Would anyone please comment on your opinion of the Studio V3 line vs. the Studio V4 line. Particularly the 60's and the 570's.
Thanks for you opinions!


They sound a little different.

You're going to have to listen to both to determine if one sounds better than the other to your ears.

Try searching the thread for more opinions. Go back a number of pages around the time the v4s were released and start reading forward.

They sound a little different.

You're going to have to listen to both to determine if one sounds better than the other to your ears.

Try searching the thread for more opinions. Go back a number of pages around the time the v4s were released and start reading forward.


IMO, there was only a slight difference from the .v3's to .v4's.. hardly noticeable

Go back like 10 pages and read, this was just covered again recently.

Would anyone please comment on your opinion of the Studio V3 line vs. the Studio V4 line. Particularly the 60's and the 570's.
Thanks for you opinions!

You have to listen to see if it matters to you, but the V4's were a significant improvement over the V3's, since the V4's took the Sig v1's tweeters. (The V2-V3 wasn't much of a change, but the V3 to V4 was).

But again, the sound might not matter to you, and all that really matters with speakers is how they sound to your ears.

IMO, there was only a slight difference from the .v3's to .v4's.. hardly noticeable

Go back like 10 pages and read, this was just covered again recently.

I have to agree with Warp on this as for the change they used the dome of
the older sig tweeter and changed the mid to PAL aluminum.

You have to listen to see if it matters to you, but the V4's were a significant improvement over the V3's

:D:D

So far we have:

little improvement
slight difference
significant improvement

The key is, as everyone has said, you've got to listen and form your own opinion.

Just finished calibrating my new system, which is decidedly low-end in comparison to some of the setups being posted here, but still light-years beyond anyone else I know, and probably overkill for the space it's in.

I went in to my local Paradigm dealer to audition the Titan Monitors, which they didn't have. The Atoms sounded great, and the Mini Monitors audibly better, but not enough to justify the 50% higher cost. The salesman and I got to talking about my intended uses (primarily HT, but with music quality as the priority), and he convinced me to audition the floor-standing Monitor 7s.
I was completely blown away by their performance on all my test tracks (classical, jazz, salsa, electronica), but especially One Republik's Apologize. Bass line was well-defined, piano crisp, and vocals clear.
After some three hours of setup (primarily running, routing, and terminating my own cable from Blue Jeans Cable), I was ecstatic to discover that the setup sounds as fantastic in my home as it did in the store.

I ended up with:
Monitor 7s
CC-190
Atoms
PDR10
Denon 1908

A question: I ran the Denon's "auto setup" feature, with the included mic mounted on a tripod at all of the seating locations. It made some changes to gain (I think that's the word), and although the setup still sounds fantastic, it did before the changes were made, too. I can calibrate the picture of my new TV by eye, because I know what I'm looking for, but I haven't the foggiest when it comes to audio.

Should I just assume the automatic setup on the Denon gave me near-optimal settings? It seems to have measured the distance from me to the speakers pretty accurately, if that's any indication.

I Really love the way paradigm speakers sound

http://www.eliteavi.com

Would anyone please comment on your opinion of the Studio V3 line vs. the Studio V4 line. Particularly the 60's and the 570's.
Thanks for you opinions!

I have a mixed v.3/4 set and have no compliants. I have Studio 40's (same drivers as the 60's) and a CC-590 (all v.4) in front, and ADP 470 (v.3) surrounds. I just coudn't justify the expense of the v.4 ADP 590 surrounds.

My surrounds are basically the drivers from two v.3 Studio 20's in one box with a funky crossover. They sound great, although due to the design I'm listening to mostly indirect sound from them. The v.3 are great speakers, and I wouldn't hesitate to use them if you find some used in good shape. All that being said, however I wouldn't mix-n-match v.3/4 across the front stage due to the different tweeter.

I ended up with:
Monitor 7s
CC-190
Atoms
PDR10
Denon 1908

Should I just assume the automatic setup on the Denon gave me near-optimal settings? It seems to have measured the distance from me to the speakers pretty accurately, if that's any indication.

I would not trust where the Denon set the cross-overs. Typically, the auto routines are accurate with levels and distance, but a bit 'optimistic' with the bass capabilities of the speakers and may have set your 7's to 'large'. Use the published frequency repsonse to set the crossover frequencies.

Also, just curious why you chose the CC-190; space constraints? I think the 290 would be a better match for the 7's unless you listen to mostly 2-channel and HT is a lower priority.

Would anyone please comment on your opinion of the Studio V3 line vs. the Studio V4 line. Particularly the 60's and the 570's.
Thanks for you opinions!

Put me down for "a dramatic change" vote, and the most significant version change yet.

Should I just assume the automatic setup on the Denon gave me near-optimal settings? It seems to have measured the distance from me to the speakers pretty accurately, if that's any indication.

I agree with Mr. Hendrick.
I think you should us a tape measure and an SPL meter for levels and distance. If your Denon does auto-EQ, then try running that and see if you like the changes it makes. I know on Elite receivers you can choose to run just the EQ portion of their wicked awesome Auto Calibration.

Just wanted to say thanks for all the great advice from some forum members here ( you know who you are dont let me have to name names :) ). The rosewood signature 8 speakers were finally setup this past weekend after a torrid series of home remodeling which lasted a couple of months. They sound great to my ears and I have not yet begun to tweak as far as positioning so I would like some advice from anyone who has some experience in this area. The left speaker is approx 4ft from the left side wall
the right speaker is approx 6ft from right side wall. left and right speakers are approx 6 ft apart and 20inches from the rear wall, as you can also see the room opens up into the kitchen area. The speakers are also slightly toed in, trying to get away from using a subwoofer so any suggestion to get the best bass response would be appreciated. seating distance is 11ft
Equipment is as follows:

Proceed AVP2 preamp
Sony 777es 400 disk changer connected via optical cable to proceed AVP2 preamp (2 ch only mode)
Monster HTS 5100
Monster M1000 biwire cables
Anthem A5 5channel amp

I agree with Mr. Hendrick.
I think you should us a tape measure and an SPL meter for levels and distance.

One caveat to this is that the auto routines often return a value for the sub distance whcih is quite a bit different from the measured distance. This is due to delay introduced by the crossovers, etc. In this case, it is preferable to use the value the receiver measures, as this represents the 'acoustic' distance, not the physical distance.

Guys
After long debating between cables decision , I finally picked up the Calabrine cables.
I was looking for Monoprice and Bluejeanscable, that much cheaper.
I am an Electronics Engineer and I know ( and actually pointed few members here) that it will not be SQ difference between another cables and some expensive one and I could assemble all connectors myself. Anyway, submitted my order.
I just wanted to share, that these cables are looks gorgeous, great packaging, very thick and outstanding build quality. Even it expensive, I really like it and "going to beleive" (kidding) that my SQ will be better.

Connected them yesterday to Studio 100 and CC-690 - love it :-)

I would not trust where the Denon set the cross-overs. Typically, the auto routines are accurate with levels and distance, but a bit 'optimistic' with the bass capabilities of the speakers and may have set your 7's to 'large'. Use the published frequency repsonse to set the crossover frequencies.

If you have some time there is some good info in this thread. It's specific to audyssey room correction but the first 4-5 pages are interesting as Chris from audyssey is in on the discussion of large vs. small speaker settings.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=687600&highlight=audessy

After all is said and done, set it in the way that sounds best to you.

Just wanted to say thanks for all the great advice from some forum members here ( you know who you are dont let me have to name names :) ). The rosewood signature 8 speakers were finally setup this past weekend after a torrid series of home remodeling which lasted a couple of months. They sound great to my ears and I have not yet begun to tweak as far as positioning so I would like some advice from anyone who has some experience in this area. The left speaker is approx 4ft from the left side wall
the right speaker is approx 6ft from right side wall. left and right speakers are approx 6 ft apart and 20inches from the rear wall, as you can also see the room opens up into the kitchen area. The speakers are also slightly toed in, trying to get away from using a subwoofer so any suggestion to get the best bass response would be appreciated. seating distance is 11ft
Equipment is as follows:


Hey there neighbor man with the Sexy Rosewood Speakers... :) Wait ! thats me too... :D

Setup looks fantastic, although I have a big big problem, you need to post way more closeups of the S8's.. Other then that, I would personally try to spread them apart a bit more, maybe remove that plant on the left... I'm sure you r better half will probably have something to say about that. Maybe a touch more toe in.... As good as those Sigs image, you might not need any toe in at all... just a wall of sound coming from them... Looks like you have them plenty far from the wall, for less boomy bass.. good show...


Looks like you have some nice equipment.... I'll bet your S8's sound amazing... here's a link to my setup I posted over at Audioholics.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44008

I'd love to gtg with ya, your house or mine or both...

I would not trust where the Denon set the cross-overs. Typically, the auto routines are accurate with levels and distance, but a bit 'optimistic' with the bass capabilities of the speakers and may have set your 7's to 'large'. Use the published frequency repsonse to set the crossover frequencies.

Also, just curious why you chose the CC-190; space constraints? I think the 290 would be a better match for the 7's unless you listen to mostly 2-channel and HT is a lower priority.

Here's the results of the Denon's Audyssey auto-configure:

Speaker Sizes
Front: small
Center: small
Sub: yes
Surround: small

Distance (auto-detected / actual)
FL: 6.7ft / 5.5ft
FR: 6.7ft / 5.5ft
C: 6.4ft / 5.5ft
SW:8.5ft/ 7.5ft
SL: 4.1ft / 3.0ft
SR: 4.0ft / 3.0ft

Levels
FL: +0.5dB
FR: +0.5dB
C: -1.5dB
SW:-5.5dB
SL: +3.0dB
SR: +3.0dB

Crossover (auto-set / Paradigm low-range rating)
Front: 40Hz / 54Hz
Center: 120Hz / 90Hz
Surround: 60Hz / 90Hz

It seems to have done decently with distance (consistently off by ~1ft), but is all over the map with crossover, so I suppose I'll sit down and give it the proper numbers. Also, I'm a bit puzzled by it cranking down the sub volume by some 5dB; wouldn't it be better to set that to 0 and just physically turn down the sub's volume right there on the unit?

As for why I chose the CC-190, well, that was more the sales guy than me. To be honest, in the two moves and couple of TV shows I've watched since setting things up, the 190 is more than sufficient for my needs; the room this setup is in is 10' deep by perhaps 16' wide, so I'm not exactly filling a large space with sound.


JohnGZ28 : I'm going to check out that link, thanks! I think my issue in calibration is that I didn't really take time to listen to the speakers in their default settings, so I don't know if the auto-setup is an improvement or detriment; either way, they sound great!

Hey there neighbor man with the Sexy Rosewood Speakers... :) Wait ! thats me too... :D

Setup looks fantastic, although I have a big big problem, you need to post way more closeups of the S8's.. Other then that, I would personally try to spread them apart a bit more, maybe remove that plant on the left... I'm sure you r better half will probably have something to say about that. Maybe a touch more toe in.... As good as those Sigs image, you might not need any toe in at all... just a wall of sound coming from them... Looks like you have them plenty far from the wall, for less boomy bass.. good show...


Looks like you have some nice equipment.... I'll bet your S8's sound amazing... here's a link to my setup I posted over at Audioholics.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44008

I'd love to gtg with ya, your house or mine or both...

Thanks for the tips ummm except its not my better half that would have a problem with moving the plant... you see everything on the left side, plant,waterfall all of it is new and it was my idea and I set it up :eek: so like you said thats probably not going to happen, maybe moving them towards the rear a bit more might help, ultimately I really love the transparency of the sound, kenny G sounds awesome so I think I may just experiment some more and ultimately get a sub to bring it all together, my wife and I spent about 2 hours listening tonight and it was very relaxing, worth every penny spent and the rosewood Im really impressed with the rosewood finish on these guys just like the previous owner said I would be.

Thanks for the tips ummm except its not my better half that would have a problem with moving the plant... you see everything on the left side, plant,waterfall all of it is new and it was my idea and I set it up :eek: so like you said thats probably not going to happen, maybe moving them towards the rear a bit more might help, ultimately I really love the transparency of the sound, kenny G sounds awesome so I think I may just experiment some more and ultimately get a sub to bring it all together, my wife and I spent about 2 hours listening tonight and it was very relaxing, worth every penny spent and the rosewood Im really impressed with the rosewood finish on these guys just like the previous owner said I would be.
Although they do bass really well the addition of a good sub will reinforce
the bottom end like you would not believe especially movies.

I'm thinking of purchasing some monitor 11 towers. One of my concerns is how far from the wall should they be placed. I don't have a lot of room and I know they shouldn't be up against the wall.

I'm thinking of purchasing some monitor 11 towers. One of my concerns is how far from the wall should they be placed. I don't have a lot of room and I know they shouldn't be up against the wall.
IMO a foot away is the minimum no matter who's speaker to tame the boom
and try to keep the bass tighter.

Thanks for the tips ummm except its not my better half that would have a problem with moving the plant... you see everything on the left side, plant,waterfall all of it is new and it was my idea and I set it up :eek: so like you said thats probably not going to happen, maybe moving them towards the rear a bit more might help, ultimately I really love the transparency of the sound, kenny G sounds awesome so I think I may just experiment some more and ultimately get a sub to bring it all together, my wife and I spent about 2 hours listening tonight and it was very relaxing, worth every penny spent and the rosewood Im really impressed with the rosewood finish on these guys just like the previous owner said I would be.

Meant no offense, I have multiple plants in my house, I am single and the decor was chosen by me as well.. I love greenery, looking out my backyard as we speak I am surrounded by woods and a huge pond, my great escape !! Your S8's look fantastic in that room... and it looks like you got pretty much everything handled.....

Although they do bass really well the addition of a good sub will reinforce
the bottom end like you would not believe especially movies.

+1, My studio 100's sound good alone, but Im just a huge advocate of a good sub to bring the bass... :) Looks like he's got them 20" from the wall, so he's good there, I just like to have a little boundary around the speakers to help them to open up.

Obviously every room has its limitations...

Here's the results of the Denon's Audyssey auto-configure:

Speaker Sizes
Front: small
Center: small
Sub: yes
Surround: small


Good so far, at least it didn't set any large.


Distance (auto-detected / actual)
FL: 6.7ft / 5.5ft
FR: 6.7ft / 5.5ft
C: 6.4ft / 5.5ft
SW:8.5ft/ 7.5ft
SL: 4.1ft / 3.0ft
SR: 4.0ft / 3.0ft


I'd overwrite the auto-detected values with the actual distances.

Levels
FL: +0.5dB
FR: +0.5dB
C: -1.5dB
SW:-5.5dB
SL: +3.0dB
SR: +3.0dB


I'm surprised it's dropping the center relative to the fronts, as your fronts are more sensitive. If you can check these levels with an SPL meter, that would be great. Otherwise, listen to the test tones (either the receiver's or form Avia/DVE) to verify that they are all roughly the same level. Other than the center being lower (not higher) than the fronts, the numbers make sense.

Crossover (auto-set / Paradigm low-range rating)
Front: 40Hz / 54Hz
Center: 120Hz / 90Hz
Surround: 60Hz / 90Hz


This is where the auto routines break-down. The effect of room modes totally confuse them. Definately raise the x-over for your fronts, somewhere between 60-80Hz should work fine. Given the relatively small size of your center and surrounds, 100-120Hz is probably best.

Crossover (auto-set / Paradigm low-range rating)
It seems to have done decently with distance (consistently off by ~1ft), but is all over the map with crossover, so I suppose I'll sit down and give it the proper numbers. Also, I'm a bit puzzled by it cranking down the sub volume by some 5dB; wouldn't it be better to set that to 0 and just physically turn down the sub's volume right there on the unit?


