THIS is the T-1/R

http://www.rbhsound.com/press/CEDIA_2007/Signature_Series/T_System_%5BReference%5D/RBH_T-1R_MaplePommele_NG.jpg
(big deal, I know, but aren't the four phase plugs sexy....?:)

If that is sexy you really need to get out more often. 4 holes and 4 pushed in breasts ain't sexy.

Is the white from the Bose color palette?

If that is sexy you really need to get out more often. 4 holes and 4 pushed in breasts ain't sexy.

Though not a bad weekend in Vegas....

Is the white from the Bose color palette?

I don't know what that color is, nor would I order it, but they offer 30 custom veneers besides basic black

Regardless, they are a phenomenal speaker, but certainly short on some esthetics.

But the Paradigms impress as well, so my dilemma. If I could fit a C5, I might be more apt to say done deal, but I can only do a C3, and thus the RBH T-1 provides me with the largest center option....

I suppose I would be fairly happy with either setup, so it may be a roll of the dice tomorrow...

Though not a bad weekend in Vegas....



I don't know what that color is, nor would I order it, but they offer 30 custom veneers besides basic black

Regardless, they are a phenomenal speaker, but certainly short on some esthetics.

But the Paradigms impress as well, so my dilemma. If I could fit a C5, I might be more apt to say done deal, but I can only do a C3, and thus the RBH T-1 provides me with the largest center option....

I suppose I would be fairly happy with either setup, so it may be a roll of the dice tomorrow...

Save the dice roll for Vegas:)

But the Paradigms impress as well, so my dilemma. If I could fit a C5, I might be more apt to say done deal, but I can only do a C3, and thus the RBH T-1 provides me with the largest center option....

I suppose I would be fairly happy with either setup, so it may be a roll of the dice tomorrow...

Hey.... Quick question for you... do you have a moped...?
I prefer sleek and sexy, but hey... to each their own... :)

Seriously though... take a camera and write down some of your thoughts.... Let us know what you think about the sound differences you notice, as I have been curious about the RBH's but don't have the means to audition anywhere around here...

Oh and don't forget.... Have a great time, thats what its all about...

If that is sexy you really need to get out more often. 4 holes and 4 pushed in breasts ain't sexy

As for looks......

I like the RBH way better then the Paradigm Signature because it looks well built, I like those drivers and its different...The Paradigm is BORING, same old floor designs that we have seen since the college days.

Thrang:

When you say that the T-1's are a "visceral sonic experience" can you elaborate? How does the T-1's sonic experience differ from the S8's? From what I can tell, your use for either the Paradigm S8's or the RBH T-1's would be more for home theater use. I was visiting the RBH home page and I saw the T-1's sitting on top of dual 10" subs and they look like they could kill for home theater.

I've been heavily leaning towards the S8's. The looks are awesome and so is the sound, but I would also think the T-1's in a different color would be acceptable if the sound was top notch. My use is more for home theater and I have to admit I've checked out the RBH series and even though I have not heard them, I can picture the RBH being incredible for home theater use. Honestly, I wouldn't care if speakers were metallic orange if they gave me the sound that I wanted.

As for looks......

I like the RBH way better then the Paradigm Signature because it looks well built, I like those drivers and its different...The Paradigm is BORING, same old floor designs that we have seen since the college days.

What could be more boring than a shoe box look with drivers in it?

Thrang:

When you say that the T-1's are a "visceral sonic experience" can you elaborate? How does the T-1's sonic experience differ from the S8's? From what I can tell, your use for either the Paradigm S8's or the RBH T-1's would be more for home theater use. I was visiting the RBH home page and I saw the T-1's sitting on top of dual 10" subs and they look like they could kill for home theater.

I've been heavily leaning towards the S8's. The looks are awesome and so is the sound, but I would also think the T-1's in a different color would be acceptable if the sound was top notch. My use is more for home theater and I have to admit I've checked out the RBH series and even though I have not heard them, I can picture the RBH being incredible for home theater use. Honestly, I wouldn't care if speakers were metallic orange if they gave me the sound that I wanted.

Well, for years, I've been looking for a speaker that could provide the fullness and thrush that made you feel you were in a real theater (and yes, I know there is more to that kind of experience than just the speakers). And when I heard the T-1/1010 combo the first time, though not in an ideal setup, playing a scene from King Kong, I had that experience. I may be not describing it correctly, but there was a depth to the soundstage that seemed to envelop me from front to back (and mind you, there were no surrounds or center hooked up for this dirty demo) as well still delivering an articulate, wide soundstage. Sonic elements that had quick attack, volume, and mass struck with strain and grain-free impact and weight.

I'm not a speaker designer, so I can't begin to ascertain the positive and negative's of any one design approach - I understand that multiple tweeters can be difficult to do, but if done right, and with the right seating distance, they are highly effective. [The standard (non-reference) T-1 tweeters are Vifa, an the Reference tweeter are ScanSpeak, which are slightly less bright, but have much dynamic performance and power handling, according to RBH] For RBH, I'm assuming the multiple reference driver's allow louder and more dynamic playback, along with the benefit of the larger cabinet volume.

The use of the T-1 as a center has one caveat besides whether you can fit its size - it's horizontal dispersion axis is about 15-20 degrees off the left and right edge of each outside tweeter. I'm about 14 or 15 feet away, with one row of four seats, so I'm pretty much ok.

As far as your question comparing to the S8's - the S8's v2 were demoed in a much more controlled, "proper" environment, with matching C5 center and ADP1 surrounds and did sound great, which is why I'm still considering them - but given the poor set-up of the T-1 system and the fact that I was still highly impressed with them makes me wonder, in a proper set-up, how much better the experience would be. Even given the demo facility differences, I would give the nod to the RBH's for dynamic impact and clarity, with the S8 a close second. The Paradigm's win on looks however, and I wonder if future resale value would be better if only because they are more well known.

Remember that the T-1's alone won't cut it - you need a pair of their 1010 subs and associated external amps, OR your own subwoofer(s). The S8 is ful range for music, so you are "getting more speaker" in that respect, though for those of us concerned mostly with HT, I think we might be crossing at 80 or 70 anyway for optimal soundtrack performance.

This is the problem we all face if we want to actually compare systems - no one typically has all the set-up's you would like to hear, demo facilities and processors/amps vary wildly, and this becomes and expensive guessing game.

The first time I heard the S8's in a different facility, I wasn't impressed. I then discovered that were driving them with a cheap $700 Yamaha receiver.

IMO, RBH speakers are all bright and thin sounding, and they measure that way too. YMMV.

IMO, RBH speakers are all bright and thin sounding, and they measure that way too. YMMV.

I think the non-reference drivers might be a tad bright, but the reference ScanSpeak drivers are designed to roll off earlier, and do - I had a pair of 661-SE/R's to demo, and they were noticeably more restrained than a pair of DefTech Mythos ST's for example. Unfortunately, I could not do a side by side comparisons with the Sigs...

Hi,
Would I damage the crossover inside CC-590 by flipping it over and placing on top of my tube television? Thank you.

Hi,
Would I damage the crossover inside CC-590 by flipping it over and placing on top of my tube television? Thank you.

No and its shielded so it should not have any affects on the crt.

The only problem the "P" logo is now upside down and I can't adjust the grille since it has a hole inside for the tweeter.

Hi,

I just bought a pair of Studio 60 V4 with a CC-590 V4 for my HT. My sub will be a SVS 20-39 PC-Plus.

For some reasons (no back wall, left-side wall with big window/curtain and very close to seating position and right-side wall far away from seating position) I have to go in-ceiling for the side surrounds and back surrounds (looking for 7.1 here).

I'm more interested in a direct-radiating solution and therefore, the ADP’s were not my first choice anyway. I have not read many posts about using the SA series for surround, and since I'm especially looking at the SA-15R, SA-15R-SM and SA-15R-30, I would like to hear about people with experience using any combination of them as surround speakers.

Many thanks in advance,

Stéphane

Hi,

I just bought a pair of Studio 60 V5 with a CC-590 V5 for my HT. My sub will be a SVS 20-39 PC-Plus.

For some reasons (no back wall, left-side wall with big window/curtain and very close to seating position and right-side wall far away from seating position) I have to go in-ceiling for the side surrounds and back surrounds (looking for 7.1 here).

I'm more interested in a direct-radiating solution and therefore, the ADP’s were not my first choice anyway. I have not read many posts about using the SA series for surround, and since I'm especially looking at the SA-15R, SA-15R-SM and SA-15R-30, I would like to hear about people with experience using any combination of them as surround speakers.

Many thanks in advance,

Stéphane


V4's???

Hi,

I just bought a pair of Studio 60 V5 with a CC-590 V5 for my HT. My sub will be a SVS 20-39 PC-Plus.

For some reasons (no back wall, left-side wall with big window/curtain and very close to seating position and right-side wall far away from seating position) I have to go in-ceiling for the side surrounds and back surrounds (looking for 7.1 here).

I'm more interested in a direct-radiating solution and therefore, the ADP’s were not my first choice anyway. I have not read many posts about using the SA series for surround, and since I'm especially looking at the SA-15R, SA-15R-SM and SA-15R-30, I would like to hear about people with experience using any combination of them as surround speakers.

Many thanks in advance,

Stéphane

If the SA series was a enclosed designed speaker, then I would say you shouldn't have any problems integrating them into the system and the dynamics should work out just fine, although I'm not sure whether or not they have implemented a closed back design into the SA series... For those who are in the know, please correct me if I'm wrong here...

IMO although they utilize the same drivers as the Studio line, an open back design will not reach the clarity, nor the output levels or performance of a fully sealed speaker. They just don't voice the same...

I looked into it quite extensively and found that the drawbacks were to great for a high spl type system that I seem to push my HT at... If your not looking for really high performance and increased SPL's I think you would be fine, but anything more they would bleed into the wall cavity and lack in performance.... of coarse YMMV

If the SA series was a enclosed designed speaker, then I would say you shouldn't have any problems integrating them into the system and the dynamics should work out just fine, although I'm not sure whether or not they have implemented a closed back design into the SA series... For those who are in the know, please correct me if I'm wrong here...

IMO although they utilize the same drivers as the Studio line, an open back design will not reach the clarity, nor the output levels or performance of a fully sealed speaker. They just don't voice the same...

I looked into it quite extensively and found that the drawbacks were to great for a high spl type system that I seem to push my HT at... If your not looking for really high performance and increased SPL's I think you would be fine, but anything more they would bleed into the wall cavity and lack in performance.... of coarse YMMV

i'd have to agree. if it were myself id look to any possible option besides ceiling and walls. this is my opinion but when i think of high performance speakers (towers, bookshelf, subs, etc.) CABINET design is a HUGE factor!!!

I understand and tend to agree. I looked to other solutions and believe me, I wanted to avoid speakers with open enclosures. I seriously looked at Triads but I wanted an horizontal CC without lobbing effect in the midrange, hence the CC-590.

Since I'm not looking for increased SPL, Warpdrv seems to think I will be fine, although I would miss some clarity. I'm also looking at some Dynabox (http://www.dynamat.com/products_architectural_dynabox.html). I know that an in-ceiling speakers should be designed from the ground up with their very own enclosure to optimize sound but maybe this "patch" could help...

And yeah, I meant V4's... :o Many thanks for your input!

Regards

Stéphane

i'd have to agree. if it were myself id look to any possible option besides ceiling and walls. this is my opinion but when i think of high performance speakers (towers, bookshelf, subs, etc.) CABINET design is a HUGE factor!!!

I have read that some of the Paradigm inwalls have (I think) recently been engineered to include back boxes... But I hate to say it might be the Sigs... I would really like to think the availability is there for the Studio's but am unsure...

Please consult your dealer if possible, if you find out some new info, It would be great for other peoples knowledge base here on some of the tight lipped info coming from Paradigm about some of these features for future possibilities.... or at least it isn't made readily available....

A member from another forum had a mishap with his tweeter, movers smashed his new BE Tweeter and grills on his Sig S8's... here are a few pics of his replacement experience... Thought it might be useful to share the pics here in the Paradigm Thread...

I felt really bad for him...
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5821&d=1210189573
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5822&d=1210189585

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5945&d=1213423458
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5946&d=1213423487
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5947&d=1213423516
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5948&d=1213423535
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5949&d=1213423553

Thrang:

I have to admit that the RBH setup with the double 10" subs looks like it could be a killer home theater speaker setup.

The Paradigm Signatures do have it beat in the cosmetic category though.

Have you considered the Paradigm Studio line? I heard a very nice setup with the paradigm Studio 100's, CC690, ADP590 and a couple of the Paradigm Subs and was very impressed with the powerful sound and "movie like" experience. There is a very good review on this same setup at www.avrev.com that I found very helpful

Even though I would love to have the Signature 8's and C5, My use for speakers would be primarily for home theater and I have to say that that Paradigm Studio setup was very impressive to me at a much lower cost than a similar setup using the Signature speakers.

Jimmy

Thrang:

I have to admit that the RBH setup with the double 10" subs looks like it could be a killer home theater speaker setup.

The Paradigm Signatures do have it beat in the cosmetic category though.

Have you considered the Paradigm Studio line? I heard a very nice setup with the paradigm Studio 100's, CC690, ADP590 and a couple of the Paradigm Subs and was very impressed with the powerful sound and "movie like" experience. There is a very good review on this same setup at www.avrev.com that I found very helpful

Even though I would love to have the Signature 8's and C5, My use for speakers would be primarily for home theater and I have to say that that Paradigm Studio setup was very impressive to me at a much lower cost than a similar setup using the Signature speakers.

Jimmy

I did listen to the Studio line in one dealership - not a great demo set-up so it was heard to gauge, but it did seem very good considering the variables.

Still, I went with my original instinct and decided on the RBH set-up - three T-1/Reference for LCR, 66-SE dipole for sides, and 61-SE direct radiating for rears. i should have them next week, and will post in the RBH owner's thread my thoughts and photos

Thanks for the help in this thread

I need some help with pricing.
I am looking for a price estimate (Midwest/Ohio pricing) for a 7.1 Monitor series set-up. The nearest dealers are an hour away from me and before I make the trip, I want to make sure that the pricing will be in-line with my budget. Here is what I am looking at:
(1) Pair of Mini Monitors=fronts
(1) CC-290 or 390 (god, please let the 390 fit in the budget:))
(2) Pairs of Atom Monitors=rear/side surround
Thanks in advance for any help.

Pricing (retail)
http://www.audioemporium.com/2008catalog.pdf

Warp, should I expect to see any type of discount from those prices? A 15% discount would put those w/ the 390 right in my budget. Although, I suppose the 390 might be a bit of overkill with Mini's as fronts, what do you think? I'm just looking for a large 3 way center to really enhance the movie experience. I feel the center and sub are the key points and I have a great sub (eD A2-300) that destroys my small HT with beautiful sounding lows.

which bookshelf monitor sound the best. titan are mini. the reason i ask because i have a pair of titan but havent played it yet because one xover board is broke and i getting one ordered. I wish i had the money to go to the studio line and where can I find stands for these baby.

which bookshelf monitor sound the best. titan are mini. the reason i ask because i have a pair of titan but havent played it yet because one xover board is broke and i getting one ordered. I wish i had the money to go to the studio line and where can I find stands for these baby.

the titans should sound great. my minis sound great so thats just an assumption. as for a stands, i ordered sanus 24" from amazon and theyre working fine.

the titans should sound great. my minis sound great so thats just an assumption. as for a stands, i ordered sanus 24" from amazon and theyre working fine.

thank alot. the reason i ask cause i thought i read somewhere that the mini were just as good and it was a waste going to at least the titans

Warp, should I expect to see any type of discount from those prices? A 15% discount would put those w/ the 390 right in my budget. Although, I suppose the 390 might be a bit of overkill with Mini's as fronts, what do you think? I'm just looking for a large 3 way center to really enhance the movie experience. I feel the center and sub are the key points and I have a great sub (eD A2-300) that destroys my small HT with beautiful sounding lows.

All depends on how much you spend. With a full Sig setup, expect 15-20%. With Studios, expect 10-15%. With everything else, expect 0-10%.

All depends on how much you spend. With a full Sig setup, expect 15-20%. With Studios, expect 10-15%. With everything else, expect 0-10%.

Or buy second hand for up to 50% off. :)

Check in this forum also members upgrade quite frequently.

i recently was given a slightly older paradigm cc-100 centre channel. my knowledge of speakers is honestly mediocre at best.

i'm on a tight budget and just wanna get some good L/R channels for it, anyone wanna throw a suggestion out?

i recently was given a slightly older paradigm cc-100 centre channel. my knowledge of speakers is honestly mediocre at best.

i'm on a tight budget and just wanna get some good L/R channels for it, anyone wanna throw a suggestion out?

Keep all the speakers matched brand and model line and it will sound better.

Warp, should I expect to see any type of discount from those prices? A 15% discount would put those w/ the 390 right in my budget. Although, I suppose the 390 might be a bit of overkill with Mini's as fronts, what do you think? I'm just looking for a large 3 way center to really enhance the movie experience. I feel the center and sub are the key points and I have a great sub (eD A2-300) that destroys my small HT with beautiful sounding lows.

Or buy second hand for up to 50% off. :)


yngdiego's got your back here.... tons and tons of places to go to get them used and for a far better price.... Thats what both of us ended up doing and got Sigs for Studio pricing...

So ultimately, my suggestion is to look on Audiogon, Ebay, and Videogon as well...

thank alot. the reason i ask cause i thought i read somewhere that the mini were just as good and it was a waste going to at least the titans

yup. that seems to be the general populations opinion. thats the only reason i went for the mini's. i was all about the titans but i dont know how much the performance would make up for the size diff. mine look awesome on 24" sanus stands and i have no regrets!!! saved a souple buck too!

Are there any Paradigm dealers on here. I hope I'm not violating any rules.

Are there any Paradigm dealers on here. I hope I'm not violating any rules.

The only guy that is a dealer is ginovino....

You can only buy new from a dealer in your local area, go to the Paradigm site and use the dealer locater tool to find the closest to you...

Where do you live, maybe someone here can direct you to something close by.

The only guy that is a dealer is ginovino....

You can only buy new from a dealer in your local area, go to the Paradigm site and use the dealer locater tool to find the closest to you...

Where do you live, maybe someone here can direct you to something close by.

I live in Alabama and the nearest one is in Montgomery which is about 60 miles. Maybe I'll take a trip Friday when Im off.

