Steve great idea should have thought of that. I am trying to get her or give her the idea that we need those great theater recliners. The black leather babies. Then the back wall would not be a problem. That ought to go over big. I could buy a lot of speaker for the price of those two chairs. Even move up to those
Sig 2's.

Sit on the floor and get some S8's :D

Sorry, deaf, those sig floorstanders are a little over the old budget. I really need to stay close to the Monitor and Studio line. Question hows does your room sound with the wood floors ?

Hello all , I am upgrading my center speaker from a CC-350 to a Ref
I now have 40's v.3 but $$ is tight . I came across a nice deal on a CC-450 But I was looking for a CC Ref .I know the 450 is V.1 and the CC is V.2 -I can not fit the CC-470 in my space and like I said money is tight
What is the diffrence in the CC450 & the CC?
I think it will be a major inprovement from my CC-350 But not the best choice
any thoughts ?

Huh..

Not quite following, Antman..

The old reference line center was the CC-450, which I have now (I bought them like 8 years ago).

Now I think it's called a CC-570 or something..

Are you asking wether you should get the CC-450's OR the fronts the 40 v.3's?

Huh..

Not quite following, Antman..

The old reference line center was the CC-450, which I have now (I bought them like 8 years ago).

Now I think it's called a CC-570 or something..

Are you asking wether you should get the CC-450 OR fronts (the 40 v.3's)?

I already have 40's V.3 up front BUT I only have a CC-350 now
I came across a good deal on a CC-450
I know its not the best choise But I think its better than my CC-350 (I would hope)
I can not fit the newer CC-470 it is taller than the older CC & CC-450
So what is the diffrence in the older CC-450 Vs the V.2 CC studio ?

Ahh.. Got it..

Can't help you there.. What's the price difference?

You should go with what would be the best tweeter match with the rest of your set-up..

The new cc-470 are about $450 -$500 used the CC V.2 is $350-$375 used
I will be getting a CC-450 $300 shipped And than sell my CC-350

Hey doug zdanivsky what are the dimentions of the CC-450 is it the same as the CC
21 x 8-1/16 x 11-5/8in.

I'm not at home right now to get the measurements..

If the Paradigm website doesn't have them, I'll be home on the 27th, if someone else doesn't supply that answer first..

In the mean time I would email the guys at Paradigm and ask this question, AND which center channel would best match the rest of your speakers in terms of tweeter/driver size..

Need some advice here. I am doing this set up with the 100's and am getting NO bass out of them. The listening area is about 15' away in a 20' long room (25' wide).
I have moved them all around from close to the walls to 3' out and as close the the rack as I can and nothing. If I stand at the back wall I'll get a little, but not what I think I should be getting. They sound like Mini's!
Yes, they are set to large. And yes that's a Rotel 1095 driving them. Plus I am using the Servo15v2 and anywhere along the front wall/front sides there is nothing at the listening postion. Course anywhere else in the room there is plenty.

Help!

I'm buying [this friday :)] the Studio 60's fronts, 570 center, and two pairs of the SA-15R in ceiling for the surrounds in a 7.1 system. The room is pretty small at 13'x14' and was wondering if anyone else has a similar in ceiling setup? Any opinions or advice? It's either in ceiling for 7.1 or the studio 20's in the back and a center for 6.1.

The price difference between 2 pairs of SA-15R for the 7.1, and 1 pair studio-20+470 center for the 6.1 is only $220.

It's a question of 7.1 vs 6.1 and ceiling vs. satellites.

I'm buying [this friday :)] the Studio 60's fronts, 570 center, and two pairs of the SA-15R in ceiling for the surrounds in a 7.1 system. The room is pretty small at 13'x14' and was wondering if anyone else has a similar in ceiling setup? Any opinions or advice? It's either in ceiling for 7.1 or the studio 20's in the back and a center for 6.1.

I'm running a similar, 5.1 set-up, with the SA-15R (60s, 470 v.3 and Servo v.2). Due to my room constraints (i.e. surrounds would be "in the way" and cosmetic reasons), I chose to go with the SA-15R. I am satisifed and happy with the decision - the in-ceilings meets my sonic expectations, and look "clean".

There are others that installed themselfs, I think on this form, but I wimped out. I think the most challenging part would have been running the wires for me - installing the speakers looked pretty straight forward.

Enjoy the new x-mas toys.

Sweet! Thanks for the quick reply! I don't have the opportunity to audition the SA-15R's and your post is really re-assuring :)

Need some advice here. I am doing this set up with the 100's and am getting NO bass out of them. The listening area is about 15' away in a 20' long room (25' wide).
I have moved them all around from close to the walls to 3' out and as close the the rack as I can and nothing. If I stand at the back wall I'll get a little, but not what I think I should be getting. They sound like Mini's!
Yes, they are set to large. And yes that's a Rotel 1095 driving them. Plus I am using the Servo15v2 and anywhere along the front wall/front sides there is nothing at the listening postion. Course anywhere else in the room there is plenty.

Help!

I assume you have the "correct" set-up on your receiver, but out of curiousity what is the x-over set at, and have you calibrated SPLs on your system (just to see what kind of output you are getting?

I am running 60s (primarily set to small) and Servo v.2 and bass is not an issue, generally. I'm sure my room size, no larger than yours and extends to other rooms, is far from ideal with regards to bass response. But I made sure to set proper x-over settings (pre-amp and the Servo itself) and "calibrate" with the RS SPL Meter.

Sweet! Thanks for the quick reply! I don't have the opportunity to audition the SA-15R's and your post is really re-assuring :)

NP. Yeah, that's the thing with in-ceilings, you really can't audition them too thoroughly - assuming they even have them set-up at the dealers. If your dealer is willing, you may want to buy them, hang them (edit: connected with speaker cable of course) where you would have them installed to see if you like it. It's not ideal, but it's probably the closest thing to cutting the hole and the whole nine yards...

I just took a chance since the other option was to hang some bookshelves - would would look tacky in my room, and, it just wouldn't be "cool" :D But I think it achieved my goal.

I have calibrated, etc... I am using the Elite 74 as a pre. The fronts are large and the x-over is set to 80. Sub is set to Plus. The x-over on the sub is turned all the way up. Messed with phase, contour, all of it.
Been talking to my dealer. Looks like some room treatment is in order.

I'm buying [this friday :)] the Studio 60's fronts, 570 center, and two pairs of the SA-15R in ceiling for the surrounds in a 7.1 system. The room is pretty small at 13'x14' and was wondering if anyone else has a similar in ceiling setup? Any opinions or advice? It's either in ceiling for 7.1 or the studio 20's in the back and a center for 6.1.

The price difference between 2 pairs of SA-15R for the 7.1, and 1 pair studio-20+470 center for the 6.1 is only $220.

It's a question of 7.1 vs 6.1 and ceiling vs. satellites.
I've got almost the same set-up, except for the CC470 instead of the '570, in a 5.1 system. I had given up an older pair of Klipschs which are pretty direct and potent for surrounds as a "concession" to my wife. ;)
Anyway, I couldn't be more pleased with the SR15s. They fill my 21x15 room without any strain at all. The only concern I'd have in your case is that a 7.1 system may be a bit of overload in a room like yours. IMHO, and opinion only, you might want to go for a 6.1 system of the kind you described instead. BTW, what kind of amplification are you using? That can make all, or at least alot, of difference.

Yeah, it's true that 7.1 will probably be overkill in that size room. I have a similar "concession" with the wife. She's pushing the in ceiling for an uncluttered look, and Studio-20's + CC470 in the rear would definately clutter that sized room. So with the money I "save" on the Studio-20's and CC470, I'm throwing it into another pair of SA-15R's :D

I haven't picked out a receiver yet actually. Looking at Denon 3805, 3806, 4306, 4806, or Yamaha 5890S, 1600, 2600. Any recommendations? What seems to be the most popular mating with the Studio series?

I haven't picked out a receiver yet actually. Looking at Denon 3805, 3806, 4306, 4806, or Yamaha 5890S, 1600, 2600. Any recommendations? What seems to be the most popular mating with the Studio series?

Don't think it's the most popular (due to cost) but I have the 4806 and am very pleased with it. When funds allow I plan to add a 2 channel amp to drive the fronts.

I've got the Denon 3806 with my Paradigm set-up. It's a bit less money than the '4306 because it doesn't have video upscaling, IPod connectivity and a couple of other minor features. Audio-wise, the 4306 has an extra 10 wpc (130 wpc vs. 120), but otherwise it's the same. Anyway, I'm very, very pleased with it from a SQ standpoint. One thing I like is that in a 5.1 system, I can assign the SB channels to the fronts for bi-amplification.

Need some advice here. I am doing this set up with the 100's and am getting NO bass out of them. The listening area is about 15' away in a 20' long room (25' wide).
I have moved them all around from close to the walls to 3' out and as close the the rack as I can and nothing. If I stand at the back wall I'll get a little, but not what I think I should be getting. They sound like Mini's!
Yes, they are set to large. And yes that's a Rotel 1095 driving them. Plus I am using the Servo15v2 and anywhere along the front wall/front sides there is nothing at the listening postion. Course anywhere else in the room there is plenty.

Help!


Wow! Thats really surprising. I have a similar setup in that I'm powering my 100s with a Yamaha 4600 + Parasound Halo A51. While the Halo is a bit stronger than the Rotel 1095, there should be no reason why you aren't getting any bass out of the 100s. A couple of tips (although I don't think they are going to address the issue to your satisfaction).

1. Toe in the 100s to where they cross just behind your listening postion (this seemed to help a good bit in my setup with bass and imaging).

2. Increase the length of the feet on the speakers so that they are slightly elevated from the carpeted floor.

Have you looked at the 100s while they are playing with the grilles off? Are the bass drivers moving sufficiently. When I added my amp to the receiver, the movement actually reduced, and was more controlled.

Don't know what else to tell you other than to try another receiver/pre-pro and see if that makes a difference.

See my post.....Studio 100s + Parasound A51 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=609829) , the amplification did wonders for me.

Need some advice here. I am doing this set up with the 100's and am getting NO bass out of them. The listening area is about 15' away in a 20' long room (25' wide).
I have moved them all around from close to the walls to 3' out and as close the the rack as I can and nothing. If I stand at the back wall I'll get a little, but not what I think I should be getting. They sound like Mini's!
Yes, they are set to large. And yes that's a Rotel 1095 driving them. Plus I am using the Servo15v2 and anywhere along the front wall/front sides there is nothing at the listening postion. Course anywhere else in the room there is plenty.

Help!

Maximum7,

Are you sure the mains are wired in phase? + to + & - to - ? Try disconnecting the sub and one of the mains thereby only running one of the mains to see if the bass is present.

Robert

Hi all. I am researching on-wall speakers to go with a plasma television. I'll be buying the whole set-up sometime in the next 6 - 12 months. I just heard that Paradigm is about to come out with on-wall speakers. Does anyone here know anything about these?

I have a room that is an acoustical nightmare. It's 16 x 10 feet with speakers firing across the length of the room. I have all hardwood floors, no rugs, and 4 openings off the room. I'm looking for a speaker that has a shot at sounding good in there with both HDTV and music.

Thanks.

First, to get the introductions out of the way.
My rig:
Receiver: HK AVR 230
DVD/CD: Panasonic A110
DVD-R: Toshiba D-R4
Games: XBox
Display: Ancient HK 27" monitor
Fronts: 3se MkII from 1992 on 18" stands
Surrounds: ADP 170 v3
Sub: None. :( Taking donations. :o

Now my problem:
We recently moved and the room where the entertainment system is set up is far from home theater oriented. I have to mount the surrounds on the back wall directly above the listeners. There's lovely molding around the top of the ceiling, and a big window right under where I need/want to put one of the surrounds. Of course, there's not enough space between the window casing and the molding to fit the ADP. There's 10" of clearance and the speaker is 11" tall. :mad:

Can anyone recommend mounting brackets for the ADP-170s?

- Jasen.

Thanks guys for the suggestions. They are wired correctly. I did get my ear right next to the drivers and they are moving air. We disconnected the jumpers so we could just hear what the bottom drivers were doing and they are working.
The room has a couch in it and that's it. Nothing on the walls. I think it is just sucking up everything. Or it's just bouncing around cancelling itself. My dealer is coming over next week and we are gonna try throwing up some temp. wall treatments and see if that will help. The Rotel is no slouch and should be knocking those speakers over. I think it's the room.
Anyway, thanks again guys for the comments.

Thanks guys for the suggestions. They are wired correctly. I did get my ear right next to the drivers and they are moving air. We disconnected the jumpers so we could just hear what the bottom drivers were doing and they are working.
The room has a couch in it and that's it. Nothing on the walls. I think it is just sucking up everything. Or it's just bouncing around cancelling itself. My dealer is coming over next week and we are gonna try throwing up some temp. wall treatments and see if that will help. The Rotel is no slouch and should be knocking those speakers over. I think it's the room.
Anyway, thanks again guys for the comments.

Sorry if this is a repeat question/suggestion but is the AVR set to drive the speakers as 'large' (i.e., all bass goes to mains)? and are any EQ controls set correctly?

First, to get the introductions out of the way.
<snip>
Can anyone recommend mounting brackets for the ADP-170s?

- Jasen.

I have my 170's ceiling mounted with some very heavy angle brackets (not made for speakers but rather from Home Depot; they're used for fence/gate construction). They look fine, provide a more solid mount than speaker brackets, hold the speakers close to the ceiling, and the $ factor was very low compared to speaker brackets.

The brackets actually support a piece of MDF cut to the size of the back of the 170's, onto which the speakers are mounted.

Thanks for the response. Interesting. I had thought of cutting a couple of 2x8s or 2x6s to 8" long, screwing them to the wall, and mounting the speakers to those. Brackets and MDF might let me put holes in the ceiling rather than the wall, though. Hmmmm...

- Jasen.

FWIW

Signature S4s in Cherry have started shipping again after 12 weeks of no production. Reportedly a supply issue that has now been remedied.

I am considering a set-up for a new house, with a Denon 3806 receiver (has 120WPC) foe either the Paradigm Studio 60 or Studio 100. The configuration really only allows for 5.1 which is fine by me. Will an honest 120 WPC (and I think Denon will give at least as much as stated) be adequate for either of those series of speakers? I'm thinking Seismic 12 in there, with either the CC470 or CC570. The room will be about 14x22...moderate furnishing. ;)

Thanks for advice.

I am considering a set-up for a new house, with a Denon 3806 receiver (has 120WPC) foe either the Paradigm Studio 60 or Studio 100. The configuration really only allows for 5.1 which is fine by me. Will an honest 120 WPC (and I think Denon will give at least as much as stated) be adequate for either of those series of speakers? I'm thinking Seismic 12 in there, with either the CC470 or CC570. The room will be about 14x22...moderate furnishing. ;)

Thanks for advice.

Go with the 60's, the 100s like power. The 100s will sound ok with 120 but really open up at 200+.

My room is just about the same size and I've got the Studio 60s and CC470 running off the Denon AVR 3806. There's power to spare; at even -25 db on the 3806 volume, you'll have a quite robust sound stage. You don't have to worry about your subwoofer, be it the Seismic 12 or anything else, since it provides its own power.

John ans S2-
Thanks for the advice ! John, I see in your profile that you have some Studio 20's. I think I would prefer to use two Studio 20's as surrounds instead of those really expensive dipoles ( ADP's)...a couple hundred $$ more than the Studio 20's) Are you currently using the Studio 20's as surrounds by choice, over the ADP's ?

I'm thinking that Studio 60's in combo with that Seismic 12 w/ crossover at about 60 Hz would be a good starting point.

I really appreciate you folks that have already been there with this stuff. Any more advice is appreciated. ;)

My setup is Paradigm Reference Studio 40s for the fronts and rears.
Paradigm CC for the center
Servoe 15 for the sub.
I am powering them with a Denon 3801 and using the Xbox 360 for most of my content (DVD, CD, etc)

Here's an image of my setup:

http://reaper.us/assets/images/db_images/db_Theater_0071.jpg

And another?

http://reaper.us/assets/images/db_images/db_Theater_0081.jpg

Others can be found here:

http://reaper.us/html/finished.html

I am considering a set-up for a new house, with a Denon 3806 receiver (has 120WPC) foe either the Paradigm Studio 60 or Studio 100. The configuration really only allows for 5.1 which is fine by me. Will an honest 120 WPC (and I think Denon will give at least as much as stated) be adequate for either of those series of speakers? I'm thinking Seismic 12 in there, with either the CC470 or CC570. The room will be about 14x22...moderate furnishing. ;)

Thanks for advice.

