustically treated, but that being said, I've done my best to properly image the speakers.

Thanks for the replies!

Much to my dismay, I'm finding myself becoming an audio snob!

The first part in this was getting the new speakers. As they're opening up (and it's true, it does take time for them to open up - every day they sound a little bit better in some way), I'm finding myself hearing things in music and movies that I never heard before. It's amazing. Even with regular TV, it's so much more immersive now.

. . .

What to do! I need some sort of intervention!

You might want to be concerned about your belief regarding speaker break in.

In his article "Audio's Top Urban Legend," Tom Nousaine had this to say:

So do speakers break in once we get them home? Hell, no. And we should be thankful for this. I'd worry about a manufacturer who'd let a product leave his factory before he'd verified its final peformance. If breaking in is truly needed, it should be done at the factory.

See http://www.bruce.coppola.name/audio/BurnInLegend.pdf

And Audioholics has an interesting article:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction

You might want to be concerned about your belief regarding speaker break in.

In his article "Audio's Top Urban Legend," Tom Nousaine had this to say:



See http://www.bruce.coppola.name/audio/BurnInLegend.pdf

And Audioholics has an interesting article:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction

I know, I read those (and things like them) before. But apparently, there's some liquid stuff in the drivers and tweeters that actually does take some time to loosen up.

I believe my ears more than an article, and the speakers are definitely are changing sound over the last couple of weeks. It's not subtle. I have a particular soundtrack I play to test it out (the "Ode to Joy" scene in "Immortal Beloved" that has a lot of complex sounds in it). It's objectively sounding better and better.

So articles are print on a page, and all theory. I believe reality!

In the paradigm owners book it states an hour but i imagine that has more to do
with it adjusting to room temperature than anything else ,all i know is mine still
sound as good as the day i bought them 3 years ago.

So articles are print on a page, and all theory. I believe reality!

Those articles don't present theory. Those articles present scientific facts.

The reality isn't speaker break in. The reality is psychoacoustics.

I would hope that others don't believe that Paradigm speakers contain liquid that requires break in.

The amp is a 60WPC RMS "gainclone" model I built with a DIY kit, if anyone thinks it matters.

Amps and pre-amps may matter, and so may room acoustics. You might want to try a couple totally different amps and some room treatment (wall carpets, moving the speakers around, etc.), before committing to the speakers being the problem.

Good luck hunting down the devil!

Best - MM

Hi everyone, I tried searching the thread, but that proved to be a daunting task.

Anyway, I currently own a pair of Mini Monitor v.5's, and the more I listen to them, the more I feel they're too bright (yeah, imagine that...Paradigm speakers too bright; let alone ones with a titanium dome tweeter). If I had to put a number on it, I'd say the problem is around 3-5kHz (the speakers get harsh/washed out during busy sections, especially when there's a lot of distorted electric guitar and cymbals...I'd say "easily excitable" is a term that fits well). The amp is a 60WPC RMS "gainclone" model I built with a DIY kit, if anyone thinks it matters.

So the problem with my Mini's got me wondering: how do the Studio 20 v.4's (the newest ones) stack up against the Mini v.5's? To anyone who's heard them back-to-back (or any of the Studio/Monitor series), could you go into detail regarding what exactly was improved by stepping up to the Studio? Obviously the treble is my main concern here, I'd like something smoother.

My room is odd-shaped, and not acoustically treated, but that being said, I've done my best to properly image the speakers.

Thanks for the replies!


Do you have a dealer near by you? He might be willing to bring a pair of studio's over to your house and let you hear them hooked up to your amp and in your listening conditions. It won't be like he's bringing giant towers over, so it might be a reasonable thing to do.

Do you have a dealer near by you? He might be willing to bring a pair of studio's over to your house and let you hear them hooked up to your amp and in your listening conditions. It won't be like he's bringing giant towers over, so it might be a reasonable thing to do.

Yeah, that's the problem, is there aren't any dealers within an hour or two of me. I'd love to go hear them myself, but that doesn't seem possible, at least not until I make a trip back to St. Louis. That's why I hoped someone on here had heard them back to back.

+1
My dealer let me bring home Studio CC-590 v.4 to audition and if it timbre match with my Studio 40 v.3.

Just buy a pair of used Studio 20's off Ebay or Audiogon and see how you like them... That way you can both save money and sample your speaker in your own home, and If you don't like them - sell it, you would likely not be out very much if any money. You know you already like the paradigm sound.

I just bought my Sig S4's and C3 without ever hearing them, and I love them, while saving a bundle off retail. It was worth it for me...

Can't go wrong with the Studio's, great sound for the money spent ,each step up in the
Paradigm line is noticeable improvement its up to your budget.

Those articles don't present theory. Those articles present scientific facts.

The reality isn't speaker break in. The reality is psychoacoustics.

I would hope that others don't believe that Paradigm speakers contain liquid that requires break in.

Look, there's a lot of mechanical elements in the speakers. To think that "out of the box" they are behaving exactly as they will after hours of play, is like thinking your car won't change when you drive it off the lot.

If they were 100% digital, I'd agree, but they aren't. There are a lot of moving parts, and it takes a little bit of time for the mechanical aspects to "settle in".

(And as partly scientific, since I was getting different sound I decided to take some SPL measurements again (on a tripod, at marked locations). No surprise, the SPL readings changed and I had to re-run Audyssey after a couple weeks. Mostly mid- and high- frequencies. Nothing else in the room has changed.)

(And as partly scientific, since I was getting different sound I decided to take some SPL measurements again (on a tripod, at marked locations). No surprise, the SPL readings changed and I had to re-run Audyssey after a couple weeks. Mostly mid- and high- frequencies. Nothing else in the room has changed.)

The articles I pointed you to noted that measurements change but not enough for detectable auditory differences.

If weeks later you're getting a different sound from Paradigm speakers, then you're finding something very unusual--perhaps defective speakers.

The new Studio Esprit models have a L, R and C to wrap around a Plasma, also avail in the Sig lineup, but yet to be published on the site.

Do you, or does anyone, have any more info on the Signature version of the Esprit? Ideally, I'd like to see somewhat higher SPL capablity, in the form of greater power-handling, and/or slightly larger-diameter drivers, and/or a somewhat larger-volume cabinet.

Thanks.

Do you, or does anyone, have any more info on the Signature version of the Esprit? Ideally, I'd like to see somewhat higher SPL capablity, in the form of greater power-handling, and/or slightly larger-diameter drivers, and/or a somewhat larger-volume cabinet.

Thanks.

New Model! W5 – Six driver 3.5-way on-wall: 2 x 7-inch bass, 2 x 7-inch mid/bass, 4.5-inch mid, 1-inch P-Be; $2800/ea
New Model! W5 C – Six-driver 3.5-way on-wall center: 2 x 7-inch bass, 2 x 7-inch mid/bass, 4.5-inch mid, 1-inch P-Be; $2800/ea
These are older prices as well & they don't even list them on the site either... also I never even noticed that they were 3 1/2 way !?!?

Paradigm is so incredibly slow to release information on their items, I wish I knew why that was... I would put a call in to them at headquarters, to see what they have to say....
IMO, If they haven't even released pics yet, I would suggest they won't give up much more info.

Question to my Paradigm Pals:

I don't really have sidewall space to place a pair of ADP1's but I have room behind the listening position for speakers.

Since I can't use side surrounds, should I use ADP1's as rears or S2's? Thanks!!

Question to my Paradigm Pals:

I don't really have sidewall space to place a pair of ADP1's but I have room behind the listening position for speakers.

Since I can't use side surrounds, should I use ADP1's as rears or S2's? Thanks!!

Definitely go for the S2's. Rear wall placement of dipoles speakers does not give you very good back to front fill. You will have gap between the front and rear stage and the effect is not very cohesive. Instead of room filling sound you get a distracting seperation between front and back.

I have a question for all you helpful Paradigm enthusiasts. I posted this as its own thread but it didn't get much attention.

I was all set to buy the following Paradigm system, all new V5’s: Mini Monitor fronts, CC-190 center, ADP-190 surrounds, and a PDR10 sub. Then the store tells me someone traded in some 1 year old Monitor 7’s V4 in great condition, which they really are, I listened to them already. They will sell them to me for significantly less than the new Minis. Is this a no brainer that I should get the 7's like the salesman is saying? Should I have any qualms about having v4 fronts and v5 center and surrounds? I know that the v5 are more efficient and therefore louder, but couldn't I just adjust the level of the fronts to account for that?

What would you do? And what would audiophile Jesus do (WWAJD) for that matter? :)

Thanks for your opinions and insights.

Chris

I'm using Monitor 5 v.3 fronts with a CC-190 v.5 center and think they sound fine together, much better than with the CC-170 v.3 I had before. Paradigm customer service told me they're timbre matched. I don't have golden ears, but I think they sound just fine. As for the v.5 being more efficient, they really are. With DVE and a radio shack meter, I ended up with +1/+2 for my fronts and -3 for the center.