Call ahead and find out exactly what they have available before you waste your time driving, I have found many dealers don't actually have full setups of what your interested in... nothing worse then driving for nothing... :)

Call ahead and find out exactly what they have available before you waste your time driving, I have found many dealers don't actually have full setups of what your interested in... nothing worse then driving for nothing... :)

yeah I know wit the way gas prices are. I call once before about 3 or 4 months ago and i knew they had a least the monitor line and i think they would have to order the other i think. Maybe they did have the studios but like you said, i will call if i can eva get off work on time.

Brand Spankin New Member to the Paradigm Family :D

Thanks for all the help guys. I cruised on down to Dublin, Ohio (Home of Wendy's) tonight, to Audio Encounters and picked up a full 7.0 Monitor v.5 set-up. CC-290, Mini's as fronts and (4) Atoms for side and rear. Got that 15% discount I was aiming for and I was sold.

Very nice sounding speakers. I was amazed at the bass output from the Mini's in a wide open showroom floor and very clear highs pumping out of them. I can't wait to hear these in my teenie tiny theater. They performed beautifully on both Diana Krall (their disc) and Rammstein (my disc :D)

Now the Bummer....I stopped at 7 different stores on my way home and could not find reasonably priced 31" speaker stands. CC had some Omni-Mount stands that were perfect...but only 1 pair in stock of course and I need 2 pair.

Thanks again guys and check out this adorable pic. My wife did not approve of my purchase, but my daughter surely did :)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23985941@N04/2586110508/

Brand Spankin New Member to the Paradigm Family :D

Thanks for all the help guys. I cruised on down to Dublin, Ohio (Home of Wendy's) tonight, to Audio Encounters and picked up a full 7.0 Monitor v.5 set-up. CC-290, Mini's as fronts and (4) Atoms for side and rear. Got that 15% discount I was aiming for and I was sold.

Very nice sounding speakers. I was amazed at the bass output from the Mini's in a wide open showroom floor and very clear highs pumping out of them. I can't wait to hear these in my teenie tiny theater. They performed beautifully on both Diana Krall (their disc) and Rammstein (my disc :D)

Now the Bummer....I stopped at 7 different stores on my way home and could not find reasonably priced 31" speaker stands. CC had some Omni-Mount stands that were perfect...but only 1 pair in stock of course and I need 2 pair.

Thanks again guys and check out this adorable pic. My wife did not approve of my purchase, but my daughter surely did :)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23985941@N04/2586110508/

Congrats OhioMike.... I'm sure you will love your new system...

Also, keep in mind that just over in Girard OH, is SVS Subwoofers, only 2 hours away, home of some of the finest Subs available to HT enthusiasts today... So if you are in need of an amazing Subwoofer, check them out.
That will save you money on shipping as well...
www.svsound.com (http://www.svsound.com)


BTW, for speaker stands.... check out rackandstands.com or standsandmounts.com

Thanks, Warp. I have unfortunately been in the Youngstown/Girard area many a time ;)...But eD already got my money and my loyalty. The A2-300 is amazing for the money :)

Brand Spankin New Member to the Paradigm Family :D

Thanks for all the help guys. I cruised on down to Dublin, Ohio (Home of Wendy's) tonight, to Audio Encounters and picked up a full 7.0 Monitor v.5 set-up. CC-290, Mini's as fronts and (4) Atoms for side and rear. Got that 15% discount I was aiming for and I was sold.

Very nice sounding speakers. I was amazed at the bass output from the Mini's in a wide open showroom floor and very clear highs pumping out of them. I can't wait to hear these in my teenie tiny theater. They performed beautifully on both Diana Krall (their disc) and Rammstein (my disc :D)

Now the Bummer....I stopped at 7 different stores on my way home and could not find reasonably priced 31" speaker stands. CC had some Omni-Mount stands that were perfect...but only 1 pair in stock of course and I need 2 pair.

Thanks again guys and check out this adorable pic. My wife did not approve of my purchase, but my daughter surely did :)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23985941@N04/2586110508/

There are so many dealers of good stands that would be under $150pr just take the time and google them...

There are so many dealers of good stands that would be under $150pr just take the time and google them...

Yeah, there are many to choose from even on Amazon at my price point. I just really wanted to get these bad boys running tomorrow :(...Patience is a virtue, right?

Brand Spankin New Member to the Paradigm Family :D

Thanks for all the help guys. I cruised on down to Dublin, Ohio (Home of Wendy's) tonight, to Audio Encounters and picked up a full 7.0 Monitor v.5 set-up. CC-290, Mini's as fronts and (4) Atoms for side and rear. Got that 15% discount I was aiming for and I was sold.

Very nice sounding speakers. I was amazed at the bass output from the Mini's in a wide open showroom floor and very clear highs pumping out of them. I can't wait to hear these in my teenie tiny theater. They performed beautifully on both Diana Krall (their disc) and Rammstein (my disc :D)

Now the Bummer....I stopped at 7 different stores on my way home and could not find reasonably priced 31" speaker stands. CC had some Omni-Mount stands that were perfect...but only 1 pair in stock of course and I need 2 pair.

Thanks again guys and check out this adorable pic. My wife did not approve of my purchase, but my daughter surely did :)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23985941@N04/2586110508/

I hate you for this!! LOL NICE PURCHASE!!!!

I hate you for this!! LOL NICE PURCHASE!!!!

You and my wife have something in common this morning :D:(

You and my wife have something in common this morning :D:(

Ah!!! Come on!!! I guess we are both good looking!!:D

Call ahead and find out exactly what they have available before you waste your time driving, I have found many dealers don't actually have full setups of what your interested in... nothing worse then driving for nothing... :)

Does Paradigm have a "consumer/public" showroom at their offices or plant tour? I figure they have something for Dealers, but since its near impossible to find anything you can put your ears on, I thought I'd ask.

Did the Signature W5, W5C ever show up anywhere?

Well, I ordered some stands from Amazon and thanks to Prime, I'll have them tomorrow. I posted some preliminary pics to my sig of the CC-290 and of my new Franken-speaker creation from my now remnant Polk's :D...it's just for fun. I'll hopefully get all of the new set-up pics posted tomorrow or Thursday. I can't wait to fire these babies up and get them broken in a bit.

Well, I ordered some stands from Amazon and thanks to Prime, I'll have them tomorrow. I posted some preliminary pics to my sig of the CC-290 and of my new Franken-speaker creation from my now remnant Polk's :D...it's just for fun. I'll hopefully get all of the new set-up pics posted tomorrow or Thursday. I can't wait to fire these babies up and get them broken in a bit.

Congrats on the new speakers OhioMike; you have upgraded from the same polk speakers that I did. (my fronts were monitor 60's).

I suspect 1 of the most noticeable improvements with your new Paradigms will be a great improvement in clarity and detail.:)

that is exactly what I was looking to improve. There was a huge lack of seperation in the Polks, everything just tended to mush together.
I got my stands tonight and I am in the process of getting everything set-up, but bed-time is approaching, so I will have to try to finish it up tomorrow. Only thing really left to do is to put together the pedestal bases I am putting together to go under the rear surround stands. 31" stands just aren't tall enough and the 48" were double the price, so I found $4.00 per stand solution. We shall see how it all pans out.

that is exactly what I was looking to improve. There was a huge lack of seperation in the Polks, everything just tended to mush together.


Agree with you totally there, I found them to be muddy.

I'm still waiting for my new center, running the cs1 polk between studio 100's....totally outclassed:eek:

Well hopefully I can get my xover for my titans friday or saturday and join the club.

hi, i went and listened to some paradigm speakers and really liked them, i mainly listened to the monitor 7. was very nice. i asked the guy what he would recommend for a whole setup, we decided on the monitor 7 for the front, ADP-190 for the rear, and CC-190 for center. im going to be doing my own sub, and am going to look at some recievers soon. the price he gave me was $683 pair for the 7's, $449 pair for the 190's, and $270 for the center.i havnt bought anything yet. Im just wondering if this is a good setup and a good price. its been 10 years since i last bought any speakers and its time to upgrade, just trying to make sure i do it right without spending too much money. any thoughts? thanks

That is a pretty good price DSG, he knocked 10% off the list price. I did get 15% off from my dealer, so you might see if you can get out for a little less than the current offer. Maybe tell them that you really wanted to get out the door for $1400, currently $1402 before tax, to see if they will go down to $1300 + tax. Worth a shot, maybe he will at least go down to $1350.

Have a centre CC-690, Servo 15 and am considering the Studio 100s to finish my HT speaker upgrade. Any comments on this front combo?

John

Have a centre CC-690, Servo 15 and am considering the Studio 100s to finish my HT speaker upgrade. Any comments on this front combo?

John


Yes.... there great.... I love mine...

As Warpdrv said they are great .

Have a centre CC-690, Servo 15 and am considering the Studio 100s to finish my HT speaker upgrade. Any comments on this front combo?

John

Get them you won't be disappointed, just added the Servo 15 last night to my setup :D

Hey guys,

I have done some listening recently and am very interested in the Signature v2s, but I noticed that there are no posted measurements on any model except for the S1s, which are somewhat different in construction than its siblings. The reviews I've read so far on the S6s and S8s have been very good, but none offer any type of measurement. This is strange, given that the v1 charts were readily available.

*UPDATE*
Hey Guys, I got my system all put together last night and have posted the new pics to my link in my sig.
*First Impression*
These Monitor v.5's are an amazing value. They have truly blown away my Polk Monitor series in every way. The detail and seperation is terrific along with a great mid-range punch. I can hear the zips across guitar strings like never before and the complete range of the drum kit comes across beautifully. I believe that these speakers could easily compete with speakers that are twice the price. They blend in quite nicely with my eD A2-300 as well, it is an extremely potent combination.
I cannot wait until these are fully broken in a few weeks from now, they should be simply outstanding at that point. I would highly recommend these to anyone looking for a 5.0 or 7.0 system in the $1200-$1500 range.

*UPDATE*
Hey Guys, I got my system all put together last night and have posted the new pics to my link in my sig.
*First Impression*
These Monitor v.5's are an amazing value. They have truly blown away my Polk Monitor series in every way. The detail and seperation is terrific along with a great mid-range punch. I can hear the zips across guitar strings like never before and the complete range of the drum kit comes across beautifully. I believe that these speakers could easily compete with speakers that are twice the price. They blend in quite nicely with my eD A2-300 as well, it is an extremely potent combination.
I cannot wait until these are fully broken in a few weeks from now, they should be simply outstanding at that point. I would highly recommend these to anyone looking for a 5.0 or 7.0 system in the $1200-$1500 range.

I would be glad when I get my xover in a couple of days but today I got my cc-290 and i plug it up and it seems to have more clarity, depth, detail, punch, kisses, hugs,love handles......you get the point!!!!:D

Second week in July will see the 100s at the helm:D
John

Anyone have any experience with the Titan v5's? I just purchased these from my local dealer for $510 in rosewood and after demoing the Revel M12's, Paradigm Mini Monitors and Atoms, I'm was very satisfied with the Titans.

good stands for the Studio 20s?

http://www.standsandmounts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2004

Sanus 30 inch, anyone use these? Thanks guys!

I use the Sanus 30 inch "natural foundations" in black. Great for my studio 20s:

http://ericbeth.home.comcast.net/~ericbeth/screen.jpg

I joined the Reference Family today. I am now the proud papa of

Studio 100s
CC 690
ADP 590

Paired with my soon to be arriving

SVS PB 13-Ultra

Thank yoiu Warpdrv for all of your help.

Now I need to bite the bullet on a receiver/amp combo.

I joined the Reference Family today. I am now the proud papa of

Studio 100s
CC 690
ADP 590

Paired with my soon to be arriving

SVS PB 13-Ultra

Thank yoiu Warpdrv for all of your help.

Now I need to bite the bullet on a receiver/amp combo.

that is my exact setup, with a yamaha pre/rotel amp driving them. let us know what you decide about the amp, i'm always up for something different to listen to. that setup should be downright nasty, as i know i love mine! warp helped me out a bunch, too. seems like he has set us all on the right path:D

I joined the Reference Family today. I am now the proud papa of

Studio 100s
CC 690
ADP 590

Paired with my soon to be arriving

SVS PB 13-Ultra

Thank yoiu Warpdrv for all of your help.

Now I need to bite the bullet on a receiver/amp combo.

Nice setup! I almost got that exact combo (except with the CC690).

You'll love the PB13-Ultra, it's amazing (and large).

For an amp, you might consider the Anthem amps. They sound very nice and are the real deal. You might also consider the Anthem pre-pros, also very nice (but still missing 7-channel over HDMI, which is an issue for me). They have a "regular" version and a "Statement" version.

Nice setup! I almost got that exact combo (except with the CC690).

You'll love the PB13-Ultra, it's amazing (and large).

For an amp, you might consider the Anthem amps. They sound very nice and are the real deal. You might also consider the Anthem pre-pros, also very nice (but still missing 7-channel over HDMI, which is an issue for me). They have a "regular" version and a "Statement" version.

Personally I found the Anthem to be incredibly revealing... almost bright IMO... But I would imagine that all depends on the room... AbMagFab, your room is heavily treated, so that would definitely have a huge impact on how that amp will present itself...
I commend you for going that extra mile for doing you homework first and taking the time to treat your room !!
ROOM TREATMENTS ----- THE MOST IMPORTANT UPGRADE ONE COULD POSSIBLY MAKE !!!!!

If anyone else is reading here... AbMagFab went above and beyond the call of duty to bring everything in his HT together with Acoustic Treatments !!! One of the most important upgrades you can do for your room is Acoustic Treatments... !!!!

Is there any internet retailer offering Paradigm speakers anywhere?

i think i may invest in a pre/pro once they come out with the new features that are necessary. the ones i am interested in are the sunfire, b&k, and i can't help but throw in emotiva. for the price, the free in home test period, and the looks they are at least worth a glance, right? anyone with any experience with one of these driving the studio line?

i think i may invest in a pre/pro once they come out with the new features that are necessary. the ones i am interested in are the sunfire, b&k, and i can't help but throw in emotiva. for the price, the free in home test period, and the looks they are at least worth a glance, right? anyone with any experience with one of these driving the studio line?

New member of the Paradigm family here :D
I'm powering my new Studio 60's with a Emo XPA-5 now. And I have no complaints what so ever. I'll be getting the CC-690 in about a week or so, and then the ADP-590's in Aug. My room is on the smallish side 9' x 11' so this amp is more than enough for insane levels. The room is line with thick panel drapes and 4' acoustic panels. For the price, this amp is everything I could have asked for and more. (Not going to throw out a bunch of techno babble as I'm not good at it anyway)

Not saying that it is right for you, but the XPA-5 is working out nicely for me.

Is there any internet retailer offering Paradigm speakers anywhere?

This is the only one I know of, but I'm sure there are some more.
http://www.6ave.com/shop/searchresults.aspx?mnm=Paradigm

This is the only one I know of, but I'm sure there are some more.
http://www.6ave.com/shop/searchresults.aspx?mnm=Paradigm

Unfortunately, Authorized Paradigm Dealers will not sell their products over the internet. 6th Ave would not even give me a price, they told me I had to come into the store.

Nice setup! I almost got that exact combo (except with the CC690).

You'll love the PB13-Ultra, it's amazing (and large).

For an amp, you might consider the Anthem amps. They sound very nice and are the real deal. You might also consider the Anthem pre-pros, also very nice (but still missing 7-channel over HDMI, which is an issue for me). They have a "regular" version and a "Statement" version.


My budget has been blown with the speakers. Anthem is a little too pricey for me. Right now, I'm thinking of getting a receiver/amp combo for around $1500.

For example: Elite 92 + Emotiva XPA 5 (or even the XPA 3)
or Pioneer 1018 + Amp.

My dealer tried very hard to sell me a Marantz 5002 (+ Anthem Amp). He told me I needed a receiver with a high S/N ratio. The S/N is 105 db for the Marantz products, which by the way he absolutely loves.

The 5002 does not decode the new HD codecs, which I would like.

This is the part that's killing me....:confused:

My budget has been blown with the speakers. Anthem is a little too pricey for me. Right now, I'm thinking of getting a receiver/amp combo for around $1500.

For example: Elite 92 + Emotiva XPA 5 (or even the XPA 3)
or Pioneer 1018 + Amp.

My dealer tried very hard to sell me a Marantz 5002 (+ Anthem Amp). He told me I needed a receiver with a high S/N ratio. The S/N is 105 db for the Marantz products, which by the way he absolutely loves.

The 5002 does not decode the new HD codecs, which I would like.

This is the part that's killing me....:confused:

As long as it supports 7.1 multi-channel LPCM, the HD bitstream decoding doesn't matter - it's identical sound. You just need to make sure you get a BD player that decodes internally (most do at this point I think).

Ok I have not been on here in a while, but I can't believe what I just heard.
The Paradigm Studio v4 are getting cleared out already!
If this is old news I apologize, but I was so suprised.
This has to be the shortest version run on record.
All the studio stuff at my local store was slashed in price so I asked what was going on and he told me that the V5's are coming soon so they are clearing out.
Hope this info helps for all who are building a v4 system (I have not finished my v3 yet)
This is the info as I received it by a Canadian dealer, if I was misinformed by him, feel free to put me straight.
Regards
Knights of Ni

Ok I have not been on here in a while, but I can't believe what I just heard.
The Paradigm Studio v4 are getting cleared out already!
If this is old news I apologize, but I was so suprised.
This has to be the shortest version run on record.
All the studio stuff at my local store was slashed in price so I asked what was going on and he told me that the V5's are coming soon so they are clearing out.
Hope this info helps for all who are building a v4 system (I have not finished my v3 yet)
This is the info as I received it by a Canadian dealer, if I was misinformed by him, feel free to put me straight.
Regards
Knights of Ni


I am looking to buy the studio series and this is what I was quoted.

studio 100 -$2400/pair
cc690-$1199
adp590 $600 a pair

Are these good prices or should I expect better given that the v4 is being phased out?

If the .v4's are being phased out, thats news to me...

The new lines were just released end of '06
Monitor .v5
Studio .v4
Signature .v2

Paradigm generally runs a 3 year life span...

I would love to see printed info stating this new news...

I am looking to buy the studio series and this is what I was quoted.

studio 100 -$2400/pair
cc690-$1199
adp590 $600 a pair

Are these good prices or should I expect better given that the v4 is being phased out?


Those are very good prices for new... I would jump on that..

Those are very good prices for new... I would jump on that..
+2

If the .v4's are being phased out, thats news to me...