I'll say this....and I'm going to be blunt....if you are going to run the 100s with a receiver thats anything less than a flagship (talking Denon 5805 or Yammy Z9 or the like here) you're wasting your money......period. If the plan is to upgrade the equipment over time, to include external amplification, then that might be a different story.

Folks here can challenge this statement if they'd like to, but I'm speaking from my own personal experience and not heresay.

By the way (and I don't mean to rain on your parade) the 3806 is not going to put out 120wpc in a 5.1 setup, despite what the ratings say.

You clearly are looking at some nice speakers.....don't do them the injustice of insufficient power. I would lose the Seismic sub for maybe Paradigm's PW series or an SVS piece and use the dollars you save for a nice external amp (200wpc or above).

Good luck....and ask away if you have more questions.

Thanks DLPKID and others-

OK, how 'bout I drop down to the Studio 60's (instead of Studio 100's) in a 5.1 configuration that I previously described. Would you see the Denon 3806 doing justice to the Studio 60's ?

That's what I'm running and it more than does it justice.

Excellent S2-

Now, I see you are using the CC470. I wonder if that CC570 would make much difference. With that, I might consider having it set on "full." It looks very capable.

John ans S2-
Thanks for the advice ! John, I see in your profile that you have some Studio 20's. I think I would prefer to use two Studio 20's as surrounds instead of those really expensive dipoles ( ADP's)...a couple hundred $$ more than the Studio 20's) Are you currently using the Studio 20's as surrounds by choice, over the ADP's ?


I'm using the 20s as surrounds in a 5.1 system. It came down to personal preference. I liked the sound of the 20s better than the ADPs.

Thanks DLPKID and others-

OK, how 'bout I drop down to the Studio 60's (instead of Studio 100's) in a 5.1 configuration that I previously described. Would you see the Denon 3806 doing justice to the Studio 60's ?

I think the 3806 would do the 60s a lot more justice than the 100s, however, I still think what I said for the 100s would apply to the 60s as well......they will sound much better with stronger amplification than what the Denon can provide. It just makes the dollars you spend on the speakers that much more worth it. As I said before, I'd ditch the Seismic 12 and use the money you save for an external amp. I have the PW2100 sub (which only has a 10" driver) and it absolutely rocks my room.....its also $1,000 less than the Seismic 12. I've read of folks here that have mated an outlaw amp to a Paradigm Studio setup and have had nothing but good things to say about it.....this is where I'd put my extra $1K.

That's what I'm running and it more than does it justice.

With all due respect, I had similar thoughts when driving my 100s with a Yamaha RXV-4600 receiver (rated 130wpc).....until I augmented it with an external amp. While your setup may sound good with the 3806 standalone, it likely still isn't anywhere near what the 60s can be capable of.

With all due respect, I had similar thoughts when driving my 100s with a Yamaha RXV-4600 receiver (rated 130wpc).....until I augmented it with an external amp. While your setup may sound good with the 3806 standalone, it likely still isn't anywhere near what the 60s can be capable of.

With all due respect, you do not know what a Denon 3806 and a pair of Studio 60's would sound like in his room.
I had my old 60's driven by a Marantz SR8200 and after trying 3 external amplifiers (Anthem, Parasound and a Marantz) I did not notice any real difference until the volume was raised to a point where my ears started to bleed.
With a good receiver and proper room treatment/placement, $$$ could be better spent elsewhere IMO.

Studio 100's OTOH, can substantially benefit from the extra power a good amplifier can provide. That information is almost common knowledge to Paradigm followers such as myself and others on this forum.

My setup is Paradigm Reference Studio 40s for the fronts and rears.
Paradigm CC for the center
Servo 15 for the sub.

Very nice setup. Front projection makes me a little green with envy.

I just have to add tho.....IMO, that CC is a little too low, it should be raised to at least the bottom of the screen. That way it'll be more aligned with your 40's.
Get a laundry basket, box, etc. and try it that way, recalibrate if necessary and listen to a couple of movies. Pans across the front 3 should be more seamless and dialog should be more inline with the screen as it should be.

anyone here tried using the studio 20s as center speaker & the Studio 60s as front left and right ? any good ?

I do own the Paradigm Studio 60's and plan on buying a secondhand Krell KAV-300i amplifier. Does anyone know whether this will be a good match or not?

I am running 40's V.3 with a Denon 3805 and feel I need more power for 2 CH, HT seams ok
I ran out of space so I am waitingon the new Sunfire Flat 8 amp to give that a try its only 1" tall.
The rest of my set up for HT is a CC-450 and Cenimas in the rear with a PDR8
I think an amp will help the 40's for music.

Question about any Paradigm Studio model speaker-binding posts... Is there any spade type connector that anyone found that will / won't work on these?

Tried the Radio Shack crimp style # 278-311, seems like it is too small, without major "plier modifications".

Anything out there that will work better? Not talking sonics here, just the physical fit, since the binding post has a larger diameter than some other post.

Question about any Paradigm Studio model speaker-binding posts... Is there any spade type connector that anyone found that will / won't work on these?

Tried the Radio Shack crimp style # 278-311, seems like it is too small, without major "plier modifications".

Anything out there that will work better? Not talking sonics here, just the physical fit, since the binding post has a larger diameter than some other post.

Never mind...found out Paradigms use a 5/16" post diameter. Ordered some Audioquest spades from Music Direct.

I'm amazed though that both of the two Paradigm dealers in my area had no clue as to this fact.

Has anyone HONSTLY herd any inprovments fro upgrading speaker wire with there paradigms ?
I am now using SJ power cord for speaker wire

With all due respect, you do not know what a Denon 3806 and a pair of Studio 60's would sound like in his room.
I had my old 60's driven by a Marantz SR8200 and after trying 3 external amplifiers (Anthem, Parasound and a Marantz) I did not notice any real difference until the volume was raised to a point where my ears started to bleed.
With a good receiver and proper room treatment/placement, $$$ could be better spent elsewhere IMO.

Studio 100's OTOH, can substantially benefit from the extra power a good amplifier can provide. That information is almost common knowledge to Paradigm followers such as myself and others on this forum.

Have you tried the 60 v3's?...... I have. I took a demo pair home for a week and had them in the exact same environment as I do my 100s. I also happened to drive them with the same exact 4600 receiver. The reason I stepped up to the 100s was because I felt that the 60s did not have enough low end extension for my tastes. In hindsight, its clear to me that they would have been capable of more if I had driven them with sufficient power.

The 60s have a recommended Amplifier power range of 15 - 200 watts. The 3806 would be lucky to put out its 120 watt power rating spec in 2 channel mode, let alone in a 5.1 setup.

Look....my only point is that while the 60s may sound good with a receiver, they can sound better with stronger amplification.

Oh and btw, my lead in to S2's post was genuine......yours on the other hand, appears condescending. If you've got an axe to grind, do it elsewhere. I'm only trying to help folks here based on my experience. When I was looking for my Paradigm setup, there was no owner thread. I could have really benefited from feedback from others.

Antman, the dimensions of the CC-450 with grill are: 8" High x 20 7/8" Wide x 11 1/8" Deep.

Hope that helps..

Thanks ~ doug zdanivsky I installed one this weekend -sounds much better than my CC350
I realy wanted the CC v.2 (althow I should get a CC-470 to match my 40's V.3 But the [rice was right )

You can call me Doug.. :)

These v.2, v.3 monikers are a bit confusing..

The v.2 is the CC-470, or is that the v.3's?

The V.1 was the CC-450 the V.2 was called Just the studio CC the new v.3 is the CC470

Ahhhhhh..

Gotcha..

I'm going to try both varients for the rears.. Studio 20's, and ADP-470's..

Just to see which sounds the best..

I'll probably go with Studio 60's for the fronts, or could I get away with Studio 40's?

Have you tried the 60 v3's?...... I have. I took a demo pair home for a week and had them in the exact same environment as I do my 100s. I also happened to drive them with the same exact 4600 receiver. The reason I stepped up to the 100s was because I felt that the 60s did not have enough low end extension for my tastes. In hindsight, its clear to me that they would have been capable of more if I had driven them with sufficient power.
.


DLPkid-- great! do you feel that the 100s are better than the 60's ? in what way do you feel better if indeed they are better ?

Thanks.

DLPkid-- great! do you feel that the 100s are better than the 60's ? in what way do you feel better if indeed they are better ?

Thanks.

That would depend on your definition of "better". IMO the 100s have a much "better" bass responce than the 60s. But if you have a sub and listen to 5 .1 more than 2 channel you don't "need" better bass.

jkhome, Ultralink makes a nice spade that fits the Paradigm binding posts.

That would depend on your definition of "better". IMO the 100s have a much "better" bass responce than the 60s. But if you have a sub and listen to 5 .1 more than 2 channel you don't "need" better bass.


I will be using mine more for home theater set-up rather than 2 channel stereo setup.

Thanks

Have you tried the 60 v3's?...... I have. I took a demo pair home for a week and had them in the exact same environment as I do my 100s. I also happened to drive them with the same exact 4600 receiver. The reason I stepped up to the 100s was because I felt that the 60s did not have enough low end extension for my tastes. In hindsight, its clear to me that they would have been capable of more if I had driven them with sufficient power.

The 60s have a recommended Amplifier power range of 15 - 200 watts. The 3806 would be lucky to put out its 120 watt power rating spec in 2 channel mode, let alone in a 5.1 setup.

Look....my only point is that while the 60s may sound good with a receiver, they can sound better with stronger amplification.
Having fueled this debate over the relative advantages of the Denon AVR 3806 vs. a separate amp, I should mention that I'm using the unused Surround Back channels of the 3806 to bi-amp the front l-r Studio 60 V.3s. That may not be quite the same as using a high-end, separate amp, and I may not be getting "true" power of 240 wpc, but it has made a nice difference.

Have you tried the 60 v3's?...... I have. I took a demo pair home for a week and had them in the exact same environment as I do my 100s. I also happened to drive them with the same exact 4600 receiver. The reason I stepped up to the 100s was because I felt that the 60s did not have enough low end extension for my tastes. In hindsight, its clear to me that they would have been capable of more if I had driven them with sufficient power.

The 60s have a recommended Amplifier power range of 15 - 200 watts. The 3806 would be lucky to put out its 120 watt power rating spec in 2 channel mode, let alone in a 5.1 setup.

Look....my only point is that while the 60s may sound good with a receiver, they can sound better with stronger amplification.

Oh and btw, my lead in to S2's post was genuine......yours on the other hand, appears condescending. If you've got an axe to grind, do it elsewhere. I'm only trying to help folks here based on my experience. When I was looking for my Paradigm setup, there was no owner thread. I could have really benefited from feedback from others.

I'm sorry my post appears to be condescending to you, I'm just speaking from experience. I have had Paradigms since 1994 and have even sold them at a local A/V store here in the city. Your post may have been genuine to you, but I dont see where you have tried external amplification on a pair of Studio 60's. Are you just assuming that the benefit the 100's receive would be the same? If you are trying to help based upon your experience, then do so and so will I.

Low end extension from a pair of mains is usually sought after from 2 channel purists since a subwoofer is not in the picture....is this what your setup is? I'm asking this as you mentioned that the 60's did not go low enough for you but the 100's seemed to suit your taste moreso. Do you have a center channel?

And as far as an axe to grind, no I dont. But if my post gets your feathers ruffled, then obviously you dont post on forums much.

DLPkid-- great! do you feel that the 100s are better than the 60's ? in what way do you feel better if indeed they are better ?

Thanks.

Yes, I do think the 100s are better than the 60s......for what I was looking for with my mains, that is.

The major differences.

1. As JohnG pointed out....significantly better bass response.

2. The 100s are dedicated 5 driver true 3-way design, while the 60s are a 3 driver 2 1/2 way design.....i.e. the 100s have a more advanced internal crossover network.

3. The 100s can play louder than the 60s.

4. The 100s need more power to extract their maximum potential.

5. The 60s are ported in the front and rear, while the 100s are front-ported only (more of a design observation).

6. The 100s are about 4 inches taller and do have the propensity to overwhelm a smaller space such as a family room.

Not to downplay the 60s by any means (I do think they are superb towers, especially considering that they are ~45% cheaper than the 100s), but the 60s are essentially 40s in a larger cabinet. The cabinet does, however, make a significant difference in bass response. Based on my listening, the 60s did have the bass response of towers, while the 40s sounded like what they were.....very good bookshelfs.

I struggled a lot with my final decision, given that the 100s are a good deal more expensive. I was also more focused on music than HT and 2-channel listening was certainly high on the priority list. The 60s mated to the Yammy 4600 weren't doing it for me in terms of low-end extension. As I said in my previous post, I do honestly believe than an external amp would have improved the low-end of the 60s a good bit. I found the 60s getting harsh when cranking up the dial (what I now believe was a by product of the low-end not being able to keep up with the mids and highs due to insufficient amplification power, resulting in a tonal imbalance as the output increased).

I often listen to the 100s without any bass management or sub filler.....and I absolutely love them.

I posted a lot of when I was making my decision and one of the folks on the forum made a simple statement that pushed me over the edge. He simply said "Go for the 100s or you'll always wonder what if...". I'll also add that I absolutely blew my budget as my original intent was for a pairs of 40s powered by a receiver. I spent about 10 hours in total at my local store listening to the entire Studio lineup, using my CDs and a very wide variety of listening material. The Studios just had the type of sound I was looking for and hence, I didn't stray very far from them. The interesting part is that I ultimately went for the 100s even though I demo'ed them with only a Yamaha receiver. Little did I know their full potential until I drove them with more power.

By the way, not to create any more controversy, but IMHO I don't believe a bookshelf speaker + subwoofer is a substitute for a full range tower. Again, not just mouthing off, but speaking based on my audition of the Studio line with a PW2200 sub (and a good deal of tweaking while listening as well).

I'm sorry my post appears to be condescending to you, I'm just speaking from experience. I have had Paradigms since 1994 and have even sold them at a local A/V store here in the city. Your post may have been genuine to you, but I dont see where you have tried external amplification on a pair of Studio 60's. Are you just assuming that the benefit the 100's receive would be the same? If you are trying to help based upon your experience, then do so and so will I.

Low end extension from a pair of mains is usually sought after from 2 channel purists since a subwoofer is not in the picture....is this what your setup is? I'm asking this as you mentioned that the 60's did not go low enough for you but the 100's seemed to suit your taste moreso. Do you have a center channel?

And as far as an axe to grind, no I dont. But if my post gets your feathers ruffled, then obviously you dont post on forums much.


Fair enough. Your point it taken.

So....I'll ask you this - are all the folks here that are powering anything in the Studio lineup (besides the 100s) with anything more than a receiver wasting their money??? Maybe I should ask the poster with the 40s that made a comment a few posts earlier that his 40s benefited a good deal from an external amp.

jkhome, Ultralink makes a nice spade that fits the Paradigm binding posts.

Thanks, efloen. I was considering getting the reusable Ultralink pro spade, looked very nice. Found a local "dealer" from their web site.

But the number I called was some guy who just installs A/V systems, probably out of his house, didn't carry them and didn't do retail. I knew I was in trouble when he answered the phone with a simple "Hello"?....

At a buck each, the Audioquest spade should work just fine on my $1 a foot CL-3 cable.

I do however need some Ultralink bananas to fit the Edison Price posts I have on my modified Magnepan MMGs and Aragon amp. Do you know of a decent on-line distributor?

In the next few weeks I will be ordering a new center to go with my Studio 20v3s. Then the plan is to get the matching surrounds in the late spring.

So is it safe to assume that the version #3 line of the Studio series will be with us through 2006? I looked at some web material about Cedia 2005, couldn't find any reference to a version #4. Is there another upcoming show that I should tune in to?