If getting the v.4 7's saves you money, I'd go for it.

+1
My dealer let me bring home Studio CC-590 v.4 to audition and if it timbre match with my Studio 40 v.3.


How did the two version sound together?:rolleyes:

[FONT=arial,helvetica][SIZE=2]New Model! W5 – Six driver 3.5-way on-wall: 2 x 7-inch bass, 2 x 7-inch mid/bass, 4.5-inch mid, 1-inch P-Be; $2800/ea.

Thanks for the info. Sounds like an interesting product, except for the MSRP being kind of steep compared to the $1099 Esprit. I would have hoped more like $2000.

My experience with intermixing different versions. I ran a CC290 v.5 with Micro v.3's until I purchased a pair of Mini-Monitor v.5's. The Micro's sounded fine, until I put the Mini-Monitors in. Now I can't go back. I have a set of Boston Acoustics T930 towers that are my 2 channel speakers. They needed a refoam, so I pulled them out of service, connected my Mini-monitors to the 2 channel setup and the Micros to the theater. This is when I really noticed the different in the theater. It was obvious where each of the 3 front speakers were now. The center sounded boxy, and the front surrounds just didn't blend. (as well) I did not notice this before I got the MM's and revealed what was missing. Then after I got the refoaming done, I did a comparison of the MM's against the BA Towers. The MM's won initially. The BA's sounded thin compared to the MM's. That's when I went to the 'break-in' of the newly refoamed BA's. I let them play 6 days in a row with some cd's with heavy bass. 50-60 hours. Then I re-compared them to the MM's. The BA's opened up and killed the MM's in not only the bass, but in clarity, soundstaging, and air.

That's my recent experience with intermixing versions and speaker break-in. Good Luck!

It's ironic--if not twisted--that some Paradigm owners would claim that Paradigm speakers would require extended break in to produce certain frequencies at certain SPL levels.

I can only assume that these individuals--hereafter, TWOE (as Roger Russell framed it, "Those Who prefer Occult Explanations")--are either unaware of or choose to ignore Paradigm's roots in Floyd Toole's groundbreaking work at Canada's National Research Council. I'll not attempt to provide even a summarized history of Toole's work at the NRC and his subsequent work at Harmon International. For those seeking such a history, a Google search will return a wealth of information.

TWOEs would do well do consider the weight of scientific studies that works against their championing of speaker break in. Consider, for instance, the following from Alan Lofft of Axiom Audio:

Incidentally, during my many years on listening panels at the National Research Council, for my work reviewing speakers for the magzine I edited (Sound&Vision Canada), we kept various speakers, good and bad, as "anchors" for use during double-blind tests. These sonic anchor speakers were mixed with the actual models under test, partly to confirm our own listening consistency and to provide a range of rankings. (In some tests where there were several models that were "similarly good," we sometimes had to have a real clunker in there just to remind us of how bad some brands really are!). What is amazing is the consistency of the rankings of the same anchor speakers over many years by different listeners, even down to the tenths of a point. These were driven hundreds of hours, and the frequency response curves never changed a fraction of a dB, nor did the listening test rankings, so that relegated the notion of speaker break-in to the status of myth. If the loudspeaker's characteristics changed over time, these changes would show up in the measurements and also in the controlled listening tests.

A comment as well on heat dissipation: Years ago, Kef used a popular T27 tweeter with a phenolic dome (it was used on a pair of audiophile favorites, the BBC monitor (LS3-5A), built by Rogers, Kef and other Brits). Under high volume conditions, this speaker's frequency response curve changed quite dramatically. After experimentation, Dr. Floyd Toole discovered that the T27's dome tweeter began to melt from heat and actually changed shape at high volume, so its dispersion traits changed. When you lowered the volume, the dome resumed its original shape! That's the only instance I can recall of a speaker's response changing in measurable and audible fashion in almost two decades of listening tests.

Speaker break-in is another one of these faddish notions promulgated by high-end niche magazines, which at their core are fundamentally anti-science.

Speaker break-in is a psycho-acoustical phenomenon where your ears and brain adjust to a different set of speaker dispersion traits that energize reflections and room modes in different ways.
See http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/speakers-subwoofers/117744-do-speakers-really-break-does-your-ear-just-finally-relent.html

None of this is to say that break in doesn't occur with speakers. Rather break in doesn't take hours or weeks and this break in doesn't result in significant audible differences. In the paper "Precision Measurement of Loudspeaker Parameters," David Clark noted that speaker break in occurs in less than one minute (Papers from the 99th Convention of the AES).

TWOEs need to come clean on the issue of speaker break-in and either refute the scientific evidence or admit that they are willing victims of psychoacoustics.

looking for center for studio 20 v3 I know the proper match is either the cc470 v3 or the cc570 v3 .The problem is I dont have that much space I would like to use possibly the millenia 20, how would this sound.Any other possibilities out there! Any help or thoughts would be great thanks!

How did the two version sound together?:rolleyes:

The 590 is very good it matches well and blends seamlessly with the 40s.

looking for center for studio 20 v3 I know the proper match is either the cc470 v3 or the cc570 v3 .The problem is I dont have that much space I would like to use possibly the millenia 20, how would this sound.Any other possibilities out there! Any help or thoughts would be great thanks!

If you are using 20v3's for your l and r
it would be a perfect match as long as
you don't lay it on its side.

Yeah, that's the problem, is there aren't any dealers within an hour or two of me. I'd love to go hear them myself, but that doesn't seem possible, at least not until I make a trip back to St. Louis. That's why I hoped someone on here had heard them back to back.
CJV998,
To try and answer your original questions - brightness comparison from Monitor v5 to Studio v4:
I had Monitor 11's and a cc390, v5. I really liked them a lot. I did, as did you, notice they were a little forward (bright). I recently upgraded to Studio 100's and cc690 v4. I can tell you the Studios are much smoother and not as bright as the Monitors. You will definately love them. (who doesn't)
Just before I got the 100s I picked up a NEW pair of Studio 20's v4 in Ebay. Since I got the 100's I don't need them now and need to sell them (to help pay for the 100's). If you are interested, PM me.

Wooo Hooo.... theres a great offer on the plate right there...

Way to step up Jar5197.. Thats helpin out a fellow Paradigm Lover !!!!
BTW, Congrats on the 100's 690... Excellent setup if I do say so myself...

Wooo Hooo.... theres a great offer on the plate right there...

Way to step up Jar5197.. Thats helpin out a fellow Paradigm Lover !!!!
BTW, Congrats on the 100's 690... Excellent setup if I do say so myself...

Yeah, I'd love to take him up on the offer, I really would.

Unfortunately, it looks like money will be extremely tight for me the next couple months. I'm moving across the country for a new job straight out of college, so I don't exactly have a lot of money saved up that I can use to move. At any rate, it'll be interesting to see how that works out.

Anyway, good luck finding a buyer on those Studio 20's; I'm sure it won't be a problem, they sound like they're great speakers.

Does anyone here own these, or has anyone had the opportunity to give them a serious listen?

I want to consider them for sides and rears. Thanks.

Does anyone here own these, or has anyone had the opportunity to give them a serious listen?

I want to consider them for sides and rears. Thanks.
If you are referring to the 20's yes i use them in the rear just a side note
they need to be at least 4ft from the listener for best results mine are 6ft
away and yes i like the way they handle my multi-ch music and movies but
would probably consider adp's for the sides if i was interested in 7.1 which
i am not.

If you are referring to the 20's yes i use them in the rear just a side note
they need to be at least 4ft from the listener for best results mine are 6ft
away and yes i like the way they handle my multi-ch music and movies but
would probably consider adp's for the sides if i was interested in 7.1 which
i am not.

Not the 20's (Studio 20?), but the speakers warpdrv posted info for:

New Model! W5 – Six driver 3.5-way on-wall: 2 x 7-inch bass, 2 x 7-inch mid/bass, 4.5-inch mid, 1-inch P-Be; $2800/ea

Not the 20's (Studio 20?), but the speakers warpdrv posted info for:

New Model! W5 – Six driver 3.5-way on-wall: 2 x 7-inch bass, 2 x 7-inch mid/bass, 4.5-inch mid, 1-inch P-Be; $2800/ea

Sorry can't help you ,no experience with on walls.

Look, there's a lot of mechanical elements in the speakers.

No, there aren't. The number of moving parts is quite small.

To think that "out of the box" they are behaving exactly as they will after hours of play, is like thinking your car won't change when you drive it off the lot.

No, because in a car there ARE lots of mechanical elements in play.

A loudspeaker is not a car.


If they were 100% digital, I'd agree, but they aren't. There are a lot of moving parts, and it takes a little bit of time for the mechanical aspects to "settle in".

But there aren't a lot of moving parts.