In general, this performance is typical from what I've seen of an auto set-up routine; better than nothing, but far from perfect. As to why it's cranking down the sub, obviously it has no choice; the receiver is doing it's best to balance all outputs, and it has no control of the sub's gain knob! In theory, if it was having to attenuate/boost the sub by +/-10dB, I would recommend adjusting the sub's gain and re-running. However, 5-6dB is well within the range of the DACs.

As for why I chose the CC-190, well, that was more the sales guy than me. To be honest, in the two moves and couple of TV shows I've watched since setting things up, the 190 is more than sufficient for my needs; the room this setup is in is 10' deep by perhaps 16' wide, so I'm not exactly filling a large space with sound.


Fair, enough; as long as it's tonally matched well, which is the most critical attribute of a center.

To summarize, You should change the distances to what you actually measured, adjust the cross-overs, and verify the center channel level. Then just sit back and enjoy!

Hope this helps,

Lee

ADPS are designed to be used ONLY on the SIDE WALLS of a 5.1 or 7.1 systems. NEVER ON THE REAR WALLS.Hmmm. I've just installed a 5.1 system with Cinema 330s as front/centre and Cinema ADPs as the surround. Unfortunately they can not be placed on the side walls, only on the back. I'm not entirely happy with the rear sound. What Paradigm speaker would be good in their place, maybe a pair of Cinema 110s?

Hmmm. I've just installed a 5.1 system with Cinema 330s as front/centre and Cinema ADPs as the surround. Unfortunately they can not be placed on the side walls, only on the back. I'm not entirely happy with the rear sound. What Paradigm speaker would be good in their place, maybe a pair of Cinema 110s?

Paradigm's "All About Sound" document does recommend ADPs for the side and rear (pp. 13,14), but I'm not sure if having ADPs for the surround back without the side surrounds would be the best way. If you aren't happy with the sound and can't put the ADPs on the side, you might want to try some 90's or 110's.

Here's my setup:

FL and FR-Paradigm Studio 100's v.4
Center- Spendor C5
SL and SR- Spendor S 3/5 R's

Would I gain much by replacing the Spendors with Paradigm's Studio 20's and CC590?

Opinions?

:)

Here's my setup:

FL and FR-Paradigm Studio 100's v.4
Center- Spendor C5
SL and SR- Spendor S 3/5 R's

Would I gain much by replacing the Spendors with Paradigm's Studio 20's and CC590?

Opinions?

:)

Its what a lot of us that have that combo that did not want adp's and i for
one think the 20's work great in the rear as long as they are 4 ft are farther
from seating.

Dropped them off the spikes and moved them closer to the back wall, dont want to muddy the sound by moving them closer ( love the airy and pinpoint focus of instruments with these speakers) so it looks like I will look for a sub to do the rest, my theory is that although the speaker supports down to 34 HZ, my room does not. It opens up in many areas unlike my dedicated theater room which has two subs and gets to low frequency in the teens. All in all I am extremely pleased with the sound of the S8 a well recorded jazz cd(kenny G) is just eerie to listen to and we are not even talking hi res material just 44k standard cd.

Agreed, they seriously sound so nice.... I am really curious as to how much improvement the .v2's are over the .v1's... Although one thing is for sure, they don't have the sexy Rosewood veneer, which is something I just don't get. Every highend speaker company is offering something as sweet as Rosewood, and Paradigm drops it. Don't get me wrong I think Cherry, Birdseye Maple and Piano Black look fantastic, but there is something really unique about that exotic flavor of rosewood.

To answer the question about the version 1 and ver 2, I have heard them both and what I fell in love with was the version 1 first and I have silently wanted these for a very long time, when the version 2 were coming out a dealer offered me the showroom demos(ver 1) which are the ones I listened and made me a big fan of the S8, at the time finances would not allow me to take advantage of the situation and someone came quickly and snatched them up. When I saw the rosewoods up for sale I felt that this was my second chance, at one point it look like it wasnt going to happen however the seller and I worked it out so here they are, the finish is smooth,deep and shiny, the speaker almost begs to be waxed, is there such a thing for speakers?:confused:. my dealer says that he can hear the difference between the ver1 and ver 2 and while I dont doubt him since he listens to them everyday, without hearing them side by side I cant say I can. Guitar plucks and saxaphones sound extraordinarily real and focused. As for the reason they dont sell them anymore in rosewood, I spoke to paradigm and was told that rosewood is a hard finish to match consinstantly between speaker manufacturing runs, mine look great and have you ever seen two trees that look exactly alike anyway?

Very true.... I bought my S4's from a guy on Audiogon, they came new in box, and I bought my center channel from a guy on the forums here, and the colors don't match identically, and the center has a clear laquer finish as well, but I don't mind, the look good enough to me, and they sound even better. I could have bought the matching C5 from the same guy as my S4's, but it was a little more then I wanted to spend, and it was way to large for that small room.... There is definitely a color variation between the two, but the sound is still spectacular.

Got a quick question that I have been wondering about for awhile now. Why do the studio 40's have a weaker freq response than the studio 20? Wouldn't the extra woofer give it a better one?

Got a quick question that I have been wondering about for awhile now. Why do the studio 40's have a weaker freq response than the studio 20? Wouldn't the extra woofer give it a better one?

I would suspect cabinet volume would have something to do with it.

So it actually is true? I was almost have expecting t hear it was a typo on their site. On my paradigm dealer's site he has the 40s listed as having much more bass than the 20s..guess not then hey?

As well as the crossover.... The 40's will have a bit better midrange clarity, due to the dedicated midrange driver. Either speaker is a fine choice, and I wouldn't worry about how low either speaker goes if your running a sub, you will be crossing over higher anyways.

The 60 is the 40 in a larger cabinet note it goes 16 hz lower but as Warp pointed out
most cross over before then.

The 40's will have a bit better midrange clarity, due to the dedicated midrange driver.

No, they do not. The "midrange" driver on the 40 and 60 runs full-range, just like it does on the 20. The 2nd woofer rolls off in the lower midrange to provide additional bass output without mucking up the midrange. The 40 and 60 are not 3-way speakers.

As far as the specs go, Paradigm has had numerous typos over the years, so I wouldn't put much stock in it.

To answer the question about the version 1 and ver 2, I have heard them both and what I fell in love with was the version 1 first and I have silently wanted these for a very long time, when the version 2 were coming out a dealer offered me the showroom demos(ver 1) which are the ones I listened and made me a big fan of the S8, at the time finances would not allow me to take advantage of the situation and someone came quickly and snatched them up. When I saw the rosewoods up for sale I felt that this was my second chance, at one point it look like it wasnt going to happen however the seller and I worked it out so here they are, the finish is smooth,deep and shiny, the speaker almost begs to be waxed, is there such a thing for speakers?:confused:. my dealer says that he can hear the difference between the ver1 and ver 2 and while I dont doubt him since he listens to them everyday, without hearing them side by side I cant say I can. Guitar plucks and saxaphones sound extraordinarily real and focused. As for the reason they dont sell them anymore in rosewood, I spoke to paradigm and was told that rosewood is a hard finish to match consinstantly between speaker manufacturing runs, mine look great and have you ever seen two trees that look exactly alike anyway?

The Sig v2's have an improved tweeter. Whether that matters to you or not is something only your ears can tell you. And it's based on lot on what you generally listen to.

Personally, I preferred the sound of the v2's - the high-end seems clearer and cleaner to me than the v1's. Not like it's a huge difference, but things like classical music really bought out the (to me) better high-end of the v2's.

For my listening tastes, the tweeter has made a big difference. I also spent a lot of time with the B&W line, and the "D" tweeter was noticable better than the "S" tweeter. And the differences in the high-end were very similar to me as with the v2 and v1 Sig's (and Studio v4's).

Again though, it depends on your ears and what profile of sound you generally listen to.

(The studio v4's got the tweeter from the sig v1's. If you really like the v1's, you might not hear that much of a difference with the Studio v4's, and you can get a lot more for your money in the Studio line. Just a thought.)

As well as the crossover.... The 40's will have a bit better midrange clarity, due to the dedicated midrange driver. Either speaker is a fine choice, and I wouldn't worry about how low either speaker goes if your running a sub, you will be crossing over higher anyways.

Slight correction. The 40's are a 2.5 way design, which by definition uses a mid/woof and a woof, not a dedicated mid and woof. The only Paradigm speakers that use dedicated mids are the 100's, S6, S8 and of course any center speaker with a 4" mid driver.

Slight correction. The 40's are a 2.5 way design, which by definition uses a mid/woof and a woof, not a dedicated mid and woof. The only Paradigm speakers that use dedicated mids are the 100's, S6, S8 and of course any center speaker with a 4" mid driver.

I stand corrected, thanks for both of you guys for pointing that out...

All I know is I like the way they sound... :)

(The studio v4's got the tweeter from the sig v1's. If you really like the v1's, you might not hear that much of a difference with the Studio v4's, and you can get a lot more for your money in the Studio line. Just a thought.)

I think the Studio V4's have the same tweeter dome as the Signature V1's, but does not use the same neodymium magnet structure that the Sig V1's had.

I think the Studio V4's have the same tweeter dome as the Signature V1's, but does not use the same neodymium magnet structure that the Sig V1's had.

CORRECT

Slight correction. The 40's are a 2.5 way design, which by definition uses a mid/woof and a woof, not a dedicated mid and woof. The only Paradigm speakers that use dedicated mids are the 100's, S6, S8 and of course any center speaker with a 4" mid driver.

I also did not for all this time realize that the Studio 60's were 2 1/12 way reflex loaded speaker... I though they were a 3 way... Hmmm

I really need to get a listen to the .v2 S6's and S8's one of these days...

What is the point of having an extra woofer to provide more bass if the frequency responce for the speaker is weaker than their cheaper model...I still don't get it lol

edit: so you do think it is a typo? I could go and listen but the shop is like an hour and a half away...

edit 2: the studio 40's msrp is still $1.5k right? Price didn't go up again did it?

I stand corrected, thanks for both of you guys for pointing that out...

All I know is I like the way they sound... :)

Just don't let it happen again, and we're cool. :p

What is the point of having an extra woofer to provide more bass if the frequency responce for the speaker is weaker than their cheaper model...I still don't get it lol


The extra woofer in a 2.5 way design is there for baffle step compensation. In a regular front firing speaker, because bass is nondirectional below a certain frequency (depending on both driver size and the dimensions of the front of the cabinet, i.e. the baffle) you'll lose about half the sound energy on the low-end behind the speaker. This leaves the tweeter sounding bright, or conversely, the bass sounding lean. In a 2 way speaker you usually pad down the tweeter to lower its level so you get a flat overall response. A 2.5 instead adds an extra woofer that augments the low frequencies to get the same result. This design can increase power handling. You arguably can reduce mid-bass distortion this way, too.

By the way Warp, I've also got the S4 v.1s. Had 'em for about 1.5 years. Ain't they sweet?!

Cheers,

Andrew

Andrew, thanks for the design implementation lesson... I'm still learning more and more about speaker design, as well as running a couple of business's and raising a child myself, oh and ahh gettin laid... I just don't have enough time to dedicate to furthering my speaker education these days... :)

I agree, they sound downright fantastic.... sweet is the perfect word... :)
Not sure how much better the .v2's could be...

What finish did you go with..? Pic's..?

I got the cherry, but thought the finish was a little too matte for my tastes so I went at them with a polishing slurry, so now they're much more of a high gloss. Guess I must have done it right because my girlfriend digs them (or, at least she's not saying, "I think these will look great in the guest room").

No pics yet. I'm actually in the process of moving, so my rack is half apart even though the equipment is mostly still in it. And, naturally, the place is a friggin' wreck with boxes etc. I'll throw up some pics once I get settled. By that time, the new Kuro plasma will be here...:D

As for the v.2's, I agree -- I'm sure they're better, but by how much? Going from the Studio 40 v.3s that I had for a couple of years to the Sigs was a pretty noticeable difference, but I can't see moving up the Sig line would give the same degree of improvement. Still, I'd love to hear them.

Cheers,

A.

I have a question. I got some titans and the speaker connections where I guess the xover is/multiboard thing is broke. Can I get a new one and about how much should they cause. The speaker does not play unless I physical touch the conection on the speaker and tweeter itself.

I have a question. I got some titans and the speaker connections where I guess the xover is/multiboard thing is broke. Can I get a new one and about how much should they cause. The speaker does not play unless I physical touch the conection on the speaker and tweeter itself.

Dealer item if your talking about the whole binding post plate that also
holds the crossover.

Dealer item if your talking about the whole binding post plate that also
holds the crossover.

so how much it should run me.

so how much it should run me.

Sorry i don't have a clue never replaced one just some cabinets and grills
and that was over 2 years ago so prices have gone up i am sure but a dealer
should be able to quote a price.

i'm planning a paradigm purchase in the next month or so and originally planned on a set consisting of monitor 11's, adp390's, cc390, and an svs pb13 ultra. I'll have to order blindly due to no dealers close to me that carry the speakers but talked to one today and he thought there wouldn't be need for something as big as the 11's, and suggested that the 7's would be sufficiant. The system will be used for 70% movies/sat, 20% music, and 10% gaming.

Thanks

i'm planning a paradigm purchase in the next month or so....

What are the room dimensions? How far away will the listening position be? How loud do you like to listen?

As for the v.2's, I agree -- I'm sure they're better, but by how much? Going from the Studio 40 v.3s that I had for a couple of years to the Sigs was a pretty noticeable difference, but I can't see moving up the Sig line would give the same degree of improvement. Still, I'd love to hear them.

I haven't auditioned either the v.1 or v.2 Sig, but I did take notice when I saw the Soundstage data, which makes the v.2 tweeter look better:

S1 v.2:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/paradigm_signature_s1_v2/frequency_on1530.gif
Top curve: on-axis response
Middle curve: 15 degrees off-axis response
Bottom curve: 30 degrees off-axis response

S2 v.1:
http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/paradigm_signature_s2/frequency_on1530.gif
Top curve: on-axis response
Middle curve: 15 degrees off-axis response
Bottom curve: 30 degrees off-axis response

i'm planning a paradigm purchase in the next month or so and originally planned on a set consisting of monitor 11's, adp390's, cc390, and an svs pb13 ultra. I'll have to order blindly due to no dealers close to me that carry the speakers but talked to one today and he thought there wouldn't be need for something as big as the 11's, and suggested that the 7's would be sufficiant. The system will be used for 70% movies/sat, 20% music, and 10% gaming.

Thanks

Without knowing the size of the room your setup is going in, I'd say if you are going to stick with the CC390 as your center, get the 11's.

If the dealer you talked to made the recommendation of the 7's because of some knowledge of your room size that you didn't post, then I would match the CC290 with 7's.

Even though you are ordering without having the chance to hear them first, I'm confident you won't be disappointed. What will you be using to drive the speakers?

I haven't auditioned either the v.1 or v.2 Sig, but I did take notice when I saw the Soundstage data, which makes the v.2 tweeter look better:

S1 v.2:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/paradigm_signature_s1_v2/frequency_on1530.gif
Top curve: on-axis response
Middle curve: 15 degrees off-axis response
Bottom curve: 30 degrees off-axis response

S2 v.1:
http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/paradigm_signature_s2/frequency_on1530.gif
Top curve: on-axis response
Middle curve: 15 degrees off-axis response
Bottom curve: 30 degrees off-axis response

Hey, I agree it sounds better, but graphs are really meaningless. You need to go and listen to see what your ears like.