Reason I ask is my dealer offers a one year trade up policy, so this spring I could trade up the 20s to another different version, but if that's the case I would hold off on the center.

Do you foks think if I add an amp to my 40's & using my denon 3805 as a preamp I would notice a major diffrence ?
Alos has anyone honstly noticed inprovement from speaker cables /I now use SJ power cord!

No, antman, I don't think there'd be any difference between the speaker wire and power cord of the same gauge. But there are plenty of heated comments from both sides in other threads that I suggest you look at. Especially regarding Monster being overpriced, etc. Since I'm sure nobody wants to turn this thread into a cable comparison, that's why I mention the other existing threads.

I personally don't think adding an external amp to the 40s instead of the 3805 would be a good price/performance gain. Sure, it would sound a bit better, but probably not for the cost of the amp. You could probably spend the same amount or less on different equipment/room treatments/etc.

The 60s have a recommended Amplifier power range of 15 - 200 watts. The 3806 would be lucky to put out its 120 watt power rating spec in 2 channel mode, let alone in a 5.1 setup.
The 15-200W listed for the speakers (and this goes for all of Paradigm's listings in this column) is not a recommended amplifier power range. It is the input range that the speakers can handle without damaging them.

Paradigm actually recommends (in an ideal world) running an amplifier with plenty more power than the maximum range of the speaker, to allow for headroom. From their manual... (see last paragraph for the quote I'm referencing.. I'm just putting it all here for everyone's reference)


From the Paradigm Reference Owners Manual ("Preventing Speaker Damage"):

Paradigm Reference speakers are efficient and can be driven to loud listening levels with moderate amplifier power. They are also able to handle the output of very powerful amplifiers. To prevent damage to your speakers, please read the following guidelines before hooking them up.

Amplifier Distortion - The #1 Culprit!
Amplifier distortion is the principal cause of speaker damage. When listening at loud levels your amplifier may run out of clean power. It will then begin to produce distorted power several times greater than its rated output power. This will damage any brand of speaker very quickly!

More Powerful Amplifiers are Safer
A 40 watt/channel amplifier will have substantial distortion above 40 watts. If driven to 50 watts, this amplifier will deliver distorted power - which will damage the speaker! A 100 watt/channel amplifier will have substantial distortion above 100 watts, but very low distortion below 100 watts. Therefore, when the speaker requires 50 watts, this more powerful amplifier will deliver clean power and speaker damage is less likely to occur.

Volume Control
Do not be fooled by the Volume Control of your receiver/preamplifier. It only adjusts listening level - it is not a "power-output" dial. The amount of amplifier power actually used at a given Volume Control setting depends solely on the nature of the music you are listening to. At a given Volume Control setting a quiet section of music will use less amplifier power than a loud section. With typical pop-rock, jazz or large scale classic music, the rated output power of many receivers/amplifiers is often reached when the Volume Control is between the "11 and 1 o'clock" settings (with bass/treble and loudness controls not used - otherwise rated power may be reached at even lower Volume Control settings).

Remember, all amplifiers produce distortion when operated beyond their rated output power. The resulting distortion will damage all speakers! Exercise caution! If you listen at loud levels, be careful to listen for the point of audible distortion - if the speakers begin to sound distressed turn the Volume Control down or your speakers and/or amplifier(s) will be damaged! This type of damage constitutes abuse and is not covered by the warranty. If louder volumes are desired obtain a more powerful amplifier.

There is a limit!
Although more powerful amplifiers are safer, there is a point at which you could have more power than the speaker can handle. At that point you will overpower the speaker and damage it. Exercise caution! At loud levels do not increase bass/treble controls from zero and ensure that loudness/contour/bass EQ buttons are off (otherwise rated output power will be reached at lower volume control settings). If you listen at loud levels, watch for excessive visible cone excursion (grille movement) from the woofer - then turn the Volume Control down.

The Right Amount of Power
A power-range rating is given as a guide to indicate the approximate minimum and maximum power input of your Paradigm Reference speakers. Amplifiers that exceed your speaker's power-range rating are recommended. Their greater power reserves provide better sound. However, exercise caution! Use the speakers within their power-range rating to prevent damage (keep listening levels below the point of excessive woofer cone excursion).
(Emphasis in last paragraph is mine).

By the way, DLPKid, which amplifier do you have (couldn't find your mention of it)? I'm thinking about getting a pro amp with something like 400W/channel for my 100s (that I just upgraded to).

The 15-200W listed for the speakers (and this goes for all of Paradigm's listings in this column) is not a recommended amplifier power range. It is the input range that the speakers can handle without damaging them.

Paradigm actually recommends (in an ideal world) running an amplifier with plenty more power than the maximum range of the speaker, to allow for headroom. From their manual... (see last paragraph for the quote I'm referencing.. I'm just putting it all here for everyone's reference)


(Emphasis in last paragraph is mine).

By the way, DLPKid, which amplifier do you have (couldn't find your mention of it)? I'm thinking about getting a pro amp with something like 400W/channel for my 100s (that I just upgraded to).

I'm driving my 100s, CC570 and ADPs with a 5-channel Parasound Halo A51 on its own dedicated 20 amp circuit.

I'm driving my 100s, CC570 and ADPs with a 5-channel Parasound Halo A51 on its own dedicated 20 amp circuit.


That should really sound good!! 250w x 5

Do you foks think if I add an amp to my 40's & using my denon 3805 as a preamp I would notice a major diffrence ?
Alos has anyone honstly noticed inprovement from speaker cables /I now use SJ power cord!


I think there is more of a difference between using short and long lengths, of the same cable. If you can get that separate amp closer to your 40s, instead of using a long length of speaker wire from the Denon, you should have better control of the bass.

Fair enough. Your point it taken.

So....I'll ask you this - are all the folks here that are powering anything in the Studio lineup (besides the 100s) with anything more than a receiver wasting their money??? Maybe I should ask the poster with the 40s that made a comment a few posts earlier that his 40s benefited a good deal from an external amp.

I acknowledge that I do not have first hand knowledge about how the 60s respond to external amplification (I do the 100s), but here's a comment made by Miltimj, who does, on another thread.

"I have Studio 60s as well and love them. Note that they sound significantly better with a separate amplifier (apparently moreso than similar speakers), and since you're planning that into the system, they make a very good fit."

OK, I have heard from several of you that the AV receiver Denon 3806 (w/ 120 wpc/RMS) will not "do justice" especially to the Studio 100's, and maybe even not do justice to the Studio 60's. OK, so now I may go down a new road (for me) of a separate amplifier that was noted. I am pretty doggone good on VIDEO sources and products, but audio, not so much and separates are really a NEW world for me. Will a few of you please recommend something in a separate amplification, really decent but not outlandishly expensive for a 5.1 system of Studio 100 (L/R) w/ cc470 (cc 570 may not fit), + (two) Studio 20's as rears (do not have room shape configuration for 7.1). Again, the room is rectangle of about 14X22, w/ standard 8' ceiling and average furniture + carpeting.

Thanks again for all the great advice. ;)

What about a separate stereo/2-channel amp' for the front speakers while using the Denon for the rest of the surround system? Has anyone tried that? What are the advantages/disadvantages?

What about a separate stereo/2-channel amp' for the front speakers while using the Denon for the rest of the surround system? Has anyone tried that? What are the advantages/disadvantages?

I think this would be a great starting point. Having a nice 2 channel amp handle your mains will free up your Receiver to more easily handle the Center and Surrounds. The additional reserves should help with dialogue from your CC as well.

You will have to recalibrate your system to reference levels again to take into account the amplifier driving the mains. You'd basically use the FL & FR pre-outs on your receiver to your external amp and then have your mains hooked to the amp.

I do think you should bring an amp home from your dealer, mate it to your system and THEN make your final decision. The last thing you want to do is drop a decent chunk of change, come home and then find that the amp isn't doing what you expected it to do. I added a pretty robust amp to a hungry set of speakers, and I feel my setup benefited greatly from it. That being said, I cannot in good conscience tell someone to go run out and buy an amp and then expect the same benefit that I received....its just not possible for me to make such blanket statement as there simple are too many variables (speaker type, amp type, amp power, line voltage etc. etc). I do honestly think that the 60s can benefit from amplification (based on my receiver only audition of them), but you need to make that final decision yourself.

Will a few of you please recommend something in a separate amplification, really decent but not outlandishly expensive for a 5.1 system of Studio 100 (L/R) w/ cc470 (cc 570 may not fit), + (two) Studio 20's as rears (do not have room shape configuration for 7.1).

Gosh....thats a tough one. There is just simply so much out there and a lot that will be driven by your budget.

I bought my amp (Parasound Halo A51) off of Audiogon for about 25% of retail. Its being driven by my Yammy 4600, acting as a pre-pro. The risk of buying it "lightly used" as opposed to new is that I have no warranty. So far its been great, but use caution when buying such expensive gear without a safety net (warranty).

I also looked at the Anthem MCA series, which I could have purchased new (with warranty) for the same money as the Halo used. In the end, I was happy with my decision to go with the Halo (although I do think Anthem's MCA series amps are really nice).

I've seen threads from folks that have had great things to say about their Outlaw gear, which coincidently is about 50% of the cost of the Halo gear.

All I can say is find a dealer that will let you take stuff home and listen to it in your own environment. Had my dealer not let me take the Studios home, I probably would not have purchased them.

PS: Parasound's New Classic amps (5250 & 2250, THX Ultra2) are superb pieces for the money. The new classic 7100 pre-pro is also supposed to be really good value for $. Bryston also receives rave reviews on most forums....but you have to pay to play. For me, the Halo was the next best thing to a Bryston or Anthem Statement in my budget range.

What about a separate stereo/2-channel amp' for the front speakers while using the Denon for the rest of the surround system? Has anyone tried that? What are the advantages/disadvantages?

DLPKID has great info in his two posts. In home demo's are key to making the right choice.

Check out Anthem, Rotel, Parasound, and Bryston. Let your ears and budget be your guide. I'm sure there are other good ones out there but these are the ones I've listened to and liked.

BTW, I just noted that this Paradigm topic seems to lead the Speakers section of Audio by a HUGE margin. Thank you all for your advice on the Studio 60/100 and its support by different amplification. A lot to think about and research. This response just proves how great AVS Forum and its "family" is for "tech-support." Thanks again. ;)

I believe the question of external amplification benefiting any sound system let alone Studio 40/60/100's is dependent on room configuration, the quality and power of your existing receiver and of course, how much of a fanatic you are. :D

My room is not perfect but fairly well laid out and I think that because I had a receiver that had fairly robust amplifiers and had enough headroom, my demos with amps did not give me cause to break out the wallet. Of course that has all changed now and yes, I would like to jump on the bandwagon and will be purchasing a seperate amplifier for my new system somewhere in the near future. More than likely an MCA30 for the front 3.

Hey all, I started a new post yesterday but got no responses so I thought this might be a more appropriate place to try. I am thinking about getting a very basic surround setup ideally using paradigms. I am leaning toward a pair of titans in the front, a pair of atoms flr surrounds and the matching center (CC-170 or something like that). I know the titans won't be the best for fronts but I was wondering if this will let me get by for a little bit until I can upgrade my fronts and move the titans to the surrounds and atoms to the rears? Also, I probably only have enough for either a center or a sub--but not both since I will probably go with 4 stands for the bookshelves. Which one is better to start with until I can get the other in about a month or so. I will be driving this with an older HK AVR100--basic but should get the job done. Does this sound feasible? Basically, I am trying to go with a good brand but will be forced to go entrylevel within that brand. Or, I could go with a lesser known brand/lesser quality one but go middle road on their lines. My father has had paradigms for years and I absolutely love them so it would be nice to be able to stick with them. I am going to a paradigm dealer today (in a few hours) so any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
JUC

Hello all,My40's are on a solid wood pice of funiture that is 67 " long and 20" high .The speakers now sit right on the wood shelf with a 50" TV in the middle of them.
Will speaker spikes help inprove my speakers if I get them up off the wood shelf OR should I look to put rubber adsorbor feet under the speakers ?
I do not want to raise them much more than one inch or the tweeters will be to high than ,will spikes destroy the funiture that they are on now.
Can anyone point me in the right direction.
WILL RAISING THEM OF OF THE FUNITURE INPROVE OVERALL SOUND ?
Thanks ~

Hello all,My40's are on a solid wood pice of funiture that is 67 " long and 20" high .The speakers now sit right on the wood shelf with a 50" TV in the middle of them.
Will speaker spikes help inprove my speakers if I get them up off the wood shelf OR should I look to put rubber adsorbor feet under the speakers ?
I do not want to raise them much more than one inch or the tweeters will be to high than ,will spikes destroy the funiture that they are on now.
Can anyone point me in the right direction.
WILL RAISING THEM OF OF THE FUNITURE INPROVE OVERALL SOUND ?
Thanks ~

If you can feel the furniture vibrating when the 40s are playing then raising them may help the sound. You'll have to decide if spikes or pads sound better. Yes the spikes can damage the furniture is you move the speakers around a lot.

Hello all,My40's are on a solid wood pice of funiture that is 67 " long and 20" high .The speakers now sit right on the wood shelf with a 50" TV in the middle of them.
Will speaker spikes help inprove my speakers if I get them up off the wood shelf OR should I look to put rubber adsorbor feet under the speakers ?
I do not want to raise them much more than one inch or the tweeters will be to high than ,will spikes destroy the funiture that they are on now.
Can anyone point me in the right direction.
WILL RAISING THEM OF OF THE FUNITURE INPROVE OVERALL SOUND ?
Thanks ~

Spikes will "couple" your speaker cabinets to the furniture, rubber will "isolate' them from the furniture. What is best is what sounds the best to you.

I "couple" my Studio 20s to their stands by bolting into the threaded inserts of the Paradigm cabinet. But "decouple" or isolate the stands from my carpet covered concrete floor, by using "unhappy balls", placed in garden hose brass caps, with are attached to the threaded inserts on the bottom of my DIY stands. (Originally had Parts Express "cone" spikes there.

The unhappy balls are amazing; they feel like regular rubber balls. But if you drop them to any solid floor surface, from a decent height, they will just flop on the floor with little or no bounce!

Google “happy/unhappy balls”, check out Arbor Scientific’s site. They will sell you the unhappy ones seperately.


http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/1402/img04748kl.jpg

I have to admit that I have not read *all* of the post in this amazing thread, so my apologizes if this has been covered.

Yesterday I went to my local western MI dealer and demoed the studio 60s and studio 20s. I had the salesman cross them both over at 80 Hz and compared the two without a subwoofer (or at least that was my request, I have no way of verifying that this took place, had to take his word for it).

I was hoping that the two speakers would sound nearly identical as I was under the impression that the major difference between the speakers in this line is the bass extension of each.

Unfortunately this was not the case. To my non-audiophile ears the 60s sounded more "rich". That is, I felt I could hear the bass (or is it midbass?) missing from the 20s as I switched between the two.

Originally my plan was to get the 20s up front and ADP-470s as rears to match with the SVS PB12-Plus subwoofer I already owned (currently setup with the Pio 1014 and Logitech 5.1 speakers). I thought buying the 60s for up front and crossing them over at 80 Hz would be wasting speaker, now I am not so sure.

My listening preferences will most likely be 80/20 movies/music(192 kbps mp3s).

Any one else have a similar experience? Comments? Suggestions?

Money is an object, so if I can get away with the 20s up front instead of the 60s, I will, but don't want to be left wondering if the 60s would sound significantly better in my setup (and don't believe I have the option of an in home demo. even if I did, the room where they will eventually end up has only had the drywall hung recently.)

Thanks!

Unfortunately this was not the case. To my non-audiophile ears the 60s sounded more "rich". That is, I felt I could hear the bass (or is it midbass?) missing from the 20s as I switched between the two.

Originally my plan was to get the 20s up front and ADP-470s as rears to match with the SVS PB12-Plus subwoofer I already owned (currently setup with the Pio 1014 and Logitech 5.1 speakers). I thought buying the 60s for up front and crossing them over at 80 Hz would be wasting speaker, now I am not so sure.



Thanks!