(And as partly scientific, since I was getting different sound I decided to take some SPL measurements again (on a tripod, at marked locations). No surprise, the SPL readings changed

That would actually be highly surprising, if indeed the measurements were taken from exactly the same position and nothing else had changed. Which SPL measurements were taken, and how much had they changed?

and I had to re-run Audyssey after a couple weeks. Mostly mid- and high- frequencies. Nothing else in the room has changed.)

Sorry, that's not at all convincing evidence. Small variation in microphone position inherent in any such re-measurement, would be expected to produce differences in mid/high frequency readings particularly.

If you were to remove the tripod/mic, wait ten minutes, then set it up for another set of measurements, I'd bet you get slightly different settings as well. Is that 'break in'?

Um, sound is only produced through moving the air... which is a result of moving the speaker elements.

A speaker is all about moving parts. Otherwise there is no sound.

Whatever. This isn't the thread for this discussion anyway. Feel free to start a "speakers don't break in" thread if you want.

In the mean time, I'm enjoying the improving sound of my speakers these first 50 hours or so. Psycho-acoustic or not, they sound better over time, which is the main point anyway. The actual cause is sort of irrelevant.

Well here is Paradigms thoughts on "break in".
"Although Paradigm® and Paradigm® Reference speakers sound great right out of the carton, they will sound even better once they are broken-in. We therefore recommend that you operate the speakers for several hours before you do any critical listening."

And here are Audioholics thoughts on it. The first page is pretty thorough.
http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction/?searchterm=break%20in

Hi
Im using some paradigm ams300's in the ceiling in my HT setup. They currently are not boxed in . Does anyone have any experience with in-ceiling setups and how performance might change if the speakers were boxed in ?
my ceilings at that point ar 8' high with about a 3 foot wide attic above the speakers

thanks

Um, sound is only produced through moving the air... which is a result of moving the speaker elements.

How many of these 'elements' are there? A lot?

A speaker is all about moving parts. Otherwise there is no sound.

OK, try omitting all the nonmoving parts from your loudspeakers, and see how they sound. Take out the crossover, for starters.

In the mean time, I'm enjoying the improving sound of my speakers these first 50 hours or so. Psycho-acoustic or not, they sound better over time, which is the main point anyway. The actual cause is sort of irrelevant.

It becomes relevant when dubious claims are made about it. This is, after all, an audio forum.

Btw, even Paradigm (covering their a**es for the tweako market) only recommends 'several' hours of 'break in'...you're saying you needed 50??

Um, sound is only produced through moving the air... which is a result of moving the speaker elements.

A speaker is all about moving parts. Otherwise there is no sound.

Whatever. This isn't the thread for this discussion anyway. Feel free to start a "speakers don't break in" thread if you want.

In the mean time, I'm enjoying the improving sound of my speakers these first 50 hours or so. Psycho-acoustic or not, they sound better over time, which is the main point anyway. The actual cause is sort of irrelevant.

Sigh...people who don't have much of a clue on how a loudspeaker works should NOT get into scientific discussions on the subject!!! If you think the sound changed, then that's your opinion. But don't attempt to justify it scientifically.

As Krabapple stated, your Audyssey results prove nothing, as you can prove by rerunning the measurement repeatedly without changing anything. You will get slightly different results every time.

I'll quote myself.

In the mean time, I'm enjoying the improving sound of my speakers these first 50 hours or so. Psycho-acoustic or not, they sound better over time, which is the main point anyway. The actual cause is sort of irrelevant.

Feel free to continue to soap box and whine about how numbers on a piece of paper actually matter.

Hi
Im using some paradigm ams300's in the ceiling in my HT setup. They currently are not boxed in . Does anyone have any experience with in-ceiling setups and how performance might change if the speakers were boxed in ?
my ceilings at that point ar 8' high with about a 3 foot wide attic above the speakers

thanks

It mainly depends on how the speaker was meant to function infinite baffle
no inclosure bass reflex or ported needs an inclosure varying from this will
alter the mfg's original sound. The co i work for uses Triad which comes
inclosed and job specific.

I'll quote myself.



Feel free to continue to soap box and whine about how numbers on a piece of paper actually matter.

If you stick with this statement, I'm curious as to how you think you can maintain credibility on this forum.

You're grandstanding with occult beliefs.

...grandstanding...

It's pretty obvious you don't know what this word means.

...occult beliefs...

We can get into a religious debate later, as you'd surely lose. Please feel free to start a new thread on that, too.

(And I haven't checked, but I'm guessing you're a frequent poster to all "bi-amp" threads as well.)

It's pretty obvious you don't know what this word means.



We can get into a religious debate later, as you'd surely lose. Please feel free to start a new thread on that, too.

(And I haven't checked, but I'm guessing you're a frequent poster to all "bi-amp" threads as well.)

Bring whatever you've got. You will continue to embarrass yourself.

And, btw, bi-wiring is the oddball belief, bi-amping less so. :p

It may have already been posted but they have added some new stands on their
site in the catalog pdf they look like they are for the s1's.

Bring whatever you've got. You will continue to embarrass yourself.

And, btw, bi-wiring is the oddball belief, bi-amping less so. :p


Indeed... Anyone who uses a powered subwoofer is 'bi-amping'. Are we all witches and warlocks?

I am looking at the CC-590 and the CC-690. I am only going to be able to power my center with 140 watts from a Denon 4308. Should I just get the
cc-590? or would the 690 still sound better even with only 140 watts going to it?

I am looking at the CC-590 and the CC-690. I am only going to be able to power my center with 140 watts from a Denon 4308. Should I just get the
cc-590? or would the 690 still sound better even with only 140 watts going to it?

How big is the room and do you play it real loud.

i would say small room now, but will be moving in a couple years to a bigger house with, preferably, a much bigger Media room. All Movies, No music.
I love pumping up the volume!

i would say small room now, but will be moving in a couple years to a bigger house with, preferably, a much bigger Media room. All Movies, No music.
I love pumping up the volume!

If you cross over the sub at 80hz you would probably be ok the beauty part
of that receiver you can add amps if you have to.

yeah, I have my Studio 100's running off of a Anthem Statement P2, I just don't have anymore room in my audio tower for another amp. I knew I was going to need a third channel eventually, but I couldn't pass up the deal I got on the P2 a while back.

yeah, I have my Studio 100's running off of a Anthem Statement P2, I just don't have anymore room in my audio tower for another amp. I knew I was going to need a third channel eventually, but I couldn't pass up the deal I got on the P2 a while back.

I missed the part you had an amp powering the 100's already that frees up
the Denon substantially you should be more than ok.

It mainly depends on how the speaker was meant to function infinite baffle
no inclosure bass reflex or ported needs an inclosure varying from this will
alter the mfg's original sound. The co i work for uses Triad which comes
inclosed and job specific.
Im not sure what the paradigm ams300's are classified as - cant find a reference on the paradigm site
does anyone have an idea ?

thanks

ive been doing some shopping around for the past week or so and i came across some paradigm monitor 11's and a cc-390 center channel for $1387 so i went ahead and ordered. did i get a good deal? also does anyone know where i could pick up some adp-190's or 390's for a decent price?

Im not sure what the paradigm ams300's are classified as - cant find a reference on the paradigm site
does anyone have an idea ?

thanks

Its their in-wall and in-ceiling not familiar with them so can't say.should be
listed try typing the number on their search box.

What is the going price right now for a pair of Monitor 11s? If I ordered a pair, could I power them with a Yamaha RX-v1800 receiver at 130x7?

Go to your local dealer and find out...you can't order them over the internet. And yes, the 1800 would easily power them.

What is the going price right now for a pair of Monitor 11s? If I ordered a pair, could I power them with a Yamaha RX-v1800 receiver at 130x7?

i know they retail for 1398/pr. the 1800 should work fine as they informed me that my 663 would suffice.

ive been doing some shopping around for the past week or so and i came across some paradigm monitor 11's and a cc-390 center channel for $1387 so i went ahead and ordered. did i get a good deal? also does anyone know where i could pick up some adp-190's or 390's for a decent price?

Provided these are all new, .v5 (You didn't say on the Monitor 11's), and you're getting both for that price, I'd say yes that's a very good deal. Why can't you get the ADP's from the same place?

Provided these are all new, .v5 (You didn't say on the Monitor 11's), and you're getting both for that price, I'd say yes that's a very good deal. Why can't you get the ADP's from the same place?

lol i actually asked but he never got back to me on that. i dont have the money for them right now anyway so i was wondering if anyone knew of a place online that had them for cheapish.

and yes they are the v5's

This has come up a few times the last week or so. The answer is there are NO authorized Paradigm dealers that sell online. Wish there was, my local dealer was 5 minutes away. He has gone belly-up so now I have a 2 hour drive. Oh well, Paradigms are great speakers and well worth a little effort.