The new lines were just released end of '06
Monitor .v5
Studio .v4
Signature .v2

Paradigm generally runs a 3 year life span...

I would love to see printed info stating this new news...

2nd that, however given how long they took updating the website for the last updates I wouldn't hold my breath.

I would be disappointed if the v4 were done already as I've had them less then two years, but they sound great and that's really all that matters.
DN

2nd that, however given how long they took updating the website for the last updates I wouldn't hold my breath.

I would be disappointed if the v4 were done already as I've had them less then two years, but they sound great and that's really all that matters.
DN


If they were really updating the lineups already, in less then 2 years :rolleyes: (which I doubt) that just means that they will have a .v3 Signature line out sooner.

And with all the talk about new release, like the last time, they only took 8 months to actually implement that happening, more then that for the Sigs.

I hope not, I still need to get my Monitor 9's to match my cc-390 and atoms
.

Paralysis by analysis....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1042496

Paralysis by analysis....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1042496

Just my .02 -- get the Denon.

Yes, the 100s like power but don't "need" power. Get what you can afford now (a receiver that can double as a pre/pro) and later look at getting a separate amp if you feel the sound is lacking a bit of punch.

Hey guys,

I have done some listening recently and am very interested in the Signature v2s, but I noticed that there are no posted measurements on any model except for the S1s, which are somewhat different in construction than its siblings. The reviews I've read so far on the S6s and S8s have been very good, but none offer any type of measurement. This is strange, given that the v1 charts were readily available.

Measurements over here:
http://ultimateavmag.com/speakersystems/408parref/
are still in process. I think a similar delay occured when this mag reviewed the Revel Studio2. The good news is that eventually (months) the measurements showed up. The better news is that UltimateAV and Stereophile seem to be sister publications and often review the same gear; the Studio2 review in UltimateAV was followed by Kal Rubinson's review in Stereophile....hopefully the same thing will happen with the Signature S8 v.2.

Thanks for the insight SYSWEI. I thought ultimateavmag had dropped the ball on those measurements... that's great news.

I am looking to buy the studio series and this is what I was quoted.

studio 100 -$2400/pair
cc690-$1199
adp590 $600 a pair

Are these good prices or should I expect better given that the v4 is being phased out?

I was quoted:
Studio 60's v.4 - $625.00 ea.
CC-690 v.4 - $850.00
ADP-590 v.4 - $425.00 ea.

From a local P. dealer. And was told that this quote would be good through at least Aug. However, he expects prices to go up. But that could have just been a ploy.

Is there any internet retailer offering Paradigm speakers anywhere?

This is directly off the Paradigm Website Dealer Locator:

"Dealer Locator - USA



BUYER BEWARE: To protect you from unscrupulous, unauthorized dealers, Paradigm® and Paradigm® Reference products are not offered for sale over the Internet or by mail order. Click here for more information.

Storefront Dealers
Paradigm Storefront Dealers offer demonstration facilities, product comparisons, and typically have on display an assortment of Paradigm products for your consideration. These Storefront Dealers also offer complete system design consultation and custom installation facilities as well. Storefront Dealers are authorized for various parts of our product line, so first select the dealer type below, and then, to find your nearest authorized Storefront Dealer, type in your zip code and click on "Locate Dealer". "

I think the short version is that if you're getting them off the internet you should be very careful, you can however, pick them up used on Audiogon and get fantastic deals for used speakers (which wear very little).

Those are very good prices for new... I would jump on that..

I think he should be able to do a better. Especially if he's getting 'em all at the same time. The cc price is way high.

I got my 100s for less and that was all I bought.

Guys,
I'm looking for some help matching rear in-walls to my Paradigm Stuido 20's and CC-470 (all v.3). I don't want to spring $600-$1000 for them as I bought everything used and on the cheap...my question is, which of the budget brand in walls are best matched to these speakers. I own a pair of Polk outdoor speakers and they are maybe too bright to go with the Studio's...would any of the JBL/Infinity/Klpisch/Boston group be a close match? I would like to err on the side of laid-back sound as I don't want my rears to draw unnecessary attention to themselves as my fronts are silky smooth (and I don't want harshly bright rears overpowering them). My Onkyo 805 has tone controls for all channels so maybe I could tone them down a bit. Ideally I'd like dipole/bipole inwalls but the only ones I know of are made by Atlantic Tech. and go for over $1K.

Thanks for any help,

BUYER BEWARE: To protect you from unscrupulous, unauthorized dealers, Paradigm® and Paradigm® Reference products are not offered for sale over the Internet or by mail order. Click here for more information.
....
I think the short version is that if you're getting them off the internet you should be very careful, you can however, pick them up used on Audiogon and get fantastic deals for used speakers (which wear very little).

Personally, I think Paradigm is hiding in the business model of the 1980s here. You can buy most anything off the internet, including cars, houses, etc. Like the Pioneer Elite line, it's pretty silly to limit sales to B&M stores. As others have said, just bypass the dealer altogether and buy off Audiogon, E-bay, or craig's list. Save a lot of money and won't be propping up their inflated profits and ancient business model.

There is still one seller of Paradigm speakers on the internet (last I checked), but their prices aren't too much off list. There were two dealers on E-bay that sold factory fresh speakers at 20% off, including shipping, no tax, but their source got pulled.

Personally, my future purchases will be from companies that have a current business model and allow authorized internet sales. Denon, and other A/V companies have a list of authorized dealers. There are of course ways to ensure quality through internet sales, as Denon and other A/V companies do it every day.

<Stepping off soap box>

I think he should be able to do a better. Especially if he's getting 'em all at the same time. The cc price is way high.

I got my 100s for less and that was all I bought.


Well then I guess he has some negotiating to do, and most dealers aren't all that flexible, that if he only wants to buy new.... to get a warranty.

I personally will never buy new again, and will continue to shop off audiogon/ebay/videogon for used, or new in box without warranty...

Which I pretty much get for just about 50% off every day of the week.

Thats how I got my Sigs, and I am thrilled with them.

Well then I guess he has some negotiating to do, and most dealers aren't all that flexible, that if he only wants to buy new.... to get a warranty.

I personally will never buy new again, and will continue to shop off audiogon/ebay/videogon for used, or new in box without warranty...

Which I pretty much get for just about 50% off every day of the week.

Thats how I got my Sigs, and I am thrilled with them.

Did you get your Sigs new in box unauthorized, or used, and about what % off list?

Hi, I have just recently bought a NIB pair of Studio 60's in Rosenut, and I have to say... They seem to be great speakers and plan on getting a cc-690 and adp-590's soon. However, I have some issues with the plastic outrigger feet that was attached when I unboxed the 60's. They seem sooooooo cheap compared to what I have read about Paradigm. This is my first experience with Paradigm, so after reading so many great things about them over the years... I guess I expected a lot. Certainly more then cheap looking, and feeling outriggers like these. Even to just barely touch the side of either speaker makes the outriggers sound as if they are going to break or crack.

Is there anywhere I could find/buy some type of metal outrigger feet to mod my 60's with?

Hi, I have just recently bought a NIB pair of Studio 60's in Rosenut, and I have to say... They seem to be great speakers and plan on getting a cc-690 and adp-590's soon. However, I have some issues with the plastic outrigger feet that was attached when I unboxed the 60's. They seem sooooooo cheap compared to what I have read about Paradigm. This is my first experience with Paradigm, so after reading so many great things about them over the years... I guess I expected a lot. Certainly more then cheap looking, and feeling outriggers like these. Even to just barely touch the side of either speaker makes the outriggers sound as if they are going to break or crack.

Is there anywhere I could find/buy some type of metal outrigger feet to mod my 60's with?
They are the same feet they have used for years they just come in different
colors (gray and black) mine have worked fine for years.

They are the same feet they have used for years they just come in different
colors (gray and black) mine have worked fine for years.

Nice to know I guess. But when spending as much for speakers from a company such as Paradigm, at the very least aluminum could have been used considering that all the weight of the speakers is supported by them.

Just would have expected better. That or its my OCD. :D Or I'm just not as willing to except compromise as much as others are. Not trying to get off on the wrong foot here, but unless people speak up..... things stay status quo.

Nice to know I guess. But when spending as much for speakers from a company such as Paradigm, at the very least aluminum could have been used considering that all the weight of the speakers is supported by them.

Just would have expected better. That or its my OCD. :D Or I'm just not as willing to except compromise as much as others are. Not trying to get off on the wrong foot here, but unless people speak up..... things stay status quo.

There are brands with metal footers but you will have add more money to
the price of the studio's to get the same or better sound.

There are brands with metal footers but you will have add more money to
the price of the studio's to get the same or better sound.

Agreed, but thats not what I'm talking about. The bottom front face plate of the Studios are made of some type of metal composite (aluminum I would guess). Do you seriously think that using the same material would really impact the cost that much? Using your analogy would mean that if it were plastic like the outriggers are, then they would be significantly cheaper... but I really doubt it.

Nice to know I guess. But when spending as much for speakers from a company such as Paradigm, at the very least aluminum could have been used considering that all the weight of the speakers is supported by them.

Just would have expected better. That or its my OCD. :D Or I'm just not as willing to except compromise as much as others are. Not trying to get off on the wrong foot here, but unless people speak up..... things stay status quo.

Feel free to add a couple hundred more dollars to the price and you can have aluminum outrigger feet. You are just as willing to except compromise as everyone else is. You do it on every single purchase you make you just don't think about it when you do it.

As stated Pdigm has been using the same outriggers for years. Unless you plan on moving your speakers ten times a day you have no worries.

Did you get your Sigs new in box unauthorized, or used, and about what % off list?

I got mine a combination of new-in-box unauthorized and used for 50% off MSRP, NO tax. V2 S4, C3, ADP-3s.

Hello everyone,

I really enjoy reading this thread! learned a lot.

I started looking for a 5.1 setup (really open living room, can not do 7.1), and really liked the Millenia series. And than when I started reading you guys I started to doubt my choices...

so I have some questions:
1. Sounds like Studio 40 V4 will be superior to the millenia, can I place the studio on a wall????
2. I also looked at the cc590, can I place it in a cabinet (with the front side open)?
3. Rears - I need to pair the entire system with an in ceiling speakers, what do you recommend?

Thanks!!!!!!!

Although I live in Israel, I'm in NY next week, planning to buy it all and send it home. Cant wait!!!:)

Hello everyone,

I really enjoy reading this thread! learned a lot.

I started looking for a 5.1 setup (really open living room, can not do 7.1), and really liked the Millenia series. And than when I started reading you guys I started to doubt my choices...

so I have some questions:
1. Sounds like Studio 40 V4 will be superior to the millenia, can I place the studio on a wall????
2. I also looked at the cc590, can I place it in a cabinet (with the front side open)?
3. Rears - I need to pair the entire system with an in ceiling speakers, what do you recommend?

Thanks!!!!!!!

Although I live in Israel, I'm in NY next week, planning to buy it all and send it home. Cant wait!!!:)

Ori -

Sorry, but you should not place any of the Studio speakers on a wall, except for the ADP surround speakers, which are meant for on-wall placement. Doing so will increase the bass too much and you will end up with a muddy / boomy sound. The same goes for placing the CC590 in a cabinet (unless the back is open too). The Millenia speakers are the best choice for your intended placement. The right speaker for the job is better than a great speaker in the wrong position. The AMS series is probably the best match for the Millenia's. They are the best in-wall that still uses a poly cone. The SA series use a metal cone which will have a different sound signature than the Millenia.

Hey guys. I have been searching through the thread to answer my own qustions but have not had much luck.

I am planning a move from my current JBL speakers to Paradigm. Currently I have

E30 mains
Ec35 Center
E20 Sides
E10 rears

I'm torn between two ideas for my front stage. Either way I plan on using Atoms for the 4 surround locations.

I know that using identical speakers is best, especially for the front stage. I think I would accomodate 3 mini monitors up front, but, the center would have to be placed above the screen and angled down ( to keep it stand up as opposed to side mounting) This could actually work well as my current R&L speaker location is where the new ones will be placed. Above the screen will keep the tweeter lever closer, under the screen ( where my current center currently is located) is more of a "dip"

My concern with using a Mini as the center is output and for the folks that sit on the side. My current center is a 3 way and fills the room quite nicely, what will I loose by going with a single mini?

If I decide against the Mini center, I would plan for a CC290.

Feel free to add a couple hundred more dollars to the price and you can have aluminum outrigger feet. You are just as willing to except compromise as everyone else is. You do it on every single purchase you make you just don't think about it when you do it.

As stated Pdigm has been using the same outriggers for years. Unless you plan on moving your speakers ten times a day you have no worries.


No.... I may "have" to excepted it, but that doesn't mean I'm "willing" to and have to keep my mouth shut about it.

And a couple hundred dollars is not what it would cost to make them. It might be what would be passed along to the customer.

And hey, I think they are great speakers, they sound great, they look good. I just believe that this issue I mentioned is a very weak link in an otherwise strong chain. Oh and by the way, you guys like having cheap plastic feet on your expensive gear, fine. I don't. And unless I have missed something in the last couple of minutes.... I have that right.


As for you, JohnGZ28.... You have know nothing of me... what I will except or what I will not.

Ori -

Sorry, but you should not place any of the Studio speakers on a wall, except for the ADP surround speakers, which are meant for on-wall placement. Doing so will increase the bass too much and you will end up with a muddy / boomy sound. The same goes for placing the CC590 in a cabinet (unless the back is open too). The Millenia speakers are the best choice for your intended placement. The right speaker for the job is better than a great speaker in the wrong position. The AMS series is probably the best match for the Millenia's. They are the best in-wall that still uses a poly cone. The SA series use a metal cone which will have a different sound signature than the Millenia.

I agree, but Paradigm now has the new "Esprit" line of Studio speakers made for On Wall appllications. Seems the perfect solution. I have not seen any reviews, but it is certainly worth checking out.

Just got delivery of my new Studio 100s which now compliment my CC690 and Servo 15. What a combination. Adding the 100s increased the bass and LFE sounds better. Paradigm tech told me to set crossovers for 100s at 43 Hz and Sub and CC690 at 53 Hz. Did this and the above resulted. Had a smile on my face for hours. Stereo music was amazing too.:D

John

No.... I may "have" to excepted it, but that doesn't mean I'm "willing" to and have to keep my mouth shut about it.

And a couple hundred dollars is not what it would cost to make them. It might be what would be passed along to the customer.

And hey, I think they are great speakers, they sound great, they look good. I just believe that this issue I mentioned is a very weak link in an otherwise strong chain. Oh and by the way, you guys like having cheap plastic feet on your expensive gear, fine. I don't. And unless I have missed something in the last couple of minutes.... I have that right.


As for you, JohnGZ28.... You have know nothing of me... what I will except or what I will not.

8,109 posts, 451,893 views and you're the only one crying about the outrigger feet.

Clearly you'll except "cheap plastic feet" with 1000s of speakers to choose from you chose the ones with "cheap plastic feet".

You're right I know nothing about you but I do know, you, just like everyone else in this world, excepts compromises on a daily basis from the food you eat, to the car you drive, to the place where you work and where you live, nothing but a long list of excepted compromises.

So please don't crap on the Pdigm thread crying about the outrigger feet.

8,109 posts, 451,893 views and you're the only one crying about the outrigger feet.

Clearly you'll except "cheap plastic feet" with 1000s of speakers to choose from you chose the ones with "cheap plastic feet".

You're right I know nothing about you but I do know, you, just like everyone else in this world, excepts compromises on a daily basis from the food you eat, to the car you drive, to the place where you work and where you live, nothing but a long list of excepted compromises.

So please don't crap on the Pdigm thread crying about the outrigger feet.
easy, fellas. without a doubt, everyone accepts compromises to some degree in almost everything, but that is different from complaining about a compromise. paradigm makes great speakers, but are they perfect speakers? of course not. when i got my 100's many years ago, one of my complaints was the way the outrigger feet were installed... even the monitor series were built better in that regard, in my opinion. i wasn't trying to crap on paradigm, just voicing an opinion. still have my 100's and enjoy listening to them everyday, but i still think the feet should be improved.

easy, fellas. without a doubt, everyone accepts compromises to some degree in almost everything, but that is different from complaining about a compromise. paradigm makes great speakers, but are they perfect speakers? of course not. when i got my 100's many years ago, one of my complaints was the way the outrigger feet were installed... even the monitor series were built better in that regard, in my opinion. i wasn't trying to crap on paradigm, just voicing an opinion. still have my 100's and enjoy listening to them everyday, but i still think the feet should be improved.

:)

In the many years of enjoyment you have had with your 100s, how many friends, family, neighbors, co-workers have listen to your system and said "those speakers sound but great but they've got some real crappy outrigger feet on them?

Are one of the speakers leaning to the right or left do to failure of da feet?

How often do you find yourself listening to Miles Davis Kind of Blue and saying to yourself, boy if these speakers had better feet on them Miles would be right here in my listening room?

8,109 posts, 451,893 views and you're the only one crying about the outrigger feet.

Clearly you'll except "cheap plastic feet" with 1000s of speakers to choose from you chose the ones with "cheap plastic feet".

You're right I know nothing about you but I do know, you, just like everyone else in this world, excepts compromises on a daily basis from the food you eat, to the car you drive, to the place where you work and where you live, nothing but a long list of excepted compromises.

So please don't crap on the Pdigm thread crying about the outrigger feet.

First off..... Thanks for the very kind and warm welcome to the forums. Thanks:rolleyes:

You admit you know nothing of me, yet right afterwards you seem to think you do. How is that?

For the record.... you must have selective reading.... No where in the 4 posts I've made have I crapped on Paradigm (And if you really feel that way, then you are taking it personally, and need to chill). Hell, I even said they sound great. In my first post... I was asking if anyone knew of a place where I could buy outriggers to mod my 60's with. But all I have received is a bunch of BS from you.

You make it sound as if I was crapping on you or your feet. :rolleyes: Do you bow down before your Paradigm alter every night to offer prayers to the Paradigm gods? Or what. Its one thing to want to have brand loyalty, but giving someone grief over an issue they voice is a bit much.

And "had" I wanted to crap on Paradigm speakers, I would have went into the spill I'm about to.
When I bought my NIB 60's I was feeling great... after having researched, and read as much as I possibly could. I get home and unbox them. So very carefully like they were new born babies.
I get the first one unboxed, and looked at the outriggers... on the first speaker alone... 3 had the outriggers barely screwed in, one was so loose it was dangling. Another had the screw cap sheared off.
The other ones feet were ok, but there was a 1/8" ding in the side of the veneer. And the tweeter had a 1/4 oval mark on the diaphram.