Some people like old-school vynyl sound, but the graph looks horrible when compared to a CD.

Why are the graphs comparing an S1 against an S2 and a year difference on the S2
also note one was taken at 85db and the other at 91db seems like there would be a
difference.

Why are the graphs comparing an S1 against an S2 and a year difference on the S2
also note one was taken at 85db and the other at 91db seems like there would be a
difference.

The graphs are S1 vs S2 because that's what they tested. Thanks for pointing out the difference in levels, I hadn't noticed that. Not sure how much difference it would make to tweeter FR.

You know what, oztech, I went back to the original source, and there is another difference as well: the S1 v.2 was measured without the grille, whereas the S2 v.1 was measure will the grille. So I'll retract my original post on this subject; because of this measurement difference, we can't (from the measurements) conclude that much about the comparative FR of the two different tweeters.

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/paradigm_signature_s1_v2/
http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/paradigm_signature_s2/

I haven't auditioned either the v.1 or v.2 Sig, but I did take notice when I saw the Soundstage data, which makes the v.2 tweeter look better:

S1 v.2:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/paradigm_signature_s1_v2/frequency_on1530.gif
Top curve: on-axis response
Middle curve: 15 degrees off-axis response
Bottom curve: 30 degrees off-axis response

S2 v.1:
http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/paradigm_signature_s2/frequency_on1530.gif
Top curve: on-axis response
Middle curve: 15 degrees off-axis response
Bottom curve: 30 degrees off-axis response

True, the anechoic response of the v.2 Sig 1 looks a little better than the v.1 Sig 2. However, keep in mind these are very different speaker designs. The S-1 is much smaller than the S-2, has a different mid-bass driver, different baffle, is sealed instead of ported, and so it's crossover will be different, too. Also, the S-1 is meant as a small room speaker, unlike the S-2, which is meant for more typical rooms. All these things contribute to the target response curves the designer wants.


Like AMF says, you need to listen to them. I think Paradigm, being from the Floyd Toole school, goes for a design that takes the room into account (probably some kind of "average" room). So you really need to hear both in a real room. Again, I'm not saying that the v.2 Sig is not an improvement over the v.1. I am saying I seriously doubt it's close to the same improvement in going from the Studios to the Sigs.

Cheers,

Andrew

a1sy:

Which Calabrine cables did you end up going with? Were they bi-wired or ? I looked at the website and they look very well made. I just wonder how they mate with the Studio 100s and CC690. Thanks!!

All the graphs in the world don't help a speaker in a totally different room. My room is not an anachoic chamber, nor will it ever be.... The Sigs are great speakers, but they will perform differently when you get them home to your room, as well as like AbMagFab stated, different material will greatly effect the performance for better or worse.

When you get to this level of speaker, the upgrades from one model to the next IMO will only be slight. They are using the same cabinet, the rest of the changes couldn't add up to be monumental as far as I'm concerned. I give Paradigm credt this go around with upgrading the tweeters and the mid drivers, but an extreme leap for them was to bridge the gap between the S8 and the S4 with the addition to the line of the S6. It looks to be a great middle ground, and employs another 3 way speaker to the lineup.

syswei, What are you running for speakers right now. Are you looking to buy some Sigs?

syswei, What are you running for speakers right now. Are you looking to buy some Sigs?

Right now I have only a 2.1 system, in a family room, and I don't even listen to it much. Paradigm Ref Active/40s and Servo-15. I will be building a dedicated room eventually, and have been on these boards with that in mind. I haven't auditioned anything yet, but at this point I think some of the Paradigm in-wall choices are strong possibilities for my rears/sides, regardless of what fronts I go with, because of the high-SPL capabilites of some of the designs, and (based on measurements of freestanding speakers) better-than average HF dispersion. The fronts could end up Sigs, but some other possibilites are Revel Studio2/Voice2, flush-mounted pro active monitors such as Dynaudio M2 or AIR25, or Monitor Audio PL300.

All the graphs in the world don't help a speaker in a totally different room. My room is not an anachoic chamber, nor will it ever be.... The Sigs are great speakers, but they will perform differently when you get them home to your room, as well as like AbMagFab stated, different material will greatly effect the performance for better or worse.

Actually one of the reasons I like graphs is that they abstract from the differing rooms that different dealers have. If I'm comparing one Soundstage set of measurements to another (or Stereophile to Stereophile), there is a good degree of comparability (except for differences like measuring with/without the grille). Whereas if I hear the S8 at one dealer, and Revel at another dealer, MA in a third dealer, and then Dynaudio in a pro, acoustically treated studio, how well will I be able to tell what the room is doing vs what the speaker is doing? Of course, I will be doing auditions when I am further along, but I see auditions as having their limitations...just different limitations from magazine measurements.

True, the anechoic response of the v.2 Sig 1 looks a little better than the v.1 Sig 2. However, keep in mind these are very different speaker designs. The S-1 is much smaller than the S-2, has a different mid-bass driver, different baffle, is sealed instead of ported, and so it's crossover will be different, too. Also, the S-1 is meant as a small room speaker, unlike the S-2, which is meant for more typical rooms. All these things contribute to the target response curves the designer wants.

Like AMF says, you need to listen to them. I think Paradigm, being from the Floyd Toole school, goes for a design that takes the room into account (probably some kind of "average" room). So you really need to hear both in a real room. Again, I'm not saying that the v.2 Sig is not an improvement over the v.1. I am saying I seriously doubt it's close to the same improvement in going from the Studios to the Sigs.

Interesting and true, about the "average room" stuff. Just last night I read a new article about Anthem's new "room correction" on the D2 @ Secrets of Home Theater... I thought it was very interesting :

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/processor-and-receiver-reviews/ssps/arc-anthem-room-correction.html

Cheers.

Interesting and true, about the "average room" stuff. Just last night I read a new article about Anthem's new "room correction" on the D2 @ Secrets of Home Theater... I thought it was very interesting :

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/processor-and-receiver-reviews/ssps/arc-anthem-room-correction.html

Cheers.

I've been in the D2 thread for a while. The ARC-1 is neat, but still very buggy (and frankly very similar to Audyssey Pro, except you can do it yourself). And while RoomEQ systems are nice, you get a lot more benefit from acoustic treatments. Once you do that, just some minimal RoomEQ is needed, like the OOB Audyssey stuff (not the Pro), especially with great speakers like the Sigs.

I was skeptical, but room/acoustic treatments are way more effective (in any room of any shape) than any electronic RoomEQ could ever be.

I've been in the D2 thread for a while. The ARC-1 is neat, but still very buggy (and frankly very similar to Audyssey Pro, except you can do it yourself). And while RoomEQ systems are nice, you get a lot more benefit from acoustic treatments. Once you do that, just some minimal RoomEQ is needed, like the OOB Audyssey stuff (not the Pro), especially with great speakers like the Sigs.

I was skeptical, but room/acoustic treatments are way more effective (in any room of any shape) than any electronic RoomEQ could ever be.

I should visit the D2 thread, and read up. The article also emphasized a properly treated room is the first / best thing to do... which I am just beginning to realize and read up on as well. I thought the whole topic was very interesting and will probably be spending much more time in those related treads as well.

Cheers!

I should visit the D2 thread, and read up. The article also emphasized a properly treated room is the first / best thing to do... which I am just beginning to realize and read up on as well. I thought the whole topic was very interesting and will probably be spending much more time in those related treads as well.

Cheers!

For acoustic treatments, including DIY, head on over to audioholics.com. Much better information and much more helpful over there (for some reason the folks in this acoustic area here aren't helpful at all, which is uncharactistic of these forums overall).

For acoustic treatments, including DIY, head on over to audioholics.com. Much better information and much more helpful over there (for some reason the folks in this acoustic area here aren't helpful at all, which is uncharactistic of these forums overall).

Its weird, I have noticed that on only a small select sections on this forum, but true...

Maybe a thread devoted only to room treatments would be a good thing.

I'm working on upgrading my current 5.1 system to a 7.1 (potentially 7.2), and would really appreciate some advice. I have all Paradigms and would like to keep it that way (except potentially the sub)

My current setup is all Paradigm:


Fronts: Titan v2
Center: CC-170 v2
Surrounds: ADP-170 v2
Sub: PDR-12


Receiver: Pioneer VSX-45TX (100 X 7). This is getting long in the tooth and will be upgraded...

My goal is to utilize the existing Paradigms with additional Paradigms in a new dedicated theater (21 x 17). I'm thinking of new fronts (Monitor 7 or 9's), move the titans to the rear surrounds, uses the ADP-170's for side surrounds, and add an additional sub.

My concern/questions:

Are the monitors (7 or 9) a good match?
Will the monitors overpower the center (cc-170)
What are a good match for the PDR-12's? DSP-3100/3200? Maybe a non-Paradigm sub?


Any other suggestions?

Thanks very much!!

I'm working on upgrading my current 5.1 system to a 7.1 (potentially 7.2).

My concern/questions:

Are the monitors (7 or 9) a good match?
Will the monitors overpower the center (cc-170)
What are a good match for the PDR-12's? DSP-3100/3200? Maybe a non-Paradigm sub?


Any other suggestions?

Thanks very much!!

I think you should definitely upgrade all three front speakers together for timbre matching. I'd go with a CC-290, even if you have to drop to the titans to keep your budget. With 2 subs you certainly don't need floorstanders!

I think you should definitely upgrade all three front speakers together for timbre matching. I'd go with a CC-290, even if you have to drop to the titans to keep your budget. With 2 subs you certainly don't need floorstanders!

Thanks for the quick reply.

So I'm clear, you are recommending buying another pair of Titans? I already have a pair and was doing to use them for rear surrounds.

Next on the CC-290, if I keep with Titans for front and rear, why wouldn't I keep my CC-170? They are timbre matched to the Titans and I thought are well balanced power-wise. Would the 290's over power the Titans?

Thanks, again

Just curious what type of interconnects and speaker cables that are being used for both the Paradigm Studios and Signatures. Your thoughts and experiences?

Just curious what type of interconnects and speaker cables that are being used for both the Paradigm Studios and Signatures. Your thoughts and experiences?

And good, inexpensive, 14 or 12AWG speaker wire. Monoprice is a good place to go.

And good, inexpensive, 14 or 12AWG speaker wire. Monoprice is a good place to go.

So is BlueJeansCable....

So is BlueJeansCable....
+2

So is BlueJeansCable....

Last I checked, they were a lot more expensive than Monoprice. BJ has good cables, but they seem significantly overpriced, IMO (I was checking RCA cables at the time). Better pricing than Monster, of course, and good qualty, but still too expensive for what you get.

Blue Jeans use Canare which is a true 75ohm cable with connection if thats important
to you.

Thanks for the quick reply.

So I'm clear, you are recommending buying another pair of Titans? I already have a pair and was doing to use them for rear surrounds.

Next on the CC-290, if I keep with Titans for front and rear, why wouldn't I keep my CC-170? They are timbre matched to the Titans and I thought are well balanced power-wise. Would the 290's over power the Titans?

Thanks, again

You have Titan v2s. They v5s have much different drivers. You still need a v5 center to match whether you pick Monitor 7s or 9s or Titans.

Re: Speaker cables. I've looked at Monoprice, Bluejean, etc. Seems like when I read the reviews for the Paradigm Signatures or Studios, the reviewers are using Straightwire, Transparent, etc. Is there any advantage using those brand names over the lesser known like Bluejean?

Re: Speaker cables. I've looked at Monoprice, Bluejean, etc. Seems like when I read the reviews for the Paradigm Signatures or Studios, the reviewers are using Straightwire, Transparent, etc. Is there any advantage using those brand names over the lesser known like Bluejean?

Most definitely. The sellers make much more profit on the higher priced cables.

Re: Speaker cables. I've looked at Monoprice, Bluejean, etc. Seems like when I read the reviews for the Paradigm Signatures or Studios, the reviewers are using Straightwire, Transparent, etc. Is there any advantage using those brand names over the lesser known like Bluejean?

Bragging rights and aesthetics but nothing audible.

Well, after 16 hours, 1000+ miles, and 1000 bucks later (believe it!), a pair of Paradigm Signature Reference S8's have a new place to call home....and let me tell you, they are already singing despite my modest (temporary) rig. They sound absolutely incredible, and they had some big shoes to fill with the SDA 2.3TL's being replaced (moved). I guess the C5 is next on the list, followed by a better amp and maybe even a nice pre-amp soon. Here is a link to some pics.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33302&d=1211066767
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33303&d=1211066767
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33304&d=1211066767

Well, after 16 hours, 1000+ miles, and 1000 bucks later (believe it!), a pair of Paradigm Signature Reference S8's have a new place to call home....and let me tell you, they are already singing despite my modest (temporary) rig. They sound absolutely incredible, and they had some big shoes to fill with the SDA 2.3TL's being replaced (moved). I guess the C5 is next on the list, followed by a better amp and maybe even a nice pre-amp soon. Here is a link to some pics.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33302&d=1211066767
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33303&d=1211066767
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33304&d=1211066767
Congrats and they are beautiful I bet they sound great.

Well, after 16 hours, 1000+ miles, and 1000 bucks later (believe it!), a pair of Paradigm Signature Reference S8's have a new place to call home....and let me tell you, they are already singing despite my modest (temporary) rig. They sound absolutely incredible, and they had some big shoes to fill with the SDA 2.3TL's being replaced (moved). I guess the C5 is next on the list, followed by a better amp and maybe even a nice pre-amp soon. Here is a link to some pics.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33302&d=1211066767
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33303&d=1211066767
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33304&d=1211066767

That looks like MIT T2 BiWire cable your using.
You might look at replacing those with the MIT Shotgun S1 or Magnum M3 model.

Well, after 16 hours, 1000+ miles, and 1000
bucks later (believe it!), a pair of Paradigm Signature Reference S8's have a new place to call home....and let me tell you, they are already singing despite my modest (temporary) rig. They sound absolutely incredible, and they had some big shoes to fill with the SDA 2.3TL's being replaced (moved). I guess the C5 is next on the list, followed by a better amp and maybe even a nice pre-amp soon. Here is a link to some pics.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33302&d=1211066767
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33303&d=1211066767
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33304&d=1211066767


Nice... spectacular looking....
Another proud and serious owner of some Sigs...

I had a center channel really close to what you have there, get a nice C3 to match.... Can you find a way to squeeze a C3 down in the console...?

I have a feeling after a deal goes through for me, my great room will be in for some upgrading from my Studio 100's to a full set of Sig S8's and C5 out there..

They are so sleek looking...

Congrats on the new Addition... sexy...

What are the room dimensions? How far away will the listening position be? How loud do you like to listen?


the room is a long rectangle connected to the kitchen. the main listening area (what I curtined off) is 17'5 X 11'3 x 8'. my main listening/viewing spot is about 8-9' away, and loud is good :D.

What will you be using to drive the speakers?

....was planning on the yamaha 3800, but now thinking about the onkyo 875. either way I think i'll be happy.

That looks like MIT T2 BiWire cable your using.
You might look at replacing those with the MIT Shotgun S1 or Magnum M3 model.

You're kidding, right? $10+ per foot of speaker cable?

First, it looks like all of a 4-foot run. Second, any 14 or 12 AWG speaker cable is more than adequate for any sort of run. Third, the bi-wire/passive bi-amp discussion is pretty much dead, and it's pretty much pointless to do it (go see the dedicated thread for this).

Let's not recommend people waste their money on overpriced speaker cable here.