That being said, anyone looking to part with a nice "broken-in" black CC-690? Please send PM.

Does anyone know the re-sale value of the following:

Paradigm Atom v.5, CC-190 v.5, ADP-190 v.5, & PDR-8.

I'm selling them to finance the build of my Statements (http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/Statements.html).

Edit: I figured I'd just list them @ $750 (http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?spkrsyst&1213549844&2&3&4&).

This has come up a few times the last week or so. The answer is there are NO authorized Paradigm dealers that sell online. Wish there was, my local dealer was 5 minutes away. He has gone belly-up so now I have a 2 hour drive. Oh well, Paradigms are great speakers and well worth a little effort.



No there are no "Authorized" paradigm dealers on the net...

But there are certainly unauthorized paradigm speakers for sale on the net...
Audiogon
Videogon
Ebay
Craigslist

You may not get a warrantee, but most of the stuff out there is a great bargain and the savings for buying used is well worth it. It will allow you the opportunity to spend money in other areas of your system, or hey even better yet... Enjoy a Cocktail while you marvel at your system, knowing you saved a bundle over the Overpriced products you may or may not have been able to afford new...

As usual, Warp makes a good point. Quality speakers will sound great for many years. You certainly dont have to buy new to have a great sounding system.

No there are no "Authorized" paradigm dealers on the net...

But there are certainly unauthorized paradigm speakers for sale on the net...
...
You may not get a warrantee, but most of the stuff out there is a great bargain and the savings for buying used is well worth it.

100% AGREE! I got my pieces from a combination of audiogon, craig's list and ebay. I saved 50% off MSRP, and all items were either factory sealed boxes or barely used. Quite a bargain, and allowed me to upgrade to the ADP-3 v2s and save up $$ for a future amp.

And I'm picking up my last speaker from a dealer in LA, that will sell me a single S4 v2 to finish out my speakers.

Hey Fellow Paradigm Pals:

In my previous post, I mentioned that I only have one full sidewall in which I could place an ADP1. The other side wall extends only half way out and not enough to be effective.

What if I were able to place the ADP1s above the listening area on the ceiling? I know this sounds odd/crazy, but if I place them on the ceiling and slightly behind the listening area and somewhat close to the sidewalls, wouldn't I be getting the same surround sound effect as side wall placement?

Thanks!

Jimmy

What if I were able to place the ADP1s above the listening area on the ceiling? I know this sounds odd/crazy, but if I place them on the ceiling and slightly behind the listening area and somewhat close to the sidewalls, wouldn't I be getting the same surround sound effect as side wall placement?

If it were me, I wouldn't use ADP's if I hadn't any side or rear walls to work with. If you're looking at ceiling placement, then use Paradigm in-wall/ceiling spkrs.
OR think about using direct radiating speakers.

Are these prices updated? Studio 60 is now < 1k. Wow!!
http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html

Those prices look correct.

quick question. How much do the paradigm monitor series run? we have one dealer here and thats it. they carry klipsch and paradigm. I was interested in the Monitor 7,9, and 11. Also how much do the matching centers run,290 and 390. thanks.

Well according to the link re: prices two posts above yours...
http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html

Monitor 7 $379/ea
Monitor 9 $499/ea
Monitor 11 $699/ea

CC-290 $499/ea
CC-390 $699/ea

Well according to the link re: prices two posts above yours...
http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html

Monitor 7 $379/ea
Monitor 9 $499/ea
Monitor 11 $699/ea

CC-290 $499/ea
CC-390 $699/ea
yeah but I can get the Monitor 9s for $800 pair. The 11s for $1000 pair.

I know 6ave.com sells Paradigm. You have to call them to order though. Not sure what the does to the warranty. But how would they know if you called to order or purchased in the physical store?

yeah but I can get the Monitor 9s for $800 pair. The 11s for $1000 pair.

Did they fall off a truck... or are talking about v4 speakers?

Did they fall off a truck... or are talking about v4 speakers?

that is what my local dealer has them for. not sure the version since I dont know much about the paradigm line. thanks.

Posted by Nezff
How much do the paradigm monitor series run?
yeah but I can get the Monitor 9s for $800 pair. The 11s for $1000 pair.

I'm confused.

Posted by Nezff



I'm confused.
just like the klipsch line, my local dealer had them at a certain price, then someone else had them cheaper. just trying to figure out a roundabout price range.

hat is what my local dealer has them for. not sure the version since I dont know much about the paradigm line. thanks.

Well, if they are V.5, that would be a pretty good deal. About 15% which is pretty good,



unless your me..

Um, sound is only produced through moving the air... which is a result of moving the speaker elements.

A speaker is all about moving parts. Otherwise there is no sound.

Whatever. This isn't the thread for this discussion anyway. Feel free to start a "speakers don't break in" thread if you want.

In the mean time, I'm enjoying the improving sound of my speakers these first 50 hours or so. Psycho-acoustic or not, they sound better over time, which is the main point anyway. The actual cause is sort of irrelevant.



While your explanation of moving air blows, I'll stick up for breaking in speakers. I've only bought 2 pairs new, but both sounded VERY congested from the box, and quite obviously opened up after a few days of playing. Within hours there were obvious changes, which get harder to notice after day 1. A new speaker with a vented design is a good example - the port will begin to move more air after a while, a difference you can feel with your hand :rolleyes:

It's the spider, mainly. It has to achieve it's full amount of flex/compliance, and I suppose this goes for the surround and the cone to some extent.

Anyone who's convinced brand new drivers sound as good as ever has never used virgin drivers IMO. New and virgin is different mind you, a lot of stuff is "broken in" during testing or demos.

It's not magic or hearsay though, it's materials settling in. So never ever judge a brand new speaker out of the box. I got some very sweet deals on open box items this way :o

You might want to be concerned about your belief regarding speaker break in.

In his article "Audio's Top Urban Legend," Tom Nousaine had this to say:



See http://www.bruce.coppola.name/audio/BurnInLegend.pdf

And Audioholics has an interesting article:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction


You just proved him right:

Conclusion
In an electrodynamic driver featuring the usual surround-diaphragm-spider construction, driver suspension mechanical compliance plays a key roll in determining the measured value of various driver parameters. All of these parameters will shift as the mechanical compliance of the driver's suspension shifts in value. The bulk of a driver's compliance shift will occur at the time of initial burn in.


After a driver is made, the spider must be stretched. With cheaper speakers they get shipped right out the door. You plug them in, they suck, then in a few minutes they suck less and in an hour or two they are about what you'll get. If you do the FS sine stretch they mention, I'm sure the spider can be loosened up within 10 seconds. With normal music at regular levels like people do it tends to take longer.

I just purchased some older (but new) monitor 7s (v.3) yesterday, and I have buyer's remorse. I got them for $800, which is a great price for Paradigm in Korea, thanks to massive import taxes and fees on this overseas brand. At the time, I was asked if I wanted to buy the Monitor 11s for about $1,300 instead, but I declined. My orignal intention was to purchase something older -- version 1, 2, or 3 -- to match my current center channel and Mini-monitors closely.

I had no idea that the newer Paradigm Monitor 7s and 9s had been re-worked to include a 3rd driver. I had looked at the pics several times, but never noticed -- concentrating my attention instead on that white driver! The newer Monitor 7s were not in stock anyway, and Paradigm is hard to come by i Korea, but I still feel sad that I didn't get a newer version with a 3rd driver. They were all in the warehouse, so I just ordered them blind. I had heard the v.2 Monitor 7 before, and liked it, and I assumed the v.3 was pretty close.

I've read people say that the newer v.5 models with the 3rd driver show improved bass.

I'm not sure how much it matters, as I have a PDR-12 sub anyway. More mid-bass would be nice, though. :(

My room is not huge (12'x12'), so I talked myself out of spending another $500 to get the Monitor 11s in the first place. Also, I figured the newer tweeter wasn't a sonic match for my older LCR 350 center channel.

I think I made a mistake. :(

The seller was a wholesaler, so I don't think they would allow me to switch now that they've been opened. Maybe I'll like them better after they break in.

My receiver is a Marantz SR-8002.

How is everyone determining the version of their speakers? I have a set of Paradigm Monitor speakers and they don't have a version number on them. I purchased them around 1999.

How is everyone determining the version of their speakers? I have a set of Paradigm Monitor speakers and they don't have a version number on them. I purchased them around 1999.

The Paradigm plaque on the back usually states model and series.

just purchased some older (but new) monitor 7s (v.3) yesterday, and I have buyer's remorse. I
I think I made a mistake

Well I think you didn't. In my opinion the V.2,3,4's are better than the V.5's. I didn't like the V.5 7's when I heard them. No bass, and sizzling treble. The mids were fine, but that was about all. I can't remember the 9's very much, but the 11's were where the ball got rolling again. Directly comparing the 11 V.5's and V.4 7's (not much changed between 3 and 4) I would take the 7's. The 11's can pound it out, especially with the bass, but to me and the guy who's house we compared them in, we both thought the 7's were much smoother. Smaller room with sub? No brainer for me. Plus, you are right, the tweeter will match your 350 better.
Hopefully on V.6 in the Monitor line, Paradigm will trickle down the tweeter from the Studio line or go back to the old silk dome tweets that the MK series had (which they never should have gone away from in the first place).