Now after reading all these glowing reviews, and read from peeps much like you, I was feeling freak'n fustrated. I had held Paradigm in very high regard, but at this point I consider the build quality certainly leaves a lot to be desired.

Yes, they sound very very good. and I don't see myself selling them any time soon..... But I'll never treat them like you seem to.

Hope you read this very carefully........ this time. :rolleyes:

Oh.... and at a MSRP of $2000 bucks... yeah I expect better. I don't know about you, but thats a lot of money for me. I'm not rich and can't just throw bucket loads of cash at hobbies.

Edit: My 60's have not been moved since setting them up... But after checking them, the spikes are bowing out from the weight of the speakers... all 8 spikes. Just after 2 weeks.

First off..... Thanks for the very kind and warm welcome to the forums. Thanks:rolleyes:

You admit you know nothing of me, yet right afterwards you seem to think you do. How is that?

For the record.... you must have selective reading.... No where in the 4 posts I've made have I crapped on Paradigm (And if you really feel that way, then you are taking it personally, and need to chill). Hell, I even said they sound great. In my first post... I was asking if anyone knew of a place where I could buy outriggers to mod my 60's with. But all I have received is a bunch of BS from you.

You make it sound as if I was crapping on you or your feet. :rolleyes: Do you bow down before your Paradigm alter every night to offer prayers to the Paradigm gods? Or what. Its one thing to want to have brand loyalty, but giving someone grief over an issue they voice is a bit much.

And "had" I wanted to crap on Paradigm speakers, I would have went into the spill I'm about to.
When I bought my NIB 60's I was feeling great... after having researched, and read as much as I possibly could. I get home and unbox them. So very carefully like they were new born babies.
I get the first one unboxed, and looked at the outriggers... on the first speaker alone... 3 had the outriggers barely screwed in, one was so loose it was dangling. Another had the screw cap sheared off.
The other ones feet were ok, but there was a 1/8" ding in the side of the veneer. And the tweeter had a 1/4 oval mark on the diaphram.

Now after reading all these glowing reviews, and read from peeps much like you, I was feeling freak'n fustrated. I had held Paradigm in very high regard, but at this point I consider the build quality certainly leaves a lot to be desired.

Yes, they sound very very good. and I don't see myself selling them any time soon..... But I'll never treat them like you seem to.

Hope you read this very carefully........ this time. :rolleyes:

Oh.... and at a MSRP of $2000 bucks... yeah I expect better. I don't know about you, but thats a lot of money for me. I'm not rich and can't just throw bucket loads of cash at hobbies.

Edit: My 60's have not been moved since setting them up... But after checking them, the spikes are bowing out from the weight of the speakers... all 8 spikes. Just after 2 weeks.

I'll back you up on your complaint. Since the V1 Studios, the build quality has gone down hill considerably. The V1's weighed a ton due to extensive internal bracing, and the sides of the speaker were real wood veneer. The current Studio's are considerably lighter because they have less internal bracing and the only finish is faux wood vinyl! There are considerably less expensive speakers than the Studio's avialable these days that come finished in real wood veneer (Monitor Audio RS series, B&W CM series, hell even Axiom and Rocket have real wood). Yes, the Studio's are excellent performers, but for what are Paradigm's second from the top of the line speakers, they need to get with the times and put a little more quality into the cabinet.

I'll back you up on your complaint. Since the V1 Studios, the build quality has gone down hill considerably. The V1's weighed a ton due to extensive internal bracing, and the sides of the speaker were real wood veneer. The current Studio's are considerably lighter because they have less internal bracing and the only finish is faux wood vinyl! There are considerably less expensive speakers than the Studio's avialable these days that come finished in real wood veneer (Monitor Audio RS series, B&W CM series, hell even Axiom and Rocket have real wood). Yes, the Studio's are excellent performers, but for what are Paradigm's second from the top of the line speakers, they need to get with the times and put a little more quality into the cabinet.

Thank you Sir! Glad to know I'm not the only one to see this.

I was at a guys house who had the Studio 100's v.2 and WOW.... those were some great built speakers. Massive, hefty and imposing. Compared to what I received, they looked and felt like tanks.

Thank you Sir! Glad to know I'm not the only one to see this.

I was at a guys house who had the Studio 100's v.2 and WOW.... those were some great built speakers. Massive, hefty and imposing. Compared to what I received, they looked and felt like tanks.

The build quality of the Studio's was a big factor in my decision to go with the Signature line at the time. Those cabinets are second to none. While Paradigm build all of it's cabinets in-house from the Studio's on down, the cabinets for the Sigs are outsourced from Denmark. Maybe you could save up and get some used Sigs on Agon. They have everything you are looking for-- even metal outrigger feet. :D Now that I think of it, I wonder if you could purchase some Signature feet from Paradigm?

The build quality of the Studio's was a big factor in my decision to go with the Signature line at the time. Those cabinets are second to none. While Paradigm build all of it's cabinets in-house from the Studio's on down, the cabinets for the Sigs are outsourced from Denmark. Maybe you could save up and get some used Sigs on Agon. They have everything you are looking for-- even metal outrigger feet. :D Now that I think of it, I wonder if you could purchase some Signature feet from Paradigm?

Hey, now thats a thought...... thanks much. I'll have to check into that. :D

Yeah, would LOVE to be able to get into the Sig's. I listened to the S6's v.1 and was impressed. Maybe one day.

I agree, but Paradigm now has the new "Esprit" line of Studio speakers made for On Wall appllications. Seems the perfect solution. I have not seen any reviews, but it is certainly worth checking out.

I didn't notice that, thanks. Do anyone have experience with the onwall Esprit?

Can anyone recommend when I can audition paradigm in NYC (I know about sound city)?

Thanks guys!

I'll back you up on your complaint. Since the V1 Studios, the build quality has gone down hill considerably. The V1's weighed a ton due to extensive internal bracing, and the sides of the speaker were real wood veneer. The current Studio's are considerably lighter because they have less internal bracing and the only finish is faux wood vinyl! There are considerably less expensive speakers than the Studio's avialable these days that come finished in real wood veneer (Monitor Audio RS series, B&W CM series, hell even Axiom and Rocket have real wood). Yes, the Studio's are excellent performers, but for what are Paradigm's second from the top of the line speakers, they need to get with the times and put a little more quality into the cabinet.

When the Studio line used real wood veneer, about 10 years ago, that was because it was Paradigms top-of-the-line, now they have Signatures which you can buy for about 70% more if the cabinet is really that important to you. Second, I've got a 70 lbs. TV, HDTV antenna and some other stuff on top of my CC-470 and those little feet are doing just fine, with over 110lbs on them. Also, I'm new to Paradigm ~1yr. so I can't speak first hand about the quality going downhill but I do know for certain that Mark Fleishman from HT Mag. A-B'd the new version 4's against his reference Studio 20's from several generations ago and he said:

"Compared with the v.2s, the v.4s seemed to bring me a row or two closer to the sopranos (but it didn't hurt a bit) and delivered the baritones more accurately (they were less chesty)...but the v.4's tweeters also injected more air into the soundfield than I had previously heard with the v.2...and the Studio 20 v.4s delivered on their potential, with more harmonic richness in the right hand than I recalled from the v.2s. " Full article linked below.

http://hometheatermag.com/compactspeakers/307paradigm/

So the short of it is, maybe they did cheap out on the feet but the sound quality has improved significantly since the V.1s...I'll take great sound quality over platinum feet any day of the week, and I refuse to pay 70% more for both.

I do have one question, I'm thinking about putting my CC-470 on top of my TV which would place it about 3 feet above my Studio 20's tweeters, should I place the center upside down to get the tweeter 7in. lower and aimed more at my head? (I'll run Audyssey Multi to make sure it stays in phase)?

Thanks,

When the Studio line used real wood veneer, about 10 years ago, that was because it was Paradigms top-of-the-line, now they have Signatures which you can buy for about 70% more if the cabinet is really that important to you. Second, I've got a 70 lbs. TV, HDTV antenna and some other stuff on top of my CC-470 and those little feet are doing just fine, with over 110lbs on them. Also, I'm new to Paradigm ~1yr. so I can't speak first hand about the quality going downhill but I do know for certain that Mark Fleishman from HT Mag. A-B'd the new version 4's against his reference Studio 20's from several generations ago and he said:

"Compared with the v.2s, the v.4s seemed to bring me a row or two closer to the sopranos (but it didn't hurt a bit) and delivered the baritones more accurately (they were less chesty)...but the v.4's tweeters also injected more air into the soundfield than I had previously heard with the v.2...and the Studio 20 v.4s delivered on their potential, with more harmonic richness in the right hand than I recalled from the v.2s. " Full article linked below.

http://hometheatermag.com/compactspeakers/307paradigm/

So the short of it is, maybe they did cheap out on the feet but the sound quality has improved significantly since the V.1s...I'll take great sound quality over platinum feet any day of the week, and I won't pay 70% more for both.

I do have one question, I'm thinking about putting my CC-470 on top of my TV which would place it about 3 feet above my Studio 20's tweeters, should I place the center upside down to get the tweeter 7in. lower and aimed more at my head? (I'll run Audyssey Multi to make sure it stays in phase)?

Thanks,

I agree that it's all about sound. Who cares about the cabinets (although if you get great cabinets with what you like best in sound, that's a bonus).

In terms of the height of the center - in general, the ears/brain can't really distinguish height of sound that well. Left/Right/Front/Back, yes, but not up/down. So it shouldn't matter much, as long as it's still pointed towards the main seating.

If you want to do something that will help a lot, add some acoustic panels!

[QUOTE=AbMagFab;14172523]I agree that it's all about sound. Who cares about the cabinets (although if you get great cabinets with what you like best in sound, that's a bonus).

[QUOTE]

Not to put you on the spot in particular, but I don't get this line of thinking. So if you bought a BMW and the seats were covered in cheap vinyl and it had 13" rims on it, it would be fine because it's not about how it looks, its all about the way it drives? Or how about buying a new couch that is covered in paisley and polka dotted fabric? That wouldn't matter as long as it is comfortable?

I agree that sound quality is what matters most, but for what the Studio's go for, they should be a step up in build quality.

I just think that too many

While I have been a long time Paradigm fan, I have to say that I agree with some of the posts above. I have seen a definite increase in very visible cost cutting occuring, while the prices are rapidly increasing. Not a good combination. I am quite disappointed in some of the decisions Paradigm has been making since Studio V2 (cost cutting, less bass extension, etc).

[QUOTE=AbMagFab;14172523]I agree that it's all about sound. Who cares about the cabinets (although if you get great cabinets with what you like best in sound, that's a bonus).

[QUOTE]

Not to put you on the spot in particular, but I don't get this line of thinking. So if you bought a BMW and the seats were covered in cheap vinyl and it had 13" rims on it, it would be fine because it's not about how it looks, its all about the way it drives? Or how about buying a new couch that is covered in paisley and polka dotted fabric? That wouldn't matter as long as it is comfortable?

I agree that sound quality is what matters most, but for what the Studio's go for, they should be a step up in build quality.

I just think that too many

:)

If you go to a BMW dealer and the car you describe is there, you make a choice to buy it the way it is, knowing that it has 13" rims and cloth seats, or you walk out and got to Lexus, Merc, Audi, etc. and buy one that has 22s and Corinthian leather. You know what you're getting when you put down your 50K. Same with the couch you know that you're buying one with paisley and polka dots. To pay for it and then start crying about how it looks isn't to bright when there are so many other choices available.

Same with any speaker doesn't matter if it's Pdigm, B&W, Totem, Polk, DTech, Vanderstein, etc. etc. Too many choices to buy something your not happy with. You know when you walk out the showroom what you're getting. Pdigms are not the end all speaker. Don't like the feet or the build quality, buy something else. But to buy it and then start complaining about something that was obvious prior to the purchase isn't too bright.

If the speakers at the dealer have 24K gold outriggers and you get home and your's have plastic you have a legit gripe. If you didn't demo them at home (which you should) and the sound is different than what you heard in the showroom (too bright, harsh, muddied, etc.) you have a beef.

I agree that it's all about sound. Who cares about the cabinets (although if you get great cabinets with what you like best in sound, that's a bonus).



I'm not meaning to put you on the spot here either, but one of the most important things about a speaker is the cabinet, and I'm not talking about the way it looks... It has more to do with the builder making a completely anti resonant cabinet, that means it adds absolutely no coloration to the sound in respect the materials utilized as well as how sturdy the cabinet is designed.

Resonances coming from the cabinet itself are probably the biggest downfalls of speaker manufacturers these days, to cut costs, especially in the shipping dept.

There is a reason that a good heavy cabinet is preferred, and its not just looks, but it really needs to have certain build characteristics in order to be perfect, utilizing extreme internal acoustical dampening, really heavy dense bracing, to drastically lower the cabinet wall vibration/output, measured in db's. Qualities which provides a significant effect on the resolution and timbre accuracy of the speaker.


As nice as the Studio's sound they could be far better, and the Sigs are a much larger step in the right direction, but they aren't perfect either.
Even though I do love the sound of my Sigs

Just got delivery of my new Studio 100s which now compliment my CC690 and Servo 15. What a combination. Adding the 100s increased the bass and LFE sounds better. Paradigm tech told me to set crossovers for 100s at 43 Hz and Sub and CC690 at 53 Hz. Did this and the above resulted. Had a smile on my face for hours. Stereo music was amazing too.:D

John

How close from the rear wall have you placed your studio 100s?

Hello! Can anyone tell me the MSRP for the Signature S6, Signature S4, and Studio 100 speakers? I'm trying to determine where in the sea of Paradigm speakers I am able to sail. Thank you!

I'm not meaning to put you on the spot here either, but one of the most important things about a speaker is the cabinet, and I'm not talking about the way it looks... It has more to do with the builder making a completely anti resonant cabinet, that means it adds absolutely no coloration to the sound in respect the materials utilized as well as how sturdy the cabinet is designed.

Resonances coming from the cabinet itself are probably the biggest downfalls of speaker manufacturers these days, to cut costs, especially in the shipping dept.

There is a reason that a good heavy cabinet is preferred, and its not just looks, but it really needs to have certain build characteristics in order to be perfect, utilizing extreme internal acoustical dampening, really heavy dense bracing, to drastically lower the cabinet wall vibration/output, measured in db's. Qualities which provides a significant effect on the resolution and timbre accuracy of the speaker.


As nice as the Studio's sound they could be far better, and the Sigs are a much larger step in the right direction, but they aren't perfect either.
Even though I do love the sound of my Sigs

I of course wasn't referring to the cabinets as it relates to sound - that's why I specifically said "it's all about sound". Perhaps I could have been clearer and said "who cares what they look like", which was my point, and I think the point that's mostly being discussed.

If you care more about the looks of the cabinet than the sound of the speaker (+cabinet), then make your decision that way.

I of course wasn't referring to the cabinets as it relates to sound - that's why I specifically said "it's all about sound". Perhaps I could have been clearer and said "who cares what they look like", which was my point, and I think the point that's mostly being discussed.

If you care more about the looks of the cabinet than the sound of the speaker (+cabinet), then make your decision that way.


Agreed... there are many ways to buy a set of speakers...

And one of them certainly can be they a piece of art... :)

Personally I think the Paradigm Signatures are very much a work of art..., they are simply beautiful looking, and elegant.... and whats better is they sound fantastic to me to boot....

:)

In the many years of enjoyment you have had with your 100s, how many friends, family, neighbors, co-workers have listen to your system and said "those speakers sound but great but they've got some real crappy outrigger feet on them?

Are one of the speakers leaning to the right or left do to failure of da feet?

How often do you find yourself listening to Miles Davis Kind of Blue and saying to yourself, boy if these speakers had better feet on them Miles would be right here in my listening room?
I think you're missing the point. I didn't say that having better feet would improve the sound at all. I'll use your own example to explain:

Imagine you go to a bmw dealership because you love their driving characteristics and styling. Lets say bmw only offers their cars in a trendy new cow print paint finish, but you wanted a car in simple black. The other dealers, lexus, mercedes, audi, all offer black, but the driving characteristics and styling are nowhere close to bmw, in your opinion, so you buy the beemer in cow print. Your buddy comes over the next day to check out your new ride. Do you tell him, "since i decided to make the purchase, that means i love everything about this car, even the beautiful cow print." Or would you be more likely to say, "i think the car would be better if it was available in black, but it is an acceptable compromise given the amazing driving characteristics and styling."

While the paint finish wouldn't change the handling or power of the car, it certainly would add to the overall product. Same thing with the paradigm studio's; while better feet won't change the sound, it would improve the overall product, and this is all anyone is saying here.

Your buddy comes over the next day to check out your new ride. Do you tell him, "since i decided to make the purchase, that means i love everything about this car, even the beautiful cow print." Or would you be more likely to say, "i think the car would be better if it was available in black, but it is an acceptable compromise given the amazing driving characteristics and styling."

Actually I wouldn't say either. :)

If, I'm spending the cheese on an M6 convertible I'm going to like every aspect of the car (it's just a car so "love" is out of the question).

While the paint finish wouldn't change the handling or power of the car, it certainly would add to the overall product. Same thing with the paradigm studio's; while better feet won't change the sound, it would improve the overall product, and this is all anyone is saying here.

What you are saying here, assuming that one likes the looks of aluminum feet, is a lot different than this:

"Nice to know I guess. But when spending as much for speakers from a company such as Paradigm, at the very least aluminum could have been used considering that all the weight of the speakers is supported by them. Just would have expected better. That or its my OCD. Or I'm just not as willing to except compromise as much as others are".

The outriggers (speaker supports - feet) are what decouples the speakers from the floor. The better this works, the better the sound. The quality of the supports (outriggers), or to put it another way... the better the foundation, the better the speaker. Otherwise, why provide spikes, isolation discs or feet at all..... ?

Its not all about the looks, as both the Studio and Sig's (outriggers) look virtually the same. Its about quality, although I would have to admit, looks are important too. No one wants to buy shoddy or damaged products, and considering the cost of these speakers.... a person shouldn't have to unboxed them only to find quality issues.

If some of you don't care about that..... Fine, don't. But don't jump my *^&%^ because I do. And if you so blinded by your owner/brand loyalty that you can't see beyond that, I'd hate to see some of the other products you buy.
Seems that some ^ only get out of what they read, what they want to. And make up the rest.