Hi Spartan

Have you tried the Studio 40s ? maybe that would be a good compromise.

I too had the same notion and assumptions as you did that when two identical speakers are crossed @ certain frequency and dedicating the bass to the sub that the speakers would sound similar. I guess it doesnt.

Thanks for the info as well,

Have you tried the Studio 40s ? maybe that would be a good compromise.




I considered this, but (1) The dealer I went to only had Signature S4s to demo and (2) for the price of the 40s with stands, I think I would prefer the 60s for not that much more money.

Ideally I am looking to buy as many high quality speakers as I can in order to get me closer to 7.1 surround sound with $2300 left to spend this year, 2006 (and only the .1 purchased). My options:

1 pair 60s & ADP-470s = [4.1 surround sound]
2 pair 20s & ADP-470s = [6.1 surround sound]

Room will be dedicated dlp front projector theater ~13'x~25' with seating distance about 12' away. With this setup I believe I can get away with a phantom center with the 60s or go with 3 Studio 20s across the front with option #2 above.

I considered this, but (1) The dealer I went to only had Signature S4s to demo and (2) for the price of the 40s with stands, I think I would prefer the 60s for not that much more money.

Ideally I am looking to buy as many high quality speakers as I can in order to get me closer to 7.1 surround sound with $2300 left to spend this year, 2006 (and only the .1 purchased). My options:

1 pair 60s & ADP-470s = [4.1 surround sound]
2 pair 20s & ADP-470s = [6.1 surround sound]

Room will be dedicated dlp front projector theater ~13'x~25' with seating distance about 12' away. With this setup I believe I can get away with a phantom center with the 60s or go with 3 Studio 20s across the front with option #2 above.

Those are good choices but a mix of compromise and budget will always be a factor. Also consider that the Studio series is always better when driven by separate amplifiers compared to the built in amps of receivers unless its the higher models.

In a few weeks time i will also have to decide between a Studio 100 and studio 60s. Centers are for sure the CC570, rears are either the Studio 20s or ADP470.

Aint this hobby fun!

Ideally I am looking to buy as many high quality speakers as I can in order to get me closer to 7.1 surround sound with $2300 left to spend this year, 2006 (and only the .1 purchased). My options:

1 pair 60s & ADP-470s = [4.1 surround sound]
2 pair 20s & ADP-470s = [6.1 surround sound]

If you want High Quality, I'd save a little more money and do 3 60's as LCR or 2 60's and a 570. Or, if you have room 2 100's and a 570 with 470's for surrounds. I wouldn't do the phantom center thing. I'd power every thing with separates from Rotel. You, do any of the same 3 speakers as LCR and your sound stage will be awesome, you'll never look back.

Why a SVS and not a Servo 15?

Redhouse

I'd save a little more money and do 3 60's as LCR or 2 60's and a 570. Or, 2 100's and a 570 with 470's for surrounds.

LOL! Ah, the perpetual always something better to upgrade to. To be honest a pair of 60s with 470's for surrounds is a little outside my budget to begin with. If I have to keep "saving a little more money", I won't be able to buy any speakers until 2007. :D Additionally, I have many other hobbies that require my wallet's attention.

I'd power every thing with separates from Rotel.

Eventually I plan on adding a pro-amp to the mix to compliment my Pioneer 1014 as my equipment is housed behind the front wall of the projector's screen, so fan noise will not be an issue. This will not take place for a very long time however (and possibly never if I decide to go with Studio 20's all around).


I wouldn't do the phantom center thing. You, do any of the same 3 speakers as LCR and your sound stage will be awesome, you'll never look back.

I don't think a phantom center will be a problem. The room is relatively narrow (13') and the main speakers with be equally spaced apart on either side of the screen.

Why a SVS and not a Servo 15?

No particular reason. Based on favorable reviews of SVS here I decided to give it a try and like the results. Just the other day, a friend's 2 year old started to cry when the windows starting shaking and the floor was rumbling under his feet during the opening of Ice Age. :) Never knew what "tight bass" meant until I fired this bad boy up (and I am sure there are plenty of other subwoofers out there that blow away my PB12-Plus, but I am happy to be content in my ignorance.)


Enough rambling on my part...

I am still curious to get other's opinions on my first post: The quality of Studio 60s versus Studio 20s both x-over at 80 Hz without the use of a subwoofer...

I'm actually kind of curious as to why you wanted to listen to them x'ed over but no sub in the picture. You wont be listening to them like that, will you?

I run my 20's small of course, x-over at 100Hz which sounds better to me than what seems to be the more popular 80Hz.

Servo15 sub BTW.

I am really taking in all the experience and comments about Paradigm Studio 60 and 100's...and regarding their amplification. I really want to know your experience with the Seismic 12 sub (I know, I know...this is NOT the sub forum, but it is Paradigm and I really want to know if this is not only a good Home Theater sub...but can it take over smoothly and hit QUICKLY and CLEANLY for music ???) If I go Studio 60 over the 100's, it seems reasonable to go a little more for a sub. WAF (wife) wants a sub that is not "too conspicuous" and I am willing to pay more $$$ for a decent but slightly smaller sub. Experience with this sub, please. ;)

I had a Seismic 12 for a week or so with my 20's....lots of output and digs pretty deep but for music I wasnt that impressed. I would guess that you can only expect so much from such a small box.

The Servo OTOH, has great output also but for musicality, it outperforms the Seismic bar none.
Even tho it takes up more room and is quite conspicous, the sound this sub puts out precedes any WAF. Like the saying goes, theres no replacement for displacement.

I am really taking in all the experience and comments about Paradigm Studio 60 and 100's...and regarding their amplification. I really want to know your experience with the Seismic 12 sub (I know, I know...this is NOT the sub forum, but it is Paradigm and I really want to know if this is not only a good Home Theater sub...but can it take over smoothly and hit QUICKLY and CLEANLY for music ???) If I go Studio 60 over the 100's, it seems reasonable to go a little more for a sub. WAF (wife) wants a sub that is not "too conspicuous" and I am willing to pay more $$$ for a decent but slightly smaller sub. Experience with this sub, please. ;)

I listened to the S 12 and the Vdyne SPL 1200R in home. Both subs were excellent for what I like. The Vdyne sounded a bit better on music to me. They were equal on movies.

I'm actually kind of curious as to why you wanted to listen to them x'ed over but no sub in the picture. You wont be listening to them like that, will you?


Which ever model I get, I plan on listening to them crossed over with a SVS PB12-Plus. The reason why I wanted to listen to them side by side crossed over without a subwoofer is that I was under the assumption that the Studio series line only differed in the low end bass extension. By crossing both speakers over with a sub, I was effectively eliminating any sound below 80 Hz (I know this is not a sharp cutoff and may explain why I heard a difference?), and I thought the 20s and 60s would sound the same. However, this was not the case in my experience.

I considered this, but ...for the price of the 40s with stands, I think I would prefer the 60s for not that much more money.
This is a big reason why I went with the 60s instead of the 40s (regardless of the fact that I ended up upgrading to 100s anyway). If you have to get stands for the 40s, there's no reason not to get 60s instead.

Regarding the phantom center, there's no way I would ever do a phantom center. It just doesn't sound good, despite the awesome imaging of Paradigms. I'd get the less expensive fronts to get a center channel, without a doubt.

Also, you're right that the 80Hz is not a steep cutoff, and that you probably need to crossover at 120Hz or higher to compare the mid and high end similarly (or put multiple crossovers inline to create a steep cutoff).

Sorry, I went the the 100's for the reasons you are comparing the 20/40/60's.

I have run my 100's as a phantom center and for me it did not work. The sound quality was I thought at times better than the CC-570, but it did not anchor the dialog where it belonged.

Is anyone else running their Studio 60's as 'large'? My Yamaha YPAO sets my speakers like this:

Studio 60 mains - Large
CC-470 - Large
ADP surrounds - Small

This is in a 12 x 20 room, which is acoustically treated. I know the conventional wisdom is to set them to 'small', and before I had my YPAO set to override speaker size selection and I set them all to 'small', but since the Yamaha thinks they should be large, maybe I should go with that? Perhaps because I have a smallish room that is tuned to avoid modal resonances and such my speakers are simply doing a better job than the sub?

Also, my sub isn't as good in quality as the rest of my system. It's a D-Box David 300, which is probably not even as good as Paradigm's PDR subs. So my thinking is that I should offload all the musical content from the sub and just let it supplement the LFE track.

Comments?

Dan,

The question is whether you find the bass lacking overall when they are set to small. If so, set them to large, and determine if the mid & upper range are muddied/affected. If so, the only way you'll improve it is by replacing the sub (best), or replacing the fronts, or biamping the fronts (note I did not say biwiring).

Is anyone else running their Studio 60's as 'large'? My Yamaha YPAO sets my speakers like this:

Studio 60 mains - Large
CC-470 - Large
ADP surrounds - Small

This is in a 12 x 20 room, which is acoustically treated. I know the conventional wisdom is to set them to 'small', and before I had my YPAO set to override speaker size selection and I set them all to 'small', but since the Yamaha thinks they should be large, maybe I should go with that? Perhaps because I have a smallish room that is tuned to avoid modal resonances and such my speakers are simply doing a better job than the sub?

Comments?

I'm currently running mine as 'large' for now. I'll leave them this way until the middle of Jan. then switch them to 'small'.

Well, I do think I like them set to 'large'. It could be because my sub is not as good, I'm just gettting muddy bass with the sub doing all the work. Perhaps I'll try to do some critical listening with them in both modes.

The other issue is that my bass shakers are run off the LFE to the sub, so with my speakers set to small I get more output to the shakers, which I'm not sure I like.

You can fix the shaker issue by using a passive crossover like an FMOD that's low-pass at 50Hz or 70Hz (typically).

Guys,

what is the break in time for the Studio 60s ? just got my pair and out of the box seems bright but i feel there is potential to this speaker. Bass is still hard but I can see good things in this.

I also notice that while it only requires 15 watts min, these babies really are good with 100watts per channel power amp but really gets better when you pump in 150watts. I'm now thinkin of going with a 300watts bryston. I think these speakers just needs watts !!!! wattsss!!!

thanks for inputs.

There is either no such thing as break in time... or it's in the manual.

I'm also of the opinion that the "break-in" time is simply for the listener to get themselves accustomed to how the speaker will sound in their setting. To me, my Studio 60's sound the same as the day I first set them up.

I don't often hear of the Studios being bright, they are usually described as neutral. What are you driving them with and what material are you playing?

Guys,

what is the break in time for the Studio 60s ? just got my pair and out of the box seems bright but i feel there is potential to this speaker. Bass is still hard but I can see good things in this.

I also notice that while it only requires 15 watts min, these babies really are good with 100watts per channel power amp but really gets better when you pump in 150watts. I'm now thinkin of going with a 300watts bryston. I think these speakers just needs watts !!!! wattsss!!!

thanks for inputs.

I believe that the manual gave a suggested break-in time. Interesting you mentioned that they are "bright". I don't think they would get less bright with time.

driving the studio 60s with bryston 3bsst power amp, also tried them with mccormack 0.5 and the bryston 3bst.

the 3bsst lessed the brightness to some degree.

on movies i dont find them bright, on 2 channel, on some cd, they can tend to sound bright, but again it might be the cd material that is causing them to sound "bright"

Did Paradigm have any new product news at CES? I'm curious if they'll be releasing any upgrades/new products in the next few months

i cannot find the thread but can someone give me an idea what crossover setting i should give for my

studio 60s( front left and right) , c570(center) and adp 370(rears) and subwoofer

using a lexicon processor

right now i have them all at 70 hz

many thanks.

i cannot find the thread but can someone give me an idea what crossover setting i should give for my

studio 60s( front left and right) , c570(center) and adp 370(rears) and subwoofer

using a lexicon processor

right now i have them all at 70 hz

many thanks.

I CANNOT COMMENT NOT HAVING THEM BUT THIS IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT I AM INTERESTED IN...SO ARE YOU NOT SATISFIED W/ CROSS-OVER AT 70 Hz ?

can not decide between the 60s and the 100s friend has the 60s and i like the way they sound but no dealer has 100s to demoe hear in houston. i cross mine over at 70 would there be a significant midbass gain over the 60s to warrant getting the 100s i it will be 50 music and 50 movies.

I have my Studio 60/570/470 crossed over at 60hz with my pw-2200 and it sounds great. My receiver is a Denon AVR3803.

I CANNOT COMMENT NOT HAVING THEM BUT THIS IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT I AM INTERESTED IN...SO ARE YOU NOT SATISFIED W/ CROSS-OVER AT 70 Hz ?


i'm not really sure-- tried them at 90 hz and recently 70 hz, cant seem to tell much difference.

i will try 40 hz sometime this week and see how that works out.

i think i still need to break in the studio 60s -- i think their bass might not produce enough low frequency since they seem stiff

Ferdinand-

I would really think that you are pushing it too much to set the crossover as low as 40Hz. I agree w/ efloen, as he is setting it at 60 Hz and seems very satisfied.

Ferdinand-

I would really think that you are pushing it too much to set the crossover as low as 40Hz. I agree w/ efloen, as he is setting it at 60 Hz and seems very satisfied.


hi wolv,

i will try it at 60 hz... maybe it will be ok.

does this mean that setting it at say 90hz vs 60 hz that the amplifier will be pushed harder because it has to produce more bass @ 60 hz compared to 90 hz ?

thanks.

If the AVR is set to large speakers the crossover will not affect the speakers & they will get full range coerect ? The 60's go down to 30 HZ so why would 40 be a bad idea ?
My 40's are set to large so they get full range NO ?

To answer a few of your questions, in my opinion..

There is no way you should use a 40Hz crossover, and 60Hz is still pushing it. You're sending way too much low frequency to those speakers that are outside its range to reproduce. That muddies the higher end as well (unless you biamp, but that's more cost than it's worth in most situations).
Let your sub reproduce the low end (<60Hz) - setting the crossover at 70-80Hz will have the slope low enough by the time it reaches 60Hz.

If you want more bass, get another or a bigger sub (another one ideally, which makes it easier to minimize room mode effects), or 100s. The difference is not huge in the low end between 60s and 100s, but is the most significant difference I noticed, along with the 100s being smoother, and taking on a slightly more reverberant sound (adds to the smoothness). At least that's why I hear.

To answer a few of your questions, in my opinion..

There is no way you should use a 40Hz crossover, and 60Hz is still pushing it. You're sending way too much low frequency to those speakers that are outside its range to reproduce. That muddies the higher end as well (unless you biamp, but that's more cost than it's worth in most situations).
Let your sub reproduce the low end (<60Hz) - setting the crossover at 70-80Hz will have the slope low enough by the time it reaches 60Hz.

If you want more bass, get another or a bigger sub (another one ideally, which makes it easier to minimize room mode effects), or 100s. The difference is not huge in the low end between 60s and 100s, but is the most significant difference I noticed, along with the 100s being smoother, and taking on a slightly more reverberant sound (adds to the smoothness). At least that's why I hear.


thank you, point taken!
in my lexicon there is a 80hz thx setting and a 80 hz w/o thx, what is the difference in the two ?
If say am using a smaller amplifier to drive the main speakers, would it be safe then i should put the cross over at 100 hz or so ?

thanks.

That information should be in your manual, or you could ask in this forum, but I'm not sure as I don't own that processor. 80Hz is the THX standard for low frequency crossover (but is just a guide), so I'm not sure what "w/THX" means in that context.

I think 80Hz is a good place to start with most setups, but the only thing that really matters is how it sounds to you. Put in various music and movies that you know well and want to test, and adjust until you like it. I was just trying to dissuade you from putting it at 40Hz, which is theoretically much too low for the reasons I stated.

I still dont understand if a speaker can go down to 30 or 35 HZ why would you cut it off @ 80HZ
If the speakers are set to large on a AVR they are getting full range so why set them to small & cut off the lows ?