I'm sure others here will dis-agree with what I've said, but I second your decision.
Enjoy them!

How is everyone determining the version of their speakers? I have a set of Paradigm Monitor speakers and they don't have a version number on them. I purchased them around 1999.


My version 1's (I got them in 2000) have no version number on them.

I am assuming that yours are version 1.

The really old "SE" models have different tweeters. Some kind of soft material.

should i make the jump to the studio 100s? I have enough money just for the fronts and i only listened to them briefly.The only problem is i still have the monitor cc390 (center),rears adp 390,ps3 80,ps1200 and a denon avr 2307. Your opinions will help a lot and i am also a new member.

Well I think you didn't. In my opinion the V.2,3,4's are better than the V.5's. I didn't like the V.5 7's when I heard them. No bass, and sizzling treble. The mids were fine, but that was about all. I can't remember the 9's very much, but the 11's were where the ball got rolling again. Directly comparing the 11 V.5's and V.4 7's (not much changed between 3 and 4) I would take the 7's. The 11's can pound it out, especially with the bass, but to me and the guy who's house we compared them in, we both thought the 7's were much smoother. Smaller room with sub? No brainer for me. Plus, you are right, the tweeter will match your 350 better.
Hopefully on V.6 in the Monitor line, Paradigm will trickle down the tweeter from the Studio line or go back to the old silk dome tweets that the MK series had (which they never should have gone away from in the first place).

I'm sure others here will dis-agree with what I've said, but I second your decision.
Enjoy them!


Thanks, that makes me feel a lot better.

I wish they were a bit taller overall, I guess. They are still being broken-in. Also I finally found what I think is the sweet spot for settings on my Marantz receiver. They all sound pretty good.

I thought I heard somewhere that the newer versions were a bit too bright.

Have the series below the Monitor (Phantom?) series now basically become the old Monitor series in build? They sure look similar. Or is that line gone now?

After a driver is made, the spider must be stretched. With cheaper speakers they get shipped right out the door. You plug them in, they suck, then in a few minutes they suck less and in an hour or two they are about what you'll get. If you do the FS sine stretch they mention, I'm sure the spider can be loosened up within 10 seconds. With normal music at regular levels like people do it tends to take longer.

You really should read the discussion as you're attempting to point out what has already been covered. :rolleyes:

1. Break-in does occur but it's within a very short period of time. The scientific evidence points to seconds or perhaps minutes. Not hours.

2. This break-in does not result in audible differences.

should i make the jump to the studio 100s?
What do you have now?

should i make the jump to the studio 100s? I have enough money just for the fronts and i only listened to them briefly.The only problem is i still have the monitor cc390 (center),rears adp 390,ps3 80,ps1200 and a denon avr 2307. Your opinions will help a lot and i am also a new member.
If music is part of your listening you will not regret it.

You just proved him right:

Conclusion
In an electrodynamic driver featuring the usual surround-diaphragm-spider construction, driver suspension mechanical compliance plays a key roll in determining the measured value of various driver parameters. All of these parameters will shift as the mechanical compliance of the driver's suspension shifts in value. The bulk of a driver's compliance shift will occur at the time of initial burn in.

After a driver is made, the spider must be stretched. With cheaper speakers they get shipped right out the door. You plug them in, they suck, then in a few minutes they suck less and in an hour or two they are about what you'll get. If you do the FS sine stretch they mention, I'm sure the spider can be loosened up within 10 seconds. With normal music at regular levels like people do it tends to take longer.

It's also worth noting that you didn't provide the entire conclusion. The entire conclusion provides a much different picture than the one you've attempted to paint.

Here's the full conclusion to the Audioholics article that I originally referenced:

Conclusion

In an electrodynamic driver featuring the usual surround-diaphragm-spider construction, driver suspension mechanical compliance plays a key roll in determining the measured value of various driver parameters. All of these parameters will shift as the mechanical compliance of the driver's suspension shifts in value. The bulk of a driver's compliance shift will occur at the time of initial burn in.

Subsequent shifts in compliance are largely temporary in nature. An example of one such mechanism contributing to such temporary shifts is that which arise from the elastic deformation of butadiene-styrene surrounds. Given sufficient time to recover, these changes tend to reverse themselves and the driver returns to its pre-stimulus state.

As the enclosure compliance in both totally enclosed boxes and vented cabinets dominates that of the driver for most practical implementations of either type enclosure currently in production, any potential changes in system amplitude response attributable to changes in driver suspension mechanical compliance tend to be minimized. Normal production unit-to-unit driver spec variances can affect final amplitude response of a system to a larger degree than that expected from normal pre- post-burn in driver suspension compliance changes.

And consider this from earlier in the same article:

Required break in time for the common spider-diaphragm-surround is typically on the order of 10s of seconds and is a one-off proposition, not requiring repetition. Once broken in, the driver should measure/perform as do its siblings, within usual unit-to-unit parameter tolerances.

How you think that this article proved right the opinion of someone who was claiming that his speakers were continuing to break-in & to sound better several weeks after he got them . . .

Well, let's just leave it at that.

I know there are not many owners out there yet, but I'm looking for advise on whether you think the S1, C1, ADP1 would be adequate for a medium sized space (13'x28') if setup with a high end sub such as the Sig Servo-15 v2. It is for home theater and multichannel music.

My other option would be Sig S2's up front with the C3 center, but since I'm ok with crossing over the sub even for 2 channel music listening, I'm not sure the S2/C3 will make any significant difference. I know the S2 and C3 both have greater bass extension but at, lets say an 80 Hz crossover with the sub, do you think they would be a significant increase in SPL or clarity over the S1/C1?

All things being equal I would go with the S2/C3 without hesitation, but budget is a concern so I don't want to spend the extra cash if no significant benefit.

Off topic a little here, but it's funny because about a year ago I was a fraction of an inch from pulling the trigger on the S8/C5/ADP3 combo but a beautiful 11 month old son has put a hold on that particular setup. Now I'm looking at the other end of the signature spectrum Oh well, the S8's will have to wait for another day.

Gooddoc, I don't own the S1 but I was looking closely at buying a set myself, but I would say that setup would be quite usable but borderline. The S1/C1 would be crossed over at 80Hz likely. Paradigm is proud of the SPL capability of the S1 but you would be pushing the S1 pretty hard to fill that sized room for demanding material.

The S1 is very capable, but you really need a good beefy amp to make it sing as it's a sealed box and pretty inefficient. The S2 will yield a lot more headroom and efficiency which would help a lot with two channel music. The S2 would buy you a safety net that would be worthwhile, but not absolutely necessary. I would more likely go with a S2/C1 combo for best results which wouldn't be that much more expensive.

I just ordered studio 100s(fronts) and do i need an amp as well because i have a denon 2307(100wts per channel) and if so need recommendations.

You never said what you had before. Unless you are using them primarily for music I would have probably stayed with what you have. Especially since the tweeters are different and you might be able to tell the difference between them and your 390.
What were you looking to gain?

The 100's will definitely benefit from an amp.
Adcom, ATI, Parasound, Anthem, Outlaw, Krell, Gryphon, MBL, Goldmund, Accuphase...

I just ordered studio 100s(fronts) and do i need an amp as well because i have a denon 2307(100wts per channel) and if so need recommendations.

They play well with anything capable of a true 125w on up and most important
and amp that will increase in wattage as the impedance gets lower.

I traded in my monitor 11s for studio 100s.I have monitor center cc 390,rears adp390 and ps1200.Ill wait till i can afford the studio center spk.

I just like the sound from the studios and i thought id grab them while i had the money because it would be awhile for an full upgrade of speakers

I just like the sound from the studios and i thought id grab them while i had the money because it would be awhile for an full upgrade of speakers

They have a great sound for the money spent.

They play well with anything capable of a true 125w on up.

What is this based on? Why 125w?
With the volume at a moderate level, would there be an audible difference between a 65w amp and a 125w amp?

What is this based on? Why 125w?
With the volume at a moderate level, would there be an audible difference between a 65w amp and a 125w amp?

Dynamic peaks have shown to go from 5watts to 120 watts at moderate
levels and no i don't have a link but there is one on this forum can't remember
where.

Warpdrive, that's the same thing I've been grappling with, but if I go with that logic then it kind of forces me into getting the C3 as well since it carries the same limitations as the S1 (not as limited, but close enough). The center channel for home theater is just as important(if not more) than the mains and if I'm going to conclude that the S1's won't cut it, then the C1 won't either. That then puts me $1,200-1,500 above my current price.