And BTW, I really like my 60's..... and my original post was asking for suggestions to correct an issue I have, of which, only hifisponge offered any constructive advice instead of the recrimination from ^.

Ok guys... lets keep it civil... no one is attacking anyone here..

Everyone has their own opinion.... so lets just come to the conclusion that you agree to disagree... No Harm, No Foul....

Ok guys... lets keep it civil... no one is attacking anyone here..

Everyone has their own opinion.... so lets just come to the conclusion that you agree to disagree... No Harm, No Foul....

I'm certainly fine with that. All I wanted was a little advice and pointing in the right direction, not be put on the defensive for my concerns, of which only hifisponge has offered to be kind enough to do that.

I'm certainly fine with that. All I wanted was a little advice and pointing in the right direction, not be put on the defensive for my concerns, of which only hifisponge has offered to be kind enough to do that.

If you sincerely believe that putting aluminum outrigger feet on your 60s will actually improve the sonic quality over the current set up then grab your yellow pages and find a machine shop and they can "easily" make you some. Also, there are plenty of websites that sell isolation devices that will be happy to take your money.

If you sincerely believe that putting aluminum outrigger feet on your 60s will actually improve the sonic quality over the current set up then grab your yellow pages and find a machine shop and they can "easily" make you some. Also, there are plenty of websites that sell isolation devices that will be happy to take your money.

Just can't help yourself, can you?

Any got a good link to learn about ideal speaker placement? Such as distance from walls, angled toward listener, ideal distance to listener and such?

I got a Monitor 7 setup wiht a 370 center, ADP 370 surrounds, and PW2100 sub in a 15x11x9 room. If it'd help, I can take some pics?

Any got a good link to learn about ideal speaker placement? Such as distance from walls, angled toward listener, ideal distance to listener and such?

I got a Monitor 7 setup wiht a 370 center, ADP 370 surrounds, and PW2100 sub in a 15x11x9 room. If it'd help, I can take some pics?

It's an art more than a science. More than placement, you'll get a lot more benefit from some acoustic treatments.

That being said, placement tends to be speaker-specific. For example, the Paradigms tend to have very good off-axis response when placed a couple feet from walls.

That all being said, front speakers generally should be placed a couple feet from the front wall, and as far as possible from the side walls (like more than a foot or so), if possible. And toed in slightly to face the main listening position.

Here are a couple general links from THX and Dolby:
http://www.thx.com/home/setup/speakers/index.html
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout2.html

Just can't help yourself, can you?

No, I can't.

But hey, let's start all over again.

You:
I just got some Pdigm 60s and they sound really good but I was wondering if some aluminum outriggers would improve the sound quality and be more supportive than the current set up.

Me:
Welcome to the club. I hope you get years of enjoyment out of them until your next upgrade. Generally speaking aluminum outriggers will not improve the sound quality at all. If you have hard wood floors and are using the spikes you may want to pick up some discs to keep the spikes from damaging the floor. If the speakers are sitting on some deep pile carpet you may want to try and raise them a bit, but don't spend a lot of money on anything you use. If you need a website for some cheap disc let me know. Also, the 60s only weight about 70lbs so their weight is not going to be an issue.


There you go, see how easy this exchange could have been? :)

Well I took the plunge and just picked up a pair of Monitor 7's myself along with a DSP-3100 sub. Figured I'd start with this and work my way up to the full surround sound experience.

Well I took the plunge and just picked up a pair of Monitor 7's myself along with a DSP-3100 sub. Figured I'd start with this and work my way up to the full surround sound experience.

congrats, i hear great things about the 7's. my 11's are the "bomb"! lol

Well I took the plunge and just picked up a pair of Monitor 7's myself along with a DSP-3100 sub. Figured I'd start with this and work my way up to the full surround sound experience.

You could have done a lot worst than the Monitor 7's .. congrats and good luck!

As for the DSP-3100 I don't have the same enthusiasm. You could have bought among the best around in the ********** MFW-15 @$600.00 and another $75 for shipping . This unit is surpassed by only the JL Fathom 113!

there is much written about it in on this forum! Check it out.

good luck nonetheless;)

I am moving into a new house and need to switch up my home theater. I will have spatial contraints in the new house b/c it is pre-wired for 5.1 and the tv has to be a flat panel. I am 98% sure I am going with the Samsung 46A750 for the TV and I am a little less sure about the audio component.

I have been impressed with what people generally say about Paradigm and so I went to a local hi-end shop to view their affordable Paradigm stuff ... mostly the monitor series and cinema series ... My center channel must unfortunately mount above the tv, which is already very high. My main focus is on the center, left and right channels. I was thinking about going with the cinema 330 for center, and mini (or titan) monitors for L and R, and either ADP 190 or ADP Cinemas for surrounds). Then I was browsing the Paradigm website and saw the Millenia 20 Center. The question is: will this upgraded center mesh well with the other components which are not in the reference line?? Any opinions are appreciated.

It's an art more than a science. More than placement, you'll get a lot more benefit from some acoustic treatments.

That being said, placement tends to be speaker-specific. For example, the Paradigms tend to have very good off-axis response when placed a couple feet from walls.

That all being said, front speakers generally should be placed a couple feet from the front wall, and as far as possible from the side walls (like more than a foot or so), if possible. And toed in slightly to face the main listening position.

Here are a couple general links from THX and Dolby:
http://www.thx.com/home/setup/speakers/index.html
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout2.html


Thanks I did some research and re did the room a bit today and it sounds much nicer. I re did the distance/spl level calibration on the receiver also. Any recommendations for Acoustical treamet? I looked on Gik Acoustics and they seem to have some 'stock' packages they recommend. Any tips? The prices for the Gik packages for HT is $700 and $950.

I recently inherited a Paradigm Reference Servo-15 from a friend who was frustrated with the intermittent problem he had with the subwoofer not responding to incoming signal. I do see the problem with the subwoofer sometimes dropping out unless I jiggle the wire a little. Can someone give me a pointer how I should go about troubleshooting this problem? My friend said the dealer he bought from charged him $500 to try to get the problem "fixed" though the problem was still not fixed.

Thanks.

Thanks I did some research and re did the room a bit today and it sounds much nicer. I re did the distance/spl level calibration on the receiver also. Any recommendations for Acoustical treamet? I looked on Gik Acoustics and they seem to have some 'stock' packages they recommend. Any tips? The prices for the Gik packages for HT is $700 and $950.

I built my own, pretty easy to do:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43896

And much less expensive to do on your own, and you get exacly what you want. Also higher quality (you can use better materials).

I think for everything I did, which so far is 16 panels (some 2", some 4"), almost all custom sizes or shapes, I spent under $1000. And I still have 2 or 4 more to do for the rear corners, but I have all the materials (just not the time yet).

I bought from a place called ATSAcoustics.com I think? If that's not it, PM me and I'll look it up when I get home.

If you sincerely believe that putting aluminum outrigger feet on your 60s will actually improve the sonic quality over the current set up then grab your yellow pages and find a machine shop and they can "easily" make you some. Also, there are plenty of websites that sell isolation devices that will be happy to take your money.

True, I was in a local hi/fi shop (Bjorn's for those of you close to San Antonio) this weekend and got a chance to audition the Aurelex pads ($60/pr) and whille they did sound good the room wasn't really set up to take advantage of them). I'll probably just cut an old mouse pad to fit as the acoustic foam I have under them is very compressed and not doing a very good job.

True, I was in a local hi/fi shop (Bjorn's for those of you close to San Antonio) this weekend and got a chance to audition the Aurelex pads ($60/pr) and whille they did sound good the room wasn't really set up to take advantage of them). I'll probably just cut an old mouse pad to fit as the acoustic foam I have under them is very compressed and not doing a very good job.

Where's the LOL or :D?

I recently inherited a Paradigm Reference Servo-15 from a friend who was frustrated with the intermittent problem he had with the subwoofer not responding to incoming signal. I do see the problem with the subwoofer sometimes dropping out unless I jiggle the wire a little. Can someone give me a pointer how I should go about troubleshooting this problem? My friend said the dealer he bought from charged him $500 to try to get the problem "fixed" though the problem was still not fixed.

Thanks.

Which wire the power cord or sub cable and was either tried with a different
one or was the rca conection looked at solder joints can become cracked.

Which wire the power cord or sub cable and was either tried with a different
one or was the rca conection looked at solder joints can become cracked.

I jiggled the sub RCA cable to make it work, and yes I did try different cable, but the problem still shows up intermittently. Just turning the cable on the sub causes the sub sound output to fade in and out.

To look at the solder joints, I guess I have open up the sub?

I jiggled the sub RCA cable to make it work, and yes I did try different cable, but the problem still shows up intermittently. Just turning the cable on the sub causes the sub sound output to fade in and out.

To look at the solder joints, I guess I have open up the sub?

Sounds like a bad rca connection.Yes you will have to take the amp plate out or try a service center different from the one you used previously.

I have a pair of Studio 20 v.4's right now and though I'd really like to get another 2 for the rear speakers, I have an opportunity to get a pair of Atom Monitor's for a really good price to use as the rear speakers for my set up.

Does anybody have a similar set up? I want to know if I should use the Atoms or keep saving for another pair of Studio 20's or possibly Studio 60's and use my current 20's as the rears. Any advice is appreciated.

I have a pair of Studio 20 v.4's right now and though I'd really like to get another 2 for the rear speakers, I have an opportunity to get a pair of Atom Monitor's for a really good price to use as the rear speakers for my set up.

Does anybody have a similar set up? I want to know if I should use the Atoms or keep saving for another pair of Studio 20's or possibly Studio 60's and use my current 20's as the rears. Any advice is appreciated.

Studio 20s are not really meant to be wall-mounted (although some people do it). Rear speakers in a 7.1 set up are preferably wall-mounted.

I have studio 20s up front and atoms in the rear. Sounds great. See my signature for photos.

Studio 20s are not really meant to be wall-mounted (although some people do it). Rear speakers in a 7.1 set up are preferably wall-mounted.

I have studio 20s up front and atoms in the rear. Sounds great. See my signature for photos.

Thanks!

I guess my main concern is will the atoms be a good acoustic match for the Studio 20's, and it appears they are probably a good match. Nice theater btw.

I have a pair of Studio 20 v.4's right now and though I'd really like to get another 2 for the rear speakers, I have an opportunity to get a pair of Atom Monitor's for a really good price to use as the rear speakers for my set up.

Does anybody have a similar set up? I want to know if I should use the Atoms or keep saving for another pair of Studio 20's or possibly Studio 60's and use my current 20's as the rears. Any advice is appreciated.

I have an odd shaped room, and because it is so large, I use my Studio 20's as my side surround speakers, ADP's just won't work in my layout. They are mounted on the wall with B-Tech BT-77 speaker mounts... http://www.btech-usa.com/bt77.html
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/HT-Great%20Room/HTPics012.jpg
Don't mind the wires, I just haven't updated my pics with the speakers wires in the wall... :)

For rear surrounds Atoms should be more then adequate...

Question: What color are the tweeter Domes in the v.4 Studios supposed to be?

I got a CC-690 today, and it has a Gold tweeter dome or G-PAL, however the Studio 60's I have, have tweeter Silver Domes. Or so light in color that they look silver.

Silver for v4 with aluminum midrange and gold for v3 with yellow poly for mid but there
was no 690 for the v3 line up as far as I know.Gold gpal tweeter domes were used in all v4's.

Thanks for the advice caesar1 and Warpdrv. Looks like I'll be picking up a pair of atoms.

Silver for v4 with aluminum midrange and gold for v3 with yellow poly for mid but there
was no 690 for the v3 line up as far as I know.Gold gpal tweeter domes were used in all v4's.

Thanks oztech.

So by your last sentence, you mean all studio line v.4's are supposed to be G-PAL, (Gold)? And if so, why would the v.4 60's have a Silver dome?

Or, do you mean "Silver for the v.4" should be Silver, except the cc-690, which should be Gold?

Sorry, just trying to understand better. The Catalog I have shows specs of G-PAL for all v.4 Studio's and cc-690 center. Which by my understanding, would be G-PAL (Gold-Anodized Pure-Aluminum Dome) would mean "Gold" in color, not "Silver".

All the Tweeters on the .v4 are G-Pal, meaning gold...

Silver is .v3

All the Tweeters on the .v4 are G-Pal, meaning gold...

Silver is .v3

Thanks.

Ok... thats what I was under the impression of. Thanks. Now why in the world would my new Studio 60's have Silver tweeter domes, i wonder? Guess I'll be contacting Paradigm.
Look at the Paradigm plaque on the back of the speaker it states the model.

Look at the Paradigm plaque on the back of the speaker it states the model.

Yes, it says V.4. It may be that the coloring is a lot lighter than on the cc-690. The cc-690 is really a very deep bright gold color. I'm trying to get some better light on the 60's to really be able to tell. Hopefully I just jumped the gun. And if so, sorry to have bother you guys.

Thanks again.

Yes, it says V.4. It may be that the coloring is a lot lighter than on the cc-690. The cc-690 is really a very deep bright gold color. I'm trying to get some better light on the 60's to really be able to tell. Hopefully I just jumped the gun. And if so, sorry to have bother you guys.

Thanks again.

Thats what this is all about is to help and learn.

I recently inherited a Paradigm Reference Servo-15 from a friend who was frustrated with the intermittent problem he had with the subwoofer not responding to incoming signal. I do see the problem with the subwoofer sometimes dropping out unless I jiggle the wire a little. Can someone give me a pointer how I should go about troubleshooting this problem? My friend said the dealer he bought from charged him $500 to try to get the problem "fixed" though the problem was still not fixed.

Thanks.

First off, somebody needs to go get their $500 back from that dealer, and tell him he should be ashamed for keeping the money for a persisting problem.

The problem with many subs (my 10 yr old JBL included) is that if they are not receiving a constant signal feed they tend to shut off...one way to fix this is to switch the sub to "constant on" mode, if it has one (mine doesn't), another fix would be to get into the receiver's tone control or level calibration menu and pump up the output (~+3-5db) and then use the volume control on the sub to compensate. Still, another option might be to try setting the crossover control (on the receiver, not the sub which should be "wide open" if possible) to a higher hz setting thus sending it more signal information to the sub which will keep it "occupied" and on...some soundtracks just don't have that much info below 40-60Hz, but almost all have a lot in the 60-90Hz region. These fixes won't work for all subs but they are worth a try.

I've also had RCA fitting problems, I'm no fan of their price/performance ratio but Monster cable makes some really tight fitting RCA cables...I'm sure other manufacturers do as well.

Let me know if one helps...then we can go from there.

ok...I know this is a paradigm thread...so... i need convincing.

I have a choice...I have an opportunity to get a pair of s-6 (v2) with the c-5 for $6000 (second hand) and put them with a pair of fathom f113 subs.

or I have another amazing opportunity to get a pair of Revel Salon2 with the voice2 for $16,000 (dealer demo)

I am in the fortunate situation to be able to afford either...not that I like spending money for no reason...with that said...is the law of diminishing returns in effect here. Is there a big difference to justify the upgrade!

I am using this for a HT situation and 80% of the use is for movies/tv with the occasional music listening. Is it crazy to be spending over 5,000 per speaker? Do I get that much more from it?

Thanks
for your help!!!!

ok...I know this is a paradigm thread...so... i need convincing.

I have a choice...I have an opportunity to get a pair of s-6 (v2) with the c-5 for $6000 (second hand) and put them with a pair of fathom f113 subs.

or I have another amazing opportunity to get a pair of Revel Salon2 with the voice2 for $16,000 (dealer demo)

I am in the fortunate situation to be able to afford either...not that I like spending money for no reason...with that said...is the law of diminishing returns in effect here. Is there a big difference to justify the upgrade!

I am using this for a HT situation and 80% of the use is for movies/tv with the occasional music listening. Is it crazy to be spending over 5,000 per speaker? Do I get that much more from it?

Ugh, lost my last edit! I was going to say, I'd strongly look at the Paradigms then see if any parts of your system could be upgraded with the extra $$. Perhaps a new ICEpower amp? New display? I think those upgrades could go further than dropping that much on speakers and result in a better experience.

I think HT usage lets you 'get away' with speakers that might not sound quite as perfect for 2-channel music. Are there other areas of your HT you want to improve such as the display? Again, I'd do the $6K Paradigm them treat yourself to good acoustical treatments and beef up your display, if it's a bit dated. Perhaps you could spring for a ICEpower amp? Those can be had for $3K and would drive the Paradigms nicely.
Thanks
for your help!!!!


If you are going to spend that much, sure as hell make sure your room is acoustically treated to the max. A pair of $16K speakers can sound like crap in a bad room. Likewise the $6K could sound spectacular in a well treated room.

If you room is currently untreated, I'd go for the Paradigm set, then invest a good chunk of money in treatments. I think that's better than paying double for speakers that may sound poor because of room issues.

Now if your room is already treated and fine tuned, then its a harder decision. I have the S-4s v2 and quite happy with them. I'm looking to add a F113 later this year or early next as they seem to be killer subs.

If you are going to spend that much, sure as hell make sure your room is acoustically treated to the max. A pair of $16K speakers can sound like crap in a bad room. Likewise the $6K could sound spectacular in a well treated room.

If you room is currently untreated, I'd go for the Paradigm set, then invest a good chunk of money in treatments. I think that's better than paying double for speakers that may sound poor because of room issues.

Now if your room is already treated and fine tuned, then its a harder decision. I have the S-4s v2 and quite happy with them. I'm looking to add a F113 later this year or early next as they seem to be killer subs.

Well my edits were lost TWICE, so let's see if this works. I was going to add that you should look at beefing up other areas of your HT. Perhaps a ICEpower amp? New display? Better receiver? Blu-Ray player? I think those could bring more enjoyment than paying double for speakers that may only provide marginal gain, especially for HT usage.

with respects to the room...not treated

with respects to the equipment...running the new denon seperates (both the avp and poa) the denon blueray and new JVC projector dla2...upgraded cables (xlr and hdmi) and power cords and power conditioner.

I am leaning towards saving the money... it is just when you hear the Revels....WOW! Just not sure when I get them home...it is still a wow....??

with respects to the room...not treated

with respects to the equipment...running the new denon seperates (both the avp and poa) the denon blueray and new JVC projector dla2...upgraded cables (xlr and hdmi) and power cords and power conditioner.

I am leaning towards saving the money... it is just when you hear the Revels....WOW! Just not sure when I get them home...it is still a wow....??