AbMag:

Since I'm checking out speaker cable; are you saying that the Paradigms, whether Studio or Signature; don't benefit from bi-wiring? I was always under the impression that bi-wiring was preferable to regular wiring and using the jumper cables supplied by Paradigm. Let me know your thoughts.

AbMag:

Since I'm checking out speaker cable; are you saying that the Paradigms, whether Studio or Signature; don't benefit from bi-wiring? I was always under the impression that bi-wiring was preferable to regular wiring and using the jumper cables supplied by Paradigm. Let me know your thoughts.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Bi-wiring makes no difference at all. Passive bi-amping (where you run each set of speaker terminals to a separate amp) will only make a difference if you have an underpowered amp with dedicated transformers per channel (which is extremely unlikely) - and even then it's questionable. (The latter, passive bi-amping, took some convincing for me, as it seemed counter-intuitive, but I'm convinced now that in only a small sliver of cases does it make any difference.)

All bi-wiring does (meaning two wires to the same amp) is effectively double the gauge of your wire. Beyond 12 AWG, and any reasonable run (e.g. less than 50 feet or so), you gain no benefit.

I'm underqualified to fully explain, but a single amp (let's assume it's a dedicated transformer per channel) can only put out so much power. Splitting the wire at the amp to send to each crossover individually versus sending it all to the entire speaker apparently makes no difference under any circumstances. This is exactly what the crossovers were designed for, and the jumpers for the terminals take away any remaining fringe issues. And there's really nothing you can do if your amp is underpowered.

If you read the bi-wire and bi-amp threads, you'll get a really good understanding of everything involved from people way smarter than me.

(And there's the group of people who say "it sounds better to me when I do controlled tests" - but this is a pretty cut-and-dry case of it really making zero difference.)

Well, after 16 hours, 1000+ miles, and 1000 bucks later (believe it!), a pair of Paradigm Signature Reference S8's have a new place to call home....and let me tell you, they are already singing despite my modest (temporary) rig. They sound absolutely incredible, and they had some big shoes to fill with the SDA 2.3TL's being replaced (moved). I guess the C5 is next on the list, followed by a better amp and maybe even a nice pre-amp soon. Here is a link to some pics.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33302&d=1211066767
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33303&d=1211066767
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33304&d=1211066767

Congrats!

Now all you have to do is get rid of the polkaudio in your link and you'll be fully initiated in the club. :D

Congrats!

Now all you have to do is get rid of the polkaudio in your link and you'll be fully initiated in the club. :D

I hear ya...but honestly, you might benefit from reading the Polk Classifieds. The S8's I just bought for a thousand bucks were originally posted on the Polk forum and were located in Lexington Park, MD...anywhere close to you? Would have been a great snag for you, and saved me a long trip (not that I'm complaining, mind you ;)

I hear ya...but honestly, you might benefit from reading the Polk Classifieds. The S8's I just bought for a thousand bucks were originally posted on the Polk forum and were located in Lexington Park, MD...anywhere close to you? Would have been a great snag for you, and saved me a long trip (not that I'm complaining, mind you ;)

So why were they selling them for ~1/10th their list price? Heck, it's about 2 hours from me, but I would have bought them just to resell them! What finish were they?

I hear ya...but honestly, you might benefit from reading the Polk Classifieds. The S8's I just bought for a thousand bucks were originally posted on the Polk forum and were located in Lexington Park, MD...anywhere close to you? Would have been a great snag for you, and saved me a long trip (not that I'm complaining, mind you ;)

For $1K I suspect they are "hot".

For $1K I suspect they are "hot".

Deal of the century if not.

hello all,

i currently have a ref. studio cc center. but i want to up grade to a ref. studio cc-690. will this make a major difference? my main speakers are ref. studio 100 v2.

Anyone have the specs for the older v.1 or v.2 of the LCR-350 Monitor series speakers? I have one, and am curious if I'm OK cutting the sub frequency off at 80hz with my Marantz SR-8002.

I can find nothing on Google anymore.

I can only find specs for the CC-350, which, if memory serves, cut the frequency off 10hz lower than the LCR-350 did.

The CC-350 goes down to 70hz, but if the LCR-350 goes down to 80hz, then I feel like I'm probably losing something in the lower range before it cuts off to the sub, right?

I don't feel as impressed with the sound from the LCR or my mains if I set the cut-off to 100hz.
__________________

I hear ya...but honestly, you might benefit from reading the Polk Classifieds. The S8's I just bought for a thousand bucks were originally posted on the Polk forum and were located in Lexington Park, MD...anywhere close to you? Would have been a great snag for you, and saved me a long trip (not that I'm complaining, mind you ;)

:D

They would have cost me a lot more than $1,000. Try 50% of all I have if I walked in the door with another set of speakers. :D

:D

They would have cost me a lot more than $1,000. Try 50% of all I have if I walked in the door with another set of speakers. :D

Now THAT'S funny! :D

For $1K I suspect they are "hot".

Not 'hot'. Here's his original 'for sale' thread.
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67198
Came from a great guy who just needed to unload them as he already had them replaced with some other equipment. He is an Airforce jet mechanic and his hearing became too sensitive for the high frequency that the tweeters produce, so he ended up purchasing a pair of Martin Logans to replace them. He had some nice gear...all McIntosh, Britannia sub, room treatments...the whole nine yards. He originally listed them for 2k, and then dropped the price soon after no one was biting. He didn't post pics, so most assumed it was a scam. I was the first to jump on them and he held them for a week until I could make the long trip. They are immaculate. Not a scratch on them...grills are perfect. No boxes, but came with a manual and some literature as well.

So why were they selling them for ~1/10th their list price? Heck, it's about 2 hours from me, but I would have bought them just to resell them! What finish were they?

Cherry finish. My original intentions were to resell them when I first saw the post...but then I started researching them. When I finally saw them and auditioned them, I was hooked. They will be staying indefinately.

:D

They would have cost me a lot more than $1,000. Try 50% of all I have if I walked in the door with another set of speakers. :D

That is indeed funny. It took a bit of convincing for the wife to even consider, but when they got home, she was as hooked as I was. The sound and looks are just amazing. Probably the last pair of main speakers I'll ever own.

Thats an amazing deal....

I would have snatched that up quick as well.... they are selling for $3K on audiogon

Thats an amazing deal....

I would have snatched that up quick as well.... they are selling for $3K on audiogon

$3K for a pair S8 v2s ?!?!

For $1K I suspect they are "hot".

They "fell off the back of an F-18".

$3K for a pair S8 v2s ?!?!

No I have seen .v1's going for that price, or even a bit higher...

I don't think the Sigs he bought are .v2.. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

No I have seen .v1's going for that price, or even a bit higher...

I don't think the Sigs he bought are .v2.. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

Oops, you are right! Tweeters are v1...my mistake!

Oops, you are right! Tweeters are v1...my mistake!

Correct...version 1's.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Bi-wiring makes no difference at all. Passive bi-amping (where you run each set of speaker terminals to a separate amp) will only make a difference if you have an underpowered amp with dedicated transformers per channel (which is extremely unlikely) - and even then it's questionable. (The latter, passive bi-amping, took some convincing for me, as it seemed counter-intuitive, but I'm convinced now that in only a small sliver of cases does it make any difference.)

All bi-wiring does (meaning two wires to the same amp) is effectively double the gauge of your wire. Beyond 12 AWG, and any reasonable run (e.g. less than 50 feet or so), you gain no benefit.

I'm underqualified to fully explain, but a single amp (let's assume it's a dedicated transformer per channel) can only put out so much power. Splitting the wire at the amp to send to each crossover individually versus sending it all to the entire speaker apparently makes no difference under any circumstances. This is exactly what the crossovers were designed for, and the jumpers for the terminals take away any remaining fringe issues. And there's really nothing you can do if your amp is underpowered.

If you read the bi-wire and bi-amp threads, you'll get a really good understanding of everything involved from people way smarter than me.

(And there's the group of people who say "it sounds better to me when I do controlled tests" - but this is a pretty cut-and-dry case of it really making zero difference.)

AbMag:

Thank you for detailed information. I had been comparing bi-wire cables and always thought/understood that bi-wiring was superior to regular wiring, but never saw this demonstrated in any tests, only the gospel from dealers and other hi-end folk who swear to bi-wiring and bi-amping. Thanks for your advice and probably saving me a few bucks along the way

AbMag:

Thank you for detailed information. I had been comparing bi-wire cables and always thought/understood that bi-wiring was superior to regular wiring, but never saw this demonstrated in any tests, only the gospel from dealers and other hi-end folk who swear to bi-wiring and bi-amping. Thanks for your advice and probably saving me a few bucks along the way

Yeah, it seems the only people who really won't back down are the people who make money off it - some custom installers, and the dealers. Also, of course, the people who spent the money to do it and don't want to admit it was a waste of money.

I'm going to listen to some Paradigm's in the next day or two (either the Studio or Signature series), but have sort of a basic question that i've not thought much about in my many years of doing this.

If I'm using the speakers in exclusively for home theater, and will have ample subwoofer capacity (currently one JL Audio 113 Fathom and a Definitive SuperCube 1, though that will be replaced by a second JL or an SVS 13 Ultra), do I really need towers? I'll likely be crossing everything at 70 or 80, so I'm not really concerned about the mains producing much low frequency.

The size of my room is about 24 by 16 by 10. Driving everything with an Onkyo 905 connected to a Cinenova Grande 7 external amp.

Would I be losing much in terms of volume/headroom with something like the S4 or the Studio 40, vs the S6/S8 or the Studio 60/100? My initial thoughts are I would not, but some feedback would help.

Also, how different are the Studio and and Signature lines? I understand the tweeter technology is different on the Signature, with perhaps a brighter sound (which wouldn't work well in my environment), a slightly different midrange, and that the Signature fit and finish is better. Are there major sonic differences beyond the two the those who have heard both can comment on?

Thanks

I'm going to listen to some Paradigm's in the next day or two (either the Studio or Signature series), but have sort of a basic question that i've not thought much about in my many years of doing this.

If I'm using the speakers in exclusively for home theater, and will have ample subwoofer capacity (currently one JL Audio 113 Fathom and a Definitive SuperCube 1, though that will be replaced by a second JL or an SVS 13 Ultra), do I really need towers? I'll likely be crossing everything at 70 or 80, so I'm not really concerned about the mains producing much low frequency.

The size of my room is about 24 by 16 by 10. Driving everything with an Onkyo 905 connected to a Cinenova Grande 7 external amp.

Would I be losing much in terms of volume/headroom with something like the S4 or the Studio 40, vs the S6/S8 or the Studio 60/100? My initial thoughts are I would not, but some feedback would help.

Also, how different are the Studio and and Signature lines? I understand the tweeter technology is different on the Signature, with perhaps a brighter sound (which wouldn't work well in my environment), a slightly different midrange, and that the Signature fit and finish is better. Are there major sonic differences beyond the two the those who have heard both can comment on?

Thanks

Most of this can't be answered for you without you listening for yourself. Good news is you have a list of things you know you should listen to!

All you'll get from us is personal opinions, which will vary from person to person and ear to ear and type of stuff you listen to.

For me, the difference between the Studio's and Signature's wasn't earth shattering, but it was very significant. The Studio's are great speakers, but I'm still aware of them as speakers. The Signature's basically disappear, with an incredibly pure and true sound.

But again, this all depends on your own ear and what you generally listen to (all HT is not the same - e.g. Private Ryan versus Immortal Beloved).

Take a spectrum of what you like, and try it out on some Studios and Signatures, 40/4 60/6 and 100/8.

Most of this can't be answered for you without you listening for yourself. Good news is you have a list of things you know you should listen to!

All you'll get from us is personal opinions, which will vary from person to person and ear to ear and type of stuff you listen to.

For me, the difference between the Studio's and Signature's wasn't earth shattering, but it was very significant. The Studio's are great speakers, but I'm still aware of them as speakers. The Signature's basically disappear, with an incredibly pure and true sound.

But again, this all depends on your own ear and what you generally listen to (all HT is not the same - e.g. Private Ryan versus Immortal Beloved).

Take a spectrum of what you like, and try it out on some Studios and Signatures, 40/4 60/6 and 100/8.

Yes, I know I have to listen - that's the fun part, until one gets confused :) - in terms of bookshelf vs floorstanding in the scenario as I've described (always with subwoofer(s) ), are there volume/headroom issues that I should be objectively concerned about, given my room size and the fact that even floorstanders would be crossed at 80? Or is is pure sonic subjectivity?

Thanks

Yes, I know I have to listen - that's the fun part, until one gets confused :) - in terms of bookshelf vs floorstanding in the scenario as I've described (always with subwoofer(s) ), are there volume/headroom issues that I should be objectively concerned about, given my room size and the fact that even floorstanders would be crossed at 80? Or is is pure sonic subjectivity?

Thanks

Why would you cross the floorstanders at 80? Why not do "double-bass" (Onkyo) or whatever your AVR/pre-pro calls it? Most will let you have full-range fronts with a sub.

I like the full-range fronts, especially in a HT setup. It just gives you more, well, range. The bigger speakers are more capable, and with good room acoustics and speaker calibration, the overlap between the fronts and the sub are a non-issue (and actually can help in some rooms).

Anyway, I always say go with the best you can afford and love, and that will fit in your room.

Why would you cross the floorstanders at 80? Why not do "double-bass" (Onkyo) or whatever your AVR/pre-pro calls it? Most will let you have full-range fronts with a sub.

I like the full-range fronts, especially in a HT setup. It just gives you more, well, range. The bigger speakers are more capable, and with good room acoustics and speaker calibration, the overlap between the fronts and the sub are a non-issue (and actually can help in some rooms).

Anyway, I always say go with the best you can afford and love, and that will fit in your room.

Well, I don't want to spend the money if I don't have to, and I was simply wondering if I'm going to cross at 80 anyway, is there any residual sonic advantage to the towers.

Ironically, on other threads, some will propose to cross high quality, full range floors to your subs anyway to give more headroom to the mains and to let the more capable subs handle the low end...

Double bass doesn't address what I'm getting at - it just duplicates the main low frequency to the sub, which I don't need.

Technically, I guess I'm wondering if the S4's are flat to around 55 or so, crossing them at 80 should result in a nearly identical sound to the S6 or S8 crossed at 80, unless the larger cabinet/additional drivers have a sonic affect even at 80 and above...

Thanks

Yes, I know I have to listen - that's the fun part, until one gets confused :) - in terms of bookshelf vs floorstanding in the scenario as I've described (always with subwoofer(s) ), are there volume/headroom issues that I should be objectively concerned about, given my room size and the fact that even floorstanders would be crossed at 80? Or is is pure sonic subjectivity?

Thanks

Studio 100's and S8's will be able to fill a large room more easily and they
have more midbass something you will notice if you audition but i would still
cross them over at least at 60hz since they don't have a lot of spl's beyond
45hz and movies of late extend beyond 20hz also crossing them over at that
point will make the bass seem tighter.

I am running the S4's, C3, JL F112 in my bedroom, which is a much smaller room, about half the size of your room, and I can open them up to ear bleeding levels, yet they still maintain complete composure.

In that size room, I personally would be looking at the S6's but the S4's will work... you might not be able to pressurize the room as well, but they will work. I cross over at 80hz with both my S4's and my Studio 100's. I would much rather let the sub handle that area instead of straining my towers or mains... Any good quality sub will be better at that duty especially the F113 then any and I mean any of Paradigms speakers period. What are your mains losing out on here, 1 single octave... Please, you don't need to overwork these speakers, the F113 is much more efficient at working in the 15 to 80hz range.