As far as design specs go I think the only real difference between the S1 & S2 is the 6" vs. 7" midrange/bass cones, the S2 is ported, and the S1 has a much smaller cabinet volume. The midrange/bass voice coils and the tweeters appear to be the same. Now I'm just speculating, but perhaps the cabinet design of the S1 has enabled higher SPL outputs in the midrange/upper frequencies compared to the current S2 cabinet design. So, perhaps even with the 1" smaller midrange/bass cone, the S1 is achieving outputs similar to the S2. Of course the S2 has the low frequency output that the S1 cannot achieve due to it's ported design and larger enclosure, but the servo-15 can easily handle those duties. The same may be the case for the C1. The reviewers certainly had no reservations about the output of the S1's, I am just having a hard time imagining these things filling my room with clean AND loud sound. But, I quote from Sound and Vision magazine, "they reached fully cinematic levels and more with ease and, in doing so, remained clean and smooth".:confused: Was he in a closet?:D

As you very succinctly pointed out, it is a safety net to go with the S2's, but as I said I would then feel obligated to go with the C3 and I'm then busting my budget for sure. I've already paid for the S1/C1/ADP1/Servo-15 but I know the store is not going to actually place the order with Paradigm until this Monday, so I have a couple of days to modify the order.

What to do, what to do.....Do you think my theory on the cabinet design and the output has any validity? I'm certainly no sound engineer, I'm sure that's painfully obvious:)

I have a few comments about how much power and speaker SPL capability might be desireable (mostly taken from posts I've made on other threads). One key question though, is whether one listens to music at all, or just movies.

For movies the THX recommendation is that satellite speakers be able to produce 105dB at the listening position.

IMO, for music, one thing that distinguishes "live" sound is *loud* PEAKS (I am distinguishing short-term peaks from continuous 115dB or whatever, which would be harmful to your ears). For instance, this is from the Musical Fidelity site:

How loud should musical peaks be?

Several years ago, John Atkinson, editor of Stereophile, measured,
from a normal audience position, the peak level produced by a small
symphony orchestra in a concert hall. He measured peaks of 109dB to
110dB. One of the top recording engineers in the world, Tony
Faulkner, regularly measures 113dB to 116dB peaks from large
symphony orchestras. Rock music is even louder. Please understand
that these levels are on musical peaks, and not average continuous
levels.

If a hi-fi system is to be realistic, it should be able to achieve
realistic peak levels at a normal listening position.
.
.
.
it is beyond dispute that the smaller amplifier will be
incapable of ever, under any circumstances, producing a significant
dynamic attack. In our opinion, dynamic attack is vital to the
realistic reproduction of music.


Also, Check page 2 of the following:
http://www.baua.de/nn_53260/en/Topics-from-A-to-Z/Noise/pdf/Presentation-Safe-Sound-2007-03.pdf
I read the graph at the bottom of the page to indicate that measured 25 meters from the front of the stage, the QUIETEST of 70+ measured concerts had peak SPL of about 108dB. The AVERAGE concert had peak SPL of perhaps 117dB (eyeballing it).

Also, the following calculator is useful:
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Lastly, you have to ask whether your speakers are capable of playing peaks at your desired level, without distortion becoming excessive.

In sum, my suggestion is to get the "most" speaker one can afford (like, S2 over S1), and if one wants to have ample power on hand for realistic or near-realistic peaks, use amps with at least Paradigm's recommended max amp power. Pro amps in particular should be considered, as these give great "bang for the buck":

I'm definitely in the Peter Aczel camp ("Any two amplifiers with high input impedance, low output impedance, flat frequency response, and sufficiently low distortion and noise will sound exactly the same at matched levels if not clipped").

Crown and QSC are among the respected companies; imo stay away from Behringer, though. As an example, let's take the QSC RMX1850HD (350W/8ohms, $529 at Guitar Center, probably less elsewhere, http://media.qscaudio.com/pdfs/Specifications/RMX_spec.pdf)

Signal to Noise (20 Hz - 20 kHz) 8Ω: >-100dB
Distortion (SMPTE-IM): <0.02%
Distortion 20 Hz - 20 kHz: 10 dB below rated power < 0.03% THD / 4Ω and 8Ω
Distortion 1.0 kHz and below: full rated power < 0.03% THD / 4Ω and 8Ω

If these are well below the thresholds of audibility, do you need to pay more for better specs?

But for a real-world test, one can always try out pro amps for FREE and return them if you find them lacking. I've already called my local Guitar Center, and they have a 30-day unconditional satisfaction guarantee (like the website, but you wouldn't have to pay return shipping if you bought from a bricks and mortar store); other pro shops likely have similar policies.

If you do an A/B comparison, just make sure that the 2 amps are level-matched. Use a dB meter.

IMO, the past 25 years or so of published double-blind amp listening tests would suggest that, as Peter Aczel and others have indicated, most decently-constructed SS amps, not driven to clipping, will sound the same.

There is a pro amp thread over here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=418666

The reviewers certainly had no reservations about the output of the S1's

But were they comparing directly to S2's?

The S2 is specified as 4dB more efficient, with peak power capability of 225W vs 175W. That works out to a 5dB difference in volume capability.

And compare the THD+N at 95 dB / 2m for the S1 v.2:

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/paradigm_signature_s1_v2/thd_95db.gif

to the S2 v.1:

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/paradigm_signature_s2/thd_95db.gif

source http://www.soundstageav.com/speakermeasurements.html

My current setup:

Sony KDL-52XBR4
Denon AVR3803
Denon DVM1805
Sony CDP-CE405
Paradigm Studio 100 v.3 Cherry Fronts Ser.30211 and 30214
Paradigm PDR 12 Black Sub Ser.33213
Spendor C-3 Cherry Center Ser.C3A00023B
Spendor S3/5 R Cherry Surrounds Ser.003615 and 003616

I originally bought the Spendors to be my fronts, but felt they didn't have enough "push". At that time I was using an old set of Bose bookshelf speakers for surrounds.

Should I replace the Spendors with Paradigms? If so, which ones?

Also, I am thinking about buying a Denon 5308, 3800 and 3930 soon as replacements for the components.

Any feedback is welcome as I am learning all the time.

Thanks,

:)

My current setup:

Sony KDL-52XBR4
Denon AVR3803
Denon DVM1805
Sony CDP-CE405
Paradigm Studio 100 v.3 Cherry Fronts Ser.30211 and 30214
Paradigm PDR 12 Black Sub Ser.33213
Spendor C-3 Cherry Center Ser.C3A00023B
Spendor S3/5 R Cherry Surrounds Ser.003615 and 003616

I originally bought the Spendors to be my fronts, but felt they didn't have enpugh "push". At that time I was using an old set of Bose bookshelf speakers for surrounds.

Should I replace the Spendors with Paradigms? If so, which ones?

Also, I am thinking about buying a Denon 5308, 3800 and 3930 soon as replacements for the components.

Any feedback is welcome as I am learning all the time.

Thanks,

:)

If your not happy with the sound i would and if multi-ch music is of interests
then i would get the studios for the rear 20's make for a good blend.

oztech,

How did u know? Yes, multi-channel music is my thing, along with DVD music concerts in multi-channel (DTS!).

I'm curious why u would recommend the 20's vs. the ADP 590's that Paradigm recommends for surrounds?

Also, would the CC690 be the center to get?

Thanks alot...

oztech,

How did u know? Yes, multi-channel music is my thing, along with DVD music concerts in multi-channel (DTS!).

I'm curious why u would recommend the 20's vs. the ADP 590's that Paradigm recommends for surrounds?

Also, would the CC690 be the center to get?

Thanks alot...
Actually it would be better for 5 100's but due to space and cost this is not
feasible but adp's don't exactly give you the best multi-ch music expierence
least not for me so the 20's were a better compromise.The center would
be based on the size of the room and how far apart the l&r speakers are imo.

Agreed.... I have been experimenting back and forth with the Multichannel music from my bedroom setup (S4's C3, ADP's) and the Great Room (100's 690 20's) and I definately prefer the more solid direct presentation of the 20's for the rears instead of the smearing nature that the ADP's... Both sound good but there is no directivity of specific material from ADP's.

Warpdrive, that's the same thing I've been grappling with, but if I go with that logic then it kind of forces me into getting the C3 as well since it carries the same limitations as the S1 (not as limited, but close enough). The center channel for home theater is just as important(if not more) than the mains and if I'm going to conclude that the S1's won't cut it, then the C1 won't either. That then puts me $1,200-1,500 above my current price.