Unless you can afford the Revels AND thorough treatments, I'd stick with the Paradigm's and splurge on quality treatments. Over on the Acoustics master thread here on AVS there's a guy, Ken I think, that's a professional acoustical dude which seems to REALLY know his stuff. They can send you a kit and instructions to take acoustical samples then they run the files through some detailed analysis and make specific recommendations on what to treat in your room. I haven't tried his service, but his posts on AVS have been highly professional and well thought out.

Edit: Here's the acoustical guy..from his AVS profile. I'm not associated with him in any way and haven't used his services, but his posts are excellent and I'm sure could point you in the right direction even if you didn't engage his services.

Terry Montlick Laboratories
Home Theater Acoustics
Critical Listening Rooms
Design, Evaluation, Alpha Certification®
www.tmlaboratories.com

with respects to the room...not treated

with respects to the equipment...running the new denon separates (both the avp and poa) the denon blueray and new JVC projector dla2...upgraded cables (xlr and hdmi) and power cords and power conditioner.

I am leaning towards saving the money... it is just when you hear the Revels....WOW! Just not sure when I get them home...it is still a wow....??

Ask your dealer if you can bring the Revels home Sat. at close of business and return them Monday when the doors open. This will give you Sat. evening to set them up and all day Sunday to listen to them to see if the "wow" is still there. If so keep the Revels. If you're not convinced, then do the same thing with the Sigs the following weekend. Just make sure you take some notes when listening to the Revels so you can compare them to the Sigs.

Ask your dealer if you can bring the Revels home Sat. at close of business and return them Monday when the doors open. This will give you Sat. evening to set them up and all day Sunday to listen to them to see if the "wow" is still there. If so keep the Revels. If you're not convinced, then do the same thing with the Sigs the following weekend. Just make sure you take some notes when listening to the Revels so you can compare them to the Sigs.

As a retired former dealer of Paradigm, I whole heartedly agree with this recommendation. I would do this routinely with those customers who were making a big time investment with speakers or electronics. I would have them "buy" the products using their credit card, actually just a card imprint for security purposes. Take the product home on a Saturday night until we open on Tuesday's.

This allowed to reveal all of the pluses and minuses in their listening room and more often then not the shortfalls within their electronics.

We didn't sell every customer , but we did gain the trust and respect of them for future purchases.

As for the sound treatment issue, again another 1st rate suggestion. Its amazing what a couple of grand can do to make your OK sounding room, a very good sounding room without looking like a recording studio.

But I know the temptation to own the REVEL 2 is killing you. They are questionable the best full range speaker out there now given you use the best electronics and cabling. They are big and need room to breath, especially the ceilings. None of the Paradigms are in the same league as the top end Revels.

Frankly, I always found the Signature series overrated for the price. With less bang for the buck as you went up the ladder. The monitor 9 & 11 address many issues. Though to put in into perspective, over the years as the Paradigm image grew, its design and evolution moved more and more to home theater and less to the purist audiophile. For under $10k you get move up to the Vanderstine product and be done with it.

On another note, the JL fathom is unquestionably the finist sub in the market today. Though for $2800 less, look at the ********** MFW-15. Moreover, search this forum for Craig's subwoofer Sticky POSTING and read about the tested sub rankings.;)

I thought what a great Idea...I would love to have them for a day to see how they sound in my set-up....

Bad news...I tried but they will not bend....they will not let me take the speakers home.. I even offered to pay them to come to the house in hopes it would be a one-way trip...no luck. They are saying for the money they are offering they just want them gone...no problems. That they have done this in the past and have had problems!

I am truly beating myself up...the thought of getting the revels is almost unbelievable...
but the realistic side knowing I really do not have the right acoustics or the cables or the equipment... is bringing back to earth and knowing that it is mostly for HT and that the paradigm for a fraction of the cost will still product a great environment is keeping me grounded...

...on the other hand...I would love to fly with the big birds!

Thanks!

I guess my main concern is will the atoms be a good acoustic match for the Studio 20's, and it appears they are probably a good match. Nice theater btw.

I'll second the recommendation for Monitor series in back with Studio fronts. I have MiniMonitors for rear surrounds with Studio 40s, cc590 and ADPs at the sides. I would have gone with Atoms, but I got the MiniMonitors NIB for $250 when my local Paradigm dealer went belly up:o. It's hard to justify the expense of Studio 20s as surrounds and I have no isuues with the 'lowly' monitors back there! ;)

I thought what a great Idea...I would love to have them for a day to see how they sound in my set-up....

Bad news...I tried but they will not bend....they will not let me take the speakers home.. I even offered to pay them to come to the house in hopes it would be a one-way trip...no luck. They are saying for the money they are offering they just want them gone...no problems. That they have done this in the past and have had problems!

I am truly beating myself up...the thought of getting the revels is almost unbelievable...

Stop beating yourself up. The Revel Salon2 with the voice2 for $16,000 is an excellent opportunity but for that amount of cash, no in home trial should be the deal breaker.

Ginovino:

I took your advice regarding the AV123 MFW-15 Subs. What I'd like to know is your impressions of the AV123 speakers. Do you feel that they are great for their price and which one is your favorite (especially for a home theater system?) Thanks!

Stop beating yourself up. The Revel Salon2 with the voice2 for $16,000 is an excellent opportunity but for that amount of cash, no in home trial should be the deal breaker.

askeppy -

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here and say, buy the speakers and gradually build your room and system around them. The Revels have very broad and even dispersion which means they will not exhibit the same drastic tonal changes when put into an untreated room that most speakers will. Now you don't want to put the speakers into a glass house so to speak, but if you can give them three feet from any wall, place heavy drapes over windows, carpet the floor and furnish the room with soft furniture (no leather), you should be fine until you can do more elaborate treatment.

Then again, the Paradigm Sigs are great speakers and they would make a killer HT set-up.

BTW - What are your current speakers?

I can't really see spending $16,000 on speakers, especially for mainly movies, then again that is almost half a years pay for me. I do think that you will probably always wish you would have bought the Revels, if you go with the Sigs. Even if you are more than happy with the Sigs, the "what if" will always be there.
It's a pretty tough choice, I might personally make a list of everything I could do or buy with the $10k savings and weigh out the pros and cons. $10k is a nice trip to Europe, all new electronics, down payment on a new car, new appliances, a deck, a buy-in at the WSOP...the list goes on and on.

askeppy -

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here and say, buy the speakers and gradually build your room and system around them. The Revels have very broad and even dispersion which means they will not exhibit the same drastic tonal changes when put into an untreated room that most speakers will. Now you don't want to put the speakers into a glass house so to speak, but if you can give them three feet from any wall, place heavy drapes over windows, carpet the floor and furnish the room with soft furniture (no leather), you should be fine until you can do more elaborate treatment.

BTW - What are your current speakers?

If you do chose to go this route, at least take your Denon gear to the dealer and hook it up to the Revels for a few hours.

I hope you didn't purchase your Denon gear from the same dealer. If you already purchased $16K in gear from them and they won't let you take some floor models home for a couple of days you may want to consider doing business else where.

Ginovino:

I took your advice regarding the AV123 MFW-15 Subs. What I'd like to know is your impressions of the AV123 speakers. Do you feel that they are great for their price and which one is your favorite (especially for a home theater system?) Thanks!

Take a peek at this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=801958&highlight=AV123

I thought what a great Idea...I would love to have them for a day to see how they sound in my set-up....

Bad news...I tried but they will not bend....they will not let me take the speakers home.. I even offered to pay them to come to the house in hopes it would be a one-way trip...no luck. They are saying for the money they are offering they just want them gone...no problems. That they have done this in the past and have had problems!

I am truly beating myself up...the thought of getting the revels is almost unbelievable...
but the realistic side knowing I really do not have the right acoustics or the cables or the equipment... is bringing back to earth and knowing that it is mostly for HT and that the paradigm for a fraction of the cost will still product a great environment is keeping me grounded...

...on the other hand...I would love to fly with the big birds!

Sorry to jump in with another opinion, but I would say in your position to go for the Paradigm setup. If you were going for stereo music listening only, I would definitely recommend the Salons over the Paradigms. Another thought I've had, since I have no experience hearing the Salons in an HT environment, would be the impact and cleanliness of bass way down low near the Salon's limits. Would it sound as good as low-end bass from a dedicated subwoofer setup like the f113? I would also wonder how much of a strain very dynamic and low-bass packed movies would place on the Denon amp powering the Salons. I know you can bridge it, but I would still think that's going to be quite a load being placed on the amplifier if the Salons are reproducing that 20Hz material.

I think the Paradigm setup would serve you wonderfully for your movie environment. The Fathoms are incredible subs, and will certainly give that ultra-clean low-end grunt you need for movies. I also agree that money saved on the Paradigms will benefit you for acoustic treatments and the like. Another thought I had would be the future upgrades/additions to the system and their financial impact- once you get into a system like this, you're going to be forking out a lot more money for the surrounds and so on...just another thing to consider.

Either way, you are getting an incredible setup...hope you enjoy it!

Either way, you are getting an incredible setup...hope you enjoy it!

Definitely.

what does everyone feel about the legacy speakers?

what does everyone feel about the legacy speakers?

Not even close to the same league as either Revel or Paradigm. As far as I can tell they are intended to appeal to the guy that wants some big-ass speakers with tons of different drivers in them. How the use of four midrange drivers (Legacy Whisper) could ever be considered sound engineering, I'll never understand.

Yes, it says V.4. It may be that the coloring is a lot lighter than on the cc-690. The cc-690 is really a very deep bright gold color. I'm trying to get some better light on the 60's to really be able to tell. Hopefully I just jumped the gun. And if so, sorry to have bother you guys.

Thanks again.

I have the v4 60's and the tweeters are a light almost faded looking gold. It could be confused with silver if compared to a bright gold, but gold for sure.

I have the v4 60's and the tweeters are a light almost faded looking gold. It could be confused with silver if compared to a bright gold, but gold for sure.

Glad to see someone else noticed this too. After putting light on them at different angles I did find they are indeed of a gold tint. In certain lighting angles they appeared to be more silverish than gold though. Thus causing my initinal assumption. Would have perferred they match the cc-690 better though.

^
any pics for comparison?

Any recommendations for replacement screens for the mini monitor v.4?

Hello. Just picked up a pair of studio 20's v.4 last night in cherry wood. To make a long story short I'm upgrading my l/c/r/sub and i'm starting with the fronts. Fell in love w/the 20's not only for the sound but it was a perfect fit to the bookcase we have built around the HT. I am so happy with the purchase but was punched in the gut to find out that they're not magnetic shielded. I meant to ask about that at the store but just forgot...:( The store is closed today for the holiday so I won't be able to talk to them til tomorrow but it's killing me that I have these incredible speakers sitting at home not being used...only 5 minutes of use...:(

My question, for the other studio 20 v.4 owners here, is there a particular studio 20 v.4 model that is magnetically shielded? On the box I noticed that "magnetic sheild" wasn't check marked. Is it just the cherry colored speakers or are the black and rosewood the same? Kinda bummed right now but i'm hoping that it's just the cherry colored ones so I can just switch to one of the other colors. Btw, our tv is a 60" Sony SXRD and the speakers are roughly a foot away from the tv. As soon as I set the speakers up and tried them out (opera scene from 5th Element blu-ray disc) our tv had patches, almost waves of yellow and green all over. Removed the speakers and tv was back to normal...that 5 min scene never sounded so beautiful in our HT unfortunately there's no magnetic shielding.

I have a basic question I hope you guys can answer. Is there a difference when the name says Paradigm Reference studio 100 vs. Paradigm studio 100?

Hello. Just picked up a pair of studio 20's v.4 last night in cherry wood. To make a long story short I'm upgrading my l/c/r/sub and i'm starting with the fronts. Fell in love w/the 20's not only for the sound but it was a perfect fit to the bookcase we have built around the HT. I am so happy with the purchase but was punched in the gut to find out that they're not magnetic shielded. I meant to ask about that at the store but just forgot...:( The store is closed today for the holiday so I won't be able to talk to them til tomorrow but it's killing me that I have these incredible speakers sitting at home not being used...only 5 minutes of use...:(

My question, for the other studio 20 v.4 owners here, is there a particular studio 20 v.4 model that is magnetically shielded? On the box I noticed that "magnetic sheild" wasn't check marked. Is it just the cherry colored speakers or are the black and rosewood the same? Kinda bummed right now but i'm hoping that it's just the cherry colored ones so I can just switch to one of the other colors. Btw, our tv is a 60" Sony SXRD and the speakers are roughly a foot away from the tv. As soon as I set the speakers up and tried them out (opera scene from 5th Element blu-ray disc) our tv had patches, almost waves of yellow and green all over. Removed the speakers and tv was back to normal...that 5 min scene never sounded so beautiful in our HT unfortunately there's no magnetic shielding.

Upgrade to the S2's? If you love the 20's, you'll love the S2's at least a little more.

Hello. Just picked up a pair of studio 20's v.4 last night in cherry wood. To make a long story short I'm upgrading my l/c/r/sub and i'm starting with the fronts. Fell in love w/the 20's not only for the sound but it was a perfect fit to the bookcase we have built around the HT. I am so happy with the purchase but was punched in the gut to find out that they're not magnetic shielded. I meant to ask about that at the store but just forgot...:( The store is closed today for the holiday so I won't be able to talk to them til tomorrow but it's killing me that I have these incredible speakers sitting at home not being used...only 5 minutes of use...:(

My question, for the other studio 20 v.4 owners here, is there a particular studio 20 v.4 model that is magnetically shielded? On the box I noticed that "magnetic sheild" wasn't check marked. Is it just the cherry colored speakers or are the black and rosewood the same? Kinda bummed right now but i'm hoping that it's just the cherry colored ones so I can just switch to one of the other colors. Btw, our tv is a 60" Sony SXRD and the speakers are roughly a foot away from the tv. As soon as I set the speakers up and tried them out (opera scene from 5th Element blu-ray disc) our tv had patches, almost waves of yellow and green all over. Removed the speakers and tv was back to normal...that 5 min scene never sounded so beautiful in our HT unfortunately there's no magnetic shielding.

I've got the studio 20s v.4 as well (great speaker), I believe there is no shielding option on these. Mine also sit about a foot away from my TV, luckily, I have an LCD.

Can you play with placement at all, or does the speaker have to be so close? Other than that, you may be SOL.

Hello. Just picked up a pair of studio 20's v.4 last night in cherry wood. To make a long story short I'm upgrading my l/c/r/sub and i'm starting with the fronts. Fell in love w/the 20's not only for the sound but it was a perfect fit to the bookcase we have built around the HT. I am so happy with the purchase but was punched in the gut to find out that they're not magnetic shielded. I meant to ask about that at the store but just forgot...:( The store is closed today for the holiday so I won't be able to talk to them til tomorrow but it's killing me that I have these incredible speakers sitting at home not being used...only 5 minutes of use...:(

My question, for the other studio 20 v.4 owners here, is there a particular studio 20 v.4 model that is magnetically shielded? On the box I noticed that "magnetic sheild" wasn't check marked. Is it just the cherry colored speakers or are the black and rosewood the same? Kinda bummed right now but i'm hoping that it's just the cherry colored ones so I can just switch to one of the other colors. Btw, our tv is a 60" Sony SXRD and the speakers are roughly a foot away from the tv. As soon as I set the speakers up and tried them out (opera scene from 5th Element blu-ray disc) our tv had patches, almost waves of yellow and green all over. Removed the speakers and tv was back to normal...that 5 min scene never sounded so beautiful in our HT unfortunately there's no magnetic shielding.



As I understand it, you can get "Magnetic Sheilding" on any of the speakers in the Studio line. Not sure if it comes standard on the Signature line or not. It's called "Magnashield" by Paradigm. But they would have to be ordered from the factory that way, as there is an extra cost for having "Magnashield" built into the speakers. Unless the dealer has ordered some in the past and still has them on hand. You can still use the the 20's you just got, but they will have to be placed roughly two feet or more from the side of the TV. Magnetic interference from speakers does not apply to more modern types of displays such as DLP, LCD, and Plasma. The only ones affected will mainly be CRT based sets.
If I may suggest, you could buy some speaker stands for the 20's and place them futher out to the sides and your SXRD will not be affected.

I have a basic question I hope you guys can answer. Is there a difference when the name says Paradigm Reference studio 100 vs. Paradigm studio 100?

Nope, no difference. Its all in how someone chooses to use the terms. The Millenia series, Studio series, and Signature series are al under the "Reference" label.

^
any pics for comparison?

Yes, as soon as I can get a chance, I'll do my best to get some good pics to post.

Hi. New here.

I've recently purchased a pair of Studio 60 v4 speakers, with a CC590. To round out the HT setup, I would like to opt for a set of in-wall rears. Can't do 7.1 due to space, and anything other than flush mount would be met with stern :mad: disapproval from my better half .

Given the fact that this is primarily a music system, would a set of SA-10R or SA-15R speakers do the job for me? (I do have my eye on the SA-30s for the bedroom...but I'm getting ahead of myself...)

My concern is that they won't sound "right" after installing them...that's a lot of work and I wouldn't want to regret my decision.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Robert

Hey Robert.... congrats on the newly aquired system...

When I was researching for my bedroom system... I ended up moving completely away from inwall speakers...

Personally, IMO and many others, Inwall speakers are not a very good design unless they are completely closed back designs, and furthermore they will transfer resonances/vibrations directly to the wall adding unwanted sound to the audio spectrum as well as other rooms, unless major steps are taken... They do make for good ambient sound solution for whole audio, parties, but ultimately - non critical listening scenarios.....

High Quality speaker designs rely heavily on a cabinet the proper size, as well as to react with, as well as enforce the drivers contained within to operate properly.

I'm not saying that you can't use the inwalls, more like they are a really poor compromise for a speaker. I believe that you can get back boxes for Paradigm inwall speakers, and you should probably look into that if you choose to go that direction, also you should be looking to reinforce all the structure surrounding where the speakers will go. There is also something called Dynamat which will absorb and dampen vibrations or resonances.

I have found that One has to spend a considerable amount of time, thought, energy and worst of all money to implement inwalls properly if you want better then average sound.

Hope that helps a bit....

Finally finished putting my "first" dream system together. I have had two complete Monitor 7.1 systems, both V.4 & V.5, but always dreamed of owning a Studio system.

The progession got started like this: Got a good deal on a pair of floor model Studio 100s v.3. Ran them with the CC-390

Later picked up a CC690, front stage now complete. Ran that with ADP-390 surrounds and rears.