What you should do is get your speakers and measure your room and let the room choose what you cross over at. 80hz with a good quality speaker is more then reasonable and has even been deemed THX spec, not that that means anything.

If you cross over at 60hz and you have a huge null at that 60hz range, and you try crossing at 80hz and you have no null, which crossover would you choose... the 60, just because your ego says, "my speakers can go 20hz lower so thats where I'm going to set them"... don't you think thats a bit silly when a speaker reproduces just about 20,000 hz except for 80 of them..... good lord..

I am running the S4's, C3, JL F112 in my bedroom, which is a much smaller room, about half the size of your room, and I can open them up to ear bleeding levels, yet they still maintain complete composure.

In that size room, I personally would be looking at the S6's but the S4's will work... you might not be able to pressurize the room as well, but they will work. I cross over at 80hz with both my S4's and my Studio 100's. I would much rather let the sub handle that area instead of straining my towers or mains... Any good quality sub will be better at that duty especially the F113 then any and I mean any of Paradigms speakers period. What are your mains losing out on here, 1 single octave... Please, you don't need to overwork these speakers, the F113 is much more efficient at working in the 15 to 80hz range.

What you should do is get your speakers and measure your room and let the room choose what you cross over at. 80hz with a good quality speaker is more then reasonable and has even been deemed THX spec, not that that means anything.

If you cross over at 60hz and you have a huge null at that 60hz range, and you try crossing at 80hz and you have no null, which crossover would you choose... the 60, just because your ego says, "my speakers can go 20hz lower so thats where I'm going to set them"... don't you think thats a bit silly when a speaker reproduces just about 20,000 hz except for 80 of them..... good lord..

Yes, even now with my current full range speakers, I'm finding a smoother response and better overall sound crossed at 80 than running them at full range.

So in essence, if I'm reading your thoughts correctly, the S6 will be able to play louder than an S4 with all other things being equal (crossover, amplification, etc.). Is this largely because of the cabinet size?, since the drivers appear to be the same....

Yes, even now with my current full range speakers, I'm finding a smoother response and better overall sound crossed at 80 than running them at full range. So in essence, if I'm reading your thoughts correctly, the S6 will be able to play louder than an S4 with all other things being equal (crossover, amplification, etc.). Is this largely because of the cabinet size?, since the drivers appear to be the same....

With a good amp, yes.... The S6 has more drivers, and is also a 3 way design as opposed to the S4. Although I am running my S4's with a 500wpc ice amp, which doubles to 1000wpc at 4ohms...

They can certainly get loud enough to make some people feel they are unpleasantly loud, that would not be me... with that amp I can crank them as high as the amp will go with no distortion, but the voice coils will start to overhead... :D:o At least 110db here...

With a good amp, yes.... The S6 has more drivers, and is also a 3 way design as opposed to the S4. Although I am running my S4's with a 500wpc ice amp, which doubles to 1000wpc at 4ohms...

They can certainly get loud enough to make some people feel they are unpleasantly loud, that would not be me... with that amp I can crank them as high as the amp will go with no distortion, but the voice coils will start to overhead... :D:o At least 110db here...

Sounds like you don't get much sleep in that bedroom...:)

I guess I need to see if I can ascertain much difference between the S4's, and S6's crossed with a sub - then compare that selection to the Studio 100's to see that the price/quality tradeoff is....

Sounds like you don't get much sleep in that bedroom...:)

I guess I need to see if I can ascertain much difference between the S4's, and S6's crossed with a sub - then compare that selection to the Studio 100's to see that the price/quality tradeoff is....

Hi thrang, I have just demoed the studio 40's side by side with the studio 100's.
In 2 channel with no sub switching between the 2, the 40's were as good in the mids and highs as the 100's but as expected just could not compete with the bass of the 100's.

Adding a sub to the mix closed the gap; but there was still a noticeable difference in the upper bass region with the 100's.It was clearly audible to me; they sounded meatier. Stating the obvious but those 2 extra bass drivers and bigger cabinet do more than give just a lower bass response.

So after an extended speaker search I have put a deposit down on Studio 100's and the cc590.:)

I've joined the Paradigm family.

Hi thrang, I have just demoed the studio 40's side by side with the studio 100's.
In 2 channel with no sub switching between the 2, the 40's were as good in the mids and highs as the 100's but as expected just could not compete with the bass of the 100's.

Adding a sub to the mix closed the gap; but there was still a noticeable difference in the upper bass region with the 100's.It was clearly audible to me; they sounded meatier. Stating the obvious but those 2 extra bass drivers and bigger cabinet do more than give just a lower bass response.

So after an extended speaker search I have put a deposit down on Studio 100's and the cc590.:)

I've joined the Paradigm family.

Thanks for this, and to all who have provided feedback...

Thanks for this, and to all who have provided feedback...

Regardless what we all advised please take some material and audition for
yourself we all hear a little different.

AbMag:

Thank you for detailed information. I had been comparing bi-wire cables and always thought/understood that bi-wiring was superior to regular wiring, but never saw this demonstrated in any tests, only the gospel from dealers and other hi-end folk who swear to bi-wiring and bi-amping. Thanks for your advice and probably saving me a few bucks along the way

I love this discussion. I've just joined the Paradigm family - just bought some Studio 20's, and decided to bi-wire them just to see what all the fuss was about. I don't see electrically how bi-wiring is any different from jumpering the posts, but I read a technical article online that made me want to put the issue to rest in my mind. The beauty is, you can test this with some Canare 4s8 or 4s11 cable from Markertek or BlueJean for about $1/ft or so - great cable! (BTW, I don't care anything about bananas or spades. If the cable end oxidizes, just cut it off. But that is a discussion for another thread...)

So for my little $25 experiment, I have to say I don't hear any significant difference from jumpered posts vs. bi-wire. So put me in the 'no difference' camp. Now I DID hear a slight difference in the 4s11 cable vs. the cheap Belden 16AWG cable I was using. But it didn't seem to make a difference whether I split the cable or combined it...

I noticed that Ultimate AV has a review of the Sig S8 v.2 http://ultimateavmag.com/speakersystems/408parref/ but measurements aren't yet ready. If I recall, something similar happened with the review of the Revel Studio2. Hopefully we'll also see Kal Rubinson or someone else from Stereophile also do a full review and measurements.

I love this discussion. I've just joined the Paradigm family - just bought some Studio 20's, and decided to bi-wire them just to see what all the fuss was about. I don't see electrically how bi-wiring is any different from jumpering the posts, but I read a technical article online that made me want to put the issue to rest in my mind. The beauty is, you can test this with some Canare 4s8 or 4s11 cable from Markertek or BlueJean for about $1/ft or so - great cable! (BTW, I don't care anything about bananas or spades. If the cable end oxidizes, just cut it off. But that is a discussion for another thread...)

So for my little $25 experiment, I have to say I don't hear any significant difference from jumpered posts vs. bi-wire. So put me in the 'no difference' camp. Now I DID hear a slight difference in the 4s11 cable vs. the cheap Belden 16AWG cable I was using. But it didn't seem to make a difference whether I split the cable or combined it...

The difference in awg the canare being lower no. may have something to do
with it if compared to the same awg of Belden i bet no difference would be
detected.

The difference in awg the canare being lower no. may have something to do
with it if compared to the same awg of Belden i bet no difference would be
detected.

Or he connected them differently... or there was a break in the thinner wire, etc...

Same AWG would have no audible or measurable difference... if anyone hears a difference, it's a placebo effect (most likely brought on by the strong need to justify the more expensive cable).

The difference in awg the canare being lower no. may have something to do
with it if compared to the same awg of Belden i bet no difference would be
detected.

This is what I expected before I did the test - no difference on a run this short (10 feet). So I was surprised when I thought I heard one. So I put the Belden back and sure enough, the top end wasn't as open. Put the Canare back, and there's the top end again!

I'm acutely aware of placebo effect / psychoacoustics, and have been careful to guard myself against it my entire life. I have a studio / live sound background, and I'm a skeptic by nature ;) especially when it comes to audiophile BS. But I heard what I heard.

Like I said in my previous post, I heard no difference when biwiring vs not, but there is definitely a difference between 18AWG Belden and the Canare 4s11...

This is what I expected before I did the test - no difference on a run this short (10 feet). So I was surprised when I thought I heard one. So I put the Belden back and sure enough, the top end wasn't as open. Put the Canare back, and there's the top end again!

I'm acutely aware of placebo effect / psychoacoustics, and have been careful to guard myself against it my entire life. I have a studio / live sound background, and I'm a skeptic by nature ;) especially when it comes to audiophile BS. But I heard what I heard.

Like I said in my previous post, I heard no difference when biwiring vs not, but there is definitely a difference between 18AWG Belden and the Canare 4s11...

What AWG is the canare? If it's really 11AWG, then yes, you could hear a difference between 18 and 11 AWG wire, certainly. The minimum you should use, even on a short run, is I think 14 AWG for these speakers. Not sure it really makes a difference though.

And I mean absolutely no offense, but I'd trust a meter a lot more than your ears in terms of this experiment. However, in terms of what you should use, definitely trust your ears. Placebo or not, what you hear is what you hear, no matter what anyone else says.

What AWG is the canare? If it's really 11AWG, then yes, you could hear a difference between 18 and 11 AWG wire, certainly. The minimum you should use, even on a short run, is I think 14 AWG for these speakers. Not sure it really makes a difference though.

And I mean absolutely no offense, but I'd trust a meter a lot more than your ears in terms of this experiment. However, in terms of what you should use, definitely trust your ears. Placebo or not, what you hear is what you hear, no matter what anyone else says.

It is accurate to state to "trust a meter" and I agree when your measuring absolutes. It is problematic when you begin to deal with spatial issues, like depth, stage width, phase and time delay and the overused phrase "holographic images".

Why is it some cabling provides images only between the speakers and still others give you the sense of height and/or extend the image beyond the the limits of the speakers plane?

I will admit that the cost vs return issue plays heavily and, ultimately the resolution power of the electronics, speakers and room sonics will play havoc in being able to perceive the sonic attributes I promulgate.

;)

It is accurate to state to "trust a meter" and I agree when your measuring absolutes. It is problematic when you begin to deal with spatial issues, like depth, stage width, phase and time delay and the overused phrase "holographic images".

Why is it some cabling provides images only between the speakers and still others give you the sense of height and/or extend the image beyond the the limits of the speakers plane?

I will admit that the cost vs return issue plays heavily and, ultimately the resolution power of the electronics, speakers and room sonics will play havoc in being able to perceive the sonic attributes I promulgate.

;)


And AWG = AWG = the same powere any speaker cable will carry. I challenge anyone to prove that two speaker cables of the same AWG produce any different sound in any way.

In fairness, you were comparing two cables with, I think, significantly different AWG.

What AWG is the canare? If it's really 11AWG, then yes, you could hear a difference between 18 and 11 AWG wire, certainly. The minimum you should use, even on a short run, is I think 14 AWG for these speakers. Not sure it really makes a difference though.

And I mean absolutely no offense, but I'd trust a meter a lot more than your ears in terms of this experiment. However, in terms of what you should use, definitely trust your ears. Placebo or not, what you hear is what you hear, no matter what anyone else says.

Yes, the Canare is a star quad design, each cable is 14AWG. Combined, I believe it is the equivalent of 11AWG. So the difference I heard would be the difference between 18AWG and 11AWG.

I suppose I can post here... I own a pair of Paradigm Phantom's. I bought them 6 years ago or so as floor demo's from my local dealer. They are great speakers IMO.

However, I'm looking to replace them... upgraditis :-P.

One quick question. For the owners of the current Paradigm Studio series, can someone measure the height of the CC-590 without including the spikes/outrigger feet. Paradigm only gives specs for the center with the spikes/feet.

Thanks.

I suppose I can post here... I own a pair of Paradigm Phantom's. I bought them 6 years ago or so as floor demo's from my local dealer. They are great speakers IMO.

However, I'm looking to replace them... upgraditis :-P.

One quick question. For the owners of the current Paradigm Studio series, can someone measure the height of the CC-590 without including the spikes/outrigger feet. Paradigm only gives specs for the center with the spikes/feet.

Thanks.

8.5 inches

I'm considering buying a used pair of Studio 20s v.2 but then thought how would they compare with new Mini Monitors? The price would be close. Either way, they would be paired with a sub and used as mains for 50/50 music/movies. What do you think?

I bet you would be happy either way. You should demo them and listen for yourself. Me, I would be tempted to go with the much newer monitor over the v2 studios.

DN

I'd like to demo them but it won't be easy. The seller is a few hours away, but will drive them in if I want them. They were surrounds to a pair of Studio 80s so I don't think they were driven that hard.

I'm just wondering how they would compare - how much have Minis improved since the 20s v2 came out? Oh well, I'll make some sort of decision by tomorrow night.

Does anyone have the current MSRPs for the studio and signature line? I know the price went up a while back and I don't think the prices I'm finding are correct.

Also, would it be crazy to use the signature S2 or S4 up front with the C1 center (constrained by size...) and then use the Studio's ADP-590 for surrounds? Trying to stay within a budget is very difficult!

Thanks!

Hey Superstar...
Check out my system here..... http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44008

Why don't you look at audiogon.com and find used equipment there to stay in your budget, I got everything for that setup from there.... It was a great deal, and I am thrilled to death with how it turned out... Sounds spectacular.......

Hey Superstar...
Check out my system here..... http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44008

Why don't you look at audiogon.com and find used equipment there to stay in your budget, I got everything for that setup from there.... It was a great deal, and I am thrilled to death with how it turned out... Sounds spectacular.......


That's a good idea... there's just something nice about having a warranty... Although I suppose if I found a great deal, I might not feel as bad about not having the warranty.

Not too much a warranty is going to benefit you as opposed to the cost difference/savings.... IMO

Not a whole lot that can really go wrong with a speaker, If a driver takes a cr@p replacing it doesn't cost a whole lot... Just found out the new Beryllium tweeter on the sigs costs $300.00, I think a midrange driver replacement is about $100 - $150.. probably the same for a bass driver as well... The cabinet is just a wood box...

I guess you'd have to figure out how much its worth to you... :)

Does anyone have the current MSRPs for the studio and signature line? I know the price went up a while back and I don't think the prices I'm finding are correct.

We should make this question a sticky and post it on the first page.

If you go back a few pages you'll find a link to a website for MSRP.

Not too much a warranty is going to benefit you as opposed to the cost difference/savings.... IMO

Not a whole lot that can really go wrong with a speaker, If a driver takes a cr@p replacing it doesn't cost a whole lot... Just found out the new Beryllium tweeter on the sigs costs $300.00, I think a midrange driver replacement is about $100 - $150.. probably the same for a bass driver as well... The cabinet is just a wood box...

I guess you'd have to figure out how much its worth to you... :)

Good point.. should something happen, sounds like it wouldn't be terribly expensive to fix (it wouldn't double my cost).

Not too much a warranty is going to benefit you as opposed to the cost difference/savings.... IMO

Not a whole lot that can really go wrong with a speaker, If a driver takes a cr@p replacing it doesn't cost a whole lot... Just found out the new Beryllium tweeter on the sigs costs $300.00, I think a midrange driver replacement is about $100 - $150.. probably the same for a bass driver as well... The cabinet is just a wood box...

I guess you'd have to figure out how much its worth to you... :)

So it's $800 for parts, and ~$2500 for the cabinet? There must be something else in there that costs some cash...

So it's $800 for parts, and ~$2500 for the cabinet? There must be something else in there that costs some cash...