As far as design specs go I think the only real difference between the S1 & S2 is the 6" vs. 7" midrange/bass cones, the S2 is ported, and the S1 has a much smaller cabinet volume. The midrange/bass voice coils and the tweeters appear to be the same. Now I'm just speculating, but perhaps the cabinet design of the S1 has enabled higher SPL outputs in the midrange/upper frequencies compared to the current S2 cabinet design. So, perhaps even with the 1" smaller midrange/bass cone, the S1 is achieving outputs similar to the S2. Of course the S2 has the low frequency output that the S1 cannot achieve due to it's ported design and larger enclosure, but the servo-15 can easily handle those duties. The same may be the case for the C1. The reviewers certainly had no reservations about the output of the S1's, I am just having a hard time imagining these things filling my room with clean AND loud sound. But, I quote from Sound and Vision magazine, "they reached fully cinematic levels and more with ease and, in doing so, remained clean and smooth".:confused: Was he in a closet?:D

As you very succinctly pointed out, it is a safety net to go with the S2's, but as I said I would then feel obligated to go with the C3 and I'm then busting my budget for sure. I've already paid for the S1/C1/ADP1/Servo-15 but I know the store is not going to actually place the order with Paradigm until this Monday, so I have a couple of days to modify the order.

What to do, what to do.....Do you think my theory on the cabinet design and the output has any validity? I'm certainly no sound engineer, I'm sure that's painfully obvious:)

All very good points... I would imagine YMMV depending on room size as well... I'm sure your choices will work great, and you will be one of the first to give us an in home review of those items.. If you go through with your order, I look forward to your thoughts on your setup, please come back and let us know how it turned out... :)

oztech,

I had to take a lunch break and run some errands.

The Studio 100 fronts are a little ove 9 feet apart.

Which center do u think would fit best?

Also, there is a set of Studio 100 v.2 on ebay that appear to be going for not much money. That would give me 4 100's and whatever center. What do u think?

I sit about 16 feet from the center speaker and have room for the 100's as surrounds. I could then use the spendors that are now surrounds as rears and go 7.1!

Thanks again,

:)

I would get the 690 just a side note do you have 2ft clearance from the walls for the 100's.Also if 9ft apart i would try to set plus or minus that distance from
the front soundstage for a better listening experience.

oztech,

What do u think- Used 100's v.2 or new 20's?

My fronts are about as far apart I can get them and still have some standoff from the walls. I have them directed at the seating position and the surrounds are basically slightly behind and also directed at the seating position. I can't really move much closer because of the piano.

I'm going to post a pic of my setup as soon as my camera charges..

Thanks,

oztech,

What do u think- Used 100's v.2 or new 20's?

My fronts are about as far apart I can get them and still have some standoff from the walls. I have them directed at the seating position and the surrounds are basically slightly behind and also directed at the seating position. I can't really move much closer because of the piano.

I'm going to post a pic of my setup as soon as my camera charges..

Thanks,
If you can get ample clearance for the 100's in the rear why not but if they
are close to the wall in the rear it will cause the bass to be on the boomy
side besides other areas not sounding as good as they should and you need
6 or 7 ft of room from your seating and those in the rear or it will always
have that distracting in your face rears.

oztech,

Thanks for the inputs. I'll have to do some thinking.

Happy listening. I'm off to my dealer to see about replacing my AVR and DVD player.....

:)

Hey warpdrive, you the same poster as warpDRV? I'm confused.:eek: I feel like I'm at the circus talking to the two-headed man :D

But were they comparing directly to S2's?

The S2 is specified as 4dB more efficient, with peak power capability of 225W vs 175W. That works out to a 5dB difference in volume capability.

And compare the THD+N at 95 dB / 2m for the S1 v.2:

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/paradigm_signature_s1_v2/thd_95db.gif

to the S2 v.1:

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/paradigm_signature_s2/thd_95db.gif

source http://www.soundstageav.com/speakermeasurements.html

syswei, thanks for your input. What I'd really like to see is THD-N charts at 110 dB :D. I've already committed to the Onkyo Sr-875 receiver, but I will definitely have to look into pro amps if I decide to go with separates in the future. Although not as powerful as I would like, for $1,000 I couldn't pass it up.


Warpdrv.....err, I mean....warpdive - I'll be sure to post in a few weeks with a full report on the S1 series. IF, and that's a big IF, I can resist the urge to upgrade to the S2/C3.

Warpdrv:

I gather that you are using the Great Room for home theater? If so, how do you like the sound of movies played through that sysytem? If you had to change anything with that setup (100's, 690's, 20's) what would you change and why?

If you are using the Great Room for home theater, why not use the adp/590's in that system and put the 20's in your Bedroom system which seems to be more for multichannel music?

Thanks! Jimmy

Just purchased my first set of paradigm speakers and have a couple questions.

first, i purchased the studio 60s and have wavered back and forth about the center. the dealer finally talked me into the cc-590 but said i could come back and trade for the cc-690 if i wasn't happy. what is the cc-690 going to give me over the 590 and is the 590 adequate for the 60s?

second, do i need an amp to power the 60s? i have a yamaha rx-v1800 receiver that is rated 130x7. room is a converted 1 car garge to ht room.

Just purchased my first set of paradigm speakers and have a couple questions.

first, i purchased the studio 60s and have wavered back and forth about the center. the dealer finally talked me into the cc-590 but said i could come back and trade for the cc-690 if i wasn't happy. what is the cc-690 going to give me over the 590 and is the 590 adequate for the 60s?

second, do i need an amp to power the 60s? i have a yamaha rx-v1800 receiver that is rated 130x7. room is a converted 1 car garge to ht room.
I would think the 590 would be fine in a wide room where the l&r speakers
are far apart then maybe a 690 would be preferred remember speakers need
space around them.You can always try the 690 and as for the amp if you play at very loud levels then yes i would get an amp.

Warpdrv:

I gather that you are using the Great Room for home theater? If so, how do you like the sound of movies played through that sysytem? If you had to change anything with that setup (100's, 690's, 20's) what would you change and why?

If you are using the Great Room for home theater, why not use the adp/590's in that system and put the 20's in your Bedroom system which seems to be more for multichannel music?

Thanks! Jimmy

My great room is huge and side speakers are placed really far from LP, therefore the direct radiating is a better choice for my situation, and I entertain in that room for more people and music is played quite a bit there. Entertaining in the bedroom mostly consists of Porn or Barry White !! Less need for multichannel there... ;) Bedroom is way to narrow for 20's to be hanging off the wall, they just look rediculus in there...

As far as changing anything in the Great Room... Its a bright room and I need acoustic treatment or more dampening. Other then that, I love the sound, and Movie experience is awesome...

what is the cc-690 going to give me over the 590 and is the 590 adequate for the 60s?

It is going to give you more low end. it will fill a bigger room more easily as well. If you room is small-ish, stick with the 590. It's great and put the money into an amp.
The 60's/590 will shine with an amp. 130x7? Not likely. Don't get hung up on watts, especially with a receiver.

I have the new Pioneer 94 receiver does this put out enough power to run the studio 100's?
Thanks

I have the new Pioneer 94 receiver does this put out enough power to run the studio 100's?
Thanks

Sure. Would you benefit from an amp? YES!

Although, I have a friend who has the Pio. 82tx and was using a Rotel 1075. He sold the 1075 and is between amps and is having a hard time telling the difference without it...he's driving 100's/ 690.

Yesterday I finally got around to hanging one of my ADP 190's on the wall with the wall bracket that came with the speaker. I have it mounted per the instructions but I was scared to let go of the speaker once I sat it down in the grooves of the bracket on the wall. A couple of times it almost fell out off the wall had I not been holding it firmly. I think once I get them on the bracket good enough, I shouldn't have to worry about them dropping to the floor.

Are you all using the supplied brackets for those speakers or are you using after market brands of speaker mounts?

I am probably am just going to have to fiddle around with them to get them to sit on those brackets firmly like I want them too!

Thanks

in a couple days ill be picking up some monitor 11 v.5's and a cc-390. i dont have money for the adp-390s i want. so my question is, what would make a decent, affordable set of paradigm surrounds that i would be able to move to the back(7.1) when i got the money for the 390's? i guess it would be between the atoms and the mini monitors. also what is the street price on these? OR should i just stick with the 3 fronts until i have enough for the 390s???

themiz69, my suggestion would be to have patients and buy some used adp-390's off audiogon or ebay when them come up... it would be worth your while and you can save some money...