Because there are often not enough drivers to separate the lows and highs, or enough power for the lows, to reproduce them effectively. I suppose it's similar to asking, "why not take your car to get some lumber?" when you have a car and a truck. The truck is better suited for the task, and the truck will perform better with a load than a car will with the same load, if that load is significant enough. (Ignore the part where this analogy breaks down since you're not driving both cars at the same time) :)

What this boils down to is that power hungry bass will take power away from the mid-range and tweeters which could be used to more accurately reproduce the sounds that they are capable of. Offloading that bass to a sub, and having the woofers in the mains go down somewhat low, but not too low (and 35Hz is definitely in the category, IMO) will give your drivers to more easily drive what they're given.

Take the example of an infinite baffle (IB) subwoofer.. Part of its purpose is to provide very low distortion (and powerful & low) bass by using multiple large (15+") drivers with plenty of power, and simply turning the gain down so it's at an acceptable level. That IB sub will drive a powerful low note more easily than a traditional sub, for example.

Because there are often not enough drivers to separate the lows and highs, or enough power for the lows, to reproduce them effectively. I suppose it's similar to asking, "why not take your car to get some lumber?" when you have a car and a truck. The truck is better suited for the task, and the truck will perform better with a load than a car will with the same load, if that load is significant enough. (Ignore the part where this analogy breaks down since you're not driving both cars at the same time) :)


How about changing it to a car and a trailer, with the car being the main speakers and the trailer being the subwoofer that you bring along to help carry the load?

The car will car the small pieces, high freq. and the trailer the big pieces, low freq.

Also, just because a speaker can reproduce sounds at 35hz doesn't mean it does so linearly. The Studio 60's are only linear down to 46 hz. Then they begin to roll off.

How about changing it to a car and a trailer, with the car being the main speakers and the trailer being the subwoofer that you bring along to help carry the load?

The car will car the small pieces, high freq. and the trailer the big pieces, low freq.
Except the mains don't have to "pull" the sub.. it's powered by itself. Almost like taking a load off the car and putting it in a truck and driving along with it. But it was probably a bad analogy anyway.. :)

Great point, Dan.

Just received my Studio 20's as fronts as iam trying to build into the reference line. Wow i love these speakers already and havent even ripped the knob off yet. Previously i owned v.2 mini monitors which were great to me but i felt it was time to move onto the next line in the paradigm series, so i will be putting them on ebay shortly. Iam also stuck with the cc370- v.4 for my center which i need to sell as well, bought it last august i believe and is in great shape, It does the job for now. I plan on eventually getting the 100's for fronts but i need to have a lot of power and find an amp to compliment my yamaha rx-540 receiver which is pretty old as is. So i have some decisions to make concerning my system, but i could not be more satisfied than getting my 20's on ebay brand new from a great seller and a unbelievable price.

I pushed my 100s with a yamaha rx-540 until I got my Anthem gear. It will push them while you wait to upgrade.

Hey guys & gals . My 40's since I got them were on a wood wall unit (sitting right on the wood) with a DLP on the unit its about 22' tall 24" deep solid wood . I just installed audip points under my 40's & wow the mids were smoother-the highs crisper- the lows tighter .
Great tweek check them out
http://www.audiopoints.com/audiopoints.html

Hey guys (and gals) great thread! I just read all 31 pages. Phew.

Anyway, I've been eyeing a set of Studio 60's for quite some time and have some questions regarding them.

My current 6.1 system is:

NAD T752 receiver running the center, surrounds and rear center
NAD C272 2 channel amp running my fronts
Polk RT55i mains
Polk CSi40 center
Polk RTi28 surrounds
Paradigm Mini Monitor rear center (see, Paradigm content :) )

I am looking to get into a set of Studio 60's and a CC570 front. I might replace the surrounds someday, but probably not right away. On to the questions:

1) Is the C272 big enough to run Studio 60's? How about 100's if the salesguy is really good?

2) What's the preferred position for the center with a RPTV that has a stand underneath? Most TVs these days are not wide enough on top to support a center, especially one the size of the CC570. I could build a shelf behind the TV attached to the wall. Has anyone found a decent TV stand that has enough room for a huge center and components underneath the TV? Maybe I'll just go front projection and not worry about it :)

3) I know that running a different brand surrounds and a MiniMonitor rear center isn't ideal, but unfortunately there is no room to put a larger speaker in back for the surrounds (except MAYBE some dipoles wall mounted). I like the sound of direct radiating back there anyway, seems like this is more of a personal choice than anything else. Assuming the rear center is stuck being a direct radiating speaker (which it is), would dipoles sound weird back there? How about inwalls?

Anyway, thanks in advance!

Fast351,

1) Yes, it should work fine with the 60s. Obviously, the more power, the better. My 100Wx7 receiver worked fine with the 60s I had. I'd look into upgrading that amp if you get the 100s.

2) The preferred position for a center channel when not using a projection screen (where it is ideally behind an acoustically transparent screen) is above the TV. Find some sort of shelf that will work well, and be able to angle the center channel at ear level of the listening position. The CC-570 is relatively heavy, so just be sure the shelf is strong enough.

3) Dipoles won't sound strange behind you.. Either way, I'd definitely go to 7.1 or change the rear surround to a dipole. It's not the best situation to use a direct radiating speaker for the rear surround in a 6.1 system, since our ears cannot easily discern whether the sound is coming from in front or behind us, due to the equidistance from each ear to the speaker.

I was at my local Paradigm distributor recently, and I asked them about the center channel issue I have..

I have a TV for casual viewing (TV, etc) and a front projector for movies, and I can't have a center channel abouve the TV because it will be covered by my pull down screen for the projector..

The alternative suggested was to have the TV sitting as high as it can against the wall (bottom of the TV sitting at waist height), and the center channel directly below and angled upwards..

Acceptable?

Guess I should show you a layout of what I'm working with:

http://www.fast351.com/tmppics/ht.gif

Yes I'm a CAD wienie :)

The (what was a recliner when I drew this) in the center is now a couch. The rear of the room is a staircase. The rear center is on a shelf above the staircase. The two surrounds are on stands. Turning the system into a 7.1 would put the two rear surrounds in different positions relative to the listener, a nono I would think. Ceiling speakers would be the only other option and Im not fond of that.

Not sure that wall mounted speakers would pass the WAF factor either, although lately I've been able to get away with a fair amount.

The rear center is the only thing that concerns me. Tough to turn that one into a dipole since there is not really a flat wall tehre to mount against.

Thanks for the tips though!

Forgot to mention, I do have an SVS PB12 sub so I'm not sure that the shift from 60's to 100's is really worth the extra dough.

-Mike

Hey guys & gals . My 40's since I got them were on a wood wall unit (sitting right on the wood) with a DLP on the unit its about 22' tall 24" deep solid wood . I just installed audip points under my 40's & wow the mids were smoother-the highs crisper- the lows tighter .
Great tweek check them out
http://www.audiopoints.com/audiopoints.html

I also noticed an improvement in sound when I put my speakers up on spikes but you dont have to spend that much money on a few pieces of metal. I got spikes and floor protectors (my monitor 7s sit on hardwood) for less than $10.

Check out this link and scroll down about 3/4.

http://www.madisound.com/accessories.html

They come with spikes, don't they?

Now about my center channel question..

:)

Mike,

I now see your dilemma.. it's not completely clear to me how tall each of those walls are and the staircase, etc, but anyway.. looks like you indeed are limited to 6.1 if you don't want to go the ceiling route. Oh, and I wasn't inferring that you should get the 100s.. just that if you did, you'd probably want a better amp. I'd go with the 60s in your situation as well.

Doug,

I don't think I'd personally want to have to mount that TV up so high. It'd probably be awkward, and be at an improper angle for normal viewing. What I did was put my TV in the corner, just off the edge of the screen, and just don't use the surround system since it's casual viewing. Then I can put the center channel just below the screen.

Mike,

I now see your dilemma.. it's not completely clear to me how tall each of those walls are and the staircase, etc, but anyway.. looks like you indeed are limited to 6.1 if you don't want to go the ceiling route. Oh, and I wasn't inferring that you should get the 100s.. just that if you did, you'd probably want a better amp. I'd go with the 60s in your situation as well.

Seems like I have pictures of everything :)

Rear center (http://www.fast351.com/ht/IMG_0950.jpg)

I noticed you switched from the 60's to the 100's Tim. What made you decide to upgrade? Big difference?

-Mike

What I did was put my TV in the corner

Hmm..

That's one way to go..

Though when I say casual viewing that's a bit misleading, as I generally watch 7-10 hours a week of TV, whereas movies I watch one every week or so..

And it's action stuff, not just comedy, so nice sound (not just the TV speakers) would be nice..

So to have the TV relegated to the side, where it will be even more awkward according to my preference..

I like watching TV straight on, right in front of me, and of course the furniture I will want centered according to the room, and if the TV is off to the side, unless I move the furniture between movies and TV.. :)

Like I say, angling the center channel would be an option..

I just want to know if the soundstage/imaging is impaired..

I could have the TV sitting lower I suppose..

Though how far away do you have to be sitting before that's not an issue..

We look up at screens at the movie theather..

We look up at the big screen tv's in bars, etc..

Ahh... by casual viewing, that means one of two things to my wife and me:

A) News
B) The projector's broken

I can't imagine watching any kind of action show (e.g. "24" or "Lost") and seeing it on my "tiny" 32" TV (SD no less).

How high you can have it depends on the size of your TV, and like you said, how far away you are. Typically you want your eye level to be about 1/3 to 1/2 up from the bottom of the screen, though I've usually only heard that rule as it applies to screens.

Seems like I have pictures of everything :)

Rear center (http://www.fast351.com/ht/IMG_0950.jpg)

I noticed you switched from the 60's to the 100's Tim. What made you decide to upgrade? Big difference?

-Mike
Basically, I got the 100s because I knew I'd probably eventually want to upgrade to them, and the dealer near us gives us 100% of our money back from an original purchase to upgrade, and I had the 60s for 11 months.

I wanted a bit more bass in the short term, until I end up building an IB sub system, and my wife and I liked the clarity and slight tone/spaciousness (reverb) that the 100s provided.

Now that I have them, I'm not sure whether I'm glad I got them, though. I know that I don't have to wonder whether the 100s are better though, which might have bugged me for the whole time I had 60s. The 100s are better, IMO, but I'm not sure if they're worth the extra cost, when there are other things that I could get as well. I imagine that if I had a dedicated amp, the benefits would be more noticable. But the bottom line is I don't have to worry about upgrading the fronts (or center) anymore.

I can't imagine watching any kind of action show (e.g. "24" or "Lost") and seeing it on my "tiny" 32" TV"

My 35" fares a little better..

And I want the bulb on the projector to last as long as possible..

I don't think upping the viewing height on the TV should be a problem..

The image I project on my pull down screen sits higher, and is larger (70"x30", taking into account letterboxing)..

I sit about 8' away, and the image is 4' off the floor to 6'5 at the top..

I don't find it awkward at all..

But we keep dancing around what I really would like an answer for.. :)

DOES angling the center up or down signifigantly impair soundstage/imaging properties?

DOES angling the center up or down significantly impair soundstage/imaging properties?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No. For the most part the center is placed under the projector screen/plasma angled up at the listening position. Or (as in my case) placed on top of a big screen angled down at the listening position. If your center is not aimed at the listening position that could impair soundstage/imaging properties.

Having your center directly below the TV and angled slightly up should be fine.

I used to think the same way about the bulb until I realized (after calculations and enlightenment from forum members) that it costs me about a dime an hour in "bulb costs". I'll gladly pay that to get a 106" HD image instead of 32" SD.

Regarding the center channel, the ideal is directly behind your display (acoustically transparent screen.. I only mention this for completeness), the next best is just above your display, since our ears can't discern as easily where audio is coming from when it's above us, so it will image better by being above, and next would be just below the screen. In either case, it's quite important to angle the speaker (if necessary) at your ear level, even if it means lifting the back up slightly on a level shelf (similar to a table top projector).

I'll see what I can do..

But seeing as the screen (a Dalite widescreen) comes to only 4.5' off the ground with my 8 ceiling..

I guess I could have the pulldown recess into the ceiling a bit, but that might get messy.. I'll talk to my builder about it..

Failing that option I'll be putting the center at about 4', with the TV directly above (it's shielded, right?)..

That should be around ear level from a sitting position, so we may be ok..

What do you have for a projector, Tim?

I've got an aging Sony VPL-400Q (bought it in 2000, right around when they stopped making them) that I'll be upgrading in June when I get into the new house..

Thinking a Panasonic, maybe..

Basically, I got the 100s because I knew I'd probably eventually want to upgrade to them, and the dealer near us gives us 100% of our money back from an original purchase to upgrade, and I had the 60s for 11 months.

I wanted a bit more bass in the short term, until I end up building an IB sub system, and my wife and I liked the clarity and slight tone/spaciousness (reverb) that the 100s provided.

Now that I have them, I'm not sure whether I'm glad I got them, though.


Yesterday I ordered a CC570, to go with the 20s I bought last summer. My dealer also has the same trade up policy, in which I get almost 100% for the 20s if I bought 60s, or 100% for 100s.

I also plan on installing an IB sub, the head guru (Thomas) over at the "Cult", suggested to me that one's L/R speakers should go down an octave below the sub' X-over point. So set at 80 Hz, the mains should go down into the 40 Hz range, in which both the 60s and 100s should work.

What improvements/ compromises are you getting between the 60s and 100s? I feel the midrange / bass could be improved on the 20s, hoping that the sealed design of the 570 will better them.

The 60s would be the same height as my 20s are now on my DIY stands (We have one of those sink into leather couches). The only advantage I could see getting the 100s would be if the midrange /bass is more detailed and balanced. Is this the case? Also, is the horizontal dispersion about the same? Because of windows on each side of my RPTV, I have to space the L/Rs 8' apart, which is pushing it for the little Studio 20s. Problem is, this also puts one of them as close as 20" to one side wall. That doesn't seem to effect the 20s, but maybe using something as big as the 100s could cause boomier bass?

When I was demo'ing the 60 vs 100, I felt like the 100's were clearer in the midrange/bass. I don't really know if the 100's actually go lower but I felt like they did. That was the reason I went with them instead of the 60's because I listen to a lot of 2-channel music.

The CC-570 is actually ported in the back -- two ports. I'd be interested to know what you think of the Studio 20/CC-570/Studio 20 setup.

The CC-570 is actually ported in the back -- two ports. I'd be interested to know what you think of the Studio 20/CC-570/Studio 20 setup.

My bad, that's what I get for basing my facts from the picture of a web site :o I auditioned the 470 at my dealer, but they had no 570s in stock.
An email from the factory assured me that the 570 would work with the 20s, but I'll report my findings ASAP when it come in.

Since I do have to pull the 20s further apart, my thinking was the larger center would fill the soundstage better...we will see. My dealer does have a one week "no questions asked" return policy, so I could always trade it in for the 470, which they had in stock.

Whats the best way to get the angle correct on a CC-450 ,its hard to tell with the trapozoidal shape My CC450 sith on top of my samsunng dlp tv & it is rather high I would have to guess its about 43" to center

How about a laser level/pointer, placed on the top of the cabniet?

Yea but the speaker is like a V so it would be pointing up

:confused:
I am a newbie here, and enjoy reading the post on the Paradigm speakers. I am thinking of of maybe buying the Cinema group, probably the 110 series. Any comments on these? Small room 10 x 12 feet, Panny 42" plasma, Panny DMREH50S, and Pioneer VSX-1015THX. (trashing the Bose Acoustimass 7) mostly HT , some music.

I seem to have a little trouble locating an on-line dealer. Are there any. I understand the weight of speakers, could be detrimental shipping factor, for on-line business, but many of the other brands are present. There does seem to be a small selection of Paradigm on ebay. I may go piece-meal, and go with an HSU sub, they seem to get good praise.
Thanks

I'll see what I can do..

But seeing as the screen (a Dalite widescreen) comes to only 4.5' off the ground with my 8 ceiling..

I guess I could have the pulldown recess into the ceiling a bit, but that might get messy.. I'll talk to my builder about it..

Failing that option I'll be putting the center at about 4', with the TV directly above (it's shielded, right?)..

That should be around ear level from a sitting position, so we may be ok..

What do you have for a projector, Tim?

I've got an aging Sony VPL-400Q (bought it in 2000, right around when they stopped making them) that I'll be upgrading in June when I get into the new house..