R&D, gasoline, salaries, taxes, etc. :D

I don't know if it matters much what the MSRP's are for Paradigm speakers since most of the dealers I've spoken with have no clue. You can get 4 different MSRP's from 4 different dealers (and yes, I did). Even had one dealer tell me the MSRP was for "each speaker" not a "pair" and that I "must be crazy to think I could get a pair of speakers for that price". Be afraid.

hello paradigm owners, here's what i have:Studio 100's,cc 690,20's surrounds and ps 1200 sub.Other gear:
denon 2307 ci (100 wts/c)
tripplite ht7300pc power conditioner
pvr,360 and ps 3
samsung 5271 lcd(picture is great)
I recently upgraded from the monitor series.
http://s288.photobucket.com/albums/ll196/mikeh08/?albumview=slideshow

Been looking at getting some new paradigms for my family room. Rooms about 14x24, I got a Denon AVR-2805 and 2 10in subs. This is what I'm looking at, any thoughts would be appreciated. By the way I got to listen to a CC-190, mini monitors and Atom Dipoles and it sounded fantastic.

Paradigm Monitor Series: Center: cc-290 Fronts: Mini Monitors Surrounds: ADP-190's

Been looking at getting some new paradigms for my family room. Rooms about 14x24, I got a Denon AVR-2805 and 2 10in subs. This is what I'm looking at, any thoughts would be appreciated. By the way I got to listen to a CC-190, mini monitors and Atom Dipoles and it sounded fantastic.

Paradigm Monitor Series: Center: cc-290 Fronts: Mini Monitors Surrounds: ADP-190's

i think thatd be a very decent lil setup. i just picked up a pair of mini monitors on friday and i am SOOO impressed!!!

hello paradigm owners, here's what i have:Studio 100's,cc 690,20's surrounds and ps 1200 sub.Other gear:
denon 2307 ci (100 wts/c)
tripplite ht7300pc power conditioner
pvr,360 and ps 3
samsung 5271 lcd(picture is great)
I recently upgraded from the monitor series.
http://s288.photobucket.com/albums/ll196/mikeh08/?albumview=slideshow

how much of a diff did u notice in the cc change(390-690)??? also did u prefer the adp's over the 20's for surrounds???

Thinking of putting together this system and wanted to know what you thought.

Paradigm Sig8's v.1 for fronts.
Paradigm Mini Monitor's v.5 for surround
Paradigm Atom's v.5 for rear.
haven't picked a center yet.
dual MFM15 sub's from av123

this would probably be paried with a denon 4308CI receiver to begin with.

BTW the room is to be used as a HT/Music room. dimensions are 22 ft by 19 ft.

Thinking of putting together this system and wanted to know what you thought.

Paradigm Sig8's v.1 for fronts.
Paradigm Mini Monitor's v.5 for surround
Paradigm Atom's v.5 for rear.
haven't picked a center yet.
dual MFM15 sub's from av123

this would probably be paried with a denon 4308CI receiver to begin with.

BTW the room is to be used as a HT/Music room. dimensions are 22 ft by 19 ft.

A closer match in sound for the surrounds would be the Studio Line, but I'm sure you could always swap those out later, at least let us know how it sounds. As far as a center, I would suggest you get a matching center with your mains, to keep a nice smooth and seemless front sound stage or at least the .v4 Studio center...

I have the Studio ADP-590 in use as my side surrounds and Sig S4's, C3 for my front sound stage and its sounds awesome...

how much of a diff did u notice in the cc change(390-690)??? also did u prefer the adp's over the 20's for surrounds???
fuller sound stage and clarity using the 690 center v 4.I was going to buy the floor model(studio 20 v4) for $740 plus taxes from a dealer and he offered me brand new set for $850 p/t.We settled for $800 p/t and so i got them new.After using them as surrounds in my living room,i kinda like the monitor adp 390's instead because they enveloped you more with sound than the direct radiating speaker(20's) do.Well thats from my other set up i had and i am still tweaking my new ht system at the moment.

I was just wondering if there was a way to tell which version of signatures someone has? I asked someone which version of signature S2's they were selling but they told me they weren't able to tell by looking at the speaker.

I was just wondering if there was a way to tell which version of signatures someone has? I asked someone which version of signature S2's they were selling but they told me they weren't able to tell by looking at the speaker.

It's listed right on the huge name plate on the back of the speaker...if it doesn't list a version by the speaker model, then it is a Version 1. This has been Paradigm's method for at least 15 years.

I was just wondering if there was a way to tell which version of signatures someone has? I asked someone which version of signature S2's they were selling but they told me they weren't able to tell by looking at the speaker.

Buyer be a ware.
Buyer beware
Buyer be aware

pick one :)

I was just wondering if there was a way to tell which version of signatures someone has? I asked someone which version of signature S2's they were selling but they told me they weren't able to tell by looking at the speaker.



My Sig S4's have a identifier plate on the back, and it labels the model no. only... S4 and C3

Here is a picture of the .v1 front tweeter and mid.. of the s8...
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_3/images/paradigm-s8-c5-adp-servo-sub-s8-front.jpg

Here is the Beryllium Tweeter of the Sig .v2... its off a review of the S6http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/pics/200711_paradigm_s6_t2.jpg

Its plain to see in the pictures alone the differences of the .v1 to .v2

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/pics/paradigm_signature_s8_c5_servo.jpg

C5 .v2.... Notice the difference with the tweeters and the Mide range Co-PAL™ cobalt-infused pure-aluminum cone
http://ultimateavmag.com/images/archivesart/408parref.3.jpg

warp,
i just caught a good deal on studio 100v4 that i may not be able to pass up. do you think my rotel 993 200x3wpc can power them enough to reach their potential? I know it will be ok, but i am not really wanting to buy another amp if it won't be enough.

if so, i might have a virtually (10/10, 4 weeks old) new pair of studio 60v4 for sale if anyone is interested

My Sig S4's have a identifier plate on the back, and it labels the model no. only... S4 and C3

That's because (like the other poster said) the v1's don't have the version on the back, only the v2's+. Pretty sure you bought v1's (if I recall).

The name plate by the speaker connectors, where it says "Signature" will include the version number, if greater than 1. Plus, as Warp pointed out, it's pretty easy to tell just by looking at the tweeter (assuming they didn't replace the tweeter in a v1 with a v2 tweeter).

Check the tweeter, check the name plate, and you should be good to go. If the dealer didn't know this, I'd suggest you run away.

warp,
i just caught a good deal on studio 100v4 that i may not be able to pass up. do you think my rotel 993 200x3wpc can power them enough to reach their potential? I know it will be ok, but i am not really wanting to buy another amp if it won't be enough.

if so, i might have a virtually (10/10, 4 weeks old) new pair of studio 60v4 for sale if anyone is interested

Congrats...

That should be a great power plant for the 100's, same as the Rotel 1095, difference being the 1095 is 5 x 200 I am running for my studio system, and whatever you choose for a center channel to match... the CC-590 or CC-690

Powering the rear channels off the receiver will work out fantastically, you can always upgrade to a 2 channel amp later down the line.. but I doubt it will be necessary...

Well, finally made my decision this past weekend and went with the Paradigms. They sound great, and I'm very happy with the purchase and happy to be finally done the decision that cost me sleep over the past few months!

I went with the monitors 11 up front, millenia 30 for the center, and adp-390s for the rear. My question is...with my Onkyo 705 and the audessy set-up put my rears at 150hz. With the 390s, what does everyone recommend?

That seem really high to me.
Most people will suggest 80hz

what does everyone recommend?

I recommend that you run the set up several times to see if there is any variance. If not, leave it where is is for a few weeks and listen to a variety of stuff. Then make a change and listen to the same stuff again, make another change and listen again. Keep doing this until your ears are happy.

Well, finally made my decision this past weekend and went with the Paradigms. They sound great, and I'm very happy with the purchase and happy to be finally done the decision that cost me sleep over the past few months!

I went with the monitors 11 up front, millenia 30 for the center, and adp-390s for the rear. My question is...with my Onkyo 705 and the audessy set-up put my rears at 150hz. With the 390s, what does everyone recommend?


The paradigm websight states the ADP-390 FR as ±2 dB from 100 Hz - 20 kHz, so you can cross them over just a touch above that area... 110hz?

150hz seems pretty high.....


JohnGZ28 has good advice here... listen and see how it goes... then make changes to see how you feel about the difference..

ok guys - i'd appreciate some opinions from S8, S6 v2 owners. now that you've owned them for awhile, what do you think? what do you like best and what do you feel is lacking? thanks.
mike

Is there a price list of the paradigm speakers? I'm making a list of speakers to consider but I can't find the prices on the speakers on their site, it seems they are in-store only type of deals.

Earlier in the thread this like was posted for prices.

http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.htm#Paradigm

ok guys - i'd appreciate some opinions from S8, S6 v2 owners. now that you've owned them for awhile, what do you think? what do you like best and what do you feel is lacking? thanks.
mike

There are only a handful of people that have gotten the .v2 Sigs, so I hope they chime in for you, I bought .v1 S4's and C3 which for me are fantastic...

Earlier in the thread this like was posted for prices.

http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.htm#Paradigm

thank you very much

Earlier in the thread this like was posted for prices.

http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.htm#Paradigm

I'm thinking those are old prices... They have gone up....

Here is a current catalog from my dealer.... unfortunately they don't carry the Signature line so there are no prices for them... :(

http://www.audioemporium.com/2008catalog.pdf

I'm thinking those are old prices... They have gone up....

Here is a current catalog from my dealer.... unfortunately they don't carry the Signature line so there are no prices for them... :(

http://www.audioemporium.com/2008catalog.pdf

thats krazy. i thought the adp-390's were still $750???

I agree that these are old prices. Sorry, I don't have a newer price list.

thanks warp, the sigs have been out for awhile, i'm curious why there aren't more owners. not a good sign. mike

thanks warp, the sigs have been out for awhile, i'm curious why there aren't more owners. not a good sign. mike

I don't think the lack of vocal Sig owners is a bad sign. The upper-hifi market is just fickle. Paradigm is known as a value brand, so people interested in big-ticket speakers tend to turn their nose up at something like the Sigs. I have been throguh a number of high-end speakers, and honestly, the Sig V1's beat out the likes of KEF Reference, Aerial Acoustics, Martin Logan and Dynaudio Contour. The Sigs are a very balanced sounding speaker, with a very good soundstage, very good treble detail without sounding edgy or sibilant, and they can handle just about all the power you can throw at them.

The economy and the fact that sig v1's are very good sounding speakers may have
people happy enough to keep them ,I know that as a studio v3 owner i am content
with my purchase and don't feel the need to unload them for v4's as to my ears the
difference is small.

I picked up my Mini Monitors yesterday and got them all hooked up, can't wait for the CC-290 and ADP-190's to come in. Just wanted to chime in and say thanks for the help and hope to be posting more on this thread and the forum. I'll post some new pics when I get them all set up.

ok guys - i'd appreciate some opinions from S8, S6 v2 owners. now that you've owned them for awhile, what do you think? what do you like best and what do you feel is lacking? thanks.
mike

I have a S6/C5/ADP3/S2 7.1 setup, and I love it.

The sound is pretty much perfect for my, for both HT and music (although I'm mostly HT). Coupled with my PB13 Ultra (and 110" screen), I enjoy movies in my HT more than a real theater, and the field-of-vision is pretty much the same, with much better sound.

What would I change? I'm not sure... maybe the ADP's supporting both di- and bi-pole (or whatever it's called - so I can set if they fire in- or out-of-phase). If I did more 2-channel music, I probably would have done S8's, but with the sub they would have been competing too much and/or clipped off anyway for my mostly HT setup.

What don't I like? Nothing to speak of. Only minor issue is it can be hard to listen to them at low volumes. They are slightly flatter when below calibration levels, but they still sound 100x better than my old speakers.

Anyway, as warp said, not a ton of people have Sig v2's. But you have to go and listen to all the speakers you can that are in your budget. I listened to Sigs, B&W's, (and some ML's), and really preferred the Sig's a lot. By a wide margin (for my ears and taste).

I have my HT setup in my room, so I'm using the Cinema 110 series. I'm thinking of changing the left, right and center's to the Monitor series. Is it okay if I only change the fronts and leave the surrounds the way they are? I don't feel like getting matching surrounds because of the limited space in my room.

I picked up my Mini Monitors yesterday and got them all hooked up, can't wait for the CC-290 and ADP-190's to come in. Just wanted to chime in and say thanks for the help and hope to be posting more on this thread and the forum. I'll post some new pics when I get them all set up.

I'm thinking of getting that exact same setup. Please come back and let me know how it sounds!

I'm thinking of getting that exact same setup. Please come back and let me know how it sounds!

Sure will, when I went and looked I listened to the Mini Monitors, CC-190, and the Cinema ADP's. I was really impressed with that set up (Marantz reciever and a 12in sub also) and can't wait to get mine all set up ( Denon simalar to the Marantz and 2 10in subs).

I have my HT setup in my room, so I'm using the Cinema 110 series. I'm thinking of changing the left, right and center's to the Monitor series. Is it okay if I only change the fronts and leave the surrounds the way they are? I don't feel like getting matching surrounds because of the limited space in my room.

I had the 110's before, and really liked them! They're pretty darn good for the price point.

I think as long as you match the 3-speaker front sound stage, you should be fine.

New to the forum. Just purshased a surround system consisting of Monitor 9 V5's, CC 290 center, ADP-190's and a DSP-3200 subwoofer this is my first home threatre system and I am just wondering if this will be a decent setup. I have the option of trading up within the first year for full purchase credit. I felt that down the road I may upgrade to the Studio line if this doesn't do the trick. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks, Mike

I had the 110's before, and really liked them! They're pretty darn good for the price point.

I think as long as you match the 3-speaker front sound stage, you should be fine.

Oh yeah they are great. I love em and they are actually perfect for my room size too, but I want something fuller for music. The 110's costed me about 940 Canadian after taxes. Pretty good deal.

New to the forum. Just purshased a surround system consisting of Monitor 9 V5's, CC 290 center, ADP-190's and a DSP-3200 subwoofer this is my first home threatre system and I am just wondering if this will be a decent setup. I have the option of trading up within the first year for full purchase credit. I felt that down the road I may upgrade to the Studio line if this doesn't do the trick. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks, Mike

the upgrade bug is a tough one to get rid of, let me tell you. you have a good setup, by most people's standards it is a great setup. however, if you lurk around here for long you will want something better. i started out going to purchase monitor 7s, listened to the studio line and ended up blowing my initial budget away with the studio 60s, cc-590, adp-590s and a velodyne sub. well, that was just about a month ago and now i have a svs pb13 ultra and studio 100s/cc-690 on the way! i think i will have a little peace of mind knowing i have a great system, and for me i know the sigs are probably way better, but the cost/performance ratio just isn't there for me.

sounds like your dealer gave you a sweet deal, mine did as well with the 590 hence the upgrade. i just found a killer price on the studio 100s and couldn't pass them up. i say listen for a while, figure out exactly what you want (could be that you are perfectly satisfied) and go from there.

thanks for your thoughts guys, i appreciate it. mike

[QUOTE=xjaguar23;13986977]the upgrade bug is a tough one to get rid of, let me tell you. you have a good setup, by most people's standards it is a great setup. however, if you lurk around here for long you will want something better. i started out going to purchase monitor 7s, listened to the studio line and ended up blowing my initial budget away with the studio 60s, cc-590, adp-590s and a velodyne sub. well, that was just about a month ago and now i have a svs pb13 ultra and studio 100s/cc-690 on the way!
[QUOTE]

I started out looking at the monitor series budget level, ended up ordering the studio 60's and cc 590 and upgraded to the 100's before I took delivery :o
Upgraditis there is no known cure....:rolleyes:

On a side note I have the 100's but the cc590 is on a slow boat from canada, so I'm still using my old center.I watched the Golden Compass last night and had a perfect demonstration of the importance of sonically matched fronts.The scene in the movie where the polar bear roars into each speaker across the front soundstage; front left, center, front right, center and front left again.Even my wife commented on the noticeable dip in sound from the center (they are all calibrated to the same level).....the 590 cant get here quick enough:o

I'm thinking of purchasing Paradigm PV-150 in-wall surround speakers (as the SVS surrounds I now have are butt ugly for my family room).