Tons of stuff out there like that if you have patients...

ok i just got my fronts, have had the center for about a week.

i purchased 2 brand-new titan monitor v.5's and a cc-190.

my surrounds will be mini-monitor's or atom monitor's. possibly one of the ADP sets. not sure yet. those ADP's sure are pricey and i haven't heard a set yet.

currently my surrounds are cheap sony HTIB surrounds. budget should be two weeks or so on the "real surrounds".

i've also ordered a SVS powered cylinder for my sub.

anyway just finished playing with my audessey set up on my denon 2808. these speakers are fantastic. i have a question on the crossover freq?

the auto setup set the front and center crossover at 40 HZ. should i change this to something closer to 80hz considering the sub i am getting?

never ran through this before so pardon my noobishness ;)

ok i just got my fronts, have had the center for about a week.

i purchased 2 brand-new titan monitor v.5's and a cc-190.

my surrounds will be mini-monitor's or atom monitor's. possibly one of the ADP sets. not sure yet. those ADP's sure are pricey and i haven't heard a set yet.

currently my surrounds are cheap sony HTIB surrounds. budget should be two weeks or so on the "real surrounds".

i've also ordered a SVS powered cylinder for my sub.

anyway just finished playing with my audessey set up on my denon 2808. these speakers are fantastic. i have a question on the crossover freq?

the auto setup set the front and center crossover at 40 HZ. should i change this to something closer to 80hz considering the sub i am getting?

never ran through this before so pardon my noobishness ;)
I would think 70 to 80hz would work a lot better and have less load on the 2808.

thats what i was thinking i set it to 80, i'll reasses when i get the SVS.

Are you running a sub now..? If not the receiver is probably running your speakers as large, but when you get your sub, you will want to reset your speakers to small and have sub set to yes...

Ultimately you should have an SPL meter and do some testing in your room to figure out what x-over your speakers should be set to in conjunction with your sub...

yes i have a sub now, it's an 8 inch powered sony, not very good though. i can't wait till i get my new sub. there's a radio shack down the street i'll stop in and pick up a spl meter this week sometime


thanks guys

Our Basement was suppose to be finished before last September, so the TV we plan to get is about $1,000 less so we either saved that or can use it to get better speakers than planned.

Onkyo 806 7.1 setup, 12x28x9, 73in TV (Mits WD-73833) 11ft view distance (65in probably to small), so the rear surrounds will be about 13ft behind.

The original plan was:

L/R/C ------------- Cinema 220
Surrounds --------- Cinema 110
Rear Surrounds ---- Cinema 110
Sub -------------- PDR 12

Total Retail cost approx: $1,640

New plan:

L/R --------------- Monitor 7
C ----------------- CC-290
Surrounds --------- Cinema 110
Rear Surrounds ---- Cinema 110
Sub --------------- UltraCube 10

Total Retail cost approx: $2,520


The original plan was $1,900-$2,000 on speakers 4 of which are in the adjoining room for music. Which are either Cinema 70 or 90 ($260-$360) so that adds on to the $2,520. The 806 will cost about $1,000. Budget is $6,000-$7,000 for TV and Audio.

Now all the monitor series surrounds are dipole which I have never heard and not sure if I would like them over direct, they are also significantly more expensive. I tried going with the system that Paradigm recommends but a pair of 390's would cost more than the Monitor 7 and the 390 price is to much. And the a room connects (11 foot wide opening and its 25ft long) to this in the back on the right side (facing TV) so a Dipole speaker for the rear would probably be a bad idea.

I could drop back to the PDR 12 and save $300 but the UltraCube 10 has gotten really good reviews.

The rears are far away (about the same distance that the fronts are from the listening area). I guess I kinda fear that with the power in the front the surrounds may feel lacking or overwhelmed by them.

Am I making a mistake with my Surround and Rear Surrounds by keeping them 110's?

Paradigm only allows sales from customer installers and/or mid/higher end specialty stores. No one is allowed to sell these over the net. Don't be intimidated by these stores. I have found that most Paradigm dealers, have great relationships with their customers. I don't know if this is because Paradigm is very selective of their dealers or what but I always feel welcome when I walk into a Paradigm retailer.

BR

I know this post is a couple of months old, but I'm experiencing some frustration with the Paradigm 'business model' right now that is related.

<RANT>
There is ONE dealer within a 100 mile radius or so of my location (central OK), according to the Paradigm website. After auditioning several speakers for an hour or so at this dealer, and listening to many other brands of speakers at other stores, I've decided on a pair of Monitor 7's. This dealer quoted me $800 for the 7's, with a 4-6 week wait time (I want Rosenut, which he doesn't stock). No discounts, even for cash. Huh? If the information I found online is correct, that is $50 or so above MSRP! This is ridiculous - just because he has the monopoly in this part of the world. I know he let me listen for an hour or so, and I'm not looking at the high end stuff, but come on...

From a consumer standpoint, this is extremely frustrating! I guess this model works for them, as they've been in business with it for several years. I understand the reasoning behind it, but as a consumer it sucks.
</RANT>

Ok, I'm done ranting now. I guess I'll be taking a road trip soon. At this point I'd rather spend $150 on gas than support this greedy dealer...

I know this post is a couple of months old, but I'm experiencing some frustration with the Paradigm 'business model' right now that is related.

<RANT>
There is ONE dealer within a 100 mile radius or so of my location (central OK), according to the Paradigm website. After auditioning several speakers for an hour or so at this dealer, and listening to many other brands of speakers at other stores, I've decided on a pair of Monitor 7's. This dealer quoted me $800 for the 7's, with a 4-6 week wait time (I want Rosenut, which he doesn't stock). No discounts, even for cash. Huh? If the information I found online is correct, that is $50 or so above MSRP! This is ridiculous - just because he has the monopoly in this part of the world. I know he let me listen for an hour or so, and I'm not looking at the high end stuff, but come on...

From a consumer standpoint, this is extremely frustrating! I guess this model works for them, as they've been in business with it for several years. I understand the reasoning behind it, but as a consumer it sucks.
</RANT>

Ok, I'm done ranting now. I guess I'll be taking a road trip soon. At this point I'd rather spend $150 on gas than support this greedy dealer...

If you are happy with the speakers and think those are the ones for you, find a pair used and save yourself a little money, and screw that jerk of a dealer... I have bought used and am happy as a clam !!!

That also gives you the opportunity to step up to a better speaker if you so choose... :)

Check out Audiogon, ebay, and videogon..
Lots of deals out there...

If you are happy with the speakers and think those are the ones for you, find a pair used and save yourself a little money, and screw that jerk of a dealer... I have bought used and am happy as a clam !!!

That also gives you the opportunity to step up to a better speaker if you so choose... :)

Check out Audiogon, ebay, and videogon..
Lots of deals out there...

I'm looking... I'm looking...

I'd love to find some 7 v.4's. C'mon, someone is surely ready to trade up... ;)

I'm looking... I'm looking...

I'd love to find some 7 v.4's. C'mon, someone is surely ready to trade up... ;)

thats terrible, i was really pleased with my paradigm dealer he gave me a 10 percent cash discount, and had my speakers in a week. a set of titan monitors and a cc-190

but yea i understand you, im lucky my dealer is only about 4 miles from my house.

I have noticed since Paradigm had a price increase dealers are reluctant to budge.

Paradigm dealers must be feeling the "pinch" that all of us are feeling regarding the economy. I know what I want to buy and was definitely more ready to purchase back in December than I am now. Every time I hear about layoffs, unemployment, recession, housing foreclosures, gas prices, etc., it just makes me hesitate in spending so much money on speakers. I know I'm not the only one and this should make Paradigm dealers even more aggressive in their pricing than to hold out for minimum discounts that pale in comparison to discounts offered by other dealers' speaker lines which compare favorably to Paradigm in many ways.

I know that some of these dealers "can" offer more of a discount and if they did, they would have already had my purchasing dollar in their bank accounts. Instead, I can afford to wait until they "wake up" to the current state of the economy and the reluctance of many consumers willing to part with thousands of dollars for what are definitely becoming "luxury" items.

Paradigm dealers must be feeling the "pinch" that all of us are feeling regarding the economy. I know what I want to buy and was definitely more ready to purchase back in December than I am now.

Just look for good deals on a-gon, ebay, and craig's list. Pretty easy to save 50% off MSRP.

There is ONE dealer within a 100 mile radius or so of my location (central OK), according to the Paradigm website.

You probably know this but the Paradigm website will only show one dealer per search. To find other dealers you have to enter other zip codes, for instance.

You probably know this but the Paradigm website will only show one dealer per search. To find other dealers you have to enter other zip codes, for instance.

If you type in 19141 you get two dealers.

You probably know this but the Paradigm website will only show one dealer per search. To find other dealers you have to enter other zip codes, for instance.

Yeah, I have plugged in all kinds of zipcodes from all over OK. All turn up just one except Tulsa area, which turns up 2. Everything in central OK turns up just the one. :(

You probably know this but the Paradigm website will only show one dealer per search. To find other dealers you have to enter other zip codes, for instance.

Incorrect. When San Diego had two dealers, it showed both of them. Since then once went belly up, but they were displayed.

Edit: If you plug in a LA zipcode, a whole list of dealers appear.

Hi - I have a pair of Monitor 9v.5 speakers. I have a hard time finding spade lugs that fit around the posts. I have tried some from Blue Jeans Cables and RadioShack, but none of them is wide enough. Can anyone recommend a vendor that has suitable lugs?

Thanks. Best - MM