Thinking a Panasonic, maybe..
Maybe I'm not following.. wouldn't you want to have the screen a bit lower, not higher? You're planning on putting the bottom of the TV at 4' high? Wow.. what kind of stand do you have that on? Mine weighs 170lbs..

A list of my equipment is linked to from my signature.. My current main projector is a BenQ PE7700 (720p DLP), projected onto a 106" screen.

What improvements/ compromises are you getting between the 60s and 100s? I feel the midrange / bass could be improved on the 20s, hoping that the sealed design of the 570 will better them.

The 60s would be the same height as my 20s are now on my DIY stands (We have one of those sink into leather couches). The only advantage I could see getting the 100s would be if the midrange /bass is more detailed and balanced. Is this the case? Also, is the horizontal dispersion about the same? Because of windows on each side of my RPTV, I have to space the L/Rs 8' apart, which is pushing it for the little Studio 20s. Problem is, this also puts one of them as close as 20" to one side wall. That doesn't seem to effect the 20s, but maybe using something as big as the 100s could cause boomier bass?
I liked the imaging of the 100s with the 570; a bit better than the 60s. The 60s are really better matched with the 470.

I notice the bass being a slight bit better, but I really use my sub for that mostly anyway. With an external amplifier it will get even better as well, but I haven't invested in that yet.

One other thing I like about the 100s is that it's not ported, since I'm likely going to put them in their own built in frame when I build my dedicated HT in the future. I still need to figure out how the porting on the 570 will be affected by that same scenario.

wouldn't you want to have the screen a bit lower, not higher?

Why?

The lower I would go with the pull down screen, the lower the center channel under it would be, right?..

I dont have a stand for the TV, yet.. I may have to custom build it.. In fact I'm sure of it..

It'll have to be sloid, true.. :)

ah, missed that bit in the signiture..

My screen is 30" high (with the center immediately below it) and I wish it were lower.. Just something non-cinematic about having to look so high for the picture. Angling the center channel does a decent job of adjusting for the less-than-ideal environment.

Of course, this is all assuming you move your TV to the corner.. I'll post a picture of my setup to give you a better idea of how it looks, when I get the chance..

IMO, the 60s are really better matched with the 470.

Fixed.:D

Just something non-cinematic about having to look so high for the picture.

Really?

I would have said the opposite was true..

Here's my set-up, currently.. The center is way too low, and not angled at all..

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/6981/htroomsmall9ug.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The pull downscreen comes down to about halfway down the length of the TV..

I won't be doing a built in for the new place, I don't think..

I want the fronts free standing..

Yesterday I ordered a CC570, to go with the 20s I bought last summer. My dealer also has the same trade up policy, in which I get almost 100% for the 20s if I bought 60s, or 100% for 100s.

I also plan on installing an IB sub, the head guru (Thomas) over at the "Cult", suggested to me that one's L/R speakers should go down an octave below the sub' X-over point. So set at 80 Hz, the mains should go down into the 40 Hz range, in which both the 60s and 100s should work.

What improvements/ compromises are you getting between the 60s and 100s? I feel the midrange / bass could be improved on the 20s, hoping that the sealed design of the 570 will better them.

The 60s would be the same height as my 20s are now on my DIY stands (We have one of those sink into leather couches). The only advantage I could see getting the 100s would be if the midrange /bass is more detailed and balanced. Is this the case? Also, is the horizontal dispersion about the same? Because of windows on each side of my RPTV, I have to space the L/Rs 8' apart, which is pushing it for the little Studio 20s. Problem is, this also puts one of them as close as 20" to one side wall. That doesn't seem to effect the 20s, but maybe using something as big as the 100s could cause boomier bass?

Just stumbled across this thread and I should be able to help with your questions.

All of the Paradigm speakers within a given line (Studio, Performance, etc.) are "voiced" to sound the same, the main difference will be low frequency extension and overall output (loudness) capability as you go up the line. Any of the speakers within the studio line will work well together.

About the 570 center. The 570 is much better engineered than the 470 when it comes to off-axis frequency response. While the 470 and 570 will sound very similar when you are sitting right in the sweet spot, the sound will remain more consistent with the 570 when you sit to the left or right, all because of the additional 4" midrange driver in the 570.

Again the main difference between the 60's and the 100's is that the 100's will have more extended bass and they will play louder. The 100's might also have a slight edge in the midrange if the two speakers are being played full range at highish volumes. If you plan to cross the 60's over to a sub, the advantages of the 100's virtually disappear. However, either speaker will be a step up from the 20's. The additional drivers in the 60's and 100's results in a more effortless sound. The 20's are really best suited for low to medium volumes and small rooms.

Now for the most important part. Yes, I believe there is a very good chance that you will run into trouble with the 100's being close to a side wall, but not because of the horizontal dispersion. Bass is essentially omni-directional, but the proximity of the bass drivers in the 100 to any wall will reinforce certain bass frequencies. I don't want to get overly technical, but the bottom line is that you should audition the 100's in your home before committing to them. If you can't do that, go for the 60's.

The truth is that I learned the hard way. I used to own the Paradigm Signature S8's (essentially a high-end 100) but had to sell them and get the smaller S4's because I had a set-up constraint very similar to yours. I get better sound with the smaller S4's paired with a sub than I did the S8's, all because of my room.

One other thing I like about the 100s is that it's not ported, since I'm likely going to put them in their own built in frame when I build my dedicated HT in the future. I still need to figure out how the porting on the 570 will be affected by that same scenario.

The 100s have front ports. I assume you meant they are not rear-ported. My 570 sounds like it has more bass than the 470 that it replaced, and I'm betting at least part of that has to do with the rear ports and their proximity to the rear wall. Still not sure if I like that added bass or not.

Doug, given your built-in situation, I'm not sure you have too many options. Are you considering tearing some of that apart? At the least you could angle the center, though.

wuttuptae, yes I meant that they're not rear-ported. Thanks for the correction.

I'm building a new house..

I can do whatever I want.. :)

This is from my current one..

Ahh.. I see. Well, it's all up to personal preference, of course. If you have another room that you want a TV in, you could put it there, or you could put it behind the screen as you have now, or in the corner as I have mine now. In my next house, I'll be choosing the second option (in a separate room).

I liked the imaging of the 100s with the 570; a bit better than the 60s. The 60s are really better matched with the 470.

I notice the bass being a slight bit better, but I really use my sub for that mostly anyway. With an external amplifier it will get even better as well, but I haven't invested in that yet.


Thanks. Right now I'm running everything off the amps in my Rotel 1055 receiver, but if I do go with the larger Paradigms, I have an Aragon 8008BB that should work. :)

I wish Aragon made a reasonably priced mono amp that I could use for the center, guess I'll have to go used.

Just stumbled across this thread and I should be able to help with your questions.

About the 570 center. The 570 is much better engineered than the 470 when it comes to off-axis frequency response. While the 470 and 570 will sound very similar when you are sitting right in the sweet spot, the sound will remain more consistent with the 570 when you sit to the left or right, all because of the additional 4" midrange driver in the 570.

That's good to hear, my L shaped couch has a fairly off axis seating spot at one end.


Now for the most important part. Yes, I believe there is a very good chance that you will run into trouble with the 100's being close to a side wall, but not because of the horizontal dispersion. Bass is essentially omni-directional, but the proximity of the bass drivers in the 100 to any wall will reinforce certain bass frequencies. I don't want to get overly technical, but the bottom line is that you should audition the 100's in your home before committing to them. If you can't do that, go for the 60's.

Actually my dealer keeps a pair of demo 100s in stock, but not the 60s. So I will be able to take them home for a weekend to check out. Thanks for your help.

I'm going to be using the Studio 60's with the CC-470 for the center channel in my home theater. I was wondering if the CC-570 is that much better than the CC-470. Is the CC-570 worth the money?

Let me know what you think.

I'm going to be using the Studio 60's with the CC-470 for the center channel in my home theater. I was wondering if the CC-570 is that much better than the CC-470. Is the CC-570 worth the money?

Let me know what you think.


In a word, yes. But see post #906 in this thread for a more detailed explanation.

Cheers.

For anyone who has an entire Paradigm 7.2 setup (or close to it), will the Yamaha RX-V2600 receiver drive all of these speakers?

I'm planning on using the Studio 60's for the L/R, CC-470 (maybe CC-570) for the center, 4 ADP-470's for the surrounds and 2 Seismic 12's for the subs. Can the Yamaha handle it?

Let me hear what you think.

Woohoo!

Sounds like a sweet set-up!

Yamaha makes an excellent reciever, and the one you have in mind is no exception, and at 130W per channel will drive your speakers with no problem..

Though not having any experience with running 2 subs, I can't say for certain wether this reciever is set up to do this..

I'm sure it is, but can't say for sure..

I'm going to be using the Studio 60's with the CC-470 for the center channel in my home theater. I was wondering if the CC-570 is that much better than the CC-470. Is the CC-570 worth the money?

Let me know what you think.

If your budget allows, get the 570. If not the 470 is no slouch.

I think I'll stick with my old 450 (bought it 8 years ago)..

I don't care if those to the either side of me get as good a listening experience as I do.. :)

I wonder though, is there any difference between the 450 and the 470?

I'm going to be using the Studio 60's with the CC-470 for the center channel in my home theater. I was wondering if the CC-570 is that much better than the CC-470. Is the CC-570 worth the money?

Let me know what you think.


I have the studio 60 as well and was debating between the cc470 and the cc570-- after auditioning both and talking to few guys on this forum, i went with the 570 and i wasnt disappointed at all!!! The 570 is awesome!

i went with the 570 and i wasnt disappointed at all!!! The 570 is awesome!

In what respect did you find they differ, apart from wider soundstage (better for those seated to either side of center)?

I have the studio 60 as well and was debating between the cc470 and the cc570-- after auditioning both and talking to few guys on this forum, i went with the 570 and i wasnt disappointed at all!!! The 570 is awesome!

ditto.

For anyone who has an entire Paradigm 7.2 setup (or close to it), will the Yamaha RX-V2600 receiver drive all of these speakers?

I'm planning on using the Studio 60's for the L/R, CC-470 (maybe CC-570) for the center, 4 ADP-470's for the surrounds and 2 Seismic 12's for the subs. Can the Yamaha handle it?

Let me hear what you think.
The subs are out of the equation, since you'll just run a splitter off of the line level output of your receiver. You shouldn't have a problem with that setup, especially since the surrounds won't tax the receiver very much in the first place.

Granted, a dedicated amp for the front two or three channels would help even more, but the system will sound awesome without as well.

I also started out with a 470 as I heard/read that it was matched to the 60's.
I wasn't too happy with it so my dealer let me try the 570 and the difference I noted was a little more clarity in the mid-range. I think having the seperate smaller mid-driver crossed over in the mid-range gives a cleaner sound than having two big 7 inchers trying to pull a double duty thing. In fact I would love to see how the 60's would sound if they added an extra 4 or 5 incher "mid" in them.
Maybe V.4? ;)

I do have a smaller room and I was coming from using a CC-370 which to me sounded cleaner than the 470. I think the more capable 470/570's are reacting to my room alot more, so not everyone will share this view.

[QUOTE=LEVESQUE]Strangely, I came to the exact opposite conclusion after trying both series in my room for 2 weeks. My dynamic range is so great in there that the differences were clearly audible, particularly on soft parts. At 115 db on a DD track, it's not major (like any speakers would be :D ), but with a good CD or multi-ch recording, the differences were well worth the price to my ears. ;)


This was my experience also. The Sigs complete lack of coloration, coupled with their excellent soundstaging and detail, makes listening to them, a lifelike experience that I've had with no other speakers - and I've been listening to speakers seriously for over 30 years.

2 questions:

1) Where exactly should the front 2 speakers be pointing (straight ahead, at the main seating position, just infront of the main seating position, etc.). Speakers are 8' apart and the main seating position is 14 feet back.

2) I am going to have a cabinet built for a new plasma tv - the new cabinet will be about 55" wide and 25" deep. Anyway - due to room limitations, i have a problem with the placement of the center speaker - the builder suggested that the center speaker be placed inside the cabinet vertically. What do you think about this idea?

equipment - denon 4806 receiver, fronts: paradigm studio monitor 40s; center: cc570; rears 470s; subs: (2) infinity sw-12s

Any ideas would be appreciated.

2 questions:
1) Where exactly should the front 2 speakers be pointing (straight ahead, at the main seating position, just infront of the main seating position, etc.). Speakers are 8' apart and the main seating position is 14 feet back. There should be a picture in your manual that shows the proper angles -- basically it says to make them intersect behind the main listening position (kinda aiming them at the shoulders of the listener) and the distance between the speakers should be about 3/4 the distance to main listening position.

There should be a picture in your manual that shows the proper angles -- basically it says to make them intersect behind the main listening position (kinda aiming them at the shoulders of the listener) and the distance between the speakers should be about 3/4 the distance to main listening position.

Thank you, due to room limitations, i can only spread the fronts out by 8', that is why i was asking that question.

2 questions:

2) I am going to have a cabinet built for a new plasma tv - the new cabinet will be about 55" wide and 25" deep. Anyway - due to room limitations, i have a problem with the placement of the center speaker - the builder suggested that the center speaker be placed inside the cabinet vertically. What do you think about this idea?

equipment - denon 4806 receiver, fronts: paradigm studio monitor 40s; center: cc570; rears 470s; subs: (2) infinity sw-12s

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Really, the CC570 is not meant to be used vertically as you will lose the broad horitzontal dispertion characterstics of the speaker that way. However, you may find that is sounds just fine. Give it a try. If that doesn't work out, us a single studio 40 as a center.

Really, the CC570 is not meant to be used vertically as you will lose the broad horitzontal dispertion characterstics of the speaker that way. However, you may find that is sounds just find. Give it a try. If that doesn't work out, us a single studio 40 as a center.

thank you:

the new cabinet is going to be 36" high. Then, the plasma will be about 35" high (with the stand). I basically have my choice - build a stand behind the plasma (about 36" high) on the back side of the cabinet top for the horizontal center speaker or put the center speaker or a studio 40 (your good idea) in the cabinet below the tv. Its a tough call.

thank you:

the new cabinet is going to be 36" high. Then, the plasma will be about 35" high (with the stand). I basically have my choice - build a stand behind the plasma (about 36" high) on the back side of the cabinet top for the horizontal center speaker or put the center speaker or a studio 40 (your good idea) in the cabinet below the tv. Its a tough call.

I understand your predicament. Most of us have compromises to make. Ultimately you want the center to be the same height at the L/Rs, but if that isn't possible, (slightly) higher is typically better than lower. So how far off the floor would the center speaker be in each of your options?

Hello all
I will soon retire my trusty Paradigm setup, after 4 great years, as I'm shifting myself to a little higher grounds.
I am parting with a pair of Studio 60 v2's, CC, and ADP's.
(The Servo 15 will keep rocking the building!)
The new family will bear the JMlab Electra name tag. (926 fronts)
Sayonara dear friends!
:-)

I'm looking very close at the Studio 60 and 100 and could use a little advice:

1. Would a Denon 4306 130Wx7 drive the 100's or would I be better to go with the 60's and buy a powered subwoofer?

2. Paradigm is showning dealers in Covina and Montclair neither of which are all that close to me. If anybody knows of any other B&M Paradigm dealers in North Orange County CA I could use a lead. I really would like to buy from the guy who demos them for me if at all possible.

3. If I do go Internet for the purchase are there any preferred sources or deals.

4. I plan on using my existing Ascend CBM-170s for the surrounds and sticking with my Ascend Center Channel. Does this sound OK or will it be a real mismatch?

TIA

IP

ALWAYS better to go with a powered subwoofer..

I understand your predicament. Most of us have compromises to make. Ultimately you want the center to be the same height at the L/Rs, but if that isn't possible, (slightly) higher is typically better than lower. So how far off the floor would the center speaker be in each of your options?


in a horizontal configuration the center speaker would be 72" off the floor while the l/r would be aboout 40" off the floor

in a vertical configuration - the center would be about 12" off the floor while the l/r would be still 40" off the floor

Hey Everyone!