Finally this pass Wednesday I went out looking for 2 pairs of display model ADP-470s. The dealer had no more left, but gave me a great offer an 2 pairs of ADP-590's and now the system is complete.

It's a wonderful feeling to finally get what you've always wanted, even if you have to take your time doing so. The system sounds really sweet, and I'm pleasantly surprised with how much sound the ADP-590s put out for their smaller size.

The feeling of needing to add one more piece is now gone, and I finally have a speaker system that I am quite satisfied with, and can settle down with for a while at least, you all know how this hobby is!!

I want to thank my rep Sam from 6th Avenue Electronics in Paramus, NJ for providing outstanding service and support in helping me put this system together. Just wanted to share my joy.

Here's an update to my magnetic shielding Studio 20's issues. Got some good news from the company I ordered them from. Called them when they opened this am and described my situation. The rep told me that he can get me the Studio 20's in black that are magnetically shielded. 40 bucks more for those but it's all good...unfortunately they don't have them in stock so he'll order them and give me a call when they get in. Said it might take up to 3 weeks so my plans for enjoying Batman Begins on my new fronts this Tuesday will have to wait a little longer. Can't wait!

Finally finished putting my "first" dream system together. I have had two complete Monitor 7.1 systems, both V.4 & V.5, but always dreamed of owning a Studio system.

The progession got started like this: Got a good deal on a pair of floor model Studio 100s v.3. Ran them with the CC-390

Later picked up a CC690, front stage now complete. Ran that with ADP-390 surrounds and rears.

Finally this pass Wednesday I went out looking for 2 pairs of display model ADP-470s. The dealer had no more left, but gave me a great offer an 2 pairs of ADP-590's and now the system is complete.

It's a wonderful feeling to finally get what you've always wanted, even if you have to take your time doing so. The system sounds really sweet, and I'm pleasantly surprised with how much sound the ADP-590s put out for their smaller size.

The feeling of needing to add one more piece is now gone, and I finally have a speaker system that I am quite satisfied with, and can settle down with for a while at least, you all know how this hobby is!!

I want to thank my rep Sam from 6th Avenue Electronics in Paramus, NJ for providing outstanding service and support in helping me put this system together. Just wanted to share my joy.

Congrats!

Good to see a plan come together. :)

I've been searching for a small 5.1 setup something PHYSICALLY comparable to a bose system and have found the Paradigm cinema series to be quite nice. I found a local audio store that has a system setup and am going tomorrow to demo them but was just wondering if anyone here has the Cinema 90 or 110 HTiB. I like the physical looks (plastic instead of wood) and wall mounted instead of floor or bookshelf. I also think that it would be easy to upgrade in the future with the addition of 2 Surround ADP's. Also, wondering what you guys think of substituting 2 330's for the fronts?? Just a thought

I've been searching for a small 5.1 setup something PHYSICALLY comparable to a bose system and have found the Paradigm cinema series to be quite nice. I found a local audio store that has a system setup and am going tomorrow to demo them but was just wondering if anyone here has the Cinema 90 or 110 HTiB. I like the physical looks (plastic instead of wood) and wall mounted instead of floor or bookshelf. I also think that it would be easy to upgrade in the future with the addition of 2 Surround ADP's. Also, wondering what you guys think of substituting 2 330's for the fronts?? Just a thought

Take a look at Nelson57's post. We all start somewhere and build as we go when we can.

Congrats!

Good to see a plan come together. :)

Thanks John. Headen back down now to watch Vantage Point:)

I've been searching for a small 5.1 setup something PHYSICALLY comparable to a bose system and have found the Paradigm cinema series to be quite nice. I found a local audio store that has a system setup and am going tomorrow to demo them but was just wondering if anyone here has the Cinema 90 or 110 HTiB. I like the physical looks (plastic instead of wood) and wall mounted instead of floor or bookshelf. I also think that it would be easy to upgrade in the future with the addition of 2 Surround ADP's. Also, wondering what you guys think of substituting 2 330's for the fronts?? Just a thought

I can tell you from 1st hand experience, unless its purely a money issue, the Cinema series are Paradigms greatest disappointment sonically. As a former dealer of Paradigm products I have sold many sets of these to those folks who were the aforementioned, were deaf or lived in closet. When serious customers came in and asked about this model, after going through the "what equipment do you have, room size" etc, invariably they owned lackluster electronics, cheapo BOTL HDTV and didn't have a clue about surround sound, sonics, subwoofers and so on. Those customers on a limited budget would have their socks blown off when I demo'd the Atoms, Mini Monitors w/ cc190 or 290 and when the smoke cleared for about $150 more than the Cinema series , they left with a real system.

I urge you before you buy anything, listen to Paradigm Atoms and a CC190 or 290 center. You won't be disappointed. Atoms are small enough to be wall mounted using the MB 80 brackets and the cc190 can wall mounted using 1 pr of MB 80's. Then you will have a very good entry level system for just a couple of bucks more. I use the Atoms in the front & rears in a 5.1 system in one of my rooms.

Stay away for the Cinema series, you'll be really unhappy at the end of a week as they cannot play too loud before they distort. You will quickly dislike their rather non existent bass and rather thin sounds. However, They do look good with the plastic and all(their only virtue). Your biggest issue will likely finding a sub that will meet with your approval given your thoughts about the Cinema series.:(

I may be offending you,that is not my intention. I helping you NOT to make a bad decision...

good luck, seems like you'll need it.:D

I've been searching for a small 5.1 setup something PHYSICALLY comparable to a bose system and have found the Paradigm cinema series to be quite nice. I found a local audio store that has a system setup and am going tomorrow to demo them but was just wondering if anyone here has the Cinema 90 or 110 HTiB. I like the physical looks (plastic instead of wood) and wall mounted instead of floor or bookshelf. I also think that it would be easy to upgrade in the future with the addition of 2 Surround ADP's. Also, wondering what you guys think of substituting 2 330's for the fronts?? Just a thought

I originally had the Cinema 110's with an extra set of ADP's for the rear surrounds. I know some people don't like them, but they sounded pretty good to me as my first step (coming from some little Polk's in my family room).

I also bought a separate subwoofer, but the one that came with them is okay.

About a year or so later, I jumped right from them to the Signatures, so I never got a chance to try out the rest of the line. I'm not sure of the price differences, but I'd encourage you to listen to some of the other speakers and see if the cost/sound is worth it to you?

The best advice I never took was that speakers are the most important part of a theater, and you should generally budget as much for them as all other equipment combined (AVR/pre-pro/amp, TV/projector/screen, etc.).

But if you like the Cinema's, you'll be happy with them for a little bit, I'm sure. I know I was (until I went on a listening spree).

As ginvino pointed out it was a waf speaker when Paradigm came out with the Cinema
series a compromise that surprised me coming from such a great company but as
with a lot of companies here of late they are jockeying for your paycheck.

I have already purchased an Onkyo 606, so I hope that was the right move. I have never purchased or researched speakers or receivers before this so I'm going out on a limb in this department. I can only judge physically for right now and I really like the appearance of the Cinema 110 series. My budget for the speakers would probably max out at $1500.... I know these probably won't cost that much, but I think I would be happy with them for a while like you said and I hope they will perform well with the Onkyo 606.... I just need to go listen to a demo and see for myself.... I really appreciate all the input and your not offending me at all. i know NOTHING about speakers or receivers so all the info is appreciated. I just want a nice system of 5.1 satellites that will be able to output HD audio from the Onkyo

For $1500 you can get a set of Atoms, surround and sub. Like everyone else say, it is best to listen to some speakers before buying. When I went to buy my 290cc to go alone with my Titan, I hearhd the Cinamas and to be true, just about and htib wound come close to sound. If I new how good the Atoms sound before I bought my Titans, I would had gotten them. If you woud look at Audiogon and Ebay you can find some pretty resonable and manage to get a good sub with it.

" I hearhd the Cinamas and to be true, just about and htib wound come close to sound. If I new how good the Atoms sound before I bought my Titans"[/QUOTE]

What are you saying here? I cannot translate it. Please rewrite it in a manner we can decipher:D

thanks:)

" I hearhd the Cinamas and to be true, just about and htib wound come close to sound. If I new how good the Atoms sound before I bought my Titans"

What are you saying here? I cannot translate it. Please rewrite it in a manner we can decipher:D

thanks:)[/QUOTE]

Oh sorry!!! I heard them on demo at the store and you might can get a HTIB that sounds just as good.

What are you saying here? I cannot translate it. Please rewrite it in a manner we can decipher:D

thanks:)

Oh sorry!!! I heard them on demo at the store and you might can get a HTIB that sounds just as good.[/QUOTE]

Thats another reason I'm leaning toward the Paradigm 110's. Paradigm offers a HTIB setup with these. I was just going to find out if customization by adding 2 extra surrounds or replacing the 2 fronts with 330's would be any improvement.

Oh sorry!!! I heard them on demo at the store and you might can get a HTIB that sounds just as good.

Thats another reason I'm leaning toward the Paradigm 110's. Paradigm offers a HTIB setup with these. I was just going to find out if customization by adding 2 extra surrounds or replacing the 2 fronts with 330's would be any improvement.

Just my .02

If your looking for improvement in home theater look at the center channel. For movies the majority of your info is coming from the center channel so if you want to improve your "sound" start there.

What ever you do don't get talked into something you can't afford. If your budget says cinema 110s them stay within your budget and get them. Then start upgrading as money allows. Once you have a system you're less likely to jump on anything that comes along and are willing to wait on a deal. Again take a look at Nelson57's post. He started with the monitors then moved up to the studios a step at a time and was able to get some good deals along the way.

Just my .02

If your looking for improvement in home theater look at the center channel. For movies the majority of your info is coming from the center channel so if you want to improve your "sound" start there.

What ever you do don't get talked into something you can't afford. If your budget says cinema 110s them stay within your budget and get them. Then start upgrading as money allows. Once you have a system you're less likely to jump on anything that comes along and are willing to wait on a deal. Again take a look at Nelson57's post. He started with the monitors then moved up to the studios a step at a time and was able to get some good deals along the way.

I totally agree with this. I'm putting my system together slowly as money permits. I've had some decent electronics and speakers for a while but wanted to move on to some better gear, and since I don't have disposiable funds, I've buying what I can when I can. Starting with new speakers. I got my Studio 60's still NIB from someone localish at a good price. Next I got an extremely good deal on a new CC-690 from a local dealer. Probably around the first of next month I'll get the ADP-590's, again at a good deal (already have quote).
I'll be going an econo route with newer electronics (but still good stuff) with the new products from Emotiva. Last month I got their XPA-5 amp, and have pre-ordered their UMC-1. Futher down the road I plan on picking up a couple of their XPA-2's. And somewhere in the near future I intend to get either HSU's new ULS-15 in Rosenut, or going the passive route and getting a couple SVS 16-46 CS-Pluses.

So.... I have a plan for the future, a road map if you will. But doing so as money permits. I would like to possibly move into the Studio 100's at some point, just not sure if it would really benifit me that much. If I do, I'd try find a good used pair of v.2's. Do you guys think there would be a voice matching issue between the v.2 100's and the CC-690/ADP-590's?

Just my .02

If your looking for improvement in home theater look at the center channel. For movies the majority of your info is coming from the center channel so if you want to improve your "sound" start there.

What ever you do don't get talked into something you can't afford. If your budget says cinema 110s them stay within your budget and get them. Then start upgrading as money allows. Once you have a system you're less likely to jump on anything that comes along and are willing to wait on a deal. Again take a look at Nelson57's post. He started with the monitors then moved up to the studios a step at a time and was able to get some good deals along the way.

I agree as well.

Finally finished putting my "first" dream system together. I have had two complete Monitor 7.1 systems, both V.4 & V.5, but always dreamed of owning a Studio system.

The progession got started like this: Got a good deal on a pair of floor model Studio 100s v.3. Ran them with the CC-390

Later picked up a CC690, front stage now complete. Ran that with ADP-390 surrounds and rears.

Finally this pass Wednesday I went out looking for 2 pairs of display model ADP-470s. The dealer had no more left, but gave me a great offer an 2 pairs of ADP-590's and now the system is complete.

It's a wonderful feeling to finally get what you've always wanted, even if you have to take your time doing so. The system sounds really sweet, and I'm pleasantly surprised with how much sound the ADP-590s put out for their smaller size.

The feeling of needing to add one more piece is now gone, and I finally have a speaker system that I am quite satisfied with, and can settle down with for a while at least, you all know how this hobby is!!

I want to thank my rep Sam from 6th Avenue Electronics in Paramus, NJ for providing outstanding service and support in helping me put this system together. Just wanted to share my joy.


Nelson,

I currently have the Monitor 7 V.4 system with a PW2100 sub and keep getting the itch to read through too many speaker threads so I'll likely be upgrading shortly. I can only fight it for so long :( Would you mind giving some details impressions comparing the the 7 V.4 with the studios, when you get a chance? Greatly appreciated. I'm about 40HT/30Gaming/15cable/5music.

Also, wondering what you guys think of substituting 2 330's for the fronts?? Just a thought

I started off with 330's for L/R. After pairing with CC-90 and 110 as center channel, the "easy" match was to get a third 330 for the middle. The first two center channels seemed to be over-powered and we were losing dialog. Knowing what I "think" I know now, this probably had more to do with the room or level set-up but at least they match asthetically.:D

WAF had a lot to do with it because this setup is in a main living space and we couldn't be tripping over floor-standers that needed to be a foot or so into the room. The surrounds and rears are all in-ceiling and a PDR-10 handles the bass. The circumstances were not going to allow floor-standing or wall mounted speakers all around. My initial angle was the BOSE simply because of the size, but the cubes would have looked odd.

Sound-wise, maybe I'm "blessed" with not knowing the difference (or at least being bothered by it enough to return), but this set-up works fine for now. There have been plenty of "wow" sonic experiences watching movies or listening to music.

This is not to say that the "search" has ended because I am always looking for a way upstream. However, I have not found a similar speaker that makes enough of a difference to switch. Most L/C/Rs like these are about the same price range and it just doesn't seem worth it to spend about the same amount for a marginal increase in performance. Most likely, it will take a move to a foor-standing pair that will open up the options - but that will have to be for a room that can acommodate them.

There is a Cinema thread around here somewhere (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=666308)- maybe to fly under the radar below all of these fancy speakers.:D There are many options at this price point but the price point is never as low as it starts out to be - especially when adding additional speakers.:D

Happy speaker hunting!

I've been searching for a small 5.1 setup something PHYSICALLY comparable to a bose system and have found the Paradigm cinema series to be quite nice. I found a local audio store that has a system setup and am going tomorrow to demo them but was just wondering if anyone here has the Cinema 90 or 110 HTiB. I like the physical looks (plastic instead of wood) and wall mounted instead of floor or bookshelf. I also think that it would be easy to upgrade in the future with the addition of 2 Surround ADP's. Also, wondering what you guys think of substituting 2 330's for the fronts?? Just a thought

I have the 90's and Atoms and I'm 100% in line with everyone that the Atoms do sound better, and I wouldn't want to put the 90's in the place of my Atoms, but I think we may be missing his point. He says he wants something PHYSICALLY comparable to Bose. If that's the case, the Cinema 90 or 110 system would probably be a good setup for him. If he wants the best SOUNDING system he can get for 1500, then he might be better off looking into the Monitor line. It seems like looks trump sound for him, and that's OK...for him. :)

I have the 90's and Atoms and I'm 100% in line with everyone that the Atoms do sound better, and I wouldn't want to put the 90's in the place of my Atoms, but I think we may be missing his point. He says he wants something PHYSICALLY comparable to Bose. If that's the case, the Cinema 90 or 110 system would probably be a good setup for him. If he wants the best SOUNDING system he can get for 1500, then he might be better off looking into the Monitor line. It seems like looks trump sound for him, and that's OK...for him. :)

Yes, your likely correct on this one. What a loss and a shame:(

Why not just buy the BOSE POS and be done with it:confused:

I wish him well nonetheless:)

What do you think of the Millienia Series? The Millenia 30s in particular. They look gorgeous, which is important as they will be wall mounted in our family room next to our new Pioneer Elite Kuro Pro-151. They will be almost exclusively used for Movies, Sports and general Television watching.

What do you think of the Millienia Series? The Millenia 30s in particular. They look gorgeous, which is important as they will be wall mounted in our family room next to our new Pioneer Elite Kuro Pro-151. They will be almost exclusively used for Movies, Sports and general Television watching.

I don't think very much of them. They are a glorified version of the Cinema series to appeal to the glitzy crowd. They sound as bad as the Cinema's only louder.

Though let me add, they and cinema's sound better than any BOSE POS.

Finally finished putting my "first" dream system together. I have had two complete Monitor 7.1 systems, both V.4 & V.5, but always dreamed of owning a Studio system.

The progession got started like this: Got a good deal on a pair of floor model Studio 100s v.3. Ran them with the CC-390

Later picked up a CC690, front stage now complete. Ran that with ADP-390 surrounds and rears.

Finally this pass Wednesday I went out looking for 2 pairs of display model ADP-470s. The dealer had no more left, but gave me a great offer an 2 pairs of ADP-590's and now the system is complete.

It's a wonderful feeling to finally get what you've always wanted, even if you have to take your time doing so. The system sounds really sweet, and I'm pleasantly surprised with how much sound the ADP-590s put out for their smaller size.

The feeling of needing to add one more piece is now gone, and I finally have a speaker system that I am quite satisfied with, and can settle down with for a while at least, you all know how this hobby is!!

I want to thank my rep Sam from 6th Avenue Electronics in Paramus, NJ for providing outstanding service and support in helping me put this system together. Just wanted to share my joy.

hey, i know sam!!! hes a tiny guy that gives huge discounts, lol. i bought my mini's from him!!! ill be dealing with them from now on

ginovino,

As an ex paradigm dealer, where in Paradigm's line up (ranging from Monitors/Studio/Sig) do you see the strenghts and weaknesses compared to the competition at a similar price.

Example: the monitor 11/CC390/ADP590 combo is great for it's price range and class but you can do better with X/Y/Z brand if you were getting the Sig 8's/C5/ADP3.

I think it'd be a big help for the exisiting owners looking to move up or new comers looking to get their first good HT system. I understand not everyone will agree but it'll be a good perspective from someone who has likely experienced their entire line up routinely!

ginovino,

As an ex paradigm dealer, where in Paradigm's line up (ranging from Monitors/Studio/Sig) do you see the strenghts and weaknesses compared to the competition at a similar price.