I have Paradigm Atoms up front (but on wall up front doesn't look bad with the TV mounted on the wall). Sound quality isn't a big issue in this room -- I have a dedicated theater room for sound quality.

I've never used in-wall before. How do you install them.

Can someone give a complete step by step. Wires are in place. I just don't know how you actually put a speaker in a wall. What do you need to look for (space between studs -- or what)? How do they stay in place?

just purchased some monitor 7's and i am blown away with the sound quality. i was going to buy a monitor cc series center but i have no where to put it, can any one recommend me a lcd stand the has a center slot that will fit any cc center speaker.

btw lcd is a 46 inch

Hi All,

I've got a Paradigm set up in my basement theatre (Monitor 7's, ADP 370's, CC370 and PS-1200) but want to put a small system upstairs for part time use. I've listened to the Cinema 110's and liked them a lot, but am wondering about how the Cinema 90 system compares. The room layout isn't ideal for HT, and if i can save a few $$ by going with the 90's then it might be the better choice.

Any opinions on the Cinema series??

Just thought I would post the Signature Pricing I found recently, although I believe this is before the pricing increase recently...

The Signature v.2 lineup:
New Model! S1 – Two-driver 2-way bookshelf: 6-inch mid/bass, 1” P-Be; $1600/pr
S2 – Two driver 2-way bookshelf: 7-inch mid/bass, 1-inch P-Be; $2400/pr
S4 – Three driver 2.5-way bookshelf: 7-inch bass, 7-inch mid/bass, 1” P-Be; $3200/pr
New Model! S6 – Four-driver 3-way floorstanding: 2 x 7-inch bass, 7-inch mid/bass, 1” P-Be; $4500/pr
S8 – Six-driver 3-way floorstanding: 4 x 7-inch bass, 7-inch midrange, 1-inch P-Be; $6500/pr
New Model! C1 – Four-driver 3-way center: 2 x 5.5-inch, 5-inch mid/bass, 1-inch P-Be; $900/ea
C3 – Four-driver 3-way center: 2 x 7-inch bass, 5-inch mid/bass, 1-inch P-Be; $1800/ea
C5 – Six-driver 3.5-way center: 2 x 7-inch bass, 5-inch mid/bass, 1-inch P-Be; $3000/ea
New Model! W5 – Six driver 3.5-way on-wall: 2 x 7-inch bass, 2 x 7-inch mid/bass, 4.5-inch mid, 1-inch P-Be; $2800/ea
New Model! W5 C – Six-driver 3.5-way on-wall center: 2 x 7-inch bass, 2 x 7-inch mid/bass, 4.5-inch mid, 1-inch P-Be; $2800/ea
New Model! ADP1 – Five-driver 3-way surround: 7-inch bass, 2 x 3.5-inch mid, 2 x 1-inch P-Be; $900/ea
ADP3 – Five driver 3-way surround: 8’ bass, 2 x 4.5-inch mid, 2 x 1-inch P-Be; $1700/ea (FMV prices are in U.S. dollars. Birdseye Maple and Piano Black finishes slightly higher.)

I'm driving my new 100's with a marantz 8002 avr; would there be a benefit to biamping the 100's with the 8002?:confused:

I'm driving my new 100's with a marantz 8002 avr; would there be a benefit to biamping the 100's with the 8002?:confused:

Any audible difference would likely be a placebo effect. A seperate amp using your 8002 as the processor would probably make a big sound improvement. Just my opinion.

Any audible difference would likely be a placebo effect. A seperate amp using your 8002 as the processor would probably make a big sound improvement. Just my opinion.
I agree if the room is large and the volume levels are high and if your dealer
is good he might loan one so you can make a judgement call.

I'm driving my new 100's with a marantz 8002 avr; would there be a benefit to biamping the 100's with the 8002?:confused:

None. Passive bi-amping (where you use the existing crossovers in the speakers) makes zero difference. There's a huge thread on this topic somewhere in here, check it out.

(FWIW, I was sure, logically, it would make a difference, but reading the thread convinced me.)

As someone above said, a bigger/better amp will make a difference wih the 100's. The more clean power you can feed them (clean down to low resistance), the better.

You guys don't make any sense above, he is talking about bi-amping, NOT bi-wiring. With the 8002, you can use the rear surround channels to bi-amp the fronts. Likely result is over 200W/channel to the fronts. Marantz uses some pretty stout amps in the 8002, I doubt even the low impedance 100s will be starved.

Explain why he would need an aftermarket "bigger" amp.

You guys don't make any sense above, he is talking about bi-amping, NOT bi-wiring. With the 8002, you can use the rear surround channels to bi-amp the fronts. Likely result is over 200W/channel to the fronts. Marantz uses some pretty stout amps in the 8002, I doubt even the low impedance 100s will be starved.

Explain why he would need an aftermarket "bigger" amp.

Bridging will increase the amp output not bi-amping and to most that have
tried it myself included using the bi-amp feature in most receivers yeilds
no audible difference.

Greetings,
I've been looking to get into Paradigm for some time, and just recently ran into an oportunity of acquiring a pair of still NIB (factory sealed) Studio 60's v.4 from an individual for 1200.00 and I wanted to get yours thoughts on this being a good deal or if I would have a chance at a better price from a local Paradigm dealer? This sound like a fair price for still NIB?

My future plans are to get the CC-690 and ADP-590, can't wait :D

You guys don't make any sense above, he is talking about bi-amping, NOT bi-wiring. With the 8002, you can use the rear surround channels to bi-amp the fronts. Likely result is over 200W/channel to the fronts. Marantz uses some pretty stout amps in the 8002, I doubt even the low impedance 100s will be starved.

Explain why he would need an aftermarket "bigger" amp.

Read the thread, it's way more intelligent than I am...

Bi-amping is different than bridging. But even so, both provide almost no audible difference unless you're starting with a really underpowered amp that is clipping, and then only bridging might make a difference, passive bi-amping will make no difference.

Greetings,
I've been looking to get into Paradigm for some time, and just recently ran into an oportunity of acquiring a pair of still NIB (factory sealed) Studio 60's v.4 from an individual for 1200.00 and I wanted to get yours thoughts on this being a good deal or if I would have a chance at a better price from a local Paradigm dealer? This sound like a fair price for still NIB?

My future plans are to get the CC-690 and ADP-590, can't wait :D

Thats sound like a good price to me.

Bridging will increase the amp output not bi-amping and to most that have
tried it myself included using the bi-amp feature in most receivers yeilds
no audible difference.

Well, that could be true in the sense that most of the power is used by the woofer section, and bi-amping would not really help that significantly. However, the 8002 puts out 230W into 4 ohms at .1% distortion. How much more do you need than that with a 91 dB sensitivity speaker?

Read the thread, it's way more intelligent than I am...

Bi-amping is different than bridging. But even so, both provide almost no audible difference unless you're starting with a really underpowered amp that is clipping, and then only bridging might make a difference, passive bi-amping will make no difference.

I'm well aware of the difference between the two. Bridging is a significant jump in power...so telling us to buy a bigger amp and then telling us that bridging won't really make a difference is a direct contradiction.

Well, that could be true in the sense that most of the power is used by the woofer section, and bi-amping would not really help that significantly. However, the 8002 puts out 230W into 4 ohms at .1% distortion. How much more do you need than that with a 91 dB sensitivity speaker?Frankly, as much as you can give it. The Sigs at least can handle way more, and the more you give them the better they sound (in a room that can handle it).
I'm well aware of the difference between the two. Bridging is a significant jump in power...so telling us to buy a bigger amp and then telling us that bridging won't really make a difference is a direct contradiction.

Well, bridging is a jump in power from the same amp. An amp with 350WPC with dedicated transformers, power supplies, etc., per amp is way better than bridging two amps from a 250WPC amp/AVR. I'm not too familiar with the one mentioned, but your still limited by the amp itself, and all the components in the amp. Also, if you don't change the speaker crossovers, then you also lose any/most benefit from anything like this.

A bigger amp per channel is (way) better than bridging a weaker one.

Anyway, I'm way out of my yard here, so if you're really interested, I suggest you go check out the bi-amp thread and search/post questions there. I was in the same boat as you, where it made no logical sense to me, until I read the thread and posted some questions (and got slapped for asking stupid questions, but it was worth it to feel good about the conclusions).

(Also, it should be noted the OP to this question in this thread asked about bi-amping, not bridging, if that matters to you.)

Well, that could be true in the sense that most of the power is used by the woofer section, and bi-amping would not really help that significantly. However, the 8002 puts out 230W into 4 ohms at .1% distortion. How much more do you need than that with a 91 dB sensitivity speaker?



I'm well aware of the difference between the two. Bridging is a significant jump in power...so telling us to buy a bigger amp and then telling us that bridging won't really make a difference is a direct contradiction.

Since the model he has is 4ohm capable and delivers quite well i doubt he
will gain anything unless its played very loud in a large room and then
that may be debateable depending on the material being played and what
crossover setting is used with what sub.

Since the model he has is 4ohm capable and delivers quite well i doubt he
will gain anything unless its played very loud in a large room and then
that may be debateable depending on the material being played and what
crossover setting is used with what sub.

appreciate the various viewpoints folks, I did biamp my old fronts and avr (entry level denon and polks) and could not tell the difference.

I asked the question here as Paradigm refer to biamping (and biwiring) in the studio owners manual (page 10).Paradigm are quite clear in what they see as the advantages thus i wondered wether i would get benefits with my new setup.

I will give biamping a go, I'm not using the surround back channels and for the price of a few meters of speaker cable it might be a worthwhile experiment.:)

appreciate the various viewpoints folks, I did biamp my old fronts and avr (entry level denon and polks) and could not tell the difference.

I asked the question here as Paradigm refer to biamping (and biwiring) in the studio owners manual (page 10).Paradigm are quite clear in what they see as the advantages thus i wondered wether i would get benefits with my new setup.

I will give biamping a go, I'm not using the surround back channels and for the price of a few meters of speaker cable it might be a worthwhile experiment.:)

Go for it. You won't notice any difference, but enjoy! :D

And seriously, check out the bi-amping thread, it's worth the read if you care about this at all.

I asked the question here as Paradigm refer to biamping (and biwiring) in the studio owners manual (page 10).Paradigm are quite clear in what they see as the advantages thus i wondered wether i would get benefits with my new setup.Yes but check out the biamp/biwire threads as some of Paradigm's arguments are spurious or self-serving.

Read the thread, it's way more intelligent than I am...

Bi-amping is different than bridging. But even so, both provide almost no audible difference unless you're starting with a really underpowered amp that is clipping, and then only bridging might make a difference, passive bi-amping will make no difference.

Passive bi-amping could prevent your tweeters from being fed a clipped signal.

Most power is used by the low section of a loudspeaker and the amp driving the low section may still clip when driven hard, but it will not result in a fried tweeter if the tweeter is driven by it's own amp which in all likelihood won't be driven into clipping.

Passive bi-amping could prevent your tweeters from being fed a clipped signal.

Most power is used by the low section of a loudspeaker and the amp driving the low section may still clip when driven hard, but it will not result in a fried tweeter if the tweeter is driven by it's own amp which in all likelihood won't be driven into clipping.

Apparently not true unless you do your own crossovers. So in passive bi-amping (using the speaker crossovers), this just doesn't make a difference.

But again, let's not turn this thread into the other thread - pretty much everything you can think of has been discussed and proven to make no difference.

Apparently not true unless you do your own crossovers. So in passive bi-amping (using the speaker crossovers), this just doesn't make a difference.

But again, let's not turn this thread into the other thread - pretty much everything you can think of has been discussed and proven to make no difference.


I don't think you know what bi-amping is if you don't think that it would prevent a clipped signal from damaging your tweeters if the amp that is clipping is driving your low pass section. This would let your high pass amp cruise happily along. Can't argue with that can you?

Now if you want to get into whether or not bi-amping offers audible advantages in most real world scenarios.....no it doesn't, unless you go active bi-amping.

You're right though that this shouldn't be discussed here. However I had to interject some lodgic.

I don't think you know what bi-amping is if you don't think that it would prevent a clipped signal from damaging your tweeters if the amp that is clipping is driving your low pass section. This would let your high pass amp cruise happily along. Can't argue with that can you?

Now if you want to get into whether or not bi-amping offers audible advantages in most real world scenarios.....no it doesn't, unless you go active bi-amping.

You're right though that this shouldn't be discussed here. However I had to interject some lodgic.

Read the bi-amp thread, I've said numerous times to do this as it's way more knoledgable than me. The point you mention (as well as every other point you can think of) was brought up specifically as a potential benefit and knocked down as meaningless and useless.

I'm done posting on this topic in this thread.

Surrounds:

Ok, I know this subject has been discussed before many times, but now I have the manual for the Paradigm ADP590's and it says to use the ADP's not only for side surrounds but also for rear surrounds as well.

I know the general thought would be to have ADP's as side surrounds and use direct firing speakers for the rear surrounds.

Why would Paradigm's manual suggest not using direct firing speakers for surrounds and only ADP's? If I'm only using my speaker system for movies and not 5 or 7 channel music/stereo, why not use the ADP's all around?

Thanks

Surrounds:

Ok, I know this subject has been discussed before many times, but now I have the manual for the Paradigm ADP590's and it says to use the ADP's not only for side surrounds but also for rear surrounds as well.

I know the general thought would be to have ADP's as side surrounds and use direct firing speakers for the rear surrounds.

Why would Paradigm's manual suggest not using direct firing speakers for surrounds and only ADP's? If I'm only using my speaker system for movies and not 5 or 7 channel music/stereo, why not use the ADP's all around?

Thanks

It's up to you. THX recommends ADP-types for rears as well, as in theory it recreates the big-theater sound in a small room.

However, in practice, for many of us, it just creates a smear of sound behind us that is too non-directional. Many people prefer the directional sound, especially if you can do some speaker calibration so it's not overwhelming. You want to hear the bullet shooting over your left shoulder, or the plane moving from left to right behind you.

For multi-channel music it's even more preferred to have directionals for the rears (and sides I think), since you need to hear each sound and direction specifically.

In any case, it's ultimately up to what you like better. Just note than many of us have gone from ADP-type rears to directional rears, and I'm not aware of anyone who has gone the other way.

Surrounds:

Ok, I know this subject has been discussed before many times, but now I have the manual for the Paradigm ADP590's and it says to use the ADP's not only for side surrounds but also for rear surrounds as well.

I know the general thought would be to have ADP's as side surrounds and use direct firing speakers for the rear surrounds.

Why would Paradigm's manual suggest not using direct firing speakers for surrounds and only ADP's? If I'm only using my speaker system for movies and not 5 or 7 channel music/stereo, why not use the ADP's all around?