I listened to the Studio 60's and 100's last week. It sounded to me like the 60's were more controlled and tighter than the 100's. The 100's sounded way less controlled and boomier. What do you think? Was it the dealer's set up or is that how the two types of speakers are? At this point I'm definitely going to get the 60's...

Let me know what you think or what your experience has been. Thanks!

Hey Everyone!

I listened to the Studio 60's and 100's last week. It sounded to me like the 60's were more controlled and tighter than the 100's. The 100's sounded way less controlled and boomier. What do you think? Was it the dealer's set up or is that how the two types of speakers are? At this point I'm definitely going to get the 60's...

Let me know what you think or what your experience has been. Thanks!

The 100's reproduce bass better than the 60's according to my ears. If I did not have a sub I would have gotten the 100's. From a bass standpoint I thought the 100's were deeper and tighter, not boomier.

Hey Everyone!

I listened to the Studio 60's and 100's last week. It sounded to me like the 60's were more controlled and tighter than the 100's. The 100's sounded way less controlled and boomier. What do you think? Was it the dealer's set up or is that how the two types of speakers are? At this point I'm definitely going to get the 60's...

Let me know what you think or what your experience has been. Thanks!

What was the dealer using to power the 100s?

in a horizontal configuration the center speaker would be 72" off the floor while the l/r would be aboout 40" off the floor

in a vertical configuration - the center would be about 12" off the floor while the l/r would be still 40" off the floor

Hmm.... That is a tough one. I'd still probably go with the high one. The reason: I think placing the Studio 40 just 12" off the floor will make voices too chesty (bass heavy) and will likely make the midrange sound muddy.

Just be sure to tilt the speaker down at the seated listening position.

Good luck.

Hey Everyone!

I listened to the Studio 60's and 100's last week. It sounded to me like the 60's were more controlled and tighter than the 100's. The 100's sounded way less controlled and boomier. What do you think? Was it the dealer's set up or is that how the two types of speakers are? At this point I'm definitely going to get the 60's...

Let me know what you think or what your experience has been. Thanks!

I doubt it had anything to do with the amplification and everything to do with room acoustics and speaker placement. The 100's are much more sensative to proper placement in relation to the surrounding walls because of the multiple drivers. The thing you have to be careful about is that yYou don't want any of the three bass drivers to be the same distance from the sidewalls, the backwall or the floor. If you have a lot of flexibility in your listening room to find the right placement, the 100's are a great speaker that WILL NOT sound boomy. If your speaker placement options are limited, you would be safer using the 60's (or 40's) and a sub.

What was the dealer using to power the 100s?

It was one of the McIntosh amps.

I doubt it had anything to do with the amplification and everything to do with room acoustics and speaker placement. The 100's are much more sensative to proper placement in relation to the surrounding walls because of the multiple drivers. The thing you have to be careful about is that yYou don't want any of the three bass drivers to be the same distance from the sidewalls, the backwall or the floor. If you have a lot of flexibility in your listening room to find the right placement, the 100's are a great speaker that WILL NOT sound boomy. If your speaker placement options are limited, you would be safer using the 60's (or 40's) and a sub.

The speakers were not the same distance from the walls and floor. Nor were they close to any of the walls. They were probably 3' from the wall behind them and 6' feet from the side walls.

The 100's reproduce bass better than the 60's according to my ears. If I did not have a sub I would have gotten the 100's. From a bass standpoint I thought the 100's were deeper and tighter, not boomier.

I'm not an audiophile, nor do I play one on TV. To me the 60's were a lot cleaner (tighter). I can't describe it in technical terms, but the 60's sounded better to me. The 60's were also way better sounding than the 20's. They sounded very tinny and small to me compared with the 60's.

I'm not an audiophile, nor do I play one on TV. To me the 60's were a lot cleaner (tighter). I can't describe it in technical terms, but the 60's sounded better to me. The 60's were also way better sounding than the 20's. They sounded very tinny and small to me compared with the 60's.

I still stand by my statement that it was probably room interactions that caused the 100's to sound too bass heavy. None the less, if you can, try both the 60's and the 100's in your room.

I'm not an audiophile, nor do I play one on TV. To me the 60's were a lot cleaner (tighter). I can't describe it in technical terms, but the 60's sounded better to me. The 60's were also way better sounding than the 20's. They sounded very tinny and small to me compared with the 60's.

Get what you think sounds best. It's your system so you're the one that has to be happy.

I have the 60s. If I was going to do a 2 channel set up I would have gotten the 100s.

Hi,

I'm looking to get a pair of Studio 60's or 100's in the near future, but am still debating over which ones to get. It seems that the people who purchase 100's are also 2-ch music listeners. As for me, I'm a HT guy (probably 90-95% of the time). I should also note that my viewing room is small (10 x 14 x 12, I know) and my placement options are rather limited. For all you Paradigm owners out there, would the 100's provide significant sonic improvements over the 60's for HT use, or do they sound like overkill for what I plan to use them for? And for those saying to audition them first, my situation is that I can get a pair of used 60 v3s for a pretty good price, but I have to act VERY soon. Help is needed, and fast.....

Dayta,

I am/was in the exact same situation as you.. 90+% HT use, and I went from the 60s to the 100s. However.. do you have a decent sub (or two)? If so, I'd recommend sticking with the 60s. The 100s are indeed better, but I'm not convinced that the additional cost was worth it for me. They do indeed sound better, IMO, and I know I won't be second guessing "should I have gotten the 100s?" like if I hadn't, but knowing what I do now, I'd probably have stayed with the 60s. If money is less of an issue, get the 100s.

One strike against the 100s in your case is your inflexibility with placement. They're a bit more sensitive to proper placement than the typical speaker, as you've probably heard.

Since you can get a good deal on some 60s, I'd go for it if I were you. In fact, even if you don't have the best sub, you can buy one with the difference, and I guarantee you that 60s + a great sub will sound better than just 100s.

Hi,

I'm looking to get a pair of Studio 60's or 100's in the near future, but am still debating over which ones to get. It seems that the people who purchase 100's are also 2-ch music listeners. As for me, I'm a HT guy (probably 90-95% of the time). I should also note that my viewing room is small (10 x 14 x 12, I know) and my placement options are rather limited. For all you Paradigm owners out there, would the 100's provide significant sonic improvements over the 60's for HT use, or do they sound like overkill for what I plan to use them for? And for those saying to audition them first, my situation is that I can get a pair of used 60 v3s for a pretty good price, but I have to act VERY soon. Help is needed, and fast.....

I'm in the same situation - trying to decide between 60's and 100's so I hope you get a response. In my case I have settled on a Denon 4306 which is 7x130 Watts so that is also a factor for me.

I'm in the same situation - trying to decide between 60's and 100's so I hope you get a response. In my case I have settled on a Denon 4306 which is 7x130 Watts so that is also a factor for me.


Intercept, thanks for reminding me about another question I had...how efficient are the 60's and 100's? I was originally going to pick up a Pio 74txvi (already demoed in-home) and be done with it, but I then demoed a HK635 and found the extra headroom it provided a new requirement. As such, I've been looking to either go Pio/external amp, or complete separates (possibly an Outlaw combo). However, I don't know what wattage amp I should get. I've been leaning towards a 7500 (200x5), but money is a factor so I'm also looking at the 7125 (125x5). Would I notice a significant difference by powering the 60's or 100's with a 7500 vs. a 7125?

Hi,

I'm looking to get a pair of Studio 60's or 100's in the near future, but am still debating over which ones to get. It seems that the people who purchase 100's are also 2-ch music listeners. As for me, I'm a HT guy (probably 90-95% of the time). I should also note that my viewing room is small (10 x 14 x 12, I know) and my placement options are rather limited. For all you Paradigm owners out there, would the 100's provide significant sonic improvements over the 60's for HT use, or do they sound like overkill for what I plan to use them for? And for those saying to audition them first, my situation is that I can get a pair of used 60 v3s for a pretty good price, but I have to act VERY soon. Help is needed, and fast.....

The 100's would be overkill in a room that size, unless you plan to use them to listen to music without a sub. The only significant advantage of the 100's over the 60's is the overall loudness capability and bass extension. If the two models were crossed over at 80Hz to a sub, you would be hard pressed to hear a difference except at very high volumes.

Intercept, thanks for reminding me about another question I had...how efficient are the 60's and 100's? I was originally going to pick up a Pio 74txvi (already demoed in-home) and be done with it, but I then demoed a HK635 and found the extra headroom it provided a new requirement. As such, I've been looking to either go Pio/external amp, or complete separates (possibly an Outlaw combo). However, I don't know what wattage amp I should get. I've been leaning towards a 7500 (200x5), but money is a factor so I'm also looking at the 7125 (125x5). Would I notice a significant difference by powering the 60's or 100's with a 7500 vs. a 7125?


The difference between a 125 watt amp, and a 200 watt amp is less than 3db of headroom. Considering your room is on the smallish side (under 2000 cubic feet), 125 watts should be plenty. Then again, if you have the money, the extra power never hurts as it means the amp doesn't have to work as hard to reach the same levels. To answer you question more directly, the 60's and the 100's have a sensitivity rating of 88 dB for 1 watt of power. Roughly speaking, with a 125 watt amp you will be able to reach a peak of 105 - 108 dB with just the front three speakers, if we assume you are sitting 9 feet away. With a 200 watt amp those figures increase to roughly 107 - 110 dB. I can explain the math if you like.

Cheers.

Hi,

I'm looking to get a pair of Studio 60's or 100's in the near future, but am still debating over which ones to get. It seems that the people who purchase 100's are also 2-ch music listeners. As for me, I'm a HT guy (probably 90-95% of the time). I should also note that my viewing room is small (10 x 14 x 12, I know) and my placement options are rather limited. For all you Paradigm owners out there, would the 100's provide significant sonic improvements over the 60's for HT use, or do they sound like overkill for what I plan to use them for? And for those saying to audition them first, my situation is that I can get a pair of used 60 v3s for a pretty good price, but I have to act VERY soon. Help is needed, and fast.....


Just had the same dilemna few months ago and the guys in this forum really helped out.
In the end after much debate and considering my room size is bigger than yours (20 x 16 x 9.5) I went with the Studio 60s and couldnt be happier. In my room powered with the Bryston 150watter 3bsst, the studio 60s are really loud.
I also use mine for HT use along with the CC570 and couldnt be happier!
For two channel music, i get very decent bass. The placement of these speakers are not that difficult either. A few adjustments here and there did the trick!
I think if you cross the crossover at 80hz, it would be difficult to tell between this and the 100s unless played really loud.

With my 60s and cc570, and a sub, i can hit 105 db on peaks with no problem. But most of the time, I'm only at 80 to 88 db because the cc570 is very clear with the dialogue!!

good luck with your decision!!

OK, so since it sounds like many people are saying they chose the 60's due to the price difference, if I could get a pair of 100's for just a little bit more money than 60's (around $350), would you still get the 60's over the 100's? Or am I wrong and is the choice of the 60's over the 100's based upon my room size and/or limited placement options?

OK, so since it sounds like many people are saying they chose the 60's due to the price difference, if I could get a pair of 100's for just a little bit more money than 60's (around $350), would you still get the 60's over the 100's? Or am I wrong and is the choice of the 60's over the 100's based upon my room size and/or limited placement options?

At this point all the "on paper" reasons have been presented and you really just need to get both speakers in your house and listen for yourself. If you can't do an in-home audition, it is safer to go with the 60's (based on the size of your room and "limited placement options.)

Good luck!

OK, so since it sounds like many people are saying they chose the 60's due to the price difference, if I could get a pair of 100's for just a little bit more money than 60's (around $350), would you still get the 60's over the 100's? Or am I wrong and is the choice of the 60's over the 100's based upon my room size and/or limited placement options?


Again, its based on the room size you got.
I had a budget of the 100s but after evaluating and getting suggestions with the guys in this forum, the 60s became a no brainer.
I would go for the 100s if I had the bigger room and bigger amp. You have to consider also that the 100s requires more juice than the 60s.

Another consideration is for you to audition both. That would be the best to see if the 100s would fit in your room.

[QUOTE=hifisponge]... it is safer to go with the 60's (based on the size of your room and "limited placement options.)QUOTE]

Thanks for all the info so far, guys.

However, I'm a bit curious as to what hifisponge meant by "safer to go with the 60's." Does that mean you think the 100's could potentially sound worse than the 60's if set up improperly?

Also, I put in a call to Paradigm today and asked a few questions. The guy I spoke to mentioned to me that the midrange of the 100's would be considerably cleaner and more detailed than the 60's because they use different drivers. Can anyone confirm this? I was under the impression that the only difference between the 60's and 100's was the extra woofers on the 100's.

It's been my experience that the mid-range is cleaner and more detailed in the 100s, but I'm not sure whether I'd consider it "considerable". It's noticeable, but I'm not sure whether the cost difference is worth it. A $350 difference IMO would be worth it, especially if you think you'll be moving them to a larger room and/or will get a dedicated amplifier for them.

[QUOTE=hifisponge]... it is safer to go with the 60's (based on the size of your room and "limited placement options.)QUOTE]

Thanks for all the info so far, guys.

However, I'm a bit curious as to what hifisponge meant by "safer to go with the 60's." Does that mean you think the 100's could potentially sound worse than the 60's if set up improperly?

Also, I put in a call to Paradigm today and asked a few questions. The guy I spoke to mentioned to me that the midrange of the 100's would be considerably cleaner and more detailed than the 60's because they use different drivers. Can anyone confirm this? I was under the impression that the only difference between the 60's and 100's was the extra woofers on the 100's.

Yes, you could end up with bass bloat or lumpy bass with the 100's if not set-up properly. Not only because the 100's have more bass drivers, but because they are all varying heights from the floor. For instance, if you position the speaker so that the distance from a bass driver to the floor is equal to the distance of that same driver to ANY of the walls, you will end up with a hump (or a notch) in the bass response. Because the 60's only have two bass drivers, your odds are better that you can position them to get even response. I know this from experience, as I used to own the Paradigm Signature S8's (essentially a higher-end version of the 100) and had to sell them to get the S4's. In my room, due to limited placement options, I just couldn't get smooth bass response from the S8's.

Yes, the 100's have a slightly cleaner midrange because the 100's actually use a dedicated midrange driver (it doesn't reproduce any of the bass frequencies). The 60's use a "mid/woofer" which is required to play some upper bass frequencies. The midrange and mid/woof look the same from the outside, but the mid in the 100's is in a self-contained enclosure and has a higher crossover.

This isn't to say that the 100's won't work for you in your room, only words of caution not to just go with the bigger more expensive speaker. In your setting it may not sound as good as the smaller, less expensive 60's.

I have a local Paradigm dealer who has two pair of Studio 60's in stock and is willing to set them up for a demo. He will only quote list price on the phone but is willing to deal at the store.

Question for you Paradigm vets: What is a reasonable expectation for a discount % against the nominal list price?

TIA

IP

I have a local Paradigm dealer who has two pair of Studio 60's in stock and is willing to set them up for a demo. He will only quote list price on the phone but is willing to deal at the store.

Question for you Paradigm vets: What is a reasonable expectation for a discount % against the nominal list price?

TIA

IP

Expect 5-10%, with 15-20% being the absolute best you can do.

Yes, you could end up with bass bloat or lumpy bass with the 100's if not set-up properly. Not only because the 100's have more bass drivers, but because they are all varying heights from the floor. For instance, if you position the speaker so that the distance from a bass driver to the floor is equal to the distance of that same driver to ANY of the walls, you will end up with a hump (or a notch) in the bass response. Because the 60's only have two bass drivers, your odds are better that you can position them to get even response. I know this from experience, as I used to own the Paradigm Signature S8's (essentially a higher-end version of the 100) and had to sell them to get the S4's. In my room, due to limited placement options, I just couldn't get smooth bass response from the S8's.
Interesting, I would think the opposite is true. Since there are more bass drivers, they will most likely fill-in the modes that are created by the other drivers based on their location. Similar to the huge advantage of using two subs instead of one, where you put the subs in different locations relative to the modes in the room.