Example: the monitor 11/CC390/ADP590 combo is great for it's price range and class but you can do better with X/Y/Z brand if you were getting the Sig 8's/C5/ADP3.

I think it'd be a big help for the exisiting owners looking to move up or new comers looking to get their first good HT system. I understand not everyone will agree but it'll be a good perspective from someone who has likely experienced their entire line up routinely!

Good question and also on the bookshelves too... Titans, Studio 20,40s, and S1, S2, S4.

With regard to the millenia 30 I couldn't agree more. After a long anticipation I went last week to test them in soundcity NY, BTW, soundcity in NJ is changing owners so they no longer carry paradigms!

I listened to a varitey of CD's on the milliena 30 and was very disappointment, I asked the seller to switch to the studio 20. what a change!!! unbelievable, I was so happy with it. My problem is that I need to wall mount the speaker and I cannot wall mount the 20'...

Does anyone has any experience with the Studio Esprit???? I cannot find a review anywhere...

Warpdrv mounted his 20's with a bracket he posted earlier in this thread .

hey, i know sam!!! hes a tiny guy that gives huge discounts, lol. i bought my mini's from him!!! ill be dealing with them from now on

Hey themiz, you got it right that describes Sam:) He is a great guy, and a serious AV enthusiast. You can find him lingering around various threads in the forum as Rino13. I'm waiting for him to get the Pioneer blu-ray players in, but I purchased my entire Paradigm setup from him, and he was a pleasure to deal with. I'll tell him we connected the next time I see him.

Saw the Owner's Thread and thought I would add my setup:

Paradigm Studio 100's v4
Paradigm Studio ccc-690 v4
Paradigm ADP 590's v4
Paradigm PS1000 Sub
Panasonic 50" Plasma
Marantz SR 4001
Anthem MCA 50 Amplifier
Oppo 981 DVD/CD/SACD Player
Monster HT5100 Power Conditioner
Xbox 360 with HD-DVD player
AudioQuest G-Snake Interconnects
AudioQuest Type 4 Speaker Cables
Monster Sub Cable
Universal Remote Control (URC) MX-980
HP 873n Microsoft Media Center

It's coming along nicely! And it rocks!

Thanks,

Mick

Saw the Owner's Thread and thought I would add my setup:

Paradigm Studio 100's v4
Paradigm Studio ccc-690 v4
Paradigm ADP 590's v4
Paradigm PS1000 Sub
Panasonic 50" Plasma
Marantz SR 4001
Anthem MCA 50 Amplifier
Oppo 981 DVD/CD/SACD Player
Monster HT5100 Power Conditioner
Xbox 360 with HD-DVD player
AudioQuest G-Snake Interconnects
AudioQuest Type 4 Speaker Cables
Monster Sub Cable
Universal Remote Control (URC) MX-980
HP 873n Microsoft Media Center

It's coming along nicely! And it rocks!

Thanks,

Mick

marklabelle870, that's the same speaker set I'm looking into now. What other speakers did you listen to or consider when making your decision to go with the Studios and how did they compare? How would describe the Studio sound quality in regards to music? movies?

Saw the Owner's Thread and thought I would add my setup:

Paradigm Studio 100's v4
Paradigm Studio ccc-690 v4
Paradigm ADP 590's v4
Paradigm PS1000 Sub
Panasonic 50" Plasma
Marantz SR 4001
Anthem MCA 50 Amplifier
Oppo 981 DVD/CD/SACD Player
Monster HT5100 Power Conditioner
Xbox 360 with HD-DVD player
AudioQuest G-Snake Interconnects
AudioQuest Type 4 Speaker Cables
Monster Sub Cable
Universal Remote Control (URC) MX-980
HP 873n Microsoft Media Center

It's coming along nicely! And it rocks!

Thanks,

Mick

Very nice setup Mick, enjoy!

Hey themiz, you got it right that describes Sam:) He is a great guy, and a serious AV enthusiast. You can find him lingering around various threads in the forum as Rino13. I'm waiting for him to get the Pioneer blu-ray players in, but I purchased my entire Paradigm setup from him, and he was a pleasure to deal with. I'll tell him we connected the next time I see him.

u know what, i talked to him on a forum a WHILE back and he was trying to help me out with a definitive tchnology setup i was looking into. i forgot what the username was but now that u mention it, it was him! funny how things work out. ill be going back to 6th ave some time in august to pick up a mitsu hc1500 proj. its a pretty good hike for me seeing as how i live in PA!!!

With regard to the millenia 30 I couldn't agree more. After a long anticipation I went last week to test them in soundcity NY, BTW, soundcity in NJ is changing owners so they no longer carry paradigms!

I listened to a varitey of CD's on the milliena 30 and was very disappointment, I asked the seller to switch to the studio 20. what a change!!! unbelievable, I was so happy with it. My problem is that I need to wall mount the speaker and I cannot wall mount the 20'...

Does anyone has any experience with the Studio Esprit???? I cannot find a review anywhere...

soundcity NJ is where i got my paradigm front 3. i thought they were closing down completely??? i work like 5 seconds away from there.

Saw the Owner's Thread and thought I would add my setup:

Paradigm Studio 100's v4
Paradigm Studio ccc-690 v4
Paradigm ADP 590's v4
Paradigm PS1000 Sub
Panasonic 50" Plasma
Marantz SR 4001
Anthem MCA 50 Amplifier
Oppo 981 DVD/CD/SACD Player
Monster HT5100 Power Conditioner
Xbox 360 with HD-DVD player
AudioQuest G-Snake Interconnects
AudioQuest Type 4 Speaker Cables
Monster Sub Cable
Universal Remote Control (URC) MX-980
HP 873n Microsoft Media Center

It's coming along nicely! And it rocks!

Thanks,

Mick

You have compiled some nice gear. Just some thoughts and observations which turn out to be recommendations from my own personal experiences.
I recommend only what I have or are using in my 2 systems or in my 2 channel listening room.

1) Ditch the AQ type 4 and get Kimber 8TC, if money is an issue drop to the 4TC, also look at the Anti Cable site for sother good sounding stuff at great precious, you will never look back.

2) LOOSE the Paradigm sub and get a ********** MFW-15 for $700 delivered, its ranked 3rd in the sub rankings on THIS FORUM (Craigs sub woofer postings) slightly behind the JL fathom113 which is 5x the price!!!

3) Dump the Monster sub cable and get AQ Sub3 48v powered cable. I am using it on my MFW-15 and Snell Basis 300. In each case it elevated their performance by 25-35%. Well worth the price!

4) The Marantz is fine until you get some serious green in your pocket. Then go out, look at the New Onkyo Integra TX-NR905, Yammie 3800 AND the Denon 4308ci. Each of these are substantially better performers given the equipment you have compiled. Everything I suggested , plus what you can sell the old stuff for, maybe your out of pocket is $1500 overall... But oh my, will you have a delicious sounding and satisfying system which you will enjoy for many years to come!:D:D:D

Good luck!:)

ginovino,

As an ex paradigm dealer, where in Paradigm's line up (ranging from Monitors/Studio/Sig) do you see the strenghts and weaknesses compared to the competition at a similar price.

Example: the monitor 11/CC390/ADP590 combo is great for it's price range and class but you can do better with X/Y/Z brand if you were getting the Sig 8's/C5/ADP3.

I think it'd be a big help for the exisiting owners looking to move up or new comers looking to get their first good HT system. I understand not everyone will agree but it'll be a good perspective from someone who has likely experienced their entire line up routinely!

I am sorry I didn't respond sooner. Thank you for your confidence in my recommendations. Like with everyone else, I have a bias as well but it leans towards the higher priced speakers. I'll say this once and only once for the last time: The Paradigm signature series on the high end is overrated at their price point. The Sig 20 & 40 are very nice and the monitor CC260-590 great, the ADP's also very good.

I like the SVS line, but pick and choose carefully.

I am very hot on Vanderstine 2ce for the fronts and the rest of the line won't leave you wanting.

Snell is also very good , but it will set you back close to $4K without sub.

I own and have auditioned the AV123 series of speakers.... very very good , sound, build quality. 30day return policy makes trying worth it. I use their mfw-15 subs.

If space and decor is not an issue, the small Magnepans for $600 a pair direct would give you realism untouched anywhere. I like them alot.

Did this cover the spectrum?:D

I have been a big paradigm fan for many years and have montier 11 cc370 adp 350 pw 2200. I now have a chance to buy some reference 40 v2 with stands for 450.00 for a bed room 2 channel system, they are in pristine condition. does anyboby know what these run in price, also 150. gas money to pick them up (my choice).

Warpdrv mounted his 20's with a bracket he posted earlier in this thread .

The mounts I used were the B-Tech BT-77, they are the best for the Studio 20's... Very Happy with the build quality...

The Paradigm signature series on the high end is overrated at their price point. The Sig 20 & 40 are very nice and the monitor CC260-590 great, the ADP's also very good.



Not sure what your pointing out here gino... The Sig S2 and S4 or the Studio 20 and 40's...

I think you are right about the Signatures being a bit overpriced, but the cabinetry is certainly far better looking and heavier built then the Studio series.... If you buy the Sigs second hand then they are certainly worth every penny... heck even second Studio's are a great buy with quite a discount. I know that as a dealer, or ex dealer you don't care too much for that type of discussion, but truth be told the Sigs sound much tighter and cleaner then the studios, but they aren't worth double the price...

I'm glad I had the opportunity to get my Sigs second hand, but still new in box in the Rosewood, which is a fabulous finish that has been unfortunately been discontinued...

Can anybody tell me if the 20 v2 are bi amp capable I know the 40"s are but wanted know if these were.

Can anybody tell me if the 20 v2 are bi amp capable I know the 40"s are but wanted know if these were.

The 20 v2 are in the Audio Bluebook used between $380 -$530.. avg is $490.00

Most recent sales have been in the $450 range. Hope that helps:)

Can the 20"s be bi wired v2

I was referring to the Signature line S4-S8. IMHO there are many better sounding products in their price range out there for review. Albeit, they may not be as visually appealing. Vanderstines come to mind almost immediately.

Certainly, if you can acquire them used --go for it!. But as for buying new, bad move, as most Paradigm dealers will not exceed a 15% discount. This is further compounded by the devaluation of the dollar vs. foreign currencies, including Canadian.
In fact, Paradigm had 2 price increases within the last 12 months and they were fast to implement them on the dealers. Outfits like 6th ave Electronics inventories quite a bit of stock and thereby gets a better wholesale arrangement of the financing and shipping costs for the product they order in quantity. The wholesale price for all dealers is 60% of MSRP.

The poster was asking my opinion about getting Siggies, I took artistic license to expand my answer and provide MHO of the siggies at large.

Can the 20"s be bi wired v2

All of the Studio series are bi-wireable:

http://www.paradigm.com/en/pdf/user_manuals/OwnersManual_studio20.pdf

Cross posting this here because it's not getting a response on the general speaker forum.

I need some advice on speaker placement and selection for my HT. I'll have a 50" HDTV with a couple of Paradigm Titans v.2, a C-50, and 10" sub being pushed by a H/K 5.1 AVR 40w/ch. This room will be used for TV, movies, football, and hockey. Room size is 16'x12'9"x8'h. With the doors closed, it's completely sealed with one double window with 2" wood blinds behind TV.

The speakers I'm considering and why, for my SS are:

Paradigm Atoms - Good for timber matching, but they look too big to hang on the wall for aesthetic reasons. I know they sound great as a stand alone speaker so they sound be fine for surrounds.

Paradigm Cinema 90 - They hide a lot better. Good price. I haven't heard them yet though. I'm not sure how they will sound with my exisiting parts.

Paradigm Cinema ADP or Monitor ADP -190. I realize that these two speakers are very different. I just don't know if dipoles would work in my room (see attachment). I have not adutioned either of these yet either. The 190's are kinda pricey for my budget also.

I do have some flexablity in the front/back placement. On the left side of my room, the height, however is the limiting factor. Being above the door frame, right at the ceiling, it will sit about 4' higher than the listener (me, 6' tall)

With my room would the ADP's be better/same/worse than the direct fire?
Is the height placement a big factor with any of these?
Any advice, positive or negitive is welcome. I've been lurking here a while and it seems I have more questions than I started with...but that's a good thing, right?:rolleyes:
Thanks

For starters you must keep an open mind with regard to costs to accomplish your goal.

Earlier in this posting there is much said about the Cinema series in general, consensus was to forgo this line. Moving up to the Atoms or better yet the Mini monitors or the Titans are even better for Fronts and the Atoms are designed for wall mount using the mb80 mounts.

Any of the ADP series will produce a very diffuse soundfield by themselves. They should be used mostly when you plan to use REARS as well (7.1). If the ADP 190 is stretching your budget then you indeed bottom fishing:)

The adp190's list for $500pr and cost the dealer $335, meanwhile the Mini monitors list for $438 and cost the dealer $263 and the Titans list for $558 and cost $335.

As far as rear (side) placement should be 1/3rd the distance from ceiling to floor behind the main sitting area. You have a 1700cu ft room and your driving it with a 40watt amp?

The speakers I suggested can handle over 100rms, Though your little amp will choke and distort when trying to keep up with the soundtracks.

IMHO, you got bigger issues than speaker placement. Understand I'm not trying to scare you off, but there is no way to cheap it and accomplish a worthwhile effort.

Ginovino,

I noticed through prev posts that you have persistently criticized the Signature series, as per your experience as a dealer years back. Have you had much experience with the latest Sig v2 offerings, and does your opinion (overrated, overpriced) apply to these (?)

I have read ALOT about the Cinema's...the little good was only in a budget HTiB and thats not what I'm after. I agree and am leaning toward the Atoms. The Paradigm Titans v.2, C-50, and the 10" sub I've had for 10 years. They are nice and seasoned BTW.

My budget for rears is about $300. I'm just having a hard time thinking about spending over $500 for rear surrounds. If the ADP's are going to be twice as good as the Atoms then I could probably justify it.

I'm also budgeting for the TV. I've bought the TV stand and Amp already. The amp is H/K and they underrate their power so I think I'm fine with 40w/ch. I did a lot of reasearch on that as well, and the reviews were that it held it's own with 100/w + AVR's. I've got and old Sony DE435, right now, which has 100w/ch, but no 5.1, and it pushes the *@%$ out of what i have now at >25% volume.

It will be impossible to to place the left rear speaker at the "optimal" position due to the door. What is the next best place? If I lower it to the 1/3 rule, it will be in the corner of back and side walls, or 90 degrees/slightly ahead of the listening position. I am assuming that both left and right rears need to be the exact mirrior to each other, right?

Thanks for the reply ginovino. My mind is very open to money I haven't spent yet :D. My goal is to have a nice room to watch movies with the wife and my little girl and then kick them out on Sundays form 12 to 9. I'm not going for the perfect setup, just a few Wow's from guests every once in a while.

I'm sure I stand a chance of getting blasted for suggesting this... BUt I have been running Axiom QS8's with my Studio 60's and CC-690 for a little while, and would have to say, they match really, really well. They are a great surround speaker and are not all that expensive compared to the cost of the Paradigms. Mine are v.1's so mot sure if there was a sonic change with their newer v.2 but I would doubt it. The Boston Cherry finish is not an exact match for my Rosenut finish, but when mounted at the other end of the room, they blend very well.

Just a thought.

ginovino,

Thanks much for your repsonse to my questions. Currently I have the Monitor 7 fronts, CC370 center and ADP 570 surroudns, all V.4 with a PW2100 sub. Powered by an Onkyo 705 receiver. Right now, I just got done learning proper placement and calibration measurement (lots of damn reading!) and now I'm working on learning about acoustical treatments. It was a bedroom before but now it's much more of a theater room and with all the small changes to the room, things sound a lot better!

Once I'm done with the room, I might consider upgrading to the Studio series all around with a AV123 sub and an amp to run the front 3 and let the receiver run the surrounds. I'm mainly into movies so 2ch audio fidelity isn't of the utmost concern.

I have a chance to buy a CC390 for a farily decent price. I've currently got a cc290 matched with v5 M9's. I really love the looks of the 390 - like everyone else- but I'm wondering if it's worth it or not. Is it any more clear than than the cc290? My room is about 16x16.

I have a chance to buy a CC390 for a farily decent price. I've currently got a cc290 matched with v5 M9's. I really love the looks of the 390 - like everyone else- but I'm wondering if it's worth it or not. Is it any more clear than than the cc290? My room is about 16x16.

did not get a chance to compare the 390 to the 290 but i think the 390 sounds phenominal! plus the aesthetics are amazing! pop that grill off and drop jaws!!!

I'll say this once and only once for the last time: The Paradigm signature series on the high end is overrated at their price point.

My experience with the Signatures has been just the opposite. I think the Paradigm Sigs are fantastic speakers, and I've been through many (just check the link in my signature). I don't think they get the credit they deserve in the high-end market because they have the Paradigm name on them, which has established its self as a value brand. It's like Honda creating a car to compete with a Porsche. They certainly have all of the engineering prowess to do so, but very few would buy a high-end Honda. The Sigs have a nicely balanced sound, a broad soundstage, and excellent detail without sounding bright or aggressive. And when it comes to objective performance, they excel there too in all of the areas of significance-- flat frequency response, broad dispersion, low distortion, and transient response. A lot of what you pay for in high-end speakers or high-end anything is the quality of workmanship, exclusivity, lower production volumes, etc., etc., etc. If the S8's were to come from a smaller company, they would cost twice as much. Maybe then they would get the credit they deserve. :cool:



I think you are right about the Signatures being a bit overpriced, but the cabinetry is certainly far better looking and heavier built then the Studio series.... but truth be told the Sigs sound much tighter and cleaner then the studios, but they aren't worth double the price...


As has been said many times before me, you pay a handsome sum to get that last 10% of performance. Paying twice price for the Sigs over the Studios may not seem like a good deal at first glance, but those nice cabinets cost a lot more to make than the vinyl covered lightweight cabinets on the Studios. It's like going from IKEA furniture to Ethan Allen. And the curved, more solid cabinets on the Sigs also contribute to the better sound that they produce.

Just my two cents. :)

I have a chance to buy a CC390 for a farily decent price. I've currently got a cc290 matched with v5 M9's. I really love the looks of the 390 - like everyone else- but I'm wondering if it's worth it or not. Is it any more clear than than the cc290? My room is about 16x16.

I wonder the same thing, but the cc 290 sounds good still.

Just want to say I will soon be owner of Paradigms. Order about week or so ago and waiting for Studio 100 to arrive. I will pick up cc-590 at the same time.