Thanks

My guess would be that they only recommend the ADPs for rear channels because they make no on-wall monopoles. The ADPs will suffice as rears, but they are not optimal because they will be radiating most of their sound along the back wall rather than from the back of the room to the front.

Surrounds:

Ok, I know this subject has been discussed before many times, but now I have the manual for the Paradigm ADP590's and it says to use the ADP's not only for side surrounds but also for rear surrounds as well.

I know the general thought would be to have ADP's as side surrounds and use direct firing speakers for the rear surrounds.

Why would Paradigm's manual suggest not using direct firing speakers for surrounds and only ADP's? If I'm only using my speaker system for movies and not 5 or 7 channel music/stereo, why not use the ADP's all around?

Thanks
Experiment personal preference beats a manuel every time.

And seriously, check out the bi-amping thread, it's worth the read if you care about this at all.

Yes but check out the biamp/biwire threads as some of Paradigm's arguments are spurious or self-serving.

I will check that thread out :o

Possibly Ordering Studio 20s v.4 today! I heard them in a local shop, and really enjoyed the sound. Only thing was, the tweeters on one was bent, and it wasn't the most ideal listening area, but I still really enjoyed them.

I would be crossing these with a HSU STF 2 subwoofer, and using as my Mains.

Two questions:

1: What does the break in time look like for these?

2: I've only auditioned a few in this price range such as B&W and RBH, am I jumping the gun here? Can anyone recommend any other comparable speakers? Thanks guys, and look forward to joining the Paradigm crew.

Possibly Ordering Studio 20s v.4 today! I heard them in a local shop, and really enjoyed the sound. Only thing was, the tweeters on one was bent, and it wasn't the most ideal listening area, but I still really enjoyed them.

I would be crossing these with a HSU STF 2 subwoofer, and using as my Mains.

Two questions:

1: What does the break in time look like for these?

2: I've only auditioned a few in this price range such as B&W and RBH, am I jumping the gun here? Can anyone recommend any other comparable speakers? Thanks guys, and look forward to joining the Paradigm family.
As soon as they reach room temperature after unpacking which should be an
hour or less.

2: I've only auditioned a few in this price range such as B&W and RBH, am I jumping the gun here? Can anyone recommend any other comparable speakers? Thanks guys, and look forward to joining the Paradigm crew.

You might consider auditioning the Sigs also. If you liked the 40's, you might like the S4's even more.

But once you find something that you love, you know it, so buy it. If you're not sure, keep listening.

You might consider auditioning the Sigs also. If you liked the 40's, you might like the S4's even more.

But once you find something that you love, you know it, so buy it. If you're not sure, keep listening.


I might like them better, but money may be a factor here... I am getting a great deal on the 20s, that is something also pushing my Purchase.

I really enjoyed the way they played rock and other recordings. Anyone else find this to be a strong point?

I might like them better, but money may be a factor here... I am getting a great deal on the 20s, that is something also pushing my Purchase.

I really enjoyed the way they played rock and other recordings. Anyone else find this to be a strong point?

I listen to everything on the studio's and like their diversity with all kinds of
music but I tend to listen to rock more.

Any audible difference would likely be a placebo effect. A seperate amp using your 8002 as the processor would probably make a big sound improvement. Just my opinion.

I bi-amped my 8002 with my Paradigm Monitor 7s, and I do notice a wider sound stage. Sorry, it's not a placebo effect, either. My wife even asked me what I tweaked.

I bi-amped my 8002 with my Paradigm Monitor 7s, and I do notice a wider sound stage. Sorry, it's not a placebo effect, either. My wife even asked me what I tweaked.

Okay... :rolleyes:

Found these pics, first time I have seen anything on the Paradigm Esprit .v4

Its a center, but thought I would post them here anyways.. stole the pics from ebay, they aren't that great but atleast you get the idea of build design... Thought it was interesting to see the back of them...

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/Esprit/f4dd_1.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/Esprit/f624_1.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/Esprit/f6de_1.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/Esprit/f7c4_1.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/Esprit/f865_1.jpg

Tonight I watched Mr. Brooks on Blu-Ray with my Denon 3808, S4, C3 and ADP-3s (all v2) and wow! The scenes with gunshots almost made me take a leak! The clarity, impact, and resonance was just unbelievable. Words can't describe it. They were certainly THE most life-like gunshots I've heard on my system to date. The surround effect was so good and #$# loud I was sure the neighbors were going to call the cops to report live shots fired in my house. LOL It was seriously that clear and life like..I'm still in awe. The sound track is in DTS-HD Master.

Great movie too..rent it! :)

Tonight I watched Mr. Brooks on Blu-Ray with my Denon 3808, S4, C3 and ADP-3s (all v2) and wow! The scenes with gunshots almost made me take a leak! The clarity, impact, and resonance was just unbelievable. Words can't describe it. They were certainly THE most life-like gunshots I've heard on my system to date. The surround effect was so good and #$# loud I was sure the neighbors were going to call the cops to report live shots fired in my house. LOL It was seriously that clear and life like..I'm still in awe. The sound track is in DTS-HD Master.

Great movie too..rent it! :)

What subwoofer do you have?

What subwoofer do you have?

SVS PB-12 Plus. But it wasn't the sub performance that made me almost take a leak. It was the mid to high frequency clarity that made my jaw drop to the floor with the realism. The percussion and 'bang' couldn't have been any more visceral.

Gotta love those precious little moments between you and your system... :)

SVS PB-12 Plus. But it wasn't the sub performance that made me almost take a leak. It was the mid to high frequency clarity that made my jaw drop to the floor with the realism. The percussion and 'bang' couldn't have been any more visceral.

Another surprise is when you play your favorite music it brings back the
interest quick.

Another surprise is when you play your favorite music it brings back the
interest quick.

That is so true! I'm listening to way more music since I upgraded my speakers (and sub) than before. It's suprising.

A friend of mine bought the Monitor 7's for front and the ADP-190's for surrounds. Yesterday we went to pick up a center and they recommended the CC-290 as the matching center channel. Wouldn't the CC-190 be a better match for his system? One of the reasons he went with the Monitor 7's is that he wants to keep everything fairly small. The CC-290 is almost the size of his fronts. Is the sales guy just tyring to make a dollar or is his recommendation a good one. Room size is approx 10'x10'. TIA

Since the Paradigm website says either can be used I would get the one I could
fit in the room the best for the stand that will be used.

just get the 390 and upgrade the 7's later to 9's :)

why not the 11's? thats the setup i have with mini monitors in the back!

why not the 11's? thats the setup i have with mini monitors in the back!

well.... then just get the studio 20's or 60's or the 100's and the 590 .... then on to the sigs .....and the upgrades never end....

The signauture 8's I received recently have the rare rosewood finish on them, I would like to preserve the gloss while protecting the finish does anyone know what can be used on these? I'm wondering since the finish seems to be furniture grade would something like pledge or some other over the counter wood polish be ok or is there somethng made especially for veneer speaker finishes.

The signauture 8's I received recently have the rare rosewood finish on them, I would like to preserve the gloss while protecting the finish does anyone know what can be used on these? I'm wondering since the finish seems to be furniture grade would something like pledge or some other over the counter wood polish be ok or is there somethng made especially for veneer speaker finishes.

Don't own the sigs but i have always had good luck with Pledge in very small
amounts remember a lot of moisture of any kind has a tendency to buckle
veneers.

Don't own the sigs but i have always had good luck with Pledge in very small
amounts remember a lot of moisture of any kind has a tendency to buckle
veneers.

Thanks for the info, its strange that there isnt more on this subject considering the amount of speakers out there with high quality finishes

Paradigm Studio/20 v.4 Review
http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/508para/index.html

well.... then just get the studio 20's or 60's or the 100's and the 590 .... then on to the sigs .....and the upgrades never end....

isnt that the point? lol j/k. the "itis" as a son of a "B"

Well, I'm down to deciding between a Paradigm Signature Reference V2 setup or an RBH Reference configuration

For the Paradigm, I can easily fit the S8's, but not the C5 center - only the C3. I doubt there would be a timbre match issue, but I'm seeking some feedback on this...

I can also do the S6, which may be more than I need since the use is almost exclusively movies and sports, and I'll be crossing over at 80 or 70 anyway to my subs...

So this is my comparison

Paradigm:
S8 L/R (possible S6)
C3 Center
ADP3 Side Surrounds
Rear surrounds - undecided; would prefer direct radiator, but not sure what to match here

RBH:
T-1/Reference L/C/R
66-SE/Reference Side Surrounds
SI-760/Reference Rear Surrounds

For those wondering how I could fit a T-1 as a center and not a C5 - it's the width. Mt center cabinet opening is 33 inches, and a T-1 on it's side is less than this - the C5 more...

Hey all,

Just got a pair of Studio 20s, love em! But can anyone recommend stands? Preferably not $300 the Paradigm stands? That's just too much IMO.

I was looking for something 27-29 inches, black, and sturdy!

What do you guys use? Thanks for the help.

Hey all,

Just got a pair of Studio 20s, love em! But can anyone recommend stands? Preferably not $300 the Paradigm stands? That's just too much IMO.

I was looking for something 27-29 inches, black, and sturdy!

What do you guys use? Thanks for the help.

I got the PARADIGM S-20'S but i wish i had spent the money and got the j-29's
they are way more stable and can be screwed to the bottom of the 20's.

I got the PARADIGM S-20'S but i wish i had spent the money and got the j-29's
they are way more stable and can be screwed to the bottom of the 20's.

I got the S4's and bought the J-23 and let me tell you they are worth the extra dough, I really like these stands, my only other thoughts were a beautiful glass stand but I couldn't screw the speakers to the stands then.

There are plenty of stands out there that are cheaper, but try to find something you can use the threaded inserts to mount the to... If you have to drill a hole in the stand thats OK...

Standsandmounts.com

Racksandstands.com

Just thought I would post the Signature Pricing I found recently, although I believe this is before the pricing increase recently...

The Signature v.2 lineup:
New Model! S1 – Two-driver 2-way bookshelf: 6-inch mid/bass, 1” P-Be; $1600/pr
S2 – Two driver 2-way bookshelf: 7-inch mid/bass, 1-inch P-Be; $2400/pr
S4 – Three driver 2.5-way bookshelf: 7-inch bass, 7-inch mid/bass, 1” P-Be; $3200/pr
New Model! S6 – Four-driver 3-way floorstanding: 2 x 7-inch bass, 7-inch mid/bass, 1” P-Be; $4500/pr
S8 – Six-driver 3-way floorstanding: 4 x 7-inch bass, 7-inch midrange, 1-inch P-Be; $6500/pr
New Model! C1 – Four-driver 3-way center: 2 x 5.5-inch, 5-inch mid/bass, 1-inch P-Be; $900/ea
C3 – Four-driver 3-way center: 2 x 7-inch bass, 5-inch mid/bass, 1-inch P-Be; $1800/ea
C5 – Six-driver 3.5-way center: 2 x 7-inch bass, 5-inch mid/bass, 1-inch P-Be; $3000/ea
New Model! W5 – Six driver 3.5-way on-wall: 2 x 7-inch bass, 2 x 7-inch mid/bass, 4.5-inch mid, 1-inch P-Be; $2800/ea
New Model! W5 C – Six-driver 3.5-way on-wall center: 2 x 7-inch bass, 2 x 7-inch mid/bass, 4.5-inch mid, 1-inch P-Be; $2800/ea
New Model! ADP1 – Five-driver 3-way surround: 7-inch bass, 2 x 3.5-inch mid, 2 x 1-inch P-Be; $900/ea
ADP3 – Five driver 3-way surround: 8’ bass, 2 x 4.5-inch mid, 2 x 1-inch P-Be; $1700/ea (FMV prices are in U.S. dollars. Birdseye Maple and Piano Black finishes slightly higher.)

Warpdrv - thanks for this, but as you note, this may not be accurate anymore - does anyone have current list pricing (why does Paradigm make this so difficult?).

The last sentence in warpdrv's post also implies that Cherry is the standard finish, and the other two will cost more. Just would like to confirm this...

Finally, I've been told that dealers get some crazy margins on the Signature line, something over 50% - and info on this? - I'd like to know my bargaining position...:)

Thanks

Well, I'm down to deciding between a Paradigm Signature Reference V2 setup or an RBH Reference configuration

For the Paradigm, I can easily fit the S8's, but not the C5 center - only the C3. I doubt there would be a timbre match issue, but I'm seeking some feedback on this...

I can also do the S6, which may be more than I need since the use is almost exclusively movies and sports, and I'll be crossing over at 80 or 70 anyway to my subs...

So this is my comparison

Paradigm:
S8 L/R (possible S6)
C3 Center
ADP3 Side Surrounds
Rear surrounds - undecided; would prefer direct radiator, but not sure what to match here

RBH:
T-1/Reference L/C/R
66-SE/Reference Side Surrounds
SI-760/Reference Rear Surrounds

For those wondering how I could fit a T-1 as a center and not a C5 - it's the width. Mt center cabinet opening is 33 inches, and a T-1 on it's side is less than this - the C5 more...

You know it's getting lonely when you quote yourself....

Anyway, Option A:
S8 L/R
C3 Center
ADP3 Side Surrounds
- in natural birdsyeye maple

or Option B
T-1/Reference L/C/R
66-SE/Reference Side Surrounds
- in basic black

...are available to me at almost the same package price (the Paradigm package would be $100 more)

Clearly the WAF would appreciate the Paradigms...I started this process of upgrading with the T-1's in mind, but the S8 are a pretty formidable alternative.

I've heard both (sort of - the T-1 non-reference versions. L/R only, and the Paradigm S8 V1, but with upgraded V2 tweeters, and a C5 center. Of course, both in different locations, the T-1 demo was fairly low tech as the dealer was in the middle of turning his shop upside down...)

Frankly, I dont even know what I'm posting here...just a public exposure of the private lament we all go through when we've spent 47 hours researching and still aren't sure...:eek:

You are correct thrang... I am not sure what the updated prices are...

I have never heard the RBH's, and I'm not sure why you would need 3 tweeters but it looks to me that the RBH's are made to be neatly tucked away out of sight behind screens. To me they certainly don't match the looks of a Paradigm Signature.

http://www.rbhsound.com/images/products/t1nogrill.gif
Or this

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/2889728-lg.jpg

Hmmmmm

You are correct thrang... I am not sure what the updated prices are...

I have never heard the RBH's, and I'm not sure why you would need 3 tweeters but it looks to me that the RBH's are made to be neatly tucked away out of sight behind screens. To me they certainly don't match the looks of a Paradigm Signature.

http://www.rbhsound.com/images/products/t1nogrill.gif
Or this

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/2889728-lg.jpg

Hmmmmm

Agreed about the esthetics.....but the T-1's are a visceral sonic experience...

Still, I'm 50/50 as of tonight...tomorrow I order...where's my dart board?:o

You are correct thrang... I am not sure what the updated prices are...

I have never heard the RBH's, and I'm not sure why you would need 3 tweeters but it looks to me that the RBH's are made to be neatly tucked away out of sight behind screens. To me they certainly don't match the looks of a Paradigm Signature.

http://www.rbhsound.com/images/products/t1nogrill.gif
Or this

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/2889728-lg.jpg

Hmmmmm

THIS is the T-1/R

http://www.rbhsound.com/press/CEDIA_2007/Signature_Series/T_System_%5BReference%5D/RBH_T-1R_MaplePommele_NG.jpg
(big deal, I know, but aren't the four phase plugs sexy....?:)

good stands for the Studio 20s?

http://www.standsandmounts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2004

Sanus 30 inch, anyone use these? Thanks guys!