Interesting, I would think the opposite is true. Since there are more bass drivers, they will most likely fill-in the modes that are created by the other drivers based on their location. Similar to the huge advantage of using two subs instead of one, where you put the subs in different locations relative to the modes in the room.

You have equal chances to make the in-room response worse with two subs as you do to to make it better. Place the second sub in the wrong location and you'll end up either causing a hump or a null that wasn't there with just the one sub. If you are lucky (or if you have the proper measuring equipment) you can get the two subs to compliment one another. Frankly, I wouldn't recommend using two subs UNLESS you have access to an RTA.

As I said in an earlier post, I traded my S8's for the (two-driver) S4's because I couldn't get smooth bass response in my room. I had limited placement options, so what happened in my situation was the 2nd driver up from the bottom was the same distance to the floor, the side wall and the back wall. What I ended up with was a hump between 80 and 100Hz. When I moved the speaker out a foot both directions, the problem went away. Unfortunately, it was impractical to keep them there.

Cheers.

I had limited placement options, so what happened in my situation was the 2nd driver up from the bottom was the same distance to the floor, the side wall and the back wall. What I ended up with was a hump between 80 and 100Hz. When I moved the speaker out a foot both directions, the problem went away. Unfortunately, it was impractical to keep them there.

Cheers.

I am curious as to how the distance from the back wall relative to the driver height plays a role with speaker acoustics. I can understand this rationale if the speakers are bi-polar (my current fronts are Mirage OM-10 omni-polars, so moving them away from the back wall is vital), but since the Paradigms are direct-radiating speakers, I wouldn't think that the distance from the back wall wouldn't make any difference.

I have a pair of Monitor 3's, Titans, a CC-350 center and PS-1000 sub system I've been using since around 1998. I'm moving into a much larger family room (20'X18'X12') and am looking to upgrade in the $3000 (street price) range. I am willing to hold off on a subwoofer until a later date. I want to stay with Paradigms. Any suggestions as to what line/models to start with ? I'll be upgrading electronics also so powering the new system is not an issue. I use it approx. 80% HT, 20% music.

Also, should I expect any desire for my old system in the used market ?

Thank You

Good on ya, Jim!

I bought my system around '98, too.. I got reference 450 ADP's and center channel, and a PW-2200 sub.. I stupidly held off on the mains, thinking I could get them later and that my fronts from my old system would do for now (Sound Dynamic towers)..

Tha was 7 years ago..

Then came kids, then came the new car, the mattress, the vacume cleaner, the RRSP's.......

:(

But I digress..

The Studio Line is a good way to go..

Studio 60's, if you have a sub.. That's what I'll be getting (FINALLY!!!)

I can't see as your old components would net you much..

I would maybe use them somewhere else in your house where you listen to music/TV..

I am curious as to how the distance from the back wall relative to the driver height plays a role with speaker acoustics. I can understand this rationale if the speakers are bi-polar (my current fronts are Mirage OM-10 omni-polars, so moving them away from the back wall is vital), but since the Paradigms are direct-radiating speakers, I wouldn't think that the distance from the back wall wouldn't make any difference.

It gets a bit complicated, but simply put, bass wavelengths are long enough that they are essentially omnidirectional. For example, an 100Hz note has a wavelength of roughly 11 feet. And that 100Hz note doesn't just come out of the speaker cone in a straight line. It wraps around the speaker to some extent. This is why you can stick a sub just about anywhere in a room and not be able to tell its location. (Of course this depends on the quality of the sub and the cross-over setting, the generalization is purely for the sake of an example.)

Of course, as frequencies increase and wavelengths become shorter, the sound becomes more directional. This is why people angle L/R speakers toward the listener to focus the highest frequencies in at the listeners ears.

Try it for yourself. Shove a full range direct radiating speaker right next to the back wall (run them full range) and you are sure to hear the bass output increase. Even better, stick any direct radiating speaker (even a bookshelf model) in a corner and tell me you don't hear a difference in the bass output (not that a corner is a good place for main speaker, though it can be good for sub woofers).

Here's a link that may help you understand a bit more about the relationship between bass frequencies and boundary reinforcement. The subject matter is about subwoofer placement, but the principles apply to any driver that reproduces bass.

http://www.sonicdesign.se/subplace.html

I am considering thease speakers for music listening and also home theather. I just found out though that they are not video shielded
Anybody using thease towers for video? Any problems? I have a Sony 50 " LCD RPTV

Good on ya, Jim!

I bought my system around '98, too.. I got reference 450 ADP's and center channel, and a PW-2200 sub.. I stupidly held off on the mains, thinking I could get them later and that my fronts from my old system would do for now (Sound Dynamic towers)..

Tha was 7 years ago..

Then came kids, then came the new car, the mattress, the vacume cleaner, the RRSP's.......

:(

But I digress..

The Studio Line is a good way to go..

Studio 60's, if you have a sub.. That's what I'll be getting (FINALLY!!!)

I can't see as your old components would net you much..

I would maybe use them somewhere else in your house where you listen to music/TV..



Thats pretty funny - many parallels to my situation ! After our 4 th child this past April, I'm trying to convince my wife its time for a technology update - the same argument I used after our 3rd in '98. I almost feel guilty but I havn't won yet.....

I havn't won yet.....

Just do what I am doing..

Building my wife a new house..

All I want in the whole house is a decent HT room.. She can have the rest..

The bedroom will be communal territory, God willing..

I am looking at purchasing a 5.1 system for my tv (sony 55"). I really like the sound of the minis but it will take me forever to piece together a system with them, money-wise. If I will be using them 100% for movies/hd-tv am I wasting or mis-spending my money? Would I be better served by the cinema series which I can put together much sooner?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Derek

I am considering thease speakers for music listening and also home theather. I just found out though that they are not video shielded
Anybody using thease towers for video? Any problems? I have a Sony 50 " LCD RPTV

Shielding is only necessary for CRT monitors and will have no effect on your LCD.

Robert

I am in the process of building a new HT in the basement

Equipment will be;

Denon 3805 7.1 Receiver
Denon 2910 DVD/SACD
61" Samsung DLP TV
Comcast (motorola 6412 DVR)
Sony CD Changer



I have on order for the new HT

Monitor 40 mains
CC-470
Seismic 10 sub
sa-25 in wall surrounds

My dilema is whether to go 5.1 or 7.1 in the basement. If I go 5.1 I can bi-amp the 40s from the Denon.

I am going to wire for 7.1, but am thinking that I would need a seperate amp to drive the 40s if I do go 7.1 or will the Denon handle the whole 7.1 system? Another pair of SA-25s for the rear surround? ( I need to go in-wall (or ceiling) for WAF ) or can I get away with lesser rear surround speakers.

I am in the process of building a new HT in the basement

Equipment will be;

Denon 3805 7.1 Receiver
Denon 2910 DVD/SACD
61" Samsung DLP TV
Comcast (motorola 6412 DVR)
Sony CD Changer



I have on order for the new HT

Monitor 40 mains
CC-470
Seismic 10 sub
sa-25 in wall surrounds

My dilema is whether to go 5.1 or 7.1 in the basement. If I go 5.1 I can bi-amp the 40s from the Denon.

I am going to wire for 7.1, but am thinking that I would need a seperate amp to drive the 40s if I do go 7.1 or will the Denon handle the whole 7.1 system? Another pair of SA-25s for the rear surround? ( I need to go in-wall (or ceiling) for WAF ) or can I get away with lesser rear surround speakers.

How big is the room?

Just my opinion but I would not make my decision based on the ability to "bi-amp" or not. I would make it based on room size. Rather than the SA-25s you may want a larger sub, again depending on room size.

Room is long and narrow 25*12*7 Sitting area about mid way between front and back wall.

where in houston are close to houston can you demo 100v3

Room is long and narrow 25*12*7 Sitting area about mid way between front and back wall.

OK. At about 2100 cu ft the 10 inch sub should be ok. Your seating is going to be 12' from the back wall and it sounds like you're going to do in walls. I'd go with a 7.1 set up.

Just wondering how the ADP470s wall mount? The Paradigm website does not show a rear view. My gut tells me that there are just key-holes in the back for mounting. How far down from the top would you say are the mounting holes?

I needed to know so I re-enforce the wall properly (in the proper place) so the screws have something solid to screw into.

Thanks!

Hi there,

Iamb in need of some advise. Iamb currently running monitors 5'sa with a mirage sub , mirage rears, and no center. This weekend my dealer has given me a cc 470 to test drive. To complicate things Iamb strongly considering upgrading the 5'sa to the studio 60'sa va3 ( heard their great speakers) but I'm sure if my current budget can handle all 3 in one shot. So.... does anyone have any advise on where my properties should lie. My thinking is I've lasted 3 long years now without a center channel and actually have been quite happy with the sound, so do I really need to invest in one now?

Cheers!!
Yaz

sorry for the Iambs...

Just wondering how the ADP470s wall mount? The Paradigm website does not show a rear view. My gut tells me that there are just key-holes in the back for mounting. How far down from the top would you say are the mounting holes?

I needed to know so I re-enforce the wall properly (in the proper place) so the screws have something solid to screw into.

Thanks!

The mount is a little difficult to explain but it kind of looks like two interlocking "U" shaped metal brackets. One "U" is screwed to the wall right side up and the other to the back of the speaker upside down. You then slide the speaker down onto the wall bracket.

You don't need to reinforce the wall to hold them, just use drywall anchors that are rated to hold the weight of the speaker. I use the large self-screwing type "EZ Ancor" brand dry wall anchors rated for 50 lbs each. You can get them at Home Depot or what have you.

Cheers,

- Tim

I was at the Paradigm web site and saw that they have a new subwoofer, the Ultra Cube 10. It seems to have the same cone as my PW 2100 and I was hoping some has heard both subs and might offer a comparison.

Picked up my new 5.1 system yesterday.

Studio 40 mains
CC-470
Seismic 10 sub
sa-25 in wall surrounds

Temporarily set up in the living room with front 3.1 set up so far. Surrounds will have to wait until my basement HT is completed. Listened to wide variety of music from classical to nora jones to led zep. Watched "Red Eye" and "The Interperter" Very happy with purchase.

Hi there,

Iamb in need of some advise. Iamb currently running monitors 5'sa with a mirage sub , mirage rears, and no center. This weekend my dealer has given me a cc 470 to test drive. To complicate things Iamb strongly considering upgrading the 5'sa to the studio 60'sa va3 ( heard their great speakers) but I'm sure if my current budget can handle all 3 in one shot. So.... does anyone have any advise on where my properties should lie. My thinking is I've lasted 3 long years now without a center channel and actually have been quite happy with the sound, so do I really need to invest in one now?

Cheers!!
Yaz

Now that you had the opportunity to test drive the 470 for the weekend. What are you impressions? If you like what you heard then it's time to invest in one now. If you can continue to live without it then move on to something else.

I was wondering if anyone compared the Studio 20's and 470 center with the B&W 600 SR3's and the LCR60 SR3 ? Also, I currently have the ASW 675 sub.

I also hear good things about the Seismic 12 sub. Any info on all these questions would be appreciated.

PS. I will be powering the system through a yet to be determined processor, through an Anthem MCA50. I mostly use it for home theater.

I was wondering if anyone compared the Studio 20's and 470 center with the B&W 600 SR3's and the LCR60 SR3 ? Also, I currently have the ASW 675 sub.

I also hear good things about the Seismic 12 sub. Any info on all these questions would be appreciated.

PS. I will be powering the system through a yet to be determined processor, through an Anthem MCA50. I mostly use it for home theater.

If you already have a functional home theater and space is not a limiting factor, I'd skip the 20s and wait until I saved up enough for the 60s or 100s to take advantage of the MCA50. Add the 570 to the mix and you're rolling.

So John, is it fair to say there would be no significant difference between the B&W's and the Paradigm's (as I listed them) ?

So John, is it fair to say there would be no significant difference between the B&W's and the Paradigm's (as I listed them) ?

No it would not be fair to say as I have not listened to them in an A/B comparison. I was just commenting on the fact that you have a great amp and it can really flex its muscles with a larger speaker.

gotcha.

Thanks

The mount is a little difficult to explain but it kind of looks like two interlocking "U" shaped metal brackets. One "U" is screwed to the wall right side up and the other to the back of the speaker upside down. You then slide the speaker down onto the wall bracket.

You don't need to reinforce the wall to hold them, just use drywall anchors that are rated to hold the weight of the speaker. I use the large self-screwing type "EZ Ancor" brand dry wall anchors rated for 50 lbs each. You can get them at Home Depot or what have you.

Cheers,

- Tim
Tim,

Thanks for the reply. I understand your explanation perfectly :)

How wide and tall is the "U" bracket? Also, once connected together, how far off the wall would you say the speaker sits -- maybe 1/4"?

John GZ28... No complaints with the 470 but I think I somehow expected more of an enhanced sound, which wasn't the case. I'll probably end up returning the 470 and upgrade to 60's v3 for now anyway. Does anyone other there have first hand knowledge going from monitor 5's to studio 60's? I'm assuming there should be a noticeable improvement going from the monitor series to the studio.

Thanks
Yaz

Tim,

Thanks for the reply. I understand your explanation perfectly :)

How wide and tall is the "U" bracket? Also, once connected together, how far off the wall would you say the speaker sits -- maybe 1/4"?

The bracket is probably 2 X 2 inches and yes, about 1/4" deep.

I am considering thease speakers for music listening and also home theather. I just found out though that they are not video shielded
Anybody using thease towers for video? Any problems? I have a Sony 50 " LCD RPTV


Local dealer told me this is only a problem with regular "tube type" tvs. It does not affect LCD, DLP, etc.

I'm new here, is this Paradigm thread still going, if so where do I get the latest entries. Well I'm here, is there really a lot of difference between studio 60s v2 VS 60s v3? And, what would be better 60s v3 fronts with surrounds being s20v2 or s60v2? Or would 60s v2 be overkill for the surrounds? And finally if I got an amp later any suggestions on wpc, dual or multi, and brand? I realize a lot of this is subjective but we all have opinions.

The bracket is probably 2 X 2 inches and yes, about 1/4" deep.
Thanks Tim

I am in the process of building a new HT in the basement

Equipment will be;

Denon 3805 7.1 Receiver
Denon 2910 DVD/SACD
61" Samsung DLP TV
Comcast (motorola 6412 DVR)
Sony CD Changer



I have on order for the new HT

Monitor 40 mains
CC-470
Seismic 10 sub
sa-25 in wall surrounds

My dilema is whether to go 5.1 or 7.1 in the basement. If I go 5.1 I can bi-amp the 40s from the Denon.

I am going to wire for 7.1, but am thinking that I would need a seperate amp to drive the 40s if I do go 7.1 or will the Denon handle the whole 7.1 system? Another pair of SA-25s for the rear surround? ( I need to go in-wall (or ceiling) for WAF ) or can I get away with lesser rear surround speakers.
In case you haven't decided yet, I'd go 7.1 without a doubt. The addition of two speakers will make such a tremendous difference compared with biamping (especially in an HT environment) it's a no-contest in my opinion.

Your Denon will be just fine for the 40s; consider that your other surround speakers will require less power, thus lightening up the load to allow a bit more headroom for the fronts.

Where can you get prices of Paradigm speakers??

Where can you get prices of Paradigm speakers??

Search this thread. The link has been posted several times.

Can anyone expand on the differences between the Studio 60 v2 and v3s? I have the chance to pick up some V2s but want to know a bit more before I jump. Also, what would be a good sub and center to match with them for HT?

Obviously I meant studio 40s in my post above. If I do go 7.1 any recommendations for rears? Do I need to match up with reference line or given lesser use of rears, perhaps drop down a level? Anyone tried ams-350?

Can anyone expand on the differences between the Studio 60 v2 and v3s? I have the chance to pick up some V2s but want to know a bit more before I jump. Also, what would be a good sub and center to match with them for HT?
Similar to Sendero BUT I'm also interested in the difference between the price of the S60v3 now and when the s60 v2 was selling . I heard the price for the v3 went sky high. I know this is subjective but are they worth the extra cost for v3 from those of you who have heard both. So what would a fair price be for v2 in US or Cdn $$s.

Heres a link for some prices,

http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.htm
:D